The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan UFO UpDates Mailing List Jan 2003 Jan 1: UFO UpDates Archive Top 20 Reads 2002 - UFO UpDates - Toronto [101] Puerto Rico: Chupacabras Resembles Extinct Animal - Scott Corrales [51] Abductee Stan Romanek? - Joachim Koch [9] Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - Hale - Roy Hale [50] Latest On Seiko The Plagiarist - Larry Hatch [96] Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or - Bob Young [30] Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or - Bob Young [21] Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [84] Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or - Bob Young [30] Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - Young - Bob Young [12] Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - Hale - Roy Hale [97] Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - Jones - Sean Jones [18] Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or - Jim Speiser [26] Rendlesham 2 UFO Crash - Eric Morris [48] Combat Diary Number 2 - Colin Bennett [212] 'Time Storms' by Jenny Randles - Mac Tonnies [14] Re: Frank Kaufmann Exposed - Sparks - Brad Sparks [411] Re: Rendlesham Forest - 12/1980 - Bowden - Tom Bowden [29] Re: Security Classifications - Friedman - Stanton Friedman [198] Anomaly Foundation Site English Highlights 02-03 - Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos [56] Re: 2002 Humanoid Reports - Peterborough - Kelly Peterborough [16] UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 1 - John Hayes [640] FILER'S FILES #01 -- 2003 - George A. Filer [523] Re: Corso - Aldrich - Jan Aldrich [310] Request for Declassification Review/Release - - Larry W. Bryant [70] Jan 2: Alien-ated Youth - UFO UpDates - Toronto [409] Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - McGonagle - Joe McGonagle [88] Re: Hynek & Swamp Gas - Cohen - Jerry Cohen [62] Chile: Retired General Discusses Encounter - Scott Corrales [53] Rainbow File? - Laurel Oplatka [12] Puerto Rico: Skywatching Hoaxer Exposed! - Tom King [9] Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - Rimmer - John Rimmer [14] Re: Combat Diary Number 2 - Connors - Wendy Connors [26] Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or - Steven Kaeser [25] Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or - Tom Bowden [29] Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - Connors - Wendy Connors [14] Re: Abductee Stan Romanek? - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [12] Re: Request for Declassification Review/Release - - Brad Sparks [92] Re: Security Classifications - Aldrich - Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net [265] Re: Hynek? - Cohen - Jerry Cohen [30] Jan 3: C.E.: Interesting UFO Photos/Story - Chaz Stuart [3] Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - Gates - Robert Gates [82] Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - McGonagle - Joe McGonagle [76] Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - McGonagle - Joe McGonagle [26] Campaign For A UK National UFO Authority - Joe McGonagle [23] The Top Twenty Cryptozoology Stories of 2002 - Loren Coleman [5] UFO Sightings Expected - UFO UpDates - Toronto [28] Atmosphere Makes Sirius Dance - UFO UpDates - Toronto [46] Kelly Green Men - UFO UpDates - Toronto [149] UFO Sightings Expected - UFO UpDates - Toronto [28] Cloning A Previous Hoax? - UFO UpDates - Toronto [146] How Do You Spot An Alien? - UFO UpDates - Toronto [35] Looking For Little Green Men In Shag Harbour - UFO UpDates - Toronto [32] Raelians UFOland - UFO UpDates - Toronto [158] Stan Romanek Case - Jim Cash [32] Re: Raelians UFOland - Bourdais - Gildas Bourdais [48] Re: s Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - Hale - Roy Hale [11] Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - Hale - Roy Hale [17] Re: Stan Romanek Case - King - Tom King [49] Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or - John Velez [72] Re: Atmosphere Makes Sirius Dance - Ledger - Don Ledger [42] Re: Campaign For A UK National UFO Authority - - Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos [41] Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or - Bob Young [33] Re: Atmosphere Makes Sirius Dance - Young - Bob Young [37] Re: The Top Twenty Cryptozoology Stories of 2002 - - Richard Hall [12] Jan 4: Re: The Top Twenty Cryptozoology Stories of 2002 - - Loren Coleman [46] Bob Young [was: Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon... ] - Richard Hall [57] Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - Gates - Robert Gates [44] Re: Rainbow File? - Gates - Robert Gates [33] Comments From Roswell UFO Museum - Stanton Friedman [92] Re: Security Classifications - Oplatka - Laurel Oplatka [35] Re: Atmosphere Makes Sirius Dance - Ledger - Don Ledger [42] Re: UFO UpDate: C.E.: Interesting UFO Photos/Story - Tom Bowden [22] Re: Bob Young - Velez - John Velez [63] Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - McGonagle - Joe McGonagle [35] Re: Campaign For A UK National UFO Authority - - Joe McGonagle [54] Re: Anomaly Foundation Site English Highlights - Larry Hatch [52] UFO Capital Of 'The Northern Territory' - Stig Agermose [30] Old Time Ufology Query - Andy Roberts [22] P-47: Bentwaters 1956 New Testimony - David Clarke [178] Inside One UFO Hunter's 'Waking Dream' - Stig Agermose [347] Re: Security Classifications - Friedman - Stanton Friedman [56] UFO Cult Says World's Second 'Cloned' Baby Is Born - Loren Coleman [2] Raelian Story Deserved UFO-Caliber Coverage - Loren Coleman [69] Re: UFO Capital Of 'The Northern Territory' - - Tom Bowden [20] Re: Bob Young - Young - Bob Young [54] Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or - Bob Young [26] Re: Corso - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [30] Re: Security Classifications - Friedman - Stanton Friedman [295] Jan 5: Plate With Alleged Alien Characteristics - Stig Agermose [59] Re: Bob Young - Velez - John Velez [105] Re: Old Time Ufology Query - Hatch - Larry Hatch [28] Re: Stan Romanek Case - Kelly - Jim Kelly [22] 'Las Vegas Weekly' Interviews Clonaid Vice - Stig Agermose [347] Re: Atmosphere Makes Sirius Dance - Olmos - Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos [62] Re: UFO Capital Of 'The Northern Territory' - Hatch - Larry Hatch [44] Re: Comments From Roswell UFO Museum - Gates - Robert Gates [86] Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - Lemire - Todd Lemire [72] Re: C.E.: Interesting UFO Photos/Story - Lemire - Todd Lemire [34] Re: Frank Kaufmann Exposed - Hutchinson - Bruce Hutchinson [129] Jan 6: Re: UFO Capital Of 'The Northern Territory' - - Diane Harrison [33] The Strange Case Of The Suffolk Spaceship - Roy Hale [4] Levengood Credentials - Dave Haith [192] Re: Corso - Gehrman - Ed Gehrman [67] Re: Inside One UFO Hunter's 'Waking Dream' - - Bruce Maccabee [26] Woman Says Her Car Was Hit By UFO - Stig Agermose [43] Video Shows UFO Over Azeri Capital - Stig Agermose [20] International Petition To UN For UFO Info - John Velez [12] Puerto Rico: FAFROTSKIES - Scott Corrales [20] NASA & UFOs? - Thiago Luiz Ticchetti [9] Secrecy News -- 01/06/03 - Steven Aftergood [121] Re: Comments From Roswell UFO Museum - Houran - Jim Houran [32] Meanwhile Back In The Jungle - Scott Corrales [189] UFO videotapes 4 Sale - Cheap! - John Velez [45] Re: Corso - Gehrman - Ed Gehrman [206] Re: Puerto Rico: FAFROTSKIES - Hall - Richard Hall [25] Jan 7: Re: Atmosphere Makes Sirius Dance - Young - Bob Young [34] Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - McGonagle - Joe McGonagle [74] Re: The Strange Case Of The Suffolk Spaceship - - Joe McGonagle [17] Re: Frank Kaufmann Exposed - Gates - Robert Gates [149] Re: Bob Young - Young - Bob Young [77] Re: Corso - Gates - Robert Gates [259] Re: NASA & UFOs? - Garlits - Don Garlits [13] No Water On Mars? - John W. Auchettl [59] Australian Black Projects Worth? - John W. Auchettl [38] Re: Comments From Roswell UFO Museum - Sandow - Greg Sandow [59] Re: Corso - Aldrich - Jan Aldrich [300] UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 2 - John Hayes [479] Jan 8: World Exclusive From UFO Magazine UK - Mark Doulton [43] Re: Corso - Sandow - Greg Sandow [38] Re: C.E.: Interesting UFO Photos/Story - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [39] Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [44] Re: NASA & UFOs? - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [14] Re: Corso - Gehrman - Ed Gehrman [172] Re: Corso - Gehrman - Ed Gehrman [29] Re: Frank Kaufmann Exposed - Rudiak - David Rudiak [325] Re: C.E.: Interesting UFO Photos/Story - Speiser - Jim Speiser [14] Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 2 - Shough - Martin Shough [64] Casey Holt, MN MUFON Field Investigator Passes - Joel Henry [19] FILER'S FILES #2 -- 2003 - George A. Filer [483] Re: Corso - Hall - Richard Hall [55] Re: Corso - Sandow - Greg Sandow [19] Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - Lemire - Todd Lemire [58] Re: Corso - Randle - Kevin Randle [41] Re: Corso - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [68] Secrecy News -- 01/08/03 - Steven Aftergood [77] CCCRN News: Another 2002 Formation - Paul Anderson [64] C.E.: Worldwide UFO Wave Prediction 03-15-03 - Don Johnson [18] Re: Corso - Hall - Richard Hall [48] Re: C.E.: Worldwide UFO Wave Prediction 03-15-03 - - Richard Hall [33] Jan 9: Re: C.E.: Worldwide UFO Wave Prediction 03-15-03 - - Wendy Connors [35] Re: Corso - Kimball - Paul Kimball [35] Podesta Statement 10-22-02 Transcript - Grant Cameron [102] Einstein Right: Gravity Fast As Light - UFO UpDates - Toronto [43] Papua New Guinea - UFOs Reported To Police - UFO UpDates - Toronto [23] Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? - UFO UpDates - Toronto [72] How To Invade The Planet And Be Taken Seriously - UFO UpDates - Toronto [57] UFOs Over Runcorn UK - Eric Morris [32] For Your Collection - Loren Coleman [7] Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? - - Steven Kaeser [16] Re: Bob Young - Velez - John Velez [107] Re: Corso - Gehrman - Ed Gehrman [102] Re: Corso - Bennett - Colin Bennett [277] Heflin Photos? - Laurel Oplatka [10] Re: Heflin Photos? - Hall - Richard Hall [22] Jan 10: 2002 BC Cattle Mutes & UFO Sightings - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [25] Documentary 'The Secret' - Stan Friedman [19] Scottish TV Presenter Claims Close Encounter - Stig Agermose [30] Re: Heflin Photos? - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [23] Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 2 - Ledger - Don Ledger [102] Re: For Your Collection - Deschamps - Michel M. Deschamps [16] Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? - - Larry Hatch [65] Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? - - Steven Kaeser [46] Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? - - John Velez [76] Secrecy News -- 01/10/03 - Steven Aftergood [139] Re: Corso - Gehrman - Ed Gehrman [191] Jan 9: Re: Corso - Hall - Richard Hall [36] Jan 10: Re: Corso - Hall - Colin Bennett [52] Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? - - Jim Speiser [51] Re: Corso - Randle - Kevin Randle [31] Re: Corso - Jones - Sean Jones [32] 'Politics of the Imagination' by Colin Bennet - Mac Tonnies [31] Any Thoughts....? - Keith Chester [37] Re: Corso - Hall - Richard Hall [84] Re: Corso - Hall - Richard Hall [42] Citizen Hearing Press Release - 01-13-02 - Stephen Bassett [56] Jan 11: Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? - - Steven Kaeser [19] Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer - Grant Cameron [10] 'Strange Days... Indeed' - New Start Time - UFO UpDates - Toronto [7] Re: Stan Romanek Case - Cash - Jim Cash [21] Orville The Anti-Gravity Mouse - Kurt Jonach - The Electric Warrior [90] Corso - The Final Analysis - Robert Gates [71] Re: Corso - Auchettl - John W. Auchettl [17] Re: Corso - Auchettl - John W. Auchettl [28] The Last Of The 2002 HBCC UFO Reports - Brain Vike - HBCC UFO [49] Re: Corso - Auchettl - John W. Auchettl [82] Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? - - Larry Hatch [15] Italian UFO Newsflash No. 379 - Edoardo Russo [81] Daily Mail Article On Alien Abductions - Nick Pope [25] New Crater Revives Moon Mystery - Steven L. Wilson Sr [44] Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? - - Bill Hamilton [20] Re: C.E.: Worldwide UFO Wave Prediction 03-15-03 - - Hannes la Rue [30] Re: Corso - Hall - Richard Hall [20] Re: Corso - Chapman - Mary Chapman [27] Re: Corso - Sandow - Greg Sandow [111] New Info On 1973 High Strangeness Case - Albert Rosales [64] Re: Corso - Gehrman - Ed Gehrman [30] Re: Corso - Ledger - Don Ledger [32] Re: Daily Mail Article On Alien Abductions - Clarke - David Clarke [45] Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? - - Don Ledger [32] Re: Corso - Gates - Robert Gates [30] Worldwide UFO Datbase [was: Re: C.E.: Worldwide - Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos [55] Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? - - Stanton Friedman [53] Re: Stan Romanek Case - Kelly - Jim Kelly [47] Re: World Exclusive From UFO Magazine UK - Fleming - Lan Fleming [53] Re: Corso - Gates - Robert Gates [108] Re: Corso - Friedman - Stanton Friedman [46] Re: Corso - Hall - Richard Hall [52] Jan 12: Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer - Myers - Royce J. Myers III - The Watchdog [22] Re: Daily Mail Article On Alien Abductions - Ledger - Don Ledger [26] Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? - - Steven Kaeser [66] Preserving The Marcelian Revelation On Roswell - Larry W. Bryant [348] Italian UFO Newsflash No. 380 - Edoardo Russo [160] London Daily Mail On 'Taken' - UFO UpDates - Toronto [269] Re: Levengood Credentials - Speiser - Jim Speiser [51] Re: Corso - The Final Analysis - Jones - Sean Jones [33] Re: Corso - Oplatka - Laurel Oplatka [16] Re: Daily Mail Article On Alien Abductions - Harney - John Harney [115] Re: Corso - Gehrman - Ed Gehrman [83] Jan 13: PRG Update - January 13, 2003 - Stephen G. Bassett [112] Jan 12: Re: Corso - Speiser - Jim Speiser [24] Jan 13: Re: Corso - Bennett - Colin Bennett [412] Budd Hopkins' UFO Seminar Announcement - 01-25-03 - Intruders Foundation [60] Re: Corso - Randle - Kevin Randle [98] Re: C.E.: Worldwide UFO Wave Prediction 03-15-03 - - Don Johnson [38] Jan 12: Re: Security Classifications - Friedman - Stan Friedman [31] Jan 13: Re: Corso - Friedman - Stanton Friedman [93] Secrecy News -- 01/13/03 - Steven Aftergood [142] Re: Daily Mail Article On Alien Abductions - Clarke - David Clarke [57] Re: Corso - Gehrman - Ed Gehrman [83] PRG Update - January 13, 2003 Correction - UFO UpDates - Toronto [10] Re: Corso - Gehrman - Ed Gehrman [83] Mexico: Maussan's New Extraterrestrial - Scott Corrales [38] Re: Corso - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [29] Re: Corso - Ed Gehrman - Ed Gehrman [137] Re: Mexico: Maussan's New Extraterrestrial - Myers - Royce J. Myers III - The Watchdog [35] Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer - Seguin - Trevor Seguin [38] Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 2 - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [33] Re: Daily Mail Article On Alien Abductions - Ledger - Don Ledger [40] Re: Daily Mail Article On Alien Abductions - Ledger - Don Ledger [67] Re: Corso - Bennett - Colin Bennett [27] Elite Planet-Hunter Sleuths Worlds For Cal - UFO UpDates - Toronto [160] Flying Saucer Society Sought Peak Experience On - UFO UpDates - Toronto [136] Should Media Have Covered Raelians' Cloning - UFO UpDates - Toronto [411] Jan 14: Re: Corso - Oplatka - Laurel Oplatka [44] Inquiring Mind's Don't Want To Know - GT McCoy [9] Re: Corso - Kimball - Paul Kimball [55] Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer - Heath - Gord Heath [34] Validating The Ramey Memo [was: Spielberg's Take - David Rudiak [317] Re: Corso - Gates - Robert Gates [36] Postcard Follow-up To FOIA Appeal - 01-14-03 - Larry W. Bryant [22] Effective Lobbying And Public Education - Ed Case [48] An Abduction Checklist - Michael Harman [132] Re: Corso - Speiser - Jim Speiser [16] Re: Corso - Hall - Richard Hall [31] Re: Corso - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [59] Jan 15: Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer - Ledger - Don Ledger [37] Secrecy News -- 01/14/03 - Steven Aftergood [113] Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Hall - Richard Hall [251] Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? - - Stanton Friedman [68] Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer - Seguin - Trevor Seguin [67] UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 3 - John Hayes [480] Re: Effective Lobbying And Public Education - - Keith Rowell [44] Re: Corso - Gates - Robert Gates [22] Mission: Identify Those Flying Objects - UFO UpDates - Toronto [138] Many Share Theories Over Bra Fence 'UFO' - UFO UpDates - Toronto [39] Re: An Abduction Checklist - Gates - Robert Gates [24] Re: Story Of The Pole Deer - Hatch - Larry Hatch [40] Re: n Abduction Checklist - Sanchez-Ocejo - Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo [31] Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? - - Bill Hamilton [52] FILER'S FILES #3 -- 2003 - George A. Filer [513] Fighting The Fear Factor - UFO UpDates - Toronto [474] CCCRN News: 'Star Dreams' Film Premiere In - Paul Anderson [61] Re: An Abduction Checklist - Tonnies - Mac Tonnies [40] Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? - - Mac Tonnies [28] Re: An Abduction Checklist - Jones - Sean Jones [18] Re: Levengood Credentials - Talbot - Nancy Talbott [50] Re: An Abduction Checklist - Tonnies - Mac Tonnies [43] Re: An Abduction Checklist - Hall - Richard Hall [43] Secrecy News -- 01/15/03 - Steven Aftergood [119] Re: Fighting The Fear Factor - Hall - Richard Hall [16] Jan 16: SDI's Leslie Kean Interview - UFO UpDates - Toronto [3] Dolan Article Marginality & Taboo - George Hansen [51] Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer - McCoy - GT McCoy [36] Re: Corso - Bennett - Colin Bennett [381] Rendlesham 2 - Eric Morris [103] Re: Dolan Article Marginality & Taboo - Tonnies - Mac Tonnies [24] Re: Corso - Roberts - Andy Roberts [92] Jan 17: (Lester B.) Pearson Intrigued by UFOs - UFO UpDates - Toronto [68] Secrecy News -- 01/16/03 - Steven Aftergood [137] Re: Corso - Hall - Richard Hall [89] Re: Corso - Bennett - Colin Bennett [123] Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer - Speiser - Jim Speiser [14] Re: Levengood Credentials - Speiser - Jim Speiser [46] Re: Corso - Oplatka - Laurel Oplatka [40] Re: Corso - Hansen - George Hansen [33] Re: An Abduction Checklist - Gates - Robert Gates [72] Re: An Abduction Checklist - Gates - Robert Gates [35] Washington Post Articles Of Interest - Steven Kaeser [15] National Review Online On UFO Cults - GT McCoy [7] Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer - Ledger - Don Ledger [20] Re: Corso - Tonnies - Mac Tonnies [40] Cloning Claim Concerns UFO Researchers - UFO UpDates - Toronto [36] Is This Really An Alien Craft? - UFO UpDates - Toronto [66] Mysterious Circles Caused By Mother Nature - UFO UpDates - Toronto [67] Something In The Air Tonight - UFO UpDates - Toronto [101] Alien 'Proof' Rejected As Hype - UFO UpDates - Toronto [60] The UFO Hunters - UFO UpDates - Toronto [203] Re: An Abduction Checklist - Velez - John [66] Re: Corso - Hall - Richard Hall [49] Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Houran - Jim Houran [59] Re: Corso - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [21] Re: Corso - Straight - Brian Straight [17] Re: Washington Post Articles Of Interest - Ledger - Don Ledger [22] CCCRN News: 'Snow Circle' & Report Archives Update - Paul Anderson [60] Jan 18: The NIDS-FAA UFOdata Compact - Larry W. Bryant [182] Re: Corso - Tonnies - Mac Tonnies [15] Re: Washington Post Articles Of Interest - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [33] UFO Hunter Seeks Reports Of Sightings In Wales - Stig Agermose [89] 'Alien Odyssey' by John Maloney [Review] - Mac Tonnies [18] BBC On SOHO UFO Images - Stig Agermose [50] BBC Shows Seven NASA SOHO UFO Images - Stig Agermose [17] Sonic Boom Still Puzzles Officials - Stig Agermose [103] CI: Naturally Occurring Arctic Circles & Martian - Mac Tonnies [45] Disclosure Project Sends Letter To Congress - Stig Agermose [32] Re: National Review Online On UFO Cults - Brock - Rod Brock [43] Re: Corso - Hansen - George Hansen [78] Re: The NIDS-FAA UFOdata Compact - Hall - Richard Hall [32] Re: BBC On SOHO UFO Images - Ledger - Don Ledger [12] Re: Cloning Claim Concerns UFO Researchers - - Jim Deardorff [44] Re: Alien 'Proof' Rejected As Hype - Ledger - Don Ledger [29] Jan 19: Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Rudiak - David Rudiak [303] FOIA Request To USAF HQ - 01-18-03 - Larry W. Bryant [43] Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer - Speiser - Jim Speiser [32] Re: Corso - Goldstein - Josh Goldstein [76] Re: Cloning Claim Concerns UFO Researchers - - Josh Goldstein [73] Re: EBE-ET International Bulletin January/February - Thiago Luiz Ticchetti [14] Re: The UFO Hunters - Speiser - Jim Speiser [32] Proof And Why It Ain't Going To Happen - GT McCoy [20] High Altitude Balloon Launch - Don Ledger [8] INFORM #1 - UFORM Research Group Newsletter - Laurel Oplatka [70] Re: Corso - Rimmer - John Rimmer [22] Re: An Abduction Checklist - Brock - Rod Brock [49] Re: Sonic Boom Still Puzzles Officials - Brock - Rod Brock [69] Re: UFO Hunter Seeks Reports Of Sightings In Wales - Sean Jones [12] Yakima Indian Reservation Photo? - Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos [11] Re: Corso - Bennett - Colin Bennett [214] Re: Alien Proof, All are in denial! - Garlits - Don Garlits [48] Jan 20: 'MJ-12: The FBI Connection' - Chris Evers [10] Re: Corso - Bennett - Colin Bennett [248] Italian UFO Newsflash No. 382 - Edoardo Russo [77] Re: Dr. Fred Bell? - Eleanor White [17] Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Morris - Neil Morris [56] Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Rudiak - David Rudiak [515] Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer - Ledger - Don Ledger [43] Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer - Ledger - Don Ledger [98] Re: 'MJ-12: The FBI Connection' - Gates - Robert Gates [24] Re: Corso - Ledger - Don Ledger [30] Re: Yakima Indian Reservation Photo? - Anderson - Kathleen Andersen [33] Re: An Abduction Checklist - Ledger - Don Ledger [47] Re: Corso - Gates - Robert Gates [58] Re: High Altitude Balloon Launch - Gates - Robert Gates [16] Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Rudiak - David Rudiak [57] Re: Dr. Fred Bell? - Andersen - Kathleen Andersen [12] Kelly Incident Defies Explanation - UFO UpDates - Toronto [55] Slap In The Face - More Mars Controversy - UFO UpDates - Toronto [55] Debunking The Debunkers - UFO UpDates - Toronto [122] Re: Dr. Fred Bell? - Aldrich - Jan Aldrich [26] Re: Corso - Hall - Richard Hall [96] Alien Abduction Saga - UFO UpDates - Toronto [53] Jan 21: Re: Dr. Fred Bell? - Hall - Richard Hall [31] Re: EBE-ET International Bulletin January/February - Thiago Luiz Ticchetti [15] J-Shaped Marks On An Abductee? - Michael Harman [41] Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Hall - Richard Hall [295] Re: Corso - Rimmer - John Rimmer [120] Re: Corso - Rimmer - John Rimmer [22] Re: Dr. Fred Bell? - Friedman - Stanton Friedman [24] Mystery In The Sky Above Loch Ness - UFO UpDates - Toronto [74] Something In The Air Tonight - Letter To The Editor - Palmiro Campagna [25] Re: Dr. Fred Bell? - White - Elenaor White [24] UFO Over Necochea Argentina - Scott Corrales [24] Re: Alien 'Proof' Rejected As Hype - Winterflood - John Winterflood [65] Re: Corso - Hansen - George Hansen [27] Secrecy News -- 01/21/03 - Steven Aftergood [102] Re: Dr. Fred Bell? - Myers - Royce J. Myers III - The Watchdog [46] Were Red Lights A UFO? - Stig Agermose [38] Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer - Gehrman - Ed Gehrman [21] UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 4 - John Hayes [373] Jan 22: Re: Dr. Fred Bell? - White - Eleanor White [20] Re: Alien 'Proof' Rejected As Hype - Ledger - Don Ledger [57] Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer - Ledger - Don Ledger [27] Re: Dr. Fred Bell? - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [39] BUFOSC UFO Video Footage - Eric Morris [58] Re: Something In The Air Tonight - Letter To The - Grant Cameron [64] Re: Dr. Fred Bell? - Gates - Robert Gates [25] Re: Corso - Oplatka - Laurel Oplatka [105] X-PPAC Media Forward 01-21-03 - Stephen Bassett [59] Sheer Lunacy - UFO UpDates - Toronto [70] Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer - Connors - Wendy Connors [20] Re: Corso - Tonnies - Mac Tonnies [41] Re: Dr. Fred Bell? - Andersen - Kathleen Andersen [15] Re: Dr. Fred Bell? - Lagasse - Pierre Lagasse [27] Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer - Speiser - Jim Speiser [36] Re: Alien 'Proof' Rejected As Hype - Seguin - Trevor Seguin [33] Triangles Suspended Above His Head? - Michael Harman [16] Re: X-PPAC Media Forward 01-21-03 - Hall - Richard Hall [32] Re: X-PPAC Media Forward 01-21-03 - Tonnies - Mac Tonnies [33] Filer' Files #4 -- 2003 - George A. Filer [505] Re: Triangles Suspended Above His Head? - Connors - Wendy Connors [17] Re: Alien 'Proof' Rejected As Hype - Ledger - Don Ledger [44] Jan 23: Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer - Goldstein - Josh Goldstein [59] Re: Triangles Suspended Above His Head? - Velez - John Velez [53] Re: SOHO Images - Stuart - Chaz Stuart [8] Re: X-PPAC Media Forward 01-21-03 - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [26] UFO Sightings OZ Files 22.01.03 - Diane Harrison [280] Re: Alien 'Proof' Rejected As Hype - Edwards - Tim Edwards [18] Re: Sheer Lunacy - Jordt - David Jordt [38] Re: Alien 'Proof' Rejected As Hype - Bowden - Tom Bowden [55] Lehigh Valley PA Has Reported UFOs Since 40's - Stig Agermose [59] Re: Triangles Suspended Above His Head? - Heath - Gord Heath [104] Is Anyone Out There? - UFO UpDates - Toronto [98] What Was Mystery Light In Night Sky? - UFO UpDates - Toronto [47] Credential Inflation - Kevin Randle [39] Humanoid Contact Data Update - Roy Hale [10] Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Houran - Jim Houran [110] Re: Alien 'Proof' Rejected As Hype - Ledger - Don Ledger [13] Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Andrew Dabrowski [9] Re: Triangles Suspended Above His Head? - Tonnies - Mac Tonnies [48] Re: SOHO Images - Seguin - Trevor Seguin [30] Excellent AA Website - Joachim Koch [13] Europe's Best UFO Collections At Risk - John Hayes [62] Magonia Supplement 45 - John Rimmer [418] Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Hall - Richard Hall [16] Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Walter - Werner Walter [22] EuroSETI? Whats That? - Werner Walter [16] Jan 24: Re: Triangles Suspended Above His Head? - Brock - Rod Brock [79] Re: Alien 'Proof' Rejected As Hype - Winterflood - John Winterflood [124] Podesta On Classification In The Context Of UFOs - Stig Agermose [142] Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Remy Le Chevalier [26] Re: Magonia Supplement 45 - Friedman - Stanton Friedman [49] Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Morris - Neil Morris [157] Re: Credential Inflation - Klass - Phil Klass [9] Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Bourdais - Gildas Bourdais [30] Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Clark - Jerome Clark [22] Re: Excellent AA Website - Gehrman - Ed Gehrman [12] Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Harney - John Harney [43] Re: Magonia Supplement 45 - Rimmer - John Rimmer [13] Re: Podesta On Classification In The Context Of - Steven Kaeser [20] EBE-ET International Bulletin January/February 2003 - Thiago Luiz Ticchetti [15] EW: New Mars Kid in Town - Kurt Jonach - The Electric Warrior [119] Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Deschamps - Michel M. Deschamps [24] Jan 25: Re: Triangles Suspended Above His Head? - Brock - Rod Brock [29] Re: Credential Inflation - Brock - Rod Brock [26] Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Roberts - Andy Roberts [37] Expect More Washington Military Overflights - Don Ledger [18] Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Rimmer - John Rimmer [25] Reality Avoidance - Larry Hatch [9] Re: Excellent AA Website - Hatch - Larry Hatch [25] Re: Excellent AA Website - Morris - Neil Morris [10] Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Roberts - Andy Roberts [37] Scientists Show How To Make A UFO - UFO UpDates - Toronto [85] Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Clark - Jerome Clark [41] Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Houran - Jim Houran [27] Re: Scientists Show How To Make A UFO - Ledger - Don Ledger [28] Jan 26: Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Rudiak - David Rudiak [60] Cumbria Flying Saucers Probed - Stig Agermose [57] 'UFO' In Milford CT SWAT Test - Stig Agermose [46] Collection For SOS-OVNI Archive Files - Anders Liljegren [98] Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Bourdais - Gildas Bourdais [52] Re: NASA & UFOs? - Mancusi - Bruno Mancusi [33] Possible 1989 Abduction? - Albert Rosales [16] Re: EuroSETI? Whats That? - McGonagle - Joe McGonagle [25] Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Rudiak - David Rudiak [794] Jan 27: Re: NASA & UFOs? - Stanford - Ray Stanford [25] Sightings Continue In Buenos Aires Province - Scott Corrales [39] The Un-Secret Shuttle Videos & Mars Images - Geoff Richardson [8] Hickson & Parker? - Philip Mantle [8] 'Hangar 18'? - Philip Mantle [7] Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Dabrowski - Andrew Dabrowski [16] Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Dabrowski - Andrew Dabrowski [17] Video Footage Follow-Up - Barry Taylor [18] Research In Progress - Richard Hall [18] SciFi/UNM Dig Wrong Roswell Site? - Brad Sparks [57] USAF's McAndrew Mogul Balloon Comments - Keith Rowell [83] Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Hall - Richard Hall [81] Are We Alone? Quite Possibly - UFO UpDates - Toronto [74] UFO Groups Keep Wary Eye On Raelians - UFO UpDates - Toronto [48] Jan 28: Sci-Fi Today: Is Anybody Out There? - Stig Agermose [138] Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Mott - Wm. Michael Mott [192] Autonomous Underwater Vehicles - Joe McGonagle [19] Re: 'Hangar 18'? - Jones - Sean Jones [16] Re: Research In Progress - McGonagle - Joe McGonagle [37] Re: Possible 1989 Abduction? - Velez - John Velez [44] Chile To Build Its First UFO Museum - Stig Agermose [28] Metal Spheres Over Yucatan - Scott Corrales [32] Re: 'Hangar 18'? - Mac Tonnies [20] Re: Possible 1989 Abduction? - Tonnies - Mac Tonnies [38] Re: Possible 1989 Abduction? - Rosales - Albert Rosales [27] 1989 Abduction Case - Albert Rosales [20] Re: Chile To Build Its First UFO Museum - Hatch - Larry Hatch [28] Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Houran - Jim Houran [26] UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 5 - John Hayes [360] Jan 29: Bizarre '89 Report From Uzbekistan - Albert Rosales [29] Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Borraz - Manuel Borraz [110] Laughlin Conference - Philip Mantle [11] Betty Hill? - Philip Mantle [7] CI: New 'Blog'! - Mac Tonnies [11] Re: Expect More Washington Military Overflights - - Robert Gates [25] Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Hatch - Larry Hatch [114] Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Taylor - Barry Taylor [60] Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Morton - Dave Morton [20] UFO-Spotters Make Beeline For Loch Ness - UFO UpDates - Toronto [56] Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Houran - Jim Houran [44] Re: Corso - Bennett - Colin Bennett [770] Fortean Times UFO Article - Andy Roberts [13] Awakening Mary Rodwell - Roy Hale [8] Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [21] Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Mott - Wm. Michael Mott [323] Re: Laughlin Conference - King - Tom King [26]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 1 UFO UpDates Archive Top 20 Reads 2002 From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 16:08:07 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 16:08:07 -0500 Subject: UFO UpDates Archive Top 20 Reads 2002 This list compiled from stats generated by Analog 5.22 website log analyser - the [numbers] represent reads..... 1 Bob Lazar - True or False? Glenn Campbell - [12157] http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/jun/m22-012.shtml 2 Of Flying Wings & Hover Cars ebk - [4142] http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/1998/aug/m03-008.shtml 3 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? Chris Rutkowski - [4128] http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/apr/m05-017.shtml 4 Re: MOD Rendlesham File Released Brad Sparks [4014] http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2001/aug/m18-009.shtml 5 Weekly Filer's Files - #10-2002 George A. Filer - [2906] http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/mar/m06-023.shtml 6 Of Sociopaths & Conspiracy Alfred Lehmberg - [2790] http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2001/feb/m07-003.shtml 7 Roswell Rods On NBC Show Stig Agermose - [2616] http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/1999/aug/m16-001.shtml 8 Review - Korff on Thursday's Rense Show Alfred Lehmberg - [2328] http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/mar/m02-021.shtml 9 Bush Says UFO Promise Still On Grant Cameron - [2195] http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/nov/m05-004.shtml 10 Spielberg's 'Taken' Website Bill Stockstill - [2066] http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/sep/m21-014.shtml 11 Tom Lykis' Radio Show Attacks Art Bell Erik Beckjord - [1655] http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/1997/mar/m30-010.shtml 12 Spielberg's 'Taken' Project Steven Kaeser - [1506] http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/may/m02-015.shtml 13 Filer's Files #27 - 2002 George A. Filer - [1379] http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/jul/m03-035.shtml 14 Argentina: Large UFO Causes Ground Effects Scott Corrales [1328] http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/jul/m24-019.shtml 15 Mysterious Dwarf Causes Concern In Argentina Scott Corrales - [1318] http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/nov/m08-031.shtml 16 NOVA - 'Vanished!' 'STENDEC' Solved? ebk - [1250] http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/jan/m08-008.shtml 17 Raelians, The Pope & Aborigines John. W. Auchettl - [1222] http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/jan/m08-008.shtml 18 The Kokomo Hum ebk - [1184] http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/feb/m14-016.shtml 19 Sudbury, Ontario Sighting Reports ebk - [1151] http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/1997/apr/m29-008.shtml 20 The Real Story Of 'The Mothman Prophecies' ebk - [1144] http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2001/dec/m07-011.shtml ..... and for this year's end, for good measure, interesting 'Servers & Hits' for 2002: 12116: .gov (USA Government) 3806: ca.gov 2872: nasa.gov 1880: gsi.gov.uk 1051: uspto.gov 732: house.gov 469: va.gov 298: ssa.gov 296: usda.gov 260: treas.gov 237: defence.gov.au 183: usgs.gov 168: faa.gov 159: anl.gov 155: panynj.gov 143: wa.gov 129: derbyshire.gov.uk 123: lanl.gov 116: vic.gov.au 111: blm.gov 107: fdic.gov 101: nsw.gov.au 96: doe.gov 83: hants.gov.uk 80: larp.gov 78: ornl.gov 67: gsa.gov 56: bop.gov 14138: .mil (USA Military) 4244: nipr.mil 3388: navy.mil 2936: army.mil 2704: af.mil 250: disa.mil 180: uscg.mil 179: usmc.mil 113: dcaa.mil
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 1 Puerto Rico: Chupacabras Resembles Extinct Animal From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 09:30:18 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 16:11:48 -0500 Subject: Puerto Rico: Chupacabras Resembles Extinct Animal INEXPLICATA The Journal of Hispanic Ufology December 31, 2002 SOURCE: Primera Hora DATE: December 30, 2002 CHUPACABRAS RESEMBLES EXTINCT ANIMAL *The main course of the Taino Indians* by Alex David--Primera Hora JAYUYA.- A Taino Chupacabras? While the bones of a strange creature found on Christmas Eve at the center of the island awaits examination by a qualified professional, its possible identity could be found in books. The animal's characteristics could confirm the existence of the "jut=EDa", a species believed to be extinct in the country and which is studied in Pre-Colombian history classes as one of the species dwelling on the island alongside the Taino Indians. This creature, also known as "hut=EDa", "fut=EDa" and "dant=EDa" was native to the Caribbean since pre-Colombian times and was a main source of nourishment to the aboriginal peoples of the time. Some historians described the animal as a rodent with a delicious flavor and also tell that hunting and consumption hastened its extinction. Although there are few representations or illustrations which describe the jut=EDa, it still exists in countries such as Haiti, The Bahamnas, Cuba and the Dominican Republic, albeit in small numbers. In the Haitian case, international reports suggest that it is in danger of being exterminated due to habitat reduction, which consists mainly of tree trunks and branches is dry or wet forests.. The jut=EDas are the source of at least 14 species which managed to spread over the various islands of the Antilles, but only three are known to survive. These were catalogued according to size, for which reason the "jutias" or "solenodon paradoxus" represents the medium-sized rodents, in other words, standing no taller than two inches. Author Nelson Rafael Collazo points out in his book "Images of the Puerto Rican Indians" that these animals were hunted for their high protein value, and to achieve this they employed arrows and were aided by dogs. In this regard, it contrasts with other versions that claim the dogs were imported by the Spaniards. What has been found regarding the jut=EDas alimentary habits indicates that ti prefers rodents, small reptiles and some birds. However, avialiable information and illustrations do not specify the detailed physical aspects of the animal, and it is therefore impossible to classify the odd specimen found under the struts of a recently built house, and which appears to have died only recently, as a Pre-Colombian fossil. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Translation (C) 2002. Scott Corrales, Institute of Hispanic Ufology Special thanks to Dr. Jose I. Gomez.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 1 Abductee Stan Romanek? From: Joachim Koch <Achimdkoch@aol.com> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 09:44:41 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 16:13:53 -0500 Subject: Abductee Stan Romanek? Dear Bruce Mac & List, Has anyone of you heard anything about Stan Romanek and his experiences? Has anyone, Bruce for example, analysed his UFO- stills? Has anyone seen this webpage: http://www.neilslade.com/Papers/photos.html Thank you and all the best for 2003! Joachim Koch Berlin
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 1 Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - Hale From: Roy Hale <roy.hale@ntlworld.com> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 14:54:12 -0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 16:22:36 -0500 Subject: Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - Hale >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 13:16:52 -0500 >Subject: Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? >How does one differentiate between good and bad research (or >information) on the Internet? Common sense? Reading opinions from other users of such sites? Internet based News groups such as Updates? >There are many good researchers who have placed their material >on the Internet, but how does someone new to the field know that >one site is better than another? Do we take the Art Bell approach >and simply let the audience decide for themselves? You mean you would like to stream line data, so that only your opinions and what you want people to know, should stand? I feel you are heavily underrating the internet surfer, you seem to imply, that they do not have the intelligence to decide for themselves? The problem with old ufology was that a lot of the data was kept within a hierarchy, which in some cases proved near impossible to gain access too, And I am afraid' many researchers, were very happy to keep it that way! Don't you think it is a good thing that the UFO witnessing public, now has the chance to read the DATA first hand? >Are we in a scientific pursuit of knowledge or do we remain a >loosely knit group of people who happen to share a similar >interest and have the ability to communicate with one another. What's wrong with people having experience's, and finding any scientific data they can along the way? UFO research works best when we can relate to each other in many ways, I am not a white coat man looking for specific establishment answers, if they come then I will be pleased, but it isn't always the case, that is why UFO researchers are still talking about 50 year old UFO cases! And what about those web based people around this planet, who are taking the time ( and believe me they commit many hours ) to place their own UFO experiences, so that many others can read, relate, question, submit, ponder, interact, discuss, support, fund. I feel these people are the unrecognized ones, I commend their commitment to a subject which is vast, complex, mysterious, fascinating, taxing, enjoyable ( when your answers come in ), and bloody hard work too! The problem with UFO research is, that someone writes a book , gets loads of publicity, walks on water for a few moths, disappears with all the credit, and the other people who are doing the same, but via the web' get a main researcher, slapping them down with cheap digs about hype and advertising, and the death of ufology! And please, if I hear "Armchair Uufology" once more I will vomit, anyone who spends more than five minutes on the web looking at UFOs, hey guess what?! You're an armchair ufologist! Roy..
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 1 Latest On Seiko The Plagiarist From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 00:55:09 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 16:41:10 -0500 Subject: Latest On Seiko The Plagiarist Hello all: If you can bear all this, parts of it are getting funny. I already told you about the Japanese lady in Redondo Beach, CA who ripped off, then altered my UFO map and text. I emailed her: (easy to find, unlike Angelfire) Dear Seiko: In reference to this web page of yours: I see you like my UFO map of the Western USA, among others. So do I. It took 18 years of bone-crunching research and programming to produce them with the *U* database. [snip] "All Maps, Statistical screens, Data and *U* Web Pages are Copyright =A9 1985-2002 Larry Hatch." On your page above, you have: a) Copied my copyrighted map straight off my website. b) Copied my text, virtually unchanged, from my same web page, presenting both as if they were your work. c) Completely omitted any mention of the *U* Database, Larry Hatch, or any other clue to the authorship of this huge work. d) Linked the small _and_ full size (640-480) map so that the bandwidth to view these images is charged to my website host instead of yours. e) Altered the"Home Page" link so that it points to your website instead of mine. f) Apparently used this, and similar stratagems to help sell your website (services) .. [snip] - - - I sent that to Seiko, and also to one Dick van Bree who is the official (WHOIS) registrar of the DPSTUDIOS.COM domain in question. I presume they know one another pretty well. Van Bree emailed back first, saying: "Thank you for the information. I do not condone such behavior and will contact the site owner in your behalf. I am also mentioned and I also never gave permission for any statements therein. thanks.. Dick" - - - A day or so later, Seiko Horiba herself ( I'm not inventing the last name) gave this amazing response: "Map has always linked to your website, and still does, and your ideas about this website, however they were deduced, are totally wrong. Take a different tone and we can talk. Continue, and I don't care to listen...." Got that? I'm supposed to write back, hat in hand, apologizing for the negative tone of my complaint. I haven't sent another word to her. Instead, I studied the source code of her plagiarized web page. She did _not_ pinch the image file for the Western USA UFO map and put it on her website remember. She merely linked to the image only on MY website, presumably to save bandwidth charges. I did the following: a) I changed the map-image filename WESTUSA.gif to WESTUSAX.gif (or similar, one letter added.) b) I changed the web page file (WESTHEMI.html) so it would point back to my original UFO map, but under the new name. My website works as before. c) I _deleted_ the gif image file Seiko Horiba's page was calling up (on my dime). d) I _replaced_ that with a new image file. To see the new improved Horiba WEST-USA UFO Map page, click on that same URL of hers: http://www.dpstudios.com/redondo/ufo.html If you see the original ufo map in the middle, click on Refresh or Reload to see the altered .gif image. Please nobody tell Seiko Horiba about this. She got high Google/Yahoo listings based on my work. I want time for others to see her"improved" page before she discovers it and changes it again. It occurs to me that she probably stole other images and work in a similar manner, to promote her talents as a webmistress. I went browsing around for her name etc. to see what else popped up. Sure enough! She ripped an apparently Russian artwork, which you can see at the bottom of this highly unusual page: http://www.sensualtiera.com/ also registered to Dick van Bree. Sensualtiera was really something. It showed Seiko and"Tiera" in a site offering complete orgasm services for Women Only or some such. Seiko's pix were all over it, and her bottom banner/logo at the very bottom. The"Russian" image was of the gorgeous derriere of some young lady with what looked like a world globe map tattooed all over her buttocks! At the top of that truly artistic image, was a caption or header in Cyrillic (sp?) characters which she neglected to clip off! Just above that, was the idiotic statement: "We have created our new map to capture our theme, Sensuality.." Ooof! A truly stupid woman. Looks like van Bree caught on to the rest of the story and took down both domains. I will check back once in a while to see if they resurface. I hope some of you enjoyed this. I'm deeply sorry the pages went dead just now! You had to have been there. Now I know what a UFO witness must feel like. Very best wishes - Larry Hatch
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 1 Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 10:56:15 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 16:42:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 09:23:45 -0700 >Subject: Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or Fact?' >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 12:48:48 EST >>Subject: Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or Fact?' <snip> >>>>Budd Hopkins, Dr. John E. Mack and Dr. David M. Jacobs >>Dick, >>Which of these gentlemen do you consider a "skeptic"? >Answer: They are all skeptics. >Everyone is a skeptic, and everyone is a believer. Jim: Oh, come on. We're talking about flying saucers, here. >We just draw our lines at different places. Yeah, like David Jacobs believing his abductees' stories about little aliens coming through the walls. Are you coming from another planet or something? It's one thing to argue your points on the List, but when you deny that another point of view actually exists, you're insulting everybody. At least Dick Hall and I realize that we're just likely to go on beating each other over the head, like Punch and Judy. Clear skies, Bob Young "This is like discussing the etymology of Klingon nouns: it passes the time, is quite diverting and may lead to a greater understanding of the human condition in our examination of people's need to speak Klingon." - Steve Rotsky
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 1 Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 11:02:44 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 16:43:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or >From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 13:07:04 -0400 >Subject: Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or Fact?' >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 12:48:48 EST >>Subject: Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or Fact?' >>3) Alien spacemen in little flying saucers reversing directions >>at high speed without being smeared on the inside of the little >>cabins. >Hi Bob, >As per your questions above, I pick number three as the correct >answer. >Number one and two are just too outrageouse to consider. >And ol' Arthur has made more money out of ET than anyone else. >What's he got to complain about? Don: Not much, probably. Science _Fiction_ is quite popular. Clear skies, Bob Young
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 1 Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - Kaeser From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 11:03:49 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 16:45:29 -0500 Subject: Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - Kaeser >From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 08:37:39 -0000 >Subject: Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? I don't want to beat this issue to death, but it raises important issues. >>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 13:16:52 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? >>>From: Roy Hale <roy.hale@ntlworld.com> >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 16:07:36 -0000 >>>Subject: Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? ><snip> >>How does one differentiate between good and bad research (or >>information) on the Internet? There are many good researchers >>who have placed their material on the Internet, but how does >>someone new to the field know that one site is better than >>another? Do we take the Art Bell approach and simply let the >>audience decide for themselves? >In my opinion, Ufology needs a credible National - thence >International - authority, a group perhaps elected by the >various local groups, which has the power to set policies and >standards within ufology, and issue - or withdraw! - a >"standards compliance" certificate of some kind. >Of course, this would lead to accusations of "elitism" etc, but >so what? If it does raise standards, and becomes recognised as a >national focal point for the media, the public, and the >authorities, who cares if the 'Alien Spotters of Great Britain' >(membership 5 million worldwide, HQ address flat 3b, 14 Backend >Road, Worthington, Sussex) get the hump and go off in a huff? >Both of the members - sorry, I mean the President and the Vice- >President Global Operations - will continue to be ignored. >Ufology needs to bite the bullet and take hold of the reins, >otherwise it will simply continue to move in circles. Of course >this will take a great deal of time and effort, but I believe it >is achievable. I think we're talking about the establishment of a "science" here, and I would agree with such an effort. Most scientific disciplines have had establishment and growing pains, and if ufology is to become a true scientific pursuit of knowledge it will have to both define itself and establish an accepted peer review system. I've advocated that in the past, but there's that question of who will perform that weeding process and how will they gain the respect of the majority. To a very limited degree, this was done by the primary research groups in the U.S. for a number of years, but they've found that their influence has waned of late. >>The Internet has provided a tremendous forum for networking in >>this genre that has never before existed, but it also has >>created an anarchy that seems to have no foundation and major >>UFO research organizations throughout the world have been >>severely impacted. >I don't believe that all of the blame can be placed on the >advent of the InterNet, this has just accelerated the effect. It >is just that some people's minds have been so open that their >brains have fallen out! The InterNet is simply a convenient >platform for some people who would never be considered viable by >the mainstream media to air their views and gain support from >gullible, or equally "open minded" people. The same effect can >be found in the printed media before the internet was widely >available, for example, Flying Saucer Review. Certainly not all the blame can be placed on the Internet, but as you note the global reach of the Internet and it's tremendous levelling of the playing field (making us all equals unto the masses), has resulted problems for those who would try to establish credibility as a "science". As usual, it's not the Internet, but the lack of peer review, IMO. >>Are we in a scientific pursuit of knowledge or do we remain a >>loosely knit group of people who happen to share a similar >>interest and have the ability to communicate with one another. >I think that the answer is both - we are a loosely knit >community, a large part of which deeply desires and strives for >the recognition of Ufology by the authorities, acadaemia, and >the publc as a ligitimate area of study. The rational voices of >the community are drowned out by the raucous squealing from the >sheep-diviners and high priests of the minority which have >effectively taken over by virtue of the fact that they make more >entertaining subjects for the media. I would wholeheartedly suggest that we agree more than disagree on these issues. Take care, Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 1 Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 11:11:55 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 16:47:18 -0500 Subject: Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 13:01:50 -0500 >Subject: Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or Fact?' >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 12:48:48 EST >>Subject: Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or Fact?' >>Please rate as the most rational the following three choices: >>1) A bright fireball meteor, with different sized fragments >>burning out in random order (as described) >>2) Fireflies between the window glass >>3) Alien spacemen in little flying saucers reversing directions >>at high speed without being smeared on the inside of the little >>cabins. >Clearly you want to rationalize your conclusions based upon >beliefs and faith in what can (or should) exist. I'm not sure >how you transend to a new level of scientific understanding (if >one exists). To limit one's view of what can exist with self- >imposed blinders seems to fly in the face of scientific >exploration. Steve: Well, why don't you lengthen the list with other possibilities, instead of making a political statement? Clear skies, Bob Young Occam's Razor = "Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate" or "plurality should not be posited without necessity." The words are those of the medieval English philosopher and Franciscan monk, William of Ockham (ca. 1285-1349).
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 1 Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - Young From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 12:01:48 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 16:48:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - Young >From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net> >To: UFO Updates <UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 14:50:16 -0700 >Subject: Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? <snip> >From my position I am still finding lost gems of knowledge and >sharing them with the field at large.\ >Famous quotes from Ufology past: >"No man from our planet will land on the moon...ever!" - Alex >McNeil at James Moseley's Saucer News, NY meeting of 4/21/67. >> Wendy: "I find your lack of faith disturbing." - D. Vader
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 1 Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - Hale From: Roy Hale <roy.hale@ntlworld.com> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 17:13:56 -0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 16:51:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - Hale >From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 07:57:01 -0000 >Subject: > >There are a few things which I do like about the lecture >circuits-the opportunity to meet people with similar interests, >the opportunities (occasionally) to discuss specifics with a >presenter, the knees up in the bar afterwards. I would hate to >see all of these things totally supplanted by the internet. Yes, drinking after lectures can be fun, depending on the company, the problem is, I prefer fruit juice to alcohol, and that isn't often served in bars over here. >I can't speak for Jenny, but my understanding is that her >remarks go deeper than just the effect of the internet; It >includes the procedural and ethical attitudes of groups and >individuals involved in UFO research, for example, the lack of >standardisation, the total absence of a clear focal point for >witnesses to report their sightings to or for the media to refer >to. Jenny is quite passionate about this subject, but alas, new add ons to ufology is always happening, I feel this is now the way for ufology. >Personally, I was more interested in Jenny's suggetion towards a >solution, which included harnessing the benefits of the internet >to nurture a positive effect on ufology and how it is perceived. Humans are humans, not everyone will agree on everything, so I feel that is a far overlooked piece of thinking, but I would say that there is some general consensus on certain ufo matters. >I agree that there are some excellent sites out there covering >ufology, but there is also a hell of a lot of inaccurate, >outdated, and in some cases, totally unfounded articles. I am >also possibly guilty of propogating false stories, not >deliberately of course, but because I have forwarded a story or >a link without thoroughly researching it. >While there are some excellent articles at your web site: >http://www.thelosthaven.co.uk Thank you, I have given some writers the space to let people view their work, ideas, and thoughts on UFO research. >They are difficult to find amongst all of the commercial links. >On the UFO page, you have a link marketing a Fortune Teller >CD..... what sort of impression do you think this gives of >ufology? It gives the impression that I sell CDs on my site? The articles are very well read, my stats tell me this. >You also have a link to: >http://www.AngliaEarthMysteries.co.uk >You may be unaware, but the "owner" of AEM who goes under >various names including Jack/Jac/Steve Solomon/Lassiter/Sheridan >and combinations thereof is currently in legal dispute with the >Norfolk UFO Society with regard to group assets and other >matters. In fact, if you follow the link which is on your site: >http://www.angliaearthmysteries.co.uk >there is a brief statement about the matter there. I am probably not the only site with a link to this one, on the web. >Another UK site: >http://www.crowdedskies.com >by Roy Lake carries an article by Tony Dodd dated June 2002 >about the 1970 lightning crash, complete with a fake transcript >of the in-flight conversation. This incident recently received a >great deal of publicity both on the national media, and in the >UK UFO magazine due to the release of the flight accident report >by the MOD. The UFO connection has effectively been shown to be >an outright hoax, but there is no mention of these details at >the site. I am not suggesting that either Tony Dodd or Roy Lake >were conscious parties to the hoax, but it is an example of an >article with no foundation in reality (and it does raise a >questionmark about Dodd's effectivness as an "Alien >Investigator"....). Roy Lake is a good friend of mine, I have known roy for years, I will pass this comment on to him, I feel I am unable to comment on the issue you raise, perhaps roy will contact you, or even Tony Dodd. >Yet another infamous UK case is covered at your other site: >http://freespace.virgin.net/roy.hale >which, incidentally, I think is much more professional looking >than: >http://www.thelosthaven.co.uk The Virgin site has been defunct for some years, Virgin has been asked to remove it several times, but to no avail. >the Sheffield Incident as put forward by convicted drug dealer, >Max Burns. How someone like him can manipulate people into >supporting him in spite of his lack of remorse for his crime >astounds me! He is definitely one character that ufology would >be better off without! Every good journalist prefers to meet the people on such issues, I take it you did this on some occasion? >Please don't misunderstand me, I appreciate that operating such >a web site soaks up a lot of time, money, and effort, and I >wouldn't expect it to be perfect in every way, but perhaps you >can see the point about how ufology is often misrepresented on >the internet in such a way as to either confuse people about >what ufology encompasses, or even scare them away from the >topic! I quite like a lot of the content at your sites, there >are far worse ones out there..... So what official body would you like to see set up, to make sure that only the correct data, passed by another body, is seen? Roy..
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 1 Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - Jones From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 17:50:18 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 16:52:36 -0500 Subject: Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - Jones >From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 07:57:01 -0000 >Subject: Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? Evening Joe, All, >There are a few things which I do like about the lecture >circuits-the opportunity to meet people with similar interests, >the opportunities (occasionally) to discuss specifics with a >presenter, the knees up in the bar afterwards. I would hate to >see all of these things totally supplanted by the internet. It doesn't have to. Why don't you stick an advert in your local paper, "Anybody interested in UFO's meet at the Dog & Bone pub/bar/meeting point the last Friday of every month." No admission fee, just turn up. I did a similar thing in Kent a few years back and received quite a good response. Warm Regards Sean
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 1 Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 11:45:31 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 16:54:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 21:31:20 +0000 >Subject: Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or Fact?' >>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 09:23:45 -0700 >>Subject: Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or Fact?' >>>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 12:48:48 EST >>>Subject: Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or Fact?' >>>Dick, >>>Which of these gentlemen do you consider a "skeptic"? >>Answer: They are all skeptics. Everyone is a skeptic, and >>everyone is a believer. We just draw our lines at different >>places. Dick is simply saying, and I agree, that the List is >>balanced because most or all of the individuals "draw their >>lines" at sensible places, unlike some Skeptics (capital "S") >>who draw their lines (and anchor them with cement) at a place >>that only includes Venus, meteors, balloons and pelicans. >I never said anything one way or the other about the "balance" >of the panel. I was merely objecting to Bob Young putting words >in my mouth. Well, apparently I've done the same thing, and I apologize. ==JJS==
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 1 Rendlesham 2 UFO Crash From: Eric Morris <bufosc@hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 23:43:52 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 17:15:37 -0500 Subject: Rendlesham 2 UFO Crash The British UFO Studies Centre are organising an historic event to start 2003! Our January meeting on Tuesday 14th January 2003 at the Waterloo Community Centre Runcorn,Cheshire, UK will be revealing a case hidden for 18 years. If you have heard of the Rendlesham Forest Incident then this case surpasses that. Only BUFOSC have the evidence, photo's, video footage, documents, witness reports and a menacing call from an 'alleged CIA executive' demanding money from a BUFOSC member for documents stolen from that members house. Denials by the MOD,USAF (yes it involved an American military base - again - and documents relating RAF Rudloe Manor to UFO interest long before Matthew Williams gladly brought it into public domain in the 1990's). BUFOSC also have documents from a very much leading Ufologist specialising in 'UFO Crash Landings', confirming the alleged CIA Executive's interests in gaining information about the case and his full intention of getting that information. We have two letters from this American leading Ufologist to prove our claim!! All these will be shown for the first time ever in January, it is hoped that BUFOSC will be invited to give this lecture anywhere in the World!! It's fascinating, shocking and demolishes the myth that UFOs do not invade our air space (and military facilities).They do, we have the data to validate this claim. Photo's of BUFOSC members being followed every time they investigated this case by the same man!!! Evidence from a second BUFOSC member will endorse this. The photo's certainly do. Possibly espionage that BUFOSC are contacting the MOD about. We have photos as evidence and factual dates. This is too important to miss, and will be the start of BUFOSC's attempt to get their book published. BUFOSC have been involved in UFO research since 1978 and hold one of Britain's largest UFO reports collection, many unpublished. However, BUFOSC's Founder Eric Morris has decided that 2003 is the year for exposure. This case will be shocking to many leading Ufologists around the world. Tickets for the 14th January are =A31 and booking IS advisable.No audio or visual equipment will be allowed into the theatre. To contact BUFOSC ring Eric Morris on 01606 330567 or 07753744978. Happy New Year. Happy UFO Hunting also, we're enjoying it!! Eric Morris 31.12.02 THIS IS NOT A NEW YEAR'S DAY JOKE FOLKS, IT'S REAL!!!!!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 1 Combat Diary Number 2 From: Colin Bennett <sharkley@panzerben.fsworld.co.uk> Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 00:15:13 -0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 17:18:58 -0500 Subject: Combat Diary Number 2 Like Ed Gehrman, I too have received almost violent responses from Jan Aldrich recently. The world, in its refusal to be described, appears to be stoning him with great gobbets of uncontrollable imaginations. Like Toad of Toad Hall (sorry for using an image, Jan, but I don't reason in document box numbers), people will escape and write big bad books if only for the amusement of seeing the bullying rage of people like himself. The world is a big bad place, big enough for Corso, and bad enough for his rebel book. The value of this book lies in showing the number of creatures who poke their sneers out from holes in the river bank as Toad Corso's crazy craft sails merrily by on its mad voyage to the very edges of the modern perception. Would be those creatures safe in their holes had Toad Corso's courage and his touch of his divine madness. Many measure reality in terms of things called facts. If only God were a bourgeois, that would be a good way of doing it. As a show, facts are still prime time, though aging rapidly, getting a bit thick about the middle, and they always were a bit too middle-aged and respectable to be really cool. For myself, I measure reality in terms of the number of TV programmes I have missed through never having had a TV set in my life. My doctor tells me that this means that my reality is increasing by a factor of many hundreds of missed morsels per day, and so very soon says he, as a non-consumer I will be far more real than dearest Jan Aldrich and all his blessing objectivities put together, praise the Lord. Eventually, says he again, I will become so real that he will have to inject me with impurities to bring me down to normal levels of diseased perceptions. This means I will have to get a Doll's House and a license. I am told that my paid license will give me the legal Right to gorge on junk-rationalism, eat the intellectual equivalents to Shantyburgers, Umbongo, and Pork Fritters, all juiced up with skeptical panics, logical certainties and carcinogenic common sense. What with the women who all look like flight attendants, the men who look like men with strange personal inclinations, and the factual fritters of the "real" documentaries I do not look forward to my reality-adjustment as a new Viewer. The problem of all philosophy is that the blessed "real" so many so often like to refer to won't behave itself any more than will alien intelligence when we meet it if we have not met it already. Human intelligence works by breaking the rules more than anything else. Such intelligence is founded on deviance, play, often plain silliness and (quelle horror!) the anarchic impulse to turn the apple cart over if only for the sake of it. This is bad news for both documentation and security classification as well as for the stock markets of belief- quotas. By the way, Jan, the explanation (as much abused a word as "real") for the MJ12 phenomenon is quite simple. The effect is busy cloning itself, a la Borges. It happened with Y2K. The reason for this is because information has now become a form of life. Jan, your great web animal of Project 1947 has broken loose and is running wild. Congratulations. You will come to love your virtual progeny as it gallops through the interstices of Fact. The sight of Jan lashing the flanks of his speeding animal and shouting THIS IS NO METAPHOR! is a good sign for the New Year 2003 An information animal? Now how about that for an idea to turn your boils red raw on the river bank of our Ufological Wind in the Willows in this last day of the New Year, Jan? Of Coffin Donkeys and Pelicans I am in receipt of no less than 15 e-mails asking me about what a coffin-donkey is, exactly, and I here explain. Coffin donkeys are poor wretched stumbling animals, the saddest beasts of this earth. Their destiny is to cart dead supersonic pelicans from the Headquarters of Magonia Magazine (above a second-hand furniture store) in Brentford to their final resting place in Brentford Leisure Centre. The better class of dead birds are therein preserved like Vatican divines in the catacombs. There they join the Bing Crosby table lamps and Shirley Temple wardrobes, those other consumer equivalents of cosmic certainty. The worst class of dead pelican who has sinned beyond recall are drawn by the same said coffin donkeys to those toxic pits where Stealth aircraft are burned at midnight with stakes through their hearts instead of being turned in pots and pans, like all decent dead aeroplanes. Why do so many die so quickly? Well sir, your pelican is an accident-prone beast. Some die of rationalist paranoia, some succomb to wing-biting despair at the constant failure of fact, and yet others plunge themselves from Brentford Town Hall after week-long debates about well-balanced decency, respect for others, and the left-liberal social-democratic view of drainpipe installation by lesbian communes. Many go mad, pecking their necks raw in an agony of loneliness, surrounded by the dead lines and empty rooms of mechanical prophecy. Others break their beaks on certainty and die of starvation. Some, their crop force-fed with document box numbers and security classifications, explode with insane grief all over Brentford, and are buried as bundles of part numbers that have no name, like symbols of some terrible cultural atrocity. Others kill themselves through the constant failure of accuracy. These pelicans self-destruct, suffer spontaneous combustion through an implosion of million 500th decimal places. A few, driven mad by the constant failure of all certainty, have to be shot under special license from the exotic-bird handling sections of the RSPCA. Pelicans suffer terribly from reality. This causes them to die young. Reality leads to over-breeding. It is an incestuous thing. This supposed objective Grail-chase causes pelican feathers to fall out, dietary ailments, lack of plumage sheen, rapidly failing vision, and anal problems of all kinds. All other birds accept those infinite fantasies by means of which both societies and cultures keep body and mind together for a ripe old age. Your British-born pelican in particular has a limited capacity to recover though change of paradigm. Over-specialised, and dull of brain they have the mundane inspirations of fallen social workers, and often spout fact-parrot like bearded polytech lecturers of the 1970s, now gone alas as the grandeur that was Rome and the glory that was Greece. The Pelican as a fact-eating animal (a too specialized diet) searching for something that was not a part of itself died with the Official Reality, Donny Osmond, or Mork and Mindy. Most species die of such highly specialized malfunctions. Pelicans refuse to accept that the capacity for self-deception is the source of all proper moral values. This is a bitter disappointment to such an exotic bird, whose capacity for adaptation is as limited as the diet of the great Chinese Panda. Far worse for a pelican is this fall from all grace than even the realization of post industrial obsolescence, and the realization that he fact-feeding pelican species is as passe as an East German factory, an episode of Starsky and Hutch, or a Michael Jackson thought. Poor pelicans. With the onset of virtuality, their factual food swathe is diminishing. Soon the pelican will become a Bigfoot, a thing of legend, a beast of the twilight zone, briefly glimpsed through fogged film and half-realised by minds of almost- forgotten part-series than rather old industrial facts. As the TV extraterrestrial Alf might say, fact as a product as failed. Hallelujah! Now let us all enter the New Year and as midnight strikes the witching hour, console ourselves with a couple of thoughts from the past about that much-abused concept called the real. (1) The philosopher H. H. Price[i] describes a possible Fortean virtual animal as Project 1947: "A hallucinatory entity, the celebrated pink rat, for instance, is composed of sense data or appearances just as a `real' object is. What is wrong with it, what inclines us to call it `unreal' is the fact that there is not enough of them. For instance, the hallucinatory rat can be seen from the front, but not from the back; it is visible but not tangible; it can be perceived by one percipient but not by more; and it endures only for a minute or so. But some hallucinations do better than this. Apparitions, for example, are sometimes public to several percipients, can be seen from several different points of view, and endure for considerable periods of time - though not as long as they would if they were `real' human beings. Now suppose there was an apparition which was public to an indefinite number of points of view and an indefinite number of observers: suppose there are tangible as well as visible particulars among the appearances which are its constituents; suppose it endures for half an hour and then disappears. We should not know whether to call it an unusually prolonged and complex hallucination, or a very queer `real object'. In point of fact, it would be something between the two, but not quite complex enough to count as a complete material object. Now imagine this process pushed to the limit. We might expect that occasionally a complete material object or a complete physical event would be produced by purely mental causes." This pink rat of Price is a typical Fortean half-form. It is an example of almost-creation that abolishes the category of "unreal", and exists in the intermediate Fortean Domain. It is also the perfect answer to Enrico Fermi's question: where are they? The answer is, as Price says, "there aren't enough of them". Here is A. N. Whitehead as a coda, a short but stiff New Year nightcap before New Year's Day. He too, as distinct from that great practical bench-experimenter Rutherford (who called metaphysics "so much hot air," and Relativity a "work of art"), saw science as being equally insubstantial, and he occasionally reflects Charles Fort's much-abused syntax: "We have only got to look in the sky, towards Percy Lowell's moving point, and we shall see a new planet. Certainly we shall not. All that any person has seen is a few faint dots on photographic plates, involving the intervention of photography, excellent telescopes, elaborate apparatus, long exposures and favorable nights. The new explanation is now involved in the speculative extension of a welter of physical laws, concerning telescopes, light, and photography, laws which merely claim to register observed facts. It is involved in the speculative application of such laws to particular circumstances within the observatories for which circumstances these laws are not concurrently verified. The result of this maze of speculative extensions is to connect the deviations of Uranus and Neptune with the dots on the photographic plate. This narrative, framed according to the strictest requirements of the Positivist theory, is a travesty." Thus for Whitehead, as for Fort, "reality" consists of nothing more than layer upon layer of well-managed ideological guano: the difference between elements of these historical deposits is the difference between a small-scale "fantasy," and some projection of a much larger one, the endless war between the two being a war to secure the high frontier of an equally illusory "certainty." Whitehead continues: "The speculative extensions of laws, baseless on the Positivist theory, are the obvious issue of speculative metaphysical trust in the material permanencies, such as telescopes, observatories, mountains, planets, which are behaving towards each other according to the necessities of the Universe, including theories of their own natures. The point is, that speculative extension beyond direct observation spells some trust in metaphysics, however vaguely the metaphysical notions may be entertained in explicit thought ... metaphysical understanding guides imagination and justifies purpose. This urge towards explanatory description provides the interplay between science and metaphysics. The doctrines of metaphysics are modified, so as to be capable of providing the explanation, and the explanations of science are framed in the terms of the popular metaphysics lingering in the imaginations of these scientists." Happy New Year folks, And goodnight America, wherever you are! Colin (Bad Man) Bennett
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 1 Re: Frank Kaufmann Exposed - Sparks From: Brad Sparks <address@removed> Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 03:40:59 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 19:46:35 -0500 Subject: Re: Frank Kaufmann Exposed - Sparks http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/dec/m20-015.shtml >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com >Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 18:14:26 EST >Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 19:11:19 -0500 >Subject: Re: Frank Kaufmann Exposed - Randle >Frank gave many interviews >and one of the last on video tape provided the text (which >was read) but not a hard copy of the Easley letter... Kevin and List, I was surprised to read the above revelation that the text of the (forged) Easley memo of July 30, 1947 (bogus date too, of course) has been AVAILABLE FOR YEARS because Kaufmann had read the Easley memo aloud in a videotaped interview, presumably in 1999 or 2000 or so. Can you provide more details about the interview, Kevin (or anyone else on the List)? I am not trying to generate acrimony here, just trying to point out lessons for the future and even the present, because after all don't we right now have other Kaufmanns out there creating chaos and confusion in the UFO field? As Kevin points out in another post on Dec. 21 http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/dec/m21-006.shtml it should not take the uncovering of this many lies and contradictions, as it has taken with Kaufmann, to find him and his story non-credible and to reject it. It should have been done a lot sooner, the evidence of hoax was abundant and quite conclusive years ago (more on this below). Wasn't the work by Karl Pflock, Phil Klass, Stan Friedman and others critical of Kaufmann enough to discredit him and if it wasn't, then shouldn't that be explained in a historical overview, a postmortem of Kaufmann? If not, why not? How many other stories right now should we do the same with? Kevin rightly complains that there may be efforts to rehabilitate Kaufmann but more than that even now those who participated in this exposure of Kaufmann's fraud still believe and accept his phony data. Many more accept the fraudulent Roswell scenario that Kaufmann propagated and Kevin and Don Schmitt and others relayed to the world. Schmitt was part of the CUFOS team that retrieved Kaufmann's papers sometime between February and August 2001 (we're not given the exact date by anyone). Schmitt was a key advisor to the Sci Fi Channel in the UNM archaeological dig and the tv special on Roswell that resulted "yet still based in part on Kaufmann's lies. They still use Kaufmann's bogus crash site roughly twenty miles from the alleged Foster Ranch touchdown site. And they still accept Kaufmann's southeasterly trajectory of the crashing UFO instead of the exact opposite northwesterly path that most Roswell researchers had previously accepted (based in large part on the Wilmot sighting, though other sighting data such as the Woodys' also point northward or northwesterly depending on start point). I was surprised because Kevin kept saying in his emails to me and others, and in his posts here on UFO UpDates (see below from Nov. 27), that he could not check out the alleged Easley memo because Kaufmann only flashed it at him just once for no more than 30 seconds and he had no way to remember it all: [QUOTE] >For crying out loud, he flashed the damned document at us but >would never allow us to have a copy. I was busy looking at Easley's >signature block and trying to find anything I could in the thirty >seconds I had it in my hand. Sorry that my powers of observation >aren't as honed as they should have been. I just didn't notice that >when I saw the document. . . . <SNIP>So the point is, I saw the Easley letter once. I don't know >about some of the others. I did notice that the letterhead and >the little "war bond" symbols were on it, just as they appeared >on one version of the 1947 Twining letter. I tried to pick out >key phrases that would tell the thing was a fake, but just >didn't have time. Had he provided a copy, then, I think that >would have ended the game. He must have known that. [END QUOTES] http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/nov/m27-012.shtml So Kevin said he just couldn't read it long enough to remember details that might have allowed FOIA requests to be filed at, say, the RDB/JRDB files of Vannevar Bush at the National Archives -- even though the memo was allegedly sent to a very short list of only three agencies in a distribution list that was near the top of the memo, "To: JRDB, AFSA, AIRD." Wasn't anyone interested in who allegedly RECEIVED Easley's very important memo? And Kevin, saying you only "saw" the memo once and couldn't remember it well is not very forthcoming if you had the COMPLETE text copy from the video reading available to study and transcribe for "KEY PHRASES" and such to try to "tell the thing was a fake." The existence of a read-aloud copy of the "most sensational" Easley memo which describes the purported recovery of an "interplanetary craft" and the "diversionary sites" created as a coverup, is never even hinted at in the CUFOS website article which claims: As explained by Kevin Randle in the first section of this article, Kaufmann has shown investigators other documents that purportedly were actual military records about the recovery of the Roswell object. He never allowed anyone to make copies of these documents, and they were shown fleetingly to investigators, which never provided enough time to copy or memorize their contents. Wasn't a read-aloud copy a type of "copy"? Wasn't a verbatim copy like that even better than trying to "memorize contents"? If there was a portion not read by Kaufmann into the video camera couldn't someone have simply tried to get another peek at the memo to try to memorize the few things that were left that presumably were missing? Wasn't this important enough to try to do with a document allegedly proving the recovery of an alien spaceship at Roswell, that would "end the debate" (see next)? Kevin's portion of the CUFOS article likewise claims: That [Easley memo] answered all the questions and would effectively end the [Roswell] debate. The problem, of course, was that Kaufmann would show the letter but he would not allow anyone a copy so that it could not be authenticated. But wasn't the copy that Kaufmann read into the video interview sufficient to allow research to "authenticate" it, from "key phrases" and such? All someone had to do was try to research where to file an FOIA request on AFSA for an official file copy of the Easley memo and they would surely have found out on the Web or from the Defense Dept (or National Archives or NSA) that AFSA did NOT EXIST yet in 1947. http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/nov/m26-020.shtml As I pointed out before, in my Nov. 26 post on UFO UpDates (see link above), the Armed Forces Security Agency (AFSA) did not exist until 1949, so the fact it was named here in a purportedly 1947 document would have been proof it was a crude forgery with sloppy historical research (if any) by the hoaxer. (AFSA was established by JCS Directive 2010 of May 24, 1949, and was the weak and seriously ineffectual predecessor of the NSA created on Oct 24, 1952, to rectify AFSA's enormous deficiencies -- hence the laughable imbecility of the MJ-12 hoaxers claiming any sort of high-powered status to AFSA). So I do not understand this Kevin. Now if you tell me that Kaufmann simply didn't read aloud the headings of the Easley memo listing AFSA, etc., into the video camera but only read the main body of text, then that doesn't solve the whole problem because throughout the main body of text the Easley memo repeatedly refers to document filings with the "Directorate of Intelligence" and its subunits. And it pinpoints the specific division, the Requirements Division or AIRD (Air Intelligence Requirements Division) of the "Directorate of Intelligence," and even the specific branch within that division, the Collection Branch, which should have helped with archival document searches. (Recall that "AIRD" was one of the three agencies in the distribution list at the top, and it is repeated again twice in the first two paragraphs, too.) Clearly these were important paper trail clues to an organization and its subunits that figured prominently throughout the entire Easley memo, not just in one supposedly forgettable spot. Here was a very important lead "the Directorate of Intelligence and its AIRD -- to pursue at the National Archives and/or with FOIA to try to find the Easley memo in the files to authenticate it, and to try to find other documents on the alleged UFO recovery and lab analyses of the alien spacecraft and cadavers. (But it was also proof of hoax too because the "Directorate of Intelligence" did not yet exist either, in July 1947, as the hoaxer was a history moron who didn't bother to check out important details like making sure his freakin' agencies actually existed as of the dates he was making up for the documents he was fabricating. See below.) So what was done to pursue this vitally important lead and if not why not? Was there anything more important in Roswell investigations to do besides this -- if Kaufmann was supposedly still regarded as credible? Wasn't the Kaufmann documentation just about the most important Roswell evidence known " if it was possibly genuine? Or is the real story that Kaufmann was already deemed non- credible or very low credibility as of the time of this videotape interview in 1999/2000 so no one thought it was worth the effort to pursue FOIA's, Archives research, etc., on the Easley memo that he read into the videotape interview? Or was the problem that the details in the Easley memo and other forgeries were mistakenly thought to be highly CONVINCING "without any checking at all? For example, instead of seeing that it provided conclusive proof of a poorly researched hoax, the CUFOS article states that the Easley memo and other documents seemed to "CONFIRM" Kaufmann's story because of details such as the following!: (Capitals added.) The acronym AIRD appears twice ... and could refer to the Air Intelligence Requirements Division in the Army Air Force [sic; Forces]. If so, this would CONFIRM Kaufmann's claimed work in intelligence duties [in July 1947]. But the Air Force Directorate of Intelligence wasn't even set up until Oct 10, 1947, when the first Director of Intelligence was appointed. Until then it was called A-2 (because its chief was called the AC/AS-2, Asst Chief of Air Staff-2). So that should have provided proof again that Kaufmann had a hoaxed July 1947 Easley memo he was promoting and that he had probably hoaxed it himself. Kevin you rightly warn against misguided efforts to try to rehabilitate Kaufmann even in the face of such a devastating mass of evidence of deceit. However one lesson that never gets learned is the Myth of the 100% Lie. This myth claims that a hoax cannot be proved unless everything in the story, 100% of it, is proven to be a lie and if ANY of the story is true then the whole story "might" be true, and if it "might" be true then it can never be proven false. The Woods have made ample use of this false methodology to continually promote the "authenticity" of the fraudulent MJ-12 documents. Here, the Easley memo and other documents from Kaufmann's papers dated July-Sept 1947 (forged dates of course) refer to the genuine AC/AS-2 and AIRD in the correct time frame. Does that make them genuine documents just because SOME details "such as the name of the Roswell base, units, AIRD, etc." are true, even though other details are badly botched impossibilities of nonexistent agencies that a 90's forger hacked up, knowing next to nothing about 1947 history? Hoaxers and conmen always mix truth with fiction, in order better to deceive their victims. Why should that be a point of contention? Yet it is not Ufology's operating principle, which is to believe all lies, half-truths, and unsubstantiated claims, until absolutely proven otherwise "and one can never prove falsity to true believers and true debunkers because as fanatics they possess no good judgment for balancing extremes to get a grip on practical reality. One cannot get a balanced assessment of ALL the evidence on a subject from extremists because everything is argued to the extreme in order to prove their case. Like shyster lawyers mounds of inconvenient evidence are covered up and when forced to confront any of it then whatever sorry excuse and hairsplitting that _can_ be invented _will_ be invented, and used to try to defeat the inconvenient evidence by propaganda tactics, not on the evidence's merits. To the true fanatic the _possibility_ of an extreme is proof of it, nothing further is required, except maybe as lip service to convince others that the fanatic is a reasonable person. How many times is ETH argued for on the basis of shrill pleas from extremists of remote "possibilities" - while ignoring what is probable or reasonable? When demonstrable falsehoods are found in a witness' story or in an alleged document it calls into question the entire story, the entire document, the entire witness. Only the foolish will continue to waste their time "investigating" such fraudulent claims on the grounds they believe there is still "truth" to be found in them and that they are seeking that "truth" but all the while pretending they see no lies or are "not fooled" by the lies, which they do not even bother to study or diagnose. That is an extremely biased methodology fraught with peril. A very few extremely perceptive investigators may in some rare cases be able to find some truth among the lies but the UFO field is certainly one with few so qualified to do so. And those few well qualified investigators must proceed by dissecting the lies, not ignoring them or pretending they are trivial. Anything less is a copout and evidence of bias and fanaticism. Philosophically it is not even possible to assert a "100% lie" because all communication conveys some valid information even if it is merely the letters making up the words, or the obedience to grammatical rules necessary to form an intelligible sentence. If one tries to evade this constraint by rendering letters into noise, well even noise has patterns, is not totally random, and it consists of true fluctuations of atoms and molecules "truly" obeying fixed physical laws in an orderly and consistent fashion. More comments below. http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/dec/m21-006.shtml >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com >Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 11:06:45 EST >Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 15:14:41 -0500 >Subject: Re: Frank Kaufmann Exposed - Randle >>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 15:47:10 +0100 >>Subject: Re: Frank Kaufmann Exposed >>>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 13:26:19 -0800 >>>Subject: Re: Frank Kaufmann Exposed >>In another post, answering me, Kevin Randle demands an answer >>to his question: >>>Before we start, let me ask a simple question. How many lies >>>and how many forged documents must we discover before we decide >>>that a witness is unreliable? No, I'm not referring to little >>>mistakes that are the fault of memory tricks, but of honest to >>>gosh lies and documents that were forged." >Because no one seems to want to deal with this aspect of >research. It happens to us all the time and we just march right >passed it, whistling happily. We have caught any number of >witnesses and researchers inventing documents and lying, but we >ignore it all. I just wondered how many lies and how many forged >documents must be found before we decide that a witness or >researcher is unreliable and we remove them from our lists, >notes, and theories. Kevin this is an excellent question "how many lies, contradictions or off-the-cuff nonsense before we delete him from consideration as non-credible? With Kaufmann shouldn't his story already have been rejected in the early 90's? That is when his story about jerry-rigged mirrors at the air defense radar site tracking the UFO crash late at night on a weekend could have been exposed by researching air defense history (e.g., Ken Schaffel's 1991 book The Emerging Shield and other sources, the Air Defense Museum on the Web, etc.). There weren't any air defense radars in NM in July 1947, none until 1951, and Air Defense Command radars nationally did not go on 24/7 operation until at least June 27, 1950, after the Korean War broke out. Until then ADC radar sites were on DAYTIME WEEKDAYS ONLY schedule "they did not run on nights or weekends. You can scream and rant and rave all you want that that is a ridiculous schedule for an air defense but the fact is that SAC militants initially did not want ANY AIR DEFENSE to divert "their" scarce finances even to that shabby part-time ADC posture and SAC bullies kept whining about how it was all just foolish "Maginot Line" thinking. ADC leaders had to kowtow to the SAC zealots and sometimes would even bash the concept of air defense publicly just to assure everyone they were all on the SAC-Comes-First team. As for non-ADC radars in NM that could have been used for air defense, none of the tracking radars at Holloman/White Sands were in operation at night or a weekend night, especially not in July 1947 when missile and other programs had been virtually shut down by post-war budget cuts (any tests requiring radar and optical tracking were done in daytime). The extremist debunker argument that there were no radars at all there in NM is just bunk. Arguments about limited range settings are also bunk "radars were modified to track missiles on long-range tests, etc. (Project MOGUL itself modified a radar in 1947 to 200+ miles range). However, tracking radars with their narrow beams are not good search radars for air defense surveillance "you have to already know where the object you want to track is located in the sky in order to point the radar beam in that direction. http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/nov/m27-012.shtml >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com >Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 12:31:44 EST >Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 22:41:28 -0500 >Subject: Re: Frank Kaufmann Exposed - Randle http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/nov/m26-020.shtml >>From: Brad Sparks >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:47:34 EST >>Subject: Frank Kaufmann Exposed >Good Morning, List, All - >Brad Sparks wrote: >>The new expose of Frank Kaufmann's patently obvious bogus >>storytelling has now been posted to the CUFOS website: >>http://www.cufos.org/ >>with compelling evidence that Kaufmann forged his military >>papers which he showed Roswell investigators in order to bolster >>his ridiculous story of special intelligence assignments (the >>original and the forgery were both found in his papers and there >>is evidence of rubber cementing of papers over the original). >>My question is why should it take so long to realize that >>Kaufmann was a hoaxer and a liar? . . . >>We can now read a copy of the forged Maj. Easley memo of "July >>30, 1947" describing the imaginary saucer recovery operation, >>which had previously only been flashed to Roswell researchers >>who were not allowed by Kaufmann to take a copy. >>My question here is why, if the memo is addressed at the top >>"To: JRDB, AFSA, AIRD" weren't these agencies followed up as >>they might have been sources for confirmatory copies of the >>Easley memo and other documentation? Wouldn't Vannevar Bush's >>JRDB have been an exciting lead to chase in light of the >>misguided Wilbert Smith memo of 1950? Didn't anyone have a good >>enough memory to recall these telltale agency paper-trail clues? >For crying out loud, he flashed the damned document at us but >would never allow us to have a copy. I was busy looking at Easley's >signature block and trying to find anything I could in the thirty >seconds I had it in my hand. Sorry that my powers of observation >aren't as honed as they should have been. I just didn't notice that >when I saw the document. <snip> >Or did Roswell researchers indeed follow up on these agencies >>and didn't tell anyone about the negative results? Do we need >>an investigation of the investigators just to find out what is >>really going on with the Roswell case? Did Ufologists find out >>that AFSA did NOT EVEN EXIST YET in 1947, that it was created >>two years later by JCS Directive 2010 of May 24, 1949, and was >>the predecessor of the NSA? Wouldn't this be damning proof that >>the Easley memo was a blatant hoax by a con man who was a moron >>on military and intelligence history, who couldn't keep agencies >>and their dates of formation straight? (BTW, the bogus MJ-12 >>"1st Annual Report" of Oct 1952, which should be dated 1948 if >>it was the first annual report after 1947, suffers from the same >>stupidity of the nitwit hoaxer by claiming it covers 5 years of >>AFSA intelligence activities, when AFSA had only been in >>existence 3 years.) >>Why wasn't the AFSA reference the smoking gun that should have >>disposed of Kaufmann years ago? Are we going to be told that no >>one saw the forged Easley memo long enough to remember "AFSA" >>was at the top? Did anyone get shown the forgery more than once >>or get to take some notes? Are we going to hear excuse after >>excuse that no one was really a document investigator, or their >>attention was on other things in the memo, or no one knew what >>the abbreviations meant (yeah right, no one knew Vannevar Bush >>headed JRDB)? >Had we been allowed to hang onto the documents, we would have >investigated them, just as we did once we had them in hand. Well you had "in Hand" the text from the 1999/2000 video interview of Kaufmann. Now that you have had the documents to "hang onto" for what, over 1-1/2 years now, what FOIA/Archives research has been done to uncover the NONEXISTENCE of AFSA and the NONEXISTENCE of the Directorate of Intelligence in July-Sept 1947, the dates of several of Kaufmann's forged documents? How come we aren't given the DATE when you/Mark Rodeghier/Don Schmitt got the documents in 2001? Is that because there was a desire to conceal how long a time these documents have been withheld without doing much research so people like me wouldn't get mad? It takes a chance encounter by Dave Rudiak with Don Schmitt in Roswell in Aug 2001 to establish that in retrospect you guys already had gotten the Easley memo and other forged documents out of the late Frank Kaufmann's papers by then, Aug 2001 or some months earlier (Kaufmann died in February apparently). See Dave's Dec. 18 post: http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/dec/m18-014.shtm Why can't we have the exact date? Why must I fish around for the chronology of your investigations by piecing together stray bits of data like that? What kind of investigative article withholds vital details like the dates when the investigation was carried out? Why can't we have the dates of the Lester Garrigues interview and contacts? The CUFOS article is strangely devoid of a lot of DATES and references. Why is that? Regards, Brad Sparks
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 1 Re: Rendlesham Forest - 12/1980 - Bowden From: Tom Bowden <tomrbowden@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 06:01:30 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 19:52:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Rendlesham Forest - 12/1980 - Bowden >From: Paul F. Kisak<kki@visuallink.com> >To:<ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 16:43:03 -0500 >Subject: Re: Rendlesham Forest - 12/1980 >>From: Tom Bowden<tomrbowden@yahoo.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 00:15:21 -0800 (PST) >>Subject: Rendlesham Forest case of 12/1980 <snip> >In brief, I would like to know what we have to work with the >Rendlesham Forest case. Does it have good, sturdy legs? <snip> >>The USAF Woodbridge Base/Rendlesham has undergone some >>credible debunking. >>Based on my experience within the US Intelligence community, a >>congressional committee will not produce much more than they >>have in the past. <snip> Paul, Much thanks for your valuable feedback. I have read about the Belgium case, and it is very good. What sources can you quote as "credible debunking" of the Rendlesham - Woodbridge case? I am looking for something more than armchair skeptics saying "they saw the lighthouse". I am interested in all sides of the case, but if an explanation does not fit the majority of the observations in the case, then it is no explanation at all. Thanks again for your response, Tom B.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 1 Re: Security Classifications - Friedman From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com> Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 10:10:07 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 20:06:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Security Classifications - Friedman >From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 16:47:4 -0500 >Subject: Re: Security Classifications >>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 17:16:32 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Security Classifications >>>From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 21:47:50 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: Security Classifications ><snip> > >>>As I have said before it seems that whenever we start discussing >>>this topic, it is like a video game with everything reset to >>>zero. >I haven't had time to answer some messages I feel are important. >Now here goes. Again, the statement above applies. >>I have made a gigantic snip because there are just a few points >>I wish to make: >>1. I very much appreciate all the effort Robert Gates made to provide >>specific examples of aberrantly marked documents. >>2. I wish to express appreciation for these 2 remarks by Jan Aldrich >>"I don't pretend to be an expert on presidential papers" and >>"The White House has its own clearance and access procedures" >>This was my point, now confirmed by Jan, in noting earlier that >>Jan's fine credentials did not seem to include procedures etc >>for the White House, NSC, etc. The CT, TF, and EBE documents >>would seem to fall under the White House. >The point is taken, however, just because Stan Friedman and >Robert Gates have slogged through a number of formerly >classified White House papers does not make them experts either. >Neither have taken the time to learn about security procedure at >the White House. Now in the early days several White House >classified items list AR (Army Regulation) 380-5 as the >authority for certain classified actions. No doubt because the >White House communication is run by the Army. >>3. With regard to the need for TS Control numbers I referred >>specifically to pages B-4 and B-5 in my "Final Report on >>Operation Majestic 12" since these 2 TOP SECRET Documents from >>Robert Cutler, which were found in the papers of General Nathan >>Twining at the LCMD, did _not_ have TS Control numbers. >>The two pages were ignored by Jan in his response. Instead he >>refers to pages E-11,E-12,E-13. These pages do make an >>important point since each has a different date format, >>contrary to the notion of Joe Nickell who objected to the EBE >>because its date format did not follow the government style >>manual. >1. B-4 and B-5 are not White House documents. They were, as you >say, found in the papers of General Twining. Jan, you must need new glasses. Page B-5 is MEMORANDUM for General Twining, signed by Robert Cutler, Special Assistant to the President {for National Security} The stationery says THE WHITE HOUSE ,WASHINGTON at the top. I should think any reasonable person would accept that this is a White House document. Page B-4 is a copy of a memo for the sec. of Defense also from Robert Cutler though with a /s/prior to his name. This means original signed by Robert Cutler.Cutler worked at the White House. Whether you like it or not, both TOP SECRET documents originated from Robert Cutler at the White House and were received by General Twining.Perhaps you have forgotten that the infamous Cutler Twining document involved the same two people? One would think these two 1-page TOP SECRET documents might have some relevance to an evaluation of the one page TOP SECRET RESTRICTED Cutler Twining memo. Normally the originating office puts on classification markings. Note further that the last line in B-5 is "In order to avoid communication on this subject, it is understood that in the absence of contrary word your concurrence in the above arrangements is assumed".. The last line of the CT memo(found at the National Archives not the Lib. of Cong. Manusc. Div.) is "Your concurrence in the above changeof arrangements is assumed". >2. The items at page E-11, E-12, and E-13 are White House >documents that is, the last people to have custody of these >documents while they were classified was the White House. The >specific pages also contain no classified information but are >stamped Top Secret. One has as previous pointed out a TS control >number, while the other two do not, probably a clerical decision >to separate the transmittal letters from the classified material >in the latter case. I also gave several reasons why certain >pages or record included in folders or files might not have TS >control numbers. Basically the above comments are irrelevant to the problem at hand. As I noted in my "Final Report on Operation Majestic 12", they were included to demonstrate that an imporant official (DCI Dulles) sent three items to the White House within a 10 day period with 3 different date formats. Dr. Joe Nickell didn't like the EBD because it used a non standard date format. >>I will repeat once again that I cannot provide copies of the TOP >>SECRET RESTRICTED Documents noted by the GAO because they were >>still classified. I tried. >And Secret Restricted and Confidential Restricted? So there are >not examples of these to be had? Again this is irrelevant, Jan. The CT memo is marked TOP SECRET RESTRICTED. The GAO referred specifically to TSR whether you like it or not. Their comment is good enough for me and establishes to any reasonable person that this classification was occasionally in use in the time period of interest. If I had supplied a ref. to Secret Restricted, you would say that doesn't prove there were TSR documents.Kind of a bait and switch technique isn't it, Jan? >>But, Jan, since you have my report, please see pages B-4, and B- >>5 to add to your collection of genuine TS documents without TS >>control numbers. >But you had the answer, you just cut it out. These are >declassified documents, they are not seen in their original >context. THIS STATEMENT IS TOTALLY FALSE. If you will look at my report at pages B-4 and B-5, you will note that there are no declassification stamps on them. There is my hand written comment "Note: There is no declassification stamp ". Please get new glasses. As a matter of factone of thefunniest scenes I have seen during mymany visits to a total of 19 Archives involved just this point. I was with a Japanese Film crew at the LCMD. They were not allowed to film in the reading room but wanted to film theoriginals of B-4 and B-5. I pointedthe clerk who went to get them in the closed storage area to box 120, Eyes Only Folder. She came back and handed them to thwoman in charge. who suddenly realized that while the box had been declassified, these two pages had not been. She dashed to her desk pulled out a declassification stamp and used it more than once on each document. Jan they were pristine. I of course had copied them during my earlier visit.Copies in my FRMJ are as made originally. Please note again that these two one page TS documents have no TS control numbers. The EBD is Copy One of One of a compartmentalized TOP SECRET MAJIC Eyes Only Document. It also, as to be expected for such a classification, has no TS control number. >However, I can trump anything you have said, I have a Top Secret >document that has not marking on it at all. No Top Secret, no >nuthin'. Sounds like a kid I knew who was bragging his father was tougher than anybody elses. Totally irrelevant. >http://209.132.68.98/documents/pdf/hillenkoetter-menzel_sept1963.pdf >I obtained my copy from the APL, it had no classified marking >and is otherwise completely clean. I like what the Woods have >done with it though, crude lettering of Top Secret and CIA Copy, >sooooh convincing. >Of course, there are a whole bunch of these things on the Woods' >website. They just have no shame whatsoever. They are still >pushing the Aquarius Briefing document fabricated with a cover >sheet used for high level correspondence so there were be no >smears or stray marks on important letters or items. How silly? >What is even sillier even after that has been demonstrated, >people still believe it and wasted time and money chasing it. >Looking at a review of the an MJ-12 presentation Bill Hamilton >said the one of the main objections to MJ-12 was the lack of TS >control numbers which the Woods had answered. >That is what the Woods would like people to think. One of the >main objections to MJ-12 that the MJ-12 people are incredibly >stupid, just less stupid that the three other birds in Bill >Moore's aviary, the Loon, the Cookoo, and the Turkey, birds who >swallow this kind of thing. Lack TS control numbers is one of >the more minor objections. >In SOM 1-01, MJ-12 proves that they don't know much about >technical intelligence, logistics, security, or even elementary >military operations. Nor do they know how to communicate the >information to the people who must carry out the operation. In >just 24 hours I listed over 50 objections to this silly >document. Most have stood up pretty well, but the Woods claim >they have countered all my objections. I have yet to see any >such refutations. >And, of course, Stan, you are still pushing this thing pretty >hard, also. Really, Jan? And where is that? I published a detailed refutation of the Tim Cooper MJ-12 documents in my MUFON 2000 paper "Roswell and the MJ-12.Documents in the New Millennium". More Bait and Switch, Jan.Yes, I cannot see any good reasons to say the EBD, CT, TF documents are false. I am working on a detailed review of Dr. Randle's new book "Case MJ-12" to note, as previously stated here, errors of omission and commission. >Most of the other long MJ-12 documents have all kinds of place >or out of time errors in them, however, to point them out would >just give Cooper, Wood, and Wood criticism to do better in the >next set of documents. >Jan Aldrich >Project 1947 >http://www.project1947.com/ >P. O. Box 391 >Canterbury, CT 06331 >(860) 546-9135 >PS I just noticed this one. So stupid it is unbelievable. >http://209.132.68.98/documents/pdf/ipu_fieldorder.pdf >Hello, who signed the thing? Who do they contact when some >officer going by orders put out by the CofS to reduce all flying >to a minimum will not release fuel for their flight, hm? Just to >whom do they report? The secretary at the front desk? There are >other thing wrong with this document, it is like doing a >crossword. See how many stupid things you can come up with, >gentle reader? >Don't expect the Woods to come up with any! Nothing like changing the subject. We were talking about TS Control numbers not being on all White House documents... and the unusual TSR classification. Why not just admit you were wrong, Jan? Or is that asking too much? Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 1 Anomaly Foundation Site English Highlights 02-03 From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos@yahoo.es> Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 16:55:31 +0100 (CET) Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 20:09:47 -0500 Subject: Anomaly Foundation Site English Highlights 02-03 Dear friend: The "Anomaly Foundation" is a not-for-profit organization, based in Spain (Europe) and approved 1997 by the Spanish Ministry of Education and Culture. Aimed to perform, encourage and fund scientific-oriented UFO research, it collects financial donations from individuals and companies in order to achieve its objectives (in Spain, donations are 25% and 35% tax-deductible, respectively). The Anomaly Foundation provides grants, scholarships and prizes (one international in scope) and it regularly publishes two journals ("Cuadernos de Ufolog=EDa" and "@nomal=EDa"), as well as books under its "Camille Flammarion UFO Library". The Foundation=B4s Board is formed by a large group of experienced, dedicated UFO investigators from all over Spain who have created a lot of sinergy by combining their forces, talents and resources towards a common goal. Our web site: http://www.anomalia.org is in Spanish language but you will find relevant papers and information in English in the following links: "What it is the Anomaly Foundation" <http://www.anomalia.org/english.htm> "UFO book by V.J. Ballester Olmos again available" <http://www.anomalia.org/g009.htm> "Declassification! Military UFO Records Released: The Spanish Experience", by V.J. Ballester Olmos: <http://www.anomalia.org/declass.htm> "Anomaly Foundation Solves the Manises UFO Case": <http://www.anomalia.org/manisen.htm> "UFOs (Ballistic Missiles) in the Canary Islands": <http://www.anomalia.org/canen.htm> "The V.J. Ballester 0lmos UFO Bibliography, 1965-2002": <http://www.anomalia.org/bibliog1.pdf> "The International Zurich UFO Prize By-Laws": <http://www.anomalia.org/d002.htm> "The Icefall Phenomenon investigated": <http://www.anomalia.org/premio01en.htm> "Ummo, the Planet of the Anonymous Correspondents", by Luis R. Gonzalez <http://www.anomalia.org/ummo_en.pdf> "FOTOCAT Project": <http://www.anomalia.org/fotocat1-htm> In addition to the English section, the Spanish-speaking readers will also benefit from plenty of other interesting information in the web site. You are very much encouraged to assist to the development of our objectives with donations aimed to promote and support UFO research. Your material help will be very much appreciated. Any cheques (payable to "Anomaly Foundation") can be mailed to: ANOMALY FOUNDATION APARTADO 5041 39080 SANTANDER SPAIN Yours sincerely, Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos Research Director, Anomaly Foundation <ballesterolmos@yahoo.es> January 2003
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 1 Re: 2002 Humanoid Reports - Peterborough From: Kelly Peterborough <kellymcg@attcanada.ca> Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 11:28:28 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 20:11:45 -0500 Subject: Re: 2002 Humanoid Reports - Peterborough >From: Albert Rosales <Garuda79@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 11:32:05 EST >Subject: 2002 Humanoid Reports Hi Albert, I find the 2002 Humanoid Reports very interesting! Thank you for posting it. Is it okay to share this report with other Lists? If so, should you be credited as the author or compiler (as you seem to be!) And could you explain the classifications of the cases? (I think I've guessed them, but just to be sure!) Or, do you have a Web site where people can find this information? I wrote to the List instead of you personally, as I am sure other people would be interested in your answers too! Happy New Year! Kelly
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 1 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 1 From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 17:06:22 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 20:14:20 -0500 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 1 Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor. <Masinaigan@aol.com> ========================== UFO ROUNDUP Volume 8, Number 1 January 1, 2003 Editor: Joseph Trainor http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/ NUMEROUS UFOs SEEN IN CARACAS, VENEZUELA South America's UFO flap is still going strong in Caracas, the capital of Venezuela. Sightings were reported in several parts of the city last week. "According to Venezuelan ufologist Arturo Escalante, there have been numerous sightings in Caracas recently," during a period of civil unrest in the Venezuelan capital. "On Friday, December 13, 2002, at 6:30 p.m., Prof. Amelia Santodomingo observed a giant luminous sphere with multicolored lights hovering over the Paseo de Los Proceres. Later the same evening, three witnesses observed the same luminous sphere over the barrio Galipan (neighborhood) in the vicinity of Cerro Avila (hill). The large object flew circles above this area, then retreated towards the mountains where it finally disappeared." "On Monday, December 16, 2002, at 7:07 p.m., according to Marisa Rodriguez, editor of the magazine Too Much, singer Deborah Sachs and her agent, Ingrid Angulo, observed a strange object suspended silently in the southeastern sky, displaying intermittent red and yellow lights 'dispersed in the form of a wedding ring.' This UFO rose in the air to an altitude of 120 meters (396 feet) above the buildings in the Los Riscos area of Caracas. The object finally departed and was lost in the horizon." (See NotiOVNI for December 22, 2002. Muchas gracias a Daniel Munoz y Martha Rosenthal para esos informes.) UFO FLOTILLA SIGHTED IN MANLY, NEW ZEALAND On Tuesday, December 24, 2002, at 11 p.m., Karen Dugdale and her son were at ther home in Little Manly, Whangaparaoa, New Zealand when, looking south towards Manly, she saw "several round shapes of 10 to 12, green in colour, which appeared to be in one large circle (formation--J.T.)." "The objects travelled from within the large white cloud and moved from top to right to bottom to left of the clouds. My son seems to think it was moving in a circular motion. And, as the cloud changed shape and became smaller, the circle of lights disappeared until it vanished altogether." The UFOs, Mrs. Dugdale reported, were "colour: green and shaped round." She described the formation as looking like this: 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 "As it moved, the circles stayed together as one circle. This lasted approximately 20 minutes." (Email Form Report) GROUP SAYS ALIENS HELPED CLONE THE FIRST HUMAN "A group whose spiritual leader says extraterrestrials developed cloning as a route to eternal life claimed Friday," December 27, 2002, "to have produced the first human clone in the form of a 7-pound baby girl--but most scientists greeted the claim with skepticism because of the group's weak credentials." "If genetic tests to be performed in the next week support the claim, it would mark what many scientists and ethicists consider a reckless application of cloning technology, which has run into safety problems in animal studies." "Friday's cloning announcement was made in Florida by Brigitte Boisselier, a chemist and follower of a French-born religious leader named Rael, who started his extraterrestrial-venerating sect in the 1970s." "Boisselier said the baby was born Thursday," December 26, 2002, "at an undisclosed site to a 31-year- old American woman whose cells were used to make the cloned infant." "'The baby is very healthy, and she's doing fine,' Boisselier said." "Most researchers said that although human cloning may be technically possible, they doubted that Boisselier--who is not a specialist in reproductive technology--has assembled a team with the expertise to pull it off." "'They have absolutely no scientific track record, and they've published no papers in the field. They haven't even cloned a mouse,' said Dr. Robert Lanza, vice president of medical and scientific development at Massachusetts-based Advanced Cell Technology, Inc. That company announced last year (2001) that it had made human embryonic clones for research purposes, though the embryos were not intended to develop into babies." "Boisselier is a 'bishop' in the movement founded by Rael, who was born Claude Vorilhon and who spent his early years in France as a race car diver and journalist." "In 1974, Rael released The Book Which Tells the Truth, in which he described how extraterrestrials called the Elohim took him to their home planet and explained to him how they created life on Earth." "In his 2001 book Yes to Human Cloning, Rael said the aliens had cloned him." "'I saw the Elohim insert a cell taken from my forehead into a huge aquarium-like machine...and then watched a perfect copy of myself grow in just a few seconds,' Rael wrote." "Boisselier said the baby produced by Clonaid--whom the group's scientists nicknamed Eve--was conceived using one of the mother's eggs and DNA taken from one of the mother's skin cells." "If the child is a clone, she would essentially be an identical twin of her mother and should have precisely the same DNA. Michael Guillen, a former science editor with ABC (American Broadcasting Company--J.T.) News said Friday that he has arranged with Clonaid to have independent experts test DNA from the baby and her mother." "Cloning a person may not be a difficult feat for scientists with the right training in reproductive technology. Fertility treatments that involve injecting a single sperm into an egg use many of the same techniques needed for cloning, which is why most experts did not dismiss Clonaid's claims out of hand." "'There are hundreds or thousands of people who can do the work,' said Mark Westhusin, a cloning researcher at Texas A&M University." "But Boisselier has not said who is on her team, and she did not release photos of the baby or any DNA evidence to back her claim." "'I just think it's completely irresponsible,' said Westhusin, who this year (2002) led the first successful effort to clone a cat. 'As big a concern as whether you get a baby who's healthy today is whether that individual will be healthy 10 to 20 years from now or be disposed to serious human diseases. We need more animal studies before we can ever say this is safe.'" (Editor's Comment: Here's a classic case of a pot calling the kettle black. Irresponsible? What do you call spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to do what any back-alley tomcat will do for free?) "Some ethicists believe cloning is wrong in principle, citing the possibility it will lead to an industry of designer babies or hamper a child's ability to form a unique identity." "'The very attempt to clone a human being is evil,' said Stanley Hauerwas, a professor of theological ethics at Duke University. 'Even to imagine that we should clone a human being is a sign that, as the novelist Walker Percy put it, we are 'lost in the cosmos.'" "A spokesman for President Bush reiterated on Friday the (Republican) administration's opposition to all forms of human cloning." "Last month (November 2002) the Bush administration delayed for one year a United Nations vote on a global ban on reproductive cloning, saying the measure was insufficient because it did not include cloning for research." (See the Chicago Tribune for December 28, 2002, "Cloning of baby doubted, damned," page 1, and "Clone: No evidence released to back claim," page 8.) (Editor's Comment: You just know 2003 is going to be a wild year when big mainstream newspapers like the Chicago Tribune start running the kinds of stories you usually see in NotiOVNI, Filer's Files and UFO Roundup.) DEAD CHUPACABRA FOUND IN PUERTO RICO? "A discovery only increases the mystery: the bones of a strange creature disturbed the calm days of Christmas activities in the town of" Jayuya, Puerto Rico. "The animal remains were found on Tuesday," December 24, 2002, "at 1:30 p.m. while young Angel Oquendo, 6, was playing with his brother, Sixto, 10, between the supports of footings of a recently-built dwelling on a family property in the Canalizo sector of Utuado, P.R." "According to Adelaida Quiles, Angel's mother, the boy summoned her while they were roasting a pig for Christmas Eve dinner." "'He called me, saying, 'Mommy, come here. There's a dead mouse,' and I ignored him. But he kept calling, and I asked my husband to take over the preparations (for dinner--J.T.) while I took a look,'" Sra. Quiles said. "As soon as she found the dead animal's remains near one of the house's supports, she called her husband, Cesar Oquendo, realizing that the remains were not something she could readily identify. They slid a piece of cardboard under it to bring it out into the light." "'Upon seeing it, we wondered if this thing could be the Chupacabra or something,' said Quiles." "A quick observation revealed that the animal had no traces of wool, hair or feathers on its carcass. Nor was there any evidence of it having upper extremities or wings." "The creature would have stood approximately 2 feet (0.6 meters) tall and was supported by its rear extremities, which had pronounced claws and three equally long bones. This gave the impression that it was able to jump to considerable heights. Its wide elongated head, with prominent eyes, supported a complete set of teeth with long upper fangs, two of them in the molar area and another in the bottom jaw, marking its carnivorous nature." "The ears were palm-shaped and measured only an inch (2.5 centimeters) in length, and there was a curved shape to its spinal column. The creature had a partial tail measuring nearly 1.5 feet (0.45 meters) long, similar to that of a reptile, and it appeared to have provided support for it as it walked." "The suspicion among the local residents was still considerable as they awaited the arrival of a Forensic Sciences researcher who would identify the animal's characteristics." "Curiously, several birds had been slain months ago on the same rural property. Eight hens and one rooster were found slain outside their cages and had belonged to Victor Quiles, Adelaida's father." "Jose Carlos Rivera, residing in the same area, lost five hens consecutively at the same time and in the same manner. He stated that an uncle of his lost 23 animals and his sister another two. Rivera, a traveling food vendor near the entrance of the town, claimed not to have experienced further attacks and had paid no further attention to the incidents." (See the Puerto Rican newspaper Primera Hora for December 29, 2002. Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales y Luiseppe Quinones para eso articulo de diario.) MYSTERY FIREBALL SIGHTED IN NORTHEASTERN SCOTLAND "A mystery object was seen streaking through the sky near" a community in northeastern Scotland, UK. "A comet-like ball was seen plunging towards the sea off Cammachmore, near Stonehaven. The bizarre X-Files- style sighting left residents baffled--but skywatchers believe it may have been a piece of space junk." "The Cammachmore 'comet' was spotted in unseasonably clear skies at around 10 in the morning" on Thursday, December 12, 2002. "'Myself and my husband were having a cup of coffee when something caught my eye out of the window,' said the woman, whose house overlooks the coast." "'We both stared out at the sky and could not believe what we were seeing. The object was hurtling straight down from the sky and was travelling at some speed.'" "The couple, who did not wish to be named, then grabbed binoculars to get a better view." "'I can only describe it as like looking at a ball...with a small comet-like tail behind it,' she said." "'My husband is a bit of a plane buff, and we both agreed this definitely was not any kind of aircraft.'" "The object then swiftly vanished from view within water." "Aberdeen coastguards were unaware of it. 'My guess is those people were confused by the sight of the sun for the first time in months,' said a spokesman." "A Met Office spokesman said, 'From the description, it sounds like it may well have been space debris.'" (See the Evening Express for December 13, 2002. Many thanks to Jim Hickman for this newspaper article.) WHITE SPHERICAL UFO SEEN NEAR VANCOUVER, B.C. On Saturday, December 21, 2002, the witness reported, "I was on the ferry going" across the Strait of Georgia "from Victoria, B.C. to Vancouver, B.C." on Canada's west coast. "At 9:20 a.m., I went out on the deck to have a cigarette. I was the only one out at that time because it was quite cool and windy. There was a blue sky but with lots of clouds that were moving quite fast because of the wind." "I saw a white ball or sphere-shaped object approaching a cloud. It didn't move very fast. It seemed to float, but I know it wasn't a balloon. It was very white. It didn't look very big, but who can tell at that height? I watched it for about ten seconds, not taking my eyes off it." "As it was approaching the cloud and then was covered by the wind, I waited for it to reappear after the wind moved the cloud, but I never saw it again. It either moved with the cloud or disappeared. It was moving in a northwesterly direction until it was covered by the cloud. Then I don't know what happened to it. The length of the event took approximately 10 to 15 seconds." (Many thanks to Canadian ufologist Brian Vike for this report.) LUMINOUS DAYTIME UFO SEEN IN ALPHARETTA, GEORGIA On Friday, December 20, 2002, at 11 a.m., Linda G. was outdoors on a break and walking along when she spotted a UFO over a vacant parking lot off North Point Parkway in Alpharetta, Georgia (population 34,854). "While I was alone and walking on my break at work, I saw a very large white glowing object in the sky about the size of a small airplane but completely round," Linda reported, "It seemed to drift like a very large balloon. I thought maybe it was a blimp, but it was completely white and radiated" light. "It came to hover above me, then continued to go to the right of me and then began to rise in the sky and went behind some clouds, leaving just a glowing light, until it disappeared. It moved as if it was gliding, picking up speed as it moved past me." "It sort of zeroed in on me. I felt as if there was an entity in the craft, or someone was looking at me the same way I was looking at it. After being noticed, it then decided to drift away." Alpharetta, Ga. is on Highway 9 approximately 22 miles (35 kilometers) northeast of Atlanta. (Email Form Report) OBERG AND SCIENTISTS CHALLENGE MOON-HOAX THEORISTS "Is that the moon or a studio in the Nevada desert? How can the flag flutter when there's no wind on the moon? Why can't we see stars in the moon-landing pictures?" "For three decades, NASA has taken the high road, ignoring those who claimed the Apollo moon landings were faked and part of a colossal government conspiracy." "The claims and suspicious questions like the ones cited here mostly showed up in books and on the Internet. But last year's prime-time FOX TV special on the so- called 'moon hoax' prompted schoolteachers and others to plead with NASA for factual information to fight back." "So a few months ago, the space agency budgeted $15,000 to hire a former rocket scientist and author to produce a small book refuting the disbelievers' claims. It would be written primarily with teachers and students in mind." "The idea backfired, however, embarrassing the space agency for responding to ignorance, and the book deal was chucked." "'The issue of trying to do a targeted response to this is just lending credibility to something that is, on its face, asinine,' NASA chief Sean O'Keefe said in late November (2002) after the dust settled." "So it's back to Square One--ignoring the hoaxers. That's troubling to some scientific experts who contend that someone needs to lead the fight against scientific illiteracy and the growing belief in pseudoscience like aliens and astrology." "Someone like NASA." "'If they don't speak out, who will?' asks Melissa Pollack, a senior analyst at the National Science Foundation." "Author James Oberg will. The former space shuttle flight controller plans to write the book NASA commissioned from him, even though. He's seeking money elsewhere. His working title: A Pall Over Apollo." "Tom Hanks will speak out, too." "The Academy Award-winning actor, who starred in the 1995 movie Apollo 13 and later directed the HBO mini- series, From the Earth to the Moon, is working on another lunar-themed project. The IMAX documentary will feature Apollo archival footage. Its title: Magnificent Desolation, astronaut Buzz Aldrin's real-time description of the moon on July 20, 1969." "While attending the Cape Canaveral premiere of the IMAX version of Apollo 13 in November (2002), Hanks said the film industry has a responsibility to promote historical literacy. He took a jab at the 1978 movie Capricorn One, which had NASA's first manned mission to Mars being faked on a sound stage." "'We live in a society where there is no law in making money in the promulgation of ignorance or, in some cases, stupidity,' Hanks said, 'There are a lot of things you can say never happened. You can go as relatively quasi-harmless as saying no one went to the moon. But you also can say that the Holocaust never happened.'" "A spokesman for the U.S. Holocaust Memorial in Washington says there will always be those who will not be convinced. But the museum does not engage them in debate." "The spokesman acknowledged, however, that if a major news channel was doing a program that questioned the authenticity of the Holocaust, 'I'd certainly want to inject myself into the debate with them in a very forceful way.'" "Television's FOX network was the moon-hoax purveyor. In February 2001 and again a month later, FOX broadcast a program titled Conspiracy Theory: Did We Land on the Moon?" "Roger Launius, who agreed to Oberg's book just before leaving NASA's history office, says the story about the moon hoax has been around a long time. But the FOX show "raised it to a new level, it gave it legs and credibility that it didn't have before.'" "Indeed the National Science Foundation's Pollack says two of her colleagues, after watching the FOX special, thought it was possible that NASA faked the moon landings. 'These are people who work at NSF,' she says." "The story went--and still goes--something like this: America was desperate to beat the Soviet Union to the moon but lacked the technology to pull it off. So NASA faked the six moon landings in a studio somewhere out West." "Ralph Rene, a retired carpenter in Passaic, New Jersey, takes it one step further. The space fakery started during the Gemini program (1964 to 1967--J.T.), according to Rene, author of the 1992 book, NASA Mooned America." "'I don't know what real achievements they've done because when do you trust a liar?' Rene says, 'I know we have a shuttle running around right above our heads, but that's only 175 miles up. It's under the shield (Van Allen radiation belts--J.T.). You cannot go through the shield and live.'" (Editor's Note: Ralph Rene and other moon-hoax theorists contend that, once beyond the safety of the Van Allen belts, the Apollo spacecraft were exposed to deadly solar and cosmic radiation that should have killed the astronauts.) "Alex Roland, a NASA historian during the 1970s and early 1980s, says his office used to have 'a kook drawer' for such correspondence. But there were no prime-time TV shows disputing the moon landings then--and no Internet." "Still, Roland would be inclined to 'just let it go because you'll probably just make it worse by giving it any official attention.'" "Within NASA, opinions were split about a rebuttal book. Oberg, a Houston-based author of 12 books, mostly about the Russian space program, said ignoring the problem 'just makes this harder. To a conspiracy mind, refusing to respond is a sign of cover-up.'" "Phil Plait, a Sonoma State University astronomer who picks apart the moon hoaxers' claims on his Bad Astronomy website, agrees that NASA should have followed through with the (Oberg) book but understands why it didn't." "'It became, as things like this do, a media circus. And by circus, I mean more like a carnival (fun fair in UK--J.T.),' Plait says, toot-toot-tootling like a calliope. He warns, 'There's a lot of antiscientific thinking, and if this stuff is allowed to continue, it's going to spell doom for our country.'" "Apollo 13 commander Jim Lovell does not know what else, if anything, can be done to confront this moon madness." "'All I know is that somebody sued me because I said I went to the moon,' says the 74-year-old astronaut. 'Of course, the courts threw it out.'" "The authorities also threw out the case involving Apollo 11 moonwalker Aldrin in September (2002)." "A much bigger and younger man was hounding the 72- year-old astronaut in Beverly Hills, California, calling him 'a coward and a liar and a thief' and trying to get him to swear on a Bible, on camera, that he walked on the moon. Aldrin, a Korean War (1950 to 1953--J.T.) combat pilot, responded with a fist in the chops." (See the Chicago Tribune for December 23, 2002, "Moon Madness," section 2, page 1, and "Moon: Sifting fact from fiction," section 2, page 5. See also UFO Roundup, volume 7, number 46 for November 12, 2002, "NASA kills Oberg's book," page 9.) (Editor's Comment: What I object to is lumping moon-hoax proponents like Ralph Rene with so-called Holocaust deniers, branding them both "a menace to society" and then targeting them for destruction. Does this animus also extend to UFO "believers?" How about "pyramid power" enthusiasts? Or the editorial gang at Fortean Times? The UFO community is not the enemy of the National Science Foundation. It never has been. You scientists claim to be able to think clearly. Don't let a few Zionist media barons--who have their own agenda-- stampede you into a jihad against students of anomalies.) ACTOR KENNETH TOBEY DIES AT AGE 85 Movie and TV actor Kenneth Tobey, "who had seven prolific decades playing small roles in movies such as the 1951 classic The Thing From Another World, and in numerous television series, died (Sunday) December 22 (2002)" in Rancho Mirage, California. He was 85." "Tobey often played a law enforcement officer, a soldier or military brass. His nearly 100 films ranged from Westerns to B-movie thrillers. He also appeared on dozens of TV programs" from the 1940s through the 1990s. His first TV appearance was in 1949, when "he played a sheriff's deputy in an episode of The Lone Ranger." "He also starred in" the 1955 syndicated TV show Whirlybirds, "playing the co-owner of a helicopter-for- hire." However, Tobey was best known for his role as "Captain Patrick Hendry" in the 1951 black-and-white film best known to science fiction fans as The Thing. In the movie, Tobey plays a U.S. Air Force officer stationed in Greenland who witnesses the crash of a UFO. The airmen's attempt to retrieve the saucer fails but not before they remove the frozen body of a humanoid alien, portrayed by actor Jim Arness. While Tobey and his companions wait for a blizzard to end, the alien thaws out in the storage shed, gets up, kills a sentry and then begins stalking the other humans at the remote ice station. "The film was remade as The Thing in 1982," with actor Kurt Russell in the Tobey role. (Many thanks to Loren Coleman for the Tobey obituary.) (Editor's Comment: There is one scene in that movie seared into my memory. Ken Tobey and the other parka- clad airmen forming a huge circle on the glacier, revealing the outline of the buried UFO. And that voice saying, "We've finally got one--a flying saucer!" There are no words to describe the transcendent thrill that your editor, a six-year-old boy watching The Thing at a Saturday matinee at the Park Theatre in Taunton, Massachusetts in the summer of 1956, experienced at that particular moment.) From the UFO Files... 1959: UFO INVOLVED IN AN AIRLINER CRASH "More puzzling is the light associated with the crash of a Southeast Airlines DC-3 the night of January 8, 1959, in east Tennessee." "It is a disaster I well remember since, as a newspaper reporter at the time, I had the unwelcome task of getting in touch with the parents of the pilot." "At 8:32 p.m., the pilot radioed Tri-Cities Airport (Kingsport, Bristol and Johnson City--V.H.G.) that he was making a normal approach for a landing after a flight from Memphis and Knoxville. Two hours earlier, a snowstorm had left a four-inch (10 centimeter) mantle (of snow--J.T.) on the ground, and the thermometer stood at fifteen degrees (Fahrenheit). Visibility in the haze was limited to five miles." "But the plane did not arrive. Hours passed. At 2 a.m. (January 9, 1959) airline officials said the airliner would have exhausted its fuel, but it had not appeared at any other airport. A search was launched and Southeast Airlines released to wire services the names of the three crewmen and seven passengers." "One of the passengers was Dr. R.L. Hasche, said to be the inventor of dry ice." "The searchers included volunteer rescue crew members, sheriff's officers from several (Tennessee) counties and Civil Air Patrol (CAP) flyers. A few hours before daylight, a search party reported to Captain Virgil Peck, CAP operations officer, that they had a light under observation in the Holston Mountain region, twenty miles (32 kilometers) east of the airport. The light answered the signals of the searchers. Highway patrolmen were sent to the scene and confirmed the report." "The point of observation was on U.S. Route 421, about two miles (3 kilometers) east of South Holston Lake. Captain Ed Allen of the Civil Air Patrol said it was a bright steady light a considerable distance away. It shone continuously. After all vehicle lights had been turned off, the captain took a powerful emergency searchlight and waved it from side to side. The distant light waved also. He moved the light up and down. Then the faraway light moved up and down." "An old-timer, who knew the mountain country well, said there were no camps, cabins or anything in that particular region that could account for the light. 'It just doesn't belong there,' he said." "Captain Peck radioed operations center at the airport and had a C-54 National Guard plane fly over the area. Although the pilot failed to see the light, the captain said that when the plane passed over the light's position, it 'seemed to go crazy. It waved furiously in all directions. There was no question in my mind at the time but that this was someone at the scene of the crash trying to direct the searchers to it.'" "Again the men signaled and the light responded. But when daylight came, the light was no longer visible, and, too late, the searchers realized they should have obtained an accurate bearing on it. During the morning, the general area was searched by ground parties and planes. Finally, about noon, the wreckage was found near the top of Holston Mountain by a pilot." "Seen from above, the pieces of debris were merely dark spots in the snow, sometimes obscured by low clouds and surrounded by steep bluffs and gorges. CAP officials recalled that a twin-engine Navy plane had crashed the year before (1958) in the same area. It had required twelve days of intensive searching to locate it." "Three and a half hours after the pilot's discovery, the first ground party reached the scene. The (DC-3) airliner had slammed directly into the mountain. Only the tail section, which had been thrown further up the slope, was not smashed to bits. The bodies were scattered over an area of several hundred feet." "'Ten persons were reported aboard the plane and we counted ten bodies,' Dr. Robert A. Jackson stated, 'All ten persons died instantly in the wreck.'" "David McBride, reporter for the Kingsport Times- News, was one of the first to arrive at the wreck. He examined each body and the area around it. The snow was undisturbed, and there was no light--not even a flashlight--to be seen." "'I was intrigued by the light,' he wrote, 'but none of the victims could have been responsible for it.'" "Trees and underbrush had been charred by the flash fire that followed the crash, but 'not even a spark or a whiff of smoke was evident' when McBride arrived." "No explanation has ever been found for the light." (See Mysterious Fires and Lights by Vincent H. Gaddis, Dell Publishing Co., New York, N.Y., 1967, pages 96 to 98. See also the Kingsport, Tenn. Times-News for January 9 and 10, 1959, pages 1 and 2.) Welcome to 2003, readers. A new year means a new volume. Which means UFO Roundup is off again on another year of hunting for saucers, aliens, strange mysteries, ancient artifacts and assorted unusual phenomena. Since we're beginning a new year, it's time to repeat the UFO Roundup Pledge. "UFO Roundup will continue to provide attribution whenever possible for each item that appears in the newsletter." "UFO Roundup will also diligently protect the confidentiality of UFO witnesses who are interviewed by our newsletter. No witness's full name or address will be published unless the witness gives UFO Roundup specific and explicit permission in writing to do so." "UFO Roundup pledges to give you complete and comprehensive coverage of the continuing drama of the unidentified flying object." So here's wishing all of our readers a "Happy New Year!" from "the paper that goes home--UFO Roundup." See you next week! UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2003 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post news items from UFO Roundup on their websites or in news groups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue in which the item first appeared. E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com> or use the Sighting Report Form at: http://www.ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Website comments: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> UFOINFO: http://www.ufoinfo.com Official Archives of UFO Roundup, AUFORN Australian UFO Reports and Experiences, UFO + PSI Magazine, plus archives of Filer's Files, Oz Files, UFO News UK and UFO Sightings Italia. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- UFO Roundup is only sent to subscribers. If you wish to unsubscribe or feel you have received the bulletin in error, please write to: <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> With the subject: Unsubscribe UFO Roundup. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 1 FILER'S FILES #01 -- 2003 From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com> Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 13:24:29 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 20:28:51 -0500 Subject: FILER'S FILES #01 -- 2003 FILER'S FILES #1 -- 2003, MUFON Skywatch Investigations George A. Filer, Director Mutual UFO Network Eastern January 1, 2003, Majorstar@aol.com Webmaster: Chuck Warren My new website is at: http://www.georgefiler.com I HOPE YOU HAVE A HEALTHY AND PROSPEROUS NEW YEAR The purpose of these files is to report the UFO eyewitness and photo/video evidence that occurs on a daily basis around the world and in space. Ukraine UFO Air Show crash video biggest UFO story of 2002. Clonaid claims first human clone and ET launched life on Earth, New York small silver orbs moving among Manhattan skyscrapers, Pennsylvania flying triangle, Washington DC fighters chase UFO, Virginia triangular cone close to witnesses, Georgia amazing light seen, Florida strange skywriting, Ohio UFO video and photos, Michigan fireball, Wisconsin triangular pattern of lights, Texas arc light, Nevada test sight sighting and UFO overflight, Oregon daylight black saucer wobbles, Canada spheres spotted, Brazilian abduction photo story questioned, UK bright silver light, and Netherlands a sighting of two flying triangles. UKRAINE UFO AIR SHOW CRASH BIGGEST UFO STORY OF 2002 SKNILOV AERODROME -- A stunning video was shown on Ukrainian ICTV and Russian television showing an unidentified flying object skimming a Ukrainian fighter jet moments before it crashed into a crowd of aviation enthusiasts killing 84 people on July 27, 2002. This is the most tragic air show crash in history. The crashing Su-27 fighter killed 27 children, and wounded 199. The video clearly shows a UFO, that is mentioned by the TV commentator, that passes near the descending Su-27 fighter that killed so many. The UFO is a clearly visible long white cylinder, or cigar shaped, that quickly flew directly behind the Su-27 for 1.5 seconds. The stunning discovery was made due to the detailed analysis of the video tape by the investigation commission and speculation is circulating it could have been a factor in the crash. General Evgeniy Marchuk, Head of the state commission on investigation, analysis of the flight recorder indicated that all systems of the aircraft, including engines, were functioning normally, and Colonel Vladimir Toponar and pilot-inspector, colonel Uriy Egorov safely ejected out of the aircraft. Some other experts conclude that human factor -- bravado of the pilots and insufficient organization by the flight directors of this air show -- caused the tragedy. According to Colonel Vladimir TOPONAR, 'the pilot said, "At a certain moment the SU-27 became uncontrollable." He and his copilot were then forced to bail out, but stayed with the plane until the last possible moment to avoid even greater loss of life. The hypothesis that the UFO could have accidentally influenced the aircraft's stability is not totally excluded? The plane appeared to stall, and the UFO may have tried to save it, or the UFO's momentum may have helped cause the stall as the object crossed planes course. High ranking officials have denied the existence of the UFO despite it being clearly visible on the video. Thanks to Anton Anfalov, Research Specialist for MUFON. See [ http://www.nationalufocenter.com/files/2002/index.php ]Filer's Files UFO Center Views CLONAID COMPANY CLAIMS FIRST HUMAN CLONE AND THAT EXTERRESTRIALS LAUNCHED LIFE ON EARTH HOLLYWOOD, FLORIDA -- Dr. Brigitte Boisselier, chief executive of Clonaid, announced that "A baby which is allegedly the clone of her American 31 year old mother was born a day after Christmas at an undisclosed location and has been nick named Eve. This is the first clone human known and is an exact copy of the mother. Clonaid's leader believes that space aliens launched life on Earth and Darwin was wrong. Dr. Brigitte Boisselier announced the baby is a healthy 7-pound girl, nicknamed Eve, that looks like her mother. Boisselier holds doctorates in analytical and physical chemistry from the University of Houston and the University of Dijon, France.. Scientists doubt the claims and feel it is unlikely that this company could duplicate the mother and develop human clones. Clonaid announced that, "Our scientists are now working on the next generation of clone babies which will include help for parents with AIDS who will be able to have children of their own genetic offspring without taking the risk of passing on the disease to their children. Dr. Boisselier offered no scientific proof of her claims, but said proof - in the form of DNA testing by independent experts - will be available soon. Four other couples are expected to give birth to Clonaid-created clones by early February. The United States has no specific law against human cloning, but the FDA claims its regulations forbid human cloning without prior agency permission. 'Religious leaders have denounced the cloning. Clonaid was founded in the Bahamas in 1997, by Claude Vorilhon, a former French journalist and leader of a sect called the Raelians who cliams to be God's gift to UFO researchers. Vorilhon, who calls himself Rael, claims a space alien visiting him in 1973 revealed that life on Earth was created scientifically through DNA and genetic engineering by an extraterrestrial race whose name, Elohim, is found in the Hebrew Bible and was mistranslated by the word "God". Dr. Boisselier is a Raelian ''bishop'' and Clonaid retains philosophical, but not economic links to the Raelians. The Raelian Movement, is an international religious organization with 55,000 devotees worldwide and operates its own theme park, UFOland, near Montreal. Quebec has granted religious status to the movement. To gain convincing proof that ''Eve'' is a clone, Boisselier said she accepted an offer by former ABC News science editor Michael Guillen to attempt to find proof of the successful cloning. He said, "He has chosen ''world-class, independent experts'' whom he did not identify to draw DNA samples from the mother and the newborn and test them for a match. Boisselier said. "To do the cloning that led to 'Eve,' scientists removed the nucleus from an egg of the woman and merged the altered egg with a skin cell from her. The DNA from the mother's skin cell took over direction of the egg and the baby is very healthy,'' ''The father is infertile. Boisselier claims she had received thousands of requests for cloning from couples. Editor's Note: Let us assume for the sake of argument that the Clonaid's claims are correct. My research has led me to believe that Darwin's Theory of Evolution is in error and that man's uniqueness was created and planned. Darwin indicates we somehow by chance called natural selection we developed from primordial soup to highly intelligent humans. In his day, he was unable to see the intricacies of even a single cell. Under a high power microscope if we look closely we find unbelievable design and function. If we take New York City and look at its roads, communication, transportation, electrical, power, computers, wiring, water systems and surround that with a plastic shell, you have an idea of the complexity each cell. Additionally, that cell can reproduce itself regularly. I suggest this is not done by chance, that even the simplest cell has a design and creator. Our earliest scriptures say "An God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness." Genesis 1-26. This statement clearly indicates interference and creation of mankind perhaps by God's messengers. When we start to look for proof, of these statements the DNA of homo sapiens has large gaps and giant leaps that would not logically occur be evolution. We can find monkeys, apes, and other primates that are obviously greatly inferior to humans. There are over 300 physical traits that set us apart from our cousins, like our ability to stride upright, our helpless infancy, and prolonged childhood making us dependent on our parents. Above all we have dual or divided brains much larger than hominids and apes. Darwin claimed, nature never over-endows a species beyond the demands of everyday existence. Yet our brain is far beyond the demands of everyday existence, and our artistic and mathematical capabilities cannot be explained by natural selection. We must then look logically for evidence of manipulation, intervention or creation. There are also five different human races. Many ancient beliefs such as the American Indian believe they were brought to Earth from another planet. We also have drawings in caves from the earliest cavemen showing various animal drawings in detail with unidentified flying objects above them. [ http://www.nationalufocenter.com/files/2002/index.php ]Filer's Files UFO Center Views I suggest there is more evidence for space visitors than there is in the relatively few fossil remains for evolution. We are entering a new era with new and amazing dicoveries. The radar returns, video and photographs taken almost daily of UFOs indicate something amazing is our skies, perhaps it is the Elohim? NEW YORK SILVER ORBS OVER CITY MANHATTAN -- The witness a professional working in Times Square was getting coffee from a coffee cart at 10:30 AM at the corner of Broadway and 43rd Street, when he glanced east and saw a small silverish orb with two slowly blinking lights on the bottom moving west over 43rd Street directly next to the Grace building about 20 stories up on December 17, 2002, I thought it was some sort of balloon toy or even paper blowing on the wind. The object had an unsteady movement as if being moved around by the wind. However, the object was NOT falling but proceeding horizontally. When it reached 6th Avenue (one block away from my position) it made a 90-degree turn against the wind, without changing it's altitude, and continued south and out of view behind the Conde Nast Tower. It was like some sort of probe or reconnaissance device about two or three feet in circumference. I believe in UFOs, but have never seen anything as bizarre as this in my life. Later the same day, just past sunset, I was walking south on 7th Avenue, and noticed over the mid-thirties there were three more objects like the one I had seen earlier in the day, about as high up. They were quite small in the distance but I could see the same slowly blinking lights on the bottom. The three moved, variously, horizontally, and vertically over the avenue, and then grouped together and moved downwards a few floors in altitude. Then they stopped their downward motion and moved horizontally towards a building on the east side of the street and proceeded, next to it, to move out of sight. I could not make out details on the objects beyond the red or orange lights on the bottom. Thanks to Peter Davenport [ http://www.ufocenter.com/ ]NUFORC WASHINGTON DC UFO CHASED BY F-16 FIGHTERS Kenny Young reports a 38-year old college-educated (6-years) homemaker in the Washington, DC reports a suspected UFO fly over her neighborhood at 10:50 AM, on Monday, December 16, 2002. The witness reports she was inside her home, located at the northeast corner of Washington, DC, when she heard two fighter jets, looking to the south, she was able to discern an unusual object that was as large as a thumbnail at arm's length, or comparable to the size of a full moon. She had lived on Air Force bases for 9-years and knew jet engines sounds, and after hearing the aircraft commotion she thought: "Oh my gosh, are they escorting someone out of the airspace?" The object, she said, was bright silver and reflected the sun. The sky was clear with bright blue skies. The UFO flew at a fast speed and had a 'bouncing' motion, dipping up and down." The witness claims that the object was "way bigger" than an airplane and that it flew from north at a speed comparable to that of a quickly moving fighter jet. She said the duration of the sighting was around five seconds and the object was estimated to have occupied airspace within 3- miles of her vantage point near the Lincoln Memorial. It was flying at an elevation "a bit higher than a helicopter would fly." The object was 'oval-shaped' and there was no sound nor any smoke, The 'bouncing' flight conduct was most noticeable, she said, and likened it to the pulse of a heart monitor. She said the object was clearly of a 'silverish metal' composition and could distinctly observe the sun reflecting off of it. The bottom half of the object was darker and possibly due to shadow. She could discern no structural detail and could not view any apparent rotation of the object and departed from her view as it traveled over a rooftop. Its shape was similar to the top end of speed-stick deodorant. The witness believes that if the jets were looking for the UFO, they had 'just missed it. ' Thanks to Kenny Young ufo@fuse.net and http://www.rense.com/general33/restrict.htm VIRGINIA TRIANGULAR CONE CLOSE TO WITNESSES CHILHOWIE -- Three witnesses report seeing a yellow four sided triangular cone on November 20, 2002, at 2:00 PM. It was about ten feet at the base tapering to a point at the top and was approximately 30 feet in height. There was what appeared to be some sort of instrument group at the base. The object was heading SE at approximately 15 mph but did not appear to be a balloon. It maintained constant altitude and speed after passing us at distance of about 150 feet and altitude of 75 feet. Our location was a ridge top at 2600 feet in the mountainson a bright sunny day with gusty winds from the west. The object traveled four miles and suddenly went down into the woodlands. This vehicle was not noticeably effected by the wind changes. Thanks to Peter Davenport [ http://www.ufocenter.com/ ]NUFORC GEORGIA AMAZING LIGHT SEEN Suwanee -- It all happened less than a second at 7 PM. I still am asking myself questions about what happened on December 15, 2002, I am for sure that what ever I saw didn't come from this Earth. The main reason I am writing this is to inform people that there is other life beyond our capability of grasping. I was fascinated by what I saw. I could hardly tell exactly what it was, but it was very close and was a highly concentrated light. The most purest white light I've ever seen without a tint of any other color. It was the most pure light ever, and it is hard to explain in words but it didn't give light off. It was LIGHT ITS SELF, and it didn't streak any light behind it like a comet or any other things like that. Thanks to Tom Sheets MUFONGA state director. FLORIDA SKY WRITING CHEMTRAILS PUNTA GORDA -- The witness and her boyfriend were sitting up late on December 20, 2002, and noticed a really weird object which I thought was a tower for a second at 3:45 AM. We watched this object move from left to right and it looked like it was gliding not flying. We both first thought that it was a helicopter, but then it started to move away and come back in a motion that we knew was not a regular aircraft. My boyfriend is skeptic about it. I watched the object for 3 hours and finally as the daylight came this object slowly went away. I watched it move farther and farther with a small trail of light behind it. As daylight came I made him look over to show him it was not a tower and that there is no way possible for it to have been a really bright star. I know what I saw! BOCA RATON -- Marilyn Ruben writes, "Our family was in sunny Florida for Christmas week. On Saturday, December 21 at 12:40 PM, we had just exited I-95 about a mile inland from the Atlantic Ocean and noticed a large "Smiley Face" being drawn in the southern sky with a chem trail. I told my daughter to begin videotaping. Although we could not see the actual aircraft making the chem trail drawing, it drew a left eye, a right eye, a mouth and then a face. The chem trail was a pale bluish color with a hint of green, making it clearly distinguishable from nearby puffs of white cumulus clouds. Later, we filmed as the unseen aircraft then printed letters in the cloudy sky forming the words "LOVES US." On Sunday, December 22, at 3:40 PM, the unseen aircraft again started Sky Writing by drawing a large "Smiley Face" followed by printing "ESUS U." I videotaped this event, also. There were more but hidden by clouds. Using a digital zoom of 700x, I was able to videotape a partial outline of the aircraft writing the chem trail words. The aircraft was able to turn the chem trail "on" and "off" at will. The actual chem trail itself appeared to be a double trail of very tight donut loops with a space in between. This Sky Writing occurred again on Thursday, December 26, during mid-afternoon over the Atlantic Ocean. Large square letters were being drawn saying "THANK GOD JESUS LOVES U." While these messages are on the religious side, I find it hard to believe that the US Military would write religious messages in the sky, or that a religious organization would pay for such a service (if even available or affordable) and then not publicize it on the TV or Radio. We have not seen or heard anything in the media. Does anyone know what this is all about? See http://www.abduct.com. for photos. Thanks to Marilyn Ruben. OHIO UFO VIDEO AND PHOTOS PORTSMOUTH --A drug counselor reports taking film of a UFO over his hometown. I used to travel all over the US playing drums in show bands for 6 years. I was taking photos of chemtrails and hoping to get a jet spewing the chemicals, when I saw a silvery object around noon on November 20th. It was very small to the naked eye and difficult to locate in the viewfinder. I continued shooting chemtrails and assumed I captured a jet, but there was no trail behind the silver object. I went outside at around 3 PM again hoping to see more chemtrails and heard a fast jet and that is what made me look up. I thought "Great, a jet." Again I saw this silvery object with no trails and what seemed to be moving slower. It was at high altitude and moving fast in an arc. The space station moves slow in comparison to this object. It appeared to move slower than a jet. I video taped it until I lost it. They were both in the east sky moving southeast. I experienced a strange feeling after viewing the video. It wasn't until a day later I realized I may have had two takes of two UFOs. I showed to my friends who are UFO buffs. They didn't think it was a jet. Thanks to Dave Crisp, http://community- 1.webtv.net/crispsongs/CRISPMUSICNET See [ http://www.nationalufocenter.com/files/2002/index.php ]Filer's Files UFO Center Views FOSTORIA -- George Ritter has taken a series of photos near his home of UFOs passing over south and east of Toledo. The photos show various shaped objects. Most are discs or cylinder shaped UFOs. Both sets of photos can be seen at [ http://www.nationalufocenter.com/files/2002/index.php ]Filer's Files UFO Center Views TEXAS FREEWAY ARC LIGHT EL PASO -- My friend and I were on our way to work at 5 AM, on the Patriot Freeway heading south on December 14, 2002, I noticed a light like a star and brought it to my friends attention who was driving. It began to shimmer like when you see lights through glass when it rains. The light was obviously moving and getting brighter. I thought it might be a police helicopter but it began to dim and rise in an arc. Within two minutes it was completely gone. I know this was an actual object but in flight it did not move (arc) like any aircraft I have ever seen. Incidentally, my wife and two of my daughters saw something very similar last summer. HOUSTON -- I was out in my backyard at 9:15 PM, on a clear night on December 13, 2002. We just moved to this new subdivision, I have a wonderful view of the sky. From behind me I heard the roar of a jet so I turned to watch it. As I was watching it, a V shaped set of five lights came into view behind and under the plane. The UFO passed the airplane and disappeared from view within seconds. I then saw another plane approaching from the west at a high rate of speed to the vicinity of where I last saw the UFO. The plane circled the area for about five minutes, then left. Thanks to Peter Davenport [ http://www.ufocenter.com/ ]NUFORC MICHIGAN FIREBALL LONGMONT -- I spotted a large orange/yellow fireball streaking across the southern sky at 6:35 PM, on December 10, 2002. It was very bright with a long tail, traveling downward at a slight 10- 15 degree angle for five seconds before breaking/fizzing out. Then outside Caf=E9 Luna, I saw a very bright iridescent light accelerating up for about three seconds at a 45 degree angle. I would have thought it was a BIG shooting star, if it weren't for the upward motion. Thanks to Peter Davenport [ http://www.ufocenter.com/ ]NUFORC NEVADA TEST SITE UFO The sighting Dr. Leir describes is a match of the sighting at an atomic bomb test in July 1952 at the Nevada Test Site. It was visible as a star like object a little above the horizon for quite sometime in predawn sky before the test. When the bomb exploded it was daylight and this object moved overhead and ejected several small objects that arranged themselves in a ring around the larger pale globe. Then they vanished. I was a Specialist First Class and a Colonel was standing next to me. He observed this event through large field glasses. He had me describe what I saw and said he could see no more detail through the glasses. He said. It was very far away. I asked him what he thought it was. He said, " Have you ever heard of flying saucers?" Thanks to Philip Giles NEVADA BORDER -- At 5:45 AM, the witnesses we were driving due west on I-80 on December 13, 2002. The witness states, "I was looking at a bright light almost due west. I told my friend, "Hey, look how bright Venus is there" My friend said, "That's a plane with its landing lights on." It continued getting bigger, brighter, and closer and flew directly overhead. I could actually make out individual lights on the front of the object, there were many, emitting bright light, with a touch of blue. The individual lights were round in shape, evenly spaced, on the front of what looked like a delta-wing object. It was extremely large, the exact shape and dimensions of it were tough to see due to the brightness of the lights. It wasn't like any aircraft I had ever seen. It looked like the description of the Phoenix lights, that's the closest description I have. Thanks to Peter Davenport [ http://www.ufocenter.com/ ]NUFORC CALIFORNIA DISC DOWNEY -- The witness was taking her dogs for a walk on November 19, 2002, about 4 AM, and saw two strange lights in the sky, one to the east and one to the west. Eileen writes, "I could not get home fast enough, to get my video camera and got some great video tape of them." My camcorder has a great zoom, and they are very clear. They had hundreds of colored lights, pulsating and flashing. I also took some stills with my camera, not as good as the video. The zoom is not as good. I need to get the video put on a disc, so I can print the pictures. I am sending you a picture, I took and have shown them to my friend, and she is amazed. Thanks to Eileen Aherne Editor's Note: The film looks like the moon, but with no detail. OREGON DAYLIGHT BLACK SAUCER WOBBLES PORTLAND -- On December 22, 2002, a black saucer was seen wobbling similar to a coin spinning slowly on a desk, at 2:20 PM. The saucer moved in a horizontal orientation, and had one wobble a second. The wobble allowed a clear disc shape to be seen, then flat and not any noticeable height dimension to it. The UFO gained altitude slowly from about a 30 degree angle off of the horizon against an overcast sky. It moved to my left while rising until it reached the lower level of clouds, then it moved to the right and eventually stopped moving or gaining altitude at about 65 degree angle from the horizon. Eventually, the clouds covered it. Also, there were no lights or any other markings visible on the craft which seemed about a mile away. To my eye, at that distance, it looked about the same size as a street sign from 60 yards away. No helicopter or jet sounds were heard. Thanks to Peter Davenport [ http://www.ufocenter.com/ ]NUFORC CANADA SPHERES SPOTTED VICTORIA TO VANCOUVER, BC -- Brian Vike reports that on Saturday, December 21, 2002, I was on the ferry going to Victoria from Vancouver. At 9:20 AM, I went out on deck and saw a blue sky with lots of clouds that were moving quite fast because of the cold wind. I saw a white sphere shaped slow moving object approaching a cloud. It seemed to float but I know it wasn't a balloon. It was very white and it didn't look very big. I watched it for ten seconds flying northwest and going into a cloud. I waited for it to reappear after the wind moved the small cloud, but I never saw it again. It either moved with the cloud or disappeared. It was moving in the direction until it was covered in the cloud, then I don't know what happened to it. The length of the was 10 to 15 seconds. BABINE LAKE -- Brian Vike reports I had a telephone call from a nice fellow who reported an incident at a logging camp across the lake from Granisle, BC . He and three other coworkers were logging when one of the workers gave out a loud cry, "Look, at that bright light coming up from behind the trees. A large glowing golden/orangish disk shaped object with a large halo of white around the craft rose up a half kilometer away stopped and hovered. The object moved away from their location after ten seconds, heading north. They did lose sight of the craft quickly, but still could see the bright light for five minutes. Thanks to Brian Vike - HBCC UFO Research Editor: Canadian Communicator hbccufo@telus.net BRAZIL ABDUCTION QUESTIONABLE Last week we reviewed a story from the Jeff Rense web site showing remarkable photos of an alleged abduction. A. J. Gevaerd, Editor, Brazilian UFO Magazine writes, "Please be informed that the story of a man abducted in Brazil, with dramatic photos of the scenario, is a campaign to promote overseas the biggest UFO hoaxer of all times in Brazil, Urandir Fernandes de Oliveira, who has actually created a sect of fanatics around him, composed of people who blindly believe in his alleged ET contacts and healing powers, none of them ever confirmed by anyone." Urandir is largely rejected by 99% of the Brazilian UFO Community, who know he is a hoaxer. This story is NOT to be taken seriously, as no responsible UFO researcher has been allowed to scrutinize the scenario and the alleged case. Urandir was interviewed by Jeff Rense on December 12, assisted by his fellow Felipe Castelo Branco. Serious people in the USA were taken in by his story. We have succeeded in preventing that thousands of Brazilians being cheated by Urandir and now he is trying the USA. Serious UFO researchers cannot let it happen. Thanks to A. J. Gevaerd, gevaerd@ufo.com.br Editor, Brazilian UFO Magazine. BrazilianNational Director, Mutual UFO Network, Director, International UFO Congress. UNITED KINGDOM BRIGHT SILVER LIGHT LEEDS -- The witness reports seeing four lights changing directions and formations, and then leaving. There were four orange balls of light flying in a line formation on December 11, 2002, for a few seconds. Then the formation changed to a square shape at 8:56 PM. As it changed formation it flew towards me for a few seconds then changed direction again and moved back into the previous formation and then faded into the distance. Although I never believed in that sort of thing I was shocked. LONDON CHEMTRAILS -- The witness reports seeing planes spraying between 6 AM and 8 AM during November and December 2002. The witness lives in Hampton in the Southwest of London near Hampton Court Palace and below one of the take off paths for Heathrow airport. He reports these chemtrails form way above the flight paths of the civilian aircraft in a clear blue sky. http://www.thisistherealtruth.net/misc/chemtrails_over_hampton.h tm NETHERLANDS A SIGHTING OF TWO TRIANGLE SHAPED UFO's NAARDEN -- It was a very clear night on December 12, 2002, and the witness was just getting on his bike in the parking lot after hockey training at 9:05 PM. He writes, "Suddenly I saw two triangular shapes right above me, they could be stealth fighters, but they were going way too fast and I didn't hear them." They were flying next to each other and the one came closer to the other and they crossed each other and then they started flying next to each other again until we lost them out of sight. The whole experience took about twenty seconds. Thanks to Peter Davenport [ http://www.ufocenter.com/ ]NUFORC Filer's Files was started on January 1, 1997, and has continued each week for six years without outside finacial support. You can support the production of these files by shopping on line at 100 top stores on my websites. YOU'RE A PREFERRED CUSTOMER AT 100 TOP STORES ONLINE MANY ARE OFFERING BIG DISCOUNTS! You can shop on line in a hundred different stores such as Ashlane Gift Baskets, Books, Brooks Brothers, Diamonds, Disney, and Sweaters from Elizabeth's by Liz Claiborne, Fragrances, Hallmark cards and flowers, Jewelry, Spiegel, Customatix Shoes, Toy Chest, and Wine.Com. For your Health and Nutrition Store there are unbelievable products to feel better, and healthier again. There is a store for your every special need, and you qualify as a preferred customer by reading these files, and you usually will qualify for special discounts. Register as a Preferred Customer and pick the store of your choice. [ http://www.filer.unfranchise.com/ ]www.filer.unfranchise.com Use search to find Isotonix OPC-3 to greatly improve your health and feel much better. MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative reports subscribe to the MUFON JOURNAL. A MUFON membership includes the Journal and costs only $35.00 per year. To join MUFON or to report a UFO go to http://www.mufon.com/. To ask questions contact MUFONHQ@aol.com or HQ@mufon.com. Mention that I recommended you for membership. Filer's Files is copyrighted 2002 by George A. Filer, all rights reserved. Readers may post the complete files on their Web Sites if they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue that the item appeared. These reports and comments are not necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON viewpoint. Send your letters to Majorstar@aol.com. Sending mail automatically grants permission for us to publish and use your name. Please state if you wish to keep your name, address, or story confidential. CAUTION, MOST OF THESE ARE INITIAL REPORTS AND REQUIRE FURTHER INVESTIGATION. Happy New Year Warmest Regards, George A. Filer http://www.georgefiler.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 1 Re: Corso - Aldrich From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 20:43:5 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 20:40:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Aldrich >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 10:40:41 -0800 >Subject: Re: Corso >>From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 8:39:50 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Corso >>>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 13:51:34 -0800 >>>Subject: Re: Corso >>>>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> >>>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>>Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 00:44:48 EST >>>>Subject: Re: Corso Greetings List, I will say that Corso always comes back again and again each time as I mentioned before set back to zero again just like some video game. This thing runs in cycles over and over again the evidence that Corso is a liar comes out, everything goes away for some months, then we are told that there is no such evidence and everything starts up again from zero as if nothing was ever posted on this before. >><snip> >>>>>Please continue your research on Col. Corso and ignore the >>>>>negative comments by Robert and Jerry. They're good fellows but >>>>>like so many of their peers, they've disregarded the positive >>>>>evidence that supports Col. Corso's veracity. More and more evidence comes into focus which indicates that Corso's lack of veracity. See Kevin Randle's post on Kaufmann and Corso. >>>>So what is "negative" about the truth? >>>>Corso did in fact make the claim about the time machine to the >>>>reporter. >>>Yes, he certainly did but does that automatically make it a lie? >>>He said the same thing on Art Bell but the VSA indicates he was >>>telling the truth. Now, he may have been mistaken and what he >>>thought was a time machine was in fact something else, but he >>>was telling the truth as he saw it. No, the VSA, as even advocates admit, does not tell if someone is lying. http://Diogenesgroup.com It detect stress in someone's voice. Now I received a long E- mail from the president of this company a long time ago, also, cc-ed to dozen of other prominent people about how great this gadget was and that it could indeed take voice off a radio or TV and do a proper analysis, etc., etc. However, if you read carefully at the site you will find for this item to work as advertised that it the subject must be in some kind of jeopardy, because it works on the "fight or flight" reaction of the body. Also, there has to be some kind of calibration of the device. If you carefully read the report on the VSD test done on Corso at http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2000/aug/m16-020.shtml you will find that if a group of guys are telling stories over beers it can't be analyzed with any effectiveness. Well, what do we have here, "Mad Dawg" Art "Pit Bull" Bell, with a known reputation for tearing his "guests" to shreds before the startled audience's ears and Colonel Dr. John Alexander. I have e-mail Alexander back and forth on Corso, Alexander is another one who did not "read" Corso's book. He did have a long list of questions for "Phil," but never had a chance to ask all of them before Corso died. So what do we have? Buds, John and Phil appearing in the very friendly Art Bell show, hardly any stress or jeopardy in this situation, and, in fact, it is just like a bunch of guys talking over beers. Is it any wonder that stress can't be detected in the voices? >>>>We know from Corso's military record that what he >>>>claimed in the book was not in fact correct. >>>Which part? The Col.-Light Col issue is unresolved but aside >>>from that, what part of his military record do you think he lied >>>about. Ah, the full Colonel - Light Col. issue is now unresolved. Evade, duck and avoid the argument. There is nothing to indicate Corso was ever a Colonel. Several place he was careful to identify himself as Lt. Col. testimony before Congress. Other places where it was probably that people would not be interested in checking he is less careful, his book, his affidavit. What part of his military record did he lied about? How about combat in North Africa? http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/1997/aug/m30-018.shtml How about Corso's claim to be a member of the National Security Council. Stan Friedman had this to say: Corso's connection with the NSC wasn't classified. The NSC is a Statutory organization.. Here is the text which I had faxed to Gersten, Birnes, Lindemann, The Roswell Museum etc.: "This is in response to your inquiry of June 2. According to the information found in our files, Col. Philip J. Corso was not a member of the National Security Council or its ancillary agency, the Operations Coordinating Board, during the Eisenhower Administration. Mr. Corso served on the staff of the Psychological Strategy Board and its successor, the Operations Coordinating Board, from August 1953 to September 1956. He served on a number of OCB working groups including the POW Working group. We have not located any evidence that he ever attended an actual NSC meeting........." Herbert L. Pankratz Archivist, Eisenhower Library. June 5.1998 Again he was not head of the Army R&D Foreign Technology for two years which he claimed independently of the book in an interview. So, one can't blame this on Birnes. In fact he wasn't assigned to Foreign Technology for two years either. >>>Please be specific and use citations. Did he lie about >>>being in command of a nuclear facility. He was not in command of a nuclear facility, he was in command of a nuclear capable battalion, a big difference. >>>Does the military give >>>nuclear commands such as this to liars and psychopaths? Unfortunately, sometimes it does give such to liars! Psychopaths? Who said this? I didn't, Robert didn't. Little exggeration for effect, eh? Do some in the military attain rank and position which they are unqualified for, of course. I previous covered this. "In researching for Project 1947 I checked out General Ennis Whitehead's personal papers. Whitehead after the war was commander of Far East Air Force, and later the Air Defense Command. He, Statemeyer and Chidlaw seemed important to look at for research into the early days of UFO history. One of Whitehead's letters to Spaatz listed 30 plus general that he does not want in combat command positions in the Far East Air Force. "He lists his evaluations of the problems with each general in two sentences. It's eye opening. Lazy, not proficient technically, no longer able to keep up, too worried about the big picture can't focus on his area, should be reduced back to colonel, etc. were just some of the Whitehead's evaluations of subordinate general officers." Further, the sorry story of the Sgt York Air Defense System is a sad tale from Corso's own branch showing corruptions, fraud and lying. After billions were spent the system was junked, many of its "shot downs" never happened in the real world but were computer models of what would happen if aircraft bigger than the target drones were used. One Colonel (not Light Colonel was found to spent thousand on temporary duty trips not for work on the project, but to travel to his farm to work there. The military reflects society, there are injusticies and corrupt practices in both. >>>>Corso claimed that >>>>Birnes stroked the book and there were some inaccuracies in the >>>>book that he couldn't correct do to some contractual obligation >>>>he was under. Birnes claimed that the book is a faithful >>>>reproduction of every word that fell out of Corso's mouth, >>>>further that Birnes had it all on tape. Further that Corso had >>>>read the manuscript and galley proofs of the book a number of >>>>times and had approved what was written in the book. Birnes had >>>>all of the material on tape for 3 (thats right three) Corso >>>>books. I notice that Birnes has been in no hurry to do the other >>>>two books. Yes, and Corso and Barnes were interviewed together by Linderman. No problems there. Corso said nothing about things in the book being wrong. >>>Other books are not in the works as far as I know; but I don't >>>think Birnes is involved any longer. >>>Corso said there were numerous mistakes but he didn't blame >>>Birnes. He did much of the story from memory and of course there >>>will be some mistakes. >>>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/2271/corso.html >>>>So the bottom line still is "Corso and time machine(s) theories >>>>are not uncommon so to speak." >>>I don't know exactly what this sentence means but yes Col. Corso >>>alluded to time machines. >>Enough of this junk! >Jan, >Robert and I were having a polite discussion and you've >intruded. "Enough of this junk!" is a rude remark and an insult. >And I certainly challenge your assertion that my efforts are >"junk". Mike Kemp's VSA is a professional research report that I >paid for with good ol' US greenbacks and not some flea market >castaway as you insinuate. Ed, Well, I don't think you got your money's worth. Nor does it trump documented proof of Corso's lying. How about another one? His confrontation with a CIA official who wasn't even in Washington at the time in a building not built at the time. How many of these do we need? If you and Robert want to have a private discussion on Corso, be my guest, however, this is an open forum in case you had noticed. One had better expect to get challenged here. I notice that Mike Kemp's more detailed report never appeared! >I'll answer your post, but unless I see some mutual respect, >it's the last response you'll get from me. Don't do me any favors. You have never had any respect for me. Have constant denigrating my background and saying I don't understand how intelligence works or how things are done on this level. I am sorry but this guy was not Riley Ace of Spies, just a light colonel with a big mouth. >>Is there a giant space-based anti-ET weapons system which is >>keeping the evil ET at bay the result of efforts unknown to him >>at the time >I've no answer to that question nor do you; this holds true for >anyone else on the List. We have absolutely no way of knowing >what the US arsenal holds. These are black projects. How much do >you know about the TR3-b? No way as easy to hide as big a construction project that would take hundreds of space craft and make Space Station Freedom look like peanuts. >>by the Savior of Mankind, Colonel General Corso? >That's a cheap shot. Yes, he was proud of what he thought he had >accomplished and since I think he did what he says he did, I >have to agree and admire his courage and abilities. A cheap shot, eh? Maybe you haven't read Corso's book, either! If you turn to page 273 in The Book, the Savior speaks: "In fact, the U. S. military has better, more accurate, and more powerful weapons for killing UFOs than were deployed in the movie "Independence Day." "We can knock these guys down tomorrow with high-energy lasers and directed particle-beam weapons that come right out of a "Star Wars" movie. And these aren't fiction, they're fact. If you want to know move, pay a visit to the U. S. Army Space Command Website on the Internet. The missile-launched HELs are the pride of our planetary defense system and a direct result of President Reagan's courage in pushing for the Strategic Defense Initiative when everyone said it wouldn't work. And that SDI was a direct result of the work General Trudeau and I did at Army R&D in 1962. "Sometimes things just work the way they're supposed to. Sometimes, once in a very long while, you get the chance to save your country, your planet, and even your species at the same time....." if you "save your country, your planet, and even your species at the same time," you are the Savior of Mankind by definition. Cheap shot, indeed! I didn't say it, Corso did! >>Answer that or go away! >Who put you in charge of this List? These are bully tactics and >not becoming. They make you seem ignorant and pushy. I am pushy, I want people to close with the main points of Corso. I want the evasion, the obfuscation, and the constant replowing of old ground to stop. >>And the Non-disclosure project why are you against a space based >>defense which according to Corso, one of the witnesses in your >>witness list, already exists and is doing a handy job of keeping >>the evil ET away? >I'm not part of the "(Non) {how cute}-Disclosure project" and >have never been. I support their efforts. I also know they're >not perfect. They published my article because they thought it >was the correct interpretation of the facts. >>Answer that or go away! Well, this was addressed to them, not you. However, they have some answering to do! Apparently, they can have it all ways. You think Non-Disclosure is cute. I think it is ashame! I think the mixing of turkeys with good witnesses is purposeful and silly other political aim and other, shall we say, unconventional topics, is calculated to make ufology look bad. Why I don't know, but if there were ever disinformation agents it's them, Major Aho, Kehoe, and Otis T. Carr reincarnated again. (Notice the similarity to Major Donald E. Keyhoe.) We have seen this before. >This is so rude! Well, you know what I think is rude? This feigned ignorance of anything posted before concerning problems with Corso records or book! >>I can't believe at this point we are still debating over Corso's >>military record which is available for all to see. >>http://www.cufon.org/ >As far as I know we're not debating his military record. and I >agree; everyone should visit your site and see for themselves >Col.Corso's military record which indicates he is who he says he >is. Which are combat veteran of North Africa, head of Foreign Technology for two years, and Colonel in the USAR. >>His FBI record is also there. >>http://www.cufon.org/special/corsofbi.pdf >>His military records indicate that he constantly stretched the >>truth in his book. >Or were these honest mistakes? Could you be more specific. See above. >>His FBI record indicate that he engaged in >>rather juvenile activities, but more seriously that he had >>accused people of disloyal activity which the FBI had to check >>and found wanting. >I'll be glad to discuss this with you but first you have to >prove to me that you've carefully read my rebuttal to Larry >Bryant's slanderous remarks. >http://www.caus.org/membercomments/mc062900.shtml >I've tried to get Bryant to discuss our different takes on this >subject, but so far he hasn't bothered to reply. I have read your article. Nothing there to discuss. All your demands of Larry are met in the files. They speak for themselves. >>Also, read Corso's book and note the special relationship he had >>with Hoover. Then look what Hoover said about him in his FBI >>file. >And we should believe Hoover? You don't seem to get it. There is no special relationship here. Corso could have left the FBI out altogether, but he has to make up this special relationship with Hoover and the Bureau. >>Ed, I may not know a liar every time I see and hear one, but I >>know one thing for sure. Corso was a liar, his book was a lie >>and his contributions to Ufology have been lies, confusion and >>stupidity. Not one positive thing! >I think you need to take a deep breath; then answer in a calm >and deliberate manner. Bully boys are not in control of this >List. I think it is well past time for you to end your popping up several months after someone has posted Corso's sorry record and then starting all over again with these types of statement that there is nothing wrong with his relating of his military record in his book or that he never lied based on some VSD test. I think it is well past time to put this old horse where it belongs - out to pasture. Jan Aldrich Project 1947 http://www.project1947.com/ P. O. Box 391 Canterbury, CT 06331 (860) 546-9135
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 1 Request for Declassification Review/Release - From: Larry W. Bryant <evelarr@msn.com> Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 22:00:37 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 20:43:45 -0500 Subject: Request for Declassification Review/Release - To: <president@whitehouse.gov> Subject: Request for Declassification Review/Release of a NARA-housed (UFO-related?) Doc TO: Archivist of the United States U. S. National Archives and Records Administration ATTN: Records-declassification Authority -- FOIA 8601 Adelphi Road College Park, MD 20740-6001 FROM: Larry W. Bryant 3518 Martha Custis Drive Alexandria, VA 22302 DATE: January 1, 2003 In the interest of determining the extent to which UFO-related references and references pertaining to the supersecret organization called Operation Majestic-Twelve are contained in the enclosed "TOP SECRET" NARA-housed memorandum of July 22,1949, I hereby request that your staff subject this censored OSD memorandum to prompt, comprehensive declassification review/release. I of course understand that your review probably will entail submission of this two-page document to officials within the following U. S. agencies: Department of Defense, National Security Council, Department of State, and Central Intelligence Agency. Accordingly, please keep me regularly informed of the progress of your coordination with those agencies during the course of your fulfillment of this request under terms of the U. S. Freedom of Information Act and the current presidential executive order governing mandatory declassification review/release. Please note that I'm snail-mailing to you a signed printout of this e-formatted letter. LARRY W. BRYANT Director, Washington, D.C., Office of Citizens Against UFO Secrecy Copies furnished to: Mark S. Zaid, Esq. (Washington, D.C.) Chairman, U. S. Senate Committee on Intelligence Peter Robbins, Editor-in-Chief of the website of http://www.ufocity.com Chairman, Subcommittee on Government Information, Management, and Technology - U. S. House of Representatives [LWB analysis for posting upon the Internet website of UFOcity.com: The memorandum in question, which is addressed to the executive secretary of the National Security Council from a USAF general in the Office of the Secretary of Defense, constitutes one of several such potential smoking-gun documents that, according to its discoverers (the father-son team of Robert Wood and Ryan Wood), might lead us to further UFOlogical revelations on the magnitude of Roswell, Majestic-12, and beyond -- were we to gain declassification of the censored portions. The memo's subject pertains to a (1949?) NSC meeting dealing with "Recommendations of Dulles Survey Group Report that there be established an Operations Division, with its separate administration within CIA." From the typographical pattern of the memo's deleted passages, we (for the time being) can speculate that they refer to some special project or clandestine organizational entity. For example, the second paragraph states: ". . . the representatives of the Secretaries of State and Defense hereby confirm their recommendation that administrative support of _______________operations of CIA should be separate." And the closing paragraph concludes: "The representatives [of State and Defense] believe there now is sufficient overstaffing in the administrative services of the Central Intelligence Agency to permit the separation of the administrative support of _______________activities without any substantial increase at present in the allocation of personnel or funds for this purpose." Will the NARA records-tweakers once again fall upon their Sword of Inordinate Processing Delay, or will they finally realize that the public's right-to-know takes precedence over their bureaucratic status quo? Stay tuned.]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 2 Alien-ated Youth From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 21:14:09 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 21:14:09 -0500 Subject: Alien-ated Youth Source: Houston Press http://houstonpress.com/issues/2002-12-19/feature.html/1/index.html Alien-ated Youth They're the next step in human evolution. But they're just like everybody else. By Dylan Otto Krider At first glance, they look like perfectly ordinary first-graders scribbling feverishly on the blackboard, but there is something striking about the boy's deep blue eyes that suggests a maturity well beyond his years. Jake's in advanced classes and already reading at a third-grade level. Jan is the quiet one, but has a presence that immediately draws attention. Her predilection is toward art, though at the moment she is choosing to write math equations on the board, erasing them as soon as she's completed each of her computations. Jake's mother is a teacher at this Baytown-area school, and worries that he may be ostracized by his peers if word ever gets out about his special gifts. "He questions everything because he wants to know," she says as her son draws a picture of a lollipop tree. "The questions he asks are not even age- appropriate." These children tend to know things without ever being taught or told. Jake's companion Jan "can use a compound bow very well," says the girl's grandmother, Jill Spence. "She can shoot a BB gun; she goes fishing." It just came naturally to her, Spence says. She can't explain it. They go by many names, such as Star Kids, Indigos or Crystalline Children. Whatever they're called, believers say this group of prodigies started appearing about 30 years ago and may now make up as much as 90 percent of the population under ten. They also exhibit strange side effects, like a higher resistance to pollutants but an increased sensitivity to sugar and food additives. These are babies born with an inherent knowledge of art, language and spirituality, possessing an impressive wealth of wisdom. Some will even go so far as to say these kids are not only prime candidates for the gifted and talented program, but the next step in human evolution. Parents and those who study these children have been asking themselves why here? Why now? Theories about their origins range from spirits entering from other planes and dimensions to chosen ones delivered from heaven. Some even suggest aliens have been abducting and manipulating the DNA of these children and their parents to prepare us for when they make their presence known. The one thing all these groups do agree on is that the kids are out there, and they're coming to teach us a lesson. The term Indigo Child was coined 17 years ago by Nancy Ann Tappe, a parapsychologist who developed a system for classifying people's personalities according to the hue of their auras, described in her 1982 book, Understanding Your Life Through Colors. According to her, auras have been entering and exiting Earth throughout history. For example, aura colors such as fuchsia and magenta disappeared from the gene pool 100 years ago (though she was recently shocked to find a fuchsia living in Palm Springs). It stood to reason that a new life color was about to make an appearance. Tappe was unable to find the new color scheme until a baby was born with a heart murmur at a children's hospital in San Diego whom she recognized as being dark blue. The child died six weeks later, but more and more indigo-colored personalities began to appear in the '80s, and their numbers were clearly rising. But it was the 1999 book The Indigo Children, by Lee Carroll and Jan Tober, that popularized the idea of the next generation. Carroll was an economics major who ran a technical audio business for 30 years until a visit to a psychic prompted a New Age midlife crisis. He found religion and started traveling around the world giving "self-help" seminars. Accompanying him was Tober, a practitioner of metaphysics and hands-on healing as well as a jazz singer who had toured with Benny Goodman and Fred Astaire. The genesis of the book came when they began noticing similar accounts of strange behavior in children from teachers, counselors and psychologists who attended their seminars. As they began to look into these occurrences, they found kids were indeed being born with an "unusual set of psychological attributes" and displaying "a pattern of behavior generally undocumented before." Using a collection of essays and interviews from experts in the field -- mostly counselors working in such New Age areas as Angel Therapy and alternative medicines -- the book focuses on raising an Indigo Child. Some of the main attributes they describe are a sense of "deserving to be here" and "knowing who they are," difficulty with authority, a dislike of activities that don't require creative thought and a feeling of royalty (and acting like it). The peculiarities of Jake and Jan (their families asked that their real names not be used) were apparent from an early age. As a toddler, Jan sometimes spoke using her own language. Instead of "cookie," she would say "cookah" and refused to call a sandwich anything but a "phonic." Odder still, she didn't begin speaking until she was three years old. For Jake's part, he had trouble grasping the concept that he was not in charge. "He has to be told," Jake's mother says. "He doesn't think he needs permission." Spence noticed a similar idiosyncrasy in her granddaughter. "You have to coax her to do her homework," she says. As proof of Jan's exceptional talent, her grandmother pulls out an example of her artwork, a crayon drawing of a rainbow, stick family and M-shaped birds flying in the sky. "Most all of her pictures are rainbows," Spence says, noticing a theme running throughout her work. She feels that must have something to do with Jan's ability to see auras. She also points out the plant Jan drew with watermelons, pears and other fruit growing on it. "God told her that was how plants were going to grow." Jan doesn't quite agree. "I just made it up," she says. Like many Indigos, she's very shy about discussing her abilities. Once she has drawn for a few minutes, Jan feels comfortable enough to talk. She admits she feels she's different "when Satan tries to come in my head." Most of the time, she says, Satan tries to come in at night. (Indigos often receive their visions through dreams.) Jan shrugs when asked what sorts of information she receives, and continues to draw. She says she knows she's an Indigo because "my mother told me." Jake found out he was an Indigo when his mother read a book on the subject. His mother's psychic recently told him he might even be higher than that, something called a Crystalline Child. "I think she was telling me so I could understand him better," she says. What he needs to do in this world, she says, is to learn to be human. "Once he can conquer that, then he can teach and he can heal, and that's the struggle." The hardest part about raising an Indigo, she says, is not getting the chance to be parents. She starts to recount one epiphany she had when her son realized some insects he caught had a mother and father. "You said that," Jake objects. "You're the one who said it had a mother and father." "I wasn't in your classroom," his mother says. "You told me." "He's always talking about God," Jake's mother continues. "But it's not questioning -- he knows." Yet she had never taken him to church. What's more, he remembers his past lives. "He's always talking about his other mother, his other fathers and siblings, and he'll tell you how they died," Jake's mother says. Just the other day, Jake said he didn't want to hurt her feelings, but that his other mother was prettier. Jake runs into the school bathroom, slams and locks the door. "I'm not making fun of you," his mother calls after him. If she doesn't talk about him, she explains through the door using her most soothing voice, "there won't be other people who understand who you are, and who Jan is, and what it's like to try and help." After a few moments, she says that Jake probably feels she's betrayed his trust, since he doesn't want other people knowing about his gifts. "His teacher can't teach him. His speech teacher can't teach him. His occupational therapist can't teach him." Jackie Brahm, a local "medical intuitive" who counsels Indigos, says it's not uncommon for their parents to have no control over them. Because they're so advanced, the kids don't feel like they have to obey. According to Brahm, this is why many Indigos get misdiagnosed as having ADD or ADHD. "They don't know how to process all the energy that's coming through, so they overload and react fairly badly to it." Through her practice, Brahm has been able to hone her abilities for spotting these special children, and says she's been seeing an increasing number of them in public places. She found one three-year-old Indigo recently at a museum, critiquing one of the paintings on the wall. When the mother asked her how she could know, the girl explained that she used to be a "master." But when the mother asked if she would like to take up painting and demonstrate some of the abilities she learned in a past life, the girl thrust her hands on her hips, and said, "I told you, I was a master, I don't need to do it again." Similarly, Jan refuses to do her homework because it's boring. She often objects by saying, "I know already. You don't have to tell me." "They do not agree with the way society runs things," Brahm explains. "They think we're kind of stupid, that we've screwed things up." Brahm says that behavioral problems usually lie with the parents. To help, Brahm suggests including the children in the decision-making process, even allowing them to determine the punishments they should receive for infractions. Kevin Krull, an adjunct assistant professor who runs clinical research on cognitive deficits at Texas Children's Hospital, sees a potential danger in misdiagnosing kids as Indigo. Youngsters with ADD who are not treated, he says, can experience declines in IQ and academic performance, and they have an increased rate of drug use. Though Krull admits there has been a recent increase in children's IQ scores, there are a number of explanations, such as greater access to computers, the way tests are administered, and better nutrition and education. In general, he hasn't noticed any peculiar trends among children other than a slight curvature in their spines due to the increased use of backpacks. Krull agrees that teaching kids they are capable and special can be positive, as long as they are not taught they're better than anybody else. Giving a child too much leeway or too little guidance can cause problems because the last thing to develop in the brain is the ability for abstract reasoning and planning, he explains. Some people don't fully develop that until the age of 30, he says. "Children don't have the ability to take all of the knowledge of life into account." For that, they need parents to guide them. Behavioral problems sometimes develop in children as a result of the unrealistic expectations of their parents. Krull has seen many parents complain that their kids aren't reaching their full potential because they're bored in school. But he says this is often because children might decide that not doing homework is better than doing their best and getting only average grades. They often become underachievers, rebel or internalize their frustrations until they become depressed. "Everybody's child is gifted according to every parent," Krull says. "But most are normal, unfortunately." Back at the Baytown school, Jake finally wanders out of the bathroom and walks straight over to the chalkboard. "I'm just not going to talk to anyone anymore," he says. "My mom is lying." The reason he's upset, he says, is his mother broke her promise not to tell people his secrets. "Remember I told you I had a girlfriend?" he says. She told his best friend, after promising not to. "As a parent, he's my biggest teacher," Jake's mother says. "We're not raising him. He's raising us." If the older Indigos are any indication, the future of these children is very much in doubt. Spence's daughter, who was an Indigo, had Jan at the age of 15. Because of her daughter's problems with drugs and alcohol, Spence took over rearing Jan when she was only six weeks old. Brahm's son, who is one of the first Indigos, was at the head of his class until the ninth grade, when he began to feel like he couldn't continue functioning in normal society. He stopped participating in school and started to fail his classes, eventually turning to drugs and alcohol. "He took 100 hits of acid and opened up the whole universe," Brahm explains. Now he's an auto mechanic with a wife and two Indigo kids. Though working on cars doesn't appear to be the career that will bring the human race to the next state of consciousness, Brahm now believes her son's main purpose was simply to bring her grandchildren, who are the real teachers. She admits that her son and daughter-in-law, a fundamentalist Christian, don't agree that he's an Indigo. Jay Batten is the mother of a 19-year-old restaurant manager who also will not admit being an Indigo. "He's a football player," she says, suggesting he might fear it's too sissy to admit his true nature. Indigos are also highly susceptible to peer pressure. "Mostly he just thinks I'm strange," she says. She believes her 12-year-old daughter will be the real teacher. Brahm says that when Indigos become teenagers, they often lose many of their abilities as they attempt to conform. Unless they're raised correctly, a lot of their spiritual knowledge is lost. The main sanctuary for Indigos and their families is an eclectic store in Galveston called Janet's Planet, which sells everything from books and furniture to cats and crystals. Batten works in the store, and she and Brahm offer New Age classes there. Owner Janet Dee has been known to have a soft spot for homeless kids, whom she often lets hang out in the store. Almost all of them, she says, are Indigos. One homeless Indigo youth, William Wolf, has a lot of "bad energy," Dee says, and sometimes he has to be asked to leave the Planet. (She confirms she's referring to the store.) Wolf once told Dee that all "cats and Jews" should die. "I own cats, and my good friend is Jewish," Dee says. She has been doing her best to show Wolf a "more joyous path." "One fucking negative thing appears in the Houston Press, and I will personally track you down and beat the living shit out of you," Wolf says before wandering off toward the back of the store. "William's a little intense," says Justin English, a 19-year-old who frequents the shop. "Justin's one of our Indigos," Dee explains. "What's an Indigo?" English asks, though he seems to like the idea. Many homeless Indigos do drugs and steal, Dee explains, because they just don't know how to adapt to society's strange, alien ways. Brahm recounts the time she counseled a little Indigo boy who wanted to shoot people because he didn't think anyone could stop him. Brahm explained to him that yes, he could shoot people, but he'd be put in jail. "They don't put little kids in jail," the boy said, but Brahm told him that oh, yes, they do. As long as they understand there's a consequence for everything they do, Brahm explains, they behave. Just be careful to phrase it as an explanation, not an order. Not all Indigos have such a rough time. Rachel Stegall is 26 years old with a bachelor's degree in marine biology and works in a lab at University of Texas Medical Branch. With Brahm's help, she discovered that she was one of the early Indigos. "I always felt I was different," she says. "I always felt more comfortable in nature than with people." She always had a fascination with things from the past, particularly medieval weapons, and yearned to return to the Middle Ages because she wanted to "remember someplace that was happy." She also loved to collect crystals, stones and fossils, and without anyone having to tell her, she instinctually knew that if she put the stones on her cat while it was purring, the vibrations would heal bones. "I always knew I had knowledge I didn't have," she says. "I'm starting to let it fill in." Discovering she was an Indigo made everything seem to fall into place. "It makes me believe in myself more," she says. Last summer during a boat trip to the Amazon, she decided her purpose was to teach people about protecting whales and the tropical rain forest. If there's a message she could pass on to other Indigos, it would be that it's "okay to be who you are and to do what you are here to do. That you have a purpose." As to whether an alien intelligence is behind these unusual children, everyone involved is much more coy. "Nobody really knows," Batten says. "This is a really interesting question." "I'm guessing maybe alien," Jake's mother says. Brahm might have mentioned something about her son coming from the planet Pleiades. "I don't know. I don't understand all of that." "I don't know where souls come from. I don't remember," Brahm says, but she will say there are "six places on my genes that are not technically human." Any chance of getting a look at some of that blood work? "I'm not letting them take blood again. I will not become the object of investigation. I worked at a hospital. I know what they do." The introduction to Carroll and Tober's book An Indigo Celebration, published last year, proclaims somewhat incredulously that readers of their first book "actually concluded that we were promoting the fact that these new children on Earth were space aliens!" A brief browse through their Indigo Children Web site certainly shows how people might have come to that conclusion. There's a link to the sister site www.kryon.com that gives a better idea of the kind of self-help seminars Tober and Carroll are conducting. The site contains transcripts of messages channeled through Carroll from a higher being named Kryon. Carroll is credited as one of only nine channels in the world working "in the service of Kryon." Each channeling begins with the greeting "This is Kryon of Magnetic Service," directed to his followers, whom he refers to as Lightworkers. The messages contain instructions for communicating with spirit, healing and reaching the next "level." Carroll is also the author of several Kryon books, including Don't Think Like a Human. A competing but similar proponent of the idea of highly evolved children is Richard Boylan, a retired social worker and hypnotherapist who works with what he calls Star Kids. He thinks the proponents of Indigos are noticing the same phenomenon but have taken it a bit too far with the New Age stuff. Boylan instead believes parents are being abducted by aliens and having their DNA manipulated to create enhanced offspring capable of telekinesis and ESP. He's seen absolute proof, but as so often happens in these cases, it's been locked away in some secret government lab. He doesn't suggest doing DNA tests on any Star Kids because any irregularities are so subtle that they can be recognized only by an expert. And as so often happens in these cases, the expert is dead of cancer. (Or was that really the cause of death?) Some believers have integrated the competing theories by claiming Crystallines, Indigos and Star Kids are all different stages of evolution. Michael Shermer, the editor of Skeptic magazine and author of Why People Believe Weird Things, says that aliens have become the newest popular religion, fulfilling many of the same needs. People turn to weird ideas, he says, because they want to believe in something that transcends the ordinary, gives certainty in an uncertain world, or helps them deal with their own mortality. "It comes with having a big cortex," Shermer says. Our brains are designed to find patterns, and sometimes we just connect dots that aren't there. Comfort may be one of the things Spence has gotten from her belief in Indigos. Though she always believed in some form of metaphysics, what prompted her to seek out Brahm for a psychic reading was her brother's suicide. Brahm gave her some relief, doing a "clearing" of the house so that her brother's spirit would know it was okay to pass on. During their first meeting, Brahm informed Spence that her brother was probably an Indigo, which was why he had such problems dealing with our world. After hearing more about Spence's difficult daughter, Brahm determined that both Spence and Jan were probably Indigos as well. Brahm told Spence that her granddaughter had wanted to be raised by her all along, but had to "go through Mommy" because Spence couldn't have children anymore. Shermer says psychics and healers can feed the human desire to reconcile with a loved one who has passed on, or can comfort someone by telling her that her raising her granddaughter was "meant to be." In the same way, parents believing that their child is an Indigo might fulfill their wish to have special, gifted kids. These groups tend to be intentionally vague about the specifics so that potential converts can find whatever might fill an emotional void in their lives. Although these ideas may provide peace of mind, Shermer doesn't buy the argument that they aren't harmful. "What's the harm in doing drugs to avoid reality?" he asks. In the end, it's always better to believe harsh truths rather than comfortable lies. So if these kids don't necessarily do better in school, don't necessarily perform any better at work or live any happier lives, what is it about them that makes them "advanced"? What's the difference between an Indigo and some kid who just doesn't like to do homework or follow directions? "If they seem to have a light in their eyes," Dee says. "You just know," Spence says. "I see how the kids turn around and either do what they're told or accept the punishment," Jake's mother says. "I'm around other kids all day long. They're so normal. They follow directions, they will conform, they will do what society expects them to -- they are kids. They do and talk and play. They don't question everything, they don't research everything." She doesn't know how to put it into words, she says, but it's really easy once you know how to recognize it. "You would have to live it to truly understand it." Jan is still drawing trees and suns on the chalkboard, and erasing them as soon as they're finished. She is asked what she likes to do most in school. "To play," Jan answers. "Tell them what you said you missed about kindergarten," Jake's mother says, wanting to demonstrate her child's remarkable gifts one last time. Jake doesn't like first grade, he says, as he plays with a plastic dinosaur. What doesn't he like about it? "Um, um, um," he stutters. "Homework." "What is it you liked about kindergarten?" his mother asks again. "I was just a little kid, Mom," he snaps. He liked all the playtime, she says, because it was unstructured and gave him the ability to learn at his advanced pace. During playtime, she says, he could study the things he wanted to, without being confined to the same rote assignments as the other children. It bores him, she explains, because he's so far beyond that. "I didn't realize that first grade was going to be like this," Jake says, as he stares remorsefully down at his Tyrannosaurus. "I didn't know nobody gets to be kids." Ah, the wisdom of children. Adults can always learn something from them. All they have to do is listen. [UFO UpDates thanks Rebecca Keith for the lead]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 2 Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - McGonagle From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk> Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 10:04:40 -0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 21:19:18 -0500 Subject: Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - McGonagle Happy New Year everyone! >From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net> >To: UFO Updates <UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 14:50:16 -0700 >Subject: Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? >>From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk> >>To: UFO Updates <UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 16:40:21 -0000 >>Subject: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? >Joe, etc., >Strictly from a personal viewpoint I've never been busier or >happier working in Ufology than at this moment in time. Me too, though I haven't been actively involved for as long as you! >Gone are the heady days of the Contactee's. Debunkers are >sputtering in the wind and going nowhere. But, on the historical >front, things are a 'popping! I suppose that depends on your interpretation of "debunker". It seems to me that more and more previously "solid" cases are starting to look quite weak? >I don't regret or forlorn any of the changes Ufology has endured >over the last 56 years. I've been here for every single day of >it! Others may rue the current state of affairs in the field, >but not me. There are definitely some good aspects to the changes over the last 10 years or so. Governments seem to be more accountable and responsive to enquiries, information is much more easily obtained and disseminated, and many ufologists are making good efforts to co-operate. I think that these benefits offset at least to some extent the drawbacks of the information age, but for people new to ufology, it must be confusing with all the different viewpoints expressed, and the proliferation of snake-oil merchants on the WWW. I can easily see how many of them would visit one or two sites and conclude that it is not a worthy area of interest. >From my position I am still finding lost gems of knowledge and >sharing them with the field at large. My work on preserving >various historical aspects are at full speed and will be there >for the next UFO go-around. I enjoy the friendship of others who >share the passion of the historical road of Ufology and getting >the time to go back and review. It ain't boring!!! Far from it! I am digging in to the history of UK ufology, and learning a great deal at the same time! The plethora of groups that have sprung up, flowered, then either withered or merged with other groups is like a chinese puzzle. Trying to track down prominent and not so well known ufologists from the 50's and 60's is a great challenge, but when I have occasional successes, it makes it all worthwhile. The issue isn't really about ufology dieing, but becoming warped into an unrecognisable shape, and losing its focus. >Ufology isn't found on the internet chat lines. It's found by >digging into the past and being ready for the future. There will >always be the "Good. The Bad and The Ugly" in Ufology just as >there are in all fields of endeavor. I am of the opinion that there is _some_ good ufology on the internet, but is trying to filter it out from the dross which is difficult. If casual observers could be given some form of guidance to the better material, it would help the public image of ufology. One major problem as I see it is that there is no central point that people can refer to to obtain an authoritative opinion regarding the merits or otherwise of a particular case/web site/organisation or individual researcher. The main reason for this is that there is no universal "measuring stick" to judge these things by, ie no standards. Thousands of opinions, but what are they worth? >The only reasonably good change in Ufology is that the armchair >ufologists are getting bored and looking for new pastures. As >for everyone else, we grab the gold ring and continue to ride! >Here's why! Again, with the information age, it is often not neccessary to move from your desk/armchair to contact a witness or access documents. The publication of the Rendlesham MOD documents on line saved me a fortune in photocopying (about =A3100 plus postage). If I had to travel to the PRO to trace them first, the costs would include a 400-mile round trip and overnight accomodation on top (another =A3100 +). Now I can access the PRO document index on-line from the comfort of my own home for pennies. I can email a thousand people in ten minutes at the same time if I want at no extra charge. While some aspects of research have become cheaper and easier, there is definitely a lack of funding in the field for those times when you need to travel and stay in a hotel for a few days, or have a few hundred pages photocopied-that always comes out of my own pocket. It would be great if there was a national organisation with some resources to help with the costs for approved research. <snip> Cheers, Joe
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 2 Re: Hynek & Swamp Gas - Cohen From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@optonline.net> Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 06:01:14 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 21:22:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Hynek & Swamp Gas - Cohen A note to Laurel and anyone else following this thread, Holy smokes! As we should all remember, there's always something new to learn no matter how long we've been researching. Brad Sparks wrote a note to correct me when I said Hynek's "Swamp Gas" explanation was given for one case that occurred "in a swamp." The following is what he had to say: [Begin Quote] Dear Jerry, I believe if you research Todd Lemire's Michigan MUFON web site you will find extensive documentation on the Hillsdale sightings including detailed report by the Civil Defense Director who investigated and found out there was NO SWAMP at the location of the UFO's/lights involved in the sightings. It was HARD GROUND. WINTER was not even over at the time and it was quite cold, hardly conducive to any summertime swamp decay of vegetation, etc. Happy New Year, Brad - - - - - jc and in a second note Brad gave me the URL and said scroll half way down the page [jc below the pictures] to get to the Civil Defense Director's investigation: - - - - - http://www.michiganufos.com/1966.html [End Quote] I clicked on the above link to take a look at Todd's site and what greeted my eyes was a fascinating report concerning a case I had always thought was a non-event because I seemed to remember Dr. Hynek writing somewhere (probably either in one of his articles or in one of his books, The UFO Experience or The UFO Report) that the Hillsdale case was one of his "lesser" cases. I was unaware of the Civil Defense study or the particular reports displayed therein. One thing I've noticed just from glancing at van Horn's analysis is that there appears to be a major discrepancy between what van Horn had to say concerning the case and what Dr. Hynek reported back then. Those differences are definitely thought provoking and are probably worth further examination. Any importance I had previously I attributed to Hillsdale was simply that, after a flurry of cases that occurred prior to it, the resulting publicity from same was apparently the final "straw that broke the camel's back" and brought the attention of UFOs to U.S. congressional hearings on capitol hill . . . which in turn led to the Air Force sponsored "Colorado University study," also known as "The Condon Report." - - - - - - I'm including a couple of links below for any readers out there, just tuning in, that don't know what I'm talking about and might be interested in learning more about this. http://www.cohenufo.org/condon.html and numbers 7 & 8 at the following: http://www.cohenufo.org/topicsaddr.html#whodisagrcndn - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Getting back to Michigan 1966: I'm going to read van Horn's report at Todd's web site then I'll try to come back with some comments when I've finished absorbing what's there. Please forgive any delay as my daughter had a baby the night before last and things are a bit crazy around here. Anyone else curious, feel free to take a glance. Respectfully, Jerry Cohen http://www.cohenufo.org/ Additionally, the following link is provided as a link back to the earlier portions of this thread (including Hynek's own explanation concerning Michigan): http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/dec/m29-008.shtml
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 2 Chile: Retired General Discusses Encounter From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 12:08:36 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 21:50:24 -0500 Subject: Chile: Retired General Discusses Encounter INEXPLICATA The Journal of Hispanic Ufology January 2, 2003 SOURCE: Ovnivisi=F3n (Chile) DATE: December 26, 2002 RETIRED CHILEAN GENERAL DISCUSSES HIS ENCOUNTER WITH A GIANT UFO SANTIAGO DE CHILE.- In an interview with Terra.cl., retired general Hernan Gabrielli Rojas mentioned that he had squared off against a gigantic UFO while engaging in a training flight in the skies of northern Chile. According to the military man, the object was the size of 10 or 15 aircraft carriers, and its presence was picked up by the radars aboard two F-5 jet fighters as well as the Cerro Moreno airport in Antofagasta. - What do you remember about your contact with the UFO? Over 20 years have gone by (this was in 1978). I was a captain and was flying a mission with two F-5 fighters. It was noon and I was flying with captain Danilo Catal=E1n - we were both flight instructors. Accompanying us was Fernando Gomez, an avionics tech, and another trainee. The F-5 is radar-equipped, and a line appeared from side to side - in other words, a trace throughout the bottom side of the screen. A trace for a surface ship, a cruiser, is approximately one centimeter long, but this line went from one side [of the screen] to another. I assumed the radar scope had failed, and told Danilo Catal=E1n, but his radar also "failed". I then advised the ground radar at Antofagasta and they also picked up the line. We were engaged with these details when we looked toward the east: we were flying from north to south in the vicinity of Mejillones, and saw a deformed cigar-shaped object. Deformed, like a plaintain banana. It was swathed in smoke. - What was the object's size? It was large and must have been some 15 to 20 miles away. It moved in the same direction as us. We had no missiles, guns or anything. As you can imagine, the fright was more or less considerable. We could see a large thing surrounded in smoke, and from which a vapor issued. All of this situation must have lasted some five minues. We approached the UFO but it was motionless. It neither approached nor retreated - it merely sailed parallel to us. It was quite impressive, because it was truly something strange, and something could be seen in concealment behind the smoke. - What happened later? The object then disappeared toward Easter Island at an impressive rate of speed. The sky cleared and the lines on the radar vanished. However, there had been an object physically flying there. It's not a yarn, let me tell you. It's my only experience with UFOs. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D Translation (C) 2002. Scott Corrales, IHU Special thanks to Cristian Riffo M., Ovnivisi=F3n www.terra.cl/ovnis
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 2 Rainbow File? From: Laurel Oplatka <calabash2003@webtv.net> Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 11:11:31 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 21:52:46 -0500 Subject: Rainbow File? Happy New Year To All! Recently someone here posyted an email regarding the Corso controversy (was it Robert Gates?) and mentioned that Phil Corso, Jr. claims to have in his possession the EBE Rainbow File. Could someone please tell me exactly was IS the Rainbow File and when did it originate? Also, something was mentioned about the 1st chapter of Corso, Sr. new book, and my question is, what new book? Is this referring to the material Corso, Jr. is going to put online starting April, 2003, or what? Thanks, Laurel
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 2 Puerto Rico: Skywatching Hoaxer Exposed! From: Tom King <tomking2030@hotmail.com> Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 21:26:31 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 21:54:42 -0500 Subject: Puerto Rico: Skywatching Hoaxer Exposed! Hello List, I hope everyone takes a few minutes of their time and visits this link to learn about Mike Hawkins. He is one of the biggest UFO hoaxers I've ever came across in this field besides John Rutter. I especially hope you tv producers are reading this before you or TLC re-run more of his hoaxed footage. http://www.ufovideo.com/hoaxes/mikehawkins/hawk1.php Tom King
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 2 Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - Rimmer From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 22:23:19 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 21:59:36 -0500 Subject: Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - Rimmer >From: Roy Hale <roy.hale@ntlworld.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 17:13:56 -0000 >Subject: Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? >Yes, drinking after lectures can be fun, depending on the >company, the problem is, I prefer fruit juice to alcohol, and >that isn't often served in bars over here. Really!!!??? In thirty-five years of semi-professional drinking I don't think I've come across a single pub which doesn't sell some sort of fruit juice or soft drink. When in doubt try Wetherspoons. -- John Rimmer Magonia Magazine www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/00/newmag.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 2 Re: Combat Diary Number 2 - Connors From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net> Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 15:43:41 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 22:03:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Combat Diary Number 2 - Connors >From: Colin Bennett <sharkley@panzerben.fsworld.co.uk> >To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 00:15:13 -0000 >Subject: Combat Diary Number 2 <snip> Keep this up Colin and I'm gonna send you a bill for aspirin, new reading glasses and a new Thesaurus. I mean, come on, haven't you ever given any thought to imitating the writing style of Hemingway or Lincoln Steffens on UFO Updates, just for fun? And you wonder why we threw your tea into Boston Harbor! <G> Here's a breakdown of what Colin is saying in American: 1. Jan Aldrich is being crabby in his golden years. 2. Magonia followers run parallel to themselves and can get neither vertical or horizontal (commonly called anal retentiveness). 3. Pelicanists are like tornados. They both suck. 4. Information is freedom if you pay for it. 5. Forteans are just as weird as the stories they collect. 6. He didn't have a nice New Year's Eve because he didn't get to see the big Green Ball come down in Times Square (he ain't got a TV... talk about being more primitive than a Mongolian sheep herder). 7. Look up to the night sky and name your next kid, "Percival." 8. Metaphysics is what physics hides in the closet and denies. Wendy Connors
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 2 Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 17:49:41 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 22:05:05 -0500 Subject: Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 11:11:55 EST >Subject: Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or Fact?' >>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 13:01:50 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or Fact?' >>Clearly you want to rationalize your conclusions based upon >>beliefs and faith in what can (or should) exist. I'm not sure >>how you transend to a new level of scientific understanding (if >>one exists). To limit one's view of what can exist with self- >>imposed blinders seems to fly in the face of scientific >>exploration. >Steve: >Well, why don't you lengthen the list with other possibilities, >instead of making a political statement? Perhaps we're some unknown phenomenon that we haven't the ability to comprehend or measure given our current level of understanding. The universe is most likely far more complex than many seem to give it credit for. I'll admit that while I happen to live and work in the world of "Politics", I would have characterized my statement as more of a philosophical statement. Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 2 Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or From: Tom Bowden <tomrbowden@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 14:52:30 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 22:09:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 11:02:44 EST >Subject: Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or Fact?' >>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto ><ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 13:07:04 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science >Fiction Or Fact?' >>>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 12:48:48 EST >>>Subject: Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or Fact?' >>>3) Alien spacemen in little flying saucers reversing directions >>>at high speed without being smeared on the inside of the little >>>cabins. >>As per your questions above, I pick number three as the correct >>answer. >>Number one and two are just too outrageouse to consider. >>And ol' Arthur has made more money out of ET than anyone else. >>What's he got to complain about? >Not much, probably. Science _Fiction_ is quite >popular. Bob, Next time you talk to Arthur C. Clarke, ask him if he still believes cold fusion is possible, as he stated on the video tape "Cold Fusion: Fire from Water". Tom Bowden
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 2 Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - Connors From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net> Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 16:04:45 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 22:13:36 -0500 Subject: Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - Connors >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 12:01:48 EST >Subject: Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - Young >>From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net> >>To: UFO Updates <UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 14:50:16 -0700 >>Subject: Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? <snip> >>Wendy: >>"I find your lack of faith disturbing." - D. Vader Bob, You do, huh? I'm sure all the other disturbed people will agree with you. Wendy Connors
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 2 Re: Abductee Stan Romanek? - Maccabee From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 18:24:49 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 22:15:05 -0500 Subject: Re: Abductee Stan Romanek? - Maccabee >From: Joachim Koch <Achimdkoch@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 09:44:41 EST >Subject: Abductee Stan Romanek? >Dear Bruce Mac & List, >Has anyone of you heard anything about Stan Romanek and his >experiences? Has anyone, Bruce for example, analysed his UFO- >stills? Have heard of Stan Romanek. Have seen his video (not a good copy). Video is interesting, multiple witness case of Oct (?) 2001 is interesting... don't know much more than was published in MUFON journal some months ago.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 2 Re: Request for Declassification Review/Release - From: Brad Sparks <address@removed> Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 22:05:20 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 22:38:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Request for Declassification Review/Release - >From: Larry W. Bryant <evelarr@msn.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 22:00:37 -0500 >Subject: Request for Declassification Review/Release - >To: <president@whitehouse.gov> >Subject: Request for Declassification Review/Release of a NARA-housed >(UFO-related?) Doc >TO: Archivist of the United States >U. S. National Archives and Records Administration >ATTN: Records-declassification Authority -- FOIA >8601 Adelphi Road >College Park, MD 20740-6001 >FROM: Larry W. Bryant >3518 Martha Custis Drive >Alexandria, VA 22302 >DATE: January 1, 2003 >In the interest of determining the extent to which UFO-related >references and references pertaining to the supersecret >organization called Operation Majestic-Twelve are contained in >the enclosed "TOP SECRET" NARA-housed memorandum of July >22,1949, I hereby request that your staff subject this censored >OSD memorandum to prompt, comprehensive declassification >review/release. >I of course understand that your review probably will entail >submission of this two-page document to officials within the >following U. S. agencies: Department of Defense, National >Security Council, Department of State, and Central Intelligence >Agency. Accordingly, please keep me regularly informed of the >progress of your coordination with those agencies during the >course of your fulfillment of this request under terms of the U. >S. Freedom of Information Act and the current presidential >executive order governing mandatory declassification >review/release. >Please note that I'm snail-mailing to you a signed printout of >this e-formatted letter. >LARRY W. BRYANT >Director, Washington, D.C., Office of >Citizens Against UFO Secrecy <snip> >[LWB analysis for posting upon the Internet website of UFOcity.com: >The memorandum in question, which is addressed to the executive >secretary of the National Security Council from a USAF general >in the Office of the Secretary of Defense, constitutes one of >several such potential smoking-gun documents that, according to >its discoverers (the father-son team of Robert Wood and Ryan >Wood), might lead us to further UFOlogical revelations on the >magnitude of Roswell, Majestic-12, and beyond -- were we to gain >declassification of the censored portions. The memo's subject >pertains to a (1949?) NSC meeting dealing with "Recommendations >of Dulles Survey Group Report that there be established an >Operations Division, with its separate administration within >CIA." From the typographical pattern of the memo's deleted >passages, we (for the time being) can speculate that they refer >to some special project or clandestine organizational entity. >For example, the second paragraph states: ". . . the >representatives of the Secretaries of State and Defense hereby >confirm their recommendation that administrative support of >_______________operations of CIA should be separate." >And the closing paragraph concludes: "The representatives [of >State and Defense] believe there now is sufficient overstaffing >in the administrative services of the Central Intelligence >Agency to permit the separation of the administrative support of >_______________activities without any substantial >increase at present in the allocation of personnel or funds for >this purpose." >Will the NARA records-tweakers once again fall upon their Sword >of Inordinate Processing Delay, or will they finally realize >that the public's right-to-know takes precedence over their >bureaucratic status quo? Stay tuned.] Dear Larry, You need to stop relying on people who don't know what the heck they're talking about. This is a waste of your precious time (and that of others). The deletions in the McNarney letter to the NSC are simply that of the CIA Office of Policy Coordination (OPC) which has long ago been declassified as a component name, but which the uncoordinated declassification reviewers didn't realize. The OPC was the CIA's covert action operations office from 1948 to 1952 when it was abolished by merger with the CIA espionage- counterespionage office OSO. The merged organization is known today as the CIA Operations Directorate (but in 1952 the Plans Directorate or Clandestine Service). These facts have been public knowledge in intelligence histories going back to Wise and Ross, The Invisible Government (1964). There is no MJ-12 "smoking gun" here, I assure you. Relax. Move on to something else. Save the White House time and expense by just _telling_ them you _know_what_the_deletions_were_, that they were the CIA "Office of Policy Coordination" or "OPC" (or "O/PC") and you want that declassified, that OPC has been public knowledge since the early 60's. Regards, Brad
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 2 Re: Security Classifications - Aldrich From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 23:5:2 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 22:47:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Security Classifications - Aldrich >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 10:10:07 -0400 >Subject: Re: Security Classifications >>From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 16:47:4 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Security Classifications >>>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 17:16:32 -0400 >>>Subject: Re: Security Classifications >>>>From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net >>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>>Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 21:47:50 -0500 >>>>Subject: Re: Security Classifications I am getting more than a little tired of this. Stan, I don't need to get new glasses. You need to read more carefully! See below. <snip> >>>>As I have said before it seems that whenever we start discussing >>>>this topic, it is like a video game with everything reset to >>>>zero. >>I haven't had time to answer some messages I feel are important. >>Now here goes. Again, the statement above applies. >>>I have made a gigantic snip because there are just a few points >>>I wish to make: >>>1. I very much appreciate all the effort Robert Gates made to provide >>>specific examples of aberrantly marked documents. >>>2. I wish to express appreciation for these 2 remarks by Jan Aldrich >>>"I don't pretend to be an expert on presidential papers" and >>>"The White House has its own clearance and access procedures" >>>This was my point, now confirmed by Jan, in noting earlier that >>>Jan's fine credentials did not seem to include procedures etc >>>for the White House, NSC, etc. The CT, TF, and EBE documents >>>would seem to fall under the White House. >>The point is taken, however, just because Stan Friedman and >>Robert Gates have slogged through a number of formerly >>classified White House papers does not make them experts either. >>Neither have taken the time to learn about security procedure at >>the White House. Now in the early days several White House >>classified items list AR (Army Regulation) 380-5 as the >>authority for certain classified actions. No doubt because the >>White House communication is run by the Army. >>>3. With regard to the need for TS Control numbers I referred >>>specifically to pages B-4 and B-5 in my "Final Report on >>>Operation Majestic 12" since these 2 TOP SECRET Documents from >>>Robert Cutler, which were found in the papers of General Nathan >>>Twining at the LCMD, did _not_ have TS Control numbers. >>>The two pages were ignored by Jan in his response. Instead he >>>refers to pages E-11,E-12,E-13. These pages do make an >>>important point since each has a different date format, >>>contrary to the notion of Joe Nickell who objected to the EBE >>>because its date format did not follow the government style >>>manual. >>1. B-4 and B-5 are not White House documents. They were, as you >>say, found in the papers of General Twining. >Jan, you must need new glasses. Page B-5 is MEMORANDUM for >General Twining, signed by Robert Cutler, Special Assistant to >the President {for National Security} The stationery says THE >WHITE HOUSE ,WASHINGTON at the top. I should think any >reasonable person would accept that this is a White House >document. Page B-4 is a copy of a memo for the sec. of Defense >also from Robert Cutler though with a /s/prior to his name. This >means original signed by Robert Cutler.Cutler worked at the >White House. Where did you find the document? In the Presidential library? No in the Library of Congress in General Twining's papers. The document originated in the White House, but was in Gen. Twining's papers. For the purposes of accountability it is not a White Document. Who had the document last? That is the organization which is responsible for safegaurdiing. The exact point I made the documents at B-4 and B-5 were in Gen Twining's papers. >Whether you like it or not, both TOP SECRET documents originated >from Robert Cutler at the White House and were received by >General Twining.Perhaps you have forgotten that the infamous >Cutler Twining document involved the same two people? One would >think these two 1-page TOP SECRET documents might have some >relevance to an evaluation of the one page TOP SECRET RESTRICTED >Cutler Twining memo. Normally the originating office puts on >classification markings. Originated! The holding agency is responsible for accounting for the document that would be Twinging or more properly the USAF. >Note further that the last line in B-5 is "In order to avoid >communication on this subject, it is understood that in the >absence of contrary word your concurrence in the above >arrangements is assumed".. The last line of the CT memo(found at >the National Archives not the Lib. of Cong. Manusc. Div.) is >"Your concurrence in the above changeof arrangements is >assumed". >>2. The items at page E-11, E-12, and E-13 are White House >>documents that is, the last people to have custody of these >>documents while they were classified was the White House. The >>specific pages also contain no classified information but are >>stamped Top Secret. One has as previous pointed out a TS control >>number, while the other two do not, probably a clerical decision >>to separate the transmittal letters from the classified material >>in the latter case. I also gave several reasons why certain >>pages or record included in folders or files might not have TS >>control numbers. >Basically the above comments are irrelevant to the problem at >hand. As I noted in my "Final Report on Operation Majestic 12", >they were included to demonstrate that an imporant official (DCI >Dulles) sent three items to the White House within a 10 day >period with 3 different date formats. Dr. Joe Nickell didn't >like the EBD because it used a non standard date format. Documents at E-11, E-12, E-13 are White House documents originating with the CIA. They are not necessarily irrelavent. They demonstrate that the White House did, in fact, use TS control numbers. They also demonstrate that a document can be marked TS and contain no TS information, i. e., a letter of transmittal. >>>I will repeat once again that I cannot provide copies of the TOP >>>SECRET RESTRICTED Documents noted by the GAO because they were >>>still classified. I tried. >>And Secret Restricted and Confidential Restricted? So there are >>not examples of these to be had? >Again this is irrelevant, Jan. The CT memo is marked TOP SECRET >RESTRICTED. The GAO referred specifically to TSR whether you >like it or not. Their comment is good enough for me and >establishes to any reasonable person that this classification >was occasionally in use in the time period of interest. If I had >supplied a ref. to Secret Restricted, you would say that doesn't >prove there were TSR documents.Kind of a bait and switch >technique isn't it, Jan? No, Robert said there he had also seen Secret Restricted and Confidential Restricted. I invited him to provide some. You chopped up the message, no me. I still want to see some. >>>But, Jan, since you have my report, please see pages B-4, and B- >>>5 to add to your collection of genuine TS documents without TS >>>control numbers. >>But you had the answer, you just cut it out. These are >>declassified documents, they are not seen in their original >>context. >THIS STATEMENT IS TOTALLY FALSE. If you will look at my report >at pages B-4 and B-5, you will note that there are no >declassification stamps on them. There is my hand written >comment "Note: There is no declassification stamp ". Please get >new glasses. The glasses again. Well, Stan, what are you saying that you have currently classified Top Secret documents. Maybe I should turn these in to the FBI for security determination then? No, my statement is not totally false. These documents are no longer classified, i. e., they are declassified! No statement has to appear on them. I have hauled away reams of former classified documents from various archives with no declassified stamps on them. >As a matter of factone of thefunniest scenes I have >seen during mymany visits to a total of 19 Archives involved >just this point. I was with a Japanese Film crew at the LCMD. >They were not allowed to film in the reading room but wanted to >film theoriginals of B-4 and B-5. I pointedthe clerk who went to >get them in the closed storage area to box 120, Eyes Only >Folder. She came back and handed them to thwoman in charge. who >suddenly realized that while the box had been declassified, >these two pages had not been. She dashed to her desk pulled out >a declassification stamp and used it more than once on each >document. Jan they were pristine. I of course had copied them >during my earlier visit.Copies in my FRMJ are as made >originally. Please note again that these two one page TS >documents have no TS control numbers. Now, who is loading up with irrelavent material. Declassification schedules and directive determine declassification. Not a stamp on a piece of paper. How these documents were accounted for was in the context of how they were filed and held when they were active documents. That is the crux of the argument. >The EBD is Copy One of One of a compartmentalized TOP SECRET >MAJIC Eyes Only Document. It also, as to be expected for such a >classification, has no TS control number. >>However, I can trump anything you have said, I have a Top Secret >>document that has not marking on it at all. No Top Secret, no >>nuthin'. >Sounds like a kid I knew who was bragging his father was tougher >than anybody elses. Totally irrelevant. Not irrelevant. Especial in this highly question envirnoment of fake documents. Very important how accual documents are used as template to create false one. However, in this case an actual document available at an archives has been altered and shown to the world as if it is a classified document direct from the CIA vaults. >>http://209.132.68.98/documents/pdf/hillenkoetter-menzel_sept1963.pdf >>I obtained my copy from the APL, it had no classified marking >>and is otherwise completely clean. I like what the Woods have >>done with it though, crude lettering of Top Secret and CIA Copy, >>sooooh convincing. >>Of course, there are a whole bunch of these things on the Woods' >>website. They just have no shame whatsoever. They are still >>pushing the Aquarius Briefing document fabricated with a cover >>sheet used for high level correspondence so there were be no >>smears or stray marks on important letters or items. How silly? >>What is even sillier even after that has been demonstrated, >>people still believe it and wasted time and money chasing it. >>Looking at a review of the an MJ-12 presentation Bill Hamilton >>said the one of the main objections to MJ-12 was the lack of TS >>control numbers which the Woods had answered. >>That is what the Woods would like people to think. One of the >>main objections to MJ-12 that the MJ-12 people are incredibly >>stupid, just less stupid that the three other birds in Bill >>Moore's aviary, the Loon, the Cookoo, and the Turkey, birds who >>swallow this kind of thing. Lack TS control numbers is one of >>the more minor objections. >>In SOM 1-01, MJ-12 proves that they don't know much about >>technical intelligence, logistics, security, or even elementary >>military operations. Nor do they know how to communicate the >>information to the people who must carry out the operation. In >>just 24 hours I listed over 50 objections to this silly >>document. Most have stood up pretty well, but the Woods claim >>they have countered all my objections. I have yet to see any >>such refutations. >>And, of course, Stan, you are still pushing this thing pretty >>hard, also. >Really, Jan? And where is that? Why in Mike McDonald's production on Shag Harbor. There you are over and over again with SOM 1-01! Or do I need new glasses again? Maybe that wasn't you or SOM 1-01? >I published a detailed >refutation of the Tim Cooper MJ-12 documents in my MUFON 2000 >paper "Roswell and the MJ-12.Documents in the New Millennium". >More Bait and Switch, Jan. Yes, you did. I was there remember? It is not bait and switch it is a logical extention of the argument. I am not switching anything. >Yes, I cannot see any good reasons to >say the EBD, CT, TF documents are false. I am working on a >detailed review of Dr. Randle's new book "Case MJ-12" to note, >as previously stated here, errors of omission and commission. Well, I look forward to both. However, I find the whole MJ-12 affair unconvincing. >>Most of the other long MJ-12 documents have all kinds of place >>or out of time errors in them, however, to point them out would >>just give Cooper, Wood, and Wood criticism to do better in the >>next set of documents. >>Jan Aldrich >>Project 1947 >>http://www.project1947.com/ >>P. O. Box 391 >>Canterbury, CT 06331 >>(860) 546-9135 >>PS I just noticed this one. So stupid it is unbelievable. >>http://209.132.68.98/documents/pdf/ipu_fieldorder.pdf >>Hello, who signed the thing? Who do they contact when some >>officer going by orders put out by the CofS to reduce all flying >>to a minimum will not release fuel for their flight, hm? Just to >>whom do they report? The secretary at the front desk? There are >>other thing wrong with this document, it is like doing a >>crossword. See how many stupid things you can come up with, >>gentle reader? >>Don't expect the Woods to come up with any! >Nothing like changing the subject. We were talking about TS >Control numbers not being on all White House documents... and >the unusual TSR classification. Why not just admit you were >wrong, Jan? Or is that asking too much? Again, not changing the subject, extending it. Again, I stand by what I said above. >Stan Friedman Oh, and Stan, maybe, the reason you had trouble above, is that your own glasses that need changing. Just a thought. Jan Aldrich Project 1947 http://www.project1947.com/ P. O. Box 391 Canterbury, CT 06331 (860) 546-9135
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 2 Re: Hynek? - Cohen From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@optonline.net> Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 23:06:02 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 22:49:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Hynek? - Cohen Subject: Hynek? (Addendum) In my single-minded, narrow-focused effort to run this thread in a particular direction, I inadvertently left out some comments from some of our prestigious List members in my last post and I humbly apologize. It's not easy to keep these headers straight and simultaneously keep a train of thought going. When you leave something out in these postings, you can't easily plug them in on a particular page as I'm able to do on my web site. Sorry folks, not intentional. Hope I got them all now. OTHER LINKS TO "HYNEK?" Jim Speiser leaned us toward Swamp Gas http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/dec/m20-009.shtml Stan Friedman's perspective re: Dr. Hynek http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/dec/m20-010.shtml Jerry Clark's (CUFOS) comments re: Dr. Hynek http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/dec/m20-011.shtml Jerry Clark on the "1 in 40" figure re: abductions incorrectly attributed to Dr. Hynek http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/dec/m21-008.shtml Dick Hall and Jerry Clark re: Corso and Lazar http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/dec/m21-009.shtml Jerry Clark: More on Hynek, McDonald http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/dec/m24-013.shtml Dick Hall agreeing with Jerry Clark re: Hynek and McDonald, and acknowledging their differing personal styles. http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/dec/m25-002.shtml Respectfully, Jerry Cohen http://www.cohenufo.org/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 3 C.E.: Interesting UFO Photos/Story From: Chaz Stuart <Daydisk2@WEBTV.NET> Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 01:17:57 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 07:00:00 -0500 Subject: C.E.: Interesting UFO Photos/Story This _seems_ to be legit..... Go to: http://www.mccurtain.com/mthermanufo.htm --Chaz
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 3 Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - Gates From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 02:19:55 EST Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 06:55:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - Gates >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 11:03:49 -0500 >Subject: Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? >>From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 08:37:39 -0000 >>Subject: Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? >I don't want to beat this issue to death, but it raises important >issues. >>>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 13:16:52 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? >>>>From: Roy Hale <roy.hale@ntlworld.com> >>>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>>Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 16:07:36 -0000 >>>>Subject: Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? > >><snip> >>>How does one differentiate between good and bad research (or >>>information) on the Internet? There are many good researchers >>>who have placed their material on the Internet, but how does >>>someone new to the field know that one site is better than >>>another? Do we take the Art Bell approach and simply let the >>>audience decide for themselves? >>In my opinion, Ufology needs a credible National - thence >>International - authority, a group perhaps elected by the >>various local groups, which has the power to set policies and >>standards within ufology, and issue - or withdraw! - a >>'standards compliance' certificate of some kind. >>Of course, this would lead to accusations of 'elitism' etc, but >>so what? If it does raise standards, and becomes recognised as a >>national focal point for the media, the public, and the >>authorities, who cares if the 'Alien Spotters of Great Britain' >>(membership 5 million worldwide, HQ address flat 3b, 14 Backend >>Road, Worthington, Sussex) get the hump and go off in a huff? >>Both of the members - sorry, I mean the President and the Vice- >>President Global Operations - will continue to be ignored. >>Ufology needs to bite the bullet and take hold of the reins, >>otherwise it will simply continue to move in circles. Of course >>this will take a great deal of time and effort, but I believe it >>is achievable. >I think we're talking about the establishment of a 'science' >here, and I would agree with such an effort. Most scientific >disciplines have had establishment and growing pains, and if >ufology is to become a true scientific pursuit of knowledge it >will have to both define itself and establish an accepted peer >review system. I've advocated that in the past, but there's that >question of who will perform that weeding process and how will >they gain the respect of the majority. To a very limited degree, >this was done by the primary research groups in the U.S. for a >number of years, but they've found that their influence has >waned of late. Hi Steve, Listers, We already have a 'Science' that is and has been studied and written about over the years by many people... called Ufology. Personally I have never understood why we keep waiting around for some kind of 'future' recognition from so-called 'main stream science'. Take other fields for example. The geologists couldn't care less what the climatologist do, say, or otherwise...unless of course it has some geological connection. The global warming crowd doesn't care what the geologists, hydrologists or other 'ologists' do, say, or otherwise, unless of course it some how dovetails into global warming. Point being is so-called 'main stream science' consists of fractured groups of people who advocate their various theorys and studys. I guess my comment is that we shouldn't be waiting around for recognition... it is up to 'us' to take care of that in our field so to speak and quit worrying about whether main stream science will recognize us. So called main stream science will never recognize this, that is until the ET ship lands during half time at the Super Bowl and ET gets out. Then you will hear a whole host of pronouncements about why they always thought it was real in the first place, why it should be studied, and oh, by the way, is their any government grant money to be found.... As to peer review, it will be shaky at best. The people doing the reviews will at some point (like main stream science) be accused of bias, or politics or something else. Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 3 Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - McGonagle From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk> Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 08:57:02 -0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 06:57:36 -0500 Subject: Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - McGonagle >From: Roy Hale <roy.hale@ntlworld.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 17:13:56 -0000 >Subject: Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? >>From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 07:57:01 -0000 >>Subject: > <snip> >>They are difficult to find amongst all of the commercial links. >>On the UFO page, you have a link marketing a Fortune Teller >>CD..... what sort of impression do you think this gives of >>ufology? >It gives the impression that I sell CDs on my site? The articles >are very well read, my stats tell me this. IMO, it also gives the impression that ufologists generally are inclined to take fortune telling (or entrail divining, etc) seriously. >>You also have a link to: >>http://www.AngliaEarthMysteries.co.uk >>You may be unaware, but the "owner" of AEM who goes under >>various names including Jack/Jac/Steve Solomon/Lassiter/Sheridan >>and combinations thereof is currently in legal dispute with the >>Norfolk UFO Society with regard to group assets and other >>matters. In fact, if you follow the link which is on your site: >>http://www.angliaearthmysteries.co.uk >>there is a brief statement about the matter there. >I am probably not the only site with a link to this one, on the web. I totally agree, I just thought I should point it out since I had the opportunity. >>Another UK site: >>http://www.crowdedskies.com >>by Roy Lake carries an article by Tony Dodd dated June 2002 >>about the 1970 lightning crash, complete with a fake transcript >>of the in-flight conversation. This incident recently received a >>great deal of publicity both on the national media, and in the >>UK UFO magazine due to the release of the flight accident report >>by the MOD. The UFO connection has effectively been shown to be >>an outright hoax, but there is no mention of these details at >>the site. I am not suggesting that either Tony Dodd or Roy Lake >>were conscious parties to the hoax, but it is an example of an >>article with no foundation in reality (and it does raise a >>questionmark about Dodd's effectivness as an "Alien >>Investigator"....). >Roy Lake is a good friend of mine, I have known roy for years, I >will pass this comment on to him, I feel I am unable to comment >on the issue you raise, perhaps roy will contact you, or even >Tony Dodd. Thanks, I appreciate that. I did try to reach Tony via the site some time ago, but got no reply for some reason. <snip> >>the Sheffield Incident as put forward by convicted drug dealer, >>Max Burns. How someone like him can manipulate people into >>supporting him in spite of his lack of remorse for his crime >>astounds me! He is definitely one character that ufology would >>be better off without! >Every good journalist prefers to meet the people on such issues, >I take it you did this on some occasion? No, I tend to avoid the company of convicted criminals when I can. Especially drug dealers. >>Please don't misunderstand me, I appreciate that operating such >>a web site soaks up a lot of time, money, and effort, and I >>wouldn't expect it to be perfect in every way, but perhaps you >>can see the point about how ufology is often misrepresented on >>the internet in such a way as to either confuse people about >>what ufology encompasses, or even scare them away from the >>topic! I quite like a lot of the content at your sites, there >>are far worse ones out there..... >So what official body would you like to see set up, to make sure >that only the correct data, passed by another body, is seen? I am glad you asked that question, Roy. I have set up a working party related to the question which you will find the details of in a seperate post. Thanks for responding to my post, and I am glad to see that you took no offence at my slightly critical comments. Cheers, Joe
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 3 Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - McGonagle From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk> Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 09:04:17 -0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 06:59:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - McGonagle >From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 17:50:18 +0000 >Subject: Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? >>From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 07:57:01 -0000 >>Subject: Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? >Evening Joe, All, <snip> >Why don't you stick an advert in your local paper, "Anybody >interested in UFO's meet at the Dog & Bone pub/bar/meeting point >the last Friday of every month." No admission fee, just turn up. >I did a similar thing in Kent a few years back and received >quite a good response. Thanks for the suggestion, Sean. Unfortunately, my erratic work regime and a lack of uncommitted time prevent me from getting involved with a local group. I do however travel to events organised by other groups when I get the opportunity, and I usually write a review of the event for the mail list which I administer for people interested in UK ufology. If anyone is interested in joining a UK-focussed List, please register (free) at: http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/ufologyinuk Cheers, Joe
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 3 Campaign For A UK National UFO Authority From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk> Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 09:10:19 -0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 07:02:07 -0500 Subject: Campaign For A UK National UFO Authority I am determined to raise the standards of British Ufology. To this end, I have created the "British Federation of Ufologists" smartgroup. This is only a group intended to steer towards the creation of a national standards authority, _not_ the authority itself. The aim of the group initially is to set an agenda for a summit meeting of all interested parties at a date to be decided, to anticipate the pitfalls, requirements, scope, and viability of such an authority, and to stimulate interest in a national authority. In short, to get the ball rolling. The steering group is open to anyone based in the UK with an interest, either positive or negative, in the creation of such an authority. Overseas members are welcome to join as observers, but are respectfully requested not to play an active part in the proceedings. If you feel strongly that we either do or don't need such an establishment, I urge you to take part in the steering group to ensure that your views are taken into consideration. The URL: http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/bfedou Regards, Joe
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 3 The Top Twenty Cryptozoology Stories of 2002 From: Loren Coleman <lcolema1@maine.rr.com> Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 07:05:21 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 07:48:14 -0500 Subject: The Top Twenty Cryptozoology Stories of 2002 Happy New Year... For a review of the last one, here's... The Top Twenty Cryptozoology Stories of 2002 Please find the link at the top of: http://www.lorencoleman.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 3 UFO Sightings Expected From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 07:54:47 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 07:54:47 -0500 Subject: UFO Sightings Expected http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,5787077%255E13762,00.html UFO Sightings Expected By Paul Dyer January 02, 2003 The UFO capital of the Northern Territory is expecting an increase in sightings when track laying on the Alice Springs- Darwin railway begins again next week. Wycliffe Well, a small roadside stop about 1100km south of Darwin on the Stuart Hwy, is famous for its frequent UFO sightings. ADrail track laying will proceed south of Tennant Creek on Monday, with one camp situated near Wycliffe Well. Wycliffe Well store manager Lew Farkas said he was expecting UFO sightings to increase when work begins. "Mid-year we get a lot more sightings purely because there are a lot more people wandering around in the night," he said. "But in the summertime now there is hardly anybody around. With the workers here it is a matter of more people around so there are more chances of seeing things." Mr Farkas said when ADrail workers were in the area last March sightings increased dramatically. Mr Farkas, who has lived at Wycliffe Well for 18 years, said UFO sightings by staff and tourists were common. "I just had a Japanese TV film crew out here a few days ago," he said. "They had a sighting so they went back happy." Northern Territory News [UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 3 Atmosphere Makes Sirius Dance From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 07:58:41 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 07:58:41 -0500 Subject: Atmosphere Makes Sirius Dance http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/science/20030101-9999_1c1star.html Atmosphere Makes The Stars And Planets Dance By Dennis L. Mammana January 1, 2003 Don't be surprised if you find yourself picking up the phone this week to report a bizarre UFO in the eastern sky after dark. It will appear as a brilliant light that flickers and sparks in a multitude of colors. And if you watch it long enough, you'll see that it seems to dart around in random directions. Now, I've answered many questions from the public about UFOs in my three decades as an astronomer, and there's one thing I've learned from them all - just a small amount of astronomical knowledge coupled with some rational thinking can turn just about every unidentified flying object into an IFO, an identified flying object. And the spectacle you'll see after dark over the southeastern horizon this week is certainly no exception. It's simply the bright star Sirius. When a star appears low in the sky, its light must traverse a long path through our atmosphere before it arrives at our eye. This turbulent air bounces the star's light around and creates the phenomenon we call "twinkling." The brighter the star is, the more easily we can detect its twinkling. Sirius, being the brightest star of the nighttime sky, certainly qualifies. "But wait," you say, "this is no twinkling star! It's radiating colors like a Fourth of July sparkler!" Indeed it is. That's because the star's white light is composed of every color of the spectrum, and each is refracted differently by the atmosphere. This makes the star appear to sparkle with many different colors - especially when viewed through binoculars or a telescope. "OK," you counter, "but this still doesn't explain why the star darts around the sky." This is true, as well. But this phenomenon has little to do with astronomy and much to do with the physiology of the human eye. The eyes' muscles are continually moving. When a star appears in the sky with few, if any, reference points around it - much like Sirius appearing low in the sky - the eyes' movements cause the brain to interpret their movements as those of the star itself. It's a phenomenon called the "autokinetic effect" that has contributed many times to turning the appearance of Sirius (and Venus, Jupiter and other bright objects) into UFO reports throughout the years. Now put the phone down and go outside to enjoy the show. =A9 Copley News Service [UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 3 Kelly Green Men From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 08:02:08 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 08:02:08 -0500 Subject: Kelly Green Men http://www.kentuckynewera.com/cgi-bin/view.cgi?/200212/30+Kelly-Green-12-30-02_n ews.html+20021230+news Kelly Green Men Children of witness to alleged alien invasion defend father's 1955 claim by Michele Carlton mcarlton@kentuckynewera.com Geraldine Hawkins was only 7 or 8 years old the first time she heard the story of the Kelly Green Men. Although her father, Elmer "Lucky" Sutton, said he was one of the people who witnessed the alien invasion on Aug. 21, 1955, he didn't talk about it to Hawkins until the late 1960s when two writers contacted him for an interview. "This was the first I'd ever heard of it," Hawkins said about the Kelly incident during an interview at her home in Princeton on Friday. "I remember it was a man and woman that came to the house. I had never heard anything about it. I remember sitting in the floor with my legs crossed listening to this story. It terrified me." The sighting occurred at Kelly, a small town on U.S. 41 about eight miles north of Hopkinsville. "Lucky" Sutton, who was living in a small farmhouse on the Old Madisonville Road at Kelly, and several family members said a spaceship landed near the house that evening. It was carrying about a dozen little space creatures, they said. "Lucky" Sutton and other family members said they had a gun battle with the creatures that lasted for hours. Most of the Sutton family members who said they fought the aliens off with shotguns are deceased. However, Hawkins and her younger brother, Elmer Sutton Jr., of Trigg County, said their father shared his Kelly experience with them. Hawkins, 41, and Sutton, 35, are the children of "Lucky" Sutton and Glorine Powell, of Trigg County. Their father died on Dec. 5, 1995. "He talked to me about it because I was one of the last ones to leave home," the younger Sutton said. "I prodded him about it a lot. A lot of times he wouldn't talk about it. If I'd catch him in the right mood, he'd sit down and talk for hours about it. When he did, I'd listen. To be honest with you, he knew some day he'd die. I guess he wanted one of us to know the truth." According to the family, a visitor to the Sutton house, Billy Ray Taylor of Pennsylvania, had been in the back yard getting water from the well. He noticed a light streak across the sky and descend into the trees along a ravine about a quarter of a mile away. A while later, "Lucky" Sutton`s mother, Glennie Lankford, saw a creature with long arms and talon-like hands raised in the air approaching the back of the house. "(Dad) said they appeared to have a human shape, but with some modifications that made them different," Sutton said. "He called them little green men. He called them green, but said they actually weren't green. He said they were silver, but they had a greenish silver glow to them. He said they were about 3-foot tall -- about the size of a 5-year-old. Their arms were double the length of humans' and had pointed ears. He said the eyes were in the same place as humans, but were more of an almond shape. The eyes had a luminous glow. He said they really didn't walk, just skimmed on top of ground, but moved their legs." "Lucky" Sutton and Taylor each armed themselves and fired several shots at the aliens, they later reported to police. The siege continued through the night, they said. None of the bullets seemed to affect the creatures. "He told me he didn't know what in the world they had in mind, but he wasn't going to stand around to find out," Sutton said. "He's just one of the kind of guys to see something like that and naturally think `they're going to do something. I've got to protect my family.' I guess that's what he done. He beared arms and started laying into them. I'd have done the same thing. I'd have been aiming right between the eyes," he said. "If they had've hurt one they could have retaliated," Hawkins said. "What else was he supposed to do? Go up and shake one of their hands," Sutton said. The Suttons, Taylor, Lankford and a few children in the house that night said they piled into two cars and headed for the police station in Hopkinsville. City, county and state police, along with military personnel from then-Camp Campbell flocked to the Kelly homestead and stayed until about 2 a.m. They searched the house, the yard, surrounding fields and a wooded area, but reportedly found nothing. The family claimed the creatures returned again about 3 a.m. and stayed until morning. In the past 47 years, numerous media reports have circulated worldwide speculating about what happened in the community of Kelly. Most recently, the local legend has attracted the attention of an independent production company in Glendale, Calif. A film crew from Barcon Productions came to Hopkinsville over the weekend to research the Kelly incident. Barcon has been filming eyewitness accounts for a film entitled "Monsters of the UFO" to be released next summer. Contrary to some media reports, Hawkins insists that her father and other family members were not drinking on that night, nor did they fabricate the story. Although investigators at the scene failed to find the spot where the spaceship landed, she said her parents took her to the spot about 20 years later. "The following weekend after those two (writers) had been there to talk to him, they took us out there to where it happened. I remember a big, round burned out place back there in the field. It was still there," Hawkins said. Hawkins and Sutton said many of the reports referred to the Suttons as "a low-status group of people" and used their father and Taylor's employment with a carnival to discredit the family's story. "They sensationalized the story because (Billy Ray and my father) worked at the carnival. That they were able to create this fiasco," Hawkins said. "He wouldn't have done that anyway. He wasn't that type of person. You could look at him and tell that something happened to them that night. They couldn't have made up something like that. They were just country folks. They wouldn't have thought to think up something like that so elaborate. They wouldn't have run to town terrified in the middle of the night." Despite any speculations from outside sources, the siblings believe what their father told them about the Kelly incident. "I could always tell when my dad was pulling my leg or not. He wasn't pulling a fast one," Sutton said. "It was a serious thing to him. It happened to him. He said it happened to him. He said it wasn't funny. It was an experience he said he would never forget. It was fresh in his mind until the day he died. It was fresh in his mind like it happened yesterday. He never cracked a smile when he told the story because it happened to him and there wasn't nothing funny about it. He got pale and you could see it in his eyes. He was scared to death," he said. Hawkins and Sutton agree that people should have more of an open mind to the unexplained phenomena. "I think God didn't mean for us to understand everything. He doesn't want us to know everything," Hawkins said. "Man might want to know everything. I think there's some things out there that He doesn't want us to figure out and know what they are." "We're here. We're breathing and living. Why can't there be something else out there," Sutton said, pointing to the sky. "Back then I think it was harder," Hawkins added. "Now, in this day and age, people are more apt to believe stuff like that. A lot of people don't believe in this stuff. I do. I always have. I believe in ghosts, angels, UFOs. You name it, I believe it." Hawkins and Sutton said they admired their father's work ethic and his strength in dealing with the media circus that followed his family's close encounter at Kelly. "To me, in my mind, he was a hard-working kind of a man trying to raise a family who saw something out of the ordinary -- something people wouldn't believe," Sutton said. "He told the story and people called him a liar. I believe that was the hardest thing for him to swallow -- for people to call him a dog-faced liar and not believe it." "I just want people to realize that they weren't crazy," Hawkins added. "They weren't just seeing things that night. Something really happened to that family." Michele Carlton can be reached by telephone at 887-3235 or by e-mail at mcarlton@kentuckynewera.com [UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 3 UFO Sightings Expected From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 07:54:47 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 07:54:47 -0500 Subject: UFO Sightings Expected http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,5787077%255E13762,00.html UFO Sightings Expected By Paul Dyer January 02, 2003 The UFO capital of the Northern Territory is expecting an increase in sightings when track laying on the Alice Springs- Darwin railway begins again next week. Wycliffe Well, a small roadside stop about 1100km south of Darwin on the Stuart Hwy, is famous for its frequent UFO sightings. ADrail track laying will proceed south of Tennant Creek on Monday, with one camp situated near Wycliffe Well. Wycliffe Well store manager Lew Farkas said he was expecting UFO sightings to increase when work begins. "Mid-year we get a lot more sightings purely because there are a lot more people wandering around in the night," he said. "But in the summertime now there is hardly anybody around. With the workers here it is a matter of more people around so there are more chances of seeing things." Mr Farkas said when ADrail workers were in the area last March sightings increased dramatically. Mr Farkas, who has lived at Wycliffe Well for 18 years, said UFO sightings by staff and tourists were common. "I just had a Japanese TV film crew out here a few days ago," he said. "They had a sighting so they went back happy." Northern Territory News [UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 3 Cloning A Previous Hoax? From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 08:09:33 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 08:09:33 -0500 Subject: Cloning A Previous Hoax? http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A56233-2002Dec30.html Cloning A Previous Hoax? Raelian Claims Highlight a '78 Fraud - and Challenge of Proving Success By Rick Weiss Washington Post Staff Writer Tuesday, December 31, 2002; Page A03 For all the speed with which science was progressing, virtually no one had thought it would happen so soon. Yet there it was in huge block letters on the front page of the New York Post: The world's first human clone had been born. The next day, The Washington Post and other newspapers across the country ran with the story about the rogue scientists who had cloned a human on an undisclosed island. A spokesman connected to the effort refused to identify the infant, citing a desire to "protect the child from harmful publicity." Legislators quickly called for a ban on human cloning. And just as immediately came warnings that such a ban might choke off medically promising research. December 2002? Try March 1978. Indeed, when representatives of the Raelians, an extraterrestrial-worshipping religious group, announced last week that they had created the world's first human clone, their claim was itself a clone of sorts -- a clone of a very similar claim made a quarter century ago, and one that ultimately proved to be a hoax. It took three months in 1978 for scientists to pick apart the science behind that purported achievement, and three years before a court definitively declared the claim to be fraudulent. Now, with the availability of modern DNA fingerprinting, it should take just a few days for scientists to determine whether the alleged clone is indeed a genetic replica of her mother. But there is still room for error in the testing process, and even more room for mischief, scientists warned. If the radical claim of human cloning is to be believed, experts said, it will be important that every detail about how the testing was done be made open to outside scientific scrutiny. "This is a chance to educate the audience about the nature of credible evidence," said Harold Varmus, president of Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center in New York and a vocal proponent of full disclosure of scientific data. Evidence was in short supply in 1978 when the New York Post's headline -- "BABY BORN WITHOUT A MOTHER: He's first human clone" -- sent the world into a fretful tizzy. The newspaper had caught wind of a book that was about to be published by J.B. Lippincott Co., "In His Image: The Cloning of Man." The author, David Rorvik, was a science reporter who had previously worked for the New York Times and Time magazine. Rorvik told the tale of an American millionaire who he said hired him to set up a lab on an unnamed Pacific island. There, he wrote, after five years of effort, a team of scientists successfully cloned the man from one of his cells, creating a healthy baby boy in a surrogate mother. That case was unraveled not by scientists but by a court-ordered demand for evidence that led to a legal ruling in 1981 that the story was "a fraud and a hoax," said Alex Boese, author of "The Museum of Hoaxes." In theory, at least, DNA fingerprinting should bring a speedier and more scientific solution to the current mystery. All that is needed are a couple of blood or tissue samples from the mother and the newborn. If genetic tests show any differences in their DNA patterns, then the baby is not the woman's clone. It takes just a few hours to conduct the necessary tests. If done right, scientists said, there will be no room for discussion or debate, and iffy results should be eyed with suspicion. "Given how simple it would be to verify this claim scientifically, if the results are ambiguous or not unanimously accepted by the scientific community, then there's a prima facie case they have something to hide," said Eric Lander, director of the Whitehead/MIT genome sequencing center in Cambridge, Mass. Still, Lander and others noted, two matching samples do not by themselves constitute proof. "They may show two DNA gels with two identical patterns, but that's very easy to do -- just take two samples from the same person," Varmus said. So as part of the independent validation process that has been promised, experts said, it will be necessary to track the "chain of custody" of the blood or skin samples from the moment they are retrieved from the mother and newborn to the moment they are fed into a DNA analyzer. If any specimen is out of sight for even a minute, suspect foul play, said James Randi, founder of the James Randi Educational Foundation, a Fort Lauderdale, Fla., group that polices paranormal claims and pseudoscientific phenomena. Other problems could also lead to a false conclusion that the girl is a clone. The chemical reaction used to amplify tiny amounts of DNA in preparation for genetic testing is notoriously prone to cross-contamination between samples. That can lead to a false reading of genetic identity in two samples that are, in fact, nonidentical. Multiple tests, by multiple labs, are usually required to ensure accuracy. One could even imagine extreme intentional acts of deception, such as an "exchange transfusion" -- a radical medical procedure occasionally necessitated soon after birth in which a newborn's blood supply is almost entirely replaced by another's -- involving a covert transfusion from, say, her mother's identical twin before genetic testing is done. To guard against blood chicanery, some scientists yesterday recommended doing the genetic tests not on blood cells but on skin cells from inside the baby's cheek. The testing is to be coordinated by a former ABC science correspondent, Michael Guillen, who has said that Clonaid, the company behind the purported cloning, has given him free reign over the process. Guillen holds a doctorate in physics, math and astronomy from Cornell University, but some observers don't have much faith in him. "This man has a reputation," said Randi, the Florida fraud- buster. "He has supported every bit of pseudoscience that's come along. Scientology was just fine with him. Human cloning by a religious cult is right up his alley, and to put him in charge of this kind of thing is like putting the fox in charge of the hen house." In 1997, Randi's foundation awarded Guillen its annual "Pigasus" award (a pig with wings, as in "When Pigs Fly," the gold standard of impossibility), for his "indiscriminate promotion of pseudoscience and quackery." Guillen defended his reporting in a 1997 article for the American Physical Society, maintaining he was rigorous but open-minded. He could not be reached yesterday for comment. It's possible the Raelians really have cloned a person, scientists said, through a combination of skillful hiring and a lot of good luck. "It's a numbers game," said Robert Lanza, a scientist with Advanced Cell Technology Inc. in Worcester, Mass., one of the few research groups that has openly experimented with cloned human embryos. "If you try it enough times, at some point it's going to work." But if, as most scientists suspect, the feat is a fiction, what do the Raelians gain by making the claim and then getting busted? Most science fraud is perpetrated with the hope of not getting caught, said hoax author Boese, who is working toward a doctorate in the history of science at the University of California at San Diego. But the Raelians, he suspects, pose a "special case." "They are making their claim so public, I think for them publicity has to be the main motive. Even if it's exposed as a fraud, they've become known to millions," he said. Based on his studies of previous publicity-driven hoaxes, Boese said, expect the first cloning test results to be ambiguous or otherwise requiring some follow-up. "The way these things usually work out," he said, "is they just keep stringing it out." Staff researcher Lucy Shackelford contributed to this report. =A9 2002 The Washington Post Company [UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 3 How Do You Spot An Alien? From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 08:15:09 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 08:15:09 -0500 Subject: How Do You Spot An Alien? http://iccoventry.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100localnews/page.cfm?objectid= =3D12489706&method=3Dfull&siteid=3D50003 How Do You Spot An Alien? Dec 30 2002 By Catherine Turnell In Close Encounters they were lanky, white-skinned bipeds with huge eyes, in Alien they were reptilian with two sets of teeth and in Men In Black they were short, green creatures with cute faces. But now, scientists at Warwick University say popular images of our extraterrestrial cousins are scientifically flawed and that otherworldly beings are more likely to be completely unrecognisable to your average homo sapiens. Science fiction consultant and biologist Dr Jack Cohen and mathematician Prof Ian Stewart say alien concepts are exactly that in their new book Evolving the Alien. The pair suggest popular TV programme Star Trek is off the mark with its humanoid extraterrestrials, arguing that aliens in Will Smith blockbuster Independence Day are more accurate, as viewers are unable to distinguish the aliens from inanimate objects like clothing or tools. Similarly, an extraterrestrial could not distinguish between a human and a microwave cooker. Failing to define exactly what aliens look like, the academics also speculate what Earth's civilisation would like now had 505 million-year-old fossils, found in Canada in 1909, evolved. Dr Cohen said: "People who now see aliens in the form of little grey men or big eyed monsters are locating their fear images. In the past they would have dredged up equally supernatural incubi, succubi, witches or ghouls to imagine their experience with. While these new cultural alien icons have proved very lucrative for a few people, and very enjoyable for many, it has obscured what real aliens may look like." Evolving the Alien: The Science of Extraterrestial Life, Ebury Press, =A317.99. [UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 3 Looking For Little Green Men In Shag Harbour From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 08:16:43 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 08:16:43 -0500 Subject: Looking For Little Green Men In Shag Harbour Source: Macleans Magazine - Canada http://www.macleans.ca/xta-doc2/2002/12/30/UFOs/77335.shtml UFOs December 30, 2002 Looking For Little Green Men In Shag Harbour BECKY HARRIS Douglas Shand points to the grey sky above the Irish Moss Plant in Shag Harbour, N.S. "That's where they saw it," he says. For the small fishing community, located 250 km southwest of Halifax, the only government-documented UFO sighting in the world is what put the town on the map. On the evening of Oct. 4, 1967, claim some residents, a bowl-shaped object, about 20 m long, fell from the sky. In the investigation reports, both the RCMP and Royal Canadian Air Force call the dark object a "UFO". Years later, in spring 2001, the town's post office unveiled a unique postmark: a blue-ink image of a UFO hovering over a lighthouse and a boat on the water. Now, says Shand, a 43-year- old automotive refinisher, people are making the trek from as far away as Europe to hunt little green men. Says Shand: "People plan their vacations around coming here." Postmaster Cindy Nickerson flips through the hundreds of letters people from around the world have sent over the last year and a half. They all want their letters, postcards, books and even in some cases, teddy bears, stamped with the alien marking. For some, however, even that's not enough. "Every time we put up a road sign, it disappears," she says. "We've lost five or six already." There hasn't been another sighting in Shag Harbour. But one witness to the '67 event isn't surprised. David Kendrick, 53, thinks the orange lights he saw hovering in the sky have something to do with the U.S. or Canadian air force. But tourists, don't despair. "If they don't see some aliens," says Kendrick, "they'll see some beautiful countryside." [UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 3 Raelians UFOland From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 08:26:23 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 08:26:23 -0500 Subject: Raelians UFOland http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/4856259.htm Posted on Thu, Jan. 02, 2003 Outside Montreal, Raelians have their base: UFOland BY MONICA RHOR mrhor@herald.com MONTREAL - The roadside sign rises sharp and stark on the curving country road. Like a bolt from heaven, neon green letters strike the eye and proclaim: "UFOland." Glowing against a bank of white snow and the darkening winter sky, the words -- punctuated by a drawing of a flying saucer -- pull visitors into a serene, nearly ordinary campground. Nearly. Except for the odd, tear-shaped buildings, designed to evoke the form of alien spacecraft. And the UFOland stamp, tattooed in bold letters across the building walls. And the billboard stating, in French and English: "The Messiah is Alive Amongst Us." Then, it is clear. This is no ordinary place. This is UFOland, home and headquarters to the Raelian Movement -- a Montreal- based religious sect that claims to have created the world's first cloned human. An independent television journalist is arranging tests of the baby they call "Eve," who they say was born to an American mother at an undisclosed location. The announcement, made last week in a Hollywood Holiday Inn, raised eyebrows, sparked ethical debate and piqued international interest in the religion founded by former French journalist and race-car driver, Claude Vorilhon, who says space aliens visited him in 1973 and revealed that they created humans through genetic engineering. In the word according to Vorilhon, who goes by the name of Rael, the aliens gave him a special mission: to prepare humans for the second coming of their extraterrestrial creators by teaching a message of sexual freedom, sensual pleasure and love of science. More than 55,000 people in 84 countries have accepted that message and been baptized into the Raelian religion, sect officials say. But it is here, in the province of Quebec, that Raelians seem to flourish. In cosmopolitan Montreal, Nicole Bertrand, a Level 5 guide -- a rank akin to a Bishop -- can wear her Raelian medallion openly at her job, in public and around her Catholic family. In France, where she was a spokeswoman for the religion, Bertrand says she was fired from a large consulting contract because of her Raelism. In UFOland, a few kilometers outside the tiny village of Valcourt, and a 90-minute drive northeast of Montreal, hundreds of Raelians gather for two weeks every summer for meetings, seminars and sensual meditation sessions. And they are not alone. Although the campgrounds are now closed and empty for the winter, tourists also travel to UFOland's museum during warmer months. They are drawn by curiosity, a taste for the absurd or an interest in extraterrestrials. "At the beginning, people come to have fun. They want to put the Raelian movement down," acknowledged Daniel Heroux, 44, a composer and part-time UFOland tour guide. "But during the visit, they change their mind. In each room, they can find the answer to a lot of questions. At the end, most of the time, they leave with friendlier minds." `THE BUNKER' The rooms include what Heroux calls "The Bunker" -- a paean to UFO sightings around the world, documented in a series of plaques hanging on walls painted to resemble steel. In the center of the room, a metal sculpture of a globe, dotted with twinkling lights, turns slowly on its axis. The showpiece of UFOland, however, is the full-size replica of the flying saucer that Rael says he boarded in 1973 and again in 1975. The silver structure -- shaped like a cup turned upside down on a platter -- is placed in a cavernous hall, with black walls and a ceiling swirling with an illustration of the galaxy. Next to the spaceship: a 26-foot-high model of a DNA strand. In more than 200 tours, says Heroux, a tall man with piercing blue eyes and a shaved head, he has faced only one hostile visitor. In a province where locals pride themselves on open minds and tolerant attitudes, that is no surprise. "Raelians are seen by people here as harmless eccentrics, and viewed with a tongue-in-cheek tolerance," said Susan Palmer, a Montreal sociologist and college professor who studies new religions and has written two books about Raelism. Once steadfastly Catholic, Montreal and its province have seen a large drop-out rate among traditional church-goers. That paved the way for an enthusiastic response to Raelism and its philosophy in the mid-1980s -- especially among young, upwardly mobile residents thirsty for experimental viewpoints, Palmer said. "They are avant-garde PC, against racism and sexism. They believe in sexual freedom," said Palmer, who has researched the Raelist movement for 15 years. EARLY FOLLOWER Nicole Bertrand, now 54, was an early follower. In 1977, Bertrand had a good job as a math teacher, a boyfriend, a nice car -- and a nagging feeling that she was missing the answer to life. Then, a colleague handed her Rael's book, The Message given by Extra-Terrestrials. "I read it in one night. And I saw the answer. It was so simple," said Bertrand, her greenish-blue eyes sparkling as she recalled that night. Before she became a Raelian, Bertrand spent two years researching Rael's claims and logic. In Raelism, she found a religion that rejects pure faith in favor of proven science, sees immortality as a natural outgrowth of genetic engineering and preaches sensual pleasure, not suffering, as the cornerstone of life on earth. In 1981, Bertrand became the first female guide of the Raelist Movement -- a rank that allows her to baptize others. As she speaks, in the corner of The Second Cup, a Montreal coffee shop, Bertrand makes no effort to hide her zeal or the twisting star symbol of the Raelians that hangs on a chain around her neck. Still, Bertrand is quick to point out, Raelians are not a commune-based cult. And anyone looking for the "mix of weird science, loony religion and kinky sex" described by one local newspaper would be disappointed. "We have normal lives. We have jobs. What we do for the movement, we do at night or on the weekends, like someone who volunteers for the Red Cross," said Bertrand, whose Jewish boyfriend accepts her beliefs. "The only time we are all sleeping together at the same camp is at our big gathering in July." The sect's practice of sensual meditation and the existence of the Order of Angels -- Raelian women who have pledged to give themselves to the extraterrestrial creators -- have spawned rumors of sexual abandon. Bertrand, however, says such visions are exaggerated. In Raelism, any type of pleasure is encouraged -- including the choice of multiple sexual partners. But Bertrand says that's not total abandon. Daniel Heroux, the composer and tour guide who became a Raelian in 1980, says sensual meditation has expanded his consciousness and sharpened his music. "Now, I don't need to smoke. I don't need to take drugs. I don't need to get drunk," said Heroux, who opened the gates of UFOland this week for a private tour. "We are made for pleasure. With sensual meditation, I get the same buzz I get when I smoked. And it is free." Heroux, swathed in a white coat, said he feels the same type of high inside the replica of the UFO, which measures 23 feet in diameter. The interior is dark and empty, save for two inflatable plastic chairs. In a certain spot, just at the top of a silver staircase, Heroux plants his feet and hums loudly. The sound echoes off the curved walls and vibrate through his body. "It is like having full contact with everything around you," said Heroux, who like Bertrand, was drawn to Raelism because of its emphasis on science, rather than belief. "For me, it is like whooo! whooo! I want each day to have a life of beauty, of poetry, of excellence." INCIDENTS Not all, however, is paradise. In Montreal, Raelism has run afoul of the Catholic Church after members handed out pro- abortion literature near Catholic high schools and urged students to renounce their faith. In November, someone crashed a truck through the UFOland gates and into a community center. Heroux says his Raelism drove a wedge between himself and long- time friends and collaborators. "When you become Raelian, you have to be prepared to be laughed at, to lose your job, to lose friends and family," admitted Bertrand. "It is difficult for many people. But for me, I am what I am. I cannot be other." [UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 3 Stan Romanek Case From: Jim Cash <jcash@outgun.com> Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 20:37:37 +0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 10:17:30 -0500 Subject: Stan Romanek Case I recently read a message posted about a very interesting case on a man named Stan Romanek. I was wondering if anyone else had more info on this? I first read about it on this List then noticed he was mentioned in the December issue of UFO. That really got me interested. Luckily I have a friend that is a high-ranking member of MUFON. What I was told about this case was astonishing. Not only is there photographic evidence, there is a ton of physical evidence - to the message that was posted on this List in October. I found that this family is trying to stay out of the media. But this is an impressive case and no one will leave them alone, including me! It also seems that anyone that hangs around this man has a sighting, even the head of MUFON. When I did some research on my own, I found that there was very little info about this, in comparison to what is really happening. This is too important to hide so why are they hiding most of the information! When I tried to contact this man I found he no longer lived in Colorado. My friend told me that he moved to Kearney Nebraska to get away from it, but it followed him! I was told that an object even landed in his yard! I decided to take a look for myself, so I went on a ride, and sure enough! If you don't believe me go see for your self. It's a long, white, house on the corner of 16th and 6th in Kearney, Nebraska There is a circle in the backyard next to the garage where the object landed. But I wouldn't step in it if I were you; I got ill, and very dizzy when I did. Please let me know if you have herd anything more on this. I don't think its right they are withholding this information! Thanks Jim Cash jcash@outgun.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 3 Re: Raelians UFOland - Bourdais From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr> Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 17:12:28 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 14:18:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Raelians UFOland - Bourdais >From: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >To: <- UFO UpDates Subscribers -> >Date: Friday, January 03, 2003 2:26 PM >Subject: UFO UpDate: Raelians UFOland >Source: The Miami Herald >http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/4856259.htm >Posted on Thu, Jan. 02, 2003 >Outside Montreal, Raelians have their base: UFOland >BY MONICA RHOR >mrhor@herald.com >In the word according to Vorilhon, who goes by the name of Rael, >the aliens gave him a special mission: to prepare humans for the >second coming of their extraterrestrial creators by teaching a >message of sexual freedom, sensual pleasure and love of science. To all, Here is what a childhood's friend of Claude Vorilhon, alias Rael, revealed in a recent French TV programme. It was aired twice, in 2001 and 2002, by TV networks FR3 and M6, and was not followed by any legal action from Rael, as far as I know. This man, called Roland, was a friend of Vorilhon in the little city of Ambert, in the center of France (Massif Central). I have just viewed again this programme and noted his exact words. He said that they spent an evening together four years ago, and that they spoke very frankly, so he asked him if he had lied about his story. Claude Vorilhon replied squarely: "Yes, I lied, I confirm that, but you knew it, anyway, so I am not teaching you anything!" And he went on to explain that he had never seen any "little green men", but that his tale had helped him reach the place that he enjoys today. I have met with Raelian adepts who believe their leader. I feel sorry for them because many are nice people. They give a lot of money to the Raelian "church" and they are not all rich people. In the last few days, their cloning claim has been widely commented in the French media, and condemned most of the time. But yesterday, the scientist Brigitte Boisselier was interviewed on the French national TV network France 2, by respected journalist David Pujadas. I was distressed to see him remain very neutral and courteous with that person calling Rael "His Holiness" (in French: "Sa Saintet=E9") like the catholic call the Pope. It was a live talk and Boisselier took advantage of Pujadas' courteous attitude to promote the sect. Pujadas was obviously shocked but did not dare to say anyhting. Let's hope this kind of unvoluntary promotion will not be repeated. Among the claims of Rael, I noted this statement that he made himself: The ET who came to Earth created ALL life on Earth 25,000 years ago. Amazing! Gildas Bourdais
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 3 Re: s Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - Hale From: Roy Hale <roy.hale@ntlworld.com> Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 17:10:07 -0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 14:39:43 -0500 Subject: Re: s Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - Hale >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 22:23:19 +0000 >Subject: Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? >Really!!!??? In thirty-five years of semi-professional drinking >I don't think I've come across a single pub which doesn't sell >some sort of fruit juice or soft drink. When in doubt try >Wetherspoons. John, I forgot about the bloody marys!! Roy..
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 3 Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - Hale From: Roy Hale <roy.hale@ntlworld.com> Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 17:23:36 -0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 14:41:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - Hale >From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 08:57:02 -0000 >Subject: Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? >I am glad you asked that question, Roy. I have set up a working >party related to the question which you will find the details of >in a seperate post. Joe, Perhaps a question to the Listers should be: 1: Would the people on this List like to see one official body, which would handle all UFO data, Worldwide? 2: Would the Listers be happy to submit their own research to this body for close examination by "Known" UFO researchers? 3: What way would the Listers, like this body to act? 4: Should such a body be a make up of both Skeptic and Believer, or totally in the hands of the scientific community? Roy..
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 3 Re: Stan Romanek Case - King From: Tom King <tomking2030@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 17:36:46 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 14:43:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Stan Romanek Case - King >From: Jim Cash <jcash@outgun.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 20:37:37 +0800 >Subject: Stan Romanek Case >I recently read a message posted about a very interesting case >on a man named Stan Romanek. I was wondering if anyone else had >more info on this? I first read about it on this List then >noticed he was mentioned in the December issue of UFO. >That really got me interested. >Luckily I have a friend that is a high-ranking member of MUFON. >What I was told about this case was astonishing. Not only is >there photographic evidence, there is a ton of physical evidence >- to the message that was posted on this List in October. >I found that this family is trying to stay out of the media. But >this is an impressive case and no one will leave them alone, >including me! >It also seems that anyone that hangs around this man has a >sighting, even the head of MUFON. When I did some research on my >own, I found that there was very little info about this, in >comparison to what is really happening. >This is too important to hide so why are they hiding most of the >information! When I tried to contact this man I found he no >longer lived in Colorado. My friend told me that he moved to >Kearney Nebraska to get away from it, but it followed him! I was >told that an object even landed in his yard! >I decided to take a look for myself, so I went on a ride, and >sure enough! If you don't believe me go see for your self. It's >a long, white, house on the corner of 16th and 6th in Kearney, >Nebraska There is a circle in the backyard next to the garage >where the object landed. But I wouldn't step in it if I were >you; I got ill, and very dizzy when I did. >Please let me know if you have herd anything more on this. I >don't think its right they are withholding this information! Hello Jim and List, I spoke briefly with Stan Romanek on the phone one time. I was interested in his case wanted to learn more about it. He said MUFON Headquarters was going to investigate it and said it was a very big case for them. I sent an email to nearly everyone at comufon.org that was listed on their website asking for some data. Well I got no response back from them and it seems to be caught in their infamous blackhole. I don't get the MUFON journal so I don't know what was said in there. I would like to see at least 1 case released on their website in the future. Here is a link to a webpage with my info about Stan: http://www.neilslade.com/UFOs.html Let me know what you find out. Tom King www.ufovideo.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 3 Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 13:49:10 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 14:47:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 10:56:15 EST >Subject: Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or Fact?' >>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 09:23:45 -0700 >>Subject: Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or Fact?' >>>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 12:48:48 EST >>>Subject: Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or Fact?' ><snip> >>>>>Budd Hopkins, Dr. John E. Mack and Dr. David M. Jacobs >>>Dick, >>>Which of these gentlemen do you consider a "skeptic"? >>Answer: They are all skeptics. >>Everyone is a skeptic, and everyone is a believer. >Jim: >Oh, come on. We're talking about flying saucers, here. Hello Bob, All, Jim Speiser wrote: >>We just draw our lines at different places. Bob responds: >Yeah, like David Jacobs believing his abductees' stories about >little aliens coming through the walls. ...and Budd Hopkins' abductees, John Mack's, Ray Fowler's, etc. How do all these men dare to believe what is being reported to them by people who they have determined (through investigation and after having spent countless hours with them ) to be credible individuals. I assume you share another of your uncle Phil's beliefs; that all abductees are a bunch of little nothings that only want to get their faces on TV. How sick a thing/judgement, is that to say about a group of people that neither himself or any of his 'followers' have ever investigated for themselves. Otherwise why would you summarily dismiss all those reports without ever having investigated a single one yourself? Armchair ufology? More like another example of Stan's 'investigation by proclamation.' One of its (ufology) many forms that I wouldn't mind seeing go the way of the dodo. At times, because of your extreme closed minded-ness on the subject, I am genuinely surprised that you have survived this long on this List. (Or any other for that matter!) >Are you coming from another planet or something? It's one thing >to argue your points on the List, but when you deny that another >point of view actually exists, you're insulting everybody. Geez Louise! You do that yourself _every-time_ you post! Flash!!! Pot calls kettle black! I can't speak for any one else. All I know is, I feel insulted just about every time I read one of your judgmental and often times condescending posts. >At least Dick Hall and I realize that we're just likely to go on >beating each other over the head, like Punch and Judy. Some people just 'get off' on abuse! R U 1 of those? >Clear skies, You have to scrape the funk off your glasses before you can see em/enjoy em. :) >"This is like discussing the etymology of Klingon nouns: it >passes the time, is quite diverting and may lead to a greater >understanding of the human condition in our examination of >people's need to speak Klingon." - Steve Rotsky Occasionally, the things we say to others are the very things we need to hear the most ourselves. Regards, Happy New Year... John Velez Who, according to Bob's uncle Phil is a lying, deluded little nothing who only wants to get on TV. Gimme a break..... Sign the International Petition to the United Nations for disclosure of information pertaining to UFOs. http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 3 Re: Atmosphere Makes Sirius Dance - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 14:54:32 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 14:53:24 -0500 Subject: Re: Atmosphere Makes Sirius Dance - Ledger >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >To: <- UFO UpDates Subscribers -> Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 07:58:41 -0500 >Subject: UFO UpDate: Atmosphere Makes Sirius Dance >Source: The San Diego Union Tribune >http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/science/20030101-9999_1c1star.html >Atmosphere Makes The Stars And Planets Dance >By Dennis L. Mammana >January 1, 2003 >Don't be surprised if you find yourself picking up the phone >this week to report a bizarre UFO in the eastern sky after dark. >It will appear as a brilliant light that flickers and sparks in >a multitude of colors. And if you watch it long enough, you'll >see that it seems to dart around in random directions. >Now, I've answered many questions from the public about UFOs >in my three decades as an astronomer, and there's one thing I've >learned from them all - just a small amount of astronomical >knowledge coupled with some rational thinking can turn just >about every unidentified flying object into an IFO, an >identified flying object. And the spectacle you'll see after >dark over the southeastern horizon this week is certainly no >exception. And here I've been wasting my time all these years when the answer was right in front of my eye. Why haven't I read about this before? Where has this messiah -sorry Mammana- been all my life. Talk about recycling old and useless garbage. Shades of Don Adams it's "the old shifting atmoshphere trick" itself a rarity but yet according to Mammana it acounts for most UFO sightings. You'll note that he fails to inform that this abberation start movement] occurs over very small areas but I suppose if you throw in occular scintillation and Venus reflecting off swamp gas and snow crystals when the Moon is in the Seventh house it's possible. Can't you just see this guy patting people on the head saying,"There, there now. You just leave the thinking to me. After all I AM an astronomer." Betcha this fathead has never read one iota about the phenomenon. "All I know is what I read in the New Yorker. J.Alan who?" Happy New Year all, Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 3 Re: Campaign For A UK National UFO Authority - From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos@yahoo.es> Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 20:51:15 +0100 (CET) Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 17:23:09 -0500 Subject: Re: Campaign For A UK National UFO Authority - >From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 09:10:19 -0000 >Subject: Campaign For A UK National UFO Authority >I am determined to raise the standards of British Ufology. To >this end, I have created the "British Federation of Ufologists" >smartgroup. >This is only a group intended to steer towards the creation of a >national standards authority, _not_ the authority itself. The >aim of the group initially is to set an agenda for a summit >meeting of all interested parties at a date to be decided, to >anticipate the pitfalls, requirements, scope, and viability of >such an authority, and to stimulate interest in a national >authority. In short, to get the ball rolling. >The steering group is open to anyone based in the UK with an >interest, either positive or negative, in the creation of such >an authority. >Overseas members are welcome to join as observers, but are >respectfully requested not to play an active part in the >proceedings. >If you feel strongly that we either do or don't need such an >establishment, I urge you to take part in the steering group to >ensure that your views are taken into consideration. >The URL: >http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/bfedou Joe, This is a very good idea. It would be advisable not to create a formal association but a loose group of organizations and individuals alike with a wide base. If there would be a common platform to debate standards, report on UFO events, analyze UFO cases, etc., the project would benefit from it. But you do not have to start from zero. I would strongly recommend you to contact with the already established 'European Journal for UFO and Abduction Studies' at: http://www.cisu.org/ejufoas.htm published by the Psychology Dept of Totton College, UK, directed by Craig Roberts <ejufoas@totton.ac.uk> and supported by an international board of editors. This journal might house the concept. I wish you good luck with your attempt. V-J
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 3 Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 18:15:33 EST Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 18:39:24 -0500 Subject: Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 13:49:10 -0500 >Subject: Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or Fact?' >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 10:56:15 EST >>Subject: Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or Fact?' <snip> >Bob responds: >>Yeah, like David Jacobs believing his abductees' stories about >>little aliens coming through the walls. >...and Budd Hopkins' abductees, John Mack's, Ray Fowler's, etc. >How do all these men dare to believe what is being reported to >them by people who they have determined (through investigation >and after having spent countless hours with them ) to be >credible individuals. Hi, John: Because they are either believers, themselves, or are making a career out of it. You may take your pick. These are two possibilities. >I assume you share another of your uncle Phil's beliefs; that >all abductees are a bunch of little nothings that only want to >get their faces on TV. How sick a thing/judgement, is that to >say about a group of people that neither himself or any of his >'followers' have ever investigated for themselves. You don't have the faintest idea what I've investigated. I've looking into so-called Abduction tales that wouldn't have even existed if it weren't for the UFO investigators who were, quite literally, creating the "data" that they thought they were collecting. Clear skies, Bob Young
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 3 Re: Atmosphere Makes Sirius Dance - Young From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 18:25:32 EST Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 18:41:46 -0500 Subject: Re: Atmosphere Makes Sirius Dance - Young >From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 14:54:32 -0400 >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Atmosphere Makes Sirius Dance >>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>To: <- UFO UpDates Subscribers -> >>Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 07:58:41 -0500 >>Subject: UFO UpDate: Atmosphere Makes Sirius Dance >>Source: The San Diego Union Tribune >>http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/science/20030101-9999_1c1star.html >>Atmosphere Makes The Stars And Planets Dance >>By Dennis L. Mammana >>January 1, 2003 <snip> >And here I've been wasting my time all these years when the >answer was right in front of my eye. Why haven't I read about >this before? Hi, Don: Because you stopped actually reading my posts about astronomical IFOs. <snip> >Talk about recycling old and useless garbage. Shades of Don >Adams it's "the old shifting atmoshphere trick" itself a rarity What? Twinkling stars a rarity? Not only must you not read my most valuable posts but you must never actually look up. >but yet according to Mammana it acounts for most UFO sightings. >You'll note that he fails to inform that this abberation start >movement] occurs over very small areas but I suppose if you >throw in occular scintillation You've made up this one. >and Venus reflecting off swamp gas And this. >and snow crystals when the Moon is in the Seventh house it's >possible. Blah, blah, blah. Clear skies, Bob Young
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 3 Re: The Top Twenty Cryptozoology Stories of 2002 - From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 23:59:28 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 19:06:45 -0500 Subject: Re: The Top Twenty Cryptozoology Stories of 2002 - >From: Loren Coleman <lcolema1@maine.rr.com> >To: <Top20@lorencoleman.com> >Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 07:05:21 -0500 >Subject: The Top Twenty Cryptozoology Stories of 2002 >Happy New Year... >For a review of the last one, here's... >The Top Twenty Cryptozoology Stories of 2002 >Please find the link at the top of: >http://www.lorencoleman.com Loren, Relevance to UFOs? This is, after all, 'UFO UpDates'. - Dick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 4 Re: The Top Twenty Cryptozoology Stories of 2002 - From: Loren Coleman <lcolema1@maine.rr.com> Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 19:12:06 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 08:09:06 -0500 Subject: Re: The Top Twenty Cryptozoology Stories of 2002 - >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 23:59:28 +0000 >Subject: Re: The Top Twenty Cryptozoology Stories of 2002 >>From: Loren Coleman <lcolema1@maine.rr.com> >>To: <Top20@lorencoleman.com> >>Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 07:05:21 -0500 >>Subject: The Top Twenty Cryptozoology Stories of 2002 >>Happy New Year... >>For a review of the last one, here's... >>The Top Twenty Cryptozoology Stories of 2002 >>Please find the link at the top of: >>http://www.lorencoleman.com >Loren, >Relevance to UFOs? This is, after all, 'UFO UpDates'. My apologies. Richard Hall is extremely correct. While my "High Strangeness" chapter in my next book, Bigfoot!, due out in April, has material and my thoughts on the 1960s- 1970s sidetrack taken by ufologists down the hairy bipeds path, this post of my 2002 list is a pure mistake. Sorry, Loren _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ Top 20 UFO UpDates Archive Reads Date: 2003.01.03 Total Message Hits = 6823 098 C.E.: Interesting UFO Photos/Story 098 Bob Lazar - True or False? 075 Looking For Little Green Men In Shag Harbour 070 UFO Sightings Expected 068 Raelians UFOland 057 How Do You Spot An Alien? 057 Kelly Green Men 056 Alien-ated Youth 053 'Time Storms' by Jenny Randles 052 The Top Twenty Cryptozoology Stories of 2002 051 Cloning A Previous Hoax? 051 Puerto Rico: Skywatching Hoaxer Exposed! 045 Stan Romanek Case 043 Rendlesham 2 UFO Crash 042 Chile: Retired General Discusses Encounter 040 Rainbow File? 039 Puerto Rico: Chupacabras Resembles Extinct Animal 037 Campaign For A UK National UFO Authority 037 Re: Abductee Stan Romanek? - Maccabee 037 UFO UpDates Archive Top 20 Reads 2002 [Please leave the moderating to the moderator --ebk]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 4 Bob Young [was: Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon... ] From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 00:23:45 +0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 08:16:37 -0500 Subject: Bob Young [was: Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon... ] >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 18:15:33 EST >Subject: Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or Fact?' >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 13:49:10 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or Fact?' >>>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 10:56:15 EST >>>Subject: Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or Fact?' >>Bob responds: >>>Yeah, like David Jacobs believing his abductees' stories about >>>little aliens coming through the walls. >>...and Budd Hopkins' abductees, John Mack's, Ray Fowler's, etc. >>How do all these men dare to believe what is being reported to >>them by people who they have determined (through investigation >>and after having spent countless hours with them ) to be >>credible individuals. >Hi, John: >Because they are either believers, themselves, or are making a >career out of it. You may take your pick. These are two >possibilities. >>I assume you share another of your uncle Phil's beliefs; that >>all abductees are a bunch of little nothings that only want to >>get their faces on TV. How sick a thing/judgement, is that to >>say about a group of people that neither himself or any of his >>'followers' have ever investigated for themselves. >You don't have the faintest idea what I've investigated. >I've looking into so-called Abduction tales that wouldn't have >even existed if it weren't for the UFO investigators who were, >quite literally, creating the "data" that they thought they were >collecting. Bob, Oh yeah? Where can we read the details of your alleged investigations? Have they been published anywhere, or can you direct us to some site where we can read about them? Or are we obliged to simply take the word of someone who has gone firmly on record as preferring to believe that meteors can fly in formation below an airliner, reverse direction, and maneuver in formation, the sighting confirmed by ground witnesses? That Capt. Coyne in 1973 was fooled by a fireball meteor, when again his account that a craft-like object had come alongside his helicopter, hovered, interfered with his flight path was confirmed by ground witnesses? And, finally, when you actually affirm Menzel's stupid explanation for the Nash 1952 airline sighting that he saw fireflies trapped between the panes of glass in the cockpit window, what does that tell us about your critical faculties? Oh, and did the ground witnesses have such an extraordinary degree of visual acuity that they were able to see those fireflies from ground level? You are a barrel of laughs, Bob, but hardly a credible analyst of UFO cases. - Dick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 4 Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - Gates From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 20:30:26 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 08:20:05 -0500 Subject: Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - Gates >From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net> >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 16:04:45 -0700 >Subject: Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 12:01:48 EST >>Subject: Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - Young >>>From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net> >>>To: UFO Updates <UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 14:50:16 -0700 >>>Subject: Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? ><snip> >>>Wendy: >>>"I find your lack of faith disturbing." - D. Vader >Bob, >You do, huh? I'm sure all the other disturbed people will >agree with you. Wendy, The so called skeptibunkers are the ones that appear to be running on faith. They run on the faith that "current" science has all of the answers and there is no future discoveries or information that will change the universe as they know it now. They run on faith that all so called scientific pronouncements are considered to be fact, never to be doubted, when in fact they are theories and arguments... on many cases based upon less knowledge then that provided by UFO witnesses. They run on a faith that a dumbed-down standard of proof for mainstream science is acceptable, while any claim of UFO/ET is to be held to a higher standard of proof. When in fact that so called main stream scientific claims are just as incredible. They run on faith that the other skeptibunkers are accurate. Have you noticed that Ufologists (crypto-aeronautical) researchers have no problem debating and discussing the theories advocated by fellow researchers. Compare that to the skeptics who never/rarely challenge any skeptical explanation advanced by a skeptibunker no matter how foolish it may appear. Has an skeptibunker challenged Phil Klass' theories and material, advocating why Phil is wrong and why their theory and material is more correct? Haven't seen it yet. Perhaps some skeptibunker will surprise everybody. Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 4 Re: Rainbow File? - Gates From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 20:40:04 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 08:22:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Rainbow File? - Gates >From: Laurel Oplatka <calabash2003@webtv.net> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 11:11:31 -0800 (PST) >Subject: Rainbow File >Happy New Year To All! >Recently someone here posyted an email regarding the Corso >controversy (was it Robert Gates?) and mentioned that Phil >Corso, Jr. claims to have in his possession the EBE Rainbow >File. Could someone please tell me exactly was IS the Rainbow >File and when did it originate? Laurel, This was a story that Phil Jr supposedly told a conference (at least according to the organizers) in Florida awhile back. >Also, something was mentioned about the 1st chapter of Corso, >Sr. new book, and my question is, what new book? Is this >referring to the material Corso, Jr. is going to put online >starting April, 2003, or what? Corso Jr. had out a copy of the first chapter/intro of Sr's sequel to Rosell called "A New World If You Can Take It" The title was allegedly taken from what ET told Corso's Sr. in a mine meeting at the White Sands Missile Range in the late 50s. In this manuscript Phil takes a swipe at the critics of his story. It is partially typed and partially hand written. Apparently Corso Jr was going to post the entire manuscript on the Corsofiles.com, but got into some kind of disagreement with the people running the site and it was abandoned between Dec of 01 and March of 02. To my knowledge we haven't heard a peep otherwise. The April 2003 month was allegedly when something/an event was going to happen (apparently according to Phil Senior) where we would supposedly catch up with ET technology of 1947. Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 4 Comments From Roswell UFO Museum From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com> Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 22:47:00 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 08:30:49 -0500 Subject: Comments From Roswell UFO Museum What follows was sent by Julie Shuster, Director of the Roswell International UFO Museum and Research Center and I believe deserves to be seen on this List because of all the discussion about Roswell related matters. STF ----- In 1947, something happened near Roswell, New Mexico. Prior to 1947 and for many years after, military personnel were sent to the Roswell Army Airfield/Walker Air Force Base. The people stationed in Roswell were an elite group. Many handpicked for their special talents. These were people of high integrity and character. For many of the families the arrival in Roswell was traumatic. This community in southeastern New Mexico is not on the way to anywhere. In the early days especially, it could have been considered a horrid place compared to some of the other duty stations and the communities these military families were used to. But they came and they did their jobs with dignity and pride. In 1947, something happened near Roswell. What it was is still to be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, but something happened. The people at the base and in the area were involved. There are certain indisputable facts. A press release went out from the public relations office saying the military had a flying saucer in their possession. The next day a press release from Ft. Worth went out saying no, it was a weather balloon and the controversy began. Over the years, the story was buried by the military and by the people involved until a fluke brought the whole issue to the forefront in the 1980s. As ufology becomes a recognized field and makes its way into the history books, there are certain indisputable facts that come out. First, this is a new field as research fields go. The people involved for whatever reason, typically fall into this work and have other jobs and lives. Some are able to make it less of their world while others focus on it full time. Some of those people do limited research, consider themselves experts and go out into the ufo community spouting their limited knowledge. Others spend years discretely researching events, work hard to maintain not only their credibility but also that of the event and those involved. Books, lectures, television appearances are all the side benefits for the full time or one time researcher. Second, quite often the saying of "don t attack the data, attack the person, it's easier" becomes the method of operation for people who feel they are experts in the field and may or may not have a basis for what they say. Often based on the fact that an individual or group feels they have been left out of the limelight, they go after any and everyone they can while using limited facts and limited current knowledge of the situation. They change from serious researcher to fiction writer and back and forth. As director of the International UFO Museum and Research Center at Roswell, NM the two facts stated above are from my observations. I have been director of the museum for more than 2 years but involved behind the scenes since the beginning. I have watched people go from being genuinely interested in the museum and our mission to being out to destroy us because we are successful. What these people do not realize is we are successful because we have an event and we work very hard to provide the best information to our visitors. The fact that we have not now nor ever plan to charge admission should say something about our desire to provide the general public with information about the ufo phenomena. That has been the goal of the founders from the beginning and continues to be our focus. Unfortunately, what I have also seen is the fact that greed and ego is very rampant among the "researchers" in this field. Statements are posted on this List as well as other places that may or may not be true and they are not questioned. Being born and raised in Roswell, I have known many of the people who were involved in the Roswell Incident all of my life. This was and basically still is a small community. We are close knit. We generally stick together. Comments made by "serious researchers" that people in Roswell are "dupes" because we are from Roswell, NM and not the big city really shows the ignorance of the person making that kind of statement. If you "serious researchers" ever took the time to find out about the strength, political and otherwise, and wealth of this area you would be shocked. We rival many big cities and have since the beginning. As for the recent "revelations" about Frank Kaufmann, I find the attacks personal. The people writing to this List and articles elsewhere do not now or ever have known Frank Kaufmann. They do not know Glenn Dennis and Walter Haut or the others involved in the incident. And for that matter, when was the last time any of these "serious researchers" were in Roswell for anything. As director of the museum, a Roswell native, friend of these gentlemen and their families and the daughter of one of the key players, I find the actions and comments of the critics appalling and self serving. Attack the information that you receive legitimately and can verify, but do not ever personally attack these men of character and dignity. They have served Roswell, the military and their families long and hard. They had lives before the incident and continue to have lives after. Julie Shuster Director
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 4 Re: Security Classifications - Oplatka From: Laurel Oplatka <calabash2003@webtv.net> Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 19:46:50 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 08:36:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Security Classifications - Oplatka >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 10:10:07 -0400 >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Security Classifications - Aldrich >>From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 16:47:4 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Security Classifications >>>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com> >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 17:16:32 -0400 >>>Subject: Re: Security Classifications >>>>From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net> >>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>>Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 21:47:50 -0500 >>>>Subject: Re: Security Classifications Stan, I have been reading with great interest the interchange between yourself and Jan Aldrich re: Security Classifications here. I noticed that pages B-4 and B-5, E-11, E-12 and E13 are being debated here - I would very much like to obtain this material - how can I get a copy of your "Final Report on Operation Majestic 12"? Is it available by ordering it from your website? Also, I would like to know what are EBD, and SOM 1-01? Are these explained in your report? And one more question, if you will, I see that Jan Aldrich says he has a Top Secret document which has no markings on it at all, and he wrote the following: "However, in this case an actual document available at an archives has been altered and shown to the world as if it is a classified document direct from CIA vaults". Is he referring to the Hillenkoetter-Menzel Sept 1963 document, and how is it known that is has been altered? Thank you, Laurel
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 4 Re: Atmosphere Makes Sirius Dance - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 00:04:06 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 08:52:08 -0500 Subject: Re: Atmosphere Makes Sirius Dance - Ledger >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 18:25:32 EST >Subject: Re: Atmosphere Makes Sirius Dance >>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 14:54:32 -0400 >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Atmosphere Makes Sirius Dance >>>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>To: <- UFO UpDates Subscribers -> >>>Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 07:58:41 -0500 >>>Subject: UFO UpDate: Atmosphere Makes Sirius Dance >>>Source: The San Diego Union Tribune >>>http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/science/20030101-9999_1c1star.html >>>Atmosphere Makes The Stars And Planets Dance >>>By Dennis L. Mammana >>>January 1, 2003 ><snip> >>And here I've been wasting my time all these years when the >>answer was right in front of my eye. Why haven't I read about >>this before? >Hi, Don: >Because you stopped actually reading my posts about astronomical IFOs. ><snip> >>Talk about recycling old and useless garbage. Shades of Don >>Adams it's "the old shifting atmoshphere trick" itself a rarity >What? Twinkling stars a rarity? Not only must you not read my >most valuable posts but you must never actually look up. >>but yet according to Mammana it acounts for most UFO sightings. >>You'll note that he fails to inform that this abberation start >>movement] occurs over very small areas but I suppose if you >>throw in occular scintillation >You've made up this one. >>and Venus reflecting off swamp gas >And this. >>and snow crystals when the Moon is in the Seventh house it's >>possible. >Blah, blah, blah. Naw Bob, I was just pulling a Bob Young. CAVU Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 4 Re: UFO UpDate: C.E.: Interesting UFO Photos/Story From: Tom Bowden <tomrbowden@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 22:08:47 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 08:53:34 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: C.E.: Interesting UFO Photos/Story >From: Chaz Stuart <Daydisk2@WEBTV.NET> >To: CURRENT-ENCOUNTERS@LISTSERV.AOL.COM >Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 01:17:57 -0500 >Subject: Interesting UFO Photos/Story >This _seems_ to be legit..... >Go to: http://www.mccurtain.com/mthermanufo.htm Someone should take a closer look at the three photographs and try to enlarge the blue object. In the first two photos, I suspect a lens-flare or "sun dog". The third looks more interesting. I have never seen anything like the cloud anomaly, but when you talked to the weather person, you should have asked if they had any doppler radar images for that area which showed any high-energy weather affects. Could some kind of clear-air turbulence cause such a cloud formation? As for the childrens orange ball seen right at sunset, I suspect a "sun dog" reflected off unusual cloud formations at sunset. Without some other corroborating evidence, there is not much to go on. The best image is the third photo. You should focus your effort on analyzing that one. Tom Bowden Gresham, OR
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 4 Re: Bob Young - Velez From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 04:49:12 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 08:57:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Bob Young - Velez >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 18:15:33 EST >Subject: Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or Fact?' >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 13:49:10 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or Fact?' >>>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 10:56:15 EST >>>Subject: Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or Fact?' ><snip> >>Bob responds: >>>Yeah, like David Jacobs believing his abductees' stories about >>>little aliens coming through the walls. >>...and Budd Hopkins' abductees, John Mack's, Ray Fowler's, etc. >>How do all these men dare to believe what is being reported to >>them by people who they have determined (through investigation >>and after having spent countless hours with them ) to be >>credible individuals. Hello Bob, You write: >Hi, John: >Because they are either believers, themselves, or are making a >career out of it. You may take your pick. These are two >possibilities. Another possibility is; that they are simply going where the data leads them. >>I assume you share another of your uncle Phil's beliefs; that >>all abductees are a bunch of little nothings that only want to >>get their faces on TV. How sick a thing/judgement, is that to >>say about a group of people that neither himself or any of his >>'followers' have ever investigated for themselves. >You don't have the faintest idea what I've investigated. Really? How many of the cases you have "investigated" are abduction cases? How many 'abductees' have you "investigated?" You speak about the subject with the certainty and authority of one who has investigated _many_ abduction cases. This is all news to me. I was completely unaware that you have ever actually/systematically, "investigated" anything. To be quite frank, I always took you for one of those 'arm-chair' pontiffs. If you have "investigated" abduction cases yourself, I would be very interested to hear the results of the data you gathered that has led you to believe that all the individuals you referred to are making theirs up. >I've looking into so-called Abduction tales that wouldn't have >even existed if it weren't for the UFO investigators who were, >quite literally, creating the "data" that they thought they were >collecting. Calling some one a liar in public is a very serious thing. Could you please share the hard evidence you have gathered for this mass public deception on the part of Hopkins et al? I'm 'assuming' that you're calling them liars in this public forum (that they created the data) because you have proof of some kind that has convinced you that this is the case. And that's giving you the benefit of the doubt. I await your "data." Regards, John Velez Sign the International Petition to the United Nations for disclosure of information pertaining to UFOs. http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 4 Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - McGonagle From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk> Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 09:01:44 -0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 08:59:42 -0500 Subject: Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - McGonagle >From: Roy Hale <roy.hale@ntlworld.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 17:23:36 -0000 >Subject: Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? <snip> >Perhaps a question to the Listers should be: I think this is a subtley different area, Roy. >1: Would the people on this List like to see one official body, >which would handle all UFO data, Worldwide? I am particularly focussing on establishing a national body- a world authority may be a consequence of that, but I don't want to run before I can walk. >2: Would the Listers be happy to submit their own research to >this body for close examination by "Known" UFO researchers? I don't envisage any national body encompassing such an activity, though this is based on my own vision of the role of a national body. I see the role as establishing standards within local groups, including the training of investigators and researchers, and a standard group structure with clearly defined roles, eg training officer, national authority representative, records officer, etc. I have proposed that copies of final case reports are forwarded to the national authority for reference purposes, though. >3: What way would the Listers, like this body to act? Simply to define, implement, and monitor standards within local groups and for independent investigators, and provide accreditation for those groups/individuals which attain the standards. Also to set the stage for incremental improvement of standards. >4: Should such a body be a make up of both Skeptic and Believer, >or totally in the hands of the scientific community? To be decided by democratic means. I hope that clarifies my proposition. Cheers, Joe
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 4 Re: Campaign For A UK National UFO Authority - From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk> Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 10:13:27 -0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 09:01:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Campaign For A UK National UFO Authority - >From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos@yahoo.es> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 20:51:15 +0100 (CET) >Subject: Re: Campaign For A UK National UFO Authority <snip> >This is a very good idea. It would be advisable not to create a >formal association but a loose group of organizations and >individuals alike with a wide base. If there would be a common >platform to debate standards, report on UFO events, analyze UFO >cases, etc., the project would benefit from it. But you do not >have to start from zero. I don't know if I have got the true nature of my vision across, I am not really suggesting an elite group of investigator/researchers, but more in the line of something similar to a national trade standards body for ufology, establishing, monitoring, and accrediting groups and individuals who meet or exceed those standards. This would not eliminate bad practices, but the uninitiated would hopefully recognise that accredited groups or individuals had at least reached minimum standards of professionalism. >I would strongly recommend you to contact with the already >established 'European Journal for UFO and Abduction Studies' at: >http://www.cisu.org/ejufoas.htm >published by the Psychology Dept of Totton College, UK, directed >by Craig Roberts <ejufoas@totton.ac.uk> and supported by an >international board of editors. This journal might house the >concept. Certainly I want to involve established groups and organisations in the process (in fact, I need to!), and with regard to training standards I expect the people at Totton College to contribute their experience. It is not my intention to compete with established training organisations, but to define a mutually agreed common syllabus across all such organisations within the country. Currently, several groups operate their own accreditation schemes, many of them loosely based on the BUFORA c ourse with a few bells and whistles attached. I think that the BUFORA course and all of the other courses are overdue for a review, and now is a good time to develop a common syllabus, to which individual groups may wish to add their own bells and whistles. Provided they include the national syllabus within their own syllabae, and meet the national criteria regarding the standard of tutors, their students will be elligible for national accreditation as well as the individual group accreditation. This would enable, for instance, a group which runs a paranormal training course to produce nationally accredited ufologists at the same time. I see no reason why the paranormal groups shouldn't set up a parallel national authority for paranormalology themselves even using the ufological national authority as a model. >I wish you good luck with your attempt. Thanks for your kind comments. Cheers, Joe
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 4 Re: Anomaly Foundation Site English Highlights From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 02:38:15 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 09:04:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Anomaly Foundation Site English Highlights >From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos@yahoo.es> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 16:55:31 +0100 (CET) >Subject: Anomaly Foundation Site English Highlights 02-03 >Dear friend: >The "Anomaly Foundation" is a not-for-profit organization, based >in Spain (Europe) and approved 1997 by the Spanish Ministry of >Education and Culture. Aimed to perform, encourage and fund >scientific-oriented UFO research, it collects financial >donations from individuals and companies in order to achieve its >objectives (in Spain, donations are 25% and 35% tax-deductible, >respectively). [snip] >Our web site: >http://www.anomalia.org >is in Spanish language but you will find relevant papers and >information in English in the following links: >"What it is the Anomaly Foundation" ><http://www.anomalia.org/english.htm> >"UFO book by V.J. Ballester Olmos again available" ><http://www.anomalia.org/g009.htm> >"Declassification! Military UFO Records Released: The Spanish >Experience", by V.J. Ballester Olmos: ><http://www.anomalia.org/declass.htm> >"Anomaly Foundation Solves the Manises UFO Case": ><http://www.anomalia.org/manisen.htm> <snip> Ah! The Manises/Ibiza Island case of 11/11/1979. I had removed that one from my *U* Database, and put it into a separate "poubelle" file within the same application. Thanks to your reminder, this case, which has been cited in innumerable books and articles for over 20 years, is now placed in my online list of discredited UFO sightings: http://www.larryhatch.net/DISCRED.html You will find it by date, scroll down to 1979/11/11. I gave it treatment: a clickable link back to the relevant page on the Anomalia website: http://www.anomalia.org/manisen.htm - - - - On a separate note, Seiko Horiba's ripoff of one of my UFO-map web pages, there is little more to report. It looks like Seiko discovered that I pulled the map and substituted a cartoon about plagiarism (one I stole myself, but I claim no credit for cartooning!) Apparently, Seiko discovered this, and tried to fix it. But! Instead of changing the link to my (altered) image, one she was "deep-linking", she mistakenly yanked her _own_ bottom banner from the same page! (Note the 4 broken image links at bottom.) It not, then maybe she is trying to distance herself from her own tawdry web-page! Either way, this is one stupid woman. Enjoy. http://www.dpstudios.com/redondo/ufo.html Very best wishes - Larry Hatch
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 4 UFO Capital Of 'The Northern Territory' From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 12:21:12 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 09:07:06 -0500 Subject: UFO Capital Of 'The Northern Territory' Source: Yahoo! India News http://in.news.yahoo.com/030102/139/1znvz.html Stig *** Thursday January 2, 3:05 PM The right place to be in when a UFO passes through ** Washington, Jan 2 (ANI): The UFO capital of the Northern Territory in USA may soon become the UFO capital of the world. With the laying of railway tracks in the Springs-Darwin area next week, experts believe there will be a dramatic rise in UFO sightings. Wycliffe Well, a small roadside stop about 1100 km south of Darwin on the Stuart Hwy, is famous for its frequent UFO sightings. ADrail track laying will proceed south of Tennant Creek on Monday, with one camp situated near Wycliffe Well. Wycliffe Well store manager Lew Farkas said he was expecting UFO sightings to increase when work begins. "Mid-year we get a lot more sightings purely because there are a lot more people wandering around in the night," he was quoted as saying in the News. "But in the summertime now there is hardly anybody around. With the workers here, it is a matter of more people around and so there are more chances of seeing things." Farkas said when ADrail workers were in the area last March sightings increased dramatically. Farkas, who has lived at Wycliffe Well for 18 years, said UFO sightings by staff and tourists were common. "I just had a Japanese TV film crew out here a few days ago," he said. "They had a sighting so they went back happy," he said. (ANI) C 2003 ANI.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 4 Old Time Ufology Query From: Andy Roberts <aj.roberts@blueyonder.co.uk> Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 11:56:05 -0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 09:08:47 -0500 Subject: Old Time Ufology Query Pilgrims, A query some of you old timers (or those with massive amounts of knowledge) may be able to help me with. I've come across reference to the UK's alleged first UFO conference. This was apparently held on Lusty Beg Island in Northern Ireland, and was organised by Desmond Leslie and the Countess of Erne. However, none of the two or three mentions I can find give me the date. I _think_ it was 1968 but would like the exact dates for further research. This event was a sort of cross-over between the 'hippy' ufological types such as Neil Oram, Craig Sams and others and the contactee end of the market provided by Leslie. It rained and ended in acrimony! It doesn't appear to be noted in FSR or BUFORA publications for 66/67/68/69 and there are (to the best of knowledge) only two references to it on the net. Any one got any ideas? Happy Trails Andy http://www.flyingsaucery.com "Sometimes you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right". Robert Hunter
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 4 P-47: Bentwaters 1956 New Testimony From: David Clarke <cd292@CRAZYDIAMONDS.FSNET.CO.UK> Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 11:15:29 -0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 09:14:16 -0500 Subject: P-47: Bentwaters 1956 New Testimony Greetings list, Brad Sparks raised the issue of the UFO events at Bentwaters AFB in Suffolk, on 13 August 1956, which were the beginning of the complex events which became known as 'the Lakenheath-Bentwaters' incident. Brad and all previous researchers have relied upon the Air Intelligence Information Report IR-1-56 by Captain Edward Holt of the 81st FBW to Blue Book, dated 31 August, and sent to Blue Book. This was released by Hector Quintanilla to the Condon team in 1968 when the events came to their attention. Holt's report contains statements by the various radar operators at Bentwaters GCA, including all the technical info on APPARENT speed, movements, times of objects tracked from 2130Z on the night of 13 August. It also contains the testimony of 1st Lt Charles V. Metz and 1st Lt Andrew C. Rowe, pilots assigned to the 512th FIS, Bentwaters, who were returning to base from a T- 33 flight at 2130Z, the same time the 'UFOs' were tracked by GCA. Metz and Rowe were asked to search for the UFOs and searched an area NE, E and SE of the base for 45 minutes, between the altitudes of 2000-5000 feet, with negative result. This of course dosen't prove the radar returns were 'spurious', but earlier this year I managed to track down Ist Lt Chuck Metz, USAF Retired, and asked him what he remembered about this incident in 1956. I was surprised by what he had to say. Here is a copy of his response, dated 18 March 2002: ----- Interesting that you should contact me about this subject. The UFO became a very familiar event for us at Bentwaters during our three year assignment there. I have a pretty good memory of a number of UFO sightings and of trying to chase one night. We really were a bit disturbed about some of the things we sighted until the sightings were explained. I will relate a couple of the more significant events to you and you can judge for yourself what we concluded. A few background items that will help you understand why I came to some clear conclusions are in order I feel. First, I have a degree in engineering as a result of college in the late 1940 period of my life. Second, My technical skills are pretty sharp as was demonstrated in later life as a System Engineer in the area of designing, building and testing large satellites used for intelligence gathering. Third, I am and always have been interested in the so called UFO sightings. I read and watch TV programs on UFO sightings and other strange things that seem to happen. Bentwaters AFB had UFO sightings that really kept us excited for weeks in 1956. The event that really started the whole thing consisted of a phone call from the tower operator asking us to take a look at the strange lights that were "floating" on front of the tower. It was early evening and there were only a few of the pilots in the ready room so we all ran out to the tower to see what was happening. I have to say that there were strange glowing balls of light floating in front of the tower. They would float slowly by the tower and then seem to ascend slowly to about 500 feet and cease to be visible. As we stood there we next saw some more light balls floating down the runway from the North end of the runway and do the same thing. We watched this happen for perhaps 20 minutes. It was very easy to let yourself get pretty excited and so we called our GCA and asked them if they say anything. My memory says that they could not find anything on their screens but that they did sight them when they went outside . Their view point was from the East side of the runway slightly to the South of the tower. We were all dumbfounded by this activity. After about 20 minutes the frequency of sightings seemed to decrease to a point of none for 15 minutes and then two balls would appear and do the same thing. After standing in the chill evening air we finally retired to the O Club for a few drinks and talk about what we had seen. At this point I should relate the weather conditions. It was cool and very damp with a light fog in the air. The night was clear of clouds. This strange happening was seen on several nights during the next few weeks. Always the same direction and pattern seemed to be the order of things. Some times there were a lot of sightings and other times only a very few. Spooky to say the least. The conclusion reached for this series of UFO events came about a few weeks later when I just happened to mention the subject to my landlord who had a family estate about four miles from Bentwaters. He said, "oh yes, these lights have been seen many times over the years and long before you came, even during the war and perhaps before." At this point he stated that " these lights only happen during periods of damp slightly foggy weather. They are caused by autos following the road way that runs almost straight at the runway and then turns to the West about a quarter mile from the runway." .... "The cause was determined to be auto lights on approaching machines being somehow reflected by a layers of cold damp air that lay over the area of the airbase as a low altitude." Sounded like a winner to me so we tested the theory and guess what, that was the source of the UFOs. Testing was easy but it was not easy to find the proper conditions and we waited a long time to get a sighting that would allow us to test. When the time arrived we drove down the road toward the runway while observers were standing around the tower. As we descended the high ground North of the runway we would turn the lights off and on for a distance of about a half mile just before the road turned West. Yep, you guessed it. The observers say our lights blink off and on but only by watching the floating balls of light as they drifted by. That was enough for me to say the we had found the source of our "Bentwaters UFOs". True, Andy Rowe and I did look all over the place from the vantage point afforded us from the T-33. We saw nothing of course. Had we have made a Northerly approach to land we might have seen the "UFOs " but the phenomena was not "on" when we landed. I later concluded that the event was again due to strange weather conditions that resulted in lights that were not where they seemed to be. That is about all I can say about that particular event. There was a third event that occurred early one evening some time doing this period of sightings. It consisted of a strange bright light that seemed to be directly East of the Base and was acting sort of oddly. I scrambled in an F-86 and went out over the North Sea chasing it. I used afterburner in the climb and the "thing" just ran off and left me. As I broke out of a layer of poor visibility at about 25,000 feet I finally got my mind to see what was really out there and make the decision that there was no way to ever catch up. It was a nice big star that sure had me going for a few minutes. At about 30,000 feet I reported the star and came home. Just goes to show you that you can really get fooled visually by lights that are effected by water vapor in layers of air. I felt a bit foolish after I returned from that one. There you have the information of the only UFO sightings that I know of during 1954 through 1957. I suspect that there have been many others who thought they were being attacked by strange flying objects that moved in impossible ways at impossible velocities. Andrew Rowe died in the early 1970s so is not around to confirm what I have told you and I can't think of any other specific pilots who were there and viewed what I viewed. That is about it for my part of the Bentwaters UFO adventure. I and my fellow pilots in our squadron were all specially trained for night weather intercepts and so we were all quite competent in such situations. I have seen some really frightening things while in the air but in every case I was able to eventually rationalize what I saw and know that it was just ground light or other aircraft doing a number on me. After many years of flying and viewing strange lights in the sky I can state that there has never been a happening that I could believe was not natural earth bound source light. I would love to see some real UFOs but have given up for the duration. Regards, Chuck Metz ----- Remember folks -- this is the same Bentwaters AFB that abuts onto Rendlesham Forest, where similar 'strange lights' were being reported again during the Christmas holidays of 1980! While I don't believe that Chuck's testimony provides the solution for the 1956 reports, it shows that it is a mistake to rely 100 percent upon facts and figures related in 45-year-old technical reports where context is lacking. Missing from IR-1-56 is any analysis or later results of checking equipment or interviews with the radar operators to cross-check the information they supplied. Chuck's testimony doesn't stand alone. I have also received accounts with additional personnel who were at Bentwaters circa 1954-58 and who have related a whole series of UFO and UFO- related radar-visual incidents, which strongly suggest the 1956 events were just the tip of an iceberg. Virtually everyone who has contacted me suggested the radar reports were the result of the peculiar atmospheric conditions experienced in the vicinity of the airfield. Bill Simpson, who was with Bentwaters GCA circa 1955-57 reported the following: "[once] we tracked a blip moving horizontally across the scope at an estimated 3,300 miles per hour. The other thing I remember was the blips taking a right hand 90 degree turn from horizontal to vertical with no slowing down in speed. In the days following there was some discussion as to the radar beam possibly bouncing off fishing boats off the coast and also radar bouncing or giving false echoes due to atmospheric conditions." Yet another informant supplied us with a photograph taken in Bentwaters tower in 1955-56 which shows the control console with a paper logo attached containing a pencil sketch of a light aircraft being pursued by a UFO! The caption on the drawing reads: "BENTWATERS: HOME OF THE 81ST FIGHTER BOMBER WING AND FLYING SAUCERS!!!" Clearly, Bentwaters was, and still is, a very strange place.... Best, Dave Clarke
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 4 Inside One UFO Hunter's 'Waking Dream' From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 14:16:43 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 09:19:29 -0500 Subject: Inside One UFO Hunter's 'Waking Dream' Source: Salt Lake City Weekly http://cgi.newcity.com/exitlog/frameset.php?close=http://www.slweekly.com/editor ial/2002/feat_2002-12-26.cfm Stig *** The X-Files is absent from the airwaves this television season, but Salt Lake City has its own real-life Fox Mulder on the case: "Alien" Dave Rosenfeld. Rosenfeld, 34, is an agreeable fellow, simple and plainspoken. At our first meeting, he's wearing blue jeans, a gray baseball cap and a black T- shirt with green lettering that identifies him as a member of something called the UFO Search Team. His thin, dark beard outlines an easy grin. We shake hands, and I can't help being impressed by his warm demeanor. He's instantaneously your buddy_a regular Joe from across the street. But there's something different about Rosenfeld. He believes we're not alone. And he's driven, like "Spooky" Mulder, by a personal quest to locate undeniable proof that extraterrestrials are, indeed, visiting our planet. "That's why they call me 'Alien Dave'," Rosenfeld beams. He lives in a small cabin up Emigration Canyon. It's quiet, secluded_a notable UFO hotspot, he insists. He spends his nights scanning the black, star-filled skies above the canyon, hoping to catch a glimpse, and maybe even a snapshot, of something otherworldly. Rosenfeld runs a truck-washing business and devotes much of his free time to investigating paranormal claims_mostly extraterrestrial encounters. He drives a camouflaged Blazer and carries with him a modest investigative field kit comprised of a 35mm camera, a camcorder, a tape recorder, binoculars, flashlights and magnets. Magnets? You never know what might come in handy when seeking to expose E.T. Rosenfeld's equipment does seem, well, a bit inadequate. Rosenfeld's search is not for his own benefit, he says, but for ours. He already knows the truth. Rosenfeld says he has experienced lost time, had alien implants placed inside his body, communicated with alien beings face-to- face. "I don't really care what people think about me because I know what I've seen," he says plainly. I nod and smile as his two- year- old son, Jackson, scurries in and out of the room with a set of Matchbox trucks. I can't help but wonder if this child too will one day grow up to see his own little green men. LITTLE GREEN MEN Rosenfeld was born in San Francisco in 1968. He was adopted by a couple from Salt Lake City and raised here as the youngest of five children. His father sang in the Mormon Tabernacle Choir and worked as a driver's license examiner before becoming a security guard. His mother was a nurse at a rest home. Rosenfeld was a quiet child. He describes himself as an artistic loner who loved the outdoors and science fiction movies, especially "Star Wars." His youth was also marked by inexplicable dreams. The dreams, he says now, were more than they seemed at the time. " I used to go play with naked kids," he says with a laugh as he describes the dreams. "They were aliens, and I would ask them, 'Where are your clothes?' but to me they were just kids." In the summer of 1977, young David was camping in the Uinta Mountains with his two older sisters when he says he saw a large, noiseless object that looked like a red/brown potato moving slowly across the night sky. The craft tumbled end-over- end until it disappeared over the horizon. Then another craft appeared, he says, a simple white light performing complex aerial maneuvers. "It wasn't a big deal at the time," he says. "I didn't know what UFOs were. I was more interested in trying to sleep." Rosenfeld says his first face-to-face encounter with extraterrestrials happened when he was 25. He was bow hunting near Current Creek in Uintah County. The sun was setting as he started back for his campsite, when he got the unsettling feeling that something was there. He felt a headache coming on so he sat down on a log next to the road to rest. A few moments later, a bright ball of light appeared. It spoke to him. "It was talking in my head," Rosenfeld recalls, "and it said, 'Are you ready?' Then a being came out and said, 'You're ready.'" Rosenfeld's description of the being is_ perhaps not surprisingly_vague. He says it took him by the hand and transported him to a windowless, white room reminiscent of those in which Hollywood often stages such encounters. Rosenfeld says he realized then that the dreams of his childhood were actually alien abductions, and the aliens had finally deemed him ready to experience an encounter while fully conscious. And yet, as with all his encounters, he's not certain how he got to the room. He can't be sure he was taken aboard a spacecraft. In the room, Rosenfeld says he saw other humans and aliens, including a female alien that seemed intent on calming his fears. The "grays"_small, large-eyed humanoid creatures_were the most prominent aliens in the room, but there were others too, like a creature Rosenfeld describes as "bug-like" and twice the size of a human. They spoke to him telepathically, he says, and were basically friendly. Sometimes the aliens perform experiments on him and the other abductees, Rosenfeld says. When he was 27, Rosenfeld discovered an alien implant of some sort in his right ear. "I just knew it was something that shouldn't be there," he says as he leans against the kitchen counter, puffing on a cigarette and clutching his earlobe. The aliens eventually removed the object, he says. Since that first conscious abduction nine years ago, Rosenfeld claims he's been taken many times. "Some of the encounters were quite frightening," he says, "and in some ways to even function you have block them out of your mind." His speech lapses into the second person as if some part of his mind is trying to distance himself from these "events." Sometimes the aliens abduct Rosenfeld while he's camping, he says. "Sometimes," Rosenfeld confides, "you'll walk into your room, and there they'll be." But for the time being at least the alien away team appears to be on shore leave, because as Rosenfeld says, it's been over two years since he was last abducted. Rosenfeld tells me he is mired in a court battle over custody of his son. Not surprisingly, Jackson's mother argues that Rosenfeld is delusional, but of course, Rosenfeld insists his belief in UFOs doesn't impair his parenting abilities. Whatever is going on inside Alien Dave, it's clear he sees little green men everywhere. EARTH TO DAVE Agent Dana Scully, the unwavering skeptic of The X-Files, once turned to her partner and asked, "Is there anything you don't believe?" Agent Mulder always seemed vindicated in his fanaticism. A creture was lurking under the bed. A puddle of alien goo had possessed another victim. A spaceship was buried in Antarctica. They were great stories, but fantasy is fantasy, and everyone knows the difference, right? Maybe not, says Joe Nickell, a senior research fellow for the Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Paranormal Claims. Nickell is a former magician and private investigator who seeks logical explanations for the paranormal and inexplicable. Alien abductees "may be telling the truth as far as they know it, and they may be perfectly sane," Nickell says. Many alien abduction accounts are the result of something called "waking dreams." In such a dream state, a person's mind is partially conscious while his or her body remains paralyzed in sleep. This disconnection between mind and body renders individuals susceptible to apparitional-type experiences that seem real to the person. Usually, these experiences are manifestations of a person's hopes or dreams, Nickell says, and many spiritual or religious experiences can be explained by this phenomenon. Individuals of normal mental health are known to have such experiences, and waking dreams are more common than sleepwalking, Nickell says. But some people probably do see what they deem to be UFOs or aliens while fully awake. Within a normal range of people, Nickell says, four percent are classified as "fantasy-prone personalities." Such individuals may have difficulty distinguishing between their conscious and subconscious minds while in a daydream-like state. Creative people and children are most likely to be fantasy prone. Some children invent imaginary friends, but eventually grow out of that stage, while some adults who never had imaginary friends as children are "late- bloomers." Alien abductees, Nickell points out, never seem to be the skeptics. Doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc., are rarely "taken." Instead, abductees are generally "emotional thinkers_creative, intuitive, fantasizing." "I hasten to add," Nickell says, "as a poet, I have some of those traits. Many of us have many of those traits, but the fantasy-prone person has them in spades. "This is why," he continues, "we sometimes say there are no haunted places, just haunted people." A NEW RELIGION UFOlogy_the study of the UFO phenomenon_is a new kind of religion to believers, among whom Rosenfeld is a sort of spiritual leader. Rosenfeld is co-founder and president of a local group known as the Utah UFO Hunters, 23 Utahns who share Rosenfeld's conviction that the truth really is out there. The group started in 1996 during a visit to the Uinta Mountains. A friend's daughter pointed to a shooting star that turned out, Rosenfeld claims, not to be a shooting star at all, but rather a bluish-white light that sailed gradually across the sky. He says they saw about 20 that night. As part of his role as president of the UFO Hunters, Rosenfeld manages the group's website, an online labyrinth of paranormal information, including eyewitness accounts, photographs and art. Mark Woody, 40, a respiratory therapist from Centerfield, Sanpete County, stumbled across the UFO Hunters' website four years ago. Woody expresses admiration for Rosenfeld, but their styles are different. Woody, too, considers himself a serious investigator of the unknown, but he knows what he's seen and understands there are limits to what he can say he definitively knows. "I'm very familiar with military and non- military aircraft," he says. "I'm pretty familiar with astronomical phenomena, and the things I've seen, I haven't been able to explain. I'd like to find the truth that's out there, no matter what it is. I do believe a lot of things take place, but what I've witnessed and can attest to is a lot less than that." Woody hasn't been abducted. He hasn't seen any little green men. The UFO Hunters gather for sky-watches regularly. They head to the location of the most recently reported local sighting and wait. Most sky-watches last until the next morning because UFO activity usually happens just before dawn, Woody says. " A lot of times we don't see anything," he concedes, "but we're not going to make stuff up." UFO Hunter Troy Jackson, 38, a probation officer in Salt Lake, has heard Rosenfeld's stories and knows just how crazy they sound. "I've talked to him at length about them," he says. "Sometimes it's kind of hard to get him to open up about it, but I have no reason to doubt him. In the time I've known him, I can't say he's lied to me. I think it unnerves him a bit, and that's one of the things that's impressed me quite a bit." The UFO Hunters meet monthly at the Hunter Library in West Valley City, a kind of paranormal- enthusiasts support group. Woody and Jackson make it when they can. Rosenfeld is almost always there. A guest speaker_ usually a paranormal author or expert_is invited to chat with the group, and members share their experiences with fellow believers. Everything's fair game: extraterrestrials, out-of-body experiences, reincarnation, lost time, alternate dimensions, talking fields. Members share tales of personal encounters with mysterious orbs of light or ghost-like praying mantises. They talk of being sucked inside crop circle energy vortexes. No one laughs or snickers. For the UFO Hunters, this is a safe arena. "It's an open forum," Rosenfeld says, who admits he doesn't believe everything that's shared at the meetings. "We don't pass judgment or preach our beliefs. We keep a clear head with an open mind." Such uncensored expressions of belief seem to have their own dangers, with tall tales leading to even taller ones. So this is a close-knit group. They have likely circled the wagons out of necessity. TRUST NO ONE There is a conspiracy. Our government has recovered a crashed alien spacecraft, and they don't want us to know about it. It began half a century ago, Rosenfeld says, at the infamously alleged alien-crash site near Roswell, N.M. Maybe it seems implausible that thousands of U.S. government employees would keep so quiet for so long. But Rosenfeld is certain of this. For him, plausibility is barely part of the equation. We've been programmed since birth by television, by the mainstream media, by religion to believe exactly what they want us to believe, he says. Conspirators are everywhere: in Congress, NASA, the FBI. There's a government within a government controlling this operation. We didn't go from computers the size of rooms to microchips overnight without some kind of help. It's all part of a strategic ploy by the government to desensitize the populace to the inevitable: alien contact. The conspiracy can't possibly last forever. The truth's coming soon. A polite, stony-faced nod seems the only proper response. Nickell, the debunker, recognizes the pervasiveness of extraterrestrials in popular culture, but he has a less sinister explanation. The aliens are part of an evolving modern American mythology, he says. A hundred years ago, people reported being abducted by fairies. The fairy claims faded in the 1940s, as science fiction stories popularized tales of visits by otherworldly saucers. By the 1950s, people reported meeting beautiful Venetian women who traveled inside the saucers. With the Betty and Barney Hill alien abduction story of 1961, the large-eyed grays the couple described became the aliens of choice and have remained so ever since. "That's the model that's won out," Nickell says, "and that's the type that people see in their dreams because that's what they're supposed to see." UFO reports have actually declined over the past decade, says Kevin Christopher, public relations officer for Skeptical Inquirer Magazine. "We don't want to say people who are having these experiences are liars," Christopher says. "We just want to point out alternative explanations." Individuals invent alien spaceships and extraterrestrials in an effort to place meaning on things they can't explain otherwise. To illustrate just how easy it is to be duped, Christopher, armed with a two-by-four and some rope, helped create two crop circles last year_one in a wheat field in upstate New York, and another in a wild-grass field in Buffalo, N.Y. "With nothing more than a length of rope and someone standing in the center you can make a perfect circle_or good enough for photographs," Christopher says, "You can create almost any shape you want." Rosenfeld's own encounters fit the pre- existing mythology to a T. Proof is what he needs, but the proof eludes him. JUST THE FACTS, MA'AM Since the formation of the UFO Hunters in 1996, Rosenfeld says he has photographed more than a dozen UFOs. In January of 1998, he took a 10-minute video of an unidentified object floating high over Salt Lake City. The video is shaky, but the camera follows a diamond-shaped, semi-transparent object meandering across the sky. At one point, a light flickers on at the top of the object. Later, a smaller object appears to eject from the bottom and zips around in a circular motion. Halfway through the video, Rosenfeld zooms away from the object and then zooms back in on a nearby jetliner to demonstrate the difference in appearance. The object's not an airplane, but labeling it a Romulan Warbird strikes me as premature. If Rosenfeld's video isn't absolute proof of extraterrestrials_and it's not_then the UFO Hunters say it's at least a significant clue. "I don't think we as a group are going to come across a big smoking gun that's going to prove it to the world," Woody says, "but if you take a look at Dave's video or some video that other people have taken, you see the proof is out there." The videotape, along with two of Rosenfeld's photographs, have been analyzed for authenticity by the National Institute for Discovery and Science, a privately funded organization based in Las Vegas that hires ex-military and law enforcement officers to investigate the UFO phenomenon. NIDS' findings were inconclusive, but the photos and video had not been doctored, they said. But Rosenfeld's evidence hasn't convinced many professional skeptics. "We can talk about eye-witness evidence and photographs and there's a lot of that," Christopher says, "but that's weak evidence. What a skeptic would be asking is, 'Where are the alien bodies? Where is the alien technology?' Until we see that, I don't think a skeptic has any obligation to believe any of it." I WANT TO BELIEVE Maybe the little green men are Rosenfeld's own brand of imaginary playmates. Maybe, as Nickell suggests, they're simply waking dreams, expressions of Rosenfeld's deepest hopes and fears. Even so, there is something child-like and strangely compelling about Rosenfeld and his devotion. Deputy Peggy Faulkner of the Salt Lake Sheriff's Office has no recollection of bright lights or UFOs being reported over Emigration Canyon, but the idea that someone would suggest such a thing doesn't faze her. "I'll tell you," she says, "nothing surprises me anymore after 18 years in this business." If the stories are true, then surely other residents of Emigration Canyon have seen something. Anything. "No," says Tonna Russell, 25, a server at Ruth's Diner. "No, I haven't." The diner is two miles from Rosenfeld's cabin. Rosenfeld admits there are certain occasions when believers "psych themselves out." For example, on some UFO hunts, he says one person would see a satellite, one person would see a mother ship from Venus "and other times," he quickly adds, "everybody's out there, and you just say, 'god, did you see that?'" Those are the moments Rosenfeld lives for. Yes, people laugh. Rosenfeld knows it and doesn't care. "If you don't want to see the truth, you won't," he asserts. "It's easier not to believe." So Rosenfeld continues in his dogged pursuit of the truth. Of undeniable proof. And maybe, like the idealistic quest of his television counterpart, his personal journey will bring him ever closer to the proof he seeks without actually reaching it. "Somebody will," he intones. "If it's not me, it will be somebody else." He smiles. The night is dark, the air is cool and snow flurries tumble to the ground. "Keep your eyes up," Rosenfeld instructs. His words seem part admonition, part punch line. Funny. Talking to Rosenfeld almost makes you want to believe.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 4 Re: Security Classifications - Friedman From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com> Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 13:39:01 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 19:01:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Security Classifications - Friedman >From: Laurel Oplatka <calabash2003@webtv.net> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 19:46:50 -0800 (PST) >Subject: Re: Security Classifications >>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 10:10:07 -0400 >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: Security Classifications - Aldrich <snip> >Stan, >I have been reading with great interest the interchange between >yourself and Jan Aldrich re: Security Classifications here. I >noticed that pages B-4 and B-5, E-11, E-12 and E13 are being >debated here - I would very much like to obtain this >material - how can I get a copy of your "Final Report on >Operation Majestic 12"? Is it available by ordering it from your >website? >Also, I would like to know what are EBD, and SOM 1-01? Are these >explained in your report? >And one more question, if you will, I see that Jan Aldrich says >he has a Top Secret document which has no markings on it at all, >and he wrote the following: "However, in this case an actual >document available at an archives has been altered and shown to >the world as if it is a classified document direct from CIA >vaults". Is he referring to the Hillenkoetter-Menzel Sept 1963 >document, and how is it known that is has been altered? My 108 page 8.5"x 11" "Final Report on Operation Majestic 12" (1990, Published by the Fund for UFO Research and later editions by UFORI) is available from me at POB 958, Houlton, ME 04730- 0958 for US$10. including S. and H. If you mention UFO Updates, I will enclose a copy of my 28page MUFON 2000 Paper "Roswell and the MJ-12 Documents in the New Millennium". The latter demonstrates that a number of the documents received by Tim Cooper are definitely emulations and fraudulent. Final Report is not on my website order blank. It does include full size copies of the Eisenhower Briefing Document (EBD- Nov. 18, 1952), the Truman Forrestal Memo (September 24, 1947) and the July 14, 1954, Cutler Twining Memo, and a host of collateral documents that help give a better picture of the documents and the MJ-12 people and my reasons for thinking that the EBD,TF, and CT are genuine. There is nothing about the Special Operating Manual because that wasn't received by Don Berliner ( another roll of film) until a few years later. There is an unfortunately retyped (I thought it would be photographed rather than typeset by the Publisher) version of most of it in my 1996 book "TOP SECRET /MAJIC". Which has a lot more background info than the Final Report. This hardcover book is available from POB 958 at $15. (list is 22.95) including S and H. I will let Jan explain what he meant. It is my strong conviction that each document must be evaluated on its own. Because I have demonstrated that a bunch of Tim Cooper documents are frauds, tells us nothing about the EBD,TF, CT, or SOM 1.01 items. I can accept VISA or Master Card for my various items. Call toll free at 877-457-0232. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 4 UFO Cult Says World's Second 'Cloned' Baby Is Born From: Loren Coleman <lcolema1@maine.rr.com> Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 14:16:05 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 19:02:52 -0500 Subject: UFO Cult Says World's Second 'Cloned' Baby Is Born World's Second 'Cloned' Baby Is Born, UFO Cult Says http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/reuters20030104_198.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 4 Raelian Story Deserved UFO-Caliber Coverage From: Loren Coleman <lcolema1@maine.rr.com> Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 14:31:17 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 19:07:30 -0500 Subject: Raelian Story Deserved UFO-Caliber Coverage Source: The Pioneer Press - Minnesota http://www.twincities.com/mld/pioneerpress/news/local/4849935.htm Posted on Wed, Jan. 01, 2003 Joe Soucheray: Raelian story deserved Big Foot-caliber coverage Joe Soucheray Pioneer Press columnist The newspapers of America owe an apology to anybody who has ever seen Big Foot tromp through the woods. We also owe apologies to people who claim to have seen images of the Blessed Virgin that show up on the sides of mailboxes and UFOs. Normally, we in the ink-stained wretch business tend to ignore the Big Foot stories and the miraculous image stories and the UFO stories, but I guess we have entered a whole new phase of journalism. We have entered the cloning phase. And by newspapers, I'm talking about real newspapers, the kind that land with a thud on your doorstep, not the ones in the little wire baskets by the cash register in the grocery store. We - along with everybody else who used to be considered a legitimate newspaper - reported the other day about a sect of fruitcakes who claim to have cloned a baby. It was reported as a straight news story. Oh, there was a sentence here and there in most versions of the story wondering about proof but, basically, the story had all the trappings of a real story, including a photograph of the lead fruitcake spokeswoman, Brigitte Boisselier. Now, according to the story this Boisselier is a doctor, or a chemist, or whatever. She called a press conference to announce that her group, Clonaid, successfully cloned a baby girl, Eve. Clonaid, I went on to read, is operated by the Raelians, whose leader, Rael, claims that he met with space creatures in the 1970s and they convinced him that humans were created by genetic engineering 25,000 years ago. OK. Rael, who is somebody named Claude Vorilhon, a former French journalist, apparently made Boisselier a bishop in his sect, and she was in charge of the cloning deal. It gets better, or worse. To mollify critics, Boisselier said she would turn over the process of actually proving her claim to yet another journalist, Michael Guillen, who appears to be of the Geraldo Rivera school of scientific reporting. Among his other reporting during his days at ABC, this Guillen did stories on things like moving objects merely by thinking about them. He is probably big on that bending-the-spoon trick and he sounds like a guy who checks his horoscope every day. When I read the story I thought, "We have too many journalists involved here, not to mention too many French people.'' What the Raelians are up to sounds like a version of the "red barn" con, which used to show up on the television series "The Rockford Files.'' That's when you get a group of conspirators together, each of whom has a role, and they pull off a magnificently elaborate scam in order to defraud somebody of as much money as possible. I haven't quite figured out who the Raelians are scamming, but I'm betting they're scamming somebody, maybe some senile old rich guy who has vowed to give them his fortune if they can produce a cloned baby and somehow thus give him eternal life. And if that is true, that it turns out to be nothing more than an elaborate hoax, it is doubly troubling that anybody printed it. We deserve every ounce of criticism we're going to get for this one. This story should not have been printed. When Boisselier called a press conference nobody should have gone. She has no credibility. The Raelians have no credibility. Rael met with little green men? They have offered no scientific or medical writings. They have produced no proof of their claims. They have not produced the mother of the child. They have not produced the child. I know that many people worry that the media leans to the left. I would be more worried that the media has cracked up.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 4 Re: UFO Capital Of 'The Northern Territory' - From: Tom Bowden <tomrbowden@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 13:53:10 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 19:09:40 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Capital Of 'The Northern Territory' - >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 12:21:12 +0100 >Subject: UFO Capital Of 'The Northern Territory' >Source: Yahoo! India News >http://in.news.yahoo.com/030102/139/1znvz.html >Stig >*** >Thursday January 2, 3:05 PM >The right place to be in when a UFO passes through >** >Washington, Jan 2 (ANI): The UFO capital of the Northern >Territory in USA may soon become the UFO capital of >the world. With the laying of railway tracks in the >Springs-Darwin area next week, experts believe there will >be a dramatic rise in UFO sightings. <snip> This is very confusing. Can anyone tell where in the world this place is? It seems they are talking about Australia. Do Australians customarily use the abbreviation "USA" in reference to their nation? Tom B.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 4 Re: Bob Young - Young From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 17:50:57 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 19:14:25 -0500 Subject: Re: Bob Young - Young >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 04:49:12 -0500 >Subject: Re: Bob Young >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 18:15:33 EST >>Subject: Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or Fact?' >>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 13:49:10 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or Fact?' <snip> >>>...and Budd Hopkins' abductees, John Mack's, Ray Fowler's, etc. >>>How do all these men dare to believe what is being reported to >>>them by people who they have determined (through investigation >>>and after having spent countless hours with them ) to be >>>credible individuals. >>Because they are either believers, themselves, or are making a >>career out of it. You may take your pick. These are two >>possibilities. >Another possibility is; that they are simply going where the >data leads them. John, Yes, that is always a possibility. >If you have "investigated" abduction cases yourself, I would be >very interested to hear the results of the data you gathered >that has led you to believe that all the individuals you >referred to are making theirs up. As usuall, you are putting the entire world through the prism of "the abductee". Perhaps it's because you claim to be one, I don't know. But, please review our previous discussion. Our discussion was about abduction researchers. >>I've looking into so-called Abduction tales that wouldn't have >>even existed if it weren't for the UFO investigators who were, >>quite literally, creating the "data" that they thought they were >>collecting. >Calling some one a liar in public is a very serious thing. Please put my entire sequence of postings through your search engine and tell me if you find the word, "liar" anywhere. If you do, I will personally apologize. Then go to a dictionary and look up the meaning of the word, "self-deception" I doubt that you will do this because you may already know the answer. <snip> >I'm 'assuming' that you're calling them liars in this public >forum (that they created the data) because you have proof of >some kind that has convinced you that this is the case. Once again, John, if you are going to put words into my mouth, stop generating them yourself. Clear skies, Bob Young "There's a sucker born every minute." -- P.T. Barnum
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 4 Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 17:51:05 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 19:18:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 17:49:41 -0500 >Subject: Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or Fact?' >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 11:11:55 EST >>Subject: Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or Fact?' >>Well, why don't you lengthen the list with other possibilities, >>instead of making a political statement? >Perhaps we're some unknown phenomenon that we haven't the >ability to comprehend or measure given our current level of >understanding. Steve, That's a definite possibility. >The universe is most likely far more complex >than many seem to give it credit for. Yes, this is undoubtedly true. Of course, that doesn't make all claims equally likely. >I'll admit that while I happen to live and work in the world of >"Politics", I would have characterized my statement as more of a >philosophical statement. OK, but taken within the realm of Ufology it could be viewed as political. Clear skies, Bob Young
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 4 Re: Corso - Maccabee From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 18:19:30 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 19:21:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Maccabee >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 10:40:41 -0800 >Subject: Re: Corso >>From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 8:39:50 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Corso <snip> >>Is there a giant space-based anti-ET weapons system which is >>keeping the evil ET at bay the result of efforts unknown to him >>at the time >I've no answer to that question nor do you; this holds true for >anyone else on the List. We have absolutely no way of knowing >what the US arsenal holds. These are black projects. How much do >you know about the TR3-b? I have an answer: there are no laser or particle (or other) beam weapons in space capable of withstanding an attack by ET's... or anyone else. There are black projects, but they don't outrun the physics and engineering. But more than that, based on what we know about ET (or whatever they are... Other Intelligences) capabilities from, for example, the Iran Jet Case (Sept 1976), sensor and control equipment that would be used to point a beam weapon toward an oncoming spaceship would be disabled by their technology. I'd say there is zero probability that we have any effective anti-ET weapon in space. (I suppose ET might accidently run into one of our satellites and subsequently burn up as a meteor in the atmosphere. ... shades of the Mogul Balloon-Caused Roswell Crash argument)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 4 Re: Security Classifications - Friedman From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com> Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 19:36:55 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 19:27:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Security Classifications - Friedman >From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 23:5:2 -0500 >Subject: Re: Security Classifications >>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 10:10:07 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Security Classifications >>>From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 16:47:4 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: Security Classifications >>>>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com >>>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>>Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 17:16:32 -0400 >>>>>From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net >>>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>>>Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 21:47:50 -0500 >>>>>Subject: Re: Security Classifications >I am getting more than a little tired of this. Stan, I don't need >to get new glasses. You need to read more carefully! See >below. Jan, if you can't accept that the words White House, Washington DC at the top of a document mean that the document originated at the White House from the office of Robert Cutler who worked at the White House, then you need new glasses or some anti- stubornness pills.The Cutler Twining Memo was from Cutler's office at the White House.That really isn't so difficult to understand. Furthermore in the Pristine TS documents shown on pages B-4 and B-5 of my Final Report form they were not stamped declassified. They had no TOP SECRET CONTROL number and certainly did not need a cover letter .They prove that sometimes TS documents from Cutler's White House Office did NOT always have TS control numbers. Therefore the absence of such numbers on the CT memo is not ground for claiming the CT memo is a fraud. ><snip> >>>The point is taken, however, just because Stan Friedman and >>>Robert Gates have slogged through a number of formerly >>>classified White House papers does not make them experts either. >>>Neither have taken the time to learn about security procedure at >>>the White House. Now in the early days several White House >>>classified items list AR (Army Regulation) 380-5 as the >>>authority for certain classified actions. No doubt because the >>>White House communication is run by the Army. Real genuine documents triumph all the time over theoretical, hypothetical assumptions about how things should, could, or would be, independent of whether you approve of them or not, Jan. I was almost fooled by a phony document (CHHumelsine) because it contained a reference to AR 380-5. It was an emulation of a real document >>>>3. With regard to the need for TS Control numbers I referred >>>>specifically to pages B-4 and B-5 in my "Final Report on >>>>Operation Majestic 12" since these 2 TOP SECRET Documents from >>>>Robert Cutler, which were found in the papers of General Nathan >>>>Twining at the LCMD, did _not_ have TS Control numbers. >>>>The two pages were ignored by Jan in his response. Instead he >>>>refers to pages E-11,E-12,E-13. These pages do make an >>>>important point since each has a different date format, >>>>contrary to the notion of Joe Nickell who objected to the EBE >>>>because its date format did not follow the government style >>>>manual. >>>1. B-4 and B-5 are not White House documents. They were, as you >>>say, found in the papers of General Twining. They are documents that originated in the White House office of Robert Cutler. They wound up in the office of General Twining. There were no TS control Numbers on them from either the sender or the recipient. >>Jan, you must need new glasses. Page B-5 is MEMORANDUM for >>General Twining, signed by Robert Cutler, Special Assistant to >>the President {for National Security} The stationery says THE >>WHITE HOUSE ,WASHINGTON at the top. I should think any >>reasonable person would accept that this is a White House >>document. Page B-4 is a copy of a memo for the sec. of Defense >>also from Robert Cutler though with a /s/prior to his name. This >>means original signed by Robert Cutler.Cutler worked at the >>White House. >Where did you find the document? In the Presidential library? No >in the Library of Congress in General Twining's papers. The >document originated in the White House, but was in Gen. >Twining's papers. For the purposes of accountability it is not a >White Document. Who had the document last? That is the >organization which is responsible for safegaurdiing. Upon receipt Twining's, office would have been responsible. Neither his office nor the White House put TS control numbers on them. Similarly and not suprisingly the CT memo has no TS control number. It really is too bad that this upsets you, Jan, but that is the way it is. >The exact point I made the documents at B-4 and B-5 were in Gen >Twining's papers. >>Whether you like it or not, both TOP SECRET documents originated >>from Robert Cutler at the White House and were received by >>General Twining.Perhaps you have forgotten that the infamous >>Cutler Twining document involved the same two people? One would >>think these two 1-page TOP SECRET documents might have some >>relevance to an evaluation of the one page TOP SECRET RESTRICTED >>Cutler Twining memo. Normally the originating office puts on >>classification markings. >Originated! The holding agency is responsible for accounting >for the document that would be Twinging or more properly the >USAF. So clearly there was no requirement for a TS control number because there is none on either B-4 or B-5. >>Note further that the last line in B-5 is "In order to avoid >>communication on this subject, it is understood that in the >>absence of contrary word your concurrence in the above >>arrangements is assumed".. The last line of the CT memo(found at >>the National Archives not the Lib. of Cong. Manusc. Div.) is >>"Your concurrence in the above changeof arrangements is >>assumed". >>>2. The items at page E-11, E-12, and E-13 are White House >>>documents that is, the last people to have custody of these >>>documents while they were classified was the White House. The >>>specific pages also contain no classified information but are >>>stamped Top Secret. One has as previous pointed out a TS control >>>number, while the other two do not, probably a clerical decision >>>to separate the transmittal letters from the classified material >>>in the latter case. I also gave several reasons why certain >>>pages or record included in folders or files might not have TS >>>control numbers. >>Basically the above comments are irrelevant to the problem at >>hand. As I noted in my "Final Report on Operation Majestic 12", >>they were included to demonstrate that an imporant official (DCI >>Dulles) sent three items to the White House within a 10 day >>period with 3 different date formats. Dr. Joe Nickell didn't >>like the EBD because it used a non standard date format. >Documents at E-11, E-12, E-13 are White House documents >originating with the CIA. They are not necessarily irrelavent. >They demonstrate that the White House did, in fact, use TS >control numbers. They also demonstrate that a document can be >marked TS and contain no TS information, i. e., a letter of >transmittal. Yes, of course. That is not relevant as to whether or not there would have to have been a TS control number on the CT memo since we have established that memos from Cutler to Twining did not all have TS control numbers, whether therein put in place by Cutler's or Twining's office. >>>>I will repeat once again that I cannot provide copies of the TOP >>>>SECRET RESTRICTED Documents noted by the GAO because they were >>>>still classified. I tried. >>>And Secret Restricted and Confidential Restricted? So there are >>>not examples of these to be had? > >>Again this is irrelevant, Jan. The CT memo is marked TOP SECRET >>RESTRICTED. The GAO referred specifically to TSR whether you >>like it or not. Their comment is good enough for me and >>establishes to any reasonable person that this classification >>was occasionally in use in the time period of interest. If I had >>supplied a ref. to Secret Restricted, you would say that doesn't >>prove there were TSR documents.Kind of a bait and switch >>technique isn't it, Jan? >No, Robert said there he had also seen Secret Restricted and >Confidential Restricted. I invited him to provide some. You >chopped up the message, no me. I still want to see some. >>>>But, Jan, since you have my report, please see pages B-4, and B- >>>>5 to add to your collection of genuine TS documents without TS >>>>control numbers. >>>But you had the answer, you just cut it out. These are >>>declassified documents, they are not seen in their original >>>context. >>THIS STATEMENT IS TOTALLY FALSE. If you will look at my report >>at pages B-4 and B-5, you will note that there are no >>declassification stamps on them. There is my hand written >>comment "Note: There is no declassification stamp ". Please get >>new glasses. >The glasses again. Well, Stan, what are you saying that you have >currently classified Top Secret documents. Maybe I should turn >these in to the FBI for security determination then? Go right ahead, Jan. The box was properly declassified. I have seen other instances where not all items in a declassified box are stamped.The point is the documents were pristine and without either declassification or TS control numbers. >No, my statement is not totally false. These documents are no >longer classified, i. e., they are declassified! No statement has >to appear on them. I have hauled away reams of former classified >documents from various archives with no declassified stamps on them. >>As a matter of factone of the funniest scenes I have >>seen during my many visits to a total of 19 Archives involved >>just this point. I was with a Japanese Film crew at the LCMD. >>They were not allowed to film in the reading room but wanted to >>film theoriginals of B-4 and B-5. I pointed ethe clerk who went to >>get them in the closed storage area to box 120, Eyes Only >>Folder. She came back and handed them to the woman in charge. who >>suddenly realized that while the box had been declassified, >>these two pages had not been. She dashed to her desk pulled out >>a declassification stamp and used it more than once on each >>document. Jan they were pristine. I of course had copied them >>during my earlier visit.Copies in my FRMJ are as made >>originally. Please note again that these two one page TS >>documents have no TS control numbers. >Now, who is loading up with irrelavent material. >Declassification schedules and directive determine >declassification. Not a stamp on a piece of paper. How these >documents were accounted for was in the context of how they were >filed and held when they were active documents. That is the crux >of the argument. When they were active documents they had no TS control numbers. >>The EBD is Copy One of One of a compartmentalized TOP SECRET >>MAJIC Eyes Only Document. It also, as to be expected for such a >>classification, has no TS control number. >>>However, I can trump anything you have said, I have a Top Secret >>>document that has not marking on it at all. No Top Secret, no >>>nuthin'. >>Sounds like a kid I knew who was bragging his father was tougher >>than anybody elses. Totally irrelevant. >Not irrelevant. Especial in this highly question envirnoment of >fake documents. Very important how accual documents are used as >template to create false one. However, in this case an actual >document available at an archives has been altered and shown to >the world as if it is a classified document direct from the CIA >vaults. >>>http://209.132.68.98/documents/pdf/hillenkoetter-menzel_sept1963.pdf > >>>I obtained my copy from the APL, it had no classified marking >>>and is otherwise completely clean. I like what the Woods have >>>done with it though, crude lettering of Top Secret and CIA Copy, >>>sooooh convincing. >>>Of course, there are a whole bunch of these things on the Woods' >>>website. They just have no shame whatsoever. They are still >>>pushing the Aquarius Briefing document fabricated with a cover >>>sheet used for high level correspondence so there were be no >>>smears or stray marks on important letters or items. How silly? >>>What is even sillier even after that has been demonstrated, >>>people still believe it and wasted time and money chasing it. >>>Looking at a review of the an MJ-12 presentation Bill Hamilton >>>said the one of the main objections to MJ-12 was the lack of TS >>>control numbers which the Woods had answered. >>>That is what the Woods would like people to think. One of the >>>main objections to MJ-12 that the MJ-12 people are incredibly >>>stupid, just less stupid that the three other birds in Bill >>>Moore's aviary, the Loon, the Cookoo, and the Turkey, birds who >>>swallow this kind of thing. Lack TS control numbers is one of >>>the more minor objections. >>>In SOM 1-01, MJ-12 proves that they don't know much about >>>technical intelligence, logistics, security, or even elementary >>>military operations. Nor do they know how to communicate the >>>information to the people who must carry out the operation. In >>>just 24 hours I listed over 50 objections to this silly >>>document. Most have stood up pretty well, but the Woods claim >>>they have countered all my objections. I have yet to see any >>>such refutations. >>>And, of course, Stan, you are still pushing this thing pretty >>>hard, also. >>Really, Jan? And where is that? >Why in Mike McDonald's production on Shag Harbor. There you are >over and over again with SOM 1-01! Or do I need new glasses >again? Maybe that wasn't you or SOM 1-01? I don't recall saying that I was convinced the document was genuine. I didn't edit the documentary. Maybe Don Ledger knows what I actually said.Probably something like it is in my gray box. >>I published a detailed >>refutation of the Tim Cooper MJ-12 documents in my MUFON 2000 >>paper "Roswell and the MJ-12.Documents in the New Millennium". >>More Bait and Switch, Jan. >Yes, you did. I was there remember? It is not bait and switch it >is a logical extention of the argument. I am not switching >anything. >>Yes, I cannot see any good reasons to >>say the EBD, CT, TF documents are false. I am working on a >>detailed review of Dr. Randle's new book "Case MJ-12" to note, >>as previously stated here, errors of omission and commission. >Well, I look forward to both. However, I find the whole MJ-12 >affair unconvincing. >>>Most of the other long MJ-12 documents have all kinds of place >>>or out of time errors in them, however, to point them out would >>>just give Cooper, Wood, and Wood criticism to do better in the >>>next set of documents. Jan I am not defending any of the Tim Cooper documents, long or short I am defending the EBD, TF, CT memos. Certainly nothing you have said refutes these. Certainly the GAO comments mean that the CT memo cannot be dismissed because of the TOP SECRET RESTRICTED security marking. And of course you and other critics have ignored all the positive side of the argument as noted in my Final Report, TOP SECRET/MAJIC and several other papers about MJ-12. >>>PS I just noticed this one. So stupid it is unbelievable. >>>http://209.132.68.98/documents/pdf/ipu_fieldorder.pdf >>>Hello, who signed the thing? Who do they contact when some >>>officer going by orders put out by the CofS to reduce all flying >>>to a minimum will not release fuel for their flight, hm? Just to >>>whom do they report? The secretary at the front desk? There are >>>other thing wrong with this document, it is like doing a >>>crossword. See how many stupid things you can come up with, >>>gentle reader? >>>Don't expect the Woods to come up with any! >>Nothing like changing the subject. We were talking about TS >>Control numbers not being on all White House documents... and >>the unusual TSR classification. Why not just admit you were >>wrong, Jan? Or is that asking too much? >Again, not changing the subject, extending it. Again, I stand by >what I said above. >Oh, and Stan, maybe, the reason you had trouble above, is that >your own glasses that need changing. Just a thought. Jan, I had no trouble above. You are the one who is evading the facts. Stan Friedman http://www.v-j-enterprises.com/sfpage.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 5 Plate With Alleged Alien Characteristics From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 04:51:14 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 11:59:51 -0500 Subject: Plate With Alleged Alien Characteristics Source: Pravda http://english.pravda.ru/main/2002/12/27/41449.html Stig *** 2002.12.27/14:52 Mysterious Plate ** In May 1992, we shot a documentary about UFO studies in Estonia. At the end, we had almost the whole day free, so my friend, who is a well-known ufologist in Estonia, proposed to visit an interesting place, as he called it. While we were driving through Tallinn, then along a country highway, my friend told me a real crime story. It started in the middle 60s. A dweller of a settlement which is not far from Tallinn, car mechanic Virgo Mitt, decided to dig a well in his yard. Everything was going OK. Though suddenly his spade knocked against some metal thing. Virgo tried to dig the thing out, though to no effect: this was a big, literally endless plate. Virgo found a paving breaker and tried to make a hole. The first level, which was very hard and thick. After it, there was another stuff, more structured (like nails). Virgo worked hard. In several dais, in the 1-1.5-inch plate, there was a good hole, which was enough for a well. Water started to swell too fast, so Virgo decided to refuse from his idea of the well and to fill the hole up. He threw almost all grit to the hole, though he kept a couple of the plate splinters, about 10 cm in diameter. One of them was later lost, while the other had an unusual fate. Virgo Mitt told about his find to his friend, who was a chemist. Therefore, this piece of metal was handed over to Tallinn Polytechnic Institute, while in 1969 it got to the table of Herbert Wijding, future deputy director of Estonian Geology Institute. This could have been the end of the story, though once an engineer touched the splinter. The hit was as big a powerful electric discharge: the engineer lost consciousness. Herbert Wijding was shocked: he held this splinter so many times! Of course, he could not neglect his mysterious fact. And he started his own investigation. Before sending the splinter to experts, he cut it in several thin plates. The scientists were surprised: in a very small example, they found 38 elements of the periodic system, most of which cannot coexist in nature. The example was not radioactive, though very magnetic. According to the conclusion of academician Obraztsov and professor Yelkin, this was a composite stuff armored with calcium-iron-silicon fibres, while its matrix was of metal glass. According to academician Kishkin, alloys like that are not known in aviation. Such alloy must be firm against heat and acids of any concentration. Specialists suppose this stuff was most likely created through powder metallurgy method under a very high pressure, which is impossible with today's level of science. Andrei Panasenko Object M Stavropol Translated by Vera Solovieva ** Related links: PRAVDA.Ru 3-D Map of the Earth created 120 millions of years ago. PRAVDA.Ru The map of "the Creator" =A91999 "Pravda.RU". When reproducing our materials in whole or in part, reference to Pravda.RU should be made.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 5 Re: Bob Young - Velez From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 23:14:02 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 12:01:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Bob Young - Velez >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 17:50:57 EST >Subject: Re: Bob Young >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 04:49:12 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Bob Young >>>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 18:15:33 EST >>>Subject: Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or Fact?' >>>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>>Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 13:49:10 -0500 >>>>Subject: Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or Fact?' ><snip> >>>>...and Budd Hopkins' abductees, John Mack's, Ray Fowler's, etc. >>>>How do all these men dare to believe what is being reported to >>>>them by people who they have determined (through investigation >>>>and after having spent countless hours with them ) to be >>>>credible individuals. >>>Because they are either believers, themselves, or are making a >>>career out of it. You may take your pick. These are two >>>possibilities. >>Another possibility is; that they are simply going where the >>data leads them. >John, >Yes, that is always a possibility. Hola Bob, I asked: >>If you have "investigated" abduction cases yourself, I would be >>very interested to hear the results of the data you gathered >>that has led you to believe that all the individuals you >>referred to are making theirs up. You responded: >As usuall, you are putting the entire world through the prism >of "the abductee". Perhaps it's because you claim to be one, >I don't know. Which doesn't even come close to answering my question. You have a habit of avoiding a direct response to direct/specific questions. 'Side-stepping' or 'dancing around' legitimate questions that are put to you (especially questions that are based on your own statements/proclamations) is _not_ an acceptable substitute for responding to them directly. Your 'response' to my question is an intellectual disconnect. Maybe it's a cognitive problem you have that I am unaware of. If that's the case, I will be happy to restate my question in a manner that will make it easier for you understand and respond to. If, on the other hand, you are simply trying to weasel out of giving me a direct answer by playing verbal 'sleight of hand' games, then I am rapidly losing all respect for you. >But, please review our previous discussion. Our discussion was >about abduction researchers. > >>>I've looking into so-called Abduction tales that wouldn't have >>>even existed if it weren't for the UFO investigators who were, >>>quite literally, creating the "data" that they thought they were >>>collecting. > >>Calling some one a liar in public is a very serious thing. > >Please put my entire sequence of postings through your search >engine and tell me if you find the word, "liar" anywhere. If you >do, I will personally apologize. Then an apology is definitely in order. You tell me, how many ways are there to interpret a comment like, "the UFO investigators who were, quite literally, creating the 'data.' " Your words. Every one knows that Budd and the others have not prefaced any of their books with the disclaimer that the content is made-up of fiction that they created themselves. They all present their data as non-fiction based on their own investigations. If you say that they are "making it up" and then presenting it as non-fiction, you are calling them liars. ie; presenting made up fantasy as reality. You can try to play 'Philadelphia lawyer' semantic games and claim that that is not what you meant or implied... but clearly, according to your own words, it is. >Then go to a dictionary and look up the meaning of the word, >"self-deception" I doubt that you will do this because you may >already know the answer. I'm not going to dignify this insult with a response other than to express how disappointed I am that you made it. >>I'm 'assuming' that you're calling them liars in this public >>forum (that they created the data) because you have proof of >>some kind that has convinced you that this is the case. >Once again, John, if you are going to put words into my mouth, >stop generating them yourself. Don't take this personally but, I hate people who choose to operate in 'grey areas' and play 'word games' because they don't have the character or the minerals (rocks) to speak plainly, directly. People who avoid accepting responsibility for what comes out of their mouths because they want to play it slick and have their cake and eat it too. When you say that someone is making up something they are presenting as fact, you are calling them a liar. The fact that such a statement may be cleverly worded does not alter the meaning or implication one iota. The difference lies in character and courage. You want to call Budd and the rest liars (which you have done) but you don't have the moxie to take responsibility for saying it, or to back it up when you're called on it. You resort to evasion and insult instead. That's just sad Bob. John Velez Sign the International Petition to the United Nations for disclosure of information pertaining to UFOs. http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 5 Re: Old Time Ufology Query - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 20:22:03 -0800 Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 12:03:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Old Time Ufology Query - Hatch >From: Andy Roberts <aj.roberts@blueyonder.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 11:56:05 -0000 >Subject: Old Time Ufology Query >Pilgrims, >A query some of you old timers (or those with massive amounts of >knowledge) may be able to help me with. >I've come across reference to the UK's alleged first UFO >conference. This was apparently held on Lusty Beg Island in >Northern Ireland, and was organised by Desmond Leslie and the >Countess of Erne. However, none of the two or three mentions I >can find give me the date. I _think_ it was 1968 but would like >the exact dates for further research. >This event was a sort of cross-over between the 'hippy' >ufological types such as Neil Oram, Craig Sams and others and >the contactee end of the market provided by Leslie. It rained >and ended in acrimony! It doesn't appear to be noted in FSR or >BUFORA publications for 66/67/68/69 and there are (to the best >of knowledge) only two references to it on the net. >Any one got any ideas? Hi Andy: If you could provide clickable links or URLs to the two web references you found, it might jog someone's memory and provide further leads. I usually only catalog UFO sightings; never conferences, discovered documents etc. Best - Larry
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 5 Re: Stan Romanek Case - Kelly From: Jim Kelly <Azredant@aol.com> Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 23:34:54 EST Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 12:06:32 -0500 Subject: Re: Stan Romanek Case - Kelly Since there has been much talk lately on this case for all those interested there is a article in the December/ January issue of UFO Magazine profiling this case. George Zeiler of MUFON is the main investigator and has chronicled a portrait of abduction, and quite possibly one of the best documented UFO sightings on record. On September 30, 2001, in Lakewood, Colorado, multiple witnesses sighted a ball like object glowing red, yellow, and apparently following a green van being driven by Stan Romanek. The object was estimated to be about 250 feet off the ground. Stan took video footage of it. The most interesting aspect to me is the video analysis done by Jeff Saino, who explains that the speed of the UFO decreased by 47 percent in a three-second period, the blinking of the object "was calculated at 8.26 blinks per second... humans have an upper limit of about 10 blinks per second for recognition, this behaivor excludes normal aircraft lighting, strobe lights or incandescent light filaments," Saino wrote. Romanek has had multiple experiences with UFO sightings. This incident was first reported to Peter Davenport. Jim Kelly MUFON AZ
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 5 'Las Vegas Weekly' Interviews Clonaid Vice From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 06:05:50 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 12:09:08 -0500 Subject: 'Las Vegas Weekly' Interviews Clonaid Vice Source: Las Vegas Weekly http://www.lasvegasweekly.com/2003/01_02/news_coverstory.html Stig *** Date: January 4, 2003 All About Eve A cloned baby, eternal life and a little something for the Vatican_a trip into the Raelian mind By Kate Silver =F2 Illustration by Benjamen Purvis ** The Revised Book of Genesis, version 1. 1:1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. 1:2 With the next six days came everything else: man, woman, light, dark, water buffalo, sharp cheddar cheese. 1:3 On the seventh day He rested. 1:4 And on the eighth day, a group of alien-worshipping scientists threw the natural order of things for a loop and successfully cloned a human baby. We've duplicated the Statue of Liberty, the Eiffel Tower, an Egyptian pyramid and now, supposedly, "Eve." Last week, Las Vegas resident Dr. Brigitte Boisselier claimed that the first human clone was delivered in a secret location, by cesarean, to the world, courtesy of the Raelians, a sect that believes life was created by aliens. But depending on whom you listen to, this 7-pound little girl's origins may be more giant fib than Adam's (or, in this case, her 31-year-old mother's) rib. Boisselier, our resident Raelian bishop and CEO of Clonaid_a cloning company started by Raelian founder Rael_had been talking up the impending birth for months, and two days after Christmas, held the news conference announcing that history had, indeed, been made. Her face took the news channels by storm as CNN, MSNBC, Fox and other major outlets broadcast the proclamation. If this had been something favorable to the religious community, the December 26 birth no doubt would have been termed "A Christmas Miracle." But to many, it's "A Christmas Curse." We're pretty tight, the sect and I. I've written about the Raelians and Clonaid for the past year and a half, so it wasn't an enormous shock when the calls and e-mails started coming in from Germany, Italy and France requesting information and pictures. As papers in Ireland, Nova Scotia and Ottawa picked up past stories from the Weekly, and Time magazine called to interview me, I couldn't help but look at the alien worshippers with a mixture of pride (awww, they're getting all this attention!) and shock (holy shit, they might have actually cloned a baby!). Like the rest of the world, I have no idea whether Eve actually exists. Though I've always written about the sect as a kind of novelty, I've always found that, beneath their shock value, the humanitarian views that the Raelians espouse are fairly appealing. Deep down, I believe the alien worshippers' baby- cloning claim. I think they have the money, resources and sheer desire to make a human clone. Deeper down, I question my gullibility_am I that easily duped? Either way, we won't have proof until sometime around January 5, when an alleged independent investigator is slated to present his findings (just how independent he is depends on what you read). So my Sunday morning interview with Clonaid Vice President and Raelian Priest Thomas Kaenzig felt in many ways like a television season cliffhanger. The Raelians are forever changed_whether Eve is a true clone or a hoax. I found my mind slipping into a flashback format, connecting Kaenzig's answers with a series of "best of the Raelians" memories that were tucked away. It went a little something like this. Las Vegas Weekly: What can you tell me about Eve? Thomas Kaenzig: Eve is doing very well. She's very healthy and the parents are very happy about having her. It's an infertile couple, and for many years they wanted to have a baby, and they're very happy to have it now. And they're excited, and obviously also concerned about the outrage it has created in some places of the world, and in some people's mind, so our main concern is obviously the baby's health and safety, but it's also the family's health and safety. Flashback Kindness. Those Raelians are full of humanitarianism, always looking to make life better for others, and to me, that's always made them likable. I first met the Raelians in April 2001. The Weekly staff was compiling topics to explore in a UFO issue, and the group came up in an Internet search. I assumed they were a group of local kooks, an interesting story. I met with Ricky Roehr, president of the U.S. branch of Raelians, and Nadine Gary, the P.R. flack_both are Las Vegas residents. They were wearing a lot of white and offered me a white plate of perfectly shaped cookies, which were neatly centered on a doily. Nice folks. Ricky laid out their beliefs that day, and I realized they weren't as kooky as I'd expected. Humans were created by an advanced race of people, the Elohim, meaning "those who come from the sky"_aliens. Raelians believe the phrase "those who come from the sky" was misinterpreted in ancient religious texts to mean "God." The religion officially began in 1973, when the Elohim contacted French journalist Rael, and has grown to about 50,000 practitioners worldwide. Raelians revere technology, which they say is the key to our advancement. They hope that through science we can eradicate disease and make life enjoyable for everyone. Cloning is their ultimate goal, and they see it as the key to eternal life. Boiled down to the basics, their theology isn't that different from other religions: belief in a mysterious life-giving entity, a drive to improve the Earth for yourself and those around you, and the pursuit of some kind of afterlife. The difference lies in the terms: God is replaced by aliens and heaven is switched with cloning. The bonuses of their religion: Raelians are big fans of sex and indulgence, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone. LVW: Are you getting any threats with the announcement of Eve? TK: Yes, many. We've received death threats almost every hour. It can be anything from "You should be dead" or "God will punish you" and "May you die," and anything from the most stupid thing you could read. But I was expecting, we've received death threats before. What we're doing questions mainly conservative religious views of some fanatics and zealots and they are unhappy about it. The world is changing and they can adapt or fall a step behind. That's their problem. LVW: If Eve is introduced to the public, I would be afraid religious zealots would kill her. TK: Yes, that's why we, at this stage, there's no question that we would go public and present the baby. We would have probably one of those fanatics walking with a bomb, and especially in the United States, where people put bombs in abortion clinics, you can guess what it will be for cloning. So we don't want to take that risk at all. We're interested in helping the people, and if we can show pictures or present Eve and the family, that's fine. But in the end, that's their decision, not ours. In the end, their life and their safety is most important, and only they, themselves, can decide that. Flashback It's not just fanatics, zealots and religious conservatives who take issue with the Raelians and cloning. More than a year ago, I attended a class at the Community College of Southern Nevada where the Raelians made a guest appearance. Roehr spoke about cloning and how, someday, their goal is to clone a full-grown adult into whom they can download a healthy person's memory and personality, and, eventually, eradicate disease and offer eternal youth. One young woman in the class insisted that she didn't want to live forever. Had no desire to go on ad infinitum. Roehr suggested that she was associating living forever with being old and that, through cloning, living forever could be enjoyable. The woman grew emotional, almost teary, emphasizing that she Didn't. Want. That. The argument seemed to last longer than eternal life itself, with neither budging. Finally, Roehr relented and told the young woman that no one would have to be cloned. It wasn't a requirement. LVW: All of the reports in the media talk about the Raelian religion like it's a silly, farfetched belief system. What's your response to that? Don't you view the dominant world religions in the same way? TK: Oh, of course, yes. In this country, 90 percent of people believe in God. I`ve never seen God. I think that's even more far-fetched, but there are millions of people who have seen UFOs, who know that there's people out there in space, and who ask themselves the questions, "Who are those people, and what do they want here on Earth, and why are they here, and what kind of message are they sending us, and why do we have so many UFO sightings, why do we have so many crop circles?" Somebody comes up with a concept of God and soul, it makes me laugh much more. I've been an atheist all my life, and there's no sense saying, "Oh, it made me laugh to see people believe in something with no proof or indication whatsoever." That's fine, may they do so. But when they make a comment about us, they better think twice. Flashback One day, soon after the attacks of 9/11, Ricky was speaking to a small group of Muslim boys about the Raelian religion. "We respect everyone's beliefs," Roehr said. "We're not here to convince you of anything, because that's not respectful." As Kaenzig noted, Raelians are rarely granted the same respect. If you've seen any coverage of the recent news, you know descriptions of their beliefs are colored with phrases like "little green men." Imagine if the Associated Press one day described "a big, imaginary guy who knows everything and judges whether you're good enough to go float on a cloud or bad enough to grow horns and hold a pitchfork." That's how the Raelians think of the Christian concept of God. LVW: What do you say to people who think this is a hoax? TK: There's been skepticism around since the beginning and there will always be skeptics [laughs]. May they think what they want. We're happy we can help the people and help the families involved. May the skeptics think what they want. We said we will provide proof by an independent expert that the clone is indeed a clone of the cell donor, and if they don't believe that, well, that's their problem [laughs]. Flashback In October, I met Dr. Brigitte Boisselier for the first time. At the Bellagio, over oversized cups of overpriced beverages, she told me that in April they had implanted 10 women with cloned DNA, and they had 20 more lined up. After practicing on thousands of cow eggs since the company started in 1997, she told me that the first cloned human would be born sometime around the beginning of the New Year. She addressed people's fears of cloning, emphasizing that there may be a ban imposed on it by the United Nations, and while it's not illegal in the United States, the FDA must approve any human trials. Boisselier said that, as with all new technologies, as people grow used to the idea of cloning, they will become more accepting. "There is the fear and there is the response of people in the government. The public has been educated with very bad Hollywood pictures talking about defects, armies of clones, and that's what people have in mind when they think about clones," she said. "They are not thinking about someone who has lost a child and would like to have their baby twin. So the way people are looking at it is because they don't have the education." But as long as the Raelians withhold proof that they've actually created a clone, it's more comfortable_more fathomable, anyway_to think of it as a hoax. Rick Ross, who runs a website documenting the activities of cults and other controversial groups, has been charting Raelian activities for years, and insists Eve is just a cry for attention. "I will be shocked if this turns out to be anything but a hoax for free publicity," he writes in an e-mail interview with the Weekly. "Clonaid appears to be little more than another publicity stunt conceived by Rael to promote his name, group and possibly the for-profit cloning company. The only thing that frightens me is that CNN considered this worthy of a live news report and `press conference' that offered nothing but Ms. Boisselier making unsubstantiated claims. It came across like an infomercial." Not everyone has taken it so calmly. Politicians, religious leaders, scientists and ethicists around the world are incensed. The Vatican released a statement saying, "The announcement in itself is an expression of brutal mentality, devoid of any ethical and human consideration." Rabbis and Muslim clerics joined the religious condemnation, while President Bush and French President Jacques Chirac pushed for a global ban on human cloning. The American Society of Reproductive Medicine released a statement expressing their doubt. "We must be sure that clonal pregnancy is, first, possible and, second, safe in humans. Thus far, we don't have evidence for either." LVW: How do you respond when people say this is immoral, you're making creatures who don't have a soul? TK: First of all, it makes me laugh. It's the kind of answer and comments you get from people like George Bush, who has been throwing bombs all over the planet and killing many people. He's been putting so many people on death row, and he's saying cloning is dangerous and it's unethical. It's ridiculous. Cloning is pro-life, it's giving life, it's a big hope for many people out there. There's reproduction cloning, which can help many infertile couples, homosexuals, people with AIDS. There's therapeutic cloning, stem- cell research, providing so many people with artificial organs, it will help people in a wheelchair to walk again one day. _ Some people ask us, "Are you playing God?" And I always tell them "Yes, I'm very happy about playing God, if it's for the benefit of mankind." Anybody, everything we have today, this phone interview right now, would never happen without science, without technology. Everything in the world we have today is thanks to science, and that's the only way to progress, to help people and to make this world a better world. Flashback The Raelians are pacifists. The aliens will not come visit their children on Earth (that's us) until we have achieved peace, they say. Soon after the attacks of 9/11, they held a meeting at the East Flamingo Library blaming monotheism for most of the world's problems. "The truth of the matter is that this belief in a single and almighty God is the very cause of the greatest tragedies that humanity has known," reads Rael's statement. "From the colonization of Europe by Muslims through the Crusades, the wars of religion, the Inquisition, Nazism, up until today with the wars between Pakistan and India, Cypress, Ireland, Kosovo, the Middle East, everywhere, it's always in the name of an Almighty God that people tear each other to pieces and kill one another." Their solution, to censor from all religious texts any reference to violence, was not exactly viable, but a nice change from the president's battle cry, nonetheless. Some other statements they've issued recently illustrate their progressive attitude and, uh, unique sense of humor: =F2 Last August, on the anniversary of the bombing of Hiroshima: "The U.S. government, under the guise of saving lives, killed 300,000 civilians and that, by definition, is terrorism," Roehr said. "Let a spade be called a spade." =F2 In September, Rael suggested that parents give their teens condoms, because they're going to have sex whether they're protected or not. =F2 In October, the Raelians announced they were suing the Vatican for covering up for pedophile priests and paying millions to silence victims. =F2 And in November, they proclaimed that when Rael dies, he wants his body coated in plastic and exposed at UFOLand (the Raelian theme park in Canada) "naked, half-skinned with an erection, and in a seated meditation position. Rael adds: "I've spent my life battling against prejudice and taboos generated by the Catholic Church and I'm delighted to carry on after my death." LVW: What's the next step? TK: Once everybody's gotten some sleep, it's going to be to offer the service on a worldwide basis and help as many people as possible. And the next step is to create adult clones and in the end be able to transfer personalities and memories and have eternal life. That's still far away. It'll happen sooner than most people think, but it's not going to happen tomorrow. Right now we focus on reproduction cloning and offer it on a worldwide basis. Flashback They had offered to clone me already. Not in such direct terms, of course, but they'd certainly tested the waters_and my resolve. "Kate, will you accept eternal life?" It was a fairly complex question, asked by PR rep Nadine Gary at one of their meetings, a little over a year ago. I can still see her looking at me expectantly, as though she was offering me the world. I guess in Raelian terms, she was. We needed some boundaries. "I'm not so sure how I feel about that," I whispered back, and the subject was dropped. I continued respecting their beliefs, they continued respecting my nonbeliefs, and I have a feeling that the offer still stands, should I ever choose to take them up on it. LVW: When that starts happening, and people have eternal life, won't the Earth be severely overpopulated? TK: That's a question politicians should ask themselves now, is once we master eternal life, the technology behind it, who will have access to it? That's a good question. Maybe we will solve it the same way it was solved by the Elohim, those extraterrestrials who created life on Earth. They also have eternal life on their planet, and it's only [for] people who did a lot of positives for their society, be it physically or medically or by their invention, who deserve eternal life. In the end it's a number game. This planet cannot hold an infinite number of people [laughs]. But if you applied a simple rule saying you can have eternal life but you can't have children, the numbers still match. It will be a personal decision. Flashback Last April, Clonaid announced its willingness to clone Count Dracula's last known relative (actually, his name is Ottomar Rudolphe Vlad Dracul Kretzulesco, and he's related to Vlad the Impaler, upon whom Bram Stoker based the original Count Dracula). The good count had recently announced his desire to adopt a child of "noble origin" to carry on his lineage, and Clonaid stepped up to the plate. I asked for an update in October, wondering if the little sucker could be on his way, and was firmly told they were still in "negotiations." They wouldn't let me see Eve, either. LVW: What else would you like to address? TK: If we talk about human cloning, don't think about monsters or Frankenstein, think of the people who will benefit from this technology and think of the big hope that many, many people do have through this technology. I always tell people, if you're against cloning, that's fine. But at least let those people who want to have access to it, let them have access to it. That's really the most important for us. The Revised Book of Genesis, version 1.1 1:1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. 1:2 With the next six days came everything else: man, woman, light, dark, water buffalo, sharp cheddar cheese. 1:3 On the seventh day He rested. 1:4 And on the eighth day, a group of alien- worshipping scientists told an almost Biblical epic of cloning intrigue, only to find that the world's not ready to hear about genetically altered apples plucked from a manmade tree of knowledge, for fear that they taste rotten. ** LAS VEGAS WEEKLY: ARTS // ENTERTAINMENT // CULTURE + EVERYTHING THAT MATTERS All contents =A9 1998 - 2003 Radiant City Publications, LLC
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 5 Re: Atmosphere Makes Sirius Dance - Olmos From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos@yahoo.es> Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 14:58:36 +0100 (CET) Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 12:23:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Atmosphere Makes Sirius Dance - Olmos >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 18:25:32 EST >Subject: Re: Atmosphere Makes Sirius Dance >>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 14:54:32 -0400 >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Atmosphere Makes Sirius Dance >>>Source: The San Diego Union Tribune >>>http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/science/20030101-9999_1c1star.html >>>Atmosphere Makes The Stars And Planets Dance >>>By Dennis L. Mammana >>>January 1, 2003 ><snip> >>And here I've been wasting my time all these years when the >>answer was right in front of my eye. Why haven't I read about >>this before? >Hi, Don: >Because you stopped actually reading my posts about astronomical >IFOs. ><snip> >>Talk about recycling old and useless garbage. Shades of Don >>Adams it's "the old shifting atmoshphere trick" itself a rarity >What? Twinkling stars a rarity? Not only must you not read my >most valuable posts but you must never actually look up. >>but yet according to Mammana it acounts for most UFO sightings. >>You'll note that he fails to inform that this abberation start >>movement] occurs over very small areas but I suppose if you >>throw in occular scintillation >You've made up this one. >>and Venus reflecting off swamp gas >And this. >>and snow crystals when the Moon is in the Seventh house it's >>possible. Hi, Listmembers, In reality, I would say most European researchers do not see any reason for strong disagreement, because ultimately both Don and Bob are right. It is a fact (who can dismiss it?) that an extremelly high number of sightings are astronomical IFOs, it is the simple A,B,C of ufology. We all know that, but new generations can perfectly be unaware of it, therefore it is far from useless that this fact is aired because of its educational effect. Having said that, we also know that only astronomical IFOs can=B4t explain the UFO phenomena 100%. This is another fact. There are a number of cases unexplained (0.1%, 10%, that=B4s not really important), the case is that there are some cases that apparently defy any explanation (I will not judge if it is due to poor investigation or faulty analytical interpretation or it is due to their own, intrinsic causes). It is on these few cases we should strive to invest our research work. And this should be a combined effort from both sides of the spectrum, the total skeptics, the total believers (both postures are worth of respect!), as well as the middle-field researchers (most Europeans included here, I would say). I am fortunate to enjoy common work and friendship with guys from the right and the left (both in ufology and politics, by the way), it is a healthy exercise. Sometimes I feel sad to see here bitter disputes between absolute luminaries from both sides. For 2003 onwards, may I call for a common ground? There is one, believe me, and it will help to advance our knowledge of what the UFO phenomenon is. Best wishes, V-J
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 5 Re: UFO Capital Of 'The Northern Territory' - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 22:15:20 -0800 Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 12:25:40 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Capital Of 'The Northern Territory' - Hatch >From: Tom Bowden <tomrbowden@yahoo.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 13:53:10 -0800 (PST) >Subject: Re: UFO Capital Of 'The Northern Territory' >>From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 12:21:12 +0100 >>Subject: UFO Capital Of 'The Northern Territory' >>Source: Yahoo! India News >>http://in.news.yahoo.com/030102/139/1znvz.html >>Stig >>*** >>Thursday January 2, 3:05 PM >>The right place to be in when a UFO passes through >>** >>Washington, Jan 2 (ANI): The UFO capital of the Northern >>Territory in USA may soon become the UFO capital of >>the world. With the laying of railway tracks in the >>Springs-Darwin area next week, experts believe there will >>be a dramatic rise in UFO sightings. ><snip> >This is very confusing. Can anyone tell where in the world this >place is? It seems they are talking about Australia. Do >Australians customarily use the abbreviation "USA" in reference >to their nation? >Tom B. Hi Tom: Geographical illiteracy is not strictly confined to the USA. This article was from India News, and I suppose somebody simply mixed up place names. The dateline, "Washington" further confuses matters. Australia does have some similarities to the USA. If you flip over a map of the 48 contiguous states, (top over bottom, _not_ left to right) it vaguely resembles Australia. The Cape York peninsula of Queensland would make a sort of "Florida", political conservatives and all. They call their alligators "crocodiles", and the flip-over might explain driving on the wrong side of the road. Both nations have vast desert areas to the West, with Ayers Rock partly compensating for the missing mass of the U.S. Grand Canyon. They both speak English, dine on cows and sheep, drink lots of beer .. Its easy to imagine somebody from (say) India confusing the two countries. Best wishes - Larry Hatch
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 5 Re: Comments From Roswell UFO Museum - Gates From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 04:18:14 EST Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 12:28:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Comments From Roswell UFO Museum - Gates >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 22:47:00 -0400 >Subject: Comments From Roswell UFO Museum >What follows was sent by Julie Shuster, Director of the Roswell >International UFO Museum and Research Center and I believe >deserves to be seen on this List because of all the discussion >about Roswell related matters. >STF <snip> Julie Shuster, Director of the Roswell UFO Museum was wrote: >Unfortunately, what I have also seen is the fact that greed and >ego is very rampant among the "researchers" in this field. It was apparently on the minds of some of the so called Roswell witnesses as well. >Statements are posted on this List as well as other places that >may or may not be true and they are not questioned. Being born >and raised in Roswell, I have known many of the people who were >involved in the Roswell Incident all of my life. This was and >basically still is a small community. We are close knit. We >generally stick together. Comments made by "serious researchers" >that people in Roswell are "dupes" because we are from Roswell, I don't know of any "serious researchers" that have made the comment that the people in Roswell are "dupes." Please elaborate on this accusation you make. >NM and not the big city really shows the ignorance of the person >making that kind of statement. If you "serious researchers" ever >took the time to find out about the strength, political and >otherwise, and wealth of this area you would be shocked. We >rival many big cities and have since the beginning. >As for the recent "revelations" about Frank Kaufmann, I find the >attacks personal. The people writing to this List and articles >elsewhere do not now or ever have known Frank Kaufmann. They do Bottom line is neither did the people in Roswell know Frank Kaufman. Although Frank may have been a sweet loveable guy to the folks in Roswell, the fact remains that he lied about his service record and lied about other things with his story. This was apparently known by, and admited by Frank to some researchers as far back as 1999. I think Kaufman's widow is a very courageous person to let the the people have the documents and to allow the truth to be told. I would think that the museum would be thrilled that bogus and fake storys can be eliminated out of the mix. >not know Glenn Dennis and Walter Haut or the others involved in I have no problems with Walter Haut's story. As I understand it at some point we will have additional information that Walt was a witness to...information that he did not disclose to anyone, other then the Oral History Interview. It occurs to me that Glenn Dennis shot himself in the foot by not providing the correct name of the nurse that is part of his story. Last I recall he has provided around 4 names none of which can be verified anywhere and has now taken the position that he knows the real name but not disclosing it. >the incident. And for that matter, when was the last time any of >these "serious researchers" were in Roswell for anything. As >director of the museum, a Roswell native, friend of these As I recall many serious researchers desended upon Roswell for the 50th anniversary party in 1997, not to mention the annual events. That dog doesn't hunt. >gentlemen and their families and the daughter of one of the key >players, I find the actions and comments of the critics >appalling and self serving. Attack the information that you >receive legitimately and can verify, but do not ever personally >attack these men of character and dignity. They have served >Roswell, the military and their families long and hard. They had >lives before the incident and continue to have lives after. Read the book called Stolen Valor where it is documented that people who served in the military claimed to people/family members and locals in their community that they were awarded medals that they did not in fact receive, or served on missions and service that they never did. What is the museums position on people who tell one story, then after getting some kind of financial inducement or whatever, tell a different story...or even tell a third story? Naturally all the storys are claimed to be the correct one. We have 4-6 various crash sites...and the list goes on. The facts still remains (no matter how unliked they may be) that Kaufmans tale is fabricated, a portion of his military record was fabricated, Glenn still won't name the nurse, the closest we can place Mogel to the scene at the very, very, very best is 17 or so miles, not to mention others have demonstrated that the Mogel data used by Mogelites was either error, or hoaxed, and we still haven't found the jewel encrusted helmet. The list goes on and on. Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 5 Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - Lemire From: Todd Lemire <tlemire@comcast.net> Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 12:45:40 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 12:34:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - Lemire >From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 16:40:21 -0000 >Subject: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? >Jenny Randles wrote an excellent article for EYE magazine, which >is now up at their website at: >http://www.hufos1.karoo.net >It is quite critical of ufology, but does make some suggestions >as to the way forward. Just to give you a taste, read the >following quote: >"So UFOlogy will never go back to the way it was. It has changed, >forever, and the UFO community that once controlled what was said >and done has lost the say in its own subject. Indeed, UFOlogists >have almost become an irrelevance - at best lumbering behind a >litany of advertisers,hype merchants, web site designers, and >sci-fi entrepreneurs." >So, is ufology dead, or just dozing? >Joe Joe and others, I find it interesting that this thread deals with: 'web' based research in all it's forms, 'web' based access to this research, the threat the 'web' poses to 'standard ufology' as some 'oldtimers' see it, the networking that the 'web' provides between researchers - both good and bad, the pros and cons of the lecture circuit, the quality of this 'web' based content, the possibility of creating an 'International Authority', and so on.... and so on.... and so on... and scooby dooby do!, yet there seems to be no discussion of what I perceived to be the main points of Jenny's article that, "UFOlogy must go back to basics and treat this as a phenomenon in need of explanation, rather than an explanation in search of any evidence to support it." As some here agree, the 'web' is already here and will be here for many more years. As Jenny states in her article, "All UFOlogists are BECOMING part of an interacting community via the net and this is what needs to be exploited."... "It simply needs coordination and mobilization." The key discussion in this thread, in my opinion, should've been, exploitation, coordination, and mobilization, rather than what I perceived to be how much of a 'threat' the web poses to 'paper and lecture' ufology. None on the 'lecture circuit', and very few on this list can do as Jenny says and ..."prove rational objectivity and a desire to stay out of the public limelight." The 'web' should be, among other things, a "diagnostic tool" for the ufologist, as Jenny suggests, which has the ability of... "suggesting options to be investigated during a sighting." I would've liked to have seen some website suggestions in this thread that supported this, but are there any? I can't, off the top of my head, think of a UFO website that _focuses_ on both 'investigative resources' and 'sighting reports'. Where are these comprehensive ufo sites that provide ready access to both? I didn't see any discussion regarding the necessary steps and requirements to develop such a site. I also didn't see any discussion of what I perceive to be an important part of Jenny's article, "active research... of a window area". Jenny states that, "We are far too passive as a movement - waiting for Joe Bloggs..." If not used correctly and in the right amounts the 'web' can be a serious detriment to the 'proactive research' she speaks of. How many of you actually step away from the pc long enough to go out in the field to investigate a _current_ case, much less do a 'window' project? Not very many of us. There are a few good beginnings to what she speaks of as far as sighting databases are concerned and most here are already aware of these, but we are still lacking the "interactive community", the "coordination and mobilization", as well as the "diagnostic tools" and resources that Jenny speaks of. She hit the nail on the head not only as it concerns British ufologists but American ones as well. Some may require a 'spoonful of sugar' to help the medicine go down. Todd Lemire
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 5 Re: C.E.: Interesting UFO Photos/Story - Lemire From: Todd Lemire <tlemire@comcast.net> Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 13:48:43 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 12:36:32 -0500 Subject: Re: C.E.: Interesting UFO Photos/Story - Lemire >From: Tom Bowden <tomrbowden@yahoo.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 22:08:47 -0800 (PST) >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: C.E.: Interesting UFO Photos/Story >>From: Chaz Stuart <Daydisk2@WEBTV.NET> >>To: CURRENT-ENCOUNTERS@LISTSERV.AOL.COM >>Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 01:17:57 -0500 >>Subject: Interesting UFO Photos/Story >>This _seems_ to be legit..... >>Go to: http://www.mccurtain.com/mthermanufo.htm >Someone should take a closer look at the three photographs and >try to enlarge the blue object. In the first two photos, I >suspect a lens-flare or "sun dog". The third looks more >interesting. I have never seen anything like the cloud anomaly, >but when you talked to the weather person, you should have asked >if they had any doppler radar images for that area which showed >any high-energy weather affects. Could some kind of clear-air >turbulence cause such a cloud formation? >As for the childrens orange ball seen right at sunset, I >suspect a "sun dog" reflected off unusual cloud formations at >sunset. Without some other corroborating evidence, there is not >much to go on. >The best image is the third photo. You should focus your effort >on analyzing that one. Tom and others, Take a look here: http://www.michiganufos.com/images/MichiganFermiII.jpg This is also a digital photo. Take a look here http://www.michiganufos.com/images/17831789r.jpg Here are more of those mysterious 'blue balls'. I would bet 90 to nothing these are digital lens flares. The story behind these photos can be found here: http://www.michiganufos.com/nuclearfacilityufos.html Todd Lemire
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 5 Re: Frank Kaufmann Exposed - Hutchinson From: Bruce Hutchinson <bhutch@grassyhill.com> Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 14:11:42 -500 Fwd Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 12:40:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Frank Kaufmann Exposed - Hutchinson >From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 15:00:25 -0800 >Subject: Re: Frank Kaufmann Exposed >>From: Bruce Hutchinson <bhutch@grassyhill.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 11:17:35 -500 >>Subject: Re: Frank Kaufmann Exposed - Hutchinson >>>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net> >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 18:02:05 -0800 >>>Subject: Re: Frank Kaufmann Exposed >David, List and Readers; ><snip> >>>...Trakowski's replacement as Mogul Project Officer was Col. >>>Edward Doty, who we know today from multiple documents, was >>>really an AFOSI officer (i.e., Air Force counterintelligence) >>>and also in charge of UFO investigations at Holloman AFB, >>>Alamogordo. >>In checking through the information I have at hand, I cannot >>find a single document that supports your rather sweeping claim >>of "multiple documents" supporting your accusation that Col >>Edward Doty was connected officially to the AFOSI. <snip> >>I suspect that because Doty's name appears on the Project >>Twinkle Final Report, you feel that this just _has_ to connect >>Doty to CI. You know, ...of course, that Project Twinkle was >>carried out separately from Project Blue Book. In fact, Project >>Twinkle was carried out under the Air Force's geophysical >>research program, a large part of which was handled by the Air >>Force Cambridge Research Laboratory (AFCRL), which later was >>renamed the Air Force Geophysics Laboratory and which today is >>known as Phillips Laboratory. >The information that Doty was OSI came from Leonard >Stringfield's Status Report #6, based on the Project Twinkle >summaries plus information from a witness who said Doty was also >in charge of security at Holloman. >The Twinkle summaries do defnitely state that Doty assumed >responsibility for Holloman UFO investigations sometime in 1951. >He and Dyvad took the UFO report from Corona on July 11, 1951. By >the time of discussions with Doty on Aug. 27, 1951, it was stated >that that Doty was "thoroughly acquainted with the situation." >It also clearly states that he was to continue to collect and >review reports and maintain liaison with AFOSI. Doty's 1959 >letter to the Holloman base historian mentioned none of this, >only his connection to the balloon projects. >At the very least he was in charge of UFO investigations at >Holloman starting in 1951 and reported to AFOSI, even if he >wasn't AFOSI. What do you have that establishes a "report" structure to the AFOSI? As you very clearly pointed out, Doty was to maintain a _liason_ with the AFOSI, which is to be expected due to Twinkle. But he reported only to his superiors within the AFCRL. It would appear that you are just trying to build some sort of "sinister link" between Doty and AFOSI. There wasn't. >Upon review, I would have to agree this doesn't demonstrate that >Doty was with OSI, as Stringfield claimed, but he did >unquestionably investigate on their behalf and report to them. Unquestionably? As you are unable establish any formal links between Doty and the OSI, it would seem that there would be a _lot_ of questions with that sort of claim. >>In Air Force historical reports, Major Edward Doty is credited >>with having created the Balloon Branch at Holloman AFB (formerly >>Alamogordo Army Air Field) almost singlehandedly. Major Doty >>also worked on Project Mogul (or Mogul-like) experiments at >>Holloman AFB at least as late as 1951. He carried out a lot of >>the scientific field work at Holloman for the AFCRL. >My, what a fountain of arcane information you are today. I've >never known you to personally research anything in depth, instead >regurgitating what others have written or playing front man for >them. Who are you playing front man for today Bruce? This sounds >like something Tim Printy would have written, not you. Does it matter whether this "arcane information" comes from personal digging or the work of others? The point here is that you are attempting to make Doty yet another pawn in your sinister conspiracy. He wasn't. >>Major Edward Doty undoubtedly worked with AFOSI personnel during >>the Project Twinkle investigations, but Doty himself was _not_ a >>member of AFOSI, and I doubt that you can produce an authentic, >>official, Air Force record showing that he was ever assigned to >>AFOSI. You can- and did- make some unwarranted assumptions, but >>that hardly justifies such sweeping statements of "fact" based >>on absurdly weak evidence. >>And as a side note, your site erroneously claims Edward Doty was >>the father of Richard Doty. (Richard has also claimed -falsely- >>that Edward was his uncle!) You need to correct that. >Richard Doty told people like Bruce Maccabee and Philip Klass >that Edward Doty was his father. He told Robert Todd that Edward >Doty was his uncle. Before I "correct" this, perhaps you can >enlighten us to the true relationship of the two Dotys and how >you know this for a fact. Instead of asking Richard again, Robert Todd thought it might be interesting to talk to Edward instead! Edward Doty told Todd that he had never even met Richard, let alone fathered him. There is no relationship between the two men except the coincidence of their last names. >If I am wrong about Doty being AFOSI (as it currently appears I >am), I have no problems making the necessary corrections. I do >strive to be accurate. >Perhaps you can tell your pal/ghostwriter Tim Printy to do >likewise on his webpage concerning Charles Moore's Flight 4 >trajectory hoax and alternation of the Flight 5 map. He's still >claiming I got this all wrong and Moore is an innocent. Well, as it happens, you _did_ get it all wrong!! In your original "proof", you clearly failed to understand how Moore used the table, and you made a number of obviously faulty assumptions based on these mistakes. Tim's site very clearly addresses these. As a result of Tim's page, you and Sparks were forced to back to your spreadsheets to come with another theory. You can (and I predict you will) spin this any way you want, but it is all quite obvious to anyone that reads both sites, and does not need to be re-hashed ad nauseum here. BTW: Your later theories - the ones that Tim Printy forced you and Sparks to develop - do present some interesting anomolies that Moore's book does not address. They are interesting, but hardly proof that Moore was under the direction of the Great Conspiracy. Tim Printy's site does not claim Moore used the data correctly- Tim only demonstrates how Moore developed his graph, which was something you obviously needed to know. Second- you have yet to address your repeated mis-representations of Moore's writings. We are all curious as to why you felt that was so necessary. I won't go through them here, but interested readers can look at Tim Printy's pages for details. http://members.aol.com/tprinty2/rudiak.html and http://members.aol.com/timprinty/myhomepage/flight4.html Regards, Bruce Hutchinson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 6 Re: UFO Capital Of 'The Northern Territory' - From: Diane Harrison <auforn@hypermax.net.au> Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 08:19:54 +1000 Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 12:47:26 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Capital Of 'The Northern Territory' - >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 12:21:12 +0100 >Subject: UFO Capital Of 'The Northern Territory' >Source: Yahoo! India News >http://in.news.yahoo.com/030102/139/1znvz.html >Stig >*** >Thursday January 2, 3:05 PM >The right place to be in when a UFO passes through >** Hi guys is someone having fun with this news report <G> >Washington, Jan 2 (ANI): The UFO capital of the Northern >Territory in USA may soon become the UFO capital of the world. Should this read: The UFO capital of the Northern Territory in Australia may soon become the UFO capital of the world? I know you guys love our Island but its still ours for now [smile} . -- Regards Diane Harrison National Director of The Australian UFO Research Network Australian Skywatch Director ~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<> THE AUSTRALIAN UFO RESEARCH NETWORK (A Non-Profit Organization) E-Mail: auforn@hypermax.net.au E-mail: ufologist@hypermax.net.au http://www.hypermax.net.au/~auforn ADMINISTRATION: PO Box 738 Beaudessert 4285 QLD Australia Tel 07 55 44 6888 ~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<> Australian UFO Research Network Hotline Number 1800 77 22 88 Freecall ~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 6 The Strange Case Of The Suffolk Spaceship From: Roy Hale <roy.hale@ntlworld.com> Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 01:34:30 -0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 12:51:43 -0500 Subject: The Strange Case Of The Suffolk Spaceship Hi All, Just in case this slipped past your eyes! http://www.independent.co.uk/story.jsp?story=358248 Roy..
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 6 Levengood Credentials From: Dave Haith <visions@ntlworld.com> Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 01:51:40 -0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 12:59:33 -0500 Subject: Levengood Credentials Following the correspondence below on UFO UpDates from Jim Spieser (JJS) I emailed Nancy Talbott of the BLT Research Team about Levengood and the controversy. I reproduce her letter of reply to me below in its entirety with her full permission in the hope that it will clarify this matter once and for all. Regards Dave Haith ----- From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 13:53:34 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 16:14:44 -0500 Subject: Re: Phony Credentials? - Speiser >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 12:26:11 -0500 >Subject: Re: Phony Credentials? >>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 23:48:40 EST >>Subject: Re: Phony Credentials? >>>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:40:43 -0700 >>>Subject: Phony Credentials? [was: Re: Frank Kaufmann Exposed] >><snip> >>>Unfortunately, to this list it now appears we may have to add >>>the name of William C. Levengood, who up to now has enjoyed a >>>fairly unblemished reputation as a plant biologist. It seems he >>>bolstered that reputation, and his crop circle work, by placing >>>the word 'Dr.' before his name, and/or not objecting when others >>>did so. >>>Acting on a tip from a well-known UFO 'Internal Affairs >>>Division', I asked Levengood, point-blank, if his Doctorate were >>>legitimate. He insisted that it was, and said it was a "Ph.D. >>>equivalent," handed out by the National Academy of Science. >Ph.D. is preceded by a B.S. (yes, more BS if he doesn't have a >Bachelor of Science degree from somewhere) and an MS (yes, More >of the Same) if he doesn't have a Master of Science from >somewhere. Few (if any) people get a Ph.D straight out of high >school. Few get a Ph.D. as the next degree after a BS, although >it does happen, I guess (I was told I didn't have to complete an >MS degree to continue in the Ph.D program, but once you've done >MS level work you may as well take the degree... which I did.) Sorry, I did not mean to imply that Levengood does not have a legitimate degree of some kind, just that he does not have a Ph.D. Here is his CV (however you pronounce it): LEVENGOOD, W.C. - Biophysicist M.S. in Biophysics, Univeristy of Michigan, 1970 M.A. in Bioscience, Ball State University, 1961 Research physicist at the Institute of Science and Technology and the Dept. of Natural Resources, U. Michigan, 1961-1970; Director of Biophysical Research for private-sector companies, 1970-83. Published 50 scientific papers, including eight in the prestigous journal Nature; three papers (1994; 1995; 1999) present results from studies of crop circle plants and soils. Currently pursuing various research interests at his laboratory (Pine- landia Biophysical Laboratory) in Grass Lakes, MI. Note that he does _not_ list "Ph.D. Equivalent." But we all know that he has allowed himself to be addressed as "Doctor" without correction. This is unlike Stan Friedman, whom _everyone_ wants to call "Doctor" yet he corrects them instantly. (Stan, why don't you just get a PhDE so you don't have to correct people? :-) ==JJS== ----- January, 2003 Dear Dave.... At the end of November when I got back to Cambridge from the Tempe, AZ Crop Circle Conference your email, and many others - asking for more information about Levengood's credentials - were waiting for me, along with the piece which I think was on UFO Updates by JJS. I was sorry to see these questions raised in the manner they were, but can certainly understand the concern people have. Here's what I can tell you. Five or six years ago (mid-l990s) I was writing some material for the press and general public about the BLT crop circle work and wanted to include short bios on myself, John Burke and W.C. Levengood (at the time the primary members of the team). Because the material was being designed for public/media dissemination, and because I felt that absolute clarity regarding each of our individual credentials was of primary importance, I asked Levengood for a copy of his vitae, which he supplied. On it was the "PhD-equivalent" designation...which I had never seen before, but which I accepted - copying precisely the bio that Levengood had supplied to me onto the bio sheet for the new "BLT Info Pak." At some point subsequently, a year or so later I think, it occurred to me that I needed to understand exactly what this equivalency was, and I phoned Levengood about it. He told me that he had, many years ago, been asked to present a paper to the National Academy of Science (NAS) and that, among the papers they had sent him about this presentation, he was informed that only people who had a PhD or who were "PhD-equivalent" could present. Apparently because of the Ph.D level course-work Levengood had completed and the number of his papers which had already been published in respected, peer-reviewed scientific journals, he was considered by them to be Ph.D-equivalent. I knew that it was a considerable honor to present one's work to the NAS, but I still wasn't absolutely clear as to just how I should refer to Levengood in print, or in public, so I did just what JJS did - I called the NAS for more information. The NAS told me exactly what they told JJS: the NAS does not confer degrees. Really confused at this point, I called Levengood back. He sounded irritated by my continuing questions - perhaps because, in the scientific arena it is one's work, not one's credentials, that counts (note that in all mainstream scientific journals no degrees are indicated after author's names at all). Also, Levengood never had much interest in the media and, clearly, was not as concerned as I was with the presentation of his work to them (I was the person who had to deal with reporters). Subsequently, a colleague of Levengood's told me the following: (1) Levengood did complete the required course-work for his Ph.D in biophysics; (2) he did write a paper as a Ph.D thesis, which was published in August, l973: "Bioelectric Currents and Oxidant Levels in Plant Systems," J.Experimental Botany, Vol. 24, No. 81, pp. 626-39; (3) however, for personal reasons, he had not completed his Orals examination, the final requirement for the Ph.D degree. Consequently he had not received the formal Ph.D, instead receiving a second Master's degree from the University of Michigan. The fact that Levengood went on to publish more than 50 papers in respected, peer-reviewed scientific journals (including multiple papers in Nature and Science) is further evidence that, among his colleagues, he is considered to be professionally competent and credible. In science, it is one's work that matters...and a great deal of his work has been accepted by his peers. However, the fact that Levengood uses the PhD-equivalency on his Vitae was a real problem for me, since it was my interest to legitimate the study of crop circles for the general public, and to do this I have to deal with the media all the time. I knew that the media might see this PhD-equivalency as an attempt on Levengood's part to misrepresent his educational backround and capabilities, and that if they did so they would then be highly likely to dismiss all of his results in this area. This would then affect not only Levengood, but all of the rest of us who were helping him in one way or another - not to mention the way in which the crop circle phenomenon itself might be perceived. Because the study of crop circles is considered "fringe" by the media and because one has to be very very precise ("extraordinary claims require extraordinary proofs) about all work in areas like this - and because I could foresee the very likely possibility that any question about credentials could undermine credibility in Levengood's work, I decided to stop listing the "PhD-equivalency" in the written materials put out by BLT. I removed the reference from all of our printed materials, removed all references to "Dr." Levengood, and stopped using the title "Dr." in my lectures, etc. When I put together the web-site (this last May) I did not include the PhD- equivalency, listing only his M.A. in Bioscience (1961, Ball State University) and his M.S. in biophysics (l970, University of Michigan) degrees. Further, I began informing the people in the crop circle community with whom I work regularly, so that they would also know how to accurately represent Levengood to the media, when they had reason to refer to him. I did this out of respect for the phenomenon itself, as well as the sincerity of the hundreds of lay-people who have been involved in helping Levengood and BLT with the research, and in an attempt to avoid any questioning, ultimately, of the inherent value of Levengood's work in the public media. Clearly, Levengood has other ideas. He is a maverick, I would guess in more ways than one. This is his prerogative. It would be a lot easier for me if he were more conventional in this matter. But if he were a more conventional individual, perhaps he would not have been as interested in subjects mostly ignored by mainstream scientists. What the interested public needs to consider is that Levengood is a career scientist. He has had extensive graduate academic training. He has published more than 50 papers in peer-reviewed scientific journals. He is highly intelligent, well-trained, and is rigorous in his methodology. His laboratory work is solid - there is no reason whatsoever for him to present inaccurate data and every reason not to (I will be able to demonstrate additional proof of this very clearly as soon as the new clay- mineral crystallization study can be posted on the BLT web- site). Whether his theoretical ideas are correct I don't know... but time will certainly tell. The fact that he chooses to use the NAS's PhD-equivalency standards is an eccentricity - it is unusual - and it appears that it does result in some people questioning both his personality and his work. But nowhere is it written that scientific insight and capability necessarily come hand-in-hand with traditional values or customs; in fact, they frequently don't. It would be a mistake to throw the baby out with the bath-water. As much as some of us might, upon occasion, want to. Nancy Talbott BLT Research Team Inc. P.S. In all the years I knew and worked with Levengood he never requested that I address him as "Dr." Levengood... in fact, he always preferred to be called "Lefty."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 6 Re: Corso - Gehrman From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 19:37:43 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 13:57:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Gehrman >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 18:19:30 -0500 >Subject: Re: Corso >>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 10:40:41 -0800 >>Subject: Re: Corso >>>From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 8:39:50 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: Corso ><snip> >>>Is there a giant space-based anti-ET weapons system which is >>>keeping the evil ET at bay the result of efforts unknown to him >>>at the time >>I've no answer to that question nor do you; this holds true for >>anyone else on the List. We have absolutely no way of knowing >>what the US arsenal holds. These are black projects. How much do >>you know about the TR3-b? >I have an answer: there are no laser or particle (or other) beam >weapons in space capable of withstanding an attack by ET's... or >anyone else. There are black projects, but they don't outrun the >physics and engineering. Bruce, Do you remember this discussion? http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/1998/sep/m08-007.shtml Is it possible that the TR3-b has "outrun" our public understanding of "physics and engineering"? If that is true, could there be black-project technical discussions and discoveries that modify existing knowledge but, for whatever reason, the information is not generally known to the scientific community? >But more than that, based on what we >know about ET (or whatever they are... Other Intelligences) >capabilities from, for example, the Iran Jet Case (Sept 1976), >sensor and control equipment that would be used to point a beam >weapon toward an oncoming spaceship would be disabled by their >technology. Maybe so but speculative. The TR3-b could be armed and dangerous. And then there is this: http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2000/nov/m10-023.shtml Excerpt: "Strong and durable must the body be made, like a great flying bird, of light material. Inside it one must place the mercury- engine with its iron heating apparatus beneath. By means of the power latent in the mercury which sets the driving whirlwind in motion, a man sitting inside may travel a great distance in the sky in a most marvelous manner." One might rationalize this statement as being nothing but ancient ramblings if it weren't for two other significant facts. First, two well respected scientists and teachers, Gerald Schubert and J. A. Whitehead, discovered that when mercury in a circular dish is subjected to a slowly rotating heat source, the mercury begins to rotate as a vortex in the opposite direction of the heat and often dramatically exceeds the speed of the heat source. The second is that the ancient Roman God called Mercury is depicted with wings on both his helmet and his heels. His helmet is also shaped like a UFO. Now why should Mercury, be a god who flies? And does any of this information help us understand the nature of the TR3B?" >I'd say there is zero probability that we have any effective >anti-ET weapon in space. I value your opinion but is this case, I'll put my money on Col. Corso. Ed
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 6 Re: Inside One UFO Hunter's 'Waking Dream' - From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 23:25:49 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 13:59:44 -0500 Subject: Re: Inside One UFO Hunter's 'Waking Dream' - >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 14:16:43 +0100. >Subject: Inside One UFO Hunter's 'Waking Dream' >Source: Salt Lake City Weekly >http://cgi.newcity.com/exitlog/frameset.php?close=http://www.slweekly.com/ editorial/2002/feat_2002-12-26.cfm >Stig *** >The X-Files is absent from the airwaves this television season, >but Salt Lake City has its own real-life Fox Mulder on the case: >"Alien" Dave Rosenfeld. . >Rosenfeld, 34, is an agreeable fellow, simple and plainspoken. >At our first meeting, he's wearing blue jeans, a gray baseball >cap and a black T- shirt with green lettering that identifies >him as a member of something called the UFO Search Team. His >thin, dark beard outlines an easy grin. We shake hands, and I >can't help being impressed by his warm demeanor. He's >instantaneously your buddy_a regular Joe from across the street. > <snip> >A NEW RELIGION >UFOlogy_the study of the UFO phenomenon_is a new kind of >religion to believers, Typical stupid statement by a naive reporter >among whom Rosenfeld is a sort of spiritual leader. <LOL> Never heard of he guy..... He's not leading me.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 6 Woman Says Her Car Was Hit By UFO From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 05:27:19 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 14:01:06 -0500 Subject: Woman Says Her Car Was Hit By UFO Source: The Daily Record, Dunn, North Carolina. http://www.dunndailyrecord.com/Main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1&ArticleID=407 23 Stig *** Friday, January 03, 2003 Car Hit By UFO On I-40 By JON SOLES Of The Record Staff ** A Wilmington woman says her car was hit by an unidentified flying object on I-40 near Benson Sunday. The object, which appeared to be black in color and about the size of a walnut, seemingly fell from the sky, a witness said. Linda Moore said she was driving her new Toyota Avalon west on I-40 when an object hit the passenger side of her car. The woman sitting in the front passenger seat, Mrs. Moore's cousin Vicki Wright, reported that a black object traveling very fast appeared from above a tall pine tree and hit the car just in front of the mirror. The incident happened about 4:20 p.m. Ms. Wright said the object was moving so fast that she did not have time to sound a warning, according to Mrs. Moore. The impact made a loud noise that startled everyone in the vehicle, she said. Mrs. Moore's two nieces, ages 13 and 14, were in the back seat of the car. She said her older niece also saw the object that struck the car. "If you saw the dent in my car, you could tell whatever it was was coming real fast," Mrs. Moore said. She said she did not actually see the damage until she stopped at a gas station at McGee's Crossroads. She said the object gouged a large dent in the car and scratched off paint. Mrs. Moore said she has contacted her insurance company, but does not yet know how much it will cost to repair the damage. Mrs. Moore said she is at a loss at explaining the object that hit her car, but she is not ruling out extraterrestrial origin. "I said to Vicki, `You might think I'm crazy, but I think that could have been an asteroid or something coming from the sky," Mrs. Moore said. "Lord I had to call in a claim on that. I know it sounds stupid," Mrs. Moore said. Mrs. Moore contacted The Daily Record after reading a story Jan. 1 reporting that an 8-year-old girl on Aquila Road near Benson was struck in the leg by an unknown, unidentified projectile. The girl sustained superficial wounds, according to Lt. Fred Dees of the Johnston County Sheriff's Office. Lt. Dees said there was no evidence that the girl was hit by a bullet, but he said he was not ruling out that possibility. ***
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 6 Video Shows UFO Over Azeri Capital From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 07:45:17 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 14:03:41 -0500 Subject: Video Shows UFO Over Azeri Capital Source: ANS TV - Baku Azeri via Hoover's Online http://hoovnews.hoovers.com/fp.asp?layout=3Ddisplaynews&doc_id=3DNR200301036= 70.2_ccfe0000f88417cd Stig *** UFO spotted over Azeri capital - TV January 3, 2003 5:40am 01/03/2003 [Presenter] Residents of Baku's third high-rise estate observed an unidentified flying object at about 0800 this morning [0400 gmt]. The round object, which radiated light of different colours, hovered above the high-rise estate for half an hour. The residents said that this was the second time that they had witnessed the flight of the UFO over the high-rise estate. [Video shows bright light moving haphazardly through the air while revolving around its axis] Source: ANS TV, Baku, in Azeri 1700 gmt 2 Jan 03 /=A9 BBC Monitoring Copyright 2002. All Rights Reserved. Financial Times Information Limited - Asia Africa Intelligence Wire Copyright 2003 Financial Times Limited, All Rights Reserved
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 6 International Petition To UN For UFO Info From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 03:49:25 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 14:04:58 -0500 Subject: International Petition To UN For UFO Info Hello All, I have a great 'New Years resolution' for all UFO buffs... make it a point to read and sign the International Petition to the U.N. for UFO info disclosure. More importantly, make a resolution to encourage as many of your friends and associates as you can to do likewise. Here's to a successful campaign for disclosure in 2003. Warmest regards to all my fellow UFOnauts. (UFOnuts! ;) John Velez Sign the International Petition to the United Nations for disclosure of information pertaining to UFOs. http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 6 Puerto Rico: FAFROTSKIES From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 07:49:39 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 14:06:53 -0500 Subject: Puerto Rico: FAFROTSKIES SOURCE: El Mundo (newspaper); Mundo Misterioso (Website) DATE: January 6, 2003 MYSTERIOUS OBJECT FALLS IN PUERTO RICO An object of unknown origin crashed against the leaves of a palm tree last Wedenesday and burned almost a meter of grass in the backyard of a San Juan residence, according to Puerto Rican police officials. According to the report, a strong smell of sulfur innundated the site shortly after the fall occurred in a family dwelling in Carolina, the municipality adjacent to San Juan. The property was owned by Matmari and Martin Rodriguez Carrasquillo. The couple advised authorities of the incident a few days after it occurred. Police advised the Arecibo Observatory in northern Puerto Rico of the event. Officials from the observatory and the Environmental Quality Board (JCA) conducted a radiation test, yielding results which showed the object came from beyond Earth's atmosphere, according to the police report. ========================================== Translation (C) 2003 Scott Corrales Institute of Hispanic Ufology Special thanks to Guillermo Gimenez.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 6 NASA & UFOs? From: Thiago Luiz Ticchetti <thiagolt@opengate.com.br> Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 15:13:32 -0300 Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 14:09:19 -0500 Subject: NASA & UFOs? Hello list I am writing a book about astronauts, NASA and UFOs and I need your help. Somebody have information about that? Books with that subject? Articles or texts? Thank you very much -- Thiago Luiz Ticchetti Presidente da EBE-ET/RAB Brasilia/DF Brasil
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 6 Secrecy News -- 01/06/03 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org> Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 12:33:19 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 14:11:43 -0500 Subject: Secrecy News -- 01/06/03 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2003, Issue No. 1 January 6, 2003 ** NEW INVENTION SECRECY ORDERS REPORTED ** INADVERTENT DISCLOSURES OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS INFO ** SECRECY AND LEAKS ** FOREIGN GOVERNMENT FOIA REQUESTS RESTRICTED ** NEWS AND NEW RELEASES NEW INVENTION SECRECY ORDERS REPORTED The U.S. government invoked the Invention Secrecy Act of 1951 to impose new secrecy orders on 139 patent applications during fiscal year 2002, thereby blocking their publication. A total of 4,792 secrecy orders remained in effect at the end of the year, according to statistics compiled by the Patent and Trademark Office. Secrecy orders can be imposed on patent applications at the discretion of government agencies whenever, in their judgment, disclosure of the invention could be "detrimental to national security." The Invention Secrecy Act is one of two laws that permit the government to prevent publication of privately generated information. (The other law is the Atomic Energy Act.) The constitutionality of such authority, which appears to be at odds with the First Amendment, has never been tested in court. Of the 139 new secrecy orders issued last year, 37 were imposed on private inventors or businesses who developed their inventions without government funding. Such orders, which are referred to as "John Doe" orders, are the most potentially problematic from a constitutional point of view. The latest statistics on patent secrecy orders, obtained by FAS under the Freedom of Information Act, may be found here: http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/invention/stats.html Other resources concerning the Invention Secrecy Act of 1951 are available here: http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/invention/index.html INADVERTENT DISCLOSURES OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS INFO In the latest quarterly survey of declassified records at the National Archives, Department of Energy reviewers reported finding 166 documents containing 422 pages of classified nuclear weapons information that had been inadvertently released. The documents were withdrawn from public access. "The inadvertently released nuclear weapons design information (RD) detailed in this report concerns the early generations of nuclear weapons that this country developed in the 1950s and 1960s," according to the new DOE report to Congress. "Potential adversaries, emerging proliferant nations and terrorist groups aggressively target U.S. nuclear weapon information." See the unclassified version of the "Eighth Report on Inadvertent Releases of Restricted Data and Formerly Restricted Data under Executive Order 12958," dated August 2002 and publicly released last week, here: http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/doe/inadvertent8.html SECRECY AND LEAKS "In the never-ending sparring match between the government and the news media, no subject produces more friction than the practice of leaking classified information," writes Jack Nelson in a new study. Nelson, a distinguished journalist and former Los Angeles Times Washington bureau chief, offers a perspective on the recent evolution of official policy towards unauthorized disclosures of classified information in a report published by the Joan Shorenstein Center on the Press, Politics and Public Policy at the Kennedy School of Government, Harvard University. See his report, "U.S. Government Secrecy and the Current Crackdown on Leaks," here: http://www.ksg.harvard.edu/presspol/publications/Nelson.pdf An abridged version appeared under the title "What Leaks Are Good Leaks?" in the Los Angeles Times on January 5 here: http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-op-nelson5jan05,0,5285804.stor y FOREIGN GOVERNMENT FOIA REQUESTS RESTRICTED In a shoddy bit of legislative legerdemain, Congress amended the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) last year (for only the seventh time) in order to excuse U.S. intelligence agencies from complying with requests for information that are submitted by foreign governments or their representatives. The action was taken without any pretense of deliberation, as no opportunity for hearings or public comment was provided and even the committees that have jurisdiction over FOIA were left out of the loop. The implications of the new policy were discussed by the Justice Department's Office of Information and Privacy here: http://www.usdoj.gov/oip/foiapost/2002foiapost38.htm The new limitation applies only to intelligence agencies (and apparently only affects foreign governments, not foreign individuals). Other agencies will continue to process FOIA requests as before. On January 2, the State Department said that it "will deliver some ... documents to the Government of Peru shortly" in response to a request from the Peruvian Truth Commission. See: http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2003/16311.htm NEWS AND NEW RELEASES The scope of Bush Administration secrecy activity was reviewed in a long front-page article in the New York Times on January 3. See "Government Openness at Issue as Bush Holds on to Records," by Adam Clymer: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/03/politics/03SECR.html Historical records declassified and released this month under Britain's 30 year rule are listed and described by the UK Public Record Office here: http://www.pro.gov.uk/releases/r2003.htm The Foreign Relations of the United States (FRUS) volume on the Berlin Crisis, 1961-1962, which was published ten years ago, is newly available online here: http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/frus/kennedyjf/xiv/ _______________________________________________ Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org with "subscribe" in the body of the message. OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html _______________________ Steven Aftergood Project on Government Secrecy Federation of American Scientists web: www.fas.org/sgp/index.html email: saftergood@fas.org voice: (202) 454-4691
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 6 Re: Comments From Roswell UFO Museum - Houran From: Jim Houran <JHouran@siumed.edu> Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 11:56:59 -0600 Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 14:17:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Comments From Roswell UFO Museum - Houran >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 22:47:00 -0400 >Subject: Comments From Roswell UFO Museum >What follows was sent by Julie Shuster, Director of the Roswell >International UFO Museum and Research Center and I believe >deserves to be seen on this List because of all the discussion >about Roswell related matters. Hello List, I would like to note that serious questions have been raised about the mission statement of the IUFOMRC in relation to recent actions on behalf of Julie Shuster in particular. Either the IUFOMRC co-operates with established researchers and shares data for objective analysis or it needs to revise its mission statement. I have worked well with Dennis Balthaser and others in the past who at the time were affiliated with the IUFOMRC. With their assistance, I conducted and published objective research into the Jim Ragsdale testimony. More recently, I have pursued more stringent analyses of the so-called Ramey Memo from the Roswell case. Unfortunately, the atmosphere of the Museum has strangely changed. For example, my (and others') requests for the Museum's copy of the Ramey memo scans for further analysis have been flatly denied by Ms. Shuster for unspecified reasons. Thus, before the Museum points its finger at the behavior of others, its Director needs to decide whether the Museum is going to faciliate a search for the truth or be a hindrance to it. The credibility of the IUFOMRC is just as much at stake as some of the witnesses it is actively defending. James Houran
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 6 Meanwhile Back In The Jungle From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 11:13:11 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 14:22:15 -0500 Subject: Meanwhile Back In The Jungle SAUCERS AND SOLDIERS? THE AMAZON SCENARIO EXAMINED by Scott Corrales Institute of Hispanic Ufology The Amazon Rainforest has earned itself a place of importance in the public's mind through highly successful efforts by media personalities at creating public awareness of the threats it faces - whether from rapacious poachers, insensitive industrial concerns, or peasant farmers setting fire to huge tracts of rainforest to plant meager crops. The Amazon - aside from being the Earth's mightiest river - is actually a giant culvert into which drain rivers from all over the northern "hump" of the South American landmass: thousands of miles of tributaries from Colombia, Venezuela, Ecuador, Peru, Bolivia and Brazil. For decades, this vital natural resource of has earned the distinction of being a place in which UFO and paranormal activity has ocurred. From the raid upon a Brazilian garrison in 1957 to the seige of villages at the giant river's mouth in the early Eighties, events continue to take place that make the study of the phenomenon an even more fantastic challenge. UFO activity has been particularly heavy in the Brazilian, Peruvian and Bolivian Amazon and its tributary rivers, leading many to strongly suspect the existence of a "UFO base" in the region. Such a belief was voiced as early as 1965, when Dr. Olavo Fontes speculated on a possible extraterrestrial "military" invasion in the northern part of Brazil. A retired military man, Gen. Moacyr Uchoa, seconded this belief, stating that his nation's air force had considerable evidence pointing to the existence of such a site. Uchoa's personal skepticism of the phenomenon was overcome when his daughter was cured of a terminal illness by a UFO entity. By 1969, just as Project Blue Book was winding down in the U.S., the Brazilian Air Force was setting up its Sistema de Investiga=B3ao de Objetos Aereos Nao Idenficados, or SIOANI. This operation coincided with the oft-mentioned Operacao Prato (Operation Plate), whose purpose was that of a collecting information on UFOs from the riverine communities of the Amazon Basin as well as investigate and photograph any anomalous phenomena. However, researchers of distinction, such as Fernando Cleto Nunes Pereira have argued that the bulk of the information collected by Operasao Prato was turned over to the U.S. Air Force. Brazil, having neither the resources nor indeed an overwhelming interest in exploring the UFO enigma, would barter its findings for more tangible benefits. Opera=B3ao Prato most desperate hour, without a doubt, came during the nightmarish siege of the Isle of Colhares in the Lower Amazon between 1977-78. This landmark case of Brazilian ufology dealt with the appearance of the notorious chupas - boxlike flying contraptions which fired laser-like beams against the hapless inhabitants of Amazonian communities. These devices, whose depredations have been detailed by both Jacques Vall,e and Daniel Rebisso Giese, caused Brazil's First Air Regional Command (COMAR) to dispatch its forces not to fight the aliens in some romantic real-life version of Independence Day, but to collect as much information on the unknown quantity and keep the hysterical population of the Amazon Delta under control. At first, the military scoffed at the exploits of the chupas. But when reports were received from municipal officials, the very real fear of guerrilla activity prompted them to react. While some of COMAR's officers may have eventually believed that they faced an extraterrestrial adversary, the vast majority believed that one of the superpowers was testing advanced weaponry without permission in the Brazilian wilderness. In his landmark book, Vampiros Extraterrestres Na Amazonia (Extraterrestrial Vampires of the Amazon), ufologist Daniel Rebisso Giese notes that the military personnel involved in the operations at Colhares managed to acquire considerable amounts of information in the form of photographs, video footage and audio recordings, but attempts at pursuing the enigmatic UFOs with helicopters proved fruitless. In an interview with author Pablo Villarubia, Rebisso noted that some of the soldiers involved in Operacao Prato suffered nervous breakdowns while others went completely insane. By 1981, the residents of these riverine communities were still being terrorized by the coffin-like chupas. A local hunter had been cornered by one of the weird devices and fired a shotgun blast at it in an attempt to free himself from the paralyzing effects of its white beam of light. The light gave him a shock of such intensity that it made him pass out. Claudia Rodr=A1gues, a plantation worker, was at home one night when a chupa fired a beam at her through the roof of her house. She was later taken to a hospital in Belem, almost 200 miles away, to be treated for radiation burns. The UFO-related activity goes back to the early days of the contemporary UFO era. In November 1953, Pedro Serrate was walking along the banks of the Mamor, River in Bolivian Amazonia when he became aware of a discoidal object some hundred and fifty away from him. The thing's hull seemed to be made of a dark blue, glassy material. Curious, Serrate got closer to the craft and was able to catch a glimpse of its human-looking crew complement. When the uniformed humanoids caught off-guard, became aware of Serrate's presence, the vehicle rose silently into the air, disappearing in a matter of seconds. Four years later, it was the Brazilian military that would be caught off guard by a UFO: at 2:03 a.m. on November 3, 1957 a star-like object flew over Fort Itaipu, heading for it at breakneck speed. Startled sentries were left stunned by the orange, discoidal craft which issued a singeing blast of heat, leaving them unconscious. Believing themselves to be under enemy attack, the garrison mobilized in time to see an orange light rising up from the fort and moving across the sky. Perhaps the chupas and their operators have included humans among their sampling of Amazonia's flora and fauna. In April of 1960, three well-outfitted expeditions disappeared without a trace in the rainforest: the first of the three was a 22-man party of surveyors and engineers whose mission it was to study the proposed layout of the Transamazonian Highway (BR 65). The second expedition, a rescue party, went in search of the first when nothing else was ever heard from it, and it too disappeared. The third was a six-man military patrol, experienced in counterinsurgency and jungle fighting, which had been sent out from Colombian Amazonia to find the whereabouts of the first two. Nothing was ever heard from them again, either. The Venezuelan Amazon is not without its own sightings of mysterious craft. in November of 1976, the villagers of San Juan de Manapiare, a jungle settlement accessible only by plane (a 45 minute ride from Puerto Ayacucho), were to witness an astonishing spectacle: a brilliant object illuminated the 600- foot high Morrocoy Hill, a few miles away from the settlement, striking fear in the hearts of the bemused witnesses. The sightings were repeated every night for a week, with the same object appearing over different sites. Units of the Venezuelan National Guard, stationed inthe region, were sent out to investigate the phenomenon. The object, described as resembling "another Moon" by witness Luis Mingu, would vanish by disappearing into a cloud. Surprisingly, the strangeness of these events did not arouse the curiosity of the hemisphere's only superpower. Or did it? The United States manifested an interest in the region for the first time in the 1960's, when American interest penetrated the Amazon Basin in search of a rare mineral - niobium, a silvery- grey metal vital to the production of spaceflight-related alloys and the cores of nuclear reactors, as niobium cannot be corroded by uranium. Both niobium and manganese can be found in relative abundance within Amazonia U.S. awareness of the area further increased in 1994, when the Raytheon corporation (famous for its Patriot missiles employed during the Gulf War) was awarded a $1.4 billion dollar contract to build a radar system. This in itself is hardly surprising, given the company's record of building similar facilities for the U.S. Navy, particularly the highly controversial "over the horizon" system (ROTHR) being deployed on the Puerto Rican island of Vieques. The curious note was that the call for bids had issued from Brazil, which was interested in creating an advanced radar network within Amazonia to be known as SIVAM. The avowed purpose of the SIVAM system was to improve air- traffic control, assist in meteorological reporting, and as an added bonus "provide support for drug interdiction efforts". Ranging from Boa Vista in the State of Roraima (at the feet of the Guyana Highlands) and as far south as Vilhena in Rondonia, SIVAM's twelve overmuscled radar systems would relay their information to "jungle processing centers" in Manaus and Porto Velho and then on to the "main command center" in Brasilia itself. The system's construction would have gone by unnoticed by the rest of the world, but in 1995, members of the Brazilian senate accused Raytheon of having bribed government functionaries to win the bid. One of these senators, Eduardo Suplicy, charged that Raytheon's aim was to "provide the CIA with privileged information regarding Amazonia." While the nature of said confidential information probably had to do with the region's mostly untapped mineral wealth, would it be unreasonable to surmise - given what is known of the area - that overly sophisticated radar system might serve another purpose, such as the detection of strange objects flying over the region? In the summer of 1993, South American newspapers published articles discussing the Bolivian and Peruvian governments' discomfiture at the prospect of a large contingent of U.S. forces setting up a "semi-permanent" base in the Bolivian Amazon as part, allegedly, of the vaunted "War On Drugs". Over a hundred U.S. troops from the 37th Airborne, stationed at Fort Bragg, have been engaged in the construction of facilities at Santa Ana, a small Amazonian village in the Beni region of Bolivia (curiously enough, along the banks of the Mamor, River, where Serrate's 1953 sighting occured). A powerful transmitter, also under construction, will enable direct communication with the Panama-based Southern Command and the Pentagon itself. The Bolivian parliament, incensed by the presence of the foreign "garrison", questioned President Jaime Paz Zamora over the matter. The official explanation given to all and sundry is that the soldiers "are building a school". Independent investigators appointed by the Bolivian parliament visited the jungle area in question, stating in their report that the weapon systems being brought into the country were of a power in excess of anything needed to fight drug traffickers or insurgent groups like the Sendero Luminoso terrorists. Bolivia's vice-president cautioned the parliament that "it was unwise to look a gift horse in the mouth." Could the avowed purpose of these troops be to monitor the increased UFO activity that is taking place throughout Amazonia? # # # #
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 6 UFO videotapes 4 Sale - Cheap! From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 15:49:38 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 17:49:36 -0500 Subject: UFO videotapes 4 Sale - Cheap! Hi All, I have a limited number of 'classic' UFO videotapes (all 'new' in unopened plastic packaging) that I'd like to offer to the UFO UpDates List members for much less than half the retail price. These video's (VHS format) sell retail for between $24.95 and $35.95 (US funds.) I am offering them here for $10.00 each plus $3.50 for mailing and handling. Less than _half_ the price I paid for them wholesale! I have the following quantities and titles available: (2 tapes available) Masters Of The Stars - Video clips from the Mexico City UFO flap of the 90's. The video was compiled by Brit and Lee Elders. Awesome UFO footage. The tape comes packaged in a durable hard case. (2 tapes available) Roswell Remembered - A fascinating documentary featuring Kevin Randle, author of "The UFO Crash at Roswell." A 'must have' for people who follow the Roswell case. (3 tapes available) Crop Circle Communique - is a must for experts and newcomers alike to this baffling subject. Features Collin Andrews and some spectacular aerial views of the crop formations. (3 tapes available) Alien Autopsy - The complete Fox Special plus extra footage of the 'debris.' (4 tapes available) Strange Harvest - This is the original award winning documentary by Linda Moulton-Howe on the ongoing cattle mutilation phenomenon. A true 'classic' and a video that belongs in every UFO tape library. (2 tapes available) Strange Harvest 1993 - The follow-up video to Linda Moulton-Howe's original award winning classic "Strange Harvest." These two videos (Strange Harvest and Strange Harvest 1993) can be considered a 'set.' I recommend that if you purchase the 1993 offering, you should also purchase a copy of Linda's original documentary. Anyone interested in purchasing all 16 tapes for resale can have them for $150.00 plus mailing costs. If you wish to buy any of the tapes being offered, contact me privately at my e-mail address: john@virtuallystrange.net All tapes will arrive in the original unopened packaging and in spanking new condition. Satisfaction is guaranteed or your funds will be promptly and cheerfully refunded. No questions no hassle. Thank you, John Velez Sign the International Petition to the United Nations for disclosure of information pertaining to UFOs. http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 6 Re: Corso - Gehrman From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:36:56 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 17:55:24 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Gehrman >From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 20:43:5 -0500 >Subject: Re: Corso >>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 10:40:41 -0800 >>Subject: Re: Corso >Greetings List, >I will say that Corso always comes back again and again each >time as I mentioned before set back to zero again just like some >video game. This thing runs in cycles over and over again the >evidence that Corso is a liar comes out, everything goes away >for some months, then we are told that there is no such evidence >and everything starts up again from zero as if nothing was ever >posted on this before. <snip> >More and more evidence comes into focus which indicates that >Corso's lack of veracity. See Kevin Randle's post on Kaufmann >and Corso. <snip> >>>>Yes, he certainly did but does that automatically make it a lie? >>>>He said the same thing on Art Bell but the VSA indicates he was >>>>telling the truth. Now, he may have been mistaken and what he >>>>thought was a time machine was in fact something else, but he >>>>was telling the truth as he saw it. >No, the VSA, as even advocates admit, does not tell if someone >is lying. >http://Diogenesgroup.com >It detect stress in someone's voice. Now I received a long E- >mail from the president of this company a long time ago, also, >cc-ed to dozen of other prominent people about how great this >gadget was and that it could indeed take voice off a radio or TV >and do a proper analysis, etc., etc. >However, if you read carefully at the site you will find for >this item to work as advertised that it the subject must be in >some kind of jeopardy, because it works on the "fight or flight" >reaction of the body. Also, there has to be some kind of >calibration of the device. >If you carefully read the report on the VSD test done on Corso >at >http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2000/aug/m16-020.shtml >you will find that if a group of guys are telling stories over >beers it can't be analyzed with any effectiveness. Well, what do >we have here, "Mad Dawg" Art "Pit Bull" Bell, with a known >reputation for tearing his "guests" to shreds before the >startled audience's ears and Colonel Dr. John Alexander. >I have e-mail Alexander back and forth on Corso, Alexander is >another one who did not "read" Corso's book. He did have a long >list of questions for "Phil," but never had a chance to ask all >of them before Corso died. So what do we have? Buds, John and >Phil appearing in the very friendly Art Bell show, hardly any >stress or jeopardy in this situation, and, in fact, it is just >like a bunch of guys talking over beers. Is it any wonder that >stress can't be detected in the voices? It is true that the VSA works by examining and measuring the stress levels in a person's voice. Mike's description is clear and accurate. He felt that the tape was a good testing situation and that he'd be able to recognize any attempt at deception by either Alexander or Corso. Art Bell's questions were knowledgeable and Alexander's comments were intelligent. He stated that he had checked out Corso with the Pentagon and found Corso to be a credible source. The main reason that you and I disagree is your dismissal of the VSA evidence. I think it proves that even though Col. Corso made mistakes, the main thrust of his story is true, at least Corso thinks that it is true. He is not lying, no matter how many inconsistencies you throw into the mix. This was not the first time Mike and I worked together. I hired him to analyze a video documentary on the bombing of an environmental activist named Judi Bari. Some friends who knew of his work and were impressed with his results had given me Mike's name and contact info. He didn't know one thing about my investigation, yet he successfully identified the deceptive testimonies and also indicated who was being truthful. So I know first hand that VSA is accurate. I decided to have the Bell- Corso-Alexander tape analyzed because I wanted to know the truth about Corso. I sent Mike an absolutely new copy that had never been played before. The total analysis cost about $300. Do you think I'd spend this kind of money and effort on a lark? Since the Corso analysis I've had Mike analyze several other testimonies: Larry Warren and Peter Robins are not being deceptive. Frank Kaufmann did give deceptive testimony. So did Glen Dennis. But the most interesting is Colonel Daniel McGovern. Some of you may remember him, the military cameraman who discredited the AA cameraman by saying that his filming technique was terrible and that all autopsies as important as the AA would be filmed in color. (How did he know and how many autopsies had he filmed?) I dug up some of his video testimony and sent it to Mike. Guess what? It seems he was being deceptive (except when he's described his own UFO experience). Researchers who have tapes of questionable testimony could benifit from finding a trustworthy voice-stress analyst and having their tapes analyzed. I think some may be surprised at what they find. <snip> >The military reflects society, there are injusticies and corrupt >practices in both. Here I agree. But I fail to see what this has to do with Col. Corso. Was he a batalion commander? Did he lie about that? >>>>>Corso claimed that >>>>>Birnes stroked the book and there were some inaccuracies in the >>>>>book that he couldn't correct do to some contractual obligation >>>>>he was under. Birnes claimed that the book is a faithful >>>>>reproduction of every word that fell out of Corso's mouth, >>>>>further that Birnes had it all on tape. Further that Corso had >>>>>read the manuscript and galley proofs of the book a number of >>>>>times and had approved what was written in the book. Birnes had >>>>>all of the material on tape for 3 (thats right three) Corso >>>>>books. I notice that Birnes has been in no hurry to do the other >>>>>two books. >Yes, and Corso and Barnes were interviewed together by >Linderman. No problems there. Corso said nothing about things in >the book being wrong. Phil Jr. told me that his dad began discovering mistakes and trying to correct them. He didn't say whose mistakes they were but he was trying to get them corrected. I suppose that as critics pointed out obvious flaws, Col. Corso began to realize that he had made some mistakes on dates and other historical facts. My point is that the seeding of alien technology, which is the main point of the book can not be a mistake. Either it's the truth or a lie and a hoax. There is not one shred of historical evidence that Col. Corso would do anything like that. Remember, he "walked with giants". Would Richard Russell, the chairman of the senate intelligence committee, hire Col. Corso to investigate the Kennedy assassination if he thought he were a fraud and a liar? >Well, I don't think you got your money's worth. Nor does it >trump documented proof of Corso's lying. How about another one? >His confrontation with a CIA official who wasn't even in >Washington at the time in a building not built at the time. How >many of these do we need? There is documented proof that Col Corso made mistakes but not that he lied. A lie is intentional; mistakes are not. I think there's a big difference. >If you and Robert want to have a private discussion on Corso, be >my guest, however, this is an open forum in case you had >noticed. One had better expect to get challenged here. >I notice that Mike Kemp's more detailed report never appeared! Mike became ill (he has diabetes) and I told him to forget it since I had enough information. But I did see a rough draft and the results were exactly the same: No deception! No lies! Both Corso and Alexander were cool, calm and collected. >>I'll answer your post, but unless I see some mutual respect, >>it's the last response you'll get from me. >Don't do me any favors. You have never had any respect for me. >Have constant denigrating my background and saying I don't >understand how intelligence works or how things are done on this >level. I am sorry but this guy was not Riley Ace of Spies, just >a light colonel with a big mouth. You need to do more research. Dig a little deeper and you'll be surprised at what you find. >>>Is there a giant space-based anti-ET weapons system which is >>>keeping the evil ET at bay the result of efforts unknown to him >>>at the time >>I've no answer to that question nor do you; this holds true for >>anyone else on the List. We have absolutely no way of knowing >>what the US arsenal holds. These are black projects. How much do >>you know about the TR3-b? >No way as easy to hide as big a construction project that would >take hundreds of space craft and make Space Station Freedom look >like peanuts. Sorry but the TR3-b seems to exist and what do you know of it? <snip> >>>His FBI record indicate that he engaged in >>>rather juvenile activities, but more seriously that he had >>>accused people of disloyal activity which the FBI had to check >>>and found wanting. >>I'll be glad to discuss this with you but first you have to >>prove to me that you've carefully read my rebuttal to Larry >>Bryant's slanderous remarks. >>http://www.caus.org/membercomments/mc062900.shtml >>I've tried to get Bryant to discuss our different takes on this >>subject, but so far he hasn't bothered to reply. >I have read your article. Nothing there to discuss. All your >demands of Larry are met in the files. They speak for >themselves. Sure, that's why Larry hasn't bothered answering any of my posts asking for clarification. >>>Also, read Corso's book and note the special relationship he had >>>with Hoover. Then look what Hoover said about him in his FBI >>>file. >>And we should believe Hoover? >You don't seem to get it. There is no special relationship here. >Corso could have left the FBI out altogether, but he has to make >up this special relationship with Hoover and the Bureau. Well I see a relationship and other researchers find a relationship and the FBI's own files indicate a relationship and since Col. Corso doesn't seem to be lying then there must be some other explanation for his mentioning a relationship. Maybe it's because there really was a relationship. >I think it is well past time for you to end your popping up >several months after someone has posted Corso's sorry record and >then starting all over again with these types of statement that >there is nothing wrong with his relating of his military record >in his book or that he never lied based on some VSD test. I >think it is well past time to put this old horse where it >belongs - out to pasture. You're certainly entitled to you opinion but I think you're overlooking and disregarding very important testimony. I've been defending Col. Corso for some time and plan to continue; so if you insinuate that he's a liar, you'll hear from me. Ed
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 6 Re: Puerto Rico: FAFROTSKIES - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 22:50:28 +0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 18:53:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Puerto Rico: FAFROTSKIES - Hall >From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 07:49:39 -0500 >Subject: Puerto Rico: FAFROTSKIES >SOURCE: El Mundo (newspaper); Mundo Misterioso (Website) >DATE: January 6, 2003 >MYSTERIOUS OBJECT FALLS IN PUERTO RICO >An object of unknown origin crashed against the leaves of a palm >tree last Wedenesday and burned almost a meter of grass in the >backyard of a San Juan residence, according to Puerto Rican >police officials. >According to the report, a strong smell of sulfur innundated the >site shortly after the fall occurred in a family dwelling in >Carolina, the municipality adjacent to San Juan. The property >was owned by Matmari and Martin Rodriguez Carrasquillo. >The couple advised authorities of the incident a few days after >it occurred. Police advised the Arecibo Observatory in northern >Puerto Rico of the event. Officials from the observatory and the >Environmental Quality Board (JCA) conducted a radiation test, >yielding results which showed the object came from beyond >Earth's atmosphere, according to the police report. List, Sounds very much like a meteorite unless or until proven otherwise. - Dick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 7 Re: Atmosphere Makes Sirius Dance - Young From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 23:17:40 EST Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 17:16:08 -0500 Subject: Re: Atmosphere Makes Sirius Dance - Young >From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos@yahoo.es> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 14:58:36 +0100 (CET) >Subject: Re: Atmosphere Makes Sirius Dance >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 18:25:32 EST >>Subject: Re: Atmosphere Makes Sirius Dance >>>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 14:54:32 -0400 >>>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Atmosphere Makes Sirius Dance <snip> >Having said that, we also know that only astronomical IFOs can=B4t >explain the UFO phenomena 100%. This is another fact. There are >a number of cases unexplained (0.1%, 10%, that=B4s not really >important), the case is that there are some cases that >apparently defy any explanation (I will not judge if it is due >to poor investigation or faulty analytical interpretation or it >is due to their own, intrinsic causes). >It is on these few cases we should strive to invest our research >work. And this should be a combined effort from both sides of >the spectrum, the total skeptics, the total believers (both >postures are worth of respect!), as well as the middle-field >researchers (most Europeans included here, I would say). >I am fortunate to enjoy common work and friendship with guys >from the right and the left (both in ufology and politics, by >the way), it is a healthy exercise. Sometimes I feel sad to see >here bitter disputes between absolute luminaries from both >sides. For 2003 onwards, may I call for a common ground? There >is one, believe me, and it will help to advance our knowledge of >what the UFO phenomenon is. Best wishes, V-J I can't agree with this more. Bob Young
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 7 Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - McGonagle From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk> Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 04:28:01 -0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 17:19:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - McGonagle >From: Todd Lemire <tlemire@comcast.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 12:45:40 -0500 >Subject: Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? >>From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 16:40:21 -0000 >>Subject: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? <snip> >Joe and others, >I find it interesting that this thread deals with: 'web' based >research in all it's forms, 'web' based access to this research, >the threat the 'web' poses to 'standard ufology' as some >'oldtimers' see it, the networking that the 'web' provides >between researchers - both good and bad, the pros and cons of >the lecture circuit, the quality of this 'web' based content, >the possibility of creating an 'International Authority', and so >on.... and so on.... and so on... and scooby dooby do!, yet >there seems to be no discussion of what I perceived to be the >main points of Jenny's article that, "UFOlogy must go back to >basics and treat this as a phenomenon in need of explanation, >rather than an explanation in search of any evidence to support >it." I think it is possible to interpret Jenny's comments in several ways. One aspect that I read into it is that the 'machinery' which drives ufology is faulty. My proposed remedy (although not instant) is to ensure that the structure is present for the machinery to work within. This is part of what I understood to be 'the basics'. I think that the level of detail for such a task requires a seperate List, as many people will have no interest in it until it starts to take form. Also, it seems logical to me to 'get our own house in order' i.e. the UK scene, before even considering to tackle the global arena. If a national structure works and is seen to work, then this model can be applied internationally. This is why I have set up a seperate List at: http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/bfedou to propose and debate a uniform structure for British ufology which incorporates a gradual and measurable improvement in standards. One very simple idea which I have proposed as an example is a 'factuality' rating for articles about ufology on the internet. This would not preclude speculative articles from being published, but there would be a measure of how factual the article is. For more details of this, please visit the URL above, where you will find other practical proposals in the files area. Other ideas include standard structures within groups, e.g. the appointment of a training officer with explicit responsibility for managing training within the group, a records officer for establishing and maintaining records handling processes and procedures including archiving and possibly digitisation of records. These ideas are for debate, I am not imposing them on anyone, but I believe that if implemented, they cannot fail to improve standards throughout ufology. Members of the working group list have raised concerns about some of the suggestions, and these will be considered and debated with a view to modifying or even scrapping the proposed model. I need more active input, proposing alternative models, or modifications to the proposed model to make it better. Because of the focus on the UK, these suggestions and objections need to come from the UK scene. I don't care if it takes me a year to come up with an agenda proposing a solution, so long as every possible angle and objection has been considered and addressed. When it comes to a summit meeting, all of the hard debate and hard work will hopefully have been done, allowing the meeting to get on with the agenda and start to make a difference. I take your point about little evidence of any activity regarding Jenny's comments on this List, but although it is a suitable platform on which to raise the initial issue, I think the issues are better addressed in detail elsewhere, perhaps with periodic updates to EBK's finest! Regards, Joe
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 7 Re: The Strange Case Of The Suffolk Spaceship - From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk> Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 04:56:23 -0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 17:20:27 -0500 Subject: Re: The Strange Case Of The Suffolk Spaceship - >From: Roy Hale <roy.hale@ntlworld.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 01:34:30 -0000 >Subject: The Strange Case Of The Suffolk Spaceship >Hi All, >Just in case this slipped past your eyes! >http://www.independent.co.uk/story.jsp?story=358248 >Roy.. Thanks, Roy, the article was actually posted here (by Errol, I think) on 4th December and can be read in full at: http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/dec/m04-030.shtml This is a classic example of the media attention which ufology currently draws, associating all of us with the more extreme elements! Cheers, Joe
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 7 Re: Frank Kaufmann Exposed - Gates From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 00:18:12 EST Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 17:22:08 -0500 Subject: Re: Frank Kaufmann Exposed - Gates >From: Bruce Hutchinson <bhutch@grassyhill.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 14:11:42 -500 >Subject: Re: Frank Kaufmann Exposed >>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 15:00:25 -0800 >>Subject: Re: Frank Kaufmann Exposed >>>From: Bruce Hutchinson <bhutch@grassyhill.com> >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 11:17:35 -500 >>>Subject: Re: Frank Kaufmann Exposed - Hutchinson >>>>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net> >>>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>>Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 18:02:05 -0800 >>>>Subject: Re: Frank Kaufmann Exposed >>David, List and Readers; >><snip> >>>>...Trakowski's replacement as Mogul Project Officer was Col. >>>>Edward Doty, who we know today from multiple documents, was >>>>really an AFOSI officer (i.e., Air Force counterintelligence) >>>>and also in charge of UFO investigations at Holloman AFB, >>>>Alamogordo. >>>In checking through the information I have at hand, I cannot >>>find a single document that supports your rather sweeping claim >>>of "multiple documents" supporting your accusation that Col >>>Edward Doty was connected officially to the AFOSI. ><snip> >>>I suspect that because Doty's name appears on the Project >>>Twinkle Final Report, you feel that this just _has_ to connect >>>Doty to CI. You know, ...of course, that Project Twinkle was >>>carried out separately from Project Blue Book. In fact, Project >>>Twinkle was carried out under the Air Force's geophysical >>>research program, a large part of which was handled by the Air >>>Force Cambridge Research Laboratory (AFCRL), which later was >>>renamed the Air Force Geophysics Laboratory and which today is >>>known as Phillips Laboratory. >>The information that Doty was OSI came from Leonard >>Stringfield's Status Report #6, based on the Project Twinkle >>summaries plus information from a witness who said Doty was also >>in charge of security at Holloman. >>The Twinkle summaries do defnitely state that Doty assumed >>responsibility for Holloman UFO investigations sometime in 1951. >>He and Dyvad took the UFO report from Corona on July 11, 1951. By >>the time of discussions with Doty on Aug. 27, 1951, it was stated >>that that Doty was "thoroughly acquainted with the situation." >>It also clearly states that he was to continue to collect and >>review reports and maintain liaison with AFOSI. Doty's 1959 >>letter to the Holloman base historian mentioned none of this, >>only his connection to the balloon projects. >>At the very least he was in charge of UFO investigations at >>Holloman starting in 1951 and reported to AFOSI, even if he >>wasn't AFOSI. >What do you have that establishes a "report" structure to the >AFOSI? As you very clearly pointed out, Doty was to maintain a >_liason_ with the AFOSI, which is to be expected due to Twinkle. >But he reported only to his superiors within the AFCRL. It would >appear that you are just trying to build some sort of "sinister >link" between Doty and AFOSI. There wasn't. The question boils down to did Doty actually, and in fact report investigations and other results to AFOSI... perhaps even to his superior. Keep in mind that AFOSI was active in UFO investigations. As I recall Bluebook has a number of AFOSI case files arranged by district. >>Upon review, I would have to agree this doesn't demonstrate that >>Doty was with OSI, as Stringfield claimed, but he did >>unquestionably investigate on their behalf and report to them. >Unquestionably? As you are unable establish any formal links >between Doty and the OSI, it would seem that there would be a >_lot_ of questions with that sort of claim. I had family in the military. Sometimes when they served you could make the claim that "they had no formal links" to the unit they were currently working at. You can also have folks who wear two hats so to speak as well. >>>In Air Force historical reports, Major Edward Doty is credited >>>with having created the Balloon Branch at Holloman AFB (formerly >>>Alamogordo Army Air Field) almost singlehandedly. Major Doty >>>also worked on Project Mogul (or Mogul-like) experiments at >>>Holloman AFB at least as late as 1951. He carried out a lot of >>>the scientific field work at Holloman for the AFCRL. >>My, what a fountain of arcane information you are today. I've >>never known you to personally research anything in depth, instead >>regurgitating what others have written or playing front man for >>them. Who are you playing front man for today Bruce? This sounds >>like something Tim Printy would have written, not you. >Does it matter whether this "arcane information" comes from >personal digging or the work of others? The point here is that >you are attempting to make Doty yet another pawn in your >sinister conspiracy. He wasn't. >From Bruce's answer it does appear like this alleged information came from some other individual. >>>Major Edward Doty undoubtedly worked with AFOSI personnel during >>>the Project Twinkle investigations, but Doty himself was _not_ a >>>member of AFOSI, and I doubt that you can produce an authentic, >>>official, Air Force record showing that he was ever assigned to >>>AFOSI. You can- and did- make some unwarranted assumptions, but >>>that hardly justifies such sweeping statements of "fact" based >>>on absurdly weak evidence. >>>And as a side note, your site erroneously claims Edward Doty was >>>the father of Richard Doty. (Richard has also claimed -falsely- >>>that Edward was his uncle!) You need to correct that. >>Richard Doty told people like Bruce Maccabee and Philip Klass >>that Edward Doty was his father. He told Robert Todd that Edward >>Doty was his uncle. Before I "correct" this, perhaps you can >>enlighten us to the true relationship of the two Dotys and how >>you know this for a fact. >Instead of asking Richard again, Robert Todd thought it might be >interesting to talk to Edward instead! Edward Doty told Todd >that he had never even met Richard, let alone fathered him. >There is no relationship between the two men except the >coincidence of their last names. So in essence we have Richard Doty making various claims of linkage to Edward Doty, and we have Edward Doty telling various tales to various people about Richard. Naturally if it suits the skeptibunkers, we accept the story hook, line and sinker, and repeat it as fact. Personally it sounds like another jewel encrusted helmet.... >>If I am wrong about Doty being AFOSI (as it currently appears I >>am), I have no problems making the necessary corrections. I do >>strive to be accurate. >>Perhaps you can tell your pal/ghostwriter Tim Printy to do >>likewise on his webpage concerning Charles Moore's Flight 4 >>trajectory hoax and alternation of the Flight 5 map. He's still >>claiming I got this all wrong and Moore is an innocent. >Well, as it happens, you _did_ get it all wrong!! In your >original "proof", you clearly failed to understand how Moore >used the table, and you made a number of obviously faulty >assumptions based on these mistakes. Tim's site very clearly >addresses these. As a result of Tim's page, you and Sparks were >forced to back to your spreadsheets to come with another theory. Wasn't printy the one who came up with the tale about how somehow, someway he was able to ascertain how Moore came up with the calculations, so they were correct? As I have pointed out earlier, kind of like looking at a kids math paper in school and seeing the logic trail of why the kid thought 2 plus 2 equals 6. Doesn't make the answer right....unless you live in California. <snip> >BTW: Your later theories - the ones that Tim Printy forced you >and Sparks to develop - do present some interesting anomolies >that Moore's book does not address. They are interesting, but >hardly proof that Moore was under the direction of the Great >Conspiracy. Tim Printy's site does not claim Moore used the data >correctly- Tim only demonstrates how Moore developed his graph, >which was something you obviously needed to know. This is rich, utterly rich. When presented with evidence that can't be explained we blow it off as "interesting anomolies that Moore's book does not address." Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 7 Re: Bob Young - Young From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 00:48:15 EST Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 17:25:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Bob Young - Young >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 23:14:02 -0500 >Subject: Re: Bob Young >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 17:50:57 EST >>Subject: Re: Bob Young >>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 04:49:12 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: Bob Young >>>>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >>>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>>Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 18:15:33 EST >>>>Subject: Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or Fact?' >>>>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>>>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>>>Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 13:49:10 -0500 >>>>>Subject: Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or Fact?' <snip> >>>>>...and Budd Hopkins' abductees, John Mack's, Ray Fowler's, etc. >>>>>How do all these men dare to believe what is being reported to >>>>>them by people who they have determined (through investigation >>>>>and after having spent countless hours with them ) to be >>>>>credible individuals. >>>>Because they are either believers, themselves, or are making a >>>>career out of it. You may take your pick. These are two >>>>possibilities. >>>Another possibility is; that they are simply going where the >>>data leads them. >>Yes, that is always a possibility. >Hola Bob,> > I asked: >>>If you have "investigated" abduction cases yourself, I would be >>>very interested to hear the results of the data you gathered >>>that has led you to believe that all the individuals you >>>referred to are making theirs up. I never said they were making anything up. You are putting words into my mouth. Please see: >>>>I've looking into so-called Abduction tales that wouldn't have >>>>even existed if it weren't for the UFO investigators who were, >>>>quite literally, creating the "data" that they thought they were >>>>collecting. The operative word here was, "thought". Now, compare it to your post: <snip> >>Please put my entire sequence of postings through your search >>engine and tell me if you find the word, "liar" anywhere. If you >>do, I will personally apologize. >Then an apology is definitely in order. You tell me, how many >ways are there to interpret a comment like, "the UFO >investigators who were, quite literally, creating the 'data.' " >Your words. _No_ they aren't, they are yours. You have hacked off the dependent part of my sentance, "that they thought they were collecting", and you have added a period to make the first part a complete sentence. This must have been because you were unable to find any use of the "L word" in any of my posts. >If you say that they are "making it up" Of course, I never said this. You're even putting your own words in quotes and claiming that they are mine. > and then presenting it >as non-fiction, you are calling them liars. ie; presenting made >up fantasy as reality. You can try to play 'Philadelphia lawyer' >semantic games and claim that that is not what you meant or >implied... but clearly, according to your own words, it is. >Whose "making things up", here? Do you have reading comprehension problems, John? When I said, >>>>I've looking into so-called Abduction tales that wouldn't have >>>>even existed if it weren't for the UFO investigators who were, >>>>quite literally, creating the "data" that they thought they were >>>>collecting. I didn't mention any names, did I? Clear skies, Bob Young
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 7 Re: Corso - Gates From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 00:52:18 EST Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 17:27:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Gates >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:36:56 -0800 >Subject: Re: Corso >>From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 20:43:5 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Corso >>>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 10:40:41 -0800 >>>Subject: Re: Corso >>Greetings List, >>I will say that Corso always comes back again and again each >>time as I mentioned before set back to zero again just like some >>video game. This thing runs in cycles over and over again the >>evidence that Corso is a liar comes out, everything goes away >>for some months, then we are told that there is no such evidence >>and everything starts up again from zero as if nothing was ever >>posted on this before. ><snip> >>More and more evidence comes into focus which indicates that >>Corso's lack of veracity. See Kevin Randle's post on Kaufmann >>and Corso. ><snip> >>>>>Yes, he certainly did but does that automatically make it a lie? >>>>>He said the same thing on Art Bell but the VSA indicates he was >>>>>telling the truth. Now, he may have been mistaken and what he >>>>>thought was a time machine was in fact something else, but he >>>>>was telling the truth as he saw it. >>No, the VSA, as even advocates admit, does not tell if someone >>is lying. >>http://Diogenesgroup.com >>It detect stress in someone's voice. Now I received a long E- >>mail from the president of this company a long time ago, also, >>cc-ed to dozen of other prominent people about how great this >>gadget was and that it could indeed take voice off a radio or TV >>and do a proper analysis, etc., etc. >>However, if you read carefully at the site you will find for >>this item to work as advertised that it the subject must be in >>some kind of jeopardy, because it works on the "fight or flight" >>reaction of the body. Also, there has to be some kind of >>calibration of the device. >>If you carefully read the report on the VSD test done on Corso >>at >>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2000/aug/m16-020.shtml >>you will find that if a group of guys are telling stories over >>beers it can't be analyzed with any effectiveness. Well, what do >>we have here, "Mad Dawg" Art "Pit Bull" Bell, with a known >>reputation for tearing his "guests" to shreds before the >>startled audience's ears and Colonel Dr. John Alexander. >>I have e-mail Alexander back and forth on Corso, Alexander is >>another one who did not "read" Corso's book. He did have a long >>list of questions for "Phil," but never had a chance to ask all >>of them before Corso died. So what do we have? Buds, John and >>Phil appearing in the very friendly Art Bell show, hardly any >>stress or jeopardy in this situation, and, in fact, it is just >>like a bunch of guys talking over beers. Is it any wonder that >>stress can't be detected in the voices? >It is true that the VSA works by examining and measuring the >stress levels in a person's voice. Mike's description is clear >and accurate. He felt that the tape was a good testing situation >and that he'd be able to recognize any attempt at deception by >either Alexander or Corso. Art Bell's questions were >knowledgeable and Alexander's comments were intelligent. He >stated that he had checked out Corso with the Pentagon and found >Corso to be a credible source. A couple of things. What did Alexander mean when he had Corso checked out at the Pentagon? We don't know who or what office Alexander spoke to. Did Alexander ask the person at the Pentagon something like "Corso claims that he was seeding ET technology....." can you verify this. The long and short of that answer is that whomever probably saw Corso's name in connection with POW/MIA and said he was valid. As to VSA I wouldn't hang my hat on it. >The main reason that you and I disagree is your dismissal of the >VSA evidence. I think it proves that even though Col. Corso made >mistakes, the main thrust of his story is true, at least Corso >thinks that it is true. He is not lying, no matter how many >inconsistencies you throw into the mix. >This was not the first time Mike and I worked together. I hired >him to analyze a video documentary on the bombing of an >environmental activist named Judi Bari. Some friends who knew of >his work and were impressed with his results had given me Mike's >name and contact info. He didn't know one thing about my >investigation, yet he successfully identified the deceptive >testimonies and also indicated who was being truthful. So I know >first hand that VSA is accurate. I decided to have the Bell- >Corso-Alexander tape analyzed because I wanted to know the truth >about Corso. I sent Mike an absolutely new copy that had never >been played before. The total analysis cost about $300. >Do you think I'd spend this kind of money and effort on a lark? >Since the Corso analysis I've had Mike analyze several other >testimonies: >Larry Warren and Peter Robins are not being deceptive. Frank >Kaufmann did give deceptive testimony. So did Glen Dennis. >But the most interesting is Colonel Daniel McGovern. >Some of you may remember him, the military cameraman who >discredited the AA cameraman by saying that his filming >technique was terrible and that all autopsies as important as >the AA would be filmed in color. (How did he know and how many >autopsies had he filmed?) >I dug up some of his video testimony and sent it to Mike. Guess >what? It seems he was being deceptive (except when he's >described his own UFO experience). >Researchers who have tapes of questionable testimony could >benifit from finding a trustworthy voice-stress analyst and >having their tapes analyzed. I think some may be surprised at >what they find. ><snip> >>The military reflects society, there are injusticies and corrupt >>practices in both. >Here I agree. But I fail to see what this has to do with Col. >Corso. Was he a batalion commander? Did he lie about that? While Corso was a commander he wasn't telling storys about meeting and having conversations with ET in a mine? Read a book called Stolen Valor. You will find many instances of people, some of lower ranks and some of higher ranks that lied about decorations, awards, and service to both family, friends, and community after their service was over. One high ranking general wacked himself when it was going to come out that he wore some decoration or award that he actually in fact never got. >>>>>>Corso claimed that >>>>>>Birnes stroked the book and there were some inaccuracies in the >>>>>>book that he couldn't correct do to some contractual obligation >>>>>>he was under. Birnes claimed that the book is a faithful >>>>>>reproduction of every word that fell out of Corso's mouth, >>>>>>further that Birnes had it all on tape. Further that Corso had >>>>>>read the manuscript and galley proofs of the book a number of >>>>>>times and had approved what was written in the book. Birnes had >>>>>>all of the material on tape for 3 (thats right three) Corso >>>>>>books. I notice that Birnes has been in no hurry to do the other >>>>>>two books. >>Yes, and Corso and Barnes were interviewed together by >>Linderman. No problems there. Corso said nothing about things in >>the book being wrong. >Phil Jr. told me that his dad began discovering mistakes and >trying to correct them. He didn't say whose mistakes they were >but he was trying to get them corrected. I suppose that as >critics pointed out obvious flaws, Col. Corso began to realize >that he had made some mistakes on dates and other historical >facts. Still doesn't change the fact that Birnes claimed that he had videotaped 14 hours of Corso telling his story, not to mention the part about reviewing the manuscript and making corrections before it was published. Birnes has maintained the the book is accurate as to what fell out of Corso's mouth. As you point out all these inaccuracys didn't appear to start coming up until Corso got challenged...then they popped up. >My point is that the seeding of alien technology, which is the >main point of the book can not be a mistake. Either it's the >truth or a lie and a hoax. There is not one shred of historical >evidence that Col. Corso would do anything like that. Remember, There is not a shred of historical evidence that can be shown that ET technology was actually seeded to the private sector, nor is their a shred of historical evidence that can be shown that Corso met with ET in a mine. Point is that other then "Corso said..." we really have nothing else. >he "walked with giants". Would Richard Russell, the chairman of >the senate intelligence committee, hire Col. Corso to >investigate the Kennedy assassination if he thought he were a >fraud and a liar? Corso wasn't claiming to have seeded ET technology, nor was he making claims about having a meeting with ET in a mine when that was going on. >>Well, I don't think you got your money's worth. Nor does it >>trump documented proof of Corso's lying. How about another one? >>His confrontation with a CIA official who wasn't even in >>Washington at the time in a building not built at the time. How >>many of these do we need? >There is documented proof that Col Corso made mistakes but not >that he lied. A lie is intentional; mistakes are not. I think >there's a big difference. >>If you and Robert want to have a private discussion on Corso, be >>my guest, however, this is an open forum in case you had >>noticed. One had better expect to get challenged here. >>I notice that Mike Kemp's more detailed report never appeared! > >Mike became ill (he has diabetes) and I told him to forget it >since I had enough information. >But I did see a rough draft and the results were exactly the >same: No deception! No lies! Both Corso and Alexander were cool, >calm and collected. >>>I'll answer your post, but unless I see some mutual respect, >>>it's the last response you'll get from me. >>Don't do me any favors. You have never had any respect for me. >>Have constant denigrating my background and saying I don't >>understand how intelligence works or how things are done on this >>level. I am sorry but this guy was not Riley Ace of Spies, just >>a light colonel with a big mouth. >You need to do more research. Dig a little deeper and you'll be >surprised at what you find. >>>>Is there a giant space-based anti-ET weapons system which is >>>>keeping the evil ET at bay the result of efforts unknown to him >>>>at the time > >>>I've no answer to that question nor do you; this holds true for >>>anyone else on the List. We have absolutely no way of knowing >>>what the US arsenal holds. These are black projects. How much do >>>you know about the TR3-b? Other then "Alien Rapture" and the various tales and storys spun after that book we really don't even know if the alleged TR3B craft even exists. Another case of somebody claiming something, which can't be verified, but people tout it as fact. >>No way as easy to hide as big a construction project that would >>take hundreds of space craft and make Space Station Freedom look >>like peanuts. >Sorry but the TR3-b seems to exist and what do you know of it? ><snip> >>>>His FBI record indicate that he engaged in >>>>rather juvenile activities, but more seriously that he had >>>>accused people of disloyal activity which the FBI had to check >>>>and found wanting. Essentially Corso was telling storys about other people that when the FBI actually checked the storys out, turned out to be incorrect. >>>I'll be glad to discuss this with you but first you have to >>>prove to me that you've carefully read my rebuttal to Larry >>>Bryant's slanderous remarks. >>>http://www.caus.org/membercomments/mc062900.shtml >>>I've tried to get Bryant to discuss our different takes on this >>>subject, but so far he hasn't bothered to reply. >>I have read your article. Nothing there to discuss. All your >>demands of Larry are met in the files. They speak for >>themselves. >Sure, that's why Larry hasn't bothered answering any of my posts >asking for clarification. >>>>Also, read Corso's book and note the special relationship he had >>>>with Hoover. Then look what Hoover said about him in his FBI >>>>file. >>>And we should believe Hoover? >>You don't seem to get it. There is no special relationship here. >>Corso could have left the FBI out altogether, but he has to make >>up this special relationship with Hoover and the Bureau. >Well I see a relationship and other researchers find a >relationship and the FBI's own files indicate a relationship and >since Col. Corso doesn't seem to be lying then there must be >some other explanation for his mentioning a relationship. Maybe >it's because there really was a relationship. Corso was a rat...according to the FBI. Corso apparently thought something else. >>I think it is well past time for you to end your popping up >>several months after someone has posted Corso's sorry record and >>then starting all over again with these types of statement that >>there is nothing wrong with his relating of his military record >>in his book or that he never lied based on some VSD test. I >>think it is well past time to put this old horse where it >>belongs - out to pasture. >You're certainly entitled to you opinion but I think you're >overlooking and disregarding very important testimony. I've been >defending Col. Corso for some time and plan to continue; so if >you insinuate that he's a liar, you'll hear from me. Ed Bottom line is like AA, MJ-12 and a few others, 10 years from now the subject will still be discussed, no proof or solid evidence will have emerged to verify Corso's story. Personally I am still waiting for Jr to publish all the supporting documents and evidence he claims to have. Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 7 Re: NASA & UFOs? - Garlits From: Don Garlits <garlits@pig.net> Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 08:43:03 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 17:30:15 -0500 Subject: Re: NASA & UFOs? - Garlits >From: Thiago Luiz Ticchetti <thiagolt@opengate.com.br> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 15:13:32 -0300 >Subject: NASA & UFOs? >Hello list >I am writing a book about astronauts, NASA and UFOs and I need >your help. Somebody have information about that? Books with >that subject? Articles or texts? >Thank you very much Information about NASA and UFOs: There is some information on my site: www.garlitsdon.com Don Garlits
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 7 No Water On Mars? From: John W. Auchettl <Praufo@aol.com> Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 09:59:26 EST Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 17:32:07 -0500 Subject: No Water On Mars? No Water On Mars 06 January 2003 AAP http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/common/story_page/0,8033,5803067%5E1702,0 0.html A MELBOURNE geologist believes he's put a dent in NASA's plans to send an expedition to Mars to search for life. University of Melbourne planetary scientist Nick Hoffman has identified gully and channel development near the polar regions of Mars from images taken by the Mars Global Surveyor spacecraft. However, contrary to popular scientific opinion, Dr Hoffmann said the flow was most likely frozen carbon dioxide, not liquid water. Dr Hoffman said the area he had monitored recorded temperatures as low as minus 130 degrees centigrade, a temperature water could not flow at. "These flows cannot possibly be water," Dr Hoffman told AAP. He said his findings, published in the latest edition of the journal Astrobiology, would have serious impacts on the ongoing search for life on Mars. His research presents evidence that substances other than water can flow on Mars and that water is probably the least likely substance to do so. "Without water we cannot have life," Dr Hoffman said. "Despite recent reports of more and more ice on the red planet, NASA has yet to find liquid water." Dr Hoffman, who has been studying Mars for about five years, said his research had been an uphill battle, but he had made significant progress with carbon dioxide models. "People at NASA don't want to hear that there's no water on Mars," he said. "They want it to be `Mars is a wet planet, we'll just go there and dig up some fossils and bring them back'. "If these findings are generally accepted it will impact on NASA's mission. They'll no longer focus on the gullies, they'll have to find somewhere else." Dr Hoffman said he was particularly proud that the discovery had been made by Australian researchers working on a shoestring budget. ALSO SEE: New model for Mars says we probably are alone. 26 March 2002 Melbourne University http://www.unimelb.edu.au/ExtRels/Media/02media/02mar26.html Also with Images. This story can aslo be found in, as yet no links on this story: The Age Melbourne, Victoria 7th Jan 2003 Col 1, Page 2 MORE INFORMATION: Dr Nick Hoffman, School of Earth Sciences, University of Melbourne Telephone: 03 8344 3735 0438 397 366 Email: nhoffman@unimelb.edu.au John W. AUCHETTL Phenomena Research Australia [PRA] P.O. Box 523, Mulgrave, Victoria, Australia, 3170 Australian & Asia UFO 1961-2003 - 42 YEARS OF RESEARCH SERVICE
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 7 Australian Black Projects Worth? From: John W. Auchettl <Praufo@aol.com> Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 10:45:34 EST Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 17:36:06 -0500 Subject: Australian Black Projects Worth? Secret Contracts Top $168m By IAN McPHEDRAN, Defence Reporter Source: Herald Sun - Melbourne, Victoria http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,5801190%255E662,00.htm l DEFENCE has a giant $168 million worth of secret contracts on its books - and taxpayers have no idea what the money is for. All defence contracts worth more than $2000 are supposed to be made public in the Commonwealth Gazette, which documents spending by government. But defence has 301 contracts with private companies, valued at $168 million, that it refuses to provide details for on the grounds of national security. The only way taxpayers can try to uncover these details is by using Freedom of Information laws. But inquiries under those laws can cost thousands of dollars in search and administrative fees. The secretary of defence, or a delegated official, can direct that any contract he or she considers "exempt" not be included in the gazette. At present, that exemption applies to 235 contracts, worth $138.4 million, with the military's purchasing body, known as the Defence Materiel Organisation. The shadowy intelligence and security group holds 37 secret contracts worth $19.4 million and the navy holds 28 valued at $4.5 million. The Chief Finance Officer, the official responsible for managing defence's $18 billion total annual budget, has just one secret contract worth $5.5 million. The 2001-2002 Defence annual report justifies the secret contracts, saying: "It was determined that publication could cause damage to the national security, defence or international relations of the Commonwealth." ~end~ John W. AUCHETTL Phenomena Research Australia [PRA] P.O. Box 523, Mulgrave, Victoria, Australia, 3170 Australian & Asia UFO 1961-2003 - 42 YEARS OF RESEARCH SERVICE
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 7 Re: Comments From Roswell UFO Museum - Sandow From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com> Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 11:24:39 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 17:40:08 -0500 Subject: Re: Comments From Roswell UFO Museum - Sandow >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 04:18:14 EST >Subject: Re: Comments From Roswell UFO Museum >>What follows was sent by Julie Shuster, Director of the Roswell >>International UFO Museum and Research Center and I believe deserves >>to be seen on this List because of all the discussion about Roswell >>related matters. I just got back from Roswell, and had thought of posting something about the UFO situation there. This isn't about Ms. Shuster, or what she was quoted as saying here. She may be right or wrong, but the truth is that the International UFO Museum and Research Center makes a pretty feeble impression. I've been to Roswell several times in the past few years, because my wife's mother and stepfather live there. Her stepfather, in fact, has lived there since 1946. He married my wife's mother around 1980, and they've lived in Roswell together ever since. During my visits, I've gotten to know something about the city, and - to be honest - the UFO situation there is fairly sad. Any city of any reasonable size is going to have a trashy, commerical strip. In New York, where I live, it's Times Square. I live near it, and basically ignore it. In Roswell, this strip is a few blocks on Main Street. The UFO museum is right in the middle of that, and functions basically as a tourist attraction. All around it are cute but basically trashy UFO-related things, like fast food places advertising "Alien Burgers," or a boot store (a very good place to buy boots, by the way) with a flying saucer in its window. The streetlights have alien faces painted on them. It's all cute, at least the first time you see it. But compared with the rest of Roswell, even the rest of MainStreet (a long, commerical section with chains like Target and Sonic), it's pretty trashy. Most Roswell residents pay no attention to it, and when you go outside this little area, you'll see hardly anything related to UFOs. To see the problem with the museum, you have to see what else Roswell offers, and especially its two art museums. These are really top-class institutions, beautifully planned, professionally designed and built, with good (and, in the case of the Anderson Museum of Contemporary Art, really fabulous) collections. The UFO museum, by contrast, looks like an amateur effort. It's well-meaning, and tries to give a balanced, in-depth view of the UFO phenomenon. Probably it has to do the best it can with a very small budget. But that best just isn't very good. Compared to the two art museums, it looks like a high school science project - a very good one, but still far from professional. As a sometime ufologist, I have to say that I'm embarrassed. As a sometime ufologist with Roswell connections, I'm doubly embarrassed. If I want to tell my wife's family why I take UFOs seriously, the very first thing I have to do is explain away the Roswell scene, starting with the museum. I have to tell them not to judge all of ufology by what they see in their home town. I'm sorry to say all this, but unfortunately it's true. Ufology makes a terrible impression in Roswell. If you doubt this, do what I did - spend some time with smart, open-minded Roswell citizens who aren't part of the UFO world, and see what they think. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 7 Re: Corso - Aldrich From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 12:14:53 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 18:06:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Aldrich >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:36:56 -0800 >Subject: Re: Corso >>From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 20:43:5 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Corso >>>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 10:40:41 -0800 >>>Subject: Re: Corso >>Greetings List, >>I will say that Corso always comes back again and again each >>time as I mentioned before set back to zero again just like some >>video game. This thing runs in cycles over and over again the >>evidence that Corso is a liar comes out, everything goes away >>for some months, then we are told that there is no such evidence >>and everything starts up again from zero as if nothing was ever >>posted on this before. ><snip> >>More and more evidence comes into focus which indicates that >>Corso's lack of veracity. See Kevin Randle's post on Kaufmann >>and Corso. ><snip> Corso supports Kaufmann. Kaufmann has been shown to be a fraud. What does that say about Corso? >>>>>Yes, he certainly did but does that automatically make it a lie? >>>>>He said the same thing on Art Bell but the VSA indicates he was >>>>>telling the truth. Now, he may have been mistaken and what he >>>>>thought was a time machine was in fact something else, but he >>>>>was telling the truth as he saw it. >>No, the VSA, as even advocates admit, does not tell if someone >>is lying. >>http://Diogenesgroup.com >>It detect stress in someone's voice. Now I received a long E- >>mail from the president of this company a long time ago, also, >>cc-ed to dozen of other prominent people about how great this >>gadget was and that it could indeed take voice off a radio or TV >>and do a proper analysis, etc., etc. >>However, if you read carefully at the site you will find for >>this item to work as advertised that it the subject must be in >>some kind of jeopardy, because it works on the "fight or flight" >>reaction of the body. Also, there has to be some kind of >>calibration of the device. >>If you carefully read the report on the VSD test done on Corso >>at >>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2000/aug/m16-020.shtml >>you will find that if a group of guys are telling stories over >>beers it can't be analyzed with any effectiveness. Well, what do >>we have here, "Mad Dawg" Art "Pit Bull" Bell, with a known >>reputation for tearing his "guests" to shreds before the >>startled audience's ears and Colonel Dr. John Alexander. >>I have e-mail Alexander back and forth on Corso, Alexander is >>another one who did not "read" Corso's book. He did have a long >>list of questions for "Phil," but never had a chance to ask all >>of them before Corso died. So what do we have? Buds, John and >>Phil appearing in the very friendly Art Bell show, hardly any >>stress or jeopardy in this situation, and, in fact, it is just >>like a bunch of guys talking over beers. Is it any wonder that >>stress can't be detected in the voices? >It is true that the VSA works by examining and measuring the >stress levels in a person's voice. Mike's description is clear >and accurate. He felt that the tape was a good testing situation >and that he'd be able to recognize any attempt at deception by >either Alexander or Corso. Art Bell's questions were >knowledgeable and Alexander's comments were intelligent. He >stated that he had checked out Corso with the Pentagon and found >Corso to be a credible source. Kemp's report is very short, it mostly raves about the wonders of VSA. It says very little about the interview itself. Kemp's promised second more detailed report never appeared. This gives me very little to go on. However, Kemp does indeed make the point about guys having a talk session around beers as being a situation that even the VSA will not work. Well, I am supplying the missing piece here. Alexander and Corso had previously bonded, Alexander is non-threatening to Corso as is Art Bell with his soft-ball style with guests. So we are talking about several "friends" chewing the fat. There is no jeopardy here for Corso or Alexander. >The main reason that you and I disagree is your dismissal of the >VSA evidence. I think it proves that even though Col. Corso made >mistakes, the main thrust of his story is true, at least Corso >thinks that it is true. He is not lying, no matter how many >inconsistencies you throw into the mix. >This was not the first time Mike and I worked together. I hired >him to analyze a video documentary on the bombing of an >environmental activist named Judi Bari. Some friends who knew of >his work and were impressed with his results had given me Mike's >name and contact info. He didn't know one thing about my >investigation, yet he successfully identified the deceptive >testimonies and also indicated who was being truthful. So I know >first hand that VSA is accurate. I decided to have the Bell- >Corso-Alexander tape analyzed because I wanted to know the truth >about Corso. I sent Mike an absolutely new copy that had never >been played before. The total analysis cost about $300. >Do you think I'd spend this kind of money and effort on a lark? >Since the Corso analysis I've had Mike analyze several other >testimonies: >Larry Warren and Peter Robins are not being deceptive. Frank >Kaufmann did give deceptive testimony. So did Glen Dennis. >But the most interesting is Colonel Daniel McGovern. >Some of you may remember him, the military cameraman who >discredited the AA cameraman by saying that his filming >technique was terrible and that all autopsies as important as >the AA would be filmed in color. (How did he know and how many >autopsies had he filmed?) >I dug up some of his video testimony and sent it to Mike. Guess >what? It seems he was being deceptive (except when he's >described his own UFO experience). Again, the interpretation is that deception is being practiced. That is not demonstrated. The VSA picks up stress not lies! Again, the advocates, including Kemp, clearly state that for the VSA to work, there must be some kind of jeopardy for the client so that the "fight or flight" mechanisms is be activated and there needs to be a calibration of this. I don't see much difference here between VSA claims and polygraph claims. How can one objectively evaluate someone's interpretation of the voice stress as lying. I doubt that they can. In the case of the polygraph, it uses intimidation. Excellent liars like Walker and Woolridge quit rather than take a polygraph. Aldrich Ames was no so intimidated. I talked to intelligence and law enforce personnel in the Service who used polygraphs. The intimidation factor was an important thing. The machine either caused the people to act suspiciously or actually confess, while readings were not that useful in actually detecting when someone was trying to be deceptive or lying. >Researchers who have tapes of questionable testimony could >benifit from finding a trustworthy voice-stress analyst and >having their tapes analyzed. I think some may be surprised at >what they find. And I think that people who are not careful here can easily accuse truthful people of lying when it is not so. ><snip> >>The military reflects society, there are injusticies and corrupt >>practices in both. >Here I agree. But I fail to see what this has to do with Col. >Corso. Was he a batalion commander? Did he lie about that? No, but your case which you snip out of here was would the military appoint a liar to such a position and my retort was to give examples where it was done. Being a battalion commander proves nothing. If one who does a credible job obviously enhances his reputation for reliability. >>>>>>Corso claimed that >>>>>>Birnes stroked the book and there were some inaccuracies in the >>>>>>book that he couldn't correct do to some contractual obligation >>>>>>he was under. Birnes claimed that the book is a faithful >>>>>>reproduction of every word that fell out of Corso's mouth, >>>>>>further that Birnes had it all on tape. Further that Corso had >>>>>>read the manuscript and galley proofs of the book a number of >>>>>>times and had approved what was written in the book. Birnes had >>>>>>all of the material on tape for 3 (thats right three) Corso >>>>>>books. I notice that Birnes has been in no hurry to do the other >>>>>>two books. >>Yes, and Corso and Barnes were interviewed together by >>Linderman. No problems there. Corso said nothing about things in >>the book being wrong. >Phil Jr. told me that his dad began discovering mistakes and >trying to correct them. He didn't say whose mistakes they were >but he was trying to get them corrected. I suppose that as >critics pointed out obvious flaws, Col. Corso began to realize >that he had made some mistakes on dates and other historical >facts. I am not talking about mistakes, in my previous posts I documented outright lies. Conveniently you have snipped all of them out. Are you trying to absolve Corso using the magic VSA box while deleting examples of lying? Now what does that say about your mode of argument!? >My point is that the seeding of alien technology, which is the >main point of the book can not be a mistake. Either it's the >truth or a lie and a hoax. There is not one shred of historical >evidence that Col. Corso would do anything like that. Remember, >he "walked with giants". Would Richard Russell, the chairman of >the senate intelligence committee, hire Col. Corso to >investigate the Kennedy assassination if he thought he were a >fraud and a liar? Well, Ed, you have not demonstrated that you have any particular knowledge of the history of science and technology. There is no evidence of discontinuity in the march of science and engineering in the areas Corso claimed he seeded. If you know of one, please let us here about it in detail. This puts the onus squarely were it should be. It is not required that anyone, disprove anything about Corso, simply that advocates must prove their case which has never been done. >>Well, I don't think you got your money's worth. Nor does it >>trump documented proof of Corso's lying. How about another one? >>His confrontation with a CIA official who wasn't even in >>Washington at the time in a building not built at the time. How >>many of these do we need? >There is documented proof that Col Corso made mistakes but not >that he lied. A lie is intentional; mistakes are not. I think >there's a big difference. Thank you, Bill Clinton! A lie is a lie. If you want to parse words, go ahead. Your credibility suffers. Corso knowing told readers that he was a full Colonel and head of the Foreign Technology section for two years. Both lies. Birnes is not responsible, these came from Corso's own mouth and own pen. Ditto his claim of being on the NSA. >>If you and Robert want to have a private discussion on Corso, be >>my guest, however, this is an open forum in case you had >>noticed. One had better expect to get challenged here. >>I notice that Mike Kemp's more detailed report never appeared! >Mike became ill (he has diabetes) and I told him to forget it >since I had enough information. This was quite some time ago, has he recovered? >But I did see a rough draft and the results were exactly the >same: No deception! No lies! Both Corso and Alexander were cool, >calm and collected. Just like people talking over a couple of beers. >>>I'll answer your post, but unless I see some mutual respect, >>>it's the last response you'll get from me. >>Don't do me any favors. You have never had any respect for me. >>Have constant denigrating my background and saying I don't >>understand how intelligence works or how things are done on this >>level. I am sorry but this guy was not Riley Ace of Spies, just >>a light colonel with a big mouth. >You need to do more research. Dig a little deeper and you'll be >surprised at what you find. I submit that I have dug far deeper than you ever had. Again, what is your particular expertise and experience that we should just take your word for it!? >>>>Is there a giant space-based anti-ET weapons system which is >>>>keeping the evil ET at bay the result of efforts unknown to him >>>>at the time >>>I've no answer to that question nor do you; this holds true for >>>anyone else on the List. We have absolutely no way of knowing >>>what the US arsenal holds. These are black projects. How much do >>>you know about the TR3-b? >>No way as easy to hide as big a construction project that would >>take hundreds of space craft and make Space Station Freedom look >>like peanuts. >Sorry but the TR3-b seems to exist and what do you know of it? Nothing, again, the TR3-b nor the SR-71 are not on the scale of a giant space based defense holding off the evil ET! ><snip> >>>>His FBI record indicate that he engaged in >>>>rather juvenile activities, but more seriously that he had >>>>accused people of disloyal activity which the FBI had to check >>>>and found wanting. >>>I'll be glad to discuss this with you but first you have to >>>prove to me that you've carefully read my rebuttal to Larry >>>Bryant's slanderous remarks. >>>http://www.caus.org/membercomments/mc062900.shtml >>>I've tried to get Bryant to discuss our different takes on this >>>subject, but so far he hasn't bothered to reply. >>I have read your article. Nothing there to discuss. All your >>demands of Larry are met in the files. They speak for >>themselves. >Sure, that's why Larry hasn't bothered answering any of my posts >asking for clarification. Again, the answers you asked of Larry are indeed contained in the FBI files.... >>>>Also, read Corso's book and note the special relationship he had >>>>with Hoover. Then look what Hoover said about him in his FBI >>>>file. >>>And we should believe Hoover? >>You don't seem to get it. There is no special relationship here. >>Corso could have left the FBI out altogether, but he has to make >>up this special relationship with Hoover and the Bureau. >Well I see a relationship and other researchers find a >relationship and the FBI's own files indicate a relationship and >since Col. Corso doesn't seem to be lying then there must be >some other explanation for his mentioning a relationship. Maybe >it's because there really was a relationship. That is about the most circular argument I have every heard. Hoover and others call Corso's bluff over and over again. His book mentions a special collegiate relationship with Hoover which obviously did not exist. The FBI files mention Corso's accusations of disloyalty which could not be substantiated by FBI investigation. >>I think it is well past time for you to end your popping up >>several months after someone has posted Corso's sorry record and >>then starting all over again with these types of statement that >>there is nothing wrong with his relating of his military record >>in his book or that he never lied based on some VSD test. I >>think it is well past time to put this old horse where it >>belongs - out to pasture. >You're certainly entitled to you opinion but I think you're >overlooking and disregarding very important testimony. I've been >defending Col. Corso for some time and plan to continue; so if >you insinuate that he's a liar, you'll hear from me. Ed. One finally thought: This UpDates answer has been better sanitized that any Blue Book file, any CIA document or any NSA release. Note that nearly every example of Corso's falsehoods have been deleted. Please note I called Corso the Savior of Mankind. You retorted that was a "cheap shot". Hardly, when I quoted Corso, right back at you, calling him Savior of Mankind in all but name only. Notice how that this non-cheap shot has been deleted from your answer. Thanks for proving something that one doesn't need a VSA to see, difficult issues are easily edited out of E-mail discussions and then either ignored or obfuscated. I don't know which is worse government obfuscation or obfuscation by self- styled ufologists. I detest both! Jan Aldrich Project 1947 http://www.project1947.com/ P. O. Box 391 Canterbury, CT 06331 (860) 546-9135
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 7 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 2 From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 18:59:21 +0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 18:08:58 -0500 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 2 Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor. <Masinaigan@aol.com> ========================== UFO ROUNDUP Volume 8, Number 2 January 8, 2003 Editor: Joseph Trainor http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/ RETIRED GENERAL SAYS HE ENCOUNTERED A GIGANTIC UFO IN NORTHERN CHILE A retired Chilean air force general said last week that he and his wingman had encountered an immense UFO while on a training flight over northern Chile twenty- five years ago. "In an interview with Terra-Chile, retired general Hernan Gabrieli Rojas mentioned that he had 'squared off' against a gigantic UFO while while engaged in a training flght in the skies of northern Chile." According to Gabrieli Rojas, who retired after a long career wth the Fuerzas Aereas de Chile (FACh or Chilean Air Force--J.T.), "the object was the size of 10 to 15 aircraft carriers, and its presence was picked up by the radars aboard the two F-5 jet fighters as well as the Cerro Moreno airport in Antofagasta." The incident took place in 1978, Gabrieli Rojas said, "'I was a captain and was flying a mission with two F-5 fighters. It was noon, and I was flying with Captain Danilo Catalan (his wingman--J.T.). We were both flight instructors. Accompanying us was Fernando Gomez, an aviation technician, and another trainee. The F-5 is radar-equipped, and a line appeared from side to side--in other words, a trace across the bottom of the (radar) screen. A trace for a surface ship, a carrier, is approximately one centimeter (0.4 inches) long, but this line went from one side of the screen to the other.'" "'I assumed the radar scope had failed and told Danilo Catalan, but his radar had also 'failed.' I then advised the ground radar at Antofagasta, and they picked up the line. We were flying from north to south in the vicinity of Mejillones and saw a deformed cigar-shaped object. Deformed, like a plantain banana. It was swathed in smoke.'" The UFO "'was large and must have been 25 to 32 kilometers (15 to 20 miles) away. It moved in the same direction as us. We had no missiles, guns or anything. As you can imagine, the fright was more or less considerable. We could see a large thing surrounded in smoke and from which a vapor issued. The whole incident must have lasted about five minutes. We approached the UFO but it was motionless--it merely stood parallel to us. It was quite impressive because it was truly something strange, and something could be seen in concealment behind the smoke.'" "'The object then disappeared (west) towards Easter Island at an impressive rate of speed. The sky cleared and the lines on our radar vanished. However, there had been an object physically flying there. It's not a yarn, let me tell you. It was my only experience with UFOs.'" (See OVNIvision Chile for December 26, 2002. Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales y Cristian Riffo del grupo OVNIvision Chile para eso informe.) THREE UFOs SIGHTED IN NEW SOUTH WALES A family reunion turned into a startling UFO encounter in Australia's state of New South Wales. David M. reports, "I had travelled from Sydney for a traditional Christmas Day gathering with my family in Wellington, New South Wales." Two days after Christmas, on Friday, December 27, 2002, David decided to go fishing with his cousin, D.G., and his uncle, B.G., and the trio "headed for an exclusive location along the Macquarie River near Terrabella and Ponto, west of Geurie, N.S.W.," about 300 kilometers (180 miles) northwest of Sydney. (Editor's Note: Right now it's midsummer in Australia and the other countries of the southern hemisphere.) "With my cousin, D.G., and my uncle, B.G., I'd been moving up and down the river in a small boat, from about 2 p.m. to about midnight. The stars became our natural light on the river that night. We couldn't see the moon; therefore the stars were very bright." "Around 10 p.m., I started to do some star-watching" and saw "a moving star. This moving star was heading south at the time. But I thought to myself...Just another satellite...and I didn't make much of it." "But about 10:30 p.m. that night, my star-watching became more of a mystery. I saw three moving stars together." Soon David was "grabbing the attention of my cousin and uncle with screams of 'Look! Look up there! What is that!?'" "Together we watched three fast-moving stars travelling from the southwest heading northeast for approximately one minute. They formed a perfect triangle, two travelling in front and one travelling behind. The last moving star then pulled back from the leaders, whilst one of the leaders also pulled back into the middle position. This new positioning happened during a five-second time frame; then the moving stars went back to their original triangle position." "We chatted amongst ourselves about what we just saw, and we don't have any explanation for the event other than a UFO sighting. They were constantly changing colour from a white to an orange-red. They were about four times as fast as a Boeing 747." (Estimated speed: 1,800 miles per hour--J.T.) (Email Form Report) PUERTO RICAN FIND MAY BE AN EXTINCT SPECIES The mysterious small dead animal found under a house in Utuado, Puerto Rico on Christmas Eve may be a rodent from a species that has been officially extinct for the past five hundred years. On Tuesday, December 24, 2002, six-year-old Angel Oquendo and his ten-year-old brother, Sixto Oquendo, found a strange-looking small dead animal under their house in the Canalizo section of Utuado, P.R. Word spread quickly that they had found "a dead Chupacabra." Authorities have been unable to positively identify the mysterious creature. "While the bones of a strange creature found on Christmas Eve" at Utuado "in the center of the island await examination by a qualified professional, its possible identity could be found in books." "The animal's characteristics could confirm the existence of the jutia. a species believed to be extinct in the country and which is studied in pre-Columbian history classes as one of the species dwelling on the island alongside the Taino Indians. This creature, also known as the hutia, futia and dantia was native to the Caribbean in pre-Columbian times and was a main source of nourishment to the aboriginal (Taino) people of the time." "Some historians describe the animal as a rodent with a delicious flavor and also tell that hunting and consumption hastened its extinction." "Although there are few representations or illustrations that describe the jutia, it still exists in (other Caribbean) countries such as Haiti, the Bahamas, Cuba and the Dominican Republic, albeit in small numbers. In the Haitian case, international reports suggest that it is in danger of being exterminated due to habitat reduction, which consists mainly of tree trunks and branches in dry and wet forests." "The jutias are the source of at least 14 species which managed to spread over the various islands of the Antilles, but only three are known to survive. They are catalogued according to size, for which the jutias or Solenodon paradoxus represents the medium-sized rodents, in other words, standing as tall as five centimeters (2 inches)." "Author Nelson Rafael Collazo points out in his book, Images of the Puerto Rican Indians, that these animals were hunted for their high protein value and to catch them they (the Tainos) employed arrows and were aided by dogs. In this regard, it contrasts with other versions that claim the dogs were imported by the Spaniards." (Editor's Comment: Mastiffs may have been imported by the Spaniards, but dogs had been used as beasts of burden and hunting companions by the indigenous people of the Americas for centuries.) "What has been found regarding the jutias' alimentary habits includes that it preferred rodents, small reptiles and some birds. However, available information and illustrations to not specify the detailed physical aspects of the animal, and it is therefore impossible to classify the odd specimen found under the struts of the recently-built house" in Utuado, P.R. "and which appears to have died only recently, as a pre- Columbian fossil." (See the Puerto Rican newspaper Primera Hora for December 30, 2002, "'Chupacabra' resembles extinct animal." Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales y Dr. Jose I. Gomez para eso articulo de diario. See also UFO Roundup, volume 8, number 1 for January 1, 2003, "Dead Chupacabra found in Puerto Rico?" page ) UFO ACTIVITY REMAINS HIGH IN BRITISH COLUMBIA UFO activity continues at a high level of intensity in Canada's western province of British Columbia. According to Canadian ufologist Brian Vike, on Friday, December 27, 2002, "four men were working around the logging camp just across Babine Lake from Granisle, B.C." when "one of the workers gave out a loud cry, telling the others to look. Half a kilometer to the north, they all witnessed a bright, white-yellowish light coming from behind the trees. At that point, all that was visible was a brightness showing above the trees." "To their shock, a large, glowing, golden-orange, disk-shaped object, with a large halo of white around the craft, rose up in the distance and stopped and hovered." Vike was "told they observed the object for approximately 10 seconds, at the most, which the fellow said 'seemed like a lifetime.'" "As the object moved away from their location, heading roughly to the north, they lost sight of the craft quickly. But after losing sight of the object itself, they still could see the bright light (halo) 'for another five minutes. The light moved faster and disappeared.'" Vike said the old Bell copper mine at Babine Lake was the site of a UFO sighting on October 22, 2002. Also, he reported that he has investigated 120 UFO cases in northern British Columbia during the year 2002. Elsewhere in the province, on Friday, January 3, 2003, Darcy C. spotted a UFO in Delta, B.C. She reported, "The UFO approached from the north. It looked like a big tube moving across the sky. A silver cylinder with two windows that were coloured black. I could hear sounds like a loud beeping noise." The UFO passed overhead "about 20 meters (66 feet) up and was moving at the speed of a jet," she added. (Many thanks to Brian Vike and Darcy C. for these reports.) SPHERICAL UFO SEEN IN UPSTATE NEW YORK On Tuesday, December 31, 2002, at 11:30 p.m., S.M.F. and her friend were walking along Stony Brook in Oxyhead, New York when they noticed a strange object approaching from the north. "I had to drop something off with one of my friends," she explained, "I was walking that night with my friend. The UFO hovered over a baseball field and playground right across from the Knolls," near Stony Brook. "The UFO was spherical, and it had blue and green lights flashing. It reminded me of the red circle on a Coca Cola truck." The girls watched the UFO for a couple of minutes before it suddenly darted away. (Email Form Report) COUPLE SEES A UFO NEAR MARSHFIELD, WISCONSIN On Thursday, December 26, 2002, Kat. R. reported, "My husband and I were traveling north from Wisconsin Rapids where we had purchased a snowmobile that evening. We decided to go to Abbotsford (Wisconsin) and then west to Chippewa Falls (Wisconsin) and then on to Duluth (Minnesota). The sky was very clear, all the stars visible and tiny airplanes all around like twinkling red and green stars, all very distant. The Big Dipper (constellation Ursa Major--J.T.) was directly ahead." "We were somewhere north of Marshfield (population 18,800) when at 8:50 p.m. we saw a round, green-colored object that came from the left side of the windshield view (west--J.T.), and our first thought was that we were going to witness the crash of something as it was coming in at an angle of left to right, top to bottom across the windshield!" "We realized it couldn't be a plane as there was only the green color. There was no pulsing or flashing or quirky moves, just the same speed, almost like slow motion in a sense, although we were so locked into what we were seeing, time seemed to stand still. Tail like a comet, no flames, and close enough, it seemed, that were it a plane, we could've seen the shape of the tail, etc." "At the time we were driving on a slight S-curve and coming up an incline with a bank of trees on the right. I watched to the east all the way to Abbotsford, with nothing further to be seen." "As we discussed the (object's) size, we felt that it you held your hand at arm's length toward the windshield with a dime in your hand, you would have the approximate size of the object we saw." (Many thanks to John Hoppe of UFO Wisconsin for this report.) CAR STRUCK BY A TINY UFO IN BENSON, NORTH CAROLINA "A Wilmington woman says her car was hit by an unidentified flying object on (Interstate Highway) I-40 near Benson," North Carolina (population 2,923) on Sunday, December 29, 2002. "The object, which appeared to be black in color and about the size of a walnut. seemingly fell from the sky, a witness said." "Linda Moore said she was driving her new Toyota Avalon west on I-40 when the object hit the passenger side of her car." "The woman sitting in the front passenger seat, Mrs. Moore's cousin, Vicki Wright, reported that a black object traveling very fast approached from above a tall pine tree and hit the car just in front of the mirror. The incident happened at about 4:20 p.m." "Ms. Wright said the object was moving so fast that she did not have time to make a warning, according to Mrs. Moore. The impact made a loud noise that startled everyone in the vehicle, she said. Mrs. Moore's two nieces, ages 13 and 14, were also in the back seat of the car. She said her older niece also saw the object that struck the car." "'If you saw the dent in my car, you could tell whatever it was was coming real fast,' Mrs. Moore said." "She said she did not actually see the damage until she stopped at a gas station at McGee's Crossroads. She said the object gouged a large dent in her car and scratched off paint." "Mrs. Moore said she has contacted her insurance company but does not know yet how much it will cost to repair the damage. Mrs. Moore said she is at a loss at explaining the object that hit her car, but she is not ruling out extraterrestrial origins." "'I said to Vicki, 'You might think I'm crazy, but I think this could have been an asteroid or something coming from the sky,' Mrs. Moore said." "'Lord, I had to call in a claim on this. I know it sounds stupid,' Mrs. Moore said." "Mrs. Moore contacted the Daily Record after reading a story January 1 (2003) reporting that an 8-year-old girl on Aquila Road near Benson, N.C. was struck in the leg by an unknown, unidentified projectile. The girl sustained superficial wounds, according to Lt. Fred Dees of the Johnston County Sheriff's Office." "Lt. Dees said there was no evidence that the girl was hit by a bullet, but he said he was not ruling out the possibility." Benson, N.C. is on Highway 301 about 30 miles (48 kilometers) south of Raleigh, the state capital. (See the Dunn, N.C. Daily Record for January 3, 2002, "Car hit by UFO on I-40." Many thanks to John Hayes for forwarding this newspaper article.) (Editor's Note: In Forteana, the phenomenon in Benson would fall under the heading of phantom sniper rather than UFO encounter. The projectiles are too small to be vehicles of any kind. Classic phenomena of this sort took place in Glassboro, New Jersey in February 1916 and in Camden, New Jersey in February 1928. For details, see The Complete Books of Charles Fort, Dover Publications, New York, N.Y., 1974, pages 893 and 894.) ORANGE-RED UFO SIGHTED IN POWERS, OKLAHOMA On Sunday, December 29, 2002, at 1:40 a.m., D.J. Gillett "and a companion were on some land close to Highway 81, about a mile out of Powers, Okla., which is 25 miles (40 kilometers) west of Oklahoma City. At 1:40 a.m., we had just turned onto (Highway) 81 facing north and a bright orange-red object appeared in the sky. We had been out driving and watching for tornadoes, and the appearance of the object was quite evident in the overcast sky." (Editor's Note: The USA's state of Oklahoma has more tornadoes annually than any other state. For this reason, Oklahoma is sometimes called "Tornado Alley.") "I should stress that the object simply appeared. It did not drift in from the horizon or zoom into sight. It simply appeared instantly in the sky, but this is only my perception." "Well, the object initially appeared as a point of light and gradually grew in intensity for 40 to 50 seconds until it was twice as bright as the brightest star in the sky. At this point, it suddenly 'separated' into two other lights." "When the object separated, it produced a brilliant burst of orange-red light with a touch of white. But this could be a simple misperception on my part as we were having difficulty viewing it properly due to clouds. The objects then took off at an incredible speed and vanished off towards the south on parallel courses." He described the two objects as "orange-red in color, spherical, no reflective field. No evidence of light scatter. The new objects remained uniform, spherical and the same color but duller in appearance." (Email Form Report) NOAH, START BUILDING ANOTHER ARK! "A natural cycle of thawing may cause an Antarctic ice sheet as big as Texas and Colorado combined to melt away in 7,000 years, possibly causing a worldwide sea level rise of 16 feet (5 meters)." "In a study in the journal Science, researchers say geochemical measurements of when mountainside rocks first became free of ice near the South Pole show that the West Antarctic Ice Sheet began melting about 10,000 years ago (at the end of the Pleistocene Period, better known as the Ice Age--J.T.) and is still shrinking." "Over thousands of years, the ice has retreated at the rate of about two inches (5 centimeters) a year in a steady pattern that shows no sign of slowing, says John Stone, an author of the study and a professor of geology at the University of Washington-Seattle." "If the sheet does melt entirely, he says, global sea level could rise about 16 feet, enough to drown some islands and coastal areas." "Stone says the study cannot prove or disprove that the melting resulted from global warming, a gradual increase in temperatures that some scientists believe is accelerated by the burning of fossil fuels. Instead, he says, the researchers have measured what is apparently a natural cycle of ice buildup and melting that may have been going on for millions of years." (See USA Today for January 6, 2003, "Melting ice sheet could raise seas 16 feet," page 6D.) From the UFO Files... 1885: THE STRANGE DOOM OF MRS. ROONEY "Cases of spontaneous human combustion (SHC) are rare and mysterious phenomena. Scientists have puzzled for years over just what causes a person to suddenly and inexplicably burst into flame and become a heap of ashes in a matter of minutes. Even more bizarre is the fact that highly flammable materials near the person may not burn at all." In the USA, "one of the strangest cases of death by (spontaneous) human combustion came on (December 24) Christmas Eve, 1885, in Seneca, Illinois," a small town located about 50 miles (80 kilometers) southwest of Chicago. "Patrick Rooney and his wife, a large woman of over 200 pounds, were sharing a jug of whiskey with their hired man, John Larson. They sat around the kitchen table in their small farmhouse until Larson, only lightly inebriated, retired to his upstairs bedroom, pleading drowsiness. Rooney and his wife continued drinking." "Early on Christmas Day (December 25, 1885), Larson awoke extremely ill. He stumbled down the stairs toward the kitchen for a drink of water and some fresh air." "Noticing a smoky haze as he made way into the kitchen, he tried to strike a match on the kitchen range so he could light the kerosene lamp. The match just slid across the surface. A dark, soot-like grease coated the stove and everything else in the kitchen." "Larson groped his way to the first-floor bedroom shared by Rooney and his wife. Inside, he found Patrick Rooney dead on the floor, his coat and boots on a nearby chair." "The hired man shouted for Mrs. Rooney, but there was no reply. He quickly dressed and saddled a horse to ride for Rooney's son, who lived on a nearby farm." The son, Todd Rooney, John Larson "and a neighbor returned to the house. The trio made their way back into the soot-encrusted kitchen where they discovered a hole in the floor near the table. The men peered into the opening. By the flickering lamp Todd held, the men saw, to their horror, on the exposed cellar floor below, a foot, part of a (human) vertebra, a shrunken, burned skull and a heap of ashes." Dr. Floyd Clendens, the county coroner, "identified the remains as those of the unfortunate Mrs. Rooney, but an inquest found only part of an answer to what happened." "Patrick Rooney had died of smoke inhalation, of that there was little doubt. John Larson (had) escaped death by sleeping behind a closed door on the second floor." But Dr. Clendens "was stumped to explain the cause of Mrs. Rooney's grotesque demise. He determined that a fire strong enough to have left so few remains must have burned for several minutes at over 2,500 degrees Fahrenheit. Yet the only signs of fire were the hole in the (kitchen) floor, some scorch marks on the kitchen table and the sooty substance covering the kitchen furnishings." "Dr. Clendens read some accounts of spontaneous human combustion to the jury at the inquest, but they adjourned, bewildered by the case. In fact, a satisfactory answer to these peculiar deaths has not been found." The Rooney SHC mystery was never solved. (See the book Haunted Heartland by Beth Scott and Michael Norman, Barnes & Noble Books, New York, N.Y., 1985, pages 50 to 52.) Well, that's it for this week. Join us in seven days for more UFO, Fortean and paranormal news from around the planet Earth, brought to you by "the paper that goes home--UFO Roundup." See you next time! UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2003 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post news items from UFO Roundup on their websites or in news groups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue in which the item first appeared. E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com> or use the Sighting Report Form at: http://www.ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Website comments: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> UFOINFO: http://www.ufoinfo.com Official Archives of UFO Roundup, AUFORN Australian UFO Reports and Experiences, UFO + PSI Magazine, plus archives of Filer's Files, Oz Files, UFO News UK and UFO Sightings Italia. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- UFO Roundup is only sent to subscribers. If you wish to unsubscribe or feel you have received the bulletin in error, please write to: <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> With the subject: Unsubscribe UFO Roundup. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 8 World Exclusive From UFO Magazine UK From: Mark Doulton <doults@tiscali.co.uk> Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 23:55:58 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 09:27:54 -0500 Subject: World Exclusive From UFO Magazine UK Needless to say we will be visiting this event and will let you know how good these images are. Also, we have seen another UFO in Rendlesham forest (last weekend) and another group member had a sighting over Basildon in Essex this afternoon. Drawings of the objects will be distributed very soon. One of which is very interesting indeed. Without doubt the local area has seen some very strange objects in the skies. Mark Doulton Southend UFO & Paranormal Group ----- From: Graham W. Birdsall Editor UFO Magazine UK Date: 07 January 2003 17:53:50 To: Administrator Subject: WORLD EXCLUSIVE FROM UFO MAGAZINE UK Euroseti To Reveal Startling Ufo Images At The National Space Centre! A full-page advertisement in the January 2003 issue of UFO Magazine has generated considerable interest amongst the UFO community. It refers to an event taking place on the weekend of 24-27 January, when some extraordinary satellite images of anomalous objects will be screened at the National Space Centre in Leicester. The screenings will be held on the evenings of Friday, Saturday and Sunday, with each commencing at 7.30pm. For the past two years, hundreds of extraordinary UFO-like images have been gleaned by a Spanish-based team using two space-based satellites and which defy explanation. NASA initially tried to explain the images away as pixel faults, passing meteors or asteroids, etc., but when a European-led consortium presented them with images that clearly were none of the aforementioned, they 'clamped up'. On Tuesday, 7 January 2003, Mr. Mike Murray, one of the founders of EUROSETI, visited the offices of UFO Magazine to conduct a WORLD EXCLUSIVE filmed interview. With his kind permission, that interview - which features a healthy selection of these images - can now be viewed on our website. www.ufomag.co.uk/euroseti.htm Those wishing to attend the lectures at Britain's National Space Centre in Leicester should book their seat a.s.a.p. with EUROSETI. Tickets are =A320.00 each and available NOW! Note that each ticket holder will receive a FREE CD containing all of the EUROSETI images, including a vast range of computer analysed enhancements. The EUROSETI ticket hotline number is: 01733 293720.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 8 Re: Corso - Sandow From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com> Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 18:49:44 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 09:53:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Sandow >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 00:52:18 EST >Subject: Re: Corso >>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:36:56 -0800 >>Subject: Re: Corso >>he "walked with giants". Would Richard Russell, the chairman of >>the senate intelligence committee, hire Col. Corso to >>investigate the Kennedy assassination if he thought he were a >>fraud and a liar? Gosh, would Nixon have picked Agnew as his vice president if he'd known Agnew was a crook? (Agnew, for those who might not remember, was forced to resign the vice presidency.) We all know that the American government and military - surely all governments and all militaries - has a fair number of less than honest people. Every president I can remember has lost one or more cabinet members after scandals came out. All these dishonest people in the government and military had someone appoint or elect them. It's silly - no other word will do - to get pious about someone we want to defend, by saying they'd never have reached their high positions if they'd been dishonest. History, not to mention the daily newspaper, shows otherwise. (Would all those top Enron executives have been given their high positions if they'd been dishonest?) Would Richard Russell have appointed Corso if he'd thought Corso was a fraud? Maybe not, but Corso, unknown to Russell, could have been a fraud anywhere. The most striking example I've found, by the way, is General Douglas Macarthur, the World War II legend who initially led the U.S. forces in the Korean War. Over the summer, I read a book on that war, and apparently Macarthur lied constantly, to the Joint Chiefs of Staff (his superiors in Washington), to the president, and to the press and the public. He simply couldn't be trusted - and yet he was one of the highest-ranking men in the U.S. military. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 8 Re: C.E.: Interesting UFO Photos/Story - Maccabee From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 18:49:48 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 10:16:32 -0500 Subject: Re: C.E.: Interesting UFO Photos/Story - Maccabee >From: Todd Lemire <tlemire@comcast.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 13:48:43 -0500 >Subject: Re: C.E.: Interesting UFO Photos/Story >>From: Tom Bowden <tomrbowden@yahoo.com> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 22:08:47 -0800 (PST) >>Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: C.E.: Interesting UFO Photos/Story >>>From: Chaz Stuart <Daydisk2@WEBTV.NET> >>>To: CURRENT-ENCOUNTERS@LISTSERV.AOL.COM >>>Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 01:17:57 -0500 >>>Subject: Interesting UFO Photos/Story >>>This _seems_ to be legit..... >>>Go to: http://www.mccurtain.com/mthermanufo.htm >>Someone should take a closer look at the three photographs and >>try to enlarge the blue object. In the first two photos, I >>suspect a lens-flare or "sun dog". The third looks more >>interesting. I have never seen anything like the cloud anomaly, >>but when you talked to the weather person, you should have asked >>if they had any doppler radar images for that area which showed >>any high-energy weather affects. Could some kind of clear-air >>turbulence cause such a cloud formation? >Take a look here: >http://www.michiganufos.com/images/MichiganFermiII.jpg >This is also a digital photo. >Take a look here http://www.michiganufos.com/images/17831789r.jpg >Here are more of those mysterious 'blue balls'. I would bet 90 >to nothing these are digital lens flares. The story behind these >photos can be found here: >http://www.michiganufos.com/nuclearfacilityufos.html I looked at these pictures. The hole in the cloud is amusing, but I've seen holes in clouds... without blue balls (ahem!). The comparison shots mentioned above (MichiganFermiII, etc) demonstrate that lens flares can take unusual shapes and have color aberration. If a bright light (e.g. sunlight) hits even a small portion of the camera lens, light starts bouncing around in the optical system and, depending upon the spectral reflectivity of the lens coatings and transmission of the glass, it can be color shifted as well as distorted in shape.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 8 Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - Maccabee From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 18:49:45 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 10:18:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - Maccabee >From: Todd Lemire <tlemire@comcast.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 12:45:40 -0500 >Subject: Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? >>From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 16:40:21 -0000 >>Subject: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? >>Jenny Randles wrote an excellent article for EYE magazine, which >>is now up at their website at: >>http://www.hufos1.karoo.net >>It is quite critical of ufology, but does make some suggestions >>as to the way forward. Just to give you a taste, read the >>following quote: >>"So UFOlogy will never go back to the way it was. It has changed, >>forever, and the UFO community that once controlled what was said >>and done has lost the say in its own subject. Indeed, UFOlogists >>have almost become an irrelevance - at best lumbering behind a >>litany of advertisers,hype merchants, web site designers, and >>sci-fi entrepreneurs."> >None on the 'lecture circuit', and very few on this list can do >as Jenny says and ..."prove rational objectivity and a desire to >stay out of the public limelight." >The 'web' should be, among other things, a "diagnostic tool" for >the ufologist, as Jenny suggests, which has the ability of... >"suggesting options to be investigated during a sighting." I >would've liked to have seen some website suggestions in this >thread that supported this, but are there any? I can't, off the >top of my head, think of a UFO website that _focuses_ on both >'investigative resources' and 'sighting reports'. Where are >these comprehensive ufo sites that provide ready access to both? >I didn't see any discussion regarding the necessary steps and >requirements to develop such a site. Does my site fit into your search for a site that "focuses on both investigative resources and sighting reports?" I should point out that I have not attempted to compile a large data base of sightings and I don't include collections or "masses" of sightings just to have a bunch of sightings on my site. Rather, what is there are sightings I have investigated in order to determine whether or not there are unexplainable sightings. _If_ there are (and I have concluded that there are), _then_ it makes some sense to speculate, but I have left most of the speculation to others. http://brumac.8k.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 8 Re: NASA & UFOs? - Maccabee From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 18:49:51 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 10:20:05 -0500 Subject: Re: NASA & UFOs? - Maccabee >From: Thiago Luiz Ticchetti <thiagolt@opengate.com.br> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 15:13:32 -0300 >Subject: NASA & UFOs? >Hello list >I am writing a book about astronauts, NASA and UFOs and I need >your help. Somebody have information about that? Books with >that subject? Articles or texts? I suggest you be careful not to include "sightings" which are likely results of lens flares, debris near the spacecraft, etc. There is at least one guaranteed sighting with photos: Gemini 11 taken in Sept., 1966. See it at my web site: http://brumac.8k.com. Even Oberg couldn't explain that one.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 8 Re: Corso - Gehrman From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 17:21:02 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 10:23:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Gehrman >From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 12:14:53 -0500 >Subject: Re: Corso >>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:36:56 -0800 >>Subject: Re: Corso >>>From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 20:43:5 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: Corso >>>>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> >>>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>>Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 10:40:41 -0800 >>>>Subject: Re: Corso >Corso supports Kaufmann. Kaufmann has been shown to be a fraud. >What does that say about Corso? Corso has no first hand knowledge of what happened at Roswell; He admits to that. Do you mean the shape of the craft? >Kemp's report is very short, it mostly raves about the wonders >of VSA. It says very little about the interview itself. Kemp's >promised second more detailed report never appeared. This gives >me very little to go on. However, Kemp does indeed make the >point about guys having a talk session around beers as being a >situation that even the VSA will not work. >Well, I am supplying the missing piece here. Alexander and Corso >had previously bonded, Alexander is non-threatening to Corso as >is Art Bell with his soft-ball style with guests. So we are >talking about several "friends" chewing the fat. There is no >jeopardy here for Corso or Alexander. Your characterization is not correct. It was stressful; Alexander and Corso were not buddies. >Again, the interpretation is that deception is being practiced. >That is not demonstrated. The VSA picks up stress not lies! >Again, the advocates, including Kemp, clearly state that for the >VSA to work, there must be some kind of jeopardy for the client >so that the "fight or flight" mechanisms is be activated and >there needs to be a calibration of this. A liar will show stress. And the VSA will pick that up. It's very effective. >I don't see much difference here between VSA claims and >polygraph claims. How can one objectively evaluate someone's >interpretation of the voice stress as lying. I doubt that they >can. In the case of the polygraph, it uses intimidation. >Excellent liars like Walker and Woolridge quit rather than take >a polygraph. Aldrich Ames was no so intimidated. I talked to >intelligence and law enforce personnel in the Service who used >polygraphs. The intimidation factor was an important thing. The >machine either caused the people to act suspiciously or actually >confess, while readings were not that useful in actually >detecting when someone was trying to be deceptive or lying. Yes that can explain some of the success but when employers are conducting employee screening using polygraph's or VSA, these tactics are not employed and the success rate seems to justify the additional expense that the employer pays for the service. If they didn't work, they wouldn't be used. At $500 to a $1000 a pop, effectiveness is usually a prime concern. In other words, would they be used if they didn't work? >>Researchers who have tapes of questionable testimony could >>benifit from finding a trustworthy voice-stress analyst and >>having their tapes analyzed. I think some may be surprised at >>what they find. >And I think that people who are not careful here can easily >accuse truthful people of lying when it is not so. Now that's an interesting statement. >No, but your case which you snip out of here was would the >military appoint a liar to such a position and my retort was to >give examples where it was done. Being a battalion commander >proves nothing. If one who does a credible job obviously >enhances his reputation for reliability. OK I'll agree; but he was a commander, correct? >Well, Ed, you have not demonstrated that you have any particular >knowledge of the history of science and technology. There is no >evidence of discontinuity in the march of science and >engineering in the areas Corso claimed he seeded. If you know of >one, please let us here about it in detail. This puts the onus >squarely were it should be. It is not required that anyone, >disprove anything about Corso, simply that advocates must prove >their case which has never been done. There's no way to prove any of this for now. And I have no knowledge of advance space based missiles. I just think Col. Corso is telling the truth as he sees it. Nothing more, nothing less. I believe him; he had no apparent reason to hoax this information. >>>Well, I don't think you got your money's worth. Nor does it >>>trump documented proof of Corso's lying. How about another one? >>>His confrontation with a CIA official who wasn't even in >>>Washington at the time in a building not built at the time. How >>>many of these do we need? >>There is documented proof that Col Corso made mistakes but not >>that he lied. A lie is intentional; mistakes are not. I think >>there's a big difference. >Thank you, Bill Clinton! A lie is a lie. If you want to parse >words, go ahead. Your credibility suffers. Corso knowing told >readers that he was a full Colonel and head of the Foreign >Technology section for two years. Both lies. Birnes is not >responsible, these came from Corso's own mouth and own pen. >Ditto his claim of being on the NSA. He was involved with NSA as an intelligence aide. He was right in the middle of everything. You don't know what you're talking about, and have absolutely no understanding of the historical setting or the part that Corso played. So... there's no record that he attended any NSA meetings. What does that mean? There's no record of who recovered the Roswell debris either. This was high level secrecy: the over-through of foreign governments. The part Corso played is known only to a few researchers. >This was quite some time ago, has he recovered? No, I'm sad to say; he hasn't. >>But I did see a rough draft and the results were exactly the >>same: No deception! No lies! Both Corso and Alexander were cool, >>calm and collected. >Just like people talking over a couple of beers. Yes just like that but there were no beers; this was a national radio show with millions listening. I know I'd be a little tense if I were a liar and had my reputation on the line. >>You need to do more research. Dig a little deeper and you'll be >>surprised at what you find. >I submit that I have dug far deeper than you ever had. Again, >what is your particular expertise and experience that we should >just take your word for it!? I'm a nobody. I have no particular expertise except for an interest in and knowledge of the history covered in the FBI files. That's why I could answer Bryant's nonsense. >>Sorry but the TR3-b seems to exist and what do you know of it? > >Nothing, again, the TR3-b nor the SR-71 are not on the scale >of a giant space based defense holding off the evil ET! Prove this statement! Does this mean that you agree that the TR3-b is a reality? >>Well I see a relationship and other researchers find a >>relationship and the FBI's own files indicate a relationship and >>since Col. Corso doesn't seem to be lying then there must be >>some other explanation for his mentioning a relationship. Maybe >>it's because there really was a relationship. >That is about the most circular argument I have every heard. >Hoover and others call Corso's bluff over and over again. His >book mentions a special collegiate relationship with Hoover >which obviously did not exist. The FBI files mention Corso's >accusations of disloyalty which could not be substantiated by >FBI investigation. Again, Corso was probably mistaken about the relationship, but that's how Hoover worked with folks. You'd think he was your best friend but behind your back was another matter. Is that too difficult to understand? Have you read any Hoover Bio's? >>You're certainly entitled to you opinion but I think you're >>overlooking and disregarding very important testimony. I've been >>defending Col. Corso for some time and plan to continue; so if >>you insinuate that he's a liar, you'll hear from me. Ed. >One finally thought: This UpDates answer has been better >sanitized that any Blue Book file, any CIA document or any NSA >release. Note that nearly every example of Corso's falsehoods >have been deleted. When you begin to understand the difference between falsehood and mistakes, then I'll discuss the "snips". >Please note I called Corso the Savior of Mankind. You retorted >that was a "cheap shot". Hardly, when I quoted Corso, right back >at you, calling him Savior of Mankind in all but name only. >Notice how that this non-cheap shot has been deleted from your >answer. Thanks for proving something that one doesn't need a VSA >to see, difficult issues are easily edited out of E-mail >discussions and then either ignored or obfuscated. I don't know >which is worse government obfuscation or obfuscation by self- >styled ufologists. I detest both! Detest to your heart's content. I have no problem with that. Col. Corso was proud of himself. You would be too if you had accomplished all that he did in one life. We're still discussing him, aren't we? Remember the Joey Lewis quote: "We may only live once, but if we live it right, once is enough." Ed
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 8 Re: Corso - Gehrman From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 17:23:15 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 10:25:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Gehrman >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 00:52:18 EST >Subject: Re: Corso >>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:36:56 -0800 >>Subject: Re: Corso >While Corso was a commander he wasn't telling storys about >meeting and having conversations with ET in a mine? Read a book >called Stolen Valor. You will find many instances of people, >some of lower ranks and some of higher ranks that lied about >decorations, awards, and service to both family, friends, and >community after their service was over. >One high ranking general wacked himself when it was going to >come out that he wore some decoration or award that he actually >in fact never got. Robert, Could you read the link below and let me know where you disagree. Please, no generalities but specific examples. Birnes knew Col. Corso and seems to admire him. http://www.garlitsdon.com/Corso.htm I will agree that Col. Corso made mistakes and realize that he had to be deceptive while working as an intelligence officer. But he is not a liar; the VSA proves this. His stories may seem unbelievable, but truth can be far stranger than any fiction. The seamless introduction of the Roswell crash debris into the industrial complex is a testimony to his cleverness. Ed
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 8 Re: Frank Kaufmann Exposed - Rudiak From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 18:53:16 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 15:49:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Frank Kaufmann Exposed - Rudiak >From: Bruce Hutchinson <bhutch@grassyhill.com >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 14:11:42 -500 >Subject: Re: Frank Kaufmann Exposed - Hutchinson >>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 15:00:25 -0800 >>Subject: Re: Frank Kaufmann Exposed >>>From: Bruce Hutchinson <bhutch@grassyhill.com >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 11:17:35 -500 >>>Subject: Re: Frank Kaufmann Exposed - Hutchinson >>>I suspect that because Doty's name appears on the Project >>>Twinkle Final Report, you feel that this just _has_ to connect >>>Doty to CI. You know, ...of course, that Project Twinkle was >>>carried out separately from Project Blue Book. In fact, Project >>>Twinkle was carried out under the Air Force's geophysical >>>research program, a large part of which was handled by the Air >>>Force Cambridge Research Laboratory (AFCRL), which later was >>>renamed the Air Force Geophysics Laboratory and which today is >>>known as Phillips Laboratory. >>The information that Doty was OSI came from Leonard >>Stringfield's Status Report #6, based on the Project Twinkle >>summaries plus information from a witness who said Doty was also >>in charge of security at Holloman. >>The Twinkle summaries do definitely state that Doty assumed >>responsibility for Holloman UFO investigations sometime in 1951. >>He and Dyvad took the UFO report from Corona on July 11, 1951. By >>the time of discussions with Doty on Aug. 27, 1951, it was stated >>that that Doty was "thoroughly acquainted with the situation." >>It also clearly states that he was to continue to collect and >>review reports and maintain liaison with AFOSI. Doty's 1959 >>letter to the Holloman base historian mentioned none of this, >>only his connection to the balloon projects. >>At the very least he was in charge of UFO investigations at >>Holloman starting in 1951 and reported to AFOSI, even if he >>wasn't AFOSI. >What do you have that establishes a "report" structure to the >AFOSI? As you very clearly pointed out, Doty was to maintain a >_liason_ with the AFOSI, which is to be expected due to Twinkle. >But he reported only to his superiors within the AFCRL. It would >appear that you are just trying to build some sort of "sinister >link" between Doty and AFOSI. There wasn't. What I previously stated was: 1. Doty was in AFOSI -- apparently false, but it turns out he _was_ in intelligence (see immediately below) and very closely linked to AFOSI. 2. Doty was in charge of UFO investigations at Holloman AFB starting in 1951 -- true 3. He and Larry Dyvad took a UFO report from Corona in 1951. Dyvad was a chase pilot with Project Mogul in 1947 and one of the men involved in the saucer/Roswell debunking demonstration at Alamogordo on July 9, 1947 -- all true. This suggested that Dyvad was also linked to intelligence or counterintelligence (unproven), but commented on as likely true by both Charles Moore and Albert Trakowski (Doty's predecessor as Mogul Project Officer) in their 1994 Air Force interviews. 4. Doty, when queried in 1959 about his activities at Holloman by the Holloman historian, went into great detail about his balloon activities there but said not a word about being in intelligence and the primary UFO investigator -- true. >>Upon review, I would have to agree this doesn't demonstrate that >>Doty was with OSI, as Stringfield claimed, but he did >>unquestionably investigate on their behalf and report to them. >Unquestionably? As you are unable establish any formal links >between Doty and the OSI, it would seem that there would be a >_lot_ of questions with that sort of claim. Bill Hamilton, noting my UpDates post, forwarded it through his connections (I believe Robert Collins) to Richard Doty for comment. Richard Doty forwarded it on to Edward Doty for further comment. First, this is what Richard Doty had to say about Edward Doty's position and activities: ------------- " don't know this David Rudiak but I can tell you he hasn't done his homework. To set the record straight, I submit the following: "Edward Doty was my uncle. He was assigned to the 7602nd Air Intelligence Wing, 1137th Field Activity Group, 14th Field Intel Unit. He was an intelligence officer, not an OSI agent. He never was an OSI agent. During the early days of OSI, they recruited AF Intel Officers and had some assigned to conduct evaluations of intelligence. Edward worked with OSI and during the early days, his unit was housed in the same building as OSI at Holloman. Edward was never assigned to the Air Force Cambridge Research Station/Center/Laboratory. That unit was connected to research and development and was housed at Boston in the early days. It later became the Air Force Technical Research Agency and the Air Force Scientific Research Office. Edward never worked for them." --------------- Key points made here by Richard Doty: 1. Edward Doty was an intelligence officer, but not an OSI agent. 2. Though not OSI, he worked _very_ closely with them. 3. His principle MOS seems to have been intelligence officer, not balloon or meteorological scientist. 4. He was not assigned to the Air Force Cambridge Research Lab (AFCRL) and "never worked for them." Richard Doty then added that he forwarded this on to his uncle, Edward Doty for comment and received the following: ---------------- Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 20:01 Subject: Trash Talking "Rick: Thanks for the updates. I have heard this trash talking for many years. Charles and I just ignore the stupid people out there. Thanks for setting the story straight. FYI - The Air Force Cambridge Research Laboratory was a center for intelligence collection. Anything to do with advanced or unknown technology (mostly Soviet and Eastern Block stuff), would be collected here and then fed on to W-Pat. Also, I was just one of many involved in Project Twinkle. I had several good officers working on this project. "Several years ago, the Todd character, found me. Although I didn't give him an interview, I did answer a few questions. I actually turned on my old intelligence officers hat and obtained more info from him than he did from me. The guy was a real quack. At least Moore was intelligent. "Your dad and I were involved in Project Cup, which was more about UFOs than about Weather! Ask him sometime about that." ------------------- Now I'll be the first to state for the record that Richard Doty isn't the most reliable of characters. But assuming this e-mail was from the real Edward Doty, it states that: 1. Richard and Edward Doty _are_ related, Edward Doty being Richard Doty's uncle, Charles Doty being Richard Doty's father. 2. Edward Doty states that he was an intelligence officer. 3. He seems to indicate that both he and Charles Doty were involved in some sort of UFO related project called "Project Cup", perhaps working under the cover as a weather project. (I have never heard of "Project Cup" -- perhaps somebody out there can add to this.) 4. The AFCRL was a center of intelligence on any advanced or unknown technology and fed it on to Wright-Patt. This presumably would have included anything on UFOs, crashed or otherwise. If this is correct, then AFCRL was far more than just a simple scientific lab sending up research balloons. 5. Edward Doty has some very ungracious things to say about Robert Todd. >>>In Air Force historical reports, Major Edward Doty is credited >>>with having created the Balloon Branch at Holloman AFB (formerly >>>Alamogordo Army Air Field) almost singlehandedly. Major Doty >>>also worked on Project Mogul (or Mogul-like) experiments at >>>Holloman AFB at least as late as 1951. He carried out a lot of >>>the scientific field work at Holloman for the AFCRL, According to Richard Doty, Edward Doty was not with and did not work for AFCRL, though this does not rule out him doing research for AFCRL. He could have had the same relationship to AFCRL as he did to AFOSI, i.e., collected information for them. >>My, what a fountain of arcane information you are today. I've >>never known you to personally research anything in depth, instead >>regurgitating what others have written or playing front man for >>them. Who are you playing front man for today Bruce? This sounds >>like something Tim Printy would have written, not you. >Does it matter whether this "arcane information" comes from >personal digging or the work of others? In other words, you didn't write any of this, exactly as I stated. You are indeed playing front man for somebody else, and don't have the integrity to state who it is. Who's hiding behind your skirts? Perhaps you are unaware that it is also in violation of the rules of this group to present somebody else's posts anonymously. >The point here is that >you are attempting to make Doty yet another pawn in your >sinister conspiracy. He wasn't. Well according to the above e-mails, Edward Doty was an AF intelligence officer (though not counterintelligence or OSI) and his principle job responsibility seems to have involved investigation of UFO's, not ballooning or weather (which were perhaps public cover jobs). Edward Doty hints at this in his response. Whether this makes him "another pawn" in some "sinister conspiracy" are not my words but yours. At least with the base historian, he was not forthcoming about being either an intelligence officer or in charge of UFO investigations at Holloman. >>>And as a side note, your site erroneously claims Edward Doty was >>>the father of Richard Doty. (Richard has also claimed -falsely- >>>that Edward was his uncle!) You need to correct that. >>Richard Doty told people like Bruce Maccabee and Philip Klass >>that Edward Doty was his father. He told Robert Todd that Edward >>Doty was his uncle. Before I "correct" this, perhaps you can >>enlighten us to the true relationship of the two Dotys and how >>you know this for a fact. >Instead of asking Richard again, Robert Todd thought it might be >interesting to talk to Edward instead! Edward Doty told Todd >that he had never even met Richard, let alone fathered him. >There is no relationship between the two men except the >coincidence of their last names. In other words, all you have is hearsay evidence that Edward Doty allegedly told Robert Todd he was no relation of Richard Doty. In contrast, according to the above e-mails, Richard Doty again asserts that Edward Doty is his uncle. Edward Doty allegedly corroborates this and mentions Richard Doty's father Charles. In another e-mail, received by Grant Cameron from Richard Collins with Richard Doty's complete response, Doty elaborated: ---------------- "As for me telling anyone Edward was my father is dead wrong. Robert Todd was an idiot and never obtained that information from me. I never spoke with Todd. He claimed to have interviewed me once but it must have been an imposter because it wasn't me. Bill Moore had many associations with Todd, not me. I never told Phil Klass anything about my family. Phil Klass claimed he conducted his own research and found that Edward Doty was related to me! As for Bruce Maccabee. He knew Charles was my father and told me this on many occasions. In fact during my OSI days, Maccabee sent a letter to OSI making a complaint against me because I failed to provide him information about the "Kirtland incident". In that letter, he mentions my father! I forward this email to Edward. I don't think he'll respond to "trash" but he might. As for my father, he won't respond to idiots or false information." --------------- At this point it comes down to who do you believe: Richard/Edward Doty or Robert Todd (neither of whom I consider to be very credible)? So far I see no proof that Richard and Edward Doty aren't related, so there is still nothing to correct. >>If I am wrong about Doty being AFOSI (as it currently appears I >>am), I have no problems making the necessary corrections. I do >>strive to be accurate. >>Perhaps you can tell your pal/ghostwriter Tim Printy to do >>likewise on his webpage concerning Charles Moore's Flight 4 >>trajectory hoax and alternation of the Flight 5 map. He's still >>claiming I got this all wrong and Moore is an innocent. >Well, as it happens, you _did_ get it all wrong!! In your >original "proof", you clearly failed to understand how Moore >used the table, Still playing to the audience with bluster and evasion, rather than addressing specifics, aren't you? Moore used his own table completely wrong. It is full of dozens of math "mistakes", all seemingly designed to get his balloon to the Foster Ranch. You are back to the same old idiotic argument that failure to understand completely how the books were cooked somehow justifies cooking the books. >and you made a number of obviously faulty >assumptions based on these mistakes. Which were what exactly? I said Moore's trajectory was completely bogus and I was 100% correct about this. Prove me wrong. >Tim's site very clearly addresses these. Addresses what? Printy merely demonstrated exactly how Moore got 2 + 2 = 3. But 2 + 2 does not equal 3. It doesn't matter that Printy showed exactly how Moore cheated (though Printy, like you, doesn't have the character to admit to this). The point is that Moore did cheat -- big time. He is a hoaxer. And not a single thing that either you or Printy has said refutes this. >As a result of Tim's page, you and Sparks were >forced to back to your spreadsheets to come with another theory. No, the "theory" is the same. Moore cheated and is a hoaxer The only thing that changed were the fine points of exactly how he cheated. >You can (and I predict you will) spin this any way you want, but >it is all quite obvious to anyone that reads both sites, and >does not need to be re-hashed ad nauseum here. The only one resorting to spin is you. Anybody remotely competent in math can see that Moore hoaxed his trajectory. The real reason you don't want to rehash the arguments is because neither you nor Printy can defend yourselves. Printy fled from UpDates after being thoroughly trounced by me. I even caught Printy cheating in his own math in a last desperate attempt to salvage Moore. This concerned the _fact_ discovered by Brad Sparks that Moore's rise rate numbers in his table do not correspond to the real rise rates that he used. This again led to a different trajectory than the one Moore printed in his book, another flagrant example of Moore's mathematical cheating. >BTW: Your later theories - the ones that Tim Printy forced you >and Sparks to develop - do present some interesting anomolies >that Moore's book does not address. "Anomalies?" More like flagrant cheating by Moore, hardly the sort of thing Moore was likely to address in his book. A scientist like Moore doesn't have literally dozens of math "anomalies" in a single table by pure accident. When you use Moore's own numbers in his table and calculate _correctly_, the balloons miss by a big margin. > They are interesting, but >hardly proof that Moore was under the direction of the Great >Conspiracy. Whether Moore did this on his own or as part of the "Great Conspiracy" doesn't change the _fact_ that he is a hoaxer and that his hoaxing his absolutely _provable_ mathematically. >Tim Printy's site does not claim Moore used the data >correctly- Tim only demonstrates how Moore developed his graph, >which was something you obviously needed to know. More word play as a substitution for sound argumentation. If Moore didn't "use the data correctly", then he is either grossly incompetent or a hoaxer. You are tacitly admitting I am right, but don't have the integrity or guts to just come out and say it. >Second- you have yet to address your repeated >mis-representations of Moore's writings. We are all curious as to >why you felt that was so necessary. I won't go through them >here, but interested readers can look at Tim Printy's pages for >details. >http://members.aol.com/tprinty2/rudiak.html >and >http://members.aol.com/timprinty/myhomepage/flight4.html >Regards, >Bruce Hutchinson And I would like to refer people to my own Website: www.roswellproof.com/flight4_trajectory.html Again, Bruce Hutchinson seems to think spin is a substitute for sound argumentation. The one guilty of gross misrepresentation is Moore. I showed irrefutably that he misused his own stated assumptions and calculated his own data incorrectly, all with the obvious intent of guiding his little lost Mogul to the Foster Ranch. If Printy wants to stop hiding behind Bruce Hutchinson, he can come back to Updates and argue all those "misrepresentations of Moore's writings" I allegedly made. We can go over them point by point. However, he's not going to fare any better this time than the last time he appeared on Updates and tried to argue his own case. The fact of the matter is, neither Printy or Hutchinson has a case. The reason they have no case is because Moore hung himself with the trail of bogus numbers he left behind. Neither Printy or Hutchinson has ever refuted a single one of my arguments about this. The best that Printy could do was show how Moore got 2 + 2 = 3. But that doesn't make 2 + 2 = 3. It's no defense of Moore, no matter how hard Hutchinson tries to spin it. Hutchinson is like the sleazy lawyer with the guilty client who ends up pounding the table because he has neither the law nor the facts to pound on. Every time Printy or Hutchinson tries to defend Moore, they only end up digging themselves in deeper as a pair of lamentably dishonest skeptics incapable of admitting that one of their own is a flagrant hoaxer. David Rudiak
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 8 Re: C.E.: Interesting UFO Photos/Story - Speiser From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 23:40:07 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 15:54:53 -0500 Subject: Re: C.E.: Interesting UFO Photos/Story - Speiser >From: Chaz Stuart <Daydisk2@WEBTV.NET> >To: CURRENT-ENCOUNTERS@LISTSERV.AOL.COM >Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 01:17:57 -0500 >Subject: Interesting UFO Photos/Story >This _seems_ to be legit..... >Go to: http://www.mccurtain.com/mthermanufo.htm At first glance, they appear to be lens flares of some kind. I would be very suspicious of the fact that he said the sun was in his eyes when taking the picture, as the sun could be expected to have quite an effect on the resulting photos. The second photo (#7055) is especially suggestive of this, as the "solid" blue object is right in line with two or three blue lens flares. Just a guess. ==JJS==
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 8 Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 2 - Shough From: Martin Shough <mshough@parcellular.fsnet.co.uk> Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 10:19:19 -0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 15:57:39 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 2 - Shough >From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 18:59:21 +0000 >Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 2 >RETIRED GENERAL SAYS HE >ENCOUNTERED A GIGANTIC >UFO IN NORTHERN CHILE >A retired Chilean air force general said last week >that he and his wingman had encountered an immense UFO >while on a training flight over northern Chile twenty- >five years ago. >"In an interview with Terra-Chile, retired general >Hernan Gabrieli Rojas mentioned that he had 'squared off' >against a gigantic UFO while while engaged in a training >flght in the skies of northern Chile." >According to Gabrieli Rojas, who retired after a >long career wth the Fuerzas Aereas de Chile (FACh or >Chilean Air Force--J.T.), "the object was the size of 10 >to 15 aircraft carriers, and its presence was picked up >by the radars aboard the two F-5 jet fighters as well as >the Cerro Moreno airport in Antofagasta." >The incident took place in 1978, Gabrieli Rojas >said, "'I was a captain and was flying a mission with two >F-5 fighters. It was noon, and I was flying with Captain >Danilo Catalan (his wingman--J.T.). We were both flight >instructors. Accompanying us was Fernando Gomez, an >aviation technician, and another trainee. The F-5 is >radar-equipped, and a line appeared from side to side--in >other words, a trace across the bottom of the (radar) >screen. A trace for a surface ship, a carrier, is >approximately one centimeter (0.4 inches) long, but this >line went from one side of the screen to the other.'" >"'I assumed the radar scope had failed and told >Danilo Catalan, but his radar had also 'failed.' I then >advised the ground radar at Antofagasta, and they picked >up the line. We were flying from north to south in the >vicinity of Mejillones and saw a deformed cigar-shaped >object. Deformed, like a plantain banana. It was >swathed in smoke.'" >The UFO "'was large and must have been 25 to 32 >kilometers (15 to 20 miles) away. It moved in the same >direction as us. We had no missiles, guns or anything. >As you can imagine, the fright was more or less >considerable. We could see a large thing surrounded in >smoke and from which a vapor issued. The whole incident >must have lasted about five minutes. We approached the >UFO but it was motionless--it merely stood parallel to >us. It was quite impressive because it was truly >something strange, and something could be seen in >concealment behind the smoke.'" >"'The object then disappeared (west) towards Easter >Island at an impressive rate of speed. The sky cleared >and the lines on our radar vanished. However, there had >been an object physically flying there. It's not a yarn, >let me tell you. It was my only experience with UFOs.'" >(See OVNIvision Chile for December 26, 2002. Muchas >gracias a Scott Corrales y Cristian Riffo del grupo >OVNIvision Chile para eso informe.) This has many of the hallmarks of radar/visual mirage of the ground over the horizon: an image appearing to pace the aircraft, broad abnormal radar return parallelling horizon, 'smoky' visual appearance, disappearance when the aircraft turned from its N-S course to approach etc. Martin Shough
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 8 Casey Holt, MN MUFON Field Investigator Passes From: Joel Henry <jhenry@visi.com> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 09:13:14 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 15:59:00 -0500 Subject: Casey Holt, MN MUFON Field Investigator Passes It is with a heavy heart that I must report the passing of Casey Holt, one of Minnesota MUFON's most active and talented Field Investigators. He had apparently gone out onto a lake (to ice skate) in Wisconsin and fallen through the ice on Christmas Eve. Casey was a brilliant field investigator, and a true electronics wizard. He had conducted many fascinating experiments with magnetic levitation, temperature sensing related to anomaly studies, etc. He had been heavily involved in field investigation of UFO sightings since we formed the current investigator group in 1996. In addition to being a science/technology wizard, he was also a true spiritual seeker. The combination of the two had led him to involvement in many fascinating adventures. In all of the time we have known him, we have had nothing but the highest respect for his intellect, his genuineness, and his love of mystery and his wry wit. Casey will be greatly missed by all who knew him. Joel Henry MN MUFON Webmaster and FI
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 8 FILER'S FILES #2 -- 2003 From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 10:57:43 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 16:02:59 -0500 Subject: FILER'S FILES #2 -- 2003 FILER'S FILES #2 -- 2003, MUFON Skywatch Investigations George A. Filer, Director Mutual UFO Network Eastern January 7, 2003, Majorstar@aol.com Webmaster: Chuck Warren -- My new website is at: http://www.georgefiler.com I HOPE YOU HAVE A HEALTHY AND PROSPEROUS NEW YEAR The purpose of these files is to report the UFO eyewitness and photo/video evidence that occurs on a daily basis around the world and in space, One forth planetary systems have Earths (Millions likely), Clonaid claims first human clone, but has not provided proof, Virginia black teardrop ship, North Carolina oval shaped UFO spotted, Georgia ball of light moving at tremendous speed and photos analyzed, Florida strange skywriting solved and circle with beams, Texas lights around the perimeter, Colorado large and silent flying triangle, California elongated solid green UFO, Washington row of horizontal lights, Canada three large circular objects, Puerto Rico mysterious object falls, UK bright silver light, and Australian UFOs sighted. Letter from Spokane, UK UFO Magazine reports Spanish researchers videotape hundreds of UFO-like images in space. Shop at 100 stores online at the Mall Without Walls http://www.filer.unfranchise.com ONE FORTH PLANETARY SYSTEMS HAVE EARTHS New Scientist reports, "One in four of the planetary systems identified to date outside the Solar System are capable of harboring other Earths, say astrophysicists, a much higher proportion than anyone expected." The researchers decided the race to detect an extrasolar Earth-like planet is taking too long. So, instead of scanning the skies, they modeled all the planetary systems known so far to work out which could be hiding habitable planets. Since 1995, astronomers have unveiled dozens of planets orbiting nearby Sun-like stars. Current methods can only detect gas giants like Jupiter but life, at least in the form that we know it, can only get started on a solid surface where water can pool. A small terrestrial planet made of rock would be a more likely abode, but it could be years before we are able to detect such planets. To narrow the search, Serge Tabachnik and Kristen Menou of Princeton Unive! rsity in New Jersey, have created computer simulations of the 85 systems known in August 2002, the time of their research, to estimate which might harbor habitable planets. Although similar work has been carried out for a few individual solar systems, this study, which will appear in The Astrophysical Journal, is the first to address the entire known set. GRAVITATIONAL TUGS: The first thing they looked for in each system was whether a small terrestrial planet could exist in a stable orbit. The gravitational tugs exerted by gas giants can force smaller planets into unstable orbits or eject them from a system altogether. So for a smaller world to be habitable, it must be far enough away from its larger cousins so that their gravitational pull does not seriously affect its orbit. The planet must also be within the "habitable zone": the region surrounding a star within which a planet can support liquid water at all times. The researchers found that around a quarter of the systems contained regions where life-friendly planets could in principle exist. This is much higher than previously thought, says Tabachnik. Extrapolated across the entire Galaxy, that makes a lot of new Earths. Greg Laughlin from the University of California has done similar&nbs! p; calculations and agrees with these new results. "[They are] in line with what I would have expected," he says. But the authors warn that their results are preliminary. There could still be other gas giants, further away from the stars, which have not been detected yet, these could affect the stable regions that have been found so far. Thanks to Mark A Garlick and the New Scientist CLONAID CLAIMS FIRST HUMAN CLONE So far Clonaid has failed to provide any proof of its claims of successful cloning of a baby girl born the day after Christmas. VIRGINIA BLACK TEARDROP SHIP CENTREVILLE -- One black teardrop-shaped ship approximately 20 feet in length on December 13, 2002, at 11:40 PM, the nose finished in a slightly dulled point. Backswept wing-like extensions were fixed from the middle of the ship to a foot or so behind. It seemed to shimmer as it moved, exceedingly hard for the eye to follow. Unarmed, silent, no lights, no aircraft nearby (strangely enough), left no trail, no magnetic effects. However, the ship did leave a very slight mental signature almost like a ringing in the ears or a tone just below human hearing. It stayed for two minutes, and then left in a rush. As it picked up speed the shimmering stopped or perhaps intensified? But either way, it disappeared. Thanks to Peter Davenport [ http://www.ufocenter.com/ ]NUFORC NORTH CAROLINA OVAL SHAPED UFO SPOTTED MARSHALL -- The witness and a friend were sitting by the window talking on December 15, 2002, when suddenly they saw CLEARLY a very well defined round white-light-filled shape descending slowly across the sky. The witness said, "My mouth must have been so open because my friend rushed to me and shook me. All I could was shout, "Oh my God" and I rushed outside at 11:00 PM. By the time I got out I couldn't see it anymore, but we both observed a VERY unusual thick white smoky trace, the type that airplanes leave. The trace disappeared in midair. Strangely, we both felt an incredibly strong energy current both inside and around, like suddenly the entire area had been charged with an electric charge of super strength. What ensued was even more puzzling -- a strong and continuous cacophony of animal noises - - wild barking of dogs most notably -- permeated the air until 3 AM. I couldn't sleep that night. Thanks to Peter Davenport ! ; [ http://www.ufocenter.com/ ]NUFORC GEORGIA LIGHT MOVING AT SPEED AND PHOTOS ANALYZED SUWANEE -- On December 15, 2002, at 7 PM, it all happened less in than a second. I still am asking myself questions about what happened. I am sure that what ever I saw didn't come from this Earth. The main reason I am writing this is to inform people that there is other life beyond our capability of grasping. I was fascinated by what I saw; it is a beautiful once in a life time experience. It happened so fast that I could hardly tell exactly what it was, but it was very close and was a highly concentrated purest white light.. It was LIGHT ITS SELF, and it didn't streak any light behind it like a comet. Three hours later a fourteen year old witness saw a light appear behind a neighbor's house at 10:30 PM. The light proceeded at a high speed on a horizontal path until it disappeared and landed behind some trees. My son described the light as "perfect ball of light that did not give off light, but 'was' a light that made no sound. It moved at a speed unlike anything I or my son have ever seen, and is hard to describe." Thanks to Peter Davenport [ http://www.ufocenter.com/ ]NUFORC MACON --MACON --A.K. Johnstone, Ph.D. writes, "Scanning structures in George Heards' November 2002, daylight photos of chemtrails over Macon, revealed several unidentified objects: Photo1: Rod shaped object above a restaurant and filaments of charged particles (plasmas) near the trails: Photo 2: Two cylindrical shaped objects at a right angle to each other. Photo 3: Enlargement of the larger filament in photo 1 (Note ball- shaped plasmas within the plasma filament). Photo 4: Corkscrew- shaped plasma filament above chemtrails. Photo 5 Wave shaped plasma filament which appears to flow from the trail. Discs and cylinders are also visable in the photographs if you look closely. After photographing similar objects above Spokane, Washington chemtrails in October 2002, I suggest that the electrical plasma filaments may be created by the cylindrical and disc-shaped objects. Input from interested parties is welcome. Thanks to A. K. Johnstone, Ph.D. Phd84@nwinet.com" Author of "UFO Defense Tactics -Weather Shield to Chemtrails" 1- 800-938-1114 to order..Photos are at Views: [ http://www.nationalufocenter.com/files/2002/index.php ]Filer's Files UFO Center Views FLORIDA CIRCLE WITH BEAMS PORT ST. LUCIE -- At 2 AM, it started as a circle on December 17, 2002, and changed colors, almost as if it were spinning. Sometimes beams of light would shoot out of the bottom. It started out as a circle then every once and a while, it split in two and a beam of light came out of the bottom. Since it was really late we didn't watch it for that long but it moved in odd ways. Sometimes it would zigzag, and every time it stopped it seemed like it was spinning because it was changing colors. BOCA RATON AIRPORT -- The strange skywriting reported last week was accomplished by an independent skywriter pilot named Jerry Stephens who is out on a regular basis writing "Jesus Loves U" in the sky. Thanks to Kathy WISCONSIN GREEN COLORED OBJECT REPORT MARSHFIELD COUNTY-- Kat R. reports that on December 26, 2002, my husband and I were traveling with our new snowmobile and the sky was very clear, with tiny airplanes all around with the Big Dipper directly ahead. We were somewhere north of Marshfield when at 8:50 PM, we saw a round, solid green colored object that came from the left side and our first thought was that we were going to witness the crash of something. It was coming at an angle left to right, top to bottom across the windshield! We realized it couldn't be a plane as there was only the green color. There was no pulsing or flashing or quirky moves, just the same speed, almost like slow motion in a sense, although we were so locked in to what we were seeing, time seemed to stand still, no tail like a comet, no flames, and close enough, it seemed that were it a plane we would've seen the shape of the tail, etc. We were coming up an incline with a bank of trees and object appeared to be! coming down, but nothing was to be seen as we rounded the bend. The object was the size of a dime at arm's length. Thanks to Kat and UFOWisconsin [ http://www.ufowisconsin.com/ ]http://www.ufowisconsin.com/ TEXAS LIGHTS AROUND THE PERIMETER PASADENA -- A bright light was traveling over the Houston Ship Channel on December 21, 2002, with red and blue flashing lightsaround the perimeter, making Que-ball turns. The witness at 3 AM, walked out on the front porch to smoke and glanced up. He states, "My attention was instantly drawn to a brightly lit object traveling toward the NE at about the speed of a private plane, over the Houston Ship Channel, two miles away." It passed a yard light slightly above my neighbor's house, and I watched it travel fifty feet above the roof. Casually wondering why I was looking into what might be an aircraft landing light, I was startled to see it make a 180 degree Que-ball turn, without diminishing its speed. It retraced its flight path, and made another Que-ball turn, and, continued on its original path, but, descending below the ridgeline and out of sight. It was simply a large, bright light with red and blue lights flashing around th! e perimeter, yet, the light always seemed to be pointed straight at me, indicating that it was radiating in all directions. This is not the first time I have seen lights in the Sky that seemed to be shining directly at me, while traveling in directions at physical odds with landing lights. The first time was in December of 1999, multiple objects over Ellington Field and Baybrook Mall, in Clear Lake City, Texas. They disappeared up I-45, around downtown Houston, and then flew west. HOUSTON -- I am an ex-USAF pilot having flown the C-141B all over the world. The object appeared to be several thousand feet high, moving slowly without any noise on December 19, 2002, at 7 PM. It had a chevron shape with orange lights high lighting the shape. It was a clear night sky and the orange lights were very, very dim and the craft did not stay in view very long. If the object were actually high in the sky, it would have been an enormous object. This occurred while my 5 year old son was looking at the stars and wanted to know what that was. At first I did not see it but then I noticed the shape blocking the light of the stars. This is my first experience with something I can't explain. Thanks to Peter Davenport [ http://www.ufocenter.com/ ]NUFORC COLORADO LARGE AND SILENT FLYING TRIANGLE DENVER -- The witness spotted a 'V' shaped object with a main set of lights on the front on December 13, 2002, at 11:40 PM. He says, "I couldn't count them but there were about ten large lights." Behind these lights there were several dimmer ones defining more of the object and perhaps more smaller lights. It was fairly large and moving west just above the tree line at an estimated 200 mph. It was only 600 feet in altitude and 1/8th of a mile south of me. It didn't make any noise and it disappeared after it went behind a tree. Thanks to Peter Davenport [ http://www.ufocenter.com/ ]NUFORC CALIFORNIA ELONGATED SOLID GREEN UFO SONORA -- I would like to report a UFO that my wife observed on December 28, 2002, at 12:30 AM. She was lying in bed when she noticed a light outside our bedroom's sliding glass door. The light caught her attention because it consisted of an elongated solid green light with a red light at one end. Neither light flashed for the 3 seconds. The lights formed a solid line across and were the width of an index finger at arm's length. The green portion taking up 80% of the light area. The lights were traveling west and disappeared in about the center of the window. We had solid cloud cover at about 5,000 feet. We are accustomed to seeing airplane lights as there is a local airport 5 miles away. Thanks to Destry email@destryhines.com WASHINGTON ROW OF HORIZONTAL LIGHTS SEATTLE -- The witnesses report seeing a row of different colored lights north of their home on December 15, 2002, some distance away for at least an hour around midnight. My wife asked me to go outside and observe stationery lights over Capitol Hill in Seattle. The row of lights was of different colors and was not quite horizontal to the ground. We could not judge the distance or the size of the object, but it appeared to be very large. We had a high powered telescope, but could not locate it, but our binoculars worked fine. We observed a red light break away from the row of lights and a faint whitish beam come off now and then from the lowest part of the object. Our house is near the flight path of SeaTac Airport and commercial planes came between us and the object. The weather conditions were rain and the wind was blowing at 10 to 20 miles an hour. Since I could not focus on the object with the telescope, we finally went inside.&n! bsp; We took digital photos, but they did not come outt. I am a real estate appraiser and my wife is a homemaker. We are both college grads. Thanks to Peter Davenport [ http://www.ufocenter.com/ ]NUFORC CANADA THREE LARGE CIRCULAR OBJECTS ROSSWOOD, BRITISH COLUMBIA -- On January 4, 2003, at 2:40 a.m. Brian Vike had a phone call from a witness who explained that her and a passenger were driving along the highway when they both saw three large circular white objects hovering near the peak of the Rosswood Mountain Range. The driver stopped and they both watched the objects as they slowly descended down the mountain. The objects dropped down behind a small hill and both witnesses lost sight of them. She said they sat watching for a while just in case they might return. But that was it, they were gone. They observed the lights for close to three minutes. I asked if she could determine the distance between each of the lights. A "rough" guess is that the lights were 1/4 of a kilometer a part and at an equal distance between each other. Brian will be paying these folks a visit after the winter is over as I still have a few others to visit along the route between T! errace and Prince Rupert. Thanks to Brian Vike HBCC UFOSOURCE, editor of the [ http://www.geocities.com/hbccufo/home.html ]Canadian Communicator PUERTO RICO MYSTERIOUS OBJECT FALLS SAN JUAN -- On January 6, 2003, an object of unknown origin crashed against the leaves of a palm tree and burned almost a meter of grass in the backyard of a San Juan residence, according to Puerto Rican police officials. According to the report, a strong smell of sulfur inundated the site shortly after the fall occurred in a family dwelling in Carolina, the municipality adjacent to San Juan. The property was owned by Matmari and Martin Rodriguez Carrasquillo. The couple advised authorities of the incident a few days after it occurred. Police advised the Arecibo Observatory in northern Puerto Rico of the event. Officials from the observatory and the Environmental Quality Board (JCA) conducted a radiation test, yielding results which showed the object came from beyond Earth's atmosphere, according to the police report. Translation (C) 2003. Scott Corrales, Institute of Hispanic Ufology. Special thanks to Guillermo Gimenez. ! Mundo (newspaper); Mundo Misterioso (Website) UNITED KINGDOM TEARDROP-SHAPED OBJECT YSTRADGYNLAIS -- I saw one object, which looked slightly triangular teardrop in shape streak across the sky 6:30 AM, on December 11, 2002, approximately northeast to southwest with a large trailing fiery plume behind it. It moved at a constant, speed which seemed extremely fast and there was no sound. At the same time there was a plane in the sky traveling in the opposite direction. The object seemed to be much closer, brighter, and faster than this plane. CONGERSTONE -- The sky was bright over the fields and we could see the northern lights at 10:56 PM, on December 12, 2002. To our right hovering in the air stationary, just hanging in the air for approximately 5-10 minutes very low just above trees shining a bright light was an object. It was very difficult to see any shape, because the light was so bright. Then it rose slowly and gracefully into the air a considerable way (a few meters) and came overhead, very low and very quietly, gliding above us. It seemed as though the engine had been turned off and it just glided above us, above the village and disappeared out of view. We ran outside to watch as it went over, there were colored lights blue, red yellow and white fairly dim now, and we think it was a Diamond shape. Very strange. A second craft followed its path; but we think this was an aircraft which was noisier and had a more familiar shape. AUSTRALIA LIGHTS AND FLYING TRIANGLE EVANS SHIRE N.S.W. ANIMAL RESERVE -- The witness reports seeing a three lighted object of extreme size fly over on December 14, 2002, it then seemed to release objects at 90 degrees to it into the atmosphere, then turning the craft seemed to emerge from the stars. At 2:32 AM, it consisted of 3 lights in a triangle with a gray-black matter within the triangle. It was passing southwest when spotted directly above after flying halfway to the horizon. It turned southeast as it did the triangle rotated so the light that was on the side before was now leading. Simultaneously "shooting stars" entered our atmosphere at 90 degree angle to the side of the object. There were about eight of them. My mate had only just mentioned a low buzz of alternating pitch when we saw it, that became louder when the object had almost reached the horizon. My friend has lived on an animal reserve for 17 years and this sound was not related to any animal. The on! ly other thing is during its flight other shapes of the same size and ability to simulate them selves out from the stars came more present, but did not move accept for one. Another witness and I saw a light that became a moving three light triangle for five seconds and then stopped and we lost it. Thanks to Peter Davenport [ http://www.ufocenter.com/ ]NUFORC LETTER FROM MARY IN SPOKANE Mary Pritzl writes, "Most people do think, I am just weird. You may share my story and there is no need to change my name. I think it is time. The time is here and "they" want the word to get out and those of us who are affected by the knowledge will be drawn together. I do not fear the foreign powers and a nuclear battle, "They " will not permit it to happen to this planet. I feel the reason we are seeing more sightings is the fact that mankind has done about as much damage as will be permitted and the outside forces who depend on the survival of the earth are banning together to keep watch. They are obviously no longer being inconspicuous. The bible says the meek will inherit the earth. I surmise this as saying the environmentalists, the holistic healers, the human beings striving for the betterment of mankind are the meek and shall remain when the time comes. Those who have been trained conscientiously or sub- conscientiously will be here to lead the way and share all the knowledge that has been stored. I have read about many abductees who say that they have a tremendous amount of knowledge that has been implanted, but they will not be able to use it until it is time and safe. Last night a friend called me and asked me to call on my Gods, for her little girl who is very ill. Although I only have one God, I am not sure how to define God. Two weeks a go I went to see a friend because I felt one of her children was ill. She is two months pregnant. I asked her to consider having an amio. test of the ambiotic fluid because I felt something was amiss. She called last night, asking that I call on my God. She said, I know that you see something that I can't see, but I believe in you. Please think about us and ask your spirit friends for advice. Her first born 7 year old had begun medical tests that were appearing very negative. I did not know her daughter was about to begin medical tests. But I was told whatever it is it would be arrested if she sought medical help soon. We shall see. If I help her child, there will be more people who will believe in the insight we all could gain from our mysterious friends above. I always said, God gave us these huge brains and we utilize only 10% of it, people with extra powers are those you have been able to step beyond the 10%. I will contact the man in Spokane and I thank you again for believing I am not nuts. If there is anyone I can help or who wants to hear more about weird Mary in Spokane, feel free to pass along my email.! UFO's here are cigar and triangular shaped. It would be interesting to learn what the different shapes mean. Each planet may have their own identifying vehicles. Thanks to Mary Pritzl Exoticorfans@cs.com EUROSETI TO REVEAL STARTLING UFO IMAGES AT THE NATIONAL SPACE CENTRE! A full-page advertisement in the January 2003 issue of UFO Magazine has generated considerable interest among the UFO community. It refers to an event taking place on the weekend of 24-27 January, when some extraordinary satellite images of anomalous objects will be screened at the National Space Centre in Leicester. The screenings will be held Friday, Saturday and Sunday at 7.30 PM. For the past two years, hundreds of extraordinary UFO-like images have been gleaned by a Spanish-based team using two space-based satellites and which defy explanation. NASA initially tried to explain the images away as pixel faults, passing meteors or asteroids, etc., but when a European-led consortium presented them with images that clearly were none of the aforementioned, they 'clamped up.' On Tuesday, 7 January 2003, Mr. Mike Murray, one of the founders of EUROSETI, visited the offices of UFO Magazine to conduct a WORLD EXCLUS! IVE filmed interview. Those wishing to attend the lectures at Britain's National Space Centre in Leicester should book their seat a.s.a.p. with EUROSETI hotline number is: 01733 293720. Thanks to David Kingston davidkingston@btopenworld.com [ http://www.ufomag.co.uk/euroseti.htm ]http://www.ufomag.co.uk/euroseti.htm FILER'S MALL WITHOUT WALLS Filers Files has been sent out free to our readers for six years. I need your help since investigations and publishing these files takes virtually all my time and effort. Weekly I receive letters from our readers thanking me for this free service. I personally feel investigation of this phenomenon may be the most important endeavor of mankind. Frankly, it is expensive to provide you this service at no charge. Instead of stopping these files, that I consider to be extremely important, I have opened a Filer Market America website to provide you with outstanding products at low prices. My family and I use most of the Health and Nutritional products and have obtained amazing results in anti aging, healing of psoriasis, varicose veins, allergies, fibromyalgia, and various other ailments. Personally these products are turning my gray hair darker, thicker and given me extra energy. I regularly work twelve hour days and feel grea! t. The Isotonix nutritional supplements get 95% absorption into your body in only five minutes so you obtain the maximum benefit. You can go to my website and obtain your own Nutritional Deficiency Analysis to determine what products will help you personally. These products are tested and used by numerous medical doctors. My wife Janet, who works in real estate has essentially supported my mission to bring forth the truth about UFOs. We can help find you an excellent real estate sales person any where in the country. When you read these UFO files and enjoy them, I simply ask to think of me when you buy a home, order gifts or nutritional products. At my Mall Without Walls, there are over one hundred fine stores to serve you such as: Disney, Hallmark, and Nordstroms, that will take your Visa and Master Card. Just go to [ http://www.filer.unfranchise.com ]www.filer.unfranchise.com and purchase excellent products at low prices from the comfort of your home. The products are delivered to your door or to your! love ones around the world in a few days. I phoned my mother and asked what she wanted for Christmas? Before we finished our conversation, I ordered her favorite perfume at FragranceNet.com at 35% discount. They wrapped and sent her what she wanted and it was very easy. I consider the people who read these files a part of the Filer Family of experiencers. Most of us who read these files have seen UFOs, many have experienced first hand contact. Many of you suffer from ailments that are related to these experiences. Many have come to me for comfort and help. If you use products like Isotonix OPC-3 that contains grape seed, pine bark and some the most powerful anti-aging formula known to science. If you want to feel better than you have in years, simply try these products because they work and are backed by scientific research. To obtain optimum health, click here to take a [ http://www.filer.unfranchise.com/ ]*NUTRI-PHYSICAL Health Analysis online. To shop conveniently become a Preferred Customer at 100 stores online for almost anything you might need, just remember to choose a store at the Mall Without Walls: [ http://www.filer.unfranchise.com ]www.filer.unfranch! ise.com NEW NASA SHUTTLE VIDEO OF UFOs IN SPACE Jeff Challender has prepared a new tape of various UFOs that were caught on recent Shuttle video footage. Jeff has over a hour-long tape of UFOs shot in space. Using Jeff's directions you will be able to learn the difference between space junk, ice crystals and real UFOs. See UFOs moving at high speed around the Earth. Send $25 to: Jeff Challender 2768 Mendel Way - Sacramento, California 95833-2011 MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative reports subscribe to the MUFON JOURNAL. A MUFON membership includes the Journal and costs only $35.00 per year. To join MUFON or to report a UFO go to http://www.mufon.com/. To ask questions contact MUFONHQ@aol.com or HQ@mufon.com. Mention that I recommended you for membership. Filer's Files is copyrighted 2003 by George A. Filer, all rights reserved. Readers may post the complete files on their Web Sites if they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue that the item appeared. These reports and comments are not necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON viewpoint. Send your letters to Majorstar@aol.com. Sending mail automatically grants permission for us to publish and use your name. Please state if you wish to keep your name, address, or story confidential. CAUTION, MOST OF THESE ARE INITIAL REPORTS AND REQUIRE FURTHER INVESTIGATION. Happy New Year George A. Filer http://www.georgefiler.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 8 Re: Corso - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 16:10:37 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 16:07:32 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Hall >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 17:23:15 -0800 >Subject: Re: Corso >>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 00:52:18 EST >>Subject: Re: Corso >>>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:36:56 -0800 >>>Subject: Re: Corso >>While Corso was a commander he wasn't telling storys about >>meeting and having conversations with ET in a mine? Read a book >>called Stolen Valor. You will find many instances of people, >>some of lower ranks and some of higher ranks that lied about >>decorations, awards, and service to both family, friends, and >>community after their service was over. >>One high ranking general wacked himself when it was going to >>come out that he wore some decoration or award that he actually >>in fact never got. >Robert, >Could you read the link below and let me know where you >disagree. Please, no generalities but specific examples. Birnes >knew Col. Corso and seems to admire him. >http://www.garlitsdon.com/Corso.htm >I will agree that Col. Corso made mistakes and realize that he >had to be deceptive while working as an intelligence officer. >But he is not a liar; the VSA proves this. His stories may seem >unbelievable, but truth can be far stranger than any fiction. >The seamless introduction of the Roswell crash debris into the >industrial complex is a testimony to his cleverness. Ed, Never have I seen such a strong example of the "will to believe" blinding someone so completely! Corso lied, exaggerated, embellished repeatedly and passed over several opportunites to acknowledge mistakes in public and correct the record. His behavior was blatantly dishonest. The VSA is no more a magic determiner of truth-telling than is the polygraph. Would the Marine Corps use the Osprey VTO aircraft if it didn't work? Would DOD use anti-missile missiles if they didn't work? Would Reagan (and now Bush) support the SDI concept if it didn't work? What kind of reasoning is this? High-tech "magic solutions" to problems always sell. A lie is a lie is a lie. But, no, to you "mistakes were made." His mistake was talking too much and revealing himself for what he was. Bottom line: Corso is (was) totally lacking in credibility. Furthermore, his tales of derring-do betray a braggart and egocentric personality. His stories of charging around Washington, D.C., and throwing his weight around are laughable, if not pitiable. Ask anyone who has lived here and knows how things work. A Lt. Colonel is nothing in this town. - Dick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 8 Re: Corso - Sandow From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com> Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 11:41:15 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 16:08:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Sandow >From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 18:49:44 -0500 >Subject: Re: Corso >It's silly - no other word will do - to get pious about someone >we want to defend, by saying they'd never have reached their >high positions if they'd been dishonest. History, nowt to mention >the daily newspaper, shows otherwise. (Would all those top Enron >executives have been given their high positions if they'd been >dishonest?) Would Richard Russell have appointed Corso if he'd >thought Corso was a fraud? Maybe not, but Corso, unknown to >Russell, could have been a fraud anywhere. And just this morning, the press reported something about the commandant of the US Marine Corps -- that he's been wearing three medals that he can't prove he's earned. He's been forced to take them off. Of course, no one would ever have been named to this high position who's unreliable in this way....... Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 8 Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - Lemire From: Todd Lemire <tlemire@comcast.net> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 12:15:51 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 16:11:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? - Lemire >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 18:49:45 -0500 >Subject: Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? >>From: Todd Lemire <tlemire@comcast.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 12:45:40 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? >>>From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk> >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 16:40:21 -0000 >>>Subject: Is Ufology Dead Or Just Dozing? >>>Jenny Randles wrote an excellent article for EYE magazine, which >>>is now up at their website at: >>>http://www.hufos1.karoo.net >>>It is quite critical of ufology, but does make some >>>suggestions as to the way forward. Just to give you a taste, >>>read the following quote: >>>"So UFOlogy will never go back to the way it was. It has changed, >>>forever, and the UFO community that once controlled what was said >>>and done has lost the say in its own subject. Indeed, UFOlogists >>>have almost become an irrelevance - at best lumbering behind a >>>litany of advertisers,hype merchants, web site designers, and >>>sci-fi entrepreneurs."> >>None on the 'lecture circuit', and very few on this list can >>do as Jenny says and ..."prove rational objectivity and a desire >>to stay out of the public limelight." >>The 'web' should be, among other things, a "diagnostic tool" >>for the ufologist, as Jenny suggests, which has the ability >>of... "suggesting options to be investigated during a sighting." >>I would've liked to have seen some website suggestions in this >>thread that supported this, but are there any? I can't, off the >>top of my head, think of a UFO website that _focuses_ on both >>'investigative resources' and 'sighting reports'. Where are >>these comprehensive ufo sites that provide ready access to both? >>I didn't see any discussion regarding the necessary steps and requirements to develop such a site. >Does my site fit into your search for a site that "focuses on >both investigative resources and sighting reports?" I should >point out that I have not attempted to compile a large data base >of sightings and I don't include collections or "masses" of >sightings just to have a bunch of sightings on my site. Rather, >what is there are sightings I have investigated in order to >determine whether or not there are unexplainable sightings. _If_ >there are (and I have concluded that there are)ost of the >speculation to others. >http://brumac.8k.com Hello Dr. Maccabee, Yes, I would say that your site would qualify as an investigative resource. Especially in the physics/photographic arena. Amy Hebert's website(s) are also an excellent resource for IFO's. It's not often we see such sites devoted to possible explanations rather than simply listing sighting reports. I'm sure there are a few more out there, but our UK investigators I would believe are speaking of 'ONE' web location for such resources and databases. Todd Lemire
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 8 Re: Corso - Randle From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 12:29:45 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 16:13:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Randle >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 17:23:15 -0800 >Subject: Re: Corso >>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 00:52:18 EST >>Subject: Re: Corso >>>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:36:56 -0800 >>>Subject: Re: Corso >>While Corso was a commander he wasn't telling storys about >>meeting and having conversations with ET in a mine? Read a book >>called Stolen Valor. You will find many instances of people, >>some of lower ranks and some of higher ranks that lied about >>decorations, awards, and service to both family, friends, and >>community after their service was over. >>One high ranking general wacked himself when it was going to >>come out that he wore some decoration or award that he actually >>in fact never got. Robert, List, All - If I might step in here for a moment and point out that the high ranking general was in fact an admiral and that he had been challenged for wearing two "V" devices on ribbons. Mike Boorda, then Chief of Naval Operations did commit suicide, but if you learned nothing else from Stolen Valor, it should have been that Boorda's suicide probably had very little to do with this mistake. And I read in the newspaper this morning that Lt. Gen. Michael Hagee, who is going to become the Commandant of the Marines has removed three medals he wore because he can't find the necessary documentation. He said that he believed he had won those medals, none of them of great significance, but until he can get the proper documentation, he is not going to wear them. I wish him luck. I've spent years trying to document a Distinguished Flying Cross. In the military, the good deeds have the life a mayfly while the bad seem to have the permanence of the pyramids. But, if there was one lesson in Stolen Valor, it should be to get the facts right before making the allegations. KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 8 Re: Corso - Kaeser From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 14:10:26 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 16:15:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Kaeser >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 17:23:15 -0800 >Subject: Re: Corso <snip> >Could you read the link below and let me know where you >disagree. Please, no generalities but specific examples. Birnes >knew Col. Corso and seems to admire him. >http://www.garlitsdon.com/Corso.htm Ed- The fact that Birnes is making these statements fails to add to Corso's (or his) credibility. Indeed, Birnes may have admired Corso, but Corso was allegedly looking at the possibility of filing a suit against Birnes and the publisher. Thurmond may or may not have been aware of the subject of Corso's book, but he (or his staff) now allege that this was not the case and I'm not sure you have good evidence to dispute that. >I will agree that Col. Corso made mistakes and realize that he >had to be deceptive while working as an intelligence officer. >But he is not a liar; the VSA proves this. His stories may seem >unbelievable, but truth can be far stranger than any fiction. >The seamless introduction of the Roswell crash debris into the >industrial complex is a testimony to his cleverness. I find this discussion about lie detectors and Voice Stress Analysis to be interesting, but very simplistic. The validity of such testing relies on a variety of factors, which is one of the primary reasons that this type of evidence is not really admissable in court. In another post you question whether or not companies would spend a thousand dollars on testing that was not proven, and I'm afraid the answer is yes, and probably much more if they had to. While not admissable as evidence, this type of testing has proven to be useful in screening job applicants and usually keeps those would would flunk them out of the mix. They are often used for psychological reasons, and help to weed out the undesirables. There was one interesting test that I recall in which a highly respected firm was hired to test a number of employees about a missing Nikon camera. What he hadn't been told was that there was no missing camera and it was actually a test to see how accurate his testing was. In the end he pointed to one employee as the culprit with 100% certainty, and the limiations of such testing were exposed. The problem is that such testing is subjective, rather than objective, and there are too many variables involved. On the other side of the coin, there are pathological liars who could take such tests all day long and rarely fail to pass. Perhaps in some sense it's not a question of whether you're telling the truth, but rather a question of whether you "believe" you're telling the truth. All of this being said, I'm not convinced that Corso was an outright liar, but he (like many other veterans I've worked with) tended to exaggerate his record. Indeed, he may have done it for so long that he really believed it himself. But this is "dime store" psychoanalysis and I can only hope that he passed on as a happy man. Even if Corso was telling the truth, does it prove anything without additional evidence to support his contentions? There are many reasons to question the story he is telling, and very little to support it, and unfortunately he isn't around to question further to resolve these inconsistancies. We could point to this great "truth" about modern technological achievements and scream it at the top of our lungs, and the general public (at least in the U.S.) will still be more concerned about the war on terrorism, the economy and the question of who will win the Superbowl. I think that in the grand scheme of things, these are issues that are far to historical and obscure for most the general public to care about. Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 8 Secrecy News -- 01/08/03 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org> Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 14:47:34 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 16:33:39 -0500 Subject: Secrecy News -- 01/08/03 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2003, Issue No. 2 January 8, 2003 ** 100,000 DISPLACED PERSONS IN IRAQ ANTICIPATED ** RECENT FOIA DECISIONS ** NEW RELEASES 100,000 DISPLACED PERSONS IN IRAQ ANTICIPATED In the event of war with Iraq, up to one hundred thousand people may need to be accommodated in displaced persons camps along the Iraq-Kuwait border and in southern Iraq, according to a leaked U.S. military planning document posted on the web. The number of displaced civilians (DC) caused by coalition military action would be "minimal," according to the document, thanks to careful targeting of precision munitions. But displaced persons caused by Iraqi action are a "potentially large group," that could result from "massacre of repressed minorities (Shia)," use of weapons of mass destruction, and flooding. DC camps "will have to be rapidly constructed" with a 5,000 person camp available within four days of the outbreak of war, expandable to 100,000 person capacity within thirty days. The document was published by the Campaign Against Sanctions on Iraq (CASI), a humanitarian organization based at the University of Cambridge. See "Displaced Civilian (DC) Camp Operations," 11 November 2002, here: http://www.cam.ac.uk/societies/casi/info/021118displaced.pdf Related resources on the potential humanitarian and economic consequences of a war with Iraq may be found on the CASI web site here: http://www.cam.ac.uk/societies/casi/whatsnew.html RECENT FOIA DECISIONS The most recent judicial decisions in Freedom of Information Act lawsuits are a interesting mix of wins and losses, with some oddballs thrown in for good measure. See "New FOIA Decisions, October-December 2002" compiled by the Justice Department's Office of Information and Privacy here: http://www.usdoj.gov/oip/foiapost/2003foiapost1.htm NEW RELEASES Department of Energy laboratories failed to "adequately control unclassified visits and assignments by foreign nationals," according to a newly released DOE Inspector General report. At least two labs "permitted certain foreign nationals to access their facilities without ensuring that the visitors or assignees had been properly admitted or were authorized to remain in the United States." During the largely manufactured nuclear security scare of the late 1990s, this would have triggered congressional hearings and editorial fury. Today, in remarkable contrast, it hardly merits notice. See "The Department's Unclassified Foreign Visits and Assignments Program," DOE Inspector General Audit Report, December 2002 (3.2 MB PDF file): http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/doe/ig_visits.pdf The CIA belatedly published its semi-annual report to Congress on proliferation of weapons of mass destruction this week. See "Acquisition of Technology Relating to Weapons of Mass Destruction and Advanced Conventional Munitions, 1 July Through 31 December 2001": http://www.fas.org/irp/threat/bian_jan_2003.htm _______________________________________________ Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org with "subscribe" in the body of the message. OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html _______________________ Steven Aftergood Project on Government Secrecy Federation of American Scientists web: www.fas.org/sgp/index.html email: saftergood@fas.org voice: (202) 454-4691
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 8 CCCRN News: Another 2002 Formation From: Paul Anderson <psa@look.ca> Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 12:11:43 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 16:35:32 -0500 Subject: CCCRN News: Another 2002 Formation CCCRN NEWS The E-News Service of the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada January 8, 2003 _____________________________ Another 2002 Formation - Todd's Point, New Brunswick Another previously unreported formation. Three circles connected by pathways in grass, the circles being 7 metres (23 feet), 9 metres (30 feet) and 11 metres (36 feet) diameter, in Ganong Nature Park. Small holes in the centres of smallest and middle circles, and an off-centre 'dip' in the largest circle. Found overnight sometime in August, further details pending. www.herald.ns.ca/stories/2002/09/15/f172.raw.html This is the 20th reported formation for 2002. UFO Magazine There is also an excellent article by CCCRN Ontario coordinator Joanna Emery on the Canadian circles in the current December / January issue of UFO Magazine (USA). www.ufomag.com ____________________________ The Prairie Circular www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada/theprairiecircular.html The new quarterly newsletter of CCCRN! Premier issue, Winter 2002: Canadian Crop Circle Summary Report 2002 The Prairie Circular is the new quarterly print newsletter of CCCRN, the name reflecting how the prairies have become increasingly synonymous with this phenomenon; as a companion publication to the web site and CCCRN News, it is ideal for those who do not have internet access, but who want to be kept up to date on the crop circle phenomenon in Canada while also providing a convenient means for anyone to read up on the latest information at their leisure; the winter issue each year will feature the annual summary report Subscribe to The Prairie Circular and keep informed with the latest news, updates, articles, reviews and complete crop circle coverage from the Canadian prairies and across the country... only from CCCRN! Yearly subscription (4 issues, including the annual summary report): Canada: $12.00 Canadian, USA: $14.00 Canadian, Other Foreign: $16.00 Canadian (all prices include postage) The sale of the newsletter and related material helps the research work to continue, thank you for your support! ____________________________ CCCRN News is the e-news service of the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, providing e-mail updates with the latest news and reports on the crop circle phenomenon in Canada, as well as other information on CCCRN-related projects and events, sent free to your e-mail. To subscribe, send an e-mail with Subscribe CCCRN News in the subject line to: cccrnnews@look.ca The Canadian Crop Circle Research Network is a non-profit research organization which has been investigating and documenting the crop circle phenomenon and other possibly related phenomena in Canada since 1995, creating a liason between researchers, farmers, the public, the media and scientists in trying to solve this ongoing enigma. Main Office 202 - 325 East 14th Avenue Vancouver, BC V5T 2M9 Canada Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522 Cell: 604.727.1454 E-Mail: cccrn@look.ca Web: www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada =A9 Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, 2003
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 8 C.E.: Worldwide UFO Wave Prediction 03-15-03 From: Don Johnson <ufocat@CUFOS.ORG> Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 16:17:54 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 16:39:08 -0500 Subject: C.E.: Worldwide UFO Wave Prediction 03-15-03 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Based upon a careful analysis of trends in historical UFO reports in the UFOCAT database, I am making the following prediction. There will be a worldwide UFO wave in the month of March 2003 that will reach its maximum between March 15 and March 25. I am reasonably confident that this wave will involve Northern Europe. Another likely region is the Pacific Ocean, including Japan and the Hawaiian Islands, and possibly the Alaskan Aleutian Islands. I wanted to go on the record now, a full seven weeks before the anticipated peak in UFO activity, before any upswing in reporting starts. A paper outlining my reasons for this prediction will follow. Donald A. Johnson, Ph.D. UFOCAT archivist Center for UFO Studies ufocat@cufos.org
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 8 Re: Corso - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 22:49:11 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 18:48:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Hall >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 12:29:45 EST >Subject: Re: Corso >>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 17:23:15 -0800 >>Subject: Re: Corso >>>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 00:52:18 EST >>>Subject: Re: Corso >>>>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> >>>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>>Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:36:56 -0800 >>>>Subject: Re: Corso >>>While Corso was a commander he wasn't telling storys about >>>meeting and having conversations with ET in a mine? Read a book >>>called Stolen Valor. You will find many instances of people, >>>some of lower ranks and some of higher ranks that lied about >>>decorations, awards, and service to both family, friends, and >>>community after their service was over. >>>One high ranking general wacked himself when it was going to >>>come out that he wore some decoration or award that he actually >>>in fact never got. >Robert, List, All - <snip> >And I read in the newspaper this morning that Lt. Gen. Michael >Hagee, who is going to become the Commandant of the Marines has >removed three medals he wore because he can't find the necessary >documentation. He said that he believed he had won those medals, >none of them of great significance, but until he can get the >proper documentation, he is not going to wear them. I wish him >luck. I've spent years trying to document a Distinguished Flying >Cross. In the military, the good deeds have the life a mayfly >while the bad seem to have the permanence of the pyramids. <snip> >KRandle Kevin and List, I qualified for a sharpshooter medal (Caliber .30 carbine) during Air Force basic training in 1949 at Keesler AFB and would be fully entitled to wear it, but there is no way I can document or prove it without great effort, for a rather silly cause. Your DFC is quite another matter. Back when we were debating various issues about Roswell, you sent me copies of your service records and there is no question that you know whereof you speak on these matters. - Dick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 8 Re: C.E.: Worldwide UFO Wave Prediction 03-15-03 - From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 22:57:42 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 18:51:43 -0500 Subject: Re: C.E.: Worldwide UFO Wave Prediction 03-15-03 - >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >To: <- UFO UpDates Subscribers -> >Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 16:39:08 -0500 >Subject: UFO UpDate: C.E.: Worldwide UFO Wave Prediction 03-15-03 >From: Don Johnson <ufocat@CUFOS.ORG> >To: CURRENT-ENCOUNTERS@LISTSERV.AOL.COM >Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 16:17:54 -0500 >Subject: Prediction For March 15 2003 Worldwide UFO Wave >FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE >Based upon a careful analysis of trends in historical UFO >reports in the UFOCAT database, I am making the following >prediction. >There will be a worldwide UFO wave in the month of March 2003 >that will reach its maximum between March 15 and March 25. I am >reasonably confident that this wave will involve Northern >Europe. Another likely region is the Pacific Ocean, including >Japan and the Hawaiian Islands, and possibly the Alaskan >Aleutian Islands. >I wanted to go on the record now, a full seven weeks before the >anticipated peak in UFO activity, before any upswing in >reporting starts. A paper outlining my reasons for this >prediction will follow. >Donald A. Johnson, Ph.D. >UFOCAT archivist >Center for UFO Studies >ufocat@cufos.org I know Don Johnson as an entirely sane, well-qualified scientist who has contributed many positive things to UFO research, and therefore I am rather astonished at this prediction. Personally, I won't be holding my breath. Either he will be proven to be a great genius, or he will go down in flames. I hope it is the former, but I fear it will be the latter. - Dick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 9 Re: C.E.: Worldwide UFO Wave Prediction 03-15-03 - From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 17:11:22 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 08:55:46 -0500 Subject: Re: C.E.: Worldwide UFO Wave Prediction 03-15-03 - >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 22:57:42 +0000 >Fwd Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 18:51:43 -0500 >Subject: Re: C.E.: Worldwide UFO Wave Prediction 03-15-03 >>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>To: <- UFO UpDates Subscribers -> >>Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 16:39:08 -0500 >>Subject: UFO UpDate: C.E.: Worldwide UFO Wave Prediction 03-15-03 >>From: Don Johnson <ufocat@CUFOS.ORG> >>To: CURRENT-ENCOUNTERS@LISTSERV.AOL.COM >>Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 16:17:54 -0500 >>Subject: Prediction For March 15 2003 Worldwide UFO Wave >>FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE >>Based upon a careful analysis of trends in historical UFO >>reports in the UFOCAT database, I am making the following >>prediction. <snip> >>Donald A. Johnson, Ph.D. >>UFOCAT archivist >>Center for UFO Studies >>ufocat@cufos.org >I know Don Johnson as an entirely sane, well-qualified scientist >who has contributed many positive things to UFO research, and >therefore I am rather astonished at this prediction. Personally, >I won't be holding my breath. Either he will be proven to be a >great genius, or he will go down in flames. I hope it is the >former, but I fear it will be the latter. > - Dick I dunno. Whenever I see a UFO, I wave, just to be friendly. Then again, whenever they talk about UFO Flaps, an image enters my mind about flying discs with pelican wings heading South for the winter. <G> It will be interesting if his prediction is true. But something tells me it will be a Wave Off. Wendy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 9 Re: Corso - Kimball From: Paul Kimball <Kimballwood@aol.com> Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 20:23:04 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 09:09:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Kimball >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 17:21:02 -0800 >Subject: Re: Corso >>From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 12:14:53 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Corso >>>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:36:56 -0800 >>>Subject: Re: Corso >>>>From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net> >>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>>Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 20:43:5 -0500 >>>>Subject: Re: Corso >>>>>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> >>>>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>>>Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 10:40:41 -0800 >>>>>Subject: Re: Corso <snip> >We're still discussing him, aren't we? Ed: I think you have (inadvertently) provided the best possible explanation for why Corso spun the tales he did. Yes, we are still discussing him, and if there is a part of heaven reserved for spinners of tall tales, he's probably having a good chuckle. He certainly wouldn't be the first person to prey on the gullible, on those who so desperately want to believe, all the while making a buck or two, and enjoying his time in the spotlight. Unfortunately, he won't be the last - witness Dr. Brigitte Boisselier and her ludicrous claims to be cloning humans left, right and center. Regards, Paul Kimball
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 9 Podesta Statement 10-22-02 Transcript From: Grant Cameron <presidentialufo@presidency.com> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 23:50:04 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 09:16:51 -0500 Subject: Podesta Statement 10-22-02 Transcript www.presidentialufo.com/podesta_testimony.htm Transcript of remarks made by John Podesta, former Chief of Staff to President Bill Clinton at WASHINGTON, D.C. SCI FI CHANNEL SPONSORED PRESS CONFERENCE, October 22, 2003 I thought I might start with the famous line with Admiral Stockdale "Who am I? What am I doing here?" Or Maybe I should start with who I am not? I have actually never been followed by a tractor beam. I have never been bathed in the glow of the white light coming from an object in the sky. I certainly have never been 'taken'. Why my obsession with... for some of you was well known while I was in the White House with the X-files during my time there. It earned me the honorary title of the "First Fan", I think I always understood the difference between fact and fiction. So I guess you could call me a skeptic. But I am skeptical about many things, including the notion that government always knows best, and that the people can not be trusted with the truth. That's why I have dedicated three decades of my life, both in private practice including my work on the Senate Judiciary Committee, and my work at the White House to the fundamental principle of protecting openness in government. Harold Cross, for those of you who know who he is - was actually the founder of the Freedom of Information Act - the father of the Freedom of Information Act. He was a well known journalism professor at the University of Missouri. He said, "The right to speak, and the right to print, without the right to know, are pretty empty." So I believe that the notion of open government Freedom of Information - the fundamental tenets of the Freedom of Information Act are really part and parcel of our first amendment rights. I think it is worth going back and reminding all of you just exactly what those tenets really are, that form the basis of that act. They are that disclosure is the general rule and not the exception. That all individuals have equal rights of access. That the burden is on the government to justify the withholding of the document, not on the person requesting it, and that individuals improperly denied access to documents have the right seek conjunctive relief in the courts. That's why I am here today, to add my voice to Bonnie (Hammer), Leslie (Kean) and Lee (Helfrich). I think it's time to open the books on questions that have remained in the dark on the question of government investigations of UFOs. Its time to find out what the truth really is that's out there. We ought to do it really because its right. We ought to do it because the American people quite frankly can handle the truth, and we ought to do it because it's the law. Let me explain what I mean by that. In 1995, President Clinton signed Executive Order 12958 which sets tough standards for classifying documents, and led to an unprecedented effort to declassify millions of pages from our Nation's diplomatic and national security history. Before President Clinton signed that Executive Order, a tiny minority of classified documents - only 5% had fixed classification dates. Since the signing of that order now, more than 50% of those documents are marked for declassification in 10 years or less. Perhaps I think even more significantly during the five years that the executive order was in place, its policy resulted in the declassification of what were 800 million pages of historically valuable records, with the prospect of many hundreds of millions of more being declassified in the next few years. To give you a bit of a comparison of that. In the previous 15 years the government had declassified a total of 188 million pages. So I think that was a singular accomplishment of the Clinton administration for further generations. Our history books will rely on the information contained in those declassified documents. Scholars, historians, journalists, and everyday researchers around the world, not just in the United States will explore the past and help guide our future. But the work is not done. That Order required the automatic declassification of records that are 25 years or older, subject to a very narrow set of exceptions, and I want to just note two of those, and as an introduction to Lee, who is going to talk about the Freedom of Information Act that has been requested. One is that they reveal the automatic declassification rule does not apply if it reveals the identity of a confidential human source - and I underline the word human. I don't think that we are talking about that in the cases that ought to be looked at, reviewed, and declassified. The other is they would curiously or demonstrably undermine ongoing diplomatic activities of the United States, and unless we have ongoing diplomatic activities with people who are extraterrestrials that I'm unaware of, I don't think that exception doesn't apply either. So there are these cases in which documents haven't been made available to the American public. The American public as Bonnie noted is quite skeptical about the fact that the government won't make them available for public inspection. These are records that are more than 25 years old. The ought to be declassified. They ought to be released, and we ought to be able to see for ourselves what is included in those. This note this morning in the Washington Post. Again a Novak story, that notes that our government does not always reveal the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, and even though the highest leaders of our government don't always tell the facts just as they are. That's why the Freedom of Information is so important, and the information that is included in the request that Lee will discuss. It is so critical to be put in front of the American public so that they can make their own judgement about the conduct of the program of investigation as well as the underlying facts that the Air Force and other discover. So with that let me turn it over to Lee, and let her discuss the request that is being made. ---
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 9 Einstein Right: Gravity Fast As Light From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 09:21:04 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 09:21:04 -0500 Subject: Einstein Right: Gravity Fast As Light http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/space/01/08/gravity.speed.ap/index.html Einstein Right: Gravity Fast As Light Wednesday, January 8, 2003 Posted: 10:38 AM EST (1538 GMT) SEATTLE (AP) -- Einstein was right. The speed of gravity matches the speed of light, according to astronomers who took advantage of a rare planetary alignment to measure one of the fundamental forces of nature. Edward B. Fomalout of the National Radio Astronomy Observatory and Sergei Kopeikin of the University of Missouri measured the amount that light from a distant star was deflected by the gravity of Jupiter as the planet passed in front of the star. Albert Einstein, who formulated basic theories about space, time and relativity, had assumed that gravity moved with the speed of light, about 186,000 miles (300,000 kilometers) per second, "but until now, no one had measured it," said Kopeikin. "Einstein was right, of course," said Fomalout. The measurement is one of the last fundamental constants in physics to be established and Fomalout admitted, "gravity is not well understood." The researchers used 10 radio telescopes scattered across the Earth from Hawaii to Germany to precisely measure how light from a distant quasar, a type of star, was bent as it passed by Jupiter on its way to the Earth. Jupiter is in the precise position for such a measurement only once a decade. To make the measurement, the instruments had to detect a minute deflection of the light. Fomalout compared the required precision to being able to measure the size of a silver dollar sitting on the moon's surface, or measuring the width of a human hair from 250 miles (400 kilometers) away. Craig Hogan, a University of Washington astronomer, said the achievement "is an important advance for physics," but he predicted that new techniques will be developed that will measure gravity's speed even more accurately. "You can expect a series of experiments now," he said. Fomalout and Kopeikin said their results are accurate within about 20 percent. Knowing the precise speed of gravity is important to physicists testing such modern ideas as the superstring, which holds that fundamental particles in the universe are made up of small vibrating loops or strings. It also affects some basic space- time theories. Copyright 2003 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. [UFO UpDates thanks nhimel for the lead
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 9 Papua New Guinea - UFOs Reported To Police From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 09:26:45 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 09:26:45 -0500 Subject: Papua New Guinea - UFOs Reported To Police http://www.postcourier.com.pg/20030107/news08 UFOs Reported To Police Police have received frequent reports of "unidentified flying objects" (UFO) and submarines in the Western Province. Southern regional police commander John Marru says there have been numerous reports of sightings of unidentified aircraft, mainly within the South Fly and Middle Fly areas, since 2000. Mr Marru said police have investigated the matter but have not established any facts. He said they were not sure if the flying objects were real aircraft. "We have also received intelligence report on the sighting of a submarine within the same area,'' Mr Marru said. He said the sighting of aircraft usually went in the same direction as the submarine. Mr Marru says the reports have been passed on to Australian Federal Police, the National Intelligence Organisation and the Defence intelligence but local police have not received any response. He dismissed suggestions that they were aircraft that were linked to the gun and drug trade between the borders of Australia and PNG. [UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 9 Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 09:31:10 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 09:31:10 -0500 Subject: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? Source: The Seattle Times http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/134611406_astro08m0.html Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? By Eric Sorensen Seattle Times science reporter The hands-down best freebie at this week's American Astronomical Society meeting in Seattle is the Los Alamos National Laboratory alien pen, a fat chrome-plastic alien with a bulbous head and, naturally, green eyes. But two floors up from the Washington State Convention and Trade Center exhibition hall, hundreds of astronomers yesterday learned that life in outer space is likely to lack green eyes and be far more prosaic, tiny and, quite possibly, completely unlike life as we know it. This blunt appraisal came from the University of Washington's Center for Astrobiology and Early Evolution, one of the first programs in the country to give an advanced degree in astrobiology. The program, space missions looking for clues of life in space and the capacity crowd at the discussion all point to boundless interest in how life might have begun here and how it might exist on other planets. But even defining what life is can be tricky, with various interpreters bouncing around notions of replication, growth, metabolism, evolution and the presence of water and carbon. No universal definition exists, said John Baross, a UW professor of oceanography. Moreover, life elsewhere might be unlike life we have seen here, which would make it hard to know it if we see it, he said. "I also don't think that a carbon-based life found on solar bodies will resemble Earth life at the molecular level," he said. "We expect to see something quite a bit different, and we have to be prepared for that." Roger Buick, an associate UW professor of Earth and space sciences and astrobiology, warned that some planets we look at may have once had life but became inhospitable as their sun's intensity increased. Like many astrobiologists, he suggested looking to the Earth's fossil record for analogies for the rest of the universe. That is difficult as some of the oldest fossils are destroyed as the planet's crust is subducted and recycled. Still, the evidence so far suggests that even if we find microbial life as can be found in fossils here going back 3 billion years, it is a far cry from the intelligent life sought by the likes of SETI, the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence. "It's taken us at least 2 =BE billion years for intelligent life to arise on this planet," said Buick, "and there's no reason to suppose that on any other planet that has complex organisms that they need necessarily become intelligent very fast." David Stahl, a UW microbiologist, agreed: "Visitors to the Earth during any average point in its history would have been greeted only by microorganisms," he said. And even today, most living stuff on the planet is small, even if the life we tend to identify is big, he said. Of the 1.4 million species identified so far, the majority are plants, insects and other animals. Yet, most of the tree of life is unicellular and prokaryotic, or lacking a nucleus. The microscopic life in a single tablespoon of seawater contains more genetic information than the human genome, he noted. "If we're even going to begin to approach this question of origins of cellular life on Earth or other planetary bodies... it's essential that we begin to understand the fundamental biology of this planet, this planet of the microbes," Stahl said. "They are the glue that binds together the macroscopic world. "You can scrape all the big stuff off this planet and the biosphere wouldn't mind very much. It would go on clicking as it did for 3-plus billion years before the big stuff made its presence known." Eric Sorensen: 206-464-8253. Copyright =A9 2003 The Seattle Times Company [UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 9 How To Invade The Planet And Be Taken Seriously From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 09:33:56 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 09:33:56 -0500 Subject: How To Invade The Planet And Be Taken Seriously Source: The The Age - Melbourne http://www.theage.com.au/1010744667380.html How To Invade The Planet And Be Taken Seriously January 9 2003 Aliens need serious advice on how to make their mark on the sceptical population of Earth, writes John Weldon. This is a plea on behalf of all humans who consider themselves at least open to the idea that we might not be alone in the universe to any alien civilisations who are now, or who are contemplating, visiting Earth: Whether you're here to eat us, clone us, teach us, or just show us how to set the clock on the DVD player, please, if you're going to make contact, and if you wish your ideas to be taken in any way seriously, then think carefully about whom you choose to reveal yourselves to, and how you do so. For instance, if you're going to abduct people and take them for a joyride, why not - instead of leaving them with nothing more than addled memories of silver-suited types conducting bizarre experiments with cattle, whilst babbling on about the origin of the species - give them a souvenir program, or T-shirt, perhaps with "I've Been To Betelgeuse Too" emblazoned across the front? Better still, keep a few Kodak disposable cameras on hand and take a few snaps of the abductee with his arms around a couple of little green men, preferably while he's wearing his souvenir tee. At the very least, if you're going to impart world-changing news to ordinary folks then either get them to write it down, or give them a press kit. Finally, when you return them to Earth, rather than leave people with nothing more to show for their adventures than a tiny V- shaped scar on their upper arms, perhaps you could stamp "Abducted By Aliens" across their foreheads in indelible space ink. Believe me it would attract people's attention. Further, if you are going to land here then why not do so in a populated place. I know that parking in our major cities is a problem, especially now that all the best spots are reserved for mothers with prams, but please do try. Buzzing isolated rural folk and dissecting their livestock, might seem like fun to you, but it carries very little weight with us. If you really want to cause a stir, then buzz a TV station and dissect a current affairs host. We'd all love to see what makes them tick, and you'd be guaranteed of at least three minutes on the late-night news, providing, of course, Wayne Carey keeps his pants on this year. You could even take the plunge and hire a campaign manager to plan your arrival properly. There are a lot more people down here than you might think who would love to believe in you, but as it stands at the moment, you have as much chance of being taken seriously as Peter Costello has of becoming prime minister. Lastly, and I really shouldn't have to say this, under no circumstances should you choose as your avatar here on Earth, an oversexed, former French pop star-cum-motor racing journalist, with a penchant for dressing like an extra from Doctor Who and who appears to all and sundry, to have gone completely off the Raels. Nuff said? John Weldon is a Melbourne writer. [UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 9 UFOs Over Runcorn UK From: Eric Morris <bufosc@hotmail.com> Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 16:57:39 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 13:08:08 -0500 Subject: UFOs Over Runcorn UK BUFOSC are presently investigating a possible 'multiple UFO landing' case near Runcorn. Observed by many witnesses over the past two weeks BUFOSC are presently analyzing all the reports. "This is an interesting time of the New Year to have a multi witness double sighting" explains Eric Morris, BUFOSC's Founder but it could turn out to be a generic RPV like the Dragon's Eye RPV currently being sent to the Gulf for military use. However, we have it on reliable authority the Dragon's Eye is an American dirigible, but it appear's the UK's avionics industry might be experimenting over the north west with an RPV a little smaller than a mini car with wings.We know these can be assembled in minutes and send real time images to hardware on the ground. No response has been heard from the MOD although the sightings have been reported to them.Interestingly there has been an increase in military activity over the north west of late, a C130 Hercules was observed circling the sighting area on Thursday 9th January 2003. This makes it an interesting time for BUFOSC with their Rendlesham 2 lecture next Tuesday (14th Jan) in Runcorn. Morris stated "There will be a full house, people should arrive early on the night as we are in for a busy night and a busy few days between then and now in what is Britain's probable first multi witness UFO sighting of 2003". Morris also states " BUFOSC are the first people the Press contact when anything like this happens, BUFOSC's ten year history in the North West makes BUFOSC a high profile group from Britain and all the Press know where we are. This just makes a mockery of Fortean Times revelation that 'UFology is dead' in 2002. It shows the inexperience of the staff at Fortean Times, they now appear to have egg all over their faces, they deserve it, he states".
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 9 For Your Collection From: Loren Coleman <lcolema1@maine.rr.com> Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 09:09:13 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 13:09:44 -0500 Subject: For Your Collection FYI - I am not financially associated with selling these but thought you'd like to see these..... http://www.paranormalphernalia.com/item.asp?nProductID=2382 FIGURINES - COLLECTOR'S SET OF ALIENS - $30.95 Description: Four different hand-painted species are modeled in size to each other (3.5"- 5" tall), based on documented encounters. Each comes complete with collectible trading card.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 9 Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? - From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 12:59:08 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 16:46:05 -0500 Subject: Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? - >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >To: <- UFO UpDates Subscribers -> >Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 09:31:10 -0500 >Subject: UFO UpDate: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? >Source: The Seattle Times >http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/134611406_astro08m0.html <article snipped> This is a similar point to one made by Dr. Michio Kaku at a recent symposium in Washington DC and repeated during an online chat with Chris Wallace: http://www.mkaku.org/abc.html He speculates that while we are a "Type 0" civilization, it would take a "Type 3" civilization to travel between the stars. Such an advanced civilization would have little reason to take notice of ants on their freeway through the universe. Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 9 Re: Bob Young - Velez From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 16:11:04 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 16:50:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Bob Young - Velez >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 00:48:15 EST >Subject: Re: Bob Young >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 23:14:02 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Bob Young >>>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 17:50:57 EST >>>Subject: Re: Bob Young >>>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>>Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 04:49:12 -0500 >>>>Subject: Re: Bob Young >>>>>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >>>>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>>>Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 18:15:33 EST >>>>>Subject: Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or Fact?' >>>>>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>>>>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>>>>Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 13:49:10 -0500 >>>>>>Subject: Re: Sci-Fi's 'UFO Phenomenon: Science Fiction Or Fact?' ><snip> >>>>>>...and Budd Hopkins' abductees, John Mack's, Ray Fowler's, etc. >>>>>>How do all these men dare to believe what is being reported to >>>>>>them by people who they have determined (through investigation >>>>>>and after having spent countless hours with them ) to be >>>>>>credible individuals. >>>>>Because they are either believers, themselves, or are making a >>>>>career out of it. You may take your pick. These are two >>>>>possibilities. >>>>Another possibility is; that they are simply going where the >>>>data leads them. >>>Yes, that is always a possibility. >>Hola Bob, >>I asked: >>>>If you have "investigated" abduction cases yourself, I would be >>>>very interested to hear the results of the data you gathered >>>>that has led you to believe that all the individuals you >>>>referred to are making theirs up. >I never said they were making anything up. You are putting words >into my mouth. Please see: >>>>>I've looking into so-called Abduction tales that wouldn't have >>>>>even existed if it weren't for the UFO investigators who were, >>>>>quite literally, creating the "data" that they thought they were >>>>>collecting. Getting a straight answer out of you to a straight question is like pulling teeth. I'm going to quote (wholesale) from my previous post to you: >I asked: >>>If you have "investigated" abduction cases yourself, I would be >>>very interested to hear the results of the data you gathered >>>that has led you to believe that all the individuals you >>>referred to are making theirs up. >You responded: >>As usuall, you are putting the entire world through the prism >>of "the abductee". Perhaps it's because you claim to be one, >>I don't know. I responded: >Which doesn't even come close to answering my question. You >have a habit of avoiding a direct response to direct/specific >questions. 'Side-stepping' or 'dancing around' legitimate questions >that are put to you (especially questions that are based on your >own statements/proclamations) is _not_ an acceptable substitute >for responding to them directly. It's now two posts down the road and I _still_ haven't gotten a "straight" answer to my question. Let me break it down: Question: Have you ever 'investigated' an (any) abduction case? Qualifier; I don't mean _read_ about the case, but actually 'investigated' a case, any case, yourself. As in; interviewed the principles, family members, and associates along with securing any psychological work-up that may be required to help establish the credibility, or not, of the witness. (as Budd does) Systematically checked out the 'details' of the report. (as Budd does) Conducted any tests that may be required (ground trace etc.) to verify any pertinent physical evidence. (As Budd does) Plus a number of other checks and balances that are too long to list here. Have you performed _any_ of the above _before_ you go running your mouth in a public forum - as if you actually know what you're talking about? You always have an awful lot to say about abduction researchers and their subjects. I just want to know what personal experience and 'data' those pontifications of yours are based on. If anything. I ask because I seriously doubt that anything you have to say about abduction researchers, abductees, or the phenomena itself, is based on anything more substantial than your own personal 'take' on the subject. I can't be any plainer than that. You told me that I have no idea 'what' you may or may not have investigated. So I'm asking: "What have you investigated?" Show me your data. I'm open minded. I'll take a look. I'm not going to ask again. If I get another song and dance out of you, I will simply ignore all future posts to this List with the name 'Young' in the header. If you continue to ignore legitimate questions that are put to you by members of this List, you're going to find that you're "eating lunch all by yourself." John Velez Sign the International Petition to the United Nations for disclosure of information pertaining to UFOs. http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 9 Re: Corso - Gehrman From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 13:48:43 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 17:39:18 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Gehrman >From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 11:41:15 -0500 >Subject: Re: Corso >>From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 18:49:44 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Corso >>It's silly - no other word will do - to get pious about someone >>we want to defend, by saying they'd never have reached their >>high positions if they'd been dishonest. History, nowt to mention >>the daily newspaper, shows otherwise. (Would all those top Enron >>executives have been given their high positions if they'd been >>dishonest?) Would Richard Russell have appointed Corso if he'd >>thought Corso was a fraud? Maybe not, but Corso, unknown to >>Russell, could have been a fraud anywhere. >And just this morning, the press reported something about the >commandant of the US Marine Corps -- that he's been wearing >three medals that he can't prove he's earned. He's been forced >to take them off. >Of course, no one would ever have been named to this high >position who's unreliable in this way....... Greg, Kevin, Richard, Robert, Steve, Jan, Let me try to answer you all at one time. First off, I understand that folks lie; they do it all the time under all circumstances, some more than others. For over thirty years I have worked with emotionally disturbed children; the main symptom they share is the telling of false and elaborate stories about themselves and their adventures. This is an act of compensation for their tragic and empty lives and is perfectly understandable. One of the best methods of working with this problem is to give these kids real adventures that they can talk about and at the same time, gently encouraging them to be as truthful as they can about their real lives, and pointing out how self-destructive lies can become. But these remedies are usually too little, too late and many continue this behavior into their adult lives, but they get better at it. Compensatory behavior is hard to modify. So I think I understand the nature of lying. When I first learned that Col. Corso was about to spill the beans on the government's UFO involvement, I was encouraged, because I knew that he had been involved in the Warren Commission investigation during the sixties and played a leading role in the MIA fiasco, so it was disconcerting when everyone began discounting and dismissing his record and the real things he accomplished as if they were the mad raving of a demented old man. But he was an intelligence operative and he was hired by Richard Russell to investigate the Kennedy assissanation. That's a fact! "The Colonel had a great deal of credibility and expertise, not only as a military officer but also in the fields of intelligence and national security." (Strom Thurmond) Anyone who understands the history of that period knows that Col. Corso was a right wing darling and hero. I don't happen to agree with most of Col. Corso's ideology, but I do know he was a participant. I tried to elaborate on this in the FBI File's article. I saw the interview where Corso revealed the time machine information and thought, "This is far too strange". About that time I learned that Corso had been on Art Bell so I wrote for the tapes of that show and then listened to his fantastic stories several times. I could see why folks had a hard time believing them. I had already worked with Mike and knew how exacting and particular he was so I contacted him. Don't you think this was logical behavior? I was beginning to have my own doubts about what was true in Corso's account so I wanted to find out for myself. I was not a true believer or disillusioned groupie. I knew that Corso was who he said he was (historically) but I also understood the human tendency to tell tall tails. I wanted to find out for myself, and I hired Mike. I didn't know what to expect. I ordered a new tape from Art Bell, and sent that to Mike and waited for his appraisal. Mike didn't know Philip Corso from Greg Corso and had no opinion about any of this and hadn't read the book. I hadn't shared my feelings about the tapes so he certainly wasn't trying to please me in any way. He contacted me a few weeks later and explained that he couldn't find a trace of deception. Neither Bell, Alexander nor Corso were being deceptive in any way. His preliminary report was sent to this list. I have complete faith in Mike's analysis because I've had the privilege of working with him on other projects and admire his intelligence, and technical expertise. You can dismiss his voice stress analysis, but I think that's your loss. There's no doubt that Corso did make serious mistakes. He implied that Willy Ley was an ex-nazi, when in fact he'd spent the war years here in the US. (does anyone know how Willy Ley died?) Some of the information he thinks is true could have been supplied by sources who were mistaken or lying (the space based technology?). The way the book was written makes it hard to separate Corso's information from information that Birnes has researched himself. The section on the Roswell crash is especially confusing. One function of the list and this particular discussion could be to sort the mistakes from the possible lies and then search for suitable explanations. I'd be happy to work with others on that project, but in a spirit of cooperation, not confrontation. I'm very confused about why there seems to be a problem with Corso's North Africa service. And I'd have to be blind, deaf ,drugged and brain damaged to misunderstand the implications of rank inflation. But its a crying shame to dismiss Corso's fascinating memories as fraudulent, and nothing but lies. Ed
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 9 Re: Corso - Bennett From: Colin Bennett <sharkley@panzerben.fsworld.co.uk> Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 22:50:36 -0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 18:37:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Bennett >From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 12:14:53 -0500 >Subject: Re: Corso Hello all List Savants, >Corso supports Kaufmann. Kaufmann has been shown to be a fraud. >What does that say about Corso? As is usual with the style and approach of Jan Aldrich, his analysis of Corso and his book is brutalistic Ufological Maoism. It is contemptuous, dismissive and as an approach to a book and a man is terribly old-fashioned. The interrogatory technique is familiar: go to Frank Kauffman and the like and squeeze their nuts until they confess to a mistake, a misrepresentation, a misunderstanding, yes even a lie. Then take this raft of deviancy and equate it to the "reality" (a favorite word of the List, almost as if "reality" were gainsaid, neat as a ham sandwich and just as easy to reach for) of the man, life and his views. After reading from Shakespeare to Sontag through Milton and via Chaucer, are we to accept this as the measure of a human being? Do our weakest links define us? There is blatant hypocrisy here. Who is going to cast the first stone? The so-called investigators, who measure inaccuracies by inaccuracies? Has Jan as man, boy, or sourpuss sage kept such a choir-boy pristine nature through his many life transformations such that he has never adjusted the frame a little to show himself in the best possible light? Of course he has not. He is a disgusting human like the rest of us, and he no doubt cuts corners occasionally as Nature does, and as do all of us. Institutions, culture and society are defined by massive fantasies, and a man starts a cyclical fantasy every time he thinks about buying a new car, or puts a comb through his hair. Jan Aldrich, like all of us, adjusts the frame somewhere along the line. The ability to adjust the frame is the only thing that keeps us alive. Where would we be without our vanity, our ego and demented dreams? Jan Aldrich, despite his protests to the contrary, is a mess, like the rest us, like Corso, and he bleeds as many confusions and misrepresentations as anyone else. The best we can do as mortals is try and maintain the quest for identity as time bears down upon us. Would he like being investigated to such a degree as Kauffman and Corso have been investigated and put under the microscope? No, he would not. Because to be sure, we would find some claims difficult to prove, you can be sure of that. I myself have had quite a few changes of direction in my life. I made choices, mainly out of boredom and the desire to see what was round the next bend in the river. For most of these things I can provide the appropriate require reality-passport. I have certificates, photographs, letters, indeed public records of family, school, university, but there is one mad phase of 18 months that I would find difficult to prove as Dick Hall's sharpshooter badge. I was a mercenary soldier during that time (in the early 1960s) but I would find this very difficult to prove because the whole affair was of such a murky nature in every (I say no more) respect that records of who, where, when, or whatever were not kept for many fairly obvious reasons. In any case, let's just say that I pulled triggers in foreign countries and some memories might be a lot longer than one would ever think. It was all gross stupidity, but it was silly youth. I have one battered photograph of myself peeping out of the turret of a battered Daimler armoured car. I look back over the years at this photograph and sometimes I don't believe I had this experience myself. On lost afternoons gazing at this picture, often I ask was this ever real? Who was I then? Our experience is forever an holistic, fluid, mental dimension, which like the heroes of Sartre, Conrad, Melville and Doestevski, forever refuses to define itself. All those years ago I sat in a turret waiting to be attacked. Nearly forty years later I sit in London waiting to be attacked. What is time? What is personality? Thus you cannot define a human being in terms of "solid" fact versus "vaporous" fiction. Do we not learn anything from Literature, Art, or History? These things teach us surely that this crude concept called reality is forever a set of changing approximations, and there are all kinds of shades of ever- changing shades of gray in between the two theoretical polarities. In my study of Adamski, Looking for Orthon, I demonstrated that both the measure of the day and the man never fits completely. Forty years later, we still cannot fit the Oswald time scheme together, as I discussed in Politics of the Imagination. As quantum theory indicates, Nature does not like being observed too closely. >I will say that Corso always comes back again and again each >time as I mentioned before set back to zero again just like some >video game. This thing runs in cycles over and over again the >evidence that Corso is a liar comes out, everything goes away >for some months, then we are told that there is no such evidence >and everything starts up again from zero as if nothing was ever >posted on this before. I sympathise with Jan Aldrich because he is desperately trying to close a famous case. But his bad-tempered growling shows frustration at not being able to do so. The great Holmes himself could have told him that a case is never closed, if only because Nature doesn't work with watertight compartments. This what we call reality won't ever behave itself, lie down and die. The Trickster will escape to create new seasons of games, such as MJ12, or Y2K. Such is the structure of time. The Trickster has to escape. Of course Jan would like this "reality" to be a closed circuit, and the Trickster either dead, passive or supine, ready to be carved up into academic consumer- blocks and deep frozen forever. But reality does not consist of facts, documents and investigations, because "reality" is a dialogue with a live animal. Jan's problem is that reality can answer back, won't behave itself, and on many occasions its behavior is quite impossible, if not reprehensible. He hates Corso because Corso dead or alive wiggles his nose at all of us behind our backs. The truth about Corso is measured by our comic outrage. Like Adamski, even in death he will not behave like a corpse. We see the same struggle for factual reality within the Aldrich/Friedman dialogues as with the Aldrich/Gehrman dialogues and also the Randle/Friedman dialogues. They want certainty, but they do not appear to be aware of or have read the existential literature of the past 200 years, which is about the same quest. Lamb, De Quncey, Coleridge, were all asking the same questions about testing experience to a degree of accuracy when it doesn't consists of monads of accuracy in the first place. I am going to post a long and detailed separate postmodern treatment of these dialogues. They are very important texts of our time. It will oppose those argue and illustrate as if see experience and history were legal cases to be "solved" in the Agatha Christy sense. All parties involved in these dialogues seem to be possessed of the old deterministic assumptions that the deeper you go in an investigation, then the more accurate the conclusion becomes. That is a nice thing to tell sixth form science students, but scientific time has moved on. Stan should know of all people that Nature does not deal in accuracies. It deals in averages, probabilities, and uncertainty. At a certain level of decimal points as it were, all probing scalpel blades will be blunted by mounting disorder, the situation becoming so unstable at the accuracy level tried for that a single moment of whimsical absent-mindedness in office procedure can become the butterfly's wing that changes the weather over central America. This is Chaos theory, but I don't hear of such things in this list because of the inward-looking monastic scholasticism that is present. Arguments, Ufological or otherwise, cannot be continued in such isolation. They must be seen against a developing context of history and culture Since this List on many occasions appears to be rather anti- intellectual, and somewhat old-fashioned, I know that all I am going to get in response here is either a contemptuous silence, or a stream of abuse. What I am trying to do is open out the Ufological discussion, lift it up from its terribly depressing case-history monastic scholasticism and see itself in cultural context. But back to Jan. He should be very careful. This marvelously grumpy and grim-faced holier-than-thou act sets him up for beautiful satire. Like the characters in the outside world, Ufology should prepare itself for satire, that is if it big enough and strong enough. The gurus won't like being satirized of course, if only because shielded from the glare of publicity they grow like untroubled wild flowers in the shade, and they take themselves far too seriously. This why the much tougher outer world regards the insular pen-toed preciousness of Ufology as the funniest thing since the Alabama Hayseeds. The main older cultures got used to being satirically wasted long ago, and they live with it. Look at your self in the mirror and laugh Jan, you are big enough to do that. The Brentford Polonius recently did a beautiful job satirizing yours truly, and I had to take it like a man, and I hope you are big enough to do that and don't shrink back into your hole in the river bank snarling and snapping like an old gopher with a bad leg. Now, as Ed Gehrman suggests, we have an electro-mechanical means of assessing truth? This is putting a lot of faith into the polygraph and Voice Stress Analyser, both of which (as Bruce Maccabee will confirm) fundamentally a digitized and souped-up versions (in a smart case) of 1880s high-impedance voltmeters. Why not throw in the Brighton ferry as a bargain? It would be just as useful as regards the argued as the assumption that the electrical measure of skin resistance or voice stress varies directly as our emotional state. Bringing robots into semi- metaphysical issues is of course provides a rich and rare comedy for Fortean connoisseurs. It is an action straight out of Illuminatus or The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. Perhaps we should have measured Kaufman's blood-sugar, or Corso's faeces? If you don't mind me saying so folks, this is hilarious, somewhat behaviourist, and not a little fascist if it were not so funny. Often in this List is the recommendation that a Ufological institution be formed to carry out peer-reviews of experiences, sightings, books and claims. Should deviants be dealt like prisoners and patients? Has not Jan read any book about such official psycho-medical attitudes over the past fifty years? As Thomas Szaz pointed out, we tend to make social and intellectual non-conformists into sick people, witness Tim Leary, and cloudbuster Reich. Corso and Kauffman bless them were both heading for that treatment before they died, mishandled by pot-brained input=output Pavlovian rationalists. Perhaps we should apply Skinner Boxes, ECT, pre-frontal lobotomy to abductees and men who claim to have met Venusians until we get the answers we like, that is answers we can manage most easily, and live with most comfortably. Big Brother sign: ONLY THE HEALTHY ARE REAL. Finally, what we test is our own deep-rooted fear that a truly fantastic reality may well be in place, and an even more fantastic reality in place on top of that. When we imagine, we create a form of life. Jan, I will give both yourself and Ed Gehrman an escape route, though I don't expect any thanks for it. Postmodern thinking has provided a means by which books such as that by Corso can be evaluated without getting bogged down in whether the author told fibs or not. We can regard The Day After Roswell not as a tale told by an idiot full of sound and fury signifying nothing, but as a modern mythological text. Mythology is a word hated by Dick Hall, but what is mythology? Usually used in the common sense as meaning a lie, mythology is not a lie but the purest DNA of culture and time. A mythological text in this sense is a text that will open like a book to reveal deep structure. In the postmodern sense, anything and everthing is a "text" that can be read in this way. The MJ12 operations manual, the Ramey memo, and even a manual of electronic circuitry is a "text". Postmodernism sees the world we physically experience as not different to the world we see on the stage. It is a theatre with actors playing parts, rather like Shakespeare's idea of "all the world is a stage". With this in mind, we can see readily that as a book, The Day after Roswell will become like Leslie and Adamski's Flying Saucers Have landed, a text rich in military anthropology and techno-lore. Just like Sprenger's Malleus Maleficarum, or De Sade's Justine, you don't have to believe this evil and immoral nonsense contained therein to see such books as tapestries that portray how heavens and hells weave through the body and soul, mind and society. Like these books and others like them, in time it will be Corso's book as image that will remain and be judged. As image, the book is totally successful. It is exciting, challenging, deeply mysterious, and as a bonus it annoys Jan Aldrich to death. As art form, it will remain forever as maps of industrial phrenology, cyto-skeletons of national intrigue. Just like Ruppelt's The Report on Unidentified Flying Objects, the warp and woof of Corso's book will be interpreted as a part of a Bayeaux Tapestry of the of the Military Industrial Complex, quite independent of the extra-textual character of the author. Against such a background, the faulty ego-projections of Corso, Adamski et al say, will be lost compared to the cultural maps his troubled personal gave birth to. His book will become not a thing to be measured so much as a thing to be experienced. Such texts will serve to re-mythologise the world, to cast out old Ordnance Survey and re-enchant the landscape with as many hobbit forms as appear in the books of Bowen and Huyghe and in the garuda forms revealed recently on this List. To reveal such things is the major quest of Ufology. Ufological writers and researchers are helping with many others to open up the world picture again after countless years of being locked in ice. This is the definition, function, and active mission of Ufology. Such texts will, whether we like it or not, serve as the entrance to the mysterium of the late twentieth century, just as both Y2K and MJ12 leads us into the mysterium of the twenty-first. Anything that can be unwound, decoded, or as we say now "deconstructed" to show how the human mind works can be regarded as a mythological text in that it is a journey, an adventure in thought through a mass of cultural complexity, any element of which can be right or wrong in the factual sense. Technology is a language with a grammar, dictionaries, and encyclopedias. For example, a one-transistor circuit containing a resistor a capacitor, and a coil, will, when historically deconstructed, give the whole entire history of electrical development from the time of Michael Faraday. Seeing these books as myth means that they are examined as cultural fabric, just as old stonework, or a oil painting is examined and assessed. To take an extreme example, Mein Kampf can be examined in this way as a symbolic and mythological text and thus any qualitative or moral issues about whether Hitler told fibs or not is avoided. The understandable moral revulsion one feels towards such a book and its hateful philosophy has to be detached from its mythological significance. Frankly, it would be almost impossible to understand the 20th century condition without reading Hitler's book and seeing the theorizing behind it at first hand, evil as that theorizing might be. The same could be said of Spengler's Decline of the West, which all Ufologists should read very carefully. Whether we like it or not, The Day After Roswell is a very important book, it is a novum organum, and I shall be posting a more detailed analysis shortly, if only to try and rescue something of Corso's damaged reputation. Colin Bennett
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 9 Heflin Photos? From: Laurel Oplatka <calabash2003@webtv.net> Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 11:35:26 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 18:40:58 -0500 Subject: Heflin Photos? Bruce Maccabee and List: When looking recently on one of Ann Druffel's websites, I came across some photos (polaroid) taken by Rex Heflin of a UFO he sighted over a dirt (tunnel?) in Tustin, CA, 1965. I looked on the Maccabee website but could not find any info on this particular photo. I would like to ask Bruce Maccabee his opinion/assessment re. these Heflin photos. Thank you, Laurel
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 9 Re: Heflin Photos? - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 00:00:08 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 19:07:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Heflin Photos? - Hall >From: Laurel Oplatka <calabash2003@webtv.net> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 11:35:26 -0800 (PST) >Subject: Heflin Photos? >Bruce Maccabee and List: >When looking recently on one of Ann Druffel's websites, I came >across some photos (polaroid) taken by Rex Heflin of a UFO he >sighted over a dirt (tunnel?) in Tustin, CA, 1965. I looked on >the Maccabee website but could not find any info on this >particular photo. >I would like to ask Bruce Maccabee his opinion/assessment re. >these Heflin photos. Laurel, You really need to read some UFO history. (See my web site for some links: http://www.hallrichard.com I supervised the investigation of the Heflin photos for the National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena, and there is a summary of the case in my 2001 book The UFO Evidence, Volume II; but unfortunately it is very expensive. Try your library. - Richard Hall
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 9 Re: Corso - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 00:07:46 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 21:06:32 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Hall >From: Colin Bennett <sharkley@panzerben.fsworld.co.uk> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 22:50:36 -0000 >Subject: Re: Corso >>From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 12:14:53 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Corso >Hello all List Savants, >>Corso supports Kaufmann. Kaufmann has been shown to be a fraud. >>What does that say about Corso? >As is usual with the style and approach of Jan Aldrich, his >analysis of Corso and his book is brutalistic Ufological Maoism. >It is contemptuous, dismissive and as an approach to a book and >a man is terribly old-fashioned. >The interrogatory technique is familiar: go to Frank Kauffman >and the like and squeeze their nuts until they confess to a >mistake, a misrepresentation, a misunderstanding, yes even a >lie. Then take this raft of deviancy and equate it to the >"reality" (a favorite word of the List, almost as if "reality" >were gainsaid, neat as a ham sandwich and just as easy to reach >for) of the man, life and his views. After reading from >Shakespeare to Sontag through Milton and via Chaucer, are we to >accept this as the measure of a human being? Do our weakest >links define us? There is blatant hypocrisy here. <snip> >Colin Bennett Colin, You are so wrong in this that it's pitiful, but our eyes cross and our minds boggle with your typical long-winded flatulence. How much more evidence is required to establish that Corso is a total liar and fraud? Jan may not be elegant in his expression, but he knows what the hell he is talking about, and so do a lot of us who have been at this for a long time. - Dick
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 10 2002 BC Cattle Mutes & UFO Sightings From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net> Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 17:42:31 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 09:04:21 -0500 Subject: 2002 BC Cattle Mutes & UFO Sightings Hi List Another short report from my files for 2002 I have not reported yet. Francois Lake, Grassy Plains (South of Burns Lake) British Columbia Date: Late Spring, 2002 Time: not given On this case I do not have a lot of information on, but I was contacted by another UFO investigator who gave me a little information on UFO sightings, and two more cattle mutes in the Francois Lake, Grassy Plains area. A farmer found two of his cows dead with the same markings of a cattle mute. The week leading up to this event with the cattle, the the farmer witnessed a number of sightings of strange lights in the night sky. Now everyone, as I mentioned above, I do not have a lot of information on this case, and due to not releasing who and where this information came from, I have decided not to follow this report up, at least for now. If my friend and investigator decides to go a head with the case then I have been invited along to check into it.
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 10 Documentary 'The Secret' From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com> Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 21:47:46 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 09:07:38 -0500 Subject: Documentary 'The Secret' I think Listers in Canada may be interested in knowing that the Canadian Discovery Channel will be broadcasting a 1 hour documentary 'The Secret' on Thursday, January 16, at 6PM, Pacific Time; 7PM Mountain Time, 8PM Central Time, 9PM Eastern, and 10PM Atlantic. I understand it will also be rebroadcast 4 hours later and the next day at 4PM Eastern. This was made with a lot of direction from Bob and Ryan Wood and Jim Marrs. I was interviewed for it as was Charlette Mann, whose Grandfather Huffman was involved in the Cape Girardeau 1941 crash retrieval. I managed to locate her and others who knew her grandfather. This is not an endorsement of the film, as I suspect it will say some of the Tim Cooper documents are genuine, though I am convinced they are not. Joe Firmage provided most of the early funding. We don't happen to get the Channel so I may not see it for a
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 10 Scottish TV Presenter Claims Close Encounter From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 03:04:19 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 09:21:26 -0500 Subject: Scottish TV Presenter Claims Close Encounter Source: Highland News - Inverness, Scotland http://www.highland-news.co.uk/news.asp?storyvar=3D5141 Stig *** 10 January 2003 TV show presenter has close encounter ** GRAMPIAN TV'S People Show presenter Chris Harvey had a close encounter of his own when he spent a night under the Wester Ross stars with UFO spotter Derek Lauder. Derek had been using his torch to signal skywards in the hope of a response, when the pair got just that. Said Chris: "The hairs were standing up on the back on my neck when something flashed back. I was really spooked. I have never seen anything like that in my life." Chris met Derek at his caravan home in the remote West Highland village of Aultbea and soon discovered his fascination with the night sky. Derek spends every clear evening looking upwards for UFOs and claims he can make contact with UFOs using his flash light. "I would love to go on one of these craft and travel to other parts and meet other people. "I believe there are people from other planets here now -- they walk among us and look the same," he says. Derek, who keeps his special signalling codes secret, used to keep records of all his sightings, but doesn't bother anymore because he says they are now a nightly occurrence. "If anyone is going to meet the extra terrestrial -- it's Derek," predicts Chris. <snip> ** First published: 09/01/2003
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 10 Re: Heflin Photos? - Maccabee From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 20:27:13 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 09:23:25 -0500 Subject: Re: Heflin Photos? - Maccabee >From: Laurel Oplatka <calabash2003@webtv.net> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 11:35:26 -0800 (PST) >Subject: Heflin Photos? >Bruce Maccabee and List: >When looking recently on one of Ann Druffel's websites, I came >across some photos (polaroid) taken by Rex Heflin of a UFO he >sighted over a dirt (tunnel?) in Tustin, CA, 1965. I looked on >the Maccabee website but could not find any info on this >particular photo. >I would like to ask Bruce Maccabee his opinion/assessment re. >these Heflin photos. Although I took part in the investigation of the photos back in the late 70's, I have only been a bystander since. Soon after the photos were publicized, according to Heflin, they were taken by some military people and never returned. Several years ago they suddenly appeared in his mailbox... he says. Recent analyses of the original photos seems to refute the only argument against them (which was raised back in the late 1960's). You can read about the case in Richard Hall's book and in the Condon report (which is now a dated analysis). Bottom line: probably real!!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 10 Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 2 - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 01:27:15 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 09:26:22 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 2 - Ledger >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 20:04:44 -0500 >Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 2 >>From: Martin Shough <mshough@parcellular.fsnet.co.uk> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 10:19:19 -0000 >>Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 2 >>>From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 18:59:21 +0000 >>>Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 2 >>>RETIRED GENERAL SAYS HE >>>ENCOUNTERED A GIGANTIC >>>UFO IN NORTHERN CHILE >>>A retired Chilean air force general said last week >>>that he and his wingman had encountered an immense UFO >>>while on a training flight over northern Chile twenty- >>>five years ago. ><snip> >>>The incident took place in 1978, Gabrieli Rojas >>>said, "'I was a captain and was flying a mission with two >>>F-5 fighters. It was noon, and I was flying with Captain >>>Danilo Catalan (his wingman--J.T.). We were both flight >>>instructors. Accompanying us was Fernando Gomez, an >>>aviation technician, and another trainee. The F-5 is >>>radar-equipped, and a line appeared from side to side--in >>>other words, a trace across the bottom of the (radar) >>>screen. A trace for a surface ship, a carrier, is >>>approximately one centimeter (0.4 inches) long, but this >>>line went from one side of the screen to the other.'"> >>>"'I assumed the radar scope had failed and told >>>Danilo Catalan, but his radar had also 'failed.' I then >>>advised the ground radar at Antofagasta, and they picked >>>up the line. We were flying from north to south in the >>>vicinity of Mejillones and saw a deformed cigar-shaped >>>object. Deformed, like a plantain banana. It was >>>swathed in smoke.'"> >>>The UFO "'was large and must have been 25 to 32 >>>kilometers (15 to 20 miles) away. It moved in the same >>>direction as us. We had no missiles, guns or anything. >>>As you can imagine, the fright was more or less >>>considerable. We could see a large thing surrounded in >>>smoke and from which a vapor issued. The whole incident >>>must have lasted about five minutes. We approached the >>>UFO but it was motionless--it merely stood parallel to >>>us. It was quite impressive because it was truly >>>something strange, and something could be seen in >>>concealment behind the smoke.'"> >>>"'The object then disappeared (west) towards Easter >>>Island at an impressive rate of speed. The sky cleared >>>and the lines on our radar vanished. However, there had >>>been an object physically flying there. It's not a yarn, >>>let me tell you. It was my only experience with UFOs.'" >>>(See OVNIvision Chile for December 26, 2002. Muchas >>>gracias a Scott Corrales y Cristian Riffo del grupo >>>OVNIvision Chile para eso informe.)> >>This has many of the hallmarks of radar/visual mirage of the >>ground over the horizon: an image appearing to pace the >>aircraft, broad abnormal radar return parallelling horizon, >>'smoky' visual appearance, disappearance when the aircraft >>turned from its N-S course to approach etc. >Interesting speculation, but I wonder if something that >appears as a mirage to the jets (how high were they) would also >affect the ground radar, assuming that the ground radar actually >did pick up a 'line' target in the same direction as the did the >aircraft. >Unfortunately there is really not enough info here to make a >good decision as to whether or not the sighting could be a >result of natural causes. Had all the details been recorded at >the time (sightings directions, tracks of the aircraft, exact >direction of the "object" from the aircraft, exact direction of >the supposed coincident target from the ground, grand radar >distance, etc.) a decision probably could have been made. If it isn't some airborn object then from my experience, this is an electronic signature of some sort. But I'm having a problem getting my head around a natural or man made continuous high energy EMP at the same operational frequency as the radar causing this aberration. The mirage explanation from two different at angles so large as that it appears on the two aircraft radar and ground based radar at the same time seems way out of whack to me. Over the last two years I've been looking at the incident reports for aircraft in Canadian airspace. They range from bird strikes to fire onboard to cracked windshields to passengers with heart attacks. They also, very frequently report TCAS [Traffic Alert & Collision Avoidance System] alerts with no apparent reason for the TCAS. They are set to sound warnings at about 5 miles and are energized [like transponders] once the aircraft is well away from an airport for obvious reasons. Since TCAS keys on radar microwaves through the aircraft's Transponder/TCAS system I've wondered if there might be some energy emissions from UFOs that triggers these. There are also troubles in western Canada and the US apparently with GPW [Ground Proximity Warnings] that have gone unresolved for some time. They are going off when the aircraft is nowhere near terrain or low enough to trigger the GPW. I ran this suspicion by Dick Haines last year and he thought perhaps there was a need to explore this possibility further. Certainly there has been a curious relationship between radar and UFOs over the years. Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 10 Re: For Your Collection - Deschamps From: Michel M. Deschamps <ufoman@ican.net> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 00:28:45 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 09:28:57 -0500 Subject: Re: For Your Collection - Deschamps >From: Loren Coleman <lcolema1@maine.rr.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 09:09:13 -0500 >Subject: For Your Collection >FYI - I am not financially associated with selling these but >thought you'd like to see these..... >http://www.paranormalphernalia.com/item.asp?nProductID=2382 >FIGURINES - COLLECTOR'S SET OF ALIENS - $30.95 >Description: Four different hand-painted species are modeled in >size to each other (3.5"- 5" tall), based on documented >encounters. Each comes complete with collectible trading card. Worth getting as visual aids for lectures I have a set myself...purchased from a now-defunct museum in Orlando, Florida. Cordially, Michel M. Deschamps
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 10 Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? - From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 23:10:35 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 09:31:17 -0500 Subject: Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? - >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 12:59:08 -0500 >Subject: Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? >>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>To: <- UFO UpDates Subscribers -> >>Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 09:31:10 -0500 >>Subject: UFO UpDate: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? >>Source: The Seattle Times >>http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/134611406_astro08m0.html ><article snipped> >This is a similar point to one made by Dr. Michio Kaku at a >recent symposium in Washington DC and repeated during an online >chat with Chris Wallace: >http://www.mkaku.org/abc.html >He speculates that while we are a "Type 0" civilization, it >would take a "Type 3" civilization to travel between the stars. >Such an advanced civilization would have little reason to take >notice of ants on their freeway through the universe. >Steve Hello Steve, all: I have heard this sort of thing before, that a sufficiently advanced society would have no interest in Earthly doings and inhabitants. I don't buy into it at all. If we don't study ants crawling across a freeway, its because they are more safely studied (and probably more numerous) on the roadside. Any race that was curious enough to send craft here, automated or otherwise, is more than curious enough to study anything and everything here, dead and alive. A race with no such curiosity would not bother to visit or send probes. I hesitate to call such dismal entities "intelligent". There must be thousands of Ph.Ds studying the tiniest microbes, now even decoding their DNA, one nucleotide at a time. Moss, earthworms, insects and spiders... you name it... somebody is studying virtually every creature we can name. Then come the paleontologists with their fossils. Then come the geologists who don't even care if this or that rock was _ever_ part of a living thing. How about historians? Who would not like to take a good look at a (somewhat) race 10,000... 25,000 years behind ours? What better way to compare and contrast histories, than to watch ours in realtime? I can think of every reason that some other race, assuming it can get some craft here, would study this planet at great depth and detail, over long periods of time. I cannot think of a single reason, not even snobbery which is retrograde rather than "advanced" if you think about it, that would persuade them to pass right on by. Nobody expects space aliens to invite us into their most private clubs and domains. We remain a warlike, short lived, rather idiotic human race after all. Still, I would expect a good hard study of this planet and everything on it. Any number of UFO sightings, landings especially, seem to indicate a high degree of interest in the most simple and diverse things... plus life forms at all levels. I must have over 300 cases listed where UFOs or their occupants seemed to be taking samples of this and that; water, dirt, rocks, fertilizer, plants, animals, stockings, fruits, vegetables, tools, implements, coins... even a dishpan if I have that right. Earth Science might take on a new meaning in this context. Best wishes - Larry Hatch
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 10 Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? - From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 09:56:19 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 15:42:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? - >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 23:10:35 -0800 >Subject: Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? >>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 12:59:08 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? >>>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>To: <- UFO UpDates Subscribers -> >>>Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 09:31:10 -0500 >>>Subject: UFO UpDate: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? >>>Source: The Seattle Times >>http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/134611406_astro08m0.html >><article snipped> >>This is a similar point to one made by Dr. Michio Kaku at a >>recent symposium in Washington DC and repeated during an online >>chat with Chris Wallace: >>http://www.mkaku.org/abc.html >>He speculates that while we are a "Type 0" civilization, it >>would take a "Type 3" civilization to travel between the stars. >>Such an advanced civilization would have little reason to take >>notice of ants on their freeway through the universe. >>Steve >Hello Steve, all: >I have heard this sort of thing before, that a sufficiently >advanced society would have no interest in Earthly doings and >inhabitants. >I don't buy into it at all. >If we don't study ants crawling across a freeway, its because >they are more safely studied (and probably more numerous) on the >roadside. >Any race that was curious enough to send craft here, automated >or otherwise, is more than curious enough to study anything and >everything here, dead and alive. >A race with no such curiosity would not bother to visit or send >probes. I hesitate to call such dismal entities "intelligent". Perhaps. But "curiousity" and "visiting" seem to be very human traits that may not relate to an alien race. I presupposes that there is no other reason from going from there to here (or at least passing through). I'm not sure that this relates to the reports that you've mentioned here, but I'm not sure that it's rational to project any "human" purposes to that which, by definition, is alien. This is, of course, more of a philosophical discussion. Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 10 Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? - From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 11:31:48 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 15:44:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? - >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 23:10:35 -0800 >Subject: Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? >>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 12:59:08 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? >>>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>To: <- UFO UpDates Subscribers -> >>>Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 09:31:10 -0500 >>>Subject: UFO UpDate: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? >>>Source: The Seattle Times >>>http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/134611406_astro08m0.html >><article snipped> >>This is a similar point to one made by Dr. Michio Kaku at a >>recent symposium in Washington DC and repeated during an online >>chat with Chris Wallace: >>http://www.mkaku.org/abc.html >>He speculates that while we are a "Type 0" civilization, it >>would take a "Type 3" civilization to travel between the stars. >>Such an advanced civilization would have little reason to take >>notice of ants on their freeway through the universe. >>Steve >Hello Steve, all: >I have heard this sort of thing before, that a sufficiently >advanced society would have no interest in Earthly doings and >inhabitants. >I don't buy into it at all. >If we don't study ants crawling across a freeway, its because >they are more safely studied (and probably more numerous) on the >roadside. >Any race that was curious enough to send craft here, automated >or otherwise, is more than curious enough to study anything and >everything here, dead and alive. >A race with no such curiosity would not bother to visit or send >probes. I hesitate to call such dismal entities "intelligent". >There must be thousands of Ph.Ds studying the tiniest microbes, >now even decoding their DNA, one nucleotide at a time. Moss, >earthworms, insects and spiders... you name it... somebody is >studying virtually every creature we can name. >Then come the paleontologists with their fossils. Then come the >geologists who don't even care if this or that rock was _ever_ >part of a living thing. >How about historians? Who would not like to take a good look at >a (somewhat) race 10,000... 25,000 years behind ours? What >better way to compare and contrast histories, than to watch ours >in realtime? >I can think of every reason that some other race, assuming it >can get some craft here, would study this planet at great depth >and detail, over long periods of time. >I cannot think of a single reason, not even snobbery which is >retrograde rather than "advanced" if you think about it, that >would persuade them to pass right on by. >Nobody expects space aliens to invite us into their most private >clubs and domains. We remain a warlike, short lived, rather >idiotic human race after all. >Still, I would expect a good hard study of this planet and >everything on it. Any number of UFO sightings, landings >especially, seem to indicate a high degree of interest in the >most simple and diverse things... plus life forms at all levels. Hi Larry, You wrote: >I must have over 300 cases listed where UFOs or their occupants >seemed to be taking samples of this and that; water, dirt, >rocks, fertilizer, plants, animals, stockings, fruits, >vegetables, tools, implements, coins... even a dishpan if I have >that right. Earth Science might take on a new meaning in this >context. ... and people! UFOs and abductions _explain_ each other! Regards, John Velez, Human Sample Sign the International Petition to the United Nations for disclosure of information pertaining to UFOs. http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 10 Secrecy News -- 01/10/03 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 12:22:56 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 16:03:00 -0500 Subject: Secrecy News -- 01/10/03 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2003, Issue No. 3 January 10, 2003 **NEEDED: A SECURITY POLICY LABORATORY **RULING ON AMERICAN "ENEMY COMBATANTS" **NEW INTEL OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE ASSIGNMENTS **SECRECY IN THE NEWS NEEDED: A SECURITY POLICY LABORATORY Changes in security policy are far more difficult to achieve than they ought to be. Cut classification by 90%? Streamline the security clearance process? Eliminate polygraph testing? Good luck. The past decade has seen dozens or hundreds of specific, well-argued proposals for security policy reform that have gone nowhere. The problem is that every effort to promote systemic reform elicits systemic opposition. It appears that there are too many people and too much money invested in the status quo to allow comprehensive policy changes of any significance. One way to overcome this seemingly insurmountable hurdle would be to establish a security policy "enterprise zone," a domain within or alongside the national security bureaucracy in which innovative security policies could be tried out and validated. This kind of bounded "laboratory" environment would not immediately threaten the prejudices or prerogatives of the security bureaucrats, and because of its limited reach, the consequences of a failed experiment should be tolerable. In fact, even failure could be considered a success, in the sense that it would provide information that would be useful in refining future experiments. Those security policy pilot projects that were successful -- in terms of reduced costs, increased productivity, etc. -- would invite replication in other parts of the national security bureaucracy. At a minimum, those at the CIA, the Pentagon, and elsewhere who cling to industrial age security policies would be compelled to justify their resistance to the demonstrably superior alternative. In one very modest example of such an experimental approach to security policy, Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) requested that the Federal Building in San Francisco accept identification cards issued by the Mexican consulate as proper identification for visitors seeking to conduct business at the building. This practice has now been adopted on a four month trial basis, and only at this facility. See Rep. Pelosi's "Statement on Matricula Consular Identification Card," January 3: http://www.house.gov/pelosi/matricula.html Remarkably, even this modest step has drawn opposition from those concerned that it would serve illegal aliens and legitimize their status. Rep. Tom Tancredo (R-CO) called Rep. Pelosi a "co- conspirator" who "encourages people to violate the laws of this nation," according to the Washington Times (which erroneously identified Mr. Tancredo as a Democrat). See "Federal Facility Accepts Mexican ID at Pelosi's Request" by Stephan Dinan, Washington Times, January 10: http://www.washtimes.com/national/20030110-449218.htm Despite the nasty, reflexive criticism, the proposal is in place, thanks to Rep. Pelosi, and it will succeed or fail with interesting consequences. There are many similar experiments waiting to be tried. RULING ON AMERICAN "ENEMY COMBATANTS" The post-9/11 legal landscape continues to shift dramatically with a new federal appeals court ruling that an American citizen who is designated an "enemy combatant" may be detained indefinitely without access to an attorney. "The government has asserted nothing less than the ability to designate certain individuals -- at the whim of the president -- as beyond the shelter of the Bill of Rights," according to a Washington Post editorial today critical of the decision: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A35820- 2003Jan9.html The ruling itself, in the case of Yaser Esam Hamdi, may be found here: http://pacer.ca4.uscourts.gov/opinion.pdf/027338.P.pdf The government wasted no time in applying the new ruling to another case, arguing that suspected "enemy combatant" Jose Padilla is also not entitled to an attorney even though Padilla, unlike Hamdi, was apprehended in the United States, not on the battlefield. See "U.S. Asks Judge to Deny Terror Suspect Access to Lawyer, Saying It Could Harm Interrogation" by Benjamin Weiser, New York Times, January 10: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/10/national/10DETA.html NEW INTEL OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE ASSIGNMENTS Senator Pat Roberts (R-KS) was officially named the new chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence in the 108th Congress. "I believe strongly that one can be an advocate for the men and women of our intelligence agencies while at the same time ensuring that we safeguard the American people and make sure that they are getting their money's worth," Sen. Roberts said in a January 7 press release: http://www.senate.gov/~roberts/01-07a-2003.htm However, Sen. Roberts does not believe the American people should be permitted to know how much of their money they are getting their money's worth for. He voted against declassifying the intelligence budget total in 1997, shortly before the 1997 budget figure was declassified anyway as the result of Freedom of Information Act litigation. Sen. John D. Rockefeller IV (D-WVa) will be the Vice Chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee. On the House side, Rep. Porter Goss (R-FL) was reappointed to the Chairmanship. "I postponed my retirement plans for one final term in Congress so I could continue to spearhead the responsibilities charged to the Intelligence Committee," he said in a January 9 press release: http://portergoss.house.gov/news.asp?FormMode=Detail&ID=79 Rep. Jane Harman (D-CA) will be the new Ranking Minority member. She outlined her Committee agenda in a January 9 press release here: http://www.house.gov/harman/press/releases/010903PR_Intel_Leader ship.htm l SECRECY IN THE NEWS A day long conference on scientific openness and national security was held in Washington yesterday, sponsored by the National Academy of Sciences and the Center for Strategic and International Studies. See "Scientists Discuss Balance of Research and Security" by Diana Jean Schemo, New York Times, January 10: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/10/science/10SECR.html Old fashioned corruption and venality, rather than national security defects, are the source of the latest upheaval at the Los Alamos National Laboratory. See "UC replaces labs vice president under threat of losing contract" by Andrea Widener, San Jose Mercury News, January 9: http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/4908628.htm _______________________________________________ Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org with "subscribe" in the body of the message. OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html _______________________ Steven Aftergood Project on Government Secrecy Federation of American Scientists web: www.fas.org/sgp/index.html email: saftergood@fas.org voice: (202) 454-4691
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 10 Re: Corso - Gehrman From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 09:52:13 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 16:06:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Gehrman >From: Colin Bennett <sharkley@panzerben.fsworld.co.uk> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 22:50:36 -0000 >Subject: Re: Corso >>From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 12:14:53 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Corso >Thus you cannot define a human being in terms of "solid" fact >versus "vaporous" fiction. Do we not learn anything from >Literature, Art, or History? These things teach us surely that >this crude concept called reality is forever a set of changing >approximations, and there are all kinds of shades of ever- >changing shades of gray in between the two theoretical >polarities. In my study of Adamski, Looking for Orthon, I >demonstrated that both the measure of the day and the man never >fits completely. Forty years later, we still cannot fit the >Oswald time scheme together, as I discussed in Politics of the >Imagination. As quantum theory indicates, Nature does not like >being observed too closely. Excellent point! >>I will say that Corso always comes back again and again each >>time as I mentioned before set back to zero again just like some >>video game. This thing runs in cycles over and over again the >>evidence that Corso is a liar comes out, everything goes away >>for some months, then we are told that there is no such evidence >>and everything starts up again from zero as if nothing was ever >>posted on this before. >I sympathise with Jan Aldrich because he is desperately trying >to close a famous case. But his bad-tempered growling shows >frustration at not being able to do so. The great Holmes himself >could have told him that a case is never closed, if only because >Nature doesn't work with watertight compartments. This what we >call reality won't ever behave itself, lie down and die. The >Trickster will escape to create new seasons of games, such as >MJ12, or Y2K. Such is the structure of time. The Trickster has >to escape. Of course Jan would like this "reality" to be a >closed circuit, and the Trickster either dead, passive or >supine, ready to be carved up into academic consumer- blocks and >deep frozen forever. >But reality does not consist of facts, documents and >investigations, because "reality" is a dialogue with a live >animal. Jan's problem is that reality can answer back, won't >behave itself, and on many occasions its behavior is quite >impossible, if not reprehensible. He hates Corso because Corso >dead or alive wiggles his nose at all of us behind our backs. >The truth about Corso is measured by our comic outrage. Like >Adamski, even in death he will not behave like a corpse. >We see the same struggle for factual reality within the >Aldrich/Friedman dialogues as with the Aldrich/Gehrman dialogues >and also the Randle/Friedman dialogues. They want certainty, but >they do not appear to be aware of or have read the existential >literature of the past 200 years, which is about the same quest. Uncertainty is acceptable. *The Day After Roswell* and the myth it generates needs some serious discussion and contemplation. That's impossible on this list where a majority of well known and respected UFO researchers imply that Corso was a liar and the book is nothing but a compilation of historical inaccuracies, lies and more lies. How many folks have put off buying a copy because they think that somehow the questions have all been answered and the issues all resolved. Its a crock! >Lamb, De Quncey, Coleridge, were all asking the same questions >about testing experience to a degree of accuracy when it doesn't >consists of monads of accuracy in the first place. I am going to >post a long and detailed separate postmodern treatment of these >dialogues. They are very important texts of our time. It will >oppose those argue and illustrate as if see experience and >history were legal cases to be "solved" in the Agatha Christy >sense. I can't wait >All parties involved in these dialogues seem to be possessed of >the old deterministic assumptions that the deeper you go in an >investigation, then the more accurate the conclusion becomes. >That is a nice thing to tell sixth form science students, but >scientific time has moved on. Stan should know of all people >that Nature does not deal in accuracies. It deals in averages, >probabilities, and uncertainty. At a certain level of decimal >points as it were, all probing scalpel blades will be blunted by >mounting disorder, the situation becoming so unstable at the >accuracy level tried for that a single moment of whimsical >absent-mindedness in office procedure can become the butterfly's >wing that changes the weather over central America. This is >Chaos theory, but I don't hear of such things in this list >because of the inward-looking monastic scholasticism that is >present. Arguments, Ufological or otherwise, cannot be continued >in such isolation. They must be seen against a developing >context of history and culture Well written and I agree >Since this List on many occasions appears to be rather anti- >intellectual, and somewhat old-fashioned, I know that all I am >going to get in response here is either a contemptuous silence, >or a stream of abuse. What I am trying to do is open out the >Ufological discussion, lift it up from its terribly depressing >case-history monastic scholasticism and see itself in cultural >context. Hip, hip hooray! >But back to Jan. He should be very careful. This marvelously >grumpy and grim-faced holier-than-thou act sets him up for >beautiful satire. Like the characters in the outside world, >Ufology should prepare itself for satire, that is if it big >enough and strong enough. The gurus won't like being satirized >of course, if only because shielded from the glare of publicity >they grow like untroubled wild flowers in the shade, and they >take themselves far too seriously. This why the much tougher >outer world regards the insular pen-toed preciousness of Ufology >as the funniest thing since the Alabama Hayseeds. >The main older >cultures got used to being satirically wasted long ago, and they >live with it. Look at your self in the mirror and laugh Jan, you >are big enough to do that. The Brentford Polonius recently did a >beautiful job satirizing yours truly, and I had to take it like >a man, and I hope you are big enough to do that and don't shrink >back into your hole in the river bank snarling and snapping like >an old gopher with a bad leg. >Now, as Ed Gehrman suggests, we have an electro-mechanical means >of assessing truth? This is putting a lot of faith into the >polygraph and Voice Stress Analyser, both of which (as Bruce >Maccabee will confirm) fundamentally a digitized and souped-up >versions (in a smart case) of 1880s high-impedance voltmeters. >Why not throw in the Brighton ferry as a bargain? It would be >just as useful as regards the argued as the assumption that the >electrical measure of skin resistance or voice stress varies >directly as our emotional state. Bringing robots into semi- >metaphysical issues is of course provides a rich and rare comedy >for Fortean connoisseurs. It is an action straight out of >Illuminatus or The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. If person's work and information is dismissed because he is accused of being a liar, the metaphysical issues can be put on the back burner and practical means can be used to provide credibility. A polygraph or VSA can be used to establish a person's veracity. When a person tells a fantastic story to an investigator and the truthfulness of the story is important to the investigation, then I see nothing wrong with asking for a polygraph or VSA. A friend of mine was accused of being a government agent and bomber; he thought it would blow over but it really began to interfere with his work. He took a polygraph and cleared his name. >Perhaps we should have measured Kaufman's blood-sugar, or >Corso's faeces? Corso isn't around to defend himself and his story is important so if B-FA could work, I'm all for it. >If you don't mind me saying so folks, this is hilarious, >somewhat behaviourist, and not a little fascist if it were not >so funny. >Often in this List is the recommendation that a >Ufological institution be formed to carry out peer-reviews of >experiences, sightings, books and claims. Should deviants be >dealt like prisoners and patients? Has not Jan read any book >about such official psycho-medical attitudes over the past fifty >years? As Thomas Szaz pointed out, we tend to make social and >intellectual non-conformists into sick people, witness Tim >Leary, and cloudbuster Reich. Now you've really gone and done it! How could you? You mentioned Reich and Richard Hall in the same post. That's not allowed. Reich is a liar too. And a very bad person, by Richard's reckoning. >Corso and Kauffman bless them were >both heading for that treatment before they died, mishandled by >pot-brained input=output Pavlovian rationalists. Perhaps we >should apply Skinner Boxes, ECT, pre-frontal lobotomy to >abductees and men who claim to have met Venusians until we get >the answers we like, that is answers we can manage most easily, >and live with most comfortably. Big Brother sign: ONLY THE >HEALTHY ARE REAL. Finally, what we test is our own deep-rooted >fear that a truly fantastic reality may well be in place, and an >even more fantastic reality in place on top of that. When we >imagine, we create a form of life. Yes I understand what you're saying. We'll just have to continue this discussion >Jan, I will give both yourself and Ed Gehrman an escape route, >though I don't expect any thanks for it. Colin, Thank you and post modernism. I knew there must be some way out of here! >Postmodern thinking has >provided a means by which books such as that by Corso can be >evaluated without getting bogged down in whether the author told >fibs or not. We can regard The Day After Roswell not as a tale >told by an idiot full of sound and fury signifying nothing, but >as a modern mythological text. Mythology is a word hated by Dick >Hall, but what is mythology? Usually used in the common sense as >meaning a lie, mythology is not a lie but the purest DNA of >culture and time. A mythological text in this sense is a text >that will open like a book to reveal deep structure. In the >postmodern sense, anything and everthing is a "text" that can be >read in this way. <snip> The above is well written and thoughtful; Col Corso's reputation needs all the help it can get even if it's "only a lantern on the stern". Ed
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 10 Re: Corso - Hall From: Colin Bennett <sharkley@panzerben.fsworld.co.uk> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 20:38:05 -0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 16:30:07 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Hall >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 00:07:46 +0000 >Subject: Re: Corso >>From: Colin Bennett <sharkley@panzerben.fsworld.co.uk> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 22:50:36 -0000 >>Subject: Re: Corso >>>From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 12:14:53 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: Corso >>Hello all List Savants, >>>Corso supports Kaufmann. Kaufmann has been shown to be a fraud. >>>What does that say about Corso? >>As is usual with the style and approach of Jan Aldrich, his >>analysis of Corso and his book is brutalistic Ufological Maoism. >>It is contemptuous, dismissive and as an approach to a book and >>a man is terribly old-fashioned. >>The interrogatory technique is familiar: go to Frank Kauffman >>and the like and squeeze their nuts until they confess to a >>mistake, a misrepresentation, a misunderstanding, yes even a >>lie. Then take this raft of deviancy and equate it to the >>"reality" (a favorite word of the List, almost as if "reality" >>were gainsaid, neat as a ham sandwich and just as easy to reach >>for) of the man, life and his views. After reading from >>Shakespeare to Sontag through Milton and via Chaucer, are we to >>accept this as the measure of a human being? Do our weakest >>links define us? There is blatant hypocrisy here. ><snip> >Colin, >You are so wrong in this that it's pitiful, but our eyes cross >and our minds boggle with your typical long-winded flatulence. >How much more evidence is required to establish that Corso is a >total liar and fraud? >Jan may not be elegant in his expression, but he knows what the >hell he is talking about, and so do a lot of us who have been at >this for a long time. Hi Richard, Thanks for your mail. A point first of all before I reply - this is a private mail is it? Because it looks a bit confusing, like mail that has not been posted on the List, yet bear the List name. I make this point because it was my public reply to Aldrich's private mail (I didn't think he would mind but he went off at the deep end) that caused the original outburst. I cannot see this post on the List proper, yet it bears a rather confusing List nomenclature (see above) and so - do you wish me to reply to you privately, as I do not want to make the same mistake again? I think it might be better in the open, but as you wish. Best wishes, Colin
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 10 Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? - From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 14:17:47 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 16:33:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? - >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? >Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 09:56:19 -0500 >>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 23:10:35 -0800 >>Subject: Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? >>>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 12:59:08 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? >>>>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>>To: <- UFO UpDates Subscribers -> >>>>Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 09:31:10 -0500 >>>>Subject: UFO UpDate: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? >>>>Source: The Seattle Times >>>http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/134611406_astro08m0.html >>><article snipped> >>>This is a similar point to one made by Dr. Michio Kaku at a >>>recent symposium in Washington DC and repeated during an online >>>chat with Chris Wallace: >>>http://www.mkaku.org/abc.html >>>He speculates that while we are a "Type 0" civilization, it >>>would take a "Type 3" civilization to travel between the stars. >>>Such an advanced civilization would have little reason to take >>>notice of ants on their freeway through the universe. >>Hello Steve, all: >>I have heard this sort of thing before, that a sufficiently >>advanced society would have no interest in Earthly doings and >>inhabitants. >>I don't buy into it at all. >>If we don't study ants crawling across a freeway, its because >>they are more safely studied (and probably more numerous) on the >>roadside. >>Any race that was curious enough to send craft here, automated >>or otherwise, is more than curious enough to study anything and >>everything here, dead and alive. >>A race with no such curiosity would not bother to visit or send >>probes. I hesitate to call such dismal entities "intelligent". >Perhaps. But "curiousity" and "visiting" seem to be very human >traits that may not relate to an alien race. I presupposes that >there is no other reason from going from there to here (or at >least passing through). I'm not sure that this relates to the >reports that you've mentioned here, but I'm not sure that it's >rational to project any "human" purposes to that which, by >definition, is alien. >This is, of course, more of a philosophical discussion. I submit that it would be impossible for an alien race to become "advanced" without some measure of curiosity. ==JJS==
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 10 Re: Corso - Randle From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 16:27:57 EST Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 16:36:16 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Randle >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 09:52:13 -0800 >Subject: Re: Corso >>From: Colin Bennett <sharkley@panzerben.fsworld.co.uk> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 22:50:36 -0000 >>Subject: Re: Corso >>>From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 12:14:53 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: Corso <snip> >Uncertainty is acceptable. *The Day After Roswell* and the myth >it generates needs some serious discussion and contemplation. >That's impossible on this list where a majority of well known >and respected UFO researchers imply that Corso was a liar and >the book is nothing but a compilation of historical >inaccuracies, lies and more lies. How many folks have put off >buying a copy because they think that somehow the questions have >all been answered and the issues all resolved. Its a crock! Ed, List, All - I would like to point out that I have never implied that Lieutenant Colonel Philip Corso is a liar. I have stated it flat out, from lying about his rank, to lying about how he saw the alien bodies, to the misrepresentations of his positions in the Army. I have even seen a piece of video tape where Corso claims to have been the commander at White Sands Missile Range. So, Ed, in the future please do not say I have implied that Corso is a liar. Thank you. KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 10 Re: Corso - Jones From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 22:09:50 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 19:05:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Jones >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 16:27:57 EST >Subject: Re: Corso >>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 09:52:13 -0800 >>Subject: Re: Corso >>Uncertainty is acceptable. *The Day After Roswell* and the myth >>it generates needs some serious discussion and contemplation. >>That's impossible on this list where a majority of well known >>and respected UFO researchers imply that Corso was a liar and >>the book is nothing but a compilation of historical >>inaccuracies, lies and more lies. How many folks have put off >>buying a copy because they think that somehow the questions have >>all been answered and the issues all resolved. Its a crock! >Ed, List, All - >I would like to point out that I have never implied that >Lieutenant Colonel Philip Corso is a liar. I have stated it flat >out, from lying about his rank, to lying about how he saw the >alien bodies, to the misrepresentations of his positions in the >Army. I have even seen a piece of video tape where Corso claims >to have been the commander at White Sands Missile Range. >So, Ed, in the future please do not say I have implied that >Corso is a liar. Thank you. >KRandle And you don't get straighter than that! Regards Sean -- In an infinite universe, infinitely anything is possible. Sean Jones http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 10 'Politics of the Imagination' by Colin Bennet From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 14:33:17 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 19:16:13 -0500 Subject: 'Politics of the Imagination' by Colin Bennet Politics Of The Imagination by Colin Bennett Reviewed by Mac Tonnies In a world of books about anomalies, very seldom does one come across a title that is, itself, an anomaly in its aptitude and outspokenness. Colin Bennett's 'Politics of the Imagination', a heady examination of the life, work, and ideas of paranormal heavyweight Charles Fort, is a rich and singular book in which Bennett's postmodern sensibilities are brought to bear on one of the 20th century's most radical thinkers. Fort, an intellectual outcast who viewed science as so much socio-mythological advertising, has become synonymous with the unexplained. Bennet argues that "Fortean" phenomena such as UFOs, inexplicable artifacts, and falls of live fish reveal cracks in the buttresses of Big Science's illusory (and ever- fashionable) rationalism. Bennett, like Fort, views reality itself as an anomaly to be held in constant question; 'explanations', if available at all, are only a superficial means of understanding. Bennett grabs hold of the enigma that is Fort's iconoclasm and doesn't let go. Summoning a mass of scientific and literary esoterica, he writes with impeccable wit, pursuing his quarry with impressive dexterity. 'Politics of the Imagination' is a high-calorie intellectual banquet of a book: challenging, learned, and incredibly fun. As long as Bennett is writing, Western empiricism can run, but it can't hide. With a foreword by John Keel, author of "The Mothman Prophecies." for more UFO/paranormal reviews: http://www.mactonnies.com/ufobooks.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 10 Any Thoughts....? From: Keith Chester <projectbluebook@erols.com> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 17:53:54 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 19:28:22 -0500 Subject: Any Thoughts....? Hello List, On August 28th, 1945 the late Mr. Leonard Stringfield had a Foo- Fighter sighting. As some of you are already aware he was an intelligence officer for the 5th Air Force. His sighting took place while in the area of the island Iwo Shima - not Iwo Jima- while heading toward mainland Japan. In fact he was one of the first intelligence officers to land on Japanese soil after the atomic bomb was dropped. It's my understanding that by August 28th, 1945 the skies over Japan and surrounding areas were in complete allied control. Mr.Stringfield's sighting was a day time event and it instigated his research endeavors for the remainder of his life. Talking with him and hearing his account was always interesting and fascinating. What are some of the possibilities of his sighting? Were the three circular and luminous object, approximately fifteen feet in diameter, flying in a fairly tight formation either Japanese suicide rockets or remote controlled aircraft/ missiles? Did the aircraft that Mr. Stringfield was in encounter some type of engine trouble and loose altitude due to a powerful atmospheric condition or was it just a coincidence? The side of his plane that the objects were seen had been covered with oil from the engine. Were these objects new technology that was given to Japan by Germany and some last bastion of Japanese die-hards tried using one more time? Were these objects under intelligent control and possibly not of this Earth as some feel is the case? Mr. Stringfield and I talked many times and he was a mentor of sort with some research I was doing in the early 1990's. In fact the book I am writing will be dedicated to him. Mr. Stringfield was of sound character and it was of opinion that these objects represented something totally unknown and advanced technologically for that time. I have my opinions and am just curious as to yours..... Any thoughts? Keith Chester
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 10 Re: Corso - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 23:04:54 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 19:36:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Hall >From: Colin Bennett <sharkley@panzerben.fsworld.co.uk> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 20:38:05 -0000 >Subject: Re: Corso - Hall >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 00:07:46 +0000 >>Subject: Re: Corso >>>From: Colin Bennett <sharkley@panzerben.fsworld.co.uk> >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 22:50:36 -0000 >>>Subject: Re: Corso >>>>From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net> >>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>>Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 12:14:53 -0500 >>>>Subject: Re: Corso >>>Hello all List Savants, >>>>Corso supports Kaufmann. Kaufmann has been shown to be a fraud. >>>>What does that say about Corso? >>>As is usual with the style and approach of Jan Aldrich, his >>>analysis of Corso and his book is brutalistic Ufological Maoism. >>>It is contemptuous, dismissive and as an approach to a book and >>>a man is terribly old-fashioned. >>>The interrogatory technique is familiar: go to Frank Kauffman >>>and the like and squeeze their nuts until they confess to a >>>mistake, a misrepresentation, a misunderstanding, yes even a >>>lie. Then take this raft of deviancy and equate it to the >>>"reality" (a favorite word of the List, almost as if "reality" >>>were gainsaid, neat as a ham sandwich and just as easy to reach >>>for) of the man, life and his views. After reading from >>>Shakespeare to Sontag through Milton and via Chaucer, are we to >>>accept this as the measure of a human being? Do our weakest >>>links define us? There is blatant hypocrisy here. >><snip> >>Colin, >>You are so wrong in this that it's pitiful, but our eyes cross >>and our minds boggle with your typical long-winded flatulence. >>How much more evidence is required to establish that Corso is a >>total liar and fraud? >>Jan may not be elegant in his expression, but he knows what the >>hell he is talking about, and so do a lot of us who have been at >>this for a long time. >Hi Richard, >Thanks for your mail. A point first of all before I reply - this >is a private mail is it? Because it looks a bit confusing, like >mail that has not been posted on the List, yet bear the List >name. I make this point because it was my public reply to >Aldrich's private mail (I didn't think he would mind but he >went off at the deep end) that caused the original outburst. I >cannot see this post on the List proper, yet it bears a rather >confusing List nomenclature (see above) and so - do you wish me >to reply to you privately, as I do not want to make the same >mistake again? I think it might be better in the open, but as >you wish. >Best wishes, >Colin Colin, As far as I know, this is all on the UFO UpDates List. Let's go open and public. Which gives me an opportunity, putting on my philosopher's hat, to raise a few (epistemological) issues. Without bothering to assess whether you are, in fact, consistent in your arguments suggesting that there is no objective truth, and that anyone who suggests that there is should not be taken seriously, I am assuming that you really mean it. So, then what should we "believe" or take seriously? If you say, "nothing," then you are being consistent. Then, when Ed Gehrman (or anyone else) says that we should believe Corso, what is that based on? You denigrate those of us who base our arguments on facts, evidence, logic, and scientific method. Then what else is there? Shall we believe whatever we prefer? How, under your [non]system shall we evaluate anything about UFOs? Shall we simply say, well, I like the sound of that idea and it seems agreeable to me? As I have observed many times before in the arguments of those who reject scientific method, what is your alternative? If you argue that there is nothing even resembling an approximation to truth that can be established in that way, then you basically are a nihilist and there is no reason whatsoever to take anything you say seriously. Why should we? What is it based on? Given an unknowable universe, why should we even try to understand it by asking critical questions, trying to establish facts, and applying logic and reason to them? - Dick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 10 Re: Corso - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 23:13:17 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 19:39:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Hall >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 16:27:57 EST >Subject: Re: Corso >>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 09:52:13 -0800 >>Subject: Re: Corso >>>From: Colin Bennett <sharkley@panzerben.fsworld.co.uk> >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 22:50:36 -0000 >>>Subject: Re: Corso >>>>From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net> >>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>>Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 12:14:53 -0500 >>>>Subject: Re: Corso >>Uncertainty is acceptable. *The Day After Roswell* and the myth >>it generates needs some serious discussion and contemplation. >>That's impossible on this list where a majority of well known >>and respected UFO researchers imply that Corso was a liar and >>the book is nothing but a compilation of historical >>inaccuracies, lies and more lies. How many folks have put off >>buying a copy because they think that somehow the questions have >>all been answered and the issues all resolved. Its a crock! >Ed, List, All - >I would like to point out that I have never implied that >Lieutenant Colonel Philip Corso is a liar. I have stated it flat >out, from lying about his rank, to lying about how he saw the >alien bodies, to the misrepresentations of his positions in the >Army. I have even seen a piece of video tape where Corso claims >to have been the commander at White Sands Missile Range. >So, Ed, in the future please do not say I have implied that >Corso is a liar. Thank you. >KRandle Right on, Kevin! It is a total puzzlement to me how people who insist on believing what they want to believe can so casually disregard established facts, and reject evidence and logic as if any other interpretation were equally valid. Talk about chaos theory! But since there are no standards (by their dim lights) for evaluating anything, they can go on forever propagating this nonsense. - Dick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 10 Citizen Hearing Press Release - 01-13-02 From: Stephen Bassett <CitizenHearing@aol.com> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 18:21:21 EST Fwd Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 19:45:03 -0500 Subject: Citizen Hearing Press Release - 01-13-02 Citizen Hearing "If the Congress will not do its job, the public will." Press Release January 13, 2003 Washington, DC - A simulated congressional hearing is a well established technique used by public policy organizations. Today an initiative, the Citizen Hearing, has been launched to apply this concept on a grand scale to the growing awareness of extraterrestrial phenomena and the mounting distrust of government statements of fact on the issue. When sufficient funds are raised, this week-long event will be held during the summer of 2003 in Washington, DC under conditions which resemble a formal congressional hearing as closely as possible. Considerable effort will be made to ensure gavel-to-gavel coverage by public and commercial news media. Stephen Bassett, founder of the Paradigm Research Group and X- PPAC, directs the project which will present the testimony of 30 witnesses to at least five former members of the Congress over a period of five days. "This will be the primary focus of PRG and X-PPAC during the first half of 2003," said Bassett, who added, "A citizen hearing will help educate the public and the 108th Congress and motivate the media towards investigative action." Cofounder of the Citizen Hearing is Alfred L. Webre, author of Exopolitics, who will join Richard M. Dolan, author of UFOs and the National Security State, on the Board of Advisors. During the coming weeks additional advisors and sponsors are expected. The internet address for the Citizen Hearing will be: www.citizenhearing.org Beginning January 20, Mr. Bassett will be touring Nevada, California, Arizona and New Mexico building public awareness of the Citizen Hearing initiative and recruiting advisors to the Board. Also planned are private meetings with former Members of the Congress and potential supporters of the project. The last hearings of substance held in the Congress on the subject of extraterrestrial related phenomena were in 1966 and 1968 - 35 years ago. They were the "Hearing by the Committee on the Armed Services of the House of Representatives, 89th Congress, Second Session, April 5, 1966 (instigated by Congressman Gerald Ford) and the Symposium on Unidentified Flying Objects - Hearings before the Committee on Science and Astronautics of the US House of Representatives, 90th Congress, Second Session, July 29, 1968. These hearings were scripted and insufficient. Since 1991 repeated attempts to get the Congress to reengage the mounting evidence for an extraterrestrial presence have been rebuffed. The single notable exception was the late Steven Schiff of New Mexico. Scores of other Members have been approached with no resulting hearings. Since the Congress will not act, the public will. _________________________________________ 4938 Hampden Lane, #161, Bethesda, MD 20814 Phone: 301-990-4290 Cell: 202-431-2459 CitizenHearing@aol.com www.citizenhearing.org
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 11 Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? - From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 19:53:56 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 09:33:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? - >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 14:17:47 -0700 >Subject: Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? <snip> >>I submit that it would be impossible for an alien race to become >>"advanced" without some measure of curiosity. >From the human perspective, I would agree. However, I'm not sure why >there is any reason to believe that an alien race (and especially one >that is so advanced that they can "fold" space and time, which is part >of the original interview) would have any attributes that we could >recognize. Is there any reason to believe that "curiosity" for an alien >race would be similar to human "curiosity"? Our interpretation of >events is filtered through our own understanding and beliefs, and I'm >not sure that's a box that we can think out of. After all, anything we >think of us "human" by definition. As I mentioned in my previous post, this is really philosophical in nature, and this probably isn't the appropriate forum. Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 11 Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer From: Grant Cameron <presidentialufo@presidency.com> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 20:58:54 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 09:35:08 -0500 Subject: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer A weird one! Read the bizarre story and see pictures of the "pole deer" found in Manitoba, Canada, and the "tree deer" found in New York State. http://presidentialufo.com/newpage2.htm Then read an update story looking at a hoax to explain the wild circumstances. www.presidentialufo.com/pole_deer_hoax.htm Grant Cameron www.presidentialufo.com/news_update.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 11 'Strange Days... Indeed' - New Start Time From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 10:47:44 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 10:47:44 -0500 Subject: 'Strange Days... Indeed' - New Start Time Tonight's line-up includes, Dave Furlotte, Don Ledger, Stephen G. Bassett and Leslie Kean. Details can be found at: http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/sdi/program/ Listen, via SurferNet [available for both PC & Mac] at: http://www.cfrb.com ebk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 11 Re: Stan Romanek Case - Cash From: Jim Cash <jcash@outgun.com> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 13:31:29 +0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 10:56:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Stan Romanek Case - Cash >From: Jim Kelly <Azredant@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 23:34:54 EST >Subject: Stan Romanek Case <snip> >Jim Kelly >MUFON AZ I have read the article in UFO Magazine about Stan Romanek. I have also been following his case very closely. This case is amazing, but I have some questions directed at MUFON. Is it true that, while undergoing a regression, Stan wrote down some equations that he said were given to him when he was abducted? I was told that this is some new kind of math that explained how to jump space? Wow! Why is it being kept secret? I also heard that Stan has a learning disability; which would make this even more amazing. So, if this is all true, why is MUFON not saying anything? Jim Cash jcash@outgun.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 11 Orville The Anti-Gravity Mouse From: Kurt Jonach - The Electric Warrior <eWarrior@electricwarrior.com> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 21:34:40 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 11:17:46 -0500 Subject: Orville The Anti-Gravity Mouse TT Brown is not entirely unknown to the UFO community (I know he's controversial). Anyway, here is the latest about those lifters. Herein, you'll find a link that speaks to the "ionic wind" that many people mention with respect to this topic. -------------------------------------------------- The Electric Warrior : Web Log January 11, 2003 http://www.electricwarrior.com/ -------------------------------------------------- ORVILLE, THE ANTI-GRAVITY MOUSE alternative science image: World's 1st Electronaut Mouse http://www.electricwarrior.com/img/ElectronautMouse.jpg (The Electric Warrior) - Orville the mouse seemingly defied gravity this week when Jean-Louis Naudin conducted the world's first manned test flight of his enigmatic lifters. The technology behind these Weird Science lifters is theoretically based on the Biefeld-Brown effect. Although the physical basis for this effect is not presently understood, the maverick American physicist Thomas Townsend Brown once said it provided a directional thrust against the force of gravity. The Asymmetric Capacitor sounds like something straight out of a science fiction movie. Indeed, many scientists have attributed the phenomenon to "ionic wind". But a report by the Army Research Laboratory in Adelphi, Maryland describes the unknown force, saying "The calculations indicate that ionic wind is at least three orders of magnitude too small to explain the magnitude of the observed force on the capacitor." Orville could care less whether anybody understands the phenomenon, too. The 23 gram mouse was suspended in mid air on January 8 by a multi-celled aluminum foil configuration Jean- Louis calls Maximus. "Orville is always very cool during the flight and has never been afraid," says Naudin. Following the experiment, the mouse returned to its home in good health, and still "very cool and dynamic." The lifters are already well known to Electric Warriors, who read about Naudin's three stage lifter last Fall. At that time, Naudin was bearing a weight of 20 grams, about the weight of a large coin. His Maximus can lift three times that. An American colleague, Tim Ventura of American Antigravity, has been charting Naudin's success. Ventura recently emailed a spreadsheet with performance profiles that look better all the time. Naudin's RealAudio video clips are a must see. The Maximus gingerly lifts Orville to a height of about 1 foot (30 cm) and then unceremoniously drops him back to Earth when the power is cut off. The hexagonal three-tiered lifter resembles a UFO. The mouse looks perfectly normal. -------------------------------------------------- RELATED RESOURCES 08-Jan-03 Orville, the Mouse, is the 1st Worldwide Electronaut http://lifterproject.online.fr/orville/index.htm FRANCE (JLN Labs) - On January 8th, 2003, Orville, the mouse, has done successfully two historical flights as a test pilot of the Lifter "Maximus". Orville is now the 1st Worldwide "Electronaut" pilot which has done a flight aboard a propellantless electrokinetic craft. 27-Sep-02 Force on an Asymmetrical Capacitor http://arxiv.org/ftp/physics/papers/0211/0211001.pdf (Army Research Laboratory) - When a high voltage (~30 kV) is applied to a capacitor whose electrodes have different physical dimensions, the capacitor experiences a net force toward the smaller electrode (Biefeld-Brown effect). We have verified this effect by building four capacitors of different shapes. 11-Oct-02 3-Stage Antigravity Lifter Bears 20 Gram Load http://www.electricwarrior.com/news/ewNews0049.htm (The Electric Warrior) - A Weird Science antigravity technology had achieved a new milestone. If talk about asymmetrical capacitors sounds a little like SF movies such as "Back to the Future" or "Buckaroo Banzai", well, meet Thomas Townsend Brown, the maverick American physicist whose ideas about electrogravitation form the theoretical basis for Lifter experiments. -------------------------------------------------- THE ELECTRIC WARRIOR January 11, 2003 Silicon Valley, CA http://www.electricwarrior.com Graphics & Gonzo -------------------------------------------------- The "Electronaut Mouse" photo is copyright Jean-Louis Naudin This text is freely distributable for non-commercial purposes, provided you cite The Electric Warrior. Web developers should link here... http://www.electricwarrior.com Readers are strongly cautioned that The Electric Warrior asserts it is OK to laugh and have a good time with some of this stuff. Lighten Up! The Electric Warrior is not responsible for the content of Web links. Content reproduced here is for informational purposes only. All copyrights Acknowledged. eWarrior@electricwarrior.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 11 Corso - The Final Analysis From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 00:46:56 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 11:27:19 -0500 Subject: Corso - The Final Analysis Over the past few weeks we have discussed Corso. I also realize that like other topics, such as AA, MJ-12, security classification and others, the Corso topic floats up once or twice a year for discussion. Some points should be made. Co-author Birnes met with Corso a number of times and video taped 14 hours of Corso telling his story. Out of that, they were able to put the material together into a number of manuscripts, the first of which was 'The Day after Roswell'. At one point Birnes said that Corso would review the manuscript and make changes, then send it back to him. Apparently this happened more then three times as they were getting the book ready for publication. After the book was published a number of problems surfaced with the claims made in the book. By one account the first three chapters of the book were not correct, by another account there were problems throughout the book, by another account... so on and on. In the meantime Birnes claimed it was, in fact, what Corso told him. Supposedly (by one account) after Corso started getting hammered, so to speak, he started carrying around a notebook where he would make corrections to the story. Essentially the Corso defenders agree that there are various "problems" (they never use the word 'lie') and boil it down to the fact that, even though there are a number of problems, the basic concept that ET technology from Roswell was seeded into private industry between 1960-62. Never mind the fact that Corso defenders have not been able to find a shred of verifiable documentation, outside of 'Phil said.....'. As I recall, Corso claimed that the invention of fibre optics, lasers, transistors, night vision, and integrated circuits were all part of the technology that the Army seeded to private industry. All of this even though the transistor was invented between November 17 and Dec 23 1947 (after Roswell but long before Corso's alleged seeding operation;) fibre optics were around or in development stages from the 30s forward, night vision generation 1 came out in the late 50s, the integrated circuit was invented by Jack Kilby in September of 1958 (the size of a pencil) and another person in California also had a IC design as well. Again all of this long before Corso allegedly ever seeded any technology to private industry. When this subject is brought up, generally the Corso supporters rationalize it away by making the claim that the ET technology somehow speeded up technological developments, blah, blah, blah. Corso claimed that he was President Eisenhower's military aide in the White House. Corso also claimed that he had a personal meeting with an ET in a gold mine in/near the Red Canyon Range at White Sands in 1957. One of the comments ET made to him (telephatic communication) was what he was going to use for the title of his next book 'A New World If You Can Take It' Corso also allegedly had some linkage to time machines and told stories about an alleged Nazi time machine and some encounter he had with an UFO ET Time machine near the Trinity site in 1959. After the unexpected death of Corso, his son Phillip Jr. was going to put all the information out to the public via a web site called the 'Corso Files'. This all died due to some business squabble that was going on with the folks running the web site. After the death of the web site the whole Corso story seemed to be put on the back burner, which is where it sits today. Note: Supposedly at some point Corso also claimed that in April of 2003 either something would happen, be invented or whatever, in which the US would be at the same technological level as ET was at Roswell in 1947. The bottom line is Corso tells an interesting story that has various problems. At this point nobody can seem to come up with any independently verifiable evidence that ET technology was seeded to private industry when Corso claimed it was. So all we have is 'Phil said.....'. Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 11 Re: Corso - Auchettl From: John W. Auchettl <Praufo@aol.com> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 01:43:01 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 11:29:18 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Auchettl >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 00:07:46 +0000 >Fwd Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 21:06:32 -0500 >Subject: Re: Corso - Hall >Jan may not be elegant in his expression, but he knows what the >hell he is talking about, and so do a lot of us who have been at >this for a long time. Hi Dick, EBK & List, Just a quick question. Dick, did you (or Jan) know Corso in the: 1960's, 70's, 80's? The statment "this for a long time", how long is that exactly? Regards, John Phenomena Research Australia [PRA] P.O. Box 523, Mulgrave, Victoria, Australia, 3170 Australian & Asia UFO 1961-2003 - 42 YEARS OF RESEARCH SERVICE
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 11 Re: Corso - Auchettl From: John W. Auchettl <Praufo@aol.com> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 01:59:17 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 11:31:22 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Auchettl >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 12:29:45 EST >Subject: Re: Corso - Randle http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2003/jan/m08-016.shtml <snip> >And I read in the newspaper this morning that Lt. Gen. Michael >Hagee, who is going to become the Commandant of the Marines has >removed three medals... <snip> Hi Kevin, What is your point? Are you saying that a few bad apples corrupt the orchard or does it fit into your ideas that some are corrupt so Corso must also be corrupt? Is this an example of a scatter gun approach on Corso's good record and name to validate an argument? And: >I would like to point out that I have never implied that >Lieutenant Colonel Philip Corso is a liar. [1]. He is in fact a "real", Army Colonel. Regards to you, John [1]. http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2003/jan/m10-014.shtml Phenomena Research Australia [PRA] P.O. Box 523, Mulgrave, Victoria, Australia, 3170 Australian & Asia UFO 1961-2003 - 42 YEARS OF RESEARCH SERVICE
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 11 The Last Of The 2002 HBCC UFO Reports From: Brain Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 00:38:07 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 11:36:05 -0500 Subject: The Last Of The 2002 HBCC UFO Reports Howdy List Well this is the works from me, I think. I believe I have everything now done, or at least short version of the remaning reports. So on to 2003. Wonder if this New Year will be as busy. Makes one wonder. Take care Brian --- Endako, British Columbia Date: June 18, 2002 Time: approx: 11:55 p.m. Two witnesses (workers) report seeing an object hovering over the far southern end of Endako Mines. They described the object as being oval in shape, the main body of it was white and the outer edges (halo) was a blue/green in color. The sighting lasted approx: 5 to 6 seconds they guessed and watched it fly very quickly to the south and over and then drop down behind a mountain. This is where they lost sight of it. An interesting note: The mine produces Molybdenum and it's location is as follows. Endako Mines is located about 850 km north of Vancouver, Canada and is 190 km west of Prince George, near the centre of BC. It is served by Highway 16, running between Prince George and Prince Rupert. The turnoff to the mine is located 11 km west of Fraser Lake and the mine itself is situated at the end of an 11 km road from that turnoff. (Thank god for the mine having a website to gather some information off, it helps!!!) I will finish this report up later on, but for some who may be interested in reading some information on the mine, visit there website at: http://colorado.rockiesguide.com/cgi-bin/search/rockiesguide.cgi?frameset=1&acti on=Click&fid=987399574 There are photos of the mine and maps, etc... Take care Brian -------------- Terrace, British Columbia Date: June 27, 2002 Time: approx: 11:10 p.m. (Possible star) I received a phone call from a fellow who claims to have watched an object/light in the night sky. He reported seeing the object just sitting in one location low in the horizon before he lost sight of it. The sighting lasted approx: 45 minutes from when he first observed it to where it dropped down behind a mountain in the area. The witness said the object would change colors, from blue to red to green. Also it seems to be flashing, I made a suggestion to him, "would it maybe be twinkling". The witness said yes. I do believe what the fellow was watching was a star. Take care Brian Well that is it from me at least until I receive a new one.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 11 Re: Corso - Auchettl From: John W. Auchettl <Praufo@aol.com> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 03:55:34 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 11:41:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Auchettl >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 13:48:43 -0800 >Subject: Re: Corso - Gehrman <snip> >But its a crying shame to dismiss Corso's fascinating memories as >fraudulent, and nothing but lies. Hi Ed, EBK & List, The problem with Dick and Jan is that they can not conceive a life that runs parallel to their beliefs. The Corso anomaly popped into their quantum world, without their approval and worst of all, who was this Colonel and what did he know about Ufology. Corsos parallel universe is just as foreign and terrifying to Dick and Jan's reality as "Marilyn Manson", "D12", "Limp Bizkit", "xzibit", "Obie Trice" parallel existence. Can you see them in a MOSH PIT? Something must be wrong in reality? So let's pick the scab. Let's make them conform or better still wipe the scab away. If we bully them they may change into a modern Deano, Sinatra or even Bing. Outside their reality, all is foreign and unfortunately to them any comment or explanation is categorised as low level "psycho babble". It's because they are scared to admit that Corso may be real. He is like a blemish on a family photo, they need to remove him so the photo looks right, cleaned up. But the great thing about this Ed, no matter how hard the pious wriggle, Corso won't go away. If there is any justice in the world then I hope he irritates a few more. The pious don't want you to discuss Corso. Why, they don't understand him, they don't want him to exist, the harder they try to erase his memory the more Corso shadows their wonderland world. Corso is hear to stay, for good or bad (I say good), and thank God, if nothing else Corsos tilt on what the 50s/60s was like is far more accurate and more interesting than some pretenders remembrance of the 1950s and 1960s were. The most interesting aspect to the pious logic (holy than though bully) is the wonderful thought that some day soon, some young citizen will have a wonderful time blasting the net with his views, digging up the dirt, looking for the sins of the Holy and best of all having a little look through the army records, very much like the great Frank Kauffman forced confessions. And I will venture to say the righteous are not be too high above Corso in fact even more colourful. The beauty of this vision is that the current sentence issued to Corso with be smeared on these pious pillars of ufology and they will, on death, need the support of people like you Ed, just to be heard over the next generation of holy than though bullies. But by the grace of God go I. Then comes the big gripe, the reality - 'Corso wrote a book'! That's right and he never asked their approval, or for that fuzzy feeling, the "Peer Review" sensation. To add to the "How Dare He" list, Corso got on the NY Times best seller list. And even today the book is merrily selling at a very high rate [1] and Dick's fine book, well... [1]. I think Corso is a interesting man, yes semi-red-neck, yet a brave man with wonderful credentials, with somthing to tell us all. He has an Army record most would love to have on file in the National Archives. I believe, like Colin Bennett said in one of his original and very thoughtful and interesting works on this list [2], like American novelist Toni Morrison, (with my changes) Ed, 'you listen and let the trail talk to you'. Others may like to take the time to listen and follow your trail. Regards to you, John [1]. AMAZON Ratings - as of 11 Jan 2003: You Can't Tell the People - Georgina Bruni = 8,056 <High The Day After Roswell - Philip Corso, William Birnes = 12,530 Out of the Shadows - David Clarke, Andy Roberts = 27,158 Case Mj-12 - Kevin D. Randle = 39,009 The UFO Evidence - Vol 2 - Richard Hall = 196,281 <Low [2]. para 3, line 11 http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/dec/m16-005.shtml American novelist Toni Morrison, I listen and let the trail talk to me. Phenomena Research Australia [PRA] P.O. Box 523, Mulgrave, Victoria, Australia, 3170 Australian & Asia UFO 1961-2003 - 42 YEARS OF RESEARCH SERVICE
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 11 Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? - From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 01:38:49 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 11:44:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? - >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 14:17:47 -0700 >Subject: Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? >I submit that it would be impossible for an alien race to become >"advanced" without some measure of curiosity. >==JJS== Hello Jim: I certainly agree with your last statement. A race of living entities thoroughly lacking in curiosity and imagination would never become technologically advanced. They might taste good steamed or on the half-shell however. If not, maybe they aerate the soil or something. Best - Larry
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 11 Italian UFO Newsflash No. 379 From: Edoardo Russo <edoardo.russo@tiscali.it> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 10:33:49 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 11:46:01 -0500 Subject: Italian UFO Newsflash No. 379 ITALIAN UFO NEWSFLASH ISSUE NO. 379 - 20 DECEMBER 2002 by the Italian Center for UFO Studies (Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici, CISU) Contents: - UFOs & Trash Cinema: CISU Award - New Magazines On Italian Newsstands UFOS & TRASH CINEMA: CISU AWARD From 20 through 22 December, Turin will host the seventh edition of the "Trash Cinema Festival." For the second year, in keeping with the spirit of the event, the "UFO & Cinema Project" of the Italian Center for UFO Studies (CISU) will bestow an award for best UFO-themed short film upon one of those entries participating in the event. The awards presentation will be held on Sunday the 22nd, at 6:30 pm, in the Billar Multimedia Center at via Montecuccoli 1/a. [Torino Sette, 19 December; La Repubblica, Turin edition, 18 and 20 December; collaboration by Fabrizio Dividi and Gian Paolo Grassino] NEW MAGAZINES ON ITALIAN NEWSSTANDS The Christmas Season heralds the arrival on newsstands of two new magazines dedicated to mystery and esoteric subjects. The editorial group Olimpia has entrusted Roberto Pinotti with a third periodical on the heels of the monthly "Ufo Notiziario" and the bimonthly "Archeomisteri": it's called "Oltre l'ignoto - Gli speciale dei misteri" ("Beyond the Unknown - Special Issues on Mysteries ). The topics therein will range from parapsychology to reincarnation, from magic to alternative medicine, from spiritualism to the Great Pyramid. The first issue, entirely written by Alfredo Lissoni, totals 96 pages and costs 5 Euro. Meanwhile, the Milan publishing house GaJa has assigned Editing Ltd. in Rome to edit a new astrology magazine entitled "Il segno di Branko" ("Branko's Sign"), produced by the TV astrologer of the same name. Among the topics dealing with astrology, there are also some pages concerning ufology , a subject which, in the first issue (dated January and just appearing on newsstands for 2.90 Euro at 112 pages), is starkly confronted in a short article by Maurizio Baiata: "The Enigma of Crop Circles". [Communication by Caterina Kolosimo] Collaborators on this edition were: Fabrizio Dividi, Gian Paolo Grassino and Caterina Kolosimo. - - - This is the English translation of UFOTEL, a free phone/Internet information service on UFOs edited weekly by Edoardo Russo for the Italian Center for UFO Studies (Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici), available in Italian by calling +39-011-545294, or by e-mail subscription, or on CISU website at http://www.arpnet.it/ufo/ultime.htm UFOTEL is a supplement to "UFO - Rivista di informazione ufologica", published by the Italian Center for UFO Studies, registered at Tribunale di Torino, No. 3670, on 19 June 1986. Director: Giovanni Settimo. Publisher: Cooperativa UPIAR, Corso Vittorio Emanuele 108, 10121 Turin, Italy Translated from Italian to English by: Gary J. Presto, Freelance IT-EN Translator/Proofreader 1123 Revere Beach Pky., # 12 Revere, MA 02151 USA Tel.: ++ 1.781.485.1683, Fax: ++ 1.781.485.1684 ICQ: 110502923, E-mail: gpresto@attbi.com Webpage: http://www.proz.com/translator/723 - - - (c) 2002 by: CISU, Corso Vittorio Emanuele 108, 10121 Torino, Italia This newsletter (as a whole or in part) may be freely copied, photocopied, reproduced, stored, distributed and retrieved, at the only condition that Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici is reported as the source. You may get it directly via e-mail by subscribing (just send a blank message to: cisuflash-subscribe@yahoogroups.com) The CISU is a no-profit association whose aims are: - to promote the scientific study of UFO phenomena in Italy; - to help circulate information about UFO phenomena and studies; - to coordinate national activities of data collecting and studying. You may reach Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici: - by mail: CISU, Corso Vittorio Emanuele 108, 10121 Torino, Italia - by phone: +39 (011) 30.78.63 (24 hours UFO Hotline) - by fax: +39 (011) 54.50.33 - by Internet e-mail: cisu@ufo.it - at the World Wide Web URL: http://www.cisu.org
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 11 Daily Mail Article On Alien Abductions From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 14:24:37 -0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 11:51:02 -0500 Subject: Daily Mail Article On Alien Abductions Today's edition (Saturday January 11) of the Daily Mail carries a two-page feature by Geoffrey Wansell, focusing on alien abductions. The article has been written to tie-in with the UK premier of 'Taken', which will be screened tonight at 9pm on BBC2. The article covers a lot of ground, including the cases of Jason Andrews and Bridget Grant. Bridget (pseudonym) is an abductee who I worked with for several years, and took to New York to work with Budd Hopkins. I gave a joint presentation with her at the September 2001 conference organised by "UFO Magazine" editor Graham W Birdsall. The article also covers UFOs more generally, focusing on Georgina Bruni's work with Lord Hill-Norton and the subsequent release of various Ministry of Defence documents on UFOs. Also mentioned are Georgina's conversations with former Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, and former Secretary of State for Defence Michael Portillo. Overall, the article is sympathetic to the abductees, and whatever one's views on the subject, should help provoke a wider debate on the issue. Hopefully someone will scan the full text of the article in at some stage, or find a link to an online version if and when it is posted, and forward it to this List. Best wishes, Nick Pope
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 11 New Crater Revives Moon Mystery From: Steven L. Wilson Sr <Ndunlks@aol.com> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 09:57:55 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 11:54:19 -0500 Subject: New Crater Revives Moon Mystery Source: The New Scientist http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99993242 13:30 11 January 03 New Crater Revives Moon Mystery A mysterious flash on the Moon caught on camera 50 years ago is still provoking disagreements about its origin. Astronomer Bonnie Buratti says her new results show that the flash was caused by a 20-metre asteroid hitting the Moon. If Buratti is right, such impacts may be more frequent than thought - about once every 30 years on the Earth, and every 500 years on the Moon. But other asteroid watchers think the flash was due to a small meteor burning up in Earth's atmosphere. Amateur astronomer Leon Stuart's 1953 photograph of the Moon shows a light spot near the centre of the Moon's visible surface. It would take a half-megaton explosion to produce such a flash, says Buratti, of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory at Pasadena. The resulting crater would not be visible from Earth, but it should appear on close-ups taken by lunar probes. In a future issue of the journal Icarus, Buratti reports a fresh impact scar at the site of the 1953 flash on images collected by the Clementine spacecraft as it orbited the Moon in 1994. A bright blanket of ejected material covers an area that is about 1.5 kilometres across, and the colour of the debris indicates that the crater is relatively new. Point meteors But the odds against such a big lunar impact are too long for Peter Brown of the University of Western Ontario, who has used US military satellite data to estimate meteor impact rates on the Earth. "I think they are going too far," he told New Scientist. Instead, he believes that the flash was a meteor falling to Earth, which appeared as a bright spot because it was moving directly towards the observer. Although such "point meteors" are rare, they are much more common than lunar impacts. He is not impressed by the crater's appearance. "We have no absolute criteria" for the age of lunar craters, he says. "'Fresh' could be 20 million years old." Buratti calls Brown's claim "preposterous". She says Stuart was an experienced observer, his half-second exposure shows no trace of motion, and the flash was near a point on the leading edge of the Moon where impacts are most likely. "Our identification of the crater validates Stuart's claim that it was an impact." Jeff Hecht
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 11 Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? - From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 07:23:55 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 11:56:32 -0500 Subject: Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? - >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 11:31:48 -0500 >Subject: Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? >Hello Steve, all: >I have heard this sort of thing before, that a sufficiently >advanced society would have no interest in Earthly doings and >inhabitants. >I don't buy into it at all. <snip> John, Neither do I. This is just more of that party line spouted by SETI scientists. Intelligent life recognizes the behavior of other intelligent life and my studies in Biology seem to indicate that the probability of other humanoids in the universe is increasing. >UFOs and abductions _explain_ each other! I would say so, at least to some degree for some of us. Regards, Bill
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 11 Re: C.E.: Worldwide UFO Wave Prediction 03-15-03 - From: Hannes la Rue <hannes.la.rue@mufon-ces.org> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 16:45:02 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 12:21:43 -0500 Subject: Re: C.E.: Worldwide UFO Wave Prediction 03-15-03 - >From: Don Johnson <ufocat@cufos.org> >To: CURRENT-ENCOUNTERS@LISTSERV.AOL.COM >Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 16:17:54 -0500 >Subject: Prediction For March 15 2003 Worldwide UFO Wave <snip> Dear Mr. Johnson, research colleagues, With interest we learned about the "prediction". I am sure it is based on a statistical analysis of the CUFOS UFO Report Database. We at the German Language Section of MUFON are building a database at the moment. So far, we have managed our data without using computers. Our new database will guarantee, that data will be internationally exchangable. I can imagine a discussion, leading to more co-operation. First, how is data input, managed and exchanged at CUFOS and other organizations? Are similar categories, variables and the same classification system used so data is exchangable within CUFOS, MUFON, FUFOR, NIDS, CISU, SOBEPS, etc? Best regards Hannes la Rue -- Hannes la Rue News & Webmaster MUFON-CES e.V. Gesellschaft zur Untersuchung von anomalen atmosph=E4rischen und Radar-Erscheinungen (Mutual UFO Network - Central European Section) hannes.la.rue@mufon-ces.org www.mufon-ces.org
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 11 Re: Corso - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 17:18:00 +0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 12:51:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Hall >From: John W. Auchettl <Praufo@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 01:43:01 EST >Subject: Re: Corso >Hi Dick, EBK & List, >Just a quick question. >Dick, did you (or Jan) know Corso in the: 1960's, 70's, 80's? >The statment "this for a long time", how long is that exactly? John, By your own reasoning (if it can be called that), facts don't count! I have just reviewed three of your posts dated Jan. 11 and conclude that you are another 'will-to-believer' who rejects facts, logic, scientific method, in favor of... what? Subjective preference? You want to believe Corso, therefore he is telling the truth? Until you explain your epistemology, no discourse is possible. What are _you_ afraid of? Tell us how you decide what to believe and base decisions on. - Dick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 11 Re: Corso - Chapman From: Mary Chapman <mchapman@atiinternet.com> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 09:28:38 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 12:57:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Chapman >From: John W. Auchettl <Praufo@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 03:55:34 EST >Subject: Re: Corso >>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 13:48:43 -0800 >>Subject: Re: Corso Pardon me Gentlemen: I am just a lay person... no credentials whatsoever! With that said, however, I ask that you all use a little common sense. (or maybe Alien sense, LOL) As a young girl, I always thought that there was life 'out there', and that the big ole scientists would someday realise that perhaps the Alien Life operated on "different" set of equations... or different 'biological' propensity that would sustain 'their' lives! I'm not making sense, but it's hard to do so when we are talking about two different 'Life Forms'! Also... don't you suppose that when (and not if) the time travel experience becomes available, it will lead those travelers to any time in history... therefore, it doesn't matter when in "our" future the Time Machine is invented, because at that time... _all_ of history is accessible! Corso just happened to be at the right place at the right time! Yours truly, Alfie (Yes...alien life force here on earth!) <LOL>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 11 Re: Corso - Sandow From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 12:42:18 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 13:15:44 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Sandow >From: John W. Auchettl <Praufo@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 03:55:34 EST >Subject: Re: Corso >The problem with Dick and Jan is that they can not conceive a >life that runs parallel to their beliefs. The Corso anomaly >popped into their quantum world, without their approval and >worst of all, who was this Colonel and what did he know about >Ufology. >Corsos parallel universe is just as foreign and terrifying to >Dick and Jan's reality as "Marilyn Manson", "D12", "Limp >Bizkit", "xzibit", "Obie Trice" parallel existence. Can you see >them in a MOSH PIT? >Something must be wrong in reality? So let's pick the scab. >Let's make them conform or better still wipe the scab away. If >we bully them they may change into a modern Deano, Sinatra or >even Bing. Cute metaphor. But how about this? I think Corso's story is bullspit. But if you look at the Spin Alternative Record Guide, you'll see I've contributed aritcles on Slayer, Eazy-E, NWA, and Ice-T. Not exactly Dean Martin. So the musical analogy breaks down. (Spin, for those who might not know, is a major rock magazine in the US. Their guide has a lot more attitude than the useful encyclopedias that Rolling Stone publishes. And, again for those whose musical tastes take them elsewhere, Slayer was one of the first and most important death metal bands, and the others are pioneers of gangsta rap. This isn't peaceful, old-fashioned music. Ice-T and I were very friendly for a while.) There's a lot to be said for the cultural analysis of ideas. That's the grain of truth when Colin Bennett carries on about postmodern this and that. Every idea has a cultural history. Everybody is predisposed to believe some things and disbelieve others, simply because of the culture they're part of. Or, more precisely, the subculture, because obviously the western culture most of us here belong to has many offshoots and variants. There aren't any neutral ideas, culturally speaking. But on the other hand, there really is such a thing as objective truth. To give a perfectly banal example, there's no argument about whether the World Trade Center was destroyed on 9/11. You might, before that happened, take a right-wing view, and say that America, with its gigantic strength, was invulnerable. Or you might take a left-wing view, and say that America is an oppressive power, that the people fighting it are just and moral, and that therefore they'd never resort to such terrorism. But the fact is that the towers were destroyed by Muslim terrorists. You could go deeper, and consider some of the ideas floating around about that event. One of them is that all Jews who worked in the World Trade Center were warned to get out - the theory here being that the attack was really carried out by Israel, to give Arabs a bad name. And there's no question that this idea is unwelcome in the USA. There's great resistance to believing it. It would be easy to write Colin Bennett-like screeds explaining, with great amusing vagueness, how maybe this idea shouldn't be so readily dismissed. Dean Martin thinking, you know. Except that this idea is completely untrue. (I'm Jewish myself, and know at least one very religious Jew who worked in the World Trade Center that day. He certainly got no warning, and is lucky he's alive.) And it won't do at all to carry on amusingly but vaguely about how standards of evidence and scientific proof are out of date, and how anyone who believes in them is listening to Bing Crosby. Because, after all, it's kind of important to know who attacked the World Trade Center, and why. There's the not so tiny matter of protecting us from further attacks. I don't think that even postmodern theorists want to die in flames. (NOTE: I'm absolutely not saying that Colin Bennett believes Israel attacked the World Trade Center! I'm just using this belief as an example of something that really has to be proved true or false - something we can't just leave with a light-hearted, "Hey, maybe, and there's no such thing as scientific proof anyway." Which brings up another area where truth and evidence are, to say the least, important. I know a postmodern scholar - an academic who at times writes the kind of thing Colin Bennett stretches into unrecognizability - who had to have two hip replacements. When her doctor told her that, did she reply, Bennett-style, "Well, I don't know... your standards of medical reasoning are too old-fashioned, too strict, too Sammy Davis, Jr." She considered the evidence, and made the decision to have surgery. This doesn't mean that sometimes medical reasoning really is too restricted; sometimes alternative therapies really work. And sometimes they don't. Deciding which way to go, medically, can be a life and death decision. You can't just talk airily about post-modernism. You have to make a choice. Suppose my friend was diagnosed with breast cancer? Would she have said, "Well, you know... this division of tumors into benign or malignant... that's really obsolete, you know!" In my view, the presence of aliens on earth is one of those life or death questions that really has to be answered one way or the other. Of course (as, by the way, the psychosocial theorists are forever saying on the skeptical side of the question) ideas about that alien presence are culturally conditioned, heavily so. That doesn't change things, though - aliens are either here, or they aren't, and (depending on their intentions), it makes a huge difference which. Especially if the aliens intend something dramatic, like making slaves of all of us, or (as in the "To Serve Man" episode of "Twilight Zone") plan to eat us for dinner. Or, for that matter, if they plan to give us all the ice cream we can eat, and take us disco dancing. If they're here, it would be really helpful to know what they're up to. Maybe they're going to force us all into a cosmic mosh pit! Would John Auchetti, for all his brave talk, really like that? As for Corso - he's either lying or telling the truth. Or he might be lying sometimes and telling the truth other times, but it's possible, given enough information, to take his statements one by one and decide which ones are true. And, given the importance of what he says, it's really important to do that. Postmodernism has many virtues, but it definitely is not an excuse to believe anything at all that strikes our fancy. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 11 New Info On 1973 High Strangeness Case From: Albert Rosales <Garuda79@aol.com> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 13:13:24 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 17:08:21 -0500 Subject: New Info On 1973 High Strangeness Case Location. El Yunque Mountain Puerto Rico Date: October 20 1973 Time: late night Nine campers, students led by three adults had gone to El Yunque hoping to "contact" UFOs and their occupants. They made camp high up on a mountain trail, preparing to spend a night that would turn out to be the longest in their lives. Mr. Heriberto Ramos, the group's leader, stated that at one point during their ascent along the trail, they met three persons heading downward. There was nothing "alien" about the trio aside from the fact that they all dressed exactly alike and with similar features. One of the group members, who had stayed behind, took a photo of both the other group members and the three mysterious walkers, but only a patch of mist appeared on the developed film where the trio stood. At a given moment that night, thoroughly convinced that an otherwise uneventful vigil lay ahead, the campers were surrounded by five or six vaguely humanoid figures which darted about the thick vegetation with claw-like hands and elongated ears. Some of the "monsters" blocked the precipice flanked trail that constituted the only way down from the mountain and back to the safety of their vehicles. From a prudent distance one of the creatures regarded Ramos intently. Upon noticing this, the latter tried walking cautiously toward the eldritch being hoping to show that his group's intentions were amicable. Ramos stood less than ten feet away from the creature, and was able to describe it as having a triangular head, and "extraordinary" eyes. Amazingly, he managed to touch the strange being, which did not stir. Its skin felt neither cold nor rubbery. Almost simultaneously, one of the students lit a large, powerful flashlight in the direction where the contact was taking place, flooding the area with light. The clawed creature reacted by racing away from the scene, literally tearing a path right through the dense vegetation, which led to a 100 foot long drop, giving the startled Ramos reason to think he had frightened the being into jumping. To the man's amazement, it reappeared instantly at the side of its fellows, which were still blocking the downward path. For endless hours until the sky began to lighten, the besieged campers were surrounded by the beings, which remained in constant motion around them. Terror had led one of the students to bang himself repeatedly on the head with a flashlight, hoping to escape the situation by passing out. Seized by an inexplicable urge, another camper expressed a desire to take a walk in the woods. Fearing for his mental state, one of his companions offered to walk with him. Before they'd taken more than a dozen steps, they found what could only be described as a glimmering, polychromatic "egg" lying on the ground. While entranced by the curious flashing object, neither one felt brave enough to touch it. Later that night, they would see it in the claws of one of the nonhuman besiegers. Was this a "bait" of some sort, its pulsating colors designed to mesmerize prey? At sunrise the campers made a mad dash for the cars they'd left parked at the bottom of the mountain. Not a trace of the alie [Remainder missing --ebk] Humcat 1973-52 Source: Webb in 1973, The Year of The Humanoids Also Scott Corrales, Sebastian Robiou Lamarche, & Jorge Martin Type: E
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 11 Re: Corso - Gehrman From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 10:54:45 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 17:10:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Gehrman >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 23:04:54 +0000 >Subject: Re: Corso >If you say, "nothing," then you are being consistent. Then, when >Ed Gehrman (or anyone else) says that we should believe Corso, >what is that based on? Richard, I don't tell folks that we should believe Corso. I believe Corso! and don't believe he should be dismissed as a liar. Others should at least read what he says and then decide for themselves. This discussion began when Laurel asked an innocent question about Corso and some of you gave the impression that Corso had been dealt with and there was no need for her to waste time on such matters. I thought that was a little too much so I offered my evidence which makes a point to show that the Corso was a historical fact and that he did do the things he said he did during the late fifties and early sixties. He worked for Russell and Thurmond and was respected by both. He was an intelligence player and this can't be discounted or dismissed. We know he worked with Gen. Trudeau, that they were friends, and that the General had Corso by his side during later interviews and during Senate hearings on the MIA and the U-2 incident. So as long as we're setting the record straight: I don't want folks to believe. I want them to open their minds to the possibility that Corso's revelations are legitimate. And I want everyone to read 'The Day After Roswell'. Ed
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 11 Re: Corso - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 16:06:58 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 17:11:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Ledger >From: John W. Auchettl <Praufo@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 03:55:34 EST >Subject: Re: Corso >[1]. AMAZON Ratings - as of 11 Jan 2003: >You Can't Tell the People - Georgina Bruni = 8,056 <High >The Day After Roswell - Philip Corso, William Birnes = 12,530 >Out of the Shadows - David Clarke, Andy Roberts = 27,158 >Case Mj-12 - Kevin D. Randle = 39,009 >The UFO Evidence - Vol 2 - Richard Hall = 196,281 <Low I think you are being a little devious here John, mixing apples and oranges-amazon.uk and amazon.com You are showing the Amazon rankings for the UK for "You Can't Tell the People" and "Out of the Shadows" which aren't listed in the American Amazon.com. The day After Roswell is as you posted for Amazon.com but in the UK its in the high 20s. The rankings are all over the board between the UK and the States. For instance [MAJOR AND SHAMELESS PLUG HERE] "Dark Object" is listed at 2,787 <High [as you say] in the UK but up around 75,000 [medium] in the US. I'm not sure how you can compare Dick Hall's "The UFO Evidence II" [one of my bibles] with Corso's fictional piece-The Day After Roswell. Dick's book will be still gracing bookshelves 50 years down the road, informing people -in detail- of the cases of the past, while Corso's will be leveling up a table legs in Summer camps. Corso's is in paperback at $6.99 US [so's mine] while Dick's is in Hardcover at $50.00 US or $3000.00 Canadian. I have a copy-had to get a second mortgage on my house, mind you-but I have a copy. Best, Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 11 Re: Daily Mail Article On Alien Abductions - Clarke From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 20:19:35 -0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 17:13:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Daily Mail Article On Alien Abductions - Clarke >From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 14:24:37 -0000 >Subject: Daily Mail Article On Alien Abductions >The article also covers UFOs more generally, focusing on >Georgina Bruni's work with Lord Hill-Norton and the subsequent >release of various Ministry of Defence documents on UFOs. Hi Nick, Possibly the most amusing section of the Daily Mail article is the following: "With Bruni's encouragement...Lord Hill-Norton, a former Chief of the Defence staff, tabled 16 Parliamentary questions in the House of Lords - as a result of which the Government released more than 200 previously secret files concerning UFOs and aliens...one of the files revealed that then Prime Minister Winston Churchill wanted the matter investigated in 1952." Drawing upon your detailed knowledge of MoD files, could you explain to us *exactly* which "200 previously secret files concerning UFOs and aliens" have been released as a *direct* result of Hill-Norton's questions...names and class references please. Are you suggesting the files currently available at the PRO are there not as a result of the 30 year rule, but rather as a result of Hill-Norton's questions? Lords Hansard, Written Answers, 19 November 1998, suggests otherwise. Lord Gilbert listed the references and titles of all "open and closed" MoD files relating to UFOs. Hill-Norton then asked if he would "authorise the opening of the closed files at the Public Record Office." In response, Lord Gilbert said: "The [files] will be released at the 30 year point in the normal way", and that is precisely what has happened. Georgina or yourself might also explain how it is that Hill- Norton gets the credit for releasing the Churchill memo. As anyone who was around at the time can confirm, Churchill's memo was released at the PRO in the mid-1980s under the 30 year rule. Hill-Norton asked his questions in the Lords in 1998, over a decade after the Churchill memo had entered the public domain. The UFO files currently available at the PRO (currently around 100 separate files) have all been released under the terms of the 30 and 50 year rule, as anyone who cares to visit Kew can confirm by an examination of the PRO catalogue. But why let the facts get in the way of a good story? Best, Dave Clarke
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 11 Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? - From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 16:48:09 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 17:14:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? - >From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 07:23:55 -0800 >Subject: Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 11:31:48 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? Bill, John, Did you ever notice in Sci-fi and in the old movies that one of the main reasons the aliens didn't want us around was because we were too warlike. We were barbarians [which we are] but somehow the rest of the intelligent universe didn't evolve through survival of the fittest-didn't have food chains-sex...never had an asteroid [or oids] smash into their planet. They just benignly evolved-being very polite to one another-until they got intelligent, or at least what we think of as being intelligent. If the speed of light and [now] gravity can be constants-why not the process of evolution as it goes on until some disaster strikes-and then goes on again with the same set of rules, just new species or derivatives of the previous species. In order for us to get out into space and pollute the rest of the comos as we've done our own, we had to have had the willingness to overcome obstacles-and you don't do that by being polite. I don't think "they" would ignore us as if we were ants any more than we ignore chimps and lab rats. But sometimes maybe they get into situations where it's like holding off an attacking wolf by grabbing an ear in each hand. It's just a question of who gives up [or out] first. Best, Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 11 Re: Corso - Gates From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 15:52:52 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 17:16:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Gates >From: John W. Auchettl <Praufo@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 03:55:34 EST >Subject: Re: Corso >>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 13:48:43 -0800 >>Subject: Re: Corso - Gehrman ><snip> >>But its a crying shame to dismiss Corso's fascinating memories as >>fraudulent, and nothing but lies. >The problem with Dick and Jan is that they can not conceive a >life that runs parallel to their beliefs. The Corso anomaly >popped into their quantum world, without their approval and >worst of all, who was this Colonel and what did he know about >Ufology. Lt Colonel, not Colonel. The problem with Corso was is not Jan and Dick, but Corso and the story he told which other then "Corso said" is not verifiable..at least the ET side. We have had so called prominent people (or people that were considered to be prominent) tell incredible tales from mass ET landings in the desert sw to occur on April 24th 1997 to an alleged ET landing on a mountaintop in Arizona in Dec of 2000, not to mention on the Roswell side Gerald Anderson, whose story can't be verified and Frank Kaufman who stroked his military record and was story telling. Corso tells an interesting story that for the most part can't be proven or verified. Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 11 Worldwide UFO Datbase [was: Re: C.E.: Worldwide From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos@yahoo.es> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 22:03:59 +0100 (CET) Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 17:21:05 -0500 Subject: Worldwide UFO Datbase [was: Re: C.E.: Worldwide >From: Hannes la Rue <hannes.la.rue@mufon-ces.org> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 16:45:02 +0100 >Subject: Re: C.E.: Worldwide UFO Wave Prediction 03-15-03 >>From: Don Johnson <ufocat@cufos.org> >>To: CURRENT-ENCOUNTERS@LISTSERV.AOL.COM >>Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 16:17:54 -0500 >>Subject: Prediction For March 15 2003 Worldwide UFO Wave ><snip> >Dear Mr. Johnson, research colleagues, >With interest we learned about the "prediction". I am sure it is >based on a statistical analysis of the CUFOS UFO Report >Database. >We at the German Language Section of MUFON are building a >database at the moment. So far, we have managed our data without >using computers. >Our new database will guarantee, that data will be >internationally exchangable. >I can imagine a discussion, leading to more co-operation. First, >how is data input, managed and exchanged at CUFOS and other >organizations? >Are similar categories, variables and the same classification >system used so data is exchangable within CUFOS, MUFON, FUFOR, >NIDS, CISU, SOBEPS, etc? The questions posed by Hannes la Rue are clever and timely. Hannes - you will probably not be aware of this - belongs to the German MUFON-CES group which, unknown to most non-European researchers, has produced a remarkable series of books (unfortunately most of them in German language). It is already time for a worldwide catalog of UFO/IFO cases built under common standards. By own experience (I have worked with case catalogs since I started doing it as a young coworker of Dr Jacques Vall=E9e back in 1969), I know that every researcher organizes its own catalog according to his/her necessities, interests and objectives. It is totally impossible to try to think that all catalogs might converge into a unique one. _But_, (this is something we are doing now in Spain), organizations and individual researchers managing catalogs and databases should agree in a common, separate catalog where we all enter our data. It would be a catalog different from the ones we work with every day. The purpose would be to have a simple recording, a basic index of UFO and IFO reports. The data to be included should be few but evident, amongst them: date, time, location, name of witness, type of report, explanation (if there is one), and reference. Perhaps some other columns (yet I suggest not too many ones, otherwise most may be blank). To be successful in this goal, I suggest to keep the catalog simple, just an Excel spreadsheet with a number of columns for basic data. A "wise persons commision" should be created to design the catalog. Once finished, its structure should be communicated to the ufological community to start the collecting data process. More voices, please (and try to be constructive!) V-J
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 11 Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? - From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 17:14:07 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 17:23:32 -0500 Subject: Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? - >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 19:53:56 -0500 >Subject: Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? >>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 14:17:47 -0700 >>Subject: Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? ><snip> >>>I submit that it would be impossible for an alien race to become >>>"advanced" without some measure of curiosity. >>From the human perspective, I would agree. However, I'm not sure why >>there is any reason to believe that an alien race (and especially one >>that is so advanced that they can "fold" space and time, which is part >>of the original interview) would have any attributes that we could >>recognize. Is there any reason to believe that "curiosity" for an alien >>race would be similar to human "curiosity"? Our interpretation of >>events is filtered through our own understanding and beliefs, and I'm >>not sure that's a box that we can think out of. After all, anything we >>think of us "human" by definition. >As I mentioned in my previous post, this is really philosophical in >nature, and this probably isn't the appropriate forum. Two points I would likem to make here: I don't think that Kaku or any of the others in that Interstellar Travel Panel were looking at travel in the local neighborhood, within perhaps 50 light years, nor were they familiar with work that has been done on nuclear fission and nuclear fusion rockets.They seemed much more into charismatic theroretical physics handwaving about multiple dimensions , warping space and time, etc. They weren't looking at huge motherships and small Earth Excursion Modules. It seems to me that what drives all advanced civilizations is not so much curiosity but concern with survivial and security. That means keeping tabs on the primitives in the neighborhood, but only close tabs on those primitives who show signs of being able to bother fairly soon. At the end of WW 2 it was perfectly obvious to any alien visitors that soon this primitive society whos major activity was obviously tribal warfare would be able to to bother them within 100 or so years. The 3 forerunners were nuclear weapons, V-2 rockets, and electronics (radar etc).The only place on earth where all could be studied in July, 1947, was Southeastern New Mexico. We demonstrated our overall tendencies by destroying 1700 cities and killing 50 Million earthlings. Today we are spending almost $900 billion per year on things military while 30,000 children die each day from preventable disease and starvation. Some civilization. Though one of my papers lists 26 reasons for coming here, I think the best is to quarantine us so that we can't take our brand of friendship (Hostility) out there until we get our act together. We would be of concern to all other civilizations in the local neighborhood.There are 46 sun like stars within 54 light years. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 11 Re: Stan Romanek Case - Kelly From: Jim Kelly <Azredant@aol.com> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 16:26:55 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 17:25:36 -0500 Subject: Re: Stan Romanek Case - Kelly >From: Jim Cash <jcash@outgun.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 13:31:29 +0800 >Subject: Re: Stan Romanek Case >>From: Jim Kelly <Azredant@aol.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 23:34:54 EST >>Subject: Stan Romanek Case <snip> >Jim Kelly >MUFON AZ >>I have read the article in UFO Magazine about Stan Romanek. I >>have also been following his case very closely. >>This case is amazing, but I have some questions directed at >>MUFON. >>Is it true that, while undergoing a regression, Stan wrote down >>some equations that he said were given to him when he was >>abducted? >>I was told that this is some new kind of math that explained how >>to jump space? Wow! Why is it being kept secret? I also heard >>that Stan has a learning disability; which would make this even >>more amazing. >>So, if this is all true, why is MUFON not saying anything? >>Jim Cash >>jcash@outgun.com Dear Jim, List This case first appeared in the October 2002 issue of the Mufon Journal, then went live on the Bell program, I think in November, but I could be wrong about the month, but Zeiler was interviewed by Art Bell and said that this case might take up to a year to investigate mainly due to the numerous witnesses and other trace evidence involved. In looking at the Journal article, Romanek was regressed, and that session will be written about in a future Journal article by consultant Deborah Linderman. I saw a short video clip that was provided to Bell and it was on his website for months. What really struck me was the amount of witnesses pointing up into the sky as the strobing object moved above Romanek's vehicle. If this case is a hoax, it appears to be an elaborate one. George Zeiler reported that there could be well over a hundred witnesses' to this event. I can't confirm any information about "jumping space" element or his supposed "learning disability" but will keep everyone informed when I find out the details. Hope this helps, Jim Kelly MUFON- AZ
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 11 Re: World Exclusive From UFO Magazine UK - Fleming From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 15:29:28 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 17:27:45 -0500 Subject: Re: World Exclusive From UFO Magazine UK - Fleming >From: Mark Doulton <doults@tiscali.co.uk> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 23:55:58 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) >Subject: World Exclusive From UFO Magazine UK <snip> >----- >From: Graham W. Birdsall Editor UFO Magazine UK >Date: 07 January 2003 17:53:50 >To: Administrator >Subject: WORLD EXCLUSIVE FROM UFO MAGAZINE UK >Euroseti To Reveal Startling Ufo Images At The National Space >Centre! <snip> >NASA initially tried to explain the images away as pixel faults, >passing meteors or asteroids, etc., but when a European-led >consortium presented them with images that clearly were none of >the aforementioned, they 'clamped up'. >On Tuesday, 7 January 2003, Mr. Mike Murray, one of the founders >of EUROSETI, visited the offices of UFO Magazine to conduct a >WORLD EXCLUSIVE filmed interview. With his kind permission, that >interview - which features a healthy selection of these images - >can now be viewed on our website. >www.ufomag.co.uk/euroseti.htm Anyone arguing that SOHO images show anomalous objects should be prepared to answer why they don't fall into one of the three categories of "common mistakes" in image interpretation discussed on this web page: http://sungrazer.nascom.nasa.gov/cometform.html The categories cited are pixel "bleed through," debris (both from the spacecraft and from meteoroids impacts) floating by the camera lens, and cosmic rays. I'm especially suspicious of "UFOs" that have the power to align themselves so precisely with the vertical and horizontal axes of a SOHO image. Protrusions from objects that are aligned with an image axis are almost certainly due to pixel bleed-through. A SOHO image of several planets shown on the NASA web page illustrates this effect. Of course, that doesn't explain the object causing the bleed through, but it does mean that some of the seemingly "classic" flying saucer shapes are most probably image artifacts. The horizontal protrusions need to be erased to see the true shape of such objects, assuming they're really solid objects. A few of the Euroseti images, however, showed objects not aligned with image axes and seemed to be too big to be cosmic ray traces. Debris particles might be a plausible explanation for some of them. There's a set of examples of debris images at this page: http://lasco-www.nrl.navy.mil/debris.html I did watch the Euroseti video clip. Despite the above stated reservations, I thought some of the sample images shown were interesting and might be anomalies not readily explained as debris, cosmic rays, or pixel bleed-through. But I think it's far from a foregone conclusion that that proposition will withstand healthy skepticism from what I've seen so far.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 11 Re: Corso - Gates From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 16:30:26 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 17:31:25 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Gates >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 09:52:13 -0800 >Subject: Re: Corso >>From: Colin Bennett <sharkley@panzerben.fsworld.co.uk> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 22:50:36 -0000 >>Subject: Re: Corso <snip> >Uncertainty is acceptable. *The Day After Roswell* and the myth >it generates needs some serious discussion and contemplation. >That's impossible on this list where a majority of well known >and respected UFO researchers imply that Corso was a liar and >the book is nothing but a compilation of historical >inaccuracies, lies and more lies. How many folks have put off As I recall well known UFO researchers have maintained (not implied) that Corso was a liar... not to mention Corso supporters who will admit that there are various problems with the book >buying a copy because they think that somehow the questions have >all been answered and the issues all resolved. Its a crock! <snip> >If person's work and information is dismissed because he is >accused of being a liar, the metaphysical issues can be put on >the back burner and practical means can be used to provide >credibility. A polygraph or VSA can be used to establish a >person's veracity. When a person tells a fantastic story to an >investigator and the truthfulness of the story is important to >the investigation, then I see nothing wrong with asking for a >polygraph or VSA. A friend of mine was accused of being a >government agent and bomber; he thought it would blow over but >it really began to interfere with his work. He took a polygraph >and cleared his name. In the bigger picture of things, Polygraphs and VSA should not be totallyr relied upon because of the state of the individual mind when the poly or voice was recorded, and the interpretation of the examiner. >>Perhaps we should have measured Kaufman's blood-sugar, or >>Corso's faeces? >Corso isn't around to defend himself and his story is important >so if B-FA could work, I'm all for it. Corso didn't really attempt to defend himself while he was alive, unless you consider him claiming when Birnes wrote the book all these problems came in, and Birnes claiming that it was accurate to what Corso said. >>If you don't mind me saying so folks, this is hilarious, >>somewhat behaviourist, and not a little fascist if it were not >>so funny. >>Often in this List is the recommendation that a >>Ufological institution be formed to carry out peer-reviews of >>experiences, sightings, books and claims. Should deviants be >>dealt like prisoners and patients? Has not Jan read any book >>about such official psycho-medical attitudes over the past fifty >>years? As Thomas Szaz pointed out, we tend to make social and >>intellectual non-conformists into sick people, witness Tim >>Leary, and cloudbuster Reich. >Now you've really gone and done it! How could you? You mentioned >Reich and Richard Hall in the same post. That's not allowed. >Reich is a liar too. And a very bad person, by Richard's >reckoning. >>Corso and Kauffman bless them were >>both heading for that treatment before they died, mishandled by >>pot-brained input=output Pavlovian rationalists. Perhaps we >>should apply Skinner Boxes, ECT, pre-frontal lobotomy to >>abductees and men who claim to have met Venusians until we get >>the answers we like, that is answers we can manage most easily, >>and live with most comfortably. Big Brother sign: ONLY THE >>HEALTHY ARE REAL. Finally, what we test is our own deep-rooted >>fear that a truly fantastic reality may well be in place, and an >>even more fantastic reality in place on top of that. When we >>imagine, we create a form of life. >Yes I understand what you're saying. We'll just have to continue >this discussion Kaufman was and is now proven to be a story teller who provided bogus documents. Kaufman's widow should be commended for permitting the truth to be told, no matter how painful it may have been for her. Corso also told stories that even his supporters admit have various problems. As yet the basic tenant of Corso's book, that the Army seeded Roswell/ET technology into the private sector cannot be verified or proven beyond saying "Phil said." >Thank you and post modernism. I knew there must be some way out >of here! >>Postmodern thinking has >>provided a means by which books such as that by Corso can be >>evaluated without getting bogged down in whether the author told >>fibs or not. We can regard The Day After Roswell not as a tale >>told by an idiot full of sound and fury signifying nothing, but So called post modern thinking appears to be "don't bother me with the facts because the story is more interesting." Or said in another way we will accept mis representations, lies and falsehoods if we happen to like the story that is being spun. Reminds me of all the folks who gulliably lapped up the tales being told about an alleged mass ET landing in the desert SW on April 24th 1997, and the story told through another UFO researchers about ET landing on an Arizona Mountain top in Dec of 2000. Never mind the storys turned out to be totally bogus, never mind they were wrong, people apparently in postmodern induced thinking lapped them up hook, line and sinker because they liked the stories being told. <snip> >The above is well written and thoughtful; Col Corso's >reputation needs all the help it can get even if it's "only >a lantern on the stern". Lt Col Corso's reputation was already damaged... by Corso himself. Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 11 Re: Corso - Friedman From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 17:43:13 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 17:35:35 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Friedman >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 16:27:57 EST >Subject: Re: Corso >>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 09:52:13 -0800 >>Subject: Re: Corso <snip> >>Uncertainty is acceptable. *The Day After Roswell* and the myth >>it generates needs some serious discussion and contemplation. >>That's impossible on this list where a majority of well known >>and respected UFO researchers imply that Corso was a liar and >>the book is nothing but a compilation of historical >>inaccuracies, lies and more lies. How many folks have put off >>buying a copy because they think that somehow the questions have >>all been answered and the issues all resolved. Its a crock! >Ed, List, All - >I would like to point out that I have never implied that >Lieutenant Colonel Philip Corso is a liar. I have stated it flat >out, from lying about his rank, to lying about how he saw the >alien bodies, to the misrepresentations of his positions in the >Army. I have even seen a piece of video tape where Corso claims >to have been the commander at White Sands Missile Range. >So, Ed, in the future please do not say I have implied that >Corso is a liar. Thank you. Two other examples of flat-out lies by Corso: 1. He signed a sworn statement for Attorney Peter Gersten claiming that he had been a member of the National Security Council. This is, by the way, a statutory body. I sent Peter a copy of the statement from the Eisenhower Library saying Corso was never a member and never attended a meeting of the NSC. Peter showed this statement to Corso and asked if he wanted to change that part of the sworn statement. Corso answered no. Sort of compounding the felony. 2. Corso talked about introducing the Integrated circuit into industry. The Nobel Prize for Physics for 2000 was awarded to Jack S. Kilby, who invented the integrated circuit while working for Texas Instruments in 1958 at least 2 years before Corso's short tenure at the Army FTD. Incidentally, Birnes admitted to me that he wrote the material about Roswell because he thought the public didn't know enough about Roswell. Birnes knew a lot because he was apparently agenting a book about Roswell for Bill Moore and Jaime Shandera. Did Corso lie? YES. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 11 Re: Corso - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 22:45:11 +0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 18:21:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Hall >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 10:54:45 -0800 >Subject: Re: Corso >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 23:04:54 +0000 >>Subject: Re: Corso >>If you say, "nothing," then you are being consistent. Then, when >>Ed Gehrman (or anyone else) says that we should believe Corso, >>what is that based on? >Richard, >I don't tell folks that we should believe Corso. I believe Corso! >and don't believe he should be dismissed as a liar.\ Ed, Please answer my question. _Why_ do you believe him and on what basis, given all the clear-cut facts about his mendacity? >Others should at least read what he says and then decide for >themselves. This discussion began when Laurel asked an innocent >question about Corso and some of you gave the impression that >Corso had been dealt with and there was no need for her to waste >time on such matters. >I thought that was a little too much so I offered my evidence >which makes a point to show that the Corso was a historical fact >and that he did do the things he said he did during the late >fifties and early sixties. How can you possibly justify this statement? He lied and embellished many or most of his activities during this period. He clearly did not do many of the things he claimed to do. >He worked for Russell and Thurmond and was respected by both. Then why did Thurmond state unequivocally that he was conned into writing a favorable foreword thinking it was purely about Corso's military career, not about his extravagent claims to have saved the world from alien interlopers? >He was an intelligence player and this can't be discounted or >dismissed. We know he worked with Gen. Trudeau, that they were >friends, and that the General had Corso by his side during later >interviews and during Senate hearings on the MIA and the U-2 >incident. Ho-hum! I know and know of all sorts of "intelligence players" who are some of the least credible people who dump their opinions on us. >So as long as we're setting the record straight: I don't want >folks to believe. I want them to open their minds to the >possibility that Corso's revelations are legitimate. And I want >everyone to read 'The Day After Roswell'. Let anyone who wants to read it, the more historically and militarily informed the better, and let the chips fall where they may. But let's not pretend that you somehow have some superior avenue to truth. Once again, what are your criteria for establishing truth? - Dick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 12 Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer - Myers From: Royce J. Myers III - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 15:24:23 -0800 Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 10:25:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer - Myers >From: Grant Cameron <presidentialufo@presidency.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 20:58:54 -0500 >Subject: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer >A weird one! >Read the bizarre story and see pictures of the "pole deer" found >in Manitoba, Canada, and the "tree deer" found in New York >State. >http://presidentialufo.com/newpage2.htm >Then read an update story looking at a hoax to explain the wild >circumstances. >www.presidentialufo.com/pole_deer_hoax.htm The tree deer is anything but weird. As far as I'm concerned, and based on some common sense, the New York case has a plausible and, don't be too disappointed folks, human explanation to it though some are trying to make out to be much more than that... http://www.ufowatchdog.com/howe.html Regards, Royce J. Myers III UFOWATCHDOG.COM "Don't Trip On Your Open Mind"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 12 Re: Daily Mail Article On Alien Abductions - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 20:23:53 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 10:33:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Daily Mail Article On Alien Abductions - Ledger >From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 20:19:35 -0000 >Subject: Re: Daily Mail Article On Alien Abductions >>From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 14:24:37 -0000 >>Subject: Daily Mail Article On Alien Abductions >>The article also covers UFOs more generally, focusing on >>Georgina Bruni's work with Lord Hill-Norton and the subsequent >>release of various Ministry of Defence documents on UFOs. >Georgina or yourself might also explain how it is that Hill- >Norton gets the credit for releasing the Churchill memo. As >anyone who was around at the time can confirm, Churchill's >memo was released at the PRO in the mid-1980s under the >30 year rule. Hi Dave, Why were they being restrained by the 30 year order in the first place? Was it a typical kneejerk military thing, a typical bureaucratic kneejerk thing or were they concerned for the citizenry? It always puzzles me why governments while denying there is anything to the phenomenon continually hide the documents about it. And I'm not buying the protection of their resources and intelligence networks or paraphenalia as a reason either. It never proves out. Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 12 Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? - From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 19:55:38 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 10:42:08 -0500 Subject: Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? - >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 17:14:07 -0400 >Subject: Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? >Two points I would like to make here: >I don't think that Kaku or any of the others in that >Interstellar Travel Panel were looking at travel in the local >neighborhood, within perhaps 50 light years, nor were they >familiar with work that has been done on nuclear fission and >nuclear fusion rockets. They seemed much more into charismatic >theoretical physics hand waving about multiple dimensions , >warping space and time, etc. They weren't looking at huge >motherships and small Earth Excursion Modules. Certainly a valid point, and I'd be very careful not to attribute Kaku's comments with all of those on the panel. I think that given physics as we currently understand it, there would be no way to travel lightyears (even within the local neighborhood) in a reasonable length of time without the ability to "fold" space in some way. We can speculate with regard to faster than light travel, but it becomes very difficult to fit that into our current understanding of the physical universe. On the other hand, I'd be the first to admit that our understanding is very limited. Kaku proposed that the amount of energy required to "fold" space and travel from here to there, without actually have to go the distance (so to speak), would require an energy level that would likely exceed the energy output of the Sun. Of course, these concepts fit neatly into the theoretical physics that Kaku has proposed, and the validity of those proposals has yet to be tested. >It seems to me that what drives all advanced civilizations is >not so much curiosity but concern with survivial and security. >That means keeping tabs on the primitives in the neighborhood, >but only close tabs on those primitives who show signs of being >able to bother fairly soon. At the end of WW 2 it was perfectly >obvious to any alien visitors that soon this primitive society >whose major activity was obviously tribal warfare would be able >to to bother them within 100 or so years. The 3 forerunners were >nuclear weapons, V-2 rockets, and electronics (radar etc).The >only place on earth where all could be studied in July, 1947, >was Southeastern New Mexico. We demonstrated our overall >tendencies by destroying 1700 cities and killing 50 Million >earthlings. Today we are spending almost $900 billion per year >on things military while 30,000 children die each day from >preventable disease and starvation. Some civilization. I would agree with this assessment. However, I'm not sure that an alien race that could generate and control the energy output of Sun's would have too much to fear from anything that we might create given our current level of technology. To a certain degree we're caught in a paradox of sorts. On the one hand we have unknown objects that appear to be intelligently controlled craft, if we can accept empirical evidence. On the other hand, we have defined a physical universe that by our "human" definition cannot be reached. Before I get crucified by the masses on this List, let me add that I'm not discounting the mystery that we have before us. Basic emotions (or needs), such as curiosity, fear and survival, may well have some universal meaning for all life. But our "human" need to define our mortal position (and purpose) in the universe should not become a factor in our analysis of the limited evidence we have. To a degree, I find it self-serving to attribute "human" purposes to the "visitors" before we really can define what, or who, the "visitors" are. We can speculate as to what they appear to be, based on our "human" experiences, but that doesn't necessarily translate into fact. I think I need to quit before Errol cuts me off..... <G> Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 12 Preserving The Marcelian Revelation On Roswell From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 21:50:00 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 10:52:13 -0500 Subject: Preserving The Marcelian Revelation On Roswell Preserving the Marcelian Revelation on Roswell By Larry W. Bryant "Sixty years is long enough for the public's right-to-know to be held hostage to the government's stranglehold on UFOtruth!" - Larry W. Bryant During a recent visit to the public reading room of the National Security Archive, I made a serendipitous discovery, which now becomes the topic of this essay. Housed at the main library of the George Washington University in Washington, D.C., the NS Archive operates as a privately funded research institute for collecting and publishing declassified government documents obtained mainly via the U. S. Freedom of Information Act. See its website at: http://www.nsarchive.org My visit came at the urging of German UFOlogist Lars Bramer, who'd learned that the Archive possesses some as-yet- unpublicized UFO-related records of likely interest to me and to other specialists in the politics of Ufology. After a staff member confirmed the records' existence, I made an appointment to inspect them. As it turns out, we're talking here about only two file boxes' worth of material (which had to be ordered from an off-site repository because of severely limited space in the reading room). One of the boxes (half-filled) turned out to be a collection of FOIA-acquired correspondence, as donated by UFO lobbyist Stephen Bassett. The Archive's inventory sheet describes the contents as follows: "These documents are apparently the result of FOIA requests to the Office of Science and Technology Policy of the Clinton White House. Much of the collection consists of correspondence concerning private citizens' requests for information on the incident in Roswell, New Mexico, in 1947; and subsequent written responses to these requests. Included are letters from Members of Congress with similar requests for information. Also included are various news articles and papers written by private researchers. Only a small number of government documents are included." Since I already had seen some of Box No. 1's contents (via another source), I quickly moved on to the second box. In the very first folder to which I came, I noticed a familiar line of typewritten words across the top of a page. "That's from MY old Royal manual typewriter!" I quietly exclaimed. Indeed, the page in question turned out to be part of a photo-copied magazine article that I'd mailed to interested parties back in the eighties. These persons included one Gus Russo, a Baltimore- based producer for the Public Broadcasting System's "Frontline" TV program. Most likely, Russo had passed along some of my UFO- coverup material to PBS investigative reporter William Scott Malone, who eventually donated a boxload of UFOana to the Archive. The inventory-sheet description says: "Documents/materials related to Unidentified Flying Objects (UFOs). Topics include: UFOs and the U. S. government; Close Encounters in England, Mexico; Documents relating to Brigadier General Exon, Robert F. Kennedy, Marilyn Monroe, Senator Barry Goldwater; Roswell, N.M., UFO incident; Alien Autopsy." Unfortunately, time was running out that day for me to make a comprehensive review of Box No. 2's contents. A few of the documents did capture my attention enough to warrant a revisit. Meanwhile, I managed to photo-copy a couple of promising items, one of which I share with you now. It consists of the multipage transcript of notes taken by reporter Bob Pratt during his Dec. 8, 1979, interview of the late, former Army major Jesse A. Marcel, Sr., at the latter's home in Louisiana. Pratt's cover letter of March 16, 1994, by which he forwards a copy of the transcript to another researcher, notes that "[I] found [Marcel] to be a very impressive man and quite believable." After summarizing the former combat pilot's illustrious, 8-year- long military tour of duty during and after World War II, Pratt cuts to the crash: "[Exact date of incident]: I don't remember the exact date. It was in July 1947. How it all started: I was in my office. I went to the Officers Club for lunch and was sitting having lunch when I got a call from the sheriff from Roswell. And he wanted to talk to me. He said, 'There's a man here, a rancher, who came to town to sell his wool. He'd just sheared his sheep, and he told me something that's weird and you ought to know about this.' And I said, 'Well, I'm all ears.' He said, 'This man's name is Brazel. He said he found something on his ranch that crashed, either the day before or a few days before, and he doesn't know what it is. He said this might be well worth your while to investigate this. I know you're the intelligence officer of the base.' "So, I said, 'Well, fine . . . where can I meet him?' He said, 'Well, he's going to leave here about 3:30 or 4 o'clock, but he's in my office now - if you want to come and talk to him now. He'll be here waiting for you.' "And he was, and he told me about it. Well, he got me interested, so I went back - I said, 'You wait here . . . I have to go back to the base.' So, I talked to my CO [commanding officer] about that - [as to] what was his advice. He said, 'My advice is you'd better get in that car.' He said, 'How much of that stuff is there there?' I said, 'Well, the way the man [Brazel] talks, quite a bit.' He said, 'Well, you have three CIC agents working for you.' [CIC?]: that's counterintelligence [Corps] agents. "See, my main job there was to clear the personnel through the Atomic Energy Commission to be stationed at that base, military personnel. I had five officers and about 20 enlisted typists working for me, with an office going like mine all the time. With those three CIC agents, they would do the investigtating. Whenever we had to investigate somebody, I gave that job to them, and they'd turn their reports in to my office and we'd write the reports. "Well, to come back to this: so, I talked to Colonel Blanchard [the CO], and he said, 'Take whatever you need with you, but go.' So, I got one of my agents, named Cavitt, who, incidentally, we've never been able to find since I don't know his first name. I didn't keep any paperwork on CIC agents; they didn't belong to me. So - but I had three of them. So, I took him. He drove a Jeep carry-all. I drove my staff car. And we took off cross country behind this pickup truck this rancher had. He didn't follow any roads going out. This was an 80- square-mile ranch, so he told me. It was big. "So, we spent the night there in that little shack of his, and the following morning we got up and took off. "He took us to that place, and we started picking up fragments, which was foreign to me. I'd never seen anything like that. I didn't know what we were picking up. I still don't know. As of this day, I still don't know what it was. And I brought as much of it back to the base as I could. And, well, some ingenious young GI thought he'd try to put a few pieces together and see if he could match some things. I don't think he ever matched two pieces. It was so fragmented. It was strewn over a wide area - I guess maybe three-quarters of a mile long and a few hundred feet wide. "So, we loaded up, and we came back to the base. In the meantime, we had an eager-beaver public relations officer; he found out about it. He calls AP about it. Then that's when it really hit the fan. I don't mind using that expression. I probably got telephone calls from everywhere. News reporters were trying to come in to talk to me, but I had nothing for them. I couldn't tell them anything. I didn't have anything to talk about. They wanted to see the stuff, which I couldn't show them. So, my CO, early the next morning, sent me to Carswell [AFB at Fort Worth, Texas] to stop over and talk to General Ramey. All the stuff in a B-29. My CO told me, 'Go ahead and fly it to Wright-Patterson air field in Ohio.' But when I got to Carswell, General Ramey wasn't there. But they had a lot of news reporters and a slew of microphones that wanted to interview me. But I couldn't say anything. I couldn't say anything until I talked to the general. I had to go under his orders, and he said [chuckles], 'Well, just don't say anything.' So I said, 'General, Colonel Blanchard told me to get this stuff to Wright- Patterson.' And he said, 'You leave it right here, we'll take care of it from here.' And that was the end of it; that was the end of my part in it. I still don't know what I picked up. [Did they keep the B-29?] No, no, it [the material] was transferred to a transport. The general told me, 'You go back to Roswell. You're more needed there.' He said, 'You've got a big job there. What you're doing is important. This, there'll be nothing.'" Q: Rancher's name? A: Brazel. Don't know first name. Q: Where in relation to Roswell, this ranch? A: North of the test sites and, I would say, 60 miles northwest of Roswell. Q: Sheriff's name? A: I don't recall it right now. He was sheriff of the county Roswell was in? Q: Rancher ['s specialty]? A: Cattle and sheep. Q: The next morning, he took you out to this place? A: Yes. In fact, he saddled two horses [laughs]. I never rode a horse in my life. And I said, "You two ride the horses." Cavitt was an old - he was from west Texas, was at home on a horse. So, they took off. We went up there, and we loaded up all this stuff in the carry-all; and we got through kind of late. But I wasn't satisfied. I went back. I told Cavitt, "You drive this vehicle back to the base, and I'll go back out there and pick up as much as I can put into the car." Q: Terrain? A: Very flat. It's very arid. You had tumbleweeds. It was adequate for a sheep ranch, for grazing. I didn't pay too much attention to that because my interest went another way. Q: When you got out there, what did you actually see - bits of metal or what? A: I saw - well, we found some metal, small bits of metal; but mostly we found some material that was hard to describe. I'd never seen anything like that; and I still don't know what it was. We picked it up anyway. One thing, one thing - . . . . Q: It was something manufactured? A: Oh, it definitely was. But one thing I do remember. I recall that very distinctly. I wanted to see some of this stuff burn, but all I had was a cigarette lighter, since I had been a heavy smoker. Anyway, I lit the cigarette lighter to some of this stuff and it didn't burn. Q: Any markings? A: Yes, there were. Something undecipherable. I've never seen anything like that myself. Oh, I call them hieroglyphics myself. I don't know whether they were hieroglyphics or not. [Some markings, though?] Oh, yes, [on] little members, small members - solid members that you could not bend or break. But it didn't look like metal; it looked more like [illegible]. Q: How big? A: They varied in size. They were, as I can recall, perhaps three-eighths of an inch by [illegible] of an inch thick, and just about all sizes. None of them were very long. [Biggest?]; I would say about three or four feet. [Heavy?]; weight was light [illegible] . . . it in your hand just like you handle balsa wood. Q: Piece three or four feet long; was it wide or what? A: Oh, no, it was a solid member; rectangular members, just like you get a square stick [drew sketch] . . . varied lengths, and along the length of some of these they had little markings, two- color markings as I can recall - like Chinese writing to me; nothing you could make any sense out of. Q: Everything in this shape, long and slender? A: All the solid members were that way. There was other stuff there that looked very much like parchment, that again didn't burn. Obviously - I surmise, I'm not - I was acquainted with just about every method of weather observation devices used by the military, and I couldn't recognize any of that as being [illegible]. Q: You've been flying since 1928; this was 20 years. Was this part of any aircraft that you recognize? A: No, it could not have been part of an aircraft. Q: Not part of any kind of weather balloon or experimental balloon? A: I couldn't see that it could be, no. For one thing, if it had been a balloon, like the parts that we picked up, it would not have been porous. It was porous. Q: Any jagged or broken? A: No. As far as I can recall, they were clean. See, I had so little time to spend with this, I had other duties to perform. I brought the stuff over here, my CO saw it, my staff saw it. And then, the following day, my CO told me to take it to Wright- Patterson [why there?] for analysis. They wanted to see what it was. [What was the agency at Wright?]; Air Force analysis laboratories, I think. [How many pieces?]; it might have been hundreds. I don't recall. It's been so long since I handled all this stuff. I'd just about dismissed the whole thing from my mind. Q: When you went out there that morning, you could see this stuff scattered for quite a ways in the distance? A: Lord, yes, about as far as you could see. Three-quarters of a mile long and 200 to 300 feet wide. I tell you what I surmised. One thing I did notice: nothing actually hit the ground, bounced on the ground. It was something that must have exploded above ground and fell. And I learned later that, farther west, towards Carrizozo, they found something like that too. That I don't know anything about . . . the same period of time - 60 to 80 miles west of there. Q: Ranchers found something similar out there? A: I think it was discovered by some surveyor out there. Q: Did you pick up all the parts? A: We did not cover the entire area. Picked up as much as we could carry, and some was left there . . . [grouped or bunched together or scattered?]; scattered all over, just like you'd explode something above the ground and just fall to the ground. One thing I was impressed with was that it was obvious you could just about determine which direction it came from and which direction it was heading. It was traveling from northeast to southwest; it was in that pattern. You could tell where it started and where it ended by how it thinned out. Although I did not cover the entire area this stuff was in, I could tell that it was thicker where we first started looking and it was thinning out as we went southwest. Q: Shortest pieces? A: Four or five inches. It was something of some greater area that had been together. [Clean breaks or obvious breaks?]; I don't recall that. Nothing seemed torn. It's pretty difficult to assimilate in your own mind just what it was because I wasn't with it that long. It's like you handle a hot potato - you want to get rid of it. Q: Had the rancher been in that area recently before finding this? A: I faintly remember he told me he had heard an explosion at night and the following day he went out there in that direction and he saw that stuff. Q: We didn't have satellites in 1947. A: No. Q: Missiles, though, didn't we? A: Oh, yes [this obviously was no rocket?]; oh, no, unh-unh. I've seen rockets sent up at the White Sands Testing Grounds. It definitely was not part of an aircraft nor a missile or rocket. Q: Strange, isn't it? A: Yes, it is. It's bewildering. The one thing that I kept wondering: why no publicity was given about that by the Air Force. They probably got something they wanted to sit on - that's my opinion. There had been a lot of reports about flying saucers in that area. In fact, I'm not sure - I wouldn't swear to this, but one night about 11:30 - I lived in town - the provost marshal called me and said, "You'd better come out here in a hurry." He wouldn't elaborate on the telephone what it was. So, I got in my car and put my foot on the accelerator and going as fast as I could go; and it was a straight road. Something caught my attention. It was a formation of lights moving from north to south. But it was so - I mean, we had nothing that traveled that fast anyway. I knew that. We had no aircraft that traveled at that speed, because it was visible only maybe three or four seconds from overhead to the horizon; they were bright lights flying a perfect "V" formation. And I hesitated to open my mouth about that because I knew nobody would believe me. But two or three days later some GI said, "I saw something in the skies the other night"; and he described exactly what I'd seen [before this incident?]; just slightly before. Anyway, I figure there's some credence to this UFO business. I believe in it. Even my son, Jesse, one afternoon - he has two little boys and a girl and the boys were with him - he was going into town and - they live on a little crooked road up the side of a mountain; and one of the boys said, "Dad, Look at that!" My son stopped the car and looked up there and he saw a shiny circular object that all of a sudden took off like nobody's business. [Cavitt's jeep carry-all?]; it's slightly larger than a pickup truck with a covered body. And we loaded the back end of that up with material and then I went back and loaded my car up. [And there was a lot left?]; oh, Lord yes. Yes, we picked up a very minor portion of it. Q: You put all this on the B-29 and were going to take all the material to Wright? A: All we had. Q: And you never heard back anything more from General Ramey or..... A: Nothing at all [or Wright field?]; nothing at all. Q: Do you know if Blanchard did? A: That I wouldn't know. I rather doubt that he did, because if he had heard something about it he would have told me; and he never mentioned anything. Q: How long did you stay at Roswell after that? A: . . . latter part of 1947 [where did you go?]; transferred to Washington, D. C. I was given an office with a title about that long [had arms apart]. I was in the Selective Service Building next to the State House on E Street. Q: What do you think this thing was? A: Well, as far as I know, or can surmise, it - I was pretty acquainted with most of the things that were in the air at the time, not only from my own military aircraft but also in a lot of foreign countries'. And I still believe it was nothing that came from Earth. It came TO Earth, but not FROM Earth. The biggest mistake I ever made - of course, I couldn't - was not to keep a piece of it. But in all fairness to my work and the service, I couldn't. Q: Were you ever told not to talk about this? A: You don't have to be told. You just know. I couldn't jeopardize my part of the service and be criticized for what I said. Q: The P.R. man called AP, etc..... The idea was that a flying saucer had crashed? A: I don't know. I didn't talk to him or read what he said. I've heard contradicting reports on this. I had heard this P.R. man had called the press without consulting the CO; and later I heard that the CO had authorized him to do that. But I haven't verified that . . . . [LWB Note: Pratt's inquiry into Marcel's technical knowledge, experience, and formal education includes this bit of irony: the war hero had found time to attend the George Washington University - the very site where this interview is being preserved for posterity.]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 12 Italian UFO Newsflash No. 380 From: Edoardo Russo <edoardo.russo@tiscali.it> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 14:55:35 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 11:09:04 -0500 Subject: Italian UFO Newsflash No. 380 ITALIAN UFO NEWSFLASH ISSUE NO. 380 - 3 JANUARY 2003 by the Italian Center for UFO Studies (Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici, CISU) Contents: - UFO News Stories Hit A Low In 2002 - Crop Circles: New Videos On Newsstands - Raelians & Clonings... an Appreciation - Chased By Martians Causes A Car Accident - Trash Cinema: Award of CISU Prize UFO NEWS STORIES HIT A LOW IN 2002 News reports related to the UFO argument and published in Italian newspapers in 2002 reached the lowest point for the last decade. The number of articles on UFOs appearing in dailies and other periodicals in Italy, as gathered systematically by the specialized service "L'Eco della Stampa" (Press Echo) for the Italian Center for UFO Studies (CISU) came in at a total of 591 during the year just ended. It was the first time, since 1990, that the annual total fell below the 600 items. In fact, the yearly average for the last decade totaled 955 stories, with a maximum peak of over 1,800 news items published in 1997. It's worth noting that the number of UFO sightings in Italy had a totally independent behavior, exactly opposed to the treatment given by mass media to the subject: this contradicts the old- fashioned belief that UFO sightings are supposedly more frequent the more they are reported in newspapers. On the contrary, the richest years of the last decade for sighting reports in Italy were precisely those (i.e., 2001 and 2002) where the number of press reports fell below the average. The month-by-month statistics on UFO press clippings and on filed UFO sightings are available at the CISU Website (www.cisu.org). [Communication by Gian Paolo Grassino] CROP CIRCLES: NEW VIDEOS ON NEWSSTANDS Still on the heels of the film "Signs", which linked the circular traces in fields with the arrival of alien creatures, the appearance of related books has also been followed by video- documentaries. Appearing on newsstands, as a supplement to the mystery- archaeology periodical "Hera", is the videocassette "Crop Circles - Messages Between Heaven & Earth", produced by Adriano Forgione and Patrizia Bertolotti (52 minutes), together with a booklet of the same title (penned by Adriano Forgione and Alfredo Di Prinzio), comprising the bound collection of four articles published in the same monthly (144 pages), at a selling price of 15.90 Euro. Available in videostores, meanwhile, is the documentary "The Mystery of The Crop Circles", produced by Fabio Borzani, Mario Brevini and Stefano Giacomuzzi (whose Natrix Publications published the Haselhoff's book on the subject) and distributed by Cinehollywood. It runs 50 minutes and sells for 15.50 Euro (also available in DVD format). Finally, available for purchase by mail order and delivery only, there is the cassette "Crop Circles - Silent Knowledge", by Nikola Duper, which is distributed by the new age bimonthly "Nexus" for a cost of 17.50 Euro. RAELIANS & CLONINGS... AN APPRECIATION It was year-end news, and it was written about and discussed by the mass media worldwide, not to mention by countless personalities of science, culture, religion and politics: the Clonaid company, owned by the UFO sect of the Raelians, announced the birth of the first cloned baby. As a result, we have been hit in the last week by a barrage of interviews with the biologist and Clonaid spokesperson Brigitte Boisselier; with her daughter (whose uterus is offered on lending); and with various local representatives of the Raelian Movement, not to mention with the prophet Claude Vorilhon himself, aka "Rael". And, lest we forget, there were various stories and in-depth examinations centering on the genesis, the history and the beliefs of the Raelians themselves, not to mention (unfortunately) on their more-or-less direct connections with the UFO subject and with Ufology. It is not our intention to discuss the reliability of their claim, which - as a minimum result - has indeed took to an exceptionally successful promotional campaign on a worldwide scale for Raelians, which has been ranked among the emerging "new religions." Instead, we limit ourselves to reaffirming - as if still needed - the deep distance and difference which must be traced and kept between Ufology (meant as a study of UFO sightings) and these characters who build a veritable millennial (and profitable) cult. CHASED BY MARTIANS CAUSES A CAR ACCIDENT Still on the line of year-end para-ufological folklore, but on a decidedly "lighter" note, there also comes the news making the rounds of the mass media that a 42-year-old French motorist broke through a roadblock as a result of being "chased by Martians." The incident reportedly took place on Monday, 30 December, on A55 Highway, near Marseilles, where traffic police and firefighters had arrived and blocked the road following a tanker truck accident. Instead of stopping before the protection barriers, the man barreled through them, nearly crushing onto the safety personnel attending to the fire in progress. Thereafter, he continued hir run towards the town but was caught and arrested after a brief pursuit (also resulting in a minor accident). The driver defended himself by swearing that he had been "chased by Martians." Consequently, he was then admitted to a hospital for psychiatric and drug observation (once it had been verified that he was not drunk). [Reuters, 31 December; Ovni-Livre and Ovni-Sciences, 31 December; Il Nuovo, 1 January; UFO-Italia, 1 January; report by Alessandro Lu=E8] TRASH CINEMA: AWARD OF CISU PRIZE The short film "SHADO - The Last Planet" received the CISU Award for Best UFO Myth-Inspired Film, presented at the 7th Trash Cinema Festival. The award ceremonies were held last 22 December in Turin, and the winner received a plaque and a UFO-themed painting as his prize, which was awarded (for the second year) by the "UFOs & Cinema Project" of the Italian Center for UFO Studies (CISU). Special recognition was also bestowed upon the film "Garagioz", for its rich and specific references to real-life UFO sightings, while featuring an alien invasion in the small Italian town of Spilimbergo. [Collaboration by Fabrizio Dividi and Matteo Leone] Collaborators on this edition were: Fabrizio Dividi, Gian Paolo Grassino, Matteo Leone and Alessandro Lu=E8. - - - This is the English translation of UFOTEL, a free phone/Internet information service on UFOs edited weekly by Edoardo Russo for the Italian Center for UFO Studies (Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici), available in Italian by calling +39-011-545294, or by e-mail subscription, or on CISU website at http://www.arpnet.it/ufo/ultime.htm UFOTEL is a supplement to "UFO - Rivista di informazione ufologica", published by the Italian Center for UFO Studies, registered at Tribunale di Torino, No. 3670, on 19 June 1986. Director: Giovanni Settimo. Publisher: Cooperativa UPIAR, Corso Vittorio Emanuele 108, 10121 Turin, Italy Translated from Italian to English by: Gary J. Presto, Freelance IT-EN Translator/Proofreader 1123 Revere Beach Pky., # 12 Revere, MA 02151 USA Tel.: ++ 1.781.485.1683, Fax: ++ 1.781.485.1684 ICQ: 110502923, E-mail: gpresto@attbi.com Webpage: http://www.proz.com/translator/723 - - - (c) 2002 by: CISU, Corso Vittorio Emanuele 108, 10121 Torino, Italia This newsletter (as a whole or in part) may be freely copied, photocopied, reproduced, stored, distributed and retrieved, at the only condition that Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici is reported as the source. You may get it directly via e-mail by subscribing (just send a blank message to: cisuflash-subscribe@yahoogroups.com) The CISU is a no-profit association whose aims are: - to promote the scientific study of UFO phenomena in Italy; - to help circulate information about UFO phenomena and studies; - to coordinate national activities of data collecting and studying. You may reach Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici: - by mail: CISU, Corso Vittorio Emanuele 108, 10121 Torino, Italia - by phone: +39 (011) 30.78.63 (24 hours UFO Hotline) - by fax: +39 (011) 54.50.33 - by Internet e-mail: cisu@ufo.it - at the World Wide Web URL: http://www.cisu.org
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 12 London Daily Mail On 'Taken' From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 11:41:18 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 11:41:18 -0500 Subject: London Daily Mail On 'Taken' Source: The Daily Mail - London http://www.dailymail.co.uk/ Saturday, January 11, 2003 After 50 years of ridicule, denial and cover-up, is the real truth about alien abductions about to be revealed? by Geoffrey Wansell On a hot, sticky July afternoon in 1987 Jason Andrews is celebrating his fourth birthday at his family's cottage near Slade Green in Kent when the heavens open. As the thunder crashes all around, there is a single flash of lightning. Suddenly, a stream of numbers starts pouring out of Jason's mouth: fantastic numbers, complex mathematical equations, even algebra - all from a boy who struggles to count to ten. Seconds later the windows and doors begin to shake violently and the four-year old announces to his mother, father and elder brother: "They're waiting for me. I have to go.' Jason's father, Paul, grabs his son and stops him from walking out into the downpour, but the boy struggles violently, and as he does so the house shakes to its very foundations until, finally, he seems to wake from a trance and the shaking stops. It is the first sign that Jason Andrews is no ordinary little boy and, in the eight years that follow, that is dramatically confirmed. It wasn't until 1995, when he was almost 12, that Jason told his astonished parents exactly what had been happening to him - aliens had been abducting him from his bed at night. "It's always the light that comes first", he confessed to his mother, Ann. "Then I see the tall one rise up at the foot of the bed. Suddenly there's lots of little ones everywhere. They're fuzzy and indistinct, and they move very fast. I can't move or speak, but I'm awake and I can see and hear and feel. I want to scream and run, but the sound doesn't come out and my body doesn't move. I hate them. I hate them", the boy sobbed. "I have to go with them. They take me to an operating theatre, like at the hospital. It's all white and shiny Some times it's a circular room with It's always cold. They're there. The big one touches me but I don't feel it, like as if I've had an anaesthetic." Then he added poignantly: "But you don't believe me, you just think I'm making it all up." In fact, Ann did believe him, and went on to explore the phenomena affecting her son's life in a hook, Abducted. This decent, uncomplicated wife and mother came to the conclusion that we may not be alone. Now, the rest of the world may be about to agree with her After five decades of ridicule, official denials and alleged cover- ups, the possibility that aliens. may have visited Earth is beginning to be taken seriously - and not just by sci-fi fanatics and UFO freaks. Scientific researchers are increasingly convinced that thin, grey-skinned beings about 4ft tall, with large almond-shaped eyes set in an oval, hairless, head, may not only have landed on earth, but have also abducted human beings for bizarre experiments; while all the time there has been an official conspiracy to keep their visits secret. Tonight American filmmaker Steven Spielberg, the man who brought the world Close Encounters Of The Third Kind and ET, will bring those convictions - and aliens - to life in his new mini-series, Taken, on BBC2. A cunning mixture of. fact, conjecture and fiction, based on the latest research, it tells the story of how aliens affected the lives of three American families over the past half century. A massive hit in the U.S., where it was broadcast on consecutive nights last month, Spielberg's series is the most expensive TV science faction drama ever made - with a budget of more than =A325 million - and it's certain to re-ignite public debate on this forever-contentious subject. But surely all this talk of aliens is far-fetched? As a natural sceptic, I've always believed so, but over the past weeks and months of reviewing the evidence I've come to the conclusion that it does, in fact, warrant the closest investigation. There certainly seems to have been an official conspiracy to keep the facts secret. In the past few months, for example, firm evidence about unexplained events connected with Unidentified Flying Objects (UFOs) and extraterrestrial phenomena has begun to appear for the first time as governments around the world have released previously secret documents. And, for the first time, politicians have started to admit that evidence on the possibility of extraterrestrial life has been concealed. In October last year, for example, former White House Chief of Staff John Podesta, who worked for President Clinton, called on the U.S. government to de-classify "records that are more than 25 years old" and "to provide scientists with data that will assist them in determining the real nature of this phenomenon." Only four years ago, former Prime Minister Baroness Thatcher hinted to British UFO researcher Georgina Bruni that there was considerable secret information on the subject, adding mysteriously: "You can't tell the people." Bruni was so struck by the remark that she used it as the title for her 2001 book on alien sightings in Suffolk in 1980. Shortly afterwards, former Tory Secretary of State also confided to her on the subject: "I know a lot, but I tell a little." After a campaign by Bruni and other researchers, the Government last month released scores of secret files on UFO sightings in this country, all of which suggest that aliens can no longer be dismissed merely as the product of fevered imaginations. Certainly the majority of the public now seem to believe that aliens do exist. As the editor of the British UFO magazine, Graham Birdsall, points out: "Sixty years ago, 90 per cent of the population thought the idea was "absolute rubbish. Now every single opinion poll on the subject shows that millions of people firmly believe in UFOs." Last June, for example, when it was announced that Bonnybridge in Scotland boasted more UFO sightings than any other place in the world, a Sky News poll showed 65 per cent of its viewers believed in UFOs. Five years earlier - in one of the biggest telephone polls ever conducted on TV - 100,000 viewers phoned ITV to answer the question "Have aliens already visited Earth?" and 92 per cent voted "Yes." "There's strong evidence to suggest that Earth has been visited by extraterrestrial intelligence", insists Birdsall. "And after my own research I am prepared to admit that it is no longer possible to dismiss people such as Birdsall as 'cranks'." Spielberg, whose film Close Encounters Of The Third Kind dramatically raised the issue of alien encounters for a global audience, is certainly convinced they've happened. Fascinated by the possibility from childhood, he's devoted part of his life to discovering the truth and has become an authority on the subject as a result. But there is a striking difference between Spielberg's approach in his TV series Taken and the one he took two decades ago in ET. This time the aliens he is depicting are not trying to phone home they're here to subvert, and ultimately control, the human race. And the new TV series, his first since the award-winning Band Of Brothers, is not only about the arrival of aliens, it's also about 'alien abductions'. "I thought I couldn't do justice to this genre in a two-hour movie", Spielberg explains. "We would need a lot more time to do justice to the history of alien abductions, starting back in 1947, right through to today." Watching the first episodes, it's clear that Spielberg has done everything in his power to create a fictional series' on the edge of fact. This is no sci-fi comic book, no Invasion Of The Body Snatchers, but a compelling and all-too-plausible - drama. British UFO expert Mike Soper, of Contact International, is as convinced as Spielberg that alien abductions have happened. "The telling fact is that there are features common to all the people's stories", he maintains. "They all remember being taken to a craft, and often talk about being 'examined'..... "Many talk about something being 'implanted' in their bodies, and when they return they often have triangular marks on their bodies and aren't wearing exactly the same clothes they were before the abduction." Ministry of Defence civil servant Nick Pope, 37, agrees. "Abductions most definitely do occur", he says. "And although the phrase 'alien abductions' is a gift to those people who want to deride it, there are genuine, ordinary people who believe they have been in extraordinary situations." Pope isn't a man with an anorak and a slightly weird look in his eyes. He is a down-to-earth civil servant who had no interest in aliens at all until 1991, when the MOD asked him to investigate reports of UFOs, alien abductions and other strange phenomena. "The 100 or so people I interviewed about being abducted by aliens weren't publicity seekers merely after their fifteen minutes of fame", he explains. "I came to the conclusion that some of these people had to be telling the truth. And if just one of the abductees' reports is true, the implications for the human race would be profound and disturbing." One person who helped to convince Pope was 37 year old British - born make-up artist Bridget Grant, whom he met seven years ago. She addressed an audience of 750 people at the British UFO conference in Leeds in 2001, where she talked about her abduction. She explained that in February 1993, when she was living in Los Angeles; she was driving with a friend in the Brentwood area at 5.50pm one bright, sunny day when she drew up at a set of traffic lights. "I suddenly saw this silver tip out of the corner of my eye", she explained. "Then, I saw that it was a solid silver craft, with a red-orange colour underneath it, about 35 - 45 ft in diameter. It came right above the car and I leaned towards the steering wheel and looked up." The craft "flew really, really low" over her head, she said, and away to the west, Her friend Jane, sitting in the passenger seat, saw it, too. Grant was so disturbed by the experience that in September 1998 she went to see the American UFO researcher Budd Hopkins, of the Intruders Foundation in New York, to undergo four sessions of 'regressive hypnosis'..... She wanted his help to remember the exact details of what happened on that afternoon in 1993 because she thought she had forgotten something. It appeared that she had. For when this pale young 'woman, with shoulder length dark hair; addressed the Leeds audience she told them she'd not just seen the spacecraft but had been abducted by it, even though she thought she was in her car the entire time. "There is often a time shift element in the stories of abduction, where the individual doesn't realise that time. has passed", explains Nick Pope. "My hands were gripping the steering wheel", Grant explained to the conference. "But then I felt a pressure, like my body was being sucked. It felt like all the atoms of my body were going through the steering wheel. Then I saw this being. I was fascinated by its appearance - it was transparent, had white hair and was carrying a baby." Hard though it may be for some to believe, and Grant is reluctant to discuss the events further, there is no doubt that the artists' impression of the being which she said she saw looks uncannily like many of the other descriptions of aliens that have surfaced in recent years. However, as sceptics point out there have been so many depictions of 'space creatures' with dome heads and large oval eyes that it is hardly surprising that this has become something of a stereotype. When Spielberg was researching the aliens for Close Encounters, he held lengthy consultations with the veteran American astronomer Dr J. Allen Hynek - a once-fierce critic of UFOs and alien phenomena who changed his mind completely after he became a consultant on the subject for the United States Air Force. Hynek assembled the authoritative American dossier on alien encounters, Project Blue Book, and advised Spielberg what aliens looked like. But the idea that little grey - rather than green - men with elongated fingers, legs and neck, sounds incredibly far-fetched - until you talk to Georgina Bruni. "When I interviewed Lady Thatcher a few years ago,' Bruni explains, "I was describing to her the fact that US military personnel here in Britain had reportedly had contact with, aliens, and an alien spacecraft, in Rendlesham Forest in Suffolk in December 1980. I expected her to tell me that I'd been watching too many episodes of the X Files, But she didn't look shocked at all. She just said, twice: 'You can't tell the people.'" With Bruni's encouragement, in the wake of this conversation Lord Hill-Norton, a former Chief of the Defence Staff tabled 18 Parliamentary questions in the House of Lords - as a result of which the Government released more than 200 previously secret files concerning UFOs and aliens. One of the files revealed that then Prime Minister Sir Winston Churchill wanted the matter investigated in 1952. He sent a memo to his scientific adviser, Sir Henry Tizard, asking: "What does all this stuff about flying saucers amount to? What can it mean? What is the truth?" After several months, Tizard reported that all the sightings were "explicable by natural events", although shortly afterwards the Government explicitly banned RAF personnel from discussing sightings with anyone not from the military. The U.S. Government had adopted a similar policy of official secrecy five years earlier, in the wake of a spate of incidents near the US Air Force base at Roswell, New Mexico, in July 1949 - incidents that Spielberg uses as his starting point for his TV series. And so the modern history of UFOs, aliens and official coverups was born. British UFO researcher Jenny Randles, who has spent more than 20 years investigating UFO and alien phenomena, maintains that in more recent times alien kidnapping has become much more common, "An ever growing tide of people suspect that they may be alien abductees", she says. So is it fact or fiction? I'm not certain, but the evidence of witnesses such as Jason Andrews and Bridget Grant is hard to ignore. And it's clear that, as the 2lst century begins, opinions are changing. The Government announced recently that it was "open-minded' about the "existence or otherwise of extraterrestrial life forms' a markedly different official position from the one taken half a century ago. Perhaps the politicians are beginning to accept that we are not alone. Steven Spielberg certainly does.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 12 Re: Levengood Credentials - Speiser From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 20:50:54 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 11:44:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Levengood Credentials - Speiser >From: Dave Haith <visions@ntlworld.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 01:51:40 -0000 >Subject: Levengood Credentials >Following the correspondence below on UFO UpDates from Jim >Spieser (JJS) I emailed Nancy Talbott of the BLT Research Team >about Levengood and the controversy. >I reproduce her letter of reply to me below in its entirety with >her full permission in the hope that it will clarify this matter >once and for all. >Regards >Dave Haith Dear List: If I may be permitted to cross-post a response to this issue from Jim Delton, a colleague of mine here in Arizona (with his permission)... I respond with the words of others because I myself profess ignorance of the ways of the higher-ly educated, being only an AGND (Ain't Got No Degree). ==JJS== ----------- It just keeps getting stranger. In the snippet from JS's recent UpDate, reproduced below, it appears Levengood claimed that National Academy of Sciences only allows PhD's (or equivalents) to present papers at the NAS. That's news to me since I know several people who are not PhDs or "equivalents" that have in the past and will this coming January present papers at an NAS event, the annual Transportation Research Board meeting. I, a lowly BSE, am even a co-author of a peer-reviewed paper to be presented there (someone else is presenting it). The TRB does not require authors or presenters to have a PhD or "equivalent". You can see their home page here: http://nationalacademies.org/trb/ and note that it is one of the many sub areas of the dozens and dozens of areas covered by the NAS umbrella organization. Levengood may well have presented a paper at meeting of one of the many NAS sub-areas but I don't believe his claim that they only allowed him to do so because of some alleged "PhD equivalent" status is true. >At some point subsequently, a year or so later I think, it >occurred to me that I needed to understand exactly what this >equivalency was, and I phoned Levengood about it. He told me >that he had, many years ago, been asked to present a paper to >the National Academy of Science (NAS) and that, among the papers >they had sent him about this presentation, he was informed that >only people who had a PhD or who were "PhD-equivalent" could >present. Apparently because of the Ph.D level course-work >Levengood had completed and the number of his papers which had >already been published in respected, peer-reviewed scientific >journals, he was considered by them to be Ph.D-equivalent. I >knew that it was a considerable honor to present one's work to >the NAS, but I still wasn't absolutely clear as to just how I --------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 12 Re: Corso - The Final Analysis - Jones From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 09:28:45 +0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 11:47:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - The Final Analysis - Jones >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 00:46:56 EST >Subject: Corso - The Final Analysis <snip> >The bottom line is Corso tells an interesting story that has >various problems. At this point nobody can seem to come up with >any independently verifiable evidence that ET technology was >seeded to private industry when Corso claimed it was. So all we >have is 'Phil said.....'. Robert I think the reason why the Corso supporters wont give it up, is that it all sounds so _plausible_ I have often heard rumours that today's technology has been seeded, what's the term... "Modern Myth"? I think that the rate of technology improvements over the past fifty years, compared to the previous fifty years give some credence to accelerated growth, _but_ it can't _all_ have come from Roswell can it? Methinks the one hundred and forty plus alleged crashes from around the world would carry more weight to the theory if people weren't so blinkered by Roswell this and Roswell that. I also think most people reading this list would only think there have ever been two UFO's crashed, one in Roswell (US) and one in Bentwaters (UK) But I digress. The seeded theory/accelerated growth of technology _feels_ kinda OK, but there is no proof. Yours on a cold and frost winter morning. Sean -- In an infinite universe, infinitely anything is possible. Sean Jones http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 12 Re: Corso - Oplatka From: Laurel Oplatka <calabash2003@webtv.net> Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 04:31:52 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 23:07:22 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Oplatka To Ed and List: Yes (gulp!), it was I who opened this recent Corso thread and thank you very much, Ed, for your support and niceness. As a new List member at that time, I do admit that I was somewhat shocked and puzzled by some of the first responses I read on here - i.e. Corso should not be part of any serious discussion. As far as verification for Corso's claims, I just had a worrisome thought - what if ET, et al, won't allow Corso, Jr. to divulge any info/documentation? I find one of the most interesting and fascinating aspects of Corso's book to be his discussion of the EBE "headband" (p 97-99 & 109)... a subject I'll mention in a future post which may very well get me scorned off this List. Best Regards, Laurel
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 12 Re: Daily Mail Article On Alien Abductions - Harney From: John Harney <magonia@harneyj.freeserve.co.uk> Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 17:20:09 -0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 23:17:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Daily Mail Article On Alien Abductions - Harney >From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 20:19:35 -0000 >Subject: Re: Daily Mail Article On Alien Abductions >>From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 14:24:37 -0000 >>Subject: Daily Mail Article On Alien Abductions >>The article also covers UFOs more generally, focusing on >>Georgina Bruni's work with Lord Hill-Norton and the subsequent >>release of various Ministry of Defence documents on UFOs. >Hi Nick, >Possibly the most amusing section of the Daily Mail article is >the following: >"With Bruni's encouragement...Lord Hill-Norton, a former Chief >of the Defence staff, tabled 16 Parliamentary questions in the >House of Lords - as a result of which the Government released >more than 200 previously secret files concerning UFOs and >aliens...one of the files revealed that then Prime Minister >Winston Churchill wanted the matter investigated in 1952." >Drawing upon your detailed knowledge of MoD files, could you >explain to us *exactly* which "200 previously secret files >concerning UFOs and aliens" have been released as a *direct* >result of Hill-Norton's questions...names and class references >please. Listfolk may be interested in the opinions of an anonymous writer in "Private Eye" magazine (No. 1071, 10 January-23 January 2003) concerning the Daily Mail and its fondness for esoteric subjects. The article reads as follows: CRANKWATCH Stars of Wonder "Scientists from a bizarre religious cult claimed yesterday to have produced the world's first human clone," a horrified Daily Mail reported on 28 December. An accompanying editorial suggested that the views of this cult would make people "queasy". What is so bizarre about the Raelians? Allow the Mail to explain: The Raelians believe that "extraterrestrials created the human race 25,000 years ago", and that the sect's leader was briefly kidnapped by aliens in 1973 and taken on their spececraft to another planet. The Daily Mail itself has quite an appetite for the bizarre - or, if you prefer, blithering bollocks. Immediately above its front-page splash on 28 December were puffs for a series on "your stars for the year ahead", plus a special offer of a "FREE personal star calendar specially for you". But thanks to its obsession with horoscopes, Nostradamus and the lost city of Atlantis, the Mail seldom has space for more than one or two major series a year about alien spacecraft. In March 1998 it ran several features by Colin Wilson claiming that extraterrestrials have been "conducting some mass breeding experiment on the human race", and have done so for thousands of years - "perhaps for as long as man has been on the Earth". A few months later it had a 4,000 word feature asking "Does a Long-Dead Alien Civilisation on Mars Really Hold the Key to Human Survival?" To which the answer was a resounding yes: an early civilisation of "extra-terrestrial voyagers" placed a rock-formation looking vaguely like the Sphinx on the surface of Mars "as a beacon to mankind". In November 2000 it serialised a book by UFO-crank Timothy Good revealing his new alien theory - that "beings from outer space [have been] establishing secret bases on Earth, and travelling in ships that are just as much at home beneath the sea as they are in the skies". In the first instalment, spread over four pages, Good reported that Puerto Rico "is the site of a huge subterranean alien base - a secret complex extending deep into the ocean, constructed by aliens and visited frequently by their craft". His source for this was an American reporter who didn't wish to be identified, who in turn heard it from an unnamed officer in the US Air Force. In the past year, however, the Mail's interest has quickened. Last May, the news that ice has been found on Mars merited a 1,500-word feature under the headline: "Yes, There Could be Little Green Men". In July the Mail noted that a new crop circle near Stonehenge had been placed with such "pinpoint precision" that it might well have been left by aliens. Two weeks later it reported on a "mysterious blue object travelling at 'phenomenal speed'", which had been sighted in Maryland. On 7 November there was an interview with Reg Presley of the Troggs - who "is now obsessed with UFOs and aliens". Reg was duly given a full page to expound his theory that crop circles are "alien graffiti", and that a crop formation in the shape of male genitalia, seen in a field near Chequers some years ago, was probably an attempt by extraterrstrials to "reveal the truth" about John Major's affair with Edwina Currie. A week later the Mail had a long story about a computer hacker with a "UFO obsession". But what of its own UFO obsession? On 4 December 2002, under the headline "Visitors From Another Planet", it reported that several 15th century paintings depict "strange objects in the sky". Clouds, actually, to judge by the pictures in question. Two days later came the headline "The Day the Aliens Landed...in Suffolk", above a full-page report on the alleged landing of an alien spaceship in Rendlesham Forest, Suffolk, in 1980 - a hoary old yarn that has long since been explained. (Marks in the soil, said to be left by the spaceship's landing gear, were in fact rabbit diggings.) Nevertheless, the Mail recycled it all over again as a "news" story, embellished with an artist's impression of an extra-terrestrial. Meanwhile, for an entire week in December the Mail ran extracts from the latest book on "the Bible Code", a fantasy dreamed up by American hack Michael Drosnin to prove that a hidden code in the Bible foretold the terrorist attacks on 11 September 2001. The cipher, Drosnin revealed, was created by extra-terrestrials thousands of years ago: "There were clear refernces to what can only be called 'UFOs' in the unencoded text of the Bible - most notably in the Book of Ezekiel, which tells of a flying chariot in the sky from which four living beings emerged." This drivel - no less bizarre than the Raelians' beliefs - prompted no mockery or scepticism from the Mail. Far from it: "Dare we ignore this message?" it demanded. Can it be long before editor Paul Dacre bows to the inevitable and renames his paper the Daily Rael? -- John Harney
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 12 Re: Corso - Gehrman From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 18:20:23 -0800 Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 10:48:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Gehrman >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 17:43:13 -0400 >Subject: Re: Corso >>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 16:27:57 EST >>>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 09:52:13 -0800 >>>Subject: Re: Corso ><snip> >>>Uncertainty is acceptable. *The Day After Roswell* and the myth >>>it generates needs some serious discussion and contemplation. >>>That's impossible on this list where a majority of well known >>>and respected UFO researchers imply that Corso was a liar and >>>the book is nothing but a compilation of historical >>>inaccuracies, lies and more lies. How many folks have put off >>>buying a copy because they think that somehow the questions have >>>all been answered and the issues all resolved. Its a crock! >>Ed, List, All - >>I would like to point out that I have never implied that >>Lieutenant Colonel Philip Corso is a liar. I have stated it flat >>out, from lying about his rank, to lying about how he saw the >>alien bodies, to the misrepresentations of his positions in the >>Army. I have even seen a piece of video tape where Corso claims >>to have been the commander at White Sands Missile Range. >>So, Ed, in the future please do not say I have implied that >>Corso is a liar. Thank you. >Two other examples of flat-out lies by Corso: >1. He signed a sworn statement for Attorney Peter Gersten >claiming that he had been a member of the National Security >Council. This is, by the way, a statutory body. I sent Peter a >copy of the statement from the Eisenhower Library saying Corso >was never a member and never attended a meeting of the NSC. >Peter showed this statement to Corso and asked if he wanted to >change that part of the sworn statement. Corso answered no. Sort >of compounding the felony. From: http://www.caus.org/membercomments/mc062900.shtml "Hand was a CIA operative; Col. Corso had been the military Operations Coordinating Board's delegate to the CIA group planning the 1954 Guatemalan coup. He and Corso had discussed the serious connections between Oswald, the FBI and the Cuban government. Corso probably didn't know what to think or who to trust, certainly not the FBI who had at first denied any connection to Oswald but then had to admit that Oswald had contacted one their agents, James Hosty. What would you have done under those life and death circumstances? This was a matter of a Presidential assassination and some factions within the government were seriously worried about a coup." Your insistence that Corso wasn't a "member" is what post-modern deconstruction is all about. It's these fuzzy edges that need to be studied. Was he a player? Yes! Was he a member? We don't have enough information. Is there record of him being at these meetings? No, but is that enough to discount his contribution when other historians (not UFO researchers) assert that Corso was a major player? >2. Corso talked about introducing the Integrated circuit into >industry. The Nobel Prize for Physics for 2000 was awarded to >Jack S. Kilby, who invented the integrated circuit while working >for Texas Instruments in 1958 at least 2 years before Corso's >short tenure at the Army FTD. You need to cite the exact quote that says this. My reading of this chapter doesn't indicate that he "introduced" the integrated chip, but helped in on-going research through contracts and relevant information. I think he indicates that the chip was already around by the time he came on the scene. Now if I'm correct, does that mean that you're a liar and that we should disregard all your contributions? >Incidentally, Birnes admitted to me that he wrote the material >about Roswell because he thought the public didn't know enough >about Roswell. Birnes knew a lot because he was apparently >agenting a book about Roswell for Bill Moore and Jaime Shandera. Does this mean that the mistakes (lies) in this content can no longer be regarded as lies and atributed to Corso? >Did Corso lie? YES. Well you haven't shown that he has. I'd be careful here if I were you or Kevin. The Randle-Friedman dialogues sure left some questions in my mind about both of you. Ed
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 12 Re: Corso - Speiser From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 17:33:01 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 10:36:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Speiser >From: John W. Auchettl <Praufo@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 03:55:34 EST >Subject: Re: Corso >>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 13:48:43 -0800 >>Subject: Re: Corso - Gehrman ><snip> >>But its a crying shame to dismiss Corso's fascinating memories as >>fraudulent, and nothing but lies. >Corsos parallel universe is just as foreign and terrifying to >Dick and Jan's reality as "Marilyn Manson", "D12", "Limp >Bizkit", "xzibit", "Obie Trice" parallel existence. Can you see >them in a MOSH PIT? >Something must be wrong in reality? So let's pick the scab. >Let's make them conform or better still wipe the scab away. If >we bully them they may change into a modern Deano, Sinatra or >even Bing. Sooo... you're comparing Corso to Marilyn Manson, and 'established' ufology to Frank Sinatra and the Rat Pack (also known as 'The Summit')? Talk about making our case for us..... Jim Speiser Professional Frank Sinatra impersonator
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 12 Re: Security Classifications - Friedman From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com> Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 13:18:42 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 23:13:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Security Classifications - Friedman As an update on this thread I would like to inform Listers of some very recent findings. I contacted the Eisenhower Library and asked them to locate their copies of the two TOP SECRET memos from Robert Cutler reproduced as pages B-4, and B-5 in my "Final Report on Operation Majestic 12". Neither page has a TS Control Number.Jan Aldrich claimed that neither was actually a White House Docuemtn since they were located in the Twining Papers. Archivist Herb Pankratz was able to locate a copy of the June 25, 1953, memo from Cutler (Item B-4 in my Report) and faxed a copy of their onionskin copy which had no watermark.. It has no TS control number. He was unable to locate a copy of page B-5. I had asked about TS Control numbers. His statement, dated January 9, 2003, "In regards to control numbers on documents. we have numerous documents classified as "Top Secret" which do not have control numbers on them." His failure to find B-5 also illustrates that they do not have (or are not able to find) copies of all documents from the Eisenhower era. Some of course were kept at the White House after Ike left, just as the Ike Library has copies of some Truman era documents that are not at the Truman Library. Also it had several years ago been claimed that all Cutler item copies were on Eagle watermarked onion skin. The CT memo is on Dictation Onionskin. I had also noted a number that had no watermark. The Archives later made a number of changes in the memo they sent out about the CT memo after verifying a number of complaints from me. The point is, it is very difficult to generalize about real government documents whether it is about security classification, watermarks, TOP SECRET Control numbers, etc. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 13 Re: Mexico: Maussan's New Extraterrestrial - Myers From: Royce J. Myers III - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:39:42 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 17:24:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Mexico: Maussan's New Extraterrestrial - Myers >From: Scottm Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:50:28 -0500 >Subject: Mexico: Maussan's New Extraterrestrial >INEXPLICATA >The Journal of Hispanic Ufology >SOURCE: El Norte (newspaper) >DATE: Sunday, January 12, 2003 >MAUSSAN'S NEW EXTRATERRESTRIAL >by Idalia Barrera >A month after having appeared in Monterrey, Jaime Maussan has >returned to present new evidence to Monterreyans this Wednesday >and Thursday at the "Teatro del Seguro Social". <snip> >The photo shows a very small, strange figure of a being that >looks at the people who have the camera. "Some say this is a >hoax and can prove it; others say it is real and can prove it. >Javier Niebla, who is perhaps the best video analyst in Mexico, >says it's a fake, while Mr. Dan Airia (sic), an expert in the >U.S., says it's real." <snip> Concerning Maussan's photo of an alleged ET, please refer to the following: http://www.ufowatchdog.com/dubious.html http://www.rense.com/general32/faking.htm And don't forget that it was Dan Iaria and Jaime Maussan that claimed the Reed UFO Fraud was real, a case that did considerable damage to UFOlogy - a case that Maussan and Iaria both had considerable evidence showing it to be a hoax, yet they continued to promote it. Regards, Royce J. Myers III UFOWATCHDOG.COM "Don't Trip On Your Open Mind" It's Coming...Double Exposure http://www.ufowatchdog.com/doublex.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 13 Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer - Seguin From: Trevor Seguin <dragko@shaw.ca> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:50:34 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 17:30:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer - Seguin >From: Royce J. Myers III - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 15:24:23 -0800 >Subject: Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer >>From: Grant Cameron <presidentialufo@presidency.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 20:58:54 -0500 >>Subject: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer >>A weird one! >>Read the bizarre story and see pictures of the "pole deer" found >>in Manitoba, Canada, and the "tree deer" found in New York >>State. >>http://presidentialufo.com/newpage2.htm >>Then read an update story looking at a hoax to explain the wild >>circumstances. >>www.presidentialufo.com/pole_deer_hoax.htm >The tree deer is anything but weird. As far as I'm concerned, >and based on some common sense, the New York case has a >plausible and, don't be too disappointed folks, human >explanation to it though some are trying to make out to be much >more than that... I agree this is anything but strange. Cougars, other large cats and even bears, although rare, will drag a carcass into trees. The carcass must be small or the cougar must be large but it can be done. I know cougars are rare to non-existent in the New York area but there are probably some. In Manitoba there most definatly are a few. The pole does seems strange but if any of you had ever been to Manitoba you would no there aren't many large trees so maybe the area's cats have resorted to a more 'civilized' approach. The cat's tend to do this in area's where food is scarce as a protective measure. I also agree that there apears to be a very human aspect to this as well. Maybe poachers thought of some new fandangled methods to hiding the body. *Redneck tone* No one er look up eh Billy-bob? *End redneck tone* Trevor
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 13 Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 2 - Maccabee From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 16:49:31 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 17:29:13 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 2 - Maccabee >From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 01:27:15 -0400 ><Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 2 >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 20:04:44 -0500 >>Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 2 <snip> >>Interesting speculation, but I wonder if something that >>appears as a mirage to the jets (how high were they) would also >>affect the ground radar, assuming that the ground radar actually >>did pick up a 'line' target in the same direction as the did the >>aircraft. >>Unfortunately there is really not enough info here to make a >>good decision as to whether or not the sighting could be a >>result of natural causes. Had all the details been recorded at >>the time (sightings directions, tracks of the aircraft, exact >>direction of the "object" from the aircraft, exact direction of >>the supposed coincident target from the ground, grand radar >>distance, etc.) a decision probably could have been made. >If it isn't some airborn object then from my experience, this is >an electronic signature of some sort. But I'm having a problem >getting my head around a natural or man made continuous high >energy EMP at the same operational frequency as the radar >causing this aberration. The mirage explanation from two >different at angles so large as that it appears on the two >aircraft radar and ground based radar at the same time seems way >out of whack to me. There may also have been a considerable difference in radar frequenncies, with the A/C using a much higher frequency than the ground. If so, this would be another reason to question the (radar) mirage explanation.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 13 PRG Update - January 13, 2003 From: Stephen G. Bassett <ParadigmRG@aol.com> Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 21:52:36 EST Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:12:22 -0500 Subject: PRG Update - January 13, 2003 PRG January 13, 2003 Paradigm Research Group Citizen Hearing The newest project of PRG and X-PPAC has been launched. Website: http://www.citizenhearing.org Email: CitizenHearing@aol.com Motto: "If Congress will not do its job, the public will." The initial press release is up on the site. Over the next few weeks meetings are being scheduled with potential advisors, sponsor organizations, supporters and presiding Members. Do you know a former member of Congress or a potential supporter and would like to set up a meeting? Please contact Citizen Hearing. Also, CH director, Stephen Bassett, will be touring the West between Jan 20 and Feb 9 and available for meetings or presentations about this new initiative. See the trip schedule below. Sarah McClendon [personal note] Legendary journalist, Sarah McClendon, died on Tuesday, January 7. She was 92. Sarah believed (as I do) that we live in a time when a governmental cult of secrecy and male arrogance hold the truth hostage and the world by the throat. With Congress essentially out to lunch, the presidency under assault and the judiciary irrelevant, the institution which must assist the people in rectifying this circumstance is journalism, but journalism of a type which Sarah McClendon embodied. Too many modern journalists have become vain, corporate and soft. Who among them is able, and more importantly willing, to step into the breach? Trip Speaking Stops Sunday, January 26, 4-7 pm Sacramento MUFON Meeting 2030 Fulton Avenue (Sizzler) MUFON Sacramento Information: cynthias@winfirst.com http://www.mufonsacramento.org Trip Schedule Cell phone: 202-431-2459 Jan 17 - 20 Vegas Jan 20 - 23 Los Angeles/Santa Clarita Jan 23 - 24 San Luis Obispo Jan 24 - 26 San Jose/Marin/Sacramento Jan 26 - 27 Lake Tahoe Jan 28 - 29 Phoenix Jan 30 - 31 Albuquerque Feb 1 - 2 Sedona Feb 3 - 9 Laughlin Feb 9 - 10 Vegas Other Media History Channel Thursday, January 30 9pm EST The work of X-PPAC may be featured CFRB - AM 1010 Toronto Strange Days... Indeeed Saturday, February 8 http://www.cfrb.com Lou Gentile Show Tuesday, February 11 11 pm EST http://www.lougentile.com/index2.html Out of the Blue The new documentary by Tim Coleman and James Fox, Out of the Blue, is getting a great deal of notice. There have been many fine documentaries, but this one puts it all together in a fast paced package and has arrived at a very good time. It has the potential for political impact. http://www.outoftheblue.com Frontline Wednesday, PBS's Frontline will air the first two hours of a documentary on the War on Drugs (one of the most destructive political policies of the last 100 years). It will be outstanding because Frontline is the best documentary team working today. Try to imagine the impact, if Frontline were to bring that excellence to the politics of disclosure. They won't. Off all the media entities dealt with over the last seven years, the ones most fearful of and unwilling to engage the UFO/ET/Dislcosure issue are PBS and NPR. If they continue this policy, all of their other good work will be diminished and their place in American journalism will be compromised. D2003 Photo Gallery A photo gallery from the D2003 campaign is now up at: http://www.disclosure203.net [Photo Gallery] X-PPAC Website The X-PPAC website has been given a face lift and redesigned to display properly under all resolutions. Next up is the Paradigm Clock website which will be Flashed. http://www.x-ppac.org New Pre-disclosure Indicators and Close Encounters/Contact Watch See the rest at: http://www.disclosure2003.net/predisclosure.htm December 16, 2002 The editor of "Skeptic Magazine," Michael Shermer, gives a glowing review to the new documentary, "Out of the Blue," by Tim Coleman and James Fox. Depending upon your degree of denial of the evidence and your future career expectations, if disclosure were close at hand, what would you do? http://www.outoftheblue.com http://www.outoftheblue.tv/news/SM_review.html 2003 Contact - Wednesday, January 8 9 pm FX Contact - Thursday, January 9 2 am FX ____________________________________________________ Paradigm Research Group URL: http://www.paradigmclock.com E-mail: ParadigmRG@aol.com Cell: 202-431-2459 4938 Hampden Lane, #161 Bethesda, MD 20814 ____________________________________________________ "There is almost no limit to what you can accomplish, if you are willing to give away the credit." ____________________________________________________ "Intellectual passion is found at the intersection of fact and implication."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 13 Re: Corso - Bennett From: Colin Bennett <sharkley@panzerben.fsworld.co.uk> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 03:19:34 -0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:24:18 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Bennett >From: Richard Hall hallrichard99@hotmail.com >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 23:04:54 +0000 >Subject: Re: Corso -- Hall >You are so wrong in this that it's pitiful, but our eyes cross >and our minds boggle with your typical long-winded flatulence. I do like the Royal Plural, Richard. But perhaps you are getting ideas above your station. Does the plural refer to your partner in arms, now apparently fled from the Corso battlefield in tears to stamp his little foot in the dark, somewhere? Don't fret, you're just not used to this kind ofopposition, that's all.What Cromwell said of Parliament can be said of the bearded sages and gurus of "scientific" Ufology: "thou hast sate too long". Richard, you have made a great contribution to Ufology. But I intend to do the same, and (as dear Wendy Connors would say) "I ain't your style". A new kid on the block always arouses the same response. Well boys (I use the plural) if you want a fight you've picked a wrong one. But with one guru fled in tears, and the other in a bit of a cursing swoon, I asked myself what happened to American balls? In the meantime, whilst you are both (I use the plural) recovering, Ufology needs a new vision. And I am going to make bloody sure it gets one. Flatulence? Is that all you can say about my original post on the Corso business? Come now Richard Hall, you can do better than that. You scream constantly for "evidence" yet you don't comment about what I meant by a mythological text in detail, referring to it as breaking wind? This is not the response of an intelligent person you undoubtedly are. But every time I post to this List I get complaints from Americans that the words are too long, or my sentences contain more than one clause, or my reasoning is over-extended, or that I mention a lot of old books that no-one born after 1945 appears to have heard of. Also, any kind of philosophical depth or abstract reasoning is described as "farting", "verbal salad" or "long winded", and there have been requests for aspirin, and complaints about the costs of new reading lenses and new dictionaries! Is this the nation of the Alamo and Okinawa? Now we have the rather blushing euphemism "flatulence" from you, Richard Hall, of all people. I am surprised at such language from a scion of a family such as yours, sir. The next time you speak to me sir, have some respect for both the dignity of your lineage (as posted on your site), and the dignity of both myself and the mixed company of this List. You might also like to bear in mind that I am not a man to be intimidated by swearing or bluster. As for bullies, I eat them with my post-toasties, pick my teeth with their bones, and fling the remains to my pit-bull mastiffs. Unlike Mr. Aldrich or your good self I am big enough to be laughed at or satirized, but to be the target of playground effluvia from his defenders says more about the abusers than myself. We only swear in such a manner when we are at a loss for words and have momentarily lost our skills of expression. It is a great wonder indeed that Mr. Aldrich appears not to have the nerve or the courage to come out and defend himself instead of letting yourself and others do his fighting for him. Now he chooses to sulk in his lair like a spoilt brat who didn't get what he wanted for Christmas. >You denigrate those of us who base our arguments on facts, >evidence, logic, and scientific method. Then what else is there? >Shall we believe whatever we prefer? You would have people believe certain things and not others? Are you some kind of enforcer? >How, under your [non]system shall we evaluate anything about >UFOs? Shall we simply say, well, I like the sound of that idea >and it seems agreeable to me? You are ignoring the postmodern view. There is no need to be afraid of postmodernism. It is all very simple. Drama schools for example use improvisations again and again to examine the dimensions of situations that human beings spin around themselves and their experiences. It really doesn't matter whether you call it improvisation or deconstruction, what postmodernism does is show is that human are always into game- situations, of which "factual objectivity" is but one game. Try claiming "factual objectivity" before a group of enthusiastic drama students a nd it will be only a few minutes before you are weeping dust, guaranteed, big time! When Ufology grows up, it will have to undergo these ordeal by fire experiences and the cloistered factspiel monks had better bring along a pack of good diapers. Talking about growing up, there is a typical change of paradigm occurring before our very eyes, described very well by Greg Sandow in his recent post: >>There's a lot to be said for the cultural analysis of ideas. >>That's the grain of truth when Colin Bennett carries on about >>postmodern this and that. Every idea has a cultural history. >>Everybody is predisposed to believe some things and disbelieve >>others, simply because of the culture they're part of. Or, more >>precisely, the subculture, because obviously the western culture >>most of us here belong to has many offshoots and variants. There >>aren't any neutral ideas, culturally speaking. >>But on the other hand, there really is such a thing as objective truth. Postmodernism doesn't demolish the pain and blood of a fist in the face! It is more a method of analyzing the advertisements that make up an event. It takes down the personal and social screens, and is a method of opening deep contextual background and seeing the fist in the face as the end of a very complex process that fact cannot enter. For instance when science reduces a bus going down a hill full of fighting drunks and policemen and junkies trying to exit via the luggage compartment to a point moving down an inclined plane, don't we feel think that something is wrong with such a description? What does science say here? You are being statistically measured, so don't worry? What does postmodernism say? Postmodernism says that the event as an experience is being ripped off, that's what postmodernism says. It shows so-called innocent "factually objective" events as a means of mass alienation: it strips this bus event of all colour, identity, individuality, and drama and not a little love. Reduced to nothing, the event is stolen from us, it is effectively denatured as a means of knowing. As a writer for Philosophy Now magazine, I must say that there are also deeper issues about science and society that I don't intend to go into here (sighs of relief all round, methinks!). Suffice it to say that statistics and cultural reduction to points down an inclined plane as certain reductive "cleansing" process are applied don't exactly have a good PR as far as Greg Sandow's particular culture and religion go. For myself, whenever I hear the word "statistics" I become a Jew, shuffling in a line with Greg, towards those places whose names are legion. But to more cheerful matters. As I have described in detail in previous posts, Corso's book is a mythological text, and the "factual" doings and sayings of the author are irrelevant. It will be read as Swift's Gulliver's Travels are read, and interpreted in just such a manner as a symbolic work of its age in terms of social controversy and the politics of scientific and technological belief systems. Many of those who criticize Corso are utterly incapable of writing such a significant book, and are content to pile up "facts" like cans of beans in a warehouse. All good books are dangerous. Let's have more of them. >As I have observed many times before in the arguments of those >who reject scientific method, what is your alternative? You mean to tell me you don't know of any alternative way of coming to knowledge than applying the scientific method? Have you heard of Shakespeare? Have you heard of Literature and the Arts, have you heard of receiving truth through Music and Painting? Have you not heard of meditation, insight, mysticism, inspiration, the coming of truth through love? Have you not heard of coming to knowledge through the experience of mercy, compassion, irrational insights? >If you argue that there is nothing even resembling an >approximation to truth that can be established in that way, then >you basically are a nihilist and there is no reason whatsoever >to take anything you say seriously. Why should we? What is it >based on. This is not nihilism. Have you never received truth through reading a poem or seeing a play? There are no facts in the scientific sense there at all. I refer to moral truth. Moral truth may or may not have anything to do with facts. Just go to a Court first thing Monday morning, and you will see exactly what I mean. There you will see a million versions of "reality" in one hour. In this sense, Corso's book is a very moral book. >Given an unknowable universe, why should we even try >to understand it by asking critical questions, trying to >establish facts, and applying logic and reason to them? Have you never ever met a person who did not know as much as you, was not as clever or well-educated as you, did not have as much knowledge as yet was your moral superior? With this mind, let's just take a look at what your beloved scientific method has done to planet Earth. You sir, are supporting a philosophy whose technological application has polluted air, sea, earth and water. On the animal and indeed human experimentation issue alone, scientists have absolutely no moral stand at all. Whenever I hear the words "scientific enlightenment" I reach for my (non-existent) gun. You talk about science almost in a lowered reverential voice, Richard, and still appear to be a scientific innocent. I know that tone of voice. You have been abducted by a social process. You need intellectually re-birthing. Sorry Richard, but factual objectivity is yet another god-game. That must come as a terrible disappointment to you, but without realizing that you remain in the blushing hopeful school sixth form. Deconstruction means that we must detox on occasion our most fundamental belief systems that we have like tree-rings within us. To help you in this process, take a look at science over the past half-century. Ever since Rachel Carson's Silent Spring forty years ago, the bookshops have had lines of books showing that science (which means inevitably State and consequently orporate science) is identical with corruption and conspiracy. What price evidence- based factual objectivity after the MKULTRA and Enron scandals alone? You still have faith in science do you Richard, when we all live in late Rome, and intellectual shame is alone demonstrated by animal experimentation, never mind little things such as the destruction of the environment. I can't wait for the next scientific "breakthrough", the next "advance" of the well- scrubbed scientific hero-soldiers. For years I listened to the soap operas of their inevitable victories (they never failed) coming as it were from Big Brother loudspeakers on street corners, and now since science has been totally discredited, I don't listen any more. The game is played out. The UFO is in town. It's a better bet. >>There's a lot to be said for the cultural analysis of ideas. >>That's the grain of truth when Colin Bennett carries on about >>postmodern this and that. Every idea has a cultural history. >>Everybody is predisposed to believe some things and disbelieve >others, simply because of the culture they're part of. What does postmodernism mean? It means scratch the "Mr. Clean" surface of the advertising display, and you find creepy crawly things underneath. I notice that as concerns the Corso issue we are not discussing, the equally fantastic claims in the books of Nick Pope and Nick Cook. They, for example are not mentioned. Nor are Whitely Streiber's fascinating recent discussions of the possibility that present-day UFOs are full of Nazis, God forbid! Perhaps Richard you don't have the nerve to call these writers liars because they are alive and well, can take care of themselves, and can afford lawyers. How about applying your scientific method to them, come what may? Call the writer of the Foreword to Stanton's Top Secret Majic a liar, and you will wonder what has hit you. Is that the reason why we are debating the claims of Corso, and not the claims of Streiber, who has also written equally significant books of our time, containing material as equally controversial as that in Corso's book? Come now Richard, what are you afraid of? It is a very strange business when Stanton invites Streiber to write his Foreword, yet calls Corso a liar, when there are countless documents abroad on the web accusing Stanton himself of being a liar in turn as regards both the MJ12 and the Roswell affairs. Stanton for example has been taken to task on this very List in the past for claiming a particular security classification he admits he did not have at the time. He said on this List that he did not know how such a claim got into his book, Majic 12. Being a postmodernist, I have several options (and thinking is all about options) than to call him a liar. I don't think this amounts to much as hypocrisy on Stanton's part, but it is an ironic reminder on how quickly the ground can shift. I think for instance as a student of MJ12, Stanton was being taught a Trickster lesson about a broken connection between texts and minds he will never forget. Everybody knows the feeling. The observer has been observed. You are never alone with imitation of an imitation. This is postmodernism in action. Such a meaningful coincidence was once part of a full dialogue with Nature that we have forgotten. It is now a cultural fragment to be brushed into the pan and throw away as almost meaningless. It was once a full trail, but now it is fallen to glimpses and echoes, flashes of insight, and traces of what was once a fully live intuition. Or perhaps the MJ12 Effect itself was playing games with Stanton. When we talk about alien intelligence, we must be prepared to think right out of the box and right out of the box again and yet again. They won't just be better at solving partial differential equations than we are. I myself don't think either Stanton or Corso are liars, I think that as authors both tell different aspects of the same tale: that there has been a landing, that there has been contact etc. I myself, having had a UFO experience, have no problem in believing these things. Given my own experience, I see the difference between Stanton and Corso as not the difference between truth and fiction, but the understandable confusions between interpretation of what may be an extremely complex state of affairs involving many different alien cultures a b and c etc and their separate agendas and advertising systems. One level could have told lies to Adamski and quite a different level could have told a different set of lies to Corso and indeed Streiber. This sounds more like paganism and Greek polytheism than anything else (read George Hanson, Patrick Harpur, and Jacques Vallee), and perhaps what we are doing is reconstructing our lost relationship with the Pantheon of Mount Olympus after more than 2000 years of destructive monotheism. In this respect, with regard to many of the things that Corso describes, "they" may have partially initiated lots of things and not finished them. With regard to many of the things that Stanton has so notably investigated, there is another question. Given the acceptance of an alien presence dead or alive, anywhere at all, then surely that increases the possibility of alien interference in at least some element of human culture. Which brings us at least a little nearer to the questions about the origin of the cold-junction amplifier that has changed all life on planet Earth. In this respect, Stanton's surprisingly simplistic accusation of lying is hardly worthy of the author of two of the best UFO books we have in the canon. But he must look forward. We should all be moving towards fuzzy approximations than old industrial certainties. In a media age, these have gone with spark, steam, and hammer metaphors. The Y2K and MJ12 phenomena cannot be understood in such desperately old-fashioned terms. In a world become pure media and advertising fact and fiction are hard and soft sells. If that blows up a lot of old mechanistic arguments here on this List, I don't care. Yes I agree that Corso's claim to have met aliens down mines is almost as risible as Adamski's meeting with Orthon the Venusian. But when we consider the daunting and complex games that alien intelligence(s) could be into, we might well think about multi- dimensional media-manipulation, as indeed many UFO researchers have done, but not on this somewhat dour and sober List full of mechanicals. The objections to Corso's claims come from a fundamental human need to disbelieve. And some people will disbelieve anything. Levels of belief in any case are good schlock- advertising, and the "factually objective" schlock advertising is some of the best Fortean entertainment you can get. Like God, the physicists change the commercial breaks with less frequency than TV, but they're catching up. Even the very dated cultural advertising is good for a laugh, like the penny- farthing bicycle. On this List for example, matter is still "solid" and science itself got rid of this idea over a hundred years ago. No modern physicist would talk of matter being solid. Why do folk still talk in such a way? Because it still sells, that's why. It's cheap and cheerful, easy luggage for the brain. You don't want to take Einstein and Planck on every trip, now do you? Acceptance depends not on the ludicrous yes or no of binary colonization, but on the degree of fantasy involved in various claims. This degree is directly proportional to the level of acceptance. For instance, many people think that the MJ12 business is as ludicrous as Adamski's meeting with Orthon. In postmodern thinking, style, rather than fact is often the key to such acceptance levels, and is a good way assessing the significance of these levels. History hardly turns on factual considerations. Just like Hollywood, more does history turn on image and status, power, ego, and yes, that scientific demon called the irrational act. Stanton for instance is the much more acceptable cool low-key discursive thinker, and Corso is hot, impulsive, nervous and uncompromising. In other words Stanton's PR was always much better managed. Also, MJ12 is much more cool an affair than Adamski's Orthon claim, and say, David Icke's lizards. If there was ever a yuppy mystery worth the name, the MJ12 hunt is it. It is the ultimate in Electric Kool-Aid Acid Tests, and I have sent a copy to Tom Wolfe. He would love the games played here, where one statement, equally as fantastic as another, is described as "false" compared to another that is described as "real". What is the difference? Answer: Style Wars! The situation described as such gets us out of the dreadful rut described again and again in which Stanton (imaged as the cool clever guy who knows his way around) calls Corso (imaged as a bit of a mendacious hayseed) a liar. It is all a matter not so much of the old-fashioned deterministic meccano-industrial idea of "factual" differences here much as a matter of style and theatre and imaging and personal projection. Wolfe would love all this. Like the software of the sceptic-versus believer opposition, this whole business of accusations is an advertising war. This corresponding-parity relationship can be found in Starsky and Hutch, Darwin and Huxley, and even Bennett and Hall. Stanton is the antidote to Corso in terms of suggestion, psychology, performance, and staging, witness the video Is Stanton Friedman Real? Stanton obviously thoroughly enjoyed his limelight, but Corso might have pulled his gun and shot the crew thinking they were communists. The postmodern view gets us out of this endlessly frustrating business of who is in the right and who is in the wrong. What we have is a contrasting fabric in which both men and their corresponding cultures are seen in context, and not in do or die opposition. So when Richard Hall asks me what I use as an analytical tool, I give him this example. Therefore away with those who say Corso's The Day After Roswell is a book by a silly and confused man, an under-promoted little runt with an ego problem who lied his way through life. It is in its way a brilliant book. It has a deeply romantic aura, an almost gothic view of the military-industrial complex. A reader almost expects black bats to fly out of computer screens. You can sit down and actually read Corso which is more than you can say of the published manuals (hardly to be called books) of many researchers, a good number of whom have replaced weekend bridge- parties as one of the great bores of the age, to run away from like the proverbial greased lightening. Corso's book is as full of shapes and rumours and shadows and half-lit scenes as a Bosche painting. Like Captain Edward J. Ruppelt's The Report on Unidentified Flying Objects, Corso's book is one of the few books by a serving officer to lift the curtain on a truly fantastic world. His work reminds us of that other big bad book of the 1960s, The Morning of the Magicians by Pawel and Bergier, which met with similar reception from the vast hosts of the mundane zombies. There is a lot of envy and resentment here because Corso, like Stanton, has written one of the most successful and significant UFO books for many years, and in doing so has completely confounded and annoyed the dozing mandarins of the Ufological establishment who are still scratching the bottom of a dead parrot's cage for the forgotten numbers of lost document boxes. >>>I believe, like Colin Bennett said in one of his original and >>>very thoughtful and interesting works on this list [2], like >>>American novelist Toni Morrison, (with my changes) Ed, 'you >>>listen and let the trail talk to you'. Others may like to take >>>the time to listen and follow your trail. Nick Cook lets the trail talk to him, but how his book would be demolished on this List, especially by those who have not written any books at all! Similarly, The Day After Roswell is full of excitement and adventure, magic and imagination, all those things hated like poison by the "scientific" Ufologists. As in the books of Georgina Bruni, Jenny Randles, and Linda Moulton Howe (how I wish these brilliant women would appear again on this List to put all the dull prosaic monkish-men to shame!), there is a creepy atmosphere you never forget. Like these women writers, Corso has a vision of things beyond simple- minded factoid accounts, and there is a sore lack of that in so- called "scientific" Ufology. Politically, like the skeptics, the monkish researchers in turn want to control the raising of the cultural curtain. That's politics of the imagination for you, folks! The pity of it is that the po-faced commissar- researchers, as distinct from the (now almost forgotten) forlorn skeptics, know that there is not so much nothing going off, but too much going off. >>>>Thank you and post modernism. I knew there must be some >>>>way out of here! So-called "scientific ufology" has now become a cult, complete with Maoist show-trials of the dialectical deviants. The beloved "facts" are now being pursued in many cases purely for its own sake, piled up on the web sites like Kafka's sandcastles. These are the first post-industrial slag heaps of cyberspace. I thank Mr. Sandow, Mr. Gerhman, and Mr. Auchettl for their support, and their detailed and considered responses to my defence of Lieutenant Colonel Philip Corso's book The Day After Roswell. I thank also Richard Hall for his determined opposition. I would like to thank Jan Aldrich, but he has, as we Brits say, done a bunk. I would like also to thank the many people who have got in touch with me privately concerning the Corso matters discussed in previous posts. Colin (Bad Man) Bennett My posts are now available as Combat Diaries on http//:www.thewhyfiles.com and may appear later in the year in a published form, with full acknowledgements to Virtually Strange. This posting is Combat Diary Number 4
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 13 Budd Hopkins' UFO Seminar Announcement - 01-25-03 From: Intruders Foundation <Ifinfo1@aol.com> Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 23:15:04 EST Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:33:45 -0500 Subject: Budd Hopkins' UFO Seminar Announcement - 01-25-03 Intruders Foundation Seminar Series Announcement Budd Hopkins & David Jacobs Discuss The Miniseries 'Taken' Saturday, January 25, 2003 Steven Spielberg's "Taken," a twenty-hour epic concerning the effects of the UFO phenomenon on the lives of three generations of Americans, received somewhat mixed reviews from believers and skeptics alike, as well as from actual abductees and UFO researchers. Despite the varied appraisals, the show was, however, extremely successful in building a larger audience for the subject. During the course this upcoming IF Seminar, Dave Jacobs and Budd Hopkins will show excerpts from the miniseries itself, accompanied by their personal reactions to those segments. Their presentation will also feature videotaped selections from the November 2002 "Abduction Symposium" sponsored by the Sci-Fi Channel. This important three-way dialogue of the UFO abduction phenomenon by senior researchers David Jacobs, John Mack, and Budd Hopkins, was held at the Regency Hotel shortly before the miniseries was aired. It was attended by an invited audience and was moderated by the former CBS and ABC anchorperson, Morton Dean. If you have watched "Taken," or are simply interested in UFO abductions, we welcome your attendance to this highly informative, yet informal, evening with the experts. Audience participation will, as usual, be welcomed. (NOTE: A previously announced appearance by crop-circle researcher Nancy Talbott has been cancelled. We still hope to present Ms. Talbott on another occasion.) REGISTRATION & INFORMATION The seminar will be held on January 25th at the meeting rooms of A.R.E., on the tenth floor of 150 W. 28th Street, New York, NY. The price of the seminar is $30 for non-members and $20 for members of IF, seniors, and students. Reservations must be made by telephone at 212-645-5278, and will be filled on a first come, first served basis. Payment must be made in advance to secure the reservation. Make checks payable to the Intruders Foundation, P.O. Box 30233, New York, NY 10011. Only 50 reservations will be accepted. On-street parking is generally available in the neighborhood. The seminar will begin at 7:30 PM and end at 10:00 PM. Doors open at 7:00 PM. There will be a one half-hour intermission, during which light complimentary refreshments will be served. A book table will offer books, videotapes, and other material for sale to those interested. For additional information, call IF at 212-645-5278. Hope to see you there! ---------- The Intruders Foundation Seminar Series is presented in the interests of open-minded scientific learning and the free exchange of research, ideas, and theories. IF makes no specific claims or endorsements regarding any materials, views, or subject matter presented by our guests. ---------- Want to know more about Budd Hopkins and his nonprofit scientific research organization, as well as past and future IF events? Please visit our website=E2=C7=A6 Intruders Foundation Website: www.intrudersfoundation.org ---------- Upcoming Events: *** March 1, 2003 - ABDUCTEEE PANEL *** April 5, 2003 - RICHARD DOLAN (Check the IF website for additional information.) ----------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 13 Re: Corso - Randle From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 08:46:05 EST Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:38:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Randle >From: John W. Auchettl <Praufo@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 01:59:17 EST >Subject: Re: Corso >>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 12:29:45 EST >>Subject: Re: Corso - Randle >http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2003/jan/m08-016.shtml ><snip> >>And I read in the newspaper this morning that Lt. Gen. Michael >>Hagee, who is going to become the Commandant of the Marines has >>removed three medals... ><snip> >Hi Kevin, >What is your point? Are you saying that a few bad apples corrupt >the orchard or does it fit into your ideas that some are corrupt >so Corso must also be corrupt? Good Morning John, List, All - Had you read the whole post carefully, you would have noticed that I was responding to the claim that "some general" had smoked himself because he had been caught wearing two medals he didn't deserve and that we should all read Stolen Valor to understand how pervasive all the lying is about backgrounds. I pointed out that it wasn't some general, but in fact Admiral Mike Boorda who committed suicide and that suicide came after a press inquiry about two "V" devices on ribbons he wore. I pointed out that in Stolen Valor this case is discussed and it seems that the suicide was driven by other issues and not this simple mistake. I mentioned General Hagee because he too was accused of wearing medals he hadn't earned and his explanation was that he believed he had been awarded them and agreed that the paperwork supporting that claim was thin. He was going to remove these three rather inconsequential decorations until he could locate the proper documentation. I thought this an intelligent solution to a rather minor problem and applauded the general for his honesty and integrity. I was pointing out that these mistakes happen and have found myself in similar circumstances. In one case it was oakleaf clusters to an air medal, but I was able to locate sufficient documentation to support my claim and in another it was about a distinguished flying cross that I have only recently located what I believe to be sufficient documentation. These mistakes were not mine and I believe that General Hagee will find the documentation showing the mistake was not his. >Is this an example of a scatter gun approach on Corso's good >record and name to validate an argument? No, this was an example of a List participant remembering something he had read and using it to support a point. I was suggesting that the lesson learned from Stolen Valor was to check the facts before reporting them to make sure the information was accurate and that mistakes do happen. It was to suggest that a timely and legitimate explanation will defuse the situation rather than spinning and lying. >And: >>I would like to point out that I have never implied that >>Lieutenant Colonel Philip Corso is a liar. [1]. >He is in fact a "real", Army Colonel. No, he was, in fact, a _real_ Army Lieutenant Colonel. All the records show this. There is no indication he was ever promoted to Colonel, though, when asked about the discrepancy, he chose to "spin" (read lie here) about it. This is like a second lieutenant claiming to be a first lieutenant. While both are addressed orally as lieutenant, there is an important difference. In correspondence, or on the cover of a book, the second lieutenant should make it clear he is a second lieutenant. Corso should have made sure they understood he was just a lieutenant colonel... That, by itself, however, is not sufficient to label Corso a liar. I found myself in a somewhat similar circumstance over The UFO Casebook. The editor has assumed that USAFR after my name meant United States Air Force, Retired, when, in fact, it meant United States Air Force Reserve. I did not retire from the Air Force and someone called me on the point. I told him that the editor had misunderstood the "R" and had not checked with me. By the time I saw the cover, it was too late to change it. I hoped my explanation would be satisfactory and from that point tried to make it clear to all what the "R" meant. Corso, in a similar circumstance, chose to lie about it. Rather than pointing out the editor made a legitimate mistake and believed Corso was a colonel (or the editor didn't understand the difference which is also quite possible), Corso claimed he had been promoted to Colonel in the reserve... something that isn't all that uncommon either. But the truth is, based on his records, he was not promoted to colonel in the reserve but rather than correct the record, he chose to lie about it. So, the point was that mistakes do happen. That those reading Stolen Valor should understand the message of the book. That General Hagee resolved the situation with grace and integrity and that Philip Corso chose to compound the mistake by lying about it. And finally, shouldn't you, in quoting me (I would like to point out that I have never implied that Lieutenant Colonel Philip Corso is a liar) have included in the second statement in which I stated it baldy? Philip Corso was a liar. The statement, as quoted, misrepresents my views about Corso. KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 13 Re: C.E.: Worldwide UFO Wave Prediction 03-15-03 - From: Don Johnson <ufocat@cufos.org> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 10:40:22 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:42:13 -0500 Subject: Re: C.E.: Worldwide UFO Wave Prediction 03-15-03 - [Non-Subscriber Post] >From: Hannes la Rue <hannes.la.rue@mufon-ces.org> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 16:45:02 +0100 >Subject: Re: C.E.: Worldwide UFO Wave Prediction 03-15-03 >>From: Don Johnson <ufocat@cufos.org> >>To: CURRENT-ENCOUNTERS@LISTSERV.AOL.COM >>Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 16:17:54 -0500 >>Subject: Prediction For March 15 2003 Worldwide UFO Wave ><snip> >Dear Mr. Johnson, research colleagues, >With interest we learned about the "prediction". I am sure it is >based on a statistical analysis of the CUFOS UFO Report >Database. >We at the German Language Section of MUFON are building a >database at the moment. So far, we have managed our data without >using computers. >Our new database will guarantee, that data will be >internationally exchangable. >I can imagine a discussion, leading to more co-operation. First, >how is data input, managed and exchanged at CUFOS and other >organizations? >Are similar categories, variables and the same classification >system used so data is exchangable within CUFOS, MUFON, FUFOR, >NIDS, CISU, SOBEPS, etc? Thank you for your contact. We use Microsoft Access to maintain the UFOCAT database and stronly recommend that others adopt the same software. I know that the Archives for UFO research at AFU Sweden also uses Access. I would be happy to send you an electronic version of the UFOCAT 2002 Users' Guide. Would you like that in MS Word or HTML format? By the way, I think that Denmark will be heavily involved in this worldwide wave that I am predicting, as well as locales in Germany and Switzerland. But if extrapolations from previous UFO waves can be trusted the wave will occur throughout the world. Don Johnson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 13 Re: Corso - Friedman From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:03:06 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:47:16 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Friedman >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 18:20:23 -0800 >Subject: Re: Corso >>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 17:43:13 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Corso <snip> >From: >http://www.caus.org/membercomments/mc062900.shtml >"Hand was a CIA operative; Col. Corso had been the military >Operations Coordinating Board's delegate to the CIA group >planning the 1954 Guatemalan coup. He and Corso had discussed >the serious connections between Oswald, the FBI and the Cuban >government. Corso probably didn't know what to think or who to >trust, certainly not the FBI who had at first denied any >connection to Oswald but then had to admit that Oswald had >contacted one their agents, James Hosty. What would you have >done under those life and death circumstances? This was a matter >of a Presidential assassination and some factions within the >government were seriously worried about a coup." Ed, The National Security Council is a very important Body. It had many groups connected with it. Membership on the NSC is determined by law. The Ike Library has 250,000 pages of NSC material. Some is still classified. There are minutes, agendas, etc listing who attended meetings, topics for the next meeting etc. Corso was NOT a member of the NSC, ever. He according to the Ike Library never attended a meeting.The batboy for the baseball team does attend and participate in the games. He does not have the same stature as the on field players or the Manager. Corso was not a policy wheel. >Your insistence that Corso wasn't a "member" is what post-modern >deconstruction is all about. It's these fuzzy edges that need >to be studied. I repeat Corso was not a member of the very prestigious National Security Council. There is nothing fuzzy here.He was a liason man. I have letters about him. Clearly he wasn't a big player nor an NSC member. But he claimed he was. Therefore he lied... like Bob Lazar falsely claiming he had an MS degree in physics from MIT. He lied. You make it sound as though there is no difference between a congressional aide and a congressman. But there is a big difference. >Was he a player? Yes! Was he a member? We don't have enough >information. Is there record of him being at these meetings? No, >but is that enough to discount his contribution when other >historians (not UFO researchers) assert that Corso was a major >player? What are these vast contributions?. Is everybody who works for the US Government in DC a 'player', perhaps because they live three doors down from somebody who is? >>2. Corso talked about introducing the Integrated circuit into >>industry. The Nobel Prize for Physics for 2000 was awarded to >>Jack S. Kilby, who invented the integrated circuit while working >>for Texas Instruments in 1958 at least 2 years before Corso's >>short tenure at the Army FTD. >You need to cite the exact quote that says this. My reading of >this chapter doesn't indicate that he "introduced" the >integrated chip, but helped in on-going research through >contracts and relevant information. I think he indicates that >the chip was already around by the time he came on the scene. >Now if I'm correct, does that mean that you're a liar and that >we should disregard all your contributions? Kilby's discovery has been written up widely especially since he received the Nobel Prize in physics.The roster of the FTD indicates that in June 1960 there were 2people in FTD with Corso being the junior officer. He was not a scientist or an engineer. Where is there any evidence that he had anything to do with Kilby's work ( or any of the other work he bragged about?), the most important part of which was done in 1958. Perhaps you have records of R and D contracts from the FTD to Texas Instruments? >>Incidentally, Birnes admitted to me that he wrote the material >>about Roswell because he thought the public didn't know enough >>about Roswell. Birnes knew a lot because he was apparently >>agenting a book about Roswell for Bill Moore and Jaime Shandera. >Does this mean that the mistakes (lies) in this content can no >longer be regarded as lies and atributed to Corso? >>Did Corso lie? YES. >Well you haven't shown that he has. I'd be careful here if I >were you or Kevin. >The Randle-Friedman dialogues sure left some questions in my >mind about both of you. Just what are those, Ed? I made the effort to get FTD information from the Army Archives and Corso information from the Ike Library and Kilby info from the internet including the Nobel Foundation. I have spent time with Corso, Birnes, Corso's son. One would think that when Kevin and I agree about somebody lying that would be a unique event worth noting. After all we have demonstrated on this List that we often have major disagreements. I suspect many on this List have serious questions about you as well, Ed. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 13 Secrecy News -- 01/13/03 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:20:14 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:52:56 -0500 Subject: Secrecy News -- 01/13/03 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2003, Issue No. 4 January 13, 2003 ** CIA FACES BUDGET CRUNCH ** WIDER INTELLIGENCE SHARING SOUGHT ** NEW LEGISLATIVE ACTION ** JAPANESE IMPERIAL ARMY FILES ** RADIOACTIVE IN NEW YORK CIA FACES BUDGET CRUNCH Billions of dollars of funds for the Central Intelligence Agency and other intelligence agencies have been held up at least temporarily because they are embedded in Defense Department funds that are the subject of an unrelated accounting dispute between Congress and the White House, the Wall Street Journal reported today. The manner in which CIA appropriations are concealed within the Defense Department budget is considered a classified "intelligence method" that must be protected at all costs. "The Central Intelligence Agency in the coming months faces a cash crunch aggravated by a White House decision to finance a portion of the agency's budget through a special $10 billion contingency reserve for military and intelligence activities," wrote David Rogers in the Wall Street Journal ("Budget Cap Risks Cash Crunch for Sensitive Operations at CIA," 01/13/03, p. A4, not available online). In order to relieve pressure on intelligence spending, the House of Representatives last week approved a measure authorizing the Secretary of Defense to transfer up to 2.5 billion dollars for intelligence and special operations programs that are part of the global war on terrorism. See "Making Further Continuing Appropriations, Fiscal Year 2003" (section 5): http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2003_cr/h010803.html WIDER INTELLIGENCE SHARING SOUGHT Pressure to share U.S. intelligence information is growing, due to threats to commercial transportation systems that are used to support the mobilization of U.S. military forces, as well as weapons inspectors' indeterminate search for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, among other factors. "New steps to share secret intelligence warnings with the private freight and passenger sector -- including a password- protected Web site -- are being been put in place" at the United States Transportation Command, according to a New York Times story today. Gen. John W. Handy, the head of Transportation Command, told the Times that even classified reports from the American intelligence community must be made available -- at least in a sanitized form -- to the private sector. Part of his job, he said, is to make that happen quickly. "Our request at my level is to keep pressing to share as much as we possibly can," General Handy told the New York Times. "One wonders how this sanitization is carried out expeditiously," observed Allen Thomson, a former CIA analyst. "Much of the intelligence probably carries CIA and NSA ORCON [originator controlled] restrictions, and the ORCs are not famous for quickly agreeing to let their material go-- sometimes justifiably, often not." See "Officials Reveal Threat to Troops Deploying to Gulf" by Thom Shanker, New York Times, January 13: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/13/politics/13INTE.html Meanwhile, Senator Carl Levin argued that the United States must support the United Nations weapons inspectors in Iraq by providing intelligence on Iraqi weapons of mass destruction programs. "We must share all the information we can on suspect sites," Sen. Levin said on January 9. "If we don't share our information with the U.N. inspectors, or if we prejudge the outcome of these inspections, we will increase the likelihood that we will go to war and increase the risks, short term and long term, to our troops and our Nation." See: http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2003_cr/s010903.html NEW LEGISLATIVE ACTION Senate Democrats led by Sen. Tom Daschle introduced a wide- ranging bill last week that would, among many other things, provide a legislative foundation for the military tribunals that the Bush Administration established unilaterally to try al Qaeda suspects. The bill also address FBI whistleblower protections and other security policy matters. See the introduction of the bill, entitled the "Justice Enhancement and Domestic Security Act of 2003" (S. 22), here: http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2003_cr/s22.html Senator Kyl introduced a formal amendment to one definition in the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act here: http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2003_cr/s123.html "We all say that we're for 'good government,' for openness, integrity, and accountability," said Sen. Joe Lieberman last week, introducing a series of amendments to last year's Homeland Security Act. "So why should the Department of Homeland Security be allowed to exempt its advisory committees from ... requirements [of the Federal Advisory Committee Act]? Why should its advisory committees be allowed to meet in total secret with no public knowledge?" The package of amendments offered by Senator Lieberman, who announced his candidacy for the 2004 Democratic Presidential nomination today, would rescind the secrecy exemption for Homeland Security advisory committees. The amendments would leave the Department's widely criticized Freedom of Information Act exemption unaffected, however. See Senator Lieberman's January 7 introduction of his proposed amendments here: http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/2003/s010703.html JAPANESE IMPERIAL ARMY FILES An alphabetical list of historical record groups related to Japanese Imperial Army war crimes from World War II compiled for the Interagency Working Group on Nazi War Crimes and Japanese Imperial Government Records and transferred to the National Archives may be found here (thanks to MJR): http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/japan-imp-records.htm RADIOACTIVE IN NEW YORK A New York man with Graves' disease, a thyroid disorder, set off radiation alarms in Manhattan subway stations after he was treated with radioactive iodine, according to a recent note in the Journal of the American Medical Association. The man was strip-searched by police who were on the alert for nuclear-armed terrorists. "This patient's experience indicates that radiation detection devices are being installed in public places in New York City and perhaps elsewhere. Patients who have been treated with radioactive iodine or other isotopes may be identified and interrogated by the police because of the radiation they emit." See "Police Detainment of a Patient Following Treatment With Radioactive Iodine" in the December 4, 2002, issue of JAMA here (thanks to AT): http://jama.ama-assn.org/issues/v288n21/ffull/jlt1204-3.html _______________________________________________ Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org with "subscribe" in the body of the message. OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html _______________________ Steven Aftergood Project on Government Secrecy Federation of American Scientists web: www.fas.org/sgp/index.html email: saftergood@fas.org voice: (202) 454-4691
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 13 Re: Daily Mail Article On Alien Abductions - Clarke From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 18:18:41 -0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:56:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Daily Mail Article On Alien Abductions - Clarke >From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 20:23:53 -0400 >Subject: Re: Daily Mail Article On Alien Abductions >>>From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 20:19:35 -0000 >>Subject: Re: Daily Mail Article On Alien Abductions >Why were they being restrained by the 30 year order in the first >place? Was it a typical kneejerk military thing, a typical >bureaucratic kneejerk thing or were they concerned for the >citizenry? It always puzzles me why governments while denying >there is anything to the phenomenon continually hide the >documents about it. Hi Don, It's not just UFO records that are retained in Britain for 30 years before release, it is the case with *all* public records - as laid down in law by the Public Records Act 1958. It's not just UFO documents that have been 'hidden' but just about everything else as well -- from Cabinet records and the pecadillos of our Royals. The relevant section of the Act reads: "Public records in the Public Record Office, other than those to which members of the public had access before their transfer to the Public Record Office, shall not be available for public inspection [until the expiration of the period of thirty years beginning with the first day of January in the year next after that in which they were created, or of such other period], either longer or shorter, as the Lord Chancellor may, with the approval, or at the request, of the Minister or other person, if any, who appears to him to be primarily concerned, for the time being prescribe as respects any particular class of public records." This '30 year rule' has been a fact of life in the UK ever since 1958, hence the huge media scrum at the PRO every 1 January when the next batch of records is released. This year it was like travelling back in time to 1972! All this achieves, in practice, is to hide embarrassing facts and ensures those responsible are either dead or senile before they can be questioned. The problems created by the 30 year hiatus (and remember 'sensitive' records, ie Royal family etc can be held back 50 or even 100 years), have stifled historical research and led to demands for a British Freedom of Information Act. The UK finally gets its fully implemented FOIA in January 2005 but the effects are already being felt in advance, hence the advanced release official records etc. The Act may be a watered down version of the one promised in the Labour party's 1997 manifesto, but it sure seems to be working well so far. However, it should be borne in mind that the FOIA has been made possible through a long campaign on behalf of left-wing newspapers, historians and Labour politicians in the UK. Without that campaign we can be assured the Establishment, and former Chiefs of Defence Staff, would have been happy to see the '30 year rule' status quo continue indefinitely. Best, Dave Clarke
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 13 Re: Daily Mail Article On Alien Abductions - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 15:47:05 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 18:01:44 -0500 Subject: Re: Daily Mail Article On Alien Abductions - Ledger >From: John Harney <magonia@harneyj.freeserve.co.uk> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 17:20:09 -0000 >Subject: Re: Daily Mail Article On Alien Abductions >>From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 20:19:35 -0000 >>Subject: Re: Daily Mail Article On Alien Abductions <snip> >>Hi Nick, >>Possibly the most amusing section of the Daily Mail article is >>the following: >>"With Bruni's encouragement...Lord Hill-Norton, a former Chief >>of the Defence staff, tabled 16 Parliamentary questions in the >>House of Lords - as a result of which the Government released >>more than 200 previously secret files concerning UFOs and >>aliens...one of the files revealed that then Prime Minister >>Winston Churchill wanted the matter investigated in 1952." >>Drawing upon your detailed knowledge of MoD files, could you >>explain to us *exactly* which "200 previously secret files >>concerning UFOs and aliens" have been released as a *direct* >>result of Hill-Norton's questions...names and class references >>please. >Listfolk may be interested in the opinions of an anonymous >writer in "Private Eye" magazine (No. 1071, 10 January-23 >January 2003) concerning the Daily Mail and its fondness for >esoteric subjects. The article reads as follows: >CRANKWATCH >Stars of Wonder >"Scientists from a bizarre religious cult claimed yesterday to >have produced the world's first human clone," a horrified Daily >Mail reported on 28 December. An accompanying editorial >suggested that the views of this cult would make people >"queasy". <snip> Dear John, This is different. An anonymous skeptic. Considering the material he was debunking-most of which [beginning with the Raelians] I fully agree is crap-why be anonymous? Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 13 PRG Update - January 13, 2003 Correction From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:53:56 EST Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 15:38:21 -0500 Subject: PRG Update - January 13, 2003 Correction >From: Stephen G. Bassett <ParadigmRG@aol.com> >Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 21:52:36 EST >Subject: PRG Update - January 13, 2003 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >PRG >January 13, 2003 >Paradigm Research Group Correction. The "Out of the Blue" documentary is at: www.outoftheblue.tv
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 13 Re: Corso - Gehrman From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 10:59:53 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 15:40:29 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Gehrman >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 22:45:11 +0000 >Subject: Re: Corso >>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 10:54:45 -0800 >>Subject: Re: Corso >>Richard, >>I don't tell folks that we should believe Corso. I believe Corso! >>and don't believe he should be dismissed as a liar. >Ed, >Please answer my question. _Why_ do you believe him and on what >basis, given all the clear-cut facts about his mendacity? Because I don't think all the facts are so clear-cut. The only fact that seems clear-cut is the issue of rank inflation. As I've said many times, I don't understand why this happened but agree it is a problem. If you want to use this to discredit his testimony, there's nothing I can do to stop you. But it inhibits your ability understand the complete picture. >>Others should at least read what he says and then decide for >>themselves. This discussion began when Laurel asked an innocent >>question about Corso and some of you gave the impression that >>Corso had been dealt with and there was no need for her to waste >>time on such matters. >>I thought that was a little too much so I offered my evidence >>which makes a point to show that the Corso was a historical fact >>and that he did do the things he said he did during the late >>fifties and early sixties. >How can you possibly justify this statement? He lied and >embellished many or most of his activities during this period. >He clearly did not do many of the things he claimed to do. You'll have to make a list; but please read the book before you do and quote directly from it so we have something to work from. I "offered evidence" and you've again dismissed the VSA and my article on Corso's FBI files. It's this attitude that causes problems in our discussion. My FBI files research is rock solid. That's why we haven't heard a peep from Larry Bryant; and the VSA is a legitimate means of assessing truthfulness. If it weren't, our law enforcement agencies wouldn't be using these devices. If you're saying that Mike's work is inadequate, then get your own VSA. Or better, we could agree on a VSA "expert" and split the cost of having the Art Bell tapes analyzed again. There's certainly nothing wrong with replication, is there? I think this falls under the "scientific method" you're always giving lip service to. >>He worked for Russell and Thurmond and was respected by both. >Then why did Thurmond state unequivocally that he was conned >into writing a favorable foreword thinking it was purely about >Corso's military career, not about his extravagent claims to >have saved the world from alien interlopers? Are you reading the posts on this thread and using the links or are you flying blind? Read the Birnes interview I supplied. You have to follow the discussion. Birnes answered this question! Or is he also a liar? You believe in "Alien interlopers" don't you? Or is your sarcasm here a symptom of "the god you don't believe in is different from the god I don't believe in" syndrome. (only your alien interlopers are the acceptable interlopers; my interlopers, or Corso's interlopers are lies and frauds and hoaxes) >>He was an intelligence player and this can't be discounted or >>dismissed. We know he worked with Gen. Trudeau, that they were >>friends, and that the General had Corso by his side during later >>interviews and during Senate hearings on the MIA and the U-2 >>incident. >Ho-hum! I know and know of all sorts of "intelligence players" >who are some of the least credible people who dump their >opinions on us. We must run is different circles. >>So as long as we're setting the record straight: I don't want >>folks to believe. I want them to open their minds to the >>possibility that Corso's revelations are legitimate. And I want >>everyone to read 'The Day After Roswell'. >Let anyone who wants to read it, the more historically and >militarily informed the better, and let the chips fall where >they may. But let's not pretend that you somehow have some >superior avenue to truth. Once again, what are your criteria for >establishing truth? I start with good ol' basic research, add expert opinion and a dash of technology when possible, and then let it simmer slowly on a list like this. Ain't times grand? Do you have a copy of "The Day After Roswell'? Ed
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 13 Mexico: Maussan's New Extraterrestrial From: Scottm Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:50:28 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 15:42:59 -0500 Subject: Mexico: Maussan's New Extraterrestrial INEXPLICATA The Journal of Hispanic Ufology SOURCE: El Norte (newspaper) DATE: Sunday, January 12, 2003 MAUSSAN'S NEW EXTRATERRESTRIAL by Idalia Barrera A month after having appeared in Monterrey, Jaime Maussan has returned to present new evidence to Monterreyans this Wednesday and Thursday at the "Teatro del Seguro Social". One of the most recent items of evidence is an unknown object seen on Dcember 23 over Mexico City. "It was apparently a meteorite, but it was videotaped for over 5 minutes, making it impossible that it could indeed be a meteorite. It was something unexplained and it fell to earth." "If I had seen it as it was coming down, I would have believed [I was seeing] the end of the world. It is said that it measured about 50 meters, but it could have measured well over a hundred meters if it was 100 kilometers away and progressed at a rate of 600 meters a second. A meteorite travels at 70 kilometers a second," explained an astonished Maussan. Other new evidence to be presented in next week's conference is a photograph taken at El Alamo by Mr. Ivan Geraldo. The photo shows a very small, strange figure of a being that looks at the people who have the camera. "Some say this is a hoax and can prove it; others say it is real and can prove it. Javier Niebla, who is perhaps the best video analyst in Mexico, says it's a fake, while Mr. Dan Airia (sic), an expert in the U.S., says it's real." He explained that person who took the photo never saw the being that appears in teh print, since they were using their camera to scare away a skunk. "And like this, there will be other novelties I will present to the people of Monterrey during our upcoming conference." "I believe it will be a very special year, one in which there will be a considerable number of sightings. Many researchers have forecasted this," says Maussan. ============================== Translation (C) 2003 IHU Special thanks to Fundacion Cosmos A.C.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 13 Re: Corso - Kaeser From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 14:47:46 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 15:47:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Kaeser >From: Laurel Oplatka <calabash2003@webtv.net> >Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 04:31:52 -0800 (PST) >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Subject: Re: Corso >To Ed and List: <snip> >As far as verification for Corso's claims, I just had a >worrisome thought - what if ET, et al, won't allow Corso, Jr. to >divulge any info/documentation? I would only comment that you're attributing power and control to entities that you apparently are predisposed to believe exist. We could suppose all sorts of conspiratorial processes are at work here, but isn't that something that we would want to develop from evidence, rather than try to use our suppositions as evidence in developing our theories. There are a number of researchers who've had contact with Corso, Jr. and I would suspect that his reasoning is based on far more earthly reasons. But, of course, that's only a suspicion. >I find one of the most interesting and fascinating aspects of >Corso's book to be his discussion of the EBE "headband" (p 97-99 >& 109)... a subject I'll mention in a future post which may very >well get me scorned off this List. Fear not. It takes quite a bit to be scorned off this List. I find Corso's tale to be interesting, but certainly not supported by any hard evidence and his testimony has been severely tainted by his exaggerations and (apparently) purposeful misstatements. It is good to see both sides in this argument, but I wouldn't be dismissive of those who are quite skeptical. Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 13 Re: Corso - Ed Gehrman From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:10:14 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 15:57:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Ed Gehrman >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:03:06 -0400 >Subject: Re: Corso >>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 18:20:23 -0800 >>Subject: Re: Corso <snip> >>From: >>http://www.caus.org/membercomments/mc062900.shtml >>"Hand was a CIA operative; Col. Corso had been the military >>Operations Coordinating Board's delegate to the CIA group >>planning the 1954 Guatemalan coup. He and Corso had discussed >>the serious connections between Oswald, the FBI and the Cuban >>government. Corso probably didn't know what to think or who to >>trust, certainly not the FBI who had at first denied any >>connection to Oswald but then had to admit that Oswald had >>contacted one their agents, James Hosty. What would you have >>done under those life and death circumstances? This was a matter >>of a Presidential assassination and some factions within the >>government were seriously worried about a coup." >Ed, The National Security Council is a very important Body. It >had many groups connected with it. Membership on the NSC is >determined by law. The Ike Library has 250,000 pages of NSC >material. Some is still classified. There are minutes, agendas, >etc listing who attended meetings, topics for the next meeting >etc. Corso was NOT a member of the NSC, ever. He according to >the Ike Library never attended a meeting.The batboy for the >baseball team does attend and participate in the games. He does >not have the same stature as the on field players or the >Manager. Corso was not a policy wheel. He was a staff member and Eisenhower's aide. He wasn't a policy wheel, he was an Army intelligence agent; he worked out of the White House. He did what ever he was ordered to do. We don't know enough to recreate his exact job, but I think if Birnes would give us access to the remainder of the bio information, then many of these questions could be answered. My research says he's a player. He's not a "bigshot' but he was there. >>Your insistence that Corso wasn't a "member" is what post-modern >>deconstruction is all about. It's these fuzzy edges that need >>to be studied. >I repeat Corso was not a member of the very prestigious National >Security Council. There is nothing fuzzy here.He was a liason >man. I have letters about him. Clearly he wasn't a big player >nor an NSC member. But he claimed he was. Therefore he lied... >like Bob Lazar falsely claiming he had an MS degree in physics >from MIT. He lied. He may not have understood this splitting of hairs. In his book he says he's a staff member. But at least we can agree on that as you've indicated above. >You make it sound as though there is no difference between a >congressional aide and a congressman. But there is a big >difference. All I'm saying was that he was there and a player. His actual role is unclear. >>Was he a player? Yes! Was he a member? We don't have enough >>information. Is there record of him being at these meetings? No, >>but is that enough to discount his contribution when other >>historians (not UFO researchers) assert that Corso was a major >>player? >What are these vast contributions?. Is everybody who works for >the US Government in DC a 'player', perhaps because they live >three doors down from somebody who is? I'm not saying he made major contributions while at NSC. His contributions are confirming the existence of the Roswell debris an his revelations concerning the seeding of the Roswell technology. His book is not a cut and dried history but one man's account and interpretation. I happen to believe he tied to tell the truth about these events, even though he may have made many mistakes and even a few exaggerations. >>>2. Corso talked about introducing the Integrated circuit into >>>industry. The Nobel Prize for Physics for 2000 was awarded to >>>Jack S. Kilby, who invented the integrated circuit while working >>>for Texas Instruments in 1958 at least 2 years before Corso's >>>short tenure at the Army FTD. >>You need to cite the exact quote that says this. My reading of >>this chapter doesn't indicate that he "introduced" the >>integrated chip, but helped in on-going research through >>contracts and relevant information. I think he indicates that >>the chip was already around by the time he came on the scene. >>Now if I'm correct, does that mean that you're a liar and that >>we should disregard all your contributions? >Kilby's discovery has been written up widely especially since he >received the Nobel Prize in physics.The roster of the FTD >indicates that in June 1960 there were 2people in FTD with Corso >being the junior officer. He was not a scientist or an engineer. >Where is there any evidence that he had anything to do with >Kilby's work ( or any of the other work he bragged about?), the >most important part of which was done in 1958. Perhaps you have >records of R and D contracts from the FTD to Texas Instruments? "Corso talked about introducing the Integrated circuit into industry" This is your statement. It is incorrect and shows you haven't read this chapter. It's a very interesting chapter and full of information but there's not one place that Corso takes credit for "introducing" integrated circuits. By implying that he's lying here, you distort the entire message of the chapter. You've written clearly that Corso lied about this. So show me the lie! You won't be able to because it's not there. You indicate that you've read this chapter, which obviously you haven't, and still insist that you're correct even though I've pointed out your error? >>>Incidentally, Birnes admitted to me that he wrote the material >>>about Roswell because he thought the public didn't know enough >>>about Roswell. Birnes knew a lot because he was apparently >>>agenting a book about Roswell for Bill Moore and Jaime Shandera. >>Does this mean that the mistakes (lies) in this content can no >>longer be regarded as lies and atributed to Corso? >>>Did Corso lie? YES. >>Well you haven't shown that he has. I'd be careful here if I >>were you or Kevin. >>The Randle-Friedman dialogues sure left some questions in my >>mind about both of you. >Just what are those, Ed? I made the effort to get FTD >information from the Army Archives and Corso information from >the Ike Library and Kilby info from the internet including the >Nobel Foundation. I have spent time with Corso, Birnes, Corso's >son. Did you call him a liar to his face? There's nothing wrong with your research except it ignores the nuance of the situation. >One would think that when Kevin and I agree about somebody >lying that would be a unique event worth noting. After all we >have demonstrated on this List that we often have major >disagreements. In my opinion, you both have major blind spots so I don't happen to trust either of your opinions. I enjoyed and appreciated your research on MJ-12 and the MJ-12 players and Kevin has certainly helped me out on two occasions but I don't think either one of you has cornered the truth. >I suspect many on this List have serious questions about you >as well, Ed. If they do then let them ask away. My UFO research and other efforts are an open book to those who are interested. Do a Google search. You'll see what I'm all about and how I go about my investigations. Ed
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 13 Re: Daily Mail Article On Alien Abductions - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 16:06:43 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 18:05:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Daily Mail Article On Alien Abductions - Ledger >From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 18:18:41 -0000 >Subject: Re: Daily Mail Article On Alien Abductions >>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 20:23:53 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Daily Mail Article On Alien Abductions <snip> >>Why were they being restrained by the 30 year order in the first >>place? Was it a typical kneejerk military thing, a typical >>bureaucratic kneejerk thing or were they concerned for the >>citizenry? It always puzzles me why governments while denying >>there is anything to the phenomenon continually hide the >>documents about it. >Hi Don, >It's not just UFO records that are retained in Britain for 30 >years before release, it is the case with *all* public records - >as laid down in law by the Public Records Act 1958. It's not >just UFO documents that have been 'hidden' but just about >everything else as well -- from Cabinet records and the >pecadillos of our Royals. The relevant section of the Act >reads: >"Public records in the Public Record Office, other than those >to which members of the public had access before their transfer >to the Public Record Office, shall not be available for public >inspection [until the expiration of the period of thirty years >beginning with the first day of January in the year next after >that in which they were created, or of such other period], >either longer or shorter, as the Lord Chancellor may, with the >approval, or at the request, of the Minister or other person, if >any, who appears to him to be primarily concerned, for the time >being prescribe as respects any particular class of public >records." >This '30 year rule' has been a fact of life in the UK ever >since 1958, hence the huge media scrum at the PRO every 1 >January when the next batch of records is released. This year it >was like travelling back in time to 1972! All this achieves, in >practice, is to hide embarrassing facts and ensures those >responsible are either dead or senile before they can be >questioned. >The problems created by the 30 year hiatus (and remember >'sensitive' records, ie Royal family etc can be held back 50 or >even 100 years), have stifled historical research and led to >demands for a British Freedom of Information Act. >The UK finally gets its fully implemented FOIA in January 2005 >but the effects are already being felt in advance, hence the >advanced release official records etc. The Act may be a watered >down version of the one promised in the Labour party's 1997 >manifesto, but it sure seems to be working well so far. >However, it should be borne in mind that the FOIA has been made >possible through a long campaign on behalf of left-wing >newspapers, historians and Labour politicians in the UK. >Without that campaign we can be assured the Establishment, and >former Chiefs of Defence Staff, would have been happy to see the >'30 year rule' status quo continue indefinitely. Hi Dave, A sad fact of life in the Parliamentary system. Same here,in Canada, perhaps to a slightly lesser degree but it's a self serving dictum, serving those who rule rather than those ruled. it encourages corruption. You note that the Royals enjoy a 50 year rule which ran out on the "Queen Mom" and her little letter to Hitler during WW II. That sure got buried quickly last year. Even in 2005 when the FOIA comes to life, there will be the usual stalling and obfuscation on behalf of the bureaucrats. best, Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 13 Re: Corso - Bennett From: Colin Bennett <sharkley@panzerben.fsworld.co.uk> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 23:43:30 -0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 19:03:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Bennett Why do people write about Corso in such flat uninspired tones? Most contributions sound like manic-depressive driving instructors discussing their mortgage payments and ingrowing toenails. Has no-one ever seen the The Day After Roswell as Literature, symbol, art form? Has no one seen it indeed as one of the most exciting UFO books ever written and one that puts more sober, dull and pedestrian tomes to shame? Has not anyone anything to say about the narrative, the colour, the characters, the themes? As far as a qualitative assessment of the book goes, it is discussed as if it were a dead cat wrapped in a rag. Discussing the book and Corso himself in terms of begging letters to the maiden aunts of the NSA or cautious requests for dusty document boxes is the kind of dismal, humourless clerk- like narrow vision that has given Ufology a bad name. It suggests that the kind of factspeil commissars who are putting the deviant Corso on the Maoist show-trial stand are exactly the opposite to him in character: cautious, conservative, politic, linear, and uninspired, people who know nothing about how to properly assess a published text in terms it properly offers Ufology must lift his head from this mundane track, come to a better understanding of what Literature is and what it means as vision, instead of revealing critical incompetence as regards the proper critical assessment of Literature. Corso's book is big stuff, and these mouse-nibbling cloakroom- ticket number discussions don't get anywhere near to what it means. Colin (Bad Man) Bennett
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 13 Elite Planet-Hunter Sleuths Worlds For Cal From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 19:38:50 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 19:38:50 -0500 Subject: Elite Planet-Hunter Sleuths Worlds For Cal http://www.bayarea.com/mld/cctimes/4934782.htm Posted on Mon, Jan. 13, 2003 Elite Planet-Hunter Sleuths Worlds For Cal By Guy Ashley CONTRA COSTA TIMES BERKELEY - Star Trek couldn't hold his interest, and neither could reports of UFO sightings that would crop up periodically in the news. Rather, Geoff Marcy's journey to scientific stardom began as a classic tale of a boy, his telescope and a fondness for following Saturn in the San Fernando Valley sky. It was from this heartfelt suburban curiosity that Marcy would go on to gain advanced degrees, expertise in such esoteric subjects as the chemical composition of stars and, in recent years, a marquee name in the field of astronomy. Yet, despite the academic dues he has paid, naysayers always seemed to nip at Marcy's heels, asserting he was just a science fiction nut whose singular goal was to prove ET is out there. The skeptics came by virtue of Marcy's decision 20 years ago to begin searching for planets orbiting distant stars. Colleagues thought it was professional suicide -- these were the days, after all, when the only planets known to exist were the earth and eight other orbs circling the sun. "When I described to other scientists that we might try to hunt for planets around other stars, they would look down at their shoes, shuffle their feet, and change the subject," Marcy said. "Among serious scientists, you didn't talk about pyramid power, little green men, or ESP, any more than about other worlds." But skeptics have been silenced in recent years by a string of startling discoveries by Marcy and his longtime collaborator, Paul Butler. The two, brought together at San Francisco State in 1986, have since gained acclaim as the world's greatest planet hunters, a title gained by discovering the lion's share of planets that have been shown to exist outside Earth's solar system. Of the 98 extrasolar planets documented by science, more than two-thirds were discovered by the team led by Marcy, a UC Berkeley astronomy professor, and Butler, of the Carnegie Institution of Washington. They rocked the scientific world last year when they announced the discovery of a planet astoundingly similar to Jupiter in size and relationship to the star it orbits. The find cranked up speculation that finding an Earthlike orb inhabited by intelligent life was only a matter of time. That's because astronomers long ago came to believe that Jupiter plays an essential role in Earth's survival. The massive, gaseous planet is five times farther from the sun than Earth. Due to its impressive size, more than 300 times that of Earth, Jupiter is believed to exert gravitational force so great that it gobbles up comets, asteroids and other celestial matter that otherwise would litter the solar system's interior, and eventually obliterate tiny planet Earth. The discovery in the constellation Cancer suggests the presence of a planetary system stable enough to support rocky bodies closer in to the central star, including a so-called "Goldilocks world,'" where conditions are neither too hot nor too cold but "just right"' for life. The discoveries have made Marcy an astronomy superstar and an oft-quoted expert sought by journalists throughout the world. Marcy, 48, can only shrug when asked about his soaring profile. It all seems so unlikely, he says, especially when you consider he labored in academic obscurity for more than a decade before the onset of fame. He was teaching astronomy at S.F. State, mulling possible planet-searching techniques, when Butler, then a physics undergraduate and chemistry student, dropped by his office, expressed an interest in astronomy and asked Marcy if he needed help. They began work on an innovative technique to locate faraway planets by detecting their effects on the stars they orbit. The two men not only had to endure the dismissals of dubious colleagues, but also worked long, long hours. "Finding planets took all of our time," said Marcy, who cites the task's demands as the reason he did not marry until the age of 39 and does not have any children. Marcy said he works most weekends, and averages 12-hour days, though he takes two hours daily to play tennis. In fact, time spent star hunting undermines one of the fringe benefits of Marcy's job -- monthly trips to Hawaii, where he spends three-day stints at the W.M. Keck Observatory, using the world's largest telescopes. The work involves grueling overnight shifts. Sleep comes only during the day. There is no time for the beach. Marcy's planet-searching method involves following stars with powerful telescopes and using spectrometers to monitor wavelength changes in the light the stars emit. The changes in light are due to a "wobble" of a star caused by the gravitational tug of the orbiting planet. Through techniques pioneered by Marcy and Butler, scientists can determine a planet's size, its distance from the host star and the planet's orbit path by tracking light-spectrum changes. The technique has been shown to work with great precision, even though planet-hunters can never see the planet being tracked, lost in the host star's glare. "It's like watching the dog owner holding a leash without necessarily being able to see the dog," Marcy says. "You watch how the owner's getting jerked around to determine how massive the dog is and what kind of path the dog is taking." Because the technique requires a planet to make an entire orbit around its host star, confirming a planet's presence requires patience. Though they had been monitoring the host star for more than a decade, Marcy and Butler had to wait until this year to announce the presence of the Jupiter-like planet, known as 55 Cnc d, because it takes 13 years to complete its orbit. The technique was greeted with some skepticism, but has since been accepted as a pioneering innovation. The critics who remained were largely silenced in November 2001, when the Hubble Space Telescope confirmed the existence of a planet orbiting HD 209458, a sunlike star 150 light years from Earth in the constellation Pegasus. The planet's existence had been announced two years earlier by the Marcy team, which detected the planet through its signature "wobble technique.'' "This is not science fiction any more," said Bruce Margon, associate director for science with the Space Telescope Science Institute in Baltimore, the nonprofit organization that manages the Hubble project for NASA. Margon said discovery of extrasolar planets was the Holy Grail sought by stargazers for hundreds of years. "To me, it's very exciting that this has happened in the past 10 years, during my lifetime," he said. Marcy is quick to note the first such planet was found in October 1995 by a team of Swiss scientists using a wobble- technique variation. Realizing they had been scooped, Marcy and Butler rifled through reams of their own data, and within three months, they confirmed the existence of the second and third extrasolar planets known to humankind. They have since found 70 such planets, including the first multiple-planet systems outside our solar system. The discoveries have stoked speculation about the existence of rocky, Earthlike planets teeming with life. So far, the limitations of the "wobble technique" have meant that only large, gaseous planets have been detected because they exert enough gravitational tug on luminous stars to be monitored. But technique refinements have Marcy hoping that smaller planets, perhaps as small as 10 times Earth's size, will be detected in coming years. Plans for more space-based telescopes in the coming decades hold the hope of huge leaps in humankind's understanding of planetary systems other than our own. Within a universe so vast, Marcy believes, one can never say never to the question of intelligent life on other planets. But existing evidence stacks up against a universe with parallel civilizations. Scientists have wondered about extraterrestrial life forms for centuries, but even with space exploration and highly advanced instruments, no evidence has been found to support their existence. "I've looked through a lot of telescopes in my life, and I've never seen a little saucer fly by," Marcy said. ===== BIOGRAPHY - NAME: Geoff Marcy - AGE: 48 - OCCUPATION: Professor of astronomy, UC Berkeley - RESIDENT OF: Berkeley - IN THE NEWS: Marcy leads the world's premier planet-hunting team, which is responsible for discovering two-thirds of the planets known to exist outside Earth's solar system. [UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 13 Flying Saucer Society Sought Peak Experience On From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 20:29:04 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 20:29:04 -0500 Subject: Flying Saucer Society Sought Peak Experience On http://www.latimes.com/ January 12, 2003 Flying Saucer Society Sought Peak Experience on Baldy By Cecilia Rasmussen, Times Staff Writer When influential Swiss psychiatrist Carl Jung said that "California is classic saucer country," he wasn't talking about dinnerware. Jung, whose name is second only to Sigmund Freud's in psychiatry, believed in UFOs, theorizing that flying saucers' round shape was a symbol of unity and healing. And Jung was right about California, at least when it comes to a group called the Aetherius Society, which for more than four decades has met frequently atop Mt. Baldy in the San Gabriel Mountains. Members believe that a flying saucer once hovered there to charge the mountain with spiritual energy through their leader. Above the clouds on this wind-scoured peak, visible from most of Los Angeles, the foot-high letters GK are still emblazoned on a jagged ridge of granite. They are the initials of the group's founder, an Englishman named George King. It was there, in 1959, that Aetherians believe a flying saucer stopped overhead to invest King with a great surge of force that flowed through him into the mountain itself, according to the group's director, Paul Nugent. The Aetherius Society, which says its name means "one who travels through the ether," as in the ether of space, was founded in London in 1955, eight years after rumors of an alien saucer's crash-landing in Roswell, N.M., sparked an enduring fascination with UFOs. King, a London cabby and yoga master, said he received his calling through "cosmic transmissions" from space aliens, who guided him to 19 "holy" mountains around the world, including Mt. Kosciusko in Australia and several in the United States, including Mt. Tallac near Lake Tahoe, Mt. Adams in New Hampshire and Castle Peak in Colorado. Finally, he reached Mt. Baldy, which was No. 10 on his list. King eventually opened a headquarters in Hollywood. A group of small buildings on the corner of Afton Place and El Centro Avenue still serves as the group's temple and residences, the flagship of its other branches nationwide. Newport Beach, Claremont and Santa Barbara also have branches. The group claims a few thousand members worldwide and a few hundred in Southern California. King, who died of stomach cancer in Santa Barbara in 1997, dedicated his life to spreading the word about UFOs, writing books and a newsletter, making speeches at UFO meetings to promote his brand of faith, and trying to heal the sick through the power of prayer. Aetherians say their beliefs mix elements of Christianity, Buddhism and New Age philosophy. They cite the late Mother Teresa as a particularly advanced human. "The thing that you call L-O-V-E is just as much an energy as the thing you call electricity; it just operates on a different frequency and it does a different job," King told listeners in 1973. King was born in Shropshire, England, in 1919. During World War II, while serving in the London Fire Brigade, he witnessed the terror and destruction of Nazi bombings. When the war ended, he tested race cars and drove a taxi during the day, spending his nights mastering yoga and, his followers say, levitating himself during trances. King said that in 1954, while washing dishes in his London apartment, he heard a disembodied voice declare, "Prepare yourself! You are to become the voice of Interplanetary Parliament." From that initial contact, which he said was with a Venusian called Aetherius, the Aetherius Society was born. It was Aetherius, King told followers, who telepathically told him to gather believers and trek to the top of 19 holy mountains. There, he could become a conduit to "charge" the mountains with spiritual force, concentrating energy in the mountains so the peaks could transmit vibes of peace, prosperity and harmony. A handful of believers followed him at first, but by the time he got to Los Angeles in 1959, their numbers had grown to about 70. Mt. Baldy, he told his followers, was on the list of holy mountains because it was a towering presence and accessible to millions of people. From Los Angeles, King traveled to spread his philosophy. He published the messages he said he received from cosmic beings -- including Jesus Christ -- in a bustling, in-house biannual publication called Cosmic Voice, which is still published. Mt. Baldy is one of the Southland's dominant landmarks, the 10,064-foot queen of the San Gabriels. It was officially designated Mt. San Antonio by the U.S. Board on Geographic Names in 1891, but a handwritten notation on the old records adds: "Locally known as Baldy," for its bare, wind-swept heights. Some historians say it was named informally for Spanish settler Antonio Maria Lugo and his nearly 30,000-acre rancho at the foot of the mountains. Others say it was named by the San Gabriel Mission padres after St. Anthony of Padua. In the 1870s, San Antonio Canyon and the nearby high country swarmed with gold seekers who dubbed the towering peak an earthier "Old Baldy." Many religious traditions -- including Native Americans and New Age believers -- consider Mt. Baldy holy, believing that it emits constructive and peaceful vibes. Environmentalists honor it as a shrine to the wilderness. Aetherians are not alone in believing that aliens will plop their spaceships down on Earth sometime in the future. The Raelians, the religious group linked to the controversial Clonaid company and its alleged human clones, believe that it has already happened -- and that the touring extraterrestrials seeded the human race. The El Cajon-based Unarius Academy of Science also predicted visitations -- specifically, that 32 spaceships from the planet Myton would land on Earth in 2001. Undeterred by the aliens' failure to be punctual, believers remain confident that the landings are imminent. Aetherians bristle at comparisons to other UFO-believing groups, particularly the Heaven's Gate cult, 39 members of which committed suicide in 1997 in the belief that they could board a spaceship to travel to another life. "Suicide is not a solution to life's problems. Under the law of karma and reincarnation, one will have to face those same difficulties again," said Nugent, the Aetherius Society director. Despite King's death in 1997, believers say they still feel his presence and carry on in his absence, conducting weekly prayer and healing services that invoke extraterrestrial intervention. Earth, they believe, has a spiritual energy crisis, and the solution is to cooperate with wiser aliens from other worlds. The Hollywood group consists of about 70 people, many of whom moved here from England. Members include teachers, accountants and business owners. Several times a year, they trek to the top of Mt. Baldy, where they hold their hands aloft and, to the resonating Hindu chant of "om," direct the mountain's alleged energy to help all mankind. A few years ago, at their first designated "holy" mountain -- Holdstone Down in Devon, England -- the Aetherians directed cosmic rays to the drought in Sudan. A few days later, they say, it miraculously rained. Nugent says the Aetherius Society is not a cult because it does not try to recruit. Members live in their own houses, have their own non-Aetherian friends and are not required to turn over their life savings. "The only energy crisis which exists on this Earth is the spiritual energy crisis," King said in a lecture during the 1973 oil crisis. "Put that right and no other shortage can exist."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 13 Should Media Have Covered Raelians' Cloning From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 20:48:00 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 20:48:00 -0500 Subject: Should Media Have Covered Raelians' Cloning http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0301/11/rs.00.html CNN's 'Reliable Sources' Should Media Have Covered Raelians' Cloning Claims? Aired January 11, 2003 - 18:30 ET THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. HOWARD KURTZ, HOST: Copy-cat journalism: Why are the media giving so much attention to a man who believes in space aliens and his totally unproven claims of cloning babies? Is the coverage of this possible hoax starting to resemble the pages of a bad supermarket tabloid? And why did a former ABC newsman lend his credibility to the Clonaid crowd? Also, the newspaper that blew the Tom Daschle story, and our viewers sound off on media bias. Welcome to RELIABLE SOURCES, where we turn a critical lens on the media. I'm Howard Kurtz. The media's cloning obsession began with a spectacular claim at a press conference carried live by CNN, MSNBC and Fox. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BRIGITTE BOISSELIER, CLONAID: I was very, very pleased to note that the first baby clone is born. She was born yesterday at 11:55 a.m. in the country where she was born, so this will not give you more details about the location. She's fine. We call her Eve. (END VIDEO CLIP) KURTZ: And the press, especially the cable networks, couldn't get enough of this sensational unproven story that got a little bit stranger and a little less believable every day. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: What is the point, do you believe, of cloning? RAEL, RAELIAN MOVEMENT LEADER: Right now cloning a baby is just a first step. For me, it's not so important. It's a good step, but my ultimate goal is to give humanity eternal life through cloning. That's my goal. (END VIDEO CLIP) KURTZ: And just who is Rael? Inquiring minds in the media wanted to know. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST, "CROSSFIRE": The Web site says that you met aliens and that they were four feet tall with olive skin and really kind of funny and happy. Why aren't we -- and we are presumably cloned from them -- why aren't homo sapiens four feet tall with olive skin and exuding humor and harmony? RAEL (through translator): Yes, these people are not alien. They are the Elohim of the Bible, these extraterrestrials who came on the Earth a long time ago. (END VIDEO CLIP) KURTZ: Rael even insisted that CNN's Connie Chung address him like a religious leader. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CONNIE CHUNG, CNN ANCHOR: Your holiness, isn't this really a hoax? RAEL: I don't think so. We have every reason to believe that Dr. Boisselier really did a great job trying to set... (CROSSTALK) CHUNG: Why do you have every reason to believe that this woman, Brigitte Boisselier, has, indeed, told the truth? RAEL: Because I trust her. (END VIDEO CLIP) KURTZ: So given the utter lack of evidence that the two, cloned babies, claimed by their group Clonaid even exist, has the press been duped? Well, joining us now, Anne Applebaum, editorial writer at "The Washington Post" and author of the forthcoming book, "Gulag: A History"; in Los Angeles, Tim Rutten, media columnist for the "Los Angeles Times"; and in Atlanta, CNN's medical correspondence, Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Welcome. Tim Rutten, you've called the coverage of this story absurd. Are you saying that this group deserves no coverage at all? TIM RUTTEN, LOS ANGELES TIMES: No. I think it probably deserves proportional coverage, which is generally what it obtained in the three major newspapers in America. KURTZ: But not on television you're going to say. RUTTEN: But not on television, I'm afraid, Howard. And in fact, I think that one of the things that occurred, I think, as Orville Shell (ph), the Dean of the Graduate School of Journalism at Berkeley described it, this thing entered the media's hard disk like a computer virus, and the point of entry, unfortunately, wasn't the supermarket tabloids; it was cable news. KURTZ: Going straight to television, straight to the viewers. Anne Applebaum, you write that CNN conducted a, quote, "long, deadly, earnest" interview with Brigitte Boisselier. What's wrong with pressing the person making the claims? Isn't that what journalists do? ANNE APPLEBAUM, WASHINGTON POST: First of all, I thought her multicolored hair ought to have been a giveaway. And there ought to have been a moment of -- a paused moment before the interview was even conducted. These people have no proof. They didn't present their claims in a scientific journal. They... KURTZ: Scientific journal? They had no records, no names... APPLEBAUM: No records, no names, no baby. KURTZ: ... no picture of the baby, no DNA. APPLEBAUM: ... no baby. And they were being treated as if they had some kind of serious claim to have cloned a baby. My question is whether the interviews needed to be conducted at all. KURTZ: Sanjay Gupta, CNN interviewed Rael or Brigitte Boisselier five times. Now, isn't that going overboard for a story that, as we speak here, still has not a shred of evidence? SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, I think that there was a lot of interest in the story, certainly when the press conference was held. And there was immediately, Howard, within minutes after the press conference was over, a lot of skepticism. And a lot of skepticism was revealed, again, in many of those interviews that you saw with Dr. Boisselier and Rael. And I think interviewing them and maybe actually letting them talk, actually explain or not explain any of the proof that they didn't have about cloning was an important part of the story, as well. The whole story was, kind of, interesting. The fact that, as you mentioned, Rael's story was, kind of, interesting, although far- fetched, no question. But I think a lot of the coverage you saw on CNN and a lot of the other networks, immediately after the news conference was skeptical and very questioning. KURTZ: Interesting, no question. Proven, obviously not. Tim Rutten, why did so many newspapers -- not the "Los Angeles Times," but certainly other papers around the country -- put this story on the front page? Was it for the sheer entertainment value? RUTTEN: Well, you know, I think this is an example of, if I may, Howard, the American media does two things very well. It covers things that go boom, like wars and natural disasters, acts of man and God, and consumerism, who is accumulating what and in what quantities and how much they are paying for it. Those thing we do fairly well. Other things we're quite spotty at. One of the things we're worst at is covering ideas, and one of the things we're worst of all at is covering any idea that calls itself a religion. And these people shrewdly, you know, found what would be in temporal terms the soft underbelly of the American media. Two days after Christmas, when newsrooms are empty, news editors are basically, you know, third- string people... KURTZ: Very easy to fill the vacuum at that point. RUTTEN: Absolutely. KURTZ: And interestingly, you quoted somebody from the San Francisco Chronicle saying, "Well, we put it on the front page because it was all over CNN and television was making a big deal out of it." So it's, sort of, a circular process. Now, Anne Applebaum, "The Washington Post" didn't put the initial story on the front page, but it put Boisselier's picture on the front page. Was that a mistake? APPLEBAUM: I think it was part of the same process. I mean, it was, sort of, once it's in the news, then it's OK to write about it no matter how wacky it is. KURTZ: And is there something wrong with that kind of reasoning with editors (ph)? APPLEBAUM: I do think there is something wrong with it. I thought it was a strange -- it was just a strange decision to treat this story with any seriousness at all. I mean, it belonged, you know, maybe in the Style section as a kind of human nature story about people who believe in UFOs. KURTZ: Or on the comic's page? APPLEBAUM: Or on the comic's page. That would have been a good place for it, too. KURTZ: But obviously, it got more serious treatment than that. Now, Sanjay Gupta, you actually interviewed Brigitte Boisselier and Rael. And I wonder, what was that like to try to pin them down, because -- I'm not trying to make a pun here -- but they both, kind of, come off as space cadets and give these long, rambling answers? GUPTA: Yes, there's no question. I think a lot -- they, sort of, spoke for themselves, in terms of trying to address the skepticism that, I think, both Anne and Tim are talking about. But, you know, I have to take a little issue, though, with the fact that Anne's saying that something belongs in the Style section. I think cloning, as an idea, as Tim said, is a very important idea, it's a legislative idea. The president talks about it all the time. And it's important to remember that today's hoaxes may be tomorrow's possibility. I think it was really important, after that press conference took place and a lot of people knew about that, to spend time educating the public about cloning, the difference between reproductive cloning and therapeutic cloning, to take that as an opportunity in part to debunk, which we did do on CNN, both Boisselier, as well as Rael, but also to educate a bit as well. KURTZ: But isn't there a distinction to be made between serious discussion of serious scientists cloning Dolly the sheep or other animal experiments, and people who show up and say, "Hey, we've got two baby girls here. But by the way, we're not going to tell you anything about them"? GUPTA: And we didn't know that before we started covering the press conference live, obviously. And by that time, a lot of people were already asking a lot of questions as soon as the press conference ended. We didn't know what they were going to say. They didn't tell us -- we didn't know whether they were going to have any proof. We didn't think they were. We just didn't know before the press conference actually took place. But, you know, again, today's hoax is tomorrow's possibility. And people know that cloning is out there. It's a possibility. People worry about it. And I think that's why it captured the public's imagination. Unfortunately, the Raelians probably have given cloning a black eye and the media may have contributed to that to a certain extent. But this press conference was certainly something a lot of people were interested in. KURTZ: Now, Tim Rutten, you did some research on the Raelians, a very interesting Web site. And you discovered that Rael has said, among other things, that Israel is engaged in state terrorism and that the United States committed the greatest act of terrorism at Hiroshima. Why is that relevant to the scientific question of whether or not this is a legitimate cloning claim or not? RUTTEN: Well, I think when people undertake or claim to undertake their intervention in this scientific process on religious grounds, it's fair to ask, well, exactly what is the nature of this purported religion. And frankly, you know, I'm sitting here in your studios on Sunset Boulevard in Hollywood, which is a fairly wild (UNINTELLIGIBLE) part of America, but I can go out on the street corners here and find people with, you know, stories equally plausible with the Raelians. As a general rule, I think journalists probably ought to avoid people who speak to -- claim to have spoken with people from UFOs, and as an even more general rule, I certainly question going to a live press conference where you don't know what they're going to say and putting it on the air. KURTZ: Well, wait a second. I mean, television covers live press conferences with politicians and other leaders and self- appointed spokesmen all the time. You can't always know in advance what they're going to say. RUTTEN: Well, that's correct, but I think if you're dealing with people who operate a Web site where they have animated recreations of their encounters with space aliens who look like post-op Michael Jacksons, I think you can probably get pretty good odds that whatever they say is going to be less than credible. And given the serious nature of cloning and the profound scientific and moral questions that it raises, how much more dubious is it to allow these people to speak about it in this utterly unfettered way. KURTZ: Let me toss in a viewer e-mail. William from Boston wondering whether the cloning story was actually planted by press agents because reporters are too lazy to do real work. And what about the rest of the media's rush to, well, clone the story after it first appeared? One wonders if this whole thing hasn't been a spoof to show the public how foolish and easily manipulated the U.S. news media have become. Anne Applebaum? APPLEBAUM: I had a similar reaction. I first became really aware of the story when I happened to be standing in a place where there was a bank of television screens, all different stations, and every single one of them had Brigitte Boisselier, the scientist, on it, and I just looked at it and I thought, "This is some kind of hoax." I wanted to pick up something that Sanjay said a minute ago about the importance of cloning as a subject and why we should all be interested in it. What worries me about this story is that, yes, cloning is very important, but if this is the kind of thing that gets news, how will we know when something of genuine -- when a genuine piece of progress is made? I mean, scientific experiments actually tend to be rather boring, and there's -- you know, they go step by... KURTZ: Incremental. APPLEBAUM: Incremental, step by step. It's a little bit at a time. And then suddenly there's -- you know, we know a whole lot more than we used to know before. But if this is the kind of thing that gets public attention, how will we be able to recognize a real scientific story when we see it? KURTZ: With the benefit of hindsight, Sanjay Gupta, would you have not covered that initial press conference live? And how we're two weeks into the story, still no evidence, why doesn't the media just pull the plug on this thing until some evidence is forthcoming? GUPTA: Well, I think if we had known in hindsight that there was going to be no proof at this press conference, I think that we probably would have pulled the plug. KURTZ: So did you feel, kind of, snookered at the end of it? GUPTA: Yes. I think that we did. And right away, I think literally within minutes I was actually on the air at that point, we started asking some tough questions and being skeptical. But, you know, I think, you know, Howard, one of the things -- this is probably an organization that's decidedly non- legitimate, but it's probably likely that the first human clone is not going to come from a Michigan, a Wash. U. or a Stanford, a legitimate organization, it's probably going to come from somewhat of a fringe organization because of the nature of the opposition toward reproductive cloning. But most scientists in the community believe it's actually going to happen at some point. When is it going to happen, where is it going to happen, who's going to do it? I don't think any of us can answer these questions. And also, you know, not to lend any more credibility to the Raelians, because I agree with both Anne and Tim on this, but, you know, we're still not 100 percent convinced that they didn't do it. I don't believe that they did. But we're still not 100 percent convinced they didn't do it. They have their reasons for not saying that -- for not providing the DNA evidence... KURTZ: Right. GUPTA: ... but there is still -- it's still, sort of, lingering out there and there are people... KURTZ: I would argue that the media should not be in the position of having to prove a negative; that this group should be in the position of having to prove a positive. So far they haven't done that, yet they continue to get plenty of coverage. We have to hold it there. When we come back, why did a former ABC news reporter lend his credibility to the cloning story? Plus, your viewer e-mail. And was he or wasn't he running for president: The newspaper that got it wrong. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) KURTZ: Welcome back to RELIABLE SOURCES. Former ABC News science editor Michael Guillen was at the original Clonaid news conference, saying he would arrange for the independent DNA testing of the supposed baby girl. But Guillen later bowed out of his role in this bizarre tale, then went on television to defend himself. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CHARLES GIBSON, "GOOD MORNING AMERICA": ... privileged information. And then you said there's three reasons not to dismiss them. But you didn't answer the question. Do you think they cloned the baby or not? MICHAEL GUILLEN: I think that there's a chance that they have. I also think that there's a chance this could be a hoax. (END VIDEO CLIP) KURTZ: Anne Applebaum, did Michael Guillen's presence lend a, sent of, aura of respectability or credibility to these cloning acts? APPLEBAUM: I think it did, at least to start out with. Then there were some stories that revealed that he had, in fact, attempted to sell the story to a number of news agencies before going to the press conference. And that, I think, destroyed his credibility all together. KURTZ: And what about that, Sanjay Gupta? It was reported by the "New York Times" among others that Guillen approached CNN as well as Fox, ABC, NBC, CBS, HBO, with offers of exclusive rights to the story; that he would've made more than $100,000. And is this just what freelance journalists do, or did this have the appearance of, kind of, profiteering on the cloning story? GUPTA: I think definitely the second, profiteering. You know, just as Anne said, I think that him being at the news conference did offer some credibility to the whole news conference, but as soon as he found out he was hocking his wares later on a day or so later, it really -- his credibility went down to zero very quickly. KURTZ: Tim Rutten, has Guillen's credibility now been tarnished as the other guests seem to be suggesting? RUTTEN: Sure. Anytime you engage in checkbook journalism, it's a dirty business for everybody involved. Actually, my favorite part of this is he approached the entertainment division of Fox Broadcasting with a proposal for a show which they rejected, according to "The New York Times," because they believed it raised ethical problems, and given what's on that network, one has to shudder to imagine what that might have been. KURTZ: "How To Marry A Multimillionaire" is OK, but the cloning story isn't? RUTTEN: I guess how to marry 14 multimillionaires, all of them look alike. (LAUGHTER) KURTZ: Give us the larger picture here. When we look back on this a year from now, assuming that there's no further development, is this going to be a really embarrassing episode for the media, or just another one of our periodic frenzies? RUTTEN: Well, you know, we humiliate ourselves in so many ways so frequently. I think it will probably be one of several. But it's a great cautionary tale. You know, editing is supposed to occur in a deliberative atmosphere, not in an echo chamber. And this notion that once something is said anywhere and people begin to talk about in a casual way that that somehow makes it a legitimate story -- it's a preposterous notion. It's a damaging notion. KURTZ: And what about that, Anne Applebaum? We all get, sort of, stampeded these days, because, well, it was on the Internet, it was on this cable network, it was in this alternative newspaper, it's out there, we've got to report it. And why do we have to, sort of, you know, go along with the pack? APPLEBAUM: Well, there's a kind of anxiety. You know, journalists feel, "Oh, everybody else is writing about it, if I don't write about it, I'm going to miss the story." I think people do feel that. But, I mean, this is a kind of wake-up call; you know, stop; you know, don't just pick up the clips, tell the story again, you know, based on what you read on the newspaper. Go back and find out what it is. I mean, all you had do was tap into the Raelians' Web site, and you had a pretty good idea of who they were. KURTZ: And yet it took awhile for lots of good reporters to do that. And finally, Sanjay Gupta, does this make medical reporting, particularly reporting on this area of cloning, more difficult? Will be people now be more confused about what to believe when you get to the next story which might be a lot more substantiative, shall we say, than the Raelians? GUPTA: Yes, I think this is going to make it more difficult. I think we're going to have to work harder the next time a legitimate cloning story, a legitimate story about cloning in any form comes through, we're going to have to really, you know, almost make sure we go overboard, in terms of trying to establish its credibility if it is a real story. I think the Raelians have given a black eye not only to the media, but also to the cloning industry in general. And that's unfortunate. But again, Howard, back to the question you were asking earlier, I think that I'm not sure there was another way around this one. It has captured the public's imagination. Cloning will happen. We don't think this is probably going to be it... KURTZ: Right. GUPTA: ... but I think it was worth covering. KURTZ: But as always, it's the question of the tone and the volume that the media devote to these kinds of subjects. Sanjay Gupta in Atlanta, Tim Rutten in Los Angeles, Anne Applebaum here with me, thanks very much for joining us. <snip> Now, a programming note: CNN is revamping its weekend line-up with more live programming, and for now, RELIABLE SOURCES will be seen only on Sunday mornings at 11:30 Eastern, 8:30 Pacific. So please adjust your schedules, or your VCRs, and make sure to join us each Sunday for another critical look at the media. I'm Howard Kurtz. Thanks for watching.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 14 Re: Corso - Oplatka From: Laurel Oplatka <calabash2003@webtv.net> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 18:15:45 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 08:12:43 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Oplatka Hi Listers, Oh, re: Steve Kaeser's comment about my "dismissing" the skeptic's point of view - I don't totally dismiss what they have said and I agree with Ed that certain mistakes/misrepresentations made by Corso cannot be denied. But do these mean or prove that Corso is a total lie-ridden hoaxer/fraud? I think not! Enigmatic, yes! And as per Steve's statement about my being a pre-disposed ET believer, I will have to address that subject in another post..... Suffice it to say now that, since I've never seen a body or craft, never been abducted to my conscious knowledge (although having over 40 years of inexplicably vivid, complex and mind-boggling UFO/ET related dreams and "dream-like" experiences, and a possible scoop mark scar haven't exactly dampened my suspicions of ET existence), of course I can't objectively "prove" the existence of ET (no one on this List can). Based on my studies, readings, contacts/conversations with humans re: this incredilby vast "phenomena" and all resources I've been pursuing, I must say I find it "illogical" to deny the really great possibility of ET/non-human existence. Anyway, on this List, please classify me as the open-minded (to not a small degree) sort. Back to Corso - I agree again with Ed Gehrman that more bio information must be obtained from Birnes. And is it patently impossible for anyone to prod Corso, Jr. into disclosing more stuff? Too bad M. Sgt. Bill Brown (friend of Corso's who let Corso into the Vet. Bldg. at Fort Riley) cannot be investigated - I did a Google search on him but perhaps I did not go far enough due to time constraints today - maybe Ed knows his status - is Sgt. Brown dead? He was seemingly the only one around the old Veterinary bldg. at Fort Riley that night when Corso said he saw the alien body... because, as Stan Friedman pointed out some time ago, it seems not to be understandable why there weren't alot of guards/ extra security surrounding the Vet. Bldg., given it's alleged contents! Re: Sean Jones comment about most people here probably only being aware of three UFO crashes (two in the USA), I myself thought previously that there were three in USA, but then, thanks some very interesting material on Stan Friedman's website: 'Exhaustive List of Possible UFO Crashes/Retrievals', I see that there are 272 listed! I'm still going through the list! Comments about any of this? Best Regards, Laurel
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 14 Inquiring Mind's Don't Want To Know From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 19:52:40 -0800 Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 08:22:11 -0500 Subject: Inquiring Mind's Don't Want To Know Hi all, I will, hopefully, be back - after I can finally change servers. The following is one of the most astonishing portayals of the real problem with entrenched science. http://www.nationalreview.com/goldberg/goldberg011303.asp I don't agree with all of Jonah Goldberg's writing, but this one is right on. GT McCoy Wandering Listerion
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 14 Re: Corso - Kimball From: Paul Kimball <Kimballwood@aol.com> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 23:39:14 EST Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 08:32:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Kimball >From: Colin Bennett <sharkley@panzerben.fsworld.co.uk> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 23:43:30 -0000 >Subject: Re: Corso >Why do people write about Corso in such flat uninspired tones? Have you actually read his book? Talk about flat, uninspired tones. But I digress... >Most contributions sound like manic-depressive driving >instructors discussing their mortgage payments and ingrowing >toenails. Has no-one ever seen the The Day After Roswell as >Literature, symbol, art form? I will agree that it stands as a less than shining symbol to the gullibility of certain folks. As far as art form, until self- aggrandizement, hoodwinkery and hoaxicology become classified as bona fide art forms, I'll pass on rendering a judgement. >Has no one seen it indeed as one of the most exciting UFO books >ever written and one that puts more sober, dull and pedestrian >tomes to shame? Using this line of reasoning (if one call call it that), the X- Files must be the most exciting documentary ever filmed. Or maybe it was Star Wars? Either way, I might as well quit trying to top it now. >Has not anyone anything to say about the narrative, the colour, the >characters, the themes? As far as a qualitative assessment of the >book goes, it is discussed as if it were a dead cat wrapped in a rag. A dead cat wrapped in a bag would have more to say about UFOs than Corso's book. >Discussing the book and Corso himself in terms of begging >letters to the maiden aunts of the NSA or cautious requests for >dusty document boxes is the kind of dismal, humourless clerk- >like narrow vision that has given Ufology a bad name. It >suggests that the kind of factspeil commissars who are putting >the deviant Corso on the Maoist show-trial stand are exactly the >opposite to him in character: cautious, conservative, politic, >linear, and uninspired, people... If you're looking for adjectives to describe those who are the opposite of Corso, try this one on for size: honest. >Ufology must lift his head from this mundane track, come to a >better understanding of what Literature is and what it means as >vision, instead of revealing critical incompetence as regards >the proper critical assessment of Literature. Good Lord. With 'thinking' like this, is it any wonder the sun set on the British Empire? I assume that, should you ever have to have to undergo a lifesaving operation, you'll be less concerned with the surgeon's actual training, knowledge and expertise than with his views on Gray's Anatomy as 'literature'? >Corso's book is big stuff, and these mouse-nibbling cloakroom- >ticket number discussions don't get anywhere near to what it >means. Corso's book is a sad little tome by a sad little man that has done harm to the cause of those who would seek out the truth about the UFO phenomenon. You and others like you, Mr. Bennett, no matter how sincere, are just making matters worse. Best regards, Paul Kimball
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 14 Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer - Heath From: Gord Heath <gwheath@shaw.ca> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 21:15:53 -0800 Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 08:36:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer - Heath >From: Trevor Seguin <dragko@shaw.ca> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:50:34 -0800 >Subject: Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer <snip> >>>www.presidentialufo.com/pole_deer_hoax.htm >>The tree deer is anything but weird. As far as I'm concerned, >>and based on some common sense, the New York case has a >>plausible and, don't be too disappointed folks, human >>explanation to it though some are trying to make out to be much >>more than that... >I agree this is anything but strange. Cougars, other large cats >and even bears, although rare, will drag a carcass into trees. >The carcass must be small or the cougar must be large but it can >be done. I know cougars are rare to non-existent in the New York >area but there are probably some. In Manitoba there most >definatly are a few. <snip> I just wished to point out that the contemporary range of the cougar or mountain lion does not include Saskatchewan or Manitoba. Please refer to: http://members.tripod.com/endangeredtiger/mountainlionmap.JPG Prehaps we are talking about a new cryptozoological find here? The fabled eastern cougar makes a major statement that it is ready to control its territory? Or maybe just little bobcats or lynx dragging the carcasses of deer up these poles? Or maybe a pack of feral housecats making ready for the winter? But maybe something that we have not yet seen clear proof for... must clearly be the actions of "homosim grendellum", the fearless and carnivorous version of Sasquatch, straying south of its normal abodes in the deepest, coldest parts of the northern Canadian taiga. Okay, I jest. But perhaps the easy and obvious "wildlife predator" explanations are no more normal than other speculation?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 14 Validating The Ramey Memo [was: Spielberg's Take From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 09:37:16 -0800 Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 08:39:27 -0500 Subject: Validating The Ramey Memo [was: Spielberg's Take >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 23:32:04 +0000 >Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 19:42:36 -0500 >Subject: Re: Spielberg's Take On Taken - Hall >My own take on Roswell at this point is that clearly something >far more unusual than a Mogul balloon, and certainly far beyond >a standard weather balloon, crashed near Roswell. Certainly >disinformation could be a factor, and I personally do not doubt >that it has occurred, but to what degree is impossible to say. >So it can not simply be asserted that an alien spacecraft >crashed and all efforts to deny that are simply disinformation. >Some of what has occurred, as Kevin points out, apparently is >due to personal dishonesty. Since the waters are so muddied by >dishonest witnesses (no matter how motivated), the truth is very >elusive. All of this is further compounded by the various, >usually well-meaning, efforts to decipher the Ramey memo, which >come out with substantially different interpretations as each >intepreter claims to be the only one doing it the right way. >Whatever happened to objective peer review? David Rudiak, whose >Roswell web site is a positive asset, even went so far as to >suggest that peer review was equivalent to a Government >conspiracy. Huh? Let's get real here! Dick, I have the highest regard for your decades of work and sacrifice in this field. I've been meaning to get back on the issues you raised a month ago concerning "peer review" of the Ramey memo. First of all, the interpretations are not "substantially different" on key words and phrases. Literally everybody agrees that the words "weather balloons" are there. This is important because it establishes that the message is about Roswell in some way, despite early objections by naysayers like Philip Klass and even Kevin Randle. "How do you know the message is about Roswell and not something else?" Because the odds of Gen. Ramey simultaneously dealing with an unrelated message concerning "weather balloons" is about .00001% given the historical context. Another key word that most people agree on is "victims", in the phrase (which most people also agree on) "the victims of the wreck you forwarded to the ?????? at Fort Worth, Tex." That's the key to the entire message. If there were "victims", then this was no balloon wreck, and the testimony concerning body recovery at Roswell is now documented. Anybody who thinks the word "victims" isn't there should check out the following graphic and open their eyes: http://www.roswellproof.com/Victim_compare.html The other key word is the word "disc" (with quotes around it) in the sentence immediately following (also present for comparison in the the above link). Most people agree that word is there as well. So now we have a military telegram about Roswell ("weather balloons") mentioning "victims" and an object called "the 'disc'", and most people who have taken the time to actually study what is there agree on this, despite disagreements elsewhere. In other words, there is already peer group verification of critical parts of this message. >Whatever happened to objective peer review? David Rudiak, whose >Roswell web site is a positive asset, even went so far as to >suggest that peer review was equivalent to a Government >conspiracy. Huh? Let's get real here! I do not object to "peer review." I just want to you and others to be very, very explicit about what you have in mind. Biased or poorly thought out peer review is worse than no peer review. The fact that you call for "objective peer review" makes me wonder if you really understand what is involved in doing such a review. How do you keep things "objective" with such an emotionally charged topic? (Yes, even scientists have been known to have biases, or do I need to remind anyone of people like Menzel, Sagan, Krauss, and other know-nothing, "don't confuse me with data" scientist UFO debunkers?) Here are major issues in any sort of peer review: 1. Who chooses the peer reviewers? How do you keep them "objective" in their choices of reviewers? 2. What are the criteria in choosing the peer reviewers? What are the necessary qualifications of the peer reviewers and who decides this? Why, e.g., is a physical scientist better than an English major or a linguist, since this is primarily a linguistic task, not a physical measurement? How do you keep the peer reviewers objective? 3. How is this peer review going to be carried out? What is the protocol and methodology? Who decides this? How do you ensure the protocol is "objective" or properly designed? 4. How do you keep your peer reviewers motivated such that they persist for a reasonable time (meaning dozens of hours, not 15 minutes), other than paying them a lot of money? Who's going to pay them? It is all sounds very simple and high minded to call for a peer review of independent scientists, but the devil is in the details. I want to remind you already of one "attempt" by the Air Force in 1994 to read the Ramey memo in which they turned over a negative copy and blow-ups to a photoanalysis lab of "a national level organization." Allegedly they were unable to "visualize" any "details" in the message because of "insufficient quality." In other words, they were claiming with all their weasel words that nothing at all could be read here. It turns out this was just a flagrant lie, because there certainly are important words in the message that most if not all people agree on, such as "weather balloons", "victims", and "disc". Surely these must be the most qualified people on the planet to do such a study -- right? That's what organizations like the CIA or NSA do for a living. Yet by using the appeal to authority of a "national level" photoanalysis lab, the Air Force deceived everybody for a number of years that the message was completely unreadable. That's one big problem with "peer review." Who's doing the peer review and do individuals or the group have a hidden agenda? Another point concerning government disinformation, if there is still any doubt about an ongoing cover-up, consider attempts by Dennis Balthauser to get a copy of the photoanalysis report by that "national level organization" cited by Col Weaver in his executive summary. The Air Force not only refuses to identify which organization this is, but they are now claiming they can't find their own materials used in preparation of their Roswell report. That's right. They claim they can't find their own report, much less the photoanalysis report (or any Roswell materials from 50+ years ago). They have been giving Dennis the run-around for the past 3 years, bouncing him from archive to archive. See: http://www.truthseekeratroswell.com/foia_requests_and_responses.html Here's another problem with "peer review." Do the people doing the peer review or designing the protocol really understand the problem? Consider the peer review proposal of James Houran and Kevin Randle. They suggested using three separate groups and "triangulating" readings. Furthermore, to solve the objectivity problem, they suggested telling the groups nothing at all about what the message was about. Presumably, to keep this even more "objective", the peer reviewers should also be completely Roswell ignorant. That sounds superficially reasonable, but it is full of problems. First of all, we are back to who chooses the groups and the criteria for choosing them. But the more serious problem is the proposal to keep the groups completely in the dark to make the reading more "objective." In doing so, you've removed absolutely critical information needed to disambiguate the message. It's like filling in some fraction of a crossword puzzle with possible letters, but removing most of the clues. Without the clues, the words become ambiguous with possible multiple solutions. Therefore, the suggested Houran/Randle protocol virtually guarantees failure. It's what I call the context problem. You can't solve the puzzle without knowing the proper context and applying it. It's why I like to give the example of the possible matches for the "victims" word if one uses search letters "V I _ _ I _ S". There are only 8 possibilities. But still one must choose amongst the possibilities, and than can only be done by applying proper context. VIOLINS might be a viable choice if we knew the message was from a symphony conductor. VIRGINS might be viable if the message was from an anthropologist and concerned human sacrifice. But neither word seems very likely in the context of a military message at the height of the Roswell incident in the hand of the general trying to kill the story. No intelligence agency in their right mind would approach reading the message in this way, by keeping the analysts completely ignorant of context. I recently sent Kevin Randle a long e-mail in which I gave the analogy of a cell phone message from a known terrorist being intercepted, but the reception was poor and the message was full of static and faded in and out. A few words came through relatively clearly, but most of the message was faint and noisy. This is the auditory analog to the written Ramey message. Now what does the intelligence agency do to interpret the message? What they would really do is turn it over to a terrorism task force that was highly familiar with the terrorist networks. They would tell them _everything_ known about the message -- when & where it was intercepted, who the known terrorists on the phone was, what he was up to at the time, etc. If they want their analysts to disambiguate a noisy message, they need to provide them with the proper context. What they would _not_ do would be to turn it over to groups of know-nothing scientists and also tell them absolutely nothing so that they will be more "objective." This is the danger of a badly designed protocol done in the name of "objective peer review." It will only cause negative results and then be used to debunk the whole thing. When I suggested people going to my website and conducting their own peer review with their own eyes, Dick Hall jumped on me saying the whole thing now needed to be dumped into the lap of the scientists. I considered that an elitist and patronizing remark, and also indicated that he didn't appreciate the problems that I've outlined above. People weren't supposed to make their own judgments without some authority figures telling them what to think first. Scientists are not automatically more qualified to work a word puzzle if they have a PhD after their names than the hapless liberal arts major waiting tables or the secretary typing the bosses letter. This is a linguistic task. Scientific protocols can be devised to help, such as the one I used and wrote up on my website (which was also endorsed by Houran and Randle incidentally). But ultimately it comes down to whether the average person sees words there or not. Here's how my web poll results are turning out so far, and they've been pretty consistent, with little fluctuation. See: http://www.roswellproof.com/Critical_Phrases.html With more than 400 votes, 79% of the respondents agree that the words "the victims" probably (31%) or definitely (48%) are there, vs. only 6% who say they definitely are not there. That's better than a 10 to 1 margin. (15% are neutral or unsure.) With about 370 votes, 71% agree the phrase "in the 'disc'" is probably (30%) or definitely (41%) there, vs 10% who say it is probably (8%) or definitely (2%) not there. (19% are neutral.) That's a 7 to 1 margin. Incidentally, 84% agree that the Air Force lied in 1994 when they said nothing could be read in the message, agreeing that there certainly are some things that can be read there. Only 12% disagree, voting that little or nothing can be read. As I stated before, this is not a scientific poll since it is not a random sampling. It is a self-selected population, which, according to my 4th poll question, is strongly "pro-UFO" (88% are in this category.) However, this concept can be expanded into a scientific opinion poll of word and phrase readability. As I suggested to Kevin Randle (and also Vicki Ecker who asked me to write up something for UFO magazine), the whole message should be stripped down to what I call the critical phrases in the memo, namely "the victims of the wreck" and "in the 'disc' they will ship". This greatly simplifies the testing procedure and also goes to the heart of the debate, namely does this message destroy any balloon hypothesis and support a flying disk crash with bodies? If words like "the victims" and "in the disc" are there, then you bet! Bye, bye Mogul and hello disk crash with alien bodies. So here's one way to check the readability of these phrases with an opinion poll. Place these interpretations in competition with similar phrases, being careful to match word lenghs and make reasonable matches to the appearance of at least some of the letters. Then have the respondents choose what they think is closest to the actual phrases. These phrases will be printed in true era teletype font to aid the subjects in making their choice. (Use of this teletype font was another part of my experimental protocol in deciphering the Ramey message not used by anybody else.) Of course, subjects should only be shown very high quality enhanced images of the phrases, not the low contrast, grainy, non-optimum images used by Houran and Randle in their "faces in the clouds" study. (The fact that their subjects used low quality images and spent very little time on average looking at the message -- only 17 minutes -- are two major limitations of this study that few people are aware of.) As an example, for the second phrase there might be the following competing phrases: IN THE "DISC" THEY WILL SHIP IS THE "DISC" THAT THEY SEND IF THE "BOMB" WERE THEN SENT ON TWO PRINTS THAT WERE SHOT IS THE "WISH" WHAT THEY WANT IF TOM THINKS THEY WISH THIS AS NOT BROKEN SHIN BLOW HURT The last phrase is a deliberate nonsense control to test the the claim by skeptics that the Ramey memo is nothing but unreadable blobs. If that were the case, then all phrases, including the nonsense one, should be chosen with equal probability. All other phrases might be meaningful in different contexts. The first phrase is "crashed saucer positive" and "balloon negative", i.e., preferential choice here supports the notion of something of importance inside an object called a 'disc' was being shipped. The second phrase is "saucer neutral." Preferential choice of the second would support "disc" being there, but wouldn't necessarily support a crashed flying saucer. Skeptics, e.g., could argue that Ramey was using "disc" to refer to a radar target (which is exactly what Ramey and the military tried to confuse the flying saucers with back in 1947, saying all the reports were the result of misidentified radar targerts.) Then we get to various confusion phrases that have nothing to do with flying saucers or even radar targets. The test would be given context free at first. (I would suggest 2 parts here: one with the same low quality images of the Houran/Randle test to see how much that affected readability, and then with higher resolution, enhanced images.) Then a misleading context would be provided, and people would choose again. E.g., if the misleading context were about "atomic testing" (as used in the Houran and Randle study) and there were really a serious "priming" effect, then perhaps either the 3rd or 4th phrase would be chosen preferentially. Finally people would be told this was about the Roswell incident and the alleged crashed flying disk and alien body recovery from inside the disk object. Now if the phrase "in the 'disc'" is really as readable as I think it is, then it should be chosen preferentially in all three conditions over the others, including the misleading context. Perhaps it would be chosen more in the final condition with the proper Roswell context, but that would only indicate that people were using correct information to remove possible ambiguities. What some people call "bias" or "priming", others might call intelligent use of available information, such as clues in a crossword puzzle. If the letters and words are nothing but meaningless blobs, then there won't be any preference for any phrase in any of the conditions. If "priming" were the determining factor, then there would be no preference in the first condition, preference for one of the possible bomb phrases in the misleading context, and preference for the disc phrases only in the last correct Roswell context condition. However, if the first phrase were chosen preferentially in all 3 conditions at a statistically significant level, then that would pretty much validate its presence as far as I'm concerned. The same set of tests would be simultaneously administered for the "the victims" phrase, again with competing phrases. This testing protocol gets around the problem of finding neutral peer reviewers, trying to determine what their qualifications should be, how to keep them objective without depriving them of needed information, how they should be compensated, etc. It reduces to an easy to administer multiple choice test that can be given by nearly anybody with a little training. The human eye and brain is still the best visual pattern recognizer around. Presenting these phrases to a cross-section of literate, native English speakers is about a good a test for readability as can be devised. Scientific background is important in proper design of the test (the example above is a suggested starting point) and analysis afterwards, but it is not necessary to use scientists to do the test readings. They are no better at this sort of task than anybody else, which is one reason I object so strongly to Dick Hall's elitist remark about how only scientist were qualified to read and "validate" the Ramey memo. I am looking into other ways in which to test the memo, such as letting a computer rate probabilities of letters in expected letter positions against a comparison teletype font, but enough for now. David Rudiak
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 14 Re: Corso - Gates From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 00:59:23 EST Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 08:43:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Gates >From: Laurel Oplatka <calabash2003@webtv.net> >Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 04:31:52 -0800 (PST) >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Subject: Re: Corso >To Ed and List: >Yes (gulp!), it was I who opened this recent Corso thread and >thank you very much, Ed, for your support and niceness. >As a new List member at that time, I do admit that I was >somewhat shocked and puzzled by some of the first responses I >read on here - i.e. Corso should not be part of any serious >discussion. Laurel, As I pointed out earlier, Corso generally pops up about twice a year. We usually have a open running discussion on Alien Autopsey, MJ-12, Security classifications and documents, not to mention Corso and a few others. Corso should be part of serious discussions, with the disclaimer that the bottom line is other then "Phil said" we have no independently verifiable evidence any technology similar to what Corso described (whether from ET or not) was "seeded" to private industry between 1960-62. >As far as verification for Corso's claims, I just had a >worrisome thought - what if ET, et al, won't allow Corso, Jr. to >divulge any info/documentation? I suspect that has nothing to do with it. Birnes apparently has all the videotape and a copy of the manuscript, not to mention last April or so in UFO mag there was an article about Corso and alien propulsion or something like that. Apparently Phil Junior also has a copy of the manuscript, but at this point has chosen to let things ride. As I pointed out earlier, essentially all we have is "Phil said" and not much more. Unless something changes, this topic will be discussed on the List 10 years from now and still no further information. Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 14 Postcard Follow-up To FOIA Appeal - 01-14-03 From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 05:44:32 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 08:53:45 -0500 Subject: Postcard Follow-up To FOIA Appeal - 01-14-03 To: president@whitehouse.gov TO: Secretary of the Air Force ATTN: General Counsel The Pentagon Washington, DC 20330 FROM: Larry W. Bryant DATE: January 14, 2003 Having received no reply from you to my FOIA appeal letter of Nov. 5, 2002 (in which I appeal the D. C. Air National Guard's denial of access to all records pertaining to the jet- interceptor pursuit of a mysterious craft near Waldorf, Md., on July 26, 2002), I now construe that lack of reply as a denial of my appeal, inasmuch as you have failed to comply with the applicable FOIA response-time limit. By this postcard, I therefore serve notice that I'm instructing my attorney, Mark S. Zaid, Esq., of Washington, D.C., to file suit against your agency in the U. S. District Court for the District of Columbia so as to enjoin you from improperly withholding the requested records. Larry W. Bryant Director, Washington, D.C., Office of Citizens Against UFO Secrecy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 14 Effective Lobbying And Public Education From: Ed Case <case_ed@hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:03:53 +0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 08:59:22 -0500 Subject: Effective Lobbying And Public Education I have some questions and comments for the List: 1) What are the best ways to educate the public and lobby effectively for the disclosure and dissemination of UFO related information? How can local activists best present UFO information to the public? 2) What are the best reasons for the public to support disclosure? What would the primary benefits be if there was significant disclosure by national and international governments? ? Are there any potential hazards related to disclosure? I also would like to comment on Dr. Steven Greer's efforts to educate the public and lobby government officials for disclosure. Despite the possible validity of serious criticisms of Greer written by journalists and ufologists - I think he has done some very good work. In addition to organizing the National Press Conference in May 2001, Greer has compiled a great deal of witness testimony on video - and even though they may contain some witnesses who should have been weeded out, they still contain excellent testimony from many very credible witnesses. Greer's recordings of Gordon Cooper, John Callahan (FAA), Brigadier General Lovekin and many of the other people Greer has interviewed - offer some the best evidence of a UFO "cover up" that I have ever seen. From what I have read and observed - Disclosure Project events have helped educate and motivate many people. The Disclosure Project presentation I attended in Eugene, OR (April 24, 2002) was very well done and well attended. Peter Sorenson, a respected Lane County Commissioner and former state legislator helped organize the event and did a very effective introduction. The event was held at the Eugene Hilton conference center and was attended by a standiing room only audience of 500 or more very interested observers. Instead of just complaining the Greer has been *gasp* a fallible person who has been mistaken on some details and guilty of bad judgement/behavior at times, I think Listers should make an effort to verify and publicize the best witnesses. If Disclosure Project witnesses like Gordon Cooper, John Callahan, General Lovekin are telling the truth - we should be doing all we can to support them, rather than wasting too much time arguing over trivial details, infighting and sectarianism. It is important to identify the witnesses (like Corso, Stone, etc) who may be lying about their personal involvement - but I don't think that should be the primary focus of this group. Debunkers focus on the lies, researchers should focus on the truth. Good research (and personal/organizational integrity are very important - but shouldn't public education and effective lobbying for disclosure be our main focus?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 14 An Abduction Checklist From: Michael Harman <rocketman5047@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 08:01:34 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 23:43:22 -0500 Subject: An Abduction Checklist Abduction Checklist If these reports can be believed - and there is no reason to doubt the honesty of the reporters - the abduction phenomenon includes the following details. * Aliens can alter our perception of our surroundings. * Aliens can control what we think we see. They can appear to us in any number of guises, and shapes. * Aliens can take us - our consciousness - out of our physical bodies, disable our control of our bodies, install one of their own entities, and use our bodies as vehicles for their own activities before returning our consciousness to our bodies. * Aliens can be present with us in an invisible state and can make themselves only partially visible. * Abductees receive marks on their bodies other than the well- known scoops and straight-line scars. These other marks include single punctures, multiple punctures, large bruises, three - and four-fingered claw marks, and triangles of every possible sort. * Females abductees often suffer serious gynecological problems after their alien encounters, and sometimes these problems lead to cysts, tumors, cancer of the breasts and uterus, and to hysterectomies. * Aliens take body fluids from our necks, spines, blood veins, joints such as knees and wrists, and other places. They also inject unknown fluids into various parts of our bodies. * A surprising number of abductees suffer from serious illnesses they didn't have before their encounters. These have led to surgery, debilitation, and even death from causes the doctors can't identify. * Some abductees experience a degeneration of their mental, social, and spiritual well-being. Excessive behavior frequently erupts, such as drug abuse, alcoholism, overeating, and promiscuity. Strange obsessions develop and cause the disruption of normal life and the destruction of personal relationships. * Aliens show a great interest in adult sexuality, child sexuality, and in inflicting physical pain on abductees. * Abductees recall being instructed and trained by aliens. This training may be in the form of verbal or telepathic lessons, slide shows, or actual hands-on instruction in the operation of alien technology. * Abductees report being taken to facilities in which they encounter not only aliens but also normal-looking humans, sometimes in military uniforms, working with the alien captors. * Abductees often encounter more than one sort of alien during an experience, not just the grays. Every possible combination of gray, reptoid, insectoid, blond, and widow's peak have been seen during single abductions, aboard the same craft or in the same facility. * Abductees - "virgin" cases - report being taken to underground facilities where they see grotesque hybrid creatures, nurseries of hybrid humanoid fetuses, and vats of colored liquid filled with parts of human bodies. * Abductees report seeing other humans in these facilities being drained of blood, being mutilated, flayed, and dismembered, and being stacked, lifeless, like cords of wood. Some abductees have been threatened that they, too, will end up in this condition if they don't co-operate with their alien captors. * Aliens come into homes and temporarily remove young children, leaving their distraught parents paralyzed and helpless. In cases where a parent has been able to protest, the aliens insist that "The children belong to us." * Aliens have forced their human abductees to have sexual intercourse with aliens and even with other abductees while groups of aliens observe these performances. In such encounters, the aliens have sometimes disguised themselves in order to gain the cooperation of the abductee, appearing in such forms as Jesus, the Pope, certain celebrities, and even the dead spouses of the abductees. * Children abductees sometimes show a new and obsessive interest in their own genitalia after alien encounters, saying that their abductors who come at night have been touching these parts of their bodies. * Aliens perform extremely painful experiments or procedures on abductees, saying that these acts are necessary but giving no explanation why. Abductees' eyes are painfully removed from the sockets, allowing the aliens to scrape the area or implant devices into the area before the eyeballs are replaced, for instance. Some abductees are subjected to painful constrictions, often around the head, chest and extremities. Painful genitalia and anal probes are performed, on children as well as adults. * Aliens make predictions of an imminent period of global chaos and destruction. They say that a certain number of humans - and the number varies dramatically from case to case - will be "rescued" from the planet in order to continue the species, either on another planet or back on earth after the destruction is over. Many abductees report that they don't believe their alien captors and foresee instead a much more sinister use of the "rescued" humans. Source: Karla Turner Ph.D., ParaNet Abduction Echo April 1993 UFO-PI NEWS: 1. The web site was created to study and obtain as much information as possible about alien advanced technology. I have done that and have learned much about the inner workings of these craft. (See UFO Technology below). If you have any information relating to UFO technology, please forward it on to me at rocketman5047@yahoo.com. In 2003 I have added an additional theme which is the study of why so many people are being abducted, and for what purpose? Are they studying our psycology? 2. I am currently looking for local Arlington Texas UFO enthusiasts who may wish to meet and talk UFOs, or go skywatching. 3. Also looking for guitarists or keyboardists to jam and possibly form a very casual dance band to play only once in a while. If Interested e-Mail Me At: rocketman5047@yahoo.com. 4. Is the world going to end in 2006? Read "The Bible Code II The Countdown" In it you'll find several very clear Bible Codes for THE END OF THE WORLD... Can we change this outcome? Are these 3,000 year old codes imbedded in the Hebrew text accurate, or they simply chance? 5. More Bible Codes: "ATOMIC HOLOCAUST IN 2006", "WORLD WAR 2006"," END OF DAYS TERRORISM PLAGUE", NEW YORK IN 2004 FROM THE FIRE OF A MISSILE"," ETOMIC ATACK CHEMICAL ATTACK", "THE NEXT TERRORIST ATOMIC", "WAR OF BUSH"," G.W. BUSH PRESIDENT IN THE END OF DAYS"..Quotes are from the book Get it today.... "The Bible Code II The Countdown" By Drosnin 6. I am looking for someone in the DFW area who owns a private single engine aircraft, willing to take on a passenger as a UFO observer. If you are flying for the purpose of gaining flying time and don't mind a quiet passenger, then email me at rocketman5047@yahoo.com (I will gladly sign and or create a legal binding document stating that you cannot be held liable for accidental injury or death of myself due to an accident occuring in and around the aircraft.) 7. If you have any old UFO, science or astronomy related books, you would like to get rid of, instead of giving them away or throwing them out, send them to the UFO-PI UFO and Science Library at 1909 Lomita Lane, Arlington, Texas, 76010. I will place them here for reference. Visit UFO-PI: http://ufopi.freehomepage.com/indexmain.html ===== - - - - / \ - - - - - - - | | - - - - - - - | | - - - - - - - / \ - - - Mike Harman 817-649-0537
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 14 Re: Corso - Speiser From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 09:11:49 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 23:46:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Speiser Dear Colin: I predict that a hundred years from now, every literate man's bookshelf will sag under the weight of volumes from Colin Bennett, replete with florid prose, postmodern Truths about Universe, Self, & Consciousness, and knowing references to Ancient Foreign Guys, from the maestro of schlockspiel himself. They will be considered classics of literature and their praises sung from the halls of Oxford to the Plains of San Agustin. They will be de rigeur for beginning students of Postmodern Deconstruction. However, at that same centennial, the factual, objective, final truth regarding the nature of the UFO engima will be contained in The UFO Evidence, Vol. 5, Copyright 2097 by Dick Hall. Jim Speiser A cult is a religion with no political power. -- Tom Wolfe
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 14 Re: Corso - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 17:12:40 +0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 23:52:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Hall >From: Colin Bennett <sharkley@panzerben.fsworld.co.uk> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 23:43:30 -0000 >Subject: Re: Corso >Why do people write about Corso in such flat uninspired tones? >Most contributions sound like manic-depressive driving >instructors discussing their mortgage payments and ingrowing >toenails. Has no-one ever seen the The Day After Roswell as >Literature, symbol, art form? Has no one seen it indeed as one >of the most exciting UFO books ever written and one that puts >more sober, dull and pedestrian tomes to shame? Has not anyone >anything to say about the narrative, the colour, the characters, >the themes? As far as a qualitative assessment of the book goes, >it is discussed as if it were a dead cat wrapped in a rag. <snip> Colin, Well, I suppose if one does not care about facts and truth one can view what you call "Literature" - any of it including garbage like Corso's book - as entertaining and amusing, while you scoff at people who disagree with this rather strange outlook on life that ignores factual matters. Can you send me one of those magic "post-modern" wands that I can wave to make serious questions go away? Next time my dentist drills, shall I refuse to pay the bill on the grounds that it was merely acting and has no real-world reality? Somehow I didn't find 9/11 all that amusing and consider it to be merely someone's play acting, nor do I find your wilful circumvention of truth-seeking amusing. However, I do have a sense of humor about human foibles, yours included. Or are you just acting a part for your own amusement? - Dick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 14 Re: Corso - Kaeser From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 12:27:17 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 23:55:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Kaeser >From: Laurel Oplatka <calabash2003@webtv.net> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 18:15:45 -0800 (PST) >Subject: Re: Corso >Hi Listers, >Oh, re: Steve Kaeser's comment about my "dismissing" the skeptic's >point of view - I don't totally dismiss what they have said and >I agree with Ed that certain mistakes/misrepresentations made by >Corso cannot be denied. But do these mean or prove that Corso is >a total lie-ridden hoaxer/fraud? I think not! Enigmatic, yes! >And as per Steve's statement about my being a pre-disposed ET >believer, I will have to address that subject in another >post..... Suffice it to say now that, since I've never seen a >body or craft, never been abducted to my conscious knowledge >(although having over 40 years of inexplicably vivid, complex >and mind-boggling UFO/ET related dreams and "dream-like" >experiences, and a possible scoop mark scar haven't exactly >dampened my suspicions of ET existence), of course I can't >objectively "prove" the existence of ET (no one on this List >can). Laurel- I don't think we're really talking about the "skeptic's point of view" here, but a question of how we view the data. Corso's statements may have great import, but so far there is no evidence to back up his claims and certain aspects of his story have been shown to be, at best, misleading. I have met and spoken with the late Lt. Colonel, and he was a very nice person who appeared to truly believe in the text he had been the co- author of. There was a tremendous amount of tension between he and Birnes toward the end and I certainly wouldn't simply accept Birne's description of the facts in this case. Prior to his death, I understand that Corso was considering legal action against Birnes and the publisher, so there are a number of issues involved in this (most of which will never be clearly defined and are to a great extent irrelevent at this point). There are a few other researchers that have not weighed in on this discussion who had direct contact with Corso and know far more about the difficulties that developed. I am a volunteer with the Fund for UFO Research and a member of its Executive Committee, so I'm certainly not a "Skeptic" in the vein of CISCOP. I find a very interesting mystery here that needs to be investigated in a scientific manner. As Ed is aware, I was involved in some of the early research into the Santilli "film", although I really view that as an unresolvable puzzle given the evidence we have at this point. I find Corso's story to be interesting, but without additional evidence (a "spoking gun" so to speak), we are at an impasse and further review of the facts at hand won't prove anything. I would encourage everyone to read Corso's book as well, and then go back and examine technological advances over the past 50 years and see if there is support for his claims. Corso was certainly not the first person to speak of this type of seeding of technology, but so far there has been no real evidence of a great techological advance that couldn't be explained through the normal research process. IMO, we're wasting far too much time beating this dead horse. Steve [And expensive storge space at the Archive --ebk]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 15 Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 13:33:51 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 01:09:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer - Ledger >From: Gord Heath <gwheath@shaw.ca> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 21:15:53 -0800 >Subject: Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer >>From: Trevor Seguin <dragko@shaw.ca> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:50:34 -0800 >>Subject: Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer ><snip> >>>>www.presidentialufo.com/pole_deer_hoax.htm >>>The tree deer is anything but weird. As far as I'm concerned, >>>and based on some common sense, the New York case has a >>>plausible and, don't be too disappointed folks, human >>>explanation to it though some are trying to make out to be much >>>more than that... >>I agree this is anything but strange. Cougars, other large cats >>and even bears, although rare, will drag a carcass into trees. >>The carcass must be small or the cougar must be large but it can >>be done. I know cougars are rare to non-existent in the New York >>area but there are probably some. In Manitoba there most >>definatly are a few. ><snip> >I just wished to point out that the contemporary range of the >cougar or mountain lion does not include Saskatchewan or >Manitoba. Please refer to: >http://members.tripod.com/endangeredtiger/mountainlionmap.JPG If memory serves, there were claw marks partway up the tree in the New York case, but not high enough to account for an animal dragging the deer up there. They were also attributed to black bear. It would be interesting to see if branches were broken off above that point and hanging down. The one in Manitoba was missing the back feet and part of the legs. Wire cut through the legs and let go perhaps? Don't rule out poachers using some of the smaller helicopters [Robinson 22- Safari homebuilts] or an old Bell -47 to get the "jacked" deer out. There is big money in deer jacking. Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 15 Secrecy News -- 01/14/03 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 13:16:08 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 01:12:37 -0500 Subject: Secrecy News -- 01/14/03 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2003, Issue No. 5 January 14, 2003 ** REPUBLICAN SENATORS FURIOUS AT BUSH SECRECY ** DEMOCRATIC SENATORS SEEK TIA INFO ** ELLSBERG ON LEAKS ** CIA ON LEAKS (1977) REPUBLICAN SENATORS FURIOUS AT BUSH SECRECY Leading Republican Senators are complaining that Bush Administration secrecy policies are leaving them "out of the loop" on crucial defense and national security matters. "I will not tolerate a continuation of what's been going on the last two years," said Sen. John Warner, chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, as quoted by columnist Robert Novak. See "GOP senators on the warpath" by Robert Novak, Chicago Sun- Times, January 13: http://www.suntimes.com/output/novak/cst-edt-novak13.html See also "GOP veterans rap secrecy on defense issues" by James G. Lakely, Washington Times, January 14: http://www.washtimes.com/national/20030114-662134.htm White House spokesman Ari Fleischer denied that there was a problem. "The administration has been very cooperative in providing as much information as possible to people up on Capitol Hill, and will continue to do so," he said. DEMOCRATIC SENATORS SEEK TIA INFO Officials from the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency decline to comment, but questions continue to arise about the Agency's Total Information Awareness (TIA) program, an effort to demonstrate the utility of "data mining" as a tool for fighting terrorism. "Reliance on data mining by law enforcement agencies may produce an increase in false leads and law enforcement mistakes. While the former is a waste of resources, the latter may result in mistaken arrests or surveillance," wrote Senators Patrick Leahy, Russell Feingold and Maria Cantwell. They sent a long letter on January 10 to Attorney General Ashcroft, posing dozens of questions about TIA and related data mining programs. See the text of the letter here: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2003/01/leahy011003.html ELLSBERG ON LEAKS When official secrecy becomes hopelessly indiscriminate or is deliberately abused to impede the deliberative process, then unauthorized disclosures of secret information can serve to restore balance and to provide the missing check on government authority. That at least is the contention of Daniel Ellsberg, who famously leaked the Pentagon Papers to the press and who authored the recent memoir "Secrets." In all of the recent discussion of leaks, notes Ellsberg, "I notice that one point of view not represented is that of the 'leaker,' the official who acts in the belief that an unauthorized disclosure is necessary, important, valuable, and that continued silence and deception is costly in terms of American lives and national security." "It is not only leaks which can have costs and dangers in terms of national security and national interest-- official concealment and lies can also be dangerous and costly (and often are, for prolonged periods: viz. the Vietnam War, in which 58,000 Americans were lied to death, and there could have been more)," he wrote. "Indeed, that's the situation we're in at the moment, which is why it appears that an unprecedented number of officials in the DOD, CIA and State are making unauthorized disclosures, very creditably." "My memoir--by an acknowledged source, and one who apologizes only for my failure earlier to make the unauthorized disclosures I could and should have made--should illuminate for those without much high-level experience as a government insider just why the fight against an [Official Secrets Act] is so urgent and important." "I would be happy to get responses from those who would disagree on any level. It would be very good to get a discussion going, the hotter the better, on the various issues raised by my account; as well as evoking thoughts on how to change norms, laws and behavior in this area," he wrote. Further information about Daniel Ellberg's book "Secrets," including a sample chapter, reviews and contact information, may be found here: http://www.ellsberg.net/ CIA ON LEAKS (1977) "It seems to us that the universe of classified information is quite simply too large, and encompasses such a great variety of material... as to make impractical the idea of extending criminal sanctions to the unauthorized disclosure of all such information," wrote Anthony A. Lapham, CIA General Counsel, in a 1977 memorandum critiquing draft legislation to outlaw leaks of classified information. The Lapham memorandum raised several of the same concerns about a broad anti-leak statute that would resurface in the most recent dispute over such legislation. No comprehensive anti- leak law has been adopted. Yet. Anthony A. Lapham's 18 March 1977 memorandum, "CIA Comments on Draft Unauthorized Disclosure Legislation and Related Matters," was declassified and transferred to the National Archives in 2002. A copy is available here (thanks to MJR): http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/lapham.html _______________________________________________ Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org with "subscribe" in the body of the message. OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html _______________________ Steven Aftergood Project on Government Secrecy Federation of American Scientists web: www.fas.org/sgp/index.html email: saftergood@fas.org voice: (202) 454-4691
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 15 Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 21:59:07 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 01:18:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Hall >From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 09:37:16 -0800 >Subject: Validating The Ramey Memo [was: Spielberg's Take on Taken] >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 23:32:04 +0000 >>Subject: Re: Spielberg's Take On Taken >>My own take on Roswell at this point is that clearly something >>far more unusual than a Mogul balloon, and certainly far beyond >>a standard weather balloon, crashed near Roswell. Certainly >>disinformation could be a factor, and I personally do not doubt >>that it has occurred, but to what degree is impossible to say. >>So it can not simply be asserted that an alien spacecraft >>crashed and all efforts to deny that are simply disinformation. >>Some of what has occurred, as Kevin points out, apparently is >>due to personal dishonesty. Since the waters are so muddied by >>dishonest witnesses (no matter how motivated), the truth is very >>elusive. All of this is further compounded by the various, >>usually well-meaning, efforts to decipher the Ramey memo, which >>come out with substantially different interpretations as each >>intepreter claims to be the only one doing it the right way. >>Whatever happened to objective peer review? David Rudiak, whose >>Roswell web site is a positive asset, even went so far as to >>suggest that peer review was equivalent to a Government >>conspiracy. Huh? Let's get real here! >Dick, >I have the highest regard for your decades of work and sacrifice >in this field. I've been meaning to get back on the issues you >raised a month ago concerning "peer review" of the Ramey memo. >First of all, the interpretations are not "substantially >different" on key words and phrases. Literally everybody agrees >that the words "weather balloons" are there. This is important >because it establishes that the message is about Roswell in some >way, despite early objections by naysayers like Philip Klass and >even Kevin Randle. "How do you know the message is about Roswell >and not something else?" Because the odds of Gen. Ramey >simultaneously dealing with an unrelated message concerning >"weather balloons" is about .00001% given the historical >context. David, With the exception of some name-calling and distortions of what I said (which I will address below), it is a pleasure to debate the issues with you on this important topic. I have read several articles in the literature about varying interpretations of the memo, and the differences do seem substantial to me. The few key words you cite are interesting, but not conclusive. I am not aware that there is much agreement about the alleged word "wreck". >Another key word that most people agree on is "victims", in the >phrase (which most people also agree on) "the victims of the >wreck you forwarded to the ?????? at Fort Worth, Tex." That's >the key to the entire message. If there were "victims", then >this was no balloon wreck, and the testimony concerning body >recovery at Roswell is now documented. >Anybody who thinks the word "victims" isn't there should check >out the following graphic and open their eyes: >http://www.roswellproof.com/Victim_compare.html >The other key word is the word "disc" (with quotes around it) in >the sentence immediately following (also present for comparison >in the the above link). Most people agree that word is there as >well. So now we have a military telegram about Roswell ("weather >balloons") mentioning "victims" and an object called "the >'disc'", and most people who have taken the time to actually >study what is there agree on this, despite disagreements >elsewhere. In other words, there is already peer group >verification of critical parts of this message. I wish I had the time to study all this in more detail, but I don't and I make no claim to being a Roswell investigator, much less a Ramey memo investigator. I follow the investigations with interest. >>Whatever happened to objective peer review? David Rudiak, whose >>Roswell web site is a positive asset, even went so far as to >>suggest that peer review was equivalent to a Government >>conspiracy. Huh? Let's get real here! >I do not object to "peer review." I just want to you and others >to be very, very explicit about what you have in mind. Biased or >poorly thought out peer review is worse than no peer review. The >fact that you call for "objective peer review" makes me wonder >if you really understand what is involved in doing such a >review. How do you keep things "objective" with such an >emotionally charged topic? (Yes, even scientists have been known >to have biases, or do I need to remind anyone of people like >Menzel, Sagan, Krauss, and other know-nothing, "don't confuse me >with data" scientist UFO debunkers?) My background and training is in scientific philosophy, logic, etc. I think I know what peer review is, but I am beginning to wonder whether you do. Emotionally charged topics especially need it. Nowhere have I ever suggested that obviously biased scientists or skeptics should be the sole conductors of peer review. They certainly should be part of it, and their facts and reasoning also held up to review. You keep it objective by not making emotionally charged comments like you keep making about your work and that of others, and by encouraging and promoting full, free, and open exchange of data and discussion thereof by any and all who are qualified to have an opinion. >Here are major issues in any sort of peer review: >1. Who chooses the peer reviewers? How do you keep them >"objective" in their choices of reviewers? Phil Klass and Bob Young. (Just kidding!) No one chooses them; they choose themselves. Since "Ufology" is not a science to begin with, there are no standard setters other then experienced researchers who have something to say on the subject. >2. What are the criteria in choosing the peer reviewers? What >are the necessary qualifications of the peer reviewers and who >decides this? Why, e.g., is a physical scientist better than an >English major or a linguist, since this is primarily a >linguistic task, not a physical measurement? How do you keep the >peer reviewers objective? Your bias against scientists is showing. I kinda like them myself, especially when they actually behave scientifically. THen their qualifications are very helpful. >3. How is this peer review going to be carried out? What is the >protocol and methodology? Who decides this? How do you ensure >the protocol is "objective" or properly designed? No brainer. Everyone with appropriate knowedge and/or skills who wants to pitches in and analyzes all the data, or at least that approproate to his/her training or experience. >4. How do you keep your peer reviewers motivated such that they >persist for a reasonable time (meaning dozens of hours, not 15 >minutes), other than paying them a lot of money? Who's going to >pay them? Very few of us get paid; most of us are in debt for their efforts. Sincere interest in arriving at the truth is a good motivator, and I assume you are so motivated. >It is all sounds very simple and high minded to call for a peer >review of independent scientists, but the devil is in the >details. I want to remind you already of one "attempt" by the >Air Force in 1994 to read the Ramey memo in which they turned >over a negative copy and blow-ups to a photoanalysis lab of "a >national level organization." Allegedly they were unable to >"visualize" any "details" in the message because of >"insufficient quality." In other words, they were claiming with >all their weasel words that nothing at all could be read here. No one in his/her right mind would suggest that the views of a major partisan with an axe to grind should have sole review rights. >It turns out this was just a flagrant lie, because there >certainly are important words in the message that most if not >all people agree on, such as "weather balloons", "victims", and >"disc". >Surely these must be the most qualified people on the planet to >do such a study -- right? That's what organizations like the CIA >or NSA do for a living. Yet by using the appeal to authority of >a "national level" photoanalysis lab, the Air Force deceived >everybody for a number of years that the message was completely >unreadable. >That's one big problem with "peer review." Who's doing the peer >review and do individuals or the group have a hidden agenda? <snip> >Here's another problem with "peer review." Do the people doing >the peer review or designing the protocol really understand the >problem? Consider the peer review proposal of James Houran and >Kevin Randle. They suggested using three separate groups and >"triangulating" readings. Furthermore, to solve the objectivity >problem, they suggested telling the groups nothing at all about >what the message was about. Presumably, to keep this even more >"objective", the peer reviewers should also be completely >Roswell ignorant. >That sounds superficially reasonable, but it is full of >problems. First of all, we are back to who chooses the groups >and the criteria for choosing them. But the more serious problem >is the proposal to keep the groups completely in the dark to >make the reading more "objective." In doing so, you've removed >absolutely critical information needed to disambiguate the >message. It's like filling in some fraction of a crossword >puzzle with possible letters, but removing most of the clues. >Without the clues, the words become ambiguous with possible >multiple solutions. Therefore, the suggested Houran/Randle >protocol virtually guarantees failure. I think Roswell-ignorant reviewers with no stake in the outcome certainly should be involved in the peer review and would be an important part of it, but not the sole participants. Your points about context and language are well made. >It's what I call the context problem. You can't solve the puzzle >without knowing the proper context and applying it. It's why I >like to give the example of the possible matches for the >"victims" word if one uses search letters "V I _ _ I _ S". There >are only 8 possibilities. But still one must choose amongst the >possibilities, and than can only be done by applying proper >context. VIOLINS might be a viable choice if we knew the message >was from a symphony conductor. VIRGINS might be viable if the >message was from an anthropologist and concerned human >sacrifice. But neither word seems very likely in the context of >a military message at the height of the Roswell incident in the >hand of the general trying to kill the story. >No intelligence agency in their right mind would approach >reading the message in this way, by keeping the analysts >completely ignorant of context. I recently sent Kevin Randle a >long e-mail in which I gave the analogy of a cell phone message >from a known terrorist being intercepted, but the reception was >poor and the message was full of static and faded in and out. A >few words came through relatively clearly, but most of the >message was faint and noisy. This is the auditory analog to the >written Ramey message. >Now what does the intelligence agency do to interpret the >message? What they would really do is turn it over to a >terrorism task force that was highly familiar with the terrorist >networks. They would tell them _everything_ known about the >message -- when & where it was intercepted, who the known >terrorists on the phone was, what he was up to at the time, etc. >If they want their analysts to disambiguate a noisy message, >they need to provide them with the proper context. >What they would _not_ do would be to turn it over to groups of >know-nothing scientists and also tell them absolutely nothing so >that they will be more "objective." This is the danger of a >badly designed protocol done in the name of "objective peer >review." It will only cause negative results and then be used to >debunk the whole thing. Your anti-scientist bias is showing again. >When I suggested people going to my website and conducting their >own peer review with their own eyes, Dick Hall jumped on me >saying the whole thing now needed to be dumped into the lap of >the scientists. I considered that an elitist and patronizing >remark, and also indicated that he didn't appreciate the >problems that I've outlined above. People weren't supposed to >make their own judgments without some authority figures telling >them what to think first. Now your imagination is running wild. I never said said any such thing, or even close to it. If you actually read and comprehend my remarks, I cannot understand how you would consider them "elitist and patronizing." I am certainly no fan of authority figures and authoritative pronouncements as a substitute for real science, as you should know if you have read my writings. >Scientists are not automatically more qualified to work a word >puzzle if they have a PhD after their names than the hapless >liberal arts major waiting tables or the secretary typing the >bosses letter. This is a linguistic task. Scientific protocols >can be devised to help, such as the one I used and wrote up on >my website (which was also endorsed by Houran and Randle >incidentally). But ultimately it comes down to whether the >average person sees words there or not. I never said they were (I have a B.A. degree), but your anti- scientist and anti-PhD biases are showing. I kinda like some PhDs like Bruce Maccabee, Bob Hall, Mike Swords, Mark Rhodeghier, to name a few. <snip> >Scientific background is >important in proper design of the test (the example above is a >suggested starting point) and analysis afterwards, but it is not >necessary to use scientists to do the test readings. They are no >better at this sort of task than anybody else, which is one >reason I object so strongly to Dick Hall's elitist remark about >how only scientist were qualified to read and "validate" the >Ramey memo. Here we go again! Something I never said. >David Rudiak Keep up the good work, but lighten up about who besides yourself has any intelligence or relevant skills. - Dick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 15 Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? - From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 18:02:22 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 01:22:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? - >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 19:55:38 -0500 >Subject: Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? >>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 17:14:07 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? >>Two points I would like to make here: >>I don't think that Kaku or any of the others in that >>Interstellar Travel Panel were looking at travel in the local >>neighborhood, within perhaps 50 light years, nor were they >>familiar with work that has been done on nuclear fission and >>nuclear fusion rockets. They seemed much more into charismatic >>theoretical physics hand waving about multiple dimensions , >>warping space and time, etc. They weren't looking at huge >>motherships and small Earth Excursion Modules. >Certainly a valid point, and I'd be very careful not to >attribute Kaku's comments with all of those on the panel. I >think that given physics as we currently understand it, there >would be no way to travel lightyears (even within the local >neighborhood) in a reasonable length of time without the ability >to "fold" space in some way. We can speculate with regard to >faster than light travel, but it becomes very difficult to fit >that into our current understanding of the physical universe. On >the other hand, I'd be the first to admit that our understanding >is very limited. Kaku proposed that the amount of energy >required to "fold" space and travel from here to there, without >actually have to go the distance (so to speak), would require an >energy level that would likely exceed the energy output of the >Sun. Of course, these concepts fit neatly into the theoretical >physics that Kaku has proposed, and the validity of those >proposals has yet to be tested. <snip> I expect that Kaku's estimate of the amount of energy needed for interstellar travel is about as accurate as past estimates by a number of well educated academics who knew nothing about the engineering side of flight. Dr. Simon Newcomb published a scientific paper in October 1903 showing that the only way man would ever fly would be with the help of a lighter than air vehicle. This was 2 months before the first flight by the Wright brothers who had done loads of tests in their wind tunnel. In the 1920's Professor Bickerton "proved" that it would be impossible to give anything enough energy to launch it into orbit. My favorite is Dr. Campbell who in 1941 published an article "scientifically" calculating that the required initial launch weight for a chemical rocket to get a man to the moon and back would be a million million tons. He was too high by a factor of 300,000,000. He, like the others, made a host of totally wrong assumptions such as limiting the rocket to one G acceleration, much too low an exhaust velocity, using a single stage, slowing down upon return using a retrorocket, and assuming that the rocket had to supply all the energy instead of using cosmic freeloading such as the moon's gravitational pull to help get us there, like using the Earth's atmosphere to slow us down instead of accelerating, decelerating and then accelerating the fuel that would be used in a retrorocket. We launch to the East from near the equator. All our deep space satellites use free gravitational assists. Many use Radioactive Thermoelectric Devices using the decay of Pu-238 (provided by nature) rather than much more complicated systems. The amount of energy required for interstellar travel is entirely dependent on the assumptions that are made, not by theoretical physicists, but by aerospace engineers. Mission profile is crucial. There is a vast literature. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 15 Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer - Seguin From: Trevor Seguin <dragko@shaw.ca> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:41:06 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 01:34:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer - Seguin >From: Gord Heath <gwheath@shaw.ca> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 21:15:53 -0800 >Subject: Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer >>From: Trevor Seguin <dragko@shaw.ca> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 13:50:34 -0800 >>Subject: Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer ><snip> >>>>www.presidentialufo.com/pole_deer_hoax.htm >>>The tree deer is anything but weird. As far as I'm concerned, >>>and based on some common sense, the New York case has a >>>plausible and, don't be too disappointed folks, human >>>explanation to it though some are trying to make out to be much >>>more than that... >>I agree this is anything but strange. Cougars, other large cats >>and even bears, although rare, will drag a carcass into trees. >>The carcass must be small or the cougar must be large but it can >>be done. I know cougars are rare to non-existent in the New York >>area but there are probably some. In Manitoba there most >>definatly are a few. ><snip> >I just wished to point out that the contemporary range of the >cougar or mountain lion does not include Saskatchewan or >Manitoba. Please refer to: >http://members.tripod.com/endangeredtiger/mountainlionmap.JPG >Prehaps we are talking about a new cryptozoological find here? >The fabled eastern cougar makes a major statement that it is ready to >control its territory? >Or maybe just little bobcats or lynx dragging the carcasses of >deer up these >poles? >Or maybe a pack of feral housecats making ready for the winter? >But maybe something that we have not yet seen clear proof for... must >clearly be the actions of "homosim grendellum", the fearless and >carnivorousversion of Sasquatch, straying south of its normal >abodes in the deepest, >coldest parts of the northern Canadian taiga. >Okay, I jest. But perhaps the easy and obvious "wildlife predator" >explanations are no more normal than other speculation? Okay, I agree there is very few if any - which I did state, above - cougars anywhere in North America except the West coast. I was merely trying to convey that animals "Cougars, other large cats and even bears" to quote myself, are capable, and in certain conditions will resort to "hiding" a carcass in a tree. I agree this is a stretch. But as you state, no more of a stretch than any other speculation. And that's all it was speculation. I don't know if you have ever been to Manitoba but there aren't many sasquatches, ET's or even people there, either. ;-p I speak from my little experience of living in a wild area (Northern BC) which contains large animals, bears, cougars, mosquitoes - ok they are not that large, but close - I have seen everything from little pieces of a deer strewn around the forest to deer that appear to have been thrown off a cliff. I would say walking in my back yard, a deer in a tree would be interesting but would not cause too much concern. I mean no harm I was just adding what _little_ knowledge of the subject I possess. I tried to present my thought as a thought not a fact. My thought better communicated follows: "Strange happenings don't necessarily have strange origins." >Or maybe just little bobcats or lynx dragging the carcasses of >deer up these poles? I think you might be on to something here! Maybe Lynx are grouping together contrary to their social behaviour to try to make those big kills! ;-p Trevor
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 15 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 3 From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 19:42:56 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 01:38:41 -0500 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 3 Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor. <Masinaigan@aol.com> ========================== UFO ROUNDUP Volume 8, Number 3 January 15, 2003 Editor: Joseph Trainor http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/ ORANGE UFO HOVERS OVER PRETORIA "An unidentified flying object was sighted over Pretoria," the capital of South Africa, "according to several city residents who claim they all witnessed the same object on Monday night," January 6, 2003. "One of several callers to The Citizen yesterday (Tuesday, January 7, 2003) said they had seen a UFO flying over (the) Brooklyn and Waterkloof areas between 8:30 and 9:15 p.m." "People interviewed claimed the object, which made no sound, was roundish and bright orange in colour." "'It was an orange bright light that was moving in a north to south direction as I approached the Brooklyn Circle. It was moving slowly at about 500 meters (1,650 feet) above the ground before it stopped, switching its lights on and off. It disappeared behind a hill in Waterkloof,' said Moncilo Radovanovic." "Manager of a local take away (fast-food restaurant in the USA--J.T.) Mike Vermeulen said he saw the orange object hovering above a hill before it moved off at high speed." "'At first I thought it was a plane, helicopter or one of those airships, but realised it was nothing I had seen before. It made no noise and was moving silently. It was very interesting to watch,' said Vermeulen, 'It was definitely not just a normal bright light.'" "But the sighting could not be officially confirmed. General Manager of Air Traffic and Navigational Services Arthur Bradshaw said, 'We did not receive reports of anything.'" "A similar response was received from the (South African) Air Force, Police and airports in the vicinity." (See the South African newspaper The Citizen for January 8, 2003, pages 1 and 2. Many thanks to Dave G. for forwarding this newspaper article.) UFOs CAUSE WAR JITTERS IN BAKU, AZERBAIJAN "According to information given to the Olaylar News Agency by UFO expert Fuad Gasimov, the new appearance of UFOs in the sky" above Baku, the capital of Azerbaijan "symbolizes that 'it is clearly an alarm signal.'" Azerbaijan is a small country on the western shore of the Caspian Sea. Its neighbors are Iraq, focus of the current crisis in Southwest Asia, and Iran. "Gasimov is chairman of the Cosmic Seismological Department of the Azerbaijani National Cosmic Agency. 'Something must happen,' he said, 'If we analyze the processes going on in the world, we would observe that the probability of war becomes high in Iraq.'" "First the UFOs appeared over Baku on (Thursday) January 2 (2003). The residents of the Third Mikrorayon of Baku had a chance to shoot video footage of the objects in the morning at 8 a.m., which was later broadcast on ANS-TV. The footage shocked everyone who saw it." "Gasimov stated that the appearance of UFOs in the region is an indication of the probability of a major war in Iraq." "'They are trying to prevent the war,' he said." "The appearance of UFOs in Azerbaijan's skies may be considered a warning against the (Islamic) republic, too, the expert says. If the war breaks out, the objects are against the use of Azerbaijan's airports" in the conflict. "'They don't want mankind revealing their secrets,' Gasimov said, 'But there are some facts showing that UFOs keep in touch with certain scientists. The objects keep in touch with these individuals by means of the Morse (code) alphabet for telepathy signals and they transmit information related to the future.'" "According to Gasimov, (physicist Albert) Einstein first had the idea for an A-bomb (atomic bomb) after he had a dream." "Also, a German scientist who invented the bomb wrote in his memoirs that he had invented it in his dreams." (Editor's Note: Gasimov may be referring to Frederick A. Lindemann, a.k.a. Viscount Cherwell, who was Winston Churchill's confidant and science advisor during World War II.) "'All this provides grounds for these claims being true,' Gasimov said." (See the newspaper Baku Today for January 7, 2003. Merci beaucoup a Robert Fischer de France OVNI pour cette article de journal.) (Editor's Comment: Baku is only 600 kilometers or 360 miles north of Zarzi in Iraq's Irbil province, the alleged site of an alien underground base. Are the aliens trying to run the Allied air blockade by sneaking in Iraq's back door? For more on Zarzi, see UFO Roundup, volume 7, number 51 for December 17, 2002, "Saddam's Area 51?" on page 2.) FLYING FIREBALLS DOMINATE THE SKY OVER BUENOS AIRES On Saturday, January 11, 2003, beginning at 8:30 p.m., numerous "flying fireballs" were seen over Buenos Aires, the capital of Argentina. According to Argentinian ufologist Ricardo E. D'Angelo, "Right now, Buenos Aires is experiencing a massive wave of UFOs, possibly the most intense of the past few years." "Balls of fire, crossing the sky at high and low altitudes and in all directions, were observed by thousands of Portenos (slang word for residents of Buenos Aires--J.T.) and videotaped between 8:30 p.m. and 10 p.m. I myself counted 23 of them in the sky at one time, and I am accustomed to seeing satellites pass overhead. These were definitely not satellites." "The balls of fire were three to four times more luminous than Venus. They appeared repeatedly over La Boca, San Francisco, Santa Fe, the Avenida Nueve de Julio and other sections of the city." "Many of the fireballs had small pulsing lights at their outside edges--colorful blue at the tips but also red and green." "Later in the evening, ten of the phenomena crossed the sky from one side to the other, entering heavily- populated barrios (neighborhoods--J.T.), in which they were witnessed by many people. Their speed varied greatly, ranging from hovering stationary to showing a very high velocity at times, appearing and disappearing without any regard for logic." (Muchas gracias a Ricardo E. D'Angelo para eso informe.) MORE STAR-LIKE UFOs SEEN IN AUSTRALIA On Friday, December 27, 2002, at 10:30 p.m., two men were camping out in Australia's Snowy River National Park, near Buchan, Victoria state, about 350 kilometers (210 miles) east of Melbourne, when they spotted some UFOs. "Myself and my friend Steve were camping out on a bare mountaintop called One Tree Hill," the witness reported, "We saw these medium-sized 'stars' moving across the sky at the speed of a fast satellite in a sideways triangular formation. First spotted directly above in the centre of the sky. They appeared white and moved at exactly the same speed, were exactly the same size, and the triangle formation was this: the distance between the leading star and the trailing star, which followed in the exact same path, was four fingers width at arm's length; the middle star was offset to the right halfway between the two and was two fingers from the imaginary line (connecting) the other two, which were exactly in line following each other. So the 'triangle' had half its height at the longest side." "The colour was white, but I am a bit red-green colour blind and would not have noticed if it was a bit red. My friend is not colour blind and did not notice colour, either. The lights did not change formation that we saw. Our location was about 120 kilometers (72 miles) from the New South Wales border." The witness also wondered if he had seen the same formation of lights that was seen by David M. and his relatives that same Friday night, while they were fishing on the Macquarie River near Ponto, N.S.W. "We were 700 kilometers (420 miles) south of those three fishermen." (Email Form Report) (Editor's Note: For more on the sighting in Ponto, N.S.W., see UFO Roundup, volume 8, number 2 for January 8, 2003, "Three UFOs spotted in New South Wales," page 2.) MYSTERIOUS FIREBALL STRIKES PUERTO RICO "An object of unknown origin crashed against the leaves of a palm tree last Wednesday (January 1, 2003) and burned about a meter of grass in the backyard of a San Juan residence, according to Puerto Rican police officials." "According to the report, a strong smell of sulfur inundated the site shortly after the fall occurred in a family dwelling in Carolina, the municipality adjacent to San Juan," the capital of Puerto Rico. "The property was owned by Matmari and Martin Rodriguez Carrasquillo." "The couple advised authorities of the incident a few days after it occurred. Police advised the Arecibo Observatory in northern Puerto Rico of the event. Officials for the Observatory and the Environmental Quality Board conducted a radiation test, yielding results which showed that the object came from beyond Earth's atmosphere, according to the police report." (See the Puerto Rican newspaper El Mundo for January 6, 2003, "Mysterious object falls in Puerto Rico." Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales y Guillermo Gimenez para eso articulo de diario.) THREE DAYLIGHT DISCS SEEN IN BRITISH COLUMBIA On Saturday, January 4, 2003, at 2:40 p.m., "a woman and her passenger were driving along the highway at the foot of the Rosswood mountain range" in Canada's British Columbia province "when they saw three white circular objects hovering near the peak" of Rosswood Mountain. According to Canadian ufologist Brian Vike, "The (woman) driver stopped the truck, and they both watched the objects as they slowly descended down the mountain. She explained that there was a small hill in front of the mountain. The objects dropped down behind the smaller hill, and both witnesses lost sight of them. She said they sat watching for a short while just in case whatever they saw showed up again." Rosswood, B.C. is 42 miles (67 kilometers) north of Terrace, B.C., which has been the site of a UFO flap for over a year. (Many thanks to Brian Vike for this report.) FLYING-WING UFO SEEN BY TWO IN CALGARY, ALBERTA On Friday, January 10, 2003, at 9:30 p.m., D.K. and his sister were "star-gazing" in Calgary, Alberta, Canada when they both noticed something strange. "My sister and I were star-gazing that night," D.K. reported, "Our eyes had adjusted to the low light, and we had to strain them to see most of the stars due to light pollution from the city." "There was heavy air traffic that night. The unusual aspect of this sighting comes from the fact that it was very hard to see. Like a shadow against the night sky. It flew right over the city (Calgary) centre, coming in from the east. I believe our eyes were sensitive to the low light, and this allowed us to see the craft. From our vantage point, it looked one kilometer (0.6 miles) away." "The actual shape was hard to make out. A large wing comes to mind. It was flying faster than most aircraft I've seen over the city. It flew east to west for what seemed like several seconds, then banked and headed in a northeasterly direction. We were able to watch it for several more seconds before it vanished into darkness. I realize now that I detected a distinct sound from it. This sighting did not leave us in awe. More like an uneasy feeling." (Email Form Report) LUMINOUS UFOs SPOTTED IN AURELIA, IOWA On Thursday, January 2, 2003, at 8:10 p.m., the witness reported, "I was driving home from work," going from Cherokee to Aurelia, Iowa (population 1,062), "and I noticed a bright object in the sky to the northeast. I watched it for a while and noticed that there were red, green and white lights on the object and thought it was a plane." "The longer I watched it, I noticed it was not moving. It was at this time that I noticed another object exactly like" the first one "to the southeast in front of me. Neither one was moving." "Then I noticed an airplane above the object on my left, and that made it very evident that what I was watching was just sitting there. But the other object was not moving, either." "I got within a half-mile of the town, Aurelia, where I live. I tried to call my husband to tell him, but the phone was busy. When I got home, I told him what I had seen and that I had tried to call, and he asked me when. I said just a couple of minutes ago. He hadn't been on the phone, and my computer was really having problems--my connection is through a satellite." "I know this sounds crazy, but I had a similar experience several years ago in northwestern Iowa" when "my children and I witnessed a UFO only a couple of hundred feet away. So this incident aroused my curiosity." Aurelia, Iowa is on Highway 7 about 60 miles (100 kilometers) northeast of Sioux City. (Many thanks to John Hoppe of UFO Wisconsin for this report.) MOON MYSTERY: A SECRET CAVE OR TUNNEL AT COPERNICUS CRATER? Observations made by an American astronomer have rekindled the debate as to whether or not "somebody else is on the moon." Writing in the February 2003 issue of Sky and Telescope, Stephen James O'Meara noted, "And so it was on the evening of December 19, 1996, when, on a whim, I turned my 4-inch (10-centimeter) f/5 refractor (telescope) to the Moon at dusk. The Moon was three days past first quarter, and, despite the visual chaos that marks the day-night terminator, my eye was instinctively drawn to a tiny shadow inside the crater Copernicus. At 23X the interior structure of the crater's north wall looked curious. It was as if someone had spray-painted a spiral pattern, like graffiti, across its face." "When I increased the magnification fivefold, the spiral pattern tightened to a dark center that, for all I could tell, was a hole in the crater wall as black as squid ink." "The sight reminded me of one of the high caves occupied by ancient cliff dwellers" in the USA's Southwest. "I immediately began drawing the feature at about 7:50 p.m. Hawaii Standard Time. When I finished, I penned 'the Cave in Copernicus' next to the drawing and called it 'hypnotic!' By 9:30 p.m., the rotation of the Moon had carried the shadow away from the Cave, which lost definition and eventually disappeared." "Wondering if the same conditions of light and shadow would repeat during the next lunation, I tried, but failed, to see it. In fact, a combination of factors--bad weather, travel plans, wrong Sun illumination angle--prevented me from seeing the Cave again until the evening of January 7, 1998, more than a year after my initial sighting." "Alas, even on that night I missed the key time to see the Cave by about an hour. Although I could see some sections of the spiral structure in the north wall, it was not complete. And the black hole of the Cave, which made my eyes widen with wonder in 1996, was but a bland, rectangular patch of deep penumbra." "An observation on February 6, 1998 brought further disappointment. This time I could see the outer and inner spiral, but no central cavity--just another penumbral shading. Obviously, seeing the Cave again was not going to be as simple as I thought." In his article, O'Meara provided a list of dates favorable for seeing the Cave, which may be a natural lunar feature. Then again, in 1996, he might have seen the tunnel of an underground alien base with its blast doors open. UFO Roundup readers who have 6-inch (15- centimeter) telescopes may want to hunt for the Cave themselves. The most favorable viewing is at the following dates and UTC times: February 11, 2003 at 18.2 UTC March 13, 2003 at 8.0 UTC April 11, 2003 at 20.8 UTC May 11, 2003 at 8.6 UTC June 9, 2003 at 19.6 UTC July 9, 2003 at 6.2 UTC "On November 24, 1966, Lunar Orbiter 2 was 46 kilometers (27 miles) above the Moon's surface, looking north, when it caught (a) dramatic, oblique view of Copernicus. The crater's central peaks are below center, and beyond them (on the north wall) is the region of O'Meara's Cave." Armed with his copy of Sky & Telescope, your editor visited the public library, plucked their copy of the same magazine off the shelf, and laid both side by side on the reading table. Then, using a pair of Barska binoculars, he created a 3-D image of the Copernicus crater overhead and oblique angle photos. (Editor's Comment: Yes, I occasionally do recon photo analysis in addition to everything else I do around here.) "There appears to be one or more dark spots in the north wall in the spot indicated by O'Meara," UFO Roundup editor Joseph Trainor said. "The spot on the right, or east, is rectangular in shape. It could be the entrance to an old lava tube similar to those found in Hawaii. But, then again, it could be artificial--carved out of the perpendicular crater wall." "What is really interesting is the 1966 Lunar Orbiter 2 photo. Just beneath the Cave is what looks like a level, man-made dirt road about 1.7 kilometers long, with a 10 to 15 degree upgrade. It might be a road leading up to the cave from the crater floor. Only the jumbled rocks to the left obscure the view, preventing us from seeing if the 'road' indeed reaches the crater floor." "Just to be certain, I did the same 'stereoscopic' view of Copernicus, using the telescope photo of the crater in David Hatcher Childress's book Extraterrestrial Archaeology. Both the 'spiral' and O'Meara's Cave were visible on the crater's north wall in that photo, as well." (See Sky & Telescope for February 2003, "The 'Cave' in Copernicus," pages 109 to 111. Also Extraterrestrial Archaeology by David Hatcher Childress, Adventures Unlimited Press, Kempton, IL, page 58.) PHOTON BELT DISCOVERED AROUND THE MILKY WAY "With its black hole nursing an eating disorder, its magnetic lines tangled like spaghetti and a ring of clutter left from a collision with a dwarf, Earth's home galaxy looks more and more like a mess that not even Martha Stewart could pretty up." "Astronomers have long known the glittering firmament of the Milky Way wheeling overhead on a clear night is a peaceful illusion that masks cosmic violence and chaos. But a series of recent observations have revealed new variations on the theme." "Scientists said Monday (January 6, 2003) they have discovered a previously unsuspected belt of stars encircling the galaxy like a giant undulating hula hoop 120,000 light-years on diameter." "Astronomers believe the star belt is the tell-tale remnant of a collision between the Milky Way and a smaller 'dwarf' galaxy and could help explain how the galaxy formed about 10 billion years ago." Curiously, the discovery comes nearly seven years after the first mysterious "Photon Belt" messages were received by a few members of the UFO community. The Photon Belt controversy was the subject of an intense Internet debate during 1996. The initial messages claimed that Earth "will soon discover the Photon Belt." But subsequent messages, plus debate, claimed that Earth would enter the Photon Belt, and that this event would cause climate disturbances and other planetary changes. (See the Duluth, Minn. News-Tribune for January 7, 2003, "Star belt surrounds Milky Way galaxy," page 5A.) EXPLODING STAR THRILLS EARTH'S ASTRONOMERS "Tremendous eruptions are occurring on a bright star in the nighttime sky, astronomers say." "Located in the constellation Cassiopeia, the 'hypergiant' star Rho Cassiopeiae lost mass equal to 10,000 times the weight of Earth during one tremendous outburst in 2000, astronomers at the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics say." "Visible to the naked eye and many times larger than Earth's sun, Rho Cassiopeiae has intrigued scentists since 1946. Only a dozen such hypergiants are known, and scientists suspect that Rho Cassiopeiae will soon destroy itself in a supernova explosion. The scientists are hoping to determine what triggers such eruptions before the stars die." (See USA Today for January 8, 2003, "Dying star's huge eruptions analyzed," page 5D.) From the UFO Files... 1970: ALIEN ENCOUNTER IN FINLAND On January 7, 1970, "while skiing close to sunset" near Heinola, Finland, "Aarno Heinomen, 36, and Esko Viljo, 38, heard a strange buzzing sound which became louder. A very bright light approached and hovered about 15 meters (50 feet) in front of them." "An apparently metallic object could be seen surrounded by a 'luminous gray fog.' It was a domed disc about 3 meters (10 feet) in diameter with three hemispherical protrusions spaced around the lower surface and a tube about 25 centimeters (10 inches) in diameter in the center. The UFO descended slowly and the 'fog' disappeared." "About 4 meters (13 feet) from the ground the buzzing sound stopped and a beam of light emerged from the central tube to the ground." "Within the light beam was a small humanoid figure (90 centimeters or 3 feet tall--J.T.) with a white face, and a cone-shaped bright metallic 'hat.' He had on gray coveralls and green boots. He was holding a small black box from which came a blinding ray of light. The fog then reappeared and red and green sparkles burst out from the luminous circle as the fog became heavy. The light beam re-entered the tube and suddenly the UFO was gone." "Heinomen was fainting and paralyzed on the right side." "It took the men two hours to reach the nearest village, which was 2 kilometers (1.2 miles) away. Heinomen was suffering headaches, vomiting and breathing with difficulty. He felt pain all over, was cold, and could not keep his equilibrium." "Viljo had a red, swollen face and also lost his equilibrium. His hands and chest were covered with red spots. Other witnesses (cross-country skiers--J.T.) had also seen a bright light that night." (See the book Uninvited Guests by Richard Hall, Aurora Press, Santa Fe, New Mexico, 1988, page 267.) Well, that's it for this week. Join us in seven days for more UFO, Fortean and paranormal news, brought to you by "the paper that goes home--UFO Roundup." See you next time! UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2003 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post news items from UFO Roundup on their websites or in news groups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue in which the item first appeared. E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com> or use the Sighting Report Form at: http://www.ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Website comments: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> UFOINFO: http://www.ufoinfo.com Official Archives of UFO Roundup, AUFORN Australian UFO Reports and Experiences, UFO + PSI Magazine, plus archives of Filer's Files, Oz Files, UFO News UK and UFO Sightings Italia. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- UFO Roundup is only sent to subscribers. If you wish to unsubscribe or feel you have received the bulletin in error, please write to: <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> With the subject: Unsubscribe UFO Roundup. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 15 Re: Effective Lobbying And Public Education - From: Keith Rowell <kerowell@attbi.com> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 21:13:44 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 01:43:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Effective Lobbying And Public Education - >From: Ed Case <case_ed@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:03:53 +0000 >Subject: Effective Lobbying And Public Education >I have some questions and comments for the List: >1) What are the best ways to educate the public and lobby >effectively for the disclosure and dissemination of UFO related >information? How can local activists best present UFO >information to the public? >2) What are the best reasons for the public to support >disclosure? What would the primary benefits be if there was >significant disclosure by national and international >governments? ? Are there any potential hazards related to >disclosure? <snip> >Good research (and personal/organizational integrity are very >important - but shouldn't public education and effective >lobbying for disclosure be our main focus? I have to agree with you wholeheartedly. Greer has some personal flaws (who doesn't) and he should have vetted his witnesses better, but he is doing exactly the right thing at this time with UFOs. About 15 years ago, I decided that what was really needed in the field of ufology was more lobbying not more studying. The UFO has been ably studied by competent folks who have written fine books and articles. But somehow this has not been enough to turn the tide for establishment people on UFO reality. What stands in the way of public acknowledgement of the reality of UFOs is not the science of UFOs but the politics of UFOs. And the politics is controlled by the powers that be: establishment media and establishment science. And both take their cue from the military establishment. Ufology should emulate the activist practices of movements like the environmental movement and other movements for social change. But, of course, there is no money in ufology so little gets done -- even when people are clear-headed about what needs to be done like Steven Greer, Stephen Bassett, and Larry Bryant. Anyway, great post! On another note, do you know of any abductee support groups in the Eugene area? We have a self-identified abductee in that area who is interested. I'm from the Portland area and don't know what is going on in Eugene "UFO-wise." Keith Rowell, MUFON investigator and Research Specialist in Librarianship
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 15 Re: Corso - Gates From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 01:37:46 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 01:46:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Gates >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 12:27:17 -0500 >Subject: Re: Corso Steve wrote: >There was a tremendous amount of tension between he and Birnes >toward the end and I certainly wouldn't simply accept Birne's >description of the facts in this case. Prior to his death, I >understand that Corso was considering legal action against >Birnes and the publisher, so there are a number of issues >involved in this (most of which will never be clearly defined >and are to a great extent irrelevent at this point). There are a >few other researchers that have not weighed in on this >discussion who had direct contact with Corso and know far more >about the difficulties that developed. I would point out that in the 5 or so years since Corsos death, his family (who made one attempt with the corsofiles.com which ended in some kind of disagreement) has chosen to let the entire manuscript/story/tale ride on the back burner apparently not a high priority item. Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 15 Mission: Identify Those Flying Objects From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 02:04:39 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 02:04:39 -0500 Subject: Mission: Identify Those Flying Objects http://www.sacbee.com/content/lifestyle/story/5884951p-6848710c.html Mission: Identify Those Flying Objects Sacramento man well-known among UFO trackers for his careful scrutiny of NASA flights By Will Evans - Bee Staff Writer Published 2:15 a.m. PST Tuesday, January 14, 2003 Thursday, when NASA launches another shuttle into orbit, the folks at Mission Control won't be the only ones following its every move. Jeff Challender will be watching every second of shuttle footage available on cable television from his Sacramento home. And he'll be recording it, adding it to his collection of hundreds of missions, for proof. Proof of what, he doesn't know. But Challender, 49, believes National Aeronautics and Space Administration cameras are catching glances of UFOs. Alien spacecraft, space animals, secret government experiments or none of the above - Challender has no idea what they are. But despite debunkers who say he's staring at ice particles or other space junk, Challender doesn't think the white spots occasionally moving across his screen can be explained by normal means. These flying objects are, at least for him, "unidentified." "I don't go for the flying saucers and little green men routine," he says. "All I know is that there is something appearing on NASA video that doesn't belong there." Though there are many UFO trackers in Sacramento, he's one of only a handful in the world that scope NASA flights for clues. And for his patience and dedication to detail, watching video that he says produces about 10 seconds of "interesting" material out of several hundred hours, he has become respected as a self- taught "expert" in the wider UFO community. "He has probably more expertise than anyone else, certainly outside of government, in looking at the film," says George Filer, a retired Air Force major who runs a UFO Web site from New Jersey. Challender, disabled by a severe spinal injury, lies on a mattress surrounded by an arsenal of recording equipment for his work: nine VCRs, stacks of VHS tapes, two DVD burners and a DVD player. With his massive, hand-built, quadruple-hard-drive computer in front, he seems suspended in some kind of space vessel himself. But the only thing that hints of extraterrestrial interests is a little silver alien, perched on top of his computer. Challender grabs the NASA footage from Channel 72, run by the Sacramento Educational Cable Consortium. From this mission he'll probably examine 30 to 40 hours of tape, sometimes straight from breakfast to when his family calls him to dinner. The longtime aviation junkie started taping missions in 1997, just for fun, to edit each one into a documentary. But in 1999, he saw something that grabbed his attention: an illuminated dot, pulsating as it whizzed across the screen. Then, later, he saw many white dots moving around, changing direction and speed. What were they? Challender has been tracking similar "anomalies" ever since. "I want answers," says the former railroad laborer. "I believe something's going on and the facts are being kept from us." NASA isn't so sure. "I'm not aware of any visuals of (extraterrestrial) activity," says Fred Brown, executive producer of NASA Television. Challender points to incidents where the camera seems to zoom in on one of the dots and then cuts off the live footage - signs, he says, of a coverup. Nonsense, Brown says. "If those things were out there and we were trying to hide them, we wouldn't put them on NASA Television." Challender is probably seeing bits of liquid or ice, close to the camera, blown around by jets of gas from the shuttle, says Seth Shostak, an astronomer at the SETI Institute, a nonprofit organization running what used to be NASA's "Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence." "You have to be careful," he says. "They're very impressive if you're naive." But Jack Kasher, a retired University of Nebraska, Omaha, physicist, says he's viewed Challender's findings, concluding that they aren't ice particles and challenging anyone who says so to prove it. Still, Shostak says, why would SETI spend millions searching for alien radio signals if there were Martians buzzing around every NASA mission? Shostak believes that there is alien life. If 10 percent of stars had planets and 1 percent of those supported life, there could be millions of worlds with life just in our galaxy, he calculates. But NASA would have no incentive to hide any evidence. "That would be the greatest thing for NASA. Their budget would go up instead of going down," he says. Bernard Haisch, ex-director of the California Institute for Physics and Astrophysics, has led several NASA studies, and doesn't think the civilian agency is involved in any coverup - but he thinks there probably is one. In fact, there are quite a few government people and aviation experts - even famed astronauts Gordon Cooper and Edgar Mitchell - who believe the government knows more than it's telling. "I know there's something out there because I've chased 'em," Filer says. Flying in the Air Force in 1962, he was ordered to follow a supernaturally large object detected by radar and came close enough to see its lights before it disappeared. Aviators apparently have so many such experiences that one ex- NASA scientist founded the National Aviation Reporting Center on Anomalous Phenomena, which compiles UFO reports from pilots. Since the government no longer investigates UFO reports, the task falls on these private organizations and on amateurs. The Mutual UFO Network, for example, is dedicated to investigating all sightings. Cynthia Siegel, director of the Sacramento chapter, is training half a dozen locals to become "field investigators," to document sightings with interviews, photographs and video - even soil samples. "There are so many more accounts than people realize," Siegel says. The National UFO Reporting Center recorded two Sacramento-area reports in December: a "cigar-shaped craft" and a "triangular craft with three large white lights." Challender, searching for more using a different technique, founded Project P.R.O.V.E. It stands for "People Recording Orbiting Vehicles from Earth," which says it all. Challender holds his ordinary camcorder to the sky when the International Space Station passes over Sacramento and waits for something unusual. So far ... nothing. "But I don't give up hope," he says. An even more difficult project may be establishing credibility for UFO buffs. To help change the kooky image, Linda Willitts of Folsom works on Project Disclosure, which gathers testimony from top government and military figures who "believe." On the other hand, she participates in what some consider the definition of kooky, traveling around the country to summon ETs through meditation. "We ask them to show up and they always do," she says. That's not Challender's style. He shirks the "true believer" label and diligently fills out incident reports for everything he sees, striving to be scientific. Yet, he knows he's unlikely to solve the puzzle from his home in Sacramento. "The only way I will find out is with full government disclosure. Or if something lands in my front yard and asks me if I want a ride," he says with a chuckle. "But I'm not holding out for that." [UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 15 Many Share Theories Over Bra Fence 'UFO' From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 02:07:51 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 02:07:51 -0500 Subject: Many Share Theories Over Bra Fence 'UFO' http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,2191491a4560,00.html Many Share Theories Over Bra Fence 'UFO' 15 January 2003 Image at: http://www.stuff.co.nz/inl/images/flags/ufo.jpg Was it a blur on the lens, a doctored image, a large and misshapen bird, or was it a visitor from another planet? No one knows for sure, but dozens of people called a national radio morning talkback show to share their thoughts about the object in a photograph printed in the Otago Daily Times yesterday. The photo was taken by Dunedin man Tom Ueyama, who was left baffled as to what the flying saucer shaped object was, which appears in his shot of the Cardrona bra fence taken on December 28. Today, dozens of people phoned the Auckland based station to relay their own experiences with unidentified flying objects, some of which, were in the lower South Island, around the same as Mr Ueyama's experience and resembled what appears in the bra fence photograph. Waikouaiti man Mac Lotter yesterday called the ODT to relay what he saw while driving from Waikouaiti to Palmerston, "a couple of days after Christmas". "There was something in the sky which looked to be levelling up with me from a distance. "It was a really clear day and it was so vivid," Mr Lotter, who does not believe in UFOs, said. He described the object as a pure white flat saucer shape. "I stopped to get my camera, but when I looked up again it had vanished." Dunedin Astronomical Society president Peter Jaquiery said there was nothing "particularly obvious" about the object. "I am a bit intrigued about the dark area above it, but that doesn't indicate anything obvious either." He said he doubted it was the vehicle of a visitor from outer space. A spokesman for the Royal New Zealand Air Force confirmed no air force planes were in the area around the time in question. [UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 15 Re: An Abduction Checklist - Gates From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 01:52:27 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 15:39:43 -0500 Subject: Re: An Abduction Checklist - Gates >From: Michael Harman <rocketman5047@yahoo.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 08:01:34 -0800 (PST) >Subject: An Abduction Checklist <snip> > 4. Is the world going to end in 2006? Read "The Bible Code II >The Countdown" In it you'll find several very clear Bible Codes >for THE END OF THE WORLD... Can we change this outcome? Are >these 3,000 year old codes imbedded in the Hebrew text accurate, >or they simply chance? > 5. More Bible Codes: "ATOMIC HOLOCAUST IN 2006", "WORLD WAR >2006"," END OF DAYS TERRORISM PLAGUE", NEW YORK IN 2004 FROM >THE >FIRE OF A MISSILE"," ETOMIC ATACK CHEMICAL ATTACK", "THE NEXT >TERRORIST ATOMIC", "WAR OF BUSH"," G.W. BUSH PRESIDENT IN THE >END OF DAYS"..Quotes are from the book Get it today.... "The >Bible Code II The Countdown" By Drosnin So what I want to know is when 2006 comes and goes and the end of the world doesn't happen, can we dismiss the Bible Code books as a load of garbage? Much like the alleged and supposed Planet X drival published by Hazelwood, or the earlier claims about ET mass landings to happen in the desert SW on April 24th 1997, or ET landings on a desert mountaintop in Dec of 2000. Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 15 Re: Story Of The Pole Deer - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 23:35:50 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 15:42:09 -0500 Subject: Re: Story Of The Pole Deer - Hatch >From: Trevor Seguin <dragko@shaw.ca> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:41:06 -0800 >Subject: Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer >>From: Gord Heath <gwheath@shaw.ca> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 21:15:53 -0800 >>Subject: Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer <snip> >Okay, I agree there is very few if any - which I did state, above >- cougars anywhere in North America except the West coast. I was >merely trying to convey that animals "Cougars, other large cats >and even bears" to quote myself, are capable, and in certain >conditions will resort to "hiding" a carcass in a tree. I agree >this is a stretch. But as you state, no more of a stretch than >any other speculation. And that's all it was speculation. Hello Trevor and Gord: I distinctly recall a PBS natural science TV special about some big cats in Africa. I doubt they were lions, and didn't look like cheetahs. In any case, they laid in wait for the annual migration of a huge herds of ruminants; wildebeests or some such. At a river crossing, where the animals were more vulnerable, these big cats would attack the newborn (wildecalves?) who didn't stand a chance. The telephoto camera studied one cat in particular. It had "rights" to this fair-sized tree, denuded of greenery. This cat pulled up each and every calf, and hung it over a branch, then went back for another one. Try to envision this tree with maybe half a dozen dead calves decorating every limb. I suppose this preserved the catch from hyenas, jackals .. Each calf looked to be 2/3 the mass of the hunter! I kept asking myself, how is this cat going to eat all that meat before it rots? I would not be a bit surprised if it turns out North American wildcats use much the same strategy. My only dog would bury bones for no apparent reason. Nobody "trained" him to do so. Best wishes - Larry Hatch
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 15 Re: n Abduction Checklist - Sanchez-Ocejo From: Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <ufomiami@prodigy.net> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 08:10:17 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 15:44:57 -0500 Subject: Re: n Abduction Checklist - Sanchez-Ocejo >From: Michael Harman <rocketman5047@yahoo.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 08:01:34 -0800 (PST) >Subject: An Abduction Checklist >Abduction Checklist <snip> This is another way to see an abduction: - The Universal Declaration of Human Rights was conceived as the first part of an international bill of right. Afraid of a psychological mass manipulation, like those of Hitler and Stalin, the declaration in one part, proclaims freedom of thought, and conscience. And this is the part that most concerns Ufology as an international problem. There are ebes, like the one known as the "Gray", that with their abduction programs, manipulating our consciousness throughout the world, are violating our freedom of thought and conscience. These entities, whatever they are and whatever they come from, in one way or the other, are altering our free will. Also, they have not prevent wars (World War I and II, Korea, Vietnam, etc.) and maybe now with Iraq. They have not prevent nuclear explosions (Hiroshima, Nagasaki, underground tests, even in the Pacific Ocean). Neither have they avoided ecological problem (oil spills in the sea, loss of our fauna etc.). There is not a positive act in which they have demonstrated what they profess. Therefore, we call them liars. Their purpose is to manipulate our conscience, through encounters and abductions and, at the same time, with the knowledge of the danger that cause the outgrowth of the "Ufology Archetype". These entities are a real danger to our conscience.- Dr. Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo Miami UFO Center
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 15 Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? - From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 05:54:18 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 15:49:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? - >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 18:02:22 -0400 >Subject: Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? >>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 19:55:38 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? <snip> >I expect that Kaku's estimate of the amount of energy needed for >interstellar travel is about as accurate as past estimates by a >number of well educated academics who knew nothing about the >engineering side of flight. >Dr. Simon Newcomb published a scientific paper in October 1903 >showing that the only way man would ever fly would be with the >help of a lighter than air vehicle. This was 2 months before the >first flight by the Wright brothers who had done loads of tests >in their wind tunnel. >In the 1920's Professor Bickerton "proved" that it would be >impossible to give anything enough energy to launch it into >orbit. >My favorite is Dr. Campbell who in 1941 published an article >"scientifically" calculating that the required initial launch >weight for a chemical rocket to get a man to the moon and back >would be a million million tons. He was too high by a factor of >300,000,000. He, like the others, made a host of totally wrong >assumptions such as limiting the rocket to one G acceleration, >much too low an exhaust velocity, using a single stage, slowing >down upon return using a retrorocket, and assuming that the >rocket had to supply all the energy instead of using cosmic >freeloading such as the moon's gravitational pull to help get us >there, like using the Earth's atmosphere to slow us down instead >of accelerating, decelerating and then accelerating the fuel >that would be used in a retrorocket. >We launch to the East from near the equator. All our deep space >satellites use free gravitational assists. Many use Radioactive >Thermoelectric Devices using the decay of Pu-238 (provided by >nature) rather than much more complicated systems. The amount of >energy required for interstellar travel is entirely dependent on >the assumptions that are made, not by theoretical physicists, >but by aerospace engineers. Mission profile is crucial. There is >a vast literature. Stan, I just wanted to interject one comment here in this discussion. Scientists such as Kaku will discuss hypothetical aliens and hypothetical alien civilizations and extrapolate hypothetical energy requirements, but will not deal with real aliens who accomplish real interstellar travel and have solved the problem whether we can conjecture as to how it was done or not. Unless Kaku and others want to discuss real flying saucers, then we are carrying out a discourse on two different levels. Bill Hamilton
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 15 FILER'S FILES #3 -- 2003 From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 14:34:20 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 15:51:26 -0500 Subject: FILER'S FILES #3 -- 2003 FILER'S FILES #3 -- 2003 Skywatch Investigations. George A. Filer, Director Mutual UFO Network Eastern January 14, 2003, Majorstar@aol.com Webmaster: Chuck Warren -- My new website is at: www.Georgefiler.com UFO SIGHTINGS HOLD STEADY, WAVE PREDICTED IN MARCH. The purpose of these files is to report the UFO eyewitness and photo/video evidence that occurs on a daily basis around the world and in space. UFO wave predicted in March, Raelian movement and irrational thought, Maine the vehicle was completely silent and very big, New York three flying triangles, Pennsylvania diamond oval shaped object, Maryland sphere strange bright lights, Virginia cigar shaped UFO affects car, North Carolina oval shaped UFO spotted, Georgia beacon in sky, Florida domed craft, Alabama egg causes battery failure, Iowa's hovering objects, Missouri white, red, and green lights, Kansas discs photographed, Oklahoma flying black cigar, Texas UFO with lights around the perimeter, Colorado teardrop, California pilot spots flying triangle, Canada three large circular objects, UK bright silver light, Italian sightings will set record in 2002, South Africa UFO follows satellite, and Australian spheres sighted. Letter from Priest and a Chimpanzee started Aids. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. Sir Arthur C. Clarke. UFO WAVE PREDICTED IN MARCH 2003 Donald A. Johnson, Ph.D., and UFOCAT archivist for the Center for UFO Studies writes, "Based upon a careful analysis of trends in historical UFO reports in the UFOCAT database, I am making the following prediction. There will be a worldwide UFO wave in the month of March 2003 that will reach its maximum between March 15 and March 25, 2003. I am reasonably confident that this wave will involve Northern Europe. Another likely region is the Pacific Ocean, including Japan and the Hawaiian Islands, and possibly the Alaskan Aleutian Islands. I wanted to go on the record now, a full seven weeks before the anticipated peak in UFO activity, before any upswing in reporting starts. I would like people to keep their eyes and ears open. I am reasonably certain about the timing, if extrapolations from previous peaks can be trusted. The worldwide wave, will probably not be centered in North America. A paper outlining my reasons for this prediction will follow. Thanks to Donald A. Johnson, Ph.D., UFOCAT archivist Center for UFO Studies, ufocat@cufos.org RAELIAN MOVEMENT AND IRRATIONAL THOUGHT The Directors UFO Research Coalition composed of the J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO Studies, the Mutual UFO Network, and the Fund for UFO Research announced on January 8, 2003,: LIMA, OHIO -- This is in response to a recent news release by the Raelian Movement, which supports human cloning, stating their belief in a claim by a French journalist that "on December 13, 1973 he was contacted by a "visitor from another planet and asked to establish an Embassy to welcome extraterrestrials as "the ones who made all life on Earth" begin and were "the origin of (our) main religions." It is important for all scientists (and others) to know that this claim is not supported by the community of serious researchers of the UFO phenomenon. Furthermore, the support by the Raelian Movement of the Intelligent Design or I.D. Movement is evidence of their lack of the understanding and application of the scientific method or a true understanding of evolution. The officers, scholars, and other researchers associated with the J.Allen Hynek Center for UFO Studies, the Mutual UFO Network, and the Fund for UFO Research, recognize that the scientific method of physical examination, replication, and being predictable must be applied to the serious study of the UFO phenomenon as reported by many hundreds of thousands of individuals worldwide over the history of the subject. The anecdotal claims of conversations with purported unidentified entities or sightings of unidentified flying objects require a very high level of organized analysis and study by scientists trained in many formal disciplines. The unverifiable anecdotal testimony of a 56-year-old former French magazine sportswriter does not meet the standards of credible evidence for the application of rational scientific thought. Nor does it justify the emergence of a new religion based upon only this unverifiable testimony. The explanation of the very real UFO phenomenon will ultimately depend upon sufficient acceptable scientific evidence and not upon declared adherence to a religious belief. Thanks to: J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO Studies Dr. Mark Rodeghier, Chairman, Phone: 773-271-3611/ Email: Infocenter@cufos.org/ Website: www.cufos.org Mutual UFO network International Director John R. Schuessler, M.S., Phone: 303-932-7709/ Email: mufonhq@aol.com/ Website: www.mufon.org Fund for UFO Research Don Berliner, Chairman, Phone: 703-684- 6032/ Email: rofuf@konsulting.com/ Website: www.fufor.com Editor's Note: So far the Cloneaid laboratory has failed to present evidence of successful cloning of a baby as claimed. The Clonaid founder Claude Vorilhon is leader of a sect called the Raelians. He claims a space alien visited him in 1973, revealed that life on Earth was created scientifically through DNA and genetic engineering by an extraterrestrial race called the Elohim. It is evident they have received hundreds of millions or dollars worth of publicity due to the cloning announcement. MAINE UFO WAS COMPLETELY SILENT AND VERY BIG HOLDEN -- The witnesses were leaving a New Years Party and were driving on Route 46 when they noticed two lights in the sky about a mile away that seemed stationary. The witness says, "I kept driving very slowly and trying to see them above the trees, and three miles down the road I spotted a large flying triangle coming toward us a couple hundred feet up." My girl friend saw it fly over our vehicle without any noise at all. It had green, pink, and yellow flashing lights and flew from east to west. I later talked to someone where I volunteer at the veterans clinic and her brother had seen it also. Since, then I have had some strange mental images and missing minutes. I also have a place on my stomach that the skin is very dry and nothing helps to get rid of it. I have talked to my veterans counselor about the incident. Thanks to bmj and Peter Davenport NUFORC NEW YORK THREE FLYING TRIANGULAR OBJECTS ALBANY -- The witnesses report going for a short night time stroll at 10 PM, on January 8, 2003, when one noticed a light out of the corner of his eye and looked up to see three flying triangular objects with a number of lights on each corner. The witness told his friends to look up and tell them, he was not losing his mind. Their mouths dropped as they also saw the three triangles. No one spoke; no one knew what to say or how to explain what they were seeing. Then the objects disappeared out of sight and it was like they had never even been there. We continued walking in silence not knowing what to say. I never believed in any of this until now! Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC PENNSYLVANIA DIAMOND OVAL SHAPED OBJECT PITTSBURGH -- The witness was walking to the local Drug store on January 7, 2003, when he looked in the sky and saw a huge diamond shape craft. It was going across the sky extremely fast at 11:00 PM. The sighting lasted for a minute, then it was gone MIDDLESEX TOWNSHIP -- I was walking on the Appalachian Trail on January 7, 2003, with my dog around 5 PM, and my dog started to bark. I noticed an extremely bright light where my dog was barking. I ran towards my dog who was about 50 yards away and I noticed an oval shaped object lifting higher into the sky. By the time I caught up to my dog the oval shaped object was hovering around 100 feet above us. It moved back and forth for a few minutes, then zipped out of sight. I have never seen anything like this in my life. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC MARYLAND SPHERE STRANGE BRIGHT LIGHTS WESTMINSTER -- The witness was walking his two dogs on January 4, 2003, and noticed a bright object in the sky over her neighbor's house and assumed it was a shooting star at 8:50 PM. The object was moving from west to east at a steady pace. Then behind this object appeared three additional bright white light objects that would be the size of an egg held at arm's length. The light from these objects was as if it was revolving. There was no color, just white light. Then there were two other groups of the objects that appeared out of the western sky and flew east out of my sight. No sound was made. The witness states, "They seemed to be about 1500 feet high, they were close, and I counted fifteen objects, and their flight pattern seemed to be in a straight line." I live two miles from the Westminster Airport and I'm used to seeing all types of flying craft, but at 46 years of age I've never seen anything like this before. I called my husband, who is a police officer for the state of Maryland and he tried to contact the local airport at 9 PM, but it was closed. We watched the news to see if anyone else reported the lights in the sky, but to no avail. NUFORC VIRGINIA CIGAR SHAPED UFO AFFECTS CAR FALLS CHURCH -- The witness reports, "I was going home from work on January 11, 2003, with a few associates and my car just stalled at one of the stop signs." I was surprised as it was a new car. I stepped out of the car to look in the hood and I saw a flash of light reflected from my car. I looked up and I saw this long lighted flying thing, which was there for a few seconds and then disappeared. I did not think much of the sighting, but when it disappeared my car started by itself, without turning the keys in the ignition. NUFORC NORTH CAROLINA TRIANGLE WITH PHOTOS AND VIDEO CHARLOTTE -- I was coming home from my girlfriend's house around 7 PM, on January 6, 2003. I came up my road (there's a hill on my street) and I saw a triangular formation of three extremely bright, round lights up in the sky. They were about 200 feet up and a mile or so away. I jumped out of my car, ran in to tell my mother and she ran out and we both stood in our back yard staring at the lights. They hovered in the sky without moving for about two minutes and the lower "UFO" in the triangle drifted up and to the right towards one of the other "UFO's." Once it got close, the upper right "UFO" flew off out of sight at incredible speed. The "UFO" on the other side did the same shortly after that. One UFO was left hovering in the sky, with its bright light kind of twinkling. The single UFO light came on and went off and on for the next hour. It flew random zigzag floating actions in the sky. My father came home later that night and saw it too. He said, "Oh my God, I thought you guys were joking!" - The weird thing is that it was so windy that night, and the entire sky had a sort of pale amber tint to it. Our gate in the back yard kept slamming shut and my Mom told me that earlier in the day she had heard a very loud noise around where the lights were coming from. Also the pets were acting weird. The objects were not moving at all times, so they were definitely not airplanes. They were close enough to us, that if they were helicopters we would have definitely heard them. Plus, any type of aircraft I've ever seen is not capable of disappearing out of sight at the speed these did. Very spooky, something strange is definitely going on. We have pictures and video. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC GEORGIA BEACON LIGHT IN SKY MUFONGA's Olivia Newton of Lilburn reported that a family member living in Dekalb County had reported a spectacular light observed on December 4, at about 10:15 PM. The witness described an extremely brilliant white light traveling horizontally at about 20 degrees off of the horizon. It was completely silent, and was the size of a baseball at arm's length. This witness is particularly observant and reliable; a retired law enforcement official of the State Game and Fish Commission. LAGRANGE -- On January 4, 2003, MUFONGA's reliable source was outside for about two minutes at 7:00 PM, and observed another unusual "beacon" type of light in the sky. Rather than being stationary, it was moving east, and was blinking off and on at about ten-second intervals. She described it as a sort of "slow-glow" type of illumination. The light would come on slowly, then fade out slowly at ten-second intervals. Again, this witness was raised in an aviation family and indicates that what she has been observing is unlike any normal aircraft lights with which she is familiar. Past interaction with this source has revealed that she is VERY objective. MUFON's Tom Sheets says, "I was standing with John Thompson next to a field in the boonies near Lagrange a few weeks before our Leonids Skywatch. We were comparing the appearance of distant aircraft landing lights when a REAL MONSTER rock slid in and burned up right overhead. Truly awesome, nothing during all of our Leonids activities even compared. As to the 5 Jan Lagrange "slow-glow" lights, I can recall nothing similar in my sky watching, which includes living and working around Hartsfield Airport for many years. We have to consider several factors that might influence any night observations of lights or meteors...the atmospheric conditions both low and high, humidity, haze, pollution, the eyesight of the witness etc. At any rate, it's difficult to make any firm determination on unusual events occurring in darkness, far away, silent, and oft times happening very quick. On January 8, 2003, indicates that Senior White House reporter Sarah McClendon, 92 years old, passed away. Ms. Sarah served in the White House press corps beginning during the tenure of FDR (!) and continuing right up through her recent illness. She was a friend to the UFO community, and a few years ago was solidly behind efforts to get the UFO issue before Congress. I still use one of her positive articles in the orientation of new MUFONGA members who have never had deep exposure to Ufology. Thanks to Tom Sheets Georgia Director of MUFON. Editor's Note: I spent several hours with Sarah, she was a wonderful lady and I for one will miss her. FLORIDA DAYLIGHT SIGHTING OF DOMED CRAFT WINTER SPRINGS -- While standing in my backyard on January 11, 2003, with a friend, I spotted a bright object coming from the southwest at 12:10 PM. It was very high up and moving in a slow, straight line and faded into the east. I asked my friend to have a look and we watched the object for 5 minutes. With binoculars, the object was somewhat flat on the bottom and domed on top. Not like pictures of flying saucers that I've seen. The top was domed like half of a circle. The object seemed compact in shape, not long and stretched out like an airplane. The object was a very strange shade of green, kind of lime colored, and never changed it's brightness. It was almost as if the brightness was a light and not necessarily the color of the object. It was VERY bright. ALABAMA EGG UFO CAUSES BATTERY FAILURE MOUNDVILLE -- Two egg shaped objects with lights were observed moving in a 'Z' pattern on January 6, 2003, by several witnesses. The witness stated, "The batteries and lights on our vehicle stopped when two egg shaped objects approached us. We were in the Talladega National Forest when two egg shaped objects about the size of the tops of trees were observed. When the lights flashed it illuminated the sky and the whole area. The lights were red, yellow, and blue. They moved left and right and up and down sort of in a Z shape. When we approached the lights and battery needle stopped in our vehicle. One object came about 50 yards from our vehicle, then it immediately left. This object was spotted off and on for over an hour. MINNESOTA DISK CHANGES COLORS WINNEBAGO -- At about 8:30 AM, on January 2, 2003, my husband noted a bright light in the sky and told my 15 year old foster son and I, "Come and look at the UFO." Not really believing him, we looked thinking he was foolish. We saw at first a bright light and then as we watched, it began to change colors in a circler motion. We saw a disk shape craft with lights that circled around the craft changing colors from white, to red, green, and blue. It hovered for the longest time and then began to come a little closer. I got the binoculars and looked and I could see it was in a disk shape or like what you would see in the television shows. The coolest part was that we were able to see what appeared to be windows all along the top half of the craft. The UFO stayed around for an hour and a half. My 21 year old daughter and I saw it again the next night. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC IOWA HOVERING OBJECT WITH LIGHTS AURELIA -- Julie W. reports, "I was driving home from work at 8:10 PM, on January 2, 2003, and I noticed a bright object in the northeast sky and noticed that there were red, green and white lights on the object that was not moving. It was at that time that I noticed another hovering object exactly like the other one to the southeast. Then I noticed an airplane above the object on my left, and that made it very evident that what I was watching was just sitting there. I got within a half mile from Aurelia, and tried to call my husband but, the phone was busy. When I got home I told him what I had seen and that I had tried to call, he said he hadn't been on the phone. Also, my computer was really having problems--my connection is through a satellite. I had a similar experience several years ago in NW Iowa, only there were many more UFOs, and my children and I witnessed a one only a couple of hundred feet away. Thanks to John Hoppe, Director UFOWisconsin, http://www.ufowisconsin.com MISSOURI LIGHTS MOVE IN UNBELIEVABLE FORMATIONS BLUE SPRINGS -- The witness reports, "My girlfriend and I observed a bright flashing light in the sky on January 1, 2003, with the colors changing from white to red to green in that sequence." The object hovered in one spot for 30 seconds and then began to move in random directions. While moving, the object would change it's rate of speed constantly and then stopped suddenly. It was higher than any helicopter could fly and made sharp movements that airplane could not. It also moved in a small circular motion followed by a slightly larger circle. Another object had the same light pattern on it and moved in the same formations as the original almost as if the two where communicating. I stopped watching at 6:30 AM. I hadn't had anything to drink. Thanks to Peter Davenport KANSAS DISKS PHOTOGRAPHED WICHITA -- Matt Hitt phoned to tell me he was at the local mall on January 8, 2003, when he noticed a disk shaped craft flying over the area. He went into the local drug store and purchased a camera and film and started photographing at 5:20 PM. His taking photos of the sky caused a crowd to form and look at the UFOs flying overhead. An Air Force Captain dressed in uniform was amazed to see the disks. He pointed and said, "That's not a plane!" He claimed he was a pilot and had never seen UFOs or anything like that. Their were heavy contrails high in the sky and the UFOs were flying around below the contrails. Matt called me immediately after the sighting and seemed quite excited. Thanks to Matt Hitt OKLAHOMA GRAY CIGAR UFO HOVERING OVER FIELDS ENID TO TULSA -- The witness was driving back from Enid on January 2, 2003, when he saw a silver/black cigar like object far away past the hills at 4:30 PM. It rocked slowly back and forth like a leaf falling, but not falling. After two minutes it was gone, leaving no trail, no fast bang, or light. COLORADO UNIDENTIFIED TEARDROP SHAPED OBJECT PAYTON -- The witness reports seeing an unidentified object that looked like a flying teardrop and was circling around the sky at 7:37 PM, for about five minutes on January 1, 2003. The craft flew back and fourth in a straight line. The craft was a metallic silver and had one florescent light. There were planes in the area, but the lights on these planes blinked, while this did not blink and moved at a comparatively slow pace. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC CALIFORNIA PILOT SPOTS FLYING TRIANGLES SAN JOSE -- Near dusk at 5:20 PM, a private pilot saw two black, triangles hovering in a very slow flight pattern on January 1, 2003. The sky was still bright blue and these triangles did not fly like our planes or birds. The witness said, "I watched for ten minutes as they headed from the east to the west and then slowly, back toward the west again." They moved progressively closer together, and appeared to be about 45,000 feet altitude. Several jumbo jets passed underneath at 15-20,000 feet during my observation. The flying triangles were clearly not flying like the planes, nor did they look anything like any kinds of planes I have ever seen. I am a private pilot and quite familiar with the flight patterns in this area. I have also observed many birds of prey such as hawks and eagles and these craft were not like any bird. This is the first time I have ever observed anything like this. I have always been extremely skeptical about UFO's and have not really thought they were anything but mistaken identities. However, these objects were clearly some kind of object that I could not identify. SPRING VALLEY -- My family and I were sitting in the back yard about twenty-five minutes after midnight right after the New Year's started. We were all talking, when I saw a bright orange reddish light coming from the north; I told every one, "Do you guys see that?" It was very bright and flying very slow. When it got closer, the lights started to dim and then they would get bright again, then it started to go west very slow almost to a stop. It started to drop something we could not figure out what it was. Then it started to go west and we could see spinning lights, and finally the light turned off. BURBANK -- My wife and I are musicians we were retiring home on January 1, 2003, and were unloading our equipment. I had asked my son (age 15) and his friend to help me unload our truck I glanced to look up for Orion and immediately noticed six moving stars that I didn't recognize. They were orangish yellow in color and in a pattern like thin #4. I called to my son, his friend and my wife. The craft was traveling in northwest and very high (could've been 100-200 miles). We all noticed that they began to turn southwest. The turn was abrupt and they formed another pattern similar to the Big Dipper. They continued to extend starting to form a single line and then one by one seemed to shoot straight up out of sight. I did also notice that one or two seemed to have smaller lights shooting out from them before they disappeared. BURBANK -- On New Year's Eve my family went outside to bang some pots and pans and shoot off our party poppers at our friends home. During the celebration I looked up at a very clear sky and noticed two orange/red orbs glowing and moving very slow across the sky. One was in front of the other. The orbs were traveling west and sparks or fire of some sort, like a sparkler trailed off from the fireball. The shapes took a turn and started heading north and they both burned out within five seconds of each other. My sister and I had seen some five weeks ago heading east across the sky. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC ITALIAN SIGHTINGS IN 2002 WILL SET NEW RECORD ITALIAN UFO NEWSFLASH 381--The Italian Center for UFO Studies (Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici, CISU) reports, "The drop in reports in the month of December notwithstanding, 2002 went out as a record-setting year, for sightings and reports of UFO phenomena in Italy." As of this writing, in fact, the number of cases histories gathered and filed by the Italian Center for UFO Studies (CISU) totals 724 for last year, compared with the 796 which made the preceding 2001 one of the richest periods of the last 24 years. It is expected that in the coming months -- as usual -- the total of cases for 2002 will grow to surpass that of 2001, which at this point a year ago saw "only" 630 cases. This result is, in part, due to the always-increasing efficiency of the CISU telematic working group on the Italian caselog, which by now is fully operational and manages to systematically monitor the reports gathered from every available source. The month-by-month distribution of Italian sightings for 2002 was less spotty than that for 2001, which was much more centered around a summer flap. Lombardy and Emilia-Romagna turned out to be the richest regions for reports, followed by Veneto and Tuscany; and the usual prevalence of Northern Italy was confirmed, with 56% of the observations. More detailed information is on the CISU Website at www.cisu.org Thanks to Giorgio Abraini LEBANON DISKS BEIRUT -- On January 3, 2003, two unidentified objects were seen over Beirut at 8:23 PM. Each craft was different. One was saucer shaped and the other was like an oval and there was much light surrounding each of them. The craft were visible for fifteen minutes. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC SOUTH AFRICA THE CRAFT FOLLOWED A SATELLITE PORT ELIZABETH -- From south westerly direction towards the south easterly direction crossing the path off the satellite four times and then vanished on January 1, 2003, a stream off exhaust fumes could be seen behind the craft. ((NUFORC Note: Witness describes self as having significant technical experience. PD)) AUSTRALIA THREE SPHERES SIGHTED SYDNEY -- In the suburbs directly west of Central Business District on January 13, 2003. Dominika went outside to move the garden sprinkler at 11:10 PM. She looked up and saw three spheres below the clouds east of us and called out to me. I joined her outside, it was apparent that this was not normal air traffic. They glowed orange red, made no sound and traveled very slowly west. The first sphere was larger and maintained a steady speed and luminosity. The other two stopped occasionally and dimmed and brightened, then continued. They took a couple of minutes to get about 10 km west of us then faded and disappeared. They were several times larger than airplanes. Normal air traffic was absent for another half hour after. Thanks to Paul Van Komen iridium188@today.com.au. http://www.today.com.au PRIEST GIVES HIS OPINION I thought about your statement of "messengers" and I am very familiar with the thought of superior technology from two or three thousand years ago. We always look at things as though we have a "lock" on technology -- as if there cannot be another civilization in the Universe which exceeds us in knowledge. The complicated part of accepting "technically superior messengers" doing God's work is that you then have to think about God and the role played by this Supreme Architect of the Universe! This frightens people -- and more so, It really frightens the church! Those that are in charge of "protecting" the sacredness of the church (bishops), shut their minds when it comes to the possibilities of ET's and higher level beings. Unfortunately, the thought of anything other than what we can see and touch in the here and now is too much for many people, so we have to deal with (be tolerant of) the denial by the church and the masses that follow dogmatic teaching! One of these days it will all be revealed without question . . . unfortunately, there will still be those that will not accept it! So, we just keep going on, collecting the evidence, and living our lives as best we can! Actually, when you get right down to it, it's all we can do, no matter what the circumstances! Have a great day -- will keep in touch? Father. T AIDS INFECTION CAUSED BY CHIMPANZEE The origin of the main HIV virus that causes Aids in humans has been discovered by an international team of scientists. A chimpanzee named Marilyn enabled them to confirm that the Aids virus first passed into people from a particular subspecies of chimp in the Central African rainforest. Infected chimps do not get sick or develop Aids and therefore may hold a possible cure for the disease. WHAT YOU SHOULD KNOW WHEN HIRING A REAL ESTATE AGENT! Learn how you can obtain the best real estate agent for your needs. To get a free copy of this report e-mail me at Majorstar@aol.com SHOP AT THE MALL WITHOUT WALLS WITH 100 STORES There is a store for your every special need, and you qualify as a preferred customer by reading these files. Register as a Preferred Customer and pick the store of your choice for special discounts. Health and Nutrition Store carries the wonderful Isotonix OPC-3 products. You can use visa or Master charge at:. www.filer.unfranchise.com MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative reports subscribe to the MUFON JOURNAL. A MUFON membership includes the Journal and costs only $35.00 per year. To join MUFON or to report a UFO go to http://www.mufon.com/. To ask questions contact MUFONHQ@aol.com or HQ@mufon.com. Mention that I recommended you for membership. Filer's Files is copyrighted 2003 by George A. Filer, all rights reserved. Readers may post the complete files on their Web Sites if they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue that the item appeared. These reports and comments are not necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON viewpoint. Send your letters to Majorstar@aol.com. Sending mail automatically grants permission for us to publish and use your name. Please state if you wish to keep your name, address, or story confidential. CAUTION, MOST OF THESE ARE INITIAL REPORTS AND REQUIRE FURTHER INVESTIGATION. Regards, George A. Filer www.Georgefiler.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 15 Fighting The Fear Factor From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 16:02:06 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 16:02:06 -0500 Subject: Fighting The Fear Factor http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=3D/c/a/2003/01/12/CM200763.DTL Fighting The Fear Factor Local scientists are quietly working to give UFO sightings a measured look and lend legitimacy to those who spot them Rick Del Vecchio It was a routine flight from San Francisco to Boston. The DC-10 was on autopilot, with World War II combat veteran Neil Daniels in the captain's seat. Suddenly, the jumbo jet veered to the left. Daniels looked out the window and saw something odd over the winter cloud tops. He -didn't recognize it, and 25 years later, the Los Altos resident still -can't figure out what it was. "There was this brilliant, brilliant light, the intensity of a flashbulb," Daniels said. It was round, like a quarter held at arm's length. As ground control asked for a report on the unplanned swerve, Daniels' first officer took the controls. The plane resumed course and the floater shot away at a slight upward angle. "It upset the compasses on the airplane, so it was a magnetic force of some intensity," Daniels said. It was, by any other name, a UFO. Few pilots in those days dared say they saw one. That unidentified flying objects were unmentionable was all but national policy. The attitude came out of America's Cold War fears and deep-down pragmatism: If it's not square, it must be kooky. Daniels' boss discouraged him from reporting the bogie. The two other members of the flight crew clammed up. Daniels had survived 29 bombing missions over Germany and would log 30,000 hours in his flying career. He'd seen a lot, but nothing like this. He soon found he -wasn't alone. Other pilots tipped him that they, too, had crossed paths with a UFO. There were so many stories like his that Daniels wondered who was hiding what - and why. "There's been an enormous coverup," he said. Now the retired pilot is playing a small role in a national effort to end America's UFO-phobia. The story of his 1977 encounter south of Syracuse, N.Y., has made its way into the case files of a sober-sided research panel called the National Aviation Reporting Center on Anomalous Phenomena. Headed by former NASA scientist Richard Haines of Los Altos, the year-old group is one of several private organizations saying that UFOs deserve a measured, scientific look. With research helpers around the country, it's a confidential sounding board for professionals in the taboo-bound aviation field. Haines' focus is on helping flight and ground crews safely handle something many have experienced but few have talked about. "Everybody's so God-darned afraid of everything," Daniels said. Wingless, noiseless, metallic-looking or luminous curiosities have been reported to interact with aircraft since Daniels flew B-17s over Germany. In their 60-year modern career, they've paced planes in level flight and in turns and dives, hovering, zigzagging, bouncing, pulsing, zooming and otherwise upending the rules of flying. Haines has clocked the average length of plane-oddity contact at nearly six minutes. "How does science rationally deal with a phenomenon that stays with an airliner at high altitude (and) at high speed for 20 minutes?" he asked. "It automatically eliminates a long list of mundane phenomena." Haines' group has collected 1,300 pilot reports and is gathering more from government and private sources in many countries. "This is kind of snowballing," said Ted Roe of Vallejo, the group's executive director. "First off, we're learning that the phenomenon is distributed globally." Witnesses, often quite shaken up, note the unknowns' outlandish speed and agility in solo and formation flight. Something with the reflexes of a bird of prey double-swiped a French Mirage fighter at right angles over Dijon in 1977. During the encounter, the pilot felt he was being "watched." Observers also are impressed by UFOs' geometric shapes, which are unlike any known airfoil. And their lighting schemes make no aviation sense: blinding whites, glowing greens and oranges, multicolored flashers like haywire Christmas trees. "During the day, they are solid, three-dimensional surfaces that reflect sunlight," Haines said. "Eighty percent of the nighttime sightings are self-luminous. My personal belief is they are the same set of phenomena." They act as if they're looking for something, but -don't communicate. They intimidate, but only in the movies do they annihilate. "When shot at," Haines said, "the phenomenon - doesn't shoot back." They are so furtive as to appear self-disguising behind all manner of plasmoid morphings, vanishings and high-speed acrobatics. It would appear they -don't want any trouble. But for science, they've been nothing but. Opening the scientific mind It's all a magic show of the mind, most scientists tend to think. Few have ventured in. But Haines is attracted because he believes a conservative approach can gain on the mystery. A former NASA behavioral scientist who worked on manned moon missions and later helped design aircraft cockpit displays, he has published more than 70 journal articles in his specialty. He prides himself on his caution. Haines is interested in mundane meteorological, geological and astronomical origins, apart from the more far-out possibilities popularly associated with UFOs. Opinion polls show that almost half the American public believes they're from outer space. Haines and allied researchers are investigating the elusive and possibly electrical "blue sprites" pilots see in the upper atmosphere, the links between floating lights and sacred sites and whether incoming meteors can be seen on radar. Haines stands apart from the UFO culture and even from the acronym itself. He instead likes UAP, for unidentified aerial phenomenon. The coinage is picking up currency: Scientists and aviation experts adopted the acronym for a November conference at George Washington University in Washington, D.C., on aerial mysteries and interstellar travel. "(Haines') approach is an end-run," said Minneapolis documentary filmmaker Tom Tulien, whose Project Sign gathers oral histories of pilots and military servicemen who have encountered UFOs. "It defuses the issue as most people understand it," he said. "We're not interested in proving UFOs are real - we're interested in the implications of the phenomenon." Haines is among the elves in a worldwide circle of aerial mystery puzzlers that stretches as far away as public research groups in Chile, Norway and Turkey, and as close as America's zipper-mouthed government and science establishments. Part of what keeps the effort going is its silent partnership with insiders who want to help science without hurting their good names. "Science is so close-minded that they're unwilling to look at the evidence," said Haines, relaxed in retirement in his Sunset magazine=D0neat Peninsula ranch house. Some have the same complaint about UFO believers, who tend to focus more on theories than on evidence. "The battle lines are drawn," said UFO historian Jan Aldrich of Canterbury, Conn., whose Project 1947 is archiving the UFO story in America. "It's E.T., or it's stupid." Despite strange marks and burns on the ground, radiation traces, skyfalls of magnesium, tin and tungsten carbide, and a handful of genuine photos of unknown metallic-looking flying objects, physical proof of UFOs as non-human handiwork -doesn't exist. This is a given, except to those who hold that the government has the story and is sitting on it. But stripping out more than 99.9 percent of the reported cases still leaves a richly bizarre one every few years. Studies in other fields have gone on less. With UFOs, researchers say, there is more. "The fact of the matter is, there does exist a vast amount of high quality, albeit enigmatic, data," Redwood City astronomer Bernard Haisch states in introducing himself to visitors to a Web site he has created, Ufoskeptic.org. He is also one of Haines' top associates in the aerial mystery group. Much of the data rests on witness reports, and that presents a problem: The senses are easily fooled. The stranger the sensation, the harder the brain tries to make sense of it. But there are at least a few dozen records with enough witness credibility and narrative detail to impress Haines and his league that some fraction of the UFO mystery is physically real. A 1999 French think-tank study put the number of "remarkable, that is to say, credible, well-documented cases" worldwide in recent decades in the hundreds. "Underneath it all, the truth is there," Roe said, "but you have to be very discriminating." Making it clear for the everyman UFOs -aren't just a problem for hard science. The mystery, it seems, is too complicated for it to be understood from any one angle to see it whole. "I'd be willing to entertain the possibility that the UFO phenomenon is real and may be a manifestation of something more profound than visits from another planet," Haisch said. Society should take a long look from many sides without being in a hurry for answers - "in the same way astronomical observations were made for centuries without being able to make sense of things," he said. One of today's more patient sky watchers is scientist Erling P. Strand. He works with Norway's Project Hessdalen, which observes strange, varied lights that glide about the Hessdalen Valley. He said there are so many shapes and varieties that it's hard to believe only one source is involved: species of round, oval, bullet-shaped and cylindrical lights, some lasting microseconds, others staying for hours. "The cylinders are sometimes horizontal, sometimes vertical," Strand said. "These cigar-shaped lights do not always have light all over the surface. Sometimes they are described as with a black area in the middle. "This black phenomena has mostly a yellow light in both ends," he said, "but they can also be seen with two yellow lights in one end and a red in front. The shape then is more triangular." There are blue lights, too. "And sometimes," Strand said, "there are several different colors at the same time." Some researchers say what's needed is not only good evidence but also a different way to look at reality. Space -isn't empty, it's made of energy. Mass, motion, gravity - all side effects. What seems solid, -isn't. Then it would be the universe that's strange, not any form that fizzles in and out of the narrow band of human perception. Hindu tradition says reality is multi-layered. It's an idea obsessed over by popularizers like "Twilight Zone" TV series creator Rod Serling and author Philip K. Dick, who spent part of his career in Berkeley. Now, science says this could well describe the way things really are. Science also speculates that the light-speed limit can be evaded by distorting space-time, and a NASA group in Cleveland is looking at whether the theory makes sense. One physicist says the technology needed to capture the power to achieve "warp" speed is up to a million years off, if it ever happens. But today's technology is getting its hands on power sources considered exotic not long ago. For example, the U.S. military is reportedly ready to unleash microwave beam weapons in the next war. Microwaves, detected in some observations of UFOs, can disrupt electronic gear and some say they may do the same to human perception. More powerful electromagnetic weapons are under study. Some would agitate the air enough to create a ray-gun glow that would vary in color with the amount of power used. "I think there is incontrovertible proof that such high energy is involved" in unidentified aerial phenomena, Haines said. "The next question is whether or not it is directly related to the objects' propulsion system or whether it's a secondary effect." Encouraging reporting Haines -doesn't have to know the answers to know that the phenomenon affects people in a real way. He wants to see international aviation reporting standards, because he says encounters not only upset crews but also instruments and could, in rare cases, cause accidents. The 1999 French study offered similar advice. Haines has found 57 cases, including Daniels', where aircraft instruments were affected during an encounter. Pilots have experienced spinning compasses and dead radios in addition to intense light and heat in the cockpit. "The authorities could acknowledge that they -don't know everything," he said. "The second thing is, let's at least be open-minded enough about it to encourage pilots to report what they are seeing. They're not even doing that." Case in point: the 757 and the flying cigar. "It's that Roswell crap again," is what the ground controller told a nearby Air Force base after the pilot of a commercial flight spotted a UFO over New Mexico in March 1995. Silhouetted by lightning against distant clouds, it was a spindle at least 300 feet long. It had strobing lights in an unfamiliar pattern. The operator called the military's air-defense network: "It's right out of 'The X-Files.' I mean, it's definitely a UFO or something like that. But. I mean =C9" Told of the object's size, the air-defense spotter said, "Holy smokes!" And the flashing cigar sailed off into the night, the watchers none the wiser. The sighting took place over an area known for its secret military reservations and Native American mysticism. It's also a historic UFO hotspot, with two reputed crashes and a landing on the books. For Roe, the cigar remains on record as a classic UFO in its appearance and in the human response it provoked: an unknown solid, wingless object that transfixed a half-dozen people, all trained professionals. "You watch that mouse freeze when it looks at a hawk - it's that's same vibe," he said. "I have a lot of empathy for humans who are dealing with this." Roe, in a written analysis of the event, did not lay blame but concluded that the stigma surrounding the subject created a barrier to communication. "It is remarkable," he wrote. Roe concluded "that a radar/visual observation of a flying object lacking a transponder code and larger than any known fixed-wing aircraft, twice the length of a 747 and hurtling through controlled U.S. air space at 390 knots, would be managed so casually." Back to the beginning The modern UFO era began in 1943 with pilot sightings of aircraft-pacing lights over Europe during World War II. It broke open in 1947 with the first civilian reports of "flying saucers." The last major outbreak was in the early 1970s, but enough activity still goes on to keep private reporting organizations busy. The National UFO Reporting Center lists more than 50 cases from Northern California in the last year, which go on top of a worldwide stack of tens of thousands since 1947. In May 2001, a music teacher in Fair Oaks, outside Sacramento, and three students were driving home from an outing when they saw something metallic and triangular over a tree, according to an unverified NUFORC report. It took off in a frightful manner. "One of the kids started to cry and become hysterical, yelling out, 'Go, go!'=CA" the teacher reported. "I turned my eyes and hit the throttle. All three cried out, almost shrieking, because the craft had shot straight up in the sky and disappeared." Long before aliens, abductions and Area 51, there were airships and "aeronauts." In pre-aviation 1896 and 1897, sightings of one or more Jules Verne-like flying vehicles made news from coast to coast. They played brilliant white lights over Sacramento on Nov. 18, 1896, and over Oakland five days later. Some said they whizzed around at an amazing 60 mph. UFO apparitions have changed over the ages. In biblical and medieval times, people wrote of aerial dragons, shields, swords and crosses. In Victorian days, they saw mechanical contraptions. Fifty years ago, the skies were full of saucers. In the present age of stealth, the archetypal form is, like the latest high-tech military planes, triangular. But one thing about the mystery -hasn't changed: the tendency to belittle witnesses. "Policemen Ring for the Wagon" ... "Probably Due to Liquor" ... "Invented by Unsuccessful Candidate for Lieutenant Governor," Northern California newspapers hooted amid the aerial excitement of 1896. Today, the scoffers are more sour than ever. They're put off by a ballooning culture of government conspiracies, various races of extraterrestrials and - Steven Spielberg's latest big-budget entertainment subject - human "abductions." Their godfather is Francis Bacon, the Renaissance scholar who used deductive reasoning to crush superstition. Three hundred years ago, he retold the Greek fable of Ixion to underline his point. Ixion wants Juno, the goddess of power, but copulates instead with a cloud, begetting centaurs and chimera. "Whosoever shall entertain high and vaporous imaginations, instead of laborious and sober inquiry of truth," he said, "shall beget hopes and beliefs of strange and impossible shapes." In 2003, the ominous Planet X, sunken cities, Martian monuments, surgery to remove alien implants, portents from the Mayan calendar, what Neil Armstrong saw in a crater on the moon in 1969 are just some of the topics whirling about. Any and all could fill out the program of a weekend at a UFO conference, and the tickets -aren't cheap. Jim Giglio says the phenomenon is best understood by looking at its reflection in the culture. "I -don't think there's anything to it," said Giglio, a former science teacher who belongs to a skeptics' group in the Washington, D.C., area. "And this is from a guy who's seen a UFO." He was visiting his grandpa's turkey ranch in the South when the gobblers for some strange reason looked skyward. Giglio looked up, too, and saw strange lights that moved overhead for several minutes. He noticed that the turkeys tracked the lights by turning their heads in unison. This was odd, but it never occurred to Giglio that they and he had seen a flying saucer. Because the term -hadn't been invented yet. It's commonly believed not only that UFOs are vehicles from space but also that their secrets have been known to establishment information-controllers for decades. The gatekeepers have locked away the truth, motivated by a desire to keep the power structure intact or by a twisted patriotism: The public -couldn't handle the shock. Congress must investigate, say groups such as the Disclosure Project and the Extraterrestrial Political Action Committee, both based in Maryland but with followings in California. They are taking up a cause championed in the 1960s by a University of Arizona astronomer who challenged the establishment. It's possible Earth is being watched by aliens, the astronomer, James E. McDonald, told a congressional subcommittee in 1968. He also charged that "the scientific community has been seriously misinformed for 20 years." That same year, the government-sanctioned Condon Report found only a relative handful of UFO encounters to be unexplained and none of the 701 worth more bother. Case closed, said the skeptics. McDonald, who had looked into 300 cases on his own, lost his fight to change the system from the inside. But his disciples would partially vindicate him. They got declassified records showing that the government maintained a low-key watch on UFOs long after officially closing the book. They said the authorities had good reason to be keenly interested, if there was anything to the reports of such witnesses as Robert Salas. Salas, a former Air Force captain, told of strange predawn events on March 17, 1967, in his underground nuclear missile post at Montana's Malmstrom Air Force Base. A topside guard, "practically screaming," phoned Salas with strange news: a glowing red object was hovering over the main gate. Salas called the command post. "As I was talking, the missiles starting shutting down," the Los Angeles resident said in an interview. Salas, sworn to secrecy and knowing the ICBMs were designed so that a serial crash was all but impossible, could only speculate. "The thing wanted to shut us down to show that it could," said Salas, a prime witness in the Disclosure Project's push for congressional hearings. Salas' opinion is controversial. His credibility -isn't. "Bob Salas is solid as solid can be," filmmaker Tulien said. Salas said he is prepared to round up multiple witnesses to back him up. He "defies anybody" to shoot down his story. But he - hasn't been invited to put his account on the official record, and most people think the politics of UFOs probably -won't allow that to happen. The government's official silence could mean only that the authorities are as much in the dark as anyone, though few Americans believe this. It could mean they -don't know enough to end the debate. But one thing is clear: the rare U.S. and British official inquiries over the years haven't solved a thing. More sightings to ponder What Graham Bethune saw was flying. It was a saucer. And it was headed straight for him. In 1951, he was a Navy flier on a mission off Newfoundland when he saw a yellowish light hovering over the North Atlantic. It looked like the glow of a city. Then it rose. In a split second it closed 15 miles to become a 300-foot-wide oval on a crash course with his patrol plane. "It made this run at us," said Bethune, 80, who lives in Toms River, N.J. Bethune plunged the plane as the oval went over his wing. Compass needles spun. The crew hit the deck. "The navigator busted his head," he said. "There was quite a lot of excitement, I can tell you that." Then the oval suddenly braked and reversed like a rebounding ball. UFOs have performed some of their most striking displays around military aircraft. In 1973, a National Guard pilot plunged his helicopter over Ohio to avoid a streaking object he felt was "coming to take us out." It stopped dead in front of the chopper, a gray metallic submarine shape with a dome and weird, bright lights, reminding a crewman of something out of a cartoon. In Belgium in 1990, a flying triangle accelerated from 174 to 1,118 mph and dropped nearly a mile in altitude when pursuing F- 16s made radar contact with it. The time of the maneuver was one second. A brilliantly lit cylinder north of Tehran discharged a smaller object at a pursuing fighter in 1976. The pilot tried to shoot but the weapons controls of his American-made F-4 went dead, a detail that concerned the U.S. military. The pilot banked to get away. The object tagged along on the inside of his turn. Then it broke off and rejoined the cylinder. The Tehran tube was so bright that the pilot had to delay his landing because he was temporarily blinded. It also strobed all colors at a phenomenal rate. Photos of such close encounters are rare. But in 1988, the pilot of a private plane pacing a glider over Palm Springs chanced to click his shutter the moment a fast-moving metallic sphere sliced through the sky beyond the sailplane. Haines has studied the image in detail. The pilot described the object as a "shiny ball bearing." In the photo, it's concealed in mist. The image shows a white contrail behind a round but indistinct head. The trail -doesn't reflect sunlight as a stream of water vapor would. The head sports tiny tendrils of white light at right angles to the direction of travel. Both details are odd, but conclusive of nothing. "It does not appear to be a lifting body, like an airplane," Haines said. "The reason being, it was a sphere. I had to do some research on the aerodynamics of spheres. But the problem with spheres is there's as much lift on the top as there is on the bottom, so the net effect is gravity. "This did not come down," he said. "It continued to fly out of sight with a straight contrail." Haines estimated the chrome globe's speed at from 857 to 4,000 mph. No one reported hearing a sonic boom. Haines has taken his investigation as far as he can. "I -don't know if science could take it any further," he said. Kenju Terauchi was sure he had met up with an advanced technology high in the sky. Piloting a Japan Air Lines 747 cargo flight near Fairbanks in November 1986, he saw two unknown objects the size of smaller airliners but with structural details, lights and maneuvers he - didn't recognize. In the middle distance of a clear night, he also saw the outline of a ringed orb he described as the size of two aircraft carriers. The sight worried him. Radar in the plane and on the ground saw something in the area of the strange outline, which paced the 747 at a fixed distance. Terauchi circled. The object stayed in formation. After another airliner pulled up to take a look, Terauchi signaled with his landing lights and saw the object blink out. The FAA announced that the radar blips were shadows from the 747. But the explanation was inconsistent with the data, said John Callahan, the FAA accident investigator who led the analysis of the radar records. Callahan, now retired, recalled that the blips indicated the presence of an unknown object that was too fast for radar to get a steady fix on it. "It was something moving 2,000 to 3,000 miles an hour, or faster," he said. He said the military radar records in the case were recycled before FAA investigators could review them, and the CIA took over the investigation. "The CIA guy says, 'OK, you're all sworn to secrecy. This event never happened, we were never here, and we're confiscating all the data,' " Callahan said. He said he asked the agent what he thought the pilot saw. "'It's a UFO. We -can't tell the American public we're being visited by UFOs. It would scare the hell of out 'em.' " E-mail Rick DelVecchio at rdelvecchio@sfchronicle.com.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 15 CCCRN News: 'Star Dreams' Film Premiere In From: Paul Anderson <psa@look.ca> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 11:53:15 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 16:50:00 -0500 Subject: CCCRN News: 'Star Dreams' Film Premiere In CCCRN NEWS The E-News Service of the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada January 15, 2003 _____________________________ 'Star Dreams' Film Premiere in Vancouver A Feature Documentary Exploring the Mystery of the Crop Circles, by Award Winning Producer/Director Robert L. Nichol February 1, 2003 HR MacMillan Space Centre, Vancouver, BC http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada/events.html also... New Crop Circle Videos, 21st Century Clothing and Farming Trivia Two new videos are now available through the CCCRN web site, 'Crop Circles: Quest for Truth' (2002) by William Gazecki/OpenEdge Media (at special reduced prices for DVD or VHS Video for CCCRN News readers) and 'Mystery on the Prairies: the Crop Circle Phenomenon in Canada' by Lost Arts Media (2002), the CCCRN lecture from the Signs of Destiny conference in Tempe, Arizona. Also a line of beautiful 'Twenty-First Century T-Shirts' with crop circle designs available from Tracey Gendron's Ilsa Designs in Victoria, BC (who is also a new CCCRN field research assistant), in various styles, sizes and colours for both men and women. And 'Western Canadian Farm Trivia Challenge' (2002) by Parkland Publishing; while not dealing primarily with crop circles, this is a great little trivia book for those interested in farming and agriculture in general in Canada, and includes a page on CCCRN and the Canadian crop circles. http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada/merchandise.html The 'Star Dreams' video will also be available shortly. ____________________________ Want more? Subscribe to The Prairie Circular, the quarterly print newsletter of CCCRN and keep informed with the latest news, updates, articles, reviews and complete crop circle coverage from the Canadian prairies and across the country... only from CCCRN! http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada/theprairiecircular.html ____________________________ CCCRN News is the e-news service of the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, providing e-mail updates with the latest news and reports on the crop circle phenomenon in Canada, as well as other information on CCCRN-related projects and events, sent free to your e-mail. To subscribe, send an e-mail with Subscribe CCCRN News in the subject line to: cccrnnews@look.ca The Canadian Crop Circle Research Network is a non-profit research organization which has been investigating and documenting the crop circle phenomenon and other possibly related phenomena in Canada since 1995, creating a liason between researchers, farmers, the public, the media and scientists in trying to solve this ongoing enigma. Main Office 202 - 325 East 14th Avenue Vancouver, BC V5T 2M9 Canada Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522 Cell: 604.727.1454 E-Mail: cccrn@look.ca Web: http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada =A9 Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, 2003
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 15 Re: An Abduction Checklist - Tonnies From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 12:56:30 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 16:55:13 -0500 Subject: Re: An Abduction Checklist - Tonnies >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 01:52:27 EST >Subject: Re: An Abduction Checklist >>From: Michael Harman <rocketman5047@yahoo.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 08:01:34 -0800 (PST) >>Subject: An Abduction Checklist ><snip> >>4. Is the world going to end in 2006? Read "The Bible Code II >>The Countdown" In it you'll find several very clear >Bible Codes for THE END OF THE WORLD... Can we change this >outcome? Are >these 3,000 year old codes imbedded in the Hebrew >text accurate, or they simply chance? >So what I want to know is when 2006 comes and goes and the end >of the world doesn't happen, can we dismiss the Bible Code books >as a load of garbage? Much like the alleged and supposed Planet >X drival published by Hazelwood, or the earlier claims about ET >mass landings to happen in the desert SW on April 24th 1997, or >ET landings on a desert mountaintop in Dec of 2000. Here's a hint regarding the validity of the "Bible Codes": you can get similar 'prophetic' messages by applying the Bible Codes technique to 'Moby Dick'. And maybe this is just me, but isn't the oft-used term "the end of the world" just a bit vague (and egotistical)? What, exactly, is meant by "world"? What constitutes an "end"? From a quantum perspective, the world ends and begins again upon the act of observation. Prophecy-mongers are also really big on 'World War III'. Just how awful do things have to get before it's 'officially' a World War? There's slaughter all over the planet. Surely this justifies use of the term "war" in a global context? "The End of the World" is one of the mythological products that Colin Bennett has tried to explain on this List. In this case, the product is being marketed by publishers eager to exploit the target audience's latent disasterbation fantasies. ===== Mac Tonnies macbot@yahoo.com Transcelestial Ontology, Theoretical Ufology and Postmillennial Studies http://www.mactonnies.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 15 Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? - From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 13:05:45 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 16:57:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? - >From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 05:54:18 -0800 >Subject: Re: Alien Life: Would We Recognize It At All? <snip> >I just wanted to interject one comment here in this discussion. >Scientists such as Kaku will discuss hypothetical aliens and >hypothetical alien civilizations and extrapolate hypothetical >energy requirements, but will not deal with real aliens who >accomplish real interstellar travel and have solved the problem >whether we can conjecture as to how it was done or not. >Unless Kaku and others want to discuss real flying saucers, >then we are carrying out a discourse on two different levels. There is indeed an important distinction. But this distinction only matters if UFOs are indeed alien spacecraft from other star systems. Do we know this? I think that while some UFOs are certainly real, unknown, and under intelligent control, leaping to an extrasolar explanation is too rash. Modern cosmology is revealing quantum-level weirdness all the time; once-nebulous concepts like "parallel universes" are beginning to seem a little less bizarre. Our visitors may not have the technology from get to star to star, but they may have the technology to 'tune into' multiple universes. ===== Mac Tonnies macbot@yahoo.com Transcelestial Ontology, Theoretical Ufology and Postmillennial Studies http://www.mactonnies.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 15 Re: An Abduction Checklist - Jones From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 21:09:44 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 17:09:43 -0500 Subject: Re: An Abduction Checklist - Jones >From: Michael Harman <rocketman5047@yahoo.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 08:01:34 -0800 (PST) >Subject: An Abduction Checklist >Abduction Checklist Evening Michael, I must admit to having real problems with this List. I don't want to upset many people on this List so I won't respond item by item, but I don't doubt that many criticism's would raise the heckles of many, and start raging flame wars. And for me the List raises more doubts than ever about the validity of the abduction phenomenon then it (I suppose) is to _resolve_ if more than half were true. Regards Sean -- In an infinite universe, infinitely anything is possible. Sean Jones http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 15 Re: Levengood Credentials - Talbot From: Nancy Talbott <bltresearch@attbi.com> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 01:07:43 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 16:15:08 -0500 Subject: Re: Levengood Credentials - Talbot [Non-subscriber Post] >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 20:50:54 -0700 >Subject: Re: Levengood Credentials >>From: Dave Haith <visions@ntlworld.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 01:51:40 -0000 >>Subject: Levengood Credentials >>Following the correspondence below on UFO UpDates from Jim >>Spieser (JJS) I emailed Nancy Talbott of the BLT Research Team >>about Levengood and the controversy. >>I reproduce her letter of reply to me below in its entirety with >>her full permission in the hope that it will clarify this matter >>once and for all. >Dear List: >If I may be permitted to cross-post a response to this issue >from Jim Delton, a colleague of mine here in Arizona (with his >permission)... I respond with the words of others because I >myself profess ignorance of the ways of the higher-ly educated, >being only an AGND (Ain't Got No Degree). >==JJS== >----------- >It just keeps getting stranger. In the snippet from JS's recent >UpDate, reproduced below, it appears Levengood claimed that >National Academy of Sciences only allows PhD's (or equivalents) >to present papers at the NAS. >That's news to me since I know several people who are not PhDs >or "equivalents" that have in the past and will this coming >January present papers at an NAS event, the annual >Transportation Research Board meeting. >I, a lowly BSE, am even a co-author of a peer-reviewed paper to >be presented there (someone else is presenting it). The TRB does >not require authors or presenters to have a PhD or "equivalent". >You can see their home page here: >http://nationalacademies.org/trb/ >and note that it is one of the many sub areas of the dozens and >dozens of areas covered by the NAS umbrella organization. >Levengood may well have presented a paper at meeting of one of >the many NAS sub-areas but I don't believe his claim that they >only allowed him to do so because of some alleged "PhD >equivalent" status is true. <snip> Jim..... My remarks regarding Levengood's credentials, posted on the internet by Dave Haith, were taken from Levengood's reply to my queries about this years ago, and contains all the information I have on the subject. Levengood and I have not been in touch for nearly two years now and I've got other things to attend to. Think perhaps you might have also? Nancy Talbott
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 15 Re: An Abduction Checklist - Tonnies From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 13:24:08 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 17:17:17 -0500 Subject: Re: An Abduction Checklist - Tonnies >From: Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <ufomiami@prodigy.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 08:10:17 -0800 >Subject: Re: An Abduction Checklist <snip> >There are ebes, like the one known as the "Gray", that with >their abduction programs, manipulating our consciousness >throughout the world, are violating our freedom of thought and >conscience. These entities, whatever they are and whatever they >come from, in one way or the other, are altering our free will. >Also, they have not prevent wars (World War I and II, Korea, >Vietnam, etc.) and maybe now with Iraq. And this is regarded as evidence that the aliens (if they indeed exist as you have depicted them) are malevolent? Could it be that by not meddling in terrestrial territorial conflicts they are allowing our species to confront necessary challenges? With angelic aliens constantly saving us from ourselves, we would become utterly dependant on their charity and would hardly be the sort of species with the forethought and technological savvy to move off-planet. >They have not prevent >nuclear explosions (Hiroshima, Nagasaki, underground >tests, even in the Pacific Ocean). In Charlton Heston's immortal words, "Damn them all to hell!" And yes, I'm being very sarcastic. Again, you want celestial saviors to unburden us from the technological traps we have set for ourselves and apparently little interest in seeing through the eyes of the aliens you profess to understand so keenly. >Neither have they avoided ecological >problem (oil spills in the sea, loss of our fauna >etc.). There is not a positive act in which they have >demonstrated what they profess. Therefore, we call >them liars. Their purpose is to manipulate our conscience, >through encounters and abductions and, at the same time, >with the knowledge of the danger that cause the outgrowth >of the "Ufology Archetype". These entities are a real danger >to our conscience. The truth is far, far scarier: _We_ are our own worst danger to our conscience. ===== Mac Tonnies macbot@yahoo.com Transcelestial Ontology, Theoretical Ufology and Postmillennial Studies http://www.mactonnies.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 15 Re: An Abduction Checklist - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 21:23:18 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 17:18:54 -0500 Subject: Re: An Abduction Checklist - Hall >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 01:52:27 EST >Subject: Re: An Abduction Checklist >>From: Michael Harman <rocketman5047@yahoo.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 08:01:34 -0800 (PST) >>Subject: An Abduction Checklist >>4. Is the world going to end in 2006? Read "The Bible Code II >>The Countdown" In it you'll find several very clear Bible Codes >>for THE END OF THE WORLD... Can we change this outcome? Are >>these 3,000 year old codes imbedded in the Hebrew text accurate, >>or they simply chance? >>5. More Bible Codes: "ATOMIC HOLOCAUST IN 2006", "WORLD WAR >>2006"," END OF DAYS TERRORISM PLAGUE", NEW YORK IN 2004 FROM >THE >>FIRE OF A MISSILE"," ETOMIC ATACK CHEMICAL ATTACK", "THE NEXT >>TERRORIST ATOMIC", "WAR OF BUSH"," G.W. BUSH PRESIDENT IN THE >>END OF DAYS"..Quotes are from the book Get it today.... "The >>Bible Code II The Countdown" By Drosnin >So what I want to know is when 2006 comes and goes and the end >of the world doesn't happen, can we dismiss the Bible Code books >as a load of garbage? Much like the alleged and supposed Planet >X drival published by Hazelwood, or the earlier claims about ET >mass landings to happen in the desert SW on April 24th 1997, or >ET landings on a desert mountaintop in Dec of 2000. >Cheers, >Robert Robert, You don't understand the rules of prophecy. When it doesn't happen, then the prophets say that God intervened, there was a slight misinterpretation of the code and it will happen next year, or etc. The book "When Prophecy Fails" is instructive in these matters. I once had a visitor at NICAP who claimed she could communicate with aliens by mental telepathy and without fail they would appear in the sky at her request. There was an expanse of sky visible from my office window, so I pointed to it and said go ahead. Well, guess what? "The vibes weren't right." If I had simply scoffed and acted hostile, she would no doubt have said that it was me creating the negative vibes. But all I did was call her bluff in a polite fashion. Guess the aliens had business elsewhere. - Dick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 15 Secrecy News -- 01/15/03 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 16:21:43 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 17:22:16 -0500 Subject: Secrecy News -- 01/15/03 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2003, Issue No. 6 January 15, 2003 ** COURT IMPOSES PRISON TERM FOR LEAKING ** SENATORS FUME OVER PENTAGON STRYKER DECISION ** IN CONGRESS ** REHNQUIST ON FOIA (1969) COURT IMPOSES PRISON TERM FOR LEAKING An employee of the Drug Enforcement Administration has been convicted of theft of government property for leaking confidential but unclassified government information to the London Times. A federal district judge in Atlanta sentenced Jonathan Randel to a one-year prison sentence for the offense. See "DEA Employee Gets Prison Term for Leaking to Reporter," by R. Robin McDonald, Fulton County Daily Report, January 15: http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1042568651135 "The judge's sentence on this man is monstrous," said Alastair Brett, legal adviser to the London Times, quoted in the London Guardian. "Journalists talk to all sorts of people like MI5, MI6, Customs, and we don't expect them to be banged up for it. We did pay money to Mr. Randel but it was a research fee." The prosecuting attorney in the case said that the action was consistent with the recent recommendations of Attorney General Ashcroft's task force on unauthorized disclosures (of classified information) that called for aggressive action to stem leaks. That task force report may be found here: http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/dojleaks.html SENATORS FUME OVER PENTAGON STRYKER DECISION In another eruption of Congressional anger at Pentagon high- handedness, two Senators wrote to Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz last week to complain about his unilateral action to restructure the Stryker combat brigade program. "Mr. Secretary, your action on the Stryker brigades is yet another disregard of the Congress, and existing law, by the senior leadership of the Defense Department," wrote Senator Daniel Inouye and Senator Ted Stevens of the Senate Appropriations Committee on January 6. "In this post 9-11 world, the Congress and Executive Branch need to be able to work together in an atmosphere of trust and cooperation. We find your repeated actions, from the initial recommendations on the Unified Command Plan, to the cancellation of the Crusader Progam, and now this action on the Stryker brigades, demonstrate an unwillingness by the Defense Department leadership to work with congress in a partnership," they wrote. See: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2003/01/stryker.html IN CONGRESS Sen. Jon Corzine reintroduced the Chemical Security Act of 2003, intended to increase the security of thousands of industrial facilities that use toxic chemicals. Among other things, the bill would exempt certain information on site vulnerabilities from disclosure under the Freedom of Information Act. "I don't take FOIA exemptions lightly," Sen. Corzine said. "I believe strongly that, in general, the public has a right to information collected by the government. But I think it's pretty obvious that in the case of the information that would be submitted to the government under this bill, the vulnerability assessments and response plans, we simply can't allow the security details in these plans to be publicly available." See: http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/2003/s157.html Sen. Pat Roberts, the incoming chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, spoke out January 14 in defense of the bipartisan character of the Committee staff, even though a sharper division into majority and minority staffs might superficially serve the interests of his own party. "I think any proposal to split the committee or increase the numbers of strictly partisan staff would represent a break with tradition," he said. "I think it would not be in the best interests of the committee, of the Senate, or of our national security." See: http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2003_cr/s011403.html REHNQUIST ON FOIA (1969) When Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist was Assistant Attorney General in 1969, he co-authored what may have been the first Justice Department policy guidance on Freedom of Information Act policy. He urged greater agency consultation with the Justice Department so as to minimize the likelihood that the government would lose FOIA lawsuits. "Although the legal basis for denying a particular request under the [Freedom of Information] Act may seem quite strong to an agency at the time it elects finally to refuse access to the requested records, the justification may appear considerably less strong when later viewed, in the context of adversary litigation, from the detached perspective of a court and from the standpoint of the broad public policy of the Act." The Rehnquist memo, which is merely a curiosity that has no binding effect today, may be found here: http://www.fas.org/sgp/foia/rehnquist.html Even in the past, the Justice Department has rarely declined to defend an agency's denial of a FOIA request. But under the October 2001 Ashcroft memorandum on FOIA policy, which is the latest in a series of successors to the Rehnquist memo, the Department virtually promises to defend any denial of a FOIA request, no matter how absurd the agency position may be. Have Justice Department attorneys lost all sense of reality? No, a Department official told Secrecy News. Any such criticism reflects "a lack of understanding of the nature and timing of the process by which the Department of Justice might ultimately refuse to defend a client agency, not to mention the rarity of such a step overall." _______________________________________________ Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org with "subscribe" in the body of the message. OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html _______________________ Steven Aftergood Project on Government Secrecy Federation of American Scientists web: www.fas.org/sgp/index.html email: saftergood@fas.org voice: (202) 454-4691
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 15 Re: Fighting The Fear Factor - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 21:42:47 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 17:24:25 -0500 Subject: Re: Fighting The Fear Factor - Hall >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >To: <- UFO UpDates Subscribers -> >Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 16:02:54 -0500 >Subject: UFO UpDate: Fighting The Fear Factor >Source: The San Francisco Chronicle >http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2003/01/12/CM200763.DTL >Fighting The Fear Factor <snip> An excellent article, and further proof of the power of the ridicule factor, whose existence John Rimmer and others deny. I have encountered strong evidence of it over and over during my close to 50 years of UFO research and investigation. I can only conclude that those who deny it must not have done very much investigation or research. The documented testimony about it is overwhelming. - Dick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 16 SDI's Leslie Kean Interview From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 08:54:18 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 08:54:18 -0500 Subject: SDI's Leslie Kean Interview http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/sdi/program/ as are links to her recent articles and reports. ebk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 16 Dolan Article Marginality & Taboo From: George Hansen <gphansen2001@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 17:25:55 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 09:26:33 -0500 Subject: Dolan Article Marginality & Taboo Richard Dolan prepared a provocative essay entitled 'Clonegate and the Media'. It is on his website at: http://keyholepublishing.com/clonegate_and_the_media.htm I printed out the essay in less than two pages, and within that short space I found nine comments emphasizing the marginality of UFOs (listed in Appendix below). The marginality of UFOs should be cause for wonder, for as Dolan demonstrates, the antagonism is truly extreme. But all ufologists know this. The marginality is so pervasive that it must be considered part of the UFO phenomena, and any comprehensive theory of UFOs must accommodate it. Marginalization is enforced not only by establishment science but also by a variety of Fundamenatalist religious groups. How odd. Why would science and fundamentalism be allies? Theories in anthropology directly deal with the topic of marginality and the closely associated concept of "liminality." I urge ufologists to become aware of that work. Peter Rogerson discussed liminality in his article "Taken to the Limits" in Magonia No. 23, July 1986. Few others seem to have recognized the importance of the concept. Marginality and liminality are directly tied to stigma and taboo. In fact, taboo is intimately associated with the sacred and supernatural (aka, paranormal). UFOs are inherently liminal; they have a betwixt and between aspect (traveling between the heavens and the earth). This class of phenomena, and even the theorizing about them, is typically shunned and tabooed. This makes them all the more fascinating. Appendix List of quotations from Dolan's short article that demonstrate the marginality of the UFO topic 1. yeah, I know, none of us are really legitimate 2. We're marginalized enough for what we actually believe 3. he was embarrassed. Embarrassed big time 4. How intensely terrified the mainstream is of even the most indirect relationship with UFO phenomena. 5. 'Clonegate' shows us the rigid social constraints within which members of the dominant culture must operate 6. His "reputation was at stake." 7. Applebaum stated that "people should not be allowed to graduate from college - or to conduct television interviews - unless they feel intuitive skepticism about a group whose leader has close personal ties to little green men from outer space." 8. Condon said that "publishers or teachers who teach any of the pseudo-sciences as truth should, on being found guilty, be publicly horsewhipped." 9. Guillen got scared and bailed out. In salvaging his reputation, he left unanswered an important scientific question. ===== The Trickster and the Paranormal http://www.tricksterbook.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 16 Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer - McCoy From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 21:49:34 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 09:36:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer - McCoy >From: Grant Cameron <presidentialufo@presidency.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 20:58:54 -0500 >Subject: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer >A weird one! >Read the bizarre story and see pictures of the "pole deer" found >in Manitoba, Canada, and the "tree deer" found in New York >State. Hello all, First, I know a bit about trains, the deer carcass found on the utility pole wasn't thrown up by being hit by a Train, unless the train was going, say, 60-70 mph. and at that speed it would've been reduced to a large, bloody, splat. The 'tree deer' could've been easily a preditor kill, bear or lion. Seen'em - chickens to calves - no problem. My Gramma McCoy shot a sheep-killing (sorry, the following is a bit Pythonesque) bear out of a tree in her front yard. Trouble was to deal with the 70lb. ewe that was now very dead at about 50ft. up in the tree. The ewe was up there for about 3 days and was getting ripe in the Eastern Oregon, May sun. The problem, alive or very, indesputably, dead, a sheep in the tree is not good, as the probabilty of falling at an inappropriate time (likely on a observing grandchild) wasn't desrieable. Well, this being about the time that hydraulic Cherry Pickers were introduced to utility companies and municipal/county services, the 'calvary' arrived in the person of one Sven 'Spud' (think because he was shaped like one) Olleson, who was the local Power Co. rep. He rigged a rope around the seriously dead ewe and lowered her to the ground. It was up to Gramma and my Uncle Ellis to bury it. Trouble was it wasn't her ewe. nobody ever reported one missing - a mystery ewe. As far as the 'Pole Deer' it could be a gag by a bored track or utility crew, revetsing the efforts of Mr. Olleson in the above. GT McCoy "Not all who wander are lost."-JRR Tolkien
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 16 Re: Corso - Bennett From: Colin Bennett <sharkley@panzerben.fsworld.co.uk> Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 08:22:43 -0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 09:41:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Bennett >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 09:11:49 -0700 >Subject: Re: Corso - Speiser Morning all! This the last post on Corso, I promise. >I predict that a hundred years from now, every literate man's >bookshelf will sag under the weight of volumes from Colin >Bennett, replete with florid prose, postmodern Truths about >Universe, Self, & Consciousness, and knowing references to >Ancient Foreign Guys, from the maestro of schlockspiel himself. >They will be considered classics of literature and their praises >sung from the halls of Oxford to the Plains of San Agustin. They >will be de rigeur for beginning students of Postmodern >Deconstruction. Wonderful, sir! Thankyou for this magical review and appreciation You have told the truth, and have a prophetic vision of history. What you have described so well is indeed going to happen. The only mistake you have made concerns the time this will all take to come about. Judging by the private correspondence I have received, it will be a matter of two, rather than a hundred years. But I must say again sir, as distinct from some I could mention, you have given us a real piece of writing here, full of imagination, energy, and brimful of images and humour. This is the way to the heart of that profound modern social comedy that is Ufology. But sir, may I relay a question my American wife has just asked? She wants to know, for the sake of transatlantic relations, who are the splendid "Ancient Foreign Guys" you refer to? The trouble is most of the Maoist ledger-clerks and Stalinist garage-hands, and dead pseudo-pelicans of "scientific" Ufology will of course hate you from now on for the bourgeois affectations you have demonstrated in using imagery and wit and imagination instead of bits from the bottom of a sick parrot's cage to demonstrate a point. I say again -- your whole piece is welcome as distinct from the depressingly amateur dead-pan prose one encounters in Ufological writing, most of which resembles the cracked tarmac on an old deserted CarMart. >However, at that same centennial, the factual, objective, final >truth regarding the nature of the UFO enigma will be contained >in The UFO Evidence, Vol. 5, Copyright 2097 by Dick Hall. There seems to be the impression that I hate Dick and his book. Nothing could be further from the truth. His book was a landmark, a great piece of work, but it is now as out of date as a garage manual for a De Lorean, and say compared with Keel's The Mothman Prophecies (Keel by the way, wrote the Foreword to my Politics of the Imagination) it reads like a mail order catalogue for souls in Purgatory. But perhaps to arouse such nostalgia for the infinite is no mean achievement. Dick is resisting change, and that is about all there is to any conflict between us. He is a believer, and so am I. I advise Dick to fall in love with a river goddess or suchlike for his next book and give us all a break from this Stalinist Science as Authority factspeil, which is enough to make any child of Nature reach for her gun. So keep this up, young Jim Speiser, and one day you might approach the quality of mine own Looking for Orthon and Politics of the Imagination. Both these books of mine are a perfect antidote to the books of the DDDD (know as the 4-D mob or Dreadful Dead Document Donkeys), and have been acknowledged as such by Mac Tonnies previously on this very List, which must have pleased the empirical souls no end: >>In a world of books about anomalies, very seldom does one come >>across a title that is, itself, an anomaly in its aptitude and >>outspokenness. Colin Bennett's 'Politics of the Imagination', a >>heady examination of the life, work, and ideas of paranormal >>heavyweight Charles Fort, is a rich and singular book in which >>Bennett's postmodern sensibilities are brought to bear on one of >>the 20th century's most radical thinkers. >>Fort, an intellectual outcast who viewed science as so much >>socio-mythological advertising, has become synonymous with the >>unexplained. Bennett argues that "Fortean" phenomena such as >>UFOs, inexplicable artifacts, and falls of live fish reveal >>cracks in the buttresses of Big Science's illusory (and ever- >>fashionable) rationalism. >>Bennett, like Fort, views reality itself as an anomaly to be >>held in constant question; 'explanations', if available at all, >>are only a superficial means of understanding. Bennett grabs >>hold of the enigma that is Fort's iconoclasm and doesn't let go. >>Summoning a mass of scientific and literary esoterica, he writes >>with impeccable wit, pursuing his quarry with impressive >>dexterity. >>'Politics of the Imagination' is a high-calorie intellectual >>banquet of a book: challenging, learned, and incredibly fun. As >>long as Bennett is writing, Western empiricism can run, but it >>can't hide. With a foreword by John Keel, author of "The Mothman >>Prophecies." Buy now, if you want the thrill of a lifetime and avoid the eunuchs and castrators and tunnel-vision of the mechanicals such as Mr. Kimball: >>>If you're looking for adjectives to describe those who are the >>>opposite of Corso, try this one on for size: honest. All of us would like to get back to home cooking and the village life Mr. Kimball, but our home-brew honesty was lost with our innocence after Watergate and Vietnam. The screens came down in the 1960s, didn't you know that? Authority is Big Science as General Groves of Los Alamos put it, and Authority, like Science, lies, lies, and lies again and again. Like media, it cannot give information. It is not designed to do that. The military-industrial-complex sir, can do little else but lie to further its agendas. If you don't believe that, go down to the beach and look at the oil. Then look at our political agenda. As metaphor, the two are the same. That's the postmodern view. >>>Good Lord. With 'thinking' like this, is it any wonder the sun >>>set on the British Empire? This is yet another anti-British remark, several of which I have had to tolerate on this List. The first was made by Dear Dick's dearly departed friend (RIP). I could of course in turn call you Americans Beavis and Butthead or Bart Simpson South Park pop- culture morons with a TV set instead of a head on your shoulders, people who can't take a word of more than one syllable, and whose sentence-length and concentration is just about that of the morning TV kiddy-toons. But I will not because I have bad news for you all. I am about to become an American. My first bite of genuine hamburger (as distinct from the crap they sell here in the Old Curiosity Shop) will be dedicated to Mr. Loptaka in anticipation of his second question to this List. Since his very first question about Corso has littered the stage with dead and injured, not to mention a notable complete disappearance, and another fallen to nervous flustered swearing at me. I look forward to Mr Loptaka's next question in fear and trembling. Meanwhile, Mr. Hall weighs in: >>>>Well, I suppose if one does not care about facts and truth one >>>>can view what you call "Literature" - any of it including >>>>garbage like Corso's book - as entertaining and amusing, while >>>>you scoff at people who disagree with this rather strange >>>>outlook on life that ignores factual matters. Can you send me >>>>one of those magic "post-modern" wands that I can wave to make >>>>serious questions go away? You do not understand postmodernism. It is a philosophy, a way of describing and interpreting the world. One would no more expect it to change things in the sense that you talk about than you can expect a nudist party to get to the White House. You seem to equate postmodernism with the occult, probably through being influenced by incomprehensible French writers on postmodernism that do not know what they are talking about. Postmodernism is a way of seeing things and indeed experiences as texts, that is as expressive elements in shapes, smells and sounds are expressive forms of language communication It is all very simple. Everything speaks a language. Do you have difficulty in understanding that, Dick? Do you not accept that a car or an aeroplane or the face of Dietrich is a profound language? Or is every woman's face identical to you? I cannot believe that. Do not different faces and objects and events and emotions not speak a different language to you? Of course they do. That's the postmodern experience. Thou art being most stubborn about all this, and I intend to try and change your thinking. Why? Because I think Dick Hall is worth the effort. I believe in thee. I think there is another book in thee sir, that's what I think. For once forget about research, the usual stuff that all the scores of po-faced plain Janes boast about to the boring ends of the boring earth. Any bright macaroon can do that kind of thing. They are typists and compilers, not writers. But you are special, Dick. Now what you have to do first is put down that latest Ufological manual written by the latest blushing factual-statistical hero to tread Warhol's fifteen- minute Ufological boards. Done that? Good. Now think about something that is precious to you in Ufology and let the trail talk to you. After that, you won't be so dismissive of people with visions. You are on the trail to replacing Myself-IT with myself-YOU. After that adjustment, all is possible. There Dick, that was not to hard, was it? You call Corso's book garbage. Yes, it is B-feature, certainly. But aren't B-features wonderful things? Aren't they the great art of our time? Don't they warn us of things? They have wires and components in them, which is more than you can say for straight art. No, it really doesn't matter whether a thing is garbage or not. Everything speaks a language, even your old arm chair in the postmodern sense will have its fifteen minutes of fame, as Warhol predicted. That is the postmodern view. I have just written two biographies and the first thing I did was get rid of the railway lines in my mind and think right out of the box. I am now working on Ruppelt, a book you will come to love. It won't be B-feature, but it will be postmodern in its view. The Stalinist Ufological Commissars and "scientific" researchers will gnash their factual teeth but they will soon get back to their anic-depressive nail-biting state of all dialecticians. Through this book you will come to love your postmodernism. I can guarantee that at least it won't be constructed on the lines of then this happened then that happened and then this happened, and see the statistics on page 42, and the forged UFO photograph on page 67, and the photograph of his mum on page 34, in the way of almost all Ufological manuals (I call few of them books). Charles Fort was the first to smash this way of linear analysis, and after him followed Barthes, and indeed Khun, whose idea of the paradigm reflects Fort's ideas almost completely. Now don't give your usual American reaction oh what a silly- billy this pompous Colin Bennett is with his long words and his difficult thoughts ect etc and frozen to death. And please do not give me the old Moseley clich=E9 about I was holding Candy Jones' hand when Colin Bennett was just out of his pram, for God's sake. And please do spare us the fifty years in Ufology bit, because the violins are getting on everybody's nerves. You been doing that to people for some time and it has to stop. Cut the music, come alive, do some thinking, answer the points properly, spit at me, kick in the goolies, do anything but say there that silly Colin Bennett again with all his long words and extended thoughts etc etc. What do I mean by all this? I mean that Dick Hall, you are not dead yet, and so open your eyes, get up off the floor throw away your walking stick, and tell the orchestra to go home. What does this mean with respect to Ufology? As distinct from postmodern treatment, the descriptive "evidence" techniques make Ufological books on the whole the great Books of the Dead of our time. They represent a Western process in which are piled tribal evidence games upon tribal avoidance games, the whole lot being lit up through the main-frames like a sacrificial bonfire any loin-cloth native would understand far better than we do. One of the reasons why Ufology is not generally accepted by the world is not because of little green men jokes but because of the sheer amateur crudity with which Ufology handles Life and Literature connections. Seeing Corso (and also Adamski, say) as frauds and liars is breathtaking intellectual naivety. They stand as rich and complex symbols of the progress of certain aspect of society, and note this: their frauds and lies reflect the lies of their society, and the frauds and lies of the people who investigate them, and the frauds and lies again of the investuagting apparatus. That's the postmodern view. The handling of the relationship between Corso the man and Corso the writer on this List is laughingly unsophisticated according the standards of the straight world. Ufology must do something about this, otherwise its blushing amateur psychological crudity will forever be open for all to see. But to ask the scientifically-oriented to analyse a book is like asking a warthog to swim the Atlantic. You all need lessons in this respect, so turn off that stupid American TV crap, and listen very carefully. First, this going for the gross physical truth of texts is a dangerous and rather unsophisticated way of investigating. Literary criticism in particular and artistic critical evaluations simply do not do this kind of thing. This is just one of the reasons why there is such prejudice against UFO books, and hardly a single one has yet to be properly reviewed by the so-called "quality" press, either in this country or America. Yes, I agree that most of such straight establishment reviewers are young fogies who are desperately pre-electric, and take a pride in not knowing anything about the modern world and technology, but that is beside the point. They do not review, period. This is because most Ufological thoughts and books are desperately unsophisticated, witness the screams about long words and sentences on this List. Nobody appears to have done any reading before 1960. What would Ufological investigators say about Picasso or Dali's distortions of what we term far too easily as reality? Would they say that the monstrously distorted shapes and figures in their landscapes were lies because they did not conform to the world outside their window? Such investigators in using the hilariously crude binary-conditioned options of fact and fiction miss out completely on the symbiotic relationship between Life and Literature, just as they miss out on the symbiotic relationship between the world and the terrible events of 9/11. Should anyone think that the world consists of Bad Man A doing nasty things to Good Man B and there is no subterranean symbolism underpinning such events, then they may deny the importance of postmodernism, yes, but in doing so they also ignore the importance of the Unconscious, which is a different and much serious matter altogether. When the inconceivable value to humanity of painters such as Picasso and Dali is considered, it is the very distortion of the world that teaches: they give us endless knowledge about ourselves, space and time, in other words by distorting the world we see the world in a new light. This is what Corso has done. Or is that thought too difficult for you? The Art world for instance can teach Ufology a lot in this respect. Every year without fail, at the Tate Gallery some young trendy spriglet puts, say, a pair of socks on a car door and mounts the car door on a hollow tree-trunk with a dead cat inside it. Call the result ecstacy, and the thing is bought for a lot of money. Now apart from a few cabbies in the popular press, the Art world doesn't go around calling him or her an imposter, a liar, or a person of inventions and falsehoods. This person has put together light and shade, seen new shapes and colours, made a collage of suggestions, moods, and memories. The thing is full of inspirations and guesses, unusual juxtapositions, and shapes of irrational connections and relationships between objects and insights. It is a very devil's brew of all those things that humanity should not see, should keep hidden, deny, and not tell about. In summer, 2002 in Britain there was a similar act to the of Corso. There was an exhibition of human body parts, and even a live TV programe showing a full public autopsy of a cadaver. Such a dynamo, bomb, mess, call it what you like, is what Corso has unwittingly created, and his disturbed shade might get great comfort from the thought that this kind of activity is known as artistic creativity. Ladies and gentlemen of the List will agree that this is without doubt, the single most important activity of humanity, although it may not look like it at the time! This superficial play element defines humanity, no more no less. No other creatures (except aliens perhaps) have it. It is in some mysterious way a moral thing that is vastly superior to dull old facts as a means of knowing. As any infant school teacher can tell us, play of course is the basis of all learning systems. Our first encounter with aliens may indeed be with an advanced form of play (they of course will keep their facts well hidden, if they have not evolved from such things), which is the basis of all intelligence, advanced or otherwise. This is why we must be careful. What we see might be not what we get. Adamski's Orthon and Howard Menger's Aura Reines for example, may have been super- dolls from worlds built purely of suggestion and advertisement- stuff. Yes, life may have evolved that far. Take old spanners and test-probes to this material, and they turn round and look at you like baffled dogs waiting for orders. That's our problem. The dogs can't deal with pure information. It has a scent, but they don't know it yet. They are used to looking for fat smelly old analogue plain lies, and they don't quite know what cool media and advertising suggestion-tricks and double-takes and confusions smell like yet. I think both Adamski and Corso were tricked and confused. I think that because the chances are that we may in turn be toyed with rather than instructed, still less informed. These are very important things to consider with respect to alien intelligence. Contact will certainly mean that we have to think right out of the box and right out of the box again and again. Could we possibly explain our own techno-social economic structure to a cargo-cult native priest when we do not know how such a structure works ourselves? No, of course not. We therefore tell them fairy stories about it. Extrapolate that situation, and I think we have just about got Corso and Adamski and Howard Menger in focus. One thing is certain: the desperately simple-minded input=3Doutput Stalinism that does not see this situation as meaningful will be the death of ufology. If we consider this idea of nonsense-play it might very well shed a lot of light on the absurdity of many alien encounters and also many claims such as that of Corso and Adamski again, claims which in the light of day make them both look both foolish and mendacious. Late photographs of both these men show them both drained. The return from Magonia is always experienced as a re-birthing. Corso and Adamski were not lying. They were confused by what had happened to them. The Greeks understood this progress of the different forms of the psychic life of the soul and imagination. If we are not careful, as practical Ufologists, this kind of significance will slip right through our thick garage fingers. The socks on top of the car door are an attempt to form a new grammar of soul and substance, no less. It is an attempt to regain innocence. Such a costless and silly absurdity is the beginning of a new initiation into cycles of birth and creation You take the blue pill. Or you take the red pill_ I tell Ufologists this here and now: these hopelessly crude evaluations of fact and fiction cut Ufology off from the more sophisticated straight cultural background. This must stop, otherwise parochial sneers alone at long words will make many Ufologists appear to the much bigger outer world as hapless fools with straw behind their ears. We must also do something about the blatant hypocrisies of "scientific" ufology. I asked Dear Richard to answer a simple question in one of my posts, and he did not answer it. I asked since Strieber's claims were almost as fantastic as those of Corso, why was he attacking Corso and not Streiber? There is none of your blessed factual objectivity here. This is because of the different packaging. That's a postmodern thought for you. Streiber is a cool customer, a good writer and excellent media man, and he punches like crazy. He has good insights, and he is a quick thinker. He is fast on his feet, and he is one of the two or three good writers in Ufology. He can write books that can be read, and he has an excellent organizing brain. I for one have no trouble in fully accepting the truth of his experiences. In contrast, attacking poor Corso is like shooting fish in a barrel, but are they any who would call the man who wrote the Foreword to Stanton Friedman's Top Secret Majic 12 a liar? Cowards! Come on, List members! And as Andy Roberts always says, don't avoid the question. Let's see how honest your objective factual scientific method is: who is going to get into the ring with Streiber because like Corso, he cannot provide "scientific" proof? Who is going to throw the first punch and call Streiber a liar? Answers, please! And have your wallets ready. You are going to need them. Come on boys, put on your scientific gloves and let's see your scientific mettle. Or are you chicken? Or are there some people science likes to investigate and put down as distinct from others they are very much afraid of? Colin (Bad Man) Bennett PS. I am now at work on a postmodern treatment of the Ramey memo, and will post this shortly. Stand by for fun. Book seats now!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 16 Rendlesham 2 From: Eric Morris <bufosc@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 22:23:38 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 10:02:04 -0500 Subject: Rendlesham 2 The British UFO Studies Centre had a 'full house' at the Waterloo Community Centre in Runcorn for their first lecture evening of 2003. Not content with an event far more important than the original Rendlesham Forest event, BUFOSC were able to explain a series of UFO sightings over Runcorn that currently had the UFO community in a frenzy. BUFOSC has received (and continue to do so) over 20 reports of UFOs over the general Runcorn area since December 28th 2002 to (up to) 11th December. A black,cylindrical object with wing appendages about the size of a small mini-car has been observed hovering over the Southern areas of Runcorn (Dutton and Preston on the Brook). This object had been observed by many workers at a local factory on January 3rd, with other reported sightings on December 28th, 29th, January 3rd, 5th,6th and 7th. Naturally BUFOSC is investigating whether British Aerospace are testing a RPV similar to the 'Dragon's Eye' which is now on active service with American servicemen out in the Gulf, preparing for war. BUFOSC Founder Eric Morris has been aware of this device for 2 years, and knows what it can do. It is able to fly within 2 minutes of simple assembly and send real time visual overhead images of areas to a ground force communications unit. BUFOSC believes Britain is testing a better version (ES) and where better to test than the North West coast?. Other nightime reports of a 'flying cross' have been reported to BUFOSC in the last two days over Widnes and Liverpool. Checks made at the John Lennon Airport report no aircraft over the area at the time of the reported sightings by a person with high powered binoculars. There were other reports of the 'Flying Cross' over Devon in 1967. The UFO sightings of 3rd January have already been investigated by the Ministry of Defence. BUFOSC sent a letter to them yesterday, to inform them of no other UFO sightings that day. Since Morris only reported the sighting to the MOD on 8th January 2003 it must be a record in time for a reply from them. Perhaps they are aware of Morris's ground breaking succesfull attempt in getting recoreds released about Rendlesham Forest. "Investigations by BUFOSC into these sightings, are being carried out at the highest level" said Morris. Morris also lectured yesterday on Rendlesham 2, a UFO crash one mile from RAF St Mawgan in 1985. Although this report has been in Morris's file since then he has only just released details as he feels the time is now right. The crash, which only Morris' Plymouth UFO Investigations Centre investigated, was observed by several witnesses. All made statements to PUFOIC at the time. Letters from RAF St Mawgan, the MOD and the Police all contradict each other as to what was going on at the base at the time. Morris then stunned the audience woith what has never been shown before - actual evidence of a UFO crash - some 50 photographs showing the site and several pieces of strange metal which Morris has had analysed by scientists (Not Henry Azadedhel/Armen Victorian, Dr N'Tumba, Julian Phillips, or Mr Scanlon to name a few pseudonym's!). The evidence was tested by metallurgists in Cheshire in 1989 and they say it is the most baffling piece of metal they have ever tested. Also the tree it crashed into and the ground which was also burned at a very high temperature were also shown to a shocked public. Morris and BUFOSC still hold all this evidence. Also, reports of secret military testing in the Whitecross area of Cornwall, a few miles from the base where PUFOIC discovered recently deposited strange aerials and antenna's which is believed to have been left by test engineers and scientists, after being tested by St Mawgan as an alternative to other radar means. A letter from the Police to PUFOIC confirmed the aerials were there. The building was mysteriously demolished and no evidence is left of the building except in the PUFOIC archive. Morris and a fellow investigator completed a programme on the case made by professional television crew in 1996, and some unusual incidents occured then. This video will be shown at the next BUFOSC meeting in Runcorn on February 11th, 2003. Need to say, the audience returned home shocked after seeing actual evidence of a UFO crash,letters to prove the incident occured and evidence to show the Ministry of Defence (and with the help of RAF Rudloe Manor acting as the 'Provost and Security Services') attempted to stifle PUFOIC's investigations into this case. They allege an incident and then confirmed an incident took place. If you wish any further similarities to the 'original' Rendlesham Case, the base was (then) a joint RAF/USAF military base at the time, with Britain (then) testing the American AWACS system which they purchased. Morris is now exposing this case to the UFO world of Britain and the Press. Some documents to this case mysteriously disappeared after a visit to Morris's house by an alleged CIA Agent working in Britain. A tape recording of this person demanding money for these documents return is in the hands of BUFOSC and will be exposed in February. If Fortean Times believed Ufology is dead they should have turned up last night, their headlines in March's FT would might have read 'Ufology is alive'. Strange that, I came accross a letter by Mark Pilkington to a Norfolk UFO investigator in BUFOSC's files only yesterday!!. All enquiries to this e mail should be made to BUFOSC. For any Press enquiries our telephone number is 01606 330567. We have all the ammunition for a front page headline 'UFO crashes in Cornwall'. With a difference, we have the evidence! Eric Morris 15.1.03
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 16 Re: Dolan Article Marginality & Taboo - Tonnies From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 06:41:58 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 10:09:25 -0500 Subject: Re: Dolan Article Marginality & Taboo - Tonnies >From: George Hansen <gphansen2001@yahoo.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 17:25:55 -0800 (PST) >Subject: Dolan Article Marginality & Taboo >Richard Dolan prepared a provocative essay entitled >'Clonegate >and the Media'. It is on his website at: http://keyholepublishing.com/clonegate_and_the_media.htm >I printed out the essay in less than two pages, and within that >short space I found nine comments emphasizing the marginality of >UFOs (listed in Appendix below). <snip> In a previous essay, Dolan points out just how far this marginality goes by pointing out the apparent lack of interst in the UFO that buzzed the D.C. area a while back. He notes that it's simply incredible that an event like this -- an unknown object eluding our best fighter jets in the vicinity of the Capitol in the post Sep. 11 era (!) -- could be virtually ignored. Yet it was. Dolan's book, while a history, is also a very astute look at the mechanics of the marginalization process. Mac UFO book reviews: http://www.mactonnies.com/ufobooks.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 16 Re: Corso - Roberts From: Andy Roberts <aj.roberts@blueyonder.co.uk> Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 17:14:28 -0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:38:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Roberts >From: Colin Bennett <sharkley@panzerben.fsworld.co.uk> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 08:22:43 -0000 >Subject: Re: Corso Pilgrims, I've refrained from commenting on Colin's, er, 'texts' of late because we came to a private cease fire. However, as my name was mentioned at the end of his latest missive I felt I had to comment. At first I thought it was another of his 'Combat Diaries' - too late realised it was a Wombat's Diary! It was felt among UK ufologists when Colin reared his head from kindergarten UFO class that he was some form of carefully constructed hoax - perhaps one of John Lunberg or Jim Schnabel's (he wasn't one of ours). Then we realised he wasn't and that he _actually_ means what he writes. Oooeeeoo as Ed Sanders used to say. Which, quite frankly, is why you'll find no sensible UK ufologist either replying to his quicksand texts or rising to his rather dull bait. We've all been around and been through this before in other guises. The names and the, ahem, 'philosophies' change but the message is all too clear: "I'm here, look at me, I've got ideas, I'm going to transform ufology". Dullsville. It's an annual show. Tim Matthews was the last one on stage. Georgina Bruni and Nick Pope have both been in the make up room but ran away when they saw the crowd. What happens to these people? Easy. They either realise the error of their ways and fade away or lurk bitterly on the edges of ufology, bemused why no-one takes them seriously (er, because they don't talk sense), amazed that their 'intellect' hasn't been recognised and they aren't being carried aloft along flower-strewn streets to Downing Street (er, because no-one essentially cares about their nonsense). Colin's a polite, well educated guy. He's obviously digested far too much Iain Sinclair in his time and probably thinks Derrida has something useful to say (he doesn't, I spent several days typeing up someone's PhD thesis on this). But he knows nothing about ufology I'm afraid. Or how to write - ability to use metaphor as metaphor, simile for it's own sake and big words to impress is a bit like some of the A level course work I've seen. Could do better! Don't see me after Klass. Those deluded souls who came out of the woodwork to announce him as the next best thing (Jerry Clarke, come on down) sem to be strangely missing in defending Colin against the massed outrage of American ufologists. Chill out dudes. It's an Emperor's New Clothes thang I'm afraid. Just sit back and watch the show while it lasts. Rather than actually comment on the turgid prose we've all had to suffer lately (and will ahve to do so for some time before Colin fades away) I pulled this out of his latest missive: >You do not understand postmodernism. Ahh, bless, 'they' always say we don't understand them. Have you listened to the Grateful Dead's 'Estimated Prophet' Colin? It's about you, "My time coming, any day" etc. > It is a philosophy, Really - we're clearly too stupid to understand that one and have to _told_! A philosophy eh? What will these clever guys think of next? > a way of describing and interpreting the world. And here's the nub. Yes PM is a philosophy - there are bloody hundreds of the things and, like bottoms, we all have them. Whatever gets you through the night eh? But what Colin forgets is that PM is just one. A very new one which hasn't really caught on because it's largely useless in the material world we inhabit. As fun on a stoned evening, well, yeah. But it's means nothing, can tell us nothing and contributes nothing to our understanding of ufology. It's all the rage for the hard of thinking and those people who don't actually want to understand anything but who love talking about understanding. >Cowards! Don't make us laugh even more Colin - there are people on this list who've done battle in the ufological trenches since god knows when. And these are people - even if I don't agree with them- who know their UFO history and know the problems involved. That's why they are still here - because they want to find out. That's why many of them devote the majority of their time and money to getting to grips with the problem, interviewing witnesses and actually doing some real work rather than sitting and commenting, twisting their words to suit any response. Face it kids - you cannot argue with a post modernist - only agree with them. >Come on, List members! And as Andy Roberts always says, don't >avoid the question. I never do. Famous for it! >Who is going to >throw the first punch and call Streiber a liar? Ok - Streiber's a liar. He has not had contact with aliens. Now go tell teacher. Happy Trails Andy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 17 (Lester B.) Pearson Intrigued by UFOs From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:19:21 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:19:21 -0500 Subject: (Lester B.) Pearson Intrigued by UFOs http://canada.com/national/story.asp?id=3D%7BCBED75B8-EDB4-434A-8BBA-EA16903= E41F2%7D Pearson's fascination with flying saucers Ian MacLeod The Ottawa Citizen Thursday, January 16, 2003 (Lester B.) Pearson: Intrigued by UFOs. In the spring of 1966, in the midst of one of his government's biggest crises, prime minister Lester Pearson turned his attention to flying saucers. Cabinet documents from the time reveal the embattled prime minister was intrigued by repeated reports of unidentified flying objects in the night skies over southern Ontario, Michigan and other Great Lakes states. The UFO sighting craze reached new heights when heavyweight boxer George Chuvalo, fresh from his famous "Battle of Toronto" match against Muhammad Ali, told reporters he and his wife saw unexplainable objects over Toronto the night after his March 29, 1966 loss to the world heavyweight boxing champion, then known as Cassius Clay. At the time, Mr. Pearson and his government were licking their own wounds. For the preceding month, the Liberals and John Diefenbaker's Conservative opposition had been trading heavy blows in the Commons over the government's handling of the case of George Victor Spencer, a Vancouver postal clerk accused by the RCMP, but never charged, of being a low-level Soviet spy. Under relentless questioning in the House by Mr. Diefenbaker and other critics, flustered Liberal justice minister Lucien Cardin lashed out by revealing the previously secret case of Gerda Munsinger, a German prostitute who had an affair with associate defence minister Pierre Sevigny during an earlier Diefenbaker government. The parliamentary rancour that followed nearly brought the Liberal government to collapse and is considered by some historians to be one of the most noxious periods in modern Canadian parliamentary history. Mr. Pearson told his cabinet it was "imperative" for the Liberals to end debate on the Munsinger issue, which threatened "to exacerbate an already dangerous and destructive Parliamentary situation." He soon agreed to a royal commission into Canada's first Parliamentary sex scandal and a separate commission of inquiry into the handling of the Spencer case. Mr. Pearson also suggested a new debate on the death penalty, a hot subject as two Quebec separatists were on death row. Mr. Cardin, who had been vehemently opposed to a Spencer inquiry, threatened to quit, taking with him other Quebec members of the Liberal caucus. There was media speculation that Mr. Pearson, too, would resign. On the morning of April 5, 1966, with the espionage inquiries soon set to begin, Mr. Pearson met with his cabinet. But instead of discussing Mr. Spencer or Ms. Munsinger, he said he wanted ministerial briefings on the UFO phenomenon, according to newly uncovered cabinet meeting minutes at the National Archives. Paul Hellyer was minister of national defence at the time. In an interview yesterday, he did not recall Mr. Pearson's UFO directive. "It's quite possible that we provided him with a briefing or gave him the information that we had, which was not very extensive," he said. "If he followed up, that's what would have happened. But he sometimes raised things, then didn't bother following up. There were a lot of things cooking in those days." Indeed. That very night, the Commons defeated a government motion to abolish capital punishment. The following day, Mr. Pearson unveiled a plan to make the federal public service bilingual. =A9 Copyright 2003 The Ottawa Citizen [UFO UpDates thanks Palmiro Campagna for the lead]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 17 Secrecy News -- 01/16/03 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org> Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:09:22 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:47:33 -0500 Subject: Secrecy News -- 01/16/03 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2003, Issue No. 7 January 16, 2003 ** RUMSFELD WANTS MORE INFO OFF THE WEB ** GOVERNMENT INFORMATION AS PROPERTY ** TIA OPPOSITION BUILDS ** THE ANTHRAX CURE ** DECLASSIFYING THE "FACT OF" SAT RECCE (1978) RUMSFELD WANTS MORE INFO OFF THE WEB There is still too much sensitive information available on DoD web sites that must be removed, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld warned in a message circulated throughout the Defense Department this week. Thousands of unclassified Defense Department web pages have been modified or removed from public access since September 11, 2001, in the name of operational security. But citing an al Qaeda terrorist training manual, Secretary Rumsfeld said "One must conclude our enemies access DoD web sites on a regular basis." "The fact that For Official Use Only (FOUO) and other sensitive unclassified information (e.g., CONOPS, OPLANS, SOP) continues to be found on public web sites indicates that too often data posted are insufficiently reviewed for sensitivity and/or inadequately protected. Over 1500 discrepancies were found during the past year," he wrote. "This continuing trend must be reversed." "Thinking about what may be helpful to an adversary prior to posting any information to the web could eliminate many vulnerabilities," he advised. However, such guidance, taken by itself, would dictate the elimination of nearly all accurate information from DoD web sites since practically anything could be of use to an adversary in some conceivable scenario. Secretary Rumsfeld's January 14 message on "Web Site OPSEC Discrepancies," which was first reported by Dan Dupont of InsideDefense.com, is available here: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2003/01/dodweb.html GOVERNMENT INFORMATION AS PROPERTY When Drug Enforcement Administration analyst Jonathan Randel was sentenced this week to a year in prison for leaking unclassified government information to a British journalist, the law that he was found to have violated was not the Espionage Act, but another statute that treats government information as property - - the government's property -- that can be stolen or misappropriated. 18 United States Code section 641 ominously applies to "Whoever embezzles, steals, purloins, or knowingly converts to his use or the use of another, or without authority, sells, conveys or disposes of any record, ... or thing of value of the United States or of any department or agency thereof" as well as "Whoever receives, conceals, or retains the same with intent to convert it to his use or gain, knowing it to have been embezzled, stolen, purloined or converted...." See: http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/641.html The prohibition against conveying any information ("thing of value") without authority and against receiving that information would seem to have far reaching implications. "Why bother with an Official Secrets Act with this thing on the books?" mused former CIA analyst Allen Thomson. See also "Federal Worker Sentenced for Passing on Information" by Felicity Barringer, New York Times, January 16: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/16/national/16DEA.html TIA OPPOSITION BUILDS Senator Ron Wyden said he will seek legislation to "limit the scope" of DARPA's controversial Total Information Awareness (TIA) data mining program. "My concern is the program that has been developed by Mr. Poindexter is going forward without congressional oversight and without clear accountability and guidelines," Sen. Wyden said. "It is time for the Senate to put some reins on this program before it grows exponentially and tips the balance with respect to privacy rights and the need to protect the national security in a fashion that is detrimental to our Nation." See: http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2003_cr/s011503.html An extraordinarily diverse coalition of civil liberties organizations -- from the ACLU to the American Conservative Union -- wrote to Congress this week asking that TIA be suspended. The letter, organized by the Electronic Privacy Information Center, is posted here: http://www.epic.org/privacy/profiling/TIA_coalition_letter.pdf THE ANTHRAX CURE In a remarkable medical development, genetically modified anthrax bacteria have been used successfully to shrink or eliminate certain types of cancers in laboratory mice. "The engineered toxin displayed potent tumor cell cytotoxicity to a spectrum of transplanted tumors of diverse origin and could eradicate established solid tumors," according to a paper published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences this week. "The data show that a simple change of protease activation specificity converts anthrax toxin from a highly lethal to a potent tumoricidal agent." See "Potent antitumor activity of a urokinase-activated engineered anthrax toxin," by Shihui Liu, et al, PNAS, January 13, here (flagged by defensetech.org): http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/0236849100v1?jkey=T0KX6yZIufr1Q The continuing progress on this work is a timely reminder of the potential benefits of scientific research involving highly toxic materials. Such benefits could be jeopardized by the increasing security restrictions placed on research involving certain toxic materials, including "select agents" such as anthrax. DECLASSIFYING THE "FACT OF" SAT RECCE (1978) The question of whether or not to declassify the mere fact that the United States makes use of reconnaissance satellites was a point of contention in 1978. The issue was meticulously examined from all angles. There were positive aspects: It "would add to government credibility by admitting to fact that is already widely known." But also negative features to consider: "There is concern about a succession of further inquiries and disclosures, particularly FOIA." Following arduous interagency consultations, the "fact of" U.S. spy satellites was eventually declassified. One record of that old, but still interesting, debate is a 1978 memorandum for the Director of Central Intelligence briefing him on the issue. A copy of the memorandum, declassified last year, is available here (thanks to MJR and JTR): http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/nrpdecl.html _______________________________________________ Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org with "subscribe" in the body of the message. OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html _______________________ Steven Aftergood Project on Government Secrecy Federation of American Scientists web: www.fas.org/sgp/index.html email: saftergood@fas.org voice: (202) 454-4691
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 17 Re: Corso - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 22:54:07 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:51:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Hall >From: Andy Roberts <aj.roberts@blueyonder.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 17:14:28 -0000 >Subject: Re: Corso >>From: Colin Bennett <sharkley@panzerben.fsworld.co.uk> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 08:22:43 -0000 >>Subject: Re: Corso >Pilgrims, >I've refrained from commenting on Colin's, er, 'texts' of late >because we came to a private cease fire. However, as my name was >mentioned at the end of his latest missive I felt I had to >comment. >At first I thought it was another of his 'Combat Diaries' - too >late realised it was a Wombat's Diary! >It was felt among UK ufologists when Colin reared his head from >kindergarten UFO class that he was some form of carefully >constructed hoax - perhaps one of John Lunberg or Jim Schnabel's >(he wasn't one of ours). Then we realised he wasn't and that he >_actually_ means what he writes. >Oooeeeoo as Ed Sanders used to say. >Which, quite frankly, is why you'll find no sensible UK >ufologist either replying to his quicksand texts or rising to >his rather dull bait. We've all been around and been through >this before in other guises. The names and the, ahem, >'philosophies' change but the message is all too clear: >"I'm here, look at me, I've got ideas, I'm going to transform >ufology". <snip> >Colin's a polite, well educated guy. He's obviously digested far >too much Iain Sinclair in his time and probably thinks Derrida >has something useful to say (he doesn't, I spent several days >typeing up someone's PhD thesis on this). But he knows nothing >about ufology I'm afraid. Or how to write - ability to use >metaphor as metaphor, simile for it's own sake and big words to >impress is a bit like some of the A level course work I've seen. <snip> >Rather than actually comment on the turgid prose we've all had >to suffer lately (and will ahve to do so for some time before >Colin fades away) I pulled this out of his latest missive: >>You do not understand postmodernism. >Ahh, bless, 'they' always say we don't understand them. Have you >listened to the Grateful Dead's 'Estimated Prophet' Colin? It's >about you, "My time coming, any day" etc. >>It is a philosophy, >Really - we're clearly too stupid to understand that one and >have to _told_! A philosophy eh? What will these clever guys >think of next? >>a way of describing and interpreting the world. >And here's the nub. Yes PM is a philosophy - there are bloody >hundreds of the things and, like bottoms, we all have them. >Whatever gets you through the night eh? >But what Colin forgets is that PM is just one. A very new one >which hasn't really caught on because it's largely useless in >the material world we inhabit. Andy, Amen to this last comment, which is a point I have been trying to make with Colin the Windy. I happen to have a university degree in philosophy and post modernism is NOT a philosophy; it's a quaint and unjustifed way of pre-empting all philosophical discussion by waving a magic wand. I'm sure that my degree means nothing to him, and he will scold me for mentioning it, but contrary to his view that facts, logic, evidence (scientific method) are worthless and meaningless, he is yet to answer my question about what his substitute is. How does he decide on hiring an attorney, choosing a dentist, punishing "evil-doers," etc? Does he do it by reading the "literature" of people who by any common sense standards and universally accepted rules of reason and conventions of society are liars, frauds, and con-men and pronouncing on what cultural heroes they are, or by factual checking and rudimentary investigation of UFO reports? After jousting with Colin for a while, I have concluded that he is nothing but an insincere game player who gets his jollies by taunting people and playing semantical games, and unless he demonstrates some sincere interest in communicating, I will have nothing further to do with him. I know some big words too, some of which apply to him, like "persiflage" which is an especially good fit. And I have also studied semantics. I have far more respect (relatively speaking) for some skeptics with whom I have profound disagreement about the interpretation of the data, than I do for Colin's subjectivism and nihilism (a couple of more big words that seem to apply to him.) That being said, I think those skeptics also need to punch up their logic and reasoning far beyond their current simplistic rejection of human testimony that has been screened through sensible procedures and points to something of potentially profound importance occurring in the skies of Planet Earth. - Dick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 17 Re: Corso - Bennett From: Colin Bennett <sharkley@panzerben.fsworld.co.uk> Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 23:12:04 -0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:53:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Bennett >From: Andy Roberts <aj.roberts@blueyonder.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 17:14:28 -0000 >Subject: Re: Corso Andy, you once described yourself to me as a professional Yorkshireman. Such beings usually describe every person in the South of England as decadent fancy whores and ponces who speak with a la-de-da accents and invent all kinds of French-inspired blue-chinned Dago intellectual nonsense (such as postmodernism) in order to interpret the world and experience. People from North usually describe people from the South as floating six feet above the ground, and speaking in three- syllable four-clause nonsense looking down their noses at everyone beyond Cheltenham. Little do you know Andy that this view of Southern persons is a view I regard as having some merit. However what worries me is not so much the social prejudice so much as the style in which you express himself. Andy, you sound very, very tired, world-weary and very depressed and rather emotional, if you don't mind saying so. Reading your post, I saw you for a moment as a sad drunk at the end of the bar looking down into a glass, and cursing the entire world. Your criticisms of me (and all persons else you mentioned by name) were rendered quite ineffective because of your world-weary cynicism and expression of almost personal despair. You just can't put Nick Pope, Georgina Bruni, Tim Matthews, Jerry Clark and myself, in one big basket and try and bludgeon us to death. What is the matter with you? You can do a lot better than this. You have done in the past. You appear to have lost your sense of humour. If Ufology is making you so angry and depressed and bitter I would pack it in, frankly. Try long walks and fishing to work it all off. You won't write or think well whilst you are in this terrible state. I personally get great joy out of all Ufology's contradictions, hypocrisies, clashes, and hatreds. I love the punch-ups in particular, they're the best sport available. It is a wonderful culture, connected to just about every field of human endeavour you can think of. As for what is at stake, can anything beat that? As for the mass of outraged American Ufologists Andy, I'd be more frightened of being savaged by a dead sheep, boy. I thought you were a tough cat, and you threaten me with American Ufologists? If that's your best shot, baby, you are in more trouble than I every thought. I would retreat further North if I were you, because there's a hell of a lot more outrage to come, and if you think this is heat, then get out of the effing kitchen. One of my heroes is the much-abused Gordon Liddy who said (lighting a match under his finger) I am not to be intimidated. I'd answer some of your criticism in detail, but in the face of your obvious deeply personal black despair, I don't think that would be valuable. If we are all such patent tossers, why are you screaming at me and others like a gone-mad sneering loon? Now Andy I am going to forget this post of yours. It is frankly, embarrassing in its expression of savage frustration and crudity. You sound totally disillusioned by Ufology and everybody in it. Your post is not about Colin (Bad Man) Bennett's silly views. It is about yourself. But I must admit I know the feeling. Everybody knows the feelings. You are down in the dumps. Silly Bennett alone could not have caused that. Try again Andy, I never measure a man by his worst moments. I think you wrote when you were savagely angry and possibly a little envious of the fancy southern ponces like me and their equally fancy egos. Yes Andy, I am the piece of Oxford crap you think I am, and I must admit we all have those cursing moments, but most tend to keep them private and under control if only because they can cause enormous personal damage to an individual. I tell you what I think Andy -- I think the anger you have expressed could not possibly have been caused by myself, or even your favourite target Georgina Bruni. Your anger is deep, far deeper than Bruni or myself could possibly reach. If you don't do something about these outbursts you are going be seriously damaged inside. Now just have a deep think and get rid of this bad luggage you've got tucked away somewhere. You're a great guy really, but you've got to sort this personal angst thing out. You might consider taking professional advice about this constant loss of temper of yours. It could turn bad inside, and we would not want to lose you. You see Mr. Clarke would never have done it this way. Mr. Clarke would have had me up all night trying to write good answers to his tricky and clever questions. He's a negotiator, is Mr. Clarke. He knows how to deal with a wanker like me. He would have given me a deal instead of all your common pavement shouting about "he can't write, he can't think, he's no good, he's just showing off with his long words blah blah" You should learn something from your co-author. He's a cool cat, but in this post at least, you sound like a screaming ape with a hernia. You must have written this when you were as tight as a kettledrum at an oratorio. Even your html lines swing like a pendulum do. However, having said that, Andy, I like you. You've got balls and you've got style. But just remember you 'ain't the only tough guy in town. You must steady up and use tactics and footwork and retain a cool head otherwise as a raging bull you'll get picked off by the taller crisper punchers, and you'll run out of steam very quickly at the rate you are trying to work at. And never ever lose your temper in the ring. That is fatal. Like Mr. Clarke, try a lower working rate, and loose some weight because you are huffing and puffing by the third round, and that's far to soon for the champion you could well be. (see - the Bad Man can be nice, even under very trying conditions. He's probably had a lot more experience in life than you would ever think, Andy). But in this respect, I must say that I really admired the awesome and wonderful recovery you make towards the end of your post. You shook your head, and made a marvelous escape: a truly death- defying leap from what Bunyan (or was it Milton?) called the slough of despond. Certainly, no massive failure of nerve for you. There are not are many ufologists built like this. Andy, you are what Tom Wolfe called the Right Stuff. Now that's the Andy Roberts we know and love. Let us all pray now sisters and brother that Mr. Whitely Streiber, the Author of Communion and the writer of the Foreword to Stanton Friedman's Top Secret Majic is of the same opinion. Andy, I knew you would take the bait! The whole offer was designed with you in mind! Take this as a lesson Andy: If you think you are smart, There's always someone smarter! Good night to thee, Brother Bear, and lay off the Red Stripe, please, because it's doing yo' head in, boy. Colin (Bad Man) Bennett Hallelujah!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 17 Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer - Speiser From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 17:08:37 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:56:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer - Speiser >From: Gord Heath <gwheath@shaw.ca> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 21:15:53 -0800 >Subject: Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer >I just wished to point out that the contemporary range of the >cougar or mountain lion does not include Saskatchewan or >Manitoba. Please refer to: >http://members.tripod.com/endangeredtiger/mountainlionmap.JPG <snip> I can't believe we're actually discussing this childish prank. Does anyone even timidly suggest that this might be the work of an advanced extra-terrestrial species? Why can it NOT be a very human practical joke? ==JJS==
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 17 Re: Levengood Credentials - Speiser From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 17:38:43 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 08:59:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Levengood Credentials - Speiser >From: Nancy Talbott <bltresearch@attbi.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 01:07:43 +0000 >Subject: Re: Levengood Credentials - Talbot >[Non-subscriber Post] >>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 20:50:54 -0700 >>Subject: Re: Levengood Credentials >>>From: Dave Haith <visions@ntlworld.com> >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 01:51:40 -0000 >>>Subject: Levengood Credentials >>>Following the correspondence below on UFO UpDates from Jim >>>Spieser (JJS) I emailed Nancy Talbott of the BLT Research Team >>>about Levengood and the controversy. >>>I reproduce her letter of reply to me below in its entirety with >>>her full permission in the hope that it will clarify this matter >>>once and for all. >>If I may be permitted to cross-post a response to this issue >>from Jim Delton, a colleague of mine here in Arizona (with his >>permission)... I respond with the words of others because I >>myself profess ignorance of the ways of the higher-ly educated, >>being only an AGND (Ain't Got No Degree). <snip> >Jim..... >My remarks regarding Levengood's credentials, posted on the >internet by Dave Haith, were taken from Levengood's reply to my >queries about this years ago, and contains all the information I >have on the subject. Levengood and I have not been in touch for >nearly two years now and I've got other things to attend to. >Think perhaps you might have also? Um, actually, no, this is part of what I do. I must confess I am not as bothered by Levengood's sleight-of-hand as are others, and am not sure it affects my opinion of the efficacy of his work. (There are _other_ factors that _do_ affect my opinion, but I'll raise them separately.) But this information seems to be important to people, and so I am passing it along. While your comments are always very welcome, I didn't post any of this to impose upon your time. And by the way, I commend your diligence in setting the record straight. Thank you for that. On the chance that your remarks were solely intended for Jim Delton, I'll pass them along to him as well. Jim Speiser Give light, and the darkness will disappear of itself. -- Desiderius Erasmus
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 17 Re: Corso - Oplatka From: Laurel Oplatka <calabash2003@webtv.net> Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 19:07:33 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 11:40:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Oplatka >From: Colin Bennett <sharkley@panzerben.fsworld.co.uk> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 08:22:43 -0000 >Subject: Re: Corso <snip> >I look forward to Mr Loptaka's next question in fear and >trembling. <snip> Being a lay person does seem to pose some difficulty to being on this List... and now Colin Bennett has called me a "Mr." in his latest post, (perhaps he was thinking about Stan Laurel), but I am female. Speaking of which, I frequently refer to the writings/research of A. Druffel, J. Randles, L. M. Howe, K. Wilson, as well as K. Turner. Why do I insist upon reading/pondering/experiencing the hugely erudite, vastly witty and transcendental mind of Mr. Bennett? My introduction to this 'UFO thing' (referring to it as a phenomena no longer even makes sense to me), was by way of the Lorenzen's APRO - their works and friendship - which I respected very much. I also indeed respect Stanton Friedman and Richard Hall. The causative factor in my clinging to strictly nuts-and-bolts, in the beginning, was due to - plain and simply - fear. What's wrong with my admitting that primal fear locked me into linear thinking and kept me from reading even the Tibetan Book Of The Dead? In any event, JFK (Grace, Fowler, Keel) among others, propelled me out of my shell, leading me into more non-linear pursuits, an ever-expanding library, new conversations on and off line. Yes, I did read David "Komodo Dragon" Icke (how can he still be alive?) - and just recently one of his violent critics has 'go there' right now..... My seemingly non-UFO related readings (which have a pretty broad scope, I think), started bleeding into my UFO library... well, my physical brain, "mind" both conscious and sub, psyche/soul are pushing me into delving into and exploring the writings of Colin Bennett, as well as yikes! Quantum Theory, the question re: that subject will be, for me, which books to pursue (Ghost of the Atom ? There are over a thousand books on Quantum Physics, Mechanics - where to start?) Matter isn't solid how to deal with this wave-particle dilemma? Laurel
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 17 Re: Corso - Hansen From: George Hansen <gphansen2001@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 19:36:41 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 12:23:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Hansen Judging from some of the comments on Colin Bennett's posts, I gather that many ufologists do not appreciate just how pertinent postmodern and deconstructionist theory is for ufology. The intellectual vertigo that some may feel after reading Bennett is altogether similar to that experienced by establishment scientists who read the UFO literature. Unfortunately, most ufologists are trapped in beliefs in literalism and in the transparency of language, beliefs shared by both scientists and religious fundamentalists--the major antagonists of ufology. This is no accident. Postmodern literary theory emphasizes problems of interpretation (it problematizes "meaning"). Hermeneutics is the study of interpretation, and it was named for Hermes, the Greek trickster. (Some may have suspected Colin Bennett of pulling a hoax, but the same suspicion was directed at Claude Levi- Strauss, founder of modern structuralism [which fostered deconstruction].) "Meaning" is a liminal phenomenon. It has a betwixt and between quality (this should be clear to anyone familiar with Saussure's work on semiotics). UFOs likewise are strongly liminal, and they share many of the properties of "meaning." UFOs subvert the internal-external, fact-fiction, subjective-objective, heaven- earth, human-divine, unconscious-conscious, and word-referent binary oppositions (to name just a few). Those who denounce Colin Bennett's approach are woefully ignorant. There is a massive amount of pertinent theory supporting his approach. Ufologists are welcome to ignore that work, but if they do, they should not be surprised at their reception in intellectual circles. Their sneers at Derrida are only too telling. George P. Hansen ===== The Trickster and the Paranormal http://www.tricksterbook.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 17 Re: An Abduction Checklist - Gates From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 23:39:16 EST Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 12:28:04 -0500 Subject: Re: An Abduction Checklist - Gates >From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 12:56:30 -0800 (PST) >Subject: Re: An Abduction Checklist <snip> >>So what I want to know is when 2006 comes and goes and the end >>of the world doesn't happen, can we dismiss the Bible Code books >>as a load of garbage? Much like the alleged and supposed Planet >>X drival published by Hazelwood, or the earlier claims about ET >>mass landings to happen in the desert SW on April 24th 1997, or >>ET landings on a desert mountaintop in Dec of 2000. >Here's a hint regarding the validity of the "Bible Codes": you >can get similar 'prophetic' messages by applying the Bible Codes >technique to 'Moby Dick'. Although I have never done that, it would be interesting to take a book, say by Phil Klass or somebody else, then apply the same technique to it. I bet you could find all sorts of numbers and so called messages. >And maybe this is just me, but isn't the oft-used term "the end >of the world" just a bit vague (and egotistical)? What, >exactly, is meant by "world"? What constitutes an "end"? From a >quantum perspective, the world ends and begins again upon the >act of observation. I know when I hear the term "End of the World" which of abberviate to EOTW, it generally refers to Armageddon, the end of earth as we know it, giant asteriod hits taking earth back to the stone age, blah blah blah. Point being is this planet has "survived" many hits, has survived many "wars" that some/many consider to be the EOTW war so to speak. I recall reading a book about the Civil War and the author made a point that you could have called the US Civil War a "World War" because of the various countrys that were supplying each side. As I recall at one point France was going to openly side with the South, and some major country (Russia) sailed their fleet into San Francisco as a show of support for the North, or something like that. Then we had WW 1, in which various religious groups were beside themselves that this was the final war, then WW-2 (don't forget the millions of Jews that were slaughtered) Korea, Vietnam, Gulf war 1, (which was said to be Armageddon by the various EOTW'ers, and so called Biblical Prophecy scholars and others) and now Gulf 2. Bottom line is the country and the globe will pull through it and survive. I would point out that the so called benovelant ETs that are just waiting to show up and save the world will not show up and save the world from the various wars and destructions that have happened and will happen. >Prophecy-mongers are also really big on 'World War III'. Just >how awful do things have to get before it's 'officially' a World >War? There's slaughter all over the planet. Surely this >justifies use of the term "war" in a global context? A person could make the claim that WW III started with 9/11 and is still going on through out the world. I supposed it's how a person defines how he/she believes WW III. For example (and I hope I am wrong) but I suspect that once the US is buried neck deep in Iraq, North Korea could come over the border and China could take Taiwan. That is more WW III as I would see it. >"The End of the World" is one of the mythological products that >Colin Bennett has tried to explain on this List. In this case, >the product is being marketed by publishers eager to exploit the >target audience's latent disasterbation fantasies. The EOTW is constantly milked with books and garbage. Look at Hazelwoods planet X theories, or the UFO radio/lecture circuit where people unload breathless tales of ET mass landings, or ET landing on a mountain top in Arizona, or such unattributed trash as 'Well person X who is a high level source in the intelligence community said.....' I thought Colin's stuff was post-modern drivel, with occasional drops of dog slober mixed with bat guano. :) Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 17 Re: An Abduction Checklist - Gates From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 23:55:34 EST Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 12:31:09 -0500 Subject: Re: An Abduction Checklist - Gates >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 21:23:18 +0000 >Subject: Re: An Abduction Checklist >Robert, >You don't understand the rules of prophecy. When it doesn't >happen, then the prophets say that God intervened, there was a >slight misinterpretation of the code and it will happen next >year, or etc. The book "When Prophecy Fails" is instructive in >these matters. Dick, So true. It has been my observation that the gulliable types who buy into these tales will never step forward after the event has failed to happen and loudy announce (in the same loud voice that they vociferously defended the guy before the date) that they had been misled, that the guy was full of crap, etc. Neither does the person promoting the tale/story step forward and say that they were wrong. Instead they slink off and get into the next story that comes along which tickles their ears. >I once had a visitor at NICAP who claimed she could communicate >with aliens by mental telepathy and without fail they would >appear in the sky at her request. There was an expanse of sky >visible from my office window, so I pointed to it and said go >ahead. Well, guess what? "The vibes weren't right." If I had >simply scoffed and acted hostile, she would no doubt have said >that it was me creating the negative vibes. But all I did was >call her bluff in a polite fashion. Guess the aliens had >business elsewhere. Nowadays that person would get on the UFO lecture circuit, write a book, have a video and CD, milk it for every dollar they could get out of it... and they would make money. Add a hands-on seminar of group flashlight waving at night and they could really make a bundle... :) Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 17 Washington Post Articles Of Interest From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 09:12:53 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 13:38:15 -0500 Subject: Washington Post Articles Of Interest The Washington Post has published a couple of articles of interest: The Man who has the Fringe Tied up in Knots By Don Oldenburg Washington Post Staff Writer Friday, January 17, 2003; Page C01 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A4092-2003Jan16.html and The Leader of UFO Land His Holiness Rael Explains the Origins Of Life on Earth. Except for That Clone. By DeNeen L. Brown Washington Post Foreign Service Friday, January 17, 2003; Page C01 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A4047-2003Jan16.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 17 National Review Online On UFO Cults From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 06:18:01 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 13:47:03 -0500 Subject: National Review Online On UFO Cults Hello, all. This is what we are up against. While funny, idiots like the ones mentioned in the article are why we struggle against the tide of Skeptical thought. No wonder when one mentions the reatlity of UFOs you are thought - delusional. GT McCoy http://www.nationalreview.com/script/printpage.asp?ref=/stuttaford/stuttaford011 703.asp
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 17 Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 12:57:32 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 13:50:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer - Ledger >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 17:08:37 -0700 >Subject: Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer >>From: Gord Heath <gwheath@shaw.ca> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 21:15:53 -0800 >>Subject: Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer >>I just wished to point out that the contemporary range of the >cougar or mountain lion does not include Saskatchewan or Manitoba. >Please refer to: >>http://members.tripod.com/endangeredtiger/mountainlionmap.JPG ><snip> >I can't believe we're actually discussing this childish prank. >Does anyone even timidly suggest that this might be the work of >an advanced extra-terrestrial species? Why can it NOT be a very >human practical joke? On the other hand Jim, I don't see you complaining about the List discussing Corso ad nausem for weeks now. Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 17 Re: Corso - Tonnies From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 11:06:45 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 14:17:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Tonnies >From: George Hansen <gphansen2001@yahoo.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 19:36:41 -0800 (PST) >Subject: Re: Corso >Judging from some of the comments on Colin Bennett's posts, I >gather that many ufologists do not appreciate just how pertinent >postmodern and deconstructionist theory is for ufology. I agree. If we're going to embrace the UFO phenomenon (as opposed to a few scattered reports that seem to fit convenient labels) then nothing less than a holistic, mythologically inclusive philosophy is needed. Ufology, as I interpret the term, encompasses not just the occasional daylight disk or nocturnal light, but the network of systems - "scientific," "skeptical," belief-driven, etc. - that give rise to UFO reports. As such, ufology is richly anthropological. I don't think open-minded science and Bennett's postmodern (or whatever you want to call it) take are mutually exclusive at all. But when one starts to push the other out of the investigative arena, we're in deep trouble. Bennett's "Looking for Orthon" and Hynek's "The UFO Experience" are equally relevant. They relate to the subject in unique, but very meaningful, ways. <snip> >Those who denounce Colin Bennett's approach are woefully >ignorant. There is a massive amount of pertinent theory >supporting his approach. Ufologists are welcome to ignore that >work, but if they do, they should not be surprised at their >reception in intellectual circles. The argument against Bennett seems to be that, on close reading, he isn't quite the intellectual he seems to be. I urge Bennett's detractors to read "Looking for Orthon" and "Politics of the Imagination," available by clicking the URL below: http://www.mactonnies.com/ufobooks.html Bennett redefines and mutates our fundamental approach to the UFO enigma as ably as Vallee. (And when he's not forced to constantly defend himself, his prose is remarkably agreeable.) ===== Mac Tonnies macbot@yahoo.com Transcelestial Ontology, Theoretical Ufology and Postmillennial Studies http://www.mactonnies.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 17 Cloning Claim Concerns UFO Researchers From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 16:59:15 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 16:59:15 -0500 Subject: Cloning Claim Concerns UFO Researchers http://www.activedayton.com/ddn/local/daily/0116ufo.html 01.16.2003 Cloning Claim Concerns UFO Researchers Idea that aliens created life is bunk, they say By Margo Rutledge Kissell Dayton Daily News INDIAN LAKE | At 79, John P. Timmerman has been on this planet long enough to know that some folks think UFO researchers are, well, a little out there. But the Indian Lake man worries a pro-cloning Canadian cult that claims life on Earth was created by space aliens is hurting their reputation. "My feeling was it was going to create a bad image," said Timmerman, who contacted the media on behalf of the J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO Studies, the Mutual UFO Network and the Fund for UFO Research. He is attempting to put roughly the distance of Earth to Pluto between the coalition of researchers and the Raelians. That sect founded Clonaid, a company that grabbed the spotlight Dec. 27 when it announced a female follower gave birth to the world's first human clone. It has provided no scientific proof. But even Timmerman - a retired Lima bank president who has been studying UFO sightings for a quarter century and has 1,600 labeled audiotapes about UFO sightings in his office closet - isn't buying the story of the sect's founder, Rael. Born Claude Vorilhon, Rael is a former French auto-racing journalist who says that in 1973 a space alien revealed that extraterrestrials had created life on Earth through genetic engineering. Timmerman said Rael claims the alien asked him to establish an embassy to welcome extraterrestrials. "This is ridiculous," said Timmerman, who sits on the board of the Chicago-based Center for UFO Studies. "It is important for all scientists and others to know that this claim is not supported by the community of serious researchers of the UFO phenomenon." [UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 17 Is This Really An Alien Craft? From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 17:06:39 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 17:06:39 -0500 Subject: Is This Really An Alien Craft? http://www.thisisbristol.com/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=86419&command=displayContent &sourceNode=86416&contentPK=3684268 Is This Really An Alien Craft? 11:00 - 16 January 2003 A UFO expert from Winterbourne, near Bristol, says the latest flying saucer pictures captured by a NASA satellite prove beyond doubt that there are aliens in space. Denis Plunkett, aged 71, one of the longest-serving members of the British Flying Saucer Bureau, is delighted the pictures are being made public. The pictures show the UFOs failed to navigate a straight course and observers claim it was being steered by some sort of intelligent life form. The NASA satellite is stationed in space one million miles from Earth with its camera trained on the sun. It has beamed back hundreds of images of different varieties of UFO travelling along what could be an 'alien superhighway'. Mr Plunkett said: "People regularly phone me with details of sightings and these pictures will hopefully convert a few more people. "More people than ever believe in UFOs - 50 years ago only one in ten people believed, but a survey in 1997 found eight in ten people believed there's something out there." The NASA images are due to be made public at the National Space Centre in Leicester by Mike Murray, the owner of an electronics company in Manchester. They were shown to him by a Spanish businessman who picked them up from a huge satellite at his home near Barcelona. Mr Murray said: "When we asked NASA about it, they originally said it might be a fault on the camera, but by digitally enhancing the images, we proved this wasn't the case. "NASA then told us it could be asteroids or comets, but when we pointed out that the objects appeared to move independently and make turns, they stopped answering our questions." Graham Birdsall, editor of UFO Magazine , said: "The images are irrefutable in that they are from official satellites owned by NASA. "They resemble the kind ofspace craft we used to see in sci-fi films like Star Trek ."I'm excited at the prospect of seeing authenticated images coming into the public domain that have taxed a considerable number of people at NASA." Mr Murray said: "The very fact these crafts appear to be the same shape as other UFOs spotted in our stratosphere is very exciting." Mr Plunkett began to think we were not alone in the universe when his cousin disappeared on a flight to the El Salto observatory in Chile in 1952. Despite sending a message to the control tower saying they would land in four minutes, the plane never reached its destination. Authorities carried out a search covering a 250-mile radius but found nothing. Mr Plunkett said: "The last message my cousin had sent to the control tower was STENDEC, which the radio operator didn't understand and asked him to repeat himself. "The same message was repeated." [see: http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2001/jan/m31-025.shtml --ebk] Mr Plunkett joined the Bristol-based British Flying Saucer Bureau which celebrates its 50th anniversary this year. He said: "We look at reports and have the usual equipment which we follow activities with. "Occasionally we get something come up in Bristol, and we have found that UFOs like water. "When they are chased they have often been reported to head towards the sea. "There have been lots of strange sightings over the Severn." [UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 17 Mysterious Circles Caused By Mother Nature From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 17:22:14 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 17:22:14 -0500 Subject: Mysterious Circles Caused By Mother Nature http://www.knoxnews.com/kns/world/article/0,1406,KNS_351_1678419,00.html Mysterious Circles Caused By Mother Nature, Not Aliens By LEE BOWMAN January 16, 2003 They've been credited to space aliens, gnomes or citizens of lost worlds, but a new computer-driven study concludes that only natural forces create perfect circles of stones and other geometric patterns that mysteriously form on the ground in parts of Alaska, Norway and other regions with long winters. Basically, soil and stones sort themselves into circles, polygons and stripes through a process of lateral sorting and squeezing that occurs as the ground cycles through freezes and thaws. "The patterns form by self-organization, and the same fundamental processes are at work in the formation of these different patterns," said Mark Kessler, a post-doctoral researcher in earth sciences at the University of California- Santa Cruz and lead author of the new study, published Friday in the journal Science. Scientists have proposed many explanations for the unusual patterns of stones and soil, which geologists call "sorted patterned ground." But Kessler and Brad Warner, a professor of geophysics at the University of California-San Diego, are the first to develop a model that's able to account for all the patterns seen in nature. "These landscapes are so amazing. It's the kind of thing that really calls out for an explanation," Kessler said. "If they were on the ground around here instead of such remote places, I think we would have figured them out a long time ago." The researchers compared patterns generated by their model with those observed in nature, using photographs taken from low- flying aircraft of polygon formations in Alaska. Measurements of actual formations and those in the model were consistent. "When you run the model on a computer, you can see the evolution of the patterns over time, and you can see how small changes in key parameters result in a transition from one pattern to another," Kessler added. Driving the lateral sorting and squeezing is a process known as frost heave, the expansion of fine-grained soils during the freezing of wet ground. During frost heave, the soil near the surface expands because water flows up through the soil toward a lens of ice, and, to a lesser extent, because water expands as it freezes. "If you start with a random layer of soil, frost heave makes the soil layer unstable and deforms the interface between stones and soil," Kessler said. As the lens of ice grows, it pushes outward on the stones and also removes moisture from the soil below, which compresses it. Where this interface is inclined, it causes the stones and soil to move from side-to-side. When the ground thaws, the compressed soil reabsorbs water and expands, but it expands upward, not out, and so the sideways displacement of soil created by the frost heave is not reversed. There are other processes involved in the sideways sorting, but the end result is a positive feedback loop in which cycles of freezing and thawing cause soil-rich areas to attract more soil and stone-rich areas to attack more stones. Once the stones have been concentrated into "stone domains," the frost heave also squeezes and lifts those areas, sometimes piling them up further, other times moving them along a straight line. Kessler said there are many factors that lead to differences in the relative strength of these forces, including the size of stones and the compressibility of the soil. On the Net: www.sciencemag.org (Contact Lee Bowman at BowmanL(at)shns.com or online at: http://www.shns.com) [UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 17 Something In The Air Tonight From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 17:29:20 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 17:29:20 -0500 Subject: Something In The Air Tonight http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/PEstory/TGAM/20030117/UROYYN/ national/national/nationalColumnistsHeadline_temp/2/2/6/ Friday, January 17, 2003 - Page A2 Something in the air tonight: Our passion for UFO sightings goes boldly on year after year By Roy Macgregor "No," the voice says from the shadow of Mount Baldy. "I'm not at all surprised." John Musgrave does not, it must be pointed out, speak for all Canadians -- many of whom are still trying to settle their eyebrows down following the news that came out of Ottawa this week. The National Archives has opened cabinet documents from the tense spring of 1966, revealing what the heavy thinking was in a time of deep Canadian political crisis: Soviet spies showing up in the Vancouver post office, a sex scandal involving a former Conservative minister, heated debate over the death penalty and even a rumour that the prime minister of the day, Lester B. Pearson, was going to resign. And what, exactly, was on Pearson's mind that morning of April 5, 1966, when he met with his nervous cabinet to discuss the situation? Sex scandal? Spies? The death penalty? No. What the prime minister asked for was defence briefing on Unidentified Flying Objects. Pearson's reasons for his sudden interest in UFOs are not given in the documents. But sightings were the rage of the day, one of the most fascinating involving Canadian boxer George Chuvalo, who claimed to have seen strange objects flying over Toronto the night after his loss to Cassius Clay. His wife also claimed to have seen them, thereby eliminating any connection cynics might have made between George's vision and Clay's gloves. If Pearson's request seems passing strange to some, it seems nothing of the sort to Musgrave, who a quarter of a century ago was himself a bit of a government scandal when the Canada Council awarded him a $6,000 grant to track down Canadian UFOs. Musgrave, who then lived in Edmonton, was savaged in Parliament -- the politicians having no idea what a serious researcher Musgrave was and how long and consistent has been the Canadian connection to other worlds. Musgrave had gathered sightings dating from Oct. 12, 1796 -- Simeon Perkins noting in his diary that he had counted 15 strange ships floating above the Bay of Fundy -- right through to Chuvalo's flying saucers and for years beyond. But no longer. Today, Musgrave lives in British Columbia's Okanagan Valley close to the U.S. border and his interests have lately been far more grounded. His research these days is far more likely to be on native issues than extraterrestrial, but he still has his rows of filing cabinets filled with Canadian UFO sightings and is still himself a believer in the phenomenon if not the fact. In fact, he only recently came across a report in an 1897 edition of the local Vernon News that someone had seen an airship -- "And it was obviously reported as if to say, 'Here's another one.' " Such a casual attitude to a possible visit from space also does not surprise Musgrave. Polls have consistently shown that Canadians, for whatever reasons, are quite content to believe there is intelligent life out there. Perhaps this is because they find so little here. An Angus Reid poll found not long ago that seven out of 10 Canadians "definitely" or "probably" think intelligent life would be found on other worlds. As well, 55 per cent say it is "very likely" or "somewhat likely" that Earth has been visited in the past by these extraterrestrials -- with 43 per cent saying that during their lifetime extraterrestrials are more likely than not to visit this planet, perhaps even dropping in on Canada. Sightings seem to go in cycles. And if so, we are currently in a high cycle beyond even what captured Pearson's interest 36 years ago. According to Chris Rutkowski, a Winnipeg-based researcher with Ufology Research of Manitoba, sightings in Canada reached 375 in 2001, a 40-per-cent increase over the year 2000. And with the tally for 2002 said to be more than 400, this last year has seen another significant increase. Rutkowski likes the idea that the 1966 cabinet documents reveal an interest from the prime minister and a request for a serious briefing from the defence department. "It's verification that the matter was being discussed at high levels of government," says Rutkowski. One can only wonder, then, if 36 years from now, the National Archives might release cabinet documents showing the current cabinet talking about the Raelians, the Quebec cult that claims to have produced the world's first cloned babies -- and who maintain humans were spawned from extraterrestrial DNA. Neither Rutkowski nor Musgrave, however, take the Raelians very seriously, though both do admire their extensive funding and ability to capture media attention. "If there's a group independently capable of producing cloned babies, it would likely be them," says Rutkowski, "but it's pretty hard to forget that they're led by a man who says he was given divine revelation by little green men." "It could be that they're right about us all being aliens," chuckles Musgrave from his mountainside retreat near Mount Baldy. "I've always wondered about my sister." rmacgregor@globeandmail.ca [UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 17 Alien 'Proof' Rejected As Hype From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 17:35:12 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 17:35:12 -0500 Subject: Alien 'Proof' Rejected As Hype http://icbirmingham.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100localnews/page.cfm?objectid=125 43975&method=full&siteid=50002 Jan 17 2003 Alien 'Proof' Rejected As Hype By Emma Brady Startling images of an object thought to be a UFO are nothing more than over-exposed pictures of a planet, according to a Birmingham professor. Pictures beamed back from the Solar and Heliospheric Observatory (Soho), a satellite monitoring the sun, using equipment developed by Birmingham University experts were thought to be proof of alien ships in space. But Professor George Simnett, head of the university's space research group, has dismissed the hype surrounding the claims as "nonsense". The digital pictures are due to be displayed in a public exhibition at the National Space Centre in Leicester - organised by UFO group Euroseti - next week. They were taken using LASCO - Large Angle Spectrometric Coronagraph - developed by experts from Birmingham University, the Naval Research Laboratory in Washington DC, the Max Planck Institute in Germany and LAS in Marseilles, France. Prof Simnett said: "The digital technology inside our instruments and camera is similar to those in domestic digital cameras, so instead of images being saved on film they are captured on a charged couple device. "If the CCD is saturated at a given point, for example with too much light, it causes an elongation of image with a bright white spot at the centre, which is a characteristic of over-exposure. "The image seen in various newspapers is of an over-exposed planet - it is not a UFO." Mike Murray, founder of Euroseti, obtained the images from a Spanish businessman who had received more than 700 pictures from Soho since 2001 by using a giant satellite dish at his home. Convinced the over-exposed pictures were of unidentified flying objects he approached Nasa, who had previously dismissed them as being the result of a camera fault. Nasa now believe the images are of comets or asteroids. But Prof Simnett said UFO investigators were clutching at straws with their latest claims. He said: "This story that these pictures are of alien craft is just nonsense. "The people at the National Space Centre should know better than this as well. "It's my camera, my instruments that have taken these pictures, and I know what it's capable of seeing. We understand perfectly how these images are filmed and what they appear to be - and they are not UFOs or alien crafts." But Mr Murray, who will give evening presentations about the images on January 24 to 26, said: "They are archetypal flying saucers - disc-shaped objects with some kind of glow around them. Many have a pulsing light and leave a trail behind them. "I think it's absolutely irrefutable that this couldn't be anything other than a machine. It's an astonishing picture." Last night the National Space Centre refused to be drawn into the debate. Pam Murdock, the centre's marketing manager, said: "As part of our business plan we offer corporate facilities for hire, but that does not necessarily mean we endorse the topic under discussion at any particular event." [UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 17 The UFO Hunters From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 17:40:55 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 17:40:55 -0500 Subject: The UFO Hunters http://www.techtv.com/news/culture/story/0,24195,3414589,00.html The UFO Hunters Meet the scientists who are serious about explaining strange flying phenomena. Watch today at 8 p.m. and Monday 1/20 at 10 a.m., 2 p.m. Eastern. By Brandon M. Mercer Tech Live A white light glows brightly on the black-and-white videotape. It's a ghostly, fuzzy dot hovering in midair, caught on surveillance video. Then, it leaps back and forth across the screen. Video experts say it's not faked. This is a UFO -- not necessarily an alien, but certainly an unidentified flying object. It appears on a videotape shown to TechTV. "That's what the basic premise of the whole organization is," biochemist Colm Kelleher says, "to transfer as many cases from the UFO category to the IFO. But even when you do that, you still have that percentage of cases that are unexplained." On tonight's "Tech Live," meet a member of a UFO-hunting organization, and see the incredible ways in which he's trying to explain the unexplained. Anomalies explained? Just off the Las Vegas strip, bathed in the other-worldly glow of the Luxor's giant white beacon, is a two-story office building with a nondescript marquee that reads National Institute for Discovery Science (NIDS). Behind the tinted glass windows, however, may lie the answers to phenomenon such as unidentified lights, mutilated animals, and extrasensory perception. Colm Kelleher Ph.D. is deputy administrator for NIDS. "We don't study aliens," the scientist clarifies. "We study anomalies. They're the same thing in a lot of people's minds, but not in our minds." Businessman and space tourism advocate Robert Bigelow founded NIDS in 1996 as a central clearinghouse for scientific investigations into anomalies, mostly UFOs. Kelleher and other scientists work with teams of former police detectives, interviewing witnesses and corroborating evidence of strange anomalies. "There have been disc-shaped objects, large triangular objects, objects swooping down and following people in their vehicles," he says. "We're talking daytime -- we're not talking distant lights in the sky or anything. We're talking up close and personal." Since establishing a 24-hour hotline in 1999, NIDS has received more than 5,000 phone calls and email messages reporting UFOs. Most reports are of missile launches from places such as White Sands Air Force Base, meteors, or strange military planes, such as the newly declassified Boeing Bird of Prey. Several hundred filings, however, have no explanation, and those are the ones on which Kelleher is staking his career. Worthless research ridiculed "The vast majority of scientists dismiss this type of research as being absolutely worthless," he says. "The scientific community generally tends to reject anything without evidence, obvious evidence." Kelleher himself has seen strange floating lights that he could not explain, and he says it's scientific curiosity that drives him. He knows there must be some explanation, and he thinks it's a travesty that mainstream scientists are not doing more to solve the mystery. "There's a real aura of ridicule and trivialization surrounding the UFO field which makes scientists run a mile the other way," Kelleher admits. "To many scientists, studying UFOs is really a career killer, and that hasn't changed in 50 years." Many mainstream experts do get involved, however, by anonymously analyzing data. Videotape and photo analysts narrow down the documented sightings. One that no expert could explain was a videotape taken at a wedding party in Chile in 1998. The footage, which was shown to TechTV, was taken by amateurs. It shows a formation of several ant-shaped objects hovering in the distant sky. Kelleher's video expert says, "This video footage was not faked, it is not fraudulent, it is not an airplane, it's not people parachuting, it's not insects, it's not birds. In short, it is unexplained." The tape is one of dozens stacked in a room full of VCRs and TVs, but that's just the tip of the iceberg for this data- gathering organization. A remote area in Northeast Utah is getting the majority of NIDS' attention. Focus on the Southwest "For some unknown reason, for the last 50 years, and I'm talking continuous, there've been hundreds, literally hundreds of sightings over the small area," Kelleher says. A biology teacher started cataloging the sightings in the 1960s, and he gave his database to the institute. Now they're all documented on giant maps covering two walls of the room where this reporter is interviewing Kelleher. NIDS has round-the-clock surveillance set up at the UFO hot spot, with an infrared camera scanning the heavens. He showed TechTV a missile launch from Vandenberg Air Force Base as an example of the camera's sensitivity. The launch was thousands of miles away, but appeared as a brilliant plume on the black-and- white display. "If there is evidence of an anomaly, we start looking for physical evidence," Kelleher says. Tools of a UFO hunter Kelleher pulls out a giant, ominous-looking black suitcase filled with technology that would be at home in a James Bond movie, or maybe in "Ghostbusters." It's the field kit for a UFO hunter, and it's packed with all the electronics he needs to record something monumental. "The Holy Grail in the UFO field is to get a good light spectrum from a UFO, and that has not been possible in the last 50 years," the scientist says. But modern technology is changing that. His kit includes a spectrum analyzer called a spectophotometer that can analyze light and tell scientists what elements are producing the glow. Spectophotometers have only recently become small enough to fit in your hand, Kelleher explains. "Before that you were talking about something that would fit on a lab bench, where if you're going out into the field and talking about tracking these lights, that's just impossible." A Fresnel lens gathers light from an unidentified object and sends that down fiber optics into the device. The spectophotometer is then linked to Kelleher's Dell laptop computer, which can instantly give a real-time analysis of what elements are generating the light. With that, he can tell whether something comes from Earth or from another planet. "The definition of 'extraterrestrial' is linked to different isotope ratios: carbon, phosphorous, nitrogen," Kelleher says. Kelleher doesn't just want to stand around gathering light, however. He's got a light of his own. A powerful LED array is attached to a battery that looks like it came from a small car. The LED array can be seen from more than a mile away. "The instrument is based on the 'Close Encounters' mentality," he laughs. The computer controls the LED, generating a signal in Morse code or ASCII text that he can beam at a flying object. It can also collect a reply and store that information on the laptop and on a tape backup. All UFOs not alien? Why would aliens be able to read Morse code, and how does he know he wouldn't be signaling to them something hostile? The answer, at least for Kelleher, is that there's no reason to assume UFOs are alien. "The UFO field is saturated with bizarre explanations of what UFOs are, but those explanations are not founded on data, they're founded upon interpretation and/or imagination," he says. "We're really taking several steps back and we're just going to gather data before we make a hypothesis." When pressed, however, he'll admit he's got a few thoughts. Yes, it could be alien, but it could also be something more mysterious, like a "storm in time" that provides a wrinkle in another dimension, offering a peek into something from ancient times, or into the future. The more obvious explanation for many of the sightings is top- secret stealth military projects. The Bird of Prey was one top- secret plane that was recently unveiled by Boeing, and Kelleher thinks the military will soon pull the wraps off another top- secret project that many UFO observers call "Big Black Deltas." UFOs Explained Since September 11, 2001, Kelleher says, UFO sightings have decreased, except for in one category: Big Black Deltas. "We think this BBD [Big Black Delta] object may be a combination of lighter-than-air and aircraft hybrid technology," Kelleher says. Imagine a black triangle longer than a football field that is able to move silently across the sky and seems to appear and disappear quickly. "Currently we have 250 sightings of these objects in our database from all over the country," he says. "Superimposed on that map we have the locations of the air mobility command air force bases in the US." Kelleher shows the map and reports a clustering around certain bases, including spots in New Jersey, Los Angeles, Seattle, and of course near the famous Area 51 in Nevada known as Groom Lake. "We have an interview from a person who claims to have seen one of these objects on the runway at Groom Lake," Kelleher says. "He said it was a gigantic triangular object on the ground." Possible explanation for sightings The BBDs are also thought to be behind the March 1997 sightings of strange lights over Phoenix, which were captured by several television new crews and tracked across the entire desert Southwest. These proposed aircraft would be a good candidate for UFO reports because of their hypothetical quiet propulsion system, blimplike structure, and advanced stealth capabilities. Electrochromatic displays are the key. The idea is to project images of the sky above an aircraft onto the machine's underbelly. "There are a lot of indications that military soldiers have that kind of technology," Kelleher explains. "They say you can see star fields in these. Some people even tell us if you really look, you can see the leading edge as it moves across the stars," Kelleher says. So far the military is not confirming anything about the Deltas, but if past experience with the unmanned drones, the B2 Stealth Bomber, the SR-71, and other revolutionary aircraft is any indicator, the Deltas may be flying for years before anyone tells the public what they are. The UFO field remains bizarre, frightening, speculative, and mysterious, and Kelleher and NIDS hope to demystify the unidentified objects. They may not get much help from scientists, but the public, he says, is ready for answers. "There's huge interest in the investigation of the UFO phenomenon, but the gap between the public interest and the interest in the scientific community is huge," Kelleher says. "It's a chasm, and that chasm I don't think has narrowed in the last 50 years." It's Kelleher's hope that the next 50 years may bring some answers. [UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 17 Re: An Abduction Checklist - Velez From: John <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 14:14:34 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 18:34:50 -0500 Subject: Re: An Abduction Checklist - Velez >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 23:39:16 EST >Subject: Re: An Abduction Checklist >>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 12:56:30 -0800 (PST) >>Subject: Re: An Abduction Checklist ><snip> >>>So what I want to know is when 2006 comes and goes and the end >>>of the world doesn't happen, can we dismiss the Bible Code books >>>as a load of garbage? Much like the alleged and supposed Planet >>>X drival published by Hazelwood, or the earlier claims about ET >>>mass landings to happen in the desert SW on April 24th 1997, or >>>ET landings on a desert mountaintop in Dec of 2000. >>Here's a hint regarding the validity of the "Bible Codes": you >>can get similar 'prophetic' messages by applying the Bible Codes >>technique to 'Moby Dick'. >Although I have never done that, it would be interesting to take >a book, say by Phil Klass or somebody else, then apply the same >technique to it. I bet you could find all sorts of numbers and >so called messages. Hi Robert, All, Just an FYI so we don't accidentally step on anyone's religious beliefs: I had the great good fortune to study with a Hassidic Rabbi for almost two years back in the mid-eighties. (Dr. Joseph Gelberman, N.Y.) The book regarding the Bible codes is a _bastardized_ version of a mathematical method for extracting hidden meaning from Biblical texts. This method/system is called, "Gematria." The Hebrew mystics only acknowledge the first five books of what we call 'The Bible' as being 'The' Bible. (The five books of Moses.) The original Hebrew version was written in one long string of Hebrew characters/letters. One long, unbroken 'sentence' with no breaks for individual words, sentences or paragraphs. The entire text of the five books represents (spelled out) in one long, unbroken series of letters/characters, the "Name of God". Gematria is intended to reveal several hidden 'layers' of meaning that were supposedly encoded by God Himself into the sacred text. The method/system is intended to extract meaning from the Bible (five books of Moses) and is not intended to be applied to anything else. Phil Klass not withstanding. Comments on the book 'The Bible Code' should be carefully worded so that we don't accidentally belittle, or minimize, the religious beliefs of others. There are Jewish people on this List and some may be religious Jews. In our ridicule of the 'Bible Code' book let's try to remain sensitive to the fact that some people may hold those beliefs near and dear to their hearts. Otherwise, I agree with just about everything that's been said regarding the misapplication of the 'Bible Code.' Just remember that the original version of this system was never intended to be applied to anything other than the original - written in Hebrew - Bible. >I thought Colin's stuff was post-modern drivel, with occasional >drops of dog slober mixed with bat guano. :) Aw, don't be too rough on that self-absorbed, long-winded, and pompous macaroon. Given the magnitude of that Character disorder, if we didn't allow him to vent here there might be a basement full of hacked bodies somewhere in England. Regards, John Velez, Typical Homer Simpson loving, television for a head, American. ;) Sign the International Petition to the United Nations for disclosure of information pertaining to UFOs. http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 17 Re: Corso - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 19:15:39 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 18:37:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Hall >From: George Hansen <gphansen2001@yahoo.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 19:36:41 -0800 (PST) >Subject: Re: Corso >Judging from some of the comments on Colin Bennett's posts, I >gather that many ufologists do not appreciate just how pertinent >postmodern and deconstructionist theory is for ufology. >The intellectual vertigo that some may feel after reading >Bennett is altogether similar to that experienced by >establishment scientists who read the UFO literature. >Unfortunately, most ufologists are trapped in beliefs in >literalism and in the transparency of language, beliefs shared >by both scientists and religious fundamentalists--the major >antagonists of ufology. This is no accident. George, And of course this postmodernism supplants everything science has established to date, is this your belief? >Postmodern literary theory emphasizes problems of interpretation >(it problematizes "meaning"). Hermeneutics is the study of >interpretation, and it was named for Hermes, the Greek >trickster. (Some may have suspected Colin Bennett of pulling a >hoax, but the same suspicion was directed at Claude Levi- >Strauss, founder of modern structuralism [which fostered >deconstruction].) >"Meaning" is a liminal phenomenon. It has a betwixt and between >quality (this should be clear to anyone familiar with Saussure's >work on semiotics). UFOs likewise are strongly liminal, and they >share many of the properties of "meaning." UFOs subvert the >internal-external, fact-fiction, subjective-objective, heaven- >earth, human-divine, unconscious-conscious, and word-referent >binary oppositions (to name just a few). I keep asking, and waiting, for any of you who spout this gobbledegook to explain your epistemology, if you have any. Literary commentary is a source of ultimate truth? Does it tell you how to make practical decisions in the real world? Or do you secretly use (that old bugaboo) factually based logical reasoning to make decisions? >Those who denounce Colin Bennett's approach are woefully >ignorant. Oh, really? There is a massive amount of pertinent theory >supporting his approach. Ufologists are welcome to ignore that >work, but if they do, they should not be surprised at their >reception in intellectual circles. Their sneers at Derrida are >only too telling. "Theories" are a part of scientific method, not of tea-leaf reading. How did they sneak into this discussion in which science is passe? -- Dick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 17 Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Houran From: Jim Houran <JHouran@siumed.edu> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 14:07:32 -0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 18:49:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Houran >From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 09:37:16 -0800 >Subject: Validating The Ramey Memo [was: Spielberg's Take on Taken] Hello, List I respectfully disagree with David Rudiak's suggestion that the triangulated approach (with experimentally naive analysts) to deciphering the "Ramey Memo" is guaranteed to fail. In fact, I strongly argue that such a method is the only one that can realistically succeed in resolving the text of the Ramey Memo. Despite what Rudiak believes, Randle and I showed empirically that what people from the general population see in the memo is due in part to priming and their level of tolerance of ambiguity (i.e., the degree to which they are "black and white" thinkers). We addressed virtually all of the criticisms he raised here on the List in the original article, and I urge interested readers to read it. The simple point is that the problem of the Ramey Memo is not akin to a crossword puzzle and to proceed as though it is, in my opinion, misguided and unproductive. Either text can be read by experimentally-naive analysts with state-of-the- art methods or it cannot. If you need a context to fill in the blanks of text, then that text is, _by_definition_, ambiguous and subsequently unreliable. Many experts attest to Rudiak's point that humans are currently better at pattern recognition than computers. Of course, studies on eyewitness testimony and pattern recognition show that humans generally see what the prevailing context dictates they should see. The protocol Randle and I proposed actually entails the use of both computer and human pattern recognition - the major advantage being that the humans doing the pattern recognition are blind to _any_ confounding context associated with the document but who have the technical/scientific expertise to conduct state-of-the-art analyses on it (similar to the work on the Dead Sea Scrolls). Methodological approaches such as debated here, including peer- review, are serious issues that should be debated in professional forums if they are to have substantial impact. Therefore, I invite David Rudiak to prepare a detailed 'Letter to the Editor' of the Journal of Scientific Exploration in response to my article with Randle regarding its conclusions and recommendations for future research. My interest in the Ramey Memo has not ceased with the publication of our paper. If anything, my interest in this problem has increased. David Rudiak deserves the field's respect for the amount of time and effort he has invested in supplying his solution to the Memo. Now, independent replication and hence validation for that solution is needed. I am committed to making sure that endeavor happens. James Houran Instructor of Clinical Psychiatry SIU School of Medicine Department of Psychiatry 901 West Jefferson P.O. Box 19642 Springfield, IL 62794 phone: (217) 545-8251 fax: (217) 545-2275
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 17 Re: Corso - Maccabee From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 15:19:06 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 18:53:42 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Maccabee >From: Colin Bennett <sharkley@panzerben.fsworld.co.uk> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 23:43:30 -0000 >Subject: Re: Corso >Why do people write about Corso in such flat uninspired tones? >Most contributions sound like manic-depressive driving >instructors discussing their mortgage payments and ingrowing >toenails. Has no-one ever seen the The Day After Roswell as >Literature, symbol, art form? Has no one seen it indeed as one >of the most exciting UFO books ever written and one that puts >more sober, dull and pedestrian tomes to shame? Has not anyone >anything to say about the narrative, the colour, the characters, >the themes? As far as a qualitative assessment of the book goes, >it is discussed as if it were a dead cat wrapped in a rag. Corso as great literature. <ROFLMAO> There is only one big reason ufologists were interested in Corso: he claimed to have the proof. When that claim was found to have the solidity of a Swiss cheese the interest waned. If Corso had claimed his book was a novel, it would have received a different treatment... and it wouldn't have sold as well as it did.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 17 Re: Corso - Straight From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 15:46:03 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 18:55:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Straight >From: George Hansen <gphansen2001@yahoo.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 19:36:41 -0800 (PST) >Subject: Re: Corso >Judging from some of the comments on Colin Bennett's posts, I >gather that many ufologists do not appreciate just how pertinent >postmodern and deconstructionist theory is for ufology. Interesting. As a Ph.D. who spent a great deal of my time working with deconstruction, I found it to be an ultimately rather facile and futile dead end - an interesting novelty but somewhat of the 'stage magic' school of philosophy: dazzling, until you know how the trick is done. See it once, you are amazed. But twice is more than enough. To learn how easy it is to deconstruct things and amaze your friends (and be a hit at every party), see the following link: http://www.sou.edu/English/Hedges/Sodashop/RCenter/Theory/Howto/decon.htm Brian
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 17 Re: Washington Post Articles Of Interest - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 18:25:12 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 18:58:18 -0500 Subject: Re: Washington Post Articles Of Interest - Ledger >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 09:12:53 -0500 >Subject: Washington Post Articles Of Interest >The Washington Post has published a couple of articles of interest: >The Man who has the Fringe Tied up in Knots >By Don Oldenburg >Washington Post Staff Writer >Friday, January 17, 2003; Page C01 >http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A4092-2003Jan16.html >and >The Leader of UFO Land >His Holiness Rael Explains the Origins Of Life on Earth. Except >for That Clone. >By DeNeen L. Brown >Washington Post Foreign Service >Friday, January 17, 2003; Page C01 >http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A4047-2003Jan16.html Let me get this right. We're tied up in knots. Not the press who have been bashing away at this since the Raelians came out with the "cloning" story. Has this reporter got an email? Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 17 CCCRN News: 'Snow Circle' & Report Archives Update From: Paul Anderson <psa@look.ca> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 15:29:35 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 19:00:10 -0500 Subject: CCCRN News: 'Snow Circle' & Report Archives Update CCCRN NEWS The E-News Service of the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada January 17, 2003 _____________________________ 'Snow Circle' - Caledon East, Ontario Circle in canola (oil-seed rape, to be confirmed); approximately 9 metres (30 feet) to 12 metres (40 feet) diameter. In a dip in the middle of the field about 60 metres (200 feet) from edge of the field; while found January 9, 2003, it is probably a previously unreported formation from summer or fall in 2002 as it is in a harvested field which would have been cut by last fall, but now is filled in with fallen snow making it more visible (the location would have made it more difficult to see in the previous fully grown crop at the time). A few stalks are also visible sticking up through the snow inside the circle. Unless further evidence indicates otherwise it will be classified as a 2002 formation. Some initial photos are posted on the web site, thanks to Matt Rock and Joanna Emery of CCCRN Ontario for reporting and assisting with this case. Further details pending. This is the 21st known formation in 2002. http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada/circlescanada02.html Report Archives Update The online Crop Circles in Canada report archives on the web site have been modified and updated again, now including all currently known reports from early 1940s to 2002, 245 reports altogether! http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada/circlescanada.html ____________________________ Want more? Subscribe to The Prairie Circular, the quarterly print newsletter of CCCRN and keep informed with the latest news, updates, articles, reviews and complete crop circle coverage from the Canadian prairies and across the country... only from CCCRN! http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada/theprairiecircular.html ____________________________ CCCRN News is the e-news service of the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, providing e-mail updates with the latest news and reports on the crop circle phenomenon in Canada, as well as other information on CCCRN-related projects and events, sent free to your e-mail. To subscribe, send an e-mail with Subscribe CCCRN News in the subject line to: cccrnnews@look.ca The Canadian Crop Circle Research Network is a non-profit research organization which has been seriously investigating and documenting the crop circle phenomenon and other possibly related phenomena in Canada since 1995, creating a liason between researchers, farmers, the public, the media and scientists. Main Office 202 - 325 East 14th Avenue Vancouver, BC V5T 2M9 Canada Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522 Cell: 604.727.1454 E-Mail: cccrn@look.ca Web: http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada =A9 Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, 2003
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 18 The NIDS-FAA UFOdata Compact From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 21:03:25 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 14:27:30 -0500 Subject: The NIDS-FAA UFOdata Compact The NIDS-FAA UFOdata Compact: Not-So-Strange Bedfellows by Larry W. Bryant "Imagine what our government officials would learn about UFO reality were they to read their own UFO-related documentation." - Larry W. Bryant Not known for their speedy processing of freedom-of-information requests, the FOIA managers at the U. S. Federal Aviation Administration thus failed to surprise me with their tardy, skimpy package of records sent to me on Jan. 18, 2002, in response to my FOIA request of Sept. 11, 2001. (Likewise, have I waited too long in getting around to this analysis of them?) At any rate, here's what their transmittal letter tells us: "Your request sought information concerning the National Institute for Discovery Science (NIDS) contract with the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA). The [letter] also requests all FAA generated and FAA received records pertaining to our agency's coordination, decisionmaking, and implementing process that led to the selection of NIDS as the single point of contact for gathering UFO encounter information. "Enclosed are the requested documents. To date, the FAA has not processed any reports to forward to NIDS. There are no fees associated with this request because the cost to process was under $10." The above reply bears the signature of one Michael A. Cirillo, program director for air traffic planning and procedures. He encloses four items: "Mr. Robert T. Bigelow letter dated December 22, 1999; FAA letter dated March 6, 2000; FAA letter: ATP-200 Alton Scott to Mr. Bigelow; publication change sheet: FAA Order 7110.65 (Air Traffic Control); FAA Order 7210.3 (Facility Operation and Administration); and Aeronautical Information Manual." Bigelow, of course, happens to be the NIDS founding director, based in Las Vegas http://www.nidsci.org The closing words of his letter to the FAA administrator epitomize the symbiosis sought by his formal proposal to have his privately funded organization recognized as the FAA "single point of contact for UFO research." "We are aware that Congressional hearings (not yet announced) may be held on the UFO topic in the next few months. One of the subjects to be addressed will be aerial encounters. We are offering to provide a heads-up. "The Government officially stopped taking reports of UFOs in 1969 following release of the Condon Committee Report. Still, credible observations have continued. A few pilots and many other people have called FAA to report their sightings. Additionally, there is multisensor data supporting some cases. Currently there is no scientifically acceptable place to report these incidents. We want to be that place and would appreciate the opportunity to discuss a no-cost proposal. All that we are asking for is to be advised when an incident is reported to the FAA. "Thank you for your consideration of this most serious offer to be of service." Bigelow's letter encloses a two-page background sheet, which (teasingly) concludes with this insightful, behind-the-scenes perspective: "The next step may be, is for us to come to Washington and hold discussions with Associate Administrator Steven Brown and any other FAA staff members deemed appropriate. We would like to provide a briefing that covers the following: * The historical basis surrounding the UFO phenomena as it related to aviation. * The reasons for vast differences between a substantial majority of the American public who believe UFOs are real and the opinion of the scientific community. * The results of previous studies including hard, multisensory evidence and veridical testimony of highly qualified witnesses. * The current situation regarding aerial encounters with unknown objects. * How reports of sightings are currently handled. * Why there is no Governmental agency formally tasked to respond to sightings. * Why a civilian organization should be willing and able to accept responsibility for research effort. * How NIDS functions and what we propose to do for the FAA. * The scientific and investigatory resources available and their application to this research effort. * How we anticipate the Congressional Hearings by the House Subcommittee on Space and Aeronautics will unfold next spring. * The relationship of NIDS to those hearings. * Why the FAA would want to understand how those hearings might impact their agency." Assuming that the above-cited NIDS "briefing" actually occurred, there's no record of it (handouts/charts/audio tapes/graphics) within the FAA-released material. We know, of course, that the touted congressional hearings have failed to materialize. But how many of us even have suspected that the subcommittee had been on the verge of holding them? And what, precisely, was the NIDS role in trying to facilitate them? What (and/or who) has caused their postponement or cancellation? Too bad that the FOIA doesn't apply to congressional entities/records! Another two-page NIDS enclosure presents "Examples of Cases Involving UFO Encounters with Aircraft." Some of a few thousand such reports, the enclosure points out, "include electromagnetic interference with navigational equipment, communications equipment, and airborne radar. That certainly constitutes a safety hazard." Bigelow's first enclosure uses the following pitch to make his case for FAA favoritism: "As a research organization, NIDS wants to be able to investigate cases while they are as fresh as possible and not contaminated. What we are offering is very straightforward. If the FAA were to provide us timely information about sightings of aeria phenomena, we will do the following: 1. Follow up on all incidents that are referred to NIDS. 2. Provide confidentiality to all involved, including witnesses and administrators. 3. Conduct rigorous scientific investigations of cases that have sufficient evidence to merit commitment of resources. 4. Provide the FAA reports of our investigations and findings. 5. As appropriate, provide those witnesses involved in the sighting with information that can be validated." Notice that whoever compiled that list of promised NIDS actions failed to add an all-important sixth one: Keep the general public promptly and fully informed of all NIDS-FAA activity as regards case investigations, findings, conclusions, and recommendations. The FAA acceptance letter to Bigelow of March 6, 2000, offers this perspective: "Administrator Garvey has asked me to respond to your letter concerning aerial phenomena and your request for your institution to be the scientifically acceptable place for reporting incidents. "Federal Aviation Administration Order 8020.11A (dated August 2, 1991), Aircraft Accident and Incident Notification, Investigation, and Reporting - paragraph 87(e) - states: 'When AT receives a report of a UFO, refer the individual to the nearest scientific establishment or institution of higher learning that has expressed interest in such reports. If concern is expressed that life or property might be endangered, refer the individual to the local police department.' We believe your institute may fall into this category and we have enclosed a copy of this order for your review. Representatives from my staff would like to meet with you and your organization to discuss the agenda included in your letter. For an appointment, please contact Mr. Alton Scott, Manager, Special Operations Division, ATP-200, at (202) 267-7682. If we can be of further assistance, please let us know." Apparently, the ensuing meeting of April 14, 2000, resulted in the FAA decision to issue, effective July 12, 2001, the three document changes - each of which would contain the following wording: "Unidentified Flying Object (UFO) Reports: Persons observing UFO activity should contact the National Institute for Discovery Science (NIDS) via the following methods: (702) 798-1700 (Voice); (702) 798-1970 (Facsimile); http://www.nidsci.org NIDS will have a series of questions (verbal and/or questionnaire) to learn more about the events. NOTE: NIDS is the single point of contact recognized by the FAA in regard to UFO information. They will maintain a national database on anomalous phenomena and periodically share that information with the FAA. If concern is expressed that life or property might be endangered, also refer the individual to the local police department." That, more or less, would be the end of the NIDS-FAA story had I not received a phone call from a NIDS official shortly after he'd been informed (by some discomfited FAA contact) that I was prying a bit too deep with my FOIA probe. Let's name him "Dr. J. B. Nidster." During the 40-minute conversation that fall of 2001, Nidster chastised my daring to put the FAA community on the spot as to how much UFOinfo they've been sharing, to date, with the Institute. One or more of his (unnamed) FAA contacts, he said, had made it plain to him their reluctance to fulfill their part of the bargain if the likes of Larry W. Bryant were to keep injecting FOIA requests into the deal. This repercussion poses two key points: (1) Nowhere does the U. S. Freedom of Information Act authorize agencies to retaliate, in any way (either directly or indirectly), against requesters. Indeed, such reprehensible conduct on the part of any public official would be an anathema to the letter and spirit of the Act. (2) By condoning (or excusing) that conduct, Dr. Nidster has compromised the integrity and credibility of his organization; and that loss raises questions as to how much further the Institute's cozying up to officialdom will extend (and why and at what cost to principle). If those congressional hearings ever do occur in my lifetime, I want them to subpoena from Nidster the names of the FAA officials with whom he has been complicit in trying to punish or thwart the (FOIA) messenger of bad news.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 18 Re: Corso - Tonnies From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 18:29:20 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 14:28:46 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Tonnies >From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 15:46:03 -0500 >Subject: Re: Corso <snip> >To learn how easy it is to deconstruct things and amaze your >friends (and be a hit at every party), see the following link: http://www.sou.edu/English/Hedges/Sodashop/RCenter/Theory/Howto/decon.htm To see an example of deliberately meamingless pomo, see this "art" review: http://www.mactonnies.com/styro.html ===== Mac Tonnies macbot@yahoo.com Transcelestial Ontology, Theoretical Ufology and Postmillennial Studies http://www.mactonnies.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 18 Re: Washington Post Articles Of Interest - Kaeser From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 22:01:04 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 14:30:24 -0500 Subject: Re: Washington Post Articles Of Interest - Kaeser >From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 18:25:12 -0400 >Subject: Re: Washington Post Articles Of Interest >>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 09:12:53 -0500 >>Subject: Washington Post Articles Of Interest >>The Washington Post has published a couple of articles of interest: >>The Man who has the Fringe Tied up in Knots >>By Don Oldenburg >>Washington Post Staff Writer >>Friday, January 17, 2003; Page C01 >>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A4092-2003Jan16.html <snip> >Let me get this right. We're tied up in knots. Not the press who >have been bashing away at this since the Raelians came out with >the "cloning" story. Has this reporter got an email? >Don Ledger Hi Don- Actually, this guy did some homework and some of us are fairly pleased that the Post isn't simply writing the entire genre off as kooks and nuts. I know that he spoke with Don Berliner (Chairman of the Fund) for quite a while and apparently asked all the right questions. I would certainly agree that the Raelian/Cloning story has gotten far more press coverage than it deserves. But I guess it sells newspapers, and that's the key to good coverage. Oldenburg does have an email address, but I don't know if he'll respond. Don Oldenburg: oldenburgd@washpost.com Style staff writer/consumer advocacy columnist Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 18 UFO Hunter Seeks Reports Of Sightings In Wales From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 07:04:49 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 14:47:12 -0500 Subject: UFO Hunter Seeks Reports Of Sightings In Wales Source: The Western Mail - Cardiff, Wales http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0200wales/page.cfm?objectid=12547339&met hod=full&siteid=50082 Stig *** UFO hunter seeks reports of sightings in Wales Jan 18 2003 The Western Mail - The National Newspaper Of Wales ** A top UFO hunter in Britain has turned his sights to Wales and is appealing for help in his research. Phil Hoyle, of the UFO Investigations and Research Unit, has been investigating reports of UFO sightings for 20 years and wants to hear from anyone who has seen anything strange in the night, or even daytime, sky. Wales has a rich "history" of UFO sightings, from the Roswell- type alleged crash of a flying saucer in the Berwyn Mountains in January 1974 to the more recent sighting by scores of people of two unknown objects flying over Swansea and the Gower in 1998. Pembrokeshire, in particular, is considered a UFO hot spot with a rash of strange sightings in the mid-to-late 1970s. Although a Milford Haven businessmen, Glyn Edwards, has since admitted to taking a stroll in a silver suit at the time, many strange sightings are still unexplained, including a saucer- shaped object hovering near a school at Broad Haven. Since the heady days of the mid-to-late 1970s, Pembrokeshire sightings, which some believe are linked to top secret defence bases in the county, has declined - as, of course, has its military role. However, only a few years ago in 1997 there were several sightings of a mysterious triangular craft and unexplained balls of light over Cardigan Bay. Mr Hoyle, who holidays regularly in Pembrokeshire, is convinced that there is something out there and that governments know all about it. He had his own UFO experience one evening while staying at Haroldston Wood in March 2000, when he and his wife saw a bright light about the same size and luminosity of the star Sirius moving slowly across the sky from west to east. "I looked at the object through my binoculars and I could see a bright white sphere; then suddenly a small red object shot out of the bottom left-hand side of the white sphere," he said. "The sphere carried on slowly towards Haverfordwest and disappeared below the horizon, but the red small object seemed to stay in the same place as it was ejected from. The small object darted horizontally over an approximate distance of 500 feet; it moved in a zig-zag erratic manner from left to right." He said too many people had similar experiences of UFOs and alien encounters for them to be dismissed out of hand. "There's a lot of things happening but they do need to be looked at scientifically," he said. "The powers that be are well aware that there is something out there. They also know that they have a technology beyond what we can only dream of." Retired vet Randall Jones Pugh, who wrote a book called The Dyfed Enigma about the Pembrokeshire sightings of the 1970s, said he too was convinced of the existence of UFOs. "Apart from the human factor you also have to take the experience of animals into account," he said. "Such things induce great terror among animals so it's not just a question of hallucinations or imagination. It's a phenomenon." But Martin Griffiths, senior lecturer in earth and space sciences at the University of Glamorgan, dismissed the UFO business as a modern mythology created by the media, which did not stand up to rigorous scientific scrutiny. "It's full of vivid imagery and imagination, and there's nothing wrong in that, but when we want to do scientific tests on these things there's nothing behind them," he said. "They can be explained away very easily in most cases. "Whereas people in the past believed in angels they have passed into beings from another planet." He said it was no coincidence that 89.6% of all sightings in the United States took place in close proximity to airbases. "There may be something going on, but it's human rather than alien," he said. The famous Pembrokeshire sighting took place in February 1977, when 14 pupils at a Broad Haven primary school claimed to have seen a cigar-shaped spaceship land in a field next to their playground just after lunch time. Some of the children even claimed to have seen spacemen around the aircraft dressed in silvery grey. When the headmaster asked them to draw what they had seen, he was astonished to find that the drawings were almost identical. Further sightings in the county of glowing lights and spacemen poured in over the following months. If any one has had strange sightings or encounters they can write to Mr Hoyle at PO Box 11, Shrews-bury, Shropshire, SY1 1WD. ** Copyright and Trade Mark Notice Copyright owned by or licensed to Trinity Mirror Plc 2003 icWalesTM is a trade mark of Trinity Mirror Plc.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 18 'Alien Odyssey' by John Maloney [Review] From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 22:15:18 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 14:48:07 -0500 Subject: 'Alien Odyssey' by John Maloney [Review] ALIEN ODYSSEY John Meloney review by Mac Tonnies Meloney's self-published memoir is a succinct look at alleged "chanelled" alien communications as experienced by Meloney and his late wife. Within a field that has been relentlessly marginalized by the mainstream scientific establishment, the implications of "chanelling" have been neatly brushed aside by the ufological majority. Thus commentary on perceived "channeled" communications are generally dismissed more vigorously than the numerous "contactee" tales of the likes of George Adamski and Daniel Fry. Meloney's "Alien Odyssey" offers us a personal glimpse of the phenomenon that, while shedding no real insight on its reality, reveals its human dynamic with evident sincerity. To order a copy, email Meloney at betsyross@fcgnetworks.net. For more UFO titles, see: http://www.mactonnies.com/ufobooks.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 18 BBC On SOHO UFO Images From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 09:03:03 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 14:52:38 -0500 Subject: BBC On SOHO UFO Images Source: BBC Online http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/2662059.stm Stig *** Wednesday, 15 January, 2003, 20:25 GMT 'Proof of aliens' goes on show ** A series of images of flying saucers which are claimed to be proof of alien life are to be shown at the National Space Centre. Hundreds of the objects were captured on film by the Solar and Heliospheric Observatory (Soho), a spacecraft 1,000,000 miles from Earth observing the sun. The glowing, saucer-shaped "craft" were said to be moving in a way that suggested intelligent control. Nasa originally dismissed the images as being the result of a camera fault or as comets or asteroids and is now refusing to comment on them. 'Flying saucers' b But UFO investigators are convinced they are spacecraft flown by aliens. Mike Murray, 54, a founder of the UFO group Euroseti, which is holding the exhibition at the space centre in Leicester, said: "Some of the pictures are real crackers. "They are the archetypal flying saucers - disc-shaped objects with some kind of glow around them. "Many have a pulsing light and leave a trail behind them. "They come from all angles and directions. "There's one especially which is really fabulous. It is a glowing disc with a pink disc-shaped object within the glow, and a turret on the top. Giant dish "I think it's absolutely irrefutable that this couldn't be anything other than a machine. "It's an astonishing picture." Mr Murray obtained the images from a Spanish businessmen who picked them up from Soho using a giant satellite dish at his home outside Barcelona. Over the past two years, he has collected about 700 of the pictures. Mr Murray said: "The first thing we did when we got the images was to speak to Nasa, who said it was a camera fault. Independent movement "But by enhancing the images we proved this wasn't the case." He said Nasa then suggested the objects could be asteroids or comets - but this did not explain the way they appeared to move independently and make turns. The images will be screened at the National Space Centre on the evenings of 24, 25 and 26 January. Mr Murray asked people not to call the space centre for details of the exhibition. ** Copyright MMIII
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 18 BBC Shows Seven NASA SOHO UFO Images From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 09:04:30 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 14:53:39 -0500 Subject: BBC Shows Seven NASA SOHO UFO Images Source: BBC, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/2662787.stm The seventh image can be seen, if you go to the page and click on the link to the main story. Stig *** Wednesday, 15 January, 2003, 20:00 GMT In pictures: Have the aliens landed? ** A series of images which it is claimed prove the existence of aliens is going on show at Leicester's National Space Centre. They are said to have been taken by a Nasa spaceship which is 1,000,000 miles from Earth. Mike Murray, a UFO enthusiast who is putting on the show warned people not to contact the centre as it has been inundated with interest. Here BBC News Online reveals why UFO spotters believe aliens have landed. ** Copyright MMIII
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 18 Sonic Boom Still Puzzles Officials From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 08:34:57 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 14:56:05 -0500 Subject: Sonic Boom Still Puzzles Officials Source: The Pensacola News Journal, Pensacola, Florida http://www.pensacolanewsjournal.com/news/011503/Local/ST002.shtml Stig *** January 15, 2003 Likely sonic boom still puzzles officials Fourth such mysterious tremor since 1989 rattles region Scott Streater @PensacolaNewsJournal.com ** The large boom that shook walls and windows from Century to Milton on Monday remains a mystery - and probably will stay that way. The issue remained a hot topic Tuesday among those who heard their windows rattle and saw desktop computers bobble like apples in a barrel of water. One woman in Bratt on Escambia County's north end said she lay on her bed in amazement as the ground moved like a wave, jostling her bed up and down. "I kept rocking like I was on the water," said Annie Lawson, 78. What could cause such a powerful event? The most likely scenario: a sonic boom, probably from a military aircraft or a missile traveling beyond the 750 mph sound barrier, experts said. Almost everyone contacted Tuesday believed this to be the case - even Joan Scott, who claims she was abducted in Gulf Breeze last year by extraterrestrials. Gulf Breeze is one of the hot spots in the nation for UFO hunters. "I don't think this had anything to do with UFOs," she said. "I think it was the military. There's a lot they don't tell us." Eglin Air Force Base officials insist they had no aircraft in operation that could produce a sonic boom at the time of the event, which occured shortly before 3 p.m. Monday. In addition, the base was not testing any weapons at the time of the incident, said base spokeswoman Lois Walsh. The same holds true for Pensacola Naval Air Station. "It wasn't us," said Pat Nichols, an NAS spokesman. The best that scientists, government regulators and local leaders could do Tuesday to solve the mystery was chronicle what almost certainly did not cause the boom: It wasn't an earthquake. No seismic activity was recorded in the region Monday by the U.S. Geological Survey's National Earthquake Information Center in Golden, Colo., said Waverly Person, a geophysicist. "If it was an earthquake that affected two counties, it would show up on the seismic graphs," said Martin Chapman, a seismologist at Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University. It wasn't a meteor. No one reported seeing a meteor streaking across the sky. You would have seen it if there were a meteor nearby capable of a sonic boom the size of the one that residents claim to have heard Monday. "If there's a meteor large enough to cause a sonic boom, it's going to be front- page news across the southeast," Chapman said. It wasn't an industrial explosion. Area industries and the Florida Department of Environmental Protection, which regulates them, say there were no explosions at any area plant. "There was absolutely nothing going on here that would cause that," said Don Emert, manager of the Air Products & Chemicals Inc. plant in Pace. Monday's mysterious boom was not the first time the local community has been left baffled by a large noise or tremor that had the power to shake walls and windows. Between November 1989 and November 1991, there were at least three "unknown tremors" that shook the ground. None was ever explained. A November 1989 tremor that was confined to central Pensacola shook windows and baffled scientists. Two months later, in January 1990, a large tremor that could be felt from Pace to Mobile knocked washing machines off balance and shook windows. But again, no one ever figured out what it was. Nearly two years later, in November 1991, a third tremor shook the region from Perdido Key to Mobile. An earthquake did hit southwest Alabama in October 1997, measuring 4.9 in magnitude, which could be felt as far away as Milton. There were no injuries, and no property was damaged in Northwest Florida. But earthquakes in this region are extremely rare, experts say. In fact, Florida has recorded the fewest number of earthquakes in the United States in the last 200 years, said Chapman, the Virginia Polytechnic seismologist. "We have had things like this in the past that we could not explain," said Janice Kilgore, Escambia County's director of public safety. "Normally, we usually find out from the military that they're running some maneuver, and that answers the question." There are no plans to investigate the issue further. "There's not a lot to work with," said Rhonda Ray, a spokeswoman with the Escambia County Sheriff's Office. "It's just basically a mystery." Whatever the cause, it had a great impact on area residents such as Barbara Heindl. She was standing in her kitchen, near Pensacola Regional Airport, when she heard what she thought was thunder slowly grow louder and louder. "It just never stopped," said Heindl, 68. "I wasn't panicked, but I thought, 'My God, what is this?' I thought a plane had crashed. I went out the back door, nothing. I went out the front door, nothing. "It was really something," she said. "I just can't get over it." ** Copyright 1997-2003 The Pensacola News Journal, Pensacola, Florida.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 18 CI: Naturally Occurring Arctic Circles & Martian From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 23:30:44 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 14:57:23 -0500 Subject: CI: Naturally Occurring Arctic Circles & Martian Cydonian Imperative 1-18-03 Naturally Occurring Arctic Circles and Martian "Grids" by Mac Tonnies Note: Heavily illustrated! See: http://www.mactonnies.com/cydonia.html Extensively geometric stone circles found in the Arctic have puzzled geologists for years. New research explains their formation and suggests that some of the peculiar city-like "grids" on Mars may also be naturally occurring phenomena. [image] Surface view of artificial-seeming stone circles. Mark Kessler of the Earth Sciences Department at the University of California attributes the unusual features to a geological feedback process involving cyclic freezing and "lateral sorting." Interestingly, the primary process involves "frost heave," in which fine soil (similar to Martian dust?) expands when frozen. The discovery of massive amounts of frozen water on Mars implies that Martian "grids" may owe their existence not to alien architects, but a dynamic process of cyclically thawing and freezing ice: a model almost as dangerous to NASA/JPL's "dead" view of the Red Planet as the prospect of intelligent life. [image] Converging water flows on Mars indicate a dynamic subsurface environment. Image courtesy Efrain Palmero. While by no means proven, the expansive grid formation discovered by Keith Laney (below) may be the result of a novel form of cyclic freezing and the "lateral sorting" posited by Kessler. [image] Anomolous Martian grid. Note conspicuous shallow (?) "perforation." Image courtesy Keith Laney. The unusual "lizardskin" terrain pictured below may be another example of subsurface hydrological processes. The various rectilinear formations may likewise be exotic natural features, although this is by no means certain. Extensive study is needed in order to determine if the Arctic circles share a similar origin to their Martian counterparts. [image] Circular "cells"... [image] City-like terrain... Special thanks to James W. Johnston and John Shirley. -end-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 18 Disclosure Project Sends Letter To Congress From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 09:33:48 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 14:59:50 -0500 Subject: Disclosure Project Sends Letter To Congress Source: The American Reporter Vol. 9, No. 2015 - January 10, 2003, http://www.american-reporter.com/2015/61.html Stig *** To The Editor TIME TO STOP LYING ABOUT UFOs? by Lance Cassino American Reporter Reader Conifer, Colo. CONIFER,Colo.-- The following letter is being sent to all members of Congress. We need Senators and Representatives as patriotic and brave as all of the military and civilian men and women who spoke about their experiences with UFOs at Project Disclosure's Washington, D.C., National Press Club press conference on Wednesday May 9, 2001 (and those supporting them in making it happen). They, led by emergency room physician Dr. Steven Greer, are trying to do what you and other Senators and Representatives have not done: your job in protecting our rights granted in the Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution. Please stop lying to each other and the world. We know better. We know the truth is being denied. How much longer can we be led by those that lie about the biggest story in mankind's history? Especially when we have solutions, in hangars around the world, to our energy, environmental, and economic problems go away! All you need to do is to spend 2 1/2 hours of due diligence in listening to this archived press conference at: http//www.disclosureproject.org For more information, go to http://www.cseti.org. Lance Cassino Conifer, Colo. via Internet ** Copyright 2003 Joe Shea The American Reporter. All Rights Reserved.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 18 Re: National Review Online On UFO Cults - Brock From: Rod Brock <humble98225@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 00:26:10 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:02:15 -0500 Subject: Re: National Review Online On UFO Cults - Brock >From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 06:18:01 -0800 >Subject: National Review Online On UFO Cults >Hello, all. >This is what we are up against. While funny, idiots like the >ones mentioned in the article are why we struggle against the >tide of Skeptical thought. No wonder when one mentions the >reatlity of UFOs you are thought - delusional. >GT McCoy http://www.nationalreview.com/script/printpage.asp?/stuttaford/stuttaford011703. asp --- Hello to everyone, My first post to the UpDates list after a very long absence. Re: The Lunatic Fringe. While I'm far too jaded now to get incensed about how the Adamskis of the world are making us all look bad, I can still relate to the sense of dismay you feel when faced with such "surface-journalism." On the other hand, it really is old news - the contactees and cultists and hoaxers have haunted "rationalists" everywhere since day one. From Maury Island to Marshall Appellwhite. But this is not precisely what our unenlightened reporter is talking about: he is just trashing the freaks and equating that with ufos/ufology, in general. Instead, he might have taken note of certain thoughtful writings on the subject of cults and contactees, such as Doug Curran's "In Advance of the Landing: Folk Concepts of Outer Space," which retains some measure of objectivity and journalistic integrity by omitting calloused condescension towards the hopelessly starry-eyed, however misguided that class of individuals may be. Even a gloss-over of Korff's incognito excursion into the bizarre world of that one- armed Swiss farmer with the freaky photo album would have helped balance the article out... Really, though, in addition to cults and contactees themselves, superficial mainstream "skeptical" journalism has also haunted ufology since day one. As has sensationalist "pro-ufo" literature. Mr. Stuttaford is merely contributing his piece to the literary dunghill that comprises much of the library of ufology. For some reason I just can't get too excited about it. I guess that's because I've finally realized that pinheads are a dime a dozen, and working up a bitter bile is bad for the digestion. Regards, Rod Brock
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 18 Re: Corso - Hansen From: George Hansen <gphansen2001@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 07:05:28 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:06:24 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Hansen >From: George Hansen <gphansen2001@yahoo.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 19:36:41 -0800 (PST) >Subject: Re: Corso Several people have expressed skepticism regarding my post on deconstruction. They seem puzzled by claims of its applicability to ufology. This is entirely expected and understandable. The problem is not with the commentators in this forum, but rather with how deconstruction is taught and discussed in academe. [Brief aside - There has been some prior recognition that deconstruction should be applied to ufology. Carl Raschke's 1981 article "UFOs: Ultraterrestrial Agents of Cultural Deconstruction" (reprinted in Archaeus 5) is one such example.] Derrida has written a full essay on telepathy and has also commented on ghosts. But he has essentially admitted his befuddlement. Even he has not effectively applied the ideas to the paranormal. The primary difficulty stems from deconstruction's advocates' lack of familiarity with its intellectual antecedents. Deconstruction was a response to structuralism, and one cannot understand deconstruction without structuralism. The leading structuralist was Claude Levi-Strauss, an anthropologist. Scholars of deconstruction now display a collective amnesia regarding their anthropological roots. This is partly because deconstruction found its primary home in the humanities rather than in the social sciences. Levi-Strauss was influenced by Durkheim, and especially by his nephew, Marcel Mauss. Major concerns of Durkheim and Mauss were primitive religion, classification, and magic (i.e., manipulation of paranormal power). [I use the dated word "primitive" because it is the term used in the most important texts on the topic.] Durkheim's theorizing had an acknowledged impact on Saussure. Barthes credited Saussure, but I doubt whether he appreciated Durkheim's influence. Like many during the first two decades of the 20th century, Durkheim and Mauss addressed magic and the irrational. To many scholars of that time, primitives appeared "irrational" and their beliefs "incomprehensible." Those labels applied to the primitives then are identical to the ones used today by opponents of deconstruction. In writings on deconstruction and post-structuralism the concepts of "binary opposition" and "status" are often seen. They are frequently invoked with the words "power" and "hierarchy." These fundamental concepts, though, were developed and explored via the study of primitive religion and ritual-- study of the "irrational" and "incomprehensible." Paralleling the rise of deconstruction in France in the mid 1960s, was some innovative work by British anthropologists Edmund Leach, Rodney Needham, Victor Turner, and Mary Douglas. Their work on liminality and classification made the ideas of French structuralism (and later deconstruction) useful and applicable. (For those of you with a more literary orientation, I recommend Barbara Babcock's later work on the trickster.) Ufology is typified by reversals and blurrings of major cultural binary oppositions. Ufology is a strongly liminal domain. I am fully aware that much of this language and analysis will be unfamiliar to readers in this forum. The concepts have been taught in virtually all universities, though philosophers and literary scholars are unlikely to be familiar with the applications in anthropology and the real world. Deconstruction, like UFOs, is liminal. Primary characteristics of liminality will be observed when processes of deconstruction are engaged in the real world. Twenty two years ago Raschke was right to call UFOs agents of cultural deconstruction. Liminality theory is abstract, but it has considerable explanatory power. Among other things, it explains-- The marginal status of ufology. The transitory nature of the phenomena. Why research funding comes from wealthy individuals, but rarely, if ever, from large bureaucratic organizations. Why UFO cults are far more successfully institutionalized than UFO research organizations. Why fictional movies of ETs can make hundreds of millions of dollars while serious research is given a pittance. George P. Hansen ===== The Trickster and the Paranormal http://www.tricksterbook.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 18 Re: The NIDS-FAA UFOdata Compact - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 19:56:32 +0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 15:08:59 -0500 Subject: Re: The NIDS-FAA UFOdata Compact - Hall >From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net> >To: errol@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 21:03:25 -0500 >Subject: The NIDS-FAA UFOdata Compact >The NIDS-FAA UFOdata Compact: Not-So-Strange Bedfellows >by >Larry W. Bryant >"Imagine what our government officials would learn about UFO >reality were they to read their own UFO-related documentation." >- Larry W. Bryant >Not known for their speedy processing of freedom-of-information >requests, the FOIA managers at the U. S. Federal Aviation >Administration thus failed to surprise me with their tardy, >skimpy package of records sent to me on Jan. 18, 2002, in >response to my FOIA request of Sept. 11, 2001. (Likewise, have I >waited too long in getting around to this analysis of them?) >At any rate, here's what their transmittal letter tells us: <snip> >If those congressional hearings ever do occur in my lifetime, I >want them to subpoena from Nidster the names of the FAA >officials with whom he has been complicit in trying to punish or >thwart the (FOIA) messenger of bad news. Larry, You better get with the program! Don't you realize that we are now in Cold War II, security uber alles, and citizens like us have no right to know what their government is doing? They are only asking you to do your patriotic duty and not ask questions, to trust that they have your best interest at heart and, after all, isn't Bigelow's outfit a corporation? I think Ayn Rand is the vice president. See you in Cuban prison camp. - Dick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 18 Re: BBC On SOHO UFO Images - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 16:37:09 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 16:02:05 -0500 Subject: Re: BBC On SOHO UFO Images - Ledger >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 09:03:03 +0100 >Subject: BBC On NASA UFO Images >Source: BBC Online >http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/2662059.stm >Stig <snip> What does the BBC mean by the caption under the SOHO picture "UFO enthusiasts claim this image was taken by Nasa" Since when was this ever in dispute? Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 18 Re: Cloning Claim Concerns UFO Researchers - From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 12:44:59 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 16:04:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Cloning Claim Concerns UFO Researchers - >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >To: <- UFO UpDates Subscribers -> >Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 16:59:21 -0500 >Subject: UFO UpDate: Cloning Claim Concerns UFO Researchers >Source: Dayton Daily News - Ohio >http://www.activedayton.com/ddn/local/daily/0116ufo.html >01.16.2003 >Cloning Claim Concerns UFO Researchers >Idea that aliens created life is bunk, they say >By Margo Rutledge Kissell >Dayton Daily News >... >Born Claude Vorilhon, Rael is a former French auto-racing >journalist who says that in 1973 a space alien revealed that >extraterrestrials had created life on Earth through genetic >engineering. Timmerman said Rael claims the alien asked him to >establish an embassy to welcome extraterrestrials. >"This is ridiculous," said Timmerman, who sits on the board of >the Chicago-based Center for UFO Studies. "It is important for >all scientists and others to know that this claim is not >supported by the community of serious researchers of the UFO >phenomenon." Timmerman may be correct that it's ridiculous, and then again he might be wrong. That's because it appears he made an unstated assumption. The assumption is that what Rael says about this, which comes from his alleged ET contactor, instead came from Rael's own thoughts. As ufologists, the serious ones shouldn't go around assuming that what all ETs/aliens tell their contactees/abductees is the truth and nothing but the truth. What's scientific about that assumption? And we have no proof that his contacts didn't take place, do we, other than lack of convincing proof? And the latter is fully consistent with the UFO phenomenon as a whole. Thus it would be only another assumption to claim that Rael's contacts didn't take place. On the other hand, if Rael's experiences were genuine, then it's a pretty safe assumption that he would believe what his contactor told him. It isn't ridiculous to many ufologists that ETs may have had a hand in mankind's origins or development, through genetic engineering. The embassy statement does seem ridiculous, but we all know that abductees & contactees have frequently been told things that seem ridiculous. I'm not making any statement here about whether or not Rael's claim of human cloning is valid. Jim Deardorff
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 18 Re: Alien 'Proof' Rejected As Hype - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 17:46:16 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 17:07:24 -0500 Subject: Re: Alien 'Proof' Rejected As Hype - Ledger >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >To: <- UFO UpDates Subscribers -> >Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 17:35:12 -0500 >Subject: Alien 'Proof' Rejected As Hype >Source: The Birmingham Post - UK >http://icbirmingham.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100localnews/page.cfm?objectid=1 2543975&method=full&siteid=50002 >Jan 17 2003 >Alien 'Proof' Rejected As Hype >By Emma Brady >Startling images of an object thought to be a UFO are nothing more than over-exposed pictures of a planet, according to a Birmingham professor. >Pictures beamed back from the Solar and Heliospheric >Observatory (Soho), a satellite monitoring the sun, using >equipment developed by Birmingham University experts were >thought to be proof of alien ships in space. >But Professor George Simnett, head of the university's space >research group, has dismissed the hype surrounding the claims as >"nonsense". Sorry if I'm late catching up on some of these. There are only two planets that I know of between the Earth and the Sun, and it wasn't them. Once outside the the Sun's rim what planets would these be? Professor George Simnett should either prove the planet theory or spare us the off-the-cuff nonsense we are so used to hearing. The same planet showing up on two different satellites in different places? Laziness-pure and simple. Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 19 Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Rudiak From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 02:57:51 -0800 Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 18:56:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Rudiak >From: Jim Houran <JHouran@siumed.edu> >Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 14:07:32 -0600 >Fwd Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 18:49:26 -0500 >Subject: Re: Validating The Ramey Memo >>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 09:37:16 -0800 >>Subject: Validating The Ramey Memo [was: Spielberg's Take on Taken] >Hello, List >I respectfully disagree with David Rudiak's suggestion that the >triangulated approach (with experimentally naive analysts) to >deciphering the "Ramey Memo" is guaranteed to fail. In fact, I >strongly argue that such a method is the only one that can >realistically succeed in resolving the text of the Ramey Memo. >Despite what Rudiak believes, Randle and I showed empirically >that what people from the general population see in the memo is >due in part to priming and their level of tolerance of ambiguity >(i.e., the degree to which they are "black and white" thinkers). >We addressed virtually all of the criticisms he raised here on >the List in the original article, and I urge interested readers >to read it. >The simple point is that the problem of the Ramey Memo is not >akin to a crossword puzzle and to proceed as though it is, in my >opinion, misguided and unproductive. Either text can be read by >experimentally-naive analysts with state-of-the- art methods or >it cannot. If you need a context to fill in the blanks of text, >then that text is, _by_definition_, ambiguous and subsequently >unreliable. I give crossword puzzles as an analogy, because they are a word puzzle that most people are familiar with, although they are not the same task as the Ramey memo. (Primarily, they lack a grammatical and semantic sentence structure.) Are crosswords ambiguous? If done word by word they certainly can be. As we all know, to increase the difficulty, the devious crossword makers often provide extremely enigmatic clues. More than one word can often fit the space depending on how one interprets the clue. This would be an example of "priming" that James Houran mentions. How one interprets the clue affects the guess word. So how does one decide if the word is correct? The only way to judge correctness for ambiguous words is to work the puzzle and see if the words in question are consistent with the cross- words. The cross-words provide the disambiguating context. I often have to go back and change words which I thought to be very good solutions to the clues because further down the line the words start to clash with the other words in the puzzle. That flags that something is wrong somewhere. Similar things happened when I worked the Ramey memo. Words that looked reasonable in isolation didn't make grammatical or semantic sense in the context of words filled in around them. Something was obviously wrong somewhere and changes had to be made. (One point here is that "priming" may affect the initial choice of words, but one isn't permanently locked into such a choice. Persistent working of the puzzle plus logic and analysis eventually reveal that one's initial take was probably wrong and changes can be made. One limitation with the first Houran/Randle study, which they acknowledge, is that the subjects on average spent very little time looking at the Ramey message. They were getting people's initial takes on the words with no opportunity for them to make changes later as inconsistencies or second thoughts cropped up.) Using this crossword analogy, let's go back and look at James Houran's statement: "If you need a context to fill in the blanks of text, then that text is, _by definition_, ambiguous and subsequently unreliable." What's logically wrong with this statement? Yes, it is true that if you need a context then by definition the situation is ambiguous. A blank four-letter word in a crossword without a clue and no cross words has no context and is completely ambiguous, with thousands of possible solutions. But does it logically follow that it is "subsequently unreliable because you require context?" No, absolutely not. On the contrary, context, if it leads to a single solution, can make the situation completely reliable. In a crossword, the clue will often provide enough context for a probable or unique solution (e.g., "The capital of Texas"). And even with an ambiguous or mystifying clue, filling in some of the letters with the cross- words will eventually provide enough context for a unique solution. >Many experts attest to Rudiak's point that humans are currently >better at pattern recognition than computers. Yes, and the primary reasons they are better are: 1) Much greater computing power, but perhaps more importantly 2) Humans apply context to disambiguate situations, particularly their very extensive knowledge of the world that computers do not have. E.g., human speech or handwriting is enormously ambiguous. Any person in artificial intelligence who has studied such problems as computer speech recognition will tell you that simple low- level pattern recognition, such as frequency analysis and phoneme extraction from speech, is by itself entirely inadequate. Humans run words together, speak in different tones, pronounce the same words in different ways depending on accents, or even where a word is in relation to adjacent words, speak at different rates, drop words, insert useless words, speak with a lot of background noise, speak in slang or metaphor, and a thousand other problems that would make a Pentium chip melt down in frustration. But we humans solve these problems with ease every day by applying context. E.g., how do we follow a conversation while eating at a noisy restaurant? Among other things, we may know the person very well and know what they were talking about before we entered the restaurant or during quieter moments in the restaurant. We may be familiar with their speech patterns, their accent, their use of language, their tone of voice, etc. We also know the rules of the language. These all provide context that help us follow the thread of conversation even when we can't necessarily make out all the words individually. James Houran, however, suggests stripping out such context, labeling it "confounding," instead of recognizing it for what it is, namely absolutely necessary knowledge for disambiguating meaning. I find his statement to be stunning, particularly coming from an experimental psychologist who should know better. There must be thousands of articles in the perceptual psychology literature which contradict his entire premise. >Of course, studies >on eyewitness testimony and pattern recognition show that humans >generally see what the prevailing context dictates they should see. This is another startling generalization and oversimplification. (In fact I have often read similar misleading statements from debunkers trying to dismiss the testimony of witnesses to a UFO sighting. The witnesses are seeing only what they want to see.) Certainly context affects our perceptions. Again the perceptual literature is full of such examples. No arguments here. Suppose, e.g., we had the following sentence with the incomplete subject: THE ?OG BIT THE MAN. The solution is ambiguous without further information. However if we provide a context that the sentence is about a mailman delivering the mail, then DOG seems like a good solution. Here we apply hidden human knowledge of the world. We assume a typical scenario of a mail man trying to deliver letters to a home and the protective dog guarding its territory attacks the intruder. That may not be correct, but it's a damn good guess and likely to be correct. However, if the context were about a farmer about to slaughter his livestock, HOG would seem more logical. But if the context was more metaphorical or poetic, such as a piece of literature describing a sailor trying to stay warm, then a word like FOG would work very well. Sometimes context can result in misperceptions or erroneous conclusions. E.g., maybe we made a wrong hidden assumption about the farmer context. The sentence came from a children's book. The farmer's dog was friends with the pig. Thus the dog bit the farmer because he was going to kill his friend. (A more complex and unexpected context) Context provides important information that helps us interpret the ambiguous, but it does not necessarily "dictate" what people "should" see. I might initially misinterpret the meaning of a crossword clue and put in the wrong word (say a verb instead of a noun), but I am not permanently bound to that interpretation and am free to change it when more contextual information becomes available (some letters from cross-words). Generally we do quite well in the real world when we apply context, accurately interpreting what we hear and see far more often than we misinterpret it. >The protocol Randle and I proposed actually entails the use >of both computer and human pattern recognition - the major >advantage being that the humans doing the pattern recognition >are blind to _any_ confounding context associated with the >document In other words, you are proposing exactly what I feared -- a test in which you completely strip out context, thus removing exactly the sort of information that humans need to disambiguate what is there. You may as well strip out most of the cross-words in a crossword puzzle that enable you to double-check word solutions to ambiguous clues for accuracy. Let us take the "victims" word as an example in the Ramey memo. I like to use this example because it so clearly illustrates what is so obviously wrong with your proposal. To see enhanced versions of this word, readers should view the following graphics: www.roswellproof.com/victim_compare.html www.roswellproof.com/critical_phrases.html Now as I often mention, you can do word searches of the English language based on letters you are sure or reasonably sure are there. The problem is there is usually more than one solution, i.e. the solution is usually ambiguous based on letters alone absent context. If I use the search parameters VI??I?S, e.g., there are 8 possible words: VICTIMS, VIOLINS, VIRGINS, VILNIUS, VITRICS, VIROIDS, VIBRIOS, and VILLI'S. (For an extremely valuable word search engine, check out www.onelook.com) Without knowing what the message is about, i.e. keeping readers "blind" to that "confounding context", it isn't possible to settle on any one word. One could closely examine the other letters to try to narrow the choices down. The 6th letter, e.g., is almost certainly either an "M" or an "N". That would eliminate all but the first three words. The fourth letter is impossible to read, which leaves only the 3rd letter. I would judge it an elevated "C", but perhaps it is an incompletely formed "O". That would leave "VICTIMS" and "VIOLINS". But how do you distinguish? Without all that "confounding context", you can't. If you knew the letter was from an orchestral director discussing the orchestra, then one might be inclined to interpret the word as "VIOLINS". But in the proper context, military message about Roswell, the word is definitely not "VIOLINS" but "VICTIMS". You could eliminate the other words above using proper context as well even without looking at the other letters. Contrary to James Houran's statement that if you need context, the result is necessarily unreliable, exactly the opposite is true. Correct application of context can lead to a highly reliable result by removing the ambiguity. No way could VIOLINS or VIRGINS be correct except in the most implausible scenarios. That is the power of context. I repeat, completely removing context is a virtually guaranteed recipe for negative results. >but who have the technical/scientific expertise to >conduct state-of-the-art analyses on it (similar to the work on >the Dead Sea Scrolls). Just enhancing the text with computers or having the computers piece together fragments of the scolls alone won't do the job. Nor will using people who can read ancient Semitic languages but know nothing else. The people who interpret the Dead Sea Scrolls are scholars highly familiar with the history of that area and known succeeding ancient texts from both the old and new Testaments. They can use this expert knowledge to fill in missing, damaged, or indistinct text from the scrolls. Without such knowledge, it would be virtually impossible to do this. In other words, they are applying context to fill in the gaps and make reasonable guesses about the text. Again I am literally stunned when James Houran terms such knowledge and background "confounding context." Normally context is necessary and disambiguating, not "confounding." >Methodological approaches such as debated here, including peer- >review, are serious issues that should be debated in >professional forums if they are to have substantial impact. >Therefore, I invite David Rudiak to prepare a detailed 'Letter >to the Editor' of the Journal of Scientific Exploration in >response to my article with Randle regarding its conclusions and >recommendations for future research. I may just do that, but UFO UpDates has a wide readership, including, I'm sure, some readers and editors of JSE. Issues of protocol and experimental design can be thrashed out here as well, and much more quickly too. (Bernard Haisch, former senior editor, e.g., also has his own Web site to present some of his ideas to the wider public. Not everything has to be filtered through a formalized peer review process first.) >My interest in the Ramey Memo has not ceased with the >publication of our paper. If anything, my interest in this >problem has increased. >David Rudiak deserves the field's respect for the amount of time >and effort he has invested in supplying his solution to the >Memo. Now, independent replication and hence validation for that >solution is needed. I am committed to making sure that endeavor >happens. I appreciate your commitment. But I don't see how much can be replicated under your proposal if the readers are kept completely in the dark, except perhaps a few regions of text that are unusually clear. I hope you think carefully about the points I raised above about the necessity of supplying context and also using people who have background knowledge of the Roswell case. The CIA does not use analysts ignorant of terrorist networks to work on interpreting a noisy cell-phone intercept from a terrorist. Nor do they keep their analysts completely ignorant of the circumstances. I seriously doubt they would omit this on the theory that proper context is confounding or leads to unreliable results. I also suspect the readers in your experiment are likely to get highly frustrated and give up quickly without having any proper guiding context to go on, like in your first study where the groups given no context or a misleading context spent significantly less time than the group given the correct Roswell context. (This was particularly true of the group with no context to work with). I suspect many of us have experienced a similar level of frustration trying to work a crossword puzzle that was much too hard. This is the motivation problem I spoke about in my first post. How do you propose to keep the readers motivated without them knowing exactly what they are trying to accomplish? I would also like some comments about length of time readers will work on this and over what time frame. Will it be the 14 minutes that your average context free reader spent in your first study? Or will readers spend dozens of hours over a period of weeks or months to give them time to grow familiar with the task and carefully mull things over, as I did and no doubt others who have looked seriously at the Ramey memo. Permit me to give another homely crossword example to better illustrate what I think is wrong with your proposal. Last year I was in England and tried my hand at working a British crossword puzzle in a newspaper. You would think this wouldn't be much different than working an American crossword. We nominally speak the same language, right? But aside from the puzzler deliberately making the clues misleading, what really got me were all the cultural references, of which I didn't have a clue. Who were these various British sports stars, pop stars and historical figures? I lacked the background knowledge to properly attack the puzzle. Without that, my motivation quickly waned. I was unable to make any headway with this puzzle and gave up in frustration. Exactly the same thing will probably happen in your proposed study with no guiding context and Roswell-ignorant readers. The readers will manage to get a few of the more obvious words. But with nothing more to go on and nothing to motivate them to persist, they will almost undoubtedly quit in short order, probably after only a few hours. This will result in largely negative results. Does such a negative result mean the Ramey memo necessarily can't be read? No more so than my giving up on the crossword proved that the crossword couldn't be solved. Motivation, persistence, and proper knowledge are enormously important. You can't get very far without them in either situation. David Rudiak
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 19 FOIA Request To USAF HQ - 01-18-03 From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 17:59:20 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 18:59:27 -0500 Subject: FOIA Request To USAF HQ - 01-18-03 To: af.foia@pentagon.af.mil TO: Secretary of the Air Force ATTN: Director of Legislative Liaison The Pentagon Washington, DC 20330-1000 FROM: Larry W. Bryant 3518 Martha Custis Drive Alexandria, VA 22302 DATE: January 18, 2003 It is my understanding that, over the past few years, certain staff members of the U. S. House of Representatives Subcommittee on Space and Aeronautics have contacted U. S. Air Force Headquarters personnel about the subcommittee's plans to hold a series of hearings on the issue of UFO reality and the safety hazard that that reality poses to modern aviation. Accordingly, under terms of the U. S. Freedom of Information Act, I hereby request that you furnish me a copy of all records generated by and received by those contacted USAF HQ personnel in the course of their response to said contact - said records to include correspondence; congressional-inquiry tasking documents; minutes of meetings; memoranda of telephone conversations; e-mail messages; faxed documents and forms; interview transcripts; memoranda for record; document- transmittal slips; constituent inquiries; UFO-coverup- whistleblower statements; UFO-encounter witness affidavits; briefing charts and "talking points" lists; and legal opinions. Since I make this request (1) on behalf of the public's interest in knowing how your agency responds to congressional inquiries/contacts on such a vital public issue as UFO reality, and (2) as a member of the UFO-awareness press - specifically as a columnist for the Internet website of http://www.ufocity.com - I ask that you waive all records-search fees incident to your fulfilling it. Please note that I'm snail-mailing to you a signed printout of this e-formatted letter. LARRY W. BRYANT Director, Washington, D.C., Office of Citizens Against UFO Secrecy Copies furnished to: Mark S. Zaid, Esq. (Washington, D.C.) Peter Robbins, Editor-in-Chief of UFOcity.com Chairman, Subcommittee on Government Information, Management, and Technology, U. S. House of Representatives
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 19 Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer - Speiser From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 17:18:22 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 19:01:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer - Speiser >From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 12:57:32 -0400 >Subject: Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer >>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 17:08:37 -0700 >>Subject: Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer >>>From: Gord Heath <gwheath@shaw.ca> >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 21:15:53 -0800 >>>Subject: Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer >>>I just wished to point out that the contemporary range of the >>cougar or mountain lion does not include Saskatchewan or Manitoba. >>Please refer to: >>>http://members.tripod.com/endangeredtiger/mountainlionmap.JPG >><snip> >>I can't believe we're actually discussing this childish prank. >>Does anyone even timidly suggest that this might be the work of >>an advanced extra-terrestrial species? Why can it NOT be a very >>human practical joke? >On the other hand Jim, I don't see you complaining about the >List discussing Corso ad nausem for weeks now. Well, first of all, I'm learning a great deal from the discussion, although something tells me everything being said is in the archives somewhere... second of all, Corso is at least demonstrably UFO-centric, if not providently so. If we allow a deer on top of a pole to become a UFO issue, I fear we will slip down the slope until anything bizarre becomes fodder for this List. It won't be long before we are discussing whether Elvis was re-animated by saucer beings (Plan 9-E From Outer Space?). ==JJS==
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 19 Re: Corso - Goldstein From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de> Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 01:28:48 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 19:03:42 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Goldstein >From: George Hansen <gphansen2001@yahoo.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 07:05:28 -0800 (PST) >Subject: Corso >>From: George Hansen <gphansen2001@yahoo.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 19:36:41 -0800 (PST) >>Subject: Re: Corso >Several people have expressed skepticism regarding my post on >deconstruction. They seem puzzled by claims of its applicability >to ufology. This is entirely expected and understandable. The >problem is not with the commentators in this forum, but rather >with how deconstruction is taught and discussed in academe. <snip> Hello George, After suffering through the pointless posts trying to defend Corso by the most absurd manner of thought I think we still have not stated what lies behind these issues. There are basic differences in people regarding their boundary spectra of fantasy and fact. There are qualitative psychological tests for such. Fantasy prone people and those using logic, reason and rationality as primary functions think very differently in many areas. These areas overlap in various manners at all times in one person. However, different types of personalities tend to gravitate more towards each end of the spectrum. We had Colon Bennett suddenly pop on to the list as a trickster, bearbaiting Dick Hall and other rational thinkers in Ufology with his egotistical, pompous, pontificating, and denigrating prose that ended up with his declaration of the superiority of deconstruction. Perhaps it would be advisable for Colon Bennett to work with a therapist to deconstruct his personality problems, as he has gone to one extreme and persists in trying to destroy the rest of the spectrum in himself. In my opinion that is a very unbalanced personality. George, I read your post and I have read your website. I think that those who see deconstruction as the be all and end all are engaging in left handed intellectual masturbation. I also see you make the asssumption that the paranormal and the supernatural exists as an entity of its own outside the human brain. You complain that not one university teaches the paranormal. You know that it has not been accepted by mainstream science. You may have authored a few papers published in journals but that proves nothing. It has not passed the muster of real science when they have looked into it. Your site also contains the tone that your ideas are superior because you and other believers have been shunned and that you know better than they do. I would highly recommend that you and all Listerions follow what is being learned in neuroscience. Brain research, especially the recent use of the Functional MRI and the SPECT techniques of precise external live brain mapping has cast light on just how the brain functions in terms of consciousness when in a normal or altered state. It shows the functions of various brain sites and their interrelationships in given situations. That knowledge, combined with current knowledge in psychiatry, gives a much better idea of your areas of interest than the trickster metaphor and postmodern "philosophy". In fact, it also explains why many people on this list think very much the same and also think very differently. I follow UFO research for one primary reason. That is to see what in the field of study can pass the muster of real science. As this list has pointed out there are a number of cases worthy of being professionaly studied. It is a tough job for that to obtain the proper support with the field overcrowded with dubious beliefs, false claims, and believers who are fantasy prone. The credibility and future of UFO research and abduction studies depends on there being enough empirical evidence to professionally prove the case. Anything less is in the grey basket of food for thought and grounds for further research to qualify whether it is fantasy or fact. Usually this list operates in this manner but Bennett perniciously persisted in his tiresome prank beyond reason. George, I suggest that you take a good look at why the paranormal and deconstruction seem so important to you at this time. I hope you are not grasping at straws. Josh
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 19 Re: Cloning Claim Concerns UFO Researchers - From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de> Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 02:34:10 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 19:16:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Cloning Claim Concerns UFO Researchers - >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 12:44:59 -0800 >Subject: Re: Cloning Claim Concerns UFO Researchers >>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>To: <- UFO UpDates Subscribers -> >>Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 16:59:21 -0500 >>Subject: UFO UpDate: Cloning Claim Concerns UFO Researchers >>Source: Dayton Daily News - Ohio >>http://www.activedayton.com/ddn/local/daily/0116ufo.html >>01.16.2003 >>Cloning Claim Concerns UFO Researchers >>Idea that aliens created life is bunk, they say >>By Margo Rutledge Kissell >>Dayton Daily News >>Born Claude Vorilhon, Rael is a former French auto-racing >>journalist who says that in 1973 a space alien revealed that >>extraterrestrials had created life on Earth through genetic >>engineering. Timmerman said Rael claims the alien asked him to >>establish an embassy to welcome extraterrestrials. >>"This is ridiculous," said Timmerman, who sits on the board of >>the Chicago-based Center for UFO Studies. "It is important for >>all scientists and others to know that this claim is not >>supported by the community of serious researchers of the UFO >>phenomenon." Jim, You are a believer. You believe in claims just because the claim sounds possible to you and conforms to your beliefs. Rael's claims are as absurd and unproveable.as those of Billy Meier. Don't you understand that when a person makes a claim they have to prove that it exists outside their brain and mouth? >Timmerman may be correct that it's ridiculous, and then again he >might be wrong. That's because it appears he made an unstated >assumption. The assumption is that what Rael says about this, >which comes from his alleged ET contactor, instead came from >Rael's own thoughts. As ufologists, the serious ones shouldn't >go around assuming that what all ETs/aliens tell their >contactees/abductees is the truth and nothing but the truth. >What's scientific about that assumption? And we have no proof >that his contacts didn't take place, do we, other than lack of >convincing proof? And the latter is fully consistent with the >UFO phenomenon as a whole. Thus it would be only another >assumption to claim that Rael's contacts didn't take place. So, by your standards or lack thereof the claimant does not have to prove the truth of his claims? While I fully sympathize with those people who claim to have been abducted by aliens, nothing has been proven beyond their personal claims. I certainly believe they are sincere in their beliefs, possible factors causing those beliefs have not been fully examined. Dr. Mack, David Jacobs, and Budd Hopkins have committed fatal flaws in procedure, methodology, and objectivity that make their research scientifically unacceptable. Until legitimate research is performed there are no real answers to such claims. As you know, it is improper to claim something is false unless you have legitimate reasons to show that it is false. But to accept that everything an abductee, channeler, visionary, or self appointed "prophet" says is true with no evidence to support such is a lack of critical thought processes. >On the other hand, if Rael's experiences were genuine, then it's >a pretty safe assumption that he would believe what his >contactor told him. It isn't ridiculous to many ufologists that >ETs may have had a hand in mankind's origins or development, >through genetic engineering. >The embassy statement does seem ridiculous, but we all know that >abductees & contactees have frequently been told things that >seem ridiculous. >I'm not making any statement here about whether or not Rael's >claim of human cloning is valid. But since they have not yet proven the cloning claim, it casts all else about Rael in a dubious shadow. Or Jim, have you started to call Rael "your holiness" as he claims? Please don't forget to bow before him and kiss his pinky ring. Josh
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 19 Re: EBE-ET International Bulletin January/February From: Thiago Luiz Ticchetti <thiagolt@opengate.com.br> Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 00:47:58 -0200 Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 19:18:29 -0500 Subject: Re: EBE-ET International Bulletin January/February Hello my friends, We are very happy in finally have published our EBE-ET International Bulletin again. This bulletin will bring to you the best UFO articles published in the UFO Magazine Brazil, and this way leave you always updated with what happens in our country. We hoped you like our work. The bulletin can be downloaded at: www.ebe-et.com.br/ebe_et_ib Thank you very much! Thiago Luiz Ticchetti Vice-presidente EBE-ET/RAB UFO Magazine Brazil International Coordinator www.ebe-et.com.br
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 19 Re: The UFO Hunters - Speiser From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 22:50:32 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 19:25:37 -0500 Subject: Re: The UFO Hunters - Speiser >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>) >To: <- UFO UpDates Subscribers -> >Date: Friday, January 17, 2003 3:41 PM >Subject: UFO UpDate: The UFO Hunters >Source: TechTV - US >http://www.techtv.com/news/culture/story/0,24195,3414589,00.html >The UFO Hunters <snip> >Possible explanation for sightings >The BBDs are also thought to be behind the March 1997 sightings >of strange lights over Phoenix, which were captured by several >television new crews and tracked across the entire desert >Southwest. >These proposed aircraft would be a good candidate for UFO >reports because of their hypothetical quiet propulsion system, >blimplike structure, and advanced stealth capabilities. >Electrochromatic displays are the key. The idea is to project >images of the sky above an aircraft onto the machine's >underbelly. Good lord, don't tell me John Lear was right? He told me about this electrochromatic display system over 12 years ago...I of course thought he had flown one too many missions above 10K without O2.... I have thought for years that BBDs could very well be earthly in origin. I was told by a former Rockwell engineer who had worked on Senior Trend that we had developed the ability to project holographic images into clear air. I conjectured that these craft may in fact only be holograms. Such a thing could be safely tested over civilian areas in order to judge their effectiveness. The same could be said for electrochromatic display, albeit minus the safety factor... ==JJS==
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 19 Proof And Why It Ain't Going To Happen From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 21:51:52 -0800 Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 19:28:13 -0500 Subject: Proof And Why It Ain't Going To Happen Hi folks, I still am unable to repond in a convential manner thanks to my current server whom I am going to sever in a few days. I have to say some things about the current state of affairs in ufology. One, the Raelian thing is a media circus (again, the roar of the greasepaint and the smell of the crowd.) One thing: let's see the Kid, take DNA from her diaper, or whatever, stand and deliver! Two, the circus has expanded to at least five rings. Thanks in part to the Raelian's crap. there may be legitimate Phenomena out there (The Soho pictures may be one example) but who is going to believe that, given the ridicule that has been heaped upon the 'true believers'. I think that even a clear, unequivical, open event, like the Trafalmadorian aerial demonstration team giving a display at Super Bowl halftime, would be debunked, ridiculed, sneered at, and dissed. I would like to see things explained in my lifetime, but I have low confidence. GT McCoy "Not all who wander are lost"- JRR Tolkien
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 19 High Altitude Balloon Launch From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 03:25:30 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 19:30:06 -0500 Subject: High Altitude Balloon Launch Hi Errol, This might result in many UFO reports in the southern hemisphere. The largest ever balloon launch by Goddard out of Alice Springs-Australia. Go to: http://www.gsfc.nasa.gov/topstory/2003/0120uldb.html carries a 6,000 pound payload. Best, Don Ldger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 19 INFORM #1 - UFORM Research Group Newsletter From: Laurel Oplatka <calabash2003@webtv.net> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 23:56:49 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 19:39:03 -0500 Subject: INFORM #1 - UFORM Research Group Newsletter From: Joe McGonagle <joe@mcgonaglenet.freeserve.co.uk> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 18:23:29 -0000 To: Subject: [ufologyinuk] Fw: INFORM - Newsletter of the UFORM Research Group. From: Information <info@pennonline.co.uk> To: <info@pennonline.co.uk> Date: Saturday, January 18, 2003 1:27 PM Subject: INFORM - Newsletter of the UFORM Research Group. Hello Everyone, Here as promised is the first newsletter of the UFORM research group. NEWS UFORM HAVE OBTAINED A FULL SET OF THE MOD RENDLESHAM CASE PAPERS AND WILL BE DISPLAYING THEM AS DIGITAL FILES AT TUESDAY 21st JAN LECTURE. WE HAVE TO SAY, THE CONTENTS ARE DYNAMITE. THE OSI CONFIRMS, REPEAT CONFIRMS THE SIGHTINGS OF ENTITIES. There's been another spate of animal mutilations across the Midlands. Details are sketchy but we'll bring you more as we find out. We have a sneak preview of the EuroSETI UFO images at this months Marcus Allen Lecture. DON'T MISS IT We kick off 2003 with another storming year of Lectures:- January 2003 Tuesday 21st - 8:00pm Lecture: MARCUS ALLEN - The Conspiracy Theory? Editor of NEXUS Magazine, MARCUS ALLEN will endeavour to throw light on some of the worlds most complex topics. Conspiracies abound. We are told only what we need to know by those in power. Did man really walk on the MOON? Are UFOS and ALIENS responsible for CROP CIRCLES and what of the WORLDS HIDDEN HISTORY? An intriguing and informative evening is guaranteed whenever Marcus visits us. Hear the facts and ask the questions. An evening NOT TO BE MISSED! =A33.00 Members =A34.00 Non Members. February 2003 Tuesday 18th - 8:00pm Lecture: ALAN FOSTER - UFO's and Extraterrestrial Phenomenon. Since a UFO encounter in 1973, Alan has been continually studying the UFO and ET Phenomenon, helped by global events this has broadened into deeper recognition, the CROP FORMATION MESSAGES and synchronicities. he feels that we are now in the most important time in the history of the EARTH. With a slide presentation he will discuss all aspects and realize deeper issues and implications. =A33.00 members =A34.00 Non Members. THANKS To Matthew Wilkes for offering help with the website. Matt, we will be in touch. Please come along on Tuesday 21st Jan if you can and introduce yourself. NON UFORM EVENTS UFO's at the National Space Centre. 24th, 25th & 26th Jan at 7:30pm. A presentation of a series of stunning images from NASA have been analyses by EuroSETI and will be on display. Tickets for the event are =A320.00 each. Ticket Hotline: 01733 293720. WE HAVE OBTAINED A CD OF THE IMAGES AND WILL BE PREVIEWING THEM AT OUR JAN 21st LECTURE. NOT TO BE MISSED! >From Chris Martin. You might be interested in attending a skywatch I am organizing at the Andrews family Farm near Kings Lynn in Norfolk on Saturday 1st February 2003. We will be arriving at the Farm at approximately 3pm and depending on the weather, conducting a skywatch throughout the day until late. Please get back to me if you are interested in attending. Chris. See you all at Tuesdays Lecture. Peter Kimberley. IT Director, UFO Research, Midlands.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 19 Re: Corso - Rimmer From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 07:57:45 +0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 19:40:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Rimmer >From: George Hansen <gphansen2001@yahoo.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 07:05:28 -0800 (PST) >Subject: Corso >Liminality theory is abstract, but it has considerable >explanatory power. Among other things, it explains-- >The marginal status of ufology. >The transitory nature of the phenomena. >Why research funding comes from wealthy individuals, but rarely, >if ever, from large bureaucratic organizations. >Why UFO cults are far more successfully institutionalized than >UFO research organizations. >Why fictional movies of ETs can make hundreds of millions of >dollars while serious research is given a pittance. >George P. Hansen Gosh! You mean it's not all a conspiracy by the government and big media, as most people on this list seem to believe, but has to do with the nature of the subject itself? Whatever next! -- John Rimmer Magonia Magazine www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/00/newmag.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 19 Re: An Abduction Checklist - Brock From: Rod Brock <humble98225@yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 00:01:41 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 19:45:06 -0500 Subject: Re: An Abduction Checklist - Brock >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 23:39:16 EST >Subject: Re: An Abduction Checklist >I would point out that the so called benovelant ETs that are >just waiting to show up and save the world will not show up >and save the world from the various wars and destructions that >have happened and will happen. Hello, Robert, Your statement, above, immediately called to mind Jacques Vallee's 'Six Social Consequences of Widespread Belief in UFOs' - 'Messengers of Deception', 1975 - which I have ocassionally brought up on various Lists, although no one has been much interested. For what it's worth, here's consequence #2: "The contactee propaganda undermines the image of human beings as masters of their own destiny... Should we thank the extraterrestrial visitors for teaching us agriculture, the mastery of fire, the wheel, and most of our religious traditions? To anyone who has studied the history of science, such ideas (romantically attractive as they are) appear ill- founded. The best and the worst in human beings have been displayed in all cultures we know. Early cultures were as gifted for fashioning pyramids and building canals as they were skilled at exterminating their enemies, at raping, and at pillaging. Three thousand years later, we are engaging in the same behavior, although we build canals and exterminate enemies 'scientifically'..." (Vallee, "Messengers," p.218) I was raised in a "Christian" religion which maintains that God is going to send his heavenly armies to nip our baser tendencies in the bud. Even as a kid, growing up in the 70s, I remember thinking that this was a pathetic excuse to evade responsibility for our own actions. Why bother? was the unspoken rationale among my pious brethren. God is gonna fix it, anyway. And then everything will be just rosy... Such divine intervention is, of course, just another species of extraterrestrial intervention in the affairs of men. Conversely, the belief that hardware-based extraterrestrials are going to save us from ourselves is the old divine intervention theme, with a techno-twist. Either way, it's a cop-out. Perhaps we should thank Providence that more people don't ascribe to this idea...even though the Raelians seem to have attracted a healthy following, and we know what they think: in the face of the whole of the fossil record, they maintain we were cloned and planted here by a spacefaring race. This calls to mind Vallee's 5th consequence: "Irrational motivations based on faith are spreading hand in hand with the belief in extraterrestrial intervention." Regards, Rod Brock
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 19 Re: Sonic Boom Still Puzzles Officials - Brock From: Rod Brock <humble98225@yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 01:15:30 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 19:48:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Sonic Boom Still Puzzles Officials - Brock >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 08:34:57 +0100 >Subject: Sonic Boom Still Puzzles Officials >Source: The Pensacola News Journal, Pensacola, Florida http://www.pensacolanewsjournal.com/news/011503/Local/ST002.shtml ----- For what it's worth: When I was very young, probably about 4 years of age (1965) I remember a span of time, maybe a couple of weeks, during which many loud booms occurred on successive days. They frightened me: it was a powerful, double BOOM-BOOM that would shake the house and rattle the windows. I vaugely remember my father saying something about "sonic booms," but as I child I had no idea what this was. Many years later, I became friends with a retired AF intelligence officer, and I asked him what he thought about it. He told me the most likely scenario was that F-101 Voodoos had been scrambled out of McChord AF base near Tacoma, possibly to check out a Russian aircraft that had penetrated the radar fence (for many years a major radar facility was located in Blaine, just off of Drayton Harbor, 15 miles north of here). In retrospect, it makes sense - we lived, literally, almost on the edge of the bay, and the F-101s would have likely been pouring the coal to it and going supersonic as they passed over the area. Even the double boom is explicable, according to my friend: one cone of compressed air coming off the nose of the plane, another coming off the trailing control surfaces - boom, boom, in quick succession. Regarding hearing loud, seemingly inexplicable rumbling sounds that vibrate the ground, I have some experiences that relate to this, as well. I live right next to the Bellingham, WA airport. This airport has an IFR system, and also happens to receive federal funding. Consequently, A-6 Prowlers out of NAS Whidbey frequently use the airport to train for landing-approach/abort maneuvers, which is a pretty beat up scenario. They idle in, and then punch out, making a hell of racket - my cat always runs for cover. Anyway, a few nights ago I was outside puffing on my pipe, when I noted a very deep rumbling, alternately growing louder, and then softer. It would cease, and then it would start up again. I was at a loss to explain it - earthquake, periodic explosions of something at a great distance...I didn't know. This went on for a few minutes until I happened to note, in the sky to the south, the bright landing lights of an aircraft on approach to the airport. I just assumed it was one of Horizon's DeHavilland Dash puddle jumpers - they're in and out of here hourly. As it passed behind the trees, the huge sound of a jet engine winding up and down became apparent, and when it went into a maximum performance climb-out, I knew it was a Prowler that had, for the first time in my recollection, approached from the south rather than the north. As it grew more distant, the sound of it became a deep, periodic ground-rumbling sound, growing louder, then fainter, louder, then fainter - precisely the same sound I had heard before the aircraft had done its approach-abort maneuver. I might have posited an hypersonic aircraft at some god-forsaken altitude had it not been for the fact that one A-6 Prowler (which is subsonic) doing maneuvers in the vicinity, accounted for it... Finally, every summer for many years passing, when the Abbotsford, B.C. International Airshow is going on, I can hear on the horizon, in the direction of Abbotsford, periodic deep rumblings which coincide, by the flying schedule, to flight demonstrations of F-15s, F-14s, etc. And that's 30 miles away. One high performance fighter, flying at subsonic speeds with afterburner, is VERY loud. I just thought I would mention these things. Regards, Rod Brock
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 19 Re: UFO Hunter Seeks Reports Of Sightings In Wales From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 09:28:13 +0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 19:49:28 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Hunter Seeks Reports Of Sightings In Wales >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 07:04:49 +0100 >Subject: UFO Hunter Seeks Reports Of Sightings In Wales >Source: The Western Mail - Cardiff, Wales >UFO hunter seeks reports of sightings in Wales >A top UFO hunter in Britain has turned his sights to Wales and >is appealing for help in his research. Just how does one become a "top UFO hunter"? -- In an infinite universe, infinitely anything is possible. Sean Jones http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 19 Yakima Indian Reservation Photo? From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos@yahoo.es> Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 16:37:25 +0100 (CET) Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 19:59:16 -0500 Subject: Yakima Indian Reservation Photo? In the Spring 1981 Bulletin of the Center for UFO Studies there was an article by Bill Vogel on the Yakima Indian Reservation UFOs. Page 6 disclosed a photo which was dated in page 5 as August 27, 1971. In the MUFON UFO Journal, issue 166, December 1981, there was an article by Greg Long on the same sightings and a close-up of the above photo appears in page 6, now dated as August 17, 1972. Can Bill, Greg or any other specialist clarify the right year when this photograph was taken? Thank you. V-J
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 19 Re: Corso - Bennett From: Colin Bennett <sharkley@panzerben.fsworld.co.uk> Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 19:02:21 -0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 20:02:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Bennett >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 19:15:39 +0000 >Subject: Re: Corso - Hall Talk about a marriage of convenience! I will leave others to judge the surprise nuptials of Richard Hall and Andy Roberts. May they live happily ever after and have many children. I'd like to drink to the blushing bride, but I don't know which one it is (answers on a postcard, please!). But what I want to talk about is Richard accusing me of insincerity. Now if Richard wrote, as I do, extensively in the outer world as distinct from his tiny cosseted realm of Ufology, he would realize that in the media and journalistic world at least, accusations of insincerity mean always that the target has realized that he or she is being satirized and does not like it. Yes Richard I am satirizing you and your collection of facts and certainties worthy of the Jurassic Museum. You and Ufology both had better grow up and learn to take being satirized. If I can take it, why can't you? As I said in a previous post, the Brentford Polonius did a good job of satirizing of myself, and I had to take it. Satire would give Ufology some of that wit, sophistication and polish it lacks utterly, as the po-faced "scientific" part of it at the moment could described as depressing as a visit to a Salvation Army cottage-hospital for dogs in 1890. There comes a stage in the development of both a culture or indeed a human being where it either becomes strong enough to see itself as silly on occasion or not. If not, it dies sure as eggs is eggs. Satire would also help Ufology develop more sophisticated languages. As a sub-culture, Ufology has developed only three main low-level languages: FactSpiel, DocBox, and SeClass (security classifications). These constitute some of the best Orwellian Newspeak of our time. As writing styles, immediate garroting by an editor would be best such authors could expect. I have heard of rumours of other lesser-known languages of the deep interior of our own heart of scientific-consumer darkness, such as Archspeak (archivespeak) and Labev (laboratory evidence) and Reschmmuter (Yiddish for research talk). These latter are religious languages, known and used only by a few holy men of the secret intellectual sales department. They are mainly verbal, although I have heard of apocryphal stories of published fragments from collectors who have paid a lot of money for them. I am writing a satirical novel about all this at present, and should any List member know of other Ufological languages, please post me at colin@bennettc25.fsnet.co.uk. My novel is to be called Factspeil, and it will cover the whole field of contemporary Ufology. There will be portraits of the major characters of the landscape of belief and disbelief. Chapters already finished include: The Coffin Donkeys of Brentford, Factual Stalinism, At Last: the 1947 Show, and The Show Trial of Corso. The book should be available early next year, and it will make make Mosely and Pflock's Shockingly Close look like a teddy bear's picnic But to the point. Your offer, Richard, to have nothing more to do with me was like being attacked by a run-over ice cream cone. Not even the wily Polonius von Brentford would have copped out like this. Be that as it may, I accept your surrender unconditionally. So you want to get out of the ring do you? You say you don't want to fight me anymore? You've had enough? So soon? Great - so that's two down, a couple of hundred thousand to go, and I hope they all buy the book. You've obviously have been hurt bad, so OK, I won't attack or satirize you any more if that is really what you are asking, and I think it is. Post away as if I didn't exist. But I will be watching for any backsliding, and if you attack me again, I shall reply in even stronger satirizing terms once more. Now your Andy Roberts is a different kettle of fish. Your Roberts loves pain. And the last thing he'll do is bunk out of the ring when the going gets rough, and it is going to get very rough indeed. I like that. This is going to be the best show in town. The cobwebbed dovecotes are all a-flutter I understand, and the old Pantomime Dames of Scientific Ufology are stamping their little feet. I am informed by countless folk that the UFO updates List offers the very best entertainment on the web, and I am proud to play a small part in what one private e-mailer called the Greatest Private Vaudeville on Earth. Now your Roberts won't like me for saying this, but he is a shaman figure, a hill-man, a true ancient Briton, is your Roberts.You are nobody if you have not been cursed by him. That's his only Ufological function. His actual Ufological work and thoughts can be safely ignored that is if you can find them to ignore in the first place. If he screams at you, you have arrived. He doesn't yet know that this is his mythological role of course. He thinks he is offering rational criticism! It is one of my tasks in life to try and make this boy see and accept that his transcendental self exists, and that this ancient function is far more important than his wretched pen-to-paper efforts, whose mundane low-key baleful drone has a singular note of class hatred encased in a wailing ancient despair deeper than plummet shall sound. He should give this up. He is pre-text and pre-verbal. But since he would not understand that, I won't continue with the illustration. But his anger is much more important. Robert's genius (and I must admit that he has a spark of wrecked and troubled genius) lies in his pyrotechnic cursing. This never stops, and one wonders if he screams at himself when he is alone. His howls are positively Biblical in their intensity, and his lamentations worthy of Jeremiah himself. But I will say this for him: if he can ever access this storming energy and direct it properly, then we would possibly have the best Ufological writer of all time. If this happens, then we would have a Ufological writer with qualities of soul, energy and imagination, and they are as rare as nightingales at Christmas. I am going to help him make this terrifying leap into the dark. He will curse me for it but it is my mission to bring this lost soul to enlightenment. Perhaps one day an old aunt will take him aside and inform him of his Tolkien-like origins. She will reveal to him that he is really a hobbit figure guarding the entrance to the Ufological mysterium. Only then will he see that his savagings are worn as badges of honour by initiates. You are nobody unless you have been cursed and bayed at by Roberts. At the moment, given his arrested mental progress, this is his one and only value. His thinking is worthless, if it exists at all. Thinking is far too young a thing for him, in any case. He is not a modern. He probably does something more valuable than thinking. His genes are old enough for that. He probably reasons by mimesis, rebirthing and soul-transfer, to name but a few possibilities. But meanwhile, here in the old curiosity shop we have come to love our very own spoilt child baying at the moon and taking the many chips off his shoulder and trying to ram them down all our over-educated middle-class southern throats, an experience for which we all thank him profoundly. May he live forever, if he has not done so already. Andy Roberts, we all love you. Now go and tell your mother that the whole town is jealous. We've lost you to Richard Hall. Yes, I think Andy has been doing what he does ever since the Romans left Britain and probably before the Henge Stones and the burial Mounds. At the present time, I am developing a List post for Laurel Oplatka (who asked the original question on Corso that set the List alight) and after apologizing for not knowing that she is of the fair sex, I tell her of further efforts to reform the soul of Andy Roberts. I tell her that just one of my many Ufological tasks is to try and induce Roberts into self- analysis and let him rediscover the thread back to his true self, that is a Merlin figure walking along Old Straight Track. This is his problem. This is the source of the manic energies that leave him totally exhausted. He does not know who he is, or what or where are the powerful historical pseudo-identities that his shamanistic howling stems from. He will of course not like any of this, and in his reponse, he will howl and curse and scream and stamp and shout in his usual manner. He will call me everything from a pig to a dog, he will call me a rogue, vagabond, and felon; he will call me a mountebank, a pseud, a frogster; he will pour forth a stream of invective equal to the pages of Rabelais, and the Flighting of Dunbar. But as will be seen from my Oplatka post, at least Andy knows that now there is now someone to take spiritual care of him night and day, no matter what he does, no matter what he sayeth. I will guard this hobbit son from the Black Riders. I can do this because I am centuries older than he is, though he has probably guessed that by now. He won't escape from me. Death means absolutely nothing. We have both been here before, centuries ago. Richard, you have chosen a bad partner. You're not quite built on theAndy Roberts level. As far as psychic high maintenance is concerned, I rate the bitch even high than Wallis, Duchess of Windsor. I mean who can afford this boy? Richard, you don't have this level of massive conflicts in you. Thank your lucky stars for that, or they would blow your nuts and bolts apart. He will also be desperately unfaithful. He will need whores like me as a source of mystery, anarchy, misbehaviour, non-conformity and especially imagination. This boy's problem is that he wants to be me. That's what his whole trip is all about. He'll leave you at night to go wandering on the dark side of town your mother warned you about. And there will be (perish the thought!) all the Colin Bennetts in the world, winking their stocking-tops at him. When he gets back, he'll tell you he's just popped out to walk the dog. I think it is love. Georgina's turned him down, and now It's me. Good Golly Miss Molly! So be it, Richard. With such non-nut-and-bolt thoughts, I'll leave you, baby. So keep pill-popping the measurements, the instrumentation, the angles, and the temperatures and all that profound common sense and scientific practicality that surrounds you that will rot your mental innards like an apple in cider. But a warning from the Mad and the Bad: the measurements and the common sense are there to fool you. That's their function. Any alien would agree with me. As with Old Ordnance Survey, the triangulations are there to cover up what is going off the landscape, not to reveal. Richard, as a cultural screen, you have a lot to offer those unfortunates who believe that what you measure is what you get. But any alien would know that as a measure of either Old Roberts, the Old Stones, or even Old Yours Truly, the calculating will get you absolutely nowhere. So goodbye, calculate away, and may the gods bless your shaky intimations of factual certainty, sir! What is all this crap about, good folk of the List? I'll tell you what it is about - it is about preventing either science or skepticism taking over the UFO experience. That's what it is about. Hurrah! Colin (Bad Man) Bennett Watch this space! PS: I'm leaving you all now to get back to analyzing the Randle/Friedman dialogues. We were going to do the Aldrich/Friedman dialogues as well, but Jan has bunked off (Where's he gone to? I miss his scowls, his bad temper and his sneers. If any one sees him, tell him the Bad Man is still here, and sends his unrequited love. How about that for sincerity, Richard?) There are five of us here (three men two women) plus three pit-bull mastiffs, two cats, and three souped-up super- computers at it on this sunny Sunday afternoon in the old curiosity shop. Believe me all you egghead bears, cracking these dialogues is like cracking the Japanese Purple code. As the sorcerer said to his apprentice, the MJ12 game may be rigged, but it's the only game in town Hallelujah!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 19 Re: Alien Proof, All are in denial! - Garlits From: Don Garlits <garlits@pig.net> Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 14:59:22 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 20:06:35 -0500 Subject: Re: Alien Proof, All are in denial! - Garlits >From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>)" >Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 17:46:16 -0400 >Subject: Re: Alien 'Proof' Rejected As Hype >>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>To: <- UFO UpDates Subscribers -> >>Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 17:35:12 -0500 >>Subject: Alien 'Proof' Rejected As Hype >>Source: The Birmingham Post - UK >http://icbirmingham.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100localnews/page.cfm?objecti d=12543975&method=full&siteid=50002 >>Jan 17 2003 >>Alien 'Proof' Rejected As Hype >>By Emma Brady >>Startling images of an object thought to be a UFO are nothing >more than over-exposed pictures of a planet, according to a >Birmingham professor. >>Pictures beamed back from the Solar and Heliospheric >>Observatory (Soho), a satellite monitoring the sun, using >>equipment developed by Birmingham University experts were >>thought to be proof of alien ships in space. >>But Professor George Simnett, head of the university's space >>research group, has dismissed the hype surrounding the claims as >>"nonsense". >Sorry if I'm late catching up on some of these. >There are only two planets that I know of between the Earth and >the Sun, and it wasn't them. Once outside the the Sun's rim what >planets would these be? >Professor George Simnett should either prove the planet theory >or spare us the off-the-cuff nonsense we are so used to hearing. >The same planet showing up on two different satellites in >different places? >Laziness-pure and simple. This is the kind of misinformation we UFO investigators are constantly barraged with. The scientific community refuses to admit there is anything or anybody in the universe capable of star travel, which would of course make these being much more intelligent than the human species. The fact that we are being visited by many alien species is a fact, not a belief, but who wants to admit the truth. Certainly not the professors or the government. All the books will have to be rewritten, theories will be trashed and careers will mean nothing. Who can handle it, so we go into denial, everyone. Brand the messengers as "kooks", crazy's, etc, etc. Time will change all this, you can bet on it. Professor George Simnett should either prove the planet theory or spare us the off-the-cuff nonsense we are so used to hearing Don Garlits
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 20 'MJ-12: The FBI Connection' From: Chris Evers <hufos1@hufos1.karoo.co.uk> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 01:05:03 -0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 14:09:12 -0500 Subject: 'MJ-12: The FBI Connection' HI EBK and Listers Nick Redfern recently provided the following titled article: MJ-12: The FBI Connection To read this, take a look at: www.hufos1.karoo.net Thanks go to Nick for the article Best regards To all Chris Evers EYE
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 20 Re: Corso - Bennett From: Colin Bennett <sharkley@panzerben.fsworld.co.uk> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 10:54:41 -0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 14:18:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Bennett >From: Laurel Oplatka <calabash2003@webtv.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 19:07:33 -0800 (PST) >Subject: Re: Corso - Oplatka >>From: George Hansen <gphansen2001@yahoo.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 19:36:41 -0800 (PST) >>Subject: Re: Corso - Hansen >>>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 11:06:45 -0800 (PST) >>>Subject: Re: Corso - Tonnies Dear Laurel, My goodness darling please forgive a chauvinist pig for not seeing that your Christian name indicated that you were of the fair sex. I apologise again. Well, Laurel you started a fair old battle, didn't you? You must think you parachuted in on the battle of Stalingrad! Welcome to the best WebTV in the Western World. There's blood on the floor, casualties galore, hoaxes and tricks, ritual cursing, cultural fear, paradigm jumping, unrequited love,and even the occasional complete disappearance. We've got here everything bar cannibalism, incest and human sacrifice. >Why do I insist upon reading/pondering/experiencing the hugely >erudite, vastly witty and transcendental mind of Mr. Bennett? My >introduction to this 'UFO thing' (referring to it as a phenomena >no longer even makes sense to me), was by way of the Lorenzen's >APRO - their works and friendship - which I respected very much. >I also indeed respect Stanton Friedman and Richard Hall. Thank you for your assessment of my work. Mr George Hansen in a recent post, agrees with you: >>Judging from some of the comments on Colin Bennett's posts, I >>gather that many ufologists do not appreciate just how pertinent >>postmodern and deconstructionist theory is for ufology. >>The intellectual vertigo that some may feel after reading >>Bennett is altogether similar to that experienced by >>establishment scientists who read the UFO literature. >>Unfortunately, most ufologists are trapped in beliefs in >>literalism and in the transparency of language, beliefs shared >>by both scientists and religious fundamentalists--the major >>antagonists of ufology. This is no accident. >>Those who denounce Colin Bennett's approach are woefully >>ignorant. There is a massive amount of pertinent theory >>supporting his approach. Ufologists are welcome to ignore that >>work, but if they do, they should not be surprised at their >>reception in intellectual circles. Their sneers at Derrida are >>only too telling. Unfortunately there are just a few people on this List who don't agree with such assessment of my work. But I will convert them in time before you very eyes, Laurel. The problem is that some people are resisting postmodernist conversion. My mission is to convince them to think of a postindustrial reality as regards the UFO, so well summed up recently by a post from Mac Tonnies: >>>I don't think open-minded science and Bennett's postmodern (or >>>whatever you want to call it) take are mutually exclusive at >>>all. But when one starts to push the other out of the >>>investigative arena, we're in deep trouble. Bennett's "Looking >>>for Orthon" and Hynek's "The UFO Experience" are equally >>>relevant. They relate to the subject in unique, but very >>>meaningful, ways. <snip> >>>Bennett redefines and mutates our fundamental approach to the >>>UFO enigma as ably as Vallee. (And when he's not forced to >>>constantly defend himself, his prose is remarkably agreeable. >>>I urge Bennett's detractors to read "Looking for Orthon" and >>>"Politics of the Imagination," available by clicking the URL below: >>>http://www.mactonnies.com/ufobooks.html But some ufologists have grave difficulty with postmodernist abstractions as others have difficulty with the nature and theology of the transcendental Eucharist. I intend to do something about this. But some people want to disbelieve. One of my parishioners as it were is Andy Roberts, an archetypal disbeliever if ever there was. He is a bit of a Stalinist Ufological commissar whose soul I am absolutely determined to save from the purgatory of factual dialectics. This boy is built for disbelief, big time. This boy has a habit. He fixes on disbelief like it was going out of fashion. Furtive folk sell this stuff at his school gates, and this boy is a sucker for their wares. He would disbelieve anything. He needs disbelief like actors need cocaine, Catholic priests need young men with teddy bears tucked under their arms and this List needs light relief. The boy Roberts has a very great but wounded soul. The pain of his habit of disbelief causes him to roar and bay to the moon during certain times of the lunar phase. I am working on an Andy Roberts wall chart for schools shops, and factories. This will show the exact times he goes out and howls, cursing every single Ufologist from Chipping Norton to Alabama who should or would or could possibly believe in alien presence. He has another peculiar habit even more absurd and dangerous. He interviews people and takes notes and he calls this being real. He reaches real conclusions and writes real books and knows real people. Everything about him is real. This is why he is worth saving. Such innocence about reality must be sacred. I will heal this fallen realist if it is the last thing I do. Though he thinks I am the devil incarnate and will fill the jocund air with bellows extraordinary when he reads this, I have a kind of love for this brute, and an infinite nostalgia for the real world he lives in. This is a world of pre-postmodern appearances in which real doctors cure real people, policemen arrest real criminals, real enemies get attacked by real soldiers, and what you see is what you get. This reality trip is intense, sacred mystical, and profound, though it is not advisable to tell him so. Occasionally he finds things that are not real, and howls and bays at his favourite targets: UFO sightings, long words, claims of alien presence, abstract reasoning, and his favourite piece of unreality: highly intelligent well-spoken middle-class Home Counties women writers. All these things are unreal to him. And unreality is bad. May blessings be upon thy limitedoptions, Andy Roberts. A box of partially-real gray scales is on its way to thee both for thy inspiration and thy comfort. In comparison, Richard Hall (a believer, I believe) is a very and nice rather saintly American gentleman, though not of my parish, unfortunately. Though a clever and sophisticated good writer, he succumbs far too readily to the goad, and threatens to have no more to do with me almost every single post he writes. Unlike some other notable people I could mention, dear Richard always comes back for more. He loves it all. I suspect we have in Richard someone who is on his way to postmodern Rome, after having experienced similar doubts to those of Cardinal Manning, so eloquently described by Lytton Strachey in his book, Eminent Victorians, a phrase that describes Richard exactly. Of late I have parted company with Richard purely over metaphysical issues. The great world argues about money, property, sex, ambition, and new cars. Only Ufologists as part of a Last Days culture argue about such edifying abstractions. I am ready to receive the confessions of either Richard Hall or Andy Roberts at any time night or day. They may contact me through e-mail should either of them want confidential advice about a change of faith to postmodernism, a thing not to be taken lightly. As regards dear Andy, his ingrained Protestantism is more difficult to deal with than Hall's purely intellectual difficulties. I have to apply some crude methods to make Roberts to pay attention to matters of belief, that is things between the real and the unreal. Whenever I don't hear his curses coming towards me for some time, I tempt him out from his river bank with a piece of his favourite fried fish on the end of a line, and when he is in the net, I attempt to give him that spiritual instruction without which life is meaningless. This calms him down, and he squats by the waters side side as I read him poetry, his head on one side as a dog listens to high-pitched sounds. Laurel, I bet you do not get letters like this in every post. But I want to rescue both these men, introduce them to the postmodern ideas of Charles Fort, and concept of a non- mechanical reality. I want to save Andy Roberts from becoming an Arthur Scargill figure, howling on the edge of the long-gone Yorkshire coalfield, pining for the last years of the old traditional British collier working-class. As for Richard Hall, I am (was!) the only person at the moment who is trying to stop him settling down for naps in the afternoon at his club and waking in terror with my face before him. Surrounding us here on the List are hundreds of equally interesting Ufological folk who have taken the wafer quite of their own accord. This is Web TV this is, Laurel. Every single things here is a postmodern act of some kind. God help us all when this List gets the technology for individual Web cameras. I would hate to be cursed and sworn at by Andy Roberts in his birthday suit first thing in the morning, or ticked off for not being "factually objective" and "scientific" by Richard Hall whilst he is polishing his silver or riding to hounds. Not that I am against scientists. If I were God I would give them a grant. But it would be a hell of a lot smaller than the swine get at the moment. Laurel, welcome to the greatest social comedy of the age: Ufology. Enjoy it now whilst ye may. It gives the very best in joy -- a secret and private and totally elitist decadent indulgence. The peasant soaps and vulgar media and guilded prizes are not yet here, neither are the spoilt-brats of pop music, the only spoilt brat on the List being the much-abused ME. And nobody gets a penny for anything at all. Contrary to reports, what Ufologists earn would not keep rabbits in a hutch, and don't let them tell you otherwise. All that said, you have found strange and exotic flowers blooming unseen on the floor of an enchanted forest. This is because the great outer world knows almost absolutely nothing about the books and manuals and performers (in most cases a far better word than author) on this List, and in that I include myself. UFO authors are part of a survival cult. Our only consolation is that in these Last Days, our books will probably be the last books to be read! The last irradiated human beings will hold up copies of Mothman and Passport to Magonia as final proof that Mind has only tenuous connections to physical circumstances. For some, finding Ufology is rather like finding the house in the forest in Alain-Fournier's Le Grand Meaulnes. Were the great world to touch us, the spell would be broken, and Ufology would not be there in the morning, just a round circle in the grass full of the ghosts of all the dancing figures of the night before. I have a suitcase packed for that moment, and like Le Comte de Saint Germain, I won't be seen again for a hundred years until that next round of comic intellectual festivities called "advances" and "breakthroughs" begins its Great Cycle again Like Adamski, and indeed Andy Roberts (and Hall if he did but know it), I am a hopeless UFO romantic. The List does not get entertainment like this with every post. A few hate me for it. They are always the same people in dreams and history: humourless destroyers of poetry and inspiration, dreams and the infinite intuition. To talk of metaphor, image, symbol, any abstraction, sends them up like a Roman candle, fills them with cultural fear. They are the crucifiers of all imagination, and the idea of the irrational inspiration is identified with all moral evil. Like Charles Fort, I have great difficulty with the concept of objective fact. I think it is the greatest socio-political con-trick of all time. My genes must far older than mechanism. To talk of measuring anything with set marks is absurd to me as it would have been for Moses. Yes, I am trained in measurement and calculation, I know all about it, I am even quite good at it, but I never trust it. We talk about measurement, we are tragically committed to the culture of measurement, even though we know it is absurd, just as we know that the inside of everyone's head is bigger than the mountains they see. A few still refer to measurement as the source of enlightenment. A good cure for that is to look at pictures of oiled sea birds. That's the end of the measurement Age. God help us all to face now "what rough beast slouches towards Bethlehem to be born". But as you will see Laurel, a few here on this List prefer sober measurement and calculation, charts, statistics, films, all equipment of the dialectical apparatus of cultural interpretation, all the stuff of Andy's "reality", although I think that particular bear is well on his to Rome. His energies alone will eventually defeat fact. He will return to the psyche. I say to the last believers in fast food fact that once you have had a UFO experience as I have had, the last thing you want to do is measure it. How many feathers on an angel's wing? How big? How long?Keep off the grass. Third Republic. Angels what? What time? What what? "What seas what shores what grey rocks and what islands what water lapping the bow/And scent of pine and the woodthrush singing through the fog/What images return/ O my daughter_I made this, I have forgotten/ And remember_" (T.S. Eliot, Marina) Well Laurel, Looking forward to reading many more List posts from you! Colin (Bad Man) Bennett PS what is you next question? Whilst I wait for this, I sit here in London surrounded by Mosque raids, threats of gas and chemical poisoning, nuclear suitcase bombs, and hotels and country houses overflowing with armed Taliban, all cashing their Social Security cheques at the local Post Office. Before the alien god attacks, I ponder an uncertain interpretation of the Randle/Friedman dialogues. Fragments of plain text are indeed merging, but very slowly. Myself and my Team all have a long way to go yet before we have cracked the code. Let's hope we make it before the Apocalypse. I would like to post even a part solution to the List before that time.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 20 Italian UFO Newsflash No. 382 From: Edoardo Russo <edoardo.russo@tiscali.it> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 14:16:32 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 14:20:48 -0500 Subject: Italian UFO Newsflash No. 382 ITALIAN UFO NEWSFLASH ISSUE NO. 382 - 17 JANUARY 2003 by the Italian Center for UFO Studies (Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici, CISU) Contents: - A New Graduation Thesis - Another Book About Crop Circles A NEW GRADUATION THESIS On 6 December, a new Italian graduate thesis dealing with the UFO topic was put up for discussion. It is entitled "Attivita' di intelligence e individuazione di oggetti volanti non identificati (UFO): la comunicazione istituzionale verso l'opinione pubblica" ("Activities of Intelligence & Identification of Unidentified Flying Objects (UFOs): Institutional Communication Directed at Public"). Its author is Maurizio Lacco, who majored in Italian at DAMS (Department of Studies on Arts, Music & Entertainment) in the University of Cosenza. Also of note is the fact that UFO writer Roberto Pinotti, whose 1995 book "UFO: Top Secret" the graduate took the thesis idea from, was called to take part of the graduation commission as an adjoint assistant. [UFO Notiziario, No. 40, January] ANOTHER BOOK ABOUT CROP CIRCLES On the heels of the video and the booklet concerning "Crop Circles: Messages Between Heaven & Earth", Adriano Forgione and "Hera" magazine are now sending a new book about the topic into bookstores. Its title is "Scienza, mistica e alchimia dei cerchi nel grano" ("Science, Mystique & Alchemy of Crop Circles"). It is authored by Forgione himself (once again in collaboration with Alfredo Di Prinzio). In its 300 pages (featuring over 100 color photos, priced at 19.90 Euro), it takes up and delves into the theory according to which the formations of circular traces in crop fields is an attempt at contact by energies produced by a "universal mind," in the form of messages having symbolic content. [Hera, No. 37, January] - - - This is the English translation of UFOTEL, a free phone/Internet information service on UFOs edited weekly by Edoardo Russo for the Italian Center for UFO Studies (Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici), available in Italian by calling +39-011-545294, or by e-mail subscription, or on CISU website at http://www.arpnet.it/ufo/ultime.htm UFOTEL is a supplement to "UFO - Rivista di informazione ufologica", published by the Italian Center for UFO Studies, registered at Tribunale di Torino, No. 3670, on 19 June 1986. Director: Giovanni Settimo. Publisher: Cooperativa UPIAR, Corso Vittorio Emanuele 108, 10121 Turin, Italy Translated from Italian to English by: Gary J. Presto, Freelance IT-EN Translator/Proofreader 1123 Revere Beach Pky., # 12 Revere, MA 02151 USA Tel.: ++ 1.781.485.1683, Fax: ++ 1.781.485.1684 ICQ: 110502923, E-mail: gpresto@attbi.com Webpage: http://www.proz.com/translator/723 - - - (c) 2003 by: CISU, Corso Vittorio Emanuele 108, 10121 Torino, Italia This newsletter (as a whole or in part) may be freely copied, photocopied, reproduced, stored, distributed and retrieved, at the only condition that Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici is reported as the source. You may get it directly via e-mail by subscribing (just send a blank message to: cisuflash-subscribe@yahoogroups.com) The CISU is a no-profit association whose aims are: - to promote the scientific study of UFO phenomena in Italy; - to help circulate information about UFO phenomena and studies; - to coordinate national activities of data collecting and studying. You may reach Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici: - by mail: CISU, Corso Vittorio Emanuele 108, 10121 Torino, Italia - by phone: +39 (011) 30.78.63 (24 hours UFO Hotline) - by fax: +39 (011) 54.50.33 - by Internet e-mail: cisu@ufo.it - at the World Wide Web URL: http://www.cisu.org
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 20 Re: Dr. Fred Bell? From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 09:10:47 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 14:25:25 -0500 Subject: Re: Dr. Fred Bell? Hi, Last night, Coast to Coast AM, Barbara Simpson, host, had as guest Dr. Fred Bell. Dr. Bell's site and bio is here: http://www.pyradyne.com/fred.htm Dr. Bell claimed, and Barbara seemed persuaded, that over his life (he was born in 1943) he has not only provided significant contributions to every field of technology that exists (my description of his multi-field achievements), he has also been in very frequent contact with aliens, particularly Pleiadean aliens. His claimed achievements left me breathless. But his answers to Barbara's specific questions left me wondering if he is all he claims to be. Does anyone know if Dr. Bell is generally accepted as the multi- field expert and UFO contactee he claims to be? Thanks, Eleanor White
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 20 Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Morris From: Neil Morris <neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 13:26:01 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 14:30:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Morris >From: Jim Houran <JHouran@siumed.edu> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 14:07:32 -0600 >Subject: Validating The Ramey Memo <snip> >The simple point is that the problem of the Ramey Memo is not >akin to a crossword puzzle and to proceed as though it is, in my >opinion, misguided and unproductive. Either text can be read by >experimentally-naive analysts with state-of-the- art methods or >it cannot. If you need a context to fill in the blanks of text, >then that text is, _by_definition_, ambiguous and subsequently >unreliable. >Many experts attest to Rudiak's point that humans are currently >better at pattern recognition than computers. Of course, studies >on eyewitness testimony and pattern recognition show that humans >generally see what the prevailing context dictates they should >see. The protocol Randle and I proposed actually entails the use >of both computer and human pattern recognition - the major >advantage being that the humans doing the pattern recognition >are blind to _any_ confounding context associated with the >document but who have the technical/scientific expertise to >conduct state-of-the-art analyses on it (similar to the work on >the Dead Sea Scrolls). Jim. I might have missed something here but comparing your proposed methods to those used in deciphering the Dead Sea Scrolls is I feel completely in error. In fact the methods used by the various scroll groups as outlined in for instance Dr Norman Golb's "Who wrote the Dead Sea Scrolls" the last book I read on the subject, indicates the groups who were deciphering and "reconstructing" the text where text had been lost, HAD to have a wide and deep background knowledge of both the period and text's of the period so they could think _in_context_ with the scrolls they were working with. This was particularly needed where whole passages of text had to be "reconstructed" with authentic feel where parts of the scrolls had been destroyed or lost. I would suggest this method _is_ akin to what both David Rudiak and I have used in attempting to read the text of the message. The text is in English (all be it US Military) which has certain rules of structure and form to make it understandable, the message was sent/received within a known historical context of which we have background knowledge, it was machine written and therefore on a fixed character pitch allowing for character numbers to be both seen and estimated.(?your crossword puzzle ref?) And like the Dead Sea Scrolls parts of the image are damaged and therefore lost, no enhancement will ever allow these areas to be read, they will have to be reconstructed, ie assumed, or in the end just plain guessed at. Best Regards Neil Neil Morris University of Manchester UK Who's manuscript section seceded in unrolling some of the Dead Sea Scrolls and where some of the early deciphering work was carried out.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 20 Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Rudiak From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 10:37:26 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 14:35:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Rudiak >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 21:59:07 +0000 >Subject: Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Hall <snip> >With the exception of some name-calling and distortions of what >I said (which I will address below), it is a pleasure to debate >the issues with you on this important topic. I have read several >articles in the literature about varying interpretations of the >memo, and the differences do seem substantial to me. Dick, Again, what do you mean by substantial differences? I am deliberately limiting the discussion to "WEATHER BALLOONS" and what I call the two key phrases in the message because they go directly to the heart of the issue. It doesn't even matter much about disagreement elsewhere. For a comparison of different people's readings that's on the Web, see Houran & Randle at: http://beyondpublications.tripod.com/ufoarchives/id21.html "WEATHER BALLOONS" tells us this is about Roswell. The critical phrases "THE VICTIMS OF THE WRECK" and "IN THE 'DISC' THEY WILL SHIP" would disprove any sort of balloon theory and tells us there were casualties and a crash object being referred to as "THE DISC". First of all, "WEATHER BALLOONS". Is there any disagreement about this? No, none at all. As noted in the Houran/Randle review, the original RPIT group read "WEATHER BALLOONS" there, and those that followed (mentioned in the review) Morris, Burleson, Carey, Kirby, and myself unanimously agree on this. >>Another key word that most people agree on is "victims", in the >>phrase (which most people also agree on) "the victims of the >>wreck you forwarded to the ?????? at Fort Worth, Tex." That's >>the key to the entire message. If there were "victims", then >>this was no balloon wreck, and the testimony concerning body >>recovery at Roswell is now documented. > The few key words you cite are interesting, but not conclusive. If Roswell had "victims" and a "disc" crash object, what more do you want? Even a very conservative interpretation would rule out a balloon crash and crash dummies from the future. >I am not aware that there is much agreement about the alleged word >"wreck". The review lists the following: Neil Morris: EXP VICTIMS OF THE WRECK David Rudiak: THE VICTIMS OF THE WRECK Don Burleson: THE VICTIMS OF THE WRECK Tom Carey: THE VICTIMS OF THE WRECK John Kirby: THE REMAINS OF THE MATERIAL To this they could have added the original RPIT interpretation RPIT: VICTIMS OF THE ***** Just about everybody sees "VICTIMS", "WRECK", and/or "THE VICTIMS OF THE WRECK" there, with the exception of Kirby, who is trying to squeeze the 8-letter word "MATERIAL" into an obviously 5-letter word space. Therefore his reading here isn't even worthy of consideration as a legitimate interpretation. (This is one of the points I keep making: not all interpretations should be given equal weight when it is obvious that they are way off base, such as when the letter counts are wrong or parts of the message end up reading like complete gibberish.) Dick Hall previous defined a "peer review" thusly: "By 'peer review,' of course, I mean exactly what I say: cross- checking by people with similar and/or appropriate analytical skills who are also working on the Ramey photo or who are at least qualified to have an opinion. How many peers does it take to establish that "the victims of the wreck" is really there? Does it take 2 out of 3, 3 out of 4, 99 out of 100? How much agreement does it take before we stop chasing the rainbow? As to the overall readability of the words, nearly 80% of my Web poll respondents agree that the words "the victims" are there, versus only 6% who disagree. Similarly Tom Carey e-mailed me the other day with this anecdote about readability: "I gave the Ramey scan to a fellow at work who designs websites as a side job. I told him nothing about what words might be in the memo, and it took him exactly 24.6 seconds to read aloud to me, " . . . AND THE VICTIMS OF THE [CRASH] . . ." [he wasn't sure about "Crash"]." Thus Roswell had "victims". And whether the other word in the phrase is "wreck" or "crash" doesn't make a helluva lot of difference in terms of meaning or implications. (One thing for sure--the word isn't "material"). While this _alone_ doesn't prove a flying saucer crash, how much more conclusive can one get that there were casualties of some kind and this can't be explained by crash dummies from the future or a Mogul balloon crash? >>Anybody who thinks the word "victims" isn't there should check >>out the following graphic and open their eyes: >>http://www.roswellproof.com/Victim_compare.html I suggest Dick Hall do exactly that, if he hasn't done so already and report back to the group what he sees with his own two eyes. Is it "VICTIMS" or "REMAINS" in his opinion? Does he need a team of PhD scientists to interpret this for him? What's wrong with people looking at these words and phrases and making up their own mind? People should also check out the two critical phrases at: http://www.roswellproof.com/Victim_compare.html >>The other key word is the word "disc" (with quotes around it) in >>the sentence immediately following (also present for comparison >>in the above link). Most people agree that word is there as >>well. Rudiak, Burleson, Carey, and RPIT agree on "DISC" or "DISK". (Kirby has nothing. Morris originally had "ELSE", more recently had nothing.) Again the consensus of "peers" who have studied this generally agree that in addition to "victims", the crash object was being called a "disc/disk", not a balloon, not a Mogul, not a rawin target, etc. >>So now we have a military telegram about Roswell ("weather >>balloons") mentioning "victims" and an object called "the >>'disc'", and most people who have taken the time to actually >>study what is there agree on this, despite disagreements >>elsewhere. In other words, there is already peer group >>verification of critical parts of this message. >I wish I had the time to study all this in more detail, but I >don't and I make no claim to being a Roswell investigator, much >less a Ramey memo investigator. I follow the investigations >with interest. The problem is you are making generalized statements about there being fundamental differences when there aren't on the really critical parts of the memo. Roswell had "VICTIMS" and a "DISC", and that's all anybody really needs to know to completely dismiss any sort of balloon theory. >>>Whatever happened to objective peer review? David Rudiak, whose >>>Roswell web site is a positive asset, even went so far as to >>>suggest that peer review was equivalent to a Government >>>conspiracy. Huh? Let's get real here! >>I do not object to "peer review." I just want to you and others >>to be very, very explicit about what you have in mind. Biased or >>poorly thought out peer review is worse than no peer review. I suggest Dick Hall check out James Houran's recent post where he proposes readers who are deliberately told nothing and know nothing about the message. People who know nothing do not exactly strike me as Dick Hall's definition of "peers". Furthermore stripping out all surrounding context from the message will virtually guarantee mostly negative results. This is what I mean by a poorly thought out peer review. >>The >>fact that you call for "objective peer review" makes me wonder >>if you really understand what is involved in doing such a >>review. How do you keep things "objective" with such an >>emotionally charged topic? (Yes, even scientists have been known >>to have biases, or do I need to remind anyone of people like >>Menzel, Sagan, Krauss, and other know-nothing, "don't confuse me >>with data" scientist UFO debunkers?) >My background and training is in scientific philosophy, logic, >etc. I think I know what peer review is, but I am beginning to >wonder whether you do. Dick, this shows how little you know about me. I have science degrees and a lot of training in physics, biophysics, neurophysiology, and vision science (including visual perception). I have published articles in peer reviewed science journals. I know what peer review is. Despite your nonsensical statements elsewhere about me being prejudiced against scientists and science, what I am really prejudiced against is rigid, narrow-minded, biased scientists and badly done scientific reviews. When it concerns the subject of UFOs, we have these in abundance. Whatever scientific expertise these people have seems to immediately vanish when discussing the subject of UFOs. Names like Donald Menzel, Carl Sagan, Lawrence Krauss, Jill Tartar, Frank Drake, Elizabeth Loftus, Michael Persinger, Robert Baker, etc., immediately leap to mind. You say you know what peer review, yet I asked you to be very specific about what you had in mind for a peer review and your post back has nothing. In contrast, I proposed a very specific, controlled polling test of key portions of the memo to test readability that got around the problems of tester objectivity or Roswell knowledge awareness. I thought you would be pleased with the idea. But there was zero comment from you, despite your call for an objective peer review. So I repeat: What exactly do you mean by an objective peer review and how would you set it up to avoid the problems I outlined in my first post? Do you think James Houran's ignorant reader's proposal is a valid way to test memo interpretations versus the way I proposed? And if so why? I also repeat my question as to why you think scientists are necessarily the only ones somehow qualified to conduct such a peer review. As you yourself note, peer review basically means being judged by a jury of one's equals, in particular by people of similar background and knowledge. Is a PhD physicist necessarily the best person to pass judgment on a symphony, a piece of modern art, or Olympic figure skating? Or more to the point, are scientists necessarily better at figuring out the thread of conversation in a noisy restaurant, or a noisy terrorist cell-phone intercept, or the bad handwriting of somebody else's mother, or a word puzzle in a Sunday newspaper magazine? My polling tests checks the readability of key parts of the memo using a cross-section of the English-speaking population. This can be set up as a scientific polling process. But just getting opinions from scientists about whether "victims" or "disc" is in the message strikes me as a mostly pointless exercise. >Emotionally charged topics especially need it. Nowhere have I >ever suggested that obviously biased scientists or skeptics >should be the sole conductors of peer review. They certainly >should be part of it, and their facts and reasoning also held up >to review. You keep it objective by not making emotionally >charged comments like you keep making about your work and that >of others, and by encouraging and promoting full, free, and open >exchange of data and discussion thereof by any and all who are >qualified to have an opinion. I was in the scientific community for many years. It might amaze you to know that aside from their scientific backgrounds, scientists are cut from the same cloth as everybody else. In particular, they have emotional biases of varying degrees that can color their work. No matter how nice or helpful you are likely to be to a panel of scientists culled from the ranks of an organization like CSICOP, is there any doubt as what their conclusion would be? Or if you got a more balanced panel, like that assembled by Sturrock to review the UFO evidence, and they concluded that, "Yes, the words 'victims' and "disc" do appear to be there," would anybody pay any attention? Did the press, government, or public pay that much attention to the conservative Sturrock panel, or the far more sensational COMETA report? Even you are saying "so what?" to the Ramey memo. The point is, what exactly do you hope to accomplish through this ill-defined peer review anyway? Positive results from scientists or other Ufologists would most likely be completely ignored. Negative results will most assuredly be widely cited within the skeptical community, the obviously highly biased Condon Report being one example. In case you haven't noticed, debunkers are hypocrites. They don't play fair. >>Here are major issues in any sort of peer review: >>1. Who chooses the peer reviewers? How do you keep them >>"objective" in their choices of reviewers? >Phil Klass and Bob Young. (Just kidding!) No one chooses them; >they choose themselves. Since "Ufology" is not a science to >begin with, there are no standard setters other then experienced >researchers who have something to say on the subject. So, in other words, you are talking about what might be loosely called "Ufologists" or UFO-interested researchers. The problem is the debunking double standard. If these reviewers have a "pro-UFO" slant, then any positive affirmation of words like "victims" or "disc" will be brushed off as nothing more than "wishful thinking" or "seeing faces in the clouds." (We already have positive results from other "Ufologists" on words like "victims" and "disc" and aren't they being ignored, including by you?) On the other hand, if they disagree and claim to see nothing but blobs or words like "remains", their opinions will be trumpeted far and wide as evidence that the rest of us who see "victims" are guilty of "wishful thinking." Thus, ideally, what you really want are skeptics of UFOs of some stature willing to put some time into this and give their honest, educated assessment of this. If they affirm words like "victims" and "disc", then they would carry more weight since they aren't "true believers." The problem here is that honest, knowledgeable, interested, and diligent skeptics of stature are almost non-existent. Do you know any? I sure don't. >>2. What are the criteria in choosing the peer reviewers? What >>are the necessary qualifications of the peer reviewers and who >>decides this? Why, e.g., is a physical scientist better than an >>English major or a linguist, since this is primarily a >>linguistic task, not a physical measurement? How do you keep the >>peer reviewers objective? >Your bias against scientists is showing. Nonsense! When Greg Sandow or John Velez goes after PhD psychologist Elizabeth Loftus for debunking abductions as implanted false memories are they "biased" against scientists, or are they making a statement about how an armchair academic is grossly overreaching in her conclusions from her over-simplified experiments? I've been around scientists and the academic community too long to routinely place them up on pedestals. Some are brilliant, open-minded, and wide-ranging in their views and knowledge. Others are bigoted, arrogant, close-minded, and very narrowly focused. Like other human beings, they run the gamut. > I kinda like them >myself, especially when they actually behave scientifically. >THen their qualifications are very helpful. Right, "when they actually behave scientifically," which they often don't when it comes to emotionally charged subjects. But when they do behave properly, they can bring knowledge of experimental design, statistics, etc., to bear on the problem, as I noted in my proposed readability test. But if you are proposing that "scientists" do their own personal reading of the Ramey memo, I repeat my question as to why they are better qualified to do this than an English major or somebody who is an expert in working word puzzles? In contrast, my proposed polling technique would test the readability of key sections of the memo across a cross-section of the English speaking population. >>3. How is this peer review going to be carried out? What is the >>protocol and methodology? Who decides this? How do you ensure >>the protocol is "objective" or properly designed? >No brainer. Everyone with appropriate knowledge and/or skills who >wants to pitches in and analyzes all the data, or at least that >approproate to his/her training or experience. Again, this is so vague as to be almost meaningless. Appropriate knowledge of what exactly? What data is to be analyzed and how is to be analyzed? >>4. How do you keep your peer reviewers motivated such that they >>persist for a reasonable time (meaning dozens of hours, not 15 >>minutes), other than paying them a lot of money? Who's going to >>pay them? >Very few of us get paid; most of us are in debt for their >efforts. Sincere interest in arriving at the truth is a good >motivator, and I assume you are so motivated. But the average skeptic, as you well know, is lazy and intellectually slovenly when it comes to the subject of UFOs. The people who are willing to put in the time and sacrifice to do good, solid research usually do so because of personally fascination with the subject matter, meaning they usually think there is something to it. And because of the double standard that pervades this subject, their opinion only counts outside of the Ufological community if they come to negative conclusions. I also direct you to James Houran's proposed study, where his readers are to be kept completely ignorant of the subject matter. How do you keep them motivated for more than 15 minutes under such circumstances? >>It is all sounds very simple and high minded to call for a peer >>review of independent scientists, but the devil is in the >>details. I want to remind you already of one "attempt" by the >>Air Force in 1994 to read the Ramey memo in which they turned >>over a negative copy and blow-ups to a photoanalysis lab of "a >>national level organization." Allegedly they were unable to >>"visualize" any "details" in the message because of >>"insufficient quality." In other words, they were claiming with >>all their weasel words that nothing at all could be read here. >No one in his/her right mind would suggest that the views of a >major partisan with an axe to grind should have sole review >rights. Yes, but the problem is the double standard. Positive results of pro-researchers are dismissed or ridiculed; negative results loudly trumpeted. It's a no-win situation. I'm certainly not saying don't do peer review. In fact, there is no way I could possibly prevent it. I am merely expressing concerns beforehand about how it is to be carried out and what would be accomplished by doing it. Need I remind you that there are people even in the Ufological community with personal agendas who could use the guise of a "scientific peer review" to debunk the Ramey memo? >>Here's another problem with "peer review." Do the people doing >>the peer review or designing the protocol really understand the >>problem? Consider the peer review proposal of James Houran and >>Kevin Randle. They suggested using three separate groups and >>"triangulating" readings. Furthermore, to solve the objectivity >>problem, they suggested telling the groups nothing at all about >>what the message was about. Presumably, to keep this even more >>"objective", the peer reviewers should also be completely >>Roswell ignorant. >>That sounds superficially reasonable, but it is full of >>problems. First of all, we are back to who chooses the groups >>and the criteria for choosing them. But the more serious problem >>is the proposal to keep the groups completely in the dark to >>make the reading more "objective." In doing so, you've removed >>absolutely critical information needed to disambiguate the >>message. It's like filling in some fraction of a crossword >>puzzle with possible letters, but removing most of the clues. >>Without the clues, the words become ambiguous with possible >>multiple solutions. Therefore, the suggested Houran/Randle >>protocol virtually guarantees failure. >I think Roswell-ignorant reviewers with no stake in the outcome How do you determine whether they have no stake in the outcome? And if they are ignorant, why should they be treated as peers whose opinions carry equal weight? They should be treated as no more than a loose control on one end of the reading spectrum -- "this is what some people come up with if we keep them completely ignorant of the situation." >certainly should be involved in the peer review and would be an >important part of it, but not the sole participants. Yes, definitely not the sole participants, yet that is exactly what James Houran is proposing. Where are the "peers" in Houran's proposal? >Your points >about context and language are well made. I wish you would tell James Houran that instead of just directing your fire at me, because he is proposing removing all context. Rather than treating context as important if not vital information, he refers to it as "confounding". That's why I proposed my polling test of critical word/phrase readability. It gets around the problems of objectivity and whether subjects are knowledgeable. You poll a cross-section of the population with no pre-knowledge of what this about and have them choose between alternate interpretations in three different situations: no context, misleading context, and finally correct context. <snip> >>No intelligence agency in their right mind would approach >>reading the message in this way, by keeping the analysts >>completely ignorant of context. I recently sent Kevin Randle a >>long e-mail in which I gave the analogy of a cell phone message >>from a known terrorist being intercepted, but the reception was >>poor and the message was full of static and faded in and out. A >>few words came through relatively clearly, but most of the >>message was faint and noisy. This is the auditory analog to the >>written Ramey message. >>Now what does the intelligence agency do to interpret the >>message? What they would really do is turn it over to a >>terrorism task force that was highly familiar with the terrorist >>networks. They would tell them _everything_ known about the >>message -- when & where it was intercepted, who the known >>terrorists on the phone was, what he was up to at the time, etc. >>If they want their analysts to disambiguate a noisy message, >>they need to provide them with the proper context. >>What they would _not_ do would be to turn it over to groups of >>know-nothing scientists and also tell them absolutely nothing so >>that they will be more "objective." This is the danger of a >>badly designed protocol done in the name of "objective peer >>review." It will only cause negative results and then be used to >>debunk the whole thing. >Your anti-scientist bias is showing again. No Dick, merely pointing out that scientists are human beings with biases like other human beings and also no better at reading or solving word puzzles than literate non-scientists. Again why are my reservations about badly designed experiments and/or biased scientists any different than, say, Greg Sandow or John Velez's criticisms of scientists like Elizabeth Loftus, Robert Baker, or Michael Persinger? >>When I suggested people going to my website and conducting their >>own peer review with their own eyes, Dick Hall jumped on me >>saying the whole thing now needed to be dumped into the lap of >>the scientists. I considered that an elitist and patronizing >>remark, and also indicated that he didn't appreciate the >>problems that I've outlined above. People weren't supposed to >>make their own judgments without some authority figures telling >>them what to think first. >Now your imagination is running wild. I never said said any such >thing, or even close to it. If you actually read and comprehend >my remarks, I cannot understand how you would consider them >"elitist and patronizing." I am certainly no fan of authority >figures and authoritative pronouncements as a substitute for >real science, as you should know if you have read my writings. Well this is what you wrote: http://virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/nov/m28-012.shtml "Now you cheerfully suggest that a popular poll on the issue of readability is a worthy thing. Science is not conducted by a vote among non-scientists." Now perhaps I misunderstood what you were saying here, but it sounded to me like you were saying only scientists were qualified to render opinions on the Ramey memo, and the perceptions of ordinary people were worthless. In reality, if you want to do scientific testing of what people perceive, you do something along the lines of what I suggested, namely ask a cross-section of the population what they are perceiving. Scientists (i.e. objective scientists with no axe to grind) may be best at devising the testing situation and then analyzing the results afterwards, but they are no better than anybody else when it comes to being experimental subjects. >>Scientists are not automatically more qualified to work a word >>puzzle if they have a PhD after their names than the hapless >>liberal arts major waiting tables or the secretary typing the >>bosses letter. This is a linguistic task. Scientific protocols >>can be devised to help, such as the one I used and wrote up on >>my website (which was also endorsed by Houran and Randle >>incidentally). But ultimately it comes down to whether the >>average person sees words there or not. >I never said they were (I have a B.A. degree), but your anti- >scientist and anti-PhD biases are showing. Rubbish! I was merely pointing out the obvious--scientists are no better at perceptual tasks than anybody else. Further there are a lot of biased scientists out there who are pretty damn ignorant yet feel free to express their negative opinions about UFOs, abductions, etc., while representing them as scientific fact. I recall you in the past expressing considerable frustration at such people. "Hey, why don't they read the "UFO Evidence" first?" Good question. > I kinda like some >PhDs like Bruce Maccabee, Bob Hall, Mike Swords, Mark >Rhodeghier, to name a few. So do I, but what does this have to do with what I was saying? Their takes on the Ramey memo aren't necessarily any more worthy than somebody without a PhD. Furthermore a PhD after their name is no guarantee that their research is necessarily valid or objective. Are we to kow-tow before the opinions of Elizabeth Loftus and Michael Persinger on abductions just because they are PhD's? I trust non-scientists, non-PhD's like Greg Sandow and John Velez's insights on abductions far more than Loftus or Persinger. ><snip >>Scientific background is >>important in proper design of the test (the example above is a >>suggested starting point) and analysis afterwards, but it is not >>necessary to use scientists to do the test readings. They are no >>better at this sort of task than anybody else, which is one >>reason I object so strongly to Dick Hall's elitist remark about >>how only scientist were qualified to read and "validate" the >>Ramey memo. >Here we go again! Something I never said. So what exactly are you proposing, since you have yet to be specific as to how the peer review is to be carried out or what you think it will accomplish? >Keep up the good work, but lighten up about who besides yourself >has any intelligence or relevant skills. My criticisms of peer review represent advance concerns about badly designed experiments and hidden agendas cloaked in the mantle of scientific research and opinion. You may be familiar with this quote: "The Condon Project... is the single most quoted instance of a formal academic study of the phenomenon, and it is cited by debunkers as being a responsible, well-organized, thoroughgoing negation of UFOs. Its basic finding was that UFOs are not of any scientific research interest. Upon studying the primary project documents, any historian or sociologist of science will discover, however, that none of this is true. Rather, the Condon Project reveals itself as an intriguing but egregious case of bad scholarship." -- Richard Hall, "The UFO Evidence, Volume II" (I bought the book.) I do not think that in writing those words you were expressing an "anti-scientist" or "anti-PhD" "bias", although you were highly critical of the PhD scientists like Condon who white- washed the whole thing. The Condon Project was billed in advance (and afterwards) as an objective, scientific, peer review of the UFO phenomenon. But that's not the way it turned out. Hence your well-justified comments above. I and others consider the contents of Ramey's memo to be of extraordinary historical importance concerning Roswell and the subject of UFOs in general, and there will no doubt be attempts gun it down in the future. So, in essence, my concern about "objective peer review" is to prevent it from turning into the modern-day equivalent of the Condon Project. David Rudiak
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 20 Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 15:01:35 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 14:37:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer - Ledger >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 17:18:22 -0700 >Subject: Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer >>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 12:57:32 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer >>>I can't believe we're actually discussing this childish >>>prank. Does anyone even timidly suggest that this might be the >>>work of an advanced extra-terrestrial species? Why can it NOT be >>>a very human practical joke? >>On the other hand Jim, I don't see you complaining about the >List discussing Corso ad nausem for weeks now. >Well, first of all, I'm learning a great deal from the >discussion, although something tells me everything being said is >in the archives somewhere... second of all, Corso is at least >demonstrably UFO-centric, if not providently so. If we allow a >deer on top of a pole to become a UFO issue, I fear we will slip >down the slope until anything bizarre becomes fodder for this >List. It won't be long before we are discussing whether Elvis >was re-animated by saucer beings (Plan 9-E From Outer Space?). > ==JJS== Hi Jim, I think the connection being made here is to some curious incidents concerning cattle mutilations in the western United States and Canada. In one incident an 1,800 pound steer was found 40 feet up in a Ponderosa Pine. Since animal mutilations have been tentatively linked to the UFO phenomenon since the days of Snippy the horse [San Luis Valley, Col. 9/67] large animals found up in trees and on power poles raises a few eyebrows. I suggested deer jacking [poaching] then using a small chopper to get them out of the woods, in an earlier email which -thanks to the New England states- is a lucrative trade [or was] some years ago-particularly here in the Maritime Provinces. Many of the deer were shipped [smuggled] to New England. At $1,000.00 US a pop in the early 90s that wasn't anything to sneeze at. As for Corso. It's too bad the man didn't live long enough to answer questions. But he's been popping up once a year like clockwork for the last 4 years, and I'm just tired of hearing the same old arguments. Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 20 Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 15:01:35 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 15:51:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer - Ledger >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 17:18:22 -0700 >Subject: Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer >>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 12:57:32 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer >>>I can't believe we're actually discussing this childish prank. Does anyone even timidly suggest that this might be the work of an advanced extra-terrestrial species? Why can it NOT be a very human practical joke? >>On the other hand Jim, I don't see you complaining about the List discussing Corso ad nausem for weeks now. >Well, first of all, I'm learning a great deal from the discussion, although something tells me everything being said is in the archives somewhere... second of all, Corso is at least demonstrably UFO-centric, if not providently so. If we allow a deer on top of a pole to become a UFO issue, I fear we will slip down the slope until anything bizarre becomes fodder for this List. It won't be long before we are discussing whether Elvis was re-animated by saucer beings Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 15:23:40 -0400 From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20021120 Netscape/7.01 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto (by way of UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>)" <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: The UFO Hunters - Speiser References: <4.3.2.7.2.20030119192605.00b889b0@pop6.sympatico.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 22:50:32 -0700 >Subject: Re: The UFO Hunters >>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>) >>To: <- UFO UpDates Subscribers -> >>Date: Friday, January 17, 2003 3:41 PM >>Subject: UFO UpDate: The UFO Hunters >>Source: TechTV - US >>http://www.techtv.com/news/culture/story/0,24195,3414589,00.html >>The UFO Hunters ><snip> >>Possible explanation for sightings >>The BBDs are also thought to be behind the March 1997 >>sightings of strange lights over Phoenix, which were captured by >>several television new crews and tracked across the entire >>desert Southwest. >>These proposed aircraft would be a good candidate for UFO >>reports because of their hypothetical quiet propulsion system, >>blimplike structure, and advanced stealth capabilities. >>Electrochromatic displays are the key. The idea is to project >>images of the sky above an aircraft onto the machine's >>underbelly. >Good lord, don't tell me John Lear was right? He told me about >this electrochromatic display system over 12 years ago...I of >course thought he had flown one too many missions above 10K >without O2.... >I have thought for years that BBDs could very well be earthly >in origin. I was told by a former Rockwell engineer who had >worked on Senior Trend that we had developed the ability to >project holographic images into clear air. I conjectured that >these craft may in fact only be holograms. Such a thing could be >safely tested over civilian areas in order to judge their >effectiveness. The same could be said for electrochromatic >display, albeit minus the safety factor... Hi Jim Wonder where this crap comes from. What lights was the "craft" duplicating from above? That's a little weird on its own, right. And what craft was this? This belief that there is fantastic science being held in secret by the USAF/CIA or pick your poison never fails to amaze me. Where's the history to support this faith? Don Ledger . >==JJS== Hi Jim, I think the connection being made here is to some curious incidents concerning cattle mutilations in the western United States and Canada. In one incident an 1,800 pound steer was found 40 feet up in a Ponderosa Pine. Since animal mutilations have been tentatively linked to the UFO phenomenon since the days of Snippy the horse [San Luis Valley, Col. 9/67] large animals found up in trees and on power poles raises a few eyebrows. I suggested deer jacking [poaching] then using a small chopper to get them out of the woods, in an earlier email which -thanks to the New England states- is a lucrative trade [or was] some years ago-particularly here in the Maritime Provinces. Many of the deer were shipped [smuggled] to New England. At $1,000.00 US a pop in the early 90s that wasn't anything to sneeze at. As for Corso. It's too bad the man didn't live long enough to answer questions. But he's been popping up once a year like clockwork for the last 4 years, and I'm just tired of hearing the same old arguments. Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 20 Re: 'MJ-12: The FBI Connection' - Gates From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 14:38:52 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 15:53:29 -0500 Subject: Re: 'MJ-12: The FBI Connection' - Gates >From: Chris Evers <hufos1@hufos1.karoo.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 01:05:03 -0000 >Subject: 'MJ-12: The FBI Connection' >HI EBK and Listers >Nick Redfern recently provided the following titled article: >MJ-12: The FBI Connection >To read this, take a look at: >www.hufos1.karoo.net >Thanks go to Nick for the article Went out to the link and found the article. Nick did a good job describing the ins and outs of the MJ-12/FBI saga. The front group notion is very plausable. Look at the Stealth fighter. For years the AF PR dept denied that it existed, when in fact it was a highly classified codeword program that the AF was in fact running. So the Front group so to speak (AF PR) denied that it existed, when in fact it did. The AF PR folks were telling the truth because based upon their knowledge and access (which they didn't have any until the just before it was declassified) they could say it didn't exist. So the front group in essence served to protect a greater secret. Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 20 Re: Corso - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 15:48:52 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 15:55:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Ledger >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 07:57:45 +0000 >Subject: Re: Corso >>From: George Hansen <gphansen2001@yahoo.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 07:05:28 -0800 (PST) >>Subject: Corso >>Liminality theory is abstract, but it has considerable >>explanatory power. Among other things, it explains-- >>The marginal status of ufology. >>The transitory nature of the phenomena. >>Why research funding comes from wealthy individuals, but >>rarely, if ever, from large bureaucratic organizations. >>Why UFO cults are far more successfully institutionalized than >>UFO research organizations. >>Why fictional movies of ETs can make hundreds of millions of >>dollars while serious research is given a pittance. >>George P. Hansen >Gosh! You mean it's not all a conspiracy by the government and >big media, as most people on this list seem to believe, but has >to do with the nature of the subject itself? >Whatever next! Hi John, The gov must love your butt-except for the fact that you can read and write. That's a bit of a drawback for them. Just being able to scratch your X on the ballot is all they are really looking for. To have absolute faith in your government's veracity. Man that's ..... Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 20 Re: Yakima Indian Reservation Photo? - Anderson From: Kathleen Andersen <KAnder6444@aol.com> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 15:02:53 EST Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 15:59:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Yakima Indian Reservation Photo? - Anderson >From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos@yahoo.es> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net, ufotolist@yahoogroups.com >Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 16:37:25 +0100 (CET) >Subject: Yakima Indian Reservation Photo? >In the Spring 1981 Bulletin of the Center for UFO Studies there >was an article by Bill Vogel on the Yakima Indian Reservation >UFOs. >Page 6 disclosed a photo which was dated in page 5 as >August 27, 1971. In the MUFON UFO Journal, issue 166, December >1981, there was an article by Greg Long on the same sightings >and a close-up of the above photo appears in page 6, now dated >as August 17, 1972. I am not sure Greg is on this list. The information I have is as follows: Vogel's "teardrop" was photographed on August 27, 1971. Greg Long's photo was a different object. The stationary luminous orange ball was captured by David Akers was on August 21, 1972. MUFON reports in the past couple of years from the Eastern Washington/Idaho border has produced a report of a "teardrop" seen at about 6 am 5 years ago and a luminous gold ball seen in March, 1999. The distance between this location and Yakima is about 175 miles. I just recently received a case in Yakima which we are investigating. In our wildest "dreams" we would love to have reports of unusual aerial phenomenon occur on a regular basis. Sadly the cases are far and few between. During the summer months I camp in the area of Mt. Adams and on the western border of the reservation and have yet to see anything unusual. I keep hoping! Kathleen Andersen MUFON State Director Western Washington
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 20 Re: An Abduction Checklist - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 16:13:32 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 16:03:04 -0500 Subject: Re: An Abduction Checklist - Ledger >From: Rod Brock <humble98225@yahoo.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 00:01:41 -0800 (PST) >Subject: Re: An Abduction Checklist >>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 23:39:16 EST >>Subject: Re: An Abduction Checklist >>I would point out that the so called benovelant ETs that are >>just waiting to show up and save the world will not show up and >>save the world from the various wars and destructions that >>have happened and will happen. >Hello, Robert, >Your statement, above, immediately called to mind Jacques >Vallee's 'Six Social Consequences of Widespread Belief in UFOs' >- 'Messengers of Deception', 1975 - which I have ocassionally >brought up on various Lists, although no one has been much >interested. For what it's worth, here's consequence #2: <snip> Hi Rod, We are on the same page there. It's always amazed me that western religions seem to offer an easy out for the perpetrators of the most heineous crimes imaginableor just screwing over you fellow man during the week and atoning for it by going to church on Sunday. All is forgiven. Confession is good for the soul. It is for my soul if it's made to the authorities and you are either locked up for it or hung. I posted something a couple of weeks ago about my disappointment with Sci-fi writers of my youth who quite often would have threatened by some alien culture - perhaps even destruction of mankind because we were so warlike. The reader was supposed to ignore the fact that the aliens were going to do the same thing to us, mind you. I'm guessing that if there is some intelligence out there watching, they probably think, this is great - it bears out what we suspected about our own violent past. I can't imagine how any polite species would ever have gotten to a higher level of intelligence by being polite to T-Rex [or a sabre-toothed tiger, to get a little closer to our own era]. Thank space for asteroids - so far. I'd be willing to bet that "they" wouldn't/don't give a rat's ass about our violent past or present. Leave a group of 4 and 5 year olds alone for awhile - let them fend for themselves. See which ones survive. It's nature for the fit to survive. One still wonders though - where did the banana come from? Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 20 Re: Corso - Gates From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 15:16:49 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 16:04:42 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Gates >From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 01:28:48 +0100 >Subject: Re: Corso >>From: George Hansen <gphansen2001@yahoo.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 07:05:28 -0800 (PST) >>Subject: Corso >>>From: George Hansen <gphansen2001@yahoo.com> >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 19:36:41 -0800 (PST) >>>Subject: Re: Corso >>Several people have expressed skepticism regarding my post on >>deconstruction. They seem puzzled by claims of its applicability >>to ufology. This is entirely expected and understandable. The >>problem is not with the commentators in this forum, but rather >>with how deconstruction is taught and discussed in academe. ><snip> >Hello George, >After suffering through the pointless posts trying to defend >Corso by the most absurd manner of thought I think we still have >not stated what lies behind these issues. There are basic >differences in people regarding their boundary spectra of Josh, It boils down to this. Corso told a story that people liked to hear, it appeared to be plausable, never mind the fact that not a shred of evidence could be produced that verifed that any kind of technology (whether ET or not) was seeded into the private industry by Corso at Army FTD when Corso claimed the technology was 'seeded.' I supposed somebody could go out and go through the Army records and see what contracts were let in the time frame Corso came up with, but even if that came back negative, the Corso supporters would just rationalize it away as part of the big conspiracy so nothing was put on paper, blah blah blah. At this point the thrust of Corso's story can't be verified, (other then "Phil said") but people still like the sounds of the story so to speak. In ways it reminds me of the people who were being told back in 1996 that ET mass landings were going to happen in the Desert SW on April 24th 1997 or that ET was going to land on a mountain top in Arizona in Dec of 2000. Neither event happened, but up until it was very clear that it didn't happen people defended the storys and the story tellers...literally to the death of the story. A few rationalized it away, while the rest went on to the next story that came along. The skeptibunkers do the same things. Some skeptibunker comes up with a notion that the cause of this or that sighting was "venus" or whatever. After that many if not all the other skeptibunkers start blathering venus. If you notice in UFO circles researchers are open about differences in various theories, while in the skeptibunker circles, one a theory is floated, other skeptibunkers either never or very rarely challenge or dispute the theory. They even take the desire to believe up to the next level with the notion that even if some kind of plausable non ET explaination is not forth coming, one may come forth in the next 40 or 50 years.... Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 20 Re: High Altitude Balloon Launch - Gates From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 15:21:03 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 16:05:57 -0500 Subject: Re: High Altitude Balloon Launch - Gates >From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 03:25:30 -0400 >Subject: Re: High Altitude Balloon Launch >Hi Errol, >This might result in many UFO reports in the southern >hemisphere. The largest ever balloon launch by Goddard out >of >Alice Springs-Australia. Go to: >http://www.gsfc.nasa.gov/topstory/2003/0120uldb.html >carries a 6,000 pound payload. How the skeptbunkers will react: "Oh my gosh, any/all UFO sightings made anywhere on planet earth during the times while the balloon was aloft can be explained by the balloon...." :) Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 20 Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Rudiak From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 12:22:45 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 16:07:44 -0500 Subject: Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Rudiak >From: Neil Morris <neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 14:30:10 -0500 >Subject: Re: Validating The Ramey Memo >>From: Jim Houran <JHouran@siumed.edu> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 14:07:32 -0600 >>Subject: Validating The Ramey Memo <snip> >I might have missed something here but comparing your proposed >methods to those used in deciphering the Dead Sea Scrolls is I >feel completely in error. >In fact the methods used by the various scroll groups as >outlined in for instance Dr Norman Golb's "Who wrote the Dead >Sea Scrolls" the last book I read on the subject, indicates the >groups who were deciphering and "reconstructing" the text where >text had been lost, HAD to have a wide and deep background >knowledge of both the period and text's of the period so they >could think _in_context_ with the scrolls they were working >with. This was particularly needed where whole passages of text >had to be "reconstructed" with authentic feel where parts of the >scrolls had been destroyed or lost. >I would suggest this method _is_ akin to what both David Rudiak >and I have used in attempting to read the text of the message. >The text is in English (all be it US Military) which has certain >rules of structure and form to make it understandable, the >message was sent/received within a known historical context of >which we have background knowledge, it was machine written and >therefore on a fixed character pitch allowing for character >numbers to be both seen and estimated.(?your crossword puzzle >ref?) And like the Dead Sea Scrolls parts of the image are >damaged and therefore lost, no enhancement will ever allow these >areas to be read, they will have to be reconstructed, ie >assumed, or in the end just plain guessed at. Neil, Although we certainly have had our differences in the past concerning our interpretations of Roswell and the Ramey memo, I agree completely with all the points you made above. Use of context is absolutely essential and you can't get very far without it. Another point that I think needs to be made concerns James Houran's statement that "humans generally see what the prevailing context dictates they should see." This sounded like he was saying that we were seeing only what we wanted to see, or we were little more than Pavlovian dogs reflexively responding to a stimulus and didn't put some thought into this. If that were the case, then why didn't somebody come up with more sensational words like "aliens" or "spaceship" in their readings? Unusually clear words like "victims" are "dictated" by the clarity of the visible letters there plus restrictions imposed by the English language (it's a noun and only a limited number of words could possibly fit there) coupled with the military context of the message. No other word in the English language fits the likely characters or the known context. Wishful thinking has nothing to do with it. David Rudiak
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 20 Re: Dr. Fred Bell? - Andersen From: Kathleen Andersen <KAnder6444@aol.com> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 15:46:59 EST Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 16:10:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Dr. Fred Bell? - Andersen >From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 09:10:47 -0500 >Subject: Dr. Fred Bell? >Does anyone know if Dr. Bell is generally accepted as the multi- >field expert and UFO contactee he claims to be? Personally speaking Eleanor, Fred Bell got my attention at a ufo conference some years back. However it was due to the fact he was walking around with a pyramid on his head and not due to his remarkable story. Kathleen Andersen Seattle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 20 Kelly Incident Defies Explanation From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 16:16:45 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 16:16:45 -0500 Subject: Kelly Incident Defies Explanation http://www.kentuckynewera.com/cgi-bin/view.cgi?/200301/18+straight01182003_news. html+20030118+news Saturday, January 18, 2003 Kelly Incident Defies Explanation By Cecil Herndon editor@kentuckynewera.com One thing leads to another, especially in regard to column fodder. A fellow called last week after having read our column about the Kelly Little Green Men. He had questions, particularly concerning our reference to the Elmer "Lucky" Sutton family's alleged "battle" with space aliens. The caller's name is withheld largely because he said that if he ever saw an unidentified flying object, he wouldn't tell anyone except perhaps his family members, and then he acknowledged that he in fact had seen a UFO. More about that later. Since the caller said he was fairly well read on the subject of UFO's, we were somewhat surprised that he was unfamiliar with the Kelly incident. All we know about the Kelly incident is what we've read or seen on television. The story in a nutshell is that a spacecraft landed near Kelly, and then strange little human-like creatures approached the Sutton family's house, drawing gunfire from the occupants. Most of the people involved in the reported incident in 1955 are now deceased. The story, though, has taken on a life of its own. Representatives of a California production company recently visited here to research the story for a future film. The real truth of what happened that night long ago apparently was carried to the graves of those involved. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, since it would be a shame to have a good story spoiled. Now, about the caller's own UFO sighting, which he said occurred when he was a youngster riding in a car with his parents. He said a greenish fireball crossed the road in front of the car, producing a loud "hissing" sound. UFO? Of course if was! Anytime someone sees a flying object he can't identify, it is for him an unidentified flying object. This doesn't mean the object necessarily is unidentifiable, nor that it defies logical explanation. But some reported sightings, if taken at face value, fit both categories. Such is the case with the Kelly incident. All we know is that a lot of people believe Earth is visited regularly by intelligent beings from outer space. This being true -- and we aren't saying it is or isn't -- these beings are a lot smarter than we earthlings in the field of space travel. It's a long, long way between rest stops out there. Whether they stopped off at Kelly one summer night isn't for us to say. If so, they didn't receive a warm welcome, which may explain why they haven't landed there again. And it just might be they only wanted to borrow tools to work on their broken flying machine. Cecil Herndon is a columnist for the Kentucky New Era. Hiis column runs regulsrly every Wednesday and Saturday. He can be reached at 887-3232 or at editor@kentuckynewera.com. [UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 20 Slap In The Face - More Mars Controversy From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 16:21:47 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 16:21:47 -0500 Subject: Slap In The Face - More Mars Controversy http://phoenixnewtimes.com/issues/2003-01-16/news3.html/1/index.html January 16, 2003 Slap In The Face More Controversy In The Debate Over An Image Of Mars by Quetta Carpenter The controversy over the alleged doctoring of an image of Mars by an Arizona State University research center is exploding like a supernova. The backpedaling and finger-pointing among a once- unified group of researchers claiming the government conspired to cover evidence of life on the Red Planet is as interesting as the original conspiracy itself ("To Spite the Face," Quetta Carpenter, December 5). Researchers, led by Richard Hoagland of The Enterprise Mission, have accused NASA's THEMIS project (based at ASU) of altering the first infrared image of Mars. The claim was backed up by an image downloaded by Keith Laney, an imaging specialist, on July 24. Claims were made that the official image filtered out key artifacts, and a complaint was filed with NASA under the new Data Quality Act (DQA) to replace the image. But Nancy Kaplan of NASA, in a written response to the filing, says the image "was not altered, removed, replaced, or otherwise touched" as critics contend. Kaplan welcomed the group to file an appeal. Francis C.P. Knize, one of the plaintiffs, isn't surprised. "The pessimistic side of me well expected that NASA would try to skirt the issue." Knize plans to take Kaplan up on the appeal offer. But the deck is now even more stacked against him. Laney is now publicly denouncing the proposed appeal. "I think their [NASA's] data is topnotch," says Laney. He claims he never intended this much furor. Laney admits to trying to pin the discrepancy on THEMIS's software manager Noel Gorelick, but now he says he's not so sure. "I don't fall for the conspiracy stuff. I just know what my data says." Laney says he is upset with rumors that he is associated with Knize and Hoagland. He calls the DQA filing a "frivolity" and wants out. Others are distancing themselves from Hoagland as well, calling his followers "Hoagland's Heroes," and referring to him as "Hoaxland." And the feeling is mutual. Hoagland lays blame at Laney's feet: "If you are going to accuse someone of not telling the truth, of fabricating the real' data here, then you must accuse Keith Laney of the NASA/AMES Marsoweb Program," Hoagland writes on his Web site. As for the image, Knize is admitting that it is probably not what Hoagland was originally touting it to be. "It looks like a hoax at this point out of Arizona State University," Knize says. "But we can't be sure unless we have an appeal." Knize says the controversy over Laney's image isn't over. "You can bet we are just getting warmed up." But Laney himself is done with cloaks and daggers: "We're just looking at pretty pictures. We don't know until we get there."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 20 Debunking The Debunkers From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 16:30:09 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 16:30:09 -0500 Subject: Debunking The Debunkers http://www.survivalscience.org/debunk/default.shtml Debunking The Debunkers The past few years have seen a rapid proliferation of popular books, websites, articles, and radio and TV programs devoted to paranormal phenomena. That this growth is market-driven is self- evident. A recent Gallup Poll showed that half of Americans believe in extrasensory perception (ESP), and a third or more believe in haunted houses, ghosts, and clairvoyance. In short, consumers are eager to learn about evidence of spirit-related phenomena, and the media are accommodating them. The media aren't alone in profiting from this fascination with the paranormal. Professional self-described "skeptics" are also cashing in, claiming that their mission is to save the public from fraud and deceit. And what's wrong with that? After all, fake mediums and fortune-tellers have been swindling the gullible for centuries, and they ought to be exposed. The occasional scientist, too, fakes data to further his or her career. Parapsychologists and other scientists who explore the paranormal are keenly aware of such fraud. That's why they strongly support exposing deceit by whomever uses fraud- including the professional "skeptics." Like the fake mediums and psychics, the most famous professional "skeptics" regularly swindle their dupes. The universal fraud perpetrated by these folks is describing themselves as "skeptics." In fact, they're not skeptics, they're dogmatists. The distinction between skeptics and dogmatists is drawn by their opposite positions on the issue of certainty. Dogmatists claim that their knowledge is certain, whereas skeptics claim their knowledge is never certain. True scientists are skeptical because they know their knowledge of the real universe can never be established with certainty. In contrast, lawyers and politicians are dogmatic when they zealously advocate their positions regardless of any evidence or arguments to the contrary. Further, lawyers and politicians are quick to avoid the truth, and even to deliberately deceive, when it advances their advocacy. The same is true of professional debunkers. No amount of scientific evidence can move them from their positions, and they aren't reluctant to lie to promote their dogmas. Why? Because the stakes are high. Their careers and reputations depend on their advocacy, so they can't afford to give them up. Protecting their fame and fortune isn't the only motive that drives professional debunkers. Personal beliefs also contribute. The professional debunkers defend their faith in the doctrine of materialism against the weight of evidence of an active, conscious spirit world. This is anti-scientific because science tests theories against evidence, not the other way around. It's paradoxical, then, that many scientists uncritically accept the anti-science that underpins many of the debunkers' arguments. Professional debunking takes place on two fronts-through publications of societies and through the acts of professional illusionists--magicians. Two well-known societies and magazines are most prominent in the debunking effort. Michael Shermer's magazine Skeptic makes this claim about the Skeptics Society: It is a "scientific and educational organization of scholars, scientists, historians, magicians, professors and teachers, and anyone curious about controversial ideas, extraordinary claims, revolutionary ideas and the promotion of science. Our mission is to serve as an educational tool for those seeking clarification and viewpoints on those controversial ideas and claims." Similarly, Paul Kurtz's Skeptical Inquirer, the magazine of CSISOP (Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal), claims to "encourage the critical investigation of paranormal and fringe?science claims from a responsible, scientific point of view and disseminates factual information about the results of such inquiries to the scientific community and the public." It claims further that the magazine "tells you what the scientific community knows about claims of the paranormal, as opposed to the sensationalism often presented by the press, television, and movies." These are certainly worthy goals if they are sincere, but can we believe the debunkers? We cannot. Our debunking exposes egregious examples of pseudoscience and anti-science disseminated by these so-called scientific and educational organizations. The second front is garrisoned by professional magicians, the most famous of which is James Randi, founder and promoter of JREF (James Randi Educational Forum). His website proclaims, "James Randi has an international reputation as a magician and escape artist, but today he is best known as the world's most tireless investigator and demystifier of paranormal and pseudoscientific claims. Randi is an accomplished illusionist and trickster. That is, his glib delivery and skills of misdirection are outstanding. Yet, his behavior is ethically corrupt. When a magician such as Randi performs on stage, his deceit is entirely ethical because he and his audience enter into a tacit agreement. Spectators expect to be fooled, and the performer expects to entertain. This agreement works well when the performer tells a lie such as, "I'm holding in my hand a new deck of ordinary playing cards." The spectators don't say, "I don't believe it." Instead, they suspend their disbelief to enjoy the show. Then, say, the magician pushes a cigarette through a "randomly chosen card." The majority of spectators will enjoy the illusion, knowing that they've been tricked but not caring. But a spectator with a scientific turn of mind might ask how the trick works. After a quick search on the internet, he or she can link to a dealer of magic tricks and find the "Cigarette thru card" trick for sale. Clearly, there's nothing unethical about any of that. However, Randi has broken the tacit agreement by creating illusions off-stage under the guise of investigating and debunking paranormal phenomena. The people he aims to fool have not agreed to be tricked, nor does he tell them he's doing it. On the contrary, he claims he's a serious investigator. It's ludicrous because he uses deception from the start, and that's a serious ethical problem. In fact, this type of unethical behavior is the reason con games are illegal when they are intended to swindle victims of their money. Is Randi's con game deliberate? Judging from his own words, it is. He candidly identifies himself as a professional trickster in his online commentary of 8/3/01 in response to the remark, "Randi is a professional trickster whose life's work is to fool people." He wrote, "Here we have two 'doctors' ... who resent my being a professional trickster (how could we function without lawyers or politicians, smartypants?)." In short, not only critical thinkers, but Randi himself, recognize the absurdity of claiming to evaluate serious scientific work in terms of the methods of tricksters. Nevertheless, scientists and lay persons alike are regularly duped by this showman. In these pages, we debunk the debunkers by documenting many instances of the dishonesty, pseudoscience, and anti-science they use. Enjoy!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 20 Re: Dr. Fred Bell? - Aldrich From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 17:5:5 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 17:45:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Dr. Fred Bell? - Aldrich >From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 09:10:47 -0500 >Subject: Dr. Fred Bell? >Hi, >Last night, Coast to Coast AM, Barbara Simpson, host, had as >guest Dr. Fred Bell. Dr. Bell's site and bio is here: >http://www.pyradyne.com/fred.htm >Dr. Bell claimed, and Barbara seemed persuaded, that over his >life (he was born in 1943) he has not only provided significant >contributions to every field of technology that exists (my >description of his multi-field achievements), he has also been >in very frequent contact with aliens, particularly Pleiadean >aliens. >His claimed achievements left me breathless. But his answers to >Barbara's specific questions left me wondering if he is all he >claims to be. >Does anyone know if Dr. Bell is generally accepted as the multi- >field expert and UFO contactee he claims to be? Fred Bell's father Allen Bell brought the London Bridge to Arizona. Allen Bell must be aka Robert McCulloch and Robert McCulloch's son, Robert McCulloch, Jr., must also be aka Fred Bell. Of course, what would an non-postmodern, non-intellect know about this matter. So please, just ignore this post. Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 20 Re: Corso - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 22:17:49 +0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 17:52:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Hall >From: Colin Bennett <sharkley@panzerben.fsworld.co.uk> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 19:02:21 -0000 >Subject: Ref: Corso >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 19:15:39 +0000 >>Subject: Re: Corso - Hall >Talk about a marriage of convenience! I will leave others to >judge the surprise nuptials of Richard Hall and Andy Roberts. >May they live happily ever after and have many children. I'd >like to drink to the blushing bride, but I don't know which one >it is (answers on a postcard, please!). >But what I want to talk about is Richard accusing me of >insincerity. Now if Richard wrote, as I do, extensively in the >outer world as distinct from his tiny cosseted realm of Ufology, >he would realize that in the media and journalistic world at >least, accusations of insincerity mean always that the target >has realized that he or she is being satirized and does not like >it. Colin, I am a member of the U.S. Author's Guild and have published many books and articles, including quite a few on other subjects than UFOs. >Yes Richard I am satirizing you and your collection of facts >and certainties worthy of the Jurassic Museum. You and Ufology >both had better grow up and learn to take being satirized. If I >can take it, why can't you? As I said in a previous post, the >Brentford Polonius did a good job of satirizing of myself, and I >had to take it. Satire would give Ufology some of that wit, >sophistication and polish it lacks utterly, as the po-faced >"scientific" part of it at the moment could described as >depressing as a visit to a Salvation Army cottage-hospital for >dogs in 1890. Satire is making jokes about people and events, not studying them in any serious manner. Jonathan Swift you ain't. I was much amused by Josh Goldstein's post about you today, not so much by his apparent Freudian slip in calling you "Colon" but by the cogency of his remarks and the way he expressed them. Your verbal diarrhea forces me to do major snipping, because I don't have the time to write an encyclopedia. >There comes a stage in the development of both a culture or >indeed a human being where it either becomes strong enough to >see itself as silly on occasion or not. If not, it dies sure as >eggs is eggs. There is a great deal that is silly in so-called "UFOlogy" (a misnomer if there ever was one), including the notion that reading and focusing on the most dishonest and unreliable sources available will somehow help us to approximate the truth. Fort did believe in approximations as you well know. <snip> >But to the point. Your offer, Richard, to have nothing more to >do with me was like being attacked by a run-over ice cream cone. >Not even the wily Polonius von Brentford would have copped out >like this. Be that as it may, I accept your surrender >unconditionally. So you want to get out of the ring do you? You >say you don't want to fight me anymore? You've had enough? So >soon? Great - so that's two down, a couple of hundred thousand >to go, and I hope they all buy the book. You've obviously have >been hurt bad, so OK, I won't attack or satirize you any more if >that is really what you are asking, and I think it is. Post away >as if I didn't exist. But I will be watching for any >backsliding, and if you attack me again, I shall reply in even >stronger satirizing terms once more. How does one "fight" an octopus who keeps changing the grounds of discussion and evading the fundamental issues with his tentacle-waving. I'm still waiting to learn how you make decisions in every day life. >Now your Andy Roberts is a different kettle of fish. Your >Roberts loves pain. And the last thing he'll do is bunk out of >the ring when the going gets rough, and it is going to get very >rough indeed. I like that. This is going to be the best show in >town. The cobwebbed dovecotes are all a-flutter I understand, >and the old Pantomime Dames of Scientific Ufology are stamping >their little feet. I am informed by countless folk that the UFO >updates List offers the very best entertainment on the web, and >I am proud to play a small part in what one private e-mailer >called the Greatest Private Vaudeville on Earth. I think Andy Roberts sincerely believes that UFOs are all misidentifications of prosaic or exotic phenomena. I utterly disagree with him and have said so all along, including in the post that you are misrepresenting in your zeal to score rhetorical points. Your problem (like that of Moseley and other obfuscators) is that you are far more interested in taunting, game-playing, and joking around than you are in trying to establish the truth about the UFO phenomenon or phenomena. So, by this message I am not entirely ignoring you, but you have a great conceit to think that you have somehow defeated me. It seems to be impossible to get you to honestly, sincerely, and meaningfully debate the core issues. If that continues, than I will not waste any further time and effort on you. Unless you answer my repeated question about your epistemology, this will be my last response. Because it is a total waste of time, not that your seemingly subjective and nihilstic ideas have prevailed. - Dick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 20 Alien Abduction Saga From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 17:58:40 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 17:58:40 -0500 Subject: Alien Abduction Saga http://iccheshireonline.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/dailypost/page.cfm?objectid=125 17551&method=full&siteid=50061 Alien Abduction Saga Jan 9 2003 by Chris Brown, Daily Post Taken Fantastical tales of alien contact are nothing new, from HG Wells' The War Of The Worlds to modern stories in TV's The X- Files, people still love a good extra-terrestrial yarn. On Saturday, Steven Spielberg's Taken will be another addition to this genre with an epic saga covering three families over many generations who are abducted by aliens. But many believe there is more to this than simple stories with Merseyside and Cheshire hotspots for UFO sightings. Indeed, one successful Chester businesswoman claims that not only was she repeatedly visited by a space creature but she became the mother of a half-alien-halfearthling child. And, struggle as you might to believe a word of what Suzanne Brown (an assumed name) says, it is still a compelling tale. Between 1965-1989, Ms Brown insists that she was visited by a 5ft alien with shoulder length blond hair who wore a skin tight membrane suit. Originally the visits, which began when she was just 12, were relaxed and even "loving", but by the time they ended she says she was terrified. Despite the outrageousness of what she says, or the fact that there where no witnesses throughout these 24 years, Ms Brown is adamant. Suzanne, who works in a major department store, says she was on one occasion taken to the less conventional surroundings of a spacecraft and shown the interior, making contact with little grey infants who never seemed to grow up. She would never forget her first sighting of a spacecraft floating perhaps two feet above ground in a field in the Cheshire countryside. Communication wasn't a problem. According to her accounts the creature did not need to learn a language, preferring to rely on telepathy. It was only when the alien, named Myriko, visited her after the breakdown of her marriage that the nature of these visits became more sinister. She tells of a fateful night when, taking her to his spaceship, the creature used mind control to engineer a close encounter of a different kind involving the hapless Ms Brown and two other humans, a vagrant and prostitute. "Calling it a nightmare would be the easy way out but the fact is that it was real, no dream," she says. Her horror increased after the discovery a month later that she was pregnant. Frightened and confused, part of the problem lay in the fact that she was unable to tell anybody else, she claims. A few months later, what she says takes another bizarre twist. While at home alone she began experiencing terrible pain from pressure in her lower abdomen.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 21 Re: Dr. Fred Bell? - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 22:28:07 +0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 04:44:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Dr. Fred Bell? - Hall >From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 09:10:47 -0500 >Subject: Dr. Fred Bell? >Hi, >Last night, Coast to Coast AM, Barbara Simpson, host, had as >guest Dr. Fred Bell. Dr. Bell's site and bio is here: >http://www.pyradyne.com/fred.htm >Dr. Bell claimed, and Barbara seemed persuaded, that over his >life (he was born in 1943) he has not only provided significant >contributions to every field of technology that exists (my >description of his multi-field achievements), he has also been >in very frequent contact with aliens, particularly Pleiadean >aliens. >His claimed achievements left me breathless. But his answers to >Barbara's specific questions left me wondering if he is all he >claims to be. >Does anyone know if Dr. Bell is generally accepted as the multi- >field expert and UFO contactee he claims to be? >Thanks, >Eleanor White Eleanor, One might start by asking the most elementary and obvious questions: "Doctor of what?" I looked at the web site you provided a link to, and there is no mention whatsoever of any degree from any college or university. My skeptical hackles rise immediately, especically when someone claims to have done spectacular things for which he provides no facts, evidence, or background, and invokes mystical-sounding terminology. Caveat emptor. - Dick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 21 Re: EBE-ET International Bulletin January/February From: Thiago Luiz Ticchetti <thiagolt@opengate.com.br> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 20:31:30 -0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 04:47:26 -0500 Subject: Re: EBE-ET International Bulletin January/February >From: Thiago Luiz Ticchetti <thiagolt@opengate.com.br> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 00:47:58 -0200 >Subject: EBE-ET International Bulletin January/February 2003 >Hello my friends, >We are very happy in finally have published our EBE-ET >International Bulletin again. <snip> Sorry friends, but the link was wrong. The correct one is: http://www.ebe-et.com.br/ebe_et_ib.htm Thank you Thiago Luiz Ticchetti Vice-presidente EBE-ET/RAB UFO Magazine Brazil International Coordinator www.ebe-et.com.br
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 21 J-Shaped Marks On An Abductee? From: Michael Harman <rocketman5047@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 14:36:03 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 04:49:35 -0500 Subject: J-Shaped Marks On An Abductee? Requesting info..... I am looking for abduction accounts that are similar to these. If any of you have seen anything remotely similar, please let me know. Please read the following two sections excerpted from an email I received from a presumed abductee. What I am interested in is the "J" shaped marks and the skin and eye iritation. This individual witnessed missing time along with her kids. "The first thing my daughter did when she saw me that morning was drag me back into my bedroom. She told me that she was remembering what had happened and asked me to check the back of her neck. There were four dark red welts (all of them were "J" shaped) right at her hair line. She checked me (I didn't tell her what to look for) and I had them too. My son had two welts on his neck in the exact same spot. It's honestly difficult to tell if he was tanned because he has a penchant for running around in the back yard with his shirt off. (We live in Arizona). The morning of the 16th I awoke with both my eyes glued shut, red, swollen and draining puss. Our skin was getting better..." and "She remembers being in a very large, brightly lit room. She was being observed from a small type of camera in the wall. She couldn't move but she was aware that they were doing an experiment on her to somehow change her. The rest of the time she remembers being on her back. "They never flipped me over on my stomach." She said they were interested in her lungs. She said that they kept her longer than her brother or me and that they were concerned about this. The "J" shaped welts were where they "scrambled our brains so we wouldn't remember," but they had problems with her. She said that she was going to remember everything that happened at some point, but her brother and I wouldn't and this is a bad thing for her. "They did very bad things that I don't need to know about." She told me that they weren't doing these things for us. It was all for them, but they didn't intend to harms us, they just weren't considerate. She said that she was furious with them because they treated us like lab animals and they didn't ask permission..." Mike Harman UFO-PI http://ufopi.freehomepage.com/indexmain.html --------/ \----- --------| |----- --------| |----- --------/ \----- Mike Harman 817-649-0537
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 21 Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 23:49:25 +0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 04:52:24 -0500 Subject: Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Hall >From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 10:37:26 -0800 >Subject: Re: Validating The Ramey Memo >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 21:59:07 +0000 >>Subject: Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Hall <snip> >Dick Hall previous defined a "peer review" thusly: "By 'peer >review,' of course, I mean exactly what I say: cross- checking >by people with similar and/or appropriate analytical skills who >are also working on the Ramey photo or who are at least >qualified to have an opinion. >How many peers does it take to establish that "the victims of >the wreck" is really there? Does it take 2 out of 3, 3 out of 4, >99 out of 100? How much agreement does it take before we stop >chasing the rainbow? >As to the overall readability of the words, nearly 80% of my Web >poll respondents agree that the words "the victims" are there, >versus only 6% who disagree. >Similarly Tom Carey e-mailed me the other day with this anecdote >about readability: >"I gave the Ramey scan to a fellow at work who designs websites >as a side job. I told him nothing about what words might be in >the memo, and it took him exactly 24.6 seconds to read aloud to >me, " . . . AND THE VICTIMS OF THE [CRASH] . . ." [he wasn't >sure about "Crash"]." >Thus Roswell had "victims". And whether the other word in the >phrase is "wreck" or "crash" doesn't make a helluva lot of >difference in terms of meaning or implications. (One thing for >sure--the word isn't "material"). David, This is very interesting. However, I don't understand why (since we agree on so many things) you are so defensive about my comments, nor why you lapse into the third person ("Dick Hall should...") while nominally addressing me. >While this _alone_ doesn't prove a flying saucer crash, how much >more conclusive can one get that there were casualties of some >kind and this can't be explained by crash dummies from the >future or a Mogul balloon crash? Obviously you are convinced. I (who have admitted to not being a Roswell investigator or having the time to follow all these esoteric arguments as much as you think I should) am already convinced (and said so) that the balloon arguments are nonsense. You may be right that there is a consensus about basic terms in the Ramey. If so, it needs to be published somewhere and made readily available to others for peer review. >>>Anybody who thinks the word "victims" isn't there should check >>>out the following graphic and open their eyes: >>>http://www.roswellproof.com/Victim_compare.html >I suggest Dick Hall do exactly that, if he hasn't done so >already and report back to the group what he sees with his own >two eyes. Is it "VICTIMS" or "REMAINS" in his opinion? Does he >need a team of PhD scientists to interpret this for him? What's >wrong with people looking at these words and phrases and making >up their own mind? Dick Hall already said that he doesn't have the time to read all the web sites and arguments. The burden of proof is on the claimant. <snip> >>I wish I had the time to study all this in more detail, but I >>don't and I make no claim to being a Roswell investigator, much >>less a Ramey memo investigator. I follow the investigations >>with interest. >The problem is you are making generalized statements about there >being fundamental differences when there aren't on the really >critical parts of the memo. Roswell had "VICTIMS" and a "DISC", >and that's all anybody really needs to know to completely >dismiss any sort of balloon theory. No, all I am saying is that from my own personal readings (admittedly restricted for time, priority, and financial considerations), I have not seen the evidence to convince me of what you claim. Again, you may be right. >Dick, this shows how little you know about me. I have science >degrees and a lot of training in physics, biophysics, >neurophysiology, and vision science (including visual >perception). I have published articles in peer reviewed science >journals. I know what peer review is. Despite your nonsensical >statements elsewhere about me being prejudiced against >scientists and science, what I am really prejudiced against is >rigid, narrow-minded, biased scientists and badly done >scientific reviews. When it concerns the subject of UFOs, we >have these in abundance. Whatever scientific expertise these >people have seems to immediately vanish when discussing the >subject of UFOs. Names like Donald Menzel, Carl Sagan, Lawrence >Krauss, Jill Tartar, Frank Drake, Elizabeth Loftus, Michael >Persinger, Robert Baker, etc., immediately leap to mind. Now you are citing your scientific training to me in an authoritarian manner as if that trumps other people with scientific training who dispute your conclusions. Your nonsensical responses to my comments about peer review (see, I can throw around this kind of insult too) are off-putting to me. Do you think I don't recognize biased scientists when I see them? When did I ever advocate their opinions as being "peer review?" >You say you know what peer review, yet I asked you to be very >specific about what you had in mind for a peer review and your >post back has nothing. In contrast, I proposed a very specific, >controlled polling test of key portions of the memo to test >readability that got around the problems of tester objectivity >or Roswell knowledge awareness. I thought you would be pleased >with the idea. But there was zero comment from you, despite your >call for an objective peer review. I made very specific comments which you appear to have filtered through your biases and rejected as not conforming to your concept of peer review. By the way, I read and abstract articles from the scientific literature on a nearly daily basis that are straightforward peer review or published scientific research (biophysical, genetic, medical, etc.) Are you now suggesting that since I am not a scientist and you are that my views have no meaning? Who is invoking scientific authority now? >So I repeat: What exactly do you mean by an objective peer >review and how would you set it up to avoid the problems I >outlined in my first post? Do you think James Houran's ignorant >reader's proposal is a valid way to test memo interpretations >versus the way I proposed? And if so why? Funny how those who disagree with you even slightly become "ignorant," or biased, or unqualified. All I have suggested is that many independent perspectives and outlooks are needed to conduct thorough peer review in this field, if for no other reason than (what I think you have acknowledged) that peers are hard to define in such a non-science in which anyone can declare him- or herself an expert. The principles I espouse are well- documented in the scientific literature and in scientific practice. >I also repeat my question as to why you think scientists are >necessarily the only ones somehow qualified to conduct such a >peer review. As you yourself note, peer review basically means >being judged by a jury of one's equals, in particular by people >of similar background and knowledge. Is a PhD physicist >necessarily the best person to pass judgment on a symphony, a >piece of modern art, or Olympic figure skating? Once again, I never said this, and your persistence in misrepresenting what I say is more than a little annoying. >My polling tests checks the readability of key parts of the memo >using a cross-section of the English-speaking population. This >can be set up as a scientific polling process. But just getting >opinions from scientists about whether "victims" or "disc" is in >the message strikes me as a mostly pointless exercise. >>Emotionally charged topics especially need it. Nowhere have I >>ever suggested that obviously biased scientists or skeptics >>should be the sole conductors of peer review. They certainly >>should be part of it, and their facts and reasoning also held up >>to review. You keep it objective by not making emotionally >>charged comments like you keep making about your work and that >>of others, and by encouraging and promoting full, free, and open >>exchange of data and discussion thereof by any and all who are >>qualified to have an opinion. >I was in the scientific community for many years. It might amaze >you to know that aside from their scientific backgrounds, >scientists are cut from the same cloth as everybody else. In >particular, they have emotional biases of varying degrees that >can color their work. It doesn't amaze me at all. Why should it? >No matter how nice or helpful you are likely to be to a panel of >scientists culled from the ranks of an organization like CSICOP, >is there any doubt as what their conclusion would be? Once again, you are belaboring the obvious. >Or if you got a more balanced panel, like that assembled by >Sturrock to review the UFO evidence, and they concluded that, >"Yes, the words 'victims' and "disc" do appear to be there," >would anybody pay any attention? Did the press, government, or >public pay that much attention to the conservative Sturrock >panel, or the far more sensational COMETA report? Even you are >saying "so what?" to the Ramey memo. Assuming they didn't pay attention, what would you conclude from that? Probably exactly the same thing that I would. I am among those who thought the Sturrock panel in the long run proved to be a bunch of moral cowards. And how do you conclude that I am saying "so what" to the Ramey memo? You need to clean out your cognitive filters. >The point is, what exactly do you hope to accomplish through >this ill-defined peer review anyway? Positive results from >scientists or other Ufologists would most likely be completely >ignored. What do you hope to accomplish by insisting that the point has been proven, when it hasn't to anyone's satisfaction than yours apparently? I would be absolutely delighted if you and your colleagues could prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. The real question is, how do you (we) accomplish that given all the biases and roadblocks facing any of us who say that UFOs are real and scientifically important? I don't understand why you seem to think I am attacking you. Basically. I am applauding you while trying to encourage you to practice what you preach: true and unbiased scientific research with full peer review (despite the confusion about defining "peer.") >Negative results will most assuredly be widely cited within the >skeptical community, the obviously highly biased Condon Report >being one example. In case you haven't noticed, debunkers are >hypocrites. They don't play fair. Yes, I know. Once again, if you have read my writings I don't understand why you would condescend to suggest that I am unaware of such obvious things. <snip> >Thus, ideally, what you really want are skeptics of UFOs of some >stature willing to put some time into this and give their >honest, educated assessment of this. If they affirm words like >"victims" and "disc", then they would carry more weight since >they aren't "true believers." No. I would be happy if the Mike Swords, Bruce Maccabee's, Mark Rodeghier's of the world (not known for being skeptics of the basic reality of UFOs as something unexplained) would chip in and lend their evaluations. There are some uncommitted, relatively neutral people out there whose comments would be invaluable. >I've been around scientists and the academic community too long >to routinely place them up on pedestals. Some are brilliant, >open-minded, and wide-ranging in their views and knowledge. >Others are bigoted, arrogant, close-minded, and very narrowly >focused. Like other human beings, they run the gamut. So? I have had the same experience, which doesn't sour me on scientific method. As Allen Hynek said (Paraphrase), "Science is not always what scientists do." And why do you suggest that I place them on pedestals? If anything, I place SCIENTIFIC METHOD on a pedestal, not human beings. >>I kinda like them >>myself, especially when they actually behave scientifically. >>Then their qualifications are very helpful. >Right, "when they actually behave scientifically," which they >often don't when it comes to emotionally charged subjects. But >when they do behave properly, they can bring knowledge of >experimental design, statistics, etc., to bear on the problem, >as I noted in my proposed readability test. Well, do you think I don't know that? Obviously we are in entire agreement on this point. >But if you are proposing that "scientists" do their own personal >reading of the Ramey memo, I repeat my question as to why they >are better qualified to do this than an English major or >somebody who is an expert in working word puzzles? Why do you persist in your, yes, emotionally charged statements totally misrepresenting what I have said? Some scientists are better qualified and/or better motivated, and/or more objective than others. Despite your misreadings of my comments, I have never said that they were the only ones with qualifications to conduct meaningful analyses. As I said before, I have only a B.A. degree in philosophy and I think I have made some meaningful analyses based on my knowledge of the empirical data and my understanding of scientific method. <snip> >>>Here's another problem with "peer review." Do the people doing >>>the peer review or designing the protocol really understand the >>>problem? Consider the peer review proposal of James Houran and >>>Kevin Randle. They suggested using three separate groups and >>>"triangulating" readings. Furthermore, to solve the objectivity >>>problem, they suggested telling the groups nothing at all about >>>what the message was about. Presumably, to keep this even more >>>"objective", the peer reviewers should also be completely >>>Roswell ignorant. Are you the only person who "understands the problem?" <snip> >>Keep up the good work, but lighten up about who besides yourself >>has any intelligence or relevant skills. >My criticisms of peer review represent advance concerns about >badly designed experiments and hidden agendas cloaked in the >mantle of scientific research and opinion. You may be familiar >with this quote: >"The Condon Project... is the single most quoted instance of a >formal academic study of the phenomenon, and it is cited by >debunkers as being a responsible, well-organized, thoroughgoing >negation of UFOs. Its basic finding was that UFOs are not of any >scientific research interest. Upon studying the primary project >documents, any historian or sociologist of science will >discover, however, that none of this is true. Rather, the Condon >Project reveals itself as an intriguing but egregious case of >bad scholarship." -- Richard Hall, "The UFO Evidence, Volume II" >(I bought the book.) What should I conclude about your scholarship that you have attributed to me remarks made by Michael Swords in a clearly labelled essay with his byline (UFO Evidence, Volume II, pp. 603-04). I thoroughly agree with his conclusions, but I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here. >I do not think that in writing those words you were expressing >an "anti-scientist" or "anti-PhD" "bias", although you were >highly critical of the PhD scientists like Condon who white- >washed the whole thing. Swords was, and I agree with him. >The Condon Project was billed in advance (and afterwards) as an >objective, scientific, peer review of the UFO phenomenon. But >that's not the way it turned out. Yes, I know; I was there. >Hence your well-justified comments above. >I and others consider the contents of Ramey's memo to be of >extraordinary historical importance concerning Roswell and the >subject of UFOs in general, and there will no doubt be attempts >gun it down in the future. So, in essence, my concern about >"objective peer review" is to prevent it from turning into the >modern-day equivalent of the Condon Project. Once again, you may be right. I am only urging careful and thorough, and systematic analysis and peer review, though you seem to doubt the concept somewhat by casting aspersions on anyone who even may disagree with you. Let them. Let the chips fall where they may! I am well aware of all the scientific problems involved and have written extensively about them. - Dick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 21 Re: Corso - Rimmer From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 00:30:24 +0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 04:54:09 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Rimmer >From: Colin Bennett <sharkley@panzerben.fsworld.co.uk> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 19:02:21 -0000 >Subject: Ref: Corso >Satire would also help Ufology develop more sophisticated >languages. As a sub-culture, Ufology has developed only three >main low-level languages: FactSpiel, DocBox, and SeClass >(security classifications). These constitute some of the best >Orwellian Newspeak of our time. As writing styles, immediate >garroting by an editor would be best such authors could expect. >I have heard of rumours of other lesser-known languages of the >deep interior of our own heart of scientific-consumer darkness, >such as Archspeak (archivespeak) and Labev (laboratory evidence) >and Reschmmuter (Yiddish for research talk). These latter are >religious languages, known and used only by a few holy men of >the secret intellectual sales department. They are mainly >verbal, although I have heard of apocryphal stories of published >fragments from collectors who have paid a lot of money for them. I must sit down and sip delicately on a cup of Aunt Augusta's Revivifying Herb Tea for Tired Librarians, for I do feel that I am moving towards some sort of agreement with Mr Bennett's - so far - one man campaign to encourage art and imagination in ufological writings. Of course this has always been the aim of Magonia magazine, but it seems to have passed Mr Bennett by. My records, scrawled in a spidery Chancery hand on the backs of old catalogue cards from the Private Case collection at the British Library - show that he subscribed to Magonia for a mere two years, neglecting to renew his subscription perhaps because of the financial disaster caused by the failure of his books to rival the output of Jeffrey Archer or Dame Catherine Cookson. As a result he may have missed some of our more magical moments, such as a discussion of Italian Futurism and robots with twenty-foot penises. Yes, I have to agree with him that too many UFO books are mere collections of telephone numbers, heights, angles, and ludicrously mis- estimated speeds and distances. I hope that I may have avoided the worst of this tendency in my own submission to the genre, "The Evidence for Alien Abductions", released, or possibly escaped, in 1984. I recall with some pleasure a practicing Chaos Magician congratulating me on what he considered the best opening sentence of any chapter in any UFO book, or possibly any book at all: "When Harry Joe Turner was kidnapped by the aliens from beyond Alpha Centuri he was driving $80,000 worth of tomato ketchup through Virginia." Personally, I prefer it more in the Portuguese version: "Quando Harry Joe Turner foi raptado por alienigenis, vindos de Alfa do Centauro, ele viajava atraves da Virginia com um carregamento de sumo de tomate no valor de 80 000 dolares." Although the Dutch version brought better royalties (sales, I am told, peaked in Curacao, Aruba and Surinam) I was never as impressed by the translation: "Toen Harry Joe Turner werd gekidnapt door buitenaardsen die afkomstig waren van een planet voorbij Alpha Centauri reed hij met een vracht tomatenketchup ter waarde van tachtigduizend dollar door de Amerikaanse staat Virginia." I feel it lacks the fado-like plangency of the Portuguese. I would, of course, rather it had been *West* Virginia, but you can't have everything! I am currently re-reading John Keel's "Mothman Prophecies", and marvelling at how precisely he defines the nature of the experiences of individuals and communities surrounded by baffling ufological and Fortean events. Keel is perhaps practicing 'gonzo journalism' before such a concept was recognised. Far from being the supposedly disinterested observer or 'rational' investigator, Keel himself forms part of the events he reports. This has made him an object of scorn amongst some on this List, who consider that he is, particularly with the renewed interest in his work following the Mothman film - somehow "bad for ufology", as if ufology were a branded product or a political party. Where Keel triumphs is in recreating the atmosphere of UFO flaps, and allowing us to understand how people are caught up in the dream-like events that surround them. I am sure that if every one of the hundreds of strange phenomena that Keel recounts in "Mothman" and his FSR articles (poetically entitled "From My Ohio Valley Notebook", which many of us sing to the tune of "What a Friend we have in Jesus") were investigated in the approved Hall-way, few would survive the rigors of such an autopsy. But that of course is what it would be, the autopsy of plastificated corpses, as pointless as that conducted in a disused brewery in Brick Lane a few weeks ago. For Keel is describing living things, reporting living people and giving a voice to living beliefs. Keel's witnesses are not recording instruments to be played back, edited, re-recorded and then pie- charted, codified and pinned onto wall- maps in a room over a Chinese Restaurant in a low-rent area of one of our great cities. When Mr Bennett has finished writing about Edward Ruppelt, and completed his exciting novelisation of the life and times of Andy Roberts (our greatest living Yorkshireman now that Henry Moore is dead) he might turn his pen towards England's own John Keel, the provincial journalist, Daily Mirror stringer, poacher, poet and part-time hypnotist, Arthur Shuttlewood. Now virtually forgotten in his own land, Shuttlewood almost single- handedly created a Magic Kingdom in the small West Country town of Warminster. Yes, I know the photograph that started it all, and filled the pages of the national newspapers, was a button or a paper plate, but that misses the point. Shuttlewood created art. He created an alternate world where people stood on windy hilltops and shone flashlights into empty skies; where space brothers from Aenstria made telephone calls without putting any money in the phonebox; where men could run into pubs shouting "He's had a physical contact!" and not get thrown out. Where little orphan children sat transfixed as corruscating galaxies of lights tumbled across the arc of the heavens in a medley of colour and wonder. Where the English language was transformed by a wild talent which whipped adjectives to within an inch of their lives, and made five verbs do the work of one! Mr Bennett, Arthur Shuttlewood is the only fit subject for your pen! I must go, as Mrs Rimmer is bringing me my much needed cup of Revivifying Herb Tea, the foxes are howling in the churchyard over the grave of John Dee, and tiredness numbs my typing fingers. Farewell for now! -- John Rimmer Magonia Magazine www.magonia.demon.co.uk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 21 Re: Corso - Rimmer From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 23:12:29 +0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 04:56:08 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Rimmer >From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 15:48:52 -0400 >Subject: Re: Corso >>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 07:57:45 +0000 >>Subject: Re: Corso >>Gosh! You mean it's not all a conspiracy by the government and >>big media, as most people on this list seem to believe, but has >>to do with the nature of the subject itself? >>Whatever next! >The gov must love your butt-except for the fact that you can >read and write. That's a bit of a drawback for them. Just being >able to scratch your X on the ballot is all they are really >looking for. >To have absolute faith in your government's veracity. Man that's >..... No, I'm disillusioned already - my check from MI5 for printing the next issue of Magonia bounced! -- John Rimmer Magonia Magazine www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/00/newmag.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 21 Re: Dr. Fred Bell? - Friedman From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 20:58:22 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 04:57:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Dr. Fred Bell? - Friedman >From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 09:10:47 -0500 >Subject: Dr. Fred Bell? >Last night, Coast to Coast AM, Barbara Simpson, host, had as >guest Dr. Fred Bell. Dr. Bell's site and bio is here: >http://www.pyradyne.com/fred.htm >Dr. Bell claimed, and Barbara seemed persuaded, that over his >life (he was born in 1943) he has not only provided significant >contributions to every field of technology that exists (my >description of his multi-field achievements), he has also been >in very frequent contact with aliens, particularly Pleiadean >aliens. >His claimed achievements left me breathless. But his answers to >Barbara's specific questions left me wondering if he is all he >claims to be. >Does anyone know if Dr. Bell is generally accepted as the multi- >field expert and UFO contactee he claims to be? Fred used to show up at various UFO expos making all kinds of totally unsubstantiated claims. I remember one session that I was chairing and I had to announce that Fred had cancelled and would not be appearing. There was great appluse and approval! I would have trouble believing anything he said. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 21 Mystery In The Sky Above Loch Ness From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 10:31:31 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 10:31:31 -0500 Subject: Mystery In The Sky Above Loch Ness http://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/news.asp?storyvar=5846# 21 January 2003 Mystery In The Sky Above Loch Ness Folk around Loch Ness have been keeping watch on the night skies after mystery lights appeared above the village of Drumnadrochit last weekend. Local astronomers have been called in to see if they can find the truth about what is out there, while residents in Drumnadrochit have gathered to watch the light in the early hours of the morning. "It's the buzz of the village," said Liz Gresham, whose husband Ian first spotted the light. "A lady who lives in the respite centre asked the kids if they had seen the light. When they said they had, she told them; 'They should do something about that. It's not natural'." Mr Gresham first noticed the light when he looked out of his window at around 1.30am last week to check for snow and has since filmed the light using the family camcorder. "It's amazing, whatever it is, because it spins and rotates into shapes," Mr Gresham declared. "It looks green when you look at it on the video, but it's actually bright blue. We sat and pondered about it. It can't be a shooting star, otherwise, it would shoot off, and its not an aircraft. It's amazing how it just hovers about and then heads off in different directions. When it slows down, you can see it's not round, it's oblong." Mrs Gresham revealed that people were coming down every night to watch it. "I've never seen anything like it," she said. "It looks as though there are two black things, one at the top and one at the bottom and colours in the middle. For the colours to blend like that it must be spinning round." Mrs Gresham has even contacted RAF Lossiemouth to see if they have picked up anything on radar but was told there is no record of it. The station radar is not manned after 11pm at night. The light gradually moves across the north-west sky, then appears to take off in a different direction. "It looks as though it's going down, but it's actually getting further away," Mr Gresham claimed. "With the camera, I've been trying to get as close in as possible. Whether you expect to see some little aliens waving back at you, I don't know." The family are keeping an open mind about what the light may be, but are not ruling out an extra-terrestrial origin. "The whole village, to be honest, thinks it's a UFO. That's what's putting worries in their minds," Mrs Gresham stated. "I have been on astronomy websites and there's not a star that does anything like that. "We're now just waiting for the kidnappings to start!" Less worried are the couple's three children, Nicole (12), Lauren (8) and Bradley (7), who are excited about the whole phenomenon "The two oldest were up on the first night and they thought it was fantastic," Mrs Gresham recalled. "Nicole came home from school and told us she had to stand there a hundred times a day and tell people about it." Mr Gresham thought that the TV programme "The X-Files" had fired people's imagination. "I think people do believe there is a big place where they keep bits that have fallen off flying saucers," he said. Maarten de Vries, of Highlands Astronomical Society, has studied the video with colleagues and, although he has not identified the object, he believes it is most likely to be man-made as it is too low to be a celestial body, he added. "It's very unlikely it is extra-terrestrial or anything extra- terrestrial visiting, because there is no evidence of anything like that anywhere in the world. There are plenty of stories, but no concrete evidence," Mr de Vries stated. "It is a UFO, because it is unidentified, but people confuse that with extra-terrestrials. It's very possible it's a single light source that has been blurred by the atmospheric conditions, and atmospheric conditions have been very bad. "If I had seen this, I would be intrigued _ so thumbs-up to the people for making the video." Copyright Scottish Provincial Press 2001 [UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 21 Something In The Air Tonight - Letter To The Editor From: Palmiro Campagna <c102jetliner@excite.com> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 19:49:02 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 10:39:35 -0500 Subject: Something In The Air Tonight - Letter To The Editor The Globe And Mail Mon Jan.20,2003 Page: A14 Letter to the Editor Edition: Metro Dateline: Ottawa ON Pearson v. The Martians Palmiro Campagna Ottawa Re: Something In The Air Tonight... (Jan. 17): I read with great interest the recent article concerning Prime Minister Lester Pearson's interest in Unidentified Flying Objects. In fact, the Pearson government was being inundated with letters from inquisitive Canadians on this very subject, so it is not unusual for the PM to have requested an update. Then again, perhaps his interest was more than that. In his Nobel Peace Prize winning speech of 1957, he said: "A common fear, however, which usually means a common foe, is also, regrettably, the strongest force bringing people together, but in opposition to something or someone. Perhaps there is a hopeful possibility here in the conquest of outer space. Interplanetary activity may give us planetary peace. Once we discover Martian space ships hovering over Earth's airspace, we will all come together. 'How dare they threaten us like this?' we shall shout, as one, at a really United Nations!" Author The <UFO> Files: The Canadian Connection
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 21 Re: Dr. Fred Bell? - White From: Elenaor White <eleanor@raven1.net> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 06:39:50 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 16:22:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Dr. Fred Bell? - White >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 22:28:07 +0000 >Subject: Re: Dr. Fred Bell? >>From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 09:10:47 -0500 >>Subject: Dr. Fred Bell? >>Last night, Coast to Coast AM, Barbara Simpson, host, had as >>guest Dr. Fred Bell. Dr. Bell's site and bio is here: >>http://www.pyradyne.com/fred.htm <snip> >One might start by asking the most elementary and obvious >questions: "Doctor of what?" I looked at the web site you >provided a link to, and there is no mention whatsoever of any >degree from any college or university. My skeptical hackles rise >immediately, especically when someone claims to have done >spectacular things for which he provides no facts, evidence, or >background, and invokes mystical-sounding terminology. Caveat >emptor. During the 4-hour interview, he claimed to have a doctorate, or at least I took his statement as such a claim, in nuclear physics. He also claimed a second doctorate in homeopathy. Elenaor White
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 21 UFO Over Necochea Argentina From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 08:26:07 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 16:24:21 -0500 Subject: UFO Over Necochea Argentina SOURCE: planetaufo DATE: January 20, 2003 UFOs OVER NECOCHEA (*) Once again, the coastal city of Necochea (Province of Buenos Aires, Argentina) has been visited by UFOs. On Friday, January 17, 2003, when Hugo Exequiel Reinoso, an electrical technician by trade, observed a strange light of considerable proportions from the door to his house at 22:00 hours. [The object] moved from south to east at a constant speed and velocity, stopping abruptly at a given point in the sky before changing course and heading north. The object was circular in shape, similar to an Argentinean 50 cent piece, and could be made out clearly in the night sky. It made no noise whatsoever during the observation, which lasted approximately 15 seconds. This UFO sighting can be added to the one which occured a few days ago, when several people observed three (3) large multicolored orbs flying over the sea and the city. This tourist city has been visited by UFOs yet again. (*) Translator's note: for more information on the UFO presence over the city of Necochea, visit www.inexplicata.com and scan the links on the page. ============================================= Translation (C) 2002 Institute of Hispanic Ufology Special thanks to Guillermo Gimenez.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 21 Re: Alien 'Proof' Rejected As Hype - Winterflood From: John Winterflood <jwinter@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 23:26:13 +0800 Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 16:30:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Alien 'Proof' Rejected As Hype - Winterflood >From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>)" >Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 17:46:16 -0400 >Subject: Re: Alien 'Proof' Rejected As Hype >>Startling images of an object thought to be a UFO are nothing >>more than over-exposed pictures of a planet, according to a >>Birmingham professor. >>Pictures beamed back from the Solar and Heliospheric >>Observatory (Soho), a satellite monitoring the sun, using >>equipment developed by Birmingham University experts were >>thought to be proof of alien ships in space. >>But Professor George Simnett, head of the university's space >>research group, has dismissed the hype surrounding the claims as >>"nonsense". >Professor George Simnett should either prove the planet theory >or spare us the off-the-cuff nonsense we are so used to hearing. Sadly it does seem that the vast majority of these pictures will have prosaic explanations and the mud deservedly flung at this event by debunkers will effectively bury any real interesting cases that might be there. The obvious question that should occur to anyone observing these photos is "how come the wings of the saucer or UFO always align perfectly with the horizontal pixels of the CCD?". After all the satellite is floating in space where there is no up or down and any wings or saucer shape has no reason to prefer any one orientation over any other. So one would expect images of real craft to be randomly oriented with respect to the CCD pixels - but all that I have seen have been perfectly aligned. The fact is that any bright source, be it a speck of dust a few metres away or a planet, or a star, with capability to over- saturate the CCD will cause the otherwise round shape or spot to smear horizontally and appear to have wings aligned with the CCD pixels. So all the digital enhancement and "shape outline extraction" on the objects that are all perfectly aligned with the pixels seem to me to only serve to destroy any credibility that might have been possible of a more careful analysis. >There are only two planets that I know of between the Earth and >the Sun, and it wasn't them. Once outside the the Sun's rim what >planets would these be? There are plenty of bright sources - planets on the far side of the sun are just as readily observed (although maybe not as bright) as those on the near side, as are also many stars. The purpose of the satellite is to image the sun's corona and so the sensitivity of the CCD is set for this area which will inevitably mean that most luminous objects will be over-exposed (and dim objects under-exposed). If I remember rightly, it is around Christmas time that our milky way passes behind the sun from the point of view of the satellite and so at this time there are a lot more stars than usual to be seen in the background. There are readily available astronomy software packages (such as Mathematica's Scientific Astronomer - not cheap!) that one could plug the satellite orbital parameters into, enter the time and date (which is given with each satellite photo file), and plot the expected picture of the satellites field of view in the vicinity of the sun. This would allow immediate identification of all planets and stars in all the interesting satellite photographs which could then be culled to see if there are any really interesting ones left over (with unexpected asteroids or even UFOs). One could immediately floor any skeptic like Prof Simnett that suggested the image might be of a planet or a star simply by displaying the image predicted from the astronomy software. If EUROSETI has not done this minimal amount of checking before their big presentation to the public, then I reckon they deserve all the ridicule they might get for being so careless.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 21 Re: Corso - Hansen From: George Hansen <gphansen2001@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 09:26:48 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 16:32:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Hansen >From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 01:28:48 +0100 >Subject: Re: Corso - Goldstein >I would highly recommend that you and all Listerions >follow what is being learned in neuroscience. >I follow UFO research for one primary reason. >That is to see what in the field of study can >pass the muster of real science. Yes, "real science," real "truth." Like religious fundamentalists, Goldstein, of the neuroscience persuasion, dares not read the literature of competing denominations (e.g., anthropology). To do so would subject him to the jeers and sneers of his brethren. The canon of his denomination is sacred, and everything must be interpreted according to it. Christian fundamentalists denounce papist ideas as of the devil. They shun talk of magic or mysticism. Their intellectual descendants, the neuroscientists, maintain the same prohibitions -- markers to signify the boundaries of their sect. The taboo is strong. For neuroscientists and their acolytes to read works outside their denomination would endanger their very souls. They cling to their "truth." They shout it from the ramparts of academe. But they sense that it is decaying, and that is why they are shouting. ===== The Trickster and the Paranormal http://www.tricksterbook.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 21 Secrecy News -- 01/21/03 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 14:12:02 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 16:48:33 -0500 Subject: Secrecy News -- 01/21/03 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2003, Issue No. 8 January 21, 2003 ** GOV'T REBUFFED ON FOIA FEE CLAIMS ** IN CONGRESS ** IN THE NEWS ** CLASSIFIED KGB HISTORY ONLINE ** TIME OUT GOV'T REBUFFED ON FOIA FEE CLAIMS In a victory for the embattled Freedom of Information Act (FOIA), a federal court last week blocked a Bush Administration attempt to narrow the class of FOIA requesters who are eligible to have the costs of processing their requests waived. Last year, the Pentagon denied a request for FOIA fee waiver from the Electronic Privacy Information Center (EPIC) with a rather contrived argument that EPIC did not meet the necessary criteria. While acknowledging that EPIC "is an educational organization that disseminates information," the Defense Department said EPIC was not entitled to a fee waiver because it had not shown that it was "both organized and operated to disseminate information." That is not a valid distinction, Judge John D. Bates found. He ruled that by virtue of its information dissemination activities, EPIC is entitled to be considered a "representative of the news media" for purposes of fee waiver. He directed the Defense Department to "expeditiously" comply with EPIC's request. See his January 16 Memorandum Opinion here: http://www.epic.org/open_gov/foia/fees/EPICvDOD_decision.pdf The Bush Administration's FOIA policy to date has been marked by at least two discernable trends: (1) a willingness to defend agency denials that stake out extreme positions or that are obviously false -- such as the CIA's claim that declassification of the 1947 intelligence budget total could damage national security today; and (2) an attempt to raise the threshold for granting fee waivers by routinely challenging the requester's capacity or intent to utilize the requested information for purposes of informing the general public. The standards for granting a fee waiver have long been established in case law, however, and with the latest decision in the EPIC case, the Administration's audacious efforts to change them seem to have been stymied. IN CONGRESS The crescendo of opposition to the Total Information Awareness data mining research initiative continued to build last week with the introduction of two amendments to curtail the program by Senator Charles Grassley and Senator Ron Wyden, et al. See: http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2003_cr/s011703.html See also the "Data Mining Moratorium Act" introduced by Sen. Russ Feingold: http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2003_cr/s188.html Senator Dianne Feinstein introduced a bill to establish the position of Director of National Intelligence as head of the U.S. intelligence bureaucracy. See: http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2003_cr/s190.html IN THE NEWS As described in Secrecy News last week, "Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, noting the likelihood that terrorists regularly check Pentagon Web sites, has told officials to cut down on posting sensitive unclassified material." See "Rumsfeld wants sensitive info off Defense Web sites" by George Edmonson in the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, January 18: http://www.accessatlanta.com/ajc/news/0103/18secret.html Mounting pressures to impose national security controls on certain aspects of traditionally open scientific research are surveyed in "Recipes for Bioterror: Censoring Science" by Philip Cohen, New Scientist, January 18: http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99993266 CLASSIFIED KGB HISTORY ONLINE A Top Secret internal history of Soviet security agencies has recently been published online by the Harvard Project on Cold War Studies. The 1977 document, which remains classified in Moscow, was obtained from Latvian archives by Mark Kramer, intrepid director of the Harvard Project and editor of the Journal of Cold War Studies. The 639 page official history provides an account of the KGB and its predecessor agencies -- in Russian, naturally -- from 1917 through the mid-1970s. See "Istoriya sovetskikh organov gosudarstvennoi bezopasnosti" edited by Lt. Gen. V.M. Chebrikov, et al, in thirteen very large PDF files here: http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~hpcws/KGBhistory.htm TIME OUT Secrecy News will resume publication the week of February 2. _______________________________________________ Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org with "subscribe" in the body of the message. OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html _______________________ Steven Aftergood Project on Government Secrecy Federation of American Scientists web: www.fas.org/sgp/index.html email: saftergood@fas.org voice: (202) 454-4691
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 21 Re: Dr. Fred Bell? - Myers From: Royce J. Myers III - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 11:58:53 -0800 Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 16:52:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Dr. Fred Bell? - Myers >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 20:58:22 -0400 >Subject: Re: Dr. Fred Bell? >>From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 09:10:47 -0500 >>Subject: Dr. Fred Bell? >>Last night, Coast to Coast AM, Barbara Simpson, host, had as >>guest Dr. Fred Bell. Dr. Bell's site and bio is here: >>http://www.pyradyne.com/fred.htm >>Dr. Bell claimed, and Barbara seemed persuaded, that over his >>life (he was born in 1943) he has not only provided significant >>contributions to every field of technology that exists (my >>description of his multi-field achievements), he has also been >>in very frequent contact with aliens, particularly Pleiadean >>aliens. >>His claimed achievements left me breathless. But his answers to >>Barbara's specific questions left me wondering if he is all he >>claims to be. >>Does anyone know if Dr. Bell is generally accepted as the multi- >>field expert and UFO contactee he claims to be? >Fred used to show up at various UFO expos making all kinds of >totally unsubstantiated claims. I remember one session that I >was chairing and I had to announce that Fred had cancelled and >would not be appearing. There was great appluse and approval! >I would have trouble believing anything he said. I've heard many stories about Fred Bell, all of them not good. The guy is apparently friends with Sean David Morton - that should tell you all you need to know right there. Just a small piece I found on Bell: "Another interesting example is Dr. Fred Bell. Bell not only claims to be in contact with the Pleiadian Semjase of Billy Meier fame, but to have had sexual liaisons with her. He was recently a guest on a local radio talk show to promote his appearance at a metaphysical festival here in Houston. Bell recounted some of the teachings of the Pleiadian "Space Brothers", although, curiously, the name of His Supreme Cosmic Highness Hatonn wasn't mentioned. It didn't take long before the usual kook-right propaganda began, including the obligatory slam at 'Zionists'. The host, to his credit, cut Bell off and apologized to his listeners with words to the affect of 'I thought he was going to talk about UFO's'." Regards, Royce J. Myers III UFOWATCDOG.COM
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 21 Were Red Lights A UFO? From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 21:47:58 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 16:53:19 -0500 Subject: Were Red Lights A UFO? Source: This Is Worcester http://www.thisisworcestershire.co.uk/worcestershire/worcester/news/WEN_NEWS= _LATEST7.html Stig *** Today is: Tuesday 21 January 2003 Were red lights a UFO in the city? ** A WORCESTER woman spotted a cluster of red lights high in the night sky, hovering above the city. Daphne Wright, of The Hill Avenue, Battenhall, watched the cloud of lights from her home for almost an hour last Wednesday. And she is curious to find out what it is. "I don't think it was a UFO but I'm just curious to find out what it was," said Mrs Wright. "I know it wasn't a plane because they move very fast and it would have been over the city like a shot. "I was drawing my curtains in my sitting room about 10.05pm and I looked up at the moon. "To my left, high in the sky, there was a collection of little red lights. "There was no sound and it was slow moving. "I waited for about 45 minutes before it went towards the city centre. It wasn't like a plane or anything I'd seen before. "It had an aura around it. It moved silently and it was going up and down. "I don't know what it was. It looked like a large Christmas decoration in the sky. Russell Allen, of The Mug House, Claines, says he might have the answer to Mrs Wright's query. The landlady's son says he has seen the lights, along with many other people across the city. "There's no set time for them but everyone who's seen them thinks they are linked with the nightclubs in the city," said Mr Allen. "It's something that's been going on for a while, at least eight months. "I've seen them myself and I'm 99.9 per cent certain that it's lasers." ** =A9 Copyright 2003 Newsquest Media Group - A Gannett Company
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 21 Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer - Gehrman From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 12:51:12 -0800 Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 16:54:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer - Gehrman >From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 15:01:35 -0400 >Subject: Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer >As for Corso. It's too bad the man didn't live long enough to >answer questions. But he's been popping up once a year like >clockwork for the last 4 years, and I'm just tired of hearing >the same old arguments. Don, The reason Corso and "the same old arguments" keep coming up is the refusal , by many, to keep an open mind or even read "The Day after Roswell' before they add their two cents. I want to hear what Laurel has to say about the head-gear debris, but that discussion will be muted by listers insisting that Corso's book and Corso are full of crap and shouldn't be discussed because they can tell a lie when they see one. I understand your point and don't plan to continue this discussion unless provoked, but lets give Laurel and others a chance to discuss the contents of Corso's troublesome memoir without derogatory remarks. Ed
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 21 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 4 From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 17:09:48 +0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 16:56:48 -0500 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 4 Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor. <Masinaigan@aol.com> ========================== UFO ROUNDUP Volume 8, Number 4 January 22, 2003 Editor: Joseph Trainor http://www.ufoinfo.com SPHERICAL UFO SIGHTED IN SOUTHERN BRAZIL On Saturday, January 18, 2003, at about 10 p.m., observers in the city of Curitiba, capital of the state of Parana in southern Brazil, spotted a spherical, self- luminous UFO over their neighborhoods. According to eyewitness Arthur Domingues Quieroz, "At 10:05 p.m., I was watching TV" at his home in the bairro O Centro (neighborhood) "when a strange object in the sky caught my attention. I observed for ten minutes a spherical object glowing in a color ranging from yellow to yellow-green. During this time, the object made several movements from a high altitude to a low altitude. Also, it made sudden side movements to the right and then descended to a lower altitude at an oblique angle." Elsewhere in the city, eyewitness Sergio Valdemar reported, "I was in the bairro Portao (neighborhood) when I saw the same movements, which were made by a self- luminous object that crossed the sky at a rapid speed." Curitiba is located about 400 kilometers (250 miles) southwest of Sao Paulo, which is the largest city in South America. (Muito obrigado a Ufologia Brasileira por esos casos.) (Editor's Comment: Welcome to Hitting Below the Equator Week at UFO Roundup. Last week the aliens made their presence felt all over Earth's southern hemisphere. Read on...) THREE RED-ORANGE UFOs SPOTTED OVER SYDNEY On Monday, January 13, 2003, at 11:10 p.m., two people spotted a trio of red-orange UFOs over Sydney, the largest city in Australia. Paul Van Komen, who lives in the suburbs west of Sydney's Central Business District, reported, "Dominika went outside to move the garden sprinkler. Walking back, she looked up to absorb a clear view of the Moon and Orion's Belt in a gap in the clouds when she noticed three spheres below the clouds to the east of us and called out to me." "I joined her outside," Paul added, "It was immediately apparent that this was not normal air traffic. They glowed orange-red, made no sound and travelled slowly in a westerly direction." "The first sphere was larger and maintained a steady speed and luminosity. The other two stopped occasionally and dimmed and brightened. They took a couple of minutes to get about 10 kilometers (6 miles) west of us, then faded and disappeared. They were several times larger than airplanes. Normal air traffic was absent for another half-hour after." Paul estimated the UFOs' speed as "about 100 kilometers per hour" (60 miles per hour--J.T.) (Email Form Report) DAYLIGHT DISC CAUGHT ON FILM IN NEW ZEALAND "Is it a bra, is it some panties...no, it's an unidentified flying object." "Cardona's 'bra fence' has attracted worldwide attention since it hit the headlines same time a year ago, but a photograph taken last month (December 2002) has some people questioning whether word has spread even further." "Dunedin man Tom Ueyama noticed an odd sight in a photograph he took of the fence on (Friday) December 27 (2002)." "The photo clearly shows 'something' in the sky, which, to the untrained eye, resembles the shape of a flying saucer." "'I don't believe in aliens and extraterrestrial beings, but there's something in this photo that's not right,' Mr. Ueyama said." "He did not notice the object when he was taking the photograph and claims the image has not been tampered with. Inspection of the photograph and negative did not show any signs of doctoring." "Carters Observatory senior astronomer Brian Carter said he had doubts about its authenticity." "'I suggest the photo has been doctored, but I'm no expert with photographs.'" "'If it is genuine, then I have no idea what it is or could be,' Mr. Carter said." "University of Otago optics technician and amateur astronomer Robin Gledhill could also not reach a conclusion but did not believe the image had been doctored." "'As an astronomer, I don't believe in UFOs, but I can't honestly say what it is. It doesn't appear to be moving, whatever it is, and it's definitely not cloud.'" Dunedin is on the east coast of New Zealand's South Island, located about 160 miles (256 kilometers) south- southwest of Christchurch. (See the Otago Daily Times for January 14, 2003, "UFO over the bra fence?" Merci beaucoup a Robert Fischer pour cette article de journal.) (Editor's Note: The Otago region around Dunedin has long been a major UFO hotspot in New Zealand. It was the site of a major "airship" flap way back in July 1909.) UFOs AND USOs CONVERGE ON PAPUA NEW GUINEA "Local police have received constant reports by tribesmen of unidentified flying objects (UFOs) and unidentified submerged objects (USOs) in the southwestern province of the island nation" of Papua New Guinea, just north of Australia across the Arafura Sea. The reports are coming from the Fly River region, located 600 kilometers (360 miles) west-northwest of Port Moresby, the national capital. The UFOs seen in daylight have been described as silver spheres and discs. Those seen at night are reported to be "luminous" and "glowing." The USOs sighted by fishermen at the mouth of the Fly River south of Balimo are described as "fast-moving submarines without conning towers." "The report stated that Police Commander John Marru declared that he had received numerous reports, principally from the Fly River area, without even obtaining a satisfactory answer despite intensive on-site investigations of each and every case." "Marru said he had passed on all of the reports to the Australian Federal Police and to (Australia's) National Intelligence Organization and Defense Intelligence Organization without receiving any reply from these agencies." (See the Post-Courier of Port Moresby for January 7, 2003. Also NotiOVNI for January 12, 2003. Muchas gracias a Daniel Munoz para eso articulo de diario.) UFO PHOTOS STUDIED AT MEXICAN CONFERENCE On Wednesday and Thursday, January 15 and 16, 2003, Mexican ufologists held a conference at the Teatro de Segura Social in Monterrey, capital of Mexico's northeastern state of Nuevo Leon. Ufologist and television journalist Jaime Maussan presented UFO photos to the audience. "One of the most recent items of evidence is an unknown object seen (Monday) December 23 (2002) over Mexico City." "'It was apparently a meteorite, but it was videotaped for over five minutes, making it impossible that it could indeed be a meteorite. It was something unexplained, and it fell to Earth,'" Maussan said. "'If I had seen it coming down, I would have believed (I had seen) the end of the world. It is said that it measured about 50 meters (165 feet), but it could have been well over a hundred meters (330 feet) and it was 100 kilometers (60 miles) away and progressed at a rate of 600 kilometers (360 miles) per second. A meteorite (only) travels at 70 kilometers (42 miles) a second.'" Maussan also presented "a photograph taken at El Alamo by Sr. Ivan Geraldo." "'The photo shows a very small, strange figure of a being that looks at the people who have the camera. 'Some say this is a hoax and can prove it; others say it is real and can prove it. Javier Niebla, who is perhaps the best video analyst in Mexico, says it's fake, while Dan Airia (sic), an expert in the U.S., says it is real,'" Maussan said. Maussan "explained that the person who took the photo never saw the being that appears in the print since they were using their camera to scare away a skunk." (See the Mexican newspaper El Norte for January 12, 2003, "Maussan's new extraterrestrial." Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales para eso articulo de diario.) MAN SEES A HOVERING UFO IN BUFFALO, NEW YORK On Monday, January 13, 2003, "late at night," Robert J. reported, "There was a light in the sky approaching from the northwest" in his home city of Buffalo, N.Y. (population 292,648). I thought it was an airplane, but then it stopped in mid-air. I turned on my flashlight (torch in UK and Australia--J.T.) and observed an upside- down-bowl-like flying thing. It had a long rounded tower at the top, and what appeared to be a 'gun' of some kind at the bottom. It was pretty close. Then I dove into my truck and saw it head south" toward Lackawanna, N.Y. "I was really scared," Robert noted, adding that the UFO was "gray color, bowl-shaped, 'gun'-like object at the bottom, also a tower on top. I think it had windows, too. It was 750 feet off the ground" and traveling at "400 miles (640 kilometers) per hour when departing." (Email Form Report) LUMINOUS UFO SIGHTED IN NORTHERN IRELAND On Thursday, January 16, 2003, at 6:20 p.m., the witness was outdoors in Portadown, a city in County Armagh, Northern Ireland, UK "when something approached from east to west. It was a solitary 'light bulb' travelling very fast and absolutely silent. It was below cloud level, perhaps 600 feet (180 meters) up, and had an estimated speed of between 1,000 and 1,400 miles (1,600 to 2,240 kilometers) per hour." (Email Form Report) THREE NEW MOONS FOUND ORBITING NEPTUNE "A team of Canadian and American astronomers has found three moons around the planet Neptune, bringing the number of known moons orbiting the distant planet to 11." "The tiny moons, ranging from 18 to 24 miles (30 to 40 kilometers) across, are 100 million times fainter than objects that can be seen with the naked eye and were too faint to be seen by Voyager 2 when it flew by in 1989." "The moons were detected using multiple-exposure images taken by telescopes in Chile and Hawaii. They appear to be part of a 'family' of moons caused by the collision of a comet or asteroid with a bigger moon, said one of the discoverers, J.J. Kavelaars of the National Research Council of Canada." "The new moons join an oddball constellation of (natural) satellites around Neptune. The planet's largest moon, Triton, is strange because it is the only large satellite in the solar system to circle a planet in a direction opposite to the rotation of the planet. At 435 degrees (Fahrenheit) below zero, the moon (Triton) is even colder than Pluto. It is about one-third the size of our Moon and has giant geysers that send plumes of dust and gas into the air for miles." Neptune's "second-largest moon, Nereid, has the most eccentric orbit of any object in the solar system. Astronomers are now studying the newly-discovered moons to determine their orbits." (See the Duluth, Minn. News- Tribune for January 19, 2003, "Astronomers find three new Neptune moons," page 15A.) WEIRD AURORA OBSERVED ON A MOON OF JUPITER "Astronomers report new insights into the aurora on Jupiter's fiery moon, Io." "Io, the most volcanic locale in our solar system, has an aurora at its equator, unlike the northern lights (Aurora borealis--J.T.) on Earth." "Hubble Space Telescope measurements reveal the lights arise on the (Jovian) moon because of Jupiter's magnetic field interacting with sulfur particles in Io's volcanic atmosphere, says Johns Hopkins University physicist Kurt Retherford, who reported his findings last week at the American Astronomical Society meeting." "The lights dim with the collapse of Io's atmosphere as it enters into eclipse on the far side of Jupiter." "Analysis of the magnetic field interests astronomers who hope it reveals the inner composition" of Jupiter, "the largest planet in our solar system and offers clues on how such massive planets form." (See USA Today for January 14, 2003, "Io's aurora could shed light on Jupiter," page 8D.) READER FEEDBACK: RECENT AUSTRALIAN UFOs WERE JUST U.S. NAVY SATELLITES UFO Roundup readers in Australia have the answer to the recent "UFO sightings" in Ponto, New South Wales and Buchan, Victoria. John writes, "The report from Australia in your January 15 (2003) edition is obviously of the NOSS trio, which are secret U.S. Navy spy satellites that move in a fixed 'triangular formation.'" "As keen skywatchers, my wife and I have seen exactly the same thing from the same area. It is a spectacular sight, but they are only satellites. It is presumptuous to say 'they spotted some UFOs' (although they would be unidentified to those who are unaware of what they are--John). A Google search for 'NOSS trio' will confirm what I say." "I enjoy reading your UFO Roundup." James, who has been plotting the objects' trajectory since the first report from Ponto, N.S.W., writes, "I updated my analysis based upon the corroborating information from your new sighting report. It helps to confirm that it's a sighting of NOSS." (See UFO Roundup, volume 8, number 2 for January 8, 2003, "Three UFOs sighted in New South Wales," page 2; and UFO Roundup, volume 8, number 3 for January 15, 2003, "More star-like UFOs seen in Australia," page 3.) From the UFO Files... 1924: IRAQ'S MYSTERIOUS SPOOK LIGHT Paranormal researchers Beth Scott and Michael Norman noted that "anomalous lights, such as the Hornet Spook Light, have been reported all over the world for thousands of years. Some experts believe that these lights are electrical atmospheric charges generated by the shifting and grinding of rocks deep below the earth's crust. The distorted electrical field that results from these charges can make the light appear to act in an 'intelligent' way, changing direction and altitude and giving chase." Here in the USA, the three most famous spook lights are near Hornet, Missouri; Maco, North Carolina and Marfa, Texas. There is a similar spook light in Iraq, as well. Few regions on Earth are as desolate as the western desert in Iraq's Al-Anbar province. Lying between the Wadi Hawran in the north and the Wadi al-Ghudal in the south, that stretch of desert between Rutba and Ramadi has about as many palm trees as it has polar bears. In January 1924, an armored car patrol of the British Army "was slowly winding its way through the bleak sand dunes of the Mesopotamian Desert. It was a January afternoon, and a cold rain fell from a leaden sky." "With the patrol was famed anthropologist Henry Field, long associated with Chicago's Field Museum (now the Chicago Museum of Natural History--V.H.G.) He had received permission from Air Vice Marshal Sir John Higgins (of the RAF) to join the patrol as he searched for prehistoric flint implements." "In the midst of the rain came hailstones. Clinging to the lurching car with numb hands, Field was looking toward the northwest when he saw a vivid green light appear in the sky. It resembled a Very light (flare in the USA--J.T.) used as a distress signal by Royal Air Force planes and patrols." "Field told his companions what he had observed, and the patrol stopped. As he was speaking, the light appeared again, high in the air--a brilliant green. It hovered for a few seconds over the sands, then faded away." "'Some of our boys may be in trouble, or it could be the natives (Arabs) playing with stolen equipment,' said the commanding officer, 'We'll investigate.'" "The patrol reached the area where the light had appeared. Back and forth, with occasional signals, the (armored) cars covered the area in a search pattern. No tracks were found. Nothing was seen or heard." "Later, at Rutba Fort, RAF headquarters in Baghdad was radioed and all planes were instructed to keep a watch west of Ramadi. Nothing that could have explained the lights was ever seen or reported." "Twenty years later--in 1946--Field was with a group of desert caravan drivers (Bedouins) in Damascus (Syria). The drivers told the scientist that they were well acquainted with the strange reappearing light near Ramadi." "Some of the Bedouins had seen it three or four times. In earlier years, they had searched unsuccessfully for a downed plane or occupants of a car in distress." "'Now,' said a veteran driver, 'we just wave at it and drive on. We have no idea what it is. Many mysteries lie in the desert. The light is one.'" (See the books Mysterious Fires and Lights by Vincent H. Gaddis, Dell Publishing Co., New York, N.Y., 1967, pages 76 and 77; The Track of Man by Henry Field, Doubleday and Co., New York, N.Y., 1953 and Haunted Heartland by Beth Scott and Michael Norman, Barnes & Noble Books, New York, N.Y., 1985, page 307.) Well, that's it for this week. Join us in seven days for more UFO, Fortean and paranormal news from around the planet Earth, brought to you by "the paper that goes home--UFO Roundup." See you then. UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2003 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post news items from UFO Roundup on their websites or in news groups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue in which the item first appeared. E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com> or use the Sighting Report Form at: http://www.ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Website comments: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> UFOINFO: http://www.ufoinfo.com Official Archives of UFO Roundup, AUFORN Australian UFO Reports and Experiences, UFO + PSI Magazine, plus archives of Filer's Files, Oz Files, UFO News UK and UFO Sightings Italia. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- UFO Roundup is only sent to subscribers. If you wish to unsubscribe or feel you have received the bulletin in error, please write to: <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> With the subject: Unsubscribe UFO Roundup. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 22 Re: Dr. Fred Bell? - White From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 17:06:41 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 06:48:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Dr. Fred Bell? - White >From: Royce J. Myers III - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 11:58:53 -0800 >Subject: Re: Dr. Fred Bell? <snip> >Just a small piece I found on Bell: >"Another interesting example is Dr. Fred Bell. Bell not only >claims to be in contact with the Pleiadian Semjase of Billy >Meier fame, but to have had sexual liaisons with her. He was >recently a guest on a local radio talk show to promote his >appearance at a metaphysical festival here in Houston. Bell >recounted some of the teachings of the Pleiadian "Space >Brothers", although, curiously, the name of His Supreme Cosmic >Highness Hatonn wasn't mentioned. It didn't take long before the >usual kook-right propaganda began, including the obligatory slam >at 'Zionists'. The host, to his credit, cut Bell off and >apologized to his listeners with words to the affect of 'I >thought he was going to talk about UFO's'." Thanks, Royce, we're all very fortunate you're on the job! Eleanor White
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 22 Re: Alien 'Proof' Rejected As Hype - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 19:34:54 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 06:56:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Alien 'Proof' Rejected As Hype - Ledger >From: John Winterflood <jwinter@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> >Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 23:26:13 +0800 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: Alien 'Proof' Rejected As Hype >>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>)" >>Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 17:46:16 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Alien 'Proof' Rejected As Hype >There are plenty of bright sources - planets on the far side of >the sun are just as readily observed (although maybe not as >bright) as those on the near side, as are also many stars. The >purpose of the satellite is to image the sun's corona and so the >sensitivity of the CCD is set for this area which will inevitably >mean that most luminous objects will be over-exposed (and dim >objects under-exposed). If I remember rightly, it is around >Christmas time that our milky way passes behind the sun from the >point of view of the satellite and so at this time there are a lot >more stars than usual to be seen in the background. >There are readily available astronomy software packages (such as >Mathematica's Scientific Astronomer - not cheap!) that one could >plug the satellite orbital parameters into, enter the time and >date (which is given with each satellite photo file), and plot >the expected picture of the satellites field of view in the >vicinity of the sun. This would allow immediate identification >of all planets and stars in all the interesting satellite >photographs which could then be culled to see if there are any >really interesting ones left over (with unexpected asteroids or >even UFOs). One could immediately floor any skeptic like Prof >Simnett that suggested the image might be of a planet or a star >simply by displaying the image predicted from the astronomy >software. If EUROSETI has not done this minimal amount of >checking before their big presentation to the public, then I >reckon they deserve all the ridicule they might get for being so >careless. Hi John, I think we're jumping the gun anyway. They claim there are 700 plus images that are anomalous. Perhaps it's best to wait until they are all available. I realize there are stars and planets that can be seen by SOHO depending on when they come into its field-of-view. But I'd be more inclined to believe some up close grain of dust or perhaps [though I don't see the likelihood of this] ice flakes. There are mass, inertia or gyroscopic control mechanisms being used to orientate or reorient the satellite as well as thrusters. SOHO went off axis at one point. I've inquired of one who might have some answers about whether the realignment might have cause some problems with SOHO or jarred loose particles that have been orbiting around it. But there are non-aligned anomalies as well. It's also my understanding that there are multi-frame shots of the same object. While I'm at it - someone provided the online logs of the NASA logs pertaining to strange or anomalous objects spotted by the SOHO camera. I promptly lost that URL. If anyone knows what it was would they please email it to me. The comments were quite interesting. Best, Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 22 Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 19:54:21 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 07:00:18 -0500 Subject: Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer - Ledger >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 12:51:12 -0800 >Subject: Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer >>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 15:01:35 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer >>As for Corso. It's too bad the man didn't live long enough to >>answer questions. But he's been popping up once a year like >>clockwork for the last 4 years, and I'm just tired of hearing >>the same old arguments. >Don, >The reason Corso and "the same old arguments" keep coming up is >the refusal , by many, to keep an open mind or even read "The >Day after Roswell' before they add their two cents. >I want to hear what Laurel has to say about the head-gear >debris, but that discussion will be muted by listers insisting >that Corso's book and Corso are full of crap and shouldn't be >discussed because they can tell a lie when they see one. >I understand your point and don't plan to continue this >discussion unless provoked, but lets give Laurel and others a >chance to discuss the contents of Corso's troublesome memoir >without derogatory remarks. Okay Ed. For you, one more time. Best, Don
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 22 Re: Dr. Fred Bell? - Maccabee From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 19:15:36 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 07:03:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Dr. Fred Bell? - Maccabee >From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 09:10:47 -0500 >Subject: Dr. Fred Bell? >Last night, Coast to Coast AM, Barbara Simpson, host, had as >guest Dr. Fred Bell. Dr. Bell's site and bio is here: >http://www.pyradyne.com/fred.htm >Dr. Bell claimed, and Barbara seemed persuaded, that over his >life (he was born in 1943) he has not only provided significant >contributions to every field of technology that exists (my >description of his multi-field achievements), he has also been >in very frequent contact with aliens, particularly Pleiadean >aliens. >His claimed achievements left me breathless. But his answers to >Barbara's specific questions left me wondering if he is all he >claims to be. >Does anyone know if Dr. Bell is generally accepted as the multi- >field expert and UFO contactee he claims to be? I thought you were referring to the guy who invented the voice stress analyzer, also named Fred Bell, I think. Then I read his site. <LOL> One thing among many stood out: he claims to have been a consultant to 3000 companies. I wonder! If he spent only 1 day consulting for each that would take about 8 years. Of course he could do several consultations per day I suppose. However, I know consultants and have been one myself. To be a valuable consultant one has to spend time studying the problem one is hired to study, one has to attend meetings or spend time on the phone, etc. Point: sounds to me more like self agrandizement than fact. And, by the way, "Dr" of what, from where, and in what area of studies? His claimed exploits and abilities and accomplishments make me wonder if this guy is another 'Dr.' Michael Wolf, who also claimed to have a string of accomplishments. Wolf claimed several Ph.D's plus being a neurosurgeon, if I recall correctly, and also an Air Force Colonel as well as consultant to national agencies on UFOs... enough careers for several people, too many for one person.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 22 BUFOSC UFO Video Footage From: Eric Morris <bufosc@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 00:17:29 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 07:11:30 -0500 Subject: BUFOSC UFO Video Footage PRESS RELEASE BUFOSC are at the centre of an exciting piece of news tonight. Since early January 2003 BUFOSC (The British UFO Studies Centre) based in Northwich,Cheshire have been investigating a series of UFO sightings over the North-West of Britain. Some UFO sightings have also been reported to BUFOSC on December 28th 2002. BUFOSC, carrying out vital field research carried out some video recording of the December 2002, and January 2003 sightings last week and brought the footage home. The footage is alarming. Although BUFOSC reported nothing extraordinary whilst filming, when shown on television and tonight on widescreen and high quality freeze frame action, by BUFOSC member and television engineer Rick Swiderski, Morris seeking the opinion of two BUFOSC members (Rick and Sue Swiderski) after deliberating over the footage for almost a week, the footage clearly shows two daylight discs in the exact area where the reported sightings of December and January were observed. Morris has contacted Daily Mail Reported Adam Powell who carried an article titled "The UFO that turned up for Sunday lunch" on Wednesday 19th July 2000 (Page 27), which featured video footage Cinema Manager Carl Woods shot in July 2000 over Hartford,Cheshire. The footage was shown on BBC News North West on Tuesday 18th July by Gordon Burns. Morris states this new footage is better than that, again shot over Cheshire where there is a deep history of UFO sightings. Morris stunned a packed audience on Tuesday 14th January at BUFOSC's monthly meetings in Runcorn relating to the December 2002 and January 2003 sightings, and a few days later BUFOSC Founder Eric Morris shot this amazing new footage. It is hoped the Daily Mail or another national newspaper of television network will be interested in showing this new UFO footage, Morris states. The Daily Mail appear to be the only newspaper interested in UFO articles, regularly James Chapman writes articles and a Daily Mail Reporter on November 29th 2002 featured an article titled "UFO scare they didn't want you to know about", reflecting the Rendlesham Forest incident of December 1980 and the MOD's release of the three remaining original documents they kept hidden for years.What the article never stated was that it was BUFOSC Founder Morris who got these documents released by the MOD via the Ombudsman!. This new footage is exciting and no doubt there will be the debunkers who will state BUFOSC are after some publicity and the tape is hoaxed.Morris states that any video or photographic analisists can study the tape and will see there is no tampering with it at all. BUFOSC are going to show the footage at their next meeting at the Waterloo Community Centre Runcorn on February 11th 2003, and no doubt there will be standing room only. It is a surprise Fortean Times stated there is no interest in Ufology anymore, I am sure Dennis Plunkett of the British Flying Saucer Bureau will be interested in this footage, Morris states. BUFOSC Press Release Wednesday 22nd January 2003. Eric Morris BUFOSC Founder
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 22 Re: Something In The Air Tonight - Letter To The From: Grant Cameron <presidentialufo@canada.com> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 18:38:23 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 07:20:38 -0500 Subject: Re: Something In The Air Tonight - Letter To The >From: Palmiro Campagna <c102jetliner@excite.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 19:49:02 -0500 (EST) >Subject: Pearson Intrigued By UFOs - Letter To The >Editor >The Globe And Mail >Mon Jan.20,2003 >Page: A14 >Letter to the Editor >Edition: Metro >Dateline: Ottawa ON >Pearson v. The Martians >Palmiro Campagna >Ottawa Re: Something In The Air Tonight... (Jan. 17): >I read with great interest the recent article concerning Prime >Minister Lester Pearson's interest in Unidentified Flying >Objects. In fact, the Pearson government was being inundated >with letters from inquisitive Canadians on this very subject, so >it is not unusual for the PM to have requested an update. Then >again, perhaps his interest was more than that. >In his Nobel Peace Prize winning speech of 1957, he said: >"A common fear, however, which usually means a common >foe, is also, regrettably, the strongest force bringing people >together, but in opposition to something or someone. Perhaps >there is a hopeful possibility here in the conquest of outerspace. >Interplanetary activity may give us planetary peace. >Once we discover Martian space ships hovering over Earth's >airspace, we will all come together. 'How dare they threaten us >like this?' we shall shout, as one, at a really United Nations!" >Author The <UFO>Files: The Canadian Connection The Minister of Defense at the time - 1966 - was Paul Hellyer. He has now stated, in response to this latest Pearson revelation, that he might have given Prime Minister Pearson a UFO briefing but can't remember. According to Hellyer "There were a lot of things cooking in those days." Helleyer, it appears, has a selective memory. In 1967 the year after the possible UFO briefing to the head of the country, he got up at the opening of a UFO landing pad in St. Paul Alberta, and stated that the Canadian government had opened a Top Secret base in Suffield Alberta for UFOs to land in 1954. When I showed the that news story to Wilbert Smith's wife, she said Wilbert was behind the idea of the flying saucer welcoming committee. Mrs Smith told me that the Prime Minister of that day St. Laurent and his cabinet were also involved. When I and a second researcher pressed Hellyer for the Suffield UFO story and the all important UFO file, he stated that he had forgotten the name of the UFO expert in the Defense Department who had told him the story. Bray stayed in contact with him and kept up the pressure. Hellyer promised to look for the UFO file in his papers then being turned over to the archives in Ottawa. When he went to look for the UFO file at the national archives, he wrote back stating he couldn't find it. I can't say Arthur and I were actually holding our breath. The entire story is at: http://presidentialufo.com/affa_landing.htm Oh what tangled webs we weave..... P.S. Pearson one of three Nobel Peace Prize winners involved with UFOs. The second was Jimmy Carter, and the third was Cordell Hull who supposedly showed someone alien bodies under the Capitol in 1939. http://presidentialufo.com/roosevelt.htm The Presidents UFO Story www.presidentialufo.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 22 Re: Dr. Fred Bell? - Gates From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 01:16:21 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 07:47:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Dr. Fred Bell? - Gates >From: Royce J. Myers III - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 11:58:53 -0800 >Subject: Re: Dr. Fred Bell? <snip> >I've heard many stories about Fred Bell, all of them not good. > The guy is apparently friends with Sean David Morton - that >should tell you all you need to know right there. >Just a small piece I found on Bell: >"Another interesting example is Dr. Fred Bell. Bell not only >claims to be in contact with the Pleiadian Semjase of Billy >Meier fame, but to have had sexual liaisons with her. He was Gives new meaning to the phrase "pumping the audience." >recently a guest on a local radio talk show to promote his >appearance at a metaphysical festival here in Houston. Bell >recounted some of the teachings of the Pleiadian "Space >Brothers", although, curiously, the name of His Supreme Cosmic >Highness Hatonn wasn't mentioned. It didn't take long before the >usual kook-right propaganda began, including the obligatory slam >at 'Zionists'. The host, to his credit, cut Bell off and >apologized to his listeners with words to the affect of 'I >thought he was going to talk about UFO's'." Sounds like he is a Billy Meir protoge so to speak. Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 22 Re: Corso - Oplatka From: Laurel Oplatka <calabash2003@webtv.net> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 01:53:33 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 07:53:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Oplatka >From: Colin Bennett <sharkley@panzerben.fsworld.co.uk> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 10:54:41 -0000 >Subject: Re: Corso Dear Colin, I thank you whole-heartedly for your recent ultra-sane, mind/psyche expanding, often flat-out hilarious and iconoclastically intelligent post! Yes, it was a truly (along with your other List posts) delightful, entertaining, absorbing, and unequivocably "wide" read. It now lives in my "Saved" Webtv folder. First, with all due respect to Dick Hall, I have to disagree with his evaluation of your satirical powers, i.e., "Jonathan Swift, he ain't".. no, you are not, because, in my opinion, you have surpassed Swift in both wit and souffulness. Initially, I found the humor (which possesses a surrealistic Monty Pythonesque subtext, and is reminiscent of the audacious satire of William S. Burroughs), in your prose to be a kind of "secondary gain", but now it's experienced as being representative of the Marshall McCluhan syndrome. In the 1960's, McCluhan's "The Medium is the Message" came to the fore in many discussions relating to Kubrick's film, "2001: A Space Odyssey" which was deemed a prime and apt example of his (McCluhan's) "communications theory". I see this process at work here in your writings, Colin - in that your prose, to me, is experientially expansive. The style (form) and content of your writing IS "one". Through the very artistry and inventiveness of your prose, the "essence" of post modernism is "expressed" and may be experienced by the reader who opens to it. And this is perhaps somewhat akin to Magonia Rimmer's comment re: J. Keel - "Keel himself forms part of the events he reports." Further, it has occurred to me that you, Colin Bennett, are to "Ufology" what R. D. Laing is to Psychiatry. In his book, "The Politics of Experience", Laing (as noted by Rollo May), "goes beyond the usual theories of mental illness and alienation, and makes a convincing case for the "madness of morality". Your "Objective factualism is but one game" and "My genes are far older than mechanisms" observations are reflected philosophically in this excerpt from Laing, ("Transcendental Experience") about a man (as recorded by Karl Jaspers), who underwent a sort of mental breakdown in an attempt to bring himself closer to his higher source of life. He did not undergo conventional psychoanalysis or "treatment", but rather, through his own efforts, overcame his affliction and experienced an "illumination". This enabled him to experience, via transcendental mode, " a self just like that of other people (which) grew in me again but behind and above it stood a greater and more comprehensive self which impressed me with something of what is eternal, unchanging, immortal and inviolable..... I believe it would be good for many if they were acquainted with such a higher self and that there are people who have attained this goal in fact by kinder means". This, to me, expresses pleasingly an example of one aspect of PM. And I found relevant to your appeals (aimed at some of your detractors), these ponderings of Laing: "Many people (used to) believe that the "seat" of the soul was somewhere in the brain. Since brains began to be opened up frequently, no one has seen "the soul". As a result of this and like revelations, many people do not now believe in the soul. Who could suppose that angels move the stars, or be so superstitious as to suppose that because one cannot see one's soul at the end of a microscope it does not exist?" But I do not think your intent is to say that science is to be supplanted in toto, am I right? To my sensibilities, this "issue" is not an either/or proposition. Does this not echo the suggestion of Mac Tommies: "Bennett's 'Looking for Orthon' and Hynek's 'UFO Experience' are equally relevant" ? If they are not found to be mutually exclusive, then, in considering both of these works, could not (much of) today's Ufology be synthesized and ultimately transcended into some sort of (not to be cliche') new paradigm? There are some writers who use as their sole reference something like Espenshade's (mechanical) "Composition and Rhetoric".... and there are others, such as yourself, (erudite, anachronism- busting, richly open) who have absolutely exceeded, say, Ray Bradbury's approach in "Zen In the Art of Writing". When more than one "mode of reality" is widely considered, when PM is no longer trounced, when the 'inner and outer' are somehow conjoined (not in the pseudo-esoteric cultish sense), when what? (Please fill in blank____), If and when the these "events" occur, perhaps (then) we won't be ruined. To this end, here is Laing again: "As a whole we are a generation of men (and women - my addition) so estranged from the inner world that many are arguing that it does not exist; and that even if it does exist, it does not matter. Even if it has some significance, it is not the hard stuff of science, and if it is not, then let's make it hard. Let it be counted and measured. Quantify the heart's agony and ecstacy in a world in which, when the inner world is first discovered, we are liable to find ourselves bereft and derelict. For without the inner, the outer loses its meaning, and without the outer, the inner loses its substance." Colin, all of the above is why I dig your Orthon, your poetry, your posts and your persistence. My Next Question: As you mentioned, the subject of one of your upcoming projects is the analysis of the Randle/Friedman dialogs. Do you think that some chunks (re: content) of the Hall (polite and unflappable here)/Rudiak debates (Ramey Memo), and the Hansen/Goldstein deliberations are mirrored versions (or as Dick would have it,"subsets" - just kiddin') of the original Corso- generated Bennett/Hall wars? Best Regards to you, your group and all pets, Laurel Oplatka
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 22 X-PPAC Media Forward 01-21-03 From: Stephen Bassett <ExPPAC@aol.com> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 20:02:09 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 07:57:27 -0500 Subject: X-PPAC Media Forward 01-21-03 X-PPAC Extraterrestrial Phenomena Political Action Committee X-PPAC is forwarding this internet release to its media list because it represents a significant development in the politics of disclosure. Each year new journalists and researchers are bringing their talent and expertise to bear on the single most important issue and the single most important news story in the world today, i.e., Leslie Kean, Richard Dolan, Terry Hansen, and now Dr. Michael Salla. It is time for the rest of their colleagues to join in. Stephen Bassett Ex. Director ___________________________________________________ Internet Release - January 20, 2003 Former American University Professor releases Research Study of Extraterrestrial Conspiracy Theories and the Implications for Policy Makers and Global Peace Dr Michael E. Salla a former Assistant Professor in the School of International Service, American University (1996-2001), has completed a two year independent study of popular conspiracy theories of an extraterrestrial presence, and clandestine government efforts to repress news of such a presence. His study focuses on four sets of conspiracy theories and the evidentiary support for each. His research conclusion is that two of the four have sufficient evidentiary support to merit close scrutiny of their implications for policy makers. The Study makes the following policy recommendations: First, the evidence substantiating an ET presence and non- disclosure by clandestine government organizations, demonstrates a need for exopolitics as a field of public policy devoted to analyzing the policy implications of the ET presence. Second, there is a need to promote official government disclosure of an ET presence, and to make more representative the policy making process that has evolved in clandestine government responses to such a presence. Third, there is a need to reveal the full nature of national security policies undertaken by clandestine government organizations in militarily responding to the ET presence, while keeping the general public and elected officials uninformed of these military activities. Fourth, there is a need to release into the public arena all knowledge about alternative energy sources which have a commercial application but are withheld on national security grounds. Finally, there needs to be an effort in establishing congressional oversight of clandestine decision making concerning an ET presence. An online version of the Research Study is available at: http://www.exopolitics.org/ To contact Dr Salla, email: DrSalla@exopolitics.org or phone 202-363-9279 _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ X-PPAC 4938 Hampden Lane, #161, Bethesda, MD 20814 Phone: 301-990-4290 Cell: 202-431-2459 Exppac@aol.com www.x-ppac.org
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 22 Sheer Lunacy From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 08:07:17 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 08:07:17 -0500 Subject: Sheer Lunacy http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=0007467E-C454-1E1C-8B3B809EC588EEDF&c atID=2 February 2003 issue Sheer Lunacy Which is nuttier: denying we ever went to the moon or trying to convince the true nonbelievers? By Steve Mirsky Once upon a time - July 20, 1969, to be specific - two earthlings got out of their little spaceship and wandered around on the moon for a while. Ten more earthlings walked on the moon over the next three and a half years. The End. Unfortunately, not quite. A fair number of Americans think that this whole business of moon landings really is a fairy tale. They believe that the moon landings were a big hoax staged on a set in the Mojave Desert, perpetuated apparently to convince everyone that U.S. technology was the bestest in the whole wide world. Time to shave with Occam's razor. Which is the harder thing to do: Send men to the moon or make believe we did? The fact is, the brute-force physics behind blasting people to the moon is simple. You can do it with slide rules and with computers whose entire memory capacities can now fit on RAM chips the size of postage stamps and that cost about as much as, well, a postage stamp. I know you can, because we did. Nevertheless, last fall NASA considered spending $15,000 on what amounted to a public-relations campaign to convince the unimpressed that Americans had in fact gone to the moon. That idea was mostly a reaction to a Fox television program, first aired in February 2001, that claimed to expose the hoax. The show's creator is a publicity hound who has lived up to the name in more ways than one by hounding Buzz Aldrin. Mr. X (as I will call him, thereby denying him the joyous sight of his name in print) recently followed the second man on the moon around and called him "a thief, liar and coward" until the 72-year-old astronaut finally lost it and - bang, zoom, to the moon, Alice - punched the 37-year-old Mr. X in the face. Of course, the only Fox show that features good science is The Simpsons, on which Stephen Jay Gould, Stephen Hawking and, for that matter, Aldrin have all guest-starred, although there's some instructive physics in The World's Most Hilarious Fatal Car Crashes - or whatever they call this week's special in which large objects traveling at high speed smash into one another. The moon-hoax show claimed that 20 percent of Americans have doubts about whether we ever really went (apparently up from the 6 percent that a 1999 Gallup poll identified). At first glance, that number looks alarming, but I would estimate that 20 percent of Americans probably think that the Fox show Malcolm in the Middle is a documentary about a family in crisis. (Sonoma State University astronomer Phil Plait supplies the details of the moon-landing polls and many other related items on his excellent Web site, www.badastronomy.com Anyway, NASA's publicity campaign began to retrorocket as conspiracy theorists pointed to the effort as confirmation of something to hide and rational thinkers contended that $15,000 to convince people that the world was round - I mean, that we had gone to the moon - was simply a waste of money. (Actually, the $15,000 was supposed to pay for a rebuttal monograph by James E. Oberg, a serious astronomy writer who, with Aldrin, has contributed to Scientific American. As far as I'm concerned, paying a science writer is never a waste of money, but I'm severely prejudiced.) If NASA's not paying Oberg, perhaps it could put the money to good use by hiring two big guys to drag Neil Armstrong out of the house. Armstrong is an extremely private man, but he is also the first man on the moon, so maybe he has an obligation to be a bit more vocal about the experience. Or NASA could just buy Aldrin a nice plaque commemorating his most recent moon shot, in which his fist slipped the surly bonds of decorum and touched the face of Mr. X. C. 1996-2003 Scientific American, Inc. All rights reserved [UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 22 Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer - Connors From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 07:22:12 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 12:36:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer - Connors OK. I've seen the picture. Here's the solution to this mystery. Details located in top secret NORAD flight data. Dear Gen. Crotchwiggle, It has been reported by sources at the Polar Research Station that a Mr. S. Claus was conducting a preflight test prior to a December 24th mission. Said deer found wedged in the fork of a tree and one found on top of a telephone pole belong to Mr. Claus. They were neophytes being trained under the guidance of one Dasher and Blitzen, seasoned professional flying reindeer. Both Dasher and Blitzen are facing court marshal for dereliction of duty at an undisclosed location north of the research station. It is assumed Mr. S. Claus will be the officer in charge. Dasher and Blitzen are being represented by a Mr. Rudolph. Capt. Hoodwink Investigation Services NORAD Chuckle Dept. So there you have it. A UFO case solved in the grandest tradition of Philip the Klass. Wendy Connors
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 22 Re: Corso - Tonnies From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 07:15:00 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 12:39:35 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Tonnies >From: Laurel Oplatka <calabash2003@webtv.net> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 01:53:33 -0800 (PST) >Subject: Re: Corso <snip> >But I do not think your intent is to say that science is to be >supplanted in toto, am I right? To my sensibilities, this >"issue" is not an either/or proposition. Does this not echo the >suggestion of Mac Tommies: "Bennett's 'Looking for Orthon' and >Hynek's 'UFO Experience' are equally relevant"? If they are not >found to be mutually exclusive, then, in considering both of >these works, could not (much of) today's Ufology be synthesized >and ultimately transcended into some sort of (not to be cliche') >new paradigm? Whatever form this new paradigm takes, it will have to encompass the likelihood that UFOs are something altogether stranger than simply misidentified phenomena or "alien spaceships." Jacques Vallee has pointed out that the 'aliens' and their apparent frequency of activity (i.e., taking soil specimens, etc.) are inconsistent with ET visitors. Therefore he suggested that we're actually dealing with a multidimensional intelligence that's engaging us in a playful (?) metaphorical dialogue. By insinuatinmg themselves into our belief structures, 'they' (if this term is even applicable) have been able to hide from us by becoming our mythology. Possibilities like this demand a radically new and flexible paradigm, and it seems to me that the ideas of Bennett and George Hansen are on the right track. The UFO intelligence is indeed "liminal". It appears to require this in order to operate in a psychosocial context, disturbing intellectually fashionable "nuts and bolts" materialism but at the same time remaining just over our evidential horizon. Maybe we're dealing with literal ETs after all. But if we are, it appears they're involved in a long-term agenda much more portentous and subtle than simply checking out our nuclear installations, providing unsolicited health check-ups, and playing chicken with airplanes. ===== Mac Tonnies macbot@yahoo.com Transcelestial Ontology, Theoretical Ufology and Postmillennial Studies http://www.mactonnies.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 22 Re: Dr. Fred Bell? - Andersen From: Kathleen Andersen <KAnder6444@aol.com> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 11:07:44 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 12:59:46 -0500 Subject: Re: Dr. Fred Bell? - Andersen >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 19:15:36 -0500 >Subject: Re: Dr. Fred Bell? >His claimed exploits and abilities and accomplishments make me >wonder if this guy is another 'Dr.' Michael Wolf, who also >claimed to have a string of accomplishments. Wolf claimed >several Ph.D's plus being a neurosurgeon, if I recall correctly, >and also an Air Force Colonel as well as consultant to national >agencies on UFOs... enough careers for several people, too many >for one person. As Jacque Vallee said, it's all like a show, when one puppet act leaves the stage another one pops up. I guess it's sort of like skeet shooting, you knock one down and another one appears. Kathleen Andersen
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 22 Re: Dr. Fred Bell? - Lagasse From: Pierre Lagasse <jplagasse@jparchives.com> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 10:13:47 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 13:03:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Dr. Fred Bell? - Lagasse >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 01:16:21 EST >Subject: Re: Dr. Fred Bell? >>From: Royce J. Myers III - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 11:58:53 -0800 >>Subject: Re: Dr. Fred Bell? ><snip> >>I've heard many stories about Fred Bell, all of them not good. >>The guy is apparently friends with Sean David Morton - that >>should tell you all you need to know right there. >>Just a small piece I found on Bell: >>"Another interesting example is Dr. Fred Bell. Bell not only >>claims to be in contact with the Pleiadian Semjase of Billy >>Meier fame, but to have had sexual liaisons with her. He was >Sounds like he is a Billy Meir protoge so to speak. Hi List, That Fred Bell might be a Billy Meier protege (so to speak)? Most List subscribers will know what Meier would have to say about this, but for those who don't: Billy Meier's Plejaren contact information indicates that nobody on earth was in an ongoing contact situation with Semjase, except for Billy himself. I very much enjoy my subscription to this list !! Regards, Pierre Lagasse
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 22 Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer - Speiser From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 11:08:15 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 15:56:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer - Speiser >From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 15:01:35 -0400 >Subject: Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer >Wonder where this crap comes from. What lights was the "craft" >duplicating from above? That's a little weird on its own, right. >And what craft was this? This belief that there is fantastic >science being held in secret by the USAF/CIA or pick your poison >never fails to amaze me. Where's the history to support this >faith? How about Stealth technology in general, as an example from history? I, for one, don't find it all that outrageous a possiibility that the top of an airplane can act as one big camera and the bottom as one big monitor. It is not, however, an article of "faith" with me, just a possibility that needs to be dealt with and discarded before moving on to more "exotic" explanations. To me, it's not quite as silly as contemplating an advanced race of aliens traversing quadrillions of miles of space in order to place an animal on top of a pole. >As for Corso. It's too bad the man didn't live long enough to >answer questions. But he's been popping up once a year like >clockwork for the last 4 years, and I'm just tired of hearing >the same old arguments. As I recall, he actually did live at least a few months after the book came out, which should have given him plenty of time to make the talk-show circuit. Prior to his "coming out," I tried to imagine what would happen if someone of his rank were to step forward. I thought it would be an event of great interest to the media, and would be given much wider coverage than was actually afforded Corso - more on the par of what was afforded the Raelian cloning claim. The fact that it was not suggests either really bad PR by the publisher or some reticence by Corso and/or Birnes to expose themselves to too much public scrutiny. It certainly would not be due to disinterest by the media - as the Raelians have recently proven. ==JJS==
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 22 Re: Alien 'Proof' Rejected As Hype - Seguin From: Trevor Seguin <dragko@shaw.ca> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 11:22:13 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 16:09:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Alien 'Proof' Rejected As Hype - Seguin >From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 19:34:54 -0400 >Subject: Re: Alien 'Proof' Rejected As Hype Don, and listers, <snip> >I realize there are stars and planets that can be seen by SOHO >depending on when they come into its field-of-view. But I'd be >more inclined to believe some up close grain of dust or perhaps >[though I don't see the likelihood of this] ice flakes. I have a question. Does SOHO's imaging not require a focal point? The reason I ask is if the items we see are Dust/Ice close to the lens would they not be so severely out of focus you would not even recognize them? I mean the object that _is_ the focal point is so far away, objects that are close not appear blurred. I have looked at the seven released images and those objects look more like objects that are in focus, but blown up by 200%-500%. Although this proves nothing, except I am not a Satellite Imaging Technician, I am interested. >But there are non-aligned anomalies as >well. It's also my understanding that there are multi-frame >shots of the same object. Yes in my understanding there are some objects that move across the frame at varying speeds and directions. Some even appearing to move towards SOHO. I have looked at the images as I have said and watched the interview. I am not convinced this is 'Alien Proof', but it is definitely interesting! IMHO >While I'm at it - someone provided the online logs of the NASA >logs pertaining to strange or anomalous objects spotted by the >SOHO camera. I promptly lost that URL. If anyone knows what it >was would they please email it to me. The comments were quite >interesting. I am also interested in this!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 22 Triangles Suspended Above His Head? From: Michael Harman <rocketman5047@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 11:36:27 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 16:13:26 -0500 Subject: Triangles Suspended Above His Head? Just wanted to throw this out there to see if anyone has experienced anything like it. My son when he was 8 or 9 years old, came running into our bedroom crying. He said that he had triangles suspended over his head and that they followed him whereever he went and that he couldn't get rid of them. By the time he got to our room they wern't visible even though he was very agitated and still looking up at what looked like nothing. He also had several perfect, light colored circles rimmed with white dots going around each one. Any comments? Has anyone else seen this? He is 22 now so this was a few years ago. Mike Harman UFO-PI http://ufopi.freehomepage.com/indexmain.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 22 Re: X-PPAC Media Forward 01-21-03 - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 20:28:22 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 16:20:57 -0500 Subject: Re: X-PPAC Media Forward 01-21-03 - Hall >From: Stephen Bassett <ExPPAC@aol.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 20:02:09 -0500 >Subject: X-PPAC Media Forward 01-21-03 >X-PPAC >Extraterrestrial Phenomena Political Action Committee >X-PPAC is forwarding this internet release to its media list >because it represents a significant development in the politics >of disclosure. >Each year new journalists and researchers are bringing their >talent and expertise to bear on the single most important issue >and the single most important news story in the world today, >i.e., Leslie Kean, Richard Dolan, Terry Hansen, and now Dr. >Michael Salla. It is time for the rest of their colleagues to >join in. >Stephen Bassett >Ex. Director >Internet Release - January 20, 2003 <snip> >http://www.exopolitics.org/ >To contact Dr Salla, email: DrSalla@exopolitics.org Stephen, Thanks for providing the link. It helped me to do some detective work that indicates, despite your implication to the contrary, that this is not an independent scholarly study in any meaningful sense. The familiar phrases highlighted above all come from Webre, Greer, and the like. Sure enough, when I went to his web site and looked around I found his essay repeatedly citing such wonderful scholarly sources as (gasp!) Steven Greer, William Milton Cooper, and Zecharia Sitchin. He simply rehashes all the paranoid fantasies and extremist viewpoints. Ho-hum. - Dick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 22 Re: X-PPAC Media Forward 01-21-03 - Tonnies From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 13:33:14 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 16:48:21 -0500 Subject: Re: X-PPAC Media Forward 01-21-03 - Tonnies >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 20:28:22 +0000 >Subject: Re: X-PPAC Media Forward 01-21-03 <snip> >>http://www.exopolitics.org/ >>To contact Dr Salla, email: DrSalla@exopolitics.org >Stephen, >Thanks for providing the link. It helped me to do some detective >work that indicates, despite your implication to the contrary, >that this is not an independent scholarly study in any >meaningful sense. The familiar phrases highlighted above all >come from Webre, Greer, and the like. Sure enough, when I went >to his web site and looked around I found his essay repeatedly >citing such wonderful scholarly sources as (gasp!) Steven Greer, >William Milton Cooper, and Zecharia Sitchin. He simply rehashes >all the paranoid fantasies and extremist viewpoints. >Ho-hum. Greer, Cooper and Sitchin are certainly extreme (when they're not simply wrong, which is more often than not). But I don't see Dolan taking New Age bait that easily. Anyone who's read his book and monitors his site knows that, regardless of allegations of being "too paranoid", he's an extremely capable thinker. I can imagine him sytematically dismantling Greer's fantasy- platform much more easily than I can see him endorsing it. The same goes for Cooper and Sitchin. (Of the three, Sitchin gets my vote for Most Likely to Be at Least Partially Right, although his bearing on the contemporary ufology is extremely tenuous.) ===== Mac Tonnies macbot@yahoo.com Transcelestial Ontology, Theoretical Ufology and Postmillennial Studies http://www.mactonnies.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 22 Filer' Files #4 -- 2003 From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 15:49:20 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 16:51:19 -0500 Subject: Filer' Files #4 -- 2003 FILER'S FILES #4 -- 2003 Skywatch Investigations. George A. Filer, Director Mutual UFO Network Eastern January 21, 2003, Majorstar@aol.com Webmaster: Chuck Warren -- My new website is at: www.Georgefiler.com Sponsored the Mall Without Walls: www.filer.unfranchise.com UFO SIGHTINGS HOLD STEADY The purpose of these files is to report the UFO eyewitness and photo/video evidence that occurs on a daily basis around the world and in space. This report includes a: Maine boomerang UFO, a New York cylinder with powerful lights, South Carolina daylight disc, Mississippi flying disc, Thirteen flying triangles in Ohio, Illinois cross shaped hovering craft, Texas gold glow, South Dakota bluish balls, Colorado teardrop UFO, California disc, Washington UFO, Canadian flying triangle, Mexican blue fireball, and UK sightings. Jeff Challender NASA flights MAINE BOOMERANG SHAPED SHIP HOVERS OLD TOWN -- A college student and his girl friend were driving on January 10, 2003, when they noticed three lights brighter than a car's headlights in the sky at 6:40 PM. He pointed the lights out to her. They wondered what they were because there are no towers that could explain the lights. They pulled the car over in front of a large Catholic Church with the craft hovering overhead." The witness says, "It was a boomerang shaped ship with three lights with one at each end, and one on the tip of the 'V.' The ship took off very slowly at first and gradually speeded up. We tried following it but it eventually flew so fast that it was gone in a short while. The ship traveled in the direction of its 'V' shaped point. It had wings like the wings of a plane but flew at only 200 yards above the ground and never got any higher. We could both make out its shape and two other lights that blinked which were match smaller and were red and blue. The reason we are sure it was a UFO or a governmental craft is because it made absolutely no sound at all. While it hovered above us and as it took off it was completely quiet. I have always been extremely skeptical about UFOs, but after tonight I cannot overlook the evidence that there are UFOs out there. This was real. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC NEW YORK CYLINDER WITH POWERFUL LIGHTS ST. JAMES -- A teenager was on his driveway skateboarding at 9 PM, on January 9, 2003, when a circular object came from behind the trees and flew nearby. Its light was very bright, but only if you were looking directly at it. If you were looking straight you wouldn't notice it. It was moving extremely fast and seemed to stop on a dime, and made right angle turns without slowing down or changing altitude. After observing this for about a minute, other smaller lights departed from the original one. There were three objects now each with about twenty lights. There were sixty lights on all three of them that were blinking very fast and were powerful to look at. They did not make any noise as they flew across the night sky. The witness reports I'm pretty sure that there was five minutes of unexplained time loss. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC SOUTH CAROLINA DAYLIGHT DISC AND PULSING LIGHTS PAGELAND -- The observer was on Highway 9 going east about ten miles from Pageland in a very rural area at 3:30 PM, on January 9, 2003. The witness states, "At first I thought it was a low flying jet fighter but the object was a bright glowing disc shape with some detail moving at high rate of speed to the south on a mostly sunny day." This is my first observation of a UFO and I never believed they existed before today. AIKEN -- The witness was driving on US I-20 on January 10, 2003, when they saw a slow pulsing light cross above the interstate moving in a NNW direction at 7:30 PM near the first Aiken exit. The shape of the object seemed long due to the pulsing lights along the side of the craft. We turned off onto SC highway 19 and stopped just a short ways down the road. The witness reports, "I observed this object for around 30 minutes in a stationary position." Then the object moved toward the north very slowly. One small aircraft was around as if the occupants were watching the object's lights, but did not fly too close. At least it seemed that way due to the path the smaller aircraft was flying. Thanks to Peter Davenport MISSISSIPPI DISK VAN CLEAVES -- The witness reports observing a disk shaped object at 9 PM, on January 9, 2003, with lights across the front. It also had one small red blinking light on it. The object did not move and that's what made us think it could possibly be a UFO. It was flat across the front and shaped like a saucer. The object was not very high in the sky, and was just above the tree line. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC OHIO THIRTEEN FLYING TRIANGLES HOVER AND BACK UP. WASHINGTON COURTHOUSE -- The witness says, "My husband woke me up at 12:25 AM, on January 7, 2003, while driving home from a trip to ask me what these lights were in the sky?" I said a tower. He said, "No they are moving but very slowly." There were three objects. As we passed two, the third was hovering above a house, and I still thought it was a tower. So he pulled the car to the side of Highway I71 north and we sat there. We then witnessed a craft turn and fly away slowly and then circle back around. Then we saw more craft come from a distance. They started out looking like a bright light but when they got closer, we could clearly see two big white lights that were close together. We watched as they just circled around very slowly in about a two mile radius. We could see they had smaller lights as they turned and hovered with a red non- flashing light in the back. They could turn 180 degrees while hovering in posi! tion. One flew towards our car as it circled at about 900 feet in altitude. I rolled down my window, and it sounded like a very quiet slow moving jet, but it was too low and too slow for a jet. The main body of the craft was also slightly illuminated. My husband has 20/15 vision and we sat for fifteen minutes watching. We drove on and saw another six aircraft in the next ten miles. All were slowly flying south towards the area where we were watching the others. One of the six flew right above our car. This time, I held the wheel while my husband was watching out the window. I got a totally clear view of the bottom of one, that was only about 800 feet above us. It was triangular with delta like wings. Looking straight up from underneath we saw three lights across the bottom with a red one in the middle. The main part of the body was lit up. I called my local Meteorologist and he called the national weather service in Wilmington. They said that Wright Patterson Air Force Base has many f! lights around there and Airborne Express also has a terminal nearby. These were not jets and if it was military, would there really be thirteen craft flying around the same area? Does the military make a quiet, slow moving, hovering aircraft? Very weird, yet very exciting! WILLIAMSBURG -- The next day, on January 8, 2003, sixty miles south of Wright Patterson the fifteen year old observers were coming back to his friend's house from swimming at the local indoor swimming pool. We walked into his breezeway and heard the sound of a low flying airplane, so we went looked up at 7 PM. I saw what appeared to be an airplane except it had a light sitting on something about ten feet from the fuselage. It had three lights near the front and the back that were red white and blue. I kept looking and the plane was flying toward me when it stopped, then hovered and flew a little higher and BACKED UP! It did this numerous times so we got my friend's Mom and she saw it too. It was flying higher when it dropped suddenly, hovered and then flew away. I thought I was crazy but the next day I was at school and told a friend I saw something weird. That's all I said, and he gave me the same description saying he and his! Dad saw it too! Editor's Note: The military has not announced owning a FLYING TRIANGLE of this type, but there are numerous sightings of low flying large triangles. Technically these aircraft are breaking flight safety rules. Yet no one has ever reported seeing one of these craft parked on the ground any where. CINCINNATI -- Around 2:30 AM on the morning, a 14-year old boy heard a strange aircraft fly over his house on January 8, 2003, Very scared, the boy looked out his window, and suddenly, he heard a voice in his head. This voice sounded strange and spoke in a language that he didn't understand. Extremely startled, the boy went back to bed, and again heard the voice. No more is known about the experience. PORTSMOUTH -- While out on my porch 10:30 PM, on January 9, 2003, I happened to look up in to the sky in the northern direction. There was a long, almost hot-dog shaped blue object in the sky at about maybe 50 degrees. It was the same color blue as the base of a flame with one part of it brighter than the rest. It stayed lit in the sky for about 1 1/2 seconds then disappeared. About five seconds later I saw the same 'thing; but now in the northeastern part of the sky at about the same degree. Whatever it was produced no sound nor did it blink. It was just a steady "glowing blue hotdog" shape of light. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC ILLINOIS CROSS SHAPED HOVERING OBJECT PALOS HEIGHTS -- The witness was driving west on a main street through town and noticed a large white light just above the tree line to the southwest at 12:45 AM. The witness reports, "I continued driving and noticed the light did not appear to move in any direction, but it was very large in comparison to the planets." It was the size of a penny. I drove several blocks and noticed it was moving in a slow, north/northeast direction. It was now about one block to my southwest direction, and about 100-150 feet above the houses in the area. I was at a stop light turning south towards the object. Another motorist was also starring at the object. At this close range I could see the definite shape of a 'X or cross' with one set of "wings" larger then the other. One set glowed red underneath while the smaller set was white. At the tip of each "wing" was a white light. The other motorist was watching with me for about 45 sec! onds and then drove quickly away. I continued to watch the object which was almost stopped about half a block directly in front of my car. I stopped to watch it hover for roughly a minute before it flew east at a medium speed. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC . SOUTH DAKOTA BLUE BALLS OF LIGHT FT. THOMPSON -- The witness reports, "I saw four balls of bluish-green light hovering over the big bend dam located on the Missouri River on January 3, 2003." The balls proceeded to move east towards Highway 50, and as they passed over head at 2:29 AM you could see light moving in a circle. The object was a disk shape object, and made no sound as it shot straight up into the air. The others followed and they disappeared. We talked to local law enforcement and they had many similar reports dating back to early 70's. NUFORC TEXAS GOLD GLOW TEARDROP CIBOLO -- At precisely 4:45 AM on January 9, 2003, the witness reports observing a gold glowing object in the northeast, but nestled in the light of the moon. The object was vividly clear and stationary for 2-3 minutes, then moved back away further north in the clouds and the light vanished. It then began to glow brighter, and seemed to come back towards the witness out of a cloud and then stayed in the original position for two minutes again. The object repeated this process three times. I also observed a plane flying under the object and away from it. The plane blinking lights made the huge clear glow of the UFO unmistakable. The object was ten times the size of the plane blinking in the distant horizon. SPICEWOOD -- I was inside looking out at the evening sky on January 8, 2003, when I noticed a bright "cylinder" shaped object moving slowly from east to west coming in the direction of my house at 6:15 PM. As I watched it come closer towards on our house on Lake Travis. I noticed that it seemed to have many lights in a "clump," with other lights below it. I also noticed that it was moving in a starting and stopping pattern, rather than smooth. It did stay on the same course. I turned my head to knock on the window, so that my husband could come out and see when I looked back up, it was gone. NUFORC ARIZONA SILVER BELL-SHAPED METALLIC OBJECT PHOENIX -- A silver bell-shaped metallic object which emitted an orange light was observed traveling northbound at a rate of 180 mph at an elevation of 2000 feet for a period of ten minutes by three individuals on December 31, 2002, at 4:40 PM. The object noiselessly covered a distance of 30 miles in a period of about ten minutes, passing over the cities of Chandler, South Phoenix and Scottsdale, AZ. It was moving parallel at nearly directly above the Interstate 10 Freeway. The object was observed from the parking lot of the 3 observers place of employment. The object had an irregular flight path, constantly, if only slightly, changing altitude &direction, but moving in a northerly direction. It was observed from a distance of roughly two miles. Due to the clear daylight conditions and close proximity of its observers, as well as the object's Omni directional movements, its shape was clearly discernible and was not that of any aircraft known to the observers. There was no tail, wings, fuselage, or propellers visible. As it maneuvered perpendicular to the earth, its underside was seen to be black. When horizontal, it appeared the have a highly reflective metal surface. There was an intermittent orange glow about it. When first sighted about four miles away it had a diffused look, reminiscent of a gigantic piece of Saran Wrap. Suddenly, it assumed a much smaller solid and more circular appearance as it quickly moved closer to the initial observer. At its closest point, its somewhat bell shaped outline became apparent. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC CALIFORNIA DISK AND FLASHING LIGHTS BUENA PARK -- The witness observed a silvery colored disk hovering in an upwards position December 31, 2002, at 1:30 PM. The disk leveled out and moved quickly southeast. There was no sound. SAN FRANCISCO -- The witness saw three slightly glowing UFOs on January 6, 2003. They changed formation slightly and were moving to the east at 5 PM. The lights were changing in their brightness. He stated, "I could see many stars so I was pretty sure there was no fog or clouds and the space between each light was equal, but after a few seconds the space changed so that I believe they are not aircraft." MCKINLEYVILLE -- An object was seen to the west over the Pacific Ocean on January 7, 2003, that was flashing many different colored lights 3:30 AM. The lights were red, yellow, and green in color. The movement of the object was most peculiar because it moved quickly and not in a straight line. It would move left, then stop, then up, then stop, then right, stop, further right, sudden movement to the left, down, left. It just didn't look like the movement of an aircraft. Myself and a friend watched for about half an hour before it disappeared. There was no noise Both observers are college educated, but neither of us are experts in aircraft identification. MORO BAY -- My girlfriend and I were driving home from a movie in San Luis Obispo on January 7, 2003. At Cuesta College we saw an obscure yellow light in the distance at 9:20 PM. As we got closer and closer, we could make out that the light was moving. When we could see the Moro Bay smoke stacks in front of us, the aircraft flew overhead, across the highway. It was an orb-like shape with many flashing lights on it. It wasn't that far overhead, and it wasn't moving as quickly as a normal craft. We pulled off to the side of the road and saw the craft fly over the mountain on the other side of the highway. BURBANK -- The witnesses saw six orangish objects fly west of Burbank towards the ocean on January 11, 2003, at high speeds. The witness stated, "Periodically they would slow down almost to a stop, and then resume flying very fast again. Then they all stopped, and slowly their bright light resembling stars almost faded out after five minutes." In speaking with other friends who were not with us that evening, they had also witnessed the sighting. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC WASHINGTON UFO HOVERS FOR NINE HOURS SNOHOMISH -- On January 9, 2003, the witness pointed out to his wife a strange light in the sky at about 9:00 PM, to the north that was very high and distant. It was twinkling like a helicopter or an airplane at night. The witness reports, "It would move side to side, then up and down quite rapidly, and at other times it was quite stationary." We decided it must be a helicopter seen from a great distance, circling as if searching. At no time did it vary from the same general spot in the sky, it simply would change direction, noticeably. Therefore, it was NOT a star. I went out again after sleeping until about 3:00 AM, and the object was still there with the same behavior. When I got up at 6:00 AM, it was still doing the same thing! It had not changed from the same general position in the sky, which you would expect if it was a star, due to the Earth's revolving. Sometimes it was stationery and at other times, rapidly movi! ng side to side, and occasionally slightly up and down for nine hours. No helicopter can stay airborne for so long! NUFORC CANADA FLYING TRIANGLE CALGARY, ALBERTA -- On January 10, 2003, two brothers report sighting a flying triangle at 9:30 PM. Reports of these flying triangles are becoming very numerous and may indicate a base in Northern Canada. MEXICO BLUE UFO SIGHTING MEXICO CITY -- Jose Luis Rueda Quintana reports that on January 11, 2003, at 7:25 PM a group of five persons spotted an object 40 to 50 meters in diameter flying at high speeds. The craft was blue in color, and made no sound. Five witnesses saw the passage of a blue colored object that crossed the sky at a great speed and disappeared behind clouds heading west. Although the sky was splashed with clouds the moon illuminated the witnesses. The object flew at an angle of 40 degrees level towards moon and flew into a cloud that did not allow them to see where the object went. Its speed, was five times greater than an aircraft flying in the urban zone, some felt it was as large as the distant moon, but in fact was smaller. The witnesses felt the object was flying about 600 meters altitude towards the mountainous zone, near Tlalnepantla. EARTHQUAKE -- Mexico was just hit by a massive earthquake on January 21, 2003, at about 8:00 PM local time in the Colima area not far from Mexico City. The earthquake is 7.8 mag. Reports from Mexico City are starting to come in. that power has been cut off in parts of the Mexican capital. We hope the casualties are minimal. UNITED KINGDOM RED M SHAPED CRAFT STOKE-ON-TRENT -- The witness looked up on a clear December 28, 2002, night at 7:10 PM, when he saw red M shaped objects flying in a V formation. The objects slightly varied in position during flight. They were flying at least 20 x faster than I have ever seen anything fly before. There was no sound whatsoever. They were flying east over Anchor Road at Longton Stoke on Trent. BANGOR, NORTH WALES -- The witness was driving along the A55 Expressway towards Bangor on January 7, 2003, when he noticed two very bright white/blue lights. One was stationary and the other was heading towards it at 6:45 AM. The second light started to circle around the first one in a clockwise direction and then stopped. They were both stationary with a small gap between them. Then one light started to move upward and just disappeared, while the other moved slowly away to my left gathering speed and disappeared. These were not helicopters or jets, these just very bright white lights changing to a shade of blue. When I arrived at work, two people at work also mentioned seeing blue flashing lights and they agreed these were not aircraft. DR. ELLEN CRYSTALL, author of the book "Silent Invasion," died December16, 2002, after more than a two year battle with pancreatic cancer. Her book relates her excellent story of researching large flying triangle shaped aircraft over Pine Bush, New York. Ellen will be missed by the UFO community. She was born in 1950 - 2002 and will be greatly missed.. JEFF CHALLENDER TRACKS NASA FLIGHTS SACRAMENTO Bee Newspaper article by Will Evans writes" Thursday, when NASA launches another shuttle into orbit, the folks at Mission Control won't be the only ones following its every move. Jeff Challender will be watching every second of shuttle footage available on cable television from his Sacramento home. And he'll be recording it, adding it to his collection of hundreds of missions, for proof. Proof of what, he doesn't know. But Challender, 49, believes National Aeronautics and Space Administration cameras are catching glances of UFOs. Alien spacecraft, space animals, secret government experiments or none of the above -- Challender has no idea what they are. But despite debunkers who say he's staring at ice particles or other space junk, Challender doesn't think the white spots occasionally moving across his screen can be explained by normal means. These flying objects are, at least for him, "Unidentified." "I don't go for the flying saucer! s and little green men routine," he says. "All I know is that there is something appearing on NASA video that doesn't belong there." Though there are many UFO trackers in Sacramento, he's one of only a handful in the world that scope NASA flights for clues. And for his patience and dedication to detail, watching video that he says produces about 10 seconds of "interesting" material out of several hundred hours, he has become respected as a self- taught "expert" in the wider UFO community. "He has probably more expertise than anyone else, certainly outside of government, in looking at the film," says George Filer, a retired Air Force major who runs a UFO Web site from New Jersey. Challender, disabled by a severe spinal injury, lies on a mattress surrounded by an arsenal of recording equipment for his work: nine VCRs, stacks of VHS tapes, two DVD burners and a DVD player. With his massive, hand-built, quadruple-hard-drive computer in front, he seems suspended in some kind of space vessel himself. But the only thing that hints of extraterrestrial interests is a little silver alien, per! ched on top of his computer. Challender grabs the NASA footage from Channel 72, run by the Sacramento Educational Cable Consortium. From this mission he'll probably examine 30 to 40 hours of tape, sometimes straight from breakfast to when his family calls him to dinner. The longtime aviation junkie started taping missions in 1997, just for fun, to edit each one into a documentary. But in 1999, he saw something that grabbed his attention: an illuminated dot, pulsating as it whizzed across the screen. Then, later, he saw many white dots moving around, changing direction and speed. What were they? Challender has been tracking similar "anomalies" ever since. "I want answers," says the former railroad laborer. "I believe something's going on and the facts are being kept from us." NASA isn't so sure. "I'm not aware of any visuals of [extraterrestrial) activity," says Fred Brown, executive producer of NASA Television. Challender points to incidents where the camera seems to zoom in on one of the dots and then cuts off the live footage -- signs, he says, of a cover-up. Nonsense, Brown says. "If those things were out there and we were trying to hide them, we wouldn't put them on NASA Television." Challender is probably seeing bits of liquid or ice, close to the camera, blown around by jets of gas from the shuttle, says Seth Shostak, an astronomer at the SETI Institute, a nonprofit organization running what used to be NASA's "Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence." "You have to be careful," he says. "They're very impressive if you're naive." But Jack Kasher, a retired University of Nebraska, Omaha, physicist, says he's viewed Challender's findings, concluding that they aren't ice particles and challenging anyon! e who says so to prove it. Still, Shostak says, why would SETI spend millions searching for alien radio signals if there were Martians buzzing around every NASA mission? Shostak believes that there [/TEXT9_6_16] is alien life. If 10 percent of stars had planets and 1 percent of those supported life, there could be millions of worlds with life just in our galaxy, he calculates. NASA would have no incentive to hide any evidence. "That would be the greatest thing for NASA. Their budget would go up instead of going down," he says. Bernard Haisch, ex-director of the California Institute for Physics and Astrophysics, has led several NASA studies, and doesn't think the civilian agency is involved in any coverup -- but he thinks there probably is one. In fact, there are quite a few government people and aviation experts -- even famed astronauts Gordon Cooper and Edgar Mitchell -- who believe the government knows more than it's telling. "I know there's something out there because I've chased 'em," Filer says. Flying in the Air Force in 1962, he was ordered to follow a supernaturally large object detected by radar and came close enough to see its lights before it disappeared. Aviators apparently have so many such experiences that one ex- NASA scientist founded the National Aviation Reporting Center on Anomalous Phenomena, which compiles UFO reports from pilots. Since the government no longer investigates UFO reports, the task falls on these private organizations and on amateurs. The Mutual UFO Network, for example, is dedicated to investigating all sightings. Cynthia Siegel, director of the Sacramento chapter, is training half a dozen locals to become "field investigators," to document sightings with interviews, photographs and video -- even soil samples. "There are so many more accounts than people realize," Siegel says. The National UFO Reporting Center recorded two Sacramento-area reports in December: a "cigar-shaped craft" and a "triangular craft with three large white lights." Challender, searching for more using a different technique, founded Project P.R.O.V.E. It stands for "People Recording Orbiting Vehicles from Earth," which says it all. Challender holds his ordinary camcorder to the sky when the International Space Station passes over Sacramento and waits for something unusual. So far ... nothing.! "But I don't give up hope," he says. An even more difficult project may be establishing credibility for UFO buffs. To help change the kooky image, Linda Willitts of Folsom works on Project Disclosure, which gathers testimony from top government and military figures who "believe." On the other hand, she participates in what some consider the definition of kooky, traveling around the country to summon ETs through meditation. "We ask them to show up and they always do," she says. That's not Challender's style. He shirks the "true believer" label and diligently fills out incident reports for everything he sees, striving to be scientific. Yet, he knows he's unlikely to solve the puzzle from his home in Sacramento. "The only way I will find out is with full government disclosure. Or if something lands in my ! front yard and asks me if I want a ride," he says with a chuckle. "But I'm not holding out for that." Thanks to the Sacramento Bee, 1/14/03, Will Evans wevans@sacbee.com. WHAT YOU TO KNOW WHEN HIRING A REAL ESTATE AGENT Learn how you can obtain the best real estate agent for your needs. To get a free copy of this report e-mail me at Majorstar@aol.com SHOP AT THE MALL WITHOUT WALLS WITH 100 STORES There is a store for your every special need, and you qualify as a preferred customer by reading these files. Register as a Preferred Customer and pick the store of your choice for special discounts. Bernadette F. writes: I have used up a large bottle of OPC-3 the plant derived Bioflavonoids. I had three children and an auto accident that gave me ugly large varicose veins on my legs. Using your Isotonix OPC-3 has smoothed my legs so they look like they did when I was sixteen. The product also did wonders for my husbands allergies, it is the best sixty dollars we ever spent. Thanks for your help. Health and Nutrition Store carries the wonderful Isotonix OPC-3 products. You can use visa or Master charge at: OPC-3 . MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative reports subscribe to the MUFON JOURNAL. A MUFON membership includes the Journal and costs only $35.00 per year. To join MUFON or to report a UFO go to http://www.mufon.com/. To ask questions contact MUFONHQ@aol.com or HQ@mufon.com. Mention that I recommended you for membership. Filer's Files is copyrighted 2003 by George A. Filer, all rights reserved. Readers may post the complete files on their Web Sites if they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue that the item appeared. These reports and comments are not necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON viewpoint. Send your letters to Majorstar@aol.com. Sending mail automatically grants permission for us to publish and use your name. Please state if you wish to keep your name, address, or story confidential. CAUTION, MOST OF THESE ARE INITIAL REPORTS AND REQUIRE FURTHER INVESTIGATION. Regards, George A. Filer www.Georgefiler.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 22 Re: Triangles Suspended Above His Head? - Connors From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 14:44:04 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 17:12:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Triangles Suspended Above His Head? - Connors >From: Michael Harman <rocketman5047@yahoo.com> >To: UFO Updates <UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 11:36:27 -0800 (PST) >Subject: Triangles Suspended Above His Head? >Just wanted to throw this out there to see if anyone has >experienced anything like it. Hi Mike, No, but my youngest daughter came into my bedroom in the wee hours of the night many years ago, claiming her stomach hurt and that she had eaten a 5 pound marshmellow. Of course I didn't believe a word of it. But the funny thing was that I couldn't find her pillow the next morning. <G> In all seriousness, your son may have been having a seizure of some sort, which can happen during the growth years. There is too little information to leap to a possible alien abduction scenario, etc., if that's what is behind your post. Wendy Connors
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 22 Re: Alien 'Proof' Rejected As Hype - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 18:16:36 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 17:39:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Alien 'Proof' Rejected As Hype - Ledger >From: Trevor Seguin <dragko@shaw.ca> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 11:22:13 -0800 >Subject: Re: Alien 'Proof' Rejected As Hype >>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 19:34:54 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Alien 'Proof' Rejected As Hype >Don, and Listers, <snip> >>I realize there are stars and planets that can be seen by SOHO >>depending on when they come into its field-of-view. But I'd be >>more inclined to believe some up close grain of dust or perhaps >>[though I don't see the likelihood of this] ice flakes. >I have a question. Does SOHO's imaging not require a focal point? The reason I ask is if the items we see are Dust/Ice close to the lens would they not be so severely out of focus you would not even recognize them? I mean the object that _is_ the focal point is so far away, objects that are close not appear blurred. I have looked at the seven released images and those objects look more like objects that are in focus, but blown up by 200%-500%. Although this proves nothing, except I am not a Satellite Imaging Technician, I am interested. >>But there are non-aligned anomalies as well. It's also my >>understanding that there are multi-frame shots of the same >>object. >Yes in my understanding there are some objects that move across >the frame at varying speeds and directions. Some even appearing >to move towards SOHO. I have looked at the images as I have said >and watched the interview. I am not convinced this is 'Alien >Proof', but it is definitely interesting! IMHO >>While I'm at it - someone provided the online logs of the NASA >>logs pertaining to strange or anomalous objects spotted by the >>SOHO camera. I promptly lost that URL. If anyone knows what it >>was would they please email it to me. The comments were quite >>interesting. >I am also interested in this! Hi Trevor, You bring up a good point. Something I should have noted myself. I imagine the focal point is thousands of miles from the camera, which also has a mask used to blank out the surface of the Sun. Thanks for reminding me of this. Does anyone know whether SOHO can zoom in or out? Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 23 Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer - Goldstein From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 00:23:02 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:45:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer - Goldstein >From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net> >Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 07:22:12 -0700 >To: UFO Updates <UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: Bizarre Story Of The Pole Deer >OK. I've seen the picture. Here's the solution to this mystery. >Details located in top secret NORAD flight data. >Dear Gen. Crotchwiggle, >It has been reported by sources at the Polar Research Station >that a Mr. S. Claus was conducting a preflight test prior to a >December 24th mission. >Said deer found wedged in the fork of a tree and one found on >top of a telephone pole belong to Mr. Claus. They were neophytes >being trained under the guidance of one Dasher and Blitzen, >seasoned professional flying reindeer. Both Dasher and Blitzen >are facing court marshal for dereliction of duty at an >undisclosed location north of the research station. It is >assumed Mr. S. Claus will be the officer in charge. Dasher and >Blitzen are being represented by a Mr. Rudolph. >Capt. Hoodwink >Investigation Services >NORAD Chuckle Dept. >So there you have it. A UFO case solved in the grandest >tradition of Philip the Klass. Wendy, Why did a well plaaced confidential source tell me that in order to protect the good nature of children we must now prevent the North Pole Star from printing their government fabricated and planted diversion tabloid story that Dasher and Blitzen had a major drinking addiction? It will be printed tomorrow and they will accuse Santa of being too lenient with his reindeer, leading to the tragic accident. To protest, assemble in front of the igloo flying the flag of the North Pole Star at 6;00 AM. A free walrus and whale meat breakfast will be served. At 7:30 we will march to Santa's estate of ice and form a support group surrounding Santa to shield him from the press until after he testifies before the grand jury. At 6pm Mrs. Claus will be hosting a BBQ. All adult North Pole residents and only North Pole resudents are invited. After dinner we will have the yearly party and show Santa's video of of sensational sleigh stunts on the 2002 Christmas eve tour. Once again the soundtrack will be performed live by our home grown Beatles, the SleighRockers, performing their chart topping song, Won't Get Hoodwinked Again! Wendy, please meet me at the breakfast and I will give you a friend of the resident pass. Don't forget to dress extra warm. We may not have enough blubber burner heaters for the expected crowd. Of course all drinks are complimentary from Santa as thanks to all the neighbors for pitching in to help the elves once again meet the demanding deadline. We will all get blitzed with Santa to celebrate him having given the grand jury The Truth. Meanwhile I'm going back on the web to further investigate whether AFOSI put out that story of Dasher and Blitzen being drunk and blitzed on that test flight. Josh Goldstein CEO, Mogen David Chanukah Dredel and Gifts Corporation
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 23 Re: Triangles Suspended Above His Head? - Velez From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 20:30:44 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:56:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Triangles Suspended Above His Head? - Velez >From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net> >To: UFO Updates <UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 14:44:04 -0700 >Subject: Re: Triangles Suspended Above His Head? >>From: Michael Harman <rocketman5047@yahoo.com> >>To: UFO Updates <UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 11:36:27 -0800 (PST) >>Subject: Triangles Suspended Above His Head? >>Just wanted to throw this out there to see if anyone has >>experienced anything like it. >Hi Mike, >No, but my youngest daughter came into my bedroom in the wee >hours of the night many years ago, claiming her stomach hurt and >that she had eaten a 5 pound marshmellow. Of course I didn't >believe a word of it. But the funny thing was that I couldn't >find her pillow the next morning. <G> Hi Michael, Wendy, All, Wendy responded: >In all seriousness, your son may have been having a seizure of >some sort, which can happen during the growth years. There is >too little information to leap to a possible alien abduction >scenario, etc., if that's what is behind your post. Speaking strictly as a dad, grandpa, and someone who has communicated with hundreds of 'abductees' I wholeheartedly agree with Wendy. I too have never received any reports of floating triangles. Spherical lights - floating globes of light or star-like objects - yes. Triangles, no. Couple of things: (If) your son's report was 'abduction' related it would be one among many such incidents he would have told you about. They would be fairly regular and spread out over his whole, albeit short, life experience. I have a tendency to dismiss reports of isolated, one-off, experiences as being related to what is mostly an ongoing-phenomenon for abduction experiencers/ victims. It wouldn't be 'only' your son who would be having the experiences. There would be a history of unexplained phenomena among all - or most of - the members of the immediate family. These oddball events and experiences would include sightings/contacts with UFOs and interactions with 'non-human' entities. There would be attendant physical signs as well; scoop marks, fully healed scars that appear literally overnight, bruises and a range of other odd/unexplained physical marks. Some of which appear in very 'artificial' looking geometric patterns. Don't worry. It doesn't sound like 'aliens'. Take the boy in for a visit to the family physician and report the incident to the doctor. If there are any repeat performances, let me know. Regards, John Velez, Webmaster: Abduction Information Center Sign the International Petition to the United Nations for disclosure of information pertaining to UFOs. http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 23 Re: SOHO Images - Stuart From: Chaz Stuart <Daydisk2@webtv.net> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 23:21:36 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:05:21 -0500 Subject: Re: SOHO Images - Stuart Don, The zooming, or enlarging, in this case, may have been done by the group investigating this. This is just speculation, but perhaps some of the images _were_ seen at angles but were turned towards us (squared up) by those enlarging the images. If the objects were circular and with symmetrical "attachments", they would look the same from any angle. --Chaz
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 23 Re: X-PPAC Media Forward 01-21-03 - Maccabee From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 23:58:46 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:09:05 -0500 Subject: Re: X-PPAC Media Forward 01-21-03 - Maccabee >From: Stephen Bassett <ExPPAC@aol.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 20:02:09 -0500 >Subject: X-PPAC Media Forward 01-21-03 <snip> >Internet Release - January 20, 2003 >Former American University Professor releases Research Study of >Extraterrestrial Conspiracy Theories and the Implications for >Policy Makers and Global Peace >Dr Michael E. Salla a former Assistant Professor in the School >of International Service, American University (1996-2001), has >completed a two year independent study of popular conspiracy >theories of an extraterrestrial presence, and clandestine >government efforts to repress news of such a presence. His study >focuses on four sets of conspiracy theories and the evidentiary >support for each. His research conclusion is that two of the >four have sufficient evidentiary support to merit close scrutiny Too bad he has decreased the credibility of his paper by treating information from questionable and discredited sources (Wm. Cooper, Michael Wolf, Boylan, Brown) as if it were factual. But, coming to this cold, he had little experience in discarding the chaff while retaining the 'good stuff'. The idea of attempting to develop some "exopolitics" is OK and perhaps needed. As he says, there is some such politics already in going on. Whether it is consistent with his suggested conspiracy theories is questionable.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 23 UFO Sightings OZ Files 22.01.03 From: Diane Harrison <auforn@hypermax.net.au> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:20:30 +1000 Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:15:04 -0500 Subject: UFO Sightings OZ Files 22.01.03 This is the First OZ Files for 2003 we hope the List enjoys them. UFO Sighting OZ Files 22.01.03 Auckland New Zealand 1950 Girl aged 10 years at the time. Witness Noelene K. Sayer http://www.hypermax.net.au/~auforn/New_Zealand-1950-1969.html My girlfriend and I went every Saturday morning to the local bakery to but our mother's bread. this particular morning we had a fight so she didn't come. on the way home i just looked up into the sky above me and saw three long gold objects flying very fast. I noticed a neighbour mowing his lawn and I mentioned it to him. By the time we looked up they had gone. The object was very hard to describe because the objects had the sun shining on them which gave them a glowing affect. They were cigar shaped and appeared to be gold in colour. It was such a beautiful clear morning and I was admiring the lovely blue sky when I came to notice the three objects. My mothers encounter with a UFO. In Auckland New Zealand 1969 Approximately, my mother who has passed away now, was taking the family dog for a walk at around 8.30 p.m. The house was situated at the top of a slight incline. As she was walking down the road the dog suddenly became very nervous. Mother had a struggle trying to keep hold of the lead. Suddenly the dog slipped the leash and sped off back home before my mother could do anything. She then noticed a strange light coming up the middle of the road towards her. There were telegraph poles in those days on each side of the street. The light kept coming towards her and mother ducked as it went overhead as she thought it was going to touch her (she felt it was that low to the ground). When it had flown past her she watched it speed up and disappear towards Whenuapai airport. When she told the family about it she said there was not a sound coming from the strange light. It couldn't have been a helicopter or even a light plane as it was too low, there was no sound, and it would have had to have been small enough to fly between the telegraph poles. I have a feeling she reported the incident to the air traffic control but unfortunately I never went into it with her. Now of course it's to locate to discuss it with her. After that incident she believed what I had told her when I was approximately 10 or 12 years of age, regarding the 3 cigar- shaped U.F.O's. I had seen that beautiful, clear morning. I remember at the time she told me my liver must have been playing up because I had spots in front of my eyes. Regards Diane Harrison National Director of The Australian UFO Research Network Australian Skywatch Director UFO Sighting National Park Road Canungra. Qld Phyl and Jim Ahearn's sighting at (With a great drawing of the craft at URL) http://www.hypermax.net.au/~auforn/National_Park_Road-Canu.html Date 1982 Time: DUSK The sun had just set behind MT Wetheren but its bright glow was still well above the skyline. Place of sighting From the verandah for our house, situated on the Eastern range of Canungra Valley. The house is about 300 meters up the slope from the road. It overlooks Canungra creek and National Park Road, with a clear view of approximately three or four kilometers up the valley towards O'Reilly's http://www.trulyaustralia.com/nature/qOReillysGH.htm. Our house faces Mount Wetheren which forms part of the great Western Range of Canungra valley. There is only a limited view looking towards Canungra township because of trees. The sighting- Jim was on the verandah when he noticed bright lights coming down the valley from the direction of O'Reilly's. He watched the lights slowly approaching, thinking it was a plane, until he realized there was no sound. He called to me 'Phyl come quick and have a look at this.' The urgency in his voice made me hurry onto the verandah. From our elevated position on the slop of the hill, I saw this huge object slowly cruising towards us then past us at eye level. It was very close, about 200 meters away.. It was eerie, because there was no sound, just this huge thing gliding past. I had never seen anything like it. The lower section was well defined but the top was impossible to see, because of the glare, it was blinding. I thought at the time, that the glow of the setting sun was reflecting on it. The part that I could see was like the brim of hat with a row of glowing windows on top of it. The light in the window was whiter and more brilliant than any fluorescent light I have ever seen. I cast my eyes along each window to see if there was any figures visible, but there was only glare. I thought there was something unusual about the window, they didn't look right. It cruised past at the equivalent pace of a car going 15 to 20 kph. It's length was longer than a semi-trailer. It was moving in the direction of Canungra Army Camp. It seemed to be following the line of the Canungra Creek and the power lines and the road, which are all in close proximity of each other. When it was about to go from our view behind trees, I ran to ring my son who lived on the same property, but his wife answered the phone. I told her to look out the window there's a UFO going past. She said 'oh! don't put that rubbish in our heads'. She would have had a clear view of the 'thing' if only she had looked out the window. I was going to ring Canungra Police but I thought "Who would believe me'. WE didn't have a film for our camera, therefore we have no photo of the object, yet we had plenty of time to take a photo. Fro months I thought about what we had seen, so in the end I decided to draw what we had witnessed. I could draw the 'brim' and the glare section quite easy. When it came to draw the window section I was stumped, I couldn't work out what was so unusual about them, and why I couldn't draw them. It wasn't until I saw an article on UFO's in the Sunday mail dated 11 August 1996 Did I realize what was unusual about the windows. They were not in a straight line like we are used to seeing on a train of a plane. I had never seen circular windows before I often wonder if anyone else saw the object that evening, but like me didn't report it. END Regards Diane Harrison National Director of The Australian UFO Research Network Australian Skywatch Director UFO Sighting 1983 Ashburton Vic (NL) Sighting_Time: 11.00 p.m Sighting_Duration: 5 min Mr. Phila a labourer observation: At the time I was in the Army reserves, I was dropped off this night and began walking home (1/2) mile. I still don't know why but I looked up to the sky I saw what looked like 2 car headlights in the sky. A the time I didn't think much of it, but then I saw them moving and I thought Helicopter. But I saw that it had no shape, but the area around it was very dark, darker than the sky. This object seemed to be following me. By this time I was starting to get frightened so I ran home. I never told anyone about this for fear of ridicule, I was later shocked to read in the paper 2or 3 days later that a similar thing was chased by police on the same night. Description: It was silent but was darker than the night sky. No other witnesses, size, it looked fairly large, I would say about the size of small plane at 200 feet it came from the East and went North and was the size of the moon. Source: UFO Sighting UFOR NSW online report form Doug Moffett AUFORN NSW UFO sighting Canberra ACT Sighting_Date: Unsure March 2000 (NL) Sighting_Time: 5.30 - 6.30 PM Sighting_Duration: 1-minute approx. Mr. L, occupation Bartender, observation: I was stuck in traffic on my way to a rugby match at Canberra Stadium. It was still light out, but approaching sunset. I looked out the window into the sky and saw a obviously metallic, circular object making it way slowly across the sky at high altitude. The sun was glinting off it. I thought it must have been a balloon of some sort as it's pace was slow and constant. I was still watching it about a minute later when it suddenly zoomed off at an incredible speed towards the horizon. Literally a second later it was gone. It struck me as strange as balloons don't usually increase speed like a cannonball. Description: Metallic, circular. It was too high to see any other details. Location: Aranda/Bruce ACT it was about the size of a commercial jet when they pass over at very high altitudes and at that altitude it had to be at least as large as a truck, almost certainly bigger. The object was about cruising altitude of commercial jets, it came from the west travelling East. Source: UFO Sighting UFOR NSW online report form Doug Moffett AUFORN NSW UFO sighting Rotterdam, NSW (NL) Date: 9 January 2003 Time: 11:15 am Sighting_Duration: 3 minutes Mr. Prem Observation: I saw two white UFO the third one was not white of colour but shinning as a aeroplane and not moving in the first place. The white object moved fast and came together. Then again moved tree times and all disappeared. Source: UFO Sighting UFOR NSW online report form Doug Moffett AUFORN NSW UFO Sighting CAMPBELLTOWN South Australia (NL) CALL IN CODE 02809 11th January 2003 Sighting: on 12.1.03 Time: 4.15 - 5.15am Duration: Approx one hour Object: Very bright white light larger than the brightest star he's seen Movement: None, stationery Trajectory: Static, low on horizon east of southern cross Conditions: Clear, before dawn Witnesses: 1 Reportee: Tim, 35, Security Guard Tim was driving home from night shift when he noticed a particularly large, bright white star. Having done night shift for a long time he had not seen this star before, and has not seen it since. He felt that if it was a star then it should have been there the next night. The star was larger and brighter than Venus, in fact he stated several time she had never seen a star so bright and he had done night shift for a long time. He watched it until dawn. Interesting note: He reported the object at 4.15 in the morning. It was still dark and Adelaide Airport has a curfew from 11.00pm until 6.00am, being in a residential area. Around 40 minutes after his call to the hotline, a jet was seen (5.00am) in the area of the "star", followed about 30 minutes later (5.30am) by another jet. Reportee says they were not passenger aircraft but more like military jets. Debbie Payne AUFORN Adelaide UFO sighting PORT PIRIE, South Australia (NL) 21st January 2003 PORT PIRIE, South Australia Sighting: approx 3 years ago Time:late night Duration: 5 minutes until lost sight of Object: 2 x Star like bright orange lights, about the size of a large star Movement: Slow across the sky Trajectory:First North to south, then did an acute right angled turn heading east Reportee thought that a plane would bank, but not do such a sharp turn Conditions: Clear. Witnesses: Only reportee Reportee: Alec, age 52 (49 at time of sighting) Alec was outside in his backyard late one evening when he noticed two bright orange star like objects moving towards him from the north. He watched them pass over Port Pirie silently and slowly, moving south and away from the town. He thought they may have been aircraft, but had never seen aircraft with one orange light. What changed his mind was; they both suddenly turned right on an acute angle heading east. He said he had seen many planes bank left or right but that this was a very sharp turn. Very unlike an aircraft. He has thought about this incident often and finally decided to report it. Debbie Payne AUFORN Adelaide UFO Sighting WULLAGI, Darwin NT Julie (CE-4) 21st January 2003 This woman did not have a UFO to report, but rather wanted someone to talk to about strange incidents with her daughter (4 years old) and the "frogmen". Reportee: Julie T for friend called Axxx aged 40. Axxxx is unable to relay her story as she has a speech impediment. Julie called mainly to report an unusual occurrence with her friend Axxx's daughter. Rxxx is 4 years old and declared to her mother and friend last week that the frog men came and visited her again. When the adults asked her to explain the child said, the frogmen (3) came through her window in a mist and saw her again. They have big eyes and frog skin. They poke her arms, legs and belly. She tries to wake her mother who sleeps in the bed with her, but she does not wake up. The dog on the floor makes no sound or movement. When questioned about this turn of events the mother said she heard noises, the bushes outside the window were "rustling" and the dog was unusually quiet, but that she was paralyzed and had no other recollection of events that night. The women examined the area around the window and found a scorch mark on the lawn (brown mark) and foliage on the trees had been burnt. Recently Axxx (mother) had a TB X-ray. The doctor found a small white square, embedded in the tissue between her armpit and breast. Although he thought this unusual and Axxx had no memory of trauma to this area, the doctor assured her it was nothing to worry about. Debbie Payne AUFORN Adelaide Thank you to everyone that contributed to these reports -- Kind regards Diane Harrison National Director The Australian UFO Research Network and UFO Hotline. Australian Skywatch Director Co Editor The Australasian UFOlogist Magazine Tel number 1800 77 22 88 a Free Call Australian UFO Research Network - http://www.hypermax.net.au/~auforn E-mail auforn@hypermax.net.au A non profit organisation PO Box 738 Beaudessert 4285 QLD Australia Tel 07 55 44 6888 All NEW UFO Bookshop at http://www.contactpublishing.com _____________________________ Dear Webmasters Could you please update your web link to our webpage THE AUSTRALIAN UFO RESEARCH NETWORK New Link is http://www.hypermax.net.au/~auforn Thank you ____________________________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 23 Re: Alien 'Proof' Rejected As Hype - Edwards From: Tim Edwards <tedwards@wiredog.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 02:12:17 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:17:43 -0500 Subject: Re: Alien 'Proof' Rejected As Hype - Edwards >From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 18:16:36 -0400 >Subject: Re: Alien 'Proof' Rejected As Hype <snip> >You bring up a good point. Something I should have noted myself. >I imagine the focal point is thousands of miles from the camera, >which also has a mask used to blank out the surface of the Sun. >Thanks for reminding me of this. Does anyone know whether SOHO >can zoom in or out? >Don Ledger One can easily find out whatever they want to know regarding the LASCO and EIT cameras here: http://lasco-www.nrl.navy.mil/lasco.html#info : Tim -- *So much to learn and so little time!* DreamScape http://tedwards.topcities.com/dreamscape.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 23 Re: Sheer Lunacy - Jordt From: David Jordt <JORDT@aol.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 03:07:50 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:21:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Sheer Lunacy - Jordt >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >To: <- UFO UpDates Subscribers -> >Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 08:07:17 -0500 >Subject: UFO UpDate: Sheer Lunacy >Source: Scientific American >http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=0007467E-C454- >1E1C-8B3B809EC588EEDF&catID=2 >February 2003 issue >Sheer Lunacy >Which is nuttier: denying we ever went to the moon or trying to >convince the true nonbelievers? >By Steve Mirsky <snip> >Nevertheless, last fall NASA considered spending $15,000 on >what amounted to a public-relations campaign to convince the >unimpressed that Americans had in fact gone to the moon. Hello List, Does anybody else here enjoy the irony of NASA having fits trying to prove it's lunar landings? "So how does it feel, fellas?" Reminds me of the scientist in 'Contact' - who disbelieved in God because He couldn't be proven - suddenly finding herself unable to prove her extraterrestrial experience to colleagues. One wonders if it will eventually dawn on NASA that the interests of research are not met by listing items to be "believed" or "disbelieved" based upon some committee's brilliant reasoning. I recall Arthur Clarke's list of hypothetical technological attainments - starting with the submarine and getting gradationally tougher, through superluminal speeds and hyper- space travel and ending up at communication with the dead - and finding that scientists in general did not agree about where to draw the line between "possible" and "impossible". I submit the following reminder: "Truth is stranger than fiction. Fiction is obliged to stick with what is possible. Truth is not." - Mark Twain D. Jordt
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 23 Re: Alien 'Proof' Rejected As Hype - Bowden From: Tom Bowden <tomrbowden@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 00:09:18 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:24:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Alien 'Proof' Rejected As Hype - Bowden >From: Trevor Seguin <dragko@shaw.ca> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 11:22:13 -0800 >Subject: Re: Alien 'Proof' Rejected As Hype >I have a question. Does SOHO's imaging not require a focal >point? The reason I ask is if the items we see are Dust/Ice >close to the lens would they not be so severely out of focus you >would not even recognize them? I mean the object that _is_ the >focal point is so far away, objects that are close not appear >blurred. I have looked at the seven released images and those >objects look more like objects that are in focus, but blown up >by 200%-500%. Although this proves nothing, except I am not a >Satellite Imaging Technician, I am interested. <snip> Trevor, I think you are talking about the depth of field of the camera lens. Focal length is directly proportional to the magnification power of a lens. A long focal length gives magnification at a distance. A short focal length gives a wide angle view, but makes objects appear smaller than they normally would at a given distance. Depth of field is the property that allows both distant objects and nearby object to be in focus without adjusting the focus of a lens. A camera with a small depth of field requires more focus adjustment to bring either nearby objects or distant objects into focus; a maximal depth of field allows distant and nearby objects to be in focus simultaneously. The SOHO is photographing the sun, therefore it would have to have a relatively small aperture, which is the opening which admits light through the camera lens and onto the digital sensors. Too large an aperature would admit too much light, which in this case would probably overload the digital receptors. This information can be verified with NASA, or whoever is familiar with SOHO's cameras. I am sure the SOHO cameras were specially designed for this mission. As a general rule, a smaller aperature gives a greater depth of field than a larger aperature. Also, a shorter focal length, wide-angle lens gives a greater depth of field than a longer focal length or telephoto lens. I hope this helps clarify the question of whether close-ups of dust motes, ice crystals, etc., could be in focus as well as distant objects. It depends on the equipment and the actual distances. To photograph objects at distances of miles and up, any common camera lens would be focused at infinity; however a special astronomical telescope lens could be designed for a more specific focal settings for objects at various distances. Any lens which was designed to photograph distant objects with magnification would probably be incapable of focusing on a small ice crystal or piece of dust less than a few feet from the lens. But a wide-angle or normal (1:1) lens combined with a very small aperture could have both small nearby objects and distant bodies in focus at the same time. The only way to settle this is to get data on the capabilities of the SOHO cameras. Tom Bowden
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 23 Lehigh Valley PA Has Reported UFOs Since 40's From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 09:30:29 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 10:26:38 -0500 Subject: Lehigh Valley PA Has Reported UFOs Since 40's Source: The Morning Call, Allentown, Pennsylvania http://www.mcall.com:80/templates/misc/printstory.jsp?slug=3Dall%2Db4%5F5ask= fran0122jan22§ion=3D%2Fnews%2Flocal Stig *** Ask Frank: Valley residents have reported UFOs Newspaper articles from 1940s, '50s and '60s describe sightings. By Frank Whelan Of The Morning Call January 22, 2003 ** Q: It was on the very hot night in August 1968 when I was working in Bethlehem across the Lehigh River from Bethlehem Steel that I saw an unusual shiny, spinning flying object in the sky hovering over the steel plant. I have no idea what it was, but I have often wondered. My question is are there any documented UFO sightings from that time about people seeing objects in the sky in this area? Whatever it was, it was there and I saw it. Donald W. Parks Allentown A: After reading your letter I went immediately to The Morning Call's flying saucer file. You knew we had to have one, right? The file begins with an Evening Chronicle story from July 8, 1947. The first known UFO sighting recorded locally was credited to Bethlehem resident Edna Lynn of 36 W. Laurel St., who said she saw an unidentified flying object on July 6, 1947. Over the years the articles came thick and fast, including one with a photograph purported as a high-flying UFO taken July 9, 1952, by Berks County farmer John Mittl over his family's 300- acre farm near Kutztown. It ran in the Evening Chronicle on July 30, 1952. To answer your question, on Aug. 4, 1968, there was an article in The Morning Call about the sighting of a UFO over the Lehigh Valley the day before. An unidentified man in West Catasauqua reported seeing "a red light in the sky." Through his binoculars he saw "a bright, round object. It was red and had no tail or any flames following it." The weather station at Allentown-Bethlehem-Easton Airport said they had not seen anything but reported a call from a young man asking for information about temperature and visibility. "Sounded as though this might tie in with the UFO report," a meteorologist said. The article noted there had been many previous sightings that spring and summer. On May 27, 1968, a former Navy corpsman reported a brightly lit object hovered over his car as he drove on Third Avenue in Hellertown. "On last Monday , four Bethlehem policemen responding to a call from Richard Sedler of 508 Hess St., who reported a UFO sighting, confirmed that they too had spotted the object," The Morning Call said. "Officers John Ladics and Vincent Carrodo reported that the round object had greenish-white and revolving lights with a red glow coming from its tail." They saw it about 1:21 a.m., it disappeared for a half-hour and "then returned briefly for an encore." Ask Frank appears on Wednesdays. Have a question about Lehigh Valley history? E-mail questions to frank.whelan@mcall.com or write to Frank Whelan, The Morning Call, 101 N. Sixth St. Allentown 18105. ** Copyright =A9 2003, The Morning Call
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 23 Re: Triangles Suspended Above His Head? - Heath From: Gord Heath <gwheath@shaw.ca> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 08:21:14 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 11:50:07 -0500 Subject: Re: Triangles Suspended Above His Head? - Heath >From: Michael Harman <rocketman5047@yahoo.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 11:36:27 -0800 (PST) >Subject: Triangles Suspended Above His Head? >Just wanted to throw this out there to see if anyone has >experienced anything like it. >My son when he was 8 or 9 years old, came running into our >bedroom crying. He said that he had triangles suspended over his >head and that they followed him whereever he went and that he >couldn't get rid of them. >By the time he got to our room they wern't visible even though >he was very agitated and still looking up at what looked like >He also had several perfect, light colored circles rimmed with >white dots going around each one. >Any comments? Has anyone else seen this? Your comments indicate this happened at night. I had a period when I was young in which I would see swarms of small lights in various colours. I saw these both with my eyes closed and open in a darkened or dimly lit room. They were quite pretty and never really bothered me. It was only as an adult that I read that this type of visual phenomenon is sometimes associated with entry into what is called "shamanic visionary" states of consciousness. Other visual hallucinations include viewing of grid-like lines. Those of you familliar with Australian aboriginal art may note that one common feature is coloured spots overlaid on top of depictions of animals, etc. (Who knows, maybe this accounts for the glowing fireflies that astronaut John Glenn saw while he was orbitting earth in Friendship 7). I am not certain if there is any connection, but these experiences began when I was about two or three years old, about the same time I had a couple dozen recurring dreams (actually nightmares) in which my two brothers and I were at the bedroom window looking up at the moon. My brothers were laughing at the "man in the moon" who then came down. I was then alone and paralyzed, in great fear as I tried to call for my father, but I couldn't because of the paralysis. The dreams finally ended one night in which the dream continued in an extended version, the man in the moon (who I never actually saw in the dream), took me back to the moon, or another planet, where I was hidden under the surface as something scary flew over, looking for me. I have more recently recalled that I remember once being in the kitchen with my mother and older brother. At this time, I was just learning to talk, and I still could speak only a few words. My brother was trying to tell my mother about something that had happened the previous night. He told my mother that the man in the moon had come and had taken Gordie away. He spoke with urgency. My mother tried to assure him that this did not happen. I felt strange because I could not remember anything about this, but I wondered if it were true. I have never had any conscious memories of abductions or aliens surface, at least any memories of such from my current life. I have always wondered about the recurring nightmares, and it was partially this curiousity that got me interested in exploring UFO related issues in my life. One possible abduction which did occur in our family, involved my eldest brother. He was only a few weeks old when he dissappeared from his crib. My parents searched the whole suite in a panic. They eventually found him where they had left him. My parents often told us this story, but we never connected this with UFOs or aliens. It was just a mystery. This happened in 1950. My mother also told us many times about an experience she had when she was a young girl living on a farm in northern Saskatchewan. She saw a group of what she described as "little green men" across the slough (pond) from her. She said they were dressed in silvery suits and had a kind of cap or helmet on. I recently found out that her description matches those seen in an incident from Nipawin, Saskatchewan which occured in the summer of 1933, when men were spotted by a landed craft in the bush/muskeg - it looked like they were maybe "making repairs". (Note: the description "little green men" was commonly used in the 1950s to 1970s to mean "alien beings") Back to your original question... It may be that these visions are related to an altered state of consciousness. I think that such states and visions can sometimes be triggered by sleep deprivation. Anyone who has ever driven while extremely tired knows that the mind starts to hallucinate - first just shadows and later, more substantial visions. It is somewhat like the intrusion of dream vision into normal consciousness. Sleep deprivation is also sometimes used as a way to trigger visionary states of consciousness. Many believe that most "bedroom abductions" are related to an altered state of consciousness in which body is asleep (paralysed), while the conscious mind is struggling with the subconscious, which can be visualized as another external being. (at least this is one explanation). I have had several experiences with this phenomenon, and I can affirm that it always seems to occur while falling asleep or waking up. But I am not sure if the "external entity" is really just another part of my own self. I don't believe that this phenomenon accounts for all abductions, and I do think it is possible that there are a variety of causes - some physical by flesh and blood aliens in nuts and bolts spacecraft (actually if my memory serves me well, they are beyond such primitive technology - beyond rivets and welds - doors that magically open from solid walls - levitation, teleportation, reincarnation and such), some perhaps being spiritual entities, and who knows, maybe there is beings coming through from other parallel dimensions or universes. Sorry for the digressions. I agree with John Velez, that if there were actual abductions occuring, your son would most likely have experienced many other memories and physical effects that pointed in this direction.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 23 Is Anyone Out There? From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 13:22:50 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 13:22:50 -0500 Subject: Is Anyone Out There? http://www.guardian.co.uk/spacedocumentary/story/0,2763,879633,00.html Comment Is anyone out there? The search for extraterrestrial life grips the human imagination because it tells us about ourselves Paul Davies Wednesday January 22, 2003 The Guardian For the past 40 years a gung-ho group of astronomers has been sweeping the skies with radio telescopes in the hope of stumbling across a message from an alien civilisation. Known by its acronym of Seti - Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence - this enterprise gained popular attention with the Hollywood movie Contact, starring Jodie Foster. It makes good science fiction, but is it good science? The eminent biologist George Simpson once described Seti as "a gamble of the most adverse odds in scientific history". Even optimists concede it is a needle-in-a-haystack quest. So far, there isn't a shred of convincing evidence for any life beyond Earth, let alone intelligent life. With a hundred billion stars in our galaxy alone, and a billion possible radio channels to choose from, pointing the radio telescope in the right direction and tuning into ET's chosen station might take a very long time - even supposing there is anybody out there transmitting. So why do it? Why waste time and resources on such a speculative venture? I agree that Seti is almost certainly a hopeless enterprise, but it is also a glorious one that is definitely worth doing. This seems like a contradiction, but it isn't. For a start, it costs the taxpayer nothing. The main projects are managed by California's Seti Institute, which is entirely privately funded. Second, it has a strong educational appeal. Aliens are a favourite topic with schoolchildren: witness the runaway success of seti@home - a way to use your screensaver to scan telescope data for alien signals. More significantly, Seti forces us to confront some of the deepest scientific and philosophical questions of our time. Frank Drake, the American astronomer who started the project in 1960, is fond of saying that the search for life beyond Earth is really a search for ourselves, who we are and where we fit into the great cosmic scheme of things. Speculations about whether or not we are alone in the universe go back at least to ancient Greece. Today, most people - including many scientists - instinctively believe there must be life out there somewhere. Examining the assumptions that underpin this belief is very revealing. For example, the origin of life on Earth remains mysterious. It could well have been the result of a stupendous chemical fluke. Computing the raw odds quickly shows that even the simplest known cell is so unlikely to form by accident it wouldn't happen twice in the entire observable universe. Or in a trillion similar universes. One near-miracle is possible, or we wouldn't be here to comment on it. But two near-miracles? Perhaps life's origin wasn't a freak event after all, but the automatic outcome of inherently bio-friendly laws of nature. However, the laws we know certainly don't have "life" written into them. In fact, the very notion of a law of nature is that it applies across the board to everything. Life is a weird and exceedingly special state of matter, and it's hard to see how a basic law of nature could know anything about it in advance. Yet that hasn't stopped the distinguished physicist Freeman Dyson from claiming that somehow the universe "knew we were coming". Dyson echoes a widespread sentiment. Belief that there is an inherent cosmic drive from matter to life permeates much scientific thinking. But it is rarely articulated explicitly; after all, if life pops up wherever there are earthlike conditions, then there seems to be something deeply contrived in the way the universe is put together. Seti obliges us to unpack that extraordinary claim and face the fact that if there is a law that steers matter to life then we haven't found it yet, and it will be a law like no other we have discovered in nature so far. Similar issues swirl around the question of intelligence. A popular conception of evolution is that, over time, life progresses from simple to complex, marching inexorably onwards and upwards, continually striving for advancement. Biologists flatly deny this. The essence of Darwinism is that nature is blind and evolution is directionless. There is no known principle that compels life to evolve toward intelligence once it gets started. But belief in alien civilisations tacitly assumes a thrust towards intelligence, a hidden directionality in evolution, which is sharply at odds with the whole spirit of Darwinism. If Seti draws a blank in, say, a hundred years, the effort will not have been wasted. Although one can't prove a negative, decades of unsuccessful searching would lead many people to conclude that we are, after all, probably alone in the vastness of the cosmos. That conclusion would give added urgency to our responsible stewardship of planet Earth. If humans are the only organisms in the universe capable of reflecting on the significance of their own existence, then our unique planet would be seen as a truly cosmic resource. --- Paul Davies is professor of natural philosophy at the Australian Centre for Astrobiology at Macquarie University in Sydney. This article is based on his Michael Faraday Prize lecture The Origin of Life to be given at The Royal Society on January 27. pdavies@els.mq.edu.au [UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 23 What Was Mystery Light In Night Sky? From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 13:30:18 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 13:30:18 -0500 Subject: What Was Mystery Light In Night Sky? http://www.thisisgloucestershire.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=74112&command=newP age What Was Mystery Light In Night Sky? 10:30 - 22 January 2003 A strange bright light in the sky has left Forest of Dean residents puzzled by what it could have been. The report comes in the same week unexplained lights were seen at other UK locations, including Loch Ness and Worcester. The stationary light was spotted in the sky above Harrow Hill, near Cinderford, in the early hours of Monday morning. Steven Taylor, 39, was one of the residents to see the light when he got up at 12.30 am to get a drink. He said the light was so bright he thought he had forgotten to turn the outside light off, and it made the dog start barking "It was like a bright search light, but it wasn't a helicopter as there was no sound whatsoever," he said. "What it was I don't know but I didn't wait around to find out. It was weird!" His neighbour 64-year-old Elizabeth Fletcher was woken by the light. She said: "It was a flashing light and was quite strong but I couldn't hear anything. "I thought it was someone trying to get in or it might have been the police helicopter." Robin Cole, from Gloucester who researches the paranormal, said the light was most likely to be one of the bright planets which can be seen currently. "It was most likely to be Jupiter at that time in the morning, but without speaking to those who saw it it's difficult to know for sure," he said. "The night skies have been particularly clear lately and the atmosphere can create optical illusions distorting light." Police spokeswoman Kate Nelmes told The Citizen there were no reports to the police about the lights and the police helicopter had not been in use in the area at the time. A spokeswoman for Gloucestershire Airport said: "We had no late movements on Sunday night and closed at 7.30pm." RAF Innsworth also said they received no complaints about low- flying aircraft and presumed the lights were not an aeroplane. RAF Fairford, which is due to house US Airforce B-2 Stealth Bombers, also denied they had any operations in the area at that time. A spokesman said: "There has been no activity from this site in the past few weeks." Other sightings in the UK this week included red lights seen hovering over the city centre in Worcester, and a mysterious "blob" of light seen above the waters of Loch Ness. [UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 23 Credential Inflation From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 12:38:35 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 17:17:24 -0500 Subject: Credential Inflation Good Morning, All - Apropos of nothing at all, I happened to find, in this morning's newspaper, a nice little article about a woman at the University of Iowa who had not only lost her job because she had "inflated" her resume, but who was charged with a crime in connection with that deception. Yes, she was also charged with fraud because she inflated her claimed mileage to the tune of something over $50,000.00. She must have been one driving demon to rack up those kinds of charges. But, to me, the interesting charge was know as prohibitions which seems to stem from her false claims of academic credentials. According to the complaint, she had "submitted a curriculum vitae and resume indicating she had a bachelor's degree from the University of Northern Iowa, two master's degrees from the University of California at Berkley, and dual doctorate degrees from the University of Iowa, all of which were false." Two comments, one relevant to Ufology and one not. First, she was employed at the University of Iowa and these clowns couldn't even check to see if the claims were legitimate at the University of Iowa, let alone the other institutions (though it shouldn't have been all that hard to check with the University of Northern Iowa.) Second, and relevant to us, is here is a woman who inflated her academic resume (as we see repeatedly in Ufology) and there were severe consequences. I think being charged with a felony is rather severe. In Ufology, we'd claim that the government, for some ill-defined and obviously nefarious reason has chosen to "wipe her record clean" to disguise the importance of her work. We would swarm to her defense with all sorts of reasons to reject the allegations. Somehow this would become proof that she was telling us the truth. I guess, this is a lesson that I believe we should learn, but which we never do. Instead we say, "Well, he (or she) never lied to me about this." The woman at the University of Iowa never lied to me about her academic credentials, but that doesn't mean that she didn't lie. KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 23 Humanoid Contact Data Update From: Roy Hale <roy.hale@ntlworld.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 17:41:20 -0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 17:20:53 -0500 Subject: Humanoid Contact Data Update Hi All, For those who are interested, I have just placed the 1980 Humanoid Contact Cases on my site. http://www.thelosthaven.co.uk/1980Cont.htm Thanks to Albert S Rosales for his continual dedication to this vast area of research. Best, Roy.. Roy Hale is the Owner of The Lost Haven http://www.thelosthaven.co.uk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 23 Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Houran From: Jim Houran <JHouran@siumed.edu> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 12:05:01 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 17:29:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Houran >From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 12:22:45 -0800 >Subject: Validating The Ramey Memo >>From: Neil Morris <neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 14:30:10 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Validating The Ramey Memo Hi List, I appreciate the comments and welcome criticisms. Let me clarify some of my earlier statements re: methodology. I won't clarify them all, because I refer readers to my original JSE article for counter arguments to most of the proposals made by Rudiak. First, when I likened the problem of the Ramey Memo to the problems associated with deciphering the Dead Sea Scrolls, the analogy concerns the analytical methods used in enhancing the text, not interpreting the text. Naturally, one needs be familiar with the period of history and language in question to decipher and/or reconstruct documents such as the Dead Sea Scrolls (i.e, to recognize the letters on the scrolls). Fortunately, the Ramey memo is not ancient text so theoretically anyone who knows English should be able to recognize/read the letters/sentences/phrases if they are clear/legible. What I feel is needed is state-of-the-art enhancement of the document by analysts who are not primed to interpret ambiguous letters according to their preconceived notions. In our JSE study, subjects were not given any time limit to decipher the text, and this important point was not mentioned by Rudiak. Just because some subjects took less time than others does not mean that we imposed some limit. As suspected by Rudiak and noted by us in the article, the motivation of the subjects (likely influenced by the context of the task) probably played a major role here. Of course, experimentally blind analysts do not necessarily need a 'context' in order to keep them motivated on the task (i.e., not frustrated), they simply need time and money (and I am sure that many already have curiosity for trying to solve problems). I know, I have actually asked several labs about what would keep them motivated. How much time is an answer no one can answer. It depends on several factors, as Rudiak and any experienced researcher knows. As I write this, I see that I already addressed the second methodological point: do analysts need a context or not to see the letters? Yes, they only need to know the English alphabet in order to recognize reliably the letters. That assumes that computer enhancement by independent and unbiased labs can render the text significantly more legible for subsequent reading by unbiased individuals. Rudiak and others may disagree, but in my opinion, only text that can be read under these conditions is reliable. "Blind procedures" are the standard in objective, empirical research where confounding variables of belief and expectation can influence the results. Yes, I maintain that telling people anything about the supposed content of the document invalidates any design that purports to be unbiased/objective in deciding whether the Ramey memo can be deciphered at all or not. I believe my study with Randle shows that clearly. Lastly, attempting to label me as a "skeptic" is misleading if one is familiar with my peer-reviewed writings on the subject of Roswell (and some people have misconceptions about what 'peer- review really is). I am neutral on Roswell. Furthermore, I feel the field now relies too much on testimony re: Roswell-- tetsimony that appears impossible to corroborate effectively. This is why I appreciate the approach of Rudiak and others who look to empirical issues and questions in the case. The Ramey Memo is just such an issue. Rudiak is absolutely correct in asserting that a probability analysis is needed (via computer or by human subjects) should some of the text not be legible, e.g., 'unreadable' letters in otherwise full words. He is also correct in asserting that a context is needed in order to do that effectively. Pattern recognition (specifically for letters and words) in humans is so effective because of our capacity for creativity that stems from our semantic networks. Our study showed that interpretation follows from context. However, and this is more to the point, we really do not know the context of the message. Without that, we are simply dealing with speculation and using one unknown to fill in the blanks of another unknown. Rudiak will argue that the memo obviously relates in some way to Roswell. I would agree to a limited extent. The memo probably has something to do with the events surrounding the Roswell case but in the broadest sense. That is not really helpful. I firmly beieve the text "weather balloons is on the memo" because our empirical studies suggest subjects see this regardless of the context they are given (more evidence that one need not have a context in order to see words if they are truly legible). But, the topic of weather balloons alone does not put in proper perspective what the text states about weather balloons. I'd rather cut through such confounds and see if independent and unbiased labs can manipulate the text to such a degree that they can confirm or deny some of the key phrases (or any phrases for that matter) that Rudiak and others (including my own experimental subjects) perceive in the Ramey Memo. Forget for a minute any text that Rudiak has reconstructed through a form of probability analysis...I mean text that he states anyone can clearly read after enhancement and which is posted on his website. Either independent and unbiased labs can replicate these findings or not. That is not peer-review, but rather a conceptual replication study. And, a desperately needed one at that from my perspective. Best Wishes, Jim Houran James Houran Instructor of Clinical Psychiatry SIU School of Medicine Department of Psychiatry 901 West Jefferson P.O. Box 19642 Springfield, IL 62794 phone: (217) 545-8251 fax: (217) 545-2275
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 23 Re: Alien 'Proof' Rejected As Hype - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 14:22:52 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 17:34:11 -0500 Subject: Re: Alien 'Proof' Rejected As Hype - Ledger >From: Tim Edwards <tedwards@wiredog.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 02:12:17 -0500 >Subject: Re: Alien 'Proof' Rejected As Hype >One can easily find out whatever they want to know regarding >the LASCO and EIT cameras here: >http://lasco-www.nrl.navy.mil/lasco.html#info : > >Tim >-- *So much to learn and so little time!* >DreamScape http://tedwards.topcities.com/dreamscape.htm Hi Tim, Thanks. Great site. Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 23 Trans en Provence A Hoax? From: Andrew Dabrowski <dabrowsa@indiana.edu> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 13:20:56 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 17:36:14 -0500 Subject: Trans en Provence A Hoax? The possibility that the Trans en Provence CE-2 was a hoax was mentioned here recently. Jenny Randles in 'The UFOs that Never Were' also endorses the hoax theory. This is a page with an article by Eric Maillot. http://www.zetetique.ldh.org/tep.html Reactions? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Andrew Dabrowski | Lueckenlos ist die Welt, doch SE 117 5-5470 | zusammengehalten ... von den Verschwundenen. dabrowsa@indiana.edu | Sie sind ueberall. -Enzensberger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 23 Re: Triangles Suspended Above His Head? - Tonnies From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 11:23:35 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 17:38:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Triangles Suspended Above His Head? - Tonnies >From: Gord Heath <gwheath@shaw.ca> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 08:21:14 -0800 >Subject: Re: Triangles Suspended Above His Head? <snip> >It may be that these visions are related to an altered state of >consciousness. I think that such states and visions can >sometimes be triggered by sleep deprivation. <snip> I've experienced a sort of nebulous, hazy effect sometimes when sleep-deprived, or when I awake suddenly in the middle of the night. Things appear to take on a faint glowing sheen. No aliens or structured objects. The fact that I only experience this very rarely makes me think it's probably caused by a combination of factors inside my brain. <snip> >Many believe that most "bedroom abductions" are related to an >altered state of consciousness in which body is asleep >(paralysed), while the conscious mind is struggling with the >subconscious, which can be visualized as another external being. I've only recently experienced sleep paralysis. It was brief but there was no mistaking it: I was wide awake in a fully lit room and couldn't move. Fortunately, I knew what was happening and the paralysis faded before I could start to panic. I wonder how my mind would have rationalized this if I hadn't deduced what was going on: quite possibly with the archetypal "sense of presence." While I think abductions remain an unsolved mystery, I think a _lot_ of them can be explained by various weird hypnopompic and hypnogogic states. Never underestimate the power of your own mind to create bizarre "special effects"! Actually, I have a hunch that proliferation of EM devices (cellphone towers, HAM radio transmitters, etc.) has provided another ingredient to the experiential cocktail that results in perceived "abuctions" and "bedroom visitations." British UFO researcher Albert Budden, working with Michael Persinger's ideas about EM brain stimulation, thinks that some people can develop literal allergies to EM "hot spots" (artifically produced or otherwise). He's found that many abductees happen to live in areas with various EM transmitters, transformers, and other devices. Almost makes you wonder if lining your walls with aluminum foil actually _will_ keep the "aliens" away! ===== >Mac Tonnies macbot@yahoo.com MTVI: http://www.mactonnies.com Transcelestial Ontology, Posthumanism and Theoretical Ufology Mars anomalies, transhumanist resources, book reviews, and more...
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 23 Re: SOHO Images - Seguin From: Trevor Seguin <dragko@shaw.ca> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 11:33:13 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 17:42:48 -0500 Subject: Re: SOHO Images - Seguin >From: Chaz Stuart <Daydisk2@webtv.net> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 23:21:36 -0500 (EST) >Subject: Re: SOHO Images >Don, >The zooming, or enlarging, in this case, may have been done by >the group investigating this. This is just speculation, but >perhaps some of the images _were_ seen at angles but were turned >towards us (squared up) by those enlarging the images. If the >objects were circular and with symmetrical "attachments", they >would look the same from any angle. Your speculation is correct, EuroSETI fully acknowledges that they resized, zoomed in on the objects in question. These images are of the Sun and the Sun fills the field of view. These objects are very small in relation to the sun. The images they start with are of _extreme_ resolution then they look over the image, sorta pixel by pixel, till they discover an object. I believe they may have even rotated some of the images so the 'disc' like shape sat horizontally. I am pretty sure the squaring up did not happen, they where pretty clear in the interview that the images where not 'touched up', just cleaned up to crop out irrelevant parts. The images they have found these objects are public information and released by the SOHO project you can see them yourself here: http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/data/realtime-images.html You could, if you looked for long enough, (thousands) even find the exact images that the investigators used to extract images of the objects. Cheers Trevor
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 23 Excellent AA Website From: Joachim Koch <lists@kochkyborg.de> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 21:34:19 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 17:47:54 -0500 Subject: Excellent AA Website Dear Errol & List members, A reminder that there is a fine website, by experts in the photographic field, dealing with the AA-footage at: http://www.soc.org/opcam/a_autopsy/alienautopsy.html Best wishes Joachim Koch Planet Earth Continent Europe Old Europe Germany ;-)) ---------------------------------------------------------- Serious information about: Crop Circles, Roswell, UFOs, Betty Hill and Network Worlds see: http://www.kochkyborg.de ---------------------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 23 Europe's Best UFO Collections At Risk From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 20:46:18 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 18:28:52 -0500 Subject: Europe's Best UFO Collections At Risk From: clas.svahn@dn.se To: webmaster@ufoinfo.com Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 14:54:03 +0100 Subject: UFO collection Dear fellow ufologists. Since Archives for UFO Research in Sweden is trying to save SOS-OVNI's UFO archive I wonder if you could help me and spread this mail to interested. Please let me know if you need more information regarding this. All the best Clas Svahn UFO-Sweden --- One of Europe's best UFO collections at a risk of being lost. The French UFO organization SOS-OVNI's files and archives are at risk of being sold in pieces by an enforcement officer. Long time ufologist Perry Petrakis is in economical troubles. Mr. Petrakis published the Ph=E9nomena magazine but is now in debt to the printers. In collaboration with the French organization SCEAU (Sauvegarde, Conservation des Etudes et Archives Ufologiques), AFU proposes to buy this major French UFO collection. You can support the deal by sending your contribution to UFO-Sweden's collection or by making contact with SCEAU in France. Archives for UFO Research (AFU) have been asked to help Mr. Petrakis, who wants parts of the files to be transferred to Sweden for cataloguing and preservation. The archives consist of several tons of material. Almost 400 books (in many languages), magazines from all over the world, audios, videos, pictures, case files and more. There are about two hundred book titles which are not previously in the AFU reference library; a large number of magazines; and a collection of pictorial materials. The AFU-SCEAU joint proposal assures that organizational and report archives (in French) will remain in France and be organized by SCEAU within the French National Archives system. We are now negotiating about the price. So far AFU and UFO- Sweden have raised USD 1.600 from 30 different ufologists in Scandinavia, but we need your help to raise more money to be able to save the archive. AFU is today one of the world's largest UFO archives. We are devoted to collect, preserve, catalogue and make available UFO material from many different countries to researchers all over the world. The French collection would be a great addition to our collection which has a cultural slant towards the Anglo- American and Scandinavian world. All contributions are welcome. Please send your contribution through http://www.afu.info/french.htm where you'll find a PayPal-link. If you are not already registered with PayPal this is easy and safe. Instructions are found on the page we link to, but you must have a credit card to be able to use PayPal. If you want to send money or checks please address them to: AFU, P.O. Box 11027, S-600 11 Norrkoping, Sweden. Clas Svahn and Anders Liljegren Archives for UFO Research ---------- John Hayes webmaster@ufoinfo.com UFOINFO:- http://www.ufoinfo.com Official Archives for UFO Roundup, AUFORN Australian UFO Reports and Experiences, UFO + PSI Magazine plus archives of Filer's Files, Oz Files, UFO News UK and UFO Sightings Italia.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 23 Magonia Supplement 45 From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 21:28:17 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 18:30:47 -0500 Subject: Magonia Supplement 45 MAGONIA SUPPLEMENT 45 Edited by John Harney (magonia@harneyj.freeserve.co.uk) 22 January 2003 The Merseyside UFO Bulletin, which later became MUFOB and was eventually renamed Magonia, first appeared in February 1968, so the editors are now celebrating 35 glorious years of publication. We have seen many similar publications start and quickly fade away. There were a number of reasons for these failures and one of the commonest was that publishers were more concerned with the appearance than with the content of their magazines. Thus we had, and still have, professionally designed glossy publications full of professionally copy-edited nonsense. Such magazines inevitably fail unless they are among the very few which are carefully and competently targeted at a mass readership. Magonia has survived by being careful never to incur debts. It has also followed a fairly consistent editorial policy of encouraging serious research and theoretical studies, and never publishing dubious claims without critical comment. As Magonia is not a formal organisation it does not get bogged down in administrative details. We provide a quarterly subscription magazine, an informative and interesting website which is frequently updated, and this Supplement, which is published irregularly but frequently on the website, together with a small number of printed copies. We also hold informal monthly meetings which anyone who is interested is welcome to attend. All this is achieved without spending money we haven't got, holding interminable committee meetings, making pathetic appeals for money, or whingeing about doing lots of hard work which no one appreciates. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ TRINDADE Gentle Reminder No. 1 In our previous issue we revealed that Jerome Clark had announced that new evidence would soon become available which would prove that the Trindade photographs were definitely not a hoax. So far the promised evidence has not been forthcoming. We realise that Jerome Clark is a busy man and that this is perhaps not his most urgent priority at present, so we issue this first and, we hope, last reminder in case it has slipped his mind. ********************************** ANGEL OF LIES Nigel Watson The legendof the Angel of Mons became the focus of media attention in 2001 when it was announced in The Sunday Times (11 March 2001) that Marlon Brando and British film director Tony Kaye had paid =A3350,000 for film footage of the angel.(1) It was claimed that Gloucestershire architect Danny Sullivan had bought the film from a Monmouth junk shop in August 1999 but he only viewed the film in September 2000. It had been found in a trunk of archives belonging to a West Countryman called William Doidge. The story went that William Doidge had been at Mons in August 1914 and knew about (possibly saw?) the apparitions of angels in the sky as the British Army retreated from the overwhelming German advance. After the war he became obsessed by these apparitions which he thought could put him into contact with his sweetheart who went missing during the war. An American war veteran told him in 1952 that angels had appeared before some American troops were drowned during an exercise in 1944 at Woodchester Park in the Cotswolds. Armed with this information Doidge went there with his camera and lay in wait until he captured images of them. Tony Kaye was quoted as saying: "I want to include Doidge's footage of the apparition at the heart of the movie. It will be a spine-tingling moment. This is the closest we have on film to proof of an angel. I've spent much of my life looking at special visual effects, and this is an effect for which I have no explanation." Marlon Brando planned to play the part of the American war veteran. More can be found out about this story on The Doidge's Angel Homepage (2) which is produced by Danny Sullivan. He adds that in Harold Begbie's book On The Side of the Angels there is reference to a soldier referred to as "BD" who saw the Angel of Mons and could have been William (Bill) Doidge. More significantly, Sullivan notes that in 1990 he studied the history and folklore surrounding Woodchester Park and the unfinished Gothic Woodchester Mansion, which resulted in him publishing a book on the subject entitled The House of the Holy Spirit. The whole story gets more complicated if you look at the Oval Soap website's diary of the Cannes 2001 film festival (Oval Soap is now defunct and replaced by the equally bizarre Liquid Soap website). Here Tony Kaye is seen promoting several projects including his Angel of Mons film. His style is, let us say, direct: ". . . Tony Kaye, all round movie-maker-actor-rock- legend-in-the-making head butted me, then rammed his arm in my face to show off a new Hebrew 'Angel' tattoo, which he's got in honor (sic) of his soon to be started, completed, edited or scripted film (probably), The Angel of Mons. He left and strapped some sofas to a truck for a mobile press conference." The Oval Soap diary entry for 17 May 2001 provides some further information about the film: "A guy called Macarthy appeared at Woodchester Mansion in Gloucester, to take some film footage for Marlon Brando, who's tipped to play a part in Tony's movie about the angel sighting at the place in 1940, which we heard about from a hairy guy called Danny Williams (this should be Sullivan - N.W.), an architect in Stroud who looks like an ex-member of ZZ Top and writes about Ley Lines in his spare time. On the Marlon front, he was slated to fly out to avoid Tony's gig, but did say he planned to surprise Tony and expressed an interest in playing the tom-toms with the band, so he might not be flying out at all." (3) An interview with Tony Kaye is preceded by this evaluation of him: "Depending on who you ask, Tony Kaye is either a visionary artist on a fearless crusade against Hollywood's dumbed-down, assembly-line approach to filmmaking, or a reckless, manipulative self-promoter creating a messy public spectacle of his own career immolation. The irrepressible id of every dissatisfied filmmaker in Tinseltown, or the moralistic superego of a business gone mad."(4) Tony has been most successful directing TV commercials. His feature film credits include American History X (1998) and Snowblind (2002). On 11 September 2002 it was reported that he and Marlon Brando had fallen out. Kaye claimed that Brando had tried to attack him and that afterwards he got intimidating messages from him. Kaye said: "I had one strange call on my answering machine. The voice sounded like the Devil. He said, 'I'm in your house. I'm going to kill you.' I was so frightened I didn't go back to my house for a couple of weeks. I went to the police with the tapes. They treated it as a joke." The argument was over the videoing of a documentary by Kaye called Conversations With Brando that includes Brando conducting acting lessons in drag or wearing a priest's outfit. On 23 October 2002 it was announced that Brando does not want the documentary released and is thinking of suing Kaye. So if the Angel film is put into production it is evident it will no longer feature Brando! After all this hype and speculation the whole project hit the deck on Tuesday, 15 October 2002, when BBC Radio 4 broadcast a programme about the Angel of Mons. In a casual conversation with the presenter, Danny Sullivan admitted that the story was a hoax. His motive was to gain income and publicity for Woodchester Park, since his book on the subject The House of the Holy Spirit had not sold well. On reflection this still leaves us with many questions. Was there really a person called William Doidge? Was there any film footage and did he sell it to Tony Kaye, or is Kaye in on it? If he did sell it to Tony Kaye, Sullivan must know that he'll be sued (Kaye has never been slow to enter litigation). Or is this a case of more hype? Back to basics Without the help of Danny Sullivan et al. the original story of the Angel of Mons is convoluted enough. For a start not every 'witness' saw angels; other accounts mention 'horsemen in armour', St George on a white horse, St Joan, St Michael, a strange cloud and bowmen. The Battle of Mons, which consisted of the British Expeditionary Force's first encounter with the German army, took place on 22 August 1914. They were able to slow down the German advance but they had to retreat at the cost of at least 1,600 men. This was reported in sensational fashion in the British press and it shocked the nation. In response Arthur Machen wrote a story 'The Bowmen', which can be found at the Aftermath World War 1 website. (5) Machen's introduction to his 1915 book on the subject The Angel of Mons: The Bowmen and Other Legends of the War, is also reproduced there. (6) The Australian War Memorial website quotes from Harold Begbie's book On The Side of the Angels but is sceptical about any supernatural intervention. However, it's not all gloom for the believers as they concede that: "Whether or not the Germans were terrified by the apparition the fact remains that the enemy forces abruptly checked their advance and recoiled in some disorder towards the right flank allowing the remnant of the British forces to continue their retreat."(7) David Clarke in his new study of the Angel of Mons - 'Rumours of Angels: A Legend of the First World War' (8) attempts to show how and why it evolved into such a potent legend of supernatural aid in the midst of bloody combat. He carefully puts the story into its socio-historical context and shows how 'believers' used Machen's original story of The Bowmen as the framework to circulate 'true' stories of angelic or ghostly intervention on behalf of Britain and its allies. As Clarke puts it: "The artistic talents of Arthur Machen had combined with the power of the media to create a rumour of angels that appealed to a deep well of belief and tradition invoked in times of national crisis." On the Magonia website is Kevin McClure's comprehensive survey of this story 'Visions of Bowmen and Angels'. (9) He supports the idea that angels might well have been 'seen' due to the effects of extreme fatigue causing hallucinatory visions but acknowledges that ". . . responses to the Mons material will continue to vary . . ." Conclusion The legend of the Angel of Mons covers a broad range of visions that were usually reported on a second- or third-hand basis. The motive for circulating such stories and for believing in them was to 'prove' that some Christian or spiritual force was supporting the British against the evil German hordes. In the case of the film footage found by Danny Sullivan, the impression is given that it shows the Angel of Mons (whatever that was). Beyond the headlines it is really supposed to be footage of an angelic vision shot many years later. Here the media have been used to promote a film project for the purpose of financial gain and entertainment rather than the deeper spiritual needs of the original legend. Times change even for angels. Notes 1. The original article is reproduced at: http://www.100megsfree4.com/farshores/pmons.htm. 2. (http://www.doidgesangel.com/) 3. (http://www.borkowski.co.uk/ovalsoap/ 140501_200501.html) 4. (http://www.fadeinmag.com/kaye/ interview1.html) 5. (http://www.aftermathww1.com/bowmen.asp). 6. (http://www.aftermathww1.com/bowmint1.asp). 7. (http://www.awm.gov.au/encyclopedia/angel_ doc.htm). 8. Folklore, 113, 2002, pp. 151-173) An off-print of this research article can be obtained from David Clarke. For details email him at: cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk. David Clarke will be talking more about the Angel of Mons at the Fortean Times Unconvention, 12 to 13 April 2003. For details visit: http://www.unconvention2003.com/html pages/visitors/v-speakers.htm 9. (http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/abwatch/ stars/bowmen.html). For an intelligent look at film and television visit: http://www.talkingpix.co.uk ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ TESTING FOR A HOAX Gareth J. Medway Attitudes to lie detector tests in the UFO literature have always been ambiguous. For instance in Science: Good, Bad and Bogus, Martin Gardner rejects the testimony of one UFO witness on the grounds that he failed a lie detector test. Later on in the same book he mentions that another UFO witness passed a lie detector test, but says that this means nothing, as lie detector tests are notoriously unreliable. Travis Walton took two lie detector tests, one of which he failed, and one of which he passed. The reaction of Phil Klass to this is not too unexpected: the one which he failed was administered by the most skilled lie detector operator in Arizona, considers Klass, but the one he passed was done by a bumbling amateur who should never have been allowed to practise. Those who believe Walton's story take exactly the opposite view of these two men's qualifications. There is an old joke that politicians use statistics "as a drunken man uses a lamp post: for support rather than illumination". Clearly, the same is true of ufologists and lie detector tests. But they may at least reveal something. Normally, the subject of the test will be asked to affirm the truth of some such statement as "I was sitting at home watching television when the crime was committed." In Walton's case, he was asked if he had had a frightening experience, and he immediately showed signs of fear. This, surely, is what you would expect if he had been telling the truth. It is otherwise with his fellow lumberjacks, who took lie detector tests to affirm that they had seen him zapped by a ray of energy from a UFO. Five of them passed, and the results of the sixth test were ambiguous. This last makes it a bit awkward to assess the probabilities involved, so for simplicity I shall ignore the uncertain result. The vital point is, it is rather surprising that five men should all pass the test if all were lying. Suppose that giving a man a lie detector test is actually no different from tossing a coin. If so, then there was only a 1 in 32 chance that all would have passed. Critics of lie detector tests do, however, allow them some efficacy, but say that they are only accurate perhaps four times out of five. This would make any individual test useless, but not collective tests. The chances of five liars all passing would then be less than 1 in 3,000. The one 'uncertain' result lowers this probability a bit (it is difficult to say precisely by how much), but not a great deal. In other words, it is very unlikely that there was a conspiracy of all the men to invent a non-existent abduction, and little weight can be given to this suggestion. All of this illustrates a more general observation: that ufologists do not tend to distinguish suspected hoaxes from proven hoaxes, though I would have thought that the difference could be crucial. Here is another example: the MJ-12 papers would, if genuine, prove that an alien spacecraft crashed at Roswell in 1947. For a variety of reasons I feel certain that a spacecraft did not crash at Roswell in 1947, from which I infer that the MJ-12 papers are a hoax. I do not, however, know of any conclusive evidence from the documents themselves proving them to be a hoax. There are a number of suspicious features: for instance, the dead ufonauts are described as 'Extra-terrestrial Biological Entities', though the Oxford English Dictionary does not note the term 'extraterrestrial' as applied to an alien life-form until 1966. This is not, however, a definite proof, particularly since the term may well have been used in America earlier than in Britain. According to Stanton Friedman, Phil Klass told him that the alleged Cutler-Twining memorandum was in pica, and said that the White House then only used elite type. If, Klass offered, Friedman could produce any contemporary White House documents in pica he would pay him $100 each for them, up to a limit of $1,000. Friedman promptly produced twenty, and duly received $1,000. This is a cautionary tale for those who think questionable features are proof of a hoax. Does anyone have any definite reason for rejecting some or all of the MJ-12 documents? There is one point which might be a useful starting point for investigation: the Cutler-Twining memorandum was 'found' in a box of newly declassified files. If it was a fake, it could only have been inserted by the men who claimed to have discovered it, Bill Moore and Jaime Shandera. Friedman's favourite argument is that the MJ-12 documents were confirmed by his previous researches, which were known to only a handful of people - including Bill Moore and Jaime Shandera. Unfortunately, pursuing this line of thought further is likely to earn the attention of m'learned friends. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ LITERARY CRITICISM Reviews by Peter Rogerson Marina Warner, Fantastic Metamorphoses, Other Worlds: Ways of Telling the Self, Oxford University Press, 2002. =A319.99 In this study of images of blending, shape shifting and splitting in European culture from Ovid to Lewis Carroll, Marina Warner dances close to the topics of interest to Magonia, but never quite engages with them. One gets the feeling that she remains imprisoned in the cage of high culture and cannot escape into the world of the masses' imagination. The world of popular culture clearly inspired much of the high art here discussed, whether it is the hell of Dante or the earthly paradise of Hieronymous Bosch. Warner discusses the impact of the zombie on Coleridge, and its construction in modern form by Zora Houston (though William Seabrook got there before her). The zombie with its evocation of ambulatory coma or vegetative state, or the appalling absence of end-stage Alzheimer's, remains one of the most unsettling of images. The idea of the doppelganger or the mystical second self hints at the splitting of identity. Ideas of splitting emerged in the Gothic but reached fruition in the Victorian period under the joint impact of the new psychology and the new technologies of image capture. One of those captivated by these themes was the fairy story writer and photographer Charles Lutwidge Dodgson (Lewis Carroll). Dodgson's imagination was stirred at the age of nine by a museum display in Warrington Town Hall, one of the those cabinets of curiosities which would have delighted Jan Bondeson, full of weird birds and exotic artefacts. The museum becomes the realm of the imagination. Readers of this book will be surprised to learn that Dodgson in his later years formed a theory of alien encounters, that in addition to our normal consciousness of daylight reason and common sense, there are others 'The Eerie' (in which , while conscious of actual surroundings [the percipient] is also conscious of the presence of fairies), and a"form of trance in which, while unconscious of actual surroundings, and apparently, asleep he (i.e. his immaterial essence) migrates to other scenes in the actual world, or in Fairyland, and is conscious of the presence of Fairies". For fairies read "the other" or whatever token of the uncanny you please. (If that surprises readers they will be astounded to learn that Dodgson who died in 1898 was among the collectors who was delighted with the purchase of a copy of one of the Cottingley fairy photographs, taken in 1917. Was this through the mediumship of Mrs Leonard one wonders, or a judicious journey down the Daresbury time tunnel, or is that a good entry for the howler of the year competition?) +++++++++++++ Michael W Cuneo, American Exorcism: Expelling Demons in the Land of Plenty, Bantam Books, 2002. =A36.99 An account of Cuneo's encounters as an 'investigative sociologist' and observer among both Protestant and Catholic exorcists in the USA. Cuneo argues that the exorcism industry has grown into the mainstream of American culture, from a nearly forgotten backwater, following the publicity surrounding the film The Exorcist. The film and subsequent best-selling books such as Malachi Martin's semi-pornographic Hostage to the Devil constructed images of what possession means and how it can be dealt with. Exorcism ministries grew up in a variety of charismatic, evangelical and theologically conservative groups across the United States. In his searches Cuneo never actually comes across the sort of dramatic events he hears about, such as levitations and heads turning 180 degrees, though there is one occasion where everyone else present swears such a levitation takes place, but Cuneo sees nothing. One of the more rational Catholic exorcists having 'seen' such a levitation himself, now thinks that in some sense his senses were enchanted, and not by demons. Those coming for exorcism suffer usually from a variety of anxieties; some would no doubt be diagnosed as suffering from obsessive compulsive disorder and others from depressions of various severities. Others just seem to have normal human problems. Indeed the main problem is their quite natural inability to achieve the impossible perfectionist demands of their sub-culture. In this, though it looks traditional, modern day exorcism is very much an integral part of the contemporary therapeutic culture with its presentation of everyone as a victim (it's not me guv, it's the demons), and its own perfectionism. The exorcists summon up dozens of demons to account for every human situation; the psychiatrists have ranges of diagnoses for an equal number of ordinary human situations. Behind both likes a perfectionism in which happiness is not just guaranteed by the Declaration of Independence but mandatory, and if you are not permanently happy and satisfied you have a problem which needs professional help to solve. If there is a lacuna in this book, it is perhaps the lack of attention to the deeper sociological causes of the exorcism movement. The Exorcist was surely a child of its times; it is no coincidence that its 'victim' is a teenage girl who violates the community's sense of appropriate behaviour; she is sexually aggressive, foul mouthed and dirty, all phenomena of the 1960s youth rebellion. The Exorcist portrays the priest-hero (Cuneo's phrase) as defending traditional religious and social values against disturbing forces, of reinforcing the boundaries of culture against the wild things outside. Cuneo shows how the image of the priest-hero was attractive to many priests who found their traditional patriarchal role threatened by theological and social liberalism. In the Protestant exorcism groups, there is the equal suspicion that what is really being exorcised is secular modernity itself. More could have been made of the very high profile of women in many of these groups, as both victims and 'discerners of spirits'. Women also have high profiles in possession cults in other cultures. As victims they can give vent to frustrations and aggressive tendencies repressed by the culture, and blame the demons. As sniffers out of spirits (yes many discerners claim to detect the possessed by their body odour) they can gain power and status in cultures where they are usually expected to be submissive to male authority. As a good sociologist Cuneo won't pronounce as to whether 'real' demons exist, though readers can form their own opinions. As to exorcism he is ambivalent; as a placebo it may often be of real therapeutic value, but its culture of passing the buck onto the demons and the quick fix solution make him uneasy. Magonia readers will find many of his insights into the role of popular culture in the promotion of 'deep' beliefs and experiences, and in world view and perception building, applicable across a range of topics. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Listers may also like to checkout the latest additions to the Magonia Website, most particularly the Pelican's contribution: www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/00/newmag.htm -- John Rimmer Magonia Magazine www.magonia.demon.co.uk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 23 Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 23:14:39 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 18:53:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Hall >From: Andrew Dabrowski <dabrowsa@indiana.edu> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 13:20:56 -0500 >Subject: Trans en Provence A Hoax? >The possibility that the Trans en Provence CE-2 was a hoax was >mentioned here recently. >Jenny Randles in 'The UFOs that Never Were' also endorses the >hoax theory. This is a page with an article by Eric Maillot. >http://www.zetetique.ldh.org/tep.html >Reactions? I don't read French, but have addressed these issues in The UFO Evidence, Volume II. If, indeed, Jenny Randles buys into the hoax hypothesis, then my previously expressed admiration for her will take a severely negative turn. So far I haven't seen anything even close to meaningful evidence of a hoax. - Dick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 23 Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Walter From: Werner Walter <cenap@addcom.de> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 00:53:09 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 22:33:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Walter >From: Andrew Dabrowski <dabrowsa@indiana.edu> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 13:20:56 -0500 >Subject: Trans en Provence A Hoax? >The possibility that the Trans en Provence CE-2 was a hoax was >mentioned here recently. >Jenny Randles in 'The UFOs that Never Were' also endorses the >hoax theory. This is a page with an article by Eric Maillot. >http://www.zetetique.ldh.org/tep.html >Reactions? A wish for an English-language translation of the site's text! WW Werner Walter, c/o CENAP Mannheim Centrales Erforschungs-Netz au=DFergew=F6hnlicher Himmelsph=E4nomene Herausgeber des Print-Journals CENAP REPORT Betreiber der deutschen UFO-Meldestelle unter Telefon: 0049(0)621 - 701370 CENAP-Kern-URL mit weiteren Links unter: http://www.alien.de/cenap Deutschlands UFO-Nachrichten-Ticker unter: http://www.alien.de/cenap/cenapnews Projekt UFO-Identifizierung unter: http://www.alien.de/kirstein/idf.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 23 EuroSETI? Whats That? From: Werner Walter <cenap@ADDCOM.DE> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 00:47:36 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 22:36:48 -0500 Subject: EuroSETI? Whats That? Hello all, I=B4m wondering about the EuroSETI-group in England. Has anyone heard of Mike Murray before and EuroSETI? Is EuroSETI on the Web? Greetings WW Werner Walter, c/o CENAP Mannheim Centrales Erforschungs-Netz au=DFergew=F6hnlicher Himmelsph=E4nomene Herausgeber des Print-Journals CENAP REPORT Betreiber der deutschen UFO-Meldestelle unter Telefon: 0049(0)621 - 701370 CENAP-Kern-URL mit weiteren Links unter: http://www.alien.de/cenap Deutschlands UFO-Nachrichten-Ticker unter: http://www.alien.de/cenap/cenapnews Projekt UFO-Identifizierung unter: http://www.alien.de/kirstein/idf.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 24 Re: Triangles Suspended Above His Head? - Brock From: Rod Brock <humble98225@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 18:21:25 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 16:22:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Triangles Suspended Above His Head? - Brock >From: Michael Harman <rocketman5047@yahoo.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 11:36:27 -0800 (PST) >Subject: Triangles Suspended Above His Head? >Just wanted to throw this out there to see if anyone has >experienced anything like it. >My son when he was 8 or 9 years old, came running into our >bedroom crying. He said that he had triangles suspended over >his head and that they followed him whereever he went and >that he couldn't get rid of them. >He also had several perfect, light colored circles rimmed with >white dots going around each one. Hi, Mike, I speculate that perhaps your son experienced what is known as "acephalgic migraine," which is the experience of a visual "aura" without the characteristic onset of migraine pain ~30 minutes after the aura manifests. As background, an "aura" is a kind of hallucination (although not exclusively visual) that approximately 20% of migraine sufferers experience before the onset of migraine pain. However, it is well known that aura may be experienced without any onset of pain, hence the term "acephalgic migraine." It also can happen to you once in your life, and never happen again; indeed, I know someone who experienced an isolated aura. He went to the ER, terrified, because there was this "ribbon, like a flag in the wind" across his visual field. It went away before he could even see the doctor, and the ER doctor concluded it was acephalgic migraine and sent him home. They told him that, most likely, what he interepreted as a "flag in the wind" across his visual field was a sort of zig-zag "scotoma" that is frequently reported by those who experience aura. I wouldn't know anything about this, if it weren't for the fact that my ex-wife was cursed by migraine with aura. She experienced the most commonly reported aura, "photopsia:" sparkling lights that began around the edges of her vision, and then moved into her direct visual field, sometimes making it difficult for her to see. The aura would pass in 30-45 minutes, at which time the headache developed. I did some reading about auras, after that, as it scared her (and me)the first time it happened to her, since we had no idea what was happening. Apparently, there are a wide range of visual auras: metamorphopsia (objects change shape), micropsia (objects look smaller) macropsia (objects look larger), distorted contours (e.g., sharp corners look round), changes in color, and a host of others too numerous to mention. Here's something interesting from "Neurologyreviews.com" SEATTLE_"A rare visual abnormality _ acute complete upside-down reversal of vision _ joins the list of visual disturbances that can herald a migraine attack. At the 124th Annual Meeting of the American Neurological Association, researchers described the rare phenomenon in two case reports." "Two teenagers (ages 18 and 19) experienced intermittent episodes of reversal of vision over a period exceeding one year..." http://www.neurologyreviews.com/dec99/nr_dec99_Migraine.html As an aside, in the course of my reading about auras, I learned that Lewis Carrol (the author of "Alice in Wonderland") suffered terribly with migraines throughout his life. Those who have seen the Disney version of "Alice" may recall that Alice drank from two bottles: one to make her big, and one to make her small. Well, in the original story, the bottles were pills. The verse goes something like this: "one pill to make you big, one to make you small, but the pills that mother gives don't do anything at all." It has been suggested that this was a reference to visual aura (micropsia, macropsia) experienced in his youth, before the onset of migraine pain, and that Carrol was relating the experience of the aura to the pills that followed, pills that(predictably) didn't "do anything at all" (since acute migraine pain is often resistant to even modern painkillers). I suppose Disney must have swtiched "pill" to "bottle," in Alice and Wonderland, for obvious reasons... Regards, Rod Brock ===== The wild gander leads his flock through the cool night, Ya-honk he says, and sounds it down to me like an invitation, The pert may suppose it meaningless, but I listening close, Find its purpose and place up there toward the wintry sky. - Walt Whitman, "Song of Myself"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 24 Re: Alien 'Proof' Rejected As Hype - Winterflood From: John Winterflood <jwinter@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 12:04:03 +0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 16:27:05 -0500 Subject: Re: Alien 'Proof' Rejected As Hype - Winterflood >From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 19:34:54 -0400 >Subject: Re: Alien 'Proof' Rejected As Hype >>John Winterflood <jwinter@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> wrote: >>... This would allow immediate identification >>of all planets and stars in all the interesting satellite >>photographs which could then be culled to see if there are any >>really interesting ones left over (with unexpected asteroids or >>even UFOs).... >I think we're jumping the gun anyway. They claim there are 700 >plus images that are anomalous. Perhaps it's best to wait until >they are all available. With 700 to choose from, they should have culled all but the very best, and to avoid ridicule they should avoid all suggestion of pixel aligned streaks being craft structure. >While I'm at it - someone provided the online logs of the NASA >logs pertaining to strange or anomalous objects spotted by the >SOHO camera. I promptly lost that URL. If anyone knows what it >was would they please email it to me. The comments were quite >interesting. It wasn't me, but I have taken an interest in this before. They don't call the unusual objects "anomalous" - they call them "debris"! There is a list here although it seems to have not been updated since January 2001: ftp://lasco6.nascom.nasa.gov/pub/lasco/status/LASCO_Debris_List The listed debris pictures can be found here: http://ares.nrl.navy.mil/debris_gif/ One should note that many of the "suspicious streaks" are very faint and cannot be seen with the naked eye in the original photo but can only be observed by subtracting one photo from a previous (very similar) one to notice differences. As a result many of the gifs listed are the subtraction of two photos. Here is one: http://ares.nrl.navy.mil/debris_gif/960827_c3.gif Here is one that is still a subtraction but not so faint: http://ares.nrl.navy.mil/debris_gif/960905_c3.gif Some are so obvious they don't need to be subtracted. Here is a beauty complete with "suncruiser" UFO!: http://ares.nrl.navy.mil/debris_gif/deb_960606c3.gif And another interesting one: http://ares.nrl.navy.mil/debris_gif/deb_970214c3.gif In these pictures the little circle in the middle is the approximate position and size of the sun while the larger grey circle is the part that has been masked with the external occulting disk. The dark diagonal streak leading from the lower left corner to the central disk is the occulting disk support structure. One should note that the LASCO instrument has THREE cameras taking photos of the the coronal area and they are called C1, C2 and C3. C1 uses internal mirror occulting (so doesn't have the support structure) and images the coronal area from 1.1 sun radii (ie just outside the suns disk) out to 3 sun radii. C2 and C3 use an external occulting disk (which has the advantage of more shadowing of the brighter inner areas) and cover the areas from 2 to 6 sun radii, and 3.7 to 32 sun radii respectively. >Tom Bowden <tomrbowden@yahoo.com> wrote: >The SOHO is photographing the sun, therefore it would have to >have a relatively small aperture, which is the opening which >admits light through the camera lens and onto the digital >sensors. Too large an aperature would admit too much light, >which in this case would probably overload the digital >receptors. This information can be verified with NASA, or >whoever is familiar with SOHO's cameras. I am sure the SOHO >cameras were specially designed for this mission. Trevor Seguin <dragko@shaw.ca> wrote: >...These images >are of the Sun and the Sun fills the field of view. These >objects are very small in relation to the sun. There is a separate instrument called the EIT which photographs the suns disk itself. The LASCO cameras have large apertures which are kept open for long periods of time (typically 20 seconds, but depending on the coloured filters which may be clicked in, the exposure time varies from 15 to 150 seconds). The LASCO cameras easily photograph many stars in the immediate vicinity of the sun (which is an effect observable on earth only during an eclips). Trevor Seguin <dragko@shaw.ca> wrote: >...if the items we see are Dust/Ice >close to the lens would they not be so severely out of focus you >would not even recognize them? Indeed, the streaks in the pictures I pointed to above are, I believe, out-of-focus particles of dust, probably bouncing off (or repelled by the electric field of) the occulting disk: http://ares.nrl.navy.mil/debris_gif/deb_970214c3.gif The interesting thing is that the image of the object seems to have very sharp edges and shows some structure - not just a fuzzy out-of-focus blob. I believe this is because the particle is very small and so it is actually acting as a point source of light and is effectively "imaging" (or casting a shadow of) the optics of the camera onto the CCD. Thus the structure you can see (the lighter streak down the middle) is actually the occulting disk. Maybe Bruce Maccabee might be persuaded to take an interest in some of these photos if there are some good ones? Tim Edwards <tedwards@wiredog.com> asked: >Thanks for reminding me of this. Does anyone know whether SOHO >can zoom in or out? I am certain that there is no zoom capability. I am also certain that there would not be any focus capability as the cameras are only intended for imaging the coronal area and are simply fixed at infinity. The LASCO user handbook may be found here: http://lasco-www.nrl.navy.mil/handbook/hndbk.html Chaz Stuart <Daydisk2@webtv.net> wrote: >...This is just speculation, but perhaps some of the images >_were_ seen at angles but were turned towards us (squared up) >by those enlarging the images. Trevor Seguin <dragko@shaw.ca> wrote: >...I believe they may have even rotated some of the images so >the 'disc' like shape sat horizontally. I doubt that very much! but I would be happy to be proved wrong. >Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote: >But there are non-aligned anomalies as >well. It's also my understanding that there are multi-frame >shots of the same object. >Trevor Seguin <dragko@shaw.ca> replied: >Yes in my understanding there are some objects that move across >the frame at varying speeds and directions. Some even appearing >to move towards SOHO... Yes objects with non-aligned structure that are picked up by more than one of the 3 LASCO cameras, and objects that move in non- gravitational motion (that are not nearby dust particles) are very interesting. I hope EUROSETI focus on these types and don't show their ignorance with hundreds of misinterpreted mundane ones!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 24 Podesta On Classification In The Context Of UFOs From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 05:28:38 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 16:29:16 -0500 Subject: Podesta On Classification In The Context Of UFOs Source: Center for Psychology and Social Change, http://centerchange.org/center/center_news.asp?id=3D148 Stig *** Transcript of remarks by John Podesta, former Clinton White House Chief of Staff, on Gov't Classification in the context of alien encounters/UFOs This news item may be of interest to members of the Center who have expressed an interest in our explorations into the human dimension of alien encounters - our study of the ways in which people are affected by extraordinary experiences. The Center does not investigate UFO sightings per se, however developments in this area (such as those discussed in the event described below) may eventually be relevant to our study of human experience. ** Transcript of remarks made by John Podesta, former Chief of Staff to President Bill Clinton at SCI FI CHANNEL SPONSORED PRESS CONFERENCE, October 22, 2002, Lisagor Room, National Press Club, Washington, DC Citing the importance to the public of declassifying government records, John Podesta, former Clinton White House Chief of Staff, spoke in the context of the SCI FI Channel's announcement of an effort to gain release of government records on unidentified aerial phenomena, commonly referred to as UFOs. I thought I might start with the famous line with Admiral Stockdale "Who am I? What am I doing here?" Or Maybe I should start with who I am not? I have actually never been followed by a tractor beam. I have never been bathed in the glow of the white light coming from an object in the sky. I certainly have never been 'taken'. Why my obsession with... for some of you was well known while I was in the White House with the X-files during my time there. It earned me the honorary title of the "First Fan", I think I always understood the difference between fact and fiction. So I guess you could call me a skeptic. But I am skeptical about many things, including the notion that government always knows best, and that the people can not be trusted with the truth. That's why I have dedicated three decades of my life, both in private practice including my work on the Senate Judiciary Committee, and my work at the White House to the fundamental principle of protecting openness in government. Harold Cross, for those of you who know who he is - was actually the founder of the Freedom of Information Act - the father of the Freedom of Information Act. He was a well known journalism professor at the University of Missouri. He said, "The right to speak, and the right to print, without the right to know, are pretty empty." So I believe that the notion of open government Freedom of Information - the fundamental tenets of the Freedom of Information Act are really part and parcel of our first amendment rights. I think it is worth going back and reminding all of you just exactly what those tenets really are, that form the basis of that act. They are that disclosure is the general rule and not the exception. That all individuals have equal rights of access. That the burden is on the government to justify the withholding of the document, not on the person requesting it, and that individuals improperly denied access to documents have the right seek conjunctive relief in the courts. That's why I am here today, to add my voice to Bonnie (Hammer), Leslie (Kean) and Lee (Helfrich). I think it's time to open the books on questions that have remained in the dark on the question of government investigations of UFOs. Its time to find out what the truth really is that's out there. We ought to do it really because its right. We ought to do it because the American people quite frankly can handle the truth, and we ought to do it because it's the law. Let me explain what I mean by that. In 1995, President Clinton signed Executive Order 12958 which sets tough standards for classifying documents, and led to an unprecedented effort to declassify millions of pages from our Nation's diplomatic and national security history. Before President Clinton signed that Executive Order, a tiny minority of classified documents - only 5% had fixed classification dates. Since the signing of that order now, more than 50% of those documents are marked for declassification in 10 years or less. Perhaps I think even more significantly during the five years that the executive order was in place, its policy resulted in the declassification of what were 800 million pages of historically valuable records, with the prospect of many hundreds of millions of more being declassified in the next few years. To give you a bit of a comparison of that. In the previous 15 years the government had declassified a total of 188 million pages. So I think that was a singular accomplishment of the Clinton administration for further generations. Our history books will rely on the information contained in those declassified documents. Scholars, historians, journalists, and everyday researchers around the world, not just in the United States will explore the past and help guide our future. But the work is not done. That Order required the automatic declassification of records that are 25 years or older, subject to a very narrow set of exceptions, and I want to just note two of those, and as an introduction to Lee, who is going to talk about the Freedom of Information Act that has been requested. One is that they reveal the automatic declassification rule does not apply if it reveals the identity of a confidential human source - and I underline the word human. I don't think that we are talking about that in the cases that ought to be looked at, reviewed, and declassified. The other is they would curiously or demonstrably undermine ongoing diplomatic activities of the United States, and unless we have ongoing diplomatic activities with people who are extraterrestrials that I'm unaware of, I don't think that exception doesn't apply either. So there are these cases in which documents haven't been made available to the American public. The American public as Bonnie noted is quite skeptical about the fact that the government won't make them available for public inspection. These are records that are more than 25 years old. The ought to be declassified. They ought to be released, and we ought to be able to see for ourselves what is included in those. This note this morning in the Washington Post. Again a Novak story, that notes that our government does not always reveal the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, and even though the highest leaders of our government don't always tell the facts just as they are. That's why the Freedom of Information is so important, and the information that is included in the request that Lee will discuss. It is so critical to be put in front of the American public so that they can make their own judgement about the conduct of the program of investigation as well as the underlying facts that the Air Force and others discover. So with that let me turn it over to Lee, and let her discuss the request that is being made. --- UPDATE: BRITAIN TAKES LEAD In a related development, Reuters News Service reported shortly after this event that the British government will start to declassify some of its files. The declassification began in late November. Thu November 28, 2002 10:59 AM ET LONDON (Reuters) - The British government will publish files on reported UFO sightings as part of a shake-up of its laws on freedom of information. "These first steps mark important progress toward changing the culture of government and extending the public's right to know what is being done in their name," Freedom of Information Minister Yvette Cooper said in a statement. The government says it intends to repeal or amend up to 100 pieces of legislation which currently prohibit disclosure of information. It aims to replace them with provisions of a new Freedom of Information Act, passed in 2000. ** =A9 2001 The Center for Psychology and Social Change P.O. Box 398080 Cambridge, MA 02139 tel. (617) 497-2667 fax. (617) 497-0122
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 24 Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? From: Remy Le Chevalier <remy.lechevalier@cp.finances.gouv.fr> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 10:13:43 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 16:33:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? >>From: Andrew Dabrowski <dabrowsa@indiana.edu> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 13:20:56 -0500 >>Subject: Trans en Provence A Hoax? >Jenny Randles in 'The UFOs that Never Were' also endorses the >hoax theory. This is a page with an article by Eric Maillot. >http://www.zetetique.ldh.org/tep.html The 'Cercle Zetetique' is the most extreme French 'skeptics' organization. It doesn't mean they are necessarily wrong, but it is clear that whatever they say derives from their a-priori that 1) science has discovered everything that matters ; 2) there's no science done outside university thinking. Their agenda is to make sure everyone 'understands' that. Still, their arguments ought to be analysed ; there are really scientists among them after all, besides the social theoricians. As for the hoax theory, its main problem is that it doesn't explain the trace left on the ground and the modifications in the soil. The usual explanation was that the person who did the analysis, Michel Bounias, was somehow biased. If I'm not wrong, the very serious SEPRA, (the pertinent division of the 'Centre National d'Etudes Spatiales') which, to be honest, consists almost solely of Jean Jacques Velasco, considers that case to be genuine, whatever the conclusion may ultimately be regarding its source. Best Regards RL
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 24 Re: Magonia Supplement 45 - Friedman From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 08:32:19 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 17:08:11 -0500 Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 45 - Friedman >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 21:28:17 +0000 >Subject: Magonia Supplement 45 >MAGONIA SUPPLEMENT 45 >Edited by John Harney (magonia@harneyj.freeserve.co.uk) >22 January 2003 <snip> Re MJ 12. It was noted that Phil Klass did indeed pay me $1000. for presenting more than 10 genuine NSC documents using Pica type. What wasn't mentioned was that Klass had never been to the Eisenhower Library. They have 250,000 pages of NSC materials. The notion that one could generalize from the 9 elite type documents Klass had obtained by mail to the 250,000 is typical of the intellectual bankruptcy of the pseudoscience of anti- ufology. Speaking of the Cutler Twining memo found in Box 189, of entry 267, of Record Group 341, it was stated: >if it was a fake, it could only have been inserted by the men >who claimed to have discovered it ,Bill Moore andJaime Shandera. This is simply untrue. According to personnel of the National Archives, Box 189 was first handled by their people less than 3 weeks after the death of the last survivor - Dr. Jerome Hunsaker, aged 98 - of the original MJ 12 group who died on Sept. 10, 1984. His obit was in the NY Times on Sept. 12. The EBD and TF memos were received on film in December 1984. Box 189 was last handled before Moore and Shandera saw it in early July, 1985, after receiving unusual post cards which included one with a return address of Box 189, Addis Ababa. So a fake document could have been inserted just as easily by the declassification crew as was the real CT memo. Unfortunately the Archives refused to release the names of the box handlers. >Friedman's favorite argument is that the MJ-12 documents were >confirmed by his previous researches which were known to only a >handful of people including Bill Moore and Jaime Shandera. Sorry but this is total rubbish. The whole point is that no one, including myself, Moore, and Shandera, knew a whole host of details determined to be true _after_ receipt of the documents and not known to be true before they were received. I had a list of more than 30 such items in my 108 page "Final Report on Operation Majestic 12" and in "TOP SECRET/MAJIC". The list is longer now, of course, because of more research such as finding that the GAO had noted documents classified as Top Secret Restricted. One much more recent report is my 2000 MUFON paper :"Roswell and The MJ-12 Documents in the New Millennium". All of these are still available from UFORI, POB 958, Houlton, ME 04730-0958 for those interested in real research as opposed to the armchair variety. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 24 Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Morris From: Neil Morris <neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 14:57:47 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 17:11:24 -0500 Subject: Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Morris >From: Jim Houran <JHouran@siumed.edu> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 12:05:01 -0600 >Subject: Re: Validating The Ramey Memo >>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 12:22:45 -0800 >>Subject: Validating The Ramey Memo >>>From: Neil Morris <neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk> >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 14:30:10 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: Validating The Ramey Memo >Hi List, >I appreciate the comments and welcome criticisms. Let me clarify >some of my earlier statements re: methodology. I won't clarify >them all, because I refer readers to my original JSE article for >counter arguments to most of the proposals made by Rudiak. >First, when I likened the problem of the Ramey Memo to the >problems associated with deciphering the Dead Sea Scrolls, the >analogy concerns the analytical methods used in enhancing the >text, not interpreting the text. Naturally, one needs be >familiar with the period of history and language in question to >decipher and/or reconstruct documents such as the Dead Sea >Scrolls (i.e, to recognize the letters on the scrolls). Jim, Sorry to labor the point but I still don't see the connection especially were enhancing the text is concerned, the two are like chalk and cheese. Many of the less battered scrolls once unrolled could be read by those who understood old Hebrew. Infra-red photography enhanced many areas where text was worn by age and/or surface damage, but the greatest task was the re assembly of the scrolls where they had become fragmented, a jigsaw puzzle on a giant scale. The other piece of clever enhancement that I'm aware of, was done in the last couple of years in the US. I think it was two of the scrolls this group were working with, had over the years, become carbonised and what remained was as fragile as black ash with black ink writing on it's surface, totally unreadable. How they eventually read the scroll after the tricky task of unrolling it had been completed was by use of what sounds like a scanning spectrometer. They found a "window" in the spectrum somewhere in the ultra-violet region where there was a good differential in absorption between the ink used and the carbonised scroll material. Scanning the scroll with the spectrometer operating in this "window" of wavelengths produced a much enhanced and readable image of the text. How you then equate these procedures to a small area of film negative or even a large print from that small area of negative I just don't see. The two are completely different technical problems. The scrolls _are_ a vast jigsaw puzzle, but in the main the pieces of the puzzle have fragments of text which _can_ be read clearly and just require the time and contextual knowledge to find their true mates. The Ramey message image is a whole area of document _but_, rather than having pieces missing or jumbled as with the scrolls, it has had it's information content degraded over all because it is recorded on a medium at the very limits of it's data recording capabilities if not beyond them. A simple analogy is to imagine Ramey as giving the message text over a shortwave radio transmission. If we were just down the street from the transmitter (ie if the camera had been just one foot away) we would have no difficulty hearing(seeing) the text. But try tuning in from several hundred miles away(move the camera back several feet), now we've got lots of static noise making some words a bit ambiguous plus the signals fading in and out so we keep missing other words completely!. >Fortunately, the Ramey memo is not ancient text so theoretically >anyone who knows English should be able to recognize/read the >letters/sentences/phrases if they are clear/legible. What I >feel is needed is state-of-the-art enhancement of the document >by analysts who are not primed to interpret ambiguous letters >according to their preconceived notions. In our JSE study, >subjects were not given any time limit to decipher the text, and >this important point was not mentioned by Rudiak. Just because >some subjects took less time than others does not mean that we >imposed some limit. As suspected by Rudiak and noted by us in >the article, the motivation of the subjects (likely influenced >by the context of the task) probably played a major role here. >Of course, experimentally blind analysts do not necessarily need >a 'context' in order to keep them motivated on the task (i.e., >not frustrated), they simply need time and money (and I am sure >that many already have curiosity for trying to solve problems). >I know, I have actually asked several labs about what would keep >them motivated. How much time is an answer no one can answer. It >depends on several factors, as Rudiak and any experienced >researcher knows. >As I write this, I see that I already addressed the second >methodological point: do analysts need a context or not to see >the letters? Yes, they only need to know the English alphabet in >order to recognize reliably the letters. That assumes that >computer enhancement by independent and unbiased labs can render >the text significantly more legible for subsequent reading by >unbiased individuals. Regretably I don't think you've looked that closely at the technical problems involved. Film has a finite image resolution, normally defined in lines per inch. If you check film makers specs for their film emulsions you'll see these quoted. As they infer, they define the max number of individual black and white lines that can be resolved together over the width of one inch of the negative. The film _cannot_ resolve any detail finer than this limit, it is a physical limit usually set by the photosensitive emulsion "grain" size used in the film base and the method of the emulsion's development. You can see this "grain" clearly defined in Stanton Friedman's high resolution Ramey Message scan. If you are looking at the grain in a photographic negative to put it bluntly that's all you are going to see, there isn't any more information physically recorded on the film to "enhance" out. You've then got to fall back on "interpretation" of the available image information you can resolve up to that limit. This data can be enhanced further but then other considerations have to be addressed, see later. >Rudiak and others may disagree, but in my >opinion, only text that can be read under these conditions is >reliable. "Blind procedures" are the standard in objective, >empirical research where confounding variables of belief and >expectation can influence the results. Yes, I maintain that >telling people anything about the supposed content of the >document invalidates any design that purports to be >unbiased/objective in deciding whether the Ramey memo can be >deciphered at all or not. I believe my study with Randle shows >that clearly. I regret, in my opinion in this case, you are setting an un- attainable hurdle again due to the physical limits of the material involved as I've outlined above. <snip> >I'd rather cut through such confounds and see if independent and >unbiased labs can manipulate the text to such a degree that they >can confirm or deny some of the key phrases (or any phrases for >that matter) that Rudiak and others (including my own >experimental subjects) perceive in the Ramey Memo. Forget for a >minute any text that Rudiak has reconstructed through a form of >probability analysis...I mean text that he states anyone can >clearly read after enhancement and which is posted on his >website. Either independent and unbiased labs can replicate >these findings or not. That is not peer-review, but rather a >conceptual replication study. And, a desperately needed one at >that from my perspective. Again Jim, given the physical nature of the original material these are in all probability un-attainable requirements you are asking for. Manipulate is also an unfortunate word, manipulation infers the conscious alteration of the data set either by adding to subtracting from or processing of the original data. What remains is not the original. Conclusions drawn from this data have to be viewed in full light of this. Manipulating a data set in 6 different ways can give you 6 different results none of which may be valid unless you are very, very careful about your choice of methods and can justify the validity of their use. I suspect, after nearly 5 years studying the Ramey Memo "probability" is all you are going to get in reading _all_ the text, unless some bright spark gets hold of any file copy of the message that might be lurking in some old US Govt document box somewhere via a fortuitous FOIA request. But I think the "probability" of that happening is fairly low. Neil
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 24 Re: Credential Inflation - Klass From: Phil Klass <PhilKlass@aol.com> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 11:06:10 EST Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 22:15:48 -0500 Subject: Re: Credential Inflation - Klass >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 12:38:35 EST >Subject: Credential Inflation Dear Kevin: Bravo for your thinking. Phil Klass, BS in EE, Iowa State, 1941.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 24 Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Bourdais From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 18:59:18 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 22:18:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Bourdais >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 23:14:39 +0000 >Subject: Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? >>From: Andrew Dabrowski <dabrowsa@indiana.edu> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 13:20:56 -0500 >>Subject: Trans en Provence A Hoax? >>The possibility that the Trans en Provence CE-2 was a hoax was >>mentioned here recently. >>Jenny Randles in 'The UFOs that Never Were' also endorses the >>hoax theory. This is a page with an article by Eric Maillot. >>http://www.zetetique.ldh.org/tep.html >>Reactions? >I don't read French, but have addressed these issues in The UFO >Evidence, Volume II. If, indeed, Jenny Randles buys into the >hoax hypothesis, then my previously expressed admiration for her >will take a severely negative turn. So far I haven't seen >anything even close to meaningful evidence of a hoax. Thank you very much for you clear and fast reaction. Eric Maillot is a well-known, total skeptic, in France. There is not one valid UFO case to him, and therefore the most solid cases must be debunked, such as Trans. I had a debate with him, and he claimed that he was able to reproduce the ground trace with a truck. I suggested that he use a flying truck with an antigravity engine, and that ended our discussion. Yes, it makes me wonder about the thinking of Jenny Randles. French skeptibunkers have found some receptive ears abroad. BTW, "Zeteticens" are the French counterpart of CSICOP. Gildas Bourdais
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 24 Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Clark From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 13:03:40 -0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 22:19:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Clark >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 23:14:39 +0000 >Subject: Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? >>From: Andrew Dabrowski <dabrowsa@indiana.edu> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 13:20:56 -0500 >>Subject: Trans en Provence A Hoax? >>The possibility that the Trans en Provence CE-2 was a hoax was >>mentioned here recently. >>Jenny Randles in 'The UFOs that Never Were' also endorses the >>hoax theory. This is a page with an article by Eric Maillot. >I don't read French, but have addressed these issues in The UFO >Evidence, Volume II. If, indeed, Jenny Randles buys into the >hoax hypothesis, then my previously expressed admiration for her >will take a severely negative turn. So far I haven't seen >anything even close to meaningful evidence of a hoax. Any case that poses a threat to the fragile belief system of the pelicanist is sooner or later said to be a hoax, whether actual evidence warrants that conclusion or not. It's as predictable as a cuckoo clock. Nothing new here. Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 24 Re: Excellent AA Website - Gehrman From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 11:42:35 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 22:21:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Excellent AA Website - Gehrman >From: Joachim Koch <lists@kochkyborg.de> >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 21:34:19 +0100 >Subject: Excellent AA Website >Dear Errol & List members, >A reminder that there is a fine website, by experts in the >photographic field, dealing with the AA-footage at: >http://www.soc.org/opcam/a_autopsy/alienautopsy.html Joachim, What, in your opinion, makes this such a "fine website"? Please be specific. Ed
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 24 Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Harney From: John Harney <magonia@harneyj.freeserve.co.uk> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 21:39:32 -0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 22:22:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Harney >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 23:14:39 +0000 >Subject: Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? >>From: Andrew Dabrowski <dabrowsa@indiana.edu> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 13:20:56 -0500 >>Subject: Trans en Provence A Hoax? >>The possibility that the Trans en Provence CE-2 was a hoax was >>mentioned here recently. >>Jenny Randles in 'The UFOs that Never Were' also endorses the >>hoax theory. This is a page with an article by Eric Maillot. >>http://www.zetetique.ldh.org/tep.html >>Reactions? >I don't read French, but have addressed these issues in The UFO >Evidence, Volume II. If, indeed, Jenny Randles buys into the >hoax hypothesis, then my previously expressed admiration for her >will take a severely negative turn. So far I haven't seen >anything even close to meaningful evidence of a hoax. I don't understand how you have dealt with the issues raised in Maillot's article if you can't read it. Anyway, there's a less detailed article (in English) in Hilary Evans and Dennis Stacy (eds), "UFOs 1947-1997", John Brown Publishing London, 1997, by Eric Maillot and Jacques Scornaux, titled "Trans-en-Provence: When Science and Belief Go Hand in Hand". (I don't know if there was an American edition of this book.) Maillot and Scornaux have numerous criticisms of the investigations carried out by GEPAN (the official French UFO investigators) and they point out various inconsistencies in the witness's testimony, as well as the fact that he kept changing his story, as well as the obvious fact that there were no other witnesses. They also accuse the various investigators, official or otherwise, of having ulterior motives. I have also read (but not in this particlular article) that investigators had some trouble understanding what the witness was telling them, as he was Italian and didn't speak very good French. All of the really detailed accounts of this case do not seem to have been translated, so it's impossible for anyone to become an "expert" on it without being able to read French. John Harney
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 24 Re: Magonia Supplement 45 - Rimmer From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 22:30:11 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 22:26:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 45 - Rimmer >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 21:28:17 +0000 >Subject: Magonia Supplement 45 My apologies that some of the URLs in thr references to Nigel Watson's "Angel of Mons" article didn't work. This was due to some intrusive spaces creeping in as I cut-and-pasted them from John Harney's immaculate text document. The full bulletin is available on the Magonia website at: www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/00/ms45.htm -- John Rimmer Magonia Magazine www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/00/newmag.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 24 Re: Podesta On Classification In The Context Of From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 19:36:03 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 22:28:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Podesta On Classification In The Context Of >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 05:28:38 +0100 >Subject: Podesta On Classification In The Context Of UFOs >Source: Center for Psychology and Social Change, >http://centerchange.org/center/center_news.asp?id=148 >Stig Stig, This event would have had a lot more press coverage if we hadn't all been hiding from the "snipers" who kept the Washington DC region terrorized for more than a month. In speaking with Larry Landsman of the SciFi Channel, they knew that the timing was unfortunate but the room had to be booked well in advance and schedules had to be kept, so the National Press Club event was (unfortunately) attended by very few. I would also mention that the Sci-Fi Channel has indicated that they will continue to help where they can, and will continue their FOIA efforts through the Citizen's for Freedom of Information (CFI). Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 24 EBE-ET International Bulletin January/February 2003 From: Thiago Luiz Ticchetti <thiagolt@opengate.com.br> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 22:59:55 -0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 22:49:24 -0500 Subject: EBE-ET International Bulletin January/February 2003 Hello my friends, We are very happy to finally have published our EBE-ET International Bulletin again. This bulletin will bring to you the best UFO articles published in the UFO Magazine Brazil, and keep you updated with what happens in our country. We hope you like our work. The bulletin can be downloaded at: www.ebe-et.com.br/ebe_et_ib.htm Thank you very much! Thiago Luiz Ticchetti Vice-presidente EBE-ET/RAB UFO Magazine Brazil International Coordinator www.ebe-et.com.br [] janfev03.pdf
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 24 EW: New Mars Kid in Town From: Kurt Jonach - The Electric Warrior <eWarrior@electricwarrior.com> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 20:02:50 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 23:17:13 -0500 Subject: EW: New Mars Kid in Town From: The Electric Warrior (Kurt Jonach) -------------------------------------------------- The Electric Warrior : Web Log January 25, 2003 http://www.electricwarrior.com/ -------------------------------------------------- >> NEW MARS KID IN TOWN. MYSTERY GRIDS cydonut image: MacBot Portrait & Mars Grids http://www.electricwarrior.com/img/ewMarsKidMovie.gif (The Electric Warrior) - If you're online and interested in Cydonia then you've probably read something by MacBot at the Cydonian Imperative. Mac Tonnies is a "next generation" Cydonia writer: his in interest transhumanism brings a new spin to popular alternative science topics like ET, UFOs and the Face on Mars. Tonnies' approach is different from the Shout First and Ask Questions Later attitude that pervades the Internet. A recent edition of his Web log draws a line between Arctic stone circles on Earth and anomalous grid lines on Mars. Tonnies thinks the recent scientific discoveries might provide a natural explanation for what other researchers have called evidence for cities on Mars. "As of right now, it's more suggestion than explanation, but maybe it will provoke some thoughtful debate," says Tonnies. In an email exchange he confided that the "grids" on Mars were incredibly exotic and beautiful, but probably avoided by mainstream science out of fear that people will say "Hey, that looks like a city!" His combination of honest skepticism and relentless blogging have paid off: Expect a new book about Mars Weirdness early 2004. Make no mistake about it, Tonnies believes that the Martian enigmas at Cydonia warrant careful scrutiny. Else, why write a book about it? To his credit, he's willing to revisit the anomalies every time new data comes in, and willing to question the conclusions of other researchers as well as his own. It's refreshing to read an opinion on the topic that doesn't automatically translate every unknown into Smoking Gun evidence for ET on Mars. "For a complex terrain sculpted by unfamiliar processes, amateurs examining photographs at the very limit of resolution may be in trouble," wrote Carl Sagan for Parade Magazine in 1985. "Their hopes and fears, the excitement of possible discoveries of great import, may overwhelm the usual skeptical and cautious approach of science." The Parade article is notorious among Cydonia enthusiasts for its debunking of the Mars Face. But, Sagan was also known for his optimistic search for extraterrestrial intelligence. Tonnies has a different view on the search for alien artifacts, one that encompasses a very human short-sightedness that perhaps we all share. He says it has turned out to be one of the main themes of his new book: "Looking for alien artifacts is new territory; we don't know precisely what we're looking for, so consequently we may already have it and not realize it." Like SETI scientists, Tonnies and Cydonia researchers think it's worthwhile looking for ET. What makes them different from the guys with the radio telescopes is that they want to look in our own solar system. Electric Warriors agree with Mac: We have to continuously refresh our point of view. -------------------------------------------------- MARS ONLINE : MYSTERY GRIDS http://www.electricwarrior.com/mol/ewMarsMysteryGrids.jpg This photo essay progressively zooms in on the Mars "Mystery" Grids. (Bottom right: Crater, Left: Grid field, Top right: Grid detail) The images are from Malin Space Science Systems, the folks who built the Mars Orbital Camera. You'll have to decide for yourself whether or not they show evidence of an extraterrestrial city on Mars. At 40 degrees south latitude, the area is far from the Martian pole, but since Mars is far colder than Earth then Mac Tonnies' idea about alternate thawing and freezing offers a reasonable explanation. I suppose I should warn you that this is not the opinion of a planetary scientist and that if I introduce any more healthy skepticism I risk being accused of outright debunkery! It seems to me that the grids occur in a region that ramps steeply up toward the rim of a crater. Could somebody build on a slope like that? Sure, why not? They do it all the time in San Francisco. Plus, in the unlikely event that the crater fills up with standing water, the Martians would have a terrific view of the Bay. -------------------------------------------------- GET THE WALLPAPER http://www.electricwarrior.com/gallery/ewMacBot1.jpg You can download a 600x600 version of "MacBot Transhuman" for your computer desktop. -------------------------------------------------- RELATED RESOURCES 18-Jan-03 Naturally Occurring Arctic Circles and Martian "Grids" http://www.mactonnies.com/imperative36.html TONNIES (The Cydonian Imperative) - Extensively geometric stone circles found in the Arctic have puzzled geologists for years. New research explains their formation and suggests that some of the peculiar city-like "grids" on Mars may also be naturally occurring phenomena. 16-Jan-03 Slap in the Face http://phoenixnewtimes.com/issues/2003-01-16/news3.html/1/index.html QUETTA CARPENTER (Phoenix New Times) - The controversy over the alleged doctoring of an image of Mars by an Arizona State University research center is exploding like a supernova. The back- pedaling and finger-pointing among a once-unified group of researchers claiming the government conspired to cover evidence of life on the Red Planet is as interesting as the original conspiracy itself. -------------------------------------------------- THE ELECTRIC WARRIOR January 25, 2003 Silicon Valley, CA http://www.electricwarrior.com Graphics & Gonzo -------------------------------------------------- This text is freely distributable for non-commercial purposes, provided you cite The Electric Warrior. Web developers should link here... http://www.electricwarrior.com Images are created exclusively for the Electric Warrior Website. They can be downloaded and cached for individual use, but may not be reproduced or used in any other context without permission. Readers are strongly cautioned that The Electric Warrior asserts it is OK to laugh and have a good time with some of this stuff. Lighten Up! The Electric Warrior is not responsible for the content of Web links. Content reproduced here is for informational purposes only. All copyrights Acknowledged. eWarrior@electricwarrior.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 24 Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Deschamps From: Michel M. Deschamps <ufoman@ican.net> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 22:31:43 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 23:21:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Deschamps >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 23:14:39 +0000 >Subject: Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? >>From: Andrew Dabrowski <dabrowsa@indiana.edu> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 13:20:56 -0500 >>Subject: Trans en Provence A Hoax? >>The possibility that the Trans en Provence CE-2 was a hoax was >>mentioned here recently. >>Jenny Randles in 'The UFOs that Never Were' also endorses the >>hoax theory. This is a page with an article by Eric Maillot. >>http://www.zetetique.ldh.org/tep.html >>Reactions? >I don't read French, but have addressed these issues in The UFO >Evidence, Volume II. If, indeed, Jenny Randles buys into the >hoax hypothesis, then my previously expressed admiration for her >will take a severely negative turn. So far I haven't seen >anything even close to meaningful evidence of a hoax. Let me know where I can get a copy and I'll translate it... I speak French. Cordially, Michel M. Deschamps Sudbury, Ontario, Canada
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 25 Re: Triangles Suspended Above His Head? - Brock From: Rod Brock <humble98225@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 20:27:02 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 09:00:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Triangles Suspended Above His Head? - Brock >From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 11:23:35 -0800 (PST) >Subject: Re: Triangles Suspended Above His Head? >British UFO researcher Albert Budden, working with Michael >Persinger's ideas about EM brain stimulation, thinks that some >people can develop literal allergies to EM "hot spots" >(artifically produced or otherwise). He's found that many >abductees happen to live in areas with various EM >transmitters, transformers, and other devices. >Almost makes you wonder if lining your walls with aluminum >foil actually _will_ keep the "aliens" away! Hello, Mac, It was my understanding that "magnetohallucination" was a given in the presence of extremely powerful EM fields, but I could be wrong, as I don't have any sources at hand. In any case there's a big difference between huge gauss numbers in the laboratory and the fractional gauss in "mundane" EM hotspots outside of the lab. Nevertheless, I suspend final judgement; I find Budden's ideas interesting. Re: Aluminum foil. Neat hypothesis, and testable, too. Opens one up to jokes about living in a gilded [Faraday] cage, though. ;-) Regards, Rod Brock ===== The wild gander leads his flock through the cool night, Ya-honk he says, and sounds it down to me like an invitation, The pert may suppose it meaningless, but I listening close, Find its purpose and place up there toward the wintry sky. - Walt Whitman, "Song of Myself"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 25 Re: Credential Inflation - Brock From: Rod Brock <humble98225@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 22:39:56 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 09:02:11 -0500 Subject: Re: Credential Inflation - Brock >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 12:38:35 EST >Subject: Credential Inflation >Second, and relevant to us, is here is a woman who inflated >her academic resume (as we see repeatedly in Ufology) and there >were severe consequences. I think being charged with a felony >is rather severe. In Ufology, we'd claim that the government, >for some ill-defined and obviously nefarious reason has chosen >to "wipe her record clean" to disguise the importance of her >work. We would swarm to her defense with all sorts of reasons >to reject the allegations. Somehow this would become proof that >she was telling us the truth. And to think that such foolishness is just the tip of the iceberg in regard to the logical errors/fallacies, both subtle and gross, perpetrated and perpetuated by so many self- proclaimed "ufologists." Then, there is the situation where real scientists, with genuine credentials, are lambasted by "ufologists" with squat credentials for being interested in quantum gravity or buckyballs, while turning a jaundiced eye towards ufology. If I had a college credit for every time I encountered this kind of anti-science, anti-establishment viewpoint, in my former role as a section leader for the MSN UFO Forum, Henry Kissinger would be doing my taxes. R.B.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 25 Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Roberts From: Andy Roberts <aj.roberts@blueyonder.co.uk> Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 08:47:34 -0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 09:06:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Roberts Pilgrims, The on-going thread about the Trans-en-Provence case amuses for several reasons and illustrates perfectly the lack of any insight on the part of some List members. * Jenny Randles didn't write the piece - I did * Nowhere it the piece do I say the case is a hoax * In fact in the half page space it occupies the case is split into a short precis, an 'Is It Real?' section, an 'Is It Solved?' section and Conclusion * This was one of several short pieces in UFOs That Never Were and occupies two thirds of a page, in and among full chapter analysis of cases * This is what I write in the conclusions: Often touted as one of the best examples of a Close Encounter of the Second Kind (CEII), the Trans- en-Provence case actually rests on the shaky testimony of its sole witness. Statements from Niccolai have seriously undermined his credibility. When his wife returned home that day he told her: "Your cat is back. Extraterrestrials brought him home." On a TV show about the same case he said: "Maybe I saw something. Maybe it's a story... I say I, too, during the night I dream." Now girls and boys, if you are prepared to hang your belief on this case being a 'structured craft of unknown origin' on the statement of one witness who says the above - well, you're welcome to it. Niccolai also said at another time: "There are many silly people in the world. On some future day I shall tell you the whole truth". Which seems to indicate he hadn't told the whole truth in the first place. Which could well suggest the case was a hoax, when combined with his other statements and the other problems with the case. Unless, and by golly I think I've cracked the case, unless he was just being post-modern Colin? Those wacky Frenchmen eh? Happy Trails Andy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 25 Expect More Washington Military Overflights From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 05:35:45 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 09:10:21 -0500 Subject: Expect More Washington Military Overflights For those living in the Washington DC area. There will be likely many military overflights in that area ddue to an extended area restriction over DC. See following. --- Flight Operations Prohibited During President's State of the Union Address All general aviation flight operations are prohibited - no IFR, no VFR - within a 30 nautical-mile radius of the U.S. Capital building and below 18,000 feet AGL from 8-11 p.m. EST on January 28 for the President's State of the Union address before both houses of Congress. NOTAM 3/0642 prohibits all flights other than TSA-approved military, law enforcement, and medical/lifeguard aircraft (and those parts 121,125, and 129 operations that meet TSA requirements). TSA reiterates that the consequences of violating this airspace could be extremely serious. --- Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 25 Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Rimmer From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 10:31:06 +0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 09:11:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Rimmer >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 13:03:40 -0600 >Subject: Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 23:14:39 +0000 >>Subject: Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? >>I don't read French, but have addressed these issues in The UFO >>Evidence, Volume II. If, indeed, Jenny Randles buys into the >>hoax hypothesis, then my previously expressed admiration for her >>will take a severely negative turn. So far I haven't seen >>anything even close to meaningful evidence of a hoax. >Any case that poses a threat to the fragile belief system of the >pelicanist is sooner or later said to be a hoax, whether actual >evidence warrants that conclusion or not. It's as predictable as >a cuckoo clock. Nothing new here. >Jerry Clark Jerry, I'm surprised that you think Jenny Randles is a Pelicanist. It's clear that the leading figures in American ufology now interpret _any_ questioning of the classic UFO cases as terminal Pelicanism. How sad. -- John Rimmer Magonia Magazine www.magonia.demon.co.uk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 25 Reality Avoidance From: Larry Hatch <larry@LARRYHATCH.NET> Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 04:16:41 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 09:15:19 -0500 Subject: Reality Avoidance Hello: My sister sent me this limerick, quite by chance. A great Irish thinker named Barkley, Expressed his beliefs, oh, so starkly. "Almost all that we see, Cannot possibly be, And the rest I conceive is unlarkly." [burp!] - LH
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 25 Re: Excellent AA Website - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 04:44:22 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 09:21:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Excellent AA Website - Hatch >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 11:42:35 -0800 >Subject: Re: Excellent AA Website >>From: Joachim Koch <lists@kochkyborg.de> >>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 21:34:19 +0100 >>Subject: Excellent AA Website >>Dear Errol & List members, >>A reminder that there is a fine website, by experts in the >>photographic field, dealing with the AA-footage at: >>http://www.soc.org/opcam/a_autopsy/alienautopsy.html >Joachim, >What, in your opinion, makes this such a "fine website"? Please >be specific. >Ed Hello Ed, Joachim: I found every part of the web page interesting and informative. I cannot point to any one or two places that were better or worse than others, so I suggest than anyone who missed out should go take a good look again. Sadly, Col. Corso does not appear in the Santilli/Longo footage. http://www.soc.org/opcam/a_autopsy/alienautopsy.html Best wishes - Larry Hatch = = = =
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 25 Re: Excellent AA Website - Morris From: Neil Morris <neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk> Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 10:17:16 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 09:23:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Excellent AA Website - Morris >From: Joachim Koch <lists@kochkyborg.de> >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 21:34:19 +0100 >Subject: Excellent AA Website >A reminder that there is a fine website, by experts in the >photographic field, dealing with the AA-footage at: >http://www.soc.org/opcam/a_autopsy/alienautopsy.html Excellently full of factual errors... I'll be glad to itemise if requested. Neil
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 25 Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Roberts From: Andy Roberts <aj.roberts@blueyonder.co.uk> Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 08:47:34 -0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 09:06:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Roberts Pilgrims, The on-going thread about the Trans-en-Provence case amuses for several reasons and illustrates perfectly the lack of any insight on the part of some List members. * Jenny Randles didn't write the piece - I did * Nowhere it the piece do I say the case is a hoax * In fact in the half page space it occupies the case is split into a short precis, an 'Is It Real?' section, an 'Is It Solved?' section and Conclusion * This was one of several short pieces in UFOs That Never Were and occupies two thirds of a page, in and among full chapter analysis of cases * This is what I write in the conclusions: Often touted as one of the best examples of a Close Encounter of the Second Kind (CEII), the Trans- en-Provence case actually rests on the shaky testimony of its sole witness. Statements from Niccolai have seriously undermined his credibility. When his wife returned home that day he told her: "Your cat is back. Extraterrestrials brought him home." On a TV show about the same case he said: "Maybe I saw something. Maybe it's a story... I say I, too, during the night I dream." Now girls and boys, if you are prepared to hang your belief on this case being a 'structured craft of unknown origin' on the statement of one witness who says the above - well, you're welcome to it. Niccolai also said at another time: "There are many silly people in the world. On some future day I shall tell you the whole truth". Which seems to indicate he hadn't told the whole truth in the first place. Which could well suggest the case was a hoax, when combined with his other statements and the other problems with the case. Unless, and by golly I think I've cracked the case, unless he was just being post-modern Colin? Those wacky Frenchmen eh? Happy Trails Andy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 25 Scientists Show How To Make A UFO From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 10:48:02 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 10:48:02 -0500 Subject: Scientists Show How To Make A UFO Source: MSNBC.Com http://www.msnbc.com/news/863997.asp?0cv=CB20&cp1=1#BODY Scientists Show How To Make A UFO SOHO team responds to claims of alien craft with a laugh By Alan Boyle MSNBC Jan. 24 - The astronomers in charge of the Solar and Heliospheric Observatory issued an unusual response Friday to widely reported claims that pictures from the sun-observing satellite contained evidence of alien spacecraft: In addition to scoffing at the claims, they showed how to turn SOHO imagery into UFO snapshots. THE HOW-TO GUIDE http://www.ufomag.co.uk/euroseti.htm came in the wake of claims from a British-based group called EuroSETI that hundreds of UFO-like images had been gleaned from NASA satellite imagery. The claims were picked up by newspapers in Britain and Australia over the past week or two, linking the photographs to SOHO, a $1 billion U.S.-European satellite that observes the sun from a vantage point 1 million miles from Earth. The Perth Times http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/hotshots/2003_01_17/NewspaperSOHOsmall.jpg headlined its article 'UFO' on NASA camera', while the Evening News of Scotland worked the claims into an account that declared "We're Doomed." "The images are irrefutable in that they are from official satellites owned by NASA. They resemble the kind of spacecraft we used to see in sci-fi films like Star Trek," Graham Birdsall, editor of UFO magazine, was quoted as saying in the Perth newspaper. Last week, MSNBC.com forwarded press reports about the imagery to Paal Brekke, the European Space Agency's deputy project scientist for SOHO. In response, Brekke said he was aware of the claims and thought they were "quite funny." By Friday, Brekke and his colleagues had put together a more elaborate response. "Ever since launch, there's been a number of people who've projected their fantasies onto the SOHO images, seeing flying saucers and other esoteric objects," he noted. "Mostly, we're just amused by the unfounded claims, but in recent days, we've been receiving so many questions and claims (in news stories) that we'd like to set the record straight: We've never seen anything that even suggests that there are UFOs `out there.' That is, to our (trained) eyes." Brekke pointed to the new how-to UFO guide on NASA's SOHO Web site. The cosmic-ray hit shown within the white box, part of a much larger image of the sun and its surroundings, was enlarged and processed to produce the UFO-like image seen at the top of this article. The SOHO team's technique starts out with a garden-variety image of the sun from the spacecraft's Extreme Ultraviolet Imaging Telescope. Such images often include tiny marks made by cosmic rays hitting the instrument's detector. In the SOHO team's example, one of those marks is enlarged several times, smoothed into a saucerlike shape, then filtered to give it a metallic glint. The guide said the UFO recipe also could start out with the speck-sized shapes of planets visible on some SOHO imagery, or with marks left because of detector defects, software glitches or space debris. "It should be noted that we do see objects moving in SOHO images," the guide said. "Over 500 comets have been discovered in SOHO images, most by amateurs using LASCO data which have been downloaded from the Web. That's more comets than from any other observatory, either from the ground or in space. People are looking for moving objects in these pictures all the time, and are highly motivated to find them. None of them have ever turned out to be anything other than comets." Over the years, NASA has taken various approaches to dealing with conspiracy and UFO claims. In a fact sheet: http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/facts/HTML/FS-015-HQ.html the space agency notes that no governmental agencies are currently investigating claims relating to alien spacecraft or civilizations. NASA has also disputed repeated claims that the Apollo moon landings were nothing more than Cold War hoaxes, although it recently backed away from commissioning a high- profile refutation of such claims for fear that the effort would stir up more controversy than it was worth. Brekke and his colleagues acknowledged that hard-core UFO researchers probably wouldn't accept their detailed explanation for the saucer imagery _ but they hoped the new how-to guide would "provide some information for the curious who want to investigate the claims on their own." Hot Shots from SOHO How to Make Your Own UFO http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/hotshots/2003_01_17/ What do you think? Tell Cosmic Log cosmiclog@msnbc.com ----- Thanks to GT McCoy for the lead - he wrote: Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 07:04:21 -0800 Hello, Listerions, "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!" http://www.msnbc.com/news/863997.asp?0cv=CB20 NASA Explians it all. Yes. Right. GT McCoy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 25 Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Clark From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 09:19:57 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 12:39:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Clark >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 10:31:06 +0000 >Subject: Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 13:03:40 -0600 >>Subject: Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? >>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 23:14:39 +0000 >>>Subject: Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? Sigh, John, >>>I don't read French, but have addressed these issues in The UFO >>>Evidence, Volume II. If, indeed, Jenny Randles buys into the >>>hoax hypothesis, then my previously expressed admiration for her >>>will take a severely negative turn. So far I haven't seen >>>anything even close to meaningful evidence of a hoax. >>>Any case that poses a threat to the fragile belief system of the >>pelicanist is sooner or later said to be a hoax, whether actual >>evidence warrants that conclusion or not. It's as predictable as >>a cuckoo clock. Nothing new here. >>Any case that poses a threat to the fragile belief system of the >>pelicanist is sooner or later said to be a hoax, whether actual >>evidence warrants that conclusion or not. It's as predictable as >>a cuckoo clock. Nothing new here. >Jerry, I'm surprised that you think Jenny Randles is a >Pelicanist. It's clear that the leading figures in American >ufology now interpret _any_ questioning of the classic UFO cases >as terminal Pelicanism. How sad. Huh? Where did I say Jenny Randles is a pelicanist? I believe the answer is nowhere. Anybody else who read what I actually said could have easily figured out that I was referring to the French debunker who made the charge. I didn't even say the charge was false (though I suspect it is); all I said was that warranted or not, hoax charges against seemingly puzzling, otherwise-unexplained UFO cases are absolutely predictable. It's clear, I guess, that the leading figures in British ufology now interpret _any_ questioning of pelicanist interpretations of UFO cases as unacceptable heresy. How sad. Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 25 Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Houran From: Jim Houran <JHouran@siumed.edu> Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 09:39:53 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 13:05:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Houran >From: Neil Morris <neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 14:57:47 +0000 >Subject: Re: Validating The Ramey Memo Hi, Neil: Thanks for your comments. Actually, I have considered the technical issues at length with various experts, so I feel comfortable with my approach. I also do not think the technical issues are such that we cannot overcome them to a reasonable degree. I have spent much time before and after the publication of the JSE paper researching the types of issues you raised and some you do not. I certainly am no expert in photoanalysis, which is why I consulted with those who are. Curiously, various experts sometimes give differing points of view on what should be done and how that should proceed, so I am not surprised that there is strong disagreement among some of the interested parties on this List. The positive aspect here is that researchers within ufology are largely discussing methodological and theoretical considerations in a constructive manner. To my way of thinking, the Ramey Memo is a rare and valuable area of research because it is a clear empirical issue. I believe other interested parties feel the same way. Yet, progress in resolving the questions surrounding the document has arguably just begun. Jim
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 25 Re: Scientists Show How To Make A UFO - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 14:04:43 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 14:37:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Scientists Show How To Make A UFO - Ledger >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >To: <- UFO UpDates Subscribers -> >Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 12:33:21 -0500 >Subject: Scientists Show How To Make A UFO >Source: MSNBC.com >http://www.msnbc.com/news/863997.asp?0cv=CB20&cp1=1#BODY >THE HOW-TO GUIDE >http://www.ufomag.co.uk/euroseti.htm <snip> >Thanks to GT McCoy for the lead - he wrote: >Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 07:04:21 -0800 >Hello, Listerions, > >"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!" >http://www.msnbc.com/news/863997.asp?0cv=CB20 >NASA Explians it all. Yes. Right. Good one GT. And I found those logs I was looking for.[All safely bookmarked] Well, now it seems we are getting somewhere. At least Brekke gets off his duff and partially explains - not to mention the obvious - the damn things as opposed to NASA going into their snit mode when someone asks questions. Brekke couldn't help but throw in an insult - the "fantasies" comment and how amused they are. In other words just leave us alone and let us be our brilliant selves. This bears further scrutiny dispite Brekke's condencending attitude. Check LASCO's own logs for furher details. There is stuff there that seems to puzzle them too. Out of the mouths of babes.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 26 Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Rudiak From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 15:21:59 -0800 Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 10:23:32 -0500 Subject: Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Rudiak >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 23:14:39 +0000 >Subject: Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? >>From: Andrew Dabrowski <dabrowsa@indiana.edu> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 13:20:56 -0500 >>Subject: Trans en Provence A Hoax? >The possibility that the Trans en Provence CE-2 was a hoax was >mentioned here recently. >>Jenny Randles in 'The UFOs that Never Were' also endorses the >>hoax theory. This is a page with an article by Eric Maillot. >>http://www.zetetique.ldh.org/tep.html >>Reactions? >I don't read French, but have addressed these issues in The UFO >Evidence, Volume II. If, indeed, Jenny Randles buys into the >hoax hypothesis, then my previously expressed admiration for her >will take a severely negative turn. So far I haven't seen >anything even close to meaningful evidence of a hoax. I recall reading "substantial differences" in interpretation of Trans en Provence by various researchers. Dick Hall's analysis has never been subjected to an "objective peer review" to test whether his interpretation is any better than anybody else's. Without such a review, one interpretation is just as good as another. Dick Hall, however, "seems to doubt the concept somewhat by casting aspersions on anyone who even may disagree with him." We are certainly all indebted to all the hard work Dick Hall has put into this, but now it's time to turn analysis over to the real experts so it can be done properly. "Obviously he is convinced that he is right." However, he needs to "lighten up" if he thinks he is the only one qualified to do this type of analysis. If Dick Hall wishes to argue that Trans en Provence was not a hoax, the "burden of proof" is definitely upon him. What does he "hope to accomplish by insisting that the point has been proven, when it hasn't to anyone's satisfaction than his own apparently." "I would be absolutely delighted" if he "could prove it beyond a reasonable doubt." But surely he can't expect anyone to read all those "esoteric" and "convoluted arguments" in The UFO Evidence 2! Who has the time? Besides, you have to be rich to afford it. Instead he should submit his arguments to a peer reviewed journal and make sure that they are "readily available" to all. The above is a pretty accurate paraphrasing of the "tone" Dick Hall has adopted towards me in his recent posts on the thread "Validating the Ramey Memo." Straight out of the Debunking 101 manual as far as I'm concerned. You might say that "my previously expressed admiration" for him has taken a "severely negative turn" recently. His demand for peer review of my work, saying the "burden of proof" was on me, but refusing in the same breath to even look my work, claiming he didn't have the time, absolutely flabbergasted me (not to mention a few others who e-mailed me). How is one supposed to "prove" one's case when the priests refuse to look through the telescope? How can the author of "The UFO Evidence" be such a hypocrite? Have the pod people taken over the real Dick Hall? I think I hear Bob Young giggling out there over the irony of it all. David Rudiak
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 26 Cumbria Flying Saucers Probed From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 05:52:55 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 10:24:50 -0500 Subject: Cumbria Flying Saucers Probed Source: North West Evening Mail, Barrow in Furness, Cumbria, UK - January 25, 2003, http://www.nwemail.co.uk/A2gi06.HTM Stig *** CUMBRIA FLYING SAUCERS PROBED ** A UFO investigation team is being set up for the Lake District. Jade Ashcroft, 28, and Garry Humphrey, 35, are setting up an investigation agency in Carlisle to search for the truth about alien sightings in Cumbria. Miss Ashcroft is a singer/songwriter, from Infirmary Street, Carlisle. She is also a field investigator for the US-based Mutual UFO network. The pair plan to collect information on sightings in the county and document data and make short films on unusual phenomena. They already know of some sightings in the Lake District and they have had a few weird experiences of their own. The most frightening was at Ennerdale, said Miss Ashcroft, who says she has been interested in UFOs for as long as she can remember. She said: "We were walking down the hill from the little stone circle at Swinside. "It was a cloudy night. "Then to the right, there was a bright flash - not like lightning. "Then there was another flash. "Then there was an intermittent flashing - a kind of electricity - then it moved about 180 degrees. "It wasn't a pattern, it was random. "It was so quiet up there. "It was deathly quiet. "It was like there was something above the cloud but we could only see it from under the cloud." The couple have also seen dancing lights in the Lakes but they say this is quite common. They are interested in hearing from anyone who has had a sighting of any kind. Miss Ashcroft said: "The scope is as big as it wants to be. "There's a lot of activity in Cumbria. "A lot of UFOs hover over bodies of water and nuclear power stations. "What we are trying to do is collect data and signs. We want to interview people first and then we have to send the information to Mufon. "We want people to talk to us about the shapes and the colours and the speed changes, how they know it wasn't a conventional aircraft and whether there was any unnatural activity. "Group sightings are important because they are a lot more credible. "I'm not sure what happens to people who think they are abducted but I know a lot of people believe things happen to them that they can't explain. "We want to help them understand what has happened to them. "We want to find out the truth." =F2 Anyone who has had a sighting or is interested in sky watching can email the couple at thesearchforthetruth [?] [The question mark is mine - Stig.]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 26 'UFO' In Milford CT SWAT Test From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 06:22:36 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 10:30:53 -0500 Subject: 'UFO' In Milford CT SWAT Test Source: Connecticut Post http://www.connpost.com/Stories/0,1413,96%257E3750%257E1132980,00.html Stig *** Article Last Updated: Friday, January 24, 2003 - 3:40:28 AM MST No UFO in Milford, just SWAT test Odd lights, sounds part of public safety drill by special cop unit By GREG SHULAS ** MILFORD - So why were unusual lights reported in the sky above Eisenhower Park Wednesday night? And what was with the humming sound that could be heard throughout the air? "I thought it was strange," said North Street resident Bernice Casey, one of many area residents who witnessed the activity. "We kept looking at it but we did not know what it was." But police said the lights and sounds were nothing out of a science fiction movie. Police Sgt. Pat Tierney said Thursday the activity was a public safety drill that Milford's SWAT unit held in conjunction with State Police Troop I, which operated the helicopter. Around 7:30 p.m. Wednesday, anyone driving by Eisenhower Park could see the helicopter flying around the recreation grounds. Several police cruisers and white vans were visible in the parking lot. The park is in a quiet neighborhood near Milford's border with affluent Orange, a place not normally associated with police activity. "I heard the helicopter but I did not see the lights," said Jean Bonyai, of North Street in Milford. It is common to hear helicopters in her neighborhood, but the sound generated by the aircraft Wednesday was louder than normal, she said. "This was more than usual," she said. However, some residents said they did not notice anything strange. "Nothing. Nothing," said one North Street man when asked if he saw the drill. While the fire department notifies the media when it tests its emergency siren system, the police typically don't release information about drills. When asked if the police will alert the public about future drills, Tierney deferred comment to the SWAT unit supervisor, who was unavailable for comment Thursday. Greg Shulas, who covers Milford, can be reached at 878-2130. ** C 1999-2003 MediaNews Group, Inc. All rights to republication are reserved. Connecticut Post incorporates The Bridgeport Post, The Telegram and The Valley Sentinel
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 26 Collection For SOS-OVNI Archive Files From: Anders Liljegren <anders.liljegren@telia.com> Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 12:29:40 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 22:34:10 -0500 Subject: Collection For SOS-OVNI Archive Files Dear Colleagues, We hate to bother you with something as unimportant [?] in this great world of enigmas as 'money' may seem to be.... As some of you may know the French SOS-OVNI files, owned by Mr. Perry Petrakis, have been offered for sale. Clas Svahn and I have had extensive, almost daily email discussions with Perry Petrakis as well as with Jacques Scornaux of SCEAU, who would be our proposed French partner in a possible deal. At present we have about 1.900 Euros in the collection, plus possibly 1.000 or 1.500 coming from the SCEAU membership. We have opened a webpage: www.afu.info/french.htm with details, and a link to PayPal for international donors who would like to contribue directly to AFU. Contributions are coming in every day. Details on the collection campaign, and results, will be published on this web page. AFU's interest is mainly in the books & magazine (printed media) collections of SOS-OVNI, and the picture library, where we feel we could offer those parts of the collection a truely good home for the future. SCEAU already has fairly extensive and complete collections of French books & magazines in its three archives while AFU only has about 120 titles in French. We are sadly missing some of the very 'classic' French titles. A detailed analysis of the book list provided us by Petrakis shows that AFU's collection would gain about new 200 titles, mainly in French. This would make an excellent addition to our reference library. AFU has about 3.500 different titles/editions of UFO & fortean-related literature from around the world, but there is an unfortunate slant towards the Anglo-American and Scandinavian cultures. The SOS-OVNI magazine collection would - probably in the same way - complete AFU's present collection, recently inventoried - see: www.afu.info/mags.htm. SCEAU, on the other hand, would be able to make use of, and save for posterity, the Anglo-American book and magazine titles, which are mostly already in AFU's files. Some very common book titles & magazines - a minor part of the book list we've analyzed - could possibly later be sold on the open market to compensate for costs that the project would draw (such as transports) without any loss for our archives. AFU and UFO-Sweden is presently building a digital picture library where thumb-nail versions would become available on the internet and offered (digitally) for sale and trade. This is already underway with UFO-Sweden's editor Hakan Ekstrand working part-time on the project. That's where our interest in the pictures & illustrations comes in. AFU has just recently taken care of a major Norwegian organizational archive - see: www.afu.info/orgfilesno.htm I feel that a good knowledge of the language used in documents of such an archive is absolutely fundamental. This is why we are absolutely sure that SCEAU would provide a much, much better environment for the French organizational and report (case) files than AFU ever could. SCEAU also has the necessary knowledge about the inner workings of French ufology and French UFO cases to provide in order not to breach people's personal integrity. As we understand it, a small part of the SOS-OVNI files, contains material of that kind. The files are of recent date and should therefore be handled with care. The deal would require that we send a large car or van from Sweden to France to fetch AFU's parts of the collection. On the downward leg we could load the same car with a fairly large collection of mainly Anglo-American and Scandinavian UFO magazines from AFU's collection of surplus copies. This would be a donation to SCEAU and also a way of safeguarding our own archives with spare copies at an entirely different place in Europe. In the same way of thinking, AFU would become sort of a fourth repository for French UFO literature. As people in business and industry often say, "I see 'great synergy effects' in this proposed deal". Money, of course, is the big, big problem, as always... Even if AFU and SCEAU combine forces we are at present very, very far from the 15.000 or 20.000 Euros required by Mr. Petrakis to solve his economic dilemma with the printers of his journal Ph=E9nom=E8na. We hope, however, that we can finally land a deal where we provide a substantial help with his debts. If this is not satisfactory for Mr Petrakis he will, of course, refuse the proposal. The money contributed to AFU (and SCEAU) would then be saved for future deal(s) of similar nature, or (if required by the donor) refunded. In our experience, collections of a similar nature appear with some regularity. It is not our practice to pay large sums for unique collections (simply because we are not wealthy people) but sometimes an expense fund would make it easier to pay for transport and go half-way towards compensation for what a collector (or the heirs of a deceased collector) would get from a second-hand book shop. We have made international appeals for contributions but without some wealthy millionaire entering the scene we are still very far from what is required by Petrakis. We are aiming for the stars and maybe we will reach the sky or just the clouds... Anders Liljegren & Clas Svahn Archives for UFO Research (AFU) P O Box 11027 S-600 11 Norrkoping Sweden afu@ufo.se =A8www.afu.info
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 26 Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Bourdais From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr> Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 18:24:18 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 22:40:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Bourdais >From: John Harney <magonia@harneyj.freeserve.co.uk> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 21:39:32 -0000 >Subject: Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 23:14:39 +0000 >>Subject: Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? >>>From: Andrew Dabrowski <dabrowsa@indiana.edu> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 13:20:56 -0500 >>>Subject: Trans en Provence A Hoax? <snip> >Anyway, there's a less detailed article (in English) in Hilary >Evans and Dennis Stacy (eds), "UFOs 1947-1997", John Brown >Publishing London, 1997, by Eric Maillot and Jacques Scornaux, >titled "Trans-en-Provence: When Science and Belief Go Hand in >Hand". (I don't know if there was an American edition of this >book.) >Maillot and Scornaux have numerous criticisms of the >investigations carried out by GEPAN (the official French UFO >investigators) and they point out various inconsistencies in the >witness's testimony, as well as the fact that he kept changing >his story, as well as the obvious fact that there were no other >witnesses. The arguments of arch-skeptics Maillot and Scornaux are well known in France for having been re-hashed over many years. Their "motives" (what do you mean by "ulterior") are well known. Not one good UFO study must remained unpunished! Recently, Maillot proposed to me to debate about the Arnold sightings : I said no thanks! I am not even sure he reads English properly. The ground trace at Trans-en-Provence was recorded rapidly, first by the Gendarmes, who took plant specimens according to rules already set for such cases, in previous agreements with CNES. The CNES team came (at the time it was not yet a one man operation). The plants were studied by Professor Bounias in a university lab. He did an excellent and meticulous job of analysis of the plants He found interesting anomalies. Two official reports have been published - at least one in English, by the Journal of Scientific Exploration. I think that Marc Cashman also published a report on his Web site. Do I need to re-tell the whole story, again? Yes, some rather ambiguous words have been reported from the witness, who was of Italian origin and not always of clear elocution. They were cited by those skeptics who visited him - not very reliable anyway. JJ Velasco told me that they had dinner with him, with a lot of wine..... So what? BTW, I remember that an Italian team came to visit him, in order to asses his credibility, but I have not heard their conclusions. Could our Italian friends, perhaps reading, tell us us about it ? Gildas Bourdais
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 26 Re: NASA & UFOs? - Mancusi From: Bruno Mancusi <swissufo@swissufo.ch> Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 19:43:00 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 22:44:56 -0500 Subject: Re: NASA & UFOs? - Mancusi >From: Thiago Luiz Ticchetti <thiagolt@opengate.com.br> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 15:13:32 -0300 >Subject: NASA & UFOs? >Hello list >I am writing a book about astronauts, NASA and UFOs and I >need your help. Somebody have information about that? >Books with that subject? Articles or texts? Hi Thiago, Excuse me for the delay. I saw flying saucers at Kennedy Space Center (Florida)! It was in February 1996. The Lausanne newspaper '24 Heures' organized a trip to see the shuttle lift-off because there was a Swiss astronaut, Claude Nicollier, aboard. The departure was on time, 22 February 1996 at 3:18 p.m. (mission STS-75). The day after, we visited the KSC and I saw three beautiful flying saucers in... the kindergarten! Yes, it's the only place at NASA were we can see UFOs. They were made of Lego and in a display cabinet. I took some slides of them. There was an explanation text, which I copied exactly: [begin] UFOs Unidentified Flying Objects have been reported for many centuries in widely separated parts of the world. No two sightings are exactly the same. They inspire fear, wonder and curiosity. What are they? Where do they come from? Are there forms of life in the endless reaches of space trying to make contact, or are they all in the imagination? [end] A very neutral statement! Regards, Bruno
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 26 Possible 1989 Abduction? From: Albert Rosales <Garuda79@aol.com> Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 14:50:11 EST Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 22:53:02 -0500 Subject: Possible 1989 Abduction? Unusual report from South Florida Location. West Dade County, Florida Date: Summer 1989 Time: various Rene Revilla had bought a piece of property very close to the East Everglades and had encountered differed type of phenomena in the area. Twice during the course of the summer a tall stranger who asked him different questions as to his purposes in the area visited him. The strange was described as a Nordic type man, very strong and tall, with immaculate features, and always wearing a gray suit and tie. He seemed to have some type of accent that the witness could not place. The two times he arrived at the ranch the witness did not see the mode of transportation, he was apparently gone by the time the witness went out the door to see him off. HC addition # 2333 Source: Personal Investigation Type: E
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 26 Re: EuroSETI? Whats That? - McGonagle From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk> Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 20:13:24 -0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 22:55:14 -0500 Subject: Re: EuroSETI? Whats That? - McGonagle >From: Werner Walter <cenap@ADDCOM.DE> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 00:47:36 +0100 >Subject: EuroSETI? Whats That? >Hello all, >I=B4m wondering about the EuroSETI-group in England. Has anyone >heard of Mike Murray before and EuroSETI? Is EuroSETI on >the Web? >Greetings >WW Hello, Werner/List, Chris Whitlock from Ufology-UK has been digging into EuroSETI and managed to talk briefly with Mike Murray who seems to be the public interface. Apparently, it is a group of businessmen who have each invested a considerable amount of money (4 figures each) in order to investigate the UFO phenomena and they have associate members in France, Chile, Germany, Canada and Japan. Chris was also told that EuroSETI intend to have a web presence in the near future, details will be published in the UK UFO Magazine. Unfortunately this is all that is known at the moment, but we hope to find out more about the group shortly. I hope that is of use, Regards, Joe
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 26 Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Rudiak From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 18:25:08 -0800 Fwd Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 22:59:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Rudiak >From: Jim Houran <JHouran@siumed.edu >Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 12:05:01 -0600 >Fwd Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 17:29:15 -0500 >Subject: Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Houran >>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 12:22:45 -0800 >>Subject: Validating The Ramey Memo >Hi List, >I appreciate the comments and welcome criticisms. Let me clarify >some of my earlier statements re: methodology. I won't clarify >them all, because I refer readers to my original JSE article for >counter arguments to most of the proposals made by Rudiak. >First, when I likened the problem of the Ramey Memo to the >problems associated with deciphering the Dead Sea Scrolls, the >analogy concerns the analytical methods used in enhancing the >text, not interpreting the text. Naturally, one needs be >familiar with the period of history and language in question to >decipher and/or reconstruct documents such as the Dead Sea >Scrolls (i.e, to recognize the letters on the scrolls). So doesn't one likewise need to be familiar with the historical period and the events to decipher/reconstruct a similar document like the Ramey memo? >Fortunately, the Ramey memo is not ancient text so theoretically >anyone who knows English should be able to recognize/read the >letters/sentences/phrases if they are clear/legible. If the Dead Sea Scrolls were intact with the letters clearly legible, anyone familiar with ancient Semitic languages would be able to read the text. The reason one needs scholars is because the scrolls are not intact and not everything is clearly legible, even with computer enhancement. The expertise and background knowledge of the scholars enables them to fill in the gaps in the missing portions and make reasonable deductions about the illegible or barely legible portions. The fact that the Ramey memo is not ancient text is hardly the point. The real point is the need for background knowledge and context to help fill in the invisible or difficult to read portions. Anybody who knows English can apply general language context, i.e., proper spelling, grammar, syntax, and semantics. In short, the overall reconstruction should be grammatical and make sense. However, making reasonable deductions about the specifics requires more than just general language familiarity. It requires background knowledge of the Roswell case and the historical context. Who were the participants? Who was in the chain of command and likely to be involved? What military abbreviations and acronyms might appear in such a telegram? What was the date? From where was the telegram sent or received? What were the circumstances under which the photo was taken? At about what time was it taken? What was happening elsewhere when it was taken? What were the newspapers reporting? What have witnesses said was happening? What were the events that led up to this photos? What did the military do afterwards as follow-up to these photos? What are the various explanations of what happened? These are all important clues as to what might be discussed in this telegram at the specific time by the likely or possible people involved. However, you propose removing all this context in your next study based on your contention that readers would be overwhelmingly biased by knowing the context of the message and this would make any readings "unreliable." Furthermore you claim that this is "clearly" shown by your first study with Kevin Randle. As it turns out, after analyzing your first study, both these statements are not supported by your own published data and in fact are contradicted by it. There is no clear "priming" effect from context and correct context clearly increases the reliability of readings instead of the other way around. Details are below. >What I feel is needed is state-of-the-art enhancement of the document >by analysts I certainly have no objections to that, though there is a limit to what can be done. Ultimately computers don't read messages, people do. >who are not primed to interpret ambiguous letters >according to their preconceived notions. Your data does not show this alleged huge "priming" effect caused by the "preconceived notions." It seems to be mostly a figment of your own "preconceived notions." If we were to extend your logic to reading the Dead Sea scrolls, we should likewise remove Christian, Jewish, Muslim, etc. scholars from interpreting the scrolls, since deeply held religious beliefs might color their interpretation of the scrolls. We should remove terrorism experts from interpreting a noisy cell-phone intercept since their political beliefs and previous knowledge might cause them to hear only what they want to hear. While we're at it, let's get rid of all experts entirely from interpreting controversial, ambiguous data, such as whether there are bacteria in Martian meteorites, since experts often divide into fractious camps holding all sorts of biases and "preconceived notions." However, the realistic, practical approach is to use knowledgeable human beings, biases and all, to interpret such data, and then try to reach some sort of consensus after everybody has presented their case and then thrashed out their differences. On the Ramey memo, e.g., there is already a consensus amongst various people on such key parts as "weather balloons", "the victims of the wreck", and "the 'disc'/'disk'" despite many differences elsewhere. Unfortunately these important similarities are not part of your main text discussion at all, which instead dwells on the differences. Maybe you should explain why that happened if you are as neutral as you maintain you are. >In our JSE study, >subjects were not given any time limit to decipher the text, and >this important point was not mentioned by Rudiak. The only statistic provided by you in your paper was the average time spent by your subjects in the three experimental conditions: correct context, misleading context, and no context. People who knew the Roswell context spent an average of 20 minutes; those on misleading context 16 minutes; those with no context 14 minutes. These averages suggest this was a poorly motivated group of people overall and a totally inadequate period of time was spent on average trying to read the message. In fact, your own paper says exactly the same thing as me: "The Ramey memo is very difficult to read even under the best conditions... Therefore, it is not surprising that our participants who examined the document relatively briefly and without great motivation were unable to decipher many words." Saying that there was no time limit does not change this nor does it give us the proper information needed to judge how diligently the groups as a whole worked on this. One highly motivated person can skew the average and conceal that most had little motivation. E.g., if one person spent 3 hours, while 9 others in his group spent only 2 minutes each, that works out to the 20 minutes average for the 10 altogether. In this example, 90% basically spent no time at all, but the average alone doesn't tell you this. Missing were other important statistical indicators of group diligence, such as ranges of time spent, standard deviation of time, median time, etc. I strongly suspect that with the complete set of statistical data, we would discover that a majority of subjects spent less than 5-10 minutes total, even in the most motivated group given the correct context. I also suspect that the time differences between the group with the correct context versus the two with the incorrect context or no context also has a high degree of statistical significance. Contrary to your contention that knowing the correct context is "confounding", the actual statistics probably indicate that the misleading context or absent context that was confounding and frustrating the subjects, particularly the group given no information at all. >some subjects took less time than others does not mean that we >imposed some limit. This still misses the point. The averages alone indicate very little time was typically spent by the subjects, as you yourself note in your own paper. Most obviously had little motivation to begin with, or quickly grew frustrated and quit after making little headway. Being misled from the beginning or being told nothing at all certainly doesn't help, and this is clearly reflected in the lower time averages of these groups vs. the group with the correct context. >As suspected by Rudiak and noted by us in >the article, the motivation of the subjects (likely influenced >by the context of the task) probably played a major role here. >Of course, experimentally blind analysts do not necessarily need >a 'context' in order to keep them motivated on the task (i.e., >not frustrated), It certainly is a big help. It was obviously an important factor in your first study, particularly with the group told nothing who gave up significantly before the group with the correct context. Again as you yourself note in your discussion: "A UFO story of a crash and a cover-up is inherently intriguing.... and so our participants may have worked harder at deciphering the text than in the other two conditions. Likewise, ... those in the Atomic Bomb Condition deciphered more words than ...those in the Blind Condition... an atomic bomb accident is certainly more interesting than a 'photograph of an old document.' Now you are arguing that "experimentally blind analysts do not necessarily need a 'context' in order to keep them motivated on the task"? >they simply need time and money (and I am sure >that many already have curiosity for trying to solve problems). Ah yes, the magic motivator "money." But will this translate into working on this for many hours over an extended period of time? What happens when the money gives out, e.g.? Are people going to continue to work at this? How many hours of work are you budgeting for? >I know, I have actually asked several labs about what would keep >them motivated. How much time is an answer no one can answer. It >depends on several factors, as Rudiak and any experienced >researcher knows. If the intent is to try to read the whole thing, then any time less than 50 to 100 hours is a sham effort. That would cost a lot of money. If the intent is to just to try to confirm a more limited part of the message, what I call the two critical phrases area of the memo which is clearer than many of the other parts, then considerably less time might do. What exactly are you asking these analysts to do? A very limited time seems like the best you will be able to do with limited funding. Therefore the results will also be limited. Maybe the technicians can focus on critical areas of the memo, but without being able to work on more of the message and check readings for grammatical and semantic self-consistency with surrounding areas. "THE VICTIMS OF THE MAJOR" (a reading of a few people) may make sense in isolation, but less so in the more complete semantic context of "THE VICTIMS OF THE MAJOR YOU FORWARDED TO .... FORT WORTH..." and no sense at all in the complete historical context. >As I write this, I see that I already addressed the second >methodological point: do analysts need a context or not to see >the letters? Yes, they only need to know the English alphabet in >order to recognize reliably the letters. Going letter by letter without taking into account spelling, grammar, syntax, meaning, and finally the context in which this all happened is a hopeless way to go about reading this, like trying to follow a noisy conversation phoneme by phoneme instead of listening to the overall conversation and applying other cues, such as known subject matter, voice intonation, body language, etc. As it turns out, your own study clearly demonstrated that the accuracy of the Roswell group was greatly enhanced on words even you agree are there by them knowing the correct context compared to the mislead atomic bomb group. Again this fact is buried in your numbers and never discussed by you and Randle in your paper. It completely contradicts your contention that correct context decreases reliability by biasing the readers. >That assumes that >computer enhancement by independent and unbiased labs can render >the text significantly more legible for subsequent reading by >unbiased individuals. The implication here is people who have tried to read the memo so far are all "biased," i.e. is our readings are based purely on what we want to see there. This is your own bias, and you repeat it in various ways. If people were really this biased, then why didn't anybody's readings turn up the words "aliens" or "creatures" or "spaceships", something clearly indicating something other worldly or extremely unusual? Instead people read far more neutral words like "victims" and "wreck" there, which by themselves, in the absence of other context, do not define the exact nature of what was found. >Rudiak and others may disagree, but in my >opinion, only text that can be read under these conditions is reliable. No, only when you take the full context into account, both linguistic and historical, is the reading likely to be reliable. Ask a linguist how people really follow human conversation or read bad handwriting. These tasks are full of incredible ambiguity and the way we deal with it is _not_ going letter by letter but applying various forms of context to the whole. Going strictly letter by letter is a sure recipe for disaster and will produce mostly meaningless gibberish. Again, I emphasize that your own study completely contradicts your contention that reliability decreases with context. You and Randle found exactly the opposite -- the Roswell group were far and away the best at picking out what you call the "common words" that people see in all situations and even you admit are likely there. Correct context greatly increased reliability, not decreased it. That's overwhelmingly obvious from your published numbers, yet you and Randle never discuss it. Why not? >"Blind procedures" are the standard in objective, >empirical research where confounding variables of belief and >expectation can influence the results. Your first study did _not_ demonstrate that "belief and expectation" had any significant effect on the readings (more below). In fact, your study demonstrated that knowing the correct context greatly improved the reading of the Roswell group compared to the other groups. Therefore, there seems to be no compelling reason to keep analysts ignorant of the true context. I might add that "belief and expectation" can also extend to experimenters. A whole experimental protocol can be built up around those "beliefs and expectations" that influence the ultimate results of the experiment. Your whole study is being set up with the "belief and expectation" that it is impossible to get reliable readings because of people's "beliefs and expectations," even though your first study showed no such thing. Again your bad reasoning and bias are showing. I note you also refer to "belief and expectation" as "confounding", the same adjective you previously applied to context. This I consider to be yet another indication of your personal bias, the way you subtly equate context to "belief" and "expectation." >Yes, I maintain that >telling people anything about the supposed content of the >document invalidates any design that purports to be >unbiased/objective in deciding whether the Ramey memo can be >deciphered at all or not. I believe my study with Randle shows >that clearly. This is one of your own beliefs and expectations and not really supported by your first study. Time to get down to specifics. Basically your study showed the following: "If you present a group of people with the difficult word problem of reading a noisy photographed message and mislead or tell some of them nothing about it while tell others the correct context, and if this same group typically spends little time on the task, then _a few_ of the words by _a few_ of the people might _initially_ be influenced by the context given to them." Unfortunately you have translated this into the sweeping and simplistic generalization that because a few people are coming up with a few different words in the different situations, people are being hopelessly biased or "primed" by the context and this irreversibly taints their reading or makes them unreliable. One very big problem with this hypothesis is that you present no real data to support it. A few anecdotal examples are presented, but no numbers. E.g., you say the group told that the message is about atomic testing see "exclusive" words like "flash" or "atomic." How many people are we talking about here? One, two, twenty? As you note in your JSE paper, a referee raised a similar point: "One referee requested we list how many participants in each condition deciphered each word. We contacted our primary research assistant for the numbers... We unfortunately learned that the assistant disposed of his actual score sheets.... As a result, we only have detailed data on the deciphered words common across the three suggestion conditions." ***This is an astonishing admission, namely you and Randle don't have the numerical data to support your alleged "priming" hypothesis.*** Despite this, you claim your nonexistent data "clearly" shows that people were biased by the context. Who's really showing the bias here -- the subjects or the experimenters trying to put their own spin on the experiment? Here's another good indication that the alleged "priming" of subjects was probably more imaginary than real based on numbers that you do provide in your JSE paper. One detail is that both the Roswell group and the misled atomic testing group both averaged fewer than 5 words read per subject with a very low standard deviation of only a quarter of a word. These small numbers alone suggest there wasn't a lot of wild-eyed guessing going on based on the context. The Roswell group in particular shows numbers indicating almost no "primed" guessing at all. Using the 4.6 word average and 59 subjects, 271 words total were read by subjects. Then when you go to your Table 3 and run the numbers on the "common words", i.e. words seen by all groups and by all those "biased" Roswell people who have read the Ramey memo, like "Fort Worth, Tex.", "weather balloons", "story" and "land", it turns out the common words, that even you admit are likely there, account for 196 of the 271 words read by the Roswell group, or 72% of the total words. That leaves just 75 words spread over 59 people, or a little more than one word per person which you don't label as being common words. Your paper mentions only four such words, which you call words that are "exclusive" to the context, namely "remains", "fundamental", "crash", and "UFO". What about the other 70 or so words? I suspect the vast majority of these are the simpler small words that are relatively easy to pick out, such as "at", "the", "or", "and", etc. Thus out of 271 words, it seems only a relative handful spread over 59 subjects are deemed by you as "primed" by the Roswell crash context. While its obvious that the two words "crash" and "ufo" might be considered as influenced by the context, what about those other two words "remains" and "fundamental". Why would a Roswell context specifically suggest such words? They sound very context neutral. (Another point is that nobody with any knowledge of the period would have ever considered "ufo", a term that didn't exist in 1947. This is yet another example of where proper knowledge of the subject matter would obviously improve reliability of the readings rather than decrease it.) In the end, you are left with 72% of the words that even you agree are probably there and not "primed" by the Roswell context and maybe as few as 2 words out of 271, or less than 1% of all words, that might have been "primed" by the Roswell context. Maybe the percentage is a little more if more than one person saw "crash", e.g. But the total of the so-called "primed" words seems to be a very tiny percentage of the words and readers overall. Where's that huge priming effect you claim exists? The "atomic bomb" group also shows numbers that belie another of your conclusions. Here I calculate 278 words read by all 58 subjects, of which 78 or only 28% belong to the "common word" groups, a far lower percentage than the Roswell group in which these words accounted for 72% of all words. This must have a statistical significance of a very high order. Yet according to your hypothesis, these clearer, less ambiguous, and therefore "unprimed" words should be seen equally often across both context conditions. But that clearly is not the case. Instead the Roswell group with the correct context is obviously being much more reliable in their reading of these words than the group given the misleading context. Your own data clearly demonstrates what I have been claiming all along. Instead of correct context decreasing reliability of the readings, as you contend, it is actually greatly increasing the reliability of the readings by providing valuable additional information. E.g., knowing that a big part of the Roswell case involves weather balloons no doubt aids the Roswell readers in picking out "weather balloons" from the text. According to your numbers, 20 people managed to do this, vs. only 5 for the atomic bomb group and 2 for the context-free group. When you look at the specifics of the atom bomb group, only 6 words are listed as "exclusive" to the context. These are "glasses", "morning", "flash", "atomic", "laboratory", and "meaning". Again 2 words, "morning" and "meaning" have no obvious direct context-dependent relation to atomic testing. In fact "meaning" was one of the consensus words from what you claim were the Roswell "biased" readers such as me, in the phrase "meaning of story." It could also be argued that "flash" and "atomic laboratory" are not necessarily context specific either. Tom Carey, e.g., also for a time thought he saw "atomic laboratory" in the message from his Roswell "biased" perspective. "Flash" could also easily be part of a standard Roswell biased scenario, as in the explosion of the craft or it flaming across the sky. However you slice it, there again seems to be no obvious significant "priming" effect in this group either, maybe _at most_ a few percent of all words. I again ask, where is your huge "priming" effect of which you make so much? It seems to be the slant that you and Randle have chosen to put on your results even though your data obviously doesn't support you at all. Finally I want to address one more point concerning your arguments about "priming." Absolutely no allowance in your experimental paradigm is made for the value of people experimenting with various initial guesses and then later changing their mind when the guesses don't pan out. Some guesses might very well be influenced by people's expectations of content. But that doesn't mean people are locked into them for eternity. Yet that seems to be your over-reaching conclusion from your experiment even though you have no data to support it. In your mind, people "primed" by context never reflect, never have second thoughts, never adapt, never change their mind. However, good puzzle solvers will be continually monitoring their results for consistency and constantly making changes. Bad initial guesses on a crossword get changed later on when inconsistencies with the cross-words develop. Dead Sea scroll readers change their minds on various sections the longer they read. Of course, the puzzle workers have to persist, become familiar with the puzzle, and fill it in sufficiently to notice the inconsistencies so that changes from initial impressions or guesses can be made. None of these conditions are met in your first study (nor is it clear they will be met in your next proposed one). Nonetheless, you jump to the completely unsupported conclusion that initial "priming" will inevitably determine the final result and make the results "unreliable." >Lastly, attempting to label me as a "skeptic" is misleading if >one is familiar with my peer-reviewed writings on the subject of >Roswell (and some people have misconceptions about what 'peer- >review really is). I am neutral on Roswell. Maybe you feel you are neutral on Roswell. But your grossly overblown and flawed claims about a "priming" effect in your first Ramey memo study does not fill me with confidence that you are really neutral. This is also endlessly reflected in your choice of words, such as "confounding context," "confounding belief and expectation," "unbiased individuals," "not primed to interpret ambiguous letters according to their preconceived notions," "purports to be unbiased/objective," "capacity for creativity." Over and over I see you trying to hammer home the point that anybody who knows of the context is necessarily "biased," not "objective," "primed," "creative" (i.e. just imagining things), and so on, and this is allegedly seriously distorts the readings. I again ask, who is really demonstrating the "bias" here? Is it the readers, or is it the experimenters trying very hard to create an impression of major reader bias where none seems to exist? >Furthermore, I feel >the field now relies too much on testimony re: Roswell-- >tetsimony that appears impossible to corroborate effectively. >This is why I appreciate the approach of Rudiak and others who >look to empirical issues and questions in the case. The Ramey >Memo is just such an issue. Rudiak is absolutely correct in >asserting that a probability analysis is needed (via computer or >by human subjects) should some of the text not be legible, e.g., >'unreadable' letters in otherwise full words. He is also correct >in asserting that a context is needed in order to do that >effectively. Right, so how do you propose doing that if your experiment is set up so that the analysts are working completely blind? Your own study demonstrated that correct context greatly enhanced the reading of what you call the "common words." Yet you want to remove the context on the completely unsupported assumption that any context hopelessly biases the readers and renders their readings "unreliable." >Pattern recognition (specifically for letters and >words) in humans is so effective because of our capacity for >creativity that stems from our semantic networks. Your words again betray your own personal biases. In particular your statement that humans are so effective because of "our capacity for creativity." I have a big problem with the word "creativity" since once again you are insinuating that people just make things up or imagine things. This is also reflected in your other research, particularly on paranormal phenomena, where you again conclude people just imagine they are having precognitive dreams or seeing ghosts. Likewise in your Ramey memo paper, you and Randle make statements like, "Those who have a specific agenda are seeing ... exactly what they wish to see." Further, you also deliberately play up the differences while ignoring the important agreements between groups, such as "the victims of the wreck", or "the 'disk'". Repeatedly your personal biases are showing even though you claim to be neutral. I view context completely differently from my own studies in linguistics, perceptual psychology (particularly in vision and speech recognition), and neural networks. Context is the stuff that enables us to make sense of ambiguous situations. You treat it as "confounding" noise, when it is really not noise but information relating to the signal. Neural nets (what our brains are made up of) can often reliably reconstruct the signal from a little bit of contextual information. A blind person might reliably deduce a dog was in the room from the smell of its breath, hearing it pant, or having his hand licked, or all of the above. The more contextual information, the more reliable the deduction. But the point is that it is frequently possible to arrive at highly reliable conclusions from incomplete information through application of context. EXAMPLE: Let's look at the alleged "DISC" word on the first line of the second paragraph. See: www.roswellproof.com/critical_phrases.html I think it is possible to say with extremely high reliability that this is a four-letter word enclosed in quotes with the center two letters being very well formed and obviously the letters "IS". So what is the rest of the word? Unfortunately, without applying further information there is no way to unambiguously decide. Is the word "disc", or is it "dish", "risk", "risc", "rise", "wise", "miss", "fist", etc.? The analysts could try to determine the most probable letters for the remaining two letters and go at it that way. But it is a completely valid, and probably more powerful approach, to apply the historical Roswell context, which you flippantly dismiss as being of no use at all. If you do apply such context, you know that this message was written only about 2 hours after Roswell base's "flying disc" press release went out over the wires. You would know that the terms "flying disk or disc" were brand new terms and that they were frequently enclosed in quotes in the newspapers. And you would know that Ramey at that very moment was trying to debunk the base's flying disc press release as a misidentified weather balloon and that he, his minions, and military PR people were all referring to it as a "disc/disk." From this contextual information alone, it is possible go deduce with a reliability close to 100% that the word is "disc" or "disc". This is not the result of "priming" or bias; this is the rational application of knowledge and a little common sense. >Our study showed that interpretation follows from context. Your study showed that _a tiny percentage_ of _initial_ interpretations by _some_ people (numbers unstated) may have been influenced by the context given. This does not mean that _all_ interpretations so "followed" (another loaded word indicating more of your bias) or that initial interpretations would be _final_ interpretations of people who worked for a long time, became very familiar with the puzzle, and had time to think over their interpretations. You are treating people like they are mindless automatons compelled forever to "follow" their initial impressions, instead of being able to apply higher cognitive functions to analyze and perhaps change their initial perceptions. >However, and >this is more to the point, we really do not know the context of >the message. Without that, we are simply dealing with >speculation and using one unknown to fill in the blanks of >another unknown. We don't know the specifics of the message, but it is complete nonsense to assert that we know nothing of the context or that the context is useless or application of it is nothing more than "speculation" based on complete unknowns. Once again your clear prejudices and lack of understanding are showing. Your lack of understanding also extends to your own data which clearly showed that correct Roswell context greatly enhanced the readings of the "common words." >Rudiak will argue that the memo obviously relates in some way to >Roswell. I would agree to a limited extent. The memo probably >has something to do with the events surrounding the Roswell case >but in the broadest sense. That is not really helpful. I'm sorry, but this statement once again indicates just how poorly you grasp the whole situation. Of course knowing it's about Roswell is helpful. It's enormously helpful because it brings to play the background information known about Roswell -- the circumstances around the telegram, the participants, the chain of command, etc. It also places important constraints on what the message might contain given the timing and surrounding circumstances. It sure isn't Gen. Ramey's grocery list or vacation plans. We can apply this background knowledge to make highly reliable decisions on various words, such as in my "disc" example above. >I firmly >beieve the text "weather balloons is on the memo" because our >empirical studies suggest subjects see this regardless of the >context they are given (more evidence that one need not have a >context in order to see words if they are truly legible). Your empirical studies also demonstrated that the subjects with the proper context saw "weather balloons" 4 times more than the subjects with the misleading context, and 10 times more than the subjects with no context. These numbers should be telling you something, namely that proper context greatly enhanced the reading of words that even you concede are there. Thus there was obviously some difficulty in reading even these words, but application of the information provided by proper context was obviously enormously helpful in resolving the ambiguity. You choose to call this "bias". I call it "smart reading." >But the topic of weather balloons alone does not put in proper >perspective what the text states about weather balloons. No, it doesn't tell us the precise context in which "weather balloons" is being used here, but it does tell us the message in general is about Roswell in some way, and that alone is extremely important. Your own highly skeptical co-author, Kevin Randle, was originally questioning (along with other people like Philip Klass) whether the message even had anything to do with Roswell. I think we've finally laid that one to rest at least (even though you and Randle repeat this completely spurious argument in your JSE paper, yet another indication of where you are really coming from). In addition, we know a great deal from our background knowledge of the Roswell case about what context "weather balloons" would probably be used in. It could be about what was found (the present-day skeptical explanation), or it could be about the information was feeding the press at exactly that moment (historical fact), or it could relate to the press release they were about to issue that the object was a weather balloon (known historical fact), or it could be about the weather balloon demonstrations they added in succeeding days to debunk Roswell and the flying disks (another historical fact), or it could be about all these things or some of them. This is enormously useful information to an analyst in trying to reconstruct the words that aren't so clear by making reasonable "what-if" guesses about content and then seeing how far they can get with such guesses, whether they lead nowhere or to a reasonably coherent and internally consistent reading. >I'd rather cut through such confounds and see if independent >and unbiased labs By "confounds",. you again obviously mean context and your alleged "priming effect" or reader bias. However, your own study clearly failed to demonstrate any significant "priming effect." Initial choices of maybe, at most, 1 or 2% of the words based solely on given context is such a weak effect that it isn't even worth worrying about. Furthermore, your own study demonstrated an extremely robust improvement in the reading of the clearer "common words" when subjects had the correct context, again completely undercutting your argument that correct context would make such readings less reliable. The advantages of knowing context obviously far and away outweigh the very slight biasing effect that it may or may not have. Furthermore, readers are completely free to change their initial impressions. Of course, this isn't the way you and Randle chose to slant your conclusions. Instead of correctly writing that reader bias had almost no effect on the words read (except to greatly improve the reading in the correct context group), you instead claimed there was a very important "priming effect" that biased the readings and rendered them unreliable. Tucked in elsewhere in the paper was the sheepish admission that you had no data to support this conclusion since it had been thrown away. You then use this largely imaginary "priming effect" as the lynchpin of your argument that the _only_ valid way to read the memo is to turn it over to "independent" and "unbiased" analysts provided no information at all, again suggesting, with no foundation, that previous readings are almost purely the result of reader "bias." >can manipulate the text to such a degree that they >can confirm or deny some of the key phrases (or any phrases for >that matter) that Rudiak and others (including my own >experimental subjects) perceive in the Ramey Memo. I see two small positives here. One is the realization that readings would be most profitable by limiting them to the key phrases and words in the memo rather than having the analysts try to decipher the entire message, an extremely difficult task requiring a lot of time that I doubt you could budget for and I doubt that a bunch of "blind" analysts with no motivation other than money would carry through to the end when the money ran out. Knowing nothing, it will be hard enough keeping them on task as it is, just as you yourself noted with your blind control group, which was obviously highly unmotivated. The second small positive is that you have made the task so difficult (arbitrarily so based on false analysis of your own work -- but that's another matter) by removing all context, that if these people do agree on key words and phrases such as "the victims of the wreck", it would be pretty hard to deny that these words and phrases are due to "wishful thinking." I think there is a decent chance that the analysts will be able to make out these clearer phrases. However, it is also quite possible that you have made the task much too difficult by leaving out context that could be used to disambiguate possible readings (is it "victims of the wreck" or "virgins of the witch"?). There is the distinct possibility of negative results. In that situation, the correct conclusion would be, "In the most difficult experimental situation we could devise to eliminate the possibility of any bias in the readings, the readers could not confirm various readings by others, some of whom knew the correct historical context, which might assist their interpretations. We clearly showed this in our previous study, where words common to all experimental situations, including a misleading leading context and no context, were much more likely to be seen by subjects knowing the proper context. Thus even though our blind readers could not confirm these readings, it does not necessarily follow that the readings made previously under less stringent conditions with known context were wrong." Unfortunately, given your own obvious expressed biases, the conclusion, I fear, would more likely come out like this. "Independent and unbiased analysts of the Ramey message who were operating without the priming of context, as we so clearly demonstrated in our previous study, denied finding the words and phrases previously claimed by pro-Roswell readers who were so primed. Thus this study convincingly demonstrates the these previous readings by people with pro-Roswell agendas were a case of seeing exactly what they wished to see." >Forget for a >minute any text that Rudiak has reconstructed through a form of >probability analysis...I mean text that he states anyone can >clearly read after enhancement and which is posted on his >website. Either independent and unbiased labs can replicate >these findings or not. That is not peer-review, but rather a >conceptual replication study. And, a desperately needed one at >that from my perspective. I again raise the question that I asked Dick Hall (but received no answer), namely why are the _perceptions_ of technical people necessarily more valid than that of other people, however the results turn out? If the technicians agree, does this instantly validate previous readings? And if the analysis of the technicians "deny" some readings, would this necessarily invalidate them? If so why? Wouldn't they just be one more set of opinions on a perceptual task? If, e.g., this limited set of analysts fails to see "weather balloons," why would this invalidate the presence of these words when a wide variety of people see the words there? Furthermore, since endless psychological studies for over a 100 years have demonstrated that correct perception in ambiguous situations is highly dependent on having the correct context (even your own study demonstrates this effect if analyzed correctly), why would negative results in context-free situation invalidate results obtained from a contextual situation? Since you seem hell-bent to carry out your study without context, might I suggest a few modifications to your proposed protocol to make the results more informative? First, why not at least provide your analysts with some minimal context that might help them read some parts of this message without betraying the Roswell/UFO connection. E.g., I don't see the harm in providing the teletype font of that period to aid them in interpreting individual letters. Also Steve Kaeser recently e-mailed me that maybe they could be told this was thought to be a military communication. You could even throw in that it was an AAF communication from sometime in the late 1940s, or something like that. This would at least give these poor bastards a little something to work with. Now they could at least distinguish possibilities like "victims" from "violins" using the military context if letter analysis alone wasn't sufficient. And I think you agree to the type of protocol I used, such as making proper letter counts and adhering to them, and making sure the interpretation was ultimately grammatical and made sense. The latter is very important, since analyzing the thing letter-by-letter will likely produce mostly gibberish. This shouldn't be accepted as a final result. When the analysts finally throw in the towel, you could ratchet up the information. "The photo was taken in Fort Worth, Tex. at 8th AAF Headquarters, during a press conference concerning a recent air accident." That tells them nothing about Roswell or crashed flying disks, but they do learn about the Fort Worth and 8th AAF connection and provides the important context about this involving an accident of some kind. It is also likely to re- motivate them somewhat. When they ran with that as far as they thought they could, you could provide the complete context. "The photo is in the hand of Gen. Roger Ramey, head of the 8th AAF in Fort Worth, Tex. It was taken late in the afternoon of July 8, 1947. His subcommand was Roswell Air Field in New Mexico. About two hours prior to this photo being taken, Roswell base had issued a press release saying that a "flying disk" or "disc" had been recovered from a nearby ranch and had been flown by B-29 to "higher headquarters" for further inspection. Gen. Ramey also publicly announced that the so-called "disk" would also be forwarded to the air laboratories at Wright Air Field, Dayton, Ohio. Multiple photos of Ramey were taken with a weather balloon and a radar wind tracking target (also known as a RAWIN) displayed on the floor while Ramey held the message. Ramey publicly stated that he was of the opinion that the object was nothing more than the remains of a weather balloon and a radar target. Afterwards he brought in a weather officer for positive identification. This was soon followed by another press release that the so-called flying disk was really a weather balloon and radar target. In the days to follow, the military also carried out demonstrations of weather balloons and radar targets and stated these likely explained what was found at Roswell and the all the other recent flying disk or flying saucer sightings widely reported by the nations press." All of this is strictly factual information that can be gleaned from a reading of the contemporaneous press reports. I have these up on my web-site at www.roswellproof.com/press_coverage.html. Of course even more background information could be added. "The FBI was told by one of Ramey's men that the 'disc' was 'hexagonal in shape' and suspended from a balloon by a cable. It resembled a high altitude weather balloon with a radar reflector, but in phone conversations, Wright Field did not agree." "Gen. Hoyt Vandenberg, acting chief of the AAF at the Pentagon was reported to have dropped into the AAF press headquarters within about an hour of the initial Roswell press release and taken personal charge of the investigation by phoning both Roswell base and Gen. Ramey at Fort Worth." This statement of fact, again taken from the newspapers, tells us something about the chain of command and who Ramey might be communicating with. "Two Roswell airmen later testified that they were part of a B29 crew that flew a large wooden crate under armed guard from Roswell to Fort Worth the next day and that it was met at the base by a mortician." Etc., etc. Of course, one could go on and on into much more detail. But the basic idea is to see what happens as more information is provided. We might find the analysts slapping their foreheads and saying, "Well, of course, knowing that information, it is clear this word is "disc", not "risk". Why didn't you tell us this stuff before to help us interpret these words properly?" David Rudiak
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 27 Re: NASA & UFOs? - Stanford From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 11:32:25 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 00:17:48 -0500 Subject: Re: NASA & UFOs? - Stanford >From: Bruno Mancusi <swissufo@swissufo.ch> >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 19:43:00 +0100 >Subject: Re: NASA & UFOs? <snip> >The departure was on time, 22 February 1996 at 3:18 p.m. >(mission STS-75). >The day after, we visited the KSC and I saw three beautiful >flying saucers in... the kindergarten! Yes, it's the only place >at NASA were we can see UFOs. They were made of Lego and in a >display cabinet. I took some slides of them. There was an >explanation text, which I copied exactly: >[begin] >UFOs >Unidentified Flying Objects have been reported for many >centuries in widely separated parts of the world. No two >sightings are exactly the same. They inspire fear, wonder and >curiosity. What are they? Where do they come from? Are there >forms of life in the endless reaches of space trying to make >contact, or are they all in the imagination? >[end] That's a nice 'human interest' story, Bruno! Thanks for sharing it. Ray Stanford "You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 27 Sightings Continue In Buenos Aires Province From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 11:55:33 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 13:22:28 -0500 Subject: Sightings Continue In Buenos Aires Province INEXPLICATA The Journal of Hispanic Ufology January 27, 2003 SOURCE: Planetaufo DATE: January 26,2003 UFO SIGHTINGS CONTINUE IN BUENOS AIRES PROVINCE The Argentine Republic - mainly the province of Buenos Aires - has reported several UFO cases in different communities over the course of January 2003. An example of these were the events of Saturday, January 11, when numerous fireballs were reported over the city of Buenos Aires, in the neighborhoods of La Boca, Avenida 9 de Julio, and other sectors of the city. The fireballs were blue, red and green, moving at variable speeds and following flight patterns unattainable by commercial aircraft. Around that same time, other strange fireballs of different colors were reported in the city of Necochea s coastal area and park. Several witnesses to the event described them as having a variety of colors . On January 17, 2003, an electrical technician named Hugo E. Reinoso saw an intense white light over the coastal city of Necochea. The object engaged in a variety of maneuvers and made no noise whatsoever. Now, in the city of San Andres de Giles, a large circle measuring some 7 meters in diameter, with burned grass and talc-like ash at its center, has been found in recent hours on a soybean field by a Buenos Aires cattle rancher. Juan Carlos Ferreto was startled upon seen the perfect circle. All around him, the soybean plants were very green, having a height of 40 centimeters overall except for the 7 meter section found. These events were reminiscent of others which occurred in the same spot on September 4, 1981, when another ash-filled circle was discovered. Juanc Carlos Mendizabal recalled these events, remembering that at the time, a large Australian water tank had been drained of water and the electrical system (fuses, wires and windings) had been completed melted. Events continue to occur in the province of Buenos Aires this summer of 2003. Translation C 2003 Scott Corrales IHU Special thanks to Guillermo Daniel Gim=E9nez, Necochea (Argentina)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 27 The Un-Secret Shuttle Videos & Mars Images From: Geoff Richardson <geoff@fastdog.karoo.co.uk> Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 18:46:53 -0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:57:20 -0500 Subject: The Un-Secret Shuttle Videos & Mars Images A number of brief but relevant videos of controversial events during Shuttle Missions have been added to "The WHY? FILES" See "The Un-secret Shuttle Videos" at: http://www.thewhyfiles.co.uk Also, The Mars Files - controversial images from the surface of Mars. Regards, Geoff Richardson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 27 Hickson & Parker? From: Philip Mantle <philip.mantle@eidosnet.co.uk> Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 17:59:00 -0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:58:49 -0500 Subject: Hickson & Parker? I just wondered if anyone can point me in the right direction of a web site that has details and images of the Charles Hickson and Calvin Parker abduction case. Please respond directly to me at: philip.mantle@eidosnet.co.uk Many thanks, Philip Mantle www.beyondpublications.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 27 'Hangar 18'? From: Philip Mantle <philip.mantle@eidosnet.co.uk> Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 18:00:35 -0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 22:01:19 -0500 Subject: 'Hangar 18'? Can anyone point me in the direction of where I might obtain a copy on either video or DVD of the UFO movie 'Hangar 18'? Please reply direct to: philip.mantle@eidosnet.co.uk Many thanks, Philip Mantle www.beyondroswell.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 27 Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Dabrowski From: Andrew Dabrowski <dabrowsa@indiana.edu> Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 15:48:17 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 22:03:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Dabrowski >From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>> >Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 18:24:18 +0100 >Subject: Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? >The arguments of arch-skeptics Maillot and Scornaux are well >known in France for having been re-hashed over many years. Their >"motives" (what do you mean by "ulterior") are well known. Not >one good UFO study must remained unpunished! Recently, Maillot >proposed to me to debate about the Arnold sightings : I said no >thanks! I am not even sure he reads English properly. There is a plausible case to be made that what Arnold saw was actually birds. Why didn't you accept the offer? If he doesn't read English properly you could have demolished him. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Andrew Dabrowski | Lueckenlos ist die Welt, doch SE 117 5-5470 | zusammengehalten ... von den Verschwundenen. dabrowsa@indiana.edu | Sie sind ueberall. -Enzensberger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 27 Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Dabrowski From: Andrew Dabrowski <dabrowsa@indiana.edu> Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 15:54:20 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 22:05:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Dabrowski >From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>> >Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 18:24:18 +0100 >Subject: Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? ><snip> >The arguments of arch-skeptics Maillot and Scornaux are well >known in France for having been re-hashed over many years. Their >"motives" (what do you mean by "ulterior") are well known. Not >one good UFO study must remained unpunished! Recently, Maillot >proposed to me to debate about the Arnold sightings - I said no >thanks! I am not even sure he reads English properly. See: http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/1999/aug/m12-002.shtml for the argument the Arnold's sighting was of pelicans. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Andrew Dabrowski | Lueckenlos ist die Welt, doch SE 117 5-5470 | zusammengehalten ... von den Verschwundenen. dabrowsa@indiana.edu | Sie sind ueberall. -Enzensberger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 27 Video Footage Follow-Up From: Barry Taylor <stingray@nor.com.au> Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 11:58:35 +1100 Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 22:08:30 -0500 Subject: Video Footage Follow-Up Hi List, Seems as if a contact has just video-taped a UFO. Is there someone on this List close, to North Carolina, that would be willing to check this out for me, and possibly check the footage. I am in Australia yet would be interested in results. Contact Barry Taylor stingray@nor.com.au for further details. Thanks in advance, Barry Taylor PS, If you find the time, please browse my NEW web site. http://home.manyrivers.aunz.com/stingray/ Some new research details now installed. Personal UFO Web Site (Est.1996) http://home.manyrivers.aunz.com/stingray/ Original site - http://www.nor.com.au/users/stingray/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 27 Research In Progress From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 22:51:37 +0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 22:10:41 -0500 Subject: Research In Progress Joan Woodward and I currently are working on a major new catalogue and analysis of the 1966-67 UFO sighting wave, surely the largest such of all time. Whether in the final analysis UFOs prove to be alien visitations, beings from some presently unknown realm, psychosocial fictions, or mistaken observations, this wave ought to provide meaningful clues. Anyone who has knowledge of reasonably substantial UFO sightings from this period (above and beyond light sources flitting around in the sky) that are not likely to be in the mainline literature, please let me know. - Dick Hall P.S. I suggest that anyone currently engaged in research projects let us know about them. This is an important function that UFO UpDates could perform. It is known in the professional scientific and editorial world as "Current Awareness" notification and can both contribute to more thorough research and prevent unnecessary duplication.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 27 SciFi/UNM Dig Wrong Roswell Site? From: Brad Sparks Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 18:19:12 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 22:18:35 -0500 Subject: SciFi/UNM Dig Wrong Roswell Site? The Sci Fi Channel-sponsored UNM archaeological excavation of the reported Mack Brazel Debris Field may have been done at the wrong site. According to UNM's Bill Doleman, whose excavation report is soon to be published, the site where he dug was identified by Roswell investigator Don Schmitt, who in turn apparently identified the Debris Field site for him after one error (and retracing of route) based on witness interviews. I spoke with Doleman by phone about this, and this is also on the Roswell Dig Diaries on the Sci Fi website for Sept. 16, 2002, at: http://www.scifi.com/ufo/digdiaries/day/04.htm Schmitt interviewed Bill Brazel on-site in 1989. The site is marked by a "stone cairn". However, Bill Brazel in 1994 marked the Debris Field on a USGS topographic map for researcher Vic Golubic and that site is approximately 1.2 miles away, to the southeast. Loretta Proctor identified the Debris Field for Karl Pflock and others as including a BLM survey marker, and that marker is located about 1/3 MILE AWAY from the UNM dig site/stone cairn. Here are the latitude-longitude coordinates for the various sites listed sequentially from South to North, as best as I have been able to determine given the difficulties of obtaining co-operation from some parties: Latitude N Longitude W [Removed by Moderator] These distances are greater than the reported size of the Debris Field itself so it cannot be explained away by that. The North American Datum 1927/NAD 1983/WGS 1984 conversion amounts to only about 169 ft for this location, as I've previously discussed with Bill Doleman, so that cannot be the explanation. This points up a crying need for more careful checking of data in the UFO field, including the Roswell case. I have been trying for more than 4 years to obtain lat-long co-ordinates and topo maps for the Roswell Debris Field site and have had great difficulty doing so. I've posted on a number of Lists asking for info. Conversely, no one bothered to consult me on the site co-ordinates on the possibility that I might have collected useful data, even though I had posted on UFO Lists on the subject. Brad Sparks
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 27 USAF's McAndrew Mogul Balloon Comments From: Keith Rowell <kerowell@attbi.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 16:25:24 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 22:21:59 -0500 Subject: USAF's McAndrew Mogul Balloon Comments I was browsing recently in the AF's The Roswell Report: Fact versus Fiction in the New Mexico Desert (USAF, 1995) - the mega- paged version with all the Project Mogul info - and was struck by McAndrew's comments about a Project Mogul balloon coming to rest in Brooklyn, New York, of all places! McAndrew gave a citation to a New York Times article so I tracked it down. And I must say it strains credulity to breaking to believe that a trained military intelligence officer, such as Marcel, could fail to identify rubber weather balloons, polyethylene balloons, and/or instrumentation packages when Brooklyn policemen, a tavern owner, and barflies apparently could. KR ******************************************* From the Introduction by 1st Lt, USAFR, James McAndrews of The Roswell Report: Fact versus Fiction in the New Mexico Desert (Headquarters United States Air Force, 1995, ISBN 0-16-048023- X), p. 2-3, Nevertheless, while the nature of the project [KR: Project Mogul] remained shrouded in secrecy, some of its operations obviously could not. The deployment of giant trains of balloons--over thirty research ballooons and experimental sensors strung together and stretching more than 600 feet--could be neither disguised nor hidden from the public. Moreover, operational necessity required that these balloons be launched during daylight hours. It was therefore not surprising that these balloons were often mistaken for UFOs. In fact, MOGUL recovery grews often listened to broadcasts of UFO reports to assist them in their tracking operations. Additionally, the balloons were unsteerable, leading to such amusing events as the one reported by the New York Times in which a secret MOGUL balloon "floated blithely over the rooftops of Flatbush . . . causing general public excitement . . . before it came to rest on top of a [Brooklyn] tavern."* In another episode, MOGUL balloon recovery technicians directed a B-17 bomber, which was tracking one of the tests, to buzz and scare off a curious oil rig crew that was about to "capture" a balloon train that had fallen near Roswell. * New York Times, "Balloon Staggers Down to Brooklyn Tavern, Hooks Itself to Roof and Upsets Decorum," Oct 1, 1948. ******************************************* From the New York Times, October 1, 1948: Balloon Staggers Down to Brooklyn Tavern, Hooks Itself to Roof and Upsets Decorum [no author] The Navy would like to get rid of a forty-foot balloon that floated blithely over the rooftops of Flatbush yesterday causing general public excitement and annoyance to the police before it came to rest on top of a tavern at 1896 Nostrand Avenue, Brooklyn. The balloon is at Floyd Bennett Naval Air Station and the folks there have no use for it. The balloon first was seen pushing its way through the drizzle at 10:30 A.M. at a height reported variously as between 500 and 2,000 feet. It was descending lazily and several citizens called the police. Eventually it settled on the roof of the one-story building housing the Newkirk Tavern. Patrolman William Kearny of the Brooklyn Avenue Station was in the vicinity, off-duty and minding his own business when he heard the commotion and went out to investigate. When he saw the plastic bag bulging over the side of the building he went up to the roof to free it. The balloon clung tenaciously to its perch. Patrolman Kearny yanked at it twice, the second time a little too strongly. He lost his balance and toppled to the street. He was hurt slightly and spent the rest of the afternoon in bed at his home, 1363 Nostrand Avenue, Brooklyn. A radio car arrived from the Snyder Avenue station and two policemen managed to loosen the balloon, which they took to the station house. Calls were made to the Weather Bureau and to Army and Navy installations, but all disclaimed ownership. The Physics Department at Princeton University, which has been sending balloons up for experimental purposes, said it wasn't their baby either because they had not sent a balloon aloft since August. The Civil Aeronautics Authority, which did a little investigation on its own, reported last night that the balloon did not belong to any state, city or Federal agency or college in this area and that it probably was the handiwork of a private citizen. In case a description would help find the owner, here it is: The balloon is about forty feet long and twenty-five feet wide, pear shaped and with a neck one foot in width, from which a metal ring is suspended. The ring probably supported a small basket, now missing. The bag is made of a clear white plastic material, segmented in design - that's the police description. *******************************************
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 27 Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 22:25:23 +0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 22:25:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Hall >From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 15:21:59 -0800 >Subject: Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? <snip> >I recall reading "substantial differences" in interpretation of >Trans en Provence by various researchers. Dick Hall's analysis >has never been subjected to an "objective peer review" to test >whether his interpretation is any better than anybody else's. >Without such a review, one interpretation is just as good as >another. Dick Hall, however, "seems to doubt the concept >somewhat by casting aspersions on anyone who even may disagree >with him." David, I gave no interpretation of Trans en Provence, and the piece written by Rob Swiatek with my research assistance has been peer reviewed, as you would know if you actually read my writings and looked at the sources cited. So your analogy never gets beyond sarcasm and mocking. If disagreement with someone's conclusions and pointing out the lack of evidence for their claims is "aspersions", than I will cast my aspersions on the waters in many cases. >We are certainly all indebted to all the hard work Dick Hall has >put into this, but now it's time to turn analysis over to the >real experts so it can be done properly. "Obviously he is >convinced that he is right." However, he needs to "lighten up" >if he thinks he is the only one qualified to do this type of >analysis. Unlike you re: Roswell, I never claimed to be the only qualified, credentialed person re: Trans en Provence. Obviously I am only a reporter on this case and many others, but if you check the references cited you will see that some thorough research has been done. >If Dick Hall wishes to argue that Trans en Provence was not a >hoax, the "burden of proof" is definitely upon him. What does he >"hope to accomplish by insisting that the point has been proven, >when it hasn't to anyone's satisfaction than his own >apparently." >"I would be absolutely delighted" if he "could prove it beyond a >reasonable doubt." But surely he can't expect anyone to read all >those "esoteric" and "convoluted arguments" in The UFO Evidence >2! Who has the time? Besides, you have to be rich to afford it. >Instead he should submit his arguments to a peer reviewed >journal and make sure that they are "readily available" to all. >The above is a pretty accurate paraphrasing of the "tone" Dick >Hall has adopted towards me in his recent posts on the thread >"Validating the Ramey Memo." Straight out of the Debunking 101 >manual as far as I'm concerned. You might say that "my >previously expressed admiration" for him has taken a "severely >negative turn" recently. This really takes the cake for chutzpah! Richard Hall the debunker, not the well-informed questioner and commentator. Presumably if I disagree with you on anything at all, that makes me a debunker. As I have indicated several times, you and I have far more agreement than disagreement. Therefore, I am at a loss to understand your obvious rancor in all this. As Harry Truman said, "If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen." If your work is above and beyond all comment and criticism, then you obviously cannot and will not accept (or understand the spirit of) peer review. >His demand for peer review of my work, saying the "burden of >proof" was on me, but refusing in the same breath to even look >my work, claiming he didn't have the time, absolutely >flabbergasted me (not to mention a few others who e-mailed me). >How is one supposed to "prove" one's case when the priests >refuse to look through the telescope? Oh, anonymous support for your distorted interpretation of what I said. How nice! I candidly told you that I don't have time to look into all the details of your (or anyone else's) work on the Ramey message (or many other topics) and you twist that around into "refusing" to look at it. >How can the author of "The UFO Evidence" be such a hypocrite? >Have the pod people taken over the real Dick Hall? I think I >hear Bob Young giggling out there over the irony of it all. I could return the fire on this sort of cheap garbage with equally silly and meaningless insults and abusive commentary, but I won't stoop to that level. However, I do see that you and James Houran, contrary to my comments about there being disagreement on methodology and findings, are in entire agreement. (-; - Dick Hall
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 27 Are We Alone? Quite Possibly From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 22:57:42 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 22:57:42 -0500 Subject: Are We Alone? Quite Possibly http://www.savannahnow.com/stories/012603/LOCPerfectPlanet.shtml Are we alone? Quite possibly By Doug Wyatt mrwyatt2u@yahoo.com 912-652-0362 Aliens, we're told, dwell among us. According to countless sci- fi enthusiasts, indeed, the galaxy's only slightly less crowded than Atlanta at rush hour. A growing number of observers, more impressed by sci than fi, don't think so. Why? Because our sun, despite its frequent designation in textbooks as an "ordinary" star, really isn't that average. Most stars in the Middle Way are smaller and can't supply the energy requirements for a life-sustaining planet. Our little rock, the third from the sun, sits comfortably in the "Goldilocks" zone, just right for life, not so close that it's torrid like Mercury and Venus, not so far it's freezing. "It appears," says William Burger in his "Perfect Planet. Clever Species: How Unique Are We?," "that we have got ourselves just the right kind of star." In his book, Burger, the curator emeritus of the Botany Department at Chicago's Field Museum of Natural History, shows why, contrary to the X-Filers and saucer-chasers of the world, we might just be the only "intelligent life" in the galaxy. Humanity's ascent, he explains, was uncommonly lucky. Would mammals have evolved, for instance, if dinosaurs hadn't vanished after space rocks whacked into the planet? Or would we be here if flowering plants hadn't flourished? "Until there was rich three-dimensional land flora to support a feisty fauna, the likelihood of evolving smart monkeys and even smarter humans was zero," writes Burger. "Creatures like ourselves are likely to evolve only when challenged by rich and complex environments. That's been true here on planet Earth, and it's likely to be true elsewhere in the universe as well." Elsewhere, Burger discusses the remarkably rapid expansion of the human brain, the astonishing instrument that has enabled us to talk, build cities and wonder who else lives among the stars. After canvassing several contending theories, he sides with those who think we're smart because we fight a lot. "Deadly conflict," he writes, "is the only likely source of continuous selection pressure for nonstop brain expansion throughout the huge geographic range humans have occupied over the last two million years my argument here is that humans got really smart because we invented troubles for each other that nature did not provide for other species. By constant intergroup or interclan warfare, we created a unique evolutionary arms race and escalating feedback loop within our own species." Citing Leo Durocher's celebrated dictum about temperament and pennant races, Burger remarks, "We humans are not nice guys, neither today nor in the past, which is why we've finished first." For immense stretches of time, though, we didn't really use our fancy brains (what the author calls the "world's finest computer sitting between our ears") that much. Ultimately, it was culture that separated us from the beasts. In later chapters, Burger discusses the agricultural revolution, the rise of city-states, how humans learned to work with metals, and the growth of Western science. The rise of the latter, he notes, depend upon a host of innovations first developed by the Greeks, Romans, Chinese, Hebrews, Muslims and Indians. Would all those notions arise on other planets and lead to a technological culture? We don't really know, of course, if anybody else is out there. To this day SETI (Search For Extraterrestrial Intelligence) programs scan the skies for signals from beyond. Maybe space critters will flit down on the White House lawn tomorrow. Burger, citing the numerous hurdles in the development of a technical civilization, doesn't think so. Like several other recent books -- notably Peter Ward and Donald Brownlee's "Rare Earth" -- he pierces clouds of fancy with much-needed clarity. While we might quibble, grammatically, with "How Unique Are We? -- some of us old-school folks still maintain that "unique," like "perfect," doesn't admit to degrees of comparison -- the book itself is a sweeping, fascinating look at the history of life on what might be the rarest of planetary jewels. [UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 27 UFO Groups Keep Wary Eye On Raelians From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 23:02:59 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 23:02:59 -0500 Subject: UFO Groups Keep Wary Eye On Raelians http://www.floridatoday.com/!NEWSROOM/peoplestoryA41638A.htm Jan 26, 8:53 AM UFO groups keep wary eye on Raelians FLORIDA TODAY Staff and Wire reports When the Raelian cloning story broke last month, Joe Jordan felt obliged to check the latest updates on the group's Web Site. As state section director for the Mutual UFO Network's Brevard chapter, the Port St. John resident was already familiar with much of the sect's dogma. "What was really interesting were the numbers on their (Web Site) counters," Jordan recalls. "I'd leave for a minute or two to go somewhere else, and when I'd come back, the number of visitors would increase significantly, by the thousands. Whether or not they're buying it, I don't know. But there's no doubt they're getting the attention they wanted." Jordan doubts the Raelian clamor will further stigmatize the already controversial field of UFOlogy, but he's concerned about its impact on naive idealists. The alien abduction phenomenon, for instance, generally breaks down into two categories among those who claim they've been taken: victims who feel traumatized, and contactees professing enlightenment. The latter, he says, often feel empowered with insights that appear similar to the Raelians' "utopian" philosophies. "It's very enticing, very seductive, to want to save this devastated world of ours," he says. "But what I worry about is this turning into a dangerous cult, like Heaven's Gate." Heaven's Gate was a UFO-based sect founded by charismatic leader Marshall Applewhite. The group collapsed in 1997 with the suicides of 39 members in San Diego. "We consider (Raelians) at the very least a nuisance," says Don Berliner, chairman of the Fund for UFO Research (FUFOR), a nonprofit that since 1979 has awarded grants for UFO investigations. "There are a lot of groups on the fringes of the UFO community who are nothing but trouble and make all sorts of flashy claims." An aviation enthusiast who has been in the UFO game for 50 years, Berliner says he was a college student when he "first got annoyed that there were things flying through my skies that nobody seemed to be able to identify." Although he has never seen a UFO or crossed paths with an alien, he knows of so many respected people who have that he no longer harbors any doubts. Berliner has also been aware of the Raelians for years. "It's people like that who give the UFO field a bad name," he says, explaining that FUFOR's approach is to apply conventional scientific techniques to an unscientific subject. "But with nut cases like that running around loose, it is more difficult." Florida Today staff writer Billy Cox contributed to this report. [UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 28 Sci-Fi Today: Is Anybody Out There? From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 06:22:41 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 09:43:37 -0500 Subject: Sci-Fi Today: Is Anybody Out There? Source: Sci-Fi Today http://www.scifitoday.com/story/2003/1/26/21377/4089 Go to the page for links in the text. Stig *** Is Anybody Out There? By Drog, Section Commentary Posted on Sun Jan 26th, 2003 at 09:37:07 PM EST ** "Do you think there's people on other planets?" Ellie Arroway asked her father in the film "Contact", adapted from Carl Sagan's novel of the same name. "I don't know Sparks, but I guess I'd say if it is just us, it seems like an awful waste of space." For even if we could someday discover a way of exceeding the speed of light, how could we possibly hope to explore this incomprehensibly large universe before it finally ends in a bang or a whimper? The gut feeling of so many of us is that surely somewhere among these estimated 1021 stars, each one perhaps the centre of its own solar system, extraterrestrial life must have evolved. Surely the universe must be teeming with life, and surely some of those worlds, even if just a small fraction, must have intelligent life. The now-famous Drake Equation, presented in 1961 by Dr. Frank Drake, actually attempts to estimate the number of technological civilizations that may exist in our galaxy. A recent poll revealed that 22 per cent of Canadians trust that life on another planet will be discovered in their lifetime. Yet many scientists caution against this line of thinking, pointing out that until we find evidence that life (even microbial life) has evolved separately on another planet, or we learn how to create life from scratch ourselves, we cannot assume that statistically, life must have evolved elsewhere--because the odds against life forming from lifeless chemicals may be astronomically high. Even finding life elsewhere in our solar system would probably not be sufficient evidence that life had evolved separately twice, since life may just have evolved once and then spread to Earth and other planets via asteroids. So our existence should in no way affect our estimate of the likelihood of life having evolved elsewhere. We may very well be the only life in the universe. An anomaly. Despite their best efforts, the SETI Institute (of which Dr. Frank Drake is the Chairman of the Board) has not yet detected an interstellar radio signal since it was founded in 1984. Nor has the popular distributed computing project SETI@home, which uses your computer's spare CPU cycles to analyze data obtained from the Arecibo Observatory in Puerto Rico. In the recent book "Perfect Planet. Clever Species: How Unique Are We?" author William C. Burger argues that our sun, despite its frequent designation in textbooks as an "ordinary" star, really isn't that average. Most stars are smaller and can't supply the energy requirements for a life-sustaining planet. In addition, our planet lies sits comfortably in the "Goldilocks" zone, just right for life, not so close that it's torrid like Mercury and Venus, not so far that it's freezing. As an article in SavannahNOW explains, humanity's ascent was uncommonly lucky. Would mammals have evolved if dinosaurs hadn't vanished? Would we be here if flowering plants hadn't flourished? "Until there was rich three-dimensional land flora to support a feisty fauna, the likelihood of evolving smart monkeys and even smarter humans was zero," Burger states. "Creatures like ourselves are likely to evolve only when challenged by rich and complex environments. That's been true here on planet Earth, and it's likely to be true elsewhere in the universe as well." In a recent phone interview with Dalton State College, Tom Dreschel, a manager at the NASA Fundamental Space Biology Outreach Program said, "At this point in time, we don't have any hard evidence of life on other planets. But we don't have any reason to believe there is not." He added, "I think there's likely life on other planets, intelligent or not. With all the billions of planets out there, there are bound to be a few conducive to higher life forms." Regarding how they may appear, Dreschel said, "A lot of science fiction writers have speculated on that. It would depend on what conditions it developed under. Things that live on the bottom of the sea don't look like things that live on land. They would need millions, if not billions, of years to develop intelligent life forms." And what of the possibility of aliens visiting us? "I find that very unlikely," said Dreschel. "Even if they could break the speed of light, it would take generations to move from one star to another. And they would have to be able to survive the trip." A major problem, he went on to say, is that of transporting food, water and other necessities. "On average, a single person uses 11 metric tons of food, water and oxygen per year. You'd have to take along extra space shuttles just for the supplies." Until humans can reduce the travel time between planets and galaxies, long-distance space travel will probably remain in the realm of fantasy, Dreschel said. Yet perhaps not all of Dreschel's arguments make sense. If we could break the speed of light, for instance, via some sort of warp drive, who is to say how much faster than light we might travel? Perhaps it would only take days, not generations. Or if the speed of light cannot be passed, perhaps a voyage of hundreds of years is a mere inconvenience for a near-immortal species or a species that has perfected cryonics, in which people are frozen, so as not to age, and later revived (not to be confused with cryogenics). But IF intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe, and IF they are capable of interstellar travel, then where are they? If they are already here, as may UFO believers think, then why would they not announce themselves? Rather than getting into conspiracy theories of government coverups, perhaps a better question could be asked, namely, "Why would we expect them to communicate with us?" Consider this. Our knowledge of the human genome and genetic manipulation is growing by leaps and bounds every year, yet it is still in its infancy. How long might it be before an intellectually superior human is genetically engineered? No matter how many laws are passed in countries around the world, surely someone will do it eventually, whether it takes decades, centuries or millenia. And who knows what feats of science those new humans will be capable of achieving? Fear of being at a technological disadvantage will cause this genetic manipulation to become common practice. The next evolutionary leap for humanity, however much we may fear it, will surely be due to genetic manipulation. At the same time, we may see the dawn of true artificial intelligence within years or decades. Now imagine that these two advances had already happened to an alien race, not just hundreds or thousands of years ago, but millions of years ago. Their intelligence could very well be beyond the scope of our imagination. We would have nothing of worth to offer them. No knowledge of any value to share. The only interest we may hold to them may be to study, without interference, the early development of a primitive species, much in the same way we study an ant colony. Given that if intelligent extraterrestrial life exists, they may very well be superior to us in intellect and technology, how wise would it be to purposefully announce our presence to the universe via radio transmissions, the way we hope other races are doing when we scan the skies for intelligent signals? Would it not be naive of us to assume all the E.T.'s are benevolent? In numerous science fiction novels, such as Battlefield Earth and The Neutrino Effect, Earth is noticed and promptly invaded precisely because of this naivete. So is anybody out there? We just don't know. But we are rapidly becoming more adept at finding distant worlds and searching them for signs of life, so if intelligent life does exist out there somewhere, we may very well be on the cusp of finding them. For better or for worse. ** All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective companies. Comments are owned by the Poster. The Rest C. 2002 Drog Media.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 28 Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Mott From: Wm. Michael Mott <mottimorph@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 22:46:59 -0600 Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 09:51:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Mott Hello to the List, I'm Wm. Michael Mott. I was led to check out the group archives due to someone mentioning a cross-post from me which was made here back in October. The information presented here tends to be excellent and well- researched, so I decided to formally join, instead of just checking out the web-archives. Back in October of 02, a cross-post of mine, following some assertions I had made on the fantasticreality group at Yahoo!Groups, apparently raised some hackles (or was it perceived as some sort of personal threat?). Since I've but recently been made aware of this, I thought it only proper to respond. I believe the original reply to my contention that many or most long-range UFO flight-paths, if carefully examined, tend to follow a roughly north-south or south-north pattern, met with some heady skepticism. Obviously this isn't to say that all UFOs follow this pattern, but this quite often seems to be the case, and UFOs which are following this path tend to veer off on "side trips," even according to posts I've seen right here on this List. Since I subscribe to a more or less terrestrial theory of UFO origin, I think this is a pertinent point which needs further study. And I'm not talking about watching satellites track across the sky. The original retort, shortened, went thusly: >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 00:24:46 -0700 >Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Hatch >I got it. Airhead city. Instant statistics, manufactured to >bolster preposterous claims in the absence of any real >study. This thudding self-certitude was followed by: ----- >From: Kelly Peterborough <kellymcg@attcanada.ca> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 12:09:06 -0400 >Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Peterborough <snip> Subject: [fantasticreality] Re: UFO Flight paths Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 15:43:46 -0000 From: "Wm. Michael Mott" <MOTTIMORPH@EARTHLINK.NET> --- In fantasticreality@y..., Kelly <kellymcg@a...>wrote: >Hi Mike et al, >I posted the following to UFO UpDates because Larry Hatch >maintains a large database of UFO sightings and I wanted his >opinion on the north-south direction of UFOs. Here is what he >had to say (he said I could post his response here, and also, >people might want to look at his site, very interesting): Kelly, The "north-south" observations were first made by Brinsley LePoer Trench and also Raymond Bernard (I believe). This would place the most recent of these two sources (Trench) chronologically during the 1970s. This was one of his primary pieces of evidence for a polar or pole-to-pole connection for UFO flights. Admittedly flight paths could have changed since that time, however. I certainly haven't kept up with it. Obviously, variations of NNE/NNW and SSE/SSW would fit within the north-south pattern. These types of paths are apparently still recorded often: http://lion.nor.com.au/users/stingray/1998.htm 14.02.98 Gold Coast, QLD 0545hrs (DD) On 14th February, at 5:45 AM, on the Gold Coast, Queensland a large black disc shape object was sighted.. The disc shaped object heading due north flew on a straight and level course. Its speed was slower than a commercial aircraft but too fast for a balloon since there was only a 10 knots breeze SSW to NNE. ---- Obviously, I by NO MEANS stated that UFOs only travel in this pattern. This would be absurd. I've seen UFOs going in a North- South, South-North, and East-West directions (and variations on these). Fortunately I had others with me when these sightings occured, and they saw the same things. But there does seem to be a tendency to the North-South or South-North pattern. Another example from the same web page as above: ------ 6.50 pm, just happened to look over my shoulder, over the roof of the house and saw a group of 7-8 UFO,s. They were quickly changing position within the group as they circled in a wide arc. They came from the North, turned West just before Grafton City, and headed North again. They were moving very fast, and the formation changed from horizontal to vertical during flight. I took about a dozen photos of this first pass, with camera speed at 15th sec, and some at 8th sec. If these come out, there will be a short trail in the image because of the speed of the group. As long as I get them. ------- And: CONTINUATION of Monday 20th: Well, I thought they were gone. Just before going to bed, I thought I would just have one more quick look outside. Time 9.15pm. Same group of about 12 did a pass over my house heading North. This time I had a witness who yelled to me "Did you see that?" I did not hear her because of being down the back yard. But I had taken 3 photos of this group with the "Diffraction Grating" on the f2 camera. ( The sequence of passes over Grafton by this same group follows. 9.15 - overhead to the North. 9.30 - west of town to the South. 10.00 - overhead to the North. 10.20 - west of town to the South. 10.40 - high overhead to the North. The passes over town were about 2 - 3,000 feet. I had taken a total of 34 photos by the end of the night. --- And --- 5.00 pm. Went out skywatching while still daylight with my video camera, you never know. Nothing seen. Continued watching until 7.30pm, nothing seen. Just before going to bed, outside again. 9.20 pm saw a group high up approx. 6 - 8,000 ft. heading North in "V" formation at speed 50% faster than any other group seen at this stage. Must be about 5,000 Klm / hr. followed by a second group 20 seconds later. This group on same path, lower, and usual speed. Over the next 1 hour and 20 minutes, I saw the same group 6 times going North than South. Once coming in from the East. They seemed to be concentrating on the North and West of Grafton this time. No photos taken because they were not bright enough. ------ It may be that UFOs utilize the magnetic field of the Earth, as both a means of propulsion and stabilization. They would do this by possibly using the Cathie Grid, which would explain a lot of the north-south tendency (if it is there): http://ascension2000.com/Shift-of-the-Ages/shift09.htm Others have claimed that the flights of UFOs follow geologic features like particular faults or mountain ranges, many or most of which run (roughly or approximately) north-south. Paul Devereaux deducted that the Mochras fault, running north-south, was responsible for a number of UFO sightings when it released pent-up gelogic strain ("earth lights"). Others jumped on this theory and applied to the Cascade range and others. Of course there is always the possibility that many of these sightings are of some sort of top-secret military craft, particularly when it comes to the polar regions. Then again, our military jets were chasing a UFO recently over Maryland. Didn't that one escape in a northerly direction? Feel free to pass this reply back to Larry. I would be _very_ interested in hearing how the percentages of this break down, and if in fact there is anything to it. If he is tracking and logging the data, then I trust whatever he has to say on the matter. --Mike ----------- Hmmm. Lots of FACTS, if the witnesses are reliable. Interesting that there was no snappy, ad hominem rebuttal, only a vague and rather lame attempt to lump the presented data in with satellite trajectories ("garbage") which is "filtered out" by those who presume to be utterly in the know. Too bad that this doesn't address the facts as presented (cross-posted) in the post by Kelly. Later, John Novak made these astute observations: >From: John Novak <john@supremalex.org> >Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 15:07:05 -0700 >Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 18:59:05 -0400 >Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Novak >I can only speak from my own personal experience. I was the >webmaster for James Gilliland and actually lived at his ranch >for a while in Trout Lake, Washington at the base of Mt. Adams. >Over the years, I have lost count of all the anomalous flying >objects I've seen there. http://www.eceti.org >Of the ones that seem to be at a low altitude (500-5000 ft. or >so), they travel all over the place and in all directions. They >have even circled Mt.Adams and then come right over our heads. >The closest one seemed almost close enough to throw a rock at. >I've also seen them spin in tight spirals around each other then >vanish right over head. These ones are the golden-white or >orange balls of light. We have seen these change colors also. >I've also seen three of the huge triangle UFOs up there. These >always seem to moving in a north to south pattern, although the >first time I saw one of these, it came out of the north, then >made a wide turn to the east and headed out of site. So here is corroboration of one particularly large type of craft adhering to a *mostly* north-south pattern of flight..... Except for those "side trips" mentioned above.... >Then there's the UFOs that we called, "high flyers", or ones >that appear to be at satellite altitude. These move mostly on >the north-south route, although we have video of some making >zig-zags and full stops. Again, north-south verification. I've talked to many people over the years who have also described this same tendency. BTW, I'm not personally a proponent of the hollow earth theory but am open-minded when it comes to polar mysteries and anomalies (which do exist); I *do* believe that UFOs are primarily a localized (earthly) phenomenon, as centuries or even millennia of data seem to indicate. The evidence for this is overwhelming. My archived radio interviews at Coast to Coast, James Whale/Talksport, and elsewhere on the web, if you are interested in well-researched FACTS, rather than pompous pronouncements of authoritative assumption, explain this evidence in great detail. Also, my book (bottomost URL) and website (topmost URL) examine these traditional clues at some length. Sorry about the extremely late reply. --Wm. Michael (Mike) Mott http://home.earthlink.net/~mottimorph/SubterraneanIntro2.html http://www.hiddenmysteries.com/caverns
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 28 Autonomous Underwater Vehicles From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 07:01:15 -0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 09:54:09 -0500 Subject: Autonomous Underwater Vehicles Source: Nature Magazine http://www.nature.com/nsu/030120/030120-6.html Only very loosely related to UFOs (USOs-Unidentified Submarine Objects): --- Winged robots were released into the Gulf of Mexico last week to help forecast and study red tides - the mysterious blooms of toxic plankton that kill fish, poison food and choke swimmers. This is the test phase of a year-long project to follow red tides using autonomous underwater vehicles, or AUVs - a first for ocean scientists. "We're definitely breaking some new ground," says marine ecologist Gary Kirkpatrick of the Mote Marine Laboratory in Sarasota, Florida. Equipped with miniature sensors of a type normally dipped over the sides of research ships, the AUVs will survey huge areas of ocean, supervised from the comfort of shore. Hopefully they will maintain a year-round watch on red tides, says Kirkpatrick. The full article can be read at: http://www.nature.com/nsu/030120/030120-6.html Joe
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 28 Re: 'Hangar 18'? - Jones From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 07:32:10 +0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 10:03:52 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Hangar 18'? - Jones Morning Phil >From: Philip Mantle <philip.mantle@eidosnet.co.uk> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 18:00:35 -0000 >Subject: 'Hangar 18'? >Can anyone point me in the direction of where I might obtain a >copy on either video or DVD of the UFO movie 'Hangar 18'? >Please reply direct to: >philip.mantle@eidosnet.co.uk >Many thanks, >Philip Mantle >www.beyondroswell.com http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3308639717&category=30144 -- In an infinite universe, infinitely anything is possible. Sean Jones http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 28 Re: Research In Progress - McGonagle From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 04:08:25 -0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 10:06:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Research In Progress - McGonagle >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 22:51:37 +0000 >Subject: Research In Progress Hello, Dick/List, >Joan Woodward and I currently are working on a major new >catalogue and analysis of the 1966-67 UFO sighting wave, surely >the largest such of all time. <snip> >Anyone who has knowledge of reasonably substantial UFO sightings >from this period (above and beyond light sources flitting around >in the sky) that are not likely to be in the mainline >literature, please let me know. If you can get a copy of "UFOs: Unidentified, Undeniable" by Roger Stanway and Anthony (Tony) Pace, it covers in some detail the wave which hit the Midlands area of the UK in the late summer and autumn of 1967. I am still trying to find the time to scan the final 50 pages of this (I have permission from Tony Pace). If you are willing to wait a few more months, I will happily send you the scanned version. >- Dick Hall >P.S. I suggest that anyone currently engaged in research >projects let us know about them. This is an important function >that UFO UpDates could perform. It is known in the professional >scientific and editorial world as "Current Awareness" >notification and can both contribute to more thorough research >and prevent unnecessary duplication. I would agree, except for people such as two "unenterprising members of the public" who have a tendency to hijack and put their own spin on other people's research then claim it as their own. I am currently involved in a few projects at the moment, some publicly, but others very much out of the limelight. Unfortunately, they will remain so until they are sufficiently advanced that there can be no question of others claiming "world exclusives" based on work by myself and others. Regards, Joe
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 28 Re: Possible 1989 Abduction? - Velez From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 02:34:57 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 10:08:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Possible 1989 Abduction? - Velez >From: Albert Rosales <Garuda79@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 14:50:11 EST >Subject: Possible 1989 Abduction? >Unusual report from South Florida >Location. West Dade County, Florida >Date: Summer 1989 Time: various >Rene Revilla had bought a piece of property very close to the >East Everglades and had encountered differed type of phenomena >in the area. Twice during the course of the summer a tall >stranger who asked him different questions as to his purposes in >the area visited him. The strange was described as a Nordic type >man, very strong and tall, with immaculate features, and always >wearing a gray suit and tie. He seemed to have some type of >accent that the witness could not place. The two times he >arrived at the ranch the witness did not see the mode of >transportation, he was apparently gone by the time the witness >went out the door to see him off. >HC addition # 2333 >Source: Personal Investigation Type: E Hello Albert, All, Oy gevalt! No wonder that people who report abductions aren't taken seriously. How is this report even remotely related to "abduction"? No mention of UFOs, UFO occupants, or of any interaction between the witness and the aforementioned. A tall man in a grey suit asking questions does not an "abduction" make. Considering the fact that the witness wasn't 'taken' any where, I kind of resent the fact that a report such as this is being labeled a 'possible' abduction case. It's not even close. About the only thing that it might be compared to is an MIB report. Only in this case it's a "Man In Grey." Please, let's not make an already confusing issue even more so by trying trying to categorize every nightmare or encounter with a tall, blond haired, blue eyed Amway salesman as an "abduction." It only serves to muddy the water even more than it already is. We need clarity -not more confusion in regard to this disturbing, life-disrupting phenomenon. John Velez Human sample #0113475-M Sign the International Petition to the United Nations for disclosure of information pertaining to UFOs. http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 28 Chile To Build Its First UFO Museum From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 07:47:26 GMT Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 10:10:33 -0500 Subject: Chile To Build Its First UFO Museum Chile to build its first UFO museum Source: Agencia EFE Date: 01/27/2003 08:33 Document Size: Very Short (212 words) Story Filed: Monday, January 27, 2003 8:33 AM EST ** Santiago, Jan 27, 2003 (EFE via COMTEX) -- Chile's first museum dedicated to UFOs will be built in the northern part of the country, where some 400 sightings of extraterrestrial spacecraft have been reported in the past 25 years. The museum will be built in the city of La Serena, located 472 kilometers (293 miles) north of Santiago, according to information released by the OvniVision Chile group and carried by a local news agency. The city plans to donate the land and building for the museum. Chile, a nation of 15.5 million, ranks fifth in the number of UFO sightings, after the United States, Peru, Brazil and Russia. The museum will house a photographic exhibit, a library, a video room, a conference room, other displays, a coffee shop and a gift shop. The idea for the museum, which is scheduled to open in mid-2003, arose when authorities from La Serena visited the United States and toured Roswell, New Mexico, where UFO aficionados believe an alien spacecraft crash-landed in 1947. La Serena residents hope to keep in touch with UFO experts from Roswell to exchange information and share experiences. mc/ad/hv http://www.efe.es ** Copyright (c) 2003. Agencia EFE S.A.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 28 Metal Spheres Over Yucatan From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 06:32:25 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 12:06:20 -0500 Subject: Metal Spheres Over Yucatan INEXPLICATA The Journal of Hispanic Ufology January 28, 2003 METAL SPHERES REPORTED OVER THE YUCATAN PENINSULA (MEXICO) SOURCE: Centro de Analisis de Fenomenos Espaciales , A.C. DATE: Friday, Jan. 17 2003 TIME: 11:30 p.m. LOCATION: Progreso, Yucatan, Mexico WITNESSES: Ms. Mar=EDa Barrera On Thursday, Jan. 23, 2003, we received a report from Ms. Mar=EDa Barrera, 42, a resident of Merida, Yucatan. She informed us that on January 17 of this year, she saw the following from the port of Progreso (30 km. north of this city) over the bridge that crosses the swamp leading to the harbor area: 40 glowing metallic spheres presenting a rising and descending motion, seemingly unaffected by the prevailing wind. This discards the possibility that they were balloons or flocks of birds. After a brief time period, the spheres disappeared toward the horizon. Skies were clear. The witness remarks that this is not the first time this event has happened. She said that last year, while the median strip was being expanded in the same location, both she and the construction company's workers saw more than 80 spheres executing a variety of movements over the same site. This report is of great interst. Members of the the CAFE group will visit with Ms. Barrera on Friday, Jan. 31 to look into the events. We will keep you informed. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Translation (C) 2003 IHU Special thanks to Ing. David Triay Lucatero.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 28 Re: 'Hangar 18'? From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 07:13:51 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 12:11:49 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Hangar 18'? >From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 07:32:10 +0000 >Subject: Re: 'Hangar 18'? >Morning Phil >>From: Philip Mantle <philip.mantle@eidosnet.co.uk> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 18:00:35 -0000 >>Subject: 'Hangar 18'? >>Can anyone point me in the direction of where I might obtain a >>copy on either video or DVD of the UFO movie 'Hangar 18'? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3308639717&category=30144 If you're looking for "Hanger 18," you may also be interested in the movie "Wavelength," about captured aliens at a secret airbase. They're both cornball movies, but entertaining. ===== >Mac Tonnies macbot@yahoo.com MTVI: http://www.mactonnies.com Transcelestial Ontology, Posthumanism and Theoretical Ufology Blog: http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com (updated daily)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 28 Re: Possible 1989 Abduction? - Tonnies From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 07:24:20 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 12:14:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Possible 1989 Abduction? - Tonnies >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 02:34:57 -0500 >Subject: Re: Possible 1989 Abduction? <snip> >>Rene Revilla had bought a piece of property very close to the >>East Everglades and had encountered differed type of phenomena >>in the area. Twice during the course of the summer a tall >>stranger who asked him different questions as to his purposes in >>the area visited him. The strange was described as a Nordic type >>man, very strong and tall, with immaculate features, and always >>wearing a gray suit and tie. He seemed to have some type of >>accent that the witness could not place. <snip> >Hello Albert, All, >Oy gevalt! >No wonder that people who report abductions aren't taken >seriously. How is this report even remotely related to >"abduction"? No mention of UFOs, UFO occupants, or of any >interaction between the witness and the aforementioned. >A tall man in a grey suit asking questions does not an >"abduction" make. Considering the fact that the witness wasn't >'taken' any where, I kind of resent the fact that a report such >as this is being labeled a 'possible' abduction case. It's not >even close. About the only thing that it might be compared to is >an MIB report. >Only in this case it's a "Man In Grey." <snip> Yeah, yeah, John, but you're not seeing the big picture here. See, this Man In Gray was, like, an agent of the Grays, all right? He was, like, scouting the area for _future_ abductions. Note that he had a weird accent. I mean, how much evidence do you need? ;-) ===== Mac Tonnies macbot@yahoo.com MTVI: http://www.mactonnies.com Transcelestial Ontology, Posthumanism and Theoretical Ufology Blog: http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com (updated daily)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 28 Re: Possible 1989 Abduction? - Rosales From: Albert Rosales <Garuda79@aol.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 10:35:15 EST Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 12:18:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Possible 1989 Abduction? - Rosales >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 02:34:57 -0500 >Subject: Re: Possible 1989 Abduction? >Hello Albert, All, >Oy gevalt! >No wonder that people who report abductions aren't taken >seriously. How is this report even remotely related to >"abduction"? No mention of UFOs, UFO occupants, or of any >interaction between the witness and the aforementioned. >A tall man in a grey suit asking questions does not an >"abduction" make. Considering the fact that the witness wasn't >'taken' any where, I kind of resent the fact that a report such >as this is being labeled a 'possible' abduction case. It's not >even close. About the only thing that it might be compared to is >an MIB report. >Only in this case it's a "Man In Grey." <snip> Hello All, John..... You are right, I somehow inserted the wrong case summary into the UpDates List... I meant to include a local abduction case that I have investigated. This one (Rene Revilla) in the East Everglades appears to be a report of a suspicious character. This is what happens when I tried to do to many things at the same time. Thank you Albert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 28 1989 Abduction Case From: Albert Rosales <Garuda79@aol.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 10:41:38 EST Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 12:21:30 -0500 Subject: 1989 Abduction Case This is the case that I have investigated, I will include only a brief summary. However, the other I think, remains interesting. Location. Miami Lakes, Dade County, Florida Date: late summer 1989 Time: night The witness, who lived near an old Nike missile base suddenly, woke up to a tremendous noise in her bedroom. The house felt like it was shaking and a very strong wind was coming in through the previously closed window. She was unable to move, even as something told her to look out the window. She was able to remember brief details of having apparently visited an underwater location where she along with other humans were made to cross what appeared to have been a pool of water that had steps leading out of it. After walking through a passage, a short heavy set being wearing some kind of peculiar outfit, appeared. This being spoke to the witness and the others, possibly telling them about future events, but were then told that they would be unable to remember the conversation. HC addition # 2041 Source: Personal Investigation Type: G
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 28 Re: Chile To Build Its First UFO Museum - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 11:16:48 -0800 Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 17:25:07 -0400 Subject: Re: Chile To Build Its First UFO Museum - Hatch >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 07:47:26 GMT >Subject: Chile To Build Its First UFO Museum >Chile to build its first UFO museum >Source: Agencia EFE >Date: 01/27/2003 08:33 >Document Size: Very Short (212 words) >Story Filed: Monday, January 27, 2003 8:33 AM EST >** >Santiago, Jan 27, 2003 (EFE via COMTEX) -- Chile's first museum >dedicated to UFOs will be built in the northern part of the >country, where some 400 sightings of extraterrestrial spacecraft >have been reported in the past 25 years. >The museum will be built in the city of La Serena, located 472 >kilometers (293 miles) north of Santiago, according to >information released by the OvniVision Chile group and carried >by a local news agency. >The city plans to donate the land and building for the museum. >Chile, a nation of 15.5 million, ranks fifth in the number of >UFO sightings, after the United States, Peru, Brazil and Russia. <snip> Here they go again. Chile is 5th after the US, Peru, Brazil and Russia? Who comes up with these rankings? The Peruvians, Brazilians and Russians? Maybe not. It looks like some news agency has not done their homework again. Best wishes - Larry Hatch
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 28 Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Houran From: Jim Houran <JHouran@siumed.edu> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 14:25:53 -0600 Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 17:53:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Houran >From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 18:25:08 -0800 >Subject: Re: Validating The Ramey Memo >>From: Jim Houran <JHouran@siumed.edu >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 12:05:01 -0600 >>Subject: Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Houran Hello List, There is too much emotional laden language and arguments from Rudiak to which to respond. I also expect civil exchanges and debates. 'Name calling' and 'label tossing' in its various guises does not become academicians, and in fact, it undermines the credibility of those applying the labels. I cannot speak for Kevin Randle, but I will leave this now non- constructive debate on this final note. It seems that Rudiak neither understands the rationale for my arguments on bias or the influence of preconceived notions, nor the implications of the various statistical findings in my JSE paper with Randle. Suffice it to say, we must agree to disagree. I strongly suggest to Rudiak, however, that he submit his study of the Ramey Memo to a peer-reviewed, scientific journal, as I have done. I will continue my work on the problem in the way I feel it should be handled, and I will disseminate the results (be they pro or con) in said forums. Jim Houran
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 28 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 5 From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 19:18:28 +0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 18:51:28 -0500 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 5 Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor. <Masinaigan@aol.com> ========================== UFO ROUNDUP Volume 8, Number 5 January 29, 2003 Editor: Joseph Trainor http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/ BIGFOOT SPOTTED IN NORTHUMBERLAND, UK "A team of full-time 'monster hunters' from the Exeter, England-based Centre for Fortean Zoology (named after an early chronicler of all things mysterious, Charles Fort--Nick Redfern) have obtained exciting evidence for the existence of a so-called British Bigfoot." "The four-man team, which is comprised of author and journalist Jonathan Downes, professional zoologists Richard Freeman and John Fuller, arrived at Bolam Lake, Northumberland," on Thursday, January 16, 2003 "to investigate recent reports of a large 'ape man' seen in the area by several independent witnesses." "In cooperation with the North-of-England-based Twilight Worlds Paranormal Research Group, Downes and his team have carried out an in-depth investigation of the incidents in question and have unearthed some startling new evidence." "On the evening of Saturday, 18 January (2003), Downes and three members of the Twilight Worlds Paranormal Research Group joined the ever-growing band of witnesses to the mysterious creature when they saw it, too." "Downes, whose monster-hunting quest began as a child in the 1960s, described the 'Beast of Bolam Lake' as being around 8 feet (2.4 meters) in height, 3 feet (0.9 meters) wide and dark in colour." "'We only saw it for a few seconds, then it vanished into the trees,' says Downes. 'This is the latest in a lengthening series of Big Hairy Man sghtings which have confounded zoologists and which has taken place in the last six months.' He adds, 'I have been a professional monster hunter for years, but the thing I saw has prompted me to completely reevaluate my world-view.'" "Thirty-three-year-old Freeman, who previously worked at Twycross Zoo, states, 'This is undoubtedly the most important Fortean zoological incident in the past half-century.'" "The events at Bolam Lake are part of a larger nationwide spate of similar reports that have included (Bigfoot) encounters at Cannock Chase, Staffordshire; Sussex; Sherwood Forest (Nottinghamshire--J.T.) of Robin Hood fame; Cambria; and Longridge Fell, Lancashire...a place reknowned for its 'monster sightings.'" "Hair samples acquired by the team at the site (Bolam Lake) of the mysterious encounter are to be examined by specialists in Scotland, England, the USA and Denmark." "Last year (2002) the Centre for Fortean Zoology attracted major media coverage when they solved the mystery of 'The Monster of the Mere.' Numerous people had reported sightings of a strange creature within Martin Mere (lake), Lancashire, England, that Downes and his team was able to identify as a large catfish." (Many thanks to Loren Coleman and Nick Redfern for this report.) (Editor's Comment: Welcome to Target: UK Week at UFO Roundup. Bigfoot wasn't the only oddity to turn up in the British Isles last week. Read on...) HOVERING UFO SIGHTED IN GLOUCESTERSHIRE, UK A strange hovering light was seen by residents of the Forest of Dean, near Gloucester, UK, but "they did not know what it was." The stationary light "was seen over Harrow Hill, near Cinderford, during the early hours of Tuesday," January 21, 2003. "Steven Taylor, 39, one of the residents who saw the light at 12:30 a.m., described the light as 'very brilliant.'" "'It was like the light of an airplane, but nothing like a helicopter, and it had no sound. I have no idea what it was, and I couldn't hope to describe it. It was strange!' said Elizabeth Fletcher, 64," another local eyewitness. "She added, 'It was a very strange pulsating light.'" "'I thought that something had entered my house, or that it was the police helicopter,' Robin Cole said, adding that" the UFO "looked like 'two brilliant planets that could be seen at the present moment.'" (See the newspaper This Is Gloucestershire for January 22, 2003. Muito obrigado a Pedro Luz Cunha por eso caso.) HOW GREEN WAS MY UFO "Phil Hoyle of the UFO Investigations and Research Unit has been investigating reports of UFO sightings for 20 years and wants to hear from anyone who has seen anything strange in the night, or even daytime, sky." "Wales has a rich 'history' of UFO sightings, from the Roswell-type alleged crash of a flying saucer in the Berwyn Mountains in January 1974 to the most recent sighting by scores of people of two unknown objects flying over Swansea and the Gower in 1998." "Pembrokeshire, in particular, is considered a UFO hotspot with a rash of strange sightings in the mid-to- late 1970s." "Although a Milford Haven businessman, Glyn Edwards, has since admitted to taking a stroll in a silver suit at the time, many strange sightings are still unexplained, including a saucer-shaped object hovering near a school in Broad Haven." "Since the heady days of the mid-to-late 1970s, Pembrokeshire sightings, which some believe were linked to top secret defence bases in the county, have declined- -as, of course, has its military role." "However, only a few years ago, in 1997, there were several sightings of a mysterious triangular craft and unexplained balls of light over Cardigan Bay." "Mr. Hoyle, who holidays regularly in Pembrokeshire, is convinced that there is something out there and that governments know all about it." "He had his own UFO experience one evening while staying at Haroldston Wood in March 2000, where he and his wife saw a bright light of the same size and luminosity of the star Sirius moving slowly across the sky from west to east." "'I looked at the object through my binoculars and I could see a bright white sphere; then suddenly a small red object shot out of bottom left-hand side of the white sphere,' he said." "'The sphere carried on slowly towards Havorfordwest and disappeared below the horizon, but the small red object seemed to stay in the same place as it was ejected from. The small object darted horizontally over an approximate distance of 500 feet (150 meters); it moved in an eccentric zigzag manner from left to right.'" "He said too many people had similar experiences of UFOs and alien encounters for them to be dismissed out of hand." "'There's a lot of things happening, but they need to be looked at scientifically,' he said." "The powers that be are well aware that there is something out there. They also know that they have a technology beyond what we can only dream of.'" "The most famous Pembrokeshire sighting took place in February 1977 when 14 pupils at a Broad Haven primary school claimed to have seen a cigar-shaped spacecraft land in a field next to their playground just after lunch time." "Some of the children even claimed to have seen spacemen around the aircraft dressed in silvery grey." "When the headmaster asked them to draw what they had seen, he was astonished to find that the drawings were almost identical." "Further sightings in the county of glowing lights and spacemen poured in over the following months." (See the newspaper The Western Mail for January 18, 2003, "UFO hunter seeks sightings in Wales." Merci beaucoup a Robert Fischer pour cette article de journal.) UFOs FLY OVER A SEAPORT IN ARGENTINA "Once again the coastal city of Necochea," in Argentina's province of Buenos Aires, "has been visited by UFOs." "On Friday, January 17, 2003, Hugo Exequiel Reinoso, an electrical technician by trade, observed a strange light of considerable proportions from the door of his home at 10 p.m." "The object moved from south to east at a constant speed and velocity, stopping abruptly at a given point in the sky before changing course and heading north," towards Buenos Aires, the national capital. "The object was circular in shape, similar to an Argentinian 50-centavo piece, and could be made out clearly in the night sky. It made no noise whatsoever during the observation, which lasted approximately 15 seconds." "This UFO sighting can be added to one which occurred" in Necochea "a few days ago (Monday, January 13, 2003), when several people observed three large multi-colored orbs fly over the sea and the city." Necochea is on Argentina's South Atlantic shore approximately 144 kilometers (90 miles) southwest of Mar del Plata and about 320 kilometers (200 miles) due south of the city of Buenos Aires. (Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales y Guillermo Gimenez para eso informe.) UFOs SIGHTED NORTH OF SAO PAULO, BRAZIL Two UFO incidents were reported in recent weeks over Sampa, a cidade satelite (suburb) north of Sao Paulo, Brazil, the largest city in South America. On Sunday, January 12, 2003, eyewitness Roberto Pintucci reported, "The first occurrence happened at my house in Sampa. I was with my son and two of my friends when I saw the object pass overhead. We all saw a distinctive metallic disc that made no sound, and we all thought it was 'quite pretty.'" "One week passed, and on (Sunday) January 19, 2003, we saw a second object that was spherical and made of silver, hovering above a row of tall apartment houses here in Sampa. It hovered for several minutes, and then it disappeared. We are certain that this was not a ballon or a blimp off in the distance." "I saw it first," Roberto reported, "and it was one of many times we has seen such things here in Sampa. I used my binoculars to observe this daylight disc. However, I could not perceive anything more definite than its distinctive form. I know that I have truly seen a UFO." COUPLE SEES AN ORANGE UFO IN WISCONSIN On Tuesday, January 14, 2003, at 6:15 p.m., Steve A. reported, "Me and my wife were heading west on Highway 54 into Wisconsin Rapids (population 18,435), and I noticed an orange object in the sky followed by another one. I pointed it out to my wife and questioned what it was. I have no idea." "There were four dots in a straight line. When the fifth appeared, the first one faded. It was like this for about ten minutes, all the while heading north." "After the dots faded, there was like crystal dust floating and shimmering where the dots had been." "On Thursday, January 16, 2003, a lady called into the WYTE radio station. She had seen them that night over Pittsville, Wis. (population 866)." Wisconsin Rapids is located about 110 miles (176 kilometers) north of Madison, the state capital. Pittsville is on Highway 80 about 15 miles (25 kilometers) west of Wisconsin Rapids. (Many thanks to John Hoppe of UFO Wisconsin for this report.) THREE RED UFOs SPOTTED IN PUERTO RICO On Wednesday, January 15, 2003, Prof. Reinaldo Rios was outdoors at his home and "noticed strange lights approaching from the west. Looking toward the mountain of Sierra Bermeja Lajas here in Puerto Rico, I saw three intense red lights. They were hovering above the mountaintop. They were red and orange. They seemed to be 100 feet (30 meters) above the mountaintop." "These objects hovered for several minutes and then departed to the north. I phoned every radio station in my area, but I received no response about the sighting." (Email Form Report) From the UFO Files... 1902: SANDSTORM FROM BEYOND Just over a century ago, on Wednesday, January 22, 1902, the southwestern tip of UK was struck by an anomalous sandstorm. Red and yellowish grains of sand fell on Glamorganshire (Wales), Gloucestershire, Somerset, Dorset, Devon and Cornwall, literally across a weather front covering 50 miles (80 kilometers). "It will be seen that the dust fell over practically the whole of Cornwall, reappearing again at a few points in Somerset, the extreme south of Gloucester and Glamorgan," wrote Dr. H.R. Mill of 62 Camden Square, London, yet a few areas within the region were spared. "Nothing of the kind was noted at Barnstable, Taunton, Newton Abbott, Portland, or North Cadbury, near Wincanton." "A correspondent from the Western Morning News, writing from Bere Alston, says, 'A labourer here speaks of a light hail shower on Thursday last (January 23, 1902), which was accompanied by a dust fog. His account resembles the descriptions we have of those fine dust showers which, at a distance of 400 or 500 miles (640 to 800 kilometers) from the coast of Africa, envelop vessels in a thick fog.'" "Rev. J.A. Wix, of Quethwick, speaks of a washing hung out to dry on the night of the (January) 23rd being found next morning, 'splashed to such an extent by some yellowish 'mess' that all had to be re-washed,' while the cabbages were covered with a dust resembling Peruvian guano." "Mr. E.W. Waite, the Waterworks Engineer of the Barry Urban District Council, writes us---" "'The fall of rain ending on Thursday the (January) 23rd at 9 a.m. was a light one, only 0.03 inches, the wind very light from the W.N.W. ( west-northwest; my emphasis--J.T.) The deposit, like a very fine dust, coated the iron railings and fences with a salmon-pink colour. I was very much struck with some ordinary wire- netting (chainlink fence in the USA--J.T.) which appeared to have been painted with a brush. The deposit was particularly noticeable on Barry Island, although I found it to a lesser extent at Barry itself.'" "Earl Waldegrave, writing from Chewton Priory, to the Western Daily Press, says---" "'Wednesday the (January) 22nd was with us very warm, with wet mist, only measuring 0.02 inches of rain. Afterwards the glass and woodwork of the greenhouses and frames were covered with a rust-colored dust, which has left stains on the paint.'" "Sir Edward Fry, writing to Nature of February 6th (1902), from Falland, near Bristol, says---'My men here noticed on Thursday last, the (January) 23rd instant, that the leaves, glasses of the (window) frames and iron- work of the gates were smeared with a reddish mud; one hedge in particular they describe as almost covered with the substance, and the pinafores of a cottager's children which were hanging out to dry were so stained with the deposit that they had to be re-washed. When the substance fell no one here knows. nor is it clear whether it fell as dust or mud; from the first way in which it has attached itself to the iron-work, I should think that it fell as mud.'" What's the big deal? conventional scientists would ask. The red dust that fell on Cornwall obviously came from the Sahara desert of North Africa. Or maybe from south-central Spain. But the actual weather reports of the period argue against such a conclusion. As Dr. Mill pointed out, "An examination of the Daily Weather Charts shows that, from the (January) 20th to the 23rd (1902), the weather of the south of England was controlled by a high pressure area, the centre of which lay over the west of France and the Bay of Biscay until the (January) 23rd, when it moved a little eastward. The wind over the whole of the west and south of England was westerly, with a southerly component, and light; and the rainfall was very slight, a little snow lying in some places." However, in those areas hit hardest by the enigmatic red dust, the wind had no "southerly component." It was blowing from the west-northwest. In short, the prevailaing wind was blowing across the Irish Sea over Cornwall, Devon and Somerset, carrying tons of red dust from...where? There are no deserts in Ireland to account for the red dust. And it certainly didn't come from snow-covered Iceland and Greenland. All of which leaves us with an intriguing question: Where did the red dust that covered the southwestern UK during the early morning hours of January 23, 1902 come from? (See Handbook of Unusual Natural Phenomena, compiled by William R. Corliss, The Sourcebook Project, Glen Arm, Maryland, 1997, pages 512 and 512. See also Symon's Monthly Meteorological Magazine for March 1902, "Dust Showers in the South-West of England," 37: 1-4.) Well, that's it for this week. Join us in seven days for more UFO, Fortean and paranormal news from around the planet Earth, brought to you by "the paper that goes home--UFO Roundup." See you next time. UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2003 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post news items from UFO Roundup on their websites or in news groups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue in which the item first appeared. E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com> or use the Sighting Report Form at: http://www.ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Website comments: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> UFOINFO: http://www.ufoinfo.com Official Archives of UFO Roundup, AUFORN Australian UFO Reports and Experiences, UFO + PSI Magazine, plus archives of Filer's Files, Oz Files, UFO News UK and UFO Sightings Italia. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- UFO Roundup is only sent to subscribers. If you wish to unsubscribe or feel you have received the bulletin in error, please write to: <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> With the subject: Unsubscribe UFO Roundup. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 29 Bizarre '89 Report From Uzbekistan From: Albert Rosales <Garuda79@aol.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 16:21:26 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 07:47:27 -0500 Subject: Bizarre '89 Report From Uzbekistan Location. Badamzar, Kashkadar'yinskaya region, Uzbekistan Date: October 22 1989 Time: noon Several local residents observed the landing of a cube-shaped object, square in form & fiery red in color; it was approximately 2 x 1 m, with 2 additional cylindrical protrusions on the corners. On the bottom of the object there was a larger cylinder with rings. The ribs at the bottom of the object were placed in a cross-like arrangement. Two aliens were visible through the window of the craft. A third alien exited the object and walked towards the village. The alien was about 2 m in height, with a flat body and no neck, long arms reaching down below his knees. The head was almost bald with small patches of gray hair jutting out near the ears. The color of the entity's skin was dark, almost black or dark gray. Instead of a nose the humanoid had small openings. The clothing appeared to be made out of leather, on the chest there was an emblem resembling a "red cross" or two diagonal red lines that crossed in the middle. The alien made an attempt to abduct a local woman (Mrs. Gulasal Khalikova) and her son Muhsinzhon Khalikov. Mrs. Khalikova yelled in her language: "Don't touch my son! The alien replied: "We will take him". She replied: No! I will not let you! in turn the alien replied: " We will take your son for two years, if you want we will take you too." Mrs. Khalikova refused to go and in a panic both her and son ran away from the alien. A number of her neighbors witness the abduction attempt. Many others saw the object on the ground. HC addendum Source: Anton Anfalov, Ukraine, quoting Hodzhiakbar Shiy'khov UFO in Uzbekistan Type: B & G?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 29 Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Borraz From: Manuel Borraz <maboay@teleline.es> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 23:24:22 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 07:53:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Borraz I thought that it would be interesting to know what Eric Maillot had to say. Some days ago, he wrote the following answer (I thank John Harney for the corrections in the final English version). Manuel ---------------------------------------------------------------- >From: Remy Le Chevalier <remy.lechevalier@cp.finances.gouv.fr> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 10:13:43 +0100 >Subject: Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? I read English but don't have complete mastery of it and I am not willing to enter a long debate on the Trans case, which I find of no more real interest than any other banal close encounter - French or not - with only one witness. But I hate to see the enormous collective work done on this case (it has taken more than ten years) dismissed in a few lines, on the basis of such ill-informed statements as those presented by Mr. Le Chevalier : >The 'Cercle Zetetique' is the most extreme French 'skeptics' >organization. It doesn't mean they are necessarily wrong, but it >is clear that whatever they say derives from their a-priori that >1) science has discovered everything that matters ; >2) there's no science done outside university thinking. Remy Le Chevalier, who I don't know personally nor even by name among French ufologists, talks about "a priori". I will demonstrate here, in the "extreme French skeptics'" way, that his own words show a great ufological ignorance and a good deal of _his_ personal "a priori " (due to his UFO beliefs?): 1. the report on Trans en Provence is not authored by "extreme French skeptics" from the Cercle Zetetique (of which Eric Maillot is indeed a member) but by SERPAN, a ufological association whose president was Michel Figuet. No one could pretend that my friend Michel Figuet, author of a big dossier about close encounters in France, was an out-and-out rationalist since he died convinced of having seen a UFO (a case often cited by J. Vallee!). It was this same Michel Figuet who encouraged everyone to study in depth the case of Trans which seemed very doubtful to him. 2. Many people not belonging to the CZ, from France (and abroad!), agree with the conclusions of the SERPAN dossier (a hundred pages!), which was a _collective work done by several ufologists not belonging to the CZ_ (including a scientist member of SOBEPS!). Among them, Eric Maillot included, very few reject the possibility that real unidentified objects sightings could have taken (or could take) place. Nevertheless, I think that Trans, the so-called most solid case, is hardly a 'ufological gold bar' and that those who still consider it as the most solid case demonstrate : - either how weak all the other officially or unofficially investigated French cases are: - or how great is their credulity with regard to affairs that they haven't verified or studied in depth themselves*1. In short, Mr. Le Chevalier's method here is the "intention process" ("To get rid of your dog, accuse him of having rabies!", as we say in France). >As for the hoax theory, its main problem is that it doesn't >explain the trace left on the ground and the modifications in >the soil. Remy Le Chevalier can not have read the CZ report in full (nor the more extensive one by the SERPAN either). He would have read that the trace is explained as a result of tyres rubbing on the ground (a rolling UFO?) and that the alleged effects on the plants reported by Professor Bounias owe their existence just to: - the influence on the overall curves by just one of the samples (E1), the only one that was very much altered (according to Prof. Bounias) as noted "by simple visual inspection". - methodological procedures that were incoherent _and_ noncompliant with those in use by GEPAN (for comparison, read the other GEPAN technical notes dealing also with cases with traces and sampling !). - other human factors that it would be too long to expound here, which led Prof. Bounias and SEPRA to false conclusions not supported by the data. Some examples follow: a] presence of a trace _coherent with the testimony_ b] _trace confirming the UFO_ c] scientific proof of a _maximal effect located just where the UFO was supposedly seen_ d] scientific proof of an _effect triggered exactly on the day that the UFO was supposedly seen (not before or after)_. No one will ever _prove_ that these 4 points are true from the so-called scientific data of GEPAN or Prof. Bounias. And the only testimony is dubious. In short, the Trans case is quite worthless. >The usual explanation was that the person who did the >analysis, Michel Bounias, was somehow biased. Some scientists are now studying the data of Prof. Bounias. I hope that they will finally write a true scientific paper regarding the real importance of his work and conclusions, putting an end to the controversy once for all. >If I'm not wrong, the very serious SEPRA, Clearly, Remy Le Chevalier doesn't know the SEPRA work at all since he labels it as "very serious". It's a myth! Many inquiries done by this agency are biased and shoddy. Its public statements are often false* (and even contradictory to the data contained in its own reports*), sometimes voluntarily distorted (for example, the _radar-visual_ case of commandant Duboc (1994), just a _sheer assembly of unrelated events_ made by SEPRA*), in order to guarantee the existence of UFOs and hence the survival of this service, SEPRA (of which it is now said that it could disappear within months?). UFOs are not scientifically more solid in France than in the USA or in Chile. It's an illusion ! Cordially, Eric Maillot 1* In France, most known writers or ufologists still believe that the trace is a neat and complete ring, which is false. But they are considered experts on this case and other ones. Others frequent foreign forums to pass for experts, while they are not considered so in France. 2* Proof available by request erick.maillot@wanadoo.fr ----------------------------------------------------------------
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 29 Laughlin Conference From: Philip Mantle <philip.mantle@eidosnet.co.uk> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 18:02:16 -0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 07:56:11 -0500 Subject: Laughlin Conference I just wanted to let the List members know that I'll be speaking at the Laughlin, Nevada Conference next week on the subject of Alien Abductions In The UK. This presentation will be based on our book 'Without Consent'. If any List members are attending the conference please drop by the UFO Magazines (UK) booth and say hello, as I'll be travelling over with them. Regards, Philip Mantle. philip.mantle@eidosnet.co.uk www.beyondpublications.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 29 Betty Hill? From: Philip Mantle <philip.mantle@eidosnet.co.uk> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 18:03:47 -0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 07:57:14 -0500 Subject: Betty Hill? Is there anyone on the List who knows or lives near Betty Hill. I have a few photos I'd like to send her and the quickest way is via e-mail of course. If you can help please respond direct to: philip.mantle@eidosnet.co.uk Thanks, Philip Mantle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 29 CI: New 'Blog'! From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 17:33:48 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 08:03:29 -0500 Subject: CI: New 'Blog'! Cydonian Imperative 1-28-03 New "Blog"! "Posthuman Blues," my new weblog (or "blog") is updated daily and contains various thoughts on Mars and ETI alongside assorted thoughts on other matters entirely. Contains brief excerpts from my forthcoming Cydonia/SETI book (Pocket Books, early 2004). This is more of an online journal than a formal presentation, but it's open to the public. To visit, click here: http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 29 Re: Expect More Washington Military Overflights - From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 00:19:45 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 08:04:38 -0500 Subject: Re: Expect More Washington Military Overflights - >From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 05:35:45 -0400 >Subject: Expect More Washington Military Overflights >For those living in the Washington DC area. There will be likely >many military overflights in that area ddue to an extended area >restriction over DC. >See following. >--- >Flight Operations Prohibited During President's State of the >Union Address >All general aviation flight operations are prohibited - no IFR, >no VFR - within a 30 nautical-mile radius of the U.S. Capital >building and below 18,000 feet AGL from 8-11 p.m. EST on January >28 for the President's State of the Union address before both >houses of Congress. >NOTAM 3/0642 prohibits all flights other than TSA-approved >military, law enforcement, and medical/lifeguard aircraft (and >those parts 121,125, and 129 operations that meet TSA >requirements). >TSA reiterates that the consequences of violating this airspace >could be extremely serious. The actual implementation of serious consequences is probably a sidewinder missile, or rounds from a 20MM cannon..... Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 29 Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 00:08:29 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 08:07:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Hatch >From: Wm. Michael Mott <mottimorph@earthlink.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 22:46:59 -0600 >Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs >Hello to the List, >I'm Wm. Michael Mott. I was led to check out the group archives >due to someone mentioning a cross-post from me which was made >here back in October. >The information presented here tends to be excellent and well- >researched, so I decided to formally join, instead of just >checking out the web-archives. >Back in October of 02, a cross-post of mine, following some >assertions I had made on the fantasticreality group at >Yahoo!Groups, apparently raised some hackles (or was it >perceived as some sort of personal threat?). Since I've but >recently been made aware of this, I thought it only proper to >respond. >I believe the original reply to my contention that many or most >long-range UFO flight-paths, if carefully examined, tend to >follow a roughly north-south or south-north pattern, met with >some heady skepticism. Obviously this isn't to say that all UFOs >follow this pattern, but this quite often seems to be the case, >and UFOs which are following this path tend to veer off on "side >trips," even according to posts I've seen right here on this >List. Hello Wm. Michael: I'm going to have to snip a lot, and cut to the chase here. Nobody wants to sift thru long agonizing arguments. I first heard of this North-South assertion from Kelly Peterborough on this list, as follows: >I just read on another List that it has been 'verified' >(no sources cited) that the 'majority'(no percentage given) >of UFOs flight-paths take a north to south or south to >north direction. >My dear Larry H., is this something you have kept track >of in your database? Anybody else have any comments? >And if the above is true, any speculation as to why? So, I kinda got invited in. My statistics (see below) didn't support the N-S claim at all, something of a disappointment. When I wrote the C-language routine to search these sorts of things out, I was hoping for _some_ sort of findings I could put on the lists. Asking Kelly for more info., I learned: >Mike Mott posted it on his 'fantasticreality' Yahoo >Groups List when someone questioned something about the hollow >earth theory. >He was the one who said the above about the flight >patterns of UFOs, which I gather hollow-earthers believe means >that UFOs are from the inside of the earth and enter and exit >via the holes in the North and South Poles, thus the North- >South, South-North patterns, comprende vous? Sumtin like that. >I didn't ask Mike what his source was - thought I'd rather hear >from you because of your database. But if you and Errol don't >mind, I'd like to post this to his List. I responded with some measured sarcasm, especially in response to the Hollow Earth business! Laying that aside for now, in due deference to hundreds of years of hard work in Physics and Geology done by the brightest people in those fields and others, I turn to the North-South (N-S) hypothesis. My *U* Database catalogs what I hope is the best collection of anomalous sightings of what appear to be artificial and controlled craft, not of human origin. Very definitely filtered, and for darned good reasons, I do not knowingly list sightings of what appear to be natural, mundane or manmade objects. Again, one statistical routine in the *U* software is a UFO trajectories data dump. I wrote this in years ago. Here are some numbers. Out of a total (today 29JAN03) of 12639 *U* listings, 29.5% or 5296 sightings had some indication of direction of travel. Some cases had UFOs departing in multiple directions, so totals will exceed 5296. The Trajectories routine scans the Synopsis field looking for final directions of travel, denoted >N, >SE, >>SSW and the like. Two arrow brackets indicate high speed. >N, >S, >E and >W are simply counted during number crunching. >NNE and >NNW are "approximately North", and counted as "North". Similarly, >SSE and >SSW count as "South". >ENE and >ESE count as East. >WNW and >WSW are West. Note that >NE, >SE, >NW and >SW are not counted at all. These are right at the 45-degree cutoff points, thus useless for tracking longitudinal versus latitudinal departure. My printout divides up the counts by Continents, and by decades. Nowhere do the N-S (or reverse) counts exceed the E-W counts (or reverse), to any statistically meaningful degree, say 10% or more. The closest _any_ of these numbers come to an anomaly, was in the 1950s, when West outnumbered East by 588 to 465. Interesting, but irrelevant here. Bottom line for all continents and decades: North South East West 1771 1793 1685 1815 Adding North to South for N-S (either polar direction) and likewise East + West for E-W flights, I get Polar (Longitudinal) = N + S = 3564. -and- (Latitudinal) = E + W = 3500. Yes, there is a slight N-S excess, but few statisticians would pay much attention to it. A deviation of 64 cases out of 7,064 is 64/7096 = 0.00906 = 0.906 percent. This is about 1 1/2 standard deviations for a sample size of 7064 cases. That in turn could be any number of things; maybe I didn't filter out enough satellites. I am at the mercy of people who see UFOs all the time you know, and cannot filter them out unless they admit it. These numbers are come directly from my data, painstakingly compiled over nearly 20 years, from these sources: http://www.larryhatch.net/USOURCE.html Now you have my numbers, and my sources (again). Could you kindly provide us with your statistics and sources? I would like to see your data supporting the claim that the 'majority' of UFOs flight-paths take a north to south, or south to north direction. You can even borrow the odd 64 cases (0.9%) I provided, but I already know about that. RSVP - Larry Hatch
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 29 Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Taylor From: Barry Taylor <stingray@nor.com.au> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 07:35:07 +1100 Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 08:12:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Taylor >From: Wm. Michael Mott <mottimorph@earthlink.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 22:46:59 -0600 >Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs <snip> >Obviously, variations of NNE/NNW and SSE/SSW would fit within >the north-south pattern. These types of paths are apparently >still recorded often: >http://lion.nor.com.au/users/stingray/1998.htm >14.02.98 Gold Coast, QLD 0545hrs (DD) > >On 14th February, at 5:45 AM, on the Gold Coast, Queensland a >large black disc shape object was sighted..... The disc-shaped >object heading due north flew on a straight and level course. >Its speed was slower than a commercial aircraft but too fast for >a balloon since there was only a 10 knots breeze SSW to NNE. <snip> The web page listed above is incorrect, should be.. http://www.nor.com.au/users/stingray However, the page 1998.htm is no longer installed due to a recent major web site overhaul. And yes, I did observe the UFO activity as described in the previous e-mail. I was fortunate enough to have witnessed two very intense UFO "Flaps" during 1997 & 1998. There was continuous UFO "Wave" activity over my location, and up and down the whole New South Wales coast of Australia. The activity was actually Australia wide. Between 1996 and Dec. 1999, there was UFO Disc activity that I constantly observed once aware of it happening. This type of UFO abruptly finished its activity at this time, and has not been observed in such intensity since. I have made it a special study of mine, and a constant nightly skywatch program has been very rewarding for my recognition of yearly UFO "Wave" activity. This has been recorded on video. I can assure you that the Disc activity that I witnessed, was NOT made by us. It was from off this Earth. I witnessed some amazing things during this period of time, some only 40 feet from me. I got a close look at 7 golden discs in "V" formation just over the roof of the house next door. I could see the surface of the objects and can describe it in detail. All this specific information will be added to my new web site soon. I did notice, that most of the high altitude UFO fly overs followed an approximate North - South (&visa-versa) flight path. I (with witness) had a 50 minute daytime UFO sighting June 1999. Approx. 100 objects all moving South to North. I feature this amazing event on my video... "UFO Down - Under" http://home.manyrivers.aunz.com/stingray/video~1.htm It is from my personal observations of UFO's that I have learned a great deal about them. If you read through my web site, you will get an insight into what I have seen. Yet there is much more to be added. Barry Taylor Personal UFO Web Site (Est.1996) http://home.manyrivers.aunz.com/stingray/ Original site - http://www.nor.com.au/users/stingray/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 29 Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Morton From: Dave Morton <Marspyrs@aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 05:15:53 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 08:24:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Morton >From: Jim Houran <JHouran@siumed.edu> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 14:25:53 -0600 >Subject: Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Houran >>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 18:25:08 -0800 >>Subject: Re: Validating The Ramey Memo >>>From: Jim Houran <JHouran@siumed.edu >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 12:05:01 -0600 >>>Subject: Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Houran <snip> >I will continue my work on the problem in the way I feel it should be >handled, and I will disseminate the results (be they pro or con) >in said forums. >Jim Houran Will that dissemination include the raw data, such as score sheets, supporting the pro or con results? Dave Morton
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 29 UFO-Spotters Make Beeline For Loch Ness From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 08:35:03 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 08:35:03 -0500 Subject: UFO-Spotters Make Beeline For Loch Ness http://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/news.asp?storyvar=5942 UFO-Spotters Make Beeline For Loch Ness "VISITORS" from another world are creating an out-of-season tourist invasion at Loch Ness. After the Inverness Courier revealed unexplained lights had been seen _ and filmed _ on successive nights in the sky over Drumnadrochit, UFO research groups and individual enthusiasts from around Scotland announced plans to head to the area to carry out their own investigations. Former Royal Navy submariner Lee Close, of the Anglo-Scottish UFO Research Agency, was one of the investigators who contacted the Courier to appeal for more information on the sightings. Mr Close, whose group is currently researching 17 UFO sightings in the Fife and Dundee area, now wants to investigate the Loch Ness sighting. "Some of the people involved with me have 20 to 30 years' experience of sightings," he revealed. "All details we receive are treated confidentially and we will approach other groups to help if we need them. It is the same level of service you would get if you went to a professional investigator. "At the end of the day, people want to know what they are seeing," he added. Another UFO devotee linked the Drumnadrochit sighting with a UFO spotted in the English Midlands. "They have made contact _ it's about the first human clone," he claimed. Unfortunately for alien-seekers, a local expert believes he has a solution to the mysterious lights which is _ literally _ more down to Earth. John Dijkslag, who has a PhD in astronomy and lives in the Croy area, is certain the lights have nothing to do with extra- terrestrial visitors and instead owe their origins to the geology of the Great Glen faultline. "It's a light show by Mother Earth," Mr Dijkslag told the Courier. "It is a geographical-related phenomenon. It's the result of stress propagated by a fault line." He is convinced the explanation for the lights is Tectonic Strain Theory (TST). This involves the release of energy as a result of stress along geological faultlines, a phenomenon Mr Dijkslag has investigated in the Netherlands. "In comparison with the faultlines present in the part of Holland where we did our research, this faultline is enormous. I believe it's one of the longest faults known to this planet," Mr Dijkslag said. "There is a strain through the faultline which is compatible with an elastic band. It could be caused by volcanic activity, but water can cause it too and a lot of water has gone down there in the last few months. "The light is actually highly charged electric energy. From the work I have done, the lights originate in the faultline in the middle of the loch." Similar lights were seen above the Kessock Bridge in December 1990. Mr Dijkslag now plans to give a lecture on the phenomenon in Drumnadrochit Village Hall. editorial@inverness-courier.co.uk [UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 29 Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Houran From: Jim Houran <JHouran@siumed.edu> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 07:46:23 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 12:48:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Houran >From: Dave Morton <Marspyrs@aol.com> >Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 05:15:53 EST >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Subject: Re: Validating The Ramey Memo >>From: Jim Houran <JHouran@siumed.edu> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 14:25:53 -0600 >>Subject: Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Houran <snip> >>I will continue my work on the problem in the way I feel it should be >>handled, and I will disseminate the results (be they pro or con) >>in said forums. >Will that dissemination include the raw data, such as score >sheets, supporting the pro or con results? Hi, Dave: Thanks for your question. The dissemination I have in mind consists of two parts. One will be a shorter publication in a scientific journal, while the other will be a comprehensive formal report, i.e., a monograph (containing an Appendix of all raw data, etc.) that will serve as a supplement to the shorter paper for interested parties. I should make one final clarification re: what I think constitutes pro or con results. In my opinion, any result is a positive result if it clarifies an issue in an empirical manner. If the results of continued research on the Ramey Memo show that it is not a "smoking gun" then that is extremely important information to have. If it does turn out to be a "smoking gun" of sorts, then obviously the field will have breakthrough data to help make sense of what the Roswell debris was. My own opinion on the subject has been made quite clear in my past papers in JSE, specifically I am undecided but generally suspicious of the multiple official explanations. Finally, it is strange to me that some people on this List interpret my JSE paper as a "skeptical" work. I personally don't mind being branded a skeptic, as all researchers that strive for objectivity should be properly skeptical of any hypothesis or theory that does not have supporting data. However, in the JSE paper Kevin Randle and I concluded that some words can be read reliably by people from the general public irrespective of a priming context. Thus, that paper expressed hope that the issue of the Ramey Memo can be resolved with continued work by independent analysts. Jim Houran
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 29 Re: Corso From: Colin Bennett <colin@bennettc25.fsnet.co.uk> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 16:26:53 -0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 13:03:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Bennett >From: Josh Goldstein clearlight@t-online.de >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 01:28:48 +0100 >Subject: Re: Corso -- Goldstein >>From: John Rimmer jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 00:30:24 +0000 >>Subject: Re: Corso - Rimmer >>>From: Andy Roberts aj.roberts@blueyonder.co.uk >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 08:47:34 -0000 >>>Subject: Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Roberts Hi all List Bears, First, let me inform the hundreds of good folk who have contacted me in recent days that the Panzerben computers have been sabotaged and so many letters from scores of List Lurker Bears have not been answered. The problem has been that hackers and disbelievers in the Easter Bunny and Father Christmas aim for myself and my A Team of Barham State Forces like flies go for bad meat. That's a simile that Jan and Dick would like. Worm, Bar Code, Fetish and Fanflesh virus-bombs parachute in through the roof almost by the hour. Someone sure likes us somewhere. Judging from this popular reaction, like poor Corso, we must have inadvertently put several rounds though several headquarters somewhere. The full Panzerben A Team are now engaged in building a rack- mounted super-computer assembly from modified mainframe boards and chips (by the way, we fry the inbuilt NSA signal patch amongst other things) that I swear will be sufficient to defeat Cheltenham GCHQ and the NSA combined. I added recently a Siberian Wolfhound (Alice) to my collection of pit bull mastiffs to greet those hackers who prefer knives and hammers to penetrate the security fence of Barham State Forces as distinct from fiendishly clever viral forms. The House of Panzerben at sharkley@panzerben.fsworld.co.uk now open once more for ideological business, but if any problems occur, we can be contacted on good old well-fire-walled colin@bennettc25.fsnet.co.uk any time should anyone need solace, advice, or inspirations such as are offered to a certain Mr. Josh Goldstein, discussed below. The Bad Man himself spends these mid-winter mornings in the Holland Park Teahouse with my mastiffs, my distant bodyguard, and a volume of the Admiralty Book of Wireless Signal for 1930. I use this as a techno-mantra prior to a meditation on an uncertain translation of key passages in the Randle/Friedman dialogues, that I do not intend to publish yet. For light relief, I leave these encoded strands of the purest postmodern protein for a moment and listen to an orchestra rehearsing La Boheme in the manor house grounds of old Lord Holland, a distant relation of the Bad Man. As Rudolfo and Mimi soar into late 19th century ecstacy the strutting peacocks stop and turn their heads as all nature listens to these chords of infinity, I turn to a fragmented shred of viral programming that I know contains the signature of the being who shut down the Panzerben computer. She (I think it is a she) belongs to a group of vile viral perpetrators, probably professionals by their keystrokes as it were. I have a lead on them of course. They know that. I say professionals because like IBM carved on atomic structures for a party trick, these Kilroys leave signatures of names taken from the 1914 code lists of Yardley's old Black Chamber as a party trick. They also leave certain much earlier Hollerith punched- card codes, and also 1950s comptometer codes, the comptometer being a kind of Babbage Difference Engine plus 12 volt relays. They do this knowing that I am perhaps the last person in this world who would know and remember such things as others remember a certain track of Frank Sinatra, or a picture of Old Mother Goose. I remember the codes Marti, or Brockway, Sloane-Duployan or Orillana as others remember the Gettysberg Address, Beavis and Butthead, and the Black Birds of 1929. Such is my peculiar destiny, folks. Some say I was not designed or built to know what is on at the local Odeon. Yes, I suspect Orillana. Again, I surmise that she is a woman. There is a certain lightness of touch about the twisted logic of her code-wrecking procedures. She uses image-organisation as a basis for her attack. Most associative. Very feminine, and most unique. Orillana is not a linear person. I tell you List Bears, this Orillana is super AI, and she is after my cerebral ass. She used images to wreck the Booleans, who turn and eat their tails. She uses imagistic analogues. In digital form of course, but can you beat that? Presumably after ten lifetimes of decoding and encoding one another, Orillana and myself will fall battling together in cyberspace just as Holmes and Professor Moriarty fell to their deaths over the Reichenbach Falls. Or did they? Everyone has a key-signature as the old decoders and cryptanalyists used to say, and Orillana (who is now a Ramey Memorandum in my mind, but becoming more clear by the hour), has left hints that she knows the work of Dr. John Manly, Yardley's assistant. As a 14-year party trick, Manly produced with Edith Rickert the best text of Chaucer's The Canterbury Tales from no less than 80 bad texts spanning five centuries. Such minds were indeed needed to tackle the appalling complexity of the 424- letter Witzke cryptogram. But I digress. Now the said Mr. Goldstein in a recent post called me a colon. I like to think that my reply, entitled Fourth Day Like Four Months of Absence (below) is even more dynamic and interesting than those posts from me that cause dearest Richard Hall and our Jan and others to go into frantic automatic denial mode. No, this is postmodern creativity this is. I predict that Fourth Day Like Four Months of Absence will be the start of not only a very interesting cyber-literary experiment, but a new postmodern genre altogether. Jan will love all this, Jan will. This prototype postmodern piece will be mounted on http://www.thewhyfiles.net as Combat Diary Supplement Number 1, where it will undergo intensive redesign and redevelopment. There, Mr. Goldstein will be constantly re-created in terms of a kind of cyberloop built of pure information, and passed on to a 1000 search engines. He will become a virtual enemy that like Orillana, I will hunt through time itself, like the sequences in the film Highlander. Rather interesting, List Bears? No? Well at least its better than the stale comedy of the separation of the "false" from the "real" and the "truth" from "lies" and "illusion from reality" performances. The phrase "the separation of the facts from the fictions" is the worst. Its repetition will result in the destruction of the entire human race. As distinct from that iron-age rattletrap called Ufology, in the older more sophisticated cultures such as Arts, Philosophy and Literature no one talk about facts and fictions. If they do, they are beheaded by their Neighbourhood Watch in the local Mechanics Institute. Only the footplate men called scientists believe in such things in an age of Michael Jackson, George Bush, and Y2K. In any case, science can never form the basis of a liberal education. This List shows that the reference base for the UFO experience is far too narrow and singular for the absurd and bizarre nature of the phenomenon. Ufology must go postmodern. It is in crisis because it cannot solve the Corso and MJ12 problem just as pre-Newtonian physics could not deal with acceleration and the kinematics of motion. Of this more later, so watch out! Meantime, the aliens arrive. They carry out an autopsy. But, ironically, they find that we all died not from war or disease but of a factspiel and docubox AIDS based on various versions of the phrase "separation of the facts from the fiction". These phrases are already being used by ivory pirates in Africa to stop herds of charging hippos and rhinos in the tracks, killed through instant annihilating boredom. Here is yet another postmodern element. The original text of Fourth Day Like Four Long Months of Absence as pasted on UfoUpdates@virtuallystrange.net will remain of course as an archive there available as a bedrock reference base to seed the many transformations Even Web crawlers take time to reconstitute the digits, and after reading Fourth Day Like Four Long Months of Absence, Mr. Goldstein himself will surely feel himself re-forming perhaps thousands of time a minute through the pure information zone of cyberspace. He will become a thing of suggestions and whispers, he will have a super-self of inferences, intuitions, and nostalgia mysterieux. This whole endeavour will enable investigators to insert what is called reality as vector in a system of n-dimensional approximations. What is reality in this instance? Mr. Goldstein's original anger at poor Panzerben. This was the butterfly's wing that changed the weather over the South of England and became Fourth Day Like Four Long Months of Absence. And of course there is yet another thing to be considered. Mr. Goldstein will comment again, methinks. This will be a splendid opportunity for new cyber-art originals from the thewhyfiles team, and my Barham State Forces A Team from the Portobello Road. Every single time Mr. Goldstein attacks, we will load these updated overlays onto the mainframe of Mr. Goldstein's virtual self. As I write, Mr. Josh Goldstein's typically antiseptic Danish gloom is being taken by a thousand web crawlers into infinity. He can create a new life indeed many lives by means of the new changing cyber-identities we have created for him. The only thing we do not have here at Barham State Forces is a picture of Mr. Goldstein to accompany the text of Fourth Day Like Four Months of Absence. Perhaps he would like to send us one, or should any List Bear have one, please let me have a copy together with any other information about this Danish question mark who hopped on the List from nowhere. For his information, I have never seen my colon. But as far as masturbation goes, when Mr. Goldstein sees Fourth Day Like Four Months of Absence, in all its illicit glory, he will recognize that this prime piece of auto-eroticism from me is the first pure UFO cyber-literary artform. He can ring his mum and tell her that not only has he been portrayed, he has been immortalized. Welcome Mr. Goldstein to History. What am I doing this for? I am doing this as a way of investigating the concepts of both atonement and forgiveness. It's my way of telling you, Mr. Goldstein, that not only can I rebuild you, I can forgive you, I forgive myself. Everybody is forgiven. It's perhaps a strange way of doing this, but it is only to be expected from someone who reads The Admiralty List of Wireless Signals for 1930 over breakfast and one who tries to crack the Randle/Friedman dialogues as quite another Friedman altogether many years ago tried try to crack the Voynich Manuscript. Synchronicity, Stanton? But how did I meet Mr. Josh Goldstein? Well you see Bears, judging from the amount of private e-mail I am getting, I seem to have been chosen as the Agony Aunt of the UFO Updates list. The walking wounded make their way to my e- mail casualty clearing station like creatures from the Night of The Living Dead. Leafing through the List at random, I came across this gone cat (as they used to say) from Denmark, Josh Goldstein (I don't think he's Andy Roberts in disguise, but the thought did pass my mind). No, this mensche is something else. He is straight out of a Danish version of a "Carry on Researching" film is this macaroon. I scent medicine here, the conspiratorial bag of "experimental" science, but since he sounds Jewish (bless him), I think frankly I think he aught to seriously consider his options and phone his mother immediately for both solace and advice. So, as Jan Aldrich says, here goes: >There are basic differences in people regarding their >boundary spectra of fantasy and fact. There are differences between people regarding beliefs? What a remarkable thought. >There are qualitative psychological tests for >such. You have a quickie test for reality, sir? Well, I never did! I would write to the Nobel Prize Committee immediately. You have solved the greatest philosophical problem of all time. Try the local car showroom at the same time and see what they say. You might like to make this test into a kit form, like a breathalyzer. As a saleable item, we could carry it around our necks and check the illusion/reality separations and levels during the course of our working day. The screen could be colour-coded, have access to the Web and we would be able to order pizzas, porn, and see the sports results as we checked for reality. Tell me Mr. Goldstein is there a history of mental illness in your family? >Fantasy prone people Do you mean such as Newton, Copernicus, Milton, Kepler, Faraday, Shakespeare, and Dick Hall? >and those using logic, reason and >rationality as primary functions think very differently in many >areas.These areas overlap in various manners at all times in >one person. People have several different things happening in their head at the same time? It's enough to frighten the horses in the street, sir. >However, different types of personalities tend to >gravitate more towards each end of the spectrum. I would never have known that if you had not told me. Your conclusions are as startling as your grammar, sir. Are you a native English speaker, Mr Goldstein? >We had Colon Bennett >suddenly pop on to the list as a trickster, The Royal plural again. Here's yet another getting above his station. Mr Goldstein like many of the scientific bent, you write like a club-footed bricklayer. Typical scientist. I mean try a re-arrangement, something like this for God's sake, give your attack some rhythm, attack, and pace. Try "This tricky colon sounds like he crawled out of the dropped hat of a mugged magician" It's not all that good, its out of the top of my head, but it's better than yours piece of amateur crap. Look, I will make a deal with you. The next time you want to attack me, then give me the script, and I will re-write it for you and make it much effective. You scientists produce such dull, mundane, graceless writing. Can you learn to use imagery, metaphor, or something? >bearbaiting Dick Hall He loves it. He's tough as nails. Hasn't had a kicking like that in years. Did him a whole lot good. There were cobwebs all over him. I saved his life. No man could do more than this for another. >and other rational thinkers in Ufology You mean Jan? Jan Bunked off. But now he's back again. Did him a whole of good too. He was very rude and offensive to me, and tried to bully me off this List, rather like you are doing. >with his egotistical, pompous, pontificating, and denigrating >prose This is not a superiority complex, sir. It is just superiority. In the face of such opposition as I have encountered it doesn't take much to be superior. As for the ego you have misunderstood this for leadership. Freudians like yourself attempted to destroy this concept long ago, and paid the price. But I won't go into that. That's quite another List to this one! >that ended up with his declaration of the superiority of >deconstruction. Exactly, Which puts me in some good company indeed, like countless departments of the Universities of the United States. Ufology has yet to enter just one. Do you honestly think that Colin Bennett invented postmodernism yesterday coming home from a good dinner at his club? >Perhaps it would be advisable for Colon Bennett >to work with a therapist to deconstruct his personality >problems, I would not want to do that. I might not come back alive out of it, like Reich and Leary and hundreds of thousands of others social-scientific victims of applied lunatic rationalism who lie in unmarked graves. If that gives you a funny feeling Mr. Goldstein I will understand your historical vertigo. >as he has gone to one extreme and persists in trying >to destroy the rest of the spectrum in himself. Are you a native English speaker, Mr Goldstein? What does "the rest of the spectrum in himself" mean, exactly? >In my opinion >that is a very unbalanced personality. Ignoring the night-school English use of "that is" for a moment, I suggest that you mean "disturbed" rather than "imbalanced". If you had read more widely in history, sir, then you would know that all writers and thinkers are deeply disturbed personalities, and that includes your beloved scientists. Yours is a typical small-town small-time point of view if I may say so, sir. Please get off the line, as our own dear Jan would say. Well there we are! A complete statement of old-time fascist eugenics, would you believe? Wow! This queen walks on the wild side, said I to myself. This will be a pearl for the Combat Diaries (Andy Roberts' favourite comic) says I, this will. Laugh? I could have died. I haven't had so much fun since they put my first wife's kidney machine in the front parlour. I mean this guy is a Freudian! Can you believe that, List Bears? I mean I didn't know there were any left. I thought they had gone with Karl Marx, wigs and gaiters, Eddy Cantor's grandfather, and the Corn Laws. List Bears, I tell you this mother must have a tapeworm of genes stretching beyond Starsky and Hutch! I mean most people's problems don't go back much beyond a missed episode of Breakfast With Dick and Jane, but this fellah's destiny- tissue stretches to Max Simon Nordau's Degeneration, Spengler's Decline of the West, and Stewart Chamberlain's The Myth of the 19th century, how about that for racial memory? He is pure cultural protein, is this Josh. He is pre-screen, is this mother, his pre-electric problem goes way before Michael Faraday's first inductive clicks, now well on their way past the Proxima Centuri. That means this Goldstein must real. I must tell Andy. And this (possibly Yiddish) Gaulieter has the nerve to call ME a crazy mixed-up psycho! What an act! I had to take several glasses of mint tea and a charcoal biscuit in Holland Park after I read that. Even the A Team dogs growled and strained their chains when I was remote-probing this particular black rider. Since in essence Mr. Goldstein was obviously asking for my advice, the only thing I could do for this freak therapeutically was a quick remote view (as distinct from a quick J. Arthur) with the following results. Please excuse the stream-of- conscious style, List Bears, but like I have other things to do but ride shotgun for the wretched of the Earth. Like I still have to work on the Randle/Friedman dialogues and also the Aldrich/Friedman dialogues now that our shy and blushing hero has returned from exile. But I am glad Jan's back. His portrait canvas is just being stretched on my studio easel. Anyway, here is the result of my probe. It happened on a dark and rainy night in George's Mountain Grill in Portobello Road London flanked by police sirens, drug raids, psychos lurching out from supermarkets, and young fit and able beggars spewing in doorways. In addition, whilst I ordered Herbal sausages and chips, there was a house fire, a shooting, countless slashings and bashings and confrontations, and threat of gas, radiation, poison, and nuclear from the alien god of the towel heads, who it appears have never forgiven us for Marilyn Monroe, Wayne's World, and Sports Utility Vehicles. And that was just this afternoon. Actually not an unsuitable atmosphere for a Remote View of Mr. Josh Goldstein SCAN Think. Try to touch. Try to find. Yes. A girl whose face I know slightly takes a table across from me. Concentrate now, Colin. Yes. there is something frightening about this Goldstein. The boys and girls on this List can kick me to hell and back, that kind of thing never really gets to me. Jan and Richard are alright compared with this enforcer. I don't even remotely dislike them. They're human. At least you can smell their feet in a down wind across the Atlantic. Jan Aldrich's feet are terrible, I can tell you. But there's no smell at all from Mr. Goldstein. He chills me. He'll like that. He sounds as if he is as bent as a bricklayer's set square. Could be English of course. I may have this horse from the top of the 52. He could be that bitch who does his vamp down Kensington High Street. But could be a EuroLeather tranny. If he is, he'll earn a fortune in the summer down the Old Denmark Teapot on Saturday nights. The girl asks me for a light. Local librarian. We talk, but Goldstein flows all over her face and herbal sausages. Horrible. SCAN Sometimes people just have no individuality. They are a mix of self-replicating systems soya. This first thing I thought about this wily Goldstein number was minor fallen Oxbridg e. But he sounds far to well adjusted to have a first-class mind. And his grammar has foreign edge to it. As an old Balliol man, I thought I could catch the edge of the voice. Then I thought no, not crazy enough for Oxbridge. Possible an ex-scientific civil servant. That's better. Definitely lower-middle-class, probably with a row of pens in his top pocket and sensible footwear. But the jokes! I mean talk about a German comedian. Wonderful: "Colon" Bennett! And masturbation indeed! I mean Jesus, like which school loo did this old queen attend? Joke? Goldstein? I mean the Marx Brothers must be turning in their graves. I have heard better humour at the Salvation Army Last Chance Depot just before throwing out time. This boy sure sucks on the laughter. I mean is he Orthodox or just kidding? I think we should be told. SCAN Able, bright at the local council level but otherwise definitely retarded. Probably abused early on. He could be a kind of semi- clone, one of those bisexuals chemically castrated by his long- disgraced profession MKULTRA style about 1950. I mean really this mincer should take a job jumping out of cakes at your enemy's parties. He could stop a 4th of July knees-up in five seconds flat. I think he is in mourning for his life. With jokes like this, Josh is definitely in need of serious industrial retraining. Or his local synagogue could use him for dog training or non-lethal weaponry. No, that wouldn't be any good. Watch out kinkies, this one's a killer. Don't let him tie you up. The girl comes over. She knows me. I give talks here. She has read my books. She orders saukraut with mayonnaise and talks and loudly in great detail about a new book Techgnosis. I feel like I am in a Cubist painting My extended psychic gut flows over the herbal sausages and the mayonnaise on the table and Mr. Goldstein's face in my head. SCAN Yes, it's coming now. Nazis and their inevitable needles. Always go together they do, B-feature style. But Goldstein? The name doesn't fit. Perhaps he isn't even Jewish. He can't be. SCAN I'm getting Corso, Corso all the time. Yes, I'm getting very telling images. Corso is some kind of experiment. These people are not interested in Corso right or wrong, what they want to do is get Corso strapped down to a table and apply the voltages. What did Corso do to deserve such a fate? Corso bless him, managed somehow to put a round through Headquarters somewhere, that's what Corso did. SCAN My goodness me. This is big. And I'm not talking about his bra size. This is not about silly Colin and his silly deconstruction bollox. And its not about defending Dick Hall, bless him. And its not about chattering-class liberal shout-ups on the List. No, I've got the eyes of Himmler looking at me, that's what I've got no more no less. Marcia (that's her name) breaks it all up. She starts talking about Looking for Orthon. Her ideas and opinions mix with Corso and Goldstein. Adamski is another lost soul Goldstein would like to have had on the table with probes all over him. SCAN He obeys orders somewhere deep in corporate structure somewhere does this hipster. Something very departmental about the strangled grammar. Shades of Condon's Puritanism, which could go either very Left or very Right. But Jewish? Wow, if he is, he should phone his mother straight away and get it sorted. I'm getting scientist-medical all the time as a strong signal. Deeply disappointed in life. Typical scientist. No sophisticated Arts education. No wide reading. Not much experience of life. Bunker view. Over specialized. Probably rejected MSS of books in a drawer somewhere. I know the feeling. Desperately safe, conformist. I don't know the feeling. Cultural fear oozing out of his stocking-tops. Could be a tech-drone somewhere. Nightschools? Yeah, that's better. Self help all over him, a bit nervous and trying to puppy-up George Hansen. Under promoted. Anal-retentive. I bet his button is as clean as his kitchen-top. Should see the Rabbi and get this all sorted before he finishes up in the goyem intellectual fag-tank permanently. SCAN Fascism. I keep getting corporate fascism all the time. A very strong signal here. Professional associations of all kinds. I'm getting the name Eisenbud. Who is Eisenbud? Probably a colleague. Covert groups. Prime conspirator. All the time, that's what I am getting. Animals screaming. Of course. Lab animals. Now cancel thoughts that ebk would not let me put on this List, Goldstein not a modern. Fact-paranoid. He's European in outlook. But he doesn't live there. Modern buildings. He is not young. Could be part-retired, hence his old-fashioned Freudianism. Marcia has now switched to Politics of the Imagination. My fragmented self of the past three years now flows over the sausages, Mr. Goldstein's possible face, and the clever Marcia's clever questions. Eraserhead was never like this. Are you an anarchist asks this beauty? List Bears, I leave you to imagine the feelings aroused by such a leading question whilst dealing with a rather lukewarm rice pudding, and remote-viewing Josh Goldstein. And like Goldstein, Marcia wants simple direct statement straight from ass-end, just like the media woman she is going to be. SCAN Got it! He's on a campus. Landscaped. Lavish. SUVs all over the place. An ex-army (or Air Force?) humvee in psychedelic colours. Yes. Of course. I should have known. This queen is American. But European. She still has an accent. What's this now? Mmmm_. stuff ebk wouldn't let me put on this List. Bad s***. Really bad s***. Sorry List folks, no can do. Find out for yourselves good List folk. You know his name. Start from there. Marcia has "save the lab animals" sticker on her handbag. Wow, the system is talking to me. SCAN Possibly a doctor of some kind, but his psychiatric references and emphasis are too amateur and outdated. Can't be a modern practicing shrink talking like that. But nevertheless, that's what I keep getting. Probably keeps his cruising life a dread secret, his mascara in an old mustard tin under the kitchen sink. Marcia lights another cigarette and orders coffee. Starts talking about Orthon again. Very Sartre is this caf=E9 scene. Very noire. Very Jan Aldrich. Marcia should be in white make up: a young Juliette Greco, 1947. Goldstein is here again. Grey hair, silver-rimmed circular granny-glasses. Attempt tp look like Carl Jung. No jokes, fantasies, no play here, no silliness. No waste of time. All imaginings are sick, says Goldstein, all deviations from the norm are illnesses. His own whips and chains and masks are probably in a drawer under the sink, thrown away by the cleaner after he has his first heart-attack to avoid embarrassment. SCAN Groups, many groups I'm getting. This horse is connected. Many trails from many groups. Wow, this horse is heavy. I'm getting gates. Ironwork on gates. Arbeit Macht Frei. Jesus, it is Dachau. Wow! This cruiser is but intense! Nazi humour if ever there was, yes that's it. Can't be Jewish. Impossible. Just a Kraut. I should have known it all along. The beer-hall guffaws at Corso. Kick Corso. Stamp the different one, hit the peculiar one Corso. What is this? Charles Fort strapped to a table with probes all over him. Oh yeah, Mr. Goldstein does that kind of thing look familiar? The imagination on the table. Everybody on the table. And screams from the women's block. SCAN Now monosyllabic slashes at Corso from Goldstein. Destroy Corso. Heavy jawed monosyllables. Corso is a gipsy. He's getting near. Kill Corso. Kill Fort. Kill Colon Bennett Yes, Corso's last round certainly went straight into Headquarters. Headquarters want to dine off his heart and liver for that. It's all that anthropological. Lies they say, its all about lies? Anthropology knows no such things. Anthropology knows only ceremony, and the attempted air-brushing of Corso's picture from the Stalinist committee photograph is nothing more or less than sacrificial murder, List Bears. And don't the scientists tell you they are being "objective". Like Mr. Goldstein, Cortez told natives countless things like that before he chopped off their wrists for fun. They too thought he was a god, like science. I look at the sticker of the lab-tortured dog on Marcia's handbag again. It doesn't go well with the cold rice pudding. I push it aside. If she mentions Gold, Stein, or anything like that, the system will start talking again, and the dimensions of the conspiracy are almost mentally annihilating. SCAN. Yes, definite late Nazism. Skinner boxes, Watsonite behaviourist, Mr. Josh Goldstein definitely in a white coat straight out of One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest. By the side of Watson and Gotlieb as they thrust ice-picks into foreheads and jack up the ECT voltage. Well Mr. Josh Goldstein you got to me where warm human blood like Jan or Dick or Andy could never get me. A touch of real evil. Wow, I haven't come across that in a man for over forty years. I won't tell you what happened to him. Congratulations. Thank you for the dose of real cultural fear and paranoia. Real again? I'll phone Andy Roberts. I've found a piece of something I told him was forever an approximation. I've learnt something. I'll say one thing for Mr. Goldstein. He is no approximation. Congratulations Mr. Goldstein. You made me frightened. That has not happened for a very long time. I bet you like that. I bet that turns you on, you kinky fascist luvvie. I should warn you though that when I am frightened I lose all nice intelligent sense of proper liberal proportion and I become very dangerous, far more indeed than your good self. And on a scale of ten, that is very dangerous indeed, because when I am frightened I become very sadistic. I just love destroyers of poetry and spirit and dreams and love and transcendence and magic. Make my day, punk. You see you really must choose your enemies very carefully. Never f*** with a gipsy without giving it some very serious thought indeed, or you will get so smothered in images and stories and trails you won't be able to breathe. So go powder your nose sweetheart, and keep taking the motsos with the facts and theories, but don't forget to take a few minutes off per day to wonder who you are and what you are doing. Because if you are a Jew I think you have somehow forgotten just what that means in terms of what you are doing. And don't get out of your depth again, or I'll give you another story-image kicking any time you like. In other words, my advice is don't f*** with me in this manner again, or I might just release my gipsy tales from their teller. And you would not like that to happen, would you, Mr Goldstein? Auf Wiedersehen, pet! Bin gar keine Russin, stamm' aus Litauen, echt deutsch Et O ces voix d'enfants, chantant dans la coupole! You remember? Goodnight to all UFOupdates List Bears, wherever you are! And God Bless America! PS Oh, I forget to tell you, List Bears. It was only yesterday that I saw Marcia's full name in a local newspaper. It was Marcia G. Stein Colin (Bad Man) Bennett At this point ladies and Gentlemen of the List, let's say hello to the Brentford Polonius! Yes here he is, fresh from the Liesure Centre! Give him a big hand now, folks! >>>I must sit down and sip delicately on a cup of Aunt Augusta's >>>Revivifying Herb Tea for Tired Librarians, for I do feel that I >>>am moving towards some sort of agreement with Mr Bennett's - so >>>far - one man campaign to encourage art and imagination in >>>ufological writings. The passage of mine own that so stirred von Brentford was: "Satire would also help Ufology develop more sophisticated languages. As a sub-culture, Ufology has developed only three main low-level languages: FactSpiel, DocBox, and SeClass (security classifications). These constitute some of the best Orwellian Newspeak of our time. As writing styles, immediate garroting by an editor would be the best such authors could expect. I have heard of rumours of other lesser-known languages of the deep interior of our own heart of scientific-consumer darkness, such as Archspeak (archivespeak) and Labev (laboratory evidence) and Reschmmuter (Yiddish for research talk). These latter are religious languages, known and used only by a few holy men of the secret intellectual sales department. They are mainly verbal, although I have heard of apocryphal stories of published fragments from collectors who have paid a lot of money for them." >>>Of course this has always been the aim of Magonia magazine, but >>>it seems to have passed Mr Bennett by. Not any longer, John. Do Fourth Day Like Four Long Months of Absence for Magonia magazine. It will sour the morning milk yield of all the cross-eyed pen-toed pelicans in the south of England. Great Orks will be seen hovering over Powis Square, and hats will blow off in Brentford. And this is only Supplement Number 1. As a wax seal of divine approval, I want the usual good cussin' by Dick and Andy. Praise is not an option. And, Hatch and Speiser and Macabbee, neither is silence or avoidance. So there. And don't give me all that American Barbie-doll wacked-out tv plastic about long words and long sentences and length and obscure thoughts etc etc and play fifty violins of all the fifty years in Ufological facts and research and Colin isn't sincere, he's a trickster and all that bollox (Ken Campbell spelling). If there is such a thing as fact, the fact is that both Dean Martin and Liberace are dead, and this post of mine is an historic document. Macabbee rated my last as second to the Gettysberg Address, and this one is an improvement. Oy Vey! Well BP, you asked for it. You requested it. Does the above qualify for a new level of excitement and imagination in Ufological writing? Though Mother Hall will deny it all, you see BP, its all about images that's what it's about. Break down the "scientific" (how scientific it is is another question) factspiel, with images and you break down the factoid screens. That's what postmodernism is all about. What did I do to create Goldstein? First I took a few RV stills, then did a few colour washes, then made a full pop-art mask, then I air-brushed the whole for definition. Goldstein then appeared something like the four drop-out exposures of Warhol's photo litho masks of Marilyn Monroe. Only I do this in words. I mean it's a far better method of answering Goldstein than answering him factually. I mean starting off with "Mr. Goldstein, I don't think you have studied my books in quite enough detail to justify the statements you have made against me". If I did that, he'd have my nice liberal guts for garters. Why do I do this? I do this to counter the level of the "scientific" view of anything and everything that is enough kill Yeti and Bogfoot with grief and produces multi-coloured steam from the naval. As I stand back from the Goldstein canvas, I say to myself am I being too nasty with this guy? Should I take down the make up? Should I re-light some of the scenes, should I shoot other sequences from entirely different angle with different filters? And I say to myself no, to do Goldstein properly needs this kind of tonal pressure and surface. He is built such that he would not like such a compromise himself. One of the problems is the lighting cannot be lowered. Goldstein is the hardest of men. Traditionally, it has always been difficult to photograph fascists. They somehow splinter the light and change shape, their geometry is not Euclidean, it is always somehow crypto- personal. There is not a photograph of Hitler or Himmler that does not look absolutely ridiculous. As primal apes, they do not fit cool non-cerebral mediums like TV. That's why I had to put this Goldstein down very quickly. Hesitate, and I would be dead. In fact if you did in the least bit compromise with Mr. Goldstein he would eat your balls for breakfast. Nazis are no mean enemies. Yes, he's that bad. He needs high contrast. Nothing but hard old primal definition would do. Of course this Goldstein oil is not finished. There are many hours of work to be done on his portrait, and I must admit that it contains some faults and one or two contradictions, and the surface is somewhat uneven. I am not happy about Marcia. I think she has potential. She needs more development. I must admit also that I am worried about a little about the colour and image density, but the expanded metaphors are fine. I am not happy about the books Marcia talks about. More detail here and bring in the UFO connections more strongly, what? I offer Fourth Day Like Four Long Months of Absence as a prototype of a method of coming to knowledge through portraiture. What we have here, good List Bears is a totally new genre. Mr. Goldstein attacks, Colin sketches him, lets ebk have it via a communication. The sketch is posted, then preserved forever as Combat Diary Supplement Number 1 in the www.thewhyfiles.com where others will add further touches, more developments with the graphic possibilities not provided by Virtually Strange archives. Reactions to Colin's portrait will be included in the Combat Diaries pasting. Later perhaps, colour sketches for a guess at what Goldstein's face is like from readers of Combat Diaries. And not a penny passes through any hands (including those of Mr. Goldstein!). This is a whole new fabric this is. I don't know where we are going from this very exciting here and now, and neither does anybody else. Of course BP, I'll get screams from the androids and mutants and plain Janes and professional ordinaries and steam footplate pre- quantum scientists saying what's he doing putting all this different stuff for on the List? Why isn't the Bad Man being banal, mundane, practical, worthy, sensible, why doesn't he have all those qualities of the steam footplate journeymen? These are weird ideas will say the grocers, and he uses long words and long sentences will say the super grocers, and he is not being simple-minded, conventional and half-baked will say the simple- minded, conventional and half-baked steam footplate men. And he doesn't do research and stick to the facts will say the steam- age Ufological Commissars. And why doesn't he go out into the field, with his jam-jar and butterfly net and magnifying glass and notebook, looking for lights in the sky like any sensible British person, will say the Ufological Stalinists and Maoists and interrogatory dialecticians? Answer: that's why he called the Bad Man. Why is still alive, as distinct from others he could mention? Because the Bad Man never does what he is told to do, that's why. But Andy Roberts will learn to love Fourth Day Like Four Long Months of Absence, born in the fire of his curses. His last List post on the Trans-en-Provence business shows that like his worthy colleague Mr. Clarke, he is preparing himself for confession and the Ufological wafer. He asked me to comment, and as I have told him, I am available for confidential advice in any and every such case. The candles never go out in the borderland between fact and fiction. But Andy ask me a question about his post on the Trans-en- Provence case, and I take the opportunity to answer: >>>>Unless, and by golly I think I've cracked the case, unless he >>>>was just being post-modern Colin? Those wacky Frenchmen eh? What is this Is it real? Is it solved? Is it a hoax? The whole truth? A confusion about authors? If Randles should happen to disagree with you about authorship, then we would have that Borges/Fort meme that is postmodernism. Yes, you are indeed developing a post modern view, Andy. The imagery, linking and development of the tory situation as described by yourself and others are vectors in the reality set. The lies, fantasies, confusions and avoidances are all vital functions within the set. Without lies reality doesn't work. The lies vary from putting a comb through your hair in the morning and thinking you are James Bond to what Kropotkin called the Big Lies of Science, Authority and the State. All is deception. All is ambiguity. There now, that's lot better than singular steam-footplate mechanism, what? I myself ignore the facts of a situation. They're pure cultural camouflage. I go for the fantasies. They tell me infinitely more. Mother Hall will love that one. I designed it just for him. I think it's good. I thinking I will change the lighting, shoot in the open, and cut in some archive after I have re-mixed. I am a camera. In my new novel, I shall call Dick Mr. Bear. I haven't found a name for Jan yet. Names come to you. I'll tell him when it arrives. Yes, struggle as he might, Modernism now hath Andy in thrall, and we all know what happens after modernism. Andy is now up to 1950, which at least is way past most contemporary steam footplate Ufologists. Banish thy steam footplate angst Andy, become a postmodern and enter the Fortean mysterium betwixt the two daemons Fact and Fiction. No more trying putting the UFO experience upon the railway tracks and angle-iron of the late 19th century. But no poor fact-versus-fiction soul is damned beyond recall. Each and every such steam footplate soul is capable of being saved. Even Jan and Goldstein are not lost forever. They will return, like the Prodigal, as if from a night journey under the sea, towards Fort's cottage in the Western night. List Bears, I now announce the Founding of New Ufology. I shall nail this post as a flying scroll on the doors of the church of scientific Ufology. As seals on this Bull, I will put the curses of the cult objectivists to show that New Ufology was born of intellectual ice and fire, ideological blood and steel. New Ufology will help to construct nothing less than a complete new definition of what is meant by information. Of this, much more later. Note the date and time, List Bears. And as the poet said, forget your underwear, we are free. New Ufology is born. Meantime Andy, you have a very big problem. You are alive. This is the most terrifying discovery that a man can make. It is the discovery of an impossibility almost as great as the impossibility of the alien and the UFO. If we search hard we may find others still breathing in the ruins of these Last Days. Colin (Bad Man) Bennett The Peacocks are gone now, the orchestra is silent, darkness falls over Holland Park and I leave the Team Room, my mind full of clues. Goodnight Orillana, wherever you are. Tonight I shall light a candle for you in Headquarters. Meantime see you all in Fortean Times 168 (March, 2003) when my Oberg portrait will be on public display.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 29 Fortean Times UFO Article From: Andy Roberts <aj.roberts@blueyonder.co.uk> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 16:43:22 -0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 13:05:35 -0500 Subject: Fortean Times UFO Article Pilgrims, Anyone with a serious interest in UK ufology should take a look at the following URL: http://www.forteantimes.com/articles/164_govtxfiles.shtml This is the full, illustrated and references article Dave Clarke and myself did for a recent issue of Fortean Times. It contains definitive information about the UK government's interest in UFOs during the 1950s. And best of all, unlike Georgina Bruni and Nick Pope - we did all the research ourselves and have given full credit where necessary! Happy Trails Andy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 29 Awakening Mary Rodwell From: Roy Hale <roy.hale@ntlworld.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 17:07:46 -0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 13:06:52 -0500 Subject: Awakening Mary Rodwell Hi All, I have just placed the latest book from Mary Rodwell of ACERN, on my site, please use the below link to view. http://www.thelosthaven.co.uk/AwakeMaryUFO.htm Thanks, Roy.. Roy Hale is the Owner of The Lost Haven http://www.thelosthaven.co.uk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 29 Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Maccabee From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 12:35:36 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:34:38 -0500 Subject: Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Maccabee >From: Andrew Dabrowski <dabrowsa@indiana.edu> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 15:54:20 -0500 >Subject: Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? >>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>> >>Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 18:24:18 +0100 >>Subject: Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? >><snip> >>The arguments of arch-skeptics Maillot and Scornaux are well >>known in France for having been re-hashed over many years. Their >>"motives" (what do you mean by "ulterior") are well known. Not >>one good UFO study must remained unpunished! Recently, Maillot >>proposed to me to debate about the Arnold sightings - I said no >>thanks! I am not even sure he reads English properly. >See: >http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/1999/aug/m12-002.shtml >for the argument the Arnold's sighting was of pelicans. When someone can prove that pelicans can outrun an airplane flying 100 mph I'll reconsider. http://brumac.8k.com/KARNOLD/KARNOLD.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 29 Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Mott From: Wm. Michael Mott <mottimorph@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 09:48:37 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:40:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Mott >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> >Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 00:08:29 -0800 >Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 08:07:02 -0500 >Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Hatch >Hello Wm. Michael: >I'm going to have to snip a lot, and cut to the chase here. >Nobody wants to sift thru long agonizing arguments. I agree! Thanks for writing back so quickly. >I first heard of this North-South assertion from Kelly >Peterborough on this list, as follows: >>I just read on another List that it has been 'verified' >>(no sources cited) that the 'majority'(no percentage given) >>of UFOs flight-paths take a north to south or south to >>north direction. >>My dear Larry H., is this something you have kept track >>of in your database? Anybody else have any comments? >>And if the above is true, any speculation as to why? >So, I kinda got invited in. My statistics (see below) didn't >support the N-S claim at all, something of a disappointment. >When I wrote the C-language routine to search these sorts of >things out, I was hoping for _some_ sort of findings I could put >on the lists. There may be data out there. I've included some additional material below. Your data is very important, there's no doubt about it. However, I think you might want to look for some additional correlations (see farther below). >Asking Kelly for more info., I learned: >>Mike Mott posted it on his 'fantasticreality' Yahoo >>Groups List when someone questioned something about the hollow >>earth theory. >>He was the one who said the above about the flight >>patterns of UFOs, which I gather hollow-earthers believe means >>that UFOs are from the inside of the earth and enter and exit >>via the holes in the North and South Poles, thus the North- >>South, South-North patterns, comprende vous? Sumtin like that. >>I didn't ask Mike what his source was - thought I'd rather hear >>from you because of your database. But if you and Errol don't >>mind, I'd like to post this to his List. >My *U* Database catalogs what I hope is the best collection of >anomalous sightings of what appear to be artificial and >controlled craft, not of human origin. >Very definitely filtered, and for darned good reasons, I do not >knowingly list sightings of what appear to be natural, mundane >or manmade objects. Understandable! Sometimes such distinctions are not readily apparent, as in the case of the recent "green fireball" sightings in the Northwest (btw, wasn't that object said to be moving north to south, or vice-versa? I'm not sure of this, though.). >Again, one statistical routine in the *U* software is a UFO >trajectories data dump. I wrote this in years ago. >Here are some numbers. Out of a total (today 29JAN03) of 12639 >*U* listings, 29.5% or 5296 sightings had some indication of >direction of travel. Some cases had UFOs departing in multiple >directions, so totals will exceed 5296. >The Trajectories routine scans the Synopsis field looking for >final directions of travel, denoted >N, >SE, >>SSW and the like. >Two arrow brackets indicate high speed. >>N, >S, >E and >W are simply counted during number crunching. >>NNE and >NNW are "approximately North", and counted as >"North". Similarly, >SSE and >SSW count as "South". >>ENE and >ESE count as East. >WNW and >WSW are West. >Note that >NE, >SE, >NW and >SW are not counted at all. These >are right at the 45-degree cutoff points, thus useless for >tracking longitudinal versus latitudinal departure. This makes sense. However, many witnesses may use "northeast, northwest, southeast, and southwest" in a less technical sense when telling their stories. In other words, they use these terms in the vernacular sense, which indicates either a predominantly northerly or southerly movement or direction. This is due to the fact that most people simply tell the facts in a straightforward way, using common language and usage, rather than technical. >Bottom line for all continents and decades: >North South East West >1771 1793 1685 1815 >Adding North to South for N-S (either polar direction) >and likewise East + West for E-W flights, I get >Polar (Longitudinal) =3D N + S =3D 3564. >-and- (Latitudinal) =3D E + W =3D 3500. >Yes, there is a slight N-S excess, but few statisticians would >pay much attention to it. A deviation of 64 cases out of 7,064 >is 64/7096 =3D 0.00906 =3D 0.906 percent. This is very slight, you're right. But this is why I say you may want to interpret it in conjunction with other data. >http://www.larryhatch.net/USOURCE.html Thanks, I will check your site out! >Now you have my numbers, and my sources (again). >Could you kindly provide us with your statistics and sources? I >would like to see your data supporting the claim that the >'majority' of UFOs flight-paths take a north to south, or south >to north direction. In addition to the examples and sources originally cited, many years of observing descriptions of sightings in various books on the subject leave me with little doubt as to this. Note that in my original post to Kelly, I stated that I believe your data and opinion are valid. I did want to point out, however, that there is considerable data, in all likelihood falling outside of the parameters which you use, to support the north-south and south-north tendency. I submit to you that rather than discarding data, you should include flight paths of NW-SE, NE-SW, SW-NE, SE-NW from a "common usage" perspective. These could very well be indicative of simple variations of a regular or N-S/S-N tendency, i.e., "stops or detours along the way." If UFOs are utilizing the electromagnetic grid of the earth (the "Cathie Grid") for propulsion or navigation, then this might provide an explanation. As I said in the earlier cross-post, I by no means am saying that east-to-west or west-to-east flights don't take place. In fact, this would fit right in with the "grid" theory. Examples are too numerous to list completely. My opinion here is based on years of reading and researching, as well as hearing first-hand accounts from credible witnesses. For example, in 1999, a friend with connections in governmental circles called to tell me about a sighting he had experienced himself, in the pre-dawn minutes. Rising early, he went out onto a Florida beach to watch the sunrise. Much to his surprise, he ended up watching "dozens" of silvery UFOs, catching the light of the still unseen sun, flying silently in formation from south to north. He indicated that he watched them for at least five minutes, so the number must have been pretty high. Two witnesses, a father and daughter, indicated to me that while travelling southbound on a north-south running road in Alabama (Highway 17, close to Vernon), they met a low-flying, round craft with a bulbous top and bottom, red on the bottom and with a strobe-type flash on top, moving silently northward, parallel to the road and just above the treetops. The time was about 6:30 pm in the late summer. The craft was slow moving, travelling about 60 mph. They watched it approach, then slowed to a near stop and watched it head steadily to the north until it disappeared from view. The literature is full of such accounts, as well as descriptions of numerous ufo sightings in the Antarctic. Barry Taylor's posts presented a familiar theme to me, I must admit. ------ http://www.nidsci.org/news/illinois/flightpath.html Excerpt: The eight eyewitnesses whose testimonies are shown in this report point to a flight path of a large triangular shaped object that crossed the coast from Lake Michigan just North of Chicago, Illinois, arriving from the northeast and heading southwest at 10:00=E2=C7"10:30 pm on the night of January 4, 2000. The object was first sighted by a businessman just North of Chicago, IL at between 10:00=E2=C7"10:30 pm on the night of January 4, 2000. The next sighting placed it just north east of Highland, IL approximately 6 hours later, at 4:00 am on January 5, 2000, on the same flight path, still coming from the Northeast and heading southwest. The craft was then observed at Lebanon and Shiloh, IL and it may have changed it's course, heading briefly northwest and then resuming its southwesterly course. The change in course may possibly have been designed to avoid Scott Air Force base, but this is speculation. ----- We've already discussed this one: http://www.tje.net/para/wots/9805/98_05_04_06.htm But there are so many others. A quick web search found far more than I can take time to examine right now, but how about this one? http://www.tje.net/para/wots/9807/98_07_20_04.htm Excerpt: The UFO traveled north toward New York city. ...it flew in from the south, south east passed Kennedy which was to the east, La Guardia which was also to its east and Newark to its west and exited towards the north. The flight path this Ufo took put it within about 10 miles of all three of these airports at some time during its flight. ------ Heading home? http://www.nicap.dabsol.co.uk/tangle.htm Excerpt: While the (F-51) airplane was traveling at only 240 mph, the UFO was estimated to be moving at 1,000 mph, first to the east and then changing to the north ------ http://www.nuforc.org/webreports/005/S05352.html Excerpt: An unidentified flying object sited over Carbondale Illinois. The object travelled from North to South in a direct path at a speed that I could not define, maybe over Mach 3. The aircraft was out of sight within ten seconds from beginning to end. It was orange to orange white in color. There were three other witnesses. And At approximetaly 10:30 P.M. on November 23, 1998, myself and three other witnesses saw an unidentified flying object travelling in a direct path from North to South at a very high speed slightly to the West of us. ------ http://starshipgamma.com/uforeport/db_browse.php Excerpts: Light street silver shining 2 meters or 30 degrees on mid of sky at night 1 First light street from north to south...2 2 seconds later second Light street opposite direction exactly on same sector and line Light streets silver shining at night on mid of sky...1 First light street going from north to south 2 meters or 30 degrees. 4 seconds later the same magnetic flash light or light street occured on the same sector and line but direction opposite south to north -- Even Kenneth Arnold's original sighting followed this pattern: http://psychicinvestigator.com/demo/UFO_TXT2.htm Timing the echelon's north-to-south flight between the two points at around "one minute and forty-two seconds," he deduced that the craft were "traveling in excess of a 1000 mph." -------- http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/2653/rep96e.txt Pear shaped object observed in S by SW sky descending very slowly to north at approx. 45 degree angle. ----- http://www.geocities.com/ufologia_canadiana/Manitobasighting2002.html It was going in either a North or North East direction and was very very fast! They were watching the planetary "alignment" and saw these other two orangey-red objects in the North, about 45 degrees elevation. At first they were still, but after a few seconds, they started playing their aerial "tag" and then sped off after 30 seconds to the North, although one seemed to veer W near the horizon. ---- http://www.ufokc.4mg.com/report9.htm Location: flight path of airlines from Downtown Kansas City=C2 Airport over Independence, 75-degree angle, North to North-East sky ----- http://www.gizaoracle.com/zufos2.htm 1926 - Mongolia. During his expedition explorer Nicholas Roerich and members of his caravan, caught sight of a huge oval-shaped object high in the sky. It had a shiny surface that reflected the sun on one side and moved at great speed north to south. ---- http://www.abduct.com/reports/updates19990312.htm 2. "V" FORMATION OF FLYING ORBS - First seen leaving the Henderson-Las Vegas area and entering Arizona at high speed, a V-formation of five to seven orbs, variously seen as bright blue-white to a yellow-white, came through the Prescott Valley area at low altitude by 7:50 p.m., turning south, where by 8:28, were videotaped and 3. CHEVRON VLO (narrow angle) - Observed first as a "V" formation of five white lights moving slowly and silently toward Prescott Valley from the northwest at about 8:15 p.m., the "chevron" was soon clearly seen as a single object. The craft was seen to make a southerly turn at about 8:25, once again, in the Prescott Valley area, after first approaching from the northwest. http://www.uforth.com/conicalhat.htm That without any marked change of sound except a soft rush of air, sucking away and not blowing toward me, the object abruptly ascended almost vertically, slightly northeasterly at immense speed into thick cloud cover (maybe 300 feet up) and was instantly gone from sight and hearing. and The lead pilot was startled to see two large shadows moving at high speed along the ground, coming from the northwest. He looked up and saw that two huge UFOs were causing the shadows. --- http://www.nidsci.org/articles/maccabee/acceleration.html Suddenly, these two objects made a right angle turn, and headed northward away from her.2 and According to the Condon Report, 3 "As we watched, the stationary target started moving at a speed of 400 to 600 mph in a north, northeast direction.... and The saucers were at a reasonably high elevation angle as they moved westward and then abruptly turned north, so she was in a good position to see the turn. and According to Mr. Powell, they were flying northward at about 4,500' near Willow Grove, Pennsylvania, on May 21, 1966 at 3:15 p.m. when they saw an unidentifiable object following some jets that had just taken off to the north from the Naval Air Station at Willow Grove. and was traveling north to south past his house on Pensacola Beach. He thought it was a "fat, round-looking cruise missile" from Eglin Air Force Base10, 11. and As he was walking westward and looking around he suddenly noticed a UFO approaching from the north, over his right shoulder. ---- Given the proximity of Greenland to the Arctic, this data is particularly interesting: http://www.nicap.dabsol.co.uk/ncp-nn020623.htm A radio message received from Frobisher Bay, reported four vapor trails over=C2 Resolute on 1 Mar 53, direction north to south. Negative information was=C2 dispatched from this station.=C2 Again on 1 Mar 53, contrails were sighted over Simiutak, Greenland.=C2 Contrails were moving northwest to southeast. On 11 Mar 53, Sondrestrom AB,=C2 reported unidentified contrails which curved south, approximately 50 miles=C2 southwest of this base.=C2 and The object came from a northwest direction. and Another report of sighting from Angmagssalik, Greenland, on 2 May 53, if=C2 unidentified aircraft was observed from the ground by observers of unknown=C2 experience, flying from northwest to southeast at a very high altitude. and On 21 May 53, RCAF airways at Resolute Bay reported that an unidentified=C2 aircraft flew over Resolute site at approximately 400 feet altitude in a=C2 north to south direction. and Again on 22 June 53, Mint Julep reported that an unidentified contrail was sighted over the cap site at an=C2 altitude of approximately 25,000 feet, flying northward at a very high rate=C2 of speed. SC-47 at Sondrestrom was dispatched to check for possible=C2 identification but was unable to procure additional information. and Object was travelling in southeast to northwest direction=C2 at varied speeds. --- I could go on and on like this, but why bother? There are many accounts like this in print as well. Given the incidents of UFOs sighted in polar regions, at sea, coming and going from lakes and seas, and so on, a picture of a covert terrestrial society (native or transplanted) comes to the fore. This, also, is indicated in nearly EVERY ancient mythology, religion, tradition, and folklore cycle, as well as in historical writings. Ever wonder what the _real_ reason was that the major nations of the world divided Antarctica up like a frozen pie? Why are there covert military operations there? Why are polar trekkers interrupted, picked up and flown out by military personnel? Could it be that the governments of the world long ago figured out at least one aspect or a partial aspect of the UFO mystery, that there is a "polar connection?" It is also demonstrable, from reams and reams of eyewitness and abductee accounts and data, that there is an earthly subterranean (sub-crustal or cavernous) and oceanic aspect to the UFO phenomenon, and there always has been. --Mike Mott
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 29 Re: Laughlin Conference - King From: Tom King <tomking2030@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 17:59:15 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:43:48 -0500 Subject: Re: Laughlin Conference - King >From: Philip Mantle <philip.mantle@eidosnet.co.uk> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Laughlin Conference >Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 18:02:16 -0000 >I just wanted to let the List members know that I'll be speaking >at the Laughlin, Nevada Conference next week on the subject of >Alien Abductions In The UK. This presentation will be based on >our book 'Without Consent'. >If any List members are attending the conference please drop by >the UFO Magazines (UK) booth and say hello, as I'll be >travelling over with them. Hello Philip and List, I thought about going this year since it's only a couple hours drive from my location. I decided not to attend since it's the same club of people every year. Then there's Sean David Morton and Steven Greer. With all the hard working UFO researchers out there can't they find someone with better qualifications then those two? On top of that one of the speakers is a convicted child molester who speaks every year! I'd be interested in listening to Stan Romanek a couple others speaking. Most of the regular speakers will probably give last years lecture and I'm not interested in that. I think its more of a UFO circus than a Congress. Good luck to you and hope you enjoy our weather. Tom King
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 29 CCCRN News: A 'New Spin' on Dowsing and Crop From: Paul Anderson <psa@look.ca> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 10:59:07 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:51:46 -0500 Subject: CCCRN News: A 'New Spin' on Dowsing and Crop CCCRN NEWS The E-News Service of the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada January 29, 2003 _____________________________ A 'New Spin' on Dowsing and Crop Circles http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada/circlesanada02.html (see field reports for Mission, BC and Mission, BC #2) The field reports for the two corn formations at Mission, BC in 2002 have been updated on the web site after another inspection made by the local CCCRN team and other visiting field research assistants this past weekend (formations are still there as the fields were cut last fall, but are not ploughed yet). During a dowsing experiment, the L-rods were observed to often start 'spinning' in complete, fairly rapid rotations, in the second larger formation in particular, which was also videotaped; interestingly, similar accounts of spinning dowsing rods have come from research teams during ghost-hunting investigations. While dowsing itself is a much debated subject, the results were interesting needless to say. Also of interest are numerous stalks bent over about as much as a foot above the ground, in the largest rectangular bars of the larger second formation in particular (more than in other areas of the formation previously visited), some sample ears of corn from inside this formation which are significantly more lightweight than controls from outside, birds which did not feed on any of the fallen ears of corn inside the formations for about two months after the formations initially occurred then began to feed normally as well as recent reports of odd lights over the Mission area including one making a sharp 90-degree turn on January 16 and others in the same area. One of the oldest known ancient sites in British Columbia, Hatzic Rock, is also nearby, dating from about 1,000 to 3,650 B.C. Additional photos will also be added soon. ____________________________ Want more? Subscribe to The Prairie Circular, the quarterly print newsletter of CCCRN and keep informed with the latest news, updates, articles, reviews and complete crop circle coverage from the Canadian prairies and across the country... only from CCCRN! http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada/theprairiecircular.html ____________________________ CCCRN News is the e-news service of the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, providing e-mail updates with the latest news and reports on the crop circle phenomenon in Canada, as well as other information on CCCRN-related projects and events, sent free to your e-mail. To subscribe, send an e-mail with Subscribe CCCRN News in the subject line to: cccrnnews@look.ca cccrnnews@look.ca The Canadian Crop Circle Research Network is a non-profit research organization which has been seriously investigating and documenting the crop circle phenomenon and other possibly related phenomena in Canada since 1995, creating a liason between researchers, farmers, the public, media and scientists. Main Office 202 - 325 East 14th Avenue Vancouver, BC V5T 2M9 Canada Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522 Cell: 604.727.1454 E-Mail: cccrn@look.ca Web: http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada =A9 Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, 2003
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 29 Re: Laughlin Conference - Gates From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 14:16:10 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:56:08 -0500 Subject: Re: Laughlin Conference - Gates >From: Philip Mantle <philip.mantle@eidosnet.co.uk> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Laughlin Conference >Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 18:02:16 -0000 >I just wanted to let the List members know that I'll be speaking >at the Laughlin, Nevada Conference next week on the subject of >Alien Abductions In The UK. This presentation will be based on >our book 'Without Consent'. Philip, Its good to know that somebody reputable (and I know there will probably be others) going to Laughlin. So often we get the latest load of Reed/Raith type information and other assortments of similar speakers. Good Luck Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 29 Re: Corso - Connors From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 12:20:13 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 16:00:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Connors >From: Colin Bennett <colin@bennettc25.fsnet.co.uk> >To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 16:26:53 -0000 >Subject: Re: Corso <snip> Colin, Now I understand why your mother named you "Colin". Not only was your delivery, without a doubt, the longest in history and like the punctuational use of the colon, your name itself hints at never knowing how to stop babbling. The only saving grace your prose may have is for a sure cure for insomniacs. Like others on this List, I too, shall no longer open your posts. I suggest a colonic, Valium and basic course in Net Etiquette. Wendy Connors
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 29 Re: Fortean Times UFO Article - Pope From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 19:52:11 -0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 16:02:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Fortean Times UFO Article - Pope >From: Andy Roberts <aj.roberts@blueyonder.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 16:43:22 -0000 >Subject: Fortean Times UFO Article >Pilgrims, >Anyone with a serious interest in UK ufology should take a look >at the following URL: >http://www.forteantimes.com/articles/164_govtxfiles.shtml >This is the full, illustrated and references article Dave Clarke >and myself did for a recent issue of Fortean Times. It contains >definitive information about the UK government's interest in >UFOs during the 1950s. Dear All, Those interested in how the government and military handle the UFO issue in the UK might also like to read two articles that Georgina Bruni and I wrote. They were published by Graham W Birdsall in the April 2002 and May 2002 issues of UFO Magazine. The articles highlight the role played by senior Establishment figures (political, military and scientific) and examine Anglo- American liaison on the issue. There is also some more general information on document classification, personality clashes and the handling of scientific intelligence in the aftermath of the Second World War. These last two points had more of a bearing on policy with regard to UFOs than might be supposed. The articles can be found at the following two URLs: http://www.nickpope.net/official_history.htm http://www.nickpope.net/official_history_pt_2.htm Best wishes, Nick Pope
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 29 Re: Laughlin Conference - Hamilton From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 13:31:21 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 16:40:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Laughlin Conference - Hamilton >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 14:16:10 -0500 >Subject: Re: Laughlin Conference >>From: Philip Mantle <philip.mantle@eidosnet.co.uk> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Subject: Laughlin Conference >>Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 18:02:16 -0000 >>I just wanted to let the List members know that I'll be speaking >>at the Laughlin, Nevada Conference next week on the subject of >>Alien Abductions In The UK. This presentation will be based on >>our book 'Without Consent'. >Philip, >Its good to know that somebody reputable (and I know there will >probably be others) going to Laughlin. So often we get the >latest load of Reed/Raith type information and other assortments >of similar speakers. Then we have Monday, February 3rd or should I call it Planet X Day: Mark Hazelwood & Prof. James Mccanney - Planet X research and forecast Sean David Morton - Prophecy, Planet X and the Pyramid Timeline Donald Ware - Planet X - A Philosophical Viewpoint Planet X Panel - Today's speakers will join together for a group discussion and audience Q & A Session. I have issued statements on Planet X to help distinquish this fiction from the facts, but for some mysterious reason I am not one of those to appear on the Panel. Humph! I would like to suggest Bob Young. Maybe he could bring something to the table. Bill H.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 29 Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Rudiak From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 13:19:01 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 17:17:36 -0500 Subject: Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Rudiak >From: Jim Houran <JHouran@siumed.edu> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 14:25:53 -0600 >Subject: Re: Validating The Ramey Memo >There is too much emotional laden language and arguments from >Rudiak to which to respond. I also expect civil exchanges and >debates. 'Name calling' and 'label tossing' in its various >guises does not become academicians, and in fact, it undermines >the credibility of those applying the labels. It does not become academicians or enhance their credibility to publish research in peer review journals in which their primary conclusion is not supported by their data. Nor does it enhance credibility when they refuse to answer direct questions about this. The Houran/Randle conclusion, as stated in their abstract in the Journal of Scientific Exploration, is as follows: "Many participants indeed claimed to be able to read the document, although their subsequent solutions appeared to follow directly from the experimental suggestions." Likewise, in their "Results" section, they state: "Table 3 shows that participants primed to notice Roswell- related terms indeed tended to interpret some words in accordance with earlier interpretations of the same words in the same positions by ufologists (e.g. "remains," "weather balloons," "land"). Likewise, ... in the Atomic Bomb Condition, ... this change in context was accompanied by new interpretations of certain words. Now, we see the participants perceived content that was congruent with the atomic bomb scenario (e.g., "flash," "glasses," "atomic")." The main thing wrong with these statements is the absence of numbers to back up the claim that the words read or the "solutions" of "many participants" "followed directly from the experimental suggestions." Where are the numbers telling us what percentage of the readers read words solely determined by the context provided (Roswell, atomic bomb testing)? What percentage of words out of all words clearly showed the influence of context? It turns out they can't tell you because the raw data on the so- called "primed" words was thrown away: "One referee requested we list how many participants in each condition deciphered each word. We contacted our primary research assistant for the numbers... We unfortunately learned that the assistant disposed of his actual score sheets.... As a result, we only have detailed data on the deciphered words common across the three suggestion conditions." This begs the question, how could they draw conclusions much less write a paper about some major "priming" effect without the relevant data in front of them? I'm reproducing their Table 3 below (rearranged for clarity) so that everybody can look at the data they do provide: Table 3: ------------------------------------------------------------------- Pro-UFO condition Atomic bomb Condition Blind Condition (n = 59) (n = 58) (n = 59) Words Common to All Groups (Note: Even though "Fort Worth" and "weather balloons" naturally coincide, each term counted as two words) Fort Worth TX (n=24) (n=17) (n=11) story (n=43) (n=11) (n= 7) land (n=41) (n= 6) weather (n) (n= 5) balloons (n) (n= 5) (n= 2) various punctuation (n=59) (n=58) (n=59) Words Exclusive to Groups (n = ????) (n = ????) (n = ????) remains glasses flew fundamental morning crash meaning UFO flash atomic laboratory ------------------------------------------------------------- Other relevant statistics: Roswell Atomic Control Avg. time/person (min.) 20 16 14 Words/person M=4.6 4.8 1.6 Total words read 271 278 94 "common" words 196 (72%) 78 (28%) 42 (45%) all other words 75 (28%) 200 (72%) 52 (55%) "exclusive" words ? (>1.5%) ? (>2.2%) ? (>1.1%) ---------------------------- Note the following: 1. Average words per person read in the two contextual situations (Roswell and atomic testing) were less than 5. This statistic alone does not suggest a lot of wild guessing based on expectation going on. (Note: There are are approximately 70 "words" of the Ramey memo out in plain sight and not hidden by obstructions, in shadows, etc.) 2. Most words in the Roswell group (72%) are the so-called "common" words to all situations, including the original readers of the Ramey memo. Even Houran agrees, therefore, that these "common" words are likely there and not the result of suggestion. This leaves just 28% or 75 words from the total Roswell group of 59 readers that could possibly be words "exclusive" to context. (Thus a little over one "exclusive" word per person on average.) However, most likely, the bulk of such words are common short words like "the", "of", etc. (which make up approximately 40% of all the words and were undoubtedly read by some, though this is never discussed). 3. ***There are no numbers for the so-called "exclusive" words.*** Therefore, we don't know how many there are or how many subjects found them. The table lists only 4 such words in the Roswell group out of 271 total deciphered. Therefore, the percentage of these "exclusive" words out of all words could even be as low as 1.5%, though there was possibly some replication. In the absence of any information, let's guess 4 replications for each word (probably a very generous estimate), or a grand total of 6% of all words read by this group. 4. Note that 2 of these "exclusive" Roswell words, "remains" and "fundamental" have no obvious direct Roswell context connection. It is therefore hard to understand how somebody allegedly "primed" by the Roswell context would be biased in seeing them. (A similar situation exists in the "exclusive" words for the atomic testing group. Two of these words, "meaning" and "morning" also seem to be completely neutral. "Meaning" was also a consensus word by the original allegedly "biased" Roswell ufologists. Obviously seeing it has nothing to do with the context or any "priming.") 5. If you throw out the two neutral "exclusive" words in the Roswell group, we end up with 2 words total, "UFO" and "crash" that could conceivably be "primed" by context. That cuts the 6%, already generous estimate of Roswell "primed" words, down to 3% of all words read. (And I seriously doubt that more than one person even saw "UFO" there, a word that didn't even exist in 1947. Did anybody else notice how they labeled this column the "pro-UFO condition" instead of the "Roswell condition"?) Similar results apply to the atomic bombing context. It seems that at best a very small percentage of words read were possibly "primed" by the given context. (Of course, we can't know exactly, for the very reason that the critical data was _thrown out_.) 6. We therefore have to ask on what basis that Houran and Randle conclude that, "Many participants indeed claimed to be able to read the document, although their subsequent solutions appeared to follow directly from the experimental suggestions." Note the word "many", suggesting a large percentage of the participants, instead of the small percentage it appears it really was. Also note the highly misleading phrasing about how their "solutions" were a direct result of the context. Again, this makes it sound like most of their words (their "solutions") were the result of unique context, instead of it again being a very small percentage of all words. >I cannot speak for Kevin Randle, but I will leave this now non- >constructive debate on this final note. It seems that Rudiak >neither understands the rationale for my arguments on bias or >the influence of preconceived notions, I understand them perfectly, but the data, what's left of it, obviously doesn't support it. It's hard to escape the conclusion that you went in looking for major bias due to context and you found it, even though your data says otherwise. As you yourself wrote in your Results section: "The findings generally supported our expectations...." What were your expectations? Your experimental hypothesis you stated at the end of your introduction: "We expected that each suggestion condition would elicit significant differences in the participant's interpretations." Thus the "bias" and "preconceived notions" seem to be primarily those of the investigators, not the subjects. I'll be damned if I can find any "signficant differences" in your data, other than the Roswell group being much better at finding the "common" words like "weather balloons." (This is never even discussed in your paper and contradicts your statements here that correct context makes readings "unreliable.") When the experiment didn't go the way of your "expectations," namely context causing a large number of subjects to read only what they expected to read, it looks to me like you and Randle spun the results. The "significant effect" existed even when it didn't. > nor the implications of > the various statistical findings in my JSE paper with Randle. None of these statistical findings has any bearing on your central conclusion, namely a big "priming" effect caused by context. Where are the numbers to support this? You state in your paper that the relevant data got thrown out. Without the proper data, there is no way to reach a valid conclusion. This is the scientific equivalent of a mistrial. At that point, the study needed to be completely redone and the paper without proper supporting data should never have been submitted for publication in the first place. >Suffice it to say, we must agree to disagree. I strongly suggest >to Rudiak, however, that he submit his study of the Ramey Memo >to a peer-reviewed, scientific journal, as I have done. I will >continue my work on the problem in the way I feel it should be >handled, and I will disseminate the results (be they pro or con) >in said forums. The primary purposes of formal peer review are to make sure methods and data analysis are valid and that conclusions follow from the data. This is one instance where peer review failed miserably in the data analysis/conclusions departments. Without the data to support the main conclusion, the paper should never have gotten through peer review. Obviously surviving peer review does not by itself validate results. Flawed peer review can lead to the publication of flawed results. Saying I need to submit my work to a peer-reviewed journal strikes me as a dodge on your part to avoid answering pointed questions about _your_ work. Many in this public forum can also be considered peers and are perfectly capable of understanding direct answers when provided. I am claiming you and Randle grossly overstated your key conclusion and can't support it with your data. You could _easily_ put me in my place just by presenting the numbers that show you reached the right conclusion. But apparently you can't, because by your own admission they don't exist. Your evidence is at best anecdotal, a mention of a few words exclusive to the conditions, some of which are very neutral and have no obvious exclusive contextual connection. You went in, again by your own admission in your paper, with the "expectation" of finding a "very significant" contextual priming effect and claim you found it. All I'm asking is for you to show us the numbers, right here. Or as they used to say in the 80's "where's the beef?" David Rudiak
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 29 Re: Laughlin Conference - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 22:24:30 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 17:42:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Laughlin Conference - Hall >From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 13:31:21 -0800 >Subject: Re: Laughlin Conference >>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 14:16:10 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Laughlin Conference >>>From: Philip Mantle <philip.mantle@eidosnet.co.uk> >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Subject: Laughlin Conference >>>Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 18:02:16 -0000 >>>I just wanted to let the List members know that I'll be speaking >>>at the Laughlin, Nevada Conference next week on the subject of >>>Alien Abductions In The UK. This presentation will be based on >>>our book 'Without Consent'. >>Philip, >>Its good to know that somebody reputable (and I know there will >>probably be others) going to Laughlin. So often we get the >>latest load of Reed/Raith type information and other assortments >>of similar speakers. >Then we have Monday, February 3rd or should I call it Planet X >Day: Mark Hazelwood & Prof. James Mccanney - Planet X research >and forecast Sean David Morton - Prophecy, Planet X and the >Pyramid Timeline Donald Ware - Planet X - A Philosophical >Viewpoint Planet X Panel - Today's speakers will join together >for a group discussion and audience Q & A Session. >I have issued statements on Planet X to help distinquish this >fiction from the facts, but for some mysterious reason I am not >one of those to appear on the Panel. Humph! I would like to >suggest Bob Young. Maybe he could bring something to the table. >Bill H. Bill, Or Dick Hall, who probably would emulate Bush Sr. and barf all over the Planet X noodleheads. - Dick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 29 FILER'S FILES #5 -- 2003 From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 17:15:49 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 17:54:26 -0500 Subject: FILER'S FILES #5 -- 2003 FILER'S FILES #5 -- 2003 Skywatch Investigations. George A. Filer, Director Mutual UFO Network Eastern January 28, 2003, Majorstar@aol.com Webmaster: Chuck Warren -- My website is at: Filer's Files web Sponsored by: www.filer.unfranchise.com UFO SIGHTINGS START TO INCREASE WORLDWIDE. The purpose of these files is to report the UFO eyewitness and photo/video evidence that occurs on a daily basis around the world and in space. This report includes an: Unidentified object in space, UFO on NASA Camera, Maine boomerang UFO, New York pulsating object and five discs, West Virginia missing time, Georgia silver sphere investigation, Florida daylight torpedo, Alabama glowing plasma, Mississippi light over Gulf, Illinois beam of lights, Kansas pilot says light paces aircraft, Oklahoma huge orange ball, Texas gold glow, New Mexico diamond, Washington UFO lands in river, Mexico forty spheres, Argentine sightings continue, UK sightings, Finland flames in the sky, United Arab Emirates bright oval body and Australia flash of light. UNIDENTIFIED OBJECTS IN SPACE I was watching NASA TV on my computer on January 16, 2003, at 2:02 PM EST time NASA was broadcasting a live close-up shot of the earth. I saw a round metallic object streak across the earth from right to left at about a 9 o'clock angle from bottom to top and then turn to about 11 o'clock angle upward traveling very fast. The object appeared to blink on and off as it traveled. At this point the camera was zoomed out from what was happening and then paned over to the left and I lost track of the object. This sighting lasted 3 to 6 seconds NUFORC Note: We have spoken with this witness on a number of occasions, and he sounds sincere and credible to us. Jeff Challender, noted follower of the NASA television broadcasts from U. S. space platforms, scanned the tape for the time indicated. Nothing was found. Thanks to Peter Davenport. UFO' ON NASA CAMERA Read the headlines in the "The Perth Times," while the Evening News of Scotland worked the claims into an account that says, "We're Doomed." The images are irrefutable in that they are from official satellites owned by NASA. They resemble the kind of spacecraft we used to see in sci-fi films like Star Trek," Graham Birdsall, editor of UFO magazine, was quoted as saying in the Perth newspaper. Last week, MSNBC.com forwarded press reports about the imagery to Paal Brekke, the European Space Agency's deputy project scientist for SOHO stated, "Ever since launch, there's been people who've projected their fantasies onto the SOHO images, seeing flying saucers and other esoteric objects," he noted. "Mostly, we're just amused by the unfounded claims, but in recent days, we've been receiving so many questions and claims (in news stories) that we'd like to set the record straight: We've never seen anything that even suggests that there are UFOs 'out there.' That is, to our (trained) eyes." Brekke pointed to the new How-to UFO guide on NASA's SOHO Web site. It should be noted that we do see objects moving in SOHO images," the guide said. "Over 500 comets have been discovered in SOHO images, most by amateurs using LASCO data which have been downloaded from the Web. The cosmic-ray hit shown within the white box, part of a much larger image of the sun and its surroundings, was enlarged and processed to produce the UFO-like image seen at the top of this article. See photo at: views Filer's Files UFO Center MAINE BOOMERANG SHAPED SHIP HOVERS OLD TOWN -- Zak Keenan writes, "Last week, Filer's Files reported about a college couple seeing a large flying triangle hovering 200 feet over the Catholic Church at 6:40 PM on January 10, 2003." I am a college student in Old Town, and a frequent reader of your reports, but I am a little skeptical of that UFO report. I was out at 4:30 AM, on January 20, and I too noticed a triangle shaped craft on the north end of Campus facing the direction of downtown Old Town. I was stunned. It was a ways off in the distance and it was hard to get an estimate as to how far away it was. I watched the craft come closer, and seeing how it was triangular shaped I knew it could very easily be the wings of an airplane. In my view of looking at the object I saw two towers that I believe are navigating towers for aircraft flying to Bangor International Airport ten miles to the south. The object I was viewing made very little noise, but I could faintly hear some noise as it moved closer. As much as I wanted to believe it was a UFO, it made more sense to pass the object off as a C5 cargo transport plane that frequents BIA. With the upcoming war in Iraq it only makes sense that they would be out there at night and flying a little lower trying to get more accustomed to flying in those conditions. I appreciate all that you do. Thanks to Zak Keenan Editor's Note: The witnesses described a silent craft hovering over the church at 200 feet altitude. A C-5 aircraft would make tremendous noise and would stall out of the sky at less than 150 mph. NEW YORK PULSATING OBJECT AND FIVE DISCS LOCKPORT -- The witness reports, "I was up 4:45 AM, Friday on January 10, 2003, working at the computer and opened the window to get a breath of fresh air and saw in the distance a hovering light, that was pulsating colors." It looked like somebody took a flashlight and shut it off and on repeatedly, but very quickly. I saw white, the main color with different hues of red and yellow. I watched this for about seven minutes and the light did not move at all, it seemed to be perfectly stationary. I would have expected some movement. Near the end of this event, the light became very bright and then dimmed out with a reddish hue and vanished, sort of "winking" out. HUDSON FALLS -- The witness reports, "On January 16, 2003, between 09:30 and 09:40 AM, I witnessed five orbs or disk shaped objects 18 miles south of Lake George, at extreme altitude heading southeast." The sky was bright blue and the first object was followed in the same flight path by another about 35 seconds behind. The second object was then followed by two more disks one slightly ahead of the other. The third set of objects was then followed by another disk once again 35 seconds behind. They were followed by the fifth disk again 35 seconds behind the fourth. They flew leaving no contrails. Just north of the objects flight path was a jet airliner flying much lower at an estimated 30,000 feet leaving a large contrail. The discs were light blue and silver as the sun glistened off them. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC WEST VIRGINIA MISSING TIME MARTINSBURG -- Bobby Darren (synonym name) writes: "I really enjoy reading your files and experienced some missing time early this morning on January 24, 2003, before I got up for my newspaper route. Also, when I was leaving my house I was startled by a very large dark colored flying triangle hovering 50 feet above our roof, where my bedroom is located. When I left the house the flying triangle tilted slightly and flew off to the east with a really deep sound. The next morning around 4:00 AM as I drove through Eastern West Virginia, I saw six glowing orbs along my route changing from solid colors to a fast pulse. They hovered over houses at tree top level moving very slow from the north to the east. There was also a very big round object with a very bright light out there. This object came up from the ground northeast from my location and was very big. It seemed to follow my movements thru my whole route. I've shown friends and family these objects and we are all left wondering what is going on in our skies. I have tried taking pictures of them before with 400 and 800 speed film, but the local Wal Mart would either lose the film or nothing came out. I was thinking of getting binoculars with a digital camera built in, Radio shack sells them for $99.00. But I would like to talk to somebody that owns a pair first. I didn't see anything Sunday, but this morning I saw a few more orange orbs, and the real big bright object came up from the ground from the south today. Thanks to Bobby Darren GEORGIA SILVER SPHERE INVESTIGATION CAMPBELLTON -- Mark M. Kravitz, FIT and Tome Sheets State Director conducted the investigation of a "silver sphere," seen at 2:20 PM on May 18th, 2002, by a retired Eastern Airlines Commercial Pilot with 20/20 vision. The witness took them out in his yard and explained he was looking at the NW sky above the treeline and saw a silver sphere (like a ball-bearing), move from NW to SE at a high rate of speed before disappearing in seven seconds. The object reflected light but too far away to discern any sound coming from object, nor any specific features. The witness drew a diagram of the sighting and were taken to the area where the sighting took place. He lives in the flight path of Hartsfield International Airport, Atlanta. Based on his knowledge and many years of experience as an airline pilot (retired), he's certain this object was nothing that was recognizable to him. During the formal interview the witness went back over the facts he had written in his personal account and a Form #1 was completed. His facts remained consistent, concise and to the point. He seemed truthful in his story of what occurred, and we found no motives for him to fabricate such an account. He did indicate past encounters with unknown objects while in the cockpit. The witness was found to have had a desire to fly since his early life, and all of his younger years were devoted to achieving this goal. He is also interested in the various activities of the ISS and shuttle missions, and sometimes monitors their orbital passes. He seemed pretty well versed regarding the UFO phenomena in general, having studied it since his first encounter from the cockpit. These investigators are of the impression that he was describing exactly what had occurred in a forthright and truthful manner. No other witnesses have come forward. I contacted the Dobbins AFB PIO office and inquired if they had any similar sightings, but I never heard anything back from the office. We contacted local law enforcement agencies, but there was no record of any UFO reports on that date. These investigators doubt that this was a hoax, due to background of witness, his age, demeanor and previously known reputation. There were three other sightings that this witness has been involved in and he gave us some details of these previous sightings, as well as how he panned for gold near his property. SIGHTING EVALUATION -- Although this case was easy to investigate, due to witness experience and detailed knowledge of event, it was unfortunately not possible to corroborate thru other credible witness reports, photos, videos, etc. However, we both believe he definitely saw a solid type object that was unknown to him, traveling at a high rate of speed across the horizon and definitely was not any type of aircraft that he was familiar with. Due to these limited facts, I determined this event to be classified as an ORDINARY UNKNOWN. Based on his 20+ plus years in the airline industry and his description of the incident, it's our belief that what he saw was NOT any known aircraft. During the interview conducted by MUFONGA's Mark Kravitz, this writer closely observed the witness, adding occasional questions or comments. The witness was observed in the manner of a kinesic or forensic interview, and was found to be totally calm, collected, with all of his facts remaining the same throughout. No signs of stress, nervousness, or negative factors were noticed. This writer's opinion reflects that of Mark Kravitz, that the witness was relating exactly what he observed in the manner of a highly trained professional aviator. He is known to this SD via his interest in astronomy and the monitoring of the orbiting ISS and shuttle missions. Thanks to Tom Sheets, State Director Georgia MUFON mufonga@webtv.net and Mark Kravitz mkravitz@bellsouth.net FLORIDA DAYLIGHT FLYING TORPEDO CAPITOLA -- The witness was feeding his sheep on January 14, 2003, and heard a loud jet engine overhead, so he looked up and saw the jet at about 5,000 feet heading north. Below the jet, at about 1,000 feet I saw a large torpedo shaped object flying south. The jet and noise were gone in about ten seconds; but, the tube was silent, big and slow. It was faster than any blimp, but much slower than a plane like a Cessna 172. It was not a blimp because it was much slimmer, and didn't have a pod beneath or fins or engines. It was shiny as a mirror and I didn't see any wings. I began to scream "look, a spacecraft!" over and over. Three girls ran over and I believe they saw it. My neighbors came out to see what all the fuss was about, but it had passed behind some trees and was about rice grain size. I would estimate its actual size was two semi-trailers. I'm located 15 miles east of Tallahassee. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC ALABAMA ORANGE GLOWING PLASMA CULLMAN -- The witness reports, "My wife had just let the dog out on January 11, 2003, and was watching from the living room window. At 10 PM, she said "Come LOOK at this!" What I beheld was a huge glowing orange plasma like fire? There was an orange ball in the sky to the south-a few miles away. The sky was crystal clear and no moon. The object had a trail of very thin plasma coming up off of it and coming down below it giving it a shape like a bulbous ice sickle. It continued north straight toward our house and the plasma faded slowly and revealed either a diamond shaped or triangular shaped craft with a row of greenish lights all the way across the bottom. It also had blinking lights on the wing tips and there was NO sound! MOUNDVILLE -- On January 16, 2003, at 4:25 AM, I spotted a UFO. This is the third time I have seen these objects in less than a month in this area. After the first time I was scared if I had really seen it, but since then I was obsessed to explain what I had seen. So a friend and I went to the same spot where we saw the object the first time. This time there were two objects that were round with glowing light beams coming out of them. They changed shapes and moved in a zigzag formation. I have a very clear video of one object, as it moved and we were able to follow it for fifty miles. On the video you can see clearly that the beams change colors, the object changes shape, moves very fast and makes no sound. I want someone to look at this video. MOUNDVILLE -- Two egg shaped objects were observed moving in a 'Z' pattern on January 6, by several witnesses who stated, "The batteries and lights on our vehicle stopped when two egg shaped objects approached us." BOAZ -- Also, on January 16, 2003, the witness reports seeing a white craft that changed to different colors at 12:30 AM as it hovered. The top seemed to open up and it looked like something poked its head out and then the arms raised. Then a figure seemed to parachute out of the circle and it floated down for a ways. Then it looked like it changed into a small plane and then disappeared. NUFORC MISSISSIPPI ODD LIGHTS OVER GULF OF MEXICO BILOXI -- My fianc=E9 and I were driving west on Beach Boulevard on January 12, 2003, and had just passed the Keesler AFB entrance when we saw a string of lights hovering over the water at 7 PM. We passed some trees and looked over the water and the string of lights just "disappeared." Then we saw an aircraft coming from Keesler headed toward the UFO, like it was going to investigate the same area. We noticed that the traffic on the other side of the road was slowing down also, so they probably saw what we saw. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC WISCONSIN BIRD FLEES INTO TRANSPARENT CRAFT WAUWATOSA -- The witness reports he was driving on January 8, 2003, at 4:30 PM, when he noticed a bird flying along about 50 feet above the ground. It was just flying swiftly through the wind, and then BAM, it stopped dead flight just like it hit a wall. I assure you that their was nothing in the way that could disrupt my view, but the wounded bird then fell and hit the road. Whatever it hit was transparent. Interestingly, the street lights at this intersection where this occurred have been messed up for three days now. It was very strange. NUFORC INDIANA TWO LIGHTS IN SKY QUICKLY CHANGED POSITIONS NORTH JUDSON/KNOX -- I am a 20 year old girl currently living with my 31 year old boyfriend and our 6 month old baby girl. On January 15, 2003, 7:20 AM, I was on my way to an 8:00 AM appointment on State Highway 10 headed east. My boyfriend's mother was driving when I looked out and saw two lights beside each other like a pair of eyes, They switched places pretty fast and flew off in opposite directions to the east and west. I don't know why, but I didn't tell my boyfriends Mom. After traveling seven more minutes we entered the Knox Welfare Office. I looked out the window and saw what could've been one of objects headed south until it was really small. I turned away convinced of my first sighting. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC ILLINOIS STRANGE VERTICAL LIGHTS CHICAGO -- The witness reports that on my drive home on January 13, 2003, at 9:30 PM, I noticed that the sky was much brighter than normal. I noticed vertical lights in the sky that seemed to be projecting light from the sky to the ground. On my journey home I must have seen about 40 - 50 of these lights. Some of those lights where alone and others where paired up in 3 - 4 lights equidistance of one another. What's strange is that these lights couldn't have been commercial advertisement because they could be seen for a distance of 10 - 20 miles away? I called a few friends in different areas and they all confirmed the lights, as well as some callers did to a popular music station that I was listening to at the time. At about 10:00 PM, I took out my digital camera and took a few pictures. At the same time I saw military aircraft flying around. Thanks to Peter Davenport KANSAS FLASHING LIGHT KEEPS PACE WITH AIRCRAFT WICHITA -- Around 8:30 PM, on January 8, 2003, I was flying a commercial propjet from Dallas to Wichita when I noticed a flashing of light to the port side. The light was far enough behind the wing that I doubt the cabin crew saw it. We were flying at 18,000 feet. The flashing light paced our aircraft in steady northward direction. I can only describe the flashing as what the tail of a sparkler looks like or a Roman candle. I noticed that the flashing would illuminate trees, so it was very close to the ground. It appeared that the light was occasionally traveling through trees. The light would flare-up and then it would go dark for 1-5 seconds and then appear again. The flashing light would only occur in dark spots on the ground as if it was intentionally bypassing areas of man-made illumination. I turned, and asked a fellow passenger if he saw the light, and he replied in the affirmative. When the flashing light reached the south side of Wichita, it then turned to the west and I lost sight of it. It appeared that the light deliberately avoided flying into Wichita. I did not see an object, only the flashing light. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC OKLAHOMA HUGE ORANGE BALL NORMAN -- The witness who occupies a position of responsibility in social care was in his backyard at 1:27 AM, on January 11, 2003, when he saw a huge semicircle with vague light above it in a flatter formation. The observer states, "The sphere was bright orange with black tendrils of various shapes on the surface and at first I thought it might be the moon, but it was too low and strange." I found the moon much higher and it was a white quarter moon. This object was definitely round, though it looked as if the sphere had been cut off at the top, like an upside down dome. I ran inside and got my video camera and followed it the whole way down into the tree tops where it looked like it sat on the tree tops for a while. I went in to call my sister, a pilot, and it was gone when I came back out. I checked my camera but the film did not come out. Thanks to Peter Davenport TEXAS LIGHTS AND CONTRAILS DALLAS -- At 7 AM, on January 16, 2003, at 4:25 AM, I noticed a large lit object, almost directly overhead and I called to my wife to see the VERY bright planet. When we looked again some ten minutes later, it had moved about a foot at arm's length which is too far for a celestial object to move in a short time frame. Fifteen minutes later; we both saw that it had disappeared! As I drove her to work, we saw contrails of two VERY fast moving jets converging on the EXACT spot where the light had been. They crossed this same patch of sky over and over again in an "x" pattern. It seemed to be searching for the object for about fifteen minutes. I returned home, I got binoculars to observe, and could only make out the contrails (puffy, and definitely corkscrewed) converging again and again on this same spot for at least thirty 30 minutes. Then the light reappeared and I see it was round with a shadow! Both jets made tight turns and converged on the spot again. They were a foot away at arm's length when the light blinked off! As the planes crossed each other, I saw the light reappear to the south two feet away at arm's length! Again, the jets executed tight turns and converged on the same spot, only to have the light disappear again. This occurred two more times, and then the light disappeared totally. I witnessed the short, jagged contrail- producing jets crisscross that patch of sky repeatedly until 10:30 AM. I saw a multitude of Sweets and American Airlines planes flying low producing no trails. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC NEW MEXICO DIAMOND SHAPED UFO ROSWELL -- Pat O'Rourke writes, "I am a 53 year old retired health care worker and Chaplain. Two friends from Pennsylvania went with me to Roswell, NM for my birthday on January 11, 2003. We drove west outside Roswell to look at the night sky and slightly east we saw what looked like a very large bright star at least 25,000 feet high that was diamond shaped. It was clear out after a rain with just some clouds here and there, with one that seemed to circle this star. All of a sudden the "star" made swift movements to the right and back and than a bit up and down. For the most part it seemed to move right a small space and back again rapidly. We ALL said "DID YOU SEE THAT?" We all watched for a time and then got back in the car. Thanks to Pat O'Rourke Bucks County, PA. WASHINGTON BRIGHT GREEN BALL LANDING IN RIVER RIDGEFIELD -- The witness stated, "We were sitting watching TV at 7:45 PM, when my friend said, "WOW!" I looked just in time to see a green ball fly through the sky and appear to land in one of the rivers, but can't be sure." On January 14, 2003, a bright green colored ball of light came from the northeast going at a rapid speed to the southwest and seemed to land in the river. Our home sits along three rivers: the Columbia; Lake and Cam. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC MEXICO FORTY SPHERES SEEN OVER YUCATAN PROGRESO -- Ms. Mar=EDa Barrera, 42, says that on January 17, 2003, she saw 40 glowing metallic spheres over the Port of Progreso bridge leading to the harbor area. The spheres were rising and descending and seemed unaffected by the prevailing wind. This discards the possibility that they were balloons or flocks of birds. After a brief time period, the spheres disappeared toward the horizon. She said that last year, she and construction workers saw 80 spheres executing a variety of movements over the same site. Thanks to Scott Corrales Translation (C) 2003, IHU. and David Triay Lucatero. ARGENTINA UFO SIGHTINGS CONTINUE BUENOS AIRES PROVINCE -- Numerous sightings have been reported in different communities during January of 2003. On Saturday, January 11, numerous blue, red and green, fireballs were reported over the city of Buenos Aires. They were moving at variable speeds and following flight patterns unattainable by commercial aircraft. On January 17, 2003, an electrical technician saw an intense white light over the coastal city of Necochea. The object engaged in a variety of maneuvers and made no noise. In the city of San Andres de Giles, Juan Carlos Ferreto was startled to see the perfect seven meter circle in his soybean field that appeared that a disc had landed burning the grass. It left a talc-like ash at its center but the rest of the plants were very green, and 40 centimeters high. Juanc Carlos Mendizabal remembers at the same spot on September 4, 1981, another ash-filled circle was discovered, a large Australian water tank was drained, and the electrical system (fuses, wires and windings) had completely melted. Thanks to Scott Corrales Translation =A9 2003, IHU and Guillermo Gim=E9nez, UNITED KINGDOM STRANGE DAYLIGHT BRIGHT LIGHTS PLYMOUTH -- In the last few weeks my husband and I on three separate occasions have seen strange lights in the daylight sky, that are unnaturally bright, like an artificial light. They could also be seen through clouds. On January 14, 2003, at 4:15 PM, they were completely stationery and seemed too large to be any type of aircraft. The three events lasted for almost a minute and the objects were gone. This happened at very busy times and it would be interesting to know if other people have seen anything? NUFORC FINLAND THERE WERE FLAMES IN THE SKY ESPOO (KILO) -- There were flames in the sky on January 7, 2003, at 10:15 PM, that looked like an airplane on fire or a candle. At first, it was about same size of an aircraft, and then it moved away from us and became smaller and smaller. The flames were yellow and looked just like a little camp fire. There was not any kind of sounds. The fireball duration was for about two minutes. UNITED ARAB EMIRATES BRIGHT OVAL BODY SARAH -- The witness reports that, "I was looking towards the place where the sunrises in the east on January 12, 2003, just prior to the time of sun rise." A bright oval body appeared surrounded by brighter spots at 45 degrees elevation above the horizon. I tried to take a photo with my camera, but unfortunately the batteries were empty. When I came back to the balcony five minutes later the oval body had disappeared. NUFORC AUSTRALIA BRIEF FLASH OF BRIGHT LIGHT PEMBERTON (WESTERN AUSTRALIA) --At 9:39 PM, a bright flash of white light (like a camera flash) lasting a half a second was observed in the southern sky 30 degrees to the west of the Southern Cross constellation and 60 degrees above the horizon on January 14, 2003. The sky was clear and no sound heard. The sighting was in a country region 20 kilometers from the town of Pemberton in the south west of Western Australia. WYREEMA -- Driving home on January 2, 2003, at 10 PM, last night, looking through the front windscreen of our car, my wife and I both saw a bright pale blue, oval shaped object. It traveled from left to right about one-third of the way across the windscreen and turned away from us at ninety degrees and traveled about half way down the windscreen, it did a little left to right wiggle and disappeared. I think it would have been about five kilometers away, it was a clear night on a country road, it appeared and disappeared with nothing blocking our view, and the whole event took place in less then five seconds. When I saw it, I said nothing to my wife, because I have never seen anything like that. I was spooked when my wife said, "What was that?" with a stunned look on her face. SOLVE YOUR HEALTH POLLUTION PROBLEMS Don Kile writes: "I have had allergies or asthma like respiratory problems that seem related to chemtrails/contrails or the general engine burning pollution in our air. I know that if I breathe car exhaust fumes, or get near certain plants, I start sneezing, coughing, my back hurts, and my eyes and my nose runs. Your Isotonix OPC-3 is the only product that has cleared these problems. I though perhaps it was a fluke so I stopped taking it for a couple weeks. My symptoms appeared again and I remembered that for a dollar a day OPC-3 was well worth it. After a couple days I was breathing normal again. Thanks for showing me this product from the Health and Food Store. SHOP AT THE MALL WITHOUT WALLS WITH 100 STORES There is a store for your every special need, and you qualify as a preferred customer by reading these files. Register as a Preferred Customer and pick the store of your choice for special discounts. Search for the Health and Nutrition Store or Isotonix OPC-3 You can use Visa or Master charge at: www.filer.unfranchise.com WHAT YOU SHOULD KNOW WHEN BUY OR SELL A HOME Learn how you can obtain the best real estate agent for your needs. To get a free copy of this report e-mail me at Majorstar@aol.com MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative reports subscribe to the MUFON JOURNAL. A MUFON membership includes the Journal and costs only $35.00 per year. To join MUFON or to report a UFO go to http://www.mufon.com/. To ask questions contact MUFONHQ@aol.com or HQ@mufon.com. Mention that I recommended you for membership. Filer's Files is copyrighted 2003 by George A. Filer, all rights reserved. Readers may post the complete files on their Web Sites if they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue that the item appeared. These reports and comments are not necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON viewpoint. Send your letters to Majorstar@aol.com. Sending mail automatically grants permission for us to publish and use your name. Please state if you wish to keep your name, address, or story confidential. CAUTION, MOST OF THESE ARE INITIAL REPORTS AND REQUIRE FURTHER INVESTIGATION. Regards, George A. Filer www.Georgefiler.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 29 Dubbo Residents Reporting Strange Sightings From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 18:04:29 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 18:04:29 -0500 Subject: Dubbo Residents Reporting Strange Sightings http://dubbo.yourguide.com.au/detail.asp?class=news&subclass=local&category=gene ral%20news&story_id6023&y03&m=1 Residents Reporting Strange Sightings Nikki Roberts Wednesday, 29 January 2003 Local people have reported strange objects in the sky above Dubbo recently prompting an appeal from the Independent Network of UFO Researchers (INUFOR) for anyone with similar sightings to come forward. On Tuesday January 14 about 8pm a family on a property between Dubbo and Parkes saw something in the evening sky they couldn't explain, according to INUFOR co-ordinator Moira McGhee. "It was one report but several members of the same family witnessed it," she said. "They saw an oval-shaped ball in the sky, glowing gold in colour. "The object was roughly the size of a large plane, but had no flashing lights. It was very bright and travelled east to west across the northern sky. "The man said it was moving quite fast - faster than a 747 plane, but slower than a military jet. "He said its speed, colour and trajectory remained constant throughout the flight and the object moved soundlessly." Ms McGhee said INUFOR had not yet ruled out the possibility it was a satellite, but based on her information she said it was highly unlikely this was the case. "The man had seen something similar to this in the sky at an earlier date, and he also said he had seen satellites before and this object did not resemble a satellite in any way," Ms McGhee said. A lot of INUFOR's reports have been from rural people and Ms McGhee said they were one of the most reliable witnesses. "The man did not embellish the story, or make it fanciful or entertaining," she said. "He was very straight in what he said, and he was reluctant to come forward." It is not the first report of strange objects in the central western sky with Ms McGhee recounting a "spate" of sightings about six years ago. "A Queensland couple was travelling through Dubbo on the Newell Highway on their way home from a holiday in Victoria," she said. "They were travelling in a coach following behind a truck, and they were seated in the front seat, in earshot of the UHF radio. "The truck driver said 'can you see that mate' and the bus driver replied `I sure can', and the couple looked up to see a giant glowing disc in the sky, much larger than the shops it was passing over." Ms McGhee is urging anyone with information about the recent glowing ball or any strange sighting in the sky to come forward and report it to INUFOR on (02) 4757 3848. [UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 29 Religion's Final Frontier From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 18:17:58 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 18:17:58 -0500 Subject: Religion's Final Frontier http://www.newsday.com/features/printedition/ny-p2top23106377jan29,0,4220889.sto ry?coll=ny%2Dfeatures%2Dprint Religion's Final Frontier Space holds keys for believers in extraterrestrials By Carol Eisenberg STAFF WRITER January 29, 2003 Angels are one thing. You can talk about angels without being dismissed as a nutcase. But just try talking about extraterrestrials as your spiritual guides. These are trying times for followers of so-called spaceship religions, who believe we share the cosmos with other intelligent beings. First came the 1997 mass suicide by members of Heaven's Gate, who believed that the arrival of Hale-Bopp, an unusually bright comet, was a sign to shed their earthly "containers." Then, last month, the Raelians made world headlines after announcing they had cloned Baby Eve - a claim now generally considered a hoax perpetrated by the group that believes humans were "seeded" by little green men. "The Raelians have been the worst thing for UFO believers since Heaven's Gate," one believer grumbled recently in Manhattan. Although such notorious stories are grist for the tabloid mill, they obscure the fact that dozens of new religious groups embrace the idea of extraterrestrial life and purport to meld science and spirituality, not to mention what outsiders regard as science fiction. "There are quite a few spaceship religions, though none of them is very large at this point," said the Rev. John Saliba, a Jesuit priest and sociologist at the University of Detroit-Mercy in Michigan, who has studied spaceship religions for 40 years. "The UFO symbolism fits into our culture," Saliba said. "After all, we have space travel. We have attempted to communicate with life on other planets." Indeed, given the relentless pace of exploration in our time, Saliba said, it was inevitable that the question of man's place in the universe - and, indeed, the nature of that universe itself - would be questioned anew. One of the oldest and best-known spaceship religions is the Aetherius Society, based in Hollywood, Calif. The group was founded by the late George King, a British yoga master who said he began receiving messages from extraterrestrials in May 1954, when a voice told him: "Prepare yourself. You are to become the voice of Interplanetary Parliament." Based on his communication with the Cosmic Masters, as he called them, King trumpeted that humans were on the verge of a new millennium when religion and science would merge, and the barriers between different religions, races and cultures would come down. He also said that extraterrestrials were helping humans evolve. "We are dedicated to spiritual truth," said current-day director Paul Nugent, who oversees a global organization of several thousand followers from Europe to Asia, including several hundred in the United States. "And the evidence for UFOs is overwhelming - and that, in turn, has spiritual implications. But that doesn't mean we have to go loopy. It's another aspect of this incredible creation we are all a part of." Nugent said he "shudders" at comparisons with groups such as the Raelians or Heaven's Gate, "who come to public notice because of some of the far-out things they've done." Most believers in extraterrestrial life do not start new religions as King did, but rather, adapt or reinterpret their own long-standing religious beliefs. The Rev. Michael Carter, 45, a New York hospital chaplain, describes himself as a former Bible-thumping Baptist, until he had a personal encounter with an extraterrestrial on Sept. 28, 1989, in his Upper West Side Manhattan apartment. Now, his views are dramatically less dogmatic. "I woke up, and my apartment was lit up in this bright white- bluish light, and there was a being at the edge of my bed with a bald, pear-shaped head with wraparound black eyes," he said. Carter said he didn't believe in extraterrestrials then, and imagined he had lost his mind. He went to see a therapist, in addition to doing extensive reading about UFOs. But his encounters continued, and they "broadened my view," he said, impelling him to write his master's thesis on UFOs and the Bible at Union Theological Seminary. Today, he is convinced that many so-called Biblical miracles were actually UFO encounters. "Look at the Exodus from Egypt," Carter said. "What do they follow? A pillar of cloud by day, and a pillar of fire by night. The ancients may not have known what vocabulary to use, but certainly there were things happening in the sky similar to what is happening today." Many followers of the Urantia Book, a 2,097-page spiritual tome purportedly dictated by "superhuman beings," also say they believe in the all-powerful God related in the Judeo-Christian- Muslim tradition. But they understand Him as the creator of a much more expansive universe. The book, which has sold 600,000 copies over the past half- century, tells of millions of inhabited worlds in various stages of biological, intellectual, social and spiritual evolution, and offers an elaborate history of our own planet, which the authors call "Urantia." It also offers 700 pages on the life and teachings of Jesus Christ. Contractor Robin Jorgensen, who holds weekly study groups in his SoHo apartment, admits some of its assertions are "bizarre" but objects when people categorize The Urantia Book as a spaceship religion. "I hate that," the 50-year-old devotee said. "I mean, we're not waiting to be picked up by aliens, or for some divine intervention to heal our planet.... We're just normal people trying to find our way." Jorgensen describes himself as a Lutheran who had devoured many of the classics of philosophy and science fiction before he happened upon The Urantia Book 20 years ago. Today, he says, he is a far more grounded human being. "I'm an extremely successful contractor who supervises large, dirty men in an often dangerous atmosphere," he said. "And the reason I'm good at what I do is because my treatment of my fellow human beings has been tempered with a much greater knowledge of who they are and who I am." And if those insights came to him via celestial or extraterrestrial guides, Jorgensen said, "that's OK with me. They seem all right to me." Copyright C. 2003, Newsday, Inc. [UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 30 Re: Corso - Bennett From: Colin Bennett <colin@bennettc25.fsnet.co.uk> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 23:52:46 -0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 08:16:38 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Bennett >From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 12:20:13 --0700 >Subject: Re: Corso - Connors Dear Wendy, I am so sorry that my post offended you. The trouble is that it is not my fault. As you will see from my post, the Brentford Polonius himself encouraged me to write more interesting stuff. His appreciation of my work and his encouragement came at a time when I was thinking about being as boring, factual, predictable and mundane and "scientifically objective" and and sensible indeed as Mother Hall and Mother Aldrich. The trouble is darling, that once you've been affected by von Brentford's infectious humour, there's no stopping. I was, as I say prepared to be a reformed character and wear sensible shoes and present unsmiling arguments based on facts and research and all the rest of the petite-bourgeois fantasies of the late 17th century trading classes. So I say here and now to anyone who is angry or upset about my previous post, please complain to the Brentford Polonius (the editor of Magonia Magazine) in the strongest terms about getting the Bad Man all worked up again and into his bad ways. The trouble is Wendy that I can't turn back now. After Goldstein, who next? I am working on a script for a List Musical. I'm calling it Factspeil. I'm working with George Fox, a musical and film director I have worked with before, and we can have a West End UFO show with a clog dance done by Jan and Dick, and this Goldstein guy doing the catering. Already I have talked to a director I have worked with before, and some backers are interested. As always with shows, it is a question of raising the money. Let's face it Ufology is dead square. It's desperately middle-aged and frowsty and po-faced. It needs a face-lift for Christ sake, or it will sink to the level of chapels, downtown police meet the public meets, and train- spotting clubs. I have already discussed some sets with a designer: imagine the set possibilities, darling Wendy: the web sites becoming live information animals: Jan sits at his desk one night and Project 1947 comes alive around him, like toy-maker's figures in Pinnochio. Instead of scowling in the dark, I could make him a star. We've already got some people in mind to play him, but I don't want to say too much in case he goes to ground again. He's a bit shy, is our Jan. Whilst we can read him, we can photograph him for development if you know what I means. You like that? I'm going do the script. I mean all that comic factual certainty and "objective research" trip is simply ripe for a West End musical. Maybe Factspeil could even make Broadway, I don't know. I said in a previous post, you're nobody if you haven't been cursed by Andy Roberts, and next year, if you're not in Factspiel, Panzerben's Dancing Fantasia of Factual Objective Belief Gurus, you'll be yesterday, nobody, and not nothing nowhere nohow if you know what I mean, darling. We've sketched out some scenes already: (1) An Andy Roberts cursing scene (2) A chorus line of document boxes chanting factspiel, labres and docbox. (3) A scene in which someone says that they are not going to read posts anymore, yet they creep to the bathroom and read them by torchlight. Wendy girl, let's face it, I'm absolutely irrestable. Where would you be without me? I mean all those lights in the sky and policeman's torches and scared couples down country lanes. I mean do me a favour, darling! (4) UFO "researchers" with butterfly nets, jam jars, and 19th century pension books. (5) A scene in which "facts" are presented and the audience die one by one of grief until the aisles look like the sculptured dead of a war memorial. (6) A 19th century lab scene with 19th century talk -- revealed -- it's 2003. Chorus: "A mechanism a day keep the purple cloaks away. When the scientists speak the fantasists grow weak The dreams just die 'cos the facts don't lie...." I've got million of 'em, baby! It's the latest turn-on is a Colin Bennett post! I'd show you my private e-mail darling, but I think I will wait until you're over twenty-one. Colin (Bad Man) Bennett Now go to bed now Wendy and don't forget that you must not read this post. List Bears, you must admit you don't get entertainment like this every night. Wasn't Wendy just absolutely wonderful, my dears? What a howl! We must have her up front again. She's got talent. She's not quite up to Andy Robert's level yet at all, but she's coming on. Certainly I think my next long post on postmodernism will do it, although I warn you Wendy that it is longer than the average TV commercial, so I give you due warning. But whatever you say and do, darling, like Roberts and Mother Jan, I shall make you a star despite yourself! Well, here's to the next performers in line, that's what I say. I've got a show for every one, so watch this space, Bears! This is the show where certainties fail, hopes are dashed and reputations split asunder to laughter and applause. All comers are welcome. The Big Top is this way. But don't think before you climb into the ring. That's the best way to do it. What next complainer is going to take the stage and we can have some fun! They will all have different complaints, and I shall have a canvas for each one. The good complainers may even earn a full oil in the Fortean Times later this year. Wendy, promise not to peek at my replies, now! Meantime, we'll all meet in Fortean Times 168 next month when my oil of Oberg will be on public display Question - Where's Corso?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 30 Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Peterborough From: Kelly Peterborough <kellymcg@attcanada.ca> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 20:16:19 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 09:42:38 -0500 Subject: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Peterborough >From: Wm. Michael Mott <mottimorph@earthlink.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 09:48:37 -0600 (CST) >Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs >>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 00:08:29 -0800 >>Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Hatch >>I'm going to have to snip a lot, and cut to the chase here. >>Nobody wants to sift thru long agonizing arguments. >I agree! Thanks for writing back so quickly. Just a quick note to say I hope my cross-post didn't cause confusion; I'm happy you joined UpDates Mike, and can talk about your theories regardings UFO without me interpreting them! For those of you who don't know, Mike has written a book called Caverns, Cauldrons & Concealed Creatures, which is very interesting! Kelly
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 30 Re: Religion's Final Frontier - Peterborough From: Kelly Peterborough <kellymcg@attcanada.ca> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 20:23:12 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 09:45:16 -0500 Subject: Re: Religion's Final Frontier - Peterborough >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >To: <- UFO UpDates Subscribers -> >Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 18:17:58 -0500 >Subject: Religion's Final Frontier >Source: Newsday >http://www.newsday.com/features/printedition/ny-p2top23106377jan29,0,4220889 >.story?coll=ny%2Dfeatures%2Dprint >Religion's Final Frontier >Space holds keys for believers in extraterrestrials <snip> >Most believers in extraterrestrial life do not start new >religions as King did, but rather, adapt or reinterpret their >own long-standing religious beliefs. I'd like to hear Mike Mott's views on this - Mike, you believe that most UFO activity is terrestrial in origin, right? If so, then did you adapt or re-interpret your long-standing religious beliefs? Kelly
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 30 Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Sparks From: Brad Sparks Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 20:38:42 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 09:49:16 -0500 Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Sparks >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 00:08:29 -0800 >Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs >>From: Wm. Michael Mott <mottimorph@earthlink.net> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 22:46:59 -0600 >>Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs <snip> >>I believe the original reply to my contention that many or most >>long-range UFO flight-paths, if carefully examined, tend to >>follow a roughly north-south or south-north pattern, met with >>some heady skepticism. <snip> >Here are some numbers. Out of a total (today 29JAN03) of 12639 >*U* listings, 29.5% or 5296 sightings had some indication of >direction of travel. Some cases had UFOs departing in multiple >directions, so totals will exceed 5296. >The Trajectories routine scans the Synopsis field looking for >final directions of travel, denoted >N, >SE, >>SSW and the like. >Two arrow brackets indicate high speed. <snip> >Adding North to South for N-S (either polar direction) >and likewise East + West for E-W flights, I get >Polar (Longitudinal) = N + S = 3564. >-and- (Latitudinal) = E + W = 3500. >Yes, there is a slight N-S excess, but few statisticians would >pay much attention to it. A deviation of 64 cases out of 7,064 >is 64/7096 = 0.00906 = 0.906 percent. <snip> Hi Larry, Unfortunately I think these statistics are invalid. Most witnesses cannot tell the direction of travel and there is enormous confusion of the object's _heading_ (direction of travel) with the _direction_ the object was _seen_ in, which are usually two different things and unrelated to each other except in the instances where the object flies directly overhead above the witness. For example, if a witness sees an object low on the horizon in the west and it moves to the right and disappears in the NW, what was its heading? You can't say it is "NW" just because that was the "final direction" it was seen in. It could have traveled exactly S-N. It could have traveled almost exactly E- W, and any range of possibilities in between. An extremely careful and competent observer might have seen some perspective changes giving a clue as to the direction of travel, but often we don't know who is a careful competent observer, especially if it's just a tabular computer listing in a database. Meteorite tracker Lincoln LaPaz thought the Green Fireballs of 1948-9 were mostly in N-S trajectories possibly because they were Soviet missiles. A few cases had E-W paths. But these were _all_ flight paths that had been _triangulated_ from high quality multiple witness data in differing locations. Single witness single-station observations usually cannot give you a flight heading unless the object passes right overhead. If it passes directly overhead and it was first seen in the S and last seen in the N then it was on a S-N trajectory. This is basic physics and geometry. Regards, Brad Sparks
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 30 More On Wrong Roswell Dig Site From: Brad Sparks Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 23:18:17 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 09:54:34 -0500 Subject: More On Wrong Roswell Dig Site I have received more discrepant coordinates for the Debris Field and even the site where the UNM did the archaeological excavation. My thanks to Larry Bryant for "digging" out the email copies from the packet of UNM documents that he pressed them to release. For discussion see my post on Jan 27 and don't pretend you couldn't find it or I will just re-post it all: http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2003/jan/m27-010.shtml Latitude N Longitude W [Removed by Moderator] Brad Sparks
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 30 Re: Laughlin Conference - Gates From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 00:50:05 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 09:56:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Laughlin Conference - Gates >From: Tom King <tomking2030@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 17:59:15 +0000 >Subject: Re: Laughlin Conference >>From: Philip Mantle <philip.mantle@eidosnet.co.uk> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Subject: Laughlin Conference >>Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 18:02:16 -0000 >>I just wanted to let the List members know that I'll be speaking >>at the Laughlin, Nevada Conference next week on the subject of >>Alien Abductions In The UK. This presentation will be based on >>our book 'Without Consent'. >>If any List members are attending the conference please drop by >>the UFO Magazines (UK) booth and say hello, as I'll be >>travelling over with them. >Hello Philip and List, >I thought about going this year since it's only a couple hours >drive from my location. I decided not to attend since it's the >same club of people every year. >Then there's Sean David Morton and Steven Greer. With all the >hard working UFO researchers out there can't they find someone >with better qualifications then those two? On top of that one of >the speakers is a convicted child molester who speaks every >year! Tom, list, Seems my memory is failing. Which speaker is the convicted child molester who speaks every year? Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 30 Re: Laughlin Conference - Gates From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 00:57:57 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 09:58:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Laughlin Conference - Gates >From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 13:31:21 -0800 >Subject: Re: Laughlin Conference >>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 14:16:10 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Laughlin Conference >>>From: Philip Mantle <philip.mantle@eidosnet.co.uk> >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Subject: Laughlin Conference >>>Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 18:02:16 -0000 >>>I just wanted to let the List members know that I'll be speaking >>>at the Laughlin, Nevada Conference next week on the subject of >>>Alien Abductions In The UK. This presentation will be based on >>>our book 'Without Consent'. >>Philip, >>Its good to know that somebody reputable (and I know there will >>probably be others) going to Laughlin. So often we get the >>latest load of Reed/Raith type information and other assortments >>of similar speakers. >Then we have Monday, February 3rd or should I call it Planet X >Day: Mark Hazelwood & Prof. James Mccanney - Planet X research >and forecast Sean David Morton - Prophecy, Planet X and the >Pyramid Timeline Donald Ware - Planet X - A Philosophical >Viewpoint Planet X Panel - Today's speakers will join together >for a group discussion and audience Q & A Session. Hi Bill, I got an email a month or two ago blathering about Planet X at Laughlin. When I suggested something along the lines of Planet X Hazelwood theory was a load of crap, the person said that they agreed with me, but that "the people wanted it..." I suppose if the "people" wanted to see an actual demonstration of a cattle mute, whomever would probably sponser it....along with greys eating strawberry icecream and guzzling Draino..... :) >I have issued statements on Planet X to help distinquish this >fiction from the facts, but for some mysterious reason I am not >one of those to appear on the Panel. Humph! I would like to >suggest Bob Young. Maybe he could bring something to the table. Shocked, I am just shocked!..... :) Why bother with facts when the people apparently want to be entertained with fictional theories, wild tales and the latest of impending doom and gloom? Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 30 Necessary Speculation From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 02:35:40 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 10:05:38 -0500 Subject: Necessary Speculation Hi All, We are always endlessly debating whether UFOs represent a nuts and bolts reality or something else. As a result, it is anathema to ever speculate about what may be the reason or purpose of these craft/beings. Not without running the risk of having your head chopped off. Just for the 'halibut' I'd like to speculate a bit and I'd like to invite anyone else who may wish to do so, to please chime in. If UFOs represent 'somebody else's' technology... this exercise is some thing we _need_ to do. It's also a healthy psychological workout. Stretches the mind and it's boundaries a bit. Speculation: Based on the fact that images that appear to be UFOs are depicted in paintings and other works of art that are hundreds of years old, which may even be depicted in ancient cave paintings, I think it's safe to say that the phenomena connected to anomalous aerial objects is not a new development in human history. (Did not start in 1947) Whoever or whatever these craft/beings may be, they have apparently been around for centuries, if not eons of time. For all intents and purposes the much dreaded 'invasion' was apparently over long before our ancestors climbed out of the trees and started walking upright. I'm not going to get into all the biblical and other historical references because we are all familiar with them. We can all pretty much agree that it is open to other interpretations. For the purposes of this speculative discussion, suffice it to say that (if) all of this unexplained history _is_ tied to UFOs and their occupants/builders, it indicates that we - the whole human race - have been living in some kind of symbiotic relationship with another race of beings that have kept themselves (when it suits their purposes) hidden from us. There are many indications that 'they' have directed (interfered with) human history and development from behind the scenes for a very long time. The whole thing smacks of a gigantic social/biological experiment on a very grand scale. On a scale that only a very old and very advanced technological civilization could plan, coordinate and execute. To quote Courty Bryan, "For the first time in our history we are studying something that's studying us!" And there's the rub... this time, _we_ are what is in the Petrie dish. Not the other way around. This time _we_ are the Indians not the Conquistadors. If this study includes following the genetic/biological and social evolution of our species, then the whole abduction phenomenon becomes clear and takes on a new meaning. It makes sense that certain blood-lines would be monitored over time. It would also make sense that they would need to keep themselves as hidden from view as necessary in order not to tip their presence too early on in the 'experiment' (study). There may have been times in our history when these beings have lived openly among us. That they may have "found the daughters of men to be fair and taken them as wives." Thereby introducing/mixing their own genetic material with ours. That would make us, _all_ of us, a hybrid-race. Just about all of the implications of the UFO phenomenon are nothing short of earth-shattering. To further speculate, the modern increase in UFO activity and UFO awareness may be a prelude to the re-introduction of the presence and reality of these beings into our history and our daily lives. It might not hurt some of us to begin to seriously entertain these possibilities. If nothing else it would serve to lessen the psychological shock should 'they' make their presence known in some sudden, dramatic or surprising fashion. 'If you stay ready... you won't have to get ready!' ;) I've just been spending some time trying to make sense of it all. It's an exercise that helps me to maintain my equilibrium and sanity in the face of what I _know_ is happening to me and mine. And to many others as well. I honestly don't think that we need to 'fear' the possibilities. I do think it's necessary that we are at least (internally) prepared to face any eventuality. It's better than getting caught with your psychological nickers down around your ankles. Just speculating. Anyone? Regards to All, John Velez 'Involuntary involvee' in the UFO phenomon Sign the International Petition to the United Nations for disclosure of information pertaining to UFOs. http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 30 Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Hebert From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 02:44:36 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 10:08:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Hebert >From: Wm. Michael Mott <mottimorph@earthlink.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 09:48:37 -0600 (CST) >Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs >>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 00:08:29 -0800 >>Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Hatch <snip> >>I just read on another List that it has been 'verified' >>(no sources cited) that the 'majority'(no percentage given) >>of UFOs flight-paths take a north to south or south to >>north direction. <snip> Gentlemen, Excuse me for jumping in but categorizing UFOs according to the directions they fly is like categorizing flies according to the poop they prefer (IMHO). Seems to me that if there is some type of intelligence flying those things, they would more likely use a combination of instruments as well as nap of the earth navigation to find their way rather than following mere north-west-east-south patterns. Designating N-W-E-S patterns for UFOs is one dimensional. To study the flight patterns of UFOs we must also examine the overall, 3-D environment that exists above, below and around an object in flight. Ever notice how low flying UFOs are often sighted traveling parallel, criss-crossing, zigzag or flying directly over a highway, road, river or high power lines? Do they really have an obsession with these landmarks or could they be using them for navigation? Take a look at navigation maps for pilots and you will see all kinds of 'patterns'. Next imagine yourself in one of those things looking down flying your ship with one hand while holding an alien bagel in the other. What would you see from the air? (Don't even think of including crop circles - repeat after me..."It was just Hollywood.") They may have their own Radio Shack GPS's but could there be a link between landmarks and UFO flight patterns? Try looking at _these_ patterns and see what you come up with. ;> (Excuse me if I am covering old ground.) A. Hebert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 30 Charles Hickson? From: Philip Mantle <philipmantle@hotmail.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 12:27:03 -0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 10:42:45 -0500 Subject: Charles Hickson? Does anyone happen to have a mailing address for Charles Hickson and/or Calvin Parker please. I'd like to contact them directly concerning their abduction experience almost 30 years ago now. If anyone does know how I can contact them could they e-mail me direct at: philip.mantle@eidosnet.co.uk Thanks, Philip Mantle. www.beyondpublications.com www.beyondroswell.com www.alienportraits.co.uk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 30 Re: Laughlin Conference - Myers From: Royce J. Myers III - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 06:27:20 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 10:46:29 -0500 Subject: Re: Laughlin Conference - Myers >From: Tom King <tomking2030@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 17:59:15 +0000 >Subject: Re: Laughlin Conference >>From: Philip Mantle <philip.mantle@eidosnet.co.uk> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Subject: Laughlin Conference >>Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 18:02:16 -0000 >>I just wanted to let the List members know that I'll be speaking >>at the Laughlin, Nevada Conference next week on the subject of >>Alien Abductions In The UK. This presentation will be based on >>our book 'Without Consent'. >>If any List members are attending the conference please drop by >>the UFO Magazines (UK) booth and say hello, as I'll be >>travelling over with them. >I thought about going this year since it's only a couple hours >drive from my location. I decided not to attend since it's the >same club of people every year. >Then there's Sean David Morton and Steven Greer. With all the >hard working UFO researchers out there can't they find someone >with better qualifications then those two? On top of that one of >the speakers is a convicted child molester who speaks every >year! >I'd be interested in listening to Stan Romanek a couple others >speaking. Most of the regular speakers will probably give last >years lecture and I'm not interested in that. I think its more >of a UFO circus than a Congress. >Good luck to you and hope you enjoy our weather. Sean David Morton, indeed. It really is amazing the conferneces this guy winds up getting invited to despite the amny times he's been exposed as a liar. I'm equally amazed by the success of these "conferences" each year. It really is a quandary for the credible and serious researcher/investigator to find a forum to present legitimate information. Here you have some people who have worked extremely hard, dedicating their time, energy, finances and other resources. On the other side, you have a lot of morons out there either creatively producing 'research', simply making up the absurd, ripping off everyone else under the sun and telling everyone exactly what they want to hear. Guess I could on, but I'd be rehashing much of what I've been saying for some time now and much of what a number of people on this List already know..... Regards, Royce J. Myers III UFOWATCHDOG.COM "Don't Trip On Your Open Mind"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 30 New Documentary On Rendlesham From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:24:56 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:24:56 -0500 Subject: New Documentary On Rendlesham http://www.eadt.co.uk/content/news/story.asp?datetime=30+Jan+2003+05%3A47&tbrand =EADOnline&tCategory=News&category=News&brand=EADOnline&itemid=IPED29+Jan+2003+2 1%3A47%3A41%3A820 Documentary On Suffolk UFO Sightings January 30, 2003 05:47 Documentary makers hope to shed new light on the alleged sighting of a UFO near a Suffolk air base nearly 20 years ago. The programme-makers are reinvestigating the mysterious goings- on at Rendlesham forest around December 27 and 28, 1980, for a BBC documentary which will take a fresh look at "Britain's Closest Encounter". It aims to explore various explanations for what occurred, and makers have appealed for local witnesses as they try to piece together what happened. The programme is being made by Mentorn, the company responsible for Question Time and Queen and Country, and is timed to coincide with BBC2's screening of the Spielberg sci-fi series Taken on Saturday night. It is expected to be screened on BBC3 on March 15, and BBC2 the following week, and followed by an on- line discussion. It will feature witnesses to the events, UFO experts and sceptics, conspiracy theorists and scientists, and newly analysed audiotapes recorded during the sightings. Steve Carsey, executive producer of the programme, who is also executive producer of BBC2's Robot Wars, said he felt the time was right to revisit the much-debated sightings. "In recent months, a lot of official papers and memos and MoD documents have been released," he said. "After 20 years of denial, the fact that these papers have been released justifies our desire to revisit the story and reinvestigate the story to see if anything new has come to light in the last 20 years." The last programme on the subject was made about ten years ago, he said. "We are getting some new things already, interestingly enough," he said. "We have got some new revelations and some new testimony." The programme would look at various explanations for what occurred and how the story had developed over the years, he said. "We are as interested in the story itself and as interested in the birth of a story and how it develops and how it grows," he said. "We are coming at this in a completely journalistic sense." Mr Carsey, who said he was fascinated by the subject of UFOs, said they were not taking a sensational approach. "What we can definitively say with the release of these documents is something happened," he said. "We are going to leave the viewers to come to their own conclusions." They hoped local people who had not come forward previously would feel able to contribute. Mr Carsey said that as they visited the forest this week it was interesting how much people were aware of the story of the sightings. "Everyone had an opinion," he said. The team behind Britain's Closest Encounter is looking for local witnesses in the Rendlesham area, or family members and friends of witnesses, to get the widest possible selection of views on what might have happened. It is also asking local people to come forward with photographs and video footage. If you are interested in taking part, or claim to have evidence, you can contact Riva Marker on 0207 258 6873. [UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 30 Re: Laughlin Conference - Myers From: Royce J. Myers III - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 07:33:38 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:27:35 -0500 Subject: Re: Laughlin Conference - Myers >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 00:50:05 EST >Subject: Re: Laughlin Conference >>From: Tom King <tomking2030@hotmail.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 17:59:15 +0000 >>Subject: Re: Laughlin Conference >>>From: Philip Mantle <philip.mantle@eidosnet.co.uk> >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Subject: Laughlin Conference >>>Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 18:02:16 -0000 >>>I just wanted to let the List members know that I'll be speaking >>>at the Laughlin, Nevada Conference next week on the subject of >>>Alien Abductions In The UK. This presentation will be based on >>>our book 'Without Consent'. >>>If any List members are attending the conference please drop by >>>the UFO Magazines (UK) booth and say hello, as I'll be >>>travelling over with them. >>I thought about going this year since it's only a couple hours >>drive from my location. I decided not to attend since it's the >>same club of people every year. >>Then there's Sean David Morton and Steven Greer. With all the >>hard working UFO researchers out there can't they find someone >>with better qualifications then those two? On top of that one of >>the speakers is a convicted child molester who speaks every >>year! >Seems my memory is failing. Which speaker is the convicted >child molester who speaks every year? Robert, Don't know if he speaks every year, but that would be hoax promoter Wendell Stevens. I believe that Steven claimed it to be a set up to discredit him...he does well enough on his own. Regards, Royce J. Myers III UFOWATCHDOG.COM "Don't Trip On Your Open Mind"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 30 Re: Necessary Speculation - White From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 10:39:46 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:29:16 -0500 Subject: Re: Necessary Speculation - White >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 02:35:40 -0500 >Subject: Necessary Speculation <snip> >I've just been spending some time trying to make sense of it >all. It's an exercise that helps me to maintain my equilibrium >and sanity in the face of what I _know_ is happening to me and >mine. And to many others as well. I honestly don't think that we >need to 'fear' the possibilities. I do think it's necessary that >we are at least (internally) prepared to face any eventuality. >It's better than getting caught with your psychological nickers >down around your ankles. >Just speculating. >Anyone? I don't know how reliable serious researchers consider Whitley Strieber, but he has been talking for some years about experiences inside an alien craft where he was shown images of alien-earthling hybrids and asked if he "could tell the difference". The ultimate purpose of the alien presence, according to his view, seems to be the eventual living together, openly, on planet Earth. Do any serious researchers who have an interest in abductions consider that a possibility? Eleanor White
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 30 Review Of Case MJ-12 Available From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 11:55:46 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:31:17 -0500 Subject: Review Of Case MJ-12 Available As recently promised, I have finally finished my detailed Review of Kevin Randle's new book 'Case MJ-12'. The text is 16 pages (9000 words) long and there are 11 pages of documents. While not exhaustive, it is fairly comprehensive in dealing with errors of omission and commission. I am making it available for $3. from UFORI, POB 958, Houlton, ME 04730-0958 to cover postage and printing. Since my lecture at the AZTEC, NM, UFO Conference March 21-23, will be "Critiquing the Operation Majestic 12 Critics", it was a very useful exercise. It should also come in handy in preparation for the new Redstar Films Documentary "Do you Believe in Majic?" Undoubtedly critics will consider it grist for their mills as well. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 30 Re: More On Wrong Roswell Dig Site - Randle From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 11:00:48 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:38:11 -0500 Subject: Re: More On Wrong Roswell Dig Site - Randle >From: Brad Sparks >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 20:38:42 -0500 >Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs <snip> >Unfortunately I think these statistics are invalid. Most >witnesses cannot tell the direction of travel and there is >enormous confusion of the object's _heading_ (direction of >travel) with the _direction_ the object was _seen_ in, which are >usually two different things and unrelated to each other except >in the instances where the object flies directly overhead above >the witness. >For example, if a witness sees an object low on the horizon in >the west and it moves to the right and disappears in the NW, >what was its heading? You can't say it is "NW" just because >that was the "final direction" it was seen in. It could have >traveled exactly S-N. It could have traveled almost exactly E- >W, and any range of possibilities in between. An extremely >careful and competent observer might have seen some perspective >changes giving a clue as to the direction of travel, but often >we don't know who is a careful competent observer, especially if >it's just a tabular computer listing in a database. >Meteorite tracker Lincoln LaPaz thought the Green Fireballs of >1948-9 were mostly in N-S trajectories possibly because they >were Soviet missiles. A few cases had E-W paths. But these >were _all_ flight paths that had been _triangulated_ from high >quality multiple witness data in differing locations. Single >witness single-station observations usually cannot give you a >flight heading unless the object passes right overhead. If it >passes directly overhead and it was first seen in the S and last >seen in the N then it was on a S-N trajectory. This is basic >physics and geometry. Good Morning, Brad, List, All - Far be it for me to defend Don Schmitt (especially since I am routinely accused of "ranting" about his various deceptions) but this latest takes the cake. Let's see if I understand this. Brad is suggesting that Schmitt had the wrong site because Loretta Proctor (who said she hadn't accompanied Mack Brazel down to the debris field) suggested it was some place else. Vic Golubic had Bill Brazel mark it on a map for him, but was not taken to the site at all. Both Karl Pflock and Charles Moore relied on the information provided by Loretta Proctor who had not accompanied Mack Brazel to the site. And I gave the information on a map based on what Don Schmitt had said, if I interpret the last statement correctly. Now, on the other side Bill Brazel took Don Schmitt and me to the site in his pick up truck and pointed it out to us. I have believed, based on this eyewitness testimony on site, that Don placed the western edge of the debris field two or three hundred feet too far to the west, but he is in the right location. During the 1989 CUFOS archaeological dig, we measured a line down through the center of what Brazel had shown us that was about three quarters of a mile long. Regularly spaced along this line were little flags (like those used by the utilities to mark gas lines and electrical cables). This is important because, at the far end (meaning the eastern end) we placed the last flag. When we finished the work there, we collected all those flags, missing the very last, leaving it in place. Bud Payne, a New Mexican judge who said he had been chased from the debris field by military police took us out to the site. When he stopped his truck, we were about three quarters of a mile from the stone cairn that marked the western end of the debris field, but inside that last little flag. In other words, another eye witness had just taken us to that very same three quarter mile stretch of New Mexican desert. Tom Tyree, who worked with Mack Brazel and who said that while he and Brazel were riding the range, saw a bit of metallic debris floating on water in a sink hole took us out to show us where that had been and we were on the same short stretch of New Mexican desert. This would be the third eye witness who had taken us out to the same stretch of New Mexican desert. So, we have three eye witnesses who took us out, into the desert and showed us precisely where they had been. On the other side, we have Loretta Proctor, a very nice lady, who did not accompany Mack Brazel to the scene, but provided a general location. This might have been based on what her son told her and eventually showed her, but long after the event, and after she had provided the location based on what she knew. That site, as near as I can tell is about a mile to two miles from the debris shown to me by Bill Brazel. And while I believe that Bill Brazel did his best to orient the site on the map for Vic, the real point is that he oriented the site on a map while he physically took us to the location. Which is the better method of determining exactly where it is? Finding it on a map or actually going there with the witness? I have been questioned repeatedly about the precise location of the debris field and have been reluctant to supply the exact coordinates. Why? Because it is on private property with no roads that lead to it. While most of our colleagues are good, honest people, there are those who will happily trespass, toss out garbage, and destroy the environment without much thought. Because of that, I have been careful about providing exact locations, which is not to say that I don't know the exact location, have been taken there not once, not twice, but three times by three separate eye witnesses. The point is that while Brad has collected precise information, he has collected it from those who have not been taken to the spot by those involved. And, while I believe that Schmitt places one edge too far to the west, he might claim that I place one edge too far to the east, but we have the right location... and who is to say that Jess Marcel's claim that the field was three quarters of a mile long is precise. Maybe it was only half a mile, or maybe it was just over a mile, which, of course, puts both ends of the debris field as marked in the right location. KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 30 Re: Corso - Peterborough From: Kelly Peterborough <kellymcg@attcanada.ca> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 11:19:45 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:40:07 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Peterborough >From: Colin Bennett <colin@bennettc25.fsnet.co.uk> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 23:52:46 -0000 >Subject: Re: Corso <snip> >Question - Where's Corso? Who is Corso? Kelly Ahem.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 30 Re: Laughlin Conference - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:34:43 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:45:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Laughlin Conference - Hall >From: Royce J. Myers III - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 06:27:20 -0800 (PST) >Subject: Re: Laughlin Conference <snip> >Sean David Morton, indeed. It really is amazing the conferneces >this guy winds up getting invited to despite the amny times he's >been exposed as a liar. I'm equally amazed by the success of >these "conferences" each year. It really is a quandary for the >credible and serious researcher/investigator to find a forum to >present legitimate information. >Here you have some people who have worked extremely hard, >dedicating their time, energy, finances and other resources. On >the other side, you have a lot of morons out there either >creatively producing 'research', simply making up the absurd, >ripping off everyone else under the sun and telling everyone >exactly what they want to hear. >Guess I could on, but I'd be rehashing much of what I've been >saying for some time now and much of what a number of people on >this List already know..... Royce and List, Something that galls me about these circus conferences full of demagogues and frauds is that all too many "name" ufologists on the side of the good guys insist on participating, thereby giving aid and comfort to the enemy. I am talking about some people whom I consider to be friends and colleagues who ought to know better. Apparently they consider themselves to be Teflon-coated, but they only tar themselves by participating and further the news media misperceptions that there is no difference between allegedly scientific researchers and the kooks and crazies, and/or opportunists. They ought to boycott and help to isolate and marginalize these scumbags. - Dick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 30 Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Bourdais From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:58:03 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 21:12:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Bourdais >From: Manuel Borraz <maboay@teleline.es> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 23:24:22 +0100 >Subject: Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? >I thought that it would be interesting to know what Eric Maillot >had to say. Some days ago, he wrote the following answer (I >thank John Harney for the corrections in the final English >version). >Manuel >---------------------------------------------------------------- >>From: Remy Le Chevalier <remy.lechevalier@cp.finances.gouv.fr> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 10:13:43 +0100 >>Subject: Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? >I read English but don't have complete mastery of it and I am >not willing to enter a long debate on the Trans case, which I >find of no more real interest than any other banal close >encounter - French or not - with only one witness. But I hate to >see the enormous collective work done on this case (it has taken >more than ten years) dismissed in a few lines, on the basis of >such ill-informed statements as those presented by Mr. Le >Chevalier: >>The 'Cercle Zetetique' is the most extreme French 'skeptics' >>organization. It doesn't mean they are necessarily wrong, but it >>is clear that whatever they say derives from their a-priori that >>1) science has discovered everything that matters ; >>2) there's no science done outside university thinking. >Remy Le Chevalier, who I don't know personally nor even by name >among French ufologists, talks about "a priori". I will >demonstrate here, in the "extreme French skeptics'" way, that >his own words show a great ufological ignorance and a good deal >of _his_ personal "a priori " (due to his UFO beliefs?): >1. the report on Trans en Provence is not authored by "extreme >French skeptics" from the Cercle Zetetique (of which Eric >Maillot is indeed a member) but by SERPAN, a ufological >association whose president was Michel Figuet. No one could >pretend that my friend Michel Figuet, author of a big dossier >about close encounters in France, was an out-and-out rationalist >since he died convinced of having seen a UFO (a case often cited >by J. Vallee!). It was this same Michel Figuet who encouraged >everyone to study in depth the case of Trans which seemed very >doubtful to him. To all, Since Trans en Provence is again on trial by French skeptics, I just wish to remind everyone of a few references, for those who may still want to dig into it. You can get the study of GEPAN, by writing to CNES in France: CNES/SEPRA 18 Avenue Edouard Belin, 31055, Toulouse. I also suggest that you send an email to Jean-Jacques Velasco at <Jean-Jacques.Velasco@cnes.fr> The name of the study is: Note Technique No 16 Enquete 81/01 "Analyse d'une trace" Two articles in English have been published in the United States: First an article by JJ Velasco, in Journal of Scientific Exploration Vol 4, No 1, pp 27-48, 1990 Editorial Ofice: P.O. Box 5848, Stanford, CA 94309-5848 In addition to that, a research note by Prof. Michel Bounias has been published in Journal of UFO Studies New Series Vol 5, 1994 Editorial Office: CUFOS, 2437 W. Peterson Ave., Chicago, IL 60659 There ave been many other serious publications, in many languages, one of them being the book edited by Prof. Peter Sturrock, "The UFO Enigma", 1999, Warner Books which reproduces two articles: the one of Velasco in the JSE, and an article by J Vallee. First, I just wish to strees a couple of things here: The authors of the study were careful not to conclude that they had an irrefutable proof of a ufo landing, notably because the sample gathering was not perfect. So that angle of attack is not very revolutionary. Now, skeptics have quoted remarks of Mr Niccolai which suggest that he may have been a hoaxer. Well, here is another quote, this one from an article in the French magazine Phenomena by Perry Petrakis, who is not known to be a blind believer in UFOs. In issue No 41 (1999) he gives an account of an inquiry made by two Italians Matteo Leone and Paolo Fiorino, who visited Niccolai in 1998, and spoke with him in Italian (they are members of CISU, which is not known either for being a group of over-enthisiastic believers). They said that he was a very ironic man, and that he was scornful of people who visited him. According to their report, Niccolai was especially annoyed by "those ufologists who, in their efforts to reach certitudes and final answers, ended transforming innocent jokes into disturbing signs of bad faith". Gildas Bourdais
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 30 Re: Laughlin Conference - Mantle From: Philip Mantle <philip.mantle@eidosnet.co.uk> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 18:51:53 -0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 21:16:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Laughlin Conference - Mantle >From: Tom King <tomking2030@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 17:59:15 +0000 >Subject: Re: Laughlin Conference <snip> >I thought about going this year since it's only a couple hours >drive from my location. I decided not to attend since it's the >same club of people every year. >Then there's Sean David Morton and Steven Greer. With all the >hard working UFO researchers out there can't they find someone >with better qualifications then those two? On top of that one of >the speakers is a convicted child molester who speaks every >year! >I'd be interested in listening to Stan Romanek a couple others >speaking. Most of the regular speakers will probably give last >years lecture and I'm not interested in that. I think its more >of a UFO circus than a Congress. >Good luck to you and hope you enjoy our weather. Hi Tom, It's below freezing here at the moment so the Nevada sunshine will be a welcome relief I can assure you. I can't comment on the organisers choice of speakers. All I can say is that I've never been here before so I doubt if anyone in the audience will have head my presentation before. I'd like to think that my take an abduction accounts in the UK will be of interest to those in attendance and hopefully will be a little different from what they have heard before. All the best, Philip Mantle. www.beyondpublications.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 30 EW: SETI On SETA From: Kurt Jonach - The Electric Warrior Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 11:41:54 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 21:18:50 -0500 Subject: EW: SETI On SETA An interesting article on how to distinguish a bona fide ET signal touches on Cydonia. -------------------------------------------------- SETI on SETA 30-Jan-03 How to Sort Signs of Artifical Life from the Real Thing http://www.space.com/searchforlife/seti_shostak_artificial_030130.html SETH SHOSTACK (Space.com/SETI) - How do we define 'artificial'? This problem is well known in the context of SETA, the Search for Extraterrestrial Artifacts..... For decades, the Viking Orbiter photo of the 'Face on Mars' lathered up a lot of folk who felt that the appearance of this feature as seen by the Orbiter's camera met the criteria of artificiality. Surprisingly, despite recent high-resolution photos of the 'Face' that strongly challenge this conclusion, the debate continues. -------------------------------------------------- THE ELECTRIC WARRRIOR January 30, 2003 Silicon Valley, CA
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 30 High Strangeness Case In Texas? From: Michael Harman <rocketman5047@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 12:23:32 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 21:21:03 -0500 Subject: High Strangeness Case In Texas? I am conducting research and looking for reports that are similar to this High Strangeness sighting I had in April of 2000. Has anyone else seen anything remotely similar to this? Any comments on what it was. Remember I could clearly see the clouds behind the bright perfectly round green object which had no wings or other parts on it, except for the bright red much smaller object swinging back and forth in a wide sweep like it was tethered to the object. Read my report as it was typed out back in 2000. ----- Arlington Texas April 6, 2000 9:35PM Central Standard Time. I had gone outside to observe the stars for a while before going to bed, I was standing facing south and looking at the Orion Nebula, when something caught my eye, coming over the house. Looking almost directly straight up and just slightly south, I observed two bright green circular shaped lights, or objects coming fast over our house, one behind the other. The objects were green in color, the same color as the green of a traffic light and about the same brightness, or possibly slightly brighter. The color of the green was very rich, intense green, almost a florescent green, like a green highlighter. The size was about the same size or slightly larger than Venus looks in the night sky, or about the same size that a small car would look at that altitude. Which would be just under the clouds. When viewed through binoculars the object appeared larger and you could clearly see the round shape of both objects. The objects were traveling at a very high and constant rate of speed except for just prior to it dropping below the tree line when it seemed to gain speed rapidly. The speed was what looked to be about four times the speed of aircraft passing over the same area during most of its trek. Aircraft often fly over this area, as it is on the final approaches to the DFW Airport. The object took about 12 seconds to go from almost straight up and about 10 degrees south to completely out of sight over some trees down the street looking north. As the objects traveled across the sky, they did not leave streaks, tails, sparks and there was no sign of flaring, the way a Meteorite does. The size, shape and color of these objects remained constant throughout its trek across the sky. When I spotted the first green light I noticed that there was another object just like the first one and of the same color and brightness, this second object was also traveling in the same direction and at the same speed. This object was just to the right of the first object, and slightly behind it. I remember thinking, "is this a low-flying aircraft?" "It sure is moving fast for an aircraft", however there were no normal aircraft lights or strobes visible on either object. I grabbed my binoculars to get a better look at the objects, as I viewed the leading object through the binoculars; I noticed that I could see the clouds behind the object and that there was no sign of a body or wings or any structure connected to the objects. I could clearly see the clouds behind and around both objects. The clouds were also illuminated by the city lights, which made the clouds seem to glow a dim whitish color. I could clearly see the clouds contrasted against the objects as they moved under them. The clouds were patchy and scattered, and spread out fairly evenly across the sky except for further north, where they were denser. You could also see many stars between the clouds. These objects did not look anything like stars, since they were moving at a high rate of speed. They were also moving under the cloud cover therefore could not have been stars or satellites. There was one aspect to this sighting that I thought was a bit strange, the objects seemed to be gaining speed rapidly, just prior to dropping down and disappearing behind the trees, which were about a quarter of a mile away. Early in my observation, when I first spotted the leading object looking through my binoculars, I noticed an orange much smaller light or object that seemed to be dancing very rapidly back and forth going past the lead green object in either direction, from side to side, not a tight zigzag but a much more exaggerated movement, and quite rapid, more so than what would be expected from eye movement or movement of the binoculars. I could see the lead green object at the same time as the orange smaller object and could tell that it was moving past the green one in a rapid movement. I was also able to pan the green object fairly easily allowing me to view the orange object as it danced around or back and forth. The orange object otherwise kept pace with the leading green object as it traversed the sky. This whole episode caught me totally by surprise, I had gone outside to do some stargazing, and had not planned on looking for UFOs. This incident has left me totally spooked and quite excited, definitely High Strangeness. This is the first time I have ever seen anything quite like this; looked like something right out of the movies. What I have described above was not the planet Venus or Jupiter, or a star. I was able to see both planets during this sighting. It also was not an aircraft, balloon or a helicopter as there was no sound at all, emanating from this object., and it moved much too fast and smoothly. --------/ \----- --------| |----- --------| |----- --------/ \----- Mike Harman http://ufopi.freehomepage.com/indexmain.html 817-649-0537
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 30 Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 12:26:05 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 21:23:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Hatch >From: Brad Sparks >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 20:38:42 -0500 >Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs >>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 00:08:29 -0800 >>Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs <snip> >Unfortunately I think these statistics are invalid. Most >witnesses cannot tell the direction of travel and there is >enormous confusion of the object's _heading_ (direction of >travel) with the _direction_ the object was _seen_ in, which are >usually two different things and unrelated to each other except >in the instances where the object flies directly overhead above >the witness. >For example, if a witness sees an object low on the horizon in >the west and it moves to the right and disappears in the NW, >what was its heading? You can't say it is "NW" just because >that was the "final direction" it was seen in. It could have >traveled exactly S-N. It could have traveled almost exactly E- >W, and any range of possibilities in between. An extremely >careful and competent observer might have seen some perspective >changes giving a clue as to the direction of travel, but often >we don't know who is a careful competent observer, especially if >it's just a tabular computer listing in a database. >Meteorite tracker Lincoln LaPaz thought the Green Fireballs of >1948-9 were mostly in N-S trajectories possibly because they >were Soviet missiles. A few cases had E-W paths. But these >were _all_ flight paths that had been _triangulated_ from high >quality multiple witness data in differing locations. Single >witness single-station observations usually cannot give you a >flight heading unless the object passes right overhead. If it >passes directly overhead and it was first seen in the S and last >seen in the N then it was on a S-N trajectory. This is basic >physics and geometry. Hello Brad: Your concerns were well noted here long long ago. Its true many/most people have a dim understanding of the cardinal points. That's why I have an extensive map collection (maybe $300 worth for France alone) to see which actual direction the UFO went, when somebody says it went away "toward (some landmark)". If somebody says a UFO appeared in the NW and proceeded to the SW, I count that as due South. I have been as fussy (or more so) as anyone I know of in that regard. I long understood and (hopefully) accounted for the obvious difference between heading and direction of travel. Best wishes - Larry
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 30 Re: Religion's Final Frontier - Mott From: Wm. Michael Mott <mottimorph@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 15:01:22 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 21:28:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Religion's Final Frontier - Mott >From: Kelly Peterborough <kellymcg@attcanada.ca> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 20:23:12 -0500 >Subject: Re: Religion's Final Frontier >>Most believers in extraterrestrial life do not start new >>religions as King did, but rather, adapt or reinterpret their >>own long-standing religious beliefs. >I'd like to hear Mike Mott's views on this - Mike, you believe that most >UFO activity is terrestrial in origin, right? If so, then did you adapt >or re-interpret your long-standing religious beliefs? Kelly, As you know, one of the primary propositions in my book and related research is that religions, myths, legends, and folk traditions are all simplified records of greater truths or realities. All of these, from every tradition, holds similar clues, whether examining Hindu vimana, or the "flying scroll" of Zechariah and the "chariot" of Ezekiel - or the "flying carpets" of Islamic folk tradition and the airships of "Magonia." The examples and similarities - of craft, occupants, and their activities - find parallel in nearly every culture's collective belief system, usually classified, in modern times, as "folklore." - Mike
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 30 Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Mott From: Wm. Michael Mott <mottimorph@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 15:05:00 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 21:30:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Mott >From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 02:44:36 -0600 >Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs >Gentlemen, >Excuse me for jumping in but categorizing UFOs according to the >directions they fly is like categorizing flies according to the >poop they prefer (IMHO). >Seems to me that if there is some type of intelligence flying >those things, they would more likely use a combination of >instruments as well as nap of the earth navigation to find their >way rather than following mere north-west-east-south patterns. >Designating N-W-E-S patterns for UFOs is one dimensional. To >study the flight patterns of UFOs we must also examine the >overall, 3-D environment that exists above, below and around an >object in flight. >Ever notice how low flying UFOs are often sighted traveling >parallel, criss-crossing, zigzag or flying directly over a >highway, road, river or high power lines? Do they really have an >obsession with these landmarks or could they be using them for >navigation? Take a look at navigation maps for pilots and you >will see all kinds of 'patterns'. Next imagine yourself in one >of those things looking down flying your ship with one hand >while holding an alien bagel in the other. What would you see >from the air? (Don't even think of including crop circles - >repeat after me..."It was just Hollywood.") >They may have their own Radio Shack GPS's but could there be a >link between landmarks and UFO flight patterns? Try looking at >_these_ patterns and see what you come up with. ;> >(Excuse me if I am covering old ground.) Amy, You are right to some extent, of course. My main theory here is that there may be an planetary grid of electromagnetic energy, of which ley lines and such are just a subset, which facilitates travel for them, when close to the planet's surface. Combine this with the extremely hostile conditions of the polar regions and other areas of the planet as well, and it may answer many questions about who they really are, as well as indicate that they have been here all along. When it comes to claims of being from Zeta Reticuli, we should remember that disinformation is a powerful tool. We ordinary human beings utilize it all the time. --Mike
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 31 Re: Necessary Speculation - Mott From: Wm. Michael Mott <mottimorph@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 15:07:43 -0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 02:44:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Necessary Speculation - Mott >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 02:35:40 -0500 >Subject: Necessary Speculation >We are always endlessly debating whether UFOs represent a nuts >and bolts reality or something else. As a result, it is anathema >to ever speculate about what may be the reason or purpose of >these craft/beings. Not without running the risk of having your >head chopped off. <snip> John, This was a great post. My thoughts on this issue, in a nutshell, are in this article: http://home.earthlink.net/~mottimorph/Earth.html More data which supports this (I believe overwhelmingly), can be found in my book. --Mike
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 31 Re: Review Of Case MJ-12 Available - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 22:11:32 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 02:45:44 -0500 Subject: Re: Review Of Case MJ-12 Available - Hall >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 11:55:46 -0400 >Subject: Review Of Case MJ-12 Available >As recently promised, I have finally finished my detailed Review >of Kevin Randle's new book 'Case MJ-12'. The text is 16 pages >(9000 words) long and there are 11 pages of documents. While not >exhaustive, it is fairly comprehensive in dealing with errors of >omission and commission. >I am making it available for $3. from UFORI, POB 958, Houlton, >ME 04730-0958 to cover postage and printing. Since my lecture at >the AZTEC, NM, UFO Conference March 21-23, will be "Critiquing >the Operation Majestic 12 Critics", it was a very useful >exercise. It should also come in handy in preparation for the >new Redstar Films Documentary "Do you Believe in Majic?" >Undoubtedly critics will consider it grist for their mills as >well. >Stan Friedman Stan, I would love to read your review, but I object on principle to paying for a book review. Why do you charge for it? Why not submit it to one of the UFO journals? - Dick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 31 Re: New Documentary On Rendlesham - Pope From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 22:35:15 -0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 02:48:25 -0500 Subject: Re: New Documentary On Rendlesham - Pope ----- Original Message ----- From: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> To: <- UFO UpDates Subscribers 07 - :> Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 9:25 PM Subject: UFO UpDate: New Documentary On Rendlesham >Source: East Anglian Daily Times - Essex & Suffolk UK >http://www.eadt.co.uk/content/news/story.asp?datetime=30+Jan+2003+05%3A47&tbra nd=EADOnline&tCategory=News&category=News&brand=EADOnline&itemid=IPED29+Jan+2003 +21%3A47%3A41%3A820 >Documentary On Suffolk UFO Sightings >January 30, 2003 05:47 >Documentary makers hope to shed new light on the alleged >sighting of a UFO near a Suffolk air base nearly 20 years ago. >The programme-makers are reinvestigating the mysterious goings- >on at Rendlesham forest around December 27 and 28, 1980, for a >BBC documentary which will take a fresh look at "Britain's >Closest Encounter". <snip> Dear All, Georgina Bruni is consultant to this documentary, and is working hard with the production company to ensure that the programme features only USAF personnel directly connected with the incident, people who have genuinely researched the case (not just written about it) and scientists (astronomers, psychologists or psychiatrists) who can make a meaningful contribution to the analysis of what took place. There will be a balance between believers and sceptics, which is good for the subject. The programme will not revolve around ufologists, but USAF, MOD, and the work of Georgina Bruni and former Chief of the Defence Staff Lord Hill-Norton to secure the release of MOD documents on this case. Unfortunately, as often happens in situations like this, the production company is being bombarded by calls from people trying to write themselves into the story. Several "enterprising members of the public" are attempting to get in on the act, but people are now getting wise to the tactics of "The Bandwagon Boys", and treating with suspicion anything that looks as if it's aimed at self-promotion or book-plugging. Best wishes, Nick Pope
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 31 Re: Necessary Speculation - Sandow From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 17:48:27 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 02:49:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Necessary Speculation - Sandow >From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 10:39:46 -0500 >Subject: Re: Necessary Speculation >I don't know how reliable serious researchers consider Whitley >Strieber, but he has been talking for some years about >experiences inside an alien craft where he was shown images of >alien-earthling hybrids and asked if he "could tell the >difference". The ultimate purpose of the alien presence, >according to his view, seems to be the eventual living together, >openly, on planet Earth. >Do any serious researchers who have an interest in abductions >consider that a possibility? That's exactly David Jacobs's idea, set forth in his book "The Threat". He thinks it'll all happen under the aliens' control, so we'll be living under their domination. Different from Strieber, but the same general ballpark. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 31 Re: Corso - Bennett From: Colin Bennett <colin@bennettc25.fsnet.co.uk> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 22:52:19 -0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 02:52:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Bennett >From: Kelly Peterborough kellymcg@attcanada.ca >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 11:19:45 -0500 >Subject: Re: Corso <snip> >>Question - Where's Corso? >Who is Corso? Darling Kelly, Please don't mention that name Corso please, or all the old queens and ballerinas and pantomime dames and steam-footplate scientists and 19th century Stalinist mechanicals and Maoist village interrogators will yet once again prance and mince out from the holes and shake their tuttus on the river banks of time and Ufology. Say the majic name Corso and experts will flee, gurus disappear, hysterical women will refuse to open my post, cabals will be formed to bully me from the List, I will be the victim of a no- comment campaign organised by the professional ordinaries, whispering campaign from doomed rationalists, I will be cursed by losers, nobodies, the fragile of mind and body, the damned, the perverted and the inspire and the suicidal. I will be sworn at by old men looking for docoment boxes on the bottom of a dead parrot's cage. So please darling, it you want to know who Corso is, look back at my last fat 700 line post from a few days ago called Fourth Day Like For Long Months months of Absence, and several posts back. Don't for god's sake believe those who wish to replace dreams and poetry and mysticism and imagination with document boxes, security categories, and filing cabinets and archives. They will be the death of Ufology, not the sceptics, and their manuals are enough to stop charging rhinos in their tracks and cause hippos to die of grief. Let's keep in touch Kelly, beacause this lot are a harder to modernise than I ever though. I am trying to take them by the neck and drag them all kicking and struggling into postmodernism and the New Ufology. Colin (Bad Man) Bennett PS Briefly Corso was a man who happend to fire a round into Headquarters, that's who Corso was.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 31 Request For Explanation Of BLM Censorship From: Larry W. Bryant <evelarr@msn.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 17:59:41 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 02:59:00 -0500 Subject: Request For Explanation Of BLM Censorship To: <senator_allen@allen.senate.gov> <president@whitehouse.gov> TO: Hon. George Allen United States Senate Central Virginia Office 507 East Franklin Street Richmond, VA 23219 FROM: Larry W. Bryant 3518 Martha Custis Drive Alexandria, VA 22302 DATE: January 30, 2003 In a letter dated Nov. 27, 2002, to an attorney in New Mexico who had sought access to certain records pertaining to the recent archeological excavation of the reputed debris field of a UFO crash-landing near Roswell, N.M., in July 1947, the university counsel of the University of New Mexico states: "The exact location of the research, which is on Bureau of Land Management land, has been redacted pursuant to BLM direction." Nowhere in the letter does the counsel explain the reason for this form of censorship by (unnamed) BLM officials. What's more, the UNM-released "Archeological Testing and Remote Sensing Study Plan for Foster Ranch Impact Site" (as submitted last year for BLM review-approval) contains this BLM-directed censorship: "The area to be tested -- commonly referred to as the 'skip site' -- lies on BLM and private lands on the Foster Ranch in Lincoln County, N.M. The exact location of the target area has yet to be determined, but it lies somewhere within the following sections of Township 4 South, Range 16 East (see attached map for approximate location): "BLM lands: Sec.19 ([blacked out]); Sec. 20 ([blacked out]); Sec. 29 ([blacked out]); and, possibly, Sec. 30 (NE 1/4). "Private (?) lands: Sec. 29 ([blacked out])." This official act of censoring public information raises a number of questions about its origin, purpose, propriety, and justification -- not the least of which follow: (1) What official ordered it, and why? (2) What role, if any, have any Defense Department personnel played in it? (3) Does the censored data have a security classification; and, if so, what is it? (4) How long do BLM officials intend to sustain the censorship, and why? (5) To what official should an appeal of their action be addressed? (6) What legal grounds, if any, exist for this act of censorship? (7) How is it that UNM officials are entitled to know the censored information while the general public is denied it? (8) What extant federal written records reveal the origin, purpose, and scope of the BLM censorship decision, and who has custody of them? As you review this matter and its ramifications for the public's right-to-know, I ask that, on my behalf, you contact BLM headquarters in Washington with the request that they explain their rationale for imposing this egregious censorship of such an historic public issue as the Roswell Incident. In your contact, you might wish to point out that their prolonged lack of an acceptable rationale will do little except fuel the aura of mystery and conspiracy surrounding the Incident and its aftermath -- an unintended consequence, perhaps? Please note, Senator, that I'm snail-mailing to you a signed printout of this e-formatted letter. LARRY W. BRYANT Director, Washington, D.C., Office of Citizens Against UFO Secrecy _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ "Information is PROPERTY, and public information is PUBLIC property." -- L.W.B. [LWB Note: My own FOIA request sent to BLM Hq on Nov. 7, 2002, produced a modicum of results -- one of which was a copy of the multipage UNM study plan. In the paragraph describing the "area to be tested," the line of type listing the geographic section numbers happens to display white-space blanks corresponding to the blacked-out spaces on the UNM-released copy. This means that, unbeknownst to me until now, some BLMite has deleted key data from their response -- even though no mention of that deletion appears in the BLM transmittal letter to me of Dec. 11. Such bad-faith response should be enough to raise doubts in anyone's mind about the competence, integrity, and credibility of those who're tending the FOIA store at BLM. And it also will serve to taint any BLM Roswell-related pronouncement and/or action that might materialize in the future. The public deserves more than this, and the BLM censors/evaders should be reminded of that fact.]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 31 Re: Corso - Oplatka From: Laurel Oplatka <calabash2003@webtv.net> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:02:17 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 03:08:46 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Oplatka Hello All, Here's hoping Wendy Connors is, in truth, a closet Colin reader. What are we to make of our lone-UFO satirist? Is he a Dennis Miller Quaazga hybrid? My take on Colin's Latest: A splendorous, unparalleled piece of wildly funny, ingenious word-art. Hey, David Lynche's 'Eraserhead' and H.P. Lovecrafts's 'The Colour out of Space' were once ignored... Bennett's Ufological art is way, way cool!! ONCE UPON A TIME, (this) my primordial quasi-ditty was printed in "Saucer Smear": "O'er the loss of Smear I'd shed a tear, The Tidbits of Trash The trashing of Lear Yea, in no-man's land where Moseley reigns, Where Willy wails and Whitley feigns We search in vain for Condor's candor Marching through a miasma of slander Denounced as a crock For Klass to Mock, I'm flipping your pages, Having a ball, In hopes of avoiding The fate of Forrestal. Yesterday I read Fourth Day Like Four Months of Absence. The energizing creations of Mr. Bennett have catapulted us from nincompoopism to (Post) post-avant-garde ism. Best Regards, Laurel
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 31 Re: Necessary Speculation - Kaeser From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 21:07:46 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 10:59:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Necessary Speculation - Kaeser >From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 10:39:46 -0500 >Subject: Re: Necessary Speculation <snip> >I don't know how reliable serious researchers consider Whitley >Strieber, but he has been talking for some years about >experiences inside an alien craft where he was shown images of >alien-earthling hybrids and asked if he "could tell the >difference". The ultimate purpose of the alien presence, >according to his view, seems to be the eventual living together, >openly, on planet Earth. >Do any serious researchers who have an interest in abductions >consider that a possibility? Whitley Strieber is certainly not alone in unusual claims with regard to the purpose of alien abductions. David Jacobs has expressed the belief that the purpose of the alien presence is to hybridize all of mankind, making us all part alien (an over simplification, but covered in "The Threat"). I guess it comes down to a question of how critical one is going to be with regard to the claims and beliefs expressed by abductees. One of the more interesting facets of this phenomenon is that there are many parallels that cannot easily be explained. If a researcher continues to hear tales of hybridization then the option is to reject the concept out of hand, or listen with an open mind and try to identify the root cause. Unfortunately, IMO, the concept of alien abductions quickly becomes an all or nothing proposition for the researcher. It becomes very difficult to accept part of someone's experience and reject another part. IMO, the alien abduction phenomenon is (for the most part) based on anecdotal evidence, and a researcher can either accept it or reject it. While not inexpensive, a good volume of information dealing with the alien abduction phenomenon can be found at the MIT Press bookstore: http://mitpress.mit.edu/bookstore/authors/aliendis.html Held a decade ago, the MIT conference was a monumental effort designed to bring professionals and researchers together to share information and experiences. Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 31 Re: More On Wrong Roswell Dig Site - Sparks From: Brad Sparks Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 21:36:17 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:02:26 -0500 Subject: Re: More On Wrong Roswell Dig Site - Sparks >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> >Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 11:00:48 EST >Fwd Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:38:11 -0500 >Subject: Re: More On Wrong Roswell Dig Site - Randle >>From: Brad Sparks >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 20:38:42 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs <snip> Hi Kevin, List, You quoted the wrong posting of mine. It's not the one on "Flight-Paths." The correct postings are at: http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2003/jan/m30-005.shtml http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2003/jan/m27-010.shtml >Good Morning, Brad, List, All - >Far be it for me to defend Don Schmitt (especially since I am >routinely accused of "ranting" about his various deceptions) but >this latest takes the cake. >Let's see if I understand this. Brad is suggesting that Schmitt >had the wrong site because Loretta Proctor (who said she hadn't >accompanied Mack Brazel down to the debris field) suggested it >was some place else. No that is not correct -- I listed Don Schmitt's site coordinates, in fact half my list comes from Schmitt in some way including your own. As I understand it from Karl Pflock, others besides Loretta Proctor identified the BLM survey marker as within the Debris Field. By the way, Mack Brazel did not take Schmitt out to the site either. <snip> >And I gave the information on a map based on what Don Schmitt >had said, if I interpret the last statement correctly. And I greatly appreciate your help. You said Schmitt took you to the site. <snip> >Bud Payne, a New Mexican judge who said he had been chased from >the debris field by military police took us out to the site. >When he stopped his truck, we were about three quarters of a >mile from the stone cairn that marked the western end of the >debris field, but inside that last little flag. In other words, >another eye witness had just taken us to that very same three >quarter mile stretch of New Mexican desert. Indeed, some of the Schmitt-derived coordinates are indeed spread across 0.8 mile from W to E, but almost exactly W to E. Is that Schmitt's flight path scenario or yours or Frank Kaufmann's? I don't think so. I understand the flight path scenario is supposedly heading SE or ESE -- contrary to the original scenarios of the object haeding NW. (The azimuth of the Schmitt coordinates turns out to be 83 degrees rather than the 125 degrees that Bill Doleman of UNM told me was Schmitt's Roswell scenario. That's between ESE and SE.) <snip> >On the other side, >we have Loretta Proctor, a very nice lady, who did not accompany >Mack Brazel to the scene, but provided a general location. Again, Mack Brazel didn't take Schmitt out to the Debris Field either. <snip> >That [Loretta Proctor] site, as near as I can >tell is about a mile to two miles from the debris shown to me by >Bill Brazel. That is incorrect. The coordinates are only about 1/4 mile away from your Schmitt Debris Field. Look it up yourself in my table (below). These are simply listed in order of latitude sothern to northern, that's why the Bill Brazel/Vic Golubic figures come first. Latitude N Longitude W [Removed by Moderator] >I have been questioned repeatedly about the precise location of >the debris field and have been reluctant to supply the exact >coordinates. Why? Because it is on private property with no >roads that lead to it. Apparently the Debris Field site(s) is on US Government land and the Bureau of Land Management has seen fit to suppress the site coordinates used by the Sci Fi Channel/University of New Mexico project. See Larry Bryant's message soon to be posted based on information that Roswell investigators have had for months if not years. <snip> >The point is that while Brad has collected precise information, >he has collected it from those who have not been taken to the >spot by those involved. Half the data come from Schmitt and you Kevin -- who were taken to the spot by "those involved" either family members of witnesses or witnesses. <snip> >but we have the right location... Well, which one? <snip> >and who is to say that Jess Marcel's claim that the field was three >quarters of a mile long is precise. Maybe it was only half a >mile, or maybe it was just over a mile, which, of course, puts >both ends of the debris field as marked in the right location. >KRandle Which claim should we believe? Mack Brazel's estimate of 600 feet for the Debris Field, published on July 9, 1947? Or Marcel's from 30+ years later? Or others'? Does Marcel's 3/4- mile figure include two sites separated by a gap? Etc. Brad Sparks
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 31 Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Sparks From: Brad Sparks Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 21:52:16 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:06:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Sparks >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 12:26:05 -0800 >Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Hatch >>From: Brad Sparks >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 20:38:42 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs <snip> >>Unfortunately I think these statistics are invalid. <snip> >Your concerns were well noted here long long ago. <snip> >If somebody says a UFO appeared in the NW and proceeded to the >SW, I count that as due South. I have been as fussy (or more so) >as anyone I know of in that regard. I long understood and >(hopefully) accounted for the obvious difference between heading >and direction of travel. Hi Larry, Not to knock your fine work over the years but you just cannot assume that. You cannot assume that if the UFO was seen in the NW and disappeared in the SW that it was on a due South heading. The UFO could have been 1 mile away at first and was lost at 10 miles away, in which case it would have been heading almost due SW. There is enough imprecision (+/- 22.5 degs at least) and witness error, as well as magnetic / true north conversion factors, so that your NW/SW could even be E-W or W-E, etc. Best regards, Brad
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 31 Re: Corso - Gates From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 00:28:38 EST Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:08:16 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Gates >From: Kelly Peterborough <kellymcg@attcanada.ca> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 11:19:45 -0500 >Subject: Re: Corso >>From: Colin Bennett <colin@bennettc25.fsnet.co.uk> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 23:52:46 -0000 >>Subject: Re: Corso ><snip> >>Question - Where's Corso? >Who is Corso? Kelly, Let me see if I get this right..... "What is Corso" is on third, "Who is Corso" is on Second, and "Where is Corso" is on first..... So is the short stop "That is Corso?" :) The movie on this players life will be titled: The Legend, the Man The sound track will feature such hits as: "In the mine with ET.." (with the Grey chorus) "Fly me in your time machine" (with Crash Landing and the Nazi's) "J Edgar and Me" (with the Black Bags) "I worked for IKE" (with the Secret Agent Chorus) Any suggestions for the title of the book? :) Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 31 Re: More On Wrong Roswell Dig Site - Gates From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 00:38:40 EST Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:11:20 -0500 Subject: Re: More On Wrong Roswell Dig Site - Gates >From: Brad Sparks >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 23:18:17 EST >Subject: More On Wrong Roswell Dig Site >I have received more discrepant coordinates for the Debris Field >and even the site where the UNM did the archaeological >excavation. My thanks to Larry Bryant for "digging" out the >email copies from the packet of UNM documents that he pressed >them to release. >For discussion see my post on Jan 27 and don't pretend you >couldn't find it or I will just re-post it all: Hi Brad, Awhile back I received the following: Coordinates for the various sites associated with the Roswell Incident: CORONA House: 33 58.26 N 105 18.53 W Debris Field: 33 56.35 N 105 18.41 W Govt. Brass Cap: T45S R16E 3 S30 S19 RAGSDALE 33 37.43 N 105 13.56 W CORN 33 57.01 N 105 18.87 W Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 31 Re: Necessary Speculation - Hebert From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 00:31:30 -0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:20:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Necessary Speculation - Hebert >From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 10:39:46 -0500 >Subject: Re: Necessary Speculation >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 02:35:40 -0500 >>Subject: Necessary Speculation <snip> >The ultimate purpose of the alien presence, >according to his view, seems to be the eventual living together, >openly, on planet Earth. >Do any serious researchers who have an interest in abductions >consider that a possibility? Hi, Eleanor: "Serious researchers"? I try not to be too serious, no fun. Research, on the other hand, is fun! As for the "ultimate purpose of the alien presence", we have much to learn. I can't think in terms of an 'ultimate purpose' to anything that humans do let alone an ultimate purpose any 'aliens' might have. For example, Bush may say we need to stop Iraq from obtaining nuclear arms but is that Bush's 'ultimate purpose'? It is difficult if not presumptuous to narrow any being's motives, human or otherwise, to any one particular purpose. Organisms are far too complex for that. As for an 'alien presence', I don't think we know what the hell that is either. People may label the phenomenon "the alien presence" but this, too, is far too complex to attach labels or even definitions at this point. What little data there is available is often so biased and suspect, there is no way to distinguish between valid information, disinformation and misinformation. We don't even know how many beings may be interacting with humans yet "they" are lumped together as the collective "alien presence". Claimed abductees have described a wide variety of close encounters with many types of beings. Why should researchers assume these beings are all working together with one 'ultimate purpose'? And why should claimed abductees believe everything they are told by beings of unknown origins who take them, against their wills, into an environment under *their* control? I'm sorry, Eleanor, but before we can assign an "ultimate purpose" to any presence we must first define what that presence really is or is not. IMHO A. Hebert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 31 Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Hebert From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 00:45:16 -0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:22:22 -0500 Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Hebert >From: Wm. Michael Mott <mottimorph@earthlink.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 15:05:00 -0600 >Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs >>From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 02:44:36 -0600 >>Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs >>Gentlemen, >>Excuse me for jumping in but categorizing UFOs according to the >>directions they fly is like categorizing flies according to the >>poop they prefer (IMHO). <snip> >Amy, >You are right to some extent, of course. My main theory here is >that there may be an planetary grid of electromagnetic energy, >of which ley lines and such are just a subset, which facilitates >travel for them, when close to the planet's surface. Hi, Michael: Can you point me to scientific studies that have established the existence of "ley lines"? >Combine this with the extremely hostile conditions of the polar >regions and other areas of the planet as well, and it may answer >many questions about who they really are, as well as indicate >that they have been here all along. Who are "they"? >When it comes to claims of being from Zeta Reticuli, we should >remember that disinformation is a powerful tool. We ordinary >human beings utilize it all the time. Yes, and may unwittingly promote it. A. Hebert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 31 Re: Abduction Question - White From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 07:25:00 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:26:16 -0500 Subject: Re: Abduction Question - White Errol I'm in touch with an abductee who hasn't seen this info. Because it was posted on Christmas Eve, and I believe it was in fact the only posting you sent out that day, would you be willing to post it again? I really think this idea has merit for abductees. Many thanks, Eleanor White >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 05:03:27 -0500 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Subject: Re: Abduction Question <snip> >Abductees have only themselves, their own inner resources and >maybe a few other individuals that they can turn to. The >situation they face is the epitome of the phrase, "Caught >between a rock and hard place." >Talk about a sad state of affairs. Hm. You know, that story about the abductee who was abducted along with his boat and recording GPS suggests another idea. Nowadays, Digital Angel sells a wearable GPS type locator gadget at this web page: http://www.digitalangel.net/consumer.asp The unit is $400 US and the monitoring charge is $30 US per month. They offer, for wandering seniours, a service called "WanderAlert" that sends the service customer an alert if the person wearing the unit leaves a preset area. How about if those people currently undergoing fairly frequent abductions were to subscribe to this service? I'm guessing the abductors would not steal the unit as that would be tangible evidence of their crime. If they personally can't afford it, the cost is low enough that presumably others with a keen interest in solving the mystery could cover it. How does that sound? Eleanor White
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 31 Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Maillot From: Erick Maillot <erick.maillot@wanadoo.fr> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 03:43:15 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:27:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Maillot >From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:58:03 +0100 >Subject: Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? >To all, >Since Trans en Provence is again on trial by French skeptics, I >just wish to remind everyone of a few references, for those who >may still want to dig into it. >You can get the study of GEPAN, by writing to CNES in France: >CNES/SEPRA 18 Avenue Edouard Belin, 31055, Toulouse. >I also suggest that you send an email to Jean-Jacques Velasco at ><Jean-Jacques.Velasco@cnes.fr> >The name of the study is: Note Technique No 16 Enquete 81/01 >"Analyse d'une trace" See also this note (in french): www.marcogee.free.fr/ovni/sepra/nt16.htm and www.ufocom.org/UfocomS/trans.html "Regards sur la Note Technique N=B0 16 du GEPAN. par Yves, biochimiste - g=E9n=E9ticien, =E9quipe "Sciences" UFOCOM" Eric Maillot
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 31 Re: Review Of Case MJ-12 Available - Friedman From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 08:40:58 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:32:38 -0500 Subject: Re: Review Of Case MJ-12 Available - Friedman >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 22:11:32 +0000 >Subject: Re: Review Of Case MJ-12 Available >>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 11:55:46 -0400 >>Subject: Review Of Case MJ-12 Available >>As recently promised, I have finally finished my detailed Review >>of Kevin Randle's new book 'Case MJ-12'. The text is 16 pages >>(9000 words) long and there are 11 pages of documents. While not >>exhaustive, it is fairly comprehensive in dealing with errors of >>omission and commission. >>I am making it available for $3. from UFORI, POB 958, Houlton, >>ME 04730-0958 to cover postage and printing. Since my lecture at >>the AZTEC, NM, UFO Conference March 21-23, will be "Critiquing >>the Operation Majestic 12 Critics", it was a very useful >>exercise. It should also come in handy in preparation for the >>new Redstar Films Documentary "Do you Believe in Majic?" >>Undoubtedly critics will consider it grist for their mills as >>well. >I would love to read your review, but I object on principle to >paying for a book review. Why do you charge for it? Why not >submit it to one of the UFO journals? Dick, In principle I agree with you. But I think it is too long for journals. It is 16 pages of text and 11 pages of documents. The list price will be $4. but I am offering the $3.00 special price to UFO UpDates listerians. Obviously people would have to pay for the journal as well and that would delay things, too. I would be happy if some journal wants to publish it. I could email the text, still long, but don't have the documents on my computer and don't have a scanner. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 31 Re: Review Of Case MJ-12 Available - Tonnies From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 06:28:57 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:34:44 -0500 Subject: Re: Review Of Case MJ-12 Available - Tonnies >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 22:11:32 +0000 >Subject: Re: Review Of Case MJ-12 Available <snip> >I would love to read your review, but I object on principle to >paying for a book review. Why do you charge for it? Why not >submit it to one of the UFO journals? Or put it on your website? ===== Mac Tonnies macbot@yahoo.com MTVI: http://www.mactonnies.com Transcelestial Ontology, Posthumanism and Theoretical Ufology Blog: http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com (updated daily)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 31 Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Mancusi From: Bruno Mancusi <swissufo@swissufo.ch> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 16:02:58 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:37:07 -0500 Subject: Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? - Mancusi >From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 16:58:03 +0100 >Subject: Re: Trans en Provence A Hoax? >To all, >Since Trans en Provence is again on trial by French skeptics, I >just wish to remind everyone of a few references, for those who >may still want to dig into it. >You can get the study of GEPAN, by writing to CNES in France: >CNES/SEPRA 18 Avenue Edouard Belin, 31055, Toulouse. >I also suggest that you send an email to Jean-Jacques Velasco at ><Jean-Jacques.Velasco@cnes.fr> >The name of the study is: Note Technique No 16 Enquete 81/01 >"Analyse d'une trace" Hi Gildas and all, All GEPAN 'Notes Techniques' and 'Notes d'Information' are on line here (by Marc Angee): http://marcogee.free.fr/ovni/sepra.html Bruno
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 31 Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Carey From: Thomas Carey <TCarey1947@aol.com> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 10:14:42 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:39:18 -0500 Subject: Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Carey >From: Jim Houran <JHouran@siumed.edu> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 14:25:53 -0600 >Subject: Re: Validating The Ramey Memo >>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 18:25:08 -0800 >>Subject: Re: Validating The Ramey Memo >>>From: Jim Houran <JHouran@siumed.edu >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 12:05:01 -0600 >>>Subject: Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Houran >There is too much emotional laden language and arguments from >Rudiak to which to respond. I also expect civil exchanges and >debates. 'Name calling' and 'label tossing' in its various >guises does not become academicians, and in fact, it undermines >the credibility of those applying the labels. >I cannot speak for Kevin Randle, but I will leave this now non- >constructive debate on this final note. It seems that Rudiak >neither understands the rationale for my arguments on bias or >the influence of preconceived notions, nor the implications of >the various statistical findings in my JSE paper with Randle. >Suffice it to say, we must agree to disagree. I strongly suggest >to Rudiak, however, that he submit his study of the Ramey Memo >to a peer-reviewed, scientific journal, as I have done. I will >continue my work on the problem in the way I feel it should be >handled, and I will disseminate the results (be they pro or >con) in said forums. Hello List: In case you missed it folks, what Jim Houran just executed is known in debating and debunking circles as the "discreet withdrawal". Congratulations, David. TCarey
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 31 Re: Necessary Speculation - White From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 10:58:14 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 14:39:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Necessary Speculation - White Hi Just wondering here what John Velez and other serious researchers into the abduction phenomenon think about the _military_ abductions, when they speculate about the purpose(s) of the abductions? I had a military abductee correspond with me at length about a year ago. She was a teen age girl living in a fairly rural area. She claimed her abductors were men in uniform (USAF), and that they sexually abused her, over and over and over. Her parents, with whom she was living at the time, just told her to shut up an go along with it. This is in fact _classic_ MKULTRA and Satanic cult ritual abuse. She reported no connection with UFOs whatsoever. It's always puzzled me why "MILABs" are often lumped in with UFO abductions in popular literature. Eleanor White
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 31 Re: More On Wrong Roswell Dig Site - Carey From: Tom Carey <TCarey1947@aol.com> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 10:58:37 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 15:05:31 -0500 Subject: Re: More On Wrong Roswell Dig Site - Carey >From: Brad Sparks >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 23:18:17 EST >Subject: More On Wrong Roswell Dig Site >I have received more discrepant coordinates for the Debris Field >and even the site where the UNM did the archaeological >excavation. My thanks to Larry Bryant for "digging" out the >email copies from the packet of UNM documents that he pressed >them to release. >For discussion see my post on Jan 27 and don't pretend you >couldn't find it or I will just re-post it all: >http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2003/jan/m27-010.shtml >Latitude N Longitude W <snip> Hello List: We are periodically asked the question, "Why can't all you Roswell investigators just work together?" The readers need look no further than the above post from Brad Sparks. Brad had e-mailed me requesting the GPS coordinates of the Foster Ranch debris field site. Thinking that he was researching something related to the subject at hand, I attempted to be of assistance and, in good faith, provided Brad with the only co-ordinates that I had. Having been to the site a half-dozen times or so, I never have paid much attention to what the GPS readings were. Like Don Schmitt, Kevin Randle and a very few others, I don't need GPS coordinates to get to the site. As Kevin has stated in another post, we are certain of the site. All Brad has done is to try to create a false sense of confusion regarding the location of the debris field where there is none to those of us who have been there. Even more damaging, he has provided points of reference for every crazy and wannabee within driving distance of the site to try to become a 'hero' or worse. We are not finished with the site, and still have plans for further research there. If the owner of the ranch in question starts to play 'host' to visitors on his property looking for the debris field site, we run the risk of having our access to it shut down. Brad Sparks has done a dis-service, not only to the on-going investigation, but to himself. In the future, I will no longer provide him with any information whatsoever regarding Roswell. TCarey
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 31 Re: Corso - Baiata From: Maurizio Baiata <mbalien@tin.it> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 17:49:30 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 16:03:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Baiata >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 00:28:38 EST >Subject: Re: Corso >>From: Kelly Peterborough <kellymcg@attcanada.ca> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 11:19:45 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Corso >>>From: Colin Bennett <colin@bennettc25.fsnet.co.uk> >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 23:52:46 -0000 >>>Subject: Re: Corso >><snip> >>>Question - Where's Corso? >>Who is Corso? >Let me see if I get this right..... "What is Corso" is on third, >"Who is Corso" is on Second, and "Where is Corso" is on >first..... So is the short stop "That is Corso?" :) >The movie on this players life will be titled: The Legend, the Man >The sound track will feature such hits as: >"In the mine with ET.." (with the Grey chorus) >"Fly me in your time machine" (with Crash Landing and the Nazi's) >"J Edgar and Me" (with the Black Bags) >"I worked for IKE" (with the Secret Agent Chorus) >Any suggestions for the title of the book? :) Very funny. I didn't get the first two titles related to Corso. Having known him very well in Italy, I don't appreciate any sarcasm - even if justified by the fact that one has never met the man in person - addressed to the late Colonel. And I take this opportunity, for the first time, to announce that soon his diary "Dawn of a New Age" will be out in Italy and, subsequently, in several other countries. I'm available to discuss it with anybody interested. Maurizio Baiata
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 31 Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Mott From: Wm. Michael Mott <mottimorph@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 09:02:39 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 16:08:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Mott >From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 00:45:16 -0600 >Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs >Can you point me to scientific studies that have established the >existence of "ley lines"? Paul Devereaux has done some extensive work in this area. http://www.acemake.com/PaulDevereux/leylines.html However, I don't buy into any mystical interpetation of such sites. While they may indicate conduits of electromagnetism in the overall field of the planet, the "mystical" experiences people claim may instead be due to the "morphogenic field" effect as described by Albert Budden: http://www.karenlundegaard.com/Questions/Psi&EH/Budden.html >Combine this with the extremely hostile conditions of the polar >regions and other areas of the planet as well, and it may answer >many questions about who they really are, as well as indicate >that they have been here all along. Who are "they"? I'm referring to those who pilot the UFOs which look like physical, manufactured aircraft of some sort (as opposed to blobs of light, for instance). In other words, a technologically advanced race or hominid species with whom we share this planet, and always have. >When it comes to claims of being from Zeta Reticuli, we should >remember that disinformation is a powerful tool. We ordinary >human beings utilize it all the time. Yes, and may unwittingly promote it. Yes, they do. What has always amazed me is that abductees, contactees, and others (even "channelers") buy into or swallow, hook, line, and sinker, anything that they're told by UFO occupants, in terms of who they are, where they come from, and what they're up to. It seems to me that if you won't buy a bridge from the first human con-artist you meet on the street, why in the world would you assume that information from a seemingly non-human source is truthful or factual? It's simply not sound, logically speaking. --Mike
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 31 Re: Corso - Goldstein From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 18:22:43 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 16:14:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Goldstein >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 00:28:38 EST >Subject: Re: Corso >>From: Kelly Peterborough <kellymcg@attcanada.ca> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 11:19:45 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Corso >>>From: Colin Bennett <colin@bennettc25.fsnet.co.uk> >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 23:52:46 -0000 >>>Subject: Re: Corso >><snip> >>>Question - Where's Corso? >>Who is Corso? >Let me see if I get this right..... "What is Corso" is on third, >"Who is Corso" is on Second, and "Where is Corso" is on >first..... So is the short stop "That is Corso?" :) >The movie on this players life will be titled: The Legend, the Man >The sound track will feature such hits as: >"In the mine with ET.." (with the Grey chorus) >"Fly me in your time machine" (with Crash Landing and the Nazi's) >"J Edgar and Me" (with the Black Bags) >"I worked for IKE" (with the Secret Agent Chorus) >Any suggestions for the title of the book? :) Hi Robert, I'm not Kelly but I have a book title: Corso - I Became a Total Fool. I'd retitle the movie as: Corso - The Legend, The Myth, The Fool. Josh
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 31 Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Friedman From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 13:25:24 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 16:37:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Friedman >From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 00:45:16 -0600 >Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs >>From: Wm. Michael Mott <mottimorph@earthlink.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 15:05:00 -0600 >>Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs >>>From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 02:44:36 -0600 >>>Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs >>>Excuse me for jumping in but categorizing UFOs according to the >>>directions they fly is like categorizing flies according to the >>>poop they prefer (IMHO). ><snip> >>You are right to some extent, of course. My main theory here is >>that there may be an planetary grid of electromagnetic energy, >>of which ley lines and such are just a subset, which facilitates >>travel for them, when close to the planet's surface. >Can you point me to scientific studies that have established the >existence of "ley lines"? >>Combine this with the extremely hostile conditions of the polar >>regions and other areas of the planet as well, and it may answer >>many questions about who they really are, as well as indicate >>that they have been here all along. >Who are "they"? >>When it comes to claims of being from Zeta Reticuli, we should >>remember that disinformation is a powerful tool. We ordinary >>human beings utilize it all the time. >Yes, and may unwittingly promote it. There as been plenty of USAF disinformation about both Roswell and Majestic 12. I hope all on this List can differentiate between the oustanding Star Map Research of Marjorie Fish as described in "The Zeta Reticuli Incident" by Terence Dickinson and the 1980 update by Dickinson as well, and the supposedly channelled messages from Zeta Reticulans. As far as I can tell none of the latter were published prior to my publication of the first article about Marjorie's work in SAGA July, 1973,with the late Bobbi Ann Slate. The Hill abduction took place in 1961. One might have expected that channeling would precede publication, if it were legitimate. The latest data, incidentally, indicate that Zeta 1 and Zeta 2 Reticuli are each about 39 light years from the sun and are about 1/8th of a light year apart besides being a billion years older than the sun. For listers and MUFON members the 2 Dickinson items are available together from UFORI, POB 958, Houlton, ME 04730-0958. for $5. including S and H.Obviously neither Betty nor Barney claimed their abductors were from Reticulum. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 31 Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Kaeser From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 12:43:07 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 16:40:48 -0500 Subject: Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Kaeser >From: Thomas Carey <TCarey1947@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 10:14:42 -0500 >Subject: Re: Validating The Ramey Memo >>From: Jim Houran <JHouran@siumed.edu> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 14:25:53 -0600 >>Subject: Re: Validating The Ramey Memo <snip> >>I cannot speak for Kevin Randle, but I will leave this now non- >>constructive debate on this final note. It seems that Rudiak >>neither understands the rationale for my arguments on bias or >>the influence of preconceived notions, nor the implications of >>the various statistical findings in my JSE paper with Randle. >>Suffice it to say, we must agree to disagree. I strongly suggest >>to Rudiak, however, that he submit his study of the Ramey Memo >>to a peer-reviewed, scientific journal, as I have done. I will >>continue my work on the problem in the way I feel it should be >>handled, and I will disseminate the results (be they pro or >>con) in said forums. >In case you missed it folks, what Jim Houran just executed >is known in debating and debunking circles as the "discreet >withdrawal". Congratulations, David. Hi Tom It should be noted that a number of us support the position taken by James Houran in hopes that we can take this debate beyond the confines of the UFO crowd. However, like many threads we see in this genre, there's a point where it just isn't worth further discussion. I'm grateful that further research is most likely to be done in this particular matter and trust that any new information of interest will be posted for all to see. Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 31 Re: Corso - Oplatka From: Laurel Oplatka <calabash2003@webtv.net> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 09:49:09 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 16:43:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Oplatka >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 00:28:38 EST >Subject: Re: Corso <snip> >Let me see if I get this right..... "What is Corso" is on third, >"Who is Corso" is on Second, and "Where is Corso" is on >first..... So is the short stop "That is Corso?" :) >The movie on this players life will be titled: The Legend, the Man >The sound track will feature such hits as: >"In the mine with ET.." (with the Grey chorus) >"Fly me in your time machine" (with Crash Landing and the Nazi's) >"J Edgar and Me" (with the Black Bags) >"I worked for IKE" (with the Secret Agent Chorus) >Any suggestions for the title of the book? :) Robert, I don't have a suitable title for Corso's next book, but I'll the first in line at 'Birnes and Noble' to get a copy. :-))
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 31 Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Houran From: Jim Houran <JHouran@siumed.edu> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:51:40 -0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 16:47:42 -0500 Subject: Re: Validating The Ramey Memo - Houran >From: Thomas Carey <TCarey1947@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 10:14:42 -0500 >Subject: Re: Validating The Ramey Memo >>From: Jim Houran <JHouran@siumed.edu> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 14:25:53 -0600 >>Subject: Re: Validating The Ramey Memo <snip> >>There is too much emotional laden language and arguments from >>Rudiak to which to respond. I also expect civil exchanges and >>debates. 'Name calling' and 'label tossing' in its various >>guises does not become academicians, and in fact, it undermines >>the credibility of those applying the labels. >>I cannot speak for Kevin Randle, but I will leave this now non- >>constructive debate on this final note. It seems that Rudiak >>neither understands the rationale for my arguments on bias or >>the influence of preconceived notions, nor the implications of >>the various statistical findings in my JSE paper with Randle. >>Suffice it to say, we must agree to disagree. I strongly suggest >>to Rudiak, however, that he submit his study of the Ramey Memo >>to a peer-reviewed, scientific journal, as I have done. I will >>continue my work on the problem in the way I feel it should be >>handled, and I will disseminate the results (be they pro or >>con) in said forums. >In case you missed it folks, what Jim Houran just executed >is known in debating and debunking circles as the "discreet >withdrawal". Congratulations, David. Reality check, Tom. As I have said repeatedly, I urge anyone that has issues with my study or proposals to submit a formal Letter to the Editor of the JSE, as well as submit their own work to a peer-reviewed, scientifc journal, and allow others to independently attempt to replicate and validate that work. That is what we academics call the scientific method. Some of the comments I have read make me, an outsider to ufology, think that selected ufologists and researchers have never heard of it, or have no practical knowledge re: research methods and study design. I don't hide from criticism or debate, nor I do refrain from giving it where I see it should be applied, as anyone who knows me and my work record can attest. Indeed, there is nothing discreet about me. My impression is that my work on the Ramey problem scares people who have clear vested interests in particular interpretations of the Ramey Memo. Tom, the person you should really congratulate is Kevin Randle, who has had remarkable fortitude in resisting participation in this thread. That is what we call in certain circles "class". Good luck to you, Tom, and all other researchers on your work on the Ramey Memo. I look forward to seeing it published in scientific journals. Sincerely, Jim Houran
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 31 'Fire Officer's Guide to Disaster Control' From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 17:06:20 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 17:06:20 -0500 Subject: 'Fire Officer's Guide to Disaster Control' Below, from the archives here at UFO UpDates, for reference only, is Chapter 13 from the guide: ----- Source: ParaNet - 11-17-95 The following excerpt appeared in Fire Officer's Guide to Disaster Control by William M. Kramer and Charles W. Bahme. It is copyright (c) 1992 by Fire Engineering Books & Videos. ParaNet has provided this for information and education purposes only. Below is the text from Chapter 13 of the Fire Officer's Guide to Disaster Control dealing with none other than UFOs. On the surface, it might appear to be the author's life-long interest in the subject of UFOs, but something very much more important is going on here. This manual is a national guide used by many local fire officials in disaster planning, and it is also approved by FEMA (Federal Emergency Management Act). With all of the denial by official military channels of the reality of UFOs, it surprises us to see that a manual with so much information would even broach the subject of UFOs in such an "official" way. Although this chapter is not an "official" proclamation of UFOs, it serves to show how seriously this subject may be taken by some in official positions of the government, including FEMA. Although the 1942 aerial attack by UFOs is glossed over by many UFO researchers, it appears to have created quite an impression on the author of this manual. As many of you will recall, the Air Force took a considerable amount of heat from the UFO research community following the closure of Project Blue Book, with a training manual that was used at the Air Force Academy, one chapter dealing with UFOs (ParaNet has the chapter in their database). Following strong protests, the Air Force ordered the manaul revised to remove this chapter. This chapter is much like the material below. We at ParaNet wonder if "War of the Worlds" is being taken more seriously than anyone previously knew or admitted? Our thanks to Brian Wood for scanning this article. [BEGIN] CHAPTER 13: ENEMY ATTACK AND UFO POTENTIAL FEW RESIDENTS of the United States, except for those in Hawaii, have experienced an enemy attack on their hometown in this century; some think they have. The Great Los Angeles Air Raid of February 26, 1942, began at 2:25 A.M. when the U.S. Army announced the approach of hostile aircraft and the cities air raid warning system went into effect for the first time in World War II. "Suddenly the night was rent by sirens. Searchlights began to sweep the sky. Minutes later gun crews at Army forts along the coast line began pumping the first of 1,433 rounds of ack-ack into the moonlight. Thousands of volunteer air raid wardens tumbled from their beds and grabbed their boots and helmets. Citizens awakened to the screech of sirens and, heedless of the blackout warning, began snapping on their lights . . . The din continued for two hours. Finally the guns fell silent. The enemy, evidently, had been routed. Los Angeles began to taste the exhilaration of its first military victory. "(1) ------------------ THE UFO THREAT--A FACT In this chapter we will now turn our attention to the very real threat posed by Unidentified Flying Objects (UFOs), whether they exist or not. The well-documented and highly publicized War of the Worlds radio drama by Orson Welles shows how even a perceived existence to alien creatures can cause very real disaster-like conditions and panic among a given populace. In addition, if the apparent visits by alien beings and their space vehicles should pose any type of threat, it will, as always, be the fire service that is called upon to provide the first line of life-saving defense and disaster mitigation . On April 25,1991, radio station KSHE in St. Louis, Missouri. was fined $25,000 by the Federal Communications Commission for broadcasting a mock warning of a nuclear attack during the Persian Gulf War. The seriousness with which the FCC treated this case is indicative of the very real panic that can be created from even illusionary or fictional phenomena. Certainly if these unexplainable events become more prevalent, the possibility of panic could be even greater; and again, the fire department will be the agency called upon to handle the situation.(35) Hence, as we near the year 2000 and move beyond, any comprehensive disaster plan should address the potential for panic and other deleterious effects that might befall a populated area when unexplainable phenomena occur. We will see, as we continue our discussion in this chapter, that widespread blackouts, communication disruptions, and other potentially disastrous conditions have been linked directly to UFO sightings. Hence, fire service leaders who want to ensure that their disaster planning is complete will not neglect an appendix to outline those things that could be done in preparation for the occurrence of such phenomena. Throughout this book, many of the references to actual events are based on the experiences of both of the authors. However, in this area of UFOs and their potential, we are relying largely on the research and experiences of Charles Bahme. Chuck has made a considerable study of this subject and is acquiring many publications and VCR tapes to augment his library on this and related phenomena. His interest in UFOs was greatly heightened when Congress in 1969 adopted a law (14 CFR Ch. V Part 1211-- Extraterrestrial Exposure) which gave the NASA Administrator the arbitrary discretion to quarantine under armed guard any object, person, or other form of life which has been extraterrestrially exposed. The very fact that our congressmen believed there was a necessity for such drastic authority made Chuck wonder if they had only our astronauts in mind when they adopted it. Could it be applied to anyone who has had a UFO encounter? Whether it has or not is not likely to be a topic for public dissemination. UFO Discussion--Why Now? The subject of UFOs (Unidentified Flying Objects) was not included in previous editions of this book. The first edition was the Handbook of Disaster Control which Chuck personally published in 1952 following his release from active naval duty in the Korean War. Although his services in the conflict as Security Coordinator for the Chief of Naval Operations involved the creation of a worldwide disaster control organization for the protection of the physical properties of the Navy, it must be admitted that the directives approved for this new organization did not reflect any significant concern for a flying saucer threat to its shore establishment. That was in the 1950s. Now that we are in the 1990s it is doubtful that the UFO potential would be brushed off so lightly by our military security forces. This change of attitude was evidenced as far back as December 24, 1959, when the Inspector General of the Air Force issued the following Operations and Training Order: "Unidentified Flying Objects--sometimes treated lightly by the press and referred to as 'Flying Saucers'--must be rapidly and accurately identified as serious Air Force business...."(36) There is no uncertainty about the reality of the war between nations on our planet and the disastrous effects of military actions. The 200 sorties flown every hour against Iraq in the Persian Gulf provided ample evidence of global war's destructive power. On the other hand, there are many persons who may believe that a discussion of the theoretical harm that could be caused by a real or imaginary invasion of UFOs would be 'far out!" But this is not so for the thousands of witnesses of unexplained aerial phenomena. To them it is also serious business. Chuck's interest in UFOs commenced during the early morning hours of August 26,1942, while he was roller skating from his house to the nearest fire station a few blocks away; the wail of sirens had signaled his recall to fire duty, and with the stringent blackout orders in effect. driving was not wise; besides, it was much more exciting to be out in the open where he could see the spectacular aerial "fireworks" that filled the heavens all around him. Few residents of the U.S. had ever experienced a real or imaginary invasion of UFOs like that which occurred in what has become known as "The Los Angeles Air Raid of 1942." The Army announced the approach of hostile aircraft and the city's air raid warning system went into effect for the first time in World War II. The defense to this "attack" is described in dramatic terms in the opening paragraph of this chapter. But what enemy had been routed? No one ever knew. All the fire fighters saw in the sky were the 15 or 20 moving "things" which seemed to change course at great speed apparently unaffected by the flak from bursting shells all around them. Rumors that one had been shot down were never verified, nor was the explanation that these zig-zagging invaders were weather balloons ever taken seriously. In any event, for Chuck, that unforgettable episode aroused a continuing interest in UFOs, rivalling his professional fields of law and fire protection. The fact that he subsequently was a member of a group whose sighting of a flight of UFOs was authenticated by airport radar helped to sustain that interest. UFO Background Information With no intention of trying to prove or disprove the authenticity of the numerous UFO encounters often related by very credible witnesses including airline and military pilots, astronauts, police officers, fire fighters, members of Congress, and even a U.S. President, the balance of this chapter will present a brief history and nature of UFOs and their alleged occupants; their widespread sightings over the globe since ancient times; their appearance, propulsion origin, and possible motives for continuing reconnaissance. A quick look at some of the classic accounts of encounters documented in numerous foreign and U.S. publications might help us judge the magnitude of their threat, if any, to social stability, and, if deemed desirable, propose a fire service plan for coping with some of the conceivable catastrophic effects that UFOs could produce on cities and densely populated areas. For readers who already have made up their minds that there is no such thing as a UFO notwithstanding the overwhelming evidence to the contrary, it should be pointed out that there is circumstantial evidence that disastrous effects have already been attributed to UFO activity in more than one nation, including the United States. UFOs--What Are They? William Shakespeare put a fitting observation in the mouth of Hamlet, the Prince of Denmark, that went like this: "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamed of in your philosophy." Whether Hamlet was referring to those strange lights or objects that appear in the sky or near the ground and have no known cause, we will never know, but the World Book Encyclopedia defines such things as UFOs.(37) Several theories have been propounded as to what they might be. Some scientists believe that they are of extraterrestrial origin--coming from other planets. Military officers conjecture that they might be alien aircraft. Some attribute them all to natural causes, such as meteors, comets, sun dogs, light reflections, marsh gas, ball lightning, even though they must admit that scientists cannot explain all UFO reports in that manner. Still others are inclined to believe that they may be forms from other dimensions which can materialize and dematerialize at will perhaps by making a wavelength or frequency transition so as to become invisible to humans. Some believe they are time travelers from the future. UFO Classification System Dr. J. Allen Hynek, Northern University Professor Emeritus of Astronomy and an advisor to the Air Force's Blue Book Project. adopted a very simple classification system based solely upon the manner of observation: 1. Nocturnal lights 2. Daylight disks 3. Close encounters (day or night) 4. Radar readings. He concluded that this system tells us nothing about the nature of the UFOs, but can suggest a means for gathering data.(38) He found that while a large number of such reports were readily identifiable by trained investigators as misconceptions of known objects or events, a small residue (about 1.000) were not. These came from credible witnesses from such widely separated places as Canada. Australia. South America, and Antarctica. He concludes with: "Although I know of no hypothesis that adequately covers the mountainous evidence, this should not and must not deter us from following the advice of Schroedinger: to be curious, capable of being astonished, and eager to find out."(39) Dr. Hynek has an excellent, well-illustrated article on UFOs in a 1982 book which gives a detailed history of the UFO sightings, together with the reports of some well-known people who made them, including President Jimmy Carter while governor of Georgia.(40) Shapes of UFOs Witnesses have described the shapes of UFOs as anything varying from a sphere to a boomerang. Some have resembled flying saucers with a lid; others a glowing tube; some as semi-spherical with colored apertures; some with reddish-orange glows, or fire-like or sparking discharges. Incredible speed and maneuverabilities not attainable by aircraft of any kind are commonly observed. Many of the books and articles in Appendix H have excellent photographs of these unexplained visitors--photos that have been checked by experts for their authenticity. History of UFOs For hundreds of years mysterious objects in the sky and strange moving lights have been reported by many people, including the military pilots in World War II who called them foo fighters, ("Where there's Foo, there's Fire"). In the middle of the 1900s flying saucers were increasingly observed in the United States and other countries. Scientists at the University of Colorado hired by the Air Force from 1966 to 1968 to study this type of aerial phenomena could explain most of the UFO reports as a star (Venus), meteor, planet, balloon, rocket, artificial satellite, etc. Sometimes atmospheric conditions, aircraft exhaust trails, or unusual lighting conditions may produce optical illusions that observers thought were UFOs. After investigating more than 12,000 reports, the U.S. Air Force was unable to explain where the unexplained UFOs come from, but apparently concluded that the national security was not threatened by them.(41) The emphasis of the university's team, headed by Edward U. Condon, seemed to be more concerned with the establishment of the emotional stability or instability of those who reported the sightings than with other evidence. Psychiatrists have examined the witnesses who claimed to have encountered UFOs and even been taken aboard their craft, such as the two shipyard workers in Mississippi, and found that they are not unbalanced people.(42) "They're not crackpots. There was definitely something here that was not terrestrial."(43) Dr. J. Allen Hynek agreed, and added. "Where they are coming from and why they are here is a matter of conjecture. but the fact that they were here on this planet is beyond a reasonable doubt."(44) The Air Force. after 20 years of being deluged with UFO sightings and spending millions of dollars on their investigation, decided to drop the inquiry business and turned the project over to a Kensington, Maryland, group called NICAP (National Investigation Committee on Aerial Phenomena). This left NASA (National Aeronautics and Space Administration) with part of the task of trying to run UFO sighting reports, including many by its own Apollo and Skylab astronauts. By 1974 over a score of astronauts saw and photographed UFOs during their flights beyond the earth's atmosphere. Early in the Apollo 11 mission, which culminated in the moon walk, astronauts Neil Armstrong, Edwin Aldrin, and Michael Collins reported sightings of what seemed to be a UFO during the first half of their flight to the lunar surface. There were many more sightings by U.S. and Soviet Astronauts. On November 11,1966, Gemini XII astronauts Jim Lovell and Edwin Aldrin said that they saw four UFOs linked together, and on October 12, 1964, three Russian astronauts aboard Voskod reported that they were surrounded by a "formation of fast-moving disc-shaped objects."(45) UFO Organizations In addition to NICAP, some of the other organizations that study UFO phenomena are MUFON (Mutual UFO Networks), CAUS (Citizens Against UFO Secrecy), GSW (Ground Saucer Watch), CUFOS (the Center for UFO Studies), and APRO (Aerial Phenomena Research Organization), an Arizona nonprofit scientific and educational organization, founded in 1952.(46) Why the Secrecy? In their book UFOs Over America, authors Jim and Carol Lorenzo charge that the CIA (Central Intelligence Agency) has been closely involved in the collection and suppression of UFO information. "Witnesses to the phenomena have been bribed, coerced, and threatened by the CIA, who wanted valuable evidence given to them alone."(47) One reason given is that military intelligence may view the UFOs as a tool of either a known or unknown potential enemy. "If these vehicles prove evasive and surreptitious, all the more reason to suspect them.... the probability looms large that the minds behind these vehicles may well be gathering intelligence of their own."(48) Another reason for secrecy may lie in the hope of obtaining knowledge relating to advanced propulsion methods and anti- gravity systems before other potential enemies on earth may acquire it. Hence, though many nations are secretly investigating UFOs, they are reluctant to share their findings. Robert Lofton, in his book Identified Flying Saucers, claims that the Air Force became the "goat" in the effort of the CIA to debunk many sightings by pilots, radar technicians. and reliable civilian observers. He thinks that the suppression of information about how dangerous UFOs can be is wrong. After citing a case where a child was burned over 50 to 60 percent of her body by a low flying UFO and then taken to an Air Force hospital, no one would explain why her clothes were not burned at the same time. He also describes another burn case in New Mexico and another man who recently received a sledge-hammer like blow that knocked him unconscious by the force field of a 100-foot diameter UFO. "The public ought to be told the danger! . . . Nothing helps rumors and panic more than ignorance."(49) Major Donald Keyhoe describes in his book Aliens from Space, The Real Story of Unidentified Flying Objects the difficulties he had in 1957 in trying to get the truth from government agencies after he was director of NICAP, the world's largest UFO research organization with over 30 subcommittees in the U.S. and abroad.(50) According to some UFOlogists the attempts at cover-up by the CIA extend to destruction of evidence that it could not confiscate. Apparently some of our nation's important leaders have been denied access to some UFO secrets in the possession of an agency of the United States, the very existence of which is classified above top secret.(51) Senator Barry Goldwater, a retired Air Force Reserve Brigadier General and pilot with many decades of flying experience, was quoted as saying "I certainly believe in aliens in space. They may not look like us, but I have very strong feelings that they have advanced beyond our mental capabilities." He said he was refused permission to check the Air Force files on UFOs and added, "I think some highly secret government UFO investigations are going on that we don't know about--and probably never will unless the Air Force discloses them."(52) He said that he put faith in the reports of the Air Force, Navy, and commercial pilots who reported instances where a UFO would fly near them--right off their plane's wing--and then just zoom away at incredible speeds. "I remember the case in Georgia in the 1950s of a National Guard plane going after a UFO and never returning. And I recall the case in Franklin. Kentucky, when four military planes investigated a UFO. One of them exploded in midair and no one knows why."(53) Unleashed by the policy of Glasnost (greater openness) the Soviet media felt free to include accounts of UFO sightings. A Tuss report of October 10, 1989, reported a large shiny ball or disk hovering over a Voronezh park; residents saw the UFO land and three creatures similar to human beings emerged, accompanied by a robot.(54) Apparently the Russians felt no need to suppress this report which was poked fun at in Newsweek and Time magazines(55) but not in U.S. News and World Report: "A scant few decades ago, both the U.S. government and the media treated flying objects as no laughing matter--which even Congress looked into. In 1966, Representative Ford responded to a rash of sightings in his home state of Michigan by calling for, and getting, a House hearing on UFOs."(56) UFO Missions Many reasons have been advanced for the purpose of the UFOs visits to our planet. Although some of the persons who apparently have been the subjects of genetic investigation, such as the family of Whitley Streiber may not agree, the majority of those who have studied possible UFO visitors feel that they are friendly. Mr. Streiber described his experience as terrifying, and believes that these "little figures with eyes that seem to stare into the deepest core of being are asking for something. Whatever it is, it is more than simple information. The goal does not seem to be a sort of clear and open exchange that we might expect; whatever may be surfacing, it wants far more than that. It seems to me that it seeks the very depth of soul; it seeks communion."(57) From the thousands of reports he has studied. William Spaulding, aerospace engineer and head of the Arizona-based Ground Saucer Watch, believes that a pattern indicates that UFOs are here on a surveillance mission: the fact that a majority of sightings occur around our military installations, research and development areas leads to the conclusion that a methodical study is being made of the earth and its defensive and offensive capabilities. "The phenomena is not unlike our own space explorations: scout ship survey: soil samples; landing."(58) In his book Incident at Exeter, John Fuller discusses the seeming affinity of UFOs for electrical power lines in the northeastern part of the United States. In a later section of this chapter dealing with the effects of UFOs on our terrestrial activities, we will see how this affinity may have been responsible for causing 36 million people to lose power over an area of 8,000 square miles.(59) Because of our recent adventures into space, there are some who speculate that UFOs are more concerned with what we will do there than in settling here. In any event, the Air Force's official publication (issued by the Government Printing Office 1968) called Flying Objects says that 'No UFO has been determined to represent a threat to our national security. ' That conclusion, however, should not rule out less disastrous consequences than the overthrow of our government. ADVERSE POTENTIAL OF UFOS Regardless of its past evaluations, the Air Force could be wrong about a number of things. "It can't even guess within a couple of billion dollars what one of its planes is going to cost; maybe, despite the skepticism of the scientists and other investigators, the UFOs sent from other planets do exist and have visited earth."(60) And maybe they have exhibited some destructive effects, whether or not intentionally in every instance, which we need to consider when drafting a plan for coping with an emergency situation where UFOs are involved. Some of these documented effects are as follows. UFO Hazards The two principal hazards noted with relation to UFOs have been attributed to powerful electrical fields which they can project in a general or localized area and the psychological effects they have produced on the general populace or individual contacts. Force Field Impact The disruption of air and ground travel has often been reported in the presence of UFOs. The ignition systems of auto and aircraft engines have apparently been affected by energized force fields to such an extent as to stop their operation; the headlights and radios have also ceased to function. Here are a couple of examples. In Buenos Aires, on March 29, 1978, "A strange force shut off their engine and headlights of their Citroen CG, lifted it 15 feet off the road, then set it down a minute later and 75 miles to the north." The driver had noticed a yellow and violet light shining in his rear view mirror while driving the last leg of a long stock car race, and he realized that it was approaching too fast to be a competitor. A month later a Colombian bank manager and a navy officer had their car headlights go off when buzzed by a UFO, with the navy man suffering temporary paralysis. Other South American countries in which similar actions were reported around that time included Argentina, Chile, Peru, and Uruguay.(61) These effects have also been noted to influence the controls and instruments of aircraft, e.g., the pilot of a Piper PH-24 reported that his controls became inoperable when he was approached by three disk-shaped objects, 10 to 12 feet in diameter, over Mexico City on May 3,1975.(62) Similar cases have been reported by military pilots, illustrated by the classic case of the near mid-air collision of an army helicopter with a UFO on October 18, 1973, over Ohio, where not only did both the UHF and VHF radio wave- lengths go dead temporarily, but the downward movement of the helicopter with its four occupants was levitated upward by a green beam from the UFO in time to prevent its crash into the ground.(63) Communications Disruption In addition to the impedance of radio transmissions and reception, such as that described in the preceding incident, telephone interference has occurred, illustrated by the chagrin of President Lyndon Johnson in having his conversation from the Texas White House cut off while talking to assistants in Washington, D.C.(64) The ability to render inoperable all electronic forms of communications, including those that control the launching of defense weapons systems, has been considered within the range of UFO capability. Whether this could extend to the erasing of recorded computer data such as bank records, personnel data, FBI, CIA, and NSA files, along with critical information of every kind, is not beyond the realm of possibility. Regional Power Blackouts It has long been suspected that UFOs have the capability of blacking out a city, state, or many states by exerting a force field sufficient to overload the circuits of public and private utility installations. "Few things are more disturbing than to be plunged into pitch darkness without warning; it is dangerous for masses of people. It paralyzes cities, blocks highways, stops trains, leaves elevators suspended between floors. In general it simply plays hell with the modern way of life."(65) You would think that the power companies would have achieved sufficient reliability in their high tech systems that a mass failure such as that which blacked out New York and New England in 1965 would never happen--but it did. Although, as we have mentioned before, it was known that UFO activity was associated with disturbances with compasses. instruments, ignition systems, radios, etc., it was inconceivable that it could also interfere with generation and distribution of electrical power. Such a connection was also inferred in November 1953, when a glowing red object went over a residential area of New Haven, Connecticut, causing lights to dim out on both sides of the object's path and then come on when it went out of sight. Power failures were also reported in association with UFOs in Brazil in 1957 to l959~ Rome, Italy, in 1958; and Mexico in 1965. Likewise, in Uberlandia, where the power station operators promptly closed the circuits when the UFO apparently caused them to open, it did no good, and they were unable to restore the power until the UFO departed. "The Granddaddy of all blackouts to date was the stygian blanket that fell over 30 million people in the northeastern corner of the U.S. during the early evening rush hour period on November 9, 1965."(66) Relay services that were supposed to automatically transfer the load in case of failure in one area to an alternate source malfunctioned. Military communications relying on public power without alternate backup systems also failed, but communications were operable to make a quick public announcement that there was no military emergency. Though it was largely over by the next morning, the official explanation about a malfunctioning small device in a Canadian hydroelectric generating plant never accounted for the failure of millions of dollars worth of electronic devices to shift the load when the breakdown occurred. Fireballs Over Syracuse--The Blackout Connection Airplane pilots reported that UFOs were being chased across Pennsylvania about 4:30 P.M., and electronics and construction engineers who were driving in the area of the Syracuse airport saw UFOs moving about 5:30 P.M., just prior to the Great Blackout. A veteran flight instructor who had been flying over Syracuse on a training flight saw a glowing globe over the power lines leading to the Niagara Falls generating plant. Hundreds of others saw the glowing object in the sky on the night of the big power failure. That was on November 9th. On December 2nd, about 700,000 persons in Texas, New Mexico, and Mexico also had their power fail. It was said to have originated in a regular failure in El Paso; then on December 5th, three nights later. 40,000 homes plus military installations in the area of East Texas were also blacked out--overloaded! Missile grounds (White Sands), Fort Bliss, Holloman Air Force Base, and numerous airports were all blacked out (with no emergency power backup), and this was when President Johnson's telephone call to the White House in Washington, D.C. was cut off. In response to his request for an explanation, President Johnson was told that his calls were fed into a cable system that went dead when the surge of power caused by the El Paso regulator blow-up hit it, and the backup batteries didn't work. Though it may be debatable whether the above cases of electrical transmission failure were merely coincidences with UFO activity, an incident on April 18,1962, involving a UFO that had been tracked from New York, through Kansas to Eureka, Utah, was well documented. The Air Force spokesman admitted that the object had landed, and during the 42 minutes that it was on the ground near the power station there was no power, but it was restored when the UFO left. The object was pursued by jet interceptors summoned from Phoenix and Stead Field in Reno until it exploded over the Mesquite Range in Nevada in a brilliant glare that was visible over five states.(67) UFOs--The Panic Hazard The second major disastrous effect that UFO activity, real or imagined, can have on the populace, is the creation of fear, panic, flight, and all kinds of irrational behavior. We have mentioned already the rather well-documented case of hysterical contagion and mass hysteria created by War of the Worlds, the radio drama by Orson Welles about an invasion of Martians. It was broadcast on Halloween of 1938 during the period of the invasions of Germany into Austria and Japan into China. "The drama, realistically presented in the form of news bulletins and interviews concerning an alien spaceship landing in New Jersey, resulted in many kinds of hysterical actions, including thousands of panic-stricken phone calls, wildly fleeing automobiles, and impromptu shot gun brigades."(68) Though most persons reporting UFOs do not interpret them as personal threats, it is possible that some of the large volume of reports may be attributable to hysterical contagion. In any case, one of the reasons often cited for the tight secrecy on government UFO research findings is the need to prevent the possible panic that a revelation of the truth might arouse. Rumors that people were being abducted, dematerialized, burned, made radioactive, rounded up and impounded, liquidated with ray guns and lasers or shipped off to Mars or Venus might well give rise to fear--fear of the unknown. Hysteria could cause frightened persons to imagine that their water was poisoned, the air contaminated with undetectable but lethal aerosols or nerve gases. With hundreds of UFO squadrons zooming across the landscape from California to New York, Toronto to Mexico City, communications disrupted, widespread power failures, airports and railroads paralyzed, highways turned into giant parking lots of immobilized vehicles full of terrified motorists, the problem of restoring order and sanity would be a tremendous challenge to all of the emergency services, assuming their personnel would remain calm, detached. and able to resist the human impulse to put the safety and well being of their own families ahead of the public's. To make matters worse, some of the more excitable gun owners might be tempted to rush out Rambo fashion, and in utter disregard of the damage that falling bullets might cause innocent residents below their fallout, start firing at the evasive objects regardless of the range. Personal Hazards--Physiological The force field affects on the physical environment-- communication, transportation, illumination, and computerized data storage--have already been considered. We might have added that some physical effects have been observed at locations where UFOs have landed-- circular patterns of crops destroyed by heat or radiation and baking or sterilization of the soil at the site. On a more practical basis there may be grounds for concern that more than just the environment can be adversely affected by UFO actions. While pursuing UFOs, military aircraft have disappeared in mid-air, exploded, and suffered harassment. Persons on the ground have sustained serious burns, paralysis, and "blows" from a force field, radiated emissions, or rays and beams that have been described like that of a "stun-gun"(69) In 1980, three witnesses saw a red ball of light hovering above houses in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, when suddenly a bolt of blue light shot down and two houses burst into flames.(70) An Indiana man saw a bright light flash pass his window; the power went off in his house so he went outside to investigate and found a brilliantly lit object hovering above him; when he started to walk toward it his body commenced to tingle and he was unable to move until the object disappeared. A similar tingling sensation swept over another man in Lvnn, Massachusetts. one night when he approached a domed object with a red glowing cone rising from a parking lot. He too was immobile until the object moved out of sight. Some believe that even animals may be at risk by UFOs; in trying to account for the death of 15 ponies, the leader of an investigative team believed they were crushed by the anti- gravity field of a flying saucer as it took off.(71) Thus, UFOs may not only have the power to control some of our military and industrial establishment's highly technical scientific hardware, they may also possess the ability to impose pain and control over people who attempt to attack them, even to the extent of "liquidating" them in one way or another. UFOS--EMERGENCY ACTION In view of the fact that many UFOlogists believe that we are fast approaching a time when overt landings of UFOs will become less remarkable, and in the absence of our knowing whether their visits are friendly or hostile, it would not be remiss to give some thought to the part that fire departments might play in the event of the unexpected arrival of UFOs in their communities. For example, what would be your course of action as an incident commander at the scene of a school ground where a UFO has crashed into the boiler room, rupturing a fuel line, and ignition has occurred in the spilling oil, endangering the occupants of the craft who are trapped in the wreckage? If your rescue attempts are successful, and two of the five small alien creatures are injured but still alive, how do you dispose of the dead and treat the survivors? How would the presence of children on the school grounds affect your actions? What persons and agencies would be notified? The authors have never read any advice on these matters. The following admonition was printed on the inside front jacket of Frank Edward's book on flying saucers: WARNING "Near approaches of UFOs can be harmful to human beings. Do not stand under a UFO that is hovering at low altitude. Do not touch or attempt to touch a UFO that has landed. In either case the safe thing to do is to get away from there very quickly and let the military take over. There is a possibility of radiation danger and there are known cases where persons have been burned by rays emanating from UFOs. Don't take chances with UFOs!" In view of the federal law (cited earlier) empowering NASA's administrator to impound, without a hearing, anyone who touches a UFO or its occupants. it would be inadvisable to make personal contact unless you are willing to submit to NASA's quarantine requirements, should the law be invoked. Besides the possible physical effects of approaching a UFO, e.g.. burns, radiation, etc., there may be psychological effects produced by force fields that could induce a hypnotic state in the viewer, loss of consciousness, memory relapse, and submission to the occupants. Jacques Vallee, author of The Invisible College cautions that we should consider psychic effects, such as space-time distortions experienced by percipients of craft-like devices which appear to fade away-- dematerialize--and then reappear; of alien, strange voices or thoughts that may effect involuntary changes in the manner in which witnesses may react in such circumstances.(72) Perhaps the above warnings of Edwards and Vallee are a little too cautious and apprehensive to adopt as a general pattern of conduct in every situation. In the absence of overt acts indicating hostility, there may be no danger in approaching a landing (or landed) UFO with a positive, solicitous attitude of wanting to be of service. This nonaggressive mental state may be telepathically sensed by those aboard or emerging from the craft; a form of nonvocal communication is a possibility. It goes without saying that any display of firearms or other weapons on your part could be construed as unfriendly and likely to thwart your intention of conveying a helpful attitude. In a best case scenario, you may be able to obtain guidance as to the appropriate actions to take, whether of a life-saving nature, e.g., in quelling a fire, abating a spill, and of preservation of property, or even in the reduction of apprehension on the part of your response team and the spectators. In a less optimistic scenario, you may have engine trouble upon approaching the scene, and radio contact could be lost with your dispatcher. If at night, your headlights could go out, the city could be blacked out, and your portable generators may malfunction when you attempt to use them for fans and portable lights. It would certainly be an inopportune time for your comrades to announce that they had decided to take their pensions, effective immediately. In any event, the incident could provide invaluable experience for further training in coping with rare and difficult emergencies. Whatever "inside" information you are able to pass along to your fellow officers and citizens of the world might help to alleviate unreasonable fear, so that there would be less likelihood that we would ever again experience the panic and hysteria that was created by War of the Worlds a half century ago. Truth is the best cure for the unknown. A list of some of the available books on Unidentified Flying Objects (UFOs) is found in Appendix H. CONCLUSION Some fire chiefs have little confidence in disaster plans, especially those dealing with UFOs or enemy attack. If you develop a plan that sets forth your responsibilities, resources, organizations, supplies information, telephone numbers, and special data that will be useful in obtaining help and fulfilling your role in disaster control, commit it to an electronic medium, a computer with a capability for continuous updating through modern word processing. Bring it forth when the need requires. With a good plan, good leadership, and adequate resources, you may save many lives in any disaster, including attack from possible enemies. CHAPTER 13 REFERENCES 1. Smith. Iack. "The Night L.A. Bombed." Los Angeles Times, September 9, 1975, Part 1, p. I . 2. World Book Encyclopedia, Volume 21, p. 21, Chicago, IL Field Enterprises Educational Corporation, 1976. 3. Cloud, Stanley W. "Gathering Storm" in Time, September 3, 1990, pp. 24-28. 4. "Secret History of the War" in Newsweek, March 18,1991, p.28. 5. "Snubbing People Power" in U.S. News ~ World Report, April 8,1991, p.38. 6. World Book Encyclopedia, Vol. 21, p.22. Field Enterprises Educational Corporation, Chicago, IL 1976. 7. "Preparing for Iraqi Chemical Warfare," photo and story in Time, September 3,1990, p.26. 8. "Steel Rain' in Newsweek, March 18,1991, p.31. 9. See note 2, volume 9, p. 416. 10. See Chapter 8 for a more in-depth discussion of terrorism. 11. Gilliam. l. "A-Bomb Materials Can Be Stolen, Expert Says," Los Angeles Times, December ll. 1975, Part Il, p. 1. 12. Nuclear Blackmail Emergency Response Plan for the State of California, Officer of Emergency Service, State of California, June 1976. 13. "After the Storm" in Newsweek, March 11, 1991, pp. 26-29. 14. Nuclear Attack and Industrial Survival, McGraw-Hill Publishing Company Special Report, 1962, p.52. 15. Willenson, K., and L. Norman. "Missiles on the Move" in Newsweek, February 16, 1976, p.42. 16. CBS News broadcast, April 1991. 17. Disaster Planning Guide for Business and Industry, Defense Civil Preparedness Agency, 1974, p.7, U.S. Government Printing Office, Washington, D.C. 18. L. A. Postal Report, Volume 10, No. 9, April 23,1965, p.2, Los Angeles, CA. 19. Worldwide Effects of Nuclear War--Some Perspectives, a Report of the U.S. Arms Control and Disarmament Agency, 1975, p. 5, U.S. Government Printing Office, Washington, D.C. 20. Ibid. p. 6. 21. "Turning Up the Heat on the Greenhouse" in Newsweek, April 22, 1991, p. 69. 22. See note 19, p. 6. 23. Seenote 19, p. 5. 24. "Deadly Meltdown" in Time, May 12, 1986, p. 39. 25. "A 'Big 50' for Pearl Harbor in USA Today, Thursday, May 9, 1991. p. 3A. 26. Bahme,.Charles W. Fire Officer's Guide To Disaster Control, Ist ed., Boston, MA: NFPA 1978, p. 340. 27. Fire Effects of Bombing Attacks, Technical Manual 9-2, October 1959, Office of Civil Defense Mobilization, U.S. Government Printing Office, Washington, D.C. 28. Fire Aspects of Civil Defense, TR-25, Office of Civil Defense, ~uly 1968, p. 4, U.S. Government Printing Office, Washington, D.C. 29. World Book Encyclopedia, 1991. 30. Disaster Operations, Defense Civil Preparedness Agency, 1972. p. 29, U.S. Government Printing Office, Washington, D.C. 31. Bruno, Hal. "The Wait May Be Over at FEMA" in Firehouse, Vol. 15, No. 5 (May 1990) p. 10. 32. See note 30, p. 40. 33. The U.S. Government Printing Office, Washington, D.C. has several publications available as of 1991 which suggest measures that can be taken to safeguard dwellings and other buildings, in preparation for a nuclear attack; they illustrate the relative protection afforded for fallout radiation by various types of construction and in various locations within a building. Two available from the U.S.Government Printing Office, are Fallout Protection and ln Time of Emergency, both Office of Civil Defense. 34. Weldon, Curt. "The Fight for Fire Protection" in Firehouse, Vol. 16, No. 4 (April 1991), p. 20. 35. Radio Broadcast on station KSHE, St. Louis, MO, reported on April 25, 1991. 36. Edwards, Frank. Flying Saucers--Serious Business, NY: Lyle Stuart,965. p. 315. 37. World Book Encyclopedia, World Book Inc., 1988, Vol. 20, p. 19. 38. Sagan, Carl, and Thornton Page. UFOs--A Scientific Deoate, Cornell Univ., 1972, p. 44. 39. Ibid. p. 51. 40. Readers Digest. Mysteries Of The Unexplained, p. 219. 41. Steiger, Brad, Editor. Project Blue Book. NY: Ballantine Books, 1976, p. 170. 42. Uphoff, Walter and Mary lo, New Psychic Frontiers, Colin Smyth Ltd., 1975. p. 152. 43. Ibid., quoting Dr. James Harder, University of California. 44. Ibid. p. 152. 45. Macomber, Frank. "UFOs Spotted by Astronauts Still Haven't Been Identified," Santa Cruz Sentinel, April 17, 1974, p. 30. 46. APRO's addre$s was given as 3910 E. Kleindale Rd.. Tucson, Arizona, 85716. 47. Lorenzen, lim and Coral. UFOs Over America, NY: Signet. 1968, pp. 182 et seq. 48. Ibid. p. 186. 49. Lofton, Robert. ldentified Flying Saucers, NY: David McKay Co., 1968, p. 86. 50. Kehoe, Donald, Major. Aliens From Space, The Real Story of the UFOs, New York: Doubleday, 1972. 51. Friedman, Stanton. Cosmic Watergate, New Realities, 1979; Hvnek, l. Allen. "UFOs." This World, Aug. 30, 1981, p. 13. 52. Zullo, Allan A. "I Believe That Earth Has Been Visited By Creatures From Outer Space," National Enquirer, December 1973. 53. Ibid. p. 2. 54. Press Democrat, October 10, 1989, p. A-5; also reported in weekly news magazines; see notes 22 and 23. 55. Time, October 23,1989; Newsweek, October 30,1989; UFO update, Omni, January 1990. 56. U.S. News ~ World Report, "UFOs in Uncle Sam's Closet," October 23, 1989, p. 19. 57. Streiber, Whitley. Communion, NY: William Morrow, 1987, p. 15. 58. Adamski, George, lnside the Flying Saucers, NY: Paperback Library, 1967. p. 11. 59. Fuller, John. lncident at Exeter, cited in UFO Update, in New Realities,1978. p.52. 60. "Shooting Down The Flying Saucers," Los Angeles Times, December 15,1959, Pt. Il, p. 5. 61. Boudreaux, Richard. "South Americans Take UFOs Seriously," Los Angeles Times, November 29, 1978. Pt. VI, p. 7. 62. See note 6, p. 224. 63. Randles, Jenny. The UFO Conspiracy, NY: Sterling Pub. Co.. 1990, p. 105. 64. See note 1, p. 267. 65. See note 1, p. 255. 66. Ibid. p. 259. 67. Ibid. p. 269. 68. See note 4, p. 216. 69. Blundell, Nigel, and Roger Boar. The World's Greatest UFO Mysteries, NY: Berkeley Books, 1990, p. 175. 70. Ibid. p. 176. 71. Ibid. p. 179. 72. Vallee. Jacques. The Invisible College, NY: E. P. Dutton, 1975 p. 6. - - A P P E N D I X H BIBLIOGRAPHY ON UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS (UFOs) Above Top Secret, Timothy Good, William Morrow, NY, 1988. Aids to Identification of Flying Objects, Air Technical Intelligence Center, Gov't Printing Office, Supt. Doc., 1966. Aliens Among Us, Ruth Montgomery, Fawcett Crest, NY, 1985. Aliens from Space--The Real Story of UFOs, Donald E. Keyhoe, Doubleday, NY, 1972. Beyond Earth. Man's Contact with UFOs, Ralph and Judy Blum, Bantam Books, NY, 1974. Breakthrough to Creativity, Shafica Karakulla, M.D., De Vorss and Co., Marina Del Rey, CA, 1967. Chariots of the Gods, Erich Von Daniken, Putnam, NY, 1970. Clear Intent, Barry Greenfield, Prentice Hall, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, 1987. Communion, Whitley Streiber, William Morrow, NY, 1987. Extraterrestrial Visitations from Prehistoric Times to the Present, Henry Regnery Co., Chicago, 1970. Flying Saucers--Letters to the Air Force on UFOs, Bill Adler, Dell Books, NY, 1967. Flying Saucers--Serious Business, Frank Edwards, Lyle Stuart Inc., NY, 1966. Identified Flying Saucers, Robert Lofton, David McKay Co., NY, 1968. In Search of Extra Terrestrials, Alan Landsburg, Bantam Books, NY, 1967. Inside the Flying Saucers, George Adamski, Paperback Library, NY, 1967. Insights for the Age of Aquarius, Gina Cerminara, Theosophical Pub. House, Wheaton, IL, 1973. Intruders, Budd Hopkins, Random House, NY, 1987. Mysteries Of the Unexplained, Readers Digest, Readers Digest Assn., Pleasantville, NY, 1982. New Psychic Frontiers, Walter and Mary Jo Uphoff, Colin Smythe Ltd., and Bolger Pubs., Minneapolis, MN, 1975. Project Blue Book, Brad Steiger, Editor, Ballantine, NY, 1976. Strange World, Frank Edwards, Lyle Stuart, NY, 1965. Strangers Among Us, Ruth Montgomery, Fawcett Crest, NY, 1979. The Intruders, Budd Hopkins, Random House, NY, 1987. The Invisible College, Jacques Vallee, E.P. Dutton, NY, 1975. The Possibility of Intelligent Life Elsewhere in the Universe, U.S. House Committee on Science and Technology, Govt. Printing Office, 1975. The Roswell Incident, William L. Moore, Grosset and Dunlap, 1980. The UFO Conspiracy--The First Forty Years, Jenny Randles, Sterling Pub. Co., 1989. The Unexplained, Allen Spraggett, Signet, NY, 1967. The World's Greatest UFO Mysteries, Nigel Blundell and Roger Boar, Berkeley Book, 1990. The World's Last Mysteries, Readers Digest, Pleasantville, NY, 1978. UFO Abductions, Philip Klass, Prometheus Books, Buffalo, NY, 1989. UFO . . . Contact from the Pleiades, Lee and Brit Elders, Genesis III Pub. Co., Phoenix AZ, 1984. UFOs From Behind the Iron Curtain, lan Hobana and Julien Weverbergh, Bantam Books, NY, 1975. UFOs Over the Americas, Jim and Coral Lorenzen, Signet Books, NY, 1968. UFOs--A Scientific Debate, Carl Sagan and Thornton Page, Cornell University, NY, 1972. We Are Not The First, Andrew Thomas, Putnam & Sons, NY, 1971. Copyright ~ 1992, Fire Engineering Books & Videos Park 80 West, Plaza Two, 7th floor, Saddle Brook, Nl 07662 ABOUT THE AUTHORS DR. WILLIAM M. KRAMER has baccalaureate degrees in Industrial Management and Business Administration, a master s degree in Industrial Relations, and a Ph.D. in Administrative Management from the University of Cincinnati; and a master's degree in Business Administration from Xavier University. He has edited numerous course guides for the Open Learning Fire Service Program and published numerous fire service journal articles. He is chairman of the seven- University National Open Learning Educational Consortium, Associate Professor and Director of the Open Learning Program at the University of Cincinnati, a District Fire Chief for the City of Cincinnati and the educational commentator for American Heat video productions. CHARLES (CHUCK) BAHME is the author of many fire service articles as well as books, including the Handbook of Disaster Control, predecessor to the Fire Officer's Guide to Disaster Control, Fire Service and the Law, Fire Officer's Guide to Dangerous Chemicals, Fire Protection for Chemiculs, Fire Officers Guide to Emergency Action, Firemen's Law Book, and Fire Officer's Guide to Extinguishing Systems. After responding to a devastating chemical explosion in the City of Los Angeles he wrote its Dangerous Chemicals Code, the first comprehensive set of regulations ever adopted by any municipality pertaining to hazardous materials. Following his naval service in World War II he was called upon to write U. S. Navy: Structural Fire Fighting for the Chief of Naval Operations. In thirty years of service with the City of Los Angeles Fire Department he advanced through the ranks from recruit to deputy fire chief, the rank he held at the time of his retirement. During that period he augmented his A.B. degree from UCLA with a Juris Doctor degree from Southwestern University. Through the same years he served with the U. S. Navy: six years of active duty during World War II and the Korean conflict, and twenty-eight years with the Naval Reserve, in which he retired with the rank of Captain. Chief Bahme is an attorney at law with admission to practice in California, before federal district courts, the Supreme Court of the United States, and the highest court of military appeals. He has taught courses in fire protection engi- neering a UCLA, and fire administration at USC and various state, national, and international conferences. He has served in Europe and the Far East for the Department of Defense and the U. S. State Department. In recent years he has been teaching a course in Political and Legal Foundations of Fire Protection as a faculty member of Cogswell College's Open Learning Fire Service Program. He has also served as the NFPA's Fire Extinguishing Specialist, its Western Representative, and as chairman of its Committee on Hazardous Chemicals Fire Fighting. Upon his moving to Lake County, California, he served as the chairman of his local Kelseyville fire district's board of directors and as a disaster control visor to his local Red Cross chapter. END PARANET FILENAME: CHAP13.TXT
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 31 Re: Review Of Case MJ-12 Available - Bott From: Murray Bott <murrayb@win.co.nz> Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 08:16:41 +1300 (NZDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 17:07:48 -0500 Subject: Re: Review Of Case MJ-12 Available - Bott Greetings List (and Stan) >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 22:11:32 +0000 >>Subject: Re: Review Of Case MJ-12 Available >>I would love to read your review, but I object on principle to >>paying for a book review. Why do you charge for it? Why not >>submit it to one of the UFO journals? >Or put it on your website? Stan:- I aggree with this last suggestion to place it on your website. While I aggree that preparing a printed copy plus postage costs money, if you want your review widely available and thus make a point to researchers then do put this on your webpage. Murray Bott -- Email : murrayb@win.co.nz Voice : 64-9-6345285 Snail : PO Box 27117, Mt Roskill, Auckland 1030, New Zealand
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 31 Re: Corso - Peterborough From: Kelly Peterborough <kellymcg@attcanada.ca> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 14:31:07 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 17:09:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Peterborough >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 00:28:38 EST >Subject: Re: Corso >>From: Kelly Peterborough <kellymcg@attcanada.ca> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 11:19:45 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Corso >>>From: Colin Bennett <colin@bennettc25.fsnet.co.uk> >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 23:52:46 -0000 >>>Subject: Re: Corso >><snip> >>>Question - Where's Corso? >>Who is Corso? >Kelly, >Let me see if I get this right..... "What is Corso" is on third, >"Who is Corso" is on Second, and "Where is Corso" is on >first..... So is the short stop "That is Corso?" :) >The movie on this players life will be titled: The Legend, the Man >The sound track will feature such hits as: >"In the mine with ET.." (with the Grey chorus) >"Fly me in your time machine" (with Crash Landing and the Nazi's) >"J Edgar and Me" (with the Black Bags) >"I worked for IKE" (with the Secret Agent Chorus) >Any suggestions for the title of the book? :) Robert! It was my idea! The book would be entitled: That Enigmatic Corso Thing. And the chapters would be entitled 1. Who is Corso? with the subtitle Hint: He is Not Colin Bennet. 2. What is Corso? Hint: It is not Colin Bennet. Where is Corso? Hint: Dead. When is Corso? Hint: One Minute to Midnight. Why is Corso? Hint: Speculation allowed. How much is Corso? Hint: You get what you pay for. See, I've just proved that Postmoderism fails as an art form. Kelly
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 31 Secret Canadian WW II Prison For Americans? From: Keith Rowell <kerowell@attbi.com> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:32:54 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 17:12:56 -0500 Subject: Secret Canadian WW II Prison For Americans? Here's what I can recall of a recent conversion with a friend. He was watching a History Channel or TLC program about B-29 WW II bombers(?) sometime this past January and he noted a comment by one of the interviewees that there was a secret Canadian prison for people "who couldn't keep their mouths shut." A pilot or navigator was being interviewed when he made the off- hand comment that some military person on the Roswell AAF base during the war, or shortly after, kept talking about classified things, and, as a result, this person was sent away to some "Canadian prison for people who couldn't keep secrets." Does anyone here know about a secret WW II Canadian prison for Canadians and, apparently, Americans, too, and could this have anything to do with Roswell UFO secrets or, perhaps, other UFO secrets down through the years? Could the Canadians and Americans have agreed to site a prison in Canada that would securely hide away people who threaten the security of top secret compartmented "need to know" black projects? KR
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 31 Re: Corso - Peterborough From: Kelly Peterborough <kellymcg@attcanada.ca> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 14:37:53 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 17:14:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Corso - Peterborough >From: Colin Bennett <colin@bennettc25.fsnet.co.uk> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 22:52:19 -0000 >Subject: Re: Corso >>From: Kelly Peterborough kellymcg@attcanada.ca >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 11:19:45 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Corso ><snip> >>>Question - Where's Corso? >>Who is Corso? >Darling Kelly, >Please don't mention that name Corso please, or all the old >queens and ballerinas and pantomime dames and steam-footplate >scientists and 19th century Stalinist mechanicals and Maoist >village interrogators will yet once again prance and mince out >from the holes and shake their tuttus on the river banks of time >and Ufology. >Say the majic name Corso and experts will flee, gurus disappear, >hysterical women will refuse to open my post, cabals will be >formed to bully me from the List, I will be the victim of a no- >comment campaign organised by the professional ordinaries, >whispering campaign from doomed rationalists, I will be cursed >by losers, nobodies, the fragile of mind and body, the damned, >the perverted and the inspire and the suicidal. I will be sworn >at by old men looking for docoment boxes on the bottom of a dead >parrot's cage. You've proved one thing Colin! Ufology is more about people (and in your case, you) than it is about spaceships. And whether that is good or bad or a pale shade of grey know not I. Kelly
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 31 Re: Abduction Question - Velez From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 14:53:03 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 17:41:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Abduction Question - Velez >From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 07:25:00 -0500 >Subject: Re: Abduction Question >Errol >I'm in touch with an abductee who hasn't seen this info. >Because it was posted on Christmas Eve, and I believe it was in >fact the only posting you sent out that day, would you be >willing to post it again? I really think this idea has merit for >abductees. >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 05:03:27 -0500 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Subject: Re: Abduction Question ><snip> >>Abductees have only themselves, their own inner resources and >>maybe a few other individuals that they can turn to. The >>situation they face is the epitome of the phrase, "Caught >>between a rock and hard place." >>Talk about a sad state of affairs. Hi Eleanor, >Hm. You know, that story about the abductee who was >abducted along with his boat and recording GPS... You have reminded us about an important case here. When it was first made public I thought that finally, here is some rock solid physical evidence that corroborates an abduction report. It ended up being ignored and relegated to the dust heap. IF GPS data that shows a boat travelling over ground isn't enough to demonstrate that something truly odd transpired, then I don't know what is. Here, in this report, is the physical evidence that everyone has been looking for. Yet no one has made any fuss over it at all. Boggles the mind how solid evidence like this can be overlooked and forgotten. See: http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/jan/m31-001.shtml >Hm. You know, that story about the abductee who was >abducted along with his boat and recording GPS suggests >another idea. I think that your idea about abductees who claim to be 'frequent fliers' wearing these portable GPS gizmos is a good one. Especially if it is done as a part of a larger study. As for individual experiencers who may wish to purchase these devices on their own, it would be wise for them to contact someone like Dr. Mark Rodeghier at CUFOS and allow themselves to be monitored by a responsible (independent) research person. FYI for interested Listmembers: Dr. Mark Rodeghier and Mark Chesney of CUFOS have been conducting an ongoing, long-term study. The intent is to electronically _monitor_ a select group of 'abductees' over time. This is _the_ single most important 'scientific' study into the abduction phenomenon to date. I wonder if they know about these $400. GPS units? If used in conjunction with the other monitoring equipment they are already employing, the inclusion of these individual GPS devices would be an ideal way to track the individuals 24 hours-a-day. And, without adding any new demands on the individual subjects already compromised privacy. Adding the device to the ones they are already using shouldn't prove to be a problem on that level. At the end of the day it would all be about $. (Funding) Simple solution to the research money problem: I would like to take this opportunity to encourage everyone to support this CUFOS abduction study with _dollars_ by subscribing to the journal or just as a donation that can be earmarked for use by the abduction project. If you haven't already subscribed to the journal, 'now' is always a good time to do it. The people at CUFOS are doing important, necessary research that _should be_ supported in a practical way by the members of the larger *UFO community. *That's means _us_ and our dollars! If we can't 'put our money where our mouths are' then we really don't have much right to 'mouth off' in public forums. Support CUFOS with greenbacks. One more... regarding diagnostic criteria in abduction cases: Dr. Mark Rodeghier and Mark Chesney have used a set of criteria to determine which 'abduction' cases qualified for inclusion in the study. I am going to wait for their formal report on the CUFOS abduction study to be released to see if the criteria they used can be applied by all researchers when evaluating possible abduction cases. No need to reinvent the wheel (create a set of diagnostic criteria) if competent and qualified people like Dr. Mark Rodeghier and Mark Chesney have already taken the time to do it. I wish them the best of luck and I look forward to reading the results of this important inquiry. Regards, John Velez Sign the International Petition to the United Nations for disclosure of information pertaining to UFOs. http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 31 Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Goldstein From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 20:40:57 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 18:49:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Goldstein >From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 00:45:16 -0600 >Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs >>From: Wm. Michael Mott <mottimorph@earthlink.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 15:05:00 -0600 >>Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs <snip> >>You are right to some extent, of course. My main theory here is >>that there may be an planetary grid of electromagnetic energy, >>of which ley lines and such are just a subset, which facilitates >>travel for them, when close to the planet's surface. >Can you point me to scientific studies that have established the >existence of "ley lines"? >>Combine this with the extremely hostile conditions of the polar >>regions and other areas of the planet as well, and it may answer >>many questions about who they really are, as well as indicate >>that they have been here all along. >Who are "they"? >>When it comes to claims of being from Zeta Reticuli, we should >>remember that disinformation is a powerful tool. We ordinary >>human beings utilize it all the time. >Yes, and may unwittingly promote it. Hello Amy, I appreciate the clarity of your thinking. Perhaps you can help me understand something in my life that really puzzles me and may have profound implications. I also view research as fun but I adhere to the standards of my training and experience as a private detective and profesional investigator. Other than speculation I don't know of any factual evidence for "ley lines". If anyone knows of such evidence I would also like to see it. However, I reflected on my own life and have discovered empirical evidence of my "lay lines". I looked back through my diary and using aeronautical charts I found the exact geographical locations of every location where I have had sexual intimacy on this planet. I next plotted the lines between those locations and found a strange abstract pattern. Most locations are in the United States but a number are located in Vietnam and Europe. A number in the US were within the restricted areas on the aeronautical charts and several were within the prohibited flight zone near the White House. Note - these were prior to President Clinton's romps in that zone. I also have two locations where in the early nineties we camped out overlooking Area 51. We were not observed by the "cammo dudes" but may have been picked up on sensors. It may rank with the Groom Lake UFO video in popularity amongst the range personnel. A few years ago an archeologist somehow snuck through the Tikaboo valley and got away with it. Perhaps when I am back in California my girlfriend and I will attempt the same expedition but the objective will be to veer to Area S4 and make love at night in front of one of the hidden saucer entrances. Of course I will ask Bob Lazar for expert advice. For some strange reason, in making love we were always naturally drawn to being aligned north to south. I don't know what that means. As a matter of fact I don't know the meaning of anything. I just have empirical data of the locations and lines but I don't know what that strange pattern indicates. Tomorrow I will go outside and observe flies to see if they approach poop in a north - south flight plan. Looking out my window I can see that by the curb there are many fly feeding stations. Perhaps I will place some of my own poop along the curb and observe if the flies prefer human or dog waste and if there is any difference in their flight paths. This may require numerous observations in various countries and the plotting of fly flight pattern lines. Perhaps I will present the data at the Laughlin, Nevada UFO Conference next year if they will cover my expenses and pay my hefty fee for public presentations. I'll bet that lots of folks there will be eager to buy my book linking fly lines with my "lay lines". I am sure they will also purchase samples of the various fly feeding locations that were studied. In all my years in California I had no interest in attending that conference due to most of the speakers being flakes. That did not serve me because I belatedly realized that I could have made a lot of money from selling my soul, disgracing myself, and taking advantage of the naive audience. I will be in Northern California near my good friend Larry Hatch this May and after we have had enough beers (burp) and artichoke soup I will then try to compare my lovemaking locations and "lay lines" with Larry's map plots. I take all of Larry's plots of UFO sightings seriously but if Larry does not have enough beers he will not like my efforts. Listerions, don't hold your breath but it may take until the end of this year for me to issue my final report along with the statistical computations and a Jungian Psychologist's analysis of the pattern of my lay lines. It would help if other serious researchers plot their own "lay lines" and send those patterns to me. Amy, what does this mean? Sincerely :-), Josh
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 31 Re: Necessary Speculation - Tonnies From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 12:08:41 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 18:52:29 -0500 Subject: Re: Necessary Speculation - Tonnies >From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net> >To: by way of UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 10:58:14 -0500 >Subject: Re: Necessary Speculation >It's always puzzled me why "MILABs" are often lumped >in with UFO abductions in popular literature. Because supposedly people have been abducted by joint teams of apparent aliens and military personnel. One theory that might account for some of these accounts is that the witness is indeed abducted, and the "aliens" are a bit of theatre introduced to make the experience sound totally spurious to anyone who might listen. Why would the military abduct citizens? I can think of any number of reasons. Given the staggering intelligence black budget and the very real history of MK-ULTRA, it would be naive to dismiss the idea out of hand. In the "Purple Justice" case in France, Frank Fontaine was abducted by an intelligence unit and "vanished," only to appear days later thinking he had been snatched by aliens (shades of Travis Walton). Dr. Jacques Vallee's excellent book "Revelations" has the details. Needless to say, this is disturbing territory. While I think most of it is self-perpetuating myth, I think there is indeed something real going on. ===== >Mac Tonnies macbot@yahoo.com MTVI: http://www.mactonnies.com Transcelestial Ontology, Posthumanism and Theoretical Ufology Blog: http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com (updated daily)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Jan > Jan 31 Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 12:15:24 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 18:55:05 -0500 Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Hatch >From: Brad Sparks >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 21:52:16 -0500 >Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs >>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 12:26:05 -0800 >>Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs - Hatch >>>From: Brad Sparks >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 20:38:42 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: Flight-Paths Of UFOs ><snip> >>>Unfortunately I think these statistics are invalid. ><snip> >>Your concerns were well noted here long long ago. ><snip> >>If somebody says a UFO appeared in the NW and proceeded to the >>SW, I count that as due South. I have been as fussy (or more so) >>as anyone I know of in that regard. I long understood and >>(hopefully) accounted for the obvious difference between heading >>and direction of travel. >Hi Larry, >Not to knock your fine work over the years but you just cannot >assume that. You cannot assume that if the UFO was seen in the >NW and disappeared in the SW that it was on a due South heading. >The UFO could have been 1 mile away at first and was lost at 10 >miles away, in which case it would have been heading almost due >SW. There is enough imprecision (+/- 22.5 degs at least) and >witness error, as well as magnetic / true north conversion >factors, so that your NW/SW could even be E-W or W-E, etc. Hello Brad: Yes, the UFO could have gone nearly SW in the NW >SW (headings) hypothetical report. It is there that I take a good hard look between the lines. A larger concern here is that all to many people out there don't know North from "left". Some folks don't know left from right .. those are often the ones that report a UFO departed "toward Upton Snodbury" or over Klingle Farm. As for magnetic North, virtually no cases are reported in those terms. I know enough about magnetic variation to distrust that. Virtually nobody reports magnetic headings or directions anyway. Lay 6 different compasses on the counter at the sporting goods store, and each needle will point in a different direction. A magnetic compass I put in my car once was a study in chaotic motion or catastrophe theory. A good look at a good map is the best thing. Out of 17,935 *U* cases now listed (I earlier typoed in a falsely smaller number) only 29.5%, some 5296 cases report a direction of departure. This number would be higher if I did not disregard what I perceived to be bad data/or perception. Sometimes different accounts of the same event give different directions etc. I could never place too much weight on the statistics because a) these inaccuracies _and_ b) the fact that the numbers appear randomly distributed about the cardinal points of the compass. I brought up the statistics I do have, to refute the claim that the majority of UFO sightings were generally on North--South (or vice-versa) trajectories. Maybe you should address that. I chimed in only to prevent yet another baseless claim from weaving itself into the mythos surrounding and clouding the core UFO phenomena. Best wishes - Larry