UFO UpDates
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   Oct

                          UFO UpDates Mailing List
                                  Oct 2002

  Oct 1:

   Re: Symbols - Anthony - Gary Anthony [36]
   UFOs Are Not Getting Enough Azeri Respect - Stig Agermose [55]
   Re: Symbols - Goldstein - Josh Goldstein [33]
   ARAS & Alien Symbols - Josh Goldstein [104]
   Alien Abductors Just Being Friendly - Stig Agermose [60]
   Report On The 39th Annual National UFO Conference - Stig Agermose [51]
   Archive Top 20 'Reads' 09-02 - UFO UpDates - Toronto [62]
   UFOs Debated At Wisconsin Conference - Stig Agermose [83]
   Official Peruvian UFO Investigator: "ET Craft Real" - Stig Agermose
   [108]
   Re: Cincinnati Enquirer on UFO Conference - - Bruce Maccabee [23]
   Re: Symbols - Velez - John Velez [216]
   Abductee Fear - Dave Morton [51]
   Re: Alien Abductors Just Being Friendly - Meiners - Jean Meiners [32]
   Re: Symbols - Hall - Richard Hall [40]
   Re: Symbols - Velez - John Velez [108]
   C.A. Honey & Alien Structures On The Moon - Nick Balaskas [33]
   Re: Symbols - Speiser - Jim Speiser [49]
   Re: C.A. Honey & Alien Structures On The Moon - - Jim Speiser [10]
   Re: Symbols - Hall - Richard Hall [95]
   Re: Abductee Fear - Meiners - Jean Meiners [16]
   Re: Symbols - Straight - Brian Straight [18]
   Re: C.A. Honey & Alien Structures On The Moon - - Jerome Clark [19]
   Re: Abductee Fear - Velez - John Velez [28]
   Swann, Maccabee, Jacobs, & Others To Speak - George Hansen [14]
   'X' Marks The Mysterious Planet - UFO UpDates - Toronto [87]

  Oct 2:

   Re: Mexico City Aug. 6, 1997 Stabilized Video - - Tom King [277]
   Re: C.A. Honey & Alien Structures On The Moon - - Nick Balaskas [40]
   Re: Symbols - Goldstein - Josh Goldstein [32]
   The Psyche - Josh Goldstein [12]
   Re: Abductee Fear - Acres - David Acres [44]
   Re: Symbols - Speiser - Jim Speiser [52]
   Possible Outage Thursday - Larry Hatch [40]
   Re: 'X' Marks The Mysterious Planet - Speiser - Jim Speiser [25]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 40 - John Hayes [542]
   Re: Symbols - Anthony - Gary Anthony [46]
   Re: Symbols - Anthony - Gary Anthony [167]
   Re: Symbols - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [30]
   Re: Symbols - Randle - Kevin Randle [43]
   Filer's Files #40 - 2002 - George A. Filer [510]
   Secrecy News -- 10/02/02 - Steven Aftergood [152]
   Re: C.A. Honey & Alien Structures On The Moon - - Jerome Clark [38]
   Re: Falsified and Fabricated Data - Warren - Frank Warren [33]
   Re: Alien Abductors Just Being Friendly - Jones - Steve Jones [90]
   Re: C.A. Honey & Alien Structures On The Moon - - Richard Hall [56]
   Re: Symbols - Hall - Richard Hall [51]
   Re: Symbols - Randle - Kevin Randle [40]
   Re: Symbols - Warren - Frank Warren [20]
   Re: Abductee Fear - Velez - John Velez [46]
   Re: Symbols - Velez - John [64]
   Re: 'X' Marks The Mysterious Planet - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [69]
   Re: Symbols - Sandow - Greg Sandow [68]
   Re: Symbols - Maltby - Carol Maltby [130]

  Oct 3:

   Re: Symbols - Anthony - Gary Anthony [110]
   Disclosure 2003 Campaign Update - October 2 - Stephen Bassett [43]
   Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Kelly Peterborough [12]
   Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Gutierez - Gregory Gutierez [55]
   Re: Symbols - Goldstein - Josh Goldstein [52]
   Kanazawa - Jim Speiser [12]
   Re: Symbols - Speiser - Jim Speiser [26]
   Re: Mexico City Aug. 6, 1997 Stabilized Video - - Bruce Maccabee [177]
   Re: 'X' Marks The Mysterious Planet - Gates - Robert Gates [29]
   EW: SETI Announces Hard/Software Upgrade - Kurt Jonach - The Electric
   Warrior [73]
   Re: Symbols - Anthony - Gary Anthony [67]
   Re: Kanazawa - Erkmen - Erol Erkmen [6]
   Re: Kanazawa - Ballester Olmos - Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos [11]
   Re: Falsified and Fabricated Data - Randle - Kevin Randle [68]
   Re: Symbols - Jones - Steve Jones [60]
   Re: Symbols - Hebert - Amy Hebert [56]
   Re: Symbols - Velez - John Velez [87]
   Re: Kanazawa - Jones - Sean Jones [38]
   Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Gildas Bourdais [62]
   Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Gonzalez Manso - Luis R. Gonzalez Manso [50]
   Houston, British Columbia Sighting 10-03-02 - Brian Vike - HUFOBCC [36]
   Re: Kanazawa - Speiser - Jim Speiser [25]
   Nuclear Physicist To Speak On UFOs - UFO UpDates - Toronto [33]
   Efforts Put Aztec On The Map - UFO UpDates - Toronto [55]
   'Muhnochwa' Scare Spreads To Madhya Pradesh - UFO UpDates - Toronto
   [36]
   Re: Efforts Put Aztec On The Map - Sandow - Greg Sandow [22]
   Re: Kanazawa - Erkmen - Eeol Erkmen [9]
   Re: Kanazawa - Jones - Sean Jones [28]
   Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Rimmer - John Rimmer [16]

  Oct 4:

   Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Gutierez - Gregory Gutierez [115]
   Re: Kanazawa - Speiser - Jim Speiser [13]
   Re: Kanazawa - Speiser - Jim Speiser [17]
   Rudiak vs. Moore - Bruce Hutchinson [130]
   Re: 'Muhnochwa' Scare Spreads To Madhya Pradesh - Don Ledger [22]
   Large Object Falls In Siberia - Kelly Peterborough [20]
   Re: Nuclear Physicist To Speak On UFOs - Gates - Robert Gates [31]
   Re: Efforts Put Aztec On The Map - Gates - Robert Gates [25]
   Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Hatch - Larry Hatch [68]
   To Readers At OISE - UFO UpDates - Toronto [7]
   Six Witnesses Come Forward Reporting To HBCC UFO - Brian Vike [46]
   Re: Efforts Put Aztec On The Map - Hatch - Larry Hatch [42]
   Re: Falsified and Fabricated Data - Hatch - Larry Hatch [68]
   Italian UFO Newsflash No. 368 - Edoardo Russo [142]
   New 'In Search Of' Series - Loren Coleman [27]
   Re: Kanazawa - Ballester Olmos - Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos [20]
   'It Came from Outer Space' - Bill Hamilton [45]
   Secrecy News -- 10/04/02 - Steven Aftergood [134]
   Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Gutierez - Gregory Gutierez [46]
   White Sands Proof - Bruce Maccabee [12]
   Re: Falsified and Fabricated Data - Hatch - Larry Hatch [68]
   Re: Kanazawa - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [14]
   Re: Kanazawa - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [36]
   Re: Efforts Put Aztec On The Map - Sandow - Greg Sandow [21]
   Re: Symbols - Speiser - Jim Speiser [53]
   Re: New 'In Search Of' Series - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [14]
   Re: Kanazawa - Yturria - Santiago Yturria [22]
   Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Gonzalez Manso - Luis R. Gonzalez Manso [89]
   Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Peterborough - Kelly Peterborough [70]
   Re: Large Object Falls In Siberia - Tonnies - Mac Tonnies [13]
   Re: Kanazawa - Hall - Richard Hall [24]
   Re: New 'In Search Of' Series - Coleman - Loren Coleman [31]

  Oct 5:

   'Fox in Focus! UFOs: Proof of Life?' - UFO UpDates - Toronto [25]
   Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Gutierez - Gregory Gutierez [24]
   Re: Rudiak vs. Moore - Fleming - Lan Fleming [56]
   Mystery Death Spawns Odd Tales - Kelly Peterborough [111]
   134 UFO Books For Sale - Loren Coleman [11]
   Re: Kanazawa - Speiser - Jim Speiser [22]
   Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Hatch - Larry Hatch [89]
   Re: Large Object Falls In Siberia - Hatch - Larry Hatch [32]
   Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Hatch - Larry Hatch [100]
   Re: Kanazawa - Speiser - Jim Speiser [30]
   Cynthia Hind's Research Files? - Roy Hale [22]
   Re: Kanazawa - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [20]
   Re: Kanazawa - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [47]
   Greenwood's Union Catalog Of Serial UFO Articles - Jan Aldrich [19]
   Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Gutierez - Gregory Gutierez [72]
   Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Peterborough - Kelly Peterborough [127]
   Re: 'Fox in Focus! UFOs: Proof of Life?' - Ledger - Don Ledger [26]
   Re: Mystery Death Spawns Odd Tales - Ledger - Don Ledger [24]
   Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Gutierez - Gregory Gutierez [44]
   'Strange Creations' By Donna Kossy - Mac Tonnies [17]

  Oct 6:

   Letter-to-Editor Roswell Daily Record - Larry W. Bryant [63]
   British Columbia Sighting - 08-13-02 - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [20]
   British Columbia Sighting - 08-03-02 - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [35]
   British Columbia Sighting - 07-29-02 - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [110]
   Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Russo - Edoardo Russo [64]
   Re: Pioneer Spacecraft & Space 0ddity - Jones - Sean Jones [71]
   Dozens Saw UFO Land In Bromley, London In 1955 - - Sean Jones [77]
   Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Hatch - Larry Hatch [26]
   Re: 'Fox in Focus! UFOs: Proof of Life?' - Caput - Scott Caput [36]

  Oct 7:

   French View Of Kelly Hopkinsville Case - Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos
   [6]
   Metal Orbs & Crop Circles in US? - Patricia Beatty [40]
   Are We Really Ready For Disclosure? - Nick Balaskas [86]
   Bugbear Virus Alert! - Larry Hatch [51]
   Re: Rudiak vs. Moore - Hutchinson - Bruce Hutchinson [30]
   CCCRN News: BC, Saskatchewan & Ontario Formations - Paul Anderson [71]
   The Hunt For Anti-Gravity Technology - Stig Agermose [508]
   Mysterious 'Craft' Lands Near School - Stig Agermose [24]
   Raelians Produce 3 Viable Pregnancies - Stig Agermose [50]
   UFO Picture Causes Controversy In UK - Stig Agermose [32]
   Discovery Channel Airs Avrocar Documentary - Stig Agermose [32]
   Winnipeg Couple Sees Boomerang-Shaped UFO - Stig Agermose [74]
   UK Family's 'Major' UFO Sighting - Stig Agermose [38]
   Vallee On Crop Circles - Dave Haith [166]
   New Billy Meier-Style Case - George Hansen [8]
   Re: Falsified and Fabricated Data - Warren - Frank Warren [20]
   Re: French View Of Kelly Hopkinsville Case - Hall - Richard Hall [17]
   UFO Seen Over Georgian Town - Stig Agermose [25]
   Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Gutierez - Gregory Gutierez [92]
   'Big Ball Of Fire' A Meteor - Stig Agermose [60]

  Oct 8:

   Heavenly Light Widens Eyes - Stig Agermose [58]
   Re: Metal Orbs & Crop Circles in US? - Hatch - Larry Hatch [57]
   Burning Object Streaks Over English Midlands - Stig Agermose [35]
   Boost For Life On Europa - Stig Agermose [70]
   Water On Mars A Few Million Years Ago? - Stig Agermose [56]
   Re: UFO Picture Causes Controversy In UK - Pope - Nick Pope [40]
   Proof We're Special Among Civilizations Of Cosmos? - Nick Balaskas [77]
   Re: New Billy Meier-Style Case - Hatch - Larry Hatch [12]
   New Classified UFO Documents Surface - Grant Cameron [162]
   Diamond-Shaped Object Over Calgary - UFO UpDates - Toronto [34]
   Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Le Chevalier - Remy Le Chevalier [20]
   Bob Pratt's Website Online - Chris Rutkowski [21]
   UFOs On Richard & Judy Ch.4 & Meridain Tonight [UK] - Chris Rolfe [6]
   Re: UFO Picture Causes Controversy In UK - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee
   [19]
   Re: UFOs On Richard & Judy Ch.4 & Meridain Tonight - Geoff Richardson
   [13]
   Re: Metal Orbs & Crop Circles in US? - Beatty - Patricia Beatty [55]
   Re: Are We Really Ready For Disclosure? - Velez - John Velez [79]
   Cocaine Blamed In Sees' Death - Kelly Peterborough [26]
   Re: Vallee On Crop Circles - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [313]
   Re: Are We Really Ready For Disclosure? - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [32]
   Re: New Billy Meier-Style Case - Woods - Michael Woods [15]
   Re: Vallee On Crop Circles - Hamilton - Bill Hamilton [111]

  Oct 9:

   NAS: Lie Detectors Can Be Fooled - Robert Gates [59]
   Re: UFOs On Richard & Judy Ch.4 & Meridian Tonight - Sean Jones [30]
   Re: 'Fox in Focus! UFOs: Proof of Life?' - Haith - Dave Haith [127]
   Re: Are We Really Ready For Disclosure? - Eleanor White [21]
   Re: Vallee On Crop Circles - Haith - Dave Haith [64]
   Re: UFOs On Richard & Judy Ch.4 & Meridain Tonight - Geoff Richardson
   [33]
   Latest From Rich Dolan - Richard Dolan [53]
   Math vs. Moore [was: Rudiak vs. Moore] - David Rudiak [372]
   Re: Vallee On Crop Circles - Roberts - Andy Roberts [14]
   Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Bourdais - Gildas Bourdais [107]
   Re: Are We Really Ready For Disclosure? - Clark - Jerome Clark [45]
   EMBLA 2002 - Hessdalen Optical & Ground Survey - Christoffer Walther
   [26]
   D.C. F-16 Scramble - Unfinished Business - Kenny Young [96]
   Re: Vallee On Crop Circles - Pope - Nick Pope [38]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 41 - John Hayes [579]
   Chupacabras Reappears Near Aguas Buenas Puerto Rico - Scott Corrales
   [50]
   The Argentine Susques Crash - Scott Corrales [22]
   Re: Vallee On Crop Circles - Hamilton - Bill Hamilton [20]
   Filer's Files #41 - 2002 - George A. Filer [526]

  Oct 10:

   Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Gonzalez Manso - Luis R. Gonzalez [27]
   Gleason [was: Are We Really Ready For Disclosure?] - Richard Hall [66]
   UFO Sightings Connected To Lakes? - Stig Agermose [92]
   EW: THEMIS Upgrades Cydonia Flame War - Kurt Jonach - The Electric
   Warrior [95]
   Russian Design For A Disc-Shaped Plane - Stig Agermose [15]
   Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair - Stig Agermose [30]
   Hollywood's Zane In Crop Circle Movie - Stig Agermose [20]
   Re: 'Fox in Focus! UFOs: Proof of Life?' - Caput - Scott Caput [13]
   Space Center Houston Review - Rebecca Keith [63]
   Re: Math vs. Moore - Gates - Robert Gates [36]
   Re: Gleason - Gates - Robert Gates [22]
   Re: UFOs On Richard & Judy Ch.4 & Meridian Tonight - Sean Jones [19]
   EW: Carlotto Finds Possible Ruins on Mars - Kurt Jonach - The Electric
   Warrior" [88]
   Einhorn Defense To Invoke Paranormal - Joel Carpenter [100]
   Re: Russian Design For A Disc-Shaped Plane - Hall - Richard Hall [24]
   Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair - - "Richard Hall" [40]
   Re: Gleason - Sandow - Greg Sandow [68]
   Crisis At CUFOS - Jerome Clark [57]
   Re: Gleason - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [21]
   Air Traffic Staff See 'Ghost Planes' - David Clarke [27]
   Secrecy News -- 10/10/02 - Steven Aftergood [168]
   Re: Chupacabras Reappears Near Aguas Buenas Puerto - Bruce Maccabee
   [32]
   Re: EMBLA 2002 - Hessdalen Optical & Ground Survey - Bruce Maccabee
   [99]
   Date Correction For Sci Fi - Richard Dolan [6]
   Jacques Vallee Discusses UFO Control System - Colm Kelleher - NIDS [52]
   Re: Crisis At CUFOS - Dabrowski - Andrew Dabrowski [21]
   Re: Crisis At CUFOS - Kerth - Linda Kerth [75]
   Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair' - Jan Aldrich [50]
   Angel Hair Links - Jan Aldrich [53]
   Jacques Vallee Discusses UFO Control System - Colm Kelleher - NIDS [52]

  Oct 11:

   Bruni's Bentwaters Bunker? - Stig Agermose [67]
   Re: Crisis At CUFOS - Gates - Robert Gates [78]
   Cornwall UFO Research Group's 6th Conference - Stig Agermose [15]
   Re: Gleason - Goldstein - Josh Goldstein [48]
   Bruni's Bentwaters Bunker? - Stig Agermose [67]
   Alien Hunters Take Screen Test - UFO UpDates - Toronto [84]
   Symbols [UMMO] - Gutierez - Gregory Gutierez [188]
   Re: Crisis At CUFOS - Bott - Murray Bott [31]
   Delayed Posts - UFO UpDates - Toronto [8]
   Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair - - Frank Warren [42]
   Re: EMBLA 2002 - Hessdalen Optical & Ground Survey - Christoffer
   Walther [46]
   'Rational' Christian Look At UFOs And ETs - Stig Agermose [78]
   Re: Crisis At CUFOS - Jones, Bill - William E Jones [127]
   Re: Crisis At CUFOS - Ballester Olmos - Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos
   [40]
   Re: Air Traffic Staff See 'Ghost Planes' - Jones, - Sean Jones [33]
   Re: Bruni's Bentwaters Bunker? - Bruni - Georgina Bruni [38]
   New Documentary: UFOs: The Australian Connection - Stig Agermose [61]
   Re: Gleason - Goldstein - Josh Goldstein [48]
   Re: Space Center Houston Review - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [56]
   Russian UFO Theory - Bruce Maccabee [34]
   Re: Jacques Vallee Discusses UFO Control System - - Jim Deardorff [16]

  Oct 10:

   Angel Hair Links - Jan Aldrich [53]

  Oct 11:

   Mysterious Ocean Lights & Underwater Aliens - Stig Agermose [68]
   Secrecy News - 10/11/02 - Steven Aftergood [121]
   Strong Evidence For Solar Systems Like Ours - Stig Agermose [148]
   Re: Angel Hair Links - Gehrman - Ed Gehrman [76]
   CCCRN News: Mission, BC #2 and Radville, SK - Paul Anderson [48]
   Re: Math vs. Moore - Lan Fleming [45]

  Oct 12:

   Strieber's Memory Fails In Hale-Bopp Tale - UFO UpDates - Toronto [111]

  Oct 11:

   Re: Crisis At CUFOS - Gates - Robert Gates [23]

  Oct 12:

   Re: Bruni's Bentwaters Bunker? - Gates - Robert Gates [34]

  Oct 11:

   New Documentary: UFOs: The Australian Connection - Stig Agermose [61]

  Oct 12:

   Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair' - Richard Hall [57]
   Re: Crisis At CUFOS - Speiser - Jim Speiser [68]
   3-Stage Antigravity Lifter Bears 20 Gram Load - Kurt Jonach - The
   Electric Warrior [99]
   Re: Jacques Vallee Discusses UFO Control System - - Jerome Clark [29]

  Oct 11:

   Re: Russian Design For A Disc-Shaped Plane - Ledger - Don Ledger [33]

  Oct 12:

   Enterprisemission Website Still Down - UFO UpDates - Toronto [18]

  Oct 10:

   Re: Crisis At CUFOS - Dabrowski - Andrew Dabrowski [21]

  Oct 12:

   Re: 'Rational' Christian Look At UFOs And ETs - - Josh Goldstein [113]
   New Zealand's 50th Anniversary In UFO Research - Murray Bott [112]
   Re: Mysterious Ocean Lights & Underwater Aliens - - Jean Meiners [22]
   NASA Contractor To Complete Anti-Gravity Device - Stig Agermose [43]
   Miniature Flying Saucer With Handlebars - Stig Agermose [61]
   NZ Herald On 50th Anniversary - Stig Agermose [53]

  Oct 10:

   Re: Crisis At CUFOS - Kerth - Linda Kerth [75]

  Oct 12:

   FOTOCAT Project News - Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos [50]
   Re: Bruni's Bentwaters Bunker? - Hatch - Larry Hatch [42]
   Re: Air Traffic Staff See 'Ghost Planes' - Clarke - David Clarke [25]
   Re: Crisis At CUFOS - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [59]
   Acidic Clouds Of Venus Could Harbour Life - Stig Agermose [68]
   Binary System Increases Probability Of - Stig Agermose [50]

  Oct 11:

   CI: New Face Image & New Mystery 120 Km South - Mac Tonnies [45]

  Oct 12:

   Re: Air Traffic Staff See 'Ghost Planes' - Jones - Sean Jones [40]
   Re: Jacques Vallee Discusses UFO Control System - - Jim Deardorff [43]
   Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Young - Bob Young [19]
   Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Gutierez - Gregory Gutierez [67]
   Jimmy Carter The Nobel Prize & Extraterrestrials - Grant Cameron [208]
   Boeing Frontiers Online - GT McCoy [6]

  Oct 10:

   Re: Crisis At CUFOS - Kerth - Linda Kerth [75]

  Oct 11:

   Re: Crisis At CUFOS - Bott - Murray Bott [31]
   Re: Russian Design For A Disc-Shaped Plane - Ledger - Don Ledger [33]
   A Strange Sight - UFO UpDates - Toronto [25]

  Oct 12:

   Tough Earth Bug May Be From Mars - Stig Agermose [56]

  Oct 11:

   Re: Angel Hair Links - Hebert - Amy Hebert [19]
   Re: Angel Hair Links - Hebert - Amy Hebert [19]

  Oct 10:

   Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair' - Jan Aldrich [50]

  Oct 11:

   Re: Russian Design For A Disc-Shaped Plane - Ledger - Don Ledger [33]
   Re: Crisis At CUFOS - Gates - Robert Gates [23]

  Oct 13:

   Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Hatch - Larry Hatch [33]
   Re: Jimmy Carter The Nobel Prize & - Bob Young [24]
   Re: Math vs. Moore - Young - Bob Young [23]
   Russians Wonder: Mummy Of ET Or Retarded Child? - Stig Agermose [60]
   Re: Air Traffic Staff See 'Ghost Planes' - Clarke - David Clarke [9]
   Re: Angel Hair Links - Gehrman - Ed Gehrman [29]
   Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair' - - Ed Gehrman [66]
   The Alien Jigsaw [Original and New] - Katharina Wilson [19]

  Oct 14:

   Disclosure2003 Campaign Update - Oct. 13, 2002 - Stephen Bassett [110]
   Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Bourdais - Gildas Bourdais [74]
   Re: Math vs. Moore - Hutchinson - Bruce Hutchinson [161]
   Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Richard Hall [20]
   Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair' - - Frank Warren [157]
   Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Novak - John Novak [36]
   Re: Angel Hair Links - Young - Bob Young [13]
   Re: Jimmy Carter The Nobel Prize & - Richard Hall [41]
   Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair' - - Richard Hall [36]

  Oct 11:

   New Documentary: UFOs: The Australian Connection - Stig Agermose [61]

  Oct 15:

   Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Young - Bob Young [13]
   Re: Russians Wonder: Mummy Of ET Or Retarded - Mac Tonnies [15]
   Re: Jimmy Carter The Nobel Prize & - Bob Young [51]
   Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Dittman - Geoff Dittman [24]
   Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Velez - John Velez [61]
   Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair' - - Larry Hatch [69]
   Re: Re: EMBLA 2002 - Hessdalen Optical & Ground - Massimo Teodorani
   [306]
   Re: Crisis At CUFOS - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [35]
   Dave Furlotte's SDI 210 'Take On It' - Eleanor White [30]
   Re: Strieber's Memory Fails In Hale-Bopp Tale - - Dave Haith [55]
   Dave Furlotte's SDI 210 'Take On It' - Eleanor White [30]

  Oct 16:

   Re: Math vs. Moore - Fleming - Lan Fleming [23]
   Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Rosales - Albert Rosales [11]
   Spanish Space Museum - Scott Corrales [47]
   Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Young - Bob Young [18]
   Rusty's 'Angel Hair' Lab Report - Amy Hebert [52]
   17th Century English Contactee? - David Clarke [76]
   Re: Angel Hair Links - Gehrman - Ed Gehrman [28]
   Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Stockstill - Bill Stockstill [22]
   Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair' - - Jim Speiser [56]
   Secrecy News -- 10/15/02 - Steven Aftergood [104]
   CCCRN News: 'Signs of Destiny' Conference - Tempe, - Paul Anderson [65]
   Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair' - - Ed Gehrman [74]
   Book Review - 'Without Consent' - Philip Mantle [98]
   Book Review - 'Awakening' - Philip Mantle [85]
   Filer's Files #42 - 2002 - George A. Filer [517]
   Disclosure2003 Campaign Press Release - Oct. 17 - Stephen Bassett [68]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 42 - John Hayes [660]

  Oct 17:

   Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair' - - Josh Goldstein [106]
   CI: The 'Cliff' Reimaged: New Discoveries - Mac Tonnies [54]
   Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair' - - Bruce Maccabee [42]
   Argentine Human Mutilation - Albert Rosales [10]
   CUFOS Crisis And More - Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos [18]
   Re: EMBLA 2002 - Hessdalen Optical & Ground Survey - Bruce Maccabee
   [86]
   Argentina: Possible Human Mutilation? - Scott Corrales [27]
   UFO Over North Seattle Area - John Novak [30]
   Re: EMBLA 2002 - Hessdalen Optical & Ground Survey - David G Bolton
   [53]
   Re: Jimmy Carter The Nobel Prize & - Richard Hall [61]
   EW: New Roper Poll 'Americans Ready for ET' - Kurt Jonach - The
   Electric Warrio=20 [72]
   Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Ledger - Don Ledger [24]
   Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair' - - Don Ledger [55]
   Mysterious Metal Fragment From Crash Site - Stig Agermose [42]
   Raelians Take Swing At Catholic Church - Stig Agermose [96]
   Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair' - - Jim Deardorff [46]
   Triangular UFO Observed In Western Slovakia - Stig Agermose [19]
   UFOs And... [was: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of - Jim Speiser [42]
   New Roper Poll/Sci Fi Channel Press Release - UFO UpDates - Toronto
   [78]
   Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - UFO UpDates - Toronto [237]
   Bova: Existence Of UFOs Nice But Evidence Lacking - UFO UpDates -
   Toronto [110]
   Thinking Critically Is Key To Understanding Science - UFO UpDates -
   Toronto [99]
   Similar UFO Sightings 50 Years Apart - UFO UpDates - Toronto [117]
   Re: Argentine Human Mutilation - Sanchez-Ocejo - Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo
   [21]
   Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair' - - Frank Warren [81]
   Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Hall - Richard Hall [18]
   Latest Research & Comments @ cohenufo.org - Jerry Cohen [37]
   Re: Thinking Critically Is Key To Understanding - Bill Hamilton [81]
   Shatner Directs & Acts In TV Movie 'Groom Lake' - Stig Agermose [57]
   Italian UFO Newsflash No. 370 - Edoardo Russo [100]
   Re: Rusty's 'Angel Hair' Lab Report - Gehrman - Ed Gehrman [55]
   Re: UFOs And... - Gehrman - Ed Gehrman [81]
   Secrecy News -- 10/17/02 - Steven Aftergood [121]
   Re: UFO Over North Seattle Area - Young - Bob Young [22]
   Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Young - Bob Young [22]
   Re: Jimmy Carter The Nobel Prize & - Bob Young [23]
   Re: Filer's Files #42 - 2002 - Young - Bob Young [28]
   Re: CUFOS Crisis - Rimmer - John Rimmer [39]
   Re: UFO Related Injuries - Rosales - Albert Rosales [20]
   Re: Rusty's 'Angel Hair' Lab Report - Hall - Richard Hall [77]
   Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Hall - Richard Hall [38]
   Re: Rusty's 'Angel Hair' Lab Report - Tonnies - Mac Tonnies [30]
   Re: UFO Over North Seattle Area - Novak - John Novak [22]
   Re: Crisis at CUFOS - Jerry Cohen [39]

  Oct 18:

   Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair' - - Nick Balaskas [66]
   Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Ledger - Don Ledger [14]
   Stones In Cuban Depths Fuel Atlantis Speculations - Stig Agermose [139]

  Oct 11:

   Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair' - Josh Goldstein [34]

  Oct 10:

   Re: Crisis At CUFOS - Dabrowski - Andrew Dabrowski [21]

  Oct 18:

   Re: Thinking Critically Is Key To Understanding - Bob Young [60]
   Re: Rusty's 'Angel Hair' Lab Report - Young - YoungBob2@aol.com [14]
   Re: Crisis at CUFOS - Bott - Murray Bott [48]
   Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Hatch - Larry Hatch [53]
   Re: Rusty's 'Angel Hair' Lab Report - Hebert - Amy Hebert [100]
   Re: CUFOS Crisis - Ballester Olmos - Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos [20]
   Re: UFOs And... - Speiser - Jim Speiser [32]
   Re: UFO Related Injuries - Speiser - Jim Speiser [22]
   Interactive UFO Experience On SCI FI's 'Taken' Site - Stig Agermose
   [90]

  Oct 11:

   New Documentary: UFOs: The Australian Connection - Stig Agermose [61]

  Oct 18:

   Pulse Lasers Enforce Change In SETI Methodology - Stig Agermose [33]
   Argentina: Possible Human Mutilation? CORRECTION - Scott Corrales [14]
   Re: Thinking Critically Is Key To Understanding - Bill Hamilton [41]
   Funding Crisis Threatens To Take Down SETI@home - Stig Agermose [71]
   Michigan Crop Circles 'Defy Explanation' - Stig Agermose [82]

  Oct 11:

   Re: Crisis At CUFOS - Bott - Murray Bott [31]

  Oct 18:

   Re: Raelians Take Swing At Catholic Church - - Josh Goldstein [39]
   Re: CUFOS Crisis - Clark - Jerome Clark [27]
   Re: Rusty's 'Angel Hair' Lab Report - Young - Richard Hall [25]

  Oct 10:

   Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair' - Jan Aldrich [50]

  Oct 18:

   Disclosure2003 Campaign Press Release - Oct 18 - Stephen Bassett [53]
   Re: Dave Furlotte's SDI 210 'Take On It' - Speiser - Jim Speiser [19]
   Re: NZ Herald On 50th Anniversary - Bott - Murray Bott [21]

  Oct 12:

   Strieber's Memory Fails In Hale-Bopp Tale - UFO UpDates - Toronto [111]

  Oct 15:

   Re: Strieber's Memory Fails In Hale-Bopp Tale - - Dave Haith [55]

  Oct 19:

   Secrecy News -- 10/18/02 - Steven Aftergood [122]
   Re: Pulse Lasers Enforce Change In SETI - eleanor@raven1.net [24]
   Richard Brunwick Photocollection - Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos [14]
   EW: SETI Denies ET Funding Crisis - Kurt Jonach - The Electric Warrior
   [91]
   Re: Rusty's 'Angel Hair' Lab Report - Gehrman - Ed Gehrman [153]
   Gleason - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [99]
   Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Goldstein - Josh Goldstein [46]
   UFOs In Russia: Witness Statements And X-Files - Stig Agermose [189]
   More UFOs Caught By Russian Military Cameras - Geoff Richardson [2]
   Can NASA Stop Newton's Apple From Falling? - Stig Agermose [127]
   'Earth vs. the Flying Saucers' A - Stig Agermose [277]
   Smith Articles & Lecture Now On-Line - Grant Cameron [11]
   Tale Of Big Bird Catches Some Air - GT McCoy [113]
   Re: Dave Furlotte's SDI 210 'Take On It' - White - Eleanor White [18]
   Hole In Larry Hatch's Back Yard Defies Explanation - Larry Hatch [37]
   Re: Richard Brunwick Photocollection - Rivera - Jean-Luc Rivera [18]
   Boeing Unveils Bird of Prey Stealth Demonstrator - UFO UpDates -
   Toronto [67]
   Teach Your Children Well - John [21]
   SDI, CUFOS, Hynek & Muhammad Ali - UFO UpDates - Toronto [63]

  Oct 20:

   Re: Hole In Larry Hatch's Back Yard Defies - Don Ledger [39]
   Re: UFOs And... - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [56]
   Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [33]
   Re: Richard Brunwick Photocollection - Ballester - Vicente-Juan
   Ballester Olmos [28]
   Re: Richard Brunwick Photocollection - Mancusi - Bruno Mancusi [31]
   Re: Gleason - Cameron - Grant Cameron [61]
   CI: Featured Essay 'Skeptics, Debunkers & - Mac Tonnies [110]
   SETI@homeII - Josh Goldstein [28]
   Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Hatch - Larry Hatch [78]
   UFO Interest On The Internet - Larry Hatch [43]
   Mothman Visits Alaska? - David Clarke [28]
   Re: CUFOS Crisis - Rimmer - John Rimmer [66]
   Re: UFOs And... - Hamilton - Bill Hamilton [67]
   Does ET See Earth As A Wildlife Reserve? - UFO UpDates - Toronto [65]

  Oct 21:

   Re: CUFOS Crisis - Clark - Jerome Clark [36]
   Re: Hole In Larry Hatch's Back Yard Defies - Jean Meiners [20]
   Re: Teach Your Children Well - Meiners - Jean Meiners [30]
   Re: UFOs And... - Yturria - Santiago Yturria [29]
   Re: CI: Featured Essay 'Skeptics, Debunkers & - Jim Speiser [16]
   Re: UFO Interest On The Internet - Speiser - Jim Speiser [37]
   Clinton Chief of Staff To Speak On UFO Disclosure - Grant Cameron [41]
   Re: Gleason - Sandow - Greg Sandow [35]
   Re: Hole In Larry Hatch's Back Yard - Larry Hatch [40]
   Re: Hole In Larry Hatch's Back Yard Defies - Larry Hatch [34]
   Re: UFO Interest On The Internet - Hatch - Larry Hatch [36]
   A Response From Word Tracker! - Larry Hatch [47]
   Spain: UFO over Molins del Rei? - Scott Corrales [18]
   Re: Newton, NASA and NIDS - Cohen - Jerry Cohen [50]
   'Light Kills' Livestock Attacks Girl In India - Albert Rosales [57]
   Re: CI: Featured Essay 'Skeptics, Debunkers & - Mac Tonnies [22]
   Swedish 'Contactee'? - Albert Rosales [8]
   Re: UFOs And... - Hall - Richard Hall [37]
   Secrecy News -- 10/21/02 - Steven Aftergood [149]
   CCCRNNews: Midale and Weyburn, Saskatchewan - Paul Anderson [39]
   Re: CI: Featured Essay 'Skeptics, Debunkers & - Bruce Maccabee [29]
   Re: UFO Interest On The Internet - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [17]
   Re: Does ET See Earth As A Wildlife Reserve? - - Bruce Maccabee [31]
   Re: UFOs And... - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [42]
   Re: CUFOS Crisis - Rimmer - John Rimmer [67]

  Oct 22:

   Re: Does ET See Earth As A Wildlife Reserve? - - Stan Friedman [54]
   FBI 'Scrambling' To Investigate UFO Over Albany - Kenny Young [15]
   Re: CUFOS Crisis - Gates - Robert Gates [29]
   Re: UFO Interest On The Internet - Gates - Robert Gates [17]
   SDI & Macintosh Users - John Velez [32]
   Re: 'Light Kills' Livestock, Attacks Girl In India - Eleanor White [33]
   Re: FBI 'Scrambling' To Investigate UFO Over - Don Ledger [29]
   Re: FBI 'Scrambling' To Investigate UFO Over - Bruce Maccabee [21]
   Re: CUFOS Crisis - Harney - John Harney [51]
   Re: CUFOS Crisis - Clark - Jerome Clark [83]
   Re: SDI & Macintosh Users - Velez - John Velez [42]
   Clinton Aide Slams Pentagon's UFO Secrecy - UFO UpDates - Toronto [78]
   Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Young - Bob Young [29]

  Oct 23:

   Re: CUFOS Crisis - Clark - Jerome Clark [42]
   Re: Clinton Aide Slams Pentagon's UFO Secrecy - - Michael Briggs [38]
   HBCC UFO Research Hungry Hill - British Columbia - Brian Vike [52]
   Re: Swedish 'Contactee'? - Hatch - Larry Hatch [17]
   Re: UFO Interest On The Internet - Hatch - Larry Hatch [40]
   Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Ledger - Don Ledger [39]
   Information On Michigan Sightings - Todd Lemire [65]
   FBI Investigates UFO Video Now 'Bug Frequency'? - Kenny Young [40]
   Hungry Hill British Columbia - Second Sighting - Brian Vike [40]
   Sci Fi News Conference - Larry W. Bryant [118]
   Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Velez - John Velez [84]
   Secrecy News -- 10/23/02 - Steven Aftergood [138]
   Re: FBI 'Scrambling' To Investigate UFO Over - Santiago Yturria [17]
   Las Vegas Sun: Feds Asked To Shed Light On UFOs - Stig Agermose [61]
   Fireball Phenomena & Associated Festival In - Bill Chalker [32]
   Spanish Ufology Meets in Teruel - Scott Corrales [66]
   Podesta Update - Grant Cameron [9]
   Re: CUFOS Crisis - Lechevalier - Remy Lechevalier [27]
   Re: Rusty's 'Angel Hair' Lab Report - Hebert - Amy Hebert [26]
   Sci Fi Channel Drive For Investigation Of UFOs - Stig Agermose [27]
   Re: CUFOS Crisis - Young - Bob Young [24]
   Brazilian Found Wandering In Chilean Desert - Thiago Luiz Ticchetti
   [22]
   Helping CUFOS A La 'Lazy-Man' Method - John Velez [25]
   My Scoop Marks - Carey Sullins [90]
   Filer's Files #43 - 2002 - George A. Filer [490]
   Re: Sci Fi News Conference - Velez - John Velez [38]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 43 - John Hayes [510]
   Educational UFO Website For Scientists - Bernard Haisch [7]

  Oct 24:

   Re: Helping CUFOS A La 'Lazy-Man' Method - - Bill Stockstill [24]
   Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [56]
   John Podesta On Area 51 - Grant Cameron [58]
   Feds Asked To shed Light On UFOs - Grant Cameron [55]
   Re: Sci Fi News Conference - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [20]
   Failure of Justice (Continued) - Larry W. Bryant [69]
   Sci Fi Release On UFO Disclosure - Stig Agermose [52]
   Art Bell To Announce Retirement - Stig Agermose [53]
   Re: FBI Investigates UFO Video Now 'Bug - Jim Speiser [19]
   Re: Educational UFO Website For Scientists - - Jim Speiser [19]
   SETI Launches New Detection Scale - Stig Agermose [53]
   Re: Educational UFO Website For Scientists - Hatch - Larry Hatch [30]
   Re: Educational UFO Website For Scientists - - Wendy Connors [38]
   Strange Being Found In Southern Chile - Scot Corrales [46]
   Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Ledger - Don Ledger [72]
   Re: Educational UFO Website For Scientists - Ledger - Don Ledger [32]
   Re: SETI Launches New Detection Scale - Hamilton - Bill Hamilton [42]
   Re: Secrecy News -- 10/23/02 - Warren - Frank Warren [28]
   Clifford Stone? - Philip Mantle [22]
   Re: Educational UFO Website For Scientists - - Jim Deardorff [28]
   Re: Rusty's 'Angel Hair' Lab Report - Gehrman - Ed Gehrman [47]
   Re: CUFOS Crisis - Clark - Jerome Clark [48]
   British Columbia Sighting - 10-15-02 - Brian Vike [32]
   Anomaly Foundation Web Update - Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos [12]
   Re: Educational UFO Website For Scientists - Velez - John Velez [72]
   Re: Educational UFO Website For Scientists - - Wendy Connors [30]
   Magonia Supplement 41 - John Rimmer [240]
   Crop Circle Genuine Says Scientist - UFO UpDates - Toronto [42]
   Japan Today "Do You Believe In UFOs?" - UFO UpDates - Toronto [53]
   Re: Educational UFO Website For Scientists - - Jim Speiser [38]
   Re: Educational UFO Website For Scientists - - Jim Speiser [52]
   Re: Magonia Supplement 41 - Speiser - Jim Speiser [40]
   Re: Magonia Supplement 41 - Hall - UFO UpDates - Toronto [33]
   Re: Sci Fi News Conference - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [19]
   CI: TransOrbital to Launch Moon Probe - Mac Tonnies [28]
   Scientists Weigh In On Crop Circles - Stig Agermose [71]
   BBC Snaps Up Spielberg's 'Taken' - Stig Agermose [46]

  Oct 25:

   Re: SETI Launches New Detection Scale - Deardorff - Jim Deardorff [70]
   Does The Sun Have A Doomsday Twin? - Stig Agermose [91]
   Computer Program To Send Data Back In Time - Stig Agermose [87]
   Re: CUFOS Crisis - Gates - Robert Gates [36]
   APRO? - Brian Vike [7]
   Re: Educational UFO Website For Scientists - Hatch - Larry Hatch [63]
   Russia: Another 'Alien' Skeleton? - Scott Corrales [21]
   France: Strange UFO Photo - Scott Corrales [23]
   Chile: UFO Over Angol - Scott Corrales [27]
   Re: Rusty's 'Angel Hair' Lab Report - Hebert - Amy Hebert [80]
   Re: Art Bell To Announce Retirement - Velez - John Velez [34]
   Re: Brazilian Found Wandering In Chilean Desert - - John Velez [53]
   Martian Rock 'Does Contain Life' - Stig Agermose [62]
   Re: CUFOS Crisis - Bourdais - Gildas Bourdais [39]
   Re: Magonia Supplement 41 - Friedman - Stanton Friedman [51]
   Re: Jimmy Carter The Nobel Prize & - Jerry Cohen [83]
   Re: Brazilian Found Wandering In Chilean Desert - - Thiago Luiz
   Ticchetti [75]
   Criticism Of New Drive For UFO Disclosure - Stig Agermose [78]
   Space.com Delves Into Disclosure Campaign - Stig Agermose [161]
   John Podesta - FYI - John Novak [60]
   Secrecy News -- 10/25/02 - Steven Aftergood [202]
   Re: APRO? - Speiser - Jim Speiser [10]
   Greer Vs. Spielberg - Grant Cameron [131]
   Re: APRO? - Randle - Kevin Randle [18]
   Re: Greer Vs. Spielberg - Randle - Kevin Randle [22]

  Oct 26:

   Re: APRO? - Speiser - Jim Speiser [26]
   Re: APRO? - Vike - Brian Vike [16]
   The Stan Romanek Case? - Chris Burns [16]
   Re: Brazilian Found Wandering In Chilean Desert - - Luis R. Gonzalez
   [19]
   Were Lights UFOs Or Just A Laser Show? - Stig Agermose [27]
   Re: Greer Vs. Spielberg - Tonnies - Mac Tonnies [33]
   Re: Magonia Supplement 41 - Harney - John Harney [50]
   Re: Magonia Supplement 41 - Harney - John Harney [48]
   UFO Video At The Why? Files - Geoff Richardson [6]
   Re: Brazilian Found Wandering In Chilean Desert - - Dr. Virgilio
   Sanchez-Ocejo [18]
   Re: Criticism Of New Drive For UFO Disclosure - - Mac Tonnies [24]
   Re: APRO? - Aldrich - Jan Aldrich [68]
   Re: Greer Vs. Spielberg - Myers - Royce J. Myers III - The Watchdog
   [56]
   Bush Lawyer Talks FOIA - Grant Cameron [57]
   Re: Greer Vs. Spielberg - Velez - John Velez [164]
   MOGUL Mangled Math - Brad Sparks <removedbyrequest> [234]
   Re: Greer Vs. Spielberg - Koch - Joachim Koch [78]
   Re: Brazilian Found Wandering In Chilean Desert - - Thiago Luiz
   Ticchetti [30]
   Re: Greer Vs. Spielberg - Hatch - Larry Hatch [60]
   Re: Magonia Supplement 41 - Harney - John Harney [67]
   Can't You Spell 'Sheaffer'? - Jerry Cohen [35]
   Re: APRO? - Young - Bob Young [13]
   Re: Magonia Supplement 41 - Hall - Richard Hall [63]
   Re: Were Lights UFOs Or Just A Laser Show? - Pope - Nick Pope [31]
   Re: APRO? - Aldrich - Jan Aldrich [32]
   Re: Chile: UFO Over Angol - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [72]
   Re: SETI Launches New Detection Scale - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [52]
   Re: APRO? - Vike - Brian Vike [24]
   Re: APRO? - Speiser - Jim Speiser [28]
   Re: Magonia Supplement 41 - Speiser - Jim Speiser [59]
   Re: Greer Vs. Speilberg - Kimball - Paul Kimball [25]
   Robert Kennedy Skeptical On UFOs - Grant Cameron [35]

  Oct 28:

   'Strange' Chilean Creature A Marsupial - Scott Corrales [51]
   Re: Greer Vs. Spielberg - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [16]
   Re: APRO? - Ballester Olmos - Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos [22]

  Oct 27:

   Re: SETI Launches New Detection Scale - Deardorff - Jim Deardorff [79]
   Re: SETI Launches New Detection Scale - Young - Bob Young [22]
   Re: APRO? - Young - Bob Young [19]
   Re: Greer Vs. Spielberg - Stockstill - Bill Stockstill [26]
   Veterinarians Analyse Chilean Humanoid Creature - Dr. Virgilio
   Sanchez-Ocejo [104]
   Re: Magonia Supplement 41 - Harney - John Harney [50]
   Re: APRO? - Clark - Jerome Clark [35]
   Review: UFOs And The National Security State - Mac Tonnies [26]

  Oct 28:

   For The Record: P-47: UFO Archives - Rod Brock [81]
   Re: APRO? - Gates - Robert Gates [26]
   John Podesta: Clinton's X-Files Man - Grant Cameron [182]
   North 39 x West 76 Meteor? - Judith Simons [23]
   Chile: More on Mystery Creature - Scott Cprrales [34]
   Re: Magonia Supplement 41 - Hale - Roy Hale [18]
   Chile: Further Naysaying in Mystery Creature Case - Scott Corrales [70]
   Re: Magonia Supplement 41 - Hale - Roy Hale [14]
   Re: Review: UFOs And The National Security State - - Richard Hall [35]
   Chile: Researchers Battle Over Vet's Conclusions - Scott Corrales [62]
   Re: Greer Vs. Spielberg - King - Tom King [187]

  Oct 29:

   Budd Hopkins' UFO Seminar 11-09-02 - The Intruders Foundation [63]
   PR-UFO Library For Sale - Greg Raymond [13]
   Re: APRO? - Vike - Brian Vike [28]
   Re: APRO? - Vike - Brian Vike [30]
   Re: SETI Launches New Detection Scale - Hamilton - Bill Hamilton [50]
   Re: APRO? - Young - Bob Young [33]
   Secrecy News -- 10/28/02 - Steven Aftergood [126]
   Re: APRO? - Speiser - Jim Speiser [32]
   Re: Review: UFOs And The National Security State - - John Rimmer [34]
   Re: Review: UFOs And The National Security State - - Mac Tonnies [21]
   Space Trip Changed My Life - Astronaut - UFO UpDates - Toronto [54]
   Re: Magonia Supplement 41 - Speiser - Jim Speiser [40]
   Re: Greer Vs. Spielberg - Gates - Robert Gates [42]
   Re: Greer Vs. Spielberg - Hatch - Larry Hatch [25]
   Re: APRO? - Speiser - Jim Speiser [48]
   Re: APRO - UFO UpDates - UFO UpDates - Toronto [38]
   Re: Re: Chile: Researchers Battle Over Vet's Conclusions - Bill
   Stockstill [70]
   Mount Roche de Boule In Hazelton, BC - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [33]
   Re: APRO? - LeChevalier - Remy LeChevalier [11]
   Re: APRO? - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [47]
   Re: Greer Vs. Spielberg - Hatch - Bill Stockstill [33]
   Re: Review: UFOs And The National Security State - - John Rimmer [5]
   Re: Review: UFOs And The National Security State - - Jerome Clark [18]
   Re: APRO - Aldrich - Jan Aldrich [54]
   Re: SETI Launches New Detection Scale - Deardorff - Jim Deardorff [77]
   Secrecy News -- 10/29/02 - Steven Aftergood [103]
   Re: APRO? - Clark - Jerome Clark [17]
   Re: Secrecy News -- 10/25/02 - Warren - Frank Warren [83]
   Netscape's [AOL's] 'AtPlay' - Larry Bryant [1]
   UFOs: Seeking the Truth Through Savvy Marketing - UFO UpDates - Toronto
   [155]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 44 - John Hayes [543]

  Oct 30:

   Re: UFOs: Seeking the Truth Through Savvy - John Cussen [50]
   Fox News: Albany Video Back Online - Stig Agermose [17]
   Freedom Of Information Act On The Ropes - Grant Cameron [139]
   Re: Magonia Supplement 41 - Ledger - Don Ledger [58]
   Filer's Files #44 - 2002 - George A. Filer [518]
   Re: Magonia Supplement 41 - Whitlock - Chris Whitlock [43]

  Oct 31:

   Videos? - Royce J. Myers III - The Watchdog [8]
   Science & The Failure To Investigate Unidentified - UFO UpDates -
   Toronto [1575]
   NASA Debunks Moon Hoax Theory - Kurt Jonach - The Electric Warrior=20
   [54]
   Re: Re: Jimmy Carter The Nobel Prize & Extraterrestrials - Bob Young
   [38]
   Re: Sci Fi Release On UFO Disclosure - Young - Bob Young [16]
   Mount Roche de Boule Hazelton B.C. 2nd Witness - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO
   Research [19]
   Hickson-Parker Abduction Revisited - Stig Agermose [370]
   Re: Magonia Supplement 41 - Friedman - Stanton Friedman [65]

   The number enclosed in brackets is the number of lines of new text in





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   Oct > Oct 1

                            Re: Symbols - Anthony

From: Gary Anthony <garyant@mithrand.karoo.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 23:52:49 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 01:12:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Symbols - Anthony


 >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 20:54:31 +0000
 >Subject: Re: Symbols

 >My only problem with this is, what is there for language and
 >code experts to study if they are truly alien language/writings?
 >They would have nothing to compare it with; no precedents for
 >figuring out its meaning.

 >The best that could be expected is an argument of the reductio
 >ad absurdum type: These sure ain't human language!

<snip>

Hi List, Dick,

Your first paragraph demonstrates a great deal. Yes, probably it
would be impossible without some Rosetta Stone to unlock
translations of an alien language. There are plenty of Earth
languages to compare, and what's more important is, that a
linguist may be able to determine the 'structure' of an alien
language without being able to translate it. Do you think this
wouldn't tell us anything? It would be foolish to suppose so!.
There are numerous unknown human languages, which have had their
structures determined to some degree which have unlocked
countless testable things about mindsets of people and the
intelligence that devised these systems, despite the fact such
languages have never been translated and still remain a complete
mystery to date.

With such structure and other analyses we may be able to learn
certain things about the alleged 'alien' mind and intelligence.
This, any linguist worth his/her salt could tell you in five
minutes. Of course, alien languages or communication could be so
diverse as to beggar description or quantifying; and be
impossible to understand for humans - or maybe not. The point is
there is scientific analysis which lies in the domain of the
linguist's discipline to determine this with abductee and
witness samples and it has not been followed up.


Best Regards

Gary








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   Oct > Oct 1

                  UFOs Are Not Getting Enough Azeri Respect

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 02:13:04 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 01:18:15 -0400
Subject: UFOs Are Not Getting Enough Azeri Respect


Source: The Moscow Times,

http://www.moscowtimes.ru/stories/2002/10/01/008.html

Stig

***

Tuesday, October 01, 2002

UFOs Are Not Getting Enough Azeri Respect

By Chloe Arnold

**

BAKU, Azerbaijan -- There's an inordinate number of UFOs roaming
the skies above Azerbaijan, and they're trying to tell us
something, according to Elchin Khalilov, director of the
Permanent Committee for Anomalous Phenomena at the National
Academy of Sciences.

I must be looking in the wrong places, because every time I look
at the sky above Baku, all I see is a thick blanket of smog and
the occasional airplane.

"Come to my office, and I'll show you something I think will
greatly surprise you," Khalilov said. And so last Friday I found
myself at a building with black windows and marble staircases
that calls itself the International Complex for Science and
Technology.

The receptionist and two security guards were too busy watching
Steven Spielberg's "A.I. Artificial Intelligence" to notice me.

"Is Mr. Khalilov here?" I asked. They waved me into a corner and
went back to their film. Suddenly, a giant of a man with a bushy
black beard appeared beside me.

"Welcome," he said and showed me into his office. The walls were
lined with books on crop circles and the Bermuda Triangle, and
his desk overflowed with treatises on flying saucers from Utah
to Ukraine.

"I used to be an ordinary scientist specializing in
earthquakes," he said. "But on the evening of April 17, 1999,
something happened that changed my life." His father telephoned
him and said that something strange was hovering in the sky
above Baku. When he got there, he saw a ball of light with what
looked like a tail at the back.

"I caught it on tape," he said, and he showed me a crackly film
of Baku by night with a pale light floating above it that might
have been the moon. Ever since then, Khalilov has dedicated his
time to strange phenomena in the sky.

"I can't rule out the possibility that these are creatures from
another world," he said. And his findings aren't limited to
Azerbaijan -- he says he saw similar objects on vacations in
Spain and Dubai.

To supplement his scant footage, Khalilov launched a competition
to encourage the nation to send in photographs and videos of
UFOs. The response was overwhelming -- he received over 40 hours
of film and hundreds of photographs.

The best one showed a perfect flying saucer cruising just a few
feet above a dacha. The saucer had a domed roof and red and
yellow lights around its rim. "We were going to give it first
prize, but the photographer admitted he'd rigged up a teapot lid
with a piece of thread and taken a picture of its shadow,"
Khalilov said sadly. "UFOs aren't taken seriously in this
country, and it makes me very disheartened."

**

Chloe Arnold is a freelance journalist based in Baku, Azerbaijan.

=A9 Copyright 2002, The Moscow Times. All Rights Reserved.





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                           Re: Symbols - Goldstein

From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 02:11:02 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 01:21:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Symbols - Goldstein


Hello fellow Listerions,

I am glad that the discussion regarding alien exoglyphs or
symbols is moving forward. A few days ago I composed a message
titled Alien Symbols. I thought I had sent it but due to a
couple of power outages in my area (no doubt caused by the
aliens to block my message <g>) it never made it up to EBK's HQ.
It was a reply to Dick Hall and John Velez. It still seems
pertinent so I'll send a copy to EBK to put on the List.

I just want to agree that I think the exoglyphs or symbols
should be kept anonymous and presented to the qualified
University faculty to be taken under study. They should also be
examined by the Carl Jung Institute (one section is in New York)
and especially by ARAS, who I mentioned in the post I will now
resend and which has their link at the bottom. Even though the
exoglyphs or symbols may seem to a layman to not resemble some
human archetypal symbols, that is the kind of decision that
should be made by a body of professionals in the field. The same
should be done regarding the full reports of the experiencers. I
would like to see the pertinent information from John Velez,
Dick Hall, Budd Hopkins, and Gary Anthony somehow combined and
presented to a variety of disciplines.

I am still trying to ascertain what qualified Psychiatrists or
Psychologists and their professional bodies - not John Mack,
hypnotherapists, counselors, or healers - have written regarding
claims of alien abductions. I welcome any leads in that
direction.

I want to thank John Velez for baring his soul on this List
regarding his experiences. I especially want to thank him for
showing good heart and good nature in his posts and responses in
the past. Those were thoughtful messages that I'm sure were well
received by all participants.


Keep 'em flyin',

Josh










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                            ARAS & Alien Symbols

From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 02:21:56 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 01:26:13 -0400
Subject: ARAS & Alien Symbols


To Dick Hall and fellow Listerions,

Dick, you wanted to see visual representations of the types of
collective unconcious archetypes. I tried to find a site with a
variety of symbols printed on the web but did not find what I
was looking for. Rather than further pursuing that path I felt
it might be easiest for you to go back to the link on ARAS I had
in my last post and that is also located below this message.  If
you look in the picture gallery you will see some examples.

Look at the image on the ARAS home page, listen to what that
image brings up in you. What does it symbolize, represent in
you? What feelings does that image bring up?

Click on resources at the top of the page. Look at that pottery
statue. What does that represent to you? What does it represent
to the culture that created this statue image?

Draw a circle. Look at it. What does it bring up in you? To
Jung, a circle symbolizes completion, wholeness, connection. I'm
not suggesting that the round shape of flying saucers is only a
symbol from our unconsciousness.

Look at a mandala. What does that represent? What does the
symbol of an angel represent from our unconsciousness?

Think of the word "summit". What does that symbolize? Solidity,
security, initiation, ascension, transcendence? The meeting of
God and man? In history an altar was a sacrificial stone placed
high from the ground. What does sacrifice symbolize? What does
blood symbolize? What does the heart symbolize? What did Wagner
symbolize? What imagery did he use? What does it evoke in all
people?

It is fascinating that all humans share the same collective
unconscious throughout all cultures that has been represented in
many forms of symbology. Two cultures totally out of touch with
each other may have vastly different appearing symbols. However,
they are their particular culture's representations of what we
share in common. Many lives and deaths are caused by what
symbols represent. At similar stages of their culture, those
images may be ones developed individually by that culture for a
particular purpose. Yet at various times in its history the
culture would bring out new images that were different examples
of the past symbol and wiould be used for the same purposes.

Our dreams are living examples of the psyche using its
archetypes.

It is a fascinating field that spans many disciplines;
psychology, mythology, art, history, anthropology, archaeology,
religious studies, etc.

Unfortunately a pseudo science, spiritual, mystical,
metaphysical, and New Age fringe who are not academically
educated are primarily speculating, and publish their work.  If
you really want to learn more in this field there is a huge body
of scholarly work.

I have not pursued any particular work in the area of alien
abduction other than taking reports and referring those persons
to the proper people. As I said yesterday, for a long time I
have been curious about what images from experiencers might
represent.

I'm not trying to state whether any symbols reported may or may
not have been related by aliens through the experiencer. I don't
know what is the truth behind the abduction scenario. It would
be fascinating if aliens represented their symbols from the same
or a different collective unconsciousness than humans. I also
have wondered what those symbols represent to a Jungian
psychiatrist or psychologist and to other psychological
approaches.

The mention on the List of the experiencer symbols, and in
particular John Velez's report of how he reacted when he was
shown some of those symbols. made an idea on my back burner jump
towards the front.  I was waiting for my time to ease up and I
wanted to make an assesment of the abducrion field to get an
idea of what psychologists or psychiatrists who have worked with
abductees (not abduction researchers, counselors, or
hypnotherapists) have reported.

Like John, I think some abduction researchers, use of regressive
hypnosis, and lack of training have harmed some abductees. I
would want to see what properly licensed professionals have
reported about their work on experiencers. I also want to
research what those professionals believe may or may not be
happening with those experiencers and their reports. I was going
to start that study in the near future. I was going to research
what is available to me before asking for assistance from this
list. Now that I mentioned it, I welcome anything along that
line.

I would like to see a body of the proper professionals examine
the alien symbols and reports of experiencers to interpret their
deeper levels of significance. I would start with professionals
in the symbology of the psyche.

Dick, in my opinion I would like you, Budd, and anyone else to
first have the symbols and cases you have analyzed by the types
of professionals I have mentioned. Perhaps ARAS would be a good
place to start. I would prefer that someone who has worked with
experiencers contact them to see if they have an interest in
receiving preliminary documentation to examine whether they
would want to get involved in such a study. If you look on the
resources page of the ARAS site you will also find information
on the various Jung Institutes and centers.

Once again, I am not trying to say that I believe flying saucers
and alien abductions are only self generated products of the
psyche.


Josh

http://www.aras.org/
Volume I
Volume II
About ARAS
History of ARAS
Picture Gallery
Resources

The Archive for Research in Archetypal Symbolism








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   Oct > Oct 1

                     Alien Abductors Just Being Friendly

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 02:31:07 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 01:32:56 -0400
Subject: Alien Abductors Just Being Friendly


Source: Calgary Herald

http://www.canada.com/calgary/story.asp?id=3D0621D492-4268-41F9-83B1-015E05B=
6CDEE

Stig

***

Aliens just being friendly

Bring message of hope, says researcher

The Canadian Press

Monday, September 30, 2002

**

Forget the probes. Don't worry about an invasion.

Aliens are actually quite affable, according to a recent
university study.

When extraterrestrials abduct earthlings, they often share with
them a message of hope, according to anthropologist Krista
Henriksen.

"They tell people they're not alone, that they're special,
they're chosen for a purpose," said Henriksen, who studied the
personal accounts of 60 men and women who claimed to have had
close encounters.

Most of them recounted being told there are profound, terrible
problems with the world, but that they had been chosen to do
something about it.

"Sometimes they have malevolent messages, manipulative, nasty
messages. But that was, by far, the minority," Henriksen said
from her home in St. John's.

"Most often extraterrestrials were bringing messages of
goodwill."

Henriksen recently earned her master's degree in anthropology
from Simon Fraser University with the study, Alien Encounters: A
close analysis of personal accounts of extraterrestrial
experiences.

Although she is "highly skeptical" that aliens have ever
abducted anyone, it's important to study the phenomenon, she
said.

It's easy to dismiss fringe groups like those who believe
they've been abducted, she said.

But studying them gives us a better understanding of who we are.

The increase in reports of UFO encounters (10 per cent of the
Canadian population believes that they have seen one, according
to some studies) parallels an increase in new religious
movements.

"People are searching for meaning in all sorts of places that
generally aren't mainstream religious places, they're more
independent places," Henriksen said.

"This could be one of them."

Chris Rutkowski, research co-ordinator of Ufology Research of
Manitoba, said there were 375 reports of UFO sightings in Canada
in 2001.

For some, such encounters are a religious experience.

"Whether they're 'real' or not, is another matter entirely," he
said in an interview from Winnipeg.

Tens of thousands of such encounters are reported annually in
North America.

Most of the stories, which are posted on a Web site for Citizens
Against UFO Secrecy, describe the alien abductors -- all human-
like with features such as feet, fingers and eyes -- as
researchers, according to Henriksen.

They are "interested in us, and not necessarily in taking us
over," she said.

Also See - Editorial on page A14

**

=A9 Copyright 2002 Calgary Herald








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              Report On The 39th Annual National UFO Conference

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 02:24:28 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 01:31:29 -0400
Subject: Report On The 39th Annual National UFO Conference


Source: Dayton Daily News

http://www.activedayton.com/ddn/local/daily/0929aliens.html

Stig

***

September 29, 2002

Curious turn out for alien gathering

UFO researchers meet at Kings Island

By Lisa Bernard
Cox News Service

**

MASON | "Rebirth of Curiosity" was the theme Saturday at the
39th annual National UFO Conference held at Kings Island Resort
and Conference Center.

Hundreds attended the all-day event, checking out everything
from plaster molds of alien footprints to literature written by
alien abductees.

Dave Bachman of northern Kentucky said he came to feed his
curiosity.

"This type of thing has always fascinated me," he said. "I don't
know if everyone's story is true, but I think there's too much
of it out there for it all to be hoaxed."

Laura Bentley of Cincinnati said she attended to see what
"strange people came out of the woodwork. I guess it's morbid
curiosity."

Curious people like Bachman and Bentley keep alive the study of
possible extraterrestrial life, said conference coordinator
Kenny Young.

"Often the subject of UFOs is one of tomfoolery, and we know
that," Young said. "We don't take ourselves seriously, but we
take our research very seriously."

Young said "certainty" =97 about uniqueness of life on this planet
or any set of beliefs =97 can lead to limiting, deadly
consequences. He used last year's attacks by Muslim terrorists
as an example.

"They had certainty in their faith and it gave them motivation
behind their actions," he said. "Perhaps if they were curious
about other cultures and beliefs, things might be different
today. Curiosity is perhaps the only mechanism we have against
the scourge of certainty."

Among the speakers was Cincinnati-based UFO investigator Donnie
Blessing of the Mutual UFO Network (MUFON), who said Ohio has at
least 50 reported UFO sightings each year.

A retired Clermont County librarian, Blessing has been
investigating UFO events for two years and is director of
MUFON's southern Ohio branch.

"It's hard to tell if people are telling the truth or not when I
call them and talk to them about their sighting," she said.
"Some of the stories seem too fantastic. But when you get them
in person, you can tell pretty quickly."

Blessing added, "People need to have an open mind about this.
It's just up to us keep researching."

[From the Dayton Daily News: 09.29.2002]

**

Copyright =A9 2002, Cox Ohio Publishing. All rights reserved.








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                        Archive Top 20 'Reads' 09-02

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 03:25:49 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 03:25:49 -0400
Subject: Archive Top 20 'Reads' 09-02

This list compiled from stats generated by Analog 5.22 website
log analyser - the [numbers] represent reads.....

   1 Bob Lazar - True or False?
     Glenn Campbell - [1955]
     http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/jun/m22-012.shtml

   2 Of Flying Wings & Hover Cars
     ebk - [421]
     http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/1998/aug/m03-008.shtml

   3 Of Sociopaths & Conspiracy
     Alfred Lehmberg - [341]
     http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2001/feb/m07-003.shtml

   4 Mystery Object J002E3
     Don Ledger - [316]
     http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/sep/m10-015.shtml

   5 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed?
     Chris Rutkowski - [280]
     http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/apr/m05-017.shtml

   6 'ET Abduction' & Death Of Pennsylvania Man Reported
     ebk - [275]
     http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/sep/m11-009.shtml

   7 Argentina: Large UFO Causes Ground Effects
     Scott Corrales - [270]
     http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/jul/m24-019.shtml

   8 Magic Circle
     ebk - [256]
     http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/sep/m20-017.shtml

   9 Tom Lykis' Radio Show Attacks Art Bell
     Erik Beckjord - [248]
     http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/1997/mar/m30-010.shtml

  10 Offically Released Documents Support MJ-12
     Stig Agermose - [243]
     http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/sep/m11-003.shtml

  11 Russian Miltary UFO Photos
     Geoff Richardson [238]
     http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/sep/m24-011.shtml

  12 F16 Fighter Scramble In DC
     Paul Novak - [223]
     http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/sep/m07-006.shtml

  13 Errol Bruce-Knapp Is A Covert Operative
     J B Michaels [222]
     http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/sep/m17-016.shtml

  14 Hoagland Finds City Under Cydonia
     Chaz Stuart - [212]
     http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/sep/m07-007.shtml

  15 Ambiguous Roswell Document?
     Mac Tonnies - [211]
     http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2001/nov/m01-002.shtml

  16 Filer's Files #44 - 2001
     George Filer [210]
     http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2001/nov/m01-001.shtml

  17 Re: Psychological Trauma
     John Velez - [208
     http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2001/nov/m01-004.shtml

  18 Police Helicopter Chases UFO
     Stig Agermose [205]
     http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/sep/m04-007.shtml

  19 Roswell Rods On NBC Show
     Stig Agermose [203]
     http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/1999/aug/m16-001.shtml

  20 'Aliens' In Military Exercise In Arkansas?
     ebk - [203]
     http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/sep/m04-031.shtml







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   Oct > Oct 1

                    UFOs Debated At Wisconsin Conference

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 03:49:00 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 03:31:04 -0400
Subject: UFOs Debated At Wisconsin Conference


Source: Manitowoc Herald Times Reporter

http://www.wisinfo.com/heraldtimes/news/archive/local_6233380.shtml

Stig

***

Posted Sept. 26, 2002

Much 'unexplained' in UFO session

Conference explores strange phenomena

By Alex Hummel
Gannett Wisconsin Newspapers

**

NEENAH -- Beer.

Cheese.

Crop circles?

Aside from the Packers' recent on-field performance, the Badger
State boasts quite a file of "the unexplained" =97 as in Bigfoot
sightings, eerie farmland apparitions and crop circles.

For the price of a movie and soda, a conference Sunday in Neenah
invites the public to witness Wisconsin's weird side, from
homegrown UFO phenomena to heavenly angels to evidence of past
lives.

"I think people have always had these questions, and now it has
become so mainstream that they feel like they can go to a
conference and it's not going to be new-agers with crystal
balls," said Chad Lewis, a 28 year-old Eau Claire resident and
conference speaker on "Strange Wisconsin." "It's regular people
going to these conferences."

Lewis dubs himself a paranormal researcher. He recently earned a
degree in applied psychology from the University of Wisconsin-
Stout with a thesis on college students' beliefs in the
paranormal.

He has been touring the state with conferences like the one
planned for Neenah's Park Plaza Valley Inn. The forums last
about two-and-a- half hours and typically draw between 100 to
200 people, Lewis said.

Manitowoc County has a long tradition of UFO sightings, dating
to the 1897 "airship" flap and most recently this Christmas when
two separate encounters were reported. The city of Manitowoc is
a point on what is internationally known as the "Lake Michigan
Triangle."

Those who believe in UFOs ride a recent wave of sci-fi seasoned
skepticism. "The X-Files" struck a nerve with the black-
helicopter crowd about a decade ago, but most recently the crop-
circle flic "Signs" and T.V. guru John Edward, who reunites dead
or "crossed over" people with the living have made waves.

Lewis' presentation is billed as a discussion of "his
investigations of Ghosts, UFO's, Alien Abductions, Crop Circles,
Bigfoot and Haunted Sites from Wisconsin" He said he always
caters his portion of the conference to the area he is visiting.

Lewis said he'd discuss a 1903 mass sighting of a UFO in the
Appleton area and, among other things like the Oshkosh woman who
died yawning the same year, a 1910 report of a large alligator
in Lake Winnebago south of Oshkosh.

"What a lot of people don't understand is when we have a bigfoot
sighting such as we had in Granton in 2000, a lot of these
things make national news," he said. "Wisconsin also has the
second highest rate of reported UFO sightings after New Mexico."

Lewis will be joined by Judy Meinen, an Eau Claire-area
registered nurse and healing touch practitioner who will
"demonstrate various techniques to use while encountering an
'eerie' feeling:" i.e., the possibility of the presence of
angels. Also on the bill is Bob Salt, a UW-Stout professor of
human development and a past life therapist discussing
reincarnation.

"I'm not talking about faith," Salt said. "I'm talking about
people who actually remember other lifetimes. There are little
children who just spontaneously remember previous lifetimes and
adults can do it through hypnosis or maybe a repeated dream.
What I'm going to do is describe the research done by scholars
compiling cases, and there are thousands."

Lewis said, at their core, the conferences always appeal to
those folks with the big questions.

"It's the basic questions we humans have always had," he said.
"Are we alone in the universe? What happens when we die? They
are all these questions people ask when they sit down and talk
about stuff Even if they don't necessarily believe, a lot of
people say, 'I'm a skeptic, but I really like the information.
It's given me a lot to think about."

*

'The Unexplained'

-What: A conference Sunday delving into Wisconsin's homegrown
UFO, crop circle phenomena and presentations on angels, ghosts,
past lives and reincarnation

-Where: Park Plaza Valley Inn, Neenah

-When: 4 p.m., doors open at 3:30 p.m. Sunday

-Cost: $10 at the door

**

Copyright =A9 2002








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   Oct > Oct 1

             Official Peruvian UFO Investigator: "ET Craft Real"

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 02:46:34 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 03:34:46 -0400
Subject: Official Peruvian UFO Investigator: "ET Craft Real"


Source: The Miami Herald,

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/4173036.htm

Stig

***

Posted on Sat, Sep. 28, 2002

Peruvians seek discovery and profit in UFOs

By Lucien O. Chauvin
Special to The Herald

**

LIMA - Of all the officers in all the armed forces of the world,
perhaps none has a more unusual job than Peruvian Air Force
Cmdr. Julio Chamorro: to investigate - and perhaps prove - the
existence of UFOs.

As head of the Office to Investigate Aerial Phenomena, Chamorro
directs a seven-member team in charge of studying what he calls
"anomalies that could cause problems with aviation."

Ostensibly, the office investigates planes that veer off course
and hang gliders that steer too close to military bases, but
that's not the crux of the work. Of the hundreds of calls
received each month by the office, Chamorro says at least half
are to report UFO sightings.

And Chamorro believes many are credible.

"There are several mysteries that we believe are highly
important and which merit our full attention," Chamorro said.
"If we can arrive at definitive conclusions, our work will be
highly beneficial to Peru and all of humanity. Just think about
the technological advances if we can definitely prove the
existence of spacecrafts."

MANY REPORTS

Chamorro estimates that 60 percent of Peru's population has seen
an unexplainable event in the sky. Most of the calls he receives
can be explained, but he says about a dozen each month are
credible sightings with no easy explanation.

There is, for example, the video taken in Chulucanas, Piura, at
the end of 2001. Chamorro says it shows a huge ship sitting in
the sky for nearly two hours. "The ship made no noise and did
not move. You can see the shape, which includes even windows,"
Chamorro said.

Chulucanas has a long history of UFO sightings, he added.

Chamorro's office was officially organized two years ago, but
the Peruvian government's interest in UFOs goes back decades,
and there is archaeological evidence that ancient cultures were
also hooked on other- worldly phenomena.

Miles-long geometric designs in the desert of Nazca, south of
Lima, or a winged god in the north are evidence for Chamorro
that past cultures not only mastered science and math, but had
an inkling that space might hold more than the sun and moon.

In Chilca, 40 miles south of Lima on the Pacific coast, Mayor
Numa Rueda is hoping to capitalize on the town's fame as one of
the hottest spots for UFO sightings.

"There is big money in sightings," Rueda said. "We can become
the next Roswell [N.M.]."

Looking to the heavens may be Chilca's best bet for dealing with
the very worldly problems of economic decay and poverty. The
town's annual budget is $100,000, and Rueda says most of
Chilca's 18,000 residents are impoverished and depend on a
three-month beach season to make ends meet.

A LINK TO ROSWELL

Chilca's mayor would like Bill Owen, his counterpart in Roswell
-- home to the International UFO Museum, New Mexico's most-
visited tourist attraction - to come to Peru and set up a
sister-city relationship.

"Roswell has a museum, and there's even a TV show," Rueda said
wistfully. "If we were to link up, we could develop a UFO
tourist circuit."

Like many people in Chilca, Rueda says he has seen unidentified
objects in the skies above his town.

In February 1998, Rueda says, he was chatting with his brother
one night outside their house when a large, boomerang-shaped
object appeared over a ridge that juts into the sea just beyond
Chilca.

He says the UFO moved slowly and made no noise. Six similarly
shaped smaller objects were nearby.

"The mother ship and the six other vehicles hovered for a few
minutes and then headed out to sea," Rueda said. "I had always
heard about UFOs, but this was my first sighting. For me it was
undeniable proof that there is life outside our planet."

Chilca also has its own tiny piece of ancient UFO history. In
the town's one-room museum, Rueda keeps a minuscule swath of
Incan textile wrapped in brown paper for safekeeping. The
textile depicts an oddly shaped nonhuman figure with antennas.

Rueda says the figure is similar to the extraterrestrial being
supposedly found in Roswell in 1947 and which forms the core of
UFO attractions that put the town on the map.

"This proves that we are not the first people to sight UFOs
here. The ancient Peruvians who inhabited Chilca also had sights
and possibly contact," he said.

Chamorro says sightings form part of Peru's culture, and even
the government has gotten in the act on and off over the years.

SCIENTIFIC STUDY

In 1955, Carlos Paz founded Peru's Institute for Inter-Planetary
Relations to study UFOs. Paz is a mythical figure in the
international UFO community and assumed the role of quasi-
diplomat from Peru to civilizations beyond the solar system.
Although he died in 1999, his daughter, Rose Marie, continues at
the helm.

"We are not like the philosophical groups. We are scientific. We
demand hard evidence of UFO sightings," she said.

So far, the visitors have not been considerate enough to leave
genuine scientific evidence behind. But that doesn't matter to
those who believe.

"The big difference between Peru and the United States is that
in the United States, people freak out if they see a UFO. They
want to join a cult or commit suicide," Chamorro said.

In Peru, he said, if people see a UFO they kick back and drink a
beer. Even better, Chamorro says, they hope the ship lands and
pays for the beer.

**

=A9 2001 miamiherald and wire service sources. All Rights
Reserved.

http://www.miami.com








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   Oct > Oct 1

                 Re: Cincinnati Enquirer on UFO Conference -

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 00:32:37 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 08:47:36 -0400
Subject: Re: Cincinnati Enquirer on UFO Conference -


 >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 12:50:49 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Cincinnati Enquirer on UFO Conference


 >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 10:24:06 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: Cincinnati Enquirer on UFO Conference


 >>>The Truth is out there.

 >>>Will somebody kindly inform me of the origin of this often used,
 >>>but highly unhelpful phrase?

 >>My, my. You must be an 'X-file-a-phobe'. So far as I know the
 >>phrase first appeared in the first X-Files show that was 8 or
 >>9-years ago (don't recall which year it started). Anyway,
 >>creater was Chris Carter... so I suppose he is the 'f'-head you
 >>refer to.

 >Hello Bruce:

 >That explains it, I'm probably the only one who nearly missed
t>he entire series, and thus the phrase.

 >The only episode I saw involved a railroad car buried on an
 >Indian Reservation, containing dead humanoids.

Ah, yes, I remember it well....
It really was a very creative series of shows!







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                             Re: Symbols - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 04:44:18 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 11:09:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Symbols - Velez


 >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 21:47:07 +0000
 >Subject: Re: Symbols

 >>Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 14:37:20 -0400
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >>Subject: Re: Symbols

 >>I thought _all_ the abductees were suffering from some kind of
 >>undiagnosed psychological disorder, that Budd was exploiting
 >>it/them, and that now, I must be losing my mind as well.

 >>I half expected (was hoping) to to find out that Budd was a
 >>complete fraud and that anyone who thought they were being
 >>abducted was simply nuts and needed help. (Myself included.) But
 >>that's not what happened though.

 >>Much to my shock and dismay, I began getting annoying signs, and
 >>confirmations that something real, physical, and tangible was
 >>happening. Every time I met an abductee I failed to find a 'nut'
 >>lurking under the surface. They were (for the most-part)
 >>perfectly ordinary, family oriented, hard working people like
 >>myself. Not cukoos.

 >>The scary confirmations started happening from day one. I knew
 >>absolutely nothing about ufology, abductions, cattle
 >>mutilations, crop circles, none of it. I hadn't read any books
 >>on the subject, and I never had attended a UFO lecture or a
 >>conference,

 >>I was as 'pristine' (uncontaminated) as one can be in terms of
 >>knowing anything about the subject. With the obvious exception
 >>of my own life-long, multiple UFO sightings and experiences. I
 >>had conveniently buried and ignored it all because I didn't know
 >>what to do with it. If I had talked to any one about any of that
 >>stuff, I _knew_ that whoever I confided in would have thought I
 >>was completely crackers. So I kept my mouth shut and each time
 >>those memories or thoughts would surface I would simply put my
 >>mind on something else.

 >>Until I read "Missing Time."

 >>Some of the disturbing confirmations I am speaking of consist of
 >>the following:

 >>Three out of the four of us that comprise my own immediate
 >>family, (my wife, myself, my daughter and my son) have a 'scoop
 >>mark' on our bodies.

 >>Budd had many pictures of those identical marks on the bodies of
 >>the abductees.

 >>My wife awoke one morning with a deep groove around her right
 >>upper thigh that was so freakish I rushed her to our family
 >>physician immediately. The 'mark' looked as if someone had taken
 >>one of those thin metal straps (that they use to tie big boxes)
 >>and used it on my wife's leg. The 'groove' was about a 1/2 inch
 >>deep! All around the thigh. It looked like it should have hurt
 >>like hell but she didn't feel any pain whatsoever. It took 18
 >>months for it to heal. Even today, years after, an impression is
 >>still visible. My doctor had never seen anything like it.

 >>Budd had photos of 'other' women with the _identical_ mark, in
 >>the same place, (upper right thigh) who claimed the marks were
 >>received during an abduction event. In fact, the first time he
 >>showed me the pictures I asked him how he had gotten pictures of
 >>my wife's leg! I had to look closely before I realized that it
 >>wasn't Margie's leg.

 >>The 'drawings' that I reproduced.

 >>Budd had a folder full.

 >>Then there's all the 'regular' symptoms; a life-time of close-up
 >>encounters with, and sightings of UFOs; missing time; fully
 >>conscious and clear recollections of bits and pieces of the
 >>abductions themselves over the years, on and on and on like
 >>that.

 >>Instead of it all "falling apart" as I expected at first, I
 >>began to get confirmation after confirmation that what was
 >>happening to myself and my family members was _firmly_ based in
 >>physical reality. That all of this impossible insanity was no
 >>hallucination or misinterpretation on my part.

 >>It didn't take long before the reality of my situation sank in
 >>and completely shattered mr and my world view. I went through
 >>the _exact_ same process that people go through when someone
 >>very close to them dies.

 >>Only the death that I was 'mourning' was my own. I sorely missed
 >>the ignorant but happy 'self' I used to be before I found out
 >>the truth. This has been a life-altering and deeply
 >>disturbing/disruptive piece of knowledge for me to have to
 >>integrate into my psyche/being/daily life.

 >>It's hasn't been easy at any time, or on any level to have to
 >>deal with something like this. Many of the people who goof on
 >>abductees, people who are reporting abduction, would soil their
 >>Depends safety napkins if anything similar ever happened to
 >>them. It _literally_ changes/expands the whole Universe from
 >>inside out.

 >>Early on I decided that I was going to dedicate my life to
 >>raising public awareness about this most urgent and disturbing
 >>phenomenon. I committed to do what I could to help Budd (and
 >>other researchers) in his/their work and to make myself
 >>available to help other abductees in any way that I could. For
 >>the last seven years, that is precisely what I have been doing.
 >>It has become my full-time, unpaid 'job.' And oh man, the amount
 >>of grief and pure BS I've had to endure/contend with all along
 >>the way is monumental!
 >
 >>>John, out of curiosity, was this "mindscan" a part of your
 >>>experience?
 >
 >>:) It was one of the _first_ details/memories that I
 >>regurgitated for Budd. Seeing those big, black eyes _close-up,_
 >>just an inch or two away from your face is something that
 >>becomes _indelibly_ burned into your mind forever.
 >
 >>It was vivid, waking visions of those 'eyes' staring into mine
 >>that triggered three trips to the emergency room for what I
 >>thought was a 'heart-attack', but which turned out to be
 >>"anxiety attacks".
 >
 >>One of those episodes was triggered by my seeing a small
 >>oriental woman in a grey raincoat, head scarf and 'aviator
 >>style' sunglasses. I was on my home from work, I saw her, and a
 >>feeling of 'mortal dread' instantly over came me. Man it was
 >>like being hit with a powerful wave at the ocean. Knocked me off
 >>my feet. I froze on the spot.
 >
 >>My heart started racing, breathing became labored and short, and
 >>I broke out in a cold sweat. My whole body felt weak, and it
 >>trembled, my knees turned to Jell-o. And all because that little
 >>lady triggered the vision of those big, black eyes floating
 >>right in front of my face.
 >
 >>Mind you, all of these incidents transpired fifteen years before
 >>I ever heard of Budd Hopkins, abductees or abduction.
 >
 >>You bet I am familiar with 'mindscan.' Intimately. I wish I knew
 >>an effective way to eliminate those memories and images from my
 >>mind.
 >
 >>Any suggestions? :)


Hi Dick, All,

You wrote:

 >A recurring theme in my experience of working with abductees is
 >that of their preferring to belive that they were having
 >mental/psychological problems.

It sounds strange but it's true. None of us were raised to
believe that such a thing as this was possible. It's just a hop,
skip and a jump from there to... I must be losing my mind if I'm
starting to think that something 'real' is going on. As screwed
up as it may sound to some, there is some logic to arriving at
such a conclusion.

I would question the integrity of a mind that instantly accepts
'alien' abduction as 'real' without major reservations
accompanied by equally strong feelings of self-doubt. The same
goes for anyone who doesn't give the 'possibility' that  maybe
the old elevator isn't quite making it to the top floor anymore,
a considered second thought.

 >That was something they felt they could deal with and get
 >help for.

Precisely! I can't speak for anybody else, but I would have much
preferred that I was suffering from a little self-delusion than
to find out that any of this is true. At least if the situation
had been that I was off my rocker, I could get some help/help
myself.

I can't 'fix' what's ailing me now. A big part of keeping myself
in some semblance of balance has to do with overcoming
powerful feelings of helplessness and fear. The only tools I
have to wage combat against it is by focusing on my family,
my friends and my work. I also channel a heap of energy, and
I blow off some of that steam, on this List.

For allowing me to do that I am deeply grateful to you all.

You guys are miles better than any single psychiatrist I could
have contracted for help. The feedback that I get here, because
it comes from so many different minds and points of view, is
like manna from Heaven for a very hungry me.

Being around you guys has helped to keep me "rational".  :)

 >But if the experiences were
 >real, the implications were mind-bending and reality-destroying.
 >I wrote a paper on this titled "Testing Reality" which, I think,
 >is still available from the Fund for UFO Research.

I'm going to secure a copy and give it a read. And yes, as
extreme as your comment about "mind-bending and reality-
  destroying" may sound to some, the words themselves are
inadequate to communicate the profound depth of the effect such
a revelation has on a persons whole being.

That's what I was talking about when I compared my own process
of assimilation to what a person goes through when someone close
dies. You feel shattered, blown away, empty, and alone. Nothing
makes sense and you find yourself smack dab in the middle of a
world of pain. There is a deep feeling of 'loss.' And you
'mourn.'

What I went through was exactly like an extended 'mourning'
process. I have been through that before. I lost my younger
brother to cancer when he was only 16. My grandmother's death.
Last year, my mother's death. I've been through it enough times
to recognize it when I see it. The process of integration for an
abductee has as profound an effect on the psyche, and cuts as
deep, as a death in the family.

It did for me anyway.

 >Once again, this turns the debunker position on end, assuming
 >that people get some kind of psychological gain out of being
 >abductees.

 >Au contraire!

Ask Errol about the "Shirley Show" sometime. Or watch the NOVA
episode on abduction. Go back into the archive and read some of
the past doings on this List.  If that's what any one calls
"getting attention" then you can have it.

I've paid in skin and bone for going public.

 >I would venture to say that except for those abductees in the
 >minority who try to rationalize their experiences as something
 >good and positive (out of desperation, in my opinion), the most
 >common reaction by far is fear, psychological and emotional
 >upset, and urgently seeking answers.

I agree.

 >This is hardly the profile of people who are seeking attention
 >or importance in life, one of those glib and absolutely wrong
 >skeptical generalizations.

That one originated with Phil Klass. I believe the quote is:
"abductees are little nobody's that are only seeking attention
and trying to get on TV."

What a freakin' humanitarian!

 >I have seen and vicariously experienced the fear, pain, and
 >anguish, and have found it both deeply unsettling and completely
 >convincing.

I often wondered how Budd et al. could do it day after day, year
after year without becoming a screaming lunatic. His skin must
be thick as leather to survive it psychologically and
emotionally intact. It _has_to_ take a toll on these guys. No
way that it doesn't. The interactions are too intensely personal
for it to be otherwise.


Regards,

John

Sign the International Petition to the United Nations
for disclosure of information pertaining to UFOs.

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   Oct > Oct 1

                                Abductee Fear

From: Dave Morton <Marspyrs@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 06:01:52 EDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 11:13:17 -0400
Subject: Abductee Fear


I too would like to thank John Velez for his very moving and
absorbing posts on "alien abduction". Thank you very much, John.

In years past, I had a hard time relating to the fear alleged
abductees had around the subject. I have a friend (Mary) who has
very light scars (like laser surgery) and vague memories from
childhood on this subject, but reaches a certain point and
refuses to discuss the subject further - even to the point of
becoming physically ill if taken too far. I even wrote to Budd
Hopkins about her, and later spoke with him about the case,
briefly. But I could never relate to the "wall of terror" which
some people have - at least until they become more comfortable
with the subject.

That changed a bit for me about 10 or 15 years ago. I used to
attend monthly MUFON meetings, and had met a fellow who thought
he might have been abducted, but wasn't sure. (He had a few
vivid memories and a few vague ones, but thought perhaps he'd
dreamt some of it - possibly all of it...). He was exploring it
via hypnosis through a psychologist.

However, he mentioned one day that while he was changing clothes
at home, a few weeks earlier, his girlfriend had let out a
scream, and asked him what the marks were on the back of his
legs. He asked, What marks? She said he had huge black and blue
marks on the back of his thighs which looked like long fingers,
or something. He checked in a full-length mirror, and sure
enough: There they were, and he had no explanation for them.  I
asked him if he'd been sitting on radiators, or a different
chair, etc, etc. He answered No in all cases. He was a graphics
artist who sat at a desk and used the computer all day (I later
visted his workplace). He said his girlfriend took a Polaroid
picture of the marks a few days later, at his request.

I asked him if I could see the picture. Could he bring it to the
next meeting. Yes... He forgot to bring it, then he forgot again
at the next meeting... Finally, he remembered to bring it and
showed it to me.

That is the first and only time I've been frightened about this
subject. There were the bruise marks as he said: Like long
fingers on the back of his thighs, as if some people had lifted
him up with such force that they'd left bruise marks. At that
moment, the subject transformed itself from "fascinating, but
distant" to "immediate and frightening"; from "documented in
books" to "real". (He had no scoop marks.) You can't hold an
original, Polaroid picture like that in your hands and not be
affected by it - especially when the subject is standing right
in front of you...

So, for what it's worth, I can now more easily relate to the
fear and anxiety of many abductees. If the ET's came in peace,
explained their mission, asked permission of their subjects,
didn't erase memories and scoop out samples of homo sapien flesh
(in some cases), and didn't "stare" at their subjects up close,
I think it would be FAR less frightening.

Dave Morton







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              Re: Alien Abductors Just Being Friendly - Meiners

From: Jean Meiners <legalco2002@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 06:32:21 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 11:18:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Abductors Just Being Friendly - Meiners


 >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 02:31:07 +0200
 >Subject: Alien Abductors Just Being Friendly

 >Source: Calgary Herald

http://www.canada.com/calgary/story.asp?id=0621D492-4268-41F9-83B1-015E05B6CDEE

 >Stig

 >***

 >Aliens just being friendly

 >Bring message of hope, says researcher

 >The Canadian Press

 >Monday, September 30, 2002

 >**

<snip>


Maybe if these researchers had undergone an abduction or two or
three or a lifetime like so many abductees they wouldn't be so
swift to say that these "affable" visitors are so affable; or,
that these "friendly" visitors are so friendly.

Possibly these "affable" and "friendly" visitors just wish for
us to think that they are. The best invasion is one where the
people think you are their saviour, their benefactor, their
"friend". That way they have no defense... we wouldn't need
to.

After everything I have read here on this List, after everything
I have read on other Lists of this type, and most definitely
after everything I have seen, undergone, witnessed, I prefer to
keep my hands behind my back instead of out in front of me
welcoming these "affable friends".

My hands _and_ my mind may be the only thing left to me when
they are done.

An "affable friendly" invasion is still an invasion.


Jean

"Been there, done that and wouldn't wish it on my
worst enemy!"







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   Oct > Oct 1

                             Re: Symbols - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 15:21:14 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 13:51:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Symbols - Hall


 >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 11:40:08 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Symbols

 >>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 11:12:23 EDT
 >>Subject: Re: Symbols

 >>>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
 >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 16:23:12 -0700
 >>>Subject: Re: Symbols

 >>Good Morning, Jim, List -

 >>>Corder later
 >>>proved himself to be a fraud, and in fact even lost his medical
 >>>license.

 >>Why should that disqualify him from UFO research? How many
 >>people have been exposed as liars, frauds, charlatans only to
 >>reappear and be accepted? The list is long and really rather
 >>disgusting.

 >>KRandle

 >Kevin:

 >The sad thing is that I had to parse your message several times,
 >and remind myself who you were, before I was certain you were
 >being facetious. A sad statement indeed on the state of
 >You-Fool-ogy.

 >==JJS==

Jim,

I don't think Kevin is being facetious; sarcastic maybe.

He is absolutely right that too many U-fool-ogists embrace and
apologise for proven frauds and con-men. This is extremely
harmful to the field.

Kevin is a very admirable exemplar for us.

Just about the only thing I disagree with him about is the
abduction phenomenon, and his views there are sincerely offered
and worthy of consideration. He is just about always fair-minded
and temperate in his comments, and honest in his conclusions.

Altogether a rather rare bird in a field too often dominated by
turkeys.


  - Dick









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                             Re: Symbols - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 13:25:31 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 14:04:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Symbols - Velez


 >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 20:54:31 +0000
 >Subject: Re: Symbols

 >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 13:10:13 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: Symbols

 >>>From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com>
 >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 17:39:18 -0400
 >>>Subject: Re: Symbols

 >>I'm hoping that the final outcome of these discussions is that
 >>those samples manage to get into the hands of someone who can
 >>get them to the 'best' experts and have them properly studied
 >>and analysed.

 >>>About Stuart Appelle. I don't think he's likely to get involved
 >>>in this research, for the simple reason that it's not his field.
 >>>He's a psychologist (I don't know what his specialty in
 >>>psychology might be, but I see from his university's website
 >>>that he's now an associate dean). I'm not sure what speciality
 >>>you'd need to analyze purported alien writing, but I can imagine
 >>>that linguists and cryptographers might be helpful.

 >>Then (rightfully) linguists and cryptographers should have them!
 >>I wouldn't know where to begin Greg.

 >>Where does one find 'linguists and cryptographers'?

 >>The process after that is 'simple.' (ha,ha.) Budd and David have
 >>to consent to the transfer of their material, authorize Stuart
 >>to transfer it, then Stuart has to make sure the physical
 >>documents get transferred.

 >>Piece of cake eh?  <LMAO>

 >>>In any case, Stuart never said he'd study the material himself.
 >>>In his capacity as the editor of the Journal of UFO Studies, he
 >>>said he'd try to find qualified people to make the study, and
 >>>would publish their findings. I don't think he can help us
 >>>himself.

 >>I need help here Greg. If this thing isn't actively (and I think
 >>publicly) pursued, it will _never_ get done. I can't do it
 >>alone.

 >>(Maybe) if you would be willing to act as an intermediary/
 >>contact with Budd and David, make the proposal, and (hopefully)
 >>secure their permission, I'll talk to Dick Hall and he and I can
 >>concentrate on contacting a few universities to see if we can
 >>track down volunteer 'linguists and cryptographers.'

 >>Dick, are you listening?

You wrote:

 >John,

Hi Dick,

 >My only problem with this is, what is there for language and
 >code experts to study if they are truly alien language/writings?
 >They would have nothing to compare it with; no precedents for
 >figuring out its meaning.

Hmmm, well right out of the box, I never thought that finding
out the 'meaning' of the drawings was ever on the agenda. I am
curious to find out what experts think of the similarity of the
samples. That and the fact that they were obtained from a
diverse group of individuals that had never met previously.

 >The best that could be expected is an argument of the reductio
 >ad absurdum type: These sure ain't human language!

 >The best argument for possible alien origin, as you and Greg
 >have stated, is that so many people have independently come up
 >with the same markings/writings. Then it becomes a matter of
 >devising an experiment whereby 'known' abductees (a problem in
 >itself) submit their renderings independently to an impartial
 >judging panel of some kind, which could then pass judgment on
 >how consistent or inconsistent the markings/wriitngs are.

You brought up another problem! The fact that after 20-30 years
of 'alleged' research into the subject of abduction, that no
(broadly accepted or agreed upon) set of criteria for the
determination of what elements comprise a case of UFO abduction
has ever been adopted by the very people conducting the
'alleged' research.

I would have thought that, by this time, that very _basic_ piece
of business would have been taken care of. The closest thing we
have to a set of useable 'criteria' is the papers on abduction
and abductees that Stuart Appelle & co. published some ten+
years ago. It is rarely if ever quoted or mentioned. Yet no
other published set of criteria exists any where.

 >Like everything else in this field, nothing is easy.

Greg says pursuing Stuart Appelle is probably a dead end. I
don't know what more to say other than I am disappointed.
Everybody seems to agree that this is important material and
that it is an important matter. No one seems to know 'how' to
get the job of having these things studied by experts executed
though.

I also can't figure out why guys Like Budd and David et al. are
not pooling and then presenting their 'evidence' them selves.
Especially Mack and Jacobs that both come from strong academic
backgrounds. Along with the invaluable service they provide for
the abductees, there is an element of neglect in terms of
presenting the data for independent analysis and evaluation.
That business about them being adverse to criticism from
skeptics and others just doesn't cut the mustard with me. But
then, I'm on the inside looking out.

Frustrating, just plain frustrating. It's the kind of thing that
makes me want to throw my hands up and walk away from the whole
mess. If _nothing_ is ever going to get done, why the hell am I
wasting my life and my time.

I'm a computer savvy graphic artist. I could be making serious
money with the countless hours that I dedicate to 'ufology'. If
I have to _pay_ to be here, it would be nice to see something
accomplished from time to time.

Otherwise it's all just so much 'rap'.


My best,

John

Sign the International Petition to the United Nations
for disclosure of information pertaining to UFOs.

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition








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   Oct > Oct 1

                  C.A. Honey & Alien Structures On The Moon

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 13:38:32 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 14:07:53 -0400
Subject: C.A. Honey & Alien Structures On The Moon


Hi everyone!

On September 21, C.A. Honey was one of Errol's guests on his
'Strange Days... Indeed' radio program about UFOs (episode 207).
Honey was a ghost writer for the famous abductee, George
Adamski.

On this program Honey mentioned about certain photos he was able
to obtain directly from NASA that apparently show alien mining
or construction activity on the Moon. These NASA photos were the
same ones which were published in a book whose title Honey could
not remember.

Having read a book which contained photos of alleged past or
present ET activity on the Moon, could this book, 'Somebody Else
Is on the Moon' by George Leonard (McKay, 1976), be the one
Honey used to order his own pictures from NASA?

Maybe I do not have as much of an imagination as others but I
was not convinced with any of the lunar images Leonard presented
in his book as being evidence of ET activity on the Moon. That
said, I would like to say that there is other much more
convincing evidence, much supported by actual published
scientific findings by NASA, in support of the case for ET
activity on the Moon. In fact, the scientific evidence presented
in another book, 'Secrets of Our Spaceship Moon' by Don Wilson
(Dell, 1979) presents a much stronger case for not only ET
activity on the Moon but that our Moon may even be a
manufactured alien spacecraft or giant UFO!

Last Friday I presented some of this evidence from Wilson's book
on 'Cosmic Horizons', a new show on York University (Glendon
College) radio. The show was well received and it encouraged
further discussions as I had hoped it would.

I would be very interested in reading your views in support of
or against the claim that our Moon is really an giant artificial
ET artifact.


Nick Balaskas








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                            Re: Symbols - Speiser

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 10:56:57 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 17:42:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Symbols - Speiser


 >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 15:21:14 +0000
 >Subject: Re: Symbols

 >>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 11:40:08 -0700
 >>Subject: Re: Symbols

 >>>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 11:12:23 EDT
 >>>Subject: Re: Symbols

 >>>>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
 >>>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>>Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 16:23:12 -0700
 >>>>Subject: Re: Symbols

 >>>Good Morning, Jim, List -

 >>>>Corder later
 >>>>proved himself to be a fraud, and in fact even lost his medical
 >>>>license.

 >>>Why should that disqualify him from UFO research? How many
 >>>people have been exposed as liars, frauds, charlatans only to
 >>>reappear and be accepted? The list is long and really rather
 >>>disgusting.

 >>The sad thing is that I had to parse your message several times,
 >>and remind myself who you were, before I was certain you were
 >>being facetious. A sad statement indeed on the state of
 >>You-Fool-ogy.

 >I don't think Kevin is being facetious; sarcastic maybe.

I was referring mainly to his first sentence. Sadly, there are
some in this field who don't think a little thing like being a
proven fraud should disqualify one from being a Ufologist, so I
had to think twice.

 >He is absolutely right that too many U-fool-ogists embrace and
 >apologise for proven frauds and con-men. This is extremely
 >harmful to the field.

Amen.

 >Kevin is a very admirable exemplar for us.

Amen Amen.

 >Just about the only thing I disagree with him about is the
 >abduction phenomenon, and his views there are sincerely offered
 >and worthy of consideration. He is just about always fair-minded
 >and temperate in his comments, and honest in his conclusions.

I have not read his views, but I can understand where he's
coming from.

 >Altogether a rather rare bird in a field too often dominated by
 >turkeys.

...and pelicans?

==JJS==








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               Re: C.A. Honey & Alien Structures On The Moon -

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 11:41:06 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 17:46:25 -0400
Subject: Re:  C.A. Honey & Alien Structures On The Moon -


 >From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 13:38:32 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
 >Subject: C.A. Honey & Alien Structures On The Moon

 >I would be very interested in reading your views in support of
 >or against the claim that our Moon is really an giant artificial
 >ET artifact.


And you say you don't have as rich an imagination as others!
Really, such humility is unbecoming, Nick.

==JJS==








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                             Re: Symbols - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 19:09:44 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 17:48:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Symbols - Hall


 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 13:25:31 -0400
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Subject: Re: Symbols

 >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 20:54:31 +0000
 >>Subject: Re: Symbols

 >You wrote:

 >>John,

 >Hi Dick,

 >>My only problem with this is, what is there for language and
 >>code experts to study if they are truly alien language/writings?
 >>They would have nothing to compare it with; no precedents for
 >>figuring out its meaning.

 >Hmmm, well right out of the box, I never thought that finding
 >out the 'meaning' of the drawings was ever on the agenda. I am
 >curious to find out what experts think of the similarity of the
 >samples. That and the fact that they were obtained from a
 >diverse group of individuals that had never met previously.

 >>The best that could be expected is an argument of the reductio
 >>ad absurdum type: These sure ain't human language!

 >>The best argument for possible alien origin, as you and Greg
 >>have stated, is that so many people have independently come up
 >>with the same markings/writings. Then it becomes a matter of
 >>devising an experiment whereby 'known' abductees (a problem in
 >>itself) submit their renderings independently to an impartial
 >>judging panel of some kind, which could then pass judgment on
 >>how consistent or inconsistent the markings/wriitngs are.

 >You brought up another problem! The fact that after 20-30 years
 >of 'alleged' research into the subject of abduction, that no
 >(broadly accepted or agreed upon) set of criteria for the
 >determination of what elements comprise a case of UFO abduction
 >has ever been adopted by the very people conducting the
 >'alleged' research.

 >I would have thought that, by this time, that very _basic_ piece
 >of business would have been taken care of. The closest thing we
 >have to a set of useable 'criteria' is the papers on abduction
 >and abductees that Stuart Appelle & co. published some ten+
 >years ago. It is rarely if ever quoted or mentioned. Yet no
 >other published set of criteria exists any where.

 >>Like everything else in this field, nothing is easy.

 >Greg says pursuing Stuart Appelle is probably a dead end. I
 >don't know what more to say other than I am disappointed.
 >Everybody seems to agree that this is important material and
 >that it is an important matter. No one seems to know 'how' to
 >get the job of having these things studied by experts executed
 >though.

 >I also can't figure out why guys Like Budd and David et al. are
 >not pooling and then presenting their 'evidence' them selves.
 >Especially Mack and Jacobs that both come from strong academic
 >backgrounds. Along with the invaluable service they provide for
 >the abductees, there is an element of neglect in terms of
 >presenting the data for independent analysis and evaluation.
 >That business about them being adverse to criticism from
 >skeptics and others just doesn't cut the mustard with me. But
 >then, I'm on the inside looking out.

 >Frustrating, just plain frustrating. It's the kind of thing that
 >makes me want to throw my hands up and walk away from the whole
 >mess. If _nothing_ is ever going to get done, why the hell am I
 >wasting my life and my time.

 >I'm a computer savvy graphic artist. I could be making serious
 >money with the countless hours that I dedicate to 'ufology'. If
 >I have to _pay_ to be here, it would be nice to see something
 >accomplished from time to time.

 >Otherwise it's all just so much 'rap'.


John,

I didn't mean to sound a discouraging note, nor am I saying that
nothing can be done. I'm just saying that first you have to ask
the right questions. Just the philosopher in me talking. (:

What I was trying to say (or ask) was, what would or could be
accomplished by having linguists and cryptographers look at
these writings/markings? I am also skeptical of "databases" the
elements of which are of uncertain origin and whose criteria for
selection are unstated; do we count the shoe symbols on
Adamksi's Venusian? These are methodological/philosophical
issues.

If the issue (question) is how to determine consistency of
abductee drawings from hundreds of independent sources, that
doesn't take language experts! I suggested one means of
establishing the consistency which many of us already know
exists. If the issue is trying to demonstrate some intelligence
or logic behind the writings that would tell us something about
the aliens, then maybe linguists and cryptoanalysts would have
something to offer, though I have trouble imagining a good
experiment in that line. It is up to the proponents of any
suggested line of research like these to suggest meaningful ways
of going about them.

I have met abductees ranging from poor, blue collar, uneducated
to wealthy, highly educated, and sophisticated, and all stages
in between. You, John, are one of the most articulate of all.
Your contributions may be having a greater effect than you
realize. So don't despair. There's more than one way to skin an
alien.

  - Regards, Dick









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                         Re: Abductee Fear - Meiners

From: Jean Meiners <legalco2002@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 12:50:38 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 17:52:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Abductee Fear - Meiners


 >From: Dave Morton <Marspyrs@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 06:01:52 EDT
 >Subject: Abductee Fear

 >I too would like to thank John Velez for his very moving and
 >absorbing posts on "alien abduction". Thank you very much, John.

<snip>

 >So, for what it's worth, I can now more easily relate to the
 >fear and anxiety of many abductees. If the ET's came in peace,
 >explained their mission, asked permission of their subjects,
 >didn't erase memories and scoop out samples of homo sapien flesh
 >(in some cases), and didn't "stare" at their subjects up close,
 >I think it would be FAR less frightening.


I agree with Mr. Morton... but, I most definitely wouldn't
volunteer. There has been too much involuntarily, thank you.

Jean








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                           Re: Symbols - Straight

From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 14:49:37 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 17:59:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Symbols - Straight


 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 13:10:13 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Symbols

<snip>

 >Then (rightfully) linguists and cryptographers should have them!
 >I wouldn't know where to begin Greg.

 >Where does one find 'linguists and cryptographers'?

If we assume, for the sake of argument, that such symbols are
'truly' alien, and meant to communicate solely to other aliens
from the same culture, then linguists and cryptographers will be
virtually useless.

Egyptian hieroglyphs were untranslatable until the Rosetta Stone
was found--and this symbology arose from a culture that shared
our common humanity and commemorated human experinces in their
writings. "Alien" symbols and glyphs, by their very nature will
probably remain enigmatic.


Brian








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               Re: C.A. Honey & Alien Structures On The Moon -

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 15:47:54 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 19:07:11 -0400
Subject: Re: C.A. Honey & Alien Structures On The Moon -



 >From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 13:38:32 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
 >Subject: C.A. Honey & Alien Structures On The Moon

 >On September 21, C.A. Honey was one of Errol's guests on his
 >'Strange Days... Indeed' radio program about UFOs (episode 207).
 >Honey was a ghost writer for the famous abductee, George
 >Adamski.

My word. Adamski was no abductee. He was one of the original and
most influential contactees. There is a distinction both
socially and experientially that serves no one's interest to
treat cavalierly. It is true that at some points, on occasion,
abduction experience and contact claim may overlap, but
differences are fundamental. The two kinds of phenomena also
have separate histories. I have written extensively on both

Anyone still not sure of the difference should read, say,
Adamski's Inside The Space Ships and follow it with, for
example, a book by Budd Hopkins.


Jerry Clark








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                          Re: Abductee Fear - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 16:12:26 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 19:05:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Abductee Fear - Velez


 >From: Dave Morton <Marspyrs@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 06:01:52 EDT
 >Subject: Abductee Fear

Hi Dave,

You wrote:

 >I too would like to thank John Velez for his very moving and
 >absorbing posts on "alien abduction". Thank you very much, John.

You're welcome. :) Honest, I try hard to make good use of the
bandwidth that EBK so generously grants us.

 >In years past, I had a hard time relating to the fear alleged
 >abductees had around the subject.

<snip>

 >So, for what it's worth, I can now more easily relate to the
 >fear and anxiety of many abductees. If the ET's came in peace,
 >explained their mission, asked permission of their subjects,
 >didn't erase memories and scoop out samples of homo sapien flesh
 >(in some cases), and didn't "stare" at their subjects up close,
 >I think it would be FAR less frightening.

I wouldn't trust anybody who isn't frightened half out of their
wits at the mere thought that they are 'actually' involved in
something like this.

It wouldn't be 'normal'!  :)

Regards,

John Velez

Sign the International Petition to the United Nations
for disclosure of information pertaining to UFOs.

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition








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                 Swann, Maccabee, Jacobs, & Others To Speak

From: George Hansen <gphansen2001@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 13:56:21 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 19:09:30 -0400
Subject: Swann, Maccabee, Jacobs, & Others To Speak


Ingo Swann, who trained the U.S. government's psychic spies,
will be speaking on UFOs and remote viewing in Bordentown, New
Jersey at The Great UFO & Earth Mysteries Congress on October
12 & 13, 2002.

Other presenters include:

Bruce Maccabee         David Jacobs
Tom Van Flandern       James Moseley
Daniel Cohen           Jayne Howard
Chris Styles           White Eagle

Details are at:

http://www.drufo.org


George P. Hansen




=====

The Trickster and the Paranormal

http://www.tricksterbook.com







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                       'X' Marks The Mysterious Planet

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 19:50:29 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 19:50:29 -0400
Subject: 'X' Marks The Mysterious Planet

http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/mld/ledgerenquirer/news/local/4179150.htm


Posted on Mon, Sep. 30, 2002

'X' Marks The Mysterious Planet
By Carole Rutland
Special to the Ledger-Enquirer

Now you see it, now you don't!

It's the case of the missing planet, and it all started with a
nagging suspicion that everything was not quite right with the
orbital motions of some of the outer planets. Dubbed Planet X by
some scientists, its existence has been speculated because of
something called "perturbations."

Where did the idea originate?

Over the course of the past couple hundred years, evidence has
crept in and out of scientists' observational data hinting that
a massive planet or several small planet-like objects might
exist beyond Pluto. (Remember that early scientists accurately
predicted through mathematical evidence the existence of Uranus,
then Neptune and finally Pluto).

But to understand this modern day search for Planet X, we
probably need to go back a bit and examine the "outward signs"
collected before and after Pluto's discovery.

Information is sketchy at best but, some claim ancient Sumerian
records exist from as long ago as 6,000 years with a description
of our solar system which includes a 10th planet called Nibiro.
That was pretty nifty predicting, considering we didn't even
discover Uranus until 1781 while Neptune and Pluto discoveries
came later still.

Where were the clues?

With the advent of better and more accurate techniques for
measuring the orbits of planets, astronomers and sky-watchers
began collecting the hard evidence some 200 years ago. During
this time Uranus was discovered, then Neptune in 1846, leading
many to believe other planets remained beyond.

Between 1810 and 1910, techniques for measuring planetary orbits
improved; it was during this 100-year period that signs were
found of unexplained motions and discrepancies in the orbits of
Uranus and Neptune, lending support to the theory that a massive
and more distant celestial object existed in their vicinity. But
the discovery of Pluto in 1930 didn't completely solve the
mystery. We knew how the planets were supposed to behave based
on the information we had already collected about them, even
during this early time in astronomical history.

We make predictions about where the planets will be at any given
time based on what we know about their motions, and it turned
out that Pluto wasn't big enough to account for all the observed
tugging and pulling seen in the orbits of Neptune and Uranus.

This was good enough to give some astronomers just cause to
search for another planet, a 10th planet in our solar system,
Planet X.

The skeptics

But not everyone is buying into this idea of a mystery planet.
Even though most scientists agree there may be more than nine
planets in our solar system, they lean more toward smaller
celestial bodies like Chiron, a small 200-kilometer body which
orbits between Saturn and Uranus.

Another solution being considered is the Kuiper Belt of small
icy bodies (about the size of asteroids) confirmed in 1992. Many
think it may represent the extra unaccounted-for mass beyond the
orbit of Neptune. The Kuiper Belt lies about 50,000 times
farther from the sun than Earth.

In addition, skeptics further argue that many of the previous
observations may have been faulty. Even tiny miscalculations
would throw off the results and the predicted planetary motions.

Unfortunately, even the Pioneer 10 and 11 flybys (launched
during the '70s) did not offer any supporting data. No strange
perturbations were recorded by either spacecraft which Planet X
should have exhibited on the Pioneers had it been there.

On the other hand, maybe Planet X wasn't in the right place at
the right time.

Scientists leaning toward the existence of Planet X argue that a
larger planetary body in a highly elliptical orbit may take
seven to nine lifetimes to complete one orbit. Planet X could go
undetected if it travels in a highly elliptical orbit at nearly
right angles to the orbits of the nine known planets. This orbit
could be so elongated that the unknown planet circles only every
700 to 1,000 years.

So far no one has discovered Planet X, but the search goes on
and many eyes are counting on its discovery.

Even so, isn't it ironic that as we continue to search for the
primordial scream of our beginnings back some 13 to 15 billion
years ago -- we still don't know what's in our own backyard?
It's no wonder that kids will always love planets and stars.
It's their playground of exploration and a sure way to discover
things that no one else has ever touched or seen.


Carole Rutland is executive director of the Columbus State
University Coca-Cola Space Science Center.


-----

UFO UpDates thanks www.theanomalist.com for the lead







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               Re: Mexico City Aug. 6, 1997 Stabilized Video -

From: Tom King <tomking2030@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 23:38:15 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 07:47:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexico City Aug. 6, 1997 Stabilized Video -


 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 09:28:32 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Mexico City Aug. 6, 1997 Stabilized Video

 >>From: Tom King <tomking2030@hotmail.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 17:43:21 +0000
 >>Subject: Re: Mexico City Aug. 6, 1997 Stabilized Video

 >>>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>>Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 10:31:21 -0400
 >>>>Subject: Re: Mexico City Aug. 6, 1997 Stabilized Video

 ><snip>

 >(Note: if you want to skip the discussion and jump right to the
 >good stuff, see the note at the bottom of end of this message.
 >Then if you are still interested, read the discussion below.)

 >>>>>I know Jeff Sanio dismissed the entire event because of a couple
 >>>>>of out-of-focus stills with the saucer and the building. I saw
 >>>>>those stills when I hand stabilized the video. I noticed the
 >>>>>background was also out of focus along with the saucer and it
 >>>>>didn't seem out of place. However I dismissed Jeff's analysis as
 >>>>>being mistaken since he didn't explain the eyewitnesses.

 >>>>>Take a look yourself and make your own conclusions.

 >>>>Sainio also made a stabilized video, back in 1998.

 ><snip>

 >>Where is his stabilized video? Did you see it? Any chance MUFON
 >>would release it on the web?

 >You would have to contact him directly for a copy.

 >>>>It wasn't a problem with focus that Sainio discovered, it was a
 >>>>problem of "differential image smear". Specifically, the UFO
 >>>>image was never or almost never smeared by random camera motion
 >>>>while the building edges were almost always smeared, at least a
 >>>>small amount.

 >>>>Sainio looked at the differential smear throughout the whole
 >>>>video and found that, on the average, the building images were
 >>>>smeared more than the UFO image. There are a couple of frames
 >>>>near the beginning where the differential smear is obvious: the
 >>>>edge of the building and the small wind sock on top of the
 >>>>building (yes, windsocks on the buildings) are very blurred but
 >>>>the UFO image is not. This occurs as the UFO moves toward the
 >>>>right, approaching the left edge of the first building.>

 >>>>The image of the edge of the building suddenly moves
 >>>>from one frame to the next, blurring the image of the top edge
 >>>>of the building and the image of the wind sock , while the image
 >>>>of the UFO (the edges of the image) remain unblurred.

 >>>>If the UFO were a real object "out there" beyond the building,
 >>>>this differential blur could occur only if the UFO suddenly
 >>>>moved with the random motion of the camera in such a way as to
 >>>>remain at the same location in the field of view of the camera
 >>>>even though the building image changed its position. That is,
 >>>>the UFO would have to track the motion of the camera. And this
 >>>>is in the time of one frame, 1/30 sec. Actually, in less than
 >>>>the time of one frame the UFO would have had to "jump" downwards
 >>>>many feet (I don't recall the exact number) and then back up
 >>>>again in the next frame because there is no differential image
 >>>>smear in the frame following.>

 >>>>As I recall there wre two frames which show this very obvious
 >>>>differential smear. But Sainio studied all the frames and found
 >>>>that the building image smear was almost always greater than the
 >>>>UFO image smear.

 ><snip>

 >>>What exactly is this so-called "differential smear"? Is there an
 >>>equation for this smear or is it something Jeff just made up for
 >>>this case? Can "differential smear" be applied to conventional
 >>>videos, for testing. Is "differential smear" science or merely
 >>>one's opinion?

 >In this particular case (can be generalized to other cases) a real
 >object "out there" has its horizontal edge smeared by vertical
 >motion of the camera. Without motion the "edge width" was a value
 >that depends upon the quality of focus.

 >One can quantify the amount of "smear " or "blur" of the edge in
 >terms of the "edge gradient" as follows. First measure the
 >brightness level of the building image at a position close, _but
 >not within_, to the visual edge. Next measure the brightness of
 >the sky image close to _but not within_, the visual edge. A line
 >drawn between these two measurement points should be
 >perpendiculat to the visual edge. Now measure the length of this
 >line between these two brightness measurements.

 >Finally, divide the brightness difference, sky brightness minus
 >building brightness, by the distance between the measurements.
 >This ratio, brightness difference divided by distance, is a
 >measure of the "edge gradient" with units "relative brightness
 >per unit length".

 >When the image is sharply focused the spacing distance between
 >the measurement locations is as small as possible (but not zero;
 >no image has perfectly sharp edges because of aberrations in the
 >optics and, ultimately, diffraction of the light). Defocus
 >increases the distance between points where the brightness
 >values should be made. In other words, defocus makes the edge
 >wider, and hence the edge gradient becomes a smaller value
 >because you are dividing a fixed brightness difference by a
 >larger spacing between measurements (the brightness levels are
 >assume to remain the same, only the "width of the egde"
 >increases).

 >Motion smear also decreases the edge gradient by increasing the
 >width of the edge or the distance between measurement positions.
 >One major difference between motion smear and defocus is that
 >motion smear is non-symmetric, i.e., the amount of smear on a
 >particular image edge depends upon the direction of motion,
 >whereas focus smear (assuming low astigmatism for good
 >optics) is symmetric: all edges are blurred by the same amount.
 >Thus, with focus blur, the edge gradient for a dark object against
 >the sky woudl be the same for all edges, whereas for motion
 >smear the edge gradient would be lower for edges which are
 >perpendicular to the direction of image motion.

 >In the case of this video one can easily see the motion from frame
 >to frame. In a few cases the image shift distance is quite large,
 >causing a considerable non-symmetric variation in edge gradient,
 >for example the horizontal edge gradient vs the vertical edge
 >gradient for the building edges.

 >Based on the above definition of edge gradient, Sainio's results
 >could be characterized as follows. He had a special computer
 >program calculate gradients for vertical and horizontal edges
 >for each frame and keeping track of the motion from frame to
 >frame of the building and UFO images. He found that the average
 >edge gradients for the building images were less than the
 >gradients for the UFO image. In other words the UFO motion smear
 >was less than the building smear. This is the "differential
 >smear" I referred to.

 >This is visually obvious in a couple of frames presented on my
 >web site"

 >http://brumac.8k.com/


Bruce,

Thanks so much for taking time to answer everything I asked!
Instead of us talking about Sanio's work why don't he join this
discussion himself. He has a bunch of computer equipment and
tons of UFO tapes people send MUFON. No E-Mail address, or is he
a lurker on this List?

I went to your great website and looked at the pic of the Mexico
differential smear as you guys call it. I really can't see what
you guys are seeing. The images are cropped so you can't see the
buildings below the disc. It would be more helpful to see the
buildings.

I will be looking closely for these alleged differential smear
images and know the video well so I find and post them full
screen on my website soon.

 >>>>The differential smear (and also the image jump referred to by
 >>>>King) introduced an artifact that could not be explained unless
 >>>>one assumed that the UFO tracked the random hand vibration of
 >>>>the camera and moved in a rapid, jerky motion just enough to
 >>>>have its image remain unsmeared throughout the video.

 >>>>This seemed highly unlikely for the apparently smoothly moving
 >>>>(and rotating) object and so Sainio and I have considered this
 >>>>differential smear to be the 'fingerprints of a hoax'.

 >>>>Of course, we cannot explain the witness reports. We just wonder
 >>>>if there is really any connection.

 >>In that last sentence you imply the Mexican eyewitnesses are
 >>liars. So, the little girl who told her dad about this sighting
 >>is lying? Her dad and the resturant operator too?

 >It is important to realize that the conclusion of "fingerprints
 >of a hoax" is based on the analysis of the video. Anyone who
 >wants to connect the video with the visual sighting must figure
 >out how to explain the "fingerprints."

<snip>

Thats if they are "fingerprints of a hoax". None of this has not
been proven as fact yet. Just an interesting theory Jeff and you
came up with to explain 2 images. Another "independent" party
will be need to verify your theory to test it.

 >Note, by the way, for
 >those who have forgotten, the video was shown on TV over a month
 >after the event and that led to some people contacting Jaime
 >Maussan. Also, so far as I know. the videographer is not known.

Yes that is true. The video was broadcast a month later. I
believe there was a lady who claimed the disc harmed her health
during the sighting. She was on one of those tv shows. Her
medical records dating before the tape aired would help validate
the sighting.

The News often broadcasts crime videos such as bank robberies on
TV hoping the public can help solve the case. Later on most
criminals are busted because the public helps by providing
clues. Did the News broadcast taint the eyewitnesses? No, it
helped the case. Did the news question the intergrity of the
witnesses? No.

What you're citing is a double standard and thats not good
enough to dismiss this case. If those methods are good enough to
lock people up in prison those same techniques should be good
enough to know if a disc was in the sky at a certain day and
time.

 >>The alleged "differential smear" could be caused by several
 >>different factors:

 >>1. What generation video was Sanio using? 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th?

 >SO far as I know it was a direct copy from Maussan's master copy
 >(made from the original)

Perhaps, but from what I'm believe you're mistaken.

I was told Sanio never asked for a good copy, or Jaime's master,
or Lee's (copy). Were exactly did Jeff Sanio obtain his copy?

Here is a basic flow chart for people following this debate.

[orginal video]-->[Jamie]---->[Lee Elders]-->[Jeff Sanio???]
[Master]--------->[1st gen]-->[2nd gen]----->[3rd gen]

So its easy to see that Jeff very well could have worked off
4th-6th generation. If thats the case then you'll definately
get noise in the video that could interfere with what you guys
performed.

 >>2. Capture methods can cause artifacts depending on how the
 >>video was digitized.

 >Yes, but in the most obvious examples of the differential smear
 >one needs only to look frame by frame at the video copy....
 >no digitisation needed.

 >>3. Was the video de-interlaced or used interlaced.

 >Don't know. Doesn't matter in this case.

Oh, I'm afraid it does matter in this case. I don't know what
your experience is with stabilizing videos but its foolish to
use regular interlaced video to stabilize. Especially using
video capture technology back in 1997-99 era.

Interlaced video can provide some blurry pixels when looking at
still frames. This randomly happens thru out the video and is
only noticable to the naked eye when viewing still frames. In
order to stabilize the video you'll need to de-interlace the
video and pick either A frame or B frame. By doing so you end up
with a cleaner copy to stabilize otherwise you'll probably get
alot of mistakes and it won't stabilize properly.

If Jeff stabilized the video without de-interlacing then ya that
probably explains the problem he had with blur and smear.

How did the alleged differential smear play into de-interlaced
video? I bet this part wasn't looked into.

Since Jeff was the hatchet man of this video it would be helpful
if he could E-mail, fax, phone, write you so he can post on this
List to clear up what exactly he did to this video.

 >>4. The "differential smear" could be nothing more than the old
 >>rivarly of MUFON vs Elders?

 >It turns out that we were working "with" the Elders at the time
 >since they were providing us with information on witnesses,
 >locations , distances, building sizes, etc. The discovery of the
 >"fingerprints" was a distinct bummer after all the time we had
 >put into this.

 >>I respect Jeff's and your work but I don't hold his opinion as
 >>gospel. The hoax theory, based upon the alleged "differential
 >>smear", is merely Jeff's opinion.

 >Mine, too. Only a very "special" situation can explain the
 >differential smear while preserving the "real UFO out there"
 >hypothesis., namely that the UFO "panned itself" with the camera
 >motion.

 >>When one considers the past
 >>bad-blood between Walt Andrus and Lee Elder over rights of the
 >>Billy Meier case and the 1991-95 daytime videos embarassments.
 >>MUFON's credibility is called into question in light of the fact
 >>that MUFON has systematically debunked everything Elder
 >>investigated. Then you have to take into account the lack of
 >>information on MUFON websites - information that they don't
 >>publish.

 >Sainio's analysis was published in the MUFON Journal in October
 >of 1998 (I had published a rather favorable article in early
 >1998 before the fingerprints were discovered.)

 >>The public has not recieved a definative answer to this case
 >>from any organization. I have a slightly better understanding of
 >>analyzing video than most of the public and I don't quite get
 >>this "differential smear". So I bet most of the people who read
 >>this explaination didn't understand it either.

 >>I don't feel the hoax explanation offered on this case is
 >>satisfactory, since it calls all the eyewitnesses liars. None of
 >>us even went to Mexico City to investigate first hand, so what
 >>do we know anyway?

I meant Bruce, Jeff, and myself never went to Mexico City.

 >The Elders were there. I have no doubt that they did a
 >reasonable investigation; So did Hesemann.

 >..................................

 >NOTE:
 >Analysis of two frames in which the differential smear is large is
 >presented at:

 >http://brumac.8k.com

 >scroll down a little to the title Mexity City Video. There you
 >can seen the motion smeared frames (building images smeared, UFO
 >image _not_ smeared) as compared to unsmeared frames (building
 >images and UFO images not smeared). Seeing is believing?


Back to the main topic. Download the video from:

http://www.ufovideo.com/analysis.php

Watch the disc when its next to the building. It jumps up and
down quickly, play this part back frame by frame to bring out
the detail. This is odd behavior for any UFO video faked or not.
Notice the disc doesn't jump left or right. If this video was
faked so well that only screw ups were "differential smear" in 2
frames, why does the disc jump up and down so noticebly? That
implies the placement of the disc is way off the mark of were it
should be. If its a mistake that was overlooked during the
creation of the video it should happen randomly with left and
right jumping. Either the animator did this on purpose or the
video is real. Perhaps its "fingerprints of truth".


Tom King








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   Oct > Oct 2

               Re: C.A. Honey & Alien Structures On The Moon -

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 20:18:37 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 07:49:50 -0400
Subject: Re: C.A. Honey & Alien Structures On The Moon -


 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 15:47:54 -0500
 >Subject: Re: C.A. Honey & Alien Structures On The Moon

 >>From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 13:38:32 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
 >>Subject: C.A. Honey & Alien Structures On The Moon

 >>On September 21, C.A. Honey was one of Errol's guests on his
 >>'Strange Days... Indeed' radio program about UFOs (episode 207).
 >>Honey was a ghost writer for the famous abductee, George
 >>Adamski.

 >My word. Adamski was no abductee. He was one of the original and
 >most influential contactees. There is a distinction both
 >socially and experientially that serves no one's interest to
 >treat cavalierly. It is true that at some points, on occasion,
 >abduction experience and contact claim may overlap, but
 >differences are fundamental. The two kinds of phenomena also
 >have separate histories. I have written extensively on both

<snip>

Hi Jerry!

I'm sorry! I really meant to say contactee but wrote abductee
instead. Thank you for noticing my mistake and clarifying the
obvious differences between the two.

Since we are on this topic, prominent ufological figures such as
Wilbert B. Smith and Dr. Steven M. Greer have also allegedly
made contact with E.T.s through non-direct means (radio waves
and remoting writing by others in the case for Smith and
flashlights for Greer). Would you consider them as contactees
too, or at least a special type?

Getting back to the original theme of my e-mail, what are your
thoughts regarding Don Wilson and his well documented thesis
that our Moon is really a giant UFO? There is certainly a lot
more in support of this case than the Moon being made of green
cheese! "The world is full of obvious things which nobody by any
chance ever observes." Sherlock Holmes once said. Could
ufologists have overlooked something so evident all this time?
Maybe the idea has come up but because it seemed so absurd, we
self-debunked it.


Nick Balaskas









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                           Re: Symbols - Goldstein

From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 03:33:10 +0200
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 07:52:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Symbols - Goldstein


 >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 19:09:44 +0000
 >Subject: Re: Symbols

 >If the issue (question) is how to determine consistency of
 >abductee drawings from hundreds of independent sources, that
 >doesn't take language experts! I suggested one means of
 >establishing the consistency which many of us already know
 >exists. If the issue is trying to demonstrate some intelligence
 >or logic behind the writings that would tell us something about
 >the aliens, then maybe linguists and cryptoanalysts would have
 >something to offer, though I have trouble imagining a good
 >experiment in that line. It is up to the proponents of any
 >suggested line of research like these to suggest meaningful ways
 >of going about them.

 >I have met abductees ranging from poor, blue collar, uneducated
 >to wealthy, highly educated, and sophisticated, and all stages
 >in between. You, John, are one of the most articulate of all.
 >Your contributions may be having a greater effect than you
 >realize. So don't despair. There's more than one way to skin an
 >alien.


Dick,

You have won the Super Prize for the language of surreal
semiotic symbology.

"There's more than one way to skin an alien".

A classic line to further our quest.

It would be a good one for you to use as a title of your
autobiography or someone's biography of your multi-decade quest.

Do any aliens have tattoos?

Back out to my orbit around UFO UpDates.


Good orbits,

Josh










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                                 The Psyche

From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 04:34:49 +0200
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 07:54:37 -0400
Subject: The Psyche


If anyone who read my last post regarding symbols desires to
take a deeper look, I would recommend the following book:

Archetypal Dimensions of the Psyche
by Marie-Louise von Franz

I don't remember the publisher at the moment but the book is in
print, so go to Amazon.com to read about it and to see reviews.

It is fascinating to explore inner space and its various
dimensions while simultaneously exploring outer space, the
mystery of UFOs, and perhaps of outer dimendions in this
holographic and alien universe.

Food for thought, grounds for further research.


Josh










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   Oct > Oct 2

                          Re: Abductee Fear - Acres

From: David Acres <dacres@austarnet.com.au>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 00:57:30 +1000
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 07:58:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Abductee Fear - Acres


 >From: Dave Morton <Marspyrs@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 06:01:52 EDT
 >Subject: Abductee Fear

<snip>

 >So, for what it's worth, I can now more easily relate to the
 >fear and anxiety of many abductees.

Dave, imagine you are Jewish, living in Nazi Germany during WW2!
You are pulled from your bed & are bound, gagged, rendered
helpless! You don't know what they want, you've done nothing!
Are you going to suffer? Will you ever see your family & loved
ones again?

I too, can imagine the shock & horror they must feel upon
conscious realization of abduction!


 >If the ET's came in peace,
 >explained their mission, asked permission of their subjects,
 >didn't erase memories and scoop out samples of homo sapien flesh
 >(in some cases), and didn't "stare" at their subjects up close,
 >I think it would be FAR less frightening.

You raise a good point, they could get all the scoops they
wanted if they just introduced themselves, got government
approval & set up clinics like the blood banks & just paid their
way! ;)

Something I read by, I think, Dr. Karla Wilson?, made me wonder
about the aliens apparent indifference to our feelings, or
ignorance of them! It goes something like this: A long-term woman
abductee who she'd been in therapy with for some time, blurted
out to the aliens; "You know, we retain all of this in our
sub-conscious memories and recall it later under hypnosis!" Well
apparently, the alien boss was very silent and looked as shocked
as an alien can! They reckon you could have heard an anal probe
drop! ;)

A Doctor of medicine, also in Karla's group, later under
regression, recalled being shown a 3D model of a human brain &
was asked by the aliens to show them where the sub-conscious
memory was located!

So I wonder? Have the abduction reports lessened or the attitude
of the aliens changed in recent years? Does anyone out there
know?

BTW I note a reference on John Velez's site, to a Katharina
Wilson, so there's a chance the names may have been confused, by
someone?


Regards,

Dave








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   Oct > Oct 2

                            Re: Symbols - Speiser

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 23:11:31 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 08:01:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Symbols - Speiser


 >From: David Acres <dacres@austarnet.com.au>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 15:59:27 +1000
 >Subject: Re: Symbols

 >>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 21:46:13 -0700
 >>Subject: Re: Symbols

 >>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 04:19:38 -0400
 >>>Subject: Re: Symbols

 ><snip>

 >>Let me preface by saying that I am now and have always been a
 >>sort of benign skeptic on the UFO subject, as I am with all
 >>paranormal and supernatural phenomena. So far, UFOs and maybe
 >>cattle mutilations have my fullest attention, the rest, from
 >>astrology to (crypto)zoology, seems to be a lot of hooey. OK,
 >>MAYBE Bigfoot.

 >Hi Jim! :) I'm a bit like that! But that Canadian show 'PSI
 >Factor' makes me wonder sometimes! It's supposed to be based on
 >the actual case files of the OSIR. How much is fiction? Hard to
 >say as they (OSIR), don't have a website & can't be contacted.
 >They are a group of Scientists & Medicos, who operate soley on
 >referals from other Scientists, Institutions etc. If you
 >consider that regardless of the amount of fiction applied, the
 >actual case file could only be initiated by very bizzare
 >occurrences, there must be some freaky shit out there!

I think I've watched that show maybe once. As to how much is
fiction... I recall a show in the 70's called "Project UFO" that
was supposedly based on actual case files from Project Blue
Book. While I'm not intimately familiar with Blue Book cases,
the episodes seemed a little too 'strained' to be real. And I
believe I read elsewhere that they mostly made it up, figuring
no one watching had actually read any Blue Book files. Does
anyone else recall that show?

<snip>

 >I found his testimony to be very convincing! He seems to be
 >honest to me!

Very well could be... just remember, Ed Walters seemed honest,
too... as did Don Schmitt.....

 >He became a zealous UFO Researcher, but has since
 >retired from that role, though I still see his name pop up here
 >& there! I haven't read any dirt on him. I got the impression he
 >regretted getting into the Mars face analysis. Another issue,
 >which awaits closer inspection. IMHO :)

I'm on the fence on that one. I think that was a legitimate
mystery _until_ Hoagland got involved... still, some people have
done some very legitimate work on that, Mark Carlotto comes to
mind, and several others. I still think I see some
'architecture' to that thing, that is beyond 'aeolian'.


==JJS==








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   Oct > Oct 2

                          Possible Outage Thursday

From: Larry Hatch <larry@LARRYHATCH.NET>
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 23:05:28 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 08:11:40 -0400
Subject: Possible Outage Thursday


Hello all:

I just received the message below from my dial-up ISP. I like to
follow major storms in progress, and hope Sysmatrix doesn't go
offline right in the 9th inning!

If I suddenly go deaf and dumb, Thursday or so especially, this
is probably why. Messages sent via my website
(larry@larryhatch.net) will be received, but it all funnels thru
my dial-up.

In time, all will be well in any case.

For those following Hurricane Lili, and/or any others brewing in
the Atlantic, I recommend this URL:

http://www.moreweather.com/tropics/



Best wishes

- Larry Hatch


PS: I pay $10 per month for my dial-up, so I can't complain
much. At least they give outage warnings:


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Service Announcement
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 23:54:23 -0600
From: <support@sysmatrix.net>
To: <mailall@sysmatrix.net>


Valued User,

We would like to keep all users informed of a weather
situation that could cause temporary outages for short
periods of time. Currently there is a Hurricane (Lili)
in the Gulf of Mexico that may possibly hit our area
Thursday afternoon.

Our main offices are located in South East Texas a short
distance from the coast next to the Texas / Louisiana
border. We have power generators in place, but damage
to telephone or data lines are a possibility. If we are
hit directly by this storm, personnel may not be available
for technical support during this period.

To keep informed about this particular Hurricane, current
information can be located at:

http://www.weather.com/

We appreciate your understanding of any potential problems
you may experience as a result of this storm, and wish to
thank you for your continued Internet Service Subscription.

Support Team

= = = =








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   Oct > Oct 2

                Re: 'X' Marks The Mysterious Planet - Speiser

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 23:17:20 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 08:15:36 -0400
Subject: Re: 'X' Marks The Mysterious Planet - Speiser


 >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers -
 >Date: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 4:51 PM
 >Subject: UFO UpDate: 'X' Marks The Mysterious Planet


 >Source: Columbus Ledger-Enquirer - Georgia

 >http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/mld/ledgerenquirer/news/local/4179150.htm

 >Posted on Mon, Sep. 30, 2002

 >'X' Marks The Mysterious Planet
 >By Carole Rutland
 >Special to the Ledger-Enquirer

 >Now you see it, now you don't!

 >It's the case of the missing planet, and it all started with a
 >nagging suspicion that everything was not quite right with the
 >orbital motions of some of the outer planets. Dubbed Planet X by
 >some scientists, its existence has been speculated because of
 >something called "perturbations."

Is it possible this "Planet X" is responsible for the tiny
discrepancy in the speed of... is it Voyager?... I think the
story was posted here previously that scientists are scratching
their heads over a billionth-of-a-gee slowdown in some
spacecraft, couldn't this be another indication of Planet X?

And another thing...a billionth of a gee?  Come on, guys,
couldn't somebody's calculator be giving off a rounding error or
something? Nobody's _that_ good.....


==JJS==








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                       UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 40

From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 07:48:14 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 09:15:28 -0400
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 40


Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor

<Masinaigan@aol.com>
==========================

       UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 7, Number 40
October 1, 2002
Editor: Joseph Trainor

http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/


CHUPACABRA KILLS
19 FARM ANIMALS IN
PONCE, PUERTO RICO

       "The story of the so-called Chupacabra, the shadowy
character that attacks and slays animals, emerged once
again in Ponce," a city on Puerto Rico's southern coast,
"when 19 fighting roosters, rabbits, ducks and
chickens turned up dead at a residence in the La Calzada neighborhood."
       "'This is weird.  I think it was the Chupacabra who
slew my animals.  I'm scared and alarmed by what
occurred,' said the animals' owner, Ramon Luis
Guzman Colon."
       "Some of the animals were found yesterday morning
(Sunday, September 22, 2002) by Guzman Colon outside
their cages and others still within them.  A rooster was
dragged 30 meters (100 feet) from its cage and was still
agonizing on Sunday afternoon.  Four of the fighting
roosters were dead, one beside the other, and in a
strange case, two roosters were changed from their
respective cages and were found dead facing each other."
       "'It's weird.  They swapped the roosters from one
cage to another,'" he said.
       "All of the animals have wounds on their necks or
backs.  Dozens of neighbors and curiosity seekers from
other sections of Ponce swarmed around the humble
dwelling for a glimpse of the strange event."
       "'At two o'clock in the morning, I heard the dog
barking in the alley, and when I came downstairs, the dog
vanished.  I heard no noise whatsoever and went back to
bed,' noted Guzman Colon, 53, who is unemployed since the
shutdown of the Central Mercedita sugar refinery."
       "'I got up at 6:30 in the morning and found the 19
animals, largely roosters, dead.  This is very weird,' he
added, 'The way in which they were bitten, the same area
(cannot be attributed--S.C.) to dogs.'"
       "A black-and-white dog was (found) hiding in the
hollow of a tree on Sunday."
       "'Even the dog is scared.  Something weird is going
on,' said Guzman Colon, who showed some large tracks
which he alleged 'belong to the animal that did this.'"
       "'Look at these tracks.  They're not those of a dog.
They belong to a strange animal.'"
       "Guzman Colon pointed out that he has 12 chickens
and roosters left and showed some of the broken cages.
'The animal responsible for this is short (in stature--
S.C.) because it broke the cages from below,' he
theorized."
       "Carlos Soto, a neighbor of the affected party,
believes that a snake could have dragged itself from the
adjacent lot and caused the deaths, but Guzman Colon
insisted that serpents cannot break into cages."
       "The legend of the Chupacabra emerged several years
ago," following widespread reports in Puerto Rico in
1995, "when it allegedly killed cows, dogs and other
animals.  It is even believed that it did the same thing
in Venezuela, Mexico and the Dominican Republic (and
Brazil--J.T.).  The alleged incidents began in the
municipality of Canovanas, P.R."  (See the Puerto Rican
newspaper Primera Hora for September 23, 2002,
"Chupacabra reappears in Ponce, Puerto Rico."  Muchas
gracias a Scott Corrales y Jose I. Gomez para eso
articulo de diario.)


TRIANGULAR UFO SIGHTED
OVER LONG ISLAND, N.Y.

       On Sunday, September 8, 2002, at 11:30 a.m., Scott
McIntosh "was sitting on my stoop" in Bellmore, Long
Island, N.Y. "and saw something come over the house.
Living between John F. Kennedy and LaGuardia airports,
that's not uncommon.  But this wasn't an airplane."
       "When it got above the house behind ours, it seemed
to stop for a matter of two or three minutes.  Long
enough for me to have my girl friend and her mom come
out."
       "We watched this for a long time as it turned west
and was gone out of sight.  I was even watching it
through glasses, so I got a good look at it.  But it
wasn't like anything I've ever seen.  This was
triangular-shaped and made no noise whatsoever."
       "The object was white with some black on it.  Was
hard to tell.  It was pretty high up.  There wasn't a
cloud in the sky.  When it came over our house, it was
moving fast but seemed to stop.  I first thought it was a
military aircraft."  (Email Form Report)


CIGAR-SHAPED UFO APPEARS
OVER NORTHERN ARIZONA

       On Tuesday, September 10, 2002, at 7:40 p.m., B.H.
was on the deck outside her home in Prescott Valley,
Arizona (population 23,535), about 100 miles (160
kilometers) north of Phoenix, when she saw something
unusual in the sky.
       "I usually sit on my deck at night to stargaze," she
reported, "This object, very large, cigar-shaped, was
approaching rapidly out of the northwest.  When I observe
something like this, I fix my binoculars on a nearby star
to get an idea of the speed of the object.  I tried this
four times but the craft was moving too fast."
       "It had deep red and bright white lights pulsing
back and forth down the length of the craft that seemed
to be moving about as fast as the object itself was.
There was no sound as it flew low, as I have seen twin
engines (airplanes) do just taking off from our airport
nearby.  I watched it disappear from sight to the
southeast."
       "Approximately five to six minutes later, I heard a
roar in the sky behind me (the east--B.H.) and turned to
see the strobing flash of two jet fighters dropping down
out of the sky to about the same altitude as the UFO.
They made a turn in the same direction (southeast) and
followed the same flight path out of sight."
       The UFO's "exact speed unknown, but as fast as I
have seen jet fighters fly.  It flew right over our
(Prescott Valley) airport, which is probably what
triggered the jet fighters being sent out."  (Email Form
Report)


TRIANGULAR UFO FLIES OVER
A BRIDGE IN MONTREAL

       The UFO flap in Canada's Quebec province continued
last week with a sighting over the Champlain Bridge in
Montreal.
       On Friday, September 27, 2002, at 7:40 p.m., the
male witness "was driving on the Champlain Bridge, going
south.  It was raining.  I was in the middle lane and
almost on the high point of the bridge when I saw from
the corner of my eye what looked like a plane flying
extremely low, coming from my right (the west--J.T.)."
       "As I was getting to the highest point of the bridge
(under the metal structure), the lights flew over the
bridge in a horizontal flight pattern.  It slowed down
when crossing over the bridge.  I then had a good look at
this light formation.  It then increased speed, when it
broke its flight line (flight path--J.T.) at a right
angle, going up into the sky over St.-Lambert," Quebec,
Canada.
       "As I was driving under the (metal) structure, I
realized that what I was looking at was not a plane.  The
light formation was not a plane or anything I had ever
seen before.  It seemed that cars slowed down.  I was
stunned."
       "The basic shape of the craft looked like a small
square which is wider at the top, almost like a truncated
triangle or a geometric U that widens halfway up."
(Editor's Note:  Sort of like this...\_/...)
       "The whole thing was the size of a small truck.  I
have a feeling I was looking at the end of the craft
because I saw a light formation with lights that were
circular, flat and red, and the diameter of the lights
was the size of a dinner plate.  Four lights on each side
and three lights at the bottom of the geometric U."
(Many thanks to Canadian ufologist Brian Vike for these
reports.)


TRIANGULAR UFO SIGHTED
NEAR WINNIPEG, MANITOBA

       On Monday, July 15, 2002, "in the early morning
between 1 a.m. and 3:30 p.m., a friend and I were going
out for a cigarette when my friend noticed something in
the sky," eyewitness J.C. reported, "It was triangular in
shape and extremely silent for an object hovering roughly
350 to 450 meters (1,155 to 1,485 feet) in the air.  As
the object started moving, it made a slight 15-degree
turn right and then another 15-degree turn right before
going straight off into the cloudy night," eastward
towards Winnipeg, the largest city in Canada's Manitoba
province.
       "Color of the object seen was reddish-brown.  It was
triangular in shape and fairly large (larger than a
single-engine plane--J.C.).  Underneath the body was a
highly-definable boomerang shape.  In the boomerang shape
were roughly five to seven glowing reddish balls that
illuminated the sky."
       "The speed of the object was extremely slow.  It was
practically hovering in one spot for four seconds before
it began moving.  Last seen heading east of the city
(Winnipeg--J.T.)."
       "Coincidentally, my father, who was at work a few
weeks later, was listening to (Canadian radio station)
CJOB in the evening, when a caller called and reported
seeing the same type of object roughly around the same
time that we had seen ours."  (Email Form Report)


UNUSUAL SKY BOOM HEARD
IN PORTLAND, MAINE

       On Thursday, September 26, 2002, at 9:40 p.m.,
Morgan Cathbadh was at her home in Portland, Maine
(population 64,249) when a tremendous reverberating boom
rattled her house.
       "This is not a sighting but a 'hearing'," Morgan
reported, "We had a big sonic boom, which lasted a very
long time.  Several minutes, at least.  Rolled along like
thunder.  The reverberations shook the house.  But it
wasn't a jet's sonic boom, and it wasn't thunder.  It was
very strange."
       "We live near the airport.  Sonic booms are common.
But this one was very different.  There has been a lot of
UFO activity here in Portland, Maine since the 1980s.
Did anybody else hear it?"  (Email Form Report)


MYSTERIOUS LIONS KILLED
IN QUITMAN, ARKANSAS

       "Lisa Vaughan says her log cabin in the woods was so
peaceful that sometimes the only sound that could be
heard was the trees swaying in the wind."
       "Now she's listening for lions."
       "In the past week, four 600- to 800-pound African
lions believed to have some connection to a nearby exotic
animal farm have been killed near" Quitman, Arkansas
(population 714).  "And residents say the terror may not
be over because no one knows for sure whether more lions
are on the loose."
       "'I had a terrible headache, and my blood pressure
has been up...It's been a terrible ordeal,' says Vaughan,
whose husband, Johnny, killed two of the lions with his
30.06 (calibre) rifle."
       "'Everybody is scared around here,' neighbor Arvil
Skinner says.  'People have to sit out with a high-
powered rifle just to let their kids play in the yard.
That's just how serious it is.  It might be all right,
and it might not.  They might still be out there.  We
just don't know.'"
       "The Vaughans say they believe that the lions belong
to animal farm operator Steve Henning, who moved in on
the other side of the patch of trees almost a year ago.
He brought with him 11 African lions, 30 tigers, five
mountain lions and a lynx."
       "Henning says the lions killed in the woods were not
his.  He speculates that someone who tried to give him
lions last week turned them loose on the 44-acre property
of Safari Unlimited, the lion and tiger farm he
operates."
       "The farm is not open to the public, Henning says.
Aside from the pens where Henning keeps his (big) cats,
the property is not fully fenced."
       "Neighbors express disbelief over Henning's
response.  'That really blows my mind how anyone could
believe that story,' Lisa Vaughan says."
       "Henning was not able to give Cleburne County
Sheriff's deputies or the Arkansas Fish and Game
Commission the name of a person they could track down,
authorities say.  'Mr. Henning told us the guy goes by
different names, and he doesn't know where he lives,'
Deputy Jack Allen says."
       "Sheriff Dudley Lemon, who has inspected Safari
Unlimited, says he thinks Henning is telling the truth.
But, he adds, believing Henning's story does mean more
big cats could be roaming the woods."
       "Johnny Vaughan says he will be the first to
apologize to Henning if it's proven the lions that have
been killed didn't belong to him."
       "But he and his neighbors in this town of 700 people
about 60 miles (100 kilometers) north of Little Rock want
local laws amended so that Henning can't keep lions and
tigers in their neighborhood."
       A few days later, "The Turpentine Creek Wildlife
Refuge near Eureka Springs," Ark. (population 2,500)
"said it would accept 56 tigers, lions and other big cats
now living at Safari Unlimited."
       "Four lions were shot and killed last week after
roaming free in the woods near Safari Unlimited...The
farm's owner said the animals weren't his."  (See USA
Today for September 24, 2002, "Four lions killed; Ark.
town fears more are loose," page 9A., and USA Today for
September 27, 2002, "Arkansas," page 5A.)
(Editor's Note:  In Forteana, this type of event falls
under the heading of phantom panthers.  Black panthers
are the usual animals seen, caught or killed, but
occasionally it's lions or tigers.  Classic phantom
panther cases include Pittsburgh, Pa. in July 1907;
Gardner, Mass. in December 1909 and Decatur, Illinois in
July 1917.  More recently, in January 1999, an out-of-
place Siberian tiger was shot and killed in central New
Jersey.  For more on this tiger, see UFO Roundup, volume
4, number 5 for February 1, 1999, "Mysterious tiger on
the prowl in New Jersey," page 6.)


BENGAL TIGER KILLED IN
BLOOMINGTON, ILLINOIS

       "A 400-pound (1,000-kilogram) Bengal tiger escaped
from its owner's trailer and hid in shrubbery just
outside a residential neighborhood" in Bloomington,
Illinois (population 64,808) "for about eight hours
before police shot and killed it."
       "Residents had been warned to stay indoors Saturday
morning," September 28, 2002, "while police and zoo
experts tried to capture the tiger using tranquilizer
darts."
       "They fired four darts but failed to hit the tiger
and ended up shooting it when it tried to sneak away from
the area where officers had it cornered, Bloomington
Police spokesman Duane Moss said."
       "The tiger had escaped from the trailer at a truck
stop about 5 a.m. and hid for most of the afternoon near
a six-foot (1.8-meter) high fence line just beyond homes.
Police shot it when it started toward a truck on which
two Illinois Conservation Officers were standing."
       "Police said the escaped tiger belonged to a Texas
woman who was convicted in Illinois of endangering a
child after the tiger bit a young girl.  Mary Jeane
Williams, 44, had been ordered by a judge on Thursday,"
September 26, 2002, "to remove the tiger from the state."
(See the Duluth, Minn. News-Tribune for September 30,
2002, "Officials kill escaped tiger," page 2A.)
(Editor's Comment:  Although, unlike Quitman, Arkansas,
this tiger's ownership and presence have been clearly
established, it's strange that we've had two "big cat"
episodes in the USA during the past week.  Synchronicity,
anyone?)


READER FEEDBACK:

       The controversry over "switchover mode," UFO
Roundup's method of printing measurements in both English
and metric, generated a lot of reader responses.  The
majority responding were in favor of keeping it, as
you'll see in the letters below:

READERS SAY, "KEEP METRIC!"

       Jean Waskiewicz (USA) - "Joseph, I, for one,
appreciate the metric conversions and would like them
left in your newsletters.  These conversons, as well as
your geographic notations, are a great help to me in
visualizing where the event took place.  Please keep both
in."

       Gary Smith (USA) - "I think Bob was a little too
critical in his comment.  I see you trying to put out
something of interest in your way related to what few
others try to do.  It is easy to critique the cooking of
others."

       Dale Hoover (USA) - "Regarding Bob Reid's
complaints, please continue with the 'switchover mode.'
Those millions of us in the U.S. with just a public
school education are so lacking in geography knowledge,
metric system knowledge and so much more!  Your
thoroughness in this regard is so very helpful and
appreciated.  Perhaps Bob can just speed-read over the
parts that 'bug' him."

       Peter van der Male (Australia) - "Please continue
with the metric measurements in your articles.  Those of
us not used to Imperial (English in the USA--J.T.)
measurements and such are glad that you are taking the
time to put in the metric measurements.  '14,000 feet'
means nothing to us, whereas in metric it's a little bit
more helpful."

       Doris Render (USA) - "Don't listen to this guy.  You
are trying to make things clearer for everyone.  If I
already knew it--no harm.  If I don't, you've taught me
something.  I especially enjoy your historical stories at
the end.  I really like them."

       Jim Deardorff (USA) - "Regarding your question on
metric-English units, I wouldn't mind seeing your
inclusion of the metric units continue, myself.  It's
subliminally educational for those who have fallen back
into depending only on English units and have forgotten
the metric, especially during the Bush years when only
the United States and our systems count."

       Dr. Grey M. Woodman (South Africa) - "I am not too
proud to accept your help in translation from inches to
meters.  Keep right on with the good work."

       Jim Corbett (UK) - "Your cogent and thoughtful use
of crossover empirical and observation data is very well
accepted.  Your readership is aware of both systems, but
the general mass only uses one of the two in their
everyday life...and having the familiar measure at our
immediate reference actually makes the intake of the data
much smoother than stopping to interface or convert the
data to the other format."

       Rose Vrabel (USA) - "Keep them conversions coming.
I don't know a meter from a mile and really don't intend
to learn.  You do a great job."

       David Baker (USA) - "I like your use of the
'switchover mode,' even to the extent that I have adapted
it in some of my writing, as well.  It adds to my
understanding of the story, and it conveys to me that you
have an interest in your readers.  Thank you."

       J.M. Kriek (South Africa) - "I personally appreciate
the explanations.  I cannot make these conversions
easily."

(Editor's Comment:  However, Bob Reid has his supporters,
too.  Read on...)

BOB REID IS RIGHT.  DUMP METRIC.

       Sonya Porter (UK) - "By all means, tell the
Americans that a torch is a flashlight, but I should
forget about metric measurements.  Even young children
still measure their height in feet and inches; try asking
a a teenager his chest size or a woman of any age her hip
size.  Everyone can calculate in metric (which was
wrongly measured to begin with, back in the late 18th
Century and is not a division of the world's surface,
after all--S.P.) since it's been taught along with
Imperial for over a century.  But people know what
Imperial is.  Even the French still sell tomatoes and
bread in pounds and cut wood lengths to one metre, 20
centimetres so that it can be divided into thirds,
quarters, eighths, etc.  And I gather that all sorts of
odd things are still sold and calculated in Imperial
because it is more practical.  So--you can save space by
omitting metric in your reports!"


  From the UFO Files...

1995: SAUCER LANDS IN
            SOUTHERN AFRICA

       "On 15 September 1995, at 22 h 20 (10:20 p.m.) local
time, a black farmer, Mr. Peter Lachasa, notified Sgt.
Thobo of the Leribe Police Department that he found a
very strange-looking craft on his farm, which lay 12
kilometers (7 miles) west of the Madibamatso River in
Lesotho."
(Editor's Note:  Lesotho is a small independent nation
entirely surrounded by the nation of South Africa.)
       "According to Mr. Lachasa, at 21 h 15 (9:15 p.m.)
local time, he heard a strange sound in the sky near his
farm which frightened his cattle and livestock.
Approximately two minutes later (9:17 p.m.) a dull
explosion was heard.  The complainant then went outside
his house to investigate the cause."
       "Friends of Mr. Lachasa, who also live in the
boundaries of his farm, informed him that they had been
watching a bright light in the sky that was slowly
descending on a course toward the Lesotho foothills.
According to the witnesses, the object exploded on
impact, giving off a series of blinding flashes."
(Editor's Note:  From this point on, the Leribe Police
report refers to Peter Lachasa as "the primary witness.")
       "According to the primary witness (Lachasa), an
electronic humming sound emanated from the craft, after
which the light around it diminished, and the object
became dull grey in colour.  An intense heat field
surrounded the craft, which made close-up inspection by
the primary witness impossible.  Dry grass in the area
was set alight by the intense field surrounding the
craft."
       "Fearing that the craft might have injured
occupants, the primary witness decided to inform the
local police department at Leribe of the incident."
       After Lachasa visited the Leribe police station, "at
22 h 34 (10:34 p.m.) local time, Sgt. Thobo and Constable
Nandi escorted the witnesses to the site to investigate
the complaint.  On arrival the police officers made the
following entry into their Incident Report."
       "(1) A large, round, disk-shaped object lay within
the boundaries of Mr. Lachasa's farm."
       "(2) The object measured approximately 18 meters (60
feet) in length and 3 meters (10 feet) in height."
       "(3) The object was dull grey in colour."
       "(4) No windows/portholes or any form of entry/exit
could be seen on the craft."
       "(5) The craft did not appear to have any external
damage breakage even though the terrain surrounding the
craft was severely disturbed."
       "Sgt. Thobo radioed his observations to the Leribe
Police Department whilst on the site and was instructed
to return to the department and make an official report."
       "At 00 h 15 (12:15 a.m., September 16, 1995) local
time, a Lesotho Government official was contacted, and a
report consisting of two pages was faxed to South African
Military Command, SAI Intelligence Unit in Bloemfontein
(South Africa) on authorization of the Lesotho
Government."
       "The Intelligence Unit at 1 SAI received a fax from
the Lesotho Ministry of Defence in Maseru at 00 h 17
(12:17 a.m.) local time regarding a crash of an alleged
unidentified/unconventional flying object that impacted
on the farm of Mr. Peter Lachasa, a black cattle and
livestock farmer who is located 12 kilometers west of the
Madibamatso River near Leribe."
       "Due to the nature of the incident, it was decided
to request information and possible confirmation from
military air traffic control in Bloemfontein on any
military/civilian aircraft in the sector at the time of
the incident."
       "It was noted that there was no aircraft in the area
other than a routine (South African) Air Force Puma
helicopter, which patrolled the South African/Lesotho
border approximately 30 minutes before the alleged
incident took place."
       "Commander George Human from the Airborne Division
at 1 SAI/1 PARA (Parachute or Airborne--J.T.) Battalion
instructed an aerial assessment of the area in question.
Two (SAAF) Alouette rescue helicopters were sent into the
area.  At 01 h 17 (1:17 a.m.) local time, Captain Manie
Louw reported that he was at the designated area and that
a fierce veldt (prairie in the USA--J.T.) fire had
engulfed the area."
       Captain Louw "then went on to report his
observations of the area as follows:"
       "(1) An area of approximately 400 square meters
engulfed in fire."
       "(2) A disc-shaped, metallic-looking object of about
20 meters (66 feet) in length that seemed to be intact."
       "(3) The terrain around the object was torn up and
severely disturbed by the impact."
       "(4) Due to the fact that it was night, and smoke
from the fire obscured vision, clear observations could
not be made at the time."
       "Captain Manie Louw was instructed to patrol/secure
the area until further instructions were given."
       "Military Intelligence in Pretoria (South Africa's
capital--J.T.) was informed and instructed 1 SAI Intel
(Intelligence Unit) to maintain a sterile area of 150
meters (500 feet) around the craft, after which they will
take complete control over the situation."
       "Third Battalion from 1 SAI Intelligence Unit was
flown to the area to guard/secure the object until
Foreign Technology Recovery Division from (SAAF) Valhalla
Air Force Base arrived at the site."
       "At 03 h 47 (3:47 a.m.) local time, the area and
object was secured and Operation ROLD TSR came into
effect.  Due to the fact that this was a military
intelligence operation dealing with an unidentifiable
foreign technology, all members of Third Battalion were
issued orders to arrest any intruders who strayed into
the secured area."
       "The area remained sterile until Foreign Technology
Recovery Unit arrived at 05 h 55 (5:55 a.m.) local time."
(See Extra-Terrestrial Association Newsletter #3 for
1999, "Leribe Police Department Secret/Geheim Priority
Internal Report" and "Military Report, Military Command/1
SAI Intelligence Unit, Bloemfontein," pages 4 and 5.
Many thanks to Roger Day of South Africa's Extra-
Terrestrial Association for the copy of the newsletter.)


       Well, that's it for this week.  Join us in seven
days for more UFO, Fortean and paranormal news from
around the planet Earth, brought to you by "the paper
that goes home--UFO Roundup."  See you then.

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2002 by Masinaigan Productions,
all rights reserved.  Readers may post news items from
UFO Roundup on their websites or in news groups provided
that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name
and list the date of issue in which the item first
appeared.

E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com>
or use the Sighting Report Form at:

http://ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm

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   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   Oct > Oct 2

                            Re: Symbols - Anthony

From: Gary Anthony <mithrand@mithrand.karoo.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 10:59:52 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 09:19:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Symbols - Anthony


 >From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 14:49:37 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Symbols

 >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 13:10:13 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: Symbols

 ><snip>

 >>Then (rightfully) linguists and cryptographers should have them!
 >>I wouldn't know where to begin Greg.

 >>Where does one find 'linguists and cryptographers'?

 >If we assume, for the sake of argument, that such symbols are
 >'truly' alien, and meant to communicate solely to other aliens
 >from the same culture, then linguists and cryptographers will be
 >virtually useless.

 >Egyptian hieroglyphs were untranslatable until the Rosetta Stone
 >was found--and this symbology arose from a culture that shared
 >our common humanity and commemorated human experinces in their
 >writings. "Alien" symbols and glyphs, by their very nature will
 >probably remain enigmatic.


Hi List,

Brian may I refer you back to my post on this list dated
October 1st., at:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/oct/m01-001.shtml

To further elucidate, I would add that linguists and
cryptanalysts disagree with your viewpoint.  To be succinct,
linguistics has come a long way since the discovery and
deciphering of the Hieroglyphic writing system.

This aforementioned post should answer posts which speculate
that studying alien languages is a useless endeavour; it would
appear that since it has thus far generated no response, the
community on this list may be ignoring the relevance of it.?

In a separate post; the question was asked what samples do we
chose for study? Do we not include Orthon's footprints?
Initially I think it would be important and scientific to
include every sample of alleged alien communication, including
the contactee cases. Because if the study is to be truly
scientific, it would need to analyse and assess these too, on
merit of how they compare to later abductee samples and with
what may or may not be generated by the human psyche/mind. More
interesting samples may possess certain virtues not recognisable
to the untrained non-linguistic eye and by such virtues that is
how possible 'structure' may be analysed.


Best Regards

Gary








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   Oct > Oct 2

                            Re: Symbols - Anthony

From: Gary Anthony <garyant@mithrand.karoo.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 12:03:35 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 09:44:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Symbols - Anthony


 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 13:25:31 -0400
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Subject: Re: Symbols

 >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 20:54:31 +0000
 >>Subject: Re: Symbols

 >>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 13:10:13 -0400
 >>>Subject: Re: Symbols

 >>>>From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com>
 >>>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>>Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 17:39:18 -0400
 >>>>Subject: Re: Symbols

 >>>I'm hoping that the final outcome of these discussions is that
 >>>those samples manage to get into the hands of someone who can
 >>>get them to the 'best' experts and have them properly studied
 >>>and analysed.

Mark Newbrook, I and others are engaged in this process now.

 >>>>About Stuart Appelle. I don't think he's likely to get involved
 >>>>in this research, for the simple reason that it's not his field.
 >>>>He's a psychologist (I don't know what his specialty in
 >>>>psychology might be, but I see from his university's website
 >>>>that he's now an associate dean). I'm not sure what speciality
 >>>>you'd need to analyze purported alien writing, but I can imagine
 >>>>that linguists and cryptographers might be helpful.

Linguistics is the discipline required and cryptanalysis.

 >>>Then (rightfully) linguists and cryptographers should have them!
 >>>I wouldn't know where to begin Greg.

 >>>Where does one find 'linguists and cryptographers'?

Most Universities have a linguistics department; the trick is
picking a good one with scholars open to the questions. But the
UFO/Abduction community would have to do it's share.

 >>>The process after that is 'simple.' (ha,ha.) Budd and David have
 >>>to consent to the transfer of their material, authorize Stuart
 >>>to transfer it, then Stuart has to make sure the physical
 >>>documents get transferred.

 >>>Piece of cake eh? <LMAO>

It is not just a question of providing documentation, sources
may be required to make themselves available for questions,
where the information is not clear in literature, in order to
analyse the material and if this cannot be done then an
intermediary has to participate who can facilitate this process.

 >>>>In any case, Stuart never said he'd study the material himself.
 >>>>In his capacity as the editor of the Journal of UFO Studies, he
 >>>>said he'd try to find qualified people to make the study, and
 >>>>would publish their findings. I don't think he can help us
 >>>>himself.

Stuart wrote he thought it was more important to find out what
portion of these 'symbols' may be generated by the human mind
and subject the material to a statistical analysis. While this
would be handy; there is no reason why the samples should not be
analysed by linguists now and other relevant studies done in
tandem.

 >>>I need help here Greg. If this thing isn't actively (and I think
 >>>publicly) pursued, it will _never_ get done. I can't do it
 >>>alone.

 >>>(Maybe) if you would be willing to act as an intermediary/
 >>>contact with Budd and David, make the proposal, and (hopefully)
 >>>secure their permission, I'll talk to Dick Hall and he and I can
 >>>concentrate on contacting a few universities to see if we can
 >>>track down volunteer 'linguists and cryptographers.'

You may experience problems encouraging linguists, I have some
knowledge of linguistics and quite a few academic contacts, but
it still took hundreds of attempts to find people willing to
spare the time and provide the best of their expertise. A
cursory examination would be useless.

 >>>Dick, are you listening?

 >You wrote:

 >>John,

 >Hi Dick,

 >>My only problem with this is, what is there for language and
 >>code experts to study if they are truly alien language/writings?
 >>They would have nothing to compare it with; no precedents for
 >>figuring out its meaning.

 >Hmmm, well right out of the box, I never thought that finding
 >out the 'meaning' of the drawings was ever on the agenda. I am
 >curious to find out what experts think of the similarity of the
 >samples. That and the fact that they were obtained from a
 >diverse group of individuals that had never met previously.

Please refer to my post of October 1st:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/oct/m01-001.s html

 >>The best that could be expected is an argument of the reductio
 >>ad absurdum type: These sure ain't human language!

This is not valid. Structure analysis could determine a great
deal about alleged alien intelligence. See aforementioned URL.

 >>The best argument for possible alien origin, as you and Greg
 >>have stated, is that so many people have independently come up
 >>with the same markings/writings. Then it becomes a matter of
 >>devising an experiment whereby 'known' abductees (a problem in
 >>itself) submit their renderings independently to an impartial
 >>judging panel of some kind, which could then pass judgment on
 >>how consistent or inconsistent the markings/wriitngs are.

 >You brought up another problem! The fact that after 20-30 years
 >of 'alleged' research into the subject of abduction, that no
 >(broadly accepted or agreed upon) set of criteria for the
 >determination of what elements comprise a case of UFO abduction
 >has ever been adopted by the very people conducting the
 >'alleged' research.

This does not and should not prevent analysis! Linguists are the
relevant assessors of any alien writing system, why does a
separate panel to state who or who may not be an abductee, or
who's sample may look better, be a requirement? This makes the
matter more complex. Let each sample stand on it's merits, if it
doesn't cut the mustard there is no necessity for science or
anyone else to ridicule it. There are lots of experiments that
could prove useful in assessing alien writing systems or
language, comparative analysis is only one. We are endeavouring
to have as many done as possible.

 >I would have thought that, by this time, that very _basic_ piece
 >of business would have been taken care of. The closest thing we
 >have to a set of useable 'criteria' is the papers on abduction
 >and abductees that Stuart Appelle & co. published some ten+
 >years ago. It is rarely if ever quoted or mentioned. Yet no
 >other published set of criteria exists any where.

 >>Like everything else in this field, nothing is easy.

 >Greg says pursuing Stuart Appelle is probably a dead end. I
 >don't know what more to say other than I am disappointed.
 >Everybody seems to agree that this is important material and
 >that it is an important matter. No one seems to know 'how' to
 >get the job of having these things studied by experts executed
 >though.

At the risk of accusations of lack of objectivity. I have gone
to a lot of trouble and expense to find out how to 'get the job
of having these things studied by experts executed' John. In the
process I've been derided, put my own professional career on the
line, lost my youngest brother (who I loved dearly) in a tragic
suicide - and still continued with the project, while waiting
for his body to wash ashore 3 months later. So when Dick states
'Like everything else in this field, nothing is easy' I can
state without hesitation that I understand what he means, more
than most in this respect. But I am not going to give in on this
project, no matter what the obstacles are, nor what the
conclusions may be. I owe it to a lot of people who have placed
their trust in me, to find out what this aspect is about and
what can be done with it? Again, to reiterate, assuredly there
are many things which can be done, don't take my word for it,
seek out a linguist and ask.

 >I also can't figure out why guys Like Budd and David et al. are
 >not pooling and then presenting their 'evidence' themselves.
 >Especially Mack and Jacobs that both come from strong academic
 >backgrounds. Along with the invaluable service they provide for
 >the abductees, there is an element of neglect in terms of
 >presenting the data for independent analysis and evaluation.
 >That business about them being adverse to criticism from
 >skeptics and others just doesn't cut the mustard with me. But
 >then, I'm on the inside looking out.

There is a fear of confabulation. No academic wants to be
accused of dealing with 'dodgy' data. This has stigmatised the
topic in may ways. The information needs dealing with. Now!
Again, in regard to any future scepticism, let the data source
be anonymous as a safeguard, at the least then the aspect can be
advanced.

 >Frustrating, just plain frustrating. It's the kind of thing that
 >makes me want to throw my hands up and walk away from the whole
 >mess. If _nothing_ is ever going to get done, why the hell am I
 >wasting my life and my time.

 >I'm a computer savvy graphic artist. I could be making serious
 >money with the countless hours that I dedicate to 'ufology'. If
 >I have to _pay_ to be here, it would be nice to see something
 >accomplished from time to time.

 >Otherwise it's all just so much 'rap'.

I feel the same way sometimes, but still here.


Best Regards

Gary








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   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
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   Oct > Oct 2

                            Re: Symbols - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 08:43:10 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 09:47:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Symbols - Kaeser


 >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 23:11:31 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Symbols

[speaking of "PSI Factor" Jim responded]

 >I think I've watched that show maybe once. As to how much is
 >fiction... I recall a show in the 70's called "Project UFO" that
 >was supposedly based on actual case files from Project Blue
 >Book. While I'm not intimately familiar with Blue Book cases,
 >the episodes seemed a little too 'strained' to be real. And I
 >believe I read elsewhere that they mostly made it up, figuring
 >no one watching had actually read any Blue Book files. Does
 >anyone else recall that show?

It's interesting that one of the executive producers on 'Project
UFO' (which aired in 1978-79) appears to have been Jack Webb,
who was made famous by 'Dragnet'.

In looking at the plot descriptions online, I would suspect they
could have easily gotten away with the claim that the stories
were based on information obtained from the Project Blue Book
case files, but certainly they weren't taken verbatim.

Tragically, IMO, this type of programming has helped to cloud
the ongoing investigation of unknowns and gives fodder to
'skeptics' in their criticism of ufology as a scientific
investigation.

I believe that programs like this (which includes The X-Files)
do a disservice to ufology as they blur the lines between
fiction and fact. While they may increase awareness of the
subject, the foundation they lay in the minds of viewers is
often more fiction than fact.


Steve








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   Oct > Oct 2

                          Filer's Files #40 - 2002

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 11:25:55 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 12:48:55 -0400
Subject: Filer's Files #40 - 2002


FILER'S FILES #40 - 2002, MUFON Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer, Director Mutual UFO Network Eastern
October 2,, 2002, Majorstar@aol.com. Webmaster: Chuck
Warren -- My new website is at http//:www.filersfiles-ufo.com.

WAVE OF UFO SIGHTINGS ON WEST COAST OF US:

The purpose of these files is to report the UFO eyewitness and
photo/video evidence that occurs on a daily basis around the
world. Features this week are: Maine police see UFO, Vermont
flying triangle, New York yellow flying triangle, Pennsylvania
bigfoot, Virginia disk, North Carolina cone, Wisconsin bright
light, Illinois formations, Arizona flying wing, California five
objects in sky, Oregon blue beam, Washington UFO photos
continue, Canadian video of cylinder, Mexico photo of UFO,
Peruvian Air Force researches UFOs, Argentine police see 8 UFOs,
and United Arab Emirates yellow sphere

VENUS IS VERY BRIGHT THIS WEEK

The planet Venus is the brightest star in the heavens at this
time of year. At visual magnitude -4.6, Venus outshines Sirius
by a whopping factor of 18. You can see it in low southwest
between 6:30 and 7:00 p.m. just after local sunset. It may
exhibit a long shape due to ice crystals in the atmosphere. -
Thanks to spaceweather-374901E@snglist.msfc.nasa.gov

MAINE POLICE SEE REDDISH OBJECT OVER THE OCEAN

SCARBOROUGH -- On September 13, 2002, a security guard saw a
white-reddish circular object with a wide V on the top in
brilliant white in the clear black sky with numerous stars. The
UFO moved smoothly, but not fast. The witness states, "I was
making my security rounds at 1:15 AM, and at first I just saw
the lights, but looking closer I saw a hovering object, that
immediately begun to move." The UFO movements were over the
ocean about a 1/2 mile off shore. I took my flashlight and
clicked it off and on slowly and then rapidly.

It seems as though the object would move in coordination with my
flashing of the light and observe what I was doing. After
watching for half an hour, I reported the sighting to the local
police and an officer came to my location and also saw the
object. We walked to a darkened area of the inn and observed the
UFO moving and casting the white/reddish colors. He stated he
would contact FAA, for any air traffic. The only air traffic was
a plane I observed at 3:15 AM. The police officer said he would
go to the station for binoculars and try to observe object at a
beach a couple miles closer. I also contacted the night auditor
and we watched the object together as it made movements. Thanks
to Peter Davenport.

VERMONT TRIANGULAR LIGHT FORMATION

WALDEN -- On September 8, 2002, the witness was staying at a
friends house in Northern Vermont and watched an impressive
display of the Northern Lights early in the evening. The witness
says," I fell asleep on the couch and awoke around 3 AM and
decided to take my sleeping bag onto the deck to fall asleep
under the stars. While stargazing I noticed what appeared to me
a satellite tracking from south to north. Upon further
observation I noticed that the object was being followed by two
additional lights of the same size. All three were equidistant
forming a very distinct triangle pattern. The lights were about
1.5 - 2x brighter than the surrounding stars. I continued to
follow the objects as they tracked steadily to the north. After
the sighting I observed two brief flashes, similar to a mirror
at a great distance reflecting sunlight. The flashes were quite
brief but 3-4x brighter than the stars. These occurred about a
minute apart from each other and were overhead in the area.

NUFORC Note: We are aware of the U. S. Navy "NOSS" satellites
which currently are in orbit, but they are not in a polar orbit,
to the best of our knowledge. Also, they probably would not be
visible at 3:00 AM, since they probably would be in the Earth's
shadow at that time. Thanks to Peter Davenport -
http://www.ufocenter.com/ - NUFORC

NEW YORK FLYING TRIANGLE WITH YELLOW PULSING LIGHTS

ONEIDA -- On September 8, 2002, at 4 PM, on the highway in
Little Falls there was people driving slow and some people were
out of their car pointing up. Flying in the sky was a yellow
flying triangle with yellow pulsing lights, then it disappeared
and left a smoke trail like a jet in the shape of a triangle.
Thanks to Peter Davenport

PENNSYLVANIA RECENT BIGFOOT ACTIVITY

DERRY TOWNSHIP --Two witnesses reported to Researcher Stan
Gordon that on two separate occasions they spotted a Bigfoot
creature. The man said that he thought that I should be made
aware of what was happening, but he strongly expressed that the
identities of those involved, as well as the actual location of
the sighting not be made public. Gordon and his wife Debbie went
to Westmoreland County to investigate and video tape the sites.
The teenage son was the first to have an encounter with the
Bigfoot like animal on September 11, 2002, at 6 PM. The young
man was a very serious individual, and carefully revealed the
details of his sunset sighting, when he heard crashing sounds
originating from a wooded area.. There were sounds as though
something was hitting a log, and branches breaking. He stopped
to listen, 300 feet away he saw "a big brown human looking thing
but very tall." The creature was observed in some clearings. He
was man-like with broad shoulder ed, about 8 feet tall very long
arms , and covered with dark brown hair. The creature's head was
not perfectly round, and somewhat cone shaped. The creature
which took very long steps, was swinging its arms as it moved,
and was slightly bent forward as it walked. " It leaned over
when it walked." The observation lasted about 30 seconds.

Then on September 27, 2002, at about 2 PM., the wife heard a
sound like limbs and trees breaking coming from her left, and
she stopped her car. She was concerned about deer and was
talking to her husband on the cell phone when 45 yards away, she
saw a tall hairy creature emerge from a clearing in the woods an
estimated at 8 feet tall that matched the previous description.
The creature took big steps and crossed a tall barbed wire fence
in stride and just raised its leg over the fence. "It just
walked over a 44 inch fence. I had made many trips in this
general area during 1973, when a major outbreak of Bigfoot
sightings was occurring. Thanks to Stan Gordon (724-838-7768)
paufo@westol.com http://www.westol.com/~paufo

VIRGINIA DISK UFO SIGHTING

POQUOSON -- The witness reports, "I saw a brilliant bright light
streaking across the sky on September 15, 2002, something that I
have never witnessed in my life." At about 9:35 PM, I was
driving and stopped my van to look as the object traveled across
the sky at an extremely high rate of speed and disappeared. I
contacted Langley Air Force Base who confirmed that they had no
aircraft up tonight. We had cloudy conditions due to a tropical
depression. I also contacted the local TV station but they had
no other calls. There have been no meteor reports.

NORTH CAROLINA CONE PASSES OVERHEAD

CHARLOTTE -- On September 15, 2002, my friends and I were on
Lake Wylie fishing at 2:30 AM. We were startled as two cone
shaped objects passed overhead at high speed. No sound came from
the objects only a trail of blue light followed the objects.
Thanks to Peter Davenport [ http://www.ufocenter.com/ ]NUFORC

WISCONSIN BRIGHT LIGHT

SHEBOYGAN -- Jamie B. a 21 year old gas station attendant saw a
bright white light at about 30 degrees up on September 26, 2002,
that was about half the size of a pencil eraser at arm's length.
It would alternate between bright white and dim in a few
seconds. I watched it move south for two minutes. I also asked a
man who was filling up his truck if he was seeing what I was
seeing. his response was " Hmm that is a weird looking plane
isn't it?" Around 7:43 PM, looked again and the light seemed to
have gotten smaller and was flashing from white to red and then
blue extremely fast. I called my Mother who lives close by.
After five minutes, it started to move north in the same degree
and path that the white light moved except in the opposite
direction. My Mom arrived and she thought it was a slow moving
plane. Thanks to Jamie B.

ILLINOIS TWO STRANGE LIGHT FORMATIONS

CHICAGO -- Two round objects were observed hovering in the
western sky at about 8:55 PM, on September 15, 2002. The witness
reports, "They had red and green lights and were moving up and
down, left and right like nothing I have seen before." This is
the second time in a week I have seen them only this time they
appeared closer to me then the last time. I am a 41 year old
male who has never experienced anything like this before.

CHICAGO -- Later on September 15, 2002, at 10:40 PM, two
observers 20 and 25 year old students at the School of the Art
Institute were at the Buckingham Fountain on the Lake Michigan
water front looking at the stars. He reports, "All of a sudden,
two bright lights came out of the west moving very rapidly
towards the east. They were four times the diameter of a bright
star and it looked like they were made up of four lights: three
orange lights surrounding a yellow one in the center. The two
objects were flying about three inches from each other at my
arm's length. They were flying so perfectly in formation that at
first I thought it was one object. I yelled to my girlfriend,
who looked up to see the objects. As they approached the east
horizon they started doing some weird, non-ballistic maneuvers
that told me it was two separate objects moving quickly back and
forth closer to each other and then farther apart. We watched
them until they disappeared out of sight. Tha nks to Peter
Davenport [ http://www.ufocenter.com/ ]NUFORC

ARIZONA FLYING V WITH NUMEROUS LIGHTS

WEST PHOENIX -- Joy F. was sitting outside at 1:30 AM, observing
the night sky when she saw two planes flying east at high
altitude on September 14, 2002. Most planes are lower coming
into landing pattern for the airport.  She thought that was odd,
so she ran into house for binoculars and started looking at the
aircraft lights. Joy says, "I was just panning the sky marveling
at all the stars I could see with the binoculars as opposed to
naked eye and all of a sudden there appears in my view an object
at low altitude flying southwest line that was 'V' shaped and
all lit up. I was looking north when I saw the 'V' possibly
putting it over Glendale." This was not just a few points of
light in the shape of a 'V' but more like the light those shake
and break tubes the kids use at Halloween.  I was amazed as I
concentrated on it... it might have  turned  as the 'V' was not
all that distinguishable anymore.. I got up to track it but lost
it.  I could not see anything moving with the naked eye. its
almost as if this thing was not visible to naked eye but maybe
the binoculars acted like night vision?? Thanks to Joy phx.
Joyfu96337

CALIFORNIA FIVE OBJECTS IN THE SKY

SIERRAS -- A group of four friends just got back from a camping
trip, the week of September 16th thru the 22nd They started out
just north of Bishop, in the Eastern Sierras, and traveled
throughout the area and saw a very large bright object near Lone
Pine. At first the group thought it was a search helicopter with
a search light coming out of the bottom. They ruled out a
helicopter rather quickly after grasping the tremendous size of
the object. The object burst into a symmetrical flower shape and
there was an after glow that lasted 2 or 3 minutes before it
disappeared. After two or three minutes 3 fighter jet's buzzed
that area. Thanks to Doug Clark

WINNETKA -- We saw five objects, three in a row going downward
in the sky and one on each side on September 19, 2002. The
objects had flashing lights of different colors at 2:30 AM. We
were able to see them better with binoculars in the Eastern San
Fernando Valley, and tried to capture them with a digital
camera, but the battery died. I am an employee of a public
utility and my husband is a welder. We are not usually awake at
this hour, but we were preparing to go on vacation.

VANDENBERG AIR FORCE BASE, Calif. (AP) - An Air Force missile
test provided a spectacular light show seen over California and
much of the West, on September 19, 2002. The colorful contrail
was seen soon after the unarmed Minuteman III intercontinental
ballistic missile blasted off at 7:36 p.m. from an underground
silo at the Vandenberg Air Force Base north of Santa Barbara.
"The smoke went up in spirals as the sun was setting and turned
into an orange, amber color. It was like a flower going into
bloom pretty quickly. The missile traveled 4,200 miles in about
30 minutes, striking a predetermined target at the Kwajalein
Missile Range in the Pacific to test the missile's accuracy. "We
do this several times a year, but because the weather was so
perfect we decided to launch early and people were still awake
to see it. Even though the sun was below the horizon it glinted
off unspent fuel particles and water droplets. "Several people
reported the sighting to the UFO Reporting C enter. The mission
was directed by the 576th Flight Test Squadron and the 341th
Space Wing from Malmstrom Air Force Base in Montana.

Editors Note: Many people made reports of the launch, although
some reported it might be a UFO heading straight up. The reports
were reasonably accurate indicating that similar reports of UFOs
are also fairly accurate. I estimate about a third of the
sightings carried in these files are genuine UFOs of unknown
origin. On occasion missile launches have also been accompanied
by UFOs.

OREGON SIGHTING OF BEAM FROM THE GROUND TO AIR

PORTLAND -- An amateur astronomer and aviation enthusiast
reports, that on September 17, 2002, I saw a fluorescent
blue/purple beam like a thin streak of lightning descend from
the sky to , ground at 11:30 PM. This beam was relatively dim
but very clearly connected to the ground 1/4-mile south from my
location. Following the beam upwards, it grew dimmer with
distance, becoming invisible to the eye at about 250 meters,
higher up, I spotted an aircraft flying at 2,500 feet moving
south with a steady dim red light between the two white strobes.
The strobes were blinking together, at an interval of two quick
strobes in rapid succession separated by 3/4 second between
bursts. The strange beam appeared to be literally connected to
this aircraft, although at that distance I could not confirm
this due to the beam becoming too dim at that altitude.

As the craft passed overhead the angle of the beam changed
precisely as if it was fixed to a ground location. The width was
a toothpick held at arm's length. I lost sight of the aircraft
several times, but needed only to follow the path of this beam
upwards to relocate the aircraft's position. The angle of the
beam changed from and angle of 60, to 90 degrees straight up,
and to 45 degrees precisely in unison with the aircraft as
though it were a tether attached to the aircraft and fixed to
the ground. Through my binoculars the beam appeared un-solid,
quite wide and wavy, similar to lightening or electricity. I
awoke my wife and she confirmed what I was seeing. I drove in my
car to directly below the beam in about a minute, but it
disappeared. The total duration of this sighting was eight
minutes. My father is an international pilot, and we have
discussed the many highly strange natural phenomena that he
observes regularly during his flight paths over the Atlantic and
Pacific Oceans and the Arctic. My understanding is that this
phenomenon is completely unique. Thanks to Peter Davenport [
http://www.ufocenter.com/ ]NUFORC

BANKS -- It was hovering about two miles away at a pretty high
altitude on September 19, 2002. The witness states, "I thought
it was a B-2, or one of those old Flying Wings hovering for
about one minute." At 11 PM, it looked like a blackish dark gray
B-2 bomber, but then it shot sharply forward only to slow down
and stop. It then hovered for about another minute and then it
shot up at an angle into the sky and disappeared. I saw a UFO
when I was 10 years old, but I haven't been looking for them
since. I have a major knowledge of aviation so, I can tell the
differences between aircraft made in this world, and I know that
wasn't something I've ever heard of or seen before. I don't know
if it was making any noise due to a Cessna flying circles over
head. I called the local Hillsboro Airport and they were not
tracking anything in that direction, but they said that it was
probably a military jet from the Portland Airbase. The base only
has F-15s fighters, and they can't do what this did around here.
This was a UFO. Thanks to Peter Davenport

WASHINGTON SIGHTINGS CONTINUE

SEATTLE -- A woman called to report just having witnessed a very
large, cigar-shaped object doing maneuvers in the western sky on
September 18, 2002, viewed from near the corner of Airport Way
and Spokane Avenue in south Seattle at 7:15 PM. The witness
described the object as being disc-like, or perhaps shaped like
a cigar, with a distinct bulge on the top, and with several
lights along the side, flashing in sequence from left to right.
The object maneuvered to a considerable degree, executing a
circular path, at one point. It appeared to the witnesses to be
quite large, perhaps "three times the size of a Boeing 747." The
witnesses stopped their vehicle, and attempted to draw the
attention of other drivers to the object, but not one either
stopped, or took notice of the object. NUFORC Note: We asked the
witness whether she thought the object might have been a blimp,
and she insisted it was not. She and her boyfriend reside near
Boeing Field, and they feel they are quite familiar with all
types of aircraft.

SPOKANE-- On September 14, 2002, three unidentified flying
objects were flying from east to west at 5:15 AM and then many
jets followed. The witness reports, "Early in the morning, I
heard a noise that blended in with the sound of the freeway
nearby downtown Spokane, it sounded like a Volkswagen bug or
chopper sound mixed with a kind of whirring or whishing
frequency, that went swish. So the sound went chuck chuk chuk
whishzzzz, it was very mechanical. I looked out my second story
window and noticed a cat on the front lawn who was uncannily
looking up at the sky toward the east, that's when I saw a solid
white light moving towards me. The light made some loops, half
moons, figure eight, and right angles. I woke my girlfriend, and
asked her to look and listen. She heard it. I sat down for 20
minutes watching it hover with a bobbing motion. I then saw a
second object to the southeast and they both stopped for about 8
minutes, and then they starting moving again.

The first one did some pretty impossible moves and angles, and I
saw the additional lights come on. There where three with one at
the top and two on the bottom. It then went back to one light,
and cycled to 2 lights before retiring to one light. It then
appeared to move far away and fade and then move close and
brighten, this happened numerous times, before stopping and
freezing again. Then the second light which was quickly flashing
blue white and green made some very acrobatic movements which
are not possible within our technology. It stopped moving at the
same time as the first object, and was joined by a third object
briefly that was between the first two. It then faded away. The
other two objects hovered. I went upstairs, looked out the
window and the first object was gone, then reappeared, the
second object moved rapidly towards the south, then the first
object reappeared, disappeared, and reappeared a large distance
to the east of its original position. Thus going point t o point
in a triangle disappearing and reappearing like it teleported
almost, and then disappeared altogether, the second object still
moving, just vanished about 3 minutes after that. I saw a very
high speed jet come through the direct path heading west, like
it was in pursuit. Thanks to Peter Davenport

CANADA UFOs CONTINUE

MONTREAL, QUEBEC -- The witness was driving south on the
Champlain Bridge September 27, 2002, during a rainy night and
caught something out of the corner of his eye at the highest
point of the bridge when he saw what looked liked a plane flying
extremely low. The witness stated, "The lights flew over the
bridge in a horizontal flight pattern (it slowed down when
crossing over the bridge) I then had a good look at the light
formation at 7:40 PM. It then increased speed, where it broke
its flight line at a right angle going up into the sky over St-
Lambert. As I was driving under the structure, I realized that
what I was looking at, was not a plane or anything else I had
seen before. It seemed that cars slowed down. I was stunned.
The basic shape of the craft looked like a small square which is
wider at the top, almost like a truncated triangle or a
geometric 'U' that widens half way up. The whole thing was the
size of the small truck. I have a f eeling I was looking at the
end of the craft because I saw a light formation with lights
that were circular, flat and red, like you would see on the rear
of cars in the fifties. The lights were not 'bulb like' but
extremely flat, and the size of a dinner plate. Four lights on
each side and three at the bottom of the geometric 'U'. Thanks
to Brian Vike.

HAMILTON, ONTARIO -- The witness was sitting in his hot tub
looking up into an unusually clear night on September 11, 2002,
and noticed at least three times faint lights moving across the
sky at 2:22 AM. At first, I thought it was light from a
searchlight. Two minutes later, a triangular formation of three
lights came into view, traveling incredibly fast from NNW to
SSE. It was six seconds from the time they came into view until
they passed out of view behind the roof of my south-side
neighbor's house. This is sixty five percent of the sky along
the flight path. I did not see any metallic type of craft, only
three distinct, equally bright lights that were a dull yellow
color, and not sharp, but rather fuzzy, as if slightly out of
focus. Each light was, I would guess, to be about the size of a
dime at arm's length, spaced about triple that length apart,
with the two trailing lights about sixty degrees off from the
leading light.

LEDUC, ALBERTA -- On September 15, 2002, at 2:45 AM, Denny Unger
decided to step outside on a clear and windless night and saw
three points of light forming a flying triangle. My first
thought was that I was having a dizzy spell so I refocused, and
the lights were there. Thirty seconds later the flying triangle
of lights changed direction from north to east. The object was
either very large or very low and appeared to blot out passing
stars without sound. The lights on each tip were solid white,
but of very low intensity. There was a distinct impression that
the corner lights were used to camouflage the object and it was
doing its best not to be seen. It was completely silent. I
entered the house and grabbed my digital video camera, and began
filming the object but soon lost sight of it as it flew behind a
neighbor's home. I attempted to follow but lost it. This was all
captured on video but the triangular formation of lights could
not be resolved on film. Leduc is southeast of the Edmonton
International Airport and I can tell you with the authority of
living near the strip for over 10 years that this was NOT A
PLANE. The object was far too huge to be compared to anything
I've seen in our local skies. "Heavens Above" satellite tracking
system (www.heavens-above.com) listed no satellites for my area.
You have my permission to reveal my e-mail and name. I believe
this willingness lends a great deal to credibility. Thanks to
Denny Unger www.darkplanetonline.com darkplanet@shaw.ca

MEXICO DIGITAL PHOTOS TAKEN OF UFO

LAS GAVIOTAS/BAJA -- While reviewing pictures I had taken of the
ocean view directly in front of my vacation rental, I discovered
an image that was captured by my digital camera on one of my
pictures taken on September 13, 2002. I've never seen anything
like it. Any interferences or obstacles have been unquestionably
ruled out. The picture that I took of the exact same view, 30
seconds previously, shows no image whatsoever at about 7 PM. I
know that this is a rare and special picture that I
photographed. A flash moving slow at first, changes into a
spherical shape, circles, and races west, leaving behind a hazy
greenish smoke trail.

PERUVIAN AIR FORCE RESEARCHES UFOs

LIMA -- The Herald reports," Of all the officers in all the
armed forces of the world, perhaps none has a more unusual job
than Peruvian Air Force Commander Julio Chamorro: to investigate
-- and perhaps prove -- the existence of UFOs. As head of the
Office to Investigate Aerial Phenomena, Chamorro directs a
seven-member team in charge of studying what he calls
``anomalies that could cause problems with aviation.''
Ostensibly, the office investigates planes that veer off course
and hang gliders that steer too close to military bases, but
that's not the crux of the work.

Of the hundreds of calls received each month by the office,
Chamorro says at least half are to report UFO sightings. And
Chamorro believes many are credible. ''There are several
mysteries that we believe are highly important and which merit
our full attention,'' Chamorro said. ``If we can arrive at
definitive conclusions, our work will be highly beneficial to
Peru and all of humanity. Just think about the technological
advances if we can definitely prove the existence of
spacecrafts.'' Chamorro estimates that 60 percent of Peru's
population has seen an unexplainable event in the sky. He says
about a dozen each month are credible UFO sightings with no easy
explanation. For example, the video taken in Chulucanas, Piura,
at the end of 2001. Chamorro says it shows a huge ship sitting
in the sky for nearly two hours. ''The ship made no noise and
did not move. You can see the shape, which includes even
windows,'' Chamorro said. Chulucanas has a long history of UFO
sightings, he added. Chamorro's office was officially organized
two years ago, but the Peruvian government's interest in UFOs
goes back decades, and there is archaeological evidence that
ancient cultures were also hooked on other-worldly phenomena.
Thanks to Lucien O. Chauvin Lima Herald and Scott Corrales

ARGENTINA POLICE SPOT EIGHT UFOs

SAMPACHO --Police officers in Cordoba Province, "report they
have witnessed numerous circular and luminous objects performing
wobbly maneuvers in the night sky. The objects were seen at a
great distance but other police officers were contacted in an
outpost in Conechingones, with the object appearing and hovering
over tall hills. Police on patrol in the region last saw the
phenomenon on September 6, 2002, at around 10 PM. Two of the
officers in the town of Sampacho were radioed and they spotted
the red glow of eight hovering UFOs over the hill at an altitude
of 1,500 meters for several minutes.. The UFOs made no sound.
Thanks to Mario Luis Bracamonte del Servicio Informativo
Ovnilogico de Argentina.

UNITED ARAB EMIRATES YELLOW SPHERE

DUBAI -- The witness was lying on the beach on September 13,
2002, on a clear cloudless night at 10 PM, when he suddenly saw
a flash across the sky moving very slow at first. Then in a
split second the shape changed into something spherical, and it
seemed to stop for a moment and then circled as though it was
searching for something. The UFO was yellow and then suddenly
raced west, leaving a thin trail of greenish violet, hazy kind
of smoke trail.

UFO DEFENSE TACTICS - WEATHER SHIELD TO CHEMTRAILS

A. K. Johnstone, Ph.D., explores with evidence, the creation of
a weather shield to deter UFOs from entering earth's atmosphere,
as well as the erratic weather changes in recent years. Numerous
UFO sightings are examined from a scientific viewpoint,
including plasma sheaths and fireballs. Order illustrated book,
$14.95 from Hancock House 1-800-938-1114.

NEW JERSEY CONFERENCE

Pat Marcatillio is holding a UFO conference in Bordentown, NJ on
October 12 and 13 at the Days' Inn. Ingo Swann, David Jacobs,
Tom Van Flandern, Jim Moseley, Bruce Maccabee and others will be
speaking. Details are at--http://www.drufo.org.

SCIFI.COM -- "Join me for an online chat Wednesday, October 9,
at 9 p.m. ET/6p.m. PT, at www.scifi.com. We'll discuss UFO
sightings and I'll be available to answer your questions.

ONE STOP SHOPPING AT 100 TOP STORES ONLINE

Consider shopping at: [ http://www.filer.unfranchise.com/
]FILER.unfranchise.com for your Holiday gifts. You can shop on
line in a hundred different stores such as Ashlane Gift Baskets,
Books, Diamonds, Disney, Sweaters from Elizabeth's by Liz
Claiborne, Fragrances, Hallmark cards and flowers, Health and
Nutrition to obtain optimum health, Jewelry, Toy Chest,
Wine.Com. There is a store for your every special need, and you
qualify as a preferred customer by reading these files, and you
usually will qualify for special discounts.

WHAT YOU SHOULD KNOW WHEN HIRING A REAL ESTATE AGENT! Learn how
you can obtain the best real estate agent for your needs. To get
a free copy of this report e-mail me at Majorstar@aol.com

MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative
reports subscribe to the MUFON JOURNAL. A MUFON membership
includes the Journal and costs only $35.00 per year. To join
MUFON or to report a UFO go to http://www.mufon.com/. To ask
questions contact MUFONHQ@aol.com or HQ@mufon.com. Mention that
I recommended you for membership.

Filer's Files is copyrighted 2002 by George A. Filer, all rights
reserved. Readers may post the complete files on their Web Sites
if they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list
the date of issue that the item appeared. These reports and
comments are not necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON viewpoint. Send
your letters to Majorstar@aol.com. Sending mail automatically
grants permission for us to publish and use your name. Please
state if you wish to keep your name, address, or story
confidential. CAUTION, MOST OF THESE ARE INITIAL REPORTS AND
REQUIRE FURTHER INVESTIGATION.

Regards,

George Filer










   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   Oct > Oct 2

                            Re: Symbols - Randle

From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 09:54:56 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 12:51:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Symbols - Randle


 >From: Gary Anthony <mithrand@mithrand.karoo.co.uk>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 10:59:52 +0100
 >Subject: Re: Symbols

 >>From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 14:49:37 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Symbols

 >>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 13:10:13 -0400
 >>>Subject: Re: Symbols

 >><snip>

 >In a separate post; the question was asked what samples do we
 >chose for study? Do we not include Orthon's footprints?
 >Initially I think it would be important and scientific to
 >include every sample of alleged alien communication, including
 >the contactee cases.

Then would we not include the messages given to John Reeves at
Brooksville, FL (or rather found by him) and the symbols
observed by Jesse Marcel, Sr. and those seen by his son? What
about those seen by Bessie Brazel... and those seen on UFOs such
as that reported by Lonnie Zamora and in the photographs of the
UMMO UFO.

Seems to me that there are dozens of sources of alien writing,
some of them good and some of them not so good. Wouldn't it make
more sense to eliminate those that are clearly from hoaxes up
front so that they are not contaminating the sample, put those
that are dubious into another pile, and finally lump those that
are believed to be authentic into a third?

Of course, then we have the question of which samples go to into
which piles. There would be some who would see the contactee
symbols as being as valuable as those from abductees and some
who would look at the Roswell symbols as being more acceptable
than the UMMO symbols.

The first thing that must be done is to define the sample and
provide the protocols for accepting a sample as "authentic".
Then we can begin to argue which symbols go where. And I haven't
even addressed the problem of alien language and the possibility
that the symbols come from more than one source so our lumping
them all together might defeat the study before it even begins.

Just a couple of random thoughts.

KRandle








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   Oct > Oct 2

                          Filer's Files #40 - 2002

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 11:25:55 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 12:48:55 -0400
Subject: Filer's Files #40 - 2002


FILER'S FILES #40 - 2002, MUFON Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer, Director Mutual UFO Network Eastern
October 2,, 2002, Majorstar@aol.com. Webmaster: Chuck
Warren -- My new website is at http//:www.filersfiles-ufo.com.

WAVE OF UFO SIGHTINGS ON WEST COAST OF US:

The purpose of these files is to report the UFO eyewitness and
photo/video evidence that occurs on a daily basis around the
world. Features this week are: Maine police see UFO, Vermont
flying triangle, New York yellow flying triangle, Pennsylvania
bigfoot, Virginia disk, North Carolina cone, Wisconsin bright
light, Illinois formations, Arizona flying wing, California five
objects in sky, Oregon blue beam, Washington UFO photos
continue, Canadian video of cylinder, Mexico photo of UFO,
Peruvian Air Force researches UFOs, Argentine police see 8 UFOs,
and United Arab Emirates yellow sphere

VENUS IS VERY BRIGHT THIS WEEK

The planet Venus is the brightest star in the heavens at this
time of year. At visual magnitude -4.6, Venus outshines Sirius
by a whopping factor of 18. You can see it in low southwest
between 6:30 and 7:00 p.m. just after local sunset. It may
exhibit a long shape due to ice crystals in the atmosphere. -
Thanks to spaceweather-374901E@snglist.msfc.nasa.gov

MAINE POLICE SEE REDDISH OBJECT OVER THE OCEAN

SCARBOROUGH -- On September 13, 2002, a security guard saw a
white-reddish circular object with a wide V on the top in
brilliant white in the clear black sky with numerous stars. The
UFO moved smoothly, but not fast. The witness states, "I was
making my security rounds at 1:15 AM, and at first I just saw
the lights, but looking closer I saw a hovering object, that
immediately begun to move." The UFO movements were over the
ocean about a 1/2 mile off shore. I took my flashlight and
clicked it off and on slowly and then rapidly.

It seems as though the object would move in coordination with my
flashing of the light and observe what I was doing. After
watching for half an hour, I reported the sighting to the local
police and an officer came to my location and also saw the
object. We walked to a darkened area of the inn and observed the
UFO moving and casting the white/reddish colors. He stated he
would contact FAA, for any air traffic. The only air traffic was
a plane I observed at 3:15 AM. The police officer said he would
go to the station for binoculars and try to observe object at a
beach a couple miles closer. I also contacted the night auditor
and we watched the object together as it made movements. Thanks
to Peter Davenport.

VERMONT TRIANGULAR LIGHT FORMATION

WALDEN -- On September 8, 2002, the witness was staying at a
friends house in Northern Vermont and watched an impressive
display of the Northern Lights early in the evening. The witness
says," I fell asleep on the couch and awoke around 3 AM and
decided to take my sleeping bag onto the deck to fall asleep
under the stars. While stargazing I noticed what appeared to me
a satellite tracking from south to north. Upon further
observation I noticed that the object was being followed by two
additional lights of the same size. All three were equidistant
forming a very distinct triangle pattern. The lights were about
1.5 - 2x brighter than the surrounding stars. I continued to
follow the objects as they tracked steadily to the north. After
the sighting I observed two brief flashes, similar to a mirror
at a great distance reflecting sunlight. The flashes were quite
brief but 3-4x brighter than the stars. These occurred about a
minute apart from each other and were overhead in the area.

NUFORC Note: We are aware of the U. S. Navy "NOSS" satellites
which currently are in orbit, but they are not in a polar orbit,
to the best of our knowledge. Also, they probably would not be
visible at 3:00 AM, since they probably would be in the Earth's
shadow at that time. Thanks to Peter Davenport -
http://www.ufocenter.com/ - NUFORC

NEW YORK FLYING TRIANGLE WITH YELLOW PULSING LIGHTS

ONEIDA -- On September 8, 2002, at 4 PM, on the highway in
Little Falls there was people driving slow and some people were
out of their car pointing up. Flying in the sky was a yellow
flying triangle with yellow pulsing lights, then it disappeared
and left a smoke trail like a jet in the shape of a triangle.
Thanks to Peter Davenport

PENNSYLVANIA RECENT BIGFOOT ACTIVITY

DERRY TOWNSHIP --Two witnesses reported to Researcher Stan
Gordon that on two separate occasions they spotted a Bigfoot
creature. The man said that he thought that I should be made
aware of what was happening, but he strongly expressed that the
identities of those involved, as well as the actual location of
the sighting not be made public. Gordon and his wife Debbie went
to Westmoreland County to investigate and video tape the sites.
The teenage son was the first to have an encounter with the
Bigfoot like animal on September 11, 2002, at 6 PM. The young
man was a very serious individual, and carefully revealed the
details of his sunset sighting, when he heard crashing sounds
originating from a wooded area.. There were sounds as though
something was hitting a log, and branches breaking. He stopped
to listen, 300 feet away he saw "a big brown human looking thing
but very tall." The creature was observed in some clearings. He
was man-like with broad shoulder ed, about 8 feet tall very long
arms , and covered with dark brown hair. The creature's head was
not perfectly round, and somewhat cone shaped. The creature
which took very long steps, was swinging its arms as it moved,
and was slightly bent forward as it walked. " It leaned over
when it walked." The observation lasted about 30 seconds.

Then on September 27, 2002, at about 2 PM., the wife heard a
sound like limbs and trees breaking coming from her left, and
she stopped her car. She was concerned about deer and was
talking to her husband on the cell phone when 45 yards away, she
saw a tall hairy creature emerge from a clearing in the woods an
estimated at 8 feet tall that matched the previous description.
The creature took big steps and crossed a tall barbed wire fence
in stride and just raised its leg over the fence. "It just
walked over a 44 inch fence. I had made many trips in this
general area during 1973, when a major outbreak of Bigfoot
sightings was occurring. Thanks to Stan Gordon (724-838-7768)
paufo@westol.com http://www.westol.com/~paufo

VIRGINIA DISK UFO SIGHTING

POQUOSON -- The witness reports, "I saw a brilliant bright light
streaking across the sky on September 15, 2002, something that I
have never witnessed in my life." At about 9:35 PM, I was
driving and stopped my van to look as the object traveled across
the sky at an extremely high rate of speed and disappeared. I
contacted Langley Air Force Base who confirmed that they had no
aircraft up tonight. We had cloudy conditions due to a tropical
depression. I also contacted the local TV station but they had
no other calls. There have been no meteor reports.

NORTH CAROLINA CONE PASSES OVERHEAD

CHARLOTTE -- On September 15, 2002, my friends and I were on
Lake Wylie fishing at 2:30 AM. We were startled as two cone
shaped objects passed overhead at high speed. No sound came from
the objects only a trail of blue light followed the objects.
Thanks to Peter Davenport [ http://www.ufocenter.com/ ]NUFORC

WISCONSIN BRIGHT LIGHT

SHEBOYGAN -- Jamie B. a 21 year old gas station attendant saw a
bright white light at about 30 degrees up on September 26, 2002,
that was about half the size of a pencil eraser at arm's length.
It would alternate between bright white and dim in a few
seconds. I watched it move south for two minutes. I also asked a
man who was filling up his truck if he was seeing what I was
seeing. his response was " Hmm that is a weird looking plane
isn't it?" Around 7:43 PM, looked again and the light seemed to
have gotten smaller and was flashing from white to red and then
blue extremely fast. I called my Mother who lives close by.
After five minutes, it started to move north in the same degree
and path that the white light moved except in the opposite
direction. My Mom arrived and she thought it was a slow moving
plane. Thanks to Jamie B.

ILLINOIS TWO STRANGE LIGHT FORMATIONS

CHICAGO -- Two round objects were observed hovering in the
western sky at about 8:55 PM, on September 15, 2002. The witness
reports, "They had red and green lights and were moving up and
down, left and right like nothing I have seen before." This is
the second time in a week I have seen them only this time they
appeared closer to me then the last time. I am a 41 year old
male who has never experienced anything like this before.

CHICAGO -- Later on September 15, 2002, at 10:40 PM, two
observers 20 and 25 year old students at the School of the Art
Institute were at the Buckingham Fountain on the Lake Michigan
water front looking at the stars. He reports, "All of a sudden,
two bright lights came out of the west moving very rapidly
towards the east. They were four times the diameter of a bright
star and it looked like they were made up of four lights: three
orange lights surrounding a yellow one in the center. The two
objects were flying about three inches from each other at my
arm's length. They were flying so perfectly in formation that at
first I thought it was one object. I yelled to my girlfriend,
who looked up to see the objects. As they approached the east
horizon they started doing some weird, non-ballistic maneuvers
that told me it was two separate objects moving quickly back and
forth closer to each other and then farther apart. We watched
them until they disappeared out of sight. Tha nks to Peter
Davenport [ http://www.ufocenter.com/ ]NUFORC

ARIZONA FLYING V WITH NUMEROUS LIGHTS

WEST PHOENIX -- Joy F. was sitting outside at 1:30 AM, observing
the night sky when she saw two planes flying east at high
altitude on September 14, 2002. Most planes are lower coming
into landing pattern for the airport.  She thought that was odd,
so she ran into house for binoculars and started looking at the
aircraft lights. Joy says, "I was just panning the sky marveling
at all the stars I could see with the binoculars as opposed to
naked eye and all of a sudden there appears in my view an object
at low altitude flying southwest line that was 'V' shaped and
all lit up. I was looking north when I saw the 'V' possibly
putting it over Glendale." This was not just a few points of
light in the shape of a 'V' but more like the light those shake
and break tubes the kids use at Halloween.  I was amazed as I
concentrated on it... it might have  turned  as the 'V' was not
all that distinguishable anymore.. I got up to track it but lost
it.  I could not see anything moving with the naked eye. its
almost as if this thing was not visible to naked eye but maybe
the binoculars acted like night vision?? Thanks to Joy phx.
Joyfu96337

CALIFORNIA FIVE OBJECTS IN THE SKY

SIERRAS -- A group of four friends just got back from a camping
trip, the week of September 16th thru the 22nd They started out
just north of Bishop, in the Eastern Sierras, and traveled
throughout the area and saw a very large bright object near Lone
Pine. At first the group thought it was a search helicopter with
a search light coming out of the bottom. They ruled out a
helicopter rather quickly after grasping the tremendous size of
the object. The object burst into a symmetrical flower shape and
there was an after glow that lasted 2 or 3 minutes before it
disappeared. After two or three minutes 3 fighter jet's buzzed
that area. Thanks to Doug Clark

WINNETKA -- We saw five objects, three in a row going downward
in the sky and one on each side on September 19, 2002. The
objects had flashing lights of different colors at 2:30 AM. We
were able to see them better with binoculars in the Eastern San
Fernando Valley, and tried to capture them with a digital
camera, but the battery died. I am an employee of a public
utility and my husband is a welder. We are not usually awake at
this hour, but we were preparing to go on vacation.

VANDENBERG AIR FORCE BASE, Calif. (AP) - An Air Force missile
test provided a spectacular light show seen over California and
much of the West, on September 19, 2002. The colorful contrail
was seen soon after the unarmed Minuteman III intercontinental
ballistic missile blasted off at 7:36 p.m. from an underground
silo at the Vandenberg Air Force Base north of Santa Barbara.
"The smoke went up in spirals as the sun was setting and turned
into an orange, amber color. It was like a flower going into
bloom pretty quickly. The missile traveled 4,200 miles in about
30 minutes, striking a predetermined target at the Kwajalein
Missile Range in the Pacific to test the missile's accuracy. "We
do this several times a year, but because the weather was so
perfect we decided to launch early and people were still awake
to see it. Even though the sun was below the horizon it glinted
off unspent fuel particles and water droplets. "Several people
reported the sighting to the UFO Reporting C enter. The mission
was directed by the 576th Flight Test Squadron and the 341th
Space Wing from Malmstrom Air Force Base in Montana.

Editors Note: Many people made reports of the launch, although
some reported it might be a UFO heading straight up. The reports
were reasonably accurate indicating that similar reports of UFOs
are also fairly accurate. I estimate about a third of the
sightings carried in these files are genuine UFOs of unknown
origin. On occasion missile launches have also been accompanied
by UFOs.

OREGON SIGHTING OF BEAM FROM THE GROUND TO AIR

PORTLAND -- An amateur astronomer and aviation enthusiast
reports, that on September 17, 2002, I saw a fluorescent
blue/purple beam like a thin streak of lightning descend from
the sky to , ground at 11:30 PM. This beam was relatively dim
but very clearly connected to the ground 1/4-mile south from my
location. Following the beam upwards, it grew dimmer with
distance, becoming invisible to the eye at about 250 meters,
higher up, I spotted an aircraft flying at 2,500 feet moving
south with a steady dim red light between the two white strobes.
The strobes were blinking together, at an interval of two quick
strobes in rapid succession separated by 3/4 second between
bursts. The strange beam appeared to be literally connected to
this aircraft, although at that distance I could not confirm
this due to the beam becoming too dim at that altitude.

As the craft passed overhead the angle of the beam changed
precisely as if it was fixed to a ground location. The width was
a toothpick held at arm's length. I lost sight of the aircraft
several times, but needed only to follow the path of this beam
upwards to relocate the aircraft's position. The angle of the
beam changed from and angle of 60, to 90 degrees straight up,
and to 45 degrees precisely in unison with the aircraft as
though it were a tether attached to the aircraft and fixed to
the ground. Through my binoculars the beam appeared un-solid,
quite wide and wavy, similar to lightening or electricity. I
awoke my wife and she confirmed what I was seeing. I drove in my
car to directly below the beam in about a minute, but it
disappeared. The total duration of this sighting was eight
minutes. My father is an international pilot, and we have
discussed the many highly strange natural phenomena that he
observes regularly during his flight paths over the Atlantic and
Pacific Oceans and the Arctic. My understanding is that this
phenomenon is completely unique. Thanks to Peter Davenport [
http://www.ufocenter.com/ ]NUFORC

BANKS -- It was hovering about two miles away at a pretty high
altitude on September 19, 2002. The witness states, "I thought
it was a B-2, or one of those old Flying Wings hovering for
about one minute." At 11 PM, it looked like a blackish dark gray
B-2 bomber, but then it shot sharply forward only to slow down
and stop. It then hovered for about another minute and then it
shot up at an angle into the sky and disappeared. I saw a UFO
when I was 10 years old, but I haven't been looking for them
since. I have a major knowledge of aviation so, I can tell the
differences between aircraft made in this world, and I know that
wasn't something I've ever heard of or seen before. I don't know
if it was making any noise due to a Cessna flying circles over
head. I called the local Hillsboro Airport and they were not
tracking anything in that direction, but they said that it was
probably a military jet from the Portland Airbase. The base only
has F-15s fighters, and they can't do what this did around here.
This was a UFO. Thanks to Peter Davenport

WASHINGTON SIGHTINGS CONTINUE

SEATTLE -- A woman called to report just having witnessed a very
large, cigar-shaped object doing maneuvers in the western sky on
September 18, 2002, viewed from near the corner of Airport Way
and Spokane Avenue in south Seattle at 7:15 PM. The witness
described the object as being disc-like, or perhaps shaped like
a cigar, with a distinct bulge on the top, and with several
lights along the side, flashing in sequence from left to right.
The object maneuvered to a considerable degree, executing a
circular path, at one point. It appeared to the witnesses to be
quite large, perhaps "three times the size of a Boeing 747." The
witnesses stopped their vehicle, and attempted to draw the
attention of other drivers to the object, but not one either
stopped, or took notice of the object. NUFORC Note: We asked the
witness whether she thought the object might have been a blimp,
and she insisted it was not. She and her boyfriend reside near
Boeing Field, and they feel they are quite familiar with all
types of aircraft.

SPOKANE-- On September 14, 2002, three unidentified flying
objects were flying from east to west at 5:15 AM and then many
jets followed. The witness reports, "Early in the morning, I
heard a noise that blended in with the sound of the freeway
nearby downtown Spokane, it sounded like a Volkswagen bug or
chopper sound mixed with a kind of whirring or whishing
frequency, that went swish. So the sound went chuck chuk chuk
whishzzzz, it was very mechanical. I looked out my second story
window and noticed a cat on the front lawn who was uncannily
looking up at the sky toward the east, that's when I saw a solid
white light moving towards me. The light made some loops, half
moons, figure eight, and right angles. I woke my girlfriend, and
asked her to look and listen. She heard it. I sat down for 20
minutes watching it hover with a bobbing motion. I then saw a
second object to the southeast and they both stopped for about 8
minutes, and then they starting moving again.

The first one did some pretty impossible moves and angles, and I
saw the additional lights come on. There where three with one at
the top and two on the bottom. It then went back to one light,
and cycled to 2 lights before retiring to one light. It then
appeared to move far away and fade and then move close and
brighten, this happened numerous times, before stopping and
freezing again. Then the second light which was quickly flashing
blue white and green made some very acrobatic movements which
are not possible within our technology. It stopped moving at the
same time as the first object, and was joined by a third object
briefly that was between the first two. It then faded away. The
other two objects hovered. I went upstairs, looked out the
window and the first object was gone, then reappeared, the
second object moved rapidly towards the south, then the first
object reappeared, disappeared, and reappeared a large distance
to the east of its original position. Thus going point t o point
in a triangle disappearing and reappearing like it teleported
almost, and then disappeared altogether, the second object still
moving, just vanished about 3 minutes after that. I saw a very
high speed jet come through the direct path heading west, like
it was in pursuit. Thanks to Peter Davenport

CANADA UFOs CONTINUE

MONTREAL, QUEBEC -- The witness was driving south on the
Champlain Bridge September 27, 2002, during a rainy night and
caught something out of the corner of his eye at the highest
point of the bridge when he saw what looked liked a plane flying
extremely low. The witness stated, "The lights flew over the
bridge in a horizontal flight pattern (it slowed down when
crossing over the bridge) I then had a good look at the light
formation at 7:40 PM. It then increased speed, where it broke
its flight line at a right angle going up into the sky over St-
Lambert. As I was driving under the structure, I realized that
what I was looking at, was not a plane or anything else I had
seen before. It seemed that cars slowed down. I was stunned.
The basic shape of the craft looked like a small square which is
wider at the top, almost like a truncated triangle or a
geometric 'U' that widens half way up. The whole thing was the
size of the small truck. I have a f eeling I was looking at the
end of the craft because I saw a light formation with lights
that were circular, flat and red, like you would see on the rear
of cars in the fifties. The lights were not 'bulb like' but
extremely flat, and the size of a dinner plate. Four lights on
each side and three at the bottom of the geometric 'U'. Thanks
to Brian Vike.

HAMILTON, ONTARIO -- The witness was sitting in his hot tub
looking up into an unusually clear night on September 11, 2002,
and noticed at least three times faint lights moving across the
sky at 2:22 AM. At first, I thought it was light from a
searchlight. Two minutes later, a triangular formation of three
lights came into view, traveling incredibly fast from NNW to
SSE. It was six seconds from the time they came into view until
they passed out of view behind the roof of my south-side
neighbor's house. This is sixty five percent of the sky along
the flight path. I did not see any metallic type of craft, only
three distinct, equally bright lights that were a dull yellow
color, and not sharp, but rather fuzzy, as if slightly out of
focus. Each light was, I would guess, to be about the size of a
dime at arm's length, spaced about triple that length apart,
with the two trailing lights about sixty degrees off from the
leading light.

LEDUC, ALBERTA -- On September 15, 2002, at 2:45 AM, Denny Unger
decided to step outside on a clear and windless night and saw
three points of light forming a flying triangle. My first
thought was that I was having a dizzy spell so I refocused, and
the lights were there. Thirty seconds later the flying triangle
of lights changed direction from north to east. The object was
either very large or very low and appeared to blot out passing
stars without sound. The lights on each tip were solid white,
but of very low intensity. There was a distinct impression that
the corner lights were used to camouflage the object and it was
doing its best not to be seen. It was completely silent. I
entered the house and grabbed my digital video camera, and began
filming the object but soon lost sight of it as it flew behind a
neighbor's home. I attempted to follow but lost it. This was all
captured on video but the triangular formation of lights could
not be resolved on film. Leduc is southeast of the Edmonton
International Airport and I can tell you with the authority of
living near the strip for over 10 years that this was NOT A
PLANE. The object was far too huge to be compared to anything
I've seen in our local skies. "Heavens Above" satellite tracking
system (www.heavens-above.com) listed no satellites for my area.
You have my permission to reveal my e-mail and name. I believe
this willingness lends a great deal to credibility. Thanks to
Denny Unger www.darkplanetonline.com darkplanet@shaw.ca

MEXICO DIGITAL PHOTOS TAKEN OF UFO

LAS GAVIOTAS/BAJA -- While reviewing pictures I had taken of the
ocean view directly in front of my vacation rental, I discovered
an image that was captured by my digital camera on one of my
pictures taken on September 13, 2002. I've never seen anything
like it. Any interferences or obstacles have been unquestionably
ruled out. The picture that I took of the exact same view, 30
seconds previously, shows no image whatsoever at about 7 PM. I
know that this is a rare and special picture that I
photographed. A flash moving slow at first, changes into a
spherical shape, circles, and races west, leaving behind a hazy
greenish smoke trail.

PERUVIAN AIR FORCE RESEARCHES UFOs

LIMA -- The Herald reports," Of all the officers in all the
armed forces of the world, perhaps none has a more unusual job
than Peruvian Air Force Commander Julio Chamorro: to investigate
-- and perhaps prove -- the existence of UFOs. As head of the
Office to Investigate Aerial Phenomena, Chamorro directs a
seven-member team in charge of studying what he calls
``anomalies that could cause problems with aviation.''
Ostensibly, the office investigates planes that veer off course
and hang gliders that steer too close to military bases, but
that's not the crux of the work.

Of the hundreds of calls received each month by the office,
Chamorro says at least half are to report UFO sightings. And
Chamorro believes many are credible. ''There are several
mysteries that we believe are highly important and which merit
our full attention,'' Chamorro said. ``If we can arrive at
definitive conclusions, our work will be highly beneficial to
Peru and all of humanity. Just think about the technological
advances if we can definitely prove the existence of
spacecrafts.'' Chamorro estimates that 60 percent of Peru's
population has seen an unexplainable event in the sky. He says
about a dozen each month are credible UFO sightings with no easy
explanation. For example, the video taken in Chulucanas, Piura,
at the end of 2001. Chamorro says it shows a huge ship sitting
in the sky for nearly two hours. ''The ship made no noise and
did not move. You can see the shape, which includes even
windows,'' Chamorro said. Chulucanas has a long history of UFO
sightings, he added. Chamorro's office was officially organized
two years ago, but the Peruvian government's interest in UFOs
goes back decades, and there is archaeological evidence that
ancient cultures were also hooked on other-worldly phenomena.
Thanks to Lucien O. Chauvin Lima Herald and Scott Corrales

ARGENTINA POLICE SPOT EIGHT UFOs

SAMPACHO --Police officers in Cordoba Province, "report they
have witnessed numerous circular and luminous objects performing
wobbly maneuvers in the night sky. The objects were seen at a
great distance but other police officers were contacted in an
outpost in Conechingones, with the object appearing and hovering
over tall hills. Police on patrol in the region last saw the
phenomenon on September 6, 2002, at around 10 PM. Two of the
officers in the town of Sampacho were radioed and they spotted
the red glow of eight hovering UFOs over the hill at an altitude
of 1,500 meters for several minutes.. The UFOs made no sound.
Thanks to Mario Luis Bracamonte del Servicio Informativo
Ovnilogico de Argentina.

UNITED ARAB EMIRATES YELLOW SPHERE

DUBAI -- The witness was lying on the beach on September 13,
2002, on a clear cloudless night at 10 PM, when he suddenly saw
a flash across the sky moving very slow at first. Then in a
split second the shape changed into something spherical, and it
seemed to stop for a moment and then circled as though it was
searching for something. The UFO was yellow and then suddenly
raced west, leaving a thin trail of greenish violet, hazy kind
of smoke trail.

UFO DEFENSE TACTICS - WEATHER SHIELD TO CHEMTRAILS

A. K. Johnstone, Ph.D., explores with evidence, the creation of
a weather shield to deter UFOs from entering earth's atmosphere,
as well as the erratic weather changes in recent years. Numerous
UFO sightings are examined from a scientific viewpoint,
including plasma sheaths and fireballs. Order illustrated book,
$14.95 from Hancock House 1-800-938-1114.

NEW JERSEY CONFERENCE

Pat Marcatillio is holding a UFO conference in Bordentown, NJ on
October 12 and 13 at the Days' Inn. Ingo Swann, David Jacobs,
Tom Van Flandern, Jim Moseley, Bruce Maccabee and others will be
speaking. Details are at--http://www.drufo.org.

SCIFI.COM -- "Join me for an online chat Wednesday, October 9,
at 9 p.m. ET/6p.m. PT, at www.scifi.com. We'll discuss UFO
sightings and I'll be available to answer your questions.

ONE STOP SHOPPING AT 100 TOP STORES ONLINE

Consider shopping at: [ http://www.filer.unfranchise.com/
]FILER.unfranchise.com for your Holiday gifts. You can shop on
line in a hundred different stores such as Ashlane Gift Baskets,
Books, Diamonds, Disney, Sweaters from Elizabeth's by Liz
Claiborne, Fragrances, Hallmark cards and flowers, Health and
Nutrition to obtain optimum health, Jewelry, Toy Chest,
Wine.Com. There is a store for your every special need, and you
qualify as a preferred customer by reading these files, and you
usually will qualify for special discounts.

WHAT YOU SHOULD KNOW WHEN HIRING A REAL ESTATE AGENT! Learn how
you can obtain the best real estate agent for your needs. To get
a free copy of this report e-mail me at Majorstar@aol.com

MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative
reports subscribe to the MUFON JOURNAL. A MUFON membership
includes the Journal and costs only $35.00 per year. To join
MUFON or to report a UFO go to http://www.mufon.com/. To ask
questions contact MUFONHQ@aol.com or HQ@mufon.com. Mention that
I recommended you for membership.

Filer's Files is copyrighted 2002 by George A. Filer, all rights
reserved. Readers may post the complete files on their Web Sites
if they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list
the date of issue that the item appeared. These reports and
comments are not necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON viewpoint. Send
your letters to Majorstar@aol.com. Sending mail automatically
grants permission for us to publish and use your name. Please
state if you wish to keep your name, address, or story
confidential. CAUTION, MOST OF THESE ARE INITIAL REPORTS AND
REQUIRE FURTHER INVESTIGATION.

Regards,

George Filer










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   Oct > Oct 2

                          Secrecy News -- 10/02/02

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 10:35:09 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 19:30:38 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 10/02/02


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2002, Issue No. 97
October 2, 2002


**      CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE TEST
**      INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY ANNUAL REPORT
**      JOINT INQUIRY ON INFORMATION SHARING
**      NEW RESOURCES FROM THE JUSTICE DEPT
**      TWO FACES OF ISLAM


CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE TEST

The Central Intelligence Agency's refusal to declassify the
intelligence budget totals from 1947 and 1948 -- on grounds that
to do so could supposedly damage national security -- has a
significance far beyond the limited historical interest of the
budget figures themselves.

The function of intelligence is to anticipate and assess threats
to the national security. So when an intelligence agency makes
such a radical error in judgment about a national security
threat, it is failing in its primary mission.

It remains unclear whether CIA officials honestly believe that
publication of the 1947 and 1948 budget totals could damage the
security of the United States, in which case they are remarkably
incompetent, or whether they are simply using bogus national
security claims to evade the requirements of the Freedom of
Information Act, in which case they are acting in bad faith and
in violation of the law.

Either way, the dispute serves as a reminder that CIA threat
assessments are not intrinsically reliable and must be
scrutinized for bureaucratic self-interest.

A Federation of American Scientists lawsuit seeking to compel
declassification of intelligence budget information was
spotlighted in a Washington Post editorial today entitled
"Central Intelligence Test":

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A30208-
2002Oct1.html


INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY ANNUAL REPORT

The Director of Central Intelligence quietly issued "The 2001
Annual Report of the United States Intelligence Community" last
month.

The report, dated February 2002 and stealthily published in
early September, acknowledges "the catastrophic events of 11
September 2001" but does not include anything resembling the
phrase "intelligence failure."

The unclassified report surveys the diverse activities of the
intelligence community's component agencies in supporting
national policymakers, military operations, law enforcement and
counterintelligence.

Along with a generous amount of boilerplate, the new report
includes a number of interesting observations and a few new
details of intelligence agency operations.

See "The 2001 Annual Report of the United States Intelligence
Community" here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/cia/product/2001report.html

The National Intelligence Council, which is distinguished by its
open interaction with researchers outside of the intelligence
community, continues to produce useful and interesting
publications including, most recently, these:

"The Next Wave of HIV/AIDS: Nigeria, Ethiopia, Russia, India,
and China," September 2002:

http://www.fas.org/irp/nic/hiv-aids.html

"Workshop on Information Technology in Africa," May 2002 (3MB
PDF file):

http://www.fas.org/irp/nic/Africa_IT.pdf


JOINT INQUIRY ON INFORMATION SHARING

"The U.S. government spends about $50 billion per year on
information technology, but the systems purchased are not
compatible between the agencies of the federal government, or
with state and local entities," observed Eleanor Hill, staff
director of the congressional Joint Inquiry into September 11.

The assorted obstacles to the effective sharing of vital
security information leading up to September 11 were explored in
Ms. Hill's October 1 testimony on "Counterterrorism Information
Sharing With Other Federal Agencies and with State and Local
Governments and the Private Sector," available here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2002_hr/100102hill.html

Other testimony from the October 1 hearing on this vital topic,
including a statement for the record from the General Accounting
Office, may be found here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2002_hr/index.html#joint6

"The intelligence oversight process certainly has its 'moments'
(one of which is right now), but its overall performance seems
designed to protect a dinosaur," writes Russ Baker in a critical
review of congressional oversight of intelligence. See his
article "Chill on the Hill" in the October 14 issue of The
Nation here:

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i021014&s=baker


NEW RESOURCES FROM THE JUSTICE DEPT

A new Justice Department Inspector General report finds that
"The FBI has never performed a comprehensive written assessment
of the risk of the terrorist threat facing the United States.
Such an assessment would be useful not only to define the
nature, likelihood, and severity of the threat but also to
identify intelligence gaps that needed to be addressed." See
the report's unclassified executive summary here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/doj/oig/fbi02sum.html

The FBI responded to the new Inspector General report in an
October 1 press statement here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2002/10/fbi100102.html

Attorney General John Ashcroft engaged the critics of his
Department's policies in a defiant speech to a U.S. Attorney's
conference on October 1. "The critics call for a return to a
culture of inhibition, which, in fact, existed prior to
September 11, 2001. It was a culture whose law gave terrorists a
technological advantage over law enforcement," he said. See:

http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2002/10/ag100102.html

A considerable number of significant and interesting judicial
decisions in Freedom of Information Act lawsuits were issued in
the last three months. See "New FOIA Decisions, July-September
2002" published by the Justice Department's Office of
Information and Privacy:

http://www.usdoj.gov/oip/foiapost/2002foiapost24.htm


TWO FACES OF ISLAM

"I want to live among Muslims for a good long time, especially
where their faith is most devout," Friedrich Nietzsche wrote in
a March 13, 1881 letter. "In this way I expect to hone my
appraisement and my eye for all that is European."

The philosopher never realized this surprising plan. But in a
somewhat similar maneuver of distancing, immersion and altered
perspective, journalist Stephen Schwartz went to live in the
Islamic communities of the Balkans for several years and came
away with an unfashionable love for Islamic tradition and the
possibilities it offers for human greatness.

 >From this vantage point, he also became a fierce critic of
Wahhabism, the influential puritanical strain of Islam sponsored
by the Saudi government and linked through radical clerics to
extremism and violence.

Schwartz makes his provocative case in a new book entitled "The
Two Faces of Islam: The House of Sa'ud From Tradition to
Terror." The book's political valence may be gauged from the
fact that it carries admiring blurbs from both William Kristol
of The Weekly Standard and Christopher Hitchens, formerly of The
Nation.

For more information, see:

http://www.randomhouse.com/doubleday/display.pperl?isbn=0385506929

Secrecy News welcomes review copies of new books on non-UFO-
related topics.

_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:  www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email: saftergood@fas.org
voice: (202) 454-4691







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   Oct > Oct 2

               Re: C.A. Honey & Alien Structures On The Moon -

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 10:11:11 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 19:32:25 -0400
Subject: Re: C.A. Honey & Alien Structures On The Moon -


 >From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 20:18:37 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
 >Subject: Re: C.A. Honey & Alien Structures On The Moon

 >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 15:47:54 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: C.A. Honey & Alien Structures On The Moon

 >>>From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 13:38:32 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
 >>>Subject: C.A. Honey & Alien Structures On The Moon


Hi, Nick,

A very quick note as I head out of town toward Chicago and the
CUFOS board meeting on Saturday.....

 >Since we are on this topic, prominent ufological figures such as
 >Wilbert B. Smith and Dr. Steven M. Greer have also allegedly
 >made contact with E.T.s through non-direct means (radio waves
 >and remoting writing by others in the case for Smith and
 >flashlights for Greer). Would you consider them as contactees
 >too, or at least a special type?

I don't know much about Greer, but I do know a fair amount about
Wilbert Smith. I wouldn't call him personally a contactee,
though he certainly was in sympathy with contactees and
participated in sessions in which he observed channeling and
interacted with the alleged channeled entities.

 >Getting back to the original theme of my e-mail, what are your
 >thoughts regarding Don Wilson and his well documented thesis
 >that our Moon is really a giant UFO? There is certainly a lot
 >more in support of this case than the Moon being made of green
 >cheese! "The world is full of obvious things which nobody by any
 >chance ever observes." Sherlock Holmes once said. Could
 >ufologists have overlooked something so evident all this time?
 >Maybe the idea has come up but because it seemed so absurd, we
 >self-debunked it.

I don't believe the moon is a giant UFO.


Cordially,

Jerry Clark








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                 Re: Falsified and Fabricated Data - Warren

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren@pacbell.net>
Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 08:52:41 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 19:35:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Falsified and Fabricated Data - Warren


 >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 13:03:20 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Falsified and Fabricated Data

 >>From: Gregory Gutierez <greguti@free.fr>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto (<ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 20:54:15 +0200
 >>Subject: Re: Falsified and Fabricated Data

 >>>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 07:58:54 -0700
 >>>Subject: Re: Falsified and Fabricated Data

 >>>- What was the exact surface of the remains found?

 >>>My understanding was that it had a rough grey matte surface,
 >>with a decent tooth, which would admit some use of charcoals,
 >>but which argues against oils.

 >>Please excuse my English, sometimes I lack the right words.

 >>With my question "What was the exact surface of the remains?" I
 >>wanted to ask: what were the length and width of the territory
 >>covered by the debris? The size of it is an important point in
 >>order to find what exactly crashed that day near Roswell.

 >>Thanks a lot for your kind answer,

 >Ahh! The surface area! I understand it was quite large, spread
 >all over the place. It could have been something like an acre,
 >but Stanton Friedman probably has the best answer for that.

 >Sorry for the misunderstanding.


Hello Gregg & Larry & All,

Since Stan is on the road, I'll offer the information; "Weighing
heavily against the scattered wreckage being any sort of balloon
was its condition; pieces were spread out of and area more then
250,000 square feet ('200 yards in diameter')

-Page 82, "Crash At Corona."

Frank








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               Re: Alien Abductors Just Being Friendly - Jones

From: Steve Jones <stvjns@gargoylemechanique.com>
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 14:19:06 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 21:13:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Abductors Just Being Friendly - Jones


 >From: Jean Meiners <legalco2002@yahoo.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 06:32:21 -0700 (PDT)
 >Subject: Re: Alien Abductors Just Being Friendly

 >>From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 02:31:07 +0200
 >>Subject: Alien Abductors Just Being Friendly

 >>Source: Calgary Herald

 >http://www.canada.com/calgary/story.asp?id=0621D492-4268-41F9-83B1-015E05B6CDE
E

 >>Stig

 >>***

 >>Aliens just being friendly

 >>Bring message of hope, says researcher

 >>The Canadian Press

 >>Monday, September 30, 2002

 >>**

 ><snip>

 >Maybe if these researchers had undergone an abduction or two or
 >three or a lifetime like so many abductees they wouldn't be so
 >swift to say that these "affable" visitors are so affable; or,
 >that these "friendly" visitors are so friendly.

 >Possibly these "affable" and "friendly" visitors just wish for
 >us to think that they are. The best invasion is one where the
 >people think you are their saviour, their benefactor, their
 >"friend". That way they have no defense... we wouldn't need
 >to.

 >After everything I have read here on this List, after everything
 >I have read on other Lists of this type, and most definitely
 >after everything I have seen, undergone, witnessed, I prefer to
 >keep my hands behind my back instead of out in front of me
 >welcoming these "affable friends".

 >My hands _and_ my mind may be the only thing left to me when
 >they are done.

 >An "affable friendly" invasion is still an invasion.

 >Jean

 >"Been there, done that and wouldn't wish it on my
 >worst enemy!"

--- Its not just with the ETs where we have this difficult
challenge of awareness; "are they good or are they bad?"

I have met Americans who were extremely friendly and going out
of their way to help others whom they didnt know in a sincere
act of pure humanity and good will.

I have also beeen 'abducted' by Americans who were mindlessly
bent on selfish destruction, absolutely careless about my, or
anybody else's well-being, blinded by their arrogance, confusion
and greed. In both examples, they were Americans surprising me
with their unexpected 'agenda'.

Like Jean above and other trauma victims, I might find it
outrageous to encounter someone who believed that all American
forces are Good and True. Watching cheerful Ronald McDonald
privatize and then burn down the rainforest to create
destructive un-natural overpopulation of cows can be either
horrifying or delightful depending on whose 'filter' you are
watching through.

For me to respond to my experiences with a declaration that
"Americans are Bad", or "Americans are Good" is equally empty of
any real value for me or anybody else, and ultimately is as
destructive as any Earthling who declares "Aliens" are good or
"Aliens" are bad. In fact, the later is even MORE destructive
considering the fact that "Americans" is a vastly smaller 'set'
than "Aliens", which encompasses the entire Universe outside of
(apparently Earthling) homo-sapiens. Like racism, this
xenophobic attitude belies a debilitating disease of the mind
born of confusion, fear and deep 'conditioning'.

There appears to be a huge spectrum of so-called 'Alien'
interactions, only some of which are at all negative, and some
of those are a perception issue rather than any real physical
discomfort.

For example, when UFOs deactivated the American nuclear bombs,
that was percieved as very very bad by 'the Authorities'.

On the other hand, I could state with absolute certainty that
reverand this-and-that is a person of Good Will, and that
president Such-and-so is a dangerous enemy of humanity. And
equally, someone could state, based on their own experience,
that people they met in craft X were tremendously helpful while
people they met in craft Z were terrifying.

Generalizations can be like bombs dropped out of an airplane
onto cities below. You destroy the Good along with the difficult
challenges you are addressing, which adds up to a selfish deed
in ignorance and fear. All Americans are not evil though I may
think some of them are, and neither are all ETs evil.

I am glad I have learned this so I can be a more responsible
citizen and human being.

In the same way that we are taught to accept being controlled by
the corporations, banks and lawyers, forces from outside of our
Natural family who capture and 'privatize' what was once our
world, we might accept being controlled by beings of higher
evolution, also from outside of our natural family. And if not
the ET's, then it is logical to say "not" to the WTO as well.
Because the real issue is Who controls you and me.

--- stv








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               Re: C.A. Honey & Alien Structures On The Moon -

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 15:23:47 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 21:17:06 -0400
Subject: Re: C.A. Honey & Alien Structures On The Moon -


 >From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 20:18:37 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
 >Subject: Re: C.A. Honey & Alien Structures On The Moon

 >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 15:47:54 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: C.A. Honey & Alien Structures On The Moon

 >>>From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 13:38:32 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
 >>>Subject: C.A. Honey & Alien Structures On The Moon

 >>>On September 21, C.A. Honey was one of Errol's guests on his
 >>>'Strange Days... Indeed' radio program about UFOs (episode 207).
 >>>Honey was a ghost writer for the famous abductee, George
 >>>Adamski.

 >>My word. Adamski was no abductee. He was one of the original and
 >>most influential contactees. There is a distinction both
 >>socially and experientially that serves no one's interest to
 >>treat cavalierly. It is true that at some points, on occasion,
 >>abduction experience and contact claim may overlap, but
 >>differences are fundamental. The two kinds of phenomena also
 >>have separate histories. I have written extensively on both

 >Hi Jerry!

 >I'm sorry! I really meant to say contactee but wrote abductee
 >instead. Thank you for noticing my mistake and clarifying the
 >obvious differences between the two.

 >Since we are on this topic, prominent ufological figures such as
 >Wilbert B. Smith and Dr. Steven M. Greer have also allegedly
 >made contact with E.T.s through non-direct means (radio waves
 >and remoting writing by others in the case for Smith and
 >flashlights for Greer). Would you consider them as contactees
 >too, or at least a special type?

 >Getting back to the original theme of my e-mail, what are your
 >thoughts regarding Don Wilson and his well documented thesis
 >that our Moon is really a giant UFO? There is certainly a lot
 >more in support of this case than the Moon being made of green
 >cheese! "The world is full of obvious things which nobody by any
 >chance ever observes." Sherlock Holmes once said. Could
 >ufologists have overlooked something so evident all this time?
 >Maybe the idea has come up but because it seemed so absurd, we
 >self-debunked it.

 >Nick Balaskas

Nick,

You seem to be back to your curious notion that since anything
is possible that any possibilities are equiprobable or likely to
be true.

Aliens have cleverly arranged for their "spaceship" to contain
lunar dust made of familiar minerals, craters within craters
from constant meteoritic bombardment, rocks, etc. Very clever
camouflage indeed, and about as absurd an idea as can be
imagined.

Personally, I think the Earth is a cleverly disguised alien
spaceship. Just look at all the alien creatures disguising
themselves as humans!

- Dick









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                             Re: Symbols - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 15:36:37 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 21:19:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Symbols - Hall


 >From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 03:33:10 +0200
 >Subject: Re: Symbols

 >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 19:09:44 +0000
 >>Subject: Re: Symbols

 >>If the issue (question) is how to determine consistency of
 >>abductee drawings from hundreds of independent sources, that
 >>doesn't take language experts! I suggested one means of
 >>establishing the consistency which many of us already know
 >>exists. If the issue is trying to demonstrate some intelligence
 >>or logic behind the writings that would tell us something about
 >>the aliens, then maybe linguists and cryptoanalysts would have
 >>something to offer, though I have trouble imagining a good
 >>experiment in that line. It is up to the proponents of any
 >>suggested line of research like these to suggest meaningful ways
 >>of going about them.

 >>I have met abductees ranging from poor, blue collar, uneducated
 >>to wealthy, highly educated, and sophisticated, and all stages
 >>in between. You, John, are one of the most articulate of all.
 >>Your contributions may be having a greater effect than you
 >>realize. So don't despair. There's more than one way to skin an
 >>alien.

 >Dick,

 >You have won the Super Prize for the language of surreal
 >semiotic symbology.

 >"There's more than one way to skin an alien".

 >A classic line to further our quest.

 >It would be a good one for you to use as a title of your
 >autobiography or someone's biography of your multi-decade quest.

Josh,

An excellent idea! Now if I can only find a publisher.

 >Do any aliens have tattoos?

 >Back out to my orbit around UFO UpDates.

 >Good orbits,

By the way, the alleged alien (abductee) writings or language
examples we are talking about do not in any way resemble
anything I have seen yet attributed to "archetypal symbols." I
don't even think the word "symbol" is appropriate. These are
more in the nature of writing or lettering, a language of some
kind perhaps. That's why I asked for some specific examples of
Jungian (or other) symbols.

I simply don't have time to dig around on my own for samples.
I'm too busy trying to survive loss of my retirement funds
attributable to the corporate axis of evil.

My posts on this List are a form of entertainemnt or diversion
for me, and I hope to contribute some information, ideas, or
insights from my long experience.


  - Dick











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                            Re: Symbols - Randle

From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 11:51:18 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 21:21:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Symbols - Randle


 >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 08:43:10 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Symbols

 >>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 23:11:31 -0700
 >>Subject: Re: Symbols

 >[speaking of "PSI Factor" Jim responded]

 >>I think I've watched that show maybe once. As to how much is
 >>fiction... I recall a show in the 70's called "Project UFO" that
 >>was supposedly based on actual case files from Project Blue
 >>Book. While I'm not intimately familiar with Blue Book cases,
 >>the episodes seemed a little too 'strained' to be real. And I
 >>believe I read elsewhere that they mostly made it up, figuring
 >>no one watching had actually read any Blue Book files. Does
 >>anyone else recall that show?

 >It's interesting that one of the executive producers on 'Project
 >UFO' (which aired in 1978-79) appears to have been Jack Webb,
 >who was made famous by 'Dragnet'.

The program began shortly after the Project Blue Book files were
released into the public arena. We can all thank Jack Webb
because he paid the fees to have the files microfilmed. I know
that I have benefited from that. I have a complete set of the
Blue Book files.

And, as the program aired, I had already been through the files
so I understood what it meant when they suggested the shows were
based on true stories. Someone read a file and then invented a
story that followed, more or less, that case. I recognized the
Zamora case, though it was heavily fictionalized.

Back in the old days, when there were several UFO oriented
magazines, I wrote a review for one outlining all of this. I
mentioned that Webb, who appeared on Johnny Carson's show to
promote the new series, even made comments that were not
reflected in reality. He had a basic knowledge of UFOs, but
didn't fully understand what was happening. He was just there to
promote the show, which, I believe, lasted a season and a
half... or maybe it was a mid-season replacement and then
disappeared.


KRandle







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                            Re: Symbols - Warren

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren@pacbell.net>
Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 10:00:16 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 21:27:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Symbols - Warren


 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 14:37:20 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Symbols

<snip>

 >You bet I am familiar with 'mindscan.' Intimately. I wish I knew
 >an effective way to eliminate those memories and images from my
 >mind.

 >Any suggestions? :)



John,

Wow! I must say that I always read your posts with great interest
and fervor. This particular post stirred a few emotions to put it
mildly. Considering the pain and anguish you have obviously suffered
John, one can only hope that the work you have done and continue
to do offers some small form of retribution. If you can find solace in
these I words I offer, then please take them as a token of "my
personal thanks and gratitude" for your efforts in this grand
undertaking of the enlightenment of your fellow man.


Warmest Regards,

Frank Warren







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                          Re: Abductee Fear - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 12:33:25 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 21:29:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Abductee Fear - Velez


 >From: David Acres <dacres@austarnet.com.au>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 00:57:30 +1000
 >Subject: Re: Abductee Fear

 >>From: Dave Morton <Marspyrs@aol.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 06:01:52 EDT
 >>Subject: Abductee Fear

 ><snip>

 >>So, for what it's worth, I can now more easily relate to the
 >>fear and anxiety of many abductees.

 >Dave, imagine you are Jewish, living in Nazi Germany during WW2!
 >You are pulled from your bed & are bound, gagged, rendered
 >helpless! You don't know what they want, you've done nothing!
 >Are you going to suffer? Will you ever see your family & loved
 >ones again?

 >I too, can imagine the shock & horror they must feel upon
 >conscious realization of abduction!

 >>If the ET's came in peace,
 >>explained their mission, asked permission of their subjects,
 >>didn't erase memories and scoop out samples of homo sapien flesh
 >>(in some cases), and didn't "stare" at their subjects up close,
 >>I think it would be FAR less frightening.

 >You raise a good point, they could get all the scoops they
 >wanted if they just introduced themselves, got government
 >approval & set up clinics like the blood banks & just paid their
 >way! ;)

 >Something I read by, I think, Dr. Karla Wilson?,

<snip>

 >BTW I note a reference on John Velez's site, to a Katharina
 >Wilson, so there's a chance the names may have been confused, by
 >someone?

Hi Dave,

I think you have the late "Dr. Karla Turner" confused with
'Katarina Wilson' (alive and kicking). Although they are both
'abductees' they are two very different women.

BTW, Katarina wishes to maintain a little privacy these days
because of a new job/work. Out of respect for her wishes, we
should refrain from using her name on this very public List
unless it is absolutely necessary.  I do miss having her around
though.

Regards,

John Velez


Sign the International Petition to the United Nations
for disclosure of information pertaining to UFOs.

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition








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                             Re: Symbols - Velez

From: John <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 15:24:25 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 21:33:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Symbols - Velez


 >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 19:09:44 +0000
 >Subject: Re: Symbols

 >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 13:25:31 -0400
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Subject: Re: Symbols

 >>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 20:54:31 +0000
 >>>Subject: Re: Symbols

<snip>

Hi Dick,

You wrote:

 >I didn't mean to sound a discouraging note, nor am I saying that
 >nothing can be done. I'm just saying that first you have to ask
 >the right questions. Just the philosopher in me talking. (:

That's ok Dick. Hey man,

... I just need some _answers_!

I haven't pretended to know what the right questions are or what
the proper way to proceed is. All I know is this; three years
ago Stuart Appelle was given samples of alleged alien 'drawings'
from the archives of David Jacobs cases and from Budd Hopkins
cases. (Mine among them)

I just want to know what the hell is going on. It's been years
since I've heard anything.

I leave it to more experienced and educated minds to figure out
the 'right questions' to ask. Or, what procedures to follow. I'm
not an academician or a scientist so I can't really contribute
much or participate in that part of the discussion.

However... now that a dialog has been opened, and people are
actively discussing 'ways' that such a study might be conducted,
I think it's timely and wise of me to gracefully bow out and
simply fade into the background. I have 'reported' (at length
and in great detail) and I allowed people to get an intimate
peep inside my head.

I did my 'thing'.

Now that the ball is rolling, hopefully, I can just sit back and
enjoy the thread and any future developments as an interested
spectator.

I'm popping corn in anticipation as we speak.  :)

Yourself, Greg Sandow, Jim Speiser, Gary Anthony and more
recently Keven Randle, are actively discussing and exchanging
ideas and information as to how best to handle an investigation.
If nothing else is accomplished, we would have at least taken
another baby-step toward getting an eventual analysis of these
samples.

I bow to your 'collective' wisdom and experience.

As one of the subjects of any study into _*these_ drawings, -
*the ones submitted to Stuart Appelle by Budd Hopkins and David
Jacobs- I'm here and at your disposal if I'm needed.

 >Your contributions may be having a greater effect than you
 >realize. So don't despair. There's more than one way to skin an
 >alien.

"Skin an alien?" Hmmm, wonder if they taste like bar-b-que
bovine rectal cores? Umm, yum!  :)

Gemmulmuns, you have the ball. Take it to the hole!

Please.


John Velez
Current Status: Spectator. :)


Sign the International Petition to the United Nations
for disclosure of information pertaining to UFOs.

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition








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               Re: 'X' Marks The Mysterious Planet - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 15:02:07 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 21:35:15 -0400
Subject: Re: 'X' Marks The Mysterious Planet - Balaskas


 >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 23:17:20 -0700
 >Subject: Re: 'X' Marks The Mysterious Planet

 >>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers -
 >>Date: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 4:51 PM
 >>Subject: UFO UpDate: 'X' Marks The Mysterious Planet

<snip>

 >>http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/mld/ledgerenquirer/news/local/4179150.htm

<snip>

 >Is it possible this "Planet X" is responsible for the tiny
 >discrepancy in the speed of... is it Voyager?... I think the
 >story was posted here previously that scientists are scratching
 >their heads over a billionth-of-a-gee slowdown in some
 >spacecraft, couldn't this be another indication of Planet X?

 >And another thing...a billionth of a gee?  Come on, guys,
 >couldn't somebody's calculator be giving off a rounding error or
 >something? Nobody's _that_ good.....

Hi Jim! Hi everyone!

 From what I have read, the Pioneer 10 and Pioneer 11 space
probes which were launched by the U.S. about three decades ago
and are now in the outer regions of our solar system are indeed
slowing down. Since these two space probes are heading out of
the solar system in different directions, it is unlikely that
they are slowing down at the same rate from the gravitational
tug of a single Planet X. Even if there were two Planet Xs, they
would have to be behind the space probes and closer to the
Earth. Such large nearby planets would have been detected a long
time ago.

I would like to propose two incredible but probably more likely
reasons to account for the slowing down of Pioneer 10 and 11. My
second reason, if it is the correct explanation, has enormous
scientific and religious ramifications.

First, it is now known that our solar system is being bombarded
by extrasolar meteors, many of them not much larger than
particles of dust. Space probes passing through this thin flux
of rapidly moving particles would certainly slow down over time
and may account for what is observed with Pioneers 10 and 11.

Second possible reason, and this is very still controversial, is
that the speed of light is slowing down. The lastest article I
have come across is that it could be in the order of about a 1/2
an inch a second per year. If this is so, the signals from the
Pioneer space probes that far away would have arrived a little
sooner than expected, resulting in a smaller than the expected
calculated value for their acceleration "g" making it seem as if
they are slowing down.

A friend and graduate student in physics here at York University
dropped by this morning and we discussed what the implications
of a non-constant speed of light would be. Well, according to
some associates of his who have plotted all the measured speeds
of light along with their error bars over the past few
centuries, it is not possible for a straight line to pass
through them. An exponential curve does pass thorugh all the
error bars. This is experimental proof that not only light is
slowing down, but if we were to interpolate back in time along
our exponential curve we see that the speed of light becomes
infinite about 10,000 years ago. This tells us that light from
the most distant galaxies which seem to be 10,000,000,000 light
years away (correct if we assume the speed of light is
unchanged) no longer imply that the age of the universe is
10,000,000,000 years old but closer to 10,000 years old.

If correct, what does tell us about E.T. civilizations and UFOs?
Well, if they do exist, E.T. civilizations are no more or less
advanced than we are since they came into being at roughly the
same time! This would also explain why they look so much like
us.

What are you thoughts or comments?


Nick Balaskas








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                            Re: Symbols - Sandow

From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 15:32:32 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 21:37:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Symbols - Sandow


 >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 09:54:56 EDT
 >Subject: Re: Symbols

 >Then would we not include the messages given to John Reeves at
 >Brooksville, FL (or rather found by him) and the symbols
 >observed by Jesse Marcel, Sr. and those seen by his son? What
 >about those seen by Bessie Brazel... and those seen on UFOs such
 >as that reported by Lonnie Zamora and in the photographs of the
 >UMMO UFO.

 >Seems to me that there are dozens of sources of alien writing,
 >some of them good and some of them not so good. Wouldn't it make
 >more sense to eliminate those that are clearly from hoaxes up
 >front so that they are not contaminating the sample, put those
 >that are dubious into another pile, and finally lump those that
 >are believed to be authentic into a third?

<snip>

 >The first thing that must be done is to define the sample and
 >provide the protocols for accepting a sample as "authentic".
 >Then we can begin to argue which symbols go where. And I haven't
 >even addressed the problem of alien language and the possibility
 >that the symbols come from more than one source so our lumping
 >them all together might defeat the study before it even begins.

As usual, Kevin raises very good questions.

I'd favor eliminating only the symbols (or whatever they are)
that come from cases we're absolutely sure are hoaxes. Or, come
to think of it, maybe there's no reason even to eliminate those.
It would be interesting, I think, to have every alleged alien
symbol studied without prejudice toward its source. For
instance, suppose we had scholars (in whatever field or fields
would make sense) looking at a large assortment of symbols that
came from all sorts of sources. Some, we'd be pretty sure, would
be hoaxes. Some would come from utterly convinced and terrified
abductees. And some from contactees who are sure the aliens love
them.

The scholars wouldn't be told which symbol came from what kind
of source. They'd be asked, among other things, to put the
symbols in groups. Did any seem similar to each other, at least
in broad general ways. Then it might be interesting to see if
the groups corresponded to the sources. Was there any similarity
among, let's say, the symbols that came from abductees? Would
the scholars see any similarity among the symbols from hoaxes?

We don't know what we're dealing with here, after all. One
possibility is that they're all made up - consciously or
unconsciously - by the people who report them. Or they might all
be truly alien. Or some might be alien and some made up. Since
we don't know, I'm in favor, the more I think of it, of not
excluding anything at all. We might learn as much from the
hoaxes as we do from symbols we might have some reason to
believe might be truly alien.

And then, as Kevin says, the symbols might come from more than
one source. That's a very important though. There might be more
than one alien race visiting us, for instance. Or there might be
one race with several languages, as we have here on Earth. And
let's not forget that we ourselves have various symbols for
various purposes. We (in western countries) have letters,
numbers, Roman numerals,. astological symbols, Morse Code,
musical notation, mathematical equations, and many, many more.
Even letters and numbers can be used in several ways. They mean
one thing in a novel, another thing in organic chemistry
formulas, and something else again where they're used in the
analysis of musical passages, to indicate the type of chord
being used. Plus, of course, many other uses. Think of the
letters used to indicate the structure of DNA.

So there's an additional difficulty in interpreting alien
symbols. We don't even know what kind of symbol they're supposed
to be.


Greg Sandow








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                            Re: Symbols - Maltby

From: Carol Maltby <CarolMaltby@cs.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 15:46:20 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 21:44:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Symbols - Maltby


 >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
 >Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 09:54:56 EDT
 >Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 12:51:40 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Symbols - Randle

 >>From: Gary Anthony <mithrand@mithrand.karoo.co.uk>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 10:59:52 +0100
 >>Subject: Re: Symbols

 >>>From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 14:49:37 -0500
 >>>Subject: Re: Symbols

 >>>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >>>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>>Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 13:10:13 -0400
 >>>>Subject: Re: Symbols

 >Seems to me that there are dozens of sources of alien writing,
 >some of them good and some of them not so good. Wouldn't it make
 >more sense to eliminate those that are clearly from hoaxes up
 >front so that they are not contaminating the sample, put those
 >that are dubious into another pile, and finally lump those that
 >are believed to be authentic into a third?

 >Of course, then we have the question of which samples go to into
 >which piles. There would be some who would see the contactee
 >symbols as being as valuable as those from abductees and some
 >who would look at the Roswell symbols as being more acceptable
 >than the UMMO symbols.

 >The first thing that must be done is to define the sample and
 >provide the protocols for accepting a sample as "authentic".
 >Then we can begin to argue which symbols go where. And I haven't
 >even addressed the problem of alien language and the possibility
 >that the symbols come from more than one source so our lumping
 >them all together might defeat the study before it even begins.



I'd like to approach this from more of a typographical
perspective. Linguists, cryptanalysts, typographers,
semioticians and esotericists might all find different patterns
of alien symbols that are meaningful to them, but each might use
different methods of sorting to optimally perceive the patterns.
Would those working on the project be willing to take the time
to sort the images according to a wide range of criteria, so as
to better categorize them? There are aspects that might be
ignored by a linguist or cryptanalyst that might show patterns
to someone with a graphics background.

While I suspect most contributors of the information who are not
trained observers might not have included information in such
detail or be able to retrieve it from memory, these are some
breakdowns by graphic category that might give meaningful
patterns for future researchers if enough symbols were
available:

Seemingly arbitrary symbols vs those with possible pictographic
content?

Symbols sorted according to accepted conventions of
categorization, such as "single axis symmetric, soft, open signs
with crossing lines"? (See Carl Liungman, or symbols.com)

Are the symbols uniformly colored? How does their color relate
to the predominant colors in the context in which they are seen?
Would the symbol's color remain the same if seen in both an
alien context and an everyday context, or might there be
differences that could tell us about the alien's visual system?

Do the symbols appear on some sort of background?

Is the symbol incised, two-dimensional or raised in three
dimensions?  The symbol : is "two" when incised on the face of a
die, is a colon when printed on a surface two-dimensionally, is
the letter "b" in Braille when raised.

If multiple symbols are together, are some larger than their
companions?

What medium did the symbols appear in? (i.e, marquetry,
metalwork, applique', woven, printed, holographic, codex etc)

Any human symbols that these resemble? Would these resemblences
be  weighted toward any particular geographic, chronological, or
other category?

Classical Roman letterforms as analyzed by Fra Luca de Pacioli
and other scholars over the centuries reveal a geometrical basis
for their construction. Do these alien symbols have any inherent
geometrical pattern in their construction?

Is there a breakdown of the contexts in which the symbols were
seen (i.e., in a craft, on an entity's body or clothing, in a
building, displayed in the place from which someone was
abducted)?

Do they resemble any of the esoteric magickal alphabets said to
have been developed with the aid of entities, such as Enochian?

Can you group the symbols according to which alien species is
associated with them? (i.e., Greys, Nordics, Reptilians, etc.)

Whether these symbols are related to known human archetypal or
utilitarian symbols may be an entirely different question from
what they may mean, and the two questions may have to be
approached through entirely different methodologies and
perspectives.

Possible resources for studies of signs and symbols:

I have an older edition of Carl Liungman's _Dictionary of
Symbols_, which has now been updated and enlarged as _Thought
Signs_.  This may provide access to not only the archetypal
symbols used by many cultures throughout history, but can also
provide some criteria for categorizing alien symbols into some
sort of taxonomy.

http://w1.415.telia.com/~u41502002/inventions.htm

Thought Signs: The Semiotics of Symbols-Western Non-Pictorial
Ideograms by Carl G. Liungman

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/9051991975/qid=1033562084/sr=1-3

/ref=sr_1_3/103-2358073-5471815?v=glance


"SYMBOLS.com contains more than 2,500 Western signs, arranged
into 54 groups according to their graphic characteristics. In
1,600 articles their histories, uses, and meanings are
thoroughly discussed."

http://www.symbols.com/index.html

I haven't seen Hulse's books, but mentions on the web seem to
find them scholarly and encyclopedic in their coverage. Two
volumes on Eastern and Western esoterica with a focus on the
power of symbols and sacred alphabets.

Hulse's contact information may be found at:

http://www.geocities.com/d_a_hulse/HOME.html

The Eastern Mysteries: An Encyclopedic Guide to the Sacred
Languages & Magickal Systems of the World: The Key of It All,
Book 1 by David Allen Hulse

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1567184286/qid=1033577993/sr=1-1

/ref=sr_1_1/103-2358073-5471815?v=glance

The Western Mysteries: An Encyclopedic Guide to the Sacred
Languages & Magickal Systems of the World: The Key of It All,
Book II by David Allen Hulse

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1567184294/qid=1033577993/sr=1-2/r
ef=sr_1_2/103-2358073-5471815?v=glance

"Vassar professor Don Foster has become known as the father of
literary forensics. Through his work in Linguistic attribution -
  - studying an author's writing -- he has helped identify the
Unabomber, unmask the author of Primary Colors, and identify
William Shakespeare as the author of a previously anonymous
sonnet (as detailed in Elegy For W.S.: A Study in Attribution."

Perhaps Foster might be a useful resource for help in figuring
out the methodology to be used.
http://english.vassar.edu/faculty/foster.html


Carol Maltby







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                            Re: Symbols - Anthony

From: Gary Anthony <garyant@mithrand.karoo.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 23:08:52 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 06:27:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Symbols - Anthony


 >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 09:54:56 EDT
 >Subject: Re: Symbols

 >>From: Gary Anthony <mithrand@mithrand.karoo.co.uk>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 10:59:52 +0100
 >>Subject: Re: Symbols

 >>>From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 14:49:37 -0500
 >>>Subject: Re: Symbols

 >>>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >>>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>>Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 13:10:13 -0400
 >>>>Subject: Re: Symbols

 >>><snip>

 >>In a separate post; the question was asked what samples do we
 >>chose for study? Do we not include Orthon's footprints?
 >>Initially I think it would be important and scientific to
 >>include every sample of alleged alien communication, including
 >>the contactee cases.

 >Then would we not include the messages given to John Reeves at
 >Brooksville, FL (or rather found by him) and the symbols
 >observed by Jesse Marcel, Sr. and those seen by his son? What
 >about those seen by Bessie Brazel... and those seen on UFOs such
 >as that reported by Lonnie Zamora and in the photographs of the
 >UMMO UFO.

 >Seems to me that there are dozens of sources of alien writing,
 >some of them good and some of them not so good. Wouldn't it make
 >more sense to eliminate those that are clearly from hoaxes up
 >front so that they are not contaminating the sample, put those
 >that are dubious into another pile, and finally lump those that
 >are believed to be authentic into a third?

 >Of course, then we have the question of which samples go to into
 >which piles. There would be some who would see the contactee
 >symbols as being as valuable as those from abductees and some
 >who would look at the Roswell symbols as being more acceptable
 >than the UMMO symbols.

 >The first thing that must be done is to define the sample and
 >provide the protocols for accepting a sample as "authentic".
 >Then we can begin to argue which symbols go where. And I haven't
 >even addressed the problem of alien language and the possibility
 >that the symbols come from more than one source so our lumping
 >them all together might defeat the study before it even begins.

 >Just a couple of random thoughts.


Hi List,

Kevin, thanks for your relevant random thoughts on how such a
study may separate more interesting samples. Indeed there are
lots of claims for alleged alien semiotics taking into account
all those you mention and many more. I am sure some will not be
interested in the alleged Ummite language for example -- however
from a linguistic point of view, they are all curious and can
demonstrate certain things. We are prepared to spend time
assessing them, but interesting samples merit more time and
effort than say Brooksville type samples, that goes without
saying. The data sets are not all lumped together, they are
divided by types covering different criteria.

Eliminating hoaxes is obviously very important and as you
rightly point out they require separation and sorting, but hoax
samples still need to be compared with others to demonstrate any
differences or similarities in at least one analysis. Sifting
out more interesting samples derive from linguistic analysis and
this is only one way they are being sorted and indexed. Any
'Ufological' expose of hoax samples is of course helpful and
complimentary, however linguistic analysis need not rely on such
information, despite the fact we have gathered as much
background reference, either from UFO literature or otherwise
(preferably first hand) as we can determine. This is also
ongoing with contributors.

To cut to the chase, what may hypothetically be expected from an
alien language is that it could have hallmarks it was made by an
intelligence equal or greater than our own, these hallmarks can
be defined and expounded to some degree. Anything beyond this
depends greatly on how much of an alleged alien writing system
or language the abductee knows?

Linguistic experts are quite aware of language and writing
systems, some languages more than others, Indo European families
are well known. An invention of language or a writing system can
be spotted, mostly because when people invent language they
generally do this having very little linguistic knowledge of
their own language, despite being sometimes quite articulate at
using it. The problem arises out of the fact that most people
are ignorant and lack knowledge to describe their own language
fully, attempts at invention leave many tell tale signs. It
takes a lot of thought to invent an elaborate language as good
as, if not better than, say English for example. No matter how
imaginative, most inventions fall short in a structure and other
analyses. English is a complex language though and even positing
a simpler language tell tale signs are just as noticeable, if
not more so, depending on the system and language.

There are many pitfalls, far too many for email exchanges in lay
person terminology. The article which Mark Newbrook and I wrote
for MUFON Journal #411 was as near to lay person definitions as
possible and mentions some of the pitfalls and possibilities.

Regarding your last paragraph about protocols, it would be nice
if Ufology could do this, however it cannot by the criteria
already mentioned. Samples are assessed on their individual
merits, as well as comparative ones and this lies solely in the
domain of linguistics. Optimisitcally what I perceive the
general picture may be with regards alleged alien semiotics, is
that the samples go from less convincing (probably covering most
of the contactee material with one or two exceptions) ranging
out to less, but more interesting systems among the individual
abductee samples involving structure. Until all of the tests and
analyses are done this however cannot be stated as certainty. By
simple definition anything at the higher and lesser end could be
more convincing and revealing?


Best Regards

Gary






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                 Disclosure 2003 Campaign Update - October 2

From: Stephen Bassett <Disclosure2003@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 18:21:28 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 06:31:50 -0400
Subject: Disclosure 2003 Campaign Update - October 2


             D I S C L O S U R E 2 0 0 3
MD 8th District Congressional Campaign of Stephen Bassett

          Campaign Update - October 2, 2002

San Francisco Presentation - October 11

For those in the Bay Area (or with friends there) all the
details, including maps, for the October 11 San Francisco
presentation are in the "Events" section at:

www.favors.org

Some details are shown below:

First US congressional candidate to directly engage the fact of
an extraterrestrial presence and the government imposed embargo
on the truth of that fact. Date: Oct 11th - Fri at 6:00 PM
Event: Potluck Dinner, Lecture & Conversation in SF Location:
Penthouse, 3220 Sacramento Street - SF Duration: 3 hours - until
9 PM Cost: $40 (or $20 and a dish to share


League of Women Voters Televised Debate

An invitation has been received from the League of Women Voters
to participate in a three-way TV debate with the other two
candidates, Connie Morella and Chris Van Hollen. It will be
taped within the next two weeks and aired numerous times before
the election.


People's Community Baptist Church Candidate Forum

I will also be answering questions with the other candidates
Monday, October 7. Open to the public. The particulars are:

Event: People's Community Baptist Church Candidate Forum
Date: October 7  6 - 9:00 pm
Location: 31 Norwood Road, Silver Spring, Maryland, 20905
Sponsors: Montgomery County Chapters of the NAACP,
Pan-Hellenic Council, African-American Democratic Club
and League of Women Voters


Consequently, the issue of the extraterrestrial presence and
government truth embargo will be addressed before the public one
way or the other by these candidates.

  _________________________________________________

        Transparent government, private citizenry
  _________________________________________________

              Campaign Headquarters
               Bethesda/Gaithersburg
             4938 Hampden Lane, #161
               Bethesda, MD 20814
        Phone: 301-990-4290   Fax: 301-990-1099
           Email: Disclosure2003@aol.com
          Website: www.disclosure2003.net







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                            Flight-Paths Of UFOs

From: Kelly Peterborough <kellymcg@attcanada.ca>
Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 18:40:07 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 06:40:26 -0400
Subject: Flight-Paths Of UFOs


I'm way behind on my e-mails (about 400) due to computer
troubles so apologies if I haven't responded to any e-mails. I
have a question though that I was hoping this august group could
answer.

I just read on another List that it has been 'verified' (no sources
cited) that the 'majority' (no percentage given) of UFOs flight-paths
take a north to south or south to north direction.

My dear Larry H., is this something you have kept track of in
your database? Anybody else have any comments? And if the above
is true, any speculation as to why?


Thanks!

Kelly








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                        Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Gutierez

From: Gregory Gutierez <greguti@free.fr>
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 02:04:40 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 07:03:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Gutierez


 >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 09:54:56 EDT
 >Subject: Re: Symbols

 >Of course, then we have the question of which samples go to
 >into which piles. There would be some who would see the
 >contactee symbols as being as valuable as those from abductees
 >and some who would look at the Roswell symbols as being more
 >acceptable than the UMMO symbols.


Hi Kevin, everyone,

I don't know if there's been an announcement on this List about
a book published in French, about the UMMO language. The author
doesn't want to be known so he chose the nom de plume "Jean
Pollion". As in Champollion who discovered the meanings of the
Egyptian hieroglyphs.

The book was published by Aldane editions in June or July 2002
and is 500 pages. A CD-Rom was also available with a huge
dictionnary in it (around 1200 pages).

It is not just a the good old UMMO story repeated once again,
"Jean Pollion" tried to understand the Ummit words included in
the 1500 pages of UMMO letters that have been made public. He
tried to understand how these strange words like "ummoaelewe",
"oyagaa", "DOROOUIAIE", etc. were structured

In the UMMO letters, there are enough of these UMMO words
indicated from time to time inside the text, to allow Pollion to
make a very impressive dictionnary, very detailled for each
term. It's not just a word-to-word handy dictionary, it is more
like an encyclopedia of the "Ummit way of thinking and living",
based on the Ummit words.

This is a very interesting work, because Pollion's discovery
looks very efficiant and logical in its frame. I'm sure it would
be accepted without criticism if it were presented as the
analysis of a human langage. It allows deciphering of the
meaning of an Ummo word and then checking that it fits,
perfectly, the context in which it was cited.

Pollion questions the hoax theory: who would do such long and
detailed letters during all these years, putting some alien
words in it that sound silly or stupid when you read it, but
that actually appear to be built on the same hidden rules and
bedrock? Indeed, the Ummo words look like extracts from a real
language.

The Ummo words went sometimes with Ummit pictograms (sketches of
"their" writings). You can see some pics of the original
drawings and pictograms used in the Ummit letters here:

http://www.ovni.ch/ummo/

Just to finish: following the release of the book by Jean
Pollion, a new French mailing list appeared in August 2002 and
is still quite active at:

http://ummo.free.fr

An English area is available here:

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/ummo.textes-essentiels/anglais/a000.htm


Regards,

Gregory Gutierez
The Evil Psycho-sociological Proponant
Paris, France







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                           Re: Symbols - Goldstein

From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 03:02:17 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 07:07:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Symbols - Goldstein


 >From: Gary Anthony <mithrand@mithrand.karoo.co.uk>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 10:59:52 +0100
 >Subject: Re: Symbols

 >>From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 14:49:37 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Symbols

 >>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 13:10:13 -0400
 >>>Subject: Re: Symbols

 >><snip>

 >>>Then (rightfully) linguists and cryptographers should have them!
 >>>I wouldn't know where to begin Greg.

 >>>Where does one find 'linguists and cryptographers'?

 >>If we assume, for the sake of argument, that such symbols are
 >>'truly' alien, and meant to communicate solely to other aliens
 >>from the same culture, then linguists and cryptographers will be
 >>virtually useless.

 >>Egyptian hieroglyphs were untranslatable until the Rosetta Stone
 >>was found--and this symbology arose from a culture that shared
 >>our common humanity and commemorated human experinces in their
 >>writings. "Alien" symbols and glyphs, by their very nature will
 >>probably remain enigmatic.

 >Brian may I refer you back to my post on this list dated
 >October 1st., at:

 >http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/oct/m01-001.shtml

 >To further elucidate, I would add that linguists and
 >cryptanalysts disagree with your viewpoint.  To be succinct,
 >linguistics has come a long way since the discovery and
 >deciphering of the Hieroglyphic writing system.

 >This aforementioned post should answer posts which speculate
 >that studying alien languages is a useless endeavour; it would
 >appear that since it has thus far generated no response, the
 >community on this list may be ignoring the relevance of it.?

 >In a separate post; the question was asked what samples do we
 >chose for study? Do we not include Orthon's footprints?
 >Initially I think it would be important and scientific to
 >include every sample of alleged alien communication, including
 >the contactee cases. Because if the study is to be truly
 >scientific, it would need to analyse and assess these too, on
 >merit of how they compare to later abductee samples and with
 >what may or may not be generated by the human psyche/mind. More
 >interesting samples may possess certain virtues not recognisable
 >to the untrained non-linguistic eye and by such virtues that is
 >how possible 'structure' may be analysed.


Gary,

I fully support what you are saying above. That is why, in my
recent posts, I strongly emphasized that it needed to be a
multi-disciplined and thorough study.


Josh










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                                  Kanazawa

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 18:14:04 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 07:10:33 -0400
Subject: Kanazawa


Dr. Bruce, and List.....

One of my all-time favorite videos is the one from Kanazawa,
Japan, around 1989 or so.

I was at Marge Christenson's house when Richard Haines viewed it
for the first time, and he actually raised an eyebrow and said
"Wow.", which for Dick Haines is the equivalent of jumping up and
down and screaming.

Bruce, I know you did an article for IUR comparing the Kanazawa
video to one shot in Hawaii - I think - but that's the last I
heard of it. Has anything developed on this fascinating footage
since then?


==JJS==








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                                  Kanazawa

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 18:14:04 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 07:10:33 -0400
Subject: Kanazawa


Dr. Bruce, and List.....

One of my all-time favorite videos is the one from Kanazawa,
Japan, around 1989 or so.

I was at Marge Christenson's house when Richard Haines viewed it
for the first time, and he actually raised an eyebrow and said
"Wow.", which for Dick Haines is the equivalent of jumping up and
down and screaming.

Bruce, I know you did an article for IUR comparing the Kanazawa
video to one shot in Hawaii - I think - but that's the last I
heard of it. Has anything developed on this fascinating footage
since then?


==JJS==








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                            Re: Symbols - Speiser

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 19:35:40 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 07:26:25 -0400
Subject: Re: Symbols - Speiser


 >From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: Symbols
 >Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 15:32:32 -0400

 >>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 09:54:56 EDT
 >>Subject: Re: Symbols

<snip>

 >We don't know what we're dealing with here, after all. One
 >possibility is that they're all made up - consciously or
 >unconsciously - by the people who report them. Or they might all
 >be truly alien. Or some might be alien and some made up. Since
 >we don't know, I'm in favor, the more I think of it, of not
 >excluding anything at all. We might learn as much from the
 >hoaxes as we do from symbols we might have some reason to
 >believe might be truly alien.

Greg, you took the words right out of my mouth. This would
basically amount to a single-blind study, and if nothing else,
would be an interesting way to test the archetypal images
theory. If there _is_ anything to these exoglyphs, it would be
interesting to see if these high-powered linguists mentioned
here are able to make any distinctions based solely on content
without knowing the source.

Now I _am_ sorry I lined that bird cage with Corder's symbols.


==JJS==








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               Re: Mexico City Aug. 6, 1997 Stabilized Video -

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 23:39:58 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 08:03:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Mexico City Aug. 6, 1997 Stabilized Video -


 >From: Tom King <tomking2030@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 23:38:15 +0000
 >Subject: Re: Mexico City Aug. 6, 1997 Stabilized Video

 >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 09:28:32 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: Mexico City Aug. 6, 1997 Stabilized Video

Referring to the "differential smear"

 >This is visually obvious in a couple of frames presented on my
 >web site"

 >http://brumac.8k.com/

 >Thanks so much for taking time to answer everything I asked!
 >Instead of us talking about Sanio's work why don't he join this
 >discussion himself. He has a bunch of computer equipment and
 >tons of UFO tapes people send MUFON. No E-Mail address, or is he
 >a lurker on this List?

You can try to get him at:

jsainio@qgraph.com.

A discussion of the Mexico Video originally posted - in part -
on UpDates is archived with other information at:

www.temporaldoorway/ufo/analysis/mexicanvideo

(Mark Cashman's web site)

As you scroll down this page, nearly 1/2way down is my
preliminary report on this video. Following that are other
reports. It took until the spring of 98 to find the
'fingerprints of a hoax'. This first appears in the archive
messages about 3/4 of the way down. (message 7/4/98)

 >I went to your great website and looked at the pic of the Mexico
 >differential smear as you guys call it. I really can't see what
 >you guys are seeing. The images are cropped so you can't see the
 >buildings below the disc. It would be more helpful to see the
 >buildings.

I only showed the top of the buildings at the right side because
they were very convenient for comparison: one can look at the
bottom edge, in particular, of the UFO in each of these frames
and then look to the right and see the top edge of the building
for comparison. The building image smear occurs on the lower
buildings - below the 'UFO' as well.

 >I will be looking closely for these alleged differential smear
 >images and know the video well so I find and post them full
 >screen on my website soon.

 >>>>>The differential smear (and also the image jump referred to by
 >>>>>King) introduced an artifact that could not be explained unless
 >>>>>one assumed that the UFO tracked the random hand vibration of
 >>>>>the camera and moved in a rapid, jerky motion just enough to
 >>>>>have its image remain unsmeared throughout the video.

 >>>>>This seemed highly unlikely for the apparently smoothly moving
 >>>>>(and rotating) object and so Sainio and I have considered this
 >>>>>differential smear to be the 'fingerprints of a hoax'.

 >>>>>Of course, we cannot explain the witness reports. We just wonder
 >>>>>if there is really any connection.

 >>>In that last sentence you imply the Mexican eyewitnesses are
 >>>liars. So, the little girl who told her dad about this sighting
 >>>is lying? Her dad and the resturant operator too?

 >>It is important to realize that the conclusion of "fingerprints
 >>of a hoax" is based on the analysis of the video. Anyone who
 >>wants to connect the video with the visual sighting must figure
 >>out how to explain the "fingerprints."

<snip>

 >Thats if they are "fingerprints of a hoax". None of this has not
 >been proven as fact yet. Just an interesting theory Jeff and you
 >came up with to explain 2 images. Another "independent" party
 >will be need to verify your theory to test it.

It is more than 2 images. In fact the differential smear was
detected by Jeff's computer program by comparing the image smear
in all the frames (600 frames or 1200 fields). If was this
overall analysis which showed that , on the average, motion
smear of the building images was greater than any smear of the
UFO image. _After_ Jeff discovered this and told me about it I
began to look carefully at the frames where there was a lot of
motion from frame to frame. It was then that I found the two
frames were the differential smear was large enough to be easily
seen by eye. I pointed this out to the producer of Whitley
Streiber's "Confirmation" TV show... but they didn't use it.

 >>Note, by the way, for
 >>those who have forgotten, the video was shown on TV over a month
 >>after the event and that led to some people contacting Jaime
 >>Maussan. Also, so far as I know. the videographer is not known.

 >Yes that is true. The video was broadcast a month later. I
 >believe there was a lady who claimed the disc harmed her health
 >during the sighting. She was on one of those tv shows. Her
 >medical records dating before the tape aired would help validate
 >the sighting.

 >The News often broadcasts crime videos such as bank robberies on
 >TV hoping the public can help solve the case. Later on most
 >criminals are busted because the public helps by providing
 >clues. Did the News broadcast taint the eyewitnesses? No, it
 >helped the case. Did the news question the intergrity of the
 >witnesses? No.

 >What you're citing is a double standard and thats not good
 >enough to dismiss this case. If those methods are good enough to
 >lock people up in prison those same techniques should be good
 >enough to know if a disc was in the sky at a certain day and
 >time.

 >>>The alleged "differential smear" could be caused by several
 >>>different factors:

 >>>1. What generation video was Sanio using? 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th?

 >>SO far as I know it was a direct copy from Maussan's master copy
 >>(made from the original)

 >Perhaps, but from what I'm believe you're mistaken.
 >I was told Sanio never asked for a good copy, or Jaime's master,
 >or Lee's (copy). Were exactly did Jeff Sanio obtain his copy?

I was provided a good copy and this is probably what Sainio
used, although I don't recall specifically. At any rate, any
decent copy would have been good enough for this differential
smear test.

 >Here is a basic flow chart for people following this debate.

 >[orginal video]-->[Jamie]---->[Lee Elders]-->[Jeff Sanio???]
 >[Master]--------->[1st gen]-->[2nd gen]----->[3rd gen]
 >So its easy to see that Jeff very well could have worked off
 >4th-6th generation. If thats the case then you'll definately
 >get noise in the video that could interfere with what you guys
 >performed.

At worst he used a copy made from my copy made from Jamie's (I
was told), which would make it 4th. If he used my copy it was
3rd.

The addition of electronic copying noise - 'grain noise' or
'snow' - would, on the average, add equally to all edges. Thus
the noise might add to the building edges and to the UFO edges.
However, the _difference_ in smear would still be apparent -
noise 'subtracted out'.

 >>>2. Capture methods can cause artifacts depending on how the
 >>>video was digitized.

 >>Yes, but in the most obvious examples of the differential smear
 >>one needs only to look frame by frame at the video copy....
 >>no digitisation needed.

 >>>3. Was the video de-interlaced or used interlaced.

 >>Don't know. Doesn't matter in this case.

 >Oh, I'm afraid it does matter in this case. I don't know what
 >your experience is with stabilizing videos but its foolish to
 >use regular interlaced video to stabilize. Especially using
 >video capture technology back in 1997-99 era.

 >Interlaced video can provide some blurry pixels when looking at
 >still frames. This randomly happens thru out the video and is
 >only noticable to the naked eye when viewing still frames. In
 >order to stabilize the video you'll need to de-interlace the
 >video and pick either A frame or B frame. By doing so you end up
 >with a cleaner copy to stabilize otherwise you'll probably get
 >alot of mistakes and it won't stabilize properly.

 >If Jeff stabilized the video without de-interlacing then ya that
 >probably explains the problem he had with blur and smear.

 >How did the alleged differential smear play into de-interlaced
 >video? I bet this part wasn't looked into.

Sainio analyzed each at each field - 2 fields per frame.
However, the differential smear test he did used the video
_before_ stabilizing, that is, he did not need the stabilized
video to do his test.

 >Since Jeff was the hatchet man of this video it would be helpful
 >if he could E-mail, fax, phone, write you so he can post on this
 >List to clear up what exactly he did to this video.

<snip>

 >>>I don't feel the hoax explanation offered on this case is
 >>>satisfactory, since it calls all the eyewitnesses liars. None of
 >>>us even went to Mexico City to investigate first hand, so what
 >>>do we know anyway?>

 >I meant Bruce, Jeff, and myself never went to Mexico City.

 >>The Elders were there. I have no doubt that they did a
 >>reasonable investigation; So did Hesemann.

 >..................................

 >>NOTE:
 >>Analysis of two frames in which the differential smear is large is
 >>presented at:

 >>http://brumac.8k.com

 >>scroll down a little to the title Mexity City Video. There you
 >>can seen the motion smeared frames (building images smeared, UFO
 >>image _not_ smeared) as compared to unsmeared frames (building
 >>images and UFO images not smeared). Seeing is believing?

 >Back to the main topic. Download the video from:

 >http://www.ufovideo.com/analysis.php

 >Watch the disc when its next to the building. It jumps up and
 >down quickly, play this part back frame by frame to bring out
 >the detail. This is odd behavior for any UFO video faked or not.
 >Notice the disc doesn't jump left or right. If this video was
 >faked so well that only screw ups were "differential smear" in 2
 >frames, why does the disc jump up and down so noticebly?

Differential smear was detected in most of the frames - I don't
recall the exact number.








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                 Re: 'X' Marks The Mysterious Planet - Gates

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 00:52:36 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 08:05:38 -0400
Subject: Re: 'X' Marks The Mysterious Planet - Gates


 >Source: Columbus Ledger-Enquirer - Georgia

 >http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/mld/ledgerenquirer/news/local/4179150.htm


 >Posted on Mon, Sep. 30, 2002

 >'X' Marks The Mysterious Planet
 >By Carole Rutland
 >Special to the Ledger-Enquirer

 >Now you see it, now you don't!

 >It's the case of the missing planet, and it all started with a
 >nagging suspicion that everything was not quite right with the
 >orbital motions of some of the outer planets. Dubbed Planet X by
 >some scientists, its existence has been speculated because of
 >something called "perturbations."

Not to mention the fact that Planet X has spawned quite a number
of theories... almost as many as JFK.

Many folks are caught up with Hazelwood's "planet X will be here
in the Spring of 2003....." and how all earth/weather changes
are brought on by planet x's inbound approach, blah blah blah.

When spring 2003 comes and goes, with no planet X, the folks
will either rationalize it away with some excuse or they won't
want to talk about it.

Kind of like the gulliable did with the "mass landings to take
place on April 24th 1997" and 'ET going to land on a Arizona
mountaintop in December of 2000 and many others.

Note that these various theories were loudly, and profoundly
defended by folks who bought into them lock, stock and
barrel... that is until they proved to be bogus, then the
defenders went silent.


Cheers,

Robert








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   Oct > Oct 3

                  EW: SETI Announces Hard/Software Upgrade

From: Kurt Jonach - The Electric Warrior <eWarrior@electricwarrior.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 00:02:35 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 08:08:35 -0400
Subject: EW: SETI Announces Hard/Software Upgrade


--------------------------------------------------

The Electric Warrior : October 3, 2002
http://www.electricwarrior.com/

--------------------------------------------------
SETI ANNOUNCES HARDWARE & SOFTWARE UPGRADE
extraterrestrial intelligence

image: New SETI Dish
http://www.electricwarrior.com/img/SETI_ParkesDish.jpg

(The Electric Warrior) - SETI's upcoming hardware and software
upgrade should improve the odds for acquiring what many people
assume we already have: proof of extraterrestrial intelligence.

SETI's new radio telescope at Parkes Observatory, Australia will
be operational early next year. The new SETI dish has two
advantages over the exiting Aricebo dish in Puerto Rico.

Not only does Australia's dish cover more of the sky, it is also
located in the Southern Hemisphere, where most of the Milky Way
galaxy can be observed. SETI@home's project director David
Anderson told Space.com the chances of finding ET outside the
Milky Way is "pretty small."

The world's most popular ET screensaver was the first
application to harness the Internet's aggregate of unused CPU
cycles. SETI@home gangs together over 600,000 volunteer
computers in a distributed processing scheme called "grid
computing."

The SETI@home model was so successful, and its sheer computing
power so coveted by other scientists, that Anderson got a grant
from the National Science Foundation to develop a ready to use
distributed computing package called BOINC (Berkeley Open
Infrastructure for Network Computing).

BOINC will be an important part of the new version of the
popular SETI@home screensaver, which will be distributed at the
same time the Parkes dish goes online. Not only will BOINC allow
you to pick and choose what scientific problems you want to
tackle, it will also seamlessly upgrade your software
installation without interrupting the screensaver.

No wonder the folks at Berkeley say they rule the sky.

--------------------------------------------------
RELATED RESOURCES

Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence at Home
http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/

02-Oct-02
Upgrades to Boost SETI@home Alien Search
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/seti_021001.html

(Space.com) - The world's most popular ET-hunting program for
home users is about to get upgrades of both its software and the
telescope that feeds data into it... Starting early next year,
the Arecibo recorder will be shut off and a new but similar
recorder will be turned on at the Parkes Observatory in
Australia, which can observe 70 degrees of the sky -- and a more
advantageous part of the sky, too.


16-Sep-02
SETI@home Brings Internet Distributed Computing to Other Fields
http://www.planetary.org/html/UPDATES/seti/SETI%40home/Update_091602.html

(The Planetary Society) - Computer time - is there ever enough
of it? The problem is as old as digital computing itself... For
some tasks, it seemed, no computing capacity was enough. These
tasks involved so much data, or calculations so complex, that
running them on a computer, even a supercomputer, was not
practical... Enter Internet Distributed Computing, a radical and
innovative answer to this nagging problem.


10-Sep-02
Resolution in Support of Space Preservation Act
http://www.peaceinspace.com/61744.html

(Institute for Cooperation in Space) - The council of the City
of Berkeley hereby declares that the space 60 kilometers and
above the City of Berkeley is a space-based weapons free zone.

--------------------------------------------------
THE ELECTRIC WARRIOR
October 3, 2002
Silicon Valley, CA
http://www.electricwarrior.com

Graphics & Gonzo

--------------------------------------------------
The Electric Warrior is not responsible for the
content of Web links. Content reproduced here is
for informational purposes only. All copyrights
Acknowledged.

eWarrior@electricwarrior.com










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                            Re: Symbols - Anthony

From: Gary Anthony <garyant@mithrand.karoo.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 12:31:48 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 08:12:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Symbols - Anthony


 >From: Carol Maltby <CarolMaltby@cs.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 15:46:20 EDT
 >Subject: Re: Symbols


<snip>

 >I'd like to approach this from more of a typographical
 >perspective. Linguists, cryptanalysts, typographers,
 >semioticians and esotericists might all find different patterns
 >of alien symbols that are meaningful to them, but each might use
 >different methods of sorting to optimally perceive the patterns.
 >Would those working on the project be willing to take the time
 >to sort the images according to a wide range of criteria, so as
 >to better categorize them? There are aspects that might be
 >ignored by a linguist or cryptanalyst that might show patterns
 >to someone with a graphics background.

 >While I suspect most contributors of the information who are not
 >trained observers might not have included information in such
 >detail or be able to retrieve it from memory, these are some
 >breakdowns by graphic category that might give meaningful
 >patterns for future researchers if enough symbols were
 >available:

 >Seemingly arbitrary symbols vs those with possible pictographic
 >content?

<snip>

Hi List,

Carol thanks for your thoughtful mail. From just after the
conception of the semiotics project we have encouraged the
participation of a graphic designer who is expert in symbols as
well as a forensic artist (who also worked as an archaeological
sketch artist). Their contributions and suggestions have been as
invaluable as their large libraries of motifs and they have
raised some of your questions. One of the contributing linguists
is also expert in philology and orthography and has worked in
forensics analysing handwriting. We are addressing the points of
your mail and a few which have not yet been mentioned.

With regard to esoteric writings, many linguists are aware of
them and we have the resources to check with some of the world's
specialised experts in these and other systems. There are also
many good references on writing systems which cover the
aforesaid in some depth, off bat one recent scholarly example I
could mention is 'The Alphabetic Labyrinth' by Johanna Drucker
(Thomas and Hudson 1999). This has many examples that are not
generally known, another is 'Alchemy and Mysticism. The Hermetic
Museum' By Alexander Roob (Taschen 2000).

I have turgid files on alphabetic and other systems which
include a prominent file of esoteric and magical alphabets from
around the globe. Somewhere, I think on this list, there may be
a post of mine archived which mentions some of your points and
also notes different comparisons we are hoping to have done.

Some of the esoteric systems or samples which claim origin
through entities, alla John Dee's Enochian (which you mention)
and many more ancient examples with unknown sources are involved
with a comparative analysis.

To be brief we are hoping to describe the samples employing wide
criteria studies, focussing on each separate analysis and
experiment with the relevant expertise.

A lot of what you ask about where the alien scripts are written,
what on and with what, and their descriptions do fall within the
linguistic discipline. As the MUFON article mentions, we are
also collecting alleged alien insignia and relative information
-- without stating the obvious too much, the expertise required
to look at this as akin to 'alien writing' can fall within a
number of fields. If anyone thinks of any tests which can be
done or expertise that can be involved, we are open to
suggestions, input and participation.


Best Regards,

Gary Anthony








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   Oct > Oct 3

                            Re: Kanazawa - Erkmen

From: Erol Erkmen <eerkmen@tuvpo.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 14:58:32 +0300
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 08:16:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Kanazawa - Erkmen


 >One of my all-time favorite videos is the one from Kanazawa,
 >Japan, around 1989 or so.

<snip>

Jim,

Where can I find the Kanazawa video?


Erol Erkmen








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                       Re: Kanazawa - Ballester Olmos

From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos@yahoo.es>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 14:05:26 +0200 (CEST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 08:18:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Kanazawa - Ballester Olmos


 >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 18:14:04 -0700
 >Subject: Kanazawa

<snip>

 >Bruce, I know you did an article for IUR comparing the Kanazawa
 >video to one shot in Hawaii - I think - but that's the last I
 >heard of it. Has anything developed on this fascinating footage
 >since then?


Which IUR issue, please?


V-J








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                 Re: Falsified and Fabricated Data - Randle

From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 09:47:43 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 14:48:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Falsified and Fabricated Data - Randle


 >From: Frank Warren <frank-warren@pacbell.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 08:52:41 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Falsified and Fabricated Data

 >>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 13:03:20 -0700
 >>Subject: Re: Falsified and Fabricated Data

 >>>From: Gregory Gutierez <greguti@free.fr>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto (<ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 20:54:15 +0200
 >>>Subject: Re: Falsified and Fabricated Data

 >>>>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>>Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 07:58:54 -0700
 >>>>Subject: Re: Falsified and Fabricated Data

 >>>>- What was the exact surface of the remains found?

 >>>>My understanding was that it had a rough grey matte surface,
 >>>with a decent tooth, which would admit some use of charcoals,
 >>>but which argues against oils.

 >>>Please excuse my English, sometimes I lack the right words.

 >>>With my question "What was the exact surface of the remains?" I
 >>>wanted to ask: what were the length and width of the territory
 >>>covered by the debris? The size of it is an important point in
 >>>order to find what exactly crashed that day near Roswell.

 >>>Thanks a lot for your kind answer,

 >>Ahh! The surface area! I understand it was quite large, spread
 >>all over the place. It could have been something like an acre,
 >>but Stanton Friedman probably has the best answer for that.

 >>Sorry for the misunderstanding.


 >Hello Gregg & Larry & All,

 >Since Stan is on the road, I'll offer the information; "Weighing
 >heavily against the scattered wreckage being any sort of balloon
 >was its condition; pieces were spread out of and area more then
 >250,000 square feet ('200 yards in diameter')

 >-Page 82, "Crash At Corona."


Good Morning, Frank, List, All -

There really is no one answer for this question (just as there
seems to be no one answer for many of the Roswell related
questions).

Jesse Marcel, Sr. said there area was about three-quarters of a
mile by two or three hundred yards...

Bill Brazel described a large area with a gouge about five
hundred feet long and about ten feet at its widest (which, if
accurate, rules out a balloon, period)...

General Exon suggested a large area that was easily visible from
the air...

Bessie Brazel suggested a small area, meaning that she, her
brother and her father cleaned it all up and put it all into
four burlap bags that they stored under the front porch...

The Roswell Daily Record reported that the area was only 200
yards in diameter...

Bud Payne seemed to confirm the size as related by Bill Brazel,
but mentioned no gouge (much the pity)...

Walt Whitmore, Jr. suggested he had seen the area after the Army
clean up and said he found a stretch of about 175 to 200 yards
that had been up-rooted in a fan-like pattern (I should probably
point out that Whitmore's story changed radically over the years
until he insisted that he saw the remains of a weather balloon
and even gathered some samples, which he was never able to
produce)...

Sheridan Cavitt (after telling me repeatedly that he hadn't been
there, hadn't gone out to the site, had never participated in
the retrievel of a balloon) said the area was small...

So, there really is no one answer and the problem might be when
a specific person was there, what he or she remembered, and what
he or she had actually seen.

KRandle








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                             Re: Symbols - Jones

From: Steve Jones <stvjns@gargoylemechanique.com>
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 10:11:35 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 14:51:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Symbols - Jones


 >From: Gary Anthony <mithrand@mithrand.karoo.co.uk>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 10:59:52 +0100
 >Subject: Re: Symbols

 >>From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 14:49:37 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Symbols

 >>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 13:10:13 -0400
 >>>Subject: Re: Symbols

 >><snip>

 >>>Then (rightfully) linguists and cryptographers should have them!
 >>>I wouldn't know where to begin Greg.

 >>>Where does one find 'linguists and cryptographers'?

 >>If we assume, for the sake of argument, that such symbols are
 >>'truly' alien, and meant to communicate solely to other aliens
 >>from the same culture, then linguists and cryptographers will be
 >>virtually useless.

 >>Egyptian hieroglyphs were untranslatable until the Rosetta Stone
 >>was found--and this symbology arose from a culture that shared
 >>our common humanity and commemorated human experinces in their
 >>writings. "Alien" symbols and glyphs, by their very nature will
 >>probably remain enigmatic.

 >Brian may I refer you back to my post on this list dated
 >October 1st., at:

 >http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/oct/m01-001.shtml

 >To further elucidate, I would add that linguists and
 >cryptanalysts disagree with your viewpoint.  To be succinct,
 >linguistics has come a long way since the discovery and
 >deciphering of the Hieroglyphic writing system.

 >This aforementioned post should answer posts which speculate
 >that studying alien languages is a useless endeavour; it would
 >appear that since it has thus far generated no response, the
 >community on this list may be ignoring the relevance of it.?

 >In a separate post; the question was asked what samples do we
 >chose for study? Do we not include Orthon's footprints?
 >Initially I think it would be important and scientific to
 >include every sample of alleged alien communication, including
 >the contactee cases. Because if the study is to be truly
 >scientific, it would need to analyse and assess these too, on
 >merit of how they compare to later abductee samples and with
 >what may or may not be generated by the human psyche/mind. More
 >interesting samples may possess certain virtues not recognisable
 >to the untrained non-linguistic eye and by such virtues that is
 >how possible 'structure' may be analysed.


Maybe I am off the mark here but it occurs to me that
Linguistics deals with the tongue in the mouth, whereas 'alien'
writing - if we are to accept to material from
contactee/trainees - deals with relationships in 3D space, even
4D 'space' using a time layer as part of the thought
transmission process (i.e. multiple strokes stacked in the same
location).

Humans convert thoughts into 'lingual' symbols, but ET may
convert thought more directly into higher geometrical
relationships.  Would this still be a Liguistics issue?

Now I am reminded of Crop Circles and their multidimensional
geometrical diagrams.


  --- stv







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                            Re: Symbols - Hebert

From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 09:42:45 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 14:53:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Symbols - Hebert


 >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 19:35:40 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Symbols

 >>From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Subject: Re: Symbols
 >>Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 15:32:32 -0400

<snip>

 >>We don't know what we're dealing with here, after all. One
 >>possibility is that they're all made up - consciously or
 >>unconsciously - by the people who report them. Or they might all
 >>be truly alien. Or some might be alien and some made up. Since
 >>we don't know, I'm in favor, the more I think of it, of not
 >>excluding anything at all. We might learn as much from the
 >>hoaxes as we do from symbols we might have some reason to
 >>believe might be truly alien.

 >Greg, you took the words right out of my mouth. This would
 >basically amount to a single-blind study, and if nothing else,
 >would be an interesting way to test the archetypal images
 >theory. If there _is_ anything to these exoglyphs, it would be
 >interesting to see if these high-powered linguists mentioned
 >here are able to make any distinctions based solely on content
 >without knowing the source.

<snip>

Let me get this straight...

Someone is trying to study symbols self-claimed abductees have
produced from unconfirmed encounters with aliens and/or other
beings of unknown origins without _first_ attempting to
distinguish seemingly genuine abduction claims from claims that
may have been made up?

And further, these symbols are now being called "exoglyphs" even
though no one knows which ones may be from unearthly sources and
which ones originate from the minds of deluded humans nor do
they seem to care?

That's like going out on the street and asking anyone if they
have ever known a terrorist and using their testimony to conduct
a study of terrorism. Or, like using graffiti found in a cave
to study a civilization that lived nearby without first
determining if the symbols are genuine or merely recent folk-
art. Until you sort the genuine abductees from those who
fabricate, you cannot even begin to study information produced
from a study group.

To date, there is no system yet qualified to distinguish the
genuine from the bogus abductees. Therefore, until such a
system is designed, all data obtained from self-claimed
abductees is to be considered highly questionable and possibly
contaminated by fabrications and should not be used to represent
abduction phenomena and/or abductees in general.

Before we can focus on information related by abductees we must
first honor the real ones and a devotion to the truth by sorting
the signal from the noise. Anything less is an injustice to
those who genuinely suffer abductions and an affront to
abduction research and abduction researchers (of which I am
one).


A. Hebert








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                             Re: Symbols - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 12:50:07 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 14:55:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Symbols - Velez


 >From: Frank Warren <frank-warren@pacbell.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 10:00:16 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Symbols

 >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 14:37:20 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: Symbols

 ><snip>

 >>You bet I am familiar with 'mindscan.' Intimately. I wish I knew
 >>an effective way to eliminate those memories and images from my
 >>mind.

 >>Any suggestions? :)

Hi Frank, All,

You wrote:

 >Wow! I must say that I always read your posts with great interest
 >and fervor. This particular post stirred a few emotions to put it
 >mildly. Considering the pain and anguish you have obviously suffered
 >John, one can only hope that the work you have done and continue
 >to do offers some small form of retribution.

It does. Very much so. The sword also cuts both ways. The
information gets out to the people, and 'talking about it' is a
form of healing, anxiety-relieving catharsis for me.

Win/win situation.  :)

Don't be concerned about me. I have found a fool-proof way of
dealing with abduction that has worked wonders for me. If I may
prattle a bit...

I don't believe in 'shrinks'. I lean more towards the tribal
approach. In many tribal cultures, everybody in the community is
responsible for the grooming, feeding, education and well being
of every single child. They hang together and support each
other. It strengthens the bond between all members of the
community. In times of trouble they turn to each other.

There is something to be said for the 'soundness' of using the
approach of pulling someone in -closer- (socially, collectively)
in a time of personal need. It makes much more sense to do that
than it does to ostracize and isolate people in crisis as we do
in modern Western society.

I firmly believe that the very best medicine for any ills or
woes is to get closer to, to _immerse_ myself in the 'tribe'; my
family, my friends, my associates, moving outward in ever
increasing circles until it encompasses all mankind.

Getting closer to people rather than pulling away.

As a result of choosing to get closer to people rather than
isolating myself, I get a much broader range of soul and mind
feeding feedback and human support than I would from any single
individual. (A shrink.) With the added benefit being, that I am
never 'alone' with any of it.

Those are the two big soul killers for any abductee; not having
anyone to talk to about it, and the terrible feeling of
isolation that results because of it. To each his/her own. We
each have find our own way in life, abductee or not. I have
simply found a way of dealing with it that works for me.

I'm fine. I'm using the whole "tribe" to heal myself.  And it
works.  :)

 >If you can find solace in
 >these I words I offer, then please take them as a token of "my
 >personal thanks and gratitude" for your efforts in this grand
 >undertaking of the enlightenment of your fellow man.

I don't presume to 'enlighten' anybody Frank. As you can see
from my comments above I'm probably getting more out of it than
anybody else. If someone happens to 'get it' while I'm bearing
my soul, so much the better. More than to 'enlighten' a big part
of the reason that I bare my soul is to help dispel ridicule. To
help take down the framework of unfamiliarity and indifference
that 'ridicule' thrives in.

People _laugh_ at abductees. It's like laughing at the plight of
an alcoholic or anyone else who can't help the situation they
find themselves in. They're just human beings.

By exposing myself, my own life, my experiences, and how they
have affected me, I expose my humanity. The word "abductee"
becomes personified, a 'person' rather than a 'thing.' I
(intentionally) put a 'face' on it and a 'real' living,
breathing human being behind it.

It all goes to make it much harder to laugh.

If I accomplish nothing more than that, then all the BS I've
been through as a result of 'going public' has been well worth
it. "Enlighten" the masses? Well, it's nice if it happens, but
that's not the whole enchilada. This 'thing' that is happening,
is happening to your neighbor, brother, sister, co-worker etc.
To real 'people'.


My very best to you,

John Velez
'Hew-man'  ;)


Sign the International Petition to the United Nations
for disclosure of information pertaining to UFOs.

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition








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   Oct > Oct 3

                            Re: Kanazawa - Jones

From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 18:12:15 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 14:57:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Kanazawa - Jones


 >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 18:14:04 -0700
 >Subject: Kanazawa

 >Dr. Bruce, and List.....

 >One of my all-time favorite videos is the one from Kanazawa,
 >Japan, around 1989 or so.

 >I was at Marge Christenson's house when Richard Haines viewed it
 >for the first time, and he actually raised an eyebrow and said
 >"Wow.", which for Dick Haines is the equivalent of jumping up and
 >down and screaming.

 >Bruce, I know you did an article for IUR comparing the Kanazawa
 >video to one shot in Hawaii - I think - but that's the last I
 >heard of it. Has anything developed on this fascinating footage
 >since then?

 >==JJS==

Hi Jim, Errol, All

I have a video of Kanazawa, Sensei Hirokazu Kanazawa. He is a
10th Dan Black Belt at Shotokan Karate, and the ultimate head of
JKA, the Japanese Karate Association.

Sensei Kanazawa is also one of the few remaining karateka
privileged to have trained under Master Gichin Funakoshi, the
famous Okinawan schoolteacher who brought Karate to mainland
Japan and  founded the Shotokan style. Shihan Kanazawa is still
the only karateka ever to have won the notorious All-Japan
Karate Championships three times in a row, on one occasion
winning the finals whilst nursing a broken wrist from an earlier
event!

However, I somehow doubt that this is the same tape that you are
talking about. <g>

For those that are interested, Sensei Kanazawa is teaching at a
Karate weekend in Essex in a little over a months time, I will
be attending.

Regards

Sean


--

    In an infinite universe, infinitely anything is possible.
                         Sean Jones
               http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/








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                             Re: Symbols [UMMO]

From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 20:09:54 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 15:47:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Symbols [UMMO]


 >From: Gregory Gutierez <greguti@free.fr>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 02:04:40 +0200
 >Subject: Re: Symbols

 >>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 09:54:56 EDT
 >>Subject: Re: Symbols

 >>Of course, then we have the question of which samples go to
 >>into which piles. There would be some who would see the
 >>contactee symbols as being as valuable as those from abductees
 >>and some who would look at the Roswell symbols as being more
 >>acceptable than the UMMO symbols.

 >Hi Kevin, everyone,

 >I don't know if there's been an announcement on this List about
 >a book published in French, about the UMMO language. The author
 >doesn't want to be known so he chose the nom de plume "Jean
 >Pollion". As in Champollion who discovered the meanings of the
 >Egyptian hieroglyphs.

<snip>

 >This is a very interesting work, because Pollion's discovery
 >looks very efficiant and logical in its frame. I'm sure it would
 >be accepted without criticism if it were presented as the
 >analysis of a human langage. It allows deciphering of the
 >meaning of an Ummo word and then checking that it fits,
 >perfectly, the context in which it was cited.

 >Pollion questions the hoax theory: who would do such long and
 >detailed letters during all these years, putting some alien
 >words in it that sound silly or stupid when you read it, but
 >that actually appear to be built on the same hidden rules and
 >bedrock? Indeed, the Ummo words look like extracts from a real
 >language.

<snip>

Gutierez has struck again. After defending the views of Pflock
and Jeffrey on Roswell, he now defends the infamous Ummo affair,
which is one of the craziest stories of ufology. The case, which
was born in the 60's in Spain, and died there in the 80's after
the main author of this elaborate hoax, Jordan Pena, denounced
himself, was reborn in France in the 90's, courtesy of physicist
Jean-Pierre Petit, with a best-seller published in 1990 (more
than 100,000 copies and is still in the bookstores, with other
books).

Jordan did not do it alone. He admitted, recently, that he got
technical and financial help from "American services". Spanish
researchers discovered that he had an accomplice for his clever
staging of false observations, and photographs, of the Ummo
craft, in 1966 and 1967. They discovered that the accomplice,
Vicente Ortuno, who was supposedly an independant witness in
1996 (in Aluche) was actually a good friend of Jordan Pena, the
main witness. The whole thing was a hoax and they admitted it.
In his book, Pollion did not mention that.

But never mind, it is so much fun to play with the weird
vocabulary of the Ummo letters (you cannot even build a simple
sentence with them).

I wrote a long article in French to try to defuse the mess, but
to no avail, apparently.

It can be read on the site of the group Ufocom, at:
http://www.ufocom.org/UfocomS/ummo_GB0

Here we go for more confusion in ufology.


Gildas Bourdais

P.S. I will be absent for a few days, Gutierez is free now to
keep up his 'good' work. But I 'll be back.









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   Oct > Oct 3

                     Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Gonzalez Manso

From: Luis R. Gonzalez Manso <lrgm@arrakis.es>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 20:07:54 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 15:52:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Gonzalez Manso


 >From: Gregory Gutierez <greguti@free.fr>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 02:04:40 +0200
 >Subject: Re: Symbols

 >a book published in French, about the UMMO language. The author
 >doesn't want to be known so he chose the nom de plume "Jean
 >Pollion". As in Champollion who discovered the meanings of the
 >Egyptian hieroglyphs.

 >The book was published by Aldane editions in June or July 2002
 >and is 500 pages. A CD-Rom was also available with a huge
 >dictionnary in it (around 1200 pages).

<snip>

Please, no. Not again.

Is it really impossible to close, _once and for all_, anything in
Ufology?!

UMMO was a _hoax_.

No doubt about it (at least among any serious researcher). I can
refer anybody interested to my article in Magonia #47 or in the
Spanish Cuadernos de Ufologia.

I hope in a few days I will be able to provide some web links.

So, all the efforts of Mr. "Jean Pollion" encyclopedia or Mr.
Jean-Pierre Petit cosmology are merely examples of something
like a Roscharch test.

For instance, in a recent INFORESPACE article, Johannes Gehrs
destroyed another of the recent theories proposed about the UMMO
language by Godelieve van Overmeire - see:

http://users.skynet.be/sky84985

  - that it was a human fabrication based on Chinese by non other
than Gordon Creighton!

Contactees non-withstanding (remember the famous "Martian
language" described by Helene Smith in late XIX century), the
problems of alien signs began (except sporadic cases such as
Socorro) with the very first abduction. Antonio Vilas Boas
reported about some strange signs inscribed in a wall.

Well, I will use the standard debunkers' tack: Considering the
huge amount of alleged aliens signs commented in the literature,
it is not surprising to find some coincidences.

Now, some qualifications. With all my respect for Mr. Velez and
his fellow abductees, some isolated coincidences do not an alien
experience make. To be convincing (at least for me), we should
have much more similarities. In any terrestrial text, whatever
the language, you will find plenty of symbols repeated (just
think how many "e" or ";" there are here), and the same should
be applicable to any alien language. Give me at lest 3 alleged
alien texts by 3 independent abductees with at least 3
coincidences among then and you will really atract my interest.

I will recomend another simpler test. There are already in the
literature several examples (Betty Andreasson Luca comes to
mind) of "alien texts". Are they similar?

LuisR








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   Oct > Oct 3

                 Houston, British Columbia Sighting 10-03-02

From: Brian Vike - HUFOBCC <yogibear@bulkley.net>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 12:21:03 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 15:54:31 -0400
Subject: Houston, British Columbia Sighting 10-03-02


Houston, British Columbia

Date: October 3, 2002
Time: 10:15 a.m.
Daylight Sighting

A Houston resident telephoned me this morning, October 3, 2002
and reported seeing a very strange object traveling slowly in a
southwesterly direction. The witness was on her telephone
talking with her daughter, she was looking out their kitchen
window which faces the Telkwa mountain range. She noticed a
strange, pale yellow colored object traveling slowly below the
horizon of the mountain range. She said it was completely
"round". The sky was clear, except for some low cloud/fog in
some areas. But the location where she observed the object, the
weather conditions were clear. The witness told her daughter to
hold on, dropped the telephone and ran outside onto their patio
deck to get a better look at it. At this time the object rose up
against the sky line, but still continued along it's path, which
again was in a southwesterly direction heading towards the
Morice River Road. (HBCC Note: This year, in 2002 there has been
a lot of UFO activity taking place in the same area).

She said there were no wings or propellers which would indicate
the object being a normal aircraft, again she said it was
completely round.

Now if I have any luck going for me, today I do the weekly radio
show with CJFW FM and I hope others will hear the radio show,
and if they have seen this object, they will make a report to
me. It was busy as usual in town, and loggers are running around
the Morice River Road area, so I am sure someone else would have
witnessed this as well. I will contact the local helicopter
operators to see if they, or someone may have been flying in
that area where the object was spotted, and at the time of 10:15
a.m.

I will keep you updated if anything else should come in on this
sighting.

Take care

Brian








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                           Re: Kanazawa - Speiser

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 12:38:57 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 16:21:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Kanazawa - Speiser


 >From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 18:12:15 +0100
 >Subject: Re: Kanazawa

 >>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 18:14:04 -0700
 >>Subject: Kanazawa

<snip>

 >I have a video of Kanazawa, Sensei Hirokazu Kanazawa. He is a
 >10th Dan Black Belt at Shotokan Karate, and the ultimate head of
 >JKA, the Japanese Karate Association.

 >Sensei Kanazawa is also one of the few remaining karateka
 >privileged to have trained under Master Gichin Funakoshi, the
 >famous Okinawan schoolteacher who brought Karate to mainland
 >Japan and  founded the Shotokan style. Shihan Kanazawa is still
 >the only karateka ever to have won the notorious All-Japan
 >Karate Championships three times in a row, on one occasion
 >winning the finals whilst nursing a broken wrist from an earlier
 >event!

 >However, I somehow doubt that this is the same tape that you are
 >talking about. <g>


I dunno, Sean... is he kind of a silvery color, with a saturn-
like ring?

==JJS==








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                     Nuclear Physicist To Speak On UFOs

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 16:30:45 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 16:30:45 -0400
Subject: Nuclear Physicist To Speak On UFOs

http://www.vvdailypress.com/cgi-bin/newspro/viewnews.cgi?newsid1033573835,19=
795,


Nuclear Physicist To Speak On UFOs

Thursday, October 2nd, 2002

By LEIGH MUZSLAY/Staff Writer

VICTORVILLE =97 About 50 years ago, a bargain-bin book set Stanton
Friedman on a new career path.

As a young nuclear physicist in 1950s, Friedman was ordering
books and needed an extra one so he could get free shipping and
handling.

He saw one on unidentified flying objects, or UFOs, for a $1 =97
marked down from $2.95 =97 and purchased it.

"I thought, 'Gee, if these things are real, maybe they use
nuclear power and that can help our program,' " Friedman said.

Three books, more than 80 published papers and hundreds of
lectures later, Friedman was honored Sept. 21 with a Lifetime
Achievement Award at the Leeds International UFO Conference in
England. Tonight at Victor Valley Community College, Friedman,
68, will give an illustrated lecture titled, "Flying Saucers
are Real!"

After years of study and visits to 19 document archives,
Friedman believes that visits by alien spacecraft have been
covered by the government in a kind of "cosmic Watergate."

He said that in his audiences, about 10 percent of the crowd
says they've seen a UFO.

But, he said that only 10 percent of them ever reported it
because they fear not being believed.

Since his first lecture in 1967, Friedman has appeared on
hundreds of radio and TV programs, including "Larry King Live,"
"Entertainment Tonight," "Nightline," "Sightings," "Unsolved
Mysteries," "Leeza" and "Art Bell."

---

Leigh Muzslay can be reached at leigh_muzslay@link.freedom.com

-----

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   Oct > Oct 3

                        Efforts Put Aztec On The Map

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 16:34:46 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 16:34:46 -0400
Subject: Efforts Put Aztec On The Map

http://www.daily-times.com/Stories/0,1413,129%257E6568%257E896963,00.html

Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 11:53:27 PM MST

Efforts Put Aztec On The Map

Editor:

I read an article in The Daily Times dated Sept. 20, entitled,
"New Mexico overlooks Aztec on the state highway map," with
great interest.

I would like to thank Pete Rahn, secretary of the State Highway
Department, for his candid comments about Aztec's omission from
the State Highway Department map and I quote, "You make us mad
we make you disappear."

Rahn also drew a parallel between Aztec and Roswell. Usually
it's Roswell that disappears, Rahn said. But Aztec has it's own
UFO crash site, which could explain the unexplainable.

Friends of the Aztec Library find it rewarding to have their
efforts bandied about in the press. We're glad that Mr. Rahn is
aware that we do have a noteworthy UFO incident in Aztec and
that the world does indeed know about it.

Mr. Rahn did you know:

The Aztec Public Library and the Friends group started a dialog
on the "alleged UFO Crash" in 1998, and this Annual UFO Crash
and Aztec Symposium is now in its sixth year with the past five
events spawning:

Annual Space Art Contests, with entries from India, making it an
International Art Contest

Two play productions written by local playwright, Charles Pike.

An annual Alien Run Mountain Bike Competition, now part of the
Four Corners Cup Mountain Bike Competition.

Development of an UFO Information Center/Gift Shop in operation
for over one year, manned by volunteers, with visitors from ten
countries and forty different states.

An ongoing Oral History Project.

Four annual stargazes.

A web page www.aztecufo.com with inquiries from as far away as
Macedonia.

A special collection of donated items featuring UFO related
books and videos.

Featured in various national and international press including:
articles in over twenty-five newspapers and two in Canada, Radio
interview requests from Johannesburg, South Africa; CBS Radio,
New York; Associated Press, Washington D.C.; Charlie Van Dyke
Show, Phoenix, Ariz.

Feature story filmed March 2 by Tokyo Broadcast System's
Unsolved Mysterious of the world; number one rated Japanese game
show, boasting over 20 million viewers, which aired in April 2.
Feature stories in Los Angeles Times; UFO Magazine; and two in
New Mexico Magazine.

All this effort of course goes to increase awareness and support
for a new library in Aztec, but more than that it has indeed put
the city of Aztec on the map!

Leanne Hathcock
Vice-President
Friends of the Aztec Library
Aztec


-----

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   Oct > Oct 3

                 'Muhnochwa' Scare Spreads To Madhya Pradesh

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 16:58:56 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 16:58:56 -0400
Subject: 'Muhnochwa' Scare Spreads To Madhya Pradesh

http://news.sify.com/cgi-bin/sifynews/news/content/news_fullstory_v2.jsp?BV_Sess
ionID=@@@@0657573007.1033690415@@@@&BV_EngineID=cadcffemdjkibemgcfkmcgedng.0&art
icle_oid=11992918&page_no=1

Friday, October 04, 2002

'Muhnochwa' Scare Spreads To Madhya Pradesh
By Sanjay Sharma in Bhopal

After the havoc in Uttar Pradesh, the Muhnochwa (face-scratcher)
scare has now spread to Madhya Pradesh.

"Muhnochwa", it is believed, plucks flesh from the mouth and
other body parts of the victim with long and deadly claws.

More than a dozen attacks have been reported from villages in
the Aron development block of Guna district in the last one
month.

The first incident took place in village Russalgaon, about 9 kms
from Aron on the night of September 8. Ramsingh, who was
sleeping in the verandah of his house was attacked around 4 in
the morning. He got deep gashes on his face.

A little later, twelve-year-old Chandrabhan of the same village
was hit just below his eyes. His mother sustained injuries in
her hand while trying to save her son.

Two days later, Shivcharan Gehlot of the same village woke up in
the night to find "a strange animal" sitting on his chest.

Anti-rabies injections have been administered to all the victims
in the Guna district hospital.

While the creature has chosen the chief minister Digvijay
Singh's constituency to announce its presence in the state, the
forest department says it was unable to identify the animal,
which, some say, exists only in the minds of its victims.

In Uttar Pradesh, the mass hysteria and agitations that followed
the sighting of the "muhnochwa" led Home Secretary Deepti Vlias
to request scientists to launch a probe.

Scientists at IIT Kanpur had then come up with a rational
explanation for the "muhnochwa": The "monster", who according to
villagers, claws away flesh from the face of victim and then
flies away, is not an alien, but flashes of lightning caused by
poor conductivity of earth due to the severe dry spell,
scientists had said.

-----

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   Oct > Oct 3

                  Re: Efforts Put Aztec On The Map - Sandow

From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 16:46:08 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 17:02:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Efforts Put Aztec On The Map - Sandow


 >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>)
 >Date: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:35 PM
 >To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers 03 - :
 >Subject: UFO UpDate: Efforts Put Aztec On The Map

 >The Aztec Public Library and the Friends group started a dialog
 >on the "alleged UFO Crash" in 1998, and this Annual UFO Crash
 >and Aztec Symposium is now in its sixth year with the past five
 >events spawning:

 >Annual Space Art Contests, with entries from India, making it an
 >International Art Contest

 >Two play productions written by local playwright, Charles Pike.

 >An annual Alien Run Mountain Bike Competition, now part of the
 >Four Corners Cup Mountain Bike Competition.

 >Development of an UFO Information Center/Gift Shop in operation
 >for over one year, manned by volunteers, with visitors from ten
 >countries and forty different states.

 >An ongoing Oral History Project.

An oral history of an event that never happened?

If these nice people in Aztec can find anyone local who
remembers the alleged crash, they're doing better than a
generation of UFO researchers.


Greg Sandow








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                            Re: Kanazawa - Erkmen

From: Eeol Erkmen <eerkmen@tuvpo.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 00:10:31 +0300
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 19:25:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Kanazawa - Erkmen

 >Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 10:11:35 -0400
 >From: Steve Jones <stvjns@gargoylemechanique.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: Symbols


I did not see and remember this and therefore I was anxious
about it. Is there any web page where I can see.


Regards,

Erol Erkmen
tuvpo.com











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   Oct > Oct 3

                            Re: Kanazawa - Jones

From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 22:08:44 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 19:26:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Kanazawa - Jones



 >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 12:38:57 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Kanazawa

 >>I have a video of Kanazawa, Sensei Hirokazu Kanazawa. He is a
 >>10th Dan Black Belt at Shotokan Karate, and the ultimate head of
 >>JKA, the Japanese Karate Association.

 >>Sensei Kanazawa is also one of the few remaining karateka
 >>privileged to have trained under Master Gichin Funakoshi, the
 >>famous Okinawan schoolteacher who brought Karate to mainland
 >>Japan and  founded the Shotokan style. Shihan Kanazawa is still
 >>the only karateka ever to have won the notorious All-Japan
 >>Karate Championships three times in a row, on one occasion
 >>winning the finals whilst nursing a broken wrist from an earlier
 >>event!

 >>However, I somehow doubt that this is the same tape that you are
 >>talking about. <g>

 >I dunno, Sean... is he kind of a silvery color, with a saturn-
 >like ring?

 >==JJS==

Er, no. His hair is all but silvery :o)

Check out

http://basic1.easily.co.uk/059060/054062/ShihanKanazawa.html


Regards

Sean
--

    In an infinite universe, infinitely anything is possible.
                         Sean Jones
               http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/








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                         Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Rimmer

From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 22:31:46 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 19:28:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Rimmer


 >From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 20:09:54 +0200
 >Subject: Re: Symbols [UMMO]

 >But never mind, it is so much fun to play with the weird
 >vocabulary of the Ummo letters (you cannot even build a simple
 >sentence with them).

 >I wrote a long article in French to try to defuse the mess, but
 >to no avail, apparently.

 >It can be read on the site of the group Ufocom, at:
 >http://www.ufocom.org/UfocomS/ummo_GB0


Also have a look at Luis Gonzalez's piece in Magonia, at:

http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/90/ummo.htm

--
John Rimmer
Magonia Magazine
www.magonia.demon.co.uk







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                        Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Gutierez

From: Gregory Gutierez <greguti@free.fr>
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 23:59:23 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 08:02:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Gutierez


 >From: Luis R. Gonzalez Manso <lrgm@arrakis.es>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 20:07:54 +0200
 >Subject: Re: Symbols [UMMO]

 >Please, no. Not again.

Hi all, hi Luis,

 >Is it really impossible to close, _once and for all_, anything
 >in Ufology?!

 >UMMO was a _hoax_.

 >No doubt about it (at least among any serious researcher).

 >I can refer anybody interested to my article in Magonia #47
 >or in the Spanish Cuadernos de Ufologia.


I was giving new information about the Ummo case in the context
of our discussion about alleged alien symbols. Kevin Randle
noted that the main problem was to get rid of hoaxes and false
data. The Ummo exemple is, I believe, a unique case of study of
an alleged alien writtings and symbols.

Compared to other "langages" (as the Helen Smith case studied by
Theodor Flournoy), the datas (1500 letters, something like 200
occurences of the Ummit "words" and lots of Ummit symbols) are
strong enough to pretend to do an analysis of it.

But I didn't give clearly my opinion on the Ummo case and maybe
you believed that for me Ummits defenitly are among us!

So here is my statement about Ummo: I am quite sceptical about
the alleged alien origin of all these letters, because Pena did
admit that he wrote the letters and produced some arguments
about it.

But another point is for sure: Luis Jordan Pena is not that
clear in his several statements. First he said he wrote all the
letters alone.

Then he produced another story: he was actually working for a
mysterious American agency (this is the favorite point for the
"X-Files-oid" ufologists). He never gave any clue about this
mysterious and bizarre agency who spend its money sending
curious letters for 20 years to a bunch of 30 spanish weirdos.

In the same time he told to other ummologists that he made this
statement on purpose because the Ummits asked him to do it in
order to debunk the whole story.

He never produced any draft of the letters. He didn't seem to
have all the knowledge necessary to write all these letters
about so many subjects, sometimes very detailled (astronomy,
biology, history, theology, evolution of life, parapsychology,
engineering and technology, computers, etc., etc.).

Remember what David Rudiak said few days ago about the dubious
statments of the "balloon" witnesses in the Roswell case?

To me, the probability that this Ummo story is just a wonderful
hoax by Pena is quite important, but not a hundred percent sure.
Lets say something like 75-80% of probability in my opinion,
today in october 2002.

But even if Pena is actually the man behind the letters, we have
here the biggest hoax of ufology in the 20th century, and this
   deserves the attention of serious ufologists who pretend to be
able to recognise "real" ufo cases from the false ones (how to
do it properly without studying the false ones?).

No standard contactee, neither abductee, could claim to have
produce such an important story lasting for so long and creating
so many books.

The art of Pena is comparable to the art of Jorge Luis Borges or
Izaac Azimov for example (I regret that very few letters have
been translated in english. You can easily read it as an
anticipation novel cut in letters like a puzzle, a kind of game
with the reader).

By the way, I didn't give the title of the book by Jean Pollion
in my last mail:

"Ummo - de vrais extraterrestres! - Panorama compl=E9t=E9 par le
pr=E9cis du syst=E8me id=E9ophon=E9mique" Aldane Editions, 2002
http://www.ovni.ch/boutique/aldane.htm


I hope M. Jerome Clark is on the List. His marvellous UFO
Encyclopedia is one of the fundamental books about ufology in my
opinion.

There is an interesting synthesis of the "ummo hoax" in p.939-
942 of the 2d edition. There are some mistakes in this article,
mainly explained by the fact that the author used the books of
Jacques Vallee as a source. Unfortunatly Vallee did write some
enormous nonsense about Ummo, he seemed to have a very
superficial knowledge of the story.

One important affirmation of this "Ummo hoax" article is false.
Lets see it:

"The Ummites allegedly effected a landing near a village in the
French Alps on April 24, 1950. The crew lived in a cave for a
time, venturing out once to an isolated house in the middle of
the night. There, after anesthetizing the owners, their
children, and their three employees, they stole a number of
items. Government investigators found neither the cave nor the
police records that would have verified the story."

In the letter in which this adventure is depicted, it is said
that "they" stole, among other usual objects, the power supply
device of the farm (a quite eccentric object to steal with no
value at all in black market). 2 years laters, reads the letter,
the Ummites sent a lot of cash to the owners of the farm in
repayment for the burglary (they didn't understand what was the
concept of money at the time).

The allusion of "government investigators" may refer to Claude
Poher, future leader of the governmental agency GEPAN (the
ancestor of our current SEPRA). Claude Poher tried to find in
the police records a trace of a complaint about a power device
robbery, in the French Alps in 1950.

Well... Poher actualy _did_ find the complaint in the police
records!

He even did find the owners of the farm in which the robbery
took place in 1950. We were in 1972 and they were now living in
the Cote d'Azur, a rich and picturesque region of France. They
claimed they had had lot of money thanks to the heritage from a
very distant relative in USA who died few years earlier. (p.66
of the book by Jean Pollion, also accounted in the books by
Jean-Pierre Petit and some other sources)

Maybe Pena is such a perfectionist that in 1950, 15 years before
he begun to send Ummit letters to some spanish ufologists, he
stole a power supply in a tiny little village of the French
Alps. We live in such a strange world... :)

Thanks a lot for your time everyone, and excuse my sometimes
poor english,


Regards,

Gregory Gutierez
Paris, France







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   Oct > Oct 4

                           Re: Kanazawa - Speiser

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 16:08:46 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 08:04:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Kanazawa - Speiser


 >From: Erol Erkmen <eerkmen@tuvpo.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 14:58:32 +0300
 >Subject: Re: Kanazawa

 >>One of my all-time favorite videos is the one from Kanazawa,
 >>Japan, around 1989 or so.

 ><snip>

 >Jim,

 >Where can I find the Kanazawa video?


I honestly don't know. I'm sure others here do, however. I have
a grainy, multi-generation copy, which probably would not
reproduce well.


==JJS==








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                           Re: Kanazawa - Speiser

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 16:09:31 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 08:05:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Kanazawa - Speiser


 >From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos@yahoo.es>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 14:05:26 +0200 (CEST)
 >Subject: Re: Kanazawa

 >>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 18:14:04 -0700
 >>Subject: Kanazawa

 ><snip>

 >>Bruce, I know you did an article for IUR comparing the Kanazawa
 >>video to one shot in Hawaii - I think - but that's the last I
 >>heard of it. Has anything developed on this fascinating footage
 >>since then?

 >Which IUR issue, please?


One from a long time ago. I'm sure Bruce can tell you. I'm going
totally on memory here.

==JJS==








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                              Rudiak vs. Moore

From: Bruce Hutchinson <bhutch@grassyhill.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 19:12:58 -500
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 08:15:55 -0400
Subject: Rudiak vs. Moore


Dear Listerians, Dave Rudiak, and Readers;

(Tim Printy, who did the lion's share of research and writing up
the work cited below, is not a member of this List. As I had a
small hand in putting the essay together, Tim asked me to write
up this announcement.)

A few weeks ago, David Rudiak published on his web site the
results of his investigation into Prof Charles Moore's
evaluation of NYU Flight #4, and especially Moore's contention
that what Mac Brazel found, and Major Jessie Marcel brought back
to the Roswell AAFB, was probably the remains of this balloon
train and its radar reflectors. Rudiak's study focused on a
chart of wind data published in the book co-authored by Moore
("UFO Crash at Roswell; The Genesis of a Modern Myth") and a
flight path plot Moore developed from this table.

In his essay, Rudiak now contends that Moore fudged his
calculations to make it fit the requirement of the debunkers
that Flight #4 crashed on Foster's Ranch. He claims this because
he and Brad Sparks tried to re-construct in a spreadsheet the
flight plot, using the table of wind data published in Moore's
book. To his absolute delight, the graph he produced did not
match Moore's! David, no doubt, was ecstatic, for this seemed to
prove conclusively that Moore lied, and was deliberately hoaxing
the flight path of #4.

As Rudiak worked with this discovery, he fiddled with his
version of the graph to try and make it fit the flight profile
presented by Moore. Prompted by Sparks, he found that by
radically altering 5 data points, he was able to develop a plot
line that seemed close to Moore's, and thus "discovered" a 30
minute discrepancy that further convinced him Moore deliberately
manipulated his version for nefarious purposes.

A-ha! exclaimed David- the "Smoking Gun" at last!

Rudiak was so excited he failed to ask himself One Vital
Question:

  - Why did the plot points on his graph fail to match all but
one of Moore's?

Even in the most cursory comparison of the graphs, this question
stands out like a sore thumb. Such an obvious discrepancy
intrigued Tim Printy, and he wondered what could have caused
such a wide margin of error, and why David failed to comment on
this in his essay.

As many of you know, Tim maintains a web site dealing with
Roswell and other UFO incidents. He has posted to his site a
complete analysis of David's claims, and has found that not only
is Rudiak guilty of misreading the wind tables, but of a
sustained, deliberate, and vicious misrepresentation of Moore's
work.

http://members.aol.com/tprinty2/rudiak.html

Many people, including myself, might not immediately recognize
the differences in the wind data tables Moore published. As it
turns out, David Rudiak and Brad Sparks are among them. However,
Tim did, and was surprised to find that his chart not only
matched Moore's flight profile, but unlike David's, it also
matched Moore's data points almost exactly! Tim was able to
reconstruct Rudiak's mistakes, and demonstrate how a simple
misreading of the wind tables has lead to a whole series of
false conclusions on David's part. There was no "secret turn",
no missing 30 minutes. All of David's many variations are
invalid (especially his ludicrous Kellihan version), and we are
right back to where we started- Moore's analysis and plots are
still valid. Once you look at Tim's work, you will understand
that Rudiak's "proof" is in reality nothing more than human
error on his part.

Rudiak could be excused at this point if he had confined his
arguments to his "discovery", and if he had dealt with the other
issues he raised in a reasonably objective manner. However, he
obviously thought that now he had incontrovertible proof of
Moore's duplicity, and it was time for an all out attack- not
only on Moore's analysis, but on Moore personally.

Tim's research demonstrates David's highly selective method of
extracting passages from Moore's book, and then falsely claiming
that Moore failed to address these issues when in fact, Moore
did provide detailed explanations. As Tim writes, "Rudiak relies
on the fact that Moore's book and the 1994 AF report are not
widely available to the reader and therefore, they must accept
HIS representations as accurate".

It is one thing to dispute Moore's assumptions, analysis and
conclusions, but to so blatantly misrepresent Moore's research
in this manner should be loudly and publicly condemned by the
UFO community. If Rudiak had been reasonably honest representing
Moore's writings, then his essay could be viewed as a
legitimate, but flawed effort to question Moore's contention
that Brazel found the remains of Flight #4. Unfortunately,
Rudiak decided that honest representation was not in his best
interest.

Obviously, David is bent on destroying Moore any way he can. Not
content with his distortions of Moore's work, he apparently felt
that he had to "kick it up a notch" by using what might best be
described as "kook descriptions" to attack Moore personally. The
viciousness of this attack surprised even me, and, I suspect, a
large number of you.

It would have been ideal to have Tim's work presented here, but
as it requires several graphs and tables, that is not possible.
Once you have read through this rebuttal, I know that most of
you will come away with an entirely different perspective of
what Moore tried to show, and Rudiak's attempt to distort that
work.

This episode brings back up the question of Peer Review in the
UFO community. Had Rudiak submitted his work to independent
review prior to publication, there is no doubt that many of his
mistakes would have been caught. Regretfully, it appears that
most members of this List are content to blindly accept
"research" like Rudiak's as is - no questions asked, just
fawning acceptance. So it falls to the Skeptics to provide the
required review - as usual.

I find this attitude disturbing as it demonstrates the major
weakness in much of what passes for UFO research today. All
research _must_ be questioned - it is the only way to distill
out imperfections, blind alleys, and false conclusions. If egos
cannot stand the criticisms, then that individual's work should
not be recognized.

Tim expects that his work will be examined very closely by many
of you, and that there will be many serious questions asked as a
result. That is right and proper, the way it should be. But one
wonders: where were the questions when Rudiak posted his essay?

While David Rudiak is demonstratively wrong in his charting of
flight #4, his errors did serve one useful purpose. To my
knowledge, no one to date has attempted a serious look at
Moore's calculations - at least publicly. It can now be said
that the calculations used by Moore have been checked, and no
significant errors have surfaced yet. Of course, Prof. Moore has
clearly stated that this calculated track is simply one possible
solution, based in part on derived data and assumptions drawn
from his years of experience. While it would be interesting if a
Qualified Atmospheric Physicist would independently examine
Moore's reconstructions, it is still valid to state that the
data available will support a very reasonable hypothesis- Brazel
found Flight #4's remains on Foster's Ranch, and it ended up on
Ramey's office floor.


Regards,

Bruce Hutchinson








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   Oct > Oct 4

               Re: 'Muhnochwa' Scare Spreads To Madhya Pradesh

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 21:43:22 -0300
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 08:18:54 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Muhnochwa' Scare Spreads To Madhya Pradesh


 >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers -
 >Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 16:58:56 -0400
 >Subject: 'Muhnochwa' Scare Spreads To Madhya Pradesh


 >Source:  Sify.com - Taramani, Chennai, India

 >http://news.sify.com/cgi-bin/sifynews/news/content/news_fullstory_v2.jsp?BV_Se
ssionID=@@@@0657573007.1033690415@@@@&BV_EngineID=cadcffemdjkibemgcfkmcgedng.0&a
rticle_oid=11992918&page_no=1

 >Friday, October 04, 2002

 >'Muhnochwa' Scare Spreads To Madhya Pradesh
 >By Sanjay Sharma in Bhopal

<snip>

 >In Uttar Pradesh, the mass hysteria and agitations that followed
 >the sighting of the "muhnochwa" led Home Secretary Deepti Vlias
 >to request scientists to launch a probe.

 >Scientists at IIT Kanpur had then come up with a rational
 >explanation for the "muhnochwa": The "monster", who according to
 >villagers, claws away flesh from the face of victim and then
 >flies away, is not an alien, but flashes of lightning caused by
 >poor conductivity of earth due to the severe dry spell,
 >scientists had said.

 >-----

Once again the "mass hysteria" monster attacks. A myth to
explain a myth.

Don






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   Oct > Oct 4

                        Large Object Falls In Siberia

From: Kelly Peterborough <kellymcg@attcanada.ca>
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 22:08:30 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 08:53:09 -0400
Subject: Large Object Falls In Siberia


Source: Russian Gazette

http://www.gazeta.ru/intnews.shtml?204713#204713

Large celestial object falls to earth in Siberia

Gazeta Russia

"Residents of Bodaibo in the Irkutsk region of Siberia were eye
witnesses to the descent of a large celestial object.

Scientists think it might have been a meteorite.

The regional staff of the Ministry for Civil Defence and
Emergencies reported on Thursday that they had been informed
about the unusual phenomenon by the Institute of Solar and Earth
Psychics of the Eastern Siberian Department of the Russian
Academy of Sciences.

Scientists said that Bodaibo residents had witnessed the fall of
a very large, luminous body, which looked like a huge boulder.

The unidentified object fell in the hills in the taiga between
the villages of Bodaibo and Balakhninsky.

Although that place is located far from the two villages, people
felt a tremor comparable to an earthquake, the source said. They
also heard a loud noise.

Sporadic flashes have been seen above the site."








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               Re: Nuclear Physicist To Speak On UFOs - Gates

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 00:36:38 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 09:21:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Nuclear Physicist To Speak On UFOs - Gates


 >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers -
 >Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 16:30:45 -0400
 >Subject: Nuclear Physicist To Speak On UFOs

 >Source: The Daily Press - Victorville California

=
 >http://www.vvdailypress.com/cgi-bin/newspro/viewnews.cgi?newsid1033573835,=
19795,


 >Nuclear Physicist To Speak On UFOs

 >Thursday, October 2nd, 2002

 >By LEIGH MUZSLAY/Staff Writer

 >VICTORVILLE =E2=80=94 About 50 years ago, a bargain-bin book set Stanton
 >Friedman on a new career path.

 >As a young nuclear physicist in 1950s, Friedman was ordering
 >books and needed an extra one so he could get free shipping and
 >handling.

 >He saw one on unidentified flying objects, or UFOs, for a $1 =E2=80=94
 >marked down from $2.95 =E2=80=94 and purchased it.

 >"I thought, 'Gee, if these things are real, maybe they use
 >nuclear power and that can help our program,' " Friedman said.

 >Three books, more than 80 published papers and hundreds of
 >lectures later, Friedman was honored Sept. 21 with a Lifetime
 >Achievement Award at the Leeds International UFO Conference in
 >England. Tonight at Victor Valley Community College, Friedman,
 >68, will give an illustrated lecture titled, "Flying Saucers
 >are Real!"

Congrats to Stan on the Lifetime Achievement Award. It is good
to see a person on the UFO lecture circuit that is reliable...
unlike others whose credentials and backgrounds can't be
verified.

Cheers,

Robert







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                  Re: Efforts Put Aztec On The Map - Gates

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 01:24:03 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 09:23:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Efforts Put Aztec On The Map - Gates


 >From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 16:46:08 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Efforts Put Aztec On The Map

 >>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>)
 >>Date: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:35 PM
 >>To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers 03 - :
 >>Subject: UFO UpDate: Efforts Put Aztec On The Map

 >>The Aztec Public Library and the Friends group started a dialog
 >>on the "alleged UFO Crash" in 1998, and this Annual UFO Crash
 >>and Aztec Symposium is now in its sixth year with the past five
 >>events spawning:

<snip>

 >>An ongoing Oral History Project.

 >An oral history of an event that never happened?

 >If these nice people in Aztec can find anyone local who
 >remembers the alleged crash, they're doing better than a
 >generation of UFO researchers.

Hi Greg & List,

I do agree with you on Aztec and from what I have seen its part
of the Silas Newton hoax.

That being said, prior to 1980 Roswell was also considered a
giant non event, nothing, weather balloon.


Cheers,

Robert







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                      Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 23:39:55 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 09:26:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Hatch


 >From: Kelly Peterborough <kellymcg@attcanada.ca>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 18:40:07 -0400
 >Subject: Flight-Paths Of UFOs

 >I'm way behind on my e-mails (about 400) due to computer
 >troubles so apologies if I haven't responded to any e-mails.
 >I have a question though that I was hoping this august group
 >could answer.

 >I just read on another List that it has been 'verified'
 >(no sources cited) [no surprise -LH] that the 'majority'
 >(no percentage given) [no surprise -LH] of UFOs flight-paths
 >take a north to south or south to north direction.

 >My dear Larry H., is this something you have kept track
 >of in your database? Anybody else have any comments?
 >And if the above is true, any speculation as to why?


Hello Kelly:

My sincere empathy on the computer problems. My system went
belly up recently, the internal power supply went off like 4th
of July fireworks.

It would be nice to know what List this 'verified' North-South
biz was published on, maybe you could copy the message here?

Did anyone ask the pertinent questions of the expert who came up
with those assertions? I.e. who or what verified those findings?
What are the actual numbers....?

I guess it couldn't have been the *U* UFO Database. There is
indeed a routine looking for just that info, the very last item
on the Statistics Menu called Trajectory Counts.

I just ran it off for the entire database, it took maybe 15
seconds. Out of some 17,879 listings, 5256 of those indicate
some direction of travel.

If the UFO maneuvered or turned, the last direction seen is the
one registered i.e. Which way did they go?

For those 5256 relevant listings worldwide for all dates, here
are grand totals :

North South East West
  1766 1774 1684 1799

Total for N+S = 3540, total for E+W = 3483, a difference well
under 2%, which is seems statistically meaningless.

Those were worldwide now. Maybe the mystery writer meant
statistics for North America alone. For N.America I see:

North South East West
  872 891 814 939

Here N+S totals 1763, E+W totals 1753. Again virtually
meaningless.

My routine also breaks down the data by hemispheres, other
continents, by decades and so on. Nowhere do I see a
preponderance of N-S over E-W nor the reverse for that matter.

I once did a tedious study delimiting specific parts of the USA
by Longitude and Latitude. Don't hold me to this, but if memory
serves, Coastal areas of the USA (at least) showed a slight
tendency for UFOs to fly onshore and offshore, as opposed to
parallel to the coastline.

This was somewhat more pronounced along the Gulf coast, where
the small excess was indeed North and South. Along the Atlantic
and Pacific coasts where the correlation was weaker, the excess
trajectories were East-West. I would have to repeat a lot of
work to verify this, and don't have time now.

A couple of Trajectories Maps might help illustrate things. One
is for San Francisco area, the other for New Zealand:

http://www.larryhatch.net/SFTRAJ.html

http://www.larryhatch.net/NZTRAJ.html

I would be interested in the authenticity and verification of
the N-S claims, not to mention the identity of the claimant. My
email address is <larry@larryhatch.net>if you prefer to write
offline.

Thanks for bringing the matter up!


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch







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                             To Readers At OISE

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 09:43:38 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 09:43:38 -0400
Subject: To Readers At OISE

Is there a study/course being conducted? Or are you simply
interested individuals?

An enquiring mind... with privacy guaranteed.....

Errol Bruce-Knapp
Moderator UFO UpDates - Toronto
Webmaster - Virtually Strange Network
ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net





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              Six Witnesses Come Forward Reporting To HBCC UFO

From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 23:49:15 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 10:24:31 -0400
Subject: Six Witnesses Come Forward Reporting To HBCC UFO


Hi List

Six New Witnesses Come Forward With Their Stories

On July 29, 2002 a major sighting took place in Houston, Quick,
Telkwa and Smithers British Columbia, Canada in which I
investigated. I went and sat down with nine witnesses in the
different areas and did interviews with everyone involved. I
broke the reports down into section, which can be seen on my
website plus I also posted all reports to the lists.

Tonight, October 3, 2002 I had a telephone call from a lady in
Sayward, British Columbia which is located on Vancouver Island.
She told me an incredible story of what she witnessed on the
night of July 29, 2002.

Also she gave me two other telephone numbers of other witnesses
who saw the same thing, also she is sending me the other phone
numbers for the other folks who also saw this event take place.
This brings 6 new witnesses for this event, and with the nine
witnesses I have already talked with, the total number of people
who watched this whole thing unfold has numbered 15 in total.

I have a lot of new information in which I received tonight on
this, a lot of drawings from many of the witnesses are going to
be faxed to me, plus questionnaires, etc...

This witness said to me, from the way this object acted, there
was no way it was a meteor. (Her Words) Of course it could have
been, but after she told me somethings in which one of the other
witnesses said to her. I believe this may have been something
else.

So please bare with me, I am on the trail once again, and I will
be contacting the other two witnesses in which I have phone
numbers for right now. I will call then tomorrow night to gather
their reports. The rest will follow as the telephone numbers
come into me.

The sighting report was sent to the NUFORC, by the witness I
talked with tonight. We certainly have a lot of details given to
me, and a lot to come.

Now how all this came about tonight was, the North Island
Gazette newspaper, they ran a article on me, and the witnesses
mother read it and contacted her daughter to get a hold of me.

So lots to come, and I will have the whole story posted as soon
as I receive all the information. This was a really surprise
tonight to receive this information, as I had only heard of the
Vancouver witnesses and had no idea who they were. Now I do.
Cool.


Take care
Brian

HBCC UFO Research
Editor: Canadian Communicator (Paranormal Magazine)








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                  Re: Efforts Put Aztec On The Map - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 00:12:49 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 10:28:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Efforts Put Aztec On The Map - Hatch


 >From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 16:46:08 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Efforts Put Aztec On The Map

 >>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>)
 >>Date: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:35 PM
 >>To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers 03 - :
 >>Subject: UFO UpDate: Efforts Put Aztec On The Map

 >>The Aztec Public Library and the Friends group started a dialog
 >>on the "alleged UFO Crash" in 1998, and this Annual UFO Crash
 >>and Aztec Symposium is now in its sixth year with the past five
 >>events spawning:

 >>Annual Space Art Contests, with entries from India, making it an
 >>International Art Contest

 >>Two play productions written by local playwright, Charles Pike.

 >>An annual Alien Run Mountain Bike Competition, now part of the
 >>Four Corners Cup Mountain Bike Competition.

 >>Development of an UFO Information Center/Gift Shop in operation
 >>for over one year, manned by volunteers, with visitors from ten
 >>countries and forty different states.

 >>An ongoing Oral History Project.

- - -

 >An oral history of an event that never happened?

 >If these nice people in Aztec can find anyone local who
 >remembers the alleged crash, they're doing better than a
 >generation of UFO researchers.


Haah!  Hello Greg:

At least the town appears on a 1969 NM map, it was still there
when I drove thru in the 1988 or thereabouts.

I vaguely recall reading of an entrance to some Alien
Underground Base right behind a MacDonald's outlet, the
subterranean diet being somewhat more esoteric. That was in the
days of BBS ufology, a precursor to the Sciences of the Internet
as I might call it.

Aztec showed in fairly dark print, i.e. more than two horses and
a gas pump, over 2500 people in 1969 per the legend.

What are the chances the Aztec, NM Chamber of Commerce kicked
around the idea of a second Roswell? Naah! Who'd do something
like that?

Best

- Larry

PS: The name Bonnybridge, Scotland rings in my ears for some
reason.







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                  Re: Falsified and Fabricated Data - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 23:58:56 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 10:26:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Falsified and Fabricated Data - Hatch


 >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 09:47:43 EDT
 >Subject: Re: Falsified and Fabricated Data

 >>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren@pacbell.net>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 08:52:41 -0700
 >>Subject: Re: Falsified and Fabricated Data

 >>>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >>>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 13:03:20 -0700
 >>>Subject: Re: Falsified and Fabricated Data

 >>>>From: Gregory Gutierez <greguti@free.fr>
 >>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto (<ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>>Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 20:54:15 +0200
 >>>>Subject: Re: Falsified and Fabricated Data

 >>>>>- What was the exact surface of the remains found?

<snip>

 >>>>Please excuse my English, sometimes I lack the right words.

 >>>>With my question "What was the exact surface of the remains?" I
 >>>>wanted to ask: what were the length and width of the territory
 >>>>covered by the debris? The size of it is an important point in
 >>>>order to find what exactly crashed that day near Roswell.

 >>>Ahh! The surface area! I understand it was quite large, spread
 >>>all over the place. It could have been something like an acre,
 >>>but Stanton Friedman probably has the best answer for that.

 >>>Sorry for the misunderstanding.

 >>Hello Gregg & Larry & All,

 >>Since Stan is on the road, I'll offer the information; "Weighing
 >>heavily against the scattered wreckage being any sort of balloon
 >>was its condition; pieces were spread out of and area more then
 >>250,000 square feet ('200 yards in diameter')

 >>-Page 82, "Crash At Corona."

 >Good Morning, Frank, List, All -

 >There really is no one answer for this question (just as there
 >seems to be no one answer for many of the Roswell related
 >questions).

 >Jesse Marcel, Sr. said there area was about three-quarters of a
 >mile by two or three hundred yards...

 >Bill Brazel described a large area with a gouge about five
 >hundred feet long and about ten feet at its widest (which, if
 >accurate, rules out a balloon, period)...

 >General Exon suggested a large area that was easily visible from
 >the air...

 >Bessie Brazel suggested a small area, meaning that she, her
 >brother and her father cleaned it all up and put it all into
 >four burlap bags that they stored under the front porch...

 >The Roswell Daily Record reported that the area was only 200
 >yards in diameter...

 >Bud Payne seemed to confirm the size as related by Bill Brazel,
 >but mentioned no gouge (much the pity)...

 >Walt Whitmore, Jr. suggested he had seen the area after the Army
 >clean up and said he found a stretch of about 175 to 200 yards
 >that had been up-rooted in a fan-like pattern (I should probably
 >point out that Whitmore's story changed radically over the years
 >until he insisted that he saw the remains of a weather balloon
 >and even gathered some samples, which he was never able to
 >produce)...

 >Sheridan Cavitt (after telling me repeatedly that he hadn't been
 >there, hadn't gone out to the site, had never participated in
 >the retrievel of a balloon) said the area was small...

 >So, there really is no one answer and the problem might be when
 >a specific person was there, what he or she remembered, and what
 >he or she had actually seen.


Thanks Kevin!

That's way more that I could dig up.

Best wishes

- Larry








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                        Italian UFO Newsflash No. 368

From: Edoardo Russo <edoardo.russo@libero.it>
Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 12:11:59 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 10:31:28 -0400
Subject: Italian UFO Newsflash No. 368


ITALIAN UFO NEWSFLASH

ISSUE NO. 368 - 25 SEPTEMBER 2002

by the Italian Center for UFO Studies
(Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici, CISU)

Contents:

- "Flap" Over Northern Italy
- New Issue of the European UFO Journal
- Back In Newsstands: Bongiovanni's UFO magazine
- Alexander Kazantsev Dies


"FLAP" OVER NORTHERN ITALY

We have got a new "flap" of sightings to report, this one
taking place over various regions of Northern Italy, at two
separate times on the evening of Friday the 20th and on the
morning of Saturday the 21st, in this month of September.

The Italian Center for UFO Studies has gathered numerous
testimonies from Piedmont, Liguria, Lombardy, Emilia-Romagna
and Marche, all of these highly coinciding in their description of
the phenomenon: a roughly triangular object with the point facing
down, or otherwise oblong in shape, which reflected the sun=92s light
and appeared to be stationary or move very slowly, while
remaining visible for dozens of minutes.

The reports of Friday came from the Lower Piedmont, Liguria and
Lombardy, between 6 pm and 9 pm. Those of Saturday occurred
over Romagna and Marche from 7:30 am until towards 9:30 am;
these proved to be more sensational, involving air pilots in
flight and airport personnel on the ground. On both the 20th and
the 21st, various witnesses succeeded at photographing or
filming the object at various locations.

The testimonial data corroborated with investigations by the
CISU, which led to the identification of the object with a huge
stratospheric balloon (350,000 cu. m.) launched for scientific
purposes on the previous evening from the well-known launching
facility of CNES at Aire-sur-Adour, in France, by the European
Space Agency. Instead of exploding after the disengagement of
its useful load (a French CNR spectrometric instrumentation for
detecting atmospheric aerosols), the balloon escaped control
  and, being still filled with gas, it was propelled by the high-
altitude air currents over Provence, then over Northern Italy to
an altitude of more than 25,000 meters. Thereafter, it descended
in altitude during the overnight hours and flew over the
Adriatic and the former Yugoslavia the following morning, before
finally coming down to earth on the night of Saturday the 21st,
in Romania.

This type of launch has often resulted, over the years, in
similar "flaps" involving tens or hundreds of UFO sightings over
Northern Italy, almost always during the autumn months, going
back to 1954: among the more sensational ones, there were those
(all occurring in September) of 1966, 1970, 1979 and 1985 (the
last notably involving aerial pursuit and the filming of
sequences by RAI-TV over Aosta).

[Ansa, 21 September; La Stampa, Alessandria edition, 21
September; La Nazione, Spezia edition, 21 September; La Stampa,
Savona edition, 22 September; Il Resto del Carlino, Romagna and
Le Marche editions, 22 September; UFO-Italia, 21-24 September;
Chucara2000, 21-23 September; actual witness testimony provided
to the CISU; collaboration by Renzo Cabassi, Roberto Labanti,
Matteo Leone, Gildo Person=E8 and Paolo Toselli]


NEW ISSUE OF THE EUROPEAN UFO JOURNAL

The new issue (the seventh in the series) has arrived of the
"European Journal of UFO and Abduction Studies", published
by Totton College in England for the purpose of providing a
common tool to ufology of scientific guidance on the old continent.

Among the articles by English, Spanish, Romanian and USA authors
which passed referees' control (making this publication somewhat
unique) there are: search engines on the Internet and ufology;
the new petition to the United Nations; a debate on
"hypercivility and the extraterrestrial hypothesis"; the
analysis of a sighting in Daghestan; and still more questions
concerning Roswell.

Meanwhile, the 2003 Membership Campaign has begun. Discounts are
available for subscribers to the CISU and to other affiliate
associations.

[UFO-Italia, 19 September; www.cisu.org/ejufoas.htm.]


BACK IN NEWSSTANDS: BONGIOVANNI'S UFO MAGAZINE

Following a silence of some months leading to speculation about
the umpteenth folding of a UFO publication, the UFO magazine of
contactee and visionnaire Giorgio Bongiovanni has returned to
newsstands: "UFO - La visita extraterrestre" ("UFO: the
  Extraterrestrial Visit").

In this issue: a photo service covering the most recent crop-
circles in English corn fields over this past summer; some UFO
reports from Campania and Sardinia; news from abroad; messages
from the cosmos, and a bit of "new age" mystery fodder. It
totals 36 pages in color, sells for 4 Euro, and places the
magazine midway in ranking between "Ufo Notiziario" by Roberto
Pinotti and "Stargate Magazine" from Maurizio Baiata.


ALEXANDER KAZANTSEV DIES

Writer Aleksandr Kazantsev, one of the fathers of "space
archaeology", has died in Moscow at the age of 96.

Army officer, engineering graduate, teacher and author of ten or
so science-fiction novels, and decorated recipient of various
Soviet medals, Kazantsev gained fame the world over in 1959,
when the Western mass media disseminated his theory (advanced in
a 1946 novel of his) that the devastating explosion which rocked
the Siberian region of Tunguska in 1908, rather than being the
result of a meteorite or a comet, was instead caused by the
nuclear explosion of an extraterrestrial spacecraft.

[Itar-Tass, 14 September; Televideo RAI and Il Nuovo, 14
September; La Provincia Pavese and other Italian dailies, 15
September; UFO-Italia, 16 September; collaboration by Antonio
Rampulla and Gildo Person=E8]


Collaborators on this edition were:
Renzo Cabassi, Roberto Labanti, Matteo Leone,
Gildo Person=E8, Antonio Rampulla and Paolo Toselli.


- - -

This is the English translation of UFOTEL, a free phone/Internet
information service on UFOs edited weekly by Edoardo Russo for
the Italian Center for UFO Studies (Centro Italiano Studi
Ufologici), available in Italian by calling +39-011-545294, or
by e-mail subscription, or on CISU website at:

http://www.arpnet.it/ufo/ultime.htm

UFOTEL is a supplement to "UFO - Rivista di informazione
ufologica", published by the Italian Center for UFO Studies,
registered at Tribunale
di Torino, No. 3670, on 19 June 1986.
Director: Giovanni Settimo.
Publisher: Cooperativa UPIAR, Corso Vittorio
Emanuele 108, 10121 Turin, Italy

Translated from Italian to English by:
Gary J. Presto, Freelance IT-EN Translator/Proofreader
1123 Revere Beach Pky., # 12
Revere, MA 02151 USA
Tel.: ++ 1.781.485.1683, Fax: ++ 1.781.485.1684
ICQ: 110502923, E-mail: gjpresto@mediaone.net
Webpage: http://profiles.yahoo.com/italoman9

- - -

(c) 2002 by: CISU,
Corso Vittorio Emanuele 108, 10121 Torino, Italia

This newsletter (as a whole or in part) may be freely copied,
photocopied, reproduced, stored, distributed and retrieved, at
the only condition that Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici is
reported as the source.

You may get it directly via e-mail by subscribing (just send a
blank message to: cisuflash-subscribe@yahoogroups.com)

The CISU is a no-profit association whose aims are:
- to promote the scientific study of UFO phenomena in Italy;
- to help circulate information about UFO phenomena and studies;
- to coordinate national activities of data collecting and studying.

You may reach Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici:
- by mail: CISU, Corso Vittorio Emanuele 108, 10121 Torino, Italia
- by phone: +39 (011) 30.78.63 (24 hours UFO Hotline)
- by fax: +39 (011) 54.50.33
- by Internet e-mail: cisu@ufo.it
- at the World Wide Web URL: http://www.cisu.org







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   Oct > Oct 4

                          New 'In Search Of' Series

From: Loren Coleman <lcolema1@maine.rr.com>
Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 06:30:25 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 10:45:27 -0400
Subject: New 'In Search Of' Series


 From the desk of Loren Coleman.....

A reminder that the Sci Fi Channel begins broadcast of the 'In
Search Of' series on October 4th, 2002 - redesigned in a
magazine format - and hosted by The X-Files' Mitch 'Skinner'
Pileggi.

Here's what I have learned about their schedule.

The program is set for Fridays, 10 PM and Midnight, Eastern USA
time, but, of course, check your local cable listings for exact
broadcast times and repeats.

The following topics are the subjects per program, thus far, so
please watch:

http://www.lorencoleman.com

for updates:

2002
Oct   4 - Hell/Vampires/Tesla's Inventions/Lake Monsters
Oct. 11 - Witchcraft/Alien Abductions/Man-Eating Creatures/Ghosts
Oct. 18 - Werewolves/Mummies/Reincarnation
Oct. 25 - Ghost/Stigmata/Zombies

(The following episodes are set to air in November 2002  but
actual order is unknown):

Catacomb/Bigfoot/Rennes Le Chateau
Haunted Houses/Doomsday Scenarios
Star-Crossed Lovers/Demonic Possession/Robots
The Shroud Of Turin/Alien Intelligence


Enjoy

Loren Coleman
http://www.lorencoleman.com








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                       Re: Kanazawa - Ballester Olmos

From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos@yahoo.es>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 14:31:53 +0200 (CEST)
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 10:56:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Kanazawa - Ballester Olmos


 >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 16:08:46 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Kanazawa

 >>From: Erol Erkmen <eerkmen@tuvpo.com>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 14:58:32 +0300
 >>Subject: Re: Kanazawa

 >>>One of my all-time favorite videos is the one from Kanazawa,
 >>>Japan, around 1989 or so.

 >><snip>

 >>Jim,

 >>Where can I find the Kanazawa video?

 >I honestly don't know. I'm sure others here do, however. I have
 >a grainy, multi-generation copy, which probably would not
 >reproduce well.


Time and location of the event, please? Any references to
mainstream UFO journals?


Thanks

V-J








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                         'It Came from Outer Space'

From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 14:22:37 UT
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 10:58:25 -0400
Subject: 'It Came from Outer Space'


It Came From Outer Space
An Article in the November issue of Astronomy magazine

OK, not Panspermia yet, but getting closer.

I highly recommend this article to all Skywatchers and
Ufologists.

Insights from this article.....

"Recent observational evidence supports the theory that the
chemical stew necessary for the development of earthly life was
imported from space"

"Today, the list of chemicals detected in space ranges from the
amino acid glycine up to complex polycyclic aromatic
hydrocarbons (PAHs) similar to those found in coal or heavy
petroleum."

A wealth of organic compounds have been found in meteorites
which include the amino acids, the very important nucleic acids
and other biologically important compounds such as ketones,
carboxylic acids, amines, amides, and quinones. In 2001
researchers fleshed out the list with sugars and pyridine
dicarboxylic acids which are also critical to biomolecules.

With new findings that bacteria may exist on Mars and in the
atmosphere of the planet Venus, the prospects for other rocky
planets giving birth to biological organisms has increased and
the case for ETI grows stronger.

The one mysterious leap that needs explanation is the evolution
of intelligence in living organisms. When we adhere to the
materialist explanation it seems difficult to account for the
emergence of intelligence, but if we presume that intelligence
already pre-existed, then the mystery resolves. By pre-existent
is meant that intelligence transcends a material system and is
the morphogenetic source of material systems. Currently, such
speculation is considered to be outside of science.

What these findings mean is that the Hypothesis that some UFOs
are someone else's spacecraft grows more probable as our
knowledge increases thus it is a viable hypothesis with
confirming evidence. To confirm this hypothesis in the
scientific world will engender a huge leap in Astrobiology and a
major paradigm shift in the academic world.

We may yet see this happen within our lifetimes.

Sincerely,


Bill Hamilton
Executive Director
Skywatch International, Inc.
Website:
http://www.skywatch-research.org
Fiat Lux et Veritas








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                          Secrecy News -- 10/04/02

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 10:30:55 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 11:01:49 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 10/04/02


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2002, Issue No. 98
October 4, 2002


**      INTELLIGENCE REFORM LANGUISHES
**      ASTEROID IMPACT COULD HAVE LED TO NUCLEAR WAR
**      CIVILIAN SATELLITE VULNERABILITY
**      PENTAGON DEFENDS POLICY ON ENEMY COMBATANTS
**      BRAZIL SEEKS DECLASSIFIED US DOCUMENTS


INTELLIGENCE REFORM LANGUISHES

"While there has been a plethora of recommendations for
[intelligence] reform over the years, many of the most far-
reaching proposals have not been acted on to any significant
degree," said Eleanor Hill, staff director of the congressional
joint inquiry into September 11.

That is an understatement.

Ms. Hill's latest testimony cites over a dozen official
commissions that considered intelligence reform in the last
several years alone. Her October 3 testimony, with embedded
links to the reports of each of those commissions, may be found
here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2002_hr/100302hill.html

The remainder of the hearing on intelligence reform was less
than inspiring, with a selection of witnesses -- all former
officials -- that reflects the intelligence committees' narrow
field of vision. With due respect to former FBI and CIA director
William Webster, for example, he is an unlikely guide to the
future of intelligence. Prepared testimony from the latest joint
inquiry hearing may be found here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2002_hr/index.html#joint7


ASTEROID IMPACT COULD HAVE LED TO NUCLEAR WAR

An asteroid that entered the earth's atmosphere last June with a
burst of energy could have triggered a nuclear war, according to
congressional testimony yesterday from Air Force Brig. Gen.
Simon P. Worden.

"Two and a half months ago, Pakistan and India were at full
alert and poised for a large-scale war, which both sides
appeared ready to escalate into nuclear war," Worden recalled.
"The situation has defused for now. Most of the world knew about
this situation and watched and worried."

"But few know of an event over the Mediterranean on June 6th of
this year that could have had a serious bearing on that outcome.
U.S. early warning satellites detected a flash that indicated an
energy release comparable to the Hiroshima burst. We see about
30 such bursts per year, but this one was one of the largest we
have ever seen. The event was caused by the impact of a small
asteroid, probably about 5-10 meters in diameter, on the earth's
atmosphere."

"The event of this June received little or no notice as far as
we can tell. However, if it had occurred at the same latitude
just a few hours earlier, the result on human affairs might have
been much worse. Imagine that the bright flash accompanied by a
damaging shock wave had occurred over India or Pakistan. To our
knowledge, neither of those nations have the sophisticated
sensors that can determine the difference between a natural NEO
[near-Earth object] impact and a nuclear detonation. The
resulting panic in the nuclear-armed and hair-triggered opposing
forces could have been the spark that ignited a nuclear horror
we have avoided for over a half century."

Worden's remarkable testimony was delivered at an October 3
House Science Subcommittee hearing on the threat posed by
asteroid and other near-Earth objects. See his prepared
statement here:

http://www.house.gov/science/hearings/space02/oct03/worden.htm

The iconoclastic Gen. Worden came to public attention earlier
this year as director of the Pentagon's aborted Office of
Strategic Influence.


CIVILIAN SATELLITE VULNERABILITY

"Because vulnerability issues are often ignored in the design of
civilian satellites, those systems may be especially tempting
targets," observed former CIA analyst Allen Thomson in a
prescient 1995 opinion article:

http://www.fas.org/spp/eprint/civilsat.htm

Years later, this concern is starting to grow.

Besides natural hazards due to the space environment, "satellite
systems are vulnerable to many forms of intentional human
attacks that are intended to destroy ground stations and
satellites or interfere with... data links," according to a
General Accounting Office report published this week.

The new report provides a comprehensive introduction to the
nature and scope of the problem, along with policy
recommendations.

See "Critical Infrastructure Protection: Commercial Satellite
Security Should Be More Fully Addressed," GAO report GAO-02-781,
August 2002:

http://www.fas.org/spp/military/gao/gao02781.pdf


PENTAGON DEFENDS POLICY ON ENEMY COMBATANTS

In a lawyerly response to continuing criticism of its policy on
designating and incarcerating American citizens (Padilla and
Hamdi) as "enemy combatants" with minimal judicial review and
without access to legal representation, the Pentagon insisted
that its position was fully justified by law.

"There is no due process or any other legal basis, under either
domestic or international law, that entitles enemy combatants to
legal counsel," wrote Defense Department General Counsel William
J. Haynes II.

See his October 2 letter here:

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Oct2002/b10022002_bt497-02.html

The letter was written in response to an August 8 task force
report issued by the American Bar Association which recommended,
among other things, that "citizen detainees should not be denied
access to counsel." See the ABA report here:

http://www.abanet.org/leadership/enemy_combatants.pdf


BRAZIL SEEKS DECLASSIFIED US DOCUMENTS

The human rights committee of the Brazilian Chamber of Deputies
is requesting that the United States provide declassified U.S.
government documents regarding Brazil during the military regime
of 1964-1985.

The request was inspired by the recent State Department
declassification of documents concerning Argentina's "dirty
war."

"As in Argentina, we can clarify cases of political
disappearances in our country and also learn more about the
participation of the United States in this sad period,"
Brazilian Deputy Orlando Fantazzini told the newspaper Gazeta
Mercantil on October 1.

The declassification request was provided to the US Ambassador
in Brazil on September 30 for transmission to Washington.

_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
  secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

Secrecy News is archived at:
  http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web: www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email: saftergood@fas.org
voice: (202) 454-4691








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                        Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Gutierez

From: Gregory Gutierez <greguti@free.fr>
Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 14:34:48 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 11:05:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Gutierez


 >From: Gregory Gutierez <greguti@free.fr>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 23:59:23 +0200
 >Subject: Re: Symbols [UMMO]

Sorry I made a mistake in my last mail:

 >Compared to other "langages" (as the Helen Smith case studied
 >by Theodor Flournoy), the datas (1500 letters, something like
 >200 occurences of the Ummit "words" and lots of Ummit symbols)
 >are strong enough to pretend to do an analysis of it.

It is not 1500 letters but 1500 pages known, mainly in spanish,
some in french and few in other langages. Each letter is between
2 and 40 pages.

I write "1500 pages known", because we know that some ufologists
received letters and put it directly in their trash can, so
these letters are now lost.

For example, Jacques Vallee notes in one of his books that he
received letters... stamped with 10$ !

Some french ufologists received letters too, like the well-known
Ren=E9 Fou=E9r=E9, leader of the french GEPA (a private association
not to be overcome with Poher's GEPAN).

In the letters itself, it is said that "they" try to communicate
by letters with numerous people in several countries, but almost
every time the letter is considered as a bad joke. The only one
who took it seriously was Fernando Sesma in 1966 This spanish
author claimed to have lots of contacts with other civilisations
so he wasn't surprised when he received his first ummit letter
:)

One last point:

 >The art of Pena is comparable to the art of Jorge Luis
 >Borges or Izaac Azimov for example (I regret that very few
 >letters have been translated in english. You can easily read
 >it as an anticipation novel cut in letters like a puzzle, a
 >kind of game with the reader).

Of course I do not consider that Pena is as a good author as
Borges or Azimov. I wanted to express that, IMHO, his hoax is a
master-piece in the world of hoaxes, and a very exciting piece
of science-fiction or crank litterature or what ever you want.

I would be more appropriate to compare his work (lets pretend he
is actually the real guy, this is not a hundred percent sure for
me) with the one of the famous french author Leo Taxil who
fooled some many christians in the 19th century with the alleged
papers of a retired free-mason mistress who revealed the nasty
satanic meetings of this society. Even the Vatican was fooled by
Taxil at the time.


Regards,

Gregory Gutierez
Paris, France







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                              White Sands Proof

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 10:54:43 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 11:08:09 -0400
Subject: White Sands Proof


It has been in front of our noses for years, but was neatly
covered up by a famous scientist way back in 1951. However, it
is now on line for everyone to see. The actual photos/films were
(conveniently?) lost years ago.

However, a single document exists which pokes holes in the Air
Force claim that UFOs do not represent something "unearthly." We
had nothing that could fly at an altitude of about 30 miles in
1950. So, whenever a government representative pooh-poohs UFOs,
ask him/her, what about the White Sands film?

New rallying cry: Remember the Sands!

http://brumac.8k.com

Click on 'White Sands Proof'!








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                  Re: Falsified and Fabricated Data - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 23:58:56 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 10:26:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Falsified and Fabricated Data - Hatch


 >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 09:47:43 EDT
 >Subject: Re: Falsified and Fabricated Data

 >>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren@pacbell.net>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 08:52:41 -0700
 >>Subject: Re: Falsified and Fabricated Data

 >>>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >>>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 13:03:20 -0700
 >>>Subject: Re: Falsified and Fabricated Data

 >>>>From: Gregory Gutierez <greguti@free.fr>
 >>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto (<ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>>Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 20:54:15 +0200
 >>>>Subject: Re: Falsified and Fabricated Data

 >>>>>- What was the exact surface of the remains found?

<snip>

 >>>>Please excuse my English, sometimes I lack the right words.

 >>>>With my question "What was the exact surface of the remains?" I
 >>>>wanted to ask: what were the length and width of the territory
 >>>>covered by the debris? The size of it is an important point in
 >>>>order to find what exactly crashed that day near Roswell.

 >>>Ahh! The surface area! I understand it was quite large, spread
 >>>all over the place. It could have been something like an acre,
 >>>but Stanton Friedman probably has the best answer for that.

 >>>Sorry for the misunderstanding.

 >>Hello Gregg & Larry & All,

 >>Since Stan is on the road, I'll offer the information; "Weighing
 >>heavily against the scattered wreckage being any sort of balloon
 >>was its condition; pieces were spread out of and area more then
 >>250,000 square feet ('200 yards in diameter')

 >>-Page 82, "Crash At Corona."

 >Good Morning, Frank, List, All -

 >There really is no one answer for this question (just as there
 >seems to be no one answer for many of the Roswell related
 >questions).

 >Jesse Marcel, Sr. said there area was about three-quarters of a
 >mile by two or three hundred yards...

 >Bill Brazel described a large area with a gouge about five
 >hundred feet long and about ten feet at its widest (which, if
 >accurate, rules out a balloon, period)...

 >General Exon suggested a large area that was easily visible from
 >the air...

 >Bessie Brazel suggested a small area, meaning that she, her
 >brother and her father cleaned it all up and put it all into
 >four burlap bags that they stored under the front porch...

 >The Roswell Daily Record reported that the area was only 200
 >yards in diameter...

 >Bud Payne seemed to confirm the size as related by Bill Brazel,
 >but mentioned no gouge (much the pity)...

 >Walt Whitmore, Jr. suggested he had seen the area after the Army
 >clean up and said he found a stretch of about 175 to 200 yards
 >that had been up-rooted in a fan-like pattern (I should probably
 >point out that Whitmore's story changed radically over the years
 >until he insisted that he saw the remains of a weather balloon
 >and even gathered some samples, which he was never able to
 >produce)...

 >Sheridan Cavitt (after telling me repeatedly that he hadn't been
 >there, hadn't gone out to the site, had never participated in
 >the retrievel of a balloon) said the area was small...

 >So, there really is no one answer and the problem might be when
 >a specific person was there, what he or she remembered, and what
 >he or she had actually seen.


Thanks Kevin!

That's way more that I could dig up.

Best wishes

- Larry








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                           Re: Kanazawa - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 11:10:13 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 17:34:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Kanazawa - Maccabee


 >From: Erol Erkmen <eerkmen@tuvpo.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 14:58:32 +0300
 >Subject: Re: Kanazawa

<snip>

 >Jim,

 >Where can I find the Kanazawa video?

I seacrhed the web for "Kanazawa UFO" and found an number of
sites, most of which have nothing to do with the sighting of
interest here.

One indicates that the video was shown by Connie Chung on CBS.

Another:

http://www.xdream.freeserve.co.uk/UFOBase/Diamond.htm

shows a very poor quality image from one frame.








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                           Re: Kanazawa - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 11:10:09 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 17:38:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Kanazawa - Maccabee


 >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 18:14:04 -0700
 >Subject: Kanazawa

 >Dr. Bruce, and List.....

 >One of my all-time favorite videos is the one from Kanazawa,
 >Japan, around 1989 or so.

 >I was at Marge Christenson's house when Richard Haines viewed it
 >for the first time, and he actually raised an eyebrow and said
 >"Wow.", which for Dick Haines is the equivalent of jumping up and
 >down and screaming.

 >Bruce, I know you did an article for IUR comparing the Kanazawa
 >video to one shot in Hawaii - I think - but that's the last I
 >heard of it. Has anything developed on this fascinating footage
 >since then?

Thanks for mentioning the Kanazawa video. A complete report on
the Kanazawa (Hamazaki) video and it comparison to the
Hawaii (Lindstrom) photos is in IUR May/June 1990.

About a year and a half later I was made aware of another
photographic sighting in which the object resembled that of
Lindstrom and Hamazaki. That sighting was in Medjugorjue,
Yugoslavia. The analysis of that photo is in IUR March/April
1992.

Note: if you find the March April 1992 issue and look at page 13
you will see the Hawaii and Medjurgorje photos side by side.
Unfortunately, they printed the Lindstrom photo upside down!

Since you have brought these up I may go back into my dusty
archive and see if I can find material to post. These are all
color pictures and, of course, the color did not come out in the
IUR B&W reproductions.

I met Yasuhiro Hamazaki and his wife when I was in Hakui City in
November 1990 for the first International UFO symposium in
Hakui, Japan.

Hakui is 30(?) miles from Kanazawa. Kanazawa is a city
of half-a-million I was told. Hakui is a nearby west coast
(of Japan!) town.








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                  Re: Efforts Put Aztec On The Map - Sandow

From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 11:31:55 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 17:41:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Efforts Put Aztec On The Map - Sandow


 >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 01:24:03 EDT
 >Subject: Re: Efforts Put Aztec On The Map


 >Hi Greg & List,

 >I do agree with you on Aztec and from what I have seen its part
 >of the Silas Newton hoax.

 >That being said, prior to 1980 Roswell was also considered a
 >giant non event, nothing, weather balloon.

Aztec has been investigated, though, by Dennis Stacy for one.
There just aren't people in the town who remember any UFO event.
Roswell makes a great contrast - there it was easy to find
people who remembered. And of course there had also been big
headlines at the time in the local paper. In Aztec, by contrast,
there's no trace of anything.

There's a sad and unintentionally funny book on the Aztec crash
by William Steinman - hundreds of pages long, earnestly trying
to prove that something happened. But with zero result. The big
difference, again, between Aztec and Roswell is witnesses - the
Roswell case has them, Aztec doesn't.


Greg Sandow








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                            Re: Symbols - Speiser

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 08:59:50 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 17:43:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Symbols - Speiser


 >From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 09:42:45 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Symbols

 >>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 19:35:40 -0700
 >>Subject: Re: Symbols

 >>>From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com>
 >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Subject: Re: Symbols
 >>>Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 15:32:32 -0400

 ><snip>

 >>>We don't know what we're dealing with here, after all. One
 >>>possibility is that they're all made up - consciously or
 >>>unconsciously - by the people who report them. Or they might all
 >>>be truly alien. Or some might be alien and some made up. Since
 >>>we don't know, I'm in favor, the more I think of it, of not
 >>>excluding anything at all. We might learn as much from the
 >>>hoaxes as we do from symbols we might have some reason to
 >>>believe might be truly alien.

 >>Greg, you took the words right out of my mouth. This would
 >>basically amount to a single-blind study, and if nothing else,
 >>would be an interesting way to test the archetypal images
 >>theory. If there _is_ anything to these exoglyphs, it would be
 >>interesting to see if these high-powered linguists mentioned
 >>here are able to make any distinctions based solely on content
 >>without knowing the source.

 ><snip>

 >Let me get this straight...

 >Someone is trying to study symbols self-claimed abductees have
 >produced from unconfirmed encounters with aliens and/or other
 >beings of unknown origins without _first_ attempting to
 >distinguish seemingly genuine abduction claims from claims that
 >may have been made up?

 >And further, these symbols are now being called "exoglyphs" even
 >though no one knows which ones may be from unearthly sources and
 >which ones originate from the minds of deluded humans nor do
 >they seem to care?

Oh, come on now, you're ruining our fun!

I think what's being proposed is that the symbols be studied
both collectively and then after parsing out the ones deemed to
be from hoaxes, in the hopes of providing some sort of insight
or check on our ability to make such distinctions, and to see if
perhaps there isn't some kind of archetypal "imprint" inherent
in all of the symbols, and perhaps in all abduction cases.

As to "exoglyphs," I admit the term is a bit presumptive, but
then so is the term "alien abductions" - doubly so, since we
don't know for certain that anyone's being abducted, and we
don't know if aliens are involved. I defend the term "exoglyphs"
merely based on its expediency and on the knowledge that others
here know that it's meaning is tentative.


==JJS==








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                   Re: New 'In Search Of' Series - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 13:14:40 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 17:46:44 -0400
Subject: Re:  New 'In Search Of' Series - Kaeser


 >From: Loren Coleman <lcolema1@maine.rr.com>
 >To: <ISO@lorencoleman.com>
 >Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 06:30:25 -0400
 >Subject: New 'In Search Of' Series

 >From the desk of Loren Coleman.....

 >A reminder that the Sci Fi Channel begins broadcast of the 'In
 >Search Of' series on October 4th, 2002 - re-designed in a
 >magazine format - and hosted by The X-Files' Mitch 'Skinner'
 >Pileggi.

<snip>

Hi Loren

Is there any connection to the original Producer of the show
(Alan Landsman, I believe)?


Steve







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                           Re: Kanazawa - Yturria

From: Santiago Yturria <syturria@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 14:09:35 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 17:51:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Kanazawa - Yturria


Hi Everyone,

I have a third-generation VHS copy of the UFO video-taped by Mr.
Kanazanna in Japan, July 6, 1988 but I don't know if it's the
same one you are referring to. This is a famous UFO video of 9
mins. long and I was wondering if maybe the name was mistaken:
Kanazawa instead of Kanazanna.

Interestingly one year after in Tokyo July 5 another couple
taped another world famous UFO sighting of a 'transparent'
romboid-shaped UFO at daylight. The footage was broadcast the
next day on national TV in Japan and on July 10 in the US by CBS
TV News.

I got both copies from Dave Aaron of the UFO Audio-Video
Clearinghouse in Yucaipa, Ca. If you are interested in contacting
him here are his address and phone number:

P.O. Box 342,
Yucaipa,
California
92399-0342

Phone: 714-795-3361

Unfortunately I heard Dave is suffering healt problems, so he
needs our support.

Santiago Yturria






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                     Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Gonzalez Manso

From: Luis R. Gonzalez Manso <lrgm@arrakis.es>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 20:26:12 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 17:57:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Gonzalez Manso


 >From: Gregory Gutierez <greguti@free.fr>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 23:59:23 +0200
 >Subject: Re: Symbols [UMMO]

 >So here is my statement about Ummo: I am quite sceptical about
 >the alleged alien origin of all these letters, BUT

<snip>

Sorry Gregory, you just pretend to be sceptical in one sentence,
and betrayed yourself by adding that famous alibi; "But".
Followed by several paragraphs expounding why you are not as
sceptical as you pretend.

Yes. You are right. Mr. Pe=F1a is not in absolutely clear in his
confession... that is the reason why we arrived to the
conclusion that UMMO was a hoax _without_ him. Only after his
hoax was throughly demolished did he offer some kind of
confession, obscure enough to keep the ball going!

Please, I have made a line-by-line examination of the very first
UMMO letter demonstrating that it was absolute nonsense. If they
commited so many flagrant errors in their very first
communication, I can only follow their advice; "Do not believe
us". What an easy mantra to convince some people to believe in
them!

 >But even if Pena is actually the man behind the letters, we have
 >here the biggest hoax of ufology in the 20th century

Let me quote myself (from MAGONIA):


"Let me finally present the UMMO affair, summed up in its
appropiate dimensions: Duration: a little more of a year (from
February 1966 to July 1967), plus another outburst at the
begining of 1969. From then onwards, never more than occasional
contacts. Space: limited to Spain, despite the headings of some
documents suggesting translations to languages as inexistent as
"slav-czech". Volume: Around 1000 known pages corresponding to
150 different shipments, even though they themselves said to
have prepared "more than 6700 reports"!. Contents: A third of
the known material (330 pages) is just pure gossip, 269 pages
refered to various philosophical considerations, around 178
pages gave some raw data (usually impossible to verify) and only
144 pages contained valuable information, already
commented.Quality: The papers never offered nothing really
novel. For example, the cosmological theories could be derived
from the works of Eddington and other material easily obtained
in scientific journals of the time (like Nature and
Science&Vie). Without a doubt the author was familiar with
foreign material (the ummites made references to the works of
Halton Arp (sic), and also extracted from books by Martin
Gardner The Ambidextrous Universe and Asimov The Noble Gases).
But with the hindsight of the 27 years passed, the contents look
very na=EFve, and the real mystery is why so many people had
believed in them for so long."

[end of quote]


When Ribera revealed some UMMO papers to the world in a famous
FSR article (among others) the show for copycat hoaxers was
open. We already knew about of some of them ( a group of
Argentinian ufologists who tried -successfully- to discover if
they could imitate the "inimitable" UMMO language). But nobody
can take seriously any UMMO documents from the middle 70s
onwards... neither the ones before.

To me, it could be described as a precedent of the crop circles.
Somebody had the idea and then came the copycats...

 >The allusion of "government investigators" may refer to Claude
 >Poher, future leader of the governmental agency GEPAN (the
 >ancestor of our current SEPRA). Claude Poher tried to find in
 >the police records a trace of a complaint about a power device
 >robbery, in the French Alps in 1950.

 >Well... Poher actualy _did_ find the complaint in the police
 >records!

 >He even did find the owners of the farm in which the robbery
 >took place in 1950. We were in 1972 and they were now living in
 >the Cote d'Azur, a rich and picturesque region of France. They
 >claimed they had had lot of money thanks to the heritage from a
 >very distant relative in USA who died few years earlier

Sorry, Gregory. This is just gossip. Poher never said so.

 >I would be more appropriate to compare his work (lets pretend he
 >is actually the real guy, this is not a hundred percent sure for
 >me) with the one of the famous french author Leo Taxil who
 >fooled some many christians in the 19th century with the alleged
 >papers of a retired free-mason mistress who revealed the nasty
 >satanic meetings of this society. Even the Vatican was fooled by
 >Taxil at the time.

Sorry, Gregory. Mr. Pe=F1a did _not_ fooled any serious ufologists
in Spain (and before you say, Mr. Ribera was _not_ a serious
ufologist, just a writer who almost never did a UFO
investigation in-field).

If anybody is interested you can order for our special issue (in
Spanish) about UMMO in CUADERNOS DE UFOLOGIA (2=AA =C9poca) n=BA 16-
  17 (1994) to the following address:

http://www.anomalia.org


Yours,

Luis R. Gonzalez Manso








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                   Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Peterborough

From: Kelly Peterborough <kellymcg@attcanada.ca>
Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 15:21:55 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 18:02:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Peterborough


 >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 23:39:55 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs

 >>From: Kelly Peterborough <kellymcg@attcanada.ca>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 18:40:07 -0400
 >>Subject: Flight-Paths Of UFOs

 >>I'm way behind on my e-mails (about 400) due to computer
 >>troubles so apologies if I haven't responded to any e-mails.
 >>I have a question though that I was hoping this august group
 >>could answer.

 >>I just read on another List that it has been 'verified'
 >>(no sources cited) [no surprise -LH] that the 'majority'
 >>(no percentage given) [no surprise -LH] of UFOs flight-paths
 >>take a North to South or South to North direction.

 >>My dear Larry H., is this something you have kept track
 >>of in your database? Anybody else have any comments?
 >>And if the above is true, any speculation as to why?

 >Hello Kelly:

 >My sincere empathy on the computer problems. My system went
 >belly up recently, the internal power supply went off like 4th
 >of July fireworks.

Yes, and it amazes me that a system can die yet e-mail lives! I
mean, I didn't lose any e-mails, much to my despair when they
all downloaded. I was kinda hoping they would disappear too, but
e-mail seems to be like a mighty virus that nothing can kill.
But where, oh where, would I be without it! Probably out getting
exercise or something ridiculous like that.

 >It would be nice to know what List this 'verified' North-South
 >biz was published on, maybe you could copy the message here?

Alas, I have deleted it, but it should still be in the List's
archives. Mike Mott posted it on his 'fantasticreality' Yahoo
Groups List when someone questioned something about the hollow
earth theory. He was the one who said the above about the flight
patterns of UFOs, which I gather hollow-earthers believe means
that UFOs are from the inside of the earth and enter and exit
via the holes in the North and South Poles, thus the North-
South, South-North patterns, comprende vous? Sumtin like that.

I didn't ask Mike what his source was - thought I'd rather hear
from you because of your database. But if you and Errol don't
mind, I'd like to post this to his List.

What I find interesting about this question of UFO direction -
  and maybe somebody here can answer this too - is that if, as
your data shows, there are virtually equal numbers of sightings
in all directions, can this rule out some false airplane
sightings? That's not a very clear question, is it?

Let me try again......

For some reason, I tend to think that the majority of airplane
flights are in the East-West/West-East direction, not North-
  South, South-North. But that's probably because when I fly I
tend to fly in those directions. But wouldn't it be interesting
to find out, worldwide, what the flight-paths of airplanes were
and then superimpose that over UFO flight-paths? Maybe if there
was a discrepancy between the two it might be worth
investigating, if someone hasn't already done so.

 >Did anyone ask the pertinent questions of the expert who came up
 >with those assertions? I.e. who or what verified those findings?
 >What are the actual numbers....?

Nope - sorry. Mike isn't really a UFO person but I will ask him
now.

 >I guess it couldn't have been the *U* UFO Database. There is
 >indeed a routine looking for just that info, the very last item
 >on the Statistics Menu called Trajectory Counts.

 >I just ran it off for the entire database, it took maybe 15
 >seconds. Out of some 17,879 listings, 5256 of those indicate
 >some direction of travel.

<snip>

Thanks for all your work Larry! Very interesting!

Kelly








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                 Re: Large Object Falls In Siberia - Tonnies

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 14:25:28 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 18:44:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Large Object Falls In Siberia - Tonnies


 >From: Kelly Peterborough <kellymcg@attcanada.ca>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 22:08:30 -0400
 >Subject: Large Object Falls In Siberia

 >Source: Russian Gazette

 >http://www.gazeta.ru/intnews.shtml?204713#204713

 >Large celestial object falls to earth in Siberia

<snip>

How close is this to Tunguska? It's interesting that space
debris might be "attracted" to Siberia.



=====
Mac Tonnies (macbot@yahoo.com)

Transcelestial Ontology and Postmillennial Studies
http://mactonnies.com








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                             Re: Kanazawa - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 21:25:05 +0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 18:46:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Kanazawa - Hall


 >From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos@yahoo.es>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 14:31:53 +0200 (CEST)
 >Subject: Re: Kanazawa

 >>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 16:08:46 -0700
 >>Subject: Re: Kanazawa

 >>>From: Erol Erkmen <eerkmen@tuvpo.com>
 >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 14:58:32 +0300
 >>>Subject: Re: Kanazawa

 >>>>One of my all-time favorite videos is the one from Kanazawa,
 >>>>Japan, around 1989 or so.

 >>>Jim,

 >>>Where can I find the Kanazawa video?

 >>I honestly don't know. I'm sure others here do, however. I have
 >>a grainy, multi-generation copy, which probably would not
 >>reproduce well.

 >Time and location of the event, please? Any references to
 >mainstream UFO journals?


Vicente-Juan,

See The UFO Evidence, Volume II, pp. 297-98.


  - Dick







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                   Re: New 'In Search Of' Series - Coleman

From: Loren Coleman <lcolema1@maine.rr.com>
Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 18:59:25 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 19:17:22 -0400
Subject: Re: New 'In Search Of' Series - Coleman


 >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 13:14:40 -0400
 >Subject: Re: New 'In Search Of' Series

 >>From: Loren Coleman <lcolema1@maine.rr.com>
 >>To: <ISO@lorencoleman.com>
 >>Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 06:30:25 -0400
 >>Subject: New 'In Search Of' Series

 >>From the desk of Loren Coleman.....

 >>A reminder that the Sci Fi Channel begins broadcast of the 'In
 >>Search Of' series on October 4th, 2002 - re-designed in a
 >>magazine format - and hosted by The X-Files' Mitch 'Skinner'
 >>Pileggi.

 ><snip>

 >Hi Loren

 >Is there any connection to the original Producer of the show
 >(Alan Landsman, I believe)?

When Haxan of Florida was in charge of production, I was the
Senior Series Consultant, Greg Hale was the Executive
Produce/Director, and Alan Landsburg was brought in as a
Producer, I believe.

When Haxan and the series parted ways, the programs had been
finished, I was long gone as a consultant, and I don't know what
happened politically.

But a few months later, the series was reborn with Kaos of
California as the production company and Alan Landsburg on board
as the Executive Producer. Haxan had formatted the programs as
in-depth hour-long discussions of one subject, as was the model
of the original half-hour programs. Kaos re-did the programs as
one hour "magazine format" shows with four subject per episode.


Loren








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                    'Fox in Focus! UFOs: Proof of Life?'

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 07:34:14 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 07:34:14 -0400
Subject: 'Fox in Focus! UFOs: Proof of Life?'

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,64678,00.html

Friday, October 04, 2002


Fox in Focus! UFOs: Proof of Life?

Saturday October 5 at 11 p.m. ET and Sunday, October 6 at 4 a.m. ET
Hosted by Rick Folbaum

 From the first moment we looked up at the stars, we've wondered
if there is life beyond our planet. Over the years, an entire
sub-culture has grown up to study the phenomena - They call
themselves "Ufologists" and Fox in Focus examines their most
compelling stories and tapes from around the world. From the
convincing to the bizarre, UFOs: Proof of Life? reveals both the
science and the fiction behind the headlines.

For those of you who would like to go even further beyond the
headlines here's some additional information about one of the
people featured in our special:

Pamela Stonebrooke claims to have had a sexual relationship with
an extra-terrestrial. Her story is that one night, she woke up
and found herself making love to a gorgeous man. This man, then
transformed into a reptilian being. Stonebrooke, aka the
"Intergalactic Diva" is now a professional singer in the Los
Angeles area and has written a book about her alien encounters.
The book is called: Experiencer: A Jazz Singer's True Account
of Extraterrestrial Contact.

You can also find out more at Ms. Stonebrooke's Web site:
http://www.intergalacticdiva.com/








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                        Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Gutierez

From: Gregory Gutierez <greguti@free.fr>
Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 02:18:36 +0200
Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 07:37:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Gutierez


 >From: Luis R. Gonzalez Manso <lrgm@arrakis.es>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: Symbols [UMMO]
 >Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 20:26:12 +0200

About the power supply stole in a french village in 1950,
accounted in one of the first Ummo letter in 1966 and for which
a complaint was later found by Claude Poher in 1972:

This information is widely spread among people interested by the
case, supporters or debunkers, as a curious piece of
accreditation of one letter.

The last citation of this information (without any scepticism)
is by Gildas Bourdais in his article on the UFOCOM website (he
mentionned it few days ago on the list).

French readers have access to a quite long and critical
commentary of this article by Jean Pollion:

http://ummo.free.fr/pollion1.htm

Gildas Bourdais obviously forgot to mention this piece.

If Luis R. Gonzalez Manso or Jerome Clark have sources showing
this information is false, I'll be glad to have it.

Regards,

Gregory Gutierez
Paris, France
http://www.liste-aleph.org
French Mailing List for Fortean Weirdos







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                       Re: Rudiak vs. Moore - Fleming

From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com>
Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 19:51:21 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 07:55:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Rudiak vs. Moore - Fleming


 >From: Bruce Hutchinson <bhutch@grassyhill.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 19:12:58 -500
 >Subject: Rudiak vs. Moore

 >Dear Listerians, Dave Rudiak, and Readers;

 >(Tim Printy, who did the lion's share of research and writing up
 >the work cited below, is not a member of this List. As I had a
 >small hand in putting the essay together, Tim asked me to write
 >up this announcement.)

 >A few weeks ago, David Rudiak published on his web site the
 >results of his investigation into Prof Charles Moore's
 >evaluation of NYU Flight #4, and especially Moore's contention
 >that what Mac Brazel found, and Major Jessie Marcel brought back
 >to the Roswell AAFB, was probably the remains of this balloon
 >train and its radar reflectors. Rudiak's study focused on a
 >chart of wind data published in the book co-authored by Moore
 >("UFO Crash at Roswell; The Genesis of a Modern Myth") and a
 >flight path plot Moore developed from this table.

<snip>

Hmm. Printy claims that the wind velocity table:

TIME    MPH
=====   ===
83.4    38
95.5    20
125.5   17
166.8   14


should really be interpreted as:

TIME    MPH
====    ===
83.4
         20
95.5
         17
125.5
         14
166.8

The velocities would apply for the elapsed time between two
successive time entries according to Printy's interpretation.
  But what happened to the velocity entry (38 mph) for the first
time in his example, 83.4 minutes after launch? Well, it would
have to apply to the elapsed time from whatever the immediately
preceding time entry was up to 83.4 minutes after launch. But
what about the entry for time = 0? If there was one, it would
just have to be thrown away,

I haven't seen the actual table Moore used, but unless there is
some explicit statement to the contrary, any engineer would
automatically assume these are measured or estimated values of
velocity at the corresponding times stated, and the velocity for
the time period between two consecutive entries would be the
average velocity for the two entries. It actually may be more
complicated than that since the wind directions also have to be
taken into consideration, but the conditions would still be
interpolated between consecutive entries.  If there _is_ a
velocity entry for time = 0, then Rudiak was correct. If not,
then Printy would probably be correct. But given the information
provided so far, it appears that Rudiak's interpretation is
thoroughly conventional while Printy's interpretation is, um,
novel.








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                       Mystery Death Spawns Odd Tales

From: Kelly Peterborough <kellymcg@attcanada.ca>
Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 20:57:49 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 08:01:53 -0400
Subject: Mystery Death Spawns Odd Tales


Source: The Press Enterprise - Bloomsburg, Pennsylvania

http://www.pressenterpriseonline.com/cgi-bin/liveique.acgi$rec=3D24339?front=
page3


Press Enterprise
Friday, October 4, 2002

Mystery death spawns odd tales

By PETER KENDRON
Press Enterprise Writer

NORTHUMBERLAND -- The unexplained death of a man near here has
become fodder for UFO enthusiasts, who have made it into a tale
of alien attack and spread it around the world via the Internet.

The bizarre interest in the death of Todd Sees has aggravated
investigators trying to determine the cause of his death, who
also worry the tales will deepen the anguish the Sees family is
feeling.

Sees, 39, a Little League coach and father of two, was found
dead in the woods near here in August.

The anonymous Internet postings blame his death on a UFO.

Officials dismiss the stories as ridiculous. But they don't yet
know how or why he died, and they have no way of preventing
story-tellers from filling that vacuum with speculation.

Searchers found the body of Sees about 150 yards from his
Northumberland home along Route 147 in a heavily wooded area
Aug. 5.

He had taken out his all-terrain vehicle the day before,
planning to track deer. After a 30-hour search by more than 250
people, his family found his body.

An autopsy the next day failed to establish a cause of death,
said Northumberland County Coroner James Kelley.

A toxicology report, which could detect the presence of drugs,
poisons or other substances at the microscopic level, is
expected by mid-October, he said.

But even before August was over, some Web sites began featuring
anonymous tales that Sees had died in an encounter with
extraterrestrials.

Here's what they say:

A farmer who did not give his name said he saw a round disk over
Montour Ridge. It moved quickly, stopped and shot a light to the
ground. The farmer then saw a man being pulled up the light head
first into the bottom of the craft.

Seconds later, the disk flew away.

When searchers found the man's body, some of these anonymous
reports say, it was partially clothed and had a look of horror
on its face.

Some claim federal agents soon showed up to take over the
investigation and didn't let the family see Sees' emaciated
body.

'Ridiculous'

"They're so ridiculous and far-fetched," said the investigating
officer, Sgt. Seth Cotner of the Point Township Police.

Cotner said he's seen a number of the Internet stories, and his
department has taken "several" calls from UFO organizations.

None of the reports he has read was accurate, Cotner said. No
police report on Sees' death has yet been issued.

Cotner said police "all certainly hope" the toxicology report
will clear up the mystery of Sees' death.

There are no federal agencies involved in the investigation, he
added.

Linda Vizi, a spokeswoman for the FBI, said she had not heard of
the case. "But I know that Congress does not mandate us to
investigate UFOs," Vizi said.

'Very traumatic'

Kelley, the coroner, said he saw the body, and the Internet
reports he had read were inaccurate.

He said he couldn't go into the details, since the case is still
under investigation.

The family had been asked not to open the casket when they
received Sees' remains, he said.

"Letting them see it would have been very traumatic for them,"
Kelley said.

Todd Sees' family declined comment through relative Traci Sees.

The naked eye examination of the body during the autopsy turned
up no evidence of trauma, heart attack or any other obvious
cause of death, Kelley said.

"We're still following every possible avenue," he said,
including the possibility of a snakebite or bee sting. But there
was no visible sign of either of those, he said.

UFO groups have contacted Kelley looking for information. But
since the investigation is still under way, he said he cannot
get into details.

"Everyone's entitled to their own beliefs, I guess," Kelley said
about the groups. "I just hope that nothing the family sees adds
to what they're already going through."

'I want the facts out'

To Peter Davenport, it's not about belief, it's about facts.
Davenport is director of the National UFO Reporting Center, the
Web site on which the first Sees reports appeared.

"I want the facts out," Davenport said.

He was not comfortable saying there was UFO involvement in Todd
Sees' death. More facts must be gathered, he said.

Davenport said he became interested in the case when he received
the first report of a UFO sighting Aug. 18, before he knew Sees
had died.

He said in that anonymous report someone stated that a farmer
and three fishermen had seen a flying disk.

It wasn't until the end of the month, when another person said
they had seen a person drawn up into the disk, that Davenport
said he got interested.

He said he spoke briefly with Kelley and Point Township police,
but they stopped returning his calls.

Davenport's site, at www.nuforc.org/index.html, posts five to 25
reports of UFO sightings per day, he said.

Those that make it to the site are only those that "warrant
attention," he said.

Davenport said he screens out those that are obvious hoaxes.

To link to UFO reports from Davenport's site, go to:
http://www.nuforc.org/webreports.html

Peter Kendron's beat covers northern Columbia County and
Bloomsburg University. Call him at 387-1234, ext.
1312, or e-mail him at pete.k@pe-online.com.

=A9Press Enterprise, Inc.









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                           134 UFO Books For Sale

From: Loren Coleman <lcolema1@maine.rr.com>
Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 23:47:34 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 08:09:44 -0400
Subject: 134 UFO Books For Sale


By order of The UFO Research Library Board Of Directors - all
UFO books and materials will be liquidated by December 1, 2002

Please see website for bidding information

http://www.recycledradio.com/ufo.htm


EMAIL:
rradio@mindspring.com


Thank - you and please forward to others.

Greg Raymond
Antiquarian

-----

Books listed at:

http://www.recycledradio.com/booksell.htm









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                           Re: Kanazawa - Speiser

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 23:01:44 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 08:11:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Kanazawa - Speiser


 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 11:10:09 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Kanazawa

 >>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 18:14:04 -0700
 >>Subject: Kanazawa

 >>Dr. Bruce, and List.....

 >>One of my all-time favorite videos is the one from Kanazawa,
 >>Japan, around 1989 or so.

 >Thanks for mentioning the Kanazawa video. A complete report on
 >the Kanazawa (Hamazaki) video and it comparison to the
 >Hawaii (Lindstrom) photos is in IUR May/June 1990.

 >About a year and a half later I was made aware of another
 >photographic sighting in which the object resembled that of
 >Lindstrom and Hamazaki. That sighting was in Medjugorjue,
 >Yugoslavia. The analysis of that photo is in IUR March/April
 >1992.


Did that sighting take place during the Medjugorje "phenomenon",
the Fatima-like visions that were said to take place there?

==JJS==








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                      Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 00:24:46 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 08:14:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Hatch


 >From: Kelly Peterborough <kellymcg@attcanada.ca>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 15:21:55 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs

 >>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 23:39:55 -0700
 >>Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs

 >>>From: Kelly Peterborough <kellymcg@attcanada.ca>
 >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 18:40:07 -0400
 >>>Subject: Flight-Paths Of UFOs

 >>>I'm way behind on my e-mails (about 400) due to computer
 >>>troubles so apologies if I haven't responded to any e-mails.

<snip>

 >>>I just read on another List that it has been 'verified'
 >>>(no sources cited) [no surprise -LH] that the 'majority'
 >>>(no percentage given) [no surprise -LH] of UFOs flight-paths
 >>>take a North to South or South to North direction.

 >>>My dear Larry H., is this something you have kept track
 >>>of in your database? Anybody else have any comments?

 >>>And if the above is true, any speculation as to why?

 >>Hello Kelly:

<snip>

 >>It would be nice to know what List this 'verified' North-South
 >>biz was published on, maybe you could copy the message here?

 >Alas, I have deleted it, but it should still be in the List's
 >archives.

It should still be in your "trash" (Netscape) or "Recycled"
(Explorer) folder. I don't know about other email readers.

 >Mike Mott posted it on his 'fantasticreality' Yahoo
 >Groups List when someone questioned something about the hollow
 >earth theory.

The name says it.

 >He was the one who said the above about the flight
 >patterns of UFOs, which I gather hollow-earthers believe means
 >that UFOs are from the inside of the earth and enter and exit
 >via the holes in the North and South Poles, thus the North-
 >South, South-North patterns, comprende vous? Sumtin like that.

I got it. Airhead city. Instant statistics, manufactured to
bolster preposterous claims in the absence of any real study.

 >I didn't ask Mike what his source was - thought I'd rather hear
 >from you because of your database. But if you and Errol don't
 >mind, I'd like to post this to his List.

I don't mind at all! I will pop a nice cold Grolshe beer [or
twelve] in eager anticipation.

 >What I find interesting about this question of UFO direction -
 >and maybe somebody here can answer this too - is that if, as
 >your data shows, there are virtually equal numbers of sightings
 >in all directions, can this rule out some false airplane
 >sightings? That's not a very clear question, is it?

 >Let me try again......

 >For some reason, I tend to think that the majority of airplane
 >flights are in the East-West/West-East direction, not North-
 >South, South-North. But that's probably because when I fly I
 >tend to fly in those directions. But wouldn't it be interesting
 >to find out, worldwide, what the flight-paths of airplanes were
 >and then superimpose that over UFO flight-paths? Maybe if there
 >was a discrepancy between the two it might be worth
 >investigating, if someone hasn't already done so.

OK, I think I understand. Maybe you are thinking of the USA or
North America mainly. If so, I would bet without even checking,
that many many more seat-miles are flown East - West than North
- South here. That would obtain obtain simply from the shape of
the USA, Canadian population distribution, and the placement of
the major N.A. population centers.

Something like that, but less so, might obtain in Europe.

Flights _between_ Europe and N. America would be the opposite,
since they are nearly polar in many cases.

 >>Did anyone ask the pertinent questions of the expert
 >>who came up with those assertions? Who or what
 >>verified those findings? What are the actual numbers?

We should not allow the airheads free rein to slop around
assertions like the hollow Earth, N-S trajectories in support of
H.E. etc. Pin them down. Make them prove it. To do otherwise is
to act as an enabler.

 >Nope - sorry. Mike isn't really a UFO person but I will
 >ask him now.

 >>I guess it couldn't have been the *U* UFO Database. There is
 >>indeed a routine looking for just that info, the very last item
 >>on the Statistics Menu called Trajectory Counts.

 >>I just ran it off for the entire database, it took maybe 15
 >>seconds. Out of some 17,879 listings, 5256 of those indicate
 >>some direction of travel.

 ><snip>

 >Thanks for all your work Larry! Very interesting!

 >Kelly

Best wishes

- Larry Hatch







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                  Re: Large Object Falls In Siberia - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 00:38:09 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 08:18:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Large Object Falls In Siberia - Hatch


 >From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 14:25:28 -0700 (PDT)
 >Subject: Re: Large Object Falls In Siberia

 >>From: Kelly Peterborough <kellymcg@attcanada.ca>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 22:08:30 -0400
 >>Subject: Large Object Falls In Siberia

 >>Source: Russian Gazette

 >>http://www.gazeta.ru/intnews.shtml?204713#204713

 >>Large celestial object falls to earth in Siberia

 ><snip>

 >How close is this to Tunguska? It's interesting that space
 >debris might be "attracted" to Siberia.

 >=====
 >Mac Tonnies (macbot@yahoo.com)

 >Transcelestial Ontology and Postmillennial Studies
 >http://mactonnies.com

The location in the Russian article is given as Bodaibo,
Urkutzk, (siberia) Russia. Bodaibo is some small place, I could
not locate it quickly, but it doesn't matter really.

Irkutsk Oblast is centered at 160 Degrees East, by 56 Dgrs North
per the Getty Gazetteer online.

As close as I could place it, Tunguska (North of Vanavara) is
around 102:15 E by 61:11 N.

That's something like four time zones apart East and West, and
300 nautical miles difference in Latitude North and South. All
figures approximate, of course.

Given that Siberia is the second largest land mass on Earth, it
would be amazing if it didn't get its share or meteors etc.,
especially over the span of a century.


Best!

- Larry








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                         Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 03:23:36 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 08:20:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Hatch


 >From: Gregory Gutierez <greguti@free.fr>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 23:59:23 +0200
 >Subject: Re: Symbols [UMMO]

 >>From: Luis R. Gonzalez Manso <lrgm@arrakis.es>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 20:07:54 +0200
 >>Subject: Re: Symbols [UMMO]

 >>Please, no. Not again.

 >Hi all, hi Luis,

 >>Is it really impossible to close, _once and for all_, anything
 >>in Ufology?!

 >>UMMO was a _hoax_.

 >>No doubt about it (at least among any serious researcher).

 >>I can refer anybody interested to my article in Magonia #47
 >>or in the Spanish Cuadernos de Ufologia.


Hello Luis and Gregory:

Forgive me for jumping in here, but I must simply say that I
agree with Luis completely.

For me UMMO is another word for HOAX, perhaps spelled in Pena's
mythical Ummite language.

I am so thoroughly convinced of this, most especially after
Pena's (admittedly partial) confessions, that I moved one of the
"UFO Sightings" which resulted from that operation onto this
selective page of Discredited UFO Sightings:

http://www.larryhatch.net/DISCRED.html

The listings there are not for cases which might be arguable
(Roswell, Rendlesham etc.) but for sightings which have been
trashed to my thorough satisfaction.

I was a bit appalled recently, to learn that I missed an UMMO
case! I immediately removed it from the *U* UFO Database and
stuck in onto the page above.

I have only one little bit to add, my own opinion of course.
With regard to the electrical device matter:

 >"The Ummites allegedly effected a landing near a village in the
 >French Alps on April 24, 1950. The crew lived in a cave for a
 >time, venturing out once to an isolated house in the middle of
 >the night. There, after anesthetizing the owners, their
 >children, and their three employees, they stole a number of
 >items. Government investigators found neither the cave nor the
 >police records that would have verified the story."

 >In the letter in which this adventure is depicted, it is said
 >that "they" stole, among other usual objects, the power supply
 >device of the farm (a quite eccentric object to steal with no
 >value at all in black market). 2 years laters, reads the letter,
 >the Ummites sent a lot of cash to the owners of the farm in
 >repayment for the burglary (they didn't understand what was the
 >concept of money at the time).

 >The allusion of "government investigators" may refer to Claude
 >Poher, future leader of the governmental agency GEPAN (the
 >ancestor of our current SEPRA). Claude Poher tried to find in
 >the police records a trace of a complaint about a power device
 >robbery, in the French Alps in 1950.

 >Well... Poher actualy _did_ find the complaint in the police
 >records!

 >He even did find the owners of the farm in which the robbery
 >took place in 1950. We were in 1972 and they were now living in
 >the Cote d'Azur, a rich and picturesque region of France. They
 >claimed they had had lot of money thanks to the heritage from a
 >very distant relative in USA who died few years earlier. (p.66
 >of the book by Jean Pollion, also accounted in the books by
 >Jean-Pierre Petit and some other sources)

 >Maybe Pena is such a perfectionist that in 1950, 15 years before
 >he begun to send Ummit letters to some spanish ufologists, he
 >stole a power supply in a tiny little village of the French
 >Alps. We live in such a strange world... :)

 >Thanks a lot for your time everyone, and excuse my sometimes
 >poor english,


All poor English is totally forgiven! You should see my
Francaise!

As regards the electrical device, I had the impression it was a
simple electrical meter, the kind used to settle accounts with
the utility company.

Regardless, the device was indeed stolen, and somehow Pena found
out about it.

The mechanism I suspect is so simple, I hesitate to suggest it,
but here goes!

Pena, and intelligent and clever fellow, stumbles across (or
actively seeks out) a story so obscure, that nobody would ever
suspect he knew it. It has to have a technical twist to it..

Aha! A stolen electrical meter (or whatever) in some small
remote village!

With this "jewel" in his possession, he builds an entire myth
around it. Pena includes just enough clues, so that diligent
investigators will _also_ find the very same police records for
the same small Swiss village.

Voila! Instant verification, manna from Heaven for the UMMO
believers! "How could Pena have known about this?"

Heck. If I can come up with a plan like that, surely a more
clever and devious fellow like Senor Pena can do no less.

We Americans have been known to take bits of gold and fire them
them into old mines with a shotgun. Instant gold mines!

Pena was clearly more subtle, I consider him an artist. A "con
artist" yes, but nevertheless an artist. His UMMO myth was so
detailed and compelling, I can see why some people are reluctant
to give it up, even now.

Maybe he could have written some good science fiction. In a way,
he did.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch








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                           Re: Kanazawa - Speiser

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 23:25:33 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 08:24:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Kanazawa - Speiser


 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 11:10:09 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Kanazawa

 >>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 18:14:04 -0700
 >>Subject: Kanazawa

 >>Dr. Bruce, and List.....

 >>One of my all-time favorite videos is the one from Kanazawa,
 >>Japan, around 1989 or so.

<snip>

 >Since you have brought these up I may go back into my dusty
 >archive and see if I can find material to post. These are all
 >color pictures and, of course, the color did not come out in the
 >IUR B&W reproductions.


Another question: To your knowledge, has there ever been a
skeptical analysis of the K video? Has anyone proposed an
earthly explanation with any semblance of credibility? Of course
we can never rule out a hoax (your cursed Maccabee's Law again)
but, could it be a kite?

I once showed the K video to a couple of scoffers, who
immediately harrumphed that videos were unreliable as evidence,
due to the burgeoning CG technology; I pointed out to them that
the video was shot at a time (1988) when the absolute state-of-
the-art in CG had not yet perfected "motion blurring," which was
quite evident and quite natural-looking in the K video. I don't
remember what they harrumphed after that. Do you concur with
that assessment?


==JJS==








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                       Cynthia Hind's Research Files?

From: Roy Hale <roy.hale@ntlworld.com>
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 14:04:58 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 09:32:49 -0400
Subject: Cynthia Hind's Research Files?


Hi All,

It has been a couple of years now since Ufology lost one of it's
great researchers, Cynthia Hind.

I had the pleasure of talking to Cynthia (via e-mail) a few
months before she passed away, which obviously shocked myself
and colleagues of mine.

The question I ask is the following:

Where has the years of data and research by Cynthia Hind been
stored?

Are they open to any access by other UFO researchers?

Is there an Archive of Cynthia Hind's research, and her
newsletter. The reason I pose these questions is simple.

Cynthia carried out a lot of research over the years she was
alive, and some fascinating cases were investigated by her, and
it would seem a shame that such work and data would go
unrecognised.

Any help on this would be appreciated.


Best,

Roy..


Roy Hale is Web Master of
The Lost Haven http://www.thelosthaven.co.uk
And Editor of: Down To Earth Magazine.







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                           Re: Kanazawa - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 10:09:36 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 13:39:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Kanazawa - Maccabee


 >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: Kanazawa
 >Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 23:01:44 -0700

 >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 11:10:09 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: Kanazawa

<snip>

 >>About a year and a half later I was made aware of another
 >>photographic sighting in which the object resembled that of
 >>Yugoslavia. The analysis of that photo is in IUR March/April
 >>1992.

 >Did that sighting take place during the Medjugorje "phenomenon",
 >the Fatima-like visions that were said to take place there?

It is my recollection that it occurred after the peak of
"luminous phenomena activity" that occurred in the middle toi
late 80's. However, I think incidents were recurring at a low
frequency, so it may have been during the time of the
'phenomenon'.








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                           Re: Kanazawa - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 10:15:40 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 13:42:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Kanazawa - Maccabee


 >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 23:25:33 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Kanazawa

 >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 11:10:09 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: Kanazawa

 >>>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
 >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 18:14:04 -0700
 >>>Subject: Kanazawa

 >>>Dr. Bruce, and List.....

 >>>One of my all-time favorite videos is the one from Kanazawa,
 >>>Japan, around 1989 or so.

<snip>

 >>Since you have brought these up I may go back into my dusty
 >>archive and see if I can find material to post. These are all
 >>color pictures and, of course, the color did not come out in the
 >>IUR B&W reproductions.


 >Another question: To your knowledge, has there ever been a
 >skeptical analysis of the K video? Has anyone proposed an
 >earthly explanation with any semblance of credibility? Of course
 >we can never rule out a hoax (your cursed Maccabee's Law again)
 >but, could it be a kite?

 >I once showed the K video to a couple of scoffers, who
 >immediately harrumphed that videos were unreliable as evidence,
 >due to the burgeoning CG technology; I pointed out to them that
 >the video was shot at a time (1988) when the absolute state-of-
 >the-art in CG had not yet perfected "motion blurring," which was
 >quite evident and quite natural-looking in the K video. I don't
 >remember what they harrumphed after that. Do you concur with
 >hat assessment?

If a kite, of a CG, then would have been a hoax. The witness and
wife and kids all claimed to have seen it and that is crossed
the sky (large angle variation in sighting direction).  You can
read the article, if you have it (I don't have an electronic
version to post) and read the story of the sighting.

I pondered the possibility that, at its closest and brightest,
the odd-shape (like the Lindstrom photo) was a result of a
slightly out of focus glint off some bright object creating a
diamond shape characteristic of the lens aperture. However, this
is questionable because the object had size and the bright part
seems to wrap partly around a darker center.

In all my glint tests the out of focus glint was a complete
diamond shape... and a lot brighter than the sky (glint off a
curved metal surface... a metal dish... in my experiments).








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              Greenwood's Union Catalog Of Serial UFO Articles

From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 11:46:0 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 13:53:35 -0400
Subject: Greenwood's Union Catalog Of Serial UFO Articles


Greetings All

The Sign Historical Group would like to announce that Barry
Greenwood's Union Catalog of Serial UFO Articles has been
updated, and is available for viewing online or download at:

http://www.project1947.com/shg/bgbib.htm

Barry's catalog now contains 7,335 entries.

Special thanks to Barry and Loy Pressley for their continuing
efforts to maintain and update this catalog.

If you know of articles from mainline or specialized non-UFO
publications which are not listed in Greenwood's catalog, please
let us know.

Thank you.


Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
SHG Vice Chairman
http://www.project1947.com/
P. O. Box 391
Canterbury, CT 06331
(860) 546-9135






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                        Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Gutierez

From: Gregory Gutierez <greguti@free.fr>
Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 17:49:05 +0200
Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 15:26:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Gutierez


 >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 03:23:36 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Symbols [UMMO]


 >Pena, and intelligent and clever fellow, stumbles across (or
 >actively seeks out) a story so obscure, that nobody would ever
 >suspect he knew it. It has to have a technical twist to it..
 >Aha! A stolen electrical meter (or whatever) in some small
 >remote village! With this "jewel" in his possession, he builds
 >an entire myth around it. Pena includes just enough clues, so
 >that diligent investigators will _also_ find the very same
 >police records for the same small Swiss village. Voila! Instant
 >verification, manna from Heaven for the UMMO believers! "How
 >could Pena have known about this?"

Hi Larry,

To be completely honest, I must say I suspect the same scenario
myself. This is why I stated that Pena hoax is a real master-
piece.

But (yes Luis, sorry, one "but" again!) I find it hard to
swallow that Pena did this and did also a complex langage, that
he spread inside the letters for few years, and that after it,
beginning in the 70s, other people made new letters (inspired by
Pena hoax) with the same "secret" construction of an alien
langage in it. This induce, at least, that the followers of Pena
were teached this method by Pena himself.

I'd like to have a complete biography of this Jordan Pena, I
would know better the life and works of this guy!

I clearly understand that my supposition is based on the fact
that the Pollion study is correct. Maybe he is totally wrong,
playing with ummo gibberish like others with the Cydonia face on
Mars.

Well, I guess the unique way of knowing it would be that I try
to explain the 'Pollion Method' with some simple examples taken
from some letters. Without questionning the final reality of the
letters, I think an explanation of this new work (July 2002)
would be quite an original and interesting piece for every
ufologist, sociologist, folklore specialist or just the usual
fortean gentleman passionate by the weirdness of the human kind.

Is anyone interested here? I cleary feel that Ummo is not very
welcome on this List and I wouldn't spend my time trying to
explain it in English if people don't have any interest in this
topic.

By the way, about the letters, here is a summary of the numbers
of known letters attributed to Ummits, by year:

1966 44 LETTERS *********
1967 16 LETTERS ***
1968 09 LETTERS **
1969 15 LETTERS ***
1970 07 LETTERS **
1971 03 LETTERS *
1972 02 LETTERS *
1973 09 LETTERS **
1974 02 LETTERS *
1976 02 LETTERS *
1979 02 LETTERS *
1980 02 LETTERS *
1981 01 LETTERS *
1987 02 LETTERS *
1988 12 LETTERS **
1990 01 LETTERS *
1991 01 LETTERS *
1992 01 LETTERS *

Consider this as just a work in progress, taking into account
just the letters from which we have the dates. Several other
documents/letters are still waiting to be "classified" by the
French team of the Ummo-Sciences mailing-list

http://ummo.free.fr


Regards,

Gregory Gutierez
Paris, France
http://www.liste-aleph.org
French mailing list for fortean weirdos







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                   Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Peterborough

From: Kelly Peterborough <kellymcg@attcanada.ca>
Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 12:09:06 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 15:30:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Peterborough


 >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 00:24:46 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs

 >>From: Kelly Peterborough <kellymcg@attcanada.ca>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 15:21:55 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs

 >>>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 23:39:55 -0700
 >>>Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs

 >>>>From: Kelly Peterborough <kellymcg@attcanada.ca>
 >>>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>>Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 18:40:07 -0400
 >>>>Subject: Flight-Paths Of UFOs

<snip>

I wrote:

 >>I didn't ask Mike what his source was - thought I'd rather hear
 >>from you because of your database. But if you and Errol don't
 >>mind, I'd like to post this to his List.

Larry wrote:

 >I don't mind at all! I will pop a nice cold Grolshe beer [or
 >twelve] in eager anticipation.

Well, Larry, crack a cold one or ten! I just might join you!
Here's Mike's reply:

Subject: [fantasticreality] Re: UFO Flight paths
Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 15:43:46 -0000
From: "Wm. Michael Mott" <MOTTIMORPH@EARTHLINK.NET>

--- In fantasticreality@y..., Kelly <kellymcg@a...>wrote:

 >Hi Mike et al,

 >I posted the following to UFO UpDates because Larry Hatch
 >maintains a large database of UFO sightings and I wanted his
 >opinion on the north-south direction of UFOs. Here is what he
 >had to say (he said I could post his response here, and also,
 >people might want to look at his site, very interesting):

Kelly,

The "north-south" observations were first made by Brinsley
LePoer Trench and also Raymond Bernard (I believe).

This would place the most recent of these two sources (Trench)
chronologically during the 1970s. This was one of his primary
pieces of evidence for a polar or pole-to-pole connection for
UFO flights.

Admittedly flight paths could have changed since that time,
however. I certainly haven't kept up with it.

Obviously, variations of NNE/NNW and SSE/SSW would fit within
the north-south pattern. These types of paths are apparently
still recorded often:

http://lion.nor.com.au/users/stingray/1998.htm

14.02.98 Gold Coast, QLD 0545hrs (DD)
On 14th February, at 5:45 AM, on the Gold Coast, Queensland a
large black disc shape object was sighted.. The disc shaped
object heading due north flew on a straight and level course. Its
speed was slower than a commercial aircraft but too fast for a
balloon since there was only a 10 knots breeze SSW to NNE.
----

Obviously, I by NO MEANS stated that UFOs only travel in this
pattern. This would be absurd. I've seen UFOs going in a North-
South, South-North, and East-West directions (and variations on
these). Fortunately I had others with me when these sightings
occured, and they saw the same things. But there does seem to be
a tendency to the North-South or South-North pattern. Another
example from the same web page as above:

------
6.50 pm, just happened to look over my shoulder, over the roof
of the house and saw a group of 7-8 UFO,s. They were quickly
changing position within the group as they circled in a wide
arc. They came from the North, turned West just before Grafton
City, and headed North again. They were moving very fast, and
the formation changed from horizontal to vertical during flight.
I took about a dozen photos of this first pass, with camera
speed at 15th sec, and some at 8th sec. If these come out, there
will be a short trail in the image because of the speed of the
group. As long as I get them.
-------
And:

CONTINUATION of Monday 20th:

Well, I thought they were gone. Just before going to bed, I
thought I would just have one more quick look outside. Time
9.15pm. Same group of about 12 did a pass over my house heading
North. This time I had a witness who yelled to me "Did you see
that?" I did not hear her because of being down the back yard.
But I had taken 3 photos of this group with the "Diffraction
Grating" on the f2 camera. ( The sequence of passes over Grafton
by this same group follows.

9.15 - overhead to the North.
9.30 - west of town to the South.
10.00 - overhead to the North.
10.20 - west of town to the South.
10.40 - high overhead to the North.

The passes over town were about 2 - 3,000 feet. I had taken a
total of 34 photos by the end of the night.

---
And
---

5.00 pm.
Went out skywatching while still daylight with my video camera,
you never know. Nothing seen. Continued watching until 7.30pm,
nothing seen.

Just before going to bed, outside again. 9.20 pm saw a group
high up approx. 6 - 8,000 ft. heading North in "V" formation at
speed 50% faster than any other group seen at this stage. Must
be about 5,000 Klm / hr. followed by a second group 20 seconds
later. This group on same path, lower, and usual speed.

Over the next 1 hour and 20 minutes, I saw the same group 6
times going North than South. Once coming in from the East.
They seemed to be concentrating on the North and West of
Grafton this time. No photos taken because they were not bright
enough.

------

It may be that UFOs utilize the magnetic field of the Earth, as
both a means of propulsion and stabilization. They would do
this by possibly using the Cathie Grid, which would explain a
lot of the north-south tendency (if it is there):

http://ascension2000.com/Shift-of-the-Ages/shift09.htm

Others have claimed that the flights of UFOs follow geologic
features like particular faults or mountain ranges, many or most
of which run (roughly or approximately) north-south. Paul
Devereaux deducted that the Mochras fault, running north-south,
was responsible for a number of UFO sightings when it released
pent-up gelogic strain ("earth lights"). Others jumped on this
theory and applied to the Cascade range and others.

Of course there is always the possibility that many of these
sightings are of some sort of top-secret military craft,
particularly when it comes to the polar regions.

Then again, our military jets were chasing a UFO recently over
Maryland. Didn't that one escape in a northerly direction?

Feel free to pass this reply back to Larry. I would be _very_
interested in hearing how the percentages of this break down,
and if in fact there is anything to it. If he is tracking and
logging the data, then I trust whatever he has to say on the
matter.

  --Mike










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              Re: 'Fox in Focus! UFOs: Proof of Life?' - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 13:09:30 -0300
Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 15:36:56 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Fox in Focus! UFOs: Proof of Life?' - Ledger


 >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers -
 >Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 07:34:14 -0400
 >Subject: UFO UpDate: 'Fox in Focus! UFOs: Proof of Life?'

 >Source: Foxnews.com

 >http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,64678,00.html

 >Friday, October 04, 2002

 >Fox in Focus! UFOs: Proof of Life?

 >Saturday October 5 at 11 p.m. ET and Sunday, October 6 at 4 a.m. ET
 >Hosted by Rick Folbaum

 >>From the first moment we looked up at the stars, we've wondered
 >if there is life beyond our planet. Over the years, an entire
 >sub-culture has grown up to study the phenomena - They call
 >themselves "Ufologists" and Fox in Focus examines their most
 >compelling stories and tapes from around the world. From the
 >convincing to the bizarre, UFOs: Proof of Life? reveals both the
 >science and the fiction behind the headlines.

Fellow Sub-culs,

My Oxford dictionary - which incidentally spells subculture
without a hyphen - defines said subculture as culture group
within a larger culture, often having beliefs or interests at
variance with the larger culture. Since the polls indicate that
upwards of 70% of the population have this belief - wouldn't
that then make the other 30% [the so-called sane ones] the
subculture? See you tonight on SDI.

Don Ledger








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                 Re: Mystery Death Spawns Odd Tales - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 14:43:12 -0300
Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 15:55:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Mystery Death Spawns Odd Tales - Ledger


 >From: Kelly Peterborough <kellymcg@attcanada.ca>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 20:57:49 -0400
 >Subject: Mystery Death Spawns Odd Tales

 >Source: The Press Enterprise - Bloomsburg, Pennsylvania

 >http://www.pressenterpriseonline.com/cgi-bin/liveique.acgi$rec=24339?frontpage
3

 >Press Enterprise
 >Friday, October 4, 2002

 >Mystery death spawns odd tales

 >By PETER KENDRON
 >Press Enterprise Writer

 >NORTHUMBERLAND -- The unexplained death of a man near here has
 >become fodder for UFO enthusiasts, who have made it into a tale
 >of alien attack and spread it around the world via the Internet.

Hi List,

This the press playing both sides of the street.

Most of this interest about Todd Sees was spawned by the press
releases coming out of that area from what I saw. Since we are
now to believe that Todd Sees decided to take a huge dose of
cocaine - according to Linda Moutin Howe - will this now spur
reports on the drug enforcement websites. Will the family now be
bothered by the politically correct DEA and the FBI perhaps.

Interesting


Don Ledger








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                        Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Gutierez

From: Gregory Gutierez <greguti@free.fr>
Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 19:12:37 +0200
Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 16:03:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Gutierez


 >From: Gregory Gutierez <greguti@free.fr>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 02:18:36 +0200
 >Subject: Re: Symbols [UMMO]

Hi all,

 >About the power supply stole in a french village in 1950,
 >accounted in one of the first Ummo letter in 1966 and for which
 >a complaint was later found by Claude Poher in 1972:

I've found sources about the investigation by Claude Poher for
the stealing of some usual objects, among them a power supply
(an electric meter indeed, a big box with a meter disc inside. I
thought the english term was "power supply device", sorry for
this mistake).

Few mentions of it:

- In Pollion, 2002, p.90:

The author explains that a meeting between french and spanish
ufologists interested by the Ummo case was organised in the
french southern city of Tarbes in 1973. During this meeting,
Claude Poher announced publicly the results of his
investigations in La Javie (the village in which the robbery
occured). See also p.66 for the details (the complaint found,
the owners of the farm in the Cote d'Azur, etc.)

- In the book "Ovni, Premier Bilan" by Philippe Schneyder,
Rocher editions, 1983. The chapter V was written by Antonio
Ribera himself. The results of Poher's investigations are
descried p.203.

- But the main source is here:

Report of an interview with Claude Poher in october, 22, 1997.
By Ren=E9 Voarino, p.3 of the french "Bulletin n=B09 du CEOF" (BP21
- 13170 La Gavotte, France).

This issue was published in 2000.

It seems that Poher wrote a complete report for the GEPAN at the
time (in 1973) but Jean Pollion informed me that this report
seems to be lost today. We could ask Jean-Jacques Velasco at the
SEPRA to check it.

In the end, I don't think we can call this information "pure
gossip" as you quickly stated Luis.

Claude Poher is still alive so eventually we could contact him
and ask him once again about this story.

Regards,

Gregory Gutierez
Paris, France
http://www.liste-aleph.org
French mailing list for fortean weirdos








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                     'Strange Creations' By Donna Kossy

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 11:28:06 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 16:12:38 -0400
Subject: 'Strange Creations' By Donna Kossy


I just read Strange Creations. It's not a UFO book, per se,
but it's filled with references to Heaven's Gate, ancient
astronauts, and other weird stuff.

http://mactonnies.com/ufobooks.html

--Mac


STRANGE CREATIONS Donna Kossy

"Strange Creations" is one of those rare books on fringe thought
that disturbs as well as provokes laughter. Kossy's book is a
knowledgeable and passionately researched examination of who we
are according to various occultists, racists, Creationists and
pseudoscientists. With an especially trenchant chapter on
eugenics and "racial hygiene", Strange Creations could be
Steven Jay Gould's The Mismeasure Of Man as rewritten by
Robert Anton Wilson. A must for any esoteric bookshelf.


=====
Mac Tonnies (macbot@yahoo.com)

Transcelestial Ontology and Postmillennial Studies
http://mactonnies.com








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                    Letter-to-Editor Roswell Daily Record

From: Larry W. Bryant <caus@exis.net>
Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 21:18:46 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2002 04:00:38 -0400
Subject: Letter-to-Editor Roswell Daily Record


TO: Editor, the Daily Record
P.O. Box 1897
Roswell, NM 88201

FROM: Larry W. Bryant
3518 Martha Custis Drive
Alexandria, VA 22302

DATE: October 5, 2002

In its 15-plus minutes of historical fame, the city of Roswell,
N.M., has witnessed the possible visitation of an alien
spacecraft, the federal confiscation of that craft (cum crew),
the ensuing official coverup thereof, and the eventual formation
of a UFO-related museum commemorating the event.

Unfortunately, during the course of that socio-political
spectrum, Roswellians have lost some opportunities to learn all
the truth (and consequences) about what really happened (and
why) during the first week of July 1947 in ranchland outside the
city.

Now comes perhaps only one more opportunity to set the record
straight -- by holding legally accountable those perpetrators
and perpetuators of the coverup. In the process, today's Roswell
citizenry can make their own mark on history by asking such
questions as --

-- What did certain N. M. local/state officials know (and when
did they know it) about the feds' coverup of the retrieved UFO-
E.T. artifacts?

-- What state/federal laws were broken during the retrieval
operation and coverup?

-- To what extent has the coverup deprived N. M. citizens their
rightful access to the technological trove inherent in the
confiscated artifacts?

-- To what extent has the coverup's abuse of authority and
violation of the public trust entailed any N. M. state
officials' complicity?

Acting as a Roswell Incident Truth Commission, the proposed N.
M. special grand jury to be impaneled in Chaves County via the
state's petition-drive process would solicit answers to the
above questions; analyze and report upon all available smoking-
gun evidence of the coverup; and formally invite whistleblowers
to share their insider accounts/leads/tips/deathbed
confessions/"leaked" documentation, all under the grand jury's
witness-protection charter. Presumably, the ensuing GJ report
could serve as a powerful incentive for the U. S. Congress to
hold open, subpoena-driven hearings on the entire UFO-E.T.
coverup policy, principals, and practices.

Initiating this cosmic paradigm shift will require more than the
efforts of a few committed UFO researchers. Indeed, it first
will require the emergence of a Roswell-based volunteer to
coordinate the gathering of the roughly 700 signatures from the
county's registered voters as the threshold directive for the
judge's impanelment of the sought-for grand jury. Language for
the signature petition has been formulated; funding for its
circulation/filing probably will be nominal.

If you (or someone you know and trust) feel qualified and
motivated enough to become the Roswell-based coordinator for
this people's panel, please contact me as follows: Home address:
3518 Martha Custis Drive, Alexandria, VA 22302; phone: 703-931-
3341; e-address: overtci@cavtel.net .

By boldly and altruistically stepping forward now, you'll have
added your voice to the growing public outcry for telling the
greatest story ever never told.


LARRY W. BRYANT
Director, Washington,  D. C.,  Office of
Citizens Against UFO Secrecy






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                    British Columbia Sighting - 08-13-02

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <yogibear@bulkley.net>
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 22:14:54 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2002 04:06:15 -0400
Subject: British Columbia Sighting - 08-13-02


Houston, British Columbia

Date: August 13, 2002
Time: approx: 1:05 a.m.

A Houston resident told me today that on August 13, 2002 from
her home, which is located on the slopes of Mount Harry Davis,
she was shutting everything down for the night when something
very strange caught her eye. She explained while closing her
drapes over she watched a large, glowing orange object which sat
stationary at the foot of Morice Mountain  which is across the
Valley and directly south of Houston, B.C.. From her home,
Morice Mountain is in a southerly direction. Her first thought
it may have been a small forest fire. But as she observed the
object it began to move slowly along the base of the mountain in
a easterly direction. After a couple of minutes it swung more to
the south heading up the valley, or the old Equity Mine road.
The witness said she lost sight of it as it flew behind some of
the smaller hills in that area. The witness is very credible.
She also went on to say she has never seen anything like it.

Thanks to the witness for her report.


HBCC UFO







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                    British Columbia Sighting - 08-03-02

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <yogibear@bulkley.net>
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 22:42:54 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2002 04:08:40 -0400
Subject: British Columbia Sighting - 08-03-02


Houston, British Columbia

Date: August 3, 2002 (date could have fallen between the 3rd &
       6th)
Time: approx: 11:45 p.m.

Since I am heading to visit my dad in Langley, B.C., I figured I
had better get what hair I have left cut. I sat down in the
barber shop waiting my turn, which wasn't a very long wait. The
Barber asked me how things were going, so I filled her in on a
few things about what has been going on here in the north, she
mentioned she seen my articles in the newspaper which made her
think to tell me of what her, and her husband had seen on August
3, 2002.

The couple live 2 kilometers south off Highway #16 on a road
which is called Bold Road. I use to have a small parcel of land
on the same road, so I know the area well. She went on to tell
me they had been sitting outside and her husband caught sight of
an "extremely large" white colored ball of light, which was
traveling slowly in a northerly direction coming from the Morice
Valley area. He told his wife to look quickly as he wanted her
to see the object. The witness first thought it may have been a
aircraft with landing lights on. But within a second or two he
soon ruled this out due to the size of it. Both witnesses said
it was brighter than the moon, and was approx: half the size. I
asked if they could give me a rough idea to how high this object
was, they both guessed it could have been around 4,000 or so.
They got the estimation on the altitude from looking at Morice
Mountain which is only a few miles behind their property and can
easily be seen as the mountain runs above timberline.

Both of these folks went on the say while the object was almost
straight over head from their position, it changed direction
"quickly" (a sharp turn) to an easterly direction and continued
along it's path until it was out of view due to all the trees in
the area. The whole event last approx: 20 to 25 seconds.


Thank you to the witnesses for their report.

HBCC UFO







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                    British Columbia Sighting - 07-29-02

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <yogibear@bulkley.net>
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 22:58:04 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2002 04:59:58 -0400
Subject: British Columbia Sighting - 07-29-02


Sayward, British Columbia

Date: July 29, 2002
Time: 10:50 p.m.

Witness #1 (out of 6 witnesses)

On October 3, 2002 I had a telephone call from a lady who
resides in Sayward, British Columbia. Sayward  is located on the
northeastern shore of Vancouver Island, British Columbia, Canada
and is home to about 1500 people. Sayward is about two hours
south of Port Hardy, one hour north of Campbell River and four
hours north of the provincial capital, Victoria.

She had read an article in the North Island Gazette in which the
newspaper was kind enough to place a letter to the editor in the
newspaper requesting  area residents report any strange lights
they may have seen in the area over the last while to me for
investigation. I had heard from a colleague who informed me that
a number of witnesses had reported seeing a large fireball over
Sayward on the evening of July 29, 2002. The reason why I was so
interested in hearing from these folks was due to the major
sighting which took place here (Houston, Quick, Telkwa &
Smithers, British Columbia) on July 29, 2002 as where 9
witnesses in four different communities watched a unforgettable
event. There is a connection to the Sayward, B.C. and the
sightings here on July 29, 2002.

The witness went on to tell me that there were six witnesses
that she knew who observed an unforgettable event on July 29,
2002. She said they saw something, but to this day can't figure
out what it was the all saw. Besides herself, her Mother, Aunt
and three other ladies had witnessed this strange object, they
were all within a kilometer from each other.

When it was first observed , she told me that she thought it was
a meteor, but as it travel along, she quickly changed her mind
as to what it was. The witness said after the event was over she
took to the internet to seek help in trying to find out what it
was. She found a Meteorologist in Courtney, B.C. and wrote him a
letter explaining what it was she seen and heard. The gentleman
told her that it was most likely a meteor, the witness felt like
she was getting the run around, and nothing basically came from
her request for information. What the Meteorologist suggested
she do was to provide the latitude, longitude and other
information in which the witness could not provide due to not
knowing how to go about providing this kind of information. He
asked if it would be ok to send out some questionnaires which
held some 8 or so questions for her to answer, then for her to
take the questionnaires to each of the people who saw the object
and have them answer them, which she did. After the
questionnaires were completed and collected, everyone's
information was basically the same. This witness also sat and
drew a pictures of what they saw, explaining that she did not
know how far where the whole subject on this was going to go.

This witness went to my website before contacting me, she read
the reports I wrote up on the July 29, 2002 sighting which took
place here in the Bulkley Valley and she said what these folks
seen here was exactly what she watched fly through the sky. The
only difference in all the reports is that this witness did hear
noises and went on to say the other three ladies also heard the
same sounds. She explained where she was standing, which was on
her driveway and the object was "just there" in front of her
"just" above the small mountain. I was told by this witness that
she heard the sound, which grabbed her attention. In her words
she said the sound was like that of a "screecher" (fire cracker)
which gave off a whistling. When she looked up to see what all
the noise was about, the first thing that was noted was a white
tail. She also said the object looked as it just hovered, moving
really slow. It also had a white core center, and black coloring
around the outside edges. It was also described as being covered
with fire, or an orange color all the way around it.

As this was taking place, she heard a scream from behind her
home, which was coming from her neighbors property. Her comments
to herself after hearing the screaming from the neighbors, "was
exactly" !, meaning she was glad someone else saw it. After she
lost sight of the object, a couple of minutes went by when her
Mother and Aunty came driving up in their van. The witness got
into the Van and did not want to mention what she had just saw,
but because it was such an amazing event she said to her Mother
and Aunty you wouldn't believe what I just saw. The two women
just looked at the lady and said, "did you see what we just saw"
? The witness asked her family members, you seen it as well ?
They all did. (HBCC UFO Investigators Note: I have talked to the
two witnesses who were driving the Van at the time and have
their reports as well. They will be written up separately. Some
of the witness work for the Provincial Emergency Program, so all
are very credible witness and thought they were going to have to
respond to crashed aircraft, or at least this was one of their
thoughts when they first seen the object).

I asked this lady if she could give me a rough idea how far off
the ground the object might have been, she turned and asked her
boyfriend, (who has very good credentials and would exactly know
the elevation there home was sitting at) he said their property
was sitting about 100 feet above sea level, and the witness said
the object was approximately 100 feet off the ground traveling
horizontally. Her thoughts were that the object was going to go
into the ocean. A this point she said it was "gone".

She explained that the Meteorologist who she was in contact
said, in all his days of he has never heard of a meteor making
any noise. (HBCC UFO Note: I have to wonder about the
Meteorologist's statement).

When I asked the witness about the size of this object, she said
it was "HUGE" !

I asked this witness what was the duration of the object, she
watched the object for approximately 3 to 4 seconds before she
lost sighting of it, due to the trees in her yard which blocked
her from seeing it.

There are questionnaires which were sent to all of the witnesses
to this even, and they all filled them out. I will be receiving
faxed copies of these, plus the drawings of what everyone had
witnessed also.

More to come.

Tried/frustrated & need a break.
Brian
HBCC UFO Research








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                         Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Russo

From: Edoardo Russo <edoardo.russo@tiscali.it>
Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 18:09:01 +0200
Fwd Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2002 05:02:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Russo


Ciao Luis and Gregory!

 >From: Luis R. Gonzalez Manso <lrgm@arrakis.es>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: Symbols [UMMO]
 >Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 20:26:12 +0200

 >Please, I have made a line-by-line examination of the very first
 >UMMO letter demonstrating that it was absolute nonsense. If they
 >commited so many flagrant errors in their very first
 >communication, I can only follow their advice; "Do not believe
 >us". What an easy mantra to convince some people to believe in
 >them!

Italian ufologists Roberto D'Amico and Claudio Bernacchia had
done the same analysis with the same negative results
(concluding it was a not-so-clever hoax) as early as 1971, in
the pages of the magazine "Clypeus" [1], based upon the letter
sent by the alleged Ummites from Berlin to Clypeus editor,
Gianni Settimo.

 >Sorry, Gregory. Mr. Pe=F1a did _not_ fooled any serious
 >ufologists in Spain

I can confirm that I've been  finding more-than-skeptical
statements by Spanish serious ufologists, since the very
beginning: Oscar Rey Brea who showed the internal
inconsistencies of the San Jose' de Valderas pictures in
"Stendek" magazine [2], well before the Spaulding/Poher expos=E9
in CUFOS bulletin [3]; I also remember a "Stendek" editorial by
Pere Redon (chairman of Centro de Estudios Interplanetarios,
CEI), who hinted rather clearly to Jordan Pena in the early '70s
[cannot find the precise reference at hand in my Ummo file].

Rafael Farriols and Antoni Ribera were the real promoters of the
Ummo hoax to an international status, while others have been
keeping up the cult-like myth up to the present time (in Spain,
but also in France and in Italy).

But other Spanish ufologists did publish some very critical
checks of "Ummite claims" (even going to do their homework in La
Javie, France, and showing the much-acclaimed story was wrong)
[4], even before the devastating attack published in the 1988
special issue of "Cuadernos de ufologia" and the later forced
confession of Jordan Pena, in 1992-93.

The real issue here is another, though: no UFO hoax can ever be
called a "closed case", because each and everyone of them will
live forever, once it is launched. There will always be somebody
eager to resurrect all such dead corpses, either in good or in
bad faith. As the poet said: "Cease your hopes, you who enter
here". He meant the hell's door, but it sounds like well fitting
to ufology, doesn't it?


Edoardo Russo

Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici


References

[1] Claudio Bernacchia & Roberto D'Amico, "Un caso perfetto che
non e' perfetto" [A "perfect case" not so perfect], Clypeus No.
33, march-april 1971, pp. 41-47, 53; later published in an
enlarged version as: "Gli extraterrestri di Berlino-ovest: chi
ci ha scritto dal pianeta Ummo?" [Aliens from Berlin: who wrote
us from planet Ummo?], Clypeus No. 41, july-august 1972, pp. 15-
21.

[2] Oscar Rey Brea, "Algo sobre las fotografias del supuesto
Ovni de San Jose' de Valderas", Stendek No. 9, august 1972, pp.
5-11.

[3] Claude Poher, "Remarks on Aluche, San Jose de Valderas and
the Ummo Affair - a Monstrous Hoax!", CUFOS Bulletin, spring
1977, pp. 2-7;  William Spaulding, "Computer Photographic
Analysys - San Jose de Valderas, Spain 1967", ibidem, pp. 11-13.

[4] Grupo U3, "Las mentiras de Ummo - El engano de La Javie",
Mundo desconocido No. 64, october 1981, pp. 55-73.








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                Re: Pioneer Spacecraft & Space 0ddity - Jones

From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 09:11:14 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2002 17:08:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Pioneer Spacecraft & Space 0ddity - Jones


 >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers -
 >Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 16:35:46 -0400
 >Subject: UFO UpDate: Pioneer Spacecraft & Space 0ddity


 >Source: The Independant - London

 >http://news.independent.co.uk/world/science_medical/story.jsp?story=3D3359=
01

 >Space Oddity

 >Nasa's Pioneer probes are in the grip of a baffling force. Could
 >it, asks Marcus Chown, rewrite the laws of physics?

 >23 September 2002

 >A mysterious force is tugging on Nasa's ancient Pioneer
 >spacecraft, retarding them as they streak out towards the
 >distant stars. It amounts to a mere 10-billionth of a "g" =E2=80=93
 >gravitational force. Yet it could bring the entire edifice of
 >physics tumbling down.

<snip>

Good Morning All

I booked marked this one when I first read it because I have see
this mentioned before in the UK's UFO Magazine but I could not
remember which issue. So I left replying to it until I could
check which issue it was.

------

UK UFO Magazine, January/February 1999

Page 37

Pioneer Discoveries in Outer Space

Launched on 2 March 1972, the Pioneer 10 spacecraft achieved
many "first's" in its planned long outward journey toward the
stars. It was the first to fly through the asteroid belt; the
first to send back close-up pictures of Jupiter; and the first
to fly beyond the orbit of Pluto.

The last milestone occurred in mid 1983 and still, Pioneer 10
continues its journey into the vast void of space and its
currently some 6.6 billion miles from Earth. Though NASA's
budget for tracking Pioneer 10 expired in 1997, operators of the
Lunar Prospector spacecraft recently picked up Pioneer's faint
telemetry. It is possible that the spacecraft will be able to
send back valuable data about the so-called Heliopause, the
region of space where the influence of our Sun ends and true
interstellar space begins. At its present speed, Pioneer 10 was
expected to reach the star Aldebaran in about 2 million years,
but scientists are now puzzling over the odd behaviour of
several distant spacecraft - including Pioneer 10. If their
observations are correct - and they've been re-checking them for
several years - there is something about gravity that is
different that expected.

Pioneer 10 and Pioneer 11, both launched towards the outer solar
system in the early 1970's, are behaving as if the Sun's gravity
is stronger than it should be. That is, they are slowing down.
Both were expected to have enough velocity to completely escape
the solar system and travel more or less forever into deep
space. But if things keep going as they now seem to be, the
Pioneer's will eventually fall back towards the Sun.

Other spacecraft have also shown anomalous behaviour, including
Ulysses, now in polar orbit around the Sun and Galileo, now
orbiting Jupiter.

!We've been working on this problem for several years, and we
accounted for everything we could think of.! says NASA planetary
scientist John Anderson. So far, he and other scientists have
not found any reason for the spacecraft's "weird behaviour".
They are beginning to think that it must be "extra gravity" -
  and that would send a lot of theoretical physicists back to the
drawing board.

* The journal Science (2 September 1998) revealed that the Lunar
Prospector spacecraft (currently orbiting the Moon) has sent
back data indicating the presence of billions of tons of water
ice at the moons poles. This could mean up to ten times more
available water than was
previously thought to exist - and it's right on our doorstep!


--

    In an infinite universe, infinitely anything is possible.
                         Sean Jones
               http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/







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              Dozens Saw UFO Land In Bromley, London In 1955 -

From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 11:40:20 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2002 17:11:38 -0400
Subject: Dozens Saw UFO Land In Bromley, London In 1955 -


 >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 23:35:35 +0200
 >Subject: Dozens Saw UFO Land In Bromley, London In 1955

 >The Bexleyheath area is part of Bromley in East London. I tried
 >to locate the September 4 story in the archives of
 >'thisisLocalLondon,' but didn't succeed. I'm still looking,
 >though.

 >Stig

 >***

 >Source: NEWSSHOPPER via the 'thisisLOCAL LONDON' network

 >http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/bromley/display.var.625555.index.0.html

 >September 16, 2002

 >this is LOCAL LONDON

 >'Our 1950s X-Files experience'

 >**

 >More than 47 years ago, an unidentified flying object was
 >spotted in the Bexleyheath area by several people. Now a former
 >policeman is doing research on the sightings. LINDA PIPER
 >investigates ...

<snip>

Good morning Errol, Stig, All

I have now heard back from Margaret Fry who was one of the
witness's and now a researcher of UFO's.

She has sent me a hand written five page letter about the
incident, which I will endeavour to type up over the next few
days. She has also sent me a copy of the leaflet posted through
residents doors to try and get further witness's on the
sighting.

This is a transcript of it.

----

Dear Householder

I hope you will excuse my writing to you, you may not believe in
the UFO phenomenon, or you may have an open mind, I hope so and
that you will read what I have to say before throwing this away.
The incident changed my perceptions of life and in 1964 when a
National UFO Research Organisation was founded (BUFORA) I joined
it and investigated and researched the subject ever since. I
came to Wales in 1983 and formed WFIU particulars enclosed.

Although over the years I have interviewed well over a thousand
people, the sighting I want to prove the most, is my own, my son
Steve Costello aged 8 1/2 years then and a young Indian Doctor
Thukarta who died in 1965 who saw this on the 17th July, 1955 A
young lad James Weller who has formed a group of young friends
interested in the UFO phenomenon said he would help me by
distributing this letter on your road, he precipated this with a
note of his own, you must be wondering what this is about.

Well, on the 17th July, 1955 a Sunday, mid-day there had been a
heat-wave on in the UK a week, my eldest son was ill, and Dr
Thukarta called and took me and my younger son to the Surgery at
King Harolds Way for medication; the Chemists were closed. From
the onset, something shadowed the car from my house at 12 Hythe
Avenue, the car was stalling, and stopped just before the T
junction of Ashbourne Avenue/Whitefield Avenue, where we got
out. What seemed an enormous craft was hovering just above our
heads. It just flopped down at the T Junction, therefore could
not have been more than 30ft in dia. It was absolutely still &
silent. There were about 10/12 children between 8-10 yrs.
playing hop-scotch on the pavement, they came and stood round
the craft with us, we were all totally staggered, they were
yelling it was a "flying saucer". It was a bell shaped pewter
dull grey/blue craft. After 5/6 minutes, it silently, gradually
very slowly rose until about 100ft up, it tilted and flew away
rapidly.

What I would desperately like to know is, are any of those
children still living in the area? they would be in their 50's.
Do any of them remember this? My son does vividly. We would
dearly love them to contact us please. Since becoming more
experienced I have wondered if the people in the corner house to
Ashbourne/Whitefield experienced any unusual vibrations, or
effects to electrical appliances? (there was no garage then,
only a small lean to shed).

There are TV programmes, many books & magazines, people are more
informed now about the subject, so perhaps you will realise this
is not a hoax, but a genuine desire for me to contact others,
who have shared this extraordinary, out-of-this-world experience
with my son and self. Although it is 22 years since I left, some
people on Hythe Avenue would still remember my family, my
children grew up there.

Mrs Margaret E Fry 1999







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                         Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2002 05:44:21 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2002 17:15:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Hatch


 >From: Gregory Gutierez <greguti@free.fr>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 17:49:05 +0200
 >Subject: Re: Symbols [UMMO]

 >>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 03:23:36 -0700
 >>Subject: Re: Symbols [UMMO]

<snip>

 >Is anyone interested here? I cleary feel that Ummo is not very
 >welcome on this List and I wouldn't spend my time trying to
 >explain it in English if people don't have any interest in this
 >topic.

<snip>


Hello Gregory:

I don't think discussion of Pena and his works is at all
unwelcome. There is probably much to be learned about this
highly interesting fellow. What is probably unwelcome, for many
or most of us, would be some fawning acceptance of such a
blatant long running hoax, endless arguments trying to validate
the Ummites etc.

If you uncover anything interesting about this matter, and
especially some _other_ stunts Pena pulled off, I'm sure we
would like to hear about it!

Best wishes

- Larry







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   Oct > Oct 6

              Re: 'Fox in Focus! UFOs: Proof of Life?' - Caput

From: Scott Caput <scaput@bellsouth.net>
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 10:54:16 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2002 17:18:18 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Fox in Focus! UFOs: Proof of Life?' - Caput


 >From: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >To: <- UFO UpDates Subscribers ->
 >Datet: Saturday, October 05, 2002 7:34 AM
 >Subject: UFO UpDate: 'Fox in Focus! UFOs: Proof of Life?'>


 >Source: Foxnews.com

 >http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,64678,00.html

 >Friday, October 04, 2002

 >Fox in Focus! UFOs: Proof of Life?

 >Saturday October 5 at 11 p.m. ET and Sunday, October 6 at 4 a.m. ET
 >Hosted by Rick Folbaum

 >From the first moment we looked up at the stars, we've wondered
 >if there is life beyond our planet. Over the years, an entire
 >sub-culture has grown up to study the phenomena - They call
 >themselves "Ufologists" and Fox in Focus examines their most
 >compelling stories and tapes from around the world. From the
 >convincing to the bizarre, UFOs: Proof of Life? reveals both the
 >science and the fiction behind the headlines.

 >For those of you who would like to go even further beyond the
 >headlines here's some additional information about one of the
 >people featured in our special:

 >Pamela Stonebrooke claims to have had a sexual relationship with
 >an extra-terrestrial. Her story is that one night, she woke up
 >and found herself making love to a gorgeous man. This man, then
 >transformed into a reptilian being. Stonebrooke, aka the
 >"Intergalactic Diva" is now a professional singer in the Los
 >Angeles area and has written a book about her alien encounters.
 >The book is called: Experiencer: A Jazz Singer's True Account
 >of Extraterrestrial Contact.

 >You can also find out more at Ms. Stonebrooke's Web site:
 >http://www.intergalacticdiva.com/



Greetings all.

I'm anxiously awaiting comments about the broadcast on FOX.

IMHO, it appeared to be fairly balanced (as is Fox's claim). I
did in all honesty miss the first 20 minutes of the broadcast.

Any thoughts?

Scott Caput







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   Oct > Oct 7

                   French View Of Kelly Hopkinsville Case

From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos@yahoo.es>
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 17:40:48 +0200 (CEST)
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 05:32:19 -0400
Subject: French View Of Kelly Hopkinsville Case


The French researcher Renaud Leclet has posted a report in
English on the Kelly Hopkinsville case, as seen from a different
Perspective:

http://perso.club-internet.fr/francine.juncosa/pages/souspagekelly3eng.htm>


Regards,

V-J







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                      Metal Orbs & Crop Circles in US?

From: Patricia Beatty <pbeatty@nyc.rr.com>
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 17:35:25 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 05:35:24 -0400
Subject: Metal Orbs & Crop Circles in US?


[Non-Subscriber Post --ebk]

I'm looking for information on a 9" metal orb that was retrieved
at the site of a large crop circle in 1978, Illinois from a
farmer and his son.

The two witnesses were repairing a roof on a building on their
farm and stopped to watch as three metal orbs, following a
distinct pattern created a crop circle. The farmer contacted the
USAF and told them what he had seen from his roof with his son.
Within an hour or so men arrived and the farmer was paid five
times the value of his crop to permit the USAF to burn his field
of oats. The farmer relinquished the metal orb to the
representatives on loan, telling them that when the orbs were
done with the pattern in the crops, one hit the other mid-air
and fell to the ground in the center of the crop circle.

I've been trying to run down information on this story for a
piece that I'm working on. I work for Intercontinental News
Media Service in DC.

We have two other reports of seeing these same metal orbs with
very good corroborating witnesses that include a group of
Houston Police Detectives who swore that three of these orbs
chased two young men in tandem all over a field one evening
while they watched in shock, the orbs knocking the men to the
ground repeatedly, diving at them, pursuing them and finally
flying off in a group of three when the two men lay on the
ground sobbing.

The next story came from two hostesses off of an American
Airline Flight between Florida and California in which three of
the same type of orbs came through the hull of the plane then
appeared to check each row for what the other witnesses clearly
stated was a search for someone in particular. Finally, two of
the orbs found two people in different areas of the plane while
the hostesses and one pilot who had been asked to come to
witness what was happening watched in terror. Two of the orbs
moved into the rows on either side of the plane, hovered in
front of the shocked passengers, appearing to communicate with
one another. They left the same way that they came in and
weren't seen again.

My deadline is running out and I can't even get a reply on this
information. Have you guys ever heard anything about these
circle makers?










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                     Are We Really Ready For Disclosure?

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 18:52:23 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 05:40:18 -0400
Subject: Are We Really Ready For Disclosure?


Hi Everyone!

I listened to John Velez on Errol's 'Strange Days... Indeed' UFO
radio program about the disappointing response to the petition
to get the United Nations to encourage member states to release
all information about UFOs to the public. It reminded me of
something I had just read a few days earlier.

Going through the personal correspondence of the famous Canadian
investigator of flying saucers, Wilbert B. Smith, I found many
incredible statements which he made in his letters. One of these
to a Mr. Caswell dated February 23, 1959 is quoted below in
part.


"For your information _every_ nation on this planet has been
officially informed of the existance of the space craft and
their occupants from frome elsewhere, and as nations they must
accept responsibility for any lack of action or for any official
position which they may take. There is nothing more to be done
along these lines, and efforts in this direction is effort
wasted."


If Smith is right, we may just have to try harder but when you
consider this and a few other selected quotes from Smith in his
letters written just a few days later, one wonders if the public
is really ready for the revelations about UFOs. In his letter to
a Mr. Trench dated March 3, 1959, Smith wrote:


"I have never met any of these people from elsewhere myself face
to face, although several of my friends have, and I have
confidence in their veracity. I have communicated with them by
radio and by "tensor beam", and I can honestly say that I am as
well aquainted with some of these people from outside as I am
with people with whom I work at my office."


As I understand it, communication by tensor beam can be compared
to mental TV where actual images are perceived. The fact that
Smith wrote that he had not met people from elsewhere in person
should not cast doubt on his earlier claims of working with lots
of flying saucer hardware and his later confessions to family
and friends of having seen dead aliens. Jackie Gleason was also
shown dead aliens by his friend Richard Nixon during the last
days of his Presidency and Dr. Eric Walker in his letter to
researcher William Steinman dated September 23, 1987 alleges
that four human looking ETs successfully intergrated into our
society and that these aliens are well known to most of us.
Errol is not one of them, though I have some reservations about
Dick.  ;o)

I guess the point I want to make is that if we quickly dismiss
such things as nonsense and too weird to accept, well, maybe we
may not be ready for the truth which may be stranger still.

Let me quote from one more letter by Smith from that same
period. In his letter to Russell (in Toronto) dated Feb 26, 59
Smith has this to say:


"Our gravity work is proceeding well. We have positive lab
results, and a good bit of the theory worked out. I feel quite
confident now that we know what gravity really is, and some of
the rules. There is a good chance that we might be able to
develope spacecraft quite on our own if we had to."


Smith's research, although discouraged by the NRC with actual
threats to those scientists and engineers helping him with the
loss of their jobs, found much interest by other researchers
abroad. If we were successful in constructing such a spacecraft
over four decades ago, we may have used it to fly to the Moon to
take pictures of Neil Armstrong climbing down the steps of their
Lunar Module just before he placed his foot on the lunar
surface.

Maybe there would be too much history to re-write and there are
still some other things which may be too disturbing for some.
For example, the public may not forgive those in authority who
dealt with the aliens on our behalf while suppressing certain
important truths which could have benefited all of mankind.

Also, I suspect that, should these aliens look very much like
us, it may shatter certain accepted scientific or religious
beliefs such as the belief that we are the result of an accident
of nature and became what we now are through biological
evolution and chance alone. We may find that the reason we are
so much alike and exhibit the same "brushstrokes" with ETs is
that we were made by the same "artist" Creator. If this is true,
I know this would piss off fellow atheist evolutionists down the
hall where I work.

What are your thoughts about having a small group of members
from within the ufological community or a cross-section of
society to be informed of the whole truth first and then have
them decide if the potential risks of UFO disclosure outweighs
the benefits to our society? Maybe this has already happened.
Let us speculate that it was learned that aliens first came to
Earth aboard their spacecraft (the Moon?) many thousands of
years ago and now not only share our world but also played a
major role in our history.

Should such a secret continue to be kept?


Nick Balaskas








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   Oct > Oct 7

                            Bugbear Virus Alert!

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2002 16:56:18 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 05:45:38 -0400
Subject: Bugbear Virus Alert!


Hello all:


Below is a message from Dave Bolton of this List.

The Bugbear virus appears to have infected somebody, very likely
on this List.

It took my name "Larry Hatch" and spliced that with Dave's
actual email address, then sent out infected attachments all
over the place.

The fact that Dave and I are both on this List might well
indicate that some third party on the list is indeed infected,
and that is where both email addresses (Dave's and mine) were
found. The result was:

Larry Hatch <larry@dbolton.co.uk> .. which is bogus.


Neither of us use MS Outlook/Outlook Express for email editors,
and both of us have run NAV and other antivirus software to
verify our machines are clean.

I strongly recommend that List members update their NAV (or
whatever) with the latest definitions, then run a full scan.
That's always a good thing to do anyway.

In addition to your regular AV program, here's a specific link
where you can download a program specifically designed to hunt
out Bugbear and variants:

http://www.bitdefender.com/download/download.php?file=AntiBugBear.exe

Watch for and repair any URL wrap, its worth if for the peace of
mind. Download is fast, scan takes some time.


Best

- Larry

---

Subject: Re: Virus Alert!
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 00:06:45 +0100
From: "David G Bolton" <David@dbolton.co.uk>
To: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>

Hi Larry,

I was about to email you about this, but I see someone has
beaten me to it.

Yes - its the "bugbear" virus/worm - and you may (or may not)
have it.

The virus "spoofs" email addresses by splicing the front half of
one to the second half of another from addresses it finds in
your mailbox or address book. A large number of virus emails
were sent out with your name at the front and mine at the end -
  so I've been swamped with all the bounce messages.

These may be coming from your machine - but that's not definite.
  If NAV says your machine is clean, then it probably is. All I
can say is that the infected messages are coming from someone
who subscribes to the UFO Updates list (so will have both our
addresses in their mailbox).

I also appear to be virus free at present - I use Pegasus Mail
rather than Outlook or Outlook Express which gives me a certain
layer of protection from virii that exploit loopholes in the
Micro$haft software.

Good luck - this virus is causing havoc out there.... :-(

Dave B








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   Oct > Oct 7

                      Re: Rudiak vs. Moore - Hutchinson

From: Bruce Hutchinson <bhutch@grassyhill.com>
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 23:44:49 -500
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 05:47:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Rudiak vs. Moore - Hutchinson


 >From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 19:51:21 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Rudiak vs. Moore

 >>From: Bruce Hutchinson <bhutch@grassyhill.com
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 19:12:58 -500 Subject: Rudiak vs. Moore

Lan, List, and Readers;

<snip>

 >But given the information provided so far, it appears that
 >Rudiak's interpretation is thoroughly conventional while
 >Printy's interpretation is, um, novel.

Well - maybe if you had read Moore's book you might not feel
that way.

Given that a scientist with long experience in reading and
interpreting wind tables read it the same way Tim did, gives, I
think, a great deal of credence to Tim's graph as correct.

On the flip side, your casual support of Rudiak's graph is more
than a bit puzzling. There were only 41 data lines available on
the table published in Moore's book, yet David somehow managed
to come up with over 70 data points on his graph. You will have
to explain to me just how that might be viewed as a
"conventional" interpretation.

But you did bring up one interesting point: In Moore's table,
there are 41 lines of time/wind data. Obviously, one wind data
entry must be thrown out. When looking at Moore's table, the key
is the first line gives an end point of x=0, and y=0, stateing
that he he did not use the first wind data entry.


Regards,

Bruce Hutchinson







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              CCCRN News: BC, Saskatchewan & Ontario Formations

From: Paul Anderson <psa@look.ca>
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 00:57:55 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 05:49:32 -0400
Subject: CCCRN News: BC, Saskatchewan & Ontario Formations


CCCRN NEWS
The E-News Service of the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network

http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada

October 7, 2002

_____________________________


UPDATES - BC, SASKATCHEWAN AND ONTARIO FORMATIONS

Several formation updates:

Field reports, survey diagrams and additional photos, including
aerials, have been added to the web site for the two corn
formations at Mission, British Columbia. A complete ground
survey was finally able to be done on September 22 (Paul
Anderson, CCCRN and David Pengilly, UFOBC), after some initial
reluctance from the landowner. Plant and soil sampling of the
first formation was done for biophysicist Dr. W. C. Levengood in
Michigan, USA. Both formations are pictograms, the first
approximately 45 metres (149 feet) long and the second 87 metres
(284 feet); the second formation was initially smaller when
first reported on September 8, then an additional large 149 x 29
foot pathway was added to it sometime between then and September
20. Additional pathways and a half-circle were reported added
now also to the second formation as of September 30 (details
pending). The formation that keeps on growing! These are the
largest known formations in corn (maize) so far on record. Corn
in both fields is approximately nine feet tall, used for
livestock feed. See also the new report on these formations on
the Earthfiles web site (Linda Moulton Howe), from the September
28 Dreamland radio interview, as well as an overview of all the
Canadian formations of 2002:

http://www.earthfiles.com/news/news.cfm?ID=3D401&category=3DEnvironment

http://www.earthfiles.com/news/news.cfm?ID=3D403&category=3DEnvironment

Photos of possible BOLs ('balls of light') taken in the evening
in the Weyburn, Saskatchewan formation have been posted. Unusual
multiple bright white lights or objects of various sizes.

Field reports have also been added for the East Garafraxa,
Ballinafad, Limehouse and Georgetown formations in Ontario, as
well as aerial photos for East Garafraxa. Both the Limehouse and
Georgetown formations have recently exhibited a significant
'greening' effect, with lusher, greener grass now growing in the
same patterns where the wheat crop had originally been flattened
(photos posted).

For all updates, see the Crop Circles in Canada 2002 page on the
web site:

http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada


Crop Watch is an annual research project of CCCRN, including
field investigations and studies of formations, aerial
surveillance and awareness initiatives for farmers, the public
and the media, in particular during the prime August / September
'circle season' on the Canadian prairies

____________________________


CCCRN News is the e-news service of the Canadian Crop Circle
Research Network, providing e-mail updates with the latest news
and reports on the crop circle phenomenon in Canada, as well as
other information on CCCRN-related projects and events, sent
free to your e-mail.

To subscribe, send an e-mail with Subscribe CCCRN News
in the subject line to:
cccrnnews@look.ca


The Canadian Crop Circle Research Network is a non-profit
research organization which has been investigating and
documenting the crop circle phenomenon and other possibly
related phenomena in Canada since 1995, creating a liason
between researchers, farmers, the public, the media and
scientists in trying to solve this ongoing enigma.

Main Office

202 - 325 East 14th Avenue
Vancouver, BC V5T 2M9 Canada
Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522
Cell: 604.727.1454
E-Mail: psa@look.ca
Web: http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada

=A9 Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, 2002








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                    The Hunt For Anti-Gravity Technology

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 07:08:10 +0200
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 18:08:15 -0400
Subject: The Hunt For Anti-Gravity Technology


Source: The Atlantic Monthly

http://www.theatlantic.com/unbound/interviews/int2002-09-05.htm

Stig

***

Atlantic Unbound

September 5, 2002

**

Interviews

*

Nick Cook, a respected military journalist, describes his foray into a
hidden "black world" where powerful technologies of warfare are born

The Hunt for Zero Point by Nick Cook Broadway Books 256 pages, $26.00

.....

To those who spend their time scanning reams of dry defense-
spending documents, the black budget is a well-known bit of
excitement. It is the discrepancy that's left when all the known
weapons procurements, research programs, and technical
developments are added up. It's also where groundbreaking
technologies, such as stealth, are developed under code names
like "Black Light," "Classic Wizard," and "Link Plumeria." These
technologies are kept secret during their gestation because to
even hint at the ideas behind them would be to reveal too much.
This year, according to the Center for Strategic and Budgetary
Assessments, the U.S. military's black budget will rise to
levels not seen since the 1980s, from $16.2 billion last year to
$20.3 billion.

There is no way to know exactly what that money is being spent
on, but Nick Cook has some ideas. For fifteen years Cook has
been a defense and aerospace reporter for Jane's Defence Weekly,
which some consider the bible of the international defense
community. During his career Cook has often brushed up against
the "black world" and has even delved into it, both in reporting
for Jane's on advances like the B-2 bomber, and in working on a
documentary, Billion Dollar Secret, that probed the U.S.
military's classified (or black) weapons programs.

This last project was something of a prelude to Cook's new book,
The Hunt for Zero Point: Inside the Classified World of
Antigravity Technology, which documents his ten-year search for
a mythical technology that all the brightest minds in aerospace
were gushing about in the early 1950s. Strangely, just a few
years later the aerospace world was suddenly silent on the
subject. After about 1956, anyone who mentioned antigravity, or
the once-imminent "G-engines," was given a wide berth. It was an
odd switch that left Cook with questions: Had there been
anything to these rumors and reports? If not, why the hype? If
so, what had happened? So he set out to look for answers, and
what he found was surprising. Cook traced a long succession of
both military and civilian scientists and engineers working to
develop a branch of applied physics for which we still have no
vocabulary, but which seems to involve manipulating the little-
understood quantum-level "zero-point field" to achieve peculiar
effects, like shielding objects from gravity. If this were
developed and incorporated into flight vehicles, the
implications could hardly be understated: antigravity would
forever alter the world's economy, make global transport systems
obsolete, and, of course, change the face of warfare. Some also
felt that the zero- point field could be an enormous source of
energy, if only people could learn how to tap it.

Against the advice of his colleagues and friends, and against
his own better judgment and career interests, Cook felt he
couldn't ignore the leads he uncovered, which drew him through
the black labyrinth back to an unexpected place: Nazi territory
around the end of World War II. That is where, Cook claims, some
of these technologies were first developed and then acquired by
American and Russian forces, who raced to pillage the
underground facilities around Pilsen in the Czech Republic and
around Breslau (now Wroclaw) in Poland. There an SS general
named Hans Kammler operated the "wonder weapons" program, which
the Nazis were convinced would propel them ahead of the Allies
to win the war. At the war's end Kammler disappeared. Though he
had been one of the main planners of the death camps, his name
was never mentioned at the war-crimes trials in Nuremberg.

One conclusion Cook reaches in The Hunt for Zero Point is that
some of the "Foo Fighters" that World War II pilots reported
seeing over Axis territories may have been German prototypes of
new flying machines that used antigravity technology. He also
posits that somewhere in the black world, work has likely
continued along these lines, and that much of the wackiness
surrounding sightings of "UFOs" has been deliberately spun to
ward off investigations of new technologies in development.

Since the book's publication in Britain, Cook has uncovered
documents detailing Boeing's antigravity research program at the
top-secret Phantom Works, where the company is striving to
develop "propellantless propulsion" ahead of its competitors.
Writing in Jane's Defence Weekly, Cook quoted the documents as
saying that along with Boeing's own program, other "classified
activities in gravity modification may exist"=97suggesting that
antigravity may, in fact, have been more than a 1950's fantasy.

For his work at Jane's, Nick Cook has received the Royal
Aeronautical Society's Aerospace Journalist of the Year Award
four times, in the Defence, Business, Technology, and Propulsion
categories. He also writes for The Financial Times, The London
Times and often comments on defense and security for the BBC and
CNN. I spoke to him at his home in London.

=97Frank Bures

**

BLACK PROJECTS? Nazi weapons programs? Antigravity? UFOs? A lot
of people are going to read the dust jacket of your book and
think you've fallen out of your tree. What's the reception been?

The response to the UK edition has been remarkably good. The
really pleasing thing has been the reaction of people within the
aerospace business. Everything in this book had to pass muster
with me, through a set of criteria that I would apply to any
Jane's story. I've read a lot of conspiracy-based books=97UFO
treatises and heaven knows what=97none of which satisfied my
professional curiosity. I realized that to go that extra mile, I
was going to have to be rigorous in my research. And if what I
found didn't match my own criteria, I wasn't going to put it
down on the page. Consequently, there's reams of stuff I left
out because it didn't match up to the professional standards
that I, as a Jane's-trained journalist, had come to expect in
other stories.

THE SUBJECT HAS been kind of a poison pill in the past, hasn't
it?

Yes, I guess so. People were begging me, urging me, not to get
involved in this story. But in the end I couldn't ignore the
evidence that I was uncovering and that was being presented to
me. You can only stare at evidence so long before it starts to
pull you in. I was really dragged reluctantly, kicking and
screaming, into the story, as you can see from the book.

I found the evidence overwhelming that something=97and I stress
something=97is going on. I don't reach any definitive, Holy Grail
conclusions about antigravity beyond the fact that there are
people out there who are regularly practicing it. People have
asked me, "Well, do you know that the U.S. Air Force and the
U.S. military have this squirreled away somewhere and are
developing hardware?" No, I don't. And I don't dress up The Hunt
for Zero Point in that way. Where I do have evidence I present
it. For example, I think the evidence of what the Germans were
doing during the Second World War is overwhelming. But I don't
make any bold claims for what the U.S. is doing, simply because
I don't have the evidence for it. Also, I think my experience in
covering aerospace programs has been beneficial, in that I'm
able to extrapolate a little. And where I do extrapolate in the
book, I make it clear that it is my own extrapolation.

For instance, based on what we know of black program activity in
the States, based on what we know the black budget is worth, and
based on what I know the U.S. Air Force is capable of in terms
of turning vision into reality, I extrapolate that it is not
unreasonable to think that they have taken antigravity
technology, which has been around for fifty years, and put it to
some use.

THROUGHOUT THE book, one of the themes seems to be how your
world gradually splits into a white world, where everything is
open and aboveboard and accessible=97the one you report on for
Jane's=97and a black one that you can just make out the shape of,
and that swallows billions of dollars developing experimental
technologies, but that slips away whenever you get close. What
can you tell us about this black world?

You're right in that most of my reporting for Jane's is on the
white world. That's the visible and accessible side of the U.S.
aerospace and defense industry. On the other hand, I have made
extensive investigations into the black world as well =97that
world in which America develops systems it doesn't want anyone
else to know about. What really got me into it was one of the
most significant aerospace and defense technologies to come out
of the black world in living memory=97and that's stealth. Stealth
is a technology that I was forced to investigate, along with
many of my colleagues, because it became the most dominant
military aerospace technology of the past two decades. And in
investigating stealth I and, I stress, my colleagues became
exposed to other black-world technologies, some of which are
detailed in the book.

A very small proportion of the reporting was deep throat, cloak-
and- dagger activity. Much of it was simply going to people who
had worked on stealth programs and were now free to talk about
them. Through that kind of exposure, you do get a very good idea
of what goes on inside the black world and of its worth. It has
a vast and sprawling architecture funded by tens of billions of
classified dollars every year. The height of its powers was
probably in the Reagan era. But it has not stopped since then.
In fact, under the Bush Administration it is having something of
a resurgence. So the black world is real, it's there.

IN THE HUNT FOR Zero Point you wrote that, "Like an unsinkable
ship, the black world had been built up around multiple, layered
compartments, each securely sealed. Some of these compartments,
it is now clear, had been designed never to be opened again.
Ever." Why ever?

There are some technologies, I think, that are so significant
merely in the ideas behind them that to allow those ideas to
percolate into the wider world would give other people those
same ideas about developing real hardware. And part of the trick
behind really advanced technology is sometimes to not even let
your enemies know you've got the idea in the first place.
Stealth technology is a primary example of that. But if you go
back even further and think about the atomic bomb, that was
another one.

During the Second World War, when it became clear that an atomic
bomb was feasible, the U.S. scientific community voluntarily
purged official documentation of all references to the potential
of fission. Sometimes, born of radical science, you can get
radical weapons systems that most people haven't even thought
of.

IN YOUR EXPERIENCE, just how black are these programs? Don't
they have to be reported to certain U.S. Congress members?

Well, the black world has opened up. There are reporting
mechanisms designed to keep Congress, or certain very highly
cleared members of Congress, aware of what is happening in the
black world. However, having said that, there are degrees of
black, and at the blackest, there are undoubtedly programs that
are not cleared by Congress, again for the very reasons that I
have just discussed.

For the TV program Billion Dollar Secret I interviewed a
congressman called Dana Rohrabacher, who was the chair of the
Space and Aeronautics Subcommittee and of the House Science
Committee. Now, he was convinced that the U.S. military had
developed an aircraft like the one referred to in the book as
Aurora, which is a hypersonic, very fast spy-plane prototype.
But he said that his efforts to get any information on that
program, if indeed it exists, were constantly frustrated. And
he's an influential member of the science panel in Congress.

YOU WENT FROM thinking the existence of antigravity technology
was "sheer fantasy" to saying there is "clear evidence" of it.
What changed your mind?

Well, it was a gradual transition. But it was a combination of
things, really. The whole black world that we've discussed was
the place where those sorts of technologies could come together,
for a start. Secondly, the documented progress that was being
made on certain physics problems in the antigravity field. In
the book I go into the Podkletnov case, this Russian scientist
who is able to generate a reduction in the weight of objects
that he puts above rapidly rotating superconductors. Now,
Podkletnov is undeniably generating a weight reduction. And he's
doing it on a shoestring. So that was another nail in the coffin
for me. And thirdly, by going back in history to a period where
research was unfettered =97seeing what the Nazis were doing in the
science field when they had absolutely no restraints on them.
The SS in particular had a pretty much unrestrained budget. They
documented what they did, and uncovering that documentation
allowed me to see that this research into antigravity technology
was not a recent phenomenon, but had been going on for quite
some time.

So it was a combination of those things. The history=97the fact
that it had been going on a long time ago=97mirrored in a real
sense by what people are doing on a shoestring today. Couple
that with what is potentially achievable in the black world, and
you start to see that the potential payoff for this research is
enormous. For payoff, you go to people like Hal Puthoff, a very
respected scientist in the field, and say, "All right Hal, gaze
into your crystal ball and tell me what you think might be
achievable." And the guy says, "There's enough energy in your
coffee cup to evaporate the world's oceans many times over."
Now, I'm a hard-bitten defense reporter, but that gets my
attention.

SO THE OTHER SIDE of the antigravity coin seems to be "zero-
point energy," this energy that exists in the quantum vacuum=97a
kind of subatomic froth that may even give electrons their
charge. Some scientists say the amount of energy we're talking
about here is a lot. Some say it's a little. Where do you come
down on that?

I'm not a scientist. I have to defer to people I respect in the
field, and one of them is definitely Hal Puthoff, a very sober-
minded individual who's conducting rigorous experiments into
this field. He postulates that there is almost unlimited
potential in the energy contained in the zero- point field. But
even he doesn't know, and in all the experiments he's done on
pieces of equipment that have been brought to him, he has
uncovered nothing yet that outputs more energy than it takes in.

Puthoff's theories lead him to the belief that the zero-point
field is not simply a vast sea of untapped energy, but that it
is also responsible for some of the underpinnings of
physics=97things like gravity and inertia, for example. Certainly
that seems to be borne out by more and more experimentation=97and
more and more people are coming round to that point of view.

ANYBODY RECENTLY who's come around to that?

NASA's breakthrough propulsion physics program is interesting,
in that here is a mainstream body=97you can't get much more
mainstream or respectable than NASA=97which is funding experiments
into breakthrough propulsion physics, one of which is
Podkletnov's claim that you can get an object to lose some of
its weight by suspending it above rotating superconductors.

GOING BACK TO the weapons that are too dangerous to be let out,
do you think that zero-point energy could possibly be one of
those technologies? What kind of explosive could result from it?
I'm just thinking of the Canadian researcher John Hutchison and
the things he was doing.

Hutchison is interesting, He's not a trained scientist. He's not
an academic. He's just one of these guys who has an intuitive
feel for electricity in particular, and other aspects of
physics. He puts bits of machinery together. He tunes them. He
adapts them. And from those pieces of machinery he's able to
transmute metals =97steel into lead, or lead into steel. But he
doesn't understand how he's doing it. He feels intuitively that
he's pulling these effects from the zero-point field. Now,
normally to transmute a metal, you need about the same amount of
energy as you get out of a low-yield nuclear weapon. And
Hutchison's doing that from his wall socket.

Those transmutations were documented by a Pentagon team. Now, I
tend to sit up and listen when Pentagon evaluation experts are
themselves paying attention to things like that. If somebody
like Hutchison can do transmutations on a shoestring, that
clearly is of concern=97particularly as he doesn't fully
understand how he's producing these very curious results. And I
don't think anyone else does either. People are beginning to
postulate that from the zero-point field=97if we can call it a
field=97you could eventually get truly awesome weapons. People
were saying similar kinds of things about fission in the late
1930s, and look where that got us.

ONE OF THE MOST gripping parts of your book is the description
of "Operation Paperclip"=97the dismantling and retrieval of all
known German technology, science, and related expertise at the
end of World War II. You write that this "state within a state
had been transported four thousand miles to the west"=97to the
United States. When learning about today's black world, why is
it important to go back and study Operation Paperclip?

Two things. First of all, we know the size and scope of
Operation Paperclip, which was huge. And we know that the U.S.
operates a very deeply secret defense architecture for secret-
weapons programs that we know as the black world. It is a highly
compartmentalized system and one of the things that's intrigued
me over the years is, How did they develop that? What model did
they base it on?

It is remarkably similar to the system that was operated by the
Germans=97 specifically the SS=97for their top-secret weapons
programs during the Second World War. Now, did someone, Hans
Kammler or anyone else, provide that model lock, stock, and
barrel to the U.S. government at the end of the war? I don't
know the answer to that, but given the massive recruitment that
went on under Paperclip, and given what we see in the black
world, it might not be unreasonable to ask those questions.

FOR THOSE WHO haven't read the book, can you say briefly who
Hans Kammler is?

He was an SS general who, by the end of the Second World War,
was in charge of all of the Nazis' secret-weapons programs. He
was an extremely powerful man. He was up to his neck in the
Holocaust as well, and amongst his earlier responsibilities he
had been one of the main architects of the death camps. Now, at
the end of the Second World War, he disappeared. And from what
little documentary history he left behind, we know that he was
thinking of trading his war crimes for technology, which he
wanted to give to the Americans in order to buy himself
immunity. But his crimes were so heinous that immunity for
someone like Kammler wouldn't be enough. He'd actually have to
buy disappearance. So Kammler disappeared, and no one knows
where he went.

What is remarkable about Kammler is that so few people know his
name. And yet at the end of the Second World War, he was one of
the most powerful men in Nazi Germany. He should have been tried
in absentia at the Nuremberg war- crimes trials. But his name
didn't even surface there, even though others who couldn't be
found were tried in absentia.

So it's very strange, but his hold over the high-technology
weapons=97the wonder weapons, the Germans called them, these
weapons that they thought would win them the war right at the
last minute=97his hold over those weapons at the end of the war
was absolute. And in the book, we glimpse some of those weapons.
Who knows what else was in his Pandora's box of technologies?

When I started the book I thought all this stuff about the
Germans was mythology peddled by cranks and weirdoes and
conspiracy nuts. But one of the most satisfying aspects of the
research for me was going into modern day Germany, Austria, and
the former Czechoslovakia and finding that, contrary to all my
expectations, there actually is real, tangible evidence that
what the Germans were doing in this field was true. That's not
to say it's all true. But in some cases there is real documented
evidence, evidence that I was able to look at: diaries I was
able to touch and see, plans I was able to look at=97original
plans=97for these devices.

WHAT DEVICES?

Ones that A) generated an antigravity effect, and that B) were
tapping into the zero-point field to produce energy. Even if you
don't want to believe that that's what they were
doing=97generating an antigravity effect or a zero point energy
effect=97it's clear that the Germans themselves believed this
stuff. And that they threw real money at these programs to get
them to work.

That was the thing that really made me sit up and take note. The
Germans, who aren't known as slouches in the engineering field,
truly believed that by throwing money at these programs, they
could get them to work. As an old skeptic, what I do is follow
the money trail. And I followed the money trail in Nazi Germany
just as I followed the money trail in the black world. At the
end of that trail, you often come across a real program, a real
piece of technology that, when you throw a brick at it, it goes
clang. It's real.

THE ARCHIVIST at Modern Military Records in Maryland told you
that Hans Kammler had been "redlined." Can you explain what that
means?

I made a lot of inquiries through her, and she found it
extraordinary, given what I told her about Kammler=97I had to tell
her about Kammler=97that there was absolutely nothing on him in
the National Archive, given that just about everything he was
doing should have been documented in the files somewhere. The
fact that there was nothing on him was therefore highly
suspicious, and in her view tended to support the theory that
he'd been redlined. In other words, somebody had gone in and
cleared out any meaningful documents on him.

YOU ALSO WRITE that the black world in America is a "low-grade
reflection" of the system Kammler built to protect Nazi weapons
research.

I'm not for a second saying that there is direct linkage there.
What I do mean is that if you follow the trail of Nazi
scientists and engineers who were recruited by America at the
end of the Second World War, the unfortunate corollary is that
by taking on the science, you take on=97unwittingly=97some of the
ideology. The science comes over tainted with something else.
And that something else you have to be very careful of. It
carries unpleasant side effects with it, in that if you're not
careful, you lose sight of what it is you're protecting. What
you're ultimately trying to protect is U.S. national interest
and U.S. security. But not at any cost. I think that's the point
that many people make who've brushed up against the black world
and found their human rights violated by it. Not many have, but
certainly some have. Those people question whether that
unswerving loyalty to protecting high technology was worth it.
What do you lose along the way? You lose some democracy,
perhaps.

ANOTHER THING I found interesting was your point that the Nazis
had developed an entirely different approach to science, because
they thought Einsteinian physics was "Jewish science." What was
different about the Nazi scientific culture?

I think a lot of things, but in simple terms, it was an
extraordinary time. Basically, these people came to power in
1933 and by 1945 they were defeated. So there was this small
window of time=97twelve years=97in which things were really turned
on their heads in Germany. And during that period, science along
with many other things developed in a kind of vacuum. They were
certainly aware of things that were going on outside Germany.
But inside Germany they often developed very different
approaches to things. Certainly the approaches that they were
using to develop the bomb were dissimilar to the techniques
being used by the Americans. Whereas most of the rest of the
world was absorbed by Einstein's views of relativity and a big-
picture view of the universe, the Germans were very interested
in quantum science, in quantum mechanics, and what was happening
on a micro scale=97on a subatomic scale. So you had two markedly
different scientific cultures developing at the same time.

IN THE BOOK YOU touch a bit on the sticky issue of UFOs. Do you
think the UFOs people saw during and after the war are
experimental military craft?

I'd hoped at the beginning of the book that I might be able to
shed some light on what the UFO phenomenon is all about. But at
the end of the book I say, Look, I don't have enough evidence to
reach any firm conclusions on that subject. But all I can say is
that, given that we know that the Germans=97at least I know to my
satisfaction, based on what I uncovered=97were looking at disc-
shaped aircraft during the Second World War and that there were
various other programs looking into similar such fields, you can
probably say that there are disk-shaped vehicles out there that
have been developed in a prototype kind of sense, which may
explain some sightings.

If the body of sightings is any kind of yardstick of whether
UFOs are real, then some of those sightings, I think, could be
explained by experimental military vehicles. But not all of
them. At that point the trained skeptic in me says, enough, I'm
not going to postulate on that. It's a swamp. It's a bottomless
swamp, and I didn't want to get involved in it.

ONE OF YOUR conclusions was that the UFO obsession serves as
kind of a cheap security measure to keep serious investigators
from looking into black technologies. Is that right?

Yes, I think that's unquestionably true. Whether that's
intentional or a neat bit of happenstance for the U.S. military,
I don't know. There is certainly evidence that they have
manipulated the phenomenon from time to time to obscure their
very real developments. The CIA recently admitted that it had
given UFO stories a spin from time to time in the fifties and
sixties to hide what they were up to in the spy-plane field
during that same time period.

NOW, AS A DEFENSE program, how do you think antigravity
technology would change the face of warfare?

Well, in a number of basic ways. First of all, you don't need a
propellant. It's a reactionless motor, so that would be
immensely beneficial simply in terms of fuel consumption. But
that's a very menial advantage, in a sense. I think the real
potential is that if what you are doing is manipulating the
forces of nature, you may get untold effects from that
manipulation, effects that we can probably only guess at right
now, but which would lead to ultra-fast flight, extraordinary
maneuverability, and stealth=97the ultimate stealth vehicle, if
you like.

All the things that the military is really striving for may be
possible through this technology, or though this field. And it
is born of pure physics, which the military always loves. Pure
physics gave rise to the bomb. Pure physics also gave rise to
stealth. If you can crack the physics, a whole new world opens
up to you. That is a very powerful and seductive idea. And the
military loves those powerful and seductive ideas. But it's
afraid of them as well, because if it can get a hold of them,
other people can too.

IN THE EPILOGUE you say there's been a change in the climate
around issues like antigravity and zero-point energy. What has
that change been?

I detect it in a lot of literature=97newspapers, that sort of
thing. But it's difficult to hang my hat on, really. I guess my
experience that's come out of the writing of the book would bear
this out as well, which is that at the beginning of this story,
I go into it incredibly concerned about my reputation, worried
that I, who am interested in solid aerospace and defense
programs, should be drawn into this field, much against my will.
But by the end of the story=97and now=97I can hardly believe I had
all those concerns. It seems that in the ten years I've been
researching the book, we have become much more willing to accept
non- mainstream ideas, or ideas that a few years ago were
considered taboo. People are asking the questions. That's the
good thing. And as long as they keep asking the questions in
this field, which is really what I'm trying to do, I think
that's a positive development.

I think what is less than helpful is when people just dismiss
these ideas out of hand, and by the same token accept them out
of hand. At the moment, I'm trying to stick to a middle ground
and ask the questions, because I think they deserve to be asked.


*

The URL for this page:

http://www.theatlantic.com/unbound/interviews/int2002-09-05.htm.

[Link:]

 >From Atlantic Unbound: Digital Culture: "Reimagining the
Cosmos" (May 3, 2000)

Through the quest for a quantum computer=97described in Julian
Brown's new book, Minds, Machines, and the Multiverse=97much is
becoming clear about the strange, paradoxical world governed by
quantum mechanics. Will it change the way we think about our
universe (or multiverse)?

**

All material copyright The Atlantic Monthly Group. All rights
reserved.








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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   Oct > Oct 7

                    Mysterious 'Craft' Lands Near School

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 07:33:35 +0200
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 18:10:35 -0400
Subject: Mysterious 'Craft' Lands Near School


Source: New York Post,

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/nypost/index.html?ts=1033967832

This is an abstract, only. You have to pay to obtain the full
article.

Stig

***

WEIRD BUT TRUE

New York Post;

New York; Sep 13, 2002;

Bill Hoffmann and Post Wire Services;

Words in Document: 446

Available Formats: Buy Full Text

Abstract:

Later, witnesses claimed a mysterious craft was seen landing
near Flatwoods School, followed by a creature whose head which
resembled the ace of spades. The mystery was never solved, but
cops believe the object was a meteor and the "monster" was the
eyes of an animal glowing in reflected light.

Officials say [Brooke] accidentally turned on the stove while
jumping to get ...

Click to Purchase Complete Document: Buy Full Text

**

NEW YORK POST is a registered trademark of NYP Holdings, Inc.
NYPOST.COM, NYPOSTONLINE.COM, and NEWYORKPOST.COM are trademarks
of NYP Holdings, Inc. Copyright 2002 NYP Holdings, Inc. All
rights reserved.








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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   Oct > Oct 7

                    Raelians Produce 3 Viable Pregnancies

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 08:09:23 +0200
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 18:30:06 -0400
Subject: Raelians Produce 3 Viable Pregnancies


Source: AFP via The Sydney Morning Herald

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/10/03/1033538721433.html

Stig

***

Human cloned pregnancies 'in progress'

October 4 2002

**

Several viable human pregnancies are in progress in which cloned
test-tube embryos were implanted in host mothers, but the rate
of miscarriage is higher than normal, the head of a human
cloning firm said yesterday.

"Yes, we have viable pregnancies, that is to say three months or
more," French chemist Brigitte Boisselier, president of the firm
Clonaid, told AFP in a telephone interview from Clonaid
headquarters in Las Vegas, Nevada.

She said the implants of blastocysts, or embryos four to five
days from conception, had begun last February and March, but she
declined to detail how many were done, the stages they were at
or the outcomes.

She said miscarriages had occurred, "as they do in test tube
conceptions."

Several specialists in the field, including biologist Rudolf
Jaenisch of Massachusetts Institute of Technology's Whitehead
Institute, say such experiments are not only doomed to failure,
but are "irresponsible and repugnant."

Jaenisch has long spoken out against human cloning, a technique
that has had a high failure rate in animals and resulted in "a
veritable gallery of horrors" among aborted foetuses and live
births.

They include, he said, congenital malformations, physical
deformities, immune system deficiencies and premature aging.

Among the small number of cloned animals that live more than a
few days, many suffer defects or disease including pneumonia,
liver deficiency, obesity and premature aging, said Jaenisch.

However, said Boisselier, examination of aborted cloned foetuses
would have shown no abnormalities, implying the problem may have
been in the birthing rather than the gestation.

"We're trying to understand," she said. "Many factors can come
into play. The woman might not have been in condition to receive
the foetus."

She would not say what the failure rate was.

Last July, at the first International Bio Exposition in Tokyo,
Clonaid vice president Thomas Kaenzig said the company was doing
cloning in "10 to 20 clients," and that "50 host mothers" had
agreed to undergo the implant procedure.

Apart from those at Clonaid, other scientists are in the race to
produce the first cloned human.

Italian gynaecologist Severino Antinori said last May that three
women were pregnant with cloned embryos and that Russian and
Chinese teams were engaged in similar experiments.

AFP

**

Copyright =A9 2002. The Sydney Morning Herald.








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   Oct > Oct 7

                    UFO Picture Causes Controversy In UK

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 08:21:48 +0200
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 18:34:04 -0400
Subject: UFO Picture Causes Controversy In UK


Source: Sky News, October 5, 2002,

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1066335,00.html

Go the site to see the photo!

Stig

***

Did Aliens Visit Britain?

**

This is the photograph which has caused Britain's latest UFO
inquiry.

UFO believers say it is proof of a close encounter with aliens.

The picture was apparently taken by a parent from Tonbridge,
Kent, who said he grabbed a camera after hearing his son call
out that there was something strange in the sky.

It was posted to a local newspaper by a person who gave a false
name.

Accompanying the picture was a note from the photographer which
said he ran outside when his son called out from the garden of
their home.


Moving

It went on: "At first I thought it was a kid's helium balloon
that had floated off, but it wasn't going upwards, it was moving
sideways."

Experts from UFO Magazine examined the photo and could not prove
if it was real or a hoax.

Examination under special light filters showed two thin lines
coming from the object's peak.

It was impossible to say whether these were suspension wires
used by a hoaxer or natural quirks in the film.

Editor Graham Birdsall said: "If it is genuine, it would be
historically extremely important as one of the greatest ever UFO
pictures.

"If the photo is a hoax, it would be extremely elaborate."

**

Last Updated: 05:35 UK, Saturday October 05, 2002

=A9 2002 BSkyB








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   Oct > Oct 7

                 Discovery Channel Airs Avrocar Documentary

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 08:38:45 +0200
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 18:35:55 -0400
Subject: Discovery Channel Airs Avrocar Documentary


Source: Winnipeg Sun via FYI Winnipeg, October 3, 2002

http://www.fyiwinnipeg.com/cgi-bin/niveau2.cgi?s=3Dsport&p=3D63844.html&a=3D=
1

Stig

***

Flying saucer doc gets off the ground

by Pat St. Germain, Winnipeg Sun

**

The little green men were no-shows, but several eyewitnesses
confirmed a flying saucer sighting on Ferry Road on Oct. 2.

Measuring 5.5 metres in diameter, the silver orb is a replica of
'50s prototype the Avrocar, which is the subject of an upcoming
Discovery Channel documentary produced by Winnipeg's MidCanada
Productions.

"It really is the only true flying saucer that can be
documented," historian Bill Zuk says.

Too bad it wouldn't fly more than one metre off the ground. The
U.S. military funded the $10 million Avrocar project in the
early '50s in hopes of getting a flying saucer that could hover
at low altitude, then zoom into the stratosphere at supersonic
speed.

Low-speed hovering wasn't a problem. But the craft was
dangerously unstable at altitudes over one metre and its top
speed was less than 60 kilometres per hour.

The project was shelved along with the Avro Arrow in 1959, but
the Avrocar did set a precedent for vertical takeoff and landing
technology.

The replica from John Henry Creations will fly, thanks to
digital film technology. Director Cam Bennett says photography
on the doc began last week. It will include dramatic recreations
and interviews with engineers involved in the original project.
The documentary is due to air on Discovery in 2003.

2002-10-03

**

Copyright =A9 2000, Canoe Limited Partnership. All rights reserved.







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                  Winnipeg Couple Sees Boomerang-Shaped UFO

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 09:56:22 +0200
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 20:40:40 -0400
Subject: Winnipeg Couple Sees Boomerang-Shaped UFO


Source: Winnipeq Sun via CANOE. The page is no longer available.

Stig

***

News

October 4, 2002

This was one weird close encounter

By LAURIE MUSTARD -- Winnipeg Sun

**

OK, UFO fans, what did this couple see?

Last Nov. 2, a Friday, just after midnight, well known local
magician/entertainer Steve Chmara, 45, and his wife, Donna, 42,
are driving west on the Trans-Canada Highway just past Portage
la Prairie, heading to Regina for a Saturday show.

Donna is driving, Steve relaxing after a performance. The night
is clear. Steve's eyes wander from a plane he is watching, back
to the highway where, in the distance, he notices a bright
light.

Although she doesn't mention it, Donna has noticed the same
light and is thinking maybe it's a yard light on a farm. Donna
notices the dash clock reads 12:10 a.m.

Within a few seconds, the light appears to be getting closer and
much brighter, suddenly seems to surge through heat wave and
then is immediately in front of their car. The light is
brilliant (but doesn't hurt their eyes), lasts only a second or
so and disappears.

About the time they saw it do its "heat warble," Donna asked
Steve, "Did you see what I just saw?" and then it was on them
and gone.

Donna's wondering, "Where the heck did it go?" glances up
through the sunroof and spots it "at about telephone pole
height" just above the right side of their car. Steve, she
believes, is watching the same thing through his window. This
turns out to be a very mysterious part of their "encounter."

Although Donna can see this "UFO" quite clearly over them, she
just keeps on driving.

"I'm trying to rationalize," she recalls. "Jeez, are we close to
Shilo, is this a prank of some sort, a projection from a field
nearby? Absolutely nothing made sense. I watched it for what
seemed like a minute or so, observing it was boomerang shaped
and had what appeared to be a highly polished metal surface.

"It appeared to still be flying, facing the direction it had
approached us and so now was flying backwards. Finally, it
turned north-east, giving us a rear view of round thruster-type
engines at the end of each wing (both covered with an even more
highly polished metal), each with three glowing circular bands
of red within, and another smaller engine in the centre of the
V."

As it leaves, Steve opens his window, yelling, "It's got
thrusters, it's got thrusters," and both watch it move off
quickly. There is no noise, no heat.

To make a long story short, they are in shock, talk rather
excitedly about the encounter, as they continue on to Regina.

The mystery? Steve only remembers seeing the craft arrive in
front of their car, then speed off to the north east. He has no
memory of the period when Donna was watching it hovering over
their car. As it disappeared, she again checked the clock. Still
12:10.

"We know some people are going to say we're whacked," says
Steve, "but we're really not nuts. We don't attend UFO
conventions, none of that."

Chris Rutkowski, co-ordinator of UFO research a University of
Manitoba says there have been at least four other sightings of
this type of UFO this year in Canada: Cambridge, Ont., on Jan.
27; Telkwa, B.C., on Feb. 2; Newmarket, Ont., on March 27; and
Kelowna, B.C., on April 30.

He says Steve and Donna's is the most descriptive (with this
type of UFO), yet.

"Whatever we saw," says Steve, "it inspired both fear and wonder
and was truly the experience of a lifetime."

I know these people. They're not nuts.

Whaddya think kids? Contact?

**

Laurie Mustard can be reached by phone at 632-2749, by fax at 632-
4250, or e- mail at lmustard@wpgsun.com.
Letters to the editor should be sent to editor@wpgsun.com.

Copyright =A9 2002, CANOE, a division of Netgraphe Inc. All rights
reserved.







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   Oct > Oct 7

                      UK Family's 'Major' UFO Sighting

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 10:37:20 +0200
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 20:42:35 -0400
Subject: UK Family's 'Major' UFO Sighting


Source: Evening Standard via ThisIsDerbyshire

http://www.thisisderbyshire.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=64387&command=displayCo
ntent&sourceNode=63914&contentPK=2724837

Stig

***

FAMILY IN 'MAJOR' SIGHTING OF UFO


09:30 - 04 October 2002

**

A cigar-shaped UFO drifted over Ilkeston - and then did an
encore.

A family, from Kirk Hallam, say it appeared to head for the
village of West Hallam before returning from whence it came at
about 7.45pm on Monday.

The mother, father and son, who do not want to be named, have
lodged a detailed report with the Derby-based Phenomena Research
Association.

They also called Derbyshire police, who did not receive any
other reports.

Although looking like a cigar, they say it flew sideways and had
a series of lights.

The mother watched the object through binoculars from the family
home.

She said: "I have never seen anything like it. There's no
aeroplane like that.

"It seemed to float across and there was this hum coming from
it."

Her son first saw the UFO while he was looking towards Little
Hallam Hill, and alerted his parents.

The object had two rows of white lights near each end.
Underneath were two yellow lights - and a red pulsating beam.

The centre of the craft was dark and it was difficult to gauge
its size. But the mother held a biro at arm's length and said it
appeared as long as that.

The UFO came from the direction of the Stanton Works and later
headed back that way.

Omar Fowler, Phenomena Research Association spokesman, said:
"The family said that it made a low-pitched droning noise and
that is typical of a large UFO craft.

"It is a major sighting and points to an increase in activity in
the Ilkeston area."

**






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   Oct > Oct 7

                           Vallee On Crop Circles

From: Dave Haith <visions@ntlworld.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 10:25:34 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 20:47:18 -0400
Subject: Vallee On Crop Circles


Hi Friends and Researchers

I have been sent the below article by the well-respected UFO and
paranormal researcher, Jacques Vallee.

He tells me it can be freely distributed. It has already been
posted on the NIDS website.

This may not be a popular theory for the formation of crop
circles and raises a thousand issues.

But it surely deserves discussion.

Regards

Dave Haith

CROP CIRCLES: "SIGNS" FROM ABOVE OR HUMAN ARTIFACTS?

Some personal speculations on a fractal theme

The key to investigating anomalies often lies in asking the
right questions rather than pondering a long list of assumed
answers and fighting over hypotheses. The crop circles that have
adorned English fields in the last couple of decades are a good
example of this principle. Many well-intentioned "paranormal"
investigators and New Age enthusiasts have immediately posited
that the circles must be caused by Aliens, while the general
opinion of journalists and academics tended to state they were
the product of hoaxes. Indeed two retired men were featured in
the world media as the confessed authors of many circles. Over
the years several interested researchers - including this author
- have met with and interviewed self-described "artists" who had
generated some complex crop formations as a new type of display
where the landscape is used as a canvas to shock popular
consciousness and stimulate reaction. There is no question that
at least some of the formations - including some remarkably
complex ones - are their handiwork.

This leaves most of the formations unexplained, especially those
that have appeared in a very short time or under conditions of
very high mathematical accuracy. Drawing a bicycle or a spider
in a wheat field is one thing, the Mandelbrot set of fractal
geometry is quite another.

When sophisticated formations started appearing in the English
countryside several teams of UFO investigators (who came from a
background of soil and trace studies related to the familiar
imprints often left behind after sightings such as Delphos or
Trans-en-Provence) began to take notice. Rather than jumping to
conclusions about the origin and purpose of the formations they
drew up a list of fundamental questions that went like this:

Is there a change in the nature of the formations over time?
What is it, exactly, that happens to the vegetation inside the
affected areas?

Is there anything special about the location of the phenomenon?
To seek information on these topics they established a protocol
to gather vegetation samples and sent them to a number of
laboratories for microscopic studies. The results, which have
been discussed at meetings of the Society for Scientific
Exploration and other public events, have never seemed of
sufficient interest for the media (or, indeed, the ufological
mainstream) to take notice, perhaps because they conflicted with
the sensational nature of other hypotheses.

The answers are as follows:

The early formations were simple circles, then circles with
satellites. In later years more and more sophisticated and
precisely-drawn geometric figures appeared.

Vegetation is bent because the nodes are exploded. The stalks
are not broken and indeed the plants are often reported to start
growing again. All the significant formations were observed in
an area in close proximity to major research facilities of the
British defense establishment, often in controlled airspace.

So much for Aliens and Druids.

  These studies point to the crop formations as the result of
sophisticated electronic warfare experiments conducted by
defense contractors. The answer to question (1) provides the
first clue: If you are trying to calibrate a beam, drawing a
pattern on a wheat field can yield precision information within
the diameter of one stalk over hundreds of feet, an ideal test
situation. The answer to question (2) narrows down the type of
energy that can be responsible, because the amount of heat
radiation that needs to be coupled into one node of a stalk of
wheat to vaporize the water content is a known quantity, as
laboratory tests in France and in the United States soon
established. The answer to question (3) points to the likely
authors of the tests.

It is tempting to jump to the conclusion that some sort of
space-based weapon is being developed. I am reluctant to assume
this because of the cost involved. Even if satellites represent
the ultimate platform for such a weapon, which does not seem
obvious to me, the calibration tests can be carried out far more
cheaply from a conventional aircraft. In those cases when
witnesses on the ground have seen formations in the process of
being created, they have described a reddish glow at ground
level, with the vegetation bent over in a matter of minutes.
This would be consistent with a beam directed at the field from
a hovering dirigible, painting a figure very much in the same
way as an electron beam "paints" a digital image on a computer
screen. From conversations I have had with the investigators
involved, the beam would be unlikely to be a simple infrared
beam. Instead a combination of laser and microwave transmitters
may be involved, or a form of maser. Perhaps the increasingly
sophisticated tests are designed, precisely, to discover optimal
combinations.

This leaves several issues pending: Why don't witnesses see the
supposed hovering platforms if they simply fly over the
countryside? What about the "confessions" of the two retired men
who claimed they made the circles with a two-by-four and a piece
of string? And why do the experiments continue at a point where
the technology seems to have reached a high level of perfection?
I only have tentative answers to this new set of questions:

Many years ago I gave a lecture on UFO research at Oxford
University. One of the people attending, a physics faculty
member, told me of an interesting personal experience. His hobby
was to fly gliders over the English countryside. On one
occasion, on a bright afternoon, he was astonished to see his
plane reflected in a surface that appeared to be motionless in
the atmosphere. He actually flew around the object and
determined it was a perfectly reflecting cylinder. It is obvious
that such a device would have "low-observable" characteristics -
  a visual stealth platform.

What is suspicious about the two older men's "confession" is
that it appeared simultaneously on the front pages of
international papers and on CNN the same day. Any published
author familiar with the difficulty of getting media attention
will know that it takes a very powerful public relations firm to
get a story to the front page of the Wall Street Journal and the
New York Times, Le Figaro and many other papers the same day.
Where did the two pensioners get the kind of clout that would
spin their claim around the planet? The result was
instantaneous: The press and, more importantly, most scientists
lost all interest in the story for 10 years.

Why do the tests continue? I admit I have no good answer to
this. It seems farfetched to assume that they have become more
sociological than technological in nature, yet this could
provide an explanation. Soon or later the truth will be known,
and it can be used to discredit the community of paranormal
researchers who have rushed to decipher alien scripts in the
formations, or have hypothesized a return of the Druids, earth
lights or messages from Gaia without first testing the basic
physics of the situation. It may also be that such hypotheses
have been coldly planted among the New Age milieu as part of a
psychological warfare experiment, and that the real nature of
the crop formations can thus be hidden from serious attention
for a very long time.

Why would one need to develop such a beam? Destruction of
incoming missiles (or simple confusion of their electronics)
would be an obvious purpose, but several projects are already
under way to produce such weapons, notably at Boeing and other
defense contractors. But we may be wrong in assuming that the
beam itself is a weapon; it might be used simply to guide a much
larger amount of energy (contained plasma, or the fireball
created by a nuclear explosion, for example) to its ultimate
destination. The type of threat that is present in today's world
includes targets that one may not want to blow up, but rather to
fuse inside a fireball. Such a target might be a biological
laboratory, or a chemical factory, where dispersion of a
pathogen is undesirable. Is that what the innocent designs in
English fields are really telling us to get ready for? If so,
their message may be far more ominous that any communication
from ETs, friendly or not.

Jacques F. Vallee

________________________________________________________
E-mail address: visions@ntlworld.com

Infinity Channel Group:
http://tinyurl.com/1am1

Joanne's webpage in Positive Health magazine:
http://tinyurl.com/1alt

Joanne's entry on uktherapists.com website:
http://tinyurl.com/1alo
________________________________________________________

'If you keep a green bough in your heart the singing bird will
come'
___________________________________________________________

'You must be the change you wish to see in the world' Gandhi
___________________________________________________________







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   Oct > Oct 7

                         New Billy Meier-Style Case

From: George Hansen <gphansen2001@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 07:11:06 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 20:48:53 -0400
Subject: New Billy Meier-Style Case


A new Billy Meier-style UFO case is likely to attract attention
shortly. A Jay Solomon in Pennsylvania has a number of UFO
photos that are now on the web.

See:

http://www.thecomingoftan.com/default2.html

George P. Hansen

=====

The Trickster and the Paranormal

http://www.tricksterbook.com






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                 Re: Falsified and Fabricated Data - Warren

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren@pacbell.net>
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 08:28:23 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 20:51:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Falsified and Fabricated Data - Warren


 >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 09:47:43 EDT
 >Subject: Re: Falsified and Fabricated Data

 >>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren@pacbell.net>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 08:52:41 -0700
 >>Subject: Re: Falsified and Fabricated Data

 >>>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 13:03:20 -0700
 >>>Subject: Re: Falsified and Fabricated Data

<snip>

Hello Greg, Larry, Kevin & All,

I think that the important point is that the main consensus is
the "debris field" was quite large. Also the description given
by Brazel's daughter was in reference to what they had picked up
and not the site itself.


Regards,

Frank








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   Oct > Oct 7

              Re: French View Of Kelly Hopkinsville Case - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 21:51:08 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 20:56:22 -0400
Subject: Re: French View Of Kelly Hopkinsville Case - Hall


 >From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos@yahoo.es>
 >To: shg@topica.com, ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 17:40:48 +0200 (CEST)
 >Subject: French View Of Kelly Hopkinsville Case

 >The French researcher Renaud Leclet has posted a report in
 >English on the Kelly Hopkinsville case, as seen from a different
 >Perspective:

 >http://perso.club-internet.fr/francine.juncosa/pages/souspagekelly3eng.htm>


Vicente-Juan,

All I can say is that Leclet did not know Isabel Davis (who was
a close personal friend of mine, as well as a skilled
investigator and an intellectual of the first order).

His highly remote and presumptive interpretation of the
Kelly/Hopkinsville case is riddled with false assumptions and
illogical conclusions.


Best regards,

Dick





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   Oct > Oct 7

                         UFO Seen Over Georgian Town

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 00:11:37 +0200
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 21:02:12 -0400
Subject: UFO Seen Over Georgian Town


Source: Interfax Information Agency - Russia


http://www.interfax.ru/one_news_en.html?lang=3DEN&tz=3D0&tz_format=3DMSK&id_=
news=3D5598386

Stig

***

Politics

07.10.2002 13:22:02

UFO seen over Georgian town

**

TBILISI. Oct 7 (Interfax) - According to Georgian media reports,
residents from Rustavi spotted six or seven unidentified flying
objects (UFO) over their town late on October 3.

Georgy Chelishvili from Rustavi told Georgia's Prime-News agency
that he recorded the UFOs on a digital video camera for about
ten minutes.

He said that six or seven shining objects resembling turtles
appeared over Rustavi late on October 3.

All the UFOs, each of them about 50 meters in diameter, were
moving rather swiftly, sometimes hovering in the air. Then they
disappeared, he said.

Chelishvili noted that other residents also saw the UFOs.

**

=A9 1991-2002 Interfax, All rights reserved News and other data on
this web site are provided for information purposes only, and
are not intended for republication or redistribution.
Republication or redistribution of Interfax content, including
by framing or similar means, is expressly prohibited without the
prior written consent of Interfax.








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                        Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Gutierez

From: Gregory Gutierez <greguti@free.fr>
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 00:15:27 +0200
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 21:25:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Gutierez


 >From: Edoardo Russo <edoardo.russo@tiscali.it>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 18:09:01 +0200
 >Subject: Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Gonzalez Manso

Hello all, hello dear Eduardo,

 >>Sorry, Gregory. Mr. Pe=F1a did _not_ fooled any serious
ufologists in Spain

I would make a distinction here: In one of my mails about Ummo I
was speaking about "some weirdos" in Spain or something like
that. I think the Ummo case interested _well-known_ Spanish
ufologists. I don't know if Antonio Ribera or Rafael Farriols
were "good" ufologists or just good storytellers, 2 among so
many others collecting works from other people and doing books
and money with it.

I am interested in the Ummo letters because of what the letters
tell with sometimes very precise, weird, funny or smart
descriptions. I don't believe in it as an actual description of
a real new civilisation, but I do believe in the quality and in
the "art" of these texts. This is as subjective as I am
subjective when I state that I like the art of Jose Luis Borges.

Take for example the description of the every-day life in Ummo,
the social codes and rules of the Ummits in their society, the
pieces of their history, their description of the universe(s)
and the technology they describe.

Add to this the topic of their brotherly relationship to the
human kind, how they describe their interest for the opulence of
our many cultures, the polemics between them on the objects they
brought back to Ummo, etc.

Finally, add to it the impressive work of Pollion on the Ummo
langage (which is not a langage as english or french, but a
codified langage to describe things without any hint of
subjectivity, just like machines or computers speaking together)
and you have here something like 1500 pages of savage and
intriguing piece of litterature. Maybe it doesn't worth the work
of one Azimov, but it is, to my opinion, far better than what
you find in the usual contactee or cult litterature. And upon
all this, it can be stimulating for the mind (think about ther
works inspired by these texts to the french astrophysicist Jean-
Pierre Petit).

I require the right to be intrigued and captivated by this work.
And thus the right of trying to find who really wrote these
letters (a bunch of writters? Pena alone? Pena then his
followers? Someone else? Ummits for the planet Ummo, at the end,
why not!).

Let me quote Jean-Pierre Petit, who stated that the content of
the letters were "one third Einstein, one third Spielberg, one
third Marx Brothers". I agree with him on this point. That's why
I am interested in this field.

And that's why I do question the "Jordan Pena did it"
explanation: did he have the talent to do this alone or even
with friends? I was serious when I said I wanted to know the
biography of this man! What he did, what he published, what were
his own beliefs and his fights? I want to know if the content of
the letters actually fit the character and personality of Pena
as we could picture it throught his works and activities.

 >The real issue here is another, though: no UFO hoax can ever
be called a "closed case", because each and everyone of them
will live forever, once it is launched.

I think this Ummit affair is far beyond ufology in itself. As
you can see here with the reactions to my mails, the Ummo case
is not recognised as a solid one by ufologists. This is just "a
synonym for hoax", so case closed, let's see something more
interesting. Ufologists wont try to go deeper because their goal
is (IMHO) to find the perfect case, not to waste time in obscur
too weird hoaxs.

But on the other hand, I think the Ummit case doesn't need the
ufo community in order to survive. Look at the book by Jean
Pollion in which a whole chapter is dedicated to "Ummo and the
ufologists" (Pollion is very critical about ufologists). The
books by Jean-Pierre Petit, in the 90s, are also quite negative
about the ufologists. Ummologists don't appreciate ufologists
and ufologists don't like ummologists.

One last point is that when a case is widely spread among
people, and becomes a part of the popular culture, you really
can't stop it anymore. The question of the proof, the actual
history of the case, investigations on the testimonies, etc.,
all these datas are not efficiant neither heard anymore once the
case muted to a show. Look how Roswell is now a very famous
cultural myth. Your neighbour, who's not interested in ufology
at all, knows the Roswell story, the corpses found, the saucer
weckrage, the ambiguous attitude of the US army, the appearence
of a extraterrestrial being... Compared to the huge popular
success of Roswell, the Ummo case is a little piece of shit. But
I find it far more interesting, The Ummo story is better
written, thanks to the author :)

Well I'll stop here now, I am not on a fortean list for people
interested in these topics :)

Regards,

Gregory Gutierez
Paris, France
http://www.liste-aleph.org
French mailing list for fortean weirdos







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                         'Big Ball Of Fire' A Meteor

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 00:26:24 +0200
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 21:50:42 -0400
Subject: 'Big Ball Of Fire' A Meteor


Source: The Denver Post

http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36%257E53%257E908062%257E,00.html

Stig

***

'Big ball of fire' seen in western sky probably a meteor, experts say

By Will Ryan and Jim Kirksey, The Denver Post

**

Monday, October 07, 2002 - A fireball with a long tail streaked
westward across the western United States' sky Sunday night,
causing witnesses from Boulder to Durango to Salt Lake City and
even Idaho to call authorities with vivid descriptions of what
was probably a meteor burning up in Earth's atmosphere.

"We've gotten several reports of brilliant white light the size
of a basketball with blue flames turning to orange," Chaffee
County sheriff dispatcher Jeanette Stephens said.

Debbie Taylor, staff duty officer with the Federal Aviation
Administration in Seattle, said she got calls from Denver, Salt
Lake City and Idaho, and the observers "called it everything
possible from a UFO to a fireball to a meteor to a mid-air
collision."

There were no mid-air collisions Sunday night, she added. She
received the first call on the object at 7:28 p.m., she said.

"What people saw are the characteristics of a meteor," said
Denver Museum of Nature & Science spokeswoman Julia Taylor. "The
different colors are from the chemical composition of the meteor
as it burns and cools."

Douglas Duncan, the director of the Fiske Planetarium at the
University of Colorado at Boulder, said that fireballs are
usually meteors or man-made space debris entering the
atmosphere.

Duncan said that it is difficult to judge how large a meteor is
by how bright or how big it looks.

"A big, bright one looks pretty close, but we know that they
burn 60 to 100 miles up," Duncan said, adding that the space
shuttle and the Hubble telescope orbit approximately 300 miles
above the Earth.

A meteorite is a meteor that does not burn up in Earth's
atmosphere and falls to the ground.

If witnesses over a large area view the meteor, Duncan said, it
is possible to triangulate an approximate position for a
meteorite, but he said the chances of finding a meteorite are
small because they are hard to distinguish from surrounding
rocks.

A spokeswoman at the Boulder County Communications Center said
they received calls from east Boulder, Arvada and Allenspark,
saying the "big ball of fire" seemed headed toward the
Continental Divide.

No man-made object fell from space Sunday night, said Maj. Ed
Thomas, a spokesman for the North American Aerospace Defense
Command in Colorado Springs, which tracks satellites and
thousands of pieces of space debris.

"We don't have a mission to track meteorites, but that's got to
be what it is," he said.

Taylor said the museum would like to hear from any witnesses in
western Colorado who saw or videotaped the fireball so that
their "meteorite search team" can try to locate the fallen
object.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

**

All contents Copyright 2002 The Denver Post or other copyright
holders. All rights reserved. This material may not be
published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed for any
commercial purpose.







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                         Heavenly Light Widens Eyes

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 00:50:38 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 07:13:33 -0400
Subject: Heavenly Light Widens Eyes


Source: Deseret News,

http://www.deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,410017749,00.html

Stig

***

Monday, October 7, 2002

Wow! Heavenly light widens eyes

By Jody Genessy

Deseret News staff writer

***

Goodness gracious! A great ball of fire sure raised a ruckus in
northern Utah Sunday night.

Emergency dispatch operators, news organizations and space-
related businesses along the Wasatch Front were flooded with
phone calls from the curious and concerned. People reported
seeing a forest fire above Olympus Cove, an unusually bright
light in the sky from Ogden to Santaquin, a colorful fireball
above Morgan and Summit counties, even explosions in the
heavens.

The unidentified flying object streaked in a north-to-south
direction over Utah at 7:30 p.m.

"I'm looking to welcome the guys to Utah," said one police
dispatcher, joking about a possible E.T. sighting.

No such luck. This UFO was determined to be a meteor. It was
spotted anywhere from Bear Lake to Denver to Sevier County.

One person "saw a green ball of fire with a blue tail," said a
dispatcher who took at least 15 phone calls from concerned and
curious Summit County residents.

Police in Salt Lake County were dispatched to the possible fire
in the Olympus Cove area, but there wasn't one. Other people
"were calling in about the bright lights," said a Salt Lake
County sheriff dispatcher. "It's been rather interesting."

Peter Wilensky, a National Weather Service meteorologist (that's
meteorologist, not meteor-ologist) based in Salt Lake, called
this meteor a random event. It wasn't part of an "organized
shower" nor was it "a piece of space junk."

"Nobody reported any audio, any sound associated with it," he
said. "There were no sonic booms, so it was probably fairly
high. It's hard to say how large it is."

"All of a sudden we got lots of calls . . . from all sorts of
places," he added. "So it was a bona fide event."

Seth Jarvis, director of the Hansen Planetarium, believes the
meteor was probably rather small and was rapidly zipping along.
He was checking for an official American Meteor Society report
on ( www.amsmeteors.org), but one hadn't been posted as of
Monday morning.

"What really could've lit up the skies," he said, "was a rock
the size of a softball entering the atmosphere at 100,000 miles
an hour."

Some meteors we see are only dust-size particles smacking the
atmosphere. "It doesn't take much," Wilensky said.

Though some people reported seeing it land, that was probably an
optical illusion. Jarvis speculates the meteor was 60 miles
overhead. "It's unlikely anything actually landed," he said.

Chunks from outer space such as this one are so visible because
they create great heat when entering the upper atmosphere,
Jarvis explained. They vaporize into atoms from friction and
that vapor then causes a brilliant streak.

Which, in turn causes a lot of curiosity on Earth.

E-MAIL: jody@desnews.com

**






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                Re: Metal Orbs & Crop Circles in US? - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 15:50:59 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 07:15:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Metal Orbs & Crop Circles in US? - Hatch


 >From: Patricia Beatty <pbeatty@nyc.rr.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 17:35:25 -0400
 >Subject: Metal Orbs & Crop Circles in US?

 >[Non-Subscriber Post --ebk]

 >I'm looking for information on a 9" metal orb that was retrieved
 >at the site of a large crop circle in 1978, Illinois from a
 >farmer and his son.

 >The two witnesses were repairing a roof on a building on their
 >farm and stopped to watch as three metal orbs, following a
 >distinct pattern created a crop circle. The farmer contacted the
 >USAF and told them what he had seen from his roof with his son.
 >Within an hour or so men arrived and the farmer was paid five
 >times the value of his crop to permit the USAF to burn his field
 >of oats. The farmer relinquished the metal orb to the
 >representatives on loan, telling them that when the orbs were
 >done with the pattern in the crops, one hit the other mid-air
 >and fell to the ground in the center of the crop circle.

 >I've been trying to run down information on this story for a
 >piece that I'm working on. I work for Intercontinental News
 >Media Service in DC.

 >We have two other reports of seeing these same metal orbs with
 >very good corroborating witnesses that include a group of
 >Houston Police Detectives who swore that three of these orbs
 >chased two young men in tandem all over a field one evening
 >while they watched in shock, the orbs knocking the men to the
 >ground repeatedly, diving at them, pursuing them and finally
 >flying off in a group of three when the two men lay on the
 >ground sobbing.

 >The next story came from two hostesses off of an American
 >Airline Flight between Florida and California in which three of
 >the same type of orbs came through the hull of the plane then
 >appeared to check each row for what the other witnesses clearly
 >stated was a search for someone in particular. Finally, two of
 >the orbs found two people in different areas of the plane while
 >the hostesses and one pilot who had been asked to come to
 >witness what was happening watched in terror. Two of the orbs
 >moved into the rows on either side of the plane, hovered in
 >front of the shocked passengers, appearing to communicate with
 >one another. They left the same way that they came in and
 >weren't seen again.

 >My deadline is running out and I can't even get a reply on this
 >information. Have you guys ever heard anything about these
 >circle makers?

Hello Patricia:

If you can provide approximate date and place in Illinois, I
will see if I can look up the same or similar event in my
database. You cannot look up individual cases via my website
directly, I need to do that.

http://www.larryhatch.net/

I'm pretty sure the case is not listed as described. I would
remember something like that. Could you kindly tell us the
source also?


Please respond go my email address:

<webmaster@larryhatch.net>


Good luck

- Larry Hatch





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                Burning Object Streaks Over English Midlands

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 01:42:41 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 07:17:01 -0400
Subject: Burning Object Streaks Over English Midlands


Source: BBC News,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/england/2303349.stm

Stig

***

Sunday, 6 October, 2002, 10:33 GMT 11:33 UK

'Meteor' lights up Midlands

The object was seen shortly before 0600 BST

**

A burning object seen streaking across West Midlands skies on
Sunday morning may have been a meteor, astronomers have said.

The streaking fireball was seen heading south shortly before
0600 BST.

Its passage was followed by a bright flash which lit up the sky.

Sightings of the object were reported at sites including
Coventry, England's south coast and Wales.

Andy Salmon, from the Birmingham Astronomical Society, said it
may have been a meteor - space debris burning up in the
atmosphere.

He also suggested it may have been a man- made object, such a
satellite re-entering the atmosphere, or a rocket being
launched.

"Meteors can happen at any time... there's no predicting when it
may happen," he said.

One witness said the object had a tail.

"All of a sudden I've seen this light streak across the sky...
the front of the light was much larger than what you would call
the tail," he said.


'Like a film'


The BBC's Ben Godfrey saw the fireball as he arrived at work.

"It was reminiscent of a meteor you might see in a film... it
was huge," he said.

Local aviation authorities confirmed the object was not
aircraft- related.

It has been an eventful period for the West Midlands in nature
terms, with the region shaken by an earth tremor on 23
September.

c. MMII





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                          Boost For Life On Europa

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 02:03:40 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 07:19:25 -0400
Subject: Boost For Life On Europa


Source: BBC News,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/sci/tech/2284852.stm

Stig

***

Monday, 30 September, 2002, 13:52 GMT 14:52 UK

Boost for life on Jupiter moon

By Helen Briggs, BBC News Online science reporter

**

The chances of finding life on other worlds have received a
boost.

Data from the Galileo space probe's journey to Jupiter suggests
an ocean on its moon, Europa, is somewhat Earth-like.

Scientists in the United States think the moon's icy crust is
relatively thin.

There seem to be cracks and vents, which would allow gases, heat
and organic matter to reach what may be water beneath.

Dr Richard Greenberg and colleagues at the University of
Arizona, Tucson, US, came to this conclusion after looking at
images of the moon's cracked surface.

They were captured by the space probe Galileo, which has been
flying past some of Jupiter's many moons over the past few
years.

Dr Greenberg's team thinks the Europan sea has parallels with
some of Earth's icy oceans. Surprisingly, perhaps, it appears to
be more like the Arctic Ocean than Lake Vostok.


Buried bugs


Lake Vostok in Antarctica is one of the deepest-known bodies of
fresh water on the planet.

At least 30 million years old, it is a model for some of the
ice-covered oceans elsewhere in the Solar System.

Some have proposed that the lake might contain previously
undiscovered lifeforms.

But Vostok is now thought to be too isolated from surface
influences to harbour anything more than the most primitive
organisms.

Europa, though, appears more like the Arctic Ocean, the Earth's
smallest ocean, which occupies the region around the North Pole.

The Arctic Ocean is exposed to air and heat by the cracking and
melting of ice.

Europa too seems to have surface-to-ocean connections via
cracks, thermal vents, and tidal displacement, according to the
Arizona team.

Dr Cynan Ellis-Evans, of the British Antarctic Survey, is quick
to see the significance.

"In thermodynamic terms life abhors equilibrium," he says.
"These new interpretations suggest that a Europan ocean and its
ice cap could be dynamically interacting with the moon's surface
atmosphere over short time scales that increase opportunities
for life to exist and evolve."


Seeds of life


One intriguing possibility is that sulphur ejected from
Jupiter's volcanic moon, Io, could make it across to Europa.

"If we're getting a sulphur source going into the lake it's an
exciting possibility," Dr Ellis- Evans adds. "It increases the
opportunity for life".

Astrobiologists had thought the ice sheet covering the moon was
too thick to allow anything to get in. The new research will
give them food for thought.

"It is informed speculation which suggests that the condition
and environment will be suitable for life," says Dr Mark
Burchell, a space scientist at the University of Kent in
Canterbury, UK.

One scenario is that a meteoroid crashing into Europa could have
punched through the ice, carrying the building blocks of life.

"Dust and meteorites carrying organic or volatile materials
could have been delivered to the ocean below the surface," he
says.

The American space agency is seriously considering sending a
robotic probe to Europa to drill through the ice.

The research, published in the US journal Reviews of Geophysics,
will be welcome news for the scientists lobbying Nasa to go.

c. MMII






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                   Water On Mars A Few Million Years Ago?

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 02:08:33 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 07:20:53 -0400
Subject: Water On Mars A Few Million Years Ago?


Source: BBC News,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/sci/tech/2280991.stm

Stig

***

Wednesday, 25 September, 2002, 20:31 GMT 21:31 UK

Martian 'wobbles' shift climate

Climate clues are locked in the northern cap

By Dr David Whitehouse,
BBC News Online science editor

**

Mars undergoes periodic "wobbles" on its axis and variations in
its orbit that, like the Earth, may cause it to endure ice ages,
say scientists.

The evidence comes from high-resolution images of the planet's
northern polar ice cap, a dome of water-ice mixed with dust that
is up to 2.5 kilometres (1.5 miles) thick.

Images as well as measurements of the surface profile by the
laser altimeter on the Mars Global Surveyor spacecraft reveal a
spiral pattern of ice and dust ridges sculpted by fierce winds
and evaporation due to sunlight.

The estimated accumulation rate, of 0.05 centimetres (0.02
inches) a year, of these ridges suggest the cap is only about
five million years old, and that it was formed at the start of
the latest orbital changes that induced the most recent ice age.


Planet-wide ocean


A team led by Jacques Laskar, of France's National Centre for
Scientific Research, reports in the journal Nature that Mars
experiences dramatic changes in its axis and orbital shape that
result in enormous variations in polar "insolation" - the amount
of sunlight that falls on the cap.

The same effect happens on the Earth as well, but to a far
lesser extent because of the stabilising influence of the Moon's
gravity. Mars, however, without a large satellite, can move on
its axis up to 47 degrees.

The impact of this can be most easily seen at the north pole.

There, the ice and dust dunes are shaped by the interplay of
wind and sunlight. Any variation in solar radiation due to the
Sun's changing position in the sky will alter the way the
terrain develops.

Dr Laskar's research reveals that the size of the respective
layers and the variation in deposition of dust and ice in the
past matches Mars' orbital changes.

Drilling missions

The suggestion that the northern cap is only five million years
old intrigues astronomers as they calculate that if all the
water-ice in the northern cap were melted it would flood the
planet with water to a depth of a few metres.

If this happened in the past few million years then it could
explain the seemingly freshly cut valleys and erosional features
recently identified on the Red Planet.

The answers to such questions will have to wait until man or
machine goes to the polar regions.

Commenting on the research, Alan Howard, of the University of
Virginia at Charlottesville, US, said: "In the future, missions
that land on the planet and drill into the layered deposits may
provide definitive interpretations of the climate cycles on
Mars."

c. MMII






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               Re: UFO Picture Causes Controversy In UK - Pope

From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 01:17:10 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 07:22:24 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Picture Causes Controversy In UK - Pope


 >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 08:21:48 +0200
 >Subject: UFO Picture Causes Controversy In UK

 >This is the photograph which has caused Britain's latest
 >UFO inquiry.

 >UFO believers say it is proof of a close encounter with
 >aliens.


Stig and List,

This is indeed causing quite a stir here in the UK. Graham
Birdsall's UFO Magazine ran the story in the October 2002 issue,
on pages 18-21. Two national newspapers, the Daily Mail and the
Daily Star, featured it on Friday October 4. That same day
Georgina Bruni and I appeared on Sky News to discuss the
photograph.

In my Ministry of Defence job I used to receive a lot of photos
and videos of UFOs. Most of them had been taken at night, and
the vast majority showed little more than a vague light or
shape. Most images showed just the object in the sky, with no
ground features visible. Even with various in-house enhancement
and analysis techniques available, there was little that could
be done with such material. Even with the better material, it
could never be viewed in isolation; the image, the witness, the
witness's story, and information about the camera had to be
considered together.

The photo is certainly intriguing. And the story is, to use a
phrase often used in data evaluation, "interesting, if true".
But when all is said and done, all we really have is a photo and
letter, which were sent to the offices of a local newspaper. The
name on the letter did not check out, and while many genuine
witnesses are reluctant to come forward, we must be cautious in
such cases.

There are things that can be done here. Outside of government
and military circles, there are plenty of commercial firms that
do very good enhancement and analysis work. The police often use
such companies to clean up CCTV images. But until and unless we
have further information on the witness, no meaningful
investigation can take place.

Best wishes,





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   Oct > Oct 8

             Proof We're Special Among Civilizations Of Cosmos?

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 21:16:11 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 07:24:33 -0400
Subject: Proof We're Special Among Civilizations Of Cosmos?


Hi everyone!

I would like to share my latest contribution to 'Cosmic
Horizons' which Brad Snell produces and is co-hosted by us.
Could this new astronmical discovery be evidence that we are
special and possess a unique place in the universe?

Nick Balaskas

---

For 'Cosmic Horizons'
CKRG Radio, 89.9 FM
Glendon College
York University
Toronto


This will surprise many of you, but recent astronomical evidence
supports the view that York University, a small part of our
Milky Way galaxy, is at the center of the universe.

Many members of the York University community have always
considered this to be true, but for those few that had any
doubts, let me present some very important new facts that will
convince you too.

First of all, early in the 20th century it was discovered that
our universe was expanding. It was observed that the "billions
and billions" of galaxies scattered throughout the universe,
including our own Milky Way galaxy, were all moving away from
each other. In 1929 astronomer Edwin Hubble found that the
wavelengths of the light emitted by the galaxies were shifted
towards the red end of their spectrum. The percentage of this
"red shift", as it came to be known, was an indication of the
speed of the galaxy and proportional to its distance from us. So
according to Hubble's law, the larger the red shift measured,
the greater the distance a galaxy was from us.

Since all these billions and billions of galaxies in the
universe were all moving away from us, it was thought that we
had to be at or near the center of the universe. This conclusion
was not a valid one since observers on any of the other galaxies
would also see all the galaxies moving away from them too and
there could be only one true center of the universe.

As the number of red shift measurements for new galaxies
continued to increase over the last few decades, astronomers
noted that the galaxies clustered at evenly spaced or quantized
distances in all directions of the sky. At the present, all
these galaxies seem to outline a series of evenly spaced
concentric spheres around our own galaxy. Such an unexpected
structure would force us to scrap the big bang theory and come
up with a new galactocentric model of the universe with us at
the center.

When one considers that there are billions and billions of
galaxies in the universe, anyone of which could have been the
one at the center, why was our Milky Way galaxy selected?
Physicist Russell Humphreys, author of the recently published
paper, 'Our Galaxy is the Center of the Universe, 'Quantized'
Red Shifts Show', has calculated what the probability would be
if we are at the center of the universe by accident. It is less
than one chance in a quadrillion!

If all this is true, the secularist cosmologies of Albert
Einstein and Stephen Hawking would be proven wrong and an
obvious implication of this discovery would be that we must be a
special creation of an intelligent creator or God.

In the third century B.C. a Greek relative of mine, Aristarchus
(1) of Samos, proposed that the Earth and the planets revolved
around the Sun which he placed at the center of our solar
system. Unfortunately the rival Earth-centric theory won out (2)
and was accepted as true until Nicolas Copernicus came along in
the late 16th  century A.D. with his Sun-centric theory.

Sometimes science advances by taking big steps backwards from
our current understanding of what is true.

---

(1) If my research findings, including a recent trip to Mount
Ararat near the borders of Armenia and Iran, about the reality
of a global flood and Noah's Ark as described in Genesis are
true, then not only is Aristarchus of Samos my relative, but all
people of Earth are cousins of you and I too.

(2) Regrettably the compromising Roman Catholic Church also
accepted these scientific views of the time. When Galileo
presented evidence to the contrary and was attacked, it was not
the cosmology of the Bible that he challanged but the erroneous
scientific beliefs of the time which the religious leaders
accepted as true and adopted as their own. This was never a
battle of Science verses Religion, but rather a battle between
Established Science and New Science.

---








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                   Re: New Billy Meier-Style Case - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 23:31:58 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 07:29:07 -0400
Subject: Re: New Billy Meier-Style Case - Hatch


 >From: George Hansen <gphansen2001@yahoo.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 07:11:06 -0700 (PDT)
 >Subject: New Billy Meier-Style Case

 >A new Billy Meier-style UFO case is likely to attract attention
 >shortly. A Jay Solomon in Pennsylvania has a number of UFO
 >photos that are now on the web.

 >See:

 >http://www.thecomingoftan.com/default2.html

 >George P. Hansen

 >=====

Thanks for the warning.

- Larry Hatch







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                    New Classified UFO Documents Surface

From: Grant Cameron <presidentialufo@presidency.com>
Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 23:41:26 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 07:27:37 -0400
Subject: New Classified UFO Documents Surface


New Classified UFO Documents Surface
Grant Cameron
www.presidentialufo.com

Over the years the Canadian government has always had a public
relations problem regarding its involvement in the UFO mystery.
The problem is that it once ran an investigation of flying
saucers at a Top Secret level, and that it shared the
information it had gathered with high-level United States
officials.

Over the years, through carefully worded releases, the Canadian
government has attempted to turn this high level involvement
into what the government has described as a part time personal
interest by one employee who was somewhat misguided in his pro-
flying saucer beliefs.

Wilbert Smith, the top radio engineer in the Department of
Transport, had headed the study up. Following a trip to visit
with "United States officials," Smith returned to Canada writing
a TOP SECRET memo seeking funding for his proposed research. As
a part of the evidence he had been given in the states he listed
five items:

1) The matter is the most highly classified subject in the
United States Government, rating higher than even the H-bomb.

2) Flying saucers exist.

3) Their modus operandi is unknown but concentrated effort is
being made by a small group headed by Vannevar Bush.

4) The entire matter is considered by the United States
authorities to be of tremendous significance.

5) The United States authorities are investigating along quite a
number of lines, which might possibly be related to the saucers
such as mental phenomena.

While Smith was alive, statements supported the fact that
official research into flying saucers was going on. A statement
prepared for the Minister of Transport to be presented in the
House of Commons in the 1950s, for example said, "This entire
program ... is being carried on ... with official approval and
authority to make use of existing facilities."

Months after Smith died in late 1962 Mr. Dupuis, Minister of the
Department of Transport, made his final positive statement in
the House of Commons,

"Between December 1950 and August 1954 a small program of
investigation in the field of geomagnetics was carried out by
the then communications division of the Department of Transport
with a view to obtaining, if possible, some physical information
or facts which might help to explain the phenomena which was
generally referred to as unidentified flying objects. Mr. W.B.
Smith was the engineer in charge of this program."

By 1964 UFO researcher Arthur Bray received a letter that
started the denial,

"... at no time has this Department carried out research in the
field of unidentified flying objects ...The department did not
take part in any of his (Smith's) research work nor did Mr.
Smith provide the Department with any useful information arising
out of his work."

By 1968 the denial was completed. The statement that would
forever be provided for inquiries related to Smith was
completed. The key UFO sceptic at the Dominion Observatory, Dr.
Peter Millman, wrote it up.

"The project was a personal one carried out by Mr. Smith with
the knowledge of his department, but without any official
sponsorship."

Now, newly discovered classified documents have surfaced which
clearly show that the government of the early 1950s was deeply
interested and involved in the flying saucer mystery, and that
it was officially approved and monitored. Further the documents
clearly show that the later releases about these activities
being a "purely a personal hobby" by one lone employee were
carefully worded spin to distract inquiring minds.

The 43 new pages of documents were uncovered in the extensive
files of Wilbert B. Smith by York University researcher Nick
Balaskas at the University of Ottawa Archives in the Canadian
capitol. There are five documents in total. Three of the
documents are classified "secret" and two have no classification
markings. They date from March 10, 1950 to October 18, 1952.

The five documents and their highlights are as follows:

1. March 10, 1950 "Preliminary Report on Initial Experiment Geo-
Magnetic Release" classified "SECRET." This three-page document
was written more than eight months before Smith's now famous
"TOP SECRET" Project Magnet memo to his superiors within the
Department of Transport. It describes the research that was
going on that led to Project Magnet.

The object of the experiment being described in the document was
"to check qualitatively certain theoretical points concerning
the possibility of converting geo-magnetic energy into
electrical energy." It is this geo-magnetic energy that, Smith
would months later conclude, might be propelling the flying
saucers. It is also this geo-magnetic energy theory that Smith
would trade with American officials in exchange for information
they had on the flying saucers.

The conclusion of this paper was that energy had been generated
by the "collapse of the earth's field" using a "core of ferro-
magnetic material," but that more advanced equipment should be
built to more accurately measure the effect. The document can be
viewed at:

http://www.presidentialufo.com/march_50_report.htm

2. The second five-page document, undated and without security
markings, is the most interesting of the set. It ties in the
idea that "magnetic sink" can be produced and that it might
closely link into the flying saucers that were widely being
reported.

More importantly, the paper describes how Project Magnet came to
be and the reasons behind the classification of the program.

"At the time when the flying saucers first captured public
attention the writer was engaged in a part-time investigation of
the behavior of electro-magnetic fields, and it seemed just
possible that, if the saucers actually were space ships, they
might be using the very magnetic principles being studied.
Authority was requested and obtained to set up a classified
project with the Department of Transport to pursue this matter
further."

"The project was classified for several reasons. The exchange of
information with other parallel classified projects could
thereby be facilitated; scientific personnel working along
unorthodox lines prefer to work in camera, until their results
can be proven; and further-more, in the event that a new
technology should be uncovered, its implications would have to
be carefully assessed before pertinent information could be made
public."

This document can be viewed at:

www.presidentialufo.com/flying_saucer_review.htm

3. The next seven-page document is actually six different
assignment papers all classified "SECRET." They are very
technical in nature. The titles of the papers included
"Theoretical Investigation of Different Boundary Conditions in
Maxwell's Electromagnetic Equations"; "Investigations of
Mechanical Forces Associated with Electron Drift or Currents in
Solid Bodies"; "Magnetic Domain Resonance in Magnetic
Materials";  "Magnetic Wave Motion in Magnetic Materials";
"Investigation of Possibility of Magnetic Sink"; and "Single
magnetic Poles."

4. The fourth discovered document is a fourteen-page paper
titled "Project Magnet." The paper is a highly technical review
of the experiments conducted by Wilbert Smith and J. Thompson
  "to investigate as many aspects of magnetic phenomena as
possible with the object of determining whether magnetic sink
exist, domain resonance occur, and any correlations between
them."

Although this paper was not marked as classified other documents
clearly show that the activities behind Project Magnet remained
classified from December 1950 till 1979.

5. The final document in the newly discovered material is a
draft report of the "Interim Project Magnet Report" dated
October 18, 1952. It was the final version of this report that
Mrs. Murl Smith stated, "had sat on the desk of Prime Minister
Louis St. Laurent for three months" until Wilbert Smith and the
Prime Minister agreed "the time was not right" for it's release.
The copy of the final report found in the government files
remained classified well into the 1970s.



As one can see from the diagram the conclusion of the report
included the observation that the "saucers are real." Many
observations about the flight and visual characteristics were
being analyzed to determine the gap that existed with present
day physics knowledge.

This document can be viewed at:

www.presidentialufo.com/interim_magnet_report.htm


Perhaps there is a hopeful possibility here in the conquest of
outer space. Interplanetary activity may well give us planetary
peace. Once we discover Martian spaceships hovering over Earth's
air-space, we will all come together.

"How dare they threaten us like this!" we shall shout, as one,
at a really United Nations! Former Canadian Prime Minister
Lester Pearson in a speech receiving his Nobel Prize for Peace
in 1957.


--







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                     Diamond-Shaped Object Over Calgary

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 07:40:34 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 07:40:34 -0400
Subject: Diamond-Shaped Object Over Calgary

http://www.canoe.ca/CalgaryNews/cs.cs-10-04-0034.html

Diamond-Shaped Craft Sighted Over Calgary
By Melissa Ridgen

Calgary Sun

10-4-2

Area 51, move over - Deer Run may be taking over as destination
of choice for visitors from outer space.

A southeast Calgary family saw a strange sight in the sky
Tuesday evening, hours before a northern lights display danced
overhead.

Tammy Woodward's boyfriend came into their Deer Run home around
7 p.m., to get her to look at an odd object he'd spotted in the
sky.

"The sun was just going down and the sky was perfectly clear
except for this thing," said Woodward. "We saw what looked like
a small piece of really bright-white cloud but it was moving way
too fast to be a cloud," said Woodward, whose two children also
saw it.

"It was going really fast, west-northwest. It was diamond-shaped
and it was gone from sight over other houses in about 10
seconds," the 34-year- old said.

Environment Canada meteorologist Bill McMurtry is at a loss as
to what the family saw.

It could have been an aircraft, satellite or meteorite - but he
doubts it was, because the latter two aren't visible while it's
light out, and most people know a plane when they see one.

On Sept. 6, 1991, three people in the city's Monterey Park
reported three amber, diamond-shaped lights moving in the
eastern sky.

An unexplained spectacle was also witnessed in Edmonton,
according to the Alberta UFO Study Group. On Sept. 13, a person
in Edmonton saw 10 yellow-white lights moving "fast like a
fighter jet" to the northeast, then disappearing 30 seconds
later.






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                      Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Le Chevalier

From: Remy Le Chevalier <remy.lechevalier@cp.finances.gouv.fr>
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 15:59:14 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 11:39:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Le Chevalier


 >From: Gregory Gutierez <greguti@free.fr>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 19:12:37 +0200
 >Subject: Re: Symbols [UMMO]

 >I've found sources about the investigation by Claude Poher for

<snip>

 >It seems that Poher wrote a complete report for the GEPAN at the
 >time (in 1973) but

<snip>

 >Claude Poher is still alive so eventually we could contact him
 >and ask him once again about this story.


Hello List,

This seems unlikely. I understood from an interview of Poher
published in the French magazine "Phenomena" a while ago
(possibly 1998 ?) that he didn't want to be associated with UFO
research or even hear about it any more.

I think he was even asked about the subject of UMMO and didn't
want to talk about it.

Best Regards.

RL






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                         Bob Pratt's Website Online

From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA>
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 09:16:50 -0500 (CDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 11:42:02 -0400
Subject: Bob Pratt's Website Online


I haven't seen it mentioned here yet, but Bob Pratt's personal
website is now online. For many years, Pratt was an ardent
investigator for the National Enquirer tabloid newspaper, and
although we all have likely the same opinion of that paper's
style and handling of UFOs, most people don't know that Pratt's
actual investigations were thorough, detailed and susbstantive.
Even according to Bob, what was printed often bore no
resemblance to what he submitted to the editor. I have many
trascripts of his interviews with UFO witnesses, and his
subsequent write-ups, and I can say that his journalism was at a
level far above what we usually see today.

Bob's website is chock full of his stories of case investigations,
hair-raising flights over the Brazilian jungles, meetings with
extraordinary people and the way ufology developed over the years.

At the very least, it's a great autobiography of one of
ufology's most prominent advocates. How many names of regular
posters on UFO mailing lists can you find in the stories and
acknowledgements? Okay, so he spelled "Edmonton" wrong.

Bob Pratt's autobiography can be found at:

http://www.bobpratt.org




Nobody in particular






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             UFOs On Richard & Judy Ch.4 & Meridain Tonight [UK]

From: Chris Rolfe <astratech@supanet.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 11:05:11 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 11:45:36 -0400
Subject: UFOs On Richard & Judy Ch.4 & Meridain Tonight [UK]


Graham Birdsall of UFO Magazine is on the Richard & Judy
programme tonight at 5 to 6pm on Channel 4 TV [UK], talking
about the Tonbridge photo.

Chris Rolfe of UFO Monitors East Kent will be on Meridan Tonight
News programme at 6:00pm talking about CCTV footage of a
possible FT taken back in July, 1998.









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             Re: UFO Picture Causes Controversy In UK - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 12:37:45 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 16:34:10 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Picture Causes Controversy In UK - Maccabee


 >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 08:21:48 +0200
 >Subject: UFO Picture Causes Controversy In UK


 >Source: Sky News, October 5, 2002,

 >http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1066335,00.html

 >Go the site to see the photo!

 >Stig

***

 >Did Aliens Visit Britain?

**

 >This is the photograph which has caused Britain's latest UFO
 >inquiry.

 >UFO believers say it is proof of a close encounter with aliens.

 >The picture was apparently taken by a parent from Tonbridge,
 >Kent, who said he grabbed a camera after hearing his son call
 >out that there was something strange in the sky.

 >It was posted to a local newspaper by a person who gave a false
 >name.

False name - not a good start for this investigation.

Obvious crude similarity to Trent object.....






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             Re: UFOs On Richard & Judy Ch.4 & Meridain Tonight

From: Geoff Richardson <geoff@fastdog.karoo.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 18:23:22 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 17:34:26 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs On Richard & Judy Ch.4 & Meridain Tonight


 >From: Chris Rolfe <astratech@supanet.com>
 >To: ufologyinuk@smartgroups.com, editor@uforesearch.org
 >Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 11:05:11 -0400
 >Subject: UFOs On Richard & Judy Ch.4 & Meridain Tonight [UK]

 >Graham Birdsall of UFO Magazine is on the Richard & Judy
 >programme tonight at 5 to 6pm on Channel 4 TV [UK], talking
 >about the Tonbridge photo.

 >Chris Rolfe of UFO Monitors East Kent will be on Meridan Tonight
 >News programme at 6:00pm talking about CCTV footage of a
 >possible FT taken back in July, 1998.

Yet another amazing contribution to Ufology in the U.K.?

More like "utter garbage"


Geoff Richardson

-----







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                Re: Metal Orbs & Crop Circles in US? - Beatty

From: Patricia Beatty <pbeatty@nyc.rr.com>
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 13:48:57 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 17:45:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Metal Orbs & Crop Circles in US? - Beatty


 >From: Patricia Beatty <pbeatty@nyc.rr.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 17:35:25 -0400
 >Subject: Metal Orbs & Crop Circles in US?

 >[Non-Subscriber Post --ebk]

 >I'm looking for information on a 9" metal orb that was retrieved
 >at the site of a large crop circle in 1978, Illinois from a
 >farmer and his son.
 >
 >The two witnesses were repairing a roof on a building on their
 >farm and stopped to watch as three metal orbs, following a
 >distinct pattern created a crop circle. The farmer contacted the
 >USAF and told them what he had seen from his roof with his son.
 >Within an hour or so men arrived and the farmer was paid five
 >times the value of his crop to permit the USAF to burn his field
 >of oats. The farmer relinquished the metal orb to the
 >representatives on loan, telling them that when the orbs were
 >done with the pattern in the crops, one hit the other mid-air
 >and fell to the ground in the center of the crop circle.

 >I've been trying to run down information on this story for a
 >piece that I'm working on. I work for Intercontinental News
 >Media Service in DC.

 >We have two other reports of seeing these same metal orbs with
 >very good corroborating witnesses that include a group of
 >Houston Police Detectives who swore that three of these orbs
 >chased two young men in tandem all over a field one evening
 >while they watched in shock, the orbs knocking the men to the
 >ground repeatedly, diving at them, pursuing them and finally
 >flying off in a group of three when the two men lay on the
 >ground sobbing.

 >The next story came from two hostesses off of an American
 >Airline Flight between Florida and California in which three of
 >the same type of orbs came through the hull of the plane then
 >appeared to check each row for what the other witnesses clearly
 >stated was a search for someone in particular. Finally, two of
 >the orbs found two people in different areas of the plane while
 >the hostesses and one pilot who had been asked to come to
 >witness what was happening watched in terror. Two of the orbs
 >moved into the rows on either side of the plane, hovered in
 >front of the shocked passengers, appearing to communicate with
 >one another. They left the same way that they came in and
 >weren't seen again.

 >My deadline is running out and I can't even get a reply on this
 >information. Have you guys ever heard anything about these
 >circle makers?


Thank you so very much for your help. Some of the people were
able to help me immediately. They even have photos of the sites
and lots of information to help me out. I was trying to
establish a link between reality and memory. Hynek, an old
friend of mine since 1968 and Larsen had both told me the story
in the 80's, originally and I wanted to get as much together as
possible for the story I was writing.

I have a lot of information that will be coming out in my book
in a few months, PIX/MHAICA: Descent Into Bio-Metabolic Warfare.
But, I can still give you leads along the way for your help.

Thanks, again.










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               Re: Are We Really Ready For Disclosure? - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 15:05:33 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 17:47:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Are We Really Ready For Disclosure? - Velez


 >From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 18:52:23 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
 >Subject: Are We Really Ready For Disclosure?

Hi Nick,

You wrote:

 >Hi Everyone!

 >I listened to John Velez on Errol's 'Strange Days... Indeed' UFO
 >radio program about the disappointing response to the petition
 >to get the United Nations to encourage member states to release
 >all information about UFOs to the public. It reminded me of
 >something I had just read a few days earlier.

 >Going through the personal correspondence of the famous Canadian
 >investigator of flying saucers, Wilbert B. Smith, I found many
 >incredible statements which he made in his letters. One of these
 >to a Mr. Caswell dated February 23, 1959 is quoted below in
 >part.

 >"For your information _every_ nation on this planet has been
 >officially informed of the existance of the space craft and
 >their occupants from frome elsewhere, and as nations they must
 >accept responsibility for any lack of action or for any official
 >position which they may take. There is nothing more to be done
 >along these lines, and efforts in this direction is effort
 >wasted."

Maybe so, but it never hurts to try.

 >r, one wonders if the public is really ready for the revelations
 >about UFOs.

That's what the problem has been all long Nick. A 'few' have
taken it upon themselves to decide whether we (the people)
should know what is going on. When it comes to something like
this, that some other species/race is here on our world, is
something that _everyone_ should know.

If it affects us _all_ then we all have a 'right' to know.

 >Jackie Gleason was also
 >shown dead aliens by his friend Richard Nixon during the last
 >days of his Presidency

I've been hearing this one for years. Does anybody know if
there is any truth to it? I've always considered it a kind of
'urban legend.'  I'm just curious if any one knows anything
about this particular walnut.

 >and Dr. Eric Walker in his letter to
 >researcher William Steinman dated September 23, 1987 alleges
 >that four human looking ETs successfully intergrated into our
 >society and that these aliens are well known to most of us.

Hah! I know who they are...

1. Dan Quayle

2. Christopher Walken

3. Keith Richards

4. Tiny Tim (returned to Zeta Reticuli)

 >I have some reservations about Dick.  ;o)

So do all healthy, heterosexual males. Nothing to be apologetic
about.  ;o)

 >I guess the point I want to make is that if we quickly dismiss
 >such things as nonsense and too weird to accept, well, maybe we
 >may not be ready for the truth which may be stranger still.

Who decides when we will be "ready"? I've never been able to
figure out what the criteria for "ready" is. Maybe we need to
vote on it! Majority rule. It's pure speculation, but have a
feeling that more people would want to know than not.

 >What are your thoughts about having a small group of members
 >from within the ufological community or a cross-section of
 >society to be informed of the whole truth first and then have
 >them decide if the potential risks of UFO disclosure outweighs
 >the benefits to our society? Maybe this has already happened.

MJ-12?

 >Let us speculate that it was learned that aliens first came to
 >Earth aboard their spacecraft (the Moon?) many thousands of
 >years ago and now not only share our world but also played a
 >major role in our history.

 >Should such a secret continue to be kept?

No. Although it would be simpler to make the scenario one where
we simply know that we are being visited. Let's leave the hollow
Moon full of aliens theory on the back-burner for now for the
purpose of this little survey.

Regards,

John Velez

Sign the International Petition to the United Nations
for disclosure of information pertaining to UFOs.

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition






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                        Cocaine Blamed In Sees' Death

From: Kelly Peterborough <kellymcg@attcanada.ca>
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 15:41:06 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 18:42:54 -0400
Subject: Cocaine Blamed In Sees' Death


Source: The Press Enterprise - Bloomsburg, Pennsylvania

http://www.pressenterpriseonline.com/cgi-bin/liveique.acgi$rec=3D24378?front=
page3

Cocaine blamed in Norry death

By the Press Enterprise staff

NORTHUMBERLAND -- A Northumberland man whose body was found in
the woods here in August died because of cocaine, police said in
a release Friday.

While Northumberland County Coroner James Kelley would not
qualify the death as an overdose, the press release listed Todd
Sees' cause of death as "cocaine toxicity."

Police said the manner of death is accidental.

Kelley said he could not release the amount of cocaine in Sees'
blood because his death was still under investigation.

Point Township police could not be contacted Friday for further
comment about what they were investigating.

The family of Sees, 39, reported him missing on Aug. 4.
Searchers found his body in the evening of the next day.

In the past month, while police were waiting for the results of
toxicology tests, a group of UFO Web sites published anonymous
reports that a UFO may have been involved in the death.
Officials called the reports "ridiculous."

Kelley, along with Point Township Police Chief Gary Steffen and
Sgt. Seth Cotner, met with the Sees family Thursday night to
inform them of the toxicology results, police said.


c. Press Enterprise, Inc.





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                    Re: Vallee On Crop Circles - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 18:38:35 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 19:56:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Vallee On Crop Circles - Maccabee


 >From: Dave Haith <visions@ntlworld.com>
 >To: <UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 10:25:34 +0100
 >Subject: Vallee On Crop Circles

 >Hi Friends and Researchers

 >I have been sent the below article by the well-respected UFO and
 >paranormal researcher, Jacques Vallee.

 >He tells me it can be freely distributed. It has already been
 >posted on the NIDS website.

 >This may not be a popular theory for the formation of crop
 >circles and raises a thousand issues.

 >CROP CIRCLES: "SIGNS" FROM ABOVE OR HUMAN ARTIFACTS?
 >(by Jacques Vallee)

 >Some personal speculations on a fractal theme The key to
 >investigating anomalies often lies in asking the right questions
 >rather than pondering a long list of assumed answers and
 >fighting over hypotheses. The crop circles that have adorned
 >English fields in the last couple of decades are a good example
 >of this principle. Many well-intentioned "paranormal"
 >investigators and New Age enthusiasts have immediately posited
 >that the circles must be caused by Aliens, while the general
 >opinion of journalists and academics tended to state they were
 >the product of hoaxes. Indeed two retired men were featured in
 >the world media as the confessed authors of many circles. Over
 >the years several interested researchers - including this author
 >- have met with and interviewed self-described "artists" who had
 >generated some complex crop formations as a new type of display
 >where the landscape is used as a canvas to shock popular
 >consciousness and stimulate reaction. There is no question that
 >at least some of the formations - including some remarkably
 >complex ones - are their handiwork.

 >This leaves most of the formations unexplained, especially those
 >that have appeared in a very short time or under conditions of
 >very high mathematical accuracy. Drawing a bicycle or a spider
 >in a wheat field is one thing, the

I think it was the summer of 1990 when suddenly the agriglyphs
went from being mostly circular constructions (combinations of
circles, arcs, etc) to constructions that included straight
edges, lines, pathways, "key" shapes, etc.

 >Mandelbrot set of fractal geometry is quite another. When
 >sophisticated formations started appearing in the English
 >countryside several teams of UFO investigators (who came from a
 >background of soil and trace studies related to the familiar
 >imprints often left behind after sightings such as Delphos or
 >Trans-en-Provence) began to take notice. Rather than jumping to
 >conclusions about the origin and purpose of the formations they
 >drew up a list of fundamental questions that went like this:


 >(1)Is there a change in the nature of the formations over time?

 >(2)What is it, exactly, that happens to the vegetation inside
 >the affected areas?

 >(3)Is there anything special about the location of the
 >phenomenon?

 >To seek information on these topics they established a protocol
 >to gather vegetation samples and sent them to a number of
 >laboratories for microscopic studies. The results, which have
 >been discussed at meetings of the Society for Scientific
 >Exploration and other public events, have never seemed of
 >sufficient interest for the media (or, indeed, the ufological
 >mainstream) to take notice, perhaps because they conflicted with
 >the sensational nature of other hypotheses.

Collin Andrews was one of the main drivers toward a scientific
analysis. The Fund for UFO Research supporter Project Argus in
the late 1980s or early 90's (I don't recall) to gather data.
However, it wasn't until Lefty Leavengood got involved that
plant studies really began. Of course, even before that the
investigators could tell when stalks were broken and when they
weren't.... and it was the cases with unbroken stalks (how do
you bend a plant "permanently" without breaking it/) and the
cases with different "lays" (counterclockwise lay of the grain
over a region of clockwise lay, for example) that really raised
the questions.... because these by themselves ruled out the
"stick and rope" method... long before the Doug and Dave show.

 >The answers are as follows:

 >The early formations were simple circles, then circles with
 >satellites. In later years more and more sophisticated and
 >precisely-drawn geometric figures appeared.

 >Vegetation is bent because the nodes are exploded. The stalks
 >are not broken and indeed the plants are often reported to start
 >growing again.

Up to here we have a recitation of the data. Now comes the
suggested explanation.

 >All the significant formations were observed in an area in close
 >proximity to major research facilities of the British defense
 >establishment, often in controlled airspace.

 >So much for Aliens and Druids. These studies point to the crop
 >formations as the result of sophisticated electronic warfare
 >experiments conducted by defense contractors. The answer to
 >question (1) provides the first clue:

 >If you are trying to calibrate a beam, drawing a pattern on a
 >wheat field can yield precision information within the diameter
 >of one stalk over hundreds of feet, an ideal test situation.

In my opinion this form of the "Defense - Circle Connection"
is really 'Waaaay Oouttt'.

Here he is saying that the answer to the first question above
(Is there a change in the nature of the constructions as time
goes on?) is an indication of improvement British defense
technology. At first the patterns were simple.

Then they got complex.... ergo the technology improved.

As a researcher involved with military lasers (or microwave
beams) I would say that "calibrating" a beam weapon by drawing a
pattern in a grain field would be by far the LEAST likely
method. (A) they would use a "target board" or some special
device to measure beam steering accuracy, not a field of grain
and (B) if in the unlikely event they decided to use a grain
field they wouldn't use a privately owned field... they would
"grow their own".

I am, I must admit, flabbergasted that Jacques would extrapolate
from the factual presence of a military establishment set up for
electronic warfare to the use of weapons to draw pictures in
farmers' grain fields. "Electronic Warfare" does not mean beam
weapons., The terminology refers to detecting the enemies signal
transmissions and either listening in or jamming (such as radar
jamming).

 >The answer to question (2) narrows down the type of energy that
 >can be responsible, because the amount of heat radiation that
 >needs to be coupled into one node of a stalk of wheat to
 >vaporize the water content is a known quantity, as laboratory
 >tests in France and in the United States soon established.

Here he is saying that the assumed beam is heating the stalk,
and it takes a certain amount of heat energy to raise the
temperature enough to cause softening at the bottom of the
stalk.. (But too much energy would burn the plant, so a narrow
range of energies is needed.) He uses the experimental evidence
of plant softening to deduce that infrared or microwave heating
is involved... see below.

 >The answer to question (3) points to the likely authors of the
 >tests.

 >It is tempting to jump to the conclusion that some sort of
 >space-based weapon is being developed. I am reluctant to assume
 >this because of the cost involved. Even if satellites represent
 >the ultimate platform for such a weapon, which does not seem
 >obvious to me, the calibration tests can be carried out far more
 >cheaply from a conventional aircraft.

The idea of a satellite-borne laser or microwave beam that could
have the necesary power and pointing accuracy to create precise
crop constructions is... unreasonable.

It would require hundreds of kilowatts of electrical power
(perhaps megawatts) because the constructrions (agriglyphs)
would have to be "burned" into a field in a matter of seconds...
but there are no space power systems capable of handling that
level of power. Even if there were such power supplies and
microwave or laser beams they would have to have extremely
accurate pointing to create sharply delineated constructions.
However, the atmosphere causes scintillation... this could make
the beam wobble as it is drawing the outline of an agriglyph.
But agriglyph outlines are very precise.

More generally, I think the idea of something 'beaming down' and
creating an agriglyph fails for two other fundamental reasons:

A) the plants are softened near the bottom... in fact over a
short range of heights near the bottom (a few inches above the
earth), yet the heating source is presumed to come from above
creating the following problem: how to heat the bottom without
similar or greater heating oof the top (or softening of the
whole stalk).

B) Assuming one could find a way to concentrate the heat near
the bottom, what would cause the "lay" of the grain to be
anything other than randomly one way or another, or to follow
the direction of any wind at the time. Worse yet, how do you get
a "layered lay" of the crop in which the bottom layer may be
clockwise and hte upper layer counterclockwise... or, as in
some cases, stalks woven together.....

I think Jacques is correct in rejecting the satellite
alternative.

 >In those cases when witnesses on the ground have seen formations
 >in the process of being created, they have described a reddish
 >glow at ground level, with the vegetation bent over in a matter
 >of minutes.

This is the first I have heard of a "reddish glow". I wonder if
these are night time sightings. I am aware that there have been
witnesses who have said they have seen constructions appear
quickly (in daytime?).

 >This would be consistent with a beam directed at the field
 >from a hovering dirigible, painting a figure very much in the
 >same way as an electron beam 'paints' a digital image on a
 >computer screen.

Well, yes... and no.... If you had a dirigible you could have
the beam weapon close to the field (say a few miles up maybe)
and therefore wouldn't have to worry about atmospheric
distortion (a problem for the satellite based weapon).

However, you still have the problem of providing the power,
which means a heavy power source which would need a large
dirigible. The weight would be a function of the number of
kilowatt seconds or megajoules it would take to soften the
plants over a whole agriglyph, keeping in mind that the stalk is
tiny - a few mm thick - compared to the spacing between stalks -
  many centimeters - so the "efficiency of coupling" to the
stalks is low?. Then there isn the problem of getting the power
down to the ground level (a few inches above the ground) without
frying the tops of the plants... or softening the whole stalk
all the way from the top to the bottom. And then there is the
problem of the "lay". Simply heating the plants could cause them
to fall any-which- way... or the way the wind happened to be
blowing. How do you "comb" the plants into a nice circular or
linear formation?

 >From conversations I have had with the investigators involved,
 >the beam would be unlikely to be a simple infrared beam. Instead
 >a combination of laser and microwave transmitters may be
 >involved, or a form of maser.

A maser generates microwave radiation. Powerful microwaves would
probably be generated, not by a maser but by some other source
(klystron, gyrotron, etc.) A microwave antenna is then needed to
direct the microwave beam. To get a precise beam that has a
small diameter at the surface of the earth would require a
sizeable antenna (several feet in size, at least) and the
antenna would have to be steerable with great accuracy.

The addition of a laser would probably not be necessary if the
microwave beam were powerful enough. A high powered infrared
laser, such as the few weapon level lasers that exist in the
world (like 2 or 3?... and each is the size of a small house)
would fry a plant all the way from the top to the bottom.

 > Perhaps the increasingly sophisticated tests are designed,
 >precisely, to discover optimal combinations.

IMHO this is speculation based on a faulty hypothesis

 >This leaves several issues pending: Why don't witnesses see the
 >supposed hovering platforms if they simply fly over the
 >countryside? What about the "confessions" of the two retired men
 >who claimed they made the circles with a two-by-four and a piece
 >of string? And why do the experiments continue at a point where
 >the technology seems to have reached a high level of perfection?
 >I only have tentative answers to this new set of questions: Many
 >years ago I gave a lecture on UFO research at Oxford University.
 >One of the people attending, a physics faculty member, told me
 >of an interesting personal experience. His hobby was to fly
 >gliders over the English countryside. On one occasion, on a
 >bright afternoon, he was astonished to see his plane reflected
 >in a surface that appeared to be motionless in the atmosphere.

 >He actually flew around the object and determined it was a
 >perfectly reflecting cylinder. It is obvious that such a device
 >would have "low-observable" characteristics - a visual stealth
 >platform.

So Vallee is suggesting that "invisible" blimps over the field
carry high powered beams that are being "calibrated" by having
them draw complex patterns in farmers' grain.

Sorry... I don't buy that!

 >What is suspicious about the two older men's "confession" is
 >that it appeared simultaneously on the front pages of
 >international papers and on CNN the same day. Any published
 >author familiar with the difficulty of getting media attention
 >will know that it takes a very powerful public relations firm to
 >get a story to the front page of the Wall Street Journal and the
 >New York Times, Le Figaro and many other papers the same day.
 >Where did the two pensioners get the kind of clout that would
 >spin their claim around the planet? The result was
 >instantaneous: The press and, more importantly, most scientists
 >lost all interest in the story for 10 years.

This is a _good_ point... his best so far! Why didn't the D&D
"admission of guilt" just get ignored along with all the other
comments that were flying around about agriglyphs back in the
early 90's?

Is it just that the press finally found an answer "they"
liked... and, better yet, someone to interview who claimed to
have the answer? The fact that an explanation which on the face
of it is ridiculous (D&D weren't making dozens of circles each
year.... they weren't making constructions in other countries...
they broke the stalks when they stomped on them... etc...) could
be accepted by the mainstream press is, unfortunately,
_very_common_... especially in UFO related stuff.

In the New Zealand sightings case of Dec. 1978.... one story was
Venus, then the next day Jupiter, then light reflected from
birds, and light reflected from cabbages(!)... the press had a
field day with garbage explanations.

In the Japan Airlines case of Nov 1986, the FAA investigated and
concluded that the FAA ground radar didn't detect anything. The
mainstream press sucked that up and printed it without pointing
out that the FAA didn't even mention the visual sightings by the
3 crewmen, nor did the FAA mention the detection by the radar on
the plane. When CSICOP publicized the "Mars and Jupiter"
explanation the press simply parroted that explanation in
complete disregard for the detailed descriptions of the "things"
that were in front of the airplane for many minutes.... and
which reoriented them selves from one above the other to side by
side.... something Mars and Jupiter would have a hard time
doing.

The facile explanations, publicized widely, cause the press and
public to lose interest right away. (Consider the Roswell
"weather balloon" explanation as one of the earliest examples of
the press accepting the "acceptable" explanation without asking
any tough questions.) This raises the question Jacques hints
at.... are the surreptitious "forces" involved in assuring that
'cover up' explanations are widely circulated whenever there is
a really 'good' sighting?

Of course, we have the grandaddy of them all... Roswell and the
weather balloon explanation.

 >Why do the tests continue? I admit I have no good answer to
 >this. It seems farfetched to assume that they have become more
 >sociological than technological in nature, yet this could
 >provide an explanation. Soon or later the truth will be known,
 >and it can be used to discredit the community of paranormal
 >researchers who have rushed to decipher alien scripts in the
 >formations, or have hypothesized a return of the Druids, earth
 >lights or messages from Gaia without first testing the basic
 >physics of the situation. It may also be that such hypotheses
 >have been coldly planted among the New Age milieu as part of a
 >psychological warfare experiment, and that the real nature of
 >the crop formations can thus be hidden from serious attention
 >for a very long time.

The above are musings based on, in my opinion, a faulty premise.

 >Why would one need to develop such a beam? Destruction of
 >incoming missiles (or simple confusion of their electronics)
 >would be an obvious purpose, but several projects are already
 >under way to produce such weapons, notably at Boeing and other
 >defense contractors. But we may be wrong in assuming that the
 >beam itself is a weapon; it might be used simply to guide a much
 >larger amount of energy (contained plasma, or the fireball
 >created by a nuclear explosion, for example) to its ultimate
 >destination. The type of threat that is present in today's world
 >includes targets that one may not want to blow up, but rather to
 >fuse inside a fireball. Such a target might be a biological
 >laboratory, or a chemical factory, where dispersion of a
 >pathogen is undesirable.

<snip>

The above are interesting musing independent of the agriglyph
problem.







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   Oct > Oct 8

              Re: Are We Really Ready For Disclosure? - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 18:51:05 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 21:44:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Are We Really Ready For Disclosure? - Kaeser


 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 15:05:33 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Are We Really Ready For Disclosure?

 >Jackie Gleason was also shown dead aliens by his friend
 >Richard Nixon during the last days of his Presidency

 >I've been hearing this one for years. Does anybody know if
 >there is any truth to it? I've always considered it a kind of
 >'urban legend'. I'm just curious if any one knows anything
 >about this particular walnut.

Hi John-

I believe that Jackie Gleason's widow mentions this episode in a
biography of her late husband. It's only a small tangent, but
it's fairly well known that Gleason was very interested in UFOs
and reportedly had a home built in the shape of one.

Information can also be found at:

http://www.skywatch-international.org/gleason.htm

or

http://j_kidd.tripod.com/b/195.html

It is also mentioned in the following, but the links to more
detailed information appear to be broken (and may have linked to
the article above):

http://www.cosmiverse.com/paranormal081401.html

Is there any truth to the Gleason/Nixon tale? Gleason and Nixon
both had homes in Florida and played golf together as friends. I
can't imagine that Gleason would have missed the opportunity to
ask the President about UFOs, but I also can't imagine that was
possible to get a civilian into such a highly classified area.

It would seem that all the known witnesses are deceased, and it
remains an interesting tale that will probably never be
verified.

Steve








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   Oct > Oct 8



                   Re: New Billy Meier-Style Case - Woods

From: Michael Woods <mike.woods@rogers.com>
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 20:37:25 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 21:46:33 -0400
Subject: Re: New Billy Meier-Style Case - Woods


 >From: George Hansen <gphansen2001@yahoo.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 07:11:06 -0700 (PDT)
 >Subject: New Billy Meier-Style Case

 >A new Billy Meier-style UFO case is likely to attract attention
 >shortly. A Jay Solomon in Pennsylvania has a number of UFO
 >photos that are now on the web.

 >See:

 >http://www.thecomingoftan.com/default2.html

 >George P. Hansen



Hey Listers....

Oh these are convincing photos. So's the manequinn wearing
sunglasses.

Some people have too much free time.

Mike Woods







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                    Re: Vallee On Crop Circles - Hamilton

From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 01:12:12 UT
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 21:50:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Vallee On Crop Circles - Hamilton


 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 18:38:35 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Vallee On Crop Circles

 >>From: Dave Haith <visions@ntlworld.com>
 >>To: <UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 10:25:34 +0100
 >>Subject: Vallee On Crop Circles

 >>Hi Friends and Researchers

 >>I have been sent the below article by the well-respected UFO and
 >>paranormal researcher, Jacques Vallee.

 >>He tells me it can be freely distributed. It has already been
 >>posted on the NIDS website.

 >>This may not be a popular theory for the formation of crop
 >>circles and raises a thousand issues.

 >>CROP CIRCLES: "SIGNS" FROM ABOVE OR HUMAN ARTIFACTS?
 >>(by Jacques Vallee)

<snip>

 >Up to here we have a recitation of the data. Now comes the
 >suggested explanation.

 >>All the significant formations were observed in an area in close
 >>proximity to major research facilities of the British defense
 >>establishment, often in controlled airspace.

 >>So much for Aliens and Druids. These studies point to the crop
 >>formations as the result of sophisticated electronic warfare
 >>experiments conducted by defense contractors. The answer to
 >>question (1) provides the first clue:

 >>If you are trying to calibrate a beam, drawing a pattern on a
 >>wheat field can yield precision information within the diameter
 >>of one stalk over hundreds of feet, an ideal test situation.

 >In my opinion this form of the "Defense - Circle Connection"
 >is really 'Waaaay Oouttt'.

 >Here he is saying that the answer to the first question above
 >(Is there a change in the nature of the constructions as time
 >goes on?) is an indication of improvement British defense
 >technology. At first the patterns were simple.

 >Then they got complex.... ergo the technology improved.

 >As a researcher involved with military lasers (or microwave
 >beams) I would say that "calibrating" a beam weapon by drawing a
 >pattern in a grain field would be by far the LEAST likely
 >method. (A) they would use a "target board" or some special
 >device to measure beam steering accuracy, not a field of grain
 >and (B) if in the unlikely event they decided to use a grain
 >field they wouldn't use a privately owned field... they would
 >"grow their own".

 >I am, I must admit, flabbergasted that Jacques would extrapolate
 >from the factual presence of a military establishment set up for
 >electronic warfare to the use of weapons to draw pictures in
 >farmers' grain fields. "Electronic Warfare" does not mean beam
 >weapons., The terminology refers to detecting the enemies signal
 >transmissions and either listening in or jamming (such as radar
 >jamming).

<snip>

Bruce, I agree with you and just wanted to add my two cents. I
posted this response to speculations that military satellites
were behind crop formations:

It has recently come to my attention that some individuals are
advancing the idea that crop glyphs are being made by the
military (branch is unspecified) and laid down by using a laser
or maser beam from an orbiting satellite.

Aside from the waste of taxpayer expense such behavior is
explained in terms of perpetrating the concept that an alien
presence is responsible for the crop glyphs.

History has shown that the military has repeatedly denied any
evidence of extraterrestrial visitation and does not affirm it,
not even for disinformation purposes (what purpose?).

Let us think about this. A satellite is in a 100-mile orbit
around earth (an example). It is travelling at a velocity that
maintains its orbit - approximately 18,000 mph or 26,400 feet
per second so that to make a simple circle of 100 feet in
diameter, the laser would operate for a 1/264th of a second, but
NO, that would make a line across the earth. It would have to
have a beam that spread into a circle with a 50-foot radius
instantly - and that is just a simple circle.

England is usually very foggy.

The biggest issue for a free space laser is fog. While the laser beam
transmits through fog, the moisture particles are so small and dense and
like many tiny prisms to distort and dissipate the signal. This problem
makes the light with information distort and produces an error bit.

Although the liquid content of a heavy shower is 10 times that
of a dense fog, the radius of a raindrop is about 1000 times
that of a fog droplet. This is the primary reason that
attenuation via rain is 100 times less than that of fog.

The effects of snow on a laser transmission fall somewhere in
between those of fog and rain, depending on the degree of water
particles in the snow.

Even more devastating to holding your writing utensil on target
is Shimmer: This is the direct result of a combination of
factors, including atmospheric turbulence, air density, light
refraction, cloud cover, and wind. The combination of factors
will cause a similar disturbance when a laser beam is
transmitted through the atmosphere.

Then there is the matter of laser energy. The power density
required at the target site has to be precise so as not to
ignite a dry crop and yet penetrate the atmosphere. Even by
penetrating the atmosphere and attenuating below ignition
temperatures, how is the beam focused on the lower point of
stalks?

Some of these arguments also apply to masers.

What about using UAVs? More probable than satellites, but still
having problems as a hypothesis. UAVs are also in motion, though
more controlled than a satellite.

Most of these alternate hypothesis come from those who outright
state their disbelief in the ET-origin hypothesis or support
some other exotic hypotheses involving earth energies or extra-
dimensional entities.

The crop glyphs (other than the confirmed hoaxes) remain a
mystery to be further investigated, but I think it is highly
unlikely that we will find a military source behind this
phenomenon.

-Bill Hamilton









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   Oct > Oct 9



                      NAS: Lie Detectors Can Be Fooled

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 22:38:18 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 07:45:57 -0400
Subject: NAS: Lie Detectors Can Be Fooled


Of interest to the List. Over the years some skeptibunkers have
lived, and now died on polygraph results.


Source: Reuters.com

http://tinyurl.com/998aj


Lie Detectors Can Be Fooled, Panel Decides

Tue Oct 8, 2:17 PM ET
By Maggie Fox

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Lie detectors may sometimes work in
specific cases with specific questions, but they are of little
use in general screening, for government employment for example,
an independent panel said on Tuesday.

After interviewing polygraph experts at the CIA (news - web
sites), FBI (news - web sites) and other agencies, the panel of
the National Academy of Sciences (news - web sites) determined
that it is possible to fool a lie detector, especially if the
subject is being screened for general criminal or spy activity
and not for some specific act.

The academy committee, appointed at the request of the
Department of Energy (news - web sites), decided that polygraphs
cannot be relied on for mass screening of federal employees
because they can falsely suggest an honest employee is lying and
can be fooled by someone who is trained to do so.

"The US federal government, through a variety of agencies,
carries out thousands of polygraph tests each year on job
applicants and current employees, and there are inevitable
disputes that are sometimes highly publicized when someone '
fails' a polygraph test," the panel, made up of professionals
who have never worked with lie detectors, wrote in its report.

"Over 19 months, the committee held a series of meetings,
visited polygraph facilities at several government agencies, and
examined large numbers of reports and published papers," it
added. "We attempted to listen carefully to people representing
both sides in the debate on polygraph accuracy, and we then
stepped back and reviewed the evidence ourselves."

Sometimes polygraphs can work, they decided - although something
better is clearly needed.

"We conclude that in populations of examinees such as those
represented in the polygraph research literature, untrained in
countermeasures, specific-incident polygraph tests can
discriminate lying from truth telling at rates well above
chance, though well below perfection."

But the lie detector can be fooled by someone who has training -
  which, in the case of government agencies, would be precisely
the people they are trying to screen out.

"Certain countermeasures apparently can, under some laboratory
conditions, enable a deceptive individual to appear nondeceptive
and avoid detection by an examiner," the report reads.

"Overconfidence in polygraph screening can create a false sense
of security among policy makers, employees in sensitive
positions, and the general public that may in turn lead to
inappropriate relaxation of other methods of ensuring security,"
it adds.

"Its accuracy in distinguishing actual or potential security
violators from innocent test takers is insufficient to justify
reliance on its use in employee security screening in ederal
agencies."

The report noted that sometimes a person appears to be lying on
a polygraph when in fact he or she is anxious - especially if
that person is from a "socially stigmatized" group.







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   Oct > Oct 9

             Re: UFOs On Richard & Judy Ch.4 & Meridian Tonight

From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 08:45:47 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 07:48:47 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs On Richard & Judy Ch.4 & Meridian Tonight


 >From: Geoff Richardson <geoff@fastdog.karoo.co.uk>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 18:23:22 +0100
 >Subject: Re: UFOs On Richard & Judy Ch.4 & Meridain Tonight [UK]

 >>From: Chris Rolfe <astratech@supanet.com>
 >>To: ufologyinuk@smartgroups.com, editor@uforesearch.org
 >>Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 11:05:11 -0400
 >>Subject: UFOs On Richard & Judy Ch.4 & Meridain Tonight [UK]

 >>Graham Birdsall of UFO Magazine is on the Richard & Judy
 >>programme tonight at 5 to 6pm on Channel 4 TV [UK], talking
 >>about the Tonbridge photo.

 >>Chris Rolfe of UFO Monitors East Kent will be on Meridan Tonight
 >>News programme at 6:00pm talking about CCTV footage of a
 >>possible FT taken back in July, 1998.

 >Yet another amazing contribution to Ufology in the U.K.?

 >More like "utter garbage"


Pray tell Geoff

Are speaking from having seen the photo, program and video?

Or are you speaking "utter garbage"?

I personally know Chris, I personally have a copy of the FT
video, and am currently making attempts to find the source of
the photo. I have many friends who live in Tonbridge & Tunbridge
Wells, I have also investigated nearly a dozen sightings in that
area, so I know the place well.

The only thing I didn't see was the Richard & Judy show, I was
busy at work re-building a downed server and probably wouldn't
have made the effort to watch them as they annoy me intensely.

So please, define what/who/etc you mean by "utter garbage".


Regards

Sean Jones










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   Oct > Oct 9

              Re: 'Fox in Focus! UFOs: Proof of Life?' - Haith

From: Dave Haith <visions@ntlworld.com>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 10:10:13 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 08:06:58 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Fox in Focus! UFOs: Proof of Life?' - Haith


 >From: Scott Caput <scaput@bellsouth.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 10:54:16 -0400
 >Subject: Re: 'Fox in Focus! UFOs: Proof of Life?'

 >>From: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>To: <- UFO UpDates Subscribers ->
 >>Datet: Saturday, October 05, 2002 7:34 AM
 >>Subject: UFO UpDate: 'Fox in Focus! UFOs: Proof of Life?'>

 >>Source: Foxnews.com

 >>http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,64678,00.html

 >>Friday, October 04, 2002

 >>Fox in Focus! UFOs: Proof of Life?

 >>Saturday October 5 at 11 p.m. ET and Sunday, October 6 at 4 a.m. ET
 >>Hosted by Rick Folbaum

 >>From the first moment we looked up at the stars, we've wondered
 >>if there is life beyond our planet. Over the years, an entire
 >>sub-culture has grown up to study the phenomena - They call
 >>themselves "Ufologists" and Fox in Focus examines their most
 >>compelling stories and tapes from around the world. From the
 >>convincing to the bizarre, UFOs: Proof of Life? reveals both the
 >>science and the fiction behind the headlines.

 >>For those of you who would like to go even further beyond the
 >>headlines here's some additional information about one of the
 >>people featured in our special:

 >>Pamela Stonebrooke claims to have had a sexual relationship with
 >>an extra-terrestrial. Her story is that one night, she woke up
 >>and found herself making love to a gorgeous man. This man, then
 >>transformed into a reptilian being. Stonebrooke, aka the
 >>"Intergalactic Diva" is now a professional singer in the Los
 >>Angeles area and has written a book about her alien encounters.
 >>The book is called: Experiencer: A Jazz Singer's True Account
 >>of Extraterrestrial Contact.

 >>You can also find out more at Ms. Stonebrooke's Web site:
 >>http://www.intergalacticdiva.com/

 >Greetings all.

 >I'm anxiously awaiting comments about the broadcast on FOX.

 >IMHO, it appeared to be fairly balanced (as is Fox's claim). I
 >did in all honesty miss the first 20 minutes of the broadcast.


Hi Scott,

Here's a critique of the show from another List. You may find it
interesting.....

I have permission from the writer of the review for it to be
posted with his name. He's Bob VanDerClock and his email is:

almike13juno@aol.com

Bob is ex-military, an author and a hard working UFO researcher,
especially regarding Roswell.

-----

Hi Art and List,

My upcoming lecture sponsors clued me in about this show so I
watched it and taped it as well.

My pros and cons on the show:

Cons first:

Way too much emphasis on the exploitation factor...who cares how
many little green men trinkets are sold? Besides there are
capitalists looking to exploit every known form of PSI, that's a
given, so it should 've been given courtesy mention only.

The Army's Project Mogul "disclosure" was in 1994 (9/8/94 to be
exact) not 1995.

The first use of crash test dummies was in 1953 not 1954.

Poor coverage of "The Air Force's first UFO Investigation,
Project BlueBook" (wrong) and no mention of the famous Bolender
Memo (1969, just weeks before BlueBook closed ) saying that
national-security related UFO incidents (quote) "Are not part of
the BlueBook system".

I sent an e mail to FoxNews .com and ridiculed them for what
they DIDN'T tell you about Walter Haut; that an 80 year old
General Roger Ramey told Haut, years after, that the materials
found at the Roswell crash were "not from this
world"...shouldn't THAT critical anecdote have been mentioned,
given Haut's only other involvement at all was issuing 1947
press releases to the local media and becoming a cofounder of
the Roswell UFO Museum?

Fox tried to put 100 pounds into a five pound bag....covering a
tsunami of UFO topics while providing in depth detail on almost
none of them.

No mention of Colonel Corso whatsoever....seems Eisenhower's
National Security Advisor's comments on Roswell might have just
been "relevant"? No mention of the extraordinary comments of Top
Secret Canadian engineer Wilbert Brockhouse Smith, Corso's chief
Roswell contact and whose amazing 1950 Classified paper relating
to Geomagnetics was just released in its entirety only weeks
ago. No mention of Dr. Robert Sarbacher who was Smith's main US
Gov't contact on all of this. Scant mention of pilot-related UFO
encounters, some 3600 of which are documented, with more coming.

Bothering to even mention a sex-related claim from a jazz
singer...typical FOX "titillate" factor...poor judgement on the
producer's part.

No mention of Friedman, Randle, Schmidt, or Good,some of the
best UFO researchers around, and therefore bereft of their many
years of expertise on the subject.

No mention of what happened when a legal case regarding the
existence of UFOs nearly went to the Supreme Court (1983) and
how the Fed. District Court Judge, initially in favor of
disclosure, changed mid-case and supported suppression of same.

No mention of what happened when an American Professor sued the
NSA/CIA on clearly Constitutional grounds regarding disclosure
of the books on the "Black Budget" and how the entire case
somehow "switched" and ended up the NSA suing the Professor for
the right to suppress...which the NSA won, of course.

The pros;

Decent coverage of the Alien Implant problem being investigated
by Dr. Roger Leir.

Fair mention of the Roswell Museum though again too much
emphasis on their "Gift Shoppe" and not enough of what the
facility represents.

Fairly generous review of abductions, Budd Hopkins, etc.

Good mention of the Edwards AFB Incident, 1965... but why not
have Chuck Sorrells, who lived it at the time, come on and
relate his remembrances?

They covered the 1961 Hill couple's abduction case reasonably
well but in so doing, totally blew the opportunity to reveal
that Betty Hill of the famous abduction case of 1961 was given a
"Star System" chart by her captors and this module was
eventually verified completely by astronomer Marjorie Fish...
pretty important point since Betty knew about nothing of
Astronomy prior.

The telecast was in my view NOT connected in any way to
government disinformation and in that regard I praise FOX.

Generally a balanced presentation all around but I wish Philip
Klass the great debunker had been on...lately he has been
inadvertently exposing his true nature and I would've enjoyed a
few laughs at his expense.

They rightly stayed away from too much "Space Cadet-Conspiracy
Buff" stuff.

I would've liked the whole sandwich instead of about a third of
it, but the effort was ok... have seen far worse.

-----


Cheers

Dave









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   Oct > Oct 9

                   Re: Are We Really Ready For Disclosure?

From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 06:04:18 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 08:09:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Are We Really Ready For Disclosure?


 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 15:05:33 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Are We Really Ready For Disclosure?

 >>From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 18:52:23 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
 >>Subject: Are We Really Ready For Disclosure?

<snip>

 >>"For your information _every_ nation on this planet has been
 >>officially informed of the existance of the space craft and
 >>their occupants from frome elsewhere, and as nations they must
 >>accept responsibility for any lack of action or for any official
 >>position which they may take. There is nothing more to be done
 >>along these lines, and efforts in this direction is effort
 >>wasted."

 >Maybe so, but it never hurts to try.

Actually, if all nations _do_ know, then that makes the
international petition light years _more_ siginficant and
important.


Eleanor White








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   Oct > Oct 9

                     Re: Vallee On Crop Circles - Haith

From: Dave Haith <visions@ntlworld.com>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 12:56:24 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 09:45:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Vallee On Crop Circles - Haith


Below, with his permission to post, is a piece sent to me by
Montague Keen, who from 1990 to early 1994 was on the UK's
Council of the Centre for Crop Circle Studies and acted as their
scientific advisor.

-----

From: MKeen7225@aol.com
To: visions@ntlworld.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 4:34 PM
Subject: (no subject)

Interesting speculation by Jacques Vallee, but littered with
misunderstandings and dubious assumptions. Here goes:

The massive publicity accorded Doug and Dave's exploits in Sept.
1991 arose from a world exclusive claimed and staged managed by
the Today Newspaper (decd).

The Mandelbrot set, found in a field several miles south of
Cambridge, UK, in '92, was almost certainly the work of a
Cambridge maths student althouugh I (as about the only person
who was able to locate and examine it before it was combined)
got quite excited about it at the time.

"Vegetation is bent becaused the nodes are exploded. The stalks
are not broken and indeed plants are often reported to grow
again." The first statement is a misleading summary of W.C.
Levengood's work from 1990 onwards, when he found apparently
exploded microscopic pits (not to be confused with much larger,
surface stomata) in the parenchyma tissue of some nodes of grass
pants (mainly wheat and barley) from formations in Southern
England, and concluded that the plants had been struck by a
powerful force which vaporised the moisture instantaneously, and
was therefore inconsistent with a man-made hoax. Whether the
stalks are broken, and whether the plants recover, depends on
the growth stage, or degree of senescence (and hence turgidity
or brittleness) of the stems, i.e. the moisture content and
degree of lignification. Up to a certain stage in their
development, plants will normally recover and grow upwards after
crushing. Levengood's methodology and conclusions were later
challenged, chiefly by me, but the most recent discoveries, of
which Vallee is apparently unaware, look as though the old
pioneer might be vindicated after all.

The statement that all significant formations have been observed
in areas close to major defence research facilities is highly
questionable. It all depends, among other things, on what you
mean by significant. One might be forced to the desperate
hypothesis advanced by Terence Meaden in defence of his vortex
theory, that all formations bearing characteristics inconsistent
with it were hoaxes. This is to fit the facts to the theory,
not the theory to the facts. Vallee's assertion is bland, and
not supported by evidence. In any event, the implications are
that there are scores of such establishments in England, all of
them interested and involved in this highly specialised and
totally secret method of creating criminal trespass on farmers'
crops; and that these tests had been carried out furtively for
twenty years or more from invisible space ships of which there
has been neither disclosure nor suspicion.

Morever, formations have been reported from scores of countries
where even the British defence establishment's writ doesn't run.
  We don't know how many of them are mad-made on the ground, of
course, but it's pushing things to argue that they must all be
spurious because they're not within easy reach of a secret
British weapons development, research or testing establishment.

All very negative, especially since the alternative hypothesis
must be even more incredible if the everything's-a-hoax
assumption is found unacceptable. But I trust this moderate
clarification may help to confuse the issue -:)

Montague Keen

-----


Dave Haith









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   Oct > Oct 9

             Re: UFOs On Richard & Judy Ch.4 & Meridain Tonight

From: Geoff Richardson <geoff@fastdog.karoo.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 15:07:03 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 14:33:13 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs On Richard & Judy Ch.4 & Meridain Tonight


 >From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 08:45:47 +0100
 >Subject: Re: UFOs On Richard & Judy Ch.4 & Meridian Tonight [UK]

 >>From: Geoff Richardson <geoff@fastdog.karoo.co.uk>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 18:23:22 +0100
 >>Subject: Re: UFOs On Richard & Judy Ch.4 & Meridain Tonight [UK]

 >>>From: Chris Rolfe <astratech@supanet.com>
 >>>To: ufologyinuk@smartgroups.com, editor@uforesearch.org
 >>>Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 11:05:11 -0400
 >>>Subject: UFOs On Richard & Judy Ch.4 & Meridain Tonight [UK]

 >>>Graham Birdsall of UFO Magazine is on the Richard & Judy
 >>>programme tonight at 5 to 6pm on Channel 4 TV [UK], talking
 >>>about the Tonbridge photo.

 >>>Chris Rolfe of UFO Monitors East Kent will be on Meridan Tonight
 >>>News programme at 6:00pm talking about CCTV footage of a
 >>>possible FT taken back in July, 1998.

 >>Yet another amazing contribution to Ufology in the U.K.?

 >>More like "utter garbage"

 >I personally know Chris, I personally have a copy of the FT
 >video, and am currently making attempts to find the source of
 >the photo. I have many friends who live in Tonbridge & Tunbridge
 >Wells, I have also investigated nearly a dozen sightings in that
 >area, so I know the place well.

 >The only thing I didn't see was the Richard & Judy show, I was
 >busy at work re-building a downed server and probably wouldn't
 >have made the effort to watch them as they annoy me intensely.

 >So please, define what/who/etc you mean by "utter garbage".


I was not referring to a programme concerning Chris - I did not
even post the comment to relate to Chris.


Regards


Geoff









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   Oct > Oct 9

                           Latest From Rich Dolan

From: Richard Dolan <keyhole@rochester.rr.com>
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 14:03:07 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 14:38:36 -0400
Subject: Latest From Rich Dolan


Greetings all,

It has a been several months since I last updated my website.
Sorry, but once every few months seems to be the best I can do
these days. The main news is in the form of a linked article:

http://keyholepublishing.com/Walking%20A%20Tightrope.htm

entitled "Walking A Tightrope". This article continues some
themes I discussed in a previous piece, "What Are They?" This
time, I discuss some of the dangers we face as a civilization
over the next twenty years; dangers which could well result in
an infrastructure collapse. If we can hang on, however, the
development of advanced machine intelligence will give us a very
wild ride indeed. Either way, the civilization we have now will
be unrecognizable - within the next generation or two. Big
changes are coming. There are some relevant UFO themes here, as
well. This article will appear in the December/January 2003
issue of UFO Magazine.

http://www.ufomag.com/

To read the article and the rest of my website, click here:

http://keyholepublishing.com

Please feel free to respond with your own thoughts on this.

The other news is that I will be appearing on the Sci Fi channel
this Friday, October 12 for the new "In Search Of ..." series,
at 10 p.m. EST (although you should check your local listings
for other possible times). This interview was originally taken
in June of 2001, intended for the FOX network. FOX decided
against it at the eleventh hour, and the show sat for a year
until Sci Fi purchased all 8 episodes. I don't know whether any
new ones will be shot.

Overall, I was happy with the interview, as I remember it, but
do recall that the producers asked me several leading and
sensationalistic questions, as you might expect. I don't expect
to be quoted out of context (not too badly, at any rate), but
frankly, I am curious how they will portray what I said to them
about the concealment of UFO information within the classified
world.

In case you're wondering, Leonard Nimoy is _not_ the host of
this version; people who watch the X-Files, however, will easily
recognize Mitch Peleggi. Anyone who saw the premier episode last
week will notice that it has a decidedly FOX look and feel to
it.

I will be also appear on the Sci-Fi channel for a two-hour
documentary on the Roswell controversy. This will appear a total
of 8 times, I believe, starting on November 22 at 8 p.m. This
was a very professionally done documentary, from what I observed
at the studio. A high caliber group of people was involved in
this every step of the way.

Finally, I'll be in New Jersey to attend a UFO conference
(Bordentown) during this coming weekend and will be doing a book
signing at the Barnes & Noble book store in Clifton, NJ on
Monday, October 14 between 4 and 7 p.m. If you're in town, stop
by!


Best regards,

Rich Dolan








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                   Math vs. Moore [was: Rudiak vs. Moore]

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 01:52:31 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 14:45:26 -0400
Subject: Math vs. Moore [was: Rudiak vs. Moore]


 >From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 19:51:21 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Rudiak vs. Moore - Fleming

 >>From: Bruce Hutchinson <bhutch@grassyhill.com
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 19:12:58 -500
 >>Subject: Rudiak vs. Moore

 >>Dear Listerians, Dave Rudiak, and Readers;

 >>(Tim Printy, who did the lion's share of research and writing up
 >>the work cited below, is not a member of this List. As I had a
 >>small hand in putting the essay together, Tim asked me to write
 >>up this announcement.)

 >>A few weeks ago, David Rudiak published on his web site the
 >>results of his investigation into Prof Charles Moore's
 >>evaluation of NYU Flight #4, and especially Moore's contention
 >>that what Mac Brazel found, and Major Jessie Marcel brought back
 >>to the Roswell AAFB, was probably the remains of this balloon
 >>train and its radar reflectors. Rudiak's study focused on a
 >>chart of wind data published in the book co-authored by Moore
 >>("UFO Crash at Roswell; The Genesis of a Modern Myth") and a
 >>flight path plot Moore developed from this table.

 ><snip

 >Hmm. Printy claims that the wind velocity table:

 >TIME  MPH
 >=====  ===
 >83.4  38
 >95.5  20
 >125.5  17
 >166.8  14

 >should really be interpreted as:

 >TIME  MPH
 >====  ===
 >83.4
 >    20
 >95.5
 >    17
 >125.5
 >    14
 >166.8

 >The velocities would apply for the elapsed time between two
 >successive time entries according to Printy's interpretation.
 >But what happened to the velocity entry (38 mph) for the first
 >time in his example, 83.4 minutes after launch? Well, it would
 >have to apply to the elapsed time from whatever the immediately
 >preceding time entry was up to 83.4 minutes after launch. But
 >what about the entry for time = 0? If there was one, it would
 >just have to be thrown away,

Lan,

You've immediately gone to the critical mathematical issues that
Printy and Hutchinson skipped. Everything else from
Printy/Hutchinson Never-Say-Ill-of-a-Fellow-Debunker Productions
is just blowing smoke.

Moore's table for Flight #4 does indeed have a first number and
pushing everything back, as Printy does, pushes it right off the
table (Table 5 in Moore's book). It's hard to know if Moore
actually threw the number away, because even Printy can't
reproduce Moore's first few numbers. Some more mathematical
weirdness is going on at the beginning of the table.

 >I haven't seen the actual table Moore used, but unless there is
 >some explicit statement to the contrary, any engineer would
 >automatically assume these are measured or estimated values of
 >velocity at the corresponding times stated, and the velocity for
 >the time period between two consecutive entries would be the
 >average velocity for the two entries. It actually may be more
 >complicated than that since the wind directions also have to be
 >taken into consideration, but the conditions would still be
 >interpolated between consecutive entries.

That's the way Brad Sparks and I independently ran the
calculation. It's the only sensible way given the way the table
is set up, and it avoids corrupting Moore's own data, the way
Moore/Printy do by pushing everything back. The corruption of
the data the "Moore/Printy way" is detailed further below.

 >If there _is_ a
 >velocity entry for time = 0, then Rudiak was correct. If not,
 >then Printy would probably be correct. But given the information
 >provided so far, it appears that Rudiak's interpretation is
 >thoroughly conventional while Printy's interpretation is, um, novel.

There are far more serious problems introduced than just the
first data point being tossed out. All Printy did was (mostly)
reproduce Moore's faulty calculation and then crow that this
vindicated Moore. Printy never demonstrated that the calculation
was done properly to begin with. It's not.

Moore built his table for Flight #4 out of two sets of basic
wind data. One was the winds determined from an Orogrande
weather station 32 miles south of Alamogordo. However, this only
went to 46,000 feet. So Moore spliced in wind data from Flight
#5 the next day in the upper atmosphere between 46,000 and
60,000 feet. I have no major problem with that. You go with what
you got.

The upper atmospheric region is the important one, because it is
here that the winds suddenly shift direction. This is vital to
Moore's model. It is also vital to understand where Moore went
wrong here, because it determines where and when the balloons
made their key turn during their ascent phase.

Pushing the data points back one causes the balloons to turn
early. Since Moore's previous data point was 30 minutes before
the indicated turn point in Moore's table, this has the effect
of shaving half an hour off of Flight #4's ascent trajectory in
the upper atmosphere. (Hutchinson/Printy refer to this as "the
missing 30 minutes" and claim it never was. But oh yes, it did
exist!)

By doing this, Moore shaves a big chunk of mileage off the
ascent trajectory and forces an early turn. This is how he
ultimately gets his balloons to the ranch. Without the early
turn, the balloons take a totally different trajectory and
overshoot the crash site by about 17 miles, even by Moore's own
model, as I plotted on my Web site. That's why I labeled Moore's
trajectory a falsified trajectory and accused him of hoaxing his
own model.

It is _absolutely provable_ that Moore's early turn point is
bogus. The proof is in Moore's Table 2, where he reconstructs
the Flight #5 data and back-calculates the wind speeds and
directions from the position and time information. Here's a
snippet of the table right at the beginning and in the critical
region above 46000 feet showing the interpolated wind data:

Time  Altitude   Wind Spd  Wind dir
(min)  (feet)    (mph)    (deg)
  0    4,069
             15     240
10    12,000
             48     231
14    14,500
<............>
86    46,500
             63     259
93    48,700
             65     264
99    51,000
             38     267
105   52,200
             17     270
135*   53,700              * Turn point on Mogul graph
             9     144
150   54,500
             9     115
180   55,400

Here are the key points to notice in the table:

1. The way Moore set the table up, he is clearly interpolating
wind speed and direction in the FORWARD direction between one
data point and the NEXT (not previous) data point. There's
nothing to debate here. That's just the way he did it.

2. Go to the 135 minutes data point marked with the asterisk *.
On the original Mogul trajectory plot, this is clearly marked as
the turn point. Moore has this occurring at 53,700 feet, a
critical point when we get to his Flight #4 model below. Note
how the wind direction swings from an azimuth of 270 degrees to
144 degrees. The 144 deg. direction where the balloon turns
starts at 135 minutes and carries through until the NEXT data
point at 150 minutes.

However, as we shall see below, Moore pushes this turn BACK to
the previous point in his Flight #4 table instead of carrying it
FORWARD, as he does in his Flight #5 table. This is where "the
missing 30 minutes" comes from.

Now lets compare Moore's Flight #4 and #5 table data side by
side to see where Moore (and Printy) screwed up big time.

     Flight #4        Flight #5
Time  Alt. spd dir  Time  Alt Spd  Dir
-------------------------------------------------
  79.2 49213  66 242   93  48700 65 264
  83.4 52000  38 242   99  51000 38 267
  95.5 52100  20 242  105  52200 17 270
125.5 53700  17 144  135* 53700  9 144 <==Turn point Flt. 5
166.8 54500  14 115  150  54500  9 115
231.6 57000  10 100  247  57000 11  82
317.3 58000  10  80

Unlike with his Flight #5 table, Moore did not show his wind
speeds and directions BETWEEN points. Instead his Flight #4
table has them listed straight across from the time and altitude
values, as I listed them above. Therefore, that's the way I also
listed them for Flight #5. But remember, in the 46,000+ foot
region, Moore was definitely interpolating FORWARD between data
points for #5. Now note the following points:

At the 53,700 feet level, notice that the way Moore set up his
Flight #4 table, the turn point where the winds abruptly change
direction is listed at the exact same altitude and is given the
exact same wind direction (144 degrees) as that for Flight #5.
Also note the nearly exact correspondence in wind speeds below
this altitude, and the general correspondence in wind direction
above this level (though Moore has a big gap between 54,500 and
57,000 foot levels in his #4 table, whereas #5 has additional
values in there.

Next remember that for Flight #5, Moore was INDESPUTABLY
interpolating FORWARD. Therefore the turn started at 53,700 and
the calculated wind direction carried forward to 54,500 feet.

Now what's the _logical thing_ to assume here in interpreting
the Flight #4 data? Obviously the turn should also be a
occurring at 53,700 and also carried FORWARD to 54,500 feet,
just like for Flight #5. Like Flight #5, Moore has his #4 winds
changing at 53,700 feet, uses the exact same new direction
value, and has even almost matched up the time of flight values
(though shaving 10 minutes off of Flight #4).

Now any idiot can see that this is true. But we are not dealing
with mere idiots here. We are dealing with debunkers.

According to that genius Tim Printy and his PR stooge Bruce
Hutchinson, it was I who screwed up and read the table wrong.
The data points should all have been pushed back one. In other
words, Printy is claiming the table should really have been read
like the following:

   Flight #4          Flight #5
Time  Alt. spd dir  Time  Alt Spd  Dir
-------------------------------------------------
  79.2 49213  38 242   93  48700 65 264
  83.4 52000  20 242   99  51000 38 267
  95.5 52100  17 144  105  52200 17 270
125.5 53700  14 115  135* 53700  9 144 <==Turn point Flt. 5
166.8 54500  10 100  150  54500  9 115
231.6 57000  10  80  247  57000 11  82
317.3 58000  10  80

Now again, any idiot can see that this is wrong and destroys the
obvious correspondence between Flight #4 and #5 data. The speed
and direction values don't match up anymore. The whole table is
thrown completely out of synch.

According to Printy (and Moore), the turn occurs at 95.5 minutes
at a completely different altitude of 52,100 feet, with the wind
direction value carried forward to 53,700 feet, instead of the
way Moore REALLY did it for Flight #5 of the turn starting at
53,700 feet with the interpolated direction being carried
forward to 54,500 feet.

This absolutely PROVES that Moore did the calculation wrong. In
pushing back that critical turn point, Moore shaved 30 minutes
off the ascent trajectory (the "missing 30 minutes") and forced
an early turn. Without doing this, he can't get his little lost
Mogul to the ranch. The balloons badly overshoot his desired
crash site. The "correct" trajectory (that is calculated
correctly) has the balloons missing by 17 miles.

And that isn't the only thing horrifically wrong with Moore's
"fuzzy math." Below is a table for Flight #4 derived directly
from Moore's Table 5 showing the wind direction and speed values
during ascent ("rise") vs. those for descent ("fall").

Toward the left are the values as printed in Moore's table, if
you read the table in the reasonable way of straight across the
rows. For easier comparison, I've reflected the table so that
the descent wind that the descent values line up at
corresponding altitudes with the ascent values. Wind directions
are side by side as are wind speeds for easier comparison.

It is very obvious looking at this data that Moore set up the
table so that it was perfectly symmetrical. Wind data as the
balloons go up exactly matches the data as they go down at each
altitude

Now what happens if we calculate the table by pushing _all_ data
points back by one, the way Printy claims is the "right" way so
that he can match Moore's trajectory? This is shown in the data
to the right.

(To clarify some possibly confusing points, pushing all data
back one means that the rise values get pushed back to the
previous _lower_ altitude (therefore in the table below they
move _up_ one notch), while the fall values move back to the
previous _higher_ altitude value (therefore they move _down_ in
the table to the next data point because the table of descent
values is reflected back on itself)

Now jump immediately below the table for comments as to the
implications of this shift.

    Table 5 as written          Shift Wind Data Back One
  Altitude    Wind Dir  Wind Speed  Wind dir.  Wind Speed
  Rise  Fall  Rise Fall  Rise Fall  Rise Fall  Rise Fall
  4069      197      9      236     12
  4921  5900   236  236  12  12   242     15
  6562  6562   242  242  15  15   247  236  23  12
  8202      247     23      242     17
  9843  9843   242  242  17  17   219  242  32  15
13123 13123   219  219  32  32   225  242  38  17
16404 16404   225  225  38  38   225  219  54  32
19685 19685   225  225  54  54   242  225  46  38
22966 22966   242  242  46  46   225  225  52  54
26247      225     52      225     54
29528 29528   225  225  54  54   242  242  44  46
32808 32808   242  242  44  44   242  225  53  54
36089      242     53      242     58
39370 39370   242  242  58  58   242  242  83  44
42651 42651   242  242  83  83   242  242  79  58
45932      242     79      242     66
49213 49000   242  242  66  66   242  242  38  83
52000 52000   242  242  38  38   242  242  20  66
52100      242     20      144*     17
53700 54000   144* 144*  17  17   115  242  14  38
54500      115     14      100     10
57000 57000   100  100  10  10    80  144*  10  17
58000       80     10       80     12
60600       80     12       80     12
60700 60750   80  80  12  12    80  100  12  10

OK, here we are about the effects of the Moore/Printy data
shift:

1. Obviously the symmetry of the table is now completely
destroyed. The wind data on rise and fall no longer corresponds.
This is another example of how Moore's incorrect calculation
corrupted his own data, whereas the way Brad Sparks and I ran
the table, we were actually preserving the integrity of Moore's
data. Any fool can see the Moore way is wrong, but apparently
not Printy/Hutchinson.

2. Now look at the turn points marked with asterisks *. At the
left they have exact correspondence with nearly the same
altitudes, 53,700 feet on rise vs. 54,000 feet on descent (this
also correspond to the Flight #5 turn point of 53,700 feet, as
discussed before). But look at what happens at the right when
all the data points are pushed back one. The ascent turn gets
pushed down to 52,100 feet whereas the descent turn rises to the
next data point at 57,000 feet. In an e-mail forwarded to me
where Hutchinson and Printy were plotting how they were going to
get me, Printy scratches his head and says he can't figure out
why Moore doesn't have the rise and fall turn values match, but
he was sure Moore had a "good reason" for doing this. Printy is
so mathematically clueless he can't see the obvious right under
his nose. The reason they don't match up is because he and Moore
bogusly pushed the data back. Moore has again corrupted his own
model.

3. As Lan Fleming pointed out, pushing the data back one throws
out the first data point in the table at time 0 when the
balloons are on the ground.

SUMMARY:

Here's a quick checklist of all the things that are
mathematically wrong with the way Moore and Printy calculate
Moore's table by pushing all data points back one.

* The first data point is thrown out.

* The symmetry of Moore's wind data during rise and fall is
destroyed. Equivalent wind data get's pushed to lower altitudes
during rise and higher altitudes during fall. One consequence of
this is that the rise and fall turn points for his model Flight
#4 no longer match up.

* Moore calculated his Flight #5 wind data forward from one data
point to the next one. Moore incorporates this same data into
his #4 model but pushes it backward, again throwing everything
out of synch. Thus at the critical turn point, Moore has the #4
and #5 turn altitudes and wind data matching if he doesn't push
the data back. But when he pushes the data back, #4's turn goes
to a lower altitude and other wind data previously corresponding
between #4 and #5 no longer correspond.

The fact that Moore definitely _forward_ interpolated his Flight
#5 wind data, and then took the same data and interpolated
_backward_ from the same data points absolutely proves that the
table should never have been treated this way. This is on top of
the fact that the table wind data symmetry and correspondence
becomes completely corrupted as does the correspondence Moore
set up between Flight #4 and #5.

In contrast, the way Brad Sparks and I were running the table
used standard scientific practices of interpolating data points.
Nothing was pushed back, no data points were thrown out, Moore's
own Flight #5 method of interpolating forward between data
points was kept, and all table symmetries and correspondence
were maintained. This was obviously the RIGHT way to handle the
data. We actually remained true to Moore's own data, whereas
Moore corrupted it.

These points I consider to be absolutely irrefutable. Math is
different than mere opinion. There are logical rules and things
can actually be _proven_. Moore's calculation is definitely
mathematically bogus as is his resulting trajectory, exactly as
I stated on my Web site.

Whether this was deliberate hoaxing on Moore's part, as I
asserted on my Web site, or unbelievably crappy math on the part
of a trained scientist like Moore is unimportant. Moore simply
did it wrong. And so did Printy rushing to Moore's defense.

Hutchinson and Printy accuse me of character assassination. But
I am just the messenger here pointing out that the emperor has
no clothes.

The mathematical arguments proving Moore wrong are unassailable.
They cannot refute one word of what I wrote above. The honorable
thing for them to do is retract their poorly-thought out
assertions that I did it wrong and admit that Moore is the
guilty party here and that his "calculated" trajectory is wrong.

But is there honor amongst debunkers? I've never seen it.
Instead watch how they try to take the discussion off on
irrelevant tangents instead of addressing the key points above.

E.g., Printy crows he figured out how Moore did his
"calculation" whereas I didn't completely figure it out. This
somehow makes me "wrong" and Moore "right."

In other words, I couldn't figure out how Moore was getting 2 +
2 = 3 instead of getting 2 + 2 = 4. Printy is arguing that he
figured out how Moore got 2 + 2 = 3, therefore 2 + 2 = 3. Such
mathematical and logical stupidity immediately qualifies Printy
for the Pelican Science Hall of Shame.

Obviously the real issue isn't whether I could figure out
somebody else's crappy methodology. The real issue is that
Moore's methodology is completely wrong and his resulting
"calculated" trajectory "exactly" to the Foster Ranch is
thoroughly bogus.

David Rudiak








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                    Re: Vallee On Crop Circles - Roberts

From: Andy Roberts <aj.roberts@blueyonder.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 16:06:23 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 14:46:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Vallee On Crop Circles - Roberts


 >From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 01:12:12 UT
 >Subject: Re: Vallee On Crop Circles

Bill wrote,

 >England is usually very foggy.

All the time - you can barely see the streets paved with gold
through it - and trying to find a respectable hot chestnut
seller can be hell in those pea-soupers.

Bill - it is _rarely_ foggy in England. I can't recall a single
day's fog in the last two years here. Too many Sherlock Holmes
and Dickens books methinks!


Happy Trails

Andy








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                        Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Bourdais

From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 18:20:17 +0200
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 15:32:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Bourdais


 >From: Gregory Gutierez <greguti@free.fr>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 00:15:27 +0200
 >Subject: Re: Symbols [UMMO]


 >>From: Edoardo Russo <edoardo.russo@tiscali.it>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 18:09:01 +0200
 >>Subject: Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Gonzalez Manso


Hello Gregory and the List,

You wrote:

 >I require the right to be intrigued and captivated by this work.
 >And thus the right of trying to find who really wrote these
 >letters (a bunch of writters? Pena alone? Pena then his
 >followers? Someone else? Ummits for the planet Ummo, at the end,
 >why not!).

<snip>

 >And that's why I do question the "Jordan Pena did it"
 >explanation: did he have the talent to do this alone or even
 >with friends? I was serious when I said I wanted to know the
 >biography of this man! What he did, what he published, what were
 >his own beliefs and his fights? I want to know if the content of
 >the letters actually fit the character and personality of Pena
 >as we could picture it throught his works and activities.


I have quoted already (and you must have read me) the book of
Jean Pollion in which he reveals the contents of a letter
written in 1998 by Jordan Pena to the Spanish specialist of Ummo
Ignacio Darnaude. Pollion got a copy of the letter, in which
Pena confesses that he had "technical and financial help from a
North-American organization" (p. 97 of the book).

Pollion tries to minimize this new confession by stressing that
he contradicts himself, having claimed in 1993 that he had acted
alone. This is funny because his first confession had been
dismised by the Ummo fans, arguing that he could not have
written all the letters alone.

Actually, everybody guessed that, but all what is known about
Ummo and Pena confirms his main role in the hoax!

Here are two references of interestting revelations on Jordan
Pena, for those who, like Gutierez, want for more information on
Pena. The first one is an article by Spanish ufologist Manuel
Carballal, which was published by Scott Corrales in his review
"Inexplicata". Its title:

"The Ummo Affaire: Sects, Saucers, Sex and Secret Services"

It is on the Inexplicat web site:

http://www.inexplicata.com/samizdat/winter97/ummo_affaire.html

According to this author, Pena was connected to the Spanish
secret services SECED and CESID. He quotes Javier Sierra as
having a similar opinion. If true, it is not necessarily in
contradiction with Pena's confession (secret services often work
together, don't they?).

In the same text, you will learn how Spanish ufologists
discovered in 1988, by pure chance, the friendship between
Jordan and his accomplice Ortuno, who admitted it.

Another interesting text was written by Scott Corrales and was
published in the "Ohio UFO Notebook" Number 22, Year 2001. The
title: "People are strange: Unusual cults examined"

A good part of it is devoted to another hoax of Jordan Pena,
called the "Pirophos" cult. See the paragraph:

"Pirophos, UMMO's Little Brother"

It was a sort of psycho-social experiment imagined by Pena to
take the measure of human credibility.

Pena succedeed in convincing a number of people of the existence
of a "Great God Pirophos", by producing before them a strange
blue light in a dark room.

Jordan Pena explained later to an interviewer that it was "a
basic yet uncommon triboluminescent phenomenon which requires
the use of habitual and easily digestible substances".

The funniest point is that Pena had later a hard time explaining
to some of the believers (not all) that it was a hoax: they
would not believe it!

BTW, Scottt, if you read this, could you confirm the story to
the List?

The same with Ummo: some people still "want to believe"!

You also wrote:

 >But on the other hand, I think the Ummit case doesn't need the
 >ufo community in order to survive. Look at the book by Jean
 >Pollion in which a whole chapter is dedicated to "Ummo and the
 >ufologists" (Pollion is very critical about ufologists). The
 >books by Jean-Pierre Petit, in the 90s, are also quite negative
 >about the ufologists. Ummologists don't appreciate ufologists
 >and ufologists don't like ummologists.

Yes, Pollion is full of contempt for ufology and ufologists
in his book. He makes clear that he is far above the lot.

For instance:

Page 27: "A litterary style of treatment of information was
born: ufology. Fortunately, the subject exhausted itself".

In his chapter 3, "Ummo and Ufology", Pollion contends that we
still don't know with certainty if we deal with material
phenomena, or only optical, or "parapsychological, or unkwown
psychological actions in the head of witnesses." (p 101) He
dismisses even classic cases such as Trans-en-Provence and
"L'Amarante" in France (thoroughly studied, and confirmed by the
official GEPAN in the 80's).

And he excludes, of course, a case like Roswell (p 101), and
abductions as well:

"I exclude the "abductions", the nature of which belongs more,
in my opinion, to psychological disorders" (p 103).

Pollion explains that he got involved in ufology by reading the
book of Jean-Pierre Petit about Ummo, After that he spent all
his free time studying Ummo, and it is clear that he has studied
little else than Ummo, regarding Ufos.

And now the Gutierez confession :

 >Compared to the huge popular success of Roswell,
 >the Ummo case is a little piece of shit. But
 >I find it far more interesting, The Ummo story is better
 >written, thanks to the author :)

Gregory, The Roswell Case is not a "story".


Gildas Bourdais








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               Re: Are We Really Ready For Disclosure? - Clark

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 12:06:16 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 15:37:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Are We Really Ready For Disclosure? - Clark


 >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 18:51:05 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Are We Really Ready For Disclosure?

 >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 15:05:33 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: Are We Really Ready For Disclosure?

 >>Jackie Gleason was also shown dead aliens by his friend
 >>Richard Nixon during the last days of his Presidency

 >>I've been hearing this one for years. Does anybody know if
 >>there is any truth to it? I've always considered it a kind of
 >>'urban legend'. I'm just curious if any one knows anything
 >>about this particular walnut.

 >I believe that Jackie Gleason's widow mentions this episode in a
 >biography of her late husband. It's only a small tangent, but
 >it's fairly well known that Gleason was very interested in UFOs
 >and reportedly had a home built in the shape of one.

Jackie Gleason was indeed a UFO buff. He also had a keen
interest in psychic phenomena. His views, while sympathetic,
were also hard-headed, and he was not a credulous enthusiast.
(See, for example, the amusing account in Long John Nebel's The
Way Out World concerning Gleason's confrontation with contactee
George King.) He subscribed to two magazines with which I have
been associated, Fate and International UFO Reporter.

In the latter context, I have a small anecdote related to the
above crashed-saucer tale. One day in the mid-1980s, when CUFOS'
office was still in Glenview, Illinois, and (the now-deceased)
Sherman Larsen ran it, someone from Gleason's office called to
inquire about the status of JG's IUR subscription. After digging
out the requested information, Larsen couldn't resist asking
about the story that Nixon had shown Gleason alien bodies.
Gleason's spokesman said that was a fiction that an ex-wife had
made up to get attention and sell her book.

On the other hand, one of Gleason's biographers claims that it
was probably a tall tale JG concocted to tell his wife, to
explain away a tryst with one of his girl friends.

For a number of reasons, I find the story pretty hard to
believe. It seems highly unlikely that even a President could
bring an unauthorized civilian into a secure site holding
secrets of the alleged magnitude. Since no independent evidence
seems to exist and the source of the anecdote is of uncertain
reliability, the story should be regarded, in my judgment, as
little more than yet more saucer folklore.


Jerry Clark








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               EMBLA 2002 - Hessdalen Optical & Ground Survey

From: Christoffer Walther <cw@r00t.dk>
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 20:05:07 +0200
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 15:39:20 -0400
Subject: EMBLA 2002 - Hessdalen Optical & Ground Survey


Massimo Teodorani, Ph.d astrophysicist has released his
report 'EMBLA 2002 - An Optical and Ground Survey in Hessdalen'.

This report presents the results from the August 2002 field
expedition in Hessdalen, Norway, a joint collaboration between
Italian and Norwegian scientists in order to study the
unidentified light phenomenona reoccuring in the valley.

The high-energy plasma hypothesis has been considerably weakened
from this years optical measurements and analysis of light
distribution, which suggests two possible interpretations:

1) A silicon electro-heated ball-lightning -like 'lightball'
which can optically simulate a solid (object).

2) A uniformly illuminated solid (object).

Also, results from ground analysis where the light phenomena has
been observed close to the ground is presented. Very light above
normal radioactive detection could be made, target sample was
taken from this source and analysis revealed the presence of a
perculiar and somewhat anomalous spheroidal iron particle.

The complete report can be found at:

http://www.hessdalen.org/reports/EMBLA_2002_2.pdf

For more information:

http://www.hessdalen.org
http://www.itacomm.net/PH/


References:

http://www.orbwatch.com
http://www.rense.com/general27/6months.htm
http://www.zeitlin.net/OpenSETI/Docs/EuroSETI2002_OSI.htm








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                  D.C. F-16 Scramble - Unfinished Business

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 13:53:49 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 15:45:27 -0400
Subject: D.C. F-16 Scramble - Unfinished Business


This brief report may provide some closure to some questions
that I have previously raised regarding the flare deployment
possibility in relation to the July 26th scramble of F-16
fighter jets in pursuit of an unidentified radar target
approaching the restricted flight zone around Washington D.C.

I had previously informed that military jets will sometimes
deploy flares for training purposes, and these flares are
frequently mistaken for UFOs. It was my suspicion that flares
may have been procedurally deployed by the returning pilots on
July 26, causing the UFO sightings reported around the 1:00 a.m.
time frame near Waldorf, Maryland. I offered a vague
recollection that pilots may be required, for safety purposes,
to dump their flare load prior to landing for safety purposes.

Two E-mail questions regarding the Washington D.C./UFO Incident
of July 26, 2002 were transmitted to public relations officer
Lieutenant Colonel Phyllis E. Phipps-Barnes of the DC Air
National Guard. The initial communication, dated August 22 and a
second electronic request for information dated August 30 were
left unanswered by Lt. Col. Phipps-Barnes, who offered no reply
to my polite inquiry.

Lt. Col. Phipps-Barnes was asked if she could determine if 1).
the 2 F-16 jets involved in the July 26th scramble were equipped
with countermeasure flares and 2) did the July 26th pilots
deploy flares at any time during their scramble and/or before
their return to base.

After an extended period of time in which my inquiry was left
unanswered by Lt. Col. Phipps-Barnes, I placed a phone call
around 4:00 p.m., Tuesday, October 8, 2002 to the DC Air
National Guard at 202-685-9862 and spoke with Public Affairs
Officer Captain Smith.

I explained to Captain Smith that I sought to ascertain if the
UFO sightings as claimed by the Waldorf, Maryland citizenry
might be due to flares deployed by the military jets. I asked if
he could verify that such a policy or procedure might be in
place requiring operational flights to jettison their flare-load
before landing.

"I don't know any such procedure," Captain Smith said. "I've
been out there when they come back in with flares fully loaded."

I again asked Captain Smith if he is certain if there is no
official or unofficial policy to jettison countermeasure flares
for safety purposes and he struggled to think of a viable
answer, saying: "I've always been understanding that they always
have the flares, but I'll check into that and get back to you."

Captain Smith took my name and phone number after saying he
would check into the possibility. I waited for his call back but
no return call was made.

The following afternoon (Wednesday, October 9), I placed a
follow-up phone call to Captain Smith, hoping he had some
additional information to convey. The Captain again answered the
call and said that he did make some inquiries.

"I went to our office next door, staffed by Air Guard personnel,
and it's not necessarily true that pilots will drop flares in
the manner you suggest," he said. "It's not a standard thing for
them to discharge flares when returning."

When asked if he had conferred with the actual pilots involved
in the July 26th scramble, Captain Smith said: "I wasn't able to
get in touch with the pilots that were there, but it's not
something I see them routinely doing."

Capatin Smith also said he would be unable to think of any
particular reason the July 26th pilots would have deployed
flares during their mission.

"Those flares are for one intended purpose," he said, "and I
don't see them arbitrarily discharging flares over a populated
area and at a low elevation for just any purpose."

Captain Smith was thanked for his input and I asked him if he
still had my E-mail address or if I could leave it with him in
the event that any additional information surfaced.

He said that he still had my website address:

http://home.fuse.net/ufo

This took me by surprise because I had not previously given
Captain Smith a website address. He clarified by saying that he
routinely reviews information posted online, as he often finds
himself quoted.

COMMENTS

At one point, I offered to Captain Smith that the 'flare
possibility' posed a 'rational explanation' to explain what
people were claiming to be a UFO being pursued by military jets.
This seemed to be a probability that officialdom might find
appealing. Despite my suggestive wording and perhaps somewhat
leading method of inquiry, the DC ANG officials did not take the
bait and jump at the possible opportunity to satisfy the mystery
behind the reported UFO sightings.

Unless the official position is recanted, flare deployment
should not be considered a component of the July 26th event. We
are left with an official acknowledgment of an unidentified
radar target approaching the restricted area around Washington
D.C., official acknowledgment that the radar target evaded and
eluded fighter interceptors and no official statement (of value)
regarding the citizen sightings of an unidentified flying object
seemingly pursued by military fighter jets near Waldorf,
Maryland.


Filed,
Wednesday, October 9, 2002

Kenny Young
--
UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/ufo








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                      Re: Vallee On Crop Circles - Pope

From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 19:13:09 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 15:47:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Vallee On Crop Circles - Pope


 >From: Dave Haith <visions@ntlworld.com>
 >To: <UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 10:25:34 +0100
 >Subject: Vallee On Crop Circles


 >All the significant formations were observed in an area in close
 >proximity to major research facilities of the British defense
 >establishment, often in controlled airspace. So much for
 >Aliens and Druids. These studies point to the crop formations
 >as the result of sophisticated electronic warfare experiments
 >conducted by defense contractors.


Dave and List,

I was interested to see the article by Jacques Vallee that you
kindly posted, and the subsequent comments on this article from
Bruce Maccabee and Bill Hamilton.

This theory and similar ones have been around for some years
now. As far back as 1991 it was being put to me by various
researchers that crop formations might be caused by the testing
of a directed energy weapon, using either laser, particle,
plasma or microwave beams. I would often respond to such
researchers with a question, asking them where they thought such
a weapon might best be tested. On one of the many remote and
secure military ranges/danger areas? Or on farmers' fields?

On a related issue, several researchers have highlighted what
they believe is evidence of military involvement in the crop
circle phenomenon, citing the fact that military aircraft are
often seen around formations. In fact, there are several
prosaic reasons for this, including the fact that military
aircrew are as likely as anyone else to be fascinated by these
formations. Additionally, once the location of any spectacular
formation is known, like any other prominent feature visible
from the air, it can be a useful navigational marker that can be
used to help check position during a flying training sortie.

I do not dismiss out of hand an exotic explanation for some
formations, but I am not a fan of the directed energy weapon
theory, or of the various conspiracy theories alleging
government and military involvement in the phenomenon.


Best wishes,

Nick Pope








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                       UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 41

From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 17:16:01 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 15:51:22 -0400
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 41


Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor

<Masinaigan@aol.com>
==========================

      UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 7, Number 41
October 8, 2002
Editor: Joseph Trainor

http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/


UFO FLAP BREAKS OUT IN
THE NETHERLANDS

       "A UFO like a ball of light frightened last Saturday
night (September 28, 2002) a Dutch couple, Pieter Vosters
and Judith van Heerwaarden, who live in Bladel (eastern
part of Noord-Brabant province, not too far from
Eindhoven--P.H.) in the southeast of the Netherlands."
       "The couple told the police the strange ball pursued
them during a period of three quarters of an hour (45
minutes) while they were driving their car on the road
from Valkenswaard to Bladel."
       "'I am a very hard-headed man in these things,' said
real estate agent Pieter Vosters, 40, 'And I know people
will think we are mad.  But what we saw was real.  The
light followed us all the time.  It reacted immediately
to our movements.  And I really didn't drink too much.'"
       "According to Vosters, the white ball radiated a
bright light and flew at a high altitude.  'First I
thought it was a kind of laser show for a discotechque.
We even started to make jokes about it.  But when it kept
on following us, I thought to myself: Something is wrong
here.'"
       "'We stopped the car on the side of the road.  The
light stopped as well and stayed above us while it was
turning around in circles (spinning--J.T.).  This
happened about six times more.  When we stopped, the
thing stopped as well.'"
       "'When we turned left in the direction of Bladel,
the light did the same.  It was a very bright light.  I
told my wife (Judith) to step on the gas.  But it kept on
pursuing us at a very high speed.  The speed was so high,
the object now looked like a streak of light.  By this
time, we were convinced it couldn't be a laser.  My wife
became frightened.  I was afraid to go home.'"
       "Vosters said the UFO disappeared when his wife
stopped their BMW not far from their house."
       "The Dutch investigations group, UFO Werkgroep-
Nederland (UWN), has started an extensive investigation
of the strange light phenomena that was reported last
weekend by a couple who live in Bladel, Noord-Brabant,"
Netherlands.
       "On Saturday night (September 28, 2002), in Utrecht,
40-year-old Linda Schajik was also followed by" the UFO.
       "Late Saturday night, at about 12:30 a.m. (actually,
that would have been early Sunday morning, September 29,
2002--J.T.) Linda had to walk home because she missed the
last bus."
       "'I saw a flat, luminous white spot slantingly above
me,' Linda reported, 'It had a gray luminous tail, and
the tail went up and down like a windscreen (windshield
in the USA--J.T.) wiper.  I was not surprised when I saw
it.  But the light kept on following me.  When I turned
to the right, the light did the same.  And when I
stopped, the light stayed above me, while it was turning
around in small circles (spinning).  I was not afraid.
On the contrary, I found it fascinating.  I stopped a few
times, sometimes as long as 15 minutes.  The light stayed
above me, gently hovering like some kind of guardian
angel who would escort me safely to my house.'"
       "'I thought: What do you want from me?  As I took
two steps to the left, it also made a fast movement.  Can
you imagine this?  After an hour, I walked up my street.
It was spinning for a short while above my little
apartment.  A man on the balcony asked me what I was
looking at.  When I told him about the light, he
immediately closed the door.  Perhaps he thought I was
mad.'"
       On Monday, September 30, 2002, at 10:30 p.m., Edmond
Kruk reported, "I was alone in my garden" in Hoorn, a
town in Noord-Holland province.  "That night the sky was
very bright here.  I saw something that could be a UFO.
At this time, I was just smoking a cigarette in my garden
when I saw a strange, red flying thing passing by at an
unusually fast speed.  It only lasted for ten seconds,
and then it was gone.  The thing was flying faster than a
normal jet plane and was also much bigger.  It also was
higher in the sky, flew very stable, and, in a very
strange way, it looked like 'slow motion' because it was
that big.'"
       Describing the UFO, Edmond added, "I thought it
looked like a 'game pad' (Gameboy in the USA--J.T.) with
five points of red light on either side.  The UFO came
from the east, passed Hoorn, and then went to the west,
towards Alkmaar.'"
       "'Some 20 seconds after that, a white flying ball
went the same way at the UFO, as if it was following the
red UFO.'"  (See the Netherlands newspaper De Telegraaf
for September 30, 2002, "UFO frightened Dutch couple;"
and for October 1, 2002, "More sightings of the
mysterious UFO."  The Kruk story was an Email Form
Report. Many thanks to Peter Hoeke of UFO Werkgroep-
Nederland for the newspaper articles.)
(Editor's Comment:  Taking the three stories together, it
sounds as if the small white UFO was a probe sent out by
the red UFO.  The probe may have been monitoring Pieter
Vosters and Linda Schajik for some unknown purpose.  It's
interesting to note that both Vosters and Schajik are 40
years old.  Were the UFOs up to something in the
Netherlands back in 1962?)


CHILCA: UFO CAPITAL OF PERU

       "Of all the officers in all the armed forces of the
world, perhaps none has a more unusual job than" Cmdr.
Julio Chamorro of the Fuerza Aerea Peruana (FAP, or
Peruvian Air Force--J.T.) "to investigate--and perhaps
prove--the existence of UFOs."
       "As head of the Office to Investigate Aerial
Phenomena, Chamorro directs a seven-member team in charge
of studying what he calls 'anomalies that could cause
problems with aviation.'"
       "Ostensibly, the Office investigates planes that
veer off course and hang gliders that steer too close to
military bases, but that's not the crux of their work.
Of the hundreds of calls received each month by the
Office, Chamorro says at least half are to report UFO
sightings.  And Chamorro says many are credible."
       "'There are several mysteries that we believe are
highly important and which merit our full attention,'
Chamorro said, 'If we can arrive at definitive
conclusions, our work will be highly beneficial to Peru
and all of humanity.  Just think about the technological
advances if we can definitively prove the existence of
(alien) spacecraft.'"
       "Chamorro estimates that 60 percent of Peru's
population has seen an unexplainable event in the sky.
Most of the calls he receives can be explained, but he
says about a dozen each month are credible sightings with
no easy explanations."
       "There is, for example, the video taken in
Chulucanas," in the department (state) of Piura, 470
kilometers (282 miles) north of Lima, Peru's capital.
"Taken at the end of 2001, Chamorro says it shows a huge
ship sitting in the sky for nearly two hours.  'The ship
makes no noise and did not move.  You can see the shape,
which includes even windows,' Chamorro said."
       "Chulucanas has a long history of UFO sightings, he
added."
       "Chamorro's office was officially organized two
years ago, but the Peruvian government's interest in UFOs
goes back" much earlier "and there is archaeological
evidence that ancient cultures were also hooked on other-
worldly phenomena."
       "Miles-long geometric designs in the desert of
Nazca, south of Lima, or a winged god in the north are
evidence for Chamorro that past cultures" in Peru "not
only mastered science and math but had an inkling that
space might hold more than the sun and moon."
       "In Chilca," 78 kilometers (46 miles) "south of
Lima, on the Pacific coast, Mayor Ruma Nueda is hoping to
capitalize on the town's fame as one of the hottest spots
for UFO sightings."
       "'There's big money in sightings,' Rueda said, 'We
can become the next Roswell.  Looking to the (UFO)
seekers may be Chilca's best bet for dealing with the
very worldly problems of economic decay and poverty.'"
       "Like many people in Chilca, Rueda says he has seen
unidentified objects in the skies above his town.  In
February 1998, Rueda says, he was chatting with his
brother one night right outside his house when a large,
boomerang-shaped object appeared over a ridge that juts
into the sea just beyond Chilca.  He says the UFO moved
slowly and made no noise."
       "Six similarly-shaped smaller objects were nearby.
'The mother ship and the six other vehicles hovered for a
few minutes and then headed out to sea,' Rueda said, 'I
had always heard about UFOs, but this was my first
sighting.  For me, it was undeniable proof that there was
life outside our planet.'"
       "Chilca also has its own tiny piece of UFO history.
In the town's one-room museum, Rueda keeps a miniscule
swath of Incan textile wrapped in brown paper for
safekeeping."
(Editor's Note: Actually, the "coast cultures" of Peru,
famous for their textiles,  predated the Incas by one to
two thousand years.)
       "The textile depicts an oddly-shaped, non-human
figure with antennas.  Rueda says the figure is similar
to the extraterrestrial supposedly found in Roswell (New
Mexico) in (July) 1947 and forms the core of UFO
attractions that have put Roswell on the map."
       "'This proves we are not the first people to sight
UFOs here.  The ancient Peruvians who inhabited Chilca
also had sightings and possibly contact,' he said."
       "Chamorro says (UFO) sightings form part of Peru's
culture, and even the government has gotten into the act
on and off during the years."  (See the Miami Herald for
September 28, 2002, "Peruvians reach discovery and profit
in UFOs."
Many thanks to Thomas Buyea and Rev. Billy Dee for
forwarding this newspaper article.)


BIGFOOT ON THE PROWL IN
WESTERN PENNSYLVANIA

       "The incident took place in Derry Township in
Westmoreland County," located about 25 miles (40
kilometers) east of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.  According
to ufologist and researcher Stan Gordon, "It took some
time to reach the location, which was remote and was made
up of many acres of dense woods."
       "The event took place on or about Wednesday,
September 11, 2002," Stan reported, "at around 6 p.m.
The young man appeared to be a very serious individual
and revealed the details of what had occurred.  The
sighting took place just as the sun was going down.  He
was riding his bicycle on the family property" near Derry
(population 2,991) when he heard crashing sounds
originating from a wooded area.  There were sounds as if
something was hitting a log and branches breaking."
       "He stopped to listen when his attention was drawn
towards a field and a tree line 300 feet (90 meters)
away, where he saw 'a big brown human-looking thing but
very tall.'"
       "The creature was moving along the area, and there
were some clearings where the creature could be observed
at times.  The witness described the creature as
generally man-like, but 8 feet (2.4 meters) tall and
covered with dark brown hair.  The creature was broad-
shouldered, had very long arms, and the head was not
perfectly round but somewhat cone-shaped.  The creature,
which took very long steps, was occasionally swinging its
arms as it moved, and was slightly bent forward as it
walked."
       "'It leaned over when it walked,' the witness said."
       "The boy hurried to tell his father what he had
seen.  They both went back to the location, but nothing
more was observed" on this occasion.
       "Then, on Friday, September 27, 2002, at about 2
p.m., the wife of the caller (i.e. the man who reported
the sighting to Stan Gordon--J.T.) was driving up a road
near the (same) wooded area where the first sighting had
taken place.  She heard a sound like limbs of trees
breaking, coming from the left, and she stopped."
       "There are a lot of deer in those woods, and she was
concerned that some deer were about to run across the
road and would hit her vehicle.  She was talking to her
husband on her cell phone at the time."
       "Suddenly, about 133 feet (40.3 meters) away, she
was startled to see a creature emerge from a clearing in
the woods.  She said that what she saw was tall and man-
like, and was estimated at about 8 feet (2.4 meters)
tall.  It was covered all over with long brown hair,
which looked to be about 12 inches (40 centimeters) in
length.  The creature's arms hung to the knees, and long
hair was hanging down from the arms.  The creature had
'big shoulders.'"
       "The (female) witness watched as the creature moved
from the tree line and crossed the field for a distance
of at least 100 feet (30 meters).  The creature was
slightly hunched as it moved, took big steps and quickly
covered a lot of distance.  The creature did not swing
its arms as it moved across the field."
       "At the end of the field was a barbed-wire fence.
What amazed the witness was that the creature never
slowed down or hesitated as it approached the fence.  It
crossed the fence without breaking stride.  The witness
watched as the creature moved its leg over the fence.
'It just walked over the fence.'"
       During his on-site investigation, Stan Gordon
"measured the height of the barbed-wire fence where the
creature had crossed."  The top strand of wire was "44
inches (110 centimeters) off the ground.  The creature
never headed towards the (witness's) vehicle.  The woman
was describing to her husband via the cell phone what she
was seeing.  She said that suddenly she became scared and
felt the need to 'leave quickly.'"
       Stan adds, "I had made many trips to this general
area in 1973, when a major outbreak of Bigfoot sightings
was occurring.  Not far away is the Chestnut Ridge.
Historically, numerous alleged Bigfoot sightings have
occurred at locations near the ridge, which extends from
Preston County, West Virginia through Westmoreland,
Indiana and Fayette counties here in Pennsylvania."
(Many thanks to Stan Gordon of Pennsylvania UFO/Fortean
Hotline for these reports.)


SILVER SPHERE UFO SEEN IN
TULSA, OKLAHOMA

       On Tuesday, October 1, 2002, at 3:42 p.m., Keith L.
Partain was "at the intersection of Twenty-First and
Garnett in Tulsa, Oklahoma" when "I witnessed an object
in the south rising toward the zenith.  It was spherical
in shape and silvery in color.  I saw no wings or jet
contrail.  My best estimate of height (altitude--J.T.)
was several hundred feet, and its speed perhaps just
below supersonic."
       "It was visible only for about five to ten seconds;
then it vanished just a few degrees south of the zenith.
Its apparent diameter from my vantage point on the ground
was that of the planet Venus at its peak brightness.
However, Venus is not in the south, and this was in broad
daylight.  The weather was clear, with just a few large
cumulous clouds.  No storms present."  (Email Report)


SEVEN UFOs SPOTTED BY A
FAMILY IN NILES, OHIO

       On Saturday, August 31, 2002, at 10:50 p.m., J.W.
reported, "At a family get-together" in Niles, Ohio
(population 20,932) "we sat around a campfire,
reminiscing, joking, etc. During a lull in the
conversation, I leaned back in my chair to stare at the
stars."
       All at once, J.W. "observed five 'Stealth-like'
objects crossing the sky directly above.  The objects
were all of similar size.  They appeared vee-shaped,
large aircraft size, and in a 'single file' formation.
They were spread perhaps two lengths behind each other.
They had a luminous energy (aura--J.T.) to them, yet
emitted no white or colored light of any kind, not any
kind of sound."
       "After the five had disappeared from view, two more
like (similar) objects followed, passing overhead in the
same direction, to the north (towards Lake Erie--J.T.)"
       J.W. described the UFOs as "blackish-gray, vee-
shaped, like a flying wing.  Estimated altitude of 20,000
feet (6,000 meters), flying one to two times as fast as a
commercial jet seen at the same altitude."
       Niles, Ohio is about 20 miles (32 kilometers)
northwest of Youngstown.  (Email Form Report)


YELLOW UFO SIGHTED IN
BRITISH COLUMBIA

       According to Canadian ufologist Brian Vike, this
sighting took place near Houston, British Columbia,
Canada.  "On Thursday, October 3, 2002, the witness was
on the telephone with her daughter.  She was looking out
her kitchen window, which faces the Telkwa mountain
range.  She noticed a strange, pale, yellow-coloured
object traveling slowly below the horizon ( ridge in the
USA--J.T.) of the mountains.  She said it (the UFO) was
'completely round.'  The sky was clear except for some
low cloud/fog in some areas."
       "The witness told her daughter to hold on, dropped
the telephone and ran outside onto their patio deck to
get a better look at it.  At this time, the object rose
up against the skyline but still continued along its
(flight) path, which was in a southwesterly direction
heading towards the Morice River Road."
       "She said there were no wings or propellers which
would indicate the object being a normal aircraft."
       Houston, B.C. (population 3,934) is on Provincial
Highway 16 and is about 500 miles (800 kilometers) north
of Vancouver.  (Many thanks to Brian Vike for this
report.)


MYSTERIOUS DOOR FOUND
INSIDE THE GREAT PYRAMID

       "Scientists exploring the interior of the Great
Pyramid in Egypt sent a robot into the northern shaft
during" late September "discovering another 'blocking
stone.'"
       "The 'door' appears to be identical to the other one
in the shaft that was already known.  The doors are
equidistant (65 meters or 208 feet) from the Queen's
Chamber.  It is the third such block discovered within
the shaft of the pyramid."
       "The announcement of the discovery was made Monday,"
September 23, 2002, "by Farouk Hosni, Egypt's Minister of
Culture, and Dr. Zahi Hawass, Secretary-General of
Egypt's Supreme Council of Antiquities."
       "A specially-developed combination (tracked vehicle)
of robotics, cameras and lighting technology, developed
by iRobot of Boston," Massachusetts, USA "yielded the new
information."
       "Until the discovery, no one knew that the northern
shaft extended to the north as far as the southern shaft
goes to the south.  Prior explorations of the northern
shaft have failed because, unlike the southern shaft, the
northern shaft has a number of (these doors or) blocks
and sharp corners."
       "Dr. Hawass suggested that the layout of the
northern shaft may have been designed to avoid
intersecting with the pyramid's Grand Gallery."  (See
National Geographic News for September 23, 2002, "Third
'Door' found in the Great Pyramid."  Many thanks to Steve
Wilson Sr. for this article.)
(Editor's Comment:  There may also be branch shafts
further along the northern shaft.  In addition,
Illuminati founder Adam Weishaupt may have been right
when he said there were additional undiscovered chambers
in the pyramid.  The "sharp corners" in the shaft could
have been designed to avoid such chambers.  Clearly there
is more to the Great Pyramid than meets the eye.)


LARGE METEOR CRASHES
IN SOUTHERN SIBERIA

       "Residents of several villages in the region of
Irkutsk" in Russia, witnessed with a mixture of awe and
fear the fall of an enormous luminous object in southern
Siberia.  (Russian) scientists identified the object as a
meteor."
       "Several witnesses to the skyfall immediately
reached for the telephone and contacted the Institute of
Solar Physics of the Western Siberia Department of the
Russian Academy of Science.  The Emergency Situations
Ministry (Russia's answer to the USA's Federal Emergency
Management Agency or FEMA--J.T.) was notified due to the
commotion that the object's fall caused among the
region's population."
       "According to residents of the villages of Bodaibo,
Balajniniski, Mama and Kropotkin, the alleged meteorite
left a long trail in the sky before crashing violently in
the taiga (Siberian forest--S.C.)."
       "Witnesses more than 100 to 150 kilometers (60 to 90
miles) away from the point of impact noted that when the
object crashed, it caused a large tremor similar to that
of an earthquake, amid a deafening noise."
       "They also remarked that following the impact,
sporadic flashes of light were seen in the forested
hills."
       "Guelii Zherebtsov of the Institute of Solar Physics
noted that the celestial body must have been a very large
meteorite.  He added that preparations are being made to
visit the impact site, located between the villages of
Balajniniski and Kiajta."  (See Spain's EFE News Agency
report for October 3, 2002, "Large meteor strikes western
Siberia."  Many thanks to Scott Corrales and Gloria
Coluchi for sending along the EFE report.)


READER FEEDBACK:

THAT'S "SOTE," JOE

       Robert Fischer (France) writes, "In the report about
'Seagulls attack joggers in southern France,' I would
tell you that the name of the city is Sote and not Sate.
The town is also the one where the graves of Georges
Brassens, a French singer, and Paul Valery, a French
novelist, are located.  Keep on informing me!"


  From the UFO Files...

1954: A MAJOR UFO FLAP
            IN FRANCE

       One of the biggest European UFO flaps of all time
took place nearly half a century ago in France.  Sunday,
October 3, 1954, was the high water mark of this outbreak
of UFO sightings.
       "There were more than 30 good sightings that day.
Almost all of them occurred between 7:20 and 9:30 p.m.,
and they were grouped largely in two relatively small
areas on the map."
       "The first sighting was reported at Chereng, a
country village between Lille and Tournai," on France's
border with Belgium, "some six miles (10 kilometers) east
of Lille.  The weather was clear, the sky cloudless."
       "Suddenly, at 7:20 p.m., strollers a little to the
west of the village saw in the sky a kind of luminous
shape, traveling at a low altitude and at full speed.
When it reached the height of the footbridge spanning the
little Marque River, the object stopped, emitted what
seemed to be sparks, and descended."
       "The witnesses broke into a run and headed for the
bridge. But, at their approach, the object immediately
gained altitude and disappeared just as it had arrived.
The whole scene had lasted scarcely more than ten
seconds, in total silence."
       "At 8 o'clock, Mlle. Anne-Marie Perrut, daughter of
a policeman at Marcoing, 35 miles (56 kilometers) south
of Chereng, was looking out of her window when her
attention was drawn to a strange spectacle.  Several
hundred yards (meters) from the police station, above the
Gouillet woods, a luminous object hung motionless in the
air.  It was circular and orange-red in color.  A little
below this immobile object, and as though suspended from
it, she saw a small spot of light with a kind of see-saw
movement."
       "Mlle. Perrut watched for a moment, distrusting her
own eyes; then she called her father, who at first
refused to be disturbed.  After several minutes, as the
object was still there, Anne-Marie begged so insistently
that her father finally consented to come.  Then it was
the policeman's turn to ask himself if he were seeing
things, for there was the object, just as his daughter
had been telling him.  M. Perrut routed out his
colleages, policemen Faucambergue, Delande and Bleuzot
and their families; soon there were twenty witnesses."
       "After a moment, while the strange visitor continued
to remain motionless above the Gouillet woods, the
policemen sought other witnesses.  They stopped
bicyclists who passed the police station.  All could see
the same spectacle.  The luminous ball did not take off;
but it was seen from time to time to rise or descend
somewhat, apparently in a vertical line."
       "Shortly after 8:30 p.m., the object underwent a
sudden transformation; the spot of light suspended below
it disappeared, while the ball itself assumed a shape
like that of a cigar, or a disk viewed edgewise.
According to the police, it was then possible to estimate
its altitude at 1,800 to 2,000 feet (540 to 600 meters).
Almost immediately after its metamorphosis, the object
moved away horizontally in the shape of a crescent, as if
the disk had bent over; it then returned to the same
spot, remained there for a few moments, and finally took
off at great speed in the direction of Villiers-Plouich,
about three and a half miles (6 kilometers) to the south
of Marcoing; there, as it disappeared, it threw out a
beam of light so intense as to illuminate the sky several
seconds after the object itself had disappeared.  The
time was 8:45 p.m."
       "The next sighting began several minutes later, at a
point 33 miles (55 kilometers) southwest of Marcoing."
       "Several minutes after 8:45 p.m., while the Marcoing
witnesses saw the object disappear toward the southwest,
an automobile driven by Mme. Nelly Mansart of No. 8 Rue
de la Marliere, Amiens (in the department of Somme--
J.T.), was leaving Herissart.  With Mme. Mansart were two
other Amiens residents, M. and Mme. Delarouzee."
       "As the car was about to turn left into the Amiens
road, the three motorists suddenly saw, at low altitude,
a luminous ball in the sky, its color a brilliant orange.
On closer observation, its shape seemed to be 'like a
mushroom hat.'"
(Editor's Note: "Mushroom hats" were considered haute
couture by the women of the middle 1950s.  These wide-
brimmed hats looked like mushrooms without their stems.
Yes, kids, your great-grandmothers actually wore these
things back then.)
       "The upper part of the 'mushroom' appeared to
vibrate as it changed color from violet to greenish,
while short 'cables' of some kind hung from the bottom
surface.  The witnesses estimated the object's dimensions
at 20 or 25 feet (6 or 8 meters), its distance at 150
yards (135 meters)."
       "Mme. Mansart made the turn at the crossroad.  She
then perceived that the object, now almost at ground
level, had turned and was following her car, always at
the same distance.  The three motorists grew frightened.
Mme. Mansart speeded up, the sooner to reach Rubempre, a
village about a mile (1.6 kilometers) away, in the hopes
that the mysterious visitor would be intimidated by the
houses and go away.  In fact, it slanted off and
disappeared."
       "But hardly were the travelers clear of the village
than they again saw behind them, still almost level with
the ground and no distance away, the tenacious
'mushroom.'  It had detoured the village and now regained
the road."
       "The next village was Pierregot, a mile or so
distant.  The three motorists began to wonder what this
importunate follower wanted of them, and how it would
end.  At the outskirts of Pierregot, the same maneuver;
it slanted off and disappeared."
       "Mme Mansart continues, 'As we left Pierregot,
seeing that the object had rejoined us once again, I
stopped the car.  The 'saucer' continued on for three or
four hundred yards, and then it stopped, too, going
around in circles, almost on the ground.  I waited a
moment, then started the car again.  It (the UFO) again
took up its position and the pursuit.'"
       "'It was only when we entered Rainneville, six miles
(10 kilometers) from Amiens, that we saw the 'saucer'
leave us, and this time for good.  It turned off toward
the west, picked up speed, and disappeared with dizzying
rapidity in that direction.'"
       "This astounding adventure all occurred in four or
five miles (6 or 8 kilometers) of driving, and in less
than six minutes.  It was 9:05 p.m."  (See the book
Flying Saucers and the Straight-Line Mystery by Aime
Michel, S.G. Phillips Inc., New York, N.Y., 1958, pages
112 to 117.)


       Well, that's it for this week.  Join us next time
for more UFO, Fortean and paranormal news from around the
planet Earth, brought to you by "the paper that goes
home--UFO Roundup."  See you then.

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2002 by Masinaigan Productions,
all rights reserved.  Readers may post news items from
UFO Roundup on their websites or in news groups provided
that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name
and list the date of issue in which the item first
appeared.


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   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   Oct > Oct 9

             Chupacabras Reappears Near Aguas Buenas Puerto Rico

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 15:59:13 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 16:50:41 -0400
Subject: Chupacabras Reappears Near Aguas Buenas Puerto Rico


Source: Primera Hora (Newspaper)
Date: October 7, 2002

Another Mysterious Attack: Chupacabras Returns
by
Sara M. Justicia Doll
for Primera Hora

Only two weeks after being blamed for the deaths of several
domestic animals in Ponce, the enigmatic Chupacabras reappeared
this time in the Caguitas Centro sector of Aguas Buenas.

"When I got home I looked at the cage and didn't see the
rabbits. I went downstairs quickly and saw the scene: I had a
nervous attack and had to take some pills," said Amarillis
Flores, who returned home yesterday morning after having spent
the weekend at her daughter's house.

Amarillis, who was in charge of the residence, was alarmed when
she saw that her grandchildren's pets - two white rabbits, a
black duck, a rooster and a hen - lay petrified at the bottom of
their cages, located at the rear of the backyard. Neighbor
Salvador Rosario said that on Sunday night he noticed that the
dogs were very restless, but dismissed the possibility that the
canines could have been the cause of the animal deaths, as the
cage would require a strength greater than a dog's to tear
through the screen.

"Two dogs have been missing since Saturday--a dachsund named
Oreja and a poodle named Negri," added Rosario, a retired
schoolteacher. The scene was macabre: a duck, still agonizing,
displayed two holes on its back through which its blood was
apparently extracted. The equidistant holes could also be seen
on the rooster's back and on that of the hen. The rabbits' front
paws had been severed; two geese and another duck survived the
carnage. "They couldn't have been dogs, because they would have
dragged the animals away. It was a two-legged chupacabras," said
Flores, meaning that it was either the mythical creature that no
one has been able to identify, or it was a human being.

Inside the cage, where the smell of decomposition prevailed,
there was no trace of blood and it's gate had not been forced.
The wire fencing hadn been pierced or ripped by something with
considerable strength, according to the affected parties.

When intervierwed by PRIMERA HORA, veterinarian and zoologist
Pedor N=FAnez noted that the incidents ascribed to the
"Chupacabras" - a character believed by many to have wings,
flies swiftly and has nocturnal habits - could be the work of
stray dogs, apes or exotic animals not native to Puerto Rico.
The specialist in exotic wildlife stated that during the drought
season, some types of rats and mice tend to suck the blood of
others to survive.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Translation (C) 2002. Scott Corrales
Institute of Hispanic Ufology
Special thanks to Luiseppi Qui=F1ones.








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   Oct > Oct 9

                         The Argentine Susques Crash

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 15:45:24 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 16:47:44 -0400
Subject: The Argentine Susques Crash


Source: http://www.jujuyaldia.com.ar/article.php?sid=11585
Date: October 9, 2002

Report From Police Comission Investigating Collision Of Object
In Susques

by Mariana Choquevilca

Report From Police Comission Investigating Collision Of Object
In Susques

by Mariana Choquevilca

With a laconic "we found nothing", the police invesigation sent
out to look into the curious claim of a resident of Susques
appears to have ended.

The woman claimed having seen a shiny object fall from the sky
and produce a small tremor and a loud report.

Now, faced with new claims from settlements far removed from
Susques, a new group of police investigators has been
comissioned.

Following a new hypothesis, they are tracing a triangle between
Susques, San Juan de Quillaques and El Toro - the area in which
they will search for the mysterious object that upset the quiet
community.

========================================

Translation (C) 2002. Scott Corrales IHU
Special thanks to Gloria Coluchi.










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   Oct > Oct 9

                    Re: Vallee On Crop Circles - Hamilton

From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 20:17:32 UT
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 16:52:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Vallee On Crop Circles - Hamilton


 >From: Andy Roberts <aj.roberts@blueyonder.co.uk>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: Vallee On Crop Circles
 >Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 16:06:23 +0100

 >>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 01:12:12 UT
 >>Subject: Re: Vallee On Crop Circles

 >Bill wrote,

 >>England is usually very foggy.

 >All the time - you can barely see the streets paved with gold
 >through it - and trying to find a respectable hot chestnut
 >seller can be hell in those pea-soupers.

 >Bill - it is _rarely_ foggy in England. I can't recall a single
 >day's fog in the last two years here. Too many Sherlock Holmes
 >and Dickens books methinks!


Oh, thanks. I meant to delete that as I had already been
informed of this when I first posted it. These movies with all
that London fog went to me head!


Bill







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   Oct > Oct 9

                          Filer's Files #41 - 2002

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 16:37:02 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 17:04:59 -0400
Subject: Filer's Files #41 - 2002


FILER'S FILES #41 - 2002, MUFON Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer, Director Mutual UFO Network Eastern
October 9, 2002, Majorstar@aol.com.
Webmaster: Chuck Warren

My new website is at:

http://www.filersfiles-ufo.com


UFO SIGHTINGS CONTINUE HIGH:

The purpose of these files is to report the UFO eyewitness and
photo/video evidence that occurs on a daily basis around the
world. Features this week are: New Planet like object found past
Pluto, Possible ET habitats on Europa, New York sightings and a
daylight disc photo, Pennsylvania man died from cocaine, North
Carolina red and white lights, Florida pilot sees UFO and
fireball, Ohio streaking light, Illinois teardrop craft,
Tennessee spheres and space formation, Texas lost time, Colorado
light, California flying triangle video, Oregon UFO chases
airliner, Washington UFOs, Hawaii green fireball, Ireland flying
triangle, Netherlands 12 UFOs, Italy white teardrop, Azerbaijan
disk, India boomerang, and Australian UFO shoots past office
building. Boeing plans to build biggest Pelican.

NEW SOLAR SYSTEM BODY REVEALED

CalTech astronomers have discovered an object more than half
Pluto's diameter in the Kuiper Belt. This belt is the collection
of primordial icy bodies that circles our Sun beyond the orbit
of Neptune and represents the "leftovers" of planetary
formation. "This helps to displace the opinion that Pluto is a
planet," says Brian Marsden of the Harvard-Smithsonian Center
for Astrophysics, who thinks Pluto is instead the largest Kuiper
Belt object found so far. The size of the new object, named
Quaoar, was measured by the Hubble Space Telescope. It is about
1250 kilometers in diameter, making it the largest object found
in the Solar System since Pluto itself in 1930. Mike Brown and
Chad Trujillo of Caltech first spotted Quaoar in June after
months of surveying the Kuiper Belt with an automated 1.2-metre
telescope. They announced their discovery on Monday at the
Division of Planetary Sciences meeting in Birmingham, Alabama.
October 2, NewScientist.com news service

POSSIBLE ET HABITATS ON EUROPA

Galileo space probe data suggests there's an ocean on Jupiter's
moon Europa, which is Earth-like and could harbor life. The
moon's icy crust is relatively thin, with cracks and vents,
which would allow gases, heat and organic matter to reach water
underneath. This is same situation that probably exists on Mars.
Europa's Ocean may be like the icy bodies of water on Earth,
such as the Arctic Ocean, which is our smallest ocean and
occupies the area around the North Pole. It's exposed to air and
heat through its cracking and melting ice. Another similar body
of water is Lake Vostok in Antarctica, which is one of the
deepest-known bodies of fresh water on Earth and resembles the
ice-covered oceans that are being discovered elsewhere in the
Solar System. It may even harbor undiscovered forms of life. Dr.
Cynan Ellis-Evans says, "These new interpretations suggest that
a Europan ocean could be dynamically interacting with the moon's
surface atmosphere over short time scales that increas e
opportunities for life to exist and evolve." Clouds of sulfur
spewing from Io, another of Jupiter's moons, could be reaching
Europa. "If we're getting a sulfur source going into the lake
it's an exciting possibility," he says. "It increases the
opportunity for life." One theory is that a meteorite carrying
microbes could have crashed into Europa. NASA is considering
sending a robotic probe to Europa to drill through the ice and
look for life. Another possible ET habitat is a planet orbiting
around another star that has a circular orbit, meaning it could
be Earth-like. Researcher Chris McCarthy says, "Now it's seeming
like there is a sizable and well-populated class of giant
planets that have circular orbits." This newly discovered planet
orbits a star called Tau Gruis, which is about 100 light-years
away. Thanks to London Sunday Telegraph October 6, 2002

NEW YORK UFO SIGHTINGS

STATEN ISLAND -- On September 28, 2002, at exactly 8 PM the
witness reports, "Myself and my landlord witnessed a strange
bright white light moving northeast. We live directly in the
flight path of JFK and LGA and we can easily distinguish types
of aircraft. I served at Otis Air Force Base in Massachusetts
and based on my experience, what we saw last night was no
aircraft. Firstly, its altitude could not have been more than a
3000 feet, and it was traveling quite slowly. We reside in
Emerson Hill and have a great view. This object was emitting a
singular bright white light, and had no port, starboard, or tail
blinking lights. It made no sound as we watched it fly right
over the house and then up the coast. This is the second
sighting in the last month. The other was a satellite moving
faster than anything we've ever seen, all moving in exactly the
same trajectory at the same distance away from each other again
moving in a northeasterly direction. The objec t we saw last
evening was no aircraft, we don't know what it was and have been
unable to receive help from the FAA, Coast Guard or local media.

CENTER MORICHES -- We were at a birthday party on September 28,
2002, where there was no alcohol or any other mind altering
substance being used. I'm an 47 year old female with a BA in
Human Relations. The other two witnesses are male about 40 and
50 years of age. We noticed aircraft in formation at 8:15 PM,
and the first was a plane with the usual red/green blinking
lights, heading west, following that was a white light moving
about the same speed, not fast but steady, but with no blinking
lights. One of the other eye witnesses made the observation that
it was much too close to the first object to be a plane, because
they're not allowed to fly so near each other. The third object
was the same short distance away following the 2nd object and
was also a white light with no blinking lights. We watched until
they were out of our view. [ http://www.ufocenter.com/ ]NUFORC

NEW YORK CITY -- Paul Greco was driving his car on FDR Drive
near 96th Street at 4:45 PM, when he saw a disk shaped UFO
moving at 20 to 30 miles an hour on June 21, 2001. He was in
heavy traffic when he noticed a dull orange craft moving near
the highway an above some apartments buildings. Paul grabbed his
camera and took several pictures as he drove along. He zoomed in
to get a close up while dodging cars and took a shot of the
craft just as it flew behind a building. He showed his
photographs during my recent briefing to the Yonkers MUFON
meeting. He missed the close up shot, but the best photo is on
my website. Thanks to Paul Greco and a wonderful MUFON audience.
See: [
http://www.nationalufocenter.com/files/2002/index.php?id=73 ]FF
UFO CENTER PHOTOS

PENNSYLVANIA TODD SEES DEATH

NORTHUMBERLAND COUNTY -- Point Township Police Chief Gary
Steffen announced that 39-year-old Todd Sees, who was found dead
August 6, 2002, near his home after a two-day manhunt, died from
a cocaine overdose. "The immediate cause of death has been
determined to be cocaine toxicity. The manner of death is listed
as accidental." Toxicology analysis was done by Northumberland
County Coroner James Kelley. These tests were requested after
the autopsy back in August failed to determine Todd See's cause
of death. Unanswered questions remain: why would a healthy
outdoorsman and husband, and father of two sons go on a Sunday
morning hunting trip on August 4 and ingest enough cocaine to
kill himself? Further, what is behind the "eyewitness reports"
about four witnesses seeing a silver disk over Montour Ridge and
seeing a man "drawn up into it?" Thanks to Linda Howe
http://www.earthfiles.com

Editors Note: The witness reports of a UFO to Peter Davenport's
National UFO Reporting Center may have had no connection with
the unfortunate death of Todd Sees.

NORTH CAROLINA RED AND WHITE LIGHTS SEEN

HOLDEN BEACH -- On the evening of September 19, 2002, the
witness reports, "My husband I were fishing at 9 PM, when we
noticed on the horizon at low cloud level bright red large
lights. Early in the sighting one of the red lights split into
two and faded. After we watched these lights for about ten
minutes my husband stood up to walk down to the surf to reel his
fishing line in and suddenly just beyond the surf and very close
to us, four white lights lit up one at a time in a row as if
they were attached to something. These lights stayed lit for
about 4 seconds and faded out and the red lights on the horizon
lit up again. One at a time the red lights would light up and
fade after about 4 seconds. I ran into the house to get
binoculars and told my father in law to come out and watch. He
came out with me. My husband told us, "Two more red lights had
lit up in the sky." As soon as I sat down two more red lights
lit up and one of the lights emitted a beam from the side of it
and within the beam were small white lights in a row. After the
last two red lights we saw nothing else for the rest of the
night. Thanks to Peter Davenport [ http://www.ufocenter.com/
]NUFORC

FLORIDA FIREBALL OR UFO?

DAYTONA BEACH APPROACH -- On October 4, 2002, an Embry-Riddle
pilot was flying northbound at 10:40 PM, and in contact with Air
Traffic Control (ATC)on 132.65. He broadcast very excited, "I
just had a near miss." ATC asked him what type of aircraft he
saw and where it was? The pilot responded, "It was not an
aircraft, it was just a short way off my right wing. It came
upon me very suddenly and soared upward and was about the size
of a baby carriage." ATC asked him if it could have been a bird?
The pilot responded "No it was no bird, it soared upward fast; I
have no idea what it was!" The controller related some unusual
sights he had seen during his career flying USAF C-130s, and he
tried to calm the pilot, but the he remained a bit excited about
what he had seen, insisting that it was a strange unsettling
sight. Eventually the ATC handed him off to 125.8, another
Daytona Beach Approach frequency. Thanks to Allan Stern

KEY WEST -- The witness was out walking his two year old before
bedtime on September 28, 2002, when he saw flying behind a
neighbor's house and over the sea was a large object traveling
southeast. It was losing altitude as if on approach to the Boca
Chica Naval Air Base at about 8:45 PM. It traveled too fast for
a plane, too slow for a meteor, and seemed a bit orange colored,
bright and fuzzy around the edges. 'We've never seen anything
like this.

VERO BEACH -- On September 28, 2002, the witness was standing at
the bus stop at 7:06 AM, when he looked up and saw a fiery
object hovering above me. He reports, "I watched it for about 1
to 2 minutes, then it flew backwards." At that time I was
distracted by someone coming out of their house and I looked
towards that direction, then when I looked back up at the object
it was gone. Thanks to Peter Davenport [
http://www.ufocenter.com/ ]NUFORC

OHIO BRIGHT STREAKING LIGHT NEAR COLUMBUS

WESTERVILLE -- The witness was driving northwest on a non-
lighted country road on September 23, 2002, when he saw at about
75 degrees in the northwest sky, an oval light that was about
half the size of the full moon. It flew west to north for about
two seconds after it appeared and shot across the sky at 10:22
PM. The brightness was as bright as the full moon but moved too
fast to be a plane. It vanished into the darkness without
leaving a streak in the sky. It happened so quickly, but I will
never forget the intensity. This is the first time I have ever
experienced this type of phenomenon. Thanks to Peter Davenport

ILLINOIS TEARDROP CRAFT WITH REVOLVING LIGHTS

RIVER FOREST -- My father and I were outside in our backyard on
September 28, 2002, with our binoculars and telescope to try and
see the stars. When all of a sudden this teardrop craft just
shoots on by traveling towards the west with about 8 dark yellow
lights revolving lights around it in opposite direction of its
movement. It moved so quickly we cant describe it any more
detail.

TAYLORVILLE -- We were traveling west on September 21, 2002,
with my daughter, my neighbor, her stepson and my grandson. Our
ages range from 8 to 49. I first noticed what I thought was a
large bright star in the lower sky at 7 PM just after sunset. I
thought it was a star, but I started seeing up to 7 at once.
They were very bright silver and moved after a few minutes and
appeared to have tails and were flying over Springfield. We
called our husbands on the cell phone who were in the truck just
ahead of us, and they saw them too. These were not airplanes
because they sat in one place to long, moved, then changed
formation and stayed there. Thanks to Peter Davenport [
http://www.ufocenter.com/ ]NUFORC

TENNESSEE SPHERES PHOTOGRAPHED IN DAYLIGHT

GERMANTOWN -- While photographing cloud formations on September
28, 2002, the witness noted a shining object in western sky and
obtained a photograph at 4:40 PM. The object was near faint
clouds at about six thousand feet. The witness states, There was
a metallic flash of light, and I computer magnified the image to
20x and it consists of at least two silver spheres connected
together by possibly a third sphere or other object." It is a
small image which is viewed from one end of the object with the
opposite end offset to the right and therefore visible in the
picture. The area between the end spheres is obscured by the
near end.

MEMPHIS -- At 7:51 PM, my mother and I were in her back yard
watching the space station flying directly over head from a
southwest to a northeast direction on September 28, 2002, The
entire time we were viewing the object, we were also viewing
another object following the International Space Station keeping
the same distance always. The station looked bigger and whiter
than the second vehicle being smaller with dimmer white light.
The two could have been at different altitudes? If one were to
take both fists, join them together at the thumb knuckles and
hold them up to the sky at arms length, and another doing the
same as you, with both sets of fists touching pinkie fingers,
side-by-side, that was the approximate distance by which the
second vehicle was trailing the station and matching it's speed.
We were both stone cold sober.

(NUFORC Note: Witness is correct. ISS passed just south of
Memphis at 19:49-19:54 hrs. on this date. We do not know what
the second object was in formation with the ISS, but it may have
been a Russian "Progress" resupply capsule. A sighting of the
ISS was reported from Victorville, CA, on the same night, which
also mentioned the second light, which appeared to be trailing
behind the ISS, and it was small in apparent size. See
http://www.heavens-above.com/

TEXAS UFO APPROACHED CAR THEN LOST TIME

ALAMO -- The witness had stepped out of her house to take the
kids to pick up some hamburgers on September 24, 2002, and when
I looked at the field next to our house I saw two big bright
lights hovering at 8 PM. I stared at them and asked my kids if
they were seeing what I was seeing and they told me yes. As we
got in the van and I started to drive the UFO started moving in
our direction. My kids were just starring at it and it had a lot
of lights. It was just moving along next to us but in the sky.
Suddenly it past us and then it went side ways and headed back
towards us and there it was next to us again. No sound ever came
out of it like an airplane or helicopter. It was silent with
little movement. As we got to Burger King it disappeared. When
we got home I asked the kids to draw what they had seen and the
drew a plate like image with lights on it.

GRAPEVINE -- The witness first spotted a UFO at friend's house
at 8:00 PM in the southwestern sky on September 25, 2002. The
object was a blinking dot of white and blue light that dropped
down from about 40,000 feet in about five seconds and was gone.
My vehicle was acting strangely with the gauges not reading the
correct data. Before arriving to my friend's house, I had filled
up my car full of gas and was heading south on Highway 121. At
8:30 PM the highway lights went out, an encompassing bright
white light flashed before me. Before I knew it, I was suddenly
heading west on Interstate 30 and the time was now 9:30 PM. The
distance between the point I was at on 121 South to the point I
found myself at on 30 West is ten miles and does not take one
hour to travel and my gas tank is empty.

ARLINGTON -- I walked outside on September 23, 2002, and looked
up and saw what seemed like a Stealth Bomber airplane at 8:30
PM, but the lights were very dim. The plane looked like it was
huge with about ten lights in a symmetrical pattern. It was
flying very slow.. and no noise was heard. After I lost it over
the apartment roof. I ran to watch it some more but it had
disappeared. Thanks to Peter Davenport [
http://www.ufocenter.com/ ]NUFORC

COLORADO ROUND SILVER OBJECT

COLUMBINE -- While my wife and I were hunting six miles north of
Columbine when we saw a round silver object in the sky on
September 21, 2002, that remained in one place for over 30
minutes starting at 1 PM. I took a compass reading on it and it
was at 135 degrees from north in the southeastern sky 30 degrees
above the horizon. I was looking through my binoculars at an
eagle when I noticed the object. The sky was very blue and clear
and there was definitely something in the sky. I handed the
binoculars over to my wife and she thought it looked like a
balloon, but this object did not move for over 30 minutes. We
continued to view this object at 3 to 5 minute intervals and it
did not move. Several high flying jets flew near this objects,
but the jets appeared to be much lower than this object based
upon the jet wash trails. After 40 minutes, we could not find
the object again in the same portion of the sky. We scanned the
area for several minutes. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC

CALIFORNIA 100 PEOPLE SAW ORANGE GLOWING SAUCER.

DANVILLE -- It was very dark outside at 10:30 PM, and we all
looked up to see a bright neon orange saucer moving at a very
slow rate on September 20, 2002. It hovered for less than two
minutes and disappeared beyond the hills. It seemed like it was
spinning very fast and was actually glowing. There were rays of
light shining off of it. I was with about 100 people outside a
park and all you could hear was screaming from all of my
friends. There was a small dome on top of the saucer. The bottom
of the saucer was smooth and rounded. My friend took pictures.
There were ten search planes in my area after it happened that
were flying very low and we also saw a military jet fly by.
Thanks to Virgil Staff, Western Regional Direction for the
Mutual UFO Network, for the follow-up investigation.

LONG BEACH -- On September 23, 2002, at 9:15 PM, the witness
heard a loud jet and looked up to see lights flashing. The
witness stated, "I could not believe what I was looking at, I
could see a light shaped triangle flashing and changing colors
from red to white, to green, then to blue." I called my wife and
daughter who also saw them. There was another triangle of lights
flashing and changing colors all at the same time. I saw a total
of 11 lights, 3 triangles, and 2 single lights in front of two
of the triangles. I also counted two jets flying back and forth
at a high rate of speed observing the lights. Thanks to Peter
Davenport

THE SANCTUARY -- James reports that four separate groups at the
Sanctuary saw four flying triangles over the Sanctuary and a
multitude of other craft during CSETI training. Dr. Steven Greer
and 30 guests were witness to the sightings. The triangle was
witnessed by all four groups and filmed by three and there is
excellent footage. Steve Mareno with PSI Applications, Dr.
Greer's group, Bill, Fern and family and another family were all
present. This makes four independent groups all of which
witnessed, three of which filmed the triangles. The first
triangles shut down the cameras. None worked. The last large one
allowed three of the groups to film it. I do not know what it
takes to validate the ongoing activity and contacts but to any
reasonable mind this should be a clincher. Thanks to James.

OREGON SIGHTING OF GREEN UFO CHASING AIRLINER

ROGUE RIVER -- Jeff Moore a former SR-71 air force mechanic
phoned to report, Out of the south came a streaking object green
colored object that caught up with a commercial airliner and
started playing tag on September 25, 2002, at 10 PM and departed
east. It flew to the left and right of the aircraft. Some of the
passengers must have seen the UFO. Because of this sighting Jeff
got his Night-vision scope and started watching the skies. There
is a regular flight path for airliners flying overhead. Another
UFO was picked up in the Night-vision scope about 8:15 PM, on
September 28, he and his wife saw a high speed object that
appeared lower than the airplane but passed just underneath the
commercial airliner. Thanks to Jeff Moore.

WASHINGTON HIGH-SPEED CRAFT

SPOKANE -- At 4:51 AM, I was looking at a cluster of 7 stars
just ahead of the constellation of Orion on September 20, 2002.
I was trying to see how many I could count when three objects
streaking south crossed the sky. There were no lights, though
the objects were whitish-gray in color. They were not
illuminated. These things were moving at supersonic speed,
faster than any fighter ever flown on this planet, but were
slower than shooting stars. Suddenly, the middle object shot
left, then right again, splitting the other two. No craft on
earth can make that turn at those G-forces. All three objects
were gone within five seconds. It was the dandiest thing I've
ever seen. These were not lights, nor even lighted craft; these
were craft that were illuminated only by moonlight. They were
solid yet there was no trail left and no sound. [
http://www.nationalufocenter.com/files/2002/index.php?id=73 ]FF
UFO CENTER PHOTOS

SEATTLE -- The witness spotted streaking objects with a smoke
steam tail that appeared just above the horizon, just before
sunrise on September 28, 2002. He said, "The first appeared at
6:50 AM, and the second at about 7:10 AM. I observed both with a
low-power telescope and could see the plume of smoke/steam
trailing as the objects burned in descent. Both appeared first
as brilliant points of light, becoming comet-like in appearance
as they descended. My guess is that they were satellite debris.
Both left cloud remnants that were brightly illuminated by the
rising sun.

HAWAII GREEN FIREBALL FALL FROM THE SKY.

HONOLULU -- We were having party at my back yard on September
28, 2002, and three of us saw a "green fireball" fall down from
the sky very fast at 9:27 PM. It was very bright and clear. The
fireball seemed to have a round/circle shape. Thanks to Peter
Davenport [ http://www.ufocenter.com/ ]NUFORC

FLYING TRIANGLE HOVERS OVER IRELAND

A young woman called to report that she and her son had been
witness to a very peculiar flying triangular-shaped object, with
lights in its corners, on September 23, 2002. It was hovering
near their home, and in the vicinity of a nearby highway. Mother
and son witnessed the peculiar object for several minutes, at
which time it suddenly accelerated, and moved out of their sight
very quickly. Thanks to [ http://www.ufocenter.com/ ]NUFORC

NETHERLANDS TWELVE UFOs WITH BEAUTIFUL COLORS

OOSTERHOUT -- On September 19, 2002, the witness noticed some
beautiful colors in the sky at 10:23 PM. He states, "It was
beautiful, all those colors and shapes; I've never seen anything
like this before." It was first something like a square, then it
began to change into a perfect bowl. Nothing stepped out of
those 'ships', but I'm sure it was something extraterrestrial.
It's just unbelievable, I can't describe it. It had an aura
around it, that was amazing. It kept on changing colors, the
beauty of it was unbelievable!

ITALY WHITE BODY TEARDROP SHAPED UFO

GENOA -- The witness reports seeing a white teardrop shaped
object high in the western sky at 7:30 PM, on September 20,
2002. He says, "I was watching it with a non powerful telescope,
and it did not seem to have a rough surface. Unfortunately, the
teardrop got covered by clouds soon after I discovered it.

AZERBAIJAN DISK

NAXCIVAN -- The witness reports, "My friends own the Internet
Cafe and I closed up late that night. It had been raining, but
the rain stopped as I left the cafe at 3:30 AM, on September 25,
2002. It was a very dark night, and I looked up and saw a big X
like a disc hovering above us. WOW, it was very big. It was so
big that it didn't allow the rain to fall on us. I think it was
500 to 600 meters in diameter and it was hovering over the city.
I saw one man shoot his pistol about eight times at the object,
and it started to move away. Then it started to rain again. The
police came and arrested the man. I'm 100% sure this was a UFO.

INDIA FLYING BOOMERANG SIGHTED

NEW DELHI -- This to inform you that on September 20, 2002, at
2000 hours, I noticed an amazing thing in sky and for a moment I
was in doubt what it was, but I was able to realize that it
could be a UFO. Because, this thing was totally different from
any type of airplane or spaceship I have known so far. Also the
thing was certainly not an airplane it was too large. The shape
of the UFO was triangular, basically it was in a shape of
boomerang. I could see the lights on that boomerang in zigzag
form. If you want some more detail just contact me.

AUSTRALIA UFO SHOOTS UP PAST OFFICE BUILDING

ADELAIDE -- On September 30, 2002, on Monday, at 1 PM a large
circular object, grey/white in color was seen by the witness
shooting straight up. It went out of view as it shot up past the
third floor of the office building as the witness walked past.
While facing north the object shot directly past the office
window. The object moved so fast, no specific details were
observed apart from its general colour/shape/size. The object
seemed about 75 meters from the building and was about 10-40
meters in diameter. The more I thought about this, the stranger
the sighting seemed. As I say it, I said to my colleague "Hey,
did you see that?" My collage turned around just in time to miss
the event -- everyone else in the office on that floor seemed
preoccupied. The US Ambassador was a guest speaker in our
building two days later. Thanks to Sue in Australia.

BOEING PLANS TO BUILD BIGGEST-EVER PELICAN

Joe Stefula reports Boeing plans to build the world's largest
aircraft called the Pelican, capable of delivering battle tanks
directly into a war zone. Its wingspan will be more than 500
feet compared to an 747 wingspan of 195 feet. It will be able to
fly 14,000 tons of cargo more than 10,000 miles and will be
designed to fly 50 feet above the ocean, using the buoyant
aerodynamic effect of flying close to the water to provide its
maximum economic range. It will be able them to deliver
thousands of troops, tanks and aid anywhere in the world in a
fraction of the time presently taken by cargo ships. The Pelican
has the capacity to carry up to 17 main battle tanks, which each
weigh more than 50 tons.

The largest military cargo aircraft in service at present is the
Russian Antonov 225, which has a range of 2,800 miles. The
Pelican would land and take off on civilian or military runways
like a conventional aircraft but it has up to 38 sets of landing
gear and 76 tires to spread the weight more evenly. Powered by
four advanced turboprop engines, it would be capable of cruising
over land at up to 20,000 feet, although its maximum
effectiveness would be over water. Blaine Rawdon, the Pelican
project manager, said: "It will be much faster than ships at a
fraction of the operational cost of commercial aircraft.

YOU ARE A PREFERRED CUSTOMER AT 100 TOP STORES ONLINE

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exactly to your specifications? Consider shopping at: [
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stores such as Ashlane Gift Baskets, Books, Diamonds, Disney,
Sweaters from Elizabeth's by Liz Claiborne, Fragrances, Hallmark
cards and flowers, Jewelry, Spiegel, Customatix Shoes, Toy
Chest, Wine. Com. For your Health and Nutrition Store there are
unbelievable products to obtain optimum health. My hair is
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]FILER.unfranchise.com Click: Become a Perferred custo mer

FREE RELOCATION SERVICE FOR OUR READERS

If your thinking of moving or buying or selling a home any where
in the United States. Let my wife and I help you. Many of the
largest companies use our service. Just contact us at [
Majorstar@aol.com ]Majorstar@aol.com

UFO DEFENSE TACTICS - WEATHER SHIELD TO CHEMTRAILS

A. K. Johnstone, Ph.D., explores with evidence, the creation of
a weather shield to deter UFOs from entering earth's atmosphere,
as well as the erratic weather changes in recent years. Numerous
UFO sightings are examined from a scientific viewpoint,
including plasma sheaths and fireballs. Order illustrated book,
$14.95 from Hancock House 1-800-938-1114.

NEW JERSEY CONFERENCE

Pat Marcatillio is holding a UFO conference in Bordentown, NJ on
October 12 and 13 at the Days' Inn. Ingo Swann, David Jacobs,
Tom Van Flandern, Jim Moseley, Bruce Maccabee and others will be
speaking. Details are at--http://www.drufo.org.

SCIFI.COM -- "Join me for an online chat Wednesday, October 9,
at 9 p.m. ET, 6 p.m. PT, at [ http://www.scifi.com/ ]Sci.Fi.com
We'll discuss UFO sightings and I'll be available to answer your
questions.

MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative
reports subscribe to the MUFON JOURNAL. A MUFON membership
includes the Journal and costs only $35.00 per year. To join
MUFON or to report a UFO go to http://www.mufon.com/. To ask
questions contact MUFONHQ@aol.com or HQ@mufon.com. Mention that
I recommended you for membership.

Filer's Files is copyrighted 2002 by George A. Filer, all rights
reserved. Readers may post the complete files on their Web Sites
if they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list
the date of issue that the item appeared. These reports and
comments are not necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON viewpoint. Send
your letters to Majorstar@aol.com. Sending mail automatically
grants permission for us to publish and use your name. Please
state if you wish to keep your name, address, or story
confidential. CAUTION, MOST OF THESE ARE INITIAL REPORTS AND
REQUIRE FURTHER INVESTIGATION.

Regards, George Filer

http://www.filersfiles-ufo.com











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   Oct > Oct 10

                     Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Gonzalez Manso

From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm@arrakis.es>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 23:25:52 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 05:56:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Gonzalez Manso


 >From: Gregory Gutierez <greguti@free.fr>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 00:15:27 +0200
 >Subject: Re: Symbols [UMMO]

 >Finally, add to it the impressive work of Pollion on the Ummo
 >langage (which is not a langage as english or french, but a
 >codified langage to describe things without any hint of
 >subjectivity, just like machines or computers speaking together)
 >and you have here something like 1500 pages of savage and
 >intriguing piece of litterature

Let me offers an example taken from their very first message:

OA DO DO IA KAAWAEA UMMO UMMO UMMO
DO UMMO DO DO UMMO UMMO DO DO DO
DO UMMO UMMO DO DO UMMO

According to them, they use a bi-lenguage. They say that they
can express two trains of ideas simultaneously, one thru the
phonemes themselves and the other thru an statistical-
  mathematical function related with their repetition

Its translation into English would be:

We come from Ummo and we have made this voyage to study your
culture/ We do not want to harm you, be reassured.

We come from Ummo/We have arrived with our craft south of
France.

We come from Ummo/We need food urgently.

Do you find anything unusual? The answer, next time.

Yours,

Luis R. Gonzalez Manso








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   Oct > Oct 10

             Gleason [was: Are We Really Ready For Disclosure?]

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 21:53:40 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 06:09:21 -0400
Subject: Gleason [was: Are We Really Ready For Disclosure?]


 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 12:06:16 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Are We Really Ready For Disclosure?

 >>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 18:51:05 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: Are We Really Ready For Disclosure?

 >>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 15:05:33 -0400
 >>>Subject: Re: Are We Really Ready For Disclosure?

 >>>Jackie Gleason was also shown dead aliens by his friend
 >>>Richard Nixon during the last days of his Presidency

 >>>I've been hearing this one for years. Does anybody know if
 >>>there is any truth to it? I've always considered it a kind of
 >>>'urban legend'. I'm just curious if any one knows anything
 >>>about this particular walnut.

 >>I believe that Jackie Gleason's widow mentions this episode in a
 >>biography of her late husband. It's only a small tangent, but
 >>it's fairly well known that Gleason was very interested in UFOs
 >>and reportedly had a home built in the shape of one.

 >Jackie Gleason was indeed a UFO buff. He also had a keen
 >interest in psychic phenomena. His views, while sympathetic,
 >were also hard-headed, and he was not a credulous enthusiast.
 >(See, for example, the amusing account in Long John Nebel's The
 >Way Out World concerning Gleason's confrontation with contactee
 >George King.) He subscribed to two magazines with which I have
 >been associated, Fate and International UFO Reporter.

 >In the latter context, I have a small anecdote related to the
 >above crashed-saucer tale. One day in the mid-1980s, when CUFOS'
 >office was still in Glenview, Illinois, and (the now-deceased)
 >Sherman Larsen ran it, someone from Gleason's office called to
 >inquire about the status of JG's IUR subscription. After digging
 >out the requested information, Larsen couldn't resist asking
 >about the story that Nixon had shown Gleason alien bodies.
 >Gleason's spokesman said that was a fiction that an ex-wife had
 >made up to get attention and sell her book.

 >On the other hand, one of Gleason's biographers claims that it
 >was probably a tall tale JG concocted to tell his wife, to
 >explain away a tryst with one of his girl friends.

 >For a number of reasons, I find the story pretty hard to
 >believe. It seems highly unlikely that even a President could
 >bring an unauthorized civilian into a secure site holding
 >secrets of the alleged magnitude. Since no independent evidence
 >seems to exist and the source of the anecdote is of uncertain
 >reliability, the story should be regarded, in my judgment, as
 >little more than yet more saucer folklore.

 >Jerry Clark

Jerry and list,

I, too, find the story hard to believe on similar grounds. No
way would Gleason have been allowed access to such super-secret
information. I am not even aware of any evidence that Nixon was
interested in UFOs and/or took them seriously.

Gleason also was a member of NICAP and was eager to have every
publication we ever issued. I, too, received phone calls from
his secretary or representative inquiring about publications.
There is no doubt about his strong interest.

Yet, even when NICAP fell on hard times and was desperately
trying to raise money to continue, Gleason never contributed
anything over and above his $5.00 or $7.50 membership.

Steve Allen once contributed $25 through the intervention of a
mutual friend. Ray Walston ("My Favorite Martian") contributed
more than both of them combined!

My experience is that celebrities generally are cheapskates.


- Dick










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                      UFO Sightings Connected To Lakes?

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 01:31:30 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 06:27:18 -0400
Subject: UFO Sightings Connected To Lakes?


Source:

http://english.pravda.ru/main/2002/10/09/37935.html

Stig

***

2002.10.09/12:40

Killer Lakes Waiting for More Victims

*

The civilized world shuddered when informed about a terrible
crime in October 1994. The Young and attractive American, Susan
Smith from North Carolina deliberately (as the court discovered
later) let her car containing her two sons roll down a boat ramp
into John D. Long Lake. Susan's two children, were fastened with
security belts and drown. Susan later had to stand trial and she
was sentenced to life imprisonment for the premeditated murder.

However, tragic stories at the lake still continued to occur
after that tragedy. Two years later, a car containing three
adults and four childen fell into the lake from the same boat
ramp. Witnesses said the car spontaneously rolled down the ramp
between the memorials to Susan's drowned sons and dropped into
the water. All seven occupants drowned.

Local citizens are convinced that John D. Long Lake has been
spell-bound a very long time. Judicial authorities ignore this
fact and won't review Susan Smith's case.

Whitney Lake in Texas is considered the most ruthless American
lake. Police have found dozens of cars on its bottom which have
rolled into the water spontaneously, despite the fact the
parking brakes were on. No passengers were found in the cars.
Local citizens say they often see UFOs in the area and have
found spots burnt out after UFO landings near the lake.

America's close neighbor Canada is also filled with predatory
lakes. Here is one true story which was studied several times by
specialists. American and Canadian newspapers wrote extensively
about the accident and video clips were shown on TV. In June
1966, an elderly couple and their teenage son went fishing to
Anion Lake situated among deserted sand-pits. Upon setteling
down on the lake shore unbelievably sinister darkness covered
them. They were overcome by a foul odor and suddenly the boy
disappeared. Despite all efforts, the boy wasn't found in the
darkness. Instantly, the sky began to clear up and the parents
saw their son. He told his parents he had seen some round plane,
but couldn't recollect what happened next. Within a few days,
the boy fell seriously ill and suffered from mental problems for
the rest of his life.

Lake Nahuel Huapi, surrounded with snow-clad mountain peaks in
the Argentinean Andes, is 26,000 square kilometers in size and
has a depth of 400 meters. The lake constantly emits a strange
light and a monster known to people since the 18th century is
said to be living there. King of Spain, Charles IV, organized an
expedition to catch the monster, but it brought no success. In
1997, Argentinean speleologist Julio Aguaro discovered large
round paw prints 50 centimeters in diameter. Scientists
calculated the weight of the strange creature to be several
tons. Local police told the scientists they had seen the monster
several times and heard him growling.

The mountain ridge Cordillera Azur (Blue Lakes) in South America
runs parallel to the Andes and abounds with cold lakes and
lagoons where South American Indians speaking the Quechua
language live. Artists like this place because of its
picturesque beauty. Recently, photographers and ufologists
created great interest to the area as well. Lake Hyalo is in an
out-of-the-way place, in a waterlogged area where people seldom
come. Several years ago UFO's picked the place for visits.
Scientists visited the place and found out that UFO's actually
haunted the lake. Local indians observe UFO's almost regularly
at 6 a.m. and within 3:00 -- 4:00 p.m. Several times, they
observed luminous objects drop in the water or fly out of the
lake. The objects were round, oval, rectangular or circular and
they easily penetrated the water. Sometimes, these objects would
hover over the lake or slowly move along the mountain sides,
then suddenly soar up and disappear. Indians quite naturally
believe that these are the evil doings of witches and sorcerers.

Lake Erie is one of America's Great Lakes. A nuclear power plant
is situated on the lake shores near Perry. The scientific center
studying UFO's often gets information from people who witness
unidentified luminous objects of different shapes and sizes near
the nuclear power plant. All reports were thoroughly
investigated and confirmed. We would like to tell the most
interesting one.

A woman who wished to remain anonymous, drove her car past Perry
on March 4, 1998. Suddenly she saw an object resembling a
dirigible hover above the lake; lights were glowing on both
sides of the object. It was slowly hovering in the air at the
height of about 100 meters. When the woman drove home she told
the story to her husband. The couple immediately left for the
lake. Lake Erie was covered with ice, but the ice cracked under
the dirigible's weight when it landed on the lake and began to
receive small luminous objects on board. Some time later, the
object disappeared; it seemed that it went under the water or
merely vanished. Is it possible the dirigible moved to some
parallel world hidden from people's eyes?

Translated by Maria Gousseva

[Link:] Russian UFO portal

**

=A91999 "Pravda.RU". When reproducing our materials in whole or in
part, reference to Pravda.RU should be made.







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                    EW: THEMIS Upgrades Cydonia Flame War

From: Kurt Jonach - The Electric Warrior
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 16:30:37 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 06:29:32 -0400
Subject: EW: THEMIS Upgrades Cydonia Flame War


--------------------------------------------------

The Electric Warrior : Web Log October 9, 2002
http://www.electricwarrior.com/

--------------------------------------------------
 >> THEMIS UPGRADES CYDONIA FLAME WAR
cydonut

artwork: Fortress Cydonia (Mars Matchstick version)
http://www.electricwarrior.com/cydonut/ewMarsMatchstickThumb.jpg

(The Electric Warrior) - In the midst of a heated debate about
the authenticity of recent infrared (IR) data, the THEMIS team
at Arizona State University has released yet another image of
the controversial Cydonia region on Mars. The last time ASU
released a Cydonia image Richard Hoagland of the Enterprise
Mission asserted their own version of the data revealed an
elaborate sunken city on Mars.

THE CYDONIA CLIFF

http://www.electricwarrior.com/mol/ewCydoniaCliff2002.jpg

The new Cydonia image will be of special interest to Mars
anomaly researchers because it provides a view on an enigmatic
feature known as The Cliff. According to Mars anomalists, The
Cliff is interesting because it appears to be a structure
erected on top of the ejecta of a nearby crater.

Normally, you would expect the debris from an impact crater to
cover a nearby landform like The Cliff, or so the argument goes.
Researchers say that The Cliff's straight-line feature suggests
that it was built on top of the ejecta, sometime after the
crater was formed.

The new THEMIS visual image may tell researchers a great deal
more about this proposed scenario, because it provides one of
the most detailed high-level views on this enigma to date. It
looks like the crater ejecta may have simply flowed around The
Cliff.

THE THEMIS SUNKEN CITY CONTROVERSY

Twenty years of animosity toward NASA erupted in an all out
Internet flame war when Richard Hoagland of The Enterprise
Mission accused Mars Odyssey scientists of releasing fraudulent
infrared images of Mars Cydonia.

Not long after a photographic composite of thermal imaging
strips was posted online by the Arizona State University THEMIS
team, Hoagland came forward with his own version of the data
asserting that he now had incontrovertible evidence of a full-
scale subterranean cityscape on Mars.

There are disturbing questions about the provenance of the data
that Team Enterprise has put forth in support of their claims.
But researchers who worry about where that data came from also
question what was done to it before it was distributed.

Mark Carlotto from the Society for Planetary SETI Research
(SPSR) was politely dismissive about TEM's elaborate claims.
Team Enterprise responded by characterizing Carlotto and SPSR as
"self-serving."

BURNING BOATS & BRIDGES BEHIND THEM

Now that the results of Carlotto's investigation have turned out
to be at variance with their own conclusions, Team Enterprise
seemingly wants to pull his pants down and Moon everybody with
an online article saying: They told him how to conduct his
investigation, he didn't do it that way, so obviously he doesn't
know what he's talking about.

"We have no desire to pillory Carlotto any further here," says
TEM, "His own demonstrable lack of true scientific curiosity has
more than accomplished that... we can no longer endorse his
methods, his competence, or even his intellectual honesty on any
issue pertaining to this continuing extraterrestrial artifacts
investigation."

Hoagland should know better. Nobody enjoys this kind of
undignified behavior in an ostensibly scientific context. Fellow
Cydonia researchers can only wonder at the recent hostility
expressed by Team Enterprise.

Humorously speaking, if TEM wants to burn their boats and
bridges behind them, that's fine with me. I'll tag along at a
safe distance, just in case those boys run out of matches.

--------------------------------------------------
RELATED RESOURCES

09-Oct-02
THEMIS: Cydonia Landscape
http://themis.la.asu.edu/zoom-20021009a.html

(ASU) - Note the lobes of ejecta emanating from the large crater
in the upper right of the THEMIS image. This style of ejecta is
thought to arise when an impact occurs into water or ice-rich
material, indicating that at least at the time of the impact
such material was present.

--------------------------------------------------
THE ELECTRIC WARRIOR
October 9, 2002
Silicon Valley, CA
http://www.electricwarrior.com

Graphics & Gonzo

--------------------------------------------------
Images are created exclusively for the Electric
Warrior Website. They can be downloaded and cached
for individual use, but may not be reproduced or
used in any other context without permission.

The Electric Warrior is not responsible for the
content of Web links. Content reproduced here is
for informational purposes only. All copyrights
Acknowledged.

eWarrior@electricwarrior.com



__________________________________________________
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                   Russian Design For A Disc-Shaped Plane

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 01:50:31 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 06:30:50 -0400
Subject: Russian Design For A Disc-Shaped Plane


Source: The Voice Of Russia, science news,

http://www.vor.ru/science/science_eng.html

Stig

***

Design for a disc-shaped plane

The hit of an international investment fair in Vladivostok was a
project by an inventor from the Maritime Territory, Yuri
Bezrukov, to create a new aircraft that would transport up to 5
passengers, weigh 1200 kilograms and would be about six meters
in diameter.

Driven by two engines the aircraft will fly at an altitude of 4
kilometers at a speed of up to 700 kilometers per hour. And it
will be able to fly non-stop one thousand kilometers. The
machine is designed for vertical take-off and vertical landing.
But it will need dozens of times less fuel than the current
vertical take-off aircraft.

**








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   Oct > Oct 10

                  Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 02:50:44 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 06:31:45 -0400
Subject: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair


Source: AP Wire via Bayarea.com,

http://www.bayarea.com/mld/bayarea/4238723.htm

Stig

***

Posted on Tue, Oct. 08, 2002

Spider webs float through Santa Cruz

**

SANTA CRUZ, Calif. - Long, floating spider webs are bobbing
through the skies of Santa Cruz this week, confusing some
community members concerned about biological weapons, UFOs and
other phenomena.

The gossamer-thin, shimmery "sky webs" are between 18 inches and
several feet long, and have been seen drifting through the sky,
sailing along the coastline and, at times, catching on fences or
draping on trees.

The webs come from young spiders that launch themselves on their
homemade parachutes after hatching to be blown to a new home.

Independent television producer Bob Andruszkiewicz said he
called police after becoming worried about biological weapons,
"but then I thought, why would they pick Santa Cruz?"

People looking for UFOs have called the gossamer webs "angel
hair" and "aerial anomalies." Web sites say it could be an
indication of extraterrestrial beings or a spirit presence.

No such thing, said University of Wyoming molecular biology
professor Randy Lewis, a leader in spider web research.

"It's not a government plot or anything," he said. "This is just
a way for spiders to get out and find a new place to live."

In Wyoming, said Lewis, dozens of the webs can been seen
floating across the prairie in the spring.

"Nobody out here would probably even think about it," he said.

**

=A9 2001 bayarea and wire service sources. All Rights Reserved.

http://www.bayarea.com






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   Oct > Oct 10

                    Hollywood's Zane In Crop Circle Movie

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 03:06:27 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 06:33:05 -0400
Subject: Hollywood's Zane In Crop Circle Movie


Source: novinite.com, which is the Bulgarian news.com,

http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=14770

Stig

***

Hollywood's Billy Zane Stars in Movie Shot in Bulgaria

2002-10-08

**

Hollywood star Billy Zane arrives in Sofia on Tuesday to join
the rest of the cast in his newest movie. The film tells a story
that features the mysterious crop circles found in grain fields
all over the world and often connected to extraterrestrial
activity. The first footage was shot on Monday in the American
College in Sofia and at the Sofia-Plovdiv highway. With Zane
onboard, the cinema people will move to a maize field near the
town of Radomir. The movie casts Bulgarian actors. Producers of
the new Zane's movie from U.S. company UFO from have made
thirteen movies in Bulgaria. However, the co- producers from one
of Europe's largest producing companies, Senator, work in the
country for the first time.

**

All rights reserved, 2001-2002 (c) Novinite Ltd. You are
permitted to use any of the articles in this message only if you
kindly quote the source - Novinite.com.








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              Re: 'Fox in Focus! UFOs: Proof of Life?' - Caput

From: Scott Caput <scaput@bellsouth.net>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 23:01:45 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 06:37:13 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Fox in Focus! UFOs: Proof of Life?' - Caput


 >From: Dave Haith <visions@ntlworld.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 10:10:13 +0100
 >Subject: Re: 'Fox in Focus! UFOs: Proof of Life?'

 >>From: Scott Caput <scaput@bellsouth.net>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 10:54:16 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: 'Fox in Focus! UFOs: Proof of Life?'

<snip>

Thank you Dave and Bob. I agree it fell short of the coverage
and efforts that this subject deserves, but I think it was an
honest effort.

Scott








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                         Space Center Houston Review

From: Rebecca Keith <rebeccas@airmail.net>
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 22:00:46 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 06:39:53 -0400
Subject: Space Center Houston Review


Source: The Houston Press

www.houstonpress.com/issues/2002-10-10/calendar2.html/1/index.html

Space Center & Me
Or, how I learned to stop caring and accept the dumb
by Dylan Otto Krider


A bird's-eye view of bullshit.


"Crop Circles"
Details: Through January 5. 10 a.m. to 6 p.m. Saturdays through
Sundays; 10 a.m. to 5 p.m. Mondays through Fridays. $15.95,
$11.95 for children. 281-244-2100.
Where: 1601 NASA Rd. 1

Every clique has an "out" group that insiders make fun of. For
stoners, it's kickers; for kickers, it's hipsters. When I was a
research assistant during my brief stint as an astrophysics
major, our whipping boys of choice were the UFO believers and
perpetuators of the theory that aliens built the pyramids. Our
views of these "pseudoscientists" varied from mild amusement to
fear their wackiness could bring about the end of civilization.

Ironically, the first story I ever wrote for the Houston Press
turned out to be on the Roswell exhibit at Space Center Houston.
I had expected the alien angle to be simply a way to lure people
in, at which point they would discuss NASA's search for microbes
on Mars. What I found instead was the center's CEO calling the
few informational plaques on display "wall candy," used to
justify his latex masks and spaceships. He had no problem
peddling NASA conspiracy; it was the science he took issue with.

The argument for privatizing Space Center was that the
organization could become more efficient without compromising
its original mission. Every compromise that followed has been
excused as "what the people want." There was "Extreme Sports,"
then a tribute to farts and burps called "Grossology" (the least
offensive, since it passed on real information about biology).
But none could equal the Roswell exhibit -- until now.

It would not be possible to come up with an exhibit more at odds
with everything a research institution like NASA stands for than
"Crop Circles." A TV documentary -- which, scientists complained
to The Dallas Morning News, creatively edits their "this is
crap" answers to make them look like supporters of this kind of
madness -- plays in the background. The walls display official-
looking newspaper clippings, which use fancy terminology like
"plasma" and "magnetic fields." Exactly two of them express what
most scientists believe, which is that those groups that
admitted to pressing down the cornstalks with boards weren't
lying. They are adjacent to an article that says "scientists"
are angry that these "hoaxters" trivialize the idea of alien
origins. (No, scientists fear crop circles delegitimize honest
scientific pursuits like SETI.)

Where have these articles appeared in print? Nowhere. They were
written by the exhibit curator, taken mostly from the book Vital
Signs, by Andy Thomas.

Among the quotes used to push the idea of alien creation is Carl
Sagan's "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." What
Space Center fails to mention is that Sagan devoted much of his
career to debunking claims of UFO visitation. This particular
quote is from Sagan's "Baloney Detection Kit"; it's given as an
example of common logical fallacies pseudoscientists use to sell
you a line of bullshit.

For Space Center, the mandate to "bring people in" has gone
beyond movie tie-ins. They now feel obligated to trump up and
sell ideas that NASA scientists give absolutely zero credence.
And they're getting more visitors as a result. But understand:
Space Center Houston has nothing to do with science. It's about
selling tickets, even if they have to sell out NASA to do it.








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                         Re: Math vs. Moore - Gates

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 01:18:41 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 06:43:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Math vs. Moore - Gates


 >From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Math vs. Moore [was: Rudiak vs. Moore]
 >Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 01:52:31 -0700

 >>From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 19:51:21 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Rudiak vs. Moore - Fleming

 >>>From: Bruce Hutchinson <bhutch@grassyhill.com
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 19:12:58 -500
 >>>Subject: Rudiak vs. Moore

<snip>

 >Moore built his table for Flight #4 out of two sets of basic
 >wind data. One was the winds determined from an Orogrande
 >weather station 32 miles south of Alamogordo. However, this only
 >went to 46,000 feet. So Moore spliced in wind data from Flight
 >#5 the next day in the upper atmosphere between 46,000 and
 >60,000 feet. I have no major problem with that. You go with what
 >you got.

If I make an observation here. Apparently Bruce and Printy don't
seem to mind the fact that Moore spliced data from two flights
to come up with his conclusion, wrong as it is. That being the
case, is it acceptable for a pro-UFO person to mix and match
data (even if its only 24 hours old) and advance a pro-UFO
theory?

Obviously if this was a pro-UFO case the skeptibunkers would be
all over this blathering about how untrustworthy data is when
you mix and match, they would then be advancing the notion that
we could only trust the data that happened the same day;
naturally, if any data even hinted at being analyized wrongly,
as Moore did, they would be all over the inconsistency claiming
it negates the case, blah, blah, blah.

Can't you just hear it all???

Cheers,

Robert








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                             Re: Gleason - Gates

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 01:23:59 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 06:45:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Gleason - Gates


 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 12:06:16 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Are We Really Ready For Disclosure?

<snip>

 >For a number of reasons, I find the story pretty hard to
 >believe. It seems highly unlikely that even a President could
 >bring an unauthorized civilian into a secure site holding
 >secrets of the alleged magnitude. Since no independent evidence
 >seems to exist and the source of the anecdote is of uncertain
 >reliability, the story should be regarded, in my judgment, as
 >little more than yet more saucer folklore

Keep in mind that I think the Gleason story is in the same
league as mass landings in the desert SW on April 24th 1997, and
the much claimed and talked about ET landing that was going to
happen on a mountain top in Arizona in Dec of 2000.

Slight disagreement with Jerry. If a President of the United
States wanted to take his best buddy to some AFB to show them
something Top Secret, who would be in authority to stop the
President?


Cheers,

Robert








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             Re: UFOs On Richard & Judy Ch.4 & Meridian Tonight

From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 08:25:13 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 06:47:48 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs On Richard & Judy Ch.4 & Meridian Tonight


 >From: Geoff Richardson <geoff@fastdog.karoo.co.uk>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 15:07:03 +0100
 >Subject: Re: UFOs On Richard & Judy Ch.4 & Meridian Tonight [UK]

Good Morning Geoff

Thank you for your reply, both on and off-List.

 >>So please, define what/who/etc you mean by "utter garbage".

 >I was not referring to a programme concerning Chris - I did not
 >even post the comment to relate to Chris.

 >Geoff

I take it from your comment then that your reference to "utter
garbage" was to the Richard & Judy show, in which case I
heartily agree.


Regards

Sean
Who at present thinks the "new" Tonbridge photo is a fake!

--

    In an infinite universe, infinitely anything is possible.
                         Sean Jones
               http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/







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                  EW: Carlotto Finds Possible Ruins on Mars

From: Kurt Jonach - The Electric Warrior" <eWarrior@electricwarrior.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 02:31:16 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 06:49:32 -0400
Subject: EW: Carlotto Finds Possible Ruins on Mars


From: The Electric Warrior ()

--------------------------------------------------

The Electric Warrior : Web Log October 10, 2002
http://www.electricwarrior.com/

--------------------------------------------------
 >> CARLOTTO FINDS POSSIBLE RUINS ON MARS
martian enigmas

image: Martian Rubble
http://www.electricwarrior.com/mol/CarlottoMarsRubble.jpg

(The Electric Warrior) - Even if you've had your fill of the
recent controversy involving infrared images captured by Arizona
State University's Mars Odyssey team, it wouldn't hurt to take a
look at one more shot of Cydonia.

Mark Carlotto, whose New Frontiers in Science Web site examines
Martian enigmas like the Face on Mars, has published an analysis
of the region based on a second multispectral image by THEMIS.
As Carlotto tells it, not only should the existence of a second
THEMIS image settle issues of authenticity raised by the
Enterprise Mission, it also raises further questions about the
possibility of extraterrestrial design on Mars.

Carlotto used two different bands of imaging data that were just
different enough to produce a stereo image of an area that
includes the Mars Face as well as a rock-strewn area some 120
kilometers to the south.

The broken features appear to lie in rectangular arrangements
that suggest intelligent design. "On Earth, in the Middle East
for example, it would certainly be seen as a possible
archaeological site," writes Carlotto. "But it is on Mars."

BUILDING CONSENSUS

Building a case for artificiality on Mars that even NASA can't
dismiss takes time, and Carlotto would probably tell  you he
thinks he's doing his part. He isn't doing too bad. His new
online article shows a side-by-side comparison of the new THEMIS
data and the highly controversial data set released last July.

The July data is said to contain indisputable evidence of a
subterranean cityscape on Mars. The only problem with that
conclusion is that it relies on a special version of the THEMIS
data which Richard Hoagland says the Enterprise Mission acquired
under mysterious circumstances.

TEM's assertions also come with so much more. In a recent
interview Hoagland went so far as to say that the mysteries of
Cydonia point to an extraordinary ancient heritage for humans
that somehow reaches all the way back to Mars. "In a way, I see
the ultimate confirmation of our heritage on Mars as essential
to ushering in a new day here on Earth," Hoagland told Dark
Planet.

Carlotto's work has never carried that much baggage.

To understand the context of Carlotto's investigation it helps
to recall statements by the SETI Institute's Dr. Jill Tarter.
"It's possible that there could be, in fact, within our solar
system, some evidence of ET technology," Tarter recently told
Space.com. "They may be here."

Tarter didn't say exactly where we might find evidence of
extraterrestrial activity in our own solar system, noting only
that we haven't gathered that much information. Carlotto and the
Society for Planetary SETI Research say it's worthwhile looking
on Mars. That's why Carlotto finds his apparent Martian rubble
so interesting. "Will this new discovery be dismissed as another
optical illusion, like the Face about 120 kilometers to the
north?"

Carlotto closes his article by inviting planetary scientists at
ASU, JPL and NASA to consider the possibility that the growing
list of weird alignments and symmetries may not be coincidence
after all. He also asks why Cydonia has been targeted so often
so early in the mission if no one is taking it seriously:
"Perhaps this recent interest in  Cydonia is an indication that
someone already has."

--------------------------------------------------
RELATED RESOURCES

09-Oct-02
ASU Releases Second THEMIS Multispectral Image over Cydonia
http://newfrontiersinscience.com/cydoniacontroversy/updates/secondTHEMIS/secondT
HEMIS.html

(New Frontiers in Science) - Will this new discovery be
dismissed as another optical illusion, like the Face about 120
kilometers to the north? Or might some brave planetary scientist
at ASU, JPL, or NASA finally consider the possibility that the
growing list of 'coincidences' of symmetries, alignments, and
enigmatic features may not be a coincidence after all. Perhaps
this recent interest in Cydonia is an indication that someone
already has.

--------------------------------------------------
THE ELECTRIC WARRIOR
October 10, 2002
Silicon Valley, CA
http://www.electricwarrior.com

Graphics & Gonzo

--------------------------------------------------
The Martian Rubble image is copyright Mark Carlotto.

The Electric Warrior is not responsible for the
content of Web links. Content reproduced here is
for informational purposes only. All copyrights
Acknowledged.

eWarrior@electricwarrior.com








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                    Einhorn Defense To Invoke Paranormal

From: Joel Carpenter <imagery@covad.net>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 09:14:00 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 18:47:54 -0400
Subject: Einhorn Defense To Invoke Paranormal


Source: The Philadelphia Inquirer

http://www.phillynews.com

Posted on Wed, Oct. 09, 2002    Einhorn defense to invoke
paranormal Inside By Jennifer Lin Inquirer Staff Writer


One courtroom wag at the Ira Einhorn murder trial dubbed it the
X-Files defense.

And as a legal tack, it's a doozy.

With the trial shifting to the defense today, Einhorn will argue
that he was framed for the beating death of Holly Maddux because
he knew too much about secret mind-control weapons. Einhorn has
maintained that unknown persons put a trunk with Maddux's
mummified body in his closet, resulting in his arrest in 1979.

"He thinks he stepped on toes in doing this mind-control
research and paranormal, psychological research," said William
Cannon, Einhorn's lawyer.

"But he's going to have to sell that to the jury," Cannon said
yesterday. "He absolutely has to be able to give to the jury the
possibility that people wanted to embarrass him and put him in a
predicament where he would basically be out of the way.

"If he can't do that," Cannon added, "he has no hope for an
acquittal, because the body in the trunk is too overwhelming as
a piece of circumstantial evidence."

In a nine-page, handwritten essay that Einhorn wrote last month
- titled "A Snapshot of My 70s" - he gives a preview of what's
to come when he takes the witness stand, possibly as soon as
tomorrow.

He painted himself as "a social change agent, consultant,
futurist and learner" who was on the verge of greatness when he
was arrested.

"I was busted for a murder I did not commit and all my work on
mind control and free energy became history," Einhorn wrote from
his cell.

In the essay, which was circulated via e-mail to supporters and
the media before the Common Pleas Court trial, Einhorn dropped
more names than a gossip columnist - from City Councilman W.
Thacher Longstreth to futurist Alvin Toffler and a mysterious
"Prince of Iran."

He portrayed himself as a peripatetic '70s activist, involved in
the antiwar movement and black empowerment, as well as
investigating the CIA and the heroin trade, UFOs, and President
John F. Kennedy's assassination.

But he explained how his trouble began with his exploration into
"psychotronic mind-control weaponry." So-called psychotronic
weapons, popular in science fiction, allegedly harness
telepathic power and radio waves to control and influence people
from afar.

George Smith, a technology writer in Pasadena, Calif., who edits
the online Crypt Newsletter, said these weapons simply do not
exist.

Smith, who focuses on issues involving national security and
technology, said psychotronic weaponry was a pop subject during
the Cold War era that gave way in the 1990s to talk of
"electromagnetic pulse guns."

With both, Smith said, no one has been able to take talk and
theories and construct actual weapons, subject to scientific
scrutiny.

"You never see any examples of any devices that can do the kinds
of things that are described," Smith said. "It's the domain of
charlatans and the gullible."

He added that in the '60s and '70s, military and intelligence
agencies did fund research on such paranormal topics as
telepathy, but those projects went nowhere. "The evidence is
that the FBI and CIA can't get inside everyone's head and don't
have psychotronic powers," Smith said.

"Psychotronic? Never heard of it," said Lt. Col. Jimmy Wyrick,
executive officer of the U.S. Army Research Institute for
Behavioral and Social Sciences in Washington. "Sounds kind of
far-fetched."

At the Washington office of the publisher of Jane's Defence
Weekly, a magazine about military news and weaponry, editors
opted to steer clear.

"We do not have any information on this topic, or any editors
who could verify whether such weaponry exists," said Melissa
Golding, a Jane's spokeswoman.

Einhorn, however, said he believed his life was in danger
because of his mind-control research. He said he received
reports from inside the Soviet Union about mind-control devices
"so chilling that I only shared some of the content, not the
actual reports, with two people."

Einhorn also wrote that he had enlisted the former president of
the Franklin Institute, Bowen Dees, to work with him on a
conference in honor of Nikola Tesla, an inventor and electrical
engineer. Einhorn claimed that Tesla worked on mind-control and
free-energy devices that created energy without using fuel.

Dees, now retired in Southern California, was surprised to learn
of his mention in Einhorn's statement.

"Ira was an interesting character," said Dees, who headed the
institute from 1970 to 1982. "But my interaction with him was
minimal."

Einhorn wrote that in the '70s, he also got involved in the
"Geller project," a reference to Uri Geller, the spoon-bending
psychic. Einhorn said that through this work, he became
convinced of the possibility of "free energy devices... that
would solve our energy problem."

"Unfortunately, all new technology can be used as weaponry as
well as for human benefit," Einhorn wrote. "I was soon up to my
ears in a multi-pronged intelligence game that is still waiting
to be unravelled."

Contact Jennifer Lin

at 215-854-5659 or jlin@phillynews.com







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              Re: Russian Design For A Disc-Shaped Plane - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 14:43:03 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 18:49:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Russian Design For A Disc-Shaped Plane - Hall


 >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 01:50:31 +0200
 >Subject: Russian Design For A Disc-Shaped Plane

 >Source: The Voice Of Russia, science news,

 >http://www.vor.ru/science/science_eng.html

 >Stig

 >Design for a disc-shaped plane

 >The hit of an international investment fair in Vladivostok was a
 >project by an inventor from the Maritime Territory, Yuri
 >Bezrukov, to create a new aircraft that would transport up to 5
 >passengers, weigh 1200 kilograms and would be about six meters
 >in diameter.

 >Driven by two engines the aircraft will fly at an altitude of 4
 >kilometers at a speed of up to 700 kilometers per hour. And it
 >will be able to fly non-stop one thousand kilometers. The
 >machine is designed for vertical take-off and vertical landing.
 >But it will need dozens of times less fuel than the current
 >vertical take-off aircraft.

Powered, no doubt, by magic or wishful thinking. This sounds
like a re-run of the high performance PR 1955 version of the
AVRO disc which, of course, never got beyond ground effect (i.e,
never really got off the ground).

  - Dick








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               Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair -

From: "Richard Hall" <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 14:47:52 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 18:50:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair -


 >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 02:50:44 +0200
 >Subject: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'

 >Source: AP Wire via Bayarea.com,

 >http://www.bayarea.com/mld/bayarea/4238723.htm

 >Stig

 >Posted on Tue, Oct. 08, 2002

 >Spider webs float through Santa Cruz

 >SANTA CRUZ, Calif. - Long, floating spider webs are bobbing
 >through the skies of Santa Cruz this week, confusing some
 >community members concerned about biological weapons, UFOs and
 >other phenomena.

 >The gossamer-thin, shimmery "sky webs" are between 18 inches and
 >several feet long, and have been seen drifting through the sky,
 >sailing along the coastline and, at times, catching on fences or
 >draping on trees.

 >The webs come from young spiders that launch themselves on their
 >homemade parachutes after hatching to be blown to a new home.

 >Independent television producer Bob Andruszkiewicz said he
 >called police after becoming worried about biological weapons,
 >"but then I thought, why would they pick Santa Cruz?"

 >People looking for UFOs have called the gossamer webs "angel
 >hair" and "aerial anomalies." Web sites say it could be an
 >indication of extraterrestrial beings or a spirit presence.

 >No such thing, said University of Wyoming molecular biology
 >professor Randy Lewis, a leader in spider web research.

 >"It's not a government plot or anything," he said. "This is just
 >a way for spiders to get out and find a new place to live."

 >In Wyoming, said Lewis, dozens of the webs can been seen
 >floating across the prairie in the spring.

 >"Nobody out here would probably even think about it," he said.

 >=A9 2001 bayarea and wire service sources. All Rights Reserved.

 >http://www.bayarea.com

Back in the 1950s when NICAP first began studying 'Angel's Hair'
reports in conjunction with CSI of New York, the first thing we
noticed is what Isabel Davis referred to as the "Octoberishness"
of the reports. October is spider migration season in North
America.

  - Dick









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                            Re: Gleason - Sandow

From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 11:07:32 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 18:53:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Gleason - Sandow


 >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 01:23:59 EDT
 >Subject: Re: Gleason

 >Slight disagreement with Jerry. If a President of the United
 >States wanted to take his best buddy to some AFB to show them
 >something Top Secret, who would be in authority to stop the
 >President?

There's an eye-opening story in the memoirs of Charles Colson,
one of Nixon's aides.

One evening, Colson was the ranking staff member on duty at the
White House. He was also young and new to his job. Around 9 PM,
Nixon decided he wanted to go to a show. What was available?
Maybe something at the Kennedy Center, they all thought. So they
tried to call the Kennedy Center to find out what was playing.

That was their first problem. The box office was closed. The
administrative office was closed. Finally they reached a
restaurant at the Kennedy Center. Whoever answered the phone had
trouble believing the president's staff was on the line, but
eventually Colson learned that one of the military bands was
performing that night.

Very suitable for the president, but now there was a second
problem. They had to let the theater know that the president was
coming. The band had to be told to play "Hail to the Chief" when
the president entered his box. (A curious American custom that
list members from other countries are free to giggle at!) This
disrupted the concert. Nobody was happy.

The next morning, the chief of staff, Haldeman, came into work
and heard about what happened. He reprimanded Colson for letting
Nixon cause all that trouble. Nixon, Haldeman said, shouldn't
have been allowed to go to the concert. "The president rattles
the bars of his cage," Haldeman said. "But we can't let him
out."

Presidents aren't nearly as free as we might imagine. Nixon
couldn't simply go by himself to bring his buddy to see the
alien bodies, or whatever he's supposed to have done. The Secret
Service would have to go along. Whoever carried the nuclear
"football" - the device that allows the president to authorize
the use of nuclear weapons, should that be necessary - would
have to go, since this person never leaves the president's
immediate vicinity. The military base where the bodies allegedly
were would have to be notified. A visit from the president is
one of the biggest events that could happen on the base. The
base commander would have to be notified. Plans would have to be
made. Any movement the president makes has to involve an
astonishing number of people, and the arrangements have to be
made by staff aides, whose chief can effectively delay, hamper,
or even forbid some of the things the president wants to do.

High officials tend to be very effective bureaucratic
infighters. The commander of the base where the alien bodies
supposedly were might not have liked the idea of the president
bringing a civilian in, and could oppose it, both overtly and by
sheer stubborn inaction. The president could argue with his
aides (including such high-ranking people as the national
security advisor, who might also be appalled by something like
the Gleason visit). The aides will argue back. The president
can't turn everything into a confrontation. Like anyone in a
bureaucratic situation, even the top people, he or she depends
on good working relations with subordinates. Only rarely can a
president, or any CEO, simply order something to be done when
most or all of other top officials are against it.

There's also President Truman's comment, about what his
successor Eisenhower would find when he took office. "He was the
commander in chief of the Army," Truman said, or words to that
effect. "When he gave orders, they were obeyed. When he's here,
he's going to sit at that desk and tell people what he wants
done - and nothing will happen."

Greg Sandow








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                               Crisis At CUFOS

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 11:15:59 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 18:58:11 -0400
Subject: Crisis At CUFOS


Listfolk:

The continued existence of the J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO
Studies (CUFOS) is in question. By "continued existence" I mean
that CUFOS as it has existed since 1973, when Dr. Hynek and
Sherman J. Larsen created it, may fold within the next few
weeks.

That was the issue discussed at length in the board meeting I
attended in Chicago last Saturday (October 5). Revenue has been
down significantly, and soon it will no longer be possible to
keep the office - with its extensive files and resources, a
world-class collection - open. Already discussions have opened
with a university which has expressed interest in the materials.

CUFOS' principal revenue source is International UFO Reporter
(IUR), published four times a year for $25. IUR is often
described as the best UFO magazine in the English language, with
its emphasis on sober research and analysis. Like most (possibly
all) other UFO journals, however, our subscription base has
eroded over the years, a victim of the Internet and other forces
beyond our control.

Without a substantial number of new subscriptions and renewals
to IUR, CUFOS will be reduced to a kind of skeletal state, at
worst surviving only as an website with occasional articles and
reviews under the IUR title. The archives, with their convenient
central location in Chicago, have been used by ufologists from
all over the world, but they will no longer be available at
their old address.

Allen Hynek started CUFOS as a scientific clearing house for
reliable UFO data. He died in 1986, but those of us who survived
him have done our best to keep his mission alive. We're now
turning to you to make it possible to continue.

If you haven't seen IUR lately, here are the tables of contents
for the past two issues:

Spring 2002:
UFO/Vehicle _Very_ Close Encounters by Mark Rodeghier
Angel Hair: An Australian Perspective by Keith Basterfield
Was There a Second Estimate of the Situation? by Michael Hall
The Trivialist by Jerome Clark
The 1952 Nash/Fortenberry Sighting Revisited by Thomas Tulien

Summer 2002
What's Convincing About UFOs?, by Michael D. Swords
Media Bias and UFOs by Haiko Lietz
Do Nuclear Facilities Attract UFOs? by Donald A. Johnson
Interpreting the Ramey Memo by James Houran & Kevin D. Randle
Cold Case Ufology by Jenny Randles
Letters
Abductees and the Paranormal by Mark Rodeghier

Subscriptions are available for $25 (US) or $30 (non-US) from:

CUFOS,
2457 West Peterson Avenue,
Chicago,
Illinois
60659
USA

Please help us. We need you.

Jerry Clark
CUFOS officer
IUR co-editor








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                            Re: Gleason - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 12:03:31 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 19:02:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Gleason - Kaeser


 >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 01:23:59 EDT
 >Subject: Re: Gleason

<snip>

 >Slight disagreement with Jerry. If a President of the United
 >States wanted to take his best buddy to some AFB to show them
 >something Top Secret, who would be in authority to stop the
 >President?

The framework of bureaucracy would make it very difficult for
even the President to gain access to compartmentalized
information. Few Presidents micro-manage Government operations
and delegate others to handle most matters and report back to
him on what he needs to know (i.e. the daily briefings).
Security agencies learned long ago that politicians were
transients in Goverment operations and rarely gave up much
classified material to those who might use it for political
purposes down the road.

I could add more, but it would begin to sound too political.....
<G>

Steve








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                    Air Traffic Staff See 'Ghost Planes'

From: David  Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 17:45:44 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 19:10:30 -0400
Subject: Air Traffic Staff See 'Ghost Planes'


BBC News online, 10 October 2002

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2316085.stm

AIR TRAFFIC STAFF SEE 'GHOST PLANES'

"Ghost planes" are appearing on computer screens at the new
national air traffic control centre at Swanwick.

It is believed the phantom aircraft, which appear over the North
Sea, are caused by screens showing incorrect radar data.

It is the latest glitch to hit the =A3623m centre in Hampshire
since it opened in January.

A spokesman for National Air Traffic Services (Nats) insisted
safety was not being compromised by the non-existent planes.
Staff warned

The Nats spokesman said: "The ghosting problem has affected only
a few screens and only affects an area of the North Sea. "Safety
has not been compromised, but, nevertheless, we felt it right to
issue a notice to employees."

Nats has now warned controllers at Swanwick of the problem and
told them to keep aircraft further apart than normal if the
phenomenon occurs.

The problem is only one of a number encountered by the multi-
million pound centre.

Recently controllers said they were concerned they might misread
the height of planes because of difficulty in reading numbers on
their screens.

Controllers have said the latest "ghost" problem did not occur
at their centre in West Drayton, west London - the centre that
Swanwick is replacing.








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                          Secrecy News -- 10/10/02

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 12:59:36 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 19:18:24 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 10/10/02


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2002, Issue No. 99
October 10, 2002


**      NATIONAL ACADEMY ON POLYGRAPH TESTING
**      CIA ON IRAQ THREAT
**      PENTAGON BIOWEAPON TESTS ON AMERICANS
**      APPEALS COURT RULES ON SECRET HEARINGS
**      INTELLIGENCE RESPONSE TO PAST TERRORIST ATTACKS
**      FISA MISTAKES DESCRIBED


NATIONAL ACADEMY ON POLYGRAPH TESTING

The polygraph is a flawed instrument that is "intrinsically
susceptible to producing erroneous results," according to a new
report of a National Academy of Sciences panel.

The report, prepared for the Department of Energy, is likely to
lead to the rescinding of polygraph requirements that were
adopted in 1999 to address security defects at the DOE national
laboratories.

The authors distinguish between the use of the polygraph for
generic security screening -- which they find unwarranted -- and
its use in investigations of specific incidents -- for which
they find experimental support in some circumstances.

Methodologically, polygraph screening is not a scientific
procedure that adheres to fixed standards.  Thus, "we have seen
no indication of a clear and stable agreement on criteria for
judging answers to security screening polygraph questions in any
agency using them," the National Academy report stated.

Admittedly, polygraph screening "may be useful" for "deterring
security violations, increasing the frequency of admissions of
such violations, deterring employment applications from
potentially poor security risks, and increasing public
confidence in national security organizations."

However, the utility of the polygraph for these purposes
"derives from beliefs about the procedure's validity, which are
distinct from actual validity or accuracy."

By contributing to the exposure of such unfounded beliefs, the
new report ironically tends to subvert this type of polygraph
utility.

The full text of the new report, "The Polygraph and Lie
Detection," is available in a rather inconvenient format here:

http://www.nap.edu/books/0309084369/html/

The executive summary may also be found on the Antipolygraph.org
site here:

http://www.antipolygraph.org/nas/exec.pdf

Last year, Congress required the Energy Department to prescribe
new polygraph regulations that "take into account" the findings
of the NAS study within six months of its release.  See:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/2001/poly.html

Accordingly, Senators Jeff Bingaman and Pete Domenici called on
Energy Secretary Abraham to heed the study's conclusions.

"Given the findings of the Academy's study and the continuing
dissatisfaction with DOE's existing polygraph program, we urge
you to place high priority on the development of a new,
significantly scaled-back program that focuses on the use of the
polygraph as an interrogation tool and not for employee
screening," the Senators wrote on October 8.

Polygraph screening of current and prospective employees is most
widespread within U.S. intelligence agencies, where it is
generally a precondition for employment involving access to
intelligence information.  As such, it serves as a ritual of
initiation and can generate a sense of camaraderie.

The polygraph examination also functions to acculturate
employees into the values of the intelligence bureaucracy.

So, for example, the Central Intelligence Agency has lately
asked examinees questions such as "Do you have any friends in
the media?" The preferred answer, it is clear, is No.


CIA ON IRAQ THREAT

A U.S. attack on Iraq could prompt Saddam to use chemical or
biological weapons, an action that otherwise has a low
probability, according to a new declassified CIA finding.

"Baghdad for now appears to be drawing a line short of
conducting terrorist attacks with conventional or CBW against
the United States. Should Saddam conclude that a US-led attack
could no longer be deterred, he probably would become much less
constrained in adopting terrorist actions," according to the
CIA.

The new declassifications came in an October 7 letter from DCI
George Tenet to Senate Intelligence Committee chair Sen. Bob
Graham.  See:

http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2002/10/dci100702.html

In a peculiar statement issued the next day, DCI Tenet insisted
that "There is no inconsistency between our view of Saddam's
growing threat and the view as expressed by the President in his
speech."  See:

http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2002/10/dci100802.html


PENTAGON BIOWEAPON TESTS ON AMERICANS

The Pentagon conducted numerous previously undisclosed tests of
highly toxic biological and chemical agents around the country
on unwitting military personnel during the 1960s, according to
newly declassified data released this week.

Even by the standards of the time, the tests represent an
astonishing lapse in scientific and moral judgment.  The
surprisingly muted reaction to the disclosures so far may be an
indication of scandal fatigue or may simply reflect low
expectations of government integrity.

The Pentagon experiments were the subject of a hearing before a
House Veterans' Affairs subcommittee on October 9.  See:

http://veterans.house.gov/hearings/schedule107/oct02/10-9-02/witness.html

The hearing was followed by a Pentagon briefing, transcribed
here:

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Oct2002/t10092002_t1009ha.html

Supplementary material is available here:

   http://deploymentlink.osd.mil/current_issues/shad/shad_intro.s
html


APPEALS COURT RULES ON SECRET HEARINGS

A federal appeals court held that the Bush Administration may
continue to impose blanket secrecy on immigration hearings
involving persons deemed by the Attorney General to have
knowledge of, or connections with, the September 11 terrorist
attacks.

The new decision overturned a lower court ruling which held that
secrecy should be considered on a case by case basis and that
blanket secrecy was impermissible.

The appeals court noted without embarrassment that it found op-
ed columnist Michael Kelly's critique of the lower court ruling
to be "powerful."

The appeals court ruling may be found here:

http://www.ca3.uscourts.gov/recentop/week/022524.pdf

The Washington Post critically assessed the decision in an
October 9 editorial "Keeping Quiet" which is available here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A63343-2002Oct8.html


INTELLIGENCE RESPONSE TO PAST TERRORIST ATTACKS

National security secrecy that is intended to protect the nation
can instead become a threat to the nation when it is employed
mindlessly by U.S. intelligence agencies.

That is one of the findings that emerged from the congressional
Joint Inquiry's continuing dissection of the events leading up
to September 11.

"Poor information systems and the high level of classification
prevented FBI field officers from using NSA and CIA data" needed
for counterterrorism, the Joint Inquiry staff found.

See staff director Eleanor Hill's October 8 statement on "The
Intelligence Community's Response to Past Terrorist Attacks
Against the United States from February 1993 to September 2001"
here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2002_hr/100802hill.html


FISA MISTAKES DESCRIBED

In numerous cases in recent years, FBI agents exceeded their
legal authority and conducted surveillance activities that were
unauthorized under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act
(FISA), according to a newly released FBI memo.

The reported mistakes included the unauthorized videotaping of a
meeting, unauthorized searches, and other excesses.

"To minimize the possibility for [future] errors we instituted
new procedures that would help ensure both accuracy and
oversight," wrote FBI Deputy General Counsel M.E. Bowman to
Congressman William D. Delahunt, who requested the information.

Rep. Delahunt's June 14 inquiry is posted here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/doj/fisa/del061402.pdf

Mr. Bowman's August 7 reply, with attached documentation, is
posted here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/doj/fisa/ec.pdf

_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood@fas.org
voice:  (202) 454-4691







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             Re: Chupacabras Reappears Near Aguas Buenas Puerto

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 13:19:06 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 19:20:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Chupacabras Reappears Near Aguas Buenas Puerto


 >From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 15:59:13 -0400
 >Subject: Chupacabras Reappears Near Aguas Buenas Puerto Rico

 >Source: Primera Hora (Newspaper)
 >Date: October 7, 2002

 >Another Mysterious Attack: Chupacabras Returns
 >by
 >Sara M. Justicia Doll
 >for Primera Hora

 >Only two weeks after being blamed for the deaths of several
 >domestic animals in Ponce, the enigmatic Chupacabras reappeared
t>his time in the Caguitas Centro sector of Aguas Buenas.

 >"When I got home I looked at the cage and didn't see the
 >rabbits. I went downstairs quickly and saw the scene: I had a
 >nervous attack and had to take some pills," said Amarillis
 >Flores, who returned home yesterday morning after having spent
 >the weekend at her daughter's house.

 >Amarillis, who was in charge of the residence, was alarmed when
 >she saw that her grandchildren's pets - two white rabbits, a
 >black duck, a rooster and a hen - lay petrified at the bottom of
 >their cages, located at the rear of the backyard. Neighbor
 >Salvador Rosario said that on Sunday night he noticed that the
 >dogs were very restless, but dismissed the possibility that the
 >canines could have been the cause of the animal deaths, as the
 >cage would require a strength greater than a dog's to tear
 >through the screen.

You would think that after all these strange animal attacks that
someone somewhere would have attempted a DBA study under the
assumption that the Chupa/whatever would have left some of its
own body fluids behind, perhaps in the puncture wounds on the
victims.








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             Re: EMBLA 2002 - Hessdalen Optical & Ground Survey

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 13:19:10 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 19:23:35 -0400
Subject: Re: EMBLA 2002 - Hessdalen Optical & Ground Survey


 >From: Christoffer Walther <cw@r00t.dk>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 20:05:07 +0200
 >Subject: EMBLA 2002 - Hessdalen Optical & Ground Survey

 >Massimo Teodorani, Ph.d astrophysicist has released his
 >report 'EMBLA 2002 - An Optical and Ground Survey in Hessdalen'.

 >This report presents the results from the August 2002 field
 >expedition in Hessdalen, Norway, a joint collaboration between
 >Italian and Norwegian scientists in order to study the
 >unidentified light phenomenona reoccuring in the valley.

 >The high-energy plasma hypothesis has been considerably weakened
 >from this years optical measurements and analysis of light
 >distribution, which suggests two possible interpretations:

 >1) A silicon electro-heated ball-lightning -like 'lightball'
 >which can optically simulate a solid (object).

 >2) A uniformly illuminated solid (object).

<snip>

 >The complete report can be found at:

 >>http://www.hessdalen.org/reports/EMBLA_2002_2.pdf
<

Thanks for posting this notification. This is a very important
paper because it shows the results of a scientific experimental
and analytical program designed to understand the Hessdalen
lights.

However, the paper has its problems (including some use of
English which makes it difficult to understand).

I do not think they have correctly estimated the power level
that is radiated. They have treated the image size as if were
geometrically related to the actual object size while not taking
into account the image growth caused by brightness. For example
a dim light 10 cm in diameter will make an image of a certain
size in on optical system. The size will be close to that
consistent with the geometric ratio (object size/distance ) =
(image size/focal length).

O/D = I/F or I = FO/D.

This is the "geometric" image size.

Now suppose this light source becomes very bright. The image
made will grow in size, perhaps doubling or tripling or more.
The growth of image size with brightness is well known by
astonomers who realize that no star is large or close enough to
form a resolved image; each star is a "point" source. However,
the star images on a photographic plate do vary in size and this
is a result of the varying brightness from star to star. Vega
makes an image much bigger then one of the nearby faint stars,
for example. (A person can see this effect in his/her eye
without the use of photographic film.) (The same image growth
effect occurs in CCD type cameras).

They have relied on the point spread function of an image PSF to
estimate the size and shape of the object itself. However, this
PSF is also a function of brightness and it can be distorted by
excessive film exposure that saturates the film and makes a
"flat top" in the PSF curve. They assume that a flat top PSF is
an indicator of a "real object of some size" that is being
geometrically imaged according to the above equation. However,
as just pointed out, the flat top could simply be a result of
overexposure caused by an object too small to resolve ("point"
source) that is very bright.

Note operational definitions:

resolved source: a dim resolved source makes an image of some
size according to the geometric relation; if this source gets
bigger the image will grow somewhat, but the main thing is that
even if it gets almost too dim to make an image, the image still
has size (diameter) on the film/CCD

unresolved source ("point source"): the image size is totally
a result of its brightness; as it gets dimmer the image size
shrinks continually, finally disappearing altogether at a
"point" (a resolution area, grain size, pixel size) on the
film/CCD plane

The Hessdalen images _could_ have been made by
very bright "point" sources, i.e., sources that might be cm in
size and can't be resolved by the optical systems that were used
since the distance was like 9000 m (or more).

I think they overestimated the power that was radiated. My own
crude estimate (crude since I don't have some of the needed
information) is that the light radiates several hundred candelas
(lumen/steradian), equivalent to much less than the 100 kW they
have estimated.

The spectrum they present is made up of three nearly
disconnected ranges of optical power (energy), a red range, a
green range and a blue range (range = bandwidth in microns of
wavelength, for example) This is comparable to the "Bubba"
spectrum recorded in Gulf Breeze in Feb. 1992, which, however,
had much more red (it was a red-appearing light) than any other
color.

http://brumac.8k.com/GulfBreeze/Bubba/GBBUBBA.html

scrolln down to the comparison of the UFO spectrum with a flare
spectrum).

The Hessdalen analysis has shown that the light has
characteristics other than what would be expected for a plasma.
However, their analysis of the image growth, which they assume
to be "plasma growth", without color change is, in my opinion,
faulty because, as I pointed out above, image growth is a result
of brightness growth, not necessarily size growth. (They argued
that the light was growing in size without cooling off, which a
plasma presumably would do (cool as the size increases).)

Their comments about the need for a well funded expedition are
right on the money (or lack of money).

I look forward to reading further reports on the Hessdalen
research.








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                         Date Correction For Sci Fi

From: Richard Dolan <keyhole@rochester.rr.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 16:21:21 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 19:29:59 -0400
Subject: Date Correction For Sci Fi


  Hi, all --

It was pointed out to me that I gave a confusing date for my
appearance on the Sci Fi channel. The correct day and date is
Friday, October 11. In other words, tomorrow night.

Sorry for any confusion.

Rich Dolan








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                 Jacques Vallee Discusses UFO Control System

From: Colm Kelleher - NIDS <nids@anv.net>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 17:01:57 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 21:18:39 -0400
Subject: Jacques Vallee Discusses UFO Control System


The UFO Control System Hypothesis

Jacques Vallee interviewed by Jerome Clark 1978

Full interview can be downloaded at:

http://www.nidsci.org/articles/clark.html


 From the interview. Vallee's advice for the UFO investigator:

Clark: How does one go about investigating UFOs, taking into
consideration the possible existence of a control system?

Vallee: You should work outside any organized UFO group. Also
you must be very careful about the types of instruments you use
for your analysis. For example, I have become increasingly
skeptical of the use of computers in UFO research. We're losing
a great many data because of a certain situation that is
developing: The field researcher will spend a lot of time and
money investigating a case. Typically he will write it up in an
excellent 10-to-20-page report; then he'll send it to his
superiors in the organization, assuming that they are going to
put it on the computer and that in this way it's going to add to
some great body of knowledge.

But it doesn't. Investigators should understand that their
reports go absolutely nowhere. They end up in a drawer
somewhere, they are never published, and they're quickly
forgotten. All that's left in the computer is a bunch of codes
and letters and numbers on magnetic tape somewhere and that's
the end of that.

For another thing you don't want to go around chasing every UFO
that's reported. If a sighting gets a lot of publicity, you
should stay the hell away from it. Instead you should go after
cases that you select yourself, ones that have received very
little publicity and you've heard about through personal
channels. There are plenty of those and they are surprisingly
rich in content. You should take your time investigating them.
Get involved with the people as human beings. And then you have
to become part of the scene, getting as close as you can to
what's happening especially if it continues to happen.

Clark: Are you suggesting that the investigator should attempt
to experience the phenomenon himself?

Vallee: Yes, I think that's sound scientific practice.

Clark: But isn't that rather dangerous =97 in the sense that
there's a real risk the investigator, even if he is emotionally
stable and intellectually sophisticated, might be overwhelmed by
the experiences involved?

Vallee: Yes, there are dangers. Witness what happened to Morris
Jessup or to Jim McDonald. But I think that now we're more aware
of what the dangers are. Once you realize the phenomenon may be
deliberately misleading, then you can use certain safeguards.
I'm not saying that safeguards are always going to work. There
is an element of danger you really can't avoid. There's no way
to do that kind of study just by reading books.

It's a little bit like the study of volcanoes. You can learn a
lot about them by watching them from a distance but you
certainly learn a lot more when you can be right there =97 even if
it's somewhat risky.










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                       Re: Crisis At CUFOS - Dabrowski

From: Andrew Dabrowski <dabrowsa@indiana.edu>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 18:50:05 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 21:13:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Crisis At CUFOS - Dabrowski


 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 11:15:59 -0500
 >Subject: Crisis At CUFOS

 >Subscriptions are available for $25 (US) or $30 (non-US) from:

 >CUFOS,
 >2457 West Peterson Avenue,
 >Chicago,
 >Illinois
 >60659
 >USA

 >Please help us. We need you.

 >Jerry Clark
 >CUFOS officer
 >IUR co-editor

It would help if CUFOS could accept credit card orders on-line.
Having to print out order forms and send them by snail-mail is
rather old-fashioned and cumbersome.




--
Andrew Dabrowski    |...it is a ghost's right / his element is so fine / being
Bloomington IN USA  |sharpened by his death / to drink from the wine breath /
dabrowsa@indiana.edu|while our gross palates drink from the whole wine. -Yeats








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                         Re: Crisis At CUFOS - Kerth

From: Linda Kerth <LINDAKERTH@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 19:33:03 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 21:12:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Crisis At CUFOS - Kerth


 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 11:15:59 -0500
 >Subject: Crisis At CUFOS

 >Listfolk:

 >The continued existence of the J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO
 >Studies (CUFOS) is in question. By "continued existence" I mean
 >that CUFOS as it has existed since 1973, when Dr. Hynek and
 >Sherman J. Larsen created it, may fold within the next few
 >weeks.

 >That was the issue discussed at length in the board meeting I
 >attended in Chicago last Saturday (October 5). Revenue has been
 >down significantly, and soon it will no longer be possible to
 >keep the office - with its extensive files and resources, a
 >world-class collection - open. Already discussions have opened
 >with a university which has expressed interest in the materials.

 >CUFOS' principal revenue source is International UFO Reporter
 >(IUR), published four times a year for $25. IUR is often
 >described as the best UFO magazine in the English language, with
 >its emphasis on sober research and analysis. Like most (possibly
 >all) other UFO journals, however, our subscription base has
 >eroded over the years, a victim of the Internet and other forces
 >beyond our control.

 >Without a substantial number of new subscriptions and renewals
 >to IUR, CUFOS will be reduced to a kind of skeletal state, at
 >worst surviving only as an website with occasional articles and
 >reviews under the IUR title. The archives, with their convenient
 >central location in Chicago, have been used by ufologists from
 >all over the world, but they will no longer be available at
 >their old address.

 >Allen Hynek started CUFOS as a scientific clearing house for
 >reliable UFO data. He died in 1986, but those of us who survived
 >him have done our best to keep his mission alive. We're now
 >turning to you to make it possible to continue.

 >If you haven't seen IUR lately, here are the tables of contents
 >for the past two issues:

 >Spring 2002:
 >UFO/Vehicle _Very_ Close Encounters by Mark Rodeghier
 >Angel Hair: An Australian Perspective by Keith Basterfield
 >Was There a Second Estimate of the Situation? by Michael Hall
 >The Trivialist by Jerome Clark
 >The 1952 Nash/Fortenberry Sighting Revisited by Thomas Tulien

 >Summer 2002
 >What's Convincing About UFOs?, by Michael D. Swords
 >Media Bias and UFOs by Haiko Lietz
 >Do Nuclear Facilities Attract UFOs? by Donald A. Johnson
 >Interpreting the Ramey Memo by James Houran & Kevin D. Randle
 >Cold Case Ufology by Jenny Randles
 >Letters
 >Abductees and the Paranormal by Mark Rodeghier

 >Subscriptions are available for $25 (US) or $30 (non-US) from:

 >CUFOS,
 >2457 West Peterson Avenue,
 >Chicago,
 >Illinois
 >60659
 >USA

 >Please help us. We need you.

 >Jerry Clark
 >CUFOS officer
 >IUR co-editor



Hi, Jerry

Sorry (and saddened) to hear of IUR's plight.

I let my subscription lapse some years ago, and now feel very
guilty about it.

I will subscribe, but it would really make it much easier if you
could set up on-line payments! I could, for example, forward
you some money via PayPal (which I understand just requires an
e-mail address, but you might have to open an account on that
end, most likely free or low cost). Do you think you could
investigate this? If not (or if you already have and decided
against it), let me know and I'll mail you a check.


Thanks,

Linda Kerth
<lindakerth@aol.com>






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   Oct > Oct 10

               Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'

From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 20:46:34 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 21:22:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'


 >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 14:47:52 +0000
 >Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'

 >>From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 02:50:44 +0200
 >>Subject: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'

 >>Source: AP Wire via Bayarea.com,

 >>http://www.bayarea.com/mld/bayarea/4238723.htm

 >>Stig

 >>Posted on Tue, Oct. 08, 2002

 >>Spider webs float through Santa Cruz

 >>SANTA CRUZ, Calif. - Long, floating spider webs are bobbing
 >>through the skies of Santa Cruz this week, confusing some
 >>community members concerned about biological weapons, UFOs and
 >>other phenomena.

 >>The gossamer-thin, shimmery "sky webs" are between 18 inches and
 >>several feet long, and have been seen drifting through the sky,
 >>sailing along the coastline and, at times, catching on fences or
 >>draping on trees.

 >>The webs come from young spiders that launch themselves on their
 >>homemade parachutes after hatching to be blown to a new home.

<snip>

 >Back in the 1950s when NICAP first began studying 'Angel's Hair'
 >reports in conjunction with CSI of New York, the first thing we
 >noticed is what Isabel Davis referred to as the "Octoberishness"
 >of the reports. October is spider migration season in North
 >America.


For those researchers interested in this topic Keith Basterfield
has compiled, "A Catalogue And Analysis Of Australian 'Angel
Hair' Cases" at

http://project1947.com/kbangel.htm

Keith analyzes the cases in a number of ways including location,
time of year, time of day, duration and many other criteria
including those cases where spiders have been found at the
sites.

Also provide are cases where analysis of the material revealed
that it originated with spiders. Keith also some relevant notes
on spiders.

Murray Bott wrote a supplement to Keith's work, "New Zealand
Reports of 'Angel Hair' in relation to the UFO Phenomenon"

Finally, a small amount of additional links are provided after
the end of the Murray's article.

Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
http://www.project1947.com/
P. O. Box 391
Canterbury, CT 06331
(860) 546-9135








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   Oct > Oct 10

                              Angel Hair Links

From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 21:09:59 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 21:50:46 -0400
Subject: Angel Hair Links


Greetings List

Below are a number of links which were compiled for the end of
Keith Basterfield's article but for some reason were never
incorporated into the Project 1947 material.  Some links are old
and may have rotted away.

Jan Aldrich
Project 1947


Angel Hair Update, by Bill Chalker

http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1998/aug/m16-012.shtml


Angel Hair: Conclusions Drawn from In Depth Research
by Brian Boldman

http://www.ksinc.net/~devilsad/angelh.htm


Angel's hair Case
Quirindi, near Tamworth, NSW, 10.08.98

http://www.powerup.com.au/~ufologist/Unexplained_Phenomena1a.html


ANGEL HAIR
John Harney

http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/60/hair.html


Rusty's Retreat, Angel Hair incident of Sept 20, 2000 in West Virginia.
(Takes some time to load up. The Lab report was on this site, but it is no
longer there.)

http://www.homestead.com/rustys_retreat/spiderstuff.html


Flying Saucer magazine Letter to the Editor, August 1967

http://www.xdream.freeserve.co.uk/UFOBase/FSMagLetter.htm


Angel Hair chronology (some sources seem questionable, but this chronolongy
has lots of links.)

http://www.xdream.freeserve.co.uk/UFOBase/AngelHair.htm


Condon Report comments on angel hair

http://www.ncas.org/condon/text/s3chap03.htm


ANGEL HAIR" FALLS IN LIVONIA, MICHIGAN
Sept 28, 2000

http://members.home.net/tlemire/2000.html#angelhair


November 1, 2000
"ANGEL HAIR" FALLS ON TWO TOWNS IN NORTHERN ITALY

http://www.aufon.com/Italy.htm


October 24 of '96, near Romorantin in the "Loir et Cher"

http://www.neverland.net/bati/english/eovni.htm


Angel hairs: the one and only from Sweden
By Anders Liljegren

http://www.ufo.se/english/articles/hair.html




Type: Angel Hair
Date: October 1881
Location: Eastern Wisconsin

http://www.execpc.com/~ahoj/wfiles/files/ah_1881.htm


Contact for Spider Fall Reports and Samples:

BLT Reasearch Team
Box 400127
Cambridge, MA 02140
Telephone 617 492 0415
fax 617 492 0414


Nancy Talbott, BLT Research Team

bltresearch@mediaone.net

http://www.bltresearch.com







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   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   Oct > Oct 10

                 Jacques Vallee Discusses UFO Control System

From: Colm Kelleher - NIDS <nids@anv.net>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 17:01:57 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 21:18:39 -0400
Subject: Jacques Vallee Discusses UFO Control System


The UFO Control System Hypothesis

Jacques Vallee interviewed by Jerome Clark 1978

Full interview can be downloaded at:

http://www.nidsci.org/articles/clark.html


 From the interview. Vallee's advice for the UFO investigator:

Clark: How does one go about investigating UFOs, taking into
consideration the possible existence of a control system?

Vallee: You should work outside any organized UFO group. Also
you must be very careful about the types of instruments you use
for your analysis. For example, I have become increasingly
skeptical of the use of computers in UFO research. We're losing
a great many data because of a certain situation that is
developing: The field researcher will spend a lot of time and
money investigating a case. Typically he will write it up in an
excellent 10-to-20-page report; then he'll send it to his
superiors in the organization, assuming that they are going to
put it on the computer and that in this way it's going to add to
some great body of knowledge.

But it doesn't. Investigators should understand that their
reports go absolutely nowhere. They end up in a drawer
somewhere, they are never published, and they're quickly
forgotten. All that's left in the computer is a bunch of codes
and letters and numbers on magnetic tape somewhere and that's
the end of that.

For another thing you don't want to go around chasing every UFO
that's reported. If a sighting gets a lot of publicity, you
should stay the hell away from it. Instead you should go after
cases that you select yourself, ones that have received very
little publicity and you've heard about through personal
channels. There are plenty of those and they are surprisingly
rich in content. You should take your time investigating them.
Get involved with the people as human beings. And then you have
to become part of the scene, getting as close as you can to
what's happening especially if it continues to happen.

Clark: Are you suggesting that the investigator should attempt
to experience the phenomenon himself?

Vallee: Yes, I think that's sound scientific practice.

Clark: But isn't that rather dangerous =97 in the sense that
there's a real risk the investigator, even if he is emotionally
stable and intellectually sophisticated, might be overwhelmed by
the experiences involved?

Vallee: Yes, there are dangers. Witness what happened to Morris
Jessup or to Jim McDonald. But I think that now we're more aware
of what the dangers are. Once you realize the phenomenon may be
deliberately misleading, then you can use certain safeguards.
I'm not saying that safeguards are always going to work. There
is an element of danger you really can't avoid. There's no way
to do that kind of study just by reading books.

It's a little bit like the study of volcanoes. You can learn a
lot about them by watching them from a distance but you
certainly learn a lot more when you can be right there =97 even if
it's somewhat risky.










   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   Oct > Oct 10

                              Angel Hair Links

From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 21:09:59 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 21:50:46 -0400
Subject: Angel Hair Links


Greetings List

Below are a number of links which were compiled for the end of
Keith Basterfield's article but for some reason were never
incorporated into the Project 1947 material.  Some links are old
and may have rotted away.

Jan Aldrich
Project 1947


Angel Hair Update, by Bill Chalker

http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1998/aug/m16-012.shtml


Angel Hair: Conclusions Drawn from In Depth Research
by Brian Boldman

http://www.ksinc.net/~devilsad/angelh.htm


Angel's hair Case
Quirindi, near Tamworth, NSW, 10.08.98

http://www.powerup.com.au/~ufologist/Unexplained_Phenomena1a.html


ANGEL HAIR
John Harney

http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/60/hair.html


Rusty's Retreat, Angel Hair incident of Sept 20, 2000 in West Virginia.
(Takes some time to load up. The Lab report was on this site, but it is no
longer there.)

http://www.homestead.com/rustys_retreat/spiderstuff.html


Flying Saucer magazine Letter to the Editor, August 1967

http://www.xdream.freeserve.co.uk/UFOBase/FSMagLetter.htm


Angel Hair chronology (some sources seem questionable, but this chronolongy
has lots of links.)

http://www.xdream.freeserve.co.uk/UFOBase/AngelHair.htm


Condon Report comments on angel hair

http://www.ncas.org/condon/text/s3chap03.htm


ANGEL HAIR" FALLS IN LIVONIA, MICHIGAN
Sept 28, 2000

http://members.home.net/tlemire/2000.html#angelhair


November 1, 2000
"ANGEL HAIR" FALLS ON TWO TOWNS IN NORTHERN ITALY

http://www.aufon.com/Italy.htm


October 24 of '96, near Romorantin in the "Loir et Cher"

http://www.neverland.net/bati/english/eovni.htm


Angel hairs: the one and only from Sweden
By Anders Liljegren

http://www.ufo.se/english/articles/hair.html




Type: Angel Hair
Date: October 1881
Location: Eastern Wisconsin

http://www.execpc.com/~ahoj/wfiles/files/ah_1881.htm


Contact for Spider Fall Reports and Samples:

BLT Reasearch Team
Box 400127
Cambridge, MA 02140
Telephone 617 492 0415
fax 617 492 0414


Nancy Talbott, BLT Research Team

bltresearch@mediaone.net

http://www.bltresearch.com







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   Oct > Oct 10

                       Re: Crisis At CUFOS - Dabrowski

From: Andrew Dabrowski <dabrowsa@indiana.edu>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 18:50:05 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 21:13:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Crisis At CUFOS - Dabrowski


 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 11:15:59 -0500
 >Subject: Crisis At CUFOS

 >Subscriptions are available for $25 (US) or $30 (non-US) from:

 >CUFOS,
 >2457 West Peterson Avenue,
 >Chicago,
 >Illinois
 >60659
 >USA

 >Please help us. We need you.

 >Jerry Clark
 >CUFOS officer
 >IUR co-editor

It would help if CUFOS could accept credit card orders on-line.
Having to print out order forms and send them by snail-mail is
rather old-fashioned and cumbersome.




--
Andrew Dabrowski    |...it is a ghost's right / his element is so fine / being
Bloomington IN USA  |sharpened by his death / to drink from the wine breath /
dabrowsa@indiana.edu|while our gross palates drink from the whole wine. -Yeats








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   Oct > Oct 10

                         Re: Crisis At CUFOS - Kerth

From: Linda Kerth <LINDAKERTH@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 19:33:03 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 21:12:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Crisis At CUFOS - Kerth


 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 11:15:59 -0500
 >Subject: Crisis At CUFOS

 >Listfolk:

 >The continued existence of the J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO
 >Studies (CUFOS) is in question. By "continued existence" I mean
 >that CUFOS as it has existed since 1973, when Dr. Hynek and
 >Sherman J. Larsen created it, may fold within the next few
 >weeks.

 >That was the issue discussed at length in the board meeting I
 >attended in Chicago last Saturday (October 5). Revenue has been
 >down significantly, and soon it will no longer be possible to
 >keep the office - with its extensive files and resources, a
 >world-class collection - open. Already discussions have opened
 >with a university which has expressed interest in the materials.

 >CUFOS' principal revenue source is International UFO Reporter
 >(IUR), published four times a year for $25. IUR is often
 >described as the best UFO magazine in the English language, with
 >its emphasis on sober research and analysis. Like most (possibly
 >all) other UFO journals, however, our subscription base has
 >eroded over the years, a victim of the Internet and other forces
 >beyond our control.

 >Without a substantial number of new subscriptions and renewals
 >to IUR, CUFOS will be reduced to a kind of skeletal state, at
 >worst surviving only as an website with occasional articles and
 >reviews under the IUR title. The archives, with their convenient
 >central location in Chicago, have been used by ufologists from
 >all over the world, but they will no longer be available at
 >their old address.

 >Allen Hynek started CUFOS as a scientific clearing house for
 >reliable UFO data. He died in 1986, but those of us who survived
 >him have done our best to keep his mission alive. We're now
 >turning to you to make it possible to continue.

 >If you haven't seen IUR lately, here are the tables of contents
 >for the past two issues:

 >Spring 2002:
 >UFO/Vehicle _Very_ Close Encounters by Mark Rodeghier
 >Angel Hair: An Australian Perspective by Keith Basterfield
 >Was There a Second Estimate of the Situation? by Michael Hall
 >The Trivialist by Jerome Clark
 >The 1952 Nash/Fortenberry Sighting Revisited by Thomas Tulien

 >Summer 2002
 >What's Convincing About UFOs?, by Michael D. Swords
 >Media Bias and UFOs by Haiko Lietz
 >Do Nuclear Facilities Attract UFOs? by Donald A. Johnson
 >Interpreting the Ramey Memo by James Houran & Kevin D. Randle
 >Cold Case Ufology by Jenny Randles
 >Letters
 >Abductees and the Paranormal by Mark Rodeghier

 >Subscriptions are available for $25 (US) or $30 (non-US) from:

 >CUFOS,
 >2457 West Peterson Avenue,
 >Chicago,
 >Illinois
 >60659
 >USA

 >Please help us. We need you.

 >Jerry Clark
 >CUFOS officer
 >IUR co-editor



Hi, Jerry

Sorry (and saddened) to hear of IUR's plight.

I let my subscription lapse some years ago, and now feel very
guilty about it.

I will subscribe, but it would really make it much easier if you
could set up on-line payments! I could, for example, forward
you some money via PayPal (which I understand just requires an
e-mail address, but you might have to open an account on that
end, most likely free or low cost). Do you think you could
investigate this? If not (or if you already have and decided
against it), let me know and I'll mail you a check.


Thanks,

Linda Kerth
<lindakerth@aol.com>






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   Oct > Oct 10

                         Re: Crisis At CUFOS - Kerth

From: Linda Kerth <LINDAKERTH@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 19:33:03 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 21:12:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Crisis At CUFOS - Kerth


 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 11:15:59 -0500
 >Subject: Crisis At CUFOS

 >Listfolk:

 >The continued existence of the J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO
 >Studies (CUFOS) is in question. By "continued existence" I mean
 >that CUFOS as it has existed since 1973, when Dr. Hynek and
 >Sherman J. Larsen created it, may fold within the next few
 >weeks.

 >That was the issue discussed at length in the board meeting I
 >attended in Chicago last Saturday (October 5). Revenue has been
 >down significantly, and soon it will no longer be possible to
 >keep the office - with its extensive files and resources, a
 >world-class collection - open. Already discussions have opened
 >with a university which has expressed interest in the materials.

 >CUFOS' principal revenue source is International UFO Reporter
 >(IUR), published four times a year for $25. IUR is often
 >described as the best UFO magazine in the English language, with
 >its emphasis on sober research and analysis. Like most (possibly
 >all) other UFO journals, however, our subscription base has
 >eroded over the years, a victim of the Internet and other forces
 >beyond our control.

 >Without a substantial number of new subscriptions and renewals
 >to IUR, CUFOS will be reduced to a kind of skeletal state, at
 >worst surviving only as an website with occasional articles and
 >reviews under the IUR title. The archives, with their convenient
 >central location in Chicago, have been used by ufologists from
 >all over the world, but they will no longer be available at
 >their old address.

 >Allen Hynek started CUFOS as a scientific clearing house for
 >reliable UFO data. He died in 1986, but those of us who survived
 >him have done our best to keep his mission alive. We're now
 >turning to you to make it possible to continue.

 >If you haven't seen IUR lately, here are the tables of contents
 >for the past two issues:

 >Spring 2002:
 >UFO/Vehicle _Very_ Close Encounters by Mark Rodeghier
 >Angel Hair: An Australian Perspective by Keith Basterfield
 >Was There a Second Estimate of the Situation? by Michael Hall
 >The Trivialist by Jerome Clark
 >The 1952 Nash/Fortenberry Sighting Revisited by Thomas Tulien

 >Summer 2002
 >What's Convincing About UFOs?, by Michael D. Swords
 >Media Bias and UFOs by Haiko Lietz
 >Do Nuclear Facilities Attract UFOs? by Donald A. Johnson
 >Interpreting the Ramey Memo by James Houran & Kevin D. Randle
 >Cold Case Ufology by Jenny Randles
 >Letters
 >Abductees and the Paranormal by Mark Rodeghier

 >Subscriptions are available for $25 (US) or $30 (non-US) from:

 >CUFOS,
 >2457 West Peterson Avenue,
 >Chicago,
 >Illinois
 >60659
 >USA

 >Please help us. We need you.

 >Jerry Clark
 >CUFOS officer
 >IUR co-editor



Hi, Jerry

Sorry (and saddened) to hear of IUR's plight.

I let my subscription lapse some years ago, and now feel very
guilty about it.

I will subscribe, but it would really make it much easier if you
could set up on-line payments! I could, for example, forward
you some money via PayPal (which I understand just requires an
e-mail address, but you might have to open an account on that
end, most likely free or low cost). Do you think you could
investigate this? If not (or if you already have and decided
against it), let me know and I'll mail you a check.


Thanks,

Linda Kerth
<lindakerth@aol.com>






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   Oct > Oct 10

               Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'

From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 20:46:34 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 21:22:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'


 >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 14:47:52 +0000
 >Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'

 >>From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 02:50:44 +0200
 >>Subject: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'

 >>Source: AP Wire via Bayarea.com,

 >>http://www.bayarea.com/mld/bayarea/4238723.htm

 >>Stig

 >>Posted on Tue, Oct. 08, 2002

 >>Spider webs float through Santa Cruz

 >>SANTA CRUZ, Calif. - Long, floating spider webs are bobbing
 >>through the skies of Santa Cruz this week, confusing some
 >>community members concerned about biological weapons, UFOs and
 >>other phenomena.

 >>The gossamer-thin, shimmery "sky webs" are between 18 inches and
 >>several feet long, and have been seen drifting through the sky,
 >>sailing along the coastline and, at times, catching on fences or
 >>draping on trees.

 >>The webs come from young spiders that launch themselves on their
 >>homemade parachutes after hatching to be blown to a new home.

<snip>

 >Back in the 1950s when NICAP first began studying 'Angel's Hair'
 >reports in conjunction with CSI of New York, the first thing we
 >noticed is what Isabel Davis referred to as the "Octoberishness"
 >of the reports. October is spider migration season in North
 >America.


For those researchers interested in this topic Keith Basterfield
has compiled, "A Catalogue And Analysis Of Australian 'Angel
Hair' Cases" at

http://project1947.com/kbangel.htm

Keith analyzes the cases in a number of ways including location,
time of year, time of day, duration and many other criteria
including those cases where spiders have been found at the
sites.

Also provide are cases where analysis of the material revealed
that it originated with spiders. Keith also some relevant notes
on spiders.

Murray Bott wrote a supplement to Keith's work, "New Zealand
Reports of 'Angel Hair' in relation to the UFO Phenomenon"

Finally, a small amount of additional links are provided after
the end of the Murray's article.

Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
http://www.project1947.com/
P. O. Box 391
Canterbury, CT 06331
(860) 546-9135








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   Oct > Oct 10

                       Re: Crisis At CUFOS - Dabrowski

From: Andrew Dabrowski <dabrowsa@indiana.edu>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 18:50:05 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 21:13:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Crisis At CUFOS - Dabrowski


 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 11:15:59 -0500
 >Subject: Crisis At CUFOS

 >Subscriptions are available for $25 (US) or $30 (non-US) from:

 >CUFOS,
 >2457 West Peterson Avenue,
 >Chicago,
 >Illinois
 >60659
 >USA

 >Please help us. We need you.

 >Jerry Clark
 >CUFOS officer
 >IUR co-editor

It would help if CUFOS could accept credit card orders on-line.
Having to print out order forms and send them by snail-mail is
rather old-fashioned and cumbersome.




--
Andrew Dabrowski    |...it is a ghost's right / his element is so fine / being
Bloomington IN USA  |sharpened by his death / to drink from the wine breath /
dabrowsa@indiana.edu|while our gross palates drink from the whole wine. -Yeats








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   Oct > Oct 10

               Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'

From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 20:46:34 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 21:22:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'


 >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 14:47:52 +0000
 >Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'

 >>From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 02:50:44 +0200
 >>Subject: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'

 >>Source: AP Wire via Bayarea.com,

 >>http://www.bayarea.com/mld/bayarea/4238723.htm

 >>Stig

 >>Posted on Tue, Oct. 08, 2002

 >>Spider webs float through Santa Cruz

 >>SANTA CRUZ, Calif. - Long, floating spider webs are bobbing
 >>through the skies of Santa Cruz this week, confusing some
 >>community members concerned about biological weapons, UFOs and
 >>other phenomena.

 >>The gossamer-thin, shimmery "sky webs" are between 18 inches and
 >>several feet long, and have been seen drifting through the sky,
 >>sailing along the coastline and, at times, catching on fences or
 >>draping on trees.

 >>The webs come from young spiders that launch themselves on their
 >>homemade parachutes after hatching to be blown to a new home.

<snip>

 >Back in the 1950s when NICAP first began studying 'Angel's Hair'
 >reports in conjunction with CSI of New York, the first thing we
 >noticed is what Isabel Davis referred to as the "Octoberishness"
 >of the reports. October is spider migration season in North
 >America.


For those researchers interested in this topic Keith Basterfield
has compiled, "A Catalogue And Analysis Of Australian 'Angel
Hair' Cases" at

http://project1947.com/kbangel.htm

Keith analyzes the cases in a number of ways including location,
time of year, time of day, duration and many other criteria
including those cases where spiders have been found at the
sites.

Also provide are cases where analysis of the material revealed
that it originated with spiders. Keith also some relevant notes
on spiders.

Murray Bott wrote a supplement to Keith's work, "New Zealand
Reports of 'Angel Hair' in relation to the UFO Phenomenon"

Finally, a small amount of additional links are provided after
the end of the Murray's article.

Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
http://www.project1947.com/
P. O. Box 391
Canterbury, CT 06331
(860) 546-9135








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   Oct > Oct 11

                         Bruni's Bentwaters Bunker?

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 06:40:15 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 05:35:37 -0400
Subject: Bruni's Bentwaters Bunker?


Source: East Anglian Daily Times,

http://www.eadt.co.uk/content/news/NewsStory.asp?Brand=3DEADOnline&Category=
=3DNews&ItemId=3DIPED09+Oct+2002+17%3A52%3A03%3A723

Stig

***

Good morning: Friday October 11, 2002 | 6:27 AM

Museum planned at air base

(October 10, 2002 05:51)

**

THE American Air Force control bunker where the 1980's raids
over Libya were masterminded will open to the public as a new
tourist attraction.

The above ground command post at the former Bentwaters air base,
near Woodbridge, is to become the centre for a museum
documenting Cold War activities.

Guided tours for the public will also take place around the 900-
acre airfield, showing them the relics of the era when the
Americans used the base until they departed nearly 10 years ago.

Displays of military vehicles will be established and the
Kemball family, owners of the airfield, hope to bring in old
aircraft and stripped aircraft.

They want to link their Cold War museum with the National
Trust's Anglo-Saxon ship burial at Sutton Hoo, and the
activities at Snape Maltings, to provide visitors with a
fascinating day out in east Suffolk.

The museum is still very much at a planning stage and it will
take several months until a limited display is opened in the
building. The family plans to increase the activities in stages
and it advises the public not to expect too much too soon.

The family owns many military, agricultural and steam vehicles
and these are displayed at the annual Power of the Past event in
the county. They will form the basis of the historic vehicle
exhibition at Bentwaters.

But it is the interior of the austere-looking nuclear-protected
building that will fascinate the public. It is next to the
headquarters of what was the 81st Tactical Fighter Wing. The
command post is where the American commanders would have hidden
under the threat of war to control the skies. The reinforced
walls are two-and-a-half feet thick and the building had its own
water supply and filtered air.

There is a huge walk-in safe -- the Americans kindly left the
combination lock -- and some basic equipment has been left in the
rooms. The public can view the decontamination rooms where
officers had to take off their clothes and deposit them in a
chute and then take a shower.

The map room still contains the sliding map screens and there a
few instruction manuals left in the plant room. There are no
windows in the building. The complex has scope for educational
visits.

The public remain fascinated by stories that there could be an
underground bunker at Bentwaters. Georgina Bruni, an author and
researcher on the Rendlesham UFO incident near Woodbridge
Airfield, had access to the command post during her
investigations.

In her book, You Can't Tell The People, she concluded there was
an underground facility. But Bill Kemball, managing director of
Bentwaters Parks Ltd, said there was no underground facility at
the bunker and the family had not discovered anything elsewhere
on the huge site.

Mr Kemball said: "The whole place was designed to withstand
conventional bombs and a nuclear fall-out.

"A lot of people have shown interest in what happened in the
last 40 years but nobody has really got to grips with it. We
thought the control bunker would be an ideal place for a museum.
It is both eerie and interesting."

Mr Kemball appealed to people who used to work on the base to
contribute artefacts and information for the Cold War museum and
to contact him on 01394 460655.

**

Copyright =A9 2002 Archant Regional. All rights reserved.








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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   Oct > Oct 11

                         Re: Crisis At CUFOS - Gates

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 00:11:47 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 05:00:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Crisis At CUFOS - Gates


 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 11:15:59 -0500
 >Subject: Crisis At CUFOS


 >Listfolk:

 >The continued existence of the J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO
 >Studies (CUFOS) is in question. By "continued existence" I mean
 >that CUFOS as it has existed since 1973, when Dr. Hynek and
 >Sherman J. Larsen created it, may fold within the next few
 >weeks.

 >That was the issue discussed at length in the board meeting I
 >attended in Chicago last Saturday (October 5). Revenue has been
 >down significantly, and soon it will no longer be possible to
 >keep the office - with its extensive files and resources, a
 >world-class collection - open. Already discussions have opened
 >with a university which has expressed interest in the materials.

 >CUFOS' principal revenue source is International UFO Reporter
 >(IUR), published four times a year for $25. IUR is often
 >described as the best UFO magazine in the English language, with
 >its emphasis on sober research and analysis. Like most (possibly
 >all) other UFO journals, however, our subscription base has
 >eroded over the years, a victim of the Internet and other forces
 >beyond our control.

 >Without a substantial number of new subscriptions and renewals
 >to IUR, CUFOS will be reduced to a kind of skeletal state, at
 >worst surviving only as an website with occasional articles and
 >reviews under the IUR title. The archives, with their convenient
 >central location in Chicago, have been used by ufologists from
 >all over the world, but they will no longer be available at
 >their old address.

 >Allen Hynek started CUFOS as a scientific clearing house for
 >reliable UFO data. He died in 1986, but those of us who survived
 >him have done our best to keep his mission alive. We're now
 >turning to you to make it possible to continue.

Hi Jerry,

An observation or two. As you well know, but perhaps many on the
List don't, the UFO subject peaked in the publishing industry in
1997 for the 50th anniversary of Roswell. From then on, it has
gone downhill, plunging in the last 2 years. Of late most on
the List saw the email from Arcturus books about how they may
have to close their doors by the end of October apparently due
to lack of interest in UFO books. People in the publishing world
tell me that the UFO subject doesn't excite near the interest
that it did in 1997, much like the Kennedy assassination books
no longer excite near the interest they did on the 30th
anniversary in 1993.

As to organizations MUFON was around 5000 or so members in 1997
and has apparently dropped every year based on the drop in
income/dues and is very probably around 3500 or 3800 currently.
The officers and leadership are being paid very, very little
according to the tax forms. John Schussler is getting around
$2,200 per year to be the International director.

I observed a few weeks ago that: Bottom line in a declining
economy and declining membership it would appear that MUFON is
being run very prudently.

CUFOS income (which is approx 50-60 percent less then MUFON) was
around 56 Grand in 1996, has dropped down to 43 year ending
2001. At that point IUR was requiring around 14 grand per year
in printing, publishing and mailing costs to the 800 or so
subscribers. None of the CUFOS officers and directors were
listed as taking any money (but donating gobs, and gobs of time
on a daily/weekly basis) and if anything CUFOS had small loan
from an officer. I would make the same observation: Bottom line
in a declining economy and declining membership it would appear
that CUFOS is being run very prudently.

One now presumes that if IUR/CUFOS is in crisis, numbers have
dropped significantly below the FY 2001 numbers.

Sadly this decline is in everything from the business community
to the recreational community. People are preoccupied with being
laid off, forthcoming attack on Iraq, and watching the
gut-churning ups and downs of the stock market and hence their
401Ks and any number of other "earthly issues." In a way one can
understand why ET from space is not a huge issue with folks.

So if we (meaning those who care) are interested in keeping
world class publications and research going, we need to support
them.

Cheers,

Robert








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   Oct > Oct 11

                Cornwall UFO Research Group's 6th Conference

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 06:27:18 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 05:31:24 -0400
Subject: Cornwall UFO Research Group's 6th Conference


Source: West Briton via ThisIsCornwall,

http://www.thisiscornwall.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=3D85092&command=3Ddis=
playContent&sourceNode=3D85091&contentPK=3D2773321

Stig

***

SIXTH UFO CONFERENCE

09:00 - 10 October 2002

**

The Cornwall UFO Research Group will be presenting its sixth
annual UFO conference at Truro College on Saturday.

There will be guest speakers covering subjects such as the
ancient impact of ufology and how world governments have covered
up the truth of alien life.

The conference starts at 10.25am.
Tickets cost =A310.50 in advance from 01872 276381
or =A312 at the door.

**

Copyright






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   Oct > Oct 11

                           Re: Gleason - Goldstein

From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 06:40:19 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 05:46:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Gleason - Goldstein


 >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 01:23:59 EDT
 >Subject: Re: Gleason

 >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 12:06:16 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Are We Really Ready For Disclosure?

 ><snip>

 >>For a number of reasons, I find the story pretty hard to
 >>believe. It seems highly unlikely that even a President could
 >>bring an unauthorized civilian into a secure site holding
 >>secrets of the alleged magnitude. Since no independent evidence
 >>seems to exist and the source of the anecdote is of uncertain
 >>reliability, the story should be regarded, in my judgment, as
 >>little more than yet more saucer folklore

 >Keep in mind that I think the Gleason story is in the same
 >league as mass landings in the desert SW on April 24th 1997, and
 >the much claimed and talked about ET landing that was going to
 >happen on a mountain top in Arizona in Dec of 2000.

 >Slight disagreement with Jerry. If a President of the United
 >States wanted to take his best buddy to some AFB to show them
 >something Top Secret, who would be in authority to stop the
 >President?


Hi Robert and Jerry,

But did anyone ever give Ed Norton a polygraph and asked him?

What about Nixon himself? Was he really a human from Whittier,
CA? Where did he _really_ come from? Was Spiro Agnew a hostile
alien from an ugly planet?

It's a good thing that, as far as I know, Bill never took Monica
to the deep, ultra black center of the top secret of the ages. I
don't mean sexually, as he claimed they never had sex but that
she just performed sexyterial services on him.

He should have learned from John and Bobby Kennedy to start
clandestine special security missions outside your own home and
only with Marilyn Monroe types who know how to keep secrets.
Obviously, if President Clinton had told Monica any ultra-
secrets she would have been terminated, just for him telling her
such a place exists, even if he never tried to take her there.
Before the scandal erupted Monica did not understand the term
"loose lips sink ships" as she tried to seduce Bill. And I guess
Bill never looked below his belt and realised that loose zips
sink ships.

Like Marilyn, Monica would be finished through a rectal drug
implant that leaves no toxicological traces. Her diaries would
be sanitized to vanish forever, just like Marilyn Monroe's. :>)


Back to the ultraworld,

Josh










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   Oct > Oct 11

                         Bruni's Bentwaters Bunker?

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 06:40:15 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 05:35:37 -0400
Subject: Bruni's Bentwaters Bunker?


Source: East Anglian Daily Times,

http://www.eadt.co.uk/content/news/NewsStory.asp?Brand=3DEADOnline&Category=
=3DNews&ItemId=3DIPED09+Oct+2002+17%3A52%3A03%3A723

Stig

***

Good morning: Friday October 11, 2002 | 6:27 AM

Museum planned at air base

(October 10, 2002 05:51)

**

THE American Air Force control bunker where the 1980's raids
over Libya were masterminded will open to the public as a new
tourist attraction.

The above ground command post at the former Bentwaters air base,
near Woodbridge, is to become the centre for a museum
documenting Cold War activities.

Guided tours for the public will also take place around the 900-
acre airfield, showing them the relics of the era when the
Americans used the base until they departed nearly 10 years ago.

Displays of military vehicles will be established and the
Kemball family, owners of the airfield, hope to bring in old
aircraft and stripped aircraft.

They want to link their Cold War museum with the National
Trust's Anglo-Saxon ship burial at Sutton Hoo, and the
activities at Snape Maltings, to provide visitors with a
fascinating day out in east Suffolk.

The museum is still very much at a planning stage and it will
take several months until a limited display is opened in the
building. The family plans to increase the activities in stages
and it advises the public not to expect too much too soon.

The family owns many military, agricultural and steam vehicles
and these are displayed at the annual Power of the Past event in
the county. They will form the basis of the historic vehicle
exhibition at Bentwaters.

But it is the interior of the austere-looking nuclear-protected
building that will fascinate the public. It is next to the
headquarters of what was the 81st Tactical Fighter Wing. The
command post is where the American commanders would have hidden
under the threat of war to control the skies. The reinforced
walls are two-and-a-half feet thick and the building had its own
water supply and filtered air.

There is a huge walk-in safe -- the Americans kindly left the
combination lock -- and some basic equipment has been left in the
rooms. The public can view the decontamination rooms where
officers had to take off their clothes and deposit them in a
chute and then take a shower.

The map room still contains the sliding map screens and there a
few instruction manuals left in the plant room. There are no
windows in the building. The complex has scope for educational
visits.

The public remain fascinated by stories that there could be an
underground bunker at Bentwaters. Georgina Bruni, an author and
researcher on the Rendlesham UFO incident near Woodbridge
Airfield, had access to the command post during her
investigations.

In her book, You Can't Tell The People, she concluded there was
an underground facility. But Bill Kemball, managing director of
Bentwaters Parks Ltd, said there was no underground facility at
the bunker and the family had not discovered anything elsewhere
on the huge site.

Mr Kemball said: "The whole place was designed to withstand
conventional bombs and a nuclear fall-out.

"A lot of people have shown interest in what happened in the
last 40 years but nobody has really got to grips with it. We
thought the control bunker would be an ideal place for a museum.
It is both eerie and interesting."

Mr Kemball appealed to people who used to work on the base to
contribute artefacts and information for the Cold War museum and
to contact him on 01394 460655.

**

Copyright =A9 2002 Archant Regional. All rights reserved.








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   Oct > Oct 11

                       Alien Hunters Take Screen Test

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 13:41:57 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 13:41:57 -0400
Subject: Alien Hunters Take Screen Test

http://www.nature.com/nsu/021007/021007-9.html

Alien Hunters Take Screen Test

Life looks to art to gauge likelihood of messages from other
worlds.

9 October 2002

Tom Clarke

Scientists searching for extraterrestrial intelligence are
turning to the silver screen to test the Rio Scale, their tool
for grading the significance of life signs from space.

In the absence of actual messages from extraterrestrials, they
have rated Hollywood blockbusters on the scale from 1 to 10 that
they designed to help society comprehend the seriousness of any
reported encounter with extraterrestrial intelligence. Films
such as Contact, Independence Day and 2001: A Space Odyssey hog
the top end of the scale - hinting at how it can be improved,
the researchers report.

"This isn't a movie review but a serious attempt to calibrate
what could be a very useful tool," says Seth Shostak of the
Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence (SETI) Institute in
Mountain View, California, where scientists have been developing
the scale for two years. Shostak will present his findings at
the World Space Congress in Houston, Texas, next week.

The SETI Institute coordinates the hunt for evidence of alien
life, scrutinizing signals from radio telescopes. They developed
the Rio Scale to reduce the impact of hoaxes - which register
zero on the scale - and to streamline the scientific and
political response to promising data. "It tells us how much we
should worry," says Shostak.

Using fiction to test the scale is perhaps the only approach,
says astronomer Ivan Alm=E1r of the Konkoly Observatory in
Budapest, Hungary, who invented the scale. There are a huge
number of variables, including the age, distance or quality of a
signal of possible intelligent origin. "This approach will give
us some idea of what the consequences might be," says Alm=E1r.

With more people scanning the skies for signals from space than
ever before, the need for an interpretive tool has never been
greater. SETI scientists are hopeful that they will detect
intelligent alien life one day, but do not expect any positive
ratings on the Rio Scale any time soon. "It's probably most
useful for dealing with false alarms," says Ian Morison, a radio
astronomer at Jodrell Bank Observatory in Macclesfield, UK.

This happened in 1998 when SETI scientists excitedly tracked a
radio signal for a week before realising that it originated from
a man-made scientific satellite.

Signs of life

A signal's ranking on the Rio Scale depends on such factors as
its proximity, the possibility that it is man-made interference,
and whether or not it is directed at the Earth.

Most signals in movies immediately rank high on the scale -
  Hollywood has no time for false alarms or thorough scientific
investigation. The message received in Independence Day, for
example, starts off as a 4 on the scale. Within minutes of the
opening credits it rises to a 10 - the score reserved for "a
physical encounter with intelligent life, or a message from
within our solar system addressed directly to Earth".

In the real world, months of computer analysis, debate and
follow up experiments would likely be required to confirm
intelligent extraterrestrial origin for a signal, says Shostak.

Other films illustrate possible flaws in the scale's design. In
2001: A Space Odyssey, for example, scientists discover an
object of possible alien origin on the Moon. In reality this
would be a major discovery, but it ranks very low on the Rio
Scale, admits Shostak.

Prank calls

The Rio Scale was devised following a hoax in 1998. An anonymous
amateur astronomer claimed to have received a signal from the
star system EQ Pegasi. The prank was widely reported in the
media before scientific confirmation.

Ensuing confusion over the origin of the data, which some
reports said came from SETI, led some astronomers to use
valuable telescope time to train their instruments on the star
system in an attempt to catch the signal. "It got really quite
serious," says Morison.

The scale is based on a similar risk-assessment tool called the
Torino Scale. This was instituted in 1999 to enable scientists
to clearly communicate the likelihood of a given asteroid or
meteorite colliding with the Earth, without resorting to complex
jargon. Here 0 means tat there is no chance of impact and 10
indicates a definite impact that would destroy life on Earth.
References

     # Shostak, S. & Alm=E1r, I. F. The Rio scale applied to
fictional "SETI Detections". Acta Astronautica, in press (2002).
|Homepage|


=A9 Nature News Service / Macmillan Magazines Ltd 2002







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   Oct > Oct 11

                          Symbols [UMMO] - Gutierez

From: Gregory Gutierez <greguti@free.fr>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 12:57:02 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 13:51:45 -0400
Subject: Symbols [UMMO] - Gutierez


 >From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm@arrakis.es>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 23:25:52 +0200
 >Subject: Symbols [UMMO]

 >Let me offers an example taken from their very first
 >message:

 >OA DO DO IA KAAWAEA UMMO UMMO UMMO
 >DO UMMO DO DO UMMO UMMO DO DO DO
 >DO UMMO UMMO DO DO UMMO

 >According to them, they use a bi-lenguage. They say that
 >they can express two trains of ideas simultaneously, one
 >thru the phonemes themselves and the other thru an
 >statistical- mathematical function related with their
 >repetition

Hi all, hi Luis,

Ok, I'll try in this e-mail to make a good summary of the
"Pollion method" for the understanding of the U words. People
who think Ummo is pure non-sense or some stupid hoax, I am
afraid you will quickly drop this mail away :)
Save your time and don't read the following lines.

I do not claim myself this Pollion Method proves U letters are
from an extraterrestrial civilization, but Pollion's work is one
higly interesting piece of interest for forteans like me. If he
is right, this makes Jordan Pena a very good hoaxer indeed, or
not an hoaxer at all.

Now, please be tolerant with my "demonstration" because I am not
easy with my english for this kind of lesson :) In the end,
please refer to the book of Pollion if you wish to know more and
make your own and complete idea on the topic. I am not speaking
with the agreement of Pollion so maybe he would criticize the
way I understood his analysis.

I also want to state that I am interested in this work because
it is an exiting and complete study of an alleged alien langage,
and this fits, IMHO, the original discussion on the alien
symbols on this list.

So here I go!

In order to understand the Pollion Method, you have to stipulate
that the letters actually come from "writers from outer space".
This is what he did when he begun his study. If the letters are
from a foreign intellect, we can assume that their way of
expressing things are not the same as ours, the notions behind
their expressions and the way they translate it in our langage
could be quite different. It is easy for me to translate from
french to english, because we live in the same culture and the
same world. The notion of "water", of "liquid", is still the
same notion, either you use the word "water" or "eau" or "agua"
(spanish) you always have in mind the idea of a liquid, that is,
something producing drops, flowing through your hands when you
try to grab it, something you can drink. This is important as
you will see further.

The first step of the study by Pollion was to compare small U
words for similar notions.

In one letter, we find the word "XEE" for "one year in Ummo". in
another one, the word "XII" for "one day in Ummo but also the
rotation of a wheel".

In another letter: "CSI" for "this is one day in our planet and
also the rotation of a wheel."

Pollion concludes that the sound "xe" stands for the notion of
"a cycle, a recurring, repeating rotation". The spanish
translation can be "x", "cs", the sound is always the same for
the same notion.

With the same kind of observations on little words, he quickly
found that the sound "A" stands for "great (number),
vast, important, multitude":
"YUYISAA" for "a small and isolated community"
"AYUYISAA" for "the social group, the society".
Looks like deleting the first "A" is sufficient to make the
difference.

One last example: the sound "E" (pronounced as in French or
Spanish, not as in English). He first found that E had something
to do with emotion or feeling but he needed a confirmation.

In the other hand, he noticed that all the pieces of the Ummit
house had in common the same root, "XAABI":

"UAMIIXAABI" is "the kitchen, the dining room",
"WOIWOAXAABI" is the "the bedroom"
"EXAABI" is "the bathroom".

If "XAABI" stands alone for "the house" and EXAABI stands for
the bathroom, so it is the sound "E" that makes the difference.
Is the bathroom the piece were you experiment
"sentations,feelings, mental images"? Well... Yes and not... You
also experiment feelings in the dinning room for example, when
you eat, or in bedroom when you're in the bed but not sleeping
:)

Not convincing at all...

Unless you read other letter in which is described this famous
bathroom. What do we learn about it? We learn that Ummits
don't have showers of water like us, they have "showers" of
composed scents, flavours and perfumes, like a symphony of
smell, while a cleaning gaz is spread on their bodies. The
smell is presented as a very developped and important sense
for the Ummits, as important as the hearing for us. One letter notes that
they go to "smell concerts" in the same way as we go to musical
concerts.This is the activity they compare the most with our artistic
activities (they don't understand nothing to art). So their bathrooms is a
kind of "sensations room".

So Pollion concludes that "EXAABI" stands for "the room in which
you have strong perceptions, emotions, feelings, mental images".
The sound "E" designs it and fits the description, it also
confirms what he had isolated from previous smaller words.

Lets resume:
X = rotation, repeating cycle...
A = big, important number, multitude...
E = emotions, feeling, mental image...

Pollion applied this method to all the sounds found in the U
words. The words are made with pieces of meaning, concepts, and
these concepts are expressed with sounds, just like bricks in a
wall. No grammar at all, no conjugation, just sounds making
meaning when associated with others. You can't express feelings
or subjectiveness when you use this way of expression. So you
can't make mistakes using one word for an other one. You can
just express neutral information, as computers communicating
between them, sending clear information to each other.

Lets take the example of one complex word now.

In one letter, we find the word "GOODAA" for "liquid state of
the matter" and "GOOINUU" in the expression "UAMII GOOINUU":
"solid food" in which "UAMII" stands for "food".

"GOODAA" and "GOOINUU" have "GOO" in common, so this piece
stands for "state of the matter", and we can conclude that the
segment "INUU" is for "solid, strong, reliable" and the segment
"DAA" is for "liquid":

GOO + DAA = matter + liquid, the liquid state of the matter

So "DAA" would stand for "liquid"? Pollion shows that the sound
"D" is for "appearence, semblance" and that "A" if for "big,
important in number, multitude". Pollion also found that the
repetition of a sound, as in "UMMO" or "DAA", adds the notion of
"simetry, balance, equilibrium" in what is expressed.

Thus, "DAA" literally stands for: "semblance" + "multitude,
important number, which is in equilibrium, equal".

That is: something important in volume and in quantity, and is
in equilibrium, without differences, neither peaks nor cavity.

This is quite an original way to express the concept of oceans
(the biggest example of liquid) or a glass of water: move your
glass as you want, the surface of the water is still flat and
equal. If you drop down the water to the ground, it will quickly
flatten itself, equal in each point, in "equilibrium".

To conclude, lets stress the Pollion Method with the following
sentence, quoted by Luis:

 >OA DO DO IA KAAWAEA UMMO UMMO UMMO

There is a whole page describing how this sentence is
constructed in the dictionnary by Pollion.
The segment "KAAWAEA" stands for "in order to study your
culture" in which:

WA = reality of the novelty (of their contact with us) EA = our
perception of this contact between us and them, does it
integrate in the entirety of our perceptions? (can we accept
this reality with our minds) KAA: the melting ("K") can process
in a mutual serenity between our 2 groups.

We could resume "KAAWAEA" by "the actual stability of our
melting , the reality of the novelty and the way you, humans,
can perceive this event".


 >Now for the conclusion:
 >According to them, they use a bi-lenguage. They say that they
 >can express two trains of ideas simultaneously, one thru the
 >phonemes themselves and the other thru an statistical-
 > mathematical function related with their repetition

This is explained in one letter. Let me quote/translate it:
"This is as if, for expressing the thought "We were in the
country", you took advantage of another sentence with a
different semantic content: "Kill this snake". You could do it
by using the repetition of syllabes as a code, and playing on
the tone of the voice"

 >Its translation into English would be:

 >We come from Ummo and we have made this voyage to study your
 >culture/ We do not want to harm you, be reassured.

Beware of the shortcut! This is not presented as a "word by
word" translation. We should considerate this as a way of
expressing, with human words and notions, the general meaning of
this sequence of U words.

For example, if I try to express in english the morse code for
"SOS" (Save Our Souls? Send Out Secours?), i'll get something
stupid like "beep beeeeep beep beeeeep beeeeep beep". Does it
dismiss the morse code once and for all?


I hope I've been good enough to summarise clearly the bedrock of
the Pollion Method. Now I hope you better understand why I am
intrigued by this work and by the Ummit case. I don't think
Pollion fooled himself, IMHO he actually found a "key" to unlock
the meanings of U words. And what appears is meanings that we
can understand, but that are deeply orginal, "foreign". That is
why I think Jordan Pena did a astounding work with these
letters, putting inside it bizarre alien words with secrets
rules of construction.

Do you know similar methods in paranormal litterature, other
allegedly alien/foreign langage studied by some author as in a
"reverse ingeneering" system?

Regards, and thanks for your time,

Gregory Gutierez
Paris, France
http://www.liste-aleph.org
French mailing list for fortean weirdos








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                         Re: Crisis At CUFOS - Bott

From: Murray Bott <murrayb@win.co.nz>
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 01:09:31 +1300 (NZDT)
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 13:56:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Crisis At CUFOS - Bott


 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 11:15:59 -0500
 >Subject: Crisis At CUFOS

Greetings Jerry and list

Jerry wrote:-

 >The continued existence of the J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO
 >Studies (CUFOS) is in question. By "continued existence" I mean
 >that CUFOS as it has existed since 1973, when Dr. Hynek and
 >Sherman J. Larsen created it, may fold within the next few
 >weeks.

Big snip here

I am somewhat shocked to read this Bad News!!

CUFOS is a real leader in Ufology alongside MUFON and BUFORA
etc.

One suggestion:

If everyone on the UpDates list could encourage just one new
subscriber to IUR that may be a start.

Jerry, I already get IUR and this is a valued publication here.
Could you please get someone at CUFOS to post to me the current
subscription forms along with all the details of current
publications available.

I will photocopy these and give these around locally - the poor
exchange rate of the New Zealand Dollar (worth about 47 cents
US) means that we pay more than $2.00NZ for every $1.00US, thus
I cant promise anything but will give it a try

Regards
Murray Bott

--
Email : murrayb@win.co.nz
Voice : 64-9-6345285
Snail : PO Box 27117, Mt Roskill, Auckland 1030, New Zealand








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                                Delayed Posts

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 14:08:00 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 14:08:00 -0400
Subject: Delayed Posts

The last time the system choked I re-sent messages that I
thought were lost, only to have the orginals show up in many
mailboxes around the planet, later.

There are a half-dozen posts that have not yet arrived at the
Archive, and presumably in the mailboxes of the posters. I'll
give the system another couple of hours and, if they haven't
shown up at the Archive, I'll re-send them.


ebk







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               Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair -

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren@pacbell.net>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 06:31:06 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 14:24:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair -


 >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 14:47:52 +0000
 >Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'

 >>From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 02:50:44 +0200
 >>Subject: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'

 >>Source: AP Wire via Bayarea.com,

 >>http://www.bayarea.com/mld/bayarea/4238723.htm

 >>Stig

<snip>

 >Back in the 1950s when NICAP first began studying 'Angel's Hair'
 >reports in conjunction with CSI of New York, the first thing we
 >noticed is what Isabel Davis referred to as the 'Octoberishness'
 >of the reports. October is spider migration season in North
 >America.

 > - Dick


Greetings Dick & Stig & All,

My two cents if I may; although it is 'likely' that the so-
called 'spider webs' are indeed just that, I might point out
that northern California is often the location for 'chemtrail
spraying'. This has been going on the last few weeks in fact.
Currently I'm trying to ascertain whether the phenomena took
place over Santa Cruz the day of the 'spider web' sightings, and
or possibly the day before. I have seen a 'web-like' substance,
after chemtrail spraying, with my own eyes, and it looks very
much like a very 'thick' spider-web.

In addition, I might point out that Santa Cruz of course is
right on the coast, so 'where' the webs were sighted in the city
would seem to be paramount to the situation. (I don't think
there is a species of spider that lives in the sea, and the
winds usually moves westward). Also for the molecular biology
professor (from Wyoming) who I would guess offered his opinion
via the telephone, based on the article, seems to have a mind-
set not condusive to alternative explanations for this type of
phenomena. (How many times have we heard the statement, 'no such
thing?')

Anyway, the point is, without further data the only thing that
can be offered, in my opinion, is conjecture.


Regards,

Frank








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             Re: EMBLA 2002 - Hessdalen Optical & Ground Survey

From: Christoffer Walther <cw@cvt.dk>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 14:46:52 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 14:28:42 -0400
Subject: Re: EMBLA 2002 - Hessdalen Optical & Ground Survey


 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 13:19:10 -0400
 >Subject: Re: EMBLA 2002 - Hessdalen Optical & Ground Survey

 >>From: Christoffer Walther <cw@r00t.dk>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 20:05:07 +0200
 >>Subject: EMBLA 2002 - Hessdalen Optical & Ground Survey

 >>Massimo Teodorani, Ph.d astrophysicist has released his
 >>report 'EMBLA 2002 - An Optical and Ground Survey in Hessdalen'.

 >>This report presents the results from the August 2002 field
 >>expedition in Hessdalen, Norway, a joint collaboration between
 >>Italian and Norwegian scientists in order to study the
 >>unidentified light phenomenona reoccuring in the valley.

 >>The high-energy plasma hypothesis has been considerably weakened
 >>from this years optical measurements and analysis of light
 >>distribution, which suggests two possible interpretations:

 >>1) A silicon electro-heated ball-lightning -like 'lightball'
 >>which can optically simulate a solid (object).

 >>2) A uniformly illuminated solid (object).

 ><snip>

 >>The complete report can be found at:

 >>http://www.hessdalen.org/reports/EMBLA_2002_2.pdf

 >They have relied on the point spread function of an image PSF to
 >estimate the size and shape of the object itself. However, this
 >PSF is also a function of brightness and it can be distorted by
 >excessive film exposure that saturates the film and makes a
 >"flat top" in the PSF curve. They assume that a flat top PSF is
 >an indicator of a "real object of some size" that is being
 >geometrically imaged according to the above equation. However,
 >as just pointed out, the flat top could simply be a result of
 >overexposure caused by an object too small to resolve ("point"
 >source) that is very bright.

While this is a possibility in general, it is not true for this
specific case.

The phenomenon has been observed with just human eyes on many
accounts, and it can be clearly resolved to having dimensions
which is much larger than what you suggest.

There is no over-exposure of the photographs and digital images
on which the optical analysis has been based.

I can recommend you read the report more carefully and perhaps
also study the reports and articles from past missions as well
as the Project Hessdalen resources on the subject. Ofcourse,
going to Hessdalen and doing your own investigation would put
you in the best position to make qualified criticism.


Christoffer








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                  'Rational' Christian Look At UFOs And ETs

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 03:38:28 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 04:31:09 -0400
Subject: 'Rational' Christian Look At UFOs And ETs


Source: The Christian Broadcasting Network,

http://cbn.org/700club/profiles/hugh_ross.asp

Stig

***

GUEST

Hugh Ross

The 700 Club

October 10, 2002

The founder of Reasons to Believe presents a rational Christian
look at UFOs and extraterrestrials.

CBN.com --

Scientific Approach

**

Hugh has been stargazing since he was a young boy, and by the
age of 17, he had become director of observations for the Royal
Astronomical Society in Canada. As an astronomer, Hugh has
logged thousands of observation time and has learned that
science can and does address the possibility of life's existence
elsewhere in the universe. In the mid-'70s, Hugh was assigned
the task of processing UFO reports at CalTech. At the same time,
Hugh began an intense study of the Bible. "Secular society is
gullible about the possibility that extraterrestrial life exists
without having scientific evidence to prove it," says Hugh. "The
motivation for this book is the need to communicate clear,
satisfying explanations from scientific, theological,
philosophical, and political standpoints."

Hugh says that he uses the scientific approach called "the
process of elimination" to answer the question Is there a place
where extraterrestrials could live in the universe? Over the
years, science has made some significant advances. "The number
of candidates for life sites within the Milky Way grows smaller
each day," says Hugh. At one time, biologists speculated that
extraterrestrial life forms might be based on exotic chemistry,
not carbon as earthly life is. But today the conclusion is that
all conceivable life forms must be carbon-based. And if life
forms exist on other planets, they must be planets like Earth,
orbiting a star like the sun in a galaxy like the Milky Way.
"Ongoing research shows that this seems less possible as each
year passes," says Hugh.


Residual UFOs


Most people think UFOs are physical. "But they can't be
physical," says Hugh, "because they defy gravity." While Hugh
does not say that UFOs aren't real, no physical object can move
like UFOs have been reported to move. Respected UFOolgists agree
that there must be something real at the bottom of some UFO
reports. Residual UFOs (RUFOs) is a terminology that refers to
the UFOs that are left over after all the others are explained
away. There is quite a bit of evidence that UFOs are real, such
as crash sites. There are over 1,000 sites where allegedly the
UFOs have crashed. "The ground is depressed, the trees and grass
are burnt," says Hugh. "In these scenarios, we are dealing with
non-physical reality." What this evidence suggests is that RUFOs
are capable of producing physical effects, such as burnt grass,
but are not physical themselves.

Hugh says the Bible proclaims the existence of a personal
Creator who can act independently outside the cosmos and who is
not restricted by the four, large space-time dimensions (length,
width, height or time). The Bible also describes the spirit
realm (the realm beyond matter, energy and space-time
dimensions) and declares the existence of God and two or more
distinct creatures: humans and angels. Hugh explains that humans
remain physically restricted to the dimensions of the cosmos and
cannot account for the unexplained phenomena. Angels, or fallen
angels, remain as possible links. Fallen angels, or demons,
intent on distorting God's authority and purpose, draw attention
away from God and the gospel and are an identifiable source of
explanation.

The conclusion that demons are behind the RUFOs phenomenon is
testable. According to the Bible, demons attack only those
individuals who invite the attacks. "All that is necessary to
further prove the conclusion of demonic involvements," says
Hugh, "is to continue surveying people to ascertain who has
encounters with RUFOs and who does not." Researchers continue to
observe a correlation between the degree of invitations in a
person's life to demonic attacks (seance, Ouija boards,
astrology, witchcraft, palm or psychic reading). One reason why
research scientists may be reluctant to say specifically that
demons exist behind the RUFOs is because that answer points too
directly to a Christian interpretation of the problem.

**

The Christian Broadcasting Network, Inc. =A9 2002








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                      Re: Crisis At CUFOS - Jones, Bill

From: William E Jones <jonesw@BATTELLE.ORG>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 09:01:42 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 16:18:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Crisis At CUFOS - Jones, Bill


 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 11:15:59 -0500
 >Subject: Crisis At CUFOS

 >Listfolk:

 >The continued existence of the J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO
 >Studies (CUFOS) is in question. By "continued existence" I mean
 >that CUFOS as it has existed since 1973, when Dr. Hynek and
 >Sherman J. Larsen created it, may fold within the next few
 >weeks.


To All:

Having attended the Board meeting with Jerry I can only report
that Jerry's assessment of the condition of CUFOS is accurately
stated here.

This condition is not the result of any actions or inactions of
the Board members or because of a lack of leadership and skills
of those who have been involved in the day-to-day management of
the Center.

Rather I think it is reflective of the condition of Ufology
today, at both the national and local levels.

Subscriptions are down with all of those newsletters, journals
and magazines that take a more-or-less objective approach to the
subject. There are probably many reasons for this.

The Internet is the one most often cited.

Also, in our society today people are not volunteering their
time and money as much as they used to, since it now seems to
take two or more incomes for a family to keep up an average
standard of living while years ago, one adult family member
could do that.

I don't think Americans care less today than they once did.

UFO sightings are down, or they seem to be, irrespective of the
seemingly constant flow of usually lesser quality sighting
reports (lights in the sky type reports) through important
channels of information such as the National UFO Reporting
Center and Filer's Files, and through other less important
channels as well.

But I think there has come a realization that the UFO phenomena
is a mystery that just isn't going to be resolved easily (if at
all) with the tools we have at hand within ufology, certainly
with the extremely low level of funds that are available to it.

We seem to have pushed the envelope of knowledge about as far as
we are currently able. So the interests of ufologists are being
directed into other areas of community involvement where perhaps
they can make more of a difference. And certainly with our
country being involved in the strange war against terrorism and
the prospects of a larger war with Iraq, the focus of the media
and the media's reader and viewer ship is not on UFOs.

The J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO Studies brings a unique
intellectual viewpoint to Ufology. While this viewpoint has
often brought criticism its way, without that viewpoint I
believe the field of Ufology will suffer.

The Center emphasizes that good quality research approaches must
be applied to whatever subject is being studied. No claim should
be made without good evidence to support it.

The Center has been criticized by some for pursuing the Roswell
story beyond the point in time where these people believe the
story had been satisfactorily resolved.

While the resolution of that story is open to some question, if
one looks at how the Center has studied the story, I think you
will see that it was attempting to locate good quality evidence
that others had not yet found.

Perhaps that evidence is not out there.

Perhaps investigator's time and resources could have been spent
better on other pursuits.

That is a matter for debate. But what the Center cannot be
criticized for is its approach. It didn't "believe" in the
story. It supported those who were trying to get more facts. It
didn't push the Roswell story as an event. It tried to
understand better what was behind that event, be it a Mogul
balloon, a government experiment run amok, an alien event, or
the result of lies and deceptions from a number of sources. What
is wrong with that? What is wrong with the application of some
intellectual discipline to a story that certainly has intrigued
most of us for a long time? We need an organization within
Ufology that epitomizes that approach.

The Center needs your help.

If the Center is going to survive the subscription base must be
increase substantially, somewhere close to what it once was. The
IUR was the funding base for the Center. It helped pay the
overhead costs for the office and the maintenance of a very
comprehensive and valuable set of records that are unique within
the field.

I have to be realistic here.

It will be very difficult for the subscription base to come up
to the required level fast enough for the Center to survive with
an office and the associated resources.

What is immediately needed if the office is going to survive is
an infusion of funds - a donation - from one or several people
that will give the Center a chance to increase the IUR
subscription base and once again find other sources of funding.

The Center was successful at this in the past and I would hope
there is like support out there in the future. Inspire of the
economic slow down, there are rich people out there who wouldn't
miss the relatively small amount of funds (for them) that the
Center needs.

Or in the alternative, if a large number of more
normal folks (like me) would each donate smaller amounts of
funds, the result would be the same. If a sufficient amount of
funding becomes available, a trust fund could be set up for the
Center that could help pay the overhead bills. Sufficient
funding for a trust fund could make the funding problem go away
for good. Is there someone out there that any of you know who
might be interested in helping with this? Please think about it.
To survive in its current form, the Center needs help soon,
certainly within the next two months or so.

While this seems to be doom-and-gloom for the supporters of the
Center, I think the Center can and will survive without the
office and the infrastructure that it now possesses. It won't be
able to provide the same services that it now does. There will
be no Center where researchers can go to use the Center's
library and records. But I have argued for the Center's
continuing role within ufology. I think even the IUR can
survive, perhaps at a lower publication rate. But the Center
still needs some level of support of the UFO research community
to do this.

Folks, there is a role for the Center but it needs your support.
If CUFOS can't survive, then perhaps the other major
organizations around the US and overseas can't either. Do we
really want the survival of ufology to depend on just what is
available on the Internet? I think not.

Please, if you can help, do so. We need to keep alive Dr.
Hynek's vision of a center of quality where scientists and other
serious researchers can go to get information and do research.
It is up to each of you to see that CUFOS survives.


Bill Jones

CUFOS Board Member
MUFON State Director for Ohio










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                    Re: Crisis At CUFOS - Ballester Olmos

From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos@yahoo.es>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 15:03:00 +0200 (CEST)
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 16:29:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Crisis At CUFOS - Ballester Olmos


 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 11:15:59 -0500
 >Subject: Crisis At CUFOS

 >Listfolk:

 >The continued existence of the J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO
 >Studies (CUFOS) is in question. By "continued existence" I mean
 >that CUFOS as it has existed since 1973, when Dr. Hynek and
 >Sherman J. Larsen created it, may fold within the next few
 >weeks.

<snip>

Jerry and All,

In times of crisis, severe solutions are recommended. The
ultimate goal is to be the preservation of files, and the
secondary (yet important one) the continuation of the excellent
IUR journal. The intelligent solution must be to merge, to join
forces. With whom? With MUFON.

Impossible? Well, let me tell you a story. When serious UFO
research arose in Spain at the end of the sixties, there were
various groups in frank competition, under vigorous leadership
and sometimes with serious differences of focus: CIOVE in
Santander (Julio Arcas), RNC in Sevilla (Jose Riesga), CEONI in
Valencia (Ballester Olmos). We all were young. But now, all
those groups have vanished and all the manpower, archives,
energy and resources are united as the Anomaly Foundation.

Fortunately, the staff of both CUFOS and MUFON is composed of
mature professionals, with business-like operating manners and
solid scientific backgrounds, and I am sure that the Boards of
both organizations will be intelligent enough to conclude that
the future of ufology in the US passes by the consolidation of a
common entity, otherwise, in due time, the crisis will affect
the others as well.

Hard negotiations, yes, I know, but in these times we need
people with a vision who strive to be able to evolve to a fresh
definition of what a UFO organization must be in century XXI.

Sorry to enter into what can be considered to be only a US,
local issue, but we all are in the same ship as far as
conservation of files and journals is concerned.

Vicente-Juan

P.S. Of course I'm an IUR subscriber - from issue number 1!








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              Re: Air Traffic Staff See 'Ghost Planes' - Jones,

From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 14:10:18 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 16:32:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Air Traffic Staff See 'Ghost Planes' - Jones,



 >From: David  Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 17:45:44 +0100
 >Subject: Air Traffic Staff See 'Ghost Planes'

 >BBC News online, 10 October 2002

 >http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2316085.stm

 >AIR TRAFFIC STAFF SEE 'GHOST PLANES'

 >"Ghost planes" are appearing on computer screens at the new
 >national air traffic control centre at Swanwick.

 >It is believed the phantom aircraft, which appear over the North
 >Sea, are caused by screens showing incorrect radar data.

 >It is the latest glitch to hit the =A3623m centre in Hampshire
 >since it opened in January.

 >A spokesman for National Air Traffic Services (Nats) insisted
 >safety was not being compromised by the non-existent planes.
 >Staff warned

<snip>

Good Afternoon David, All

I have read a considerable amount of computer press articles
about the new "NAT's" system, and it's multiple flaws.

Ghosting, difficult to read displays, poorly coded software,
numerous bugs, seriously over budget, seriously over time
scales, just to mention a few!

But David, why have you dropped your standards to _include_ this
as a _UFO_ article? In my previous experiences with you and your
work, you would have descended like a ton of bricks upon the
head of a believer if one had posted this as _potential_
explanation for _possible_ UFO's.

Regards

Sean

--

    In an infinite universe, infinitely anything is possible.
                         Sean Jones
               http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/







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                   Re: Bruni's Bentwaters Bunker? - Bruni

From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 14:20:13 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 16:35:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Bruni's Bentwaters Bunker? - Bruni


 >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 06:40:15 +0200
 >Subject: Bruni's Bentwaters Bunker?

 >Source: East Anglian Daily Times,

 >The public remain fascinated by stories that there could be an
 >underground bunker at Bentwaters. Georgina Bruni, an author and
 >researcher on the Rendlesham UFO incident near Woodbridge
 >Airfield, had access to the command post during her
 >investigations.

 >In her book, You Can't Tell The People, she concluded there was
 >n underground facility. But Bill Kemball, managing director of
 >Bentwaters Parks Ltd, said there was no underground facility at
 >the bunker and the family had not discovered anything elsewhere
 >on the huge site.

They will not find anything.

There is no access to any underground facility at Bentwaters, as
I mention in the book. According to the then chief of security
for Bentwaters (1998), access to the underground facilities were
sealed by the MOD prior the site going up for sale. He wrote to
the MOD several times enquiring as to their location, but he
received no reply whatsoever on that point.

It would not be unusual for a military site to have underground
facilities, many were built during and after the war. My father
worked in an underground facility during the early part of the
cold war, working on codes or something, which he still will not
talk about.

According to a senior officer at Bentwaters (1980) there was an
underground facility in or near the command post that few had
access to, but when questioned as to what it was used for he
said it was a store area. Further adding (which may or may not
be relevant) that if there was a nuclear attack they would be
shut in there for quite some time.

As there was not much room for storage in the bunker, it's
possible that there was such a facility. Don't forget also, that
there were tunnels under the base which housed the oil pipes.
Where is the access to these?

Georgina Bruni








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              New Documentary: UFOs: The Australian Connection

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 06:12:54 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 05:28:26 -0400
Subject: New Documentary: UFOs: The Australian Connection


Source: Sunbury and Macedon Ranges Telegraph,

http://www.telegraph.com.au/read.asp?article=3D2106523.txt&s=3Dnews

Stig

***

Friday 11/10/2002

UFO glimpse sparks dark documentary. 'I saw a saucer go into a
cloud. It popped out and went back in.'

**

JASON Groves was only 15 when he said he first sighted an
unidentified flying object (UFO).

He was riding home on a school bus from Warrnambool to Wangoom
when, at 4.15pm, he witnessed an out-of-this-world phenomenon.

"I saw a saucer go into a cloud. It popped out and went back in.

"It was silver, definitely silver and made from some sort of
steel substance.

"It was glittering," he said.

Now 24 and living in Gisborne, Mr Groves has decided to dedicate
his life to UFO research.

He heads the UFO research organisation Dark Matters
Investigations, which collects information for the Australian
UFO Research Network. He is also a writer for UFO magazines.

His latest project is a documentary examining the evidence
available on UFO reports in Australia compared to the US.

The objective of the documentary - UFOs: The Australian
Connection - is to prove that UFOs are a worldwide phenomena and
of alien origin.

Mr Groves said he was seeking information from anyone in the
Sunbury and Macedon Ranges region that may have seen a UFO or
strange light in the region.

He admitted that the idea of life beyond earth and flying
saucers seemed far-fetched to most people, but said that he was
convinced the flying object he saw in 1987 was a UFO.

"I had an interest in space (prior to 1987), but didn't really
believe in UFOs until I saw one.

"I looked into the subject and started to contact a few groups
and went from there.

"I have seen a few strange lights since then, but not recently,"
he said.

Mr Groves said UFOs could be distinguished from other flying
objects because of their distinctive saucer shape.

He said there had also been reports of triangular-shaped UFOs.

The Australian UFO Research Network said it hadn't received any
reports of UFOs in Sunbury and the Macedon Ranges but that they
had received reports of "strange lights".

"Strange lights are different from other lights in the sky
because of the way they move. The cases we received reports on
mainly moved in zigzags. They were in one place at one moment
and jumped distances to another place the next," Mr Groves said.

He said only 10% of cases reported would be of interest, but all
unexplained phenomena was worth reporting for investigation
purposes.

Mr Groves believes space and military organisations have
evidence to prove that UFOs exist.

"In 1938 CBS screened Orson Welles' War of the Worlds. It was a
mock story and America nearly self-disintegrated. Everyone
thought it was for real and started to panic.

"Why would we be the only living intelligent creatures?" he
asked.

If you have seen a UFO or strange light contact the Australian
UFO Research Network on 1800772288.

Mr Groves hopes to have completed his documentary by March.

**

Copyright =A9 John Fairfax Holdings Ltd 2000. Any unauthorised
use, copying or mirroring is prohibited.








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                           Re: Gleason - Goldstein

From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 06:40:19 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 05:46:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Gleason - Goldstein


 >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 01:23:59 EDT
 >Subject: Re: Gleason

 >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 12:06:16 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Are We Really Ready For Disclosure?

 ><snip>

 >>For a number of reasons, I find the story pretty hard to
 >>believe. It seems highly unlikely that even a President could
 >>bring an unauthorized civilian into a secure site holding
 >>secrets of the alleged magnitude. Since no independent evidence
 >>seems to exist and the source of the anecdote is of uncertain
 >>reliability, the story should be regarded, in my judgment, as
 >>little more than yet more saucer folklore

 >Keep in mind that I think the Gleason story is in the same
 >league as mass landings in the desert SW on April 24th 1997, and
 >the much claimed and talked about ET landing that was going to
 >happen on a mountain top in Arizona in Dec of 2000.

 >Slight disagreement with Jerry. If a President of the United
 >States wanted to take his best buddy to some AFB to show them
 >something Top Secret, who would be in authority to stop the
 >President?


Hi Robert and Jerry,

But did anyone ever give Ed Norton a polygraph and asked him?

What about Nixon himself? Was he really a human from Whittier,
CA? Where did he _really_ come from? Was Spiro Agnew a hostile
alien from an ugly planet?

It's a good thing that, as far as I know, Bill never took Monica
to the deep, ultra black center of the top secret of the ages. I
don't mean sexually, as he claimed they never had sex but that
she just performed sexyterial services on him.

He should have learned from John and Bobby Kennedy to start
clandestine special security missions outside your own home and
only with Marilyn Monroe types who know how to keep secrets.
Obviously, if President Clinton had told Monica any ultra-
secrets she would have been terminated, just for him telling her
such a place exists, even if he never tried to take her there.
Before the scandal erupted Monica did not understand the term
"loose lips sink ships" as she tried to seduce Bill. And I guess
Bill never looked below his belt and realised that loose zips
sink ships.

Like Marilyn, Monica would be finished through a rectal drug
implant that leaves no toxicological traces. Her diaries would
be sanitized to vanish forever, just like Marilyn Monroe's. :>)


Back to the ultraworld,

Josh










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                 Re: Space Center Houston Review - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 10:38:09 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 18:26:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Space Center Houston Review - Maccabee


 >From: Rebecca Keith <rebeccas@airmail.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 22:00:46 -0500
 >Subject: Space Center Houston Review


 >Source: The Houston Press

 >www.houstonpress.com/issues/2002-10-10/calendar2.html/1/index.html

 >Space Center & Me
 >Or, how I learned to stop caring and accept the dumb
 >by Dylan Otto Krider


 >A bird's-eye view of bullshit.


 >"Crop Circles"
 >Details: Through January 5. 10 a.m. to 6 p.m. Saturdays through
 >Sundays; 10 a.m. to 5 p.m. Mondays through Fridays. $15.95,
 >$11.95 for children. 281-244-2100.
 >Where: 1601 NASA Rd. 1

 >Every clique has an "out" group that insiders make fun of. For
 >stoners, it's kickers; for kickers, it's hipsters. When I was a
 >research assistant during my brief stint as an astrophysics
 >major, our whipping boys of choice were the UFO believers and
 >perpetuators of the theory that aliens built the pyramids. Our
 >views of these "pseudoscientists" varied from mild amusement to
 >fear their wackiness could bring about the end of civilization.

<snip>

 >It would not be possible to come up with an exhibit more at odds
 >with everything a research institution like NASA stands for than
 >"Crop Circles." A TV documentary -- which, scientists complained
 >to The Dallas Morning News, creatively edits their "this is
 >crap" answers to make them look like supporters of this kind of
 >madness -- plays in the background. The walls display official-
 >looking newspaper clippings, which use fancy terminology like
 >"plasma" and "magnetic fields." Exactly two of them express what
 >most scientists believe, which is that those groups that
 >admitted to pressing down the cornstalks with boards weren't
l>ying. They are adjacent to an article that says "scientists"
 >are angry that these "hoaxters" trivialize the idea of alien
 >origins. (No, scientists fear crop circles delegitimize honest
 >scientific pursuits like SETI.)

 >Where have these articles appeared in print? Nowhere. They were
 >written by the exhibit curator, taken mostly from the book Vital
 >Signs, by Andy Thomas.

<snip>

 >For Space Center, the mandate to "bring people in" has gone
 >beyond movie tie-ins. They now feel obligated to trump up and
 >sell ideas that NASA scientists give absolutely zero credence.
 >And they're getting more visitors as a result. But understand:
 >Space Center Houston has nothing to do with science. It's about
 >selling tickets, even if they have to sell out NASA to do it.

This writer pans agriglyphs and accepts the "Doug and Dave"
scenario as "the" explanation. I wonder what he and the other
scientists who have accepted Doug and Dave would think of the
attempt by the MIT students to construct an agriglyph with some
of the properties of a "real circle" as portrayed on the
Discovery Channel documentary on crop circles. Their methods of
causing expulsion cavities and micron sized iron particles were
effective but far beyond the ability of any "Doug and Dave" type
hoaxer.








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                             Russian UFO Theory

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 11:00:39 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 18:30:02 -0400
Subject: Russian UFO Theory


Pavel Poluyan has written an article on space defense of the USA
which includes the following statement:

"Physicians" (he means physicists) "have discovered an
interesting effect: it turned out that air shines right in the
place where two radar rays with definite characteristics cross.
A man-caused "star" appears in the sky at that. If the radar
rays are co-ordinated, the star starts roaming the sky, which in
its turn produces a surprising effect. This effect caused many
legends about unidentified flying objects that can fly quicker
than the velocity of light, its course can be zigzag at that. It
is like a spot of reflected light that children like so much. As
for more realistic flying objects, you can read about them in my
book, UFO Liquidation. It's available at:

www.krasu.ru

Poluyan became internationally "famous" last spring for his
publication of a book that explains UFOs. To my great surprise
he based his secret US weapon explanation on my UFO-FBI book in
which I argue that even the US military rejected the secret
weapon explanation.

He used the data (information) in my book to argue the exact
opposite of my conclusion.

Go figure!

Anyway, this new explanation is also bogus. Whereas two
microwave beams of sufficient power and the proper frequencies
that interesect at a very high altitude might well affect the
"atmosphere."

However, this is at such a high altitude that any effects that
might possibly be seen would be extremely faint at night and not
seen at all during the day.

It seems to me that the most likely visible effect would be some
sort of modulation of the light from a pre-existing aurora
display.

And, of course, this hypothesis could not explain low altitude
unexplained lights/objects.






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              Re: Jacques Vallee Discusses UFO Control System -

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 08:31:27 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 18:31:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Jacques Vallee Discusses UFO Control System -


 >From: Colm Kelleher - NIDS <nids@anv.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 17:01:57 -0700
 >Subject: Jacques Vallee Discusses UFO Control System

 >Jacques Vallee interviewed by Jerome Clark 1978

 >Full interview can be downloaded at:

 >Clark: But isn't that rather dangerous =97 in the sense that
 >there's a real risk the investigator, even if he is emotionally
 >stable and intellectually sophisticated, might be overwhelmed by
 >the experiences involved?

 >Vallee: Yes, there are dangers. Witness what happened to Morris
 >Jessup or to Jim McDonald.

Hello List,

Does someone know what particular "experience" Jim McDonald went
through, which Vallee may have had in mind here?


Jim Deardorff







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                 Mysterious Ocean Lights & Underwater Aliens

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 17:33:17 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 19:38:31 -0400
Subject: Mysterious Ocean Lights & Underwater Aliens


Source: Pravda.RU

http://english.pravda.ru/main/2002/10/11/38027.html

Stig

***

2002.10.11/14:10

Mysterious Ocean Lights and Underwater Aliens

Strange, unexplained phenomena observed

**

The World Ocean... What do we know about it? The most ancient
forms of underwater life exist extreme depths, causing
mysterious phenomena, for example, luminescence of the ocean:
giant wheels rotating with great speed, luminous lines crossing
the ocean from one skyline to the other, and huge fluorescent
streaks rising from the depth.

These phenomena were observed from the ship Bintang in 1909 and
described by I. Gitelson in his book "Living Light of the
Ocean." "Waves of light were moving from west to east.
Gradually, they took the shape of long rays coming from one
center at the skyline and rotating clockwise. These rays were
not straight, but concave. The whole system was moving, while
reducing the speed of its movement, and gradually it vanished
all together."

And now a case of light illumination observed a year earlier in
the Ochotsk Sea from the ship Ochotsk: "Suddenly, an unusual
green-white light broke out under the stern, which soon occupied
most of the water's surface. This luminous surface had an oval
shape and moved for some time together with the ship, then
gradually separated from it and flew ahead of it. It moved away
fast and shone as a strip."

Now, let us be carried to North-Chinese Sea, to the year 1893.
The British ship Caroline. The officer on the watch noticed some
unusual lights between the ship and Mount Aucland. While the
officer watched them, they gathered into a heap or lined up. The
ship was moving at a speed of 7 knots, and the line of lights
also moved at the same speed. Around midnight, they vanished.

In 1977, the Soviet newspaper Nedelya wrote about the same
phenomena. The luminescence was observed by Vladimir Vorobyov
from a Soviet research ship. "After having completed an ocean
investigation, the team suddenly noticed a white light rotating
clockwise at a distance of 150 or 200 m, which split into eight
parts. A sonar device registered a depth of 170 m and showed the
presence of a big mass under the keel at a depth of 20 m. After
30 minutes, the luminescence disappeared."

In 1976, Bulgarian sailors Yulia and Doncho Popasov carried out
a world tour on their 8-m ship. In late April, they saw large
circles of light circles on the water surface, which were
sliding past. The sailors got the impression that, from the
ocean depths, a searchlight shone. Yulia even heard a moan
behind his back. She turned around, and something very huge
seemed to hang over her. Then she saw a large light approaching
the ship. It had the shape of a ship with people onboard.

Were they aliens? Sometimes, mysterious lights have also been
seen in the sky.

Once, US scientist A. Sanderson in his article "Aboriginal of
Sea Depths" expressed a risky thought about an underwater
civilization existing on Earth. If we look for extraterrestrial
intellect in space, why not to look for it in ocean, which gave
life to land? In this way, professor Sanderson explains some
strange phenomena.

In his article, Sanderson refers to the well-known book by Thor
Heyerdahl about his Kon-Tiki trip. One gloomy night, the
steersman noticed a dim blaze over the water, which gradually
took the shape of an animal. The ghostly creature always changed
its shape. Sometimes it was round, sometimes oval, sometimes
triangular, then it suddenly split up to two parts, which
separately moved under the raft.

[Link:] Russian UFO Portal

Translated by Vera Solovieva

**

=A91999 "Pravda.RU". When reproducing our materials in whole or in
part, reference to Pravda.RU should be made.








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                           Secrecy News - 10/11/02

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 11:33:54 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 19:42:39 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News - 10/11/02


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2002, Issue No. 100
October 11, 2002


**      SCIENCE: BALANCING OPENNESS AND SECURITY
**      EXAMINING INTELLIGENCE OVERSIGHT ABROAD
**      CRS REPORTS OF NOTE
**      DOCUMENTING THE PROGRESSIVE CASE


SCIENCE: BALANCING OPENNESS AND SECURITY

The sometimes delicate relationship between scientific research
and national security was the subject of a hearing yesterday
before the House Science Committee.

"The war on terrorism will be won in the laboratory just as much
as on the battlefield," according to Committee chairman Sherwood
L. Boehlert. But "if the laboratory is a theater of war, then
what are its rules of engagement? War demands secrecy; science
thrives on openness. How can a free society balance those
competing demands?"

The hearing focused in particular on the proposed new category
of "sensitive but unclassified" information, and on the
treatment of foreign students and faculty.

"Sensitive but unclassified" information - also recently
designated "sensitive homeland security information" - has been
controversial because it has no clear definition, and therefore
seems to invite the arbitrary withholding of information.

Most of the witnesses at the hearing objected to the
indeterminate character of the new category, which is neither
fish nor fowl (nor meat nor dairy). The prevailing sentiment
was that classified information should be classified, and
unclassified information should simply be unclassified.

But White House science advisor John H. Marburger testified that
the "sensitive" category is not new and does not signify any
shift in government information policy.

"The designation Sensitive Homeland Security Information (SHSI)
does not refer to some new category of information; rather it is
the type of information that the government holds today which is
not routinely released to the general public, such as law
enforcement data and critical computer security threats or
vulnerabilities. The vast majority of government information is
and will remain publicly accessible," Dr. Marburger said.

In a significant public commitment, he added that "The [SHSI]
designation would be implemented under existing law and policy,
and complements and does not supercede existing mechanisms for
classification and declassification of government information."

The prepared testimony from the October 10 hearing on
"Conducting Research During the War on Terrorism: Balancing
Openness and Security" is posted here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/2002/index.html#sci

The proceedings of a somewhat related workshop on "Secrecy and
Knowledge Production," held at Cornell University in 1999, may
be found here (see Occasional Paper 1999.23):

http://www.einaudi.cornell.edu/PeaceProgram/publications/occasional.asp


EXAMINING INTELLIGENCE OVERSIGHT ABROAD

Scholars, government officials, and citizen activists gathered
at an international workshop in Geneva, Switzerland last week to
consider the theory and practice of intelligence oversight in
democratic societies, including the obstacles to effective
oversight in both new and mature democracies.

The workshop yielded an interesting assortment of published
papers, which notably provide new information about intelligence
agencies in several Eastern European countries.

The papers and other information about the conference, which was
sponsored by the Geneva Centre for the Democratic Control of
Armed Forces, may be found here:

http://www.dcaf.ch/news/Intelligence%20Oversight_051002/ws_Intelligence.html

Information on the intelligence services of dozens of countries
may be found here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/world/index.html


CRS REPORTS OF NOTE

The Congressional Research Service has recently updated several
reports of current interest, including the following.

"Iraq: U.S. Efforts to Change the Regime," by Kenneth Katzman,
updated October 3:

http://www.fas.org/man/crs/RL31339.pdf

"Iraq: Divergent Views on Military Action," by Alfred B. Prados,
updated October 3:

http://www.fas.org/man/crs/RS21325.pdf

"Intelligence to Counter Terrorism: Issues for Congress," by
Richard A. Best, Jr., February 21:

http://www.fas.org/irp/crs/RL31292.pdf

"Critical Infrastructure Information Disclosure and Homeland
Security," by John D. Moteff and Gina Marie Stevens, updated
August 31:

http://www.fas.org/irp/crs/RL31547.pdf


DOCUMENTING THE PROGRESSIVE CASE

The first time that the U.S. government ever imposed prior
restraint on a U.S. publication was in 1979 when it sought to
block publication of Howard Morland's 1979 Progressive Magazine
article on "The H-Bomb Secret."

The Morland article became the subject of a landmark lawsuit
(United States of America v. The Progressive) that raised
challenging questions about the role of nuclear secrecy, the
limits of government accountability, and the requirements of the
First Amendment. The case also divided the scientific
community. (The Federation of American Scientists opposed
publication of the article, which eventually appeared in the
November 1979 issue of The Progressive.)

Now, over two decades later, some of the central points of
contention have been declassified and disclosed in the form of a
1979 exchange of correspondence between the eminent Hans Bethe,
who opposed publication of the Morland article, and Livermore
physicist Ray E. Kidder, who favored it.

The 1979 Bethe-Kidder correspondence, with an introduction by
Howard Morland, is posted here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/eprint/bethe-kidder.html

_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:  www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email: saftergood@fas.org
voice: (202) 454-4691







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                 Strong Evidence For Solar Systems Like Ours

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 18:14:01 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 19:51:06 -0400
Subject: Strong Evidence For Solar Systems Like Ours


Source: University of California, UCLA News,

http://newsroom.ucla.edu/page.asp?id=3D3589

Stig

***

UCLA, British Astronomers Discover the Wake of a Planet Around a
Nearby Star -- Strong Evidence for Solar Systems Like Ours

Date: October 10, 2002
Contact: Stuart Wolpert ( stuartw@college.ucla.edu )
Phone: 310-206-0511

**

An international team of astronomers reports the first strong
evidence for the existence of massive planets on wide orbits =97
like those of Saturn, Uranus and Neptune =97 around many stars.
The new research provides some of the strongest evidence so far
that solar systems similar to our own, or even larger, are
likely to exist.

"Our evidence for large planets on wide orbits around many stars
is iron- clad, while before there was some weasel room," said
Benjamin Zuckerman, UCLA professor of astronomy and member of
the research team who analyzed and interpreted the new data.
"For life- bearing, Earth-like planets to exist in other solar
systems, large planets on wide orbits are likely to be
essential."

The research team reports the discovery of a huge distorted disk
of cold dust surrounding Fomalhaut (pronounced Fo-mal-ought),
one of the brightest stars in the sky. Fomalhaut is located
about 25 light years away from our sun, is estimated to be 2.3
times as massive as the sun and about 1.7 times the diameter.
The most likely cause of the distortion is the gravitational
influence of a Saturn-like planet at a large distance from the
star tugging on the disk. The new observations of Fomalhaut are
reported in a paper to be published in the Astrophysical Journal
=97 the most widely read journal in astronomy.

One hundred planets are already known to exist outside our solar
system, none of which has yet been seen directly by a telescope.
These planets, nicknamed "hot-Jupiters," are roughly the size of
the planet Jupiter, but have orbits much closer to their star
than Jupiter's is to our sun.

"What is new and exciting about the observation of Fomalhaut is
that it probes the space much more distant from the star =97 on
scales of the orbits of Uranus, Neptune and beyond," said Wayne
Holland of the UK Astronomy Technology Centre (UK ATC) in
Edinburgh, who led the research team. "We were amazed to find
that the disk is actually bent around the star. This strongly
suggests there is an orbiting giant planet shaping the dust we
see."

Fomalhaut, which lies in the constellation of Piscis Austrinus
(the Southern Fish), is only about 200 million years old =97 an
infant compared to our sun at 4.5 billion years. Fomalhaut, the
17th- brightest star in the sky, derives from the Arabic name
for this star, Fum al Hut, meaning "The Fish's Mouth." The
alternative Latin names for the star, Os Piscis Meridiani or Os
Piscis Notii, mean "The Mouth of the Southern Fish."

The giant planets in the Milky Way, Jupiter and Saturn, are
believed to have formed 10 million years after the sun, while
the Earth formed in about 100 million years. For about 600
million years, our solar system was bombarded by comets and
asteroids, until, as Zuckerman said, "the gravitation of Jupiter
and Saturn, the 'garbagemen of the solar system,' cleaned out
these massive objects that could have decimated life.

"We believe Fomalhaut's solar system looks quite similar to our
own solar system when it was only 200 million years old,"
Zuckerman said. "At that age, a planetary system already would
have formed. We would have trouble seeing it with optical
telescopes because of the shroud of dust."


High-resolution image


The research team presented widely reported findings on
Fomalhaut in 1998, and has an image now with twice the
resolution of the 1998 image.

"Our previous image did not have the resolution to pinpoint the
detail we are now seeing," said Jane Greaves, one of Holland's
colleagues on the project. "We could see a hole in the disk near
the star, and thought it was cleared out by the gravity of a
planet like Jupiter, but we had no idea there was anything
further from the star."

The dust disk surrounding Fomalhaut is so cold, and emits so
little light, that it is completely invisible to optical
telescopes such as the Hubble Space Telescope. Instead, the
astronomers used a telescope and camera that operate in the so-
called "submillimeter" region of the electromagnetic spectrum,
which lies between infrared light and radio waves.

The astronomers see the effect of the large planet on the dust,
and infer the planet's existence from the asymmetrical dust. The
distribution of the dust is shaped by the gravitational field of
the unseen planet.

Holland's team used the James Clerk Maxwell Telescope (JCMT) at
the summit of Mauna Kea, Hawaii, the world's largest telescope
dedicated to the study of light at submillimeter wavelengths.
With a specially cooled camera called SCUBA, they were able to
measure the tiny amounts of heat radiated by the dust particles
that make up the disk.

SCUBA (Submillimeter Common User Bolometer Array), which was
built at the Royal Observatory, Edinburgh, has detectors that
are cooled to just one- tenth of a degree above absolute zero (-
273 degrees Celsius). It has already found young nurseries where
stars are being born and has discovered distant galaxies near
the edge of the Universe.

The research team is now analyzing SCUBA pictures of additional
bright stars, including Vega =97 in the constellation of Lyra and
the brightest star in our summer sky =97 which also show very
clear evidence of gravitationally disturbed dusty disks. It is
the dusty structures visible in the SCUBA images that indicate
that massive planets having orbits as large as or larger than
those of Saturn, Uranus and Neptune must exist around many other
stars, Zuckerman and Holland concluded. Even though no such
planet has yet been imaged directly, the SCUBA images yield the
first good observational evidence that massive planets with big
orbits "are really out there," Zuckerman said.

The disk appears a bit like a doughnut with a hole in the center
around the star. "The Fomalhaut disk is close to edge-on as we
see it, and in the image it looks like the ends of the
'doughnut' are brighter," Greaves said. "The disk is about the
same size as the sun's Kuiper Belt of comets which orbits
outside Neptune and Pluto, so we may be seeing a region near
Fomalhaut that has many millions of comets."


Implications for other planets like Earth?


Is the universe filled with planets like Earth?

Solar systems like the ones containing the "hot-Jupiters" are
not hospitable to Earth-like planets that can sustain life,
Zuckerman said, because these giant planets have orbits too
close to their stars; the gravitational fields of these giant
planets would disturb the orbits of Earth-like planets and make
life as we know it impossible.

While the new data do provide strong evidence for massive
planets at a much more desirable location for Earth-like planets
to exist, Zuckerman still believes intelligent life in the
universe is extremely rare, and perhaps unique to Earth.

The astronomers plan a new survey of more than 100 nearby stars.
Holland is also leading a team to build a new, more powerful
camera ("SCUBA-2").

"SCUBA-2 will be able to image disks, such as the one around
Fomalhaut, in just a few minutes, instead of the many tens of
hours it currently takes," said Ian Robson, deputy director of
the UK ATC.

The research team also includes UK ATC astronomers Mark Wyatt
and William
Dent, and Iain Coulson, with the Joint Astronomy Centre in Hawaii.

Zuckerman's research is funded by the UCLA Astrobiology
Institute, which is supported by NASA. Holland's team received
funding from The Particle Physics and Astronomy Research Council
(PPARC), the UK's strategic science investment agency. PPARC
funds research, education and public understanding in particle
physics, astronomy, cosmology and space science.


Online resources


The Particle Physics and Astronomy Research Council: www.pparc.ac.uk/

James Clerk Maxwell Telescope: www.jach.hawaii.edu/JACpublic/ JCMT/

Benjamin Zuckerman: www.physics.ucla.edu/people/
faculty_members/zuckerman.html

-UCLA/UK ATC-

LSSW516








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   Oct > Oct 11

                       Re: Angel Hair Links - Gehrman

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 10:20:37 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 19:56:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Angel Hair Links - Gehrman


 >From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 21:09:59 -0400
 >Subject: Angel Hair Links

 >Greetings List

 >Below are a number of links which were compiled for the end of
 >Keith Basterfield's article but for some reason were never
 >incorporated into the Project 1947 material. Some links are old
 >and may have rotted away.

 >Jan Aldrich
 >Project 1947


Jan and list,

I wrote Dr. Lewis regarding his identification of the Santa Cruz
material as "spider's web":

Dr. Lewis,

In the article below you're quoted as saying that the angel hair
floating in the skys over Santa Cruz is some type of spider's
web. I wonder if you'd mind identifying the specific spider.
I've experienced this type of web like fall and I've never seen
a spider in any of the web material. Nor does the substance
resemble any spider's web I ever examined and I've examined
hundreds since I'm fascinated with spiders and have the
opportunity to examine them closely on a daily basis. Angel hair
is an entirely different substance. Have you personally seen the
web material in Santa Cruz?

Below is his reply:

I have not seen the material. I was asked by the reporter what
kind of spider material it was. The most likely material is that
used by the spiders to parachute from one location to another.
If it is not spider silk then any comments from me don't apply.

--

Randy Lewis
Professor, Molecular Biology
Director, Wyoming NSF EPSCoR
Box 3944, Laramie, WY 82071-3944
PH: 307-766-2147
FAX: 766-5098


My experience with Angel hair:

Friday, November 9th, (2001) I experienced a fall of what can
only be described as angel hair.

I was driving from Quincy Ca. (hwy 70) in the northern Sierras
to my daughter's home in Ukiah.

A few minutes before 3:00PM, I began to notice cobweb like
filaments floating in the air around me.

I immediately began to realize that the air was full of this
strange material. Some of the strands were as long as twelve
feet and seemed quite large while in the air but when they
landed they seemed to come together and lose mass.

Some of the material landed on my car and attached itself to the
antenna. But then I noticed the most amazing thing. The long
filaments were swinging in the air a good nine feet behind my
car and would not come off the antenna. even at speeds of 70mph.

All this took place between Butte City, (Hwy 162) 15 miles as
the crow flies east of I-5, through Princeton, then west again
to I-5 and continued down I -5 until Williams and on for two
miles west of Williams on Hwy 20. (Over two hundred square
miles)

One sample came from the rest stop 5 miles north of Williams
on I-5 going south, and the other was collected from the antenna
of my truck, after I returned home to Quincy. I still have some
of the material stuck to the antenna and mirrors of my
truck.

It's almost indestructible but if you try to touch it with your
hands it seems to decompose before your eyes.

It's impossible to collect a sample with your bare hands. I had
to wrap it very carefully around a large piece of aluminum foil
and even then it was close to impossible for my daughter and me
to get a sample in a closed container because it stuck to
everything.

The two samples I have are wrapped around tooth picks and there
is a good amount. The samples have been sealed since collection
and I have not noticed an iota of change since I sealed them up
in jars 20 and 16 days ago.

And then there's the following story from Bill's excellent article.

Angel Hair Update, by Bill Chalker at:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/1998/aug/m16-012.shtml


Ed Gehrman










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                 CCCRN News: Mission, BC #2 and Radville, SK

From: Paul Anderson <psa@look.ca>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 14:48:35 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 19:58:16 -0400
Subject: CCCRN News: Mission, BC #2 and Radville, SK


CCCRN NEWS
The E-News Service of the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network

http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada

October 11, 2002

_____________________________


UPDATES - MISSION, BC #2 AND RADVILLE, SK FORMATIONS

Additional aerial and ground photos, taken October 2, of the
Mission, British Columbia #2 corn formation have been posted to
the web site, showing the third stage of it's evolution into a
more complex pictogram (after the CCCRN ground survey had been
conducted on September 22, before the third additions had
occurred). A second diagram has also been posted, showing how
the formation changed from late August to late September, in at
least three known stages.

Also, some ground photos, the only known ones available, have
been added of the Radville, Saskatchewan formation, a single
circle in wheat approximately 9 metres (30 feet) diameter.

For all updates, see the Crop Circles in Canada 2002 page on the
web site:

http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada


Crop Watch is an annual research project of CCCRN, including
field investigations and studies of formations, aerial
surveillance and awareness initiatives for farmers, the public
and the media, in particular during the prime August / September
'circle season' on the Canadian prairies

____________________________


CCCRN News is the e-news service of the Canadian Crop Circle
Research Network, providing e-mail updates with the latest news
and reports on the crop circle phenomenon in Canada, as well as
other information on CCCRN-related projects and events, sent
free to your e-mail.

To subscribe, send an e-mail with Subscribe CCCRN News
in the subject line to:

cccrnnews@look.ca


The Canadian Crop Circle Research Network is a non-profit
research organization which has been investigating and
documenting the crop circle phenomenon and other possibly
related phenomena in Canada since 1995, creating a liason
between researchers, farmers, the public, the media and
scientists in trying to solve this ongoing enigma.

Main Office

202 - 325 East 14th Avenue
Vancouver, BC V5T 2M9 Canada
Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522
Cell: 604.727.1454
E-Mail: psa@look.ca
Web: http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada

=A9 Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, 2002








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                             Re: Math vs. Moore

From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 21:46:26 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 04:40:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Math vs. Moore


 >From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Math vs. Moore [was: Rudiak vs. Moore]
 >Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 01:52:31 -0700

<snip>

 >Obviously the real issue isn't whether I could figure out
 >somebody else's crappy methodology. The real issue is that
 >Moore's methodology is completely wrong and his resulting
 >"calculated" trajectory "exactly" to the Foster Ranch is
 >thoroughly bogus.

Well, I guess David's problem is that he just can't "think
outside the box," being too constrained by trivialities like
logic and reason. The debunkers obviously do not suffer from
such constraints and are therefore much more creative thinkers,
as, for example, when Bruce Hutchinson asserted:

"Obviously, one wind data entry must be thrown out. When looking
at Moore's table, the key is the first line gives an end point
of x=0, and y=0, stating that he he did not use the first wind
data entry."

On reading the above claim, my own highly unimaginative
speculation was that X=0 and Y=0 simply indicated that these
were the distances east and north from the launch site for the
first line of data in the table where the elapsed time entry
also should be zero. In other words, it appeared that Hutchinson
was referring to the origin point in the space and time
coordinate system Moore used and that the wind velocity and
other data on that line referred to the conditions at the
position from which the balloon was launched and at the time it
was launched. Since then, David has kindly emailed me a copy of
the table, and this is exactly what the caption says: 'X =
balloon displacement toward the east ...' and 'Y = balloon
displacement toward the north.'

I never would have dreamed of throwing out the data for the
origin of a coordinate system just to get the results I wanted
people to believe. This is more than merely novel. As the old
English guy used to say on a really bad cable channel creep
show: "it's Beyond Bizarre".

Moore either deliberately cooked the data or he was suffering
from what I refer to as "selective incompetence," which is an
affliction sometimes suffered by scientists writing official
public relations materials for taxpayer-supported agencies like
the Smithsonian Institution Press. The subtitle of Moore's book,
"Genesis of a Modern Myth," apparently refers to what Moore was
doing by writing the book as much as it does to whatever really
happened at Roswell.








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                         Re: Crisis At CUFOS - Gates

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 16:59:31 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 23:47:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Crisis At CUFOS - Gates


 >From: William E Jones <jonesw@BATTELLE.ORG>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 09:01:42 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Crisis At CUFOS

<snip>

 >Or in the alternative, if a large number of more
 >normal folks (like me) would each donate smaller amounts of
 >funds, the result would be the same. If a sufficient amount of
 >funding becomes available, a trust fund could be set up for the
 >Center that could help pay the overhead bills. Sufficient
 >funding for a trust fund could make the funding problem go away
 >for good. Is there someone out there that any of you know who
 >might be interested in helping with this? Please think about it.
 >To survive in its current form, the Center needs help soon,
 >certainly within the next two months or so.

Bill,

Why doesn't CUFOS make it "easier" for people to pay them for
various things. For example why not be able to take credit card
transactions on line? Pay for orders on line. Perhaps setup
paypal or something like that.

Just some more direct thoughts.

Cheers,

Robert







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   Oct > Oct 11

              New Documentary: UFOs: The Australian Connection

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 06:12:54 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 05:28:26 -0400
Subject: New Documentary: UFOs: The Australian Connection


Source: Sunbury and Macedon Ranges Telegraph,

http://www.telegraph.com.au/read.asp?article=3D2106523.txt&s=3Dnews

Stig

***

Friday 11/10/2002

UFO glimpse sparks dark documentary. 'I saw a saucer go into a
cloud. It popped out and went back in.'

**

JASON Groves was only 15 when he said he first sighted an
unidentified flying object (UFO).

He was riding home on a school bus from Warrnambool to Wangoom
when, at 4.15pm, he witnessed an out-of-this-world phenomenon.

"I saw a saucer go into a cloud. It popped out and went back in.

"It was silver, definitely silver and made from some sort of
steel substance.

"It was glittering," he said.

Now 24 and living in Gisborne, Mr Groves has decided to dedicate
his life to UFO research.

He heads the UFO research organisation Dark Matters
Investigations, which collects information for the Australian
UFO Research Network. He is also a writer for UFO magazines.

His latest project is a documentary examining the evidence
available on UFO reports in Australia compared to the US.

The objective of the documentary - UFOs: The Australian
Connection - is to prove that UFOs are a worldwide phenomena and
of alien origin.

Mr Groves said he was seeking information from anyone in the
Sunbury and Macedon Ranges region that may have seen a UFO or
strange light in the region.

He admitted that the idea of life beyond earth and flying
saucers seemed far-fetched to most people, but said that he was
convinced the flying object he saw in 1987 was a UFO.

"I had an interest in space (prior to 1987), but didn't really
believe in UFOs until I saw one.

"I looked into the subject and started to contact a few groups
and went from there.

"I have seen a few strange lights since then, but not recently,"
he said.

Mr Groves said UFOs could be distinguished from other flying
objects because of their distinctive saucer shape.

He said there had also been reports of triangular-shaped UFOs.

The Australian UFO Research Network said it hadn't received any
reports of UFOs in Sunbury and the Macedon Ranges but that they
had received reports of "strange lights".

"Strange lights are different from other lights in the sky
because of the way they move. The cases we received reports on
mainly moved in zigzags. They were in one place at one moment
and jumped distances to another place the next," Mr Groves said.

He said only 10% of cases reported would be of interest, but all
unexplained phenomena was worth reporting for investigation
purposes.

Mr Groves believes space and military organisations have
evidence to prove that UFOs exist.

"In 1938 CBS screened Orson Welles' War of the Worlds. It was a
mock story and America nearly self-disintegrated. Everyone
thought it was for real and started to panic.

"Why would we be the only living intelligent creatures?" he
asked.

If you have seen a UFO or strange light contact the Australian
UFO Research Network on 1800772288.

Mr Groves hopes to have completed his documentary by March.

**

Copyright =A9 John Fairfax Holdings Ltd 2000. Any unauthorised
use, copying or mirroring is prohibited.








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   Oct > Oct 11

             Re: Russian Design For A Disc-Shaped Plane - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 02:06:20 -0300
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 05:48:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Russian Design For A Disc-Shaped Plane - Ledger


 >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 14:43:03 +0000
 >Subject: Re: Russian Design For A Disc-Shaped Plane

 >>From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 01:50:31 +0200
 >>Subject: Russian Design For A Disc-Shaped Plane

 >>Source: The Voice Of Russia, science news,

 >>http://www.vor.ru/science/science_eng.html

 >>Stig

 >>Design for a disc-shaped plane

 >>The hit of an international investment fair in Vladivostok was a
 >>project by an inventor from the Maritime Territory, Yuri
 >>Bezrukov, to create a new aircraft that would transport up to 5
 >>passengers, weigh 1200 kilograms and would be about six meters
 >>in diameter.

 >>Driven by two engines the aircraft will fly at an altitude of 4
 >>kilometers at a speed of up to 700 kilometers per hour. And it
 >>will be able to fly non-stop one thousand kilometers. The
 >>machine is designed for vertical take-off and vertical landing.
 >>But it will need dozens of times less fuel than the current
 >>vertical take-off aircraft.

 >Powered, no doubt, by magic or wishful thinking. This sounds
 >like a re-run of the high performance PR 1955 version of the
 >AVRO disc which, of course, never got beyond ground effect (i.e,
 >never really got off the ground).


Hi Dick,

It's re-inventing the wheel anyway. A Lancair 4-P will get you
pretty much the same performance...and you can build it
yourself.

http://www.lancair.com/flash/ivp.html

Don







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   Oct > Oct 11

                CI: New Face Image & New Mystery 120 Km South

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 19:47:58 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 04:48:13 -0400
Subject: CI: New Face Image & New Mystery 120 Km South


Cydonian Imperative
10-8-02 / 10-10-02

New Face Image Released and New Mystery 120 km South...
by Mac Tonnies

See: http://mactonnies.com/cydonia.html


Malin Space Science Systems has released a new partial photo of
the Face on Mars, viewable at the the following URL:

www.msss.com/moc_gallery/e07_e12/images/E10/E1003730.html


[image]

The new Face image. Note "eye" and "nostril" features.


[image]

The Face seen from directly overhead in 2001.

The Face appears at a rather disorienting (but revealing)
"funhouse" angle due to imaging nadir. Other than that,
everything seems to be in order. Even the "eye" remains clearly
visible despite the bad resolution. Lan Fleming has noted that
the east "nostril" seems to be more visible in this photograph
than in the frontal 2001 image (see comparison above).


More analysis forthcoming.

----

10-10-02

Mark Carlotto on New Enigma

Cydonia research veteran Dr. Mark Carlotto has found an
enticingly geometric accumulation of formations in Cydonia, only
120 kilometers from the newly reimaged Face.

[image]

Note conspicuous "square" and additional suggestions of
deliberate architectural layout. Image courtesy Mark Carlotto.

The somewhat urban-looking collection shown above includes one
large partial square that invites archaeological speculation.
Geometric anomalies such as this--coupled with bizarre
formations such as the D&M Pyramid and Face--lend weight to the
possibility that this controversial region was once home to
intelligent beings.

Carlotto notes that Cydonia seems to be the site of increased
academic attention; despite probable hoaxes such as the THEMIS
"underground city," it's just possible that mainstream science
has begun to take note--albeit quietly--that Cydonia is an
interesting piece of extraterrestrial real estate.

Carlotto's latest findings (including a new 3-D animation of the
Face) can be found here:

http://www.newfrontiersinscience.com/cydoniacontroversy


Note: The Electric Warrior (http://www.electricwarrior.com) has
maintained consistently excellent coverage of breaking Mars
news. I encourage readers to check it out.

-end-







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                         Re: Crisis At CUFOS - Bott

From: Murray Bott <murrayb@win.co.nz>
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 01:09:31 +1300 (NZDT)
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 13:56:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Crisis At CUFOS - Bott


 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 11:15:59 -0500
 >Subject: Crisis At CUFOS

Greetings Jerry and list

Jerry wrote:-

 >The continued existence of the J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO
 >Studies (CUFOS) is in question. By "continued existence" I mean
 >that CUFOS as it has existed since 1973, when Dr. Hynek and
 >Sherman J. Larsen created it, may fold within the next few
 >weeks.

Big snip here

I am somewhat shocked to read this Bad News!!

CUFOS is a real leader in Ufology alongside MUFON and BUFORA
etc.

One suggestion:

If everyone on the UpDates list could encourage just one new
subscriber to IUR that may be a start.

Jerry, I already get IUR and this is a valued publication here.
Could you please get someone at CUFOS to post to me the current
subscription forms along with all the details of current
publications available.

I will photocopy these and give these around locally - the poor
exchange rate of the New Zealand Dollar (worth about 47 cents
US) means that we pay more than $2.00NZ for every $1.00US, thus
I cant promise anything but will give it a try

Regards
Murray Bott

--
Email : murrayb@win.co.nz
Voice : 64-9-6345285
Snail : PO Box 27117, Mt Roskill, Auckland 1030, New Zealand








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   Oct > Oct 11

             Re: Russian Design For A Disc-Shaped Plane - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 02:06:20 -0300
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 05:48:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Russian Design For A Disc-Shaped Plane - Ledger


 >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 14:43:03 +0000
 >Subject: Re: Russian Design For A Disc-Shaped Plane

 >>From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 01:50:31 +0200
 >>Subject: Russian Design For A Disc-Shaped Plane

 >>Source: The Voice Of Russia, science news,

 >>http://www.vor.ru/science/science_eng.html

 >>Stig

 >>Design for a disc-shaped plane

 >>The hit of an international investment fair in Vladivostok was a
 >>project by an inventor from the Maritime Territory, Yuri
 >>Bezrukov, to create a new aircraft that would transport up to 5
 >>passengers, weigh 1200 kilograms and would be about six meters
 >>in diameter.

 >>Driven by two engines the aircraft will fly at an altitude of 4
 >>kilometers at a speed of up to 700 kilometers per hour. And it
 >>will be able to fly non-stop one thousand kilometers. The
 >>machine is designed for vertical take-off and vertical landing.
 >>But it will need dozens of times less fuel than the current
 >>vertical take-off aircraft.

 >Powered, no doubt, by magic or wishful thinking. This sounds
 >like a re-run of the high performance PR 1955 version of the
 >AVRO disc which, of course, never got beyond ground effect (i.e,
 >never really got off the ground).


Hi Dick,

It's re-inventing the wheel anyway. A Lancair 4-P will get you
pretty much the same performance...and you can build it
yourself.

http://www.lancair.com/flash/ivp.html

Don







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                               A Strange Sight

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 08:51:19 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 08:51:19 -0400
Subject: A Strange Sight

http://www.dailyexpress.com.my/news.cfm?NewsID=14205

A Strange Sight...
10 October, 2002

[photo]

A surveillance camera (CCTV) mounted atop the Kota Kinabalu
International Airport terminal captured a rather strange sight
resembling a "flying coffin" (see right - picture below and a
close-up view above) hovering over Terminal Two, last Friday
night.

A senior Malaysia Airports Berhad (MAB) officer said the
revolving camera was focusing on the Terminal Two area at about
7:06pm when those monitoring the surveillance were caught by
surprise by the object "flying" across the scene within seconds
before disappearing from the screen.

An immediate check with the radar station showed the object did
not appear on their screen, except for a Malaysia Airlines (MAS)
Fokker aircraft taking off three minutes earlier.

The outline of the aircraft was clearly identified on the radar
screen, the officer said.

A security guard on duty in the area claimed to have seen the
object flying in a great speed over Terminal Two, initially seen
rising from the direction of the sea before disappearing over
the hills adjacent to the KKIA terminal. "There was no sound at
all," he said.


[UFO UpDates thanks http://www.anomalist.com for the lead]






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   Oct > Oct 11

                        Re: Angel Hair Links - Hebert

From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 02:05:59 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 05:52:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Angel Hair Links - Hebert


 >From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 21:09:59 -0400
 >Subject: Angel Hair Links

<snip>

 >Rusty's Retreat, Angel Hair incident of Sept 20, 2000 in West
 >Virginia. (Takes some time to load up. The Lab report was on
 >this site, but it is no longer there.)

 >http://www.homestead.com/rustys_retreat/spiderstuff.html

Rusty sent me a copy of the lab report and although not
indicated on her web site, the lab report indicated the
materials more closely resembled spider silk (I think I still
have the lab report in my files in the attic). Further study of
the images presented as evidence of alleged "angel hair" showed
nests similar to those created by tent spiders.

This link should be considered an example of misinterpretation
and misrepresentation of information and evidence not as a
source of information about angle hair.


A. Hebert








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                        Re: Angel Hair Links - Hebert

From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 02:05:59 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 05:52:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Angel Hair Links - Hebert


 >From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 21:09:59 -0400
 >Subject: Angel Hair Links

<snip>

 >Rusty's Retreat, Angel Hair incident of Sept 20, 2000 in West
 >Virginia. (Takes some time to load up. The Lab report was on
 >this site, but it is no longer there.)

 >http://www.homestead.com/rustys_retreat/spiderstuff.html

Rusty sent me a copy of the lab report and although not
indicated on her web site, the lab report indicated the
materials more closely resembled spider silk (I think I still
have the lab report in my files in the attic). Further study of
the images presented as evidence of alleged "angel hair" showed
nests similar to those created by tent spiders.

This link should be considered an example of misinterpretation
and misrepresentation of information and evidence not as a
source of information about angle hair.


A. Hebert








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             Re: Russian Design For A Disc-Shaped Plane - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 02:06:20 -0300
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 05:48:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Russian Design For A Disc-Shaped Plane - Ledger


 >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 14:43:03 +0000
 >Subject: Re: Russian Design For A Disc-Shaped Plane

 >>From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 01:50:31 +0200
 >>Subject: Russian Design For A Disc-Shaped Plane

 >>Source: The Voice Of Russia, science news,

 >>http://www.vor.ru/science/science_eng.html

 >>Stig

 >>Design for a disc-shaped plane

 >>The hit of an international investment fair in Vladivostok was a
 >>project by an inventor from the Maritime Territory, Yuri
 >>Bezrukov, to create a new aircraft that would transport up to 5
 >>passengers, weigh 1200 kilograms and would be about six meters
 >>in diameter.

 >>Driven by two engines the aircraft will fly at an altitude of 4
 >>kilometers at a speed of up to 700 kilometers per hour. And it
 >>will be able to fly non-stop one thousand kilometers. The
 >>machine is designed for vertical take-off and vertical landing.
 >>But it will need dozens of times less fuel than the current
 >>vertical take-off aircraft.

 >Powered, no doubt, by magic or wishful thinking. This sounds
 >like a re-run of the high performance PR 1955 version of the
 >AVRO disc which, of course, never got beyond ground effect (i.e,
 >never really got off the ground).


Hi Dick,

It's re-inventing the wheel anyway. A Lancair 4-P will get you
pretty much the same performance...and you can build it
yourself.

http://www.lancair.com/flash/ivp.html

Don







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                         Re: Crisis At CUFOS - Gates

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 16:59:31 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 23:47:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Crisis At CUFOS - Gates


 >From: William E Jones <jonesw@BATTELLE.ORG>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 09:01:42 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Crisis At CUFOS

<snip>

 >Or in the alternative, if a large number of more
 >normal folks (like me) would each donate smaller amounts of
 >funds, the result would be the same. If a sufficient amount of
 >funding becomes available, a trust fund could be set up for the
 >Center that could help pay the overhead bills. Sufficient
 >funding for a trust fund could make the funding problem go away
 >for good. Is there someone out there that any of you know who
 >might be interested in helping with this? Please think about it.
 >To survive in its current form, the Center needs help soon,
 >certainly within the next two months or so.

Bill,

Why doesn't CUFOS make it "easier" for people to pay them for
various things. For example why not be able to take credit card
transactions on line? Pay for orders on line. Perhaps setup
paypal or something like that.

Just some more direct thoughts.

Cheers,

Robert







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              New Documentary: UFOs: The Australian Connection

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 06:12:54 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 05:28:26 -0400
Subject: New Documentary: UFOs: The Australian Connection


Source: Sunbury and Macedon Ranges Telegraph,

http://www.telegraph.com.au/read.asp?article=3D2106523.txt&s=3Dnews

Stig

***

Friday 11/10/2002

UFO glimpse sparks dark documentary. 'I saw a saucer go into a
cloud. It popped out and went back in.'

**

JASON Groves was only 15 when he said he first sighted an
unidentified flying object (UFO).

He was riding home on a school bus from Warrnambool to Wangoom
when, at 4.15pm, he witnessed an out-of-this-world phenomenon.

"I saw a saucer go into a cloud. It popped out and went back in.

"It was silver, definitely silver and made from some sort of
steel substance.

"It was glittering," he said.

Now 24 and living in Gisborne, Mr Groves has decided to dedicate
his life to UFO research.

He heads the UFO research organisation Dark Matters
Investigations, which collects information for the Australian
UFO Research Network. He is also a writer for UFO magazines.

His latest project is a documentary examining the evidence
available on UFO reports in Australia compared to the US.

The objective of the documentary - UFOs: The Australian
Connection - is to prove that UFOs are a worldwide phenomena and
of alien origin.

Mr Groves said he was seeking information from anyone in the
Sunbury and Macedon Ranges region that may have seen a UFO or
strange light in the region.

He admitted that the idea of life beyond earth and flying
saucers seemed far-fetched to most people, but said that he was
convinced the flying object he saw in 1987 was a UFO.

"I had an interest in space (prior to 1987), but didn't really
believe in UFOs until I saw one.

"I looked into the subject and started to contact a few groups
and went from there.

"I have seen a few strange lights since then, but not recently,"
he said.

Mr Groves said UFOs could be distinguished from other flying
objects because of their distinctive saucer shape.

He said there had also been reports of triangular-shaped UFOs.

The Australian UFO Research Network said it hadn't received any
reports of UFOs in Sunbury and the Macedon Ranges but that they
had received reports of "strange lights".

"Strange lights are different from other lights in the sky
because of the way they move. The cases we received reports on
mainly moved in zigzags. They were in one place at one moment
and jumped distances to another place the next," Mr Groves said.

He said only 10% of cases reported would be of interest, but all
unexplained phenomena was worth reporting for investigation
purposes.

Mr Groves believes space and military organisations have
evidence to prove that UFOs exist.

"In 1938 CBS screened Orson Welles' War of the Worlds. It was a
mock story and America nearly self-disintegrated. Everyone
thought it was for real and started to panic.

"Why would we be the only living intelligent creatures?" he
asked.

If you have seen a UFO or strange light contact the Australian
UFO Research Network on 1800772288.

Mr Groves hopes to have completed his documentary by March.

**

Copyright =A9 John Fairfax Holdings Ltd 2000. Any unauthorised
use, copying or mirroring is prohibited.








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   Oct > Oct 11

                 Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'

From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 05:21:48 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 04:51:35 -0400
Subject: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'


 >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 02:50:44 +0200
 >Subject: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'

 >Source: AP Wire via Bayarea.com,

 >http://www.bayarea.com/mld/bayarea/4238723.htm

 >Stig

 >***

 >Posted on Tue, Oct. 08, 2002

 >Spider webs float through Santa Cruz

 >**

 >SANTA CRUZ, Calif. - Long, floating spider webs are bobbing
 >through the skies of Santa Cruz this week, confusing some
 >community members concerned about biological weapons, UFOs and
 >other phenomena.

 >The gossamer-thin, shimmery "sky webs" are between 18 inches and
 >several feet long, and have been seen drifting through the sky,
 >sailing along the coastline and, at times, catching on fences or
 >draping on trees.

 >The webs come from young spiders that launch themselves on their
 >homemade parachutes after hatching to be blown to a new home.

 >Independent television producer Bob Andruszkiewicz said he
 >called police after becoming worried about biological weapons,
 >"but then I thought, why would they pick Santa Cruz?"

 >People looking for UFOs have called the gossamer webs "angel
 >hair" and "aerial anomalies." Web sites say it could be an
 >indication of extraterrestrial beings or a spirit presence.

<snip>


Hello UpDaters,

I just want to say that this actually happened annually over the
many years I lived in Santa Cruz, CA and was MUFON State Section
Director for Santa Cruz, Monterey, and San Benito Counties.

I used to get bunches of calls, as I remember in the attic of my
mind. Well, at least I never got calls reporting rods in the
air.

Josh










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              New Documentary: UFOs: The Australian Connection

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 06:12:54 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 05:28:26 -0400
Subject: New Documentary: UFOs: The Australian Connection


Source: Sunbury and Macedon Ranges Telegraph,

http://www.telegraph.com.au/read.asp?article=3D2106523.txt&s=3Dnews

Stig

***

Friday 11/10/2002

UFO glimpse sparks dark documentary. 'I saw a saucer go into a
cloud. It popped out and went back in.'

**

JASON Groves was only 15 when he said he first sighted an
unidentified flying object (UFO).

He was riding home on a school bus from Warrnambool to Wangoom
when, at 4.15pm, he witnessed an out-of-this-world phenomenon.

"I saw a saucer go into a cloud. It popped out and went back in.

"It was silver, definitely silver and made from some sort of
steel substance.

"It was glittering," he said.

Now 24 and living in Gisborne, Mr Groves has decided to dedicate
his life to UFO research.

He heads the UFO research organisation Dark Matters
Investigations, which collects information for the Australian
UFO Research Network. He is also a writer for UFO magazines.

His latest project is a documentary examining the evidence
available on UFO reports in Australia compared to the US.

The objective of the documentary - UFOs: The Australian
Connection - is to prove that UFOs are a worldwide phenomena and
of alien origin.

Mr Groves said he was seeking information from anyone in the
Sunbury and Macedon Ranges region that may have seen a UFO or
strange light in the region.

He admitted that the idea of life beyond earth and flying
saucers seemed far-fetched to most people, but said that he was
convinced the flying object he saw in 1987 was a UFO.

"I had an interest in space (prior to 1987), but didn't really
believe in UFOs until I saw one.

"I looked into the subject and started to contact a few groups
and went from there.

"I have seen a few strange lights since then, but not recently,"
he said.

Mr Groves said UFOs could be distinguished from other flying
objects because of their distinctive saucer shape.

He said there had also been reports of triangular-shaped UFOs.

The Australian UFO Research Network said it hadn't received any
reports of UFOs in Sunbury and the Macedon Ranges but that they
had received reports of "strange lights".

"Strange lights are different from other lights in the sky
because of the way they move. The cases we received reports on
mainly moved in zigzags. They were in one place at one moment
and jumped distances to another place the next," Mr Groves said.

He said only 10% of cases reported would be of interest, but all
unexplained phenomena was worth reporting for investigation
purposes.

Mr Groves believes space and military organisations have
evidence to prove that UFOs exist.

"In 1938 CBS screened Orson Welles' War of the Worlds. It was a
mock story and America nearly self-disintegrated. Everyone
thought it was for real and started to panic.

"Why would we be the only living intelligent creatures?" he
asked.

If you have seen a UFO or strange light contact the Australian
UFO Research Network on 1800772288.

Mr Groves hopes to have completed his documentary by March.

**

Copyright =A9 John Fairfax Holdings Ltd 2000. Any unauthorised
use, copying or mirroring is prohibited.








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   Oct > Oct 11

                         Re: Crisis At CUFOS - Bott

From: Murray Bott <murrayb@win.co.nz>
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 01:09:31 +1300 (NZDT)
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 13:56:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Crisis At CUFOS - Bott


 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 11:15:59 -0500
 >Subject: Crisis At CUFOS

Greetings Jerry and list

Jerry wrote:-

 >The continued existence of the J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO
 >Studies (CUFOS) is in question. By "continued existence" I mean
 >that CUFOS as it has existed since 1973, when Dr. Hynek and
 >Sherman J. Larsen created it, may fold within the next few
 >weeks.

Big snip here

I am somewhat shocked to read this Bad News!!

CUFOS is a real leader in Ufology alongside MUFON and BUFORA
etc.

One suggestion:

If everyone on the UpDates list could encourage just one new
subscriber to IUR that may be a start.

Jerry, I already get IUR and this is a valued publication here.
Could you please get someone at CUFOS to post to me the current
subscription forms along with all the details of current
publications available.

I will photocopy these and give these around locally - the poor
exchange rate of the New Zealand Dollar (worth about 47 cents
US) means that we pay more than $2.00NZ for every $1.00US, thus
I cant promise anything but will give it a try

Regards
Murray Bott

--
Email : murrayb@win.co.nz
Voice : 64-9-6345285
Snail : PO Box 27117, Mt Roskill, Auckland 1030, New Zealand








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                  Strieber's Memory Fails In Hale-Bopp Tale

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 00:31:56 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 00:31:56 -0400
Subject: Strieber's Memory Fails In Hale-Bopp Tale

http://rense.com/general30/stmem.htm


Strieber's Memory Conveniently
Fails Him In Hale-Bopp Tale
10-11-2

Text from Whitley Strieber's 'Journal'... an egregious corruption
of reality:

[See: http://www.unknowncountry.com/journal/ ]

"Then the Heaven's Gate tragedy struck. A group of UFO
enthusiasts committed suicide in a looney attempt to get to the
object as souls. Art was pilloried in the national media and
among the UFO community. Lost in the shuffle was the fact that
he and I had exposed the apparent hoax. Lost, also, in the
shuffle was the fact that the entire astronomical community,
worldwide, was lying about the object."

FACT: At the very height of the radio and internet hype and
promotion of the Hale-Bopp 'companion' ET spaceship con job, my
webmaster, James Neff, had been running the ONLY internet site
devoted to a skeptical inquiry of the Hale-Bopp 'companion'
story.

FACT: One evening during my live, coast-to-coast program, James
was alerted by his astronomer-contact, Oliver Hainaut, at the
University of Hawaii, that he had discovered the infamous Hale-
Bopp 'companion' photo - featured on Bell's and other sites -
  was in fact an existing image of the comet which had been
reversed...and had then shown up with the 'companion' object
appearing in it.

FACT: When James' email to me arrived, I was on the air
interviewing Michael Lindemann. I IMMEDIATELY requested of
Michael, on the air, to pause our discussion as I had breaking
news to read. I then read the information from the University of
Hawaii which destroyed the entire Hale-Bopp 'companion' ET
spaceship image hoax and began to quiet the worldwide fears -
  and in some cases deadly panic - it had caused. The hoaxed
picture...the 'smoking gun'...was a total fraud. Michael will
have no trouble verifying what occurred on the program and how
the Hale-Bopp 'companion' story came to its demise.

FACT: The exposing of the Hale-Bopp 'companion' photo hoax on my
program and on my website had an immediate worldwide impact.

FACT: Art Bell did not do a live radio show later that night --
  a statement was read that he had suddenly taken ill and a taped
program would be aired.

Strieber:

"Lost in the shuffle was the fact that he (Bell) and I had
exposed the apparent hoax."

James Neff exposed the hoax and I announced it on live, national
radio and put the two photos - the original genuine photo and
the hoaxed photo - on site as well.

Strieber:

"Lost, also, in the shuffle was the fact that the entire
astronomical community, worldwide, was lying about the object."

MANY in the 'astronomical community' were stridently dubious of
the Hale-Bopp 'companion' photo and story, and gravely-lamented
the hype being perpetrated by Courtney Brown and others on
national radio and the internet.

Mr. Strieber appears suffering either from conveniently poor
memory, had a couple of 'senior moments' or is no longer able to
discern the line between fact and fiction. In any case, I have
avoided responding to the well-known past public, personal
attacks on me, my program and my entire listening audience by
this well-known science fiction writer.

However, in this case, his efforts to claim credit for exposing
the Hale-Bopp fraud cannot pass without comment.

 From James Neff 10-7-2

Another quickly overshadowed element in this debacle is that
Streiber, then apparently closely-tied with Brown and Calabrese
at the FarSight Institute, stated on the Art Bell show that he
had seen the "film" taken by the clandestine "leading university
astronomer" and had even taken a print of the Hale-Bopp image to
a 'University-level astronomer' friend and asked his opinion.

The astronomer, whom Whitley never named, supposedly signed off
on the image as authentic and disturbing...and worthy of further
analysis. It was, however, subsequently discovered through a
phone call I placed directly to Oliver Hainaut of the University
of Hawaii's Astronomy Department, that FILM is rarely ever used
-- and further, that the Hale-Bopp 'companion' image in question
was his, Hainaut's, digital tiff image (part of a complex 3-
plate imaging process) flopped over and reduced to jpeg -- and
clearly tampered with to add a 'companion' object.

This was announced by Oliver Hainaut on the Jeff Rense Program
more than 48 hours in advance of the Streiber/Bell 'outting' of
Courtney Brown. So, the question remains, what, in fact, did
Strieber possess and what 'film' did he see?? There was no film.
There was no 'print' from film, either. There was only a stolen
tiff image, flopped, and reduced to jpeg. And if that is what he
took to the 'University level astronomy professor' it seems very
peculiar that such an educated man would have had the reaction
he allegedly had...when not a single other University level
astronomy professor agreed (and I consulted several).

They all said the same things: (1) "I'd have to see the original
high resolution image," and (2) the 'companion' image was likely
a star 'blooming' on the CCD chip, a common artifact of DIGITAL
processing, not film.

How did Strieber gain access to what did not even exist? And
does this explain his overt participation in the on-air
crucifixion of Courtney Brown? At the time, Prudence Calabrese
was Whitley Strieber's departing webmaster and was apparently
the go-between from Brown to Strieber on the "film".... which
did not exist. Once we revealed the image was a DIGITAL farce,
it seemed to many listeners Strieber and others did a lot of
excess protesting and padding of the conflict to muddy the
issue, and divert attention from their earlier claims and de
facto involvement in the hoax.

And let no one forget Whitley's dramatic call for Art's
listeners to attempt to communicate telepathically with the
inbound Hale-Bopp 'companion' object's alien occupants!

The attempt to withhold credit for the hoax exposure from us and
then bringing Oliver Hainaut onto the Bell program as an
'original contact' are matters of record. Strieber's revisionist
history doesn't work...many people's memories aren't that short.
This is all yet another example of why UFOlogy remains in
trouble.

-----







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   Oct > Oct 12

                   Re: Bruni's Bentwaters Bunker? - Gates

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 17:06:08 EDT
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 08:10:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Bruni's Bentwaters Bunker? - Gates


 >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 06:40:15 +0200
 >Subject: Bruni's Bentwaters Bunker?


 >Source: East Anglian Daily Times,

 >http://www.eadt.co.uk/content/news/NewsStory.asp?Brand=EADOnline&Category=News
&ItemId=IPED09+Oct+2002+17%3A52%3A03%3A723

 >Stig

<snip>


 >The public remain fascinated by stories that there could be an
 >underground bunker at Bentwaters. Georgina Bruni, an author and
 >researcher on the Rendlesham UFO incident near Woodbridge
 >Airfield, had access to the command post during her
 >investigations.

 >In her book, You Can't Tell The People, she concluded there was
 >an underground facility. But Bill Kemball, managing director of
 >Bentwaters Parks Ltd, said there was no underground facility at
 >the bunker and the family had not discovered anything elsewhere
 >on the huge site.

 >Mr Kemball said: "The whole place was designed to withstand
 >conventional bombs and a nuclear fall-out.

However the possibility exists that there is in fact some kind
of underground facility.

In years gone by at an abandoned facility where it was apparent
no entrances to anything undergound, yet workman doing some kind
of plumbing or electrical work had to smash through part of a
wall and low and behold they found a doorway and a flight of
stairs.  When the facility had been abandoned the entrance had
been covered up/concealed so from all outward appearences there
was no entrances.

Point being is that until a sufficent site inspection is done,
and perhaps running down all the old construction engineering
drawings and blueprints we may never know.


Cheers,

Robert







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               Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 22:16:33 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 08:13:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'


 >From: Frank Warren <frank-warren@pacbell.net>
 >Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 06:31:06 -0700
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'

 >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 14:47:52 +0000
 >>Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'

 >>>From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 02:50:44 +0200
 >>>Subject: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'

 >>>Source: AP Wire via Bayarea.com,

 >>>http://www.bayarea.com/mld/bayarea/4238723.htm

 >>Back in the 1950s when NICAP first began studying 'Angel's Hair'
 >>reports in conjunction with CSI of New York, the first thing we
 >>noticed is what Isabel Davis referred to as the 'Octoberishness'
 >>of the reports. October is spider migration season in North
 >>America.

 >>- Dick

 >Greetings Dick & Stig & All,

 >My two cents if I may; although it is 'likely' that the so-
 >called 'spider webs' are indeed just that, I might point out
 >that northern California is often the location for 'chemtrail
 >spraying'. This has been going on the last few weeks in fact.
 >Currently I'm trying to ascertain whether the phenomena took
 >place over Santa Cruz the day of the 'spider web' sightings, and
 >or possibly the day before. I have seen a 'web-like' substance,
 >after chemtrail spraying, with my own eyes, and it looks very
 >much like a very 'thick' spider-web.

 >In addition, I might point out that Santa Cruz of course is
 >right on the coast, so 'where' the webs were sighted in the city
 >would seem to be paramount to the situation. (I don't think
 >there is a species of spider that lives in the sea, and the
 >winds usually moves westward). Also for the molecular biology
 >professor (from Wyoming) who I would guess offered his opinion
 >via the telephone, based on the article, seems to have a mind-
 >set not condusive to alternative explanations for this type of
 >phenomena. (How many times have we heard the statement, 'no such
 >thing?')

 >Anyway, the point is, without further data the only thing that
 >can be offered, in my opinion, is conjecture.


Frank,

What are "chemtrail sprayings?" Conjecture? Fantasy? Paranoid
imagination? You talk as if I should know and accept that
"chemtrail sprayings" are something real and established. If so,
where is the evidence, who is doing it, why, etc.?

Migrating spiders are a well-known and established fact of
nature.

"Chemtrail sprayings" insofar as I have read on the internet are
only someone's rich imagination without one iota of empirical
data. People see contrails that they don't think are normal
contrails, but present zero convincing evidence for this
conclusion.

I am very serious about this: What are "chemtrail sprayings" and
how do you know it?


  - Dick








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   Oct > Oct 12

                        Re: Crisis At CUFOS - Speiser

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 15:11:58 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 08:16:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Crisis At CUFOS - Speiser


 >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 00:11:47 EDT
 >Subject: Re: Crisis At CUFOS

 >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 11:15:59 -0500
 >>Subject: Crisis At CUFOS

 >>Listfolk:

 >>The continued existence of the J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO
 >>Studies (CUFOS) is in question. By "continued existence" I mean
 >>that CUFOS as it has existed since 1973, when Dr. Hynek and
 >>Sherman J. Larsen created it, may fold within the next few
 >>weeks.

 >>That was the issue discussed at length in the board meeting I
 >>attended in Chicago last Saturday (October 5). Revenue has been
 >>down significantly, and soon it will no longer be possible to
 >>keep the office - with its extensive files and resources, a
 >>world-class collection - open. Already discussions have opened
 >>with a university which has expressed interest in the materials.

 >>CUFOS' principal revenue source is International UFO Reporter
 >>(IUR), published four times a year for $25. IUR is often
 >>described as the best UFO magazine in the English language, with
 >>its emphasis on sober research and analysis. Like most (possibly
 >>all) other UFO journals, however, our subscription base has
 >>eroded over the years, a victim of the Internet and other forces
 >>beyond our control.
 >
 >>Without a substantial number of new subscriptions and renewals
 >>to IUR, CUFOS will be reduced to a kind of skeletal state, at
 >>worst surviving only as an website with occasional articles and
 >>reviews under the IUR title. The archives, with their convenient
 >>central location in Chicago, have been used by ufologists from
 >>all over the world, but they will no longer be available at
 >>their old address.
 >
 >>Allen Hynek started CUFOS as a scientific clearing house for
 >>reliable UFO data. He died in 1986, but those of us who survived
 >>him have done our best to keep his mission alive. We're now
 >>turning to you to make it possible to continue.
 >
 >Hi Jerry,
 >
 >An observation or two. As you well know, but perhaps many on the
 >List don't, the UFO subject peaked in the publishing industry in
 >1997 for the 50th anniversary of Roswell. From then on, it has
 >gone downhill, plunging in the last 2 years. Of late most on
 >the List saw the email from Arcturus books about how they may
 >have to close their doors by the end of October apparently due
 >to lack of interest in UFO books. People in the publishing world
 >tell me that the UFO subject doesn't excite near the interest
 >that it did in 1997, much like the Kennedy assassination books
 >no longer excite near the interest they did on the 30th
 >anniversary in 1993.

Just brainstorming here, but...

Would there be any wisdom in suspending operations until such
time as interest begins to increase again? Perhaps just
allocating a "keep-alive" budget, to maintain the name, pay for
storing the files, etc.

I know this will sound blasphemous, but...for the time being,
there doesn't seem to be anything to study. Sightings are up,
according to NUFORC, but _interesting_ sightings are way down.
Even here on the Internet, we seem to be going over the same old
ground, Roswell, Trindade Island, Kenneth Arnold... this stuff
has been beaten to death.

The IUR articles mentioned earlier reflect the same situation -
same old cases, no definitive answers.

Maybe it's time to put the IUR to bed for a while until
something comes along that justifies the expense and the efforts
of our best minds.

And mind you, it will.

==JJS==








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   Oct > Oct 12

                3-Stage Antigravity Lifter Bears 20 Gram Load

From: Kurt Jonach - The Electric Warrior
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 16:29:47 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 08:18:51 -0400
Subject: 3-Stage Antigravity Lifter Bears 20 Gram Load


Errol, & List

I don't know whether this is 'UFO' enough, but Tim Ventura of
AA-G called last time to say how much he enjoyed my article.
They say NASA can't really explain this. Wired is supposedly
making an inquiry.

-kj

--------------------------------------------------

The Electric Warrior : News October 11, 2002
http://www.electricwarrior.com/

--------------------------------------------------

 >> 3-STAGE ANTIGRAVITY LIFTER BEARS 20 GRAM LOAD
alternative science

photo: 3 Stage Lifter with Load
http://www.electricwarrior.com/img/3StageLifter.jpg

(The Electric Warrior) - An international group of "antigravity
hackers" has gained world wide attention for their flying balsa-
wood and aluminum foil triangles. These flying objects are not
unidentified, but how they work is deemed to be beyond
conventional science.

Last year people were asking, "Are Lifters real?" This year
people are asking "How do they work?" A new 3-stage design can
carry a 20 gram load.

Watching the net-enabled RealMovie videos distributed by JLN
Labs is a real hoot! "Now, I switch on the power supply..." says
French antigravity hacker Jean-Louis Naudin, and instantly his
new three-stage lifter leaps into the air bearing a 20 gram
weight in a make-shift receptacle.

The photo accompanying this blog shows Naudin's elegant multi-
triangle design.

TOWNSEND BROWN CAPACITORS

OK, the Lifter can lift 20 grams. What are we talking about
here, the weight of a large coin? Typically only money or
jewelry is measured in grams.

Plus, the Lifters are tethered to their power supplies by a thin
wire that provides the necessary high-voltage electricity. These
flying triangles aren't ready to bear the weight of their own
motive energy source. Not even close. They are tied to the
ground, earth-bound.

So, you won't be taking your hoverboard out for a ride very
soon, but the fact that Lifters can lift anything at all is a
breakthrough for these weird science researchers.

Naudin says his test results confirm the Lifter devices are
fully scalable. The multi-stage set up indicates that the load
is proportional to the number of asymmetrical capacitors. So,
the Lifters can presumably be made much larger than they are
today, and doubling the capacitors should double the amount of
load they can carry.

If talk about asymmetrical capacitors sounds a little like SF
movies such as "Back to the Future" or "Buckaroo Banzai", well,
meet Thomas Townsend Brown, the maverick American physicist
whose ideas about electrogravitation form the theoretical basis
for Lifter experiments.

As told by Tim Ventura of American Antigravity, Lifter
technology does not involve true antigravity but rather a method
of producing a directional thrust. That's consistent with the
Townsend Brown experiments. According to Ventura a Lifter's
acceleration is too fast for its load. In other words, it
somehow counteracts gravity.

When The Electric Warrior talked to Ventura last May, he had
just finished construction of the largest Lifter to date. It
reportedly flew for seven hours straight. Those of you following
his story will be interested to know that the Lifters will soon
enjoy some mainstream coverage by Wired Magazine.

Meanwhile, back at JLN Labs Jean-Louis Naudin says the next
Lifter milestone is a weight of 100 grams.

--------------------------------------------------
RELATED RESOURCES

10-Oct-02
The 3 stages Lifter v3.0 with 20 g of payload
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/3slft320g.htm

(JLN Labs) - The purpose of this experiment is test a new 3
stages Lifter version. This version is bigger than the previous
version. The 3 stages Lifter v3.0 is composed of 54 asymmetrical
Townsend Brown capacitors Vs 27 for the 3 stages Lifter v2.0.

07-Oct-02
Wired Magazine & Media Coverage
http://www.americanantigravity.com/wired-interview.html

(American Antigravity) - Wired magazine is
currently attempting to obtain comments on the
Lifter project and Biefeld-Brown effect from NASA
and the Institute for Software Research in New
Jersey. Wired plans on publishing the story behind
Lifter technology in an upcoming issue.

--------------------------------------------------
THE ELECTRIC WARRIOR
October 11, 2002
Silicon Valley, CA
http://www.electricwarrior.com

Graphics & Gonzo

--------------------------------------------------
The "3 Stage Lifter with Load" photo is copyright
Jean-Louis Naudin.

Do you like this article?

This text is freely distributable for non-commercial purposes,
provided you cite The Electric Warrior. Web developers should
link here...

http://www.electricwarrior.com/news/ewNews0049.htm

Readers are strongly cautioned that The Electric Warrior asserts
it is OK to laugh and have a good time with some of this stuff.
Lighten Up! (You Have Been Warned)

The Electric Warrior is not responsible for the content of Web
links. Content reproduced here is for informational purposes
only. All copyrights Acknowledged.

eWarrior@electricwarrior.com










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   Oct > Oct 12

              Re: Jacques Vallee Discusses UFO Control System -

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 19:09:13 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 08:21:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Jacques Vallee Discusses UFO Control System -


 >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 08:31:27 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Jacques Vallee Discusses UFO Control System

 >>From: Colm Kelleher - NIDS <nids@anv.net>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 17:01:57 -0700
 >>Subject: Jacques Vallee Discusses UFO Control System

 >>Clark: But isn't that rather dangerous - in the sense that
 >>there's a real risk the investigator, even if he is emotionally
 >>stable and intellectually sophisticated, might be overwhelmed by
 >>the experiences involved?

 >>Vallee: Yes, there are dangers. Witness what happened to Morris
 >>Jessup or to Jim McDonald.


 >Does someone know what particular "experience" Jim McDonald went
 >through, which Vallee may have had in mind here?


Jim,

I conducted this interview fully 25 years ago. Were I to do it
today, I would have challenged this melodramatic assertion,
which is based on nothing, as far as I can see, beyond
uninformed speculation and the assumption (which in my
observation Vallee is not alone in making) that ufologists don't
have personal lives wholly apart from their UFO pursuits

What Jessup and McDonald had in common, besides broken
marriages, was a susceptibility (not unrelated to those frayed
relationships) to deep depression. To every available
appearance, depression led to their respective suicides, not
sinister conspiracies or paranormal harassment.


Jerry Clark








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   Oct > Oct 12

                    Enterprisemission Website Still Down

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 08:43:23 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 08:43:23 -0400
Subject: Enterprisemission Website Still Down

http://topica.com/lists/mars-updates/read/message.html?mid=1711192387&sort=d&sta
rt=1953


Hoaxland Statement: Due to the incredible interest in The
Enterprise Mission of late, we have outgrown our website
provider and we are in the process of moving the website and
discussion forums to a new home. Keep checking back here for
updates and news.

Translation: Due to the recent libelous attack against Dr. Mark
Carlotto we recently posted, our ISP has removed our site due to
violations of Terms of Service. We are diligently looking for
another ISP that is either foolish, or desperate enough, to risk
hosting our site in the future.

(Opinions stated above are only my own.)

Steve

Steve Wingate, Webmaster
ANOMALOUS IMAGES AND UFO FILES
http://www.anomalous-images.com
Latest Update: Cydonia in 3-D
http://www.anomalous-images.com/Odyssey/Cydonia_3-d.html








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               Re: 'Rational' Christian Look At UFOs And ETs -

From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 02:54:43 +0200
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 08:54:18 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Rational' Christian Look At UFOs And ETs -


 >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 03:38:28 +0200
 >Subject: 'Rational' Christian Look At UFOs And ETs

 >Source: The Christian Broadcasting Network,

 >http://cbn.org/700club/profiles/hugh_ross.asp

 >Stig

 >***

 >GUEST

 >Hugh Ross

 >The 700 Club

 >October 10, 2002

 >The founder of Reasons to Believe presents a rational Christian
 >look at UFOs and extraterrestrials.

 >CBN.com ?

 >Scientific Approach

 >**

 >Hugh has been stargazing since he was a young boy, and by the
 >age of 17, he had become director of observations for the Royal
 >Astronomical Society in Canada. As an astronomer, Hugh has
 >logged thousands of observation time and has learned that
 >science can and does address the possibility of life's existence
 >elsewhere in the universe. In the mid-'70s, Hugh was assigned
 >the task of processing UFO reports at CalTech. At the same time,
 >Hugh began an intense study of the Bible. "Secular society is
 >gullible about the possibility that extraterrestrial life exists
 >without having scientific evidence to prove it," says Hugh. "The
 >motivation for this book is the need to communicate clear,
 >satisfying explanations from scientific, theological,
 >philosophical, and political standpoints."

 >Hugh says that he uses the scientific approach called "the
 >process of elimination" to answer the question Is there a place
 >where extraterrestrials could live in the universe? Over the
 >years, science has made some significant advances. "The number
 >of candidates for life sites within the Milky Way grows smaller
 >each day," says Hugh. At one time, biologists speculated that
 >extraterrestrial life forms might be based on exotic chemistry,
 >not carbon as earthly life is. But today the conclusion is that
 >all conceivable life forms must be carbon-based. And if life
 >forms exist on other planets, they must be planets like Earth,
 >orbiting a star like the sun in a galaxy like the Milky Way.
 >"Ongoing research shows that this seems less possible as each
 >year passes," says Hugh.

 >Residual UFOs

 >Most people think UFOs are physical. "But they can't be
 >physical," says Hugh, "because they defy gravity." While Hugh
 >does not say that UFOs aren't real, no physical object can move
 >like UFOs have been reported to move. Respected UFOolgists agree
 >that there must be something real at the bottom of some UFO
 >reports. Residual UFOs (RUFOs) is a terminology that refers to
 >the UFOs that are left over after all the others are explained
 >away. There is quite a bit of evidence that UFOs are real, such
 >as crash sites. There are over 1,000 sites where allegedly the
 >UFOs have crashed. "The ground is depressed, the trees and grass
 >are burnt," says Hugh. "In these scenarios, we are dealing with
 >non-physical reality." What this evidence suggests is that RUFOs
 >are capable of producing physical effects, such as burnt grass,
 >but are not physical themselves.

 >Hugh says the Bible proclaims the existence of a personal
 >Creator who can act independently outside the cosmos and who is
 >not restricted by the four, large space-time dimensions (length,
 >width, height or time). The Bible also describes the spirit
 >realm (the realm beyond matter, energy and space-time
 >dimensions) and declares the existence of God and two or more
 >distinct creatures: humans and angels. Hugh explains that humans
 >remain physically restricted to the dimensions of the cosmos and
 >cannot account for the unexplained phenomena. Angels, or fallen
 >angels, remain as possible links. Fallen angels, or demons,
 >intent on distorting God's authority and purpose, draw attention
 >away from God and the gospel and are an identifiable source of
 >explanation.

 >The conclusion that demons are behind the RUFOs phenomenon is
 >testable. According to the Bible, demons attack only those
 >individuals who invite the attacks. "All that is necessary to
 >further prove the conclusion of demonic involvements," says
 >Hugh, "is to continue surveying people to ascertain who has
 >encounters with RUFOs and who does not." Researchers continue to
 >observe a correlation between the degree of invitations in a
 >person's life to demonic attacks (seance, Ouija boards,
 >astrology, witchcraft, palm or psychic reading). One reason why
 >research scientists may be reluctant to say specifically that
 >demons exist behind the RUFOs is because that answer points too
 >directly to a Christian interpretation of the problem.

 >**

 >The Christian Broadcasting Network, Inc. =A9 2002

Stig,

For some unfathomable reason you felt that slightly sane UFO
investigators such as myself and most Listerions needed to see
this missive of sacred speculation. The author made a
fundamental typo in the headline. It should have read "The
founder of Reasons to Believe takes an irrational Christian look
at UFOs and extraterrestrials"

Even when I wrote my recent post regarding angel hair I did not
know it was demonic. Why,I touched some and that must be the
reason why I didn't ever win the Lottery. Now I have been shown
the light and I have been told that it is demonic because it is
the falling hairs of fallen angels. That really scares me Stig.
If I ever see angel hair again I will run for my life and
salvation as far from it as I can get. I'll pray away on every
step I take.

The only thing rational about your missive is that it is one
more piece of evidence why fundamentalism attracts primarily the
mentally challenged folks.

I mean just what the H**ll species of alien is Jerry Falwell
anyway?

He's just a fundamentalist radical Islamists dressed in the same
piece of psychotic garb, only turned inside out. So, there must
be the following:

homo sapiens, hetero sapiens, and psycho sapiens. The hetero
sapiens is a new subspecies for men and women who refuse to
accept that some men and women are wired differently. Who knows
why? It may have happend long ago in Sumeria. It may have been
written on a long ago lost tablet.


Back to beyond the bizarre,

Josh
The happy heathen








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   Oct > Oct 12

               New Zealand's 50th Anniversary In UFO Research

From: Murray Bott <murrayb@win.co.nz>
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 13:29:47 +1300 (NZDT)
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 08:54:27 -0400
Subject: New Zealand's 50th Anniversary In UFO Research



Greetings List

Today (New Zealand time) marks the 50th Anniversary of UFO
Reasearch in New Zealand. I issued the following Press Release
to the Media and send it to the list for your information


Regards

Murray Bott

-----

PRESS RELEASE
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(written by Murray Bott 8th October, 2002)

50th Anniversary of UFO Research in New Zealand

New Zealand's largest collection of UFO material is preserved in
Auckland

The 12th October 2002 is the 50th Anniversary of UFO Research in
New Zealand.

On the evening of the 12th October, 1952, a group of people
interested in flying saucers met and formed the research group
Civilian Saucer Investigations (New Zealand) - or CSI (NZ) for
short. RNZAF Sergeant Harold Fulton was elected President and
remained the group's driving force throughout its operation.

Initially the group had a closed membership. It opened public
subscription the following year. Within a few months its
membership increased to 150 and eventually to 500.They published
a quarterly newsletter called "Flying Saucers" (later
"Spaceprobe") and held public meetings. Several branches were
formed around New Zealand wherever local members were
concentrated. Correspondence with overseas groups was
established and magazines were exchanged.

In 1953 California based George Adamski produced a sensational
book Flying Saucers Have Landed. Adamski's account told of
meetings with Venusians and other "space people" with names like
Orthon. In 1954 Fred Dickeson formed the Adamski Correspondence
Group in Timaru. Audio tapes made by Adamski were played at
meetings.Later Henk Hinfelaar formed an additional Adamski
Correspondence Group in Auckland. Many smaller ACG's were formed
in towns around New Zealand. Hinfelaar co-ordinated those in the
North Island, and Dickeson those in the South Island.

Fulton initially tolerated the Adamski approach. In 1959 Adamski
had a popular tour of New Zealand and Fulton openly challenged
his claims. Co-operation between Fulton and the Adamski groups
ceased. CSI went into recess for two years in December 1959,
prior to Fulton's posting overseas to Singapore. No one else at
CSI was prepared to run the organisation.

After the Adamski tour the ACG's changed their name to New
Zealand Scientific Space Research Group (NZSSR). By this time
both the North Island group and South Island group published
their own independent newsletters.

In 1961 the South Island Group (under Dickeson) suggested
Adamski's story was a hoax and his photos were faked. They
changed their name to Scientific Approach to Cosmic
Understanding (SATCU) and changed their magazine's name to
"SATCU" - later "Xenolog". (It ceased publication in 1980.)
Hinfelaar's North Island group continued their own publication
"Spaceview" until the early 1970's.

After two year's in Singapore, Harold Fulton was posted to
Ohakea Air Force Base (near Palmerston North). Being away from a
major city and potential support base, he chose not to re-start
CSI. He continued UFO research independently. During the 1960's
he was New Zealand Consultant to the American based Aerial
Phenomenon Research Organisation (APRO) and the National
Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomenon (NICAP). In 1973
Fulton joined the newly formed American group Mutual UFO Network
(MUFON) as New Zealand Director, a position he held until his
death in 1986.

The only surviving UFO group from this era is the former
Tauranga Adamski Correspondence Group. It was later re-named the
Tauranga UFO Investigation Group. Its driving force, since its
founding, has been Harvey Cooke. They held three highly
successful UFO conferences during the 1970's. The group still
holds monthly meetings after more than 40 years of active
investigation - probably a record for any UFO group in the
world.

Significant New Zealand UFO events include the 1959 "Close
Encounter" case reported by Mrs Eileen Moreland near Blenhiem,
and the 1978 radar/visual case when balls of light were filmed
near Kaikoura.

Fulton's records still survive. They are stored by Murray Bott
(now MUFON's New Zealand Director). These records form the
central core of a large UFO archive that Murray continues to add
to with donated material. His archives comprises New Zealand and
overseas books, magazines, newsletters, original UFO reports,
photographs, audio and video recordings, and newspaper
cuttings.This archive also contains the administration records
of CSI. Additional material has been received from Hinfelaar's
New Zealand Scientific Space Research, the Auckland UFO Research
Association, and others. Bott would welcome receipt of any
similar material for inclusion into the archive.

Wellington based UFO researcher Peter Hassall has also
established a much smaller UFO archive. He is a keen recipient
of both current and historical UFO material for research
purposes. Bott and Hassall exchange any duplicate copies.

````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````


Current UFO Functionaries in New Zealand.
*****************************************

Mutual UFO Network (New Zealand)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
and the New Zealand UFO Archives Project.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Murray Bott,
P.O. Box 27117,
Mt. Roskill, Auckland.
Phone (09) 6345285 (evenings after 7pm)
Email: murrayb@win.co.nz

Unusual Data Investigation Service
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peter Hassall,
P.O. Box 27432,
Marion St., Wellington.
Email : rowlf@paradise.net.nz


Tauranga UFO Investigation Group
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Harvey Cooke,
44 Townhead Crescent,
Cambridge Heights,
Tauranga
Email contact:- cookie.bear@zip.co.nz
Phone (07) 577-6011



--
Email : murrayb@win.co.nz
Voice : 64-9-6345285
Snail : PO Box 27117, Mt Roskill, Auckland 1030, New Zealand






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              Re: Mysterious Ocean Lights & Underwater Aliens -

From: Jean Meiners <legalco2002@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 18:55:39 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 08:57:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Mysterious Ocean Lights & Underwater Aliens -



 >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 17:33:17 +0200
 >Subject: Mysterious Ocean Lights & Underwater Aliens

 >Source: Pravda.RU

 >http://english.pravda.ru/main/2002/10/11/38027.html

 >Stig

 >***

 >2002.10.11/14:10

 >Mysterious Ocean Lights and Underwater Aliens

 >Strange, unexplained phenomena observed

 >**


In the 50's there were reports of unexplained lights under the
Great Lakes. Again, in the 50's a "UFO" was seen to crash-land
into the Great Lakes and a light was tracked for quite sometime.

No debris was ever found.

Also, in the 50's, again in the 70's I believe, strange lights
were sighted off the coast of Florida. They could not be
determined to be a submarine or a downed plane... after a short
period of time the lights were observed to move eastward from
land toward the open sea.

I wish I could remember where I read about this. I do know it
was a published article.

Jean








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               NASA Contractor To Complete Anti-Gravity Device

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 04:28:56 +0200
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 08:59:27 -0400
Subject: NASA Contractor To Complete Anti-Gravity Device


Source: Business 2.0

http://www.business2.com/articles/mag/0,1640,43531,FF.html

Go to the site for relevant links!

Stig

***

October 12, 2002

NEXT BIG THING

Did Newton Get It Wrong?

Evgeny Podkletnov's antigravity technology may sound far-
fetched, but it's attracting serious interest from the likes of
NASA and Boeing.

By Matthew Maier, October 2002 Issue

**

Russian scientist Evgeny Podkletnov is challenging one of the
most sacred tenets of physics -- the law of gravity. Podkletnov
claims that when objects are placed above a high-temperature,
superconducting ceramic disk rotating within an electromagnetic
field, the objects lose as much as 2 percent of their original
weight. He calls the effect "gravity shielding," and when word
of his research reached the public in 1996, a brief media circus
ensued. Many in the physics community dismissed his effort as
wishful thinking.

Now, however, several mainstream organizations -- including
Boeing (BA), NASA, and British aerospace giant BAE Systems
(BAESY) -- are lending fresh credibility to Podkletnov's claims.
Phantom Works, Boeing's top-secret R&D arm, recently disclosed
that it is monitoring his research. "We've seen his work, and
we'd like to see it developed further," says Boeing spokesman
Dave Phillips. Meanwhile, NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center
has awarded a $600,000 contract to Ohio- based Superconductive
Components in an attempt to build its own version of
Podkletnov's gravity-shielding device -- the effort should be
complete later this year.

So far, other scientists have been unable to duplicate
Podkletnov's results. But the appeal of such a device remains
irresistible. Applications may include space transportation (for
rocketless propulsion), missile defense (to alter the trajectory
of incoming threats), or even gravity-beam weapons (pulverizing
objects by subjecting them to massive G forces). "Clearly, we
don't know all there is to know about gravity," says NASA
project manager Ron Koczor. "But I have a gut sense the
shielding effect could be real." If so, gravity could one day
become an even greater force to be reckoned with.

**

=A92002 Business 2.0 Media Inc. All rights reserved. Reproduction
in whole or in part without permission is prohibited.








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                   Miniature Flying Saucer With Handlebars

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 04:59:20 +0200
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 09:02:39 -0400
Subject: Miniature Flying Saucer With Handlebars


Some of you my may remember my post of June 28, 'AirBoard' The
Sidewalk UFO - see:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/jun/m28-009.shtml

Well, here's Hammacher Schlemmer's version

http://www.business2.com/gallery/0,2182,10|158,00.html


Stig

***

Levitating Hover Scooter

**

Hailed by the The New York Times as a "...miniature flying
saucer with handlebars," the hover scooter provides an
unprecedented experience in personal transportation, levitating
inches above the ground and speeding a single rider across land
on a cushion of air.

Gentle lift from an engine-powered fan elevates the scooter off
the ground, and a stream of air exiting a vent in the back
provides light forward thrust.

Learning to ride the scooter takes less than five minutes, and
no previous skateboarding, surfing, snowboarding, or other
experience is required.

Easy and intuitive to control, the rider simply leans left or
right to perform smooth turns.

A throttle and clutch on the handlebar allow precise control of
engine power.

To increase acce leration, the rider leans back slightly while
gripping the handlebar, and the friction drive wheel at the
underside rear of the scooter makes contact with the ground,
increasing speed up to a maximum of approximately 15 mph.

The scooter deftly glides over level, solid ground such as
concrete, asphalt, or well- groomed grass free of debris, sand,
stones, and other obstacles.

It can even travel up minor inclines.

Stopping is as easy as releasing the throttle and clutch
controls and allowing the hovering scooter to gently coast to a
halt over a distance of approximately twenty feet.

For added safety, an engine kill switch wristband similar to
those on water-jet vehicles is worn by the rider during
operation.

The hover scooter is powered by a four-stroke internal
combustion engine that operates for approximately one hour on a
full tank of unleaded gasoline.

The large scooter deck provides ample standing space, and two
non- skid foot pads ensure confident foot-placement.

Head and tail lights come on at the flick of a switch. Basic
assembly requires Phillips and flathead screwdrivers (not
included) to attach handlebar and install the 12-volt battery
(included).

Complete instructions and a training video are provided.

For single riders ages 16 and up, to a maximum of 220 lbs., with
adult supervision.

Use of protective helmet, knee and elbow pads, and eye
protection recommended (not included).

Allow 8- 10 weeks for delivery.

Please specify Red, Blue, Green, or Yellow. 48" H (with handle
bar) x 75"

Diameter. Deck is 12" H. (330 lbs.)

For use on private property.

Maintain safe distance from spectators at all times during
operation.

Not for use on public streets, sidewalks, and thoroughfares.

Item 10321 ........................ $14,999.95

**

Copyright =A9 2002 Hammacher Schlemmer & Company, Inc. All rights
reserved.








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                        NZ Herald On 50th Anniversary

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 05:51:42 +0200
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 09:04:56 -0400
Subject: NZ Herald On 50th Anniversary


Source: The New Zealand Herald

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm?storyID=2998771&thesection=news&thesu
bsection=general

Stig

***

Saturday October 12, 2002

Opening up the Kiwi X-files

12.10.2002 - By REBECCA WALSH

**

When Harvey Cooke first started talking about UFOs to work
colleagues, he was told to stop it or he could be out of a job.

He didn't stop - instead, he waited to be asked, and the
questions came.

"There are always some people who aren't going to believe
anything. They can't accept the story as it comes. If you
examine all the silly suggestions made that UFOs (unidentified
flying objects) don't exist, not one of them has an atom of fact
in them," the 84- year-old told the Herald.

Mr Cooke, who is chairman of the Tauranga UFO Investigation
Group, is among those who will mark the 50th anniversary of UFO
research in New Zealand this weekend.

Boasting a membership of 30, the Tauranga group is one of the
oldest in the country. It meets monthly to discuss the latest
UFO news from around the world.

"People say, 'What do I need to become a member?' I say the only
thing you need is an open mind. If you haven't got it, don't
come."

The Tauranga man, who has made a couple of UFO sightings but
"not good ones", acknowledges membership is falling, with many
members now in their 80s. Still, he believes people are less
sceptical than they used to be.

Flying saucers first sparked the interest of a group of New
Zealanders in October 1952 and the research group Civilian
Saucer Investigations was formed. At the helm was RNZAF Sergeant
Harold Fulton.

The group made contact with their counterparts overseas,
including Californian George Adamski, whose book Flying Saucers
Have Landed told of meetings with Venusians and other space
people with names like Orthon.

More groups were set up around the country, and while some
accepted Adamski's approach, others found it harder to swallow.

Nearly half a century later, Auckland man Murray Bott started
compiling an archive of New Zealand research into UFOs, from the
"close encounter" with a spacecraft reported by a Blenheim woman
in 1959, to the 1978 case where balls of light were filmed near
Kaikoura.

Mr Bott, NZ's representative on American-based Mutual UFO
Network, said his views on UFOs had evolved over the past 30
years.

He took a scientific approach and estimated 90 per cent of
reported UFO sightings turned out to be natural or manmade
objects, such as aircraft.

"I sift through the reports and try to look at alternative
explanations," he said. "If you asked, what do I believe the odd
10 per cent to be, I'm open to the possibility."

**

Copyright 2002, NZ Herald








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                            FOTOCAT Project News

From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos@yahoo.es>
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 12:04:01 +0200 (CEST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 09:23:06 -0400
Subject: FOTOCAT Project News


FOTOCAT (acronym in Spanish for Catalog of Photographs) is an
in-progress project from the Anomaly Foundation

http:/www.anomalia.org

a not-for-profit organization set up in Spain in 1997 mainly to
fund UFO research, publish journals and books, and preserve from
extintion endangered UFO records.

Started initially with the objective to organize our 35-year
photographic UFO/IFO archives, when it acquired significant
proportions it naturally developed into a worldwide catalog with
the purpose to integrate all UFO reports published in the
mainstream literature where photography, film or video had been
taken.

FOTOCAT has now 2,500 entries and it is rapidly expanding. We
plan to release it through the Foundation=B4s web site for public
knowledge and usage when its size its considered to be
acceptably representative of the "UFO photograph phenomenon" at
world scale. At this stage, there are still some regional or
yearly weaknesses.

LATE NEWS!
FOTOCAT accepts and looks for material donations in order to
become a comprehensive tally of this specific segment of UFO
phenomenology. One of our efforts centers in the acquisition of
photographic records from various sources. It is with
satisfaction that we can report here that a collection of 500
slides from the well-known ufologist from Argentina, Mr
Guillermo Roncoroni (unfortunately deceased) were donated to the
Anomaly Foundation thanks to the good services of his
Argentinian colleagues and noted researchers Mr Alejandro
Agostinelli and Mr Roberto E Banchs. This set splendidly
documents such UFO cases in Latinamerica.

Very recently, Mr Philip Klass has generously donated his
personal collection of 300 slides to our Project, and we have to
thank the assistance provided by Mr Milton Hourcade. In this set
we may find extraordinary photographic coverage of outstanding
UFO events like Delphos, South Hill, or Socorro, as well as many
other excellent documents.

Finally, a noted figure in the UFO field in the United States,
who has collected an impressive amount of photographic material,
has decided to include the Anomaly Foundation in his Last Will
as future beneficiary of his UFO photo assets.

We request researchers from all corners of the world to submit
us copy of any list of UFO/IFO photocases produced or to
exchange regional catalogs with us. We will gladly submit what
we have for a given country for correction and improvement.


Thanks for your time and best regards,

Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos
Research Director, Anomaly Foundation
Apartado de Correos 12140
46080 Valencia
Spain








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                   Re: Bruni's Bentwaters Bunker? - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 06:04:05 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 09:25:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Bruni's Bentwaters Bunker? - Hatch


 >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 17:06:08 EDT
 >Subject: Re: Bruni's Bentwaters Bunker?

 >>From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 06:40:15 +0200
 >>Subject: Bruni's Bentwaters Bunker?

 >>Source: East Anglian Daily Times

 >>http://www.eadt.co.uk/content/news/NewsStory.asp?Brand=[snip -LH]

 >>Stig

 >>The public remain fascinated by stories that there could be an
 >>underground bunker at Bentwaters. Georgina Bruni, an author and
 >>researcher on the Rendlesham UFO incident near Woodbridge
 >>Airfield, had access to the command post during her
 >>investigations.

<snip>

 >However the possibility exists that there is in fact some kind
 >of underground facility.

<snip>

 >In years gone by at an abandoned facility where it was apparent
 >no entrances to anything undergound, yet workman doing some kind
 >of plumbing or electrical work had to smash through part of a
 >wall and low and behold they found a doorway and a flight of
 >stairs.  When the facility had been abandoned the entrance had
 >been covered up/concealed so from all outward appearences there
 >was no entrances.

 >Point being is that until a sufficent site inspection is done,
 >and perhaps running down all the old construction engineering
 >drawings and blueprints we may never know.

 >Cheers,
 >Robert

- - -

Hello Stig and Robert:

I know for a fact that my secretive next door neighbor has
underground facilities. Its called a "basement".  The previous
owner asked to borrow a water pump once, after a particularly
wet rainy season.

There is reason to believe these facilities are electrically
lit, as I saw an eerie glow from some suspicious narrow windows
once or twice.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch








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              Re: Air Traffic Staff See 'Ghost Planes' - Clarke

From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 10:21:16 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 09:20:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Air Traffic Staff See 'Ghost Planes' - Clarke


 >From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 14:10:18 +0100
 >Subject: Re: Air Traffic Staff See 'Ghost Planes' - Jones, Sean

 >>From: David  Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 17:45:44 +0100
 >>Subject: Air Traffic Staff See 'Ghost Planes'

 >BBC News online, 10 October 2002

 >http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2316085.stm

Sean Jones wrote:

 >But David, why have you dropped your standards to _include_ this
 >as a _UFO_ article? In my previous experiences with you and your
 >work, you would have descended like a ton of bricks upon the
 >head of a believer if one had posted this as _potential_
 >explanation for _possible_ UFO's.

What a strange statement.

I simply re-posted the BBC article because I thought it was
interesting, and that it might also be of interest to Updates
readers.

Strange blips appearing on radar screens are, by definition
UFOs, until identified otherwise, are they not?


Best,

Dave Clarke

www.flyingsaucery.com







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                        Re: Crisis At CUFOS - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 09:15:01 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 09:48:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Crisis At CUFOS - Kaeser


 >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: Crisis At CUFOS
 >Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 15:11:58 -0700

<snip>

 >Just brainstorming here, but...

 >Would there be any wisdom in suspending operations until such
 >time as interest begins to increase again? Perhaps just
 >allocating a "keep-alive" budget, to maintain the name, pay for
 >storing the files, etc.

 >I know this will sound blasphemous, but...for the time being,
 >there doesn't seem to be anything to study. Sightings are up,
 >according to NUFORC, but _interesting_ sightings are way down.
 >Even here on the Internet, we seem to be going over the same old
 >ground, Roswell, Trindade Island, Kenneth Arnold... this stuff
 >has been beaten to death.

 >The IUR articles mentioned earlier reflect the same situation -
 >same old cases, no definitive answers.

 >Maybe it's time to put the IUR to bed for a while until
 >something comes along that justifies the expense and the efforts
 >of our best minds.

 >And mind you, it will.

 >==JJS==

[the following is merely my opinion]

The field has lost its focus and its needs to re-think its
purpose and scope.

The three major research organizations in the US (CUFOS, MUFON
and the Fund) have not changed their mode of operation since
they were created. While interest in this subject has remained
strong among the general public as seen by the number of
Internet sites that have evolved, all three organizations have
had a difficult time in attracting individuals that have the
same philosophy as their founding members. We're discussing the
problems of CUFOS right now, but I think you'll find that MUFON
has had a difficult time maintaining a membership level that can
support a monthly MUFON Journal (my opinion based on discussions
with others in the field) and donations to the Fund seem to have
leveled off.

Many of us are very interested in the scientific pursuit of this
mystery, but the general public often focuses on other goals and
the three organizations have found themselves in a quandary. If
they strive to attract new membership, they lose that scientific
focus (or at least allow it to become skewed), and the
alternative is to watch them fade from importance for most
newcomers to the genre.

Perhaps a core group that can focus is an appropriate avenue to
follow, allowing the general public and media to take their
beliefs and opinions where they will. Of course, this core
group would also be quite controversial for those who are not a
part of it, and competition would likely develop to determine
who is really the "King of the Hill".

This is a problem that has been developing for years and it
won't be an easy one to resolve, and for many the resolution
will probably even more difficult to accept.

The common denominator among the three groups is the UFO
Coalition. Perhaps that is where efforts should take place to
re-invigorate this quest to identify what we commonly call UFOs.

Then again, I'm just another voice in the wind.

Steve








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                  Acidic Clouds Of Venus Could Harbour Life

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 06:33:19 +0200
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 09:18:10 -0400
Subject: Acidic Clouds Of Venus Could Harbour Life


Source: New Scientist,

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=3Dns99992843

Stig

***

Acidic clouds of Venus could harbour life

10:15 26 September 02

Stuart Clark

**

The acidic clouds of Venus could in fact be hiding life.
Unlikely as it sounds, the presence of microbes could neatly
explain several mysterious observations of the planet's
atmosphere.

Venus is usually written off as a potential haven for life
because of its hellishly hot and acidic surface. But conditions
in the atmosphere at an altitude of around 50 kilometres are
relatively hospitable: the temperature is about 70 =B0C, with a
pressure of about one atmosphere.

Although the clouds are very acidic, this region also has the
highest concentration of water droplets in the Venusian
atmosphere. "From an astrobiology point of view, Venus is not
hopeless," says Dirk Schulze-Makuch from the University of
Texas at El Paso.

To look for possible signs of life, Schulze-Makuch and his
colleague Louis Irwin looked at existing data on Venus from the
Russian Venera space missions and the US Pioneer Venus and
Magellan probes. They noticed some peculiar things about the
chemical composition of Venus's atmosphere.

Solar radiation and lightning should produce large quantities of
carbon monoxide in the planet's atmosphere, but instead it is
scarce, as if something is removing it. They also found hydrogen
sulphide and sulphur dioxide. These two gases react with each
other, and so are never normally found together unless something
is producing them.


Unambiguous indicator

Even more mysterious is the presence of carbonyl sulphide. This
gas is so difficult to produce inorganically that it is
sometimes considered an unambiguous indicator of biological
activity.

"There may be non-biological ways to produce the hydrogen
sulphide or carbonyl sulphide that we do not know about, but
both reactions need catalysts to proceed efficiently," says
Schulze-Makuch. "On Earth, the most efficient catalysts are
microbes."

He thinks that bugs living in the Venusian clouds could be
combining sulphur dioxide with carbon monoxide and possibly
hydrogen to produce either hydrogen sulphide or carbonyl
sulphide in a metabolism similar to that of some early Earth
bugs. He suggests the bugs could be using ultraviolet light from
the Sun as an energy source.

If they are absorbing UV, that would explain the presence of
mysterious dark patches on ultraviolet images of the planet. He
presented his theory at the Second European Workshop on
Astrobiology in Graz, Austria, last week.


Venus Express

Not everyone is convinced. "I am reluctant to believe this
result," says Andre Brack from the Centre for Molecular
Biophysics in Orl=E9ans, France. "For life, you need a volume of
water, not just tiny droplets."

But Schulze-Makuch points out that there is chemical evidence
that Venus was once cooler and had oceans. "Life could have
started there and retreated to stable niches once the runaway
greenhouse effect began," he says.

But we may have to wait several years for any firm answers. The
European Space Agency's Venus Express mission, which will
investigate the planet's atmosphere, is due for launch in 2005.

Meanwhile the Swedish Space Agency is looking for international
partners to develop their idea for a mission to return a sample
of the atmosphere from Venus around 2010.

10:15 26 September 02

**

=A9 Copyright Reed Business Information Ltd.








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                   Binary System Increases Probability Of

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 07:37:02 +0200
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 09:19:31 -0400
Subject: Binary System Increases Probability Of


Source: Dallas Morning News via The Seattle Times,

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/134551215_orbit09.html

Stig

***

Wednesday, October 09, 2002, 12:00 a.m. Pacific

Permission to reprint or copy this article/photo must be
obtained from The Seattle Times. Call 206-464-3113 or e-mail
resale@seattletimes.com with your request.

**

Orbiting planet discovered between neighboring stars

By Alexandra Witze
Dallas Morning News

**

DALLAS =97 University of Texas astronomers have confirmed that a
planet orbits one of a pair of stars 45 light-years (260
trillion miles) away. It is the first discovery of a planet in a
binary star system where the two stars so closely orbit each
other.

Such binary systems are common in the galaxy.

"When you look at the stars in the sky, every other one of them
is a double star or multiple star," Canadian astronomer Gordon
Walker said.

Planets also have been found in binary star systems, but in
those cases the two stars were separated by a distance at least
100 times greater than in this one.

If a planet can form in a close binary system, without getting
tossed out of orbit by the secondary star, then planets might be
more common in the universe than previously believed, Walker
said.

William Cochran of the University of Texas-Austin, who led the
research team, was to describe the planet today in Birmingham,
Ala., at a meeting of the Division for Planetary Sciences of the
American Astronomical Society. Team member Artie Hatzes
announced the find last month at a meeting in Germany.

The star is Gamma Cephei, the third-brightest star in the
constellation Cepheus the King. Gamma Cephei has a dim companion
star that orbits from 1 billion to 3 billion miles away; at
most, that places the two stars as far apart as the sun and
Neptune.

The newfound planet orbits Gamma Cephei at an average distance
of 200 million miles, or about twice the distance between the
sun and the Earth. The planet is nearly twice as massive as
Jupiter and takes about 2-1/2 years to go around its star.

Astronomers don't know whether the planet might have formed
around Gamma Cephei, or whether it might have been captured from
elsewhere in space. But its near-circular orbit suggests that it
may have formed in place, Walker said.

And that could mean Gamma Cephei's planet, or any moons it may
have, would be good places to search for extraterrestrial life.
It could be at the right distance for water =97 considered a
prerequisite for life =97 to exist without boiling away or
freezing.

**

Copyright =A9 2002 The Seattle Times Company







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              Re: Air Traffic Staff See 'Ghost Planes' - Jones

From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 16:39:21 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 17:24:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Air Traffic Staff See 'Ghost Planes' - Jones


 >From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 10:21:16 +0100
 >Subject: Re: Air Traffic Staff See 'Ghost Planes'

Good Afternoon David, Listers

 >Sean Jones wrote:

 >>But David, why have you dropped your standards to _include_ this
 >>as a _UFO_ article? In my previous experiences with you and your
 >>work, you would have descended like a ton of bricks upon the
 >>head of a believer if one had posted this as _potential_
 >>explanation for _possible_ UFO's.

 >What a strange statement.

True, I got a little confused while typing. What I meant to say
was: In my previous experience you would have used something
like to descend like a ton of bricks upon the head of a believer
using something like this as a _potential_ explanation.

 >I simply re-posted the BBC article because I thought it was
 >interesting, and that it might also be of interest to Updates
 >readers.

Could I ask why? I can't remember seeing other articles in which
you have posted that did not include you in the article. Please
feel free to refresh my memory.

 >Strange blips appearing on radar screens are, by definition
 >UFOs, until identified otherwise, are they not?

Not per se, no.

Knowing a little about Radar, I know that blips turn up o a
regular basis. Is it also know that plenty of recorded sightings
could not be confirmed by radar? (Yes I know there have been
plenty of sighting _with_ radar back up as well, but skeptics
have never bothered letting a tiny detail like evidence get in
their way have they.)

In my not so humble opinion, the reason you posted this article
was so that in some future argument over a sighting, you could
point out that radar blips do occur, and you have previously
quoted a source, ergo the sighting can be explained!

Please tell me otherwise.

 >Best,

 >Dave Clarke


Yours most cordially

Sean








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              Re: Jacques Vallee Discusses UFO Control System -

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 09:09:40 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 17:27:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Jacques Vallee Discusses UFO Control System -


 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >To: <UFOupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 19:09:13 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Jacques Vallee Discusses UFO Control System

 >>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 08:31:27 -0700
 >>Subject: Re: Jacques Vallee Discusses UFO Control System

 >>>From: Colm Kelleher - NIDS <nids@anv.net>
 >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 17:01:57 -0700
 >>>Subject: Jacques Vallee Discusses UFO Control System

 >>>Clark: But isn't that rather dangerous - in the sense that
 >>>there's a real risk the investigator, even if he is emotionally
 >>>stable and intellectually sophisticated, might be overwhelmed by
 >>>the experiences involved?

 >>>Vallee: Yes, there are dangers. Witness what happened to Morris
 >>>Jessup or to Jim McDonald.

 >>Does someone know what particular "experience" Jim McDonald went
 >>through, which Vallee may have had in mind here?

 >Jim,

 >I conducted this interview fully 25 years ago. Were I to do it
 >today, I would have challenged this melodramatic assertion,
 >which is based on nothing, as far as I can see, beyond
 >uninformed speculation and the assumption (which in my
 >observation Vallee is not alone in making) that ufologists don't
 >have personal lives wholly apart from their UFO pursuits

 >What Jessup and McDonald had in common, besides broken
 >marriages, was a susceptibility (not unrelated to those frayed
 >relationships) to deep depression. To every available
 >appearance, depression led to their respective suicides, not
 >sinister conspiracies or paranormal harassment.

Thanks, Jerry. I suspected as much, as I hadn't heard that
McDonald had even one UFO sighting of his own, let alone an
experience. O

ne might speculate, though, that McDonald's periods of
depression were associated with the altered view of reality he
had to try to face up to after learning the UFO phenomenon was
for real, and the inability to convince many colleagues of its
reality. I suspect this also contributed to his suicide, though
a colleagues of his in his department once told me that his
suicide wasn't associated at all with the UFO phenomenon.


Jim Deardorff








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                      Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Young

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 12:41:58 EDT
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 17:29:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Young


 >From: Kelly Peterborough <kellymcg@attcanada.ca>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 18:40:07 -0400
 >Subject: Flight-Paths Of UFOs

<snip>

 >I just read on another List that it has been 'verified' (no sources
 >cited) that the 'majority' (no percentage given) of UFOs flight-paths
 >take a north to south or south to north direction.

 >My dear Larry H., is this something you have kept track of in
 >your database? Anybody else have any comments? And if the above
 >is true, any speculation as to why?


Hi, Kelly:

This statement could be true of artificial satellites bright
enough to be seen visually, or if these represented a
significantly high enough percentage of the "UFOs" observed.
Most easily seen satellites, and their launch vehicles are in
polar orbits because they seek to observe the entire Earth.

Clear skies,

Bob Young








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                        Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Gutierez

From: Gregory Gutierez <greguti@free.fr>
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 19:11:53 +0200
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 17:31:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Gutierez


 >From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 18:20:17 +0200
 >Subject: Re: Symbols [UMMO]

 >Another interesting text was written by Scott Corrales and
 >was published in the "Ohio UFO Notebook" Number 22, Year
 >2001. The title: "People are strange: Unusual cults
 >examined" A good part of it is devoted to another hoax of
 >Jordan Pena, called the "Pirophos" cult. See the paragraph:
 >"Pirophos, UMMO's Little Brother"
 >It was a sort of psycho-social experiment imagined by Pena
 >to take the measure of human credibility.
 >Pena succedeed in convincing a number of people of the
 >existence of a "Great God Pirophos", by producing before
 >them a strange blue light in a dark room.

Hello Gildas, everyone,

Hmm... Here is what Darnaude himself says about this Pirophos
story (quick translation by me):

"I am reading the 51 pages of interview of Jordan. The part
about the Pirophos religious sect is absolut forgery, one more
invention among lots of other by Jose Luis.

Such a sect never existed, and we never gathered in La Elipa
suburb, excepted in the feverish imagination of Pena, for the
main reason that in these times every meeting was quickly
exposed to police by neighboorhood."

This is #4.366 in the Ummocat file available on the website by
Ignacio Darnaude.
http://ignaciodarnaude.galeon.com/

Does anyone have other source(s) about this?

 >The same with Ummo: some people still "want to believe"!

<humour on>

Hey Gildas, do you remember the title of the book by Karl Pflock
about Roswell?

<humour off>

 >In his chapter 3, "Ummo and Ufology", Pollion contends that we
 >still don't know with certainty if we deal with material
 >phenomena, or only optical, or "parapsychological, or unkwown
 >psychological actions in the head of witnesses." (p 101) He
 >dismisses even classic cases such as Trans-en-Provence and
 >"L'Amarante" in France (thoroughly studied, and confirmed by the
 >official GEPAN in the 80's).

I think there is a mistake here, about what says Pollion on the
cases for Trans-en-Provence and "L'amarante". You reduce it to
blind critics on ufology.

I understand quite differently his sentence p.101 of his book:
contrary to what you say, he takes the 2 cases as examples of
what ufology should be: "...convincing material evidence as in
the two french cases of l'Amarante and Trans-en-Provence".
He doesn't dismiss these cases, he takes them as examples of a
good (but very rare) scientific work!

 >Pollion explains that he got involved in ufology by reading the
 >book of Jean-Pierre Petit about Ummo, After that he spent all
 >his free time studying Ummo, and it is clear that he has studied
 >little else than Ummo, regarding Ufos.

I didn't understand it in the book neither.

In the foreword, Pollion explains that he begun to read about
ufos as soon as 1954, when the big french wave occured. Further
he notices that he read "a little more than 10 books" about ufos
before reading his first book about UMMO by Jean-Pierre Petit in
1995 (10 books in 40 years is not very much, I agree, but
Pollion didn't start reading on the subject with Jean-Pierre
Petit books!).

Regards,

Gregory Gutierez
Paris, France
http://www.liste-aleph.org
French mailing list for fortean weirdos








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              Jimmy Carter The Nobel Prize & Extraterrestrials

From: Grant Cameron <presidentialufo@presidency.com>
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 15:08:32 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 17:54:35 -0400
Subject: Jimmy Carter The Nobel Prize & Extraterrestrials



Jimmy Carter, the Nobel Prize, and Extraterrestrials
Grant Cameron
www.presidentialufo.com

The most recent winner of the Nobel Peace Prize, former
President Jimmy Carter, has long been interested in the peaceful
co-existence of humans on this planet. If historic records are
any indication, however, it appears that the former President
has long held a similar interest in peaceful relations with
extraterrestrials who might be visiting this planet, since his
sighting of a strange unidentified object in Leary, Georgia in
1969.

Carter has always been open to talking about the 1969 UFO
sighting, which he described as a "very remarkable sight," and
"the darndest thing I have ever seen." Carter has talked about
it in many question and answer sessions following speeches, or
on open-line talk show promoting the many books he has written.

In a recently released audio tape of a 1976 reply to questions
put to him by National Enquirer reporter Jim McCandlish, Carter
described the now infamous 1969 sighting, and how if he became
President he would release all the UFO files to the United
States people. The transcript of that encounter is as follows.

Q: Governor, you once saw a UFO. If you were President would you
reopen inquiries into UFOs?

Carter: Well, no. What I would do is make information we have
about those sightings available to the public (three words
unclear). I have never tried to identify what I saw. You know,
it was a light in the western sky that was very unique. I had
never seen it before. There were about 20 of us who saw it. None
of us could figure out what it was. I don't think it was
anything solid. It was just like a light. It was a curious
aberation, so I don't make fun of people who say they've see
unidentified objects in the sky.

Q: The United States used to have a body that investigated UFOs,
but that's been discontinued. Would you reopen it?

Carter: I don't know yet.

Presidential candidate Carter also made a similar promise in
Appleton, Wisconsin on the morning of March 31, 1976, during a
question and answer session. Carter was asked by Thomas Heiman,
Associate Director of the UFO Education Center in Appleton
Wisconsin whether he would as President, "air what's "behind-
closed-doors" today in regards to UFOs?"

Carter replied, "Yes, I would make these kinds of data available
to the public, as President, to help resolve the mystery about
it."

"On a public basis?" asked Heiman. "Yes," replied Carter, "on a
public basis."

Once Jimmy Carter became President, however, records at the
Carter library show that the Carter White House did everything
in its power to avoid the Wisconsin group even though Carter had
promised " a meeting could be arranged sometime after the
election" when he could meet with the group and review the UFO
material they had.

The McCandlish and Wisconsin encounters illustrate the very few
times Jimmy Carter ever talked about UFOs in relation to the
White House. When asked about presidential knowledge and
involvement in the UFO mystery, Carter has almost always
sidetracked the issue to talk about the 1969 UFO sighting.

An example of this reluctance to discuss his presidential role
can be found in the most recent encounter between Jimmy Carter
and the UFO question, which occurred last year. Documentary
producers Tim Coleman and James Fox approached the ex-president
about UFOs while he was doing a book signing. The men planned to
use the segment in their soon to be released UFO documentary
called 'Out of the Blue'.

When asked about his UFO sighting Carter was very forthright
quickly saying that it was interesting and mysterious. However,
when he was asked the second question about whether or not he
did look into the UFO issue during his presidency, Carter looked
up and noticed the camera about to record his answer. With a
look of a trapped animal Carter simply replied, "Yes, but
there's a lot of different answers and nobody knows...has proof
of things."

This reluctance to discuss the government's role could be partly
due to wake-up call that the President-elect Carter got while
being briefed by then CIA Director George Bush. According to
prominent civil rights attorney Danny Sheehan, Bush made Jimmy
Carter aware of how UFOs would be treated once he became
President.

Sheehan stated that he had been told the story by Marcia Smith,
then Director of the Science and Technology Division of the
Library of Congress' Congressional Research Service. In 1977,
shortly after Carter entered the White House, she had been asked
to do two studies for the Chairman of the Science & Technology
Committee of the House of Representatives. The reports would
then find their way to the White House.

Sheehan, then General Counsel to the United States Jesuit
National Headquarters - National Office of Social Ministry in
Washington, was invited to participate in the two studies, which
he described as a "highly classified major evaluation of the UFO
phenomena, and extraterrestrial intelligence."

According to what Marcia Smith told Sheehan in 1977, President-
elect Carter had asked Bush for the material on UFOs during his
November 1976 intelligence briefing provided by the CIA. "I want
to have the information that we have on UFOs and
extraterrestrial intelligence." Carter had asked.  "I want to
know about this as President."

George Bush, according to Marcia Smith, said, "No . . . that he
wasn't going to give this to him . . . that this was information
that existed on a need to know basis only. Simple curiosity on
the part of the President wasn't adequate."

"If he was going to do this he would have to follow a different
procedure," recalled Sheehan, "that was going to involve all the
different branches of government in authorizing this
information, because they were afraid that President Carter was
going to somehow publicly reveal this. Bush told him that he was
going have to go to the Science and Technology Committee of the
House of Representatives, in the legislative branch, and have
them ask the Congressional Research Service to issue a request
to have certain documents declassified so that this process
could go on."

President Carter followed the instructions given to him by Bush,
and Marcia Smith did produce two reports, which have never been
made public. One was on UFOs, and one was on extra terrestrial
intelligence. Sheehan stated that in one of the reports he
reviewed it was concluded,  "There are from two to six highly
intelligent, highly technological developed civilizations in our
own galaxy over and above our ours." Sheehan added that the
report stated that the investigation was "unable to discount"
that one of these vehicles was not from one of these two to six
civilizations.

Carter went on to request a number of other UFO inquiries and
studies in his first months as President. These included a study
known as the "Carter Extraterrestrial Communication Study"
contracted to the Center for the Study of Social Policy at the
Stanford Research Institute. The initial contact within the
Carter White House for the proposal was Stewart Eisenstatt, with
the Domestic Policy Staff. The Pentagon reportedly killed it
three months later.

Efforts included the Carter transitional people contacting or
meeting with UFO researchers such as Robert Barrow, Jacques
Vallee, J. Allen Hynek, and Bill Pitts. Barrow, for example, was
contacted about participating in another undefined UFO study.
Barrow was not contacted again, so it is not known if this
particular study went forward.

Another study of UFOs that was done for President Carter in the
early days of the administration was known as the 'L.A. Study'.
It was put together for the President by a number of UFO
researchers in the Los Angeles area. The researchers have told
their side of the story, but no records of this study appear at
the Carter library.

Trusted Carter staff members made most of the approaches to the
various government agencies about UFOs. One such case was Press
Secretary Jody Powell who approached the FBI about their past
UFO efforts. The FBI files tell little of this request, probably
because it was done by phone. Authors Lawrence Fawcett and Barry
Greenwood reported, however, that once Powell made the inquiry,
the FBI Academy at Quantico, Virginia suddenly  "began
monitoring and collecting newspaper clippings that dealt with
the UFO subject... under the curious file reference of
TRANSPORTATION."

Dr. Press, President Carter's Science Advisor, made the UFO
contact to NASA. He wrote NASA administrator Dr. Robert Frosch,
asking for help with the UFO mail problem, (the Carter White
House was being inundated with UFO mail because of his campaign
promise to release the UFO files) but also suggesting it might
be time for another study of the UFO issue. Press suggested that
a panel of prominent scientists such as Carl Sagan might
  "conduct an investigation of the validity and significance of
UFO reports." NASA, aware of the probable public relations
problems involved with reopening the UFO can of worms, declined
Dr. Press's request for a new UFO investigation.

Although Carter's attempts to get a new study on UFOs failed, he
presided over what is sometimes known as the "golden years" of
government UFO disclosures. During the Carter administration
literally thousands of UFO documents were released through FOIAs
by various government entities such as the FBI, NSA, NASA,
State, Air Force, Navy, and Army. What Carter's role was in the
releases is unknown, but there has been nothing quite like it
since Carter left the White House.

Although President Carter made many attempts to get the answer
to the UFO mystery, as he promised during his presidential
campaign, most efforts failed. The Washington insiders, who
Carter had run his entire campaign against, cut him off from the
UFO answers which they controlled.

The military industrial complex, usually more in line with
Republican administrations, was upset at Carter for his
canceling of the B-1 bomber program, a $5 billion dollar cut in
defense spending, plans to shelve the neutron bomb, veto a
nuclear aircraft carrier, and his leak during the 1980
presidential campaign where he publicly told the public, and the
Russians, that secret work was taking place on a thing called
the Stealth fighter.

George Bush described the negative feeling also held towards
President Carter by the intelligence community. He had been the
first CIA Director in four administrations to be effectively
fired by the new Carter administration. Hundreds of CIA agents
followed him out onto the street once Carter entered the White
House.

In his autobiography, Bush described Carter's attacks on the CIA
as "frequent and vituperative." The hatred for the CIA,
according to Bush began even when he was briefing Carter on
intelligence secrets in 1976. Bush wrote, "Beneath his surface
cool, he (Carter) harbored a deep antipathy to the CIA." It is
then no wonder, that when it came to the deepest darkest secret
held by the government, that Carter found himself on the outside
looking in.

As Jimmy Carter receives his Nobel Peace Prize, it might be
important to note that other important Peace Prize winners have
also taken an interest in the extraterrestrial angle of world
peace. Former Prime Minister of Canada, Lester B. Pearson
actually brought up the extraterrestrial possibilities during
his acceptance speech for the Nobel Peace Prize in 1957.

"Perhaps there is a hopeful possibility here in the conquest of
outer space. Interplanetary activity may well give us planetary
peace. Once we discover Martian spaceships hovering over Earth's
air-space, we will all come together."

"How dare they threaten us like this!" we shall shout, as one,
at a really United Nations!"









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                           Boeing Frontiers Online

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 09:24:48 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 18:05:39 -0400
Subject: Boeing Frontiers Online



Hello, all

It has been a while and I am still having trouble with my
erstwhile server, but I couldn't resist the name of this
monster-Pelican. See:

http://www.boeing.com/news/frontiers/i_pw.html


GT McCoy







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                      Tough Earth Bug May Be From Mars

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 06:15:42 +0200
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 09:16:21 -0400
Subject: Tough Earth Bug May Be From Mars


Source: New Scientist

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=3Dns99992844

Go to the site for relevant links!

Stig

***

Tough Earth bug may be from Mars

19:00 25 September 02

Exclusive from New Scientist Print Edition

**

A hardy microbe that can withstand huge doses of radiation could
have evolved this ability on Mars.

That is the conclusion of Russian scientists who say it would
take far longer than life has existed here for the bug to evolve
that ability in Earth's clement conditions. They suggest the
harsher environment of Mars makes it a more likely birthplace.

The hardy bugs could have travelled to Earth on pieces of rock
that were blasted into space by an impacting asteroid and fell
to Earth as meteorites.

Deinococcus radiodurans is renowned for its resistance to
radiation - it can survive several thousand times the lethal
dose for humans. To investigate how the trait might have
evolved, Anatoli Pavlov and his colleagues from the Ioffe
Physico-Technical Institute in St Petersburg tried to induce it
in E. coli.


99.9 per cent deadly

They blasted the bugs with enough gamma rays to kill 99.9 per
cent of them, let the survivors recover, and then repeated the
process. During the first cycle just a hundredth of the lethal
human dose was enough to wipe out 99.9 per cent of the bacteria,
but after 44 cycles it took 50 times that initial level to kill
the same proportion.

However, the researchers calculate that it would take thousands
of such cycles before the E. coli were as hardy as Deinococcus.
And on Earth it would take between a million and a hundred
million years to accumulate each dose, during which time the
bugs would have to be dormant.

Since life originated on Earth about 3.8 billion years ago,
Pavlov does not believe that there has been enough time for this
resistance to evolve.


Dormant bugs

On Mars, however, the researchers calculate that dormant bugs
could receive the necessary dose in just a few hundred thousand
years, because radiation levels there are much higher.

What is more, they point out that the Red Planet wobbles on its
rotation axis, producing a regular cycle of climate swings that
would drive bacteria into dormancy for long enough to accumulate
such doses, before higher temperatures enabled the survivors to
recover and multiply. Pavlov reported the results last week at
the Second European Workshop on Astrobiology in Graz, Austria.

David Morrison of NASA's Astrobiology Institute is sceptical
that Deinococcus came from Mars, pointing out that its genome
looks similar to those of other Earthly bacteria. But he admits
that there's still no obvious explanation for the bug's
resistance to radiation.

"It is certainly a mystery how this trait has developed and why
it persists," he says.

Stuart Clark

**

=A9 Copyright Reed Business Information Ltd.








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                  Strieber's Memory Fails In Hale-Bopp Tale

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 00:31:56 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 00:31:56 -0400
Subject: Strieber's Memory Fails In Hale-Bopp Tale

http://rense.com/general30/stmem.htm


Strieber's Memory Conveniently
Fails Him In Hale-Bopp Tale
10-11-2

Text from Whitley Strieber's 'Journal'... an egregious corruption
of reality:

[See: http://www.unknowncountry.com/journal/ ]

"Then the Heaven's Gate tragedy struck. A group of UFO
enthusiasts committed suicide in a looney attempt to get to the
object as souls. Art was pilloried in the national media and
among the UFO community. Lost in the shuffle was the fact that
he and I had exposed the apparent hoax. Lost, also, in the
shuffle was the fact that the entire astronomical community,
worldwide, was lying about the object."

FACT: At the very height of the radio and internet hype and
promotion of the Hale-Bopp 'companion' ET spaceship con job, my
webmaster, James Neff, had been running the ONLY internet site
devoted to a skeptical inquiry of the Hale-Bopp 'companion'
story.

FACT: One evening during my live, coast-to-coast program, James
was alerted by his astronomer-contact, Oliver Hainaut, at the
University of Hawaii, that he had discovered the infamous Hale-
Bopp 'companion' photo - featured on Bell's and other sites -
  was in fact an existing image of the comet which had been
reversed...and had then shown up with the 'companion' object
appearing in it.

FACT: When James' email to me arrived, I was on the air
interviewing Michael Lindemann. I IMMEDIATELY requested of
Michael, on the air, to pause our discussion as I had breaking
news to read. I then read the information from the University of
Hawaii which destroyed the entire Hale-Bopp 'companion' ET
spaceship image hoax and began to quiet the worldwide fears -
  and in some cases deadly panic - it had caused. The hoaxed
picture...the 'smoking gun'...was a total fraud. Michael will
have no trouble verifying what occurred on the program and how
the Hale-Bopp 'companion' story came to its demise.

FACT: The exposing of the Hale-Bopp 'companion' photo hoax on my
program and on my website had an immediate worldwide impact.

FACT: Art Bell did not do a live radio show later that night --
  a statement was read that he had suddenly taken ill and a taped
program would be aired.

Strieber:

"Lost in the shuffle was the fact that he (Bell) and I had
exposed the apparent hoax."

James Neff exposed the hoax and I announced it on live, national
radio and put the two photos - the original genuine photo and
the hoaxed photo - on site as well.

Strieber:

"Lost, also, in the shuffle was the fact that the entire
astronomical community, worldwide, was lying about the object."

MANY in the 'astronomical community' were stridently dubious of
the Hale-Bopp 'companion' photo and story, and gravely-lamented
the hype being perpetrated by Courtney Brown and others on
national radio and the internet.

Mr. Strieber appears suffering either from conveniently poor
memory, had a couple of 'senior moments' or is no longer able to
discern the line between fact and fiction. In any case, I have
avoided responding to the well-known past public, personal
attacks on me, my program and my entire listening audience by
this well-known science fiction writer.

However, in this case, his efforts to claim credit for exposing
the Hale-Bopp fraud cannot pass without comment.

 From James Neff 10-7-2

Another quickly overshadowed element in this debacle is that
Streiber, then apparently closely-tied with Brown and Calabrese
at the FarSight Institute, stated on the Art Bell show that he
had seen the "film" taken by the clandestine "leading university
astronomer" and had even taken a print of the Hale-Bopp image to
a 'University-level astronomer' friend and asked his opinion.

The astronomer, whom Whitley never named, supposedly signed off
on the image as authentic and disturbing...and worthy of further
analysis. It was, however, subsequently discovered through a
phone call I placed directly to Oliver Hainaut of the University
of Hawaii's Astronomy Department, that FILM is rarely ever used
-- and further, that the Hale-Bopp 'companion' image in question
was his, Hainaut's, digital tiff image (part of a complex 3-
plate imaging process) flopped over and reduced to jpeg -- and
clearly tampered with to add a 'companion' object.

This was announced by Oliver Hainaut on the Jeff Rense Program
more than 48 hours in advance of the Streiber/Bell 'outting' of
Courtney Brown. So, the question remains, what, in fact, did
Strieber possess and what 'film' did he see?? There was no film.
There was no 'print' from film, either. There was only a stolen
tiff image, flopped, and reduced to jpeg. And if that is what he
took to the 'University level astronomy professor' it seems very
peculiar that such an educated man would have had the reaction
he allegedly had...when not a single other University level
astronomy professor agreed (and I consulted several).

They all said the same things: (1) "I'd have to see the original
high resolution image," and (2) the 'companion' image was likely
a star 'blooming' on the CCD chip, a common artifact of DIGITAL
processing, not film.

How did Strieber gain access to what did not even exist? And
does this explain his overt participation in the on-air
crucifixion of Courtney Brown? At the time, Prudence Calabrese
was Whitley Strieber's departing webmaster and was apparently
the go-between from Brown to Strieber on the "film".... which
did not exist. Once we revealed the image was a DIGITAL farce,
it seemed to many listeners Strieber and others did a lot of
excess protesting and padding of the conflict to muddy the
issue, and divert attention from their earlier claims and de
facto involvement in the hoax.

And let no one forget Whitley's dramatic call for Art's
listeners to attempt to communicate telepathically with the
inbound Hale-Bopp 'companion' object's alien occupants!

The attempt to withhold credit for the hoax exposure from us and
then bringing Oliver Hainaut onto the Bell program as an
'original contact' are matters of record. Strieber's revisionist
history doesn't work...many people's memories aren't that short.
This is all yet another example of why UFOlogy remains in
trouble.

-----







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                      Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 18:03:12 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 17:33:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Hatch


 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 12:41:58 EDT
 >Subject: Flight-Paths Of UFOs

 >>From: Kelly Peterborough <kellymcg@attcanada.ca>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 18:40:07 -0400
 >>Subject: Flight-Paths Of UFOs

 ><snip>

 >>I just read on another List that it has been 'verified' (no sources
 >>cited) that the 'majority' (no percentage given) of UFOs flight-paths
 >>take a north to south or south to north direction.

 >>My dear Larry H., is this something you have kept track of in
 >>your database? Anybody else have any comments? And if the above
 >>is true, any speculation as to why?

 >Hi, Kelly:

 >This statement could be true of artificial satellites bright
 >enough to be seen visually, or if these represented a
 >significantly high enough percentage of the "UFOs" observed.
 >Most easily seen satellites, and their launch vehicles are in
 >polar orbits because they seek to observe the entire Earth.

 >Clear skies,

 >Bob Young

Hello Bob:

Spy sats do indeed have polar and near polar orbits, often at
low orbits, hundreds of miles instead of thousands. This makes
them easier to spot if the hour is right.

They must appear as "night-lights" with smooth continuous
trajectories .. exactly the sort of garbage I filter out of my
data, so my statistics should not be much biased by those.
   Again, I saw no such North-South bias.


Best

- Larry Hatch







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                     Re: Jimmy Carter The Nobel Prize &

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 21:10:09 EDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 17:34:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Jimmy Carter The Nobel Prize &


 >From: Grant Cameron <presidentialufo@presidency.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 15:08:32 -0500
 >Subject: Jimmy Carter The Nobel Prize & Extraterrestrials

<snip>

 >his sighting of a strange unidentified object in Leary, Georgia
 >in 1969.

 >Carter has always been open to talking about the 1969 UFO
 >sighting, which he described as a "very remarkable sight," and
 >"the darndest thing I have ever seen." Carter has talked about
 >it in many question and answer sessions following speeches, or
 >on open-line talk show promoting the many books he has written.

Grant:

This famous IFO was actually the planet Venus, as determined by
Robert Sheaffer many years ago and published in The Humanist,
July-August 1977, p. 46.

The problem was that Carter was mistaken about the date
when recounting it years later.  Sheaffer got to the bottom of it.

Please see: http://www.debunker.com/texts/carter_ufo.html

Anybody who still uses this old, tired IFO without addressing
Robert Sheaffer's long-published investigation just hasn't done
their homework.


Clear skies,

Bob Young







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                         Re: Math vs. Moore - Young

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 22:00:59 EDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 17:55:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Math vs. Moore - Young


 >From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 21:46:26 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Math vs. Moore

<snip>

 >Moore either deliberately cooked the data or he was suffering
 >from what I refer to as "selective incompetence," which is an
 >affliction sometimes suffered by scientists writing official
 >public relations materials for taxpayer-supported agencies like
 >the Smithsonian Institution Press. The subtitle of Moore's book,
 >"Genesis of a Modern Myth," apparently refers to what Moore was
 >doing by writing the book as much as it does to whatever really
 >happened at Roswell.

So, now you have added the charge of fraud? Why don't you call
the police.

I'm quite impressed with all of this, but for one thing. I have
noticed that you have conveniently ignored, in detail, Tim
Printy's analysis. I suppose that he is guilty of perpetrating a
scientific fraud, too?


Clear skies,

Bob Young

"Maccabee's Second Rule For Debunkers: if the first explanation
doesn't work or doesn't seem convincing, publicize another."






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               Russians Wonder: Mummy Of ET Or Retarded Child?

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 09:17:30 +0200
Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 18:01:42 -0400
Subject: Russians Wonder: Mummy Of ET Or Retarded Child?


Source: Pravda.RU,

http://english.pravda.ru/main/2002/10/12/38068.html

Stig

***

16:50 2002-10-12

Archaeologists are puzzled who is the foundling: an
extraterrestrial or just a retarded child

**

A messenger of a highly developed civilization of Alfa
Centaurus, with head in a space helmet shape -- in this way this
odd creature looks in an archive film. It was found in 1996 in a
small settlement of Chelyabinsk Region.

Regional newspapers published photographs of one more strange,
for them, individual. Diguci Masao, producer of the Japanese TV
company Asahi TV offered 200 thousand dollars to the person who
could sell him the 21-cm mummy.

"If even we did not have this dwarf, we should have invent it,"
-- newspapers read. The Asahi journalists even came to the
settlement to shot a film about the dwarf. However, nothing
particular was told to the Japanese. Tamara Prosfirina who is
said to have found the creature and even called it Alesha soon
got to a mental hospital and later died in strange
circumstances. In the film, only fragments of her description
could be heard. The woman explains that she found the creature
while going through forest during the storm.

Where is the creature (or, as others call it, the mummy of an
embryo) now, is unknown. New articles about the
"extraterrestrial" appear only as new versions of old
descriptions, while accumulating new details. In particular,
journalists report that the mysterious creature lived with the
woman about a month and ate exclusively yoghurt and caramel.

While in the city of Yekaterinburg, hot discussions are being
lead whether to give over or not to give over the mummy to the
foreigners. Leading forensic experts of Ural Region, who
examined the tsar remains, said that now that mummy or whatever
it may be should be at first examined and only afterwards to be
given of not to the Japanese.

"It was found on Russian soil, so it should belong to Russia.
Though, of course, nothing should be concealed in science. And
if the extraterrestrial theory is proved, the facts and the
mummy should be the property of the whole humanity," -- expert
Vladimir Kroptov supposes.

Now, regional customs officials are also searching for the
extraterrestrial. They say they will not allow smuggling the
mummy abroad. If it is necessary, they are ready to sent the
mummy's description to all posts. Most of sensible people in
Ural Region are of opinion that the customs officials have been
fallen a prey to advertising campaign of the Japanese.

Specialists of Anthropology Institute are sceptical about the
case of the extraterrestrial. The chief of anthropology
reconstruction laboratory, Tatyana Balueva said that Alesha
might be a very small, probably, not born child. "The creature's
arms and legs look like human extremities, while its skull is
not completely formed. It could be a sick child, having a
serious pathology. It is most likely a human being," -- Tatyana
Balueva states.

**

[Link:] Russian UFO Portal

Translated by Vera Solovieva

Copyright =A91999 by "Pravda.RU". When reproducing our materials
in whole or in part, reference to Pravda.RU should be made. The
opinions and views of the authors do not always coinside with
the point of view of PRAVDA.Ru's editors.








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              Re: Air Traffic Staff See 'Ghost Planes' - Clarke

From: David  Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 09:56:18 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 18:04:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Air Traffic Staff See 'Ghost Planes' - Clarke


 >From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 16:39:21 +0100
 >Subject: Re: Air Traffic Staff See 'Ghost Planes'


Hi Sean,

 >True, I got a little confused while typing.

Yes, I would agree with you there.

Best,

Dave Clarke








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                       Re: Angel Hair Links - Gehrman

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 11:16:11 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 18:08:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Angel Hair Links - Gehrman


 >From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 21:09:59 -0400
 >Subject: Angel Hair Links

 >Greetings List

 >Below are a number of links which were compiled for the end of
 >Keith Basterfield's article but for some reason were never
 >incorporated into the Project 1947 material.  Some links are old
 >and may have rotted away.

 >Jan Aldrich
 >Project 1947

Jan & List,

Great set of links. What they tell me is that the angel hair
phenomena has several common factors:

Angel hair falls are often accompanied by either a UFO sighting
or a strange sound such as a drone or hum.

The web-like material is hard to hold in bare hands, but can be
collected and studied.

The web-like material is probably not spiders' web but is like
the protein silk made by insects and caterpillars.

The best links for viewing exactly what the classic angel hair
looks like:

http://www.neverland.net/bati/english/eovni.htm

http://www.homestead.com/rustys_retreat/spiderstuff.html

The best non-UFO explanation:

http://www.ksinc.net/~devilsad/angelh.htm

And another viewpoint

http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/60/hair.html


Ed















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              Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair' -

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 11:59:44 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 18:10:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair' -


 >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 22:16:33 +0000
 >Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'

 >>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren@pacbell.net>
 >>Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 06:31:06 -0700
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'

 >>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 14:47:52 +0000
 >>>Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'

 >>>>From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >>>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>>Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 02:50:44 +0200
 >>>>Subject: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'

 >>>>Source: AP Wire via Bayarea.com,

 >>>>http://www.bayarea.com/mld/bayarea/4238723.htm

 >>>Back in the 1950s when NICAP first began studying 'Angel's Hair'
 >>>reports in conjunction with CSI of New York, the first thing we
 >>>noticed is what Isabel Davis referred to as the 'Octoberishness'
 >>>of the reports. October is spider migration season in North
 >>>America.


Dick & list,

While spiders do move from one place to another in both spring and fall,
the material from these falls of angel hair does not seem to be
spider web.  It certainly isn't like any spider web that I've examined.
I had my samples tested and like the other angel hair samples
"there seems to be a common biological source, but that source
remains unidentified."

 >>Greetings Dick & Stig & All,

 >>My two cents if I may; although it is 'likely' that the so-
 >>called 'spider webs' are indeed just that, I might point out
 >>that northern California is often the location for 'chemtrail
 >>spraying'. This has been going on the last few weeks in fact.
 >>Currently I'm trying to ascertain whether the phenomena took
 >>place over Santa Cruz the day of the 'spider web' sightings, and
 >>or possibly the day before. I have seen a 'web-like' substance,
 >>after chemtrail spraying, with my own eyes, and it looks very
 >>much like a very 'thick' spider-web.

 >>In addition, I might point out that Santa Cruz of course is
 >>right on the coast, so 'where' the webs were sighted in the city
 >>would seem to be paramount to the situation. (I don't think
 >>there is a species of spider that lives in the sea, and the
 >>winds usually moves westward). Also for the molecular biology
 >>professor (from Wyoming) who I would guess offered his opinion
 >>via the telephone, based on the article, seems to have a mind-
 >>set not condusive to alternative explanations for this type of
 >>phenomena. (How many times have we heard the statement, 'no such
 >>thing?')

 >>Anyway, the point is, without further data the only thing that
 >>can be offered, in my opinion, is conjecture.

 >What are "chemtrail sprayings?" Conjecture? Fantasy? Paranoid
 >imagination? You talk as if I should know and accept that
 >"chemtrail sprayings" are something real and established. If so,
 >where is the evidence, who is doing it, why, etc.?

 >Migrating spiders are a well-known and established fact of
 >nature.

Yes but spiders don't seem to be the source for the angel hair
material, so why not consider other possibilities. Just
repeating spider web, spider web, spider web and ignoring the
possible UFO connection is about as productive as James E's
pelican, pelican, pelican.

Does this look like spider web to you?

http://www.neverland.net/bati/english/eovni.htm


Ed








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                     The Alien Jigsaw [Original and New]

From: Katharina Wilson <K_Wilson@alienjigsaw.com>
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 21:53:06 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 18:21:24 -0400
Subject: The Alien Jigsaw [Original and New]


To All:

I have ended a nearly three-year hiatus from sharing my personal
experiences with the public.

I wanted to let researchers and any abductees or experiencers on
this list know that I have re-posted my original "Alien Jigsaw"
Web site minus two sections; one that was written in the German
language and another, which is mostly duplicated on the new
site.

In the future I will be adding a page to the site that will
cover new information.

The URLs are listed below for quick reference purposes.

Thank you,

K. Wilson


The original "Alien Jigsaw" Web site


http://www.alienjigsaw.com/yk2/TAJ_index.html


Table of Contents - Original "Alien Jigsaw"  Web site


http://www.alienjigsaw.com/yk2/contents.html


Personal Contact - New Web site


http://www.alienjigsaw.com/Part_III/person.html







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               Disclosure2003 Campaign Update - Oct. 13, 2002

From: Stephen Bassett <Disclosure2003@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 02:36:55 EDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 18:29:12 -0400
Subject: Disclosure2003 Campaign Update - Oct. 13, 2002


D I S C L O S U R E 2 0 0 3
MD 8th District Congressional Campaign of Stephen Bassett

Campaign Update - October 13, 2002

Upcoming Debate/Forums

The following information is also available on the website
www.disclosure2003.net under "Debates and Forums."

October 21, Monday 8 - 10 pm (Invitation expected)
Montgomery Community College Candidate Debate
Montgomery Community College
51 Mannakee Street, Rockville, MD 20850

This will be a live debate and will almost certainly be aired on
community television (channels 16, 19 and/or 21) numerous times
prior to November 5. This debate alone could be worth the effort
to conduct this campaign.

October 19 - November 4 (Repeated airings)
Maryland League of Women Voters - Montgomery Chapter
Candidate Debate
Montgomery Community Television - Channels 19 and 21

This will be a 30 minute taped as live debate, and the League of
Women Voters has once again come through with a policy of
diversity and inclusion.

October 13 - November 4 (Repeated airings)
Candidate's Position Statement (4 minutes)
Montgomery Community Television
Channels 19 and 21

This position statement should be viewed as the stamp on the
envelope D2003 has sent to the people, the government and the
political media. It will air many times prior to the election.

October 12 - Nov. 4 (Repeated airings of Oct. 7 forum)
People's Community Baptist Church - Candidate's Forum
Montgomery Municipal Cable Television - Channel 16

This forum included Congresswomen Morella, Senator Van Hollen
along with the 4th District Republican candidate. 4th District
congressman Wynn was not able to attend.


California Presentation in San Francisco Canceled

This event was canceled when the candidate was unable to
clear security at Reagan International in time to make the
plane (candidate's fault). Please accept our apology if
you were inconvenienced. A funding tour of the Southwest
was being put together which also had to be canceled or
postponed. The money was badly needed.

However, in the "there's always a reason why things happen"
category..... a slew of debate developments took place
over the weekend and an extended West Coast trip would
have almost certainly resulted in missing out on some of
these critical debates, and the debates are far more important
than money - they are the purpose of the campaign.


Polling

The first independent poll conducted since the primary was done
by the Gazette Newspapers in conjunction with the Baltimore Sun.
The D2003 candidate was not included. The voters were only asked
which of the two party candidates they would vote for. The
result: 43% Van Hollen, 40% Morella, 17% UNDECIDED

The candidate sent a letter to all local media pointing out
there are 71,000 registered independent voters, 18%, in the 8th
District, and the D2003 campaign collected 5177 nominating
signatures. Excluding the third person on the ballot clearly
distorted the picture of the election. Only the Gazette
Newspaper published the letter, the only D2003 mention since a
small article on April 24.

Failure to include independent and third party candidates in
independent polling is a national scandal.


Local (Washington Metro) Media Coverage

The Washington Post, Washington Times and Gazette Newspapers
(owned by the Post) have refused to cover the campaign beyond a
small Gazette article on April 24 and a July 18 Post article on
fringe candidates. Nothing from the Times. Direct conversations
have taken place between the candidate and the metro editors of
all three papers and the reporters assigned to the election. It
hasn't helped.

Further, hundreds of letters and emails have been sent to these
newspapers requesting coverage of D2003. This is known because
the campaign was copied. Not a single one of these letters to
these editors were published.

All local radio and television news outlets have also refused to
cover the D2003 campaign with the exception of cable access and
community television, which is why they are needed. Fortunately,
the cable television penetration in the 8th District of Maryland
is one of the highest in the nation. Also, national coverage and
media appearances continue - an odd circumstance. Pravda is
interested, the Washington Post which serves the voters in this
election, is not.

This situation may well change during the final two weeks before
the election. It was always assumed that local media would
provide no coverage that would assist this effort in the early
stages. That would include the collection of signatures, raising
money, recruiting volunteers and getting out the message.
However, near the end coverage will likely turn up. At that time
it can do little to assist the candidacy, and the editors can
say they did their job as journalists.

So be it. If the message gets out in the final weeks, the
fundamental goal of D2003 will be achieved.

One final note: in the interest of fairness it is important to
mention the current media situation in the 8th District is
extraordinary and unprecedented. The entire community is being
stalked by a serial sniper. What little media time is left over
after the intensive coverage of America's move toward preemptive
war, is taken up by the hunt for this killer. However, the lack
of coverage of D2003 was established well before these
developments.

_________________________________________________

Transparent government, private citizenry
_________________________________________________

Campaign Headquarters
Bethesda/Gaithersburg
4938 Hampden Lane, #161
Bethesda, MD 20814
Phone: 301-990-4290  Cell: 202-431-2459
Email: Disclosure2003@aol.com
Website: www.disclosure2003.net








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                        Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Bourdais

From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 12:07:40 +0200
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 18:31:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Symbols [UMMO] - Bourdais


 >From: Gregory Gutierez <greguti@free.fr>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 19:11:53 +0200
 >Subject: Re: Symbols [UMMO]

 >>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 18:20:17 +0200
 >>Subject: Re: Symbols [UMMO]

 >>In his chapter 3, "Ummo and Ufology", Pollion contends that we
 >>still don't know with certainty if we deal with material
 >>phenomena, or only optical, or "parapsychological, or unkwown
 >>psychological actions in the head of witnesses." (p 101) He
 >>dismisses even classic cases such as Trans-en-Provence and
 >>"L'Amarante" in France (thoroughly studied, and confirmed by the
 >>official GEPAN in the 80's).

 >I think there is a mistake here, about what says Pollion on the
 >cases for Trans-en-Provence and "L'amarante". You reduce it to
 >blind critics on ufology.

 >I understand quite differently his sentence p.101 of his book:
 >contrary to what you say, he takes the 2 cases as examples of
 >what ufology should be: "...convincing material evidence as in
 >the two french cases of l'Amarante and Trans-en-Provence".
 >He doesn't dismiss these cases, he takes them as examples of a
 >good (but very rare) scientific work!


To Gregory and the List

Here is the complete paragraph of the book of Jean Pollion
"Ummo, True Extraterrestrials !".

I translate as closely as possible (chapter 3 "Ummo and
Ufology", page 101) :

"In effect, nobody has ever been able to bring an irrefutable
demonstration establishing the nature of the observed phenomena,
or even convincing material evidences like in the two French
cases of Trans-en-Provence and "l'amarante". I exclude of course
the most questionable case of Roswell. Among more than 10,000
observations catalogued outside of the United States, only about
one or two hundred gather enough different physical elements to
bring about a coherent description. So much so that the majority
of informations is available only in the form of testimonies"

What did Pollion really mean in his first sentence ? If you read
it well, it bears a contradiction. In the first part of it,
Pollion states that nobody has brought any convincing evidence,
including material evidence. And then he cites as example Trans
and l'amarante. If he meant that they are two outstanding
exceptions, then his sentence is very clumsy. He should have
written something like "with the exception of Trans and
l'amarante".

But then it would be an incredible sentence, put in the context of
his whole book, in which he repeats that there is nothing
serious in ufology except Ummo !

For instance, in his foreword, Pollion writes (page 27) :
"...governments have never financed research worthy of that name
and have rarely encouraged the gathering of informations".

Since GEPAN was a part of the publicly financed "National Center
for Space Studies" (Centre National d'Etudes Spatiales), the
Pollion statement clearly means that he discards the GEPAN
studies like Trans and l'amarante !

 >>Pollion explains that he got involved in ufology by reading the
 >>book of Jean-Pierre Petit about Ummo, After that he spent all
 >>his free time studying Ummo, and it is clear that he has studied
 >>little else than Ummo, regarding Ufos.

 >I didn't understand it in the book neither.

 >In the foreword, Pollion explains that he begun to read about
 >ufos as soon as 1954, when the big french wave occured. Further
 >he notices that he read "a little more than 10 books" about ufos
 >before reading his first book about UMMO by Jean-Pierre Petit in
 >1995 (10 books in 40 years is not very much, I agree, but
 >Pollion didn't start reading on the subject with Jean-Pierre
 >Petit books!).

Indeed, he has not read much, outside of the Ummo letters.
Certainly not enough to discard the whole of ufology. May I
suggest that he read for instance the last book of Richard Hall,
published last year:

"The UFO Evidence - Volume II. A thirty years report".


Gildas Bourdais








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                       Re: Math vs. Moore - Hutchinson

From: Bruce Hutchinson <bhutch@grassyhill.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 11:05:04 -500
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 18:36:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Math vs. Moore - Hutchinson


 >From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Math vs. Moore [was: Rudiak vs. Moore]
 >Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 01:52:31 -0700

Dear List and Readers,

The most interesting feature of David's arguments in his post is
how he almost completely rebuts some of his own arguments on his
web site!

It seems that David has already abandoned his original arguments
detailed in his "fuzzy math" section. Gone is the the illegal
advancement of 5 data points- indeed, Rudiak's entire argument
in his "fuzzy math" section is now gone. He was totally wrong,
as he himself proved in his latest post! There is a humorous
symmetry evident here.

And why this sudden shift? After Tim Printy pointed out how
David overlooked the obvious, David was forced into a different
angle of attack. Note that he does not admit his web site is
wrong, but his post illuminates that fact rather nicely.

So it now comes down on how to use the Oregrande chart. After
interpolating the data, Moore plotted the track his way, Rudiak
and Sparks chose a different method. It would appear that Moore
chose to use wind and direction data as the balloons
_approached_ the altitude check points, thus the appearance of
"pushing back" data. As Moore did not discuss this, we can only
surmise as to his reasons, but it is obvious that this was the
method he employed.

If you are like David, then you start with the assumption that
Moore was a card-carrying member of the Grand Conspiracy to de-
  bunk the saucer crash claims. If you are like David, then it is
obvious that Moore _had_ to of "cooked the books"- all you have
to do is rationalize a different way plotting the data to
"prove" your point. But if you are like the rest of the world,
then you accept that Moore is exactly what he appears to be- a
retired Professor of Atmospheric Physics.

Who is right; Moore or Rudiak? We can debate this, but perhaps
it is best left to a qualified Atmospheric Physicist. But note
that Rudiak's argument on his web page is patently wrong- there
was no selective editing of data by Moore, no hidden shifting of
data points, no missing 30 minutes. And David is certainly not
"irrefutably" right, although he will undoubtedly continue to
make that claim.

 >You've immediately gone to the critical mathematical issues
 >that Printy and Hutchinson skipped. Everything else from
 >Printy/Hutchinson Never-Say-Ill-of-a-Fellow-Debunker
 >Productions is just blowing smoke.

Tim Printy skipped nothing here. He explained very clearly on
his site how he was able to reconstruct Moore's plot without
resorting to the machinations Rudiak tries to portray. Tim
showed very clearly that Rudiak was wrong.

<snip>

 >The upper atmospheric region is the important one, because it
 >is here that the winds suddenly shift direction. This is vital
 >to Moore's model. It is also vital to understand where Moore
 >went wrong here, because it determines where and when the
 >balloons made their key turn during their ascent phase.

 >Pushing the data points back one causes the balloons to turn
 >early. Since Moore's previous data point was 30 minutes before
 >the indicated turn point in Moore's table, this has the effect
 >of shaving half an hour off of Flight #4's ascent trajectory in
 >the upper atmosphere. (Hutchinson/Printy refer to this as "the
 >missing 30 minutes" and claim it never was. But oh yes, it did
 >exist!)

Here is where we see David shifting his arguments away from his
claims on his web site. According to David's site, Moore's plot
does not agree with his table because he jury-rigged the graph
by "illegally" altering 5 data points. It would help here if
David would try for some measure of consistency in his claims.
Which argument is "irrefutable", David?

Moore apparently did not factor in very heavily the effect of
the wind/direction at ground level, and because his model used
the Oregrande wind data at 4921 for the transition from ground
to that height, it appears at first glance that he "threw out"
the first (ground level) wind/direction data.

However, Tim noted that there are some very small discrepancies
in the first few data points between his plots and Moore's.
Moore may have made some small adjustments to the plots to
account for the ground level readings. This is pure speculation,
but it does account for the small differences.

 >It is _absolutely provable_ that Moore's early turn point is
 >bogus. The proof is in Moore's Table 2, where he reconstructs
 >the Flight #5 data and back-calculates the wind speeds and
 >directions from the position and time information. Here's a
 >snippet of the table right at the beginning and in the critical
 >region above 46000 feet showing the interpolated wind data:

David pounds on Flight #5 only because it serves his purpose to
insinuate that Moore cooked the books. He continues to ignore
the fact that Moore based his calculations based on Flight 5
AND Flight #6. He fails to tell you that flight #6 turned at
52K- admitting that would dilute his argument considerably.

It is not "provable" that #4 had to have turned at this
altitude. #6 turned at 52k, so Moore's model for this possible
track continues to be valid, despite Rudiak's strident attempts
to distort this point.

<snip>

 >Now lets compare Moore's Flight #4 and #5 table data side by
 >side to see where Moore (and Printy) screwed up big time.

So where is the attendant table of data from #6? As Moore very
clearly says that he used _both_ flights as his model, Rudiak
continues to obfuscate the issues here through
misrepresentation.

"This calculated track for NYU flight #4 was based on the
troposphere winds reported from Oregrande, New Mexico, on 3 and
4 June 1947, and on the stratospheric winds encountered by NYU
Flights #5 and #6." ('UFO Crash at Roswell', figure 4, page
102).

<snip>

 >The symmetry of Moore's wind data during rise and fall is
 >destroyed. Equivalent wind data get's pushed to lower
 >altitudes during rise and higher altitudes during fall. One
 >consequence of this is that the rise and fall turn points for
 >his model Flight #4 no longer match up.

Like Rudiak, neither Tim nor I is a meteorologist. But it seems
reasonable to assume that the balloon train would encounter the
measured winds at some point after the previous mark and as it
passed _through_ each plot point. For that reason, Moore's
method of "pushing back" the wind data seems logical.

 >Whether this was deliberate hoaxing on Moore's part, as I
 >asserted on my Web site, or unbelievably crappy math on the
 >part of a trained scientist like Moore is unimportant. Moore
 >simply did it wrong. And so did Printy rushing to Moore's
 >defense.

Considering that your own arguments in this post completely
destroyed the principle argument on your web site, I find this
allegation to be extremely humorous. Tim made no claim that
Moore's plot is the definitive answer. Tim simply showed that
Rudiak was clearly wrong in his assertion that Moore "secretly"
fudged 5 data points.

 >The mathematical arguments proving Moore wrong are
 >unassailable. They cannot refute one word of what I wrote
 >above. The honorable thing for them to do is retract their
 >poorly-thought out assertions that I did it wrong and admit
 >that Moore is the guilty party here and that his "calculated"
 >trajectory is wrong.

One wonders when Rudiak will do the 'honorable thing' and admit
that his "fuzzy math" section on his web site is, as he has
proven here, wrong, and that he is guilty of assumptions that he
himself has demonstrated to be "poorly-thought out".

 >E.g., Printy crows he figured out how Moore did his
 >"calculation" whereas I didn't completely figure it out. This
 >somehow makes me "wrong" and Moore "right."

No, it means that Tim showed that is painfully obvious on your
site that you failed to understand how Moore used the data. The
site's ill-conceived arguments based are based on this failure,
colored by your pre-conceived assumption that Moore is an evil
debunker.

So the whole discussion boils down to how to interpret Moore's
chart, something that you, Brad Sparks, Tim Printy, or myself
are not qualified to do.

It is worth noting here that despite all of Rudiak's thrashing
about, the available data for the weather conditions on June 4,
1947 still support a ground track that would take Flight #4 in
the vicinity of Foster's Ranch. Even Rudiak's attempt at
deconstruction failed to disprove that. Moore clearly stated
that the track he presented was just one of many possibilities-
  he even went through the trouble of showing some of the other's
in his chart.

As for Rudiak's math being "unassailable" and his proofs
"irrefutable", you should ask David about which version is he
referring to?


Regards,

Bruce Hutchinson








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                        Deaths Attributable To UFOs?

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 16:08:37 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 18:39:00 -0400
Subject: Deaths Attributable To UFOs?



Speaking of.....

Has anyone done any research to determine whether people exposed
to close-range UFO sightings and physiological effects
subsequently died prematurely or showed overt symptoms of
radiation sickness like Betty Cash or other lethal effects?

This is a potentially extremely important area of research.

I recently heard from the grandson and a daughter of a man who
was driving through Georgia on June 24, 1964, and his car was
buzzed repeatedly by a carousel or top-shaped UFO.

He got a strange substance on his arm and abnormal radioactivity
was detected on his car. (The case was investigated and reported
by NICAP at the time.) He was 47 at the time.

The sighting was quite shocking to him and he talked a lot about
it to his family.

I inquired about his manner of death and was told that he had a
heart attack in September 1965 and died in January 1966 as he
had just turned 49.

This is not a clear-cut case of cause and effect, but a lot more
study of this kind could provide some interesting data.

  - Dick








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              Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair' -

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren@pacbell.net>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 11:09:53 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 18:41:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair' -


 >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 22:16:33 +0000
 >Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'

 >>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren@pacbell.net>
 >>Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 06:31:06 -0700
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'

 >>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 14:47:52 +0000
 >>>Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'

 >>>>From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk
 >>>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>>Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 02:50:44 +0200
 >>>>Subject: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'

 >>>>Source: AP Wire via Bayarea.com,

 >>>>http://www.bayarea.com/mld/bayarea/4238723.htm

 >>>Back in the 1950s when NICAP first began studying 'Angel's Hair'
 >>>reports in conjunction with CSI of New York, the first thing we
 >>>noticed is what Isabel Davis referred to as the 'Octoberishness'
 >>>of the reports. October is spider migration season in North
 >>>America.
 >
 >>>- Dick
 >
 >>Greetings Dick & Stig & All,

 >>My two cents if I may; although it is 'likely' that the so-
 >>called 'spider webs' are indeed just that, I might point out
 >>that northern California is often the location for 'chemtrail
 >>spraying'. This has been going on the last few weeks in fact.
 >>Currently I'm trying to ascertain whether the phenomena took
 >>place over Santa Cruz the day of the 'spider web' sightings, and
 >>or possibly the day before. I have seen a 'web-like' substance,
 >>after chemtrail spraying, with my own eyes, and it looks very
 >>much like a very 'thick' spider-web.

 >>In addition, I might point out that Santa Cruz of course is
 >>right on the coast, so 'where' the webs were sighted in the city
 >>would seem to be paramount to the situation. (I don't think
 >>there is a species of spider that lives in the sea, and the
 >>winds usually moves westward). Also for the molecular biology
 >>professor (from Wyoming) who I would guess offered his opinion
 >>via the telephone, based on the article, seems to have a mind-
 >>set not condusive to alternative explanations for this type of
 >>phenomena. (How many times have we heard the statement, 'no such
 >>thing?')

 >>Anyway, the point is, without further data the only thing that
 >>can be offered, in my opinion, is conjecture.

 >Frank,

 >What are "chemtrail sprayings?" Conjecture? Fantasy? Paranoid
 >imagination? You talk as if I should know and accept that
 >chemtrail sprayings" are something real and established. If so,
 >where is the evidence, who is doing it, why, etc.?

 >Migrating spiders are a well-known and established fact of
 >nature.

 >"Chemtrail sprayings" insofar as I have read on the internet are
 >only someone's rich imagination without one iota of empirical
 >data. People see contrails that they don't think are normal
 >contrails, but present zero convincing evidence for this
 >conclusion.

 >I am very serious about this: What are "chemtrail sprayings" and
 >how do you know it?

Good Morning Dick & All,

First off Dick let me take this opportunity to say that you are
on my "short list" of researchers/investigators/Ufologists,
etc., that I have the utmost respect and admiration for, and
it's a pleasure to "bat the ball around" with you on this issue.

Before I try to answer your question, "what are chemtrails?" I
want to reiterate that I believe what was reported in Santa Cruz
was/is "most likely" drifting spider webs, which I have
witnessed at one time or another. However, because the author
chose to infuse said article with "UFOs, angel hair, aerial
anomalies, extraterrestial beings and or a spirit presence," and
took the time to call an expert on "floating spider webs," he
didn't explore the other side of the coin of similar described
phenomena. With that in mind, I thought I would toss in my two
cents based on what was described in the article. Also I might
point out that "Ed Gehrman" wrote to Dr. Lewis and posted the
response on this list: (Good work Ed!)

"I have not seen the material. I was asked by the reporter what
kind of spider material it was. The most likely material is that
used by the spiders to parachute from one location to another.
If it is not spider silk then any comments from me don't apply.

So here we have a reporter quoting "an expert" who hasn't seen
any of the material, and or witnessed the phenomena, and
apparently wasn't asked an "open-ended" question, only one about
his expertise, i.e., "floating spider webs." I guess the this
modus operandi of reporting is all to common for "unusual
phenomenon," and quite frankly is more then a little irritating
to me!

Now, terms used for various things have a different meaning for
different people. For example, "UFO" to some means an
"extraterrestial craft" with "little gray guys" flying it around
our planet. For me, UFO still holds it's "original definition,"
but I have found when I use the term I put "verbatim" in
parenthesis after the word to avoid any confusion. Having said
that, I will endeavor to define what "Chemtrails" mean to me,
but to accomplish that let's start with what "contrails" are:

"Contrails (condensation trails)are streaks of condensed water
vapor that form behind airplanes (from the exhaust) at very high
altitudes usually above 8 km where the air is extremely cold
less then -40=B0C." [Source:NASA]

What "I" call "Chemtrails" is what comes from an aircraft that
does not fall into the above mentioned parameters. Omitting what
is on the internet, either pro or con, (Chemtrail or contrail)
what I have witnessed with my own eyes on several occasions is
jets, usually two, sometimes more flying back and forth making a
"perfect grid pattern" in the sky, seemingly much lower in
altitude then "normal airtraffic" and below what is the
necessary requirements to form a normal contrail. Having become
more interested in this phenomenon lately, I have been paying
close attention to what is flying overhead in our area
(Sacramento Ca.). Also, I had my first UFO sighting not to many
months ago (finally) and have kept an eye upward (more then
usual) ever since. With this in mind, and being aware of the
locations of the local airports and the "air-traffic" of
civilian, as well as military aircraft, one gets accustomed to
the "flight patterns" of the area. What I have witnessed does
not fall into the afore mentioned airflight patterns, and I
doubt that making a "perfect grid pattern" with what ever came
from the aircraft is a "random coincidence," although I'm sure
there are those who would suggest just that. Once the grid
pattern is formed the trails turn into "what looks like normal
clouds," and if one wasn't paying attention, one would think

that it was just a cloudy day. I have seen a bright sun shiny
day turn completely overcast from artificial means.

Aside from those attributes I have also witnessed an "oily
appearance" in these clouds, as mentioned in many sites on the
internet, and have seen "spider-web looking" material in the
aftermath of said events. (Not on every occasion however).
Moreover, I have seen more then one "emission" coming from said
aircraft, simultaneously, which are different in shape of each
other. I have seen the emissions stop and start, as if they were
being turned "on and off" manually. (I realize there have been
"atmospheric explanations" for this occurence). Finally, I have
witnessed "normal contrail activity" at the same time of the so-
called "Chemtrail activity."

Admittedly, I have not used any scientific methodology in my
observations. What are these emissions? I don't know. Who is
doing this" I don't know?

For what purpose? I don't know. What I do know, is that what I
have witnessed does not fall into the above mentioned definition
of a contrail.

In my previous post I used the term, "spraying," which was a
leap on my part, as I have not personally seen any type of
apparatus on these aircraft due to the distance during an
observation. The "grid-like pattern" left behind after this
activity is reminiscent of a field being systematically crop
dusted, hence the "spraying" comment.

As with the UFO subject, there is an abundance of information
"pro and con" about Chemtrail/contrail emissions. Like UFOs the
subject has drawn attention from the Air Force, enough to have
them make a public statement on the issue, as well as motivating
a member of Congress to attempt to pass a bill for our
government to halt any activity involving what has become known
as "Chemtrails." In the end, in my opinion, the phenomenon is
real, and warrants further investigation and study.


Best Regards,

Frank








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                      Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Novak

From: John Novak <john@supremalex.org>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 15:07:05 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 18:59:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Novak


 >From: Kelly Peterborough <kellymcg@attcanada.ca>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 18:40:07 -0400
 >Subject: Flight-Paths Of UFOs

<snip>

 >I just read on another List that it has been 'verified' (no
 >sources cited) that the 'majority' (no percentage given) of
 >UFOs flight-paths take a north to south or south to north
 >direction.

 >My dear Larry H., is this something you have kept track of
 >in your database? Anybody else have any comments? And
 >if the above is true, any speculation as to why?


I can only speak from my own personal experience. I was the
webmaster for James Gilliland and actually lived at his ranch
for a while in Trout Lake, Washington at the base of Mt. Adams.
Over the years, I have lost count of all the anomalous flying
objects I've seen there. http://www.eceti.org

Of the ones that seem to be at a low altitude (500-5000 ft. or
so), they travel all over the place and in all directions. They
have even circled Mt.Adams and then come right over our heads.
The closest one seemed almost close enough to throw a rock at.
I've also seen them spin in tight spirals around each other then
vanish right over head. These ones are the golden-white or
orange balls of light. We have seen these change colors also.

I've also seen three of the huge triangle UFOs up there. These
always seem to moving in a north to south pattern, although the
first time I saw one of these, it came out of the north, then
made a wide turn to the east and headed out of site.

Then there's the UFOs that we called, "high flyers", or ones
that appear to be at satellite altitude. These move mostly on
the north-south route, although we have video of some making
zig-zags and full stops.

--John Novak

http://www.supremalex.org

----Salus Plebeyos Suprema Lex----
The Joy of Those Who Create is the Supreme Law







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                        Re: Angel Hair Links - Young

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 18:28:57 EDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 19:00:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Angel Hair Links - Young


 >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 11:16:11 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Angel Hair Links

<snip>

 >Angel hair falls are often accompanied by either a UFO sighting
 >or a strange sound such as a drone or hum.

Hi, Ed, List:

Last week I was hiking on the North Rim of the Grand Canyon.
I live in a city and was struck by the utter silence, but for the
wind in the pines. It is never quiet at home.


Clear skies,

Bob Young






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                     Re: Jimmy Carter The Nobel Prize &

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 22:29:30 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 19:03:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Jimmy Carter The Nobel Prize &


 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 21:10:09 EDT
 >Subject: Re: Jimmy Carter The Nobel Prize & Extraterrestrials

 >>From: Grant Cameron <presidentialufo@presidency.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 15:08:32 -0500
 >>Subject: Jimmy Carter The Nobel Prize & Extraterrestrials

 >>his sighting of a strange unidentified object in Leary, Georgia
 >>in 1969.

 >>Carter has always been open to talking about the 1969 UFO
 >>sighting, which he described as a "very remarkable sight," and
 >>"the darndest thing I have ever seen." Carter has talked about
 >>it in many question and answer sessions following speeches, or
 >>on open-line talk show promoting the many books he has written.

 >Grant:

 >This famous IFO was actually the planet Venus, as determined by
 >Robert Sheaffer many years ago and published in The Humanist,
 >July-August 1977, p. 46.

 >The problem was that Carter was mistaken about the date
 >when recounting it years later.  Sheaffer got to the bottom of it.

 >Please see: http://www.debunker.com/texts/carter_ufo.html

 >Anybody who still uses this old, tired IFO without addressing
 >Robert Sheaffer's long-published investigation just hasn't done
 >their homework.


Bob,

Was it now? Absolutely and with great certainty? Although I
recognize that it _may_ have been Venus, anyone who believes
Robert Sheaffer is an accurate and reliable reporter of anything
hasn't done his homework. You cite him as an authoritative
source, not to be questioned.

Well now, at the (in)famous abduction conference at M.I.T. I had
just participated in a panel discussion on worldwide abduction
reports, and during a break Sheaffer aggressively addressed me
in the corridor asking, "If abduction cases are real, why are
they only reported in North America?" We had just reviewed cases
from all over the world!

Nor was that my only "encounter" with a loud, adamant,
aggressive, and ill-informed Sheaffer.

Some day I may publish my memoirs.

  - Dick









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              Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair' -

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 22:39:35 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 19:06:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair' -


 >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'
 >Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 11:59:44 -0700

 >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 22:16:33 +0000
 >>Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'

<snip>

 >>What are "chemtrail sprayings?" Conjecture? Fantasy? Paranoid
 >>imagination? You talk as if I should know and accept that
 >>"chemtrail sprayings" are something real and established. If so,
 >>where is the evidence, who is doing it, why, etc.?

 >>Migrating spiders are a well-known and established fact of
 >>nature.

 >Yes but spiders don't seem to be the source for the angel hair
 >material, so why not consider other possibilities. Just
 >repeating spider web, spider web, spider web and ignoring the
 >possible UFO connection is about as productive as James E's
 >pelican, pelican, pelican.

 >Does this look like spider web to you?

 >http://www.neverland.net/bati/english/eovni.htm


Ed,

Short answer, yes. Until proven otherwise by careful and
systematic investigation and analysis not premised on paranoid,
groundless nonsense such as mysterious generators of
"chemtrails."

I am quite open to _some_ so-called "angel's hair" (bad term,
poor scientific categorization) not being spider webs. But, Duh!
Show us the evidence and display some critical faculties in
demonstrating a clearcut difference between spider webs and the
alleged non-spider substancesence between spider
webs and the alleged non-spider substances.

  - Dick




_________________________________________________________________
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                      Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Young

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 19:26:47 EDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 08:16:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Young


 >From: John Novak <john@supremalex.org>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 15:07:05 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs

<snip>

 >Then there's the UFOs that we called, "high flyers", or ones
 >that appear to be at satellite altitude. These move mostly on
 >the north-south route, although we have video of some making
 >zig-zags and full stops.

John:

Were these hand-held or tripod-mounted video cameras?


Clear skies,

Bob Young








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                Re: Russians Wonder: Mummy Of ET Or Retarded

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 16:29:50 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 08:18:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Russians Wonder: Mummy Of ET Or Retarded


 >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 09:17:30 +0200
 >Subject: Russians Wonder: Mummy Of ET Or Retarded Child?

 >Source: Pravda.RU,

 >http://english.pravda.ru/main/2002/10/12/38068.html

 >Stig

 >***

 >16:50 2002-10-12

 >Archaeologists are puzzled who is the foundling: an
 >extraterrestrial or just a retarded child

Does anyone know where one can find photos or stills from the
alleged Russian film?

=====
Mac Tonnies (macbot@yahoo.com)

Transcelestial Ontology and Postmillennial Studies
http://mactonnies.com







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   Oct > Oct 15

                     Re: Jimmy Carter The Nobel Prize &

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 19:56:38 EDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 08:25:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Jimmy Carter The Nobel Prize &


 >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 22:29:30 +0000
 >Subject: Re: Jimmy Carter The Nobel Prize & Extraterrestrials

 >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 21:10:09 EDT
 >>Subject: Re: Jimmy Carter The Nobel Prize & Extraterrestrials

 >>>From: Grant Cameron <presidentialufo@presidency.com>
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 15:08:32 -0500
 >>>Subject: Jimmy Carter The Nobel Prize & Extraterrestrials

 >>>his sighting of a strange unidentified object in Leary, Georgia
 >>>in 1969.

<snip>

 >>This famous IFO was actually the planet Venus, as determined by
 >>Robert Sheaffer many years ago and published in The Humanist,
 >>July-August 1977, p. 46.

 >>The problem was that Carter was mistaken about the date
 >>when recounting it years later.  Sheaffer got to the bottom of it.

 >Bob,

 >Was it now? Absolutely and with great certainty? Although I
 >recognize that it _may_ have been Venus, anyone who believes
 >Robert Sheaffer is an accurate and reliable reporter of anything
 >hasn't done his homework. You cite him as an authoritative
 >source, not to be questioned.

Hi, Dick:

No, I cited his published report of his investigation, which
details how he obtained Carter's original written report, which
revealed the facts of the incident.  Venus was just where Carter
looked. This allowed Sheaffer to locate others who had been
there, but who didn't remember seeing anything out of the
ordinary.

I didn't just take Sheaffer's word for it, and I don't expect
you or other Listers to, which is why I provided the URL so that
they can judge for themselves.

 >Well now, at the (in)famous abduction conference at M.I.T. I
 >had just participated in a panel discussion on worldwide
 >abduction reports, and during a break Sheaffer aggressively
 >addressed me in the corridor asking, "If abduction cases are
 >real, why are they only reported in North America?" We had just
 >reviewed cases from all over the world!

What is the number of abduction claims/100,000 people, say, in
other countries of the world, compared to the US?  Or the number
of claims compared to UFO reports?  He may have a very valid
point, albeit overstated.

 >Some day I may publish my memoirs.

Why wait? Jim Moseley has just published his and, goodness
knows, the UFOlogy sure could use another belly laugh right now.


Clear skies,

Bob Young







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   Oct > Oct 15

                 Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Dittman

From: Geoff Dittman <gdittman@shaw.ca>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 04:55:08 +0300
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 08:54:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Dittman


 >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 16:08:37 +0000
 >Subject: Deaths Attributable To UFOs?

 >Speaking of.....

 >Has anyone done any research to determine whether people exposed
 >to close-range UFO sightings and physiological effects
 >subsequently died prematurely or showed overt symptoms of
 >radiation sickness like Betty Cash or other lethal effects?


Hi Dick:

I put up a website some time ago on cases involving injury and
death. The front page is located at:

http://www.geocities.com/area51/rampart/2653/sixthkind.html

It includes a short report, along with a datatable containing
the 300+ cases involving death or injury, and a bibliography of
the books I stole the cases from.

The vast majority of cases are of situations where the injury
was directly traceable to the sighting.

It would certainly be interesting to look into the long-term
health of experiencers, but I would imagine this would be near-
impossible to do. Hell, researchers have a hard enough time
proving the original encounter occurred in the first place, let
alone show some sort of cause and effect between a sighing at
one point in time and long-term health effects.








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   Oct > Oct 15

                  Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 02:11:15 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 08:57:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Velez


 >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 16:08:37 +0000
 >Subject: Deaths Attributable To UFOs?

 >Speaking of.....

 >Has anyone done any research to determine whether people exposed
 >to close-range UFO sightings and physiological effects
 >subsequently died prematurely or showed overt symptoms of
 >radiation sickness like Betty Cash or other lethal effects?

 >This is a potentially extremely important area of research.

 >I recently heard from the grandson and a daughter of a man who
 >was driving through Georgia on June 24, 1964, and his car was
 >buzzed repeatedly by a carousel or top-shaped UFO.

 >He got a strange substance on his arm and abnormal radioactivity
 >was detected on his car. (The case was investigated and reported
 >by NICAP at the time.) He was 47 at the time.

 >The sighting was quite shocking to him and he talked a lot about
 >it to his family.

 >I inquired about his manner of death and was told that he had a
 >heart attack in September 1965 and died in January 1966 as he
 >had just turned 49.

 >This is not a clear-cut case of cause and effect, but a lot more
 >study of this kind could provide some interesting data.


Hi Dick,

I watched a segment of the recently revived TV series
'Unexplained Mysteries' on the Sci-Fi channel. During a segment
about UFO abduction (Ghod! Who recruited that snake-oil salesman
Derrel Sims for this?) they cited a Brazilian case that was
presented by a local researcher, a woman, (sorry don't recall
her name,) about a human mutilation case that had occurred
there. I'll have to try to catch a re-run of the episode and
take careful notes.

Also, there is an animal case that is associated with a close-up
UFO encounter/abduction that fits the scenario you have
outlined. The Debbie Jordan case has an example of how a living
thing can be adversely affected by coming into close proximity
to a UFO. Debbie herself got sick, but no where near as bad as
her dog.

In the days and weeks following the encounter/abduction the
family's pet dog lost all of its fur in clumps, it developed
open, bleeding sores all over its body, it suffered from high
fevers and eventually expired. All within a very tight time
frame following the encounter/abduction.

All of the symptoms mentioned above can occur as a result of
exposure to poisonous radiation. I know it's not a 'human' case,
but it is a relevant and powerful example of the kind of
effect(s) you are talking about.

One more:

There was a 'Vallee' case where a man showed a 'burn' on his
abdomen. The mark was in the shape of a square grid. He
sustained the mark/injury as a result of getting in too close to
a UFO he was observing.

Interesting but scary avenue of inquiry. But one that should not
be ignored. In fact, these are the very cases that should be
cited when skeptics ask for cases involving possible physical
evidence for 'close encounter/contact phenomena.


Warm regards,

John Velez

Sign the International Petition to the United Nations
for disclosure of information pertaining to UFOs.

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition








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   Oct > Oct 15

              Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair' -

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 23:46:06 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 08:58:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair' -


 >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 22:39:35 +0000
 >Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'

 >>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'
 >>Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 11:59:44 -0700

 >>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 22:16:33 +0000
 >>>Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'

 ><snip>

 >>>What are "chemtrail sprayings?" Conjecture? Fantasy? Paranoid
 >>>imagination? You talk as if I should know and accept that
 >>>"chemtrail sprayings" are something real and established. If so,
 >>>where is the evidence, who is doing it, why, etc.?

 >>>Migrating spiders are a well-known and established fact of
 >>>nature.

 >>Yes but spiders don't seem to be the source for the angel hair
 >>material, so why not consider other possibilities. Just
 >>repeating spider web, spider web, spider web and ignoring the
 >>possible UFO connection is about as productive as James E's
 >>pelican, pelican, pelican.

 >>Does this look like spider web to you?

 >>http://www.neverland.net/bati/english/eovni.htm

 >Ed,

 >Short answer, yes. Until proven otherwise by careful and
 >systematic investigation and analysis not premised on paranoid,
 >groundless nonsense such as mysterious generators of
 >"chemtrails."

 >I am quite open to _some_ so-called "angel's hair" (bad term,
 >poor scientific categorization) not being spider webs. But, Duh!
 >Show us the evidence and display some critical faculties in
 >demonstrating a clearcut difference between spider webs and the
 >alleged non-spider substancesence between spider
 >webs and the alleged non-spider substances.

 >- Dick


Hello Ed, Dick, all:

All sorts if arthropods produce silk, web, spin cocoons etc. The
silkworm (actually an insect larva if I have that right, and not
a true worm ) is prized for the strength and length of its
fibers.

Here where I live, there is some specie of moth that bloom out
every 7, 11 or maybe 13 years... I cannot recall which. Their
larva eat all the leaves off the oak trees (which somehow
survive for centuries anyhow), then lower themselves to the
ground on a single strand of silk that might be as much as 50
feet long.

Feel free to call it "angel hair", I call it disgusting, and
there is no small amount of it in banner years when conditions
are just right (I mean wrong). You would not have wanted to walk
around my back yard in 1958 for example.

The single class of insects alone accounts for more species on
Earth than all other phyla, classes and orders of animal life,
if I have that right. There might be 20 different orders of
insects within their class. No biologist could ever know for
sure, there could be literally millions of insect species, many
or most of them yet to be discovered!

The origins of "angel hair" may not be spiders in many or most
cases, I agree. Still, I'd put my money on the arthropods, which
include insects and spiders both .. plus some other creepy
crawlies.

I think that's a far safer bet, by orders of magnitude, than say
excess UFO emissions, or chemtrails intersecting the flight
paths of rods etc.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch

PS: Check your window screens.







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   Oct > Oct 15

               Re: Re: EMBLA 2002 - Hessdalen Optical & Ground

From: Massimo Teodorani <mteodorani@ira.cnr.it>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 11:06:54 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:03:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Re: EMBLA 2002 - Hessdalen Optical & Ground

[Non-Sunscriber Post]


 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 13:19:10 -0400
 >Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 19:23:35 -0400
 >Subject: Re: EMBLA 2002 - Hessdalen Optical & Ground Survey

Dear Dr. Maccabee,

I am trying to answer extensively to your questions. Excuse me
for the delay of my answer but in this period I have not much
time to answer to messages, because of my research on water
exoplanets here at CNR, on which, expecially lastly, I am
devoting 95% of my time.

 >However, the paper has its problems (including some use of
 >English which makes it difficult to understand).

It may be that my English comes from the Rubycon river and not
from the Missisippi river. Excuse me for that, anyway.

Your criticism deals with concepts wich are correct only in
general, but I am afraid that they are not pertinent to my
paper.

Therefore I think that your "lesson of optics" will be surely
useful to many scholars, but I also see that such a lesson has
very little to do with my data and the way in which I processed
them. My impression is that you didn't read my paper carefully,
or maybe, it is possible that you didn't catch some basic
aspects of my description probably because of my not-american
english, or because I didn't use the right words: excuse me for
that.

I try to explain more now, by trying to answer punctually to
your notes.

 >I do not think they have correctly estimated the power level
 >that is radiated. They have treated the image size as if were
 >geometrically related to the actual object size while not taking
 >into account the image growth caused by brightness. For example
 >a dim light 10 cm in diameter will make an image of a certain
 >size in on optical system. The size will be close to that.

First of all, the parameter "radius" doesn't enter in the way in
which the power level was estimated: the calculation is done by
relating the measured flux and distance (L = 4 PI d^2 x F). The
parameter "radius" is only explicitly present inside the Stefan-
Boltzmann law, but this has nothing to do with the derivation of
absolute luminosity from observed values.

Secondly, the most important lights were not saturated at all,
with the exception of some streetlights and one "light-flash".
The image growth is not considered as a real "dimension", like
you say. Like in astronomy, the photons have been counted inside
a circle containing the light-phenomenon. Only the photons are
considered, and not the dimensions of the image, when spherical-
shaped lights were taken into account. The dimension which you
mean (regarding my paper) is another one: and I will speak of it
later in this message.

I am afraid there was a misunderstanding here....

 >Now suppose this light source becomes very bright. The image
 >made will grow in size, perhaps doubling or tripling or more.
 >The growth of image size with brightness is well known by
 >astonomers who realize that no star is large or close enough to
 >form a resolved image; each star is a "point" source.

It is not so necessary that you remind to me what happens with a
star. Most of all, a stellar image is enlarged because of
several mechanisms, the first of which is the "seeing disk"
depending on atmospheric turbulence and transparency. A bad
seeing (namely: 3-5 arcseconds) enlarges the star image in such
a way that if ones tries to resolve two close stars (like in the
case of the nuclei of globular clusters) this becomes
practically impossible. But if the star is well separated from
another one, in spite of the apparent dimension enlarged by the
seeing, we can anyway count the photons inside that circle and
derive the flux. In spite of bad effects due to a bad seeing we
can anyway measure the flux emitted by the star, if the image is
not saturated (namely: affected by over-exposure). And dimension
is of zero importance to us, unless we want to resolve a
concentration of stars: we solve this specific situation by
using the HST telescope (where the image is only diffraction
limited and not affected by the atmospheric seeing) or by
applying techniques of "adaptive optics" in order to eliminate
the effect of seeing from ground based telescopes. In such a
case we are more able to distinguish a star from another for a
more precise photometry. But if you have only one isolated star,
what is of interest to us is just one thing: the emitted
photons, which in this case (if no image saturation occurs), are
distributed in a larger disk.

The same procedure was applied to the Hessdalen lights, the very
most part of which fortunately are: 1) unsaturated, 2) isolated,
3) very well resolved in the case of a cluster of lights.

 >They have relied on the point spread function of an image PSF to
 >estimate the size and shape of the object itself.

Absolutely not the size!!! We have relied on the PSF only to
study just ITS shape: gaussian or not. From this it is possible
to derive not the shape but the type of the object itself. What
is important here is just the presence or absence of exponential
wings at the basewidth of the PSF. The top of the PSF is
obviously of zero importance.

 >However, this
 >PSF is also a function of brightness and it can be distorted by
 >excessive film exposure that saturates the film and makes a
 >"flat top" in the PSF curve.

There is no flat top in the PSF curve in Figures 1 and 2, if you
consider only the Hessdalen phenomenon. And anyway, apart from
saturation, a distortion due to "image growth" would result in
this case in a broadening of the FWHM (Full Width Half Maximum)
of the PSF, but absolutely not in the exponential feature of the
wings (if present) at the base of the PSF (this is what only
counts in our analysis).

 >They assume that a flat top PSF is
 >an indicator of a "real object of some size" that is being
 >geometrically imaged according to the above equation.

Absolutely not! We didn't say that at all. We do know that a
flat top is just a symptom of saturation, but in this case we
limit the analysis to the basewidth of the PSF, certainly not to
the flat top, and anyway we try to avoid any saturated image for
analysis.

If you had read more carefully the paper and if I had used an
american English (in spite of my rubyconic English: sorry),
you'd have noticed that the diagnosis regarding a non-plasma
object is not certainly based on the flat top of the PSF, but it
is based on the way in which the PSF goes to the top. Regarding
this, it happens that the trend of the PSF (exclude the flat
top, please), instead of being exponential as it should be
expected by a plasma-like object, sometimes goes in a semi-
rectlinear way. You will also notice that the variable character
of the exponential shape in the PSF can be likely attributed to
a variation of atmospheric transparency: in fact, when the air
is thin, the PSF of the lights is much more rectilinear than
exponential and this is not the behaviour of a plasma.

 >However,
 >as just pointed out, the flat top could simply be a result of
 >overexposure caused by an object too small to resolve ("point"
 >source) that is very bright.

The flat top is _simply_a_result_ of pure over-exposure, and
this specific feature has zero importance in our analysis, of
course.

 >Note operational definitions:

 >The Hessdalen images _could_ have been made by
 >very bright "point" sources, i.e., sources that might be cm in
 >size and can't be resolved by the optical systems that were used
 >since the distance was like 9000 m (or more).

What you are saying is absolutely not the case with our data !

The dimension is not at all the one you mean. The point here is
that the "concept of dimension" in the specific case of our
Hessdalen paper is not absolutely related to the dimension of a
single light-orb, but to the dimension acquired by a complex of
several light balls which are clustered together. We were lucky
to catch (photographically this year) this configuration while
it appeared just near the trees: as you can see, if you unite
the first and the last light-orb of the cluster (Fig. 2), the
total dimension is not less than several meters (by using the
trees as reference points). This is just the point of the entire
controversy which you raised, but which doesn't exist. The
reason why the Hessdalen lights increase in luminosity is due
only to the following fact: when the light is dim we just see
only one single orb (what is the dimension of such an orb is of
zero importance here: with or without image growth due to
exposure), when the light is very luminous we see several of
these light orbs which cluster together. If then you imagine to
look by eye at this light-cluster from far away, you will not be
able to resolve it at all but you will only see the luminosity
increasing a lot. It is the increase of the radius (of the
light-cluster and not of the single spheres) which creates a
luminosity increase in this specific case. This is a basic point
in order to understand each other. This was seen very well this
year, but it was seen the previous year too. Last year (2001) in
particular we analyzed many single frames from a CCD
videocamera: in a more recent phase we measured two parameters
(Fig. 5): a) the photon emission, b) the dimension. What is
important here is the definition of dimension! Apart from the
fact that noone of those frames was saturated (if so it would
have been rejected), the dimension which we considered IS NOT
given by the diameter of a light-ball, but IS GIVEN by the
diameter of a cluster of (very well resolved) light-balls which
is more or less large. In few words, these lights turn from a
single mode to a multiple mode: this is the only cause of
luminosity increase. There is no inflation of single light
balls, but only an increase of apparent dimensions due to the
sudden apparition of several light-orbs around a barycenter.
This can be seen very well in single frames, where the multiple
components are easily resolved.

 >I think they overestimated the power that was radiated.

I clearly and objectively disagree with you for all the reasons
above.

 >The spectrum they present is made up of three nearly
 >disconnected ranges of optical power (energy), a red range, a
 >green range and a blue range (range = bandwidth in microns of
 >wavelength, for example) This is comparable to the "Bubba"
 >spectrum recorded in Gulf Breeze in Feb. 1992, which, however,
 >had much more red (it was a red-appearing light) than any other
 >color.

 >http://brumac.8k.com/GulfBreeze/Bubba/GBBUBBA.html

 >scrolln down to the comparison of the UFO spectrum with a flare
 >spectrum).

That is very interesting, and the general article interesting as
well. But I think that the best way to evaluate more
quantitatively a spectrum is the one in which you see a spectrum
which is wavelength-calibrated and plotted as countings vs.
wavelength axis. In such a case analysis is more appropriate. In
nature there are spectral lines of particular chemical elements
which are characterized by a lot of multiplets all present
together. I can experimentally confirm (as a test) that if you
use (like in your and my case) a low-resolution grating the
spectral lines of specifical elements (if they are the real
cause of a feature) inexorably blend together by forming an
unresolved "peak". I am not totally convinced that such kind of
spectra are due only to the continuum, even if a reliable
analysis is very difficult if resolution is low. I can
definitively confirm that in the case of "Ufo photos", the use
of low-dispersion gratings is of low or zero utility. Tests on
the field teach us that we are obliged to use high-resolution
spectroscopy in order to make real atomic physics on these
light-phenomena. If we cannot use such a technique (very
expensive), it is probably better to use interferential filters
than low-resolution spectroscopy. But the only way to obtain a
precise information on "Ufo spectra" is ONLY by using high
resolution spectroscopy (R = 10^4 or more). Unfortunately Ufo
spectra are not made of few hydrogen Balmer lines, which are
easily resolvable in targets such as Vega by using a simple low-
dispersion grating.

 >The Hessdalen analysis has shown that the light has
 >characteristics other than what would be expected for a plasma.
 >However, their analysis of the image growth, which they assume
 >to be "plasma growth", without color change is, in my opinion,
 >faulty because, as I pointed out above, image growth is a result
 >of brightness growth, not necessarily size growth. (They argued

What you say is obviously correct, but only in general. But it
is not pertaining at all the Hessdalen case and our paper in
particular. In this case there is a real growth of the
dimensions, which is caused by the sudden apparition of clusters
of very well resolvable light-balls: few balls make low
luminosity, many balls make high luminosity. The assumed
dimension IS NOT the dimension of a single light ball, but the
dimension of the entire light-cluster which increases with the
number of balls. There is no inflation of single "plasma balls".
And the light-balls do not definitely behave like a plasma for
the reason which are explained inside the paper.

In spite of this there is a way to explain these lights as due
to badly understood natural phenomena.

 >Their comments about the need for a well funded expedition are
 >right on the money (or lack of money).

Of course! But I see that the same situation occurs in USA too.

An opto-electronic platform would be highly recommended, but I
have strong (realistic) doubts that industries like Raytheon,
Signaalapparaten, Bofors, Marconi, Alenia, Thomson CSF, will
ever give such a system to civil scientists, or that military-
like systems will be allowed to be transported by civil
scientists wherever they need: I already know that the US
government prevents his citizens to bring abroad IR systems (for
instance) because they are considered of military use. But an
optronic mobile station is just THE ONLY WAY to make a real
scientific study of these light-phenomena, but the rules
(totally decided and dictated by the military, the US ones in
particular, and their agreements with military industry) are so
that "civil science" is kept apart from this study. The reason
why the Ufo problem has not been scientifically solved yet is
due ONLY to the fact that the best instruments for it are of
military type and that the military publish nothing except for
classified internal reports. I do not think that the military
hide anything special or peculiar regarding extraterrestrials, I
do believe, on the contrary, that the only things they hide are
just two: 1) their non-interest to do science in these things
and to divulge it to citizens, 2) their current applied
experiments (or "skunk-works"), 90% of which (I believe) are the
causes of Ufos seen in the skies.

I am strongly convinced, even if I cannot demonstrate it yet,
that in several places of the world (at least 35: from my
archive) a mysterious _probably_natural_ phenomenon is occurring
more or less constantly and that those areas are more or less
constantly used by the military of your country in order to make
flight-tests of new kind of aeromobiles. The strategy of the
military is only one and very simple (and probably illegal):
they choose areas of the world in which strange light-phenomena
appear very often, and then they just mimic their skunk works
there, in order to make anyone believe that Earth is visited by
ET. Instead, they only want to hide their experiments by making
a very well calculated mimicry. The myth of ETs has been
constructed by the military in order to hide their actions. On
the abduction side, I do think (like Helmut Lammer and his MILAB
theory) that a test is ongoing with genetic engineering and with
the implants of biochips: everyone must think it is due to
ET.... And if some Hopkins or Mack write books on "hybridation
procedures by ETs" that is surely well accepted by the military.

It may be that ET is really here (they should have been visiting
us at least 10000 times during our civilization), but I do
believe that this occurrence might regard 1/1000 of the UFO
cases, or less. All the rest is due to an untransparent
behaviour of the military, your ones in particular. I cannot
demonstrate it yet of course, but I challenge anyone to
demonstrate the contrary of it to me, including those ones who
virus-attacked me at least 100 times during the last 72 hours.

 >I look forward to reading further reports on the Hessdalen
 >research.

My strong advice is that you go to Hessdalen and make yourself
your own measurements. Then I look foreward reading your own
report.

Sincerely Yours

Massimo Teodorani

===========================
Massimo Teodorani, Ph.D.
Astrophysicist - CNR Researcher
CNR - Istituto di Radioastronomia
Radiotelescopi di Medicina
Web page: http://www.ira.cnr.it/
Via Fiorentina Aia Cavicchio
40060 - Villafontana
Bologna - ITALY
Tel. (work): +39-051-6965811
Fax (work): +39-051-6965810
Tel. (private I): +39-0541-948406
Tel. (private II): +39-051-494323
Mobile: +39-340-2214511
E-mail (work): mteodorani@ira.cnr.it
E-mail (private): mteodorani@libero.it
===========================








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   Oct > Oct 15

                        Re: Crisis At CUFOS - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 06:30:29 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:06:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Crisis At CUFOS - Kaeser


 >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 16:59:31 EDT
 >Subject: Re: Crisis At CUFOS
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net

 >>From: William E Jones <jonesw@BATTELLE.ORG>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 09:01:42 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: Crisis At CUFOS

 ><snip>

 >>Or in the alternative, if a large number of more
 >>normal folks (like me) would each donate smaller amounts of
 >>funds, the result would be the same. If a sufficient amount of
 >>funding becomes available, a trust fund could be set up for the
 >>Center that could help pay the overhead bills. Sufficient
 >>funding for a trust fund could make the funding problem go away
 >>for good. Is there someone out there that any of you know who
 >>might be interested in helping with this? Please think about it.
 >>To survive in its current form, the Center needs help soon,
 >>certainly within the next two months or so.

 >Why doesn't CUFOS make it "easier" for people to pay them for
 >various things. For example why not be able to take credit card
 >transactions on line? Pay for orders on line. Perhaps setup
 >paypal or something like that.


Robert-

Unfortunately, I fear that the issues and problems facing CUFOS
(and the other major US research groups) isn't going to be
resolved by a few more orders or a simpler method of making
payments.

It's a great idea, but comes with additional paperwork as well
as greater demands on the rest of your production/delivery
system. All of these organizations are primarily run by
volunteers with other jobs to contend with, and the profit made
from the sale of material (to a very specialized audience) is
very limited.

Steve








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                    Dave Furlotte's SDI 210 'Take On It'

From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net>
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 18:18:45 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 11:04:41 -0400
Subject: Dave Furlotte's SDI 210 'Take On It'


At the start of October 12-13's Strange Days Indeed, Dave
Furlotte's editorial included the statement that the Internet is
basically a repository of opinion.

See:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/sdi/program/furlotte/sdi210.html

While there is indeed lots of opinion there, there are also many
factual posts as well.  What I mean by factual posts are:

- Excerpts or entire posts from 'mainstream' sources when
   accompanied by bibliographic data and cites,

- First person reports of events, which are due the same respect
   as any witness in court until proven otherwise

The Internet, and the little-censored shortwave broadcast
networks, are every bit as capable of delivering factual
information as are dusty volumes on a law library shelf.
Furthermore, the Internet and the shortwave broadcast networks
are the _only_ places where those with legitimate, even crucial,
causes can get their message published.

Like the existence of UFOs and their corresponding technology,
and the disparaging treatment of UFO abductees by the medical
and scientific communities.

Since Stephen Bassett's sad experiences with the mainstream
media show how utterly corrupt the mainstream media has become,
the Internet, together with the shortwave broadcast networks and
the rare lights in the enveloping darkness like SDI and weekend
Nighside on CFRB, have now replaced the mainstream media as
watchdogs against the gathering (often) government crime and
institutional corruption.

This is clearly one case where Dave's "take on it" is totally
misplaced.


Eleanor White







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               Re: Strieber's Memory Fails In Hale-Bopp Tale -

From: Dave Haith <visions@ntlworld.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 23:56:06 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 11:06:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Strieber's Memory Fails In Hale-Bopp Tale -


 >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>)
 >To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers -
 >Date: Saturday, October 12, 2002 5:32 AM
 >Subject: Strieber's Memory Fails In Hale-Bopp Tale

 >Source: Rense.com

 >http://rense.com/general30/stmem.htm

 >Strieber's Memory Conveniently
 >Fails Him In Hale-Bopp Tale
 >10-11-2

 >Text from Whitley Strieber's 'Journal'... an egregious corruption
 >of reality:

 >[See: http://www.unknowncountry.com/journal/  ]

<snip>

Whitley Strieber has commented on the recent post to UFO UpDates
re. the Rense story on Hale Bopp.

His e-mail to me - which he's happy to be posted to this List -
is below.

Cheers,

Dave Haith

-----

From: Whitley Strieber

The fact remains that the object was real from the beginning to
the end of the Hale-Bopp transit, which was acknowledged by
astronomers prior to Courtney Brown's claiming that it was a
gigantic space craft. After that Art Bell show the entire
astronomical community, worldwide, denied its existence,
contributing to the confusion and adding an atmosphere of
conspiracy to the whole affair. The ONLY THING that was fake
about it was the digital photo which Mr. Brown mailed to me and
Art Bell.

When I was on the air with Mr. Brown and he made his claim, I
said, fine, if they're out there let's try to contact them
telepathically. Why not? I'm an abductee. I've seen this,
experienced it. I know that it's real. But I never claimed that
they actually were there, nor did I make the faintest claim that
the effort at contact worked. I did and said nothing
irresponsible.

When I opened the email of the supposed photo, I was immediately
suspicious because a circle had been drawn digitally around the
object. Mr. Brown told me that he had done this to make sure I
would be able to tell what was what. But it was perfectly
obvious. The problem was that this meant that I could not
determine if the object was a digital insertion, which it turned
out to be.

About a week after receiving the email, I was talking to Art,
and we discovered by accident that his copy of the photo had not
had a circle drawn in it. We immediately published both photos
on our websites. Shortly thereafter, the University of Hawaii
told Art that the photo was theirs, a doctored image. We went on
the air shortly thereafter.

I was unaware at that time of any involvement on the part of Mr.
Rense and his colleague. I never talked to them about it. I saw
no stories about their involvement. Indeed, when I read this
statement of theirs, it was news to me.

Here is the story we ran about the Hale-Bopp object:

http://www.unknowncountry.com/news/?id=36








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   Oct > Oct 15

                    Dave Furlotte's SDI 210 'Take On It'

From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net>
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 18:18:45 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 08:02:36 -0400
Subject: Dave Furlotte's SDI 210 'Take On It'


At the start of October 12-13's Strange Days Indeed, Dave
Furlotte's editorial included the statement that the Internet is
basically a repository of opinion.

See:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/sdi/program/furlotte/sdi210.html

While there is indeed lots of opinion there, there are also many
factual posts as well.  What I mean by factual posts are:

- Excerpts or entire posts from 'mainstream' sources when
   accompanied by bibliographic data and cites,

- First person reports of events, which are due the same respect
   as any witness in court until proven otherwise

The Internet, and the little-censored shortwave broadcast
networks, are every bit as capable of delivering factual
information as are dusty volumes on a law library shelf.
Furthermore, the Internet and the shortwave broadcast networks
are the _only_ places where those with legitimate, even crucial,
causes can get their message published.

Like the existence of UFOs and their corresponding technology,
and the disparaging treatment of UFO abductees by the medical
and scientific communities.

Since Stephen Bassett's sad experiences with the mainstream
media show how utterly corrupt the mainstream media has become,
the Internet, together with the shortwave broadcast networks and
the rare lights in the enveloping darkness like SDI and weekend
Nighside on CFRB, have now replaced the mainstream media as
watchdogs against the gathering (often) government crime and
institutional corruption.

This is clearly one case where Dave's "take on it" is totally
misplaced.


Eleanor White








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   Oct > Oct 15

               Re: Strieber's Memory Fails In Hale-Bopp Tale -

From: Dave Haith <visions@ntlworld.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 23:56:06 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 08:09:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Strieber's Memory Fails In Hale-Bopp Tale -


 >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>)
 >To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers -
 >Date: Saturday, October 12, 2002 5:32 AM
 >Subject: Strieber's Memory Fails In Hale-Bopp Tale

 >Source: Rense.com

 >http://rense.com/general30/stmem.htm

 >Strieber's Memory Conveniently
 >Fails Him In Hale-Bopp Tale
 >10-11-2

 >Text from Whitley Strieber's 'Journal'... an egregious corruption
 >of reality:

 >[See: http://www.unknowncountry.com/journal/  ]

<snip>

Whitley Strieber has commented on the recent post to UFO UpDates
re. the Rense story on Hale Bopp.

His e-mail to me - which he's happy to be posted to this List -
is below.

Cheers,

Dave Haith

-----

From: Whitley Strieber

The fact remains that the object was real from the beginning to
the end of the Hale-Bopp transit, which was acknowledged by
astronomers prior to Courtney Brown's claiming that it was a
gigantic space craft. After that Art Bell show the entire
astronomical community, worldwide, denied its existence,
contributing to the confusion and adding an atmosphere of
conspiracy to the whole affair. The ONLY THING that was fake
about it was the digital photo which Mr. Brown mailed to me and
Art Bell.

When I was on the air with Mr. Brown and he made his claim, I
said, fine, if they're out there let's try to contact them
telepathically. Why not? I'm an abductee. I've seen this,
experienced it. I know that it's real. But I never claimed that
they actually were there, nor did I make the faintest claim that
the effort at contact worked. I did and said nothing
irresponsible.

When I opened the email of the supposed photo, I was immediately
suspicious because a circle had been drawn digitally around the
object. Mr. Brown told me that he had done this to make sure I
would be able to tell what was what. But it was perfectly
obvious. The problem was that this meant that I could not
determine if the object was a digital insertion, which it turned
out to be.

About a week after receiving the email, I was talking to Art,
and we discovered by accident that his copy of the photo had not
had a circle drawn in it. We immediately published both photos
on our websites. Shortly thereafter, the University of Hawaii
told Art that the photo was theirs, a doctored image. We went on
the air shortly thereafter.

I was unaware at that time of any involvement on the part of Mr.
Rense and his colleague. I never talked to them about it. I saw
no stories about their involvement. Indeed, when I read this
statement of theirs, it was news to me.

Here is the story we ran about the Hale-Bopp object:

http://www.unknowncountry.com/news/?id=36









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   Oct > Oct 16

                        Re: Math vs. Moore - Fleming

From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 08:00:10 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:41:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Math vs. Moore - Fleming


 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 22:00:59 EDT
 >Subject: Re: Math vs. Moore

<snip>

 >I'm quite impressed with all of this, but for one thing. I have
 >noticed that you have conveniently ignored, in detail, Tim
 >Printy's analysis. I suppose that he is guilty of perpetrating a
 >scientific fraud, too?


I'm quite impressed with the silliness of the above accusation.
I did not ignore Printy's analysis "in detail." To the contrary,
I included a copy of a data table from Printy's article in my
first email on this subject and showed why his interpretation of
it was just plain wrong -- in detail. David Rudiak followed up
with an even more detailed example of altitude data showing how
Printy's interpretation led to the violation of the assumptions
on which the data was based. I notice that there has been no
"skeptical" response to that one.

The old saying is that "the devil is in the details." It looks
to me like it's the so-called "skeptics" who are running from
discussion of the details as if the devil were after them.
Hurling ridiculous accusations isn't very effective as a smoke
screen to hide the panicked retreat.








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   Oct > Oct 16

                 Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Rosales

From: Albert Rosales <Garuda79@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:16:22 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:43:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Rosales


Hello everyone, in reference to deaths associated to UFO
incidents I found this case, which has an inderect connection:

Santa Rita, Venezuela
October 6 1961        night

A huge lighted object flew at very low altitude over the city of
Santa Rita, apparently its brilliance illuminated the entire
city. It then flew slowly towards Lake Maracaibo causing
considerable panic among the local fishermen. Many of them dived
into the water in a state of panic, one man, Bartolome Romero
drowned as a result of the panic.


Albert






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                            Spanish Space Museum

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:30:01 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:45:56 -0400
Subject: Spanish Space Museum


SOURCE: S.I.B. Betelgeuse (Spain)
DATE: October 14, 2002

Projected Spanish Space Museum Initiative is Underway

The initiative toward establishing a Spanish Space Museum (MEE-
  Museo Espanol del Espacio) has produced a number of cultural
activities to be held in the last quarter of 2002 related to
space exploration.

If there are no last minute delays, the space shuttle Endeavor
shall be launched on November 3rd on a mission to the
International Space Station. Crewmembers shall include Madrid
native Miguel L=F3pez-Alegr=EDa, who is making his third journey
into space. NASA has green-lighted the Spanish astronaut's
initiative to bring along a proposal to spearhead the creation
of the Spanish Space Museum on the STS-113 mission.


vuelo al espacio. La NASA ha dado luz verde a la iniciativa del
astronauta espa=F1ol de llevar en la mision STS-113 un documento
para impulsar la creaci=F3n del Museo Espanol del Espacio.

For more information:

http://www.astrored.net/museo-espacial

"Ultimas Noticias" section


The MEE project has created a mailing list aimed at promoting an
exchange of information regarding space-related topics in the
Spanish-speaking community. By means of this list, members will
be able to exchange data on the various  space missions. This
new mailing list will likewise furnish infromation on the
progress of activities related to the MEE initiative.

"Exploradores del Espacio" (space explorers) is the title of the
new exposition being prepared within the framework of the MEE
initiative. It is an updated version of the latest expo created,
"2001: La Odisea de la Humanidad", which was highly successful,
beating the record of  all exposition visits at Casa de la
Cultura de Chiclana de la Frontera, the site where the exhibit
was located in July-August 2001. The storyline will range from
mythological references to future manned exploration of the
planet Mars,. stressing activities developed by our country in
this area of endeavor. Any organization interested in sponsoring
the event or providing materials on their activities in this
field can contact the MEE initiative's promoter at the following
addresses:

Oscar A. Rodr=EDguez Baquero
E-mail: museo-espacial@arrakis.es
Phone: (+34) 649.316.961
Mail address: Apartado de Correos 2763, E-11080 CADIZ (ESPANA)

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Translation (C) 2002 Institute of Hispanic Ufology
Special thanks to Oscar A. Rodriguez.








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                  Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Young

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 10:53:18 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:47:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Young


 >From: Geoff Dittman <gdittman@shaw.ca>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 04:55:08 +0300
 >Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs?

<snip>

 >I put up a website some time ago on cases involving injury and
 >death. The front page is located at:

 >http://www.geocities.com/area51/rampart/2653/sixthkind.html

<snip>

 >The vast majority of cases are of situations where the injury
 >was directly traceable to the sighting.

Geoff:

This is an interesting list and I admire your effort. You have
made a breathtaking claim, here. Can we take it that you have
positively identified the cause of the UFOs in the vast majority
of these incidents?


Clear skies,

Bob Young







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   Oct > Oct 16

                       Rusty's 'Angel Hair' Lab Report

From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 10:37:26 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:50:25 -0400
Subject: Rusty's 'Angel Hair' Lab Report


Analysis of 'Angel Hair' Deposited in Burlington, West Virginia
(September 19, 2000)

On September 21, 2000, Retha Rutherford (aka 'Rusty') found a
white material in patches around her yard. Rusty collected
samples, took pictures of the material and sent the samples and
photographs to Frontier Analysis, Ltd. for analysis.

Rusty posted the story of her discovery and photographs of the
white material found in her yard on her web site indicating the
white material did not look like spider webs and may be
connected to the "droning" sound she heard the night before. On
E-mail lists Rusty indicated her belief that the white material
may be related to what she believed to be "chemtrail spraying".

Rusty very kindly offered to send a copy of the lab report to
anyone who requested a copy, which I did. Rusty promptly sent me
a copy of the lab report (free of charge). Rusty further posted
the lab report on her web site but removed it soon afterwards.
On E-lists, Rusty later admitted the report indicated the white
material she found in her yard was similar to silk made by
insects and caterpillars but only quoted those sections of the
report which made her discovery seem more mysterious.

Rusty's claims were reported in UFO Roundup (Vol. 5, No. 39,
Sept. 28, 2000), Filer's Files #39 (Oct. 5, 2000), on the Jeff
Rense web site (where I commented that the material resembled
silk created by tent caterpillars which Rusty emphatically
denied), was discussed on Strange Days Program #100, appeared on
various E-mail lists and Rusty's original story remains posted
on her web site unaltered to this day. The discovery of this
material, still labeled as "angel hair", remains posted all over
the internet minus the lab results that indicated the material
appeared to be silk from an insect rather than "angel hair".

To balance the information available about the materials found
in Rusty's yard, I have scanned the lab report performed by
Frontier Analysis. Ltd. and placed it in the Vanguard Archives
(part of Vanguard Research) at:

http://vanguardarchives.home.attbi.com/

On page 3 of the lab report, P. A. Budinger, who lists a title
of "Analytical Scientist", states, "The fibrous material
compares to that from "angel hair" falls in Los Gatos,
California (October 19-20, 1977)2, Sacramento, California
(November 11, 1999)3, and Burns, Oregon (November 4, 1999)4
which were also analyzed by this laboratory." Researchers
studying "angel hair" reports might want to include this
information in reference to "angel hair" falls that may have
been reported in those areas on those dates and locate the
analysis reports performed by Frontier Analysis, Ltd. for a more
accurate evaluation of said materials and claims. The report
also includes an interesting comparison of the analysis of these
four "angel hair" drops.

Thanks to Rusty and Frontier Analysis, Ltd. for making this report
available.

A. Hebert, M.Ed.
Vanguard Research







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                       17th Century English Contactee?

From: David  Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 16:38:28 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:52:35 -0400
Subject: 17th Century English Contactee?


Source: The Guardian, London

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,812103,00.html

15 October 2002

Mystic's 350-year-old treatise to be published

by John Ezard

Nearly 350 years ago the leading Christian mystic Thomas
Traherne wrote a treatise in which he imagined a spaceman or
alien visiting the Earth and becoming enchanted by its fresh
winds and green meadows.

"Such strange kinds of creatures," the visitor exclaims, "Such
mysteries and varieties, such never-heard-of colours, such
odoriferous and fragrant flowers.

"Verily, this star is a nest of angels - this little star, so
wide and so full of mysteries."

Traherne's words, which are regarded as astonishingly close in
tone to the rapture of astronauts during the Apollo space
missions 30 years ago, appear in print today in the Guardian for
the first time since he penned them.

His outburst of wonder, in a passage called The Celestial
Stranger, will be published in book form for the first time next
week after being lost since the mid-17th century.

It was found recently, with four other new prose works, among
anonymous manuscripts in Lambeth Palace library, by a Cambridge
don who was sheltering from the rain.

The Celestial Stranger is part of a 42-chapter treatise entitled
The Kingdom of God. The previously unknown manuscripts,
totalling some 450 pages, would be expected to reach a high six-
figure sum if ever sold at auction.

Traherne, a Herefordshire clergyman, died in 1674 aged 38. A
modern commentator has called him "one of the most radiantly,
infectiously happy mortals this earth has seen". He wrote in a
state of almost continuous religious rapture.

Denise Inge, the scholar who has included extracts from the new
manuscripts in an anthology of his poetry and prose, said
yesterday: "Traherne can turn your understanding inside out,
thrill, surprise and exhaust you.

"What he says about the beauty of the earth is very like what
the Apollo astronauts said about the beauty of the earliest
photographs of the Earth from space taken during the mission."

The discovery is the biggest find of Traherne papers for over
100 years. His reputation, as a near-equal of his great
contemporary religious writers John Donne, George Herbert and
Henry Vaughan, rests mainly on lost works which were
rediscovered by chance. The first find was his Centuries of
Meditation, discovered in London bookshop bargain baskets in
1896. Other volumes turned up on a Lancashire rubbish heap and
at a library in Washington, USA. The Lambeth Palace manuscripts
were found by Jeremy Maule, Fellow of Trinity College,
Cambridge, in 1997, two years before his death.

The library said it had a total of 4,000 manuscripts, a number
of them anonymously catalogued. "There may be other discoveries
waiting to be made."

The Celestial Stranger
(from The Kingdom of God)
Had a man been always in one of the stars, or confined to the
body of the flaming sun, or surrounded with nothing but pure
ether, at vast and prodigious distances from the Earth,
acquainted with nothing but the azure sky and face of heaven,
little could he dream of any treasures hidden in that azure veil
afar off.

Should he be let down on a sudden and see the sea, and the
effects of those influences he never dreamed of... such strange
kind of creatures, such mysteries and varieties, such never-
heard of colours, such a new and lively green in the meadows,
such odoriferous and fragrant flowers, such reviving and
refreshing winds, it would make him cry out: "How blessed are
thy holy people, how divine, how highly exalted! Heaven itself
is under their feet! The Earth seems to swell with pride that it
bears them all; all its treasures laugh and sing to serve them.
"Verily this star is a nest of angels! This little star so wide
and so full of mysteries! So capacious and full of territories,
containing innumerable repositories of delight when we draw
near! Who would have expected, and who could have hoped for,
such enjoyments?"


Thomas Traherne: poetry and prose (SPCK, =A312.99) is published
on October 18.








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   Oct > Oct 16

                       Re: Angel Hair Links - Gehrman

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 08:52:40 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 11:06:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Angel Hair Links - Gehrman


 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 18:28:57 EDT
 >Subject: Re: Angel Hair Links

 >>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 11:16:11 -0700
 >>Subject: Re: Angel Hair Links

 ><snip>

 >>Angel hair falls are often accompanied by either a UFO sighting
 >>or a strange sound such as a drone or hum.

 >Hi, Ed, List:

 >Last week I was hiking on the North Rim of the Grand Canyon.
 >I live in a city and was struck by the utter silence, but for the
 >wind in the pines. It is never quiet at home.

Bob,

Yes, I understand; but what I'm talking about is "strange" as in
unusual. Here's an example:

"On the morning of September 21, 2000 Jane doe found white
fibrous "spider web" like material in her yard. It did not look
like the usual webs....when trying to collect the samples of the
stuff, it turned to a clear goo somewhat like 'the slimy stuff
you see when you cut okra'."

On the previous night at approximately 7:00 p.m. she heard a
loud droning sound similar to that of a large airplane....it
lasted an hour...the dog became ill."

Report on analysis of angel hair sample by P. A. Budinger


Ed









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                Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Stockstill

From: Bill Stockstill <size14d@bigfoot.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 11:58:50 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 11:09:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Stockstill


 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 02:11:15 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs?

<snip>

 >Hi Dick,

 >I watched a segment of the recently revived TV series
 >'Unexplained Mysteries' on the Sci-Fi channel. During a segment
 >about UFO abduction (Ghod! Who recruited that snake-oil salesman
 >Derrel Sims for this?) they cited a Brazilian case that was
 >presented by a local researcher, a woman, (sorry don't recall
 >her name,) about a human mutilation case that had occurred
 >there. I'll have to try to catch a re-run of the episode and
 >take careful notes.

<snip>



This website has graphic photos of the Brazilian case. Please be advised, I
work in the medical field and see trauma and death in an emergency setting
and these photos even took me aback. So, take it under advisement before
viewing, they are GRAPHIC and DISTURBING. There are links/info regarding
other human mutilation cases if you go back to the site's homepage.

Bill

http://usuarios.uninet.com.br/~mfpporto/Go%20Ahead%20CAUTIOUS%20ABOUT%20ETs.htm








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              Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair' -

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:32:18 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 11:12:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair' -


 >From: Frank Warren <frank-warren@pacbell.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 11:09:53 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'

 >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 22:16:33 +0000
 >>Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'

<snip>

 >>What are "chemtrail sprayings?" Conjecture? Fantasy? Paranoid
 >>imagination? You talk as if I should know and accept that
 >>chemtrail sprayings" are something real and established. If so,
 >>where is the evidence, who is doing it, why, etc.?

 >>Migrating spiders are a well-known and established fact of
 >>nature.

 >>"Chemtrail sprayings" insofar as I have read on the internet are
 >>only someone's rich imagination without one iota of empirical
 >>data. People see contrails that they don't think are normal
 >>contrails, but present zero convincing evidence for this
 >>conclusion.

 >>I am very serious about this: What are "chemtrail sprayings" and
 >>how do you know it?

<snip>

 >What "I" call "Chemtrails" is what comes from an aircraft that
 >does not fall into the above mentioned parameters. Omitting what
 >is on the internet, either pro or con, (Chemtrail or contrail)
 >what I have witnessed with my own eyes on several occasions is
 >jets, usually two, sometimes more flying back and forth making a
 >"perfect grid pattern" in the sky, seemingly much lower in
 >altitude then "normal airtraffic" and below what is the
 >necessary requirements to form a normal contrail. Having become
 >more interested in this phenomenon lately, I have been paying
 >close attention to what is flying overhead in our area
 >(Sacramento Ca.). Also, I had my first UFO sighting not to many
 >months ago (finally) and have kept an eye upward (more then
 >usual) ever since. With this in mind, and being aware of the
 >locations of the local airports and the "air-traffic" of
 >civilian, as well as military aircraft, one gets accustomed to
 >the "flight patterns" of the area. What I have witnessed does
 >not fall into the afore mentioned airflight patterns, and I
 >doubt that making a "perfect grid pattern" with what ever came
 >from the aircraft is a "random coincidence," although I'm sure
 >there are those who would suggest just that. Once the grid
 >pattern is formed the trails turn into "what looks like normal
 >clouds," and if one wasn't paying attention, one would think
 >that it was just a cloudy day. I have seen a bright sun shiny
 >day turn completely overcast from artificial means.

<snip>

For what it's worth, I have observed this phenomenon myself,
over my home in Glendale, AZ, although not to the degree that it
turned the sky overcast(!).  I observed low-altitude contrails
that criss- crossed in a "hatch" pattern. The trails seemed to
endure and hold their shape for a much longer period of time
than normal contrails. This was way before I had ever heard the
term "chemtrails."

==JJS==








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                          Secrecy News -- 10/15/02

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 12:35:19 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 11:14:51 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 10/15/02


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2002, Issue No. 101
October 15, 2002


**      ENERGY DEPT TELLS SCIENTISTS TO HUSH ON IRAQ
**      RESEARCHERS STYMIED BY SECRECY
**      DEFEATING INTERNET CENSORSHIP
**      CLARIFICATION ON PRIOR RESTRAINT


ENERGY DEPT TELLS SCIENTISTS TO HUSH ON IRAQ

Scientists at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory are under
orders from the Department of Energy to evade public inquiries
concerning Iraqi weapons of mass destruction, the threat of
catastrophic terrorism, and related issues.

"Respond with 'no comment' to all requests from the news media
or other non-governmental organizations," instructed Livermore
Lab Director Michael R. Anastasio in a September 13 memorandum
to the Lab's Associate Directors.

Even official requests for information from members of Congress,
their staffs, or other executive branch agencies are to be
deflected for "coordination" with the Department of Energy
Office of Intelligence.

"Many Laboratory employees are known by name or personally to
reporters, consultants, and Congressional staffers and thus may
receive direct inquiries," Dr. Anastasio wrote.  "Please caution
your employees to be vigilant in referring all such inquiries...
and to be rigorous in refraining from comment even in 'informal'
or 'confidential' situations."

The practical effect of the clampdown is to exclude Livermore
scientists from "uncoordinated" participation in unclassified
public discussion and debate over Iraqi nuclear weapons.  (They
are of course already precluded from disclosing classified
information.)

Yet the importance of such expert participation in public debate
was illustrated by the recent dispute over the significance of
Iraqi efforts to acquire 60,000 "high strength aluminum tubes."
  In an October 7 speech, President Bush cited the attempted
Iraqi purchase of the aluminum tubes as "evidence ... that Iraq
is reconstituting its nuclear weapons program."  That assertion
is rejected by many DOE scientists and other experts, who argue
that the tubes could have other, non-nuclear applications.

The text of the Anastasio memo, which was first reported by Dan
Stober in the September 25 San Jose Mercury News, is posted
here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/doe/iraq091302.html


RESEARCHERS STYMIED BY SECRECY

"Some scientists are running into a major post-Sept. 11
stumbling block: Federal restrictions have eliminated access to
information vital to their studies."

See "Researchers Stymied by Block on Government Documents" by
Rachel
Kipp, Associated Press, October 15:

http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/10/15/attacks.document.ap/


DEFEATING INTERNET CENSORSHIP

"Openness, transparency, and the unfettered flow of information
have always been the allies of freedom and democracy," said Sen.
Ron Wyden last week.  "Over time, nothing erodes oppression and
intolerance like the widespread dissemination of knowledge and
ideas."

Yet several countries persist in blocking unrestricted access by
their citizens to information on the Internet.

Sen. Wyden and Sen. Jon Kyl therefore introduced a bill "to
combat state-sponsored Internet jamming and persecution of
Internet users." The new bill, which matches similar legislation
introduced in the House by Reps. Christopher Cox and Tom Lantos,
was introduced on October 10.  See the sponsors' introductory
statements here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/2002/s3093.html


CLARIFICATION ON PRIOR RESTRAINT

Secrecy News reported imprecisely on October 11 that the 1979
injunction against publication of Howard Morland's Progressive
Magazine article on the H-Bomb "was the first time that the U.S.
government ever imposed prior restraint on a U.S. publication."

In US v. Progressive (467 F. Supp. 990 (W.D. Wis. 1979)), the
court did issue what it termed "the first... prior restraint
against a publication in this fashion in the history of this
country."

However, there were a number of previous attempts at prior
restraint, including most famously the temporary restraining
order imposed on the New York Times for two weeks in 1971
blocking publication of the Pentagon Papers.  (Thanks to KC.)

Until US v. Progressive, most cases of prior restraint that came
before a court were eventually overturned, as with the Pentagon
Papers.  In the Progressive case, the prior restraint that was
imposed by the court was mooted by the publication elsewhere of
similar material and so the highly unusual decision was never
tested on appeal.

For an introduction to prior restraint see, for example:

http://w3.trib.com/FACT/1st.priorrestraint.html

_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood@fas.org
voice:  (202) 454-4691







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             CCCRN News: 'Signs of Destiny' Conference - Tempe,

From: Paul Anderson <psa@look.ca>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 13:21:03 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 11:16:31 -0400
Subject: CCCRN News: 'Signs of Destiny' Conference - Tempe,


CCCRN NEWS
The E-News Service of the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network

http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada

October 15, 2002

_____________________________


'SIGNS OF DESTINY' CROP CIRCLE CONFERENCE - TEMPE, ARIZONA

  Signs of Destiny: Crop Circles and Sacred Geometry

Tempe, Arizona, USA, November 22-24, 2002

The first North American conference on the crop circle
phenomenon!

'Mystery on the Prairies: the Crop Circle Phenomenon in Canada'
will be presented by Paul Anderson, founder and director of the
Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, along with Nancy Talbott,
Linda Moulton Howe, Colin Andrews, Andreas Mueller, Francine
Blake, Mark Fussell, Stuart Dike, John Anthony West, Chet Snow,
Barbara Lamb, Drunvalo Melchizadek and Rod Bearcloud

Plus additional workshops and a special showing of the new
documentary film by William Gazecki, 'Crop Circles: Quest for
Truth'

Tempe Embassy Suites Hotel, 4440 Rural Road, Tempe, AZ
Friday, November 22 - Sunday, November 24, 2002
Advance ticket price of $250.00 by October 31; $300.00 November
1-18 (US $)
Presented by Dr. Chet Snow
For further information: 928.204.1962 (Dr. Chet Snow),
604.731.8522 (CCCRN)

http://www.chetsnow.com/signs.html

Also, for those in the area, the next Barclay Manor lecture in
Vancouver is coming up on October 28:

'Crop Circle Update 2002'
Barclay Manor, Vancouver, BC, October 28, 2002

A review of crop circle reports from Canada and around the world
in 2002, including the results of Crop Watch 2002. CCCRN gives
regular presentations for the Monday Night Free Lectures at
Barclay Manor, a beautiful historical house in the heart of
Vancouver's West End (part of the West End Community Centre).

Barclay Manor, 1447 Barclay Street, Vancouver, BC
Monday, October 28, 2002, 7:30 pm - 9:30 pm
Admission: free (call 604.257.8333 to pre-register; please book
ahead as seating is limited)
Presented by Barclay Manor / West End Community Centre
For further information: 604.731.8522 (CCCRN), 604.257.8349 (BM)

____________________________


CCCRN News is the e-news service of the Canadian Crop Circle
Research Network, providing e-mail updates with the latest news
and reports on the crop circle phenomenon in Canada, as well as
other information on CCCRN-related projects and events, sent
free to your e-mail.

To subscribe, send an e-mail with Subscribe CCCRN News
in the subject line to:
cccrnnews@look.ca

The Canadian Crop Circle Research Network is a non-profit
research organization which has been investigating and
documenting the crop circle phenomenon and other possibly
related phenomena in Canada since 1995, creating a liason
between researchers, farmers, the public, the media and
scientists in trying to solve this ongoing enigma.

Main Office

202 - 325 East 14th Avenue
Vancouver, BC V5T 2M9 Canada
Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522
Cell: 604.727.1454
E-Mail: psa@look.ca
Web: http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada

=A9 Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, 2002








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              Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair' -

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 10:28:56 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 11:20:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair' -


 >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 22:39:35 +0000
 >Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'

 >>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'
 >>Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 11:59:44 -0700

 >>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 22:16:33 +0000
 >>>Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'

 ><snip>

 >>>What are "chemtrail sprayings?" Conjecture? Fantasy? Paranoid
 >>>imagination? You talk as if I should know and accept that
 >>>"chemtrail sprayings" are something real and established. If so,
 >>>where is the evidence, who is doing it, why, etc.?

 >>>Migrating spiders are a well-known and established fact of
 >>>nature.

 >>Yes but spiders don't seem to be the source for the angel hair
 >>material, so why not consider other possibilities. Just
 >>repeating spider web, spider web, spider web and ignoring the
 >>possible UFO connection is about as productive as James E's
 >>pelican, pelican, pelican.

 >>Does this look like spider web to you?

 >>http://www.neverland.net/bati/english/eovni.htm

 >Short answer, yes. Until proven otherwise by careful and
 >systematic investigation and analysis

Dick and list,

But that's what I've been trying to explain to you. There has
been an attempt at sceintific analysis and investigation. The
sample I collected (11-9-01) was submitted to P.A Budinger, who
also had analized four previous samples.

These samples were from Burlington WV(9-21-2000),
Los Gatos, Ca (10-19-77), Sacramento Ca (11-11-99),
and Burns Or. (11-4-99).

Her analysis indicates that the material is not spider web, but
that " the fiber is close to that of silk made by insects and
caterpillars."

 >not premised on paranoid, groundless nonsense such as
 >mysterious generators of "chemtrails."

 >I am quite open to _some_ so-called "angel's hair" (bad term,
 >poor scientific categorization) not being spider webs.

See above. What is your specific evidence that any of this
material is spider web? Please cite.

Spiders and insects travel in the spring and autumn. We've all
seen this and the floating gossamer threads that give evidence
for this movement.

And Larry's observations are correct: there are strange seasonal
and yearly variations and an untold number of insects that make
silk like substances. These relationships with nature are well
known. Besides, I'm out in nature many hours, every day, rain,
snow or shine and I'm sensitive to what's going on around me.
The angel hair fall I experienced was unlike anything I'd ever
seen before. I'd read about angel hair and had studied pictures
of it, but nothing quite compares to the real experience: miles
and miles of fields and roadways covered with this strange,
sticky, gooey, substance. It wasn't spider web.


 >Show us the evidence and display some critical faculties in
 >demonstrating a clearcut difference between spider webs and the
 >alleged non-spider substancesence between spider
 >webs and the alleged non-spider substances.

You're the one asserting that this material is spider web. What
is your evidence? I will grant that the angel hair conglomerate
sometimes has baby spiders in it but it also contains many other
substances and chemicals. Perhaps we should focus on how all
these various substances accumulate and then disperse over very
large areas. And why do you seem to deny the witness testimony
that angel hair falls are often accompanied by observations of
UFO? This may be one UFO mystery that if we put our heads
together, we could solve.

I think a good place to start is Brian B's research:

http://www.ksinc.net/~devilsad/angelh.htm

Ed











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                       Book Review - 'Without Consent'

From: Philip Mantle <philip.mantle@eidosnet.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:00:44 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 11:24:17 -0400
Subject: Book Review - 'Without Consent'


BOOK REVIEW
Title: 'Without Consent'
Authors: Carl Nagaitis and Philip Mantle
Foreword: Nick Pope
ISBN: 1-903782-02-3
Price: =A39.99 (UK, overseas $22.00)
Reviewer: Brian Allan

This excellent and remarkable fair-minded book is one of the
very few presenting a comprehensive account of many alleged,
British, alien abductions that have occurred over the past fifty
years. I use the term fair-minded deliberately, because right
from the start the book makes it clear that there are several,
different, legitimate pinions held by researchers in the field
of Ufology. These range from the 'Extra Terrestrial Hypothesis'
(ETH) where UFOs are automatically assumed to originate from
other stars and planets, through the opinion that the
encountered are the result of environmental pollution to the
view that UFOs have been around in various forms throughout
recorded history. The only difference in this last
interpretation being that they were described as chariots,
ships, shields and other common symbols. This is described as
the 'Psychosocial Hypothesis' and is often assumed to by part of
what pioneering psychiatrist Carl Jung described as the
'Collective Unconscious'.

The book sets the scene by laying out some of the parameters
(including 'missing time', troubled recurring dreams, anomalous
marks on the body etc.) required for an event to be classified
as an abduction. It also makes the point that in many cases
abductees are loathe to come forward to share their experiences
due to a justified fear of derision, particularly in the UK. In
America however, this unwelcome response is almost always offset
by the opportunity to experience Andy Warhol's 'fifteen minutes
of fame' and the accompanying influx of money whether from film
and book deals or appearance money; as the book says, 'America
loves celebrities'.

One of the authors of this work Philip Mantle as a former
director of investigations for The British UFO Research
Organisation (BUFORA) is particularly well qualified to discuss
and comment on the various incidents described in the book
because he actually investigated many of the encounters. It is
also refreshing to see alternative explanations presented for
the bizarre encounters described by the various people involved.
Right from the start, each chapter contains one particular facet
of the abduction saga starting with 'basic' CEIV's (Close
Encounters of the Fourth Kind) or contact with the assumed ET
entities right through to truly surreal and fantastic happenings
that are classified (quite correctly) as 'high strangeness'. In
some ways the book acts as a 'do it yourself 'primer for anyone
who may care to evaluate possible abductions for themselves by
giving pointers to lookout for during an interview. For example,
is the witness on medication? Are they depressed or anxious? Do
they have obvious emotional problems? Are they attention
seeking? Although it is open for anyone to set up as an
investigator, it is not advisable to do so without some
reputable training, BUFORA runs an excellent postal course for
prospective investigators.

As well as presenting a range of actual cases, the book also
includes a chapter entitled, 'Is it All in The Mind?' which
examines the possibility that the events are purely subjective
and it might be more rewarding to examine the 'experiencer'
rather than the event. The authors draw the conclusion that
while this view may have some validity, in cases where there is
independent corroboration it is difficult to reconcile. Another
aspect of the multifaceted problem taken into account are the
ideas and opinions of researcher Albert Budden who attributes
many of the encounters to electrically induced neuro-
physiological and allergic reactions in the witnesses
themselves. While providing an apt explanation for many of the
factors experienced, this concept does not explain other aspects
of the phenomenon particularly where a third party is involved.

Common themes throughout this work are the repeated references
to the obvious sincerity of the witnesses. I have to admit, that
as a researcher into Ufology and the paranormal I have
encountered this many times. One of the cases cited in the book
is a truly classic encounter that emerged from Scotland, 'The
A70 Abduction'. As the representative of Strange Phenomena
Investigations (SPI) in Scotland I have personally re-
investigated this event and re-interviewed one of the two
protagonists, Garry Wood. I can vouch for one thing; this man is
utterly and totally sincere in his belief that he experienced an
alien abduction, about this there is absolutely no doubt
whatsoever.

It is in the last chapter entitled 'Stranger still' that the
truly bizarre encounters are revealed. Reports so genuinely
'unworldly' that one can only guess at their origin. While one
can hazard a guess at a possible extraterrestrial source of
their experiences, it is perhaps also possible that the
witnesses are experiencing some form of spiritual encounter in
an altered state of consciousness.

In conclusion, anyone seeking a fair, straightforward, open
minded and well-researched account of a difficult and extremely
complex subject they could do much worse than buy this book. I
recommend it as a valuable addition to the bookshelf of anyone
interested in the abduction phenomenon whether as a researcher
or casual reader.


This book can be ordered on-line at: www.beyondpublications.com
or on the telephone at: 0113 260 1133.



END






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                          Book Review - 'Awakening'

From: Philip Mantle <philip.mantle@eidosnet.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:00:44 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 11:25:06 -0400
Subject: Book Review - 'Awakening'


Book Review
Title:           'Awakening'
Author:          Mary Rodwell
Foreword:        Dr Roger Leir
Publisher:       Future Books Ltd.
Price:           =A39.99 (UK, overseas $22.00)
ISBN:            1-903782-03-1
Reviewer:        Brian Allan

The subject of alien abduction is a multifaceted minefield for
both the experiencer and whoever is attempting to assist or
comfort the person afflicted with this bizarre, hybrid
condition. In this instance, Mary Rodwell, the author of
Awakening has attempted to cover all the bases in this well-
researched, well-written self-help manual. Her qualifications
are impressive, she is a nurse, counsellor, and hypnotherapist,
and more importantly, she also understands the subject of alien
abduction. The book is designed both as an account of her
efforts to establish a refuge, The Australian Close Encounter
Resource Network (ACERN), for those who believe them selves to
have been abducted and a valuable, almost definitive work of
reference. That the author is a caring, compassionate and
empathic woman is beyond doubt and this comes across clearly in
the manner in which the book is presented. It is laid out in an
orderly and progressive manner and includes case files,
suggested approaches and questions for those interviewing the
abductees/contactees to ask and also self-analytical questions
for those who believe themselves to have been abducted.

Among the items covered are the symptoms themselves, anxiety,
the certainty that the person is being watched, nighttime
'visitations' in the bedroom and electrical items malfunctioning
and other affects. One curious factor common to the majority of
assumed abductees is an inexplicable increase in psychic
abilities and a general tendency to embrace spiritual matters.
Often, the subject will develop healing and other abilities.
Another, often ignored facet of the abduction scenario commented
upon, is the appearance of 'Star Children' or children who
appear to be advanced, especially psychically, beyond their
years. These children it is thought, may be the products of pre
and post-natal genetic modification and manipulation on their
mothers by ET's.

There is however a worrying tendency expressed in the book and
that is, it appears to be totally uncritical about some the
accounts given by alleged abductees. This may create potential
problems for the psychological well being of the person
afflicted with the symptoms of abduction. In the case where the
person has not in fact been abducted, this may serve to
reinforce the erroneous idea that they have. While it is indeed
possible, even probable that some people have been taken against
their will by extraterrestrials, all of the 'abduction symptoms'
quoted, right down to sleep paralysis, increased psychic
awareness and nose bleeds, are both identical to and
interchangeable with those of people who suffer from electrical
hypersensitivity (EH). EH is induced in sensitive people over a
period of time either by their proximity to electrical
'hotspots' both natural and artificial or increasing levels of
electromagnetic pollution. Having said that, it is also quite
probable that the electrical interference alters certain brain
functions and actually activates areas otherwise dormant. The
condition can also cause a wide ranges of 'entity' based
hallucinations and regrettably, the book does not mention if
this fully attested medical syndrome is factored into the
counselling. Having said that, no doubt the abduction
counsellors have sufficient experience to tell the difference
between the merely misguided and those who genuinely have
experienced alarming events for which they have no ready
explanation.

Another particularly interesting section of the book deals
specifically with the increased psychic awareness or 'High Sense
Awareness' as the author calls them which include elevated PSI
abilities, ESP, levitation, teleportation, out of body
experiences/astral travel, etc. I find these increased latent
abilities particularly interesting, because if indeed the
persons affected have indeed been taken by extraterrestrials why
should this have affected certain neurological and chemical
processes in the brain? The book posits that there may be more
than one explanation for this including deliberate genetic
modification.

In spite of some minor reservations, I consider this book to be
a worthy addition to any serious researchers bookshelf and
should provide an excellent source of information and guidance
on the subject of alien abduction and how to deal with it in
others and in ones self.

This book can be ordered on-line at: www.beyondpublications.com
  or by telephoning: 0113 260 1133.

END






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                          Filer's Files #42 - 2002

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 14:24:50 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 11:27:14 -0400
Subject: Filer's Files #42 - 2002


FILER'S FILES #42 - 2002, MUFON Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer, Director Mutual UFO Network Eastern
October 16, 2002, Majorstar@aol.com. Webmaster: Chuck
Warren -- My new website is at:

http://www.filersfiles-ufo.com


SIGHTINGS INCREASE WORLDWIDE

The purpose of these files is to report the UFO eyewitness and
photo/video evidence that occurs on a daily basis around the
world and in space. Features this week are: President Carter and
UFOs, More evidence for artificiality on Mars. Solar System
warming, Connecticut lights, Pennsylvania UFO sighting from two
locations, Wisconsin bright light, Illinois flying triangle and
fireball, Colorado fireballs, Arizona atomic cloud UFO, Utah V
craft, California rectangles, Washington UFO photos continue,
Canadian meteor like object, Puerto Rico animal deaths, England
UFO bigger than a star, Italian flap just a balloon, Poland disc
and crop circle, and Georgian UFOs filmed.

SUPPORT UFO RESEARCH -- I encourage readers to support UFO
research since most UFO research is done by volunteers. Greater
cooperation and unity is needed to benefit both the researcher
and the reader. In what may be the most important endeavor of
mankind the total UFO budget for all organizations may be less
than your corner Pizza Restaurant. You can help by getting
subscriptions to fine UFO magazines, supporting advertisers,
supporting UFO candidates for office such as Stephen Bassett of
Maryland's 8th Congressional District or shopping at associated
websites for the Holidays. Support your favorite UFO
organization, they need your help. One of our finest
organizations the Center for UFO Studies particularly needs your
help. Subscriptions for CUFOS are available for $25 (US) or $30
(non-US) from: CUFOS, 2457 West Peterson Avenue, Chicago,
Illinois 60659.

  THE THREAT -- I spoke with Dr. David Jacobs from Temple
University on Saturday, "He is more than ever convinced there is
a serious threat to Earth from Space." His book, "The Threat" is
excellent and explains this potential threat. If David is
correct, "We are preparing for the wrong war, and the people of
the world should unite and strive for friendship and research
the possible threat."

JIMMY CARTER, THE NOBEL PRIZE, AND UFOs

Former President Jimmy Carter is being awarded the prestigious
Nobel Peace Prize. He is a former Naval Academy graduate and
naval officer who spent many nights on watch looking at the
night skies before becoming the governor of Georgia. Carter was
doing some politicking at the Leary Georgia's Lion's Club in
January 1969, when suddenly from the sky a UFO "as bright as the
moon" flashed before his eyes. A red and green glowing orb
radiated as it hurtled across the southwestern skies. Ten
minutes later, it vanished. That was Jimmy Carter's story and he
has stuck to it.

Carter became the first major politician to risk achieving
"crackpot" status by claiming he had had a close encounter. "I
don't laugh at people any more when they say they've seen UFOs,"
Carter said at a Southern Governor's Conference a few years
later. "I've seen one myself." Yet while he was on the campaign
trail, he tried to use it to his advantage. "A light appeared
and disappeared in the sky," he told a Washington Post reporter
in 1975. "It got brighter and brighter. I have no idea what it
was =E2=C7=A6 I think it was a light beckoning me to run in the
California primary for President."

Carter while running for President said, "What I would do is
make information we have about those (UFO) sightings available
to the public (three words unclear). I have never tried to
identify what I saw. You know, it was a light in the western sky
that was very unique. I had never seen it before. There were
about twenty of us who saw it. None of us could figure out what
it was. I don't think it was anything solid. It was just like a
light. It was a curious aberration, so I don't make fun of
people who say they've see unidentified objects in the sky. As
Jimmy Carter receives his Nobel Peace Prize, it might be
important to note that other important Peace Prize winners have
also taken an interest in the extraterrestrial angle of world
peace.

Former Prime Minister of Canada, Lester B. Pearson actually
brought up the extraterrestrial possibilities during his
acceptance speech for the Nobel Peace Prize in 1957.

"Perhaps there is a hopeful possibility here in the conquest of
outer space. Interplanetary activity may well give us planetary
peace. Once we discover Martian spaceships hovering over Earth's
airspace, we will all come together." "How dare they threaten us
like this!" we shall shout, as one, at a really United Nations!"
Thanks to Grant Cameron http://www.presidentialufo.com

WERNER VON BRAUN while head of Army Rocket Research commented,
"We find ourselves faced by powers which are far stronger than
we had hitherto assumed, and whose base is at present unknown to
us. More I cannot say at present. We are now engaged in entering
into closer contact with those powers, and in six or nine months
time it may be possible to speak with some precision on the
matter."-

MARS ARTIFICIALITY AND ARCHEOLOGICAL RUINS

Last weekend, I had the pleasure of meeting Tom Van Flandern at
Pat Marcattilio's UFO Conference in Bordentown, New Jersey. Tom
received his Ph.D. in Astronomy from Yale in 1969, and spent
twenty years at the US Naval Observatory where he became the
Chief of Celestrial Mechanics branch. I suggested as a former
Air Force intelligence officer, "If photo interpreters were
given images of Mars, but told the images were from Iraq, they
would come up with a list of hundreds of possible targets and
they would see archaeological sites, structures, forts and a
complete transportation system." He agreed with me that the
evidence is there without question for artificiality on Mars. We
both agreed the evidence clearly proves that a civilization or
bases once existed on Mars. I suggested the glass like tubes
were the most significant, because they indicated a subway like
transportation system. There is no known natural process that
can explain the glass tube like structures. He personally felt
the Face on Mars was the greatest evidence for intelligence. It
had two symmetrical eyes with a perfectly around iris for each
eye, eye brows, a nose, lips, hair, a forehead, cheeks, a chin
and all the requirements to make a face. He felt the chances in
nature for a face of this kind was a billion to one.

I suggested the glass tubes that marked the planet's surface and
could be spotted for hundreds of miles were the real key. I had
called the Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) and argued for their
validity. Tom explained if JPL agreed with our analysis, NASA
would soon be given funds to mount a manned flight to Mars. As
long as JPL maintained that only natural features exist they
will continue to be funded to launch rather mundane satellite
research. It is actually to NASA's advantage, but to JPL's
disadvantage to find evidence of life on Mars. An announcement
of evidence of a civilization would likely give NASA funds for a
manned mission to the Red Planet. Tom felt the multispectral
images by the THEMIS satellite are likely to find significant
evidence for life on Mars. The new images will be in color
rather than in grays. What appear to be trees and giant plants
will likely be shown to be green in color. It is further likely
that the infra-red will provided more proof for the Face on Mars
and the amazingly rectangular slab that it stands on. The latest
data is said to contain indisputable evidence of a subterranean
cityscape on Mars.

Several other clearly outlined faces exist on Mars and colors
can add new dimension to the images. Some of the faces, images
of dolphins, fish and various animals are likely to be outlined.
I explained I do not pretend to be a scientist, but there are
viable structures, forts, plant life, possible digging
operations, and above all a system of tubes. The tubes are
arranged like a railroad system with switching, terminals at
structure like stations near city like rubble. There are no tube
like structures any where in nature to match these subway like
structures that are at least 60 feet in diameter. Each Spring
much of Mars turns green as the poles melt. Later, in the fall
the plant life turns brown. Plant or tree like structures cast
shadows 50 to 80 meters high. We agreed Mars looks like a great
place to visit to obtain some important answers. Thanks to Tom
Van Flandern

OUR SOLAR SYSTEM IS WARMING UP

Astronomers have noticed warming of Neptune's largest moon,
Triton, Mercury, Mars and the Earth. Massachusetts Institute of
Technology News says that Pluto is undergoing global warming of
about 2 degrees Celsius over the past 14 years, as evidenced by
a threefold increase in the planet's atmospheric pressure. A
team led by James Elliot, director of MIT's Wallace Observatory,
made this finding by watching the dimming of a star when Pluto
passed in front of it. Astronomer Jay Pasachoff, said that,
Pluto's global warming was "likely not connected with that of
the Earth. The major way they could be connected is if they were
caused by a large increase in sunlight. But the solar constant -
- the amount of sunlight received each second -- is carefully
monitored by spacecraft, and we know the sun's output is much
too steady to be changing the temperature of Pluto."

The Hubble Space Telescope has found evidence that Neptune's
Largest Moon is Triton is also warming up significantly. Triton
is undergoing global warming -- percentage-wise, it's a very
large increase," said James L. Elliot, an astronomer at MIT. The
warming trend is causing part of Triton's frozen nitrogen
surface to turn into gas, thus making its thin atmosphere
denser. Thanks to Massachusetts Institute of Technology News

CONNECTICUT LIGHTS

SIMSBURY -- MUFON reports that a witness around midnight of
October 8, 2002, saw three lights that were not moving toward
the Simsbury Airport. The lights just seemed to float about the
same speed as my car and seemed to be flying pretty low. Maybe a
helicopter but it didn't look like one? Matt was wondering if
anyone had reported strange lights over the area? Thanks to Matt
and John Schuessler Director of [ http://www.mufon.com ]MUFON

PENNSYLVANIA MULTIPLE REPORTS OF SAME UFOs

HARRISBURG -- The witness reports, A yellow/white light in the
northeast sky over Interstate 81, north of Harrisburg on
September 18, 2002, at 8:20 PM. It was golf ball size at arm's
length. The light turned off like an over head light and then
reappeared farther north, became stationary and went out again.
The light appeared again to the east and hovering. Twice two
other lights appeared as though they were dropping to the left
and right diagonally forming a triangle. The second and third
objects disappeared into the night. My wife and I thought it
bizarre because no other marker lights were on the objects and
there was no sound. Being prior military I was amazed by the
angles at which these objects moved. The activity lasted for 15
minutes, when the light turn off.

A second witness on September 18th, reports, "I live on a fairly
high floor of an apartment building, facing the city of
Harrisburg. I was eating dinner and looking out my widow and a
bright yellow light appeared, and then just as suddenly
disappeared at 9:00 PM." My sister and I both saw a similar
light appear a few inches away from the one I saw initially.
There were three other lights that did essentially the same
thing -- blink on, stay in plain sight for 5 to 10 seconds and
then disappeared. About 15 minutes later, a red light appeared
to the lower right of the yellow ones. It then proceeded to
split into a triangle of three identical red lights, and then
all simultaneously disappear. The red formation occurred a few
times so I called a friend who lives two miles closer and he was
also able to see the show. While the red and yellow lights were
blinking in and out, there was a white light, that streaked from
right to diagonal lower left (2 inches in length). The streak
occurred in a split second. While all of these fairly steady,
planet-looking lights were appearing, and then disappearing,
there were much smaller star-like lights which were zigzagging
across the sky. Initially, they looked like very distant
airplanes, until they started erratically bouncing up and down,
back and forth. Thanks to Peter Davenport [
http://www.ufocenter.com/ ]NUFORC .

WISCONSIN BRIGHT LIGHTS

WISCONSIN RAPIDS -- Carmen K. says, "My husband called me
outside around 8:30 PM to observe strange lights in the sky on
October 9, 2002, and I saw what appeared to be a falling star,
and told him that's what I thought it was." At that point two
objects became apparent and began flashing like strobe lights.
At first they were white in color as they moved west, they then
looped around and within seconds were back in the same spot I
had first seen them. We called out my son and our parents and we
all observed them for around 30 more minutes. At one point we
saw five lights ranging in color from white to red. When they
were red the light was steady and not flashing like the rest of
them. A plane then flew overhead and the lights seemed to follow
and come up on the plane very quickly like they were observing
the plane, they then disappeared for a few minutes and
reappeared in the same spot, I had first seen them. Thanks to
John Hoppe Director@UFOWisconsin.com  [
http://www.ufowisconsin.com/ ]http://www.ufowisconsin.com/

ILLINOIS FLYING TRIANGLE

DECATUR -- On September 24, 2002, at about 12:36 AM, my good
friend and I went out in our small town and saw what we thought
was an airplane. My friend said, "Man that thing is not a plane
look at how big it is!" So, I looked at it again and this time
it was a lot closer and lower. It was a flying triangular shaped
thing with big red lights on the three corners that had a haze
like glow to them. It was moving very slowly to the southeast. I
looked a little to the south and I saw what appeared to be
another one following. It looked exactly the same but was moving
a little faster and in the same direction. The second triangle
then sped up to pass the first and went over the tree's and we
could no longer see it. About ten seconds later the first one
sped up and was out of sight. We hurried to the car and tried to
chase but nothing was to be seen. They seemed massive and made
very small "sonar" sounding noises every so often. We've never
seen anything fly so low and be this big. It scared us both.
Thanks to [ http://www.ufocenter.com/ ]NUFORC

CHICAGO -- Bill Putney reports, "I saw a fireball of some type
in the western sky at 6:20 PM on October 14, 2002. It was bright
orange with a tail. I live in Chicago two miles north of
downtown and three miles west of Lake Michigan. Thanks to Bill
Putney

COLORADO FIREBALLS STREAK ACROSS SKY

DENVER POST -- Will Ryan reports that on Tuesday, October 8,
2002 - For the second night in a row - and at almost the exact
same time - people across Colorado saw a streaking fireball
shoot across the sky. Experts said the brilliant object was
probably another meteor burning up in the atmosphere.
Eyewitnesses described the Monday fireball as having similar
brightness and size as the object seen across the Western United
States on Sunday. However, reports said Monday night's fireball
was moving in the opposite direction - west to east - compared
with the one Sunday. "It was white in front with orange around
it, with little pieces coming off it."
http://www.denverpost.com/

ARIZONA TWO UFOs SPARKS AND ATOMIC CLOUD UFO

SCOTTSDALE -- Three witnesses observed a peculiar circular,
maneuvering object on September 28, 2002, with sparks below it.
They were driving north when they witnessed a peculiar object
directly ahead of them at an angle of elevation of 75 degrees.
The object, when first observed, was drifting from west to east
in front of the witnesses, and then it suddenly turned to the
south. Its apparent size was equal to one tenth of the diameter
of a full Moon. There was a second object below the larger one,
and it suddenly began releasing a "ribbon of sparkles," as it
moved across the sky. Thanks to Peter Davenport

FLAGSTAFF -- Lima Bean writes, "My partner and I saw what we can
only think was a UFO on Thursday evening, September 19, near the
entrance of Wupatki Monument off Highway 89, heading north out
of town at 7:30 in the evening. It was a mild, clear evening
with a full moon, and we saw a very bright light about 15 miles
west of us, near a grouping of old small volcanoes. At first the
bright light looked like a helicopter spotlight-- but it was
not. There was no sound. The nature of the light was a creamy
off-white phosphorescent color, illuminated from within, and it
kept expanding. It shined down upon the ground, without any
determinable shape that we could tell. The "object" disappeared,
but the "light cloud" continued to grow brighter, and bigger. It
kept doing this for ten minutes or more and looked like a
miniature atomic bomb blast.

The light cloud glowed brighter and expanded in every dimension.
At some point, this light cloud started to dissipate, and then
we noticed to its south, another smaller light cloud similar to
what we had been watching. After the two light clouds
disappeared, we noticed a plume of smoke or haze in a strange
shape at least a half-mile in diameter above the first cinder
hill. We called the local observatory (Lowell) and asked about
any rocket launches and they knew nothing and said nothing. The
whole observation was about 45 minutes. It was quite startling,
as we wracked our brains and could think of no natural or man
made phenomenon that would have created what we had witnessed.
Our mutual impression was that this was some sort of
extraterrestrial sighting. Thanks to limabean@flaglink.com

UTAH ORANGE UFOS IN HUGE 'V' FORMATION

TAYLORSVILLE -- The witness reports, " On September 26, 2002,we
were traveling home when several objects in a 'V' formation were
seen. The lights were slowly moving and hovering into straight
lines. At 9:15 PM, a triangle shaped object flew over our heads,
making a low humming sound. Then, one shot straight up like
something going into space, but it didn't. One flew right over
our heads at 300 feet and looked like a triangle and immediately
changed directions moving at 1000 to 3000 mph. Nothing that I
know of can go at that speed and move from right to left so
quickly. The other lights were still there, they had an orange
glow to them. We stayed for an hour and watched these strange
objects. It was not of this world, or maybe it was the
government testing something, very large and strange. There
wasn't a logical explanation of what I saw.Now there is no doubt
in my mind that we are not alone in the universe. Thanks to Dave
Rosenfeld aliendave@earthlink.net Utah UFO Hunters,
http://www.aliendave.com

CALIFORNIA 4 RECTANGLES CONNECTED WITH FILAMENT

WHEELER SPRINGS -- I am an amateur astronomer, and had set up an
AVA Stellacam Ex, sense up to 126, to observe the Trifid Nebula
on a 20-inch Vitek monitor with a field of view of 3 by 4
degrees on September 26, 2002. The object, consisting of four or
five rectangles connected with what might be described as a
rigid filament (the filament extended out past the line of
rectangles on both ends, as well) drifted across the field of
view rather slowly, moving roughly toward the zenith at 8:21 PM.
It was approximately one degree in apparent length and did not
appear to be outside the atmosphere. Detail of some kind was
clearly visible on all the rectangles, but I have no opinion as
to what it was. The object moved at about the rate an aircraft
crossing the field of view would have moved, rather than a
satellite, so I ruled out space debris. There was no weather
balloon at either end of the series of rectangles visible, and
its slow speed would, of course, rules that out. The sunset was
recent enough to have provided illumination to the object, so I
cannot conclude it had any illumination of its own.

One technical point about the equipment that might not be
immediately obvious (the Stellacam EX is relatively new) is that
the setting of the camera at the time (sense up to 128, which
means that 128 1/60 second exposures are cumulated on board the
camera and output to the monitor every two seconds as one image)
means that the object had to be quite dim. At 128 a planet or
aircraft would bleed badly into adjacent pixels, but this object
did not bleed at all. (128, for example, is so sensitive that
stars within a globular cluster bleed into each other and the
cluster appears to be one star.) Since the object did not appear
burned out in any way, it might actually have been too dim for,
say, an 8" SCT to observe at all and I don't see any way that
binoculars could have picked it up. But I still remain
astonished at its apparent large size and slow speed. I cannot
really account for its apparent direction of movement. Thanks to
Peter Davenport [ http://www.ufocenter.com/ ]NUFORC

WASHINGTON PHOTOS CONTINUE

SPOKANE -- Judge Ed, writes "I just wanted to update you on the
recurrent sightings of unexplained craft in the Spokane area. I
listened to George Filer and Peter Davenport on recent Jeff
Rense Radio Shows, and both of their sites contain independent
reports from the Spokane area confirming that something strange
is indeed going on here. I continue to observe anomalous craft
nearly every night. I have received mail from people all over
the world who have viewed my photos, and they have been asking
to see more. The other night on your radio program, your guest
noted that you perform a very important public service by
disseminating information of this type. I have a number of
recent photos which I am sending to you, and hope that you will
post them to your site. Thanks to Ed at estei@qwest.net [
http://www.nationalufocenter.com/files/2002/index.php ]FF UFO
CENTER PHOTOS

CANADA FLASHING RED LIGHTS

VANCOUVER -- About 8:06 PM, on September 18, 2002, I got a call
from a friend telling me to go outside, she was kind of frantic.
She said, "There was something in the sky to the northwest!" I
looked up and saw a 4 inch long at arm's length lighted craft
and our phone's began to buzz and break up. I then called 911,
and they gave me the number to the UFO hotline. I explained, "It
was oblong from my view and had a line of flashing red lights,
and it was moving up and down in an odd manner and not like a
conventional aircraft. My daughter and I watched for five
minutes as it moved northwest and disappeared.

SAYWARD, BC -- . Brian Vike reports "We have 15 witnesses who
told me they thought the object was under some kind of control.
They report a meteor like object climbed up over a large
mountain range, made loops, changing direction in mid flight and
headed the opposite way it came from. The July 29, 2002, object
looked like a plane blowing up! (A huge fireball of flame). She
also told me that the object was very low to the ground, but it
was hard to estimate the exact altitude. It was traveling
straight along, not falling at an angle. This witness said she
heard no sound coming from it. She described the color as being
orange/yellow. It also had a short tail following behind. In her
estimation she figured the total time of the sighting lasted
between 5 to 8 seconds. So far I have received just a hair over
100 sighting reports for 2002. Thanks to Brian Vike HBCC UFO
Research

PUERTO RICO CHUPACABRA KILLS 19 FARM ANIMALS

PONCE -- The story of the so-called Chupacabra, the shadowy
character that attacks and slays animals, emerged once again in
Ponce, a city on the southern coast, when 19 roosters, rabbits,
ducks and chickens turned up dead on September 22, 2002. "The
animal responsible for this is short in stature because it broke
the cages from below."

ENGLAND BIGGER THAN A STAR

TICKHILL, YORKSHIRE -- Donna wrote, "On October12, 2002, my
fianc=C3=A9 and I were walking home, when he noticed a strange light
in the sky at 7:45 PM. He pointed it out to me and we both
observed an object bigger and brighter than a star for about two
minutes. The movement it made was strange, it swayed from side
to side and seemed to bob up and down. The light faded and got
brighter whilst we watched it for about two minutes until it
eventually just disappeared, but it did not move away, it just
faded away. We both observed strange white beams of light coming
off it that resembled a sparkler. Thanks to Kenny Young
ufo@FUSE.NET

NORTHERN ITALY "FLAP"

The Italian Center for UFO Studies reports, "We had a new "flap"
of sightings taking place over Northern Italy, on the evening of
September 20th and 21st. Numerous testimonies describe a roughly
triangular object with the point facing down, or otherwise
oblong in shape, which reflected the sun's light and appeared to
be stationary or move very slowly. CISU investigations
identified the object as a huge stratospheric balloon (350,000
cu. m.) launched for scientific purposes from France, by the
European Space Agency.

POLAND UFO AND CROP CIRCLE.

Wylatowa Tomasz Wiersza=C2=B3owicz reports he has been told about
the observation of a UFO in Mogilnie five kilometers from
Wylatowa. It was September 24; 2002, about 19.00 hours when a
very brightly shining disc in light inclination moved slowly
surrounded by a reddish faint light . The UFO was so amazing,
that cars stopped on the road! We also have pictures of a crop
circle from the same village at: http://strony.wp.pl/wp/tttt-
ttttt/ufo. Thanks to Tomasz Wiersza=C2=B3owicz
http://www.uforaport.prv.pl

GEORGIAN UFO SEEN AND VIDEOTAPED

TBILISI -- - According to Georgian media reports, residents from
Rustavi spotted six or seven unidentified flying objects (UFO)
over their town late on October 3, 2002. Georgy Chelishvili from
Rustavi told Georgia's Prime-News agency that he recorded the
UFOs on a digital video camera for about ten minutes. He said
that six or seven shining objects resembling turtles appeared
over Rustavi. All the UFOs, each of them about 50 meters in
diameter, were moving rather swiftly, sometimes hovering in the
air. Then they disappeared, he said.   Chelishvili noted that
other residents also saw the UFOs. [GG EUROPE EEU EMRG ODD] tm
rm. Thanks to Frank Richards and Interfax Oct 7

MALAYSIA FLYING COFFIN PICKED UP ON CAMERA

DAILY EXPRESS NEWSPAPER reports that on October 4, 2002, a
surveillance camera (CCTV) mounted atop the Kota Kinabalu
International Airport terminal captured a rather strange sight
resembling a "flying coffin" hovering over Terminal Two. A
senior Malaysia Airports Berhad (MAB) officer said the revolving
camera was focusing on the Terminal Two area at about 7.06 pm
when an object "flying" across the scene within seconds before
disappearing from the screen. It was not picked up on radar.  A
security guard on duty in the area claimed to have seen the
object flying in a great speed over Terminal Two, initially seen
rising from the direction of the sea before disappearing over
the hills adjacent to the KKIA terminal. "There was no sound at
all," he said. Source URL =3D
http://www.dailyexpress.com.my/news.cfm?NewsID=3D14205

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A. K. Johnstone, Ph.D., explores with evidence, the creation of
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Filer's Files is copyrighted 2002 by George A. Filer, all rights
reserved. Readers may post the complete files on their Web Sites
if they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list
the date of issue that the item appeared. These reports and
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[] Attach025.htm








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   Oct > Oct 16

               Disclosure2003 Campaign Press Release - Oct. 17

From: Stephen Bassett <Disclosure2003@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 18:44:28 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 11:31:42 -0400
Subject: Disclosure2003 Campaign Press Release - Oct. 17

                D  I  S  C  L  O  S  U  R  E  2  0  0  3
  MD 8th District Congressional Campaign of Stephen Bassett

Press Release October 17, 2002

Bethesda, MD --The ugly national trend in which independent and
third party candidates are excluded from polls, media coverage,
debates and forums continues here in Montgomery County Maryland
in the 8th District Congressional election.

Stephen Bassett, the independent candidate in the 8th District,
has been excluded from numerous campaign debates and forums.
These include events sponsored by Common Cause of Maryland,
B'Nai Israel Congregation/B'nai Mencos Club, and the Jewish
Community Center of Greater Washington/Seniors Organized for
Change.  [Note: Spear Lancaster, the Libertarian Party candidate
for governor, who got on the ballot via 35,000 nominating
signatures, is also being excluded from nearly all debates and
forums.]

But the most egregious example of this exclusionary practice is
the upcoming debate to be held at Montgomery College, the
largest community college in the state, with all three of its
campuses in the 8th Congressional District.

This candidate debate is being co-sponsored by a coalition of
civic associations and the Montgomery College Alumni Association
and is scheduled for Monday, October 21 at 8 pm. The debate
coordinator, Thomas Curtis, a member of the King Farm Civic
Association, contacted the Disclosure2003 campaign and stated
that, =E2=C7oonly parties which received at least 20% of the vote in
the last election will be allowed to participate in this
debate.=E2=C7=D8 He then added, =E2=C7oObviously this means only the
Democrat and Republican Party candidates will be present.=E2=C7=D8

Disclosure2003 immediately contacted Steve Simon, Director of
Communications for Montgomery College and the school's
coordinator for the event. Simon was respectful, responsive and
conveyed the candidate's desire to participate to the civic
association coordinator, Curtis, and also spoke with News
Channel 8, which is televising the debate. Curtis refused to
change the candidate criteria, and News Channel 8 was
noncommittal. Bassett would not participate.

A request was then made that Montgomery College cancel its
participation on the grounds it sends the wrong message to the
students, is a slap in the face to the 71,000 voters registered
as independents in the 8th District, an insult to the 5177
registered voters who signed the D2003 nominating petitions, and
not in keeping with the values of one of the most educated and
multicultural communities in the nation. It was made clear such
a cancellation was not possible.

Legal challenges to this national scandal of exclusion have been
rejected in the courts time after time. Only when the American
people become aware of how dangerous this trend is to the
nation, get sufficiently angry, and demand reform through
legislation, will the Closing of the American Mind,as the
late Allan Bloom put it, be reversed.

Ralph Nader was excluded from the presidential debates. He
wanted to talk about corporate greed, abuse of power and
abrogation of community responsibility. The Democrat and
Republican Party candidates wanted nothing to do with that
issue. Nader was right, but Bush and Gore went unchallenged. Now
taxpayer supported Montgomery College will continue this kind of
exclusionary politics.

_________________________________________________

             Transparent government, private citizenry
_________________________________________________

                          Campaign Headquarters
                           Bethesda/Gaithersburg
                        4938 Hampden Lane, #161
                            Bethesda, MD 20814
             Phone: 301-990-4290      Cell: 202-431-2459
                   Email:  Disclosure2003@aol.com
                  Website:  www.disclosure2003.net








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   Oct > Oct 16

                       UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 42

From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 21:06:39 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 23:38:16 -0400
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 42


Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor.

<Masinaigan@aol.com>
==========================

      UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 7, Number 42
October 15, 2002
Editor: Joseph Trainor

http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/


CHUPACABRA STRIKES
AGAIN IN PUERTO RICO

       "Only two weeks after being blamed for the deaths of
several domestic animals in Ponce, P.R., the enigmatic
Chupacabra reappeared, this time in the Caguitas Centro
section of Aguas Buenas."
       "'When I got home, I looked at the cage and didn't
see the rabbits.  I went downstairs quickly and saw the
scene.  I had a nervous attack and had to take some
pills,' said Amarillis Flores, who returned home
yesterday morning (Sunday, October 6, 2002) after having
spent the weekend at her daughter's house."
       "Amarillis, who was in charge of the residence, was
alarmed when she saw that her grandchildren's pets--two
white rabbits, a black duck, a rooster and a hen--lay
motionless at the bottom of their cages, located at the
rear of the backyard."
       "Neighbor Salvador Rosario said that on Sunday night
(October 6, 2002) he noted that the dogs were very
restless, but dismissed the possibility that the canines
could have been the cause of the animal deaths, as the
cage would require a strength greater than a dog's to
tear through the (wire) screen."
       "'Two dogs have been missing since Saturday (October
5, 2002)--a dachsund named Oreja and a poodle named
Negri,' added Rosario, a retired schoolteacher."
       "The (crime) scene was macabre: a duck, still
agonizing, displays two holes on its back, through which
its blood was apparently extracted.  The equidistant
holes could also be seen on the rooster's back and that
of the hen.  The rabbit's front paws had been severed;
two geese and another duck escaped the carnage."
       "'They couldn't have been dogs, because they would
have dragged the animals away.  It was a two-legged
Chupacabra,' said Sra. Flores, meaning that it was either
the mythical creature that no one has been able to
identify, or it was a human being."
       "Inside the cage, where the smell of decomposition
prevailed, there was no trace of blood, and its gate had
not been forced.  The wire fencing had been pierced or
ripped by something with considerable strength, according
to the affected parties."
       "When interviewed by Primera Hora, veterinarian and
zoologist Pedro Nunez noted that the incident ascribed to
the Chupacabra--a character believed by many to have
wings, flies swiftly and has nocturnal habits--could be
the work of stray dogs, apes or exotic animals not native
to Puerto Rico.  The specialist in exotic wildlife noted
that during the drought season, some types of rats and
mice tend to suck the blood of others to survive."  (See
the Puerto Rican newspaper Primera Hora for October 7,
2002, "Another mysterious attack: Chupacabra returns."
Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales y Luiseppi Quinones para
eso articulo de diario.)
(Editor's Comment: It may be true, Dr. Nunez, that some
rodents drink blood as a last extremity during a drought.
But I don't know of any species of Rodentia strong enough
to rip apart a steel wire-mesh cage.)


STRANGE BOOM HEARD IN
LITTLE FALLS, NEW YORK

       On Wednesday, October 2, 2002, just after 11 a.m.,
C.R.N., who lives in a rural area a few miles south of
Little Falls, N.Y. (population 5,188), "went outdoors to
see if there was something flying over.  I've never heard
anything like it.  It was almost like a 'boom' but long
and deep and very, very loud."
       "My mother lives less than a mile from me and was
frantically trying to reach me as she was quite
frightened by it," she added, "We live in a rural area,
and most others are gone at this time of day, so I
haven't been able to find anyone else in the area who
heard it.  It was so loud, though, that it should have
been heard for many miles around and received some sort
of attention in the local media or something."
       "The (farm) animals were frantic.  Dogs growling
with hair raised.  Geese going nuts.  But you could still
'feel' it in the air for moments afterward."
       "I was expecting to find perhaps an earthquake
report for the area at the very least.  But so far I'm
totally in the dark as to what it was."
       Little Falls is on Interstate Highway I-90 in
upstate New York, approximately 69 miles (110 kilometers)
west of Albany, the state capital.  (Email Form Report)
(Editor's Note:  Little Falls is four miles (6
kilometers) west of Dolgeville, N.Y., formerly known as
Brockett's Bridge, which may have been the site of a
Roswell-type UFO incident in July 1864.  For more on the
strange case of Lt. Gary Spencer, see UFO Roundup, volume
4, number 33, "1864: Roswell in upstate New York?" page
8; UFO Roundup, volume 4, number 34, "1997: Cheap
Detective," page 8.)


CALIFORNIA WOMAN CATCHES
A UFO ON VIDEOTAPE

       On Saturday, September 14, 2002, around 7 p.m., P.K.
and her two children spotted a UFO outside their home in
San Gabriel, California (population 39,804).
       "Now I must say that I never believed in UFOs...not
really," P.K. wrote, "Like a lot of people, since I
myself hadn't seen one with my own eyes, then it was
obvious that those who have probably missed their
medications."
       "On September 14, I was in my front room on my
computer when my daughter came rushing into the room.
She said, 'Mom, come quick!  There is a plane about to
crash.'"
       "I ran into her room and looked out her bedroom
window, which gave a very clear view of the beautiful
night sky.  There, in front of us, were two balls of
light.  One of them just stayed in one place, while the
other was descending in a slanted slope downward.  Then
it suddenly popped up back in line with the other one."
       "When I saw this, I yelled, 'Camcorder!  Get the
camcorder!'"
       "My 8-year-old didn't know where it was, so I had to
stop watching the show and go find it.  By the time I
came back to the window, the light had disappeared.  I
was furious!  I couldn't possibly deny what I was seeing.
I had to get it on tape to prove what me and my two kids
saw."
       Playing a hunch, P.K. decided to stake out the
bedroom, camcorder in hand, the very next night.  Her
hunch proved to be accurate.
       On Sunday, September 15, 2002, she added, "I was
ready.  I wanted proof to show people because pictures
are good but moving pictures are better."
       Just after 7 p.m., "I looked to my right out the
(bedroom) window" and "I saw a white ball of light slowly
moving up, straight up in the sky.  It was a crystal-
clear sky with just this ball and nothing else.  At first
I wasn't going to film it, but I just went on and filmed
it anyway."
       "Then the most amazing thing happened.  As I was
filming this thing in the clear sky, it came to a slight
stop and just...very slowly disappeared."
       "I got a very good clear shot of this.  I want
someone who knows about UFOs to look at it, but I have my
family on the tape, too, and don't want to send it
somewhere where I will never see it again."
       San Gabriel is just west of Rosemead Boulevard,
midway between Pasadena and East Los Angeles.  (Email
Form Report)
       Elsewhere in California, eyewitness D.K. spotted a
high-flying UFO over Walnut Creek (population 64, 296) on
Sunday, October 6, 2002, at about 3:30 p.m.
       "It was a clear afternoon," D.K. reported, "We saw
what appeared to be a star nearly overhead and in a
slightly easterly direction.  Four witnesses watched the
object for approximately 20 minutes.  Two of the
witnesses saw the object leave its position and turn
westerly.  It was stationary until that sudden and rapid
movement to the west.  Then it disappeared within two to
three seconds, all from an altitude of well over 50,000
feet (15,000 meters), possibly 100,000 feet (30,000
meters).  The object returned to its original position
two to three minutes later.  It stayed in position for
approximately 20 minutes until again moving, this time to
the south, and not returning."
       D.K. described the UFO as "a bright white star, its
shape changing to an upright cylinder and then to a
horizontal triangular shape, as seen through binoculars.
Its estimated speed was 2,000 miles per hour (3,200
kilometers per hour)."
       Walnut Creek, Cal. is on Highway 160 approximately
25 miles (40 kilometers) south of Sacramento, the state
capital.  (Email Form Report) (Editor's Comment:  I
wonder if paranormal researcher Bufo Calvin is aware of
the UFOs' presence in his hometown?)


ORANGE UFOs SIGHTED IN
SOUTHERN BRAZIL

       "During the last two weeks, ten people have seen
three UFOs with the same characteristics" over and around
the city of Florianopolis (population 380,000), the
capital of Brazil's southern state of Santa Catarina, and
its sister city across the strait, Sao Jose.
       "The UFOs are orange.  They are enveloped in an aura
of yellowish light. They were challenged by (Brazilian)
ufologists on the ground, who were using flashlights
(torches in UK--J.T.) and lanterns.  Each time they were
signalled, the UFOs retreated in the direction (east) of
the beach and then out into the skies over the South
Atlantic."
       "Two of the three UFOs spotted were witnessed by
former (Brazilian) military personnel."
       "We would like to know if others in the UFO
community here in Brazil or overseas have seen orange
lights similar to those we have seen here."
       Florianopolis is located on a small island just
offshore from the Brazilian mainland about 560 kilometers
(350 miles) south of Rio de Janeiro.  (Muito obrigado a
Rafael Vidal Eleuterio e Ufologia Brasileira por eso
caso.)
(Editor's Note:  Once again, the UFOs are visiting an
ancient site.  Approximately 35 kilometers (22 miles)
north of Florianopolis is Praia do Santinho.  In the
jungle-covered hills overlooking the beach are mysterious
petroglyphs.  Some occultists believe that these
petroglyphs are left over from the lost continent of
Atlantis.)


WOMAN SAYS A UFO CRASHED
IN NORTHERN ARGENTINA

       "With a laconic 'We found nothing,' the police
investigators sent out to look into the curious claim of
a resident of Susques," in Argentina's northern Jujuy
province, "appears to have ended."
       "The woman claimed having seen a shiny object fall
from the sky and produce small tremors and a loud report
(explosive sound--J.T.)."
       "Now, faced with new claims from settlements far
removed from Susques, a new group of police investigators
has been commissioned."
       "Following a new hypothesis, they are tracing a
triangle between Susques, San Juan de Quillaques and El
Toro--the area in which they will search for the
mysterious object which upset this quiet community."
(See the Argentinian newspaper Jujuy Aldia for October 9,
2002, "Report from police commissioners investigating the
collision of an object in Susques."  Muchas gracias a
Scott Corrales y Gloria Coluchi para eso articulo de
diario.)


OFFICE WORKERS SPOOKED
BY UFO IN ADELAIDE, S.A.

       Monday, September 30, 2002, was a typical workday in
Australia.  Male witness A.A. was on the third floor of
an office building in downtown Adelaide, the capital of
South Australia.  He reported, "Looking north through our
third-floor, wall-to-wall window, I saw, for a moment, a
round object outside the window.  It was out of view as
soon as it got above my floor's window."
       "I was talking to a co-worker and looking over his
head when I spotted it.  But by the time I got to say,
'Hey!  Did you see that!?' my colleague turned round
after it shot through...and missed the whole thing."
       "The UFO appeared grey/white, large and round in
shape.  It crossed the field of view through the 2-meter
(6 feet, 6 inches) high window in less than a second.
Rose up from below the field of view and shot straight up
past the field of view, which was obstructed by the
ceiling and the next floor above."
       "It (the UFO) seemed to be about 50 to 100 meters
(150 to 300 feet) away from the building, the size of it
relatively was larger than that of a basketball (held) at
arm's length."  The witness believed the UFO "to be 10 to
40 meters (33 to 132 feet) in diameter."
       "Coincidentally (or not--A.A.), two days later, we
had the U.S. ambassador and some V.I.P.s turn up to hold
a private conference in our building.  I didn't know of
this extra event till after it had passed.  I just find
these two things in the same week (to be) exceptional
events."  (Email Form Report)
(Editor's Note:  From the reports UFO Roundup has
received, Adelaide is rapidly overtaking Melbourne as
southern Australia's Number One UFO hotspot.)


FAMILY SPIES A UFO IN
ST. ALBANS, HERTS., UK

       On Thursday, October 3, 2002, at 5:55 p.m., Lawrence
D. and his two children were strolling through a public
park in the southeastern section of St. Albans,
Hertfordshire, UK when they saw something unusual in the
sky.
       "My two children and I witnessed the object from a
local park, walking back from taking the dog for a walk.
I noticed an object in the sky at low level coming from
the northeast, thinking nothing of this to start with as
we have so many flight paths from Luton Airport and
Stanstead Airport.  I thought it was an aircraft or
specifically a microlight (hang glider in the USA--J.T.)
as we have many in the area."
       Lawrence described the UFO as "egg-shaped, at an
estimated 2,000 feet (600 meters) in altitude."
       "But, to my amazement," he added, "the object did
not climb like a plane or helicopter.  The angle of
attack was too great.  It moved up and across the sky
with flowing movements, then changed course towards the
south, coming towards London.  Then, what struck me as
very odd, the object stopped motionless, but the colour
of it changed from white to yellow."
       "By this time, I had pointed out the object to my
children (ages 7 and 12 years--L.D.).  They were also
intrigued.  The object then moved off, up and to the
southeast towards a grey cloud which was very dark.  I
could see the object quite clear against it.  I could see
some motion, too, but, in the blink of an eye, it
vanished."
       "We waited for it to come through the cloud, as the
sky was a bright blue evening (sky) except for a few dark
clouds, but nothing appeared.  We must have witnessed the
event for 15 to 20 minutes."  (Email Form Report)


MYSTERIOUS LIGHT FLASHES
SEEN IN MIDWAY, ARKANSAS

       On Thursday, October 3, 2002, Ed Kanyon spotted
mysterious light flashes near his home in Midway,
Arkansas, located in Baxter County, about 75 miles (120
kilometers) north of Little Rock, the state capital.
       Ed reported, "I was walking past one of the windows
on the north side of our dwelling.  Out of the corner of
my eye, I caught sight of a light flash like that of a
strobe.  The back door was about 3 feet (0.9 meters) from
me, and I quickly moved to and out the door.  Standing on
the back step, I saw a second flash of light through the
leaves of the trees.  It seemed to be level, but I
believe it was about 30 degrees upward (from the horizon-
-J.T.).  As I stood on the top step, the third flash
occurred, but this one was red."
       "It was a moonless night, and the flashes were
bright enough so that any developing night vision I might
have had was obliterated."
       "The reason I am submitting this is that from the
time I got out of the house and saw the second light
flash through the leaves of the trees...there was no
sound."
       "I spent 23 years in the U.S. Navy and retired as an
Aviation Machinist Mate, Chief Petty Officer.  Upon
retirement from the Navy, I became an FAA-Certified
Airframe and Powerplant Maintenance Technician, with
experience in light aircraft," including Stearman and
Grumman cropdusters.
       "If it was a turbine-powered aircraft, unless very
small, then there should have been the sound of thrust
reversal, and the same with a turboprop leading with
severe (propeller) blade angle.  But there was nothing."
       "If the aircraft was reciprocating-engine-powered,
as it passed through my line of sight, I should have
heard the sound of an engine at low power.  There was
nothing."  (Email Form Report)


EXECUTED PRISONER SAID
SHE'D RETURN AS A UFO
CREW MEMBER

       "Aileen Wuornos, a hitchhiking prostitute who killed
six men along Florida's highways more than a decade ago,
was executed by (lethal) injection Wednesday," October 9,
2002, "after dropping her appeals and firing her
lawyers."
       "Wuornos, 46, became the 10th woman executed in the
United States since capital punishment was reinstated in
1976."
       "In Wuornos's final statement, she referred to Jesus
and a blockbuster movie: 'I'd just like to say I'm
sailing with the Rock (Jesus Christ--J.T.) and I'll be
back like (the movie) Independence Day with Jesus, June
6, like the movie, big mother ship and all.  I'll be
back.'"
(Editor's Comment: Sounds as if Ms. Wuornos got into the
so-called "Redemption" theology while at the Raiford
state prison in Starke, Florida.  For more on this
belief, see the note at the end of this article.)
       "The execution had been delayed while experts
evaluated her mental health.  (Florida) Governor Jeb Bush
(brother of USA president George W. Bush--J.T.) lifted
his stay (of execution) last week after three
psychiatrists said Wuornos was competent to choose
execution."
       "Wuornos shot to death at least six middle-aged men
along Florida highways in 1989 and 1990.  Her story has
been portrayed in two movies, three books and an opera.
She initially said the killings were in self-defense
after she was assaulted by customers who beat her up.
But she later said that the self-defense claim was a lie,
and that she intended to rob and kill the men."
       "At a hearing in July (2002), Wuornos told a judge
that she was 'sick of hearing this 'she's crazy' stuff.
I'm competent, sane and I'm telling the truth.  She also
told the (Florida) Supreme Court she would kill again."
       Aileen Wuornos "spent Tuesday night (October 8,
2002) visiting with a childhood friend, Dawn Botkins, who
said Wuornos was in a good mood, laughing a lot and never
crying."  (See USA Today for October 10, 2002, "Fla.
killer becomes the 10th woman executed since '76," page
5A.)
(Editor's Note: Neo-Nazis, Black Sun enthusiasts and a
handful of esoteric types believe that Hitler's Germany
made contact sixty years ago with an alien civilization
on a planet orbiting the star Aldebaran, 68 light-years
from Earth.  In a last-ditch effort to stave off defeat,
the Nazis launched a crude spaceship, the Vril-Odin,
which traveled to Aldebaran, seeking military assistance
against the Allies.  The ship supposedly arrived in 1967,
and now an Aldebarani space armada, consisting of "280
battle cruisers of various classes" and carriers "ranging
from 1.5 to 6 kilometers (0.9 to 3.6 miles) in length and
capable of carrying between 4 and 810 flying saucers
apiece," is said to be on its way to Earth.  The armada
is expected to arrive "in a few years or so."  Alleged to
be returning to Earth with the alien armada are such
luminaries as Jesus Christ, Adolf Hitler, David Koresh
(birth name: Vernon L. Howell--J.T.) and Elvis Presley.
The interstellar war is supposed to commence with the
obliteration of Tel Aviv.  Among believers, this conquest
of Earth by the Aldebarani is known as "The Redemption."
See the book UFOs: Unbekannt Flugobjekt?  Letzte
Geheimwaffe des Dritten Reichs by Willibald Mattern,
Samisdat Press, Toronto, 1974, pages 50, 51, and 82
through 88.)


WAILING WALL HAS ANOTHER
ENIGMATIC WATER FLOW

       Another mysterious trickle of water, known in
Forteana as a flow, began last week at the Wailing Wall
in Jerusalem.
       The new damp spot was examined by engineers on
Wednesday, October 9, 2002, who warned that "the bulge in
the wall" caused by the mysterious water flow "could lead
to collapse" of the millenia-old structure.
       On Saturday, June 29, 2002, just after sunrise,
water first began seeping from the southern Wailing Wall
at a point four meters (13 feet) above the ground.  The
wall is revered by Jews as the last remnant of the Second
Temple, which was built by King Herod in the First
Century B.C. and later destroyed by the Roman general
Titus in 70 A.D.
       The new "damp spot" is on the western Wall several
meters to the right of the spot where Hasidic Jews
worship daily.
       A prophecy in the Talmud reportedly states, "When
you see water coming through the stone, know that such is
a sign that the coming of the Messiah is nigh."
       Similar mysterious surges of water have been
documented at sites associated with apparitions of the
Virgin Mary (birth name: Miriam bat-Joachim--J.T.) such
as Cova da Iria, near Fatima, Portugal and the Grotte de
Massabielle near Lourdes, France.  A similar flow also
occurs at the tomb of St. Jean Vianney, also known as le
Cure d'Ars, which, like Lourdes, is in the Pyrenees.
       Israeli authorities attributed the June flow to a
broken water pipe on the Temple Mount.  But this has not
stopped hundreds of Jews from flocking to the Wall to
witness the phenomenon.  The new flow has drawn even more
visitors, both Jews and Arabs alike.  (See the Israeli
newspaper Ha'aratz for October 10, 2002.  Many thanks to
Rick Wiles and Ayesha al-Khatabi for this report.)


CORONER SAYS TODD SEES
DEATH WAS "ACCIDENTAL"

       Police Chief Gary Steffen of Point Township
"announced last week that Todd Sees," 39, of Northampton,
Pennsylvania (population 9,405) "who was found dead
August 6, 2002 near his home after a two-day manhunt,
died from a cocaine overdose."
       "'The immediate cause of death has been determined
to be cocaine toxicity.  The manner of death is listed as
accidental,'" a spokesman for the county coroner's office
said.
       "Toxicology analysis was done by Northumberland
County Coroner James Kelley.  These tests were requested
after the autopsy back in August failed to determine Todd
Sees's cause of death."
       Sees went missing on Sunday, August 4, 2002, after
leaving his home at the foot of Montour Ridge.  His all-
terrain vehicle was later found abandoned near the top of
the ridge.  Following an intensive search of the
mountain, Sees's body was recovered from a brushy area
near a pond close to his home.
       When Sees left home early that morning, he was fully
clothed, wearing pants, boots, socks, a camouflage vest
and hat.  When his emaciated body was found two days
later, he was wearing only underwear.  Only one of his
boots was later recovered by search parties.  The rest of
his clothing remains missing.
       "Unanswered questions remain," ufologist Linda
Moulton Howe was quoted as saying, "Why would a healthy
outdoorsman and husband, and father of two sons, go on a
Sunday morning hunting trip on August 4 (2002) and ingest
enough cocaine to kill himself?"
       "Further, what is behind the 'eyewitness reports'
about four witnesses" at a dairy farm "seeing a silver
disk over Montour Ridge and seeing a man 'drawn up into
it?'"
(See Filer's Files #41 for October 9, 2002.  Many thanks
to George A. Filer of MUFON for letting UFO Roundup quote
from his newsletter.)


  From the UFO Files...

1905: STRANGE CRUISE OF
            THE KALI YUGA

       The USA's five Great Lakes are famous for their
ghost ships.  Many are the vessels which have "sailed
away" and vanished, never to be seen again.
        Among the most famous "Ghost Ships of the Great
Lakes" are the Chicora, Bannockburn, Alpena, Marquette &
Bessemer No. 2, Cerisoles, Inkerman, Rouse Simmons, C.F.
Curtis, Annie M. Peterson, Ira H. Owen, Benjamin Noble,
Seldon E. Marvin, Clifton, Cornell, Milwaukee, D.M.
Clemson, Adella Shores, Anna C. Minch, William B. Davock
and, of course, the oddly-named Kali Yuga.
       The story begins in St. Clair, Michigan in the
spring of 1889, as shipbuilders put the finishing touches
on a brand-new wooden "oreboat" 270 feet (81 meters) long
and 40 feet (12 meters) wide.  Only three years earlier,
the Merritt brothers had opened up the Mesabi "Iron
Range" in northern Minnesota.  Tons of high-grade iron
ore were coming out of the mines and heading for the
ports of Lake Superior.  Ships were needed to ferry the
ore to the steel mills in Buffalo, N.Y. and Cleveland,
Ohio.
       The hull was quickly sold to the Cleveland Cliffs
fleet.  Her new owners cast about for a suitable name.
But nobody could think of one.
       Then a member of the company's Board of Directors
read an article about India in the Detroit Free Press.
The article made mention of the Kali Yuga, a Hindi phrase
which the newspaper translated as "the Age of Iron."
       The Board thought this would be a fine name for an
oreboat.  So a champagne bottle was swung, and the newly-
christened Kali Yuga slid down the ramp into Lake St.
Clair for her shakedown cruise.
       Trouble was, the ship's American owners
misunderstood the meaning of the phrase Kali Yuga.  They
thought it referred to the Iron Range boom in the USA's
Upper Midwest.  In actuality, the phrase Kali Yuga refers
to the last epoch in the Hindu cycle of world-ages.
       In the Vishnu Purana, time is divided into four
distinct world-ages.  First comes the Satya Yuga or
Golden Age, lasting the longest.  Then the world enters
the Treta Yuga, a less civilized and harmonious period,
which is followed by the Dvapara Yuga, an age in which
humankind has grown more violent and decadent still.
Right before oblivion comes the fourth age, the Kali
Yuga, which lasts for 400,000 years.
A better translation of the phrase Kali Yuga would be
"the Age of Chaos."
       The oreboat soon lived up to her name.  Although no
sailor ever died an accidental death aboard the Kali
Yuga, the vessel experienced some weird paranormal
phenomena.
       While downbound on Lake Huron in August 1897, the
Kali Yuga encountered an impenetrable fog.  Crewmen
taking a break on the Texas deck were startled by a
sudden sound--the barking of a large and very angy dog.
The barking and snarling, followed by a bone-chilling
howl, sounded as if they were coming from the fog a short
distance, no more than 100 feet (30 meters) away.
       But the Kali Yuga was in mid-lake at the time, at a
point about 15 miles (25 kilometers) northeast of Presque
Isle, Michigan.
       In June 1899, crewman Bob Sandover had a most
unnerving experience in a night fog on Lake Superior.
While working alone on deck, Bob saw what he thought was
a "double" of the Kali Yuga on the placid lake only 33
feet (10 meters) away.  Through the roiling mists, the
"other" deck looked identical to his, and his
doppelganger mimicked his every motion.
       Gripping the rail, Bob shouted, "Who are you?  What
are you doing out there?"
       The doppelganger stood erect slowly and faced him.
Bob gasped.  The "other" sailor was his identical double
in every detail of facial feature and dress.  The only
difference was the double's eyes, which radiated an aura
of menace.
       By way of reply, the double squatted down and
appeared to be writing something.  Then he lifted a
square piece of cardboard with a hastily-scrawled message
on it: Get off that ship!
       The double's lips curved in a sinister smile.  And
then he and his Kali Yuga shimmered and vanished.
       When the ship docked at Detroit, Bob Sandover
promptly quit and found a berth on another Great Lakes
steamer.  Never again did he set foot on the Kali Yuga.
       And there was another curious fact about the Kali
Yuga.  She could never keep to a schedule.  Season after
season, she invariably showed up late at her destination.
Her owners appointed one captain after another, but the
Kali Yuga never quite shed her reputation for a tardy
arrival.
       In 1900, Captain Fred L. Tonkin of Painesville, Ohio
took the helm for the summer.  This time, "the Kali Yuga
was long overdue" but "she showed up all right.  She had
been caught in a gale o' wind and had lost her rudder."
       And then came 1905, an ominous year in Great Lakes
history, highlighted by "a gale of November" that sank
dozens of ships and provided Duluth with her all-time
most famous shipwreck, the Mataafa.  So many ships went
down in that gale that the final fate of the Kali Yuga
has been virtually forgotten.
       On October 19, 1905, the Kali Yuga pulled up to the
iron ore docks in Marquette, Michigan, on Lake Superior's
south shore.  Once again, Fred Tonkin was her skipper,
and her chief engineer was Charles A. Sharpe of
Cleveland.  There were 16 men aboard and one woman, the
cook.
       "The weather had been bad that fall.  Lots of the
older schooners and steam barges were wrecked that
season...Nobody worried much, however, as she (the Kali
Yuga) was one of the strongest and best wooden steamers
on the lakes, and well-kept, too."
       Early the next morning, October 20, 1905, the Kali
Yuga weighed anchor and steamed away from the ore dock.
As she sailed past Marquette's distinctive red brick
lighthouse, Sharpe came to the pilothouse and pointed out
an unusual sight to Captain Tonkin.
       There, on the stony beach, stood a dozen Anishinabe
men and women, all dressed as if for powwow in bead-
worked black velveteen clothes and ceremonial
headdresses.  They all looked pretty grim as "the
medicine chief (today we say spiritual advisor--J.T.)
carried the eagle staff and chanted."
       "Who are those Indians?" he asked.
       Captain Tonkin, who had often sailed the upper
lakes, answered, "Chippewas.  Here to see us off, I
gather."
(Editor's Comment:  My guess is, the Anishinabe spiritual
advisor had a vision of what was to come, and they went
down to the shore to invoke "the One Above's" blessing on
the doomed ship.)
       There was a stiff wind, and the seas were high on
Lake Superior.  But the Kali Yuga reached Sault Sainte
Marie, Michigan safely and passed through the Soo canal
and entered Lake Huron.
       "The skipper of the Frontenac told later of seeing
her about four that afternoon some seven miles (11
kilometers) off Presque Isle Light in Lake Huron," not
far from the scene of the "barking dog" incident.  "The
master of the L.C. Waldo also reported seeing her about
dark (6:45 p.m.--J.T.) between Middle Island and Thunder
Bay Island."  A gale was blowing, "and it kicked up a
terrific big sea."
       Because of her reputation for tardiness, "no one was
unduly alarmed when she didn't show up exactly on
schedule...They figgered that maybe she put in for
shelter somewhere along the east or north shores of Lake
Huron."
       "Her sister ships of the Cliffs fleet searched hard
for her.  Her owners sent out tugs after the wind let up
to scour the lake for signs of her, but no good.  They
all came back with nothin' to say.  No wreckage, no
nothin'."
       The Kali Yuga "was lost on Lake Huron in 1905 and
never a trace of her was found...She didn't ever show up,
and nobody ever knew where she went down, nor why."  (See
the books Memories of the Lakes by David Thomas Bowen,
Freshwater Press, Inc., Cleveland, Ohio, 1969, pages 245
to 247 and Haunted Lakes by Frederick Stonehouse, Lake
Superior Port Cities, Inc., Duluth, Minn., 1997, pages
127, 148 and 149.)


       Well, that's it for this week.  Join us next time
for more UFO, Fortean and paranormal news, brought to you
by "the paper that goes home--UFO Roundup."  See you in
seven days.

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2002 by Masinaigan Productions,
all rights reserved.  Readers may post news items from
UFO Roundup on their websites or in news groups provided
that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name
and list the date of issue in which the item first
appeared.

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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   Oct > Oct 17

              Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair' -

From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 01:06:25 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 05:48:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair' -


 >From: Frank Warren <frank-warren@pacbell.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 11:09:53 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'

 >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 22:16:33 +0000
 >>Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'

<snip>

 >>What are "chemtrail sprayings?" Conjecture? Fantasy? Paranoid
 >>imagination? You talk as if I should know and accept that
 >>chemtrail sprayings" are something real and established. If so,
 >>where is the evidence, who is doing it, why, etc.?

 >>Migrating spiders are a well-known and established fact of
 >>nature.

 >>"Chemtrail sprayings" insofar as I have read on the internet are
 >>only someone's rich imagination without one iota of empirical
 >>data. People see contrails that they don't think are normal
 >>contrails, but present zero convincing evidence for this
 >>conclusion.

 >>I am very serious about this: What are "chemtrail sprayings" and
 >>how do you know it?


 >First off Dick let me take this opportunity to say that you are
 >on my "short list" of researchers/investigators/Ufologists,
 >etc., that I have the utmost respect and admiration for, and
 >it's a pleasure to "bat the ball around" with you on this issue.

 >Before I try to answer your question, "what are chemtrails?" I
 >want to reiterate that I believe what was reported in Santa Cruz
 >was/is "most likely" drifting spider webs, which I have
 >witnessed at one time or another. However, because the author
 >chose to infuse said article with "UFOs, angel hair, aerial
 >anomalies, extraterrestial beings and or a spirit presence," and
 >took the time to call an expert on "floating spider webs," he
 >didn't explore the other side of the coin of similar described
 >phenomena. With that in mind, I thought I would toss in my two
 >cents based on what was described in the article. Also I might
 >point out that "Ed Gehrman" wrote to Dr. Lewis and posted the
 >response on this list: (Good work Ed!)

 >"I have not seen the material. I was asked by the reporter what
 >kind of spider material it was. The most likely material is that
 >used by the spiders to parachute from one location to another.
 >If it is not spider silk then any comments from me don't apply.

 >So here we have a reporter quoting "an expert" who hasn't seen
 >any of the material, and or witnessed the phenomena, and
 >apparently wasn't asked an "open-ended" question, only one about
 >his expertise, i.e., "floating spider webs." I guess the this
 >modus operandi of reporting is all to common for "unusual
 >phenomenon," and quite frankly is more then a little irritating
 >to me!

 >Now, terms used for various things have a different meaning for
 >different people. For example, "UFO" to some means an
 >"extraterrestial craft" with "little gray guys" flying it around
 >our planet. For me, UFO still holds it's "original definition,"
 >but I have found when I use the term I put "verbatim" in
 >parenthesis after the word to avoid any confusion. Having said
 >that, I will endeavor to define what "Chemtrails" mean to me,
 >but to accomplish that let's start with what "contrails" are:

<snip>

 >In my previous post I used the term, "spraying," which was a
 >leap on my part, as I have not personally seen any type of
 >apparatus on these aircraft due to the distance during an
 >observation. The "grid-like pattern" left behind after this
 >activity is reminiscent of a field being systematically crop
 >dusted, hence the "spraying" comment.

 >As with the UFO subject, there is an abundance of information
 >"pro and con" about Chemtrail/contrail emissions. Like UFOs the
 >subject has drawn attention from the Air Force, enough to have
 >them make a public statement on the issue, as well as motivating
 >a member of Congress to attempt to pass a bill for our
 >government to halt any activity involving what has become known
 >as "Chemtrails." In the end, in my opinion, the phenomenon is
 >real, and warrants further investigation and study.


Hello Frank,

Regarding angel hair in Santa Cruz, as I said, I never received
a report there that was outside the spider web envelope. In
addition, scientists at the University of California at Santa
Cruz were not familiar with any non spider or insect angel hair.
That was back about ten years ago. My years as being the MUFON
man (wow, a lightbulb went off - a way for MUFON to redeem and
preserve itself would be through a film and song titled MUFON
Man, as is the hunk starring through the eyes of a MUFON field
investigator and based on real investigations) Back to
unreality, I had that position through the 1980s until 1992 when
I moved to LA. I returned and had that post again in 1996, "97,
and '98. Frank, have you talked with the person who now handles
Santa Cruz County for MUFON?

A few days ago I made a joke about the narrow fundamentalist
view that angel hair was a spirit presence of falling hairs from
fallen angels that  shortly after landing would vaporize into
demonic spirits floating in the ether; that is the paranoid
view.

Frank, you report that you have seen airplanes emmit something
other than what you know as contrails. You ask what they may be
and you also decry the lack of information. I am not going to
take a position on what are reported as chemtrails. I just have
a few suggestions if you want to learn more about your sighting.

Have you talked to the fixed base operators (people who are
responsible for an airport), operations office staff, air
traffic control staff, and pilots in your area? Have you asked
them if they saw anything on the day of your sighting? Have they
seen unusual aircraft and spray patterns on other days? Have you
talked with the MUFON rep in your area?

Those are just a couple of off the top of my head ideas for you
to learn more about your incident.


Take care,

Josh










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   Oct > Oct 17

                  CI: The 'Cliff' Reimaged: New Discoveries

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 16:50:21 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 05:52:11 -0400
Subject: CI: The 'Cliff' Reimaged: New Discoveries


Cydonian Imperative
10-15-02

The "Cliff" Reimaged: New Discoveries
by Mac Tonnies

See: http://mactonnies.com/cydonia.html

The feature known as the "Cliff" has been photographed in
visible-wavelength light by the Mars Odyssey's THEMIS camera.
This is our first look at the Cliff in its entirety since the
Viking mission took its low-resolution scan of Cydonia in the
1970s; the previous high-resolution image taken by the Mars
Global Surveyor featured a black swath indicating lost data (as
described on a previous page).

[image]

The Cliff in context.

Though the new Cliff image is not as detailed as the MGS
version, it provides more context. The nearby "splash" crater
and its ejecta apron are plainly seen, confirming the Cliff's
conspicuous placement: if the Cliff has existed prior to the
impact, it should show obvious signs of damage. Since the Cliff
appears unscathed, proponents of the Artificiality Hypothesis
argue that it was assembled after the impact. This
interpretation is supported by a network of shallow grooves
extending from the eastern edge of the Cliff to the lip of the
crater. These may be remnants of a quarry/construction site
utilizing ejecta rubble for the Cliff's tapered base.

The new image casts doubt on the so-called "Tetrahedral Rim
Pyramid." The Rim Pyramid, identified by Richard Hoagland and
subsequently incorporated into his highly mathematical "Message
of Cydonia," appears less-than-tetrahedral and more like a
natural deviation in the crater lip. Regardless, lines extending
from the center of the Tholus and through the Cliff and Rim
Pyramid produce an angle of 19.5 degrees, a recurring motif in
the Cydonia complex. Given the heavily weathered nature of some
of the Mound features, perhaps the Rim Pyramid's amorphic
condition should come as no surprise. Close-up images may tell
us more.

[image]

Fort-like platform near Cliff. Image courtesy Bob Harrison.

Meanwhile, Bob Harrison of Cydonia Quest has brought my
attention to a shallow, faceted formation north of the Cliff
that shares a startling resemblance to the Fort. Partially
buried rectilinear "cells" adorn at least one of the formation's
edge. This prompts the question: if natural, shouldn't the
"cells" have eroded away long ago? Like the Fort, the "Cliff
Platform" exhibits signs of eroding from the inside-out. An
alternative to this unlikely scenario is that the Cliff Platform
has collapsed inward, leaving small-scale peripheral detail
relatively intact.

Synthetic perspective imagery of the Fort reveals a sunken
interior consistent with a structural implosion (a collapse of
the sort thought to have deformed the eastern "chin" of the
"Face"). The Cliff Platform may be an additional example of this
phenomenon, implying unimaginable antiquity.

-end-








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   Oct > Oct 17

              Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair' -

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 21:41:46 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 05:56:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair' -


 >From: Frank Warren <frank-warren@pacbell.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 11:09:53 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'

 >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 22:16:33 +0000
 >>Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'

<snip>

 >Aside from those attributes I have also witnessed an "oily
 >appearance" in these clouds, as mentioned in many sites on the
 >internet, and have seen "spider-web looking" material in the
 >aftermath of said events. (Not on every occasion however).
 >Moreover, I have seen more then one "emission" coming from said
 >aircraft, simultaneously, which are different in shape of each
 >other. I have seen the emissions stop and start, as if they were
 >being turned "on and off" manually. (I realize there have been
 >"atmospheric explanations" for this occurence). Finally, I have
 >witnessed "normal contrail activity" at the same time of the so-
 >called "Chemtrail activity."

 >Admittedly, I have not used any scientific methodology in my
 >observations. What are these emissions? I don't know. Who is
 >doing this" I don't know?

 >For what purpose? I don't know. What I do know, is that what I
 >have witnessed does not fall into the above mentioned definition
 >of a contrail.

 >In my previous post I used the term, "spraying," which was a
 >leap on my part, as I have not personally seen any type of
 >apparatus on these aircraft due to the distance during an
 >observation. The "grid-like pattern" left behind after this
 >activity is reminiscent of a field being systematically crop
 >dusted, hence the "spraying" comment.

May I suggest that "observational aides" are in order. If you
are spending more time looking up (While keeping your feet on
the ground... we hope), you should consider having som 8 to 12
power binoc's readily available so you can "zoom in" on the rear
of a "chemtrail plane" and see if "stuff" really is being
ejected from pipes or apertures or whatever (oither than the
normal exhaust). There have been claims that a fine dust of
aluminum and bismuth (? I think that was it) has been a
constituent of "chemtrails." If so, one might look for evidence
of same in the thin layer of dust on buildings and plants below.








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   Oct > Oct 17

                         Argentine Human Mutilation

From: Albert Rosales <Garuda79@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 22:17:20 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 05:58:45 -0400
Subject: Argentine Human Mutilation


Nothing about the fireball yet, but just received an intriguing
and scary report from Argentina.

Source: Francisco Fazio, Baiz, Argentina

On Sep 14 2002 at around 2100 near the city of Cordoba Argentina
and elderly woman and her two dogs were found dead and strangely
mutilated in a field near her home.

Police are reportedly invesgigating the case but no further
details have been released. TV and radio reported the incident.




still investigating the case.

Albert







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   Oct > Oct 17

                            CUFOS Crisis And More

From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos@yahoo.es>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 14:01:01 +0200 (CEST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 06:03:11 -0400
Subject: CUFOS Crisis And More


Hi, Listmembers,

The recent exchanges regarding the present financial crisis at
CUFOS, provides some reflections on what I believe should be
objective number 1 to be accomplished by US researchers: the
acquisition of copies of the full Blue Book/AFOSI files.

Because the real nature of the UFO phenomena, whatever it is,
for sure resides there. I believe the top priority of scientific
ufology should be the full recovery and integration of all
copies of the Blue Book files, concentrating on the unknown
cases, be the official figure or the approximately 4,000
unexplained cases as estimated by McDonald in 1968.

It requires a combined effort of all the UFO manpower in the
United States, and formal (CUFOS, MUFON, FUFOR) and loose (SHG)
organizations, who should sit down together and make a plan.

 From the exterior, we see how much time you have wasted with
MJ12 and other issues that drained energy to nothing.


Best regards,

V-J








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   Oct > Oct 17

             Re: EMBLA 2002 - Hessdalen Optical & Ground Survey

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:35:55 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 06:06:39 -0400
Subject: Re: EMBLA 2002 - Hessdalen Optical & Ground Survey


 >From: Massimo Teodorani <mteodorani@ira.cnr.it>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: EMBLA 2002 - Hessdalen Optical & Ground Survey
 >Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 11:06:54 +0200

 >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >>Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 13:19:10 -0400
 >>Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 19:23:35 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: EMBLA 2002 - Hessdalen Optical & Ground Survey

 >Dear Dr. Maccabee,

 >I am trying to answer extensively to your questions. Excuse me
 >for the delay of my answer but in this period I have not much
 >time to answer to messages, because of my research on water
 >exoplanets here at CNR, on which, expecially lastly, I am
 >devoting 95% of my time.

 >>However, the paper has its problems (including some use of
 >>English which makes it difficult to understand).

 >It may be that my English comes from the Rubycon river and not
 >from the Missisippi river. Excuse me for that, anyway.

You are excused. (I cannot speak any Italian, so we must
converse in English.)

 >Your criticism deals with concepts wich are correct only in
 >general, but I am afraid that they are not pertinent to my
 >paper.

 >Therefore I think that your "lesson of optics" will be surely
 >useful to many scholars, but I also see that such a lesson has
 >very little to do with my data and the way in which I processed
 >them. My impression is that you didn't read my paper carefully,
 >or maybe, it is possible that you didn't catch some basic
 >aspects of my description probably because of my not-american
 >english, or because I didn't use the right words: excuse me for
 >that.

 >I try to explain more now, by trying to answer punctually to
 >your notes.

 >>I do not think they have correctly estimated the power level
 >>that is radiated. They have treated the image size as if were
 >>geometrically related to the actual object size while not taking
 >>into account the image growth caused by brightness. For example
 >>a dim light 10 cm in diameter will make an image of a certain
 >>size in on optical system. The size will be close to that.

 >First of all, the parameter "radius" doesn't enter in the way in
 >which the power level was estimated: the calculation is done by
 >relating the measured flux and distance (L = 4 PI d^2 x F). The
 >parameter "radius" is only explicitly present inside the Stefan-
 >Boltzmann law, but this has nothing to do with the derivation of
 >absolute luminosity from observed values.

 >Secondly, the most important lights were not saturated at all,
 >with the exception of some streetlights and one "light-flash".
 >The image growth is not considered as a real "dimension", like
 >you say. Like in astronomy, the photons have been counted inside
 >a circle containing the light-phenomenon. Only the photons are
 >considered, and not the dimensions of the image, when spherical-
 >shaped lights were taken into account.

SNIP

 >The same procedure was applied to the Hessdalen lights, the very
 >most part of which fortunately are: 1) unsaturated, 2) isolated,
 >3) very well resolved in the case of a cluster of lights.

It is important to know that the images are unsaturated, but how
do you know this? The images posted on the web site are very
bright white at the center. They certainly appear to me to be
overexposed. Did you make measurements with a densitometer to
find out the degree or level of exposure?

Here are some questions which are not clearly answered in your
paper:

a) how did you arrive at the numbers you gave for apparent
luminosity (luminous intensity in watts/steradian)?

The ASA rating of the film is 100 which means that 0.1 lux-
seconds or 0.1 lumen-sec/cm^2 provides "good exposure" (a
neutral density of about 1).

How did you determine the sensitivity of the film in ergs/cm^2
or joules/cm^2?

(Areas of the film that are overexposed have been illuminated by
1 lux-sec or more) You indicated in your table of data that the
_apparent_ power in watts (Lapp) ranged from 3.5 x 10^-5 to 9.8
x 10^-5. These numbers indicate the amount of power received by
the camera. How did you obtain these numbers?

b) What was the focal length of the lens, 70 mm or 270 mm which
took the picture of the triangle of lights?

c) What is the actual size (diameter) of the brightest
_single_ light (not the cluster of lights) that was obtained with
the 270 mm lens?

When I studied the New Zealand UFO movie film I had to do
measurements such as those mentioned above in order to estimate
the luminous intensity of an unidentified light from overexposed
images on color reversal movie film. This was reported in the
journal, Applied Optics. See

http://brumac.8k.com/NEW_ZEALAND/NZSB.html







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   Oct > Oct 17

                    Argentina: Possible Human Mutilation?

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:12:21 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 06:25:43 -0400
Subject: Argentina: Possible Human Mutilation?


The following information reached us today. It probably has *no
relation whatsoever* to the cattle mutilation wave that affected
Argentina this summer, and may be related to some sort of ritual
crime.

SOURCE: Infobae
DATE: September 15, 2002

A Macabre Discovery:
Elderly Woman Found Dead And Mutilated In Cordoba

The victim was found beside two dead dogs in advanced stages of
decomposition. The Police is trying to ascertain the cause of
the woman's death.

An elderly woman was found dead and mutilated in her dwelling in
Cordoba and the local police is trying to establish why two dead
dogs were found beside the cadaver. According to sources, police
personnel, accompanied by the deceased's nephew, reported to the
dwelling located at Amberes 8775 of the Arguello neighborhood to
the west of the city of Cordoba, and found its owner, 72 year
old Sara Margarita Priano, dead on the floor.

Sources indicate that the body was missing part of the torso,
hip and skull, and that two dead dogs lay beside it.

The judicial police is working to establish the time and causes
of death, as well as the reason behind the mutilations.
Researchers--according to the directions of the prosecutor's
office-- are trying to ascertain what relationship, if any,
exists between this case and the animal mutilations.

================================

Translation (C) 2002 Institute of Hispanic Ufology
Special Thanks to Gloria Coluchi








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   Oct > Oct 17

                         UFO Over North Seattle Area

From: John Novak <john@supremalex.org>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:38:23 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 06:28:38 -0400
Subject: UFO Over North Seattle Area


Lake Forest Park, WA:

On the evening of Tuesday 10/15/02 at approximately 7:45 PM PST,
a friend and I were in his backyard changing the oil in his van
when, facing south, I saw a large, glowing whitish-blue ball of
brilliant light move slowly across the sky at about a 60-65
degree altitude from the horizon.

I first spotted it in the sky southwest of us heading on an
eastern path, which would have put it going from over Puget
Sound towards Lake Washington, over the small cities of
Shoreline and Lake Forest Park, just north of Seattle.

The moon was out that night so we compared the size of the
object relative to us and it was about one fourth the size of
the moon.

There were two airplanes to the south of us that appeared to
change course and follow it to the east. We saw the red & white
flashing lights from the planes, but never saw any flashes from
the object that was quite a bit larger in the sky than the
airplanes.

Just before it went out of sight over the trees to the southeast
of us, it just vanished, like someone turned off the power.

The two airplanes appeared to change course at that point and
move west.

The entire sighting of the object was about 3-4 minutes.

This morning, I checked satellite information for the area at:

http://www.heavens-above.com

There were several objects passing over around that time frame,
but they don't seem to match up with the direction or brightness
of the object we saw.


--John Novak
http://www.supremalex.org







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             Re: EMBLA 2002 - Hessdalen Optical & Ground Survey

From: David G Bolton <David@dbolton.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 22:39:21 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 06:39:13 -0400
Subject: Re: EMBLA 2002 - Hessdalen Optical & Ground Survey


 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 13:19:10 -0400
 >Subject: Re: EMBLA 2002 - Hessdalen Optical & Ground Survey

 >This is a very important paper because it shows the results of
a >scientific experimental and analytical program designed to
 >understand the Hessdalen lights.

To me, there are a few aspects of this report - and in the the
way the whole "Hessdalen phenomenon" has attracted attention -
  that require a little more skeptical objectivity.

Firstly, the reasoning used in the report for dismissing hoaxes
seems rather weak. The researchers claim that to create an
equivalent "fireball" effect would take vast amounts of money
and a large technically complex operation.

However, the descriptions of the recorded "phenomenon" sound
very much like effects that could be created with fireworks or
other home-made pyrotechnics - and there is no mention of
"calibration tests" with fireworks in the report.

Secondly, as I understand, this was originally reported to be a
sporadic phenomenon - which would have required long vigils with
automatic recording equipment for any instances to be captured
on film. However, during the period of the study, "lightball"
activity occured almost daily - with most occurances being
between 10pm and midnight. Its interesting that this "natural"
phenomenon seems to adhere to such a human-friendly pattern.

Thirdly, the odd VLF radio signals that have been claimed to be
associated with the phenomenon sound like they could be auroral
electrophonic effects. Have a look at "Stephen P. McGreevy's
ground-based ELF-VLF recordings" website at:

http://www-pw.physics.uiowa.edu/mcgreevy/

It seems that the presence of VLF signals in the valley is used
as evidence that the lights are "real". However, the latitude
of the valley will ensure that VLF signals will always be picked
up regardless of any other "earthlight" phenomena.

Fourthly (if there is such a word), details of the "powder"
found at the site of a reported "light" apparently revealed iron
microgranules. Coincidentally, iron filings are an ingredient of
many fireworks.

Ultimately, investigations like this are always going to be
dogged by hoaxers. A perfect example would be the crop circle
phenomenon - where groups of enthusiastic researchers came into
an area, announced their presence through the press and/or by
interviewing lots of locals, and literally "set themselves up"
as targets for anyone with a wicked sense of humour.

Also, as was seen with Dr Terrence Meaden's crop circle
investigations, scientists are not immune to being hoaxed.

Of course, some of the "earthlights" at Hessdalen may well be
genuine - but if researchers can't filter-out the inevitable
hoaxes then all recorded data will have to be treated with
caution.


--
David G Bolton
David@DBolton.co.uk
http://www.dbolton.co.uk/







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   Oct > Oct 17

                     Re: Jimmy Carter The Nobel Prize &

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 21:42:36 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 06:42:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Jimmy Carter The Nobel Prize &


 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 19:56:38 EDT
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Subject: Re: Jimmy Carter The Nobel Prize & Extraterrestrials

 >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 22:29:30 +0000
 >>Subject: Re: Jimmy Carter The Nobel Prize & Extraterrestrials

 >>>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 21:10:09 EDT
 >>>Subject: Re: Jimmy Carter The Nobel Prize & Extraterrestrials

 >>>>From: Grant Cameron <presidentialufo@presidency.com>
 >>>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>>Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 15:08:32 -0500
 >>>>Subject: Jimmy Carter The Nobel Prize & Extraterrestrials

 >>>>his sighting of a strange unidentified object in Leary, Georgia
 >>>>in 1969.

 >>>This famous IFO was actually the planet Venus, as determined by
 >>>Robert Sheaffer many years ago and published in The Humanist,
 >>>July-August 1977, p. 46.

 >>>The problem was that Carter was mistaken about the date
 >>>when recounting it years later.  Sheaffer got to the bottom of it.

 >>Was it now? Absolutely and with great certainty? Although I
 >>recognize that it _may_ have been Venus, anyone who believes
 >>Robert Sheaffer is an accurate and reliable reporter of anything
 >>hasn't done his homework. You cite him as an authoritative
 >>source, not to be questioned.

 >No, I cited his published report of his investigation, which
 >details how he obtained Carter's original written report, which
 >revealed the facts of the incident.  Venus was just where Carter
 >looked. This allowed Sheaffer to locate others who had been
 >there, but who didn't remember seeing anything out of the
 >ordinary.

 >I didn't just take Sheaffer's word for it, and I don't expect
 >you or other Listers to, which is why I provided the URL so that
 >they can judge for themselves.

 >>Well now, at the (in)famous abduction conference at M.I.T. I
 >>had just participated in a panel discussion on worldwide
 >>abduction reports, and during a break Sheaffer aggressively
 >>addressed me in the corridor asking, "If abduction cases are
 >>real, why are they only reported in North America?" We had just
 >>reviewed cases from all over the world!

 >What is the number of abduction claims/100,000 people, say, in
 >other countries of the world, compared to the US?  Or the number
 >of claims compared to UFO reports?  He may have a very valid
 >point, albeit overstated.

 >>Some day I may publish my memoirs.

 >Why wait? Jim Moseley has just published his and, goodness
 >knows, the Ufology sure could use another belly laugh right now.


No, Bob, Sheaffer has no valid point at all. He simply displayed
pig-headed refusal to listen to what well-informed people were
saying and instead spouted totally counter-to-fact nonsense in
his passionate zeal to get rid of a problem that obviously
offends him (and you; and Klass; etc.)

You want belly laughs?

Then listen to the absurdly illogical mutterings of the very
people whom you seem to hold up as 'authorities' if not 'idols'.
Name any non-trivial case you wish that Sheaffer has commented
on and I will respond to it.


  - Dick








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   Oct > Oct 17

                 EW: New Roper Poll 'Americans Ready for ET'

From: Kurt Jonach - The Electric Warrio=20
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 18:27:49 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 06:47:33 -0400
Subject: EW: New Roper Poll 'Americans Ready for ET'

--------------------------------------------------

The Electric Warrior : Web Log October 16, 2002
http://www.electricwarrior.com/

--------------------------------------------------
=BB AMERICANS SAY THEY'RE READY FOR ET
ufo & extraterrestrial intelligence

artwork: Electrogravitic Saucer (Classic UFO)
http://www.electricwarrior.com/expose/ewClassicSaucer1Thumb.jpg

(The Electric Warrior) - Most people who engage in popular
online discussions about ET, UFOs and an official government
cover-up will probably tell you they're on the fringe. But if a
new Roper poll sponsored by the SCI-FI Channel is right, then an
overwhelming majority of the American public thinks ET is out
there and the Powers That Be simply aren't telling the truth.

According to Business Wire, a national opinion poll says
about two-thirds of the populace believe the government is not
telling everything it knows about ET & UFOs. The younger you
are, the more likely you'll agree. Furthermore, most of you -
  especially if you are male - would say that if national
security isn't at risk then the truth should be told.

For the past fifty years or so Big Media has mostly ignored the
topic, supporting the notion that people aren't ready for the
truth, whatever that might be. It would seem that in spite of
the fact that there is seemingly no concrete evidence in support
of extraterrestrial intelligence most people are open to the
idea.

Is that the way it is? Are you ready?

--------------------------------------------------
RELATED RESOURCES

15-Oct-02
Is the Government Hiding Facts On UFOs &
Extraterrestrial Life?; New Roper Poll Reveals that
More Than Two-Thirds of Americans Think So
http://www.businesswire.com/

(Business Wire) NEW YORK - A national opinion poll
released today found that 72% of Americans believe
the government is not telling the public everything
it knows about UFO activity and 68% think the
government knows more about extraterrestrial life
than it is letting on.

Americans are not only suspending their disbelief
at the movies, but they are also suspending it in
the real world. Sponsored by SCI FI Channel, the
poll revealed that men consistently more than women
think such information should be shared with the
public. Also, the younger you are the stronger your
belief that the government is withholding
information about UFOs and extraterrestrial life.

Most Americans say that the government does not
share enough information with the public in general
(55%) and that by and large when national security
is not at risk, the U.S. government should not
withhold information about UFO sightings (60%)
and potential encounters with extraterrestrial
life (58%).

--------------------------------------------------
THE ELECTRIC WARRIOR
October 16, 2002
Silicon Valley, CA
http://www.electricwarrior.com

Graphics & Gonzo

--------------------------------------------------
This text is freely distributable for non-commercial
purposes, provided you cite The Electric Warrior.
Web developers should link here...

http://www.electricwarrior.com

Readers are strongly cautioned that The Electric Warrior asserts
it is OK to laugh and have a good time with some of this stuff.
Lighten Up! (You Have Been Warned)

Images are created exclusively for the Electric Warrior Website.
They can be downloaded and cached for individual use, but may
not be reproduced or used in any other context without
permission.

The Electric Warrior is not responsible for the content of Web
links. Content reproduced here is for informational purposes
only. All copyrights Acknowledged.

eWarrior@electricwarrior.com











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   Oct > Oct 17

                  Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 23:54:54 -0300
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 06:53:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Ledger


 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 10:53:18 EDT
 >Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs?

 >>From: Geoff Dittman <gdittman@shaw.ca>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 04:55:08 +0300
 >>Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs?

 ><snip>

 >>I put up a website some time ago on cases involving injury and
 >>death. The front page is located at:

 >>http://www.geocities.com/area51/rampart/2653/sixthkind.html

 ><snip>

 >>The vast majority of cases are of situations where the injury
 >>was directly traceable to the sighting.

 >Geoff:

 >This is an interesting list and I admire your effort. You have
 >made a breathtaking claim, here. Can we take it that you have
 >positively identified the cause of the UFOs in the vast majority
 >of these incidents?


Hi,

One of the most obvious, I would suggest, is the Valentich case.


Best,

Don Ledger







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              Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair' -

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 01:24:25 -0300
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 06:56:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair' -


 >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'
 >Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 10:28:56 -0700

 >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 22:39:35 +0000
 >>Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'

 >>>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'
 >>>Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 11:59:44 -0700

 >>>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >>>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>>Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 22:16:33 +0000
 >>>>Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'

 >><snip>

 >>>>What are "chemtrail sprayings?" Conjecture? Fantasy? Paranoid
 >>>>imagination? You talk as if I should know and accept that
 >>>>"chemtrail sprayings" are something real and established. If so,
 >>>>where is the evidence, who is doing it, why, etc.?


Hi Dick,

Dick Haines forwarded a list of Presidential Executive orders to
me some months ago and imbedded in those orders was one which
alluded to the continued use of aluminum particles and barium
release in the atmosphere to combat global warming through
aerial " the so-called chem trails" spraying.

This shocked me because I'd always blown them off as normal con
trails save one time.....

A friend [Kevin] and I were flying our respective aircraft in a
loose formation southwest down the central spine of Nova Scotia
about 20 miles southwest of the Straight of Canso [separates
Cape Breton from mainland NS].

We were at 8,000 feet [to get above turbulence] when Kevin told
me to look up. His aircraft has a bubble canopy as opposed to my
[then] Cessna 172 with its overhead wing.

But above me and somewhat forward was an aircraft, I'd guess a
Starlifter, traveling in the same direction at about 20,000 feet
and spewing something from the tail and not the engines.

What also made this a little different than normal was the small
jet [pretty sure it was an F-16] keeping formation at the
Starlifter's 8 o'clock position.

At perhaps only 12,000 feet above me and Kevin, this was quite
close and well defined against a clear blue sky. Even Kevin
noted this as an anomaly at such a low altitude and spewing a
billowing stream of some condesate or whatever.

One point. The altitude is and was consistent with an allowable
and mandated USAF refueling corridor over NS on Victor Airway
312. We speculated over our radios at the time as to whether the
heavy was dumping fuel and shepherded by the F-16, however a
check of CFB Greenwood and YHZ in Halifax later revealed no
emergency process during that time frame.


FYI.

Best,

Don Ledger






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   Oct > Oct 17

                  Mysterious Metal Fragment From Crash Site

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 06:41:48 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 07:00:14 -0400
Subject: Mysterious Metal Fragment From Crash Site


Source: Pravda.RU,

http://english.pravda.ru/main/2002/10/16/38231.html

Kandalaksha is situated on the southern shore of the Kola Peninsula.

Stig

***

2002.10.16/16:07

Artifact from Kandalaksha

**

Two years ago, I received a gray metal fragment, which was
unusually heavy for its size. The man who gave me the piece
alleged that he had brought it from an expedition made to the
Russian city of Kandalaksha in 1991, to the place where the
catastrophe of an unidentified flying object was allegedly
observed. The original weight of the fragment had been of about
10 kg, and it was of a larger size. However, it was later cut up
into pieces and sent to different research and UFO groups for
tests. The researchers say that it was a piece of tungsten with
an unbelievably high density. However, provisional measuring
revealed a lower density than tungsten traditionally has: 17.5
grams per cubic centimeter (the standard density is 19.3 grams
per cubic centimeter).

I performed tests on the metal fragment at the laboratory of the
Perm State Technical University on January 26, 2001. The tests
revealed that tungsten made up 99.9% of the fragment's
composition. Candidate of Technical Sciences Gavrilov, the man
who performed the tests, said that, most likely, the fragment
was a part of a large ring, whose technical purpose wasn't
clear. I agreed to meet with Academician Kleiner from the
Russian Academy of Sciences, and I hope he will explain the
functions of the construction and its probable practical
application.

It is necessary to find out how such tungsten rings might be
used. It is not ruled out that it is missile technology and
probably is a part of a missile booster. Otherwise, it's not
clear how the technological object could drop onto a remote part
of the Kola Peninsula.

I would like to know your suggestions and ideas concerning this
strange metal object.

Nikolay Subbotin
PRAVDA.Ru
Nikolay.Subbotin@psu.ru

Translated by Maria Gousseva

**

=A91999 "Pravda.RU". When reproducing our materials in whole or in part,
reference to Pravda.RU should be made.






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   Oct > Oct 17

                   Raelians Take Swing At Catholic Church

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 07:32:53 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 07:05:57 -0400
Subject: Raelians Take Swing At Catholic Church


Source: The Globe And Mail (Toronto),

http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/PEstory/TGAM/200210
15/URAELN/national/national/national_temp/3/3/18/

Stig

***

Oddball Raelians take a wild swing at Catholic church

By INGRID PERITZ

Tuesday, October 15, 2002 -- Print Edition, Page A1

**

MONTREAL - As long as they stuck to wacky topics such as cloning
humans and communing with little green men in spaceships, the
Quebec sect known as the Raelians never really bothered anyone.

But the group's latest gambit has crossed the line from loopy to
offensive for many people in the province, including several
school boards and the Roman Catholic Church.

For the past few weeks, sect followers have gathered in front of
high schools and colleges in Quebec, urging students to renounce
their Catholicism and get "de-baptized."

They hand out pamphlets illustrated with a burning cross. At
times, they have handed out wooden crosses, too.

Even in a province that has largely abandoned churchgoing and
happily indulged the offbeat, the latest campaign has been hard
to swallow.

"When you start attacking other people's symbols, you're bound
to inflame passions," Laval University sociologist Simon
Langlois said.

Until now, most Quebeckers viewed the Raelians as an amusing but
benign bunch who liked to practise free love. The group operates
a theme park called UFOland in Quebec's Eastern Townships; their
leader is a former would-be racing-car driver known as Rael
whose futuristic white outfits make him look like a barber on
Star Trek. The group has always had a flair for marketing, but
the imagery in its latest campaign has brought only unflattering
comparisons with the Ku Klux Klan.

The Quebec Assembly of Bishops called the sect's efforts an
"incitement to hatred." Commentators are enraged.

"The sect has slipped into troubled waters. It has become
offensive," Jean-Marc Beaudoin wrote in a column in Le
Nouvelliste of Trois-Rivieres, where the Raelians recently
stopped. Their campaign sends a "brutal message" to young
people, he wrote.

"It's a warlike gesture, a crusade."

Sylvie Fortin of the CEGEP Fran=E7ois-Xavier Garneau, a college
targeted briefly by the Raelians last week, said the campaign
left her incredulous.

"They're using schools to spread propaganda. Schools have ceased
being places for teaching and become like big shopping malls
where you throw everything together. It's completely
inappropriate."

Efforts by school boards to get Raelians to keep their distance
have so far failed. The Chemin-du-Roy board in Trois-Rivieres
argued that the group would harass its teenage students. But
Superior Court Judge Michel Richard concluded that the Raelians'
rights were protected by the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

The Raelians have always had a genius for publicity - they
distributed free condoms outside high schools in the early 1990s
- and the latest campaign seems to be another coup. The
controversial school visits have tended to attract lots of
security officers, a few students and a large contingent of
journalists.

Rael, a Frenchman whose real name is Claude Vorilhon, has drawn
the spotlight since he began spreading word that an olive-
skinned extraterrestrial emerged from a spaceship in 1973 and
delivered the news: Earthlings had been created by aliens in a
lab 25,000 years ago.

Today, the group says its following has mushroomed to 50,000
people in 84 countries, interest fuelled in no small part by the
group's belief in nude meditation.

The sect's profile began to rise in the late 1990s, after Dolly
the sheep was created and the cloning debate took off. In 1998,
Rael announced that aliens would be boarding their UFOs and
heading to Earth, and young female followers would volunteer as
hostesses and sexual mates.

With a promise to turn out a cloned human being, the Raelians
became players in one of the most serious and explosive debates
around. Rael himself was invited to testify before the U.S.
Congress.

He showed up with his hair tied up in a knot - a coif he says
improves communication with his alien buddies.

The crusade against the Roman Catholic Church grew out of the
group's opposition to traditional religions. After Sept. 11,
Rael declared monotheism the "root of evil". The sex-abuse
scandals in the Catholic Church in the United States spurred the
group to step up its antichurch campaign.

No one is quite sure how the de-baptizing efforts will work with
today's students, already subjected to the marketing muscle of
Nike and Gap. Ms. Fortin said students these days are far more
concerned about globalization than religion.

Typical is Gabriel Talbot-Lachance, who picked up one of the
Raelians' pamphlets at his college in Quebec City. The 21- year-
old student was baptized and now considers himself an atheist.
Part of him is curious about the Raelians, although he finds
them a bit of a chuckle, he acknowleged.

Still, going through de-baptism does not seem worth the effort,
he said. And besides, he added, "I wouldn't want to hurt my
grandparents' feelings."

**

Copyright =A9 2002 Bell Globemedia Interactive Inc. All Rights
Reserved.









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              Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair' -

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 22:42:28 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 07:23:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair' -


 >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'
 >Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:32:18 -0700

 >>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren@pacbell.net>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 11:09:53 -0700
 >>Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'

 >>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 22:16:33 +0000
 >>>Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'

 >>>"Chemtrail sprayings" insofar as I have read on the internet are
 >>>only someone's rich imagination without one iota of empirical
 >>>data. People see contrails that they don't think are normal
 >>>contrails, but present zero convincing evidence for this
 >>>conclusion.

 >>...

 >For what it's worth, I have observed this phenomenon myself,
 >over my home in Glendale, AZ, although not to the degree that it
 >turned the sky overcast(!). I observed low-altitude contrails
 >that criss-crossed in a "hatch" pattern. The trails seemed to
 >endure and hold their shape for a much longer period of time
 >than normal contrails. This was way before I had ever heard the
 >term "chemtrails."

 >==JJS==

Here's a word of caution about 'normal contrails'. They normally
die out promptly, several aircraft lengths behind the high-
  flying jet on clear days with (weak) large-scale sinking motion
in the air aloft (around 30-35,000 ft). Those are days when the
sky is bluer than usual, often there are no high clouds around
at all, and these conditions usually occur shortly after a cold
front has passed by.

On days with (weak) large-scale upward motion aloft, which
usually produces at least a few wispy cirrus clouds, it is
_normal_ for the high-flying jet trails to persist up to hours
(30-35,000 ft). They often then widen somewhat. Conditions for
this usually occur prior to arrival of a cold front. If there
are frequent flights in a north-south airlane over your area,
for example, then a prevailing west wind carries these
persisting contrails eastward, leading to a series of parallel,
widening contrail swaths, some of which may join together to
produce a high partial overcast.

All this is normal. However, I can't speak to abnormal
conditions of low-flying releases of material in a cross-hatched
coverage. Haven't ever seen that (in western Oregon).


Jim Deardorff






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   Oct > Oct 17

                 Triangular UFO Observed In Western Slovakia

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 07:49:46 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 07:25:35 -0400
Subject: Triangular UFO Observed In Western Slovakia


Source: The Slovak Spectator International Weekly

http://www.slovakspectator.sk/clanok.asp?vyd=3D2002039&rub=3Dspect_feat&cl=
=3D10730

Stig

***

October 14 - 20,2002, Volume 8, Number 39

Around Slovakia

<snip>

Trnava

Triangular UFO spotted

**

A three-sided UFO was recently spotted by a woman in the western
Slovak town of Jaslovske Bohunice. The woman said she was
awakened by strange sounds at 01:30, according to Miroslav
Karlik, a member of a UFO club in Trnava.

When she looked out of her window, she spotted a lit triangular
object moving above the town.

"It was moving east and west, stopping from time to time, and
was visible from her window," Karlik said.

**

Copyright =A9 1998-99 The Rock spol. s r.o. All rights reserved.
Web design, technology & hosting, Bit-Media, s.r.o.








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   Oct > Oct 17

               UFOs And... [was: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 23:34:36 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 07:31:46 -0400
Subject: UFOs And... [was: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of


 >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'
 >Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 10:28:56 -0700

 >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 22:39:35 +0000
 >>Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'

 >>>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'
 >>>Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 11:59:44 -0700

 >>>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >>>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>>Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 22:16:33 +0000
 >>>>Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'

 >You're the one asserting that this material is spider web. What
 >is your evidence? I will grant that the angel hair conglomerate
 >sometimes has baby spiders in it but it also contains many other
 >substances and chemicals. Perhaps we should focus on how all
 >these various substances accumulate and then disperse over very
 >large areas. And why do you seem to deny the witness testimony
 >that angel hair falls are often accompanied by observations of
 >UFO? This may be one UFO mystery that if we put our heads
 >together, we could solve.

Just out of curiosity, why does it seem like _every_ strange or
out-of-the-ordinary occurence is almost _automatically_
accompanied by reports of UFOS?

Bigfoot sighted - UFO reported in area. Chupacabras? UFOs. Crop
Circles... and UFOS. Cattle Mutes... and UFOs. Massive Power
Failure in Northeast... UFOs seen near main power station. Space
Shuttle Explodes... UFOs sighted near launch tower. It's so bad
that I was able to predict that someone would report a UFO near
the World Trade Center on 9/11... and as I recall, they did.

I dunno, gang, this sounds a little psycho-social to me. At what
point do we say, OK, something strange happened, let's _ignore_
the concomitant UFO reports, because we know _someone_ will say
they saw one in the area "just before it happened".

Sound blasphemous, coming from a basically pro-Ufologist? Can't
help it, the only alternative is to regard UFOs as some kind of
otherworldly Kilroy or Joe Brfsk.


==JJS==







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   Oct > Oct 17

                 New Roper Poll/Sci Fi Channel Press Release

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 07:56:15 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 07:56:15 -0400
Subject: New Roper Poll/Sci Fi Channel Press Release

http://www.businesswire.com/cgi-bin/f_headline.cgi?bw.101502/222882608

BW2608  OCT 15,2002   10:34 PACIFIC  13:34 EASTERN

(BW)(NY-SCI-FI-CHANNEL/UFO)

Is the Government Hiding Facts On UFOs & Extraterrestrial Life?;
New Roper Poll Reveals that More Than Two-Thirds of Americans
Think So

Entertainment Editors and Consumer/Lifestyle Writers

NEW YORK--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Oct. 15, 2002--With last week's
detection of a miniplanet in our own solar system, can the
discovery of extraterrestrial life be far behind?

A national opinion poll released today found that 72% of
Americans believe the government is not telling the public
everything it knows about UFO activity and 68% think the
government knows more about extraterrestrial life than it is
letting on.

Americans are not only suspending their disbelief at the movies,
but they are also suspending it in the real world. Sponsored by
SCI FI Channel, the poll revealed that men consistently more
than women think such information should be shared with the
public. Also, the younger you are the stronger your belief that
the government is withholding information about UFOs and
extraterrestrial life. According to the poll, 80% of 18-24 year
olds, 75% of 25-34 year olds, and 73% of 35-49 year olds say
that the government is hiding information about UFOs.

"There is a reason why six of the top 10 grossing motion
pictures probe the topic of science fiction," said Bonnie
Hammer, SCI FI Channel's President. "People are curious,
intrigued by the possibility of other life forms, and want to
know more. At that point the entertainment stops and reality
steps in." Hammer is currently developing Steven Spielberg's 20-
hour epic science fiction miniseries TAKEN. Scheduled to
premiere in December on SCI FI Channel, TAKEN is a sweeping
drama that weaves together the lives of three families over four
generations and their crucial roles in the history of the UFO
phenomenon and government conspiracy.

Americans' overall trust in the government is also an issue. The
poll revealed that while just over half (53%) of Americans say
that their level of trust in the government has remained stable
over the past five years, nearly a third (29%) say that they
trust the government less than they did five years ago.

Most Americans say that the government does not share enough
information with the public in general (55%) and that by and
large when national security is not at risk, the U.S. government
should not withhold information about UFO sightings (60%) and
potential encounters with extraterrestrial life (58%).

This study was conducted by RoperASW among a representative
sample of 1,021 adults ages 18 and over. The telephone
interviews were conducted from August 23rd through August 25th,
2002. The margin of error for the total sample is +/- 3%.

RoperASW, with offices in the U.S., Europe and Asia, is a
leading provider of world class market research. RoperASW is
part of NOP World, one of the world's largest market research
companies.

SCI FI Channel transmits fantastic images to 79 million human
homes. Launched in 1992, SCI FI features a continuous stream of
cinematic hits, new and original series, and special events, as
well as classic sci-fi, fantasy, and horror programming. Check
out SCIFI.COM(R), the SCI FI Channel's award-winning Web site,
at www.scifi.com. SCI FI Channel is a program service of
Universal Television (www.universalstudios.com), a division of
Vivendi UNIVERSAL Entertainment (VUE), the U.S.-based film,
television and recreation entity of Vivendi Universal, a global
media and communications company.

--30--rc/ny*

CONTACT: SCI FI Channel
  Trade
  Kat Stein, 212/413-5890
  kstein@usacable.net
  or
  Consumer
  Jean Guerin, 212/413-5159
  jguerin@usacable.net

KEYWORD: NEW YORK
INDUSTRY KEYWORD: CABLE CONSUMER/HOUSEHOLD ENTERTAINMENT
TELEVISION/RADIO
SOURCE: SCI FI Channel

=A92002


[UFO UpDates thanks http://www.anomalist.com/ for the lead]





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                      Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs?

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 08:10:00 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 08:10:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs?

ebk

_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

Source: Fortean Times

http://forteantimes.com/articles/160_anolaima.shtml

SPIRIT IN THE SKY

How much are paranormal investigators missing because they are
locked into the UFO explanation? In a case involving local
folklore, mysterious lights and spooked rabbits, ALAN MURDIE
demonstrates the value of re-opening old files and approaching
them with an open mind. He asks what really killed a Colombian
farmer in 1969?

This is one of those stories that becomes increasingly baffling
the more its circumstances are re-examined. Elements of it will
satisfy conventional UFO theorists, psycho-social explainers and
even conspiracy buffs, but, 32 years later, the Bermudez family
is still without final answers as to why 54year-old Arcesio
Bermudez (pictured left), a father and uncle, died after an
encounter with an unexplained flying object seen by multiple
witnesses.

On 5 July 1969, the Bermudez family saw a strange light outside
their farm near Anolaima, Colombia. The father, Arcesio Bermudez
(left, from his death certificate), followed the light down a
hill on foot. He came back frightened, saying he had seen a
little man in the light. Soon afterwards, he became ill and was
driven to a Bogota hospital, where he died a week later. Unaware
of the alleged UFO link, the doctors at the autopsy thought the
cause of death was due to a low body temperature and food
poisoning.

The curious death of Arcesio Bermudez entered the UFO canon when
it was retold in classics such as John A Keel's Operation Trojan
Horse and Jacques Vallee's Confrontations1. The incident was
investigated in 1969 by America's Aerial Phenomena Research
Organisation (APRO), who sent a team to Colombia to interview
witnesses and the coroners.

These were the basic claims that I had read before two Colombian
friends and I visited Anolaima on 7 October 2000. I had checked
the press archives at the central library in Bogota and found
the story appeared first in El Tiempo, the leading Colombian
daily, on 16 July 1969. Thirteen people had seen the unexplained
light; the article gave details of six witnesses and named the
farm as 'Tocarema', though it did not give a precise location.
The sighting was on 4 July not 5 July, and the article treated
the report as a genuinely mysterious event. The death of Arcesio
was not immediately linked to a UFO.

Anolaima is a small town high in the Andes, two hours' drive
from Bogota. Once you leave the capital, the road becomes little
more than a trail in parts. We asked a man who was repairing the
road for directions to Tocarema. He replied that Tocarema was
the name of the whole district, and our hearts sank as we looked
on the broad vista of hills and mountain peaks. Still
optimistic, we decided to ask at a nearby farm, which - luckily
- was owned by a member of the Bermudez family.

The tenant, a cheerful lady, knew nearly all the people
mentioned in the El Tiempo article and had heard the story from
them many times. The light had come very close to the farm; and
Arcesio Bermudez had chased and shot at it. People were still
seeing platillos voladores (flying saucers) in the area. She
gave us directions to Tocarema and to Luis Caravajal, named in
the article as one of the witnesses.

It was easy to locate Tocarema, a single-storey, colonial-style
building. It looked new and smart, and we were later to find out
why. It stands near the edge of a very steep slope and is
surrounded by tall trees; any low-level aerial object
approaching the farm would have to have been highly
manoeuvrable. Unfortunately, the owner was away and the
caretaker - who had been in the post for 14 years - knew nothing
of the story other than details supplied by a Colombian TV crew
who had called at the farm in the mid-1990s.

We located the nearby farm of Luis Caravajal and found him home.
A man in his early 50s, he was reluctant to be interviewed,
speaking to us from the other side of a high metal gate. His
comments were contradictory and he denied having been at
Tocarema on that tragic occasion. His wife had been there, but
he had been on a bus at the time. He did not believe in UFOs or
the supernatural and could tell us nothing about any strange
phenomena in Anolaima. Arcesio Bermudez had shone a torch at the
light, he said, not fired a gun. He agreed to pass on our
contact details to his wife, but she did not call us.

Leaving Senor Caravajal, we returned to the road outside
Tocarema and took some refreshment at a roadside kiosk. Several
customers had heard of UFO sightings; one - a fit, active 70-
year-old named Primitivo Moneada - provided an entirely new
perspective on the story. He had lived in Anolaima all his life
and knew Tocarerria's history. It had been built in the 1930s,
he said, and owned by an American and by a local doctor before
being bought by the Bennudez family, who were important local
people (Arcesio's brother had been a district governor).

Primitivo (above) explained the local interpretation of the
light seen in 1969. To the people of Anolaima, the light was
regarded as a guacha or 'spirit light'. It returned to the lane
outside Tocarema the week after Arcesio Bermudez died.
Traditions in Anolaima maintained that the farm stood on the
site of the temple of an indigenous chief. He had built an altar
of skulls and buried his treasure there; the light was seen as a
sign of buried gold. Once the Bermudez family had moved out in
1969, Primitivo and other locals moved in and begun searching
for the treasure. Unfortunately, only a few coins turned up
despite days of digging and tunnelling which had undermined and
damaged the building.

Like many other cultures throughout the world, Colombia has a
rich tradition of strange lights. They are interpreted as
ghosts, treasure lights, or warnings of death2. Finally, in a
truly folkloric touch, Primitivo mentioned the strange behaviour
of rabbits in the area before and after the sighting. They
strayed onto roads around Tocarema and blocked traffic, but none
of them could be caught. This peculiar phenomenon was one of the
strange omens associated with the site. At this point it seemed
as if the Anolaima incident was dissolving into a traditional
Colombian ghost story. Although leading UFO writers had labelled
it a UFO case, locals saw it as part of their country's rich
ghostlore of phantom lights.

Three weeks later, back in the UK, I delivered a paper on
Colombian spirit beliefs at a folklore conference in Edinburgh
and mentioned the Anolaima stories. At the end of my talk, I was
approached by an archaeologist with a strong interest in fortean
topics. He asked me: "Who was the first person said to have been
abducted by aliens?" Betty and Barney Hill, I ventured. Then, on
second thoughts, I suggested the notorious tale of the Brazilian
farmer Antonio Villas-Boas, allegedly kidnapped in 1957. "No,"
he said, "it was Bugs Bunny!" A 1940s Bugs Bunny cartoon
featured the rabbit being whisked off by a flying saucer, and
there are a few other links between rabbits and UFOs in modem
folklore3.

This seemed to fix the Anolaima story as a modem myth - Western
ufologists over-laying their interpretations on those of a
different culture. However, this comfortable interpretation left
me uneasy: folk tales do not kill people. What had happened to
Arcesio Bermudez? I was determined to trace a member of the
Bermudez's immediate family to learn their version of the
events, and on a subsequent visit to Colombia, in July 2001, I
managed to trace Gustavo Bermudez,Arcesio's nephew.

He was initially reluctant to be interviewed and it took several
attempts to arrange a meeting at his office in Bogota, but he
was soon very forthcoming and shared a number of previously
unpublished details about the case. I learned more of Arcesio,
whose identity documents Gustavo preserves. He also produced a
second press report from the time, which detailed the work
undertaken by APRO, one of the first of a number of UFO
investigation groups which looked into the case in 1969. The
article reproduced sketches made by members of the family who
still stand by their statements4.

My first question to Senor Bermudez was whether the press
coverage had been accurate. In part, he replied. Around 35
people had been at Tocarema on Friday, 4 July, a holiday period.
Everyone had seen the light, and one of the children had shone a
torch at it.

Accompanied by the farm's night watchman, Arcesio Bermudez had
followed the light down the slope. It stopped about 200 metres
(219 yards) away, near a plantation. Coming closer to the light,
he thought he saw a figure within the light itself. Family
members told the press, the following week, that the figure
resembled the cartoon images of astronauts which had appeared in
the Sunday press two days after the sighting5.

On catching up with the light, Arcesio had shone a torch at it;
he certainly had not fired a gun, Gustavo insisted. The light
immediately seemed to react, increasing in brightness, then
rising vertically and shooting off at high speed and vanishing
over the hill. Gustavo Bermudez also confirmed the facts of his
uncle's death. Soon after seeing the light, Arcesio had returned
to the farmhouse and complained of being cold and feeling
unwell. His condition worsened, and eventually Arcesio was taken
to a Bogota hospital, two hours' drive away.

At this point, Gustavo was able to put me in touch with Dr
Alfred Rodriguez from Varranquiera on the Atlantic coast, who
reviewed the records from the emergency room where Arcesio was
taken. Dr Rodriguez speaks good English and, in a telephone
conversation with me, explained that there were strange elements
to the death - the low body temperature and dark bleeding from
the rectum. Arcesio was vomiting, and his low temperature did
not respond to any physical measures such as warm blankets and
warm fluids. Dehydration and hypothermia contributed to his
death.

Dr Rodriguez's subsequent attempts to access the records have
met with bureaucratic obstacles; it seems the medical
authorities are not keen for the matter to be re-examined. But
the most peculiar feature, in his opinion, was the low body
temperature. Death from hypothermia is unusual in Colombia in
July; however, readers of Fortean Times may recall an earlier
article linking low body temperatures with alleged 'UFO deaths'
in the USA, in the 1960s6.

I asked Senor Bermudez about the spirit light beliefs. He was
dismissive of the guacha ideas of locals people; the light was
not a spiritual or ethereal manifestation, he believed, but had
a physical existence of some kind, one which reacted to the
presence of observers.

He told me that since 1969, members of the Bermudez family have
met with members of Colombian UFO groups, but are not involved
in any group. Members of the Bermudez family have also been
interviewed by investigators from Spain and the USA, including
individuals claiming a remit from NASA. The Bermudez family
have, since, been the victim of hoaxers posing as UFO
investigators, one of the most suspicious being a seemingly
well-informed Frenchman whose identity and credentials turned
out to be entirely false.

While they may have been victims of hoaxers, bona fide
researchers have accepted their testimony as completely genuine.
I have found no reason to doubt their honesty nor noted anything
from the area which could provide an explanation, and neither
has any other researcher. Though the history of UFOs is riddled
with hoaxing, people do not, as a rule, launch hoaxes based
around the bodies of recently deceased family members.

But there is a further, astonishing, detail which I had heard in
Anolaima months before and dismissed as a malicious rumour. It
has never been publicised, though it is potentially one of the
most sensational facts of the entire case. Five years after his
death, Arcesio Bermudez's grave, in the main cemetery in Bogota,
was opened for reburial of his remains (it being normal practice
in Colombia to rebury remains in an ossuary after five years).
Gustavo Bermudez confirmed it: the grave was empty. Senor
Bermudez's body had disappeared and is still missing. Only
rumours exist as to where it may have been taken; some say the
USA, but the family suspects it was taken to France.

On re-examination, not only does the Anolaima "UFO death" appear
as inexplicable as it was in 1969, but Arcesio Bermudez has
gained a further posthumous distinction. He must be the first
UFO witness to have been abducted after death.

A MILITARY TEST?

One explanation for the Anolaima incident involves a secret US
military test, although there is no direct evidence.

In 1969, diplomatic relations with a number of Latin American
countries were uneasy, but the world's attention was focused on
the first Moon landing - a clear demonstration of the technical
might of the USA. A contemporary press report shows that there
was at least one US attempt to convince Columbians of an alien
presence at this time. El Tiempo reported that 'Brother John', a
tall man of North American appearance described as a 'mystic
vegetarian', was wandering the streets of Cali. He told crowds
that he had been sent from the Moon to spread the gospel of
space beings and to speak with animals. His next destination was
Brazil. (El Tiempo, 8 July 1969.) He sounds more like a spaced-
out hippy than a space emissary and if the Anolaima incident was
part of some covert operation, it appears to have been
unsuccessful. Not only did the locals fail to interpret the
light within a ufological framework but it is now linked to
grave robbing! Hardly a successful exercise in "winning hearts
and minds".



[UFO UpDates thanks http://www.anomalist.com/ for the lead]








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              Bova: Existence Of UFOs Nice But Evidence Lacking

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 08:38:16 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 08:38:16 -0400
Subject: Bova: Existence Of UFOs Nice But Evidence Lacking

Naples Daily News - Florida


Ben Bova: The existence of UFOs would be nice, but the evidence is lacking

Sunday, October 13, 2002

By BEN BOVA, Special to the Daily News

Because I write science fiction, many people think I "believe"
in UFOs.

I do, in a way. I believe that there are many unidentified
objects flying through our skies. I do not believe, however,
that there is one scintilla of evidence showing that UFOs are
the spacecraft of visiting extraterrestrial creatures.

Most UFO sightings turn out to be perfectly natural objects: jet
planes, falling stars, balloons and such. After nearly half a
century of following UFO reports and investigations, I think
that the UFOs that haven't been explained are most likely
natural objects, too.

But the UFO "faithful" believe that we are being visited by
aliens, and the government is covering up the fact. Why the
government would try to cover up alien visitors is something I
don't understand. How a government that leaks like a sieve could
possibly cover up such a story for nearly half a century is
beyond my comprehension.

Remember Watergate? The federal government, for all its power
and the paranoia of the Nixon White House, couldn't keep a
third-rate burglary secret for very long.

But the UFO faithful believe there's an ongoing cover-up. And
they are right, in at least one case. There was a government
cover-up in the most famous UFO report of them all: the crashed
"flying saucer" and alien crew members that were found at
Roswell, New Mexico, in 1947. The cover-up lasted nearly 50
years, but when it was at last revealed most UFOlogists were
bitterly disappointed.

In July 1947, just outside of Roswell, after a severe
thunderstorm the night before, rancher William W. "Mack" Brazel
found in the desert wreckage of a crashed aircraft of a type
none of the local residents could identify. Even military
officers from nearby Roswell Army Air Field seemed stumped.
Soldiers collected the wreckage and within a day or two it was
flown to Wright Field, in Dayton, Ohio, a major facility that
included several government laboratories.

A few days after the wreckage was picked up by the Army, public
relations officer Lt. Walter G. Haut issued a news release that
referred to the wreckage as "a disk." Over the following days,
the story grew: The "disk" was definitely a flying saucer. Three
alien crewmen had been recovered, two of them dead and the third
badly injured. They had all been bundled off by the Army in
great secrecy.

Shortly after Haut's report of finding a "disk," the Army issued
another news release claiming that the wreckage was nothing more
than a weather balloon. Cover-up! charged the UFO faithful, and
for nearly half a century Roswell has stood as the classic
example of the government hiding "the truth" about flying
saucers.

Then, in 1994, the government finally admitted that there had
indeed been a conspiracy to hide the truth about the Roswell
wreckage. It wasn't a weather balloon. But it wasn't an alien
spacecraft, either.

In 1947, the Army was testing a series of very-high-altitude
balloons that were equipped with electronics and listening
devices to "eavesdrop" on possible Russian nuclear bomb tests.
The Roswell wreckage was of one of those balloon sets with its
seemingly strange equipment. The Army wanted to keep the program
secret, hence the cover story about a weather balloon.

Karl T. Pflock, who describes himself as a "pro-UFOlogist,"
investigated the Roswell incident over many years, at first as a
believer in the alien flying saucer story. But the deeper he
probed, he says, the more the story unraveled. There were no
alien crew members, alive or dead. Much to his personal
disappointment, Pflock came to the conclusion that the Roswell
UFO never existed, although a Pentagon cover-up certainly did,
for nearly half a century.

When I was the editor of Omni magazine, we worked hard to track
down UFO stories. They always somehow vanished into smoke and
air. One day a gentleman came into my office bearing a sliver of
metal which, he claimed, had been scraped from the hull of a
flying saucer. "It's unlike any metal on Earth," he kept
repeating.

It struck me, and the rest of the editorial staff, that it might
be pretty difficult to scratch off a sliver of such a metal. We
suggested that we take it to a reputable metallurgy laboratory
for analysis. The visitor was very reluctant to do so. At last,
after several hours, we persuaded him to go to Boston with one
of our editors and have the sample analyzed at the Massachusetts
Institute of Technology. He agreed only after we promised to pay
all the expenses for the trip.

MIT reported that the metal was ordinary aluminum, the stuff of
cooking pots and skillets. It may have come from the hull of a
flying saucer; aluminum is a good structural metal for flying
vehicles. But it certainly was not "unlike any metal on Earth."
I believe that life exists beyond Earth. I believe that
intelligent life must exist somewhere in the vast universe of
stars and galaxies. I recognize that there is, as yet, no
evidence to support this belief of mine.

Precisely because I am a "believer," in this sense, I remain
guardedly skeptical about claims of UFOs and alien abductions.
It is all too easy to fall for unsupported stories that tell us
what we want to believe. I would like to see some scrap of hard,
palpable evidence; maybe as much as a person would take to
traffic court to prove he wasn't illegally parked when he got a
ticket.

During the American Civil War, when reports from the
battlefields were often unreliable, many newspapers used a
headline that warned their readers that the story they were
about to read might not be accurate. The headline was "Good
News, If True." That is how I feel about UFO reports. It would
be wonderful to know that we are being visited by intelligent
aliens. But I doubt that it's true.

---

Naples resident Ben Bova's futuristic "Grand Tour" novels deal
with humans exploring the solar system. He gives commentary over
WGCU-FM every Tuesday morning. Dr. Bova's web site address is:

http://www.benbova.net

[UFO UpDates thanks http://www.anomalist.com/ for the lead]







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             Thinking Critically Is Key To Understanding Science

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 08:58:08 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 08:58:08 -0400
Subject: Thinking Critically Is Key To Understanding Science

http://www.dominionpost.com/a/news/2002/10/14/be/

Learning to think critically is key to understanding science

Norman Julian

To learn to think critically, consider Dr. Keith Garbutt's class
at West Virginia University.

Entitled Pseudo-Science, it enables you to steer a sensible
course in a "demon-haunted world."

That phrase in quotes is from Garbutt, who heads up the WVU
honors program where presumably are enrolled the best and the
brightest.

Garbutt is from England, came to WVU in 1987 to teach biology
and started teaching the Pseudo-Science course 2 years ago
because "I noticed a general lack of quizzical students."

A university task force, he said, also recognized that.

"We came up with a series of recommendations. Among them was to
include critical thinking in the curriculum. The idea was to
encourage that specifically."

Garbutt sees science as "a candle in the dark. Basically, the
course looks at the fallacious views people have and how you
tell whether something is science or not."

In his teaching, he uses two papers from "Skeptical Inquiry"
magazine, published by the Committee for the Scientific
Investigation of the Committee for the Paranormal.

He tries to explain, if not outright debunk, phenomena like the
Flatwoods Monster, flying saucers and extraterrestrial humanoid
visitors.

The students pick topics they want to research and use skeptical
inquiry as a major resource.

One strange occurrence they looked at is "treepanning," or the
drilling of holes into skulls. It is a technique various
cultures used in medicine to relieve brain bleeding.

"But some people believe that by drilling the holes you changed
the blood pressure and so more blood went to the brain," says
Garbutt, "and that made you smarter."

Garbutt calls that "a massive misunderstanding of physics and
biology."

Several ancient cultures treepanned. In all cases, Garbutt says,
it was done to relieve pressure that might have resulted from a
skull injury.

Two of his women students were interested in advertising claims
made for wrinkle reduction creams.

"The students looked into efficacy of these claims and
discovered most of the products didn't do anything but fill in
the cracks."

About the Flatwoods Monster, allegedly cited at that Braxton
County town half a century ago, the research indicates that UFO
was a meteor.

"It was visible that night in Maryland, Pennsylvania and West
Virginia," says Garbutt. It likely fell to the ground at
Flatwoods.

That eyewitnesses also claims to have seen hominoid-type
characters at the scene matched, according to Garbutt, "the
description of creature similar to a large owl.

"Coming across a barn owl common in Flatwoods area in semi-
darkness would give you quite a start."

Balls of lightning, he says, explain other UFOs, and weather
balloons still others.

Still another source, "depending on the time of the day, might
be if an aircraft is high enough towards dark, it can reflect
the sun over the horizon and look like a UFO."

Asked whether he believed there was life in the universe outside
Earth, Garbutt says, "I'd say it is probable. Whether there is a
high-tech life, I am less sure of.

"I have seen no evidence that we have been contacted in any way,
shape or form by extraterrestrials."

Garbutt says the class is fun to teach because "we can look from
a critical point of view and see what makes sense and what
doesn't.

"The world is a fabulous place. There are some amazing things
out there. Most people have to make stuff up to make it more
interesting. But the natural world is so incredible as it is."

Most of the things the class looked at, he says, "turned out to
be baloney.

"Other things have potential. They hover on the edge of science
and pseudo-science."

About the American interest in the capability of plant compounds
and natural pharmaceuticals to promote health, "there is a lot
of nonsense about what they can do and some truth."

One of the most examined objects in civilization is the Shroud
of Turin, said to have surrounded Christ after his crucifixion.

Weird as it may be, there is a project to reconstruct Jesus from
the DNA that might be extracted from the Shroud.

But Garbutt says the scientific evidence "shows the Shroud to be
shown to be a Medieval fake."

He encounters more superstitious thinking in America than in his
native England.

"As a biologist in Britain, I didn't encounter a creationist
problem," he said.

Most if not all scientists believed life evolved on Earth,
rather than having been created in an advanced state all at
once, as creationists believe.

Garbutt thinks his class is of a high calling.

"If we can't turn out people who are critical thinkers at the
end of the day, then the university has failed," he says.

(Next, astronomer Dr. David Meisel holds forth on phenomena in
the universe.)

NORMAN JULIAN is a columnist at large for The Dominion Post.
His columns appear Sunday, Monday and Thursday.


[UFO UpDates thanks http://www.anomalist.com/ for the lead]






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                    Similar UFO Sightings 50 Years Apart

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 10:12:26 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 10:12:26 -0400
Subject: Similar UFO Sightings 50 Years Apart

http://www.athensnews.com/issue/article.php3?story_id=9876


Strange happenings: Similar UFO Sightings Occur Exactly 50 Years
Apart

2002-10-17

By Barb Campagnola
Athens NEWS Contributor

It was Sunday morning, July 28, 2002. The news came on the radio
as I was chatting with a friend: a big ball of blue light had
been spotted in the sky, but we didn't catch where. It was
picked up on radar; fighter jets had been scrambled to the
scene. The chase was witnessed by people on the ground. The
light traveled at a phenomenal rate of speed and then Blip! - it
vanished from the radar and from the skies.

My eyes grew big as saucers. "Did you just hear that?" I asked.
I was amazed, having never heard such a thing reported on the
news.

Though I have been a skeptic, I do know people who not only
believe in UFOs, they say they have seen them. They also think
that the government is keeping the truth from us. I couldn't
imagine anyone trying to cover up such an important scientific
discovery. And why would a ship travel this far just to "blip
away"?

When I unfolded the story for myself, my thinking began to take
a turn.

I watched and listened all day for the exciting updates.
Nothing. I looked in the papers. Nothing. How could a big blue
ball of blazing light traveling at phenomenal rates of speed be
nothing?

Monday morning, I called my friend J.D. Hutchison, the
unofficial UFOologist of Athens. He said he thought it was over
Oregon somewhere on July 26 and would check into it. Meanwhile,
I searched the Internet: blue light/UFO/July 26.

Apparently on July 26, UFO activity was observed over Andrews
Air Force Base near Washington, D.C. Witnessed by credible,
reliable Air Force pilots and engineers and recorded on radar, a
fleet of seven solid-targets were seen hovering, cruising,
surrounding and accelerating at phenomenal rates of speed. Then
Blip! - they vanished from the radar and from the sky.

Interesting indeed, but I soon discovered that I was reading
about the appearance of UFOs on July 26 -- of 1952!

It seems that to date, one of the largest waves of UFO sightings
was recorded in July 1952, with an exceptional sighting on the
26th. The government, though it asserted nonchalance, took
action. Project Blue Book was instituted in early August
immediately after these sightings. It was intended to sort fact
from science fiction about UFOs.

Project Blue Book was headquartered at Wright Patterson Air
Force Base in Dayton. Apparently, there had been so much
activity to investigate before and after July 26 that the tiny
office was overwhelmed, inundated by the stacks of reports. Many
of the original documents were moved to the National Archives in
Washington when it closed in 1969.

Yes. Yes. This was all very interesting, I thought, as I
scrolled down the page. But I wanted to find out about this big
blue ball of light in 2002.

J.D. called me back.

"Babs," he said. "It was July 26, but not in Oregon. It was over
Andrews Air Force Base."

My jaw dropped.

Andrews Air Force Base? THE Andrews Air Force Base? Exactly 50
years to the day later?

This blue light was beginning to sound very intelligent indeed.
An anniversary appearance? How very attention-getting.

I made a few comparisons.

In a press conference on July 29, 1952, Maj. Gen. John Samford
of the U.S. Air Force stated that the sightings were caused by
temperature inversions. The public was easily convinced, and for
many, that was that.

On July 27, 2002, in a telephone conference with UFO researcher
Kenny Young, Major Snyder, command spokesperson for both NORAD
and the U.S. Space Command, said, "NORAD is absolutely not
concerned about this situation. We posture our forces according
to the threat and at no time did this incident involve any
threat to our country. It was an innocuous happening."

And that was that.

But is history repeating itself?

Released under the Freedom of Information Act, the once-
classified transcripts from the tower that night tell a very
different story. That night, no one thought it was temperature
inversion, including the lieutenant in charge. The report read,
"He (Lt. Holcomb) felt that the scope targets at that time were
not the result of this inversion and so advised the command post
with the suggestion that a second intercept flight be
requested."

Statements taken from commercial national airline pilots in the
same area on July 13, 1952 are also extraordinary. They say that
they observed a blue-white ball of light hovering to the west.

According to the pilot, the object came up to 11,000 ft. and
then maintained a parallel course on the same level, at the same
speed, until he turned on all lights. The object then departed
from the vicinity at an estimated 1,000 mph. The weather was
excellent for observation. The crew said that the object "took
off, up and away."

On July 14, 1952 Pan Am pilots in the same area reported six
glowing lights or discs cruising beneath them. They remained
until the pilots turned on the lights. The discs then flipped on
their edge, rose up over their plane in formation and then
disappeared one by one. Blip. Blip.

About 60 reports were made in July 1952 from credible witnesses.
But how many went unreported? How many go unreported today for
fear of scoffing? And while this documentation from commercial
pilots is fascinating, volumes upon volumes more exist. To do
the subject justice one would have to make it a lifelong
pursuit. Many have.

Project Blue Book recorded some 12,618 sightings before closing
operations in 1969. Of those, 718 remain unexplained. But
according to the Air Force and their conclusions from Project
Blue Book, UFOs have been proven to be neither a security threat
nor extraterrestrial, so we do not need to investigate them any
further. Case Closed. And this has become our official position
to date. See nothing and say nothing.

So it's probably fair to say that given the penalties, like
prison, for divulging classified information, we may never know
the truth about July 26, 2002.

Was it a bird? Was it a plane? Or was it... a temperature
inversion.


[UFO UpDates thanks http://www.anomalist.com/ for the lead]








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   Oct > Oct 17

               Re: Argentine Human Mutilation - Sanchez-Ocejo

From: Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <ufomiami@prodigy.net>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 07:20:25 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:00:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Argentine Human Mutilation - Sanchez-Ocejo


 >From: Albert Rosales
 >Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 22:17:20 EDT
 >Subject: Argentine Human Mutilation
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net,

 >Nothing about the fireball yet, but just received an intriguing
 >and scary report from Argentina.

 >Source: Francisco Fazio, Baiz, Argentina

 >On Sep 14 2002 at around 2100 near the city of Cordoba Argentina
 >and elderly woman and her two dogs were found dead and strangely
 >mutilated in a field near her home.


 >Police are reportedly invesgigating the case but no further
 >details have been released. TV and radio reported the incident.


 >Still investigating the case.


This is a response from our associated in Argentina, Jorge Suarez
director of C.I.O (UFO Information Center)

"You know that I live in Cordoba, I watch and I listen to LV3 or
TV Channel 3 and I have not listened any news about the
mutilation of an elderly woman. You imagined, if that really
happened, the scandal armed on this country by the news on radio
and television?"


Dr. Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo






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              Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair' -

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren@pacbell.net>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 08:16:17 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:03:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair' -


 >From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 01:06:25 +0200
 >Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'

 >>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren@pacbell.net>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 11:09:53 -0700
 >>Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'

<snip>

 >>As with the UFO subject, there is an abundance of information
 >>"pro and con" about Chemtrail/contrail emissions. Like UFOs the
 >>subject has drawn attention from the Air Force, enough to have
 >>them make a public statement on the issue, as well as motivating
 >>a member of Congress to attempt to pass a bill for our
 >>government to halt any activity involving what has become known
 >>as "Chemtrails." In the end, in my opinion, the phenomenon is
 >>real, and warrants further investigation and study.

 >Hello Frank,

 >Regarding angel hair in Santa Cruz, as I said, I never received
 >a report there that was outside the spider web envelope. In
 >addition, scientists at the University of California at Santa
 >Cruz were not familiar with any non spider or insect angel hair.
 >That was back about ten years ago. My years as being the MUFON
 >man (wow, a lightbulb went off - a way for MUFON to redeem and
 >preserve itself would be through a film and song titled MUFON
 >Man, as is the hunk starring through the eyes of a MUFON field
 >investigator and based on real investigations) Back to
 >unreality, I had that position through the 1980s until 1992 when
 >I moved to LA. I returned and had that post again in 1996, "97,
 >and '98. Frank, have you talked with the person who now handles
 >Santa Cruz County for MUFON?

 >A few days ago I made a joke about the narrow fundamentalist
 >view that angel hair was a spirit presence of falling hairs from
 >fallen angels that  shortly after landing would vaporize into
 >demonic spirits floating in the ether; that is the paranoid
 >view.

 >Frank, you report that you have seen airplanes emmit something
 >other than what you know as contrails. You ask what they may be
 >and you also decry the lack of information. I am not going to
 >take a position on what are reported as chemtrails. I just have
 >a few suggestions if you want to learn more about your sighting.

 >Have you talked to the fixed base operators (people who are
 >responsible for an airport), operations office staff, air
 >traffic control staff, and pilots in your area? Have you asked
 >them if they saw anything on the day of your sighting? Have they
 >seen unusual aircraft and spray patterns on other days? Have you
 >talked with the MUFON rep in your area?

 >Those are just a couple of off the top of my head ideas for you
 >to learn more about your incident.


Hi Josh,

Thank you for your input. As I mentioned in my previous post, I
guess I was stirred to comment on the "spider web article"
mainly because of what I thought was the "one-sidedness" of how
the article was presented. The reporter chose to mention "angel
hair, UFO's" etc., and went as far as contacting a molecular
biology professor, and made it appear that (in my opinion) that
there was a definitive answer based on his expertise, when
apparently that was not the case at all, as evidenced by the
response to (from the professor) Ed which was posted on this
list. In any event, based on my own experience I thought I would
put in my "two cents" as to some key points into establishing
the fact that these were spider webs. For example if one were
standing at the mouth of the harbor with the wind blowing
westward and the webs were seen there, I would be suspicious of
their origin. If the webs were preceded by low altitude planes
emitting something from their craft, again this would make me
wonder about these webs.

I have not spoken to the person who handles the Santa Cruz area
for MUFON. However, I did speak to a few friends who live in the
area days after the event to no avail, as these people
admittedly weren't paying attention to the skies. Also I was
going to check satellite images for the day of the reported
event, as well as the day before etc.

What has become known as "Chemtrails" ironically is not "my cup
of tea," (in terms of research) although one wouldn't know that
by these recent posts and personal e-mail I have received and
responded to as of  late. However, your suggested methods of
investigation are valid ones and I will endeavor to pursue this
course of action on the next occasion of said activity.


Cheers,

Frank










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   Oct > Oct 17

                   Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 14:38:29 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:05:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Hall


 >From: Albert Rosales <Garuda79@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:16:22 EDT
 >Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs?

 >Hello everyone, in reference to deaths associated to UFO
 >incidents I found this case, which has an inderect connection:

 >Santa Rita, Venezuela
 >October 6 1961        night

 >A huge lighted object flew at very low altitude over the city of
 >Santa Rita, apparently its brilliance illuminated the entire
 >city. It then flew slowly towards Lake Maracaibo causing
 >considerable panic among the local fishermen. Many of them dived
 >into the water in a state of panic, one man, Bartolome Romero
 >drowned as a result of the panic.


Albert,

Oddly enough I remember that case. We (at NICAP) carried a
report on it in The U.F.O. Investigator.

  - Dick









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                  Latest Research & Comments @ cohenufo.org

From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@optonline.net>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 10:32:01 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:09:34 -0400
Subject: Latest Research & Comments @ cohenufo.org


Hello List Members,

Hope this finds everyone in good health and spirits. I've been
away for the summer and then came back refreshed to add a little
more to my web site.

If you've covered the following already somewhere in
discussions, I apologize. I haven't had time to do my List back-
reading.

I began some interesting discussions with Bob Pratt back in June
and decided that those conversations might possibly be of
interest to some of you. If nothing else they may bring back a
few memories.

Wondering for many years about Dr. Hynek's relationship with the
National Enquirer and the accuracy of its UFO articles from back
in the 1970's, I had drawn my own conclusions regarding same
from my research. My discussions with Bob confirmed most of them
and caused me to revise my "Hynek and the Enquirer" section.
Bob's discussions are located at a link on the following page.

http://www.cohenufo.org/qna.html#hynkenqr

A further point of interest:

Along the way, I happened to check a text transcription I made
from Wendy Connor's CD, which contained the original police
interview of Hickson and Parker from their Oct. 1973 reported
abduction, against the National Enquirer's 7/28/64 article on
same.  Lo and behold, I discovered that the Enquirer article and
Ralph and Judy Blum book "Beyond Earth: Man's Contact with UFOs"
were both "accurate to source;" a point I wanted to check for
myself.

http://www.cohenufo.org/accuproof.html

If one reads the preceding pages on my site and their related
links, I believe he/she may possibly become more aware of the
value of some of Bob Pratt's detailed investigations. He spent
his life gathering the data.

I certainly welcome any comments any of you may have concerning
same. I believe it is an important topic.


Respectfully,

Jerry Cohen
http://www.cohenufo.org/








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               Re: Thinking Critically Is Key To Understanding

From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:21:00 UT
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:14:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Thinking Critically Is Key To Understanding

On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 08:58:08 -0400, UFO UpDates - Toronto
<ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> wrote:


 >Source: The Dominion Post - Morgantown West Virginia

 >http://www.dominionpost.com/a/news/2002/10/14/be/

 >Learning to think critically is key to understanding science

 >Norman Julian

 >To learn to think critically, consider Dr. Keith Garbutt's class
 >at West Virginia University.

 >Entitled Pseudo-Science, it enables you to steer a sensible
 >course in a "demon-haunted world."

 >That phrase in quotes is from Garbutt, who heads up the WVU
 >honors program where presumably are enrolled the best and the
 >brightest.

 >Garbutt is from England, came to WVU in 1987 to teach biology
 >and started teaching the Pseudo-Science course 2 years ago
 >because "I noticed a general lack of quizzical students."

 >A university task force, he said, also recognized that.

 >"We came up with a series of recommendations. Among them was to
 >include critical thinking in the curriculum. The idea was to
 >encourage that specifically."
 >
 >Garbutt sees science as "a candle in the dark. Basically, the
 >course looks at the fallacious views people have and how you
 >tell whether something is science or not."

 >In his teaching, he uses two papers from "Skeptical Inquiry"
 >magazine, published by the Committee for the Scientific
 >Investigation of the Committee for the Paranormal.

 >He tries to explain, if not outright debunk, phenomena like the
 >Flatwoods Monster, flying saucers and extraterrestrial humanoid
 >visitors.

 >The students pick topics they want to research and use skeptical
 >inquiry as a major resource.

I took my university's course in critical thinking and I would
say that this Garbutt fails in his own critical thinking skills
by using CSICOP's publications as a major source since CSICOP
has, itself, failed in critical thinking.

 >One strange occurrence they looked at is "treepanning," or the
 >drilling of holes into skulls. It is a technique various
 >cultures used in medicine to relieve brain bleeding.

 >"But some people believe that by drilling the holes you changed
 >the blood pressure and so more blood went to the brain," says
 >Garbutt, "and that made you smarter."

 >Garbutt calls that "a massive misunderstanding of physics and
 >biology."

 >Several ancient cultures treepanned. In all cases, Garbutt says,
 >it was done to relieve pressure that might have resulted from a
 >skull injury.

 >Two of his women students were interested in advertising claims
 >made for wrinkle reduction creams.

 >"The students looked into efficacy of these claims and
 >discovered most of the products didn't do anything but fill in
 >the cracks."

 >About the Flatwoods Monster, allegedly cited at that Braxton
 >County town half a century ago, the research indicates that UFO
 >was a meteor.

 >"It was visible that night in Maryland, Pennsylvania and West
 >Virginia," says Garbutt. It likely fell to the ground at
 >Flatwoods.

 >That eyewitnesses also claims to have seen hominoid-type
 >characters at the scene matched, according to Garbutt, "the
 >description of creature similar to a large owl.

 >"Coming across a barn owl common in Flatwoods area in semi-
 >darkness would give you quite a start."

 >Balls of lightning, he says, explain other UFOs, and weather
 >balloons still others.

 >Still another source, "depending on the time of the day, might
 >be if an aircraft is high enough towards dark, it can reflect
 >the sun over the horizon and look like a UFO."

 >Asked whether he believed there was life in the universe outside
 >Earth, Garbutt says, "I'd say it is probable. Whether there is a
 >high-tech life, I am less sure of.

 >"I have seen no evidence that we have been contacted in any way,
 >shape or form by extraterrestrials."

Did he really do any research? Did he really look for any
evidence or even purported evidence?  If not, then he has no
authority to make this statement and that is one thing wrong in
schools now for at least half a century.

 >Garbutt says the class is fun to teach because "we can look from
 >a critical point of view and see what makes sense and what
 >doesn't.

What is one man's sense is another's nonsense.

-Bill Hamilton







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               Shatner Directs & Acts In TV Movie 'Groom Lake'

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:32:18 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:16:49 -0400
Subject: Shatner Directs & Acts In TV Movie 'Groom Lake'


Source: Alan Boyle's Cosmic Log on MSNBC

http://www.msnbc.com/news/750150.asp?cp1=3D1

Audio link on the page.

Stig

***

<snip>

Oct. 14, 2002 / 6 p.m. ET

Chatting with the captain: Don't expect William Shatner to be
resurrected as Captain Kirk in a future "Star Trek" movie _ but
do expect his work to pop up on TV screens and bookshelves near
you.

During a half-hour Cosmic Chat, the actor/author delved into
the themes of "Star Trek: I'm Working on That," his new book on
"Star Trek" technologies made real, as well as the highlights of
his science-fiction career.

Click here to listen to the full audio chat. It's free - all you
need is a Windows Media Player. Among the highlights:

Shatner says he wrote "I'm Working on That" from the perspective
of a technophobe talking with the top people on the
technological frontier. "I'm not technically savvy," he
admitted. "The simplest things flummox me. Have you ever dealt
with the toilet, for example, and the plunger and the thing that
bobs on top of the water? How does it work?... That kind of
curiosity about everything around me has been a part of me for a
long time."

He was surprised to find that many scientists drew inspiration
in their youth from his science-fiction show: "I never thought
that world-class scientists would still carry that childhood
fantasy. And yet lives were changed by 'Star Trek.' I found it
very hard to believe and accept, that something I had worked on
so many years ago as a piece of entertainment changed lives. But
apparently it did."

He acknowledged that "Star Trek" may have boldly committed some
scientific bloopers: "There are inconsistencies, probably more
so in our show than in any other show... because it was done
with such haste and with so little money."

He downplayed the idea that Captain Kirk might be resurrected
for a future "Star Trek" movie: "I think the 'old' cast is just
that - we've gotten past the age where people might want to see
us. I would love to think that it might be possible to come back
in some form... and bring an element of wisdom perhaps, of
experience that these characters have.... Perhaps it would have
been possible to have brought Kirk and Spock back in some elder-
  statesman way, but it doesn't seem likely."

He said a long-simmering film project titled "Groom Lake" was
finally making its way toward distribution as a television
movie. Shatner is the writer and director as well as an actor in
the movie, which he describes as a love story with a UFO twist.

He liked the idea of following up on his look at real-life "Star
Trek" technology with a book on real-life "Star Trek"
philosophy: "It would be a very interesting pilgrimage to make,
to see based on what 'Star Trek' suggested _ for example, the
non- interference directive _ where that would take us in real
life."

Do you like the idea of going ahead with additional audio
interview/chats in this vein? Whom would you like to hear from?
Let us know what you think.


=A9 2002









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   Oct > Oct 17

                        Italian UFO Newsflash No. 370

From: Edoardo Russo <edoardo.russo@libero.it>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:42:52 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:21:18 -0400
Subject: Italian UFO Newsflash No. 370


ITALIAN UFO NEWSFLASH

ISSUE NO. 370 - 11 OCTOBER 2002

by the Italian Center for UFO Studies
(Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici, CISU)

Contents:

- Crop Circles: New Film, Books & Videos
- UFOs In A Book About E.T. Life
- The Death Of Contactee Walter Rizzi



UFOS IN A BOOK ABOUT E.T. LIFE

A recent scientific book about research on extraterrestrial life
devotes ample space to the UFO subject.

The volume in question is "La vita nel cosmo: esistono gli
extraterrestri?" ("Life in the Cosmos: Do Extraterrestrials
Exist?"), is penned by the American astronomer Steven J.
Dick, was originally published in 1998, and is translated
now by Raffaello Cortina Editore (450 pages, 30.50 Euro).

In fact, the chapter on "The Controversy Concerning UFOs and the
Extraterrestrial Hypotheses" fills over 50 pages of the book and
represents a uniquely documented treatise on our subject.

[UFO-Italia, 30 September; reports by Paolo Fiorino and
Roberto Labanti]


CROP CIRCLES: NEW FILM, BOOKS & VIDEOS

The third film this year connected to the UFO theme has arrived
in Italian movie theaters.

We are referring to "Signs", from the "Sixth Sense" director,
Night Shyamalan with Mel Gibson as the protagonist who is forced
by steps into admitting that the mysterious circles appearing in
corn fields are, in reality, a message by alien invaders.

The expectation that the film will rekindle public interest in
"crop circles" is leading to the issue of books and
documentaries on the subject. The first book is entitled "I
nuovi cerchi nel grano: Un fenomeno che continua" ("New Crop
Circles: A Continuing Phenomenon"), it's penned by the German
writer Michael Hesemann, is published by the editors at
Mediterranee (190 pages, 19.50 Euro), is richly adorned with
color photographs, and is updated through 2001. But that's not
all: also out are "La voce di Gaia: Il linguaggio cosmico dei
cerchi nel grano" ("The Voice of Gaia: The Cosmic Language of
Crop Circles"), a book by Antonio Bonifacio, and a forthcoming
one from the editor of the archeo-mystery magazine "Hera",
Adriano Forgione, accompanied by a video documentary. Also
planned for Sunday the 13th is a segment concerning crop circles
on the Roberto Giacobbo's emission "Stargate - Linea di confine"
on La7 TV, featuring analyses conducted this summer.

[UFO-Italia, 5-10 October; reports by Paolo Fiorino, Roberto
Labanti and Massimo Marasi]


THE DEATH OF CONTACTEE WALTER RIZZI

It has only now been reported by the German magazine "UFO
Nachrichten" that the Alto Adige contactee, Walter Rizzi, died
last year at the age of 82.

The story of the meeting and the conversation of Rizzi with an
extraterrestrial having descended from a flying saucer at Passo
di Gardena in 1968 and recounted by him for the first time ten
years later was widely known, especially in German-speaking
countries, to the point that the man was often invited to hold
lectures and even published a book in Germany.

[UFO Nachrichten, September-October 2002; report by
Bruno Mancusi]


Collaborators on this edition were: Paolo Fiorino,
Roberto Labanti, Bruno Mancusi and Massimo Marasi.


- - -

This is the English translation of UFOTEL, a free
phone/Internet information service on UFOs edited
weekly by Edoardo Russo for the Italian Center for
UFO Studies (Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici),
available in Italian by calling +39-011-545294,
or by e-mail subscription, or on CISU website
at http://www.arpnet.it/ufo/ultime.htm

UFOTEL is a supplement to "UFO - Rivista di
informazione ufologica", published by the Italian
Center for UFO Studies, registered at Tribunale
di Torino, No. 3670, on 19 June 1986.
Director: Giovanni Settimo.
Publisher: Cooperativa UPIAR, Corso Vittorio
Emanuele 108, 10121 Turin, Italy

Translated from Italian to English by:
Gary J. Presto, Freelance IT-EN Translator/Proofreader
1123 Revere Beach Pky., # 12
Revere, MA 02151 USA
Tel.: ++ 1.781.485.1683, Fax: ++ 1.781.485.1684
ICQ: 110502923, E-mail: gpresto@attbi.com
Webpage: http://www.proz.com/translator/723



- - -

(c) 2002 by: CISU,
Corso Vittorio Emanuele 108, 10121 Torino, Italia

This newsletter (as a whole or in part) may be freely copied,
photocopied, reproduced, stored, distributed and retrieved, at
the only condition that Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici is
reported as the source.

You may get it directly via e-mail by subscribing
(just send a blank message to:
cisuflash-subscribe@yahoogroups.com)

The CISU is a no-profit association whose aims are:
- to promote the scientific study of UFO phenomena in Italy;
- to help circulate information about UFO phenomena and studies;
- to coordinate national activities of data collecting and studying.

You may reach Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici:
- by mail: CISU, Corso Vittorio Emanuele 108, 10121 Torino, Italia
- by phone: +39 (011) 30.78.63 (24 hours UFO Hotline)
- by fax: +39 (011) 54.50.33
- by Internet e-mail: cisu@ufo.it
- at the World Wide Web URL: http://www.cisu.org







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   Oct > Oct 17

                Re: Rusty's 'Angel Hair' Lab Report - Gehrman

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 10:00:20 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:23:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Rusty's 'Angel Hair' Lab Report - Gehrman


 >From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 10:37:26 -0500
 >Subject: Rusty's 'Angel Hair' Lab Report

 >Analysis of 'Angel Hair' Deposited in Burlington, West Virginia
 >(September 19, 2000)

 >On September 21, 2000, Retha Rutherford (aka 'Rusty') found a
 >white material in patches around her yard. Rusty collected
 >samples, took pictures of the material and sent the samples and
 >photographs to Frontier Analysis, Ltd. for analysis.

 >Rusty posted the story of her discovery and photographs of the
 >white material found in her yard on her web site indicating the
 >white material did not look like spider webs and may be
 >connected to the "droning" sound she heard the night before. On
 >E-mail lists Rusty indicated her belief that the white material
 >may be related to what she believed to be "chemtrail spraying".

 >Rusty very kindly offered to send a copy of the lab report to
 >anyone who requested a copy, which I did. Rusty promptly sent me
 >a copy of the lab report (free of charge). Rusty further posted
 >the lab report on her web site but removed it soon afterwards.
 >On E-lists, Rusty later admitted the report indicated the white
 >material she found in her yard was similar to silk made by
 >insects and caterpillars but only quoted those sections of the
 >report which made her discovery seem more mysterious.

Amy,

Thanks for posting the Budinger analysis. It proves the point I
was trying to make. The angel hair falls are not composed of a
single substance, like spider web (although spider web might be
included), but are a conglomerate of substances, including
insect silk and other chemicals and materials. But this is not
natural or common. Some force has drawn all these various
substances together, transformed the mixture, and then dispersed
it from on high. Can we agree on this?

 >Rusty's claims were reported in UFO Roundup (Vol. 5, No. 39,
 >Sept. 28, 2000), Filer's Files #39 (Oct. 5, 2000), on the Jeff
 >Rense web site (where I commented that the material resembled
 >silk created by tent caterpillars which Rusty emphatically
 >denied), was discussed on Strange Days Program #100, appeared on
 >various E-mail lists and Rusty's original story remains posted
 >on her web site unaltered to this day. The discovery of this
 >material, still labeled as "angel hair", remains posted all over
 >the internet minus the lab results that indicated the material
 >appeared to be silk from an insect rather than "angel hair".

Although the WV fall is composed of various insect silks & other
flotsam and jetsam, it's still classic angel hair. There was a
half-mile square fall in Feb., 1955, in Elmira, NY that was
identified by a chemistry professor as radioactive, heavily
damaged cotton fiber, but a photo reveals the same classic angel
hair characteristics.

Perhaps the angel hair phenomena might be defined as a fall from
unknown sources which consists of various fibers and silks that
have accumulated for unknown reasons and have been dispersed in
a manner yet to be determined. I don't think it can be
dismissed by blaming it on migrating spiders.

Ed







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   Oct > Oct 17

                          Re: UFOs And... - Gehrman

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 10:47:35 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:46:58 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs And... - Gehrman


 >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 23:34:36 -0700
 >Subject: Re: UFOs And...

 >Just out of curiosity, why does it seem like _every_ strange or
 >out-of-the-ordinary occurence is almost _automatically_
 >accompanied by reports of UFOS?

 >Bigfoot sighted - UFO reported in area. Chupacabras? UFOs. Crop
 >Circles... and UFOS. Cattle Mutes... and UFOs. Massive Power
 >Failure in Northeast... UFOs seen near main power station. Space
 >Shuttle Explodes... UFOs sighted near launch tower. It's so bad
 >that I was able to predict that someone would report a UFO near
 >the World Trade Center on 9/11... and as I recall, they did.

 >I dunno, gang, this sounds a little psycho-social to me.

Below are four examples of testimony that connects UFO with the
sighting of angel hair. I could cite many more with the same
flavor and common characteristics. Do you need more evidence?
  Let's try to explain this phenomena, not explain it away.


3) October 1953 Victoria

"In recent years only a few UFO reports refer to a filamentous
substance "angel's hair", having been seen falling from the sky
after a flying saucer had passed over. In the case below, the
second in Australia but only now reported to UFOIC, it is
believed that the same substance is involved. In the earliest
report of October 1953, over Victoria a sample was recovered and
made available for laboratory analysis. The examination revealed
that the substance consisted of a nylon-like amorphous mass with
traces of magnesium, calcium, boron and silicon. Since then the
original material, which was kept in an air-tight container
shrank from three to a mere half inch without residue."

(A photograph of the remaining sample was shown.) (1) Source:
(1) Australian Flying Saucer Review (NSW) No. 9 p12

October 1955 Port Augusta South Australia (32.30S 137.46E)
"October-, 1955 Port Augusta Australia Yes" (1) In a section
about angel hair, where `yes' refers to a `UFO in area.' White
filament falls at time of UFO sighting (2).

5 August 1961 0820hrs 55mins Mt Hale Station Western
Australia (26.03S 117.15E)

"Twelve round flying objects, moving fast in pairs, were sighted
on August 6th, 1961, by ten independent witnesses near
Meekatharra. They left a white trail of "streamers" which
crumbled and disappeared when picked up by startled watchers at
Mt Hale station, seventy-five miles west of Meekatharra. The
silvery, round objects passed over the station at regular
intervals between 8.20 and 9.15 am.

(9) 6 June 1962 1120hrs Caroda New South Wales
(30.01S 150.22E)

"On 6th June 1962, at 11.20 a.m., six silent UFOs, erratically
flying high in a cloudless sky, attracted the attention of
residents of Shalimar, Caroda.

The first of these objects resembled a very brilliant star, and
climbed slowly to an altitude slightly south of the zenith,
where it became too small to be seen.

A few minutes later, a second silvery globe was observed
travelling from the north about half-way between the zenith and
north-east horizon, then in an arc which brought it overhead.
After completing circle, it hovered for ten seconds, then moved
off in a south-easterly direction where it was lost from view
about 30 degrees above the horizon. Of all the objects, this one
was the lowest and best defined, enabling its circular outline
to be distinguished from that of an aircraft. A third object
appeared, resembling the first and following a similar route.
Then another very high speck of light became visible in the
west.

It appeared to leave a trail of shiny, web-like filaments, which
gradually disintegrated as they drifted through the air.

Two UFOs, followed very high in the sky and were seen for only a
short while.

Mrs Jean Williams, her daughter Julie and Mrs Marie Moore are
agreed that, for some time afterwards, a hazy mist of light
hreads seemed to fill the sky. Mr S Willams, who returned home
later, noticed that these traces of silvery thread, which slowly
disintegrated , were sometimes as long as five feet, and seemed
to be of a fine nylon-like texture. Although a search over the
countryside for traces of these wispy threads was to no avail,
he is convinced that the strange substance emanated from the
flying saucers which had passed overhead.


Source: Hervey, M (1969.) UFO over the Southern Hemisphere.
Sydney. Horwitz. pp47-48.

More examples found here:
http://project1947.com/kbangel.htm









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   Oct > Oct 17

                          Secrecy News -- 10/17/02

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 13:53:38 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:49:06 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 10/17/02


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2002, Issue No. 102
October 17, 2002


**      LITIGATION OVER 1947 INTELLIGENCE BUDGET RENEWED
**      MILITARY ROLE IN SNIPER HUNT CONFRONTS BARRIERS
**      FINAL 9-11 JOINT INQUIRY HEARING
**      HISTORY OF AERIAL ESPIONAGE
**      UPDATED LISTING OF TERRORIST ORGANIZATIONS
**      KYL ON AMENDING FISA


LITIGATION OVER 1947 INTELLIGENCE BUDGET RENEWED

A Federation of American Scientists lawsuit to compel
declassification of the intelligence budget totals from 1947 and
1948 was refiled today in federal court, following a ten month
procedural detour.

The continuing classification of such innocuous, archaic budget
data exemplifies the mindlessness of much official secrecy,
especially at the Central Intelligence Agency, which previously
did declassify the 1997 and 1998 budget totals in response to
similar litigation.

CIA's position in this case is particularly insolent given that
a "statement and account" of "all" budget expenditures is the
one category of executive branch information whose publication
is guaranteed in the U.S. Constitution "from time to time."
(Article 1, Sect. 9).

"The Director of Central Intelligence does not have the
authority to extinguish a constitutional requirement," the FAS
lawsuit suggests.

The lawsuit, filed under the Freedom of Information Act, argues
that "CIA has taken an extreme position in this case that is far
beyond the boundaries of reasonable disagreement over the
requirements of national security."

Accordingly, the lawsuit asks the Court to issue a written
finding that CIA personnel may "have acted arbitrarily or
capriciously" in withholding the 1947-48 budget information.
  Such a finding would lay the foundation for a Special Counsel
investigation and possible disciplinary action.

The text of the October 17 FAS complaint, Aftergood v. Central
Intelligence Agency, is posted here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/foia/1947intb.html


MILITARY ROLE IN SNIPER HUNT CONFRONTS BARRIERS

Any assistance that the U.S. military can offer to expedite the
capture of the Washington, DC-area sniper is undoubtedly
warranted by the imminent threat to public safety and human
life.

But that assistance, in the form of military surveillance
aircraft, is already running up against longstanding legal and
regulatory barriers to cooperation between law enforcement and
the military.

The 1986 Department of Defense Directive 5525.5 dictates, for
example, that "the needs of civilian law enforcement officials
may be considered when scheduling routine training missions.
This does not permit the planning or creation of missions or
training for the primary purpose of aiding civilian law
enforcement officials, and it does not permit conducting
training or missions for the purpose of routinely collecting
information about U.S. citizens."

Furthermore, according to the same directive, the Posse
Comitatus Act of 1878 implies a prohibition on the "Use of
military personnel for surveillance or pursuit of
individuals...."

See DOD Directive 5525.5, "DoD Cooperation with Civilian Law
Enforcement Officials," here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/doddir/dod/d5525_5.pdf

The implications of (and exceptions to) the Posse Comitatus Act
were carefully examined by Matthew Carlton Hammond in "The Posse
Comitatus Act: A Principle in Need of Renewal," Washington
University Law Quarterly, Summer 1997:

http://law.wustl.edu/WULQ/75-2/752-10.html


FINAL 9-11 JOINT INQUIRY HEARING

The final public hearing of the joint congressional intelligence
committee inquiry into September 11 was held today, with a
summary report by staff director Eleanor Hill followed by
statements from DCI George Tenet, FBI Director Robert Mueller,
and NSA Director Michael Hayden.

Prepared statements from the October 17 hearing are posted here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2002_hr/index.html#joint9


HISTORY OF AERIAL ESPIONAGE

The history of "U.S. Aerial Espionage in the Cold War and
Beyond" is introduced and documented by Jeffrey T. Richelson in
a new National Security Archive reader here:

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB74/


UPDATED LISTING OF TERRORIST ORGANIZATIONS

There are now 219 "groups, entities, and individuals" identified
as terrorists by the U.S. Government and subject to financial
sanctions and other restrictions.

An updated list was published by the U.S. State Department on
October 11 and is posted here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2002/10/dos101102.html


KYL ON AMENDING FISA

Sen. Jon Kyl spoke at length this week on the importance of
"adding just three words" to the Foreign Intelligence
Surveillance Act, which governs the surveillance and search of
suspected foreign terrorists and spies in the United States.

His three words are "or foreign person", and they would permit
the surveillance and search of suspected foreign terrorists who
are not demonstrably sponsored by a foreign power.  Sen. Kyl
said that this revision would correct a deficiency that
inhibited the monitoring of suspected terrorist Zacarias
Moussaoui.

See his October 15 floor statement on "Amending the FISA Law"
here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2002_cr/s101502.html

_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a blank email message to
secrecy_news-remove@lists.fas.org

OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood@fas.org
voice:  (202) 454-4691






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   Oct > Oct 17

                   Re: UFO Over North Seattle Area - Young

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:24:40 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:50:34 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Over North Seattle Area - Young


 >From: John Novak <john@supremalex.org>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:38:23 -0700
 >Subject: UFO Over North Seattle Area

 >Lake Forest Park, WA:

 >On the evening of Tuesday 10/15/02 at approximately 7:45 PM PST,
 >a friend and I were in his backyard changing the oil in his van
 >when, facing south, I saw a large, glowing whitish-blue ball of
 >brilliant light move slowly across the sky at about a 60-65
 >degree altitude from the horizon.

 >I first spotted it in the sky southwest of us heading on an
 >eastern path

<snip>

 >Just before it went out of sight over the trees to the southeast
 >of us, it just vanished, like someone turned off the power.
 >move west.

 >The entire sighting of the object was about 3-4 minutes.

Hi, John:

How precise is your time for this event, and did your UFO pass
to the lower right of the moon/below the moon?


Clear skies,

Bob Young







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                  Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Young

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:30:15 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:52:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Young


 >From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 23:54:54 -0300
 >Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs?

 >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 10:53:18 EDT
 >>Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs?

 >>>From: Geoff Dittman <gdittman@shaw.ca>
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 04:55:08 +0300
 >>>Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs?

<snip>

 >>>I put up a website some time ago on cases involving injury and
 >>>death. The front page is located at:

 >>>http://www.geocities.com/area51/rampart/2653/sixthkind.html

<snip>

 >One of the most obvious, I would suggest, is the Valentich case.

Hi, Don:

Which could have been a hoax. In any case, who has proven what
happened, and its cause?


Bob Young







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   Oct > Oct 17

                     Re: Jimmy Carter The Nobel Prize &

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:38:28 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:53:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Jimmy Carter The Nobel Prize &


 >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 21:42:36 +0000
 >Subject: Re: Jimmy Carter The Nobel Prize & Extraterrestrials

 >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 19:56:38 EDT
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Subject: Re: Jimmy Carter The Nobel Prize & Extraterrestrials

<snip>

 >listen to the absurdly illogical mutterings of the very
 >people whom you seem to hold up as 'authorities' if not 'idols'.

Dick:

Please provide citations for the two quotations you have
attributed to me in the preceding sentence.

 >Name any non-trivial case you wish that Sheaffer has commented
 >on and I will respond to it.

Now _that_ will be a tall order, finding a non-trivial saucer
case, that is.

Well, other than Carter's, which all three of us apparently
think was trivial, how about the Hill Abduction tale's initial
sighting?


Clear skies,

Bob Young








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                    Re: Filer's Files #42 - 2002 - Young

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:42:56 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:55:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #42 - 2002 - Young


 >From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 14:24:50 -0400
 >Subject: Filer's Files #42 - 2002

 >FILER'S FILES #42 - 2002, MUFON Skywatch Investigations
 >George A. Filer, Director Mutual UFO Network Eastern
 >October 16, 2002, Majorstar@aol.com. Webmaster: Chuck
 >Warren -- My new website is at:

<snip>

 >JIMMY CARTER, THE NOBEL PRIZE, AND UFOs

 >Carter wasdoing some politicking at the Leary Georgia's Lion's
 >Club inJanuary 1969, when suddenly from the sky a UFO "as
 >bright as the moon" flashed before his eyes. A red and green
 >glowing orb radiated as it hurtled across the southwestern
 >skies. Ten minutes later, it vanished. That was Jimmy Carter's
 >story and he has stuck to it.

George:

This famous IFO was actually the planet Venus, as determined by
Robert Sheaffer many years ago and published in The Humanist,
July-August 1977, p. 46.

The problem was that Carter was mistaken about the date when
recounting it years later. Sheaffer got to the bottom of it.

Please see: http://www.debunker.com/texts/carter_ufo.html

Anybody who still uses this old, tired IFO without addressing
Robert Sheaffer's long-published investigation just hasn't done
their homework.


Clear skies,

Bob Young






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                          Re: CUFOS Crisis - Rimmer

From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 22:55:01 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 18:21:38 -0400
Subject: Re: CUFOS Crisis - Rimmer


I find it very strange that CUFOS should be in such a financial
crisis when its journal IUR enjoys the inestimable advantage of
being published in the world's second most understood language
after Chinese - English.

I have recently received UFO Revista from Italy, which is a
professionally produced, well-illustrated glossy magazine of 48
pages. I don't read Italian, but understand enough to be able to
say that this is a serious magazine, publishing in-depth studies
of the type which should be a staple of IUN. In an English-
  language insert in the most recent issue they announce that
they actually intend to increase the frequency of publication
from 1 or 2 a year to four.

Now, this is an Italian language publication, with a potential
customer base of not much more than the population of Italy, 57
million.

Even more remarkable is UFO Aktuelt, the Swedish quarterly
magazine. Another full-colour, glossy covered magazine, well
produced and illustrated. This for a country with a population
of 9 million, although probably it would be understood by
ufologists in Norway and Denmark, who speak closely related
languages, bringing the total customer base up to about 19
million.

And here is IUN, produced in the most prosperous country on
earth, with a domestic customer base of over 250 million
English-speakers, in a language which makes it accessible to
another 60 million in the British Isles, more in Canada, South
Africa, Australia and the rest of the English-speaking
Commonwealth, and which is also the world's most widely spoken
language. And yet it is failing! What is going wrong?

If UFO magazines can be produced in languages which have
practically no currency outside their native countries, and
thrive on such a limited customer base, why can't IUN with is
hugely greater customer base? Perhaps CUFOS should get in touch
with its Italian and Swedish contemporaries and find out how
they manage to produce their excellent magazines under less
helpful circumstances

--
John Rimmer
Magonia Magazine
www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/00/newmag.htm







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                     Re: UFO Related Injuries - Rosales

From: Albert Rosales <Garuda79@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 18:16:20 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 18:23:51 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Related Injuries - Rosales


Lest we forget, Betty Cash who died in December 29 1998, oddly
enough the same date of her infamous UFO encounter in December
29 1980 near Huffman Texas. Betty Cash, along with Vickie
Landrum and grandson Colby Landrum, encountered a huge diamond
shaped UFO accompanied by military helicopters on a dark road in
the east Texas Piney Woods.

They were exposed to radiation from the object, which caused
extreme medical problems such as burns, eye damage, hair loss,
diarrhea, and vomiting.

Although they and others in the area observed a large number of
military helicopters along with the UFO, the US Government
refused to acknowledge the event or assist them in any way.

After the encounter, Betty Cash was hospitalized and treated for
burns and other maladies. Her life became a series of hospital
stays, many of them in intensive care.

Eventually, she developed cancer, which was successfully
treated. In November 1998 Mrs Cash suffered a stroke and never
recovered.

Thanks Mr. John Schuessler for this information.


Albert Rosales







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                 Re: Rusty's 'Angel Hair' Lab Report - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 22:18:39 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 18:28:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Rusty's 'Angel Hair' Lab Report - Hall


 >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 10:00:20 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Rusty's 'Angel Hair' Lab Report

 >>From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 10:37:26 -0500
 >>Subject: Rusty's 'Angel Hair' Lab Report

 >>Analysis of 'Angel Hair' Deposited in Burlington, West Virginia
 >>(September 19, 2000)

 >>On September 21, 2000, Retha Rutherford (aka 'Rusty') found a
 >>white material in patches around her yard. Rusty collected
 >>samples, took pictures of the material and sent the samples and
 >>photographs to Frontier Analysis, Ltd. for analysis.

 >>Rusty posted the story of her discovery and photographs of the
 >>white material found in her yard on her web site indicating the
 >>white material did not look like spider webs and may be
 >>connected to the "droning" sound she heard the night before. On
 >>E-mail lists Rusty indicated her belief that the white material
 >>may be related to what she believed to be "chemtrail spraying".

 >>Rusty very kindly offered to send a copy of the lab report to
 >>anyone who requested a copy, which I did. Rusty promptly sent me
 >>a copy of the lab report (free of charge). Rusty further posted
 >>the lab report on her web site but removed it soon afterwards.
 >>On E-lists, Rusty later admitted the report indicated the white
 >>material she found in her yard was similar to silk made by
 >>insects and caterpillars but only quoted those sections of the
 >>report which made her discovery seem more mysterious.

 >Amy,

 >Thanks for posting the Budinger analysis. It proves the point I
 >was trying to make. The angel hair falls are not composed of a
 >single substance, like spider web (although spider web might be
 >included), but are a conglomerate of substances, including
 >insect silk and other chemicals and materials. But this is not
 >natural or common. Some force has drawn all these various
 >substances together, transformed the mixture, and then dispersed
 >it from on high. Can we agree on this?

 >>Rusty's claims were reported in UFO Roundup (Vol. 5, No. 39,
 >>Sept. 28, 2000), Filer's Files #39 (Oct. 5, 2000), on the Jeff
 >>Rense web site (where I commented that the material resembled
 >>silk created by tent caterpillars which Rusty emphatically
 >>denied), was discussed on Strange Days Program #100, appeared on
 >>various E-mail lists and Rusty's original story remains posted
 >>on her web site unaltered to this day. The discovery of this
 >>material, still labeled as "angel hair", remains posted all over
 >>the internet minus the lab results that indicated the material
 >>appeared to be silk from an insect rather than "angel hair".

 >Although the WV fall is composed of various insect silks & other
 >flotsam and jetsam, it's still classic angel hair. There was a
 >half-mile square fall in Feb., 1955, in Elmira, NY that was
 >identified by a chemistry professor as radioactive, heavily
 >damaged cotton fiber, but a photo reveals the same classic angel
 >hair characteristics.

 >Perhaps the angel hair phenomena might be defined as a fall from
 >unknown sources which consists of various fibers and silks that
 >have accumulated for unknown reasons and have been dispersed in
 >a manner yet to be determined. I don't think it can be
 >dismissed by blaming it on migrating spiders.

 >Ed

I seem to have lost the posts from Frank Warren (which I
appreciated as being honest and straightforward), so will use
this message to apologize for my negative and cynical reactions
to people who tend to see something unexplained and
extraordinary about so-called "chemtrails."

I remain highly skeptical, but insofar as credible witnesses
come forth with testimony that suggests something beyond the
"normal," their testimony should be taken seriously, but most of
all thoroughly investigated in terms of possible mundane
explanations.

Don't tell me that they make abnormal or unexplainable criss-
cross patterns in the airways unless you also demonstrate
checking for civilian, government, or military activities that
might account for them.

Give me some factual, objective reason for not concluding that
witnesses are only seeing normal contrails (which in calm upper
air can last for hours).


- Dick








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                   Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 22:28:24 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 19:05:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Hall


 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto)
 >Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:30:15 EDT
 >Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs?

 >>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 23:54:54 -0300
 >>Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs?

 >>>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 10:53:18 EDT
 >>>Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs?

 >>>>From: Geoff Dittman <gdittman@shaw.ca>
 >>>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>>Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 04:55:08 +0300
 >>>>Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs?

 >>>>I put up a website some time ago on cases involving injury and
 >>>>death. The front page is located at:

 >>>>http://www.geocities.com/area51/rampart/2653/sixthkind.html

 >>One of the most obvious, I would suggest, is the Valentich case.

 >Which could have been a hoax. In any case, who has proven what
 >happened, and its cause?

Bob,

Assuming that you have any understanding whatsoever of what
constitutes evidence or logical argument, do you have any of
either to advance your dubious conclusion that the Valentich
case "could have been a hoax"?

Nobody has "proven" anything, but your counter-to-fact
insinuations and gross (in the full sense of that word)
assumptions do not explain anything either.

There is no evidence whatsoever to suggest a hoax (if you have
any, please produce it).

Given the facts and the full historical context of the Valentich
case, you are skating on thin ice. He did in fact disappear
while communicating with air traffic controllers and describing
a rather typical UFO hovering over his aircraft.

What is your hypothesis?


  - Dick








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                Re: Rusty's 'Angel Hair' Lab Report - Tonnies

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 16:42:12 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 23:25:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Rusty's 'Angel Hair' Lab Report - Tonnies


 >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 22:18:39 +0000
 >Subject: Re: Rusty's 'Angel Hair' Lab Report

<snip>

 >Don't tell me that they make abnormal or unexplainable criss-
 >cross patterns in the airways unless you also demonstrate
 >checking for civilian, government, or military activities that
 >might account for them.

 >Give me some factual, objective reason for not concluding that
 >witnesses are only seeing normal contrails (which in calm upper
 >air can last for hours).

I agree. I was looking at a diffuse jet contrail as I walked
from my garage just a few minutes ago, and thinking how mundane
some of the "chemtrail" reports are. Many of ths photos showing
examples are laughable.

I went to a fairly rural college with no tall buildings and I
used to see "amazing" "chemtrail" displays. They were very
obvious and perfectly conventional as far as I could tell. I
once colorfully compared the spectacle to the Nazca lines in
Peru.

The cases that alarm/interest me are the ones in which a residue
is found or local residents complain of respiratory or other
health problems. These are an opportunity to get hard data: is
something weird going on or is this (post-) millennial hysteria?

Maybe "chemtrails" have been with us for decades and we've just
started noticing them as air traffic gets heavier.


=====
Mac Tonnies (macbot@yahoo.com)

Transcelestial Ontology and Postmillennial Studies
http://mactonnies.com








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                   Re: UFO Over North Seattle Area - Novak

From: John Novak <john@supremalex.org>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 16:43:24 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 23:28:07 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Over North Seattle Area - Novak


 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto)
 >Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:24:40 EDT
 >Subject: Re: UFO Over North Seattle Area

 >>From: John Novak <john@supremalex.org>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:38:23 -0700
 >>Subject: UFO Over North Seattle Area

 >>Lake Forest Park, WA:

 >>On the evening of Tuesday 10/15/02 at approximately 7:45 PM PST,
 >>a friend and I were in his backyard changing the oil in his van
 >>when, facing south, I saw a large, glowing whitish-blue ball of
 >>brilliant light move slowly across the sky at about a 60-65
 >>degree altitude from the horizon.

 >How precise is your time for this event, and did your UFO pass
 >to the lower right of the moon/below the moon?


Bob,

It was to the right of the moon, but not below it. Time given
was approximate, within 5 minutes. Peter Davenport thinks I saw
the ISS, and that could very well be considering it was in the
sky near that time. Although, what I saw seemed to be quite a
bit further south of what seems to be the flight path.








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                             Re: Crisis at CUFOS

From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@optonline.net>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 19:41:56 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 23:31:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Crisis at CUFOS


 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002   11:15:59 -0500
 >Subject: Crisis At CUFOS

 >Listfolk:

 >The continued existence of the J. Allen Hynek Center for
 >UFO Studies (CUFOS) is in question. By "continued
 >existence" I mean that CUFOS as it has existed since
 >1973, when Dr. Hynek and Sherman J. Larsen created it,
 >may fold within the next few weeks.

 >That was the issue discussed at length in the board
 >meeting I attended in Chicago last Saturday (October 5).
 >Revenue has been down significantly, and soon it will no
 >longer be possible to keep the office - with its extensive
 >files and resources, a world-class collection - open.
 >Already discussions have opened with a university which
 >has expressed interest in the materials.

 >CUFOS' principal revenue source is International UFO
 >Reporter (IUR), published four times a year for $25. IUR
 >is often described as the best UFO magazine in the
 >English language, with its emphasis on sober research
 >and analysis. Like most (possibly all) other UFO
 >journals, however, our subscription base has eroded over
 >the years, a victim of the Internet and other forces
 >beyond our control.

<snip>

 >Subscriptions are available for $25 (US) or $30 (non-US)
 >from:

 >CUFOS, 2457 West Peterson Avenue, Chicago, Illinois
 >60659 USA

 >Please help us. We need you.

 >Jerry Clark CUFOS officer IUR co-editor


I should have read the back-mail at UpDates sooner. Just popped
$25 in the mail as a "free and clear" donation. I hope others
will as well. Definitely worth saving folks.

Anyone out there not a member, please join. If you really care
about this topic, they need your support.


Sincerely,
Jerry Cohen
- - - - - - - - - - - - -







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              Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair' -

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 19:44:48 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 00:14:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair' -


 >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 22:42:28 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Spider Webs Spark Theories Of 'Angel Hair'

<snip>

 >Here's a word of caution about 'normal contrails'. They normally
 >die out promptly, several aircraft lengths behind the high-
 >flying jet on clear days with (weak) large-scale sinking motion
 >in the air aloft (around 30-35,000 ft). Those are days when the
 >sky is bluer than usual, often there are no high clouds around
 >at all, and these conditions usually occur shortly after a cold
 >front has passed by.

 >On days with (weak) large-scale upward motion aloft, which
 >usually produces at least a few wispy cirrus clouds, it is
 >_normal_ for the high-flying jet trails to persist up to hours
 >(30-35,000 ft). They often then widen somewhat. Conditions for
 >this usually occur prior to arrival of a cold front. If there
 >are frequent flights in a north-south airlane over your area,
 >for example, then a prevailing west wind carries these
 >persisting contrails eastward, leading to a series of parallel,
 >widening contrail swaths, some of which may join together to
 >produce a high partial overcast.

 >All this is normal. However, I can't speak to abnormal
 >conditions of low-flying releases of material in a cross-hatched
 >coverage. Haven't ever seen that (in western Oregon).

Hi everyone!

Not wishing to change the topic, I do want to say that Jim makes
sone very important comments regarding airplane contrails,
streaks in the sky which are still being mistaken as chemtrails
by some. A recent example of contrails and clouds being mistaken
for chemtrails and chemical haze is the "Chemtrails Over
Toronto" article in Jeff Rense's web site (see URL below).

http://www.rense.com/general30/tor.htm

I also saw these same "chemtrails" over Toronto and wondered
just how many other people who saw them too mis-identified them
as such. The conditions that day (increased moisture in the air,
colder temperatures and the right wind speeds at those
altitudes) were ideal to produce such spreading airplane
contrails and the haze or thin clouds seen in the photos. Why do
I think the haze that eventually formed was due to moisture in
the air and not chemicals in the form of dust, smoke or powder?
Well, if you look at the second photo, one can clearly see a
"Sun Dog" to the left of the Sun. Sun dogs are produced by
frozen water crystals, not by chemicals or other fine
particulate matter.

Snow is not something that one sees in weather reports in the
Middle East where I once worked, but dust is. As part of my job,
every day I used to determine the amount of dust particles in a
cubic meter of air. On those days when the amount of particulate
matter was large enough to form a haze or tint the sky, such as
during dust/sand storms, the total amount in the sky would be so
large that one would literally require a fleet of thousands of
airplanes to deposit it. In short, the haze we saw over Toronto
in those photos was not produced by chemicals. They are just
thin clouds made of water.

If there really is a sinister plot to spray us for whatever
reason, then it could be done much more efficiently by vehicles
on the ground, such as those trucks spraying chemicials through
many city neighborhoods to kill mosquitos that may carry the
deadly West Nile virus. Another very effective way to introduce
such chemicals, without our knowledge, would be directly into
our drinking water supply. I understand that President Bush
proposed doing just this very thing with Prozac, but please do
not blame me for promoting another story I read on the Internet
which may prove to be false too...


Nick Balaskas






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                  Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 21:14:03 -0300
Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 00:18:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Ledger


 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto)
 >Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:30:15 EDT
 >Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs?

 >>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 23:54:54 -0300
 >>Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs?

<snip>

 >>One of the most obvious, I would suggest, is the Valentich case.

 >Which could have been a hoax. In any case, who has proven what
 >happened, and its cause?


What? He hoaxed his death?

Don







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              Stones In Cuban Depths Fuel Atlantis Speculations

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 05:28:34 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 00:35:23 -0400
Subject: Stones In Cuban Depths Fuel Atlantis Speculations


Source: The Washington Post

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A3507-2002Oct9.html

Stig

***

In Cuban Depths, Atlantis or Anomaly?

Images of Massive Stones 2,000 Feet Below Surface Fuel Scientific
Speculation

By Kevin Sullivan
Washington Post Foreign Service

Thursday, October 10, 2002; Page A25

**

HAVANA -- The images appear slowly on the video screen, like
ghosts from the ocean floor. The videotape, made by an unmanned
submarine, shows massive stones in oddly symmetrical square and
pyramid shapes in the deep-sea darkness.

Sonar images taken from a research ship 2,000 feet above are
even more puzzling. They show that the smooth, white stones are
laid out in a geometric pattern. The images look like fragments
of a city, in a place where nothing man-made should exist,
spanning nearly eight square miles of a deep-ocean plain off
Cuba's western tip.

"What we have here is a mystery," said Paul Weinzweig, of
Advanced Digital Communications (ADC), a Canadian company that
is mapping the ocean bottom of Cuba's territorial waters under
contract with the government of President Fidel Castro.

"Nature couldn't have built anything so symmetrical," Weinzweig
said, running his finger over sonar printouts aboard his ship,
tied up at a wharf in Havana harbor. "This isn't natural, but we
don't know what it is."

The company's main mission is to hunt for shipwrecks filled with
gold and jewels, and to locate potentially lucrative oil and
natural gas reserves in deep water that Cuba does not have the
means to explore.

Treasure hunting has become a growth industry in recent years as
technology has improved, allowing more precise exploration and
easier recovery from deeper ocean sites. Advanced Digital
operates from the Ulises, a 260-foot trawler that was converted
to a research vessel for Castro's government by the late French
oceanographer Jacques Cousteau.

Since they began exploration three years ago with sophisticated
side-scan sonar and computerized global-positioning equipment,
Weinzweig said they have mapped several large oil and gas
deposits and about 20 shipwrecks sitting beneath ancient
shipping lanes where hundreds of old wrecks are believed to be
resting. The most historically important so far has been the USS
Maine, which exploded and sank in Havana harbor in 1898, an
event that ignited the Spanish-American War.

In 1912, the ship was raised from the harbor floor by the U.S.
Army Corps of Engineers and towed out into deeper water four
miles from the Cuban shore, where it was scuttled. Strong
currents carried the Maine away from the site, and its precise
location remained unknown until Ulises's sonar spotted it two
years ago.

Then, by sheer serendipity, on a summer day in 2000, as the
Ulises was towing its sonar back and forth across the ocean like
someone mowing a lawn, the unexpected rock formations appeared
on the sonar readouts. That startled Weinzweig and his partner
and wife, Paulina Zelitsky, a Russian-born engineer who has
designed submarine bases for the Soviet military.

"We have looked at enormous amounts of ocean bottom, and we have
never seen anything like this," Weinzweig said.

The discovery immediately sparked speculation about Atlantis,
the fabled lost city first described by Plato in 360 B.C..
Weinzweig and Zelitsky were careful not to use the A word and
said that much more study was needed before such a conclusion
could be reached.

But that has not stopped a boomlet of speculation, most of it on
the Internet. Atlantis-hunters have long argued their competing
theories that the lost city was off Cuba, off the Greek island
of Crete, off Gibraltar or elsewhere. Several Web sites have
touted the ADC images as a possible first sighting.

Among those who suspect the site may be Atlantis is George
Erikson, a California anthropologist who co-authored a book in
which he predicted that the lost city would be found offshore in
the tropical Americas.

"I have always disagreed with all the archaeologists who dismiss
myth," said Erikson, who said he had been shunned by many
scientists since publishing his book about Atlantis. He said the
story has too many historical roots to be dismissed as sheer
fantasy and that if the Cuban site proves to be Atlantis, he
hopes "to be the first to say, 'I told you so.' "

Manuel Iturralde, one of Cuba's leading geologists, said it was
too soon to know what the images prove. He has examined the
evidence and concluded that, "It's strange, it's weird; we've
never seen something like this before, and we don't have an
explanation for it."

Iturralde said volcanic rocks recovered at the site strongly
suggest that the undersea plain was once above water, despite
its extreme depth. He said the existence of those rocks was
difficult to explain, especially because there are no volcanoes
in Cuba.

He also said that if the symmetrical stones are determined to be
the ruins of buildings, it could have taken 50,000 years or more
for tectonic shifting to carry them so deep into the ocean. The
ancient Great Pyramid of Giza in Egypt is only about 5,000 years
old, which means the Cuba site "wouldn't fit with what we know
about human architectural evolution," he said.

"It's an amazing question that we would like to solve," he said.

But Iturralde stressed that the evidence is inconclusive. He
said that no first- hand exploration in a mini-submarine had
been conducted, which would provide a much more comprehensive
assessment. He said a remote-operated video camera provides only
a limited perspective, like someone looking at a close-up image
of an elephant's toe and trying to describe the whole animal.

The National Geographic Society has expressed interest and is
considering an expedition in manned submarines next summer,
according to Sylvia Earl, a famed American oceanographer and
explorer-in-residence at the society.

"It's intriguing," Earl said in an interview from her Oakland,
Calif., home. "It is so compelling that I think we need to go
check it out."

Earl said a planned expedition this past summer was canceled
because of funding problems. But she said National Geographic
hopes to explore the site next summer as part of its Sustainable
Seas research program.

Earl has visited Cuba and described the preliminary evidence as
"fantastic" and "extraordinary." But she stressed that as a
"skeptical scientist," she would assume that the unusual stones
were formed naturally until scientific evidence proved
otherwise.

"There is so much speculation about ancient civilizations," she
said. "I'm in tune with the reality and the science, not the
myths or stories or fantasies."

As they search for answers, Weinzweig and Zelitsky have suddenly
become involved in a new mystery -- the discovery of a potential
blockbuster shipwreck. They said that on Aug. 15, their remotely
operated vehicle came across what appears to be a 500-year-old
Spanish galleon that they had been searching for.

They declined to name the ship, fearful of other treasure
hunters, but they said it carried a priceless cargo of emeralds,
diamonds and ancient artifacts. By contract, they said they can
keep 40 percent of the value of whatever they recover. They said
the value of findings at the newly discovered wreck could far
exceed the nearly $4 million that their private backers have so
far invested in their operations.

Weinzweig said a closer examination is needed to prove the
ship's identity. He said that in treasure hunting, as in the
search for Atlantis, there is no substitute for science.

"One thing is legend," he said, sitting on Ulises's bridge.
"Another is the hard evidence you find on the ocean floor."

**

=A9 2002 The Washington Post Company








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               Re: Thinking Critically Is Key To Understanding

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 00:28:43 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 07:54:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Thinking Critically Is Key To Understanding


 >From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:21:00 UT
 >Subject: Re: Thinking Critically Is Key To Understanding Science

<snip>

 >I took my university's course in critical thinking and I would
 >say that this Garbutt fails in his own critical thinking skills
 >by using CSICOP's publications as a major source since CSICOP
 >has, itself, failed in critical thinking.

<snip>

 >What is one man's sense is another's nonsense.

Bill:

Do you mean like the time that you concluded that because
Venus was visible in the East before dawn, that it wouldn't
be visible West of the Sun in the afternoon, like the four
UFO sightings that you wrote about?

This, of course, would have meant that as the Earth turns
during the day, the sky does not. Or, would it be that the
Earth doesn't turn? Or would it be that you just don't have
the faintest idea how the sky looks even without UFOs?
Why, you couldn't even accurately measure the altitude
of the Moon to within 20 degrees.

If you forget this published example of your critical thinking,
please see you article about the "Skydancer" UFO in the MUFON
UFO Journal (April 1994). Please compare your claims to the
following excerpt from my article, which the MUFON Journal
declined to publish.

Table - "UFO" observations vs. Venus position (Tellstar)
(Observer               Date/time - UFO: Azimuth, Altitude; Venus: Az, Alt)
Archie 6/8 11:00                  - UFO: 225 deg, 30 deg; Venus: 219, 60
Archie 7/5 11:45                  - UFO: "high",     Venus: 244, 58
Hamilton, Pam, Archie 8/14 12:15  - UFO: 262, 80-85; Venus: 250, 61
Hamilton, Mike, Steve 8/21 12:05  - UFO: 250,    75; Venus: 243, 65
Hamilton, Drue, Archie 8/28 12:11 - UFO: 240,   85;  Venus: 240, 64

While none of the positions given are exactly that of Venus,
except for the August 8th azimuth, how accurate are any of the
positions given by the observers? The only sighting given which
includes a known astronomical object for comparison is on August
14 when Hamilton, Pam and Archie saw an object one binocular
field "west" of the moon, which they said was at "about 80-85
degrees elevation." Consulting an ephemeris one finds that at
that time the moon was 65 degrees high, an error of 15-20
degrees. If we give the observers the benefit of the doubt and
assume that this is the maximum error that they ever made in
their measurements, three of the four reported locations for
UFOs and Venus are within this error box!

On August 14 Venus was 7 degrees east of the Moon, at almost
exactly the 6 degree diameter of the 10 X 50 Bushnell binoculars
that they used (Sky & Telescope, 1994, ads for Bushnell
binoculars). If one assumes that the observer confused the
object's direction as "east" instead of "west, Venus could have
been in the field of view.

In three out of four cases, elevations given for the UFOs are
greater than Venus, as was the Moon's for August 14 (80-85
degrees instead of its actual height, 61 degrees). Experienced
astronomical observers know that this is a common error. Most
people report any object over 45 degrees (half-way up) to be
"overhead".


Clear skies,

Bob Young








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                 Re: Rusty's 'Angel Hair' Lab Report - Young

From: YoungBob2@aol.com
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 00:38:54 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 07:57:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Rusty's 'Angel Hair' Lab Report - Young


 >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 22:18:39 +0000
 >Subject: Re: Rusty's 'Angel Hair' Lab Report

<snip>

 >I remain highly skeptical, but insofar as credible witnesses
 >come forth with testimony that suggests something beyond the
 >"normal," their testimony should be taken seriously, but most of
 >all thoroughly investigated in terms of possible mundane
 >explanations.

Hello, Dick:

This is eminently good advice, which should also apply to UFOs.


Clear skies,

Bob Young








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                         Re: Crisis at CUFOS - Bott

From: Murray Bott <murrayb@win.co.nz>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 18:02:10 +1300 (NZDT)
Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:23:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Crisis at CUFOS - Bott


Greetings List

I am one who wants to see CUFOS continue to flourish. I appeal for
List readers to spread the word and try and get support for CUFOS
by way of subscriptions, donations etc.

Here are some thoughts I would like people to consider

Matters on the CUFOS Crisis.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

For those who have offered some discussion on the pending
Crisis at CUFOS, and for those who have offered some criticism
(of CUFOS) I would like to make the following suggestions and
comments.

CUFOS is one of the worlds leading UFO research organisations
and is a level-headed scientifically based group. It holds
records which are a "priceless" collection of data on the UFO
subject.

I am one who has highly valued the work they are doing, a few
years ago when I had first contact with them they were very
helpful with providing information which I was seeking.

To lose any part of its operation and/or files would be a major
disaster for Ufology and for serious research.

In order to help CUFOS survive I suggest the following:-

(1). Subscribe to "International UFO Reporter" (IUR) - if you
      don't already have a subscription

(2). Encourage at least one other person (or even more) to take

      out a similar subscription - or make a gift of a
      subscription to one of your friends/research colleagues.

(3). Buy a CUFOS Publication - to help your own research and
      (and any profit made by CUFOS will help their work)

(4). Make a "Cash Donation" to CUFOS towards their fund and thus
      ongoing survival.

(5). Find other positive ways and ideas to help CUFOS survive
      and not only take those steps, and post these to the "list"
      so others can do likewise.

         ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And for those "Critics" of CUFOS (or critics of the way CUFOS
runs) and wish to see that CUFOS "goes under" and doesn't
survive then I suggest you do the following:-

(1). Sit back and do nothing

(2). Offer criticism of CUFOS and anything you can find fault
with things they do.

(3). Start making comments about how inevitable it is that CUFOS
is "doomed" and wont survive.

(4). Generally continue being negative find everything wrong.

(5). Discuss problems within Ufology in general and ignore
the immediate problem relating to CUFOS.


Regards

Murray Bott

--
Email : murrayb@win.co.nz
Voice : 64-9-6345285
Snail : PO Box 27117, Mt Roskill, Auckland 1030, New Zealand







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                  Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 22:56:21 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:25:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Hatch


 >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 14:38:29 +0000
 >Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs?

 >>From: Albert Rosales <Garuda79@aol.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:16:22 EDT
 >>Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs?

 >>Hello everyone, in reference to deaths associated to UFO
 >>incidents I found this case, which has an indirect connection:

 >>Santa Rita, Venezuela
 >>October 6 1961  night

 >>A huge lighted object flew at very low altitude over the city of
 >>Santa Rita, apparently its brilliance illuminated the entire
 >>city. It then flew slowly towards Lake Maracaibo causing
 >>considerable panic among the local fishermen. Many of them dived
 >>into the water in a state of panic, one man, Bartolome Romero
 >>drowned as a result of the panic.

 >Albert,

 >Oddly enough I remember that case. We (at NICAP) carried a
 >report on it in The U.F.O. Investigator.

 >- Dick

Hello Albert and sir Richard:

Yes, Dick remembers correctly. It was in Vol.2 #3 of the
NICAP Ufo Investigator, Kehoe's Aliens from Space book,
page 71, and others which probably followed later.

I have it listed briefly as:

#6324: 1961/10/6 2300h 10 72:13W 9:55N SAM VNZ MAR
SANTA RITA,VNZ: LRG UFO >S OVR LAKE:FISHERMEN DIVE:1 DROWNS:
/r47p71+/APRO 9'61
Ref# 24 NICAP: UFO INVESTIGATOR Volume 2 Issue 3

Perhaps the drowning resulted from panic, rather than some
direct effects from the UFO. I'd like a good description of the
'UFO' BTW, for all I knew it was a fireball.

Out of 17,922 cases listed in the *U* Database, 438 or 2.44% of
them are flagged for INJ (injuries up to and including death)
associated with a UFO sighting.

If this number seems high, its partly because I counted animal
as well as human injuries, and some injuries were relatively
minor.

The vast majority, if not all of these, seem to result from some
accident or side effect, rather than any hostile intent on the
part of the UFO or its makers.

In contrast, there is one case of a man partially blinded by a
beam shot at his head in the Florida Everglades by a saucer like
craft as I recall. The shot seemed intentional, even if the
human injury was not.

I haven't sifted thru to see how many of the 438 injuries
resulted in death, that would take some time. Offhand, I suppose
the number is small. There are credibility questions with some
of the more lurid reports of course.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch

= = = = = = =







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                Re: Rusty's 'Angel Hair' Lab Report - Hebert

From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 01:55:38 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:27:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Rusty's 'Angel Hair' Lab Report - Hebert


 >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 10:00:20 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Rusty's 'Angel Hair' Lab Report

 >>From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 10:37:26 -0500
 >>Subject: Rusty's 'Angel Hair' Lab Report

 >>Analysis of 'Angel Hair' Deposited in Burlington, West Virginia
 >>(September 19, 2000)

<snip>

 >Thanks for posting the Budinger analysis.

You're welcome.

 >It proves the point I
 >was trying to make. The angel hair falls are not composed of a
 >single substance, like spider web (although spider web might be
 >included), but are a conglomerate of substances, including
 >insect silk and other chemicals and materials. But this is not
 >natural or common. Some force has drawn all these various
 >substances together, transformed the mixture, and then dispersed
 >it from on high. Can we agree on this?

I'm sorry but I do not agree, Ed.

The lab report does not support your contentions. In fact, the
results indicate the likelihood the four samples of alleged
"angel hair" analyzed by Frontier Analysis, Inc. were probably
created by naturally occurring biological sources similar to
silk produced by spiders, caterpillars and other silk producing
insects.

Go to:

http://vanguardarchives.home.attbi.com

and click on "Analysis of "Angel Hair" Deposited in Burlington,
West Virginia (September 19, 2000)" to read the report again.

On page 2 of the report in the conclusion section, P.A. Budinger
states, "The data do show the fiber is close to that of silk
made by insects and caterpillars. Also coating the fiber are
droplets commonly noted in insect silk."

On page 4, the report indicates that several FT-IR spectra were
obtained of the fibrous material. The report states, "The spectra
are very similar to that of spider silk, tent caterpillar silk, and
silk (from processed silk, i.e. silk scarf). It suggests that the
sample source is from a biological origin, i.e. animal, which may
include webs from insects and caterpillars."

The report repeatedly indicates the tests show the alleged
"angel hair" sample closely resembles silk from insects and
caterpillars with some silicate (dirt) adhering to the sticky
material. The report does not indicate evidence of other
materials which just happen to have fragments of insect and/or
spider webs mixed in. It indicates the sample fibers closely
match the spectra of spider silk, tent caterpillar silk and silk
(from silk scarf) with traces of other components which the
report attributes to being possible final degradation products
*not* some mysterious "conglomerate" of substances.

You may observe that on page 5 of the report the infrared
spectrum of the white fibrous material (angel hair) from
Burlington, West Virginia was compared to the infrared spectra
of spider silk, tent caterpillar silk and silk (from silk
scarf). It is quite clear that the Burlington sample spectra
closely matches the spectra of spider silk, tent caterpillar
silk and silk (from silk scarf).

Further, on page 6 of the report, the infrared spectra of "angel
hair" samples from Burns, Oregon (11-4-99), Sacramento,
California (11-11-99), Los Gatos, California (10-19-20-77), and
Burlington, West Virginia (9-19-00) were compared to each other
indicating all four sambles not only resemble each other but
also the infrared spectra of spider silk, caterpillar silk and
silk (from silk scarf).

Due to these results, one might logically conclude these four
samples of alleged "angel hair" were the actually result of
naturally occurring biological sources rather than the result of
some mysterious phenomena.

 >Although the WV fall is composed of various insect silks & other
 >flotsam and jetsam, it's still classic angel hair.

On what evidence do you base this conclusion?

 >There was a
 >half-mile square fall in Feb., 1955, in Elmira, NY that was
 >identified by a chemistry professor as radioactive, heavily
 >damaged cotton fiber, but a photo reveals the same classic angel
 >hair characteristics.

If the chemistry professor (who probably had some training in
the analysis of various substances) had an actual physical
sample of the material to study first-hand, this does not
compare to conclusions reached by the mere study of a photograph
of the same sample.

Do you have the report from the chemistry professor that we may
study?

 >Perhaps the angel hair phenomena might be defined as a fall from
 >unknown sources which consists of various fibers and silks that
 >have accumulated for unknown reasons and have been dispersed in
 >a manner yet to be determined. I don't think it can be
 >dismissed by blaming it on migrating spiders.

And perhaps the angel hair phenomenon has become so distorted by
biased reporting and misidentifications that it is next to
impossible to sort the signal from the noise. Like you, many
people tend to read what they want in reports and report what
they want others to read rather than what really happened and
what may be ultimately revealed through careful, scientific
analysis.

I don't blame the situation on migrating spiders either. I blame
it on biased perceptions and analyses that strongly inhale. ;>

A. Hebert








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                     Re: CUFOS Crisis - Ballester Olmos

From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos@yahoo.es>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 12:20:49 +0200 (CEST)
Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:42:12 -0400
Subject: Re: CUFOS Crisis - Ballester Olmos


 >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 22:55:01 +0100
 >Subject: Re: CUFOS Crisis

 >And here is IUN, produced in the most prosperous country on
 >earth, with a domestic customer base of over 250 million
 >English-speakers, in a language which makes it accessible to
 >another 60 million in the British Isles, more in Canada, South
 >Africa, Australia and the rest of the English-speaking
 >Commonwealth, and which is also the world's most widely spoken
 >language. And yet it is failing! What is going wrong?


John,

Perhaps the answer lies in the fact that probably those
magazines are produced and edited by commercial (professional)
publishers and they are sold through the large distribution of
kiosks and bookstores.

A journal, sold by subscription, can't compete, specially with
the bloom of internet.


Regards,

V-J







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                          Re: UFOs And... - Speiser

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 03:33:14 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:50:11 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs And... - Speiser


 >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 10:47:35 -0700
 >Subject: Re: UFOs And...

 >>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 23:34:36 -0700
 >>Subject: Re: UFOs And...

 >>Just out of curiosity, why does it seem like _every_ strange or
 >>out-of-the-ordinary occurence is almost _automatically_
 >>accompanied by reports of UFOS?

 >>Bigfoot sighted - UFO reported in area. Chupacabras? UFOs. Crop
 >>Circles... and UFOS. Cattle Mutes... and UFOs. Massive Power
 >>Failure in Northeast... UFOs seen near main power station. Space
 >>Shuttle Explodes... UFOs sighted near launch tower. It's so bad
 >>that I was able to predict that someone would report a UFO near
 >>the World Trade Center on 9/11... and as I recall, they did.

 >>I dunno, gang, this sounds a little psycho-social to me.

 >Below are four examples of testimony that connects UFO with the
 >sighting of angel hair. I could cite many more with the same
 >flavor and common characteristics. Do you need more evidence?
 >Let's try to explain this phenomena, not explain it away.

I was speaking generically, and not specifically of angel hair,
but I would ask how diligently these reports were followed up?

It could very well be that someone found some kind of strange
substance, and said, "Hey, let's turn this in and say we saw a
UFO just before we found it!"

Understand, I am _not_ saying that angel hair is not classically
associated with UFOs, just that we need to be careful... "UFO
seen in area" does not tell us how close in either time or
proximity.


==JJS==









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                     Re: UFO Related Injuries - Speiser

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 03:59:43 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:52:39 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Related Injuries - Speiser


 >From: Albert Rosales <Garuda79@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 18:16:20 EDT
 >Subject: Re: UFO Related Injuries

 >Lest we forget, Betty Cash who died in December 29 1998, oddly
 >enough the same date of her infamous UFO encounter in December
 >29 1980 near Huffman Texas. Betty Cash, along with Vickie
 >Landrum and grandson Colby Landrum, encountered a huge diamond
 >shaped UFO accompanied by military helicopters on a dark road in
 >the east Texas Piney Woods.

I've always considered this a top-notch case, except for one
little problem that grows larger and larger in my mind every
time I hear of it.

The witnesses stated that there were 23 helicopters. Not "a
couple dozen," not "20 or so", but 23.

Now if I were confronted by a large, diamond-shaped UFO at close
range, belching sparks and whatever else, and surrounded by
helicopters, the _last_ thing, I mean the _very_last_ thing I
would have the presence of mind to do would be to count the
helicopters, especially if there were that many.

Can anyone help me with this?


==JJS==








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             Interactive UFO Experience On SCI FI's 'Taken' Site

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 14:40:36 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:55:43 -0400
Subject: Interactive UFO Experience On SCI FI's 'Taken' Site


Source: The Arizona Reporter

http://www.azreporter.com/news/10-14-02/taken.html

Stig

***

SCIFI.com Gets Interactive with Ambitious 'TAKEN' Site

Ambitious Online Push Behind SCI FI Channel's 'Steven Spielberg
Presents TAKEN'

Source: SCI FI Channel

Published: Thursday, October 17, 2002

**

NEW YORK -- This December, SCI FI Channel will premiere the
biggest miniseries ever seen on television, Steven Spielberg
Presents Taken.

The epic event takes on new dimensions with the ambitious help
of SCI FI Channel's award-winning web site, SCIFI.com. TAKEN is
a sweeping drama that weaves together the lives of three
families over four generations and their crucial roles in the
history of alien abduction and government conspiracy.

In addition to its in-depth look at the 10-night miniseries,
SCIFI.com will also bring to light the rich personalities,
current research and ongoing mythos of the UFO phenomenon in
America - all of which inspired the drama of TAKEN. Beginning
this month on SCIFI.com, fans can visit:

http://www.scifi.com/taken

Get a closer look... and get TAKEN! A primer of everything you
need to know about the television event of a lifetime. Exclusive
first- looks at the latest trailers, background information on
the extensive cast, and a special interview with Steven
Spielberg are several site highlights. Then bring TAKEN home to
your desktop with special features like a downloadable self-
  updating screensaver, which provides ongoing information,
trailers and other goodies.

Meet the cast...and the experts! SCIFI.com will also feature a
wide array of TAKEN chats that will bridge the gap between
entertainment and real-life, offering-up a wide array of UFO
phenomenon experts and the actors themselves. Heather Donahue
(Blair Witch Project) kicks off the talent questionfests on
October 17, and interactive time with Matt Frewer, Julie Benz
and Anton Yelchin will follow. For those interested in expanding
their abduction knowledge, jump online to chat with Roswell
experts Don Schmidt and Tom Carey and famed alien abduction
author Budd Hopkins in November.

http://www.scifi.com/ufo

For a look at the real-life events and research that inspired
the stories of TAKEN, fans can access columns by some of today's
top experts on UFO phenomena in this special ufology site.
Respected author/researcher Budd Hopkins and other insiders
provide weekly columns examining difference aspects of the UFO
abduction, the Roswell Incident and other intriguing research
into this area.

Learn more about how the American public weighs in on the topic
- and what they want the government to do about it in the
results of a Roper poll recently commissioned by SCI FI Channel.

Visitors can also play Alien Abductor, an interactive game that
puts players in the role of a flying saucer sent to Earth to
abduct humans. You can use your abductor ray to pick up your
fleeing victims after forcing them out of their homes and
trailers parks with your disintegrator ray. When the military
shows up to take you out, turn the disintegrator ray on them
too!

Turn to the UFO Hotspot Map - a complete color-coded map of the
United States that will guide you through the territories which
have been visited by extraterrestrials.

Send in the stories about your "taken" experiences, or your own
photos and evidence of UFOs for examination by the experts. And
take a look at the evidence and tales from your fellow
Americans!

Ask yourself some probing questions about the possibility of
your own extraterrestrial encounter by logging onto SCIFI.com's
ufology site (www.scifi.com/ufo). There, you will get "taken" to
our special UFO abduction quiz. Are your answers consistent with
those reported by abductees? If so, SCI FI could put you in
touch with an abduction expert to learn even more.

SCIFI.COM (www.scifi.com) is the official site of the SCI FI
Channel and the No. 1 science fiction destination on the
Internet. In addition to in-depth information on Channel shows,
the site covers the broad spectrum of sci-fi, from daily news
and reviews to award- winning online series and original stories
by today's top authors. SCIFI.COM is a "People's Choice" Webby
Award winner and a Flash Forward Award winner. Stories published
on SCIFI.COM have also earned two Nebula Awards and a World
Fantasy Award. The site was launched in 1995 and is part of the
SCI FI Channel, a program service of Universal Television
(www.universalstudios.com), a division of Vivendi UNIVERSAL
Entertainment (VUE), the U.S.-based film, television and
recreation entity of Vivendi Universal, a global media and
communications company.

Contact: SCI FI Channel
Lisa Del Colle, 212/413-5421
ldelcolle@usacable.net

for more information: sci-fi channel web site

http://www.scifi.com








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   Oct > Oct 18

               Pulse Lasers Enforce Change In SETI Methodology

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 15:41:01 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 11:56:58 -0400
Subject: Pulse Lasers Enforce Change In SETI Methodology


Source: United Press International

http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=3D20021016-042928-2542r

Stig

***

Jockstrip: The world as we know it

By Ellen Beck
United Press International
 From the Life & Mind Desk

Published 10/17/2002 4:00 AM

<snip>

NEWS OF OTHER LIFE FORMS

Even as new telescopes are built to search for signals from
other planets, changes in human telecommunications are forcing
researchers to reconsider what to look for and how to scan the
skies.

Scientists with the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence or
SETI have painstakingly combed the stars since 1960, looking for
signals from other civilizations. The search was for strong
radio signals, the rationale being other civilizations would
operate communications systems that evolved in the same way as
those on Earth.

Human communications have shifted to high data rates and lower
power signals, making them more difficult to detect, so if
aliens did the same, their signals also would be harder to
detect.

Researchers had also assumed optical signals -- flashes of light
-- would not be worth looking for because they would be would be
lost in the wash of surrounding starlight, but Lawrence
Livermore Laboratory in Livermore, Calif., has challenged that
assumption. Scientists have developed pulse lasers for use in
fusion power generation. A signal from a distant planet using
such a laser would be far brighter than starlight and could be
strong enough to be seen on Earth.

Copyright =A9 2002 United Press International








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              Argentina: Possible Human Mutilation? CORRECTION

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:15:05 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 12:01:08 -0400
Subject: Argentina: Possible Human Mutilation? CORRECTION


The following just in from our Contributing Editor Gloria
Coluchi in Argentina:

The article from InfoBae should read not that the "police is
interested determining the existence of any links between the
elderly woman's death and the cattle mutilations,"

but rather:

They are trying to ascertain "any possible link between her
own death and that of the two animals with her." (the companion
animals)

We apologize for the confusion.

Regards and thanks,

Scott Corrales
Institute of Hispanic Ufology
www.inexplicata.com








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               Re: Thinking Critically Is Key To Understanding

From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 13:38:29 UT
Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 12:06:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Thinking Critically Is Key To Understanding


 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 00:28:43 EDT
 >Subject: Thinking Critically Is Key To Understanding Science

 >>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:21:00 UT
 >>Subject: Re: Thinking Critically Is Key To Understanding Science

 ><snip>

 >>I took my university's course in critical thinking and I would
 >>say that this Garbutt fails in his own critical thinking skills
 >>by using CSICOP's publications as a major source since CSICOP
 >>has, itself, failed in critical thinking.

 ><snip>

 >>What is one man's sense is another's nonsense.

 >Bill:

 >Do you mean like the time that you concluded that because
 >Venus was visible in the East before dawn, that it wouldn't
 >be visible West of the Sun in the afternoon, like the four
 >UFO sightings that you wrote about?

 >This, of course, would have meant that as the Earth turns
 >during the day, the sky does not. Or, would it be that the
 >Earth doesn't turn? Or would it be that you just don't have
 >the faintest idea how the sky looks even without UFOs?
 >Why, you couldn't even accurately measure the altitude
 >of the Moon to within 20 degrees.

 >If you forget this published example of your critical thinking,
 >please see you article about the "Skydancer" UFO in the MUFON
 >UFO Journal (April 1994). Please compare your claims to the
 >following excerpt from my article, which the MUFON Journal
 >declined to publish.

<snip>

I'd already demolished your entire argument when I posted to
this List that this so-called 'Venus' went from a hovering
position to an extremely rapid speed across the sky, reversed
its trajectory and returned. I also have video showing one of
these in hovering mode, and a second "Venus" moving past it.

Now, where are your critical thinking skills when you are trying
to match up the behavior I reported, with the planet Venus,
which I can and have readily identified numerous times?


-Bill H








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               Funding Crisis Threatens To Take Down SETI@home

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 16:24:58 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 12:08:20 -0400
Subject: Funding Crisis Threatens To Take Down SETI@home


Source: ZDNet Australia

http://www.zdnet.com.au/newstech/communications/story/0,2000024993,20269078,=
00.htm

Stig

***

Tech-crash threatens to take down SETI@home

October 15, 2002

**

The future of SETI@home, an Internet-based distributed computing
experiment to find radio signals from intelligent alien life-
forms, is in serious danger as academics behind the project face
a funding crisis.

Australian scientists early next year were to be given a
prominent role in the project to record data from radio
telescopes and distribute it to 4 million PCs volunteered to
analyse it. However that plan appears set to fail along with the
entire project unless organisers can raise the sponsorship
SETI@home needs to survive.

SETI@home chief scientist, University of California-based Dan
Werthimer, has told SETI (Search for Extra-Terrestrial
Intelligence) Australia chairman, Dr Frank Stootman, that all
work on SETI@home II, which would see radio data recording
equipment installed at the Parkes telescope facility in NSW, had
stopped until funding dollars to save the global experiment were
found.

"I'm sorry we haven't been working on SETI@home II at Parkes,"
wrote Werthimer in an apologetic e-mail to his antipodean
colleague. "Our funding is drying up and we are very uncertain
about the future of SETI@home I and II".

Werthimer said that SETI@home engineers had finished building a
multi-beam down-converter and data recorder for Parkes but said
that the project's organisers had no money to follow through on
the work.

Werthimer has laid the blame for the funding drought squarely at
the feet of tough economic times.

"I'm working hard trying to raise more funds, but as you know,
it's not an easy time to raise money.

"Sorry things are so uncertain", he wrote.

The CSIRO Australian Telescope National Facility's Time
Assignment Committee has already approved the installation of
the equipment at Parkes. Chairman of the allocation committee,
Professor Ray Norris, said he was not aware SETI@home was in
danger of running out of funds.

The revelation comes at a time when there are indications that
relations between SETI@home organisers and their home institute,
University of California Berkeley campus, are strained.

According to sources close to ATNF, Berkeley may not be hosting
the site that distributes data with the best graces.

"I know that the Berkeley isn't happy that its site is getting
hammered by all these people wanting data because it creates a
lot of traffic that they have to pay for," said the source.

Dr Stootman said it would be a terrible loss for the Australian
astronomers if SETI@home could no longer survive. The situation
has compelled Stootman to send out a plea for financial support
to help ensure the future the project.

"If there are philanthropists who think the project is
worthwhile, I would, on behalf of SETI Australia and UC
Berkeley, gratefully receive it," he said.

SETI@home's current sponsor list includes Sun Microsystems, The
Planetary Society, Fujifilm, IBM, Intel, Hewlett-Packard,
Quantum Corporation, Network Appliance and Informix.

US-based SETI scientists have held plans to host a data
recording equipment at Parkes for over a year.

The Parkes facility is more powerful than that currently used to
record the data at Arecibo, Peurto Rico and its addition would
widen the search for extra-terrestrials to the Southern
Hemisphere.

By harnessing the collective power of the PCs the project can
approximate the work of supercomputers, vastly improving the
probability of discovering intelligent extraterrestrial life.

**

Copyright =A9 2002 CNET Networks, Inc. All rights reserved. ZDNet
is a registered service mark of CNET Networks, Inc. ZDNet Logo
is service mark of CNET Networks, Inc.










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   Oct > Oct 18

                  Michigan Crop Circles 'Defy Explanation'

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 16:49:17 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 12:14:06 -0400
Subject: Michigan Crop Circles 'Defy Explanation'


Source: The Saginaw News via MichiganLive

http://www.mlive.com/news/sanews/index.ssf?/xml/story.ssf/html_standard.xsl?=
/base/news-3/1034347823191890.xml

Stig

***

Farm's crop circles called 'weird'

Friday, October 11, 2002

BRYCE HOFFMAN
THE SAGINAW NEWS

**

The mysterious appearance of two crop circles in a Fremont
Township farm field so far has defied explanation, prompting
some to suggest aliens have landed in Saginaw County.

Gordon G. Turner, 59, discovered the phenomena in a parcel of
feed corn north of Roosevelt about a mile west of South Hemlock.

Turner said he was harvesting about 5 p.m. Wednesday when he
encountered the smaller of the circles, which is about 20 feet
in diameter, and wrote it off as the work of a hunter.

He stopped the tractor when he saw the larger circle, about 90
feet in diameter, four rows off.

"There's something weird here," he said. "I never saw anything
like it. I don't think some weather thing could make a circle
that perfect. The first thing I thought is something landed
here, but I don't know."

The corn stalks are pressed flat to the ground, facing alternate
directions in rows. A Thursday inspection by Turner and a
Saginaw County sheriff's deputy revealed no footprints, litter
or other signs of an obvious hoax, Turner said.

"I don't know what I believe anymore," he said. "It's a mystery
to me."

Mature cobs of corn and a few green leaves remaining on the
stalks suggest the circles are less than a couple of weeks old,
said Turner, who has farmed all his life.

L. Doug Rogers, U.S. coordinator for the London-based Centre for
Crop Circle Studies, tracks the phenomenon in North America.
Rogers said he does not recall any previous reports of crop
circles in Michigan.

"There have been more crop circles showing up in the United
States this past year where there haven't been any," he said.

It would take aerial photographs, precise measurements of each
circle and laboratory analysis of soil samples to determine
whether these circles are candidates for paranormal explanation,
said Rogers, who has studied crop circles since 1989.

"Corn is a lot more difficult to analyze than, say, wheat,
barley or oats," he said.

Rogers said he believes that some crop circles are left by
visitors from outer space.

"Many of the crop circles have characteristics about them that
are beyond the abilities of humans to construct," he said. "It
gets to be very interesting."

Signs of a hoax include a circle with ragged edges, inconsistent
diameter or evidence of a pike stuck in the middle of the circle
for guidance, Rogers said.

Crop circles have more to do with superstition than science,
said Gerald L. Peterson, professor of psychology at Saginaw
Valley State University and co- founder of the Tri-City
Skeptics, a group of citizens who seek rational explanations for
the possibly paranormal.

"I would prefer a more commonplace explanation," said Peterson,
who has not inspected the circles. "It wouldn't surprise me,
with the popularity of the movie 'Signs' and people in the area,
that someone has done that."

"Signs" is a movie that involves crop circles and the suggestion
they are placed by aliens.

Peterson said members of his group have planned in the past to
create crop circles. It appears somebody beat them to it, he
said.

"We've got some very creative hoaxing going on," he said.

Lynne C. Gilbert, 50, is not so sure. Her home is in a stand of
evergreen trees a few hundred feet from the crop circles.

"The past few nights, I have heard the dogs barking late," she
said. "Maybe we have an extraterrestrial here. Wouldn't that be
cool? You could almost spit at my house from here, and I didn't
hear a thing."

Turner's wife, 59-year-old Lynne, said she is a believer in
extraterrestrials. She says the circles could have formed from
the landing pad of a spaceship.

"Maybe the big one is where the ship landed, and maybe the
little one is where the stairs came down," she said. "I have no
idea."

**

Bryce Hoffman is a staff writer for The Saginaw News. You may reach him at
776- 9673.

=A9 2002 Saginaw News. Used with permission.

Copyright 2002 Michigan Live. All Rights Reserved.








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   Oct > Oct 18

                Re: Raelians Take Swing At Catholic Church -

From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 18:46:27 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 13:12:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Raelians Take Swing At Catholic Church -


 >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 07:32:53 +0200
 >Subject: Raelians Take Swing At Catholic Church

 >Source: The Globe And Mail (Toronto)

 >http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/PEstory/TGAM/20021015/URAELN/n
ational/national/national_temp/3/3/18/

 >Stig

 >***

 >Oddball Raelians take a wild swing at Catholic church

 >By INGRID PERITZ

 >Tuesday, October 15, 2002 ? Print Edition, Page A1

 >**

 >MONTREAL - As long as they stuck to wacky topics such as cloning
 >humans and communing with little green men in spaceships, the
 >Quebec sect known as the Raelians never really bothered anyone.

 >But the group's latest gambit has crossed the line from loopy to
 >offensive for many people in the province, including several
 >school boards and the Roman Catholic Church.

 >For the past few weeks, sect followers have gathered in front of
 >high schools and colleges in Quebec, urging students to renounce
 >their Catholicism and get "de-baptized."

 >They hand out pamphlets illustrated with a burning cross. At
 >times, they have handed out wooden crosses, too.

<snip>

Hello folks,

Are any single Listerian men interested in joining me in a hoax
prank directed towards the Raelians? It would require us to
simulate whatever the Raelian description is of an advance alien
team contacting them. We would arrive at the Raelian
headquarters and then have our choice of female devotees who
would be jostling each other to be chosen by us as our hostesses
and sexual mates.

If you are interested in this mission of the Listerions' arrival
at the Raelians, please contact me directly. Those with sexually
transmitted diseases are not eligible. If we can really fool
those folks we can guide the process towards them creating
multiple clones of our own selves.

I'm not sure of the cloning as I may have a great deal of
trouble agreeing on anything with my clone. I have a tough
enough time trying to live with only one of me. <g>.


Josh










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                          Re: CUFOS Crisis - Clark

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 12:12:04 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 13:22:00 -0400
Subject: Re: CUFOS Crisis - Clark


 >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 22:55:01 +0100
 >Subject: Re: CUFOS Crisis

 >I find it very strange that CUFOS should be in such a financial
 >crisis when its journal IUR enjoys the inestimable advantage of
 >being published in the world's second most understood language
 >after Chinese - English.

CUFOS has other expenses besides magazine production, John. We
keep those expenses as low as possible, and only one person - a
part-time office manager who has steadily reduced her hours over
the yeras - is getting paid. CUFOS' office and archive is
hardly fancy, but you can't rent anything cheap in Chicago.

The sad truth may be that even among people who claim to be
interested in UFOs, the market for a conservative,
intellectually serious approach is at best a niche one,
involving no more than a few hundred people, plus some casually
curious outsiders. At CUFOS we have devoted hundreds, probably
thousands, of hours to this question, and we have no certain
answers. All we know is that we face the reality we now face.


 >If UFO magazines can be produced in languages which have
 >practically no currency outside their native countries, and
 >thrive on such a limited customer base, why can't IUN with is
 >hugely greater customer base?

What is IUN? IUR with a typo? If the latter: well, the answer
is, we wish we knew. We're out of ideas.


Jerry Clark








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                 Re: Rusty's 'Angel Hair' Lab Report - Young

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 16:55:52 +0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 13:24:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Rusty's 'Angel Hair' Lab Report - Young


 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 00:38:54 EDT
 >Subject: Re: Rusty's 'Angel Hair' Lab Report

 >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 22:18:39 +0000
 >>Subject: Re: Rusty's 'Angel Hair' Lab Report

 >>I remain highly skeptical, but insofar as credible witnesses
 >>come forth with testimony that suggests something beyond the
 >>"normal," their testimony should be taken seriously, but most of
 >>all thoroughly investigated in terms of possible mundane
 >>explanations.

 >Hello, Dick:

 >This is eminently good advice, which should also apply to UFOs.

 >Clear skies,

 >Bob Young

Bob,

It clearly does apply to UFOs as well. There thousands of
credible witnesses have reported objects with well-established
patterns, and that have no mundane explanations. Once again,
read The UFO Evidence, Volume II (or any other data-rich source
of systematically analyzed cases).

Clear thinking,

Dick








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   Oct > Oct 18

               Disclosure2003 Campaign Press Release - Oct 18

From: Stephen Bassett <Disclosure2003@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 15:48:49 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 21:46:56 -0400
Subject: Disclosure2003 Campaign Press Release - Oct 18


     D I S C L O S U R E 2 0 0 3
MD 8th District Congressional Campaign of Stephen Bassett

      Press Release - October 18, 2002

Bethesda, MD - Three more important venues have refused to allow
independent candidate, Stephen Bassett, to participate in their
debate/forums. There are 71,000 voters in the MD 8th District
registered as 'independent." Mr. Bassett achieved ballot access
via 5177 nominating signatures from voters.

Access to issues and ideas has been denied by:

[ http://www.mpt.org/ ]Maryland Public Television - PBS Channel 22
Candidate Debate - October 21, Monday
11767 Ownings Mills Blvd, Ownings Mills MD 21117
410-581-4097 or 1-800-627-6788[ mailto:comments@mpt.org ]
comments@mpt.org

[Note: Incredibly, this public television station only permits
candidates, who are polling at 15% OR HIGHER, to be in, their
debates. Maryland Pubic Television receives taxpayer funding and
is essentially telling those 71,000 taxpayers to go pound sand.
This is the role the pubic want public television to play in the
election process?].


[ http://www.nbc4dc.com/ ]NBC Affiliate WRC Channel 4
Candidate Debate Tuesday, October 22, 10 =E2=C7" 11:30 a.m.
4001 Nebraska Avenue, NW, Washington, DC
202-885-4000

[ mailto:nbc4dc@nbc.com ]nbc4dc@nbc.com

[Note: NBC 4 only permits candidates who can win the election
and are "news worthy" to participate in their debates. Issues
and ideas are secondary. Does WRC stand for "We Reject
Candidates?"]

Jewish Community Council/Temple Beth Ami
Candidate Forum Thursday, October 24, 8 =E2=C7" 10 p.m.
14330 Travilah, Rockville, MD
301-340-6818

[Note: the Jewish community in the metro area holds more
candidate debates and forums then any other single group. This
is wonderful and should be emulated by other community segments.
But sadly, without exception, third party and independent
candidates are not allowed to be part of their debates and
forums. What a shame.]

Spear Lancaster, Libertarian Party candidate for governor, who
collected over 35,000 signatures, is also being excluded from
private and public forums. This is wrong, and the American
people and democracy are not being well served.

  _________________________________________________

     Transparent government, private citizenry
  _________________________________________________

        Campaign Headquarters
        Bethesda/Gaithersburg
       4938 Hampden Lane, #161
        Bethesda, MD 20814
     Phone: 301-990-4290  Cell: 202-431-2459
      Email: Disclosure2003@aol.com
      Website: www.disclosure2003.net










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   Oct > Oct 18

             Re: Dave Furlotte's SDI 210 'Take On It' - Speiser

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 11:22:18 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 21:51:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Dave Furlotte's SDI 210 'Take On It' - Speiser


 >From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 18:18:45 -0400
 >Subject: Dave Furlotte's SDI 210 'Take On It'

<snip>

 >First person reports of events, which are due the same respect
 >as any witness in court until proven otherwise

Really? What is the penalty for cyber-perjury? :-)

 >The Internet, and the little-censored shortwave broadcast
 >networks, are every bit as capable of delivering factual
 >information as are dusty volumes on a law library shelf.
 >Furthermore, the Internet and the shortwave broadcast networks
 >are the _only_ places where those with legitimate, even crucial,
 >causes can get their message published.

The only problem is that the non-factual information published
on the Internet is oft times indistinguishable from the factual,
unless as you say it is accompanied by reliable citations and
references.

==JJS==








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                  Re: NZ Herald On 50th Anniversary - Bott

From: Murray Bott <murrayb@win.co.nz>
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 07:32:32 +1300 (NZDT)
Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 22:00:41 -0400
Subject: Re: NZ Herald On 50th Anniversary - Bott


 >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 05:51:42 +0200
 >Subject: NZ Herald On 50th Anniversary

Greetings List

Stig Agermose wrote:

 >Source: The New Zealand Herald

 >http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm?storyID=2998771&thesection=news&the
subsection=general

 >Stig

The New Zealand Herald article did contain some minor
distortions in the article.

The story was the result of my having sent the press release
(see below) to several newspapers - including the New Zealand
Herald. They interviewed me via phone as well as Harvey Cooke
and sent a photographer to my home which was included in the
article. The photo shows me sitting in my "Archives" of New
Zealand UFO Material

Regards
Murray Bott

See:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/oct/m12-009.shtml







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                          Secrecy News -- 10/18/02

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 15:06:21 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 09:40:07 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 10/18/02


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2002, Issue No. 103
October 18, 2002


**      IMPLEMENTATION OF THE USA PATRIOT ACT
**      A CANDID STATEMENT FROM NSA
**      DCI TENET AND INTELLIGENCE FUNDING
**      FOIA ACTIVITY PEAKED IN 2001


IMPLEMENTATION OF THE USA PATRIOT ACT

Last year's controversial anti-terrorism law known as the USA
PATRIOT Act has "enabled the Government to respond more
efficiently and effectively to the terrorist threats against
us," the Justice Department said in a voluminous response to
questions from the House Judiciary Committee on implementation
of the Act.

The response, released yesterday by the Committee, provides new
information on diverse aspects of the complex law including
foreign intelligence surveillance, detention of immigrants
suspected of terrorism, the sharing of grand jury information
with intelligence agencies, and dozens of other topics.

(The Department even mentions the nearly forgotten, undelivered
report to Congress on "leaks" of classified information that was
due last May 1:  "On April 29, 2002, the Attorney General
tendered his report on unauthorized disclosures of classified
information for Administration clearance. Once cleared through
the multi-agency process, the report will be submitted to the
Congress."  This has not yet happened.)

Some of the Justice Department answers are oblique or
unsatisfactory. For example, the number of court orders to
compel disclosure of records from a public library, bookstore,
or newspaper, if any, is said to be classified.  This is hard to
understand, particularly since the number of (FISA) court orders
for search and surveillance of suspected foreign spies or
terrorists is not classified.

The text of the Justice Department response to Congress is
posted here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2002/10/doj101702.html

Information on USA PATRIOT Act implementation that has been
withheld from public disclosure is being sought in a lawsuit
filed by the ACLU and the Electronic Privacy Information Center.
  A critical perspective on the USA PATRIOT Act may be found
here:

http://www.epic.org/privacy/terrorism/usapatriot/


A CANDID STATEMENT FROM NSA

National Security Agency Director Michael V. Hayden presented an
unusually frank statement about his normally reticent agency in
an appearance yesterday before the congressional Joint Inquiry
on September 11.  It was, he said, "one of the few times in the
history of my Agency that the Director has testified in open
session about operational matters."

He outlined "how SIGINT is done" and described the challenges
facing his agency in the global environment, in recruiting, and
in resources.

He acknowledged the limitations of NSA performance while
defending the agency from some of the specific charges leveled
against it in connection with September 11.  He also called for
public guidance on the proper balance between security and civil
liberties.

"I am not really helped by being reminded that I need more
Arabic linguists or by someone second-guessing an obscure
intercept sitting in our files that may make more sense today
than it did two years ago," he told the joint congressional
committee.

"What I really need you to do is to talk to your constituents
and find out where the American people want that line between
security and liberty to be."

The text of Gen. Hayden's prepared statement is here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2002_hr/101702hayden.html


DCI TENET AND INTELLIGENCE FUNDING

In his lengthy prepared statement before the congressional Joint
Inquiry yesterday, DCI George Tenet elaborated on the emergence
of the al-Qa'ida threat.

But at one point he also lamented that "during the 1990s our
Intelligence community funding declined in real terms - reducing
our buying power by tens of billions of dollars over the decade.
We lost nearly one in four of our positions. This loss of
manpower was devastating."

Arguably, this drop in intelligence spending was exacerbated by
the fact that the intelligence budget is classified.  As Senator
John Glenn pointed out at the time, budget secrecy enabled
defense appropriators to raid the intelligence budget with
impunity and left proponents of increased intelligence spending
effectively silenced. If so, it would be one more mismatch
between national security secrecy and actual national security.

DCI Tenet's October 17 statement is here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2002_hr/101702tenet.html

A newly declassified version of a statement presented by DCI
Tenet at a closed hearing on June 18 is posted here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2002_hr/061802tenet.html


FOIA ACTIVITY PEAKED IN 2001

"The total number of Freedom of Information Act/Privacy Act
access requests received by all federal departments and agencies
during fiscal year 2001 was 2,246,212," which is a record high,
according to a new Justice Department summary of agency annual
reports.

The government-wide backlog of pending requests at the end of
the year was 177,969, which is a 5% increase over the previous
year.

The Department of Energy reported the longest median processing
time of any agency, a withering 2009 days.

Total costs of implementing the Freedom of Information Act
throughout all federal agencies was $287,792,041.08.

See the "Summary of Annual FOIA Reports for Fiscal Year 2001"
prepared by the Justice Department Office of Information and
Privacy here:

http://www.usdoj.gov/oip/foiapost/2002foiapost27.htm


_______________________________________________

Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood@fas.org
voice:  (202) 454-4691









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   Oct > Oct 19

                   Re: Pulse Lasers Enforce Change In SETI

From: eleanor@raven1.net
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 15:13:03 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 09:42:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Pulse Lasers Enforce Change In SETI


 >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 15:41:01 +0200
 >Subject: Pulse Lasers Enforce Change In SETI Methodology

 >Source: United Press International

 >http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID021016-042928-2542r

 >Stig

 >***

 >Jockstrip: The world as we know it

 >By Ellen Beck
 >United Press International
 >>From the Life & Mind Desk

 >Published 10/17/2002 4:00 AM

 ><snip>

 >NEWS OF OTHER LIFE FORMS

 >Even as new telescopes are built to search for signals from
 >other planets, changes in human telecommunications are forcing
 >researchers to reconsider what to look for and how to scan the
 >skies.

<snip>

I can't help wondering why SETI doesn't use the most powerful
form of communications ever devised - psychic scanning, aka
remote viewing, of the cosmos? (Personal opinion: That would
succeed, and the government just can't have that!)


Eleanor White








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   Oct > Oct 19

                      Richard Brunwick Photocollection

From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos@yahoo.es>
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 00:06:20 +0200 (CEST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 09:45:39 -0400
Subject: Richard Brunwick Photocollection


Hello List members, the other day I happened to Amazon-purchase
a copy of the 1999 German published book entitled 'UFO Richard
Brunwick Photocollection', which contains a strange assortment
of 300 unknown, so-called, UFO photographs.

Probably this has already been discussed here, sorry in this
case for being redundant. I'd appreciate your assessment of the
book's content as well as your opinion of the author's research,
as I am pondering whether or not I should include this fancy
(mostly blurred) set of photos into a serious catalog of UFO/IFO
photography. Fakes by the author, real ones, a mixture of both?

Anyone know?

Thanks for any well-based evaluation.

Best regards,

V-J







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   Oct > Oct 19

                      EW: SETI Denies ET Funding Crisis

From: Kurt Jonach - The Electric Warrior
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 16:41:22 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 09:48:07 -0400
Subject: EW: SETI Denies ET Funding Crisis


--------------------------------------------------

The Electric Warrior : Web Log October 18, 2002
http://www.electricwarrior.com/

--------------------------------------------------
 >> SETI DENIES ET FUNDING CRISIS
extraterrestrial intelligence

photo: New SETI Dish
http://www.electricwarrior.com/img/SETI_ParkesDish.jpg

(The Electric Warrior) - If you heard rumors that Earth's most
popular ET outreach program has run out of money then rest
assured that SETI@home is not in danger of being cancelled.

As reported by ZDNet, "SETI@home's director has moved to dampen
fears the project is in danger of closing, claiming its chief
scientist was 'probably just in a pessimistic mood' when he e-
mailed Australian scientists with a gloomy prognosis for its
future."

Project director David Anderson told ZDNet that SETI@home's
chief scientist never realized his recent email comments would
be publicized around the world. Like most academic research
projects, SETI@home is funded from one grant to the next and
lives with the constant threat of closure.

As Anderson tells it, SETI's main sponsors are The Planetary
Society and the state of California. The project was also
awarded a large grant to develop a distributed computing
software platform called BOINC. Although SETI also enjoys
corporate funding by information technology companies, those
sponsors have cut back in the wake of a down turn in the high-
tech sector.

SETI ANNOUNCES HARDWARE & SOFTWARE UPGRADE

SETI's upcoming hardware and software upgrade should improve the
odds for acquiring what many people assume we already have:
proof of extraterrestrial intelligence.

SETI's new radio telescope at Parkes Observatory, Australia will
be operational early next year. The new SETI dish has two
advantages over the exiting Aricebo dish in Puerto Rico.

Not only does Australia's dish cover more of the sky, it is also
located in the Southern Hemisphere, where most of the Milky Way
galaxy can be observed. SETI@home's project director David
Anderson told Space.com the chances of finding ET outside the
Milky Way is "pretty small."

The world's most popular ET screensaver was the first
application to harness the Internet's aggregate of unused CPU
cycles. SETI@home gangs together over 600,000 volunteer
computers in a distributed processing scheme called "grid
computing."

The SETI@home model was so successful, and its sheer computing
power so coveted by other scientists, that Anderson got a grant
from the National Science Foundation to develop a ready to use
distributed computing package called BOINC (Berkeley Open
Infrastructure for Network Computing).

BOINC will be an important part of the new version of the
popular SETI@home screensaver, which will be distributed at the
same time the Parkes dish goes online. Not only will BOINC allow
you to pick and choose what scientific problems you want to
tackle, it will also seamlessly upgrade your software
installation without interrupting the screensaver.

No wonder the folks at Berkeley say they rule the sky.

--------------------------------------------------
RELATED RESOURCES

18-Oct-02
SETI@home director denies funding crisis
http://www.zdnet.com.au/newstech/communications/story/0,2000024993,20269164,00.h
tm

(ZDNet) AUSTRALIA - SETI@home's director has moved to dampen
fears the project is in danger of closing... The director, David
Anderson, told ZDNet Australia "we all have to devote a lot of
our energy to raising money...sometimes it can be a bit
discouraging."

16-Sep-02
SETI@home Brings Internet Distributed Computing
to Other Fields
http://www.planetary.org/html/UPDATES/seti/SETI@home/Update_091602.html

(The Planetary Society) - Computer time - is there ever enough
of it? The problem is as old as digital computing itself... For
some tasks, it seemed, no computing capacity was enough. These
tasks involved so much data, or calculations so complex, that
running them on a computer, even a supercomputer, was not
practical... Enter Internet Distributed Computing, a radical and
innovative answer to this nagging problem.

--------------------------------------------------
THE ELECTRIC WARRIOR
October 18, 2002
Silicon Valley, CA
http://www.electricwarrior.com

Graphics & Gonzo

--------------------------------------------------
This text is freely distributable for non-commercial purposes,
provided you cite The Electric Warrior. Web developers should
link here...

http://www.electricwarrior.com

Readers are strongly cautioned that The Electric Warrior asserts
it is OK to laugh and have a good time with some of this stuff.
Lighten Up! (You Have Been Warned)

The Electric Warrior is not responsible for the content of Web
links. Content reproduced here is for informational purposes
only. All copyrights Acknowledged.

eWarrior@electricwarrior.com










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   Oct > Oct 19

                Re: Rusty's 'Angel Hair' Lab Report - Gehrman

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 17:41:39 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 09:52:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Rusty's 'Angel Hair' Lab Report - Gehrman


 >From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 01:55:38 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Rusty's 'Angel Hair' Lab Report

 >>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 10:00:20 -0700
 >>Subject: Re: Rusty's 'Angel Hair' Lab Report

 >>>From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 10:37:26 -0500
 >>>Subject: Rusty's 'Angel Hair' Lab Report

 >>>Analysis of 'Angel Hair' Deposited in Burlington, West Virginia
 >>>(September 19, 2000)

 ><snip>

 >>Thanks for posting the Budinger analysis.

 >You're welcome.

 >>It proves the point I
 >>was trying to make. The angel hair falls are not composed of a
 >>single substance, like spider web (although spider web might be
 >>included), but are a conglomerate of substances, including
 >>insect silk and other chemicals and materials. But this is not
 >>natural or common. Some force has drawn all these various
 >>substances together, transformed the mixture, and then dispersed
 >>it from on high. Can we agree on this?

 >I'm sorry but I do not agree, Ed.

 >The lab report does not support your contentions. In fact, the
 >results indicate the likelihood the four samples of alleged
 >"angel hair" analyzed by Frontier Analysis, Inc. were probably
 >created by naturally occurring biological sources similar to
 >silk produced by spiders, caterpillars and other silk producing
 >insects.

Amy, List, Dick, Larry, Frank, EBK

Yes, I agree. My sample was composed of the same stuff. I never
stated that the raw materials that combine to make angel hair
are other-worldly. Nor do I think angel hair is the product of
chemical trails or anything along those lines.

But a fall of agel hair is not a mundane, natural event.

For a fall like the one I experienced to be a normal occurance,
you have to explain how all that material, 200 squ. miles of it,
got into the atmosphere and then fell from high in the sky in
whispy, five to ten foot long streamers. Then you should explain
why the touch and feel of angel hair is so unlike any web or
insect silk.

Why does it sublimate or lose charge and then disappear
in a few hours as though it had never existed. This is not web-like
behavior.

If you ever have the chance to experience this yourself then
you'll know what I'm talking about. Until then you'll have to
take my word for it... well not exactly my word because there
are many other witnesses who claim the same experience.

 >Go to:

 >http://vanguardarchives.home.attbi.com

 >and click on "Analysis of "Angel Hair" Deposited in Burlington,
 >West Virginia (September 19, 2000)" to read the report again.

 >On page 2 of the report in the conclusion section, P.A. Budinger
 >states, "The data do show the fiber is close to that of silk
 >made by insects and caterpillars. Also coating the fiber are
 >droplets commonly noted in insect silk."

 >On page 4, the report indicates that several FT-IR spectra were
 >obtained of the fibrous material. The report states, "The spectra
 >are very similar to that of spider silk, tent caterpillar silk, and
 >silk (from processed silk, i.e. silk scarf). It suggests that the
 >sample source is from a biological origin, i.e. animal, which may
 >include webs from insects and caterpillars."

 >The report repeatedly indicates the tests show the alleged
 >"angel hair" sample closely resembles silk from insects and
 >caterpillars with some silicate (dirt) adhering to the sticky
 >material. The report does not indicate evidence of other
 >materials which just happen to have fragments of insect and/or
 >spider webs mixed in. It indicates the sample fibers closely
 >match the spectra of spider silk, tent caterpillar silk and silk
 >(from silk scarf) with traces of other components which the
 >report attributes to being possible final degradation products
 >*not* some mysterious "conglomerate" of substances.

It's all mixed together and that indicates to me that what we
have in the five samples (including mine) is a mixture of
different silk-like strands and other assorted chemicals. If the
samples were from a ballooning spider event or from tent spiders
as you surmised then the analysis would have indicated that
fact. But it didn't. It said that the strands found in all
samples were "*similar*to silk produced by spiders, caterpillars
and other silk producing insects".  But that's fine with me
since I plan to show that the materail is a mixture of many
things, and that its composition is probablely determined by the
general vicinity in which it falls.

 >You may observe that on page 5 of the report the infrared
 >spectrum of the white fibrous material (angel hair) from
 >Burlington, West Virginia was compared to the infrared spectra
 >of spider silk, tent caterpillar silk and silk (from silk
 >scarf). It is quite clear that the Burlington sample spectra
 >closely matches the spectra of spider silk, tent caterpillar
 >silk and silk (from silk scarf).

 >Further, on page 6 of the report, the infrared spectra of "angel
 >hair" samples from Burns, Oregon (11-4-99), Sacramento,
 >California (11-11-99), Los Gatos, California (10-19-20-77), and
 >Burlington, West Virginia (9-19-00) were compared to each other
 >indicating all four sambles not only resemble each other but
 >also the infrared spectra of spider silk, caterpillar silk and
 >silk (from silk scarf).

 >Due to these results, one might logically conclude these four
 >samples of alleged "angel hair" were the actually result of
 >naturally occurring biological sources rather than the result of
 >some mysterious phenomena.

 >>Although the WV fall is composed of various insect silks & other
 >>flotsam and jetsam, it's still classic angel hair.

 >On what evidence do you base this conclusion?

Because it has all the characteristics of angel hair and it is
the same as my sample; and I saw angel hair.

The event took place exactly as I have described it.

The substance falls from the sky, is sticky to the touch,
sublimates, etc. just as the WV sample.

I didn't see a UFO but I wasn't looking up in the sky; I was
driving a narrow country road.

 >>There was a
 >>half-mile square fall in Feb., 1955, in Elmira, NY that was
 >>identified by a chemistry professor as radioactive, heavily
 >>damaged cotton fiber, but a photo reveals the same classic angel
 >>hair characteristics.

 >If the chemistry professor (who probably had some training in
 >the analysis of various substances) had an actual physical
 >sample of the material to study first-hand, this does not
 >compare to conclusions reached by the mere study of a photograph
 >of the same sample.
 >Do you have the report from the chemistry professor that we may
 >study?

Not a report but a photo of the professor holding a sample
and a description of what he found when he examined the material:
"short_fibred cotton" and "slightly radioactive".

It's from *The UFO Annual* 1955; M.K. Jessup, who makes other
interesting observations.

Send your mailing address off-list and I'll mail you what I
have. But he never identifies it as spider web.

 >>Perhaps the angel hair phenomena might be defined as a fall from
 >>unknown sources which consists of various fibers and silks that
 >>have accumulated for unknown reasons and have been dispersed in
 >>a manner yet to be determined. I don't think it can be
 >>dismissed by blaming it on migrating spiders.

 >And perhaps the angel hair phenomenon has become so distorted by
 >biased reporting and misidentifications that it is next to
 >impossible to sort the signal from the noise. Like you, many
 >people tend to read what they want in reports and report what
 >they want others to read rather than what really happened and
 >what may be ultimately revealed through careful, scientific
 >analysis.

Which biased reporting and misidentifications? Please give
examples. And what have I misrepresented or distorted? Please
give examples.

 >I don't blame the situation on migrating spiders either. I blame
 >it on biased perceptions and analyses that strongly inhale. ;>

If it's not migrating spiders, then what do you think it is?

I'll ignore the sarcasm,

Ed










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   Oct > Oct 19

                             Gleason - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 21:52:55 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 09:59:57 -0400
Subject: Gleason - Balaskas


 >From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 11:07:32 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Gleason

<snip>

 >Presidents aren't nearly as free as we might imagine. Nixon
 >couldn't simply go by himself to bring his buddy to see the
 >alien bodies, or whatever he's supposed to have done. The Secret
 >Service would have to go along. Whoever carried the nuclear
 >"football" - the device that allows the president to authorize
 >the use of nuclear weapons, should that be necessary - would
 >have to go, since this person never leaves the president's
 >immediate vicinity. The military base where the bodies allegedly
 >were would have to be notified. A visit from the president is
 >one of the biggest events that could happen on the base. The
 >base commander would have to be notified. Plans would have to be
 >made. Any movement the president makes has to involve an
 >astonishing number of people, and the arrangements have to be
 >made by staff aides, whose chief can effectively delay, hamper,
 >or even forbid some of the things the president wants to do.

 >High officials tend to be very effective bureaucratic
 >infighters. The commander of the base where the alien bodies
 >supposedly were might not have liked the idea of the president
 >bringing a civilian in, and could oppose it, both overtly and by
 >sheer stubborn inaction. The president could argue with his
 >aides (including such high-ranking people as the national
 >security advisor, who might also be appalled by something like
 >the Gleason visit). The aides will argue back. The president
 >can't turn everything into a confrontation. Like anyone in a
 >bureaucratic situation, even the top people, he or she depends
 >on good working relations with subordinates. Only rarely can a
 >president, or any CEO, simply order something to be done when
 >most or all of other top officials are against it.

<snip>

Hi Greg!

Below is a short excerpt from Grant Cameron's web page about
President Richard M. Nixon and UFOs which suggests that you may
be wrong.

http://www.presidentialufo.8m.com/richardm.htm


  Marty Venker, a Secret Service agent who worked with Merletti
  under Presidents Ford and Carter, however, tells a different
  story. His book 'Confessions of an Ex-Secret Service Agent'
  tells that not only can the President disappear, but it has
  happened. Venker stated that in the exact year of the Homestead
  incident with Gleason, 1973, Nixon had tried to cut his secret
  service protection. Venker also stated that it was not uncommon
  for Nixon to try to elude his secret service detail. The agents
  working on the Nixon Presidential detail had been warned about
  it.

  Venker even recounted one occasion when Nixon was able to ditch
  his secret service guards while at his California compound:

  "Nixon always felt that he was overprotected. He felt that he
  couldn't pick his nose without some agent taking notes. In 1973,
  he tried to cut his detail by a third. 'I don't like it and my
  family doesn't like it.' he said."

  "I'd be warned of the lengths Nixon would go to elude us. One
  time he snuck out of the San Clemente compound. His valet,
  Manolo Sanchez, drove past the agents in a car with Nixon
  stretched out in the back seat under a blanket. Nixon just
  wanted to go to a restaurant. But some reporters saw him and
  phoned the house. They wanted to know was Nixon was up to. The
  secret service told them, he's not at any restaurant, he's here
  at home. But then the agents found he was gone they chased him
  down."

  Nixon was very familiar with Homestead Air Force Base which was
  only minutes from his Biscayne Bay compound. Every time Nixon
  flew south to his "Southern White House" Air Force One would
  land at Homestead. In Nixon's first term as President he
  traveled to his Key Biscayne compound 55 times and spent 118
  nights there.

  Gleason, on the other hand, lived in nearby Miami, and owned his
  own golf course, the Inverrary Country Club nearby in Fort
  Lauderdale, Florida.

  There is no proof that Nixon escorted Jackie Gleason to view
  alien bodies at Homestead, but everything checked out indicates
  it could very well have happened. It would have been very easy
  in terms of distance for the Gleason/Nixon alien event to have
  occured.


Just as President Nixon allegedly went with his golfing buddy
Gleason to Homestead AFB to see the alien bodies, could
President Dwight D. Eisenhower have done the very same thing
nearly two decades earlier when he too disappeared for a while
during a golfing holiday in Palm Springs, California to secretly
visit Edwards AFB with friends to meet ETs? That same year,
1954, there is another rumour that Prince Philip, husband of
Queen Elizabeth of England (and Patron of The Golf Foundation!),
also met with an ET through the efforts of a retired General.
Also, around this same time, the Prime Minister of Canada along
with members of the RCMP and the Department of National Defense
allegedly made arrangements to meet with ETs at the secretly
constructed UFO landing site at CFB Suffield, Alberta (yes, near
the same golf course at Kananaskis where the world leaders from
the G8 countries met this year!).

Could there be an ET/golf connection we have all overlooked?
Since golf is a two player game and Apollo 14 astronaut Edgar
Mitchel (who has told us ETs are real) did not bring along his
golf clubs, who then did his fellow Moon walker, astronaut Alan
Shepard play golf with on the lunar surface? ;o)


Nick Balaskas








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   Oct > Oct 19

                Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Goldstein

From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 05:11:54 +0200
Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 10:03:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Goldstein


 >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 22:56:21 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs?

 >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 14:38:29 +0000
 >>Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs?

<snip>

 >>Oddly enough I remember that case. We (at NICAP) carried a
 >>report on it in The U.F.O. Investigator.

 >Yes, Dick remembers correctly. It was in Vol.2 #3 of the
 >NICAP Ufo Investigator, Kehoe's Aliens from Space book,
 >page 71, and others which probably followed later.

 >I have it listed briefly as:

 >#6324: 1961/10/6 2300h 10 72:13W 9:55N SAM VNZ MAR
 >SANTA RITA,VNZ: LRG UFO >S OVR LAKE:FISHERMEN DIVE:1 DROWNS:
 >/r47p71+/APRO 9'61
 >Ref# 24 NICAP: UFO INVESTIGATOR Volume 2 Issue 3

 >Perhaps the drowning resulted from panic, rather than some
 >direct effects from the UFO. I'd like a good description of the
 >'UFO' BTW, for all I knew it was a fireball.

 >Out of 17,922 cases listed in the *U* Database, 438 or 2.44% of
 >them are flagged for INJ (injuries up to and including death)
 >associated with a UFO sighting.

 >If this number seems high, its partly because I counted animal
 >as well as human injuries, and some injuries were relatively
 >minor.

 >The vast majority, if not all of these, seem to result from some
 >accident or side effect, rather than any hostile intent on the
 >part of the UFO or its makers.

 >In contrast, there is one case of a man partially blinded by a
 >beam shot at his head in the Florida Everglades by a saucer like
 >craft as I recall. The shot seemed intentional, even if the
 >human injury was not.

 >I haven't sifted thru to see how many of the 438 injuries
 >resulted in death, that would take some time. Offhand, I suppose
 >the number is small. There are credibility questions with some
 >of the more lurid reports of course.


Hi Larry,

In the attic of my mind I vaguely remember a case about that man
who was partially blinded. I don't think I have anything in my
files, but I'll take a look. Can you post what information you
have here?


Thanks,

Josh










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               UFOs In Russia: Witness Statements And X-Files

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 05:27:11 +0200
Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 10:07:03 -0400
Subject: UFOs In Russia: Witness Statements And X-Files


Source: Pravda.RU,

http://english.pravda.ru/main/2002/10/18/38372.html

Stig

***

Pravda.RU: Top Stories: More in detail

17:12 2002-10-18

UFOs in Russia: Witness Statements and X- Files

**

Unfortunately, if classified documents about UFOs actually
exist, it is highly problematic to obtain them in Russia. In
fact, researchers today have of just few official materials. At
that, it is generally admitted that the UFO question has been
studied for a long time by the Russian Academy of Sciences, the
State Hydrometeorology Committee, and the Defense Ministry (Yuly
Platov and Boris Sokolov refer to this in the report "History of
Soviet Studies of UFOs"; Retired Colonel Boris Sokolov worked as
a coordinator for anomaly studies at the Soviet Defense Ministry
and Academy of Sciences during 1978 -- 1989). Within the past two
years, lots of allegedly classified documents have appeared on
the Internet, which talk about the evacuation of some strange
objects held under the KGB aegis. However, it is unlikely that
these documents are reliable.

I can say for sure that a 127-page record of anomalous events
observed on the territory of the former Soviet Union and in the
Russian Federation, which KGB Deputy chairman Sham had given to
cosmonaut Popovich, is a document that really exists. However,
these documents only refer to events that have occurred in the
past; they don't provide any information for us to understand
how seriously the KGB treated the UFO problem. Thus, the
situation is paradoxical: everybody knows that the situation is
studied on the governmental level, but there are no open
documents revealing the results of these investigations
(certainly, except for the Platov-Sokolov work). It is strange,
because, if research is held, reports on the results achieved
must exist as well. Yuly Platov says that the government program
for UFO studies was launched in 1978 and continued till 1996
(there are some facts confirming that this program still exists,
but on a smaller scale). This means that for eighteen years,
money has been appropriated from the state budget to pay wages,
travel expenses, and so on to officials employed in the program.
It is likely that the research program was worth the spending.
It is unbelievable that the results of the program could be
expressed just in several sentences, the way it had been done by
the authors of the article: "Results of the work done revealed
that the majority of phenomena that people ascribe to anomalous
can be easily explained. They are basically connected with the
developing technical activity of humanity or with uncommon
natural phenomena. One of the most considerable results of the
investigation is not the identification of the majority of
phenomena observed by the people or an explanation of technical
details of how they occur, though the results achieved in this
direction are certainly great. The most astonishing thing is
that, although people often describe contacts with UFOs, the
collections compiled by UFO scientists are rather impressive,
but the large-scale project that involved all necessary
facilities reported nothing at all about UFO landings, contacts
with UFO pilots, or about people kidnapped by UFO. This means
that either the Soviet Union's territory was banned for UFO
visits for 13 years at least or the failure of the very
hypothesis of the extraterrestrial origin of UFOs. Any serious
investigator working on the UFO problem should at least take
this result into consideration."

I talked to a Strategic Missile Troops colonel who investigated
the landing of a UFO near a children's camp and the observation
of two humanoids conducting some tests near the camp. There is a
document confirming the UFO's landing in a village in the
Russia's Sverdlovsk region, contacts established between the
extraterrestrials and the villagers, and the results of
investigations held at the landing site. There are some more
facts that are quite reliable. That is why I disagree with the
official statement made by Platov and Sokolov, saying that no
official reports about UFO landings and no information about
contacts with UFO pilots was done.

As for the USA, the situation with documents about UFOs is much
better there. According to US legislation, any American citizen
can obtain copies of unclassified documents issued by any
governmental department. The Freedom of Information Act came
into effect in 1966. According to official FBI statistics, over
the past twenty years, the Bureau officials processed about
300,000 inquiries from US citizens and issued about 6 million
pages of unclassified documents. In 1975, when first personal
computers appeared, the documents were transferred to electronic
media. The majority of unclassified documents are currently
available on the Internet. These are unclassified documents
belonging to the FBI, the Agency for National Security, the CIA,
the Air Force, and others that provide evidence of UFO landings,
anomalous events, responses of governmental services to reports
of this kind, and official reports of federal agents and other
unique information. On the one hand, it is nice that American
researchers have wide access to information of this kind.
However, on the other hand, before declassification, all
documents are exposed to thorough censorship, and very often,
very valuable information is completely deleted from them.

A couple of days ago, I downloaded from the Internet documents
on official UFO research held by the CIA and the Agency for
National Security. Being extremely enthusiastic about it, I
opened the first files but became extremely disappointed when I
saw just official headlines and stamps on perfectly white sheets
of paper. All the information concerning UFO researche was
completely deleted by censors. It is true that these documents
help to arrange events chronologically, to trace their origin,
and to make some definite conclusions. However, in the end, the
documents provide nothing more than information that already
known to everyone.

Therefore, the situation concerning documents on governmental
research connected with UFOs is similar in Russia and the USA,
with the only differenc being that Russian researchers don't
have any documents at their disposal, and Americans, although
piled with heaps of documents on UFO research, can't derive any
benifit from the documents. This is like the X-Files, when
Mulder seems to be very close to a clue, but a strange man in a
suit and a cigarette between his teeth comes and takes all the
evidence away. The only thing left for us is to sit and shed
tears over the phrase: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE


What do journalists and military men say?


Here are the words of Eugeny Lutsenko taken from the archives of
the RUFOS, the Russian UFO station. "When I was in the army
during 1979- 1981 (I served in the air defense forces), a secret
order and methodical recommendations were in force then, which
said what we were to do if a UFO appeared. We used the
instructions in our training with soldiers. Our military unit
detached a group for participation in UFO studies. There were
places haunted by UFOs almost every other night. I wasn't in the
group, as I was a regular soldier, not a communist (which had
been really important during that Soviet period) and no first-
  class specialist. When the guys belonging to the group
returned, they said nothing at all, and we never asked, as we
understood that they had been ordered not to speak of the
details of the operation. However, when we were leaving the
army, they told what they had seen during the operation. They
said they had seen UFOs several times, including man-made
objects looking very much like our technology. It was
unbelievable at that time, and now we can speak openly about
it."

"The Soviet leadership also evinced great interest in UFOs. The
US press published information with reference to State
Intelligence Department double agent Yury Popov saying that the
Central Intelligence Department in the Soviet Army HQ issued a
secret directive in 1952. The third paragraph of the directive
was the task of finding out whether the UFOs breaking the Soviet
air boundaries were secret foreign flying machines, actions
specially organized by imperialistic secret services, or piloted
or not piloted extraterrestrial objects researching the Earth or
some unknown natural events. However, the Soviet government was
strenuously trying to veil its interest in UFOs and even issued
reports about ideological struggles against rumors of flying
objects and humanoids." (Vitaly Shelepov, 68 UFO Above the White
House, or How Air Forces and the Navy Quarreled About UFO)

"It is not accidental that the secret laboratory for UFO studies
was set up in the 1960s and was connected with the target ground
in Kapustin Yar. At the end of June, 1971, servicemen observed a
cigar- shaped black object that flew 800 meters above the clouds
near Kapustin Yar. The apparatus, which was 25 meters long and
about 3 meters in diameter, had neither stabilizers, wings, nor
engines. Its speed was 150 km/h, and it moved absolutely
silently. The laboratory also studied antigravitation questions;
it is quite natural that nothing was reported about its
achievements, if any were actually made. In 1978, the Soviet
Defense Ministry adopted a program called "The Moscow Region
Net." A military unit situated in the city of Mytishchi in the
Moscow region was picked as the center for data collection.
Special space troops were created in the Soviet Union to repulse
attacks from the space." (Alexander Dremin, Ufology secrets in
the Soviet Army; published in the 47th issue of Vozdushny
Transport (Air Transport) of November 22, 2000).

"A special, extremely secret laboratory for collecting data and
reports about anomalous space events was created in the city of
Mytishchi in the Moscow region. The laboratory was set up on the
premises of a military institute. All kinds of the Soviet troops
sent information about UFOs to the laboratory. We had all kinds
of specialist to be employed in cases when the army, military
technology, and armament was influence upon." (An extract from
report delivered by Defense Ministry Expert Alexander Plaksin,
on Russia's REN-TV television on October 8, 2000.)

Nikolay Subbotin
PRAVDA.Ru

Translated by Maria Gousseva

Read the original in Russian:
http://science.pravda.ru/science/2002/6/18/51/1469_ufo.html

**

Related links:

PRAVDA.Ru UFO politics. Is the US government ready to open up its
secrets
PRAVDA.Ru UFO flew over Perm stadium
PRAVDA.Ru Fifty-five years of insanity
PRAVDA.Ru Killer UFO in India
Salon : UFOs in the land of the rising sun
BBC : Red Planet to spark UFO sightings

Copyright =A91999 by "Pravda.RU". When reproducing our materials
in whole or in part, reference to Pravda.RU should be made. The
opinions and views of the authors do not always coinside with
the point of view of PRAVDA.Ru's editors.








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   Oct > Oct 19

                More UFOs Caught By Russian Military Cameras

From: Geoff Richardson <geoff@fastdog.karoo.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 21:06:49 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 10:08:38 -0400
Subject: More UFOs Caught By Russian Military Cameras


See The Russian files at http://www.thewhyfiles.co.uk



Geoff Richardson








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                 Can NASA Stop Newton's Apple From Falling?

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 05:45:50 +0200
Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 10:48:33 -0400
Subject: Can NASA Stop Newton's Apple From Falling?


Source: MSN's 'Slate'

http://slate.msn.com/?id=3D2072733

Stig

***

brave new world

Feeling Antigravity's Pull

Can NASA stop the apple from falling on Newton's head?

By Adam Rogers

Posted Friday, October 18, 2002, at 8:30 AM PT

**

"Don't call it antigravity research," Ron Koczor pleads. He's a
physicist at NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville,
Ala., and he's talking about a project he's been working on for
almost a decade. "Call it 'gravity modification.' 'Gravity
anomalies.' Anything but antigravity. That's a red flag."

When people find out that the National Aeronautics and Space
Administration has researchers working on sci-fi stuff like
antigravity_or rather, "gravity modification"_the red flags do
indeed start waving. Reputable scientists like Koczor earn
polite disdain from colleagues (or worse, from funders of
research). But truth's truth: NASA has been studying the
manipulation of gravity for at least 10 years, as have
nongovernment researchers.

NASA began its work after a Russian physicist named Evgeny
Podkletnov published an article in the peer-reviewed journal
Physica C in 1992. Podkletnov claimed that a device built around
a superconductor and a magnet could shield an object from
gravity. The trick, he said, was to make a superconducting disc
about a foot in diameter, chill it, levitate it over magnets_a
nifty property of superconductors is that they repel magnetic
fields_and set it revolving like a compact disc. Podkletnov said
an object placed above that contraption lost 0.3 percent of its
weight. The object itself didn't change. Rather, gravity's
effect on it lessened.

If that effect could be harnessed and strengthened, the
aerospace industry would be upended. Vessels bound for space
wouldn't have to ride atop massive, barely controlled
explosions. All the energy human beings expend moving things
around, from cargo to cars, could be reduced or eliminated. And
post-Einsteinian physics would have to be rewritten to explain
what the hell was going on. Podkletnov called the effect
"gravitational force shielding," and even in the absence of a
good theory to explain the phenomenon, other researchers took
notice. "Because his experiment and results were published in a
peer- reviewed, scientific journal, that gave it a level of
credibility," Koczor says.

After Podkletnov published his article, it took NASA until 1999
to figure out how to make a large, thin superconducting disc.
Ceramic high- temperature superconductors are brittle as cheap
china, and the discs kept shattering. Once they solved that
problem, NASA paid Columbus, Ohio-based SCI Engineered Materials
$650,000 to build the entire apparatus. But Podkletnov had
called for a disc with two layers, one superconducting and one
not, and SCI didn't solve that engineering challenge until last
year. Then they hit another roadblock. The disc wouldn't spin.
SCI engineers stuck a rotor through the disc's center to turn it
mechanically, but Podkletnov specified 5,000 revolutions per
minute. SCI's device barely pulls 30 rpm.

Why not just ask Podkletnov how to build the thing? SCI brought
him over to consult a couple of years ago, to little avail. "His
excuse basically was that he was a ceramics physicist, not an
electrical or mechanical engineer, and other people built the
device for him," Koczor says. "Draw your own conclusions. All I
know is, if I were a principal investigator on something like
this, I would know the size and thread-depth of every screw in
the damn thing. But you know, the Europeans and the Russians,
they're different. They're much more, 'this is your job and this
is my job.' So it's plausible that he didn't know the details."
It might not matter. SCI's contract is ending, and Koczor's
budget to explore "way-out physics" is spent. He hasn't got the
money to actually test the device even if it did meet
Podkletnov's specs.

But researchers outside NASA are working on the problem, too.
This summer Nick Cook, a writer for Jane's Defence Weekly,
reported that aerospace giant Boeing was pursuing antigravity
research. Boeing denied it. "We are aware of Podkletnov's work
on 'anti-gravity' devices and would be interested in seeing
further development work being done," said a company statement.
"However, Boeing is not funding any activities in this area at
this time." Note Boeing's use of the Clintonian present tense.
They never contacted Jane's to ask for a correction, Cook says.
Meanwhile, British aerospace company BAE Systems says it's
keeping an eye on the research, and that it had once funded its
own antigravity project, Greenglow.

Unfortunately, Cook strains his own credibility somewhat. A
couple of weeks after his Jane's piece appeared, Cook's book on
antigravity research, The Hunt for Zero Point, came out. In it,
he claims that the Nazis built an antigravity device during
World War II. Its absence from present-day science, Cook says,
implies a vast "black" world of secret antigravity aircraft that
might explain the UFOs people see over Area 51. He's a careful
investigative reporter, but once you start talking about UFOs
and Nazi antigravity you're not far from hidden tunnels under
the White House full of lizard-men disguised as Freemasons.

Even without Nazis, there are plenty of reasons to doubt
Podkletnov. My e-mails to the account listed on his recent
articles (not peer- reviewed) went unanswered. Even more
problematic, I can't find the institution he lists as his
affiliation in Moscow. "Eugene always expressed his worries that
others could copy his work, although as far as I know he never
applied for a patent," Giovanni Modanese, a collaborator of
Podkletnov's at the University of Bolzano in Italy, wrote in an
e-mail (using a Western version of Podkletnov's first name).
"Nonetheless, at the scientific level if one wants a
confirmation by others and a successful replication, one must
give all the necessary elements." Well, yeah. Modanese says that
the current version of the device, now called an "impulse
gravity generator," is simpler and could be built "by a big-
  science team of people expert in superconductivity." A Boeing
spokesperson didn't respond to follow-up questions. So, either
there's nothing going on here, or it's an X-File.

And the science? Ten years is a long time to go without
replication. Combine that with Podkletnov's cagey behavior and
it's enough to make even sci-fi geeks like me lose hope. But
like the core of any good conspiracy, antigravity research has
the ring of plausibility. One of the outstanding problems in
physics and cosmology today involves the existence of so-called
dark matter and dark energy. They're by far the main
constituents of matter in the universe, and nobody knows what
they're made of_researchers have only inferred their existence
from gravitational effects. Coming up with a new theory of how
gravity works might explain that, though it'd be a scientific
revolution on a par with relativity. "Changing gravity is in the
cards," says Paul Schechter, an astronomer at MIT. "But so far
no one's been able to do better than Einstein." Still, Einstein
worked in a lowly patent office. Ron Koczor works for NASA.

**

Adam Rogers, a reporter for Newsweek, is a Knight Science Journalism
fellow at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

=A92002 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.








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   Oct > Oct 19

                      'Earth vs. the Flying Saucers' A

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 06:24:47 +0200
Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 10:52:05 -0400
Subject: 'Earth vs. the Flying Saucers' A


Source: PopMatters,

http://popmatters.com/film/reviews/e/earth-vs-flying-saucers.shtml

The movie was originally released in 1956.

Stig

***

EARTH VS. THE FLYING SAUCERS
Director: Fred F. Sears
Cast: Hugh Marlowe, Joan Taylor, Donald Curtis
(Columbia Pictures, 1956) Rated: unrated
DVD release date: September 2002

by Mike Ward
PopMatters Film Critic

**

It Came From the Pentagon

*

The American people have proved that they can take shocking
situations... without collapsing in fear. If prepared carefully
- and honestly - they can take the hidden UFO facts, startling
as they may be. -Major Donald Keyhoe (USMC Retired)

Among the several oddities in 1956 alien invasion B-movie Earth
vs. the Flying Saucers, one stands out: its featureless,
otherworldly flying discs, with retractable rayguns like
satellite dishes on their underbellies, are a sum of all fears
about flying saucers. They travel at thousands of miles an hour,
attack without warning, and withdraw as quickly as they came.
What's more, they are potent and menacing even in their defeat.
They do the worst damage in their death throes, as a U.S. army
miracle weapon cripples them and, in the movie's signature
scenes, they careen into the Washington Monument and the Capitol
dome.

These scenes of mayhem in the nation's capital are so important
that they turn up at least four times in the wonderful new
Columbia Tri-Star DVD release of Earth vs. the Flying Saucers:
in the movie itself; in a short "featurette," an interview
between Earth vs. special-effects guru Ray Harryhausen and
Gremlins (1984) director Joe Dante; in an hour-long Harryhausen
biography, "The Harryhausen Chronicles"; and in a
contemporaneous trailer for Earth vs., provided along with
gorgeous trailers for other Harryhausen tours de force of the
1950s and 1960s.

Everyone knows how significant the Washington crash scenes are,
from the movie's makers and promoters to the next generation of
moviemakers, to the DVD's most likely viewers: Americans who've
since seen the destruction of their nation's landmarks in grim
reality. "I ended up with the saucers crashing into the Capitol
dome and knocking over the Washington Monument," the gentle
Harryhausen explains in "The Harryhausen Chronicles," adding a
little apologetically, "I'm glad to see they still stand today."

At the time of this writing, fifty years after Earth vs. the
Flying Saucers' release, the scenes Harryhausen discusses are
eerily in tune with our endless-war predicament. A moviemaker
chooses to smash an American emblem to generate some genuine
anxiety in his or her audience, and September 11 did not make
this so. Fear of the destruction of edifices and monuments is
nothing new. One way or another, this kind of fear has been
around quite a while.

The story of Earth vs. the Flying Saucers' conception suggests
that the destruction of American monuments has long been a
source of anxiety in this country. Producer Charles Schneer,
with whom Harryhausen had already worked on It Came From Beneath
the Sea (1955), was fond of clipping stories out of the
newspaper and UFOs were quite a flap in those days, Harryhausen
explains in "The Harryhausen Chronicles." Although the DVD never
makes clear what popular story provided Schneer with his
inspiration, the most likely candidate is a rash of flying
saucer sightings that took place in downtown Washington over two
July weekends in 1952.

Shocking and sensational, the event made world headlines, and
was so novel and so persistent in institutional memory that it
merited a 50-year retrospective in the Washington Post Sunday
Magazine last July. In full, astounding color on the magazine's
front cover is the incident's most famous image, a formation of
disk-shaped lights suspended over the Capitol dome. These lights
were a culmination of several strange happenings those weekends.
Commercial pilots radioed their controllers with accounts of
mysterious lights that changed direction abruptly and seemed to
travel at fantastic speeds. These objects sped effortlessly away
from interceptors, even when chased at full supersonic throttle.

Dozens of people on the national mall claimed to witness the
UFOs that descended on the house of Congress, and press coverage
of the event sparked a variant of the hysteria Orson Welles' War
of the Worlds broadcast stirred in the 1930s. For a few days,
hand-wringing citizens nationwide entertained the possibility
that Earth was on the verge of interplanetary contact, and maybe
interplanetary war.

Fortunately, all of this turned out to be just a really
complicated trick of the light, something the Air Force called a
"temperature inversion." But since the official explanation was
a bit hard to follow (atmospheric light and heat created
superfast, agile shining balls in the sky), some reserved the
right to wonder. And this skepticism sparked a different sort of
anxiety.

Among the skeptical and anxious was retired Marine Corps major
Donald E. Keyhoe, whom the Earth vs. the Flying Saucers title
sequence (directly contradicting Harryhausen) credits with
providing the inspiration for the movie. In a series of best-
selling books with such catchy titles as The Flying Saucers Are
Real (1950) and The Flying Saucer Conspiracy (1955), Keyhoe
claims that sightings such as occurred in Washington were
genuine visits from alien spacecraft with unknown motives. He
also believed that high-level government officials -- despite
their official denials and complicated explanations -- knew
about the alien visitors and were keeping the information
secret, presumably to avoid such panics as had threatened to
break out in July 1952.

Donald Keyhoe's distrust of government and suspicions of
conspiracy -- much of the source of his continued notoriety as a
progenitor of the enduring tradition that eventually, for
example, turned Area 51 and Roswell, New Mexico into sites of
pilgrimage -- are exactly what's missing from Earth vs. the
Flying Saucers as a self-described adaptation of The Flying
Saucers Are Real. The saucers in the movie version do not evade;
they destroy. Their motives -- world colonization and conquest -
- are perfectly clear. And the military, far from sinister and
secretive, is wholly benevolent, humanity's sole protector and
savior.

Some of Keyhoe's uncertainty makes it into the movie anyway,
though. All ends well in Earth vs. the Flying Saucers -- "I'm
glad it's still here," the female lead, Carol Marvin (Joan
Taylor), proclaims in the beach-and-sunset closing shot, meaning
the planet. "And still ours," asserts her husband, Dr. Russell
Marvin (Hugh Marlowe).

The end of the promotional trailer is a different story. "The
whole world is under attack," the narrator gasps as clips of
artillery batteries fight desperately with the indestructible
spaceships. Once more the saucer brings down the Washington
monument, followed by the trailer's final spoken words: "To the
best of our knowledge," Russell says into a tape recorder, "My
wife and I are the only ones left alive." Finally, the Capitol
dome explodes as the movie's title flashes across the screen and
the trailer ends.

The quote from Russell is cleverly taken out of context to give
the impression that the movie culminates in utter apocalypse.
Watching the scenes in context, we learn that her carries his
tape recorder with him at all times, so that he can describe and
record such "beautiful" scientific theories as come to him in
the course of daily life. (Russell, incidentally, is just as
insufferably self-involved as such conduct would indicate, but
the movie wants you to like him anyway.) His comment applies to
a military base that's just been attacked, not the world at
large. Yet in the trailer, the tape recorder appears to be
preserving "humankind" for posterity; the collapse of the
monument and the Capitol dome are apparent stand-ins for the
demise of the species as a whole.

Such, surely, was a source of anxiety for those who watched in
1952 as that squadron of malevolent temperature inversions
descended on the halls of government power. For those who take a
benign view of government's motives and influence, the prospect
of assault on government is also the prospect of disorder and
social collapse. Americans of the time, after all, had been
quite busy thinking about disorder and social collapse over the
past few years as they endlessly rehearsed duck-and- cover
exercises and simulated their own deaths in the broiling winds
of atomic holocaust. Such fears had crystallized not long
before, with the Soviet Union's announcement that it, too, had
acquired The Bomb.

This, anyway, is the conventional wisdom about the '50s cold-war
sci-fi flick. It hasn't aged very well; over time, the question
of who presented the greater menace to the American people in
the 1950s has gotten a lot less clear. It turns out, for
instance, that as Keyhoe was busy exhorting the U.S. government
to adopt a new open policy toward the American people, this same
government was orchestrating bloody coups in Iran and Guatemala,
knowingly exposing U.S. soldiers to sickening radiation in
nuclear tests, giving Canadian mental patients LSD to research
Chinese brainwashing techniques, and generally acting in a way
that showed little concern for the welfare of innocents and
American citizens, as well as a disdain for the value of an
informed electorate -- who, one imagines, might not have
approved of such practices had they known about them and so were
not told, for many decades.

In hindsight, it's ironic and wholly predictable that Keyhoe's
protest against government and military censorship was, in fact,
censored in Earth vs. the Flying Saucers. Instead, the film
seizes on and aggravates popular fear of invasion, shaping it
into a particular belief: of invasion as always imminent, now
and forevermore, regardless of any evident concrete threat. The
unnamed alien race in Earth vs. the Flying Saucers, after
desecrating its native solar system, has come to pillage Earth
and subjugate the planet's inhabitants, jealous as the aliens
are of our planet's marvelous liberty, its Elysian fields and
beaches. The narrator neatly summarizes these beliefs in the
opening scenes, outlining, in exquisite military lingo, the new
threat the saucers pose to our armed forces:

As a result [of the UFO sightings], headquarters of the
hemispheric defense command... issued an order: all military
installations are to fire on sight at any flying objects not
identified. But even as they do, the military wondered whether
their scientific know-how and their best weapons would be
effective in any battle of the Earth vs. the flying saucers.

This order from HQ does what the whole movie does, broadly
speaking: transform "enemy" as a concept, from societies,
nations or ethnicities who wish "us" harm or whose ideologies
differ from "ours" (however you wish, given the context, to
define "us"), to a consummately vague generality. HQ lacks any
specific knowledge of the aliens, but presumes them to be
hostile. This doesn't simply underscore HQ's nervous
bellicosity. The invaders from outer space, lacking any
discernible culture, could attack Earth for any reason: for our
resources or religions, the colors of our skin or the shapes of
our bodies. Because of this, detente with hypothetical enemies
is a lost cause. No peace is possible under such a hyper-
vigilant worldview. Only war, or its impending likelihood.

In this light, Earth vs. the Flying Saucers is instructive not
only (not even mainly) as a fantabulous parable about the fear
of invasion. Fifty years on, it still teaches that a subtler
form of invasion springs from the act of imagining and creating
enemies to defend against them. But looking back from a
privileged position 50 years into Earth vs.'s future, one is
struck not by how much the military of today resembles the
military of a 1956 movie. One is instead struck with how much
the military of today resembles Earth vs.'s alien menace.

Earth vs. the Flying Saucers is full of oddly clairvoyant
moments, prefiguring military misadventures that were the
faintest daydreams in those days around the Korean War. The
mouthpiece for the alien fleet describes the saucers' hovering,
quick lethality in terms that evoke the post-Cold War U.S. Army:
"Speed, maneuverability, and force," the disembodied alien voice
explains as a saucer drops down on a Navy ship, destroys it with
a death ray, and vanishes as quickly as it appeared. Harryhausen
talks in his biography about the thinking behind the saucer's
hovering design, which brings its speed, maneuverability, and
force convincingly to the screen. The saucers appear to float
aloft by spinning jerkily in place like a top, an effect
Harryhausen creates with independently movable plates on the
saucer models he used for the film. The effect is reminiscent of
the then-nascent invention, the helicopter -- an emerging
technology used in the frontless wars the U.S. was later to
fight so ruinously in Southeast Asia, Central America, and the
Persian Gulf. How unnerving that the U.S. military was
eventually to adopt the technologies and strategies once
imagined for its most abstract enemies.

Yet, the line between friend and foe has a way of blurring in
just this manner, time after time. In The Biology of Doom, for
instance, Ed Regis describes how the U.S./Canadian bioweapons
program -- begun in 1940 as a way of anticipating and keeping up
with hideous Japanese germ warfare research -- metastasized over
the years into the vast, uncontrolled bioweapons monstrosity
that is the source of so much nail-biting on CNN today. Among
the earliest innovations to this fledging U.S. program's credit:
a prototype of the weaponized anthrax so recently cooked up in
an army lab and mailed to the U.S. Capitol.

If the events of the last half century have largely discredited
hyper- vigilance as a pathway to peace and enlightenment, the
only glimmer of hope in Earth vs. the Flying Saucers -- given
its lamentable whitewash of Keyhoe's perspective on the UFO
phenomenon -- is an offhand moment when Carol, surrounded by
Army brass and scientists, tests an alien language translator by
reciting into it a Shakespearean couplet. The quote from The
Merchant of Venice is jarring amid Earth vs. the Flying Saucers'
keep- watching-the-skies ethos. But it gives the impression that
Carol offers more wisdom than Russell does for our current
predicament. If only she could find a way of translating the
couplet's meaning for the paranoid generals all around her.

But the recitation passes without further comment. The
translator promptly renders it as squawky gibberish and the
generals, unphased, continue plotting the planet's descent into
warfare. "The quality of mercy is not strained," are
Shakespeare's forgotten words. "It falls as the gentle rain from
heaven."

* * * *

[Many observations about Donald Keyhoe are adapted from Ronald
Story's The Encyclopedia of Extraterrestrial Encounters: A
Definitive, Illustrated A-Z Guide to All Things Alien (2001).]

Sources on the U.S. military's mistreatment of American
civilians include:

The Plutonium Files: America's Secret Medical Experiments in the
Cold War, by Eileen Welsome

Body of Secrets: Anatomy of the Ultra-Secret National Security
Agency, by James Bamford

Journey into Madness: The True Story of Secret CIA Mind Control
and Medical Abuse, by Gordon Thomas

"The Coldest Warrior," The Washington Post, Sunday, December 16,
2001, Page W09

Senate Hearings of 103d Congress, 2d Session - COMMITTEE PRINT -
  S. Prt. 103-97 (a transcript can be found at
www.gulfwarvets.com/senate.htm.)

_ 18 October 2002

**

=A9 1999-2002 PopMatters.com. All rights reserved. PopMatters.com=D6 and
PopMatters=D6 are trademarks of
PopMatters Media, Inc. and PopMatters Magazine.








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                    Smith Articles & Lecture Now On-Line

From: Grant Cameron <presidentialufo@presidency.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 23:43:37 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 10:56:22 -0400
Subject: Smith Articles & Lecture Now On-Line


During his short career of flying saucer research, Canadian
Director of Project Magnet, Wilbert Smith gave a number of
lectures and speeches.

The vast majority of these have now been put on line for all to
read. Included are articles about why the government classified
flying saucer research, who is flying the saucers, Project
Magnet, into scepticism, and numerous other topics.

For Wilbert Smith Lectures

http://presidentialufo.com/wilbert_smith_lectures.htm

For Wilbert Smith Articles

http://presidentialufo.com/wilbert_smith_articles.htm









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                      Tale Of Big Bird Catches Some Air

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 07:50:23 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 10:59:38 -0400
Subject: Tale Of Big Bird Catches Some Air


Hello all,

This is another category of UFO (Unidentified Feathered Object?)

My Gramma McCoy had a story of a big bird carrying away one of
the neighbor's large dogs in the blue ridge mountains of W.Va.
when she was a kid (1890's) - maybe it wasn't a tall tale.


GT McCoy

------

Source: Anchorage Daily News

http://www.adn.com/front/story/1962481p-2066841c.html

Top Alaska Stories


Southwest Alaskans see bird they say is Super Cub-sized
Skeptical biologists say people are probably reporting a Steller's sea eagle


Steller's sea eagle

By Peter Porco
Anchorage Daily News

(Published: October 15, 2002)

A giant winged creature, like something out of Jurassic Park,
has reportedly been sighted several times in Southwest Alaska in
recent weeks.

Villagers in Togiak and Manokotak say they have seen a huge bird
that's much bigger than anything they have seen before.

A Dillingham pilot says he spotted the creature while flying
passengers to Manokotak last week. He calculated that its
wingspan matched the length of a wing on his Cessna 207. That's
about 14 feet.

Other people have put the wingspan in a similar range.

Scientists aren't sure what to make of the reports. No one
doubts that people in the region west of Dillingham have seen a
very large raptorlike bird. But biologists and other people
familiar with big Alaska birds say they're skeptical it's that
big.

A recent sighting of the mystery bird occurred last Thursday
morning when Moses Coupchiak, a 43-year-old heavy equipment
operator from Togiak, 40 miles west of Manokotak, saw the bird
flying toward him from about two miles away as he worked his
tractor.

"At first I thought it was one of those old-time Otter planes,"
Coupchiak said. "Instead of continuing toward me, it banked to
the left, and that's when I noticed it wasn't a plane."

The bird was "something huge," he said. "The wing looks a little
wider than the Otter's, maybe as long as the Otter plane."

The bird flew behind a hill and disappeared. Coupchiak got on
the radio and warned people in Togiak to tell their children to
stay away.

Pilot John Bouker said he was highly skeptical of reports of
"this great big eagle" that is two or three times the size of a
bald eagle. "I didn't put any thought into it."

But early this week while flying into Manokotak, Bouker, owner
of Bristol Bay Air Service, looked out his left window and 1,000
feet away, "there's this big . . . bird," he said.

"The people in the plane all saw him," Bouker said. "He's huge,
he's huge, he's really, really big. You wouldn't want to have
your children out."

To Nicolai Alakayak, a freight and passenger driver from
Manokotak who was flying with Bouker, said the creature looked
like an eagle and was as large as "a little Super Cub."

Comparison to an eagle, certainly. Super Cub? Probably not,
scientists said.

"I'm certainly not aware of anything with a 14-foot wingspan
that's been alive for the last 100,000 years," said federal
raptor specialist Phil Schemf in Juneau.

Schemf, other biologists, a village police officer and teachers
at the Manokotak School said the sightings could be of a
Steller's sea eagle, a species native to northeast Asia and one
of the world's largest eagles. It's about 50 percent bigger than
a bald eagle.

The Steller's eagle has occasionally shown up in the Pribilof
Islands, on the Aleutian chain and on Kodiak.

A bird known to be a Steller's sea eagle has been spotted three
times since May and in August of last year, 40 miles up the
Nushagak River from Dillingham, according to Rob MacDonald of
the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.

Another Steller's eagle took up residence on the Taku River
south of Juneau for 10 summers starting in the late 1980s,
Schemf said.

The fish-eating Steller's sea eagle can weigh 20 pounds and have
a wingspan of up to 8 feet. It has a distinctive and impressive
appearance, Schemf said, with a pronounced yellow beak, a black
or dark brown body and large white shoulder patches.

"It's hard to mistake it for something else," he said. It's
clearly an eagle, though more "like a giant bald eagle."

People who observe animals "don't always have the sizes right,
but this is very different because the people in that area know
what eagles look like," said Karen Laing, also a federal
biologist.

"I don't know of any bird that's three times the size of an
eagle," Laing said. "What would that be? An ostrich? What bird
occurs here that would possibly be three times the size of an
eagle or the size of a Super Cub?"

Reporter Peter Porco can be reached at pporco@adn.com and at 907
257-4582.

-----

Steller's sea eagle:

http://www.adn.com/front/story/1962481p-2066866c.html

Steller's sea eagle


Southwest Alaskans see bird they say is Super Cub-sized



(Published: October 15, 2002)

Some biologist think the huge bird spotted in Southwest Alaska
could be a fairly rare Steller's sea eagle.

Habitat: Forests along coastline, large river valleys never far
from coast.

Range: Nests in Kamchatka and neighboring coast, winters in
Korea and Japan.

Description: Large dark brown and white bird weighing up to 20
pounds. Has a large, arched, yellow bill. Body has white
sholders and white, wedge-shaped tail.

Boby length: 42 to 45 inches

Wingspan: Up to 8 feet. A wandering albatross holds the record.
Its wings were actually measured at 11 feet, 11 inches.

Diet: Fish, carrion, invertebrates, sable, fox, young seals and
birds.

Life cycle: Adult birds often return to same nest or one nearby.
Nests are made of available material and can be 6 to 8 feet
across. A brood of one to three eggs is laid and incubated for
38 to 45 days. Chicks can fly in about 70 days.










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   Oct > Oct 19

              Re: Dave Furlotte's SDI 210 'Take On It' - White

From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net>
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 06:30:17 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 11:03:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Dave Furlotte's SDI 210 'Take On It' - White


 >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 11:22:18 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Dave Furlotte's SDI 210 'Take On It'

 >>From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 18:18:45 -0400
 >>Subject: Dave Furlotte's SDI 210 'Take On It'

 ><snip>

 >>First person reports of events, which are due the same respect
 >>as any witness in court until proven otherwise

 >Really? What is the penalty for cyber-perjury? :-)

<snip>

First person reports are _due_ the same respect. That's not
saying they _get_ the due respect from the public and
authorities, who get their prejudice reinforced every time an
article appears with the "little green men" phrase.


Eleanor White








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             Hole In Larry Hatch's Back Yard Defies Explanation

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 04:39:40 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 11:07:54 -0400
Subject: Hole In Larry Hatch's Back Yard Defies Explanation


 >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 16:49:17 +0200
 >Subject: Michigan Crop Circles 'Defy Explanation'

 >Source: The Saginaw News via MichiganLive

 >http://www.mlive.com/news/sanews/index.ssf?/xml/story.ssf/html_standard.xsl?/b
ase/news-3/1034347823191890.xml

 >Stig

 >***

Hello Stig, list:

I have a very suburban little property in Redwood City, CA., in
fact I grew up here. I know every little plant and tree.

What is new is a hole in the ground, about 2 feet or 60 cm away
from a new lemon tree I planted some years back. The hole is
only about 2 inches (50mm) in diameter or so, and it turns away
from the vertical so I cannot see much more than 3 or 4 inches
down.

My first thought was ground critters, but there was no expelled
dirt around it as one might expect from ground rodent diggings.

I tried to fill it with water, but it never fills up at all! Its
like a bottomless pit of narrow dimensions.

There is a section of ground, just to one side of this hole,
perhaps 15 inches in diameter, which seems to have sunken below
the general terrain by an inch or two. It is almost as
"thirsty", even though I keep the lemon tree watered.

Gophers, moles etc. are virtually unknown here for some reason.
I haven't seen evidence of either in 50+ years, and yes I know
how they tend to hide.

I know this is way off-topic, but any clues would be
appreciated.

One alternative, might be to put a small explosive charge down
the hole with a remote detonator , covered by loose bricks or
whatever, and see if the creatures are friendly or not. If there
is another connected opening, it might suddenly become apparent.
[burp!]

Hopefully, somebody has a better suggestion.


Please respond on or off list.

Best wishes

- Larry Hatch

= = = = =








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   Oct > Oct 19

                Re: Richard Brunwick Photocollection - Rivera

From: Jean-Luc Rivera <JLRIV1@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 10:27:31 EDT
Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 11:09:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Richard Brunwick Photocollection - Rivera


 >From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos@yahoo.es>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 00:06:20 +0200 (CEST)
 >Subject: Richard Brunwick Photocollection

<snip>

 >Probably this has already been discussed here, sorry in this
 >case for being redundant. I'd appreciate your assessment of the
 >book's content as well as your opinion of the author's research,
 >as I am pondering whether or not I should include this fancy
 >(mostly blurred) set of photos into a serious catalog of UFO/IFO
 >photography. Fakes by the author, real ones, a mixture of both?

 >Anyone know?

I purchased that book a couple of years ago and tried to find
out who the author is, to no avail. The French case being
totally unknown as well as the others. My opinion is that it is
an excellent hoax book, with all fake pictures.


Best,

Jean-Luc Rivera








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              Boeing Unveils Bird of Prey Stealth Demonstrator

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 11:15:19 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 11:15:19 -0400
Subject: Boeing Unveils Bird of Prey Stealth Demonstrator

http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2002/q4/nr_021018m.html

Boeing Unveils Bird of Prey Stealth Technology Demonstrator

10-18-02

St. Louis, October 18, 2002  - Boeing [NYSE: BA] today unveiled
the "Bird of Prey," a technology demonstrator that pioneered
breakthrough low-observable technologies and revolutionized
aircraft design, development and production. The once highly
classified project ran from 1992 through 1999, and was revealed
because the technologies and capabilities developed have become
industry standards, and it is no longer necessary to conceal the
aircraft's existence.

In addition to proving many new stealth concepts, the Bird of
Prey program demonstrated innovative rapid prototyping
techniques. Developed by the Boeing Phantom Works advanced
research-and-development organization, the Bird of Prey was
among the first to initiate the use of large, single-piece
composite structures; low-cost, disposable tooling; and 3-D
virtual reality design and assembly processes to ensure the
aircraft was affordable to build as well as high-performing.

Fully funded by Boeing, the Bird of Prey project costs $67
million. A subsonic, single-seat technology demonstrator, the
aircraft completed 38 test flights as part of its flight-
demonstration program. Its first flight took place in fall 1996.
Bird of Prey has a wingspan of approximately 23 feet and a
length of 47 feet, and weighs nearly 7,400 pounds. Powered by a
Pratt & Whitney JT15D-5C turbofan engine, the Bird of Prey has
an operational speed of 260 knots and a maximum operating
altitude of 20,000 feet.

"Early investments in technology demonstration projects such as
Bird of Prey have positioned Boeing to help shape our industry's
transformation," said Jim Albaugh, president and CEO of Boeing
Integrated Defense Systems. "With this aircraft, we changed the
rules on how to design and build an aircraft, and what we've
learned is enabling us to provide our customers with affordable,
high-performing products. Projects such as Bird of Prey have
provided the catalyst for integrating speed, agility and reduced
cost into the processes we employ to introduce new commercial
and military systems to market."

Boeing's current development of the X-45A Unmanned Combat Air
Vehicle, or UCAV, technology demonstrator draws directly on its
Bird of Prey experience. Some aspects of the UCAV's innovative
radar-evading design, such as its shape and inlet, were
developed from this project. Together, Boeing Phantom Works and
Boeing Integrated Defense Systems are developing UCAV for the
Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, or DARPA, and the
U.S. Air Force.

"The success of the Bird of Prey is a testament to the shared
commitment of Boeing and the Air Force to pioneering innovative
methods to drive down costs and improve performance," said
George Muellner, senior vice president of Air Force Systems for
Boeing Integrated Defense Systems. "This project stressed
affordability as much as performance and quality, and is one of
many that we are using to define the future of aerospace."

The Boeing Company is the world's largest manufacturer of
satellites, commercial jetliners and military aircraft. In terms
of sales, Boeing is the largest exporter in the United States.
Total company revenues for 2001 were $58 billion. A unit of The
Boeing Company, Boeing Integrated Defense Systems is one of the
world's largest space and defense businesses. Headquartered in
St. Louis, Boeing Integrated Defense Systems is a $23 billion
business. It provides systems solutions to its global military,
government and commercial customers. Boeing Phantom Works is the
catalyst of innovation within the company. By working with the
company's business units, it provides advanced solutions and
innovative, breakthrough technologies that reduce cycle time and
cost while improving the quality and performance of aerospace
products and services.

###







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                          Teach Your Children Well

From: John <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 02:34:04 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 11:17:06 -0400
Subject: Teach Your Children Well


Hello All,

I borrowed a line from a Crosby, Stills & Nash tune for the
title because apparently one of our major television networks is
actively educating our kids about aliens and UFOs.

http://abcnews.go.com/abcnews4kids/kids/

Click on the alien head image and follow the little 'primer'
they have created. I found the selection of 'sightings' feature
interesting in that they span many centuries. I'm very
interested to hear what others think of this unusual but
interesting web presentation by ABC News 4 Kids.

Are our children being 'conditioned' for disclosure or eventual
contact? I'd like to know what thoughts/impressions some of you
may have after perusing this site. I'd especially enjoy hearing
the impressions of experienced educators like Victor Vigianni
and others.

Food for thought.


Regards to all,

John Velez

Sign the International Petition to the United Nations
for disclosure of information pertaining to UFOs.

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition








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                      SDI, CUFOS, Hynek & Muhammad Ali

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 19:37:05 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 19:37:05 -0400
Subject: SDI, CUFOS, Hynek & Muhammad Ali


In in the course of putting tonight's Strange Days... Indeed' and
its topic, 'The CUFOS Crisis' with guests Richard Hall, Jerome
Clark, Dr. Mark Rodeghier and Mark Chesney, I happened to talk
with former military-pugilist and contributor to SDI - Mike Woods.

Mike being the skillful and observant type mailed me the following
for use in the program tonight. I thought you might like to see
it in case you happen to miss tonight's program via

http://www.cfrb.com

at 23:00 Eastern.

ebk

_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/


From: Michael Woods <mike.woods@rogers.com>
To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 0:23:35 -0400
Subject: CUFOS, Hynek & Muhammad Ali


CUFOS, Hynek & Muhammad Ali

In the midst of all the usual Ufology turmoil comes word CUFOS
is almost broke and may have to close its doors. If you haven't
already heard one, consider this an appeal to help the
organization. It will cost you about one cup of coffee a day for
a month to get a year's subscription to the CUFOS newsletter.
You might consider paying a couple of years in advance. CUFOS
remains the very bedrock of serious North American UFO research
and it's founder, the late Dr. J. Allen Hynek, Ufology's single
most important researcher.

It's appropriate we're being asked to honor Hynek by saving his
organization this weekend. Here in Toronto, tomorrow, we'll
honor the single most important athlete of the century -
heavyweight champion Muhammad Ali.

On the surface, there wouldn't seem to be a lot of similarities
between the will-of-the-wisp world of Ufology and the broken-
nose reality of boxing - but bear with me. Consider this: He was
at the pinnacle of his profession, respected by the
establishment and widely sought because of his abilities. But
when he could no longer cope with the orthodox views, he broke
away. He worked for his beliefs, as un-popular as they were, and
it cost him the best part of his career, the respect of his
colleagues and left him an outcast.

No, I'm not talking about Ali's famous fight with the U.S.
government over being drafted to fight in Vietnam, it's the
story of Dr. J. Allen Hynek, astronomy professor and government
consultant on three Air Force UFO studies who could no longer
whitewash the sightings, and despite the ridicule and financial
and personal pressures, established CUFOS, which he headed until
his death. CUFOS remains the standard for scientific research
into this most elusive subject.

Muhammad Ali deserves the outpouring of love he'll receive at
tomorrow's Toronto Argonauts Canadian football game - for his
strength in his beliefs in the 60's over the war, the dignified
life in support of his Muslim beliefs he's lived since, and the
courage, so familiar to boxing fans, now displayed in his
struggle with Parkinson's.

Dr. J. Allen Hynek deserves the same kinds of honors_ but unlike
tomorrow and Ali, it's too late to pay the Doctor the respect
he's due directly.

So skip a Starbucks a day for a month, contact CUFOS and pay for
a couple years worth of newsletters. If you have any interest in
UFOs, consider it an investment in the serious search for
answers.

And head down to the Argos game tomorrow to pay your respects to
one of the very few men of principles. The 'Greatest's' time on
earth, like fame and UFOs, is fleeting.


Michael J. Woods







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                 Re: Hole In Larry Hatch's Back Yard Defies

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 12:17:52 -0300
Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 10:54:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Hole In Larry Hatch's Back Yard Defies


 >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 04:39:40 -0700
 >Subject: Hole In Larry Hatch's Back Yard Defies Explanation

<snip>

 >Hello Stig, list:

 >I have a very suburban little property in Redwood City, CA., in
 >fact I grew up here. I know every little plant and tree.

 >What is new is a hole in the ground, about 2 feet or 60 cm away
 >from a new lemon tree I planted some years back. The hole is
 >only about 2 inches (50mm) in diameter or so, and it turns away
 >from the vertical so I cannot see much more than 3 or 4 inches
 >down.

 >My first thought was ground critters, but there was no expelled
 >dirt around it as one might expect from ground rodent diggings.

 >I tried to fill it with water, but it never fills up at all! Its
 >like a bottomless pit of narrow dimensions.

 >There is a section of ground, just to one side of this hole,
 >perhaps 15 inches in diameter, which seems to have sunken below
 >the general terrain by an inch or two. It is almost as
 >"thirsty", even though I keep the lemon tree watered.

 >Gophers, moles etc. are virtually unknown here for some reason.
 >I haven't seen evidence of either in 50+ years, and yes I know
 >how they tend to hide.

 >I know this is way off-topic, but any clues would be
 >appreciated.

 >One alternative, might be to put a small explosive charge down
 >the hole with a remote detonator , covered by loose bricks or
 >whatever, and see if the creatures are friendly or not. If there
 >is another connected opening, it might suddenly become apparent.
 >[burp!]

 >Hopefully, somebody has a better suggestion.

 >Please respond on or off list.
h

Hi Larry,

You have obviously tapped into the air vent for the municipal
water supply - explaining why the hole never fills with water.
Water incidentally is one of the main ingredients in beer.

Don Ledger








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                         Re: UFOs And... - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 11:46:49 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 10:58:08 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs And... - Maccabee


 >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 10:47:35 -0700
 >Subject: Re: UFOs And...


 >>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 23:34:36 -0700
 >>Subject: Re: UFOs And...

 >>Just out of curiosity, why does it seem like _every_ strange or
 >>out-of-the-ordinary occurence is almost _automatically_
 >>accompanied by reports of UFOS?

 >Below are four examples of testimony that connects UFO with the
 >sighting of angel hair. I could cite many more with the same
 >flavor and common characteristics. Do you need more evidence?
 >Let's try to explain this phenomena, not explain it away.

 >3) October 1953 Victoria

 >"In recent years only a few UFO reports refer to a filamentous
 >substance "angel's hair", having been seen falling from the sky
 >after a flying saucer had passed over. In the case below, the
 >second in Australia but only now reported to UFOIC, it is
 >believed that the same substance is involved. In the earliest
 >report of October 1953, over Victoria a sample was recovered and
 >made available for laboratory analysis. The examination revealed
t>hat the substance consisted of a nylon-like amorphous mass with
 >traces of magnesium, calcium, boron and silicon. Since then the
 >original material, which was kept in an air-tight container
 >shrank from three to a mere half inch without residue."

 >(A photograph of the remaining sample was shown.) (1) Source:
 >(1) Australian Flying Saucer Review (NSW) No. 9 p12

 >October 1955 Port Augusta South Australia (32.30S 137.46E)

 >5 August 1961 0820hrs 55mins Mt Hale Station Western
 >Australia (26.03S 117.15E)

 >"Twelve round flying objects, moving fast in pairs, were sighted
 >on August 6th, 1961, by ten independent witnesses near
 >Meekatharra. They left a white trail of "streamers" which
 >crumbled and disappeared when picked up by startled watchers at
 >Mt Hale station, seventy-five miles west of Meekatharra. The
 >silvery, round objects passed over the station at regular
i>ntervals between 8.20 and 9.15 am.

<snip>

Note the descriptions of the substance "disappearing". This has
been a characteristic of "angel hair" that sets it apart from
spider silk, etc., which is stable in the atmosphere
(fortunately for the spiders, tent caterpillars, etc.)

Craig Phillips, long a member of the Fund for UFO Research, told
a similar story which, I believe involved a flyover of a UFO in
Florida sometime back in the 50's when he was working at the
aquarium there. He said material fell and he picked up some put
it into a jar and sealed the jar. Some time (days? weeks?) later
he looked in the jar and it was (appeared to be) empty. One may
presume that had be been part of a well funded scientific
operation he would have had the gas in the jar analyzed.

Perhaps Richard Hall can comment on this further. It had been
years since I heard Craig tell his story.

Bottom line: angel hair "disappears" (evaporates)... spider
silk... ummmm.... 'sticks around'.








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                 Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 11:46:52 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 11:02:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Maccabee


 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto)
 >Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:30:15 EDT
 >Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs?

 >>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 23:54:54 -0300
 >>Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs?

 >>>I put up a website some time ago on cases involving injury and
 >>>death. The front page is located at:

 >>>http://www.geocities.com/area51/rampart/2653/sixthkind.html

<snip>

 >>One of the most obvious, I would suggest, is the Valentich case.


 >Which could have been a hoax. In any case, who has proven what
 >happened, and its cause?

Hoax? One thing is certain, Valentich has not returned, lo these
many years. I met his father back in January, 1979, over two
months after Valentich's disappearance. The search for "Hoax"
was continuing at the time, with the assumption that perhaps
Valentich had flown his plane somewhere other than where he said
he was going, as part of a drug running operation. However, years
of searching have produced nothing... no wreckage in the Bass
Strait and no wreckage anywhere else.

Certainly the transcript from the Melbourne Air Traffic Control
Center was not a hoax. Valentich's father was allowed to hear
the tape and verify his son's voice and the accuracy of the
transcript. About 10 (?) years ago Dr. Richard Haines wrote a
book on his investigation. I think the title is 'Melbourne
Incident'. (Been a long time since I read the book.) It provides
info that should be available to anyone who thinks this "could
have been a hoax".

At any rate, whatever happened apparently took Valentich's life
(unless he is still alive... 'elsewhere...')








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              Re: Richard Brunwick Photocollection - Ballester

From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos@yahoo.es>
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 19:18:56 +0200 (CEST)
Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 11:05:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Richard Brunwick Photocollection - Ballester


 >From: Jean-Luc Rivera <JLRIV1@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 10:27:31 EDT
 >Subject: Re: Richard Brunwick Photocollection

 >>From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos@yahoo.es>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 00:06:20 +0200 (CEST)
 >>Subject: Richard Brunwick Photocollection

 ><snip>

 >>Probably this has already been discussed here, sorry in this
 >>case for being redundant. I'd appreciate your assessment of the
 >>book's content as well as your opinion of the author's research,
 >>as I am pondering whether or not I should include this fancy
 >>(mostly blurred) set of photos into a serious catalog of UFO/IFO
 >>photography. Fakes by the author, real ones, a mixture of both?

 >>Anyone know?

 >I purchased that book a couple of years ago and tried to find
 >out who the author is, to no avail. The French case being
 >totally unknown as well as the others. My opinion is that it is
 >an excellent hoax book, with all fake pictures.


J-L,

Yes, it seems so. On another List, Class Svahn from Sweden and
Maurizio Verga from Italy informed that it is just a collection
of faked photographs. Question is whether we should catalog them
as IFO cases or just take them as a form of (UFO) art? Perhaps
the second.

Best regards,

V-J







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               Re: Richard Brunwick Photocollection - Mancusi

From: Bruno Mancusi <swissufo@swissufo.ch>
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 20:09:05 +0200
Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 11:08:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Richard Brunwick Photocollection - Mancusi


 >From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos@yahoo.es>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 00:06:20 +0200 (CEST)
 >Subject: Richard Brunwick Photocollection

 >Hello List members, the other day I happened to Amazon-purchase
 >a copy of the 1999 German published book entitled 'UFO Richard
 >Brunwick Photocollection', which contains a strange assortment
 >of 300 unknown, so-called, UFO photographs.


 >Probably this has already been discussed here, sorry in this
 >case for being redundant. I'd appreciate your assessment of the
 >book's content as well as your opinion of the author's research,
 >as I am pondering whether or not I should include this fancy
 >(mostly blurred) set of photos into a serious catalog of UFO/IFO
 >photography. Fakes by the author, real ones, a mixture of both?

I purchased the book from Arcturus. Bob Girard wrote in his
Catalogue 2000-10:

"Unfortunately for UFO research, the book is a put-on (or
perhaps better said, a paste-up), a product of the new
computerized technology which allows anyone the opportunity to
generate or alter photographic imagery. The photos are all
fakes, every last blue-eyed one of them, sometimes including
faked fuzzes or hairs to induce credibility (just like the
famous newsreel in 'Citizen Kane' showed special-effect graining
and lines to create the impression of ancient film footage). One
supposes it is now so easy and fast to whip up 300 such images,
that there is enough money to be made from saucer suckers to
justify publication of the book, and surely, of many more such
books to come."

I don't know where Girard got this information from.


Regards

Bruno








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                            Re: Gleason - Cameron

From: Grant Cameron <presidentialufo@presidency.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 14:53:06 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 11:13:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Gleason - Cameron


 >From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 11:07:32 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Gleason

<snip>

 >Presidents aren't nearly as free as we might imagine. Nixon
 >couldn't simply go by himself to bring his buddy to see the
 >alien bodies, or whatever he's supposed to have done. The Secret
 >Service would have to go along. Whoever carried the nuclear
 >"football" - the device that allows the president to authorize
 >the use of nuclear weapons, should that be necessary - would
 >have to go, since this person never leaves the president's
 >immediate vicinity. The military base where the bodies allegedly
 >were would have to be notified. A visit from the president is
 >one of the biggest events that could happen on the base. The
 >base commander would have to be notified. Plans would have to be
 >made. Any movement the president makes has to involve an
 >astonishing number of people, and the arrangements have to be
 >made by staff aides, whose chief can effectively delay, hamper,
 >or even forbid some of the things the president wants to do.

 >High officials tend to be very effective bureaucratic
 >infighters. The commander of the base where the alien bodies
 >supposedly were might not have liked the idea of the president
 >bringing a civilian in, and could oppose it, both overtly and by
 >sheer stubborn inaction. The president could argue with his
 >aides (including such high-ranking people as the national
 >security advisor, who might also be appalled by something like
 >the Gleason visit). The aides will argue back. The president
 >can't turn everything into a confrontation. Like anyone in a
 >bureaucratic situation, even the top people, he or she depends
 >on good working relations with subordinates. Only rarely can a
 >president, or any CEO, simply order something to be done when
 >most or all of other top officials are against it.

There are also stories of Bill and Hillary Clinton escaping
Secret Service protection.

 From Gary Aldrich's 'Unlimited Access' p.90 (perhaps not the
best source) there is confirmation that some white House
residents like Nixon did not enjoy the constant Secret Service
protection.


"Another close source, this one in the Secret Service, told me
that Hillary ordered her Secret Service protection detail to
"stay the f--k away from me!" and to keep at least ten yards of
distance between her and them at all times.

The Secret Service agent told me that it was much harder to
protect her from a distance of ten yards, and that she was told
this, but she didn't seem to care what the Secret Service said.
He told me that it was obvious that she had a clear dislike for
the agents, bordering on hatred, in his opinion.

Along those same lines, another source reports that two Secret
Service agents heard Hillary's daughter Chelsea refer to them as
"personal trained pigs" to some of her friends. When the friends
had gone, the senior agent on detail tried to scold Chelsea for
such disrespect. He told her that he was willing to put his life
on the line to save hers, and he believed that her father would
be shocked if he heard what she had just said to her friends.
Chelsea's response?

"I don't think so. That's what my parents call you."


The rumor about Bill was that he was able to escape the White
House for meetings with various women at a hotel close to the
White House. The same stories circulated about Kennedy decades
earlier.









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                  CI: Featured Essay 'Skeptics, Debunkers &

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 15:22:56 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 11:17:41 -0400
Subject: CI: Featured Essay 'Skeptics, Debunkers &


10-19-02
CI Featured Essay: Skeptics, Debunkers and Believers
by Mac Tonnies

http://mactonnies.com/cydonia.html


Students of ufology and extraterrestrial archaeology are
constantly confronted with three terms that quietly challenge
assumptions of reality: "skeptic," "debunker" and "believer." In
the storm of claims, hypotheses and accusations that define
esoteric research, these labels are routinely misused. I'd like
to take this opportunity to look a bit closer at these
emotionally charged words in order to see what they really mean,
and how they sculpt the epistemological landscape. (I suspect
that most readers versed in "forbidden science" secretly know
all of this already, but the public arena incessantly distorts
definitions to suit its own politics; consequently, one rarely
sees "skeptic," "debunker" or "believer" used in proper
context.)

1.) Skeptics

Skeptics are thinkers. Skeptics evaluate evidence, realizing
that there is no absolute plane of reference on which to cling.
Skeptics neither debunk nor believe--unless they are able to
establish that a given phenomenon deserves to be debunked.
"Belief" is not a luxury the true skeptic can afford; the
mechanics of skeptical thought are rooted in probability and
open-mindedness. Being a skeptic requires courage and
intellectual flexibility. What looks like a neat idea may turn
out to be unsubstantiated nonsense; conversely, it might be the
real thing.

2.) Debunkers

Debunkers comprise the most virulent of contemporary self-
described "skeptics." There is nothing inherently unsound about
debunking, contrary to the many appeals on behalf of the "pro"
side of a given paranormal controversy. But in order to debunk,
the subject being debunked must be bunk. Valid, substantiated
evidence cannot be debunked until new evidence supplants or
alters it.

The term "debunker" is often taken as a negative word, perhaps
best personified by orangutan scientist-theologian Dr. Zaius in
"Planet of the Apes." But there's nothing wrong with being a
debunker as long as the debunker can back up his or her claims.
Of course, this doesn't mean that some commentators won't abuse
the urge to debunk--usually in the name of "skepticism." For
example, astronomer Donald Menzel "debunked" countless UFO
sightings based on his scientifically baseless a priori
conviction that there were no UFOs. Veteran ufologist Philip
Klass continues in Menzel's role, correctly debunking many
spurious UFO reports but erroneously "debunking" others. This is
inevitable, as Klass' self-stated maxim is that all UFO reports
can be attributed to prosaic causes. His personal bias manifests
again and again in his proclamations, and one wonders what
genuine contributions he would provide if he parted ways with
the sloppy (if intellectually fashionable) debunking community
to pursue uncorrupted skepticism.

3.) Believers

Along with faux-debunkers, believers are the most significant
fetter to open-minded inquiry. Believers have no pressing need
for facts; a few vague correlations or anonymous "insider"
remarks will suffice. Believers typically revolve around the
notion that great shifts in scientific thought are usually
initiated by lone eccentrics whose genius is often recognized
only posthumously. Thus, their being branded as "cranks" by the
mainstream is flaunted as a badge of honor, as if identifying
them as architects of the Next Great Paradigm.

While genuine pioneers are indeed often derided in their time
(i.e., Galileo, Darwin), this is no promise that today's
"crackpot" theory will be vindicated. However, this doesn't
phase believers. Nothing phases believers. True believers will
weave contradictory evidence into their own models of reality,
rationalizing it with painfully arcane philosophical acrobatics.
(Try wrapping your mind around the schizophrenic cosmos
conceived by Christian Fundamentalists and "Creation
Scientists.")

We should all strive to be skeptics. But that means taking a
hard look at the "principles" of skepticism as relayed by the
mainstream skeptical community (whose output is as flawed by
what it doesn't present as believer-oriented media is flawed by
its excessiveness).

I consider Carl Sagan one of the century's true heroes. But at
times his reductionist approach (as sublime as it was) betrayed
an unsettling condescension: his arguments against the
extraterrestrial hypothesis for UFOs was lazy and hopelessly
anthrocentric; he dismissed evidence of alien architecture on
Mars in a flippant magazine "hit piece" so unlike the
passionate, reasoned perspectives in his books. He also coined
the single-most pseudo-intellectual sound-bite to grace the
pages of the "Skeptical Inquirer": "Extraordinary claims require
extraordinary evidence."

As researcher Daniel Drasin aptly notes in "Zen and the Art of
Debunkery," "extraordinary" is an essentially emotional word,
not any sort of qualitative objective standard. This allows the
would-be debunker to define "extraordinary" at her whim,
establishing a forever out-of-reach "evidential horizon" that no
amount of evidence can hope to surpass.

"Skepticism" is not merely the focus of semantic confusion. Its
implications are exceedingly political. Cults, governments,
advertisers, religions, schools, and the news media have an
abiding interest in infecting you with their beliefs. If you're
not vigilantly skeptical, it's all too easy to succumb. The
moment you do, you trap yourself in a given "reality tunnel" (to
borrow a term from skeptic extraordinaire Robert Anton Wilson).

The Earth of the early 21st century is a deceiving, perilous
place, and we may ultimately pay for the luxury of our zealously
guarded tunnel realities with our own extinction. Wrench your
mind out of its routines. Eviscerate your most cherished
notions, leaving "belief" severed and twitching on the
dissection tray where it belongs. And the invisible fog begins
to part; the idiot chatter of our collective human television
channel (all ads, all day) fades to a whisper somewhere in the
distance.

-end-









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                                 SETI@homeII

From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 00:53:27 +0200
Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 11:19:08 -0400
Subject: SETI@homeII


Hi Folks,

Just think,

SETI@home I + $1.00 from each PC subscriber = SETI@home II from
the Parks facility. I don't know how much they need so lets make
it $1.00 minimum. We'll never hear alien music from the southern
hemisphere unless we listen.


Ponder this,

I have a standing arrangement with SETI that if they ever hear a
Mozart or Beatles from another Galaxy they are to immediately
telephone me (on the red NORAD phone) and I will execute a SETI
approved production and management contract. Because 200 years
is too much time for them to sign, I will do it for them if they
are stuck with those ancient only light speed saucers. Even if
the alien artists remain on their galaxy I can produce a
masterpiece novelty album. If they communicate through pulsed
lasers I can transform any pattern into electronic space
music.If they can get here quickly just think what live
audiences we can draw on this galaxy alone :>)

Somehow the announcement of "The Alien Abduction Game" on the
SCI-FI.com does not make me feel good. I'd like to know what
fellow Listerions think regarding SCI-FI.com's approach. John
Velez, I'd like especially to hear from you on this matter.

If you are an author please make sure you have plenty of stuff
on the bookshelves when "Taken" begins its run. There may be a
flood of new folks desirous of answers. Some of those people
will want to study the subject more seriously and stick with it,
possibly adding new good people to our field.

Josh










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                  Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 23:41:29 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 11:26:25 -0400
Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Hatch


 >From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 05:11:54 +0200
 >Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs?

 >>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 22:56:21 -0700
 >>Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs?

 >>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 14:38:29 +0000
 >>>Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs?

 ><snip>

 >>>Oddly enough I remember that case. We (at NICAP) carried a
 >>>report on it in The U.F.O. Investigator.

 >>Yes, Dick remembers correctly. It was in Vol.2 #3 of the
 >>NICAP Ufo Investigator, Kehoe's Aliens from Space book,
 >>page 71, and others which probably followed later.

 >>I have it listed briefly as:

 >>#6324: 1961/10/6 2300h 10 72:13W 9:55N SAM VNZ MAR
 >>SANTA RITA,VNZ: LRG UFO >S OVR LAKE:FISHERMEN DIVE:1 DROWNS:
 >>/r47p71+/APRO 9'61
 >>Ref# 24 NICAP: UFO INVESTIGATOR Volume 2 Issue 3

 >>Perhaps the drowning resulted from panic, rather than some
 >>direct effects from the UFO. I'd like a good description of the
 >>'UFO' BTW, for all I knew it was a fireball.

<snip>

 >>In contrast, there is one case of a man partially blinded by a
 >>beam shot at his head in the Florida Everglades by a saucer like
 >>craft as I recall. The shot seemed intentional, even if the
 >>human injury was not.

<snip>

 >Hi Larry,

 >In the attic of my mind I vaguely remember a case about that man
 >who was partially blinded. I don't think I have anything in my
 >files, but I'll take a look. Can you post what information you
 >have here?


Hello Josh:

Your attic is probably like mine.

I have the Florida case listed as:

#6881: 1965/3/15 0100h 81:25W 26:25N NAM USA FLR
nr IMMOKALEE,FL:25M SCR ZAPS OBS:EYE DAMAGE:BURNT GRASS:
/r176p223+/r210v13#6  -and-
/r24 NICAP: UFO INVESTIGATOR Volume 3 Issue 1 WETLANDS

/r 176 is Leonard Stringfields book: Situation Red.
/r 210 is the APRO Bulletin.

Stringfield is easiest at hand, the others require digging thru
my messy stacks.

There I noted a possible 3rd source: Jim / Coral Lorenzen's
book: Startling Evidence, on page 229.

Per Stringfield, one James Flynn went out hunting and camping
into the Florida Everglades with his dogs, on a swamp-buggy
vehicle. First he saw a light hovering a mile away over some
cypress trees, and navigated closer to investigate. Thru
binoculars, he saw a 60 foot diameter shallow cone shape, 3 feet
tall, with 3 rows of square windows.  The windows reflected
(passed?) a yellowish light.

The time was 0100 hours, object was visible mainly due to its
dull reddish glow, mainly underneath, which was strong enough to
indicate a metallic surface on the UFO.

The dogs wanted to get away from there, but Flynn went closer,
got within a few yards of the UFO and shut down his lights and
motor.  He walked right up to the object, raised one arm and
waved, hoping to signal any pilots I suppose.

Instantly, a beam shot out from beneath the rows of windows and
hit him on the forehead.  He awoke a day later (it turns out)
and sought medical attention because he couldn't see from one
eye, and vision was damaged in the other.

Before he left, he noted a burnt circle of grass and singed
treetops at the site.  Researchers found the same when Flynn led
them to to scene.  His vision had a slow and incomplete recovery
afterward if I recall correctly from the other sources.

There was no mistaking the injury, one eye was clouded by a
hemorrhage in the anterior chamber.

Who would go that far to perpetrate a hoax? It would require
something like a laser.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch










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                        UFO Interest On The Internet

From: Larry Hatch <larry@LARRYHATCH.NET>
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 00:18:46 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 11:30:37 -0400
Subject: UFO Interest On The Internet


Hello:


Like most of us, I presumed that UFOs are one of the busiest
topics on the internet. There are countless UFO websites, any
number of email discussion groups like (or unlike) this one etc,
My single website sees 50-100 visits per day, sometimes a lot
more.

A service in the UK indicates otherwise however!

Word tracker emails me lists every week. These track the
frequencies of Search Engine search words two ways. The first
list is the top 500 terms people searched for in the previous
week, the second one has all-time rankings since the service
began a few years back.

Neither list shows UFO, or any variation of that, at all!

Here's the top 20 from last week:

Rank      Hits          Search word(s)

1         1006          google
2         983           jokes
3         972           yahoo
4         832           health
5         753           ebay
6         728           hotmail
7         694           yahoo.com
8         636           halloween costumes
9         606           lyrics
10        597           Pictures
11        593           dictionary
12        562           hotmail.com
13        548           maps
14        541           games
15        506           mapquest
16        486           weather
17        449           www.yahoo.com
18        442           halloween
19        435           music
20        433           song lyrics


It goes on like that. I see the names of search engines a lot,
maps, web services, topical stuff, odd and unfamiliar things
like "kazaa, clipart, snes roms, quitar tabs(?), lingerie .. "
but nowhere is the word UFO to be found!


Here's the URL for the service:

http://www.wordtracker.com/reviews/webposition.html


Frankly I'm surprised.

- Larry






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                           Mothman Visits Alaska?

From: David  Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 10:33:04 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 11:31:58 -0400
Subject: Mothman Visits Alaska?


Source: The Guardian - UK

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,815050,00.html

The Guardian (London), 19 October 2002

First it was bigfoot, now it's big bird

Oliver Burkeman in New York

It may be a bird. It almost certainly isn't a plane. All that is
known for sure is that several people have reported seeing an
enormous creature with a 4-metre wingspan flying over south-west
Alaska in recent days. Those who saw it are urging children to
stay indoors.

"At first I thought it was one of those old-time Otter planes,"
Moses Coupchiak, 43, from Togiak, 400 miles from Anchorage, told
the Anchorage Daily News.

When it disappeared over the crest of a hill he immediately
radioed other Togiak residents to tell them not to let their
children play outside.

John Bouker said he saw "the bird" shortly afterwards about 300
metres away from the plane he was flying.

"The people in the plane saw him. He's huge. He's huge. He's
really, really big," he said. "You wouldn't want to have your
children out."

Phil Schemf, a federal specialist in the Alaskan capital,
Juneau, told the News he was sceptical. "I'm certainly not aware
of anything with a 14ft wingspan that's been alive for the past
100,000 years."

The closest he could come was a Steller's Eagle, which has an
8ft (about 2.5 metres) wingspan, and has been seen several times
recently, according to the US fish and wildlife service.








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                          Re: CUFOS Crisis - Rimmer

From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 14:56:03 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 11:34:53 -0400
Subject: Re: CUFOS Crisis - Rimmer


 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >To: <UFOupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: CUFOS Crisis
 >Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 12:12:04 -0500

 >>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 22:55:01 +0100
 >>Subject: Re: CUFOS Crisis

 >>I find it very strange that CUFOS should be in such a financial
 >>crisis when its journal IUR enjoys the inestimable advantage of
 >>being published in the world's second most understood language
 >>after Chinese - English.

 >CUFOS has other expenses besides magazine production, John. We
 >keep those expenses as low as possible, and only one person - a
 >part-time office manager who has steadily reduced her hours over
 >the yeras - is getting paid. CUFOS' office and archive is
 >hardly fancy, but you can't rent anything cheap in Chicago.

I think such expenses are common to the European organisations I
mentioned as well. I'm sure rents aren't cheap in Chicago (any
more than they are in London, Rome or Paris) so why do the
offices need to be there? Are there many personal visitors to
the office? Is there no smaller regional centre they could move
to?

 >The sad truth may be that even among people who claim to be
 >interested in UFOs, the market for a conservative,
 >intellectually serious approach is at best a niche one,
 >involving no more than a few hundred people, plus some casually
 >curious outsiders. At CUFOS we have devoted hundreds, probably
 >thousands, of hours to this question, and we have no certain
 >answers. All we know is that we face the reality we now face.

If this is the case, it seems to be a particularly Anglo-Saxon
(as the French would say) problem. I'm not sure what you mean by
"conservative" - if you mean scientific and not given to wild
speculation, then this applies to UFO Aktuelt and UFO Revista
just as much.

I would add to my list of flourishing European magazines
Phenomena, the French language magazine - 36 pages, glossy
colour cover, professional production and well illustrated. The
subscription price is 22.90 euros, very close to IUR's rate of
$25.00 (UFO Revista is even cheaper at 16 euros). Admittedly,
the French magazine does have a wider language base than the
Swedish or Italian publications

Are there really only a few hundred people seriously interested
in ufology out of two billion English speakers world-wide?
(British Council statistics)

 >>If UFO magazines can be produced in languages which have
 >>practically no currency outside their native countries, and
 >>thrive on such a limited customer base, why can't IUN with is
 >>hugely greater customer base?

 >What is IUN? IUR with a typo? If the latter: well, the answer
 >is, we wish we knew. We're out of ideas.

Sorry about the typo. I have to say that IUR looks like
something done on a kitchen table rather than in an office that
people pay Chicago rents for. It is a very bland DTP production
with a boring cover. I know you're not a news-stand magazine
that sells on cover impact - although as has been pointed out,
the European magazines do get some news-stand sales - but you
still have to offer the readers of a magazine something that
looks as though it's worth the money (says the publisher of
Magonia, the world's cheapest UFO magazine after Saucer Smear!)

Or maybe the journalists we were all sneering at a while ago
were right, and we are witnessing the death of ufology?

--
John Rimmer
Magonia Magazine
www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/00/subscribe.htm
Subscriptions $20.00 (bills) for SIX issues!








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                         Re: UFOs And... - Hamilton

From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 15:39:21 UT
Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 11:53:02 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs And... - Hamilton


 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 11:46:49 -0400
 >Subject: Re: UFOs And...

 >>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 10:47:35 -0700
 >>Subject: Re: UFOs And...

 >>>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
 >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 23:34:36 -0700
 >>>Subject: Re: UFOs And...

 >>>Just out of curiosity, why does it seem like _every_ strange or
 >>>out-of-the-ordinary occurence is almost _automatically_
 >>>accompanied by reports of UFOS?

 >>Below are four examples of testimony that connects UFO with the
 >>sighting of angel hair. I could cite many more with the same
 >>flavor and common characteristics. Do you need more evidence?
 >>Let's try to explain this phenomena, not explain it away.

 >>3) October 1953 Victoria

 >>"In recent years only a few UFO reports refer to a filamentous
 >>substance "angel's hair", having been seen falling from the sky
 >>after a flying saucer had passed over. In the case below, the
 >>second in Australia but only now reported to UFOIC, it is
 >>believed that the same substance is involved. In the earliest
 >>report of October 1953, over Victoria a sample was recovered and
 >>made available for laboratory analysis. The examination revealed
 >t>hat the substance consisted of a nylon-like amorphous mass with
 >>traces of magnesium, calcium, boron and silicon. Since then the
 >>original material, which was kept in an air-tight container
 >>shrank from three to a mere half inch without residue."

 >>(A photograph of the remaining sample was shown.) (1) Source:
 >>(1) Australian Flying Saucer Review (NSW) No. 9 p12

 >>October 1955 Port Augusta South Australia (32.30S 137.46E)

 >>5 August 1961 0820hrs 55mins Mt Hale Station Western
 >>Australia (26.03S 117.15E)

 >>"Twelve round flying objects, moving fast in pairs, were sighted
 >>on August 6th, 1961, by ten independent witnesses near
 >>Meekatharra. They left a white trail of "streamers" which
 >>crumbled and disappeared when picked up by startled watchers at
 >>Mt Hale station, seventy-five miles west of Meekatharra. The
 >>silvery, round objects passed over the station at regular
 >intervals between 8.20 and 9.15 am.

 ><snip>

 >Note the descriptions of the substance "disappearing". This has
 >been a characteristic of "angel hair" that sets it apart from
 >spider silk, etc., which is stable in the atmosphere
 >(fortunately for the spiders, tent caterpillars, etc.)

 >Craig Phillips, long a member of the Fund for UFO Research, told
 >a similar story which, I believe involved a flyover of a UFO in
 >Florida sometime back in the 50's when he was working at the
 >aquarium there. He said material fell and he picked up some put
 >it into a jar and sealed the jar. Some time (days? weeks?) later
 >he looked in the jar and it was (appeared to be) empty. One may
 >presume that had be been part of a well funded scientific
 >operation he would have had the gas in the jar analyzed.

 >Perhaps Richard Hall can comment on this further. It had been
 >years since I heard Craig tell his story.

 >Bottom line: angel hair "disappears" (evaporates)... spider
 >silk... ummmm.... 'sticks around'.

Many years ago (1970s) we had the good fortune of obtaining some
angel hair that the witness said fell after the fly-by of a UFO.
This substance was placed in a jar with the lid tightly on and
put in a refrigerator for safekeeping until we could have it
analyzed, but the next day when we took the jar from the
refrigerator, we found... an empty jar! Hmmmm.


Bill Hamilton








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                  Does ET See Earth As A Wildlife Reserve?

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 15:01:17 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 15:01:17 -0400
Subject: Does ET See Earth As A Wildlife Reserve?


Source: The Toronto Star

Sunday, October 20, 2002
pA14

[keyed by ebk]

Does ET see Earth as a wildlife reserve?

The Universe
Terence Dickinson

According to an Angus Reid Poll, 70 per cent of Canadians
responded either "definitely" or "probably" when asked if they
think intelligent extraterrestrials inhabit other worlds.
Twenty-eight percent disagreed and 2 percent expressed no
opinion.

I'm not surprised. I have taken similar polls of my astronomy
classes and lecture audiences and the result is always around 85
percent on the side of extraterrestrials. Of course, there is a
selection effect at work in astronomy courses and talks that
would explain the somewhat higher percentage but I always
suspected that my little informal surveys must be a good
reflection of opinion at large.

Support for the notion of intelligent life on other worlds comes
first and foremost from the colossal number of stars in the
known universe.

Images from the Hubble Space Telescope tell the numbers story.
They reveal the universe's content out to billions of light-
  years from Earth. From the numbers of galaxies seen on the
Hubble pictures, astronomers estimate that, at minimum, there
are 50 billion galaxies in the know universe. Since a typical
galaxy contains 100 billion stars, the universe's cargo of stars
must be at least 5 billion trillion, give or take a billion
trillion or so.

When faced with such staggering numbers, most people think it is
more reasonable to assume that we are not alone. As the Greek
scholar Metrodorus put it in the fourth century B.C., "To
consider Earth the only populated world in infinite space is as
absurd as to assert that in an entire field sown with seed, only
one grain will grow."

Nobody knows what Metrodorus would have thought about the idea
of aliens visiting Earth, but we know from the survey what
Canadians think. Fifty-five per cent agree that it is "very
likely" or "somewhat likely" that Earth has been visited in the
past. And 43 per cent think it is more likely than not that
during their lifetimes extraterrestrials will visit Earth.

Although I think it is plausible, perhaps even likely, that
during the Earth's 4-billion-year history creatures from planet
Xgorf, or wherever, might have given our world an examination, I
part company with the nearly half of Canadians expecting
visitors from the sky to descend any day. I think there are
compelling arguments suggesting that if they aren't here
already, they're not coming. And I don't think alien abduction
stories about bulbous-eyed little creatures or any other UFO
reports offer credible evidence that we are being visited.

I think the high numbers accepting the idea that an alien
visitation might be imminent have been swayed by the ubiquitous
TV "documentaries" parading story after story of unexplained
sightings of UFOs, alien abductions, crop circles and other such
events. It can make compelling watching, but there is not a
single case that offers serious evidence that ET is here.

We may not be alone but I think if our cosmic cousins are out
there, they long ago decided to keep their distance and
designated Earth as a wild-life preserve.

-----

Terence Dickinson
skynewseditor@compuserve.com

is editor of Skynews magazine

http://skynews.ca/

and the author of several books for backyard astronomers








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                          Re: CUFOS Crisis - Clark

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 13:08:37 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 05:30:46 -0400
Subject: Re: CUFOS Crisis - Clark


 >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 14:56:03 +0100
 >Subject: Re: CUFOS Crisis

 >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >>To: <UFOupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Subject: Re: CUFOS Crisis
 >>Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 12:12:04 -0500

 >>>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 22:55:01 +0100
 >>>Subject: Re: CUFOS Crisis


John and patient, gentle Listfolk:

I have no idea what the purpose of Rimmer's posts on this
subject is. If he has evidence that CUFOS is guilty of reckless
spending, rank incompetence, financial wrongdoing, and/or secret
pocket-lining, I would sure love to hear about it. I have
participated in CUFOS board meetings since the mid-1980s and
have had regular access to the organization's financial records,
which are passed out and discussed at each meeting. The man who
prepares them, John P. Timmerman, worked as a professional
accountant all his life, sometimes with the assistance of
another accountant. Correct me if I'm wrong -- my memory isn't
what it used to be -- but I can't seem to recall seeing John
Rimmer there or hearing his analysis of our finances based on
actual data.

Let me put it this way, John, if you sincerely want to help,
rather than indulge yourself in what could easily be read as
sleazy innuendo, you are hereby invited to fly to Chicago for
some actual field investigation. Arrangements will be made to
pick you up at the airport, from which you will be driven to our
office on West Peterson Avenue. You may then examine our
operation with your own eyes, look over our financial records,
and actually educate yourself on the matter before you pop off
your mouth next time.


Jerry Clark








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                 Re: Hole In Larry Hatch's Back Yard Defies

From: Jean Meiners <legalco2002@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 11:43:53 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 05:33:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Hole In Larry Hatch's Back Yard Defies


 >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 04:39:40 -0700
 >Subject: Hole In Larry Hatch's Back Yard Defies Explanation

<snip>

 >I have a very suburban little property in Redwood City, CA., in
 >fact I grew up here. I know every little plant and tree.

 >What is new is a hole in the ground, about 2 feet or 60 cm away
 >from a new lemon tree I planted some years back. The hole is
 >only about 2 inches (50mm) in diameter or so, and it turns away
 >from the vertical so I cannot see much more than 3 or 4 inches



Larry:

What about an ordinary sink hole. I know California, especially
Southern California, is full of them. Some only go a short
distance, others... who knows. Possibly a fumerole? Not all
fumeroles eject steam or??? They just are... something like a
release valve. I know there is a seismic detection center in or
around Redwood City. Maybe they could help you shed some light
on it.


Jean








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                   Re: Teach Your Children Well - Meiners

From: Jean Meiners <legalco2002@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 11:47:56 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 05:36:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Teach Your Children Well - Meiners


 >From: John <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 02:34:04 -0400
 >Subject: Teach Your Children Well

 >Hello All,

 >I borrowed a line from a Crosby, Stills & Nash tune for the
 >title because apparently one of our major television networks is
 >actively educating our kids about aliens and UFOs.

 >http://abcnews.go.com/abcnews4kids/kids/

 >Click on the alien head image and follow the little 'primer'
 >they have created. I found the selection of 'sightings' feature
 >interesting in that they span many centuries. I'm very
 >interested to hear what others think of this unusual but
 >interesting web presentation by ABC News 4 Kids.

 >Are our children being 'conditioned' for disclosure or eventual
 >contact? I'd like to know what thoughts/impressions some of you
 >may have after perusing this site. I'd especially enjoy hearing
 >the impressions of experienced educators like Victor Vigianni
 >and others.

John and List:

This is what I meant about being conditioned for an eventual
"peaceful" take over. I know that there are people out there
that have had "spiritual-type" contact with aliens; but, then,
there are others who wish they could just curl up and die, any
way possible would probably be much less painful and/or
humiliating than what they have experienced. It may be there are
more than one alien-type. . .I don't know for sure, but I can
speculate. I think the children should be put on alert... there
all kinds of abductions. All are not good.


Jean








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                          Re: UFOs And... - Yturria

From: Santiago Yturria <syturria@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 14:57:06 EDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 05:39:31 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs And... - Yturria

<snip>

 >From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 15:39:21 UT
 >Subject: Re: UFOs And...

 >Many years ago (1970s) we had the good fortune of obtaining some
 >angel hair that the witness said fell after the fly-by of a UFO.
 >This substance was placed in a jar with the lid tightly on and
 >put in a refrigerator for safekeeping until we could have it
 >analyzed, but the next day when we took the jar from the
 >refrigerator, we found... an empty jar! Hmmmm.




We had a similar case here in Monterrey, Mexico last June and
local researcher Gilda Estrada took samples of the strange
yellowish substance left by the UFO that was witnessed and
filmed the night before landing over the Loma Larga Hill.

There was a large trace of this substance on the ground and she
put the sample into a glass jar and closed the container. At
this same moment the sample began emiting a dense mist that
filled the glass container. All this process was taped and I
have seen the images, Strange.

The next day the sample reduced itself a 50 % from inside the
container and Gilda took the sample to the local University
Biologic Laboratories since she is a biologic engineer herself.
They are still analyzing the sample that fortunately remained at
it's 40% of it original size. The laboratories personal are
puzzled with this specimen and still can not give a result due
to the very rare nature of the material. The case is still
inconclusive.


Santiago Yturria







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                Re: CI: Featured Essay 'Skeptics, Debunkers &

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 12:09:44 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 05:41:26 -0400
Subject: Re: CI: Featured Essay 'Skeptics, Debunkers &


 >Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 15:22:56 -0700 (PDT)
 >From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
 >Subject: CI: Featured Essay 'Skeptics, Debunkers & Believers'
 >To: macbot@yahoo.com

 >10-19-02
 >CI Featured Essay: Skeptics, Debunkers and Believers
 >by Mac Tonnies

 >http://mactonnies.com/cydonia.html

<snip>

I believe this is about the best essay I've ever read on the
subject. It's in my "keeper" file.

As Robert Anton Wilson once told me in an online interview,

"Doubt 'A'. Then doubt 'not-A'. Then doubt both 'A' and 'not-A'.
Then, doubt your own ability to doubt enough. When you're
finished with all that, doubt the nature of doubt itself."


==JJS==








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                 Re: UFO Interest On The Internet - Speiser

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 12:21:58 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 06:08:14 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Interest On The Internet - Speiser


 >From: Larry Hatch <larry@LARRYHATCH.NET>
 >To: Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 00:18:46 -0700
 >Subject: UFO Interest On The Internet

 >Rank      Hits          Search word(s)

 >1         1006          google
 >2         983           jokes
 >3         972           yahoo
 >4         832           health
 >5         753           ebay
 >6         728           hotmail
 >7         694           yahoo.com
 >8         636           halloween costumes
 >9         606           lyrics
 >10        597           Pictures
 >11        593           dictionary
 >12        562           hotmail.com
 >13        548           maps
 >14        541           games
 >15        506           mapquest
 >16        486           weather
 >17        449           www.yahoo.com
 >18        442           halloween
 >19        435           music
 >20        433           song lyrics

 >It goes on like that. I see the names of search engines a lot,
 >maps, web services, topical stuff, odd and unfamiliar things
 >like "kazaa, clipart, snes roms, quitar tabs(?), lingerie .. "
 >but nowhere is the word UFO to be found!

 >Here's the URL for the service:

 >http://www.wordtracker.com/reviews/webposition.html

 >Frankly I'm surprised.


You think that's surprising?  Where the hell is "sex"?  Was this
list censored for adult content?

Frankly, I'm suspicious.

By the way Kazaa is a service that does what Napster used to do...

==JJS==








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              Clinton Chief of Staff To Speak On UFO Disclosure

From: Grant Cameron <presidentialufo@presidency.com>
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 22:22:09 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 06:12:20 -0400
Subject: Clinton Chief of Staff To Speak On UFO Disclosure


Former White House Chief of Staff John Podesta to Come Forward
on UFO Disclosure

John Podesta, former Clinton White House Chief of Staff, will
speak in support of the effort to gain release of still secret
government UFO records. He will cite the importance to the
public of declassifying government records.

Podesta was a key member of the Clinton administration. That
administration went to great lengths to obtain the answer to the
UFO mystery.

Clinton's Science Advisor Dr. John Gibbons, for example,
initiated an investigation by the U.S.A.F. into the crash of an
unknown object at Roswell New Mexico. Clinton's first CIA
Director James Woolsey in 1993 also green-lighted a new CIA
investigation into UFOs. Clinton himself asked his good friend
Webster Hubbell to find out the truth about UFOs. Hillary
Clinton, also very interested in the UFO phenomena, helped
Laurance Rockefeller edit a letter to President Clinton on UFOs,
and was briefed on the UFO subject by Rockefeller at the
Rockefeller ranch during the President's 1995 vacation there.

The Podesta statement will be part of an announcement by the SCI
FI Channel in support of a new effort to gain release of secret
government records on unidentified aerial phenomena, commonly
referred to as UFOs and release a new report by an independent
journalist on the federal government's failure to carry out
systematic scientific research into this widespread phenomenon.

The big announcement will be made at the National Press Club in
Washington on Tuesday October 22, 2002.

Besides offering up support for disclosure on UFOs, a new  FOIA
initiative will also be announced. This will include the
announcement of the formation of the Coalition for Freedom of
Information (CFI).


Grant Cameron
www.presidentialufo.com


Perhaps there is a hopeful possibility here in the conquest of
outer space. Interplanetary activity may well give us planetary
peace. Once we discover Martian spaceships hovering over Earth's
air-space, we will all come together.

"How dare they threaten us like this!" we shall shout, as one,
at a really United Nations! Former Canadian Prime Minister
Lester Pearson in a speech receiving his Nobel Prize for Peace
in 1957.

--









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   Oct > Oct 21

                            Re: Gleason - Sandow

From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 01:00:51 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 06:23:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Gleason - Sandow


 >From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 21:52:55 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
 >Subject: Re: Gleason


 >Hi Greg!

 >Below is a short excerpt from Grant Cameron's web page about
 >President Richard M. Nixon and UFOs which suggests that you may
 >be wrong.

 >http://www.presidentialufo.8m.com/richardm.htm

 >Marty Venker, a Secret Service agent who worked with
 >Merletti under Presidents Ford and Carter, however, tells a
 >different story. His book 'Confessions of an Ex-Secret
 >Service Agent' tells that not only can the President
 >disappear, but it has happened. Venker stated that in the
 >exact year of the Homestead incident with Gleason, 1973,
 >Nixon had tried to cut his secret service protection. Venker
 >also stated that it was not uncommon for Nixon to try to
 >elude his secret service detail. The agents working on the
 >Nixon Presidential detail had been warned about it.


Nick,

Clearly there's more to this than I knew. Thanks for all the
detailed information. Very interesting, the differences between
theory and practice - between plans on paper, and what actually
happens when human beings do their very human thing.

The question now might be what happens when a President, shorn
of his usual entourage, shows up at a military base and wants to
see something utterly secret - with a civilian friend in tow,
no less. I can imagine that the base authorities might stall
even The President in a case like this, just as the Secret
Service would try to find Nixon when he eluded them.

Landing at Homestead, moreover, as Nixon did in transit, is very
different from visiting facilities on the base.

Clearly, though, I don't know enough about all this, and it's
good to learn more.


Greg Sandow








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   Oct > Oct 21

                     Re: Hole In Larry Hatch's Back Yard

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 02:47:09 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 06:39:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Hole In Larry Hatch's Back Yard


 >From: Jean Meiners <legalco2002@yahoo.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 11:43:53 -0700 (PDT)
 >Subject: Re: Hole In Larry Hatch's Back Yard Defies Explanation

 >>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 04:39:40 -0700
 >>Subject: Hole In Larry Hatch's Back Yard Defies Explanation

 ><snip>

 >>I have a very suburban little property in Redwood City, CA., in
 >>fact I grew up here. I know every little plant and tree.

 >>What is new is a hole in the ground, about 2 feet or 60 cm away
 >>from a new lemon tree I planted some years back. The hole is
 >>only about 2 inches (50mm) in diameter or so, and it turns away
 >>from the vertical so I cannot see much more than 3 or 4 inches

 >Larry:

 >What about an ordinary sink hole. I know California, especially
 >Southern California, is full of them. Some only go a short
 >distance, others... who knows. Possibly a fumerole? Not all
 >fumeroles eject steam or??? They just are... something like a
 >release valve. I know there is a seismic detection center in or
 >around Redwood City. Maybe they could help you shed some light
 >on it.

 >Jean


Hello Jean:

The little hole looks exactly like a small rodent burrow.

The only thing I cannot understand is the lack of excavated dirt
like a gopher or mole might leave. Do they eat the dirt or
what?

All sorts of things were suggested, including hornets and
"Deros". There is no history of Deros in Redwood City, and I'm
not trying for a slot on the Art Bell show.

I took the kind advise of another reader who suggested I put a
small amount of loose dirt over the hole. If its small critters,
they should leave some evidence after that.

I forgot to add that I live perhaps 7 miles East of the infamous
San Andreas Fault. There are no fumaroles around here, a little
ripe cheese maybe.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch







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                 Re: Hole In Larry Hatch's Back Yard Defies

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 02:55:45 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 09:55:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Hole In Larry Hatch's Back Yard Defies


 >From: Jean Meiners <legalco2002@yahoo.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 11:43:53 -0700 (PDT)
 >Subject: Re: Hole In Larry Hatch's Back Yard Defies Explanation

 >>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 04:39:40 -0700
 >>Subject: Hole In Larry Hatch's Back Yard Defies Explanation

[snip -LH]

 >>What is new is a hole in the ground, about 2 feet or 60 cm away
 >>from a new lemon tree I planted some years back. The hole is
 >>only about 2 inches (50mm) in diameter or so, and it turns away
 >>from the vertical so I cannot see much more than 3 or 4 inches


 >Larry:

 >What about an ordinary sink hole. I know California, especially
 >Southern California, is full of them. Some only go a short
 >distance, others... who knows. Possibly a fumerole? Not all
 >fumeroles eject steam or??? They just are... something like a
 >release valve. I know there is a seismic detection center in or
 >around Redwood City. Maybe they could help you shed some light
 >on it.


Hello again Jean:

I forgot something. The US Geological Survey has a major West
Coast facility in Menlo Park, CA, directly South of Redwood
City. Maybe that's what you were thinking of. I learned
electronics (at first) from one of their gurus over beer at the
Oasis Beer Garden in Menlo Park.

The USGS has seismic sensors all over the place, up and down the
San Andreas Fault especially. I visit their CA-NV Earthquake map
daily just to see what's rumbling, where, and how much. Here's
the URL for those interested. There are other good links too:

http://quake.usgs.gov/recenteqs/latest.htm


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch








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                  Re: UFO Interest On The Internet - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 03:23:01 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 09:57:27 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Interest On The Internet - Hatch


 >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: UFO Interest On The Internet
 >Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 12:21:58 -0700

<snip>

 >>It goes on like that. I see the names of search engines a lot,
 >>maps, web services, topical stuff, odd and unfamiliar things
 >>like "kazaa, clipart, snes roms, quitar tabs(?), lingerie .. "
 >>but nowhere is the word UFO to be found!

 >>Here's the URL for the service:

 >>http://www.wordtracker.com/reviews/webposition.html

 >>Frankly I'm surprised.

 >You think that's surprising? Where the hell is "sex"? Was this
 >list censored for adult content?

 >Frankly, I'm suspicious.

 >By the way Kazaa is a service that does what Napster used to do...

 >==JJS==

Hello Jim:

OK, that explains Kazaa.

"Sex" as a word is seldom seen. Instead, and further down the
list, more than I wanted to clog bandwidth, were all sorts of
things like Lolita, Bestiality and other fun stuff.

Sex is in there all right, and a lot of it is pretty kinky. The
Word-Tracker automatically cuts out "adult" (read juvenile) sex
oriented words, unless you opt _in_. Naturally, I opted in.

Still no UFO, nor anything like it.

Yes, I'm suspicious too. I sent an email asking questions. I
asked whether this was for Britain only ( WT is a UK site, and
the hit counts were suspiciously low, hundreds instead of
millions).

I pointedly asked how UFO(s) could be so starkly missing, when I
know there is some good interest out there, even now.

I'm still waiting for a response, maybe they took late Sunday
nite off. [burp!]


Best wishes

- Larry

- - - - - -








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                        A Response From Word Tracker!

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 04:08:55 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 09:59:59 -0400
Subject: A Response From Word Tracker!


Hello all:

I just got a response from Word Tracker.

Please see below for their explanations for the questions I
asked about UFO (etc) as a search term.

-----

Subject: Reply Support Ticket #[deleted]
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 11:42:59 +0100
From: Support <support@wordtracker.com>
To: larry@larryhatch.net

Hi

 >Please forgive these unsolicited questions:

 >1) Are these actual counts of queries going into the
 >top search engines: Google, Yahoo, Altavista, AOL etc.?

No these are counts from the major metacrawlers - Dogpile
and metacrawler.com, part of the Infospace network.

 >2) Are these just the counts for the UK, for the USA,
 >or worldwide?

Just for the US.

 >3) I'm surprised, amazed really, not to find the word
 >UFO (and/or variations) anywhere on your long lists!
 >Conventional wisdom (or perhaps urban legend) has it
 >that UFOs are the second highest item after sex / adult
 >stuff.

 >I get 50-100 hits a day on a relatively obscure UFO website,
 >others get much more. I simply don't understand this.
 >I never heard of some things that _are_ on the list.
 >Everybody has heard of UFOs, regardless of their opinions.

 >Can you explain this?

Ufo is highly searched upon (4551 per day) but does not make
it into the top 500.

Please see http://www.wordtracker.com/trial/
and you will see all the variations on the ufo keyword.
This is why the keyword lists are so useful because it gives
you the facts rather than just guesswork/urban legend.

Best

Andy [at]
Wordtracker

-----


OK. This is not what I though at all. WT results are based on
META-crawlers, Dogpile etc., which I never use personally!
"Meta-crawlers" are parasitic search engines which merely search
_other_ search engines, rather than spidering (examining) the
jillions of websites themselves. Meta-Crawlers are useful for
people who don't know which search engine is best to look up
some particular topic yet.

The results from Google or Yahoo could easily be very different,
and probably are.


Best wishes, and sorry for the fuss:

- Larry Hatch







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   Oct > Oct 21

                       Spain: UFO over Molins del Rei?

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 10:02:19 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 16:42:58 -0400
Subject: Spain: UFO over Molins del Rei?



Did Someone See a UFO in Molins de Rei? (Barcelona)
Pablo and Rosa P,rez--Barcelona

We need your help, please. [Our experience occured] on Saturday,
October 12, between 20:30 and 21:00 hours on National Highway
340 in the vicinity of Molins de Rei. As we drove in our car
toward Barcelona, all of the lights on the highway turned off at
the same time as the horizon became filled with a strange blue
light. One second later, the lights came on again and two
smaller flashes occured, having the same shade of blue. We
thought it was an explosion and even phoned the police, but no
explation was fortcoming.

We ask that anyone who witnessed this phenomenon please write
this newspaper to explain what happened and tell us that we
haven't gone crazy. There were many more cars [on the road] and
we are sure that we weren't the only ones to have seen the
event.

=============================================
Translation (C) 2002, IHU
Special thanks to Jordi Ardanuy








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   Oct > Oct 21

                      Re: Newton, NASA and NIDS - Cohen

From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@optonline.net>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 10:54:06 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:04:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Newton, NASA and NIDS - Cohen



 >Can NASA Stop Newton's Apple From Falling?
 >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 05:45:50 +0200
 >Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 10:48:33 -0400
 >Subject: Can NASA Stop Newton's Apple From Falling?

<snip>

 >Can NASA stop the apple from falling on Newton's head?
 >By Adam Rogers
 >Posted Friday, October 18, 2002, at 8:30 AM PT

 >**

 >"Don't call it antigravity research," Ron Koczor pleads.
 >He's a physicist at NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center
 >in Huntsville, Ala., and he's talking about a project he's
 >been working on for almost a decade. "Call it 'gravity
 >modification.' 'Gravity anomalies.' Anything but
 >antigravity. That's a red flag."

 >When people find out that the National Aeronautics and
 >Space Administration has researchers working on sci-fi
 >stuff like antigravity_or rather, "gravity modification"_the
 >red flags do indeed start waving. Reputable scientists
 >like Koczor earn polite disdain from colleagues (or worse,
 >from funders of research). But truth's truth: NASA has
 >been studying the manipulation of gravity for at least 10
 >years, as have nongovernment researchers.
 >
 >NASA began its work after a Russian physicist named
 >Evgeny Podkletnov published an article in the peer-
 >reviewed journal Physica C in 1992. Podkletnov claimed
 >that a device built around a superconductor and a
 >magnet could shield an object from gravity. The trick, he
 >said, was to make a superconducting disc about a foot in
 >diameter, chill it, levitate it over magnets_a nifty property
 >of superconductors is that they repel magnetic fields_and
 >set it revolving like a compact disc. Podkletnov said an
 >object placed above that contraption lost 0.3 percent of
 >its weight. The object itself didn't change. Rather,
 >gravity's effect on it lessened.

<snip>

 >After Podkletnov published his article, it took NASA until
 >1999 to figure out how to make a large, thin
 >superconducting disc.

<snip>

Hi Stig,

So, how does NIDS justify it's hypothesis that what was seen in
the Illinois 2000 UFO case (see URL below) might be military in
origin? They went from the above to a craft the size witnessed
in that account in one year and worked out all the details of
balancing it in flight, etc.? Oooops, I forgot, NASA is
obviously out of the loop.

http://www.nidsci.org/news/illinois/abstract.html


Respectfully,

Jerry Cohen








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                'Light Kills' Livestock Attacks Girl In India

From: Albert Rosales <Garuda79@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 11:32:28 EDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:09:50 -0400
Subject: 'Light Kills' Livestock Attacks Girl In India


Source: UFO India

http://www.ufoindia.org/ufo-india-sighting41_moremuhnochwa.htm

Mysterious Light Allegedly Kills Livestock,
Attacks Girl In U.P. In August 2002

Posted on: October 7, 2002 at 11:00 P.M. (IST)

Jas Kalon of the UK sent in the following report. It seems like
Uttar Pradesh has more UFO activity than we knew of before. This
report is about a series of sightings in Puranpur, near Pilibhit
in Uttar Pradesh:

My grandparents and uncles live in Puranpur, in Uttar Pradesh
and my mother phoned them on Monday 26th August to enquire after
their welfare as she usually does. They seemed slightly on-edge
and we asked them what the problem was. They told them that
there have been disturbances in their area at night. They said
that a bright light would appear in the sky and would send down
beams of fire onto the ground and burn up anything that came
into it's path.

On the night of Sunday 25th August, a house nearby them was
'attacked' and they said that the "light" had entered a cow shed
and killed all the livestock, burning the cow's to nothing but
embers.

A few days before, the light was seen travelling across the sky
at an incredible speed - they said it made a quiet buzzing sound
as it travelled across the sky. Next morning, people found the
body of a farmer whom everybody knew - he was totally burned
out.

I was utterly amazed at these claims. I checked out your website
today and read reports of such occurences in Uttar Pradesh -
  this is no coincidence and I think this should be investigated.

I phoned my grandparents this Saturday which has just gone and
enquired about this phenomenon which has gripped that part of
the world. They told me that the young daughter of one of their
relatives was attacked by this "light". This happened in a place
called Mathuna, I think. It is a village in Puranpur, U.P.. It
was a hot night and people were getting ready to go to sleep.
Then out of nowhere, the light appeared and sent down another
beam of light onto the girl (who is 11 or 12 years old). She
screamed and everyone escaped inside.

They observed the light for a few minutes from inside as it
hovered above their house. Eventually it disappeared. There were
numerous other disturbances like this one that same night. My
uncle and grandfather being the skeptics they are, heard news of
this and travelled to Mathuna to see if the girl really had been
attacked. They checked out the wounds and they were real. The
girl said she remembers nothing but the light hitting her and
feeling a burning sensation on her arm the next morning.
Eventually, a wound appeared which got worse as the day went on.

What do you think it is? Is is a UFO or some creature? Could it
be man-made and the authorities are using unassuming village
folk as guinea pigs in experiments? I think a team of
investigators should be sent down to the Puranpur area and try
to get this "light" on tape or photo. This is an amazing
opportunity - if this thing could be caught, it would be an
enormous event.

That is all I know for the moment but if I hear anything else,
you will be the first to know.

Jas Kalon

-----






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                Re: CI: Featured Essay 'Skeptics, Debunkers &

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 08:34:17 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:11:40 -0400
Subject: Re: CI: Featured Essay 'Skeptics, Debunkers &


 >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 12:09:44 -0700
 >Subject: Re: CI: Featured Essay 'Skeptics, Debunkers & Believers'

<snip>

 >>10-19-02
 >>CI Featured Essay: Skeptics, Debunkers and
 >Believers
 >>by Mac Tonnies

 >I believe this is about the best essay I've ever
 >read on the
 >subject. It's in my "keeper" file.

I'm glad you liked it. I corrected a few minor errors; the
finished version can be found @:

http://mactonnies.com/skeptic.html

 >As Robert Anton Wilson once told me in an online
 >interview,

 >"Doubt 'A'. Then doubt 'not-A'. Then doubt both 'A' and 'not-A'.
 >Then, doubt your own ability to doubt enough. When you're
 >finished with all that, doubt the nature of doubt itself."

Great advice!

Mac







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                            Swedish 'Contactee'?

From: Albert Rosales <Garuda79@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 11:35:03 EDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:31:36 -0400
Subject: Swedish 'Contactee'?


Does anyone know about a UFO contact that occurred at a place
called 'Tuna'(?) in Sweden in 1914 - the witness was one Rita
Raininger.

Any details available on that?

Maybe some of my Scandinavian colleagues can shed a little
light.


Thank you,

Albert Rosales







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                           Re: UFOs And... - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 15:52:19 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:33:54 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs And... - Hall


 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 11:46:49 -0400
 >Subject: Re: UFOs And...

 >>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 10:47:35 -0700
 >>Subject: Re: UFOs And...

 >>>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
 >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 23:34:36 -0700
 >>>Subject: Re: UFOs And...

 >>>Just out of curiosity, why does it seem like _every_ strange or
 >>>out-of-the-ordinary occurence is almost _automatically_
 >>>accompanied by reports of UFOS?

<snip>

 >Note the descriptions of the substance "disappearing". This has
 >been a characteristic of "angel hair" that sets it apart from
 >spider silk, etc., which is stable in the atmosphere
 >(fortunately for the spiders, tent caterpillars, etc.)

 >Craig Phillips, long a member of the Fund for UFO Research, told
 >a similar story which, I believe involved a flyover of a UFO in
 >Florida sometime back in the 50's when he was working at the
 >aquarium there. He said material fell and he picked up some put
 >it into a jar and sealed the jar. Some time (days? weeks?) later
 >he looked in the jar and it was (appeared to be) empty. One may
 >presume that had be been part of a well funded scientific
 >operation he would have had the gas in the jar analyzed.

 >Perhaps Richard Hall can comment on this further. It had been
 >years since I heard Craig tell his story.

 >Bottom line: angel hair "disappears" (evaporates)... spider
 >silk... ummmm.... 'sticks around'.

Bruce & list,

Craig's report on this incident is in The UFO Evidence (1964,
and 1997 Barnes & Noble reprint edition). As a trained
biologist, his observation is of well above avergae interest.

  - Dick








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                          Secrecy News -- 10/21/02

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 14:05:26 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:37:10 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 10/21/02

SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2002, Issue No. 104
October 21, 2002


**      NAS OPPOSES "SENSITIVE BUT UNCLASSIFIED" CATEGORY
**      SEN. GRAHAM ON BUSH ADMINISTRATION SECRECY
**      JUSTICE DEPT INVOKES STATE SECRETS PRIVILEGE
**      2002 INTELLIGENCE BUDGET DISCLOSURE SOUGHT
**      BOEING UNVEILS "BIRD OF PREY"


NATIONAL ACADEMY OPPOSES "SENSITIVE BUT UNCLASSIFIED" CATEGORY

The government should sharply limit the classification of
scientific and technical information, imposing "high fences
around narrow areas," and should "avoid creation of vague and
poorly defined categories of 'sensitive but unclassified'
information," according to a new statement from the presidents
of the National Academies of Science and Engineering.

The information designation "sensitive but unclassified" has
become increasingly controversial because of its lack of any
precise definition.  "Experience shows that vague criteria of
this kind generate deep uncertainties among both scientists and
officials responsible for enforcing regulations," the NAS
statement says. "The inevitable effect is to stifle scientific
creativity and to weaken national security."

The statement calls for a new dialog between scientists and
policymakers in order "to achieve an appropriate balance between
scientific openness and restrictions on public information."

"Restrictions are clearly needed to safeguard strategic secrets;
but openness also is needed to accelerate the progress of
technical knowledge and enhance the nation's understanding of
potential threats,"the NAS statement says.

The text of the October 18 statement, as well as a "Background
Paper on Science and Security in an Age of Terrorism," are
linked from here:

http://www.national-academies.org/topnews/#tn1018

The new statement represents views that are widely shared among
scientists and other interested observers.

But it is perhaps less helpful to policymakers than it might be
since it does not directly confront the specific disclosure
issues officials are grappling with.

For example, an influential January 13, 2002 New York Times
story by William J. Broad reported that declassified technical
reports that provided details of the production of chemical and
biological weapons were publicly available for purchase.  The
reports were subsequently withdrawn from public access.  Should
they have remained accessible?  Should they have been
reclassified (requiring a modification to the current executive
order on classification)? Or were they properly "sensitive but
unclassified"?

The Academy statement doesn't say.  Yet this issue is close to
the heart of the matter.  According to a cognizant Justice
Department official, the March 19 White House memo that
reintroduced the question of "sensitive but unclassified"
information was "a direct result of the ... New York Times
story."

Similarly, there are already over a dozen existing categories of
the kind of "sensitive but unclassified" information that the
Academy objects to, including several that are written into
statute, such as "unclassified controlled nuclear information"
(UCNI).  Should these be eliminated?  Clarified?  Consolidated?
  It remains an open question.


SEN. GRAHAM ON BUSH ADMINISTRATION SECRECY

The Bush Administration has adopted a pattern of selective
disclosure of classified information that corresponds more
closely to its political agenda than to the requirements of
national security, according to Intelligence Committee chairman
Sen. Bob Graham.

"I will say there's been a pattern in which information is
provided on a classified basis, and then what is declassified
are those sections of the report that are most advantageous to
the administration," he said yesterday on the CBS News program
Face the Nation.

"And, frankly, there is a piece of information which is still
classified which I consider to be the most important information
that's come to the attention of the joint committee
[investigating September 11]."

"We hope that it will be declassified. I think it is an
important part of our judgments as to where our greatest threats
are and what steps we need to do to protect the American people
here at home."

The full transcript of the October 20 Face the Nation may be
found here:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/10/21/ftn/main526319.shtml


JUSTICE DEPT INVOKES STATE SECRETS PRIVILEGE

Attorney General John Ashcroft last week asserted the state
secrets privilege in a move that will likely lead to dismissal
of a lawsuit brought by an FBI whistleblower, who was fired
after she reported irregularities in the FBI foreign language
translation program.

"To prevent disclosure of certain classified and sensitive
national security information, Attorney General Ashcroft today
asserted the state secrets privilege in Sibel Edmonds v.
Department of Justice," according to an October 18 Justice
Department press statement.

The specific nature of the secrets at issue in this case was not
immediately evident.  But asserting the state secrets privilege
is an extreme step that is all but certain to terminate
litigation.

"In the past, this privilege has been applied many times to
protect our nation's secrets from disclosure, and to require
dismissal of cases when other litigation mechanisms would be
inadequate. It is an absolute privilege that renders the
information unavailable in litigation," according to the Justice
Department.  See:

http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2002/10/doj101802.html


2002 INTELLIGENCE BUDGET DISCLOSURE SOUGHT

The CIA and the Justice Department are making "significant
progress" in preparing to oppose a Federation of American
Scientists lawsuit seeking disclosure of the fiscal year 2002
intelligence budget total, according to a new "status report"
filed in D.C. District Court.

But it "is a time-consuming process, involving review and
coordination among a number of affected subject matter and
classification experts [including DCI Tenet].  Their involvement
is necessary because the aggregate intelligence budget number is
classified, and there are major policy issues that must be
resolved in deciding whether or not to disclose it," the October
15 status report said.  See:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/foia/cia101502.html

A Washington Post editorial today put the matter more simply:
  The continuing classification of the intelligence budget is
"something Mr. Tenet ought to fix."

The editorial, which reviews the recent hearings on intelligence
failures leading up to September 11, may be found here:

  http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A57554-2002Oct21.html


BOEING UNVEILS "BIRD OF PREY"

The Boeing Company last week disclosed details of its formerly
classified Bird of Prey aircraft, a stealth technology demonstrator.

"The once highly classified project ran from 1992 through 1999, and
was revealed because the technologies and capabilities developed
have become industry standards, and it is no longer necessary to
conceal the aircraft's existence."

See an October 18 Boeing release with accompanying images here:

http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2002/q4/nr_021018m.html


_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood@fas.org
voice:  (202) 454-4691








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                 CCCRNNews: Midale and Weyburn, Saskatchewan

From: Paul Anderson <psa@look.ca>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 20:20:30 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:38:19 -0400
Subject: CCCRNNews: Midale and Weyburn, Saskatchewan


CCCRN NEWS
The E-News Service of the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network

http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada

October 21, 2002

_____________________________


UPDATES - MIDALE AND WEYBURN, SASKATCHEWAN FORMATIONS

Field reports, additional photos and survey diagrams have been
added for the Midale and Weyburn, Saskatchewan formations.

For all updates, see the Crop Circles in Canada 2002 page on the
web site:

http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada


Crop Watch is an annual research project of CCCRN, including
field investigations and studies of formations, aerial
surveillance and awareness initiatives for farmers, the public
and the media, in particular during the prime August / September
'circle season' on the Canadian prairies

____________________________


CCCRN News is the e-news service of the Canadian Crop Circle
Research Network, providing e-mail updates with the latest news
and reports on the crop circle phenomenon in Canada, as well as
other information on CCCRN-related projects and events, sent
free to your e-mail.

To subscribe, send an e-mail with Subscribe CCCRN News
in the subject line to:
cccrnnews@look.ca


The Canadian Crop Circle Research Network is a non-profit
research organization which has been investigating and
documenting the crop circle phenomenon and other possibly
related phenomena in Canada since 1995, creating a liason
between researchers, farmers, the public, the media and
scientists in trying to solve this ongoing enigma.

Main Office

202 - 325 East 14th Avenue
Vancouver, BC V5T 2M9 Canada
Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522
Cell: 604.727.1454
E-Mail: psa@look.ca
Web: http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada

=A9 Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, 2002








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                Re: CI: Featured Essay 'Skeptics, Debunkers &

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 18:40:32 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:41:43 -0400
Subject: Re: CI: Featured Essay 'Skeptics, Debunkers &


 >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 12:09:44 -0700
 >Subject: Re: CI: Featured Essay 'Skeptics, Debunkers & Believers'

 >>Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 15:22:56 -0700 (PDT)
 >>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
 >>Subject: CI: Featured Essay 'Skeptics, Debunkers & Believers'
 >>To: macbot@yahoo.com

 >>10-19-02
 >>CI Featured Essay: Skeptics, Debunkers and Believers
 >>by Mac Tonnies

 >>http://mactonnies.com/cydonia.html

 ><snip>

 >I believe this is about the best essay I've ever read on the
 >subject. It's in my "keeper" file.

Yup. Nice.

 >As Robert Anton Wilson once told me in an online interview,

 >"Doubt 'A'. Then doubt 'not-A'. Then doubt both 'A' and 'not-A'.
 >Then, doubt your own ability to doubt enough. When you're
 >finished with all that, doubt the nature of doubt itself."

My version, learned many years ago from slogging it out in the
ditches of investigation while "hordes" of skeptics, debunkers
and even believers slung mud... etc... is this:

When it comes to UFO information you can't trust anyone but
yourself. (Other people tend to make mistakes)

And guess what?

You can't even trust yourself. (You also tend to make mistakes)


X-files was right:

Trust No One.







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                 Re: UFO Interest On The Internet - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 18:40:52 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:44:53 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Interest On The Internet - Maccabee


 >From: Larry Hatch <larry@LARRYHATCH.NET>
 >To: Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 00:18:46 -0700
 >Subject: UFO Interest On The Internet

<snip>

Hello:

Like most of us, I presumed that UFOs are one of the busiest
topics on the internet. There are countless UFO websites, any
number of email discussion groups like (or unlike) this one etc,
My single website sees 50-100 visits per day, sometimes a lot
more.

Google search on UFO got 1.38 million hits
Google search on SEX got 33.8 millions hits
Google search on GOLF got 18.6 million hits
      "           LOVE     44.4 million hits

What does this prove?

More people like LOVE with SEX and GOLF than UFOs.







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               Re: Does ET See Earth As A Wildlife Reserve? -

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 18:40:43 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:46:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Does ET See Earth As A Wildlife Reserve? -


 >Source: The Toronto Star

 >Sunday, October 20, 2002
 >pA14

 >[keyed by ebk]

 >Does ET see Earth as a wildlife reserve?

 >The Universe
 >Terence Dickinson

 >According to an Angus Reid Poll, 70 per cent of Canadians
 >responded either "definitely" or "probably" when asked if they
t>hink intelligent extraterrestrials inhabit other worlds.
 >Twenty-eight percent disagreed and 2 percent expressed no
 >opinion.

<snip>

 >Although I think it is plausible, perhaps even likely, that
 >during the Earth's 4-billion-year history creatures from planet
 >Xgorf, or wherever, might have given our world an examination, I
 >part company with the nearly half of Canadians expecting
 >visitors from the sky to descend any day. I think there are
 >compelling arguments suggesting that if they aren't here
 >already, they're not coming. And I don't think alien abduction
 >stories about bulbous-eyed little creatures or any other UFO
 >reports offer credible evidence that we are being visited.

 >I think the high numbers accepting the idea that an alien
 >visitation might be imminent have been swayed by the ubiquitous
 >TV "documentaries" parading story after story of unexplained
 >sightings of UFOs, alien abductions, crop circles and other such
 >events. It can make compelling watching, but there is not a
 >single case that offers serious evidence that ET is here.


Isn't this the guy who published, 25 years ago or so, the
Astronomy Magazine articles on the Hill abduction and star map
discussion?








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                         Re: UFOs And... - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 18:40:37 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:47:52 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs And... - Maccabee


 >From: Santiago Yturria <syturria@aol.com>
 >Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 14:57:06 EDT
 >Subject: Re: UFOs And... - Hamilton
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net

 ><snip>

 >>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 15:39:21 UT
 >>Subject: Re: UFOs And...

 >>Many years ago (1970s) we had the good fortune of obtaining some
 >>angel hair that the witness said fell after the fly-by of a UFO.
 >>This substance was placed in a jar with the lid tightly on and
 >>put in a refrigerator for safekeeping until we could have it
 >>analyzed, but the next day when we took the jar from the
 >>refrigerator, we found... an empty jar! Hmmmm.

 >We had a similar case here in Monterrey, Mexico last June and
 >local researcher Gilda Estrada took samples of the strange
 >yellowish substance left by the UFO that was witnessed and
 >filmed the night before landing over the Loma Larga Hill.

 >There was a large trace of this substance on the ground and she
 >put the sample into a glass jar and closed the container. At
 >this same moment the sample began emiting a dense mist that
 >filled the glass container. All this process was taped and I
 >have seen the images, Strange.

 >The next day the sample reduced itself a 50 % from inside the
 >container and Gilda took the sample to the local University
 >Biologic Laboratories since she is a biologic engineer herself.
 >They are still analyzing the sample that fortunately remained at
 >it's 40% of it original size. The laboratories personal are
 >puzzled with this specimen and still can not give a result due
 >to the very rare nature of the material. The case is still
 >inconclusive.


This is very important. If anyone gets a sample of this stuff,
put it into a sealable container. Even if it seems to disappear
don't open the container. IT would be possible to do a gas
analysis by puncturing the container while it is in a vacuum and
then do mass spectrometry. Even before breaking the bottle it
might be possible to do IR and even terahertz spectroscopy which
would pick up molecular absorption "lines" characteristic of the
molecules.

As a comparison, one would evaporate spider web and other
natural web material and do spectroscopy on the web vapor.








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                          Re: CUFOS Crisis - Rimmer

From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 22:45:05 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:49:13 -0400
Subject: Re: CUFOS Crisis - Rimmer


 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >To: <UFOupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 13:08:37 -0500
 >Subject: Re: CUFOS Crisis

 >John and patient, gentle Listfolk:

 >I have no idea what the purpose of Rimmer's posts on this
 >subject is. If he has evidence that CUFOS is guilty of reckless
 >spending, rank incompetence, financial wrongdoing, and/or secret
 >pocket-lining, I would sure love to hear about it. I have
 >participated in CUFOS board meetings since the mid-1980s and
 >have had regular access to the organization's financial records,
 >which are passed out and discussed at each meeting. The man who
 >prepares them, John P. Timmerman, worked as a professional
 >accountant all his life, sometimes with the assistance of
 >another accountant. Correct me if I'm wrong -- my memory isn't
 >what it used to be -- but I can't seem to recall seeing John
 >Rimmer there or hearing his analysis of our finances based on
 >actual data.
 >
 >Let me put it this way, John, if you sincerely want to help,
 >rather than indulge yourself in what could easily be read as
 >sleazy innuendo, you are hereby invited to fly to Chicago for
 >some actual field investigation. Arrangements will be made to
 >pick you up at the airport, from which you will be driven to our
 >office on West Peterson Avenue. You may then examine our
 >operation with your own eyes, look over our financial records,
 >and actually educate yourself on the matter before you pop off
 >your mouth next time.
 >Jerry Clark

Patient and listing gentlefolk:

What a remarkable outburst from Jerry Clark, who seems to have
reverted to his old habit of replying to messages that people
haven't sent and that exist only in his imagination. I urge you
to read my previous posting (Jerry conveniently clips it all
from his reply) and try to find where I have made any suggestion
that the financial afairs of CUFOS are conducted with anything
other than the utmost probity!

Rank incompetence! Reckless spending!! Financial wrongdoing!!!
Secret pocket lining!!!!

Amazing stuff, but nowhere did I even hint that such fascinating
goings-on might be going on in West Peterson Avenue. But Jerry
does so like to dramatise everything.

I merely expressed surprise that an important UFO magazine,
published in the English language, and thus with a potential
world-wide market, should be struggling, when equally or better
produced journals in languages which are spoken by far fewer
people, appear to be florishing. I had rather hoped this might
spark some debate as to why Anglo-American ufology seems to be
in a decline, whilst ufology in countries such as Italy, france,
the Scandinavian countries and Spain still appears to be
thriving.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe serious ufology isn't on its last legs in
the USA. Maybe the European journals are living on borrowed time
too? Wouldn't it be worth discussing this, Jerry, rather than
going off on a rant about accusations of fraud which exist only
in your imagination?

Or maybe the interest is there in the USA, as much as it is in
Italy, France, Sweden and Spain, but CUFOS is not producing the
'product' that satisfies that interest. As I suggested earlier,
IUR does seem rather flat and uninteresting. Journals can be
serious and lively, you know. Those qualities are not mutually
exclusive, but this is the impression you get from reading IUR.

How do the rents in Canby compare with Chicago? Surely in the
age of electronic communication the idea of a rented, major city
headquarters for a small, voluntary body is a bit out of date?

--
John Rimmer
Magonia Magazine
www.magonia.demon.co.uk






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               Re: Does ET See Earth As A Wildlife Reserve? -

From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 22:19:53 -0300
Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 07:53:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Does ET See Earth As A Wildlife Reserve? -


 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 18:40:43 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Does ET See Earth As A Wildlife Reserve?

 >>Source: The Toronto Star

 >>Sunday, October 20, 2002
 >>pA14

 >>[keyed by ebk]

 >>Does ET see Earth as a wildlife reserve?

 >>The Universe
 >>Terence Dickinson

 >>According to an Angus Reid Poll, 70 per cent of Canadians
 >>responded either "definitely" or "probably" when asked if they
 >think intelligent extraterrestrials inhabit other worlds.
 >>Twenty-eight percent disagreed and 2 percent expressed no
 >>opinion.

 ><snip>

 >>Although I think it is plausible, perhaps even likely, that
 >>during the Earth's 4-billion-year history creatures from planet
 >>Xgorf, or wherever, might have given our world an examination, I
 >>part company with the nearly half of Canadians expecting
 >>visitors from the sky to descend any day. I think there are
 >>compelling arguments suggesting that if they aren't here
 >>already, they're not coming. And I don't think alien abduction
 >>stories about bulbous-eyed little creatures or any other UFO
 >>reports offer credible evidence that we are being visited.

 >>I think the high numbers accepting the idea that an alien
 >>visitation might be imminent have been swayed by the ubiquitous
 >>TV "documentaries" parading story after story of unexplained
 >>sightings of UFOs, alien abductions, crop circles and other such
 >>events. It can make compelling watching, but there is not a
 >>single case that offers serious evidence that ET is here.

 >Isn't this the guy who published, 25 years ago or so, the
 >Astronomy Magazine articles on the Hill abduction and star map
 >discussion?

Definitely the same guy. Terry never did really dig into the UFO
data. He did a fine job  on the Zeta Reticuli stuff (Copies
still available from UFORI, POB 958, Houlton, ME 04730-0959 , 32
page full color " The Zeta Reticuli Incident". I will throw in
for members of the List the 4 page update for the same $5 US
price ($7.50 CAD for Canadians... send orders to:

79 Pembroke Crescent,
Fredericton,
New Brucnswick
E3B 2V1
Canada

However his books and column are about astronomy and I think he
wants to stay on the good side of the Astronomy community and
the SETI cultists though he is well aware of some of their
deficiencies. Just imagine the horror if they come to earth for
some other purposes than talking to astronomers, who despite
their wishful thinking, do not represent the primary concerns of
Earthlings or aliens.


Stan Friedman








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               FBI 'Scrambling' To Investigate UFO Over Albany

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 00:05:39 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 07:58:36 -0400
Subject: FBI 'Scrambling' To Investigate UFO Over Albany



Strange Sighting over Albany Airport, New York
Video and URL link:

http://www.fox23news.com

Flying Object over Albany International
October 21, 2002

A strange sight in the skies over the Capital Region - no one
knows yet what is was - but it was enough to have the FBI
scrambling to take a look.

One of our videographers was shooting a plane taking off from
the albany international airport - at the same time the strange
object streaked through the sky - it was moving so fast, he
didn't even see it, until he played his tape in slow motion.

We're told the object did *not show up on radar. Authorities
will continue to analyze the video to figure out what the flying
object is. We'll keep you posted








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                          Re: CUFOS Crisis - Gates

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 01:16:56 EDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 08:01:17 -0400
Subject: Re: CUFOS Crisis - Gates


 >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 22:45:05 +0100
 >Subject: Re: CUFOS Crisis

<snip>

 >I merely expressed surprise that an important UFO magazine,
 >published in the English language, and thus with a potential
 >world-wide market, should be struggling, when equally or better
 >produced journals in languages which are spoken by far fewer
 >people, appear to be florishing. I had rather hoped this might
 >spark some debate as to why Anglo-American ufology seems to be
 >in a decline, whilst ufology in countries such as Italy, france,
 >the Scandinavian countries and Spain still appears to be
 >thriving.

The UFO subject has been in decline since 1997 and by some
accounts since 1995. John has probably forgotten how UFO
magazine has had to branch out, if you will, in order to
survive. People I know in the book publishing world tell me that
the UFO subject peaked in 1997, i.e. the 40th anniversary of
Roswell and after that the publishers are not as interested as
they once were.

The news stand glossy color magazines survive for a number of
reasons. Being more liberal with your content (ie UFO mag and
the UK UFO mag) not to mention getting into a nationwide
distribution chain. That said, even the nation wide magazines
are feeling the pinch and have seen subscriptions drop off from
what they were a few years ago.


Cheers,

Robert








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                  Re: UFO Interest On The Internet - Gates

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 01:25:16 EDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 08:02:32 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Interest On The Internet - Gates


 >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: UFO Interest On The Internet
 >Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 12:21:58 -0700

<snip>

 >Frankly, I'm suspicious.

 >By the way Kazaa is a service that does what Napster used to do...

According to recent articles and accounts Kazaa is also milking
the cow at the customers Internet expense. While the person with
Kazaa installed on their system is happily doing their Internet
thing, the folks at Kazaa are farming out calculations, on a for
pay basis, of which your CPU cycles are being milked. Kind of
like the SETI deal. As I recall from an article, they typically
see about 5000 people on line and can farm out complex
calculations over the networked 5000 computers


Cheers,

Robert







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                            SDI & Macintosh Users

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 02:06:25 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 08:05:36 -0400
Subject: SDI & Macintosh Users


Hi All Mac users,

Because Macintosh computer owners are treated like the
'illegitimate children' of the computer world, we get shut out
(if not outright ignored) of many features that Windows users
take for granted.

One such "feature" that up until now Mac users could not enjoy
was, listening to 'Strange Days... Indeed' over the live
Internet feed from radio station CFRB.

Well, thankfully, that situation has _finally_ changed.  :)

No more do Mac owners have to spring for expensive Windows
emulators if they wish to listen to SDI. All you have to do is
go to the Apple software download page (Apple.com) and grab a
free copy of 'iTunes.'

Versions of iTunes are available for OS 9, (all versions) or for
the new Unix  based operating system, OS X. I grabbed and
installed one copy of each. (One for OS 9.2.2 and one for OS
10.1.1)

At long last, Mac owners can access SDI and enjoy the broadcast
in all the glorious digital splendor that a Mac can deliver.
Plus, for all you 60's burnouts... there is a fractal generator
built-in to iTunes that uses the signal from either music or the
spoken word to generate digital psychedelic displays that are
guaranteed to hypnotize and entertain. It's like a souped up
21st Century version of a Lava Lamp!  :)

So, all mac owners... get ye over to Apple.com and grab a copy
of iTunes in time to catch the next broadcast of SDI.


Regards to all,

John Velez,
Contributing editor, SDI

Sign the International Petition to the United Nations
for disclosure of information pertaining to UFOs.

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition








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             Re: 'Light Kills' Livestock, Attacks Girl In India

From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 07:55:46 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 13:37:47 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Light Kills' Livestock, Attacks Girl In India


 >From: Albert Rosales <Garuda79@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 11:32:28 EDT
 >Subject: 'Light Kills' Livestock Attacks Girl In India

 >Source: UFO India

 >http://www.ufoindia.org/ufo-india-sighting41_moremuhnochwa.htm

 >Mysterious Light Allegedly Kills Livestock,
 >Attacks Girl In U.P. In August 2002

 >Posted on: October 7, 2002 at 11:00 P.M. (IST)

<snip>

Again:

 >Could it be man-made and the authorities are using
 >unassuming village folk as guinea pigs in experiments?

For some years, a few thousand people have been reporting
similar, slightly less spectacular incidents in which advanced
technology of some sort has attacked them, leaving real burns
and performing other very unusual effects. In some cases, the
time frame has been years long.

When such incidents have been reported to government or
scientific authorities, these targetted people have been told to
"see a good psychiatrist". Just as with the thousands of people
who were involuntarily fed radioactive substances, who were
officially referred to by the authorities as "the crazies".
Until the official apology by President Clinton.

While these incidents in south central Asia are very tragic, one
good thing which may come out of them, provided the general
public becomes aware, is the silencing of these haughty self-
  appointed experts in a level of science about which they know
nothing. Ditto the noisy naysayers who are "just too
sophisticated to believe that nonsense".

If this happens, the suffering of the people and animals who
have been attacked will not be entirely in vain.


Eleanor White








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   Oct > Oct 22

                Re: FBI 'Scrambling' To Investigate UFO Over

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 09:49:20 -0300
Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 13:39:57 -0400
Subject: Re: FBI 'Scrambling' To Investigate UFO Over


 >From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 00:05:39 -0700
 >Subject: FBI 'Scrambling' To Investigate UFO Over Albany

 >Strange Sighting over Albany Airport, New York
 >Video and URL link:

 >Flying Object over Albany International
 >October 21, 2002

 >A strange sight in the skies over the Capital Region - no one
 >knows yet what is was - but it was enough to have the FBI
 >scrambling to take a look.

 >One of our videographers was shooting a plane taking off from
 >the albany international airport - at the same time the strange
 >object streaked through the sky - it was moving so fast, he
 >didn't even see it, until he played his tape in slow motion.

 >We're told the object did *not show up on radar. Authorities
 >will continue to analyze the video to figure out what the flying
 >object is. We'll keep you posted

Hi Kenny,

It seems now that Fox is refusing access to this video.

These multi-winged "rods" seem to be an artifact generated by a
combination of the camera's shutter speed and panning across or
against the line of flight, of an insect-or perhaps in this case
a bird. It wasn't noticed in the first place by the photographer
- but only when he viewed it in slo-mo. If, indeed, this went
behind a cloud then it might be something of interest.

Be nice to have a look though. Is it saved anywhere else?


Best,

Don Ledger







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                Re: FBI 'Scrambling' To Investigate UFO Over

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 09:42:21 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 13:41:28 -0400
Subject: Re: FBI 'Scrambling' To Investigate UFO Over


 >From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 00:05:39 -0700
 >Subject: FBI 'Scrambling' To Investigate UFO Over Albany


 >Strange Sighting over Albany Airport, New York
 >Video and URL link:

 >http://www.fox23news.com

 >Flying Object over Albany International
 >October 21, 2002

 >A strange sight in the skies over the Capital Region - no one
 >knows yet what is was - but it was enough to have the FBI
 >scrambling to take a look.

 >One of our videographers was shooting a plane taking off from
t>he albany international airport - at the same time the strange
 >object streaked through the sky - it was moving so fast, he
 >didn't even see it, until he played his tape in slow motion.

 >We're told the object did *not show up on radar. Authorities
 >will continue to analyze the video to figure out what the flying
 >object is. We'll keep you posted


I have been asked to review the tape. Will let you know what I
find out.








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                          Re: CUFOS Crisis - Harney

From: John Harney <magonia@harneyj.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 16:33:28 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 13:44:13 -0400
Subject: Re: CUFOS Crisis - Harney


 >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 01:16:56 EDT
 >Subject: Re: CUFOS Crisis

 >>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 22:45:05 +0100
 >>Subject: Re: CUFOS Crisis

 ><snip>

 >>I merely expressed surprise that an important UFO magazine,
 >>published in the English language, and thus with a potential
 >>world-wide market, should be struggling, when equally or better
 >>produced journals in languages which are spoken by far fewer
 >>people, appear to be florishing. I had rather hoped this might
 >>spark some debate as to why Anglo-American ufology seems to be
 >>in a decline, whilst ufology in countries such as Italy, france,
 >>the Scandinavian countries and Spain still appears to be
 >>thriving.

 >The UFO subject has been in decline since 1997 and by some
 >accounts since 1995. John has probably forgotten how UFO
 >magazine has had to branch out, if you will, in order to
 >survive. People I know in the book publishing world tell me that
 >the UFO subject peaked in 1997, i.e. the 40th anniversary of
 >Roswell and after that the publishers are not as interested as
 >they once were.

 >The news stand glossy color magazines survive for a number of
 >reasons. Being more liberal with your content (ie UFO mag and
 >the UK UFO mag) not to mention getting into a nationwide
 >distribution chain. That said, even the nation wide magazines
 >are feeling the pinch and have seen subscriptions drop off from
 >what they were a few years ago.


I think it's important to distinguish between serious UFO
journals and organisations and the majority which appear to be
devoted to the show business approach to the subject - gee-whiz
books, crazy conferences, lecture tours (telling them what they
want to hear), chat shows, etc.

I haven't seen any evidence of a decline in serious interest in
UFO reports, and serious practical or theoretical work on the
subject, but it's certainly a bit out of fashion at the moment
as a form of popular entertainment.

Also, there's another UFO journal I'd like to add to the list
given by John Rimmer - the Chilean bi-monthly La Nave de los
Locos. This is a cheaply printed 40-page A4 magazine, obviously
not sold on newsstands. Although it contains some cartoons and
humorous items it is basically deadly serious and publishes some
excellent stuff produced by South American and Spanish
ufologists, as well as articles translated from English and
French. For serious ufologists it provides a good incentive for
learning Spanish.


John Harney

(no silly slogans)








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                          Re: CUFOS Crisis - Clark

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 10:58:47 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 13:46:08 -0400
Subject: Re: CUFOS Crisis - Clark


 >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 22:45:05 +0100
 >Subject: Re: CUFOS Crisis


 >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >>To: <UFOupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 13:08:37 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: CUFOS Crisis

 >What a remarkable outburst from Jerry Clark, who seems to have
 >reverted to his old habit of replying to messages that people
 >haven't sent and that exist only in his imagination. I urge you
 >to read my previous posting (Jerry conveniently clips it all
 >from his reply) and try to find where I have made any suggestion
 >that the financial afairs of CUFOS are conducted with anything
 >other than the utmost probity!

My word. You _are_ an excitable soul, aren't you, John? I went
back to read your original communication, and I find that I
would not change a word of my response. I do, however,
appreciate your clarification. It is a relief to learn that you
are not implying incompetence or venality on our part. Your
original words certainly lent themselves to that distasteful
impression. One can't help suspecting, of course, a degree of
disingenuousness on your part, but no matter.

 >I merely expressed surprise that an important UFO magazine,
 >published in the English language, and thus with a potential
 >world-wide market, should be struggling, when equally or better
 >produced journals in languages which are spoken by far fewer
 >people, appear to be florishing. I had rather hoped this might
 >spark some debate as to why Anglo-American ufology seems to be
 >in a decline, whilst ufology in countries such as Italy, france,
 >the Scandinavian countries and Spain still appears to be
 >thriving.

I doubt that any UFO magazines, whether in English or otherwise,
are "thriving," however one defines that word. A discussion on
another list, with contributors from a variety of European and
non-European nations, indicates declining public interest and
attendant support for organized ufology pretty much everywhere.
There are a number of reasons for this, of course, and all have
figured in the various discussions, most of them thoughtful,
that have followed my initial posting on CUFOS' crisis. What you
call "Anglo-American ufology" is hardly an isolated enterprise
and never has been, even before the Internet age.

 >Or maybe the interest is there in the USA, as much as it is in
 >Italy, France, Sweden and Spain, but CUFOS is not producing the
 >'product' that satisfies that interest. As I suggested earlier,
 >IUR does seem rather flat and uninteresting. Journals can be
 >serious and lively, you know. Those qualities are not mutually
 >exclusive, but this is the impression you get from reading IUR.

To start with, there are other ways to measure public interest
or indifference besides IUR subscription numbers. One is sales
of UFO books, which are significantly down since at least 1997,
as any writer of UFO books who has ever talked with agent and/or
editor could have told you. Popular UFO interest has never been
constant. It has always been cyclical. We are now at the low
end of the cycle. Beyond that:

Hmmm ... do I sense some cognitive dissonance here? IUR is
"flat and uninteresting"; yet its boring contents seem to drive
the editors of Magonia to distraction. Hardly a Magonia issue
goes by that I don't find IUR's co-editor's name taken in vain,
sometimes more than once. Magonia contributors have been known
to write entire articles, in that magazine and elsewhere,
devoted to would-be refutations of IUR contributors.

Non-readers of Magonia will be amused to read here that, for
example, the lead editorial of the current issue consists of an
impassioned attack on a recent IUR essay (written, again, by the
dreaded undersigned, apparently Magonia's version of the Great
Satan). If that makes us flat and uninteresting, may we
continue to be horizontal and dull.

 >How do the rents in Canby compare with Chicago? Surely in the
 >age of electronic communication the idea of a rented, major city
 >headquarters for a small, voluntary body is a bit out of date?

Huh? Have you been following this discussion, or just lobbing
criticisms with all the insight of a random- number generator?
  Have you any clue as to, one, why we have rented space (gee,
what could that space possibly contain?) and, two, why the
location of CUFOS' office in a major, easily reachable city in
the middle of North America is maybe, just maybe, valuable to
researchers and worth preserving?

Maybe if you'd been in our office just once, we wouldn't be
having this discussion at all. Those of you who have been
there, I'm sure, must be either shaking your heads or laughing
them off.


Jerry Clark








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                      Re: SDI & Macintosh Users - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 12:32:35 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 13:49:38 -0400
Subject: Re: SDI & Macintosh Users - Velez

Hi All,

I've heard from a couple of mac users asking about 'itunes' and
how to use it. I'm going to post one of the responses I wrote
and I hope it helps other Mac addicts with the
installation/connection process.

If any one has any questions please feel free to write to me,
I'll be happy to do what I can to help you get connected so you
can enjoy listening to SDI. ;)

My response to one of the inquiries:

Hello,

I'm not sure if you need a dedicated G3 or G4 Apple CPU to run
itunes. It might not work on mac clones. Let me know. If you
have USB ports, itunes will allow you to use a large number of
the more popular brand CD-R units to burn CDs.

If your computer allows you to install itunes... all you have to
do is click on the software installer and make sure that you
select itunes as your default Internet sound utility in the
dialog box provided.

Then, go to the CFRB website:

http://www.cfrb.com

and click on the 'Listen Live' link. When the listen live page
opens, click on the blue banner that allows you to access the
live broadcast.

One of two things will happen:

It 'should' automatically open up itunes and begin playing the
streaming audio signal. If it does _not_ open itunes
automatically, you can select itunes under the 'Helper
applications' heading in your browser's "Preferences."

Edit > Preferences > Helper Applications. Scroll down the
list of programs in 'Helper Applications' and click/select
'itunes'.

Go back to the 'Listen Live' page at CFRB and try again. It
_should_ work. Let me know if you have any problems connecting.

Good luck, and I trust that you'll be sitting in the audience
for the next edition of SDI. I look forward to having you join
us. :)

Hope this helps.


Regards,

John Velez
Sign the International Petition to the United Nations
for disclosure of information pertaining to UFOs.

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition








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   Oct > Oct 22

                  Clinton Aide Slams Pentagon's UFO Secrecy

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 15:40:37 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 15:40:37 -0400
Subject: Clinton Aide Slams Pentagon's UFO Secrecy

http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/10/22/ufo.records/index.html

Clinton Aide Slams Pentagon's UFO Secrecy

By Richard Stenger
CNN Tuesday, October 22, 2002
Posted: 3:09 PM EDT (1909 GMT)

(CNN) -- One winter night in 1965, eyewitnesses saw a fireball
streak over North America, bank, turn and appear to crash in
western Pennsylvania. Then swarms of military personnel combed
the area and a tarp-covered flatbed truck rumbled out of the
woods.

Now a former White House chief of staff and an international
investigative journalist want to know what the Pentagon knows,
calling on it to release classified files about that and other
incidents involving unidentified flying objects, or UFOs.

"It is time for the government to declassify records that are
more than 25 years old and to provide scientists with data that
will assist in determining the real nature of this phenomenon,"
ex-Clinton aide John Podesta said Tuesday.

A Pentagon spokesperson could not be reached for comment
regarding the requests for information.

Despite earning little credence, cases of strange aerial
phenomena that defy explanation abound -- whether witnessed by
thousands of Arizona residents, commercial airline pilots or a
U.S. president.

The new initiative is not setting out to prove the existence of
aliens. Rather the group wants to legitimize the scientific
investigation of unexplained aerial phenomena.

Podesta was one of numerous political and media heavyweights on
hand in Washington, D.C., to announce a new group to gain access
to secret government records about UFOs.

Specifically, the Coalition for Freedom of Information (CFI) is
pressing the Air Force for documents involving Project Moon Dust
and Operation Blue Fly, clandestine operations reported to have
existed decades ago to investigate UFOs and retrieve objects of
unknown origins. Mysterious case?

One of the most mysterious cases, the Kecksburg, Pennsylvania
incident of December 5, 1965, is the first cited in the group's
request for records through the Freedom of Information Act
(FOIA).

Despite an official government story that the object was a
meteorite, some eyewitnesses claimed that a military truck took
an acorn-shaped object the size of a small car from the rural
Pennsylvania crash site to an Air Force base in Ohio.

"We can't come up with a reason why this information is being
withheld. The government won't even acknowledge that the
incident took place but we know that it did," said Leslie Kean,
a California-based freelance reporter who drafted the FOIA
request.

In the 1940s, 1950s and 1960s, the government did take the UFO
search seriously and top generals considered the pros and cons
of informing the U.S. public, Kean said, citing top secret
memos.

In 1969, however, the Air Force terminated Project Blue Book,
concluding that no reported UFOs were threats to national
security.

Paradoxically, Kean notes, the military continues to deny some
requests for UFO information by citing national security
concerns. Trying to stamp out ridicule

Backed by the Sci-Fi channel, the CFI hopes to reduce the
scientific ridicule factor in this country when the topic is
UFOs.

"There's definitely evidence of strange phenomenon in the world.
These are well documented," said Kean, who has written for The
Nation, the Boston Globe and the International Herald Tribune.

"Most people don't think that there is evidence because they
haven't look for it. There's such a little green men mindset in
this culture. It's hard to work your way through that."

The CFI director Ed Rothschild also works for Podesta's public
relations firm, PodestaMattoon, which is coordinating the new
group at the behest of the Sci- Fi channel. He said the
initiative was a call for serious investigation, not a publicity
stunt for the cable network.

"The Sci-Fi channel has had an interest in [UFOs] for some time.
The difference here is that they are focusing attention on the
serious, factual side of the issue, and that scientists have not
had a chance to thoroughly examine it," Rothschild said.

"Of course it could help programming. But Sci-Fi thought they
had some resources they could bring to the table."







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   Oct > Oct 22

                  Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Young

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 12:51:58 EDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 15:43:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Young


 >From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 21:14:03 -0300
 >Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs?

 >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto)
 >>Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:30:15 EDT
 >>Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs?

 >>>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 23:54:54 -0300
 >>>Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs?

 >>>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>>Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 11:46:52 -0400
 >>>>Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Maccabee

<snip>

 >>>One of the most obvious, I would suggest, is the Valentich case.

 >>Which could have been a hoax. In any case, who has proven what
 >>happened, and its cause?

 >What? He hoaxed his death?

Don:

Not necessarily, maybe just his disappearance. Please see
Bruce Maccabee's post, above. It has apparently occurred
to others. Who knows, it may remain a mystery. In any case,
unless one can prove what happened, how can anyone state
that this was a death caused by a "UFO"?


Clear skies,

Bob Young








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   Oct > Oct 23

                          Re: CUFOS Crisis - Clark

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 12:51:46 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 07:50:42 -0400
Subject: Re: CUFOS Crisis - Clark


 >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 22:45:05 +0100
 >Subject: Re: CUFOS Crisis

 >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >>To: <UFOupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 13:08:37 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: CUFOS Crisis


Listfolk:

 >>I merely expressed surprise that an important UFO magazine,
 >>published in the English language, and thus with a potential
 >>world-wide market, should be struggling, when equally or better
 >>produced journals in languages which are spoken by far fewer
 >>people, appear to be florishing. I had rather hoped this might
 >>spark some debate as to why Anglo-American ufology seems to be
 >>in a decline, whilst ufology in countries such as Italy, france,
 >>the Scandinavian countries and Spain still appears to be
 >>thriving.

 >I doubt that any UFO magazines, whether in English or otherwise,
 >are "thriving," however one defines that word. A discussion on
 >another list, with contributors from a variety of European and
 >non-European nations, indicates declining public interest and
 >attendant support for organized ufology pretty much everywhere.
...

 >There are other ways to measure public interest
 >or indifference besides IUR subscription numbers. One is
 >sales of UFO books, which are significantly down since at
 >least 1997, as any writer of UFO books who has ever talked
 >with agent and/or editor could have told you. Popular UFO
 >interest has never been constant. It has always been cyclical.
 >We are now at the low end of the cycle.

I should have added to my words above the following relevant
item of information: It's not just CUFOS and IUR that are
suffering from neglect and indifference. It's also their
opposite numbers: CSICOP and Skeptical Inquirer.

A recent fund-raising letter by CSICOP Executive Director Barry
Karr states, "CSICOP and Skeptical Inquirer hare [sic]
struggling with current finances like never before in their
history," and goes on in that vein for a number of
characteristically purple paragraphs.

Clearly, interest in scientific anomalies - even from a hostile
perspective such as CSICOP's - is down.


Jerry Clark








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   Oct > Oct 23

               Re: Clinton Aide Slams Pentagon's UFO Secrecy -

From: Michael Briggs <mbriggs@newpress.upress.ukans.edu>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 15:27:10 -0500, UTC
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 07:55:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Clinton Aide Slams Pentagon's UFO Secrecy -


 >Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 15:40:43 -0400
 >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: UFO UpDate: Clinton Aide Slams Pentagon's UFO Secrecy
 >To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers -

 >Source: CNN.com/Science & Space

 >http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/10/22/ufo.records/index.html

 >Clinton Aide Slams Pentagon's UFO Secrecy

 >By Richard Stenger
 >CNN Tuesday, October 22, 2002
 >Posted: 3:09 PM EDT (1909 GMT)

 >(CNN) -- One winter night in 1965, eyewitnesses saw a fireball
 >streak over North America, bank, turn and appear to crash in
 >western Pennsylvania. Then swarms of military personnel combed
 >the area and a tarp-covered flatbed truck rumbled out of the
 >woods.

 >Now a former White House chief of staff and an international
 >investigative journalist want to know what the Pentagon knows,
 >calling on it to release classified files about that and other
 >incidents involving unidentified flying objects, or UFOs.

 >"It is time for the government to declassify records that are
 >more than 25 years old and to provide scientists with data that
 >will assist in determining the real nature of this phenomenon,"
 >ex-Clinton aide John Podesta said Tuesday.

<snip>

Errol & List:

Ed Rothschild does work for both the Coalition for Freedom of
Information and for PodestaMattoon. But the PodestaMattoon
website lists its co-chair as as Athony Podesta, not ex-Clinton
aide John Podesta, who's currently affiliated with Georgetown
University Law Center, I believe.

I wonder why the confusion.

I assume, however, that CNN got it right when they listed John
Podesta as "one of numerous political and media heavyweights on
hand in Washington, D.C., to announce a new group to gain access
to secret government records about UFOs." Which someone on this
List should be able to confirm.

Mike Briggs

---
Michael







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   Oct > Oct 23

              HBCC UFO Research Hungry Hill - British Columbia

From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 13:55:35 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 08:00:24 -0400
Subject: HBCC UFO Research Hungry Hill - British Columbia


Hungry Hill - 15 Miles West of Houston, British Columbia

Date: October 17, 2002
Time: approx: 8:30 p.m.

I receive word from a friend, that he had heard about a sighting
which took place on Hungry Hill which is approx: 15 Miles West
of Houston, B.C. An older couple were on their way home to
Topley, B.C. (which is approx: 13 miles east of Houston) from
shopping in Smithers, B.C. . They were coming up Hungry Hill
(which is a long steep grade) when one of the witnesses saw a
green/red flashing. She said it would flash from red to green,
and then green to red according to this lady. She said to her
husband, who was driving their car, do you see what I see ? He
said yes I do !

(HBCC UFO Note: The witness mentioned to me, that she told her
husband we had better not tell anyone as they would think we
were crazy).

They both said the object moved slowly above the tree line near
the top of the hill, she said it would stop, hover, and continue
moving slowly, then disappear. As they drove along the object
reappeared, still just above the tree tops, and then moved
across the highway in front of them and again came to a complete
stop. At this point they stopped their car and watched the
strange object, moving back and forth across the highway still
just above tree top level. Before the object left the location,
it started trailing "sparkly stuff" behind it, which shot out
approx: 100 to 200 feet and left in a northwesterly direction
which would have been towards Grouse Mountain. The object was
circular in shape, or what they could see from the flashing of
the lights.

Both witnesses said there was no noise, or interference on the
radio, they said they heard no noise what so ever. (HBCC UFO
Note: The two folks who watched this, and mentioned to me they
could not hear any sounds from the object, this could have been
due to them driving along in their car with the radio on. But
after they pulled over, the husband did get out of the vehicle
and still reported no sound from it. He explained, whatever it
was, was very close, just a head of them and kept crossing the
highway).

Both witnesses said the object was approx: the size of the old
satellite dishes, (C - Band, which is approx: 10 to 12 feet in
diameter. They still use this C - Band system and this is why
they used this to determine a size for it).

Before I finished the conversation with them, they both stressed
that the object would move back and forth across the highway,
and when it reached either side, it stopped and hovered for a
couple seconds, and then fly back across the highway to the
other side. This whole process took about 10 minutes before it
left the area and when leaving, it moved very quickly.

Take care

Brian
HBCC UFO Research &
Editor for the Canadian Communicator Journal







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   Oct > Oct 23

                      Re: Swedish 'Contactee'? - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 14:01:40 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 08:02:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Swedish 'Contactee'? - Hatch


 >From: Albert Rosales <Garuda79@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 11:35:03 EDT
 >Subject: Swedish 'Contactee'?

 >Does anyone know about a UFO contact that occurred at a place
 >called 'Tuna'(?) in Sweden in 1914 - the witness was one Rita
 >Raininger.

 >Any details available on that?

 >Maybe some of my Scandinavian colleagues can shed a little
 >light.

Hello Albert:

There is nothing close here.

I have only 7 listings for 1914: Spain, France, Germany,
England, Canada...  no contactees, nothing at all in
Scandinavia. AFU Sweden might have something.


Sorry

- Larry









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                  Re: UFO Interest On The Internet - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 14:23:21 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 08:04:45 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Interest On The Internet - Hatch


 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 18:40:52 -0400
 >Subject: Re: UFO Interest On The Internet

 >>From: Larry Hatch <larry@LARRYHATCH.NET>
 >>To: Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 00:18:46 -0700
 >>Subject: UFO Interest On The Internet

 ><snip>

 >Hello:

 >Like most of us, I presumed that UFOs are one of the busiest
 >topics on the internet. There are countless UFO websites, any
 >number of email discussion groups like (or unlike) this one etc,
 >My single website sees 50-100 visits per day, sometimes a lot
 >more.

 >Google search on UFO got 1.38 million hits
 >Google search on SEX got 33.8 millions hits
 >Google search on GOLF got 18.6 million hits
 >  "      LOVE   44.4 million hits

 >What does this prove?

 >More people like LOVE with SEX and GOLF than UFOs.

- - - -

Hello Bruce:

I should have tried that, Search Engine returns.

If we presume (rashly) that the average 'love' site say, gets as
many hits as the average UFO site, then UFOs sink down the
search list by 1 or 2 orders of magnitude.

Toward the other end of the scale, I searched Google for:

Cilantro - -  91,900 sites/pages
Turnips  - - 207,000  "
Rutabaga - -  25,000  "

The apples/oranges argument may well apply. The Google numbers
indicate how many people are willing to publish something on
this or that theme. People are always trying to publish stuff
even if there is no great public interest.

Word Tracker at least tried to see what the _readers_ were
looking for. Sadly, they have a limited sample to look thru; one
or two Dogpile type meta-searches which redirect queries to
multiple bonafide SE databases.


Best

- Larry








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   Oct > Oct 23

                  Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 19:25:44 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 08:06:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Ledger


 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 12:51:58 EDT
 >Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs?

 >>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 21:14:03 -0300
 >>Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs?

 >>>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto)
 >>>Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:30:15 EDT
 >>>Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs?

 >>>>One of the most obvious, I would suggest, is the Valentich case.

 >>>Which could have been a hoax. In any case, who has proven what
 >>>happened, and its cause?

 >>What? He hoaxed his death?

 >Not necessarily, maybe just his disappearance. Please see
 >Bruce Maccabee's post, above. It has apparently occurred
 >to others. Who knows, it may remain a mystery. In any case,
 >unless one can prove what happened, how can anyone state
 >that this was a death caused by a "UFO"?


Hi Bob,

There's no doubt in my mind. 60 miles off the coast, engine
running rough and he's talking to Flight Service telling them
there's a large object making approaches on his aircraft, moving
away and then hovering overhead. His altitude is degrading and
he's down to 4,000 feet an uncomfortably low altitude for an
airplane 60 miles offshore. Just reading his side of the
communication with Fligt Service [at his level and flight hours]
indicates real stress. He's obviously preoccupied with cockpit
work and he's stressed.

Valentich was getting additional time to build up his commercial
flying hours so as to get his instructor's rating then on to
commercial flying jobs and eventually an airline pilots rating.
That's how it's done. The rest is nonsense. There was never any
evidence of a hoax and he had nothing to gain. Just his life to
lose.


Best,

Don Ledger






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               FBI Investigates UFO Video Now 'Bug Frequency'?

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 18:16:31 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 08:13:39 -0400
Subject: FBI Investigates UFO Video Now 'Bug Frequency'?


Unidentified flying object caught on tape; FBI help sought

Source: The Times Union - Albany, NY

http://www.timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=63973&category=REGION&new
sdate=10/22/2002

By CATHY WOODRUFF,
Staff writer

First published: Tuesday, October 22, 2002

Was it a terrorist missile, an off-course alien space craft or
just a zippy mosquito with a hearty autumn constitution? Local
authorities hope the FBI will know for sure.

The image caught on videotape by a Fox 23 cameraman shooting
background for weather stories on Sunday resembles -- when it's
slowed, enlarged and paused -- a fine rod with a small set of
wings near each end.

The cameraman didn't notice it at the time, said Fox assignment
editor Jeb Rowledge, but the tiny dark spot streaking across the
frame, apparently above the clouds, caught his eye while editing
the video of a plane taking off at Albany International Airport.

The station showed the video to airport and Albany County
Sheriff's officials Sunday night, and on Monday, local
authorities asked the FBI to take a look, too.

"There's something on that videotape that is interesting, to say
the least, but we don't have any idea what it is," said airport
spokesman Doug Myers.

"Right now, we don't know what it is or if it was there," said
Undersheriff John Mahan. "It looks like a rocket," but it did
not show up on airport radar, and even the cameraman didn't see
it until he looked at the tape.

Albany FBI spokeswoman Lisa Massaroni said the tape will likely
be sent to FBI headquarters in Washington, D.C., for analysis.
"Nothing has been determined about what, if anything, is on that
video," she said.

The image resembles phenomena called "rods," which some buffs
suggest could be paranormal or extraterrestrial.

Skeptics, however, say they are simply the result of an insect
flying past a video camera at a certain speed and distance. They
contend the figure is formed because bug wings beat at a
different frequency from the frame capture rate of a video
camera, creating a strange image resembling a rod, the blurred
body of the insect moving forward, and small bulges along each
side.








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   Oct > Oct 23

               Hungry Hill British Columbia - Second Sighting

From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 21:50:30 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 09:27:03 -0400
Subject: Hungry Hill British Columbia - Second Sighting


HBCC UFO Research

Hungry Hill - 15 Miles West of Houston, British Columbia

Date: October 8, 2002
Time: 9:45 p.m.

Wedge shaped object.

A resident from Telkwa, British Columbia was heading to work
(graveyard shift) in Houston, B.C. at one of our local sawmills
when he spotted, in his words. "An object shaped like a piece of
pie" ! He also said it had three white lights at each of the
corners, or "fins" as he put it. The witness also said he lives
under the flight path for the Smithers airport, and had not ever
seen an object of this type or shape fly over head in the past,
so seeing this was very unusual. When his eyes caught it he
turned into a pull out area, or rest spot they have at the top
of Hungry Hill to watch it, mainly to see what it was going to
do, or to try to figure out what it was he was watching.

He also said the object sat and hovered in one place approx: 200
feet up from the base of Grouse Mountain and did not make a
sound that he could hear. He was stopped at this time, out of
his vehicle, standing watching what ever this was. He also
mentioned that it looked as if the object was tucked in around a
farm which was in the valley just a little north west of his
location. I asked him what color it was, he said "black. The
witness said he could clearly see the silhouette of it, this is
why he was so sure of what shape it was. I asked if he had some
kind of idea how large this craft was, he came back with it
being approx: 40 feet across. He watched the object move off in
a westerly direction towards Quick and Telkwa, B.C. The witness
said he had enough, as it bothered him and got back into his
vehicle and got out of the area quickly.

HBCC UFO Note: I am planning to go and talk to some of the
farmers/ranchers in the area where this was seen, just in case
they had noticed anything strange around the area on the date
given above. With so much going on in this area, I might get
lucky and come up with a different report. I will keep everyone
posted.

Take care
Brian Vike
HBCC UFO Research &
Editor for the Canadian Communicator Journal








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                           Sci Fi News Conference

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 03:09:49 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 09:32:39 -0400
Subject: Sci Fi News Conference


presidentialufo@canada.com wrote:

 >Larry

 >I understand you are attending the news conference
 >tomorrow.

 >If you take notes or post anything can you be sure to
 >send me a copy.

 >I ran a story on Podesta's role, and have received
 >almost 11,000 hits on my web sites today.

 >I would like to post a timely update for all my new
 >friends.

 >Grant

 >The Presidents UFO Story
 >www.presidentialufo.com

Okay, Grant, here's your little pound of flesh:

A (Public) Moment for UFOtruth: SciFi v. SciLie
By
Larry W. Bryant

Q.: What do you get when you assemble a select panel of pro-UFO-
research partisans at the National Press Club in Washington,
D.C., to launch a long-overdue frontal assault upon the
government coverup of the UFO experience?

A.: You get a meager turnout of news media representatives
(about seven), due in part to the latest attack by the Beltway
Sniper (on Oct. 22, 2002). And, alas, you get a sense of deja vu
that harks back to the days of the now-defunct National
Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena. Indeed, at the
height of NICAP's influence in Washington circles during the
1960's, the privately funded organization failed to persuade
Congress to mount an in-depth probe into the coverup. Its demise
came on the heels of the USAF-commissioned Condon Committee
report's declaration that UFO reports merit no serious,
sustained scientific investigation.

Now comes a slightly more sophisticated campaign, backed
(presumably) by some megabucks from corporate interests, to pick
up where NICAP left off. The panel in question consists of
personnel from the cable-TV industry (viz., the Science Fiction
Channel), independent journalism, national-security oversight,
and activist UFOlogy.

For example, SciFi Channel president Bonnie Hammer tells us that
the SciFi audience of nearly 80 million homes appreciates
receiving, and deserves to continue receiving, the channel's
programing on various "investigated realities." Among these
projects, by the way, will be the airing, in late November, of a
2-hour "special" on the Roswell Incident - dovetailing with
fictionalized Roswellian intrigue woven into the Spielberg-
produced miniseries "Taken," as scheduled for telecast in early
December. Hammer's enthusiastic announcement focuses on three
pursuits in the politics of UFO awareness:

* Lending official corporate support to - and lobbying for -
  renewed efforts to secure release of significant records that
our government has chosen to conceal from public view.

* Establishing a newly formed Coalition for Freedom of
Information [for which a better title would be: Coalition for
UFO Freedom of Information and Accountability]. The CFI position
statement characterizes this independent alliance as bringing
together "people who have both studied and been exposed to the
UFO phenomenon and who believe it to be worthy of further
investigation" [a NICAPian redux, to be sure]. The group's major
objective: to achieve credibility among the leadership of
organized science, the mainstream news media, and the Congress.
CFI director Ed Rothchild explains: "We have constructed a new
website -- http://www.freedomofinfo.org - to generate public
support for greater disclosure of government records and for
more scientific investigation."

* Sponsoring, by SciFi, of "a symposium exploring the
potential for interstellar travel and the evidence of
unidentified aerial phenomena" at the George Washington
University in Washington, on Nov. 8, 2002. Panelists will
include such eminent American scientists and aviation experts as
Richard Henry, professor of astrophysics at Johns Hopkins
University; Peter Sturrock, emeritus professor of applied
physics at Stanford University; and John Callahan, former
division chief for accidents and investigations at the Federal
Aviation Administration.

For his part in this milestone press conference of Oct. 22,
former White House staff secretary for the Clinton
administration John Podesta reaffirms his rejection of the
notions that "the government always knows best," and that "the
people can't be trusted with the truth." He adds, "I think it's
time to open the books about the government's investigation of
UFO's. The American people can handle the truth [shades of Jimmy
Carter's promise]." In Podesta's book, "disclosure is the
general rule, not the exception." Note: during the Q & A
session, Podesta's remarks about excessive secrecy draw most of
the response from the press corps. He happens to operate a
Washington-based public-relations firm (Podesta-Mattoon) now
being retained by SciFi to, in his words, "keep the pressure on
toward keeping the declassification mission moving forward."
Constant pressure needs to be applied, he emphasizes. And this
not-quite-dull knight on a shining horse (i.e., the new,
galloping vanguard for UFO-E.T. disclosure) might just be the
ticket for admission - considering his high-level contacts,
specialized knowledge-and-experience base, and civic-mindedness
(including his role as an advisory board member of the openness-
  in-government James Madison Project:

http://www.jamesmadisonproject.org

In the SciFi press release on the conference, Hammer reveals
that the channel's challenge to government secrecy includes
"backing a Freedom of Information Act initiative to obtain
government records on cases involving retrieval of objects of
unknown origin by the secret Air Force operations Project Moon
Dust and Operation Blue Fly." Counsel for this pursuit has been
retained from the Washington law firm of Lobel, Novins and
Lamont. A pivotal case fitting the above parameters and
circumstances leads off the effort via an Oct. 22 FOIA request
sent to USAF headquarters by investigative journalist Leslie
Kean. The retrieval in question occurred on Dec. 5, 1965, near
Kecksburg, Pa., and included numerous witnesses from the
community.

Will this kind of pressure convince the Air Force to cough up
the artifacts from the Kecksburg crash-landing? Perhaps not;
but, thanks to the folks at SciFi.com, we once again have
another opportunity to acknowledge, and to advance, the view
expressed by the late Maj. Donald E. Keyhoe (USMC, Ret.),
NICAP's founding director:

"The American people have proved that they can take shocking situations
. . . without collapsing in fear. If prepared carefully - and honestly
-- they can take the hidden UFO facts, startling as they may be."







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                  Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 03:57:20 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 09:34:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Velez


 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 12:51:58 EDT
 >Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs?

 >>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 21:14:03 -0300
 >>Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs?

 >>>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto)
 >>>Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:30:15 EDT
 >>>Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs?

 >>>>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>>Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 23:54:54 -0300
 >>>>Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs?

 >>>>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >>>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>>>Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 11:46:52 -0400
 >>>>>Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Maccabee

 ><snip>

 >>>>One of the most obvious, I would suggest, is the Valentich case.

 >>>Which could have been a hoax. In any case, who has proven what
 >>>happened, and its cause?

 >>What? He hoaxed his death?

 >Don:

 >Not necessarily, maybe just his disappearance. Please see
 >Bruce Maccabee's post, above. It has apparently occurred
 >to others. Who knows, it may remain a mystery.

Hola Young Bob, All,

You wrote:

 >In any case, unless one can prove what happened, how can >
anyone state that this was a death caused by a "UFO"?

Bob, a "UFO" by definition is an 'unidentified' flying object.
What young Valentich described he was seeing immediately before
his disappearance was some kind of flying craft - that he could
not identify.

The whole 'thing' about the Valentich case is that it involves
an "unidentified flying object" in the most literal sense of the
phrase. Nobody on this List has called the object that Valentich
had encountered a "space vehicle piloted by aliens from another
world."  All that has been stated is that young Valentich's
disappearance is directly connected to a reported encounter with
a "UFO."

Hey, maybe at age 23 Valentich wanted to stage a Burlesque
style, phony disappearance. Who knows? But, absolutely no
evidence has ever surfaced to indicate that the young man
'staged' his own death. None whatsoever.

Bob, no one and I mean _no_one_ becomes that devious over night.
Valentich would have left behind a track record of incidents and
demonstrations of behavior indicating a history or a capacity
for such a deceptive deed. That kind of guile would have been
evident long before the incident. That isn't the case though.
None of the people who have investigated the case have ever
found any such indications.

We would have known about it before now.

Unless you have some information to the contrary, ie; that he
had major gambling debts, or problems like; a history of
involvement with drugs, gangsters or any of the other kinds of
destructive behaviors and activities that would have motivated a
man in his early twenties to abandon his life, friends and
family, then you're only blowing smoke up our skirts. Argument
for arguments sake.

All indications are that Valentich was a decent, family oriented
young man with parents that loved him and a possible career as a
professional pilot to look forward to. His last words were about
an unidentified flying object that he had encountered in mid-
air. No airplane debris or body has ever been recovered.

Let me turn your question around and ask you, "How can you state
that his disappearance was _not_ connected to a UFO? (Based on
the reported facts.)

I have a feeling that is just more of your "debate for debate's
sake" and not a reflection of an opinion based on a study of the
facts of the case. Just more of your List 'smoke.'

Bob, If I want smoke blown up my ass I'll stay at home with a
pack of cigarettes and a short length of rubber hose.   ;)

Do you have anything 'new' or of value to offer us about this
tragic case? That may shed some new light on it?

Judging from the content of your posts about it, I don't think
so.

John Velez

Sign the International Petition to the United Nations
for disclosure of information pertaining to UFOs.

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition






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                          Secrecy News -- 10/23/02

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 12:20:46 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 16:13:01 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 10/23/02


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2002, Issue No. 105
October 23, 2002


**      NO NEW "LEAK" STATUTE NEEDED, SAYS ASHCROFT
**      FRUS ON US POLICY TOWARDS VIETNAM, 1967
**      CYBERCEMETERY OFFERS DEFUNCT AGENCY ARCHIVE
**      NEW CHINESE EXPORT REGULATIONS
**      CIA-NASA COLD WAR COOPERATION
**      UFO CULT RESURFACES


NO NEW "LEAK" STATUTE NEEDED, SAYS ASHCROFT

No new legislation is needed to combat unauthorized disclosures
("leaks") of classified information, according to the long-awaited
report of an interagency task force led by Attorney General John
Ashcroft.

However, strong new administrative measures to discourage leaks should
be adopted, coupled with aggressive investigation of violations and
vigorous enforcement of existing laws, the task force report said.

Two years ago, Senator Richard Shelby had proposed a new statute that
criminalized all disclosures of classified information, to supplement
the patchwork of current statutes that apply only to particular
categories of classified information.  Congress adopted the proposal
in the 2001 intelligence authorization act, but President Clinton
vetoed the legislation in November 2000 at the urging of press and
public interest organizations, who derided the measure, somewhat
inaccurately, as an "official secrets act."

Any such comprehensive anti-disclosure legislation would not
significantly enhance the government's ability to deter leaks or
identify leakers, Mr. Ashcroft concluded:

"Although there may be some benefit from a new comprehensive criminal
statute, such a statute standing alone would be insufficient in my
view to meet the problem.... Accordingly, I am not recommending that
the Executive Branch focus its attention on pursuing new legislation
at this time."

But, he said, "a wide range of administrative measures" should be
activated "to significantly improve our capacity to stem the practice
of unauthorized disclosures of classified information."

These notably would include an amended non-disclosure agreement signed
by all authorized recipients of classified information that "sets out
liquidated damages" in the event of a finding that the person leaked
information;  and a  requirement that a suspected leaker certify under
penalty of perjury that he or she had not engaged in a particular
unauthorized disclosure.

The Attorney General's Task Force Report on Unauthorized Disclosures of
Classified Information was transmitted to Congress on October 22.  A
copy of the report, obtained courtesy of Scott Armstrong, is posted
here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/dojleaks.html


FRUS ON US POLICY TOWARDS VIETNAM, 1967

The latest volume of the State Department's Foreign Relations of the
United States [FRUS] series documents the evolution of US policy
towards Vietnam in the fateful year 1967.

"The volume covers a broad range of topics and themes, the foremost of
which is the U.S. effort to explore a possible negotiated settlement
of the war," according to the preface by State Historian Marc J.
Susser.  "Another major theme of the volume is the military
intensification of the war effort to force the enemy to accept a peace
settlement."

The CIA opposed references in the new FRUS volume to US covert support
for certain electoral candidates in South Vietnam and the covert
support of a political party to support President Thieu.  But upon
appeal to the interagency High Level Panel, the relevant documentation
was included in excised form, which also provides other new
intelligence-related records.

"Though it appears to me that the war is by no means over and there are
certainly fragile elements in the overall picture," wrote William
Colby, then CIA Far East Division chief, on July 25, 1967, "it is very
clear that my Soviet or Chinese counterpart's report must exhibit
great concern over the Viet Cong's mounting problems and the steady
improvement in the ability of both the South Vietnamese and the
Americans to fight a people's war. My counterpart can quite properly
ascribe a substantial share of responsibility for both Communist
problems and anti-Communist improvement to the activities of our
Vietnam Station." (Document 254)

The full text of Foreign Relations of the United States, 1964-1968,
Volume V, Vietnam 1967, published on October 11, is posted here:

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/frus/johnsonlb/v/


CYBERCEMETERY OFFERS DEFUNCT AGENCY ARCHIVE

The University of North Texas and the US Government Printing Office
have established a new web site, nicknamed the "cybercemetery," to
provide "permanent public access to the electronic web sites and
publications of defunct US government agencies and commissions."  See:

http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/default.html

The site was reported in "Just Like the Day They Died: Texas Library
Preserves Remains of Defunct Agencies," by Christopher Lee in the
October 21 Washington Post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A56970-2002Oct20.html

A grim survey of documentary treasures around the world that have been
lost due to deliberate acts of destruction, or through incidental,
accidental or natural damage was provided in a 1996 UNESCO report.

See "Lost Memory -- Libraries and Archives Destroyed in the Twentieth
Century" here (thanks to MR):

   http://www.unesco.org/webworld/mdm/administ/pdf/LOSTMEMO.PDF


NEW CHINESE EXPORT REGULATIONS

Over the past week, the People's Republic of China has adopted a flurry
of new regulations governing exports of certain military products,
chemicals and dual-use biological materials.

"China has always attached great importance to non-proliferation export
control and continues to improve relevant legal systems on the basis
of domestic policies and through studying other countries' practices,"
according to a Ministry of Foreign Trade and Economic Cooperation.

The texts of several of the latest regulations are posted here:

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/china/sources.htm


CIA-NASA COLD WAR COOPERATION

Historical interactions between the CIA and NASA were the subject of a
paper presented by space policy expert Dwayne Day at last week's World
Space Congress.  See "CIA and NASA Linked During Cold War Space Race"
by Leonard David here:

http://www.space.com/news/wsc_cia_1014.html


UFO CULT RESURFACES

The UFO cult that is fixated on the notion that "secret government
documents" contain "the truth" about otherwise "unexplained aerial
phenomena" is, on balance, no friend of freedom of information or
government accountability.

Neverending requests for documentation on UFOs, the remains of Noah's
Ark, and similar obsessions clog up the narrow channels of public
access to government information and make a mockery of the Freedom of
Information Act.

Their latest publicity stunt, featuring no less than former White House
chief of staff John Podesta, is reported in "Clinton Aide Slams
Pentagon's UFO Secrecy" here:

http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/10/22/ufo.records/index.html


_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
   secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

Secrecy News is archived at:
   http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web: www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood@fas.org
voice:  (202) 454-4691







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                Re: FBI 'Scrambling' To Investigate UFO Over

From: Santiago Yturria <syturria@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 04:00:22 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 16:15:55 -0400
Subject: Re: FBI 'Scrambling' To Investigate UFO Over


Dear friends,

I just reviewed the video of this "unidentified object" taped by
FOX23 thanks to the posting at Rense.com. I immediately
recognized the "snake" shaped-unknown. It's just a Rod.

Also unknown of origin and still enigmatic these ultrafast
entities have been taped for a long time even by myself here in
Mexico. Now FOX caught one of their own and they are confused
and impressed.

I would suggest them to talk with my friend Jose Escamilla who
is the world's expert and an authority in the research of these
rare specimens Jose can explain them what he have lectured many
times about these strange objects named Rods.

His website:

http://www.roswellrods.com

By the way, I don't think the FBI will get one of these things
ever.


Santiago







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               Las Vegas Sun: Feds Asked To Shed Light On UFOs

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 11:14:58 +0200
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 16:17:23 -0400
Subject: Las Vegas Sun: Feds Asked To Shed Light On UFOs


Source: Las Vegas Sun


http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/lv-
other/2002/oct/22/514149828.html

Stig

***

October 22, 2002

Feds asked to shed light on UFOs

By Benjamin Grove
<grove@lasvegassun.com>
LAS VEGAS SUN

**

WASHINGTON -- The federal government is not adequately
investigating unidentified flying objects and is hiding UFO-
related documents, members of a new coalition hoping to bring a
serious tone to the subject said today.

Spearheading the Coalition for Freedom of Information is the
Sci-Fi Channel, which wants the government to unearth UFO
documents so independent scientists can review the material. The
cable network wants to further explore the line that separates
science fiction from fact, Bonnie Hammer, its president, said.

"When credible scientists conclude that 5 to 10 percent of UFOs
cannot be explained by natural or artificial causes, we think it
is worth taking a much closer look at what is clearly a real and
ubiquitous phenomena," she said.

As part of the coalition effort, veteran UFO journalist and
author Leslie Kean is filing a Freedom of Information request to
obtain documents related to a 1965 incident near Kecksburg, Pa.,
in which the Air Force retrieved an "object of unknown origin."

Conspiracy theorists, private investigators and journalists have
long tried to obtain government documentation of UFOs. Often the
target of their attention has been an Air Force base about 90
miles north of Las Vegas commonly known as Area 51. The
government acknowledges a classified installation there but does
not disclose base information based on presidential orders to
protect national security.

Kean, whose stories have appeared in major daily newspapers
nationwide, said she chose to chase information about Kecksburg
over reported Nevada incidents because Area 51 documents are
among the most secret in government.

Also appearing at the event was John Podesta, former chief of
staff to President Bill Clinton, now a lobbyist and law
professor. Podesta is lending his name to the effort because he
is a longtime advocate of freedom of information, he said.
Podesta, a fan of Fox television's "The X Files," said he was
not a UFO conspiracy theorist and added, "I've certainly never
'been taken.' " But he said the government was keeping documents
under wraps that should be made public.

"It's time to find out what the truth really is out there,"
Podesta said.

Clinton, like presidents before him, signed orders to keep Area
51 documents classified. Despite his call for openness, Podesta
declined to discuss the base.

"I'm not really at liberty to talk about what I do know about
this subject matter," he said.

Podesta earlier this year was a paid lobbyist who worked with
Nevada lawmakers on a completely different issue -- Yucca
Mountain. He helped lead their fight in Congress against the
nuclear waste dump. The state's $2.8 million anti-Yucca public
relations campaign was worth the effort because it raised
national awareness about the potential dangers of transporting
highly radioactive nuclear waste cross country to Nevada,
Podesta said after the press conference.

**

All contents copyright 2002 Las Vegas SUN, Inc.








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                 Fireball Phenomena & Associated Festival In

From: Bill Chalker <bill_c@bigpond.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 23:18:15 +1000
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 16:18:38 -0400
Subject: Fireball Phenomena & Associated Festival In


I first noticed this item on a flight from China today.

Regards,

Bill Chalker

Here is the curio ex the Bangkok Post today:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/23Oct2002_news21.html


BANG FAI PHAYA NARK FESTIVAL
More than 800 fireballs rise from Mekong

Nong Khai boosted by 400,000 visitors

The annual Bang Fai Phaya Nark festival, in which mysterious
fireballs rise from the Mekong river, proved a resounding
success this year, drawing around 400,000 visitors to Nong Khai
and injecting more than 50 million baht into the local economy.

At the height of the four-day festival on Monday night, a total
of 829 fireballs were reported to have been seen from several
riverbanks throughout the northeastern province, said the local
radio centre.

Most of the fireballs were seen by around 200,000 spectators
packed into Rattana Wapi sub-district, where 483 spheres of
light were reported to have risen from the river.

The second most popular viewing points were Phon Phisai
district, where about 100,000 people witnessed 188 fireballs,
and Bung Kan district, where a crowd of similar proportions saw
86 flaming orbs.

In other areas: 62 fireballs were witnessed by 5,000 people in
Pak Khad district; seven were seen by 3,300 in Sangkhom
district; and three were spotted by 3,000 in Bung Khong Long.

All hotels and guesthouses in Nong Khai were fully booked in
advance of the festival, said Mongkhol Sirorattanarangsi,
president of the provincial chamber commerce.

The fireball event is an unexplained phenomenon that generally
takes place on the full moon night of the 11th lunar month,
which also coincides with the end of the Buddhist Lent.







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                       Spanish Ufology Meets in Teruel

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 09:57:41 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 16:19:57 -0400
Subject: Spanish Ufology Meets in Teruel


SOURCE: Mundomisterioso.com
DATE: Tuesday, October 22, 2002

NON-COMMERCIAL SPANISH UFOLOGY MEETS AT TERUEL


On March 31, 1993 at 2:15 a.m., an impressive luminous object,
resembling a giant "star of Bethlehem" flew over the town of
Montalb=E1n (Teruel province). It wasn't the first time or the
last that this occurred, and perhaps due to the considerable UFO
case history in that part of the world, the open-mindedness of
the locals, including the town's mayor, made it possible for
Montalb=E1n to become the capital city of Spanish ufology for 3
days.

A series of lectures and workshops, officially presided by mayor
D. Felix Rubio, a provincial deputy and several councilmembers,
summoned a great number of field researchers, analysts and
witnesses who debated the situation of Spanish ufology far from
commercial circles. In attendance were some well-known names
like Salvador Freixedo and Magdalena del Amo-Freixedo, Ram=F3n
Nav=EDa, Raul N=FA=F1ez, Carlos Gonz=E1lez-Cutre and Manuel Carballal.
But some lesser-known figures were also present--individuals who
have kept their work and research far from the mass media, but
who presented positively startling work of the highest
scientific quality.

It is worth highlighting the vast compilation on "foo-fighters"
and luminous spheres of unknown origin made by Jose Manuel Moya,
one of the members of a commission entrusted with revising the
"Catalogue of Negative UFO Sightings":  After reviewing certain
incidents ascribed to "ball lightning" and natural phenomena by
skeptics, the commission reached the conclusion that these were
genuine, small UFOs of unknown provenance.

  Local ufologist Jose M. Trallero presented cases involving
encounters with humanoids, landings and even some UFO
photographs and films gleaned in Upper Aragon. Some of these
incidents, having transpired this very same year, are being
subjected to serious scrutiny. Some of the contributions to the
UFO congress were made by persons who have devoted their lives
to UFO research after having had close encounters with humanoid
entitites. Such is the case of catalonian businessman Jos=E9 Ram=F3n
Mart=EDnez who, after his encounter with an alleged alien,
developed various patents and inventions which made him a
considerable personal fortune [...].

The case involving Joan Soler is similar. After having had
several noteworthy experiences with UFOs and humanoids, and
having inherited a strong financial position, he has toured the
world collecting information on UFOs. He recently visited Chile,
investigating cattle mutilation cases associated with UFOS in
the company of Ram=F3n Navia, visiting British crop circles, or
leasing a helicopter to fly over the impression made by the UFO
which collided into Mt. Cando (Galicia).

Magdalena del Amo-Freixedo's case is different: on this
occasion, the researcher, who has broad experience as a UFO
researcher in different parts of the world, has undergone a
personal experience with an alleged non-human being, and
discussed it in public for the first time.

Rafael Casares, Carlos Gutierrez and Juan Diaz were some of the
other participants in this researchers' meeting, sponsored by
members of IEBA, who showed a spectacular UFO film recently made
in Valencia. It is worth noting that some scholars, such as Jose
Ram=F3n Martinez and Ramon Navia, presented their most recent
books in this conference. Navia's work deals with his research,
both in Spain and abroad, into cattle mutilations related to the
UFO phenomenon.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Translation (C) 2002. Scott Corrales
Institute of Hispanic Ufology
Special thanks to Guillermo Gim=E9nez.






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                               Podesta Update

From: Grant Cameron <presidentialufo@presidency.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 08:45:33 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 16:21:34 -0400
Subject: Podesta Update



http://www.msnbc.com/news/750150.asp

"Perhaps there is a hopeful possibility here in the conquest of
outer space. Interplanetary activity may well give us planetary
peace. Once we discover Martian spaceships hovering over Earth's
air-space, we will all come together.


"How dare they threaten us like this!" we shall shout, as one,
at a really United Nations!"

--Former Canadian Prime Minister Lester Pearson in a speech
receiving his Nobel Prize for Peace in 1957.








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                       Re: CUFOS Crisis - Lechevalier

From: Remy Lechevalier <remy.lechevalier@cp.finances.gouv.fr>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 15:52:56 +0200
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 16:24:09 -0400
Subject: Re: CUFOS Crisis - Lechevalier


Hello, List


 >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
 >Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 14:56:03 +0100
 >Subject: Re: CUFOS Crisis

 >I would add to my list of flourishing European magazines
 >Phenomena, the French language magazine - 36 pages, glossy
 >colour cover, professional production and well illustrated. The
 >subscription price is 22.90 euros, very close to IUR's rate of
 >$25.00 (UFO Revista is even cheaper at 16 euros). Admittedly,
 >the French magazine does have a wider language base than the
 >Swedish or Italian publications

This comes a bit late but I received the 10/21 messages just now.

Phenomena is hardly flourishing. Nominally a quarterly, its
publication has become quite unpredictable. Two years ago, they
stopped being distributed on Parisian news stands because of
cost and competition for space on the stands. The latest
issue is not distributed at all and is available only through
mail and subscription. Much as I disagreed with the overall
position of the magazine, I think it will be a substantial loss
if the magazine had to cease publication.

The other important French UFO magazine, Lumi=E8res dans la Nuit
is not doing much better. Available only through subscription,
it must be around 1000 subscribers if I remember well (figures
given by Gildas Bourdais at an UFO lecture, a while ago : he
will correct me if I'm wrong).


Best Regards

Remy Lechevalier








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                Re: Rusty's 'Angel Hair' Lab Report - Hebert

From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 09:08:05 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 16:25:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Rusty's 'Angel Hair' Lab Report - Hebert


 >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 17:41:39 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Rusty's 'Angel Hair' Lab Report

 >Amy, List, Dick, Larry, Frank, EBK
 >Yes, I agree. My sample was composed of the same stuff. I never
 >stated that the raw materials that combine to make angel hair
 >are other-worldly. Nor do I think angel hair is the product of
 >chemical trails or anything along those lines.

Ed, did you send your sample of "angel hair" for analysis to
Frontier Analysis, Ltd. or any other lab?

If so, may I see the lab report?  And, if so, may I post the
report in the Vanguard Archives for others to review?

In my studies, I found that many materials needed for research
are not always available on the internet so I started the
Vanguard Research Archives so that others may be able to access
these materials more easily.

The Vanguard Archives is for direct, unaltered presentation of
materials and information for research purposes.  Comments,
conclusions, papers, etc. will be posted at other sites as the
Archives is for reference only.

I am researching the literature available on "angel hair" and
will get back with you at a later date to continue our
discussion.

Thanks,

Amy








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               Sci Fi Channel Drive For Investigation Of UFOs

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 17:12:48 +0200
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 16:27:59 -0400
Subject: Sci Fi Channel Drive For Investigation Of UFOs


Source: KABC-TV, Los Angeles - ABC Network

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/news/102202_nw_ufo.html

Stig

***

A Call for Investigation of UFOs

**

WASHINGTON _ The SciFi Channel is spearheading a drive for a
government investigation into unidentified flying objects.

Channel President Bonnie Hammer says scientists conclude that up
to ten percent of UFO reports can't be explained by natural or
artificial causes. The SciFi Channel is pushing for the
declassification of government information through the Freedom
of Information Act, as well as research into the phenomenon.

Georgetown University law professor and science fiction fan John
Podesta says Americans want to know what information the
government has on U-F-O's. The former White House Chief of Staff
says the public can handle whatever information is out there.

John Podesta, visiting professor at Georgetown University law
school and a White House chief of staff in the Clinton
administration, at news conference Podesta says an official
investigation is warranted.

**

Copyright =A9 2002 KABC-TV and the Associated Press. All rights
reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast,
rewritten, or redistributed.

Last Updated: Oct 22, 2002

Wednesday, October 23, 2002

**

Copyright =A92002 ABC Inc., KABC-TV Inc.
Terms of Service, Privacy Policy and Internet Safety Information for this
site.








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                          Re: CUFOS Crisis - Young

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 11:35:31 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 16:29:23 -0400
Subject: Re: CUFOS Crisis - Young


 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >To: <UFOupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: CUFOS Crisis
 >Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 12:51:46 -0500

 >>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 22:45:05 +0100
 >>Subject: Re: CUFOS Crisis

 >A recent fund-raising letter by CSICOP Executive Director Barry
 >Karr states, "CSICOP and Skeptical Inquirer hare [sic]
 >struggling with current finances like never before in their
 >history," and goes on in that vein for a number of
 >characteristically purple paragraphs.

 >Clearly, interest in scientific anomalies - even from a hostile
 >perspective such as CSICOP's - is down.

Jerry:

No, in CSICOP's case the stock market, and thus their endowment
and donations are down. In CUFOS's case the income has dropped
as subscriptions have dropped.


Clear skies,

Bob Young

"Any facts which, when included in the argument, give the
desired results, are fair facts for the argument". - - Fairfax's
Law







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                 Brazilian Found Wandering In Chilean Desert

From: Thiago Luiz Ticchetti <thiagolt@opendf.com.br>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 14:28:04 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 16:39:57 -0400
Subject: Brazilian Found Wandering In Chilean Desert


Correio do Povo Newspaper - Rio Grande do Sul - Brazil

October 23rd, 2002

SANTIAGO, CHILE -- The discovery, in the Atacama Desert, in
Northern Chile, of a hungry and dehydrated Brazilian, is
puzzling Chilean authorities.

An investigation began on Tuesday to determinate how the young
man, named Marivaldo Amorinho de Souza, 24 years, got there.

Marivaldo, who is from Bahia State in Northeast Brazil, covered
a big part of Brazil and other South-American territories to get
to the desert, where he was found by police officers.

Marivaldo was taken to a police station in Huara, 1,800 kilometres
from San Tiago, Chile's capital.

He could only remember his name, that he is from Itabuna - a
city of Bahia - and that he had been walking in the Atacama
Desert for a week, without food or water.

Marivaldo was in shock and authorities could not get any more
information.

Nobody knows how the Brazilian get there...


Thiago Luiz Ticchetti
EBE-ET
Brasilia/DF
Brasil







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                    Helping CUFOS A La 'Lazy-Man' Method

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 12:39:51 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 16:42:32 -0400
Subject: Helping CUFOS A La 'Lazy-Man' Method


Hi All,

I have seen several posts recommending that CUFOS set up
online credit card payments. It would be more convenient
for those wishing to help and I'm sure they'd pick up a lot
more $ if folks could pay from the comfort of home.

But wait... you can! Where there is a will there is always a
way.

It turns out that you can make a credit/debit card donation if
you wish... only it takes a wee bit more effort. First, go to:

http://www.cufos.org/assoc.html

1. Download the PDF copy of the 'Associates application form.'
2. Open the document in Adobe Acrobat (free from Adobe.com)
3. Type in the info requested.
4. Save the completed form as a .jpg file.
5. Attach it to an e-mail and send it to:

infocenter@cufos.org

Wham, bam thank you maam, it's done and as easy as that. And all
from the computer in your home or office. No muss, no fuss.

Pitch in and help CUFOS, send them your moola via e-mail and do
it today.


Regards to all,

John Velez
Sign the International Petition to the United Nations
for disclosure of information pertaining to UFOs.

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition








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                               My Scoop Marks

From: Carey Sullins <careysullins@netzero.net>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 09:10:10 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 17:21:27 -0400
Subject: My Scoop Marks


Hi: I'm Carey Sullins born 1954

I had many abductions I didn't admit to for a long time. I got
two scoop marks about 1965 where as most have one scoop I asked
for them to take another because I wanted some proof of
interaction. My mom took me to a doctor who gave me some medical
soap and told me to scrub it daily for 5 minutes till it healed
, which I did, screaming the whole time everytime :-)

I layered my thoughts as to why I wanted them to take another
scoop thinking if I did so they wouldn't go all the way to the
real reason (of wanting proof of interaction, also I wanted
proof it was real and not a dream).

My scoop marks healed up nicely and only in full sunlight can ya
make out even slight circles.

I kept it to myself figuring that if I ever met an abductee with
a scoop mark like mine then, only then would I admit to being a
abductee myself.

I think it was in 94 that I went to Roswell just feeling there
was a reason, I met Darrel Sims there and was a bit distrubed
when he raised his pants leg and showed me his scoop mark, along
with all the information he spouted off I was more than a bit
distrubed.

My Dad's mother was half? or a quarter Cherokee, Darrel pointed
out that Cheorkee linage is often abducteed.... he also hit
right on with many things.

I always kinda liked the "screen saver" memories, having enough
to deal with when I was young, but I wouldn't mind being rid of
them now.

The closest I've seen a flying saucer is about half a block
away, before that I only suspected from the movement of some
lights in the sky they must be UFO's.

A friend has taken a photograph class and at Darrel's
encouragement I'm going to shave the spot on my leg and see if
we can get some photos that will show the circles...

I'm thinking that perhaps no one else went through the pain to
heal their scoop marks and perhaps with some special lighting we
can get them to show up or show something different than the
scoop marks that have and were left alone.

I think the entity took the second scoop just to shut me up or
shut up my mind as the case may be, so I would go back "under"?

I do remember the entity asking why I wanted a second scoop
taken, and my answer was in case you messed up the first one, or
it was somehow messed up then you wouldn't have to take another
later,,, and under that thought my reason was to perhaps save
someone else from having to be abducted and scooped, (as if)....
I'm pretty sure I didn't reveal my real reason of wanting proof
of interaction.

That day when I woke the first thing I did was pull back the
sheets and look at my leg and sure enough there were two scoop
marks... I was like MOM come look... what is this... what caused
this? Likewise I wanted some answer from the doctor but he
didn't have one... I tried to give him some suggestions like
could it be some STD (haven't had sex yet), wasn't going to say
aliens did it on a space ship, I kept after him, saying I didn't
have them when I went to sleep, and when I woke they are
there,,, the best he could offer was it was something from
sleeping with my dog (another of my suggestions).

I have these same dreams when abducted usually of a rope and
board bridge going through several trees to a unusually place,
sometimes my Dad was with me... also had many flying dreams.

  I had the tall hooded slinder shadow person by my closet many
times and I finally came to realize it was going to happen when
he was there, no prayers, hymns, or reading the Bible did any
good except to make me feel better and I finally would just sing
the song in my head 'Jesus loves the little children" when it
was going to happen... I don't have clear memories of more than
the shadow figure, he/she/it must be who helps ya go under.

I kinda remember seening some big dog looking animal at the
window a few times, somewhat remember little people, mostly I
think I was happy to have screen saver memories and just not
have to face up to it all at the time.

When I saw the flying saucer pretty close in 1975 in Houston I
was like "well, now I know" and I didn't really think much more
about it.

:-) maybe being an abductee is like doing extra credit work, if
earth is a school (a mystery school), it makes some sense there
could be ways to get extra credits :-)

I read something the other day online that says one out of 40
people are abducted... I guess screen memories work really good
for most people :-)

I just think they work overtime for me, I have a hard time
remembering TV shows and Movies about aliens and UFO's until
reminded, once I'm on the subject I can remember things, but
normally it's a blank... perhaps UFO's/Aliens are not really
important... or it's just that seeming powerless ya welcome
screen saver memories.... and no doubt the public opinion
usually helps ya shut up so ya can fit in or try to.

and with that I shut up for now



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                          Filer's Files #43 - 2002

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 12:50:41 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 17:41:11 -0400
Subject: Filer's Files #43 - 2002


FILER'S FILES #43 - 2002, MUFON Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer, Director Mutual UFO Network Eastern
October 23, 2002, Majorstar@aol.com
Webmaster: Chuck Warren
http://www.filersfiles-ufo.com


The purpose of these files is to report the UFO eyewitness and
photo/video evidence that occurs on a daily basis around the
world and in space. Features this week are: SCI FI Channel
Disclosure, Cylinder UFO seen in New York, Georgia and space,
New York cylinder, spear, and lights, Pennsylvania flying
triangle, Florida moving white specks, Ohio large flying
octagon, Illinois throbbing chevron, Minnesota flying triangle,
Nevada very bright light, California two disks, Alaska super
sized bird, Canadian dark shape around bright light, Brazil
orange UFOs, England oval shaped UFO, and Spain did somebody see
a UFO? UFO VIDEOTAPED IN GEORGIA, NEW YORK AND SPACE

TICONDEROGA -- Frank a New York State Employee who wishes to
remain anonymous has sent videos of a cylinder shaped UFO that
was videotaped in March of 1997, in La Grange, Georgia. Frank
videotaped a similar cylinder shaped UFO on July 2, 1998, over a
church in Ticonderoga, NY. Frank says, "He saw the same object
being videotaped from the Space Shuttle in orbit 47, on October
11, 2002. Dr. Bruce Maccabee Ph.D. has verified that the two
ground based photos were genuine. The STS 112 video taken by the
Atlantis Space Shuttle cameras is still under analysis. The
video shows a cylinder shaped light that appears to launch from
a formation of clouds above Atlantic Ocean near the coast of
Africa at 8:29 PM. The object quickly moves towards space and
the limb of Earth is observed. The light is in focus and appears
to be a UFO/spaceship like cylinder light similar in shape to
the other UFOs. Dome shaped lights appear to come together in t!
he video. Thanks to John Thompson and Frank.

If they do not appear at the top of this e-mail, see photos at:

http://www.nationalufocenter.com/files/2002/index.php

Filer's Files UFO CENTER PHOTOS

UFO DISCLOSURE CLINTON'S CHIEF OF STAFF
JOHN PODESTA

WASHINGTON -- SCI FI Channel is supporting a new effort to gain
release of secret government records on unidentified aerial
phenomena. John Podesta, former Clinton White House Chief of
Staff, spoke in an attempt to gain release of secret government
UFO records. He cited the importance to the public of
declassifying government UFO records. Clinton's Science Advisor
Dr. John Gibbons, initiated an investigation by the USAF into
the crash of an unknown object at Roswell, New Mexico. Clinton's
first CIA Director James Woolsey in 1993 also green-lighted a
new CIA investigation into UFOs. Clinton himself asked his good
friend Webster Hubbell to find out the truth about UFOs. Hillary
Clinton, also very interested in the UFO phenomena, helped
Laurance Rockefeller edit a letter to President Clinton on UFOs,
and was briefed on the UFO subject by Rockefeller at the
Rockefeller ranch during the President's 1995 vacation there.
The Coalition for Freedom of Information (C! FI) is requesting
for documents involving Project Moon Dust and Operation Blue
Fly, clandestine operations reported to have existed decades ago
to investigate UFOs and retrieve objects of unknown origins. The
Podesta statement is part of an announcement by the SCI FI
Channel in support of a new effort to gain release of secret
government records. The big announcement was made at the
National Press Club in Washington on October 22, 2002. Thanks to
Grant Cameron http://www.presidentialufo.com


ROPER POLL INDICATES PUBLIC INTEREST IN UFOs

NEW YORK -- SCI FI Channel says a just released Roper national
opinion poll found that 72% of Americans believe the government
is not telling the public everything it knows about UFO activity
and 68% think the government knows more about extraterrestrial
life than it is letting on. Americans are not only suspending
their disbelief at the movies, but they are also suspending it
in the real world. Sponsored by SCI FI Channel, the poll
revealed that men consistently more than women think such
information should be shared with the public. Also, the younger
you are the stronger your belief that the government is
withholding information about UFOs and extraterrestrial life.
According to the poll, 80% of 18-24 year olds, 75% of 25-34 year
olds, and 73% of 35-49 year olds say that the government is
hiding information about UFOs. "There is a reason why six of the
top 10 grossing motion pictures probe the topic of science
fiction," said Bonnie Hammer, SCI FI Channel's President.
"People are curious, intrigued by the possibility of other life
forms, and want to know more." Hammer is currently developing
Steven Spielberg's 20-hour epic science" fiction miniseries
TAKEN. Scheduled to premiere in December on SCI FI Channel,
TAKEN is a sweeping drama that weaves together the lives of
three families over four generations and their crucial roles in
the history of the UFO phenomenon.

Most Americans say that the government does not share enough
information with the public in general (55%) and that by and
large when national security is not at risk, the US government
should not withhold information about UFO sightings (60%) and
potential encounters with extraterrestrial life (58%). This
study was conducted by Roper ASW among a representative sample
of 1,021 adults ages 18 and over. The telephone interviews were
conducted from August 23rd through August 25th, 2002. The margin
of error for the total sample is +/- 3%. Thanks to the SCI FI
Channel. [ http://www.scifi.com/ ]Sci.Fi.com

ASTRONAUT NEIL ARMSTRONG SAYS "THERE IS LIFE IN SPACE"

CAPE CANAVERAL -- Astronaut Neil Armstrong says, "Life is out
there somewhere." The first human to set foot on a place beyond
Earth found an airless, waterless, lifeless moon. Nevertheless,
Neil Armstrong is convinced life thrives elsewhere in the
cosmos. "We have no proof," said Armstrong, who stepped onto the
moon 30 years ago. "But if we extrapolate, based on the best
information we have available to us, we have to come to the
conclusion that ... other life probably exists out there and
perhaps in many places." Two million years after intelligent
life emerged on Earth, humans finally have arrived at the moment
when science and technology are making possible a systematic
search for other life in the universe. During the next 100
years, researchers armed with powerful telescopes, computers and
robots could find proof of past or present microbial life in our
solar system. And during the next 1,000 years, scientists say,
it's no longer pure fantasy to! think that the human race could
discover and perhaps contact intelligent civilizations on
distant worlds. "This is really an incredible time to be living
because we've gone from the idea that we're alone on this nice
little planet to the idea that anything is possible," said Lou
Allamandola, a chemist at NASA's Ames Research Center in
Mountain View, California.  After all, there are 400 billion
stars in the Milky Way galaxy and an estimated half-trillion
galaxies in the universe. "We know there are planets going
around other stars, and we know it's likely that some of those
planets have the right conditions for life," said Dan Werthimer,
a research physicist at the University of California at
Berkeley. "So it would be really bizarre if we were the only
ones. It's much more likely that the universe is teeming with
life." If that's the case, the discovery would revolutionize our
perception of who we are, where we came from and what our place
is in the cosmos," snip Thanks to the Detroit News 21/10/2.

NEW YORK RECTANGLE VIDEO TAPED ALBANY

FOX TV News reported on October 21, 2002, that a spear shaped
object was caught on film passing above Albany International
Airport during daylight hours as a commercial aircraft landed at
the airport. The spear shaped object was moving at high speed
and could be mistaken for a missile, but none was known to have
crashed. The FBI is attempting to determine the cause of the
video sighting. http://www.fox23news.com

WATERTOWN -- The witness says, "My friend and I were going 4
wheeling on October 5, 2002, when we saw a flying rectangular
shape that slowly came to a stop at 7:20 PM. When we stopped, we
noticed, it had very bright lights that were greenish blue,
white, and red. Suddenly the object made a sharp 180 degree turn
and headed directly toward us. It flew right above us, and it
started to shine its light on us. My girl friend got really
scared, she told me to go as fast as I could and drive into the
garage. Instead I went up my driveway, when we noticed that the
object had turned another 90 degrees and was again beginning to
follow us. So my friend and I got off the 4 wheeler and ran to
get my Mom and brother. By this time the object picked up speed
and shot across the sky. I begged my friend to get back on the 4
wheeler and when she finally did we went to the other side of my
house to see where the object went. My friend got really scared
and g! ot off the 4 wheeler and ran in the house. As I was
parking the 4 wheeler I noticed the lights again. so I called
for my friend, but she did not come out. As I watched it began
to disappear, and as it moved farther away, it just vanished.
There was no noise. STATEN ISLAND -- My father was driving, and
I pointed out an egg shaped UFO flying relatively low on October
1, 2002. It was a lot larger than a plane moving around slowly
in what seemed like circular motions. We watched the UFO as we
drove and when it went out of site behind tree cover we rushed
home to get our binoculars. We then headed to Gateway Park to
try an observe it again, but it had gone. There were either one
or two white lights on the egg shaped object. Peter Davenport
receives numerous reports of blimps from the NYC area that may
be responsible for the report.

STATEN ISLAND -- I reside in the Emerson Hill area of Staten
Island and on the evening of October 1, 2002, 7:45 PM myself and
a good friend were in our backyard watching a US fighter jet
patrolling the airspace above New York City. This was the first
game of the Yankee Playoff Baseball series with Anaheim. On it's
first pass it made a loop coming from over the harbor, then just
passed the Verranzano Bridge and looped back around the bridge
and then back over the harbor, over Brooklyn, creating a circle
pattern that was quite obvious. The first and second passes were
normal, but on the third pass we saw something that wasn't
normal. I said to my friend, "Do you see that green light
following that fighter jet?" he responded ," Yeah, it looks like
a bright green star!" We both saw a bright green star following
directly behind this fighter jet, only by a short distance, but
to the lower left hand side of it, and every move the jet made,
this thing was right the! re with it, flying almost
effortlessly. We only heard the engine sound from the one jet.
The lights on the jet were blinking white and red on top and had
visible port and starboard wing lights. The object that was
tailing it, was a bright green light only. It followed the jet
as it turned back towards the Verranzano and on the fighter's
4th pass, the light was gone.MANHATTAN -- It was about 11:20 PM
on October 1, 2002, I had just finished a recording session and
I needed a little fresh air so I went on top of the roof to
relax received a call from a friend and saw three flying objects
that changed shapes. At about 11:18 PM, I looked up at the GE
building and at first glance it looked like it was 3 very large
black birds which seem to glide over the water tower. I noticed
the objects started to change shapes. Then I noticed them lift
up to sky in what seemed to be a sequence of shapes. I noticed
the objects were flying just above Trump Towers on 56th in a
sequence of patterns, that included a circle and a triangle. At
this point the lights got brighter. After 3 minutes they dimmed
and flew in a straight line towards Central Park and finished.
Thanks to Peter Davenport [ http://www.ufocenter.com/ ]NUFORC

PENNSYLVANIA FLYING TRIANGLEPLYMOUTH MEETING -- The witness
reports, "I was outside having a cigarette on October 5, 2002,
and I was looking up at the sky and saw a flying triangle shaped
lights blinking radically. It was in no way an airplane light. "
I passed it but off as nothing. Then to my surprise at 7:40 PM,
there were more coming very fast and very close to each other
with odd light patterns. Then I new something was not right, so
I went inside to grab my family, and they confirmed what I saw.
We tried to find a logical explanation for these craft, but
could not. This was very odd and I would like to know what they
were? I have never seen an Air Force plane look like that!
Thanks to Peter Davenport [ http://www.ufocenter.com/ ]NUFORC

FLORIDA WHITE SPECKS MOVING BACK AND FORTHBOCA RATON -- NUFORC
reports the witnesses were lying down in the truck bed on
October 12, 2002, getting ready to see a movie at 8:10 PM. We
looked up and saw plenty of stars, but they started to move.
They would all stop, and just a few would move up, down, left,
and right. They were so high up, that they were just a speck of
light but some were brighter than others. We saw about 40 to 50
of these all on the eastern side of the moon. Some were near the
moon others farther away. After the movie, midnight, we only saw
2 or 3 moving around. We didn't know if there was more then,
because the stars were visible.

OHIO LARGE OCTAGON BLUE LIGHTS ON RIM RED CENTER CINCINNATI -- I
am reporting this for my friend, who says that on October 10,
2002, about 8:30 PM he was on his way home from work in downtown
Cincinnati, when a woman asked him if he saw the UFO? He then
looked up in the sky and saw an object shaped like an octagonal
stop sign, that had a red light in the center and blue lights on
the rim. One of the rims was extended off the object, which he
saw move into place, so the object was then symmetrical. He
said, "It was fairly high up in the sky with haze around it,
making the lights 'dim' or not as bright." It was large, the
size of a dinner plate in scale to his extended hand. He said,
"There were multiple witnesses, and the neighbors from his
apartment building were told and they went out and saw it as
well." Thanks to Peter Davenport [ http://www.ufocenter.com/
]NUFORC

MINNESOTA FLYING TRIANGLE SAVAGE -- The witness reports, he
observed a delta-shaped object in clear skies at 1:22 AM on
October 14, 2002. The object had three soft white lights at the
vertices which shone downward. The delta shaped object was about
40 feet in width and there were no other discernible lights or
characteristics. It was flying southwesterly at 150 knots, at
1500 feet AGL. It made no sound even though the witness was
close enough to hear if it had jet engines. It flew a straight
and level course for about 5 seconds, then rolled right to a 45
degree angle which caused the downward lights to shine brighter.
After a second, the object then rolled left back to a straight
and level position. There was a dark sky with a few visible
stars. This object did not conform to any recognizable aircraft
lighting or flight patterns and was far too low for a normal
approach to the airport. Thanks to Peter Davenport.

ILLINOIS THROBBING CHEVRON PULSATING LIGHTS FOREST PARK --
Coming home from bowling on October 5, 2002, at 2:38 AM, the
witness noticed an unusual shadowy effect upon the house next to
his. The witness states, "The electronic devices in my vehicle
were acting mysteriously as I stood and stared with disbelief as
the craft revealed itself in its full glory." It generated a
strong magnetic field as it hovered 250 to 400 feet" above me.
It was obscured by a huge cloud, but the object had to be at
least the size of an aircraft carrier with multiple rows of
lights. There were 12 to 15 rows of lights that ranged in color
from a pale yellow all the way up to a deep dark purple. The
lights pulsed in a unique symmetrical way, yet it seemed to
follow some sort of code. I felt as though it was communicating
with my inner soul and I was not afraid. I felt at peace with
the universe. The alien craft had an unusual disproportionate
wedge shape when it originally uncloaked and after about 10-12
seconds, a! dditional micro-pods began appearing as though
attached to its starboard and aft sides. The following day I had
minor vomiting spells. Thanks to Peter Davenport [
http://www.ufocenter.com/ ]NUFORC

NEVADA VERY BRIGHT LIGHTHOLLISTER -- The witness was driving
down Route 93 towards Jackpot at around 8 PM on October 14,
2002, when he saw a very bright light almost hovering in the
western sky. The light was shining down from what appeared to be
several miles up. There was a plume of white trailing the light
and it was going a little up, not down as a meteor would. The
light was very large and then suddenly it went out. The sparkly
plume then died out something like a firework would when it's at
the end of the display. Then it was gone completely. Editor's
Note: The witness likely observed a missile launch from
Vandenberg AFB.

CALIFORNIA TWO DISK UFO's PALMDALE -- The witness claims to have
seen two UFO's in the sky at 2:00 PM on Thursday, October 3,
2002. He states, "I was painting a patio and I looked up and saw
one UFO that looked like a silver saucer. I know it was spinning
because the sun was reflecting on it making it flicker while it
was spinning around. It moved as fast as lighting. I saw the
second one and when one moved the other one followed. They both
took off as fast as lightening straight up and were gone.

MURPHYS -- This object appeared to be a VERY LARGE meteor but it
was wider and moved very slowly in an upward direction at 7:05
PM. I asked my husband to join me outside and at that time it
broke off in half and the top part continued on for another 10
seconds or so eventually dissipating. A blue "trail" could then
be seen in the dark sky. Editor' Note: A missile was launched
from Vandenberg Air Force Base on October 14, 2002, caused many
UFO reports throughout the Western States. Reports described a
meteor like object moving slowly eventually breaking apart
leaving a blue streak. All though witnesses may not know the
identity of an object they are often fairly accurate in their
descriptions. Thanks to Peter Davenport [
http://www.ufocenter.com/ ]NUFORC CANADA DARK SHAPE AROUND
LIGHTVICTORIA, BC -- Bright white light with black outline
around it moving soundlessly and slowly from the north banking
east and disappearing upward on October 10, 2002, at 2:38 AM.
Using binoculars I could see a dark shape visible around white
light that disappeared into the sky rather than flew away. It
was not a satellite, meteor or shooting star. Those don't change
direction and there were no flashing lights like a plane and it
flew directly overhead.

ALASKA A SUPER-SIZED BIRDANCHORAGE DAILY NEWS reports that, "A
giant winged creature, like something out of Jurassic Park, has
reportedly been sighted several times in Southwest Alaska in
recent weeks. Villagers in Togiak and Manokotak say they have
seen a huge bird that's much bigger than anything they have seen
before. A pilot says he spotted the creature while flying
passengers to Manokotak last week. He calculated that its
wingspan matched the length of a wing on his Cessna 207a
wingspan of 35 feet, ten inches. Even one wing is longer than
that. Other people have put the wingspan in a fifteen foot
range. Scientists aren't sure what to make of the reports. No
one doubts that people in the region west of Dillingham have
seen a very large raptor-like bird. But biologists and other
people familiar with big Alaska birds say they're skeptical it's
that big. Biologists felt the sightings could be of a Steller's
sea eagle, a species native to northeast Asia and one of! the
world's largest eagles. It's about 50 percent bigger than a bald
eagle. Thanks to Peter Porco, October 15, 2002.

ORANGE UFOs SIGHTED IN SOUTHERN BRAZILFLORIANOPOLIS -- "During
the last two weeks, ten people have seen three UFOs with the
same characteristics" over the capital of Brazil's southern
state of Santa Catarina, and its sister city across the strait,
Sao Jose. "The UFOs are orange. They are enveloped in an aura of
yellowish light. Each time they were signaled, the UFOs
retreated in the direction (east) of the beach and then out into
the skies over the South Atlantic." "Two of the three UFOs
spotted were witnessed by former (Brazilian) military
personnel." "We would like to know if others in the UFO
community here in Brazil or overseas have seen orange lights
similar to those we have seen here." Florianopolis is located on
a small island just offshore from the Brazilian mainland about
560 kilometers (350 miles) south of Rio de Janeiro. (Muito
obrigado a Rafael Vidal Eleuterio e Ufologia Brasileira por eso
caso.) (Editor's Note: Once again, the UFOs are visiting an
ancient site. Ap! proximately 35 kilometers (22 miles) north of
Florianopolis is Praia do Santinho. In the jungle-covered hills
overlooking the beach are mysterious petroglyphs. Some
occultists believe that these petroglyphs are left over from the
lost continent of Atlantis.) Thanks to UFO ROUNDUP Volume 7
Number 42 , October 15, 2002, Editor: Joseph Trainor

PERUVIANS SEEK DISCOVERY AND PROFIT IN UFOs LIMA -- The Herald
The Peruvian government's interest in UFOs goes back decades,
and there is archaeological evidence that ancient cultures were
also hooked on otherworldly phenomena. Miles-long geometric
designs in the desert of Nazca, south of Lima, or a winged god
in the north are evidence for Chamorro that past cultures not
only mastered science and math, but had an inkling that space
might hold more than the sun and moon. In Chilca, 40 miles south
of Lima on the Pacific coast, Mayor Numa Rueda is hoping to
capitalize on the town's fame as one of the hottest spots for
UFO sightings. ''There is big money in sightings,'' Rueda said.
"We can become the next Roswell [N.M.].'' Looking to the heavens
may be Chilca's best bet for dealing with the very worldly
problems of economic decay and poverty. The town's annual budget
is $100,000, and Rueda says most of Chilca's 18,000 residents
are impoverished and depend on a three-month beach season to
make ends ! meet.

Chilca's mayor would like Bill Owen, his counterpart in Roswell
-- home to the International UFO Museum, New Mexico's most-
visited tourist attraction -- to come to Peru and set up a
sister-city relationship. ''Roswell has a museum, and there's
even a TV show,'' Rueda said wistfully. ``If we were to link up,
we could develop a UFO tourist circuit.'' Like many people in
Chilca, Rueda says he has seen unidentified objects in the skies
above his town. Rueda says, In 1998, he was chatting when a
large, boomerang-shaped object appeared over a ridge that juts
into the sea just beyond Chilca. He says the UFO moved slowly
and made no noise. Six similarly shaped smaller objects were
nearby. ''The mother ship and the six other vehicles hovered for
a few minutes and then headed out to sea,'' Rueda said. ``I had
always heard about UFOs, but this was my first sighting. For me
it was undeniable proof that there is life outside our planet.''
Chilca also has its own tiny piece of ancient UFO history. In
the town's one-room museum, Rueda keeps a minuscule swath of
Incan textile wrapped in brown paper for safekeeping. The
textile depicts an oddly shaped non-human figure with antennas.
Rueda says the figure is similar to the extraterrestrial being
supposedly found in Roswell in 1947 and which forms the core of
UFO attractions that put the town on the map. ''This proves that
we are not the first people to sight UFOs here. The ancient
Peruvians who inhabited Chilca also had sights and possibly
contact,'' he said. Chamorro says sightings form part of Peru's
culture, and even the government has gotten in the act on and
off over the years. In 1955, Carlos Paz founded Peru's Institute
for Inter-Planetary Relations to study UFOs. Paz is a mythical
figure in the international UFO community and assumed the role
of quasi-diplomat from Peru to civilizations beyond the solar
system. Although he died in ! 1999, his daughter, Rose Marie,
continues at the helm. '' Chamorro said. In Peru, he said, if
people see a UFO they kick back and drink a beer. Even better,
Chamorro says, they hope the ship lands and pays for the beer.
Thanks to. Scott Corrales, Translation (C) 2002, Institute of
Hispanic Ufology and Lucien O. Chauvin of the Lima Herald

ENGLAND OVAL SHAPED UFO SEEN NEAR AIRPORTNEWCASTLE UPON TYNE --
The witness reports seeing an oval shaped craft that swayed and
suddenly dropped, then made of circular motions, with the
colored lights circling it in no particular sequence on October
14, 2002. It stayed in the same place for at least 30 minutes
starting at 8:00 PM. It was near the Newcastle airport and
planes frequently crossed over, so we knew it wasn't an
airplane. It flashed white, red, orange and blue in no
particular sequence, but it looked like the colors were circling
the object with a red circle around it like an aura. Then after
about 30 minutes it started to sway from side to side. Then it
dropped at high speed, and started to sway, then ten minutes
later it circled in the sky. My friend got her binoculars and we
could see it had four dots of light around it and on the oval
itself in zigzag patterns. It had a slight red trail behind it.
One hour into the sighting it got smaller and smaller in! ten
minutes and disappeared.

SPAIN DID SOMEONE SEE A BLUE UFO? BARCELONA -- Our experience
occurred on Saturday, October 12, between 20:30 and 21:00 hours
on National Highway 340 in the vicinity of Molins de Rei. As we
drove in our car toward Barcelona, all of the lights on the
highway turned off at the same time as the horizon became filled
with a strange blue light. One-second later, the lights came on
again and two smaller flashes occurred, having the same shade of
blue. We thought it was an explosion and even phoned the police,
but no explanation was forthcoming. Translation (C) 2002, IHU.
Special thanks to Jordi Ardanuy. Pablo and Rosa Prez--Barcelona

BALI AUSTRALIA TERROR On October 20, 2002, Australia came to a
stand still as Australians were asked to remember the dead and
missing from the Bali bombing attack. May the Nation stand
strong in the face of terror. Like the US, Australia has
suffered a tragedy due to terrorism. We send our sympathy to the
families of those who perished.

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NASA, AND IT'S SPACE ENCOUNTERS Jeff Challender has released the
new video "What Is the Truth?". The second video examining NASA
and its space encounters with 102 anomalous objects. These
events were culled from 1400+ hours raw footage of ten live
Shuttle flight broadcasts between Oct. 2000 and April 2002. VHS
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necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON viewpoint. Send your letters to
Majorstar@aol.com. Sending mail automatically grants permission
for us to publish and use your name. Please state if you wish to
keep your name, address, or story confidential. CAUTION, MOST OF
THESE ARE INITIAL REPORTS AND REQUIRE FURTHER INVESTIGATION.

Regards, George Filer  [ http://www.filersfiles-ufo.com









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   Oct > Oct 23

                     Re: Sci Fi News Conference - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 15:23:46 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 17:46:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Sci Fi News Conference - Velez


 >From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 03:09:49 -0400
 >Subject: Sci Fi News Conference

 >presidentialufo@canada.com wrote:

 >>Larry

 >>I understand you are attending the news conference
 >>tomorrow.

 >>If you take notes or post anything can you be sure to
 >>send me a copy.

 >>I ran a story on Podesta's role, and have received
 >>almost 11,000 hits on my web sites today.

 >>I would like to post a timely update for all my new
 >>friends.

 >>Grant

 >>The Presidents UFO Story
 >>www.presidentialufo.com

 >Okay, Grant, here's your little pound of flesh:

 >A (Public) Moment for UFOtruth: SciFi v. SciLie
 >By
 >Larry W. Bryant

<snip>

 >"The American people have proved that they can take shocking situations
 >. . . without collapsing in fear. If prepared carefully - and honestly
 >-- they can take the hidden UFO facts, startling as they may be."

Hello All,

Eureka! This new campaign sounds like something I can get
behind. I have a popular website that gets a respectable amount
of traffic. I also appear regularly on EBK's 'Strange Days...
Indeed' that has its own respectable following.

How can I pitch in to help?

Where do I sign up?

Who do I contact/talk to?

John Velez
Webmaster, Abduction Information Center, contributing editor, SDI

Sign the International Petition to the United Nations
for disclosure of information pertaining to UFOs.

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   Oct > Oct 23

                       UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 43

From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 20:34:50 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 17:48:01 -0400
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 43


Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor.

<Masinaigan@aol.com>
==========================

       UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 7, Number 43
October 22, 2002
Editor: Joseph Trainor

http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/


ARGENTINA PROBES HUMAN
MUTILATION CASE

       Police in Argentina are investigating a strange case
in the city of Cordoba, which some people are calling a
"human mutilation."
       "An elderly woman was found dead and mutilated in
her dwelling in Cordoba," a city 300 kilometers (180
miles) west-northwest of Buenos Aires, the national
capital, "and the local police are trying to establish
why two dead dogs were found beside the cadaver."
       "According to sources, police personnel accompanied
by the deceased's nephew, entered the dwelling at Calle
Amberes No. 8775 (street) in the barrio Arguello
(neighborhood) to the west of the city of Cordoba and
found the owner, 72-year-old Sra. Sara Margarita Priano,
dead on the floor."
       "Sources indicated that the (woman's) body was
missing part of the torso, hip and skull, and that two
dead dogs lay beside it."
       "The judicial police is seeking to establish the
time and the cause of death, as well as the reason behind
the mutilations.  Researchers--following the directions
of the prosecutor's office--are trying to ascertain what
relationship, if any, exists between" Sra. Priano's death
and the dogs' deaths.
       Between April and August of 2002, according to the
Argentinian newspaper El Tribuno, there were 27 cattle
mutilations in the countryside around Cordoba.  The
unusual nature of Sra. Priano's death has ufologists in
Argentina wondering if it might be the first "human
mutilation" in that country.  (See the Argentinian
newspaper Cronica for October 15, 2002, "A macabre
discovery: Elderly woman found dead and mutilated in
Cordoba."  Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales y Gloria
Coluchi para eso caso.  E tambem a Ufologia Brasileira
por o articulo do jornal.)


LARGE LUMINOUS DISC STUNS
MOTORISTS IN POLAND

       On Tuesday, September 24, 2002, at approximately 7
p.m., "a large glowing disc" suddenly appeared in the sky
over Mogilnie, a small village 5 kilometers (3 miles)
from Wylatowa in Poland.
       According to Tomasz Wiersawicz, UFO Roundup
correspondent in Poland, "The object was a large disc,
very brightly shining and at a slight inclincation to the
horizontal. It was surrounded by a faint reddish light."
       The UFO's sudden appearance "was so amazing that
cars stopped on the road" outside Mogilnie, and the
motorists "got out of their vehicles to get a better look
at the object."
       Mogilnie was also the sight of "several crop circle
formations" in August 2002 and "also during the previous
year (2001) in the summer."  (Many thanks to Tomasz
Wiersawicz for this report.)


CYLINDRICAL SILVER UFO
SEEN IN NEW ZEALAND

       On Tuesday, October 15, 2002, at 10:15 p.m., a
silvery UFO appeared over the Otago coast of New
Zealand's South Island.
       Eyewitness Kirsty Sutherland reported, "At 10:15
p.m., I saw what I thought was a plane.  I was thinking
what a strange direction it was travelling for this area"
because "most flights travel either north or south.  This
one appeared from the west (i.e. over the Dunstan
Mountains--J.T.)," heading east towards the Pacific
Ocean.
       Kirsty, who was in the city of Dunedin at the time,
"followed it for about 30 seconds, then it vanished.  It
was slow-moving, with an instantaneous departure.  The
object was silver, similar to what you would see viewing
a Boeing (jetliner) or the like without wings."  (Email
Form Report)


TRIANGULAR UFO SEEN BY A
WOMAN IN SLOVAKIA

       "A triangular UFO was recently spotted by a woman in
the western Slovak town of Jaslovske Bohunice.  The woman
said she was awakened by strange sounds at 1:30 a.m.,
according to Miroslav Karlek, a member of a UFO club in
Trnava."
       Jaslovske Bohunice is located in Zapadoslovensky
province, about 40 kilometers (25 miles) from Trnava, the
provincial capital.
       "When she looked out her bedroom window, she saw an
illuminated triangular object moving above the town."
       "'It was moving east and west, stopping from time to
time, and was clearly visible from her window,' Karlek
said."  (See the newspaper Slovak Spectator for October
14, 2002, "Triangular UFO spotted."  Many thanks to Gerry
Lovell and Miroslav Karlek for this newspaper article.)


FOUR TRIANGULAR UFOs SEEN
IN NORTHAMPTON, UK

       On Friday, October 4, 2002, at 11 p.m., Annabel and
Wayne Norton were at their home in the city of
Northampton, UK when they spied something unusual in the
night sky.
       Annabel Norton reported, "The objects were flying
high up in the sky.  We spotted four triangular-shaped
objects, all of the same size and white in colour, with a
red/orange glow around them similar to an aura."
       "At first, we thought they were stars but, after a
couple of minutes, we realized this was not possible due
to the colour and the speed at which they were
travelling."
       "The four objects were moving in a westerly
direction at high speed.  They looked as though they were
dancing through the skies, moving forward with sudden
movements to the sides.  One permanently stayed at the
back of the formation whilst the other three darted
around almost as though they were playing with each
other.  We only witnessed this for a maximum of 40
seconds before they were totally out of sight."  (Email
Form Report)


SPHERICAL UFO SIGHTED
NORTH OF SEATTLE

       On Tuesday, October 15, 2002, at 7:45 p.m., John
Novak and a friend were doing some automotive work in a
backyard in Lake Forest Park, Washington state
(population 13,142), located 15 miles (25 kilometers)
north of Seattle, when they spotted a glowing UFO in the
sky.
       "At approximately 7:45 p.m.," John reported, "a
friend and I were in his backyard changing the oil in his
van when, facing south, I saw a large, glowing, whitish-
blue ball of brilliant light move slowly across the sky
at least 60 to 65 degrees altitude above the horizon."
       "I first spotted it in the sky southwest of us,
heading on an eastern path, which would have put it going
over Puget Sound towards Lake Washington, over the small
cities of Shoreline (population 53,025) and Lake Forest
Park, just north of Seattle."
       "The moon was out that night, so we compared the
size of the object relative to the moon, and it was about
one-fourth the size of the moon.  There were two
airplanes to the south of us that appeared to change
course and follow it to the east.  We saw the red and
white flashing (navigational) lights of the planes but
never saw any flashes from the object, that was quite a
bit larger in the sky than the airplanes."
       "Just before it went out of sight over the trees to
the southeast, it just vanished, like someone had turned
off the power.  The two airplanes appeared to change
course at that point and move west.  The entire sighting
was about three to four minutes" in duration.  (Email
Report)


UFO FLOTILLA GATHERS OVER
SOUTHERN ILLINOIS

       On Tuesday, October 15, 2002, at 3:30 p.m., motorist
James A. was driving on Missouri Avenue in East St.
Louis, Illinois (population 31,542) when the lights at
the railroad crossing began to flash.  The gate came
down, and Jim stopped the car, waiting for the Burlington
Northern & Santa Fe freight train to go by.
       "While waiting at the train crossing on Missouri
Avenue," Jim reported, "I noticed what I first thought to
be a large object in the sky moving up and down in what I
would describe as a 'spiral motion,' each time taking a
different shape.  Needless to say, my curiosity was
raised."
       "After the train passed, I continued down Missouri
Avenue, watching the object.  It then became obvious that
I was not watching one object but many.  I would estimate
100 to 200, all moving in sequence."
       "When I left the (stop) light at Centreville
(population 5,951), I pulled off Highway 15 before the
Interstate Highway I-255 exit and continued viewing the
object for about 10 more minutes.  Suddenly, without
hesitation, they broke ranks, with a large group heading
southeast in a V-shaped formation, like geese flying.
About two or three of these formations.  A smaller group
headed west, about 15 to 20 of them.  I was trying to
watch both groups in what they were doing."
       "Approximately 30 seconds after they proceeded in
the directions they were heading, two F-15 fighter jets
appeared out of the north, flying towards where the
objects had been.  At that very moment, the two groups of
UFOs were gone--just disappeared."
       Jim described the UFOs as "metallic, sun reflecting
off objects, round in nature the best I could tell.  Very
high, made sequential movements, very precise."
       East St. Louis, Ill. is on Highway 15, just across
the Mississippi River from the large city of St. Louis,
Missouri.  (Email Form Report)
(Editor's Note: Three miles (5 kilometers) south of East
St. Louis on Route 3, also known as Mississippi Avenue,
are the ruins of Cahokia, a pre-Columbian city that was
the largest in the USA back in 2000 B.C.  Monks Mound, a
very large truncated pyramid, stands in Cahokia, once the
capital city of a long-vanished civilization.  Once
again, the UFOs are visiting a prehistoric city for
reasons known only to the occupants themselves.)


UFOs ARE ACTIVE AGAIN
IN WISCONSIN

       On Wednesday, October 9, 2002, Carmen K. reported,
"My husband and I went outside around 8:30 p.m. to
observe some strange lights in the sky" near their home
in Wisconsin Rapids, Wis. (population 18,435), a town
located 75 miles (120 kilometers) west of Green Bay.
       "When I got outside, I saw what appeared to be a
falling star and I told him that's what I thought it was.
At that point, two objects became apparent and began
flashing like strobe lights.  At first they were white in
color when they were moving from east to west.  Then they
looped around and within seconds were back in the same
spot I had first seen them."
       "We called out my parents and our son, and we all
observed them for around 30 more minutes.  At one point,
we saw as many as five of the lights, ranging in color
from white to red.  When they were red, the lights were
steady and not flashing like the rest of them."
       "A plane then flew overhead, and the lights seemed
to follow and come up on the plane very quickly like they
were observing the plane.  Then they disappeared for a
few minutes and reappeared in the same spot I had first
seen them.  There was absolutely no noise with the
objects."
       Three days later, on Sunday, October 13, 2002, at
2:03 a.m., the male witness, who asked to remain
anonymous, reported, "I was driving north on Highway 61
between Dickeyville (population 1,043) and Tennyson.
About one mile (1.6 kilometers) outside of Tennyson, I
observed a flashing towards the Mississippi (River).  It
was not the usual barge lights.  I thought to myself,
There must be a new cellular tower down there, as I could
see the sky flashing and not the source."
       "A little further on down the road, I looked over
Hog Hollow (in Potosi, Wis.--J.T.) toward the
(Mississippi) river and saw five red lights shaped in an
inverted V.  There are no roads, not even field roads, to
access the Hollow.  The river is not visible from this
location, so it could not have been anything on it.  I
grew up there, and I have never witnessed anything like
that before."
       Later on Sunday, October 13, 2002, at 10:35 p.m.,
eyewitness P.G.L. was at home in West Allis, Wis.
(population 61,254), a suburb of Milwaukee, when he
noticed a strange light in the sky.
       "I stopped at our skylight just before bed and was
looking at what I thought was the constellation
Cassiopeia, but then, just below it, suddenly appeared
four orange triangles," P.G.L. reported.
(Editor's Comment:  Perhaps the same four triangular UFOs
seen in Northampton, UK last week!)
       "They appeared to be hovering approximately 1,000
feet (300 meters) up, and then moved at first slowly and
then very quickly in a southeasterly direction.  Since
our skylight is on a slanted part of our roof, I was able
to observe them for approximately 10 more seconds."
       "The configuration was three triangles in the same
of an arrowhead, with a fourth riding underneath the
arrowhead."  The fourth UFO "and the right tip of the
arrowhead appeared to veer off slightly, still staying
with the group, as they flew off at a greater rate of
speed, due south, until I could no longer see them."
(Many thanks to John Hoppe of UFO Wisconsin for these
reports.)


NEW GREAT PYRAMID DATA
HAS EXPERTS STUMPED

       "A tiny robot's exploration of the Great Pyramid has
captured imaginations around the world--and raised
speculation about the idea behind the pharoah's enigmatic
monument."
       "The robot's first find, broadcast live on
international television in September (2002) from the
heart of the pyramid that Pharoah Khufu built more than
4,000 years ago was 'the hot topic the day after' on a
Web site forum for experts on ancient Egypt, said Lorelei
Corcoran, director of Egyptian Art and Archaeology at the
University of Memphis."
       "Opening a stone door on a treasure worthy of King
Tut might have made more compelling television, but
experts say that, for them, the robot's small step was
exciting."
       "On TV, the robot pushed a small camera through a
hole drilled in a stone door at the end of a narrow shaft
inside the pyramid, revealing a cupboard-sized chamber.
The day after the show, the robot began an untelevised
crawl through another passage with a more difficult,
zigzagging route.  Several days later, it found the twin
of the stone door in the first passage."
       "'I would think that these additional details come
only once every generation,' said Dorothea Arnold, head
of the Department of Egyptian Art" at New York City's
Metropolitan Museum.  "'Isn't that something?  This is
new knowledge about one of the world's masterpieces.'"
       "The doors in the shafts--one to the south and one
to the north--were each 211 feet (64 meters) from the
starting point, a room-sized chamber within the pyramid.
Both were carved of limestone to fit the 8-inch-square"
apertures.  "Each is adorned with what appear to be two
brass handles resembling miniature knob-handled walking
sticks."
       "The symmetry 'from a philosophical point of view,
is very Egyptian,' said Corcoran, an art historian who
specializes in the religious beliefs of the ancient
Egyptians."
       "The importance placed on balance and order--a
natural reaction, then as now, to the world's sometimes
brutal uncertainties--was so great in ancient Egypt that
it was personified as the goddess Maat."
(Editor's Comment: Curiously, one of the Great Pyramid's
shafts is aligned with the star Sirius, said by some
occultists to be the home of the "Lords of Order.")
       "'Sometimes her name is translated as Truth or
Justice, but it really means something like Harmony or
Balance,' Corcoran said."
       "Researchers have been aware of the shafts, found in
no other pyramid, for decades and debated whether they
were carved into the pyramid as symbols or simply played
a utilitarian role, perhaps as air shafts."
       "The pyramid has two inner chambers--each the
starting point for a pair of shafts--and a third chamber
underneath.  The robot dubbed the Pyramid Rover  explored
the two shafts leading from the lower of the two inner
chambers."
       The first door in the south shaft was discovered in
March 1993 by the Upuaut II, a pioneering robot invented
by German archaeologist Rudolf Grantenbrink.  This year,
"National Geographic, working with Egypt's Supreme
Council of the Antiquities, has commissioned the Boston
(Mass.) firm, iRobot, to design and build the Pyramid
Rover, benefitting from the design knowledge gained in
the 1993 explorations."
       "The Pyramid Rover also found what may be a third
stone door blocking the chamber found beyond the south
shaft's first door.  John Taylor, assistant keeper in the
British Museum's Department of Ancient Egypt and Sudan,
said that 'door' may indeed be a dead end, evidence that
the lower chamber had been intended as a burial chamber,
then abandoned in favor of the higher chamber."
       "Why?  An engineer could have decided that the first
chamber was unsuitable, or a priest that it did not meet
philosophical requirements."
       "'We need more information, really,' Taylor said,
'Obviously, any new information is helpful.  It's useful
that we've got this new information.  But basically, it's
given us more questions.'"
       "The shafts had long been seen by some as passages
for the pharoah's soul, perhaps in the guise of a sun god
that would emerge from the pyramid in the morning and
return in the evening."
       "The discovery of stone doors that could also be
seen as barriers does not necessarily undermine the
theory that the shafts were intended as passageways.
David P. Silverman, the curator in charge of the
University of Pennsylvania Museum's Egyptian collection,
said the ancient Egyptians may have believed the
pharoah's soul had the power to pass through such
barriers, which are often found in Egyptian tombs, he
said."
       "Some ancient texts speak of the soul navigating a
series of doors guarded by snakes, said Dr. Zahi Hawass,
director of Egypt's Supreme Council of the Antiquities
and supervisor of the robot exploration project.  The
brass 'handles' on the doors within the pyramid could be
stylized snakes, Dr. Hawass said."
       "Dr. Hawass said he would pause for a few months to
consult with other experts and use their theories to plan
further explorations within the Great Pyramid."
       "'Everything from now on needs a careful look,' Dr.
Hawass said."  (See the St. Louis Post-Dispatch for
October 17, 2002.  Many thanks to the "Potentate of the
Pyramid," Steve Wilson Sr., for this news feature.)
(Editor's Comment:  While most Egyptologists keep
"thinking within the box," it looks as if Dr. Hawass has
figured out the secret of the Great Pyramid.  The pyramid
is NOT the tomb of a dead pharoah.  Rather, it's a kind
of cathedral, a large place of worship with numerous
hidden chambers for the initiation of adepts.
Which is what occultists have been saying for centuries.
Maybe Edgar Cayce's "Hall of Records" is in there
somewhere, after all.)


MR. SPOCK'S HOME PLANET?

       Any fan of the Star Trek paperback novels published
by Pocket Books must have done a double-take last week
when a surprising bit of astronomy news hit the airwaves.
       As all aficionados of Star Trek know, Mr. Spock, the
first officer of the 22nd Century starship Enterprise,
hails from the planet Vulcan, which contributors to the
long-running paperback series claim "is larger than
Earth" and "orbits the star Fomalhaut" in the southern
sky.
       Vulcan is also the home of Spock's relatives and
associates such as his father Sarek, one-time fiancee
T'Pring, the Vulcan female astronaut T'Pau, and the
famous philosopher Surak, who became prominent during
Earth's Seventeenth Century.
       And then came last week's startling news.
       "A planet the size of Saturn may orbit the nearby
star Fomalhaut, astronomers say.  Part of the (Earth's)
Southern Hemisphere's "Southern Fish" constellation,
Fomalhaut boasts a ring of cometary material that appears
bent on close inspection, say researchers from the UK
Astronomy Technology Centre in Edinburgh," Scotland.
       "Only a planet the size of Saturn orbiting the star
can explain the warping of the disk."
       "Some 25 light-years away (one light-year equals
about 5.8 trillion miles), Fomalhaut resembles our sun
when it was young, only 200 million years old."
       "About 100 planets have been detected orbiting
nearby stars since 1995, with Fomalhaut's (planet)
orbiting the furthest from its star."
       "University of Texas astronomers also announced last
week the first signs of a planet orbiting a double star,
a find that promises to add to the number of stars with
planets."  (See USA Today for October 15, 2002, "Huge
planet detected orbiting nearby star.")
(Editor's Comment: Oddly enough, "Vulcan's" discovery
comes at the beginning of the Twenty-First Century,
which, according to the Star Trek canon, is when Spock's
father, the future interstellar diplomat Sarek, was
born.)


  From the UFO Files...

1965: TWO ALIENS SIGHTED IN
             BRAZIL'S NORTHEAST

       "On October 16, 1965, a saucer was seen flying over"
the neighborhood of Alto dos Cruzeiros in Canhotinho, a
city in Brazil's northeastern state of Pernambuco.
       "At about noon, a 56-year-old mechanic named Jose
Camilho Filho, a man of some education and excellent
repute, ran into two entities who may have belonged to"
the saucer's crew.
       "Passing along a road through a belt of scrubland
containing many banana trees" in Alto dos Cruzeiros, Jose
"suddenly rounded a bend and beheld two young people
sitting on the stump of a fallen banana tree.  This in
itself at once struck him  as odd, for even small
children know better than to sit on such things, as they
leave ineradicable stains on clothing.  But when the two
people jumped to their feet, he saw that they were only
80 or 90 centimeters (2 feet, 8 inches to 3 feet) in
height and certainly not normal folk."
       "Their complexions were brown, and their faces
'shrivelled' and furrowed like those of old people.
Their hair was white, their heads rather large in
proportion to their bodies and very round, and their eyes
were 'slit' like those of Orientals (on Earth) but, he
thought, (their eyes were) proportionately larger than in
human beings.  One of the little men had a sparse beard
and wore a dark peaked cap.  The other was bare-headed.
Both appeared to have white hands (possibly white
gloves?--Gordon Creighton)."
       "One was carrying under his arm a rod-shaped object
about 50 centimeters (20 inches) long and about as thick
as an electric torch (flashlight in the USA--J.T.).  When
he saw the Brazilian and jumped up, he 'looked so
astonished that it seemed his eyes would leap from their
sockets,' and he made gesture with the other hand towards
this apparatus under his arm as though thinking of using
it against him."
       "The other little man, who seemed much less alarmed,
wore a blue shirt-like garment, olive-green trousers and
'shoes which looked like tennis shoes.'  The material of
his clothing looked 'tropical' and 'shiny.'  But the most
remarkable feature was his 'luminous belt' (described in
some accounts as a 'luminous shield'--Gordon Creighton)
This covered the upper part of his chest, from shoulder
to shoulder, and from it there flashed out vivid lights--
bluish-red, yellow and green, 'like the flashes from an
electric welding kit, so bright that you could not look
at it.'"
       "Between the entities stood a cylinder about 1
meter, 20 centimeters (3 feet, 11 inches) high and 15
centimeters (6 inches) in diameter."  The alien "with the
flashing lights, who was the nearer, now jumped to his
feet also and grabbed this cylinder by a handle in the
middle of it, and began running off, staggering as he did
so, and he collided with his companion so that both
nearly fell to the ground."
       "The Brazilian, meanwhile, had also taken to his
heels, but looked back in time to see them vanish among
the trees."
       "Two local people said later that at just about the
time in question (12 noon on October 16, 1965--J.T.) they
saw a light or luminous body flying overhead" in the city
of Canhotinho.  (See the Brazilian newspaper O Jornal de
Comercio of Recife, Pernambuco state, Brazil for October
23, 1965.  See also the book The Humanoids, Henry Regnery
Co., Chicago, Illinois, 1969, "The Humanoids in Latin
America" by Gordon Creighton, pages 124 and 125.)


       Well, that's it for this week.  Join us next time
for more UFO, Fortean and paranormal news from around the
planet Earth, brought to you by "the paper that goes
home--UFO Roundup."  See you then.

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2002 by Masinaigan Productions,
all rights reserved.  Readers may post news items from
UFO Roundup on their Websites or in news groups provided
that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name
and list the date of issue in which the item first
appeared.

E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com>
or use the Sighting Report Form at:

http://ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm

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   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   Oct > Oct 23

                   Educational UFO Website For Scientists

From: Bernard Haisch <admin@ufoskeptic.org>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 13:23:59 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 19:56:40 -0400
Subject: Educational UFO Website For Scientists


This is simply to invite you to have a look at your convenience
at:
http://www.ufoskeptic.org
my attempt to educate fellow scientists about the possible
reality and potential significance of this topic.

Regards,

Bernard Haisch (astronomer)







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   Oct > Oct 24

                 Re: Helping CUFOS A La 'Lazy-Man' Method -

From: Bill Stockstill <size14d@bigfoot.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 19:22:42 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 02:47:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Helping CUFOS A La 'Lazy-Man' Method -


 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 12:39:51 -0400
 >Subject: Helping CUFOS A La 'Lazy-Man' Method

 >I have seen several posts recommending that CUFOS set up
 >online credit card payments. It would be more convenient
 >for those wishing to help and I'm sure they'd pick up a lot
 >more $ if folks could pay from the comfort of home.

 >But wait... you can! Where there is a will there is always a
 >way.

 >It turns out that you can make a credit/debit card donation if
 >you wish... only it takes a wee bit more effort. First, go to:

 >http://www.cufos.org/assoc.html

 >1. Download the PDF copy of the 'Associates application form.'
 >2. Open the document in Adobe Acrobat (free from Adobe.com)
 >3. Type in the info requested.
 >4. Save the completed form as a .jpg file.
 >5. Attach it to an e-mail and send it to:

 >infocenter@cufos.org

 >Wham, bam thank you maam, it's done and as easy as that. And all
 >from the computer in your home or office. No muss, no fuss.

 >Pitch in and help CUFOS, send them your moola via e-mail and do
 >it today.

Keep in mind this method is unencrypted and unsecure.







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   Oct > Oct 24

                 Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 20:21:40 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 02:50:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Maccabee


 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 12:51:58 EDT
 >Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs?

 >>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 21:14:03 -0300
 >>Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs?

 >>>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto)
 >>>Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:30:15 EDT
 >>>Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs?

 >>>>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >>>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>>>Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 11:46:52 -0400
.>>>>Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Maccabee

<snip>
 >
 >>>>One of the most obvious, I would suggest, is the Valentich case.

 >>>Which could have been a hoax. In any case, who has proven what
 >>>happened, and its cause?

 >>What? He hoaxed his death?

 >Not necessarily, maybe just his disappearance. Please see
 >Bruce Maccabee's post, above. It has apparently occurred
 >to others. Who knows, it may remain a mystery. In any case,
 >unless one can prove what happened, how can anyone state
 >that this was a death caused by a "UFO"?

I agree that without a body, in principle one cannot say he
died.

However, I suppose the use of the term "hoaxing" applied to
death or disappearance is a sort of poor useage of the term.
Fact is, he is not been found anywhere, dead or alive. So his
disappearance is not a hoax... it is a fact.

If, in fact he is dead, then his death was not a hoax. But since
we don't know for certain that he is dead (with no body and no
eyewitnesses for his plane crashing into the Bass Strait or into
the ground somewhere).

However, the skeptical solution to this case is that

(a) he hoaxed or hallucinated the story about the strange object
and

(b) he did crash into the Bass Strait (and died).

Aside from the skeptical solution, the question is, did he hoax
the apparent method of disappearance or the context of his
disappearance, i.e., his report of a strange object flying over
his airplane.

In this regard, there were (are) ground witnesses who said they
saw an airplane, apparently V's and, if my recollection is
correct, they saw some light or object over it. (I might be
wrong on the last part). But, at the very least they saw the
airplane flying south over Bass Strait.

At the time I met Guido Valentich (father) in January 1979 he
was still somewhat hopeful that "they" had taken Fred and would
return him eventually. Why would he have such a hope?

Because (a) he had heard the audio tape of V's conversation with
the air traffic controller and (b) there had been no trace of
the airplane found in the Bass strait... which in the past had
coughed up similar crash evidence.








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   Oct > Oct 24

                           John Podesta On Area 51

From: Grant Cameron <presidentialufo@presidency.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 19:40:23 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 02:53:34 -0400
Subject: John Podesta On Area 51


Podesta Urges Airing of Area 51
Former White House Chief of Staff Supports Openness

By Tony Batt Stephens
Washington Bureau

Las Vegas Review Journal

http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2002/Oct-23-Wed-2002/news/19903741.ht

The federal government should conduct a review of what
information could be made public about the top-secret Area 51
air base in Nevada, former White House chief of staff John
Podesta said Tuesday.

Podesta, who served as President Clinton's chief of staff from
October 1998 through January 2001, said he was not at liberty to
discuss all he knows about Area 51 because of a lawsuit by
former workers who say they were injured when they inhaled toxic
chemicals burned at the secret base.

Other than confirming the existence of a classified
installation, the government refuses to disclose details about
Area 51, which is located in the dry Groom Lake bed 90 miles
north of Las Vegas. Information about the base is withheld under
presidential orders citing national security concerns.

"My tendency is to try to err on the side of openness rather
than on the side of secrecy, and I think that a thorough review
about whether more information could be brought to light (about
Area 51) would be a worthwhile enterprise," Podesta said.

Podesta appeared at a news conference to support efforts by a
group including the SCI FI cable television channel to obtain
government records on unidentified flying objects. SCI FI
Channel President Bonnie Hammer said credible scientists have
concluded that 5 to 10 percent of UFO reports cannot be
explained by natural or artificial causes.

Although skeptical that there is extra terrestrial life, Podesta
said the government should be willing to disclose information
about UFOs so the public can draw its own conclusions. "I think
it's time to open the books on questions that have remained in
the dark on the question of government investigations of UFOs,"
he said.

Asked if he was aware of any information to suggest Area 51
harbors government information about UFOs, Podesta said, "I can
answer that, no." Podesta noted Clinton signed an executive
order in 1995 that led to the declassification of 800 million
pages of government documents over the next five years. In the
15 years prior to Clinton's order, 188 million pages of
government documents were declassified, Podesta said. Podesta
acknowledged Clinton also signed executive orders to prevent the
release of information about Area 51.

A law professor at Georgetown University, Podesta worked earlier
this year as a lobbyist for Nevada in its unsuccessful effort to
persuade Congress to reject Yucca Mountain, 100 miles northwest
of Las Vegas, as the site for a nuclear waste repository.
Podesta defended his work on Yucca Mountain even though
President Bush's recommendation to store nuclear waste there
passed the House 306-117 and the Senate 60-39.

"I think before that effort, most members of the Congress and
most members of the public saw this really being an issue that
didn't affect them as long as it could only affect Nevada,"
Podesta said. "By the end of the process, they understood that
this was a matter that affected citizens all around the
country."








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                      Feds Asked To shed Light On UFOs

From: Grant Cameron <presidentialufo@presidency.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 20:09:06 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 03:14:17 -0400
Subject: Feds Asked To shed Light On UFOs


Feds Asked to Shed Light on UFOs
October 22, 2002

By Benjamin Grove <grove@lasvegassun.com>

Las Vegas Sun Washington

The federal government is not adequately investigating
unidentified flying objects and is hiding UFO-related documents,
members of a new coalition hoping to bring a serious tone to the
subject said today.

Spearheading the Coalition for Freedom of Information is the
Sci-Fi Channel, which wants the government to unearth UFO
documents so independent scientists can review the material.

The cable network wants to further explore the line that
separates science fiction from fact,

Bonnie Hammer, its president, said.

"When credible scientists conclude that 5 to 10 percent of UFOs
cannot be explained by natural or artificial causes, we think it
is worth taking a much closer look at what is clearly a real and
ubiquitous phenomena," she said.

As part of the coalition effort, veteran UFO journalist and
author Leslie Kean is filing a Freedom of Information request to
obtain documents related to a 1965 incident near Kecksburg, Pa.,
in which the Air Force retrieved an "object of unknown origin."

Conspiracy theorists, private investigators and journalists have
long tried to obtain government documentation of UFOs. Often the
target of their attention has been an Air Force base about 90
miles north of Las Vegas commonly known as Area 51.

The government acknowledges a classified installation there but
does not disclose base information based on presidential orders
to protect national security. Kean, whose stories have appeared
in major daily newspapers nationwide, said she chose to chase
information about Kecksburg over reported Nevada incidents
because Area 51 documents are among the most secret in
government.

Also appearing at the event was John Podesta, former chief of
staff to President Bill Clinton, now a lobbyist and law
professor. Podesta is lending his name to the effort because he
is a longtime advocate of freedom of information, he said.

Podesta, a fan of Fox television's "The X Files," said he was
not a UFO conspiracy theorist and added, "I've certainly never
'been taken.' " But he said the government was keeping documents
under wraps that should be made public. "It's time to find out
what the truth really is out there," Podesta said. Clinton, like
presidents before him, signed orders to keep Area 51 documents
classified.

Despite his call for openness, Podesta declined to discuss the
base. "I'm not really at liberty to talk about what I do know
about this subject matter," he said.

Podesta earlier this year was a paid lobbyist who worked with
Nevada lawmakers on a completely different issue -- Yucca
Mountain. He helped lead their fight in Congress against the
nuclear waste dump. The state's $2.8 million anti-Yucca public
relations campaign was worth the effort because it raised
national awareness about the potential dangers of transporting
highly radioactive nuclear waste cross country to Nevada,
Podesta said after the press conference.








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                     Re: Sci Fi News Conference - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 21:28:25 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 03:17:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Sci Fi News Conference - Kaeser


 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 15:23:46 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Sci Fi News Conference

<snip>

 >Hello All,

 >Eureka! This new campaign sounds like something I can get
 >behind. I have a popular website that gets a respectable amount
 >of traffic. I also appear regularly on EBK's 'Strange Days...
 >Indeed' that has its own respectable following.

 >How can I pitch in to help?

 >Where do I sign up?

 >Who do I contact/talk to?


Hi John,

Don Berliner has been in touch contacted by the Coalition for
Freedom of Information and provided input for their web site.
You can find out who they are and how you can help (no they're
not asking for money) by going to:

http://www.freedomofinfo.org/

Steve








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   Oct > Oct 24

                       Failure of Justice (Continued)

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 01:51:24 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 03:19:56 -0400
Subject: Failure of Justice (Continued)


TO: Hon. George Allen
    United States Senate
    Central Virginia Office
    507 East Franklin Street
    Richmond, VA 23219

FROM: Larry W. Bryant
     3518 Martha Custis Drive
     Alexandria, VA 22302

DATE: October 24, 2002

When I wrote to you on Sept. 4, 2002, seeking your assistance in
having pertinent U. S. Justice Department officials properly and
comprehensively respond to my request that they investigate,
intervene in, counter, and report upon past/current/future cases
of alleged UFO-E.T. abduction, I expected to receive more than a
form-letter reply from either your office or the Justice
Department.

Instead, what Justice's legislative affairs office chose to send
to you (and indirectly to me) on Oct. 10, 2002, via fax, amounts
to even less than a kiss-off form-letter reply: all they did was
fax to you a copy of Civil Rights Division official Albert N.
Moskowitz's letter to me of Aug. 21, 2002 -- the very letter
whose unacceptability remains the focus of my communication with
you on this matter of a failure of justice for the victims of
UFO-E.T. abduction.

During my phone call yesterday to your staffer JoAnn Pulliam in
Richmond, she suggested that I reiterate to you, in writing, my
renewed concern that, once again, certain Justice Department
officials are turning a blind eye (and deaf ears) to the plight
of UFO-E.T.-abduction victims. Before beginning this letter, I
called Justice's legislative affairs staffer Saundra Callier to
make sure that the faxed Moskowitz letter was all she had
intended to relay to you; she confirmed that intention, saying:
"That's the way we're handling the issue." Well, since I view
her response as a way of MIShandling the issue, I now ask that
you arrange an appointment for me to visit you and/or your chief
of staff in your Washington office for the purpose of planning
and coordinating senatorial review and defusing of such callous,
impertinent conduct on the part of appointed officials. Ms.
Pulliam has both my telephone number and e-mail address, and I
await your proposed date and time for the requested appointment.

Please understand, Senator, that this latest episode of official
stonewalling by the U. S. attorney general's office not only
insults the intelligence of your constituency (and, if left to
stand, diminishes your oversight authority); it also continues
to leave our entire population at risk of incurring the UFO-
E.T.-abduction experience. Let's work together on this issue so
as to minimize the risk (and to hold the perpetrators
accountable), despite the Justice Department's refusal to join
us.



                                                            LARRY W. BRYANT
                 Director, Washington, D.C., Office of
                 Citizens Against UFO Secrecy

Copies furnished to:

  Mark S. Zaid, Esq. (Washington, D.C.)

  Attorney General of the United States

  Editor, http://www.ufocity.com

NOTE 1 to the U. S. attorney general: By sending to you a signed
copy of this letter, I hereby request, under terms of the U. S.
Freedom of Information Act, that you furnish me a copy of the
entire contents of your legislative affairs office's
congressional-inquiry case file on this matter.

NOTE 2 to the U. S. attorney general: Referring to my Aug. 30,
2002, letter to your freedom-of-information manager, by which I
FOIA-requested a copy of all Justice Department-received and
Justice Department-generated records pertaining to my letter of
June 8th, I see that your FOIA manager has failed to respond to
that request. Accordingly, I hereby submit this note as a
formal, written appeal of your manager's decision not to comply
with the FOI Act's threshold requirement for timely processing.







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   Oct > Oct 24

                      Sci Fi Release On UFO Disclosure

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 05:03:57 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 03:21:34 -0400
Subject: Sci Fi Release On UFO Disclosure


Source: Sci Fi Wire,

http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/art-sfc.html?2002-10/23/12.30.sfc

Stig

***

12:00pm ET, 23-October-02

SCI FI Backs UFO Disclosure

**

The SCI FI Channel joined with John Podesta, former chief of
staff to President Bill Clinton, in calling for declassification
of secret government records on UFOs, the network announced. SCI
FI is backing a Freedom of Information Act initiative to obtain
government records on cases involving retrieval of objects of
unknown origin by the secret Air Force operations Project Moon
Dust and Operation Blue Fly. Assisting SCI FI in its effort is
the Washington, D.C., law firm of Lobel, Novins and Lamont, the
network announced. "It is time for the government to declassify
records that are more than 25 years old and to provide
scientists with data that will assist in determining the real
nature of this phenomenon," Podesta said in a statement.

Explaining SCI FI's involvement, network president Bonnie Hammer
said, "For the past decade, SCI FI programming has explored the
often-blurred line that separates science fiction from science
fact. But when credible scientists conclude that 5 percent to 10
percent of UFOs cannot be explained by natural or artificial
causes, we think it is worth taking a much closer look at what
is clearly a real and ubiquitous phenomenon."

SCI FI has also commissioned a report by independent journalist
Leslie Kean to document the government's failure to carry out
systematic scientific research into the UFO phenomenon. "The
fact is that scientists who have spent time studying,
classifying and analyzing these phenomena agree that they are
real and that it will require a sustained research effort to
determine their cause," Kean said in a statement. "The public
has a right to know what is being observed in our airspace, once
it has been determined it is not a foreign or domestic
aircraft," said Kean.

Hammer also announced that on Nov. 8 SCI FI will sponsor a
symposium at George Washington University exploring the
potential for interstellar travel and the evidence of
unidentified aerial phenomena. Panelists will include American
scientists and aviation experts.

SCI FI also announced the formation of the Coalition for Freedom
of Information, to be headed by Ed Rothschild. "We have
constructed a new Web site [link] to generate public support for
greater disclosure of government records and for more scientific
investigation," Rothschild said in a statement. "We are
providing the public with an opportunity to get directly
involved in this issue. The site contains some of the best
information available on this issue, as well as letters that
citizens can send to their senators and representatives."

The activity comes a few months before SCI FI airs its upcoming
20-hour epic miniseries Taken [link], a fictionalized account
based on the 50-year history of the UFO phenomenon, from
executive producer Steven Spielberg. Taken premieres Dec. 2.








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   Oct > Oct 24

                       Art Bell To Announce Retirement

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 05:58:42 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 03:24:36 -0400
Subject: Art Bell To Announce Retirement


Source: Reuters/Variety TV via Yahoo News,

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=3Dstory&u=3D/nm/20021024/tv_nm/bell_2

Stig

***

Radio legend Art Bell to announce retirement

Wed Oct 23, 8:39 PM ET

By Sue Zeidler

**

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Radio host Art Bell, famed for his
lengthy discussions on creepy conspiracy theories, will announce
his retirement on air in the wee hours of Thursday, his
syndicator Premiere Radio Networks Inc. said Wednesday.

Plagued with ongoing back problems, Bell, 57, will name guest
host George Noory, 52, as his successor during his overnight
radio show, 'Coast to Coast AM'.

The popular show, which has developed a cult following and is
touted as the most listened to overnight radio program in the
country, features Bell offering insights on anything from UFO
sightings to FBI (news - web sites) conspiracy theories and crop
circles.

The program was created by Bell in 1993 and currently airs on
525 stations nationwide live from 1-6 a.m. ET, according to
Premiere, a subsidiary of Clear Channel Communications Inc., the
nation's largest radio broadcaster.

This is not the first time Bell -- who plans to serve as an
occasional guest host -- has left the air.

He returned to the air in February 2001 following a lengthy
absence after being falsely accused of child molestation.

Bell announced he would depart to tend to his son, who had been
molested, according to reports, but the host found himself in
the middle of a firestorm when another radio announcer
incorrectly suggested on air that Bell himself had been charged
with the crime.

Bell's teen-age son had been abducted and molested by one of his
high school teachers and Bell had refused to discuss the
sensitive issue on the air, according to reports.

The teacher was later convicted and sentenced to prison,
according to reports.

'Coast to Coast AM' will continue its current broadcast
schedule, which features Bell for three nights, Noory for three
nights and host Barbara Simpson for one night until Dec. 31,
2002.

As of January 1, Noory will host the show five nights a week,
with Simpson hosting on weekends.

Since 1997, Noory has been the host of a late-night program in
St. Louis, which is similar to 'Coast to Coast AM'.

Known as "the Nighthawk," listeners have regularly tuned in to
hear Noory discuss unexplained phenomena, Premiere said.

Reuters/Variety

**

Copyright =A9 2002 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved.
Republication or redistribution of Reuters content is expressly
prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters. Reuters
shall not be liable for any errors or delays in the content, or
for any actions taken in reliance thereon.

Copyright =A9 2002 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.







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   Oct > Oct 24

                   Re: FBI Investigates UFO Video Now 'Bug

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 21:33:52 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 03:37:36 -0400
Subject: Re: FBI Investigates UFO Video Now 'Bug


 >From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 18:16:31 -0700
 >Subject: FBI Investigates UFO Video Now 'Bug Frequency'?

 >Unidentified flying object caught on tape; FBI help sought

 >Source: The Times Union - Albany, NY

 >http://www.timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=63973&categ
 >ory=REGION&newsdate=10/22/2002

 >By CATHY WOODRUFF,
 >Staff writer

 >First published: Tuesday, October 22, 2002

 >Was it a terrorist missile, an off-course alien space craft or
 >just a zippy mosquito with a hearty autumn constitution? Local
 >authorities hope the FBI will know for sure.

<snip>

Uhhhh, did I miss a memo? When did the FBI get involved in UFO
video analysis? Is this part of the new Homeland Security
initiative?


==JJS==








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                Re: Educational UFO Website For Scientists -

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 22:57:35 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 03:40:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Educational UFO Website For Scientists -


 >From: Bernard Haisch <admin@ufoskeptic.org>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 13:23:59 -0400
 >Subject: Educational UFO Website For Scientists

 >This is simply to invite you to have a look at your convenience
 >at:

 >http://www.ufoskeptic.org

 >my attempt to educate fellow scientists about the possible
 >reality and potential significance of this topic.

 >Regards,

 >Bernard Haisch (astronomer)


Is anyone besides me impressed and excited that Dr. Haisch is
"on board"?  The guy ain't no slouch. He may be the most
credentialed scientist since Hynek to say, "Maybe we should take
another look..."

I've been to his website, and I like some of the ideas he puts
forth, such as m-brane theory. I think this is a big break for
ufology, and an important website.


==JJS==








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                      SETI Launches New Detection Scale

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 08:14:11 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 03:50:23 -0400
Subject: SETI Launches New Detection Scale


Source: SABC News - South African Broadcasting Corporation

http://www.sabcnews.com/sci_tech/science/0,1009,45459,00.html

Stig

***

International SETI launches new detection scale

October 21, 2002, 06:10 PM

**

A new scale designed to give the public an expert view of any
claimed detection of extraterrestrial intelligence has been
launched by the International Academy of Astronautics' Search
for Extraterrestrial Intelligence Permanent Study Group at the
World Space Congress in Houston.

The Rio Scale was initiated by Drs. Ivan Almar of Hungary and
Jill Tarter of the SETI Institute in California to give the
media and the public an idea of the credibility and importance -
  as determined by a panel of SETI scientists - of any claim that
intelligence elsewhere in the universe has been detected.

To demonstrate the Rio Scale, Dr. Seth Shostak of the SETI
Institute and Almar have authored a paper for the World Space
Congress assessing fictional and past non-fictional SETI events.
 From the realm of fiction they include the films Contact, The
Arrival, Independence Day, The Sphere and 2001: A Space Odyssey
and books including The Listeners, The Sparrow and The Coming.
The non-fiction claims include the "face on Mars" and a SETI
hoax involving the star EQ Peg.

So what Rio Scale rating would they get? The scale runs from
zero (for non-credible claims of detection) to ten (for a
completely reliable detection.) The SETI type detection in the
movie Contact gets high marks near 10 because of the
confirmations by telescopes around the world. On the other hand
a claim of a real detection in the EQ Peg hoax reaches only 3-4
on the scale during the claim, dropping to zero when a large
radio telescope proves the signal is false.


Hollywood's contribution to SETI


"Hollywood has been rather inventive about scenarios involving
contact with extraterrestrial societies, and their stories are
well known," says Shostak. "Some of these films make good 'lab
rats' for testing out the Rio Scale, and testing is definitely
desirable. After all, if SETI researchers pick up a signal, it
will be very useful to have a scheme in place for assessing the
importance and reliability of the discovery."

If you would like to try to estimate the Rio Scale for these
events yourself, a website has been set up by the SETI League,
which is currently hosting the IAA SETI Group's Internet
presence. Browse to http://iaaseti.org/ and then click on "Rio
Scale."

SETI scientists seek to determine through microwave and optical
measurements whether humankind is alone in the universe. Since
the US Congress terminated NASA's SETI funding in 1993, the SETI
League and other scientific groups have been attempting to
privatise the research.

**

Article printout courtesy of the South African Broadcasting
Corporation.

South African Broadcasting Corporation

Copyright =A9 2000 SABC








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             Re: Educational UFO Website For Scientists - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 01:53:21 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 10:26:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Educational UFO Website For Scientists - Hatch


 >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 22:57:35 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Educational UFO Website For Scientists

 >>From: Bernard Haisch <admin@ufoskeptic.org>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 13:23:59 -0400
 >>Subject: Educational UFO Website For Scientists

 >>This is simply to invite you to have a look at your convenience
 >>at:

 >>http://www.ufoskeptic.org

 >>my attempt to educate fellow scientists about the possible
 >>reality and potential significance of this topic.

 >>Regards,

 >>Bernard Haisch (astronomer)

 >Is anyone besides me impressed and excited that Dr. Haisch is
 >"on board"? The guy ain't no slouch. He may be the most
 >credentialed scientist since Hynek to say, "Maybe we should take
 >another look..."

 >I've been to his website, and I like some of the ideas he puts
 >forth, such as m-brane theory. I think this is a big break for
 >ufology, and an important website.

 >==JJS==


Hello Jim:

I'm certainly impressed with Dr. Haisch and his website.

I've had a link to it on my own site for about a year now. I
show relatively few links, and seldom put new ones up. I'm more
inclined to take them down.


Best

- Larry







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                Re: Educational UFO Website For Scientists -

From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 08:47:07 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 10:54:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Educational UFO Website For Scientists -


 >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
 >To: UFO Updates <UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 22:57:35 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Educational UFO Website For Scientists -

 >Is anyone besides me impressed and excited that Dr. Haisch is
 >"on board"?  The guy ain't no slouch. He may be the most
 >credentialed scientist since Hynek to say, "Maybe we should take
 >another look..."

 >I've been to his website, and I like some of the ideas he puts
 >forth, such as m-brane theory. I think this is a big break for
 >ufology, and an important website.


Jim,

An excellent website to be sure and most welcome. However, I do
detect a tad of elitism. As an example his deliberate short
reading list failing to list excellent reference books, such as
"The UFO Encyclopedia" by Jerome Clark or thoroughly documented
historical background materials on some of the people involved
in early investigations, such as the works of Mike Hall and
myself...but then again, even scientists sometimes fail to
consider the historical aspects in their formulation of theory.

I say a tad bit elitist only because he fails to acknowledge the
life-time works of some of the best lay persons in the field,
who where there when the reputable scientist scoffed. In other
words, if you are not a recognized and credentialed scientist,
you have nothing of importance to contribute. But, then again,
it's a website for scientists; speaks to other scientists and
allows scientists to theorize, even though theories have been
made over the course of 50+ years by both scientists and
extremely knowledgable lay persons.

Something tells me that once science decides to legitimately
undertake the investigation of the phenomena, all the work by
others over the last 50+ years will be discarded, thus laying
claim by the scientific community that they alone did the work
and legitimized the scientific phenomena of crypto-aeronautics.
Unfortunately, many good people other than scientists, laid the
groundwork for a new, legitimate, science.

But, then again, I shall wait to see.


Wendy Connors







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                    Strange Being Found In Southern Chile

From: Scot Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 07:39:03 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 10:29:58 -0400
Subject: Strange Being Found In Southern Chile


SOURCE: Terra.Cl
DATE: 23 October 2002

STRANGE BEING FOUND IN SOUTHERN CHILE

A mysterious being was found 15 days ago in the city of
Concepcion by a family from Santiago vacationing in the area.
The being, which measures only 7.2 cm, has a large skull, two
arms, long fingers and two legs. The news was made known by
Noticiero Mega and quickly caused expectation among UFO
researchers. According to background information compiled by
journalist Rodrigo Ugarte, one of the children found the
mysterious being in the bushes while on a family walk.

After wrapping it up in paper, he took it home. The witnesses
claim that the being was alive for at least 8 days and would
open its eyes on occasion. However, the creature's aspect is
similar to that of a mummy and shows signs of having been
burned. Specialists at the University of Chile noted that it
could be a fetus of some local feline, but have hitherto been
unable to determine what species it belongs to. It is hoped that
tests will be performed within the next few hours to establish
its origin; a DNA test will be among them.

"The being found is neither a human nor animal foetus"

After analyzing the strange skeleton found by a family in
Concepcion, psychiatrist and abduction expert Mario Dussuel
informed Terra.cl that it isn't a human or animal foetus. " I
held the strange being in my hands. It seems mummified, measures
less than 15 centimeters and is very lightweight. My attention
was drawn to its slanted eyes, well-defined temporal lobes and
overall composition. Its fingers have nothing to do with those
of an animal and it has a very slender neck."

Regarding the likelihood that it could be a fetal human or
animal, the specialist added: "The being does not have the
characteristics of a human foetus and much less those of an
animal. Dussuel added that it is necessary to conduct electron
microscopy to study its cells and tissues: "It is very important
to be able to make this type of study, aside from taking a
sample of DNA. It would therefore be possible to determine if
the corpse's biological composition is different from that of a
human."

Should this be confirmed, the doctor states that "we would be
faced with a case that should cause international uproar with
unsuspected repercussions. I'm surprised that no organization
has initiated investigations in this regard. There is no doubt
that we are faced with an extraordinary event."


=========================================

Translation (C) 2002 Scott Corrales
Institute of Hispanic Ufology
Special thanks to Guillermo Gimenez.











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                  Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 10:20:41 -0300
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 10:32:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Ledger


 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 20:21:40 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs?

 >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 12:51:58 EDT
 >>Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs?

 >>>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 21:14:03 -0300
 >>>Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs?

 >>>>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto)
 >>>>Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:30:15 EDT
 >>>>Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs?

 >>>>>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >>>>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>>>>Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 11:46:52 -0400
 >>>>>Subject: Re: Deaths Attributable To UFOs? - Maccabee

 ><snip>

 >>>>>One of the most obvious, I would suggest, is the Valentich case.

 >>>>Which could have been a hoax. In any case, who has proven what
 >>>>happened, and its cause?

 >>>What? He hoaxed his death?

 >>Not necessarily, maybe just his disappearance. Please see
 >>Bruce Maccabee's post, above. It has apparently occurred
 >>to others. Who knows, it may remain a mystery. In any case,
 >>unless one can prove what happened, how can anyone state
 >>that this was a death caused by a "UFO"?

 >I agree that without a body, in principle one cannot say he
 >died.

 >However, I suppose the use of the term "hoaxing" applied to
 >death or disappearance is a sort of poor useage of the term.
 >Fact is, he is not been found anywhere, dead or alive. So his
 >disappearance is not a hoax... it is a fact.

 >If, in fact he is dead, then his death was not a hoax. But since
 >we don't know for certain that he is dead (with no body and no
 >eyewitnesses for his plane crashing into the Bass Strait or into
 >the ground somewhere).

 >However, the skeptical solution to this case is that

 >(a) he hoaxed or hallucinated the story about the strange object
 >and

 >(b) he did crash into the Bass Strait (and died).

 >Aside from the skeptical solution, the question is, did he hoax
 >the apparent method of disappearance or the context of his
 >disappearance, i.e., his report of a strange object flying over
 >his airplane.

 >In this regard, there were (are) ground witnesses who said they
 >saw an airplane, apparently V's and, if my recollection is
 >correct, they saw some light or object over it. (I might be
 >wrong on the last part). But, at the very least they saw the
 >airplane flying south over Bass Strait.

 >At the time I met Guido Valentich (father) in January 1979 he
 >was still somewhat hopeful that "they" had taken Fred and would
 >return him eventually. Why would he have such a hope?

 >Because (a) he had heard the audio tape of V's conversation with
 >the air traffic controller and (b) there had been no trace of
 >the airplane found in the Bass strait... which in the past had
 >coughed up similar crash evidence.

Hi Bruce,

The tape of the conversation between Valentich and Flight
Service was a matter of official record. Guido had a copy sent
to him by the authorities.

Valentich was declared presummed dead and that was good enough
to pay off insurance. That makes it, at least in the eyes of the
justice system, a matter of fact.

Both Bill Chalker and Dr. Richard Haines have done extensive
research on this case. Dick Haines' book was titled the
'Melbourne Episode', incidentally.


Best,

Don Ledger








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             Re: Educational UFO Website For Scientists - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 10:29:22 -0300
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 10:35:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Educational UFO Website For Scientists - Ledger


 >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 22:57:35 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Educational UFO Website For Scientists

 >>From: Bernard Haisch <admin@ufoskeptic.org>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 13:23:59 -0400
 >>Subject: Educational UFO Website For Scientists

 >>This is simply to invite you to have a look at your convenience
 >>at:

 >>http://www.ufoskeptic.org

 >>my attempt to educate fellow scientists about the possible
 >>reality and potential significance of this topic.

 >>Regards,

 >>Bernard Haisch (astronomer)

 >Is anyone besides me impressed and excited that Dr. Haisch is
 >"on board"?  The guy ain't no slouch. He may be the most
 >credentialed scientist since Hynek to say, "Maybe we should take
 >another look..."

 >I've been to his website, and I like some of the ideas he puts
 >forth, such as m-brane theory. I think this is a big break for
 >ufology, and an important website.


Hi Jim,

I am too. You will note there is a link to NARCAP on that site
[I'm the Canadian Affiliate] and that brings up another heavily
credentialed scientist - Dr. Richard Haines, who is also
committed to the study of the Phenomenon.

If Haisch can attract others to this venture then we might have
finally achieved something. An unbiased, scientific look at the
phenomenon.


Best,

Don Ledger








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              Re: SETI Launches New Detection Scale - Hamilton

From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 15:07:49 UT
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 14:18:57 -0400
Subject: Re: SETI Launches New Detection Scale - Hamilton


 >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 08:14:11 +0200
 >Subject: SETI Launches New Detection Scale

 >Source: SABC News - South African Broadcasting Corporation

 >http://www.sabcnews.com/sci_tech/science/0,1009,45459,00.html

 >Stig

 >***

 >International SETI launches new detection scale

 >October 21, 2002, 06:10 PM

 >**

 >A new scale designed to give the public an expert view of any
 >claimed detection of extraterrestrial intelligence has been
 >launched by the International Academy of Astronautics' Search
 >for Extraterrestrial Intelligence Permanent Study Group at the
 >World Space Congress in Houston.

 >The Rio Scale was initiated by Drs. Ivan Almar of Hungary and
 >Jill Tarter of the SETI Institute in California to give the
 >media and the public an idea of the credibility and importance -
 > as determined by a panel of SETI scientists - of any claim that
 >intelligence elsewhere in the universe has been detected.

 >To demonstrate the Rio Scale, Dr. Seth Shostak of the SETI
 >Institute and Almar have authored a paper for the World Space
 >Congress assessing fictional and past non-fictional SETI events.
 >From the realm of fiction they include the films Contact, The
 >Arrival, Independence Day, The Sphere and 2001: A Space Odyssey
 >and books including The Listeners, The Sparrow and The Coming.
 >The non-fiction claims include the "face on Mars" and a SETI
 >hoax involving the star EQ Peg.

 >So what Rio Scale rating would they get? The scale runs from
 >zero (for non-credible claims of detection) to ten (for a
 >completely reliable detection.) The SETI type detection in the
 >movie Contact gets high marks near 10 because of the
 >confirmations by telescopes around the world. On the other hand
 >a claim of a real detection in the EQ Peg hoax reaches only 3-4
 >on the scale during the claim, dropping to zero when a large
 >radio telescope proves the signal is false.

<snip>

Here is a webpage explaining the Rio scale together with a Rio
Scale calculator.

http://www.setileague.org/iaaseti/rioscale.htm

Perhaps we need to have some sort of rating scale similar to
this for UFO sightings.

-Bill H








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                    Re: Secrecy News -- 10/23/02 - Warren

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren@pacbell.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 08:48:46 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 14:22:09 -0400
Subject: Re:  Secrecy News -- 10/23/02 - Warren


 >From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
 >To: <secrecy_news@lists.fas.org>
 >Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 12:20:46 -0400
 >Subject: Secrecy News -- 10/23/02


 >SECRECY NEWS
 >from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
 >Volume 2002, Issue No. 105
 >October 23, 2002

<snip>

 >UFO CULT RESURFACES

 >The UFO cult that is fixated on the notion that "secret government
 >documents" contain "the truth" about otherwise "unexplained aerial
 >phenomena" is, on balance, no friend of freedom of information or
 >government accountability.

 >Neverending requests for documentation on UFOs, the remains of Noah's
 >Ark, and similar obsessions clog up the narrow channels of public
 >access to government information and make a mockery of the Freedom of
 >Information Act.

 >Their latest publicity stunt, featuring no less than former White House
 >chief of staff John Podesta, is reported in "Clinton Aide Slams
 >Pentagon's UFO Secrecy" here:

Att: Steven Aftergood,

Was this meant to be a joke? Being that this is a List for the
study of UFO related phenomena etc., I found this an odd place
to present such drivel!

I have always looked forward to the 'Secrecy News' posts, up
until now. Are you responsible for writing this piece?


Frank Warren








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                               Clifford Stone?

From: Philip Mantle <philip.mantle@eidosnet.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 16:31:10 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 14:23:57 -0400
Subject: Clifford Stone?


Dear colleagues,

I wonder could anyone possible supply me with a contact for
Clifford Stone (US Army retired).

I'd appreciate if you could contact me direct at:

philip.mantle@eidosnet.co.uk

In the meantime the List might like to know that I will be a
guest on the Jeff Rense radio show on Monday evening 928th
October) where I will be discussing my new book 'Without
Consent' which deals entirely with missing time and abductions
cases in the UK.

I have also just been confirmed as a speaker at the February
2003 congress in Laughlin, Nevada. Here again I will be
discussing the contents of my new book.

Overseas colleagues may like to know that the book can be
obtained on-line via:

http://www.beyondpublications.com

If anyone can help me locate Clifford Stone I would be most
grateful.

Yours sincerely,


Philip Mantle (UK)

www.beyondpublications.com
www.beyondroswell.com








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                Re: Educational UFO Website For Scientists -

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 09:11:01 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 14:25:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Educational UFO Website For Scientists -


 >From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
 >To: UFO Updates <UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 08:47:07 -0600
 >Subject: Re: Educational UFO Website For Scientists

 >>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
 >>To: UFO Updates <UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 22:57:35 -0700
 >>Subject: Re: Educational UFO Website For Scientists -

 >>Is anyone besides me impressed and excited that Dr. Haisch is
 >>"on board"?  The guy ain't no slouch. He may be the most
 >>credentialed scientist since Hynek to say, "Maybe we should take
 >>another look..."
 >
 >>I've been to his website, and I like some of the ideas he puts
 >>forth, such as m-brane theory. I think this is a big break for
 >>ufology, and an important website.

 >Jim,

 >...

 >Something tells me that once science decides to legitimately
 >undertake the investigation of the phenomena, all the work by
 >others over the last 50+ years will be discarded, thus laying
 >claim by the scientific community that they alone did the work
 >and legitimized the scientific phenomena of crypto-aeronautics.
 >Unfortunately, many good people other than scientists, laid the
 >groundwork for a new, legitimate, science.

It's a good bet you're right on this, Wendy. However, this
earlier work will not have been at all in vain, but will have
been necessary, I think, to bring the scientific community to
the point where they would dare look into the matter seriously.


Jim Deardorff








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                Re: Rusty's 'Angel Hair' Lab Report - Gehrman

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 09:12:38 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 14:27:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Rusty's 'Angel Hair' Lab Report - Gehrman


 >From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 09:08:05 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Rusty's 'Angel Hair' Lab Report

 >>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 17:41:39 -0700
 >>Subject: Re: Rusty's 'Angel Hair' Lab Report

 >>Amy, List, Dick, Larry, Frank, EBK

 >>Yes, I agree. My sample was composed of the same stuff. I never
 >>stated that the raw materials that combine to make angel hair
 >>are other-worldly. Nor do I think angel hair is the product of
 >>chemical trails or anything along those lines.

 >Ed, did you send your sample of "angel hair" for analysis to
 >Frontier Analysis, Ltd. or any other lab?

Amy,

Yes, Frontier Analysis conducted the examination of the two
samples I collected. When I first had the angel hair encounter
last November, I reported it to Updates and asked for advice on
who might be able to test the samples; three groups were
suggested by various list members and I selected Frontier
because I wanted my sample compared to known samples and figured
Frontier had the best collection on record.

 >If so, may I see the lab report? And, if so, may I post the
 >report in the Vanguard Archives for others to review?

I don't have the report in my possession. I loaned it to a
friend and it has not been returned.

You're welcome to contact Phyllis for a copy and you certainly
have my permission to post it where others can benefit from the
information.

 >In my studies, I found that many materials needed for research
 >are not always available on the internet so I started the
 >Vanguard Research Archives so that others may be able to access
 >these materials more easily.

 >The Vanguard Archives is for direct, unaltered presentation of
 >materials and information for research purposes. Comments,
 >conclusions, papers, etc. will be posted at other sites as the
 >Archives is for reference only.

Good idea

 >I am researching the literature available on "angel hair" and
 >will get back with you at a later date to continue our
 >discussion.

Looking forward to the discussion. I certainly don't enjoy
butting heads with you over this. Angel hair is a solvable
mystery if we cooperate and carefully examine all the disparate
information. Do you want the Elmira info and photo?


Ed








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                          Re: CUFOS Crisis - Clark

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 12:11:45 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 14:30:33 -0400
Subject: Re: CUFOS Crisis - Clark


 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 11:35:31 EDT
 >Subject: Re: CUFOS Crisis

 >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >>To: <UFOupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 12:51:46 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: CUFOS Crisis

 >>>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 22:45:05 +0100
 >>>Subject: Re: CUFOS Crisis

 >>A recent fund-raising letter by CSICOP Executive Director Barry
 >>Karr states, "CSICOP and Skeptical Inquirer hare [sic]
 >>struggling with current finances like never before in their
 >>history," and goes on in that vein for a number of
 >>characteristically purple paragraphs.

 >>Clearly, interest in scientific anomalies - even from a hostile
 >>perspective such as CSICOP's - is down.

 >No, in CSICOP's case the stock market, and thus their endowment
 >and donations are down. In CUFOS's case the income has dropped
 >as subscriptions have dropped.

As I wrote earlier, CSICOP is suffering, in common with much
less well-funded pro-anomaly groups such as CUFOS, from
declining interest in the subject. Because debunking is a big
business, however, CSICOP is top-heavy with the sort of serious
financial backing that anomalists can only fantasize about.
Barry Karr's fund-raising letter focuses in good part on tales
of wealthy supporters who have suffered from stock-market
reverses and who thus are keeping checkbooks closed when
CSICOP's money-hounds come calling.

Beyond that, Karr quotes a letter from a onetime subscriber who
laments that he or she "cannot renew, though I'd truly love to."
CUFOS gets those sorts of letters, too. The difference between
us and CSICOP is that we aren't reduced to quoting them, since
we believe nobody has to be told about this economy's lousy
shape and its entirely predictable effect on would-be
supporters' discretionary income.

Clearly, we do have in common declining income stemming in large
(albeit not entire) part from declining interest. In any event,
where CSICOP is concerned, that seems easy enough to understand.
In a time of international terrorism, wars, environmental
degradation, rampant crime, brutal dictatorships possessing
weapons of mass destruction, and other ills, who can take
seriously an organization whose idea of a threat to civilization
is a newspaper astrology column or a pro-psychic show on cable
television?


Jerry Clark








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                    British Columbia Sighting - 10-15-02

From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 10:37:57 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 14:32:28 -0400
Subject: British Columbia Sighting - 10-15-02


HBCC UFO Research
Houston, British Columbia

Date: October 15, 2002
Time: approx: 9:50 p.m.

A Houston resident had tried to contact me over a sighting she
witnessed, but I was in Vancouver on a short break at the time.
Finally today I received a telephone call from her, and she made
her report.

While checking on her farm animals before turning in for the
evening, she saw a very bright white light, at a fairly low
altitude flying steadily along. She said it made no sudden
movements and stayed on course, where ever it was going. This
light was traveling in a southwesterly direction. To her
surprise, at one point when the light was almost directly over
head, a very bright flash came from it, and another bright white
object started across the sky heading in the opposite direction.

She claims that the second bright light did come from the
original object (light) just after the bright flash was seen.
Both of the objects disappeared after traveling a short
distance.

I asked the witness if she could determine the altitude for the
two objects. (HBCC UFO Note: I first thought what she may have
been seeing was a satellite moving slowly across the sky. But
she said it was not that high up. So whatever she witnessed was
certainly strange, especially when we have a bright flash, then
another bright white object heading in the opposite direction.
The total length of this sighting was approx: 5 to 6 seconds.

Take care
Brian Vike
HBCC UFO Research &
Editor for the Canadian Communicator Journal
(Paranormal Journal)








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   Oct > Oct 24

                        Anomaly Foundation Web Update

From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos@yahoo.es>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 20:33:20 +0200 (CEST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 15:40:47 -0400
Subject: Anomaly Foundation Web Update


Mr Mat=EDas Morey, web master of the Anomaly Foundation=B4s web
site:

http://www.anomalia.org

has announced that the site has been updated, including a
bilingual section on the FOTOCAT (photographic catalog) Project

http://www.anomalia.org/fotocat1.htm

a number of articles available in English

http://www.anomalia.org/english.htm

and the publication of a long essay on the Ummo affair

http://www.anomalia.org/ummo.pdf


Good reading!


V-J








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             Re: Educational UFO Website For Scientists - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 14:40:14 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 15:43:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Educational UFO Website For Scientists - Velez


 >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 22:57:35 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Educational UFO Website For Scientists

 >>From: Bernard Haisch <admin@ufoskeptic.org>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 13:23:59 -0400
 >>Subject: Educational UFO Website For Scientists

 >>This is simply to invite you to have a look at your convenience
 >>at:

 >>http://www.ufoskeptic.org

 >>my attempt to educate fellow scientists about the possible
 >>reality and potential significance of this topic.

 >>Regards,

 >>Bernard Haisch (astronomer)

 >Is anyone besides me impressed and excited that Dr. Haisch is
 >"on board"?  The guy ain't no slouch. He may be the most
 >credentialed scientist since Hynek to say, "Maybe we should take
 >another look..."

 >I've been to his website, and I like some of the ideas he puts
 >forth, such as m-brane theory. I think this is a big break for
 >ufology, and an important website.

 >==JJS==

Hello Jim, All,

I agree Jim. An astronomer stepping over the 'line' and calling
for more scientific involvement and (hopefully) investigation
may be just the catalyst that was needed.

But then...

I felt the same way about John Mack. In him we had a Pulitzer
Prize winning author, a Harvard associated psychiatrist with
credentials 'out the ying-yang'. Like McDonald before him, the
only unified response from his peers came in the form of a
'necktie' party. In John Mack's case, an 'attempted' public
hanging that didn't quite take/succeed.

Then came Peter Sturrock and his panel. An impressive
assemblage of top academics who collectively published a
compelling report. How much has come of that?

I don't mean to sound overly pessimistic about how much will
actually be accomplished by strapping Mr. Haisch to the pyre.
The man is obviously an open-minded individual with healthy old-
fashioned sensibilities about doing real science. He's not
afraid to hang the albatross of ufology around his neck. You
gotta admire and respect the guy for the courage he demonstrates
by putting it all 'on the line.'

I tip my hat to him and wish him all success in his mission.

Speaking as a supporter and a 'friend' to such individuals I
only hope that he is familiar with the history of others who
dared to walk this path before him. Forewarned is forearmed. For
scientists, more so than for lay investigators, conditions on
the road he has chosen to travel are _always_ treacherous. That
he is going to pay a 'professional price' for his involvement is
beyond question.

Kudos to Bernard Haisch. Obviously a man of courage. I will
await the response of his peers in the scientific community with
bated breath. The important thing here is; a venue for peer
communication among academics regarding the UFO question has
been created. I hope Mr. Haisch keeps us updated as to progress
or regarding any developments.

I will add a link to his website from mine shortly. In terms of
UFO related content on the Internet, we need much more of this
(the kind of website that Haisch has created)... and a lot less
of the sensational kind of UFO site. Because I take this subject
very seriously I consider 'sensational' UFO web sites to be a
pariah. They are the _primary_ sources of UFO misinformation. A
bunch of freaking rumor mills for the most part.

Let's hear it for a sane and rational approach to the problem. A
lot of us have been waiting for this for a long time.

Regards,

John Velez

Sign the International Petition to the United Nations
for disclosure of information pertaining to UFOs.

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition








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                Re: Educational UFO Website For Scientists -

From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 13:08:47 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 15:48:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Educational UFO Website For Scientists -


 >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
 >To: UFO Updates <UFOUpDates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 09:11:01 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Educational UFO Website For Scientists -

 >>From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
 >>To: UFO Updates <UFOUpDates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 08:47:07 -0600
 >>Subject: Re: Educational UFO Website For Scientists

 >>Something tells me that once science decides to legitimately
 >>undertake the investigation of the phenomena, all the work by
 >>others over the last 50+ years will be discarded, thus laying
 >>claim by the scientific community that they alone did the work
 >>and legitimized the scientific phenomena of crypto-aeronautics.
 >>Unfortunately, many good people other than scientists, laid the
 >>groundwork for a new, legitimate, science.

 >It's a good bet you're right on this, Wendy. However, this
 >earlier work will not have been at all in vain, but will have
 >been necessary, I think, to bring the scientific community to
 >the point where they would dare look into the matter seriously.


Jim,

I agree totally. If the efforts by so many others move the
scientific community to begin to look long and hard, then all
that was accomplished before, will have been worth it. But, I
gotta tell ya, when it comes to legitimate science finally doing
what they should have done from day one, I'm a confirmed skeptic
that they will follow through. They have decades of default
behind them, except for the few with true scientific vision and
curiosity. But even those excellent scientific minds took a
beating by their own. <G>


Wendy








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                            Magonia Supplement 41

From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 20:26:30 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 15:51:39 -0400
Subject: Magonia Supplement 41


Here is the latest issue of the Magonia Supplement, edited by
John Harney. A net version is available at:

www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/00/ms41.htm

----------------------------------------------------------------

MAGONIA Supplement
No. 41   22 October 2002

EDITORIAL

In this issue we return to the theme of the ETH, which this
newsletter was originally started to discuss, with the aim of
getting believers in the ETH to present the best evidence for it
in a clear and rational manner and to list those UFO incidents
which they thought should be presented as the most promising
indications that the ETH might be true, and might eventually be
shown to be true. It was all in vain, as most ETH enthusiasts
greatly resent having their favourite UFO reports subjected to
critical examination and seeing all the flaws and
inconsistencies in the stories laid bare. However, we intend to
persist in exposing the weaknesses of the case for ET spaceships
and their occupants, in the hope that some ufologists will
eventually see sense.


LACK OF EVIDENCE IS THE MOST IMPORTANT OBJECTION TO THE
EXTRATERRESTRIAL HYPOTHESIS

John Harney

IT IS generally agreed that most UFO reports can be explained if
sufficient and accurate information about them is available to
investigators. It is said, though, that a small number of
reports remain unexplained despite careful investigation, and
that it is reasonable to suppose that these are sightings of
extraterrestrial spacecraft. This is known as the
Extraterrestrial Hypothesis (ETH).

The ETH is superficially attractive and apparently rational.
Among the great mass of UFO reports are some genuine sightings
of ET spacecraft and these are discovered by a process of
elimination, rather like separating gold from gravel. Problems
arise when a report seems impressive and is touted by believers
in the ETH as definitely or probably a genuine sighting of an
alien craft. When this happens, any further investigations or
critical examination of the evidence and testimony tend to be
unwelcome.

In cases where seemingly impressive reports have been subjected
to further investigation, though, evidence usually emerges to
show that there are mundane explanations available, or that
there are serious flaws and inconsistencies in the evidence and
testimony.

We are often told that certain cases can not be explained as
misperceptions or hoaxes because there were multiple witnesses,
so they must be genuine UFOs. In the first issue of this
newsletter, I briefly discussed the Trindade Island case of 16
January 1958, in which a UFO was allegedly seen and photographed
from the Brazilian navy vessel Almirante Saldanha, and noted
that there was no agreement as to how many witnesses there were.
(1) Anyone who reads the literature on this case will also note
that there are no statements available from these witnesses. It
was simply asserted that there had been many witnesses, even
though the US Assistant Naval Attach=E9, when he boarded the ship,
could not find anyone who claimed to have seen the UFO.

Since I published this, no one has been able to produce any
statements made by these alleged witnesses, only statements by
the principal witness, and by one or two people who were not
even there at the time, assuring us that many of those on board
the Almirante Saldanha actually saw the object.

This is the way UFO events tend to be treated when investigators
wish to bolster their belief in the ETH. They are inclined to
accept any details which point to exotic explanations and do not
inquire too closely into the reliability of the evidence and
testimony. Perhaps it would be helpful to those who are puzzled
by the rejection of the ETH by many ufologists, if I try to set
out the serious objections to it. Some of the objections which
are made are false or irrelevant, so I think it is a good idea
to try to compile a list of genuine ones. I'll start with a list
which includes what seem to me to be a mixture of valid and
invalid objections, given by Dr J. Allen Hynek in a lecture in
1983, (2) with my comments added:

1. "Failure of Sophisticated Surveillance Systems to Detect
Incoming or Outgoing UFOs."

This seems a fairly sound objection. Spacecraft entering orbit,
and space shuttles and satellites re-entering the atmosphere are
routinely detected and tracked, as are many meteors. Yet UFOs
are not tracked and spectacularly bright UFOs somehow fail to
appear on satellite pictures. It is, of course, claimed by some
ETH believers that UFO tracking information is kept secret, but
surveillance is carried out by different nations. There are also
many amateurs who track satellites and observe satellite re-
entries and meteor showers, and would surely notice and make
careful records of anything unusual and share them with other
enthusiasts.

2. "Gravitational and Atmospheric Considerations."
Extraterrestrials could not function on our planet as the beings
in CE3s are said to do. They could not walk about with ease or
inhale our air or, even more to the point, levitate.

CE3 sightings rarely have independent witnesses. This is not a
problem unless we choose to believe such stories and take them
as being real physical events rather than delusions. Before we
start to explain or theorise about a UFO event we need to
establish the facts of the case. Only if we can satisfy
ourselves that the incident really took place as described
should we include it in a list of UFO reports requiring
explanation, by means of the ETH or otherwise.

We do not know what beings from other planets could or could not
do if they landed on Earth, as we have no information about
them. Anyway, if any of these CE3 sightings could be
authenticated, then we would just have to accept them.

3. "Statistical Considerations". Distant worlds would not -
  could not - dispatch as many spacecraft in the numbers UFO
reports indicate.

Here we have to assume that a certain proportion of UFO reports
are sightings of ET spacecraft. But even if we assume only about
one per cent of reports to be genuine, this amounts to a large
number (which somehow escape detection by surveillance systems).

This is not a valid objection because it is purely speculative.
Assuming that intelligent beings exist elsewhere in the galaxy,
we have no knowledge of what they are capable of doing. For
example, it has been suggested that a sufficiently
technologically advanced civilisation could produce a self-
reproducing universal constructor, known as a von Neumann
machine after the man who first showed that such a machine is
theoretically possible. Once these machines got going they could
produce as many spacecraft as required at no extra cost to their
inventors. (3) So, at least in theory, there is no limit to the
number of alien spacecraft which could be visiting us, if we are
willing to consider the possibility that they might exist

4. "Elusive, Evasive and Absurd Behaviour of UFOs and Their
Occupants." The beings and the craft that bear them do not act
as we would were we to travel to a faraway planet.

As with objection 2, we have no good reasons to take such
observations too literally, and even if we do it is not
reasonable to suppose that ETs would behave as we would expect
them to.

5. "Isolation of the UFO Phenomenon in Space and Time: The
Cheshire Cat Effect". UFOs appear and disappear, staying visible
for no more than brief periods of time; their being observed at
Point A does not mean that they will be seen at Point B even if
last spotted heading in that direction.

It is not easy to interpret this. Presumably Hynek was referring
to what Jenny Randles has called the Oz Factor where the UFO is
seen only by a single witness or a small group of witnesses, and
other people in the vicinity at the same time notice nothing
unusual. To most rational ufologists such reports suggest a
psychological explanation should be sought.

6. "The Space 'Unworthiness' of the UFO". Most UFOs are too
small to sustain a crew over the vast distances of the cosmos.

This does not make sense. Obviously, interplanetary or
interstellar spacecraft would be too big to land on or to enter
the atmospheres of planets but would go into orbit and launch
smaller craft for this purpose. This is familiar from accounts
of manned and unmanned space missions, as well as science
fiction stories.

7. "The Problem of Astronomical Distances". Extraterrestrials
could not get here in any reasonable time. (Hynek considered
this to be a fatal objection.)

A number of answers to this objection have been suggested by
scientists and science fiction writers, including suspended
animation and generation starships, where those who arrive at
the intended destination are descendants of those who originally
set out on the voyage. It can be argued that the vast distances
involved make interstellar travel unlikely, but they certainly
do not make it impossible.


Most of the objections to the ETH raised by other scientists
also have no validity. For example, Carl Sagan argued that even
if only a very small fraction of UFO reports were genuine, then
there would have to be an unfeasibly large number of
interstellar spacecraft. (4) All of Sagan's objections are
purely speculative, and he dismisses UFO reports simply because
he was able to explain a few which he investigated.

So far we have only one valid objection to the ETH which is that
UFOs are not detected entering or leaving the Earth's
atmosphere. If such observations were obtained and authenticated
it would surely go a long way towards convincing many sceptics
that we are indeed being visited by ETs. The other objections
are incapable of being verified or are simply wrong, or purely
speculative.

The main practical objection, which we have not yet dealt with,
is that after 55 years of UFO investigations we not only have no
verified observations of UFOs entering and leaving the Earth's
atmosphere, but we also have no other clear, accurate and
undisputed observations which strongly suggest ET visitations,
and no undisputed physical evidence to be linked with the
alleged activities of ETs and their spacecraft. We should also
take into account the fact that all those who have claimed
contact with ETs - whether they are called contactees or
abductees - have failed to provide any new and important facts
about other planets, etc. which were not already known and which
could eventually be verified. For example, if the contactees of
the 1950s had published precise, detailed descriptions of other
planets, and if these descriptions had been found many years
later to have been true and accurate, then they would have to be
taken very seriously. But, as we all know, the vital information
which will confirm the truth of the ETH always slips from our
grasp, usually just when it seems it is about to be revealed to
the world.

Many ETH believers insist that the evidence is kept secret by US
government agencies. They never explain how these US agencies
manage to persuade every other government in the world to keep
the saucers secret also. They never explain how any government
agency can keep secret something which it does not control. Of
course there is some government secrecy about UFO reports, but
this concerns UFO investigation projects, not the UFOs
themselves. Any individual or organisation, official or amateur,
can conduct secret UFO investigations. Many of them do this so
that they can work undisturbed by news media, cranks and the
idly curious. They also do it because they wish to respect the
rights of witnesses to privacy.

If there are genuine, ET, UFOs they can appear anywhere at any
time and be seen by anyone. If there is physical evidence to be
had it can fall into the hands of any individual or
organisation. To maintain total secrecy about vital UFO evidence
is simply impossible.

Thus, while many objections to the ETH have been put forward, it
is at least logically possible. The only valid and important
objection to it is simply lack of evidence.


Notes

1. 'The ETH and its proponents', Magonia ETH Bulletin, No. 1,
March 1998

2. Hynek, J. Allen, 'The case against ET', in Walter H. Andrus,
Jnr., and Dennis W. Stacy (eds), MUFON 1983 UFO Symposium
Proceedings, 118-26, Mutual UFO Network, 1983 (quoted in Clark,
Jerome, The UFO Book: Encyclopedia of the Extraterrestrial,
Visible Ink, Detroit, 1998, 212)

3. Tipler, Frank J., 'Extraterrestrial intelligent beings do not
exist', in Regis, Edward, Jr., Extraterrestrials: Science and
Alien Intelligence, Cambridge University Press, 1985. Tipler's
argument is that as ET spaceships are apparently not present in
our solar system even though there has been plenty of time for
ETs to evolve and develop von Neumann machines, then they don't
exist. However, he admits: "But the evidence is not utterly
conclusive; beings with extremely advanced technology could be
present in our solar system and make their presence undetectable
should they wish to do. The point is that a belief in the
existence of  extraterrestrial intelligent beings anywhere in
the galaxy is not significantly different from the widespread
belief that UFOs are extraterrestrial spaceships. In fact, I
strongly suspect the psychological motivation of both beliefs to
be the same, namely 'The expectation that we are going to be
saved from ourselves by some miraculous interstellar
intervention . . . '"

4. Sagan, Carl, 'The extraterrestrial and other hypotheses', in
Sagan, Carl and Thornton Page (eds), UFOs-A Scientific Debate,
Cornell University Press, 1973


--
John Rimmer
Magonia Magazine
www.magonia.demon.co.uk







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                     Crop Circle Genuine Says Scientist

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 16:01:39 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 16:01:39 -0400
Subject: Crop Circle Genuine Says Scientist

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/argus/index.ssf?/xml/story.ssf/html_standard.xsl?
/base/news/1035322220117461.xml

FG crop circle genuine, says scientist

10/22/02
By Lisa Waggoner

The Hillsboro Argus

Forest Grove - Oregon-- A circle that cropped up in Lyle
Spiesschaert's wheat field this summer is the real deal, not a
hoax, say a scientist and expert who specialize in crop circle
studies.

The formation, in the shape of three joined circles topped by a
crescent with an adjoining key or F shape, shares several
characteristics of genuine circles, says Dr. William C.
Levengood, a biophysicist from Pinelandia, Mich., who studies
the phenomenon.

Over the past 10 years study of hundreds of crop formations have
revealed certain anomalies which, when present, are hallmarks of
genuine formation, those which cannot be attributed to people,
says Carol Pedersen, Oregon Branch Coordinator, Center for Crop
Circle Studies.

Like other crop circles that cannot be attributed to human
activity, the Forest Grove crop circle had:

Magnetic particle deposits higher than the average of the
controls (control areas) Soil within the circle had over 90
times the upper limit found in normal soil.

(Wheat) node expansions greater than average of control sets. Of
44 formation sets of wheat stalks, 36 had greater node
expansions.

A strong resemblance between its F-shaped downed area and wave
guides, constructed metal tubes used to efficiently direct
microwaves or ultra-high frequency energy.

Linear lay patterns in the F-shaped area, rather than circular
lay patterns as within the circular formation.

Significantly suppressed seed germination from plants taken from
within the crop circle, compared to plants outside it.

What the residents of Forest Grove witnessed this July was not a
fake circle made to boost ticket sales for the movie Signs as
(some) media (were) quick to promote, nor was it a joke made by
the teens buzzing around in fairy costumes with wings on who
claimed they made it, says Pedersen.

It is part of the mysterious and ongoing puzzle which science is
helping us to understand.


[UFO UpSates thanks http://www.anomalist.com/ for the lead]






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                    Japan Today "Do You Believe In UFOs?"

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 16:06:25 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 16:06:25 -0400
Subject: Japan Today "Do You Believe In UFOs?"

http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=popvox&id=304


October 23, 2002

Japan Today's Sachie Kanda walked around here and there to ask:

Do you believe in UFOs?

John Mack is more than a Harvard professor; he is a respected
author (his book on T.E. Lawrence, 'A Prince of Our Disorder',
won the Pulitzer Prize in 1977), a psychiatrist who helped found
the clinical psychiatry department at Cambridge Hospital and a
noted scientific advocate of environmental and antiwar causes.
Under Mack's hypnotic guidance, the young man "remembered" being
abducted repeatedly by aliens, taken to a spaceship and having a
probe inserted in his anus.

What do Japanese think about aliens and UFOs?


Risa Aoki, 24

"I do not buy any theories of UFOs and aliens. No one or no
media can offer definite proof of their existence. How can I
believe in things with no evidence? It is ridiculous."


Issei Takigawa, 50

"My wife says she saw a UFO but I think it was an illusion. I
often see TV programs on UFOs, but I never believe them. I think
that people who want to promote fantasies are making up stories
and manipulating us. There are so many reports of flying objects
caught on film but nothing is ever proven. I need more tangible
sources before I believe in UFOs. Of course, my wife laughs at
me and says I am difficult."


Masahiro Miyauchi, 29

"Well, I am very romantic and believe in things I can't see. So
does that answer your question?"


Atsuko Oikawa, 34

"I'm always glued to the TV whenever there is a documentary
about UFOs on. Such programs make me feel like I am actually
seeing a UFO."


Mayu Kondo, 27

"Since a couple of friends of mine who I trust have seen UFOs, I
do think they exist. One of my friends called me right after she
saw a UFO. She was very excited and clearly told me what she
saw. She was very convincing. I hope UFOs will be identified in
the future."


Tokie Tsuruta, 78

"I do not because they cannot be scientifically proven. It's not
worth my while believing in UFOs because the truth about them
will never be revealed before I say sayonara."


Sana Watanabe, 22

"I do not. The reason why I do not believe in UFOs is simple.
Mars is the only planet near us capable of sustaining life, but
it is still impossible for any living creature to live there, so
how could a spaceship be built in such an environment?"


Kazuki Maeda, 26

"Of course, I do. Space is immense, so why should Earth be the
only planet with life? Anything is possible out there. There are
so many things we have not discovered yet and UFOs are among
them."



[UFO UpSates thanks http://www.anomalist.com/ for the lead]






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   Oct > Oct 24

                Re: Educational UFO Website For Scientists -

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 12:56:16 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 16:11:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Educational UFO Website For Scientists -


 >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 01:53:21 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Educational UFO Website For Scientists

 >>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 22:57:35 -0700
 >>Subject: Re: Educational UFO Website For Scientists

 >>>From: Bernard Haisch <admin@ufoskeptic.org>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 13:23:59 -0400
 >>>Subject: Educational UFO Website For Scientists

 >>>This is simply to invite you to have a look at your convenience
 >>>at:

 >>>http://www.ufoskeptic.org

 >>>my attempt to educate fellow scientists about the possible
 >>>reality and potential significance of this topic.

 >>>Regards,

 >>>Bernard Haisch (astronomer)

 >>Is anyone besides me impressed and excited that Dr. Haisch is
 >>"on board"? The guy ain't no slouch. He may be the most
 >>credentialed scientist since Hynek to say, "Maybe we should take
 >>another look..."

 >>I've been to his website, and I like some of the ideas he puts
 >>forth, such as m-brane theory. I think this is a big break for
 >>ufology, and an important website.

 >I'm certainly impressed with Dr. Haisch and his website.

 >I've had a link to it on my own site for about a year now. I
 >show relatively few links, and seldom put new ones up. I'm more
 >inclined to take them down.


Larry:

I see this as a sign that Ufology may be on the brink of an
upswing... this, along with "Taken" and the birth of the
Committee for Freedom of Information, all point to yet another
'rebirth' of UFO interest, much like the one fostered by
'Intruders', 'UFO Cover-up: Live' and the like.

CUFOS, don't give up yet.

==JJS==








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                Re: Educational UFO Website For Scientists -

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 13:12:02 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 16:32:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Educational UFO Website For Scientists -


 >From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
 >To: UFO Updates <UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 08:47:07 -0600
 >Subject: Re: Educational UFO Website For Scientists

 >>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
 >>To: UFO Updates <UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 22:57:35 -0700
 >>Subject: Re: Educational UFO Website For Scientists -

 >>Is anyone besides me impressed and excited that Dr. Haisch is
 >>"on board"? The guy ain't no slouch. He may be the most
 >>credentialed scientist since Hynek to say, "Maybe we should take
 >>another look..."

 >>I've been to his website, and I like some of the ideas he puts
 >>forth, such as m-brane theory. I think this is a big break for
 >>ufology, and an important website.

 >An excellent website to be sure and most welcome. However, I do
 >detect a tad of elitism. As an example his deliberate short
 >reading list failing to list excellent reference books, such as
 >"The UFO Encyclopedia" by Jerome Clark or thoroughly documented
 >historical background materials on some of the people involved
 >in early investigations, such as the works of Mike Hall and
 >myself...but then again, even scientists sometimes fail to
 >consider the historical aspects in their formulation of theory.

 >I say a tad bit elitist only because he fails to acknowledge the
 >life-time works of some of the best lay persons in the field,
 >who where there when the reputable scientist scoffed. In other
 >words, if you are not a recognized and credentialed scientist,
 >you have nothing of importance to contribute. But, then again,
 >it's a website for scientists; speaks to other scientists and
 >allows scientists to theorize, even though theories have been
 >made over the course of 50+ years by both scientists and
 >extremely knowledgable lay persons.

You and I are probably both of two minds on this. We lay people
have done all this work partially in hopes of attracting the
attention of the eggheads, the guys with alphabet soup after
their names. Well, we may be on the brink of achieving just
that. Let's not carp about "credit" just yet. If I see a group
of real-live scientific types talking amongst themselves about
seriously acknowledging the UFO issue, I'll be very happy
indeed. Haisch, I'm sure, is not unaware of who laid the
groundwork, but he knows that in order to get the other egg-
  heads talking, he'll make more progress quoting Hynek and
McDonald than quoting Keyhoe and Greenwood...great as those lay
minds may be.

Besides, something tells me the press will not allow the
eggheads to bask in too much glory. After all it has been
mainstream scientists all along who have sneered down their
pince-nezzes at this subject, throwing reporters such slop as
"hogwash" and "people see what they want to see"; if they
suddenly have to eat crow, my guess is the press will gleefully
remind them of it ad nauseum.

==JJS==








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                     Re: Magonia Supplement 41 - Speiser

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 13:32:48 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 20:51:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 41 - Speiser


 >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 20:26:30 +0100
 >Subject: Magonia Supplement 41

 >Here is the latest issue of the Magonia Supplement, edited by
 >John Harney. A net version is available at:

 >www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/00/ms41.htm

 >----------------------------------------------------------------

 >MAGONIA Supplement
 >No. 41  22 October 2002

 >EDITORIAL


 >5. "Isolation of the UFO Phenomenon in Space and Time: The
 >Cheshire Cat Effect". UFOs appear and disappear, staying visible
 >for no more than brief periods of time; their being observed at
 >Point A does not mean that they will be seen at Point B even if
 >last spotted heading in that direction.

 >It is not easy to interpret this. Presumably Hynek was referring
 >to what Jenny Randles has called the Oz Factor where the UFO is
 >seen only by a single witness or a small group of witnesses, and
 >other people in the vicinity at the same time notice nothing
 >unusual. To most rational ufologists such reports suggest a
 >psychological explanation should be sought.


I don't think this is a completely accurate representation of
the OZ factor, or maybe I'm the one who doesn't understand it,
but I've been given to believe that it refers to a "feeling of
high strangeness" reported by many witnesses, especially in
Close Encounters.

It is a feeling of isolation in space and time, that the
experience is being lifted out of the tapestry of our daily
reality and "highlighted" in such a way that time seems to stand
still and space consists only of the object, the witness, and
the intervening locus.

My wife described this feeling to me after her close-encounter -
  without ever having heard of the Oz factor. It may be a normal
occurrence that accompanies any strange, out-of-the-ordinary or
traumatic event, but it's iniquitousness in UFO encounters is
especially noteworthy; further, some of these witnesses have
also had more mundane traumas such as traffic accidents, yet
seem to speak of the feeling during a UFO encounter as
"something completely different."

==JJS==






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                      Re: Magonia Supplement 41 - Hall

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 20:58:41 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 20:53:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 41 - Hall


 >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 20:26:30 +0100
 >Subject: Magonia Supplement 41

 >Here is the latest issue of the Magonia Supplement, edited by
 >John Harney. A net version is available at:


 >MAGONIA Supplement
 >No. 41   22 October 2002

 >EDITORIAL

 >In this issue we return to the theme of the ETH, which this
 >newsletter was originally started to discuss, with the aim of
 >getting believers in the ETH to present the best evidence for it
 >in a clear and rational manner and to list those UFO incidents
 >which they thought should be presented as the most promising
 >indications that the ETH might be true, and might eventually be
 >shown to be true. It was all in vain, as most ETH enthusiasts
 >greatly resent having their favourite UFO reports subjected to
 >critical examination and seeing all the flaws and
 >inconsistencies in the stories laid bare. However, we intend to
 >persist in exposing the weaknesses of the case for ET spaceships
 >and their occupants, in the hope that some ufologists will
 >eventually see sense.

<snip>

John,

What a pack of nonsense! You (and/or John Harney) don't bother
to read or study, or respond to, publications like The UFO
Evidence, Volume II, which provide overwhelming reason to take
the ETH seriously and that indeed go into hardcore cases in great
detail.

Until you do, Magonia continues to be an advocate of ex cathedra
"truth" and the debunker party line, quite divorced from any
rational analysis of data.


   - Dick









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                    Re: Sci Fi News Conference - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 17:32:06 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 20:56:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Sci Fi News Conference - Maccabee


 >From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 03:09:49 -0400
 >Subject: Sci Fi News Conference

 >presidentialufo@canada.com wrote:

 >>Larry

 >>I understand you are attending the news conference
 >>tomorrow.

 >>If you take notes or post anything can you be sure to
 >>send me a copy.

 >>I ran a story on Podesta's role, and have received
 >>almost 11,000 hits on my web sites today.

 >>I would like to post a timely update for all my new
 >>friends.

 >Okay, Grant, here's your little pound of flesh:

<snip>

Thanks for taking and publishing notes on the conference. Too
bad, as _always_ seems to happen, other news preempts the UFO
press conferences!







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   Oct > Oct 24

                    CI: TransOrbital to Launch Moon Probe

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 16:53:10 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 21:00:53 -0400
Subject: CI: TransOrbital to Launch Moon Probe



Cydonian Imperative
10-24-02


TransOrbital to Launch Moon Probe

by Mac Tonnies / http://mactonnies.com/cydonia.html


Related links:

http://www.transorbital.net

http://mactonnies.com/spacelinks.html

http://www.marssociety.org


TransOrbital, a private space exploration company, will soon
send a sophisticated robotic lander to the Moon. Private
ventures such as this challenge NASA's monolithic reign, and
indicate that the first manned Mars mission might be a
commercial, rather than a governmental, venture.

Some hope that TransOrbital's probe will help resolve the
nagging question of anomalies on the lunar surface. Many
suspiciously artificial-looking features have been noted by
analysts of Apollo and Clementine images. If the Moon harbors
alien artifacts, then proper archaeological study will prove
much easier than study of Martian enigmas such as the Face; as
author David Jinks points out, the Moon is literally only a few
days away, while a manned mission to Mars may be decades in our
future. If we can establish a human presence on the Moon using
1960s hardware (however brief), we can improve on that
exponentially with technology of the 21st century.

Artifacts or not, privatized exploration of the Moon is a
positive step in the bureaucracy-riddled quest to set foot on
the Red Planet.

-end-







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   Oct > Oct 24

                     Scientists Weigh In On Crop Circles

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 02:09:22 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 21:03:12 -0400
Subject: Scientists Weigh In On Crop Circles


Source: The Saginaw News - Michigan

http://www.mlive.com/news/sanews/index.ssf?/xml/story.ssf/html_standard.
xsl?/base/news-3/1034693419230960.xml

The first press report - The Saginaw News, October 11 - can be
found at the UFO UpDates archive at:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/oct/m18-017.shtml

Stig

***

Scientists weigh in on crop circles

Tuesday, October 15, 2002

BRYCE HOFFMAN
THE SAGINAW NEWS

**

Scientists disagree whether two crop circles discovered last
week in Fremont Township are the work of hoaxers or an
"alternate intelligence."

Findings from the Michigan Mutual UFO Network are inconclusive
pending laboratory tests that could take weeks, said Charles N.
Lietzau, a scientific consultant.

An investigation by the Tri-City Skeptics and Saginaw Valley
State University professors favors hoaxers.

Farmer Gordon G. Turner, 59, discovered the circles -- one 20
feet in diameter and the other 72 feet -- Wednesday while
harvesting field corn on a parcel north of Roosevelt west of
South Hemlock.

"There are a few little hints" the circles are authentic,
Lietzau said. "It's 700 feet from the road. If a hoaxer really
wanted to do a hoax, you would assume they would do it close
enough to the road to be seen."

The Michigan Mutual UFO Network describes itself as "America's
oldest, largest organization devoted to investigating reports of
unidentified flying objects and even more problematic claims of
human abduction."

The real proof, Lietzau said, probably lies in the cells of the
downed corn stalks. Crop circles that defy explanation generally
show evidence that electromagnetic energy, such as microwaves,
has altered the plant tissue, he said.

"I need conclusive evidence one way or the other," he said.
"It's so late in the season, it might not be possible."

Lietzau, a biology teacher in the Detroit public school system,
has a doctorate in zoology and cell physiology from Wayne State
University. He spent about five hours examining the circles and
collecting samples.

The Tri-City Skeptics, a group of Saginaw Valley residents who
search for rational explanations for so-called paranormal
phenomena, sent a four-member team (including a Labrador
retriever) to the farm Saturday.

"The entire circle could have been made in as few as 20
minutes," said Gerald L. Peterson, co-founder and psychology
professor at SVSU. "We found no evidence that would require us
to invoke non-human explanations."

The skeptics say anyone easily could have knocked down the
roughly 2,000 corn stalks with a boot heel or a piece of wood
with ropes attached. A 36-foot rope could have served as a
guideline from the center point of the larger circle, he said.

An inch of rain between Oct. 1 and Oct. 4 would have erased
footprints, Peterson said.

Soil tests in SVSU laboratories found no differences between
soil from inside and outside the circle. The skeptics have
forwarded samples to a leading crop circle investigator for
further analysis.

Although animals are said to avoid the circles, the dog brought
by the skeptics showed no aversion, Peterson said. There is a
report that a horse refused to enter the circle, Lietzau said.

Turner said hundreds of visitors have come to see the crop
circles on top of regular visits by television news crews.

"It's a little more attention than I expected," he said. "Very
few people thought that it's a hoax.

"Forty years ago when I was in school, they talked about men on
the moon and space stations and people living in space. That was
all just comic book stuff. I wouldn't rule anything out now."

**

=A9 2002 Saginaw News. Used with permission
Copyright 2002 Michigan Live. All Rights Reserved.







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   Oct > Oct 24

                      BBC Snaps Up Spielberg's 'Taken'

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 02:17:57 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 21:05:50 -0400
Subject: BBC Snaps Up Spielberg's 'Taken'


Source: The Guardian (UK)

http://media.guardian.co.uk/broadcast/story/0,7493,817700,00.html

Stig

***

BBC snaps up Spielberg series

Jason Deans
Thursday October 24, 2002
The Guardian

**

The BBC has snapped up Steven Spielberg's latest TV epic, a 20-
hour mini-series about alien abductions, in a deal said to be
worth =A32m.

With the series, Taken, Mr Spielberg re-visits territory he
covered in his blockbuster 1977 movie Close Encounters of The
Third Kind, in which the main character - played by Richard
Dreyfuss - becomes obsessed with UFOs and is last seen
disappearing into an alien spaceship.

The BBC is understood to have beaten competition from Channel 4
to secure the show, which will be broadcast on BBC2 and BBC3
next year.

Taken follows three American families over 50 years of close
encounters with aliens. It begins over the skies of France
during the second world war and continues through to the present
day.

The drama's large ensemble cast includes Heather Donahue, the
young star of cult horror movie The Blair Witch Project.

BBC2's controller, Jane Root, will be hoping Taken can repeat
the success of Mr Spielberg's last major TV mini series, Band of
Brothers.

The second world war epic attracted audiences of up to 6 million
viewers when it was broadcast on BBC2 last autumn.

In the US, cable network the Sci Fi Channel is planning to
broadcast Taken in two-hour instalments over 10 consecutive
nights in December.

Taken is being made by DreamWorks, the film and TV studio
founded by Mr Spielberg, Jeffrey Katzenberg and David Geffen in
1994.

In a separate move, the BBC has also renewed its film output
deal with DreamWorks.

The new deal will give the BBC UK terrestrial premieres of movie
titles including Castaway, Meet The Parents, Minority Report,
American Beauty, Shrek, AI: Artificial Intelligence, The
Mexican, Road To Perdition and A Beautiful Mind.

Channel 5 recently acquired DreamWorks' cop drama Boomtown, the
most critically acclaimed new show of the autumn season in the
US.

**

MediaGuardian.co.uk
Copyright Guardian Newspapers Limited 2002








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   Oct > Oct 25

              Re: SETI Launches New Detection Scale - Deardorff

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 18:13:48 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 09:05:25 -0400
Subject: Re: SETI Launches New Detection Scale - Deardorff



 >From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 15:07:49 UT
 >Subject: Re: SETI Launches New Detection Scale

 >>From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 08:14:11 +0200
 >>Subject: SETI Launches New Detection Scale

 >>Source: SABC News - South African Broadcasting Corporation

 >>http://www.sabcnews.com/sci_tech/science/0,1009,45459,00.html

 >>Stig

 >>International SETI launches new detection scale

 >>October 21, 2002, 06:10 PM

 >>**

 >>A new scale designed to give the public an expert view of any
 >>claimed detection of extraterrestrial intelligence has been
 >>launched by the International Academy of Astronautics' Search
 >>for Extraterrestrial Intelligence Permanent Study Group at the
 >>World Space Congress in Houston.

 >>The Rio Scale was initiated by Drs. Ivan Almar of Hungary and
 >>Jill Tarter of the SETI Institute in California to give the
 >>media and the public an idea of the credibility and importance -
 >> as determined by a panel of SETI scientists - of any claim that
 >>intelligence elsewhere in the universe has been detected.
 >>...
 >>So what Rio Scale rating would they get? The scale runs from
 >>zero (for non-credible claims of detection) to ten (for a
 >>completely reliable detection.) The SETI type detection in the
 >>movie Contact gets high marks near 10 because of the
 >>confirmations by telescopes around the world. On the other hand
 >>a claim of a real detection in the EQ Peg hoax reaches only 3-4
 >>on the scale during the claim, dropping to zero when a large
 >>radio telescope proves the signal is false.

 >Here is a webpage explaining the Rio scale together with a Rio
 >Scale calculator.

 >http://www.setileague.org/iaaseti/rioscale.htm

 >Perhaps we need to have some sort of rating scale similar to
 >this for UFO sightings.


Hi Bill,

That seems like a useful idea to me, provided the UFO scale were
easily convertible into a probability, p.

p = 1 would mean it was/is definitely a "genuine" UFO (Photos,
multiple witnesses & other evidence all agree, a large piece of
the UFO and/or alien(s) would be available somewhere for
qualified scientists to examine and sample, and report on). Of
course, no case as yet available to us reaches this level of
certainty.

p = 0.5 would mean it could be a genuine UFO, but just as likely
be a mistaken identity or hoax. Complete uncertainty.

p = 0 would mean it was definitely a mistaken identity or hoax
(hoaxer confessed and showed how he/she did it, or the witness's
description fits a known, natural or man-made
phenomenon/artifact in all details, including timing and
location.)

Intermediate values would need intermediate definitions rather
like as done with the Rio scale.

The value of using probabilities is that once such p values have
been assigned to a large number of potential UFO cases (say,
those with p>0.5), their probabilities can be combined to give a
single overall probability assessment that "genuine" UFOs exist,
using a simple formula that can be derived using Bayesian
statistics. The final answer could very well be as large as P =
0.99999... SETI is only looking for ONE genuine event, so they
evidently aren't yet concerned with accumulating probabilities
from multiple events.

Somewhere along the line, the definition of a "genuine" UFO
would have to be set forth.

This proposed probability p is rather like converting the Rio
scale to p via:  p = 0.5 +/- RIO/20 . The + sign applies if the
"genuine" evidence predominates, otherwise the - sign applies.
But we'd want our own scale.


Jim Deardorff








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   Oct > Oct 25

                     Does The Sun Have A Doomsday Twin?

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 03:54:41 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 09:07:24 -0400
Subject: Does The Sun Have A Doomsday Twin?


Source: The Daily Telegraph (UK),

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/connected/main.jhtml?view=DETAILS&grid=P8&targetRule=
10&xml=%2Fconnected%2F2002%2F10%2F18%2Fecfuniv116.xml

Stig

***

Does the Sun have a doomsday twin?

By Paul Blakemore

(Filed: 18/10/2002)

**

In 1846, researchers noticed that Uranus was wobbling in a way
that confounded Newton's Law of Motion. This meant they had two
options: rewrite the most time-honoured of the laws of physics,
or "invent" a new planet to account for the extra gravitational
pull. Compared to Newton's reputation, an eighth planet seemed
much less massive and Neptune was discovered.

Today scientists working in the University of Louisiana have
discovered a statistical anomaly of similar proportions.
Professors John Matese, Patrick Whitman and Daniel Whitmire have
studied the orbits of comets for 20 years, and their recent
findings have led to startling theories.

Intrigued by the work of two palaeontologists working for the
University of Chicago, Prof Whitmire, along with NASA colleague
Dr Al Jackson, had earlier attempted to explain the amazing
discovery that six apocalyptic events, including the extinction
of the dinosaurs, have all occurred, like clockwork, every 26 to
30 million years. To try to explain this mass extinction cycle,
they looked to the possibility that comet showers were to blame.

The latest effort of Matese, Whitman and Whitmire studies 82
comets from the huge cloud of comets, called the Oort cloud,
that exists around our solar system. They took the aphelia of
these comets, the points on their orbit that are farthest from
our Sun, and plotted them on a globe. Expecting to find an even
distribution, they instead found that a particular band of sky,
about one sixth the total, contained more than one quarter of
all the comets, and that about 25 per cent of the comets coming
from this cloud have anomalous paths.

So what was affecting the orbits? They went on to theorise that
the best explanation is the existence of a previously unknown
body - that our solar system is made up of the Sun and a shadowy
partner, either a brown dwarf or a massive planet, in a wide
binary system. In effect, the solar system had two stars, the
Sun and a dark companion, spinning around each other.

Now I know what you're thinking Surely I'd have noticed a second
Sun in the sky? But, as Prof Whitmire explained, the process of
assumption based on statistical anomalies has always been a
cornerstone of scientific discovery. According to their current
theory, he says, "the companion is a brown dwarf star or massive
planet of mass between two and six times the mass of Jupiter". A
brown dwarf is a star too small to sustain the nuclear fusion
that powers our Sun, and so is relatively cool (surface
temperature of less than 1500C) and so also very dim, being
barely hot enough to give off light.

But it gets worse. Under their original theory, called the
Nemesis theory, this small dark star, which lurks at around
90,000 times farther away than the Earth is from the Sun, may be
on an orbit that, once every 30 million years, ploughs it into
the densely packed inner cloud. Here its immense gravitational
pull would drag out several of the Oort comets and give them the
"kick" needed to send them towards the Sun on orbits perilously
close to the Earth. This explains, in the professor's view, the
ominous mass extinction cycle, due to regular periods of
increased cometary activity every 30 million years.

However, before we head for the bomb shelters, we should take
heed of the professor's words: "As a practical matter our models
will never be generally accepted (and shouldn't be) until the
actual object is found." However stressing that they are
"sufficiently plausible to give incentives for others to look".

Today, their current paper has moved away from the Nemesis
theory and proposed, on the basis of comet orbits, a less
massive planet about three times the mass of Jupiter. None the
less, with an explanation for the mass extinction cycle yet to
be found, he has admitted that they may not be mutually
exclusive; and that there could be two dark stars, one a failed
partner to our own, and another one that is acting almost as an
alarm clock for doomsday. Even so, he says: "I'm still hopeful
that ultimately these might turn out to be the same object.".

"An original idea in science is often a gut instinct, but this
should not influence the development of the idea," says the
professor. "I always try to be my own worst critic". The
scientific world remains intrigued but sceptical. However, the
recent bombardment of Jupiter is a reminder that if the team is
right, there may not be many around to hear them say: "I told
you so."

**

Paul Blakemore was second in the younger category of The Daily
Telegraph/BASF young science writer awards. The competition will
be launched again in a few weeks.


[Link:] 21 August 2002: The good, the mad and the inspirational


Related links:

An end to the universe


External links:

Brown dwarfs - Chandra X-ray Observatory

The Oort cloud - Solar Views

The Daily Telegraph/BASF Young Science Writer Awards 2002


Copyright of Telegraph Group Limited 2002.








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   Oct > Oct 25

                 Computer Program To Send Data Back In Time

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 05:01:11 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 09:09:06 -0400
Subject: Computer Program To Send Data Back In Time


Source: UPI

http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID021001-125805-3380r

Stig

***

Computer program to send data back in time

UPI Science News
 From the Science & Technology Desk
Published 10/1/2002 2:02 PM

**

PRINCETON, N.J., Oct. 1 (UPI) - It sounds like something out of
the movie "Back to the Future," but one forward-thinking
physicist says as computer technology progresses, scientists may
be able to use wormholes to send answers to calculations back to
their own past to solve problems.

By basing computers off wormholes, or tunnels in time,
theoretical physicist Todd Brun of the Institute for Advanced
Studies in Princeton said they could be used to solve problems
that would take a classical computer longer than the lifetime of
the universe to solve.

"They could have amazing - almost magical - efficiency," Brun
told United Press International.

Still, Brun cautions he "would be amazed if anyone built
anything like this in my lifetime. I would not be amazed if no
one ever built anything like this."

Computers in development work off the bizarre properties of
quantum physics, where subatomic particles can apparently spin
two opposite directions simultaneously. Such "quantum computers"
can in theory operate much more powerfully than classical
computers on certain problems - breaking codes in seconds that
would take classical computers years to crack.

These successes led Brun to ask whether other unlikely areas in
physics could help solve computer problems. "As long as one is
speculating, one might as well speculate wildly," Brun said.

The physicist focused on space-time loops known as "closed
timelike curves." These distortions can develop because of
wormholes - tunnels that theoretically can catapult anything
traveling through them faster than light or back in time.
Wormholes are allowed by Einstein's theory of relativity,
although whether they are practically possible is another
matter.

Brun developed a program for such a computer to solve extremely
difficult mathematical problems, such as factoring very large
numbers. At the start, the computer checks the wormhole. If in
the future, the computer solved the equation, it sends the
answer encoded in bursts of particles back in time through the
wormhole.

The program essentially works because of steps "which are never
actually executed," Brun said. Such a computer essentially works
similarly to a familiar time travel paradox.

"A brilliant young inventor receives a message from her future
self, telling her that she is going to invent a time machine,
and giving her the details of its construction," Brun said. "She
duly builds the machine and demonstrates it. When she is old and
famous, she sends a message back to her younger self, telling
her that she is going to invent a time machine, and giving her
the details of its construction.

"This situation is self-consistent, but still very strange. The
information on how to build a time machine appears out of
nowhere," he explained.

While this may seem "quite bizarre," Brun said such computers
"don't defy logic, only common sense."

What happens if the computer is approached with a problem that
would take so long to solve, the wormhole or the universe would
end first? Or what happens if the wormhole can only send
information backward for a short amount of time? Steps in the
program break such incredibly difficult problems into smaller
and smaller issues, until each is reduced enough to be solved
within the computer's lifetime, at which point the answer is
sent back in time.

Of course, the existence of such a computer depends on the
unproven existence of wormholes. Even if wormholes do exist and
can be harnessed, they could cause space-time fluctuations that
destroy the wormhole.

"If there are fluctuations, however small, then they would wipe
out any answers," said theoretical physicist David Deutsch of
the Center for Quantum Computation at the University of Oxford
in Britain. "Wiping out the fluctuations is in itself a
computation that involves an arbitrarily large amount of work.
There has been work on whether these loops are realistic, and
everyone disagrees."

Brun believes these strange conclusions are less likely to lead
to supercomputers than they are to show the existence of
wormholes is even more unlikely.

"I think its implications are very interesting, but mostly for
theory rather than practice," he said.

Brun described his program in research submitted to the journal
Foundations of Physics Letters.

(Reported by Charles Choi, UPI Science News, in New York.)

**

Copyright 2002 United Press International







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                          Re: CUFOS Crisis - Gates

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 23:49:40 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 09:10:35 -0400
Subject: Re: CUFOS Crisis - Gates


 >From: Remy Lechevalier <remy.lechevalier@cp.finances.gouv.fr>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 15:52:56 +0200
 >Subject: Re: CUFOS Crisis


 >Hello, List


 >>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 14:56:03 +0100
 >>Subject: Re: CUFOS Crisis

 >>I would add to my list of flourishing European magazines
 >>Phenomena, the French language magazine - 36 pages, glossy
 >>colour cover, professional production and well illustrated. The
 >>subscription price is 22.90 euros, very close to IUR's rate of
 >>$25.00 (UFO Revista is even cheaper at 16 euros). Admittedly,
 >>the French magazine does have a wider language base than the
 >>Swedish or Italian publications

 >This comes a bit late but I received the 10/21 messages just now.

 >Phenomena is hardly flourishing. Nominally a quarterly, its
 >publication has become quite unpredictable. Two years ago, they
 >stopped being distributed on Parisian news stands because of
 >cost and competition for space on the stands. The latest
 >issue is not distributed at all and is available only through
 >mail and subscription. Much as I disagreed with the overall
 >position of the magazine, I think it will be a substantial loss
 >if the magazine had to cease publication.

 >The other important French UFO magazine, Lumi=E8res dans la Nuit
 >is not doing much better. Available only through subscription,
 >it must be around 1000 subscribers if I remember well (figures
 >given by Gildas Bourdais at an UFO lecture, a while ago : he
 >will correct me if I'm wrong).

It would seem that John is not well informed on the status of
the French UFO magazines and they are having similar problems.
One wonders what the true reality is behind all the other so
called flourishing UFO magazines in Europe....

Cheers,

Robert







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                                    APRO?

From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 22:23:53 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 09:11:59 -0400
Subject: APRO?


Hi List

Can someone tell me what happened to Aerial Phenomena Research
Organization - APRO ? I can't find them anywhere. If someone can
point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it.


Thank you,

Brian
HBCC UFO








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             Re: Educational UFO Website For Scientists - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 23:35:07 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 09:14:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Educational UFO Website For Scientists - Hatch


 >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 12:56:16 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Educational UFO Website For Scientists

 >>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 01:53:21 -0700
 >>Subject: Re: Educational UFO Website For Scientists

<snip>

 >>>>http://www.ufoskeptic.org

 >>>>my attempt to educate fellow scientists about the possible
 >>>>reality and potential significance of this topic.

 >>>>Regards,

 >>>>Bernard Haisch (astronomer)

 >>>Is anyone besides me impressed and excited that Dr. Haisch is
 >>>"on board"? The guy ain't no slouch. He may be the most
 >>>credentialed scientist since Hynek to say, "Maybe we should take
 >>>another look..."

 >>>I've been to his website, and I like some of the ideas he puts
 >>>forth, such as m-brane theory. I think this is a big break for
 >>>ufology, and an important website.

 >>I'm certainly impressed with Dr. Haisch and his website.

 >>I've had a link to it on my own site for about a year now. I
 >>show relatively few links, and seldom put new ones up. I'm more
 >>inclined to take them down.

 >Larry:

 >I see this as a sign that Ufology may be on the brink of an
 >upswing... this, along with "Taken" and the birth of the
 >Committee for Freedom of Information, all point to yet another
 >'rebirth' of UFO interest, much like the one fostered by
 >'Intruders', 'UFO Cover-up: Live' and the like.

 >CUFOS, don't give up yet.

 >==JJS==


Hi Jim:

The Haisch http://www.ufoskeptic.org site has been up for months
if not years. I'm just glad to see its there, but do not expect
a major reaction now.

To me at least, public interest in UFOs goes up and down like a
roller coaster. Not in neat periodic cycles like tides and
temperatures, its more like the irregular almost chaotic swings
in the stock market or more likely waves of UFO sightings
frequencies. If tied to the latter, there is probably a lag
time, so that public interest crests months after the actual
waves subside.

If you smooth the public interest curve out over decades, its
probably not much different now than in the 60s or 70s, maybe
somewhat higher. That is a wild hip-shot on my part of course.

What _is_ different is the Internet reaching into so many homes
now. Everything is fast, cheap and easy. UFO info (of various
merits) is there pretty much for free. Previously, people had to
subscribe to one journal or another to keep even belatedly up do
date. Not so any more.

This affects printed publications of all types. Hobbyist
magazines are probably dying on the vine, same for cook books,
you name it.

I have an Italian cookbook or two. I didn't bother to dig it out
for a nice Pesto recipe, I used the Net. There I found dozens or
hundreds of recipes, more than any reasonable bookshelf would
hold, and all for free.

Paper media must be taking an awful beating, even newspapers. I
use the net to see if its raining outside. Sorry for the rant.


Best

- Larry








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                      Russia: Another 'Alien' Skeleton?

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 07:14:12 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 09:27:13 -0400
Subject: Russia: Another 'Alien' Skeleton?



SOURCE: OVNIVISION (Chile)
DATE: October 24, 2002

RUSSIAN ARCHAEOLOGISTS IN A BIND OVER ALLEGED "ALIEN" SKELETON



Japanese television tries to acquire evidence for $200,000
dollars.

October 20.- In the English-language edition of the Russian
daily "Pravda" for October 12, 2002, it was reported that a
group of Russian archaeologists are in a bind over a possible
alien skeleton.

The report states that the corpse was found by Tamara Prosfirina
in the Cheliabinsk region in 1996, and Japanese television is
now trying to acquire this evidence for $200,000.

The creature, known as "Alesha" by locals, has been the subject
of strong disputes between Russian archaeologists in the city of
Ekaterinburng, since they belive that it if the item is indeed
alien, it belongs to Russia and should not be sold to the
Japanese.However, Alesha has not been seen for a few weeks, and
an official search  by regional Russian authorities has been
undertaken.

==================

Translation (C) 2002 Scott Corrales, IHU
Special thanks to Guillermo Gimenez









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                          France: Strange UFO Photo

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 07:21:38 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 09:29:19 -0400
Subject: France: Strange UFO Photo


SOURCE: Rastreador News (Brazil)
DATE: October 24, 2002

STRANGE PHOTO REVEALS UFO DURING STORM

On October 15, while visiting the photo section of the "Ultimo
Segundo" news page, Leandro da Silva noticed a photo of a storm
on the western coast of France which showed an intriguing
detail: he noticed that the photograph contained a UFO calmly
crossing the skies during the storm: "It was a stroke of luck,"
he says. "I don't always visit this section of the page. Upon
looking at the images, I noticed this object in a photo from
southern France. That thing could be a UFO or not, but since I
was unable to find a reasonable explanation for it, I decided to
send it to Rastreador News, since  I believe that as the they
are in the UFO field, they would have a better chance of
unravelling the mystery."

Rastreador News tried to contact Agence France Press, who holds
the rights to the image, but did not obtain any reply.

Unfortunately, securing the negatives to the photo will be
necessary for an analysis.

Photo credit: AFP/IG/Leandro da Silva



======================================

Translation (C) 2002 Scott Corrales
Institute of Hispanic Ufology
Special thanks to Guillermo Gimenez










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                            Chile: UFO Over Angol

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 07:29:44 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 09:31:20 -0400
Subject: Chile: UFO Over Angol


SOURCE: Terra.Cl
DATE: October 25, 2002

9th Region of Chile
UFO PHOTOGRAPHED OVER THE CITY OF ANGOL

A number of anomalous aerial phenomena recorded over the area
since the month of September. They intensified as from October
14.

ANGOL, October 25: The city of Angol in Chile's Ninth Region has
recorded a number of UFO waves in recent years. Reports have
been collected by local researcher Raul Gajardo, who presented a
full report of the cases which transpired during the month of
September 2002. One of the most important cases occured on 9/18.
According to the report: a well-known local businessman saw a
fuchsia-colored object firing a blue beam of light. "Then
another similar object appeared. From this last one, which fired
a similar blue beam, three smaller object of the same color were
clustering around it. Then all of them "turned off", except for
the first object. He saw [this process occur] ten times and
later managed to photograph the objects with a powerful zoom
lens," states the report.

In spite of the fact that the witness took over 70 photos, the
UFO only appeared in four of them. That very same day, two
functionaries for a local radio station and two security guards
also witnessed a red object having the relative size of a ping-
pong ball.

=====================
Translation (C) 2002  S. Corrales IHU
Special thanks to J.J. Lopez






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                Re: Rusty's 'Angel Hair' Lab Report - Hebert

From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 02:38:34 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 09:35:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Rusty's 'Angel Hair' Lab Report - Hebert


 >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 09:12:38 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Rusty's 'Angel Hair' Lab Report

 >>From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 09:08:05 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Rusty's 'Angel Hair' Lab Report

 >>>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 17:41:39 -0700
 >>>Subject: Re: Rusty's 'Angel Hair' Lab Report

 >>>Amy, List, Dick, Larry, Frank, EBK

 >>>Yes, I agree. My sample was composed of the same stuff. I never
 >>>stated that the raw materials that combine to make angel hair
 >>>are other-worldly. Nor do I think angel hair is the product of
 >>>chemical trails or anything along those lines.

 >>Ed, did you send your sample of "angel hair" for analysis to
 >>Frontier Analysis, Ltd. or any other lab?

 >Amy,

 >Yes, Frontier Analysis conducted the examination of the two
 >samples I collected. When I first had the angel hair encounter
 >last November, I reported it to Updates and asked for advice on
 >who might be able to test the samples; three groups were
 >suggested by various list members and I selected Frontier
 >because I wanted my sample compared to known samples and figured
 >Frontier had the best collection on record.

 >>If so, may I see the lab report? And, if so, may I post the
 >>report in the Vanguard Archives for others to review?

 >I don't have the report in my possession. I loaned it to a
 >friend and it has not been returned.

 >You're welcome to contact Phyllis for a copy and you certainly
 >have my permission to post it where others can benefit from the
 >information.

Thank you, Ed, I will contact Phyllis.

 >>The Vanguard Archives is for direct, unaltered presentation of
 >>materials and information for research purposes. Comments,
 >>conclusions, papers, etc. will be posted at other sites as the
 >>Archives is for reference only.

 >Good idea

Whatever conclusions one reaches about Angel Hair, UFOs, aliens,
etc., I think as much information as possible should be made
available to researchers and laymen alike especially when some
form of laboratory analysis and other scientific analyses are
involved.

In my own studies, I found some of the most interesting
information was not readily available even on some of the most
famous UFO cases. Just because a case is old or does not fit
with current trends in interests does not mean it does not have
something of value to contribute to today's research.
Information that may become available tomorrow may shed a whole
new light on yesterday's UFO's, "angel hair", and other cases of
unexplained phenomena.

I feel it is important the information be made available to
anyone interested and for future generations. I would like to
see most of the information readily available on the internet
and will attempt to make my own small contribution to this
cause.

 >>I am researching the literature available on "angel hair" and
 >>will get back with you at a later date to continue our
 >>discussion.

 >Looking forward to the discussion. I certainly don't enjoy
 >butting heads with you over this. Angel hair is a solvable
 >mystery if we cooperate and carefully examine all the disparate
 >information. Do you want the Elmira info and photo?

I don't enjoy butting heads either but most of the time I learn
more from those with whom I disagree than from those with whom I
agree.

I agree with you that we need to cooperate and examine all the
disparate information. The more I review the information
available about "angel hair", the more questions I have.
Although I think there may be genuine cases of "angel hair"
falls, I have found much of the literature on the subject quite
lacking in scientific protocol. Therefore, I intend to do a more
thorough review of the information before presenting my
findings.

Yes, I would like the Elmira info and photo. I will contact you
via private E-mail. May I add the information to the Vanguard
Archives?


Amy








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                 Re: Art Bell To Announce Retirement - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 04:08:23 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 09:38:21 -0400
Subject: Re:  Art Bell To Announce Retirement - Velez

 >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 05:58:42 +0200
 >Subject: Art Bell To Announce Retirement

 >Source: Reuters/Variety TV via Yahoo News,

 >http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20021024/tv_nm/bell_2

 >Stig

 >***

 >Radio legend Art Bell to announce retirement

 >Wed Oct 23, 8:39 PM ET

 >By Sue Zeidler

Good riddance! To this day, 'Ding-Dong Bell' has not had to
answer for his part in promoting the whole "Hail Mary" (Hale-
  Bopp) fiasco that eventually culminated in the tragic deaths at
the Heaven's Gate cult compound.

Whitley Streiber recently attempted to rewrite history by
denying any culpability or responsibility on the part of Bell.
But it was Bell who (with the help of those other noodniks
Courtney Brown of the 'Far-out' Institute and Chuck Shramek,
dingbat astronomer) almost single-handedly created and
maintained an unabashed frenzied atmosphere around the subject.

Bell was riding high and enjoying the ratings until the tragic
actions of those people at Heaven's Gate introduced some
sobriety.

I for one have never forgotten his part in all that mess. Bell
has never acknowledged his own culpability. Now he gets to ride
off into the sunset without ever having to answer for his own
completely irresponsible public behavior.

Nuts to Bell. I happily say, "Sayonara". I only hope that the
heavy studio door doesn't hit him in the ass on the way out.


John Velez
Speaking strictly for myself

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http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition








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              Re: Brazilian Found Wandering In Chilean Desert -

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 04:37:51 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 09:40:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Brazilian Found Wandering In Chilean Desert -


 >From: Thiago Luiz Ticchetti <thiagolt@opendf.com.br>
 >To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 14:28:04 -0300
 >Subject: Brazilian Found Wandering In Chilean Desert

 >Correio do Povo Newspaper - Rio Grande do Sul - Brazil

 >October 23rd, 2002

 >SANTIAGO, CHILE -- The discovery, in the Atacama Desert, in
 >Northern Chile, of a hungry and dehydrated Brazilian, is
 >puzzling Chilean authorities.

 >An investigation began on Tuesday to determinate how the young
 >man, named Marivaldo Amorinho de Souza, 24 years, got there.

 >Marivaldo, who is from Bahia State in Northeast Brazil, covered
 >a big part of Brazil and other South-American territories to get
 >to the desert, where he was found by police officers.

 >Marivaldo was taken to a police station in Huara, 1,800 kilometres
 >from San Tiago, Chile's capital.

 >He could only remember his name, that he is from Itabuna - a
 >city of Bahia - and that he had been walking in the Atacama
 >Desert for a week, without food or water.

 >Marivaldo was in shock and authorities could not get any more
 >information.

 >Nobody knows how the Brazilian get there...

 >Thiago Luiz Ticchetti
 >EBE-ET
 >Brasilia/DF
 >Brasil

Hola Thiaggo,

Pertinent question if I may: What does this story have to do
with UFOs?

Didn't we just go through this very same thing with the Todd
Sees case? Nowhere in any of the published reports was any
mention made of UFOs or anything 'paranormal'. Same here with
this report. Unless I missed something, there is no mention of
UFOs in this report.

A guy was found wandering in the desert. Are we to 'assume' that
UFOs were somehow involved? Is the reason this report is
appearing in a UFO discussion List one that requires us to
manufacture a UFO connection in our own heads? I hope you don't
take my questions in the wrong way. I'm merely trying to make a
point. Nothing personal amigo.

Please, if there is any solid information indicating a UFO
component to this report, would you be so kind as to share it
with us? Otherwise, just posting such a story to a UFO List
without any details connecting it directly to the phenomenon
smacks of rumor mongering. More 'rumors' are the last thing
ufology needs. To use an old-fashioned expression; ufology
already has an 'embarrassment' of rumors.

Is there a UFO connection?


Regards,

John Velez

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                      Martian Rock 'Does Contain Life'

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 11:35:00 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 09:41:48 -0400
Subject: Martian Rock 'Does Contain Life'


Source: BBC

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/sci/tech/2354533.stm

Stig

***

Wednesday, 23 October, 2002, 17:04 GMT 18:04 UK

Martian rock 'does contain life'

By Dr David Whitehouse
BBC News Online science editor

**

The strange shapes seen in a rock from Mars that some
researchers say are fossilised bacteria really are tiny micro
organisms, say American researchers.

But while they are confident the Mars rock contains fossilised
life they cannot quite bring themselves to say it comes from the
Red Planet, it might be Earthly contamination.

Despite the uncertainty about their origin establishing that the
small structures really were living things, and not just mineral
globules, would be an advance in a field that has sharply
divided opinions.

Lawrence Taylor of the University of Tennessee told BBC News
Online that so-called "nannobacteria" found on Earth resemble
those found in the Mars rock." The next task is to find a way to
determine if they really came from Mars.


Life on Mars?


Since the dramatic announcement in 1996 by Nasa scientists that
there were several lines of evidence that suggested rock
ALH84001, picked up from Antarctic ice but originally from Mars,
contained evidence of life, scientific opinion has been divided
between those who wanted to be persuaded, and those who did not.

Since then the rock has been extensively analysed and many papers
written, but few have shifted their viewpoints.

One camp has looked at magnetic grains in the microfossils
saying that they appear identical to magnetic grains found in
some terrestrial bacteria. Another group of researchers looked
at indications of how carbon deposits in the rock were formed
looking to see if they were deposited at low enough temperatures
so they could be by-products of life.

Rival researchers have argued that the very small size of the
purported micro organisms make it unlikely that they were living
things because they are too small.

In the past few years however some researchers, principally
Robert Folk of the University of Texas, have put forward
evidence that terrestrial nannobacteria do exist and add
significantly to the Earth's biomass.

The latest study, by Robert Folk and Lawrence Taylor, casts
doubt on the lower size limit for life viewpoint. Some of the
larger bacteria found in ALH2004 are actually close in size to
the smallest terrestrial organisms.

But if the case for the fossilised micro organisms in ALH84001
is strengthened somewhat the big question remains: where did
they come from?

"We conclude that the nanobodies that are so abundant in
ALH84001 are indeed nannobacteria. However whether these bodies
originated on Mars, or are Antarctic contamination remains a
valid question," say the researchers.

**

Related to this story:

'I'm searching for life on Mars' (24 Jul 02 | UK) Life on Mars
hopes raised (05 Apr 02 | Science/Nature) Tough bugs point to
life on Mars (16 Jan 02 | Science/Nature) Life on Mars claims
disputed (21 Nov 01 | Science/ Nature)

Internet links: Nannobacteria | ALH84001

The BBC is not responsible for the content of external internet
sites.

=A9 MMII








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                         Re: CUFOS Crisis - Bourdais

From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 12:13:11 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 09:44:14 -0400
Subject: Re: CUFOS Crisis - Bourdais


 >From: Remy Lechevalier <remy.lechevalier@cp.finances.gouv.fr>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 15:52:56 +0200
 >Subject: Re: CUFOS Crisis

 >Phenomena is hardly flourishing. Nominally a quarterly, its
 >publication has become quite unpredictable. Two years ago, they
 >stopped being distributed on Parisian news stands because of
 >cost and competition for space on the stands. The latest
 >issue is not distributed at all and is available only through
 >mail and subscription. Much as I disagreed with the overall
 >position of the magazine, I think it will be a substantial loss
 >if the magazine had to cease publication.

 >The other important French UFO magazine, Lumi=E8res dans la Nuit
 >is not doing much better. Available only through subscription,
 >it must be around 1000 subscribers if I remember well (figures
 >given by Gildas Bourdais at an UFO lecture, a while ago : he
 >will correct me if I'm wrong).


Hello Remy and the List

The French review 'Lumieres dans la Nuit', in spite of its
poetic title ('Lights in the Night') and its serious approach
has a dwindling number of subscribers, now of a bit less than
1,000, as its director Joel Mesnard told me, and is not
distributed in newstands.

As I already said, French ufology is in bad shape, mainly
because it has been undermined during so many years by 'psycho-
  sociological' discourses, such as displayed in the review
'Phenomena' of Perry Petrakis, and 'Anomalies' of Pierre
Lagrange.

Ironically, they are in trouble too, but they have been sawing
the branch on which they were seated !

Worse than that, a new wave of readers and fans has appeared,
turned on new age ideas and sensational "revelations" of all
kinds. David Icke's book sells very well here, contrary to
serious ufo books, which barely find a small publisher.

One exception is the publication of several special issues of
the popular magazine VSD, which seem fairly successful. Of
course, they are supported by the good distribution of the
magazine, and abundantly illustrated.


Gildas Bourdais








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                    Re: Magonia Supplement 41 - Friedman

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 09:20:39 -0300
Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 09:47:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 41 - Friedman


 >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 41
 >Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 20:58:41 +0000

 >>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 20:26:30 +0100
 >>Subject: Magonia Supplement 41

 >>Here is the latest issue of the Magonia Supplement, edited by
 >>John Harney. A net version is available at:

 >>MAGONIA Supplement
 >>No. 41  22 October 2002

 >>EDITORIAL

 >>In this issue we return to the theme of the ETH, which this
 >>newsletter was originally started to discuss, with the aim of
 >>getting believers in the ETH to present the best evidence for it
 >>in a clear and rational manner and to list those UFO incidents
 >>which they thought should be presented as the most promising
 >>indications that the ETH might be true, and might eventually be
 >>shown to be true. It was all in vain, as most ETH enthusiasts
 >>greatly resent having their favourite UFO reports subjected to
 >>critical examination and seeing all the flaws and
 >>inconsistencies in the stories laid bare. However, we intend to
 >>persist in exposing the weaknesses of the case for ET spaceships
 >>and their occupants, in the hope that some ufologists will
 >>eventually see sense.

 ><snip>

 >What a pack of nonsense! You (and/or John Harney) don't bother
 >to read or study, or respond to, publications like The UFO
 >Evidence, Volume II, which provide overwhelming reason to take
 >the ETH seriously and that indeed go into hardcore cases in great
 >detail.

 >Until you do, Magonia continues to be an advocate of ex cathedra
 >"truth" and the debunker party line, quite divorced from any
 >rational analysis of data.


Right on Dick. Remember the 4 basic rules for debunkers as well
illustrated in Magonia:

1. What the public doesn't know, I won't tell them.

2. Don't bother me with the facts, my mind is made up.

3. If you can't attack the data, attack the people.

4. Do research by proclamation, investigation is too much
    trouble.

The naivity shown by the notion that we would have access to
radar and spy satellite info, re space and airborne uncorrelated
targets produced by the Aerospace Defense Command and NRO
satellites and collected by NSA while listening to their foreign
equivalents, is monumental.

Just note that more than 95% of the 156 UFO documents released
by the NSA are whited out. No way that is all sources and methods
data.


Stan Friedman








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                     Re: Jimmy Carter The Nobel Prize &

From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@optonline.net>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 09:56:05 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 10:24:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Jimmy Carter The Nobel Prize &


 >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 22:29:30 +0000
 >Subject: Re: Jimmy Carter The Nobel Prize & Extraterrestrials

 >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 21:10:09 EDT
 >>Subject: Re: Jimmy Carter The Nobel Prize & Extraterrestrials

 >>>From: Grant Cameron <presidentialufo@presidency.com>
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 15:08:32 -0500
 >>>Subject: Jimmy Carter The Nobel Prize & Extraterrestrials

 >>>his sighting of a strange unidentified object in Leary,
 >>>Georgia in 1969.

 >>>Carter has always been open to talking about the
 >>>1969 UFO sighting, which he described as a "very
 >>>remarkable sight," and "the darndest thing I have ever
 >>>seen." Carter has talked about it in many question and
 >>>answer sessions following speeches, or on open-line
 >>>talk show promoting the many books he has written.

 >>This famous IFO was actually the planet Venus, as
 >>determined by Robert Sheaffer many years ago and
 >>published in The Humanist, July-August 1977, p. 46.

 >>The problem was that Carter was mistaken about the
 >>date when recounting it years later. Sheaffer got to the
 >>bottom of it.

 >>Please see:

 >http://www.debunker.com/texts/carter_ufo.html

 >>Anybody who still uses this old, tired IFO without
 >>addressing Robert Sheaffer's long-published
 >>investigation just hasn't done their homework.

 >Was it now? Absolutely and with great certainty?
 >Although I recognize that it _may_ have been Venus,
 >anyone who believes Robert Sheaffer is an accurate and
 >reliable reporter of anything hasn't done his homework.
 >You cite him as an authoritative source, not to be
 >questioned.

 >Well now, at the (in)famous abduction conference at
 >M.I.T. I had just participated in a panel discussion on
 >worldwide abduction reports, and during a break Sheaffer
 >aggressively addressed me in the corridor asking, "If
 >abduction cases are real, why are they only reported in
 >North America?" We had just reviewed cases from all
 >over the world!

 >Nor was that my only "encounter" with a loud, adamant,
 >aggressive, and ill-informed Sheaffer.

 >Some day I may publish my memoirs.

Folks,

I believe the proper classification of the Carter sighting is
'unsolved' or 'unknown'. Neither side can conclusively prove
its case. Back in May '98 David Rudiak, Don Ledger and Robert
Gates had a discussion with Jerome Clark concerning the Jimmy
Carter case. Jerome took a position which agreed with
Schaeffer's assessment that Carter had seen Venus, while Rudiak
and Ledger gave some cogent reasons why they disagreed. I voiced
my opinion and thoughts as well. All this located at:

http://www.cohenufo.org/Carter/cohensum.htm

It is certainly possible for a person to make an error regarding
a date while hastily filling out a form and still be quite
accurate in remembering what he/she saw at a particular moment,
especially if that event imprinted on the mind.

Jimmy Carter's UFO report becomes a little less implausible if
we give some thought to Carter's technical background and
expertise as displayed in World Book Encyclopedia. It is that
expertise which I believe would make Carter less likely to
misidentify Venus as a UFO. He served on ships and most likely
observed Venus a number of times. As Schaeffer himself admits at
his web site; "... Venus is not as bright as the moon, nor does
it actually approach the viewer, or change size and
brightness....."

http://www.cohenufo.org/carter.html

BTW, we get a hint of the lengths Schaeffer is willing to go to
debunk a case when we note his 'expose' of Roslyn Carter.

Schaeffer wasn't able to completely disprove Jimmy Carter's UFO
report by legitimate means so what does he do? He writes a
negative article on his wife.

I'm afraid this doesn't inspire much confidence regarding
Schaeffer's research methods and scientific approach.

Did anyone notice any supporting source material provided to
prove various statements he made throughout the article? That's
because there was none.


Respectfully,

Jerry Cohen








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              Re: Brazilian Found Wandering In Chilean Desert -

From: Thiago Luiz Ticchetti <thiagolt@opengate.com.br>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 12:54:52 -0300
Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 13:19:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Brazilian Found Wandering In Chilean Desert -


 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>;
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 04:37:51 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Brazilian Found Wandering In Chilean Desert

 >>From: Thiago Luiz Ticchetti <thiagolt@opendf.com.br>;
 >>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>;
 >>Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 14:28:04 -0300
 >>Subject: Brazilian Found Wandering In Chilean Desert

 >>Correio do Povo Newspaper - Rio Grande do Sul - Brazil

 >>October 23rd, 2002

 >>SANTIAGO, CHILE -- The discovery, in the Atacama Desert, in
 >>Northern Chile, of a hungry and dehydrated Brazilian, is
 >>puzzling Chilean authorities.

 >>An investigation began on Tuesday to determinate how the young
 >>man, named Marivaldo Amorinho de Souza, 24 years, got there.

 >>Marivaldo, who is from Bahia State in Northeast Brazil, covered
 >>a big part of Brazil and other South-American territories to get
 >>to the desert, where he was found by police officers.

 >>Marivaldo was taken to a police station in Huara, 1,800 kilometres
 >>from San Tiago, Chile's capital.

 >>He could only remember his name, that he is from Itabuna - a
 >>city of Bahia - and that he had been walking in the Atacama
 >>Desert for a week, without food or water.

 >>Marivaldo was in shock and authorities could not get any more
 >>information.

 >>Nobody knows how the Brazilian get there...

 >Hola Thiaggo,

 >Pertinent question if I may: What does this story have to do
 >with UFOs?

 >Didn't we just go through this very same thing with the Todd
 >Sees case? Nowhere in any of the published reports was any
 >mention made of UFOs or anything 'paranormal'. Same here with
 >this report. Unless I missed something, there is no mention of
 >UFOs in this report.

 >A guy was found wandering in the desert. Are we to 'assume' that
 >UFOs were somehow involved? Is the reason this report is
 >appearing in a UFO discussion List one that requires us to
 >manufacture a UFO connection in our own heads? I hope you don't
 >take my questions in the wrong way. I'm merely trying to make a
 >point. Nothing personal amigo.

 >Please, if there is any solid information indicating a UFO
 >component to this report, would you be so kind as to share it
 >with us? Otherwise, just posting such a story to a UFO List
 >without any details connecting it directly to the phenomenon
 >smacks of rumor mongering. More 'rumors' are the last thing
 >ufology needs. To use an old-fashioned expression; ufology
 >already has an 'embarrassment' of rumors.

 >Is there a UFO connection?


Hola Velez,

Your questions are very pertinent.

Let me try to be clear. I did not want to 'plant' rumors here. I
think that is a very good information because is similar a case
occured here in Brazil (even that some think that that is UFO
lore)

A couple here in Brazil, named Vargas, were said to have been
abducted in Brazil and then left in Mexico. I thought that it
was very similar.

I do not have more information, because the case happened in
Chile. I think that it maybe be linked with UFOs as well,
because of similar cases.

If we could not speculate something, we never will be able to
prove it! Who can guarantee that crop circles are made by
aliens? Is it not speculated by us, the researchers? We use
testemonies, reports and trust to think it, isn't that right?

I know that the ufology does not need rumors and speculation,
but if we do not try to show what we think is important, we'll
never anywhere.

Please, do not get me wrong, mi amigo, *mas yo pienso que la
informacions es muy importante para la pesquisa ufologica (* but
I think that information is very important to the UFO research)

Regards/saludos
--


Thiago Luiz Ticchetti
EBE-ET
Brasilia/DF
Brasil







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   Oct > Oct 25

                  Space.com Delves Into Disclosure Campaign

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 17:49:57 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 13:40:33 -0400
Subject: Space.com Delves Into Disclosure Campaign


Source: SPACE.com

http://www.space.com/news/ufo_poll_021025.html

Stig

***

UFOs: Seeking the Truth Through Savvy Marketing

By Leonard David
Senior Space Writer

posted: 09:25 am ET
25 October 2002

**

Call it a conspiracy (or savvy marketing), but a new poll
released this week says a majority of Americans think the truth
about unidentified flying objects (UFOs) is out there, yet the
government is concealing it from them.

That's exactly what a new public Roper poll shows, fueling a
fact- hunting investigative group that wants to get to the
bottom of high- flying UFOs.

This week, calls for the U.S. government to be more forthcoming
on what it knows about UFOs increased following the release of
the poll results. That RoperASW study, sponsored by the SCI FI
Channel, shows that 72% of Americans believe the government is
not telling the public everything it knows about UFO activity.

The full poll is to be published next month, just in time for
the science fiction cable network to begin its big media push
for its new show, the Steven Spielberg-produced TAKEN. The show
is set to premiere in December on the SCI FI Channel.

This Roper poll data purportedly will show that most Americans
are psychologically prepared for proof of extraterrestrial life.
Furthermore, a public majority already believes in ET and that
the UFO experience is not foreign to Americans.

The poll also found that 68% of those surveyed think the
government knows more about extraterrestrial life than it is
letting on. Another factoid is that the younger you are the
stronger your belief that the government is withholding info
about UFOs and extraterrestrial (ET) life. The poll revealed a
strong distrust of the government on several issues:

Most Americans say that the government does not share enough
information with the public in general (55%). That, by-and-large
when national security is not at risk, the U.S. government
should not withhold information about UFO sightings (60%) and
potential encounters with extraterrestrial life (58%).

Released October 15, the survey statistics are based on random
telephone calls to 1,021 adults ages 18 and over. The telephone
interviews were completed over two days in August. The margin of
error for the total sample is +/- 3%.


Close encounter with Spielberg

"People are curious, intrigued by the possibility of other life
forms, and want to know more," explained SCI FI Channel's
President, Bonnie Hammer, in a press statement. Hammer is
currently developing Spielberg's 20-hour miniseries for the
channel.

TAKEN, a science fiction-based drama, weaves together the lives
of three families over four generations, picturing the roles
they play in the history of the UFO phenomenon and government
conspiracy.

Hammer and the SCI FI Channel's interest in UFOs were part of a
press event, held October 22 at the National Press Club in
Washington, D.C. The cable outfit declared its support for a new
effort to gain release of secret government records on UFOs.
Announced was the creation of the Coalition for Freedom of
Information (CFI), based in Washington, D.C.


Getting the facts

One of CFI's objectives is to eradicate the stigma in the
scientific community that discourages research into the question
of aerial phenomenon. The newly formed group has launched a new
research campaign into the UFO phenomenon, as well as to promote
more government disclosure about UFOs.

"The history of efforts to pierce the veil of secrecy around the
UFO phenomenon is fraught with frustration, but also examples of
success. We hope we bring additional pressure on several
government agencies to disclose more records," said Ed
Rothschild, CFI's Executive Director. "Additionally, we want to
emphasize the importance of getting the facts so that scientists
can examine them and help determine what in fact UFOs really
are," he told SPACE.com.

Rothschild specifically points to an event in Kecksburg,
Pennsylvania, now some 37 years ago, but firmly affixed in UFO
folklore. That event involved a glowing object tumbling into
woods, later to be retrieved by soldiers and spirited away to an
unknown destination.

However, sources familiar with the incident told SPACE.com that
there is a less UFO-ish explanation. During the Cold War, tiger
teams of specialists often raced to landing sites of reentering
Soviet satellites. Spacecraft recovered offered invaluable clues
to foreign technologies in the heat of the so-called "Space
Race". This reentry and recovery watchdog service continues
today.

Putting the Kecksburg affair aside, many UFO sightings remain
open for investigation.


Open the books

Along with CFI's Rothschild, taking part in Tuesday's National
Press Club event was John Podesta, a former White House Chief of
Staff during the Clinton Administration.

Teamed with Dan Mattoon, a veteran Republican strategist, the
ex- Clinton aide runs PodestaMattoon - a high-powered public
relations and lobbying firm in Washington, D.C.

The new CFI headquarteres shares the same offices as
PodestaMattoon.

"It's time to open the books on the question of government
investigation of UFOs. It ought be done because it's right. It
ought to be done because the American people can handle the
truth. And it ought to be done because it's the law," Podesta
notes.

Podesta said that government doesn't always tell the truth.
"That's why freedom of information is so important_so that the
American public can make their own decisions," he said.

"It is time for the government to declassify records that are
more than 25 years old and to provide scientists with data that
will assist in determining the real nature of this phenomenon,"
Podesta argues.


Political bid

The latest round of UFO disclosure pressure on the government
includes the independent candidacy of Stephen Bassett seeking a
November seat in the 8th Congressional District of the State of
Maryland.

Bassett is a long-time lobbyist and activist on a quest to
demystify the UFO phenomenon. His campaign slogan is "Disclosure
2003."

"For the past five decades the human race has been caught
between two worlds, two paradigms. While millions of people
worldwide have come to understand they are not alone in the
universe, that an extraterrestrial presence has become manifest
about the planet, the governments of the world, frozen in place
by fear and indecision, have been unable to publicly engage this
new reality. This cannot continue," Bassett states in a web site
campaign proclamation.

"It is time for the United States of America, a nation which
views itself as a leader of nations, to formally acknowledge
this extraterrestrial presence. During the campaign the premise
will be put forth that conditions under which the United States
government can end the UFO/ET truth embargo will be ideal in the
coming year - thus the name 'Disclosure2003,'" he explains.


Clogging up the channels

All the talk about UFOs, government secrecy and full disclosure
is not welcome news to everyone.

"The UFO cult that is fixated on the notion that 'secret
government documents' contain 'the truth' about otherwise
'unexplained aerial phenomena' is, on balance, no friend of
freedom of information or government accountability."

That's the view of Steven Aftergood, head of the Project on
Government Secrecy for the Federation of American Scientists in
Washington, D.C.

Never-ending requests for documentation on UFOs and similar
obsessions, Aftergood suggests, clog up the narrow channels of
public access to government information and make a mockery of
the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA).

"The nation is on the verge of war. A sniper has been on the
loose in Washington. The public needs improved access to all
kinds of government information. But records about strange
lights in the sky that may have appeared decades ago are not at
the top of the list," Aftergood told SPACE.com. "Yet the FOIA
logs of national security agencies are full of requests from
would be-Fox Mulders in search of 'the truth' about UFOs," he
said.

"Should such records be declassified? Sure. But not at the
expense of other information needs," Aftergood concludes.

**

More Stories:

Investigation Casts Light on the Mysterious Flying Black
Triangle

Would Aliens Visit?

UFOs and Classified Aircraft: Shedding New Light on Dark Secrets

UFO Bureau Shuts Down Due to Lack of Sightings

**

2002 SPACE.com, Inc. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.








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   Oct > Oct 25

                  Criticism Of New Drive For UFO Disclosure

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 17:10:52 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 13:23:34 -0400
Subject: Criticism Of New Drive For UFO Disclosure


Source: Wired News

http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,56004,00.html

Stig

***

Outing UFO Clues Good for Ratings

By Mark Baard

02:00 AM Oct. 25, 2002 PDT

**

Fox Mulder would be proud of a group of Washington insiders who
are throwing their weight behind the UFO movement.

Former Chief of Staff John Podesta and a former Capitol Hill
staffer this week called on the government to release secret
evidence from UFO crash sites.

The Coalition for Freedom of Information, directed by Washington
lobbyist Edwin Rothschild, hopes to acquire UFO documents and
debris for scientific analysis.

Rothschild said neither he nor Podesta, who joined in the
announcement, has heard any new rumors about UFOs from the Oval
Office or Capitol Hill.

"But people and pilots worldwide have seen things that shouldn't
be there," Rothschild said, "and we ought to know what these
things are."

Rothschild said he wants to encourage a sustained, scientific
study of UFO materials. But Rothschild may be more interested in
strengthening his ties with the Sci Fi Channel, which is funding
the Coalition for Freedom of Information.

Sci Fi also happens to be a client of PodestaMattoon, the
lobbying and PR firm where Rothschild works.

Sci Fi is using the CFI connection to promote its new UFO
miniseries Taken. The show, produced by Steven Spielberg, will
air in December.

And here's a twist worthy of The X-Files: PodestaMattoon is run
by John Podesta's brother, Tony, which may explain John's
participation in the launch of CFI.

John Podesta did not respond to repeated requests for an
interview.

While schilling for Sci Fi, CFI promises to use its connections
to muscle the UFO debate into the mainstream. Indeed, CFI is
girding itself for a row with the Air Force over CFI's Freedom
of Information Act request for documents from its official UFO
investigations.

"I've done this type of work before," Rothschild said, "and I've
found that some people don't listen unless you file a lawsuit
against them."

CFI is especially keen for documents about an object the Air
Force may have recovered at a crash site in Kecksburg,
Pennsylvania, in December 1965. Witnesses who saw the Kecksburg
object described it as saucer- shaped and marked with strange
writing.

"For all we know, that writing might have been Cyrillic,"
Rothschild said. "It might have been a Soviet vehicle. The point
is we just don't know."

But the public may never see the Kecksburg object, or any other
UFO, for that matter.

"They'd have an easier time getting the government to haul out
an alien cadaver than any piece of a ship," said Ryan Wood, who
runs The Majestic Documents, a UFO research site.

Wood heads up a group of real-life versions of the X-Files Lone
Gunmen who seek to authenticate UFO-related government
documents.

Wood believes the government may be hiding UFO evidence because
of its military value.

But one of Wood's associates has another more mundane
explanation for the missing data.

"With all the bureaucracy surrounding FOIA requests," UFO
researcher Nick Redfern said, "the material could just be
sitting around somewhere, in a dusty old office."

Scientists, including the skeptics, say they'd welcome full
disclosure of UFO evidence.

"It's unlikely that an interstellar spacecraft has ever struck
the earth," said Tom McDonough, Search for Extraterrestrial
Intelligence coordinator for the Planetary Society. "But let's
look at whatever evidence there is. Then we can debate about its
origins."

But Rothschild said that hard-core skeptics, especially in the
media, are killing the UFO debate.

"We're working against a big ridicule factor here," he said,
"and that isn't going to lead to any kind of outcome."

**

We are translated daily into Spanish, Portuguese, and Japanese

Copyright 2002, Lycos, Inc. All Rights Reserved.







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   Oct > Oct 25

                             John Podesta - FYI

From: John Novak <john@supremalex.org>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 09:18:32 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 13:43:31 -0400
Subject: John Podesta - FYI


I've asked some people I know about John Podesta, who is
currently gaining fans among the UFO community due to his press
conference on UFO disclosure recently. His effort is supported
by the Sci-Fi Channel who is using it to promote it's upcoming
series of UFO related programs this fall.

I want to think that both parties have the best of intentions for
humanity when it comes to dealing with data that has the
potential for altering society the way this information will. I
also know that, as a general rule, I do not place great trust in
people who come from politics, especially lawyers. These are the
very people who make an artform out of distorting truth and
dodging facts for personal gain, and it seems Mr. Podesta is no
exception to this.

Only time will tell where these people's hearts are.

The comments below come from investigative journalist, Charles
Smith. You can see his work at http://www.softwar.net

John Novak
Changing Planet Editor
http://www.supremalex.org
*********************

_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

From: "Charles Smith" <softwar@softwar.net>
To: "John Novak" <john@supremalex.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 3:25 PM
Subject: Re: Subscribe & Question


John,

I'm surprised that John Podesta did not burst into flames from
spontaneous combustion.

It was John Podesta that opposed the disclosure of documents
showing that he was working for his brother Tony while employed
at the White House. John Podesta arranged for the top execs of
U.S. computer companies to attend secret meetings in the White
House in 1995 when his brother (Tony) represented those
companies. Those closed meetings led to the decision to allow
super-computer exports to Chinese and Russian nuclear weapons
labs. The meetings were attended by an employee of Tony Podesta,
Ken Key, who led the lobby effort.

I forced John Podesta to change his FEC donation records to
reflect that he gave money to Sen. Lehy's campaign while
employed at the White House. The record originally showed that
John took money from his brother Tony while he was also employed
at the White House. You will find that this is the ONLY record
of money donations from John Podesta where he cites his employer
is the White House.

In 1997 Bill Clinton had to give John Podesta a "waiver" to work
at the White House on computer export policy because of the
conflict of interest with his brother representing IBM, Silicon
Graphics, Sun, AT&T and others. Ironically, Clinton gave Podesta
this waiver two years AFTER the secret meetings took place. I
don't know about you but a waiver given after the fact should
actually be called a "pardon".

If John Podesta wants UFO records made public then good for him.
I'd like to see the records of his work in the White House
dealing with supercomputers for Russian and Chinese nuclear
weapons development. To this day - John Podesta refuses to
answer any questions on this effort with his brother. I
submitted those questions in 1997 to John as per his request.

I'll bet that the UFO information is made public long before
John Podesta releases his records.


Yours,

Charlie Smith








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                          Secrecy News -- 10/25/02

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 12:30:06 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 13:47:42 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 10/25/02


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2002, Issue No. 106
October 25, 2002


**      CIA, STATE DEPT SPLIT ON INTEL BUDGET DISCLOSURE
**      SECURITY THROUGH DISCLOSURE AND THE SNIPER HUNT
**      BUSH ON CLASSIFICATION POLICY
**      RUMSFELD ON INTELLIGENCE
**      A WORD ON UFOS
**      BOOKS RECEIVED


CIA, STATE DEPT SPLIT ON INTEL BUDGET DISCLOSURE

Annual disclosure of the total intelligence budget would
significantly threaten U.S. national security.  Or else it
wouldn't.

Those conflicting views are held, respectively, by the Central
Intelligence Agency and the State Department, and are reflected
in their answers to questions for the record from a February 6,
2002 Senate Intelligence Committee Worldwide Threat Hearing,
published last week.

"For a number of years, individuals have advocated the public
disclosure of the aggregate intelligence budget," the Senate
Intelligence Committee noted.  "In your opinion, what would be
the specific threat to U.S. national security from publicly
disclosing the aggregate intelligence budget?"

CIA gave a traditional Cold War answer:  "Disclosure of the
aggregate intelligence budget would assist foreign governments
in evaluating the extent of US intelligence activities.
  Specifically, a sophisticated analysis combining intelligence
budget figures with media reports, Congressional debates, and
previous intelligence budgets could enable hostile intelligence
services to: identify intelligence areas, or even specific
classified programs, receiving larger or smaller appropriations;
determine present US intelligence priorities and predict future
trends; discover the location, nature, and extent of individual
intelligence appropriations embedded in the federal budget; and
develop more effective countermeasures against US programs,"
according to the April 8, 2002 CIA response transmitted by CIA
director of congressional affairs Stanley M. Moskowitz.

"Of particular concern this year are the increases to the
aggregate intelligence budget as a result of the 9/11 terrorist
attacks," the CIA added.  "Comparing this year's budget figures
with previous years would help foreign governments and other
hostile elements determine more precisely how much additional
funding the US devoting to counter-terrorism initiatives."

That's nonsense, the State Department said in effect.

"Hostile intelligence services already know a great deal more
about US intelligence community budgets, resources and
capabilities than would be revealed by public confirmation of an
aggregate number that is reported with varying accuracy in media
accounts," according to Carl W. Ford, Jr., director of State's
Office of Intelligence and Research.

"A decision on this matter is a policy call," Mr. Ford
concluded.

In fact, however, it ceased to be merely "a policy call" and
became a legal issue as soon as budget disclosure was sought
under the Freedom of Information Act, which mandates disclosure
unless the requested information could reasonably be expected to
cause damage to national security.

Mr. Ford's new statement constitutes useful expert testimony
that budget disclosure would cause no such damage.


SECURITY THROUGH DISCLOSURE AND THE SNIPER HUNT

The role of information sharing and public disclosure in the
successful apprehension of the Washington-area sniper is
suggestive and instructive, particularly in contrast to the
rigid secrecy and compartmentation that characterized pre-9/11
information policy on terrorism.

Not only did public access to official information enable an
alert trucker to identify the fugitives' vehicle, but it was
apparently a "leak" that made the key difference.

"In the end, it was television reports of information that was
not released by the police -- the type of car and license plate
of the sniper suspects -- that helped crack the case."

See "The Leak That Sank the Suspects" by Howard Kurtz in the
October 25 Washington Post here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A13610-2002Oct24.html

"Security by disclosure is the future of open societies," said
Tom Blanton, director of the National Security Archive, speaking
at a Fund for Constitutional Government board meeting yesterday.

Mr. Blanton described a pattern of events in which access to
relevant information had empowered citizens to act in the
interests of security, and he noted a growing schism within the
national security bureaucracy between those officials who
recognize this reality and those who reject it.

(Among the former can be counted Bill Leonard of the Information
Security Oversight Office, who stated recently that "leveraging
the power of information... can often be achieved only by
widening its dissemination.")

A related observation was made last week by Eleanor Hill, staff
director of the congressional joint inquiry into September 11:

"The record suggests that, prior to September 11th, the U.S.
intelligence and law enforcement communities were fighting a war
against terrorism largely without the benefit of what some would
call their most potent weapon in that effort: an alert and
committed American public. One need look no further for proof of
the latter point than the heroics of the passengers on Flight 93
or the quick action of the flight attendant who identified shoe
bomber Richard Reid. While senior levels of the Intelligence
Community as well as senior policymakers were made aware of the
danger posed by Bin Ladin, there is little indication of any
sustained national effort to mobilize public awareness of the
gravity and immediacy of the threat prior to September 11th,"
Ms. Hill said.

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2002_hr/101702hill.html

The point is not to "deputize" the public or to render it
subservient to the national security bureaucracy, as some
thought the Justice Department TIPS Program might do.  To the
contrary, the goal is to ensure that the national security
agencies transcend their bureaucratic biases and fulfill their
function of serving the public.


BUSH ON CLASSIFICATION POLICY

President Bush declared a characteristically expansive view of
executive authority over classification policy this week, as he
dismissed a perceived congressional constraint on the
establishment of highly classified special access programs:

"The U.S. Supreme Court has stated that the President's
authority to classify and control access to information bearing
on national security flows from the Constitution and does not
depend upon a legislative grant of authority," the President
said in his October 23 statement upon the signing of the
gargantuan fiscal year 2003 defense appropriations bill.  See:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2002/10/wh102302.html

It is true that the President's classification authority derives
from his constitutional status as commander-in-chief, but it is
arguably not the whole truth, according to the 1997 Report of
the Commission on Protecting and Reducing Government Secrecy:

"The Necessary and Proper Clause in Article I, section 8, of the
Constitution, which grants the Congress the authority to 'make
Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval
forces,' provides a strong basis for Congressional action in
this area," the Commission found.

"As an area in which the President and the Congress 'may have
concurrent authority, or in which its distribution is
uncertain,' the security classification system may fall within
the 'zone of twilight' to which Justice Robert H. Jackson
referred in 1952 in his famous concurring opinion in Youngstown
Sheet and Tube v. Sawyer (the 'steel seizure' case)."

See Chapter One of the Commission Report (near the end) here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/library/moynihan/chap1.html


RUMSFELD ON INTELLIGENCE

The Defense Department does not covet the intelligence turf
occupied by the CIA, said Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld
yesterday, notwithstanding reports of a new Pentagon
intelligence team focusing on Iraq.

"George Tenet and I couldn't have a closer relationship,"
Rumsfeld said.  See:

http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2002/10/dod102502.html


A WORD ON UFOS

The item entitled "UFO Cult Resurfaces" in the previous edition
of Secrecy News included regrettable errors of commission and
omission, such as these:

Proponents of UFO-related declassification are not literally a
"cult," and it was gratuitously insulting to use that term;
  there are at least some historically or otherwise significant
documents that remain classified (e.g. records on Project
Moondust) that could be considered UFO-related;  there is
nothing intrinsically disreputable in the investigation of
peripheral phenomena;  and under the Freedom of Information Act,
anyone is free to ask for anything, as they should be.

But the fact remains that the interests of those focused on UFOs
are not the same as those concerned with the larger problem of
public access to government information.  Though UFO disclosure
advocates have acquired the internet domain name
"freedomofinfo.org," it does not accurately represent their
narrow goals.  (For a more faithful match between domain name
and content, see www.freedominfo.org, the online network of
freedom of information advocates.)

The latest UFO declassification campaign is again reported in
'UFOs: Seeking the Truth Through Savvy Marketing', by Leonard
David in Space.com, October 25:

http://space.com/news/ufo_poll_021025.html

Since that story repeats the unfortunate "UFO cult" remark, let
this serve as an apology for that as well.


BOOKS RECEIVED

"Nuclear Reactions: The Politics of Opening a Radioactive Waste
Disposal Site" by Chuck McCutcheon (Univ of New Mexico Press,
2002) describes the political, environmental and technical
controversies surrounding the Waste Isolation Pilot Plant
(WIPP), the nation's premier nuclear waste dump.  See:

http://www.nuclear-reactions.com/

"Unmatched Power, Unmet Principles: The Human Rights Dimensions
of US Training of Foreign Military and Police Forces," by Lora
Lumpe and others at Amnesty International (2002).  Among other
things, the authors call for "increased transparency and
accountability of the training provided to foreign militaries."
  See:

http://store.yahoo.com/aipubs/newreports.html


_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood@fas.org
voice:  (202) 454-4691







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                             Re: APRO? - Speiser

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 09:46:04 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 13:48:58 -0400
Subject: Re: APRO? - Speiser


 >From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 22:23:53 -0700
 >Subject: APRO?

 >Can someone tell me what happened to Aerial Phenomena Research
 >Organization - APRO ? I can't find them anywhere. If someone can
 >point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it.


Defunct upon the death of Coral Lorenzen. Whereabouts of files
unknown.

==JJS==








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                             Greer Vs. Spielberg

From: Grant Cameron <presidentialufo@presidency.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 11:42:10 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 13:50:25 -0400
Subject: Greer Vs. Spielberg


DDT

(Decoy, Distract and Trash)

by

Steven M. Greer M.D.
Director, The Disclosure Project

Copyright 2002



A former high official at the NSA (National Security Agency)
told me about a protocol informally dubbed DDT - that old
poisonous chemical long-banned in much of the world. In this
application, it stands for Decoy, Distract and Trash - which is
what sophisticated intelligence operatives use to set up some
person or group, take them off the trail of something real and
important, and trash the person or the subject.

This pretty much sums up the lion's share of all things
UFOlogical, with the latest example being the much-hyped Sci-Fi
channel roll-out of Spielberg's mini-series, 'Taken'.

Late last spring or early summer, I was contacted by the PR firm
responsible for the ramp-up to 'Taken' and was informed that
they wanted to link it to Disclosure. I was told that those
rolling out 'Taken' are "joined at the hip with the main stream
media" and that they were going to spend a very large sum of
money moving the UFO subject front-stage and center to empower
Disclosure as sort of a sophisticated 'P and A' (entertainment
industry jargon for Prints and Advertising that promotes a film
or product).

DDT. By linking Disclosure and ensnaring Disclosure witnesses
and evidence in a commercial undertaking like 'Taken' (on the
Sci-Fi channel nonetheless) the ultimate DDT program can be
achieved. It is not just the hijacking and trashing of serious
witnesses and evidence into the silly season of 'Honey, I just
had sex with aliens' routine. It is the association of important
evidence, scientists and witnesses with a xenophobic titled
science fiction product like 'Taken' and the entire abduction
industry that can empower fear in the minds of the masses
regarding all things extraterrestrial.

You will recall that no less a figure than Wernher Von Braun
warned to his personal spokesperson Dr. Carol Rosin in 1974 that
after the cold war, those operating behind the scenes would roll
out global terrorism and then, finally, a hoaxed alien threat
from outer space. Dr. Rosin gave this testimony before 9/11, by
the way.

Why? Well, a xenophobic and hysterical take on visitors from
space (so well represented by military hoaxed abductions made to
look 'alien') would have something for everyone who enjoy secret
power and control:

For the military-industrial-laboratory-intelligence-corporate
complex, there would be trillions of dollars in lucrative
spending for Star Wars - now with a REAL enemy to fight! As they
said in the movie Independence Day, "Lets kick alien butt..."

For schemers wishing to unite the world in militarism and
control through fear (as opposed to our common humanity and
peace...) what better way to attain this goal than to roll out
serious UFO evidence and link it to a body of hoaxed faux-alien
encounters contained within the abduction sub-culture? People
are easily herded and controlled through fear, and can there be
anything more scary than evil 'aliens' floating poor, innocent
humans onto UFOs to torture and sexually abuse them? Right.

For misguided religious fanatics and secret religious cults, who
pine for the long-awaited end-of-the-world, Armageddon scenario,
what better fulfillment of their misinterpreted prophecy than a
Final Great Battle in space?


Well, there is just something for everyone, if you can get
people to buy it. But how?

All good disinformation has some real, true information
contained within it. The mixing of truth with lies makes the
lies believable. So by hoaxing a scary alien abduction scenario
with serious data, evidence, documents and witnesses, the lie
goes down so much more smoothly...

Those inside the multi-million dollar abduction industry have
for years told me of suppressed testimony from abductees who
recall human military operatives running the show - essentially
controlling the event. Dr. Helmut Lammer and others have
documented this hideous abuse of civilians by rogue covert
operations. And most importantly, we have interviewed military
and corporate insiders who have described in excruciating detail
how they have hoaxed these 'alien abductions' - and why.

The truth is hidden in plain sight, but it is wrapped in so much
deception that it is seldom seen.

One such military operative explained to me how his team had
abducted key military people at one point so that they would
"learn to hate the aliens" and get on board the covert Star Wars
juggernaut.

When you have billions of black-budget dollars at your disposal,
reverse-engineered Alien Reproduction Vehicles (see the
testimony of Mark McCandlish in the book 'Disclosure' available
at http://www.DiscosureProject.org/shop.htm) biological
creatures made on Earth that look 'alien' and sophisticated
mind-altering psychotronic weapon systems, hoaxing an 'alien
abduction' is like taking candy from a baby.

And you know, the truth is so much more bizarre than fiction
(even Sci-Fi channel fiction) that who will believe it?

Well, we tried. I explained all this to Mr. Spielberg's
representatives at the Sci-Fi channel and PR firm, and that I
would say as much if included in any of their programs. An
invitation has not been forthcoming. What a surprise!

By using Mr. Podesta, President Clinton's Chief of Staff, and
other notables (including, alas, some Disclosure Project
witnesses) this DDT operation is attempting to jump start Von
Braun's long-ago predicted hoaxed alien threat. For what could
be more terrifying than linking real ET and UFO evidence and
serious military and government testimony, with a xenophobic-
titled science fiction product like 'Taken', along with all the
other virulent and fearsome hoaxed experiences purveyed by the
abduction industry? A great DDT it is.

I do not know if Mr. Spielberg, Mr. Podesta, the Sci-Fi
executives, George Washington University, PBS' Ray Suarez, or
others know of any of this. In most cases, most players in a DDT
disinformation scheme are unwitting victims themselves. Let's
hope they are.

But with power comes responsibility. And Mr. Spielberg et al
have money and power and need to do their due diligence lest
they be used by a DDT scheme created to ramp up Star Wars and
Armageddon.

Especially Mr. Spielberg. For I have long admired his dedication
to documenting the history of the Holocaust by recording the
testimony of those who survived it. I worry now that he is,
perhaps unwittingly, being used to unleash the worst holocaust
the Earth has ever seen.

Steven M. Greer MD
Director, The Disclosure Project
October 24, 2002




Perhaps there is a hopeful possibility here in the conquest of
outer space. Interplanetary activity may well give us planetary
peace. Once we discover Martian spaceships hovering over Earth's
air-space, we will all come together. "How dare they threaten us
like this!" we shall shout, as one, at a really United Nations!

--Former Canadian Prime Minister Lester Pearson in a speech
   receiving his Nobel Prize for Peace in 1957.


--
__________________________________________________________
Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com
http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup








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   Oct > Oct 25

                             Re: APRO? - Randle

From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 13:54:53 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 14:07:10 -0400
Subject: Re: APRO? - Randle


 >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 09:46:04 -0700
 >Subject: Re: APRO?

 >>From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 22:23:53 -0700
 >>Subject: APRO?

 >>Can someone tell me what happened to Aerial Phenomena Research
 >>Organization - APRO ? I can't find them anywhere. If someone can
 >>point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it.

 >Defunct upon the death of Coral Lorenzen. Whereabouts of files
 >unknown.

 >==JJS==



Good Afternoon, All -

Actually the whereabouts of the files are known, it's just that
no one can come up with the $30,000.00 asking price.


KRandle








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                      Re: Greer Vs. Spielberg - Randle

From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 14:00:06 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 14:09:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Greer Vs. Spielberg - Randle


 >From: Grant Cameron <presidentialufo@presidency.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 11:42:10 -0500
 >Subject: Greer Vs. Spielberg


 >DDT

 >(Decoy, Distract and Trash)

 >by

 >Steven M. Greer M.D.
 >Director, The Disclosure Project

<snip>

 >Copyright 2002

 >All good disinformation has some real, true information
 >contained within it. The mixing of truth with lies makes the
 >lies believable. So by hoaxing a scary alien abduction scenario
 >with serious data, evidence, documents and witnesses, the lie
 >goes down so much more smoothly...


Good Afternoon, All -

Well, Greer ought to know given some of the names he has on his
lists of "witnesses". Even when the evidence is presented to
him, he ignores it, crying that they can't check out everyone...
which, of course, is exactly what they should be doing...

KRandle







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                             Re: APRO? - Speiser

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 11:13:09 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 07:55:46 -0400
Subject: Re: APRO? - Speiser


 >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 13:54:53 EDT
 >Subject: Re: APRO?

 >>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 09:46:04 -0700
 >>Subject: Re: APRO?

 >>>From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 22:23:53 -0700
 >>>Subject: APRO?

 >>>Can someone tell me what happened to Aerial Phenomena Research
 >>>Organization - APRO ? I can't find them anywhere. If someone can
 >>>point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it.

 >>Defunct upon the death of Coral Lorenzen. Whereabouts of files
 >>unknown.

 >Good Afternoon, All -

 >Actually the whereabouts of the files are known, it's just that
 >no one can come up with the $30,000.00 asking price.


Are they still being held hostage by Brian Myers and Tina
Choate? Because if so, I know some people have tried to verify
their actual posession of the files, to no avail.  This doesn't
mean they DON'T have them, just that I'm not sure it's been
confirmed.

==JJS==








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                              Re: APRO? - Vike

From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 11:13:33 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 07:58:04 -0400
Subject: Re: APRO? - Vike


Hi Jim

Thank you, I thought a gal by the name of Jan, and her husband
were running it. Or at least last year. I haven't heard anything
at all anymore and was wondered.

As for the files, wasn't it something like 7 filing cabinets
filled with cases, etc.? Well, from what I got was some greedy
fellow approached the Lorenzen family to request the files, he
got them from what I heard. But he was to share them with the
UFO community.

I heard this fellow has them placed in his basement and are for
sale, at a very good price. If this is all true, then so much
for sharing the information with the UFO community.

I guess for some, the buck is more important.

This is what I heard, if true or not, who knows.

Take care

Brian







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                           The Stan Romanek Case?

From: Chris Burns <Thurstonoreggae@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 14:24:34 EDT
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 08:00:31 -0400
Subject: The Stan Romanek Case?


Hello all,

As the Stan Romanek case is getting more attention now, I am
wondering if anybody on the List has either looked into it or
knows enough about it to have an opinion on it.

I was very curious after seeing the night-time video, which one
can find a link for when doing a search for "Stan Romanek UFO"
on Google, as it was similar to what I have seen in Pine Bush,
NY.

However, I must admit my eyebrow is raised with what I interpret
as a willingness to become a "UFO personality" in his Art Bell
appearances and such.

Maybe I am wrong, as someone like Dorothy Izatt has embraced the
media and seems to be honest in her claims, but I thought I'd
see what others think.

Thanks all,

Chris Burns







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              Re: Brazilian Found Wandering In Chilean Desert -

From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm@arrakis.es>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 20:41:28 +0200
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 08:03:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Brazilian Found Wandering In Chilean Desert -


 >From: Thiago Luiz Ticchetti <thiagolt@opengate.com.br>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 12:54:52 -0300
 >Subject: Re: Brazilian Found Wandering In Chilean Desert

 >A couple here in Brazil, named Vargas, were said to have been
 >abducted in Brazil and then left in Mexico. I thought that it
 >was very similar.

 >I know that the ufology does not need rumors and speculation,
 >but if we do not try to show what we think is important, we'll
 >never anywhere.


Rumors strike again!

Thiago. The teleportations from Brazil to Mexico are
_just_ urban legends.

Please refer to my article 'Teleportations: A Review Of The
Phenomenon In Ufology' - The Anomalist #10 (2002).

If you have any first-hand testimony of them, please let us
know.


Sincerely,

Luis R. Gonzalez Manso








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                   Were Lights UFOs Or Just A Laser Show?

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 20:56:54 +0200
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 08:05:02 -0400
Subject: Were Lights UFOs Or Just A Laser Show?


Source: The Gloucestershire Echo

http://www.thisisgloucestershire.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=84261&command=disp
layContent&sourceNode=84260&contentPK=2897810

Stig

***

WERE LIGHTS UFOS OR JUST A LASER SHOW?

10:30 - 25 October 2002

**

Were there aliens hovering over Gloucestershire last night?

The two green shapes, which appeared to "chase each other", were
seen over Winchcombe at 8.30pm yesterday. Those watching were
mystified and suspect they may have been UFOs.

Jenny O'Dowd, of Binyon Road, said: "There were two green balls
in the sky. They were chasing each other. It was most peculiar.
They lasted for about half an hour.

"It was extraordinary. I've never seen anything like it.

"We don't know what they were. We have no idea."

Her daughter Gemma Talbot, 29, who lives in nearby Enfield
Villas, also saw the lights.

She said: "There were two round, light green balls in the sky.

"They were going round in circles chasing each other, changing
shapes and sizes.

"I've never seen anything like it before."

Gloucestershire police did not receive any reports of UFO
sightings in the county last night.

Town councillor Pat Smith, of Stancombe View, said his neighbour
had a similar experience.

Did you see any UFOs? If so, please call the Echo newsdesk on
01242 271821.

**

Copyright








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                      Re: Greer Vs. Spielberg - Tonnies

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 12:48:12 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 08:08:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Greer Vs. Spielberg - Tonnies


 >From: Grant Cameron <presidentialufo@presidency.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 11:42:10 -0500
 >Subject: Greer Vs. Spielberg

 >DDT

 >(Decoy, Distract and Trash)

 >by

 >Steven M. Greer M.D.
 >Director, The Disclosure Project

 >Copyright 2002

 >A former high official at the NSA (National Security Agency)
 >told me about a protocol informally dubbed DDT - that old
 >poisonous chemical long-banned in much of the world. In this
 >application, it stands for Decoy, Distract and Trash - which is
 >what sophisticated intelligence operatives use to set up some
 >person or group, take them off the trail of something real and
 >important, and trash the person or the subject.

Here we go. Another of Greer's patented tirades, in which he
assumes that he somehow speaks on behalf of all UFO truth-
seekers. We get the typical dose of anonymous sources, grand-
  standing, and liberal speculation handed over as truth.

It's simply _uncanny_ how Greer knows the truth about alien
vistation! We might as well disband this List. As Greer's essays
continually remind us: there is no mystery! The "aliens" are
here, they're friendly, and they have antigravity - er, "ARVs".
End of discussion.


I sleep easier at night knowing that Dr. Greer, MD is on top of
these pressing concerns. I hope he gets the ego trip he craves
by pestering Spielberg's staff. And I hopen 'Taken' is a
success.


=====
Mac Tonnies (macbot@yahoo.com)

Transcelestial Ontology and Postmillennial Studies
http://mactonnies.com







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                     Re: Magonia Supplement 41 - Harney

From: John Harney <magonia@harneyj.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 21:05:22 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 08:10:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 41 - Harney


 >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 13:32:48 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 41

 >>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 20:26:30 +0100
 >>Subject: Magonia Supplement 41

 >>Here is the latest issue of the Magonia Supplement, edited by
 >>John Harney. A net version is available at:

 >>www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/00/ms41.htm

 >>----------------------------------------------------------------

 >>MAGONIA Supplement
 >>No. 41 22 October 2002

 >>5. "Isolation of the UFO Phenomenon in Space and Time: The
 >>Cheshire Cat Effect". UFOs appear and disappear, staying visible
 >>for no more than brief periods of time; their being observed at
 >>Point A does not mean that they will be seen at Point B even if
 >>last spotted heading in that direction.

 >>It is not easy to interpret this. Presumably Hynek was referring
 >>to what Jenny Randles has called the Oz Factor where the UFO is
 >>seen only by a single witness or a small group of witnesses, and
 >>other people in the vicinity at the same time notice nothing
 >>unusual. To most rational ufologists such reports suggest a
 >>psychological explanation should be sought.


 >I don't think this is a completely accurate representation of
 >the OZ factor, or maybe I'm the one who doesn't understand it,
 >but I've been given to believe that it refers to a "feeling of
 >high strangeness" reported by many witnesses, especially in
 >Close Encounters.

 >It is a feeling of isolation in space and time, that the
 >experience is being lifted out of the tapestry of our daily
 >reality and "highlighted" in such a way that time seems to stand
 >still and space consists only of the object, the witness, and
 >the intervening locus.

 >My wife described this feeling to me after her close-encounter -
 >without ever having heard of the Oz factor. It may be a normal
 >occurrence that accompanies any strange, out-of-the-ordinary or
 >traumatic event, but it's iniquitousness in UFO encounters is
 >especially noteworthy; further, some of these witnesses have
 >also had more mundane traumas such as traffic accidents, yet
 >seem to speak of the feeling during a UFO encounter as
 >"something completely different."


I agree. My comments were too brief to give an accurate or
meaningful description of what has been called The Oz Factor.

The article is really about the ETH, and the point is that the
Oz Factor makes no difference to it one way or another. In other
words, people would have these strange experiences whether we
are being visited by ETs or not, as there is no good reason to
suppose that they are caused by the activities of ETs.


John Harney








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                     Re: Magonia Supplement 41 - Harney

From: John Harney <magonia@harneyj.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 21:23:19 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 08:13:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 41 - Harney


 >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 41
 >Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 20:58:41 +0000

 >>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 20:26:30 +0100
 >>Subject: Magonia Supplement 41

 >>Here is the latest issue of the Magonia Supplement, edited by
 >>John Harney. A net version is available at:

 >>MAGONIA Supplement
 >>No. 41   22 October 2002

 >>EDITORIAL

 >>In this issue we return to the theme of the ETH, which this
 >>newsletter was originally started to discuss, with the aim of
 >>getting believers in the ETH to present the best evidence for it
 >>in a clear and rational manner and to list those UFO incidents
 >>which they thought should be presented as the most promising
 >>indications that the ETH might be true, and might eventually be
 >>shown to be true. It was all in vain, as most ETH enthusiasts
 >>greatly resent having their favourite UFO reports subjected to
 >>critical examination and seeing all the flaws and
 >>inconsistencies in the stories laid bare. However, we intend to
 >>persist in exposing the weaknesses of the case for ET spaceships
 >>and their occupants, in the hope that some ufologists will
 >>eventually see sense.

 ><snip>

 >What a pack of nonsense! You (and/or John Harney) don't bother
 >to read or study, or respond to, publications like The UFO
 >Evidence, Volume II, which provide overwhelming reason to take
 >the ETH seriously and that indeed go into hardcore cases in great
 >detail.

 >Until you do, Magonia continues to be an advocate of ex cathedra
 >"truth" and the debunker party line, quite divorced from any
 >rational analysis of data.

Dick

The point is that the analysis of UFO data, rational or
otherwise, has failed to provide us with any reason - apart from
wishful thinking - to believe that any of these reports are true
accounts of visits by ET spacecraft. Some of them are certainly
puzzling and difficult to explain, but that does not justify the
assumption that they must be ETs.

Also, if you actually read my article you will see that I am not
being dogmatic. I point out that all objections to the ETH are
irrelevant or invalid except one - the lack of convincing
evidence to support it. If and when that evidence becomes
available then I'll just have to accept that it must be true.


John Harney








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                         UFO Video At The Why? Files

From: Geoff Richardson <geoff@fastdog.karoo.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 17:45:59 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 08:15:44 -0400
Subject: UFO Video At The Why? Files


The WHY? FILES are proud to host Joe McGonagle's (UFOlogyinuk)
UFO video (3 files)



Regards

Geoff Richardson
The WHY? FILES

http://www.thewhyfiles.co.uk








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              Re: Brazilian Found Wandering In Chilean Desert -

From: Dr. Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <ufomiami@prodigy.net>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 18:02:18 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 08:33:36 -0400
Subject: Re: Brazilian Found Wandering In Chilean Desert -


 >From: Thiago Luiz Ticchetti <thiagolt@opengate.com.br>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 12:54:52 -0300
 >Subject: Re: Brazilian Found Wandering In Chilean Desert

 >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>;
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 04:37:51 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: Brazilian Found Wandering In Chilean Desert

 >>>From: Thiago Luiz Ticchetti <thiagolt@opendf.com.br>;
 >>>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>;
 >>>Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 14:28:04 -0300
 >>>Subject: Brazilian Found Wandering In Chilean Desert

<snip>

I just checked this case with our associate Jaime Ferrer in
Calama - the Atacama Desert, Chile, and he informs us that it is
not unusual for a tourist to get lost in the desert.


Regards,

Dr. Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo







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               Re: Criticism Of New Drive For UFO Disclosure -

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 16:38:12 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 08:36:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Criticism Of New Drive For UFO Disclosure -


 >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 17:10:52 +0200
 >Subject: Criticism Of New Drive For UFO Disclosure

<snip>

 >CFI is especially keen for documents about an object the Air
 >Force may have recovered at a crash site in Kecksburg,
 >Pennsylvania, in December 1965. Witnesses who saw the Kecksburg
 >object described it as saucer- shaped and marked with strange
 >writing.

 >"For all we know, that writing might have been Cyrillic,"
 >Rothschild said. "It might have been a Soviet vehicle. The point
 >is we just don't know."

I thought the Kecksberg case might have been solved several
years ago. Witnesses described the object as _acorn_-shaped --
  not saucer-shaped. This neatly matches a module of a Russian
spacecraft that apparently re-entered the atmosphere at the time
of the alleged UFO crash. (Please correct me if I'm wrong on
this.)

Cyrillic or not, this is a case that needs to be unveiled to the
public.

=====
Mac Tonnies (macbot@yahoo.com)

Transcelestial Ontology and Postmillennial Studies
http://mactonnies.com







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                             Re: APRO? - Aldrich

From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 20:12:9 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 08:43:46 -0400
Subject: Re: APRO? - Aldrich


 >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 13:54:53 EDT
 >Subject: Re: APRO?

 >>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 09:46:04 -0700
 >>Subject: Re: APRO?

 >>>From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 22:23:53 -0700
 >>>Subject: APRO?

 >>>Can someone tell me what happened to Aerial Phenomena Research
 >>>Organization - APRO ? I can't find them anywhere. If someone can
 >>>point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it.

 >>Defunct upon the death of Coral Lorenzen. Whereabouts of files
 >>unknown.

 >Actually the whereabouts of the files are known, it's just that
 >no one can come up with the $30,000.00 asking price.


Greetings List

A significant portion of the APRO files were placed on microfilm.
Three microfilms of the sighting files are known to exist. Brad
Sparks made the first microfilm with UFO incidents from pre-1947
to December 1956 available to Project 1947. The microfilm has
been copied and placed with several organizations and libraries
so even if the main microfilm were lost, the material would
still be available to researchers.

Copies have been shipped to CUFOS, FUFOR, and Ohio State
University. Also, several individuals in this country and
overseas hold copies of the microfilm. Prof. Michael Swords
wrote an article for IUR on some of the incidents contained on
the APRO microfilm.

We are actively seeking copies of the other two microfilms.
Unfortunately, the main APRO files are unavailable to the public
at this time.

Dr. Hynek, who was familiar with the contents of various
organization's files, said that while numerous well known cases
existed in the files of Project Blue Book, NICAP, and APRO, the
majority of the files did not overlap.

I have extensively examined the CUFOS files for pre-1947 to Dec
1956 and beyond. CUFOS files contain material from Dr. Hynek
files, NICAP files, Civilian Saucer Investigations of Los
Angeles files and Civilian Saucer Intelligence Files of New York
and material donated by several individuals and other lesser
known organizations. The observations by Dr. Hynek certainly
hold true for the CUFOS and APRO microfilm files, they mostly
contain unique material not in other files.

John Musgrave conducted extensive research in most major UFO
organization's files for Canadian UFO sightings. He copied all
such material in CUFOS, MUFON, APRO, and several other
organization's and individual files. John graciously allowed
Project 1947 to make copies of this compilation and again, the
resultant material has been placed in the hands of several
individuals and organizations. A significant amount of APRO
material was among the files copied.

We have been able to also obtain certain other APRO case files
from various individuals who held copies, Ted Bloecher, Dr.
Willy Smith and others. A small portion of Dr. Fontes' files
have also were given to Loren Gross and the Sign Historical
Group. Again, copies have been made and distributed to various
locations. Dr. Fontes was a leading investigator for APRO in
Brazil.



Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
http://www.project1947.com/
P. O. Box 391
Canterbury, CT 06331
(860) 546-9135








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                       Re: Greer Vs. Spielberg - Myers

From: Royce J. Myers III - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 16:41:17 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 08:47:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Greer Vs. Spielberg - Myers


 >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
 >Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 14:00:06 EDT
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Subject: Re: Greer Vs. Spielberg

 >>From: Grant Cameron <presidentialufo@presidency.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 11:42:10 -0500
 >>Subject: Greer Vs. Spielberg

 >>DDT

 >>(Decoy, Distract and Trash)

 >>by

 >>Steven M. Greer M.D.
 >>Director, The Disclosure Project

 ><snip>

 >>Copyright 2002

 >>All good disinformation has some real, true information
 >>contained within it. The mixing of truth with lies makes the
 >>lies believable. So by hoaxing a scary alien abduction scenario
 >>with serious data, evidence, documents and witnesses, the lie
 >>goes down so much more smoothly...

 >Well, Greer ought to know given some of the names he has on his
 >lists of "witnesses". Even when the evidence is presented to
 >him, he ignores it, crying that they can't check out everyone...
 >which, of course, is exactly what they should be doing...


Sloppy is the word for Greer not investigating any of his so-
  called witnesses.  We know if Greer did, and he actually
started to screen out the phonies, his list of witnesses would
be much shorter. For Greer to claim it impossible and costly to
investigate these people is absolute nonsense. Greer railing
against thorough investigation goes to further prove that his
effort is not as sound as he claims and he is probably well
aware of it.

As for "Decoy, Distract and Trash" tactics applied to UFOs,
Greer has no further to look than the mirror.  Hey Doc, we
haven't forgotten about your outrageous story of the military
attacking the ET underground base in Colorado.

Greer wrote:

 >Well, there is just something for everyone, if you can get
 >people to buy it. But how?

How about advertising friendly space aliens and charging people
to learn how to vector 'em all in?

How about plagiarizing other people's UFO material and selling
it as your own?

Or how about trying to charge members of MUFON in Washington
state $2500.00 per person to come on out and vector in UFOs with
their flashlights with Greer and crew setting the time and
location?

Oh, wait - Greer's already done that.

If you want to talk about a credibility problem, or clouding the
issue with nonsense, the sad news is that Greer is a major part
of it.


Regards,

Royce J. Myers III

UFOWATCHDOG.COM
"Don't Trip On Your Open Mind...or your powerful UFO vectoring
flashlights...








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                           Bush Lawyer Talks FOIA

From: Grant Cameron <presidentialufo@presidency.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 20:56:45 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 08:50:00 -0400
Subject: Bush Lawyer Talks FOIA


As the new Coalition for Freedom of Information (CFI)prepares to
launch an effort to obtain UFO documents using the Freedom of
Information Act, President Bush's lawyer was standing up in
front of a group of editors talking about the Bush
administration's future treatment of the Act. The news was not
comforting.

"The Bush administration will follow the law regarding Freedom
of Information Act (FOIA) requests and the release of other
documents," said White House Counsel Alberto Gonzales, "but
added that it will gladly withhold information if deemed
necessary."

http://www.mediainfo.com/editorandpublisher/headlines/article_display.jsp?vnu_co
ntent_id=1748766


OCTOBER 24, 2002
Lawyer Defends White House Information Freeze
Editors Worry About Govt. Secrecy

By Joe Strupp

BALTIMORE -- White House Counsel Alberto Gonzales seemed to know
instinctively that his comments to the Associated Press Managing
Editors on Thursday would illicit groans. His first words to the
lunchtime crowd of more than 300: "There is a danger for the
president's lawyer to be addressing a roomful of editors."

After an initial chuckle from the group, gathered here for its
annual conference, the audience turned serious, even concerned,
as Gonzales spoke. He said the Bush administration will follow
the law regarding Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) requests and
the release of other documents, but added that it will gladly
withhold information if deemed necessary.

"You have a right to know what is going on in government," he
told the crowd. "But we also believe such rights are not
absolute."

Addressing concerns that the administration has been quick to
withhold sensitive information in the wake of the Sept. 11
attacks, Gonzales offered little hope that restrictions would be
eased. "Our policy is that we expect [federal] agencies to
follow the law," he said in response to a question about FOIA
requests being delayed or ignored. "If an exception exists,
[agencies] can follow the law. If [they] decide to withhold
information that is permissible under law, [they] may do so."

In defending the administration, Gonzales pointed out that the
president had invoked executive privilege to block the release
of federal documents only once since taking office. He also said
that only 200 lawsuits seeking FOIA disclosures had been filed
during Bush's first year in office, compared to 600 in the last
two years of the Clinton administration.

"I am confident that history will confirm that the
administration did what it thought was necessary," Gonzales
said.

But several editors in attendance said his remarks showed a
clear effort to keep as much information secret as possible.
"When a message is given out to government that they don't have
to give out documents if they don't want to, that shows they are
antagonistic to open records," said George Stanley, managing
editor of the Milwaukee (Wis.) Journal Sentinel.

Ken Tuck, deputy managing editor of The Dothan (Ala.) Eagle,
agreed. "It sounds like we may not get what we need when we need
it."

Source: Editor & Publisher Online








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                       Re: Greer Vs. Spielberg - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 03:37:27 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 09:22:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Greer Vs. Spielberg - Velez


 >From: Grant Cameron <presidentialufo@presidency.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 11:42:10 -0500
 >Subject: Greer Vs. Spielberg

 >DDT

 >(Decoy, Distract and Trash)

 >by

 >Steven M. Greer M.D.
 >Director, The Disclosure Project

 >Copyright 2002

<snip>

Hello All,

Now that Dr. Greer has vented his spleen on Spielberg et al.,
allow me to share with you my own knowledge of the man behind
the rant. Nobody has to take my word for any of this BTW. It's
all at the UFO UpDates Archive. I urge you to check for
yourself - use the Google Search box at the bottom of the page
at:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/

It's educational and you'll gain insight into why many of us
have such strong feelings about Dr. Greer - none positive. I'll
provide a brief synopsis here, for the more lazy, who will never
actually visit The Archive and do all that reading.

Lengthy post ahead. (But so was Greer's.) Consider your self
duly warned. Grab a bag of popcorn before reading. ;)


A little real-life history.....

Shortly after my joining this List (early 1996) there was a post
to the List from several Scottish UFO researchers. They had
issued a plaintive transatlantic appeal to anyone who could help
them to recover a video of a flying triangle that a local Scot
had captured on tape. A videotape that - according to them - Dr.
Greer & Co. had 'absconded' with after a visit to Scotland.

Outrageous right? I thought so too at the time. I figured that
there had to be some kind of misunderstanding. Long story
short... I was wrong. There was no 'misunderstanding.' It turned
out that the outlandish rip-off the Scotsmen claimed had been
perpetrated by Dr. Greer was indeed - by Greer's own admission -
what had happened. Greer pleaded 'guilty with an explanation'
when he was first confronted.

I decided to snoop around a little bit just to satisfy my own
morbid curiosity about the whole bizarre affair. Man, I did I
get a snoot-full!

Not only did Greer admit to absconding with the Scottish UFO
video, but it turned out that the whole European junket was made
possible by Laurence Rockefeller. It was revealed that Greer had
flown to Europe with some of his staff in one of Rockefeller's
private Lear jets. Nobody's business under ordinary
circumstances. But these were no 'ordinary' circumstances.

Given the awkward situation that had thrust Dr. Greer into the
public spotlight in the first place, all this business involving
Rockefeller, the Scottish video and the jaunt to Europe in one
of Rocky's Lear jets raised many legitimate questions and
elevated the whole situation to the level of a genuine
curiosity.

EBK himself and other long-time List members, will verify the
fact that Dr. Greer and one of his female assistants (whose name
I will not mention because she has since then passed on) both
became downright insulting, threatening and belligerent with
several researchers on this List.

List members who were only asking honest questions. Greer & Co.
became stoically defensive, offensive, rude and insulting.

His public response was outrageous. The people being attacked
were really good, reputable people like John Stepkowski and
others who were initially only trying to ascertain and sort out
the facts of the situation. Greer used smear tactics, liberally,
in order to draw attention away from himself. It didn't work.

I stepped on that cowpie myself. I telephoned Dr. Greer.

It was a revealing conversation to say the least. Full of
phrases like; "undisclosed secret sources," - one of the golf
clubs he reaches into the bag for regularly. See his post above
for a recent example, - and he made completely unsubstantiated
claims like; "98% (his statistics not mine) of all abductions
are being carried out by clandestine factions of the American
military and intelligence branches of our own government". The
whole telephone conversation ran on and on like that.

Bear in mind that I had called to ask about the GD UFO tape!
Period. He volunteered all the other unrelated information
without _any_ prompting from me. He spilled his guts like a
stereotype stoolie in an old gangster movie. It was
unbelievable. I thought to myself, as I listened to him tell me
about secret this and secret that, "wow, this guy would be one
tough cookie to crack if it wasn't for that leaky hole in his
face! <VBG>

Instead of enlightening me about the Scottish situation, the
conversation only served to make me wonder what kind of 'doctor'
would tell an abductee that, (quote) "Secret military sources
had informed him that they were responsible for almost _all_
reported abductions. How could he know that news like that
wouldn't flip me out, or make me pick up a gun and head for the
Pentagon to pick off 'suits' at random? Or worse yet, scare me
into paranoia.

Aside from the fact that that wasn't the reason I had called, or
that he didn't for a moment consider how such a revelation might
affect someone like me who was involved in the phenomena as a
'subject', what really struck me was how he spilled his guts to
me, a complete stranger, about things he himself was telling me
were "top secret"! As if I was an old confidant and not a 'first
time' caller. It set off more than one or two of my internal
alarms.

The upshot to the whole incident was; Greer left the List in a
huff, refusing to discuss the matter and the whole thing 'went
away', eventually.

Strike one.

But wait, there's more.

Next time we hear about Dr. Greer, it turns out that some people
were complaining and 'whistle-blowing' on CSETI. They complained
that Dr. Greer was charging people three hundred plus dollars a
year to join his organization, *CSETI. (*Another rip-off BTW.
This time the name of a well known and established organization.
'SETI') And it wouldn't be the last time that Dr. Greer's name
would come up in connection to some kind of rip-off. But I
digress.

Back to CSETI:

Here's a question we all asked at the time:

"What does one get for their $300+ dollars donation when they
shell it out to join CSETI?"

The remarkable answer turned out to be that; the paid members
got to roam around in cow pastures at night vectoring in UFOs by
waving flashlights at them. All this for only a few hundred
measly dollars.

Strike two!

Hang in there, it gets better.

The 'next time' Greer's name comes up it is in regard to certain
researchers who were threatening to sue Greer and his CSETI
because he had plagiarized their cases for his own disclosure
project report. Yes, you heard me correctly. He took the results
of the hard labor of other researchers, put his own 'brand' on
it, and attempted to publish it under the CSETI heading.
Unbelievable.

Strike three! (Now ordinarily anybody with an ounce of shame
would simply head for the dugout. But not our intrepid Dr.
Greer. He just stared down the pitcher and refused to give up
the batter's box.)

But let's trudge onward.

Next comes The Disclosure Project. Along with some of his own
witnesses, many of us were left in complete shock when he (at
the last minute) grafted on "space based defense weapons" and
"Free energy" to the UFO agenda. Some of his own people balked
at and resented that move on his part. His own people state that
they advised him against it, and that he added it to the agenda
despite their protestations.

Strike four? Yep, another swing and a miss. You just can't get
this guy to hit the showers already.

Then... the issue of the proper vetting of the disclosure
witnesses came up. As many 'good ones' as are on that witness
list, there are a few bona fide clinkers in the lot that could
possibly serve to kill the whole effort by calling into question
the quality of the other, less publicly known, witnesses.

Strike five! Enough already!

You get the picture? Does anybody else detect a pattern in Dr.
Greer's UFO career? Do you understand why I take the time of
life to write posts such as this one?

Make up your own mind about how much stock you want to put into
the ravings of a person like the 'good doctor'. As far as I'm
concerned Greer struck out after the first three swings. But
some of you may be more forgiving than I am.

For your information only. Do with it what you will.

'Rave on Dr. Greer!'


John Vele
speaking strictly for myself without
exaggeration or embellishment. "Just the facts ma'am."  ;)

Sign the International Petition to the United Nations
for disclosure of information pertaining to UFOs.

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition








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   Oct > Oct 26

                             MOGUL Mangled Math

From: Brad Sparks <removedbyrequest>
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 06:36:27 EDT
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 09:31:51 -0400
Subject: MOGUL Mangled Math


Since I don't really have time for analyzing mass errors and
falsifications of data that are printed in black-and-white and
not going anywhere and will still be there for anyone to
discover years from now, I'll just present the tables for now:


C. B. MOORE's CONTRADICTORY STATEMENTS ABOUT NYU FLIGHT 5

Closest Approach to Roswell:

Moore's 1948 map shows the balloon passed 4 miles south of Roswell.

Moore's 1995 map shows the balloon passed 10 miles south of Roswell.

Moore's 1997 map shows the balloon passed 11 miles south of Roswell.

Moore in 2002 now claims the balloon passed 15-20 miles south of
Roswell base. (Moore email to Pflock, July 22, 2002.)


Balloon Impact Distance from Roswell:

Moore's 1948 map shows the impact point 17 miles east of Roswell.

Moore's 1995 map shows the impact point 30 miles east of Roswell.

Moore's 1997 map shows the impact point 34 miles east of Roswell.

Moore in 2002 now claims the impact point was 26 miles east of Roswell.
(Moore email to Pflock, June 20, 2002.)


Please note that C. B. Moore claimed in 1995 and 1997 that he
had "REPRODUCED" these maps and data "WITHOUT CHANGE" from his
1948 report:

See Pflock 2001 (p. 252) reproducing the map from Moore's March
27, 1995, report with the caption stating (my emphasis by
capitals added):

     "The plot for Flight #5 was taken WITHOUT CHANGE from Figure 32
     in NYU Balloon Project Technical Report #1, but the data for
     Flight #6 have azimuth and height CORRECTIONS to make them fit
     the recovery location."

NOTICE that when "CORRECTIONS" are legitimately made that fact
is OPENLY STATED, but it was done only for Flight 6.

Similar stronger statements are made by Moore in the 1997 book
(p. 93, my capitals added):

     "... on NYU Flight #5, I find NO REASON TO MODIFY THE ORIGINAL
     GROUND TRACK shown in NYU Figure 32 [in the 1948 report] and
     REPRODUCED here as Figure 2. . . ."

Moore of course has a reason to want to make it seem that the
Flight 5 balloon pass much farther away from Roswell base than
it actually did.  This has been discussed before.


As to the 23 gross math errors by Moore listed below, I'll just
say that if they are corrected the balloon lands almost 50 miles
too far to the NE of the Foster Ranch debris field.  Who knows
where the Flight 4 balloon actually landed?

Brad Sparks



SERIOUS MATH ERRORS IN C. B. MOORE's RECONSTRUCTION OF ALLEGED
ROSWELL CRASH BALLOON -- NYU MOGUL FLIGHT #4
(Saler, Ziegler, Moore, 1997, Table 5, pp. 106-7)

(Round numbers given for simple mental calculation followed by
exact numbers from Moore's table.  All calculations APPROXIMATE
and rounded off.)


MOORE MATH ERROR NO. 1

Balloon rising to 4921 ft: Rise about 900 ft in 3 mins
(852 ft in 2.8 mins)

Correct rise rate:          304 ft/min
Moore's math error:     600 ft/min

("Same row" rule used here. "Prior row" and "next row" won't
rescue Moore: Figures are 100 or 600 ft/min.)


MOORE MATH ERROR NO. 2

Balloon rising to 9843 ft: Rise about 1600 ft in 4 mins
(1641 ft in 4.1 mins)

Correct rise rate:          400 ft/min
Moore's math error:     600 ft/min

("Same row" rule used here. "Prior row" and "next row" won't
rescue Moore: Figures are both 600 ft/min.)


MOORE MATH ERROR NO. 3

Balloon rising to 52000 ft: Rise about 2800 ft in 4 mins
(2787 ft in 4.2 mins)

Correct rise rate:          664 ft/min
Moore's math error:     350 ft/min

("Same row" rule used here. "Prior row" and "next row" won't
rescue Moore: Figures are 450 and 70 ft/min.)


MOORE MATH ERROR NO. 4

Balloon rising to 52100 ft: Rise 100 ft in about 12 mins
(100 ft in 12.1 mins)

Correct rise rate:            8 ft/min
Moore's math error:     70 ft/min

("Same row" rule used here. "Prior row" and "next row" won't
rescue Moore: Figures are 350 and 40 ft/min.)


MOORE MATH ERROR NO. 5

Balloon rising to 53700 ft: Rise 1600 ft in 30 mins

Correct rise rate:          53 ft/min
Moore's math error:     40 ft/min

("Same row" rule used here. "Prior row" and "next row" won't
rescue Moore: Figures are 70 and 40 ft/min.)


MOORE MATH ERROR NO. 6

Balloon rising to 54500 ft: Rise 800 ft in about 40 mins
(800 ft in 41.3 mins)

Correct rise rate:          19 ft/min
Moore's math error:     40 ft/min

("Same row" rule used here. "Prior row" and "next row" won't
rescue Moore: Figures are 40 and 27 ft/min.)


MOORE MATH ERROR NO. 7

Balloon rising to 57000 ft: Rise 2500 ft in about 60 mins
(2500 ft in 64.8 mins)

Correct rise rate:          39 ft/min
Moore's math error:     27 ft/min

("Same row" rule used here. "Prior row" and "next row" won't
rescue Moore: Figures are 40 and 21 ft/min, and while the
"prior row" rule might work here and two other places, it
doesn't work anywhere else, and it enlarges the size and number
of errors.)


MOORE MATH ERROR NO. 8

Balloon rising to 58000 ft: Rise 1000 ft in about 90 mins
(1000 ft in 85.7 mins)

Correct rise rate:          12 ft/min
Moore's math error:     21 ft/min

("Same row" rule used here. "Prior row" and "next row" won't
rescue Moore: Figures are 27 and 20 ft/min.)


MOORE MATH ERROR NO. 9

Balloon rising to 60600 ft: Rise 2600 ft in about 70 mins
(2600 ft in 67.5 mins)

Correct rise rate:          39 ft/min
Moore's math error:     20 ft/min

("Same row" rule used here. "Prior row" and "next row" won't
rescue Moore: Figures are 21 and 15 ft/min.)


MOORE MATH ERROR NO. 10

Balloon rising to 60700 ft: Rise 100 ft in 5 mins

Correct rise rate:          20 ft/min
Moore's math error:     15 ft/min

("Same row" rule used here. "Prior row" and "next row" won't
rescue Moore: Figures are 20 and -300 ft/min, and while the
"prior row" rule might work here and two other places, it
doesn't work anywhere else, and it enlarges the size and number
of errors.)


MOORE MATH ERRORS NO. 11 and 12

Balloon rising to 60750 ft: Rise 50 ft in about 6 mins
(50 ft in 6.2 mins)

Correct rise rate:                8 ft/min
Moore's math errors:        -300 ft/min

(Two errors here, of sign and magnitude. "Same row" rule used
here. "Prior row" and "next row" won't rescue Moore: Figures are
15 and -400 ft/min.)


MOORE MATH ERROR NO. 13

Balloon falling to 54000 ft: Rise -3000 ft in 5 mins

Correct rise rate:          -600 ft/min
Moore's math error:     -500 ft/min

("Same row" rule used here. "Prior row" and "next row" won't
rescue Moore: Figures are -400 and -600 ft/min, and while the
"next row" rule might work here this once, it doesn't work
anywhere else, and it enlarges the size and number of errors.)


MOORE MATH ERROR NO. 14

Balloon falling to 52000 ft: Rise -2000 ft in about 4 mins
(-2000 ft in 4.2 mins)

Correct rise rate:          -476 ft/min
Moore's math error:     -600 ft/min

("Same row" rule used here. "Prior row" and "next row" won't
rescue Moore: Figures are -500 and -700 ft/min, and while the
"prior row" rule might work here and two other places, it
doesn't work anywhere else, and it enlarges the size and number
of errors.)


MOORE MATH ERROR NO. 15

Balloon falling to 49000 ft: Rise -3000 ft in about 7 mins
(-3000 ft in 6.6 mins)

Correct rise rate:          -455 ft/min
Moore's math error:     -700 ft/min

("Same row" rule used here. "Prior row" and "next row" won't
rescue Moore: Figures are -600 and -800 ft/min.)


MOORE MATH ERROR NO. 16

Balloon falling to 42651 ft: Rise about -6000 ft in 10 mins
(-6349 ft in 10.2 mins)

Correct rise rate:          -623 ft/min
Moore's math error:     -800 ft/min

("Same row" rule used here. "Prior row" and "next row" won't
rescue Moore: Figures are -700 and -850 ft/min.)


MOORE MATH ERROR NO. 17

Balloon falling to 32808 ft: Rise about -10,000 ft in 8 mins
(-9843 ft in 7.7 mins)

Correct rise rate:          -1278 ft/min
Moore's math error:       -850 ft/min

("Same row" rule used here. "Prior row" and "next row" won't
rescue Moore: Figures are -800 and -900 ft/min.)


MOORE MATH ERROR NO. 18

Balloon falling to 6562 ft: Rise about -3000 ft in 2 mins
(-3281 ft in 2.2 mins)

Correct rise rate:          -1491 ft/min
Moore's math error:       -900 ft/min

("Same row" rule used here. "Prior row" and "next row" won't
rescue Moore: Figures are both -900 ft/min.)


MOORE MATH ERROR NO. 19

Balloon falling to 5900 ft: Rise about -700 ft in 0.4 min
(-662 ft in 0.4 min)

Correct rise rate:          -1655 ft/min
Moore's math error:       -900 ft/min

("Same row" rule used here. "Prior row" and "next row" won't
rescue Moore:  "Prior row" is -900 ft/min and there is NO "next
row.")


MOORE MATH ERROR NO. 20

Table entry 4921 ft:
(12 mph in 2.8 mins)
Moore's math error total distance from launch ("HDO")   0.4 mile
Correct total distance from launch:                     0.56 mile

This is almost a 30% error.

("Same row" rule used here. "Prior row" and "next row" won't
rescue Moore because after several more entries Moore's numbers
approach the correct numbers when using the "same row" rule
consistently.)

(Tim Printy's desperate suggestion that Moore goofed and used
the 9 mph wind velocity from the prior row instead of 12 mph on
the same row is easily refuted by looking at Moore's north and
east, or "u" and "v," velocity vector components which are 9.9
mph and 6.7 mph, the first of which is already obviously larger
than the 9 mph value, and they agree with the 236 degree wind
direction, not the 9 mph wind's 197 degree direction.  Vector
combination of the "u" and "v" values using the simple
Pythagorean theorem yields 12.0 mph exactly as it should, not
the 9 mph figure.)


MOORE MATH ERROR NO. 21

Table entry 4921 ft:
(9.9 mph in 2.8 mins)
Moore's "x" math error total East distance from launch: 0.3 mile
Correct total East distance from launch:                0.46 mile

This is about a 35% error.

("Same row" rule used here. "Prior row" and "next row" won't
rescue Moore because after several more entries Moore's numbers
approach the correct numbers when using the "same row" rule
consistently.)


MOORE MATH ERROR NO. 22

Table entry 4921 ft:
(6.7 mph in 2.8 mins)
Moore's "y" math error total North distance from launch: 0.2 mile
Correct total North distance from launch:                0.31 mile

This is about a 35% error.

("Same row" rule used here. "Prior row" and "next row" won't
rescue Moore because after several more entries Moore's numbers
approach the correct numbers when using the "same row" rule
consistently.)


MOORE MATH ERROR NO. 23

Table entry 6562 ft:
(7.0 mph in 2.7 mins)
Difference in Moore's "y" value from prior entry: 0.4 mile
Correct change in North distance from launch:     0.32 mile

This is about a 25% error.

("Same row" rule used here. "Prior row" and "next row" won't
rescue Moore because after several more entries Moore's numbers
approach the correct numbers when using the "same row" rule
consistently.)








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   Oct > Oct 26

                       Re: Greer Vs. Spielberg - Koch

From: Joachim Koch <Achimdkoch@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 06:46:46 EDT
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 09:45:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Greer Vs. Spielberg - Koch


 >From: Grant Cameron <presidentialufo@presidency.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 11:42:10 -0500
 >Subject: Greer Vs. Spielberg

 >DDT

 >(Decoy, Distract and Trash)

 >by

 >Steven M. Greer M.D.
 >Director, The Disclosure Project

<snip>

As some of you might remember, Hans-Juergen Kyborg and I were
the originators of the 'Roswell Declaration' which was then
brought into form and life by Kent Jeffrey.

You surely will remember the outstanding success this
world-wide grassroots effort had. For the first time ever,
CUFOS, MUFON and FUFOR worked together and signed and supported
this initiative by its highest representatives.

It was supported and signed by people from all over the world
and from all social strata. We received hundreds of signatures
from scientists from various countries. And two Apollo
astronauts signed the Declaration, too. All in all, we received
more than 20,000 signatures and there still are about 3,000 in
our hands here in Germany.

Many on this List have signed the Declaration, too.

You surely will remember the tragic end of the effort by the
(ordained?) 180 degree tournaround of Kent and his delivery of
the Declarations by mail and not, as originally intended,
personally to some office in Washington where they have been
ignored and stored away a box (and where they hopefully still
are...).

You have witnessed what happened in the course of the new
Roswell campaign in the mid-90's and how Decoy, Distract and
Trash was used to maintain that cover up.

Dr. Greer is known to us personally, we have worked with him in
England in the course of our long term crop circle research.
This cooperation always was very fruitful and successful.

We strongly hope that this discussion will not focus on the
person of Dr. Greer - though we understand that it is enticing
for some - but only on the topic he is raising.

Less than a century ago, we here in Germany had a 'Government'
that wanted to have global power and control and started wars in
several places on this planet.

They used several tools to accompany their goals - one was
propaganda. Their major propaganda tool was the media and
especially the film industry. The major film empire was located
in Babelsberg, a small village south of and near Berlin. Many
of the great filmstars had houses there and many parties among
themselves along with officials and authorities.

The main goal of that film industry was to show what and who is
right and wrong according to the rules of the rulers. Enemies
were created and it was shown how to beat them. With this
concept, many were been 'Taken'.

So we here in Germany may have a special sense and a very aware
eye for certain propaganda and every day, we see a  lot of it.

We think, that we need men like Dr. Greer - and others - who
remind us of certain aspects in our lives and that we should
have a closer look at our seemingly secure reality.

The mechanisms to establish global power are already deeply
entrenched on this planet. We think that those who have an
interest in global control are of ordinary human origin. We
think that we are being watched - this time closer than ever -
  how we get along right now and the proof and the artifacts of
that watch are used to raise fear.

We _know_ that among these 'watchers' there are benevolent ones.
These have not shown up in 'Groom Lake City' but on and around
Woodborough Hill, Wiltshire, South England, Europe. If you want
to see them, look up in: Koch/Kyborg, "Vernetzte Welten", Kopp
Verlag, Germany:

http://www.kopp-verlag.de

and/or L. M.Howe, "Mysterious Lights and Crop Circles", p. 53-55
and 177.


Their presence is hope. What we do see right now on this planet
is change. We humans are making the change and the 'watchers'
are undeniably here to remind us of our ability to do that --
in every respect.


Joachim Koch &
Hans-Juergen Kyborg
Berlin







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   Oct > Oct 26

              Re: Brazilian Found Wandering In Chilean Desert -

From: Thiago Luiz Ticchetti <thiagolt@opengate.com.br>
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 09:26:41 -0200
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 09:48:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Brazilian Found Wandering In Chilean Desert -


 >From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm@arrakis.es>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: Brazilian Found Wandering In Chilean Desert
 >Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 20:41:28 +0200

 >>From: Thiago Luiz Ticchetti <thiagolt@opengate.com.br>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 12:54:52 -0300
 >>Subject: Re: Brazilian Found Wandering In Chilean Desert

 >>A couple here in Brazil, named Vargas, were said to have been
 >>abducted in Brazil and then left in Mexico. I thought that it
 >>was very similar.

 >>I know that the ufology does not need rumors and speculation,
 >>but if we do not try to show what we think is important, we'll
 >>never anywhere.

 >Rumors strike again!

 >Thiago. The teleportations from Brazil to Mexico are
 >_just_ urban legends.

 >Please refer to my article 'Teleportations: A Review Of The
 >Phenomenon In Ufology' - The Anomalist #10 (2002).

 >If you have any first-hand testimony of them, please let us
 >know.


Luis,

I will check what I have here about this kind of "event" and let
you know, ok?

Where Can I get your article?


Saludos

Thiago Luiz Ticchetti

Vice-Presidente da Entidade Brasileira de Estudos
Extraterrestres (EBE-ET) Bras=EDlia/Brasil

www.ebe-et.com.br







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   Oct > Oct 26

                       Re: Greer Vs. Spielberg - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 06:09:58 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 09:51:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Greer Vs. Spielberg - Hatch


 >From: Royce J. Myers III - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 16:41:17 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Greer Vs. Spielberg

 >>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
 >>Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 14:00:06 EDT
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Subject: Re: Greer Vs. Spielberg

 >>>From: Grant Cameron <presidentialufo@presidency.com>
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 11:42:10 -0500
 >>>Subject: Greer Vs. Spielberg

 >>>DDT (Decoy, Distract and Trash)

 >>>by

 >>>Steven M. Greer M.D.
 >>>Director, The Disclosure Project

<snip>

 >>>All good disinformation has some real, true information
 >>>contained within it. The mixing of truth with lies makes the
 >>>lies believable. So by hoaxing a scary alien abduction scenario
 >>>with serious data, evidence, documents and witnesses, the lie
 >>>goes down so much more smoothly...

 >>Well, Greer ought to know given some of the names he has on his
 >>lists of "witnesses". Even when the evidence is presented to
 >>him, he ignores it, crying that they can't check out everyone...
 >>which, of course, is exactly what they should be doing...

- - - -

 >Sloppy is the word for Greer not investigating any of his so-
 >called witnesses.  We know if Greer did, and he actually
 >started to screen out the phonies, his list of witnesses would
 >be much shorter. For Greer to claim it impossible and costly to
 >investigate these people is absolute nonsense. Greer railing
 >against thorough investigation goes to further prove that his
 >effort is not as sound as he claims and he is probably well
 >aware of it.

 >As for "Decoy, Distract and Trash" tactics applied to UFOs,
 >Greer has no further to look than the mirror.  Hey Doc, we
 >haven't forgotten about your outrageous story of the military
 >attacking the ET underground base in Colorado.

 >Greer wrote:

 >>Well, there is just something for everyone, if you can get
 >>people to buy it. But how?

 >How about advertising friendly space aliens and charging people
 >to learn how to vector 'em all in?

Flashlights might help.

 >How about plagiarizing other people's UFO material and selling
 >it as your own?

 >Or how about trying to charge members of MUFON in Washington
 >state $2500.00 per person to come on out and vector in UFOs with
 >their flashlights with Greer and crew setting the time and
 >location?

 >Oh, wait - Greer's already done that.

 >If you want to talk about a credibility problem, or clouding the
 >issue with nonsense, the sad news is that Greer is a major part
 >of it.


Hello Royce:

A simple question for all of us.

Is Dr. Greer still licensed to practice medicine?

If so, in which State?


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch








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   Oct > Oct 26

                     Re: Magonia Supplement 41 - Harney

From: John Harney <magonia@harneyj.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 21:46:40 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 08:19:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 41 - Harney


 >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 09:20:39 -0300
 >Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 41

 >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 41
 >>Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 20:58:41 +0000

 >>>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 20:26:30 +0100
 >>>Subject: Magonia Supplement 41

 >>>Here is the latest issue of the Magonia Supplement, edited by
 >>>John Harney. A net version is available at:

 >>>MAGONIA Supplement
 >>>No. 41 22 October 2002

 >>>EDITORIAL

 >>>In this issue we return to the theme of the ETH, which this
 >>>newsletter was originally started to discuss, with the aim of
 >>>getting believers in the ETH to present the best evidence for it
 >>>in a clear and rational manner and to list those UFO incidents
 >>>which they thought should be presented as the most promising
 >>>indications that the ETH might be true, and might eventually be
 >>>shown to be true. It was all in vain, as most ETH enthusiasts
 >>>greatly resent having their favourite UFO reports subjected to
 >>>critical examination and seeing all the flaws and
 >>>inconsistencies in the stories laid bare. However, we intend to
 >>>persist in exposing the weaknesses of the case for ET spaceships
 >>>and their occupants, in the hope that some ufologists will
 >>>eventually see sense.

 >><snip>

 >>What a pack of nonsense! You (and/or John Harney) don't bother
 >>to read or study, or respond to, publications like The UFO
 >>Evidence, Volume II, which provide overwhelming reason to take
 >>the ETH seriously and that indeed go into hardcore cases in great
 >>detail.

 >Right on Dick. Remember the 4 basic rules for debunkers as well
 >illustrated in Magonia:

 >1. What the public doesn't know, I won't tell them.

 >2. Don't bother me with the facts, my mind is made up.

 >3. If you can't attack the data, attack the people.

 >4. Do research by proclamation, investigation is too much
 >   trouble.

 >The naivity shown by the notion that we would have access to
 >radar and spy satellite info, re space and airborne uncorrelated
 >targets produced by the Aerospace Defense Command and NRO
 >satellites and collected by NSA while listening to their foreign
 >equivalents, is monumental.


Stan

You haven't explained how all relevant (to UFO activity)
information re. uncorrelated targets or from satellites gathered
by any government or private organisation, amateur or
professional, anywhere in the world, is kept secret.

 >Just note that more than 95% of the 156 UFO documents released
 >by the NSA are whited out. No way that is all sources and methods
 >data.

If they are whited out, how do you know what sort of information
is being concealed?

Government agencies usually say that certain information is
suppressed because to release it would reveal details of agents
(spies) and their methods of obtaining information, also
classified details of the performance capabilities of military
aircraft, radar equipment, etc.

If you know they are concealing UFO data, then you must either
have confirmatory evidence from another reliable source, or you
are just guessing.


John Harney








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                         Can't You Spell 'Sheaffer'?

From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@optonline.net>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 19:57:12 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 11:42:21 -0400
Subject: Can't You Spell 'Sheaffer'?


 >From: James Oberg <jamesoberg@houston.rr.com>
 >To: rjcohen@optonline.net
 >Cc: robert@debunker.com
 >Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 12:03:27 -0500
 >Subject: can't you spell 'Sheaffer'?


At 12:03 PM 10/25/2002 -0500, you wrote:

 >Hi!

 >People might take you more seriously in your criticisms
 >of people's opinions if you spelled their names correctly.
 >If you don't, it's just more proof you never read them
 >carefully or understood them. I know that's true in the
 >cases when you try to refute my own published writings.

 >your pal,

 >JimO

jc      Because I'm surprised by it, I'd like everyone to see
it.

Hi Jim,

When you have nothing better to say, attack an obvious typo.
I guess it's easier to do rather than listening to what the
person is really saying.

BTW, try providing solid proof (source footnotes, etc.) for the
things you think I don't understand in your own published
writings. Oh, and also try being a little more specific about
which ones you think I don't understand. I'd be happy to discuss
them.

Jerry

PS I thought you had more than that to offer. Perhaps I was
mistaken.

PPS The man can't tell me himself?

PPPS Mr. Sheaffer, my sincere apologies for the misspelling.
(However, what I said was accurate and correct.)

PPPPS Reader's Digest Great Encyclopedic Dictionary
Pal: "A friend or chum"

Jim, I guess you don't understand the definition or you would
have found a nicer way to say it.


- - - - - - - -







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                              Re: APRO? - Young

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 11:00:59 EDT
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 11:49:07 -0400
Subject: Re: APRO? - Young


 >From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 22:23:53 -0700
 >Subject: APRO?

 >Can someone tell me what happened to Aerial Phenomena Research
 >Organization - APRO ? I can't find them anywhere. If someone can
 >point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it.

Brian:

APRO folded years ago after the deaths of its founders, Jim and
Coral Lorenzen. Much of the files are now at the Center for UFO
Studies.


Clear skies,

Bob Young









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                      Re: Magonia Supplement 41 - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 15:46:35 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 12:38:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 41 - Hall

 >From: John Harney <magonia@harneyj.freeserve.co.uk>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 21:23:19 +0100
 >Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 41

 >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 41
 >>Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 20:58:41 +0000

 >>>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 20:26:30 +0100
 >>>Subject: Magonia Supplement 41

 >>>Here is the latest issue of the Magonia Supplement, edited by
 >>>John Harney. A net version is available at:

 >>>MAGONIA Supplement
 >>>No. 41   22 October 2002

 >>>EDITORIAL

 >>>In this issue we return to the theme of the ETH, which this
 >>>newsletter was originally started to discuss, with the aim of
 >>>getting believers in the ETH to present the best evidence for it
 >>>in a clear and rational manner and to list those UFO incidents
 >>>which they thought should be presented as the most promising
 >>>indications that the ETH might be true, and might eventually be
 >>>shown to be true. It was all in vain, as most ETH enthusiasts
 >>>greatly resent having their favourite UFO reports subjected to
 >>>critical examination and seeing all the flaws and
 >>>inconsistencies in the stories laid bare. However, we intend to
 >>>persist in exposing the weaknesses of the case for ET spaceships
 >>>and their occupants, in the hope that some ufologists will
 >>>eventually see sense.

 >><snip>

 >>What a pack of nonsense! You (and/or John Harney) don't bother
 >>to read or study, or respond to, publications like The UFO
 >>Evidence, Volume II, which provide overwhelming reason to take
 >>the ETH seriously and that indeed go into hardcore cases in great
 >>detail.

 >>Until you do, Magonia continues to be an advocate of ex cathedra
 >>"truth" and the debunker party line, quite divorced from any
 >>rational analysis of data.

 >The point is that the analysis of UFO data, rational or
 >otherwise, has failed to provide us with any reason - apart from
 >wishful thinking - to believe that any of these reports are true
 >accounts of visits by ET spacecraft. Some of them are certainly
 >puzzling and difficult to explain, but that does not justify the
 >assumption that they must be ETs.

John,

"Assumption" has nothing to do with it. If you have any
scientific training or knowledge of logic, you should be able to
understand the difference between that and an hypothesis based on
analysis of data. "Wishful thinking" has nothing to do with it
either, as I directly address in The UFO Evidence, Volume II,
and refute that, er, assumption.

 >Also, if you actually read my article you will see that I am not
 >being dogmatic. I point out that all objections to the ETH are
 >irrelevant or invalid except one - the lack of convincing
 >evidence to support it. If and when that evidence becomes
 >available then I'll just have to accept that it must be true.

I was responding to the editorial, clearly, which stated that no
one had advanced their best cases and the reasons why they
suggest the ETH, and that ETH advocates somehow resented
(instead of engaged in) critical-minded case investigations.
Bosh!


  - Dick








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              Re: Were Lights UFOs Or Just A Laser Show? - Pope

From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 17:07:30 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 12:40:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Were Lights UFOs Or Just A Laser Show? - Pope


 >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 20:56:54 +0200
 >Subject: Were Lights UFOs Or Just A Laser Show?

 >Source: The Gloucestershire Echo
 >WERE LIGHTS UFOS OR JUST A LASER SHOW?
 >10:30 - 25 October 2002

 >Were there aliens hovering over Gloucestershire last night?
 >The two green shapes, which appeared to "chase each other",
 >were seen over Winchcombe at 8.30pm yesterday. Those
 >watching were mystified and suspect they may have been UFOs.

Stig and List,

I have investigated numerous cases where witnesses reported
UFOs chasing each other rapidly around the sky. In almost
every such case, checks revealed that the sightings could be
correlated with the use of powerful searchlights being used at
nightclubs, rock concerts, etc.

http://www.metroskytracker.com

or

http://www.skycannon.com

show the sort of machines increasingly being used as part of
promotional campaigns. I have seen these spectacular light
displays myself, and am sure that other List members have too.
Of more relevance, I have seen other people react to such
displays in ways that made it clear that they believed they were
seeing UFOs.

A local ufologist or journalist should be able to check if any
of these searchlights were being used in the area concerned at
the time of this particular UFO sighting.

Best wishes,

Nick Pope








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                             Re: APRO? - Aldrich

From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 13:6:4 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 17:50:23 -0400
Subject: Re: APRO? - Aldrich


 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 11:00:59 EDT
 >Subject: Re: APRO?

 >>From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 22:23:53 -0700
 >>Subject: APRO?

 >>Can someone tell me what happened to Aerial Phenomena Research
 >>Organization - APRO ? I can't find them anywhere. If someone can
 >>point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it.

 >APRO folded years ago after the deaths of its founders, Jim and
 >Coral Lorenzen. Much of the files are now at the Center for UFO
 >Studies.


No, Bob, incorrect. There are some materials at CUFOS as
mentioned in my previous post on this subject. The majority of
the APRO files are unavailable to the public.

Concerning the APRO microfilms, Southwest Microfilms did the
work. They have been contacted and did not retain a copy of
material in their vaults. The microfilms where made about 10
years prior to the demise of APRO so even if we had all three
microfilms we would not have the complete sighting files.

Several former APRO officials have been contacted about the
microfilms. So far all attempts to find the other two APRO
microfilms, have met with failure. We continue to pursue
leads on this.


Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
http://www.project1947.com/
P. O. Box 391
Canterbury, CT 06331
(860) 546-9135








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                    Re: Chile: UFO Over Angol - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 12:50:09 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 17:53:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Chile: UFO Over Angol - Maccabee


 >From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 07:29:44 -0400
 >Subject: Chile: UFO Over Angol


 >SOURCE: Terra.Cl
 >DATE: October 25, 2002

 >9th Region of Chile
 >UFO PHOTOGRAPHED OVER THE CITY OF ANGOL

 >A number of anomalous aerial phenomena recorded over the area
 >since the month of September. They intensified as from October
 >14.

 >ANGOL, October 25: The city of Angol in Chile's Ninth Region has
 >recorded a number of UFO waves in recent years. Reports have
 >been collected by local researcher Raul Gajardo, who presented a
 >full report of the cases which transpired during the month of
 >September 2002. One of the most important cases occured on 9/18.
 >According to the report: a well-known local businessman saw a
 >fuchsia-colored object firing a blue beam of light. "Then
 >another similar object appeared. From this last one, which fired
 >a similar blue beam, three smaller object of the same color were
 >clustering around it. Then all of them "turned off", except for
 >the first object. He saw [this process occur] ten times and
 >later managed to photograph the objects with a powerful zoom
 >lens," states the report.

Blue Beams of Light? A short time ago we had the following
report:

 >UFO Emits Beam Near Tyrone, PA (October 20, 2002)

 >From Researcher: Stan Gordon
 >PA UFO/Fortean Hotline: (24 hours) 724-838-7768
 >paufo@westol.com
 >Stan Gordon's UFO Anomalies Zone: http://www.westol.com/~paufo

 >On October 21, 2002, I received an email report of a UFO incident from
 >the witness involved. The sighting reportedly occurred on Sunday,
 >October 20, 2002, near Tyrone, PA in Blair County. The man forwarded
 >details concerning his experience, as well as two color photographs that
 >he took of the object before it departed. The witness indicated that he
 >had also forwarded this material to the National UFO Reporting Center.

 >The witness is very concerned about being ridiculed, and requests not to
 >be identified. Due to his concerns, my only communication with the
 >witness has been via email. He has responded to my request for
 >additional details concerning his observation. Due to computer
 >problems, I am unable to post the photographs at this time. I have
 >talked with Peter Davenport at the National UFO Reporting Center,
 >http://www.nwlink.com/~ufocntr/ who is expected to post the pictures as
 >soon as he completes his sighting report updates.>

 >Sighting report narrative:

 >The witness was hiking in the woods on Ice Mountain near the town of
 >Tyrone. The man had stayed out longer than he expected that day. He
 >estimated that it was about 7:30 P.M. (local time) as he was walking
 >back to his vehicle, when he noticed a bright light south of his
 >location, moving towards him in a northerly direction. His first
 >impression was that it was an airplane. The light appeared similar to
 >the brightness of a normal aircraft light when first observed. He then
 >noticed that the light suddenly stopped, then began to pulsate and
 >appear to brighten and dim. The witness then noticed a faint haze that
 >was orange-red in color, and which encircled the object.

 >The pulsation pattern of the light began to increase, and it started to
 >flicker very rapidly. The light became might brighter as it pulsated.
 >Suddenly a thin beam of very bright blue-white light was emitted from
 >the bottom of the object to the ground.

 >The witness points out that this was not an ordinary searchlight. The
 >witness stated, "This was no searchlight. Even a well focused
 >searchlight tends to diffuse with distance, but this light was a tight,
 >bright beam from top to bottom." The man tried to describe the
 >appearance of the beam with the following statement. "Imagine a piece of
 >dental floss held at arms length, and you'll have a good idea of the
 >beam's apparent width from my location.

Blue (and other color) beams have been reported over the years.
For example Billie Zammit (Nov. 1987), Roger McCann (March,
1988) and Truman Holcomb (April, 1988) reported blue beams
emanating from the object(s) they saw. They all live(d) in Gulf
Breeze, Fl. hovering and emitting a blue beam.








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              Re: SETI Launches New Detection Scale - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 12:50:21 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 17:56:35 -0400
Subject: Re: SETI Launches New Detection Scale - Maccabee


 >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 18:13:48 -0700
 >Subject: Re: SETI Launches New Detection Scale -

 >>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 15:07:49 UT
 >>Subject: Re: SETI Launches New Detection Scale

 >>Perhaps we need to have some sort of rating scale similar to
 >>this for UFO sightings.

 >That seems like a useful idea to me, provided the UFO scale were
 >easily convertible into a probability, p.

 >p = 1 would mean it was/is definitely a "genuine" UFO (Photos,
 >multiple witnesses & other evidence all agree, a large piece of
 >the UFO and/or alien(s) would be available somewhere for
 >qualified scientists to examine and sample, and report on). Of
 >course, no case as yet available to us reaches this level of
 >certainty.

 >p = 0.5 would mean it could be a genuine UFO, but just as likely
 >be a mistaken identity or hoax. Complete uncertainty.

 >p = 0 would mean it was definitely a mistaken identity or hoax
 >(hoaxer confessed and showed how he/she did it, or the witness's
 >description fits a known, natural or man-made
 >phenomenon/artifact in all details, including timing and
 >location.)

 >Intermediate values would need intermediate definitions rather
 >like as done with the Rio scale.

 >The value of using probabilities is that once such p values have
 >been assigned to a large number of potential UFO cases (say,
 >those with p>0.5), their probabilities can be combined to give a
 >single overall probability assessment that "genuine" UFOs exist,
 >using a simple formula that can be derived using Bayesian
 >statistics. The final answer could very well be as large as P =
 >0.99999... SETI is only looking for ONE genuine event, so they
 >evidently aren't yet concerned with accumulating probabilities
 >from multiple events.


The big problem is and always has been assigning probability to
a single event. Probability is well defined when a series of
events of the same type occur with (apparently) a random but
finite number of outcomes. For example, two sides of a coin
after a flip... you may not know which side is going to come up
but you know it will be one or the other. With a die (dice) you
get 1 spot, 2 spots, etc. up to 6 spots, but never any number
outside that range.

With UFOs there are differences from sighting to sighting and
there is always an argument over whether or not any particular
object sighted is actually a UFO. If we could identify N
(number) cases that absolutely were UFOs, then we would have an
idea of what UFOs (TRUFOs/AFI - Alien Flying Craft or the aliens
themselves) are "supposed" to look like and then we might be
able to assign probabilities that other cases are sightings of
these "known" UFOs.








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                              Re: APRO? - Vike

From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net>
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 10:09:13 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 17:58:51 -0400
Subject: Re: APRO? - Vike


 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 11:00:59 EDT
 >Subject: Re: APRO?

 >>From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 22:23:53 -0700
 >>Subject: APRO?

 >>Can someone tell me what happened to Aerial Phenomena Research
 >>Organization - APRO ? I can't find them anywhere. If someone can
 >>point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it.

 >Brian:

 >APRO folded years ago after the deaths of its founders, Jim and
 >Coral Lorenzen. Much of the files are now at the Center for UFO
 >Studies.

Hi Bob

Thank you for cluing the old fellow in, he that is. I did know
APRO folded years ago. I just thought a another husband and wife
team started it up again. Mind you, maybe it was a branch off
the original organization. I was even on their mailing list at
one time, which I believe was last year. Their website was at
Homestead.com.

Thank you very much

Brian









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                             Re: APRO? - Speiser

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 10:32:21 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 18:00:34 -0400
Subject: Re: APRO? - Speiser


 >From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 11:13:33 -0700
 >Subject: Re: APRO?

 >Hi Jim

 >Thank you, I thought a gal by the name of Jan, and her husband
 >were running it. Or at least last year. I haven't heard anything
 >at all anymore and was wondered.

 >As for the files, wasn't it something like 7 filing cabinets
 >filled with cases, etc.? Well, from what I got was some greedy
 >fellow approached the Lorenzen family to request the files, he
 >got them from what I heard. But he was to share them with the
 >UFO community.

 >I heard this fellow has them placed in his basement and are for
 >sale, at a very good price. If this is all true, then so much
 >for sharing the information with the UFO community.

 >I guess for some, the buck is more important.

 >This is what I heard, if true or not, who knows.

This was the case several years ago, when I took my
"sabbatical." However, when I visited the offices of ICUFOR in
Scottsdale, I was unable to see the actual files.  I understand
that Travis Walton also went to the offices and attempted to see
his own file, which he had seen when in the possession of the
Lorenzens, but was shown something that fell quite short of what
he remembered in terms of volume.

So what they have, or who actually has the files, may in fact be
in contention.

==JJS==







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                     Re: Magonia Supplement 41 - Speiser

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 11:08:32 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 18:02:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 41 - Speiser


 >From: John Harney <magonia@harneyj.freeserve.co.uk>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 21:05:22 +0100
 >Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 41

 >>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 13:32:48 -0700
 >>Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 41

 >>>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 20:26:30 +0100
 >>>Subject: Magonia Supplement 41

 >>>Here is the latest issue of the Magonia Supplement, edited by
 >>>John Harney. A net version is available at:

 >>>www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/00/ms41.htm

 >>>-----------------------------------------------------------

 >>>MAGONIA Supplement
 >>>No. 41 22 October 2002

 >>I don't think this is a completely accurate representation of
 >>the OZ factor, or maybe I'm the one who doesn't understand it,
 >>but I've been given to believe that it refers to a "feeling of
 >>high strangeness" reported by many witnesses, especially in
 >>Close Encounters.

 >>It is a feeling of isolation in space and time, that the
 >>experience is being lifted out of the tapestry of our daily
 >>reality and "highlighted" in such a way that time seems to stand
 >>still and space consists only of the object, the witness, and
 >>the intervening locus.

 >>My wife described this feeling to me after her close-encounter -
 >>without ever having heard of the Oz factor. It may be a normal
 >>occurrence that accompanies any strange, out-of-the-ordinary or
 >>traumatic event, but it's iniquitousness in UFO encounters is
 >>especially noteworthy; further, some of these witnesses have
 >>also had more mundane traumas such as traffic accidents, yet
 >>seem to speak of the feeling during a UFO encounter as
 >>"something completely different."

 >I agree. My comments were too brief to give an accurate or
 >meaningful description of what has been called The Oz Factor.

 >The article is really about the ETH, and the point is that the
 >Oz Factor makes no difference to it one way or another. In other
 >words, people would have these strange experiences whether we
 >are being visited by ETs or not, as there is no good reason to
 >suppose that they are caused by the activities of ETs.

I accept your conclusion ("people would have these strange
experiences") but I'm not on board with your premise ("There is
no good reason to suppose that they are caused by...ETs.")
  Would you accept that there is good reason to SUSPECT that they
are caused by something other than the tired old explanations
offered, Venus, balloons, noctilucent owls, etc.?  And that said
suspicion is cause enough to continue investigating without
being hampered by the sneering pronouncements of would-be
debunkers?

Also, it seems to me the lack of satellite photos or detection
upon entry is a rather pedestrian argument in light of advances
being made in theoretical physics, quantum mechanics, etc.  Is
it not feasible that ET vehicles could be entering our airspace
through some kind of wormhole or by using other dimensions for
travel? Or has this somehow been ruled out by the hallowed halls
of science?


==JJS==







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                      Re: Greer Vs. Speilberg - Kimball

From: Paul Kimball <Kimballwood@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 14:46:09 EDT
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 18:06:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Greer Vs. Speilberg - Kimball


A note on my own experience with Dr. Greer.

We interviewed him for our documentary on Stanton T. Friedman -
he was in Irvine at the MUFON Symposium last year, and was more
than willing to talk, so, we thought, why not?

Needless to say, we did not use any of his interview in the
film, which was intended to take a serious look at Stan's
career, and ufology in general. Dr. Greer's remarks, and the
manner in which he delivered them, were, to say the least, 'out
there'. He managed to mention Stan once, in passing, in a forty
minute interview. I have interviewed a lot of people - including
politicians, who usually have the market cornered on self-
agrandizement, but Dr. Greer was in a leaugue (or world) of his
own. The best that can be said about him is that he was earnest.

Of course, my crew and I were quite entertained, but the
interview itself was useless. It's inclusion in the film in any
way would have been a dis-service to Stan, to all members of the
ufological community, and to the subject itself, no matter which
side of the fence on which you may sit. I suspect even the
debunkers secretly cringe when Dr. Greer speaks.

Dr. Greer can knock Mr. Speilberg all he wants. I have
absolutely no doubt that his television series is better off
without Captain Cuckoo (as my sound man dubbed him) on board.


Paul Kimball

Redstar Films Limited
Halifax, Nova Scotia








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                      Robert Kennedy Skeptical On UFOs

From: Grant Cameron <presidentialufo@presidency.com>
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 16:24:31 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 18:09:35 -0400
Subject: Robert Kennedy Skeptical On UFOs


Robert Kennedy Skeptical On UFOs

Newly released letters written by the late Senator and
Presidential candidate Robert Kennedy show clearly that Kennedy
was skeptical about UFOs and about the possibility of any United
States Air Force cover up.

The three newly released letters were written in 1965 to
researcher Robert E. Barrow, formally with the Air Force, and a
writer of articles in UFO magazines in the 1970s.

"I have noted from time to time public discussions about UFO's
and the basis for such phenomena," wrote Senator Kennedy. "From
the evidence available to date, I do not believe that UFO
phenomena are caused by vehicles of extraterrestrial origin."

Kennedy stated, however, "Not enough is known about UFO
sightings," and conceded that some "reputable witnesses" had
been involved. This led Mr. Barrow to write back and offer
Kennedy a copy of  "UFO Evidence Report," which had been put out
by the UFO research organization NICAP. Kennedy replied that he
had already seen the publication.

When Barrow wrote Kennedy about whether the Senator believed the
Air Force was covering up, Kennedy was direct and to the point.

"I have looked into this matter in detail," wrote Kennedy. "I do
not believe that the Air Force is censoring any information of
interest to the public on so-called 'Unidentified Flying
Objects'."

The new letters are significant because they totally counter a
previously published May 1968 letter by researcher Gray Barker,
where Kennedy expressed sincere interest in UFOs. Many
researchers have questioned this letter for years.

Kennedy's skeptical views found in these new letters is also
important in light of documents recently leaked into the UFO
community claiming the Kennedy assassination was due in large
part to an order given by Kennedy shortly before his death for
all UFO files.

The actual documents can be seen at
www.presidentialufo.com/kennedy_skeptical.htm

---








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              Re: SETI Launches New Detection Scale - Deardorff

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 18:44:34 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 19:49:44 -0500
Subject: Re: SETI Launches New Detection Scale - Deardorff


 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 12:50:21 -0400
 >Subject: Re: SETI Launches New Detection Scale

 >>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 18:13:48 -0700
 >>Subject: Re: SETI Launches New Detection Scale -

 >>>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 15:07:49 UT
 >>>Subject: Re: SETI Launches New Detection Scale

 >>>Perhaps we need to have some sort of rating scale similar to
 >>>this for UFO sightings.

 >>That seems like a useful idea to me, provided the UFO scale were
 >>easily convertible into a probability, p.

 >>p = 1 would mean it was/is definitely a "genuine" UFO (Photos,
 >>multiple witnesses & other evidence all agree, a large piece of
 >>the UFO and/or alien(s) would be available somewhere for
 >>qualified scientists to examine and sample, and report on). Of
 >>course, no case as yet available to us reaches this level of
 >>certainty.

 >>p = 0.5 would mean it could be a genuine UFO, but just as likely
 >>be a mistaken identity or hoax. Complete uncertainty.

 >>p = 0 would mean it was definitely a mistaken identity or hoax
 >>(hoaxer confessed and showed how he/she did it, or the witness's
 >>description fits a known, natural or man-made
 >>phenomenon/artifact in all details, including timing and
 >>location.)

 >>Intermediate values would need intermediate definitions rather
 >>like as done with the Rio scale.

 >>The value of using probabilities is that once such p values have
 >>been assigned to a large number of potential UFO cases (say,
 >>those with p>0.5), their probabilities can be combined to give a
 >>single overall probability assessment that "genuine" UFOs exist,
 >>using a simple formula that can be derived using Bayesian
 >>statistics. The final answer could very well be as large as P =
 >>0.99999... SETI is only looking for ONE genuine event, so they
 >>evidently aren't yet concerned with accumulating probabilities
 >>from multiple events.

 >The big problem is and always has been assigning probability to
 >a single event. Probability is well defined when a series of
 >events of the same type occur with (apparently) a random but
 >finite number of outcomes. For example, two sides of a coin
 >after a flip... you may not know which side is going to come up
 >but you know it will be one or the other. With a die (dice) you
 >get 1 spot, 2 spots, etc. up to 6 spots, but never any number
 >outside that range.

 >With UFOs there are differences from sighting to sighting and
 >there is always an argument over whether or not any particular
 >object sighted is actually a UFO.

Yes, that would remain the biggest problem. There would never be
any agreement between a CSICOP type person and a ufologist (let
alone between too many ufologists) as to how probable any
particular UFO sighting is of representing a "genuine" UFO.
Nevertheless, we all agree that a case with multiple credible
witnesses is better than one without, and with photos is also
better than without, and with radar all the better, the longer
the duration the better, the closer the encounter the better,
etc. So a small panel of ufologists might be able to agree on
probability estimates for a number of cases on the basis of how
likely or unlikely each could have been any manifestation of
nature or manmade, assuming that UFOs (TRUFOs) may exist.

 >If we could identify N
 >(number) cases that absolutely were UFOs, then we would have an
 >idea of what UFOs (TRUFOs/AFI - Alien Flying Craft or the aliens
 >themselves) are "supposed" to look like and then we might be
 >able to assign probabilities that other cases are sightings of
 >these "known" UFOs.

With that approach, N=1 ought to be enough. But we know that
skeptics can always find some way, however illogical, for
claiming any particular case for UFO reality was not absolutely
airtight. Then its associated value of p would lie slightly
below 1.0. Then, the greater N is, the better.

Each UFO case analyzed would have independent elements of
evidence supporting it, and each of innumerable UFO cases are
independent of each other; so probability could be a relevant
tool.

Jim Deardorff







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                Re: SETI Launches New Detection Scale - Young

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 10:22:45 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 19:56:03 -0500
Subject: Re: SETI Launches New Detection Scale - Young


 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 12:50:21 -0400
 >Subject: Re: SETI Launches New Detection Scale

<snip>

 >With UFOs there are differences from sighting to sighting and
 >there is always an argument over whether or not any particular
 >object sighted is actually a UFO. If we could identify N
 >(number) cases that absolutely were UFOs, then we would have an
 >idea of what UFOs (TRUFOs/AFI - Alien Flying Craft or the aliens
 >themselves) are "supposed" to look like and then we might be
 >able to assign probabilities that other cases are sightings of
 >these "known" UFOs.

Bruce, Jim, Bill, List:

Bruce has outlined a reasonable approach to the alternatives:
TRUFO, UFO and IFO.

A requirement that actual data or physical evidence must be
available or published so that true public peer-review can occur
in order to allow everybody to judge for themselves.

That's called scientific review, I guess.


Clear skies,

Bob Young







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                              Re: APRO? - Young

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 10:27:02 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 19:57:49 -0500
Subject: Re: APRO? - Young


 >From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 10:09:13 -0700
 >Subject: Re: APRO?

 >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 11:00:59 EDT
 >>Subject: Re: APRO?

<snip>

 >I was even on their mailing list at
 >one time, which I believe was last year. Their website was at
 >Homestead.com.

Brian:

Perhaps somebody else on the List could provide details but I
believe that the name, 'APRO', was being used recently but the
list was not really affiliated with the Arial Phenomenon
Research Organization founded by the Lorenzens.


Clear skies,

Bob Young







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                    Re: Greer Vs. Spielberg - Stockstill

From: Bill Stockstill <size14d@bigfoot.com>
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 10:50:59 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 20:00:48 -0500
Subject: Re: Greer Vs. Spielberg - Stockstill



 >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 06:09:58 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Greer Vs. Spielberg

 >Hello Royce:

 >A simple question for all of us.

 >Is Dr. Greer still licensed to practice medicine?

 >If so, in which State?



Hi Larry:

Greer states he is an E.R. MD from N.C. if memory serves
correctly.

Personally I don't see how Spielberg's 'Taken' series can do no
more then increase awareness and interest in the phenomenon like
Communion did when it was on the N.Y.T. Best Sellers list.

If you look at how Spielberg met and worked with Hynek with
'Close Encounters', you have to believe he has a genuine
interest (which he states goes back to his dad taking him to
watch a meteor shower one night) in UFOs and the number of
sightings through the years versus working for some secret
government entity that wants to spread disinformation.

And frankly, the more I learn about our little Grey friends, the
less inclined I am to go into a field at night and wave a
flashlight at any suspicious object.

But then again, the spread of West Nile might just be a
conspiracy to keep Greer and Company out of the fields too! ;-]


Bill








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               Veterinarians Analyse Chilean Humanoid Creature

From: Dr. Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <ufomiami@prodigy.net>
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 09:32:10 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 20:03:06 -0500
Subject: Veterinarians Analyse Chilean Humanoid Creature


Veterinarians Analyse Chilean Humanoid Creature

Dr. Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo
Miami UFO Center
ufomiami@prodigy.net
10-27-2


Santiago, Chile

Preliminary lab analysis and opposing views from different
veterinarians regarding the discovery of the alleged humanoid
being have generated controversy and debate not only in Chile,
but also throughout Latin America and in Europe. Ever since Mega
News Network of Chile first reported the story of the 3-inch
long creature found near Concepcion by family members during an
outdoors trip, numerous speculations, rumors, and theories about
the origins of that creature have begun to spread. The opinions
from different veterinarians and health specialists in Chile are
sharply divided, some point out that the alleged humanoid
creature is nothing more than part of the local wild life,
mentioning the possibility that it is a wild cat, or perhaps a
so-called monito de monte or mouse opossum (Dromiciops
Gliroides), which is a marsupial commonly found in Chile and
Argentina. Other health specialists assure that the creature
does not fit the descriptions of any local animal.

Doctor Mario Dussuel conducted a preliminary analysis on the
tiny carcass. According to Dussuel, the 3-inch long carcass
indicates that is neither a fetus, nor the remains a feline. "I
took a good look at the tiny mummified body. It is very strange,
very small, very light, but what caught my attention is its
slanted eyes. Besides its unusual physical appearance, what
makes it different than any animal from the area is the length
of its fingers, and how thin its neck is", he explained.


Dussuel also mentioned that in order to proceed with any further
studies, it is necessary to conduct an electronic microscopic
analysis from tissue samples, and perhaps obtain a DNA sample
from the tiny carcass. "It is very important that we conduct
these tests. Without studying the tissue and DNA samples, we
cannot make a distinction between different animal species, or
if its biological composition could somehow be similar to that
of a human fetus. This is indeed an extraordinary case, and it
may resonate nationally and abroad" he said.


On the other hand, in an interview with investigator Cristian Riffo, Doctor
Arturo Mann, a specialist from the University of Santo Tomas assured that
the alleged creature is nothing more than a mouse opossum, a small mammal
that inhabits the Valdiviana Forest in Southern Chile. "The carcass does not
appear to be a human fetus. During my preliminary analysis, I concluded that
this small mammal belongs to the local wild life. By looking at its long
fingernails, it is possible that it used its hands to dig. Its physical
characteristics are similar to those of a monito de monte (mouse opossum).
This particular species is related with marsupials from Australia, but the
Chilean relatives are much smaller. These are nighttime animals. They eat
insects and small fruits," he said.


Basing his study on wild life publications in the University of
Santo Tomas, Doctor Mann claims that he is 90% certain about his
conclusion. He also explained how the `mouse opossum' found in
Concepcion could have died. It is very possible that this mammal
was very weak. "Marsupials in Chile hibernate and become drowsy
during the winter. When these marsupials consume and gather
enough food, they begin their hibernation in April or May, and
it lasts until August or September. At the end of their
hibernation period, they are very weak because they have not
consumed any food for months. In addition to that, there could
have been unfavorable climatic conditions for this marsupial to
survive," he said.


However, other veterinarians are not so sure that it may be
"just a mouse". In order to demonstrate that the alleged
creature found in Concepcion was not the mouse opossum, three
veterinarians went on national television to express their
disagreement. The Megavision Television Network invited the
young veterinarians on the show titled "The Law of the Jungle,"
on October 26 of 2002.  Each veterinarian was specialized in
different fields; one was specialized in insects, another one in
wild animals, and the last one in domestic animals and pets. The
wild life specialist (pictured left) claimed to have studied the
mouse opossums of Valdiviana and he assured that the dead
specimen does not correspond to that particular species type.


During their television appearance, the veterinarians conducted
a preliminary analysis of the carcass. "The lower jaw does not
present the typical characteristics of a mouse opossum; it does
not have the small pointed teeth. The cranial formation is at
least double the size if compared with those particular mammals.
Unfortunately, the carcass is badly decomposed and we cannot
examine the upper jaw. And strangely enough, now that I just
mentioned how decomposed this specimen is, let us not forget
that this is highly unusual; I have never seen a body so
decomposed after being dead fro only 25 days," said one of them.
"Furthermore, the mouse opossum has a tail. This specimen does
not have a tail and does not present any trace of evidence that
it had one at some point in time. Another remarkable difference
is the fact that its body does not have any traces of hair; the
only hair we are able to find is on what appear to be its
eyebrows. Mouse opossums have a very thick coat of hair
throughout the body." They also pointed out to obvious physical
aspect differences, such as the long and thin torso, as well as
how the slanted eyes are so much larger than the ones of a mouse
opossum.


Another veterinarian referred to investigations conducted by
Jaime Ferrer in Northern Chile; he compared the carcass to
eyewitness descriptions mentioning the "Chupacabras." Several
references were made to different foot tracks found by Ferrer,
as well as articles and photos posted on Rense.com and the Miami
UFO Center website. They announced that the final results of
their analyses will be revealed within days.


Stay tuned_


Special thanks to Jaime Ferrer
Translation by Mario Andrade








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                     Re: Magonia Supplement 41 - Harney

From: John Harney <magonia@harneyj.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 17:42:02 -0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 20:04:56 -0500
Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 41 - Harney


 >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 11:08:32 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 41

 >>From: John Harney <magonia@harneyj.freeserve.co.uk>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 21:05:22 +0100
 >>Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 41

 >>The article is really about the ETH, and the point is that the
 >>Oz Factor makes no difference to it one way or another. In other
 >>words, people would have these strange experiences whether we
 >>are being visited by ETs or not, as there is no good reason to
 >>suppose that they are caused by the activities of ETs.

 >I accept your conclusion ("people would have these strange
 >experiences") but I'm not on board with your premise ("There is
 >no good reason to suppose that they are caused by...ETs.")
 >Would you accept that there is good reason to SUSPECT that they are
 >caused by something other than the tired old explanations
 >offered, Venus, balloons, noctilucent owls, etc.? And that said
 >suspicion is cause enough to continue investigating without
 >being hampered by the sneering pronouncements of would-be
 >debunkers?

I don't think the kind of strange experience you describe is
caused by Venus, balloons, etc., but the stimulus of seing these
things and failing to recognise them could _sometimes_ act as a
trigger for such an experience. I think we should distinguish
between strange experiences reported by individuals or small
groups, and sightings reported in the same area at the same time
by independent witnesses. Although some of these reports are
hard to explain, I can't see any reason to suppose that
credible, but as yet unexplained reports should be classified as
sightings of ET spacecraft.

 >Also, it seems to me the lack of satellite photos or detection
 >upon entry is a rather pedestrian argument in light of advances
 >being made in theoretical physics, quantum mechanics, etc. Is
 >it not feasible that ET vehicles could be entering our airspace
 >through some kind of wormhole or by using other dimensions for
 >travel? Or has this somehow been ruled out by the hallowed halls
 >of science?

Of course it's not ruled out, at least not by a number of
eminent physicists who are seriously considering such
possibilities. However, this work appears to purely theoretical
at present, so until someone devises a method which would detect
ET spacecraft entering our airspace through wormholes or other
dimensions, such ideas remain purely speculative.

The point of my arguments about the ETH is that I don't claim
that it is impossible or even improbable; I merely say that the
available evidence on UFO reports gives me no reason to believe
that any of them are genuine sightings of ET spacecraft.

John Harney








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                              Re: APRO? - Clark

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 14:24:24 -0600
Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 20:21:15 -0500
Subject: Re: APRO? - Clark


 >From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 10:09:13 -0700
 >Subject: Re: APRO?

 >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 11:00:59 EDT
 >>Subject: Re: APRO?
 >
 >>>From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 22:23:53 -0700
 >>>Subject: APRO?

 >>>Can someone tell me what happened to Aerial Phenomena Research
 >>>Organization - APRO ? I can't find them anywhere. If someone can
 >>>point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it.

 >>APRO folded years ago after the deaths of its founders, Jim and
 >>Coral Lorenzen. Much of the files are now at the Center for UFO
 >>Studies.

 >Thank you for cluing the old fellow in, he that is. I did know
 >APRO folded years ago. I just thought a another husband and wife
 >team started it up again. Mind you, maybe it was a branch off
 >the original organization. I was even on their mailing list at
 >one time, which I believe was last year. Their website was at
 >Homestead.com.


Brian,

You should not be thanking someone who doesn't know what he's
talking about.

Only a tiny fraction of APRO's files has surfaced. It remains in
the hands of 'another husband and wife team'. They have not
shared the materials, notwithstanding many approaches by CUFOS,
other organizations, and private individuals.

There is a long story here, and I won't go into it. Suffice it
to say Bob Young is wrong about who has the APRO files, sad to
say.

Jerry Clark








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                Review: UFOs And The National Security State

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 18:31:52 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 21:34:34 -0500
Subject: Review: UFOs And The National Security State


UFOs And The National Security State
Richard Dolan

Reviewed by Mac Tonnies

Historian Richard Dolan's "UFOs and the National Security State"
is an unsparing chronological narrative that charts the UFO
enigma (and its disturbing relationship with the US military-
industrial complex) from the beginning of the modern phenomenon
to 1973.

Dolan's book is as intelligent and sober as it is mind-boggling,
written with a welcome sense of irony and rooted in documented
fact. Dolan revealingly juxtaposes the UFO phenomenon with its
Cold War context, shedding light on the military's early search
for answers, NICAP's tireless efforts to bring the UFO issue to
Congressional attention, the duplicitous tactics of Project Blue
Book and the Condon Report, and much more.

"UFOs and the National Security State" is a unparalleled work by
an author not afraid to challenge "official history"--even if it
means exposing an enigma that defies conventional explanation. I
predict that Dolan's study will become a genuine classic; he's
raised the bar for scholars of the UFO coverup, and offers a
remarkably solid argument to the intellectually fashionable
"debunking" establishment.

This book redefines the 20th century landscape; I eagerly await
the second installment in Dolan's peerless overview.

For related titles, see:

http://mactonnies.com/ufobooks.html








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                   'Strange' Chilean Creature A Marsupial

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net>
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 17:51:46 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 07:38:49 -0500
Subject: 'Strange' Chilean Creature A Marsupial



Source: Terra.CL
Date: October 25, 2002

Veterinarian Arturo Mann:

It's Final: "Strange Creature Was A Marsupial"


This is what a monito de monte (mountain monkey) looks like.

A specialist from the University of Santo Tom=E1s stated that it
is a monito de monte, a small mammal that lives in the Valdivian
rainforest and hides during the day.

SANTIAGO, October 25: The mysterious creature which caused
expectation throughout Chile and which was even reputed to be
extraterrestrial in origin turned out to be a mammal known as
Monito de Monte (literally, mountain monkey). This was the
statement made by veterinarian and professor of the Univ. of
Santo Tomas, Arturo Mann, who subjected the specimen to
analysis. The specialist, who was one of the few scientists who
had access to the specimen found by a family in Concepcion,
stated that--based on his knowledge and publications--he can
assure with a 90% certainty that the species is terrestrial in
origin.

"After a preliminary analysis and without seeing it in "macro"
fashion, I have concluded that it is earthly. In other words, a
little animal, a mammal that presents hair, nails, fingers. It
is earthly and even terrestrial, which is to say, it's not a
flying animal. It shows appendages suited to walking and even
for digging, with long nails. The body shows some damage,
possibly from animal predation or poor care [in the handling] of
this little animal.

Terra.Cl: What is it, then?

"It is a small mammal, known as a micromammal, specifically a
marsupial and given the region it was found, would correspond
with a high degree of certainty to a "monito del monte". To
reach the conclusion that it is this "monito" or a marsupial, we
are mainly based in the fact that the anterior members present
five fingers with an opposable thumb. This means that the animal
can grip branches using its hand. That's why it's called
"monito" (little monkey).

Terra.Cl: It is commonly found in the southern area of the
country?

Not very commonly. It's a hard animal to find. Possibly these
people came across a moribund animal.

Terra.Cl: In this case, can we speak of a foetus or a newborn?

"It's a newborn, possibly weakened. Bear in mind that
marsupials in Chile hibernate during the winter. By not having
any food, they go to sleep in April or May, and in late August
and September, they emerge in a lethargic, weakened state to
find food. This makes them more vulnerable to attacks by other
animals or to die from climactic conditions."

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Translation (C) 2002 Institute of Hispanic Ufology
Special thanks to Liliana Nunez O









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                      Re: Greer Vs. Spielberg - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 19:25:18 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 07:41:33 -0500
Subject: Re: Greer Vs. Spielberg - Kaeser


 >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 06:09:58 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Greer Vs. Spielberg

 >>From: Royce J. Myers III - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 16:41:17 -0700
 >>Subject: Re: Greer Vs. Spielberg

<snip>

 >Hello Royce:

 >A simple question for all of us.

 >Is Dr. Greer still licensed to practice medicine?

 >If so, in which State?

If memory serves, he had a practice in North Carolina, but has since
moved to Virginia. I don't know if he is currently using his medical
skills.







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                         Re: APRO? - Ballester Olmos

From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos@yahoo.es>
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 01:25:54 +0200 (CEST)
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 07:45:48 -0500
Subject: Re: APRO? - Ballester Olmos


 >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 13:54:53 EDT
 >Subject: Re: APRO?

 >Actually the whereabouts of the files are known, it's just that
 >no one can come up with the $30,000.00 asking price.

 >KRandle


List:

I should have known better, as this was discussed in this or in
another List not much ago, but I confess I did not follow the
exchanges then, so I am asking: are the APRO files in the hands
of someone who tries to sell them for $30,000?

If that's the case, if I were a US citizen I would start a
national campaign to have the files under control before
something catastrophic occurs.

The amount is not out of this world. It takes 300 top guys at
100 bucks each: aren't there these in the greatest nation in the
world?

The final objective is worth of such a combined effort. The APRO
files are priceless in reality. Their destruction would be a
terrible loss and we all should be feel ashamed if it happens.


V-J









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                     For The Record: P-47: UFO Archives

From: Rod Brock <humble98225@YAHOO.COM>
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 22:59:46 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 07:30:30 -0500
Subject: For The Record: P-47: UFO Archives


Hello Brett, Michael, and gang,

In response to my inquiry about Arthur Constance, Brett wrote:
"I did a very unexhaustive search and came up with a few
biographical details..."

...whereupon he disclosed the following information on
Constance, from the Charle's Fort Institute (CFI)website:

http://www.forteana.org/articles/BR-intro.html

"At the time of his death, Constance had amassed over three
million, two million of them [news clippings on anomalous
phenomena] bound into 16,000 volumes ... and, dear reader, I
came this close to getting them..."

Thanks to both Brett and Chris for this information. Both you
and Chris chimed in with the same link at about the same time.
And I've got to say that either this flu has taken more out of
me than I realize, or my websearch skills are going down the
toilet. But, anyway, Michael Strainic went on to ask:

"And now the requisite painful question: Who *did* get them [the
clippings], or is it lost forever?"

Brett had neglected to paste in details of the untimely demise
of Constance's collection:

"I first learned of Constance's legendary collection in the mid-
1980s and he had died by the time I traced him. The greater blow
was learning that his Fortean clippings and books had, just a
couple of weeks previously, been dissipated as his family wanted
to emigrate and could not store them. The books were sold off in
lots to dealers - the clippings were (gulp!) burned."

The author of the above link, Bob Rickard, goes on to make a
plea for the establishment of a National Reference Collection
(U.K.) of Forteana, to avoid similar tragedies in the future.
Interested parties may read the entire article themselves by
following the link above. However, the following passage is
interesting, given the recent detailed posts Jenny Randles has
made here, in regard to the future direction of ufology:

"The CFI will be formed as a charitable company, independent of
any political, religious or ideological organisation or belief
and dedicated to the highest standards of scholarship. Its
principal object will be to provide existing organisations and
researchers with highly organised archive and related IT
resources, and to act as a focus for otherwise uncoordinated
research efforts, much as Jenny Randles called for at
UnConvention 97. With that in place, it is hoped that it will be
able to fund or promote new research initiatives of its own..."

When I first read about the two million clippings bound into
16,000 volumes, I was stupefied, to say the least, and more than
a little dismayed that such a massive collection is alleged to
have ended up at "Farenheit 451." I might have been able to
console myself with the thought that Constance's massive
collection was naught but a mythos - if it were not for the fact
that Constance says, in "The Inexplicable Sky:"

"...More cuttings for my files, increasing the 2 million
contained in them..." (p.71)

and

"...Collecting facts about meteorites -- just one of 5000
sections in my news cuttings..." (p.73)

My concern about this is no more vested than would be the
concern of anyone who recognizes the value that such a
collection might have had to researchers, today, or even simply
the value it would have held for posterity. There is, of course,
no use crying over spilled milk, but neither do I think that the
cliche "hindsight is 20-20" applies in this case, because we
don't even know what we lost.

The situation, now, is no different for ufology proper. The
disposition of various collections of ufological materials,
scattered here, there, and everywhere, has been knocked around
on this list enough that I don't need to go into it further. The
one main difference I see with ufology is the lack of any
concerted effort to get together and at least try to envision
what such a central repository for ufological materials might
look like.(emphasis on "lack of," "concerted effort," and most
importantly, "get together") By saying this, I do not in any
respect seek to discount the fine work many individuals have
done in regard to the preservation of ufological materials. But
I think, along the same lines that Ms. Randles has suggested,
that ufology is at a crossroads, and an entire
reassessment/restructuring of ufology is needed.

For anyone unfamiliar with CFI, and what they would like to
accomplish, have a look. It's a hard row to hoe, granted - for
the Fortean enthusiasts, as it is for ufology. But, in the final
cliche of this post, nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Cheers,

Rod








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                              Re: APRO? - Gates

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 22:14:33 EST
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 09:37:24 -0500
Subject: Re: APRO? - Gates


 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 11:00:59 EDT
 >Subject: Re: APRO?


 >>From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 22:23:53 -0700
 >>Subject: APRO?

 >>Can someone tell me what happened to Aerial Phenomena Research
 >>Organization - APRO ? I can't find them anywhere. If someone can
 >>point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it.

 >Brian:

 >APRO folded years ago after the deaths of its founders, Jim and
 >Coral Lorenzen. Much of the files are now at the Center for UFO
 >Studies.

Hi Bob,

Last I heard the 17 filing cab full of files were in literally
in storage somewhere around Phoenix. These files have apparently
been exposed to the extremes of heat (storage units have been
known to get as high as 120 plus degrees in the summer unless
air conditioned) and then cooling down to the Phoenix winter
temps.

I am not an expert on paper and so forth, but would imagine that
alone would contribute to decay and desintragration.

Cheers,

Robert








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                     John Podesta: Clinton's X-Files Man

From: Grant Cameron <presidentialufo@presidency.com>
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 23:56:09 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 09:39:56 -0500
Subject: John Podesta: Clinton's X-Files Man


John Podesta : Clinton's X-Files Man

"A popular government without popular information, or means of
acquiring it, is but a Prologue to a Farce or a Tragedy, or
perhaps both. Knowledge will forever govern ignorance, and a
people who mean to be their own governors must arm themselves
with the power which knowledge gives." Words written by
President James Madison in 1822 and inscribed outside the
Library of Congress Madison Building In Washington D.C.

Most men, when they turn 50, have some sort of birthday party to
celebrate their declining state of affairs. John Podesta,
President Clinton's Chief of Staff from 1998 to 2001, was no
exception. He had a party despite the fact that Podesta rarely
attended any parties or Washington social events. "I'm into the
cult of nonpersonality," he once told the Washington Post.

The difference between the average man's 50th birthday party,
and Podesta's, is that Bill and Hillary Clinton hosted Podesta's
party. The theme of the party was extraterrestrials, or more
accurately "The X-Files" a TV fictional drama about the
government conspiracy to cover up the existence of
extraterrestrial life.

Bill and Hillary, also both reportedly intrigued by the UFO
phenomena, performed an X-Files skit. Moreover, the President
arranged to have the actual X-Files cast produce a video where
they sang happy Birthday for Podesta.

The reason for the X-Files theme was that John Podesta was a man
openly obsessed with the show. Reporters referred to Podesta as
"the unofficial leader of the X-files Club in the West Wing of
the White House."

Podesta told U.S. News about the Sunday night show which he
never missed. "When the show about the aliens comes on," said
Podesta, "I get glued to the tube and try and figure out which
government agencies to call to determine if the show's story is
real or not." U.S. News further reported that Podesta had even
mailed one of the show characters, FBI agent Dana Scully."

The Washington Post also referenced Podesta "fanatical devotion
to the X-Files." They quoted Clinton Press Secretary Mike
McCurry who stated, "John can get totally maniacal and phobic on
certain subjects. He's been known to pick up the phone and call
the Air Force and ask them what's going on in Area 51."

Podesta spoke about his X-files obsession at a June 1998
Commencement Address he gave at his Alma Mater, Knox University.
He began by describing the upcoming X-File movie as the biggest
event of the year, and then described his White House office.

"Some people at the White House have coffee tables full of White
House trinkets. Others have what are known as "me walls" filled
with candid shots of them and the President. In my office at the
White House I have a little table that I've converted into an X-
Files shrine, with copies of books, fan magazines, CD-Roms,
photos of David Duchovny and Gillian Anderson. "

Despite his apparent yen for things extraterrestrial, in public
Podesta has taken a much more conservative political stance when
talking about extraterrestrials. The Las Vegas Review Journal,
for example quoted Podesta as being "skeptical that there is
extraterrestrial life." . Podesta's public position on UFOs is
also conservative. In speaking with the Las Vegas Journal he
simply stated, "I think it's time to open the books on questions
that have remained in the dark on the question of government
investigations of UFOs."

When asked about Area 51, Podesta stated, "My tendency is to try
and err on the side of openness rather than on the side of
secrecy, and I think a thorough review about whether more
information could be brought to light (about Area 51) would be a
worthwhile enterprise." Asked if "Area 51 harbors government
information about UFOs," Podesta said, "I can answer that, no."

On October 22 Sci-Fi Channel hosted a Washington UFO news
conference. Podesta appeared as a member of the public relations
firm hired by Sci-Fi to help get the government to open up
documents on the subject. In reporting on the news conference,
CNN.com quoted Podesta as saying "It is time for the government
to declassify records that are more than 25 years old and to
provide scientists with data that will assist in determining the
true nature of the phenomena."

The 25-year concept was a tenet of a Clinton administration
policy embodied in the Clinton 1995 Executive Order 12958. This
policy of classification and declassification was set up to deal
with a concern shared by Podesta and President Clinton. They
sought a proper balance of "openness in government" vs. what
Podesta coined as "unthinking secrecy." In short the Clinton EO
set up a policy that all government documents would be
declassified after 25 years except in exception circumstances.

The 12958 Executive Order had exceptional success in moving
government documents into public view. Between 1995 and 2000,
800 million pages of documents were declassified, compared to
188 million documents in the 15 years previous.

Despite some claims to the contrary, Podesta has always held
"openness in government" as one of his key beliefs. It was one
of the items noted about Podesta by the Washington Post in a
biographical article they wrote on him. They listed "encryption
technology, the declassification of government documents,
agricultural policy, and the impact of the Internet as Podesta's
main focuses at the White House. Other evidences of the Podesta
commitment to "openness in government" include:

  - He served as a member of the Commission on Protecting and
Reducing Government Secrecy chaired by Senator Daniel Patrick
Moynihan.

  - He was a member of the board of The James Madison Project, a
non-profit organization established in 1998, committed to
"promoting government accountability and reduction of secrecy."

  - He announced on Clinton's behalf the rejection of appeals
made by President Clinton the day before the end of his final
term. The appeals rejected were those of the President's Foreign
Intelligence Advisory Board and the Secret Service. Both groups
were attempting to block the release of "assassination records"
related to the death of former President John Kennedy.

  - Appearing in front of a group of intelligence officers at the
National Reconnaissance Headquarters, Podesta made a major
speech on classification and declassification, as it related to
the Clinton EO. He reminded the agents of the words Supreme
Court Justice Louis Brandeis that, "Sunshine is the best of
disinfectants." He also pointed out to them that, "our founders
knew that democracy cannot function in the absence of public
information." Finally he noted the importance of "balancing the
vital interests of national security with the genuine claims of
public openness . . .For over two centuries, we have prospered
and won because -- at our best -- we have found ways to do
both."

  - Appearing in front of the Senate Committee on Commerce,
Science and Technology Subcommittee on Science Technology and
Space, in May 2002, Podesta testified that he had been "deeply
involved in the development of budget and policy priorities in
this area" within in the Clinton White House. He spoke out
against the Bush administration policy of renewed scientific
secrecy, and for encouraging scientific research to be done by
the Defense Department and black programs. He encouraged "public
knowledge, public scrutiny with free exchange of scientific
information" which would "not only provide the basis to make the
breakthroughs necessary to stay ahead of our adversaries, but
may provide a better long-term security paradigm as well."

The Sci-Fi strategy of employing the high-powered John Podesta
is part of an effort by the Sci-Fi Channel to gain release of
secret government records on unidentified flying objects.
According to Ed Rothschild, the coordinator of the new group
formed by Sci-Fi to help achieve that end, `The Sci-Fi channel
has had an interest in (UFOs) for some time. The difference here
is that they are focusing attention to the serious, factual side
of the issue, and that scientists have not had a chance to
thoroughly examine it."

The strategy, however, comes with a few drawbacks. Firstly,
Podesta is from a democratic administration, which appeared to
have been cut out of the world of people who control the UFO
secret. There are many stories told of how the Clinton
administration attempted to initiate disclosure on UFOs but
failed.

Now with a Republican administration holding the reins of power,
Podesta is an outsider looking in. If he couldn't get the answer
while the right-handed man to President Clinton, chances are he
will achieve much less now. He does, however, bring a lot of
skill and experience about how to operate behind the scenes of
power in Washington where all the big decisions are made.

Another problem facing Podesta and the new Coalition for Freedom
Information group, formed by Podesta's public relations firm to
free-up government UFO documents, is the secrecy minded Bush
White House.

The day after Sci-Fi held their news conference seeking
information and study of UFOs by the government, George W.
Bush's White House Counsel Alberto Gonzales spoke in front of
the Associated Press Managing Editors. He warned that secrecy
would continue to be the order of the day. He stated that the
Bush administration would continue to follow the FOIA laws but
that if deemed necessary, information would be withheld.
Gonzales stated,

"You have the right to know what is going on in government, but
we also believe that such rights are not absolute. Our policy is
that we expect agencies to follow the law," but "if (they)
decide to withhold information that is permissible under law,
(they) may do so."

Podesta and the new CFI group will have their work cut out.
Perhaps their best chance for success will be another democratic
administration, which is at least two years away. Then Podesta
will be among politically like-minded friends who share his
values of open government, and unclassified scientific
investigation.

Then again, Podesta did most of the scandal management in the
Clinton White House. He gave himself the title "Secretary of
(expletive)." Senator Tom Daschle stated, "I've never seen John
lose it . . .He's also able to take disparate people and groups
and find common threads and common ideas."

Perhaps Podesta has some tricks up his sleeve. The Washington
Post spoke highly of Podesta's ability in handling the Monica
Lewinsky affair. "The lawyer in him can gather the facts," they
wrote, "and the political hand knows how to spin them." Only
time will tell.

--







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                         North 39 x West 76 Meteor?

From: Judith Simons <jsimons@bcpl.net>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 06:48:20 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 09:55:45 -0500
Subject: North 39 x West 76 Meteor?


Last evening, at approximately 7:35 p.m., a Maryland couple saw
a streak of white light like a shooting star, but with larger
dimensions. The sky flashed with light nearly simultaneously.

The driver described the streak as white light and as wide as
his thumb at arm's length.

The light appeared to "fall like a brick" and both he and his
wife say it appeared to impact just over the ridge in front of
the car.

The wife said it was so big it reminded her of watching the
times square ball coming down on New Year's Eve.

These people are friends, not given to exaggeration, and both
are successful visual artists, so I believe their estimate to be
accurate.

At the time of the event they were driving north and saw the
streak at the 10:30 position (with 12:00 as almost due north.)
Another witness, located about 8 miles away saw the sky light
up, but did not see the streak.

The couple's approximate location in the car: North 39=B0 33.845'
by West 76=B0 39.346'

The other witness's approximate location: North 39=B0 36.257'

We would appreciate any addition information concerning this
event.


Judith Simons







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                       Chile: More on Mystery Creature

From: Scott Cprrales <lornis1@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 09:13:31 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 21:14:07 -0500
Subject: Chile: More on Mystery Creature


SOURCE: Agence France Presse (AFP)
DATE: October 26, 2002

ASTONISHING MYSTERY CREATURE

SANTIAGO (AFP) -- A strange, skeletal mystery creature measuring
barely eight centimeters and belonging to an unknown species was
found moribund in a field in Southern Chile, where it has caused
a sensation.

The creature lived for eight days after having been found by a
child in the vicinity of Las Lagunas, some 500 kilometers south
of Santiago, and during that time it refused to accept water or
food.

Still agonizing, it constantly moved one of its eyes; once dead,
it mummified swiftly, according to reports, without decomposing.

The strange being's corpse has a large head disproportionate to
the rest of its body, eyes on the sides [of its skull] a thick
neck and four legs.

Veterinarian Pedro Katan, who examined it, confessed his
inability to establish the species to which it corresponds. UFO
groups have said it is not a terrestrial creature, according to
the "El Mercurio" newspaper.

The possibility that it could be a human fetus has also been
discarded, since the various cranial bones are welded among each
other, accoridng to surgeon Mario Dussuel, who held it in his
hands.  Dussuel, who is also a psychiatrist, does not believe
the case is a fraud.

"I questioned the family together and I found no signs of a
hoax, lies, contradiction or mythmaking. Nor is there any
interest in receiving compensation or other benefit," he added.
"There is nothing left to do but to submit the creature to
electron microscopy and DNA testing."

(C) Agence France Presse

============================================
Translation (C) 2002. Scott Corrales
Institute of Hispanic Ufology
Special thanks to Marco Reynoso, Fundacion Cosmos, AC







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                      Re: Magonia Supplement 41 - Hale

From: Roy Hale <roy.hale@ntlworld.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 14:26:34 -0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 21:15:15 -0500
Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 41 - Hale


Roy Hale is the Owner of The Lost Haven
http://www.thelosthaven.co.uk
Business, Marketing, Paranormal Research,
Buy on line Products.

 >From: John Harney <magonia@harneyj.freeserve.co.uk>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 17:42:02 -0000
 >Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 41

<snip>

 >The point of my arguments about the ETH is that I don't claim
 >that it is impossible or even improbable; I merely say that the
 >available evidence on UFO reports gives me no reason to believe
 >that any of them are genuine sightings of ET spacecraft.

Hi,

So you have seen the evidence for yourself, and claim no of it
makes a case for ETH? And the reason your still in to UFO
research is what?


Roy..







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              Chile: Further Naysaying in Mystery Creature Case

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 10:00:27 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 21:15:49 -0500
Subject: Chile: Further Naysaying in Mystery Creature Case



IMPORTANT NOTE: in view of the negative response to the
skeptical responses from the Chilean scientific establishment,
we must stress that many more "back and forth" articles such as
this one are to be expected. IHU does not place any "spin" on
its translations one way or another. In other words, what you
read is what you get, folks.

Scott Corrales
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

SOURCE: Las Ultimas Noticias (Chile)
DATE: October 27, 2002

"ALIEN" TURNED OUT TO BE A CHILEAN ANIMAL
** It is the "monito de monte", a wholly native marsupial **
by Fabian Llanca

The explanation of the enigma on the creature's origin satisfied
the UFO community.

An academician unveiled the mystery of the alleged alien that
fell in the 8th Region.

The strange creature, found by a minor in Concepcion, did not
belong to any alien civilization, or from outer space, but
rather to a very terrestrial creole marsupial species common to
the southern latitudes. This would be the "monito de monte" --
  or Chimaihu=E9n -- which has a mouselike appearance, lives in
dense enclosed forests and has nocturnal habits.

Up to yesterday, the being -- measuring 7 cm long, with a large
skull, two long arms, clawed fingers and two legs, met all of
the characteristics to be classified as an enigmatic ET, for
which reason its finder, Armando Henriquez, needed a swift and
solid explanation.

The explanation was delivered by Arturo Mann, a veterinarian and
professor of the University of Santo Tomas, who auscultated the
unknown organism. "I daresay that by its size, shape and
mandibles it could be this marsupial, which is hard to find in
Chile. It's silent, emits no odors, and is cryptic," he
explained.

Our fauna has three types of such animal: one of them is the
Yaca, which occupies the central zone and lives in spiny bushes.
Further south we find the aformentioned "monito de monte" and
the Comadreja Trompuda (long-muzzled weasel) which exist in
enclosed environments where quila and southern bamboo can be
found, and they feed by night on worms and insects.

"We do not have the good fortune of [being] Australia, which has
marsupials such as kangaroos. Our marsupials are more mouse-
like. People aren't aware of them and traps must be set in order
to catch them. They are not very common and it a live specimen
is found, the average person would think it's a mouse," Mann
explained.

Specifically, the specimen in the hands of the Henriquez Carre=F1o
family is not a foetus. It is probably a newborn or stunted
[specimen], or even an adult one, although certainty will be
obtained through X-rays. "I was startled by the fact that it had
long claws, meaning that this was a young animal close to its
mother, as [the claws] were not yet worn. These "monitos"
(monkeys) receive the designation because they wander around the
branches," added Arturo Mann.

Satisfaction

OVNIVISION--a ufological agency responsible for researching
sightings and analyzing such events--is satisfied with the
explanation and have closed the case on the enigma. "In spite of
the hulaballoo, because the being is truly strange, the trail
always leads to science, in the end. That is the idea." said
Cristian Riffo, the group's representative.

Regarding the veterinary conclusions, Riffo acknowledged that
"it is sometimes complicated to approach scientists. Mann knows
me and is interested in subjects which can be solved."

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Translation (C) 2002. Scott Corrales
Institute of Hispanic Ufology
Special thanks to Liliana Nunez O.








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                      Re: Magonia Supplement 41 - Hale

From: Roy Hale <roy.hale@ntlworld.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 14:44:54 -0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 21:38:24 -0500
Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 41 - Hale


 >From: John Harney <magonia@harneyj.freeserve.co.uk>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 17:42:02 -0000
 >Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 41

<snip>

 >The point of my arguments about the ETH is that I don't claim
 >that it is impossible or even improbable; I merely say that the
 >available evidence on UFO reports gives me no reason to believe
 >that any of them are genuine sightings of ET spacecraft.

Hi,

Genuine? Do you feel that the UFO sightings of the World are
false?

And what is a genuine ET spacecraft, in your eyes?


Roy..








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             Re: Review: UFOs And The National Security State -

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 15:03:34 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 21:41:04 -0500
Subject: Re: Review: UFOs And The National Security State -


 >From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 18:31:52 -0800 (PST)
 >Subject: Review: UFOs And The National Security State

 >UFOs And The National Security State
 >Richard Dolan

 >Reviewed by Mac Tonnies

 >Historian Richard Dolan's "UFOs and the National Security State"
 >is an unsparing chronological narrative that charts the UFO
 >enigma (and its disturbing relationship with the US military-
 >industrial complex) from the beginning of the modern phenomenon
 >to 1973.

 >Dolan's book is as intelligent and sober as it is mind-boggling,
 >written with a welcome sense of irony and rooted in documented
 >fact. Dolan revealingly juxtaposes the UFO phenomenon with its
 >Cold War context, shedding light on the military's early search
 >for answers, NICAP's tireless efforts to bring the UFO issue to
 >Congressional attention, the duplicitous tactics of Project Blue
 >Book and the Condon Report, and much more.

 >"UFOs and the National Security State" is a unparalleled work by
 >an author not afraid to challenge "official history"--even if it
 >means exposing an enigma that defies conventional explanation. I
 >predict that Dolan's study will become a genuine classic; he's
 >raised the bar for scholars of the UFO coverup, and offers a
 >remarkably solid argument to the intellectually fashionable
 >"debunking" establishment.

 >This book redefines the 20th century landscape; I eagerly await
 >the second installment in Dolan's peerless overview.

As a partial antidote to this review, I suggest you read my
review of Dolan's book in International UFO Reporter, Spring
2001.

Although his UFO history is reasonably accurate, I would
seriously dispute the "scholarly" label when it comes to his
conspiratorial view of Government secrecy.

  - Dick Hall








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              Chile: Researchers Battle Over Vet's Conclusions

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 10:52:07 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 21:45:38 -0500
Subject: Chile: Researchers Battle Over Vet's Conclusions



The following is a communique recieved from the CHILE C.I.O.
research group in regard to the conclusions reached by
veterinarian Arturo Mann on the alleged "monito de monte"
corpse. The communique was issued by Eric Martinez on October
26, 2002 and quotes  from a zoology broadcast on Chile's
Megavision TV station. Sebastian Jimenez, a veterinarian and
director of the Santiago de Chile Zoo, was the interviewee. It
turns out that the creature has been given the name TOY (no
reason given).

===================================


COMMUNIQUE FROM C.I.O CHILE

Sebastian Jimenez: "No conclusions in this regard could be made
beyond a reasonable doubt."

What is more, he added: "Some are going around saying its a
little mouse, a marsupial, monito, etc. "but that he could not
identify it beyond being a mammal, and that it needs further
research."

In regard to the statements made by veterinarian Arturo Mann, it
is 10% (sic) that he does not know what he is saying. Therfore,
it cannot be final.

Furhtermore, oither veterinarians do not agree on what the
[creature] might be.

The "EL MERCURIO" Newspaper dated October 25, 2002 says the
following in an article on the subject: veterinarian Pedro
Katan, of the University of Chile, could not determine the
species it belonged to."

In an interview for TVN (Television Nacional de Chile) on
October 25, 2002 with Eric Martinez (Research Director for CIO
CHILE) and Arturo Mann, Eric Martinez asked the following
question off camera:

"Arturo, if it was a marsupial, would it have to have a tail?"

Arturo's reply: "Yes."

Eric Martinez asked: "So what happened to TOY's tail?" [bold in
the original--SC]

Arturo's reply: "Well...um...maybe it fell off."

It is worth noting that it isn't Arturo Mann who says "it's
final", but the OVNIVISION news section.

The question is: why such a heading? Isn't it better to wait for
analyses, as OVNIVISION's own director said on the Megavision
news broadcast, that "it was necessary to wait for the DNA exams
before reaching a conclusion."

The only analysis performed by Mr. Arturo Mann was a visual one,
without a magnifying glass or any instrument that might have
aided him [in reaching a] better diagnosis.

How could he identify a given animal, if other veterinarians are
unable to?

[...]

No consideration appears to have been given to the diverging
opinions of other specialists, who also examined TOY...

[...]

Why was the opinion of the other specialists not published in
this article, which is contrary to that of Arturo Mann?

There are three specialists who examined TOY!!! [bold in the
original--SC]

Two of them have said they cannot identify it.

One has identified it 90% and doesn't know what the remaining
10% might be.

But the reply given by Mr. Arturo Mann is precisely employed to
define a case such as this one...Why?

Eric Martinez
Director of Research
C.I.O. Chile
Ph: (cell) 09-857-72110

====================

Translation (C) 2002. IHU
Special thanks to Guillermo Aguilera








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                       Re: Greer Vs. Spielberg - King

From: Tom King <tomking2030@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 15:30:42 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 21:51:33 -0500
Subject: Re: Greer Vs. Spielberg - King


 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 03:37:27 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Greer Vs. Spielberg

 >>From: Grant Cameron <presidentialufo@presidency.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 11:42:10 -0500
 >>Subject: Greer Vs. Spielberg

 >>DDT

 >>(Decoy, Distract and Trash)

 >>by

 >>Steven M. Greer M.D.
 >>Director, The Disclosure Project

 >>Copyright 2002

 ><snip>

 >Hello All,

 >Now that Dr. Greer has vented his spleen on Spielberg et al.,
 >allow me to share with you my own knowledge of the man behind
 >the rant. Nobody has to take my word for any of this BTW. It's
 >all at the UFO UpDates Archive. I urge you to check for
 >yourself - use the Google Search box at the bottom of the page
 >at:

 >http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/

 >It's educational and you'll gain insight into why many of us
 >have such strong feelings about Dr. Greer - none positive. I'll
 >provide a brief synopsis here, for the more lazy, who will never
 >actually visit The Archive and do all that reading.

 >Lengthy post ahead. (But so was Greer's.) Consider your self
 >duly warned. Grab a bag of popcorn before reading. ;)

 >A little real-life history.....

 >Shortly after my joining this List (early 1996) there was a post
 >to the List from several Scottish UFO researchers. They had
 >issued a plaintive transatlantic appeal to anyone who could help
 >them to recover a video of a flying triangle that a local Scot
 >had captured on tape. A videotape that - according to them - Dr.
 >Greer & Co. had 'absconded' with after a visit to Scotland.

 >Outrageous right? I thought so too at the time. I figured that
 >there had to be some kind of misunderstanding. Long story
 >short... I was wrong. There was no 'misunderstanding.' It turned
 >out that the outlandish rip-off the Scotsmen claimed had been
 >perpetrated by Dr. Greer was indeed - by Greer's own admission -
 >what had happened. Greer pleaded 'guilty with an explanation'
 >when he was first confronted.

 >I decided to snoop around a little bit just to satisfy my own
 >morbid curiosity about the whole bizarre affair. Man, I did I
 >get a snoot-full!

 >Not only did Greer admit to absconding with the Scottish UFO
 >video, but it turned out that the whole European junket was made
 >possible by Laurence Rockefeller. It was revealed that Greer had
 >flown to Europe with some of his staff in one of Rockefeller's
 >private Lear jets. Nobody's business under ordinary
 >circumstances. But these were no 'ordinary' circumstances.


Johnny,

I recall a similar experience in which Chris Miller
(www.ufofootage.com) had sent a videotape to Greer of Chris's
UFO footage. I had tried to warn Chris about the CSETI group,
but Miller is as hard-headed as I am and he learned 'the hard
way'. Within a couple of months of not hearing a word back from
Greer, Miller learned Greer was showing his footage during his
lectures. To make a long story short after threats of a lawsuit
Greer sent Miller his tape back. Chris Miller sent CSETI a tape
to be studied but it got the lecture circuit instead.

 >Given the awkward situation that had thrust Dr. Greer into the
 >public spotlight in the first place, all this business involving
 >Rockefeller, the Scottish video and the jaunt to Europe in one
 >of Rocky's Lear jets raised many legitimate questions and
 >elevated the whole situation to the level of a genuine
 >curiosity.

 >EBK himself and other long-time List members, will verify the
 >fact that Dr. Greer and one of his female assistants (whose name
 >I will not mention because she has since then passed on) both
 >became downright insulting, threatening and belligerent with
 >several researchers on this List.

 >List members who were only asking honest questions. Greer & Co.
 >became stoically defensive, offensive, rude and insulting.

 >His public response was outrageous. The people being attacked
 >were really good, reputable people like John Stepkowski and
 >others who were initially only trying to ascertain and sort out
 >the facts of the situation. Greer used smear tactics, liberally,
 >in order to draw attention away from himself. It didn't work.

 >I stepped on that cowpie myself. I telephoned Dr. Greer.

 >It was a revealing conversation to say the least. Full of
 >phrases like; "undisclosed secret sources," - one of the golf
 >clubs he reaches into the bag for regularly. See his post above
 >for a recent example, - and he made completely unsubstantiated
 >claims like; "98% (his statistics not mine) of all abductions
 >are being carried out by clandestine factions of the American
 >military and intelligence branches of our own government". The
 >whole telephone conversation ran on and on like that.

 >Bear in mind that I had called to ask about the GD UFO tape!
 >Period. He volunteered all the other unrelated information
 >without _any_ prompting from me. He spilled his guts like a
 >stereotype stoolie in an old gangster movie. It was
 >unbelievable. I thought to myself, as I listened to him tell me
 >about secret this and secret that, "wow, this guy would be one
 >tough cookie to crack if it wasn't for that leaky hole in his
 >face! <VBG>

 >Instead of enlightening me about the Scottish situation, the
 >conversation only served to make me wonder what kind of 'doctor'
 >would tell an abductee that, (quote) "Secret military sources
 >had informed him that they were responsible for almost _all_
 >reported abductions. How could he know that news like that
 >wouldn't flip me out, or make me pick up a gun and head for the
 >Pentagon to pick off 'suits' at random? Or worse yet, scare me
 >into paranoia.

 >Aside from the fact that that wasn't the reason I had called, or
 >that he didn't for a moment consider how such a revelation might
 >affect someone like me who was involved in the phenomena as a
 >'subject', what really struck me was how he spilled his guts to
 >me, a complete stranger, about things he himself was telling me
 >were "top secret"! As if I was an old confidant and not a 'first
 >time' caller. It set off more than one or two of my internal
 >alarms.

 >The upshot to the whole incident was; Greer left the List in a
 >huff, refusing to discuss the matter and the whole thing 'went
 >away', eventually.

 >Strike one.

 >But wait, there's more.

 >Next time we hear about Dr. Greer, it turns out that some people
 >were complaining and 'whistle-blowing' on CSETI. They complained
 >that Dr. Greer was charging people three hundred plus dollars a
 >year to join his organization, *CSETI. (*Another rip-off BTW.
 >This time the name of a well known and established organization.
 >'SETI') And it wouldn't be the last time that Dr. Greer's name
 >would come up in connection to some kind of rip-off. But I

 >Back to CSETI:

 >Here's a question we all asked at the time:

 >"What does one get for their $300+ dollars donation when they
 >shell it out to join CSETI?"

 >The remarkable answer turned out to be that; the paid members
 >got to roam around in cow pastures at night vectoring in UFOs by
 >waving flashlights at them. All this for only a few hundred
 >measly dollars.

 >Strike two!

 >Hang in there, it gets better.

 >The 'next time' Greer's name comes up it is in regard to certain
 >researchers who were threatening to sue Greer and his CSETI
 >because he had plagiarized their cases for his own disclosure
 >project report. Yes, you heard me correctly. He took the results
 >of the hard labor of other researchers, put his own 'brand' on
 >it, and attempted to publish it under the CSETI heading.
 >Unbelievable.

 >Strike three! (Now ordinarily anybody with an ounce of shame
 >would simply head for the dugout. But not our intrepid Dr.
 >Greer. He just stared down the pitcher and refused to give up
 >the batter's box.)

 >But let's trudge onward.

 >Next comes The Disclosure Project. Along with some of his own
 >witnesses, many of us were left in complete shock when he (at
 >the last minute) grafted on "space based defense weapons" and
 >"Free energy" to the UFO agenda. Some of his own people balked
 >at and resented that move on his part. His own people state that
 >they advised him against it, and that he added it to the agenda
 >despite their protestations.

 >Strike four? Yep, another swing and a miss. You just can't get
 >this guy to hit the showers already.

 >Then... the issue of the proper vetting of the disclosure
 >witnesses came up. As many 'good ones' as are on that witness
 >list, there are a few bona fide clinkers in the lot that could
 >possibly serve to kill the whole effort by calling into question
 >the quality of the other, less publicly known, witnesses.

 >Strike five! Enough already!

 >You get the picture? Does anybody else detect a pattern in Dr.
 >Greer's UFO career? Do you understand why I take the time of
 >life to write posts such as this one?

 >Make up your own mind about how much stock you want to put into
 >the ravings of a person like the 'good doctor'. As far as I'm
 >concerned Greer struck out after the first three swings. But
 >some of you may be more forgiving than I am.

 >For your information only. Do with it what you will.

 >'Rave on Dr. Greer!'


Strike 99;

I recall Greer taking credit for the 'Phoenix Lights'. He said
it happened because he was in town and they tend to follow him
around. I've skywatched thousands of times and with large groups
of people. I've never asked a single soul for money to hang out
with during a skywatch. I've asked that group for videotape
evidence this vectoring of UFOs works and I typically get hostile
remarks back but no video evidence. I don't see were Greer comes
off as a Doctor and constantly is begging the working class poor
people for their hard earned money. If you want to research UFOs
do it because you have a passion for it, not for other peoples
cash.

Next time Greer charges for a skywatch ask for a money back
guarantee if you don't see a five hundred-dollar UFO. Greer has
painted himself into a Ufological corner he can't get out of.


Tom King









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                      Re: Magonia Supplement 41 - Hale

From: Roy Hale <roy.hale@ntlworld.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 14:44:54 -0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 21:12:26 -0500
Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 41 - Hale


 >From: John Harney <magonia@harneyj.freeserve.co.uk>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 17:42:02 -0000
 >Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 41

<snip>

 >The point of my arguments about the ETH is that I don't claim
 >that it is impossible or even improbable; I merely say that the
 >available evidence on UFO reports gives me no reason to believe
 >that any of them are genuine sightings of ET spacecraft.

Hi,

Genuine? Do you feel that the UFO sightings of the World are
false?

And what is a genuine ET spacecraft, in your eyes?


Roy..








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   Oct > Oct 29

                     Budd Hopkins' UFO Seminar 11-09-02

From: The Intruders Foundation <Ifinfo1@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 09:02:23 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 09:02:23 -0500
Subject: Budd Hopkins' UFO Seminar 11-09-02

Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 10:06:34 -0500
Subject: Budd Hopkins' UFO Seminar 11-09-02


Intruders Foundation Seminar Series Announcement

Jim Mortellaro And Budd Hopkins Discuss An Important New
Abduction Case With Extensive Medical Evidence

Saturday, November 9, 2002

In March 2002, while driving to visit a friend in the hospital,
Mr. Mortellaro experienced a period of inexplicable missing
time. When he returned home hours later, feeling ill and
confused, he fainted in his kitchen. His wife, alarmed and
noticing blood on his face and clothing, called 911 and Jim was
rushed to the hospital. In the emergency room, attended by his
family physician of many years as well as by ER personnel and a
police officer-observer, the bleeding was discovered to be
issuing from his nasal cavity and his bladder. There were no
outward signs of the cause of these injuries.

The story Jim will present in our seminar is an extraordinary
account of a traumatic abduction that night, as well as the
story of his physicians' growing interest in the case because of
the puzzling nature of his internal injuries and their nearly
miraculous healing within a few days' time. As a result, a group
of internists, neurologists, psychologists and other medical
specialists have formed an independent task force to investigate
the UFO abduction phenomenon as reported by Mr. Mortellaro and
numerous other people from their combined patient pools.

This independent medical panel represents a first in the long
history of UFO abductions. Mr. Mortellaro, a highly
credentialed, articulate and entirely credible witness will
present his story together with Budd Hopkins, the principal
investigator in the case, along with audio and visual material
detailing what may well turn out to be a landmark event in the
history of abduction research.

REGISTRATION & INFORMATION

The seminar will be held on November 9th at the meeting rooms of
A.R.E., on the tenth floor of 150 W. 28th Street, New York, NY.
  The price of the seminar is $30 for non-members and $20 for
members of IF, seniors, and students.Reservations must be made
by telephone at 212-645-5278, and will be filled on a first
come, first served basis. Payment must be made in advance to
secure the reservation. Make checks payable to the Intruders
Foundation, P.O. Box 30233, New York, NY 10011. Only 50
reservations will be accepted.

On-street parking is generally available in the neighborhood.
The seminar will begin at 7:30 PM and end at 10:00 PM. Doors
open at 7:00 PM. There will be a one half-hour intermission,
during which light complimentary refreshments will be served.
  A book table will offer books, videotapes, and other material
for sale to those interested. For additional information, call
IF at 212-645-5278.

Hope to see you there!

----------

The Intruders Foundation Seminar Series is presented in the
interests of open-minded scientific learning and the free
exchange of research, ideas, and theories. IF makes no
specific claims or endorsements regarding any materials, views,
or subject matter presented by our guests.

----------

Want to know more about Budd Hopkins and his nonprofit
scientific research organization, as well as past and future IF
events? Please visit our website=E2=C7=A6

Intruders Foundation Website:
www.intrudersfoundation.org


----------

Upcoming Events: December 7, 2002

ANNUAL ART SALE FUNDRAISER AND HOLIDAY PARTY

(Check the IF website for additional information.)

----------






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                           PR-UFO Library For Sale

From: Greg Raymond <rradio@mindspring.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 09:49:52 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 09:09:57 -0500
Subject: PR-UFO Library For Sale


PRESS RELEASE  OCTOBER 28,2002

BY order of The UFO Research Library Board Of Directors - all
UFO books and materials wil be liquidated by December 1, 2002

Please see website for bidding information

http://www.recycledradio.com/booksell.htm


Thank-you and please forward this information to others.

Greg Raymond, Antiquarian
Greg Raymond, KA1INX
rradio@mindspring.com
603-942-8709
Visit us today!
http://www.recycledradio.com
Serving the Radio Community







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                              Re: APRO? - Vike

From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 07:17:07 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 09:12:32 -0500
Subject: Re: APRO? - Vike


 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 10:27:02 EST
 >Subject: Re: APRO?

 >>From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 10:09:13 -0700
 >>Subject: Re: APRO?

 >>>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 11:00:59 EDT
 >>>Subject: Re: APRO?

 ><snip>

 >>I was even on their mailing list at
 >>one time, which I believe was last year. Their website was at
 >>Homestead.com.

 >Brian:

 >Perhaps somebody else on the List could provide details but I
 >believe that the name, 'APRO', was being used recently but the
 >list was not really affiliated with the Arial Phenomenon
 >Research Organization founded by the Lorenzens.



Hi Bob

Thank you Bob and List for your help, the question I asked about
APRO has been answered. I talked with a nice gal who filled me
in, and gave me the answer. You're right also Bob.

Thanks List for your welcomed help.


Take care


Brian








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                              Re: APRO? - Vike

From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 07:24:11 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 09:55:47 -0500
Subject: Re: APRO? - Vike


 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >To: <UFOupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 14:24:24 -0600
 >Subject: Re: APRO?

 >>From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 10:09:13 -0700
 >>Subject: Re: APRO?

 >>>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 11:00:59 EDT
 >>>Subject: Re: APRO?

 >>>>From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net>
 >>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>>Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 22:23:53 -0700
 >>>>Subject: APRO?

<snip>

 >Brian,

 >You should not be thanking someone who doesn't know what he's
 >talking about.

<snip>

Hi Jerry

I am the type of fellow who thanks everyone who pitches in and
helps out in any way, even if its only to be a comment.

I also appreciate everyone's input on a subject. The question I
asked, originally, was been answered by a nice lady who I was
trying to find.

So that is it, case closed on this one for me.

Thank you for your input.

Brian







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              Re: SETI Launches New Detection Scale - Hamilton

From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 15:38:37 UT
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 09:59:05 -0500
Subject: Re: SETI Launches New Detection Scale - Hamilton


 >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 18:44:34 -0700
 >Subject: Re: SETI Launches New Detection Scale

 >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 12:50:21 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: SETI Launches New Detection Scale

 >>>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 18:13:48 -0700
 >>>Subject: Re: SETI Launches New Detection Scale -

 >>>>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
 >>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>>Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 15:07:49 UT
 >>>>Subject: Re: SETI Launches New Detection Scale

 >>>>Perhaps we need to have some sort of rating scale similar to
 >>>>this for UFO sightings.

 >>>That seems like a useful idea to me, provided the UFO scale were
 >>>easily convertible into a probability, p.

 >>>p = 1 would mean it was/is definitely a "genuine" UFO (Photos,
 >>>multiple witnesses & other evidence all agree, a large piece of
 >>>the UFO and/or alien(s) would be available somewhere for
 >>>qualified scientists to examine and sample, and report on). Of
 >>>course, no case as yet available to us reaches this level of
 >>>certainty.

<snip>


Jim,

Interesting that a book on the subject of ET life indicates a p
= 1. Amir D. Aczel asserts in Probability 1 that our existence
as an intelligent, evolved species mathematically guarantees the
outer-space existence of at least one other equally intelligent
civilization. Author of Fermat's Last Theorem, Dr. Aczel
approaches the ubiquitous question of ETI with a firm grasp on
the concepts of mathematical probability.

Equally intelligent, of course, is not a guarantee of one that
is a spacefaring civilization.

Suppose now that a panel does assign a very high p value (p >.5
or better) and we have a cumulative probability over time that
gives us strong indication that some UFOs are TRUFOs. We still
do not have a strong probability for their origin point.

Just for fun, what would you consider factors in a UFO event
that would point strongly to an extraterrestrial origin? For
instance, UFOs tracked entering the earth's atmosphere or in the
vicinity of the moon might be a strong indication that the UFO
is a spacecraft because it has been witnessed or recorded
operating in the space environment.     Since there seem to be
competing hypothesis for the origin of TRUFOs, how could we
settle on the ETH as a strong hypotheis?

-Bill







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                              Re: APRO? - Young

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 12:12:32 EST
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 10:00:34 -0500
Subject: Re: APRO? - Young


 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >To: <UFOupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 14:24:24 -0600
 >Subject: Re: APRO?

 >>From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 10:09:13 -0700
 >>Subject: Re: APRO?

 >>>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 11:00:59 EDT
 >>>Subject: Re: APRO?

 >>>From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net>
 >>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>>Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 22:23:53 -0700
 >>>>Subject: APRO?

 >>>>Can someone tell me what happened to Aerial Phenomena Research
 >>>>Organization - APRO ? I can't find them anywhere. If someone can
 >>>>point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it.

 >>>APRO folded years ago after the deaths of its founders, Jim and
 >>>Coral Lorenzen. Much of the files are now at the Center for UFO
 >>>Studies.

 >You should not be thanking someone who doesn't know what he's
 >talking about.

Good Morning Jerry:

I am very sorry, Your Grace. "Much" should have been "Some".

I forgot that the Boy Bishop always has the final word on
minutia, such as the number of ETs on the head of a pin or the
exact number of pages of old saucer reports in a church attic.

Since I don't take The Communion I should have known better than
to offer any helpful advice.


Clear skies,

Bob Young







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                          Secrecy News -- 10/28/02

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 14:13:53 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 10:09:25 -0500
Subject: Secrecy News -- 10/28/02


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2002, Issue No. 107
October 28, 2002


**      CIA ADDRESSES WORLDWIDE THREAT ISSUES
**      DOD EXAMINES "PREEMPTIVE" INTELLIGENCE OPERATIONS
**      THOMAS B. ROSS, 73
**      PSYCHOLOGICAL EFFECTS OF SECRECY


CIA ADDRESSES WORLDWIDE THREAT ISSUES

The Central Intelligence Agency offered some remarkably
straightforward answers to some rather blunt questions from the
Senate Intelligence Committee earlier this year.

What is the most likely delivery system of weapons of mass
destruction to be used by terrorists or states against the U.S.?
  How stable is the Jordanian regime of King Abdullah?  In the
event of a nuclear war between India and Pakistan, which nation
would likely prevail?  Does the Intelligence Community believe
that the resumption of U.S. trade with Cuba could hasten
economic and political reform in Cuba?

CIA responses to these and many other pointed questions, plus
Agency comments on intelligence-related "leaks" and the hazards
of aggregate budget disclosure, were appended to the hearing
record from the February 6, 2002, Senate hearing on "The
Worldwide Threat in 2002," which was published two weeks ago
without fanfare or notice.

The Committee questions and CIA answers may be found here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2002_hr/020602cia.html

Other agency responses to many of the same questions for the
record will be posted later in the week.


DOD EXAMINES "PREEMPTIVE" INTELLIGENCE OPERATIONS

One way to invigorate U.S. intelligence would be to "Develop an
entirely new capability to proactively, preemptively evoke
responses from adversary/terrorist groups," according to the
Defense Science Board, a Pentagon advisory group.

Such an approach would "improve [intelligence] information
collection by stimulating reactions" from the target.

One hundred "highly specialized people with unique technical and
intelligence skills such as information operations, PSYOP,
network attack, covert activities, SIGINT, HUMINT, SOF,
influence warfare/deception operations" could constitute a new,
elite "Proactive Preemptive Operations Group (P2OG)," reporting
to the National Security Council with an annual budget of $100
million.

The proposal is the latest sign of a new assertiveness by the
Defense Department in intelligence matters, and an indication
that the cutting edge of intelligence reform is not to be found
in Congress but behind closed doors in the Pentagon.

The Defense Science Board recommended creation of the preemptive
operations group in its "DSB Summer Study on Special Operations
and Joint Forces in Support of Countering Terrorism."

The findings and recommendations of the DSB Summer Study were
set forth in an August 16, 2002, PowerPoint briefing authored by
Ashton Carter. The first thirty pages of the unclassified 78
page PointPoint presentation are posted here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/dod/dsbbrief.ppt

The DSB briefing was first reported by Dan Dupont in Inside the
Pentagon on September 26.  It was also discussed by William M.
Arkin in the Los Angeles Times on October 27.


THOMAS B. ROSS, 73

Writer Thomas B. Ross, who died last week, was practically the
creator, along with his co-author David Wise, of investigative
reporting on U.S. intelligence.

The three books that Ross and Wise wrote together, especially
the 1964 work entitled "The Invisible Government," were the kind
of thing that had not been seen before and they prompted some
alarm in official circles.

Director of Central Intelligence John A. McCone felt the need to
warn President Johnson in 1964 that "inquisitive writers such as
Ross and Wise" were sniffing around certain U.S. intelligence
activities "and I thought the consequences would be very
serious."  See Document 49 on this page of a recent volume of
Foreign Relations of the United States:

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/frus/johnsonlb/x/9056.htm

"I think it is reasonable to say, in retrospect, that we were
among the first to recognize and point out the dangers to
American democracy of official lies told to protect covert
operations," Wise wrote in his own 1973 book "The Politics of
Lying."

A New York Times obituary of Thomas B. Ross is posted here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/28/obituaries/28ROSS.html

David Wise's new book, published this month to favorable
reviews, is "Spy: How the FBI's Robert Hanssen Betrayed America"
(Random House, 2002).


PSYCHOLOGICAL EFFECTS OF SECRECY

With unusual self-awareness, a CIA author noted in a newly
declassified study that the Agency's secrecy system for handling
highly classified intelligence information could have unintended
psychological effects.

The March 1977 study, entitled "Critique of the Codeword
Compartment in the CIA," was formally declassified (with
redactions) and accessioned at the National Archives on October
21.  The 67 page document was obtained by Jeffrey Richelson of
the National Security Archive, who kindly shared a copy.

"We know that secrecy by its very nature may affect the
personality of its practioners," the unnamed author wrote.

"This is true of all forms of secrecy from the primitive secret
society to the codeword compartment.  The latter is a heightened
form of secrecy that resembles the former in many ways.  It has
the aura of a secret society.  It has its initiation, its oaths,
its esoteric phrases, its sequestered areas, and its secrets
within secrets.  And in place of passwords and hand signs, there
are letter designations on badges.  There are in-groups and out-
groups.  No wonder, then, if the codeword compartment has
unintended psychological effects."

Among other effects identified, cleared personnel tend to assign
undue accuracy and weight to highly classified information, and
to equate access levels with professional status.

"On balance, the psychological side effects of the codeword
compartment seem to diminish rather than enhance security," the
author concludes.

_______________________________________________

Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood@fas.org
voice:  (202) 454-4691







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                             Re: APRO? - Speiser

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 14:16:30 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 10:12:26 -0500
Subject: Re: APRO? - Speiser


 >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 22:14:33 EST
 >Subject: Re: APRO?

 >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 11:00:59 EDT
 >>Subject: Re: APRO?

 >>>From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 22:23:53 -0700
 >>>Subject: APRO?

 >>>Can someone tell me what happened to Aerial Phenomena Research
 >>>Organization - APRO ? I can't find them anywhere. If someone can
 >>>point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it.

<snip>

 >Last I heard the 17 filing cab full of files were in literally
 >in storage somewhere around Phoenix. These files have apparently
 >been exposed to the extremes of heat (storage units have been
 >known to get as high as 120 plus degrees in the summer unless
 >air conditioned) and then cooling down to the Phoenix winter
 >temps.

 >I am not an expert on paper and so forth, but would imagine that
 >alone would contribute to decay and desintragration.


Has anyone ever looked into the legalities behind ICUFOR's
possession of these files? Do they have the legal right to hold
them hostage like this? Wouldn't Coral and Jim have made some
provisions for the files being made available to researchers?

If anyone wants to discuss this with me off-List, I'm all ears.
I do live in the Phoenix area, and I have been to the ICUFOR
office in the past... and oy, do I know a good lawyer...


==JJS==








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             Re: Review: UFOs And The National Security State -

From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 22:38:59 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 10:13:46 -0500
Subject: Re: Review: UFOs And The National Security State -


 >From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 18:31:52 -0800 (PST)
 >Subject: Review: UFOs And The National Security State

 >UFOs And The National Security State
 >Richard Dolan

 >Reviewed by Mac Tonnies

 >Historian Richard Dolan's "UFOs and the National Security State"
 >is an unsparing chronological narrative that charts the UFO
 >enigma (and its disturbing relationship with the US military-
 >industrial complex) from the beginning of the modern phenomenon
 >to 1973.

 >Dolan's book is as intelligent and sober as it is mind-boggling,
 >written with a welcome sense of irony and rooted in documented
 >fact. Dolan revealingly juxtaposes the UFO phenomenon with its
 >Cold War context, shedding light on the military's early search
 >for answers, NICAP's tireless efforts to bring the UFO issue to
 >Congressional attention, the duplicitous tactics of Project Blue
 >Book and the Condon Report, and much more.
 >"UFOs and the National Security State" is a unparalleled work by
 >an author not afraid to challenge "official history"--even if it
 >means exposing an enigma that defies conventional explanation. I
 >predict that Dolan's study will become a genuine classic; he's
 >raised the bar for scholars of the UFO coverup, and offers a
 >remarkably solid argument to the intellectually fashionable
 >"debunking" establishment.

 >This book redefines the 20th century landscape; I eagerly await
 >the second installment in Dolan's peerless overview.

For a rather different view of this book, check out John
Harney's review in Magonia Supplement:

http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/00/ms41.htm

--
John Rimmer
Magonia Magazine
www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/00/newmag.htm








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             Re: Review: UFOs And The National Security State -

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 18:54:08 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 10:15:36 -0500
Subject: Re: Review: UFOs And The National Security State -


 >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 15:03:34 +0000
 >Subject: Re: Review: UFOs And The National Security State

<snip>

 >>This book redefines the 20th century landscape; I eagerly await
 >>the second installment in Dolan's peerless overview.

 >As a partial antidote to this review, I suggest you read my
 >review of Dolan's book in International UFO Reporter, Spring
 >2001.

 >Although his UFO history is reasonably accurate, I would
 >seriously dispute the "scholarly" label when it comes to his
 >conspiratorial view of Government secrecy.

I'd love to read it.

Dolan's take is reasonably conspiratory at times, but with good
reason, in my view. I would be very interested in learning of a
history of the CIA/FBI/NSA that isn't "conspiratory"!

Thanks for your suggestion.

=====
Mac Tonnies (macbot@yahoo.com)

Transcelestial Ontology and Postmillennial Studies
http://mactonnies.com







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                   Space Trip Changed My Life - Astronaut

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 10:21:00 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 10:21:00 -0500
Subject: Space Trip Changed My Life - Astronaut

http://www.gulf-news.com/Articles/news.asp?ArticleID=66857

Dubai: Monday, October 28, 2002

Space Trip Changed My Life - Astronaut
Dubai - By Sunita Menon - 28-10-2002

A Nasa astronaut said yesterday that his experience in outer
space has changed his whole perspective towards life.

"I am a different person now," said astronaut Dr. Jerry Linenger
whose challenging five month journey into space created history.
"When you are out there looking at the Earth below, you see the
big picture that changes your whole outlook.

It's kind of strange. You have the big view of the world, but
you are alone, you are cut off. You start to realise a lot about
yourself and human nature, and ultimately it changes your whole
perspective towards life."

Isolated, cramped and living in stark darkness for five months
in space, speaking only Russian, fighting the worst fire ever to
occur in space, tumbling out of control inside a power-dead
space station in utter blackness with oxygen running low. All
this was in a day's work for Linenger.

He was the first American ever to undock from a space station in
a Russian Soyuz capsule and the first American to do a spacewalk
in a Russian spacesuit.

At mission completion, Dr Linenger held the endurance record for
the longest time in space for an American male. He told
journalists in Dubai, "What was unique in my space experience
was living on my own with two Russians for five months.

"During that time we faced numerous life-threatening events,
including repeated failure of critical life-support systems, a
near-collision that sent the space station tumbling
uncontrollably through space."

In spite of these challenges, Dr Linenger and his two Russian
crewmates accomplished all mission goals - shuttle dockings,
spacewalk, Soyuz flyaround and all the U.S. science experiments.

On completing the mission, he logged 50 million miles - the
equivalent of over 110 round trips to the moon - travelling at
an average speed of 18,000 miles per hour. "Back on earth I
count my blessings every day."

About the value of teamwork and determination, Dr Linenger said:
"One thing that I really learnt was that everybody talks about
teamwork, teamwork and teamwork. But I found that if you are not
individually competent and if you don't prepare yourself well,
you are worthless to other people."

In a lighter vein, when asked whether the controversy over UFO's
holds any truth, Dr. Linenger said: "I have been asked that
question so many times. In five months in space, I have seen
unidentified flying objects for sure.

"Sometimes I looked out of the window and I could see a metallic
thing like a spoon flying methodically. The biggest problem in
space is that it is very hard to judge distance. It could have
been a spoon or a space ship thousands of miles away.

"Let me tell you one thing, I have never heard someone knock at
the door and say - Hey Jerry let me in!"

Dr. Linenger was in Dubai to speak at the BurJuman Retail
Conference at the Emirates Towers Hotel.








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                     Re: Magonia Supplement 41 - Speiser

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 21:44:23 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 10:23:03 -0500
Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 41 - Speiser


 >From: John Harney <magonia@harneyj.freeserve.co.uk>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 17:42:02 -0000
 >Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 41

 >>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 11:08:32 -0700
 >>Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 41

 >>>From: John Harney <magonia@harneyj.freeserve.co.uk>
 >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 21:05:22 +0100
 >>>Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 41

 >>Also, it seems to me the lack of satellite photos or detection
 >>upon entry is a rather pedestrian argument in light of advances
 >>being made in theoretical physics, quantum mechanics, etc. Is
 >>it not feasible that ET vehicles could be entering our airspace
 >>through some kind of wormhole or by using other dimensions for
 >>travel? Or has this somehow been ruled out by the hallowed halls
 >>of science?

 >Of course it's not ruled out, at least not by a number of
 >eminent physicists who are seriously considering such
 >possibilities. However, this work appears to purely theoretical
 >at present, so until someone devises a method which would detect
 >ET spacecraft entering our airspace through wormholes or other
 >dimensions, such ideas remain purely speculative.

 >The point of my arguments about the ETH is that I don't claim
 >that it is impossible or even improbable; I merely say that the
 >available evidence on UFO reports gives me no reason to believe
 >that any of them are genuine sightings of ET spacecraft.


First, please forgive the challenging tenor of my posts. I just
like to know where people stand.

Second, can I assume then that you do not find the idea
"ridiculous" or worthy of similar scorn, just that you are not
convinced by the evidence? Because that is actually my stance as
well.

However, I am _intrigued_ by the evidence, as I think all
scientists should be.

Bottom line: Do you think Ufology, well practiced, is a worthy
pursuit?


==JJS==









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                       Re: Greer Vs. Spielberg - Gates

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 02:00:09 EST
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 10:34:05 -0500
Subject: Re: Greer Vs. Spielberg - Gates


 >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: Greer Vs. Spielberg
 >Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 19:25:18 -0400

 >>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 06:09:58 -0700
 >>Subject: Re: Greer Vs. Spielberg

 >>>From: Royce J. Myers III - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 16:41:17 -0700
 >>>Subject: Re: Greer Vs. Spielberg

 ><snip>

 >>Hello Royce:

 >>A simple question for all of us.

 >>Is Dr. Greer still licensed to practice medicine?

 >>If so, in which State?

 >If memory serves, he had a practice in North Carolina, but has since
 >moved to Virginia. I don't know if he is currently using his medical
 >skills.


Hi Steve,

Greer does check out both in NC and VA and is currently
licensed.

Try this link:

http://www.ncmedboard.org/database/viewLicense.asp?credIdnt=797133

This shows that he is inactive by request in NC.

When you check with the Virginia government that does licensing, you
find

License Number 0101057732
Occupation MEDICINE & SURGERY
Name STEVEN MACON GREER
Address of Record 7501 Batesville Road
Afton, VA 22920
Initial License 06/23/1998
Expire Date 06/30/2004
License Status Current Active
Subject to a Proceeding * No
* "No" not having been the subject of a proceeding in 15 years.

One could say that Greers background checks out far better then
the backgrounds of some of the witnesses.... :)


Cheers,

Robert








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                       Re: Greer Vs. Spielberg - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 22:47:05 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 10:31:49 -0500
Subject: Re: Greer Vs. Spielberg - Hatch


 >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: Greer Vs. Spielberg
 >Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 19:25:18 -0400

 >>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 06:09:58 -0700
 >>Subject: Re: Greer Vs. Spielberg

 >>>From: Royce J. Myers III - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 16:41:17 -0700
 >>>Subject: Re: Greer Vs. Spielberg

 ><snip>

 >>Hello Royce:

 >>A simple question for all of us.

 >>Is Dr. Greer still licensed to practice medicine?

 >>If so, in which State?

 >If memory serves, he had a practice in North Carolina, but has since
 >moved to Virginia. I don't know if he is currently using his medical
 >skills.



Hello Bill, Steven:

Thanks for the info. I don't know what an E.R. MD is, I presume
its somebody licensed to practice Medicine.


Best

- Larry






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                             Re: APRO? - Speiser

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 02:29:30 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 10:39:30 -0500
Subject: Re: APRO? - Speiser


 >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 22:14:33 EST
 >Subject: Re: APRO?

 >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 11:00:59 EDT
 >>Subject: Re: APRO?

 >>>From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 22:23:53 -0700
 >>>Subject: APRO?

 >>>Can someone tell me what happened to Aerial Phenomena Research
 >>>Organization - APRO ? I can't find them anywhere. If someone can
 >>>point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it.

 >>APRO folded years ago after the deaths of its founders, Jim and
 >>Coral Lorenzen. Much of the files are now at the Center for UFO
 >>Studies.

 >Last I heard the 17 filing cab full of files were in literally
 >in storage somewhere around Phoenix. These files have apparently
 >been exposed to the extremes of heat (storage units have been
 >known to get as high as 120 plus degrees in the summer unless
 >air conditioned) and then cooling down to the Phoenix winter
 >temps.

 >I am not an expert on paper and so forth, but would imagine that
 >alone would contribute to decay and desintragration.


More Info:

From: Sheldon Wernikoff (Sheldon.Wernikoff@p0.f31.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG)
Newsgroups: alt.paranet.ufo
Date: 1994-02-06 21:00:00 PST
Subject: APRO


Quoting Jim Speiser to Charles Mcgrew... <02-04-94 11:41>

JS>APRO's files have become the target of a great controversy. They are
JS>located right here in Scottsdale, Arizona, and through a complicated
JS>set of circumstances, have fallen into the hands of two of the most
JS>dubious characters in ufology, Brian Meyers and Tina Choate, who run
JS>the International Center for UFO Research.

Additionally Jim, the APRO files microfilmed records, now belong
to Bill English. They were obtained through the former APRO
librarian. Bill has stated that he's attempting to make copies
of the microfilm for both MUFON and CUFOS, but to the best of my
knowledge, neither organization has received their copies. Bill
has stated that the photo lab (located in New Mexico) that he's
been utilizing is having difficulties with the duplicating
process.  --Sheldon


  ... All power corrupts, but we need electricity.
  ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
  - JetMail v1.14a3 - Unregistered QWK Mail Door for Spitfire








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                           Re: APRO - UFO UpDates

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 10:43:55 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 10:43:55 -0500
Subject: Re: APRO - UFO UpDates


Date: 12-02-93 (11:05)  Number: 34487 of 34673 (Refer# NONE)
   To: SHELDON WERNIKOFF
From: BILL ENGLISH
Subj: APRO Microfilm
Read: NO    Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE (Echo)
Conf: F-UFO (1356)   Read Type: READING ALL (A) (+)

SW>   Quoting Bill English to Charlie Wilson... <11-27-93SW> 20:19>

SW> BE> Bill English (Yeah, I know, MUFON has a file on me)

SW> Speaking of files Bill... could you please tell me how
SW> one would go about obtaining some of the APRO file
SW> cases you've got on microfilm? BTW, how did you
SW> ever manage to swing _that_ deal? I know CUFOS has
SW> been trying to get their hands on that for years!

SW> Are these files available via your BBS?   Thanks,
SW> --Sheldon

We have unfortunately run into a snag with the APRO files on the
micro-films. We have attempted on several different occassions
to get copies of the films so that we could send them to both
CUFOS and MUFON in accordance with an agreement we have with
both organizations. Not only is the process expensive, but it
seems that everytime we have tried the company that is located
in Las Cruces had screwed up the job. Lucky they haven't screwed
up the original films. Right now we are waiting to see just
exactly what happens with the next try. We have been assured
that the company is waiting for a new lens and other equipment,
and as soon as it comes in they will make another stab at it.
One problem is that I refuse to leave the films with the company
and require that I be there during the process to insure the
films safety. Unfortunately with my health problems and the
problems of saving UFINET, I have not been able to find the time
to get back up there.

Currently the files that are on the films are not available on
the system, but hopefully I will have all the problems solved
within the near future and everyone will be happy again.

Bill.

--- RemoteAccess 0.03+
  * Origin: Gourmet Delight...*HST*... (1:363/29)

<<<>>>







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            Re: Chile: Researchers Battle Over Vet's Conclusions

From: Bill Stockstill <size14d@bigfoot.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 08:14:06 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 11:43:00 -0500
Subject: Re: Chile: Researchers Battle Over Vet's Conclusions


 >From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 10:52:07 -0500
 >Subject: Chile: Researchers Battle Over Vet's Conclusions

 >The following is a communique recieved from the CHILE C.I.O.
 >research group in regard to the conclusions reached by
 >veterinarian Arturo Mann on the alleged "monito de monte"
 >corpse. The communique was issued by Eric Martinez on October
 >26, 2002 and quotes  from a zoology broadcast on Chile's
 >Megavision TV station. Sebastian Jimenez, a veterinarian and
 >director of the Santiago de Chile Zoo, was the interviewee. It
 >turns out that the creature has been given the name TOY (no
 >reason given).

 >===================================

 >COMMUNIQUE FROM C.I.O CHILE

 >Sebastian Jimenez: "No conclusions in this regard could be made
 >beyond a reasonable doubt."

 >What is more, he added: "Some are going around saying its a
 >little mouse, a marsupial, monito, etc. "but that he could not
 >identify it beyond being a mammal, and that it needs further
 >research."

 >In regard to the statements made by veterinarian Arturo Mann, it
 >is 10% (sic) that he does not know what he is saying. Therfore,
 >it cannot be final.

 >Furhtermore, oither veterinarians do not agree on what the
 >[creature] might be.

 >The "EL MERCURIO" Newspaper dated October 25, 2002 says the
 >following in an article on the subject: veterinarian Pedro
 >Katan, of the University of Chile, could not determine the
 >species it belonged to."

 >In an interview for TVN (Television Nacional de Chile) on
 >October 25, 2002 with Eric Martinez (Research Director for CIO
 >CHILE) and Arturo Mann, Eric Martinez asked the following
 >question off camera:

 >"Arturo, if it was a marsupial, would it have to have a tail?"

 >Arturo's reply: "Yes."

 >Eric Martinez asked: "So what happened to TOY's tail?" [bold in
 >the original--SC]

 >Arturo's reply: "Well...um...maybe it fell off."

 >It is worth noting that it isn't Arturo Mann who says "it's
 >final", but the OVNIVISION news section.

 >The question is: why such a heading? Isn't it better to wait for
 >analyses, as OVNIVISION's own director said on the Megavision
 >news broadcast, that "it was necessary to wait for the DNA exams
 >before reaching a conclusion."

 >The only analysis performed by Mr. Arturo Mann was a visual one,
 >without a magnifying glass or any instrument that might have
 >aided him [in reaching a] better diagnosis.

 >How could he identify a given animal, if other veterinarians are
 >unable to?

 >[...]

 >No consideration appears to have been given to the diverging
 >opinions of other specialists, who also examined TOY...

 >[...]

 >Why was the opinion of the other specialists not published in
 >this article, which is contrary to that of Arturo Mann?

 >There are three specialists who examined TOY!!! [bold in the
 >original--SC]

 >Two of them have said they cannot identify it.

 >One has identified it 90% and doesn't know what the remaining
 >10% might be.

 >But the reply given by Mr. Arturo Mann is precisely employed to
 >define a case such as this one..... Why?

 >Eric Martinez
 >Director of Research
 >C.I.O. Chile
 >Ph: (cell) 09-857-72110


For those interested in what a monito de monte looks like:

http://www.cape1.net/chile/monito_del_monte.htm

How anyone could describe this little guy as humanoid is beyond
me. Is there a picture of this thing anywhere yet Scott? BTW, I
always enjoy your work, Scott.

Bill Stockstill






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                    Mount Roche de Boule In Hazelton, BC

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <yogibear@bulkley.net>
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 07:16:07 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 16:42:55 -0500
Subject: Mount Roche de Boule In Hazelton, BC


Hi List

Received this report by way of email this morning. I have
already written back to the witness to see if I can contact him,
and the other two witnesses (by way of telephone) to discuss
with each of them  what it was they saw. If I receive a date for
this sighting, could help me place more light on a major report
I received and reported on back aways.

I will keep you posted on any updates which may come from this
report.

Mount Roche de Boule in Hazelton

Date: July 2002 (last week in July)
Time: 10:50 p.m.

It might be nothing, but during the last week of July 2002,
myself and 2 others seen a bright almost white, well lit object
in the sky going passed Mount Roche de Boule in Hazelton. What
was weird about it, was that the object was bright and made no
sound. It was approximately 10:50 in the evening, and the cloud
ceiling was below the peak of the mountain that evening.

It was clearly seen going in a straight line thru the clouds,
almost like it was heading towards the Smithers area. I thought
it was weird because the clouds were so low that if it were a
small plane you would see the red or green? flashing lights on
the tail of the plane and hear the  drone of a motor. Also what
struck me was the speed in which the object was traveling, kinda
fast for a small plane, and the cloud ceiling was also low. We'd
seen it go almost under and thru the clouds and come out again,
so the cloud ceiling could not have been that high, maybe 3000
feet?

Personal information deleted by HBCC UFO

Take care

Brian

HBCC UFO Research
&
Editor: Canadian Communicator








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                           Re: APRO? - LeChevalier

From: Remy LeChevalier <remy.lechevalier@cp.finances.gouv.fr>
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 16:31:48 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 16:44:59 -0500
Subject: Re: APRO? - LeChevalier


Hello,


 >From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 07:24:11 -0800
 >Subject: Re: APRO?

 >So that is it, case closed on this one for me.

Er... I know it's a long shot but..... Does all of this mean
there's no stock of back issues of the APRO bulletin available
anywhere ?


Best regards

RL








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                             Re: APRO? - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 10:43:03 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 16:48:13 -0500
Subject: Re: APRO? - Kaeser


 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 12:12:32 EST
 >Subject: Re: APRO?

 >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >>To: <UFOupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 14:24:24 -0600
 >>Subject: Re: APRO?

 >>>From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 10:09:13 -0700
 >>>Subject: Re: APRO?

 >>>>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>>Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 11:00:59 EDT
 >>>>Subject: Re: APRO?

 >>>>From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net>
 >>>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>>>Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 22:23:53 -0700
 >>>>>Subject: APRO?

 >>>>>Can someone tell me what happened to Aerial Phenomena Research
 >>>>>Organization - APRO ? I can't find them anywhere. If someone can
 >>>>>point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it.

 >>>>APRO folded years ago after the deaths of its founders, Jim and
 >>>>Coral Lorenzen. Much of the files are now at the Center for UFO
 >>>>Studies.

 >>You should not be thanking someone who doesn't know what he's
 >>talking about.

 >Good Morning Jerry:

 >I am very sorry, Your Grace. "Much" should have been "Some".

 >I forgot that the Boy Bishop always has the final word on
 >minutia, such as the number of ETs on the head of a pin or the
 >exact number of pages of old saucer reports in a church attic.

 >Since I don't take The Communion I should have known better than
 >to offer any helpful advice.

Bob-

I think the point is that the information you gave out was
incomplete......

Some of APRO's information is available, but a great deal is
not.

Your statement indicated that APRO's files had been given to
CUFOS, which is clearly not the case.

As noted, there are efforts underway to try and obtain these
files, but that is going on behind the scenes and has been
underway for several years. A portion of the files have been
obtained on microfilm, but that merely scratches the surface.

Steve







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                       Re: Greer Vs. Spielberg - Hatch

From: Bill Stockstill <size14d@bigfoot.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 10:55:23 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 16:50:05 -0500
Subject: Re: Greer Vs. Spielberg - Hatch


 >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 22:47:05 -0800
 >Subject: Re: Greer Vs. Spielberg

 >>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Subject: Re: Greer Vs. Spielberg
 >>Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 19:25:18 -0400

 >>>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 06:09:58 -0700
 >>>Subject: Re: Greer Vs. Spielberg

 >>>>From: Royce J. Myers III - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >>>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>>Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 16:41:17 -0700
 >>>>Subject: Re: Greer Vs. Spielberg

 >><snip>

 >>>Hello Royce:

 >>>A simple question for all of us.

 >>>Is Dr. Greer still licensed to practice medicine?

 >>>If so, in which State?

 >>If memory serves, he had a practice in North Carolina, but has since
 >>moved to Virginia. I don't know if he is currently using his medical
 >>skills.

 >Hello Bill, Steven:

 >Thanks for the info. I don't know what an E.R. MD is, I presume
 >its somebody licensed to practice Medicine.


Sorry Larry, I am in the business so I forget that everyone
isn't into the lingo. Emergency Room (E.R.) Physician. I don't
know if he is Board Certified or Eligible (he meets the criteria
but hasn't done his Board tests).

Hope this clears it up,


Bill







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             Re: Review: UFOs And The National Security State -

From: John Rimmer <j.rimmer@merseymail.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 16:37:50 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 16:51:48 -0500
Subject: Re: Review: UFOs And The National Security State -


Sorry, a slight gremlin crept into my previous posting. the url
for John Harney's review is:

http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/00/ms40.htm


--
John Rimmer
<j.rimmer@merseymail.com>








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             Re: Review: UFOs And The National Security State -

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 11:05:14 -0600
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 16:54:17 -0500
Subject: Re: Review: UFOs And The National Security State -


 >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 22:38:59 +0000
 >Subject: Re: Review: UFOs And The National Security State


 >>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 18:31:52 -0800 (PST)
 >>Subject: Review: UFOs And The National Security State

 >>This book redefines the 20th century landscape; I eagerly await
 >>the second installment in Dolan's peerless overview.

 >For a rather different view of this book, check out John
 >Harney's review in Magonia Supplement:

 >http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/00/ms40.htm

Or Richard Hall's in International UFO Reporter (IUR), Spring
2001, pp. 13-16.

This is a book that ought to be read with a large saltshaker at
hand.


Jerry Clark








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                             Re: APRO - Aldrich

From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 12:0:40 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 16:57:49 -0500
Subject: Re: APRO - Aldrich


 >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers -
 >Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 10:43:55 -0500
 >Subject: Re: APRO


 >Date: 12-02-93 (11:05) Number: 34487 of 34673 (Refer# NONE)
 >To: SHELDON WERNIKOFF
 >From: BILL ENGLISH
 >Subj: APRO Microfilm
 >Read: NO Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE (Echo)
 >Conf: F-UFO (1356) Read Type: READING ALL (A) (+)

 >SW> Quoting Bill English to Charlie Wilson... <11-27-93SW>20:19>

 >SW>BE>Bill English (Yeah, I know, MUFON has a file on me)

 >SW>Speaking of files Bill... could you please tell me how
 >SW>one would go about obtaining some of the APRO file
 >SW>cases you've got on microfilm? BTW, how did you
 >SW>ever manage to swing _that_ deal? I know CUFOS has
 >SW>been trying to get their hands on that for years!

 >SW>Are these files available via your BBS? Thanks,
 >SW>--Sheldon

 >We have unfortunately run into a snag with the APRO files on the
 >micro-films. We have attempted on several different occassions
 >to get copies of the films so that we could send them to both
 >CUFOS and MUFON in accordance with an agreement we have with
 >both organizations. Not only is the process expensive, but it
 >seems that everytime we have tried the company that is located
 >in Las Cruces had screwed up the job. Lucky they haven't screwed
 >up the original films. Right now we are waiting to see just
 >exactly what happens with the next try. We have been assured
 >that the company is waiting for a new lens and other equipment,
 >and as soon as it comes in they will make another stab at it.
 >One problem is that I refuse to leave the films with the company
 >and require that I be there during the process to insure the
 >films safety. Unfortunately with my health problems and the
 >problems of saving UFINET, I have not been able to find the time
 >to get back up there.

 >Currently the files that are on the films are not available on
 >the system, but hopefully I will have all the problems solved
 >within the near future and everyone will be happy again.

 >Bill.

 >--- RemoteAccess 0.03+
 >* Origin: Gourmet Delight...*HST*... (1:363/29)

 ><<<>>>

How interesting. It was very easy to get a local microfilm
company to duplicate the microfilm. They commented that
Southwest Microfilm's job was fairly good. They were able to
clean up some pages and make the constrast better.

I believe a number of people tried to purchase microfilms from
English to date they have received nothing for their money.


Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
http://www.project1947.com/
P. O. Box 391
Canterbury, CT 06331
(860) 546-9135








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              Re: SETI Launches New Detection Scale - Deardorff

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 09:12:25 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 17:25:45 -0500
Subject: Re: SETI Launches New Detection Scale - Deardorff


 >From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 15:38:37 UT
 >Subject: Re: SETI Launches New Detection Scale

 >>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 18:44:34 -0700
 >>Subject: Re: SETI Launches New Detection Scale

 >>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 12:50:21 -0400
 >>>Subject: Re: SETI Launches New Detection Scale

 >>>>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
 >>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>>Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 18:13:48 -0700
 >>>>Subject: Re: SETI Launches New Detection Scale -

 >>>>>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
 >>>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>>>Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 15:07:49 UT
 >>>>>Subject: Re: SETI Launches New Detection Scale

 >>>>>Perhaps we need to have some sort of rating scale similar to
 >>>>>this for UFO sightings.

 >>>>That seems like a useful idea to me, provided the UFO scale were
 >>>>easily convertible into a probability, p.

 >>>>p = 1 would mean it was/is definitely a "genuine" UFO (Photos,
 >>>>multiple witnesses & other evidence all agree, a large piece of
 >>>>the UFO and/or alien(s) would be available somewhere for
 >>>>qualified scientists to examine and sample, and report on). Of
 >>>>course, no case as yet available to us reaches this level of
 >>>>certainty.

 >Interesting that a book on the subject of ET life indicates a p
 >= 1. Amir D. Aczel asserts in Probability 1 that our existence
 >as an intelligent, evolved species mathematically guarantees the
 >outer-space existence of at least one other equally intelligent
 >civilization. Author of Fermat's Last Theorem, Dr. Aczel
 >approaches the ubiquitous question of ETI with a firm grasp on
 >the concepts of mathematical probability.

Bill,

I'm afraid that won't get very far with those who still opt for
us being the only 'intelligent' species in the galaxy or
universe. They would just point out that if there is 'at least
one other intelligent civilization', then it still leaves
unexplained how that 'one other' civilization got going, and so
on.

 >Suppose now that a panel does assign a very high p value (p >.5
 >or better) and we have a cumulative probability over time that
 >gives us strong indication that some UFOs are TRUFOs. We still
 >do not have a strong probability for their origin point.

The question for their origin point(s) would have to be left
unanswered, for now anyway. Any ET civlization more than a few
hundred thousand years ahead of us would likely have done some
colonizing, a lot of exploring, and may even be living out of
'mother ships' with no longer any home planet. They make make
use of other dimensions we don't know much of anything about,
but which may be available to us some day and therefore perhaps
not be termed 'extra-terrestrial'. So it could require a long
answer to explain 'where they are from'. And of course we can't
just accept where abductees/contactees are told their aliens
come from as being necessarily truthful.

We may, for quite a long time, just have to go on the much
greater likelihood that they originally came from planets around
other stars than that they're from Earth visiting back in time,
or some such. However, the great variety of UFOs and alien
descriptions suggests there have been a lot of points of origin,
not just one.

 >Just for fun, what would you consider factors in a UFO event
 >that would point strongly to an extraterrestrial origin? For
 >instance, UFOs tracked entering the earth's atmosphere or in the
 >vicinity of the moon might be a strong indication that the UFO
 >is a spacecraft because it has been witnessed or recorded
 >operating in the space environment. Since there seem to be
 >competing hypothesis for the origin of TRUFOs, how could we
 >settle on the ETH as a strong hypotheis?

See above. However, didn't Bruce mention a sighting a few weeks
back in which the UFO was triangulated to have been way up above
most all the atmosphere?


Jim Deardorff








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                          Secrecy News -- 10/29/02

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 13:14:24 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 17:29:57 -0500
Subject: Secrecy News -- 10/29/02


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2002, Issue No. 108
October 29, 2002


**      CHANGING CHARACTERISTICS OF AMERICAN SPIES ANALYZED
**      DIA, STATE DEPT ANSWER WORLDWIDE THREAT QUESTIONS
**      SCIENCE AND SECRECY
**      CIA ON CAMPUS


CHANGING CHARACTERISTICS OF AMERICAN SPIES ANALYZED

"Since the end of the Cold War in 1991... characteristics of
American spies have changed," according to a new Defense
Department study of Americans who commit espionage.

"Americans who began spying during the 1990s have been older,
with a median age of 39, and more demographically heterogeneous,
with more women and more ethnic minorities," the study found.
During the Cold War, by comparison, most American spies were
white males younger than 30.

The new spies also tend to be civilian rather than military, are
more likely to volunteer than to be recruited, are more likely
to be naturalized citizens, and are more likely to have foreign
attachments.

In one finding with particular relevance for security policy,
the report stated that "Very few people apply for access to
classified information intending to commit espionage." It
follows that "optimal use of personnel security resources for
countering espionage would focus more on periodic reevaluation
and continuing assessment of experienced cleared personnel,"
rather than intensive focus on new applicants.

The new study, dated July 2002 and released this week by the
Defense Personnel Security Research Center in Monterey,
California, is based on an open source analysis of 150 cases of
espionage against the United States committed since 1947.

"Unfortunately for the student of espionage, government records
include more cases of espionage than are described here, but
access to these is classified and restricted to the relatively
small, cleared community," the report states.

A copy of the report, "Espionage Against the United States by
American Citizens 1947-2001" by Katherine L. Herbig and Martin
F. Wiskoff, is available here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/library/spies.pdf


DIA, STATE DEPT ANSWER WORLDWIDE THREAT QUESTIONS

Newly published responses from the Defense Intelligence Agency
and the State Department to questions from the Senate
Intelligence Committee address a wide range of global security
concerns that contrast in tone, and occasionally in substance,
with responses from the Central Intelligence Agency.

 >From missile proliferation and arms transfers to the security
of the Russian nuclear stockpile, and numerous other topics, the
responses provide summary assessments, occasional new bits of
information-- or intriguing equivocations.

The DIA responses, which notably include a shocking forecast of
the impact of HIV/AIDS in Africa and elsewhere, are posted here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2002_hr/020602dia.html

The State Department responses are posted here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2002_hr/020602dos.html

Like the previously reported CIA responses, these items were
published two weeks ago in the hearing record of the February 6,
2002, Senate Intelligence Committee hearing on "The Worldwide
Threat in 2002."


SCIENCE AND SECRECY

The diverse new national security concerns confronting
scientists, particularly microbiologists, are examined by Ronald
M. Atlas, president of the American Society for Microbiology, in
an essay in the latest edition of Science Magazine:

"Should scientists be constrained regarding questions they ask
and should more research be classified? Should journals reject
papers containing potentially sensitive information? Should
secrecy clearances be required for attendees at biodefense
research meetings? Should there be mandatory government review
before publishing information, even from unclassified studies
and those not funded by government? Finally, perhaps the most
difficult questions of all, exactly what is sensitive
information, and who is empowered to decide what is potentially
dangerous?"

See "National Security and the Biological Research Community" in
Science, 25 October 2002, pp. 753-4 or online here (subscribers
only):

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/298/5594/753

Related issues are also discussed in "New Antiterrorism Tenets
Trouble Scientists," by Peg Brickley in The Scientist, October
28:

http://www.the-scientist.com/yr2002/oct/prof_021028.html


CIA ON CAMPUS

The unfolding relationship between the Central Intelligence Agency and
academia is investigated in "Good Company" by Chris Mooney in the
November 18 issue of The American Prospect, available here:

http://www.prospect.org/print/V13/21/mooney-c.html


_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org

with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web: www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email: saftergood@fas.org
voice: (202) 454-4691






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                              Re: APRO? - Clark

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 12:41:45 -0600
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 17:31:39 -0500
Subject: Re: APRO? - Clark


 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 12:12:32 EST
 >Subject: Re: APRO?

 >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >>To: <UFOupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 14:24:24 -0600
 >>Subject: Re: APRO?

<snip>

 >I forgot that the Boy Bishop always has the final word on
 >minutia, such as the number of ETs on the head of a pin or the
 >exact number of pages of old saucer reports in a church attic.

 >Since I don't take The Communion I should have known better than
 >to offer any helpful advice.

Congratulations, Bob. You've offered the most graceless
concession of error I've ever seen in my life.


Jerry Clark








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                    Re: Secrecy News -- 10/25/02 - Warren

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren@pacbell.net>
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 10:39:24 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 17:36:45 -0500
Subject: Re: Secrecy News -- 10/25/02 - Warren


 >From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 12:30:06 -0400
 >Subject: Secrecy News -- 10/25/02

 >SECRECY NEWS
 >from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
 >>Volume 2002, Issue No. 106
 >October 25, 2002

 >>From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
 >>To: <secrecy_news@lists.fas.org>
 >>Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 12:20:46 -0400
 >>Subject: Secrecy News -- 10/23/02
 >>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0
 >>Message-ID:
 ><B46C7608A9E0D84FAFD9697B62CC6448066B87@server.fasnet.hq.fas.org>

 >>SECRECY NEWS
 >>from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
 >>Volume 2002, Issue No. 105
 >>October 23, 2002

 > <snip>

 >>UFO CULT RESURFACES

 >>The UFO cult that is fixated on the notion that "secret government
 >>documents" contain "the truth" about otherwise "unexplained aerial
 >>phenomena" is, on balance, no friend of freedom of information or
 >>government accountability.

 >>Neverending requests for documentation on UFOs, the remains of Noah's
 >>Ark, and similar obsessions clog up the narrow channels of public
 >>access to government information and make a mockery of the Freedom of
 >>Information Act.

 >>Their latest publicity stunt, featuring no less than former White House
 >>chief of staff John Podesta, is reported in "Clinton Aide Slams
 >>Pentagon's UFO Secrecy" here:

 >>Att: Steven Aftergood,

 >>Was this meant to be a joke? Being that this is a list for the
 >>study of UFO related phenomena etc., I found this an odd
 >>place to present such drivel! I have always looked forward
 >>to the "Secrecy News" postings up until now. Are you
 >>responsible for writing this piece?

 >>Frank Warren

<snip>

 >A WORD ON UFOS

 >The item entitled "UFO Cult Resurfaces" in the previous edition
 >of Secrecy News included regrettable errors of commission and
 >omission, such as these:

 >Proponents of UFO-related declassification are not literally a
 >"cult," and it was gratuitously insulting to use that term;
 >there are at least some historically or otherwise significant
 >documents that remain classified (e.g. records on Project
 >Moondust) that could be considered UFO-related; there is
 >nothing intrinsically disreputable in the investigation of
 >peripheral phenomena; and under the Freedom of Information Act,
 >anyone is free to ask for anything, as they should be.

 >But the fact remains that the interests of those focused on UFOs
 >are not the same as those concerned with the larger problem of
 >public access to government information. Though UFO disclosure
 >advocates have acquired the internet domain name
 >"freedomofinfo.org," it does not accurately represent their
 >narrow goals. (For a more faithful match between domain name
 >and content, see www.freedominfo.org, the online network of
 >freedom of information advocates.)

 >Steven Aftergood
 >Project on Government Secrecy
 >Federation of American Scientists
 >web:  www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
 >email: saftergood@fas.org
 >voice: (202) 454-4691

Steven,

Thank you for your admission of errors in your previous
statement. As evidenced by successful FOIA requests in the past,
as well as lawsuits filed on behalf of the act, there are more
then "some" documents that are "UFO related" and remain
classified.

Most wouldn't argue the point that those "focused" on the UFO
issue, and that excercise their right to make a FOIA request on
said subject are in fact just "doing that." Also, I don't think
the folks who have obtained the name "freedomofinfo.org" were
trying to misrepresent themselves in any way as evidenced by
visiting their site and reading their mission statement. They
are simply using the tools afforded them by our beloved
government to disclose all information known about the UFO
phenomenon.


Regards,

Frank Warren








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                         Netscape's [AOL's] 'AtPlay'

From: Larry Bryant <evelarr@msn.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 15:37:25 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 17:38:32 -0500
Subject: Netscape's [AOL's] 'AtPlay'


http://channels.netscape.com/ns/atplay/content.jsp?file=ufos.jsp








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               UFOs: Seeking the Truth Through Savvy Marketing

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 18:14:07 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 18:14:07 -0500
Subject: UFOs: Seeking the Truth Through Savvy Marketing

http://www.space.com/news/ufo_poll_021025.html


UFOs: Seeking the Truth Through Savvy Marketing
By Leonard David
Senior Space Writer

Posted: 09:25 am ET
25 October 2002

Call it a conspiracy (or savvy marketing), but a new poll
released this week says a majority of Americans think the truth
about unidentified flying objects (UFOs) is out there, yet the
government is concealing it from them.

That's exactly what a new public Roper poll shows, fueling a
fact-hunting investigative group that wants to get to the bottom
of high-flying UFOs.

This week, calls for the U.S. government to be more forthcoming
on what it knows about UFOs increased following the release of
the poll results. That RoperASW study, sponsored by the SCI FI
Channel, shows that 72% of Americans believe the government is
not telling the public everything it knows about UFO activity.

The full poll is to be published next month, just in time for
the science fiction cable network to begin its big media push
for its new show, the Steven Spielberg-produced TAKEN. The show
is set to premiere in December on the SCI FI Channel.

This Roper poll data purportedly will show that most Americans
are psychologically prepared for proof of extraterrestrial life.
Furthermore, a public majority already believes in ET and that
the UFO experience is not foreign to Americans.

The poll also found that 68% of those surveyed think the
government knows more about extraterrestrial life than it is
letting on. Another factoid is that the younger you are the
stronger your belief that the government is withholding info
about UFOs and extraterrestrial (ET) life. The poll revealed a
strong distrust of the government on several issues:

* Most Americans say that the government does not share enough
information with the public in general (55%).

* That, by-and-large when national security is not at risk, the
U.S. government should not withhold information about UFO
sightings (60%) and potential encounters with extraterrestrial
life (58%).

Released October 15, the survey statistics are based on random
telephone calls to 1,021 adults ages 18 and over. The telephone
interviews were completed over two days in August. The margin of
error for the total sample is +/- 3%.

Close encounter with Spielberg

"People are curious, intrigued by the possibility of other life
forms, and want to know more," explained SCI FI Channel's
President, Bonnie Hammer, in a press statement. Hammer is
currently developing Spielberg's 20-hour miniseries for the
channel.

TAKEN, a science fiction-based drama, weaves together the lives
of three families over four generations, picturing the roles
they play in the history of the UFO phenomenon and government
conspiracy.

Hammer and the SCI FI Channel's interest in UFOs were part of a
press event, held October 22 at the National Press Club in
Washington, D.C. The cable outfit declared its support for a new
effort to gain release of secret government records on UFOs.
Announced was the creation of the Coalition for Freedom of
Information (CFI), based in Washington, D.C.

Getting the facts

One of CFI's objectives is to eradicate the stigma in the
scientific community that discourages research into the question
of aerial phenomenon. The newly formed group has launched a new
research campaign into the UFO phenomenon, as well as to promote
more government disclosure about UFOs.

"The history of efforts to pierce the veil of secrecy around the
UFO phenomenon is fraught with frustration, but also examples of
success. We hope we bring additional pressure on several
government agencies to disclose more records," said Ed
Rothschild, CFI's Executive Director. "Additionally, we want to
emphasize the importance of getting the facts so that scientists
can examine them and help determine what in fact UFOs really
are," he told SPACE.com.

Rothschild specifically points to an event in Kecksburg,
Pennsylvania, now some 37 years ago, but firmly affixed in UFO
folklore. That event involved a glowing object tumbling into
woods, later to be retrieved by soldiers and spirited away to an
unknown destination.

However, sources familiar with the incident told SPACE.com that
there is a less UFO-ish explanation. During the Cold War, tiger
teams of specialists often raced to landing sites of reentering
Soviet satellites. Spacecraft recovered offered invaluable clues
to foreign technologies in the heat of the so-called "Space
Race". This reentry and recovery watchdog service continues
today.

Putting the Kecksburg affair aside, many UFO sightings remain
open for investigation.

Open the books

Along with CFI's Rothschild, taking part in Tuesday's National
Press Club event was John Podesta, a former White House Chief of
Staff during the Clinton Administration, now a visiting
professor at Georgetown University Law School.

Podesta's brother, Tony Podesta, has teamed up with Dan Mattoon,
a veteran Republican strategist, to establish PodestaMattoon - a
high-powered public relations and lobbying firm in Washington,
D.C.

The new CFI is headquartered in the same offices as
PodestaMattoon..

"It's time to open the books on the question of government
investigation of UFOs. It ought be done because it's right. It
ought to be done because the American people can handle the
truth. And it ought to be done because it's the law," Podesta
notes.

Podesta said that government doesn't always tell the truth.
"That's why freedom of information is so important_so that the
American public can make their own decisions," he said.

"It is time for the government to declassify records that are
more than 25 years old and to provide scientists with data that
will assist in determining the real nature of this phenomenon,"
Podesta argues.

Political bid

The latest round of UFO disclosure pressure on the government
includes the independent candidacy of Stephen Bassett seeking a
November seat in the 8th Congressional District of the State of
Maryland.

Bassett is a long-time lobbyist and activist on a quest to
demystify the UFO phenomenon. His campaign slogan is "Disclosure
2003."

"For the past five decades the human race has been caught
between two worlds, two paradigms. While millions of people
worldwide have come to understand they are not alone in the
universe, that an extraterrestrial presence has become manifest
about the planet, the governments of the world, frozen in place
by fear and indecision, have been unable to publicly engage this
new reality. This cannot continue," Bassett states in a web site
campaign proclamation.

"It is time for the United States of America, a nation which
views itself as a leader of nations, to formally acknowledge
this extraterrestrial presence. During the campaign the premise
will be put forth that conditions under which the United States
government can end the UFO/ET truth embargo will be ideal in the
coming year - thus the name 'Disclosure2003,'" he explains.

Clogging up the channels

All the talk about UFOs, government secrecy and full disclosure
is not welcome news to everyone.

"The UFO cult that is fixated on the notion that 'secret
government documents' contain 'the truth' about otherwise
'unexplained aerial phenomena' is, on balance, no friend of
freedom of information or government accountability."

That's the view of Steven Aftergood, head of the Project on
Government Secrecy for the Federation of American Scientists in
Washington, D.C.

Never-ending requests for documentation on UFOs and similar
obsessions, Aftergood suggests, clog up the narrow channels of
public access to government information and make a mockery of
the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA).

"The nation is on the verge of war. A sniper has been on the
loose in Washington. The public needs improved access to all
kinds of government information. But records about strange
lights in the sky that may have appeared decades ago are not at
the top of the list," Aftergood told SPACE.com. "Yet the FOIA
logs of national security agencies are full of requests from
would be-Fox Mulders in search of 'the truth' about UFOs," he
said.

"Should such records be declassified? Sure. But not at the
expense of other information needs," Aftergood concludes.








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                       UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 44

From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 20:59:09 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 18:51:14 -0500
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 44

Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor.

<Masinaigan@aol.com>
==========================

      UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 7, Number 44
October 29, 2002
Editor: Joseph Trainor

http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/


UFO ATTACKS A CAR IN
SOUTHERN AUSTRALIA

       "Purnim grandmother Sue Sharples can't explain the
metallic object she saw in the sky yesterday (Friday,
October 18, 2002)."
       "She also has no idea where the rear windscreen of
the vehicle she was driving has gone."
       "Mrs. Sharples said yesterday she was driving with
her husband along Mortlake Road on the northern side of
Warrnambool," Victoria state, Australia "when the couple
noticed the shiny object above the vehicle."
       "Their baby grandson was in a cupola (carseat in the
USA--J.T.) in the back seat."
       "Mrs. Sharples said that after a few fleeting
glances they noticed the rear windscreen disappear
upwards after it seemed to have been 'sucked from' the
car."
       "She admits their story is 'absolutely unbelievable'
but that the proof lies with the vehicle's missing
window."
       "'There is not a scratch on the car.  Nothing,' she
said."
       "Two searches of the area failed to locate the
missing (car) window."
       "The couple's son-in-law phoned police in case
someone had been hurt by the projectile."
       "Experts from the (automotive firm) Windscreens
O'Brien can't explain how the window could have
disappeared."
       "After inspecting the car, a spokesman said the
window could not have been kicked out and there was no
sign (that) it had been cut free."
       "The seal was still attached, and there was no glass
splintering, he said."
       "The windscreen was fitted to the 1994 Toyota
earlier this year (2002)."
       "'How can you say what something is when you have
never seen one before?' she said, 'It's just absolutely
amazing.'"
       While the Sharples UFO case made headlines in
Melbourne, Australian ufologist Ken Johnstone is running
down a report of a rumored abduction that took place in
Victoria state the very same night, Friday, October 18,
2002.
       The report concerns "a missing person--a woman, I'm
told--and there is a full-scale investigation now up and
running.  It occurred on (Friday) 18th October 2002 at
8:22 p.m. on the road just out of Bendigo, Vic.  The
witness was in a car following the missing person.  The
car went missing at the time of the encounter," Johnstone
reported, "The car has been found, but the driver's
location is still not clarified."
       Warrnambool, Vic. is about 220 kilometers (132
miles) west of Melbourne, the state capital.  Bendigo,
Vic. is 200 kilometers (120 miles) north-northwest of
Melbourne.  (See the Australian newspaper The Standard
for October 19, 2002, "UFO encounter: Car's rear window
'sucked out,'" page 6.  Many thanks to Diane Harrison and
the Australian UFO Research Network for the Bendigo
report.)
(Editor's Comment:  And welcome to Target: Australia Week
at UFO Roundup.  All of a sudden, the aliens are showing
a keen interest in the island continent.)


FLASHING UFO SEEN BY TWO
IN WESTERN AUSTRALIA

       On Saturday, October 19, 2002, at 10 p.m., Dr.
Patrick Crawford and his wife, Allison, were outdoors at
their home in Augusta, in the state of Western Australia,
when they noticed something odd in the sky.
       Dr. Crawford reported, "From about 10 p.m., for
three hours, my wife and I watched an object travel
slowly across the sky in an east-southeast to north
direction.  It was brighter than any star or planet and
appeared to be flattened rather than spherical or a
point.  It appeared to rotate with colours visible--red,
white and green.  We have no explanation.  The sky was
almost clear with almost a full moon."
       Augusta, W.A. is on Cape Leeuwin, about 180
kilometers (108 miles) south of Perth, the state capital.
(Email Form Report)


MYSTERIOUS BLUE FLASHES
SEEN IN EASTERN SPAIN

       On Saturday, October 12, 2002, between 8:30 and 9:30
p.m., Pablo and Rosa Perez were "driving on National
Highway 340 in the vicinity of Molins de Rei," near
Barcelona in northeastern Spain.
       "As we drove our car toward Barcelona," Pablo
reported, "all of the lights along the highway turned off
as the horizon became filled with a strange blue light.
One second later, the lights came on again, and two
smaller flashes occurred, having the same shade of blue.
We thought it was an explosion and telephoned the police,
but no explanation was forthcoming."
       "There were many more cars (on the road--S.C.) and
we are sure we weren't the only ones who witnessed the
event," Rosa added.  (Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales y
Jordi Adanuy para eso informe.)
(Editor's Comment:  We're not finished with blue beams
yet.  Check out this issue's stories from Chile and
Pennsylvania.)


UFO PHOTOGRAPHED
IN SOUTHERN FRANCE

       On Tuesday, October 15, 2002, Brazilian ufologist
Leandro da Silva was reading the daily edition of the
newspaper Noticias Restreador and happened to turn to the
Ultimo Segundo photo page.  His gaze casually passed over
an Agence France Presse wirephoto showing a heavy storm
at a beach in southern France.  Then he did a double-
take, peered again closely at the photo, and then reached
for his pocket magnifying glass.
        "The photo shows a thunderstorm on the coast of
France," da Silva reported, and the photo "shows in
intriguing detail a UFO calmly crossing the sky during a
storm."
       "It was a stroke of luck," he added, "I don't always
visit this section of the page.  Upon looking at the
images, I noticed the object in a photo of southern
France.  The thing could be a UFO or not, but since I was
unable to find a reasonable explanation for it, I decided
to send it to Noticias Restreador since I believe that,
as they are in the UFO field, they would have a better
chance of unravelling the mystery."
      The Brazilian newspaper's editorial staff "tried to
contact Agence France Presse, who holds the rights to the
image, but did not obtain any reply."  (Many thanks to
Scott Corrales and Guillermo Gimenez for this report.)
(Editor's Comment:  Perhaps one of our readers in France
can obtain the AFP wirephoto from their local newspaper.
Especially if the newspaper is still lying around the
house.  If you find the wirephoto, please email the image
to UFO Roundup, and we will display it in UFO INFO's
Photo Gallery.)


STUDENT SEES A HOVERING
UFO IN COPENHAGEN

       On Monday, October 21, 2002, student Karim Rashdi
"observed something very unusual from my window in
Copenhagen," the capital of Denmark.
       "At 2 a.m., I accidentally looked out my (apartment)
window and saw what I assumed to be the North Star
(Polaris--J.T.), but it was hovering way too high in the
sky to be connected with the trajectory (path of the
actual star--J.T.)," he reported, "Sometimes it seemed
very close, and sometimes far away (outer atmosphere--
K.R.)  At first I thought it was moving, but, in fact, it
was not.  But I compared its movements to the other star
constellations, and they had moved away from each other."
(Editor's Note:  The object was not traveling in the same
path as the stars' nightly rotation but at an oblique
angle to the other stars.)
       "I am perfectly willing to accept a rational and
logical explanation.  I don't know what it was.  I just
want to know what it was."  (Email Form Report)


ORANGE UFO SIGHTED
IN SINGAPORE

       On Saturday, October 19, 2002, at 7:45 p.m.,
Muhammad Ridhwan Bin Ibrahim was outdoors between
Municipal Blocks 638 and 639 in the Southeast Asian
island city of Singapore when he sighted an unusual glow
in the sky.
       "I was facing east, viewing the stars and the moon,"
Muhammad reported, "And then I saw the object moving to
the south.  It was orange and shaped like a ball or a
circle.  It was fairly luminous.  I had the strange
object in view for two minutes before it disappeared
behind the southern horizon."  (Email Form Report)


UFOs FIRE BLUE BEAMS
IN ANGOL, CHILE

       "The city of Angol in Chile's Ninth Region has
recorded a number of UFO cases in recent years.  One of
the most important cases occurred on (Wednesday)
September 18, 2002."
       "According to the report," which was compiled by
Chilean ufologist Raul Gajardo, "a well-known local
businessman" in Angol "saw a fuchsia-colored object
firing a blue beam of light.  Then another object
appeared.  From this last one, which fired a similar blue
beam, three objects of the same (fuchsia) color were
clustering around it.  Then all of them 'turned off'
except for the first object.  He said this process
occurred ten times and (he) later managed to photograph
the objects with a powerful zoom lens."
       "In spite of the fact that the witness took over 70 photos, the UFOs
appeared in only four of them."
       "The very same day, two functionaries of a local radio station and two
security guards also witnessed 'a red object' in the sky" over Angol the
relative size of a ping-pong ball (held at arm's length--S.C.)"
       Angol is located 500 kilometers (300 miles) south of Santiago de Chile,
the national capital.  (Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales y J.J. Lopez para eso
informe.)
(Editor's Note: Angol has been the site of an ongoing UFO flap for nearly two
years now.  For more on sightings in the city, see UFO Roundup, volume 7,
number 22 for May 28, 2002, "Abductee comes forward in Angol, Chile," page 3.)


WOMAN VIDEOTAPES UFOs
IN HARRAH, OKLAHOMA


       On Wednesday, October 16, 2002, at 2 a.m., eyewitness S. Smith spotted
"a light that flashes blue, white and red and hangs in the east-southeast
sky" in Harrah, Oklahoma (population 4,719).
       "It was there for a while in the night sky, and then it just
disappeared," she reported, "I finally decided to film it a few nights ago
(October 16, 2002--J.T.)  I filmed for 15 minutes."
       "When I brought it (the videotape) in and plugged it
into the TV, and did a frame-by-frame view of the object,
enlarged onscreen.  I was amazed.  What I could not see
with the naked eye was 9 balls of light all lined up in a
row."
      "Then the next frame showed a triangle of three balls
of light.  Then a shape that resembled a saucer.  Then
several more balls of light lined up in a row.  Each
frame had a brilliant glow of beautiful colors in a halo
around these lights."
       "My son gave me a possible explanation that the
thing is spinning faster than the camera can film at the
moment."
       Harrah, Okla. is on Highway 62 approximately 27
miles (43 kilometers) east of Oklahoma City.  (Email Form
Report)


UFO VIDEOTAPED IN
UPSTATE NEW YORK

       On Saturday, October 19, 2002, FOX News aired a
startling video showing an oblong UFO in flight near the
international airport in Albany (population 95,658), the
capital of New York state.
       The FOX voiceover stated, "A strange sight in the
skies over the Capital Region.  No one knows just what it
was.  But it was enough to have the FBI scrambling to
take a look."
       "One of our videographers was shooting (video of) a
plane taking off from the Albany International Airport at
the same time the strange object streaked through the
sky.  It was moving so fast, he didn't even see it, until
he played his tape in slow motion."
       "We're told the object did not show up on radar."
       The UFO was described as "long, slender, with two
sets of small wings."
       Local resident J.R., who witnessed the broadcast,
said, "It was faster than any aircraft I have seen.  It
was so fast, it was only on the screen for four frames.
The local weather guy said it was at an altitude of 4,000
feet (1,200 meters) based on the type of cloud it flew
through."
       Albany is on the Hudson River approximately 153
miles (244 kilometers) north of New York City.
       Earlier in the week, on Sunday, October 13, 2002, in
mid-afternoon, a man saw a UFO in Tivoli, N.Y.
(population 1,163).  He reported, "It was a flying
saucer.  It was grey in color.  It came out from behind a
small cloud.  I was frozen.  I couldn't believe it.  It
was very high up."
       Tivoli, N.Y. is on the east bank of the Hudson River
approximately 53 miles (85 kilometers) south of Albany
and 100 miles (160 kilometers) north of New York City.
(Email Form Reports.  Also Channel 6 news report for
October 28, 2002.  Many thanks to Mary Lou Jones-Drown
for the Channel 6 transcript.)


SOLITARY HIKER SEES A
UFO IN PENNSYLVANIA

       On Sunday, October 20, 2002, the male witness "was
hiking in the woods on Ice Mountain near" Tyrone, Pa.
(population 5,528).  "The man had stayed out longer than
expected that day.  He estimated that it was about 7:30
p.m. as he was walking back to his vehicle, when he
noticed a bright light south of his location, moving
towards him in a northerly direction."
       "His first impression is that it was an airplane.
The light appeared similar to the brightness of a small
aircraft (navigational) light when first observed.  He
then noticed that the light suddenly stopped, then began
to pulsate and appear to brighten and dim.  The witness
then noticed a faint haze that was orange-red in color
and which had encircled the object."
       "The pulsating pattern of the light began to
increase, and it started to flicker very rapidly.  The
light became much brighter as it pulsated.  Suddenly, a
thin beam of very bright blue-white light was emitted
from the bottom of the object to the ground."
       "The witness points out that this was not an
ordinary searchlight.  He stated, 'This was no
searchlight.  Even a well-focused spotlight tends to
diffuse with distance, but this light was a light beam
from top to bottom.  Imagine a piece of dental floss held
at arm's length, and you'll have a good idea of the
beam's apparent width (as seen) from my location.'"
       "The object at first appeared to be circular in
shape and orange-red in color.  When the object stopped
moving and began pulsating, it seemed more oval or egg-
shaped."
       "The object continued to hover in the sky, and the
witness ran to his vehicle, which was 100 yards (90
meters) away, to get his Olympus digital camera.  The
witness took one photograph as the object hovered, then a
second picture just as the object was beginning to move
slowly in a tight circle."
       "As the man prepared to take a third photo, the
object 'suddenly shot straight up in the air at fantastic
speed and was gone from sight.'  The sky condition at the
time was described as partly cloudy.  The witness
estimates that the total incident lasted five minutes or
less...he estimated that he was about a quarter-mile (400
meters) away, and it (the UFO) was 1,000 feet (300
meters) in altitude."
       "'I don't know what this thing was,'" the witness
said, "'I've never seen anything like it before.'"
       Tyrone, Pa. is on Route 483 in the Appalachian
Mountains, approximately 15 miles (25 kilometers) north
of Altoona and about 100 miles (160 kilometers) east of
Pittsburgh.  (Many thanks to Stan Gordon of Pennsylvania
UFO/Fortean Hotline for this report.)


UFOs ENCOUNTERED AT
HUNGRY HILL, B.C.

       Hungry Hill, a lonely peak in the northern region of
Canada's British Columbia province, has been the site of
two UFO encounters during October.
       The first incident took place on Tuesday, October 8,
2002 at 9:45 p.m.  As Canadian ufologist Brian Vike
reported, "a resident from Telkwa, B.C. was heading to
work (graveyard shift--B.V.) at one of our local sawmills
when he spotted, in his words, 'an object shaped like a
piece of pie.'"
       "He also said it had three white lights (one on)
each of the corners, or 'fins' as he put it.  When his
eyes caught it, he turned into a pull-out area (a highway
rest area or rest stop in the USA--J.T.) at the top of
Hungry Hill," located 15 miles (25 kilometers) west of
Houston, B.C., "mainly to see what it was going to do."
       "He also said the object sat and hovered in one
place, approximately 200 feet (60 meters) up from the
base of Grouse Mountain, and did not make a sound that he
could hear.  He said the UFO was black and estimated its
size as being '40 feet (12 meters) across.'"
       "He watched the object move off in a westerly
direction towards Quick and Telkwa, B.C.  The witness
said he had had enough, as it bothered him, and got back
into his vehicle and got out of the area quickly."
       On Thursday, October 17, 2002, at 8:30 p.m., "an
older couple were on their way home to Topley, B.C., 13
miles (22 kilometers) east of Houston, from shopping in
Smithers, B.C.  They were coming up Hungry Hill (which
has a long, steep grade--B.V.) when one of the witnesses
saw a green/red flashing.  She said it would flash from
red to green, then green to red."
       "She said to her husband, 'Do you see what I see?'"
       "He said, 'Yes, I do!'"
       "They both said the object moved slowly above the
treeline near the top of the hill.  She said it would
stop, hover, continue moving slowly, then disappear.  As
they drove along, the object reappeared--just above the
treetops, and then moved across the highway in front of
them and again came to a complete stop."
       "At this point, they stopped their car and just
watched the strange object, moving back and forth across
the highway, still just above treetop level.  Before the
object left the location, it started trailing 'sparkly
stuff' behind it, which shot out approximately 100 to 200
feet (30 to 60 meters), and left in a northeasterly
direction, which would have been towards Grouse
Mountain."
       "The object was circular in shape, and both
witnesses said there was no noise or interference with
their car radio.  One witness said the object was the
size of 'old satellite dishes.'  (An old C-band satellite
dish is 10 to 12 feet (3 to 3.7 meters) in diameter--
B.V.)."  (Many thanks to Brian Vike for these reports.)


RED SPHERICAL UFO SEEN
IN RIO LINDA, CALIFORNIA

       On Saturday, October 19, 2002, Janice Bailey "went
out at 8:56 p.m.," and while outside her home in Rio
Linda, California (population 10,466), "looked northeast
and saw a large red ball of fire about the size of the
full moon not moving for about five seconds.  The object
did not seem to be moving, just hovering in one spot.
Seemed to be bright red and round like the full moon and
about the same size at 30 degrees above the horizon.  The
object just seemed to go invisible or to disappear behind
the trees."
       Rio Linda, Cal. is 8 miles (13 kilometers) north of
Sacramento, the state capital. (Email Form Report)
(Editor's Note:  This is the second sighting report UFO
Roundup has received from the Sacramento area.  Two weeks
ago, a UFO was spotted in Walnut Creek, Cal.  For more
information, see UFO Roundup, volume 7, number 42 for
October 15, 2002, "California woman catches a UFO on
videotape," page 2.)


LARGE PLANET FOUND
ORBITING DOUBLE STAR

       "University of Texas astronomers have confirmed that
a planet orbits one of a pair of stars 45 light-years
(260 trillion miles or 416 trillion kilometers--J.T.)
away.   It is the first discovery of an 'extrasolar'
planet in a binary star system where the two stars orbit
each other closely."
       "Such binary systems are common in the galaxy."
       "'When you look at the stars in the sky, every other
one of them is a double star or a multiple star,' said
Canadian astronomer Gordon Walker.  Planets have been
found in binary star systems before, but in those cases
the two stars were separated by a distance of at least
100 times greater than in this case."
       "If a planet can form in a close binary system,
without getting tossed out of orbit by the secondary
star, then extrasolar planets might be more common in the
universe than previously believed, Walker said."
       "The star in question is known as Gamma Cephei, or
Errai, which is the third-brightest star in the
constellation Cepheus the King.  Gamma Cephei has a dim
companion star that orbits from 1 billion to 3 billion
miles (1.6 to 4.8 billion kilometers) away; at most, that
places the two stars as far apart as (our) sun and
Neptune."
       "The newfound planet orbits Gamma Cephei at an
average distance of 200 million miles (320 million
kilometers) or about twice the distance between (our) sun
and the Earth.  The planet is nearly twice as massive as
Jupiter and takes about two years to go around its star."
       "Gamma Cephei is the brightest star other than (our)
sun known to have a planet, said William Cochran of the
University of Texas, who led the research team.  The star
is about 3 billion years old, a bit younger than (our)
4.6-billion-year-old sun.  But Gamma Cephei is more
massive than the sun, so it will burn through its nuclear
fuel sooner and die."
       "Astronomers don't know whether the planet might
have formed around Gamma Cephei, as the Earth did around
the sun, or whether it might have been captured from
elsewhere in space.  But its near-circular orbit suggests
that it may have formed in place, Walker said."
       "And that could mean Gamma Cephei's planet would be
a good place to search for extraterrestrial life.  It
could be at the right distance for water, considered a
prerequisite for life to exist, without boiling away or
freezing.  Although the planet itself is probably a gas
giant like Jupiter, it could have rocky moons that
support life, Cochran said."  (See the Duluth, Minn.
News-Tribune for October 27, 2002, "Planet discovered
orbiting one star in a binary system," page 18A.)


  From the UFO Files...

1974: CLOSE ENCOUNTER IN
            AVELEY, ESSEX, UK

       It all began on October 27, 1974 when, "after
visiting relatives, the Days were on their way back home,
with two (younger) children," Karen and Stuart, "sleeping
in the backseat, and the oldest, Kevin, listening to the
radio."
       Suddenly, their parents, John and Susan Day, found
their attention "drawn to a blue oval light that first
paced their car and then passed in front of them.  At
about 10:10 p.m., and close to home, the Days lost sight
of the object behind some high bushes on the right-hand
side of the road."
       "But suddenly the Days felt that something was
wrong.  The sound of their car (engine) vanished, and the
radio crackled and smoked.  Then, just before their
headlights went out, they spotted a block of green mist
on the road just ahead of them."
       "The car jerked as it entered the mist.  And, after
what seemed like a moment of silence and coldness, it
(the car) emerged.  A few minutes later, they arrived
home."
       "But it was 1 a.m., nearly three hours later than it
should have been."
       "Under hypnosis three years later, John Day revealed
that, while in the green mist, his family and their car
had been teleported up a column of light into a craft,
where they underwent medical examinations at the hands of
a couple of four-foot (1.3-meter) tall beings wearing
loose white gowns."
       "These neckless and slightly hunched-over creatures
had animal-like faces with large triangular eyes and
large pointed ears.  Short fur covered all their visible
body parts, and their hands had four clawed digits
(fingers).  Occasionally the creatures made chirping
noises."
(Editor's Note:  I've seen a sketch of these particular
aliens.  They have a strong resemblance to the alien
character, Blastaar, in the Fantastic Four comic book.)
       "These beings seemed subservient to another set of
beings aboard the ship, who stood about six and a half
feet (2 meters) tall and wore suits that covered their
hands and formed hoods over their heads.  Though their
mouths and ears were not visible, they looked nearly
human, with the exception of their pink eyes."
(Editor's Note: Reptoids have been reported to wear
voluminous hooded robes.  See UFO Roundup, volume 6,
number 2 for January 10, 2001, "1985: Reptoid Hall," page
7.)
       "These taller beings seemed to run the show and
escorted John and Sue on a tour of their three-level
craft.  During this tour, the Days were given an
explanation of the ship's propulsion system and shown a
holographic movie of space that included the destruction
of the aliens' home planet by pollution."
       "The car and family were then returned to a spot on
the road about half a mile (0.8 kilometers) from where
they had been abducted.  The family members reportedly
underwent some major personality changes in the months
following their encounter."  (See the book The Field
Guide to Extraterrestrials by Patrick Huyghe, Avon Books,
New York, N.Y., 1996, pages 72 and 73.  See also Flying
Saucer Review, volume 23, number 6 for April 1978, pages
13 to 25; and volume 24, number 1 for June 1978, pages 5
to 15.)

       Well, that's it for this week.  Several months ago--
to be precise, on March 31, 2002, at a UFO conclave in
Rancagua, Chile, a strange blue force field called a
Xendra appeared.  Twenty-five ufologists entered the
field, where they reportedly met bald extraterrestrials
wearing robes.  The aliens told them that there would
soon be more and more UFO sightings in "the Southern
Zone," i.e. Earth's southern hemisphere.
       You can call them names, if you please, but you
cannot call them liars.  Judging from what we've seen in
the southern hemisphere since last March--cattle
mutilations and UFOs in Argentina and Uruguay, the
present flap in Australia--the aliens weren't bluffing.
Will Australia continue to be a target?  Find out next
week in "the paper that goes home--UFO Roundup."  See you
in seven days!

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2002 by Masinaigan Productions,
all rights reserved.  Readers may post news items from
UFO Roundup on their Websites and in news groups provided
that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name
and list the date of issue in which the item first
appeared.

E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com>
or use the Sighting Report Form at:

http://ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Website comments: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>

UFOINFO: http://ufoinfo.com

Official Archives of UFO Roundup, AUFORN Australian
UFO Reports and Experiences, UFO + PSI Magazine, plus
archives of Filer's Files, Oz Files, UFO News UK and
UFO Sightings Italia.

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   UFO UpDates
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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   Oct > Oct 30

                  Re: UFOs: Seeking the Truth Through Savvy

From: John Cussen <john.cussen@btopenworld.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 00:33:04 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 06:37:36 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs: Seeking the Truth Through Savvy


 >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers -
 >Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 18:14:07 -0500
 >Subject: UFOs: Seeking the Truth Through Savvy Marketing


 >Source: Space.Com

 >http://www.space.com/news/ufo_poll_021025.html

 >UFOs: Seeking the Truth Through Savvy Marketing By Leonard
 >David Senior Space Writer

 >Posted: 09:25 am ET 25 October 2002

 >Call it a conspiracy (or savvy marketing), but a new poll
 >released this week says a majority of Americans think the truth
 >about unidentified flying objects (UFOs) is out there, yet the
 >government is concealing it from them.

 >That's exactly what a new public Roper poll shows, fueling a
 >fact-hunting investigative group that wants to get to the
 >bottom of high-flying UFOs.

 >This week, calls for the U.S. government to be more forthcoming
 >on what it knows about UFOs increased following the release of
 >the poll results. That RoperASW study, sponsored by the SCI FI
 >Channel, shows that 72% of Americans believe the government is
 >not telling the public everything it knows about UFO activity.

<snip>

Hi All,

Well, I have to say "savvy marketing" because what this poll
actually shows is that the test group from which these
statistics were drawn is incredibly disproportionate to the
actual size of the American population, and therefore without
the justification for the headline-grabbing figures of "72%
think THIS".

The test group was 1,021 people who were contacted by telephone
- let's ignore for now the general response of most people when
they are disturbed by what, for all intents and purposes, is a
telemarketer; namely "Oh yes, I'll give you an answer that will
get you off the phone as quickly as possible".  So, 1,021 people
out of a population of around 250 MILLION people.

The mathematics show the problem with these kinds of straw
polls, assuming the population of America is 250 million:

1. 1,021 people were polled

2. 1,021 people is just 0.0004% of the population

3. 72% of the population is 180 million people

4. 72% of the actual number of people polled is 735 people

5. Therefore, analysing the actual number of people asked the
question, 735 people (which is 0.0003% of the entire population)
believe the government is not telling the public everything it
knows about UFO activity... but this isn't such a great headline
grabber!

Maybe the other 249,999,000 or so people weren't at home when
the phone rang...

Best wishes and good humour to all,

John







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   Oct > Oct 30

                     Fox News: Albany Video Back Online

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 04:48:36 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 06:51:31 -0500
Subject: Fox News: Albany Video Back Online


The links are found at

http://www.fox23news.com/

Stig

***

Start of forwarded message:

From: news@fox23news.com
To: stig.agermose@privat.dk
Subject: Fwd: (10/29/02)  Breaking News from FOX23:
Date: 29-10-02 19:12:00

For all awaiting the video of the object flying over Albany
International airport, it is now back online on a new server
that should be able to handle the high demand.

We have also added a chatroom where our viewers can discuss
their thought on this video. The link to chat is just above the
link to the video. This chatroom is unmoderated. FOX23 is not
reponsible and does not endorse any views expressed in this chat
room.

End of forwarded message ----








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   Oct > Oct 30

                   Freedom Of Information Act On The Ropes

From: Grant Cameron <presidentialufo@presidency.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 20:26:13 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 07:19:10 -0500
Subject: Freedom Of Information Act On The Ropes


Source: WorkingForChange

http://www.workingforchange.com/printitem.cfm?itemid=13911

Freedom of Information Act on the ropes
Bill Berkowitz - WorkingForChange

10.11.02 - The Bush Administration is no friend of the Freedom
of Information Act. In October 2001, with few but hard-core
right-to-know advocates paying attention, Attorney General John
Ashcroft issued his required memorandum regarding FOIA policy.
In preparation before September 11, the memo "reflects a
movement back to the policy of the Reagan administration,"
commented Access Reports, an organization tracking access to
government information for more than 25 years.

Ashcroft's new policy "supersedes the 1993 memo issued by then
Attorney General Janet Reno, replaces Reno's 'foreseeable harm'
test emphasizing disclosure, with a 'sound legal basis' test
that emphasizes withholding records," reports Access'
newsletter.

While these changes may seem like legalese blather -- more
subtle than substantive -- it does represent a significant
change in policy.

As columnist and political organizer Jim Hightower pointed out
in a late July column posted at Alternet, "Secrecy_ is now the
prevailing ethos of the White House: There's the secret
government that Bush established; the constant refusal to
release public records_; Bush's attempts to hide his father's
presidential records and his own gubernatorial papers from
public view; the secret war on terrorism, complete with secret
arrests and closed military tribunals; the decision to hide the
results of the Pentagon's Star Wars missile tests; the refusal
to make public the SEC investigative files on Bush's slippery
stock deal with Harken Energy Inc."

Attempting to gut the Freedom of Information Act could be added
to the list.

The Freedom of Information Act "has been hailed as one of our
greatest democratic reforms... allow[ing] ordinary citizens to
hold the government accountable by requesting and scrutinizing
public documents and records," points out Ruth Rosen in a column
in the San Francisco Chronicle. "This act allowed greater access
to FBI records; access that had been previously severely
proscribed. Without it, journalists, newspapers, historians and
watchdog groups would never be able to keep the government
honest," she added.

A refresher: The Freedom of Information Act was enacted by
Congress and signed by President Lyndon Johnson in 1966. But it
wasn't until seven years later when Congress, in the aftermath
of the Nixon White House's Watergate scandal, overrode President
Ford's veto and passed the Privacy Act of 1974. Ruth Rosen calls
the FOAI "our post-Watergate reward_ [and] our national sunshine
law, legislation that forces agencies to disclose their public
records and documents."

Although succeeding Attorneys General have issued memos
reversing or modifying the policies of their predecessor, "there
is no substantial empirical evidence that any of these memos
worked a significant influence on implementation," Access
Reports notes. However, "they do set a tone by which the
administration will be known."

Ashcroft's retooled FOIA

In his October memo, Attorney General Ashcroft recognizes "it is
only through a well-informed citizenry that the leaders of our
nation remain accountable to the governed and the American
people can be assured that neither fraud nor government waste is
concealed." Then he talks about "other fundamental values"
including "safeguarding our national security, enhancing the
effectiveness of our law enforcement agencies, protecting
sensitive business information, and not the least, preserving
personal privacy." In instructing agencies dealing with FOIA
requests, Ashcroft pointed out that "any discretionary
decision... to disclose information protected under the FOIA
should be made only after full and deliberate consideration of
the institutional, commercial and personal privacy interests
that could be implicated by disclosure of the information."

Ashcroft assured agencies that should they decide to withhold
information, they will be fully supported by the Department of
Justice "unless they lack a sound legal basis or present an
unwarranted risk on the ability of other agencies to protect
important records."

At a mid-March conference in Philadelphia on computer-assisted
reporting sponsored by Investigative Reporters and Editors, some
journalists reported that the number of FOIA request refusals is
on the rise, along with the time it takes to hear from the
government. In a report in the March/April 2002 issue of
Columbia Journalism Review, John Giuffo writes that "It's not
just access to sensitive data about infrastructure and water
supplies... that is being blocked." Barbara Fought, a Freedom of
Information law officer at Syracuse University, during one of
four panels convened to discuss the impact of the Ashcroft memo
said that "We're beginning to hear about a few problems, which I
think signal a different tone with the Bush administration and
the Attorney General."

Several panelists felt that the Ashcroft FOIA memorandum was
symptomatic of the Bush Administration general bend toward
greater secrecy. "The larger problem with the Bush
administration is its attitude toward secrecy," said panelist
William Ferroggiaro, director of the Freedom of Information
Project of the National Security Archive. Giuffo writes that
Ferroggiaro "pointed to a number of recent actions by President
Bush -- his sealing of Ronald Reagan's presidential records and
the White House's battle with the General Accounting Office, for
exxample -- as proof of a restrictive view of access to
government information."

Journalists and good-government activists aren't the only people
concerned with access. "Congress has begun to signal its concern
about the Bush administration's penchant for secrecy, the March
25 issue of Access Reports pointed out. Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-
Vt) asked the General Accounting Office "to study FOIA
implementation with an eye to assessing how Attorney General
John Ashcroft's October memo on FOIA implementation may have
adversely affected the disclosure of records." In the House,
Rep. Henry Waxman (D-Calif) "used the occasion of the re-issuing
of the 'Citizen's Guide,' the congressional guide to FOIA and
the Privacy Act, to indicate that the Ashcroft memo was contrary
to the spirit of the law."

Down by the river

In Michael Greenbaum's case, the commercial outfitters took his
FOIA request and launched a preemptive strike against future
requests. Since he began writing the "Uncle Mikey" column for
The Confluence - his organization's newsletter - a few years
ago, he has been down the road of delayed responses from the
government but he never had been denied information he had been
previously receiving. He told me, "When I get on to something, I
try to check it out as thoroughly as possible. One of the best
ways of confirming a tip is through a FOIA request. If the
federal government starts denying or limiting my ability to have
access to public information, then we're all up the river
without the proverbial paddle."

Based upon the partial denial of his FOIA request, Greenbaum has
initiated an administrative appeal. As of this writing, he has
received no response from the USFS headquarters in Washington
regarding the appeal.

Greenbaum has been on the river-watch for the better part of two
decades. And despite a recent accident that put a crimp in his
research efforts, he fully intends to keep on with what he's
doing. Will the U.S. Forest Service capitulate to the
outfitter's request? Right now, there is every indication that
they will, Greenbaum said. And if they do, it's certain to slow
down his research, but it won't temper his resolve. "There
aren't any river runners doing deep research," he said. "But as
long as I'm around, you can bet the federal river managers are
going to hear from me."








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   Oct > Oct 30

                     Re: Magonia Supplement 41 - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 12:13:10 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 14:42:48 -0500
Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 41 - Ledger


 >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 41
 >Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 20:58:41 +0000

 >>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 20:26:30 +0100
 >>Subject: Magonia Supplement 41

 >>Here is the latest issue of the Magonia Supplement, edited by
 >>John Harney. A net version is available at:

 >>MAGONIA Supplement
 >>No. 41  22 October 2002

 >>EDITORIAL

 >>In this issue we return to the theme of the ETH, which this
 >>newsletter was originally started to discuss, with the aim of
 >>getting believers in the ETH to present the best evidence for it
 >>in a clear and rational manner and to list those UFO incidents
 >>which they thought should be presented as the most promising
 >>indications that the ETH might be true, and might eventually be
 >>shown to be true. It was all in vain, as most ETH enthusiasts
 >>greatly resent having their favourite UFO reports subjected to
 >>critical examination and seeing all the flaws and
 >>inconsistencies in the stories laid bare. However, we intend to
 >>persist in exposing the weaknesses of the case for ET spaceships
 >>and their occupants, in the hope that some ufologists will
 >>eventually see sense.

 ><snip>

 >John,

 >What a pack of nonsense! You (and/or John Harney) don't bother
 >to read or study, or respond to, publications like The UFO
 >Evidence, Volume II, which provide overwhelming reason to take
 >the ETH seriously and that indeed go into hardcore cases in great
 >detail.

 >Until you do, Magonia continues to be an advocate of ex cathedra
 >"truth" and the debunker party line, quite divorced from any
 >rational analysis of data.


Dick, John,

Where else is the Magonia Supplement published?

Is there a dearth of Skeptic Sites out there which the MS is
targeting? Are we then the CC'd recipients of the MS?

I gotta tell you John that this is pretty tired, skeptic dogma -
the same-old, same-old. It seems to me that if these UFO Lists
didn't exist then the MS wouldn't either.

If this isn't the case, where's the feedback from the annointed
in the skeptical side of the field? Re evidence of the ETH and
re-entry data on same.

I've seen many satellite images and STS images over the years
begging better answers than the ice flakes explanation or pixel
anomalies which are dragged out each time only to explain
embarrassing shots of that which can't really be explained.

Everytime I've asked James Oberg, for instance, to give me his
take on the tether anomalies - I'm met with cricket noises. The
tired 'not painted on radar' explanation for not seeing
entering, possibly extraterrestrial craft, is a dead issue since
terrestrial use of stealth technology is commonplace. And it
doesn't have to be military.


Best,

Don Ledger







   UFO UpDates
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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
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   Oct > Oct 30

                          Filer's Files #44 - 2002

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 13:24:24 EST
Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 14:47:57 -0500
Subject: Filer's Files #44 - 2002


FILER'S FILES #44  -  2002, MUFON Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer, Director Mutual UFO Network Eastern
October 30, 2002,  Majorstar@aol.com.
Webmaster: Chuck Warren
Website: http://www.filersfiles-ufo.com

SIGHTINGS CONTINUE WORLDWIDE

The purpose of these files is to report the UFO eyewitness and
photo/video evidence that occurs on a daily basis around the
world and in space.  Features this week are: Are we a colony of
another civilization?  Green Fireball over Europe, Multiple UFOs
seen New York, New Jersey sphere and cross sightings,
Pennsylvania UFO emits beam, Georgia UFO seen by family,
Wisconsin lights, Illinois ten UFOs near O'Hare Airport,
Missouri green triangle,  New Mexico photos, Idaho sphere UFO,
Washington disk, Canadian wedges, Chile UFOs photographed, UK
lights in sky, and Borneo and Australia UFO reports in news.  A
Free UFO Symposium will be held at George Washington University
on the 4th of November.

COLONY EARTH

Our Milky Way Galaxy has at least 100 billion stars, and in all
probability has 400 billion stars.  Astronomers have identified
over one hundred planets outside our own solar system and a high
proportion of the closely examined stars seem to have some type
of solar system creating supposition that there are millions,
perhaps billions of earth like planets in our Galaxy alone. Carl
Sagan once said: "There may be a million worlds in the Milky Way
Galaxy alone which are at this moment inhabited by other
intelligent beings" (Cosmos, episode XI). We also are finding
that meteorites carry the essential building blocks for life,
therefore it is reasonable to assume they have spread life
throughout the universe like the proverbial angels of God or
Johnny Appleseed.  A study of several hundred solar-like stars
shows signatures of heavy elements in their spectra from which
we can deduce that material to form Earth-like planets is
probably abundant.  Our own sun is a relatively young star and
if life exits in space, other civilizations have had millions,
perhaps billions of years to advance ahead of us.  If even only
a few alien civilizations have arisen in the 10 billion or so
year history of our Galaxy, most of the habitable parts of the
Galaxy would likely be colonized by now.

When I spoke at the University of Toronto, I learned that
Astronomer Norman Murray believes that, "The implication, if
this result holds up, is that there are Earth-like bodies in
orbit around most of the stars in our galaxy."  Earth is already
sending out satellites throughout our solar system and farther.
It is pretty easy to deduce that we will explore much of our
Galaxy even at speeds less than the speed of light and find some
forms of life.  Launching space probes is becoming cheaper and
it is reasonable to assume we will choose to launch exploration
for various reasons.  Earth is rapidly being over populated, so
we may choose to develop other planets to settle, or attempt to
conquer, or conduct mining operations.  Eventually, missionaries
may spread our religion and civilization throughout our Galaxy.

It is reasonable to assume there must be a few other
civilizations in our Galaxy that most likely developed much
earlier than our own.  Unless civilizations tend to destroy
themselves with their own technology, most alien civilizations
would be technologically thousands or even millions of years
ahead of us.  If these civilizations exist we can logically
assume they have or are visiting Earth.  Carl Sagan stated in
his book, "Intelligent Life in the Universe"=E2=C7=A6"I believe that
efficient interstellar spaceflight to the furthest reaches of
the Galaxy is a feasible objective for humanity.  If this is the
case, other civilizations, aeons more advanced than ours, must
today be plying the spaces between the stars." (page 449.)
Astronomer Ian Crawford wrote, His diffusion model leads to
"full galactic colonization" in 5 to 50 million years
(Scientific American, Nov. 2000, page 8).  Several million years
is a long time in comparison to a human life span, but it is
short in comparison to the life span of main sequence stars.
Enrico Fermi, the famous physicist, argued in 1943, "Where are
they?" Extraterrestrials should have colonized Earth long ago,
but they are not here..  Fermi was a prominent scientist, and
his question is called: Fermi's Paradox.

My response to Enrico Firmi, is that extraterrestrial probes are
visiting us on a regular basis.  They may not have shown
themselves openly, but  humanity is not looking at or analyzing
the ample evidence available.  Each week for over five years in
Filer's Files, I have provided evidence that our Earth is being
visited by probes from other civilizations.  While I was on
active duty in the US Air Force, London Control directed us to
investigate and intercept a large UFO.  We intercepted the UFO,
I saw it on my radar and visually just before it flew away at
incredible speed.  There are thousands of similar stories where
aircrews, ground and airborne radar operators have observed
UFOs.  It's time for scientists to start looking at the
incredible evidence collected daily around the world.  NASA
Space Shuttle videos are a good place to start. In my opinion we
are not alone.

GREEN FIREBALL UFO OVER NORTH SEA

AMSTERDAM TOWARDS ENGLAND -- The Dutch Meteor Society reports, a
green fireball unidentified flying object brighter  than the
moon was sighted over large parts of western-Europe on Saturday
evening October 27, 2002, at 19:20:20 UT.  Many observers report
the sky went green- bluish for a few seconds. Combining reports
from Belgium, the Netherlands, Denmark and Britain we presume
the fireball appeared over the North-sea moving roughly from
east-southeast to west-northwest.  Using accurate observations
reported by Klaas Jobse and Alex Scholten the fireball appeared
about 120 km west-north-west from Amsterdam and appeared to pass
fifty km north of Great Yarmouth on the eastern coast o f
England.  The exact beginning point and ending point of the
fireball are uncertain.  .

There is a great deal speculation about the exact nature of
green fireballs.  Dr. Lincoln LaPaz, a respected astronomer from
the University of New Mexico was absolutely convinced that the
green fireballs are not conventional fireballs or meteorites.
Green fireballs were passing over New Mexico on a fairly regular
basis, often followed by a series of UFO reports.  La Paz also
ruled out other unconventional types of meteors and fireballs.
Based on Space Shuttle videos the UFOs may create the green
fireball upon entry into the Earth atmosphere.  Frequently they
are sighted above sensitive military installations.  FBI
Documents as outlined in the book, "Above Top Secret," by
Timothy Good reveals: .. 'the matter of Unidentified Aircraft or
Unidentified Aerial Phenomena, otherwise know as Flying Disks,
Flying Saucers and Balls of Fire' =E2=C7=A6 is considered to be top
secret by Intelligence Officers of both the Army and the Air
Forces.' (Page 267).  I suggest that green fireballs may be
extraterrestrial probes entering our atmosphere.  The green
fireballs appear to fly horizontal paths indicating a possible
probe rather than a meteorites.  The green color of the glowing
gases simply does not agree with what is known about meteorites.
There is a detailed map showing the trajectory of the fireball
at:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~dmsweb/fireballs/20011027_fireball.html
The Faurid meteor shower is expected on October 31.

NEW YORK BRIGHT LIGHTS -

ROME -- As I was driving to pick up my sister at her high school
on October 7, 2002, I noticed a VERY bright object in the sky.
Another appeared below it. I picked up my sister and we sat in
the car with a clear view of the west, and noticed the bottom
one started zigzagging left and right. At least two other ones
appeared below the large bright one and did the same. The bright
one dimmed dropped down even with the other two and shot back
up. The lights changed from bright to dark several times and
then one dark one shot across below those, much closer. We
observed this activity until clouds rolled in and obscured the
view!

THOUSAND ISLAND BRIDGE -- While fishing in the St Larence River
on Sunday, October 6, 2002, -at between 7 and 7:30 AM, my
fishing partner and I observed a saucer shaped object in the sky
just to the east of the rising sun.  As the sun kept rising and
moving, the object stayed in one place. It was hard to judge the
distance-50 to 100 or more miles at a 30 degree angle from
ground level. We did not see it leave as trees got in the way.
It was definitely nothing I have ever seen before.

FARMINGDALE, LONG ISLAND -- I was up late as usual and I always
look around outside and I look up and appreciate the sky. On
October 6, 2002, there was one "star" in the sky at about eye
level, that was so bright that I assumed it was a plane. Just
one bright white glow. I stared at it until my eyes watered and
I would look away for a moment close my eyes and re-open them,
look back and stare again...same thing. It seemed to hover but
then move quickly slightly to its left then right. It was far
away and the distance it seemed to travel so quickly ruled out
my second idea that it might be a helicopter. I went outside at
3 AM, leaned on my car and stared into a clear night at this
bright object.  I noticed at times a sparkle of light to its
left and right or maybe my eyes tired from staring, I don't
know. I gave up and dismissed it as "whatever" until I found
that there have been many reports of objects in Long Island.

NEW YORK CITY -- Mary Fowler writes, "I just saw something very
odd while sitting by the window of my apartment at 1:30 AM, on
October 29, 2002.  I saw a string of lights that looked like a
constellation floating by in the sky.  I wanted to go to the
rooftop of my building to get a better look but was too afraid
because I am not really a believer in UFO's. I am very surprised
to see something strange like this, especially in New York City.
Could it have been birds migrating? But if it were birds why was
it lit up like stars? I am very uneasy about this. Do you know
what this could be?  Thanks to Mary.

ALBANY -- Bruce Cornet PH.d. reports that a possible daylight
filming of a UFO was just broadcast by FOX TV NEWS on October
28, 2002.  It pertains to an incident that occurred on the
afternoon of October 20th near Albany, when a FOX 23 news
photographer Brandon Mowry filmed the fast-moving unidentified
metallic flying object.  Mowry said that he didn't notice the
fast-moving object zooming across the sky until he went back to
his station and watched the video.   The tapes were sent to the
FBI to determine exactly what the object is.  The object was a
slender cylinder, with two projections  or "fins" extending
outwards from each above the clouds.  They showed numerous
clips, stills, and enhancements of the object, which they
presented as a "U-F-O or what?"  It was  either a missile or
projectile of some sort which resembled a giant missile flying
dangerously close to a jetliner.    The sky conditions were
clear with some wispy white clouds.  The UFO passed behind one
such cloud, and a commercial jet also briefly appears in the
video.  Police were called, who then apparently notified the
FBI.  Hopefully, the media will carefully follow this story.
Based on estimates the object was estimated to be 1,000 feet
long.  They showed the object one frame at a time in the clouds.
They commented that some people believe this is a living
creature.  The news story lasted for about 10 minutes.  Thanks
to bcornet@monmouth.com

NEW JERSEY SPHERE AND CROSS

JERSEY CITY -- The witness reports sighting a sphere with an
unmistakable copper finish on October 7, 2002, that was not
emitting light but reflecting it. It turned black and shadowy on
its lower half intermittently giving an impression of undulation
The sphere was approximately 2 to-3 feet in diameter based on
its visibility in reference to the Chase building about a half-
mile away and its relative size in comparison with Chase's
satellite dishes .. It flew a straight and consistent flight
path to the northeast maintaining an altitude of about 300 feet.
Its trajectory and path was too straight for a balloon to
maintain for the duration that I witnessed. It made no sound.

UNION -- At 1:55 PM, on October 6, 2002, the witness looked
toward the east  and saw what appeared to be two extremely
small, white aircraft that resembled crosses.  They moved at
slow air speed and each appeared to release two parachutes.  But
I saw no person attached to them. Instead, I saw what looked
like two tear-dropped, transparent shapes, almost the
consistency of a bubble a kid would blow.  After a minute, they
vanished and the aircraft moved west. Then, from behind a cloud,
came three more planes of the same description and they formed a
five-across formation and headed west toward Morristown, N.J.
Thanks to Peter Davenport  NUFORC

PENNSYLVANIA A UFO EMITS BEAM

CLARKES SUMMITT -- At around 9:30 PM on October 8, 2002,  my
daughter was driving south on Route 81 at the 195 mile marker
when she saw strange lights.  At the same time another trucker
said, he saw a UFO.  She called me to tell me about it. I was
expecting a shipment of birds at the Post Office in Scranton
that came in about 10:00 PM, so my 13 year old daughter and I
drove to pick them up.  Knowing that I was going through the
same area as the UFO report, we kept our eyes open. When we
passed the 195 mile marker to my left was an oval object with
both a red and blue row of lights.  We pulled off and sat there
looking at it.  It was the weirdest thing we ever saw.  The
lights were fading out to almost no lights and then coming back
on bright.  My daughter yelled "Oh my God, its moving."  It was
not moving straight but more in a circle. The object was not
rotating, because the several rows of the lights were very
defined as it moved around the local area. There are no airports
or military bases in the area and it was too big and too high
for a prank. I can't see how anyone could have faked this. Peter
Davenport reports the witness was very credible.  Thanks to
Peter Davenport  NUFORC

GEORGIA AN OBJECT SEEN BY MY ENTIRE FAMILY

EASTMAN -- My family was driving home from the fair on October
13, 2002, when we spotted a very bright light.  It was not quite
dusk when we saw it. We drove slowly with the windows down until
we lost sight of it behind some trees and we turned around to go
back for another look.  We saw it again in the same spot and
then as if it had seen us, it just blinked off like a light
bulb.  The sky was clear and I am familiar with the towers and
other light producing objects in the area. The UFO was way too
bright and just above tree top level about 5 miles away.  The
light was almost "pure" white. I could not make out a shape
behind it.  I made a report to Warner Robins Air Force Base,
Georgia an hour after the sighting.  Thanks to Peter Davenport
NUFORC

ILLINOIS TEN UFOs FLY A MILE OUTSIDE OF O'HARE FIELD.

DES PLAINES -- At about 4:30 PM, my wife was getting our kids in
the car to leave on October 5, 2002, when we heard our neighbors
yelling, look up there!  There were ten balls of light at this
distance moving around at what I estimate to be a mile high.
They were higher than the planes are at that distance from the
airport. They then formed into an hourglass shape or two
triangles and remained that way for about five minutes.  They
changed again to an inverted L shape and started to travel east
towards the lake.  They then changed again to two rows of two or
five on top of five with the outside two lights being farther
north than the others.  They stayed this way until they flew out
of site in about 15 minutes. Five minutes later two more flew
directly north to south past us at a much closer distance.
There was still one on top of the other, so we could see the
shape was a flying triangle or possibly diamond.   NUFORC

MISSOURI  BRIGHT GREEN TRIANGULAR OBJECT

SPRINGFIELD -- The witness states, "This event was probably
space junk burning up in the atmosphere on October 11, 2002, but
the intensity of the light, color, and speed of object were
extraordinary." A shape was discernable at 6:17 CDT. It was
roughly an acute triangle with points of greater brightness.
Color was bright green with gold overtones. Sparks were flying
off the thing tangential to direction of movement. It traveled
roughly from an 11:00 position to almost the horizon in a north-
northeasterly direction. Color of sparks ranged from gold to
dark red. It looked like it had a plasma surrounding it. The
object was about 16 millimeters in length and about 4 or 5
millimeters in width at the widest as observed by the naked eye.
There was also some structure evident in the shape itself with
some longitudinal lines of brightness, almost a gold red,
running through the basic shape. It was quite striking. I
observed it from the driver's seat of my vehicle and was
startled enough to come to a complete stop and contemplate what
I had just seen. Thanks to Peter Davenport  NUFORC

WISCONSIN WE SAW PURE A LIGHT THAT SPLIT

HAYWARD -- My friends were walking down the road and we noticed
a flashing pure light on October 10, 2002. This light was never
there before, because it was by our radio hill.  When we stopped
and the flashing kept moving around and then the light would
occasionally split into 3 to 4 different lights and go back.
The light was at a 30 degree angle and appeared to be a
spherical. When it flashed the light came out in all directions
and I can also tell that it was below the clouds because when it
flashed it lit up the clouds behind it above it and below it.  I
have lived here many years and have never seen a light like that
before . We could also see it moving slowly. It would flash and
seem to split, but by the time the next flash took place it
rejoined. Thanks to Peter Davenport


STRANGE SPHERE ABOVE NORTH IDAHO.

ROSE LAKE --  As we were traveling east on I-90 we observed a
bright sphere that was not moving on October 12, 2002. We pulled
over on exit 34 to get a better look and realized that the
sphere had split or there were actually two together.  One went
west and the other went east, then began to zigzag as it turned
east by southeast. After that it quickly faded from view, but
not apparently from traveling too far away. After the sphere
separated or split, my wife and I continued to watch the one
going south by south-west, and we didn't really keep track of
the other moving west. My son, who is ten and daughters 7, and
watched the other one moving west, as they could see it out the
rear window of our car.  As it continued moving west until it
faded. (NUFORC Note: The object the witnesses observed was not
the ISS, which passed overhead at 19:08 and 20:44 hrs. on this
date.) http://www.heavens-above.com/

NEW MEXICO UFO PHOTOGRAPHED

LAS CRUCES -- The witness reports, "I took 4 pictures of the
mountains to the west on October 5, 2002, with a Canon G2
digital camera. The last shot taken at 4:49 PM was enlarged
after downloading to a computer. Only then were the images of
two objects noticed in the sky. One in the upper left was disk-
shaped and appeared metallic in luster. A second object, below
and to the right of the first, was apparently much smaller
and/or farther away.

WASHINGTON FAST-MOVING DISK SAUCER-SHAPED LIGHT

RENTON -- I saw one UFO moving very fast across the sky on
October 12, 2002,. I was in the military and I've seen A-10's
moving at high speed and low altitude, but this was the fastest
I've ever seen anything move. What I saw was a little more than
a half circle of light, with the brightest section facing the
direction of movement, kind of like you would expect a meteor to
look as it was coming down through the atmosphere. It appeared
about the size of a quarter from my perspective.

SEATTLE -- At  6:00 AM, on October 10, 2002, I observed a sphere
shaped object descending from the sky to the north and the
object I saw was entirely lit up and was yellow orange in color
with a smaller red light on top. In its rapid descent, it moved
in a downward jerking motion and occasionally made darting
motions to either side. It did not appear to be an airplane or a
helicopter, there were no landing lights etc. Thanks to Peter
Davenport  NUFORC

CANADIAN SEVEN SILENT WEDGED SHAPED OBJECTS.

OSHAWA, ONTARIO -- My wife and I were watching TV around 10:30
PM, on October 14, 2002.  We live on the sixth floor of an
apartment building. To the east, there appeared to be 2 or 3
orange colored lights coming towards us, (this happens
frequently as we are apparently in the flight path of the Oshawa
airport). The only thing was, the lights did not get any closer.
They seemed to possibly be about a mile away from us.  They
hovered for a while and eventually, as time went by, at least
seven lights were seen by both of us.  I used binoculars to try
and see more, but all I could make out was the orange lights and
nothing else, except for what seemed like smoke, steam or
exhaust coming from them at times?. This stream of exhaust
seemed to go up into the sky quite a ways.  We heard no sound
and the night air was calm.  If there were helicopters hovering
in the night sky, I'm sure we would have heard something. Then
they were gone.

HUNGRY HILL B.C. -- Brian Vike writes, a resident from Telkwa,
British Columbia was heading to work at 9:45 PM, to one of our
local sawmills on October 8, 2002, when he spotted, in his
words. "An object shaped like a piece of pie!" He also said it
had three white lights at each of the corners, or "fins" as he
put it.  The witness also said he lives under the flight path
for the Smithers Airport, and had not ever seen an object of
this type or shape fly over head in the past, so seeing this was
very unusual.  When his eyes caught it he turned into a rest
spot at the top of Hungry Hill to watch.  The object sat and
hovered in one place about 200 feet up from the base of Grouse
Mountain and did not make a sound.  The black silhouette was
about 40 feet across and it flew off in a westerly direction.
Thanks to Brian Vike, Editor for the Canadian Communicator

CHILE UFO PHOTOGRAPHED

ANGOL -- A number of anomalous aerial phenomena have been
recorded over the area since September and reports have
intensified since October 14, 2002. The city of Angol in Chile's
Ninth Region has recorded several UFO waves in recent years and
these reports have been collected by local researcher Raul
Gajardo.  On September 11, a well-known local businessman saw a
fuchsia-colored object firing a blue beam of light. "Then
another similar object appeared.  From this last one, which
fired a similar blue beam, three smaller object of the same
color were clustering around it. Seventy photos were taken with
a zoom lens but the  UFO only appeared in four of them. Members
of a local radio station and two security guards also witnessed
a red object having the relative size of a ping-pong ball.
Thanks to Scott Corrales for the translation (C) 2002.

UK STRANGE LIGHT IN THE SKY

ROTHERHAM -- On October 12, 2002,at approximately 7:45 PM, my
fianc=C3=A9 and I were walking home and noticed a strange light in
the sky. He pointed it out to me and we both observed it for
about two minutes. We are both quite certain that it wasn't a
helicopter, airplane, or a star. It was much bigger and brighter
than a star and it swayed from side to side and seemed to bob up
and down. The light faded and got brighter whilst we watched it
for about two minutes until it eventually just disappeared
altogether, but it did not move away, it just faded away.  We
both observed strange white beams of light coming off it that
resembled a sparkler.  I live near to Sheffield in England. The
strange light that I sighted was over Tickhill in South
Yorkshire, England.  Peter Davenport reports If the reported
time is correct, the object was not the Space Station/Space
Shuttle, which were rendezvoused on this date. They passed over
at approximately 19:30 hours. (7:30 PM).

BORNEO ISLANDS STRANGE SIGHTS!

KOTA KINABALU, SABAH -- It was 7 PM in the evening, while I was
at the factory coming out for a smoke on October 8, 2002.  I saw
this craft with lights in the sky hovering.  At first, I didn't
pay much noticed to it cause I thought would be a helicopter
flying around the area. Then I realized that the object wasn't
making any sound and the lights on the craft seems like a
hamburger.  It was hovering slowly like a normal helicopter will
do but after two minutes looking at the object , it suddenly
disappeared with trials of lights following it. That is, the
last I saw of the object, and that was when my spine started to
shiver. Two days later the Daily Express in Sabah had a front
page picture of the object.

AUSTRALIA -- UFO ATTACKS A CAR

VICTORIA STATE -- "Purnim grandmother Sue Sharples can't explain
the metallic object she saw in the sky yesterday (Friday,
October 18, 2002)."  "She also has no idea where the rear
windscreen of the vehicle she was driving has gone." "Mrs.
Sharples said yesterday she was driving with her husband along
Mortlake Road on the northern side of Warrnambool, when the
couple noticed the shiny object above the vehicle."  Their baby
grandson was in a cupola in the back seat. Mrs. Sharples said
that, "After a few fleeting glances they noticed the rear
windscreen disappear upwards after it seemed to have been
'sucked from' the car." "She admits their story is 'absolutely
unbelievable' but that the proof lies with the vehicle's missing
window and there is not a scratch on the car.  Nothing," she
said.  Two searches of the area failed to locate the missing
(car) window.  The couple's son-in-law phoned police in case
someone had been hurt by the projectile.  "Experts from the
(automotive firm) Windscreens O'Brien can't explain how the
window could have disappeared."   "After inspecting the car, a
spokesman said the window could not have been kicked out and
there was no sign (that) it had been cut free." "The seal was
still attached, and there was no glass splintering, he said."
"The windscreen was fitted to the 1994 Toyota earlier this year
(2002)." "'How can you say what something is when you have never
seen one before?' she said, 'It's just absolutely amazing.
Thanks to "The Australian," October 19, 2002,

A Free UFO Symposium at George Washington University

Interstellar Travel and Unidentified Aerial Phenomena  At this
unique symposium eminent scientists and aviation experts will
explore the potential for interstellar travel and the evidence
of unidentified aerial phenomena, sometimes referred to as UFOs.
Hosted by The George Washington University and sponsored by SCI
FI Channel, this symposium will provide attendees with a
scientific understanding of how interstellar travel might be
possible and highlight the need for a thorough scientific
investigation of unidentified aerial phenomena.   Moderator -
Ray Suarez, Senior Correspondent, The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer,
Dr. Michio Kaku, professor of theoretical physics at the City
College at the City University of New York,   Dr. Richard Henry,
professor of astrophysics at Johns Hopkins University,   Dr.
Peter Sturrock, emeritus professor of applied physics at
Stanford,   Dr. Jacques Vallee, astrophysicist and computer
scientist,   Dr. Bernard Haisch, Director for the California
Institute for Physics and Astrophysics,  Ted Roe, Executive
Director of the National Aviation Reporting Center for Anomalous
Phenomena,   John Callahan, former Division Chief of Accidents
and Investigations for the FAA: The George Washington
University's Marvin Center -- Continental Ballroom. 800 21st
Street.  November 8, 2002, from 9:00 AM to 1:00 PM  Call Cynthia
Determan at (202) 879-9309.

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   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   Oct > Oct 30

                    Re: Magonia Supplement 41 - Whitlock

From: Chris Whitlock <cjwhit@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 20:13:05 +0000 (GMT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 16:38:03 -0500
Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 41 - Whitlock


 >From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 12:13:10 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 41

 >Where else is the Magonia Supplement published?

 >Is there a dearth of Skeptic Sites out there which the MS is
 >targeting? Are we then the CC'd recipients of the MS?

 >I gotta tell you John that this is pretty tired, skeptic dogma -
 > the same-old, same-old. It seems to me that if these UFO Lists
 >didn't exist then the MS wouldn't either.

 >If this isn't the case, where's the feedback from the annointed
 >in the skeptical side of the field? Re evidence of the ETH and
 >re-entry data on same.

 >I've seen many satellite images and STS images over the years
 >begging better answers than the ice flakes explanation or pixel
 >anomalies which are dragged out each time only to explain
 >embarrassing shots of that which can't really be explained.

 >Everytime I've asked James Oberg, for instance, to give me his
 >take on the tether anomalies - I'm met with cricket noises. The
 >tired 'not painted on radar' explanation for not seeing
 >entering, possibly extraterrestrial craft, is a dead issue since
 >terrestrial use of stealth technology is commonplace. And it
 >doesn't have to be military.


Hi,

This is my first post to this List, which I have been following
for a time. My name is Chris Whitlock and I'm the webmaster at
Ufology UK:

http://www.ufology.org.uk

I dont subscribe to a lot of UFO Publications but I chose
Magonia to be one of them. I have found it to be a resourceful
and enjoyable read that keeps its content and acuracy of data
and does not tend to fly off too often with mumbo jumbo personal
opinion/theories.

If you do not believe or conclude with the ETH, how does this
make you a skeptic? It surly makes you someone who believes in
another theory.

There are lots of research AND theories out there regarding UFOs
and I have found the ETH the one with the least scientific
evidence but the one with the most passionate personal belief.

Not all Ufologists are loooking for ET.

Regards

Chris Whitlock
Ufology UK






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   Oct > Oct 31

                                   Videos?

From: Royce J. Myers III - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 15:48:40 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 22:31:29 -0500
Subject: Videos?


Greetings,

I'm currently looking for two videos:

1)  World's Greatest Hoaxes Exposed

2)  Spaceships of the Pleiades (supplemental for the book)

Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks.


Regards,

Royce J. Myers III
UFOWATCHDOG.COM








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   Oct > Oct 31

              Science & The Failure To Investigate Unidentified

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 04:09:39 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 04:09:39 -0500
Subject: Science & The Failure To Investigate Unidentified

http://www.freedomofinfo.org/news/science_research.pdf


Science and the Failure To Investigate Unidentified Aerial Phenomena
by
Leslie Kean

A Research Report

Commissioned by SCI FI Channel

October 22, 2002

Copyright Leslie Kean, 2002.

i
Executive Summary

The UFO phenomenon is real

Unidentified aerial phenomena, otherwise known as UFOs, are
real, not the stuff of science fiction. Something for which
there is no scientific explanation has been observed in
America's (and the world's) air space for over fifty-five years.
Trained observers -- pilots, air traffic controllers, radar
operators, astronauts, military personnel -- and government
agencies have reported and documented spectacular events
visually, photographically, and on radar. Many accounts are
available in the literature.

  - Despite intense public interest, there has been no
independent, federally financed scientific research conducted on
these phenomena since the flawed and biased 1969 Condon report.

The findings of Dr. J. Allen Hynek

The late J. Allen Hynek, professor of astronomy at Ohio State
University and later chairman of the astronomy department at
Northwestern University, was an official astronomical consultant
to the U.S. Air Force's Project Blue Book. His classified report
for the Air Technical Intelligence Center (ATIC) at Wright
Patterson Air Force Base recommended that the UFO question be
given "the status of a scientific problem," freeing the
scientists from the restraints of secrecy which confuse the
public. "The first effort should be to determine with great
accuracy what the phenomena to be explained really are and to
establish their reality beyond all question," he said.

  - His request for a scientific study was not granted. Instead,
the Air Force, CIA, and later the 1969 University of Colorado
Condon report undermined valid scientific data through secrecy
and deceptive press releases.

The Congressional testimony of Dr. James E. McDonald

On July 29, 1968 the House Science and Astronautics Committee
heard the testimony of Dr. James E. McDonald, senior physicist
of the Institute of Atmospheric Physics and Professor of
Meteorology at the University of Arizona. A respected authority
and leader in the field of atmospheric physics, McDonald had
authored highly technical papers for professional journals. He
spent two years examining formerly classified official file
material and radar tracking data on UFOs; interviewing several
hundred witnesses; and conducting in-depth case investigations,
details of which were provided to the Committee.

McDonald told the Committee that, "no other problem within your
jurisdiction is of comparable scientific and national
importance_the scientific community, not only in this country
but throughout the world, has been casually ignoring as nonsense
a matter of extraordinary scientific importance."

  - Despite an apparent positive response from some Committee
members, the requests of McDonald and other scientists for
further action by the Congress never materialized.

ii Seeking UN sponsorship

Between 1975 and 1978, Sir Eric M. Gairy, Prime Minister of
Grenada, proposed to the United Nations General Assembly that
the UN establish "an agency or a department of the United
Nations for undertaking, coordinating, and disseminating the
results of research into Unidentified Flying Objects and related
phenomena." Hynek, with his associate Dr. Jacques Vallee and Lt
Col. Larry Coyne, a US Army pilot who almost collided with a UFO
in December, 1978, asked that the United Nations "provide a
clearing house procedure whereby the work already going on
globally can be brought together in a serious, concentrated
approach to this most outstanding challenge to current science."
He pointed out that UFOs had been reported in 133 member states
of the UN and that there existed 1300 cases where "there appears
physical evidence of the immediate presence of the UFO."

  - Like the Congressional hearings of 1968, the proposals got
nowhere at the UN. The research of Dr. Peter Sturrock

In 1997, Dr. Peter A. Sturrock, emeritus professor of applied
physics at Stanford University and emeritus director of
Stanford's Center for Space Science and Astrophysics, organized
and directed a four-day workshop funded by philanthropist
Laurance Rockefeller. The purpose of the conference was to
rigorously review purported physical evidence associated with
UFO reports and to assess whether the further acquisition and
investigation of such evidence is likely to help solve the UFO
problem.

Seven investigators presented cases with photographic evidence;
luminosity estimates; radar evidence; interference with
automobile functioning; interference with aircraft equipment;
apparent gravitational or inertial effects; ground traces;
injuries to vegetation; physiological effects on witnesses; and
analysis of debris.  - A review panel of nine distinguished
scientists from diverse fields recommended continued careful
evaluation of UFO reports stating that, "New data,
scientifically acquired and analyzed" could provide useful
information and "physical scientists would have an opportunity
to contribute to the resolution of the UFO problem."

The French government studies the phenomenon The French space
agency known as CNES (Centre National d'=C9tudes Spatiales) has
been the only government agency to conduct a consistent, non-
military investigation into UFO incidents for over twenty years
through its agency called SEPRA (Service d'Expertise des
Ph=E9nom=E8nes de Rentr=E9es Atmosph=E9riques).

In 1999, four-star General Bernard Norlain, former commander of
the French Tactical Air Force, and other retired generals and
admirals from the French Institute of Higher Studies for
National Defense; Jean Jacques Velasco, head of SEPRA; Andre
Lebeau, former head of CNES, and a team of scientists and
engineers, released an historic study titled UFOs and Defense:
What Should We Prepare For? The group called themselves the
COMETA, meaning "Committee for In-depth Studies."

iii The French group spent three years examining nearly 500
international aeronautical sightings and radar/ visual cases,
and previously undisclosed pilots' reports. Their three-year
study drew on data from government and military sources around
the world. It concluded that about 5 percent of sightings on
which there is solid documentation seem to be "completely
unknown flying machines with exceptional performances that are
guided by a natural or artificial intelligence."

  - To address the problem, the COMETA urged international action.
It recommended that the European Union undertake diplomatic
action with the United States "exerting useful pressure to
clarify this crucial issue, which must fall within the scope of
political and strategic alliances." The group openly challenged
US denial of the UFO problem.

Britain's former defense chief weighs in

Great Britain's former Chief of the Defense Staff and five-star
Admiral Lord Hill-Norton has taken an outspoken stand in favor
of scientific research. Two years ago, in response to his
government's public dismissal of a multiple-witnessed landing of
a glowing craft that left physical ground traces at Bentwaters
Air Force base in 1980, he said:

  - "This should be the subject of rigorous scientific
investigation and not the subject of rubbishing by tabloid
newspapers."

Aviation safety is a concern

In 2000, Dr. Richard Haines, a retired senior aerospace
scientist from NASA-Ames Research Center and formerly NASA's
Chief of the Space Human Factors Office, authored a report
documenting over 100 cases of pilot encounters with unidentified
aerial phenomena that raise safety concerns, including 56 near
misses. The objects paced the aircraft at relatively near
distances, disabling on board instrumentation and sometimes
caused pilots to make sudden, evasive changes in their flight
paths. Most incidents remain unreported due to the ridicule and
official debunking policy that the pilots face. According to the
report, "Aviation Safety in America - A Previously Neglected
Factor," published by the National Aviation Reporting Center on
Anomalous Phenomena (NARCAP) founded by Haines,

  - "Responsible aviation officials should take[these] phenomena
seriously and issue clear procedures for reporting them without
fearing ridicule, reprimand or other career impairment and in a
manner that will support scientific research."

It's time for a scientific study of UFOs

The national security argument is no longer acceptable as a
justification for the U.S. government withholding of decades old
reports of events and physical samples that may have been
recovered. Scientists are the proper authorities to determine
the true nature of the UFO phenomena. They stand ready and
waiting to conduct comprehensive, ongoing studies, if only the
resources are provided. The public appears ready to support the
research with its tax dollars, if only they are given the
opportunity.

  - The policies and attitudes of certain government officials and
agencies must change so that the investigation of unidentified
aerial phenomena can move forward with the rest of contemporary
science.

Science and the Failure To Investigate Unidentified Aerial
Phenomena Overview

"Physicists working in Europe announced yesterday that they had
passed through nature's looking glass. . . opening up the
possibility of experiments in a realm once reserved for science
fiction writers," stated a September New York Times article
about the creation of antimatter.[1]


A scientific probe into unidentified aerial phenomena, also
known as UFOs, could do the same thing. Yet there has been no
independent, federally financed scientific research conducted on
these phenomena since 1969, despite intense public interest. A
September 2002 Roper Poll, prepared for the SCI FI Channel,
showed that 56% of Americans believe that UFOs are something
real and 72% believe that the government is not telling the
public everything it knows about UFO activity.[2]

UFOs are not science fiction. In the 1950's the Air Force
defined them as "any airborne object which by performance,
aerodynamic characteristics, or unusual features does not
conform to any presently known aircraft or missile type, or
which cannot be positively identified as a familiar object."[3]

There is no implication of origin inherent in the meaning of the
word "UFO." It simply means "unidentified." These objects have
been observed in our air space for over fifty years. Trained
observers - pilots, air traffic controllers, radar operators,
scientists, military personnel -- and government agencies around
the world have reported and documented spectacular events
visually, photographically and on radar.

Accounts of these incidents are widely available in the
literature.[4]

Most of the thousands of UFO reports submitted each year can be
explained. But approximately 5% to 10% represent solid objects
capable of speeds, maneuverability and luminosity far beyond
current known technology.[5]

As far as we know, these are not natural and they are not
manmade. The question is: What are they? Why haven't scientists
been able to study them and provide us with answers? Those
scientists who have examined the evidence agree that for the
benefit of all humanity, our government must disclose
information on the phenomenon to facilitate a full-fledged,
independent scientific investigation spanning many disciplines.

"The phenomena is something real"

In 1947, Lt. General Nathan Twining, Commander of Air Materiel
Command at Wright Patterson Air Force Base, sent a now-famous
secret memo concerning "Flying Discs" to Brig. General George
Schulgen, Chief of the Air Intelligence Requirements Division at
the Pentagon.

"The phenomena is something real and not visionary or
fictitious," he wrote. "The reported operating characteristics
such as extreme rates of climb, maneuverability (particularly in
roll), and action which must be considered evasive when sighted
or contacted by friendly aircraft and radar, lend belief to the
possibility that some of the objects are controlled either
manually, automatically or remotely." Twining described the
objects as metallic or light-reflecting, circular or elliptical
with a flat bottom and domed top, and usually silent.

The AMC Commander stressed the need for "physical evidence in
the shape of crash recovered exhibits which would undeniably
prove the existence of these objects."[6]

In order to make a detailed study and investigation, the Air
Force established the top secret Project Sign. It presented an
"Estimate of the Situation" to Chief of Staff General
Vandenberg, concluding that the evidence indicated UFOs were
interplanetary. Vanderberg decided the report lacked proof and
sent it back; it was declassified and burned shortly
thereafter.[7]

 From then on, it was clear to Air Force investigators that the
effort must shift to a search for other explanations, such as
Soviet spacecraft or weather balloons. Project Sign was renamed
Project Grudge, which became Project Blue Book in 1951. With no
access to case information classified higher than Secret, the
project was largely a public relations effort attempting to
explain away as many sightings as possible.

Government enlists scientists to undermine science

Documents show that while grappling with the reality of
unexplainable flying objects, some government officials could
not so easily dismiss the possibility of something
interplanetary. In July of 1952, the FBI was briefed through the
office of Major General Samford, Director of Air Intelligence,
that it was "not entirely impossible that the objects sighted
may possibly be ships from another planet such as Mars." Air
Intelligence is "fairly certain" that they are not "ships or
missiles from another nation in this world," the FBI memo
reports.[8]

Another FBI memo stated some months later that, "Some military
officials are seriously considering the possibility of planetary
ships."[9]

The CIA had urgent national security concerns. H. Marshall
Chapman, Assistant Director of Scientific Intelligence, told the
Director of Central Intelligence (DCI) in 1952 that, "Sightings
of unexplained objects at great altitudes and travelling at high
speeds in the vicinity of major U.S. defense installations are
of such nature that they are not attributable to natural
phenomena or known types of aerial vehicles."[10]

The agency decided to establish a "national policy" as to "what
should be told the public regarding the phenomenon, in order to
minimize risk of panic," according to government documents. It
would be presented to the National Security Council. Chapman
said the DCI must be "empowered" to initiate the research
necessary "to solve the problem of instant positive
identification of unidentified flying objects."[11]

To do so, the DCI would "enlist the services of selected
scientists to review and appraise the available evidence_"[12]

The office of scientific intelligence began an association with
H. P. Robertson, specialist in physics and weapons systems from
the California Institute of Technology, "toward establishing a
panel of top scientists and engineers" for this purpose.[13]

In January 1953, the CIA Office of Scientific Intelligence
convened its advisory panel of "selected scientists" for a
cursory, four-day review of some UFO cases and film footage. The
group fulfilled its mission of establishing the desired national
policy: A covert "educational program of training and debunking"
designed to reduce the number of UFO reports. It suggested using
"mass media such as television, motion pictures, and popular
articles" to reduce public interest and gullibility, with the
assistance of psychologists and advertising experts. Civilian
groups studying UFOs should be "watched" due to their influence
on public thinking. The final recommendation was that "the
national security agencies take immediate steps to strip the
Unidentified Flying Objects of the special status they have been
given and the aura of mystery they have unfortunately
received."[14]

The pronouncements of the panel forever affected attitudes in
the media toward the subject of UFOs. Ridicule remains the
predominant mainstream media response to the subject, despite
the fact that those dismissing it have not looked at the
evidence and are uninformed. Attitudes of the scientific
community are greatly impacted by media condescension and
censorship of this issue.

J. Allen Hynek, professor of astronomy at Ohio State University
and later chairman of the Astronomy Department at Northwestern
University, was an official technical consultant to Project Blue
Book for two decades. As a skeptic and debunker himself when
beginning his work for the Air Force, Hynek sat in on most of
the Robertson panel meetings. He said later that the panel gave
short thrift to real science. "The implication in the Panel
Report was that UFOs were a nonsense (non-science) matter, to be
debunked at all costs," Hynek wrote in 1977.[15]

After interviewing astronomers on the subject of unidentified
flying objects just prior to the Robertson Panel meeting, Hynek
noted that even discussing the subject led to an "overwhelming
fear of publicity" for these scientists.

In a 1952 classified report for the Air Technical Intelligence
Center (ATIC) at Wright Patterson Air Force Base, Hynek
recommended that the UFO question be given "the status of a
scientific problem," freeing the scientists from the restraints
of secrecy which confuse the public. "The number of truly
puzzling incidents is now impressive," he reported. "The first
effort should be to determine with great accuracy what the
phenomena to be explained really are and to establish their
reality beyond all question."[16]

His request was not granted. Instead, five months later the
Robertson Panel "made the subject of UFOs scientifically
unrespectable. For nearly 20 years not enough attention was paid
to the subject to acquire the kind of data needed even to decide
the nature of the UFO phenomenon," Hynek said.[17]


Air Force press release misrepresents scientific data

Following the 1952 overflights of unidentified objects in
Washington DC, which were picked up on radar at two Air Force
bases and chased by F-94 jets[18], the Air Force turned to the
Battelle Memorial Institute, a prestigious scientific research
organization. It asked the Institute scientists to address the
following question: Do the objects officially designated as
"unknowns" differ from the "knowns?" If one examines the basic
characteristics of color, speed, shape, light brightness, number
of objects and duration of observation, are the descriptions
similar for both groups? Through a statistical analysis, it
could be determined at what probability the unknowns and knowns
were actually the same. If the characteristics of both groups
are close to the same, one could deduce that the unknowns are
probably misidentifications of ordinary things. If they differ
strongly, then one could argue that UFOs are "real." Performed
under the supervision of ATIC, the findings of this study were
presented in the 1955 Project Blue Book Special Report #14,
classified Secret.[19]

When standardized statistical tests were applied to over 2000
sightings, the probability was less than 1% for each of the five
characteristics (other than brightness) that the unknowns and
knowns were the same. Yet the report's conclusion blatantly
disregarded these definitive results. It stated, "The results of
these tests are inconclusive since they neither confirm nor deny
that the unknowns are primarily unidentified knowns, although
they do indicate that relatively few of the unknowns are
astronomical phenomena."

The unknowns were defined in the Battelle report as distinct
from known objects such as balloons, astronomical data,
aircraft, and miscellaneous and psychological manifestations.
They were also defined as clearly distinct from those sightings
with insufficient information. In other words, there was enough
information to determine the unknowns were not anything known.
Yet the summary stated the false contradiction that "all
unidentified aerial objects could have been explained if more
complete observational data had been available."[20]

Another finding of the study was that unknowns constituted 33%
of all sightings from 1947 - 1955 for which the reliability of
the sighting was categorized as "excellent." Yet the press
release never presented this. It only cited the unknowns from
the first four months of 1955, which were a low 3%, as if that
was the relevant determination of the study.

The press release concluded that no evidence for "flying
saucers" was found.[21] This simply was not true. Although the
report contained extensive data and applied sound scientific
techniques, the scientists presented nonsensical conclusions
unrelated to that data. Blue Book Special Report #14 was never
made available to the press or public so they could read it for
themselves. The press summary was conveniently used to further
debunk the issue, in support of the Robertson Panel
recommendations. Battelle even kept its involvement secret from
the press and public. After the report was declassified, Hynek
attempted to retrieve the records and working papers of the
Battelle study, which the study had stated were being preserved
for reference. The Battelle Memorial Institute - "an otherwise
flawless scientific research organization" -- told him they had
been destroyed.[22]


Congress hears from scientists

On July 29, 1968 the House Science and Astronautics Committee
was pressured by public reaction to some dramatic UFO sightings
to hold a day-long "Symposium on Unidentified Flying Objects"
because "the rigid and exacting discipline of science should be
marshaled to explore the nature of phenomena which reliable
citizens continue to report," according to the then Chairman
Representative J. Edward Roush of Indiana."[23]

The testimony of Dr. James E. McDonald, senior physicist of the
Institute of Atmospheric Physics and Professor of Meteorology at
the University of Arizona, was the most extensive. A respected
authority and leader in the field of atmospheric physics,
McDonald had authored highly technical papers for professional
journals. He spent two years examining formerly classified
official file material and radar tracking data on UFOs;
interviewing several hundred witnesses; and conducting in-depth
case investigations, details of which were provided to the
Committee.

McDonald told the Committee that no other problem within their
jurisdiction compared to this one. "The scientific community,
not only in this country but throughout the world, has been
casually ignoring as nonsense a matter of extraordinary
scientific importance." McDonald indicated that he leaned
towards the extraterrestrial hypothesis as an explanation, due
to "a process of elimination of other alternative hypotheses,
not by arguments based on what I could call 'irrefutable
proof.'"[24]

Dr. James Harder, a University of California professor of civil
engineering, explored possible propulsion systems for
interstellar travel that could be used by those UFOs
demonstrating incredible maneuvers at high speeds without any
noise. "On the basis of the data and ordinary rules of evidence,
as would be applied in civil or criminal courts, the physical
reality of UFOs has been proved beyond a reasonable doubt," he
said. UFOs have demonstrated "scientific secrets we do not know
ourselves."[25]

Dr. Hynek recommended that a Congressional UFO Scientific Board
of Inquiry set up a mechanism for the proper study of UFOs
"using all methods available to modern science" and that
international cooperation be sought through the United
Nations.[26]

Despite an apparent positive response from the Committee
members, the requests of the scientists for further action by
the Congress never materialized.


The Air Force tries closing the book

In 1966, the Air Force commissioned the University of Colorado
to conduct a definitive, impartial study on all the UFO data
accumulated by Project Blue Book. Headed by physicist Dr. Edward
U. Condon, the project was profoundly flawed right from the
start. A memo by project coordinator Robert Low to two
University Deans on August 9, 1966 discussing the pros and cons
of taking on the project was unearthed by two project members
who were fired for making it public.

If the project were to be undertaken, Low laid out the problem:

One has to approach it objectively. That is, one has to admit
the possibility that such things as UFOs exist. It is not
respectable to give serious consideration to such a
possibility_one would have to go so far as to consider the
possibility that saucers, if some of the observations are
verified, behave according to a set of physical laws unknown to
us. The simple act of admitting these possibilities just as
possibilities puts us beyond the pale, and we would loose more
in prestige in the scientific community than we could possibly
gain by undertaking the investigation.

But Low offered a way out:

Our study would be conducted almost exclusively by non-believers
who, although they couldn't possibly prove a negative result,
could and probably would add an impressive body of evidence that
there is no reality to the observations. The trick would be, I
think, to describe the project so that, to the public, it would
appear a totally objective study but, to the scientific
community,6 would present the image of a group of nonbelievers
trying their best to be objective, but having an almost zero
expectation of finding a saucer.[27]

Condon had no problem making his negative attitudes towards his
subject matter public. In January 1967, he stated in a lecture
that, "It is my inclination right now to recommend that the
Government get out of this business. My attitude right now is
that there's nothing to it." He added "but I'm not supposed to
reach a conclusion for another year..."[28]

In fact, Condon himself did not participate in the analysis of
the carefully researched case studies that made up the bulk of
the 1000 pages of the Condon Report, "Scientific Study of
Unidentified Flying Objects," released early in 1969. But his
own summary - all that most of the press and public would ever
read - closed the door to any hope of scientific research in the
years to come.

Like the Battelle report, the lengthy body of the study provided
some excellent scientific analysis, verifying the reality of the
UFO phenomena. Investigator William K. Hartman, astronomer from
the University of Arizona, stated in Case 46 (McMinnville, OR)
that, "This is one of the few UFO reports in which all factors
investigated, geometric, psychological, and physical appear to
be consistent with the assertion that an extraordinary flying
object, silvery, metallic, disc-shaped, tens of meters in
diameter, and evidently artificial, flew within the sight of two
witnesses."[29]

Gordon Thayer concluded for one of his cases that, "The
apparently rational, intelligent behavior of the UFO suggests a
mechanical device of unknown origin as the most probable
explanation of this sighting."[30]

For another case, he wrote, "The preponderance of evidence
indicates the possibility of a genuine UFO in this case."[31]

Regardless, Condon's summary stated that, "Nothing has come from
the study of UFOs in the past twenty years that has added to
scientific knowledge...further extensive study of UFOs probably
cannot be justified in the expectation that science will be
advanced thereby."[32]

And the National Academy of Sciences (NAS) endorsed Condon's
recommendation. "A study of UFOs in general is not a promising
way to expand scientific understanding of the phenomena," it
concluded seven weeks later.[33]

Condon added insult to injury by telling The New York Times that
his investigation "was a bunch of damn nonsense," and he was
sorry he "got involved in such foolishness."[34]

The American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics (AIAA),
however, came up with a different conclusion. After spending a
year and a half studying the actual text of the Condon report,
an AIAA panel stated that Condon's summary did not reflect the
conclusions contained in the report but instead "it discloses
many of his[Condon's] personal conclusions." The AIAA found no
basis in the report for Condon's determination that further
studies had no scientific value. These scientists said that, "a
phenomena with such a high ratio of unexplained cases (about
30%) should arouse sufficient curiosity to continue its
study."[35]

Twenty-nine percent of the cases studied in the Condon report
remain unexplained to this day.[36]


Is UFO technology beyond existing scientific knowledge?

In conjunction with the Condon report, the Secretary of the Air
Force announced the termination of Project Blue Book, thereby
claiming no more official involvement with the investigation of
UFOs. In another slap in the face to science, his press release
declared that no sightings "categorized as 'unidentified'
represented technological developments or principles beyond the
range of present scientific knowledge."[37]

However, the existence of advanced technology by UFOs had been
well established through military and pilot reports of their
behavior, beginning with the Twining memo. At the time, the
public did not have access to the documentation now available,
which proves the Air Force contradiction.

In 1952, Project Magnet, a classified Canadian Government study
on UFO reports by Wilbert B. Smith released by the Canadian
government in the 1970's, stated the following:

It can be deduced that the vehicles have the following
significant characteristics. They are a hundred feet or more in
diameter; they can travel at speeds of several thousand miles
per hour; they can reach altitudes well above those which would
support conventional aircraft or balloons; and ample power and
force seem to be available for all required maneuvers. Taking
these factors into account, it is difficult to reconcile this
performance with the capabilities of our technology, and unless
the technology of some terrestrial nation is much more advanced
than is generally known, we are forced to the conclusion that
the vehicles are probably extra-terrestrial, in spite of our
prejudices to the contrary.

Smith concluded:

Such vehicles of necessity must use a technology considerably in
advance of what we have. It is therefore submitted that the next
step in this investigation should be a substantial effort
towards the acquisition of as much as possible of this
technology, which would no doubt be of great value to us.[38]

In 1960, Iowa Congressman Leonard G. Wolf stated his concern in
the Congressional record that UFOs could cause accidental war if
mistaken for Soviet weapons. Gen. L. M. Chassin, NATO
coordinator of Allied Air Services, warned that a global tragedy
might occur "if we persist in refusing to recognize the
existence of these UFO's." Rep. Wolf stated that all defense
personnel "should be told that the UFOs are real and should be
trained to distinguish them - by their characteristic speeds and
maneuvers - from conventional planes and missiles_the American
people must be convinced, by documented facts, that the UFOs
could not be Soviet machines." Since UFOs could be distinguished
from Soviet and US conventional aircraft and weaponry by the
"documented facts" of their characteristic speeds and maneuvers,
General Chassin was making it clear that the objects were
displaying a technology not yet acquired by any country.[39]

UFO technology was undoubtedly of interest to those scientists
working secretly with government agencies. In 1976, two F-4
Phantom crews of the Imperial Iranian Air Force pursued a
brilliant UFO, which ejected a second object. While speeding
toward the F-4, the smaller object disabled the jets weapons
control system and communications at the instant the pilot
attempted to fire a missile.[40]

UFOs shut down and restarted the Kuwait Oil Company's pumping
equipment in 1978, prompting the Kuwaiti government to send a
committee of "experts" from the Kuwait Institute for Scientific
Research to investigate. According to a US State Department
document, "The KISR Committee rejected the notion that the
'UFOS' were espionage devices but remained equivocal about
whether they were of extraterrestrial origin."[41]

The documentation shows that in the decades following the close
of Blue Book, the Air Force continued its UFO investigations
behind closed doors, due to continuing national security
concerns[42] - despite the fact that the Air Force stated in 1969
that Blue Book was closed because "no UFO reported, investigated
and evaluated by the Air Force has ever given any indication of
threat to our national security."[43]

The Air Force claims that this is still the case today, even
though government agencies refuse to comply with Freedom of
Information Act (FOIA) requests on the basis of "national
security." Information that has been obtained under FOIA and
even some official government reports themselves contradict the
government's denial of national security concerns, both before
and after the closure of Blue Book. Recently, military reports
and ongoing government investigations in countries such as
England, France, and Chile also provide contradictory
information.[44]

In 1975, U.S. fighter jets attempted to pursue UFOs as recorded
in North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) logs.[45]

Defense Department reports state that UFOs were pursued by U.S.
Air Force fighter planes after the objects hovered over three
supersensitive nuclear missile launch sites that same year.[46]
Iranian and Peruvian air force planes tried to shoot down
unidentified craft in 1976 and 1980.[47] F-16s from Belgium
armed with missiles pursued a UFO in 1990.[48] Certainly these
incidents were of national security concern in each country over
which they occurred.

The Air Force press release gave a third reason for its
termination of Blue Book: "There has been no evidence indicating
that sightings categorized as `unidentified' are
extraterrestrial vehicles."[49] No alternative explanation for a
very real phenomena was provided to the public. Many qualified
investigators would take issue with the "no evidence"
declaration (as had Air Force and FBI officials), pointing out
that although much more evidence must be acquired, it is proof
that we lack. In any case, scientists are the proper authorities
to make this determination. They must be provided with the
necessary government documents, physical samples and resources
to do so.


Science in default

Less than two weeks after the closure of Project Blue Book, the
American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) held
a symposium on Unidentified Flying Objects which had been
planned for over a year. Astronomers, physicists, sociologists,
psychologists, psychiatrists, and The New York Times science
editor presented papers. Again, James McDonald - who had added
another year of intensive study since his presentation before
Congress - was the strongest voice in laying out details of
unexplained cases and advocating for adequate scientific
research.

He pointed out the clear weaknesses of the Condon study. Claims
of scientific competence were "the single most serious obstacle
that the Air Force has put in the way of progress" with "the
regrettable consequence of denying scientists at large even a
dim notion of the almost incredible nature of some of the more
impressive Air Force-related UFO reports," he said in his
landmark paper, Science in Default: Twenty-two Years of
Inadequate UFO Investigations.[50]


President Carter and NASA

Less than a decade later, President Jimmy Carter attempted to
reopen the door to scientific inquiry into unidentified flying
objects, partly due to his own sighting for which he filed a
report. In July 1977, his Science Advisor Frank Press wrote to
NASA Administrator Robert Frosch recommending that NASA set up a
"a small panel of inquiry" to see if there were any "new
significant findings" since the Condon Report. "The focal point
for the UFO question ought to be NASA," he said Frosch's initial
response was positive and open, and he began the process of
internal review of the request.

The Air Force, which claimed to have had been out of the UFO
business since 1969, seemed to have some concerns. Colonel
Charles E. Senn, Chief of the Community Relations Division at
the Air Force, stated in a September letter to NASA's Lieutenant
General Duward L. Crow, "I sincerely hope that you are
successful in preventing a reopening of UFO investigations."[51]

NASA eventually turned down the White House request from the
President's office. Frosch said that NASA needed "bona fide
physical evidence from credible sources." Due to the absence of
such evidence, he said that, "we have not been able to devise a
sound scientific procedure for investigating these phenomena."
Therefore, no steps would be taken.

Dr. Richard C. Henry, professor of astrophysics at Johns Hopkins
University, was then Deputy Director of NASA's Astrophysics
Division and privy to some of the decision making process. In a
1988 essay for the Journal of Scientific Exploration, Henry
takes issue with Frosch's claim of "an absence of tangible or
physical evidence."[52]He says there was an abundance of
relevant evidence at the time.[53]

Henry says Frosch's statement denying the existence of a sound
scientific protocol was also false. "The National Academy of
Sciences endorsed the Condon study of UFO's, and specifically
endorsed their procedures (protocol). It hardly does for us to
say no sound protocol is possible!" he wrote in a memo to NASA
Space Science Administrator Noel Hinners. "The point is, that to
be meaningful the protocol must cover the possibility that the
UFO phenomenon is due in part to intelligences far beyond our
own."

Although he outlined some possibilities, Henry was not able to
draw a definite conclusion as to why NASA turned down the
request from the President of the United States.[54]


Raising the issue at the United Nations

Between 1975 and 1978, Sir Eric M. Gairy, Prime Minister of
Grenada, proposed to the United Nations General Assembly that
the UN establish "an agency or a department of the United
Nations for undertaking, coordinating, and disseminating the
results of research into Unidentified Flying Objects and related
phenomena."[55]

With his associate Dr. Jacques Vallee and Lt Col. Larry Coyne, a
US Army pilot who almost collided with a UFO in December, 1978,
Hynek asked in a speech to the UN that it "provide a clearing
house procedure whereby the work already going on globally can
be brought together in a serious, concentrated approach to this
most outstanding challenge to current science." He pointed out
that UFOs had been reported in 133 member states of the UN and
that there existed 1,300 cases where "there appears physical
evidence of the immediate presence of the UFO."

Hynek highlighted a new French study, conducted by scientists
from many disciplines in cooperation with the Gendarmerie under
the auspices of the Centre National d'=C9tudes Spatiales (CNES),
the French equivalent of NASA. The case studies were "exemplary
and far superior to the previous studies in other countries_the
implications for science and the public at large of this French
investigation are profound," he said.

Hynek's remarks reflected the sad state of affairs for many
American scientists who dared to take an interest in UFOs. These
individuals were associated with "large and prestigious
scientific organizations, both government and private" which
"are silent or even officially derisive about the UFO
phenomenon," Hynek told the United Nations. Those with "intimate
knowledge of the UFO phenomenon are restrained by organizational
policy to remain officially silent about their interest and in
private work with UFO matters."[56]

Mercury astronaut Gordon Cooper also asked the United Nations
for "a top level, coordinated program to scientifically collect
and analyze data from all over earth_"[57] But like the
Congressional hearings of 1968, the proposals never went
anywhere.


Recent developments and high-level foreign interest

Regardless of the consistent disregard by key U.S. institutions,
the UFO problem would not go away. In the 1980's, two
extraordinary cases involving the landing of objects leaving
physical evidence were documented by military personnel and
scientists in England[58] and France.[59]

"This should be the subject of rigorous scientific investigation
and not the subject of rubbishing by tabloid newspapers," said
England's former Chief of the Defense Staff and five-star
Admiral Lord Hill-Norton in 2000. He was responding to his
government's public dismissal of the multiple-witnessed landing
of a glowing triangular craft that left three depressions at
Bentwaters Air Force base in 1980.[60] Deputy Base Commander Lt.
Col. Charles I. Halt provided a detailed description of the
objects, the landing, and the physical evidence in a classified
Air Force memo.[61]

Events in the U.S. were also significant, although barely
noticed by the media. In March 1997, hundreds of people across
Arizona reported seeing huge triangular objects, hovering
silently in the night sky. One series of lights were caught on
videotape. Following a thwarted effort by Phoenix City
Councilwoman Frances Barwood to investigate, a U.S District
court demanded a search for information from the Department of
Defense about these aircraft. Despite irrefutable documentation
of the event, DoD responded that it could not find anything
about the existence of the triangles. This heightened citizen's
fears: How could our government not know about something huge
flying low over major population centers?[62] Even Senator John
McCain acknowledged that this incident, known as the "Phoenix
Lights," has "never been fully explained."[63]

In 2000, four policemen at different locations in St. Claire
County, Illinois, witnessed a similar craft exhibiting extreme
rapid motion, again unacknowledged by nearby Scott Air Force
Base or the Federal Aviation Administration.[64]

Dr. Peter A. Sturrock, emeritus professor of applied physics at
Stanford University and emeritus director of Stanford's Center
for Space Science and Astrophysics, has taken the lead in
reactivating a scientific evaluation of the UFO phenomenon. He
conducted a 1975 survey of the American Astronomical Society and
found that 75% of the respondents wished to see more information
on the subject published in scientific journals. Due to the fact
that the journals rejected papers on the UFO problem out of
hand, Sturrock founded the Society for Scientific Exploration
(SSE) and its Journal of Scientific Exploration (JSE), which
began publication in 1987. With associates in more than 40
countries, the JSE provides a forum for the presentation and
debate of topics that are not otherwise discussed in scientific
societies.[65]

Sturrock is perhaps one of the most eminent scientists ever to
apply the conventional scientific method to the UFO phenomenon.
He won the 1986 Hale Prize in Solar Physics from the American
Astronomical Society, the Arctowski medal in 1990 from the
National Academy of Sciences, and the 1992 Space Sciences Award
from the 40,000 member American Institute of Aeronautics and
Astronautics for his "major contribution to the fields of
geophysics, solar physics and astrophysics, leadership in the
space science community, and dedication to the pursuit of
knowledge."

In 1997, Sturrock initiated and directed a four-day workshop at
the Pocantico Conference Center in Tarrytown, New York, funded
by philanthropist Laurance Rockefeller. The purpose of the
conference was to rigorously review purported physical evidence
associated with UFO reports, in order to assess whether the
further acquisition and investigation of such evidence is likely
to help solve the UFO problem.

Seven investigators presented cases with photographic evidence;
luminosity estimates; radar evidence; interference with
automobile functioning; interference with aircraft equipment;
apparent gravitational or inertial effects; ground traces;
injuries to vegetation; physiological effects on witnesses; and
analysis of debris.

A review panel of nine distinguished scientists from diverse
fields (mostly "decidedly skeptical agnostics" who did not have
prior involvement with UFOs, according to Sturrock) reviewed the
presentations and provided a carefully worded summary. The panel
was "not convinced that any of the evidence involved currently
unknown physical processes or pointed to the involvement of an
extraterrestrial intelligence." Continued careful evaluation of
UFO reports was recommended. "New data, scientifically acquired
and analyzed" could provide useful information allowing physical
scientists "to contribute to the resolution of the UFO problem."

In contradiction to the Condon summary, the panel concluded that
the UFO problem is not simple, and "whenever there are
unexplained observations, there is the possibility that
scientists will learn something new by studying these
observations."[66]


Pilots continue to report sightings of unidentified aerial
phenomena

A few years later, Dr. Richard Haines, a retired senior
aerospace scientist from NASA-Ames Research Center and formerly
NASA's Chief of the Space Human Factors Office, authored a
report documenting over one hundred cases of pilot encounters
with unidentified aerial phenomena (UAP) that raise safety
concerns, including fifty-six near misses.

Haines had spent thirty years developing a 3,400 case,
international database of first hand sightings by commercial,
military and private pilots. His independent study "Aviation
Safety in America - A Previously Neglected Factor" also draws on
FAA, NTSB and NASA files.[67]

With an international team
of scientists and aviation specialists, he recently founded the National
Aviation Reporting Center on
Anomalous Phenomena (NARCAP), which facilitates pilot reporting and studies=

a wide range of aerial
phenomena impacting aviation safety.

Pilots represent the world's most experienced and credible observers of air=

traffic with extensive
specialized training. In the study, they report sightings of varied
geometric forms displaying colors and
lights and conducting high-speed maneuvers that are inconsistent with known=

aircraft or natural
phenomena.

Pilots and crew members report that the objects approached and
paced their aircraft at relatively near distances, disabling on
board instrumentation. Sometimes speeding objects narrowly
avoided a head-on collision by a sudden, 90-degree turn. On
other occasions, pilots made sudden, evasive changes in their
flight paths due to the object's proximity or dynamic behavior.
Cockpit distraction is always a concern "when the crew is faced
with an extremely bizarre, unexpected and prolonged luminous
and/or solid phenomena cavorting near their aircraft," says the
report.

Haines says that the hundreds of UAP reports he has analyzed,
some dating back to the 1940's, "appear to suggest that they are
associated with a very high degree of intelligence, deliberate
flight control, and advanced energy management."

The study documents the ridicule and "psychological negative
feedback system" that pilots have faced since the 1950's due the
official debunking policy. Most pilots never file reports at
all.[68]

In 1986, veteran Japan Airlines Captain Kenju Terauchi and his
crew encountered a huge craft over Alaska reported in the media
and investigated by the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA).
"Most unexpectedly two space ships stopped in front of our face,
shooting off lights," reported Terauchi. "The inside cockpit
shined brightly and I felt warm in the face." Terauchi's
reporting of the incident resulted in his temporary dismissal,
despite the FAA determination that he was stable, competent and
professional.[69]

John Callahan, former Division Chief of the Accidents and
Investigations Branch of the FAA in Washington, D.C., has in his
possession the radar recorded data, air traffic control voice
transcripts, FAA report, and computer printouts of the Terauchi
event. He says he attended a meeting about the incident with the
FBI, the CIA, and President Reagan's Scientific Study team in
which he was told, "this event never happened, we were never
here and you are all sworn to secrecy."[70]

"I saw a UFO chase a Japanese 747 across the sky for over half
an hour on radar. And it's faster than anything that I know of
in our Government," said the high level FAA official in 2001.
"It still bothers me that I've seen all this, I know all this,
and I'm walking around with the answer, and nobody wants to ask
the question to get the answer."[71]


International openness vs. U.S. secrecy

Other countries, whose governments are open about their interest
in getting the answer, have challenged the policy of official
secrecy in the United States.

The French space agency CNES has been the only government agency
to conduct a consistent, non-military investigation into UFO
incidents for over twenty years. It's project first called
GEPAN[13] (Groupe d'Etudes des Phenomenes Aerospatiaux Non-
identifies) was renamed SEPRA (Service d'Expertise des
Phenomenes de Rentrees Atmospheriques) in 1988.[72]

In 1999, four-star General Bernard Norlain, former commander of
the French Tactical Air Force, and other retired generals and
admirals from the French Institute of Higher Studies for
National Defense; Jean Jacques Velasco, head of SEPRA; Andre
Lebeau, former head of CNES, and a team of scientists and
engineers, released an historic study titled UFOs and Defense:
What Should We Prepare For? The group called themselves the
COMETA, meaning "Committee for In-depth Studies."[73]

The group spent three years examining nearly 500 international
aeronautical sightings and radar/visual cases, and previously
undisclosed pilots' reports. Their study drew on data from
official sources, government authorities, and the Air Forces of
other countries.

Confirming the aviation safety concerns of the Haines study, one
multi-witness case presented by the study involved a 1994 Air
France sighting of an object that instantaneously disappeared,
as recorded on radar; another described a 1995 Aerolineas
Argentinas Boeing 727 encounter with a luminous object that
extinguished airport lights as the plane prepared to land.

The authors' note that about 5 percent of sightings on which
there is solid documentation cannot be easily attributed to
earthly sources, such as secret military exercises. This 5
percent seem "to be completely unknown flying machines with
exceptional performances that are guided by a natural or
artificial intelligence," they say. Some scientists have
developed theoretical models for travel from one solar system to
another and for technology that could be used to propel the
vehicles, the report points out.[74]

The best explanation is "the extraterrestrial hypothesis," the
report concludes. Although not categorically proven, "strong
presumptions exist in its favor and if it is correct, it is
loaded with significant consequences."

To address the problem, the COMETA urged international action.
It recommended that France establish "sectorial cooperation
agreements with interested European and foreign countries" on
the matter of UFOs. The European Union should undertake
diplomatic action with the United States "exerting useful
pressure to clarify this crucial issue, which must fall within
the scope of political and strategic alliances." The group
openly challenged US denial of the reality of UFOs.[75]

In 1997, the Chilean government formed the Committee for the
Study of Anomalous Aerial Phenomena (CEFAA) under the direction
of the Ministerial Department of Civil Aeronautics (DGAC), the
equivalent of our FAA. Official observations of anomalous aerial
phenomena at a remote Chilean airport prompted this action,
following official acknowledgement that unidentified objects
were flying over national territory.

The agency uses "serious, objective and scientific analysis to
determine if these phenomena have meant any risk to the security
of aerial operations," says CEFAA executive secretary Gustavo
Rodr=EDguez Navarro, a retired air traffic controller.[76]

Like the members of the COMETA, Ricardo Bermudez Sanhuesa,
General of Chile's Air Brigade and President of the CEFAA,
believes that international cooperation is important "to provide
an incentive for universities and scientific organizations to
work in multidisciplinary teams in all the branches of [14] this
science" and to establish "a uniform method of investigation
processes and analysis." General Bermudez says that CEFAA
contacted the United States government on two occasions but was
ignored each time.[77]

Peru has also begun conducting official, yet public, UFO
investigations. In December 2001, the Peruvian Air Force created
the Office for the Investigation of Anomalous Activity, under
the direction of Air Force Commander Jose Luis Chamorro.

"There are several mysteries that we believe are highly
important and which merit our full attention," Chamorro says.
"If we can arrive at definitive conclusions, our work will be
highly beneficial to Peru and all of humanity."

Unexplainable events in the sky are frequent in Peru, Chamorro
says. Out of hundreds of calls coming into his office every
month, about a dozen are credible sightings with no easy
explanation. Chamorro told the Miami Herald last September that
a video taken in Chulucanas, Piura in late 2001 shows a huge
ship sitting in the sky for nearly two hours. "The ship made no
noise and did not move. You can see the shape, which includes
even windows," he said.[78]


Scientists call for systematic investigation

Given the irrefutable evidence of extraordinary objects in the
skies around planet Earth, and the high standing of those who
have requested further scientific investigation, what stands in
the way? And what can be done to overcome the obstacles?

According to Peter Sturrock, scientists face a lack of sustained
funding for research; harbor a false assumption that there is no
data or evidence; have a perception that the topic is "not
respectable;" and believe that the Condon report settled the
question. Despite overwhelming public demand - which often
drives scientific research - scientists simply aren't motivated.

Sturrock says that the single biggest obstacle to the study of
UFOs has been the paucity of available physical evidence. To
remedy this situation, he proposes improving techniques for the
retrieval of physical evidence through field investigations and
its laboratory analysis; planned experiments in the lab testing
physical effects; systematic cataloguing of case reports and a
search for patterns in the data; and the development of theories
based on the facts using scientific inference.

"In principle, we can prove a hypothesis not only by finding
strong evidence in its favor, but also by finding strong
evidence against every other possibility," he says.[79] This is
the approach taken by the French COMETA group in the
determination of their hypothesis in 1999.

The need for physical evidence points to the critical nature of
a renewed FOIA initiative into Project Moon Dust and Operation
Blue Fly, the secret Air Force units which retrieved objects of
unknown origin, as revealed in government documents released in
the 1990's. So far, scientists have been denied the fragments
and the final determinations of these investigations.[80]

Because the UFO problem makes them uncomfortable, scientists are
prone to interpreting the issue theoretically and then giving a
theoretical reason for dismissing it. For example, Astronomer
Francis Drake stated in 1998 that if UFO reports are real, they
must be due to extraterrestrial spacecraft. However,
interstellar travel is impossible, therefore the reports must be
discounted. This argument boils down to: It cannot happen;
therefore it does not happen. "In normal scientific research,
observational evidence takes precedence over theory," says
Sturrock, "if it does happen, it can happen."[81]

Computer scientist and astrophysicist Jacques Vallee, who has
traveled the world studying the UFO problem for decades and was
a close associate of Hynek, points out that a key problem is
that scientists need journals and "unbiased venues" other than
JSE to debate this increasingly deep and complex problem.[82]
"New radical hypotheses may be needed to study the problem,
beyond the limited polarization between skepticism and belief in
'extraterrestrials,'" he says.[83]

Dr. Bernard Haisch, Director of the California Institute for
Physics and Astrophysics and author of over a hundred published
papers, agrees. "I propose that true skepticism is called for
today: neither the gullible acceptance of true belief nor the
closed-minded rejection of the scoffer masquerading as the
skeptic." Haisch was the editor of the JSE for twelve years.
"Any scientist who has not read a few serious books and articles
presenting actual UFO evidence should out of intellectual
honesty refrain from making scientific pronouncements," he says.
"To look at the evidence and go away unconvinced is one thing.
To not look at the evidence and be convinced against it
nonetheless is another. That is not science. Do your
homework!"[84]

The COMETA believes the central barrier to scientific progress
lies in the lap of the United States. The world's superpower
ignores the research and ridicules the UFO phenomenon. "Only
increasing pressure from public opinion, possibly supported by
the results of independent researchers, by more or less
calculated disclosures, or by a sudden rise in UFO
manifestations, might perhaps induce U.S. leaders and persons of
authority to change their stance," the group states.

The French group notes that conventional scientists are burdened
by the prevailing concept of "anthropocentric humanism"- the
belief that man is "the best nature can produce in this small
corner of the galaxy" and remains the sole controller of his
destiny. To acknowledge the possible existence of beings outside
our planet with vastly superior technological capabilities and
scientific understanding is both "frightening and unacceptable"
and would leave us feeling infantile. "The social position of
the scientific elite would be considerably compromised," their
report says.[85]

A more contemporary - perhaps radical by some standards -
  perspective is provided by Johns Hopkins astrophysicist Richard
C. Henry. "We humans are newborn babes_our Earth is merely a
minute portion of an inconceivably vast universe [of which] we
are only an utterly unimportant element," he says. It is
possible that other civilizations are visiting us, for reasons
we can't conceive. He has a message to the scientists of our
planet: "Collect and collate evidence of anomalous phenomena!
What kind of a civilization would not collect and collate
evidence of anomalous phenomena? Only a foolish and short-
sighted civilization indeed!"[86]


It's time for a scientific study of UFOs

Despite intense public interest and the weight of fifty years of
evidence provided by scientists, pilots, military officers and
government agencies around the world, there has been no
independent, federally financed scientific research conducted on
these phenomena since the flawed and biased 1969 Condon report.
We are long overdue for an ongoing, comprehensive study in the
United States that leading scientists have been requesting for
decades.

The national security argument is no longer acceptable as a
justification for U.S. government withholding of reports of
events decades old. If sources and methods need protecting, this
is legitimate. If information on Soviet objects or man-made
technology is sensitive, this is also understandable. Neither of
these aspects is of concern to the matter at hand. Scientists
must be able to access all other information and any physical
samples in the possession of U.S. government agencies. We have
evidence of objects and bizarre anomalies in our skies that
appear not to be natural or man made. This is a remarkable state
of affairs. Clearly, it is worthy of the highest level of
scientific exploration.

American scientists stand ready and waiting to take this on, if
only the resources are provided. The public appears ready to
support the research with its tax dollars. It is clear that the
policies and attitudes of certain government officials and
agencies must change so that the investigation into these
mysterious phenomena can "pass through nature's looking glass"
along with the other great discoveries of contemporary science.


Notes

1 Overbye, Dennis; "More Sci Than Fi, Physicists Create
Antimatter" New York Times, Sept. 9, 2002.

2 Roper Number: C205-008232 , "Americans Beliefs and personal
Experiences, UFOs and Extraterrestrial Life," September 2002 by
RoperASW via OmniTel, on 1,021 male and female adults.

3 Headquarters 4602D AISS, Draft "Guide to Identification,
Unidentified Flying Objects" Date unknown. Contained in Clifford
S. Stone, UFOs are Real (SPI Books, 1997).

4 For starters: Edward J.Ruppelt, The Report on Unidentified
Flying Objects (Garden City, N.Y.: Doubleday, 1956); J. Allen
Hynek, The UFO Experience: A Scientific Inquiry (Marlowe &
Company, NY, 1972,1998); David Jacobs, The UFO Controversy in
America (Bloomington: Indiana University Press, 1975); the files
of Project Blue Book, available through the National Archives or
in Brad Steiger, editor Project Blue Book: The Top Secret UFO
Findings Revealed, (Balantine Books, NY,1976); Clifford E.
Stone, UFOs are Real (SPI Books, 1997); Peter A. Sturrock, The
UFO Enigma: A New Review of the Physical Evidence (Warner Books,
NY, 1999); UFOs and Defense: What are we prepared for? The
French Association COMETA, study from the Institute of Higher
Studies for National Defence, July 1999.

5 The French Association COMETA, study from the Institute of
Higher Studies for National Defence, July 1999, estimates 5% of
sightings are true UFOs. Other estimates are higher. In 1985, J.
Allen Hynek put the figure at 20% (interview by Dennis Stacy.)
Peter Sturrock points out that 29% of the cases in the Condon
report of 1969 remain unidentified today. It is impossible to
know the exact figure.

6 General Nathan F. Twining to Commander, Air Material Command,
"AMC Opinion concerning `Flying Discs'" 23 September 1947
(Contained in Edwin U. Condon, Project Director Scientific Study
of Unidentified Flying Objects, 1969) p. 894-95.

7 Ruppelt, pp.62-63; Hynek UFO Experience p.173.

8 W.P. Keay, FBI Memorandum "Flying Saucers" July 29, 1952
(contained in Bruce Maccabee, UFO FBI Connection: The Secret
History of the Government's Cover-Up (Llewellyn Publications, MN
2000).

9 W.P. Keay, FBI Memorandum "Flying Saucers" October 27, 1952
(Maccabee, Ibid).

10 H. Marshall Chadwell, memorandum for Director of Central
Intelligence, Dec 2 1952.

11 H. Marshall Chadwell, memo for Director of Central
Intelligence "Flying Saucers" 11 Sept. 1952, p.3-4.

12 "Unidentified Flying Objects" 4 Dec 1952 IAC-M-90.

13 H. Marshall Chadwell, memorandum for Director of Central
Intelligence "Unidentified Flying Objects" Dec. 10 1952.

14 F .C. Durant, Report of Meetings of Scientific Advisory Panel
on Unidentified Flying Objects, Convened by Office of Scientific
Intelligence, CA January 14-18, 1953.

15 Hynek, UFO Report p.23.

16 J Allen Hynek, "Special Report on Conferences with
Astronomers on Identified Flying Objects" to Air Technical
Intelligence Center, Wright Patterson Air Force Base, August 6,
1952, p.18, 20.

17 Hynek, UFO Experience p.169.

18 Ruppelt pp 160-167; Peter Carlson, "Alien Armada!50 Years
Ago, Unidentified Flying Objects From Way Beyond the Beltway
Seized the Capital's Imagination" Washington Post, July 21, 2002

19 Project Blue Book Special Report No. 14 "Analysis of
Unidentified Flying Objects," Project No. 10073 (Air technical
Intelligence Center, Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio, 5
May 1955); Hynek, UFO Report, p.272.

20 Project Blue Book Special Report No. 14 "Analysis of
Unidentified Flying Objects."

21 Air Force Releases Study on Unidentified Flying Objects,
Department of Defense, Office of Public Information, Washington
DC, No. 1053-55 Oct. 25, 1955.

22 Ibid. p. 274-275.

23 Hearings before the Committee on Science and Astronautics,
U.S. House of Representatives, Ninetieth Congress "Symposium on
Unidentified Flying Objects" July 29, 1968 (U.S. Government
Printing Office, Washington 1968) p.1.

24 Ibid. p. 32; 83.

25 Ibid. p. 121;124.

26 Ibid. p. 14-15.

27 Robert J. Low, memo to E.James Archer and Thurston E. Manning
"Some Thoughts on the UFO Project," August 9, 1966. Contained in
Marcia S. Smith with George D. Havas, revisions and updates,
Science Policy Research Division, The UGO Enigma Congressional
Research Service, June 20, 1983; Appendix C.

28 John Fuller, "Flying Saucer Fiasco," Look, May 14, 1968

29 Condon, Edward U., Project Director and Daniel S. Gillmor,
Editor Scientific Study of Unidentified Flying Objects (Bantam,
NY, 1969) p.407.

30 Ibid. p. 164.

31 Ibid. p. 248.

32 Ibid p. 1.

33 Review of the University of Colorado Report on Unidentified
Flying Objects by a Panel of the National Academy of Sciences,
1969.

34 "Air Force Closes Study of UFO's" New York Times, Dec. 18, 1969.

35 Kuettner, J.P. et al "UFO: An Appraisal of the Problem, A
Statement by the UFO Subcommittee of the AIAA" Astronautics and
Aeronautics, 8, No. 11.

36 Peter Sturrock., interview for "Out of the Blue," documentary
film produced and directed by James Fox, Tim Coleman, Boris
Zuboff, 2000

37 Office of Assistant Secretary of Defense (Public Affairs)
News Release No. 1077-69 "Air Force to Terminate Project Blue
Book" Washington, DC December 17, 1969.

38 Wilbert B. Smith "Project Magnet Report" (Canadian Department
of Communications file 5010-4 vol.5) 1952, pp.10-11 (contained
in Stone, UFOs are Real).

39 Leslie Kean,"UFO theorists gain support abroad, but
repression at home," Boston Globe, May 21, 2000.

40 JCS Communication Center of the USDAQ Tehran Message 230630Z,
September 1976, released through the Department of Defense.
Also, Henry S. Shields "Now You See It, Now You Don't" Unites
States Air Force Security Service, MIJI Quarterly Report 3-78,
October 1978.

41 US State Department Cable, Jan. 29, 1979; (contained in Stone).

42 General Carroll H.Bolender, USAF memo, October 20, 1969.

43 AF News Release No. 1077-69, op cit.

44 England: Nick Pope, former Ministry of Defense official, Open
Skies, Closed Minds (Dell, 2000) and interview with former
Ministry of Defense Chief Lord-Hill Norton for "Out of the Blue"
produced and directed by James Fox, Tim Coleman, Boris Zuboff.
France: see COMETA report "UFO's and Defense: What Are we
Prepared For?" and work of SEPRA at CNES. Chile: work of CEFAA.

45 24th NORAD Region Senior Director's Log, November 1975; NORAD
Command Director's Log, November, 1975.

46 Ward Sinclair and Art Harris, "UFOs visited U.S. bases,
reports say" Washington Post, 1979.

47 Iran: JCS Communication Center and Sheilds, op.cit. Peru:
Department of Defense, Joint Chiefs of Staff message, June 3
1980. A round UFO initially hovering over air base was chased by
an SU-22 and fired upon at close range but the UFO out-ran the
plane.

48 Authorized by Belgian Ministry of Defense, Paris-Match, July
5, 1990. Radar-images of UFO of March 30 and 31, 1990.
Interviews with Colonel De Brouwer, Chief of Operations, Belgium
Air Force. In three cases, when pilots achieved radar lock on
with UFO, UFO drastically changed its behavior with a sudden
dive at very high speed with no sonic boom.

49 AF News Release No. 1077-69, op cit.

50 Carl Sagan and Thornton Page, editors UFO's - A Scientific
Debate (Norton Library by arrangement with Cornell University
Press, 1974).

51 Charles E. Senn, letter to Duward L. Crow, September 1, 1977

52 Richard C. Henry, "UFOs and NASA" Journal of Scientific
Exploration (Vol.2, No. 2 pp.93-142, 1988); letters (except
Senn) included in appendices.

53 A 1968 State Department telegram (released under a FOIA
request for Project Moon Dust and Operation Blue Fly) verifies
that samples from objects of unknown origin were sent to NASA.
It states that divers found a metal "dome-shaped object" nose
down on the ocean floor off Cape Town, "scorched under
tremendous heat."

According to the document, NASA found that the object consisted
of "almost pure aluminum" but could offer no "clue" as to its
origin or function

54 Henry, op.cit.

55 Smith with Havas, The UGO Enigma Congressional Research
Service op. cit. p. 100.

56 J. Allen Hynek, speech to the United Nations, Nov. 27th 1978.
Astrophycisist and field investigator Jacques Vallee and Lt Col.
Larry Coyne, a US Army pilot who almost collided with a UFO,
also presented statements.

57 L. Gordon Cooper, letter to Ambassador Griffith, Mission of
Grenada to the United Nations, Nov. 9, 1978

58 USAF Lt. Col. Charles I. Halt, Bentwaters Base Commander to
British Ministry of Defence, memorandum "Unexplained Lights"
Jan.13, 1980.

59 Jean-Jacques Velasco, "Report on the Analysis of Anomalous
Physical Traces: The 1981 Trans-en-Provence UFO Case" Journal of
Scientific Exploration (Vol. 4, No. 1, 1990) Investigated by
GEPAN which later became SEPRA of CNES. See also the French
COMETA report "UFOs and Defense: What Are We Prepared For?"
July, 1999.

60 Lord Hill Norton, interview for "Out of the Blue " op.cit.
For a first hand account of this incident, see

61 Charles I. Halt, Lt. Col, USAF, Memo, Department of the Air
Force, Headquarters 81st Combat Support Group, "Unexplained
Lights," Jan. 13, 1981

62 Associated Press, "Judge orders U.S. to provide additional
data in UFO case" Feb. 17, 2000; Kean, Boston Globe, op.cit.
Hynek's 1985 essay "The Roots of Complacency" provided at the
end of this report describes a similar series of events that
occurred in New York State in the 1980's.

63 FoxNews, Feb 29, 2000.

64 Stephanie Simon, Folks Know Truth Is Out There, but Flying
Object Is Still Unidentified" Los Angeles Times, January 18,
2000; Heather Ratcliffe, "UFO sighting brings media attention,
investigative team to Southern Illinois" Post-Dispatch, January
12, 2000.

65 Peter A. Sturrock, The UFO Enigma: A New Review of the
Physical Evidence (Warner Books, NY, 1999).

66 Ibid. Members of the Scientific Review Panel: V. R. Eshleman
(Co-Chair), T. E. Holzer (Co-Chair), J. R. Jokipii, F. Louange,
H. J. Melosh, J. J. Papike, G. Reitz, C. R. Tolbert, and B.
Veyret. Investigators: R. F. Haines, I. von Ludwiger, M.
Rodeghier, J. F. Schuessler, E. Strand, M. D. Swords, J. F.
Vallee, and J-J. Velasco

67 Richard F. Haines, "Aviation Safety in America - A Previously
Neglected Factor" NARCAP Report 01-2000, October 15, 2000; also
see Leslie Kean, "Pilot encounters with UFOs: New study
challenges secrecy and denial," The Providence Journal, May 3,
2001.

68 Ibid.

69 UPI, "JAL Airliner Sighting Over Alaska," 1986; For a
detailed research report with additional references on this case
see Bruce Maccabee, "The Fantastic Flight Of JAL 1628"

70 John Callahan, "UFO incident involving a Japanese Boeing 747-
- November 1986;" presentation at George Washington University
symposium, Nov. 8, 2002.

71 John Callahan, interview for Disclosure (Crossing Point Inc,
2001).

72 See Sturrock "The GEPAN/SEPRA Project" by F. Louange and J.
J. Velasco, p. 131-136.

73 COMETA (an association) "UFOs and Defense: What Should We
Prepare For?" First released in French in a special issue of the
magazine VSD, July 1999. Other members are: General Denis Letty
of the Air Force, former auditor (FA) of IHEDN, General Bruno
Lemoine of the Air Force (FA of IHEDN); Admiral Marc Merlo (FA
of IHEDN); Michel Algrin, Doctor in Political Sciences, attorney
at law (FA of IHEDN); General Pierre Bescond, engineer for
armaments (FA of IHEDN); Denis Blancher, Chief National Police
superintendant at the Ministry ot the Interior; Christian
Marchal, chief engineer of the national "corps des Mines",
Research Director at the "National Office of Aeronautical
Research" (ONERA); General Alain Orszag, Ph.D. in physics,
engineer for armaments. Other contributors include Francois
Louange, President of Fleximage, specialist of photo analysis;
General Joseph Domange of the Air Force, general delegate of the
Association of auditors at IHEDN.

74 Ibid. This has been established by numerous contemporary
physicists, such as best-selling authors Dr. Brian Greene and
Dr. Michio Kaku.

75 Ibid.

76 Gustavo Rodr=EDguez Navarro, personal interview with Leslie
Kean, Dec 31, 2000.

77 Ricardo Bermudez Sanhuesa, personal interview with Leslie
Kean, Jan. 31, 2001. According to Bermudez, in 1998, the CEFAA
contacted the U.S. Embassy in Chile expressing the Committee's
interest in working with a U.S. agency "to share experiences,
policies, procedures, etc. regarding this topic." In July, 2000,
the CEFAA sent the U.S. Embassy a request for consultation with
the Pentagon. "Both requests went unanswered," General Bermudez
said.

78 Lucien O. Chauvin, "Peruvians seek discovery and profit in
UFOs" Miami Herald, Sept. 28, 2002.

79 Sturrock, op.cit.,p. 163.

80 SCI FI Channel, Press release, Oct. 22, 2002. "The SCI FI
Channel has joined with John Podesta, President Clinton's former
chief of staff, to call for more declassification of government
records. As part of its advocacy effort, SCI FI is backing a
Freedom of Information Act initiative to obtain government
records on cases involving retrieval of objects of unknown
origin by the secret Air Force operations Project Moon Dust and
Operation Blue Fly. Assisting SCI FI in its FOIA effort is the
Washington, D.C. law firm of Lobel, Novins and Lamont."

81 Sturrock, op. cit., p.160.

82 Jacques Vallee, Revelations: Alien Contact and Human
Deception (Ballantine Books, NY, 1991) p.284.

83 Jacques Vallee, "Report from the Field: Scientific Issues in
the UFO Phenomenon," presentation at George Washington
University symposium, Nov. 8, 2002. For two papers by Vallee,
see JSE Vol. 12, no. 3 (1998) "Estimates of Optical Power Output
in six cases of unexplained aerial objects with defined
luminosity characteristics," pp. 345-358 and "Physical Analyses
in ten cases of unexplained aerial objects with material
samples," pp. 359-376.

84 Bernard Haisch, message on www.ufoskeptic.org "An Information
site on the UFO phenomenon by and for professional scientists."
September, 2002.

85 COMETA, op.cit.

86 Richard C. Henry, "Human Beings in the Galaxy: _or Babes in
the Woods," presentation at George Washington University
symposium, Nov. 8, 2002.


Appendix

"The Roots of Complacency"
An unpublished essay by Dr. J. Allen Hynek

Dr. J. Allen Hynek left this essay on a diskette at the home of
his friend Dr. Willy Smith on August 30, 1985. At the time, he
was investigating the Hudson Valley "boomerang" sightings in New
York, and this was a draft preface for a book about them. A few
weeks after writing this piece, Hynek went into surgery. His
health rapidly declined in the ensuing months, and he died in
April, 1986. The investigation into the Hudson Valley sightings
was published in the 1987 book NIGHT SIEGE, authored by Hynek,
Bob Pratt and Philip J. Imbrogno. As detailed in the book, the
first incident was reported on December 31, 1982, and the
sightings continued until the book's publication, with a
concentration of incidents during the summer of 1984. "The Roots
of Complacency" (as Hynek himself titled it) is quite different
from the preface to NIGHT SIEGE in its passion and intimate,
unedited style. In what appears to be his last essay, Hynek
questions the underlying cause of the very dilemma that this
paper addresses.

- L.K.

Something truly astonishing happened..... Not far from New York
City, along the Hudson Valley, as hundreds of astonished people
looked up, many driving along the Taconic Parkway, they saw
something no one had ever seen before.

Some called it a "Space-ship from outer space" (for want of
anything better) but it was generally described by numbers of
competent, professional persons as startlingly brilliant lights,
in the form of a "V," or Boomerang, silent, slowly-moving, and
very large close-by object. It has often popularly been called
the "Westchester (County) Boomerang."

The world has never known about this, even though the event
happened not once but several times, and over the course of
several years. To all intents and purposes, this was a non-
event. The media across the world has remained dumb. Local
papers, radios and TV's, it is true, did momentarily carry spots
along with the daily news, but there the news just vanished.

How is it possible that in the United States, where even trivial
events are often flashed across the world, only one TV and radio
network carried an account of this utterly astounding event?
Far, far lesser stories are spewed forth across the world!

Could it possibly be that the whole thing just never happened?
No: many times there was good, but extremely local, media
coverage; many hundreds have personally attested to us, and to
many others, that the "Westchester Boomerang" was most
undeniably, very truly real to them. Furthermore, many witnesses
at a given time were geographically separate, and unknown to
each 24 other. Cars along the Taconic Parkway, a well traveled
highway, stopped, and passengers looked in amazement, many
frightened and bewildered at the spectacle.

Police department "blotters" proved that many calls came to
several local police stations, and we have tape recordings of a
number of the police involved. The Boomerang was undeniably
real; it was not a chimera!

Yes, something astonishing transpired, but was no one "minding
the store," was everyone asleep at the switch? What about law
enforcement agencies (whose duty is certainly to alert and
assist when something amazing is afoot); what about civilian and
military personnel?

When hundreds of largely professional, affluent people, in
suburban areas, are astonished, awestruck, and many frightened
by what they could only regard as a very bizarre event, would
this not at least warrant and bring forth some comment from the
nation's media? And what about law officers, government
officials and... what of the FAA which supposedly monitors the
airwaves over which the "Boomerang" repeatedly flew, and thus
constituted a serious hazard, especially over the Taconic
Parkway?

And what of scientists, to whom these events should have been of
breathtaking scientific concern? But nothing... except, oh yes,
a writer so inept at his task that not once did he check, even
briefly, the voluminous tapes and other material amassed by the
present authors: a remarkable example of investigative
reporting.

His conclusion: the Boomerang was caused by nothing more than a
flight of small planes flying in formation, a totally untenable
conclusion in view of the facts. It would appear that we really
have TWO astounding stories, rather than just one... different
but related... and equally incomprehensible: the story of the
low-flying luminous Boomerang (in itself which could rank high
in the annals of science fiction... if it were science fiction!)
and the second, a totally unaccountable dereliction of duty (and
there seems to be no other word for it), a complete indifference
to accountability.

It was a malady which appeared to plunge all who encountered it,
EXCEPT the witnesses, into a deadly stupor. Such a malady, or
perhaps a virulent virus of apathy and indifference to duty,
could immobilize cities and a whole country. Of course, we don't
know what the Boomerang was really about, for:

-- the Police and other law enforcement officers were derelict
and failed in their duty to assist the many who called [in] fear
and danger, as well as in awe and wonder.

-- the FAA utterly failed to be concerned for air safety, flight
rules, navigation lights, when told that some utterly strange
and possibly menacing object was cruising close over streets and
houses.

-- the Military was derelict by not attending to public safety
and matters of National Defense (the country could have been
subtly invaded!)

-- the Scientists failed to uphold their "Hippocratic" oath of
science: they were derelict in following the quest [of] an
outstanding mystery.

-- the media, well, where were they? Truly derelict. Always avid
news hounds, rushing to their typewriters or microphones to rush
the news to the world (good, bad and trivial), but where were
they? Hardly any of the 50 States heard the Boomerang story.

Why? Utterly indifferent and apathetic? If so, why?

Of the two stories, that of the Boomerang is by far the more
directly told. Bizarre and fantastic though it may be (and is)
it merely needs competent retelling. The facts are on record.
 From the hundreds of cassette tapes in the thousands of
statements made by witnesses, the Boomerang is a matter of
record. But the second story, well, that is another matter.

This story is not at all directly told. Here there are no
cassette tapes, no clear cut descriptions, and no policeman, no
scientist, no military man, no media person, no FAA has recorded
why they were derelict. We can only infer, as one might infer
from the pages of history. We can only deduce and play
detective. And we must try, for this second story, more truly a
puzzle, could be of utmost importance to finding out how we, as
humans, act under stress, trauma, and fear... for the Boomerang
had all of these!

The puzzle has far more parts than the tale of the Boomerang. It
is, indeed, a part of a continuing story of mankind's pioneering
search for adventure and meaning, but repeatedly dashed and
frustrated by those who cannot look to the heights of the
pioneer: by the "it will never fly" or "it can't be done"
mentalities. These who always must say that since it can't be
done, there is no need to even think about it or even talk about
it.

Therein lies the spawning ground of indifference, of apathy, and
[of] dereliction of duty. All those who didn't follow through on
the Boomerang event were not willfully derelict: they were
merely the thousands of "it will never fly" and "it can't be
done" and so there is no need to think about it. The corollary
is: "Since it can't be done, whomever said it had been done,
were simply deluded... they must have been mistaken, and so no
need to look into it further." It is the failure to seek for the
light of the tunnel because there couldn't be a light.

Intellectual adventure is sterile when there is continual
inability to seek answer to challenges, to seek ways out of the
tunnel of indifference. In the story of the Boomerang, the FAA,
the media, scientists, politicians, the military.... all may
momentarily touch upon the mystery, but suddenly it appeared
that apathy saps further energy to incentive, and in its stead
is a great desire [for] nothing... it becomes a hotbed of
inertia... a great desire to do nothing, fobbing it all off in
the guise of a handy solution, like "planes in formation."

It is not as from a seeming direct desire to be in duty, but it
is more as though the call for duty has vanished, or as though
some bad fairy had administered a sleeping potion, an apathy
draught. How else might one hold that otherwise responsible law
enforcement, FAA, military, the media etc. would renege on their
duties?

There is a more realistic answer than calling upon some bad
fairy (though it would certainly fit the facts) and that is that
it all lies in our human (mental) nature. A psychologist would
express it more professionally, but it simply amounts to the
fact that the human mind has definite limits for acceptance and
accountability. In the history of science this syndrome has been
seen many times and in many ages. For instance, how often has it
occurred that totally revolutionary ideas, so novel at first as
to be utterly neglected or discarded... a form of apathy and
total indifference.

As a homely analogy, one might say that such a totally novel
idea "overheats the mental human circuits" and the fuse blows
(or the circuit-breaker cuts out) as a protective device for the
mind. The time is not yet right for the age and the new idea
might just as well not have been there in the first place.
Mankind was not yet able to handle it.

Thus when mankind is presented with a totally bizarre, shocking,
traumatic event (the Boomerang?), a mental circuit cuts out.
Instead of a challenge for action, there is a dead battery. This
is, of course, well known in individual cases of amnesia in, for
example, "shell shock": could it be that a collective amnesia or
apathy can come into play? If so, might it be possible that
collectively people can react traumatically, as to the
Westchester Boomerang, to a collective amnesia, whether they are
policemen, media people, the FAA etc.?

Whatever be the case, the effect is real. Many instances in
history.... and the Boomerang is its most recent and spectacular
example... when the breaking point of the collective mind
occurs, it must openly disregard patent evidence of the senses:
it can no longer encompass them within their normal borders. The
Holocaust perpetrated by Hitler in WW II is another sample:
people simply refused to accept, and were indifferent to the
evidence, because their minds couldn't bring themselves to
accept that such a Holocaust could possibly be, despite ample
evidence. It was also a "mental circuit breaker," a general
apathy and a will to indifference.

The Boomerang and the Holocaust are but striking samples of what
happens when the collective mind willfully disregards evidence,
when "it can't take it." The entire modern UFO syndrome is
another: ARTICLE; here we have utterly ample evidence of the
global nature of the UFO phenomenon. [In] thousands of instances
and over many countries, the evidence for the UFO phenomenon is
clear, but those in position of policy and authority (FAA,
educators, scientists etc) are deaf or purposely obtuse. Apathy
goes hand in hand with the ability to accept even the most inane
answers, anything whatever, just to stave off the necessity to
think.

So we cannot at the moment expect to do [but] little about the
wealth of material collected on the Westchester Boomerang (or
for the much more abundant wealth of UFO material). The circuits
are closed; apathy holds sway. But history has shown that in
time the information and questions dam breaks, sometimes
cataclysmically, and later, why, lo and behold, the pundits by a
complete irrational turn of fact, will say, "Oh, we knew this
all the time!"


The Author

Leslie Kean is an investigative journalist whose feature
stories, news analysis and opinion pieces have appeared in the
Boston Globe, Baltimore Sun, Philadelphia Inquirer,
International Herald Tribune, Globe and Mail (Canada), Sydney
Morning Herald, Kyoto Journal, The Journal of Scientific
Exploration, Burma Debate, The Nation, Providence Journal,
Sacramento Bee, Minneapolis Star Tribune, Vancouver Sun, the
Nation (Thailand), Internazionale (Italy), VSD (France), Irish
Independent, Bangkok Post, Gazette (Montreal), The Commercial
Appeal, Honolulu Star-Bulletin, Journal of Commerce, St. Louis
Post Dispatch, San Francisco Examiner, Cincinnati Enquirer,
Duluth News Tribune, Las Vegas Review Journal, San Francisco Bay
Guardian, The Progressive, IF Magazine. Her stories have been
syndicated through Knight-Ridder, Scripps-Howard, New York Times
Wire Service, Pacific News Service and the National Publishers
Association. Since 1998, Kean has been an associate producer and
co-host for an investigative news program on KPFA Radio, a
Pacifica station broadcast from the San Francisco Bay Area.

Her books and publications include Perspectives: Drugs and
Society (Coursewise Publishing, Inc. 2000), Stone Soup for the
World (Conari Press, 1998), Drugs, Society and Behavior 98/99
(Dushkin/McGraw-Hill, 1998), and Burma's Revolution of the
Spirit: The Struggle for Democratic Freedom and Dignity co-
authored with Alan Clements (Aperture, 1994; White Orchid Press,
1995, Thai and Burmese Editions).

Acknowledgements

The author wishes to thank Ed Rothschild of PodestaMattoon for
his invaluable assistance with this report and Larry Landsman of
the SCI FI Channel for the invitation to write it. Most
importantly, gratitude is extended to the many diligent
researchers and courageous scientists who won't stop asking the
right questions.








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                        NASA Debunks Moon Hoax Theory

From: Kurt Jonach - The Electric Warrior=20
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 17:48:38 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 04:13:31 -0500
Subject: NASA Debunks Moon Hoax Theory


From: The Electric Warrior (Kurt Jonach)

--------------------------------------------------

The Electric Warrior : Web Log October 30, 2002
http://www.electricwarrior.com/

--------------------------------------------------
=BB NASA DEBUNKS MOON HOAX THEORY
alternative science

image: John Glenn Hero's Journey
http://www.electricwarrior.com/gallery/ewHerosJourneyThumb.jpg

(The Electric Warrior) - NASA has commissioned a book to prove
that historic Apollo Moon missions really happened.

Conspiracy theorists who claim that NASA's six moon landings
were faked got a boost in credibility last year from a Fox TV
broadcast that questioned whether mankind really landed on the
moon.

The San Jose Mercury news reports after the Fox show first
aired, NASA put out a one-paragraph press release titled
"Apollo: Yes, We Did."

James Oberg, a former NASA aerospace engineer and award-winning
science author was chosen by NASA to write a book that sets the
record straight. "Ignoring it only fans the flames of people who
are naturally suspicious," says Oberg.

Oberg has a tough job ahead of him. Whereas some people lament
that the book has to be written at all, others are saying it
probably won't convince die-hard skeptics anyway.

--------------------------------------------------
RELATED RESOURCES

29-Oct-02
NASA commissions book to prove moon landing really happened

http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/4397818.htm

(Mercury News) WASHINGTON - More than 33 years after the United
States landed men on the moon, NASA is spending more than
$15,000 to convince people that it really did happen and that
the space agency didn't make it all up.

--------------------------------------------------
ABOUT THE IMAGE

Astronaut John Glenn was the first American in space. He
successfully completed his historic three-orbit mission around
Earth on February 20, 1962. In 1998 at age 77 John Glenn
returned to space aboard the space shuttle STS-95 Discovery.
Glenn never made it to the moon.

--------------------------------------------------
THE ELECTRIC WARRIOR
October 30, 2002
Silicon Valley, CA
http://www.electricwarrior.com

Graphics & Gonzo

--------------------------------------------------
This text is freely distributable for non-commercial purposes,
provided you cite The Electric Warrior. Web developers should
link here...

http://www.electricwarrior.com

Images are created exclusively for the Electric Warrior Website.
They can be downloaded and cached for individual use, but may
not be reproduced or used in any other context without
permission.

The Electric Warrior is not responsible for the content of Web
links. Content reproduced here is for informational purposes
only. All copyrights Acknowledged.

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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   Oct > Oct 31

            Re: Jimmy Carter The Nobel Prize & Extraterrestrials

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 21:27:08 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 04:15:27 -0500
Subject: Re: Jimmy Carter The Nobel Prize & Extraterrestrials


 >From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@optonline.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 09:56:05 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Jimmy Carter The Nobel Prize & Extraterrestrials

 >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 22:29:30 +0000
 >>Subject: Re: Jimmy Carter The Nobel Prize & Extraterrestrials

 >>>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 21:10:09 EDT
 >>>Subject: Re: Jimmy Carter The Nobel Prize & Extraterrestrials

 >>>This famous IFO was actually the planet Venus, as
 >>>determined by Robert Sheaffer many years ago and
 >>>published in The Humanist, July-August 1977, p. 46.

 >>>The problem was that Carter was mistaken about the
 >>>date when recounting it years later. Sheaffer got to the
 >>>bottom of it.

 >>>Please see:

 >>>http://www.debunker.com/texts/carter_ufo.html

<snip>

 >It is certainly possible for a person to make an error regarding
 >a date while hastily filling out a form and still be quite
 >accurate in remembering what he/she saw at a particular moment,
 >especially if that event imprinted on the mind.

Hi, Jerry:

The point about the date error was that on the correct date
Venus was visible in the direction Carter looked. Also it
allowed Sheaffer to locate other people who were also present:
they didn't recall seeing anything unusual. This suggests
strongly that what Carter saw was not brighter than the Moon or
exhibiting the bizarre motions that he reported.

The argument that any witness is not capable of mistaking Venus
for a UFO ignores 50 years of IFOs by "qualified" people who
probably also saw Venus many times before.

That's why it's so often called an Identified Flying Object.


Clear skies,

Bob Young







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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   Oct > Oct 31

                Re: Sci Fi Release On UFO Disclosure - Young

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 22:37:50 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 04:18:27 -0500
Subject: Re: Sci Fi Release On UFO Disclosure - Young


 >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 05:03:57 +0200
 >Subject: Sci Fi Release On UFO Disclosure

 >Source: Sci Fi Wire

 >http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/art-sfc.html?2002-10/23/12.30.sfc

<snip>

 >SCI FI has also commissioned a report by independent journalist
 >Leslie Kean to document the government's failure to carry out
 >systematic scientific research into the UFO phenomenon.

Ladies & Gents:

Does anybody know where a copy of this report or a transcript
of this news conference may be obtained, or if it is on the net
anyplace?


Clear skies,

Bob Young







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   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   Oct > Oct 31

               Mount Roche de Boule Hazelton B.C. 2nd Witness

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO Research <hbccufo@telus.net>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 19:35:19 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 04:23:48 -0500
Subject: Mount Roche de Boule Hazelton B.C. 2nd Witness


HBCC UFO Note: The reports I post early are only raw data.

Mount Roche de Boule in Hazelton, British Columbia

Date: July 25, 2002
Time: 10:50 p.m.

I remember that the sky was still sort of pink we were
celebrating the other guys birthday. It popped out from the left
side of the mountains. (name deleted by HBCC UFO) noticed that
it didn't make any noise I never thought anything of it till he
mentioned it so we watched it fly towards the clouds which were
low at about 1 mile up. I remember talking to the others about
how low the  clouds were. We watched it go into the clouds , it
never came out the other side I figured that it disappeared.
That is the best that I can remember.

Thankyou to this witness for their report.

HBCC UFO removed all personal information from this report.

Take care

Brian
HBCC UFO Research
Editor: Canadian Communicator (Paranormal Journal)







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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   Oct > Oct 31

                     Hickson-Parker Abduction Revisited

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 07:38:43 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 04:27:28 -0500
Subject: Hickson-Parker Abduction Revisited


Source: The Clarion-Ledger - Jackson Mississippi

http://www.clarionledger.com/news/0210/30/o01.html

Photos at the website.

Stig

***

October 30, 2002

Strange lights in the Gulf Coast sky

An Abductee's Story

By Billy Watkins
bwatkins@clarionledger.com

**

GAUTIER - Charles Hickson has no proof.

No photograph he can pull from his wallet, no papers certifying
his story.

Just his word that 29 years ago this month he and a fishing
buddy were abducted by a UFO, examined by a machine resembling a
giant eyeball, then released physically unharmed.

He has told his story under hypnosis, told it to Johnny Carson
on national TV.

Recently, while sipping coffee in his modest home in Gautier, he
told the story to a Clarion-Ledger reporter.

His account of that night never changes. He has passed numerous
lie- detector tests.

What Hickson hasn't talked about publicly, until now, is that he
believes whatever - or whoever - was on that craft has kept
track of him.

"I think they know where I am at all times," he says. "Too many
strange things have happened."

Hickson, a retired shipyard foreman with five children and a no-
nonsense demeanor, is 71 and spends most of his time caring for
Blanche, his wife of 48 years who suffers from rheumatoid
arthritis. He is fighting health problems of his own, including
clogged arteries in his neck.

Hickson says he is a God-fearing man who "believes Jesus Christ
died for my sins."

Whether people believe his UFO story doesn't seem to be a big
deal to him. "If you were in my place right now, I'm not sure
I'd believe you or not," he said.

But others saw something that night, too.

Several people later reported strange lights in the Gulf Coast
sky just after sunset on Oct. 11, 1973 - about the time Hickson
and then 19-year- old Calvin Parker say they were abducted.

Mike Cataldo, a retired Navy chief petty officer now living in
Rotonda West, Fla., says he saw "a very strange object on the
horizon" late that afternoon while driving on U.S. 90, between
Pascagoula and Ocean Springs.

"Puddin' Broadus, a Pascagoula detective back then, told me he
saw something streak through the air," says Glenn Ryder, a
former captain with the Jackson County Sheriff's department who
was the first to interrogate Hickson and Parker. "Puddin's dead
now, but he was a fine man. He wouldn't make up something like
that.

"A guard at Ingalls (Shipbuilding) saw it. Another guy was in
his back yard and said he saw something streak above his house.

"When we studied it, all those reportings were in a straight
line. And I'll tell you this: After talking with (Hickson and
Parker) that night, I'm convinced they had some kind of
experience. I don't know exactly what, but something happened to
them. They were both shook up, especially that boy."

Parker, now 48, has avoided the media in recent years.

"This thing really messed Calvin up," Hickson says. "He was so
young ... he just couldn't handle it."

In a 1993 interview with The Commercial Appeal in Memphis,
Parker said he was convinced it was demons, sent directly from
Satan, who visited them that night.

Beverly Parker, Calvin's stepmother who lives with his father in
Kiln, says they haven't heard from him "in a couple of months."
Last she knew, Calvin was working construction in North Carolina
and "doing pretty good."

The UFO incident is "something he won't talk about anymore," she
says.

. . .

It is late on a Saturday night, and Blanche Hickson has gone to
bed. The house is quiet and dark, except for a single lamp
softly illuminating the den.

"I don't mind talking about it," Charles Hickson says, settling
his 5- foot-8, 172- pound body into an easy chair. "I don't seek
folks out to tell it, but it's something I feel like people
deserve to know if they ask."

Hickson begins his story:

"Calvin was working for me at Walker's Shipyard, and doing a
dadgum good job. Calvin and his brother had sorta grown up with
my oldest boy, Eddie. Some evenings after work, we'd go fishing.

"We got off about 4 o'clock that day and came by my house to get
the fishing tackle, then we went and got some shrimp for bait.
We tried several places and hadn't caught anything. I said,
'Calvin, there's one more place I want to try. If they don't
bite there, we'll give it up and go on home.'

"So we went down toward Ingalls and started fishing off a pier.
We sat there for a while, and I finally got a bite. I was
reeling in and started hearing this hissing sound. Like steam
coming out of a pipe.

"I looked around, and it just startled me. Something was
hovering two or three feet above the ground, probably no more
than 10 or 15 yards from us. There were two blue flashing lights
on the top part of the end that was toward us. I couldn't tell
if it was round or oblong. I could see a little dome on top, but
I couldn't see all the way around the thing so I couldn't tell
for sure how big it was.

"I jumped to my feet, looked over at Calvin, and he looked plumb
strange. Then a door opened and this brilliant light came out of
it. I couldn't figure what in the world was happening. I've
known fear. I fought 20 months in hand-to-hand combat in Korea.
The only thing I'm scared of is a snake. I'll run from a snake.
But this wasn't normal.

"All of a sudden, these three things began coming out of that
door. They looked like they had elephant skin. Wrinkled. Real
wrinkled. And triangle shaped ears that had to be some sort of
antennas.

"These things were robots. They seemed to come right out of that
beam of light. They never touched the ground. They moved right
out there beside me and Calvin. I couldn't move, and neither
could he. Two of 'em came around behind me, took me under each
arm. When they grabbed me, I seemed to rise to their height.
They weren't as tall as me, but they sorta had me in a leaning
position.

"One took hold of Calvin, and I saw him go limp. He told me
later that he fainted. They took us through that doorway, in the
middle of a room, and I couldn't see Calvin anymore. There was
nothing in there ... just a real bright glow. I couldn't move
anything but my eyes.

"They let go of me. I still wasn't touching nothing, just kinda
floating. All I could think was, 'What are they gonna do with
us?' I figured they'd take us off, and we'd never see our
families again.

"I didn't see (the robots) for a while. Then an eyeball, about
the size of a football, came out of the wall. It moved right in
front of my face. I saw dials and gadgets moving around. It went
behind me, then came back over me. Then it disappeared back into
the wall.

"I was just about out of my mind. I thought they were gonna kill
me. Folks would think we fell off in the river and drowned, and
nobody would ever know about this.

"It seemed like a long time, but it couldn't have been more than
a few minutes. (The robots) came and carried me back outside.
They didn't throw me down, they eased me down. And when they
did, I fell to the ground. My legs were real weak.

"I saw Calvin standing there, staring out at the water. He was
in shock. I've seen men in shock, and if you don't do something
pretty quick, they'll die. I started going over to where he was,
and I saw the craft leave. The blue lights were on again, I
remember that.

"When I got to Calvin, I had to slap him a time or two. I
finally got him to where he could say something. He said,
'Charlie, what in the world was that?' I said 'Son, I don't
know. But they didn't kill us.' "

. . .

As they drove away in Parker's Plymouth, Hickson and Parker
agreed not to tell anyone about the incident.

"I knew people would call us crazy and everything else," Hickson
says. "But I thought about it some more and said, 'What if it's
a threat to our country?' That's when I decided to call Keesler
(Air Force Base in Biloxi)."

The person who answered the phone at Keesler said they didn't
investigate UFOs and suggested Hickson call the sheriff's
department.

That's when Hickson spoke with Glenn Ryder from a convenience
store pay phone.

"He said, 'I want to tell you something, but you've got to
promise not to laugh,' " recalls Ryder, now 63 and retired. "I
was about to get off work, so it kinda aggravated me. I said,
'If you want to tell me something, then tell me.' He asked me
again to promise not to laugh, so I promised.

"He said, 'I just got picked up by a UFO.' And, of course, I
busted out laughing. He got real upset, so I apologized and told
him to go ahead with his story. I could tell he was serious."

Ryder convinced Hickson and Parker to drive to the sheriff's
office. He called Jackson County sheriff Fred Diamond, now
deceased, to join him for the questioning.

Ryder remembers: "When they walked in, Charlie said, 'I just
want to tell you up front, I've had a drink. I had to do
something to try and settle my nerves.'

"The young boy was real fidgety. He was about to crawl the
walls."

Hickson and Parker told the officers what had happened. Ryder
says it was a struggle to keep a straight face.

Then he and Diamond plotted to find out the truth. "We kept a
tape recorder in the top drawer of the desk," Ryder says. "It
was a small office, so it would pick up everything said in
there. We let them go to the bathroom and decided to turn the
recorder on, then leave them alone for a while.

"We did that, and when we listened to the tape later, we
expected to hear them saying, 'Boy, we sure fooled them' or
something like that."

But they didn't. Here is the transcript from the hidden
recorder.

Parker: "I got to get home and get to bed or get some nerve
pills or see the doctor or something. I can't stand it. I'm
about to go half crazy."

Hickson: "I tell you, when we're through, I'll get you something
to settle you down so you can get some damn sleep."

Parker: "I can't sleep yet like it is. I'm just damn near
crazy."

Hickson: "Calvin, when they brought you out - when they brought
me out of that thing - (expletive) I like to never in hell got
you straightened out."

Parker: "My damn arms, my arms. I remember they just froze up
and I couldn't move. Just like I stepped on a damn rattlesnake."

Hickson: "They didn't do me that way."

Parker: "I passed out. I expect I never passed out in my whole
life."

Hickson: "I've never seen nothing like that before in my life.
You can't make people believe ..."

Parker: "I don't want to keep sitting here. I want to see a
doctor."

Hickson: "They better wake up and start believing."

Parker: "You see how that damn door come right up?"

Hickson: "I don't know how it opened, son. I don't know."

Parker: "I just laid up, and just like that, those (expletive)
come out."

Hickson: "I know. You can't believe it. You can't make people
believe it."

Parker: "I paralyzed right then. I couldn't move."

Hickson: "They won't believe it. They gonna believe it one of
these days. Might be too late. I knew all along they was people
from other worlds up there. I knew all along. I never thought it
would happen to me."

Parker: "You know yourself I don't drink."

Hickson: "I know that, son. When I get to the house, I'm gonna
get me another drink, make me sleep. Look, what we sitting
around for? I got to go tell Blanche ... what we waiting for?"

Parker: "I gotta go to the house. I'm getting sick. I gotta get
out of here."

Hickson leaves the room, and Parker is left alone.

Parker: "It's hard to believe ... Oh, God, it's awful. I know
there's a God up there."

Parker begins to pray. His words become inaudible.

. . .

Hickson and Diamond agreed to keep the story quiet.

When he got home, Hickson told his wife what had happened and
where he had been.

"I was like everybody else ... I had a hard time believing it,"
Blanche Hickson says. "But three or four hours later, I knew
something was wrong. I was up all night, wiping sweat off of
him. He'd jump straight up in the bed. He was scared to death."

Hickson went to work the next morning. "I had to get my men
going," he says. "But as soon as I got back to my office, the
phone rang. It was a reporter from Jackson, asking what had
happened the night before. I just slung the phone down."

Diamond called minutes later. He said word had leaked out and
that his office was flooded with reporters.

"He asked me to come over and talk to them, and I told him I
wasn't going no damn where," Hickson says.

Hickson took off work for two weeks, hoping things would die
down. They didn't.

Officials at Keesler interviewed him and Parker. Reporters and
astronomers were coming to Hickson's house, begging for details.

"It got to the point where I was like, 'They know about it. I
might as well tell them what happened.' And I told Calvin that,"
he says.

Hickson and Parker were all over the national news and made the
talk-show circuit: The Dick Cavett Show, The Mike Douglas Show,
The Tonight Show.

Something surprised Hickson: "Nobody was laughing at us, at
least not to our face. I never took any ridicule. My children at
school never took any ridicule. It surprised me."

Hickson became friends with Allen Hynek, an astronomer at
Northwestern University and one of the world's leading UFO
investigators at the time. Hynek is now deceased.

"He convinced me to undergo hypnosis," Hickson says. "I wasn't
sure about it at first, but I did it several times."

His story was basically the same during each session.

"But under deep hypnosis once, I discovered something that still
gives me chills," Hickson says. "There were people on that
spaceship - living beings in another compartment. They never
came in there where we were. And I'm telling you, they looked
almost like us.

"Only thing I can figure is that they couldn't live in our
atmosphere, so they let the robots come out there and carry us
inside."

. . .

The Pascagoula incident was not the first - nor the last -
reported abduction. The first documented case involved Barney
and Betty Hill, who said they were taken aboard an alien craft
in 1961 while driving in New Hampshire.

Hickson visited Betty Hill in Boston a few months after his
encounter. "Her husband had died, but she wanted to try and find
out if it could've been the same craft," he says. "From what she
described to me, I told her I didn't think so."

Peter Davenport, director of the National UFO Reporting Center
in Seattle, has studied both cases extensively.

"It was the Pascagoula case that played a crucial role in
convincing my predecessor (Robert J. Gribble) to set up this
center," says Davenport, a graduate of Stanford University with
degrees in Russian and biology.

"He said cases like Mr. Hickson's and Mr. Parker's made him
realize the need for a centralized place where people could call
and report things they had seen."

More than 2,400 sightings have been reported to the center this
year - the latest by a TV news photographer in Albany, N.Y.,
last week.

Davenport realizes many people believe UFOs are about as real as
the Tooth Fairy.

He is not one of them. When he was 6, Davenport witnessed a
bright red object, the size of a full moon, hovering like a
traffic signal in the night sky above a drive-in theater in St.
Louis. "People were getting out of their cars and pointing and
actually running toward it," he says. "In a matter of seconds,
it accelerated and was gone over the horizon.

"My father had seen it with binoculars from the airport tower
where he worked. I always thought it was strange he didn't care
to talk about it."

Davenport can cite numerous inexplicable cases, including the
Phoenix Lights of 1997. "Tens of thousands of people witnessed
objects acting in an utterly bizarre fashion over Arizona," he
says. "The objects hovered, then flew at supersonic speed
through the air space of at least three major airports."

He says five years ago, "prestigious people" with the U.S.
government requested a meeting with him in Washington.

"They asked not to be identified," Davenport says, "and they
were 32 minutes late to the meeting. But when they got there,
they said, 'As a courtesy to you, we'd first like to tell you
our position on UFOs. One, we know they're real. Two, they
appear to be sophisticated crafts under intelligent control.
And, three, we're worried about them.'

"That confirmed everything I had suspected up to that time. I
don't think I'm crazy. I don't think I'm dumb. And I believe the
UFO phenomenon is real."

So does John Podesta, President Clinton's former White House
chief of staff. Just last week, Podesta said he will be leading
a group to gain access to secret governmental records about
UFOs.

"It's time to provide scientists with data that will assist in
determining the real nature of this phenomenon," he said.

. . .

On Mother's Day, May 1974, Hickson was riding back from a family
get- together in Jones County with his wife, their youngest son
(Curtis), their daughter (Sheila) and the man she was married to
at the time.

"It was almost midnight," Hickson says, "and I kept noticing a
light back behind us. I nudged Sheila, who was sitting on the
front seat beside me, and said, 'Look out that window and see if
that light ain't following us.'

"She looked out the window and just froze. Blanche saw it and
started screaming."

Seconds later, a saucershaped craft was hovering 150 feet above,
and to the right, of their car.

"I saw it with my own eyes," says Sheila Hynum of Vicksburg, who
was 18 at the time. "Mama was so scared, she was screaming."

"It was a terrifying thing to see," Blanche Hickson says. "It
affected me bad. Tore me up. We stopped the car and Charles
wanted to get out, but I wouldn't let him. We were all grabbing
him and holding him.

"It hovered there a while, then just disappeared."

Charles Hickson, whose 1983 book UFO: Contact at Pascagoula will
be re- issued in November, says that wasn't the first sighting
he'd had since the initial encounter.

While squirrel hunting in February 1974, he knelt down beside a
tree to eat a sandwich. Through the brush, he says, part of a
craft was visible. Suddenly, he heard a voice.

"It was like a radio signal or something inside my head," he
says. "They said, 'Tell people we mean you no harm. You have
endured. You have been chosen. There is no need for fear. Your
world needs help. We will help before it is too late. You are
not prepared to understand. We will return again soon.'

"I picked up my gun and came straight home."

The same voice, with the same message, came to him again a month
later in his back yard. Since then, he says, all the fear has
left him.

"I want to go to that world - wherever it is they came from," he
says. "I don't think they'd carry me if they couldn't bring me
back. And if they ever decide to destroy this world, they might
save a few of the people. I'd like to think I'd be one of
those."

Well past midnight now, Hickson gets up from his chair, leaves
the den, and returns with a large brown envelope. He pulls out
several X-rays and shows them to the visiting reporter.

"See that little mole-looking thing behind my (right) eye?" he
says, holding the image over the lamp. "I think they implanted
something in there. I've been to the VA hospital in New Orleans
twice. Been to a cancer doctor at Tulane University. Nobody can
figure out what it is.

"Me, I think it's maybe how they keep track of me. It doesn't
hurt. Doesn't affect my vision. It just showed up when they were
taking pictures of the arteries in my neck.

"Strange, ain't it?"

**

Copyright =A9 2001, The Clarion-Ledger.






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   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 >
   Oct > Oct 31

                    Re: Magonia Supplement 41 - Friedman

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 08:05:02 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 09:11:00 -0500
Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 41 - Friedman


 >From: Chris Whitlock <cjwhit@yahoo.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 20:13:05 +0000 (GMT)
 >Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 41

 >>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 12:13:10 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 41

 >>Where else is the Magonia Supplement published?

 >>Is there a dearth of Skeptic Sites out there which the MS is
 >>targeting? Are we then the CC'd recipients of the MS?

 >>I gotta tell you John that this is pretty tired, skeptic dogma -
 >>the same-old, same-old. It seems to me that if these UFO Lists
 >>didn't exist then the MS wouldn't either.

 >>If this isn't the case, where's the feedback from the annointed
 >>in the skeptical side of the field? Re evidence of the ETH and
 >>re-entry data on same.

 >>I've seen many satellite images and STS images over the years
 >>begging better answers than the ice flakes explanation or pixel
 >>anomalies which are dragged out each time only to explain
 >>embarrassing shots of that which can't really be explained.

 >>Everytime I've asked James Oberg, for instance, to give me his
 >>take on the tether anomalies - I'm met with cricket noises. The
 >>tired 'not painted on radar' explanation for not seeing
 >>entering, possibly extraterrestrial craft, is a dead issue since
 >>terrestrial use of stealth technology is commonplace. And it
 >>doesn't have to be military.

 >This is my first post to this List, which I have been following
 >for a time. My name is Chris Whitlock and I'm the webmaster at
 >Ufology UK:

 >http://www.ufology.org.uk

 >I dont subscribe to a lot of UFO Publications but I chose
 >Magonia to be one of them. I have found it to be a resourceful
 >and enjoyable read that keeps its content and acuracy of data
 >and does not tend to fly off too often with mumbo jumbo personal
 >opinion/theories.

 >If you do not believe or conclude with the ETH, how does this
 >make you a skeptic? It surly makes you someone who believes in
 >another theory.

 >There are lots of research AND theories out there regarding UFOs
 >and I have found the ETH the one with the least scientific
 >evidence but the one with the most passionate personal belief.

 >Not all Ufologists are loooking for ET.


It seems to me that you are asking the wrong question; i.e. What
are UFOs?

The question I am asking is Are _any_ UFOs Intelligently
controlled ET craft?

My answer is a very loud YES!

Another question might be: Are any UFOs secret government
vehicles? My answer again would have to be YES!

Are Most UFOs eventually converted to IFOs? YES!

My standard college lecture is "Flying Saucers ARE Real!". While
all flying saucers are UFOs only a few UFOs are Flying Saucers.

All useful drugs are chemicals. Most chemicals are not useful
drugs.

Most stars aren't black holes. All black holes are stars.

All great grandfathers are men. Surely not all men are great
grandfathers.

Gold ore is worth mining if there is an ounce of gold per ton of
ore. Mostly that ore is dross. It is the gold that matters.

Science should be focusing on the data relevant to the
problem at hand not using guilt by association i.e. since most
UFO sightings can be explained, all can be.

Nonsense!


Stan Friedman








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   Oct > Oct 31

               Re: Sci Fi Release On UFO Disclosure - Bassett

From: Stephen G. Bassett <SGBList2@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 12:20:25 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 16:10:30 -0500
Subject: Re: Sci Fi Release On UFO Disclosure - Bassett


 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 22:37:50 EST
 >Subject: Re: Sci Fi Release On UFO Disclosure

 >>From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 05:03:57 +0200
 >>Subject: Sci Fi Release On UFO Disclosure

 >>Source: Sci Fi Wire

 >>http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/art-sfc.html?2002-10/23/12.30.sfc

<snip>

 >>SCI FI has also commissioned a report by independent journalist
 >>Leslie Kean to document the government's failure to carry out
 >>systematic scientific research into the UFO phenomenon.

 >Ladies & Gents:

 >Does anybody know where a copy of this report or a transcript
 >of this news conference may be obtained, or if it is on the net
 >anyplace?

 >Clear skies,

 >Bob Young

Bob,

You would want to contact the PR firm representing the
SciFI Channel initiatives:

PodestaMattoon
Ed Rothschild
rothschild@podestamattoon.com


Steve Bassett







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                  Re: Secrecy News -- 10/31/02 - Aftergood

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 10:30:20 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 16:20:02 -0500
Subject: Re: Secrecy News -- 10/31/02 - Aftergood


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2002, Issue No. 109
October 31, 2002


**      FREEDOM OF INFORMATION AND "IMAGINARY CONSPIRACIES"
**      CRITIQUE OF THE CIA CODEWORD COMPARTMENT
**      ELLSBERG'S "SECRETS"
**      UK PRO RELEASES


FREEDOM OF INFORMATION AND "IMAGINARY CONSPIRACIES"

In the climax to one of the most bizarre chapters in the history
of Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) litigation, a federal judge
issued a ruling last month not only on what the law requires but
on what is real, and rebuked a requester for "seeking
information about an imaginary conspiracy."

The requester, Barbara Schwarz, a resident of Salt Lake City,
has become a figure of almost mythical proportions among
government freedom of information officers because of her
relentless pursuit of nonexistent information and her
astonishing litigiousness.

In one lawsuit last year, she named 3,087 defendants in a
complaint that was 2,370 pages long.  The judge observed that
she had sued "what appears to be every federal department,
independent federal agency and office or component thereof and
each agency's FOIA officers."

That case was dismissed as frivolous and malicious and, in a
most unusual step, the court enjoined Ms. Schwarz from further
filings. But at least two related cases of hers remained
pending, until last month's dismissal of one of them.

"The premise of plaintiff's FOIA requests," as summarized by the
Court, "is that a German Nazi conspiracy has infiltrated the
United States Government, that [her husband] is being held
secretly having been falsely convicted, that one purpose of the
conspiracy is to prevent plaintiff from locating [her husband]
or his parents or attorneys so that she can testify on his
behalf, and that an independent or special counsel may be trying
unsuccessfully to reach plaintiff to obtain her testimony."

"The Court concludes that this premise is fanciful and has no
basis in fact," wrote D.C. District Judge John D. Bates in his
September 24 ruling.

"The Freedom of Information Act is designed to provide
requesters with real information about how the government
works," Judge Bates continued.  "Its admirable purpose is abused
when misguided individuals are allowed (in this case,
repeatedly) to submit requests to every agency and subdivision
of the government, seeking information about an imaginary
conspiracy."

It is a source of frustration for other FOIA requesters to have
to wait in line while Ms. Schwarz demands, for example,
documents proving that L. Ron Hubbard, the founder of
Scientology, is the unacknowledged son of President Dwight
Eisenhower (Ms. Schwarz asserts that she herself is the
unacknowledged daughter of Hubbard.); or CIA records "relating
to a village in Utah named Chattanooga"; or any records
referring to her "under code name 'Cindy'."

 >From a greater distance, however, the Schwarz litigation
illustrates just how far the FOIA system will go to accommodate
individual requesters, no matter how peculiar, idiosyncratic, or
demented they may be.

"Courts are here to grant justice to anyone not only to certain
people," Ms. Schwarz wrote last year (all in CAPS).

Though she does not recognize it, justice is what she has
received.

A copy of Judge Bates' September 24 ruling dismissing Schwarz v.
FBI, et al, obtained from the DC District Court Clerk's office,
is posted here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/foia/schwarz.html

Undeterred by the adverse decision, Ms. Schwarz has filed notice
of appeal.


CRITIQUE OF THE CIA CODEWORD COMPARTMENT

The crippling effects of excessive secrecy on the ability of
U.S. intelligence agencies to anticipate threats to national
security are not a new phenomenon but can be traced back
decades, according to a recently declassified 1977 CIA study on
classification "compartments."

"It is arguable that all intelligence failures, starting with
that of Pearl Harbor, are attributable in some degree to abuses
of compartmentation, to a failure to integrate information.
  According to [name deleted], 'The intelligence analyst who did
not know that the [U.S.S.] Pueblo was off North Korea prior to
its seizure [in 1968], and most did not, was not likely to have
alerted his superior to some anomaly in North Korean naval
activity.  The list of such examples is endless.'"

"At least in the minds of many analysts, the problem posed by
Pearl Harbor is still with us," according to the 1977 study.

Twenty-five years later, the congressional joint inquiry into
September 11 continued to find that excessive secrecy had
impeded information sharing between CIA and FBI, as well as
between government agencies and the American public.

All of which suggests that the problem with CIA's information
policies is not a matter of individual personalities, who have
come and gone, but a deeply rooted institutional dysfunction
that has escaped effective remedial action.

A copy of the March 1977 "Critique of the Codeword Compartment
in the CIA" (reported in Secrecy News earlier this week in
connection with the "psychological effects of secrecy") is now
posted here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/codeword.html

The normally astute CIA historian Michael Warner appears to
confuse means and ends when he makes the baffling claim that
"secrecy is a vital element--perhaps the key element--of
intelligence. Intelligence involves information, yes, but it is
secrecy, too. For producers of intelligence, it is more about
secrecy than information."

See Warner's article "Wanted: A Definition of 'Intelligence'" in
the latest issue of CIA's Studies in Intelligence here:

http://www.odci.gov/csi/studies/vol46no3/article02.html


ELLSBERG'S "SECRETS"

Daniel Ellsberg's new book "Secrets: A Memoir of Vietnam and the
Pentagon Papers" received a thoughtful review by Nicholas Lemann
in the November 4 issue of The New Yorker here:

http://www.newyorker.com/critics/books/?021104crbo_books


UK PRO RELEASES

Some of the latest releases of declassified historical
documentation from the United Kingdom Public Record Office are
noted here:

http://www.pro.gov.uk/releases/oct2002/list.htm

_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood@fas.org
voice:  (202) 454-4691







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                    Re: Magonia Supplement 41 - Hamilton

From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 15:47:25 UT
Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 16:22:48 -0500
Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 41 - Hamilton


 >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 08:05:02 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 41

 >>From: Chris Whitlock <cjwhit@yahoo.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 20:13:05 +0000 (GMT)
 >>Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 41

<snip>

 >>There are lots of research AND theories out there regarding UFOs
 >>and I have found the ETH the one with the least scientific
 >>evidence but the one with the most passionate personal belief.

 >>Not all Ufologists are loooking for ET.

 >It seems to me that you are asking the wrong question; i.e. What
 >are UFOs?

 >The question I am asking is Are _any_ UFOs Intelligently
 >controlled ET craft?

 >My answer is a very loud YES!

 >Another question might be: Are any UFOs secret government
 >vehicles? My answer again would have to be YES!

Whoa, please clarify. Do you mean that some UFOs are sightings
of advanced jet-propelled aircraft mistaken for something out of
this world, or do you mean secret aircraft with exotic field
propulsion technology?

 >Are Most UFOs eventually converted to IFOs? YES!

By most, is there a percentage you would estimate? When many
quote 98 or 99% it seems on the high side to me. My
investigations run about 75-80% can be identified.

 >My standard college lecture is "Flying Saucers ARE Real!". While
 >all flying saucers are UFOs only a few UFOs are Flying Saucers.

Has anyone suggested a better word than "Flying Saucer" since
many are not saucers and probably do not fly in the usual sense
of the word (i.e. supported by air pressure differentials).








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   Oct > Oct 31

                        Tunguska Meteorite Fragments

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 18:44:08 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 16:24:54 -0500
Subject: Tunguska Meteorite Fragments


Source: Pravda,

http://english.pravda.ru/main/2002/10/31/38941.html

Stig

***

2002.10.31/15:31

Tunguska Meteorite Fragments Must Be in a Different Place

**

Professor of physical chemistry from the Altay State University
Vladislav Batenkov thinks that traces of the Tunguska meteorite
should not have been searched for not directly under the
meteorite's course, but rather in the opposite direction.

Professor Batenkov graduated from the Chemistry Department of
Tomsk State University; he currently deals with transistor
electrochemistry. He has published several substantial
monographs. Vladislav Batenkov is the creator of 14 inventions.
The professor said in an interview to the newspaper Altayskaya
Pravda: "The mystery of the Tunguska meteorite can be solved
with the help of the physicochemical properties of water. The
explanation is based upon water's ability to decompose in oxygen
and hydrogen at temperatures of over 1000 degrees centigrade. At
the temperature of 5000 degrees centigrade, the decomposition
occurs with detonation. When the temperature of the oxygen and
hydrogen (the detonating mixture) drops below 1000 degrees
centigrade, water is generated again together with the
detonation.

Calculations have revealed that total amount of heat necessary
to turn 1 kg of meteorite ice into decomposition products
(warming of ice, ice melting, water heating, water evaporation,
heating of the steam, and decomposition of water vapor) is about
30.000 kilojoule per one kilogram. The quantity of heat exuded
at the deceleration of a one- kilogram meteorite to the zero
speed will be equal to its initial kinetic energy. Let's assume
that the speed at which the meteorite hits the Earth is 20 km
per second. Then, the quantity of heat exuded at the
deceleration will be about 200.000 kilojoule per kilogram. This
is seven times more than necessary for melting, heating,
evaporation, and decomposition of water for the initial
components.

However, not the whole quantity of heat will be spent on the
water's decomposition; a considerable quantity of heat will
quickly disperse in the atmosphere because of the high
difference between the temperatures and the meteorite's high
speed in the atmosphere. Obviously, only the front part of the
meteorite has all the conditions necessary for an increase of
the pressure and temperature enough for water decomposition.

So, the falling of the Tunguska meteorite was as follows. A huge
chunk of ice entered the atmosphere at an acute angle, and then
it started decelerating increasing in temperature. There is
evidence proving that the meteorite's glow was first noticed
near the city of Vladivostok, and the meteorite's deceleration
was registered at 4,000 kilometers, near the Podkamennaya
Tunguska River basin. The ice chunk increased in temperature
along the way, especially the front of the meteorite. The
meteorite started splitting into separate fragments. That is why
several differently glowing objects could have been observed by
the end of the deceleration. By that moment, the gases reached a
maximum compression, and fragments of the meteorite increased in
temperature to several thousand degrees. At the end of the
motion, the clouds of water decomposition products (detonating
gas) compressed as a result of the fragments' deceleration and
increase in temperature and detonated in the atmosphere after
quick expansion and cooling. Forest fires and concentric forest
falls were the consequences of the detonation. Dust particles
melted and fell down in the form of small beads. It is likely
that when the gas detonated, some tail-end parts of the ice lump
were cast away in a different, south-east direction. Thus, the
remains of the meteorite should have been searched for not along
the meteorites course, but in the opposite direction."

Professor Vladislav Batenkov can provide calculations proving
his hypothesis. He stresses that the Tunguska meteorite mystery
hasn't been explained yet with water decomposition into
components and explosion of detonating gas. According to the
professor, it is difficult to determine the total scale of the
meteorite's impact upon the atmosphere of the Earth, because the
initial mass of the meteorite and the speed at which it hit the
planet are unknown. If we assume that the speed was 20
kilometers per second and consider "an awful explosion equal to
two thousands Hiroshimas," we can estimate the mass of the
Tunguska meteorite. According to Batenkov's calculations, the
mass of the meteorite made up 40,000 tons.

Translated by Maria Gousseva

Read the original in Russian:
http://science.pravda.ru/science/2002/6/20/56/2229_meteorit.html

Related links:

PRAVDA.Ru The Tunguska meteorite mystery is still unveiled
PRAVDA.Ru Another Scientific Expedition To Tunguska Meteorite Fall Site
PRAVDA.Ru Giant asteroid approaching the Earth
PRAVDA.Ru Large Meteorite Falls on the Irkutsk Region
PRAVDA.Ru UFOs shuttering peace and quiet
Spaceflight Now : NASA researchers probe Mundrabilla meteorite
Spaceflight Now : Scientists confirm age of meteorite collision

=A91999 "Pravda.RU". When reproducing our materials in whole or in part,
reference to Pravda.RU should be made.








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                     Re: Magonia Supplement 41 - Speise

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 11:28:20 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 16:27:29 -0500
Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 41 - Speise


 >From: Chris Whitlock <cjwhit@yahoo.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 20:13:05 +0000 (GMT)
 >Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 41

 >>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 12:13:10 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 41

 >Hi,

 >This is my first post to this List, which I have been following
 >for a time. My name is Chris Whitlock and I'm the webmaster at
 >Ufology UK:

 >http://www.ufology.org.uk

 >I dont subscribe to a lot of UFO Publications but I chose
 >Magonia to be one of them. I have found it to be a resourceful
 >and enjoyable read that keeps its content and acuracy of data
 >and does not tend to fly off too often with mumbo jumbo personal
 >opinion/theories.

 >If you do not believe or conclude with the ETH, how does this
 >make you a skeptic? It surly makes you someone who believes in
 >another theory.

 >There are lots of research AND theories out there regarding
 >UFOs and I have found the ETH the one with the least scientific
 >evidence but the one with the most passionate personal belief.

 >Not all Ufologists are loooking for ET.


I tend to agree with you Chris. I am a pro-ufologist who has not
been completely _sold_ on the ETH, though I do hold out some
hope for it.

I tend to side with Vallee that it would be surprising if this
were _only_ aliens from another planet.

But my main contention is that by 'eliminating' the ETH, you are
not solving the mystery, only deepening it... because I am quite
certain that this is _not_ Venus, balloons, and meteors.

I firmly believe that Science has got to roll up its sleeves and
do a much better job of finding the answers to this mystery.
After all, if they fail to do so, they have no one to blame but
themselves for people believing in Little Green Men.

The knowledge vacuum is one of their own making.

==JJS==








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                River Edge Man Pursues 'The Truth' About UFOs

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 16:52:14 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 16:52:14 -0500
Subject: River Edge Man Pursues 'The Truth' About UFOs

http://www.bergen.com/page.php?level_3_id=48&page=5491064

River Edge Man Pursues 'The Truth' About UFOs

Thursday, October 31, 2002

By BRIAN ABERBACK
Staff Writer

Information is power, especially when you're trying to make a
convincing argument that UFOs exist.

"You're going to have people looking at you skeptically with
that 'little green men mentality,'" said Robert VanDerClock, a
self-styled UFO researcher.

The River Edge resident, who has written three research papers
and given nearly 40 lectures on the subject since he became
interested in alien spacecraft nine years ago, swears by his
work. In a calm and sure manner, he can speak for hours about
UFO sightings, from Roswell, N.M., to Wanaque, and the alleged
government coverups that followed.

VanDerClock has never seen a UFO and knows that most people will
rebut, if not ridicule, his beliefs. But he doesn't mind, as
long as people listen to him first.

"I respect skeptics," said the 56-year-old VanDerClock, who is
the Waldwick postmaster. "The people I don't have regard for are
people who refuse to listen, whose minds are made up. At least,
suspend your disbelief and listen to both sides, and then find
out how you feel about it."

VanDerClock's area of expertise, which also happens to be the
subject of his papers and most of his talks, is the most famous
of interplanetary tales: the Roswell incident.

That something fell from the New Mexico night sky in early July
1947 is not in dispute. Whether it was an alien ship or a
weather balloon, as the government said, has fueled the fires of
UFO believers for decades.

On July 8, 1947, the Army Air Corps issued a news release
stating that it had recovered the wreckage of a "flying disc." A
few hours later, the Air Corps rescinded the release and issued
a new statement, which said the flying saucer was really a
weather balloon.

UFO enthusiasts have cried coverup for years.

"There's quite a lot [of evidence]," VanDerClock said. He said
numerous military personnel and civilians near Roswell have
sworn that what plunged to the ground was not of Earth. Several
of those stories are retold in his papers.

"If there was nothing to it, if it was just a balloon, it
would've gone away long ago," he said.

He said the government refuses to acknowledge "the truth" for
fear of the panic that would ensue. "They're afraid of society's
reaction," he said.

In northern New Jersey, VanDerClock says, the Wanaque Reservoir
is a UFO hotspot. "There were a major series of sightings there
in 1966," he said.

This fascination with UFOs came late in life. As a child,
VanDerClock was fascinated with outer space, but his interest
was limited to earthly aspects.

"I was one of these kids who knew every rocket and every
astronaut," said VanDerClock, who served as an Army intelligence
agent in Vietnam. "But it never occurred to me that there might
be something [else] out there."

The interest in flying saucers was sparked after he saw a
television special on the subject.

"Things started hitting me," he said. "I realized it would have
been very easy to discredit people with legitimate UFO
experiences, and I thought it was worth a second look."

VanDerClock said he does his research early in the morning
before work, late at night, and sometimes on weekends.

"Whatever time I can devote to it I do, as long as it doesn't
interfere with work or take away from my family," said
VanDerClock, who is married with two grade-school age children.

Helene VanDerClock said she supports her husband's pursuit of
"the truth." She's also convinced that UFOs exist.

"I'm not as taken as he is, but it's interesting," she said.
"It's a hobby that he just loves doing, and it relaxes him. And
the kids get a kick out of it."

Since 1995, VanDerClock has lectured before a variety of
audiences. He's spoken at the International UFO Museum in
Roswell, and closer to home has given talks to seniors groups in
Rutherford, Garfield, and Westwood.

VanDerClock also has spoken several times at the Waldwick
Library, where his talks have become a popular event.

"The thing that is interesting is that [the lectures] tend to be
long but he manages to sustain the program," said Waldwick
Library Director Patty Boyd. "He's a wonderful public speaker.
He's very much at ease with the crowd."

VanDerClock's work has also won favorable reviews from fellow
UFO researchers.

"The thing that impresses me is his intensity," said Donald
Burleson, director of the New Mexico chapter of the Mutual UFO
Network, an international organization with more than 3,000
members.

"He works on things with a passion," Burleson said. "When he's
looking into a case, he doesn't rest until he's turned it inside
out and upside down."

VanDerClock said he's not sure exactly who, if anyone, is at the
controls of the spacecraft.

"It's hard to say," VanDerClock said. "Some may be unpiloted.
They may be drone ships. Some may be visitors who are just
observing us."

Given that many sightings are reported near military
installations, VanDerClock said the purpose of many "visits" may
be intelligence gathering.

"A lot of this started in 1947 when we were experimenting with
atomic rockets and missiles," he said. "Maybe they want to see
how far we've progressed with our weapons of mass destruction.
I'm sure anybody out there would be interested in that."

VanDerClock said he's not bent on converting people into
believers. He simply wants to share his point of view.

"I don't pretend to have all the answers," he said. "But I think
I'm on the right track [and] I'm going to fight to find them."

Brian Aberback's e-mail address is aberback@northjersey.com


[UFO UpDates thanks http://www.anomalist.com/ for the lead]






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   Oct > Oct 31

                  NASA Hires Writer To Debunk Apollo Theory

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 17:00:20 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 17:00:20 -0500
Subject: NASA Hires Writer To Debunk Apollo Theory

http://www.galvnews.com/report.lasso?wcd=5535

NASA Hires Writer To Debunk Apollo Theory

By Ted Streuli
The Daily News

Published October 31, 2002

DICKINSON _ Former astronaut Buzz Aldrin, the second person to
walk on the moon, was harassed in Los Angeles last month by a
man who claims NASA faked the six manned lunar landings.

Videographer Bart Sibrel, 37, was four years old when Aldrin
walked on the moon; his own tape of the incident showed him
poking Aldrin with a Bible, demanding that the 72-year-old swear
he really walked on the moon. It also showed Sibrel calling
Aldrin a thief, liar and coward. Aldrin punched him in the face.

The Sept. 9 incident mimicked a broader topic: Sibrel and others
had their theories boosted to a new level of public awareness
when the Fox television network aired its Apollo speculations
nationwide two years ago. Now NASA, with the help of a local
author, journalist and Mission Control veteran, is planning to
land a punch of its own.

Dickinson resident James Oberg, a 22-year Mission Control
veteran, is at work on a 30,000-word monograph to be published
next fall. The monograph will not merely try to debunk the
theories of those who claim NASA faked the six manned lunar
landings, it will also examine how such theories take hold, gain
popularity and spread.

Oberg, author of 12 space-related books and a regular
contributor to ABC News, said he'd lobbied to do the research
for years. The Fox television program finally pushed Roger
Launius, then NASA's chief historian, to commission the work.

Launius said the conspiracy theories were around for years, but
the Fox program changed things.

"Fox put them in a different category," Launius said.

Launius said his office was besieged by requests for information
after the Fox show aired, most of the contact coming from
teachers who wanted to know how to respond to students who saw
the program.

Half the world's population wasn't yet born the last time an
American walked on the moon. Launius said that as more time
passes, the less real the lunar missions seem.

"As time progresses, this gets less and less real to everybody,"
said Launius. "At some level, I think that may be what's
happening here."

Oberg concurred, and added that the conspiracy theories appeal
to "otherwise rational, intelligent people."

"It's not just a few crackpots and their new books and Internet
conspiracy sites," Oberg wrote in 1999. "There are entire
subcultures within the U.S., and substantial cultures around the
world, that strongly believe the landing was faked. I'm told
that this is official dogma still taught in schools in Cuba,
plus wherever else Cuban teachers have been sent (such as
Sandanista Nicaragua and Angola)."

In that same 1999 column, Oberg said the conspiracy theories run
both ways.

"At the other extreme there are also very widespread beliefs
that Apollo accomplished far more than was claimed," wrote
Oberg. "Beyond mere moon rocks, the astronauts are supposed to
have brought back descriptions and photographs of alien vehicles
that followed them and alien structures found on the moon
itself."

Oberg will examine claims that lunar photographs and video
transmission from 1969 are full of inconsistencies.

"Finding the basis for people's beliefs is something NASA wants
me to do," said Oberg. "They just can't understand what the
appeal is. The general feeling was that the people who held this
view were unworthy of dialog. I think that was unseemly and
improper of NASA. People who are puzzled by something deserve an
attempt at an explanation."

Oberg said there's an element of "cultural vandalism" in the
theorists' views. Oberg likened the theories to a vandal
defacing a work of art in order to equalize his standing with
the artist's. He said NASA has a responsibility to make
information available that can't be found on theorist Web sites.

Launius said it was important to acknowledge and answer the
questions, but said an examination of how such theories capture
public interest was a significant part of the project.

"I think it's important that we capture the dynamic of this and
offer a response," Launius said.


[UFO UpDates thanks www.theanomalist.com for the lead]






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                     It's True, Men Really Are From Mars

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 17:03:41 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 17:03:41 -0500
Subject: It's True, Men Really Are From Mars

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,822088,00.html

It's True, Men Really Are From Mars

And so are women, thanks to an invasion by Red Planet microbes

Paul Davies
Wednesday October 30, 2002
The Guardian

A hundred years ago it was widely believed that there was life
on Mars. The American astronomer Percival Lowell even produced
detailed maps of canals he claimed had been constructed by
water-deprived Martians. Then in the 1960s space probes sent to
Mars failed to reveal any sign of life, let alone intelligent
canal-building life. But the coup de grace came in 1977 when the
US space agency Nasa landed two Viking spacecraft on the Martian
surface with the specific aim of searching for signs of
biological activity. Not so much as a bacterium was found. The
surface of Mars appeared to be a freeze-dried desert, utterly
hostile to any form of life.

Today this pessimistic assessment seems too hasty. I believe not
only that Mars has harboured life, but it may actually be the
cradle of life. This conclusion arises because of the recent
discovery that our biosphere extends deep into the bowels of the
Earth. Microbes have been found thriving at depths of several
kilometres, inhabiting the pore spaces of apparently solid rock.
Genetic studies suggest these deep-living organisms are among
the most ancient on the planet. They are, in effect, living
fossils.

Because temperature sharply rises with depth, the subterranean
microbes tend to be extremely heat-tolerant. There is, however,
a limit. Estimates suggest that 150C is probably an upper bound
for life as we know it. After Earth formed about 4.5bn years ago
it remained very hot, both from enhanced radioactivity and the
violence of the planet's birth. Temperatures below ground would
have been lethal, even for heat-loving microbes. On the other
hand the surface was pretty uncongenial too. Astronomers think
that for about 700m years a barrage of giant asteroids pounded
the planet. The big impacts would have swathed the globe with
incandescent rock vapour, boiling the oceans and sterilising the
rock beneath.

By contrast, Mars cooled quicker because it is smaller. The
comfort zone for deep-living, heat-tolerant microbes would have
been deeper sooner. All in all, the Red Planet offered a more
favourable habitat for life during the early history of the
solar system. We don't know where life began, but a kilometre or
two below the surface of Mars seems a good place. How, then, did
life get from Mars to Earth? The answer is straightforward. The
same asteroid impacts that made early life so hazardous also
served to splatter vast quantities of Martian rock around the
solar system. A fraction of this hits Earth; indeed, it does so
today. So far, a couple of dozen meteorites have been found that
can be traced back to Mars.

If there was life on Mars, then it is possible that some Martian
microbes will have hitched a ride inside the ejected rocks and
made their way to Earth. When I suggested this idea about 10
years ago, few scientists took it seriously. They found it
incredible that any form of life could survive being blasted off
a planet and subjected to the inhospitable environment of outer
space. Yet evidence is steadily growing that microbes could
withstand the violence of ejection, the savage radiation of
interplanetary space, as well as the heat of atmospheric re-
entry. Studies of the Martian meteorites show they were not
highly shock-heated when propelled into space. As for the
microbes, cocooned inside rocks a metre or more across, they
would be shielded from the worst effects of radiation.

Initially Mars was the more bio-friendly planet; Earth was a
scalding hell. Once life got going on the Red Planet, it quickly
spread through the subsurface zone - a good refuge from impacts.
However, those microbes living near ground zero of a major
impact would have been flung into orbit round the sun. The lucky
ones, buried deep inside large boulders, could have survived in
space for millions of years. A few of those boulders would, over
such durations, hit the Earth. Although many microbes would
perish in space, and more would die on high-speed entry to
Earth's atmosphere, it would take just one viable organism to
seed our planet with life.

One of the puzzles about life's appearance on Earth is that it
happened so quickly after the bombardment abated about 3.8bn
years ago. There are distinct traces of life in Australia dating
from 3.5bn years ago, and hints of life in rocks from even
earlier times. This is readily explained if life came from Mars.
We can imagine a continuing rain of microbe-laden Martian debris
falling on Earth during the bombardment. As soon as conditions
finally settled down, these colonists would have flourished.
Martian life probably established itself here many times, only
to be destroyed by the next big impact. If I am right, then you
and I are the direct descendants of the first Martians able to
burrow hot and deep, and ride out the remaining fury of the
cosmic bombardment.

=B7 Paul Davies is a member of the Australian Centre for
Astrobiology in Sydney and a visiting professor at Imperial
College. His book The Fifth Miracle: the Search for the Origin
of Life is published by Penguin.

astrobiology@els.mq.edu.au


[UFO UpDates thanks www.theanomalist.com for the lead]







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             NASA Commissions Book To Prove Moon Landing Really

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 17:17:36 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 17:17:36 -0500
Subject: NASA Commissions Book To Prove Moon Landing Really

http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/living/4397818.ht
m

Posted on Tue, Oct. 29, 2002

NASA Commissions Book To Prove Moon Landing Really Happened
By
Seth Borenstein Knight Ridder Newspapers

WASHINGTON - More than 33 years after the United States landed
men on the moon, NASA is spending more than $15,000 to convince
people that it really did happen and that the space agency
didn't make it all up.

Stubborn conspiracy theorists claim that NASA's six Apollo-
  program moon landings were faked. After decades of belittling
and ignoring them, NASA has decided to fight back. It hired
James Oberg, a Houston-based former aerospace engineer and
award-winning author of 10 books on space, to confront skeptics
point by point. Many scientists already have done that on the
Internet, but skeptics remain unconvinced.

"Ignoring it only fans the flames of people who are naturally
suspicious," Oberg said Tuesday in an interview.

Last year, Fox television twice broadcast a show entitled
"Conspiracy Theory: Did We Really Land on the Moon?," and NBC's
"Today" show staged a debate on the topic. Last month Buzz
Aldrin, the second man on the moon, punched a conspiracy
theorist who had been pestering him to swear on a stack of
Bibles that the landing was real.

After the Fox show first aired, NASA put out a one-paragraph
press release titled "Apollo: Yes, We Did."

Yet a 1999 poll found that 11 percent of the American public
doubted the moon landing happened, and Fox officials said such
skepticism increased to about 20 percent after their show, which
was seen by about 15 million viewers.

Stephen Garber, NASA's acting chief historian, said Oberg's 10-
  chapter, 30,000-word monograph "is not going to convince the
people who believe in these myths. Hopefully, it'll speak to
other people who are broad-minded."

The book will expose "space myths writ large (and will) look at
some of these broader issues of how these myths get initiated
and promulgated," Garber said.

Oberg "has got one hell of a job ahead of him," said skeptic
Ralph Rene, a New Jersey carpenter who said he's self-taught in
physics and has self-published two books. One book claims the
moon landing didn't happen; the other criticizes Isaac Newton's
grasp of physics. "I could care less what they do."

"It's a real shame that it has to be done," said Sonoma State
University astronomy professor Phil Plait. He runs the
badastronomy.com Web site, which debunks space myths, including
the moon hoax.

"It's beneath NASA's dignity to give these twinkies the time of
day," Plait said. "The problem is, if you ignore a problem, it
doesn't go away."

But confronting conspiracy theorists usually doesn't convince
them either, said historian Gregory Camp, author of "Selling
Fear: Conspiracy Theories and End-Times Paranoia."

"The true believers in that kind of thing already have the
answers - at least in their eyes," Camp said. "It's incredible
that a book like that has to be written."







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               Re: 'ET Abduction' & Death Of Pennsylvania Man

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 17:06:44 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 17:19:59 -0500
Subject: Re: 'ET Abduction' & Death Of Pennsylvania Man


Ladies & Gentlemen:

Well, yesterday (October 30, 2002) the Press-Enterprise of
Bloomsberg, PA reported that the Northumberland County Coronor
Coroner, James Kelley, listed Todd Sees' cause of death as a
cocaine overdose.

Earlier (October 8) the paper had reported that police had
listed "cocaine toxicity" on their report.


Clear skies,

Bob Young








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              Re: River Edge Man Pursues 'The Truth' About UFOs

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 14:45:00 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 17:50:27 -0500
Subject: Re: River Edge Man Pursues 'The Truth' About UFOs


 >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers -
 >Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 16:52:14 -0500
 >Subject: UFO UpDate: River Edge Man Pursues 'The Truth' About UFOs

 >Source: The Record & Herald - West Paterson New
 >Jersey

 >http://www.bergen.com/page.php?level_3_id=48&page=5491064

 >River Edge Man Pursues 'The Truth' About UFOs

 >Thursday, October 31, 2002

 >By BRIAN ABERBACK
 >Staff Writer

<snip>

Not a bad article, but what's the point (other than for a local
paper to score a "human interest" piece)?

It's nice to know there are reasonable, intelligent people in
the world who ask serious questions about "off-limits" subjects,
but I failed to detect any "meat" in this piece.

=====
Mac Tonnies (macbot@yahoo.com)

Transcelestial Ontology and Postmillennial Studies
http://mactonnies.com







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               Re: NASA Commissions Book To Prove Moon Landing

From: YoungBob2@aol.com
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 17:53:58 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 18:09:26 -0500
Subject: Re: NASA Commissions Book To Prove Moon Landing


From:   ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto)
Date:   10/31/2002 5:18:28 PM Eastern Standard Time
Subj:    UFO UpDate: NASA Commissions Book To Prove Moon Landing Really
Happened

 >Source: SiliconValley.com

 >http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/living/4397818.htm

 >Posted on Tue, Oct. 29, 2002

 >NASA Commissions Book To Prove Moon Landing Really
 >Happened
 >By
 >Seth Borenstein Knight Ridder Newspapers

 >>From: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto)
 >>Subj: UFO UpDate: NASA Hires Writer To Debunk Apollo Theory
 >>Date: 10/31/2002 5:01:24 PM Eastern Standard Time

 >>Source: The Daily News - Galveston, Texas

 >>http://www.galvnews.com/report.lasso?wcd=5535

 >>NASA Hires Writer To Debunk Apollo Theory

 >>By Ted Streuli
 >>The Daily News

Ladies & Gents:

Notice how the two headlines, probably written by headline
writers and not even by the authors or editors of the articles,
change the entire meaning.  "Debunk" is more accurate. Obviously
NASA never felt it necessary to have James Oberg "prove" we
landed on the Moon, nor do I.


Clear Skies,

Bob Young







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                        Expelled From UT Ph.D Program

From: W.H.Clark <btubill@mindspring.com>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 11:02:51 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 18:32:31 -0500
Subject: Expelled From UT Ph.D Program


[Non-Subscriber Post]

I'm writing to ask for your support in my appeal to being
expelled from the Ph.D program of the Aerospace Engineering
Department at the University of Texas at Austin last December.
  In the appeals process since then, it has been firmly
established that the only reason I was dismissed was because
they did not like my research - and my fascination with UFO's.
  I had passed all the coursework required for a Ph.D with a 3.8
GPA, and passed my written qualifying exams.

My research is the Feature Article of the 2002 Winter edition of
the AIAA Student Journal.  This same research was evaluated by
NASA, "Your concepts about the Unified Field Theory appear to be
so profound that you are years ahead of the current scientific
thinking in the areas in which you delved."  The last part of
this paper on the "Inverse Problem of Celestial Mechanics" is a
mathematical proof of anti-gravity.

I have my research on the web at:

http://btubill.home.mindspring.com

There is also complete statement of all the University has done
to silence me - it's all the proof you need that UFO's exist.
  Additional background information is in my autobiography
"Behold Leviathan" linked from my resume page to the publishers,
1st Books.


Regards,

Bill Clark, P.E.









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                              Cosmic Top Secret

From: Anthony Cipoletta <cipey@attbi.com>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 19:04:44 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 20:04:06 -0500
Subject: Cosmic Top Secret


In reference to the COSMIC TOP SECRET CLEARANCE:

I was the PA Petty Officer and Weps Security Petty Officer
aboard the USS Darter (SS-576) from '86-'88 and had a very high
security clearance. According to the DoD and NSA there are only
4 levels of Security

TOP SECRET
SECRET
CONFIDENTIAL
and
FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY

Along with that clearance one also has to have an official NEED
TO KNOW for that particular material. Meaning two people may
have a TS clearance but do not have the Need to Know of a
certain subject they cannot gain access to that material. In
some cases in very sensitive cases an EYES ONLY may also be
issued pertaining to certain material. Also having any clearance
Secret and above, one be part of and participate willingly or
unwillingly in the PREP (Personnel Reliability Program) Which is
personality monitoring program.

So basically there is not any SUPER TOP SECRET or Extra Top
Secret security clearances. They do not, nor have they ever
existed. Anyone who has ever held a security clearance can tell
you that.







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                             Mars Face At Night

From: Kurt Jonach - The Electric Warrior
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 15:43:59 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 20:07:39 -0500
Subject: Mars Face At Night



--------------------------------------------------

The Electric Warrior : Web Log October 31, 2002
http://www.electricwarrior.com/

--------------------------------------------------
MARS FACE AT NIGHT
martian enigmas

image: Mars Face, Nighttime Infrared

http://www.electricwarrior.com/mol/MarsFaceNight.jpg

(The Electric Warrior) - Mars anomaly researchers who have been
clamoring for a night time infrared image of Cydonia got their
wish today, just in time for Halloween.

So what does this thing look like at night and why is it
important? In this image, the notorious Face on Mars is very
difficult to distinguish from the surrounding terrain, unless
you know where to look. Mars anomaly researchers hope that a
night time infrared image will provide clues about whether or
not the landform is artificial, indicating the presence of
extraterrestrial intelligence beyond Earth.

The Face is circled in the photo that accompanies this blog.

The feature is much easier to see during the day in a photo
shown side-by-side with this new THEMIS data. According to the
Arizona State University team, "This knob can be seen in the
daytime image because of the temperature differences between the
sunlit (warm and bright) and shadowed (cold and dark) slopes."

The online ASU article concludes that recent NASA missions like
Mars Global Surveyor and Mars Odyssey have provided detailed
views of the hill which show that it is a normal geologic
feature.

Mars Cydonia researchers have awaited this nighttime image to
see if it reveals anything peculiar. Electric warriors await
further analysis.

--------------------------------------------------
RELATED RESOURCES

31-Oct-02
The so-called 'Face on Mars' at night
http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20021031A.html

(NASA/ASU) - This pair of THEMIS infrared images shows the so-
called "face on Mars" landform viewed during both the day and
night. The nighttime THEMIS IR image was acquired on Oct. 24,
2002; the daytime image was originally released on July 24,
2002... The 3-km long 'face' knob was first imaged by the Viking
spacecraft in the 1970's... Since that time the Mars Orbiter
Camera on the Mars Global Surveyor spacecraft and the THEMIS
visible and infrared cameras on Mars Odyssey have provided
detailed views of this hill that clearly show that it is a
normal geologic feature.

--------------------------------------------------
THE ELECTRIC WARRIOR
October 31, 2002
Silicon Valley, CA
http://www.electricwarrior.com

Graphics & Gonzo

--------------------------------------------------
The Mars Nighttime Infrared image is courtesy of
NASA/JPL/ASU

This text is freely distributable for non-commercial purposes,
provided you cite The Electric Warrior. Web developers should
link here...

http://www.electricwarrior.com

The Electric Warrior is not responsible for the content of Web
links. Content reproduced here is for informational purposes
only. All copyrights Acknowledged.

eWarrior@electricwarrior.com








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               Re: 'ET Abduction' & Death Of Pennsylvania Man

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 20:04:43 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 20:10:09 -0500
Subject: Re: 'ET Abduction' & Death Of Pennsylvania Man


 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net (UFO UpDates - Toronto)
 >Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 17:06:44 EST
 >Subject: Re: 'ET Abduction' & Death Of Pennsylvania Man Reported

 >Ladies & Gentlemen:

 >Well, yesterday (October 30, 2002) the Press-Enterprise of
 >Bloomsberg, PA reported that the Northumberland County Coronor
 >Coroner, James Kelley, listed Todd Sees' cause of death as a
 >cocaine overdose.

 >Earlier (October 8) the paper had reported that police had
 >listed "cocaine toxicity" on their report.


Hi Bob,

This one have you worried? I see you posted it to both UpDates
and P-47. Massive overdose it seems.

One hopes the local police will look a little deeper into this
one. Was foul play mentioned? Probably none of our business but
the whole scenario stinks.


Don Ledger







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                      Inexplicata's Fourth Anniversary

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 06:39:03 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 20:39:21 -0500
Subject: Inexplicata's Fourth Anniversary


It was on a day much like today, four years ago, that the
concept of Inexplicata was born. Not a bulletin with the latest
news and views of ufology - a task at which its predecessor,
Samizdat, had failed due to the arrival of the Internet - but a
forum for longer articles and essays by Latin America and
Spain's foremost UFO and paranormal researchers.

On behalf of the Inexplicata team and IHU, I would like to take
this opportunity to thank you for your support and interest in
our endeavors. Here's to the next four years (at least).

Sincerely,

Scott Corrales

http://www.inexplicata.com/










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                      Re: Cosmic Top Secret - Friedman

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 21:41:59 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 21:25:55 -0500
Subject: Re: Cosmic Top Secret - Friedman


 >From: Anthony Cipoletta <cipey@attbi.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Cosmic Top Secret
 >Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 19:04:44 -0500

 >In reference to the COSMIC TOP SECRET CLEARANCE:

 >I was the PA Petty Officer and Weps Security Petty Officer
 >aboard the USS Darter (SS-576) from '86-'88 and had a very high
 >security clearance. According to the DoD and NSA there are only
 >4 levels of Security

 >TOP SECRET
 >SECRET
 >CONFIDENTIAL
 >and
 >FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY

 >Along with that clearance one also has to have an official NEED
 >TO KNOW for that particular material. Meaning two people may
 >have a TS clearance but do not have the Need to Know of a
 >certain subject they cannot gain access to that material. In
 >some cases in very sensitive cases an EYES ONLY may also be
 >issued pertaining to certain material. Also having any clearance
 >Secret and above, one be part of and participate willingly or
 >unwillingly in the PREP (Personnel Reliability Program) Which is
 >personality monitoring program.

 >So basically there is not any SUPER TOP SECRET or Extra Top
 >Secret security clearances. They do not, nor have they ever
 >existed. Anyone who has ever held a security clearance can tell
 >you that.


Technically the above statement is true but frankly misleading
on three counts:

1. There was a NATO clearance COSMIC TOP SECRET.I saw some
formerly CTS documents from the Eisenhower Library.

2. People have clearances, but there are plenty of documents
which are classified TOP SECRET Code Word. For example the code
word might be UMBRA or ULTRA or MAJIC. Having a TS clearance
would not gain one access to these documents. One must be read
into these special Access programs.

The level of investigation with regard to background etc might
be the same for all TS clearances, but in effect the code word
adds another level of clearance and substantially restricts
access.

3. The GAO, in its search for Roswell related documents, noted
on page 80 of their 400+ page overview background package that
they had noted documents classified TOP SECRET RESTRICTED even
though they had been told (Majestic 12) that no such designation
was in use at the time (1954).

I had also noted, in Archives, documents classified as SECRET
RESTRICTED and CONFIDENTIAL RESTRICTED..... When I worked on
classified programs relating to nuclear activities, one very
frequently saw SECRET RESTRICTED DATA and CONFIDENTIAL
RESTRICTED DATA on classified documents.

In addition I required a Q clearance which was normally thought
of as being somewhere between SECRET and TOP SECRET.


Stan Friedman








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                  Re: UFOs: Seeking the Truth Through Savvy

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 18:07:10 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 21:29:07 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs: Seeking the Truth Through Savvy


 >From: John Cussen <john.cussen@btopenworld.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 00:33:04 +0000
 >Subject: Re: UFOs: Seeking the Truth Through Savvy Marketing

 >>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers -
 >>Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 18:14:07 -0500
 >>Subject: UFOs: Seeking the Truth Through Savvy Marketing

 >>http://www.space.com/news/ufo_poll_021025.html

 >>UFOs: Seeking the Truth Through Savvy Marketing By Leonard
 >>David Senior Space Writer

<snip>

 >>This week, calls for the U.S. government to be more forthcoming
 >>on what it knows about UFOs increased following the release of
 >>the poll results. That RoperASW study, sponsored by the SCI FI
 >>Channel, shows that 72% of Americans believe the government is
 >>not telling the public everything it knows about UFO activity.

 >Well, I have to say "savvy marketing" because what this poll
 >actually shows is that the test group from which these
 >statistics were drawn is incredibly disproportionate to the
 >actual size of the American population, and therefore without
 >the justification for the headline-grabbing figures of "72%
 >think THIS".

 >The test group was 1,021 people who were contacted by telephone
 >- let's ignore for now the general response of most people when
 >they are disturbed by what, for all intents and purposes, is a
 >telemarketer; namely "Oh yes, I'll give you an answer that will
 >get you off the phone as quickly as possible". So, 1,021 people
 >out of a population of around 250 MILLION people.

It's called a representative sample. It's done all the time, not
only with opinion polls but also in industry for quality control
and in every science you can name.

 >The mathematics show the problem with these kinds of straw
 >polls, assuming the population of America is 250 million:

The mathematics show the problem is with poster probably not
having a clue about mathematics.

 >1. 1,021 people were polled

 >2. 1,021 people is just 0.0004% of the population

 >3. 72% of the population is 180 million people

 >4. 72% of the actual number of people polled is 735 people

 >5. Therefore, analysing the actual number of people asked the
 >question, 735 people (which is 0.0003% of the entire population)
 >believe the government is not telling the public everything it
 >knows about UFO activity... but this isn't such a great headline
 >grabber!

 >Maybe the other 249,999,000 or so people weren't at home when
 >the phone rang...

 >Best wishes and good humour to all,

I don't know if the above post was intended as a joke or not.
But if not, it is typical of the incredibly inane, pseudo-
  scientific clap-trap that regularly emerges from the British
pelicanists. If not a joke, then this guy is badly in need of a
basic course in statistics.

Sampling is at the heart of statistics and basically says that
you can get a very good idea about the nature of any population
as a whole by sampling a representative fraction of it. Thus if
a drug company wants to get a good idea about the efficacy and
safety of a new drug, it isn't necessary to test it on all 6
billion human beings on planet Earth. Testing on 1000 to 10,000
people will usually be quite sufficient.

What does change with the sample size is the expected margin of
error caused by random fluctuations. This decreases as the
square root of the sample size. In designing a statistical test,
the point is to choose a practical sample size that gives you
results within a desired degree of precision. The degree of
precision can always be increased by increasing the sample size.

Suppose one wants to test the fairness of a coin. When flipping
a fair coin multiple times, one expects the coin to come up
heads or tails an equal number of times on average. If the coin
is tossed 100 times, we would expect about 50 heads and 50
tails. But random fluctuations will typically cause deviations
from exactly 50/50. The square root of 100 is 10, and 10/100 is
10%. Thus the expected margin of error is 10% and the number of
heads (or tails) will tend to lie within +/- 10% of the expected
result. In any random flipping of a coin 100 times, the number
of heads will very likely lie between 40 and 60.

If, however, we up the number of coin flips to 1000, then the
square root is about 31, and the expected margin of error falls
to 31/1000 or about +/- 3%. Thus the number of times one gets
heads or tails is most likely to lie between about 470 and 530
times, or 47% - 53%.

If the number of flips was upped to 10,000, the margin of error
drops to 100/10,000 or +/- 1%. Now we expect in the bulk of coin
flippings that the percentage of heads and tails to fall between
49% and 51%.

If the number of flips was increased to 1,000,000, the margin of
error would drop to 0.1%, etc., etc. It certainly wouldn't be
necessary to toss the coin 250 million times to determine
whether or not the coin was fair. 1000 tosses would give you a
very good indication, and 10,000 tosses even better.

The exact same principles apply to opinion polling. A sample of
about 1000 people is quite typical of most opinion polls. This
is large enough to have a relative small margin of error (about
3%) yet small enough to be economically practical.

Applied to the Roper poll result of 72% feeling the government
is withholding information on UFOs, it could be, because of
random fluctuations, that only 69% of the population as a whole
felt that way, or maybe as much as 75%. Both extremes would be
within the 3% expected margin of error. Furthermore, statistics
would indicate that the result would fall between 69% and 75%
over two-thirds of the time.

The "true" figure could fall outside this range, but only about
one-third of the time. Add another 3% onto the error margin, and
the range would be 66-78%. Statistically one expects the result
to fall in this range over 95% of the time. And 99.8% of the
time, the result would lie between 63% and 81%. Thus it can be
stated with a very high degree of certainty, approaching 100%,
that over 60% of the population thinks the government is
withholding information on UFOs.

The main problems in opinion polling are getting a
representative sample of the population and stating the polling
questions properly. Thus when asking people about who they are
voting for for President, the poll numbers will be highly
inaccurate if only Democrats or Republicans are polled instead
of a sample with the about the same proportion of Democrats to
Republicans in the general population. The sample can't be
biased for the results to be accurate, such as polling a UFO
convention or a group of British pelicanists. All polling
organizations, however, are well aware of the problem and very
careful in choosing their polling samples.

More of a problem, however, is how the polling questions get
phrased. Slightly different phrasing can yield very different
results. Ask the population as to whether they believe there is
other intelligent life in the Universe and you will probably get
a much higher percent of affirmatives then if you ask whether we
are now being visited by space aliens.

In the Roper poll, the 72% figure does not necessarily mean that
everyone answering in the affirmative believes that the
government is withholding information on being visited by
aliens. Some fraction might feel, e.g., that information might
be withheld because the "UFO" represents something human, such
as a secret government project or an incursion by a foreign
government or something similar. Unfortunately, polls rarely
probe very deeply often leaving some ambiguity in the results.

Also, to state the obvious, polls only tell us what people
believe or think, and thus of only limited use in determining
"reality." Polls also show nearly 50% of the American population
believes in creationism. That tells us how many might be willing
to support putting "creation science" into school curriculums,
but is not a very good way to determine what is good science.
72% of the population thinking the government is withholding
information on UFOs certainly doesn't prove anything other than
a large fraction of the population feels this way.

However, claiming one needs to ask every single American to get
an accurate gauge of public opinion is utter nonsense. Where do
people get such ideas?


David Rudiak