UFO UpDates
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   Mar

                          UFO UpDates Mailing List
                                  Mar 2003

  Mar 1:

   Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe - Gates - Robert Gates [23]
   The Great UFO/ET Congress Of 2003 - Tom Benson [9]
   Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe - - Josh Goldstein [61]
   Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe - Gates - Robert Gates [53]
   Re: Real Blame And A Question - Bowden - Tom Bowden [27]
   Re: Warp Drive When? - Goldstein - Josh Goldstein [12]
   The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Josh Goldstein [12]
   Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe - Robert Gates [53]
   Question About Missing Time - John Velez [45]
   Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe - Connors - Wendy Connors [34]
   Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe - Gevaerd - A. J. Gevaerd -
   Revista UFO [111]
   Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe - Cunha - Pedro Luz Cunha [41]
   Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Sandow - Greg Sandow [422]
   Re: Warp Drive When? - Pope - Nick Pope [23]
   Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe - Hale - Roy Hale [39]
   Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Auchettl - John Auchettl [25]
   Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe - Connors - Wendy Connors [8]
   Re: Pioneer 10 - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [16]
   Re: Question About Missing Time - Shough - Martin Shough [57]
   Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe - Gates - Robert Gates [44]
   A Response From A 'Formidable Adversary Agency' - Larry W. Bryant [52]
   CCCRN News: New CCCRN and Crop Circle Photographs - Paul Anderson [60]
   New Era for FOIA Responsiveness at CIA? - Larry W. Bryant [17]
   Re: Question About Missing Time - Velez - John Velez [80]

  Mar 2:

   Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe - Gevaerd - A. J. Gevaerd -
   [60]
   LMH Can You Prove Your Evidence? - A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO [63]
   Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe - Gates - Robert Gates [31]
   Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe - Cunha - Pedro Luz Cunha [27]
   Re: Question About Missing Time - Ledger - Don Ledger [32]

  Mar 3:

   Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe - Cunha - Pedro Luz Cunha [31]
   Firmage [was: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe] - Will Bueche [31]
   Rev. Monroe Drew Jr. Founder Aereon Corp - Tom Benson [29]
   Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe - Denzler - Brenda Denzler
   [17]
   Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Bennett - Colin Bennett [35]
   Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Goldstein - Josh Goldstein [19]
   Philadelphia Inquirer: Mutilated Body Found - GT McCoy [5]
   Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe - Gates - Robert Gates [120]
   Stephen Bassett Cosmic Candidate - Larry W. Bryant [16]
   Kecksburg Petition CFI Press Release - 03-03-03 - Leslie Kean [105]
   Psychological Analysis - Keith Chester [72]
   Re: Another Abduction Question - Gonzalez - Luis R. Gonzalez [48]
   NARA-ing The Scope - Larry W. Bryant [51]
   Re: Question About Missing Time - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [98]
   Exeter NH's 'UFO Kid' Dead At 55 - UFO UpDates - Toronto [193]
   N.H. Case Called 'Flagship' In UFO Abduction Annals - UFO UpDates -
   Toronto [128]
   Re: Question About Missing Time - Shough - Martin Shough [43]
   Call Up - Kevin Randle [10]
   Re: he 'Beyond' Web Site - 03-03-03 - Mantle - Philip Mantle [21]
   Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Goldstein - Josh Goldstein [282]
   Sightings In Brasilia - Thiago Luiz Ticchetti [30]
   Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Oplatka - Laurel Oplatka [9]
   New Police 9-1-1/UFO Tapes Obtained - Kenny Young [19]
   Re: Call Up - Shevlin - Donald Shevlin [13]
   Re: Firmage - Connors - Wendy Connors [81]
   Re: Firmage - Stanford - Ray Stanford [34]
   Volker Spielberg E-mail Address? - Pat Robinson <Respond Via Moderator>
   [8]
   Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Clark - Jerome Clark [16]
   Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Sandow - Greg Sandow [27]
   Re: Call Up - Connors - Wendy Connors [15]
   Re: Stephen Bassett Cosmic Candidate - Hall - Richard Hall [25]

  Mar 4:

   Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Hansen - George Hansen [17]
   Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Hall - Richard Hall [25]
   Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Hall - Richard Hall [32]
   Accounting For Pennsylvania's 'Roswell' - Larry W. Bryant [30]
   Info On 'Woolhouse Case'? - Diego Cuoghi [13]
   Sightings During Conflict? [was: Call Up] - A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO
   [40]
   Re: Another Abduction Question - Denzler - Brenda Denzler [29]
   Re: Firmage - Bueche - Will Bueche [60]
   Re: Firmage - Bueche - Will Bueche [19]
   Re: Call Up - Gates - Robert Gates [15]
   Re: Firmage - Gates - Robert Gates [45]
   Re: Kecksburg Petition CFI Press Release - Velez - John Velez [28]
   Re: Question About Missing Time - Shough - Martin Shough [144]

  Mar 5:

   Re: Question About Missing Time - Shough - Martin Shough [42]
   Gabe L. Valdez Address? - Sebastien Denis [6]
   Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Denzler - Brenda Denzler [47]
   Re: Firmage - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [37]
   Re: Firmage - Connors - Wendy Connors [95]
   Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Gehrman - Ed Gehrman [13]
   Re: Firmage - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [23]
   Secrecy News -- 03/04/03 - Steven Aftergood [144]
   Review 'The Luminous Journey' - Joe McGonagle [76]
   Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Sandow - Greg Sandow [118]
   Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Sandow - Greg Sandow [53]
   Re: Question About Missing Time - Jonnaert - Thierry Jonnaert [12]
   Re: Firmage - Stanford - Ray Stanford [41]
   Linda Howe 'Dis-Invited' From UFO Conference - Royce J. Myers III - The
   Watchdog [49]
   March/April Psychology Today Article Reaction - Will Bueche [71]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 10 - John Hayes [128]
   Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Hatch - Larry Hatch [33]
   Support For GAO Probe Of Kecksburg Incident - Larry W. Bryant [39]
   Re: Exeter NH's 'UFO Kid' Dead At 55 - Bruce Maccabee [27]
   Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Oplatka - Laurel Oplatka [47]
   Re: Kecksburg Petition CFI Press Release - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [54]

  Mar 6:

   Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Hansen - George Hansen [33]
   Filer's Files #10 -- 2003 - George A. Filer [471]
   'History's Mysteries - Crop Circles' Phone Review - Loren Coleman [7]
   Loaded's Bentwaters Article - Nick Pope [20]
   Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Hall - Richard Hall [61]
   BLM Roswell Site FOIA Response - Larry W. Bryant [25]
   International Scientific & Metaphysical Symposium - Diane Harrison [99]
   Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 10 - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [47]
   Postmodernism [was: The Dark Side Of...] - Tom Bowden [38]
   Kecksburg FOIA Request To FBI - Larry W. Bryant [52]
   Aztec UFO Symposium - Wendy Connors [55]
   Re: Postmodernism - Hatch - Larry Hatch [54]
   Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Dabrowski - Andrew Dabrowski [27]
   Re: Another Abduction Question - Sparks - Brad Sparks [93]
   Re: Kecksburg Petition CFI Press Release - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [19]
   Re: Postmodernism - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [29]
   Re: Postmodernism - Ledger - Don Ledger [71]
   Re: Secrecy News -- 03/06/03 - Steven Aftergood [143]
   Re: Filer's Files #10 -- 2003 - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [38]
   Re: Aztec UFO Symposium - Hamilton - Bill Hamilton [32]

  Mar 7:

   Bush, Reagan & Life In Outer Space - UFO UpDates - Toronto [37]
   NASA/SOHO - How to Make Your Own UFO - UFO UpDates - Toronto [96]
   Northern Ireland Contacts? - Brenda Denzler [8]
   Re: Postmodernism - Jacobson - Eric Jacobson [58]
   Re: Aztec UFO Symposium - Connors - Wendy Connors [28]
   The Next 1,000 Years - Mac Tonnies [67]
   Re: Kecksburg Petition CFI Press Release - Velez - John Velez [98]
   Re: Postmodernism - Auchettl - John Auchettl [160]
   Request for Reinstatement Of Rejected FOIA Appeal - Larry W. Bryant
   [76]
   Re: An Appeal to Ufology's Senior Members - Velez - John Velez [39]
   Re: An Appeal to Ufology's Senior Members - Connors - Wendy Connors
   [27]
   Triangular Body Marks - Philip <Reply Via Moderator> [20]
   Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S - Larry Hatch [28]
   Re: George Bush, Reagan & Life In Outer Space - - John Velez [31]

  Mar 8:

   Argentina: UFO Over Rufino - Scott Corrales [19]
   Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S - John Hayes [21]
   Re: An Appeal to Ufology's Senior Members - Hall - Richard Hall [48]
   Re: Postmodernism - Dabrowski - Andrew Dabrowski [74]
   Post-Armageddonism - Richard Hall [30]
   Re: An Appeal to Ufology's Senior Members - - Josh Goldstein [43]
   Speaking Of Congressional (Non-)Intervention - Larry W. Bryant [61]
   CI: Will We Survive The Next 1,000 Years? - Mac Tonnies [104]
   Re: An Appeal to Ufology's Senior Members - Velez - John Velez [79]
   Re: Postmodernism - Denzler - Brenda Denzler [22]
   Italian UFO Newsflash No. 386 - Edoardo Russo [64]
   Re: Postmodernism - Denzler - Brenda Denzler [30]
   Re: Speaking Of Congressional (Non-)Intervention - - Steven Kaeser [38]
   Re: Argentina: UFO Over Rufino - Hall - Richard Hall [25]
   Fw: From Linda Moulton Howe on March 7, 2003 - A. J. Gevaerd - Revista
   UFO [170]
   Re: Postmodernism - Denzler - Brenda Denzler [13]
   Re: Postmodernism - Hansen - George Hansen [55]
   A. J. Gevaerd On SDI Tonight - 03-08-03 - UFO UpDates - Toronto [16]
   Re: From Linda Moulton Howe on March 7, 2003 - - A. J. Gevaerd -
   Revista UFO [27]

  Mar 9:

   Re: Postmodernism - Dabrowski - Andrew Dabrowski [55]
   FOIA Request To DOD Inspector General - Larry W. Bryant [32]
   Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S - Larry Hatch [39]
   Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S - Ed Gehrman [45]
   Re: UFOs In The Bible [was: Postmodernism - Hansen] - Jim Deardorff
   [24]
   Re: Postmodernism - Dabrowski - Andrew Dabrowski [66]
   'Ghostwatch'? - Philip Mantle [10]
   Kecksburg Wants To Know What Fell From The Sky - UFO UpDates - Toronto
   [203]

  Mar 10:

   Italian UFO Newsflash No. 387 - Edoardo Russo [104]
   UFO Sightings OZ Files 10.3.03 - Diane Harrison [209]
   'The Case for The UFO'? - Joe McGonagle [11]
   Re: Speaking Of Congressional (Non-)Intervention - - Robert Gates [50]
   Re: Postmodernism - Bennett - Colin Bennett [483]
   Re: Postmodernism - Dabrowski - Andrew Dabrowski [15]
   Re: Postmodernism - Denzler - Brenda Denzler [72]
   'And a Little Child Shall Lead Them' - Larry W. Bryant [72]
   Re: Postmodernism - Denzler - Brenda Denzler [35]
   UFOs Over Iraq In 1991? - David Thomson [11]
   Re: Postmodernism - Denzler - Brenda Denzler [14]
   Re: Speaking Of Congressional (Non-)Intervention - - Steven Kaeser [29]
   Re: Postmodernism - Connors - Wendy Connors [8]

  Mar 11:

   Re: Postmodernism - Gates - Robert Gates [25]
   Re: Post-Modernism - Oplatka - Laurel Oplatka [42]
   Re: Postmodernism - Dabrowski - Andrew Dabrowski [66]
   Re: Postmodernism - Dabrowski - Andrew Dabrowski [236]
   Re: Postmodernism - Denzler - Brenda Denzler [22]
   Forget The Little Green Men - UFO UpDates - Toronto [311]
   Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S - Bruce Maccabee
   [42]
   The Ultimate Ufology Vacation! - Chris Rutkowski [3]
   Re: Forget The Little Green Men - White - Eleanor White [21]
   Cancellation - Important - A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO [51]
   Re: Postmodernism - Shough - Martin Shough [64]
   Re: Postmodernism - Hall - Richard Hall [60]
   Re: Post-Modernism - Shough - Martin Shough [44]
   Aliens May Gain State Honors - Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas [30]
   Re: Postmodernism - Hansen - George Hansen [24]
   Re: Forget The Little Green Men - Tonnies - Mac Tonnies [47]

  Mar 12:

   Re: Postmodernism - Gehrman - Ed Gehrman [55]
   Re: Forget The Little Green Men - Hamilton - Bill Hamilton [58]
   Re: Post-Modernism - Kimball - Paul Kimball [21]
   Secrecy News -- 03/11/03 - Steven Aftergood [94]
   Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S - Colin Stevenson
   [31]
   Re: Postmodernism - Dabrowski - Andrew Dabrowski [42]
   Re: Postmodernism - McCoy - GT McCoy [38]
   Re: Postmodernism - Roberts - Andy Roberts [40]
   Happy Space Alien Day! - UFO UpDates - Toronto [31]
   Alien Life Search Inches Forward - UFO UpDates - Toronto [113]
   Re: Post-Modernism - Denzler - Brenda Denzler [21]
   Re: Postmodernism - Denzler - Brenda Denzler [43]
   Re: Postmodernism - Bowden - Tom Bowden [26]
   CI: 'Nothing in This Book Is True...' - Mac Tonnies [24]
   Re: Aliens May Gain State Honors - Stanford - Ray Stanford [12]
   Post Postmodernism - UFO UpDates - Toronto [2]
   Re: Cancellation - Important - Gates - Robert Gates [24]
   Re: Postmodernism - Clark - Jerome Clark [27]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 11 - John Hayes [327]
   03-13-97 Arizona Sightings - Tom King [19]
   03-13-97 Phoenix Media - Tom King [51]
   Re: Cancellation - Important - Gevaerd - A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO
   [38]
   Strange Light In Sky A Meteor Or Was It? - UFO UpDates - Toronto [81]
   Filer's Files #11 -- 2003 - George A. Filer [541]

  Mar 13:

   Extrasolar Atmosphere Discovered - Joe McGonagle [15]
   New Rendlesham Documentary - James Easton [8]
   Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S - Larry Hatch [48]
   Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S - John Hayes [18]
   Did Roswell Produce A Transistron Or A - John Auchettl [33]
   Secrecy News - 03/13/03 - Steven Aftergood [139]
   Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S - Colin Stevenson
   [43]
   CFI, Podesta/Mattoon & Kecksburg - John Velez [272]
   SETI@home Finds 150 Interesting Signals - UFO UpDates - Toronto [32]
   Re: CFI, Podesta/Mattoon & Kecksburg - White - Eleanor White [64]
   CFI, Podesta/Mattoon & Kecksburg - Addendum - John Velez [57]
   Re: CFI, Podesta/Mattoon & Kecksburg - Dabrowski - Andrew Dabrowski
   [31]
   Re: CFI, Podesta/Mattoon & Kecksburg - Velez - John Velez [52]
   Re: CFI, Podesta/Mattoon & Kecksburg - Velez - John Velez [67]
   Re: UFOs In The Bible - Aubeck - Chris Aubeck [38]
   Re: CFI, Podesta/Mattoon & Kecksburg - Aldrich - Jan Aldrich [75]

  Mar 14:

   UFOs & NORAD - Josh Goldstein [324]
   Vandenberg AFV Case - Josh Goldstein [521]
   Re: Did Roswell Produce A Transistron Or A - Robert Gates [56]
   Re: CFI, Podesta/Mattoon & Kecksburg - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [54]
   Re: UFOs In The Bible - Stevenson - Colin Stevenson [57]
   Another Idea Re. CFI & Kecksburg - Eleanor White [7]
   Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S - Colin Stevenson
   [45]
   Re: Exeter NH's 'UFO Kid' Dead At 55 - Cohen - Jerry Cohen [108]
   Re: CFI, Podesta/Mattoon & Kecksburg - Velez - John Velez [252]
   Open Letter To CFI & Podesta/Mattoon - John Velez [58]
   Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S - Barry Taylor [83]
   Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S - Josh Goldstein
   [36]
   Re: Open Letter To CFI & Podesta/Mattoon - Aldrich - Jan Aldrich [108]
   Re: Did Roswell Produce A Transistron Or A - Ed Gehrman [91]
   Re: Open Letter To CFI & Podesta/Mattoon - Aldrich - Jan Aldrich [108]

  Mar 15:

   Re: Open Letter To CFI & Podesta/Mattoon - Velez - John Velez [85]
   Re: Vandenberg AFV Case - Hebert - Amy Hebert [57]
   Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S - Larry Hatch [44]
   Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S - Colin Stevenson
   [40]

  Mar 16:

   Rods [was: Watching World War 2 Documentrie...] - Josh Goldstein [48]
   The WHY? Files - Additions/Updates 03-16-03 - Geoff Richardson [6]
   Potential US Navy UFO Whistle-Blowers? - Larry W. Bryant [20]

  Mar 17:

   UFO Romania - Valentin Manoliu [11]
   'Beyond' Merchandise - Philip Mantle [35]
   Thank You! - Wendy Connors [9]

  Mar 18:

   UFO Wave & Humanoid Sightings Hit Northern Chile - Eustaquio Anddrea
   Patounas [217]
   Abductions/Mack In Psychology Today - Peter Resta [6]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 12 - John Hayes [316]

  Mar 17:

   Historical Artwork & UFOs Site - Matthew Hurley [8]

  Mar 18:

   Secrecy News - 03/18/03 - Steven Aftergood [135]
   Re: Thank You! - Clark - Jerome Clark [31]
   Re: Thank You! - Woods - Mike Woods [27]
   Re: Thank You! - Connors - Wendy Connors [34]
   New Bentwaters Documentary - Nick Pope [41]
   War & UFOs - Richard Hall [30]
   UN Petition Update - John Velez [27]
   Re: Rods - McCoy - GT McCoy [19]
   Re: Thank You! - Kimball - Paul Kimball [28]
   Aztec UFO Symposium 2003 - Wendy Connors [26]

  Mar 19:

   Re: New Bentwaters Documentary - McGonagle - Joe McGonagle [81]
   Re: Thank You! - Gates - Robert Gates [102]
   Re: Thank You! - Kardol - Sharon Kardol [39]
   Re: Thank You! - Ledger - Don Ledger [51]
   'Prophet' Opens Theme Park For Our Alien Heritage - UFO UpDates -
   Toronto [59]
   Aztec UFO Crash Is Something To Look At - UFO UpDates - Toronto [117]
   Professor Questions Study, Then Others Question - UFO UpDates - Toronto
   [268]
   Exploring Space Protecting Water - UFO UpDates - Toronto [85]
   ET Hunters Take Closer Look - UFO UpDates - Toronto [79]
   Britain's Closest Encounter - Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas [23]
   FILER'S FILES #12 -- 2003 - George A. Filer [535]
   Re: Rods - Stevenson - Colin Stevenson [83]
   Re: 'Prophet' Opens Theme Park For Our Alien - Josh Goldstein [31]
   Daniken & His Ancient Astronaut Theories - Chris Evers [9]
   Re: New Bentwaters Documentary - Pope - Nick Pope [83]
   Re: New Bentwaters Documentary - Roberts - Andy Roberts [85]

  Mar 20:

   Secrecy News -- 03/20/03 - Steven Aftergood [151]
   Interior's Ig Becomes Part Of Problem - Larry W. Bryant [63]

  Mar 21:

   Re: 'Prophet' Opens Theme Park For Our Alien - Jim Deardorff [27]
   A Question About Columbia's 'Mystery Object' - Chaz Stuart [24]
   Re: New Bentwaters Documentary - Stevenson - Colin Stevenson [57]
   Re: UN Petition Update - Stevenson - Colin Stevenson [42]
   "Aztec UFO Crash A Scam" - UFO UpDates - Toronto [86]
   Milky Way Calling - UFO UpDates - Toronto [50]
   'UFOs Are Saddam's Secret!' - UFO UpDates - Toronto [39]
   Identify UFO Hoaxes - From Real Alien Spacecraft! - UFO UpDates -
   Toronto [62]
   Brazil's EBE-ET Address Change - Thiago Luiz Ticchetti [12]
   Re: New Bentwaters Documentary - Pope - Nick Pope [31]
   Re: UN Petition Update - Hayes - John Hayes [29]
   Re: UFO UpDate: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 12 - - Bruce Maccabee [98]

  Mar 22:

   FOIA Request To Industrial College Armed Forces - Larry W. Bryant [84]
   Re: 'Prophet' Opens Theme Park For Our Alien - Josh Goldstein [69]
   Re: 'Prophet' Opens Theme Park For Our Alien - GT McCoy [43]
   UFO Site Infects Computer? - Larry Hatch [24]
   Re: 'Prophet' Opens Theme Park For Our Alien - Jim Deardorff [61]
   Re: 'Prophet' Opens Theme Park For Our Alien - Tom Bowden [59]
   Re: UFOs In Ancient Art - Cuoghi - Diego Cuoghi [18]
   A FOIA Response From The FBI - Larry W. Bryant [20]

  Mar 23:

   Re: UFO Site Infects Computer? - Hayes - John Hayes [38]
   'The Complete Guide To Mysterious Beings' - Mac Tonnies [31]

  Mar 24:

   Blow the Whistle on "Hostile Aerial Craft" - Larry W. Bryant [19]

  Mar 23:

   Re: New Bentwaters Documentary - McGonagle - Joe McGonagle [78]

  Mar 24:

   Chile: UFO over Providencia - Scott Corrales [22]
   2003 Aztec UFO Symposium Report - Wendy Connors [151]
   Re: UFO Site Infects Computer? - Hatch - Larry Hatch [65]
   Whether It's A Landing Site Or Not... - UFO UpDates - Toronto [97]
   Andropov Of KGB Had Interest In UFOs - UFO UpDates - Toronto [43]
   Selling Space-Alien Fiction As Truth - UFO UpDates - Toronto [157]
   CCCRN News: Crop Circle Report Archives Changes - Paul Anderson [61]

  Mar 25:

   Italian UFO Newsflash No. 388 - Edoardo Russo [111]
   Unusual Circular Cloud In Space Station Photo - David Thomson [7]
   UFO 'Clone' Baby: First Pictures - UFO UpDates - Toronto [53]
   UFO Could Have Been Electrocuted Cat - UFO UpDates - Toronto [16]
   FOIA Request To U.S. Embassy Canberra Australia - Larry W. Bryant [65]
   Re: Unusual Circular Cloud In Space Station Photo - Ray Stanford [15]
   Re: Unusual Circular Cloud In Space Station Photo - Ray Stanford [9]
   Re: UFO Could Have Been Electrocuted Cat - Velez - John Velez [17]

  Mar 26:

   Re: Unusual Circular Cloud In Space Station Photo - Don Ledger [38]
   Re: UFO 'Clone' Baby: First Pictures - McCoy - GT McCoy [10]
   Re: UFO Could Have Been Electrocuted Cat - Young - Kenny Young [20]
   Re: Unusual Circular Cloud In Space Station Photo - John Hayes [27]
   CI: Unofficial Mission Patch - Mac Tonnies [16]
   Gulf Breeze Pictures - Ben Holland <removed> [9]
   Re: Historical Artwork & UFOs Site - Cuoghi - Diego Cuoghi [12]
   Filer's Files #13 -- 2003 - George A. Filer [526]
   Re: Unusual Circular Cloud In Space Station Photo - David Thomson [21]
   Re: UFO Could Have Been Electrocuted Cat - Ledger - Don Ledger [27]

  Mar 27:

   Re: Gulf Breeze Pictures - Steven Kaeser [21]
   Secrecy News -- 03/26/03 - Steven Aftergood [148]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 13 - John Hayes [257]
   Rutherglen UFO Mystery - UFO UpDates - Toronto [63]
   How Can Humanity Decode Alien Transmissions? - UFO UpDates - Toronto
   [110]
   Budd Hopkins' NYC UFO Seminar Announcement - 04-03 - Ifinfo1@aol.com
   [49]
   Re: UFO Could Have Been Electrocuted Cat - Gates - Robert Gates [20]
   Re: Gulf Breeze Pictures - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [129]

  Mar 28:

   To Mars By A-Bomb - Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas [35]
   Control of Iraq's 'ET Heritage' - Colin Stevenson [81]
   Shell Games Inside Roswell's UFO Henhouse? - Larry W. Bryant [102]
   Meteor Showers Rocks On Midwestern Homes - Chaz Stuart [54]
   Big UFO conference In Brazil - A. J. Gevaerd [12]
   Raelians Want Hotel In Brazil to Clone Babies - Gildas Bourdais [28]
   Secrecy News -- 03/28/03 - Steven Aftergood [172]
   Re: Meteor Showers Rocks On Midwestern Homes - - Nick Balaskas [27]
   NIDS Hiring Additional Scientist-Deputy - Colm Kelleher [18]
   A Canadian Opportunity - Larry W. Bryant [25]
   Re: Gulf Breeze Pictures - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [50]
   Re: How Can Humanity Decode Alien Transmissions? - - David Jordt [40]
   Re: To Mars By A-Bomb - Ledger - Don Ledger [25]

  Mar 29:

   SETI Draws A Blank - UFO UpDates - Toronto [47]
   Re: Gulf Breeze Pictures - Bueche - Will Bueche [51]
   Re: To Mars By A-Bomb - Heath - Gord Heath [34]
   Re: To Mars By A-Bomb - McCoy - GT McCoy [38]
   Re: How Can Humanity Decode Alien Transmissions? - - Larry Hatch [102]
   Brazil: The Most Amazing Hoax Of All - A. J. Gevaerd [65]
   Scientists Finally Admit Mars Has Water + Life - UFO UpDates - Toronto
   [136]
   Re: Brazil: The Most Amazing Hoax Of All - Hatch - Larry Hatch [45]
   Re: Rutherglen UFO Mystery - Hebert - Amy Hebert [36]
   Ray Stanford On SDI Tonight - Strange Days... Indeed [36]
   Whither The FOIA's Corpus And Spirit? - Larry W. Bryant [50]
   Re: How Can Humanity Decode Alien Transmissions? - - Joachim Koch [54]
   Re: Gulf Breeze Pictures - Gates - Robert Gates [42]
   Re: Brazil: The Most Amazing Hoax Of All - Burns - Chris Burns [18]
   Re: To Mars By A-Bomb - Friedman - Stan Friedman [62]

  Mar 30:

   Re: Brazil: The Most Amazing Hoax Of All - - Colin Stevenson [60]
   Re: To Mars By A-Bomb - McCoy - GT McCoy [44]
   Re: Gulf Breeze Pictures - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [56]
   Magonia Supplement 46 - John Rimmer [58]
   Don Johnson's UFO-Wave Prediction - Richard Hall [14]

  Mar 31:

   Re: Brazil: The Most Amazing Hoax Of All - Gevaerd - A. J. Gevaerd [40]
   Media Alert 'SCI FI Declassified' - Larry Landsman [11]
   Argentina: New Mutilations in Rio Cuarto - Scott Corrales [19]
   Re: Magonia Supplement 46 - Clark - Jerome Clark [23]

   The number enclosed in brackets is the number of lines of new text in





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              Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe - Gates

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 20:22:22 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 00:15:37 -0500
Subject: Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe - Gates


 >From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
 >To: UFO Updates <UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 08:40:02 -0700
 >Subject: Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe

 >People on this List actually continue to take Linda Moulton
 >Howe's research seriously?

 >Unbelievable.

 >She aligned herself with Art Bell and that, in itself, makes her
 >research suspect.

 >Look. She did a good job once with the Mute situation. It's been
 >downhill for her on the slide of sensationalism and yellow
 >journalism. That happens to one-hit wonders.

Wendy, listers,

Assuming that the hoax reports out of Brazil are true (and I
have seen no evidence to suggest otherwise) we need to keep in
mind that many so called mainstream respectable UFO researchers
have been victimized by a hoax.  For example Hynek had the
Jarslow photos; Randle had Kaufman; Stan had Gerald Anderson,
abduction researchers have had a few phonys just to name a few.

I would assume that if all of this is verified, Linda would
publish a full retraction on the story.


Cheers,

Robert








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   Mar > Mar 1

                      The Great UFO/ET Congress Of 2003

From: Tom Benson <sparkle@earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 21:18:20 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 00:17:32 -0500
Subject: The Great UFO/ET Congress Of 2003


Dear List:

The The Great UFO/ET Congress Of 2003 will be held on April 5 &
6, 2003 at The Days Inn, near Bordentown, New Jersey. Confirmed
speakers are Rick Hilberg, Anthony & Lynn Volpe, Eugenia Macer-
  Story, Pierre Bolduc, Stanton Friedman.Robert VanDerClock,
Graham Bethune, Rich Dolan, and Paul Bartholomew.

For more information such as biographies, directions times,
hotels/motels, etc. see our website at: www.drufo.org


Tom Benson








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                 Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe -

From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 03:34:19 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 00:20:34 -0500
Subject: Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe -


 >From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
 >To: UFO Updates <UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 08:40:02 -0700
 >Subject: Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe

 >People on this List actually continue to take Linda Moulton
 >Howe's research seriously?

 >Unbelievable.

 >She aligned herself with Art Bell and that, in itself, makes her
 >research suspect.

 >Look. She did a good job once with the Mute situation. It's been
 >downhill for her on the slide of sensationalism and yellow
 >journalism. That happens to one-hit wonders.

 >Get the stars out of your eyes. Wake up!


Well said Wendy,

So Said Mon-Ka, and I, Josh, heartily affirm.

I guess it was back in the 70s when I first got into LMH
reporting on cattle mutes. That was when Mon-Ka first appeared
to me and inducted me into the Cult of the Dead Cow.

In the early 80s she met with the one of a kind Richard Doty of
the AFOSI in New Mexico. Sometime in the 80s when she, I, and
maybe you got caught up with UFOs in Manzano Nuke Weapons
Storage area, Paul Bennewitz, Dulce Canyon, Christa Tilton,
Richard Doty, and the rest of AFOSI in those exciting times.

At some point back then I realized that LMH let herself be
suckered by the AFOSI, had lost objectivity, had been fed
disinformation through bogus documents produced by AFOSI, and I
lost faith with her searching for truth. Unfortunately I saw
that lack of objectivity remain over the years.

I am glad that our American friends on the Southern Continent
are busting that apparant swindler, whose black magical name I
can't remember at the moment. In honor of how low I think he and
others of his ilk represent the bottom of the barrel I'll give
him the nickname of Uranus - not of the planet but the literal
interpretation of Uranus, the same for Art Bell, Sean Morton,
Steven Greer, and many others who play on the gullibility of
people. I'm glad the police finally caught up with that conman
and I hope he has not stashed his ill gotten gains in some
secreted manner that will prevent the recovery and return of the
stolen money.

I have no idea why LMH spent the money, went to the trouble of
her trip, never talked with the right people, got on the wrong
track, and came back to the USA without a clue to the reality of
this man named Uranus. Now he may finally be finished and we are
all better off for it.

To conclude I'd like to say that on both BBC and CNN today I
have seen the video of the crew of Columbia in some of their
final moments before disintegration and I have mixed feelings.
CNN said they played the video to the families before
broadcasting. I wonder how the families really felt about it
being shown to the world. I have mixed feelings when that is
done. It is fascinating but morbid to look into the faces of
people who are dead just before they died, especially shortly
after they did die. Maybe I am sensitive because I was in
Vietnam and learned to see that in person.

There's also a part of me that thinks broadcasting something of
that nature somehow dishonors the privacy of those who did die
and their families. Who knows for how many years that video clip
may surprise the families when they are channel surfing and come
across it? I'm just not sure about this.

Off to wander the wild blue yonder,


Josh









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              Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe - Gates

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 22:22:47 EST
Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 00:26:49 -0500
Subject: Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe - Gates


Hi Listers,

I sent a copy of my response to Wendy to Linda Howe. Where it
was addressed to myself, Wendy and "your email list" actually
ebk's.... so I figured it was all right to pass it on.

This is what I received back my comments are below it:

-----

Feb. 28, 2003

Hi, Wendy, Robert, and your E-Mail List:

Why are you assuming that the hoax statements pushed in e-mails
by A. J. Gevaerd and company are true? What kind of people
attack honest efforts to objectively collect physical evidence
for analysis - even before analysis has been done?

The phenomena of lights and aerial craft have been reported on
the farms around the Corghinho area for decades, long before
Urandir Oliveira purchased farm land. There are many credible
eyewitnesses to phenomena in the Corghinho farms, hills and
mesa, including the Attorney General of the State of Rio de
Janeiro and his wife who encountered an 18-meter diameter craft
on the night of January 4 to 5, 2003, in the hill above
Oliveira's farm.

My goal in Brazil was to collect physical evidence and get it
into American labs for analysis to find out what the science
would show. Already, the preliminary examination of the sheet
containing the body imprint shows remarkable changes now being
studied by a biophysicst and analytical chemist.

I will be reporting more on COAST TO COAST AM tonight, Dreamland
Online tomorrow and Earthfiles.com.

Sincerely,

--
Linda Moulton Howe
Reporter and Editor
Earthfiles.com,
and News Contributor,
Premiere Radio Networks
and Dreamland Online

P. O. Box 300
Jamison, PA 18929-0300

Fax: 215-491-9842

-----

Dear Listers,

It is reasonable to assume that because Linda is taking the
story public that she has checked out all the information and is
aware of what is going in down there, especially the story being
told that some of the footage she allegedy is using was faked...
not by Linda, i.e. a hoax foisted off on her.

Before anybody jumps in and claims that can't be done, remember
the major figures in Ufology who have been stroked by hoaxes and
mis information... such as Hoagland (ET going to land on a
Mountain top in Arizona in Dec of 2000) Kaufman (made up
military record and story) Anderson (apparently fake military
record and other problems) not to mention other major and minor
figures. Anybody who claims that they absolutly can't be taken
in by one of these type things is a fool... a gulliable one at
that.


Cheers,

Robert








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   Mar > Mar 1

                   Re: Real Blame And A Question - Bowden

From: Tom Bowden <tomrbowden@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 19:31:18 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 00:28:25 -0500
Subject: Re: Real Blame And A Question - Bowden


 >From: Vince White <Vinceomni@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 11:55:22 EST
 >Subject: Re: Real Blame And A Question

 >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 23:40:03 +0000
 >>Subject: Re: Real Blame And A Question

<snip>

 >What is confusing and hubristic in asserting it will
 >take someone with unusual courage and political
 >capital to take the risk to initiate hearings?
 >Does the word leadership have no meaning? Isn't it
 >through leadership that someone will finally
 >say, in an open forum, the taboo phrase; "UFO
 >coverup"?

<snip>


Vince,

I think you answered your own question. When I look at who we
have in Congress these days, leadership is a sorely lacking
quality.

Meanwhile, our fealess leader Dubya, is trying to lead us into a
war no one really wants, while he is secretly following some
hidden agenda espoused by Karl Rove and other movers and shakers
of the Southern Republican old-boys network.

What a mess!


Tom B.








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                      Re: Warp Drive When? - Goldstein

From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 05:01:50 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 00:31:27 -0500
Subject: Re: Warp Drive When? - Goldstein


Howdy fellow Listerians,

For those who have an interest in breakthrough propulsion please
take a look in this link titled Warp Drive When? You will notice
that when you clink on the link to the website of NASA's
Breakthrough Propulsion Physics Project the home page has large
red letters telling you that NASA has zero budget for this
project anymore.

This link will open right into an extensive look at this area
from the mind of the former head of the NASA project.

http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/PAO/warp.htm


Have a good ride,

Josh











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   Mar > Mar 1

                       The Dark Side Of Postmodernism

From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 05:53:39 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 00:34:35 -0500
Subject: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism


Since one person has thrust onto UFO UpDates his postmodernist
and cutural relativistic interpretation of Ufology I decided to
provide something that illustrates the dark side of that
philosophy..... It will give you some more perspective and you
can decide for yourself whether you think this philosophy should
be important for UFO investigation. It is a long way from
serious investigation of serious matters to sitting around and
forming a philosophy based on fictional literature with which to
trash factual rational inquiry and critical thinking.


Come take a look,

http://home.earthlink.net/~lrgoldner/yockey.html

Josh









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                  Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 00:27:39 EST
Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 00:43:00 -0500
Subject: Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe


Listers,

We discuss this topic from time to time and it is worth
commenting upon. In the field of Ufology we have many people of
many strips putting out what I would consider excellent research
on various UFO related topics.

The first name that comes to mind is Dick Hall and UFO evidence
2. Don Berliner and Bruce Macabee follow that and all the
excellent work they have done over the years. Jerry Clark's
various books and encylopedias on the subject. Kevin Randle's
many books dealing with Roswell and other aspects of the topic.
You have Stan Friedman's (pioneer Roswell investigator) who has
investigated and written a number of books and monographs over
the years. You have Linda Howe who has also done much
investigation and written many books. You have Wendy Connors and
the historical research she is doing to name but a few out
there.

Many of these folks disagree with other researchers about the
validity of a presented theory(s)/data. For example Stan and
Kevin disagree over MJ-12 and Roswell witnesses. Some folks
disagree with Bruce over Gulf Breeze. You have Peter Gersten who
attempted to extract information out of the government through
the legal system. The effort was tremendous and worth a
try... something very few if any on this list have made the
effort to do. You have Larry Bryant at the DC office of CAUS
also doing an admirable job on the legal side of things.

Some folks in Ufology prefer that current cases are investigated
(something which Linda is doing even though a person may
disagree with her) rather then spending endless hours pouring
through old material.

Others in Ufology feel that there nich is in pouring through
old material so that the material is available to others.

Some have written books. Typically book writers don't make a
great deal of money unless your a Grisham, Clancy or Coyle but
they do make a little bit. Who makes the money on the books are
the book publishers.

As to paying for access to research, I look at my subscription
to the MUFON journal, subscription to IUR, not to mention buying
various UFO books over the years. Some of the research is free,
i.e. Bruce Macabee's web site, other research is not.

The point is that paying for access Linda Howe's site is no
different then subscribing to the your favorite UFO publication.
Naturally, like Linda's web site, you may not always agree with
the articles the editor runs, the conclusions reached, what the
authors said or the material that is presented.

The bottom line is Ufology has many bright and talented people
who contribute much to the field, some get some money, others
provide it for free and we should be grateful for the time and
effort they put forth whether they are paid or not. Ufology also
has its share of crack pots and cranks (the name Cooper suddenly
comes to mind :) ) that we all know about. We should be faithful
in exposing them and their tales.


Cheers,

Robert







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                         Question About Missing Time

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 02:06:32 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 08:24:27 -0500
Subject: Question About Missing Time


Hello All,

I had always associated the term 'missing time' with the memory
blackouts that heavy-drinking alcoholics or drug addicts often
report. What has happened to me and to many others is 'something
else' however. The 'missing time' that I refer to is not
related/correlated, to a state of intoxication.

What started me thinking about this was an old video interview
with a British police officer (Alan Godfrey) who reported being
abducted while on duty. He was driving in his patrol car when he
encountered a 'UFO' in the middle of the road. He reports that
as he was observing the object he grabbed a pad and began to
make a pencil sketch. He says that at one point he looked down
at the pad and suddenly, without any sensation of time having
passed, found himself driving along a stretch of road that was
past the point he had encountered the UFO. He hit the brakes and
looked around but the UFO was nowhere to be seen.

In the late 70's while walking home from a friends house I
encountered a UFO (in uncomfortably close proximity to me) and
after a few seconds of observation, I started to run like hell
away from it. When I got about 15 feet from my front door
(again) without _any_ sense of time having passed, I found
myself sitting bolt upright in my bed and the room flooded with
morning light.

One second it's night-time and I'm running for dear life
(half-out of my wits with fear) and the very next second (no
gaps) I'm sitting up in bed and it's morning. Hours of 'missing
time.'

This kind of 'missing time', the kind that I experienced and
that Godfrey and many others have reported, is entirely
different from the 'missing time' that most of us are familiar
with. (The 'alcoholic blackout' kind.)

Does anybody know if the UFO/abduction kind of missing time has
ever been reported under 'other' circumstances? According to my
own admittedly limited knowledge, other than in abduction
reports, I have never before heard of 'this kind' of missing
time.

I honestly think that the phenomena of missing time as I
described it above is unique to UFO abduction reports. Does
anyone have information to the contrary? I'm curious if the kind
of missing time I'm talking about _is_ in fact, unique to
abduction reports.

Thank you in advance for any info/insight you may be able to
provide.


Regards to all,

John Velez








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             Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe - Connors

From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 04:07:52 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 08:33:53 -0500
Subject: Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe - Connors


 >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates <UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 00:27:39 EST
 >Subject: Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe

<Snip>

Robert, I'd almost have a tendency to believe your fervent rash
of posts regarding this thread is suspect. You getting some
kind of kickback from the $26 website charge of LMH, or
something?

Look, Linda Moulton-Howe has the right to fleece anyone she
wants and to be a schlocky researcher. It's a free country.
People have the right to saddle up to pay their money to enter
her website, get fleeced and beg for more. It's a free country.
She has the right to make money from ufological endeavors, even
though it damages the honest efforts of others to bring
legitimacy and respect for Ufology.

All I'm saying is that over time, people who can think, have
come to the conclusion that her research is mostly yellow style
journalism and done solely with a profit motive in mind. It is
applied explicitedly for sensationalistic value and to garner a
crowd.

But, bottom lines are thus: Linda Moulton-Howe is not, in any
respect, a ufological researcher with credibility. She uses
Ufology for her own gain at the expense of really wanting the
knowledge and truth behind the phenomena. That's what separates
the Richard Hall's from the Linda Moulton-Howe's of the world.

I have nothing personal against Linda Moulton-Howe, Robert. She
has the right to be a sleazy, sensationalist. Just don't try to
legitimize her as a credible and respected Ufologist. To
thinking people and people who spend their money to make Ufology
credible, that's really pushing it.

She ranks right up there with Joe Firmage... one hit wonders in
the field of Ufology who take and don't give anything back.


Wendy Connors








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             Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe - Gevaerd

From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 07:55:53 -0300
Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 08:50:48 -0500
Subject: Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe - Gevaerd


 >From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 16:29:19 -0700
 >Subject: Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe

 >>From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com>
 >>To: UFO Updates <UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 12:44:50 -0600
 >>Subject: Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe - Hebert


 >Hi Amy,

 >Thank you for your courage to join in to voice displeasure over
 >people who take advantage of a serious area of study to
 >bastardize it in the name of self glory and pursuit of the
 >almight dollar.

 >There is absolutely nothing wrong in making a living doing
 >ufological work. It's is the manner in which you do so that is
 >always open to question and corruption. Linda Moulton-Howe
 >certainly has the right to charge the fools who would pay her
 >for questionable research, but when you do that, your reputation
 >suffers. And hers, among intelligent people in this area of
 >research, is so tarnished now that a tanker of Tarn-X wouldn't
 >work. <G>

 >I am certainly not jealous of her making money, but I am
 >dumbfounded that people will pay top dollar for absolute junk
 >from her, gush all over her as a UFO expert (she certainly
 >isn't) and yet legitimate researchers can't get people to
 >support their work by buying their books, monographs, etc.
 >Richard Hall's case is a case in point. His book, UFO Evidence
 >II is high priced, but is worth 100 times what the asking price
 >is ($53), yet so-called researchers on this list wouldn't buy it
 >because it cost too much. Yet, they'll plunk down $40 for a
 >book, $29.95 for a video or $26 to get on the website to get
 >questionable research by Linda Moulton-Howe.

 >Let's face it. The dog and pony show in Ufology always draws the
 >crowd and most people are dumb as a bag of hammers, but think
 >they are brilliant. It is the way of things in the human
 >condition. Linda Moulton-Howe is content to fleece the flock and
 >that is her right.

Dear Wendy and Listers:

Your message to UFO UpDates should be read by any responsible
UFO researcher, as it is clear and sharp about recurrent
problems in Ufology. Specially the issue of making a living out
of this field. I, like you, don't see any problem in that, as I
do myself for 20 years being the editor of national-wide
circulation magazine. And I definitely agree with you that it is
the way you make that living - or any other living from any
other field - that makes the difference.

Wendy, allow me to write a few lines about myself, since your
position in UFO UpDates had me no longer feeling lonely thinking
the way I think. I am a 40 year-old guy, divorced and re-
  married. I have a son and a daughter. I started my research in
Ufology when I was 11 or 12, and since then I've never stopped.
When I was 14, my passion for the subject was so intense that I
was conducting regular field investigations (I've done about
1,200 so far) and presenting my first lectures at schools. When
I was 17 I was invited to present my first lecture at a national
congress, and I never stopped (I've done over 700 so far).

When I was 21 and already had my son, very hardly I launched the
Brazilian UFO magazine, which stands still so far thanks to an
enormous effort. My dream always was to have an occupation that
could provide for me and my small family from Ufology, honest
and seriously. By that time I was a school teacher of Chemistry
and English, areas that I entirely learned by myself, without
going to classes, and which helped me a lot to substantiate my
UFO researchers. The UFO Magazine became a reality in 1985 and
since then I have published about 190 editions, of an average of
35,000 each. My magazine, which was bankrupt twice, is now far
and away the longest-living in the planet, and the almost 6.6
million copies that I printed so far speak for themselves.

It was Wendelle C. Stevens who opened a big door for me to
foreign countries when he first invited my to present a lecture
at a Tucson congress, back in 1991. It was there that I first
met Linda Howe. Since then, I started lecturing all over the
world, as per lots of invitations that I will always the
thankful for. I've been investigating cases and making contacts
with UFO researchers in 39 countries so far and lectured in 29,
and in some of them a dozen times. I still keep that activity,
but to a much lesser degree. And I never, ever charged my
lectures. Not even a cent. When my friends in Brazil say "A. J.
you should charge for putting up all this info together", I
always respond that lecturing and showing what was going on in
Brazilian UFO scenario was a commitment, not a way of living. My
living was from the magazine, which was fed with info from my
trips and lectures.

Well, having said all that, I think that some people here at UFO
UpDates probably will understand better my vigorous debate and
relentless exposition of the Brazilian hoaxer that Linda Moulton
Howe so enthusiastically supports. It is for me and most of my
Brazilian colleagues outrageous and shameful that she could not
only support but also promote, in the USA, a person like him,
whose life we all know so well and whose scam has been so many
times exposed.

With determination and persistence I have devoted my life to
Ufology, suffering the consequences of it. Anyone who knows a
little about the editing magazines (ask Graham Birdsall, ask
Vicki and Don Ecker) knows how hard it is to have the word
spread. Now, bear in mind Brazil and you will have to apply the
difficulties to the 10th power. The odds against are really hard
and hurting, and if you don't have really solid persistence and
perseverance, forget about it.

Besides these odds and obstacles, I am glad that I have always
had a very strong support from the Brazilian UFO community and a
solid response from my readers. Unlike many other countries that
I visited, in Brazil the UFO community is almost 95% amalgamated
and united. We speak the same language and defend the seek
goals. So, it is a complete shame that we see great parts of our
efforts discarded in this situation. Linda has not only
disappointed us but has done so consciously, as she probably
knows what she is doing, causing severe damage to Ufology.


A. J. Gevaerd

You and I have too much in common as to the way Ufology is
treated and used by smart guys.







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   Mar > Mar 1

              Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe - Cunha

From: Pedro Luz Cunha <pplcunha@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 09:22:25 -0300 (ART)
Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 09:14:27 -0500
Subject: Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe - Cunha


 >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 20:22:22 -0500
 >Subject: Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe

 >>From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
 >>To: UFO Updates <UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 08:40:02 -0700
 >>Subject: Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe

 >>People on this List actually continue to take Linda
 >>Moulton Howe's research seriously?

 >>Unbelievable.

 >>She aligned herself with Art Bell and that, in itself, makes
 >>her research suspect.

 >>Look. She did a good job once with the Mute situation. It's been
 >>downhill for her on the slide of sensationalism and yellow
 >>journalism. That happens to one-hit wonders.

 >Assuming that the hoax reports out of Brazil are true (and I
 >have seen no evidence to suggest otherwise) we need to keep in
 >mind that many so called mainstream respectable UFO researchers
 >have been victimized by a hoax. For example Hynek had the
 >Jarslow photos; Randle had Kaufman; Stan had Gerald Anderson,
 >abduction researchers have had a few phonys just to name a few.

 >I would assume that if all of this is verified, Linda would
 >publish a full retraction on the story.


Mr Gates,

It seems to me that there will be no way to convince you of what
the Brazilian Ufologists have come up with, here on UFO UpDates.

But I hope and expect that you can always take a Portuguese
language course, buy an airplane ticket, and come down to Brazil
to interview people and get your own data on the Corguinho case.
And also interview lawyers and judges, police offices, about Mr.
'Phony guy'.

Lots of good researchers were, as you say, fooled by some fake
case in ufology. That's correct, I think we all agree. But
insisting that the mistake is not a mistake is something else.
Let 'Heavens Gate' and other sects speak for themselves.

I do hope that Ms. Linda gets back to her good work as she used
to do in the past. Again, I think Mr. Jerry Black has a good
point about her work. So does Gevaerd now.


Salutations,

Pedro Cunha







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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Mar > Mar 1

                 Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Sandow

From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com>
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 09:05:07 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 09:16:56 -0500
Subject: Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Sandow


 >From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 05:53:39 +0100
 >Subject: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism

 >Since one person has thrust onto UFO UpDates his postmodernist
 >and cutural relativistic interpretation of Ufology I decided to
 >provide something that illustrates the dark side of that
 >philosophy.....

I wouldn't go this far. I don't see much relationship between
postmodernism and fascism.

One basic thing needs to be said, though. Colin Bennett is a terrible
postmodernist, a really bad example of the breed. I've known a few of
the leading postmodern scholars in music. One of them is a long-time
friend. In addition, I've read a fair amount of postmodern thinking in
other fields (which in any case you can hardly avoid if you read any
great amount of current scholarship). What Colin writes -- judged by the
standards of serious postmodern work -- is simply a joke. The
postmodernists I know would laugh long and hard at him. They don't
reject factual accuracy, or critical thinking. In fact, they found their
work on a careful foundation of fact. See, for instance, any of the
music writing of Susan McClary, or the historical and cultural essays of
Edward Said. Susan is chairman of the music department at UCLA, Said is
a professor at Columbia University. Just in case Colin (probably without
reading them) wants to denounce these people as academic fogeys, I'll
add that Susan was unemployable for years because her ideas were
considered too radical, and Said -- one of the leading advocates of the
Palestinian cause in America -- is sometimes attacked as a dangerous
leftist. Both, however, are impeccable in their scholarship.

One problem with Colin's ravings here ought to be quite obvious (besides
the fact that they don't make any sense). He's likely to write things
like "postmodernism says...." Well, postmodernism doesn't say anything.
Postmodernists say things, and, like all human beings in any area of
thought, they disagree with each other. Postmodernism isn't a church,
with an orthodox line of belief that Colin is empowered to set forth to
us. Anything he writes is strictly his own nonsense, without much
relevance to the main body of postmodern thought.

I've appended a representative example of postmodern scholarship -- an
essay on animals, which was published in January here in America, in the
Chronicle of Higher Education. I don't say this is the greatest or most
important thing ever published, but it's not at all bad. And, most
important, it shows that serious postmodernism isn't much like the
pop-eyed madness Colin inflicts on us here.

Greg Sandow

***

How People and Animals Coexist
By RANDY MALAMUD

When Dudley Dursley stops at the zoo's snake display in the film
Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone, he angrily demands that
the sad creature entertain him. "Move!" he yells, rapping on the
glass. When the boa constrictor fails to perform, Dudley turns
away disgusted. His cousin, Harry, strikes up a conversation
with the animal: "Sorry about him. He doesn't understand what
it's like, lying there day after day, watching people press
their ugly faces in on you."

Harry and the snake develop a sympathetic connection, each
recognizing the other as a special being whose powers are
unappreciated. Harry works some unconscious wizardry, and in an
instant the glass disappears and the snake (whispering a quick
"thanks" to Harry) slithers off to freedom, while the hapless
Dudley falls into the enclosure, replacing the snake.

My sons, raised with polemical fervor about where animals belong
and where they don't, responded exuberantly to that scene as a
vindication of our family ethos. But, I'm afraid, few others in
the audience got the radical implications. Even had they
appreciated the snake's unhappiness in the zoo, they may not
have tapped into the larger injustices. Did audiences reflect
upon the miseries of all the other animals that remain
imprisoned? Or the exploitative dynamics of spectatorship? Did
people confront the tensions between empathy and otherness?

Our culture manifests a tremendous consciousness of animals, for
good and for bad. The $30-billion-per-year American pet industry
may testify to people's closeness with companion animals, or it
may indicate the commodification of our furry friends. The
fashion fad of animal-print clothing may signify an appreciative
sense of connection with zebras and leopards, or a cheap,
irreverent appropriation of their biological beauty. Zoos are
becoming much better, we are told (usually by zookeepers), but
what exactly does that mean: more reflective of our ecological
interconnectedness with animals and more responsive to
complaints about mistreated animals? Or just more adept at
deflecting criticism by providing greener venues, where animals
are just as exiled as ever from their natural habitats but
people feel less guilty about the spectacle? Animal movies
proliferate: Free Willy, Babe, Stuart Little, The Horse
Whisperer, A Bug's Life -- but do those indicate interest in
seeing animals in any intellectually meaningful way, or are we
simply coopting them into infotainment?

These are some of the questions asked by a growing number of
scholars today. Along with other ecologically concerned
citizens, scholars are trying to articulate the place that
animals occupy in our world -- or, less anthropocentrically, how
human and nonhuman animals share this world. This work involves
deconstructing the divisions and prejudices that separate people
from animals, going all the way back to the Great Chain of Being
in Aristotle's scala naturae and the proclamation of human
mastery over animals in Genesis. Much of the most exciting
current research comes out of the humanities and social sciences
rather than the natural sciences. While this work is informed by
the scientific study of animals, it seeks to add perspectives
from sociology, cultural studies, literature, philosophy,
history, art history, and the history of science (as well as
interdisciplinary fusions of those fields).

Anthrozoology (the study of human-animal relations) examines
what our associations with animals illustrate about us. Some of
the more activist literature even asks, How can we atone for
what we have done? Until fairly recently, the status of animals
in scholarly work was comparable to that of women before
feminism: regarded by the dominant group as inherently
subordinate and defined by the dominant group in generic and
reductive terms. As with feminist scholarship, social movements
outside academe have inspired anthrozoology, whether or not a
given piece of work explicitly integrates a political
sensibility from the animal-rights movement.

In the 1970s and 1980s, foundational work in this field came
from John Berger (whose 1977 essay "Why Look at Animals?" is
still, I think, one of the most unsettling and insightful
considerations of human-animal relations), Carol J. Adams, Jim
Mason, Tom Regan, Harriet Ritvo, Paul Shepard, Peter Singer, Yi-
Fu Tuan, and E.O. Wilson. And currently, growing out of that
base, we are seeing a second generation of prolific scholarly
inquiry. The earlier scholars laid down some important
theoretical questions and perspectives, while the current
generation is filling in the answers with specific studies of
interactions with animals in different cultures, as well as
raising new theoretical questions.

Some of the best recent work contributes to building an archive
that restores and renders animals three-dimensionally in
cultural history. Elephant Slaves and Pampered Parrots: Exotic
Animals in Eighteenth-Century Paris, by Louise E. Robbins, an
independent scholar and editor at Cornell University Press,
exemplifies such historical reclamation. The book initiates a
new series from Johns Hopkins University Press called Animals,
History, Culture, edited by Harriet Ritvo (a historian and
author of the groundbreaking 1987 book The Animal Estate: The
English and Other Creatures in the Victorian Age), which
promises to provide a broad base for future work in human-animal
studies.

Nonnative animals were prevalent in 18th-century Paris in fairs,
natural-theology texts, animal fights, private households, and
the commercial bird trade (conducted by oiseleurs, members of
the guild that sold canaries, cardinals, parrots, parakeets, et
al.). These animals appeared ubiquitously on the streets, in
paintings, and in jokes. Robbins asks some good questions about
the phenomenon: "How did these exotic animals get to France, who
brought them and why, and where did they reside in Paris? What
kinds of meanings did people ascribe to them, and how were those
meanings related to other aspects of French culture?"

Interest in animals focused not so much on the creatures
themselves, but rather provided "a way to think about human
behavior and society," Robbins writes. In natural-history texts,
animals "provided moral, social, and political lessons in a
manner similar to that of fables." For example, Georges-Louis
Buffon's Histoire naturelle -- a multivolume encyclopedia that
was the period's most popular book on animals -- lauded the
elephant as the best of all the animals: intelligent, dextrous,
zealous, faithful, prudent, moderate, and powerful. While he
"believed that his description ... was based on accurately
assessing its capabilities rather than on attributing spurious
marvels to it," Robbins writes, nevertheless there was a
pronounced anthropomorphic license in the portrait that
accentuated Buffon's view of the animal's moral exemplariness.
Often, not just in bygone French culture but today as well,
animals serve as a mirror held up to humanity. Is it fair and
reasonable to use animals in this way? Or does it transform them
into vehicles for our narcissism? Cultural formulations may be
prone to relegate animals to the merely metaphorical,
disregarding their inherent integrity.

It is both amusing and disturbing to read of people's bizarre
interactions with animals in 18th-century France. Crowds at the
royal menagerie in Versailles watched an elephant uncork bottles
of wine with its trunk and take tobacco from people's
snuffboxes. At a Paris display, a monkey was trained to strike a
match and light a candle, which a lion would extinguish with its
paw. At the Saint-Germain fair, a trained seal offered its paws
to spectators like a dog; boys rode on the backs of tame
cougars; and a chimpanzee "led visitors by the hand, sat at a
table, wiped its lips with a napkin, poured and drank a cup of
tea -- after stirring in sugar and letting it cool -- and ate so
many bonbons presented to it by the crowds that, a year later in
London, it died."

Elephant Slaves and Pampered Parrots conveys the joy and wonder
Parisians reaped from the monkeys and elephants frolicking
around in their society. As Robbins points out, lurking beneath
is the animals' profound exploitation: their torturous
importation from their native climes; their high mortality rates
on the way to France (many died of maltreatment aboard ship;
others, if food supplies ran low, simply became dinner); their
minimally competent care if they happened to arrive in Paris
intact.

The exotic species were, to their French admirers, highly
sentimentalized, very much in contrast to the creatures that
populate Steve Baker's The Postmodern Animal. Baker, an art
historian, depicts his titular subject as generally tatty and
oppressed; unstable, though all the more potent in our
imaginations. If Robbins's work typifies the recovery of obscure
information about animals' past, Baker exemplifies how animal
perspectives can infuse cutting-edge theory in a way that
portends a prominent role for anthrozoology in the future.
Postmodern scholarship invites readers to focus afresh on
subjects that have been marginalized and demands that they think
outside the box; both these characteristics facilitate an
eclectic and fertile consideration of animals.

"Animals are good to think," Claude L=E9vi-Strauss wrote in
Totemism in 1962, and postmodernism facilitates an "attempt to
think the animal differently," Baker believes, via its radically
shocking ways of seeing and its resistance to conventional
forms. Instead of the standard animal fare one might expect in
an art museum -- horses at rest in a field or birds of prey
haunting a memento mori -- postmodern animal art gives us, for
example, a picture of a taxidermist licking a severed cow's
head; representations of animals marked by the animals (with
prints or urine stains, or chunks bitten off by a wolf or
shark); a series of 140 photographs depicting a woman's erotic
relationship with her cat. Baker surveys a range of postmodern
visual art and adds a few philosophers, most notably Gilles
Deleuze and F=E9lix Guittari, to the mix.

Postmodern artists believe, Baker writes, that animals in
earlier artistic traditions had been too accessible and too
heavily burdened with a legacy of fixed meaning. "Botched
taxidermy" is how Baker describes a strain in contemporary
sculpture marked by weirdly mixed media that undermine
fundamental assumptions about what an animal is. At first
glance, the artifact looks like a cheap, kitschy profanation of
the animal. Mark Dion's "Tar and Feathers" features corpses of
several animals -- a cat, a snake, a frog, a few birds -- tarred
and hanging from a blackened tree, evoking a mass animal
lynching. Jordan Baseman's "The Cat and the Dog" consists of two
skinned animals nailed to the wall -- their pelts taxidermically
preserved, and their heads modeled to look disarmingly lifelike
and cuddly.

Indeed, I would point to what is probably the most famously
depraved art, that of Damien Hirst. His installations present
such tableaus as flies feeding on a rotting cow's head and then
dying as they fly into an Insect-O-Cutor (titled "A Thousand
Years"), and a pig sawed in half and preserved in formaldehyde
in a pair of glass cases ("This little piggy went to market,
this little piggy stayed at home"). However disturbingly, this
sort of art does make viewers confront how we see animals and
how we use them; works like this "undermine any sense of the
viewer's omnipotence and point instead to their powerlessness"
as Baker observes. And perhaps, at least for some viewers, these
botchings exact some stance of redress.

If postmodern art involves audiences in the condition of animal
subjects, the question of implication is profoundly more
immediate in zoos: People take animals away from their own
habitats and constrain them in ours, for our amusement or
education -- and, also, to celebrate our predominance over the
caged inmates. In Animal Attractions: Nature on Display in
American Zoos, Elizabeth Hanson examines how zoos have attempted
over the past century to present nature on display. She sees
zoos as a "middle landscape" where tensions are played out
between wilderness and civilization, science and popular
culture, education and entertainment. But she doesn't go far
enough, leaving unchallenged the standard received history of
zoos as fundamentally benign presences that enlighten and
entertain visitors. Hanson, a historian of science at
Rockefeller University, takes zoos at face value when she
writes, "In the 21st century, zoos continue to grapple with a
problem that has remained consistent from their beginnings: how
to convince their audience to appreciate wildlife."

I dispute her premise: Zoos do not facilitate wildlife
appreciation, nor are they fundamentally meant to do so. As John
Berger wrote, "The zoo to which people go to meet animals, to
observe them, to see them, is, in fact, a monument to the
impossibility of such encounters." Zoos show how powerfully
people are able to disrupt wildlife by detaching animals from
nature. Zoos collect inconveniently wild specimens from the four
corners of the earth and put them in convenient cages, thereby
celebrating people's control over -- not, as Hanson claims,
appreciation of -- animals and their world. Denuded and
desecrated habitats give the lie to our culture's appreciation
of wildlife: Zoos remove a few trinkets from that troubled and
troubling wildlife and resituate them in a place that could
hardly be further from nature -- surrounded by parking lots,
gift shops, and hot-dog stands.

Zoos have always kept their more unpalatable machinations hidden
behind the scenes. As she recounts the history of zoos, Hanson
sanitizes the processes underlying exhibitions of captive
animals. For example, in describing the role of animal traders
in zoo development, Hanson recounts the 1922 acquisition of a
duck-billed platypus for the Bronx Zoo -- the first time that
animal had been seen alive outside Australia. Five platypuses
began the journey from Australia by steamer and then by rail
from San Francisco to New York; only one animal survived the
trip, and that one (advertised as the "most strange and
wonderful of all land animals") died 49 days after its arrival.

Hanson copiously recounts such details as the intricate cage
fashioned to transport the animals: seven compartments, rising
in steps, connected by a ramp, with a wet bottom chamber for a
swimming pool, a dry sleeping den above, and rubber squeegees in
the intervening rooms so that the platypuses could squeeze
excess water from their fur while climbing up to bed. But the
animals' demise is not characterized as any more significant in
this enterprise than their cage or diet. Death is just one more
pedestrian detail, unchallenged and rendered unremarkable.

A different way to regard this episode: Doesn't it drastically
illustrate the scale of damage -- a 100-percent mortality rate -
- that results when people decontextualize animals and frame
them as displays? Doesn't this suggest that the Bronx is an
unsuitable platypus habitat, and that people should leave the
animals alone?

A crucial task for anthrozoology must be to decenter the human
perspective and discover the animals' authentic reality --
certainly a complex concept, but one that may be more easily
understood by antithesis to cultural constructions of animals.
Nigel Rothfels sees "an inescapable difference between what an
animal is and what people think an animal is." Rothfels, a
historian at the University of Wisconsin at Milwaukee, is the
author of Savages and Beasts: The Birth of the Modern Zoo (also
in the new Hopkins series). In the end, he writes, "an animal or
species is as much a constellation of ideas (for example,
vicious, noble, intelligent, cruel, caring, brave) as anything
else."

Rothfels gets what Hanson misses about zoos: He is attuned to
the ironies pervading zoos' mediation of people and animals and
understands that zoos operate according to entrepreneurial
rather than environmental principles. Despite more than a
century of trying to present "the ideal exhibit," Rothfels
writes, "the zoo still ultimately disappoints." Supposed
innovations are exposed as disingenuous. For example, a
conservation program features "'rain forest meters,' whereby
visitors can put a nickel into an adapted parking meter to save
a small piece of rain forest somewhere"; but the idea of
controlling land in faraway places suggests "that the imperial
impulses of the great 19th-century zoos are not as distant from
contemporary zoos as we may want to believe."

A chapter on 19thand 20th-century exhibitions of non-Western
indigenous peoples (Eskimos, Sudanese, Australian aborigines,
Native Americans, among others) highlights the specious sense of
superiority among spectators, whether they are looking at people
or animals. Rothfels suggests that the dynamics are not that
dissimilar between either kind of exhibit. The history of human
displays conducted under the guise of anthropology and
ethnography has been documented before, but never with such a
keen sense of connection between these and zoo operations.
Rothfels uses the experience of Carl Hagenbeck, a 19th-century
animal dealer and a prominent force behind both zoos and human
displays, to document the insidious links between the two
enterprises: part of a sordid historical legacy that zoos have
never confronted, much less expunged.

It is, indeed, necessary to conduct a large-scale re-evaluation
of our cultural and intellectual history in order to understand
how people and animals have coexisted throughout the centuries,
and this is what Akira Mizuta Lippit achieves in Electric
Animal: Toward a Rhetoric of Wildlife. Lippit, an associate
professor of film studies and critical theory at San Francisco
State University, re-examines the touchstones of Western
intellectual development. In a dazzling interdisciplinary romp
through Aristotle, Heidegger, Darwin, Freud, and up to the
present with a discussion of Kafka, photography, and cinema,
Lippit is keenly aware of how, throughout history, people have
condescended toward animals -- the flip side of valuing humanity
above all else. Inspired by Jacques Derrida's effort to track
"the figure of the animal through the terrain mapped by
conceptions of language," Lippit deconstructs the masking of
animal consciousness in our intellectual traditions.

He demonstrates that the animals Descartes dismissed as
irrational machines or automata are nonetheless fundamentally
part of human consciousness, and he argues that even if, like
Descartes, one denies animal rationality, that does not expel
the animal from our community of sentience. (It only speaks to
the perverse supremacist fantasy of so doing.) His point echoes
Baker's proposition that an ecological sensibility is currently
supplanting Cartesian dualism: "The future of the human in the
postmodern world is so intimately and creatively bound up with
that of the animal. From this perspective, the classic dualism
of human and animal is not so much erased as rendered
uninteresting as a way of thinking about being in the world."

Eileen Crist, like Lippit, explores the sublimation of animals'
force and their own objective reality, which have been
overwritten by various human enterprises. In Images of Animals:
Anthropomorphism and Animal Mind, Crist, an assistant professor
of science and technology studies at Virginia Tech, examines the
role of language in the portrayal of animals. Studying the
writings of naturalists and behavioral scientists such as
Darwin, Jean Henri Fabre, George and Elizabeth Peckham, and
Konrad Lorenz, Crist finds, unsurprisingly, that the
"portraiture" of animals varies widely from text to text.
Paradoxically, while the scientists all "have this common goal
of arriving at faithful representations of animals --
documenting with great care their life histories, habits, and
instincts -- they nevertheless often reveal realities that are
worlds apart." Crist highlights, for example, the striking
differences between naturalist writing, in which animal life is
regarded as immanently meaningful and subjective, versus
ethological studies, which regard animals from an external
perspective with an eye toward theorizing their behavior. Just
as there is no intrinsic meaning to a falling object or a
swinging pendulum, so an internal point of view is eradicated
from animal life with the use of technical language in
ethological accounts, Crist explains.

Can we know animals at all, I wonder? Our discourses are so
subjective, and mutually contradictory, albeit cloaked in the
conceit of positivistic omniscience. That serves to set people
apart from animals, Crist writes; it "has fueled our self-
importance and propped our thoughtless and destructive
relationship with the natural world."

We need to seek real animals -- animals unencumbered by human
constructs, frames, and prejudices -- if we hope to live
harmoniously with them. Ecology, not to mention ethics, demands
that we strive for an equitable relationship with other species,
and we owe a debt to the scholars whose work helps advance that
consciousness. The best of this work may inspire a "Potteresque"
perspective on our coexistence with animals -- not the dull
"Dursleyan" model that is all too prevalent.

Randy Malamud is a professor of English at Georgia State
University. He is the author of Reading Zoos: Representations of
Animals and Captivity (New York University Press, 1998) and
Poetic Animals and Animal Souls, to be published by Palgrave in
March.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Books Discussed in This Essay

Animal Attractions: Nature on Display in American Zoos, by Elizabeth
Hanson (Princeton University Press, 2002)

Electric Animal: Toward a Rhetoric of Wildlife, by Akira Mizuta Lippit
(University of Minnesota Press, 2000)

Elephant Slaves and Pampered Parrots: Exotic Animals in
Eighteenth-Century Paris, by Louise E. Robbins (Johns Hopkins University
Press, 2002)

Images of Animals: Anthropomorphism and Animal Mind, by Eileen Crist
(Temple University Press, 1999)

The Postmodern Animal, by Steve Baker (Reaktion Books, 2000)

Savages and Beasts: The Birth of the Modern Zoo, by Nigel Rothfels
(Johns Hopkins University Press, 2002)


----------------------------------------------------------------









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Mar > Mar 1

                         Re: Warp Drive When? - Pope

From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 14:24:14 -0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 17:22:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Warp Drive When? - Pope


 >From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 05:01:50 +0100
 >Subject: Warp Drive When?

 >Howdy fellow Listerians,

 >For those who have an interest in breakthrough propulsion please
 >take a look in this link titled Warp Drive When? You will notice
 >that when you clink on the link to the website of NASA's
 >Breakthrough Propulsion Physics Project the home page has large
 >red letters telling you that NASA has zero budget for this
 >project anymore.

 >This link will open right into an extensive look at this area
 >from the mind of the former head of the NASA project.

 > http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/PAO/warp.htm

Josh and List,

You may also be interested in this article from the February
1999 issue of Scientific American. It's by Stephanie D. Leifer
at JPL, and deals with the possible development of spacecraft
powered by propulsion systems based on nuclear fission or
matter-antimatter annihilation.

http://216.239.51.100/search?q=cache:GySTPezOmfkC:holtz.org/Library/Portable/200
2-03-31/The%2520Way%2520to%2520Go%2520in%2520Space%2520February%25201999.htm+%22
stephanie+d+leifer%22&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

Best wishes,

Nick Pope









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Mar > Mar 1

               Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe - Hale

From: Roy Hale <roy.hale@ntlworld.com>
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 14:31:50 -0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 17:26:31 -0500
Subject: Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe - Hale


 >From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 07:55:53 -0300
 >Subject: Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe

<snip>

 >So, it is a complete shame that we see great parts of our
 >efforts discarded in this situation. Linda has not only
 >disappointed us but has done so consciously, as she probably
 >knows what she is doing, causing severe damage to Ufology.

 >A. J. Gevaerd

Hi,

Just a quick comment here, as I have been following this thread.

Can I take it, that if Linda Moulton Howe did not get involved
in this case, then she would not be dissected here on updates?

Another point I would like to raise:

This List has been told this case is a hoax, does this now mean
that any case which is called a hoax by a researcher, is never
to be looked into by any third party who may have differing
opinions on why, or how such a conclusion was reached?

One more point that was raised in this thread, by Robert Gates:

This case has been having incidents happening over a period of
some considerable years, prior to the person who is objected
against as being the hoaxer, being involved? Does this therefore
count for any second look into the case?

Can Mr Gevaerd please post a link to his research on this case,
so I can read his hoax claims?

I would like to point out, that Linda Moulton Howe was a
Journalist / Media before she was  a researcher of the UFO
phenomena, logically this would also present some of her traits
as a media person, who also logically would still have a very
large connection to the USA Media, and beyond. So with this,
would anyone on this list , not use these connections to support
your research?

I think I am saying, yes money makes the world go around, but if
people are objecting to L M Howe on making a living out of this
subject, then wake up smell the coffee, because once you get
paid for a lecture, a video, a book, a media presentation, you
too are making a living out of UFOs!


Roy..








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   Mar > Mar 1

                Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Auchettl

From: John Auchettl <Praufo@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 10:06:39 EST
Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 17:29:26 -0500
Subject: Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Auchettl


 >From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 05:53:39 +0100
 >Subject: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism

 >Come take a look,http://home.earthlink.net/~lrgoldner/yockey.html


Hi Josh,

I read your link to Loren Goldner, "An American National
Bolshevik" - 'Review of: Kevin Coogan. Dreamer of the Day.
Francis Parker Yockey and the Postwar Fascist International'.

And, sorry Josh, that German food is clogging that 57 year-old
"Grossraumordnung" head you think in.

Have another read, no "Dark Side Of Postmodernism" in Kevin
Coogan's book - just a distillation of "orthodox Yockeyism".

An interesting review, but I think your Pink Floyd Santa Monica
days have gone LSD on you.

Miko will have to bring you home, very soon.


Regards,

John Auchettl


PS: Question: - What year and Class did you Grad from at Army
Aviation Center, Ft Wolters, Texas before you went to the 175th
Assault Helicopter Company?


Phenomena Research Australia [PRA]
P.O. Box 523, Mulgrave, Victoria, Australia, 3170
Australian & Asia UFO
1961-2003 - 42 YEARS OF RESEARCH SERVICE










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   Mar > Mar 1

             Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe - Connors

From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 08:39:33 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 17:31:06 -0500
Subject: Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe - Connors


Am I the only person who finds it rather odd that Ms. Moulton
Howe didn't take scientists with her to Brazil to investigate?
What is her qualifications for proper evidencuary collection of
samples and insurance of their provance?

Never mind. <G>

Nice that Linda is going to put "documents" on her website...
course, it's gonna cost you an arm and a leg to see it.


Wendy Connors








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   Mar > Mar 1

                          Re: Pioneer 10 - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 14:02:35 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 17:38:17 -0500
Subject: Re: Pioneer 10 - Maccabee


 >From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 19:44:27 -0800 (PST)
 >Subject: Re: Pioneer 10

 >>From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
 >>To: UFO Updates <UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 16:57:42 -0700
 >>Subject: Pioneer 10

<snip>

 >The famous plaque on board Pioneer 10 wasn't designed for
 >aliens; it was designed for our descendants.

Amusing concept. By the time pour descendants have achieved
ra[pid space travel and have caught up with Pioneer 10 to

capture it (and put into a museum?) they will have forgetten
what we looked like in the 20th and early 21st centuries.

<LOL>








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   Mar > Mar 1

                  Re: Question About Missing Time - Shough

From: Martin Shough <mshough@parcellular.fsnet.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 19:58:18 -0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 17:42:17 -0500
Subject: Re: Question About Missing Time - Shough


 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 02:06:32 -0500
 >Subject: Question About Missing Time

 >Hello All,

 >I had always associated the term 'missing time' with the memory
 >blackouts that heavy-drinking alcoholics or drug addicts often
 >report. What has happened to me and to many others is 'something
 >else' however. The 'missing time' that I refer to is not
 >related/correlated, to a state of intoxication.

<snip>

 >Does anybody know if the UFO/abduction kind of missing time has
 >ever been reported under 'other' circumstances? According to my
 >own admittedly limited knowledge, other than in abduction
 >reports, I have never before heard of 'this kind' of missing
 >time.
 >
 >I honestly think that the phenomena of missing time as I
 >described it above is unique to UFO abduction reports. Does
 >anyone have information to the contrary? I'm curious if the kind
 >of missing time I'm talking about _is_ in fact, unique to
 >abduction reports.

 >Thank you in advance for any info/insight you may be able to
 >provide.


 >Regards to all,
 >
 >John Velez

Hi John et al.,

No, the phenomenon of missing time is not unique to UFO
abduction reports. It occurs in several parallel folkloric
traditions around the world, for example abductions by the
fairies etc. But neither is it specific to abductions, folkloric
or ufological. Psychologists have long recognised it as a
distinct type of attention anomaly. For example psychologist
Graham Reed, Professor of Psychology at York University (Canada)
devoted three pages to it in "The Psychology of Anomalous
Experience", Hutchinson University Library 1972, p.18.


[Begin Quote]

"THE TIME-GAP EXPERIENCE
After a long drive the motorist will quite commonly report that
at some point on the journey he 'woke up' to realise that he had
no awareness of some preceding period of time. People often
describe this, with some justification, as 'a gap in time', 'a
lost half-hour' or 'a piece out of my life'. The strangeness of
the experience springs partly from the 'waking up' when one is
already awake..."

[End of Quote]


Arguably from the point of view of the psychologist the
distinctive feature of your experience and others like it would
be not so much the character of the material that is later
suspected or 'discovered' to have filled the time-gap but the
character of the high-arousal high-stress trigger situation (of
'seeing the UFO') because becoming alarmed and alert is
definitely not symptomatic of the 'workaday' time-gap
experience. Probably the psychologist would try to see it as a
kind of fugue state, where loss of conscious attention is also
experienced.


Regards

Martin Shough








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   Mar > Mar 1

              Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe - Gates

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 15:30:20 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 17:43:53 -0500
Subject: Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe - Gates


 >From: Pedro Luz Cunha <pplcunha@yahoo.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 09:22:25 -0300 (ART)
 >Subject: Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe


 >>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 20:22:22 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe

 >>>From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
 >>>To: UFO Updates <UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 08:40:02 -0700
 >>>Subject: Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe

 >>>People on this List actually continue to take Linda
 >>>Moulton Howe's research seriously?

 >>>Unbelievable.

 >>>She aligned herself with Art Bell and that, in itself, makes
 >>>her research suspect.

 >>>Look. She did a good job once with the Mute situation. It's been
 >>>downhill for her on the slide of sensationalism and yellow
 >>>journalism. That happens to one-hit wonders.

 >>Assuming that the hoax reports out of Brazil are true (and I
 >>have seen no evidence to suggest otherwise) we need to keep in
 >>mind that many so called mainstream respectable UFO researchers
 >>have been victimized by a hoax. For example Hynek had the
 >>Jarslow photos; Randle had Kaufman; Stan had Gerald Anderson,
 >>abduction researchers have had a few phonys just to name a few.

 >>I would assume that if all of this is verified, Linda would
 >>publish a full retraction on the story.


 >Mr Gates,

 >It seems to me that there will be no way to convince you of what
 >the Brazilian Ufologists have come up with, here on UFO
 >UpDates.

Pedro,

If you look at what I said above "Assuming that the hoax reports
out of Brazil are true (and I have seen no evidence to suggest
otherwise..."   The one thing that pauses me is in one of AJ's
posts where he said that this is hotly debated or words to that
effect.  If it is hotly debated, you have two sides to the
story, meaning it is apparently no a slam dunk, forgone
conclusion.

 From the evidence I have seen (based upon email posts from two
individuals) it appears to be a hoax.


Cheers,

Robert







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   Mar > Mar 1

               A Response From A 'Formidable Adversary Agency'

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net>
Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 16:12:41 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 17:46:03 -0500
Subject: A Response From A 'Formidable Adversary Agency'


FROM: Federal Aviation Administration
     800 Independence Avenue, S.W.
     Washington, DC 20591

TO: Larry W. Bryant

DATE: February 26, 2003

Dear Mr. Bryant (Freedom of Information Act Request No. 2003-
0003766):

This letter acknowledges receipt of your December 5, 2002 e-mail
FOIA request to the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) for a
copy of all records regarding a July 26, 2002 Waldorf, Maryland
incident that FAA has shared with the National Institute for
Discovery Science. The General Legal Services Staff, Office of
the Chief Counsel, forwarded your request to the National
Freedom of Information Act Staff on February 25.

Your original request was never received in the FOIA office. You
addressed your e-mail to: 9-awa-aoa-consumer@faa.gov. That e-
mail address is not the FOIA e-mail address. We are not sure
which office that e-mail address belongs to. The correct e-mail
address for the FOIA staff is 7-awa-arc-foia@faa.gov. Please
note that future FOIA requests must be sent either to the FOIA
e-mail address listed above or mailed to: Federal Aviation
Administration, National Freedom of Information Act Staff, ARC-
40, Room 911, 800 Independence Avenue, SW., Washington, DC
20591.

Your request has been assigned for action to the following
offices:

Air Traffic Service, ATX-400 -- 800 Independence Avenue, SW;
Washington, DC 20591 - Contact: Josie M. Clark, FOIA Coordinator
(Phone: 202-267-3469).

Eastern Region, AEA-60 -- 1 Aviation Plaza; Jamaica, NY 11434-
4809 - Contact: Trina Hankerson, FOIA Coordinator (Phone: 718-
553-3361).

National Freedom of Information Act Staff, ARC-40 -- 800
Independence Avenue, SW; Washington, DC 20591 - Contact: Joann
Noonan (Phone: 202-267-9165).

Should you wish to inquire as to the status of your request, please
contact the assigned FOIA coordinators. Please refer to the above
referenced FOIA number on all future correspondence.

Sincerely,


A. Bernette Smith
Feedom of Information Act Management Specialist

[LWB Note: Shouldn't the FAA inspector general try to determine
why ANY snail-mail fails to make its way to this federal agency
charged with promoting, monitoring, and protecting the
safety/efficiency of U. S. airborne activity? My Dec. 5, 2002,
e-letter request made it plain that I was snail-mailing to them
a signed printout thereof; did one or more FAA recipients choose
to destroy or hide that letter (for whatever reason)? Could
there possibly be an object lesson here: when you have the goods
on agency stonewalling, obfuscation, prevarication, abuse of
authority, or other wrongdoing, you'd better send your initial
correspondence to them via Certified Mail!]








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   Mar > Mar 1

              CCCRN News: New CCCRN and Crop Circle Photographs

From: Paul Anderson <psa@look.ca>
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 13:53:56 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 17:47:43 -0500
Subject: CCCRN News: New CCCRN and Crop Circle Photographs


CCCRN NEWS
E-News from the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network

March 1, 2003

http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada

_____________________________

The People Of CCCRN

A photo page of some of the Canadian researchers has been added
to the web site, to help put faces to names of some of those in
our dedicated teams.


Update - Mission, BC #2 Corn Formation, 2002

A few additional ground photos have also been added for the
Mission, BC #2 formation from 2002, showing some stalks bent
over from several inches to over a foot above the ground (mostly
in the two rectangular sidebars, the last additions to the
formation along with the half-circle) while others were bent or
broken at ground level.


Canadian Crop Circle Photographs

A page has also been added of selected Canadian crop circle
photographs for which photo or laser prints are now available,
both aerial and scenic, from 2001 and 2002 initially, with
others to be added.

____________________________


Crop Circles: Quest for Truth

Buy the DVD or VHS Video through CCCRN at special
discounted prices!

http://www.cropcirclesthemovie.com/affiliates/special_buy2.php?id=a6cf7d

____________________________


The Prairie Circular

Want more? Subscribe to The Prairie Circular, the quarterly
print newsletter of CCCRN and keep informed with the latest
news, updates, articles, reviews and complete crop circle
coverage from the Canadian prairies and across the country...
only from CCCRN!

Only $12.00 Canadian funds per year, payable by cheque, money
order or PayPal

Current issue: Winter 2002 - Canadian Crop Circle Summary Report
2002

http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada/theprairiecircular.html

____________________________


CCCRN News is the e-news service of the Canadian Crop Circle
Research Network, providing e-mail updates with the latest news
and reports on the crop circle phenomenon in Canada, as well as
other information on CCCRN-related projects and events, sent
free to your e-mail

To subscribe, send an e-mail with Subscribe CCCRN News
in the subject line to:
cccrnnews@look.ca

The Canadian Crop Circle Research Network is a non-profit
research organization which has been seriously investigating and
documenting the crop circle phenomenon and other possibly
related phenomena in Canada since 1995, creating a liason
between researchers, farmers, the public, media and scientists

Main Office

202 - 325 East 14th Avenue
Vancouver, BC V5T 2M9 Canada
Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522
Cell: 604.727.1454
E-Mail: cccrn@look.ca
Web: http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada

C. Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, 2003









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   Mar > Mar 1

                   New Era for FOIA Responsiveness at CIA?

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net>
Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 17:32:45 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 17:49:03 -0500
Subject: New Era for FOIA Responsiveness at CIA?


FROM:  Central Intelligence Agency
        Washington, DC  20505

TO:  Larry W. Bryant

DATE:  Feb. 25, 2003

Dear Mr. Bryant:

Your letter of 7 February 2003 requesting records [about CIA
censorship of operative "Wendy Lee's" draft memoirs] under the
provisions of the Freedom of Information Act has been received
in the office of the Information and Privacy Coordinator.  Our
analysts will review your request, and we will be in touch with
you to advise you of any problems we have encountered or whether
we can search for records without any additional information.

Your request has been assigned Reference No. F-2003-00267 for
identification purposes.

Sincerely,


Kathryn I. Dyer
Information and Privacy Coordinator







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   Mar > Mar 1

                   Re: Question About Missing Time - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 18:21:28 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 18:39:39 -0500
Subject: Re: Question About Missing Time - Velez


 >From: Martin Shough <mshough@parcellular.fsnet.co.uk>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 19:58:18 -0000
 >Subject: Re: Question About Missing Time

 >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 02:06:32 -0500
 >>Subject: Question About Missing Time

 >>I had always associated the term 'missing time' with the memory
 >>blackouts that heavy-drinking alcoholics or drug addicts often
 >>report. What has happened to me and to many others is 'something
 >>else' however. The 'missing time' that I refer to is not
 >>related/correlated, to a state of intoxication.

 ><snip>

 >>Does anybody know if the UFO/abduction kind of missing time has
 >>ever been reported under 'other' circumstances? According to my
 >>own admittedly limited knowledge, other than in abduction
 >>reports, I have never before heard of 'this kind' of missing
 >>time.
 >>
 >>I honestly think that the phenomena of missing time as I
 >>described it above is unique to UFO abduction reports. Does
 >>anyone have information to the contrary? I'm curious if the kind
 >>of missing time I'm talking about _is_ in fact, unique to
 >>abduction reports.

<snip>

 >No, the phenomenon of missing time is not unique to UFO
 >abduction reports. It occurs in several parallel folkloric
 >traditions around the world, for example abductions by the
 >fairies etc. But neither is it specific to abductions, folkloric
 >or ufological. Psychologists have long recognised it as a
 >distinct type of attention anomaly. For example psychologist
 >Graham Reed, Professor of Psychology at York University (Canada)
 >devoted three pages to it in "The Psychology of Anomalous
 >Experience", Hutchinson University Library 1972, p.18.

Hi Martin,

 >[Begin Quote]

 >"THE TIME-GAP EXPERIENCE
 >After a long drive the motorist will quite commonly report that
 >at some point on the journey he 'woke up' to realise that he had
 >no awareness of some preceding period of time. People often
 >describe this, with some justification, as 'a gap in time', 'a
 >lost half-hour' or 'a piece out of my life'. The strangeness of
 >the experience springs partly from the 'waking up' when one is
 >already awake..."

 >[End of Quote]

Hypnotic states are much different from what I'm talking about.
I was in a state of fight or flight. Sharpened, hightened
awareness if anything. In that state everything slows down. You
are acutely aware of, and notice _everything_. It's a 'survival'
situation and there's no time for 'sleeping' or wandering off in
thought as in the example quoted above. It is 'red alert' and
the little hairs on the back of your neck stand up at attention
like little antennae.

That is one of the things that made it so shocking. I was wide
awake and alert. When the 'instant change' happened, I felt
_totally_ disoriented and confused. It wasn't like 'waking up'
to realize that I must have drifted off, this was a complete
disconnect in the time-line. Something that had never happened
to me before, or since. Unique. That's why it stands out in
memory so.

 >Arguably from the point of view of the psychologist the
 >distinctive feature of your experience and others like it would
 >be not so much the character of the material that is later
 >suspected or 'discovered' to have filled the time-gap but the
 >character of the high-arousal high-stress trigger situation (of
 >'seeing the UFO') because becoming alarmed and alert is
 >definitely not symptomatic of the 'workaday' time-gap
 >experience. Probably the psychologist would try to see it as a
 >kind of fugue state, where loss of conscious attention is also
 >experienced.

Again, I don't think 'fugues' apply to fight or flight
responses/ states. A 'fugue' is more like what was described
above. A driver hypnotized by the road after a long trip
suddenly realizes that he/she has 'drifted off.' That's nothing
like what happened to me.

The 'hunt' goes on. Thank you for the references. I will check
them out/give em a read, asap. I really want to learn more about
this.


Regards,

John Velez







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   Mar > Mar 2

             Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe - Gevaerd

From: A. J. Gevaerd - <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 19:38:03 -0300
Fwd Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 10:14:06 -0500
Subject: Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe - Gevaerd


 >From: Roy Hale <roy.hale@ntlworld.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 14:31:50 -0000
 >Subject: Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe

 >>From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 07:55:53 -0300
 >>Subject: Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe

 ><snip>

 >>So, it is a complete shame that we see great parts of our
 >>efforts discarded in this situation. Linda has not only
 >>disappointed us but has done so consciously, as she probably
 >>knows what she is doing, causing severe damage to Ufology.

 >>A. J. Gevaerd

 >Hi,

 >Just a quick comment here, as I have been following this thread.

 >Can I take it, that if Linda Moulton Howe did not get involved
 >in this case, then she would not be dissected here on updates?

<snip>


Hi Roy and Listers:

As I said before, I have my people working on translations of
the numerous reports about Urandir's fake activities. And as I
said here before, you still can find a lot of what Brazilians
UFO researchers sent to Jeff Rense, as he posted this stuff in
his website. Please check that out or, if you read Portuguese,
see a nice picture of Urandir in jail and the proper
documentation at:

http://old.ufo.com.br/edicoes/ufo71

It is "old" because we are rebuilding our entire page and
"ufo71" means the edition 71 of our magazine, published two
years ago. In our lastest edition, January/February, there is a
long article on Urandir's new B.S., including comments on
Linda's 'investigation'.

Roy, I am sorry she has been "dissected here" - your own words.
But as soon as I posted my open letter on the internet the
reactions started - naturally. I have received dozens of private
mails very supportive and very, very much revealing of Linda's
suspicious involvement in other stories - specially Crop
Circles. But let me assure you that it was not my intention. Ask
anyone who knows me and they will tell you that's not way that I
operate.

Also, as a matter of fact, when Urandir's P.R. very well paid
personnel called Linda last year, she called my home and we
spoke for over 30 minutes about the case. I was very detailed in
the report I made her over the phone, about the case. Also, we
exchanged several e-mails where I tried to give her details and
more details of the situation. I recall sending her over 15
e- mails and got only 2 or 3 vague answers. I am absolutely
certain that she decided not to take my, or anyone else's, word
into consideration from the very beginning.

Folks at UFO UpDates, don't you feel that it is strange that
even under intense debate Linda Moulton Howe still refuses to
hear us, the Brazilian UFO researchers? What is preventing her
from listening to her South American Colleagues? Are we so
worthless that we don't deserve attention? Folks, I could
scream loudly that she is completely fooled by the man she met
and totally mistaken about the case. Wouldn't a serious UFO
researcher and/or journalist say "Okay, okay, okay. Let's check
out what you are saying"?


A. J. Gevaerd








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   Mar > Mar 2

                      LMH Can You Prove Your Evidence?

From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 08:22:18 -0300
Fwd Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 10:38:59 -0500
Subject: LMH Can You Prove Your Evidence?


Linda,

I know that you are not listening to me and that you don't care
much about what the truth is in this issue. I am starting to
worry about what is your agenda with Urandir, but it is entirely
your problem. However, you've been lying about some situations
involved in this dispute, either naively and because you don't
know the facts and have been misinformed by your new friend, or
you simply chose to lie about these facts even knowing what the
truth is. What is worst?

I consider that it is your right to support and promote Urandir
in this thing - I debate, but respect that. I entirely disagree
with what you are doing, which I classify as shameless, to say
the least. But it is your right to do what you are doing and
even get paid to do it. _However_, when you start lying about
things that directly involve me, it exceeds your rights and
becomes my problem. And I will not rest a single minute until I
have things cleared up. Please, be aware that I have the
necessary docs and info to support what I claim, and you don't.

If you have two minutes to spare, read the message below, that
I'm posting to 3,000 people all over the world this evening.

-----

Correcting Mistakes

I have just been informed about last Friday's Coast-to-Coast
show, where Linda Moulton Howe presented the "Corghinho Case"
(its still wrong on her webpage. It is Corguinho and means
'Little River'). I made the decision not to listen to it live,
as I knew that a lot of discrepancies would occur during Linda's
'investigation', either made voluntarily by her or naively. I
don't know George Noory but I guess he would agree that all the
info presented on his show should be legitimate and maybe he
doesn't know that some is not. And as a matter of ethics,
probably he would like to have both versions of this thing.

Well, one of the discrepancies just presented is that "poor, shy
and humble farmer" Urandir got several lawsuits from A. J.
Gevaerd. That is hilarious and another interesting piece of this
debate. Please, Linda, you should know better that our legal
system in Brazil has a very well updated website where this kind
of info can been verified. It is very easy. All someone has to
do is visit:

http://www.tj.gov.ms.br

and check out both names, mine (Ademar Jose Gevaerd) and
Urandir's (Fernandes de Oliveira).

Anyone can see that I am the defendant ("reu" in Portuguese) in
several lawsuits that Urandir has against me ("autor" in
Portuguese). Some lawsuits don't appear in that system, but most
of them do. So far, over 7 years, I have been object of 9
lawsuits from this cheater, every one of them very well taken
care of by my attorneys. The purpose of those lawsuits, along
with the threats and intimidation, pressure and campaign of
lies, is to silence me - and you see that I am not silent at
all. Urandir gave up on some of the lawsuits long ago and lost
two - the others are still under justice's roles.

I've never filed a lawsuit against him. Any serious journalist
should have verified that.

Even Urandir's lawyer entered a lawsuit against me and I am very
happy to say that as last Thurday I was officially informed that
I won that lawsuit, too. He demaned R$ 500 thousand - about US$
150 thousand - as damages to his moral image because of 'things
that I've said said about him'. Amazingly, his lawsuit had only
4 sheets of paper and was backed up with a xerox copy of an
e-mail from a third party. Well, Urandir's attorney not only
looses his client's lawsuits against me - as he lost his own.
Justice in Brazil may be slow, but it is fair.


A. J. Gevaerd








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              Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe - Gates

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 18:41:03 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 10:44:59 -0500
Subject: Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe - Gates


 >From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
 >Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 08:39:33 -0700
 >To: UFO Updates <UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe

 >Am I the only person who finds it rather odd that Ms. Moulton
 >Howe didn't take scientists with her to Brazil to investigate?
 >What is her qualifications for proper evidencuary collection of
 >samples and insurance of their provance?

An excellent point Wendy. How many UFO investigators (that are
deemed credible) take with them scientists and engineers on site
when they do an investigation?

What about the qualifications of these investigators to gather
evidence? Certainly none of them that I know of have degrees or
training in evidence gathering or forensic work/photography.

For example to be qualified to do historical work it is thought
that you have to have a historical background and a Masters or
Phd in history. However Jerry Clark does excellent work in that
regard and as I recall he does not have a degree in history, but
in something else. Not to mention others.

The very simple truth is that many so called "unqualified"
people give us reports and information all the time. Journalists
speak and write about subjects that they are "not qualified" in
but are considered to be experts none the less.

 >Nice that Linda is going to put "documents" on her website...
 >course, it's gonna cost you an arm and a leg to see it.

As I recall the yearly cost is less then renewing your
subscription to the MUFON journal. Before anybody says anything
I have not paid for nor do I have access to the paid portion of
her web site.

Cheers,

Robert








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              Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe - Cunha

From: Pedro Luz Cunha <pplcunha@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 20:54:32 -0300 (ART)
Fwd Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 10:58:14 -0500
Subject: Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe - Cunha


 >From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
 >Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 08:39:33 -0700
 >To: UFO Updates <UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe

 >Am I the only person who finds it rather odd that Ms. Moulton
 >Howe didn't take scientists with her to Brazil to investigate?
 >What is her qualifications for proper evidencuary collection of
 >samples and insurance of their provance?

 >Never mind. <G>

 >Nice that Linda is going to put "documents" on her website...
 >course, it's gonna cost you an arm and a leg to see it.

Dear Wendy,

Thanks for exposing your thoughts.

Scientific basic procedure must be followed to achieve good
results and I think these procedures are not being respected.

I am not a scientist, but I try to follow cartesian behavior.
But that doesn't mean I only see what logic shows me. Basic
methods of science must be followed to present good data, as for
the present method. I think that Ms. Moulton Howe should have
done that.

You are, for sure, right. And please let us know of any progress
in your research. I believe that people like you and many others
I see here, are working to unfold the mistery that we find
behind Ufology. We all here do the same. Exchanging good
information is a must. My sincere cumpliments.


Salutations,

Pedro Cunha








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              Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe - Cunha

From: Pedro Luz Cunha <pplcunha@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 21:11:41 -0300 (ART)
Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 11:15:14 -0500
Subject: Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe - Cunha


 >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 15:30:20 -0500
 >Subject: Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe

 >>From: Pedro Luz Cunha <pplcunha@yahoo.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 09:22:25 -0300 (ART)
 >>Subject: Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe

 >If you look at what I said above "Assuming that the hoax reports
 >out of Brazil are true (and I have seen no evidence to suggest
 >otherwise..."  The one thing that pauses me is in one of AJ's
 >posts where he said that this is hotly debated or words to that
 >effect. If it is hotly debated, you have two sides to the
 >story, meaning it is apparently no a slam dunk, forgone
 >conclusion.

 >From the evidence I have seen (based upon email posts from two
 >individuals) it appears to be a hoax.


Robert,


Yes, I understand your line of thought. But what keeps buzzing
my mind is that from your mail our evidence is not convincing
enough. Alright. That's why I posted my message.

When you say 'assuming' is a bit far out of what has been proved
here, and you can also check with Mr. Gevaerd. I am sure he will
provide you with any information you request or Ms. Linda, if
she wishes to do so. I have seen some of the most famous
paranormal people here. But not to this degree!!

And please... you are absolutely right. Both sides! That's why
the whole thread started. Linda hears only one side and for her
purposes. The American People deserve better information.

Great admiration for you all,

Pedro Cunha







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   Mar > Mar 3

                  Rev. Monroe Drew Jr. Founder Aereon Corp

From: Tom Benson <sparkle@earthlink.net>
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 19:56:29 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 11:20:40 -0500
Subject: Rev. Monroe Drew Jr. Founder Aereon Corp


Dear List:

The Rev. Monroe Drew, Jr., aged 86 died, Monday in San Antonio,
Texas. Drew founded the Aereon Corp. in 1959 in hope of
developing an aircraft to help Christian missionaries reach
people in the mountain and jungle areas of undeveloped
countries. The corporation. with Drew as its vice president,
worked in relative secret in a hanger at Mercer County Airport
in 1962 to build its first experimental model - the Aereon, a
three-hulled dirigible about 85 feet long. A full-size version
of the craft was expected to be as long as 800 feet.

The craft overturned in April, 1966 while taxiing down a runway
at the airport. following that mishap, a new radical design was
introduced.

Years later, after several other setbacks and after Drew had
left the company, another craft was developed that was featured
in the popular non-fiction book, "The Deltoid Pumpkin Seed" by
John McPhee.

Aereon Corp. under the leadership of the Rev. William Miller,
Jr. is still in existence and based in Princeton, New Jersey.

Tim Matthews, author of "UFO Revelation, The Secret Technology
Exposed?", referred to Aereon writing: "A small number of us
have consistently argued that many of the UFOs seen are a
combination of helicopter and aircraft technologies. There is
also some evidence that the military intend to use triangular
hybrid airships similar to the 1970s Aereon design. The Air
Force 2025 report shows a picture of the Aereon 340 proposal in
relation to a possible 'future' ('future' often means 'present'
in the black world)."


Tom Benson








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             Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe - Denzler

From: Brenda Denzler <bdenzler1@email.msn.com>
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 19:59:09 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 11:22:33 -0500
Subject: Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe - Denzler


 >From: Roy Hale <roy.hale@ntlworld.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 14:31:50 -0000
 >Subject: Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe

<snip>

 >... because once you get
 >paid for a lecture, a video, a book, a media presentation, you
 >too are making a living out of UFOs!

Uh, Roy. I can swear with my hand on any Good Book you wish
to suggest - Bible, Koran, or the Joy of Cooking - that the
money I have received for my book hardly constitutes "a living".


Brenda Denzler

Author of *The Lure of the Edge: Scientific Passions, Religious
Beliefs, and the Pursuit of UFOs*
http://www.abductionproject.com

"War does not determine who is right;
it only determines who is left."








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                Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Bennett

From: Colin Bennett <sharkley@panzerben.fsworld.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 02:12:48 +0000 (GMT Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 11:37:18 -0500
Subject: Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Bennett


 >From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 05:53:39 +0100
 >Subject: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism


Hello Mr Goldstein,

As the prize-winning author of a recent biography of Charles
Fort, which has been described as a "postmodern" work, I don't
usually respond to amateur non-published gadflies as yourself,
Mr Goldstein. However, since I think you're a covert sexy bitch
behind those Gestapo granny-glasses you wear, I think the
List might be interested to know that the last time you wrote to
me you referred to me as a masturbator and a colon. Yes, I admit
to being the only one of the first breed in captivity, but in
regard to the second, since I have never seen that part of my
anatomy, I cannot confirm a sighting. Perhaps you spend your
time peering up your own, in that case sir, you have the
advantage of me.

With regard to your own credibility, perhaps the List might also
like to know that some weeks back, you offered your own do-it
yourself "reality test" kit to abductee claimants, and if you
remember at the time, I advised you to sell this at the back of
car show rooms and perhaps make a fortune. I see Greer being
pelted on this List, but you appear to be getting away with such
delicious confectionary. I wonder why?

If this reality test kit of yours is an example of rational
thinking, then I despair for your completely disgraced
profession.

(did you like that, Dick? I know you're watching!)

For those List Bears who might want a breakdown of Mr
Goldstein's democratic character and equally democratic
profession, I refer them to my 700-line post of a few weeks ago.

Should anyone want to see postmodernism in user-friendly action,
then they should read my full-feature article High
Moon now running in Fortean Times 168, on NASA and James Oberg

Colin (Bad Man) Bennett)











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               Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Goldstein

From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 04:17:22 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 11:40:10 -0500
Subject: Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Goldstein


 >From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 09:05:07 -0500
 >Subject: Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism

<snip>

Hello Greg,

If the above statement is a good representaion of postmodernism
then all I can say is that I think quite differently. I also
think that the descriptions of postmodern animal art are pretty
ugly and sick. I am in a quite different world. I don't think
you and I should debate this as I suspect we would be off topic
for this list and remain180 degrees apart.

But to get closer to topic I would like to know from you how you
personally relate postmodern deconstruction with the serious
study of the UFO phenomenon.

Greg, have you ever had close pets with which you shared
universal love in both directions?


Thanks,

Josh










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                 Philadelphia Inquirer: Mutilated Body Found

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@charter.net>
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 19:54:10 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 11:42:03 -0500
Subject: Philadelphia Inquirer: Mutilated Body Found


Hello all,


This one I hope has a relativley prosiac explanation.

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/front/5290180.htm

If it doesn't well, I don't want to think about it.


GT McCoy








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              Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe - Gates

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 02:07:26 EST
Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 11:48:38 -0500
Subject: Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe - Gates


 >From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates <UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 04:07:52 -0700
 >Subject: Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe


 >>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates <UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 00:27:39 EST
 >>Subject: Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe

 ><Snip>

 >Robert, I'd almost have a tendency to believe your fervent rash
 >of posts regarding this thread is suspect. You getting some
 >kind of kickback from the $26 website charge of LMH, or
 >something?

Wendy,

No more of a kick back than what you get promoting "purple
robes". :)

Seriously, I would suspect that I am probably on Linda Howe's
crap-list over my Brazil posts. I would also point out that I
have not paid the Earthfiles web site charge, nor do I have
access to the paid portion.

 >Look, Linda Moulton-Howe has the right to fleece anyone she
 >wants and to be a schlocky researcher. It's a free country.
 >People have the right to saddle up to pay their money to enter
 >her website, get fleeced and beg for more. It's a free country.
 >She has the right to make money from ufological endeavors, even
 >though it damages the honest efforts of others to bring
 >legitimacy and respect for Ufology.

Ufology will never have any legitimacy and respect from the
outside, because the outside is too busy with legitimacy and
respect in their fields. Like so many other fields, Ufology will
only have legitimacy and respect from within the field. Quite
honestly if you ask a room full of meteorologists if they cared
about the field of geology the answer would probably be
no... unless of course some geological discovery was weather
connected. If you asked the same room full of meteorologists if
they cared about Ufology they wouldn't... unless it could tie
somehow into their field. Sure you may have a few people from
one field or another that have an interest in Ufology, but as a
whole that is very limited.

Would that change? Perhaps. If it was clearly proven that UFO
and ET exist and the government wanted to throw alot of money
into research, alot of these same disinterested and or skeptical
scientists and others would suddenly become patron research
saints of the UFO field campaigning for government grants to do
all this serious research that they would claim has been
neglected all these years by the amateurs.....

 >All I'm saying is that over time, people who can think, have
 >come to the conclusion that her research is mostly yellow style
 >journalism and done solely with a profit motive in mind. It is
 >applied explicitedly for sensationalistic value and to garner a
 >crowd.

While somebody might think that Linda Howe's research is "yellow
style" (for the benefit of listers who may not know so called
yellow journalism is typically associated with sensation and
scandel) it strikes me as being close to the various UFO
publications over the years. For example when I look at the
cover of the new MUFON journal and see the illustration of a
praying mantis type enity hovering over somebodies bed, with the
individuals horrified look on his face, Dr. Downings article on
UFOs, cults and cloning, and a short burb on the Woods new
documentary on the MJ-12 docs It's not yellow journalism, but
research that is being done and reported on. I may not agree
with the conclusions but it doesn't mean the publication is
involved with Yellow Style writing. Nor do I associate printed
abductee accounts over the years about the removal of fetus's,
sexual encounters, probes in various areas of the body and so on
to be yellow style...not to mention accounts from the NIDS ranch
of diminsional doors and other enitys..although a person could
make the allegation that they were.

The National Enquirer is typcially associated with yellow style
journalism, however as I recall Jesse Marcel's story about
Roswell was told by an Enquirer reporter Bob Pratt, not to
mention the intrusions of the SAC bases in 1975.

 >But, bottom lines are thus: Linda Moulton-Howe is not, in any
 >respect, a ufological researcher with credibility. She uses
 >Ufology for her own gain at the expense of really wanting the
 >knowledge and truth behind the phenomena. That's what separates
 >the Richard Hall's from the Linda Moulton-Howe's of the world.

As I have pointed out, some people make a living in the UFO
field and receive money for what they do, others do not. I have
not agreed with every story that Linda has put forth over the
years, nor have I agreed with every story floated out by so
called respectable UFO researchers over the years, nor do they
agree with each other and they argue about it vociferously. Even
the organizations and groups have disagreed. To CUFOS Gulf
Breeze was a hoax, hoax, hoax. To MUFON and Bruce Macabee, Gulf
Breeze was legit, legit, legit. To each organization their
research and conclusions were the credible ones and the other
group was simply off the beaten path. You may recall some of the
barbs that were exchanged back then.

Everytime some researcher peddles a book, audio recording or
video they in essence are doing the same thing Linda Howe is
doing.

 >I have nothing personal against Linda Moulton-Howe, Robert. She
 >has the right to be a sleazy, sensationalist. Just don't try to
 >legitimize her as a credible and respected Ufologist. To
 >thinking people and people who spend their money to make Ufology
 >credible, that's really pushing it.

The problem is whatever criteria that is used to make the
"sleezy, sensationalist" rating could also be applied to other
publications in the UFO field that are considered respectable.

As to Ufology being credible, it will only be credible to those
on the inside who are studying it. If we are spending time and
money attempting to make UFOlogy credible to the outside it is a
total waste of time and money to attempt to go there.

 >She ranks right up there with Joe Firmage... one hit
 >wonders in
 >the field of Ufology who take and don't give anything back.

Many in the UFO field probably think giving something back is
writing a book once ever 1-2 years. Others feel that something
should be done more regular.

Linda generally cranks 3-7 articles a month. Now that service is
available by subscription... like my MUFON Journal and IUR to
mention a few. I would call that giving something back just
like I would call David Jacobs two books, Jerry Clark's UFO
Encylopedia and numerous articles, Kevin Randles numerous books
and articles, Stan Friedmans numerous books and articiles, and
Wendy Connors audio recordings and files giving something back.


Cheers,

Robert








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   Mar > Mar 3

                      Stephen Bassett Cosmic Candidate

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net>
Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 15:01:06 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 11:52:01 -0500
Subject: Stephen Bassett Cosmic Candidate


To: Jim Hightower <lowdown@newslet.com >
(Editor of 'The Hightower Lowdown' newsletter):

Here's my nominee for your grassroots congressional-candidate
contest as announced in the February 2003 issue:

When Montgomery County, Md., resident Stephen G. Bassett ran (as
an independent) for Congress last fall, he had no illusions
about winning the election. Basically, he was making a
statement: that Congress had failed to fulfill its obligation to
help release the Executive Branch's stranglehold on the truth
about UFO-E.T. reality -- a reality reflected by reams of FOIA-
  freed-up official documentation dating back to the forties.
Read all about it at his website:

http://www.x-ppac.org


Thank you for this opportunity to help Steve gear up for
additional challenges to the UFO-secrecy status quo.


  -- Larry W. Bryant






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               Kecksburg Petition CFI Press Release - 03-03-03

From: Leslie Kean <lkean@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 02:50:20 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 12:10:03 -0500
Subject: Kecksburg Petition CFI Press Release - 03-03-03


CFI - Coalition For Freedom Of Information

Press Rlease

Monday, March 3, 2003


For further information:
Contact: Ed Rothschild (202) 879-9317
            Leslie Kean (415) 250-9791


SCI FI Channel and Coalition for Freedom of Information to
Support Petition for Federal Investigation into Kecksburg
Incident


Greensburg, PA - Lending their voices for a federal
investigation into the 1965 crash of an object in Kecksburg, PA,
representatives of SCI FI Channel and the Coalition for Freedom
of Information (CFI) today began a three-day visit to the
Kecksburg area and announced their support for a local petition
drive (www.signpetition.com) spear-headed by long-time
investigator Stan Gordon.

"By signing a petition, citizens here and elsewhere in the state
can help put public pressure on their congressional delegation
to request an investigation by the U.S. General Accounting
Office," said Larry Landsman, Director, Special Projects, SCI FI
Channel.

Something was seen in the sky and landed in the woods near
Kecksburg on December 9, 1965. Since then, the U.S. government
denies that anything fell - despite testimony from citizens who
saw the partially buried object in the woods and statements from
firefighters, reporters, dozens of witnesses, and newspaper
accounts confirming the military response to the area.

Noting that "Kecksburg is one of those historic, unexplained
incidents that requires a full public accounting," Leslie Kean,
an independent journalist and research director of CFI, said
that she has recently filed Freedom of Information Act requests
to numerous federal agencies and military services seeking
records from their involvement.

"This case is more than 37 years old," said Kean. "It's high
time for our government - whether it's the U.S. Air Force or
NASA or any other agency - to come clean and tell the public
what they know."

SCI FI Channel, which is supporting public advocacy efforts to
gain release of secret government records on unidentified aerial
phenomena, believes the government may be withholding
information about UFO activity. "On the one hand, government
agencies state that UFO sightings are not a threat to national
security, but nearly in the same breath they say that they
cannot reveal information on national security grounds. They
can't have it both ways," said Landsman.


The initiative has the support of John Podesta, President
Clinton's former chief of staff. "I think it's time to open the
books on questions that have remained in the dark, on the
question of government investigations of UFOs," Podesta said at
a news conference in Washington last October, launching the CFI
Freedom of Information effort.

Both Landsman and Kean say that the Pennsylvania petition asks
the right questions:

  - What landed near Kecksburg, PA on December 9, 1965?

  - Where did the orders come from for Army, Air Force, and NASA
    personnel to be dispatched to the scene?

  - Why did military personnel brandish weapons at local citizens
    to prevent the object from being observed?

  - What was the importance of the object that caused the military
    to rapidly respond to the Kecksburg area?

"Getting answers to these questions should be at the core of any
investigation. But to get such an investigation requires the
public to demand it," said Stan Gordon, who will be distributing
and collecting petitions through his office in Greensburg.

-----

Petition to Pennsylvania Congressional Delegation for
Investigation of 1965 "Kecksburg Incident"

Whereas, on December 9, 1965 something fell from the sky and
crashed in the woods near Kecksburg, Pennsylvania;

Whereas, for the past 37 years, citizens of Westmoreland County
and surrounding communities have attempted to find out what it
was;

Whereas, military personnel from the Army and Air Force as well
as NASA, were identified at the scene by eyewitnesses, including
news reporters and firefighters, as involved in the search, and
military vehicles were observed at or near the impact site;

Whereas, some witnesses reported seeing an object on the ground
prior to the arrival of the military;

Whereas, some witnesses state that a large covered object was
transported out of the area that night on a military flat bed
tractor-trailer truck;

Whereas, some witnesses report being stopped by armed U.S.
military officials who prevented them from approaching the
landing site;

Whereas, after all these years, our government continues to
insist that nothing was found and so far has refused to disclose
all the records on the incident;

Whereas, the Cold War is long gone;

And whereas, the public has a right to know what its government
discovered and answers to the following questions:

  -  What landed near Kecksburg, PA on December 9, 1965?

  -  Where did the orders come from for Army, Air Force, and NASA
     personnel to be dispatched to the scene?

  -  Why did military personnel brandish weapons at local
     citizens to prevent the object from being observed?

  -  What was the importance of the object that caused the
     military to rapidly respond to the Kecksburg area?

Therefore, be it resolved that we, the undersigned, believe that
the time has come to get answers from the Air Force, Army, and
NASA and hereby petition members of the Pennsylvania
Congressional Delegation to request an investigation by the U.S.
General Accounting Office that will obtain answers to these and
other questions related to the December 9, 1965 event.


For more background, see www.freedomofinfo.org . Please see
www.signpetition.com for a copy of the petition and information
about the petition drive.








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   Mar > Mar 3

                           Psychological Analysis

From: Keith Chester <projectbluebook@erols.com>
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 08:28:22 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 12:54:20 -0500
Subject: Psychological Analysis


Hello List,

In August of 1949 a technical report entitled "Unidentified
Flying Objects Project "GRUDGE" was written by Lt. H.W. Smith
and Mr. G.W. Towles. The Project was issued Number XS-304. This
report was designed to cover the method of investigating
unidentified flying objects. Several agencies and individuals
served as consultants in this investigation, including Dr.
Hynek, Dr.Valley, and especially Dr. Paul Fitts-Chief of the Air
Material Command's Aero-Medical Laboratory.

Dr. Fitts examined 212 incidents to determine what psychological
explanations could be given to UFO cases. His memorandum report
was completed on April 29, 1949 and his assessment was as
follows, " It is concluded by the writer that there are
sufficient psychological explanations for the reports of
unidentified flying objects to provide plausible explanations
for reports not otherwise explainable. These errors in
identifying real stimuli result chiefly from inability to
estimate speed, distance and size."

Anyway, I have been conducting research at the National
Archives, College Park, Maryland, 2-3 times a month since 1999.
My specific goal has been to investigate the historical records
of the Foo-Fighters. I'm not studying the Project Bluebook files
because I feel these records have been reviewed fairly
thoroughly.

During a 1999 visit I was looking through some records and
uncovered an interesting letter that may or may not be
significant to the already established understanding of the UFO
project histories- Sign, Grudge, Bluebook. The letter dated
March 10,1950 was written by Lt. Colonel Robert H. Blount,
Chief, Medical Research Division, Office of the Surgeon General,
USAF Material Command and was sent to Dr. Robley D. Evans, MIT,
Cambridge,Massachusetts.

Lt. Colonel Blount enclosed a copy of Dr.Fitt's Memorandum
Report on the Psychological Analysis of Reports of Unidentified
Aerial Objects. He explained that the report was written almost
a year ago and was originally classified as "Confidential", but
recently the classification was changed to "Restricted",
therefore enabling Dr. Robley to use for his information.
Furthermore, Lt. Colonel Blount stated that he had learned a new
report was in the process of being published and it will be
classified as "Top Secret". He further stated that he wasn't
sure what the contents of the new report would contain, but
would attempt to get a copy as soon as possible.

The last paragraph of the letter was very interesting and was as
follows,

"It has recently been rumored that one of the so-called flying
saucers crashed in Mexico; however, the details are somewhat
bizarre at this moment."

After finding this letter I immediately sent copies to Wendy
Connors, Jan Aldrich, and Barry Greenwood, all who I have the
greatest respect for their historical research efforts.

I find the letter very interesting since apparently Dr. Fitt's
may have written two reports. One may have been for lower USAF
channels of command and another for the higher echelon.

The comment about the crash in Mexico is intriguing. Did Lt.
Colonel Blount mean the rumored flying saucer crash in Mexico
was in fact the Roswell, New Mexico incident? If my memory
serves me correctly, there is the a possibility that a captured
Nazi V-2, being tested during this time,strayed into Mexico,
causing quite a stink with the Mexican government . Lt.Colonel
Blount in his position was most likely not in the know about
either event.

Dr. Evan's did respond to Lt. Colonel Blount on March 24,1950,
and thanked him for the copy of the memorandum Report of
Unidentified Aerial Objects. He stated that he read the report
with great interest and was returning it to him as requested. He
also said he hoped he had the opportunity to discuss the newer
report the next time they saw each other.

I wanted to share this information with those who were
interested in this post in which adds more insight to an
incredible time in UFO history.


Keith Chester











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   Mar > Mar 3

                  Re: Another Abduction Question - Gonzalez

From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm@arrakis.es>
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 11:44:47 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 13:00:20 -0500
Subject: Re: Another Abduction Question - Gonzalez


 >From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:31:44 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Another Abduction Question

<snip>

 >There's also Eddie Bullard's statistical study of which memories
 >abductees have consciously, and which characteristically only
 >emerge under hypnosis. I think it was published in IUR.

Dear Greg,

Thank  to the help of one "off-lister" (it really surprised me
that nobody in this List, besides Larry, has almost ever helped
me in my inquiries) I finally locate the Bullard's statistical
study you mentioned.

It was: "Hypnosis and UFO Abductions: A Troubled Relationship"
JUFOS, New Series, Vo. 1 (1989), pp. 3-40.

In itself, it is an expanded version of what Bullard wrote in
his FUFOR paper. We can discuss his comparisons and findings,
but here I prefer to question his data:

Let's center (as he did) in what he called "well-investigated,
high quality" cases. He found that in his 104 cases of this
kind, "30 do not depend on hypnosis and 74 do".

Which are those 30 cases?

3 are what he himself called "psychic abductions".

3 refer to the amazing case of Gaynor Sunderland, more properly
described (as Jenny Randles did) also as "psychic abductions".

At least 3 refer only to recurrent dreams and/or "flashbacks". 1
witness had not any conscious recall, just "impressions" using
Sprinkle's pendulum.

1 witness (Sgt. Moody) only remember his abduction after using
self-hypnosis.

Among the rest of cases appear some Brazilian ones completely
outside the "standard" version: La Rubia was allegedly abducted
by uniped robots; Silveira was conducted to an underground
cavern full of hairy small men; even Vilas Boas presents curious
variations.

I do not have information at hand about several of the cases
mentioned (#103, #109, #113, #127, #161 & #200) but the
conclusion is clear.

In short, there are very few accounts of a conscious abduction,
recalled from beginning to end.

To me, "conscious recall" should be employed only when the
witness never forget the incident (his going inside a UFO), even
though there could be "gaps" in his/her story.

If the witness do not remember going (or staying, let's allow
the so called "doorway amnesia") inside a UFO conciously, just
dreams and/or "flashbacks" before entering hypnosis, we can
never know for sure what he/she is recalling.


Luis R. Gonzalez







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   Mar > Mar 3

                      Exeter NH's 'UFO Kid' Dead At 55

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 14:13:27 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 14:13:27 -0500
Subject: Exeter NH's 'UFO Kid' Dead At 55

Source: The Portsmouth Herald, New Hampshire

http://www.seacoastonline.com/news/03022003/news/15408.htm


By Colleen Lent
news@seacoastonline.com

The death of longtime Seacoast resident Norman Muscarello, 55,
this past week undoubtedly rekindled discussions of his UFO
sighting on Sept. 3, 1965, which made national headlines.

One can almost hear excerpts of conversations around the dinner
table or coffee shop counter.

"Isn't he the kid who was chased by the space ship down by
Dining's Farm?" or "There was a book about him by some reporter"
or "Muscarello is the `Close Encounters' guy."

The account of Norman's teen-age real-life experience was akin
to a scene from a Steven Spielberg or George Lucas film. It soon
became fodder for several articles by John G. Fuller, appearing
in Reader's Digest, Look and True, before it was developed into
the book "Incident at Exeter" by the same author.

Though Norman is best known in the Granite State as the
extraterrestrial guy, his younger brother Thomas Muscarello of
Exeter remembers him as an ordinary guy who did extraordinary
things to help his mother and siblings during challenging times.

While juggling funeral arrangements and the management of his
business, Auto Details in Exeter, this past week, Thomas took
some time to talk about his brother, recalling vignettes of his
life dating back to his adolescent years, the infamous UFO
sighting, and three tours in Vietnam. Providing details of past
events, some dating back more than 40 years, wasn't easy for
Thomas. However, the essence of his brother's character is
something Thomas said he'll never forget.

In the 1950s, Delores Ann (Walker) Muscarello, a single mother
of three children, found herself scrambling for a means to
provide for her family. It was during a time when a divorced
working woman didn't fit the cultural norm.

"My mom did as much as she could," Thomas said. However, the
money she earned from cleaning houses wasn't enough to pay for
even the basics on Maslow's hierarchy of needs - food, shelter
and clothing.

"It was kind of tough for us," Thomas said.

Thus, at the age of 10 or 11, Norman started a paper route,
making the rounds on foot before going to school each day. The
pre-teen gave his earnings to his mother. Thomas said this act
of responsibility was incredible in itself. However, the fact
that Norman actually started his winter days at 3 a.m. to load
the furnace with coal, ensuring his mother and siblings were
warm when they woke, was even more remarkable.

"It's like he stood up and said, `This family is going to make
it,'" Thomas said.

The family of four did make it, despite the fact that testing
the elasticity of a dollar was as routine as brushing one's
teeth.

"But we were happy," Thomas said.

After all, some things like a Sunday family stroll to the United
Methodist Church on Government Street in Kittery didn't require
a dime.

As the family settled into different homes in New Hampshire,
listening and imitating instrumental music greats of the time,
such as The Ventures, was Norman's favorite pastime. Norman's
affinity for chords and keys sprouted during his adolescent
days.

Thomas said the only time Norman used any of his paper route
earnings for a personal expense was when he signed up for guitar
lessons. After a mere six classes, Norman started teaching
others to play and eventually formed the Rippers, a Winnacunnet
High School band, playing at school dances and town events.

"There was a time you'd think he was Chet Atkins," Thomas said.
"His fingers used to bleed."

When Norman became engaged as a teen-ager, Thomas and his mother
wrote to The Ventures asking the group for a small personalized
token to give Norman as a wedding present.

"We really didn't expect any response," Thomas said.

But, the band replied with a congratulatory telegram - something
Norman treasured his entire life, despite the fact that his
fianc=E9e cozied up to another guy the day before Norman left for
service in the Navy. ormed the Rippers, a Winnacunnet High
School band, playing at school dances and town events.

Perhaps Norman's voluntary enlistment in the service stemmed
from his years as a member of the Boy Scouts of America,
alongside Thomas. Earning the Order of Arrow honor from the BSA
wasn't an easy feat, according to Norman's sibling. Thomas
recalled Norman emerging from a rigorous weekend survival test
without a mental or physical scratch.

"That followed in his service record," Thomas said.

As 18-year-old Norman was preparing for boot camp in the fall of
1965, he sold his car and was hitchhiking to his Exeter home
from a friend's house. As he was ambling along Route 150 in
Kensington at about 2 a.m., he noticed pulsating lights from a
UFO, which moved toward him and then disappeared without
warning.

As the teen-ager ran, stumbling along the way, the UFO
reappeared, casting a red glow on a neighboring house. Norman
pounded on the home's door, to no avail, before running back to
the street to hail an approaching motorist to take him to the
Exeter Police Station.

Upon sharing his story with dispatcher Scratch Toland, Norman
quickly learned that similar sightings had been called in from
Hampton Beach and Raymond.

"It wasn't anything to do with alcohol or drugs," Thomas said,
recalling his brother's story.

As Eugene Bertrand, an officer on duty at the time, accompanied
Norman to the site, a second officer - David Hunt - pulled up in
a cruiser to inquire about the commotion, and followed them.

"Reality was, this was witnessed by two policemen," Thomas said,
explaining that the UFO appeared for a third time.

Nevertheless, Thomas said his brother was showered with heckles
and snickers from passers-by after the incident made news
headlines across the country.

"There were a lot of skeptical people out there and that's
understandable," said Thomas.

There were some individuals who weren't guffawing. Thomas said
he doesn't remember his brother being interviewed by officials,
one with a metal case handcuffed to his wrist, from Pease Air
Force Base immediately after the experience, as some print
accounts state. However, the younger Muscarello does recall a
stern officer from Pease knocking on the door and then offering
Thomas and his sister Theresa 50 cents and instructing them to
run to the store next door.

Meanwhile, the unidentified man, armed with "Project Blue Book,"
took notes as he questioned their mother about her eldest son's
experience. Norman was in Michigan, preparing for training as a
naval officer.

"They were very, very upset with what happened," Thomas said.
The barrage of phone calls from curious neighbors, reporters and
researchers began shortly after.

Thomas remembers waking up one evening to see a camera crew
outside the family's Front Street home in Exeter.

"Nobody would leave my mom alone," he said.

The inquiring entourage followed Norman to the Midwest where he
was bunking for basic training. As the number of unauthorized
personnel armed with cameras and microphones was beginning to
compete with the number of soldiers at the military training
site, Norman was told to shed the uninvited guests immediately.

"They threatened to kick him out," Thomas said.

In an attempt to get rid of the media and researchers, Norman
signed a host of waivers, not understanding the legal jargon in
fine print, which would allow his story to be told and retold
without any of the profits reaching him or his family.

"He didn't receive a penny," Thomas said. "They took advantage
of him."

The curious went away and Norman climbed aboard the USS Boston,
which would be the start of three tours of Vietnam from 1965 to
1969.

Finances were tighter than ever for the Muscarello family back
home. Thomas remembers the family's 1963 Mercury sitting in the
yard unregistered, thirsty for a gallon of gas and hungry for a
driver and passengers. There wasn't enough money for insurance
to put the car on the road. But when Norman returned home on
leave one day, he resolved the situation, and the family didn't
have to lug groceries home on foot anymore.

And then Norman was gone again. While he and his mother
exchanged letters back and forth, ink on paper didn't have the
warmth of an embrace or comfort of a smile.

"It wasn't like he was in another part of the country on
vacation," Thomas said with the kind of solemnity that
communicates the unspoken reality of the situation.

Norman did return from his first tour as a welder and gunner's
mate, only to sign up for a second. However, Thomas said his
brother's volunteering for a second round wasn't for an affinity
for the vibration of mortar fire or the ever-present uncertainty
of the next day. Thomas said Norman made the sacrifice to save
his brother from being drafted.

"`We should not be in there at the same time,'" Thomas repeated
his brother's words to the enlistment officer. "They don't want
to see family names wiped out," Thomas said. "It kind of
aggravated me. It was my turn. Then again, I understand why he
did it."

After the second tour, Norman longed for the routine of civilian
life in Exeter. But the Navy didn't release him from duty and he
served a third tour of Vietnam.

After his final honorable discharge, Norman returned home
without much fanfare. In 1980, he shared his 1965 UFO story with
Exeter High School students writing for the school's newspaper.

But for the most part, Norman led a quiet life, according to his
brother. He was an officer with American Legion Post. No. 32 of
Exeter and 27-year companion to Theresa Lockhart of Exeter, a
former co-worker at Alrose Shoe Co.

Thomas could count on a Thanksgiving feast, prepared by Norman
who often donned his Julia Child cap, much like his father
Angelo Muscarello, and often kicked everyone out of the kitchen.

"That was his territory and it was off limits," Thomas said. "He
made a mean spaghetti sauce."

Yet, Thomas noticed something was missing in his sibling's
spirit. Norman rarely picked up the guitar or listened to an
album. He didn't aggressively seek another job when the Alrose
Shoe Co went defunct.

"He wasn't quite the same person after Vietnam," Thomas said.

Perhaps those sipping coffee or beer and discussing Norman
Muscarello today will speculate and attribute his change to his
teen-age close encounter.

But for Thomas Muscarello, there is no guessing his brother's
character: Norman Muscarello was an exceptional brother, son and
veteran, he said.

"He always took care of me."


[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]






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   Mar > Mar 3

                             NARA-ing The Scope

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net>
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 02:59:47 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 13:46:09 -0500
Subject: NARA-ing The Scope


From:  National Archives and Records Administration
        8601 Adelphi Road
        College Park, MD  20740-6001

To:   Larry W. Bryant

Date:  February 19, 2003


Dear Mr. Bryant:

This is in response to your February 10, 2003 Freedom of
Information Act request (our reference number NW 22921) for
access to records in the custody of the National Archives and
Records Administration.  Your request was received in this
office on February 13, 2003.

The requested document, a four page letter from Walter Colby,
Director of Intelligence, AEC, to Admiral R. H. Hillenkoetter,
Director of Central Intelligence, dated February 24, 1949, has
been reviewed by the Central Intelligence Agency and
declassified in full.  A declassified copy is enclosed for your
benefit.

Regarding your letter of January 1, 2003, I am sorry to report
that it has not been delivered to this office and must conclude
that it has been misdirected.  However, based upon the
information you provided we were able to identify the correct
document, a two-page memorandum, dated 22 July 1949, for the
Executive Secretary, National Security Council.  This document
has also been reviewed by the Central Intelligence Agency and
declassified in full.  A declassified copy is enclosed for your
benefit.

This concludes the processing of your request.

Sincerely,


HERBERT J. RAWLINGS-MILTON
Supervisory Archivist
Special Access/FOIA Staff

Enclosures

[LWB Note:  Has Amerika's great postal service contracted some
sort of non-delivery virus when it comes to processing snail-
mail from certain activist citizens?  Worse, has some NARA
official arbitrarily chosen to waylay that mail upon its very
arrival at College Park?  As you grope for a suitable answer,
please file this "mystery memo" solution in your folder marked
"MJ-12 NON-Smoking Guns":  (1)  the (formerly) censored words of
the two-page memo of July 22, 1949, consist of "covert and
overt" (found in a few places throughout the text), along with
the expressions "confidential funds; travel abroad; storage and
warehousing for clandestine materials"; "clandestine matters";
"covert activities"; and "(except special equipment for
clandestine use)"; (2)  the (formerly) censored passages of the
four-page letter of Feb. 24, 1949, pertain to AEC organizational
concerns about how best to achieve (and maintain) closer CIA
liaison with the Atomic Energy Commission.  Thus, the lack of
any MJ-12 reference within either document will send researchers
Robert and Ryan Wood back to their archival grab bag for another
try.  Stay tuned.]







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   Mar > Mar 3

                 Re: Question About Missing Time - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 13:34:49 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 13:50:25 -0500
Subject: Re: Question About Missing Time - Maccabee


 >From: Martin Shough <mshough@parcellular.fsnet.co.uk>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 19:58:18 -0000
 >Subject: Re: Question About Missing Time

 >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 02:06:32 -0500
 >>Subject: Question About Missing Time

 >>Hello All,

 >>I had always associated the term 'missing time' with the memory
 >>blackouts that heavy-drinking alcoholics or drug addicts often
 >>report. What has happened to me and to many others is 'something
 >>>related/correlated, to a state of intoxication.

<snip>

 >>Does anybody know if the UFO/abduction kind of missing time has
 >>ever been reported under 'other' circumstances? According to my
 >>own admittedly limited knowledge, other than in abduction
 >>reports, I have never before heard of 'this kind' of missing
 >>time.

<snip>

 >No, the phenomenon of missing time is not unique to UFO
 >abduction reports. It occurs in several parallel folkloric
 >traditions around the world, for example abductions by the
 >fairies etc. But neither is it specific to abductions, folkloric
 >or ufological. Psychologists have long recognised it as a
 >distinct type of attention anomaly. For example psychologist
 >Graham Reed, Professor of Psychology at York University (Canada)
 >devoted three pages to it in "The Psychology of Anomalous
 >Experience", Hutchinson University Library 1972, p.18.


 >[Begin Quote]

 >"THE TIME-GAP EXPERIENCE
 >After a long drive the motorist will quite commonly report that
 >at some point on the journey he 'woke up' to realise that he had
 >no awareness of some preceding period of time. People often
 >describe this, with some justification, as 'a gap in time', 'a
 >lost half-hour' or 'a piece out of my life'. The strangeness of
 >the experience springs partly from the 'waking up' when one is
 >already awake..."

 >[End of Quote]


 >Arguably from the point of view of the psychologist the
 >distinctive feature of your experience and others like it would
 >be not so much the character of the material that is later
 >suspected or 'discovered' to have filled the time-gap but the
 >character of the high-arousal high-stress trigger situation (of
'>seeing the UFO') because becoming alarmed and alert is
 >definitely not symptomatic of the 'workaday' time-gap
 >experience. Probably the psychologist would try to see it as a
 >kind of fugue state, where loss of conscious attention is also
 >experienced.

Of course, I have had the "road memory lapse" or "road hypnosis"
  occur a number of times over the years and half million or so
miles driven. However, I had a "missing time" experience m any
years ago which is unusual if not unique.

I was playing the piano in a piano contest when I was 18 years old....
long before "missing time."  I had practiced Beethoven's
Appasionata Sonata for months previous and was allowed to play
only 5 minutes of it, which is essentially half of the first movement.
THere is a convenient breakpoint in the sonata and I planned to
stop there.

After I walked on stage and sat down to play I realized the piano was
stiff and I didn't like that, but there was nothing I could do.
My fingers were working "properly" and, thinking about it afterwards,
I could remember getting to the bottom of the first page... and then
nothing.  To this day, and, more importantly, immediately afterward,
I had no recollection of whether I played or not through most of the
first half of the first movement.

My next conscious thought was as I was starting the page before I was
to end.  Suddenly I thought... "where am I? I have to end this."
At this point I knew where I was in the music and I played to the ending
point and then stopped abruptly.  For what seemed like minutes, but must
have been only a few seconds., there was no applause (as there had been
immediately after the presentations by previous contestants).  I mumbled
something to the effect that I had to stop there because of the time limit.
Still no applause. Immediately I was scared because I couldn't recall
playing anything after the first page until suddenly a "woke up"?
Where they not applauding because I had left out several pages of
music? I awkwardly walked off stage as the applause started, belatedly.

Now, in this case I wasn't abducted...  yet I certainly had a
conscious case of "missing time."  ...time which is still
missing.

However, I know that I wasn't abducted in front of the audience
(unless they were all abducted at the same time).  As the time
to award the prizes for the winners I assumed that I would get
nothing, even thought one of the other contestants said what I
played sounded like what he had heard on a professional
recording.

I just did not believe that I had played the whole section of
the music correctly until the announcer called me for second
prize.  I found out that I lost by 1/4 of a point to the winner
because of "poor stage presence."

Well, my stage presence would have been OK... if it hadn't been
for (gulp) missing time!!!

And, by the say, I have not been regressed to find out whether
or not I played the piece correctly during my "missing time."


The above discussion is not intended to detract from UFO related
missing time experiences, such as portrayed in by "abduction "
book. IMHO something is REALLY happening there and its not
all in the mind!







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   Mar > Mar 3

             N.H. Case Called 'Flagship' In UFO Abduction Annals

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 14:16:35 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 14:16:35 -0500
Subject: N.H. Case Called 'Flagship' In UFO Abduction Annals

http://www.seacoastonline.com/news/03022003/news/15409.htm

N.H. Case Called 'Flagship' In UFO Abduction Annals

By Richard Fabrizio
rfabrizio@seacoastonline.com

PORTSMOUTH - We are not alone.

Betty Hill sits in her living room next to a bust of one of the
little green men who abducted her and her late husband Barney
more than 40 years ago.

"Junior," as she calls the bust, is tattered and aged -
  particularly from a fall from a podium during one of her talks
in St. Louis years ago. But Betty's story remains an intact and
startling glimpse inside America's fascination with UFOs and
aliens.

The Hills' story was documented in John Fuller's best-selling
book "Interrupted Journey." Fuller learned of the Hills while
researching his book "Incident in Exeter," about Norman
Muscarello, who saw a UFO in Exeter in 1965. (See related
story.)

Muscarello, an Exeter resident, passed away this past week.
Betty said she didn't know him well, but was sorry to hear of
his death. The pair were kindred members of a galactic club.

"Interrupted Journey" became a made-for-TV movie in 1975. James
Earl Jones played Barney and Betty was played by Estelle
Parsons. Film critic Leonard Maltin rated the film as above-
average and called it "absorbing" and "fact-based." He did say
it lacked action though.

Barney passed away in 1969. Betty, who turns 84 in June, has
told their story across the world: from the Soviet Union to
England to the United States and Canada. The tale remains
something out of this world.

The Hills were returning from vacation in Canada on Sept. 19,
1961. They headed toward Portsmouth on Highway 3 through
Lancaster in the state's western panhandle. They saw a moving
light in the sky as they approached Indian Head.

Barney stopped the car but left the engine running and got out
to look at the object with binoculars. He saw "5 to 11 figures
moving behind a double row of windows" of some kind of craft.

As the object closed, Barney ran back to the car exclaiming,
"They are going to capture us!" The couple fled in the car at
breakneck speed. Betty said the object moved directly over the
car and they heard a loud noise - like the sound of a tuning
fork - and then they were drowsy.

They awoke some two hours later and found themselves driving
near Ashland, about 35 miles south of Indian Head and about a
30-minute drive from Lancaster. Betty said they continued their
drive, feeling uneasy and unsure.

The Hills reported their experience to officials at Pease Air
Force Base the day after. They were later interviewed by the
National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena.

Soon after, Betty began having nightmares about that night. A
group of "men" stood in the middle of the road and stopped their
car. Betty and Barney were taken aboard a disk-shaped craft and
examined through hair and skin samples.

Betty says the aliens did not all look alike. They were 4=BD- to
5-feet tall. "I'm not too accurate on their height, but they're
rugged. They're not skinny guys."

Anxiety led the Hills to seek help from Dr. Benjamin Simon, a
Boston psychiatrist who specialized in treating amnesia through
hypnotherapy. Simon's help revealed many details of their
encounter that matched each other's closely as well as Betty's
nightmares.

Betty no longer struggles to deal with her abduction.

"No, no, no," she said in her State Street home. "Actually, when
I was on board the craft I recognized the importance of what was
happening. I said to the leader, `I know you're not from this
planet. Where are you from?'"

Through Dr. Simon's treatment, Betty drew a "star map" showing
her alien abductors' origin. An astronomical investigation years
later produced a controversial match between her map and a
cluster of previously unknown stars near two stars called Zeta
Reticuli.

John Schuessler, international director of the Mutual UFO
Network (MUFON), said Betty started the abduction phenomena.

"Others may say they were abducted before, but she popularized
it," Schuessler said. "I have a lot of respect for Betty."

Schuessler said the Hills' willingness to go to Dr. Simon and
outside the UFO Network, brought credibility.

Dr. Simon's professional opinion of the Hills' abduction was
that it was a product of their collective imaginations. He
concluded "people do not necessarily tell the factual truth
while they are under hypnosis - all they tell is what they
believe to be the truth."

Schuessler said Dr. Simon's conclusion doesn't mean the
abduction didn't happen. "A lot of people didn't want to believe
Betty, wanted to believe it couldn't be true. But she has never
wavered on her story."

The Hills' story was closely scrutinized. Betty was given a lie
detector test by F. Lee Bailey on live national television. One
question was: Is it true that you were shown a star map while
you were on board a UFO in the White Mountains on Sept. 19,
1961? Another asked: Is this a hoax in any way?

Betty said at one point Bailey asked if she would tell a lie so
they could get a reading. Her belief in the abduction remains
total today.

"If they don't believe it, then I don't know who they are," she
said. "I go to the grocery store and people come up to me and
tell me their sightings. Around here, it's difficult to find
someone who hasn't had at least one sighting or knows someone in
their family who has."

Through March 2001, there have been 143 UFO sightings reported
over the years in Rockingham County, by far the most in the
state's counties. Seacoast sightings were reported over the
years in Barrington, Durham, East Kingston, Exeter, Greenland,
Hampton, Newfields, North Hampton, Portsmouth, Seabrook and
Stratham.

New Hampshire MUFON reports three recent sightings around the
state including a Fremont man who saw a white orb of light on
Jan. 16, 2002. The others were in Pittsburg in 2002 and in
Colebrook in 2000.

Peter Geremia, director of New Hampshire MUFON, said the notion
of the state being a hotbed of UFO activity is a perception.

"We've had times when we had many more sightings than others,
but so have many other places around the world," said Geremia, a
resident of Rye. "It's all about where and when the phenomenon
starts."

But Geremia says New Hampshire has a rich history of UFO
sightings going back to Fuller's books on Muscarello and the
Hills.

"The books by Fuller probably helped make our cases a little
more famous than some of the other ones," he said. "I generally
say the Hill case is the flagship of abduction research cases."

Betty quite seriously says her last sighting was during the
Portsmouth Christmas Parade this past January when a craft with
three red lights on top hovered over her neighborhood.

"I assumed they were watching the Christmas parade. Even now
they're out here flying over Great Bay. Basically they follow
the rivers."


[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]






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   Mar > Mar 3

                  Re: Question About Missing Time - Shough

From: Martin Shough <mshough@parcellular.fsnet.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 10:59:59 -0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 14:28:45 -0500
Subject: Re: Question About Missing Time - Shough


 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 18:21:28 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Question About Missing Time

 >>From: Martin Shough <mshough@parcellular.fsnet.co.uk>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 19:58:18 -0000
 >>Subject: Re: Question About Missing Time

<snip>

 >>Arguably from the point of view of the psychologist the
 >>distinctive feature of your experience and others like it would
 >>be not so much the character of the material that is later
 >>suspected or 'discovered' to have filled the time-gap but the
 >>character of the high-arousal high-stress trigger situation (of
 >>'seeing the UFO') because becoming alarmed and alert is
 >>definitely not symptomatic of the 'workaday' time-gap
 >>experience. Probably the psychologist would try to see it as a
 >>kind of fugue state, where loss of conscious attention is also
 >>experienced.

 >Again, I don't think 'fugues' apply to fight or flight
 >responses/ states. A 'fugue' is more like what was described
 >above. A driver hypnotized by the road after a long trip
 >suddenly realizes that he/she has 'drifted off.' That's nothing
 >like what happened to me.

John

As a point of interest fugue states are not at all a matter of
'drifting off'. They can involve periods of missing time,
complete loss of memory and identity, or even the creation of a
completely new identity. Typically the fugue is precisely a
fight-or-flight response (flight chosen over fight) and is
triggered by extreme stress. Individuals can execute
extraordinarily complex planning in the process of 'closing
down' one life and fleeing to another without apparently being
consciously aware of it at all.

I'm not saying this is directly connected with your experience.
I just point out that there is a spectrum of dissociative states
ranging from mild 'road hypnosis' to full-blown fugue that
exhibits some similar symptomatology. Whatever the trigger for
it your striking example of an attention anomaly is presumably
exploiting responses which are psychically 'hard wired' and can
be observed operating in other contexts, sometimes similar
(folkloric abductions) and sometimes not.


Regards Martin








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   Mar > Mar 3

                                   Call Up

From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 11:01:08 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 14:31:33 -0500
Subject: Call Up


Errol, List -

My National Guard unit has been activated so that I am now full
time in the Army. Although I enjoy the enchanges on UpDates, I
do not have the time to read the messages and respond so I need
to unsubscribe at this point. I'm hoping to resubscribe in a few
weeks (And for Stan who once asked if I have ever been on active
duty as an intelligence officer... the answer then, as it is
now, Yes.)


Thanks for all the interesting debates.

KRandle








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                Re: he 'Beyond' Web Site - 03-03-03 - Mantle

From: Philip Mantle <philipmantle@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 12:40:22 -0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 17:06:57 -0500
Subject: Re: he 'Beyond' Web Site - 03-03-03 - Mantle


March 3rd, 2003.

The BEYOND web site:

http://www.beyondpublications.com

has now been up-dated.

On the site this month there are a wide range of articles on a
whole host of topics including:

- My alien doctor ? By Donald Ware
- The rest of the A-10 story, By Donald Ware
- Were humans biologically engineered by ET's, By Don Veron
- Elegance upon the Earth, By Byron Lebeau
- Seeing the light-An exercise in consciousness, By Brian Allan
- Riddle of the Orbs, By Philip Carr
- Angels of Berwick Law, By Brian Allan
- UFOs over Yeisk, By Paul Stonehill
- UFOs the spiritual aspect

Plus: Books review and news items.

WWW.BEYONDPUBLICATIONS.COM

If you would like to submit an article please feel free to do so
direct to me at: philipmantle@hotmail.com


Regards,

Philip Mantle.








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               Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Goldstein

From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 01:14:51 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 17:27:50 -0500
Subject: Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Goldstein


 >From: John Auchettl <Praufo@aol.com>
 >Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 10:06:39 EST
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Subject: Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism

 >>From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 05:53:39 +0100
 >>Subject: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism

 >>Come take a look,http://home.earthlink.net/~lrgoldner/yockey.html

 >I read your link to Loren Goldner, "An American National
 >Bolshevik" - 'Review of: Kevin Coogan. Dreamer of the Day.
 >Francis Parker Yockey and the Postwar Fascist International'.

 >And, sorry Josh, that German food is clogging that 57 year-old
 >"Grossraumordnung" head you think in.

 >Have another read, no "Dark Side Of Postmodernism" in Kevin
 >Coogan's book - just a distillation of "orthodox Yockeyism".

 >An interesting review, but I think your Pink Floyd Santa Monica
 >days have gone LSD on you.

 >Miko will have to bring you home, very soon.

 >Regards,

 >John Auchettl

 >PS: Question: - What year and Class did you Grad from at Army
 >Aviation Center, Ft Wolters, Texas before you went to the 175th
 >Assault Helicopter Company?


My fellow Listerions,

This is a lengthy response to John Auchettl's post to me on this
List. Please bear with me as I feel I must respond in depth.


Mr Auchettl,

Your post makes me wonder why you seem to have some things
against me that cause you to write in such a manner. I posted a
link that may be controversial but why did you not speak to the
references to postmodernism and what you think about that
philosophy? You made one small statement regarding the subject
of the book review but you then brought up a bunch of personal
"points" to, as I see it, discredit me. For an unfathomable
reason you seem to have been tracking personal aspects of my
life in order to slam me at this point. Why? What does it have
to do with UFOs? What is your beef with me? Just what is your
problem that extends beyond the subject of my post? Why did you
post such low level stuff on this list?

I have been aware of your research for many years and at times I
have felt in disagreement to some of your work. I haven't posted
to you that I disagreed with some aspects of your work because
they were in areas of UFO studies that were not a priority to me
and I suppose I thought "well, that is how he sees it" and, as
you know, many people in this field think differently from each
other.

I can't remember if we ever met in person, as that would have
been some years ago, either at UFO Conferences during the 1980s
or at MUFON LA in the 1990s. I don't remember if I ever posted
you directly on this list, as that goes back to 1996 and I
haven't tried to check through the archives. What is your beef
with me that caused you to make snide digs at me in your post?

I'll give you some background of the "text" that caused me to
post the link I titled "the Dark Side of Postmodernism". I admit
I have had difficulty with that philosophy, especially Colin
Bennet's form and the example Greg Sandow posted. In the 1980s
my former wife was a cultural anthropologist whose specialty was
Indonesian dance mythology. She fell in with the postmodernist
wing at her University, was reading Mircea Elidad, and we ended
up in some heated disagreements over that philosophy. There are
some areas of postmodernist thought that I fundamentally
disagree with to this day.

Yes, I have been in Berlin, Germany for three years. In your
remark about Miko are you referring to the Japanese Miko, the
daughter of God in their religion, or the fact that I came over
here with a musical artist stage named Miko? I make my own
decisions but one of your weird statements "Miko will have to
bring you home very soon" really makes me wonder how you think.
You posted my age and also made the remark "I think your Pink
Floyd Santa Monica days have gone LSD on you". If I knew you I
could take that as some form of sarcastic humor but your PS
about my military experience is not humor but an attempt to
discredit me. I will speak further about that PS later in my
post.

I came across the review of Coogan's book on Yockey while doing
a network search not about postmodernism but as part of my study
of the history of antisemitism in Germany that led to my
original family line being killed because they were Jewish. It
also enabled the Nazis to take 27 people named Goldstein from my
present immediate Berlin neighborhood and murder them in camps.
With all the trouble in the middle east I am disturbed that not
only is antizionism being promoted but the facts that the
majority of the countries' media and their governments are
promoting full antisemitism, characterising all Jews as the
devil, and that Israel and the Jews in the east coast of America
control the agenda of the US government. Still today, in all of
Palestine's elementary schools little kids are being taught that
all Jews are devils. The same for Iraq, Syria, Saudi Arabia,
etc. For example, If I had an interest in visiting Saudi Arabia
I would not be allowed into the country because I am a Jew.

That kind of philosophy is the same as that of the Nazis and I
am studying the effects of the antisemitic propaganda that the
Grand Mufti of Jerusalem preached by radio to the Palestinians
from the foreign propaganda office of the Nazis here in Berlin.
I am now studying the  ex-Nazis who went to the middle east
after WWII and worked for various repressive governments. If you
go to the radio Islam website you will see them feature an
interview they praise with an ex-Nazi General who moved to the
middle east after WWII and spread his hatred. It is no wonder
that in the Arab countries "Mein Kampf" and "The Protocols of
Zion" are best sellers today in the Arab countries. I don't see
how even a peace agreement between Israel and Palestine will
ever lead to peace among the people now that so many have been
thoroughly brainwashed with hatred of all Jews, especially with
today's neo-Nazism. That even shows on Jeff Rense and his
promotion of Ernst Zundel, a leading holocaust denier and neo-
Nazi in Canada, and his promotion of antisemitism beyond his
anti-Israel bias.

I am taking a lot of space writing about this issue here but you
can see it is a high priority for me and that is the context in
which I found that review. I posted it because I thought it
illustrated some parallels between the radical right and radical
left wings, especially in postmodernist cultural relativism,
which allows tyrants to be left alone and does not make clear
distinctions between good and evil. I also posted it because
Colin Bennett opened a postmodernist can of worms in his posts
on this List. I responded to Greg Sandow's postmodernism post
and I also wonderd if we were getting off the topic of the List
with this subject. Unless it is shown to have a realistic direct
bearing on serious UFO studies people can be on their own to
research postmodernism and come to their own conclusions.

Now for what you have been really after, the subject of your PS,
which seems posed to try to catch me in some form of lie. I am
going to answer you not becuse I could care about what you think
of me but to the other Listmembers whom I respect on UFO
UpDates. You could have respectfully posted me privately and I
would have provided you with information, including records,
etc. But you wanted blood to be drawn and you composed your post
on the List. In it you said nothing that had any discussion of
what I posted but you got real personal in an ugly way with me.
I will answer your PS and if that gets you very excited then
feel free to satisfy yourself over pictures of greys in the
nude. :-)

I was inducted into the Army on January 31, 1966 for the Warrant
Officer Pilot program. I had been drafted and I guess because of
test scores and the fact that I had started flying lessons when
I was 16 and had kept flying until drafted, they told me about
the pilot program. I had dropped out of college and I did not
know that any branch of the service allowed you to become a
pilot without a degree.

When I finished boot camp I thought I would get sent to Ft.
Wolters to primary flight training. Instead they decided to send
me to Helicopter mechanic school at Ft. Rucker, Alabama. They
said that they were expanding the facilities at Fort Wolters,
were behind schedule, and the mechanic training would be good
knowledge as a pilot. After that program they did send me to
Fort Wolters. I did my primary flight training and then was sent
back to Fort Rucker for secondary training.

I had come from San Francisco, had smoked pot in 1965 ( never
while flying) and had become friends with a folk rock band named
the Sparrow. They had changed their name to Steppenwolf, were on
their bus on tour and were going to head for a concert at
Daytona Beach, Florida. We had been close friends (I mixed
their sound before being drafted) and they called me to ask
about doing a concert at Fort Rucker and visiting me. I was able
to get a concert arranged and I looked forward to seeing them.

We did the concert but unknown to me some sergeant had seen me
smoke pot that was offered me by the band behind the stage.
After the concert I went on their bus for the concert in
Florida. Outside the base I decided to show those guys the
National Boll Weevil Monument. We were having a good time until
the police appeared in mass. It was a dry county and the police
insisted on searching the bus for illegal beer. They found none
and then tried to say that they had seen the face of the guitar
player on a wanted list and made us go down to the station. Of
course the guitarist was not on any wanted list and they were
just harassing the hippies in the band. They called the base
about me and Barney Fife ended by letting us go. When I got back
from the weekend my c/o wanted to see me. He had the police
report and it turns out the sergeant had also reported me. John,
you must be breathing deeply and panting with excitement.

I had almost graduated, we were doing helicopter gunnery then. The
c/o felt my conduct was unbecoming for a future officer. I pleaded
that I had a fine record in flight training and all the other classes
but he said he did not think I was suitable for graduation. The offer
was that I could resign from the program and get orders to go to
Vietnam as an SP/5 rank helicopter mechanic.

I arrived in Nam and I was assigned to the 175th Assault
Helicopter Company at Vinh Long. It turned out they were looking
for a crewchief to fly on the lead helicopter of Captain Arnold.
I flew almost every day in combat and had a machine gun to fire.
The aircraft commander let me often pilot the helicopter from
the copilot's seat because I had gone through flight training.
The copilot liked to go back and fire my machine gun. This was
officially unauthorized but Capt. Arnold was a great guy. If you
can locate him he will confirm that.

I ended up with the Air Medal with 14 Oak Leaf Clusters (the
same as 15 times being awarded the medal). I also received the
Bronze Star with an extra V device for valor when, on the ground
in the Tet Offensive, our field was overrun by the enemy and I
played Rambo, charging the bunkers the enemy had taken, saving a
lot of soldiers, and driving the enemy back until a reserve
force showed up to defeat them. After Vietnam I was a classroom
instructor in Huey instruments and flight controls back at good
ole Ft. Rucker, next to Ozark, Alabama. I was honorably
discharged and went back to school.

John, are you happy now? You got me on something. You must be
overjoyed. Remember those pictures of nude grays and go have
fun. If you want to play FBI with me to further satisfy yourself
my army serial number was RA13988116. In the 70s I legally
changed my first and middle name from Norman Henry to Josh
Gabriel Goldstein (I had hated kids teasing me with the "Norman"
song). John, if you want to be a pest you can look up the name
records of California. You can get my military records and do a
whole background check on me. You will find I have never
received any charges beyond traffic tickets.

John, I don't know why you put that stuff about LSD, Pink Floyd,
and Santa Monica in there. I will proudly say that after the
service I was involved in mixing music with some bands of my
choosing. I can proudly say that back in the 70s I gladly took
LSD with Pink Floyd at the same time they did. We had a great
time, as did millions of fans who would take LSD at their
concerts, and at home listening to the records. I kept a clear
perspective in myself, perhaps because I was brought up the son
of a prominent psychiatrist. Back in 1965 it had still been
legal and was used in therapy by some psychiatrists and
psychologists. I had done two exploratory sessions with my
father in his office. He had also taken it under the guidance of
another doctor. We had big arguments with Timothy Leary about it
being openly provided to the public, who could be of any mental
state when they first took it. We advocated clinics with trained
and supportive guides instead.

That was then and this is now. I haven't taken any psychedelic
in many years. I've never taken an addictive drug. After the
service I went on to graduate from the Quaker City School of
Aeronautics, restored treasured aircraft and spacecraft at the
National Air and Space Museum, got two college degrees, and for
10 years kept getting reelected as the Chairman of the Board of
a major ocean protection organization where we were instrumental
in creating the National Marine Sanctuary on the California
coast. I also produced and some noted music albums, raised two
kids who share a great love, etc.

In 1981 I started having nightmares from Vietnam. I had left my
first appointment with a Veterans Administration psychologist
when a reckless driver caused an accident which caused me to be
in a coma for one month and caused the below knee amputation of
my crushed right leg. They tried to save it for a couple of
months but it was dying.

I have had severe phantom limb pain ever since then with
numerous surgeries to try to resolve it. That includes 2
unsuccessful neurosurgeries because the crushed nerve pain is in
my sensory cortex.

Now that they have developed the functional MRI to show the
exact live location of the problem and have had success I plan
on returning to California to be evaluated for a new
neurosurgery later this year. It will be paid for by the VA,
from whom I receive a 100 percent service connected disability.
I worked in therapy, became solid in my sense of self, and I
have received much praise in how I have handled adversities,
stayed happy in myself and have maintained a productive life.

In 1994 a famous film composer I recorded passed away and a
record company had cheated me out of a large amount of money. I
decided to pursue a more reliable profession. I declared
bankruptcy with my music business and lost my music studio. I
decided on a new direction and went to the West Coast Detective
Academy in North Hollywood and graduated at the top of the class
of both the regular and advanced courses. John, if you are still
hungry you can call them, ask for Wayne or Barbara, and they
will confirm the above.

In 1996 my budding detective career came to a sudden halt when I
became very sick. It turned out I had received hepatitis C from
a blood transfusion following the auto accident in 1981. Since
then I have lived in varying states of energy, fatigue and
sickness. There are new antivirals in trials and I hope that
within the next couple of years there will be a cure and a
vaccine. There are periods in which I don't post to the list
because I am too fatigued to type.

As for how I am viewed in the UFO community I have been involved
with, feel free to contact Don Waldrop, the former director of MUFON
LA, Vince Ullenkot (sic), Southern California MUFON State Director,
and Virgill Staff, Northern California MUFON State Director. I am
sure they will have good things to say about my work with them.

John, this is a lengthy reply to someone I don't even know and a
somewhat off topic subject for this List. Since you appeared to
question and demean my character on this List I felt I would
give a better picture for you to judge me from. I laid myself
bare and even "confessed" to you and this List. Are you
satisfied yet?

To me, what you posted on the List showed a distinctive lack of
character on your part.


Josh










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   Mar > Mar 3

                            Sightings In Brasilia

From: Thiago Luiz Ticchetti <thiagolt@opengate.com.br>
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 14:07:15 -0300
Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 18:05:13 -0500
Subject: Sightings In Brasilia


Hello List,

It seems that Brasilia is going by a great UFO wave.

That is the third sighting in less than 1 month. The other two
occured in February 4th and 8th, 2003, when objects were seen
less than 30 meters of the witness, and in one of those cases
the object had 3 meters diameter and was hovering in the air few
meters of the ground.

Yesterday I received a on-line sighting form from Mr. Aurezio
Galo, 33 years old, inhabitant of Gama East's city (distant 45
km of Brasilia). The sighting happened on March 1st at 22:15.
Mr. Aurezio was looking to the sky searching for stars when he
saw a strange light point flying slowly. He then got his
binoculars to observe better and saw that the light point was
actually a round object with red, orange and white colors around
it. It seemed that the object pulsed and rotated in its axis at
the same time. Mr. Aurezio called his older son, Pedro Luiz, 9
years old, to see the UFO also. Both observed the movement of
the object until it disappeared from sight. The event lasted
about 4 minutes.

According to the witness, the object did not emit any sound nor
alter its speed. The thing that got their attention was that
the UFO moved up and down as if it was hung by an elastic.

We, from the Brazilian Entity for Extraterrestrial Research (EBE-
ET), started our investigation and soon you will have the
conclusions.


Thiago Luiz Ticchetti
Brazilian Entity for Extraterrestrial Research
Vice-President (EBE-ET/RAB)
International Coordinator UFO Magazine Brazil

www.ebe-et.com.br








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                Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Oplatka

From: Laurel Oplatka <calabash2003@webtv.net>
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 11:26:03 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 18:15:32 -0500
Subject: Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Oplatka


To Greg, Josh and Listers,

To those who regard Colin Bennett as some sort of rococo pedant,
I submit that the reading of his truly fine book, "Politics of
the Imagination" will provide an understanding of the depth and
scope of this superb thinker re: Fortean and Post-Modern issues
which of course in and of themselves address the limitations of
the mechanistic approach re:UFO and all "things" paranormal.


Best Regards,

Laurel








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                     New Police 9-1-1/UFO Tapes Obtained

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 14:31:17 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 18:17:21 -0500
Subject: New Police 9-1-1/UFO Tapes Obtained


EBK, List,

On August 9, 2002, persons in Butler County, Ohio and Franklin
County, Indiana reported a UFO in the evening skies. The object
was seen from several vantage points across state lines and was
a police concern for an extended duration.

While officials at the Butler County, Ohio dispatch agency were
swift and professional in getting the police tapes from their
agency to UFO researchers, a communications director at the
neighboring Franklin County 9-1-1 office advised researcher
Donnie Blessing that they would not release their 9-1-1 data
without a 'court order.' Knowing that all such 9-1-1 material is
'public record,' UFO researchers again approached the Franklin
County 9-1-1 Center with a written request and after a 6-month
delay, the tapes would finally be released.

And so today, with the release of the material, the police 9-1-1
tapes of this unusual incident are available on the internet and
can be freely heard at http://home.fuse.net/ufo/ufotape.html


Thank you,

Kenny Young








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                            Re: Call Up - Shevlin

From: Donald Shevlin <donnieshevlin@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 13:49:26 -0600
Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 18:20:53 -0500
Subject: Re: Call Up - Shevlin


 >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>))
 >Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 11:01:08 -0500
 >Subject: Call Up

 >My National Guard unit has been activated so that I am now full
 >time in the Army. Although I enjoy the enchanges on UpDates, I
 >do not have the time to read the messages and respond so I need
 >to unsubscribe at this point. I'm hoping to resubscribe in a few
 >weeks (And for Stan who once asked if I have ever been on active
 >duty as an intelligence officer... the answer then, as it is
 >now, Yes.)


Good Luck Kevin and God bless for a safe return..

Donnie Shevlin









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                            Re: Firmage - Connors

From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 10:58:05 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 18:13:44 -0500
Subject: Re: Firmage - Connors


 >From: Will Bueche <willb3d@hotmail.com>
 >To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 19:43:33 -0500
 >Subject: Firmage [was: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe]

 >>From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 04:07:52 -0700
 >>Subject: Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe

<snip>

 >>She ranks right up there with Joe Firmage... one hit wonders in
 >>the field of Ufology who take and don't give anything back.

 >Woah. Before you need to buy more knives to stick in people's
 >backs, take that one back.

 >Firmage gave millions of dollars to support serious research
 >into alien encounters, as well as into alternative energy. Not
 >to mention trying to develop better science education methods
 >for children (in a largely unsuccesful venture...not many people
 >besides him wanted to invest in children's futures, apparently).

<snip>

You miss the point. I didn't see Mr. Firmage give CUFOS or FUFOR
a serious influx of needed financial help... and they are still
here long after Mr. Firmage took a powder.

Let's see... did Mr. Firmage give a new computer to Fran Ridge so
he could continue to put together a top notch research site
called "NICAP"? Nah. Richard Hall, Jan Aldrich, Loren Gross,
myself and a host of others chipped in to save that important
research resource... which is still going long after Mr. Firmage
took a powder.

How about Barry Greenwood's work? You know him, don't you? He
gave us Just Cause until old Purple Robes bastardized it by
taking it back. Barry gives us UFO Historical Review and
preserves the largest collection of UFO articles and videos in
existence... He's still going strong after Mr. Firmage took a
powder and didn't get zip from Joe.

Then there's Richard Hall. Ah, yes, Richard got some money for
writing an article or two, but did Mr. Firmage donate to the
Major Donald E. Keyhoe Archives to ensure they were preserved
and updated? Nah. But, Richard is still trying desperately to
maintain and update the DEK and is still doing so after Mr.
Firmage took a powder.

Remember Project 1947... was Joe Firmage impressed enough to
help Jan Aldrich with travel expense or pay for a server for the
website, etc.? Nah. Jan continues to spend out of his own pocket
and gives everyone great new documents, etc.

Ever hear of the SIGN Historical Group? Yeah. A bunch of people
got together to form a group to help preserve and ensure the
history of Ufology in all of its forms. You see, legitimacy of a
science comes from its history and track record... not just its
research. Old Joe was asked if he would help this group at least
be able to publish a monograph or two... but Joe took a powder
after hitting the UFO speaker's circuit.

Ya know, I even asked old Joe Firmage through an intermediary if
he would be willing to buy me a measley reel to reel tape
recorder so I could continue the audio history preservation
project. Got lots of promises and that "Joe knows your good work
and promises to do something....." but old Joe was too busy on
the UFO lecture circuit getting his 15 minutes of fame. So, I
continue on with the project and spending my eating money to do
it for the benefit of everyone now and in the future who is
interested in Ufology.....

Yeah, you're probably right. Joe Firmage probably got hit hard
by the tech stock downturn. But, he could have helped the
"little people" who actually do the research, etc. when he had
the chance. He gave a lot of lip service of how great all of us
were as his great "works" in Ufology lays in a heap and nobody
pays any attention.

But the real researchers and historians who keep all of you
supplied with new documentation, etc., are still shelling out of
their pockets and didn't give a damn if the stock market
collapsed.

That's the point and the difference between Joe Firmage, a one-
shot wonder, and us schlocks that are still here after the
glitter of Firmage's show faded.

Oh, yeah. You didn't mention the two books I co-authored. As a
matter of fact, I haven't made so much as a dime from Ufology...
but I can guarantee you one thing... I'm one of the few in this
field that has brought new knowledge, insight, documentation,
etc. into this field in the last 5 years. I think I've tried to
be generous too, but feel bad that I can't be more so.

So, Will, cry about poor Joe Firmage in somebody else's beer.


Wendy Connors








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                           Re: Firmage - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 17:02:13 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 18:23:41 -0500
Subject: Re: Firmage - Stanford


 >From: Will Bueche <willb3d@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 19:43:33 -0500
 >Subject: Firmage [was: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe]

 >Firmage gave millions of dollars to support serious research
 >into alien encounters...

Pray tell us, when, to WHOM (or, to what organizations), and in
what amounts, Firmage gave those millions of dollars for
research into "alien encounters"? And, what is meant by "alien
encounters"?

If you're right, I fear he may have lacked wisdom at how to use
his money in such a cause, because we surely have not heard (at
least on this List) of any 'million dollar results' in studies
financed by Firmage, nor have I even heard rumors of such.

So, Will, please inform us if you have knowledge specific enough
as to constitute evidence of ufologically benign (meaningfully
productive) heavy-weight contributions by Firmage. I'm sure we'd
all find it interesting. Some may await the results with baited
breath, but I'm not holding mine.

Unfortunately (pun intended), I doubt he gave such money to
serious, deserving and needy, potentially productive
instrumented studies of anomalous sky phenomena or objects, such
as Project Hessdalen or it's Italian counterpart. Whether or not
'UFO encounters' constitute alien encounters, per se, the kind
of hard data thus gained might still shed light upon at least
the radiative component(s) of objects or phenomena commonly
called UFOs, but from what I've heard of Firmage, I suspect he'd
go, instead, for what might be called the more "Gee Whiz!" side
of 'UFO Studies', where money could be easily and quickly
wasted.


Thanks,
Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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                      Volker Spielberg E-mail Address?

From: Pat Robinson <Respond Via Moderator>
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 13:47:12 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 18:49:57 -0500
Subject: Volker Spielberg E-mail Address?

[Non-Subscriber Post --ebk]


Hi,

I am an old partner of Volker's and have lost his email
address... could you please forward his address to me.? (if you
have it...)

Thanks a lot!

Pat Robinson
Watchpocket Publishing Co.








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                 Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Clark

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 17:58:08 -0600
Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 18:56:00 -0500
Subject: Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Clark


 >From: Laurel Oplatka <calabash2003@webtv.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 11:26:03 -0800 (PST)
 >Subject: Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism

 >To those who regard Colin Bennett as some sort of rococo pedant,
 >I submit that the reading of his truly fine book, "Politics of
 >the Imagination" will provide an understanding of the depth and
 >scope of this superb thinker re: Fortean and Post-Modern issues
 >which of course in and of themselves address the limitations of
 >the mechanistic approach re:UFO and all "things" paranormal.

I, too, recommend the book. It's wonderfully thought-provoking
and very, very funny. Watching much of the response to Colin
Bennett on this List, I get the clear sense that many are
missing his splendid sense of humor, which Fort himself would
have appreciated.


Jerry Clark








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                 Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Sandow

From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com>
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 12:12:38 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 18:07:39 -0500
Subject: Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Sandow


 >From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 04:17:22 +0100
 >Subject: Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism

 >But to get closer to topic I would like to know from you how you
 >personally relate postmodern deconstruction with the serious
 >study of the UFO phenomenon.

It would only be useful for studying the cultural aspects of
UFOs. And that, in fact, has been done, as I forgot to mention
in my earlier post. Jodi Dean, a political science professor,
wrote a book called Aliens in America. She looked at the
cultural meaning of UFO belief, finding it wonderfully
subversive. And that got her viciously attacked in a cover story
in the New York Review of Books, probably the most prestigious
academic publication in America. Jodi wasn't the main subject of
the review. She just came in for a hard sideswipe, in the
context of something else. Her crime, the reviewer thought, was
that she didn't say UFOs were nonsense.

Postmodern deconstruction has no place in the factual discussion
of UFOs. Jodi Dean, to judge from a conversation I had with her
once, would be the first to agree. Her book, by the way, would
be tough reading for anyone not wholly committed to postmodern
academic writing (and I'm one of those "anyones").

I'm not committed to the animal essay, either. It just was a
handy example I had on my computer. Don't judge postmodernism by
it. Read Susan McClary or Edward Said.


Greg Sandow










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                            Re: Call Up - Connors

From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 12:46:32 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 18:19:29 -0500
Subject: Re: Call Up - Connors


 >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
 >To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 11:01:08 -0500
 >Subject: Call Up

 >My National Guard unit has been activated so that I am now full
 >time in the Army. Although I enjoy the enchanges on UpDates, I
 >do not have the time to read the messages and respond so I need
 >to unsubscribe at this point. I'm hoping to resubscribe in a few
 >weeks (And for Stan who once asked if I have ever been on active
 >duty as an intelligence officer... the answer then, as it is
 >now, Yes.)

You stay safe, Kevin. Thank you for all you do. Our thoughts and
prayers are with you and all our brave men and women Patriots
who keep us safe and secure.


Wendy Connors








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                 Re: Stephen Bassett Cosmic Candidate - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 22:08:54 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 18:25:09 -0500
Subject: Re: Stephen Bassett Cosmic Candidate - Hall


 >From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 15:01:06 -0500
 >Subject: Stephen Bassett Cosmic Candidate

 >To: Jim Hightower <lowdown@newslet.com >
 >(Editor of 'The Hightower Lowdown' newsletter):

 >Here's my nominee for your grassroots congressional-candidate
 >contest as announced in the February 2003 issue:

 >When Montgomery County, Md., resident Stephen G. Bassett ran (as
 >an independent) for Congress last fall, he had no illusions
 >about winning the election. Basically, he was making a
 >statement: that Congress had failed to fulfill its obligation to
 >help release the Executive Branch's stranglehold on the truth
 >about UFO-E.T. reality -- a reality reflected by reams of FOIA-
 >freed-up official documentation dating back to the forties.
 >Read all about it at his website:

 >http://www.x-ppac.org

 >Thank you for this opportunity to help Steve gear up for
 >additional challenges to the UFO-secrecy status quo.

 >  -- Larry W. Bryant

Larry,

Don't you mean "Comic Candidate" as in total joke? Vast
conspiracies exposed and free energy for all?


  - Dick

P.S. My lawyer will see your lawyer in tennis court.








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                 Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Hansen

From: George Hansen <gphansen2001@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 16:25:29 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 07:14:04 -0500
Subject: Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Hansen


 >From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com
 >Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 09:05:07 -0500
 >Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 09:16:56 -0500
 >Subject: Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Sandow


Greg Sandow, ever naive (being a major proponent of the Linda
Napolitano [Cortile] case), asserts that postmodernists "found
their work on a careful foundation of fact."

Is Sandow completely oblivious of the "inventions" of Michel
Foucault?

Colin Bennett's postmodern analysis is particularly applicable
to ufology precisely because it calls attention to the blurring
of fact and fiction.

That same blurring is exemplified in the writings of
Greg Sandow when he promotes the Linda case!



George P. Hansen
The Trickster and the Paranormal
http://www.tricksterbook.com







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                  Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 00:15:43 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 07:16:17 -0500
Subject: Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Hall


 >From: Laurel Oplatka <calabash2003@webtv.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 11:26:03 -0800 (PST)
 >Subject: Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism

 >To Greg, Josh and Listers,

 >To those who regard Colin Bennett as some sort of rococo pedant,
 >I submit that the reading of his truly fine book, "Politics of
 >the Imagination" will provide an understanding of the depth and
 >scope of this superb thinker re: Fortean and Post-Modern issues
 >which of course in and of themselves address the limitations of
 >the mechanistic approach re:UFO and all "things" paranormal.

Laurel,

Sorry, but I read the same book and found it to be solipsistic,
vebose, and pretentious, claiming that there is no such thing as
consensual knowledge based on scientific methods and casually
invoking subjectivist viewpoints which cannot be justified in
any rational way.

Furthermore, what the hell exactly does "post- modern" mean? I
have not heard any definition. In this context, what does "pre-
modern" and "modern" mean? Or are we just playing with words and
claiming that, somehow "truth" (or whatever these post-
modernists substitute as a concept of what we should believe) is
obtainable through literary analysis, but not through scientific
method?


  - Dick







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                  Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 00:43:22 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 07:19:12 -0500
Subject: Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Hall


 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 17:58:08 -0600
 >Subject: Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism

 >>From: Laurel Oplatka <calabash2003@webtv.net>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 11:26:03 -0800 (PST)
 >>Subject: Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism

 >>To those who regard Colin Bennett as some sort of rococo pedant,
 >>I submit that the reading of his truly fine book, "Politics of
 >>the Imagination" will provide an understanding of the depth and
 >>scope of this superb thinker re: Fortean and Post-Modern issues
 >>which of course in and of themselves address the limitations of
 >>the mechanistic approach re:UFO and all "things" paranormal.

 >I, too, recommend the book. It's wonderfully thought-provoking
 >and very, very funny. Watching much of the response to Colin
 >Bennett on this List, I get the clear sense that many are
 >missing his splendid sense of humor, which Fort himself would
 >have appreciated.


Well, I always hate to disagree with Jerry Clark, for whom I
have great admiration both as a nonpareil analyst and historian
of UFOs, but also as an intelligent and articulate person on
political and social issues. But the only thing I find
"humorous" about Colin Bennett is his attempt to substitute
subjectivism for consensual reality and scientific method.

I was about to review Bennett's book for the Journal of
Scientific Exploration, but I had to recuse myself after
clashing with Bennett on this List to the point that anything
negative I might say would be taken as "sour grapes".

I was impressed by his biographical reporting on Fort, but not
at all by his anti-science rhetoric.


  - Dick









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                   Accounting For Pennsylvania's 'Roswell'

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net>
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 20:35:00 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 07:22:24 -0500
Subject: Accounting For Pennsylvania's 'Roswell'


[LWB Note:  I'm posting the following bulletin onto at least one
major newspaper's website's message board for all to read and
heed.  And I urge other readers to do likewise, using their own
language if they prefer.  If the GAO sleuths can investigate the
Roswell Incident, then they certainly can outdo themselves with
Kecksburg!]

== Accountability for Pennsylvania's '"Roswell' ==

UF-truth-seekers everywhere can rejoice in a brand-new milestone
for serious UFO research.  It consists of a citizens petition to
urge the Pennsylvania congressional delegation to request an
investigation by the U. S. General Accounting Office into what
happened (and why) on the night of Dec. 9, 1965, near Kecksburg,
Pa.

At the hands of some aggressive, rude, and menacing U. S.
soldiers dispatched to the scene of a UFO crash-landing in the
woods of that community, local residents found themselves cut
out of the equation as to what was to happen (and did happen) to
the retrieved craft.

Now, in this bold move to demand full accountability from our
government, those citizens and the entire Citizenry of Earth
have a final chance to help set the record straight.  To add
your signature to the petition, please visit the following
website:

http://www.signpetition.com/index.html

To the sponsors of this long-overdue initiative, I suggest that
they pursue two more tactics:  (1) place a few advertisements in
key Pennsylvania newspapers to announce the petition drive and
to solicit signatures therefor; (2) establish a "UFO-coverup-
Whistleblower Reward Fund" for all verifiable evidence leading
to the solution of the Kecksburg mystery.







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                          Info On 'Woolhouse Case'?

From: Diego Cuoghi <diegocuoghi@spamcop.net>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 01:12:55 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 07:25:17 -0500
Subject: Info On 'Woolhouse Case'?


In an Italian UFO-related newsgroup I read this excerpt from a
web page:

http://www.greys.mcmail.com/ufo.htm

"On 13 March 1993, Stephen Woolhouse saw something strange in
the sky above his house in Lancashire. He became a witness to
one of the world's most enduring mysteries. But, Stephen had one
advantage over most people who see UFOs - he had a video camera,
loaded with film, and ready to go."


But I have not found any web page with more information, or
pictures. Is there some documentation about this 'Woolhouse
Case' - or is it a legend?

Diego Cuoghi

--

http://www.diegocuoghi.com







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                  Sightings During Conflict? [was: Call Up]

From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 20:55:45 -0300
Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 07:31:05 -0500
Subject: Sightings During Conflict? [was: Call Up]


 >From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
 >To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 12:46:32 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Call Up

 >>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
 >>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 11:01:08 -0500
 >>Subject: Call Up

 >>My National Guard unit has been activated so that I am now full
 >>time in the Army. Although I enjoy the enchanges on UpDates, I
 >>do not have the time to read the messages and respond so I need
 >>to unsubscribe at this point. I'm hoping to resubscribe in a few
 >>weeks (And for Stan who once asked if I have ever been on active
 >>duty as an intelligence officer... the answer then, as it is
 >>now, Yes.)

 >You stay safe, Kevin. Thank you for all you do. Our thoughts and
 >prayers are with you and all our brave men and women Patriots
 >who keep us safe and secure.

Wendy and Kevin:

It is widely known that during wars and small conflicts, UFOs
are seen over the involved areas. It happened in the 1st and 2nd
World Wars and many others. I remember 1982, when the Falkland
(Malvinas) Island war broke up just on the southern cost of
Argentina. Lots of UFO reports where filed by civilian and
mainly military, from both sides. After the war was over,
however, very little info about the sightings was available to
the public. Some Argentinian UFO researchers have tried hard to
have the docs released, but none of the governments that ruled
the country after the war gave them.

Some other wars had the same thing going on, such us Gulf War,
back a decade ago. Civilian researchers living in areas close to
the conflict reported strange lights. Of course, when the tons
of reports are filtered, most of them turn out to be only jets
in nocturnal operation, bombing the places. But a few incidents
remained unexplained. Actually not very few. I wonder if are we
going to see the same thing happening during the next conflict
with Iraq, as it is inevitable and could start any minute.

Is there anyone on UFO UpDates who could elaborate more about it
and someone who has reports from the Gulf War sightings?


A. J.









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                  Re: Another Abduction Question - Denzler

From: Brenda Denzler <bdenzler1@email.msn.com>
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 20:13:53 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 07:33:03 -0500
Subject: Re: Another Abduction Question - Denzler


 >From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm@arrakis.es>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 11:44:47 +0100
 >Subject: Re: Another Abduction Question


 >In short, there are very few accounts of a conscious abduction,
 >recalled from beginning to end.

 >To me, "conscious recall" should be employed only when the
 >witness never forget the incident (his going inside a UFO), even
 >though there could be "gaps" in his/her story.

 >If the witness do not remember going (or staying, let's allow
 >the so called "doorway amnesia") inside a UFO conciously, just
 >dreams and/or "flashbacks" before entering hypnosis, we can
 >never know for sure what he/she is recalling.

Luis,

I have been collecting survey data on those who have (or claim
to have had) UFO experiences. Here are some of my results.
Please note that I do not select my respondents. Anyone who
feels that they are an abductee or experiencer is free to
respond.

79% of my survey respondents (n=223) report that they have never
been hypnotized at all for UFO-related issues.

13% of my respondents say that they recall significant segments
of the events - as compared to just bits and pieces, only the
physical sensations preceding an event, etc.

23% say that they remember bits and pieces of the event.


Brenda Denzler
http://www.abductionproject.com

"War does not determine who is right;
it only determines who is left."







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                            Re: Firmage - Bueche

From: Will Bueche <willb3d@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 22:38:14 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 07:57:41 -0500
Subject: Re: Firmage - Bueche


 >From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 10:58:05 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Firmage - Connors

<snip>

 >Yeah, you're probably right. Joe Firmage probably got hit hard
 >by the tech stock downturn. But, he could have helped the
 >"little people" who actually do the research, etc. when he had
 >the chance.


He did. I was asked by Ray Standford in another post if I would
reveal how Firmage chose to distribute some funds. It is none of
your darn business. That concept seems to have evaded you. He
does not, or did not, have any obligation to give to anyone,
regardless of whether they've done good work or not.

 >He gave a lot of lip service of how great all of us
 >were as his great "works" in Ufology lays in a heap and nobody
 >pays any attention.

I have to differ with you there (that "nobody pays any
attention" to Firmage). While I've never heard of you, I have
heard of Firmage. That's no slight against you, that's just a
credit to how Firmage got wide exposure in the national press.
His ability to get into the media reached a great deal more
people than usual. They were talking about alien encounters in
fincial sections for heavens sake, reaching a different audience
(which I view as an important development). This was mostly
fate, of course, he didn't plan on being the sensation that he
was. But he lived up to the challenge. He spoke out when the
opportunity presented itself. He even spoke at the United
Nations (though he didn't include mention of aliens when he was
at the podium). And you resent him for this: For being himself?

I don't understand.

 >But the real researchers and historians who keep all of you
 >supplied with new documentation, etc., are still shelling out of
 >their pockets and didn't give a damn if the stock market
 >collapsed.

 >That's the point and the difference between Joe Firmage, a one-
 >shot wonder, and us schlocks that are still here after the
 >glitter of Firmage's show faded.

 >Oh, yeah. You didn't mention the two books I co-authored. As a
 >matter of fact, I haven't made so much as a dime from Ufology...
 >but I can guarantee you one thing... I'm one of the few in this
 >field that has brought new knowledge, insight, documentation,
 >etc. into this field in the last 5 years. I think I've tried to
 >be generous too, but feel bad that I can't be more so.

 >So, Will, cry about poor Joe Firmage in somebody else's beer.

Wendy, I'm not crying. It sounds as if you are though.

Does it really come down to such a petty matter? You're bitter
about what he decided to do with his own money, so you feel that
he's less honorable a man? Don't you understand that he is not
you? That he was free to do whatever the heck he wanted to do?
If you can't grok that concept... I just don't know. I just
can't see how you can presume to know what was best for him to
choose. That's offensive to me. I don't like it when beggars
presume that I'm supposed to give them a quarter, and it is no
better when it comes from a sensible adult. I should mention
that I'm pretty sure I make less money than most people here, so
this isn't about class. This is about not honoring another
person's decisions - more, it is about attacking someone not for
what they have done (which was courageous), but what you think
they should have done. Well guess what? That's not your call.







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                            Re: Firmage - Bueche

From: Will Bueche <willb3d@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 22:46:37 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 07:59:54 -0500
Subject: Re: Firmage - Bueche


 >From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 17:02:13 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Firmage - Stanford

<snip>

 >called UFOs, but from what I've heard of Firmage, I suspect he'd
 >go, instead, for what might be called the more "Gee Whiz!" side
 >of 'UFO Studies', where money could be easily and quickly
 >wasted.


And again, we have the heart of it. You're presuming to know how
best to make decisions that are in fact the purview of someone
else entirely -- someone other than yourself, who might have
different opinions than yourself. Have some humility, please.
Have some consideration for the fact that other people may have
a different course to plot than the one you'd have chosen for
him. "You're either with us or against us" makes as little sense
here as it does in the oval office.

See my reply to Ms Connors for why I am not answering your
question about what I know about Firmage's donations.







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                             Re: Call Up - Gates

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 00:05:13 EST
Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 08:02:53 -0500
Subject: Re: Call Up - Gates


 >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>))
 >Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 11:01:08 -0500
 >Subject: Call Up


 >My National Guard unit has been activated so that I am now full
 >time in the Army. Although I enjoy the enchanges on UpDates, I
 >do not have the time to read the messages and respond so I need
 >to unsubscribe at this point. I'm hoping to resubscribe in a few
 >weeks (And for Stan who once asked if I have ever been on active
 >duty as an intelligence officer... the answer then, as it is
 >now, Yes.)

Kevin,

Where ever you end-up going, be safe, be careful.


Cheers,

Robert









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                             Re: Firmage - Gates

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 00:14:57 EST
Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 08:04:53 -0500
Subject: Re: Firmage - Gates


 >From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
 >To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 10:58:05 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Firmage

 >>From: Will Bueche <willb3d@hotmail.com>
 >>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 19:43:33 -0500
 >>Subject: Firmage [was: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe]

 >>>From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 04:07:52 -0700
 >>>Subject: Re: An Open Letter to Linda Moulton Howe

 ><snip>

 >>>She ranks right up there with Joe Firmage... one hit wonders in
 >>>the field of Ufology who take and don't give anything back.

 >>Woah. Before you need to buy more knives to stick in people's
 >>backs, take that one back.

 >>Firmage gave millions of dollars to support serious research
 >>into alien encounters, as well as into alternative energy. Not
 >>to mention trying to develop better science education methods
 >>for children (in a largely unsuccesful venture...not many people
 >>besides him wanted to invest in children's futures, apparently).

 ><snip>

 >You miss the point. I didn't see Mr. Firmage give CUFOS or FUFOR
 >a serious influx of needed financial help... and they are still
 >here long after Mr. Firmage took a powder.

As I recall NIDS (not Firmage) gave money to CUFOS, FUFOR and
MUFON, along with a few other notable, quoteables, including
Linda Howe, as I recall.

<snip>

 >Oh, yeah. You didn't mention the two books I co-authored. As a
 >matter of fact, I haven't made so much as a dime from Ufology...
 >but I can guarantee you one thing... I'm one of the few in this
 >field that has brought new knowledge, insight, documentation,
 >etc. into this field in the last 5 years. I think I've tried to
 >be generous too, but feel bad that I can't be more so.

I would say that besides Wendy's contributions, a number of
other folks have brought knowledge, insight and documentation.
People like Jerry Clark, Mark Rodeghier, Tom Carey, Kevin Randle
Stan Friedman, Jan Aldrich, Fran Ridge, Peter Davenport, John
Schulser, Bruce Macabee, and a host of others who have
contributed in their own way... some received money for books
and articles, others have not.

Cheers,

Robert






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              Re: Kecksburg Petition CFI Press Release - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 00:56:05 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 08:07:50 -0500
Subject: Re: Kecksburg Petition CFI Press Release - Velez


 >From: Leslie Kean <lkean@ix.netcom.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 02:50:20 -0500
 >Subject: Kecksburg Petition CFI Press Release - 03-03-03

 >CFI - Coalition For Freedom Of Information

 >Press Rlease

 >Monday, March 3, 2003

 >For further information:
 >Contact: Ed Rothschild (202) 879-9317
 >Leslie Kean (415) 250-9791

 >SCI FI Channel and Coalition for Freedom of Information to
 >Support Petition for Federal Investigation into Kecksburg
 >Incident

<snip>

 >For more background, see www.freedomofinfo.org . Please see
 >www.signpetition.com for a copy of the petition and information
 >about the petition drive.

Hi Leslie or whoever is listening from CFI,

Is there a reason why _all_ the eggs are being put into one
basket? There are so many great UFO cases to choose from I'm
just curious, why Kecksberg to the exclusion of all the other
cases? Who voted Kecksberg to be the 'best case' for this
purpose?

If Kecksberg turns out to be the recovery of some stray Ruskie
bird, is there going to be 'another' petition over some other
'individual' UFO case? If so, 'who' does the choosing?

Just wondering.


John Velez






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   Mar > Mar 4

                  Re: Question About Missing Time - Shough

From: Martin Shough <mshough@parcellular.fsnet.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 08:55:15 -0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 09:55:45 -0500
Subject: Re: Question About Missing Time - Shough


 >From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 20:06:26 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Question About Missing Time

 >>From: Martin Shough <mshough@parcellular.fsnet.co.uk>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 19:58:18 -0000
 >>Subject: Re: Question About Missing Time

 >>"THE TIME-GAP EXPERIENCE
 >>After a long drive the motorist will quite commonly report
 >>that at some point on the journey he 'woke up' to realise
 >>that he had no awareness of some preceding period of time.
 >>People often describe this, with some justification, as 'a
 >>gap in time', 'a lost half-hour' or 'a piece out of my life'.
 >>The strangeness of the experience springs partly from the
 >>'waking up' when one is already awake..."

 >As one of those motorists who has had that experience - as I'm
 >sure most have [and there's also that period in the 60s,
 >actually the 60s - but that's another story] that experience is
 >not so much as a missing time episode, but missing recall of
 >details on the way to the destination. The journey which was
 >expected to take a half-hour still takes a half-hour. Not two
 >and a half hours, for example, for a trip that should only take
 >a half-hour - as is often reported by the abductees.

 >Or getting out of a vehicle, for example, for a couple of
 >minutes to observe an object which suddenly vanishes only to
 >discover when you got back in the vehicle that two hours of time
 >had elapsed for both yourself and your driver as told to me
 >recently by a retired army officer.

 >That's what has to be addressed.

Hi Don

The experience on which we were invited to comment was
the anomaly of having no recollection of any events during an
intervening passage of time. John Velez said:

[START QUOTE]
. . . When I got about 15 feet from my front door
(again) without _any_ sense of time having passed, I found
myself sitting bolt upright in my bed and the room flooded with
morning light.

One second it's night-time and I'm running for dear life
(half-out of my wits with fear) and the very next second (no
gaps) I'm sitting up in bed and it's morning. Hours of 'missing
time.'
[END QUOTE]

It seems to me you are wanting to distinguish 'missing time'
from 'missing recall of events that take place in time'. I don't
think this is necessarily valid.

The well-known 'road hypnosis' type of attention anomaly that
you and I are referring to is similarly described in terms of
missing time, but as Reed points out (reference as before) could
just as well be described as 'missing distance'. The way we
structure our experience means that the mind 'measures' the
anomaly in terms of time, but at root it is missing _events_,
i.e. the oddness of the realisation that nothing 'happened', in
the sense that a 'happening' is a record on the screen of
consciousness.

The point is that there is no way to define missing time
_except_ in terms of missing events. I imagine that the
connection between the sense of the continuity of 'self' - the
series of conscious records - and the sense of the subjective
passage of time, are profoundly connected. So this 'time gap'
experience seems to me to be the same thing in essence as what
John describes. This isn't the same thing as 'explaining' it and
doesn't mean that such an experience has to be trivial.

You say that a failure to register any conscious events during
some interval is not the same as experiencing an anomalously
telescoped interval of time. I'm not sure that we can
demonstrate how these are different things. Experimentally,
clinical psychologists know that the experience of duration is
strongly correlated to the numerical frequency of stimuli or
events (Cathy Reason would probably be able to give us chapter
and verse on this). If two people get out of a car to observe a
UFO and two subjective minutes pass although the clock says two
hours, then this is constructively equivalent to the absence
from their experience of all those clock-ticks which in the
'real world' are counting out the two hours.

This might be very important, but it is not the same as making a
statement about the time of physical processes, where 'time'
would be defined in terms of standard frequencies related to the
constant speed of light, say, or the constant decay-rate of a
radioactive isotope. If the rates of two such clocks, one
carried by the observers and one in the car, don't agree after
the experience then this is a statement about the time of
physical processes. Only in a case where there is such a
discrepancy between physical rates would it be clear that the
distinction you are arguing for is meaningful.

Even then it is not possible to dissociate the subjective
experience of duration from the experience of events.
Relativistic effects in physics express the idea that time for
the observer _is_ the sequence of 'clock ticks' that constitutes
experience for that observer. There is no way to define a global
time that is independent of who is experiencing it except by the
self-negating procedure of defining a common frame where there
are _no_ local-real events. The essence of relativity is that
clock rates become meaningful only because the universe emerges
pluralistically in the differentiation of the reference frames
of different possible observers. This is real 'time'. A physical
absence of real time is equivalent to the removal of this
differentiation between observers. The 'time' which results from
this theoretical procedure is the dimension of cosmic 'time' in
physics, an imaginary time which is technically spacelike and
has no connection to the psychological experience of duration.

 >Incidentally, you mentioned the same missing time having
 >occurred during encouters with fairies some centuries ago. Any
 >idea what these fairies were supposed to look like?

Well they don't have to look like anything, but the general view
was that they would adopt appearances from the expectations of
the viewer. Also, this isn't just 'some centuries ago' - but I'm
sure you're as familiar with the classic crossover literature as
I am (Passport to Magonia and all that). One fascinating source
of first-hand interviews with abductees and their families in
early twentieth-century rural Ireland is Lady Gregory's "Visions
and Beliefs in the West of Ireland". You find all the canonical
features of an abductee culture here. People, usually youths,
were 'taken' by the Gentry, odd lights and poltergeist-like
disturbances announced the presence of the Sidhe (short for aes
sidhe, Irish Gaelic for the 'people of the [fairy] hills'),
those who were 'away' reported seeing people they knew in the
'round houses' of the Sidhe to which they were spirited away,
those who antagonised the 'good neighbours' would be beaten,
left scarred with pinch-marks or paralysed (given 'the touch')
and animals too were used, sucked dry and discarded - it's all
there. But a fascinating thing is that an individual who is
'away' need not be physically absent, and in fact generally
isn't - the feverish or comatose thing left in his or her place
is believed to be a clever simulacrum but there is an
understanding that although the real person is 'away' the place
they have gone is not a location in what we'd call physical
space. This exposes an interesting awareness of the subtle
connection between identity and the continuity of conscious
experience.

One small point about clock rates and fairies. There was spate
of anomalous mushrooms associated with UFO-landings in the
1970s, mostly in Brazil and Argentina if I recall. These 'fairy
rings' of truly massive fungi would appear literally overnight,
sometimes along with 'scorched' grass etc. Anomalies of time
were also reported by CEII witnesses, as elsewhere. Accelerated
fungal growth and dead grass could be thought of as providing an
objective relativistic clock. I'm speaking slightly tongue-in-
cheek, but something like this would be needed to objectively
distinguish an objective clock-rate from the subjective event-
rate. Maybe fairy stories have something to teach us.


Regards,

Martin







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   Mar > Mar 5

                  Re: Question About Missing Time - Shough

From: Martin Shough <mshough@parcellular.fsnet.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 09:36:45 -0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 15:55:29 -0500
Subject: Re: Question About Missing Time - Shough


 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 13:34:49 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Question About Missing Time

 >>From: Martin Shough <mshough@parcellular.fsnet.co.uk>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 19:58:18 -0000
 >>Subject: Re: Question About Missing Time

 >>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 02:06:32 -0500
 >>>Subject: Question About Missing Time

 >After I walked on stage and sat down to play I realized the piano was
 >stiff and I didn't like that, but there was nothing I could do.
 >My fingers were working "properly" and, thinking about it afterwards,
 >I could remember getting to the bottom of the first page... and then
 >nothing.  To this day, and, more importantly, immediately afterward,
 >I had no recollection of whether I played or not through most of the
 >first half of the first movement.

Hi Bruce,

I have had a similar if slightly less dramatic experience from
time to time when performing in public. But in my case this has
been when becoming dissociated because the stress-level has been
too low - mechanical playing, bored and probably boring! The
musical equivalent of road hypnosis I suppose. Your experience
is interesting because of the presumably high level of stress
and alertness in a competition situation. What does this imply
about 'missing time' in an experience like John's I wonder? It
certainly appears as though there is a continuum of experiences
of distorted subjective time containing events of high and low
strangeness. It may not be easy, therefore, to define a
straightforward cut-off between anomalies which are UFO-related
and those which aren't

 >The above discussion is not intended to detract from UFO related
 >missing time experiences, such as portrayed in by "abduction "
 >book. IMHO something is REALLY happening there and its not
 >all in the mind!

I wouldn't necessarily disagree with you, with the _caveat_ that
"real" and "mind" and a lot of other words might end up getting
redefined in working out what is happening.


Regards

Martin Shough







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                           Gabe L. Valdez Address?

From: Sebastien Denis <Sebastien.Denis@ensg.inpl-nancy.fr>
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 11:27:14 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 15:57:21 -0500
Subject: Gabe L. Valdez Address?


Hi  the List,

Does anyone here have the address of former State Police officer
Gabe L. Valdez ?


Gratefully,

Sebastien Denis
France






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                Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Denzler

From: Brenda Denzler <bdenzler1@email.msn.com>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 08:05:49 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 16:00:36 -0500
Subject: Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Denzler


 >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 00:15:43 +0000
 >Subject: Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism

 >Furthermore, what the hell exactly does "post- modern" mean? I
 >have not heard any definition. In this context, what does "pre-
 >modern" and "modern" mean? Or are we just playing with words and
 >claiming that, somehow "truth" (or whatever these post-
 >modernists substitute as a concept of what we should believe) is
 >obtainable through literary analysis, but not through scientific
 >method?

 From *A Primer on Postmodernism* by Stanley Grenz:
Deconstructionists say that "meaning is not inherent in a text
itself...but emerges only as the interpreter enters into
dialogue with the text....Postmodern philosophers applied the
theories of the literary deconstructionists to the world as a
whole....Reality will be 'read' differently by each knowing self
that encounters it.  This means that there is no one meaning of
the world, no transcendent center to reality as a whole....The
central dictum of postmodern philosophy:  'All is difference.'
This sweeps away the 'uni' of the 'universe' sought by the
Enlightenment project.  It abandons the quest for a unifired
grasp of objective reality.  It asserts that the world has no
center, only differing viewpoints and perspectives....In the
postmodern world, people are no longer convinced that knowledge
is inherently good....The postmodern mind refuses to limit truth
to its rational dimension and thus dethrones the human intellect
as the arbiter of truth.  There are other valid paths to
knowledge besides reason, say the postmoderns, including the
emotions and the intuition.  Finally, the ppostmodern mind no
longer accepts the Enlightenment belief that knowledge is
objective..., because the universe is not mechanistic...but
rather historical, relational, and personal....The postmodern
worldview operates with a community-based understanding of
truth....They focus instead on what is held to be true within a
specific community.  They maintain that truth consists in the
ground rules that facilitate the well-being of the
community...."  (pp. 6-8).

For "Postmodernism as the End of Science," and a description of
postmodern science, see pp. 46-56.

Another excellent book on the topic -- very readable -- is
Walter Truett Anderson's *Reality Isn't What It Used to Be*.
  One of his interesting observations is:  "The conservative
indictment [of postmodernism] is correct, and yet the strategy
that logically follows from it -- to rebuild consensus [about
reality]... -- is doomed to fail."  (p. 4).


Brenda Denzler







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                            Re: Firmage - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 09:09:15 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 16:07:00 -0500
Subject: Re: Firmage - Kaeser


 >From: Will Bueche <willb3d@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 22:46:37 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Firmage

 >>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 17:02:13 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Firmage - Stanford

 ><snip>

 >>called UFOs, but from what I've heard of Firmage, I suspect he'd
 >>go, instead, for what might be called the more "Gee Whiz!" side
 >>of 'UFO Studies', where money could be easily and quickly
 >>wasted.

 >And again, we have the heart of it. You're presuming to know how
 >best to make decisions that are in fact the purview of someone
 >else entirely -- someone other than yourself, who might have
 >different opinions than yourself. Have some humility, please.
 >Have some consideration for the fact that other people may have
 >a different course to plot than the one you'd have chosen for
 >him. "You're either with us or against us" makes as little sense
 >here as it does in the oval office.

 >See my reply to Ms Connors for why I am not answering your
 >question about what I know about Firmage's donations.


Will,

You miss the point. Firmage's impact is non existant from the
perspective of most of us. His "ManyOne" project is certainly
not helpful to the field and will likely not be supported by any
of the major research organizations in its current form.

Are you aware of all the contact that he's had with researchers?
I'm not sure that you are, but I certainly could be wrong.

But in any case, the proof is in the pudding, so to speak.
Either he has impact or he doesn't.  Regardless of his bank
account, or his desire to back engineer alien technology, he
hasn't done very much for the field.

Of course, that's just an opinion and I certainly don't expect
to sway your beliefs.

Steve







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   Mar > Mar 5

                            Re: Firmage - Connors

From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 06:56:19 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 16:05:27 -0500
Subject: Re: Firmage - Connors


 >From: Will Bueche <willb3d@hotmail.com>
 >To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 22:38:14 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Firmage - Bueche


 >>From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 10:58:05 -0700
 >>Subject: Re: Firmage - Connors

<snip>

 >Yeah, you're probably right. Joe Firmage probably got hit hard
 >by the tech stock downturn. But, he could have helped the
 >"little people" who actually do the research, etc. when he had
 >the chance.


 >>He did. I was asked by Ray Standford in another post if I would
 >>reveal how Firmage chose to distribute some funds. It is none of
 >>your darn business. That concept seems to have evaded you. He
 >>does not, or did not, have any obligation to give to anyone,
 >>regardless of whether they've done good work or not.

No, it didn't evade me. I didn't and don't care how Firmage
distributes his money. I'm saying he blew into the field of
Ufology, used it for personal gain and making promises he didn't
keep. In other words, a one-shot wonder. Again, Firmage's
contributions to the field of Ufology are fluff and the majority
of people can't remember exactly what his major contribution was,
other than the publicity. Firmage is probably a nice guy. I never
met him, but that doesn't mean I'm ignorant of his blitz into
Ufology and the results.

 >He gave a lot of lip service of how great all of us
 >were as his great "works" in Ufology lays in a heap and nobody
 >pays any attention.

 >>I have to differ with you there (that "nobody pays any
 >>attention" to Firmage). While I've never heard of you, I have
 >>heard of Firmage. That's no slight against you, that's just a
 >>credit to how Firmage got wide exposure in the national press.
 >>His ability to get into the media reached a great deal more
 >>people than usual. They were talking about alien encounters in
 >>fincial sections for heavens sake, reaching a different audience
 >>(which I view as an important development). This was mostly
 >>fate, of course, he didn't plan on being the sensation that he
 >>was. But he lived up to the challenge. He spoke out when the
 >>opportunity presented itself. He even spoke at the United
 >>Nations (though he didn't include mention of aliens when he was
 >>at the podium). And you resent him for this: For being himself?

I'm sure you haven't heard of me, Will. I'm not a millionaire
who can garner media attention that ensures my wealth means I am
the greatest thing in Ufology. Why, Will, I'm just like you. I
haven't done diddly squat in the field of Ufology.

I don't "resent" Joe Firmage one bit. I just don't have any use
for one-hit wonders who have no dedication, but talk big and
can't walk the walk.

Come to think of it, Will, I've never heard of you either. Your
contributions to the field of Ufology has been what?

 >But the real researchers and historians who keep all of you
 >supplied with new documentation, etc., are still shelling out of
 >their pockets and didn't give a damn if the stock market
 >collapsed.

 >That's the point and the difference between Joe Firmage, a one-
 >shot wonder, and us schlocks that are still here after the
 >glitter of Firmage's show faded.

 >Oh, yeah. You didn't mention the two books I co-authored. As a
 >matter of fact, I haven't made so much as a dime from Ufology...
 >but I can guarantee you one thing... I'm one of the few in this
 >field that has brought new knowledge, insight, documentation,
 >etc. into this field in the last 5 years. I think I've tried to
 >be generous too, but feel bad that I can't be more so.

 >So, Will, cry about poor Joe Firmage in somebody else's beer.

 >>Wendy, I'm not crying. It sounds as if you are though.

No. Not crying. Just torqued that people like you equate money
to ability and expertise in a field in which Firmage didn't take
the time to learn, understand or contribute in a meaningful and
lasting way. Firmage is a nice guy. He just doesn't have any
expertise in Ufology to use his money and power to reposition
it.

 >>Does it really come down to such a petty matter? You're bitter
 >>about what he decided to do with his own money, so you feel
that >>he's less honorable a man? Don't you understand that he
is not >>you? That he was free to do whatever the heck he wanted
to do? >>If you can't grok that concept... I just don't know. I
just >>can't see how you can presume to know what was best for
him to >>choose. That's offensive to me. I don't like it when
beggars >>presume that I'm supposed to give them a quarter, and
it is no >>better when it comes from a sensible adult. I should
mention >>hat I'm pretty sure I make less money than most people
 >>here, so this isn't about class. This is about not honoring
 >>another person's decisions - more, it is about attacking someone
 >>not for what they have done (which was courageous), but what you
 >>think they should have done. Well guess what? That's not your
 >>call.

I never said Firmage was a "less than honorable" man. I said he
made promises he didn't keep. He had the right to spend his
money any way he wanted to and did, which got him 15 minutes of
fame in the field of Ufology and all the money spent was for
nothing of substance. In other words, a one-shot wonder.


Wendy Connors

Ufological Do Nothing, Extrordinaire







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                Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Gehrman

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
Date: 09:26 AM 3/4/03 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 16:21:11 -0500
Subject: Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Gehrman


 >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 00:15:43 +0000
 >Subject: Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism

 >>From: Laurel Oplatka <calabash2003@webtv.net>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 11:26:03 -0800 (PST)
 >>Subject: Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism

 >Furthermore, what the hell exactly does "post- modern" mean?

William,

Check out this link:

http://www.as.ua.edu/ant/Faculty/murphy/436/pomo.htm


Ed






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                            Re: Firmage - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 09:21:04 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 16:22:48 -0500
Subject: Re: Firmage - Kaeser


 >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 00:14:57 EST
 >Subject: Re: Firmage

 >As I recall NIDS (not Firmage) gave money to CUFOS, FUFOR and
 >MUFON, along with a few other notable, quoteables, including
 >Linda Howe, as I recall.

Robert Bigalow (I believe from Las Vegas) helped CUFOS, MUFON
and the Fund in establishing the UFO Coalition, which produced
"The Best Available Evidence". That publication was released as
a paperback a couple of years ago, but it had originally been
created for direct distribution to the media, as well as
government and business leaders. The UFO Coalition has also
become involved in other projects, which continue to this day,
but Bigalow is no longer funding that effort. He later created
the National Institute of Discovery Science (NIDS), which has a
number of very good reports published on the Internet. It has
also performed research into various areas, including the
purchase of a ranch in the southwest for the purpose of
investigating cattle mutilation.

Like Firmage, Bigalow's financial support has been very limited
and targetted toward specific projects.


Steve







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                          Secrecy News -- 03/04/03

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 09:29:51 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 16:24:45 -0500
Subject: Secrecy News -- 03/04/03


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2003, Issue No. 19
March 4, 2003


**      ORIGINAL 1953 "STATE SECRETS" RULING DISPUTED
**      FERC ADOPTS "NEED TO KNOW" INFO POLICY
**      BIOSECURITY & BIOTERRORISM JOURNAL
**      THE WOODWARD EXCEPTION TO CLASSIFICATION


ORIGINAL 1953 "STATE SECRETS" RULING DISPUTED

A 1953 Supreme Court decision that is one of the cornerstones of
national security secrecy policy relied on false government
information, the Court was told in a startling petition filed
last week.

The decision, United States v. Reynolds, is the judicial
foundation of the "state secrets privilege."  It provides the
precedential basis for asserting that there are "military
matters which, in the interest of national security, should not
be divulged," not even to a federal court.

The Reynolds case originated over 50 years ago when the widows
of three crew members who died in a 1948 crash of a B-29
Superfortress bomber requested accident reports on the crash.
The Air Force denied the request and filed affidavits with the
Supreme Court claiming that the withheld reports contained
information about the aircraft's secret mission and described
secret electronic equipment on board that had to be protected
from disclosure.  The Court, citing that claim, ruled in favor
of the Air Force and established the state secrets privilege.

"But it turns out that the Air Force's affidavits were false,"
according to the new petition filed by the surviving widows or
their heirs.  The recently declassified Air Force accident
reports contain nothing whatsoever about a secret mission or
sensitive electronic equipment.

"In telling the Court otherwise, the Air Force lied," the
Petitioners said.

The petitioners want the Court to vacate the 1953 Reynolds
decision (345 U.S. 1 (1953).  But they take no position on the
body of law that derives from it.  "Whether the legal principles
established in Reynolds are right or wrong is for another day
and another case."

"For petitioners, the only issue this Court must confront today
is whether it will tolerate a fraud -- a fraud that struck at
the integrity of the Court's decision-making process and that
cheated three struggling widows and their children out of that
which was rightly theirs."

See the February 26 "Petition for a Writ of Error Coram Nobis to
Remedy Fraud Upon This Court" here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/reynoldspet.pdf

A supplementary appendix including original case files and the
declassified accident reports is here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/reynoldspetapp.pdf

The Justice Department has not yet commented on the matter.


FERC ADOPTS "NEED TO KNOW" INFO POLICY

In an potentially momentous change in government information
policy, the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC) will now
process public requests for access to certain kinds of sensitive
energy infrastructure information selectively, depending on who
the requester is and why the information is sought.

Requesters will have to provide a "detailed statement explaining
the particular need for and intended use of the information"
that will then be evaluated by an agency official.  In effect,
the new policy imposes a differential "need to know" standard on
members of the public.

The policy is intended to protect "critical energy
infrastructure information," i.e. critical infrastructure
information that "relates to the production, generation,
transportation, transmission, or distribution of energy [and]
could be useful to a person in planning an attack...."

"These new steps will help keep sensitive infrastructure
information out of the public domain, decreasing the likelihood
that such information could be used to plan or execute terrorist
attacks," according to the new statement of policy.

FERC downplayed any potential adverse impact of the move,
arguing that the alternative to selective disclosure of such
information was no disclosure at all.  And while access to
"critical energy infrastructure information" would be denied to
ordinary requesters under the Freedom of Information Act, the
Commission indicated that "state agencies, landowners,
environmental groups [and others] may be found to have a need
for [such] information in a particular situation."

The text of the new rule, as published in the Federal Register
on March 3, may be found here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2003/03/fr030303.html


BIOSECURITY & BIOTERRORISM JOURNAL

"It is imperative that there be an informed, vigorous, and wide-
ranging public discussion about the bio-weapons threat and what
to do about it," write Tara O'Toole and Thomas V. Inglesby of
  the Johns Hopkins Center for Civilian Biodefense Strategies.

They are the co-editors of "Biosecurity and Bioterrorism," a new
peer-reviewed quarterly journal that is intended "to foster a
deepening understanding of the threat posed by biological
weapons and to broaden the spectrum of people who are
knowledgeable in these realms."

Further information, including a promising selection of articles
from the first issue, may be found here:

http://www.liebertpub.com/BSP/default1.asp


THE WOODWARD EXCEPTION TO CLASSIFICATION

The political abuse of the national security classification
system is shockingly manifest in Bob Woodward's best-selling
book "Bush at War," the conservative watchdog group Accuracy in
Media (AIM) complained in its latest publication.

"CIA Director [George J.] Tenet clearly authorized Woodward to
republish the contents of the President's Daily Briefing
(PDB).... [Yet] Tenet adamantly refused to provide copies of the
PDB to congressional investigators probing intelligence failures
prior to 9/11 and got the White House to exercise its executive
privilege weapon to block Capitol Hill's access to back PDB
copies.  Executive privilege clearly does not apply to
Woodward," according to the AIM Report, edited by Cliff Kincaid
and Notra Trulock.

"Had the leaks not come from Tenet directly, government security
officials would be preparing 'damage assessments' to show how
much classified intelligence had been revealed and how the leaks
had harmed the nation's ability to collect that intelligence in
the future.  Intelligence officials would be sending 'referrals'
to the Justice Department urging a full- scale leak
investigation. It's a safe bet that none of that will happen and
that security officials will reserve their wrath for low-level
violators," AIM concluded.

The AIM report tends to be overwrought and accusatory; it
assumes what it cannot prove, and the authors' critique is
diminished by their evident animosity towards Woodward, Tenet
and others.

But it serves as a timely reminder that the classification
system is a political artifact and is susceptible to political
abuse.

See "Mortuary Bob Hits a Gusher," AIM Report, February 28, here
(thanks to PW):

http://www.aim.org/publications/aim_report/2003/4.html


_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood@fas.org
voice:  (202) 454-4691






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   Mar > Mar 5

                        Review 'The Luminous Journey'

From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 15:31:59 -0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 16:26:15 -0500
Subject: Review 'The Luminous Journey'


A review of The Luminous Journey
Johan Quanjer 1934-2001

Reviewer: Joe McGonagle
Review date: 3rd March 2003

Johan Quanjer (pronounced "Kwanya") was the originator of a
spiritual-political philosophy that he dubbed "Pneumatocracy" (a
Greek representation of "The rule of the Spirit"). This book is
an autobiography covering from his early childhood, through to
the sunset years of his life.

At several stages of his life starting moments before (no,
that's not a typo!) his birth he encountered spiritual
revelations which took various forms. Some of these could be
attributed to wishful thinking, but there can be no doubt that
they greatly influenced his dedication and enthusiasm for the
Pneumatocratic philosophy, his social consciousness and his
activism. Although he was an enthusiastic proponent of the
philosophy of Pneumatocracy, he does not attempt to force-feed
it to the reader in this book.

His biography takes you from his young childhood in Dutch
colonial Java, through his maturation into a young man in NAZI-
occupied Holland, and his experiences in North America (where he
travelled widely, undertaking various relatively menial jobs and
where he was introduced to Theosophy). He left America in 1957
and spent a short time with his parents before moving to England
in the same year. It was in England that his political and
spiritual development peaked.

During his lifetime, he came into contact with most, if not all
facets of "New Age" activity from mediums to UFO groups and he
socialised with members of the entire social spectrum from new-
age colonists to Royalty. Although his activities were centred
on what is often regarded as "fringe" areas, he displays little
tolerance in his book for the charlatans and cranks that have
always been part of the fringe scene. He was highly critical of
individuals and groups that he thought were taking unfair
advantage of human gullibility. He also had a damning opinion of
communism and was a keen supporter of European politics,
actually standing for election to the European parliament under
the banner of "Spirit of Europe" in 1994. He also founded "New
Humanity" magazine, which was one of the longest running
alternative publications in the UK until it recently ceased
publication.

His autobiography is fascinating on several levels. It will
interest those with spiritual leanings, it contains first-hand
accounts of Colonial Java and occupied Europe, examples of the
extremes of trade-unionism in Britain, the involvement of the
privileged classes in the new-age movement, behind the scenes
commentary on politicians and groups such as the Findhorn
community, and has many anecdotes about people who were famous
in their day for one reason or another.

The strength of character, humour, and sincerity of Quanjer are
made apparent in this book. He seems like a man whose charisma
was instantly obvious to anyone that was lucky enough to have
met him.

In my opinion, this book should be added to the reading list for
anyone making a serious study of religion, philosophy, social
history, or politics. It will also be of particular interest to
those who are curious about participation by the higher social
strata in the new-age movement.

"The Luminous Journey" is privately published. The review copy
was 463 pages in Microsoft Word format and is available from:

The Luminous Journey,
51A York Mansions,
Prince of Wales Drive
London
SW11 4BP
United Kingdom

Email: information@pneumatocracy.org
Website: www.pneumatocracy.org
Telephone: +44 (0) 20 7622 4013

Price:

CD ROM (MS word) =A325*
Bound copy =A340
* For a limited period only, the CD version is available at the
special price of =A310.

Prices include UK P&P, please get in touch with the supplier to
confirm P&P for overseas orders.







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   Mar > Mar 5

                 Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Sandow

From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 11:12:47 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 16:30:17 -0500
Subject: Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Sandow


 >From: George Hansen <gphansen2001@yahoo.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 16:25:29 -0800 (PST)
 >Subject: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism

 >>From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com
 >>Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 09:05:07 -0500
 >>Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 09:16:56 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Sandow

 >Greg Sandow, ever naive (being a major proponent of the Linda
 >Napolitano [Cortile] case), asserts that postmodernists "found
 >their work on a careful foundation of fact."

Proponent? In 1997 - the last time I offered any judgement of
the case - I said I couldn't prove either that it was real, or
that it was a hoax. If that makes me a proponent, the meaning of
the word just changed. Read my study of the case, which
originally appeared in IUR. It's at www.gregsandow.com/ufo.

Of course, in that same piece, I did say that Hansen's study of
the case (coauthored with two others) was full of spit. No
wonder he's mad at me. (I might add that I didn't side with Budd
Hopkins, either, since I found things wrong with his work, too.)


 >Is Sandow completely oblivious of the "inventions" of Michel
 >Foucault?

My Foucault books burned in our fire, so I can't consult them
now. My recollection, however - supported by reading several
scholarly Foucault sites on the web - is that Foucault founded
all of his work on a careful study of history. Two examples from
his unfinished history of sexuality:

  - He talks about the fear of masturbation. To show how intense
it was in the past, he talks about how dormitories for young
boys were built in 19th century Germany. They were constructed
with masturbation in mind -- or, rather, constructed with the
beds deliberately arranged in a way to make masturbation
difficult. In order to make points like this one, Foucault had
to do a great deal of careful historical research.

  - He challenges (in typical postmodern style) many received
ideas, among them the notion that ancient Christians were stiff
and uptight, while pagans were loose and wild. In order to do
this, he has to study in great detail the history of ancient
Christian and pagan thought and behavior.

Besides, postmodernists vary (as I said). I cited two very
notable postmodern thinkers who do careful factual research,
Susan McClary and Edward Said. I could also add Jodi Dean, who
wrote a thoroughly postmodern book on UFOs. I know from the
book, and from talking to Dean, that she studied ufology
carefully and accurately. Her book is based on that study.

Greg Sandow
  was the originator of a
spiritual-political philosophy that he dubbed "Pneumatocracy" (a
Greek representation of "The rule of the Spirit"). This book is
an autobiography covering from his early childhood, through to
the sunset years of his life.

At several stages of his life starting moments before (no,
that's not a typo!) his birth he encountered spiritual
revelations which took various forms. Some of these could be
attributed to wishful thinking, but there can be no doubt that
they greatly influenced his dedication and enthusiasm for the
Pneumatocratic philosophy, his social consciousness and his
activism. Although he was an enthusiastic proponent of the
philosophy of Pneumatocracy, he does not attempt to force-feed
it to the reader in this book.

His biography takes you from his young childhood in Dutch
colonial Java, through his maturation into a young man in NAZI-
occupied Holland, and his experiences in North America (where he
travelled widely, undertaking various relatively menial jobs and
where he was introduced to Theosophy). He left America in 1957
and spent a short time with his parents before moving to England
in the same year. It was in England that his political and
spiritual development peaked.

During his lifetime, he came into contact with most, if not all
facets of "New Age" activity from mediums to UFO groups and he
socialised with members of the entire social spectrum from new-
age colonists to Royalty. Although his activities were centred
on what is often regarded as "fringe" areas, he displays little
tolerance in his book for the charlatans and cranks that have
always been part of the fringe scene. He was highly critical of
individuals and groups that he thought were taking unfair
advantage of human gullibility. He also had a damning opinion of
communism and was a keen supporter of European politics,
actually standing for election to the European parliament under
the banner of "Spirit of Europe" in 1994. He also founded "New
Humanity" magazine, which was one of the longest running
alternative publications in the UK until it recently ceased
publication.

His autobiography is fascinating on several levels. It will
interest those with spiritual leanings, it contains first-hand
accounts of Colonial Java and occupied Europe, examples of the
extremes of trade-unionism in Britain, the involvement of the
privileged classes in the new-age movement, behind the scenes
commentary on politicians and groups such as the Findhorn
community, and has many anecdotes about people who were famous
in their day for one reason or another.

The strength of character, humour, and sincerity of Quanjer are
made apparent in this book. He seems like a man whose charisma
was instantly obvious to anyone that was lucky enough to have
met him.

In my opinion, this book should be added to the reading list for
anyone making a serious study of religion, philosophy, social
history, or politics. It will also be of particular interest to
those who are curious about participation by the higher social
strata in the new-age movement.

"The Luminous Journey" is privately published. The review copy
was 463 pages in Microsoft Word format and is available from:

The Luminous Journey,
51A York Mansions,
Prince of Wales Drive
London
SW11 4BP
United Kingdom

Email: information@pneumatocracy.org
Website: www.pneumatocracy.org
Telephone: +44 (0) 20 7622 4013

Price:

CD ROM (MS word) =A325*
Bound copy =A340
* For a limited period only, the CD version is available at the
special price of =A310.

Prices include UK P&P, please get in touch with the supplier to
confirm P&P for overseas orders.







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Mar > Mar 5

                 Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Sandow

From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 11:14:53 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 16:31:25 -0500
Subject: Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Sandow


 >From: George Hansen <gphansen2001@yahoo.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 16:25:29 -0800 (PST)
 >Subject: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism

 >Is Sandow completely oblivious of the "inventions" of Michel
 >Foucault?

In my anwer to poor George, I'd forgotten to quote the following
from Foucault himself. It illustrates how important factual
research was to Foucault, and thorough and careful he was. It's
from an interview with him:

" I had been planning a study of hospital architecture in the
second half of the eighteenth century, when the great movement
for the reform of medical institutions was getting under way. I
wanted to find out how the medical gaze was institutionalised,
how it was effectively inscribed in social space, how the new
form of the hospital was at once the effect and the support of a
new type of gaze. In examining the series of different
architectural projects which followed the second fire at the
Hotel-Dieu in 1772, I noticed how the whole problem of
visibility of bodies, individuals and things, under a system of
centralised observation, was one of their most constant
directing principles. In the case of the hospitals this general
problem involves a further difficulty: it was necessary to avoid
undue contact, contagion, physical proximity and overcrowding,
while at the same time ensuring ventilation and circulation of
air, at once dividing space up and keeping it open, ensuring a
surveillance which would be both global and individualising
while at the same time carefully separating the individuals
under observation. For some time I thought all these problems
were specific to eighteenth-century medicine and its beliefs.

"Then while studying the problems of the penal system, I noticed
that all the great projects for re-organising the prisons (which
date, incidently, from a slightly later period, the first half
of the nineteenth century) take up this same theme, but
accompanied this time by the almost invariable reference to
Bentham. There was scarcely a text or a proposal about the
prisons which didn't mention Bentham's 'device' - the
'Panopticon'

"The principle was this. A perimeter building in the form of a
ring. At the center of this, a tower, pierced by large windows
opening on to the inner face of the ring. The outer building is
divided into cells each of which traverses the whole thickness
of the building. These cells have two windows, one opening on to
the inside, facing the windows of the central tower, the other,
outer one allowing daylight to pass through the whole cell. All
that is then needed is to put an overseer in the tower and place
in each of the cells a lunatic, a patient, a convict, or a
schoolboy. The back lighting enables one to pick out from the
central tower the little captive silhouettes in the ring of
cells. In short, the principle of the dungeon is reversed;
daylight and the overseer's gaze capture the inmate more
effectively than darkness, which afforded after all a sort of
protection."







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   Mar > Mar 5

                 Re: Question About Missing Time - Jonnaert

From: Thierry Jonnaert <thierry.jonnaert@pandora.be>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 17:34:18 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 16:34:37 -0500
Subject: Re: Question About Missing Time - Jonnaert


 >From: Martin Shough <mshough@parcellular.fsnet.co.uk>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 08:55:15 -0000
 >Subject: Re: Question About Missing Time

<snip>

Hi,

You have to read the whole and real story about Kelly Cahill -
  'Encounter'... in Australia, about missing time etc., and all
the research they did there.....

Have a nice day!


Thierry Jonnaert
Belgium







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                           Re: Firmage - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 11:47:48 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 16:36:41 -0500
Subject: Re: Firmage - Stanford


 >From: Will Bueche <willb3d@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 22:46:37 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Firmage

 >>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 17:02:13 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Firmage - Stanford

<snip>

 >>called UFOs, but from what I've heard of Firmage, I suspect he'd
 >>go, instead, for what might be called the more "Gee Whiz!" side
 >>of 'UFO Studies', where money could be easily and quickly
 >>wasted.

Will Bueche did not answer my inquiry, saying:

 >...I am not answering your question about what I know about
 >Firmage's donations."

One of the purposes and functions of this List it to openly
discuss and constructively criticize things transpiring in the
field of Ufology, and that is what was transpiring in my
comments on Firmage's alleged millions in contributions to, as
of now, rather invisible sources.  I think it interesting that
Will refused to answer, prefering to insinuate that I lack
humility in suggesting causes that I personally deem more worthy
than those one could have reason to suspect might have been
financially entertained by Firmage.

If Firmage gave money in confidence, why not just say that?

Or was the confidentiality, itself, confidential?

If that was the case, one might wonder about either the motives,
the self-confidence, or both, of the recipient(s), or maybe even
of a giver.

One cannot justly question the absolute right of Firmage (or of
anyone else) to decide how to use his own money, and if my
comments have been taken to suggest that, then they have been
misinterpreted or I have been insufficiently clear.

One might, however, in all fairness, question whether Firmage
had enough knowledge (through experience) of UFO studies to
enable him to make a WISE decision on where to productively put
contributions. That is what I seriously question in this case.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery







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                Linda Howe 'Dis-Invited' From UFO Conference

From: Royce J. Myers III - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 10:22:21 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 16:57:11 -0500
Subject: Linda Howe 'Dis-Invited' From UFO Conference


Hello all,

Just wanted to say hi and let everyone know I am doing well in
spite of the recent ludicrous assault on my website. But I'm not
here to address that issue at this time...

I have been keeping track with the debate about Linda Howe on
this list. I did some work with Linda on a couple of cattle
mutilation cases some years ago.

One of my LMH experiences dealt with the Hale-Bopp issue on the
Art Bell program. Linda told me she would deny this if I ever
told anyone about it, so, as one poster said, it comes down to
whom you believe.

Linda told me she had been on the phone arguing with Bell that
the Hale-Bopp companion was bogus and she could prove it - we
all know Jeff Rense actually exposed this hoax to begin with.
Linda told me that after informing Bell of her proof that Bell
stated, "So what? Controversy is good for ratings." She told me
the conversation with Bell was essentially a screaming match,
just as she had told me it was when she was first producing
Sightings.

I asked Linda why she would have anything to do with someone
that had an apparent disregard for credibility and I also told
her I'd dump Bell as soon as she could. Linda gave no answer as
to why she would continue going on Bell's program. Just one of
many tales of my experiences with Linda Howe...of which I have a
few more interesting ones including a time she demanded I give
her a phone number of someone that had filmed a UFO - this after
she said I was being dishonest with her...

While I felt that Linda had a lot of credibility some time ago,
her recent jumping into stories and sensationalizing them
without proving anything first has simply left me shaking my
head wondering what happened to the LMH that liked to present
scientific evidence first.

One of the recent and troubling pieces Linda put out there was
about the deer being found hanging in the tree. It appeared to
many that Linda was attempting to push the story into
alien/bigfoot land regardless that the animal had been killed by
a three-bladed arrow...I think it was Ted Oliphant that recently
called Linda a "media entrepreneur".

Looks like Linda Howe has been "dis-invited" from coming to
present in Seattle over her promotion of an apparent Brazilian
UFO hoaxer. Her side of the story...

http://www.earthfiles.com/news/news.cfm?ID=479&category=Science


Regards,

Royce J. Myers III
UFOWATCHDOG.COM...?

Regards,

Royce J. Myers III
UFOWATCHDOG.COM
"Don't Trip On Your Open Mind"







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                March/April Psychology Today Article Reaction

From: Will Bueche <wbueche@centerchange.org>
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 14:12:42 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 16:59:29 -0500
Subject: March/April Psychology Today Article Reaction


A CC of my letter, sent to the author of the article, and to her
editor. The current issue of Psychology Today is arriving on
news stands this week. This may not be of general interest, but
what the heck, I think I make a good point or two so I may as
well share it with the List:


Dear Mr. Perina,

I've read your article ("Cracking the Harvard X-Files") and am
satisfied that you included references to William James, which
acknowledged the rift between material science and experiential
evidence, or the spiritual side of life.  This was by no means
presented in balance with the pages upon pages, about McNally's
study, but it was present, at least in token fashion, so that is
appreciated. Naturally I did not expect that a magazine titled
Psychology Today would enter into a philosophical discussion
(leave that to Philosophy Today, if there is such a publication,
I suppose!).

I'd have liked you to have mentioned what Mack's "multifaceted"
theory was, rather than refer to it only as a theory which
McNally and Clancy find "hilarious;" one can assume from various
points in the article that Mack's theory has something to do
with "altered states of consciousness," and given the William
James reference, probably something to do with "spirit," and
indeed Mack's last line in the article, which is quite nice by
the way, "We're in different firmaments," does indeed give some
hint as to what Mack's perspective is. But please help me if I
am mistaken, but you seemed to have omitted actually saying what
Mack's theory was.

(Similarly you say that Mack encourages an "abandonment" of the
physical sciences in his approach, yet you omit mentioning why
he came to that perspective).

Aside from that omission I have only one criticism about the
article:

It is simply that it is disheartening to see the tendency, which
you are not alone in enacting, of resorting to cynicism to infer
disagreement. My criticism is that these negative tendencies
slipped into your writing.

Lines written with a cynical edge - such as "[Mack is a]
paranormal philosopher king" or "Abductees...cling to him like
acolytes, often parroting his theories," (an absurd remark,
considering that Mack's theories are simply rephrasings of what
experiencers have related to him, not the other way around), or
"[explanations] have proliferated apace with blockbuster movies
about aliens" (an editorial comment which cynically implies a
relationship, yet has no  reference, nor bears up to examination
considering that people do not report the types of aliens shown
in movies) - are ever-present in the piece.

Similarly, beyond word choice, looking at the construction of
the piece, your choice to lead Peter's experiences as being
"chips implanted in his anus," rather than leading with his
remark in which he conveys what he felt was important about his
experience, speaks to this edge of cynicism which crept into
your writing. You also described alien encounters as "[beings]
hovering over their beds," implying, I suppose, that these are
hypnogogic hallucinations - since most readers would assume that
by "hovering," you meant "floating," not "standing around."
These subtle tilts of the truth likely came from McNally who
reinterprets the descriptions to more closely match his theory
about hypnogogic hallucination, but you adopted them into the
reporter's voice.

I'm afraid that writing a balanced piece involves more than
ensuring that a reference to William James provides a nod to the
spiritual dimensions. Ideally, these two sides of the discussion
are engaged by the writer, boldly, without resorting to tints of
cynicism. It seems you tried to cast Eugene Taylor as the voice
in balance between the two sides, but ideally, wouldn't that
responsibility have been yours as well?

Apparently not. But aside from the cynical tint, thanks for
writing the article; it is, at the most, a testament to the
enduring divide between different philosophies.

Sincerely,

Will Bueche







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                       UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 10

From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 15:59:02 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 17:04:16 -0500
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 10

Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor.

<Masinaigan@aol.com>
==========================

       UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 8, Number 10
March 5, 2003
Editor: Joseph Trainor

http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/


HOVERING UFO SPOTTED
IN PUNE, INDIA

       On Monday, February 24, 2003, at 8:30 p.m., Dinesh
Hukmani was at home in the city of Pune, in Maharashtra
state, India when he spotted a UFO.
       "I was relaxing on my fifth-floor balcony, gazing at
the stars, when suddenly, in the clear sky amidst lots of
stars, there appeared this light, star-like but very
bright.  It appeared out of nowhere, grew in intensity,
diminished and then disappeared.  It was all over in a
matter of three seconds."
       Dinesh Hukmani described the UFO as "round in shape,
silvery white, star-like, very bright."
       Pune (pronounced Poo-nah--J.T.) is located 180
kilometers (108 miles) southeast of Mumbai, India's
largest city.


LARGE DARK UFO SEEN IN
VINA DEL MAR, CHILE

       On Friday, February 28, 2003, at 6:20 a.m., Ricardo
Barraza was driving to work in Vina del Mar, a port in
Chile, when "he looked to the southern sky" and "noticed a
pulsating luminous object that began to move quickly
towards the south.  He noticed that the light was being
followed by an enormous dark mass that was easily
concealed by the darkness of the sky at this early hour."
       Vina del Mar is a suburb just north of the large
Chilean port city of Valparaiso.  (Muchas gracias a Scott
Corrales y Rodrigo Cuadra Salazar de la revista
Tecnologia: OVNIs y Ciencia para eso informe.)


LUMINOUS BLUE UFO SEEN IN
ALBUQUERQUE, NEW MEXICO

       On Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 6:45 p.m., Steve
Goldman reports, "I was facing north, coming off the
highway, Interstate I-25, at the Griegos exit" in
Albuquerque, New Mexico (population 448,607) when "a
bright flourescent blue lozenge-shaped object flew from
the west, coming down at around 30 degrees.  It seemed to
be traveling very fast, crossing about a third of my view
of the horizon in about two seconds.  When it reached what
appeared to be the height of Sandia Peak, 10,000 feet
(3,000 meters) it simply 'turned off' and disappeared from
view."
       "The object was about the size of an aspirin held at
arm's length and was a very bright flourescent blue until
it disappeared.  The brightness and color were constant
while it was in view."  (Email Form Report)


MULTICOLORED UFO SEEN
IN SOUTH CAROLINA

       On Wednesday, February 5, 2003, at 9 p.m., David
Boone was outdoors in a rural area near Hemingway, South
Carolina (population 573) when he spotted a UFO "with many
colored lights."
       David reported, "I saw a ball of lights going into
the woods" just off Highway 51.  "At first I thought it
was a helicopter.  It was just off Balex Road, where the
cows graze.  It was a ball of lights.  It was big.  It had
all kinds of colored lights on it."
       Hemingway, S.C. is on Highway 51 about 20 miles (32
kilometers) west of Myrtle Beach.  (Email Form Report)


READER FEEDBACK:

"JELU SIGHTING" WAS NOT MINE!

       Giorgio Piacenza of Peru writes, "I never mentioned
anything about an ET princess wearing something like a
Tanga (Brazilian string bikini--J.T.)  The report from
Panamericana Television in Lima does not mention this,
either.  Please correct this information which is highly
inaccurate and detracts from my reputation and from the
serious and genuine UFO events taking place in northern
Peru."
       In Peru's department (state) of Piura, "there are
sightings witnessed by many people and even filmed by
some.  They are occurring close to an archaeological area
where the pre-Incan Vicus culture thrived.  This is the
news I sent to UFOINFO."
(Editor's Comment: Giorgio is referring to the story that
appeared in UFO Roundup, Volume 8, Number 8 for February
19, 2003, "UFO flap reported in northern Peru," page 5.
This story was rewritten and appeared in the Spanish-
language newsletter NotiOVNI for February 23, 2003.  The
original UFO Roundup story listed "Giorgio Piacenza y
Monica Gaetano de Silva" as sources, which was true
enough.  Giorgio provided the report on the TV broadcast
of UFO sightings in Chulucanas and Piura La Vieja.  Sra.
de Silva provided a short report on the "Jelu sighting" in
nearby Tangarara.  Since the reported incidents all took
place in the same area, your editor combined them into one
story about northern Peru and listed Giorgio and Sra. de
Silva in the attribution line.  However, when NotiOVNI re-
ran the story in Spanish, they omitted Sra. de Silva's
name.  In retrospect, the fault is your editor's--I should
have been a lot more specific in the attribution, and I
apologize.  So let me clear this up right now.  Giorgio
Piacenza contributed the report about Television
Panamericana, Canal (Channel) 5 in Lima's 15-minute news
special on the UFO sightings and videotapings in
Chulucanas and Piura La Vieja--Monica Gaetano de Silva
contributed the report about la princesa de los hermanos
espaciales appearing in Tangarara.)



       Well, that's it for this week.  Join us next time for
more UFO, Fortean and paranormal news from around the
planet Earth, brought to you by "the paper that goes home-
-UFO Roundup."  See you next time.

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2003 by Masinaigan Productions, all
rights reserved.  Readers may post news items from UFO
Roundup on their websites or in news groups provided that
they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list
the date of issue in which the item first appeared.

E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com>
or use the Sighting Report Form at:

http://www.ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Website comments: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>

UFOINFO: http://www.ufoinfo.com

Official Archives of UFO Roundup, AUFORN Australian
UFO Reports and Experiences, UFO + PSI Magazine, plus
archives of Filer's Files, Oz Files, UFO News UK and
UFO Sightings Italia.
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If you wish to unsubscribe or feel you have received
the bulletin in error, please write to:

   <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>

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   Mar > Mar 5

                 Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 12:19:35 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 17:06:34 -0500
Subject: Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Hatch


 >From: George Hansen <gphansen2001@yahoo.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 16:25:29 -0800 (PST)
 >Subject: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism

 >>From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 09:05:07 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Sandow

 >Greg Sandow, ever naive (being a major proponent of the Linda
 >Napolitano [Cortile] case), asserts that postmodernists "found
 >their work on a careful foundation of fact."

 >Is Sandow completely oblivious of the "inventions" of Michel
 >Foucault?

 >Colin Bennett's postmodern analysis is particularly applicable
 >to ufology precisely because it calls attention to the blurring
 >of fact and fiction.

 >That same blurring is exemplified in the writings of
 >Greg Sandow when he promotes the Linda case!

 >George P. Hansen
 >The Trickster and the Paranormal
 >http://www.tricksterbook.com

- - -

Hello all:

Forgive me for this, but can anyone give a clear, concise, and
cogent definition of Post-Modernism in say 100 words or less?
Here on this List for the sake of those who tuned in late? Not
everyone here is up on philosophy.

I know that's asking a lot. I asked for a similar definition of
existentialism once in college. You can well imagine how lengthy
and unrevealing the responses were.

It would seem prudent to define what we are talking about before
we discuss it out much more or take sides.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch

- - - -






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                 Support For GAO Probe Of Kecksburg Incident

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net>
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 16:19:52 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 17:08:30 -0500
Subject: Support For GAO Probe Of Kecksburg Incident


TO:    Hon. James Moran
        U. S. House of Representatives
        Washington, DC  20515

FROM:  Larry W. Bryant
        3518 Martha Custis Drive
        Alexandria, VA  22302

DATE:  March 4, 2003

A citizens petition of worldwide scientific, political, and
historical importance has begun circulating mainly in
Pennsylvania, and elsewhere via the Internet at
http://www.signpetition.com/index.html

The petition calls for the Pennsylvania congressional delegation
to ask the U. S. General Accounting Office to investigate the
events, principals, activities, motivations, artifacts, and
aftermath of the official, military-led retrieval of an
unidentified flying object that crash-landed on Dec. 9, 1965,
near Kecksburg, Pa.

Certain evidence amassed since that time by private researchers
points to wrongdoing on the part of some members of the
retrieval team.  With the passage of nearly four decades, the
witnesses possessing that evidence (as well as prospective
witnesses/whistleblowers yet to come forward) are in a race with
the undertaker -- a race that they can win if you and other
members of Congress will support the petition drive.
Accordingly, so as to help set the record straight on what
happened (and why) with the Kecksburg UFO Incident, I now ask
that you formally notify all the Pennsylvania members of
Congress that they have your support as we seek this long-
overdue congressional investigation.

Upon their acknowledgment of your notice, please share their
response with me.  And thank you for thus helping us all resolve
the Kecksburg mystery.



LARRY W. BRYANT
Director, Washington, D.C., Office of
Citizens Against UFO Secrecy

P. S.:  I'm snail-mailing to you a signed printout of this e-formatted
letter.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Information is PROPERTY, and public information is PUBLIC property.






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                    Re: Exeter NH's 'UFO Kid' Dead At 55

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 20:20:04 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 17:13:14 -0500
Subject: Re: Exeter NH's 'UFO Kid' Dead At 55


 >Exeter UFO kid dead at 55

 >Source: The Portsmouth Herald, New Hampshire

 >http://www.seacoastonline.com/news/03022003/news/15408.htm


 >By Colleen Lent
 >news@seacoastonline.com

 >The death of longtime Seacoast resident Norman Muscarello, 55,
 >this past week undoubtedly rekindled discussions of his UFO
 >sighting on Sept. 3, 1965, which made national headlines.

 >One can almost hear excerpts of conversations around the dinner
 >table or coffee shop counter.

 >"Isn't he the kid who was chased by the space ship down by
 >Dining's Farm?" or "There was a book about him by some reporter"
 >or "Muscarello is the `Close Encounters' guy."

 >The account of Norman's teen-age real-life experience was akin
 >to a scene from a Steven Spielberg or George Lucas film. It soon
 >became fodder for several articles by John G. Fuller, appearing
 >in Reader's Digest, Look and True, before it was developed into
 >the book "Incident at Exeter" by the same author.

Interesting that the newspaper story is labelled "UFO Kid...."
and places the sighting in the context of his whole life but
does not address the key UFO question: did he see a real UFO,
have a delusion of make it all up? Reference to two policemen
who also saw it is made, but not discussed. If I recall
correctly, this is the case that really got Klass started. When
Klass found out that there was a power line in the vicinity he
began to wonder about the possibility of large plasmas being
created by the corona from a power line.







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                Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Oplatka

From: Laurel Oplatka <calabash2003@webtv.net>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 19:12:03 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 17:15:58 -0500
Subject: Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Oplatka


Dick,

First, as Colin himself has mentioned in previous posts, a
"user-friendly" example of PM can be found in his NASA/Oberg
article in Fortean Times, #168.

OK, I'm not an artist or parodist supreme as is Colin but I'll
put forth here some of my "takes" (partially at least) re: PM,
although it is quite difficult as the essence/nature of PM
resists a pigeon-holed definition, being rather a "philosophy of
the fluid", so to speak, as opposed to a rigid, fixed-boundary
system or approach.

To my understanding the relationship of modernism to post-
  moderism cannot be expressed simply in terms of an 'apples and
oranges' analogy - I think that modernism, in general, attempts
to challenge (19th century) cultural definitions in the arenas
of philosophy, race, gender, class - sociological issues - as
well as art/literature. The modernist view encompasses the idea
of innovation in that it seeks to make new moves "within" the
rules of what J.F. Lyotard (someone correct me if I'm wrong
here), referred to as the "language game act", in an attempt to
impart a rejuvenated energy/spirit to established definitions.
In contrast, PM takes the leap that will ultimately displace the
"rules of the game", to make unexpected or even seemingly
impossible moves.

So, if modernism is seeking to refine the efficacy of the
prevailing systems, PM is moving to change the "rules" of
knowledge-systems themselves. This idea, vis a' vis science, is
pointed to by Colin in "Politics of the Imagination" when he
talks about scientific "discoveries" being merely changes in the
product, not the store. Vis a' vis literature, the PM approach
is represented (some times) by a more non-linear, stream-of-
consciousness style, rather than the non-fragmented, straight
line story narrative; for example, Colin's recent "Fourth Day"
post is a very clever and artful piece of PM writing. Although
this is perhaps a preposterous over-simplication, I want to say
that PM craves an end to the dominance of scientific
rationality, instead urging an all-embracing approach,
emphasizing the importance and relevance of the subconscious, a
plurality of viewpoints, images, mystery, magic and myth.

In Colin's magical PM recipe, we find blended a sense of the
metaphysical, a quantum world view and a really witty sense of
play/humor.

I think the following is also relevant to the PM sensibility and
I assume we can at least agree on this point: " Science seeks to
prove the invisible by the visible; metaphysics seeks to
demonstrate the 'reality' of the invisible in the visible." (Ann
M. Lavalee).

  - Laurel








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   Mar > Mar 5

              Re: Kecksburg Petition CFI Press Release - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 07:49:35 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 19:44:48 -0500
Subject: Re: Kecksburg Petition CFI Press Release - Kaeser


 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 00:56:05 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Kecksburg Petition CFI Press Release

 >>From: Leslie Kean <lkean@ix.netcom.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 02:50:20 -0500
 >>Subject: Kecksburg Petition CFI Press Release - 03-03-03

 >>Monday, March 3, 2003

 >>For further information:
 >>Contact: Ed Rothschild (202) 879-9317
 >>Leslie Kean (415) 250-9791

 >>SCI FI Channel and Coalition for Freedom of Information to
 >>Support Petition for Federal Investigation into Kecksburg
 >>Incident

 >>For more background, see www.freedomofinfo.org . Please see
 >>www.signpetition.com for a copy of the petition and information
 >>about the petition drive.
 >
 >Hi Leslie or whoever is listening from CFI,

 >Is there a reason why _all_ the eggs are being put into one
 >basket? There are so many great UFO cases to choose from I'm
 >just curious, why Kecksberg to the exclusion of all the other
 >cases? Who voted Kecksberg to be the 'best case' for this
 >purpose?

 >If Kecksberg turns out to be the recovery of some stray Ruskie
 >bird, is there going to be 'another' petition over some other
 >'individual' UFO case? If so, 'who' does the choosing?


I believe that Kecksberg was selected because it involves an
incident that involves multiple witnesses and military action
that can't be denied, and the fact that FOIA requests have been
denied for national security reasons. With publicly known, and
acknowledged, government involvement in this case, there is an
ability to seek specific information (or an explanation as to
why that information is being withheld). CFI has indicated that
they would like to concentrate on cases where requests have been
denied for national security reasons. Unfortunately, I can think
of few others that fit into this caregory.

You are correct in that the current theory held by many is that
this was a former Russian satellite that was picked up and
quickly carried away. I have spoken with a Legislative Aide for
the Congressional District that includes Kecksberg and he
indicated that every thread of information he was able to obtain
pointed in that direction. But then again, he certainly wasn't
"in the loop" either. I would add that the office was quite
aware of the public interest in this case, judging from the
amount of mail they received.

CFI provides an opportunity to utilize resources that are
familiar with the workings and government and have expertise in
the legal aspects of FOIA requests. They are not prepared to
take on hundreds of minor requests, but I believe they would
prefer to concentrate their talents. They have indicated that
they are open to suggestions, and I believe that is trully the
case.

Steve







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   Mar > Mar 6

                 Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Hansen

From: George Hansen <gphansen2001@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 07:44:56 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 01:14:48 -0500
Subject: Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Hansen


 >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 00:43:22 +0000
 >Subject: Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Hall


Dick Hall comments:

"But the only thing I find 'humorous' about Colin Bennett is his
attempt to substitute subjectivism for consensual reality and
scientific method."

The fact is, UFO phenomena, and the paranormal generally, resist
consensual validation. Anyone familiar with the history of
ufology knows this. UFO claims are continually in dispute, even
after 50 years of concerted study. Psychical research shows the
same pattern after 120 years of investigation.

The so-called "scientific" paradigms of the old white men of
ufology are obviously inadequate. Bennett provides a very
useful, alternative way of addressing the phenomena.

UFO phenomena are real, but they are not 'rational'. UFO
phenomena, like psychic phenomena, are not separate from
observers. The subjective-objective distinction is inherently
blurred. Theories of liminality, and concepts from
postmodernism, can deal with this notion, but most scientific
paradigms cannot.

To his credit, Dick Hall understands that Bennett's ideas
severely challenge prevailing notions of science. In his
attacks on Bennett, Hall would find many allies within the
physical sciences. However, those allies will not aid him in
his study of UFOs, rather, they will sneer at him in just the
same way he sneers at Bennett.

In a fundamental sense, UFOs and postmodernism challenge
scientific, objectivist paradigms in the very same way.


George P. Hansen

The Trickster and the Paranormal
http://www.tricksterbook.com






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   Mar > Mar 6

                          Filer's Files #10 -- 2003

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 12:41:03 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 01:20:32 -0500
Subject: Filer's Files #10 -- 2003


FILER'S FILES #10 -- 2003 Skywatch Investigations.
George A. Filer,  Director Mutual UFO Network Eastern
March 5, 2003,   Majorstar@aol.com  Webmaster: Chuck
Warren -- My website is at: www.Georgefiler.com
Sponsored by: www.filer.unfranchise.com

UFO SIGHTINGS CONTINUE HIGH IN NORTHWEST

The purpose of these files is to report the UFO eyewitness and
photo/video evidence that occurs on a daily basis around the
world and in space. This report includes a wave of UFOs in the
northeast and a UFO DISCLOSURE POLL, Massachusetts oval craft,
New Jersey giant hang glider and cylinder, Maryland bright
lights and a new part of me was opened,  Virginia two flashes of
bright green light, Wisconsin police officers witness rotating
lights, Montana two black objects flutter, Washington airliner
paced by small disc, Canadian UFO sightings remain high, Mexico
UFOs over volcano, Ireland UFOs over Cork harbor, UK sightings,
daylight disc causes accidents in Scotland, Sri Lankan officer
sees golden shining object, and the excellent book, "UFO Defense
Tactics, Weather Shield to Chemtrails."

MASSACHUSETTS OVAL CRAFT

ROSLINDALE -- The observer states, "On my way to work, walking
down a road, on February 17, 2003, about 5:30 AM, before
sunrise, I saw a descending shape, like an airplane above the
city's skyscrapers."  I assumed the craft to be an airplane
landing at the local airport, but it was larger than most, and
as it glided it was a strange color unlike any airplane.  Also,
it glowed with a strange orange luminous crackle, and when I
looked at it for very long, it hurt my eyes to do so.  Black
dots seemed to float around this thing, but I thought it might
have been a trick of my eye. I am convinced that it was a
vehicle meant for flight, but not of any human construction that
I know.  Thanks to Peter Davenport    NUFORC

NEW JERSEY GIANT HANG GLIDER AND CYLINDER

KENILWORTH -- The witness, a clinical social worker, was driving
east on Route 22, on February 16, 2003, and saw something
crossing over Route 22 at 3:10 PM, about a mile in front of me
or less.  It appeared to be only a few hundred feet above the
ground, and looked like someone hang gliding, but what was
hanging beneath was too big to be a person.  As I am approaching
the object the traffic is building and slowing in front of me,
so they may also have seen the object.  As it passed practically
directly over me, it appeared to float on the wind and was a
dull orange two-tone.  I pulled in to a business parking lot to
continue watching.  The top was shaped like a kite or hang
glider that was an estimated fifteen feet across or more and ten
feet or more from front to rear.  Hanging from it was a
cylindrical shaped object that was at least 30 feet long and the
last seven feet was curled up in the rear like a seahorse's
tail.  It was just about to snow storm and the sky was gray and
it was windy.

As the object flew southwest, gaining altitude, I saw a similar
object behind the first the same shape, color and texture but
two-thirds its size.  I became excited that it would join the
first.  It flew above and directly behind, then passed on the
side.  It continued southwest but the first flew northwest and
disappeared.  Later it flew over Route 22, while the second
object disappeared flying southwest. The whole event only lasted
7 minutes.  Thanks to Peter Davenport   NUFORC

MARYLAND LIGHTS AND A NEW PART OF ME WAS OPENED!

BOWIE -- A young student witness was outside looking at the snow
on the ground at 6 PM, with his dog on February 16, 2003, when a
snowflake went in his eye.  The student states, "With all of the
clouds in the sky, I knew that I wasn't going to see much, but
looking up I realized there was a weird flashing light up in the
sky." I got a little freaked out when it got closer; and a new
set of lights appeared through the clouds, and then another set
came down.  Each one had eight different sets of flashing
lights.  Then my dog started to bark and the lights lit up as if
they heard her.  The lights got brighter and brighter, and I
heard a loud shrieking noise and yet despite the pain I kept
looking up.  My dog got scared and ran with her tail tucked
under her.  Then a beam of light flashed on my face and then my
body and I fell as if someone ousted me!  Then with a flash of
light they disappeared, except for one that lingered there for a
moment flashing it's lights as if it was trying to communicate.
I didn't feel scared, but rather safe.  Then just like the
others, it went away in a flash!  I remained still and then went
inside and started to feel things I've never felt before.  A new
part of me had just been awakened.  Thanks to Peter Davenport
NUFORC

VIRGINIA TWO FLASHES OF BRIGHT GREEN LIGHT

VIRGINIA BEACH -- On February 15, 2003, the observer was
standing on her porch at 4 AM, when suddenly behind her the sky
lit up a bright green for a second or two.  She states, "I
quickly turned around and a few seconds later another bright
emerald green flash lit up the sky like lightning for another
second or two."  I got my boyfriend and waited for something
else to happen, but nothing did, but I was scared. Thanks to
Peter Davenport  NUFORC

POLICE OFFICERS WITNESS ROTATING LIGHTS IN WISCONSIN

WISCONSIN DELLS -- My wife thought she saw a strange star that
had "rotating lights" and called me to see it on February 23,
2003.  She at first thought it was an emergency medical
helicopter because it was coming closer.  I looked at 12:10 AM,
and told her it was just a bright star, but suddenly it moved to
the left at an increasing speed and stopped.  The lights were
red, blue, green, and white.  It continued to maneuver, hover
then fly from side to side, up and down and at one point dropped
straight down about 500 feet in a matter of a second.  Then it
would stay stationary for ten minutes.  I am a public employee
and called a friend of mine who was on duty to witness this
thing.  He is very skeptical, an experimental pilot and flight
enthusiast.  He admitted that the movements were very odd and he
agreed that no plane could move like that, and no helicopter was
that fast.  It is now twenty minutes since he left and it is
making abnormal movements again with bright multiple lights on
the object that increased in intensity.  The object then moved
closer to our house so I went outside, but I could not hear an
engine.

MILWAUKEE -- My 21 year old son came home from work at 7:10 PM
on February 15, 2003, all upset and scared.  He was so wound up
I had a problem getting him calm.  Both he and a friend were
driving on Highway 100, when his friend saw a round or
rectangular craft with lights hovering above them.  My son
almost got in an accident looking at it as they both freaked out
because it looked like an alien craft.  It hovered for ten
minutes and disappeared.  Thanks to Peter Davenport   NUFORC

MISSOURI AN ODD HUM

SPRINGFIELD -- I don't know how exciting this is, but I was
laying in bed on February 19, 2003, trying to get to sleep and
the neighbors dog was barking at 11 PM.  A few seconds after the
dog stopped barking, a loud hum started to be heard and I felt
an electric feeling.  The whole time I was laying in bed
listening to the hum there was no other sound.  It could be a
generator but it seemed to be radiate from above my house.  Once
the hum stopped all the usual noises started back.  Thanks to
NUFORC

TEXAS THREE SPHERES AND CHEMCLOUDS

AUSTIN -- Sonia writes, "I just want to let you know that I've
seen some unidentified objects in the sky in Texas.  I rarely
get to see a clear sky any more, because Austin has been under a
constant blanket of chemclouds for a year.  We've had a daily
barrage of chemtrails since June 1999.  But for about a year
now, we've had seven weeks of unremitting coverage of chemclouds
blanket with only 1 1/2 days of sun.  That is then repeated.
Therefore, my sightings are very limited.  I first saw them in
the summer of 2000, they had not yet begun to spray during the
night.  I pointed the UFOs out to my neighbor when we were
outside.  She had binoculars, which was how I was able to
ascertain that one was emanating color, and moving in a zigzag
fashion.

There are usually three UFOs that are multi colored brilliant
spheres.  Two are stationary, and the other moves between those
two in a revolving, zigzagging manner.  They emit colors of
green and red.  They might be some type of satellite to keep
track of us or measure the contaminants that they have spewed
out, or they might be extraterrestrial.  Two nights ago the sky
was clear enough to make out one that appeared stationary, but
was emitting colors.  I watched for about 15 minutes and it was
still there when I went to bed.  Thanks to Sonia.

CALIFORNIA FLYING SAUCERS SEEN BY POLICE

BURBANK -- The witness was monitoring the 8 PM radio
transmissions of Burbank Airport Police units talking to each
other on their radio's.  The various police units in different
locations were observing six objects flying over the Burbank
Airport on February 16, 2003.  They were discussing six flying
saucers and contacted the tower.  The tower contacted the
Burbank police helicopter that began searching for the objects.
I'm sure all of this radio traffic was recorded by the city of
Burbank 911 center.  Also, the tower transmissions would be
recorded by the FAA.  I, personally, did not see the craft and
only heard the radio communications.

LIVERMORE -- I was driving north on Route 680 near Pleasanton on
February 4, 2003, and as I came down the mountain pass at 11 PM,
I saw two shooting stars come down and split directions.  I
looked out my right hand window and saw the bottom of a circular
dark disk 'float' past with an "eclipse" on the bottom.  I'm
highly positive what I saw was a craft of some sort, and I know
I saw the shooting stars just before the UFO?  It may have been
the same thing.  There were no lights as it floated by, just the
grayness of the bottom of the disk.

QUAIL VALLEY -- On February 16, 2003, a vertical elongated
diamond shaped light in sky was flashing every five seconds for
15 minutes.  It faded away at 9:30 PM, and reminded me of the
shape of a sword or an elongated diamond.  It had a main light
in the center and emitted a vertical flashing light.  Thanks to
Peter Davenport  NUFORC

MONTANA TWO BLACK OBJECTS FLUTTER

BILLINGS -- At 6:20 PM, the witness was walking north shortly
after sunset on February 18, 2003, and noticed an airliner
approaching and saw two black fluttering objects moving towards
the east.  They sort of dipped and weaved across the sky.  I
noticed a small orange light coming from the rear of the
objects.  I thought that they were stealth fighter aircraft,
however, there were no lights and no sound.  They soon
disappeared in the east.  This was the second time in two weeks
that I have seen these strange objects. Thanks to NUFORC

WASHINGTON AIRLINER PACED BY SMALL DISC

OLYMPIC MOUNTAINS -- We were walking along a dirt road by our
place outside of Shelton at 11:30 AM, on February 24, 2003, when
I heard a deep roar of a jet engine.  I looked up to see what
was making the noise, and noticed an airliner going very slow,
almost ready to stall, with a small silver disc under the
aircraft.  I told my wife, and kids to look at that in the sky.
We watched the little silver craft pace the larger airliner for
ten seconds, then the little disc shot ahead, and above, in
front, of the airliner and shot off.  They were both heading in
a northerly direction at that point.

CAMANO ISLAND -- It was a raining on February 16, 2003, when my
husband  just laid down when our dogs started to act funny and
he heard a humming sound in his ears.  About 10:30 PM, he looked
out to see a diamond shaped object go over the top of our home
that was very high up and going faster than an airplane.  It had
neon lights all around it and it was diamond shaped.  After it
went over the house it shot down to the south end of Camano
Island.

PUYALLUP -- The witness went outside to get some wood on
February 23, 2003, and saw three bright red blinking lights that
maneuvered in circles and with fast up and down motions and
hovered.  My boyfriend came to look and said it was just because
it was so cold outside the air was reflecting the light
differently and making the objects move.  I went in the house
but it was still very active and moved again flashing a reddish
color.  We watched them for about an hour when another appeared
in view and did the same thing except it would go really fast up
in the air and then drop back down and do circles and S shapes.

OLYMPIA -- I saw all these orange or yellow lights in the sky on
February 23, 2003, at 7:30 PM, that were gliding silently in the
shape of a V, the way birds do.  The little lights then moved
around to form a circle, still gliding across the sky, then back
into a giant V.  It must have been the area of a football field
or two.  It started in the southwest and flew northwest.  The
lights began to dim out and it eventually just disappeared into
the clear night sky.  The object had a dark shadow around it,
like a giant ship with lights on.  The lights were literally
dancing in the sky.  There were two planes in the sky that were
flying very slow compared to the UFOs NUFORC

ORB PHOTOS IN SPOKANE, AND ON LAKE ONTARIO SIMILAR -- Jennifer
Jarvis of Orbwatch reports that Judge Ed's photos in Spokane
Washington, are very similar to photos taken over Lake Ontario
near Toronto, Canada.  I would like to direct you to this page
on the Orbwatch where there are comparison photos.  Thanks to
Jennifer Jarvis,   orb watch  contact@orbwatch.com
http://fierycelt.tripod.com/ont_wa/ont_valley.html

CANADA SIGHTINGS HIGH

WELLINGTON CAP-EGMONT -- A father and son report seeing an odd
light on top of the Northumberland Strait almost every night
from 10 to 11 PM for almost three years.  It is bright white,
then changes orange - Yellow and never makes a sound.  It hovers
around 100 feet in the air but never takes off from land.  At
about 10 PM, it just appears and hovers for 15-20 minutes, flies
a kilometer east, and returns.  On February 20, 2003, my friend
and I went down to the beach to watch.  At 10:15 PM, the light
appeared, so we went home to tell my Father.  After twenty
minutes, at 10:36 PM, it started to move quickly east, then
turned and flew west, stopped and became very bright.  A second
bright light appeared.  A jet plane passed between the two
bright lights and then a third REALLY bright light appeared.
For the first time, we were watching three really bright lights
until 11:15 PM, when they just disappeared.

DUNCAN, BC -- A witness phoned Brian Vike to tell him, "He was
walking his dog when he observed a circular object with a ring
of fire around it on February 10, 2003, at 6 PM."  His dog was
going crazy from the object that was the size of a dinner plate
five blocks away.  The ring which surrounded the object would
twirl around the main body with blue, green, colors.  It would
move up and down, when it got close to the cloud cover it would
change to all the different colors, but when it dropped back
down at a lower level the color changed to an orange.  The dog
took a bite at his owner's foot, as it was afraid.  The witness
was phoning from a friend's home and his dog was still acting
up.  While chatting on the phone, he gave out a loud cry and
said there was a bright white streak of light from the object
with a short trail of some of the colors was coming off it as it
disappeared.  Thanks to  Brian Vike

MEXICO UFOs OVER VOLCANO

Brenda Livingston writes I've been monitoring Cenepred Volcano
Camera starting January 1, 2002, and regularly I have seen the
most extraordinary display of possible UFOs.  I had seen an
occasional dark or white rounded object moving across the
screen, but this was very different.  First, I noticed a white
rounded area with a dark area right above and below it -- at the
top right that remained in this position for several days.  At 1
PM CST, a couple of white 'streaks' appeared in the distance to
the right of Mt. Popo both seeming to move toward the volcano.
The white streaks in the background certainly were changing in
position relative to the volcano and moved over it and curved
toward the camera.  A white oblong "object" with dark areas on
the top and bottom of it also appeared to the left of the
stationary object. Over a few minutes this object 'from above'
moved beneath the stationary object at a diagonal angle and then
moved off screen.  I decided to tune in to CENEPRED Volcano Cam
the following days and captured the action at random.  The march
across the skies over Mt. Popo continued over several days. And
it was the SAME march!  I brought out these old captures and
decided to do a little study and had photos taken at relatively
the same time to compare.  On three separate days, from 1 PM
until 1:30 PM -- (1) the white 'streaks' moved over Mt. Popo and
(2) the white oblong object moved under the stationary white
spherical object and they were synchronized. In the shots taken
by the camera at 13:03, 13:15, and 13:23 PM, the objects were in
the same almost exact positions on January 3, 6 and 8 at those
times.  This could be a most important discovery and needs
further investigation to explain what is happening in these
camera shots. This does appear to be organized monitoring
activity...but the question remains, 'who's'?  See
http://tracers.8m.com/PopoSeriesI.htm.  Thanks Brenda Livingston
Living-Tracers Enterprises living@airmail.net

UFO IN CHILE

VINA DEL MAR -- UFO researcher Rodrigo Cuadra reports that a UFO
was seen today at 06:20 AM on February 28, 2003, over Vi=F1a del
Mar in Chile's 5th Region.  The witness is Mr. Ricardo Barraza,
who claims that as he headed off to work, he looked to the
southern sky, where he noticed a pulsating luminous object that
began to move quickly toward the South.  The light was being
followed by an enormous dark mass that was easily concealed by
the darkness of the sky at that early hour.  Translation (C)
2003. IHU. Special thanks to Rodrigo Cuadra Salazar, Revista TOC
(Tecnolog=EDa, OVNIs y Ciencia)

IRELAND UFOs OVER CORK HARBOR

CORK -- Six UFOs were seen heading over Cork Harbor at 8:45 PM,
on February 23, 2003, in a southwest direction at incredible
speed.  They seemed to be in formation in a line, but the
extreme right UFO did a slight wobble and then they disappeared
out of the line of sight due to a tree in way. They seemed in
perfect control.  I am well used to seeing shooting stars and
normal transatlantic airplane traffic.  Most certainly these
objects were none of those.

ENGLAND STARS

LEICESTER -- The witness looked up to see a lit up patch in the
sky on February 13, 2003.  A giant plane the size of a football
field went through the gap where the light was at 7:45 AM. My
friend and I both saw it.  A week later we were standing at the
bus stop chatting.  When we finished chatting the bus stop had
moved five meters. Wierd!

BIRMINGHAM -- My sister and her family were looking out of a
window in the family home at 8:30 PM on February 15, 2003, at
what they thought was a particularly bright star in the clear
night sky. Almost immediately everyone witnessed the "star"
start to flash in different colors.  No sense of distance could
be obtained, other than to observe that what they thought at
first to be a star was considerably brighter than any other
within their view.  The observation lasted unbroken for two
hours, in which time it did not appear to move at all. Thanks to
Peter Davenport    NUFORC

DAYLIGHT DISC CAUSES FENDER BENDERS IN SCOTLAND

KINGSGATE RETAIL PARK -- The appearance of a huge silver UFO
caused spooked drivers to bump their cars at around 8:45 AM,
last Wednesday, February 12, 2003.  Drivers were so distracted
by the bizarre sightings that at least two minor bumps were
reported, as the attention of motorists wandered.  A local
woman, contacted the NEWS and said: "My friend saw something
hovering, which was silver in appearance and looked like the
dishes you see on the side of television transmitters.  It was
huge, and it was pulsating.  Many saw it, as you couldn't have
missed it.  He thought, 'Good God!' and was really quite shaken
by the whole thing.  My friend thinks the accidents at Kingsgate
were a result of the sighting.  Colleagues in the Cumbernauld
had seen a similar object thirty minutes earlier and alerted
their South Lanarkshire counterparts that it was heading their
way.  The sighting has also intrigued East Kilbride UFO Club,
whose members were warned in advance that they might be about to
spot something strange.  Lee Close, of the Anglo-Scottish UFO
Research Agency, has been investigating last weeks events in
tandem with the local UFO club.  He said, "This is the first
time I've come across a UFO that caused a car crash, although
I'm aware of it having happened in America before."  Thanks to
Jeff Rense http://www.rense.com/general35/daylight.htm

SRI LANKAN OFFICER SEES GOLDEN SHINING OBJECT

HINGURAKGODA -- A military officer reports we were playing soft
ball cricket on the Air force grounds on February 18, 2003.  At
about 5:15 PM, one of the players showed me something in the sky
at sunset moving very slowly to the left side of the mountains.
It was a stick shaped shining object in gold color that was
observed for eight minutes. It was about 50 km away from us at
an altitude estimated to be 5000 feet.  We checked with radar
and there were no aircraft airborne at that time.

CHEMTRAILS (CHEMICALLY AUGMENTED CONTRAILS)

A.K. Johnstone, Ph.D. author of UFO Defense Tactics writes, "The
Air Force 2035 report describes how powerful ionospheric heaters
(i.e., HAARP), in concert with chemical condensation trails
(chemtrails), could generate clouds for weather modification.
Chemtrails spread behind airborne tankers, heated by radiowaves
of one to ten megahertz at the right time and space, could
create rain from a clear blue sky."  (Methods and Apparatus for
Altering a Region in the Earth's Atmosphere, Ionosphere and
Magnetosphere Patent # 4,686,605. Bernard Eastlaund 1987).
Aluminum, barium or titanium particles in the chemtrail mixture
are included to scatter light and dissipate radiation from the
sun (US Patent #3899144).  However, a different purpose is
described in the patent summary: to achieve, "maximum visibility
to aid in the visual acquisition of aircraft target vehicles and
the like." Radar sensitive chaff (mica and silica) in the
chemical mixture permits tracking of chemical agent dispersal
patterns in the atmosphere.  As well, polymers (chemically
synthesized compounds of very large molecules) are included to
absorb water vapor for cloud formation.  These compounds have a
dual function, however, as they can be utilized as a dielectric,
capable of sustaining an electric field and transmitting
electrostatic force.

While our government lacks an adequate weapon to deter unknown
craft, I believe that it has implemented a method to impede
their monitoring practices.  I believe other countries have done
so, as well.  The defensive method is neither lethal to the
visitors, nor harmful, yet its total effectiveness to dissuade
surveillance is questionable at this time.  I submit that
weather modifications by the US military and the government
covert agencies has been one of the chosen stratagems of
resistance.  Thanks to A.K. Johnstone, Ph.D.

UFO DEFENSE TACTICS - WEATHER SHIELD TO CHEMTRAILS

A. K. Johnstone, Ph.D., explores with evidence, the creation of
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chemtrails.  Numerous UFO sightings are examined from a
scientific viewpoint, including EM pulses, and fireballs.  Order
illustrated book, $14.95 from Hancock House 1-800-938-1114.

SCIENTIFIC STUDIES HELP YOU STAY YOUNG AND HEALTHY

Almost every week, I get letters from people who claim to be
suffering from what they call Chemtrail illness generated by jet
engine and auto emissions.  I was formally Vice President of
MEDCOR a health testing company and learned breathing in
pollution of any kind causes free radicals to form in our body
that are missing an electron, making the molecule unstable.
These unstable free radicals attack the healthy molecules
searching for its missing electron setting off a destructive
chain reaction.  If not stopped the free radicals wreak havoc on
our cells and our bodies.  To stop this chain reaction you need
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CoQ 10 and Isotonix OPC-3.  Scientific Isotonix OPC-3 studies
have validated that these are the most powerful antioxidant free
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discoveries in history.  You can purchase Isotonix OPC-3 at the
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lose weight Ephedra Free at:    lose weight.  For the latest in
anti-aging technology and HGH enhancement see: Antiaging,  and
for antioxidants use: Isotonix OPC-3,

The BOOK, "ILLUSTRATED NEWS OF THE UNBELIEVABLE"

Robert Trundle, Ph.D., Professor of Philosophy at Northern
Kentucky University, and I are looking for either a publisher or
an agent to represent our book.  Falling into the area of
Nonfiction Paranormal, the book consists of eyewitness reports
and pictures in newspaper format.  Provocative headlines,
straddling the millennium, provide a paradigm for twenty-first
century expectations of paranormal encounters.  Lead articles
are followed by illustrated news of such things as encounters
with angels, Near-Death Experience, alien abductions, alien pet
animals, and reported contacts with their worlds by government
officials.  Though Dr. Trundle's previous books such as "UFOs:
Politics, God &Science" and "Camus' Answer" were published in
university presses for relatively well educated readers, this
work is for a mass audience and is based on reports sent to Air
Force Intelligence Officer Major George Filer.  He is recognized
internationally as a top authority on UFOs, has often appeared
on television, and was one of the prominent officials invited to
speak at The National Press Club on the subject in Washington
D.C. Also, of possible interest to marketing considerations is
that Filer gets over 400,000 hits a month on his paranormal
website Filer's Research Institute.  And exposure includes his
weekly newsletter to tens of thousands of readers.  Our work is
wholly unlike any book on the market. It has been completed with
forty-eight short chapters, 393 pages and almost 100,000 words.
Please contact Major George Filer (US Air Force Intelligence,
Ret.) and Robert Trundle via the email Trundle@NKU.EDU

MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative
reports subscribe to the MUFON JOURNAL.  A MUFON membership
includes the Journal and costs only $35.00 per year.  To join
MUFON or to report a UFO go to http://www.mufon.com/.  To ask
questions contact MUFONHQ@aol.com or HQ@mufon.com.  Mention that
I recommended you for membership.

Filer's Files is copyrighted 2003 by George A. Filer, all rights
reserved.  Readers may post the COMPLETE files on their Web
Sites if they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and
list the date of issue.  These reports and comments are not
necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON viewpoint.  Send your letters to
Majorstar@aol.com.  Sending mail automatically grants permission
for us to publish and use your name.  Please state if you wish
to keep your name, address, or story confidential.  CAUTION,
MOST OF THESE ARE INITIAL REPORTS AND REQUIRE FURTHER
INVESTIGATION.


Regards,

George Filer    www.Georgefiler.com









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              'History's Mysteries - Crop Circles' Phone Review

From: Loren Coleman <lcolema1@maine.rr.com>
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 14:14:09 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 01:28:05 -0500
Subject: 'History's Mysteries - Crop Circles' Phone Review


Termite Art, the company that produced the History Channel's
History's Mysteries crop circles episode have placed an
extremely insane, negative, LOL review of their program online.

You will not believe how belly-laughing funny this is:

http://www.termiteart.com/satisfied/satisfied.mp3


Take a break, and have a listen,

Loren







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                         Loaded's Bentwaters Article

From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 20:23:00 -0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 01:29:59 -0500
Subject: Loaded's Bentwaters Article


The April issue of Loaded magazine contains an article on the
Rendlesham Forest incident, as seen through the eyes of two very
different researchers, Georgina Bruni and Brenda Butler.

The tone of the article is as you would expect in a magazine of
this kind, with the staff writer making various 'humorous'
asides. However, given that he had no previous knowledge of the
case, and no vested interest in pushing any particular theory,
the following observation is interesting. The writer is
describing events that took place in the course of a skywatch he
undertook in Rendlesham Forest:

"On turning a corner, Peter points out Orfordness lighthouse in
the distance. As a case for the sceptical defence, it's
ludicrous. It's a tiny blinking pin-prick on the horizon that
you'd easily miss if you weren't looking for it."

There is little that will be new to ufologists, and so-called
Lads' Mags such as Loaded are not to everyone's taste. But the
real benefit of such articles is that they bring the subject to
a new audience. Loaded sells around 350,000 copies in the UK.

Best wishes,

Nick Pope







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                  Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 21:27:30 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 01:32:36 -0500
Subject: Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Hall


 >From: Brenda Denzler <bdenzler1@email.msn.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 08:05:49 -0500
 >Subject: Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism

 >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 00:15:43 +0000
 >>Subject: Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism

 >>Furthermore, what the hell exactly does "post- modern" mean? I
 >>have not heard any definition. In this context, what does "pre-
 >>modern" and "modern" mean? Or are we just playing with words and
 >>claiming that, somehow "truth" (or whatever these post-
 >>modernists substitute as a concept of what we should believe) is
 >>obtainable through literary analysis, but not through scientific
 >>method?

 >From *A Primer on Postmodernism* by Stanley Grenz:
 >Deconstructionists say that "meaning is not inherent in a text
 >itself...but emerges only as the interpreter enters into
 >dialogue with the text....Postmodern philosophers applied the
 >theories of the literary deconstructionists to the world as a
 >whole....Reality will be 'read' differently by each knowing self
 >that encounters it.  This means that there is no one meaning of
 >the world, no transcendent center to reality as a whole....The
 >central dictum of postmodern philosophy:  'All is difference.'
 >This sweeps away the 'uni' of the 'universe' sought by the
 >Enlightenment project.  It abandons the quest for a unifired
 >grasp of objective reality.  It asserts that the world has no
 >center, only differing viewpoints and perspectives....In the
 >postmodern world, people are no longer convinced that knowledge
 >is inherently good....The postmodern mind refuses to limit truth
 >to its rational dimension and thus dethrones the human intellect
 >as the arbiter of truth.  There are other valid paths to
 >knowledge besides reason, say the postmoderns, including the
 >emotions and the intuition.  Finally, the ppostmodern mind no
 >longer accepts the Enlightenment belief that knowledge is
 >objective..., because the universe is not mechanistic...but
 >rather historical, relational, and personal....The postmodern
 >worldview operates with a community-based understanding of
 >truth....They focus instead on what is held to be true within a
 >specific community.  They maintain that truth consists in the
 >ground rules that facilitate the well-being of the
 >community...."  (pp. 6-8).

Brenda,

Thanks. Okay, that's about what I thought. Sure sounds like the
Subjectivism bordering on Solipsism that I encountered in my
studies toward a B.A. in Philosophy. "There are other valid
paths to knowledge..." sounds suspiciously like New Age blather
to me. Without any objective measures of truth, one can charge
off in any direction and believe what one wants.

Science (or more properly, scientific method) may be flawed in
some respects insofar as it at times may not encompass
borderline phenomena as valid subjects as much as it should, but
it's the best we have. I'll take it over intuition and tea-leaf
reading any day.

The Bennett-style post-modernists also sound very much like the
Rationalists of old (though they seem to use the word
differently) in that they reject Empricism and think that by
Pure Reason (unaccompanied by objective facts) they can
determine Truth.

Bah, humbug!


  - Dick







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                       BLM Roswell Site FOIA Response

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net>
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 17:18:14 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 01:36:43 -0500
Subject: BLM Roswell Site FOIA Response


News from the Bureaucratic Land Managers (BLM)

FROM:  U. S. Bureau of Land Management
        Washington, D.C. (via e-mail)

TO:    Larry W. Bryant

DATE:  March 5, 2003

Dear Mr. Bryant,

Reference is made to your letter of February 10, 2003, to Bureau
of Land Management (BLM), General Counsel's Office, indicating
your desire to file a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) appeal
pertaining to the December 11, 2002, response by the BLM New
Mexico State Office, to your November 7, 2002, FOIA request.

By letter dated March 3, 2003, the Department of the Interior's
FOIA Appeals Officer, directed this office to treat your
February 10, 2003, letter as a new request.  I have forwarded
that letter to the BLM New Mexico State Office for further
processing as a new request.

If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me by
email or by phone @ (202) 452-5013.


Regards,

John Livornese
BLM FOIA Policy Administrator

[LWB Note:  the point of contention here centers on the BLM-
  censored exact geographic location of the Roswell, N.M.,
  excavation site from their response to my original FOIA request.
  U.S. tax money at work!]







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              International Scientific & Metaphysical Symposium

From: Diane Harrison <auforn@hypermax.net.au>
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 08:31:24 +1000
Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 01:55:59 -0500
Subject: International Scientific & Metaphysical Symposium


BRISBANE AUSTRALIA
"You'll never never know" "If you never never go"

"All speakers are now fully confirmed"

Well it looks like its full steam ahead for the Brisbane
conference and what a conference its going to be.

Confirmed Speakers are:

Dr Roger Leir USA:
Author of Alien & the Scalpel

Peter Davenport USA:
Director of the National UFO Reporting Center USA

Colin Andrews UK:
International acclaimed author & investigator of Crop Circles

Jennifer Lawson Aust:
Author of Violent Weather Predictions and long - range weather
forecaster

Dr Viera Scheibner Ph.D Aust:
World renowned medical researcher & author of Vaccination.

Duncan Roads Aust:
Editor of Nexus magazine

Bill Chalker Aust:
Author of The OZ Files and one of the most respected UFO
investigators in his field.

Dr Richard Tracy Aust:
Bio Chemist Lecturing on Quantum Physics of the Soul

Travis Walton USA:
Author of the book "Fire in the Sky "
and the hit movie by paramount Pictures.

Victor Viggiani USA:
Board member of the Mutual UFO Network of Ontario and
Contributing Editor of 'Strange Days... Indeed' radio program

Kathleen Andersen USA
A free lance writer she 2 years at the ABC Television
Network in Hollywood California.

Anthony Hansen Aust
New Technologist Engineer and Lecturer
Tesla coil /New Water Engine & much more.


Additional Workshops by

Colin Andrews - Friday night
Travis Walton - Monday morning.

For more information on workshops and conference
please e-mail Glennys Mackay at glenmack@pacific.net.au
or Diane Harrison at auforn@hypermax.net.au

This is a 2 day all inclusive package for only $180
or Be an early bird and pay only $150
(conditions do apply, bookings must be paid by 20th June 2003)
Price includes 6 guest speakers daily, Morning tea - Lunch -
Afternoon tea daily,...... Double click on - Speakers

For more details regarding the menus please visit the link.
Double click on - Menu

Saturday Day 1 - will start at 9.00 am finishing 5.00 p.m sharp
followed by Pre dinner drinks & Gala dinner at 7.00 p.m
Dine with the speakers.

Sunday Day 2 - will start at 9.00 am finishing 8.00 p.m
Followed by a "Researcher only" Dinner
(conditions for dinner bookings do apply please contact Diane
or Glennys for more details)

At an additional cost of $46.00 for conference attendees
Gala Dinner - Live Entertainment

Pre dinner drinks at 7.00 p.m. dinner at 7.30 p.m. going till late.
For more details regarding the menu please visit the above link.



Non Package Price - Individual Pricing

$90.00
For one all day Conference Fee
including - morning tea - Lunch - Afternoon tea

$40.00
Individual Lectures
Student & Pensioner discounts - $25.00 per lecture
(Conditions do apply you must present a Student card
or Pension card)

$15.50
Lunch per day
(Sorry there are no discounts on Meals - Tea or Coffee)
Vegetarian's will be catered for

$6.00 per day
bottomless Tea/Coffee
Tea - Coffee - Juice Pastries

$50.00
Pre dinner drinks - Evening Dinner & Live Entertainment
("you must book to ensure a seat")


Please visit our web link for more details regarding On- line
payments and accommodation. Double click - Brisbane Conference
go to


Kind regards Diane Harrison
Conference Organizer

National Director
The Australian UFO Research Network and UFO Hotline.
Australian Skywatch Director

Co Editor
The Australasian UFOlogist Magazine

Editor Hard Evidence Magazine

Tel number 1800 77 22 888 a Free Call
Australian UFO Research Network -
http://click.to/AUFORN
E-mail auforn@hypermax.net.au

A non profit organisation
PO Box 738
Beaudessert 4285
QLD Australia
Tel 07 55 44 6888







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               Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 10 - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 19:59:23 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 01:57:47 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 10 - Balaskas


 >From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 15:59:02 +0000
 >Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 10

<snip>

 >HOVERING UFO SPOTTED
 >IN PUNE, INDIA

 >      On Monday, February 24, 2003, at 8:30 p.m., Dinesh
 >Hukmani was at home in the city of Pune, in Maharashtra
 >state, India when he spotted a UFO.
 >      "I was relaxing on my fifth-floor balcony, gazing at
 >the stars, when suddenly, in the clear sky amidst lots of
 >stars, there appeared this light, star-like but very
 >bright.  It appeared out of nowhere, grew in intensity,
 >diminished and then disappeared.  It was all over in a
 >matter of three seconds."
 >      Dinesh Hukmani described the UFO as "round in shape,
 >silvery white, star-like, very bright."
 >      Pune (pronounced Poo-nah--J.T.) is located 180
 >kilometers (108 miles) southeast of Mumbai, India's
 >largest city.

Hi everyone!

Although other important and very useful information was not
provided (eg. elevation above the horizon, motion of object in
the sky, etc.) to allow one to make a reasonable attempt to
positively identify this "UFO", from the few facts Dinesh
provided, I would say that what this single witness(?) saw was a
bright meteor.

Just last summer while sitting on the deck in the backyard of my
family's house in Ottawa, I witnessed the very same thing - a
star-like object which grew in brightness so that it was
brighter than any of the stars in the sky before it disappeared
just seconds later. A fireball with a general trajectory towards
the observer will appear this way.

Since the end of astronomical twilight (Sun is 18 degrees below
the horizon) in Pune, India on the date of this UFO sighting
would have been about 7:15 p.m., and the witness does mention
seeing lots of stars in the clear night sky, if Dinesh was
mistaken about the exact time of his sighting, he may have
witnessed an "Iridium flare", or a sudden brightening of a
satellite at about 6:50 p.m. (Iridium 65 in his case) when many
stars would still be visible. If it was this Iridium flare
(about half way up in the sky from the horizon) what Dinesh saw,
he would certainly have reported it as a UFO sighting too since
for a second or two it would have outshone even the planet Venus
at its brightest.

Nick Balaskas







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                  Postmodernism [was: The Dark Side Of...]

From: Tom Bowden <tomrbowden@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 17:43:58 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 02:01:47 -0500
Subject: Postmodernism [was: The Dark Side Of...]


 >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 12:19:35 -0800
 >Subject: Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism

 >Forgive me for this, but can anyone give a clear,
 >concise, and cogent definition of Post-Modernism in
 >say 100 words or less?

<snip>


Larry,

I will give it a try. I gather from reading some posts that it
is a relatively recent (?) philosophy that repudiates the
establishment of objective reality, where objective reality was
previously assumed to be defined based on a collective consent
that we "all" can see, hear, touch and therefore agree that we
know the same facts about the physical world (Modernism??).

It is kind of a "yes, but" appended to this common-sense
approach to the world in the context we think of as physical
reality, where you can imagine someone saying, "Yes, but you
really don't know if I see this thing the same as you do, or
that these sounds sound the same to me as they do to you", etc.

I supposed this means that anyone's attempts to explain anything
in terms of scientific data are futile in the mind of a post-
modernist because everything is open to interpretation based on
each individual's reality context, therefore there is no
possible absolute standard of concrete, scientific evidence.

This is the kind of stuff that some people love to expound
about, but it appears that people who really can accomplish
anything of any use in the world never waste one moment thinking
about this sort of stuff.

There. I did not count the words, but I gave it my best shot.
Anyone who does not like my definition should take a stab at it,
but if they intend to get deeper into philosobabble, no one is
going to understand it anyway. Furthermore, they can just decide
that this posting, and indeed this entire list is not real
according to their interpretation of reality, and then who gives
a . . .

Never mind.

Tom B.






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                        Kecksburg FOIA Request To FBI

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net>
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 23:15:53 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 08:30:07 -0500
Subject: Kecksburg FOIA Request To FBI


TO:    Director
        U. S. Federal Bureau of Investigation
        ATTN:  Freedom of Information Manager
        Washington, DC  20535

FROM:  Larry W. Bryant
        3518 Martha Custis Drive
        Alexandria, VA  22302

DATE:  March 5, 2003

Certain witnesses to, and victims of, the military-led retrieval
of a mysterious crash-landed craft on Dec. 9, 1965, near
Kecksburg, Pa., have become the focus of a citizens petition now
circulating via the Internet website of
http://www.signpetition.com/index.html

The petition calls for a GAO/congressional investigation into
the events, principals, activities, motivations, and aftermath
surrounding what has become known as the Kecksburg UFO Incident.

In the interest of supporting this long-overdue public
initiative toward ferreting out the truth about Kecksburg, I
hereby submit this letter as a formal freedom-of-information
request that you send me a copy of all FBI-received and FBI-
generated records pertaining to the incident, said records to
include the following:

(1)  Correspondence, telegrams, memoranda of telephone
conversations, minutes of meetings, memoranda for record,
document-transmittal slips, legal opinions, interview
transcripts, local-law-enforcement incident reports, laboratory
analyses of retrieved wreckage/occupants, forensic-analysis
reports as to any alien-originated documentation, military-
liaison reports, the retrieval team's after-action reports, and
all related intelligence assessments.

(2)  All FBI-originated/maintained dossiers on any private
investigator/researcher associated with the Kecksburg case.

As you conduct your records search in compliance with this
request, I ask that it include all files originated by and
maintained by the FBI field office(s) serving the county of
Westmoreland, Pa.

Since I make this request as a member of the UFO-awareness press
(mainly as a columnist for the Internet website of
http://www.ufocity.com ), and on behalf of the public's interest
in knowing (and assessing) how FBI personnel collect,
investigate, document, disseminate, and maintain UFO-encounter
reports, I ask that you waive all records-search fees incident
to your fulfilling it.

Please note that I'm snail-mailing to you a signed printout of
this e-formatted request.



LARRY W. BRYANT
Director, Washington, D.C., Office of
Citizens Against UFO Secrecy

Copies furnished to:

   Mark S. Zaid, Esq. (Washington, D.C.)

   Peter Robbins, Editor-in-Chief, UFOcity.com

   Louis Kannon





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                             Aztec UFO Symposium

From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
Date: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 11:57 PM
Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 11:34:09 -0500
Subject: Aztec UFO Symposium


Well, it looks like Jim Moseley ain't gonna be able to make it
to the 5th Annual Aztec UFO Symposium this year, so I've been
asked to try and fill his shoes and have agreed. Now that kinda
grabs my goat... I wanted him to autograph my copy of 'Shockingly
Close to the Truth', but now that ain't gonna happen. Shucky
Darn!!

I think everyone out there in UFO UpDates-Land ought to get your
reservations in for the event. Why, you ask? Well, you see,
since I'm filling in for the Commandant Klinger of 'Saucer
Smear' and Karl (my balloon theory on Roswell isn't a bag of
gas) Pflock is going to be there, it should be a hoot and a
holler of a good time.

Better yet, Peter (Sasshaying on the Butte in Robes of Purple)
Gersten is going to be there too! Well, I don't think I need to
draw you a picture that this scene is going to be the Ufology
event of the decade. <G>

I'm looking forward to the evening sky watch event...man, I
wanna see that Mothership of Adamski visit the multitude!
Believe me, I've put in for the flashlight concession.

Now, I'm really looking forward to smoozing with Dr. Bruce
(there's a breeze in my gulf) Maccabee. He's one of my heros in
Ufology and now I can corner him and make him sign my copy of
his book, 'UFO/FBI Connection', because I did him a favor by
looking at it before he sent it to the publisher to make sure he
had the new Project SIGN stuff right... I got a free copy of the
book, but what do I gotta do to get it autographed? Meet him in
Aztec, NM of all places! Jeez!! That's OK. I'll let him look at
my Polaroids! <G>

Ol' Nick Redfern is gonna be there too! I'm so excited, cause I
want to rub his head for luck. I've got a photo of him looking
like Yul Brenner incarnate and as a young lass, I just had the
drools for Yul in 'The King and I'. It will be nice to "whot,
whot" with one of our own from across the pond. Pip, pip, Cheerio
and all that sort of rot!

Stan Friedman is coming (wild Cibola's couldn't stop him) too.
He's gonna MJ-12 us to the n'th degree and maybe I can get him
to actually trim his beard while he's here in the high desert of
New Mexico. Actually, Stan comes here a lot and is now
officially recognized as honorary New Mexican. Am I the only one
who thinks he looks more like the Downey Fabric Softener teddy
bear as the years pass? <G>

Rob Swiatek is gonna breeze in and give a talk. Rob's a neat
guy. Haven't seen him since we congregated at Richard Hall's
house two years ago and then chowed down at a local choke and
gag. Rob, if your reading this, I'll have the you-know-what
ready for elbow bending exercises. Richard Hall will just have
to grin and bear it, pal. When you get back, tell him I'll send
another St. Bernard his way soon. <G>

Well, it should be a lot of fun at this years event. Ya all come
now, ya here? And bring money for flashlights and batteries
($300 per person)...I know a lot of neat blind canyons we can
snipe hunt in and give ol' Doc Greer some competition.


Wendy Connors

First Lady of Ufology
aka the Wicked Witch of Ufology by the riff-raff elements






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                          Re: Postmodernism - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 00:40:32 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 18:24:48 -0500
Subject: Re: Postmodernism - Hatch


 >From: Tom Bowden <tomrbowden@yahoo.com>
 >Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 17:43:58 -0800 (PST)
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism

 >>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 12:19:35 -0800
 >>Subject: Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism

 >>Forgive me for this, but can anyone give a clear,
 >>concise, and cogent definition of Post-Modernism in
 >>say 100 words or less?

 ><snip>

 >Larry,

 >I will give it a try. I gather from reading some posts that it
 >is a relatively recent (?) philosophy that repudiates the
 >establishment of objective reality, where objective reality was
 >previously assumed to be defined based on a collective consent
 >that we "all" can see, hear, touch and therefore agree that we
 >know the same facts about the physical world (Modernism??).

 >It is kind of a "yes, but" appended to this common-sense
 >approach to the world in the context we think of as physical
 >reality, where you can imagine someone saying, "Yes, but you
 >really don't know if I see this thing the same as you do, or
 >that these sounds sound the same to me as they do to you", etc.

 >I supposed this means that anyone's attempts to explain anything
 >in terms of scientific data are futile in the mind of a post-
 >modernist because everything is open to interpretation based on
 >each individual's reality context, therefore there is no
 >possible absolute standard of concrete, scientific evidence.

 >This is the kind of stuff that some people love to expound
 >about, but it appears that people who really can accomplish
 >anything of any use in the world never waste one moment thinking
 >about this sort of stuff.

 >There. I did not count the words, but I gave it my best shot.
 >Anyone who does not like my definition should take a stab at it,
 >but if they intend to get deeper into philosobabble, no one is
 >going to understand it anyway. Furthermore, they can just decide
 >that this posting, and indeed this entire list is not real
 >according to their interpretation of reality, and then who gives
 >a . . .

 >Never mind.

 >Tom B.

Hello Tom:

I think you have a fine working definition. That plus Brenda's
quotations from *Primer on Postmodernism* by Stanley Grenz tell
me all I need to know.

And yes, nobody who knows how to do anything will waste any time
on it. This is the stuff of people who cannot handle an
objective world, so they try to dis-invent it.

Little wonder I could never get a straight answer whether the
Moon exists or not. Now back to other matters. Your word count
was fine.


Best wishes

- Larry






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               Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Dabrowski

From: Andrew Dabrowski <dabrowsa@indiana.edu>
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 00:45:17 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 18:26:11 -0500
Subject: Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Dabrowski


 >From: Laurel Oplatka <calabash2003@webtv.net>
 >Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 19:12:03 -0800 (PST)
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism

 >I want to say
 >that PM craves an end to the dominance of scientific
 >rationality, instead urging an all-embracing approach,
 >emphasizing the importance and relevance of the subconscious, a
 >plurality of viewpoints, images, mystery, magic and myth.

I agree that science shouldn't "dominate" human affairs, but too
often pomo seems itself to present a cursed "binary" choice, of
rationality or imagination, as if the two were mutually
exclusive. On the contrary, it is our duty as intelligent beings
to try for as much of both as possible.

 >In Colin's magical PM recipe, we find blended a sense of the
 >metaphysical, a quantum world view and a really witty sense of
 >play/humor.

That phrase "quantum world view" is a good example of what makes
me distrust pomo: it's impressive sounding but vague to the
point of meaninglessness.

 >I think the following is also relevant to the PM sensibility and
 >I assume we can at least agree on this point: " Science seeks to
 >prove the invisible by the visible; metaphysics seeks to
 >demonstrate the 'reality' of the invisible in the visible." (Ann
 >M. Lavalee).

Both noble goals.


Andrew Dabrowski






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                   Re: Another Abduction Question - Sparks

From: Brad Sparks
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 00:44:31 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 18:27:44 -0500
Subject: Re: Another Abduction Question - Sparks


 >From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm@arrakis.es>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 22:25:22 +0100
 >Subject: Re: Another Abduction Question - Gonzalez

 >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 16:53:03 +0000
 >>Subject: Re: Another Abduction Question - Hall

 >>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 15:57:22 +0000
 >>>Subject: Re: Another Abduction Question

 >>>From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm@arrakis.es>
 >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 16:44:29 +0100
 >>>Subject: Re: Another Abduction Question

<snip>

 >One of the thing that more surprise me about some "hard"
 >ufologists is how they do not want to realise that the UFO
 >phenomenon is just part of a "continuum". It coexists with BVM
 >visions, ghosts, cryptozoological creatures, "brain control"
 >victims, etc.. Their evidences are all of the same degree.


Hi Luis,

That is just not true, the "evidences" of those phenomena are
_not_ to the "same degree" as with UFO's. There are _no_
phototheodolite trackings of "ghosts" and Blessed Virgin Mary
apparitions, as there are for UFO's. There are no triangulations
of mysterious "visions." There are no Electronic Intelligence
measurements of radar-like transmissions from radar-visual
cryptozoological specimens.

 >Besides that, when I talk about the UFO phemomenon I refer also
 >to the high percentage 80-90%? of cases which had
 >"conventional" explanations. You cannot dismiss all that and say
 >that your few selected cases have an ET origin, and everything
 >else is _not_ real.

Again that is flatly not true, there is no such "high percentage
80-90%" of _UFO_ cases somehow ending up with conventional
explanations. Most witnesses do not even report seeing a "UFO"
or "flying saucer" or "spacecraft." Just look at NUFORC's online
catalogs of thousands of sightings, only about 5% of the
sightings are labeled a "UFO" by witnesses. Same with other
sighting databases. Most of the time the "UFO" label is slapped
on by the reporting agency -- military base, news media, or UFO
group.

So, roughly 95% of all sightings are from the start _not_ UFO's
at all but in an undetermined holding category. A "UFO" report
is not just what some nitwit enthusiast declares in some
pathetic fan club newsletter to be a "UFO." And a UFO is not
defined as such just because a witness might say that. A witness
can see something that he/she is fully convinced is an IFO and a
scientist can come along and conclude that the witness is wrong,
it's a UFO and the IFO identification is mistaken. Witnesses are
not the scientists of their case. Witnesses do not get to
control the scientific analysis of their sightings. But neither
should they be slandered and misrepresented as saying things
they never said. If witnesses do not say they saw a "UFO" or
"spaceship" then it is slander to come along and say they _did_
and then to perversely knock down the strawman thus set up and
say "the witness" is wrong, it was _not_ a UFO but an IFO. This
is a sick game and it needs to stop.

As J. Allen Hynek defined the UFO problem a "UFO" is the subject
of a sighting report that has gone through a scientific-
technical screening process by _competent_ personnel (not
hobbyists and crackpots) to eliminate IFO's and conventional
explanations.

If the Hynek screening process has not been done then you don't
have a UFO or an IFO. You have nothing but unfiltered noise with
an unknown amount of signal or no signal at all. It's just
garbage. Once screened, cases may be investigated. Screening
does not require field investigation but may include it. Proper
Hynek-type screening results in a small number of UFO's, a large
number of undecided Insufficient Data, and a small number of
IFO's. Insufficient Data is not the same thing as an IFO -- that
deliberate confusion is an old Blue Book debunker trick designed
to inflate the IFO statistics for propaganda purposes.

Most Hynek-type properly screened UFO's do not become IFO's if
properly screened. And as I have pointed out many times on this
List, even the Condon Report shows that witnesses were about
97%-98% accurate in observational details (not interpretations),
judging by IFO cases used as control samples.

Debunkers desire to win by fraud and dirty tricks, since truth
is not their object. Debunkers seek to mask any real UFO
phenomenon in a mass of poor data, unscreened reports, and
irrelevant folklore tales. They always trot out the bogus "95%
of all UFO's are actually IFO's" canard (or whatever % figure of
the moment), which goes back to Project Blue Book in the 50's.
They twist definitions (or ignore them) to bloat the "UFO"
category to include every piece of garbage possible then to
dismiss it _all_ as garbage, sweeping with it scientifically
credible UFO data as well. It is time to blow the whistle on
this charade.


Regards,


Brad Sparks






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   Mar > Mar 6

              Re: Kecksburg Petition CFI Press Release - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 06:39:09 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 18:34:51 -0500
Subject: Re: Kecksburg Petition CFI Press Release - Kaeser


 >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 07:49:35 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Kecksburg Petition CFI Press Release

[grammar and sentence construction correction]

In my previous post in this thread I began with:

 >I believe that Kecksberg was selected because it involves an
 >incident that involves multiple witnesses and military action
 >that can't be denied, and the fact that FOIA requests have been
 >denied for national security reasons.

It should have been re-written to read:

"I believe that Kecksburg was selected because it involved
multiple witnesses, military action that cannot be denied, and
the fact that FOIA requests were denied for national security
reasons."

This is what I get for re-editing my responses over and over
while distracted by real work at my day job. Consider my wrists
slapped.

Steve






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                         Re: Postmodernism - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 06:53:18 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 18:36:37 -0500
Subject: Re: Postmodernism - Kaeser


 >From: Tom Bowden <tomrbowden@yahoo.com>
 >Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 17:43:58 -0800 (PST)
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism

<snip>

Tom wrote:

 >I supposed this means that anyone's attempts to explain anything
 >in terms of scientific data are futile in the mind of a post-
 >modernist because everything is open to interpretation based on
 >each individual's reality context, therefore there is no
 >possible absolute standard of concrete, scientific evidence.

I think this, in part, depends on what we are trying to define
by "reality". Is it the physical reality we all exist in (as
defined by science), or our interpretation of that reality? From
a psychological perspective, we all view the world, in part,
according to our own accepted beliefs and facts which is
somewhat like trying to identify colors while looking through a
red filter (bad example, but you probably get the point).

For a rather long look at the difference between "modernism" and
"postmodernism", you can go to:

http://www.colorado.edu/English/ENGL2012Klages/pomo.html

This, unfortunately, contains a fair amount of the
"philosobabble" you referred to.

Then, if you're really curious you can find out more about
"postmodernism" vs. "post-postmodernism" at:

http://jonmattox.com/grids/ideas/postmodernism.html

These are both excellent examples of why I really didn't like
philosophy in school. Talk about a bottomless pit.


Steve







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                         Re: Postmodernism - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 09:31:51 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 18:48:31 -0500
Subject: Re: Postmodernism - Ledger


 >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 21:27:30 +0000
 >Subject: Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism

 >>From: Brenda Denzler <bdenzler1@email.msn.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 08:05:49 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism

 >>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 00:15:43 +0000
 >>>Subject: Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism

 >>>Furthermore, what the hell exactly does "post- modern" mean? I
 >>>have not heard any definition. In this context, what does "pre-
 >>>modern" and "modern" mean? Or are we just playing with words and
 >>>claiming that, somehow "truth" (or whatever these post-
 >>>modernists substitute as a concept of what we should believe) is
 >>>obtainable through literary analysis, but not through scientific
 >>>method?

 >>From *A Primer on Postmodernism* by Stanley Grenz:

 >>Deconstructionists say that "meaning is not inherent in a text
 >>itself...but emerges only as the interpreter enters into
 >>dialogue with the text....Postmodern philosophers applied the
 >>theories of the literary deconstructionists to the world as a
 >>whole....Reality will be 'read' differently by each knowing self
 >>that encounters it. This means that there is no one meaning of
 >>the world, no transcendent center to reality as a whole....The
 >>central dictum of postmodern philosophy: 'All is difference.'
 >>This sweeps away the 'uni' of the 'universe' sought by the
 >>Enlightenment project. It abandons the quest for a unifired
 >>grasp of objective reality. It asserts that the world has no
 >>center, only differing viewpoints and perspectives....In the
 >>postmodern world, people are no longer convinced that knowledge
 >>is inherently good....The postmodern mind refuses to limit truth
 >>to its rational dimension and thus dethrones the human intellect
 >>as the arbiter of truth. There are other valid paths to
 >>knowledge besides reason, say the postmoderns, including the
 >>emotions and the intuition. Finally, the ppostmodern mind no
 >>longer accepts the Enlightenment belief that knowledge is
 >>objective..., because the universe is not mechanistic...but
 >>rather historical, relational, and personal....The postmodern
 >>worldview operates with a community-based understanding of
 >>truth....They focus instead on what is held to be true within a
 >>specific community. They maintain that truth consists in the
 >>ground rules that facilitate the well-being of the
 >>community...." (pp. 6-8).

 >Thanks. Okay, that's about what I thought. Sure sounds like
 >the Subjectivism bordering on Solipsism that I encountered in my
 >studies toward a B.A. in Philosophy. "There are other valid
 >paths to knowledge..." sounds suspiciously like New Age blather
 >to me. Without any objective measures of truth, one can charge
 >off in any direction and believe what one wants.

 >Science (or more properly, scientific method) may be flawed in
 >some respects insofar as it at times may not encompass
 >borderline phenomena as valid subjects as much as it should, but
 >it's the best we have. I'll take it over intuition and tea-leaf
 >reading any day.

 >The Bennett-style post-modernists also sound very much like
 >the Rationalists of old (though they seem to use the word
 >differently) in that they reject Empricism and think that by
 >Pure Reason (unaccompanied by objective facts) they can
 >determine Truth.

 >Bah, humbug!


Hi Dick,

My thinking exactly. Self grandizement by the pompous. You can
bet that some good universities are now being rooked by what
were once called mystics. Or if I prove what I'm saying then
we're missing the whole point.

Horse droppings is still horse droppings no matter what name you
put on it.


Don Ledger








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                        Re: Secrecy News -- 03/06/03

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 11:47:28 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 18:55:17 -0500
Subject: Re: Secrecy News -- 03/06/03


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2003, Issue No. 20
March 6, 2003


**      DEFENSE INTELLIGENCE HISTORY UNVEILED
**      A PALESTINIAN CONSTITUTION
**      HISTORY OF THE ARAB-ISRAELI CONFLICT
**      IN THE NEWS


DEFENSE INTELLIGENCE HISTORY UNVEILED

U.S. military intelligence has lately assumed new prominence
with the establishment of an Under Secretary of Defense for
Intelligence, expanding roles and missions, and growing budgets.
Now, rather unexpectedly, the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA)
is asserting itself in a different way by publishing collections
of declassified documents on the history of the 40 year old
agency.

"As DIA enters its fourth decade of preeminence in Defense
intelligence support, we have an obligation to DIA employees,
the public, and historians to unveil the previously classified
materials on the origins and accomplishments of this Agency,"
wrote Vice Admiral Lowell E. Jacoby, the DIA Director, in the
preface to a handsome new volume entitled "At the Creation:
1961-1965."

"The 104 specially selected documents tell our early story from
1961 to 1965," Adm. Jacoby wrote. "In the near future, we will
publish additional volumes covering the years from 1965 to the
present."

"At the Creation," a 486 page collection edited by Deane J.
Allen and Brian G. Shellum and published by the DIA History
Office, reproduces facsimiles of original documents, or carbon
copies thereof, and encompasses the agency's creation, the
establishment of its internal directorates, and assorted
administrative policies.

Opening the thing at random, Secrecy News was pleased to
discover a 1962 Pentagon memorandum recommending "that the total
dollars as well as the total number of positions for DIA... be
considered as unclassified information."

Realistically, the new volume will be read only by a small
subset of intelligence historians and former employees. Others
are likely to find it boring or incomprehensible. Accordingly,
it has been produced in a limited edition and will not be sold
through the Government Printing Office. Copies may be available
through DIA Freedom of Information Act channels.


A PALESTINIAN CONSTITUTION

"Old patterns of conflict in the Middle East can be broken, if
all concerned will let go of bitterness, hatred, and violence,
and get on with the serious work of economic development, and
political reform, and reconciliation," said President Bush in a
February 26 speech. "America will seize every opportunity in
pursuit of peace. And the end of the present regime in Iraq
would create such an opportunity."

It is far from self-evident how a U.S. war to topple Saddam
Hussein could lead in some sequential way, as the President
suggested, to "two states, Israel and Palestine, living side by
side in peace and security."

But one gesture toward political reform, proffered by the
Palestinian Authority, is a new draft Constitution for a future
State of Palestine.

The text of the new draft Constitution, published in Al-Ayyam on
February 17 and translated, rather stiffly, by the CIA's Foreign
Broadcast Information Service, may be found here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2003/02/paconst.html

The new draft drew criticism from the Hamas terrorist group as
well as the Israeli government. A Hamas official told the
Palestine Chronicle that a Constitution was premature as long as
there was no Palestinian state, and that the whole initiative
was an undue concession to the Bush Administration "roadmap." An
Israeli official objected to some of the historical references
in the document and questioned some procedural aspects in a
March 4 article by Aluf Benn in Haaretz.


HISTORY OF THE ARAB-ISRAELI CONFLICT

The State Department has recently posted on its web site the
full text of the Foreign Relations of the United States (FRUS)
volume on the Near East, 1961-1962, which documents official
views of various aspects of the Arab-Israeli conflict in those
years, U.S. policy towards Iran and Nasser's Egypt, Israel's
nascent nuclear program, and related topics.

"We have been assured categorically at the highest level of the
Israeli Government that Israel has no plans for the production
of atomic weapons," according to a declassified 1961 State
Department memo included in the volume. The evolution of
Israel's nuclear weapons program was traced in Avner Cohen's
book "Israel and the Bomb" (Columbia University Press, 1998).

Foreign Relations of the United States, 1961-1963, vol. XVII,
Near East, 1961-1962, was published in hard copy in 1994.
It may now be found here:

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/frus/kennedyjf/xvii/


IN THE NEWS

"Dozens of new rules -- on the books and under development --
  govern who can come into the United States to work on
scientific projects, who can work with dangerous organisms or
sensitive technologies, how that work will be carried out and
how widely the results can be reported.... Many fear the
security crackdown will backfire, hampering studies that are
critical to thwarting terrorists."

See "Security concerns imperil research" by Glennda Chui, San
Jose Mercury News, March 3:

http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/news/5303757.htm

A petition asking the Supreme Court to revisit a 1953 ruling on
state secrets, alleging that it had been based on false
government information (SNews, 03/04/03), "was so unusual that
the staff at the Supreme Court clerk's office didn't know what
to do with it when it was filed last week - and returned it,"
according to the Philadelphia Inquirer. Attorney Wilson M. Brown
III said the petition would be refiled this week.

See "Unearthed military secret brings new life to old case" by
L. Stuart Ditzen, Philadelphia Inquirer, March 5:

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/local/5316568.htm

Rep. Chris Shays, chairman of a House national security
subcommittee, is pursuing the question of "whether Bush
administration officials passed classified information to
journalist Bob Woodward for 'Bush at War,' his latest best-
  selling book." See "Shays queries Woodward leaks" by Jonathan
E. Kaplan, The Hill, March 6:

http://www.thehill.com/news/030503/woodward.aspx

"What is the procedure for declassifying [Russian] documents
that are part of the country's history?" See "FSB Declassifies
Over 100 Documents" by Alexandra Samarina, Moscow News, March 5:

http://www.mn.ru/english/issue.php?2003-8-16

The Department of Homeland Security once held out the promise of
transcending the divisions that undermined the U.S. intelligence
community's counterterrorism posture. But it didn't work out
that way.

The bureaucratic collision between the new Department and the
old intelligence bureaucracy is scrutinized by Laura Rozen in
"Intelligence Deficient," The American Prospect, March 6:

http://www.prospect.org/webfeatures/2003/03/rozen-l-03-06.html



_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:  www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email: saftergood@fas.org
voice: (202) 454-4691






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                  Re: Filer's Files #10 -- 2003 - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 12:07:38 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 18:57:13 -0500
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #10 -- 2003 - Balaskas


 >From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 12:41:03 EST
 >Subject: Filer's Files #10 -- 2003

<snip>

 >ORB PHOTOS IN SPOKANE, AND ON LAKE ONTARIO SIMILAR -- Jennifer
 >Jarvis of Orbwatch reports that Judge Ed's photos in Spokane
 >Washington, are very similar to photos taken over Lake Ontario
 >near Toronto, Canada.  I would like to direct you to this page
 >on the Orbwatch where there are comparison photos. Thanks to
 >Jennifer Jarvis, orb watch  contact@orbwatch.com
 >http://fierycelt.tripod.com/ont_wa/ont_valley.html

<snip>

Hi everyone!

Anyone who lives within 100 kilometers or so from a large
airport will have seen these same orbs moving very low above the
horizon in the general direction of these airports. They seem to
zig-zag, change size or brightness and are often orange or red
in colour - much like the setting Sun or Moon at these same
elevations above the horizon. Many of the orbs which I have
witnessed, including a location just west of Toronto in Oakville
where Jennifer has made many of her sightings, seemed pop out or
submerge in the distant south-west horizon across Lake Ontario.

The fact that there is a busy international airport that serves
Niagara Falls and Buffalo, New York just beyond the horizon in
that same south-west direction from Oakville and mirages do
occur at the horizon (once while returning from Niagara Falls I
was shocked to see an inverted image of the entire Toronto
skyline across the lake hovering just above the real skyline!)
would in my opinion account for the many orb sightings seen
around this region of Lake Ontario.


Nick Balaskas

P.S. UFO UpDates subscribers who live close to Toronto may be
interested a special presentation by the Toronto Ghosts and
Hauntings Research Society on the mysterious "Scugog lights"
which continue to be seen by many who live or visit Lake Scugog
to the north-east of Toronto. Please contact me directly for
further details if you are interested.






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   Mar > Mar 6

                     Re: Aztec UFO Symposium - Hamilton

From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 10:48:35 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 19:01:28 -0500
Subject: Re: Aztec UFO Symposium - Hamilton


On Thu, 06 Mar 2003 11:34:09 -0500, "UFO UpDates - Toronto"
<ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>said:
 >From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 11:57 PM
 >Subject: Aztec UFO Symposium

 >Well, it looks like Jim Moseley ain't gonna be able to make it
 >to the 5th Annual Aztec UFO Symposium this year, so I've been
 >asked to try and fill his shoes and have agreed. Now that kinda
 >grabs my goat... I wanted him to autograph my copy of 'Shockingly
 >Close to the Truth', but now that ain't gonna happen. Shucky
 >Darn!!

 >I think everyone out there in UFO UpDates-Land ought to get your
 >reservations in for the event. Why, you ask? Well, you see,
 >since I'm filling in for the Commandant Klinger of 'Saucer
 >Smear' and Karl (my balloon theory on Roswell isn't a bag of
 >gas) Pflock is going to be there, it should be a hoot and a
 >holler of a good time.

 >Better yet, Peter (Sasshaying on the Butte in Robes of Purple)
 >Gersten is going to be there too! Well, I don't think I need to
 >draw you a picture that this scene is going to be the Ufology
 >event of the decade. <G>

He was there the year I spoke too, but no Robes of Purple. He
did have any eye for the girls though.

 >I'm looking forward to the evening sky watch event...man, I
 >wanna see that Mothership of Adamski visit the multitude!
 >Believe me, I've put in for the flashlight concession.

By golly, it has been years - since 1957 that I saw that
Adamski-type Mothership over Yucca Valley, CA. I waved when it
went by, but got no response. Maybe they didn't see me or were
just being rude.

- Bill Hamilton







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                     Bush, Reagan & Life In Outer Space

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 10:02:36 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 10:02:36 -0500
Subject: Bush, Reagan & Life In Outer Space

http://icnewcastle.icnetwork.co.uk/ic/thejournal/page.cfm?objectid=12694748&meth
od=full&siteid=50081


George Bush, Reagan and life in outer space

Mar 3 2003

By Peter Leathley, The Journal


George W Bush's budget suggests aliens could exist somewhere in
the depths of space.

A brief passage called Where Are the Real Space Aliens? mentions
scientific discoveries in the past decade which indicate
"habitable worlds" in outer space may be much more prevalent
than once thought. The finds include evidence of large bodies of
water on Jupiter's moons and Mars.

With the threat of war on the horizon, Mr Bush could learn
something from UFO enthusiast Ronald Reagan who, addressing the
United Nations General Assembly in 1987, said: "In our obsession
with antagonisms of the moment, we often forget how much unites
all the members of humanity. Perhaps we need some outside,
universal threat to make us recognise this common bond. I
occasionally think how quickly our differences worldwide would
vanish if we were facing an alien threat from outside this
world."

Ronald Reagan had a keen interest in UFOs and often spoke of
alien invasions. His daughter Patti Davis described him as
"fascinated with stories about unidentified flying objects and
the possibility of life on other worlds". His alien interest may
have stemmed from UFO sightings he had when he was governor of
California.

After one, in 1974, he said: "I was in a plane last week when I
looked out the window and saw this white light. It was
zigzagging around. I went up to the pilot and said, `Have you
seen anything like that before?' He was shocked and said,
`Nope.' And I said to him: `Let's follow it!'

When Reagan became President, White House staff went to great
lengths to conceal his assertion that he had seen a flying
saucer and his belief that there was a ghost in the Lincoln
bedroom. There was also an effort to discourage Reagan from
talking about two other topics he liked - Armageddon and
astrology.







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                    NASA/SOHO - How to Make Your Own UFO

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 10:09:38 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 10:09:38 -0500
Subject: NASA/SOHO - How to Make Your Own UFO

http://soho.nascom.nasa.gov/hotshots/2003_01_17/


Hot Shots from SOHO
How to Make Your Own UFO

Caption:  Ever since launch, there's been a number of people
who've claimed to have seen flying saucers and other esoteric
objects in SOHO images. Although some of these supposed pictures
of UFOs can seem quite intriguing, they have always turned out
to have a quite ordinary cause when examined by experienced SOHO
scientists. In recent days, we've been receiving so many
questions and claims that we'd like to set the record straight:
We've never seen anything that even suggests that there are UFOs
"out there".

In the past we've been accused of "covering up" UFO evidence
when we present our explanations, and of "refusing to comment"
(or "clamming up") when we give up on somebody who won't accept
our explanations. While we don't expect to convince everybody,
we hope that this page (and links herein) can provide some
information for the curious who want to investigate the claims
on their own.

Most commonly, UFO claims are due to perfectly natural flaws or
artifacts in our publicly available data. Quoting from one of
the replies sent by a SOHO scientist in response to a question
from the public:

   The most common sources of UFO claims are:

* Planets: These always look very strange in LASCO images,
because they're so bright that the image blooms, and the CCD
pixels bleed along the readout rows. Some people try to claim
that they're flying saucers, based on their appearance. I've
also heard the claim that they're previously unknown Saturn-like
planets with rings around them. You can see what I'm talking
about on this SOHO Hot Shot page.

* Cosmic rays: High energy particles from the solar wind,
and from the galaxy as a whole, whip around the SOHO spacecraft
and interact with the detectors. These produce spots and streaks
on the detector ranging from a single pixel, to large streaks
that span a large fraction of the image. These are most evident
during a solar storm, as can be seen on this Hot Shot page, but
are always present at some level. I know that some people have
claimed that they've seen spacecraft-looking things that seem to
be moving around, but which are obviously cosmic rays when
examined by an experienced observer. People see a cosmic ray at
one location in one image, and then another random cosmic ray
hit nearby in the next image, and claim they're both the same
thing moving between frames.

Sometimes you'll see a cosmic ray seem to persist in the
web images for two or more frames. This is because we lose a
certain percentage of the data coming down from the spacecraft.
In LASCO such losses appear as square blocks in the image. The
software which puts the images up on the web will fill in these
blocks from the last good image, and if there's a cosmic ray in
that block from the previous image, it will appear in this image
as well. The way to check for this is to look at the raw data
files, which are also available on the web through the SOHO
catalog interface.

* Software glitches: Occasionally we'll have some problems
with the software which produce the images for the web, and
strange artifacts will appear in the data. These glitches are
usually corrected within a few days. In fact, we had a couple of
instances of that recently.

* Detector defects: There are defects which appear in the
cameras from time to time, sometimes temporary and sometimes
permanent. I remember seeing a web site which claimed that
strange lights were hovering over the lower left limb of the Sun
in EIT images, and thought to myself "You only just noticed
that?". Those defects have been around forever, and were seen in
the lab even before SOHO was launched.

Debris: Small pieces of aging insulation on the outside of
the spacecraft, dust particles, micrometeorites etc can show up
in pictures. Visit the LASCO Debris Lists and Images page for
more details.

On the general subject of UFO claims from SOHO images, one
should be aware that a lot of the supposed UFO pictures taken by
SOHO have been modified by the proponents. For example, looking
at the image that is distributed with the news release for the
upcoming UFO conference, it's obvious that the picture is taken
from a tiny number of pixels in the camera, and then passed
through some kind of smoothing filter to make it look like a
craft with rounded edges. They should at least have the courage
to show the actual data, and not something which has been
manipulated in Photoshop. In the example above, where the
original image was "revealed" through the timestamp, we have
shown how easy it can be to manipulate pictures into showing
UFO-like features.

That all said, it should be noted that we do see objects moving
in SOHO images. Over 500 comets have been discovered in SOHO
images, most by amateurs using LASCO data which have been
downloaded from the web. That's more comets than from any other
observatory, either from the ground or in space. People are
looking for moving objects in these pictures all the time, and
are highly motivated to find them. None of them have ever turned
out to be anything other than comets.More about comets observed
by SOHO on this SOHO Hot Shot page.

Credits: Newspaper article from Perth Sunday Times (Australia;
not affiliated with the UK newspaper The Sunday Times). Many
thanks to those who contributed their time & and resources to
this article. The EIT image credit is "SOHO/EIT (ESA & NASA).






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   Mar > Mar 7

                         Northern Ireland Contacts?

From: Brenda Denzler <bdenzler1@email.msn.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 21:13:13 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 10:24:43 -0500
Subject: Northern Ireland Contacts?


Folks:

Can anyone from the U.K. on this list tell me whether there are
any decent UFO groups that meet in N. Ireland?  I just received
a survey response from a woman who reports having had abduction
experiences, but she has told virtually no one before and knows
of no UFO groups in her area. She'd like to make contact with
some, from the sound of her survey responses.


Brenda Denzler







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                        Re: Postmodernism - Jacobson

From: Eric Jacobson <ejacobson74@attbi.com>
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 22:27:39 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 10:27:41 -0500
Subject: Re: Postmodernism - Jacobson


 >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 06:53:18 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Postmodernism

 >>From: Tom Bowden <tomrbowden@yahoo.com>
 >>Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 17:43:58 -0800 (PST)
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Subject: Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism

 ><snip>

 >Tom wrote:

 >>I supposed this means that anyone's attempts to explain anything
 >>in terms of scientific data are futile in the mind of a post-
 >>modernist because everything is open to interpretation based on
 >>each individual's reality context, therefore there is no
 >>possible absolute standard of concrete, scientific evidence.

 >I think this, in part, depends on what we are trying to define
 >by "reality". Is it the physical reality we all exist in (as
 >defined by science), or our interpretation of that reality? From
 >a psychological perspective, we all view the world, in part,
 >according to our own accepted beliefs and facts which is
 >somewhat like trying to identify colors while looking through a
 >red filter (bad example, but you probably get the point).

Following are my favorite three nails in the coffin of post-
modernism:

The most lucid resolution of the conflict between the relativity
of human standards of "knowledge" and the experience of
"empirical truth" on which science is constructed is Hillary
Putnam's doctrine of "internal realism." In a nutshell a) human
communities are free to construct any standards of "truth" which
they wish to, however b) once a community has constructed a
standard (which includes the proceedures by which claims will be
judged, etc) they will find that some things are true and others
false, i.e "reality" is not arbitrary within a particular
cultural paradigm.

The model of the interpretation of texts on which so much of
post-modernist argument is based is simply inadequate for
paradigms in which statements are checked by proceedures that
involve well-defined activities and observations, e.g. empirical
science. The literary critic can argue for whatever
interpretation he wants, the scientist's words are checked
against specific proceedures of experimentation and observation.

Finally, the appeal to the evidence of variation in "truth"
across cultures is far overblown, and was carried on winds of
"radical relativism" which prevailed in anthropology for a good
part of the second half of the 1900s. Actually the list of
"realities" that people acknowledge in virtually all world
cultures is very long. The radical relativist tactic was to note
the differences in meaning which one can find attached to such
recognitions, e.g. people realize that human beings die but have
different theories about whether any part survives, how, where
it goes, etc. Then having noted such differences to argue that
"all knowledge is culturally relative." This is obviously
invalid.

Ditto observations of "otherworldly" vehicles in the sky and
encounters with "otherworldly" beings. Differences in
explanation, but the observations are found across a large
number of cultures.


Eric






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                      Re: Aztec UFO Symposium - Connors

From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 21:38:01 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 10:31:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Aztec UFO Symposium - Connors


 >From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
 >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 10:48:35 -0800
 >Subject: Re: Aztec UFO Symposium

 >>From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
 >>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 11:57 PM
 >>Subject: Aztec UFO Symposium

<snip>

 >>Better yet, Peter (Sasshaying on the Butte in Robes of Purple)
 >>Gersten is going to be there too! Well, I don't think I need to
 >>draw you a picture that this scene is going to be the Ufology
 >>event of the decade. <G>

 >He was there the year I spoke too, but no Robes of Purple. He
 >did have any eye for the girls though.

You sure? I have a neighbor that keeps lurking around at our
local Victoria's Secret.

 >>I'm looking forward to the evening sky watch event...man, I
 >>wanna see that Mothership of Adamski visit the multitude!
 >>Believe me, I've put in for the flashlight concession.

 >By golly, it has been years - since 1957 that I saw that
 >Adamski-type Mothership over Yucca Valley, CA. I waved when it
 >went by, but got no response. Maybe they didn't see me or were
 >just being rude.

You just didn't do it right, Bill. You're suppose to shoot them
the moon as they pass over to get their attention! <G>


Wendy Connors
So, there ya have it, but whadda ya got?








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                            The Next 1,000 Years

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 21:05:48 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 10:32:40 -0500
Subject: The Next 1,000 Years


The following piece started out as an entry in my weblog.
Although it's unpolished, I'll share it as it has some
relevance to the UFO question.

--Mac

----

The Next 1,000 Years

by Mac Tonnies


So, will the human race survive the next 1,000 years? Stephen
Hawking, for one, doesn't think we will unless we expand into
space. It's sad commentary on our predicament when a week's
worth of precision bombing in Iraq could have financed a manned
Mars exploration program. Will humans make the evolutionary cut?
Almost certainly not. But that doesn't exclude our descendants,
who may or may not be human-like in any recognizable sense.

I sense that we are treading a vast and portentous ontological
gulf; it's crunch time. The next few hundred years will be
absolutely decisive. Either the Earth becomes a planetary mass
grave or it becomes a fondly remembered home...or an abstract
notion. Posthumanity will take on a variety of forms; almost by
definition, it will be multiplex, vastly intelligent, and as
tenacious as any virus or prion.

A thousand years, in geological time, is less than an eyeblink.
A mere century can be viewed as a single defining event. If so,
it's not unreasonable to expect that our flailing attempts at
ascension, burdened as they are with superstition and
bureaucracy, are being watched by others in the space-time
neighborhood. We might be quite amusing to them. Or quite
sickening.

People invariably ask me about my "beliefs" in aliens. The point
I try to make is this: If extraterrestrials exist -- which they
probably do -- then it doesn't logically follow that they're
here (although they very well might be). Secondly, aliens are
not likely to think in terms of 1950s sci-fi films. I doubt
there are too many cosmic altruists out there, like the
blatantly messiahnic "Mr. Carpenter" from "The Day the Earth
Stood Still." On the up-side, I don't think malevolently
xenophobic civilizations are too common, either. Why destroy or
enslave another civilization when posthuman reasoning suggests
that advanced ET intelligences will be able to provide for
themselves without assistance?

I really don't want to be an alarmist, but time is running out.
Our weather patterns are showing ominous new trends; global
warming continues; deforestation -- and its brutal cousin,
desertification -- are hacking away at our biosphere's roots
with the unheeding avarice of out-of-control clockwork. An
ecological 9-11 might get our attention, but it also might
consume too much of it: while we feebly try to restore order, an
uncatalogued asteroid might be racing silently our way. Or the
rain forests will unleash an airborne Ebola in an attempt to
maintain some semblance of homeostasis.

Earth is dying under what William S. Burroughs aptly referred to
as a mudslide of "devalued human stock." Don't think it won't
fight back, even if its weapons seem initially superficial or
quaint compared to humankind's iconic nuclear stockpiles.

I watch our planet steered by soulless multinational
corporations and bigoted governments whose "future" is as
reassuringly near as next month's NASDAQ or voter opinion polls.
Is this how it ends, snuffed out into petrochemical oblivion
before we make the critical move off-planet? Our space shuttles
crash because they're obsolete, fragile museum pieces. But our
smart-bombs are cutting edge: gleaming chrome and laser-light,
avatars of technological cunning.

I am deeply afraid.



=====
 >Mac Tonnies
macbot@yahoo.com

MTVI: http://www.mactonnies.com
Transcelestial Ontology, Posthumanism and Theoretical Ufology

Blog: http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com (updated daily)






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              Re: Kecksburg Petition CFI Press Release - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 01:59:31 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 11:39:20 -0500
Subject: Re: Kecksburg Petition CFI Press Release - Velez


 >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 07:49:35 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Kecksburg Petition CFI Press Release

 >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 00:56:05 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Kecksburg Petition CFI Press Release

 >>>From: Leslie Kean <lkean@ix.netcom.com>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 02:50:20 -0500
 >>>Subject: Kecksburg Petition CFI Press Release - 03-03-03

 >>>Monday, March 3, 2003

 >>>For further information:
 >>>Contact: Ed Rothschild (202) 879-9317
 >>>Leslie Kean (415) 250-9791

 >>>SCI FI Channel and Coalition for Freedom of Information to
 >>>Support Petition for Federal Investigation into Kecksburg
 >>>Incident

 >>>For more background, see www.freedomofinfo.org . Please see
 >>>www.signpetition.com for a copy of the petition and information
 >>>about the petition drive.

 >>Hi Leslie or whoever is listening from CFI,

 >>Is there a reason why _all_ the eggs are being put into one
 >>basket? There are so many great UFO cases to choose from I'm
 >>just curious, why Kecksburg to the exclusion of all the other
 >>cases? Who voted Kecksburg to be the 'best case' for this
 >>purpose?

 >>If Kecksburg turns out to be the recovery of some stray Ruskie
 >>bird, is there going to be 'another' petition over some other
 >>'individual' UFO case? If so, 'who' does the choosing?

 >I believe that Kecksburg was selected because it involves an
 >incident that involves multiple witnesses and military action
 >that can't be denied, and the fact that FOIA requests have been
 >denied for national security reasons. With publicly known, and
 >acknowledged, government involvement in this case, there is an
 >ability to seek specific information (or an explanation as to
 >why that information is being withheld). CFI has indicated that
 >they would like to concentrate on cases where requests have been
 >denied for national security reasons. Unfortunately, I can think
 >of few others that fit into this caregory.

Hi Steve,

You wrote:

 >You are correct in that the current theory held by many is that
 >this was a former Russian satellite that was picked up and
 >quickly carried away. I have spoken with a Legislative Aide for
 >the Congressional District that includes Kecksburg and he
 >indicated that every thread of information he was able to obtain
 >pointed in that direction. But then again, he certainly wasn't
 >"in the loop" either. I would add that the office was quite
 >aware of the public interest in this case, judging from the
 >amount of mail they received.

Sure, maybe this aide was just being fed a line. But there's a
50/50 chance that the office scuttlebutt was based on fact.
That's why I asked. Kecksburg is the kind of case that could go
either way. Why put all the political eggs and the resources of
CFI into an 'iffy' basket?

Here's a f'rinstance...

Why not the Malmstrom Air Force base incident? A UFO is spotted
by base security personnel just outside of the main gate.
Something like 10 nuclear tipped Minuteman missiles were
neutralized in their silos.

National security was compromised by a 'UFO'. (possibly)

The guy who baby-sat the 'button' in the missile silo has
already given testimony as one of the Disclosure Witnesses. Man,
it just doesn't get much better than that in terms of meeting
all the criteria you cited for selection as a good, solid,
multiple-witness, military involved, representative UFO case.

I'm just saying that Kecksburg stands a chance of being
identified as something other than a 'UFO' case. So why choose
it?

I'm kinda surprised that guys like Dick Haines, Jerry Clark,
Dick Hall, Stan Friedman or Jan Aldritch (among other
'reputable' ufologists) weren't consulted or included in the
case selection process. Maybe they did consult with them, I
don't know. I just didn't see the selection of the Kecksburg
case as being the 'strongest' one available.

If it's going to be Kecksburg 'like it or not' then so be it. I
will support the efforts of CFI and hope that Kecksburg turns
out to be a solid 'UFO' case after all. I just wonder how many
times ufologists will be able to engage the Government
Accounting Office in a UFO paper hunt before they decide it's a
waste of _their_ time and resources.

 >CFI provides an opportunity to utilize resources that are
 >familiar with the workings and government and have expertise in
 >the legal aspects of FOIA requests. They are not prepared to
 >take on hundreds of minor requests, but I believe they would
 >prefer to concentrate their talents. They have indicated that
 >they are open to suggestions, and I believe that is trully the
 >case.

Then ask them to consult with some of the people I named
earlier. I know that, I for one, would feel a lot more confident
about the prospects for success of this effort if several of the
people I mentioned could agree on a case that they believe would
be a good candidate.

Kecksburg? I think we can do much better than that.


Regards,

John Velez, speaking strictly for myself







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                        Re: Postmodernism - Auchettl

From: John Auchettl <Praufo@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 02:57:02 EST
Fwd Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 11:43:16 -0500
Subject: Re: Postmodernism - Auchettl


 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 17:58:08 -0600
 >Subject: Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism - Clark

 >>From: Laurel Oplatka <calabash2003@webtv.net>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 11:26:03 -0800 (PST)
 >>Subject: Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism

 >>To those who regard Colin Bennett as some sort of rococo pedant,
 >>I submit that the reading of his truly fine book, "Politics of
 >>the Imagination" will provide an understanding of the depth and
 >>scope of this superb thinker re: Fortean and Post-Modern issues
 >>which of course in and of themselves address the limitations of
 >>the mechanistic approach re:UFO and all "things" paranormal.

 >I, too, recommend the book. It's wonderfully thought-provoking
 >and very, very funny. Watching much of the response to Colin
 >Bennett on this List, I get the clear sense that many are
 >missing his splendid sense of humor, which Fort himself would
 >have appreciated.


Hi Laurel, Jerry and List,


I agree with you, Well said!

Colin Bennett has a gift that opens up the text. I am very
surprise how some US groups have reacted to Colin. If you don't
get it then get someone to read it to you. Go back to the posts,
Colin has placed up, take your time. Read his books. We need
more of this type of thinking.

Jerome Clark, Laurel Oplatka, Brenda Denzler, George P. Hansen
and many others got the point (message image & text)!

But then again you can't teach an old dog new tricks, that's
their way (life). Being left behind, imposed ignorance and
closed minds by any measure is not science just a way of life.
If you don't get it then you probably will never stretch that
fossil. Postmodernism is another way to "read" the world, but
hell if you're happy with your lot the who wants to change you,
got better things to do. Don't close the debate down for the
rest of us who may be interested, go to bed and have a rest.

If you think that science has all the answers, is conflict/pole
free, scientific method solves all and is the best system we
have then "help", your stranded in some strange land without
scientific image, text and literature!

George P. Hansen in his post, has hit the nail on the head!

"To his credit, Dick Hall understands that Bennett's ideas
severely challenge prevailing notions of science. In his attacks
on Bennett, Hall would find many allies within the physical
sciences. However, those allies will not aid him in his study of
UFOs, rather, they will sneer at him in just the same way he
sneers at Bennett." [6]

They "sneer" at our icon Dick Hall, now thats a fact.

The postmodern method does work and it is one of many tools you
can use. The thing that you have missed is the issue, it opens
up the data and new ideas come out. It splits Positive<>Negative
++<>-- poles, and when we get caught up in deadlock teams
opposing each other, USA<>UK - you can keep your team or side
and using this method to spin off the frozen pile of stored
facts the "dead stop" and open up a new front.

Now, if you're interested then:

FOR EXAMPLE:

That's why it work with CORSO text, it splits the Right<>Wrong
and looks at CORSO world structure of the 50s/60s. Jerry Clark
is right on the beam when he noted that - "I find the exchange
regarding Corso just plain disheartening, a sad commentary on
the state of ufology" [1] that's if you want war!

Jerry then tells us that "People who ought to know better,
people I like personally, fling themselves over the rhetorical
cliff" [1] well if you want a go to war over Right<>Wrong or
Good<>Bad that rhetorical cliff is right next to you, your on
the edge.

Jerry then tells us "Jan [Aldrich], Brad Sparks, Karl Pflock,
Stan Friedman, and others -- have produced abundant evidence"
[1] on CORSO, well for one side but they know nothing about the
life the middle part, the grey area. When I asked a very simple
question to get an idea how Dick Hall could be so positive I
asked "Dick, did you (or Jan) know Corso in the: 1960's, 70's,
80's?" [2] Dick Hall went to war with me. The answer, NON,
that's right he "conclude that you are another 'will-to-
believer' who rejects facts, logic, scientific method, in favour
of... what? Subjective preference? You want to believe Corso,
therefore he is telling the truth?" [2], yes Dick zeroed his
weapon on my 25 metre range, hit me with 7.62 rimless NATO, this
icon loves conflict?

I love my facts, tools, instruments, science, and I have teams &
sides, but I can also see the grey area between the poles. Dick
Hall can only use instruments, a thermometer to take a child's
temperature, that's his science truth, I can take that same
measurement just by holding my child, no facts, no scientific
method, you can still do it another way, and it works well. It
all sounds mad, yet these places exist. But I like the
instrument also.

Dick Hall loves facts; they are clean and stack into folders.
Anything outside the Dicks rules of coding, anti-facts peel
should be cut out, incarcerated, eliminated with Snake Blisken
to LA. (Kurt Russell movie 'Escapes from L.A.' 1996).

NO CONFLICT:

It's not about the sides such as Josh Goldstein, Nazis<>Jew -
  Dark<>Light as in Kevin Coogan's book on orthodox Yockeyism.
[4] And you don't have to give up your position. You open up the
image and pitch out above the Nazis<>Jew lock then read the
structure that holds all that in place. Good<>Evil out. There is
no conflict. If you want war, right just go back to the sides
and kill each other, fine. I do understand Josh's feelings, and
I don't like Nazis also, but...?

OPENING UP THE TEXT:

I had this out with Jan Aldrich in 2000 [3]. Jan went into
lockdown mode and war. But as I tried to show him, like the
truth, lies are also facts. They are a part of the system
Truth<>Lie & Fact<>Fiction and so on.

If you think you have the truth on your side then everything
outside your defence is a lie (CORSO), but if you split between
the two, into the grey area new structure, data, ideas or images
pop into space:

PULITZER PRIZE WIN:

I wrote: [3]

"Sorry Jan [Aldrich] - That Vet "Lawrence Levine" was right. You
missed the "hook" Jan [Aldrich].

"It was "Edward L. Daily" of Clarksville, Tenn, who told the lie
or better still "embellished his personal wartime behaviour".

"One of the many requirements to good research is to drop the
"ego" "the I" and 'blind hate' out of the data and keep that
mind open to the message.

"The paradox you need to grasp was that 'Edward L. Daily's' crap
revealed the truth - about an event that 'Lawrence Levine' was
at!

"Edward Daily's embellished personal wartime behaviour saw four
Associated Press staff members win the International Consortium
of Investigative Journalists' top reporting award for stories
uncovering attacks by the U.S. military on civilians during the
Korean War. A series that also earned the Pulitzer Prize." [3]

The Army facts were a bigger lie than the faker's lies. Now
that's postmodern ideas at work. These journalists found another
way out!

It is not a "1970 love in", "hug a tree or bad person" or
"return to post electric" or "hand me your gun" or Don Ledger
"Self grandizement by the pompous" [5] and so on. If you don't
get it then your still at home on one of the ends ++<>--.

The UFO facts have gone dry on us and we need to look for new
ideas and paths, postmodernism is a great tool to use, give it
time.



Best regards to you all,


John Auchettl
PRA - Director


   "Science seeks to prove the invisible by the visible;
    metaphysics seeks to demonstrate the 'reality' of the
    invisible in the visible."
                                    Ann M. Lavalee


[1].
http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2000/jun/m29-021.shtml
[2].
http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2003/jan/m11-017.shtml
[3].
http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2000/dec/m12-013.shtml
[4].
http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2003/mar/m03-020.shtml
[5].
http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2003/mar/m06-017.shtml
[6].
http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2003/mar/m06-001.shtml


Phenomena Research Australia [PRA]
P.O. Box 523, Mulgrave, Victoria, Australia, 3170
Australian & Asia UFO
1961-2003 - 42 YEARS OF RESEARCH SERVICE







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   Mar > Mar 7

              Request for Reinstatement Of Rejected FOIA Appeal

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net>
Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 12:27:12 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 13:19:03 -0500
Subject: Request for Reinstatement Of Rejected FOIA Appeal

To: president@whitehouse.gov

TO: General Counsel
     U. S. Department of the Interior
     Washington, DC 20240

FROM: Larry W. Bryant
       3518 Martha Custis Drive
       Alexandria, VA 22302

DATE: March 7, 2003

DOI FOIA appeals officer William W. Wolf's March 3, 2003,
rejection (quoted below) of my Feb. 10, 2003, FOIA appeal
unfairly penalizes me for having no knowledge of the BLM partial
denial of my Nov. 7, 2002, FOIA request until that censorship
surfaced via action of a third party. That initially
unexplained/unjustified denial thus constitutes improper
processing of my original request, and Mr. Wolf's rejection of
my appeal constitutes aiding and abetting that impropriety. His
action/inaction equates to a defrauded person's being denied
justice despite her initial lack of knowledge of the fraud.

Accordingly, I ask that you take the following immediate steps
to resolve this impasse:

(1) Overrule Mr. Wolf's rejection of my appeal: simply pick up
the phone, call the BLM FOIA manager in New Mexico, and direct
that "initial denial authority" to fulfill my original request
forthwith.

(2) Process this numbered subparagraph as a new, supplementary
FOIA request -- viz., for a copy of the entire contents to date
of the BLM-maintained case file on my original request and
subsequent appeal. Armed with that information, I can proceed
with presenting my case fully to appropriate congressional
bodies: that your department's FOIA-request processing system
has at least one serious, unacceptable flaw that can be
resolved, in part, by congressional intervention.



LARRY W. BRYANT
Director, Washington, D.C., Office of
Citizens Against UFO Secrecy

P.S.: Please note that I'm snail-mailing to you a signed printout of
this e-formatted request.

Copies furnished to:

Mark S. Zaid, Esq. (Washington, D.C.)

Inspector General, U. S. Department of the Interior

Chairman, Subcommittee on Government Information, Management,
and Technology, U. S. House of Representatives

Peter Robbins, Editor-in-Chief, UFOcity.com


TEXT OF MR. WOLF'S MARCH 3, 2003, LETTER TO L.W.B.

"This concerns your February 10, 2003, letter, addressed to the
Bureau of Land Management (BLM), General Counsel, and received
in this Office on February 27, 2003. In your letter, you
indicated your desire to file a Freedom of Information Act
(FOIA) appeal, pertaining to the December 11, 2002, response by
the BLM, New Mexico State Office, to your November 7, 2002, FOIA
request. In your FOIA request, you sought information pertaining
to the Standard Archeological Plan for the excavation of the
Roswell UFO-crash-landing debris field.

"The Department's regulations state that an appeal must be
received by the FOIA Appeals Officer no later than 30 workdays
after the date of the final response or 30 workdays after
receipt of any records that are provided to you (43 CFR, Sec.
2.29(a)).

"Your letter of intent to file an FOIA appeal is dated February
10, 2003, which is more than one month after the date of the
bureau's response letter. The Department is not able to process
your letter as an FOIA appeal, since your FOIA appeal was filed
in excess of the 30-day time limitation.

"In your letter you advised that BLM did not include, in its
release of responsive documents, a copy of the 'proposed dig-
site "map" referred to in (and originally attached to) the
Archeological Testing and Remote Sensing Study Plan for Foster
Ranch Impact Site, as submitted by officials at the University
of New Mexico for BLM review/approval.'

"Also, you advised of 'white blanks' after the designated BLM
lands, that were not explained.

"By copy of this letter, the Department is referring your
February 10, 2003, letter, with attachments, to the BLM FOIA
Officer to be treated as a new FOIA request, and to consider the
issues raised in your intended appeal when issuing its
response."








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              Re: An Appeal to Ufology's Senior Members - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 12:46:02 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 13:21:24 -0500
Subject: Re: An Appeal to Ufology's Senior Members - Velez


Hello All,

This is addressed to Dick Hall, Jerry Clark, Wendy Conners, Stan
Friedman, Jan Aldritch, Brad Sparks, Dick Haines and any other
'reputable' ufologist that I may have failed to mention.

Ladies and gents,

CFI is about to commit rare and valuable resources in an effort
to get the GAO (Government Accounting Office) to scare up and
release any information they may be in possession of regarding
the rather 'iffy' Kecksberg incident from the 60's.

I was wondering if it would be possible for all of you to
commiserate privately, and come up with a _stronger_ case for
CFI to approach the GAO with? It wouldn't involve a tremendous
amount of time or effort or place any unusual demands on your
(and I know that you're all busy people) time. It would be for a
worthwhile cause.

Steve Kaeser has stated that the folks at CFI are 'open to
suggestions' _before_ they go in with the Kecksberg case. It's
not too late for all of you, the most knowledgeable and
reputable people in ufology to make your voices heard. To weigh
in with your sage opinions and expertise and give this effort a
real chance to succeed.

Why waste the truly valuable resources that the good people at
CFI have offered? If this opportunity is lost because of apathy
or the failure of ufology's most experienced and senior members
to take the initiative, to involve themselves and make their
voices heard, then man oh man, what a freakin' waste.

GAO is only going to spend time and resources hunting for any
paper on UFOs but so many times before they themselves put the
brakes on it. Roswell was strike one. If CFI goes back to the
well and comes up 'dry' on the Kecksberg case then it's strike
two. How many 'swings' is the GAO going to give ufologists
before they claim that they are wasting the GAO's time and
resources?

Now is the time to get in touch with each other and with CFI and
see if you all can agree on a case that has better chances for
success than Kecksberg.

Please. Obe Won Kenobe's we need you _now!_

Warmest regards to you all, thank you for your consideration,

John Velez, UFO witness







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             Re: An Appeal to Ufology's Senior Members - Connors

From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 11:47:58 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 15:41:58 -0500
Subject: Re: An Appeal to Ufology's Senior Members - Connors


 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 12:46:02 -0500
 >Subject: Re: An Appeal to Ufology's Senior Members


 >This is addressed to Dick Hall, Jerry Clark, Wendy Conners,
 >Stan Friedman, Jan Aldritch, Brad Sparks, Dick Haines and any
 >other 'reputable' ufologist that I may have failed to mention.

 >CFI is about to commit rare and valuable resources in an effort
 >to get the GAO (Government Accounting Office) to scare up and
 >release any information they may be in possession of regarding
 >the rather 'iffy' Kecksberg incident from the 60's.

 >I was wondering if it would be possible for all of you to
 >commiserate privately, and come up with a _stronger_ case for
 >CFI to approach the GAO with? It wouldn't involve a tremendous
 >amount of time or effort or place any unusual demands on your
 >(and I know that you're all busy people) time. It would be for a
 >worthwhile cause.


John,

I cannot respond for my fellow colleagues, as to if CFI asked
for their opinion in regards to item in play, but I was not
approached for personal comment.

That aside, I feel that the Kecksburg case is strong in many
respects, but the Malstrom AFB incident is, in my opinion, a
wiser case to put into power play. Strictly from the position
that it is a more "internal" case within the military and
therefore would not suffer from outside contamination.


Wendy







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   Mar > Mar 7

                            Triangular Body Marks

From: Philip <Reply Via Moderator>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 13:57:40 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 15:47:13 -0500
Subject: Triangular Body Marks


[Non-Subscriber Post]

I was just doing a Google search on triangular marks. I was
surprised to find posts on UFO UpDates describing the same
phenomena I have noted myself, which prompted me to do the
search in the first place. In the past two years I have received
two strange "wounds". The first, on the outside (opposite the
palm) of my left hand, was a pattern of three small holes or
punches forming an equilateral triangle about 10 mm on a side.
It took a while (several weeks) for the pattern to disappear.

The second happened only about a month ago. I was at the gym in
the morning and noticed bleeding from my left calf behind my
knee. There a triangular plug of flesh was missing. The hole was
about 3 mm on a side, a perfect triangle. Even today there is a
triangular scar at the spot.

I have no memories of anything strange associated with these two
occurances, except that I noticed both wounds in the morning. I
am fascinated that others report similar experiences. I have no
theory about this nor do I necessarily attribute either
happening to unnatural causes; I just can't explain them.

Philip






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               Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 12:14:10 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 15:58:53 -0500
Subject: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S


Hello all:

Does anybody want to pursue this matter? It came in via my website.

If so, the originator is: thumper is_cool <thumper_0007@hotmail.com>
and you can respond directly. I prefer not to act as
intermediary. I can hardly read the message below, and doubt I
could ever catalog it..

The message is in the original. I only chopped up the single
endless line to conform to List Rules.



Best wishes

- Larry Hatch

- - -

from:  "thumper is_cool" <thumper_0007@hotmail.com>

Subject: Watching  World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S In The
Film.By Aircraft Carriers

are you intrested..found them on a film of a strike carries usa
ship launching our fighters and torpedo planes in the south
pacific..it looked at first like a white streak moving across
the screen looping momentarly  so fast the fighters seemed like
they were standing still.. me and my son slowed the film down to
picture frame by picture frame and dang there is the ufo  not
only one  but many others diving and climbing between the
american planes witch can be seen clearly..on one photo slowed
to still shot a like stealth fighter.could be seen manuvering
between around and behing torpedo planed you intrested in the
name of the war documentry...let me know...for real no denying
it at all  its not bullets or weather ballons or birds...and its
all been overlooked for years [name & location removed--ebk]
being a abductee  i tend to watch closer and leard as much about
the phonemina







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   Mar > Mar 7

               Re: George Bush, Reagan & Life In Outer Space -

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 13:13:05 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 13:25:27 -0500
Subject: Re: George Bush, Reagan & Life In Outer Space -


 >Source: The Journal - Newscastle, UK

 >http://icnewcastle.icnetwork.co.uk/ic/thejournal/page.cfm?objectid=126
94748&method=full&siteid=50081

 >George Bush, Reagan and life in outer space

 >Mar 3 2003

 >By Peter Leathley, The Journal

 >George W Bush's budget suggests aliens could exist somewhere in
 >the depths of space.

<snip>

Hi All,

Just a comment...

Greg Sandow posted a brilliant analysis of this new chestnut
that is circulating around about George Bush's comment on UFOs,
in the national budget he submitted. I strongly suggest that
everybody take the time to visit the UpDates archive and give it
a second read.

Also, speaking as an American citizen, after listening to George
Bush's nationally televised press conference last night, I think
that everybody should be much more concerned that the man who
has his finger on the 'button' is not a very bright individual.
Downright dangerous in fact.

Screw what he may or may not have said about UFOs. We need to
pay very close attention to everything else he's saying. If we
don't concentrate, it could cost lives here and abroad.

I read somewhere that it is going to cost 2 billion dollars to
finance this little campaign to change the regime in Iraq. How
about we give the Iraqi people 1 billion dollars to change their
own regime and spend the other 1 billion changing the regime
over here!

Rant over.

John Velez, UFO UpDates Listerion






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   Mar > Mar 8

                         Argentina: UFO Over Rufino

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 16:08:31 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 08:22:39 -0500
Subject: Argentina: UFO Over Rufino


SOURCE: IFOR (Investigadores del Fen=F3meno Ovni de Rufino)
DATE: March 7, 2003

UFO OVER RUFINO, ARGENTINA

On March 6, 2003 at 19:35 hours local time, several indiviudals
who were at the motorcycle racetrack of the Ben Hur Sports Club,
located in southeastern Rufino, Santa Fe Province, noticed a
strange white light moving over the city from the south and
heading northward. Witnesses indicated that said light was lower
than the flight altitude at which aircraft normally fly over the
city. It was much brighter than a star and traveled horizontally
with regard to the ground, and at high speed.

At a given moment during its trajectory, it vanished; it made no
sound whatsoever and the posibility that it could have been an
artificial satellite was dismissed given its low altitude and
high velocity.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Translation (C) 2003 Institute of Hispanic Ufology (IHU)
Special thanks to Norberto Mollo and Juan Jos=E9 Mecchi (IFOR)







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             Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S

From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 21:23:19 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 08:38:29 -0500
Subject: Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S


 >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 12:14:10 -0800
 >Subject: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S

 >Hello all:

 >Does anybody want to pursue this matter? It came in via my
 >website.

We had exactly the same entered yesterday on a sighting report
form for UFO Roundup.

The same information was filled in for Location, Date, Approach
Direction, Departure Direction, Witness Direction, Description,
Color/Shape, Height & Speed!

Slight overkill I think!

Wonder who else it has been sent to?


John Hayes

webmaster@ufoinfo.com

UFOINFO:- http://www.ufoinfo.com

Official Archives for UFO Roundup, AUFORN Australian
UFO Reports and Experiences, UFO + PSI Magazine
plus archives of Filer's Files, Oz Files, UFO News UK
and UFO Sightings Italia.







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              Re: An Appeal to Ufology's Senior Members - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 21:41:29 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 08:42:23 -0500
Subject: Re: An Appeal to Ufology's Senior Members - Hall


 >From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
 >Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 11:47:58 -0700
 >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: An Appeal to Ufology's Senior Members

 >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 12:46:02 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: An Appeal to Ufology's Senior Members

 >>This is addressed to Dick Hall, Jerry Clark, Wendy Conners,
 >>Stan Friedman, Jan Aldritch, Brad Sparks, Dick Haines and any
 >>other 'reputable' ufologist that I may have failed to mention.

 >>CFI is about to commit rare and valuable resources in an effort
 >>to get the GAO (Government Accounting Office) to scare up and
 >>release any information they may be in possession of regarding
 >>the rather 'iffy' Kecksberg incident from the 60's.

 >>I was wondering if it would be possible for all of you to
 >>commiserate privately, and come up with a _stronger_ case for
 >>CFI to approach the GAO with? It wouldn't involve a tremendous
 >>amount of time or effort or place any unusual demands on your
 >>(and I know that you're all busy people) time. It would be for a
 >>worthwhile cause.

 >I cannot respond for my fellow colleagues, as to if CFI asked
 >for their opinion in regards to item in play, but I was not
 >approached for personal comment.

 >That aside, I feel that the Kecksburg case is strong in many
 >respects, but the Malstrom AFB incident is, in my opinion, a
 >wiser case to put into power play. Strictly from the position
 >that it is a more "internal" case within the military and
 >therefore would not suffer from outside contamination.


John,

As an old fogy who "attacks" (meaning you disagree with them)
proponents of post-modernist meaningless doubletalk, I don't
know what CFI stands for. Are you talking about the Sci-Fi
Channel? If, so I was unable to attend their planning meeting in
Washington. Had I done so, I would have suggested they take a
look at my suggestion for a Citizen's Commission on UFOs posted
here a while back. It would provide ample dramatic cases and
lots of exploitable and newsworthy content for TV. The trouble
is, they seem to be looking for smoking gun, hardware cases
which are difficult to come by.

I agree with Wendy that the Malmstrom AFB and the series of
Northern Tier ICBM missile base sightings would be ideal, since
they certainly had to have left a paper trail. They included
multiple eyewitnesses, radar, E-M effects on the missiles, etc.
Lots of credible witnesses. However, GAO works for Congress so
CFI(?) would need to have a Congressional sponsor in order to
initiate a GAO inquiry.


Dick Hall







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                        Re: Postmodernism - Dabrowski

From: Andrew Dabrowski <dabrowsa@indiana.edu>
Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 16:45:21 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 08:44:56 -0500
Subject: Re: Postmodernism - Dabrowski


 >From: John Auchettl <Praufo@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 02:57:02 EST
 >Subject: Re: Postmodernism

 >The postmodern method does work and it is one of many tools you
 >can use. The thing that you have missed is the issue, it opens
 >up the data and new ideas come out. It splits Positive<>Negative
 >++<>-- poles, and when we get caught up in deadlock teams
 >opposing each other, USA<>UK - you can keep your team or side
 >and using this method to spin off the frozen pile of stored
 >facts the "dead stop" and open up a new front.

I think pomo is often just another method of hiding one's head
in the sand. There's a lot of uncertainty in UFO research: are
these recollections accurate, is that witness a hoaxer or liar,
how far away is the figure in that photo? These can be extremely
difficult questions to answer, often being impossible to arrive
at a consensus on. True believers and debunkers tend to
arbitrarily resolve uncertainties in a way favorable to their
own positions.

Pomo takes a slightly more sophisticated approach: if a
consensus can't be reached, then declare the question inherently
unanswerable. Have we been arguing about UFOs for 50 years? Then
there must be no objective truth about UFOs at all.

That is much to hasty a conclusion. If we're still arguing about
UFOs after another 1000 years, then OK. But 50 years is not a
long time in human history.

What irks me about pomo is that it's often simply another way of
brushing uncertainty under the rug: if we're unsure about
something then it must be inherently unresolvable, case closed.
Pomo reduces every interesting question to triviality.

 >Jerry then tells us "Jan [Aldrich], Brad Sparks, Karl Pflock,
 >Stan Friedman, and others -- have produced abundant evidence"
 >[1] on CORSO, well for one side but they know nothing about the
 >life the middle part, the grey area. When I asked a very simple
 >question to get an idea how Dick Hall could be so positive I
 >asked "Dick, did you (or Jan) know Corso in the: 1960's, 70's,
 >80's?" [2] Dick Hall went to war with me. The answer, NON,
 >that's right he "conclude that you are another 'will-to-
 >believer' who rejects facts, logic, scientific method, in favour
 >of... what? Subjective preference? You want to believe Corso,
 >therefore he is telling the truth?" [2], yes Dick zeroed his
 >weapon on my 25 metre range, hit me with 7.62 rimless NATO, this
 >icon loves conflict?

 >I love my facts, tools, instruments, science, and I have teams &
 >sides, but I can also see the grey area between the poles. Dick
 >Hall can only use instruments, a thermometer to take a child's
 >temperature, that's his science truth, I can take that same
 >measurement just by holding my child, no facts, no scientific
 >method, you can still do it another way, and it works well. It
 >all sounds mad, yet these places exist. But I like the
 >instrument also.

 >Dick Hall loves facts; they are clean and stack into folders.
 >Anything outside the Dicks rules of coding, anti-facts peel
 >should be cut out, incarcerated, eliminated with Snake Blisken
 >to LA. (Kurt Russell movie 'Escapes from L.A.' 1996).

The trouble with PoMo is that whenever disagreement arises they
want to split the difference - both sides are always equally
right. Pomo never seems to want to get its fingers dirty
investigating conflicting claims - which are more credible,
which better supported by other evidence, etc.

I see above that you are content to note that you disagree with
others about Corso. Is that where you think the discussion
should be left, or is it worth trying to reach a consensus about
Corso?

Pomo is fine for exploring values, but useless for pursuing
science. Good/bad is endlessly debatable, hopelessly
unresolvable; but the Pythagorean theorem and conservation of
momentum are true everywhere on earth. Why does pomo insist on
sticking its icky fingers everywhere?


--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew Dabrowski       |         Lueckenlos ist die Welt, doch
SE 117      5-5470     |  zusammengehalten ... von den
Verschwundenen.
dabrowsa@indiana.edu   |  Sie sind ueberall.
-Enzensberger





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   Mar > Mar 8

                             Post-Armageddonism

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 22:51:53 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 08:49:06 -0500
Subject: Post-Armageddonism


This is to announce the formation of a new school of philosophy,
Post-Armageddonism (P-A), which is about to replace the trendy
Irrational Subjectivism du jour, Post-Modernism (P-M, not to be
confused with Post-Menopausalism). Once the United States
"liberates" the Iraqui people by bombing the country back into
the Stone Age and destroying what little civilization they have
left, against the will of the world community, P-A will seek to
become the reigning paradigm.

Advocates of P-A will fight a rear-guard action against a
growing chorus of anti-intellectualism and anti-science led by
the P-M gurus whose rejection of science, logic, and empiricism
has paved the way for their exposure as completely irrelevant,
pompous idiots. To them, the War will be only an amusing
exercise in literary analysis, not really real, since there is
no objective reality according to their creed.

To defend against their pending irrelevance, they will blame the
[unreal] war on science and technology and on elderly, out-of-
it, bitter ufologists, who according to them are too ignorant to
see that they [P-Ms] have found a superior route to
understanding, or their moral equivalent of "truth," which they
seem totally incapable of defining or explaining.

P-A adherents will continue to argue that factual, scientific,
objective evidence indicates the reality of UFOs as some
"phenomenon of nature" that has not been adequately investigated
and certainly not explained. That is, if irrationalism such as
that espoused by P-M adherents does not destroy the environment,
lead to a total breakdown in international relations, and result
ultimately in the Biblical Armageddon (a literary reference that
should be dear to the hearts of P-Ms).

  - Dick







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                 Re: An Appeal to Ufology's Senior Members -

From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 01:58:47 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 08:51:33 -0500
Subject: Re: An Appeal to Ufology's Senior Members -


 >From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
 >Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 11:47:58 -0700
 >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: An Appeal to Ufology's Senior Members

 >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 12:46:02 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: An Appeal to Ufology's Senior Members

<snip>

 >I cannot respond for my fellow colleagues, as to if CFI asked
 >for their opinion in regards to item in play, but I was not
 >approached for personal comment.

 >That aside, I feel that the Kecksburg case is strong in many
 >respects, but the Malstrom AFB incident is, in my opinion, a
 >wiser case to put into power play. Strictly from the position
 >that it is a more "internal" case within the military and
 >therefore would not suffer from outside contamination.


Hi Wendy,

I agree with you. Now I will say something I've said before here
but bear with me as I haven't done so for a while. The event
that got me to decide to get actually involved in researching
this UFO mystery was in 1975 when I was in Washington, D.C.
restoring aircraft. I opened the morning's Washington, D.C.Right
on the front was the story that UFOs were seen at five USAF ICBM
bases in the northern tier.

That popped my eyeballs and got me into wanting to do more than
read UFO books. My only previous contact with UFO people was
many years before when my dad wanted to go to Giant Rock (he was
a Psychiatrist) and see how contactees tick. We hopped in the
car and headed south to the contactee party. I don't want to
offend anyone but it sure was a multi-ringed  and multi-
  channelled circus with clowns in the center ring. My Dad and I
had great laughs.

Back to reality. It was a shock to learn of the ICBM base UFO
sightings but it wasn't until later when I learned of the claim
that they infected underground missile systems. We all remember
Fawcett and Greenwood's book "Clear Intent" (since reprinted
under a new name). And then there was the Malstrom AFB incident.

To me it is still one of my top priorities to see the actual
USAF files on all these incidents. I want to see their
interviews with the personnel involved, the investigations, and
the conclusions.


Josh









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                Speaking Of Congressional (Non-)Intervention

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net>
Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 20:04:52 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 08:54:39 -0500
Subject: Speaking Of Congressional (Non-)Intervention


And Speaking of Congressional (NON-)Intervention.....

... we have this plaintive reminder sent to me by a Ufologist
out West, who laments the mostly non-responsiveness from his own
senator, dating back to 1992. Here's an excerpt from this
citizen's perennial demand for accountability:

"On June 18 you [Senator] wrote that you were forwarding my
letter (below) to the Department of Defense for a reply. To
date, there has been no reply from them, not even a non-
responsive form letter. Did they write you?

"Also, you (or your staff) totally ignored the key paragraph, to
which I have now added '**' at the start. Please let me know
your thoughts on that particular matter, of Congressional
hearings.

"Thank you for your consideration.

"(Sent March 27, May 15, June 25, 2001):

"I had tried writing you about this before, but the replies
evaded the issue, and I got the distinct impression that you
never read my letters personally. Particularly after I read the
10/23/97 Journal Sentinel article in which you had trouble
grasping a high school student's question about the subject,
when my letters would have informed you about it. So here is an
updated version of my previous correspondence:

"As your constituent, I am writing to request a clarification of
the U.S. Government's current position concerning the events
that occurred in and around the areas of Roswell and Corona, New
Mexico, in July of 1947. The USG's handling of the situation
also has serious implications with regard to violation of civil
rights. [Ellipsis ...]

"** I urge you to press for open hearings into this event, so
that at long last the facts may be made public. Despite the
Freedom of Information Act and a GAO investigation, the relevant
departments of the U.S. government are not forthcoming in
providing information. Many potential informants are still
intimidated by threats from officials who would keep the crash
under wraps. Congress, with its powers to subpoena and to grant
immunity, is in a position to get to the bottom of it. Please do
so soon, before even more participants in the retrieval die. For
example, since I first wrote you on the matter in 1992, Gen.
DuBose has died. (The USAF's announcement that military
personnel could speak about the event is phony (though it may
fool some people), inasmuch as the USAF didn't even exist then.
The Army has yet to release its members from secrecy.)

"0pen hearings into the crash would put to rest claims of a
coverup (this would be especially true even if there really was
no coverup). It is the lack of hearings (and of any reasonable
government response to inquiries about the crash) that plays
right into the hands of the 'coverup conspiracists.'

"Even apart from the crash, another issue would be worth a
Senate hearing in itself. This is the violation of civil rights
of participants in the retrieval, in an attempt to enforce the
coverup. (Besides the people directly involved, these
participants include casual bystanders such as Frankie Rowe, who
happened to come across some bit of information or artifact.)
Not only did they feel intimidated and threatened for a good
many years, but even when individuals did venture to report what
they knew, society's ridicule of UFOs (government-inspired?)
assured that they would not be taken seriously.

"If you would like to speak with people involved with the
Roswell UFO retrieval, or with researchers into the subject,
please let me know, and I'll put you in touch with some.

"Thank you very much for your reply."







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   Mar > Mar 8

                  CI: Will We Survive The Next 1,000 Years?

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 22:30:31 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 09:00:27 -0500
Subject: CI: Will We Survive The Next 1,000 Years?


Cydonian Imperative
3-8-03

Will We Survive the Next 1,000 Years?
by Mac Tonnies

http://www.mactonnies.com/cydonia.html (page 37)

[Note: The original version of the following editorial began as
an entry in my weblog, Posthuman Blues. The rough "blog" version
also appears on the Center for Psychology and Social Change
website. -M.T.]

Will the human race survive the next 1,000 years? Theoretical
physicist Stephen Hawking, for one, doesn't think we will unless
we expand into space. It's sad commentary on our predicament
when a week's worth of precision bombing in Iraq could have
financed a manned Mars exploration program. Will humans make the
evolutionary cut? Almost certainly not. But that doesn't exclude
our descendants, who may not be human in any recognizable sense.

We are treading a vast and portentous ontological gulf: it's
crunch time, and the next few hundred years will be absolutely
decisive in determining the direction taken by (presumably)
intelligent life on this planet. Either the Earth will become a
planetary mass grave or it will become a fondly remembered home,
a quasi-utopian sanctuary and beloved womb. Our posthuman
descendants will take on a variety of forms; almost by
definition, they will be multiplex, vastly intelligent, and as
tenacious as any virus.

A thousand years, in geological time, is less than an eyeblink.
In this context, a mere century can be viewed as a single
defining event. If so, it's not unreasonable to expect that our
flailing attempts at ascension, burdened as they are with
superstition and bureaucracy, are being watched by others in the
space-time neighborhood. We might be quite amusing to them. Or
quite sickening.

Upon learning of my interests, people invariably ask me about my
"beliefs" in aliens and the Cydonia region on Mars. The point I
try to make is this: If extraterrestrials exist - which I think
they probably do - then it doesn't logically follow that they're
here (although they very well might be). Secondly, aliens are
not likely to think in terms of 1950s sci-fi films. I doubt
there are too many cosmic altruists out there, like the
blatantly messiahnic "Mr. Carpenter" from "The Day the Earth
Stood Still."

On the up-side, I don't think actively malevolent civilizations
are too common, either. Why destroy or enslave another
civilization when reason suggests that advanced ET intelligences
will be able to provide for themselves?

Our time as an endlessly complacent species is running out. In a
very true sense, it has always been running out, but our
technological society is just waking to the fact...and perhaps
wishing it was all a bad dream. Our weather patterns are showing
ominous new trends; global warming continues; deforestation and
desertification hack away at our biosphere's roots with the
unheeding avarice of out-of-control clockwork. Can we rouse
ourselves in time to make a difference? Or is Earth to become a
clone of Mars, arid and wind-scoured, any remains of
civilization consumed by dust?

An ecological 9-11 might get our attention, but it also might
consume too much of it: while we feebly try to restore order, an
uncatalogued asteroid might be racing silently our way. Or the
rain forests will unleash an airborne Ebola in an attempt to
maintain some semblance of homeostasis. Evidence strongly
suggests that Mars died a convulsive and sudden death via meteor
bombardment. If this is true, Mars exploration may prove
essential if we're to protect our own planet from a similar
fate.

Earth is gradually but inexorably dying under what William S.
Burroughs aptly referred to as a mudslide of "devalued human
stock." Don't think our planet won't fight back, even if its
weapons seem initially quaint compared to humankind's iconic
nuclear stockpiles.

As I write, our planet is steered primarily by soulless
multinational corporations and bigoted governments whose
"future" is as reassuringly near as next month's NASDAQ or voter
opinion polls. Is this how it ends, snuffed out into
petrochemical oblivion before we make the critical move off-
planet? Our space shuttles crash because they're obsolete,
fragile museum pieces. But our smart-bombs are cutting edge:
gleaming chrome and laser-light, avatars of technological
cunning.

But if we have every reason to be deeply afraid, we also have
room to be deeply hopeful. We possess the technology to stage a
crewed mission to Mars. It is within our means to colonize the
Moon and extend our reach to the outer planets, probing the
enigmatic moons of Jupiter for life and looking for evidence of
extraterrestrial visitation. If we can establish beachheads in
space, we will be helping to ensure that the human legacy is not
lost in some unguessable orgy of destruction.

If we - almost certainly not the familiar carbon-based "we" but
a greatly empowered posthuman "we" - still exist in 1,000 years'
time, we will have acheived a monumental victory over entropy
and our own penchant for violence. Destroying a posthuman
civilization won't be easy. But destroying a merely human
civilization is almost absurdly simple in a cosmic context.

Survival implies drastic change. Parting ways with the familiar
can be difficult but is nonetheless imperative. We can embrace
the future by creating it, or we can retread the past by
succumbing to xenophobia and the pathological allure of war and
destructive energy sources. Our collective predicament
transcends national allegiance and geopolitical clashes. The
future is not some static entity waiting for us to catch up; it
is a dynamic realm that demands creativity, intellect,
foresight, and drive.

We know that planetary extinction is a real possibility. What
will we choose to do about it?

-end-







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              Re: An Appeal to Ufology's Senior Members - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 02:29:34 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 09:05:43 -0500
Subject: Re: An Appeal to Ufology's Senior Members - Velez


 >From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
 >Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 11:47:58 -0700
 >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: An Appeal to Ufology's Senior Members

 >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 12:46:02 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: An Appeal to Ufology's Senior Members

 >>This is addressed to Dick Hall, Jerry Clark, Wendy Conners,
 >>Stan Friedman, Jan Aldritch, Brad Sparks, Dick Haines and any
 >>other 'reputable' ufologist that I may have failed to mention.

 >>CFI is about to commit rare and valuable resources in an effort
 >>to get the GAO (Government Accounting Office) to scare up and
 >>release any information they may be in possession of regarding
 >>the rather 'iffy' Kecksberg incident from the 60's.

 >>I was wondering if it would be possible for all of you to
 >>commiserate privately, and come up with a _stronger_ case for
 >>CFI to approach the GAO with? It wouldn't involve a tremendous
 >>amount of time or effort or place any unusual demands on your
 >>(and I know that you're all busy people) time. It would be for a
 >>worthwhile cause.

Hi Wendy,

You wrote:

 >I cannot respond for my fellow colleagues, as to if CFI asked
 >for their opinion in regards to item in play, but I was not
 >approached for personal comment.

I figured as much.

Experienced and knowledgeable people like yourself need to have
_direct_ input into something as important to all of us as this
is. Both Dick Hall and Steve Kaeser are right there in the
Maryland/DC area. Maybe something could be arranged or
coordinated through them so that yourself and others can be put
in touch with the shakers and movers at CFI.

It really shouldn't be too big a deal to include several
reputable ufologists in the proceedings. If several of you can
take the time to put your heads together and agree on a 'best
case' to use, the chances for success (may) increase
dramatically. CFI seems to be open to it. Contact Leslie Kean
  at:

lkean@ix.netcom.com

to see if something can be co-ordinated/arranged to include as
many of you as possible in the decision making process.

I'm hoping that Jerry Clark, Stan Friedman, Jan Aldrich and
some of the others I mentioned in my earlier post will respond
and become involved in helping to steer the folks at CFI in
the right direction. (In terms of 'best case' selection.)

 >That aside, I feel that the Kecksburg case is strong in many
 >respects, but the Malstrom AFB incident is, in my opinion, a
 >wiser case to put into power play. Strictly from the position
 >that it is a more "internal" case within the military and
 >therefore would not suffer from outside contamination.

Yes, it is a good case. But I was just throwing it out as an
example of the many other good UFO cases that lost out to
Kecksberg. Cases which were possibly not even considered during
the selection process. That's where you guys could come in like
the cavalry in white hats and maybe suggest some stronger cases
for consideration.

Steve Kaeser says that the people at CFI are 'open to
suggestions.' It's a case of using or losing this opportunity
for ufologists to have some input _before_ CFI goes to the GAO
with a formal request.

Please, talk to Dick Hall and Jerry Clark and see if you guys
can't 'organize' yourselves to do a little brain-storming and
come up with a UFO case that stands a better chance of
succeeding than Kecksberg does. The more of you that participate
in the selection process the better.

As great as the people at CFI may be for taking up this cross,
they are 'newbies' and 'outsiders'. A lot of us will feel a
whole lot better, more confident about this proposed effort
knowing that _you_ and other established, reputable ufologists
with proven track records are _directly_ involved.

It's the way it should have been set up from the start. Better
late than never, however. Let's see if it's not too late to
remedy that situation.

If there is _anything_ I can do to help, please let me know.
I'll rattle a few cages for you if needed. Whatever it takes.
This is way too valuable an opportunity to waste.


Regards, and 'here's hoping'

John Velez






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   Mar > Mar 8

                         Re: Postmodernism - Denzler

From: Brenda Denzler <bdenzler1@email.msn.com>
Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 08:00:24 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 09:29:46 -0500
Subject: Re: Postmodernism - Denzler


 >From: Eric Jacobson <ejacobson74@attbi.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 22:27:39 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Postmodernism

 >Following are my favorite three nails in the coffin of post-
 >modernism:

<snip>

 >... the scientist's words are checked
 >against specific proceedures of experimentation and observation.

In this regard, the following readings might be of interest to
folks on this list:

Bruno Latour and Steve Woolgar, *Laboratory Life*
Karen Knorr Cetina, *The Manufacture of Knowledge* (about science
    laboratories)
Stephen Toulmin, *Cosmopolis* -- which one sociologist reviewer
    called "simply the best discussion on modernity and post-
    modernity available today"

I realize that these are books rather than articles and will
take longer to read and digest, but for those willing - and
brave enough! - to take the time, they are well worth the
effort.


Brenda Denzler






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                        Italian UFO Newsflash No. 386

From: Edoardo Russo <edoardo.russo@tiscali.it>
Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 12:18:09 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 09:32:40 -0500
Subject: Italian UFO Newsflash No. 386


ITALIAN UFO NEWSFLASH

ISSUE NO. 386 -  21 FEBRUARY 2003

by the Italian Center for UFO Studies
(Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici, CISU)

Contents:


THE DEATH OF MARCELLO COPPETTI

Dead in Florence at age 76 is the journalist Marcello Coppetti,
a long-time editor and later editor-in-chief of ANSA Italian
national news agency, not to mention the author of a few books
about political personalities, secret agents, freemasonry and
Italian mysteries.

Coppetti began collaborating in 1978 with the monthly "Il
Giornale dei Misteri" ("Journal of Mysteries"), in which he
supported, in a long series of articles, the theory that UFOs
were, in fact, secret weapons.

These were then collected in his book "UFO: arma segreta" ("UFO:
Secret Weapon"), published in 1979 by Mediterranee Publications.

After subscribing to the Sezione Ufologica Fiorentina (SUF),
Coppetti also signed (together with Boncompagni, Conti, Lamperi
and Sani)  the second volume in the collection "UFO in Italia"
("UFOs In Italy") in 1980; little by little, he hen began
distancing himself from the UFO matter.

[Communication by Renzo Cabassi; La nazione and Il resto del
carlino, 15 February; UFO-Italia, 15 February; collaboration by
Paolo Fiorino and Gildo Persone']


- - -

This is the English translation of UFOTEL, a free phone/Internet
information service on UFOs edited weekly by  Edoardo Russo for
the Italian Center for UFO Studies (Centro Italiano Studi
Ufologici), available in Italian by calling +39-011-545294, or
by e-mail subscription, or on CISU website at
http://www.arpnet.it/ufo/ultime.htm

UFOTEL is a supplement to "UFO - Rivista di informazione
ufologica", published by the Italian Center for UFO Studies,
registered at Tribunale di Torino,  No. 3670, on 19 June 1986.
Director: Giovanni Settimo. Publisher: Cooperativa UPIAR, Corso
Vittorio Emanuele 108, 10121 Turin, Italy

Translated from Italian to English by:
Gary J. Presto, Freelance Italian>English Translator & Proofreader
44 Bickford Ave., Apt. 2
Revere, MA 02151
USA

Tel.: ++1.781.485.1683
FAX: ++1.781.485.1684
E-mail: gpresto@attbi.com
Webpage: http://www.proz.com/translator/723



- - -

(c) 2003 by: CISU,
Corso Vittorio Emanuele 108,  10121 Torino, Italia

This newsletter (as a whole or in part) may be freely
copied, photocopied, reproduced, stored, distributed
and retrieved, at the only condition that Centro Italiano
Studi Ufologici is reported as the source.

You may get it directly via e-mail by subscribing
(just send a blank message to:
cisuflash-subscribe@yahoogroups.com)

The CISU is a no-profit association whose aims are:
- to promote the scientific study of UFO phenomena in Italy;
- to help circulate information about UFO phenomena and studies;
- to coordinate national activities of data collecting and studying.

You may reach Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici:
- by mail: CISU, Corso Vittorio Emanuele 108, 10121 Torino, Italia
- by phone: +39 (011) 30.78.63 (24 hours UFO Hotline)
- by fax: +39 (011) 54.50.33
- by Internet e-mail: cisu@ufo.it
- at the World Wide Web URL: http://www.cisu.org






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   Mar > Mar 8

                         Re: Postmodernism - Denzler

From: Brenda Denzler <bdenzler1@email.msn.com>
Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 09:10:41 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 09:34:38 -0500
Subject: Re: Postmodernism - Denzler


 >From: Andrew Dabrowski <dabrowsa@indiana.edu>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 16:45:21 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Postmodernism

<snip>

 >What irks me about pomo is that it's often simply another way of
 >brushing uncertainty under the rug:

Au contraire. What "pomo" is all about is bringing uncertainty
out from under the rug where empiricism wants to banish it (if
it can't defeat it, first).

Not only is this galling to empiricism -- to have these
uncertainties flaunted as if they might *mean* something --,
everything is made worse by the fact that pomo then turns around
and says, "Not only these swept-under things exist, but the
uncertainties you say you HAVE defeated are not really all that
defeated, after all." Now *that* assertion does not just gall
empiricism, but inflames it.

Pomo is, in a sense, a celebration of the uncertainties. Some-
times a grudging but good-humored celebration; other times a
downright raucous veritable Mardi Gras of a celebration. IMHO,
it is in the latter situation that post-modernspeak lives -- in
that kind of inebriated, scarcely-intelligible revelry. It is in
that spirit that Sokal did his brilliant sting. But the
essential insights of pomo, I certainly hope, can be conveyed
and understood without inebriation. I never was much of a party
girl, myself.


Brenda Denzler
http://www.abductionproject.com

"War does not determine who is right;
it only determines who is left."






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             Re: Speaking Of Congressional (Non-)Intervention -

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 09:37:44 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 11:05:22 -0500
Subject: Re: Speaking Of Congressional (Non-)Intervention -


 >From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 20:04:52 -0500
 >Subject: And Speaking of Congressional (Non-)Intervention

 >And Speaking of Congressional (NON-)Intervention.....

 >... we have this plaintive reminder sent to me by a Ufologist
 >out West, who laments the mostly non-responsiveness from his own
 >senator, dating back to 1992. Here's an excerpt from this
 >citizen's perennial demand for accountability:

 >"On June 18 you [Senator] wrote that you were forwarding my
 >letter (below) to the Department of Defense for a reply. To
 >date, there has been no reply from them, not even a non-
 >responsive form letter. Did they write you?

 >"Also, you (or your staff) totally ignored the key paragraph, to
 >which I have now added '**' at the start. Please let me know
 >your thoughts on that particular matter, of Congressional
 >hearings.

 >"Thank you for your consideration.

<snip>

Larry-

Without new information to open such a "hearing", I'm somewhat
amazed that anyone would expect their elected representative to
focus on issues other than the pending conflict in the Middle-
  East, the state of the economy, and foreign policy issues.
These would seem to be of much greater importance to a vast
majority of average constituents.

If we can get the entire U.S. population to write in on this
issue, then you could probably re-focus the efforts of Congress
to deal with the Roswell event. However, I find that to be
unlikely.

I'm not saying that one shouldn't write to their elected
representatives, but I wouldn't expect to sway their opinion
unless it becomes a major issue for their constituency. I've had
good success at getting my elected representatives to help in
failed FOIA requests, but I was asking for specific information
that I knew existed and not making generic "shot in the dark"
requests.


Steve






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                    Re: Argentina: UFO Over Rufino - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 16:51:03 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 12:02:38 -0500
Subject: Re: Argentina: UFO Over Rufino - Hall


 >From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 16:08:31 -0500
 >Subject: Argentina: UFO Over Rufino

 >SOURCE: IFOR (Investigadores del Fen=F3meno Ovni de Rufino)
 >DATE: March 7, 2003

 >UFO OVER RUFINO, ARGENTINA

 >On March 6, 2003 at 19:35 hours local time, several indiviudals
 >who were at the motorcycle racetrack of the Ben Hur Sports Club,
 >located in southeastern Rufino, Santa Fe Province, noticed a
 >strange white light moving over the city from the south and
 >heading northward. Witnesses indicated that said light was lower
 >than the flight altitude at which aircraft normally fly over the
 >city. It was much brighter than a star and traveled horizontally
 >with regard to the ground, and at high speed.

 >At a given moment during its trajectory, it vanished; it made no
 >sound whatsoever and the posibility that it could have been an
 >artificial satellite was dismissed given its low altitude and
 >high velocity.

Scott,

Why is this not a meteor? Since the size of the object is
unknown, there is no way to know the altitude - unless it flew
beneath a cloud cover or in front of some landmark. Nothing to
that effect is stated in the story.


  - Dick







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                Fw: From Linda Moulton Howe on March 7, 2003

From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 12:58:41 -0300
Fwd Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 17:25:06 -0500
Subject: Fw: From Linda Moulton Howe on March 7, 2003


----------------------------

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: From Linda Moulton Howe on March 7, 2003
Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 11:39:52 -0500
From: Linda Moulton Howe <earthfiles@earthfiles.com>
To: Dixie Ricks <frodoricks@centurytel.net>, clefevre@oz.net,
whitley@strieber.com, darkeditor@aol.com, JOERYA@SAFECO.com

CC: admin@hollowfx.com, gnoory2000@yahoo.com,
Puckett.William@epa.gov, w_puckett@hotmail.com


March 7, 2003

Since the following e-mail was forwarded to me this morning by
correspondent, Lisa/Dixie Ricks, about her correspondence with
Charlette LeFevre in which Charlette says, "Urandir is currently
being investigated by Federal Authorities in his "Project
Portal" UFO sect...", I think it is important to consider at
least one legal fact from Brazil's federal court in Sao Paulo.

Please see the attached "Poder Judiciario Justica Federal
document" (Judicial Power of Federal Justice, a federal court of
Brazil) that confirmed on April 2, 2001, that Urandir Fernandes
De Oliveira is innocent of any and all charges in the nation of
Brazil. Businessman Felipe Branco said the lawyer who
represented Urandir in the "land fraud" lawsuit against Urandir
in March 2001 in which Urandir was found innocent wanted a
federal court declaration of Urandir's innocence. Branco said
this action was taken because A. J. Gevaerd was the one
responsible for the land fraud lawsuit and continuing alleged
harassment after Urandir was found innocent.

Here is the Portuguese to English translation of the sentences
on the Poder Judiciario:

"Judicial Power
Federal Justice (federal court in Sao Paulo)
Certificate of Distribution
of Actions and Executions
Civil, Criminal and Fiscal
Case File: 8407-1
A certificate concerning the person listed below since April 25, 1967:

Urandir Fernandes de Oliveira
CPF: 046.299.678-59  (federal I. D. number in Brazil tied to citizenship)

NADA CONSTA    ("Of no merit," or "Not Guilty" or "The charges
against this person have no merit."

Sao Paulo, 2 April 2001 (time)

Wanderley De Oliveira Filho (Filho means "the son of" like we
would put II on a son's name)

Central Registry
(address)
Federal Justice in Region 1 of Sao Paulo, Brazil

A fee of 42 cents was paid to copy this document of case file 8407-1.
This certificate is from the federal judiciary in the State of Sao Paulo.


ATTACHMENT:  Poder Judiciario Justica Federal Document April 2, 2001

--
Linda Moulton Howe
Reporter and Editor
Earthfiles.com,
and News Contributor,
Premiere Radio Networks
and Dreamland Online

P. O. Box 300
Jamison, PA 18929-0300

Fax: 215-491-9842






on 3/7/03 2:37 AM, Dixie Ricks at frodoricks@centurytel.net wrote:

Lisa,

You will be glad to know there is no conspiracy here. Urandir is
currently being investigated by Federal Authorities in his
"Project Portal" UFO sect and it has been requested that we do
not further any promotion. We also do not want our conference
used as a battle ground for International dispute and we respect
Brazilian authorities to continue their investigations.

We also do not want our sales based on this case which could
potentially mislead a lot of people. We reserve that right. We
would never ask Linda to stop investigating so we stand by our
decision to cancel her altogether. We hope she works with the
Brazilian UFO community for the truth and are referring people
to the Ozark conference in April where she will be attending.

Sincerely,
Charlette LeFevre
Seattle UFO/Paranormal Group

Lisa W. wrote:

Just a note to let you know that I was planning on attending the
Seattle Conference but on hearing that Linda Moulton Howe was
dis-invited due to the badgering of others intent on NOT hearing
her research, I will NEVER attend another one of your
conferences!

If honest research and debate are censored due to the heavy-
handed tactics of skeptics who are threatened  by Linda's and
Dr. Levengood's findings on the samples from Brazil, then, what
is the use of even having a so-called fair UFO  Conference?  It
is neither fair nor honest.

Linda Moulton Howe is thorough in her research. What is being
done to her is just another "Doug and Dave" job. I've been to
the Seattle Conference before and there were guests there who
might have been easily "selling a line." It was always up to ME
and the rest of the Conference goers to be "adult enough" to
"make up our OWN minds" based on the research given us.

Now, someone has succeeded in getting Linda "kicked-out" of the
upcoming Seattle Conference just because they "wrote more e-
mails."  That to ME would be enough reason to INVITE her as
there is definitely something in what she has found that is
causing this massive SMEAR campaign against her name.

Isn't honest debate good for Ufology? What is there to fear from
Linda's research? If it is an outright "Hoax" as others have
claimed, then where is the harm?  This sounds so much like an
"inside job" by someone who is VERY threatened by what Linda has
found out about the Urandir case in Brazil.

                                                Lisa W.



Linda:

1. In Brazil, the document that you describe in your e-mail is
issued to anyone, anytime, very easily. It is just a "instant
photograph" of someone s judicial status, if she or he has any
problem with the Justice _at_that_ specific moment.

2. That kind of document is issued by federal authorities for a
small fee, but if you have problems with the law then you can
buy forged ones exactly identical for like US$ 50. Lots of
people buy that to "prove" that she or he has no problem with
the law at a particular time.

3. By the above items 1 and 2, I don't mean that Urandir either
faked the document, bought a fake document from someone or even
that he isn't actually clear of Justice problems. In fact, he
was cleared from that particular problem of selling what wasn't
his.

4. The circumstances of such a _clear_up_ are very suspicious,
as some of his old partners in his scam came up after they have
broken partnership with Urandir to say that an amount of R$ 40
thousand reais (about US$ 17 thousand) was used to bribe
authorities to have Urandir released. I verified that story and
got serious evidences of that, but have no material proof of it.
The attorney involved in the case told me that he had never seen
such _speed_in_a release_ proceedings in his life before&

5. The money to pay Urandir's release would have been collected
from volunteers all over Brazil, followers and enthusiasts that
would have contributed in cash to the cause. By what I heard,
however, much more than R$ 40 thousand (about US$ 17 thousand)
would have been collected and it would have increased Urandir's
partners greed, who them decided to keep the change, causing a
rupture in the scam.

6. If the press wasn't all over the case at the time, the
bribery probably would have cost half of that. Bribes don't
surprise anyone in my country. In Brazil we have federal judges
and ministers of the Supreme Court selling sentences and release
orders ("habeas corpus") to narcodealers all the time. Some of
the negotiations are made by congressmen. So, buy someone s
release from jail is very easy here, unfortunately.

7. But suppose that all the above is just fiction, invention or
delusion from my mind. Please, Linda, consider at least that
Urandir HIMSELF confessed that he sold 6,000 (six thousand)
shares of a land that wasn't his, for R$ 1,400.00 each (or about
US$ 600 at the time). The total is US$ 3,6 MILLION DOLLARS. And
why the people bought the shares? Because Urandir INDUCED them
to believe that by doing so that they would be SAFE from
Armageddon and could be RESCUED by the extraterrestrials at his
command.

8. Even if he got cleared up by Justice, wouldn't item 7 be
enough for a serious UFO researcher and/or journalist think
twice before take that person s word for fact ?

Linda, do whatever you will with this info. Or simply ignore it,
as you've been doing so far. I shall later comment on your new
support to the alleged explosion of the light at Urandir friend
s farm, back in 2001. I have this other hoax fully, completely
and deeply documented in many ways. I was with the TV crew that
interviewed both Urandir and the farm's owner, along with
several of their neighbors, police officials, city major etc etc
etc.

A. J. Gevaerd

PS.: Just another correction: I was not one of the responsible
for Urandir land fraud lawsuit, as you state, and that is
another lie from Felipe Castelo Branco. I never entered a
lawsuit against Urandir, as it is not my problem. The only thing
I did that made him arrested was to go to public notary, where
anyone can go, and request copies of the certificates of
ownership that Urandir should have registered of the land he was
selling, Anyone is entitled of doing that, too. The documents
came out to show that the land belonged to someone else, and I
sent it to the authorities as a concerned citizen.










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                         Re: Postmodernism - Denzler

From: Brenda Denzler <bdenzler1@email.msn.com>
Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 13:23:21 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 17:27:04 -0500
Subject: Re: Postmodernism - Denzler


By the way: To Dick Hall and all the others on this List who are
empiricists by nature - although I have certain affinities with
postmodernism in my own thought, this does not mean I decry or
dismiss the empirical method. In fact, I would hate to touch a
ufology that existed without it. I have admired Dick Hall's work
for years.

And although I cannot presume to speak for George Hansen, I know
that he is even more keen for and knowledgeable about scientific
method than I am, at least in experimentally-based science.
You'd think this would be the kind of thing sloughed off by
some- one who appreciated post-modernism, but it's not. Or at
least, not always.


Brenda Denzler







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                         Re: Postmodernism - Hansen

From: George Hansen <gphansen2001@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 11:18:11 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 17:29:51 -0500
Subject: Re: Postmodernism - Hansen


 >From: Brenda Denzler <bdenzler1@email.msn.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 09:10:41 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Postmodernism - Denzler

 >From: Andrew Dabrowski <dabrowsa@indiana.edu>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto<ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 16:45:21 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Postmodernism



Dabrowski asserts--

"If we're still arguing about UFOs after another 1000 years,
then OK. But 50 years is not a long time in human history."

In actuality, UFOs have been recognized, discussed, and debated
for thousands of years. Just look at the UFO accounts in the
Bible.

The same is true of other paranormal phenomena. The disputes on
the supernatural between the Sadducees and the Pharisees at the
time of Christ are strikingly similar to those between CSICOP
and paranormal researchers today.


To his credit, Dabrowski admits--

"There's a lot of uncertainty in UFO research: are these
recollections accurate, is that witness a hoaxer or liar, how
far away is the figure in that photo? These can be extremely
difficult questions to answer, often being impossible to arrive
at a consensus on."

This does indeed characterize the field of ufology. That needs
to be explicitly accommodated in any comprehensive theory of
UFOs, and of the paranormal generally.


Brenda Denzler explains --

"Pomo is, in a sense, a celebration of the uncertainties. Some-
times a grudging but good-humored celebration; other times a
downright raucous veritable Mardi Gras of a celebration."

Such raucous celebrations are examples of liminal conditions.
Denzler's metaphor here is entirely in keeping with
anthropological concepts of liminality. Ambiguity is a prime
characteristic of such conditions.


Denzler reports--

"What "pomo" is all about is bringing uncertainty out
from under the rug"

This is correct, and it's about time that ufologists explicitly
recognize this to be inherent in UFO phenomena.


Denzler recommended "Laboratory Life" by Woolgar and Latour. I
would also recommend their work on reflexivity that was
published in "Knowledge and Reflexivity" a volume edited by
Woolgar. Reflexivity inherently breaks down the subject-object
binary opposition, and that is also a property of paranormal
phenomena (including UFO phenomena).


George P. Hansen
The Trickster and the Paranormal
http://www.tricksterbook.com


Reference--

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2003/mar/m08-004.shtml

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2003/mar/m08-012.shtml

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2003/mar/m08-010.shtml


=====

The Trickster and the Paranormal

http://www.tricksterbook.com







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                   A. J. Gevaerd On SDI Tonight - 03-08-03

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 17:54:32 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 17:54:32 -0500
Subject: A. J. Gevaerd On SDI Tonight - 03-08-03


I try not to plug 'Strange Days... Indeed' the radio program
that I host, Saturday nights at 21:00 Easter on NewsTalk 1010
CFRB in Toronto and The Web, here. There are, however,
exceptions and tonight is one of them.

Brazilian UFO researcher, publisher/editor of Revista UFO,
Director of MUFON Brazil, A. J. Gevaerd will join us tonight to
discuss some of the strangeness that has been occuring on his
turf, recently. Also on the program tonight, Dave Furlotte,
Stephen G. Bassett & John Velez.

Should you wish to listen you'll need to D/L SurferNet which you
can get via:

http://www.cfrb.com

or:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/sdi/program/sdi2003.html


The program runs until 12:OO midnight, Eastern.


ebk








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               Re: From Linda Moulton Howe on March 7, 2003 -

From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 19:09:47 -0300
Fwd Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 18:44:40 -0500
Subject: Re: From Linda Moulton Howe on March 7, 2003 -


 >From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >To: Linda Moulton Howe <earthfiles@earthfiles.com>
 >Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 12:58:41 -0300
 >Subject: Fw: From Linda Moulton Howe on March 7, 2003

Folk of UFO UpDates:

It may seem very strange what I stated in my previous e-mail, precisely in
the item 6. It should read much better like this:

"6. If the press wasn't all over the case at the time, the bribery probably
would have cost half of that. Bribes don't surprise anyone in my country. In
Brazil we have federal judges and ministers of the Supreme Court _ACCUSED_
of selling sentences and release orders ("habeas corpus") to narcodealers
all the time. Some of the negotiations are made by congressmen. So, buy
someone s release from jail is very easy here, unfortunately."

I only inserted the word accused. We have to give to these peoples the right
of being considered innocent until (if) found guilty. As a matter of fact,
in this very moment we are watching a new scandal in Brazil, in which some
judges and a minister from high courts have been removed from their places
because of accusations of selling habeas corpus to the biggest narco-dealers
of all times in my country. And the negotiation was supposedly done by a
congressman that have just given up from his term at the National Congress
because of that. And by doing that he cannot be properly punished, as none
of guys of such stature are in Brazil.

I love the truth and I would like to have this straight, so I post this for
the record.

All the best.

A. J. Gevaerd






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   Mar > Mar 9

                        Re: Postmodernism - Dabrowski

From: Andrew Dabrowski <dabrowsa@indiana.edu>
Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 14:58:36 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2003 14:45:31 -0500
Subject: Re:  Postmodernism - Dabrowski


 >From: Brenda Denzler <bdenzler1@email.msn.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 09:10:41 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Postmodernism

 >>From: Andrew Dabrowski <dabrowsa@indiana.edu>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 16:45:21 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Postmodernism

 ><snip>

 >>What irks me about pomo is that it's often simply another way of
 >>brushing uncertainty under the rug:

 >Au contraire. What "pomo" is all about is bringing uncertainty
 >out from under the rug where empiricism wants to banish it (if
 >it can't defeat it, first).

I grant that pomo does, briefly, bring uncertainty out from
under the rug, but only to immediately banish it by declaring
all sides equally right. Uncertainty is when either A or not A
might be true, and you don't know which. Pomos believe that A
and not A are both true. That is not uncertainty, that is
shirking the real difficulties that uncertainty presents: doubt.
Pomos don't doubt, they seem quite certain they've got it all
worked out: everybody is right. If all viewpoints are equally
valid there is no hard work left to do. That's the Pomo version
of head-in-the-sand.

 >Not only is this galling to empiricism -- to have these
 >uncertainties flaunted as if they might *mean* something --,
 >everything is made worse by the fact that pomo then turns around
 >and says, "Not only these swept-under things exist, but the
 >uncertainties you say you HAVE defeated are not really all that
 >defeated, after all." Now *that* assertion does not just gall
 >empiricism, but inflames it.

I haven't seen any good case that pomo has made against science.
Have you seen any penetrating critiques of relativity, or
Newtonian mechanics for that matter? In every culture in the
world all carts, shacks, and treehouses obey Newton's laws.

 >Pomo is, in a sense, a celebration of the uncertainties. Some-
 >times a grudging but good-humored celebration; other times a
 >downright raucous veritable Mardi Gras of a celebration. IMHO,
 >it is in the latter situation that post-modernspeak lives -- in
 >that kind of inebriated, scarcely-intelligible revelry. It is in
 >that spirit that Sokal did his brilliant sting.

Are you actually citing Alan Sokal's "sting" as positive example
of pomo at work? Sokal showed pomo up for the fraud it is by
submitting an intentionally vacuus paper to Social Text, where
it was accepted. Thus proving that even pomo's own journal
editors can't tell the difference between sense and nonsense.
See e.g:

http://dannyreviews.com/h/Intellectual_Impostures.html

If you're able to twist that into an endorsement of pomo then
you're capable of anything.


--
-----------------------------------------------------------
Andrew Dabrowski      |     Lueckenlos ist die Welt, doch
SE 117   5-5470       | zusammengehalten ... von den
Verschwundenen.
dabrowsa@indiana.edu  | Sie sind ueberall.
-Enzensberger






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                    FOIA Request To DOD Inspector General

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net>
Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 16:19:21 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2003 14:51:36 -0500
Subject: FOIA Request To DOD Inspector General


To: hotline@dodig.osd.mil
TO:  Inspector General
      U. S. Department of Defense
      The Pentagon
      Washington, DC  20301

FROM:  Larry W. Bryant
        3518 Martha Custis Drive
        Alexandria, VA  22302

DATE:  March 8, 2003

In a letter to you of Nov. 22, 2002, Sen. Charles E. Grassley
asked you to "conduct a complete and thorough review of the
[DOD-developed/operated] TIA [Total Information Awareness]
program."

Accordingly -- in order to help shed more public light on that
program's funding/leadership/operations/motivations and its
ramifications for government accountability and civil liberty --
  I hereby submit this letter as a formal, written freedom-of-
information request that you send me a copy of the entire DOD-IG
case file, to date, of all information/records generated and
received by your office in response to (and granting of) Sen.
Grassley's request.

Because of the inherent public-interest nature of this FOIA
request, I ask that you waive all records-search fees incident
to your fulfilling it.

Please note that I'm snail-mailing to you a signed printout of
this e-formatted letter.



LARRY W. BRYANT

Copies furnished to:

   Sen. Grassley

   Mark S. Zaid, Esq. (Washington, D.C.)

   Chairman, Subcommittee on Government Information, Management,
     and Technology -- U. S. House of Representatives







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             Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 14:11:33 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2003 14:53:14 -0500
Subject: Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S


 >From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 21:23:19 +0000
 >Subject: Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S

 >>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 12:14:10 -0800
 >>Subject: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S

 >>Hello all:

 >>Does anybody want to pursue this matter? It came in via my
 >>website.

 >We had exactly the same entered yesterday on a sighting report
 >form for UFO Roundup.

 >The same information was filled in for Location, Date, Approach
 >Direction, Departure Direction, Witness Direction, Description,
 >Color/Shape, Height & Speed!

 >Slight overkill I think!

 >Wonder who else it has been sent to?

 >John Hayes

 >webmaster@ufoinfo.com

 >UFOINFO:- http://www.ufoinfo.com
 >
 >Official Archives for UFO Roundup, AUFORN Australian
 >UFO Reports and Experiences, UFO + PSI Magazine
 >plus archives of Filer's Files, Oz Files, UFO News UK
 >and UFO Sightings Italia.



Hello John:

That makes at least 3 important websites the fellow wrote to. I
think that's a lot of successful work for somebody who cannot
spell, nor parse a sentence, nor distinguish between the subject
line and the body of an email.

Why do I smell a rat?

The seemingly deliberately rough-hewn message I got gave no
details at all about dates, time, place, etc. .. not even the
name of the documentary.

Could this be a test, along the lines of "Who is more credulous
than who?" Things like that are sometimes done in psychology or
journalism departments, some less subtle than others.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch






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   Mar > Mar 9

             Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
Date: 8 Mar 2003 23:04:32 -0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2003 15:02:13 -0500
Subject: Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S



EBK, Listers,

I contacted Robert (AKA Thumper) and below you'll find his
reply. I plan to take him up on his offer; sounds intriguing to
me.

I have no expertise with cam recorders so can't offer him any
advice in that area. Maybe someone on the list might be
interested in lending a hand.

Ed

 >From: egehrman@psln.com
 >To: thumper_0007
 >Subject: UFO
 >Date: 7 Mar 2003 19:55:00 -0800


 >Thumper,

 > I'd certainly be interested in
 >seeing what you have found re the UFO
 >and aircraft carriers.
 >Please contact me at
 >egehrman@psln.com

 >Look forward to hearing from you.
 >Ed





KEEP IN TOUCH   ..yes they can be seen..send me a vcr tape and
self address,envelope ill make the copy and send it to you.. co
of robert mackey  pobox 1524seward alaska 99664 also lots of
sightings up in this area of alaska..just got a460xdigital zoom
handy cam vision but its not that great at night filming its a
sony 8 mm hi 8 with night vision but at night we cant even film
stars in the sky any hints to what were doing wrong.and plus
what is the best equipment for filming at night ,as we really
want to document what were seeing up here in the night skys any
donations of old filming gear wii be greatly appricated,and info
on filming at night but you must at the begginning part where
the planes start taking off from the carrier..go through the
viedo frame by frame ok till plus past the point where you see
torpedo planes flying in motion the documentry is;;;[[[ the
world at war vol.23 ]]]]made through MCMLXXII thames
television....Thorn EMIvideo...im keeping my copy but go rent
one ill futher watch it again and get the frame photos number
for you ok...frame by frame tho..i barley seen it at first it
looked like a white flash moving in a weird fashion across the
screen but fast..then i slowed it down just to see..and bang
there it is..not only one but many ufo,s........bullets cant
move in circles so itsnot bullets or other planes as you can see
them pass through and behind then move in front then on top then
below its quite revealing

robert





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   Mar > Mar 9

             Re: UFOs In The Bible [was: Postmodernism - Hansen]

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 19:29:50 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2003 17:56:01 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs In The Bible [was: Postmodernism - Hansen]


 >From: George Hansen <gphansen2001@yahoo.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 11:18:11 -0800 (PST)
 >Subject: Re: Postmodernism

 >>From: Brenda Denzler <bdenzler1@email.msn.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 09:10:41 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Postmodernism - Denzler
 >
 >>From: Andrew Dabrowski <dabrowsa@indiana.edu>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto<ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 16:45:21 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Postmodernism


 >Dabrowski asserts--

 >"If we're still arguing about UFOs after another 1000 years,
 >then OK. But 50 years is not a long time in human history."

 >In actuality, UFOs have been recognized, discussed, and debated
 >for thousands of years. Just look at the UFO accounts in the
 >Bible. ...

George,

I don't see where it's debated anywhere in the Bible. It was
just accepted that Yahweh would sometimes ride around in his sky
chariot. Ezekiel may have tried to interpret what he saw, but
where was the debate?


Jim Deardorff






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                        Re: Postmodernism - Dabrowski

From: Andrew Dabrowski <dabrowsa@indiana.edu>
Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 23:05:22 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2003 18:29:07 -0500
Subject: Re: Postmodernism - Dabrowski


 >From: George Hansen <gphansen2001@yahoo.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 11:18:11 -0800 (PST)
 >Subject: Re: Postmodernism
 >
 >>From: Brenda Denzler <bdenzler1@email.msn.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 09:10:41 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Postmodernism - Denzler
 >>From: Andrew Dabrowski <dabrowsa@indiana.edu>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto<ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 16:45:21 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Postmodernism
 >
 >Dabrowski asserts--
 >"If we're still arguing about UFOs after another 1000 years,
 >then OK. But 50 years is not a long time in human history."
 >In actuality, UFOs have been recognized, discussed, and debated
 >for thousands of years. Just look at the UFO accounts in the
 >Bible.

I believe the figure of 50 years was originally cited by you as
a measure of how long people have been arguing about UFOs. That
figure is more appropriate since our current understanding of
the UFO problem only goes back about that far.

 >The same is true of other paranormal phenomena. The disputes on
 >the supernatural between the Sadducees and the Pharisees at the
 >time of Christ are strikingly similar to those between CSICOP
 >and paranormal researchers today.

Well the truth is there's no statute of limitations operative
here. People were thinking about mathematics for thousands of
years before even the cubic equation was solved. Just because a
problem is open for 50 or 1000 or 10,000 years doesn't mean it
will never be solved. I don't understand why you find that
conclusion irresistible in the case of UFOs (or paranormal
phenomena for that matter).

 >To his credit, Dabrowski admits--
 >"There's a lot of uncertainty in UFO research: are these
 >recollections accurate, is that witness a hoaxer or liar, how
 >far away is the figure in that photo? These can be extremely
 >difficult questions to answer, often being impossible to arrive
 >at a consensus on."
 >This does indeed characterize the field of ufology. That needs
 >to be explicitly accommodated in any comprehensive theory of
 >UFOs, and of the paranormal generally.
 >

Sure, but that's just a matter of ordinary common sense,
modesty, and prudence. There's no need to be ostentatious about
it.

 >Brenda Denzler explains --
 >"Pomo is, in a sense, a celebration of the uncertainties. Some-
 >times a grudging but good-humored celebration; other times a
 >downright raucous veritable Mardi Gras of a celebration."
 >Such raucous celebrations are examples of liminal conditions.
 >Denzler's metaphor here is entirely in keeping with
 >anthropological concepts of liminality. Ambiguity is a prime
 >characteristic of such conditions.
 >
 >Denzler reports--
 >"What "pomo" is all about is bringing uncertainty out
 >from under the rug"
 >This is correct, and it's about time that ufologists explicitly
 >recognize this to be inherent in UFO phenomena.


That's fine as far it goes, but you also seem to advocate giving
up trying to ever actually resolve any of these uncertainties.
That's what I object to.


-- Andrew Dabrowski

|...it is a ghost's right/his element is so fine/being
Bloomington IN USA |sharpened by his death/to drink from the
wine breath/ dabrowsa@indiana.edu|while our gross palates drink
from the whole wine. -Yeats






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   Mar > Mar 9

                                'Ghostwatch'?

From: Philip Mantle <philip.mantle@eidosnet.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 11:24:44 -0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2003 18:30:36 -0500
Subject: 'Ghostwatch'?


Hi there,

I wonder can anyone help me? I'm trying to locate a copy of the
BBC TV show of a few years back entitled 'Ghostwatch'. The
presenter I believe was Michael Parkinson and if my memory
serves me correct the show was all a bit of a hoax. If anyone
can help me locate a copy of this show I'd be most grateful. I
will of course meet any costs for a copy of this show.


Many thanks,

Philip Mantle
philip.mantle@eidosnet.co.uk







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               Kecksburg Wants To Know What Fell From The Sky

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2003 18:36:43 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2003 18:36:43 -0500
Subject: Kecksburg Wants To Know What Fell From The Sky

http://www.post-gazette.com/neigh_westmoreland/20030309kecksburgwestmor1p1.asp


People In Kecksburg Want To Resolve What Fell From The Sky In 1965

Pittsburgh, PA
Monday
March 10, 2003


Sunday, March 09, 2003

By Tom Gibb, Post-Gazette Staff Writer

KECKSBURG, Pa. -- Dec. 9, 1965. A day that will live in
incongruity.

That was the late afternoon when something -- or nothing -- shot
from the heavens over this south edge of Westmoreland County and
landed -- or didn't -- in a gully a mile outside of town.

Really. It came down, an acorn-shaped something a size up from a
Volkswagen Beetle, some insist.

Bunk, say others.

In the intervening 37 years, the dispute busted up a few
friendships. Even now, pair Kecksburg and UFO in a sentence and
it kick-starts a back-and-forth, said Kathy Leeper, bartender at
the local firefighters club.

"They were talking about it just the other night," she said.

So, now come UFO sleuths, figuring to settle this by getting as
much of the public behind them as they can and demanding a look
at the record.

Except that key elements of the record, if there is much of one,
may be locked away in government files. And the UFO sleuths, a
coalition of cash, legal expertise and ardor for probing the
supernormal, figure that getting at it will take a major
petition drive, a congressional investigation and maybe some
legal muscle.

"This case is so incredibly fascinating," said Leslie Kean, a
San Francisco-area freelance journalist whose writing on UFOs
appeared from opinion pages of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution
to news pages of the Boston Globe. "Even now, the trail is not
cold."

For years, retiree Robert Bitner, former Kecksburg fire chief, a
man who believes that something noteworthy fell from the sky,
hasn't spoken with his brother-in-law. He maintains only a
nodding acquaintance with neighbor and fellow ex-fire chief Ed
Myers. It's a cold war born of the UFO dispute.

"I'd love to know what the government knows about it," Bitner
said. "It might help us end this thing for good."

That's end, not forget.

The Roswell of Pa.

What looks like a Bunyanesque brown acorn perched on a platform
next to the fire hall is actually a 7-foot replica of what
believers say they saw -- modeled a dozen years ago for the
television show "Unsolved Mysteries," then put on permanent
display here.

North of town, the twisting township route closest to the
purported crash site has been renamed Meteor Road.

The records hunt begins with a newly launched online petition
drive, at www.signpetition.com, to persuade Congress to put its
General Accounting Office on the case, a gambit that Kean said
might shake lose records that the general public hasn't seen.

Then, through a law firm doing freedom-of-information work, the
coalition would sue where it felt government agencies
shortchanged requests for declassified files on Kecksburg.

The drive is being bankrolled by television's SciFi Channel,
where fare ranges from "The Twilight Zone" reruns to the
ultimate vision of the American melting pot, a serial about
space aliens blending in with the Roswell, N.M., locals.

This isn't about Kecksburg's promotional value to SciFi, channel
Special Projects Director Larry Landsman vowed. "We're committed
to solving this," he said.

Along with reporter Kean, the records hunt includes Greensburg
resident Stan Gordon, 53, an electronics salesman and, since age
16, gumshoe tracking the unexplained.

Gordon's pursuit of enigmas ranging from UFOs to Bigfoot,
detailed at his Web site, www.westol.com/~paufo/, brings 200 e-
mails a day and "phone calls at 2, 3, 4 in the morning," he
said. His Kecksburg inquiry, begun when he was a teenager, has
yielded reams of files and produced a 92-minute, $25 videotape,
"Kecksburg: The Untold Story," a 1998 production bearing the tag
line "New Mexico has Roswell, but in Pennsylvania it was
Kecksburg."

Sales, he said, "have been in the hundreds."

"I keep an open mind," said Gordon, who recites Kecksburg
particulars with edge-of-his-seat urgency, " ... but something
of military importance seems to have fallen."

He has critics.

Between me and trees

Ed Myers, fire chief in 1965, complains that Gordon "turned this
into a circus." And Bob Young, an amateur astronomer who
lectures at the state planetarium in Harrisburg and studied the
Kecksburg puzzle, said people who insist that something slammed
down outside town ignored hard evidence that the matter was much
ado about a meteor that came nowhere close.

But the UFO case also has people dropping tantalizing hints.

Retiree Bob Schmidt, an amateur astronomer in Pittsburgh's North
Hills, tells of a friend, wary of reporters, who worked with
NASA and had associates who said they examined debris retrieved
from Kecksburg.

"They said it looks very much like a Russian nose cone," Schmidt
said.

Around Kecksburg, 300-some people strong, that's the talk that
rumpuses are made of.

On that dreary 1965 afternoon, the episode began in a flash -- a
"brilliant fireball" lighting the dusk sky, according to the
next morning's Post-Gazette.

It was meteor, photographed by at least a couple earthlings,
visible from Chicago to New York State to Virginia, astronomers
Von Del Chamberlain and David Krause of Michigan State
University wrote in a paper published 20 months later by the
Royal Astronomical Society of Canada.

The space rock burst and vanished 15 miles southeast of Windsor,
Ontario, but not before fooling spectators as it streaked into
the horizon, Chamberlain wrote.

"Observers in several states were certain the object landed
within a mile from them," he wrote in a follow-up paper for the
state of Michigan's Geological Survey.

"Individuals often report: 'It definitely went between me and
the nearby trees.' "

Actually, it did, says Bill Bulebush.

'Big, huge piece of metal'

Bulebush, 40 then, was home just outside Kecksburg, tinkering
with his 1964 Corvair.

He saw the flaming whatever-it-was fly over, then double back
"just like it was controlled," he said last week.

And when he watched it go down just north of town, Bulebush
said, he drove off after it, up what's now Meteor Road.

There, maybe a quarter-mile into the woods, lay this thing --
  burnt orange, maybe 10 feet long, shaped like an acorn, he
said.

"It was smoldering and cracking, sparks coming off it ... no
sign of life, with a sour smell, sort of like sulfur," Bulebush
said.

It was half-buried, after tearing a trench into the ground with
a belly-flop landing, he said.

"I went down and stood behind a tree and watched it ... 10 feet
away," he said.

And when he heard people tramping through the woods, he said, he
got scared and hightailed back home -- where wife, Betty
Bulebush, concedes she met the story with enough lack of
interest that "I kept watching TV."

James Romansky, now 57 and a disabled machinist living near
Derry, insists he came upon it, too, as a volunteer firefighter,
called from Lloydsville, 25 miles from Kecksburg, to comb woods
for what was supposed to be a crashed plane.

In the flashlight beams, he said, he and a handful of searchers
saw "one big, huge piece of metal buried in the mud ... goldish,
copperish, yellow, quiet as a church mouse."

The wreckage bore markings Romansky likens to hieroglyphics.
Nobody touched it.

"I'm running around, looking for bodies and scratching my head
and my butt because there aren't any," Romansky said. "There's
no loose pieces. This thing has no rivets, no portals, no way to
get in and out."

Out of the dark came "two guys with crewcuts and trench coats,"
Romansky said. "And they said, 'This is quarantined. You get the
hell out,' very loud and very adamant."

Then-Fire Chief Ed Myers' response, in a word: hooey.

"Afterward, there was no sign of it," he said. "There wasn't so
much as a bird spot."

People who figure that something indeed hit the ground suggested
origins ranging from extraterrestrials to a misfired NIKE
missile to a remnant of Kosmos 96, a Soviet probe that was bound
for Venus but, according to U.S. Space Command, crashed in
Canada 14 hours earlier.

Like to get it resolved

No matter what the case, reporter Kean said, the case is ripe
for investigation because it has living witnesses who saw
something on the ground and three decades worth of evidence
rounded up by Gordon.

"It's a very good case," she said.

Except that in Kecksburg, even what happened in plain sight is
open to dispute.

U.S. Air Force documents tell of a three-man team coming from
its Oakdale radar station, finding nothing and heading home in
early morning.

Retired firefighter Bitner recalls seeing "a dozen" military
men.

Carl Porch, whose farmland sits nearby, says there barely were
any.

"There were all kind of military people," said Robert Gatty, now
publishing a trade magazine in the Washington, D.C., suburbs,
then a reporter with the Tribune-Review in Greensburg. "I
couldn't get past them."

"And the government didn't send all them out because of some
shooting star," Bitner said.

By Romansky's account, the military trucked out its find under
tarp, on a flatbed truck, and commandeered the fire hall as a
command post, stationing armed guards who turned him away when
he tried to use the restroom.

Myers' response: More hooey. The firehouse was open and people
jammed the social club, he said.

"We probably sold as much beer as we ever did because of all the
people," he said.

So it goes. Storytellers question each others' credibility.
Critics who turned up a criminal past that included theft and
armed robbery scoff at Romansky's believability. Gordon defends
him for offering corroborated detail. Allegations simmer of
people massaging stories over the years.

If townspeople figure that the new push to open records will
settle this, though, a spokesman for Kecksburg's congressman
offers little hope. If there are files locked away and the
government justified sealing them, said Brad Clemenson, aide to
Rep. John Murtha, D-Johnstown, GAO probably won't find a
rationale to unseal them.

That's not what a lot of people want to hear.

"This thing dies off, then it comes up," current Fire Chief
Duane Hutter said. "Everybody'd like it if we got it resolved."

Tom Gibb can be reached at tgibb@post-gazette.com or 412-263-1601.


[UFO UpDates Thanks Loren Coleman for the lead]









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   Mar > Mar 10

                        Italian UFO Newsflash No. 387

From: Edoardo Russo <edoardo.russo@tiscali.it>
Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2003 18:26:17 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 18:43:50 -0500
Subject: Italian UFO Newsflash No. 387


ITALIAN UFO NEWSFLASH

ISSUE NO. 387 -  6 MARCH 2003

by the Italian Center for UFO Studies
(Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici, CISU)

Contents:

- Italian Air Force Statistics for 2002
- New Issue of CISU Journal
- UFO Stamps and the Like: The New Catalog


ITALIAN AIR FORCE STATISTICS FOR 2002

Only 6 UFO sightings allegedly took place in Italy during 2002
and were recorded by the special office of the General Staff of
the Italian Military Air Force.

As has occurred almost regularly since 1986, the Reparto
Generale Sicurezza (Department of Security Management) has
published its list of UFO cases gathered and transmitted by
various military units and the Italian Carabinieri police force
during the previous year
[www.aeronautica.difesa.it/csma/rgs/OVNI2002.asp].

Still, the update for 2002 is more disappointing than usual:
only six observations were said to have occurred in our country,
in contrast with the over 700 collected and recorded by the
Italian Center for UFO Studies (CISU). Such a gap was already
evidenced by the preceding list relative to 2001, which only
constited of 12 reports vs. the 760 cases collected by
Ufologists [www.cisu.org/ovni2001.htm].

[Report by Nico Sgarlato]


NEW ISSUE OF CISU JOURNAL

All subscribers and CISU members will soon be receiving Issue 25
of the periodical "UFO  - Rivista di informazione ufologica"
("UFO  Information Magazine") from the Italian Center for UFO
Studies [www.arpnet.it/ufo/riu25_28.htm].

Features include the following: Ufology in Hessdalen (Nico
Conti); underwater UFOs (Marco Bianchini); the Swedish Military
and UFOs (Clas Svahn); Italian cases of "earth lights" (Giuseppe
Stilo); the Italian Wave of 2001 (Giorgio Abraini); a wide
"special" on the Mothman in film (Danilo Arona), in real-life
(Bob Rickard) and in UFO literature (Pierre Lagrange); the
riddle of UFO "revelators" (Jan Aldrich); rational skepticism
(Roger Evans); the mission of Ufology (Ron Westrum); the life
and death of Milton William Cooper (Giuseppe Stilo); the
sociology of science and prejudice (Claude Maug=E8); and also
columns on news, investigations, caselogs, debates, and CISU
life.

The journal will be distributed in Librerie Feltrinelli
bookstores and at other affiliated retail outlets, with free
shipment to CISU members and subscription available via mail (16
Euro for 4 issues).

[Communication by Gian Paolo Grassino]


UFO STAMPS AND THE LIKE: THE NEW CATALOG

Giancarlo D'Alessandro has completed the new edition of
"PhilCat", the "Catalog of UFO-themed stamps, conference cards
and coins" from all over the world.

The 2003 edition comprises two volumes: the first constitutes
the 326 color pages catalog, reproducing hundreds of stamp-,
coin- and collection-related images directly or indirectly
inspired by UFOs and related topics; the second volume's 100
pages feature the existing bibliography on the argument,
including the complete reproduction of twenty-odd (Italian and
foreign) articles devoted to this theme.

[Communication by Giancarlo D'Alessandro; http://web.tiscali.it/Giada]


Collaborators on this edition were:
Giancarlo D'Alessandro, Gian Paolo Grassino and Nico Sgarlato.


- - -

This is the English translation of UFOTEL, a free
phone/Internet information service on UFOs edited
weekly by  Edoardo Russo for the Italian Center for
UFO Studies (Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici),
available in Italian by calling +39-011-545294,
or by e-mail subscription, or on CISU website
at http://www.arpnet.it/ufo/ultime.htm

UFOTEL is a supplement to "UFO - Rivista di
informazione ufologica", published by the Italian
Center for UFO Studies, registered at Tribunale
di Torino,  No. 3670, on 19 June 1986.
Director: Giovanni Settimo.
Publisher: Cooperativa UPIAR, Corso Vittorio
Emanuele 108, 10121 Turin, Italy

Translated from Italian to English by:
Gary J. Presto, Freelance Italian>English Translator & Proofreader
44 Bickford Ave., Apt. 2
Revere, MA 02151
USA

Tel.: ++1.781.485.1683
FAX: ++1.781.485.1684
E-mail: gpresto@attbi.com
Webpage: http://www.proz.com/translator/723



- - -

(c) 2003 by: CISU,
Corso Vittorio Emanuele 108,  10121 Torino, Italia

This newsletter (as a whole or in part) may be freely
copied, photocopied, reproduced, stored, distributed
and retrieved, at the only condition that Centro Italiano
Studi Ufologici is reported as the source.

You may get it directly via e-mail by subscribing
(just send a blank message to:
cisuflash-subscribe@yahoogroups.com)

The CISU is a no-profit association whose aims are:
- to promote the scientific study of UFO phenomena in Italy;
- to help circulate information about UFO phenomena and studies;
- to coordinate national activities of data collecting and studying.

You may reach Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici:
- by mail: CISU, Corso Vittorio Emanuele 108, 10121 Torino, Italia
- by phone: +39 (011) 30.78.63 (24 hours UFO Hotline)
- by fax: +39 (011) 54.50.33
- by Internet e-mail: cisu@ufo.it
- at the World Wide Web URL: http://www.cisu.org






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   Mar > Mar 10

                       UFO Sightings OZ Files 10.3.03

From: Diane Harrison <auforn@hypermax.net.au>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 09:55:16 +1000
Fwd Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 18:45:39 -0500
Subject: UFO Sightings OZ Files 10.3.03


UFO sighting Edgeroi NSW 2040hr (CE1)
Source: National UFO Hotline 1800 77 22 88:

1800 Callin Code: 02760 25/11/02 NSW
Date: 25/11/02
Day: Monday
Time: 8.40pm DST
Location: Edgeroi (between Moree and Narrabri)
Classification: CE1 (50 mtrs) approx
Duration of sighting: 3 seconds approx
Light colour: red/green
Apparent size: Two road lanes wide
Shape: Unknown
Noise: None
Objects observed: Single
Activity when object seen: Driving
Other witness's: Girlfriend
Name: Peter G

Report

Peter was driving down the Newell Hwy at 8.40pm DST on the 25th
of November just before Edgeroi (just outside of Narribri), with
his girlfried in his truck. They had the windows down and were
talking, the radio was not on.There was no vehicles in front of
him and a car a long way behind. Peter suddenly noticed an
object to his left hand side. The object had two red lights at
the front, two red lights at the back and two green lights on
the edges of the middle, no shape could be determined. The
object was approximately 50 mtrs away from the truck at about
telegraph pole height. When first noticed by Peter the object
was travelling at right angles to the ground, with the lights at
a North/South configuration. It appeared to Peter that the
object was either taking evasive action to miss the truck or was
trying to show him something. When Peter got the attention of
his girlfriend (who had not sighted the object due to it's
incredible speed) the object had now flattened out to a more
conventional East/West configuration and only the rear red
lights could be seen, this was viewed through the open driver's
side window on the right hand side. The geography of the area in
question consists of very flat plains. The object maintained
it's very low altitude over the plains to disappear within 1.5
to 2 seconds over the horizon. Peter stated that the object was
like "something out of "Star Wars" and was the quickest thing he
had ever seen". No noise was heard during the sighting. The
object was estimated to be about the size of two road lanes by
Peter. Peter rang Coonabarrabran Observatory, Police and various
observatories before calling Williamtown Air Base, who referred
Peter to the Hotline Number. When Peter got to Edgeroi, he had
cold shivers for three hours after the encounter. Previous to
this encounter, Peter had not given any thought at all to
possible ET visitation, he is now convinced he saw something
totally unexplainable. Due to the sincerity of the witness and
the facts pertaining to this case I have no doubt Peter saw a
genuine UFO. My personal belief is that Peter saw an ET craft.
Peter is going to call back in the next few days to the general
store in Edgeroi to see if there are any other reports and will
phone the Hotline if there is. I did not feel comfortable asking
Peter about missing time/abduction scenario's as he was
experiencing difficulty dealing with what had just happened to
him as it was, perhaps later.

Regards Doug Moffett NSW State Director AUFORN

UFO sighting Bellata NSW 2117hr (CE2)
Source: National UFO Hotline 1800 77 22 88:

1800 Callin Code: 02762 30/11/02 NSW
Date: 30/11/02
Day: Saturday
Time: 9.17am DST
Location: Bellata area (between Moree and Narrabri)
Classification: CE2 (sound during experience was very audible and real)
Duration of sighting: 2 minutes approx
Light colour: orange/white
Apparent size: Lights appeared 6 foot apart at apparent perspective
Shape: Unknown
Noise: Magnified sound of ocean roaring x 25 plus times in quadraphonic
surround sound
Objects observed: Six lights flying in formation
Activity when object seen: On 100,000 acre property opening gate
Other witness's: Wife
Name: John

Report

John is a professional shooter and was opening a gate on the
100,000 acre property he was working on when he noticed six
orange/white lights moving in formation heading West/Southwest
of his position. The lights formed a rectangular pattern with
the bottom three lights slightly in front of the top three. The
objects held this formation during the course of the sighting.
John has been a professional shooter for 25 years and has spent
70% of nights in paddocks but noticed that these lights seemed
out of place in the night sky. John viewed the lights through
the scope of his gun at one point, but the lights only appeared
bigger, without definition of shape. The lights were of an
intermittent nature, with some on and some off as they "
ripped across the night sky & quot "faster than any plane or
jet in John's many observations of same". As the objects
approached approximately 12 o'clock high, John noticed a noise
he first thought was the wind. As the objects moved from 12
o'clock to 3 o'clock, the sound increased to such an extent that
John in a somewhat frightened state went into his four wheel
drive to put the spot lights on fearing " something "
"was going to ram him". John described the sound like something
coming at you. At this point it became the sound and not the
lights that created most consternation for John and his wife.
John described the sound as surrounding him and being like the
roar of the sea magnified 25 to 40 times. Interestingly, John
stated that the sound did not hurt his ears and did not contain
the harsh shrill of jets, nor did the windows of his four wheel
drive rattle. The noise grew to a frightening crescendo before
reducing in volume as the lights moved to 3 o'clock, this noise
lasted for 20 to 30 seconds. At the peak of volume, John felt
that the noise was terrestrial in nature and it was only after
he made the correlation of the lights moving away and the sound
decreasing that he made a connection. The noise was so loud at
one point you could not hear yourself.

Due to John's experience with night time skies, low flying jets,
meteors, satellites and general familiarity with the night sky,
as well as the sounds of the bush, due to his vocation and 25
years of experience, I find this an interesting case. I would
estimate 80% of cases report no noise, 15% report low humming
or whirring and only 5% where the noise becomes the
overwhelming experience of the encounter. Obviously I found John
to be sincere and logical in his reasoning, and find no reason
to doubt his summation of events. The exact date of this
sighting should be confirmed by Wednesday, when John checks his
diary.


Regards
Doug Moffett NSW State Director UFORNSW - AUFORN

UFO sighting O'Sullivan Beach SA 2230hr (NL)
Source: National UFO Hotline 1800 77 22 88:

Callin Code: 2873 05/03/03 State; SA
Date: 05/03/03
Day: Wednesday
Time: 10.30pm -11.00 pm
Location: O'Sullivan Beach
Duration 15 seconds
Lights colour: Bright intermittent flashes of light
Apparent size: slightly larger than the regular satellite or star.
Shape: Star
Noise: silent
Traveling: Erratic movement along a NNW to SSW
Conditions: Clear, warm night. Very clear view of the
night sky.
Objects observed: 1
Activity when seen: Outside drinking coffee.
Other witnesses: 2
Name: Ann & daughter

Report: Ann and her daughter

Ann had gone outside to sit and have a coffee on the western
side of their beach front home when she noticed a bright flash
of white light out to sea and above the water on the horizon.
This was then followed a few seconds later by another flash and
so on until the object disappeared after about 15 seconds. Ann
called her 16-year-old daughter who also saw this. It was too
fast for a plane and too close for a satellite. She also
brought up an event 20 years earlier on the south coast of SA
when she and a friend witnessed a large triangular shaped
object, defined by a row of red lights down each "wing" at Cape
Jervis. This un-nerved them enough to go straight home.

Debbie Payne A.U.R.A -AUFORN Adelaide


UFO sighting Kings Cross NSW 1630hrs (NL)
Source: National UFO Hotline 1800 77 22 88:

1800 Callin Code; 2854 12/02/03 State; NSW
Date: 09/02/03
Day: Sunday
Time: 4.30pm
Location: Kings Cross
Duration of sighting: 1-2 seconds
Lights colour: no lights
Apparent size: About the size of a car
Shape: Knob or helmet shaped object with one or two occupants
Noise: silent
Objects observed: 1
Activity when seen: painting on rooftop
Other witnesses: none
Name: James

Report; James is an artist who lives in Kings Cross. He was
painting on the rooftop of his apartment block when he 'felt'
something watching him. Looking up, he saw a metallic 'knob' or
'helmet' shaped object, about the size of a car, hovering
directly above him. He could "see" one occupant, a "cloaked"
figure, although the object had no windows; this "seeing" was
more a feeling, and James was in fact sure there where two such
figures in the object although he could only "see" one. The
object vanished after about one or two seconds, James thinks in
response to his looking up at it. There was no suggestion that
it went anywhere, it just instantly disappeared.

James had no active interest in UFOs or the paranormal before
the incident. Afterwards he consulted a book he had about UFOs
where he found some photos that where similar to the object he
saw, and from where he may have found the terms "knob-like" and
"helmet-like". He was not disturbed by the incident, and
reported it because he felt it should be reported.

He knows of no other witnesses but wonders if people in nearby
apartments saw it too.

Report by Ralph Bergmann AUFORN NSW

Thank you to everyone who contributed to these reports

--

Kind regards

Diane Harrison

National Director
The Australian UFO Research Network and UFO Hotline.
Australian Skywatch Director

Co Editor
The Australasian UFOlogist Magazine

Tel number 1800 77 22 88 a Free Call
Australian UFO Research Network -
http://www.hypermax.net.au/~auforn
E-mail auforn@hypermax.net.au

A non profit organisation
PO Box 738
Beaudessert 4285
QLD Australia
Tel 07 55 44 6888







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Mar > Mar 10

                           'The Case for The UFO'?

From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 05:41:35 -0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 18:50:41 -0500
Subject: 'The Case for The UFO'?


John has been trying to get this book for a long time now, I
thought I would pass his request on.

Joe

-----

From: John Jacob <jjacob@graphite.com>
Newsgroups: alt.ufo.reports
Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2003 9:35 PM
Subject: Looking for Book


Any information on where one can obtain a copy of "The Case for
The UFO (Varco Annotated Edition)" would be greatly appreciated.


Best Regards,

John Jacobs







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Mar > Mar 10

             Re: Speaking Of Congressional (Non-)Intervention -

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 01:09:40 EST
Fwd Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 18:52:26 -0500
Subject: Re: Speaking Of Congressional (Non-)Intervention -


 >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Re: Speaking Of Congressional (Non-)Intervention
 >Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 09:37:44 -0500

 >>From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 20:04:52 -0500
 >>Subject: And Speaking of Congressional (Non-)Intervention

 >>And Speaking of Congressional (NON-)Intervention.....

 >>... we have this plaintive reminder sent to me by a Ufologist
 >>out West, who laments the mostly non-responsiveness from his own
 >>senator, dating back to 1992. Here's an excerpt from this
 >>citizen's perennial demand for accountability:

 >>"On June 18 you [Senator] wrote that you were forwarding my
 >>letter (below) to the Department of Defense for a reply. To
 >>date, there has been no reply from them, not even a non-
 >>responsive form letter. Did they write you?

 >>"Also, you (or your staff) totally ignored the key paragraph, to
 >>which I have now added '**' at the start. Please let me know
 >>your thoughts on that particular matter, of Congressional
 >>hearings.

 >>"Thank you for your consideration.

 ><snip>

 >Larry-

 >Without new information to open such a "hearing", I'm somewhat
 >amazed that anyone would expect their elected representative to
 >focus on issues other than the pending conflict in the Middle-
 > East, the state of the economy, and foreign policy issues.
 >These would seem to be of much greater importance to a vast
 >majority of average constituents.


Steve, Larry, Listers,

I suspect that the general public of the United States has
reached a point that the only thing on their radar scope is
Iraq, Iraq, Iraq, by the way North Korea, North Korea, and
possibly Iran.

So if the American public is lasered on Iraq, guess what
Congress is focused on and will be until the war ends? Yup,
Iraq. Mix into this any terror attacks in the UK or US after the
war begins on Iraq and that will further grab public attention.

North Korea will be a wild card because they have guessed that
after we get done with Iraq, the troops may go home via North
Korea, so NK is content to agitate, provoke, provocations,
tests, launches and whatever else...the whole time the US is
saying 'don't bother us right now with that... will get back to
you...'

Point to all of this is its probably a waste of time and
resources to chase Congressional hearings until the mess over
seas settles down to "normal."

Cheers,

Robert







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   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Mar > Mar 10

                         Re: Postmodernism - Bennett

From: Colin Bennett <sharkley1@panzerben1.fsworld.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 13:32:57 -0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 18:58:35 -0500
Subject: Re: Postmodernism - Bennett


 >From: Laurel Oplatka calabash2003@webtv.net
 >To <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 19:12:03 -0800 (PST)
 >Subject: Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism -- Oplatka

 >>From: George Hansen gphansen2001@yahoo.com
 >>To <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 07:44:56 -0800 (PST)
 >>Subject: Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism -- Hansen

 >>>From: John Auchettl Praufo@aol.com
 >>>To <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 02:57:02 EST
 >>>Subject: Re: Postmodernism -- Auchettl

 >>>>From: Jerome Clark jkclark@frontiernet.net
 >>>>To <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>>Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 17:58:08 -0600
 >>>>Subject: Re: The Dark Side Of Postmodernism -- Clark

 >So, if modernism is seeking to refine the efficacy of the
 >prevailing systems, PM is moving to change the "rules" of
 >knowledge-systems themselves. This idea, vis a' vis science, is
 >pointed to by Colin in "Politics of the Imagination" when he
 >talks about scientific "discoveries" being merely changes in the
 >product, not the store. Vis a' vis literature, the PM approach
 >is represented (some times) by a more non-linear, stream-of-
 >consciousness style, rather than the non-fragmented, straight
 >line story narrative; for example, Colin's recent "Fourth Day"
 >post is a very clever and artful piece of PM writing. Although
 >this is perhaps a preposterous over-simplication, I want to say
 >that PM craves an end to the dominance of scientific
 >rationality, instead urging an all-embracing approach,
 >emphasizing the importance and relevance of the subconscious, a
 >plurality of viewpoints, images, mystery, magic and myth.

 >In Colin's magical PM recipe, we find blended a sense of the
 >metaphysical, a quantum world view and a really witty sense of
 >play/humor.


 >>The so-called "scientific" paradigms of the old white men of
 >>ufology are obviously inadequate. Bennett provides a very
 >>useful, alternative way of addressing the phenomena.

<snip>

 >>To his credit, Dick Hall understands that Bennett's ideas
 >>severely challenge prevailing notions of science. In his
 >>attacks on Bennett, Hall would find many allies within the
 >>physical sciences. However, those allies will not aid him in
 >>his study of UFOs, rather, they will sneer at him in just the
 >>same way he sneers at Bennett.

 >>>Colin Bennett has a gift that opens up the text. I am very
 >>>surprise how some US groups have reacted to Colin. If you don't
 >>>get it then get someone to read it to you. Go back to the posts,
 >>>Colin has placed up, take your time. Read his books. We need
 >>>more of this type of thinking.

 >>>Jerome Clark, Laurel Oplatka, Brenda Denzler, George P. Hansen
 >>>and many others got the point (message image & text)!

 >>>>I, too, recommend the book. It's wonderfully thought-provoking
 >>>>and very, very funny. Watching much of the response to Colin
 >>>>Bennett on this List, I get the clear sense that many are
 >>>>missing his splendid sense of humor, which Fort himself would
 >>>>have appreciated.

Warning: List Bears, you are entering Postmodern Pirate Town,
the Dark Side of the List. So be careful. One wrong step, and
you might become a virtual guerrilla.

Hello all List Savants,

Well I am heartened indeed at this level of support from Listers
for my attempt to introduce an element of Postmodern thinking
into Ufology. The support is such that as far as this List is
concerned, I think it could be said for the first time that
there is a now a definite Postmodern element in modern Ufology
as represented by this List. Yes, as veterans will know, blood
has flown over the months, but that is always the way with
revolutions proper.

I now feel confident enough to launch the first of a five-part
series on the List showing the development of Postmodernism from
its beginning. But first, in answer to the recent suggestion
form Larry Hatch, I include my brief definition of
Postmodernism. I have used plain language, and have attempted to
show that what we now call postmodernism has a deep historical
context:

Postmodernism is a philosophy whose world-view is based on
single idea. That idea is that what we perceive as objective
fact is an advertising construct created by cultural gaming-
systems. These systems are seen to be archetypal theatres full
of and texts and scripts, and in this scheme of wonder-
management, all human beings are actors with roles, a view
endorsed by no less than William Shakespeare, when he said that
all the world is a stage and all who are in it are actors.
Postmodernism is nothing more or less than a modern expression
of this view. Reject it, and Shakespeare is rejected in turn,
his "Hamlet" being the ultimate postmodern play. Contrast for
example, the Hecuba speech with Hamlet's cursing that follows.
In the first, Hamlet sees "real" tears arising from the Player's
"false" imaginings. In the second he hears his own "false"
cursing from the prompting of a "real" situation, namely the
murder of the King. In the ensuing monologues, Hamlet concludes
that if the real can arise from the false in the first case, and
the false arise from the real in the second, then the universe
has no moral arrow. Up to this point, Dick's quite righteous
accusation of amorality is correct. Hamlet gets to the confused
stage where pushes his sword through the arras not knowing or
caring who is behind it, and kills Polonius.

But notwithstanding, Hamlet does finally take up the moral cause
and kills Claudius, because the moral law is higher than
intellectual law. Thus does Shakespeare solve the
objective/subjective dichotomy by stating that the only reality
that is truly objective is moral. Everything else is staging.
That does not mean that it is not tragic staging, as in Hamlet.
Dick Hall is grossly unfair to postmodernists when he accuses
them of not sharing his obvious moral outrage at the present
turn of events.

But history forgot Shakespeare's world held mind, matter and
moral purpose in a unique Renaissance synthesis The Romantics
struggled to revive such things, and were only partially
successful. Their influence was swamped by the rise of secular
science and industrialisation.

The 1960s movements tried again and were much more successful
than the Romantic Movement, creating a permanent alternative
culture. Such new views are developed necessarily in the course
of time, otherwise cultures would be at a standstill.
Postmodernism is nothing less than such a new view of mind and
matter. It sees facts not as  Newtonian billard ball atoms, but
as streams of advertising, media, information-management, and
degrees of allowance rather than fact or fiction. In the opinion
of many, this view switched on the universal lights to reveal
the interiors of fact to be the interplay of structured of
pieces of manufactured cultural deception whose sole object is
to get agendas into the prime time of consciousness. To see
everything from a nut and bolt to a royal court as a text and a
language of shapes, signs, has created one of the great
revolutions in thought and brought a whole philosophy into
social, political, artistic, and intellectual action. Empirical
Ufology, in embracing what appears to be a very old-fashioned
(almost Victorian) deterministic mechanical science is falling
behind as regards being a part of the fundamental structure of
the modern world.

The Postmodern analysis of fact as a procedure is called
Deconstruction, and in the opinion of many, Postmodernism is the
only philosophy that can begin to make sense of a Web and Media
age. Old industrial input-output factual examination cannot
analyse media, for example. It just does not work in a world
where images, not facts, are the ruling criteria. Postmodernism
sees media and information as a new form of life, strung between
absolute fact and absolute fiction, both of which are seen as
approximations, final only when summed to a theoretical
infinity. (end of definition)

Thus when Dick protests about the amorality of Postmodernism, I
refer him to the Shakespearian solution. Unfortunately since the
death of T.R. Henn of Cambridge many years ago, the Theory of
Tragedy is no longer taught in many university literary courses.
A study of Aristotle's Poetics or Longinus on the Sublime might
enlighten Dick on very relevant questions about the commitment
of philosophers to politics and resolve some of his obvious
doubts about philosophy and moral commitment.

In this debate the List is wonderful cultural theatre. When the
old Left (RIP) was still alive, I can remember exactly similar
arguments raging through the Balliol seminars about
Existentialism and political action and commitment as regards
Vietnam, for example. We now have the UFO and its framework of
reference. The only claim I will make in this area is that I
have had a UFO experience and Dick and the members of what John
Velez calls (blushingly!) the Senior group have not. They can
correct me if I am wrong, but matters have so deteriorated
between us such that we both refer to one another in the third
person that is if we refer to one another at all!

These matters apart, People often get very confused about
postmodernism because they start with the somewhat difficult
Frenchmen. They should go earlier, to Barthes' Mythologies,
Thomas "paradigm" Kuhn's The Structure of Scientific Revolution,
and the unacknowledged father of postmodernism, Charles Fort,
whose Book of the Damned (1919) was at least 25 years before any
other postmodern writer. Fort was the first writer to
deconstruct science, for example, although he did not call it
deconstruction. The Postmodernist Brenda Denzler has quite
rightly has brought the exellent books of Latour and Woolgar
(Laboratory Life), Karen Cetina (The Manufacture of Knowledge),
and Stephen Toulmin's Cosmopolis. When Ufology starts to generat
books of this standard it can begin to raise its old-fashioned
head and get somewhere. The negative attitudes towards
Postmodernism I have encountered on this List have all been an
expression of prejudice and not a little ignorance,
misinterpretation, and quite frankly, cultural fear, and not a
few mistakes. The abuse I have received has been very amusing,
and I have returned it in good measure, with a lot of fun all
round. I shall continue to be the Bad Man in this respect. I am
disappointed to see Mr. Eric Jacobson brings out the old saws
concerning the theorem of Pythagoras and Newton's concept of
conservation of momentum. Pythagoras does indeed apply to
Euclidean plane geometry, but a number of mathematicians and
physicists in the late 19th century (such as Reimann, Minkowski
and Einstein) showed that there are many other geometries
possibly other than that of Euclid, geometries in which
Pythagoras does not apply. In the simplest sense, the laws of
Pythagoras could not possibly apply to a triangle drawn on a
curved surface, the models of the "new" space and time all being
modeled on such curved surfaces (and enfolded) worlds in which
there is no such thing as a straight line. In a simpler sense,
Pythagoras does not apply to a triangle that does not contain a
right angle, and neither does it apply if one side of the
triangle is represented by the square root of a minus number.

Therefore Mr Jacobson's argument putting Pythagoras forward as a
general law is somewhat flawed. The principle applies to a very
narrow range of highly specialised conditions, and the answers
are approximate. What I ask, are we to make of the "length" of
hypotenuse if the other two sides consist of pi and an infinite
series, never mind in the of all three sides consisting of an
infinite series!

As regards momentum, Relativity deconstructed it along with
Euclid and Newton both. Einsteinian space-time corrections are
now applied frequently to super-macrocosmic conditions
(planetary distances, and even the length of extremely long
bridges) and of course the microcosmic world of elementary
particles. This we have a world not of accuracies, certainties
or facts, but a world of constant re-adjustment of continuously-
  developed approximations. These approximations themselves
become transient scientific consumer items whilst the central
mysteries within the ultimate of momentum and magnetism and
gravity remain ineffable. What postmodernism points out is that
we do not solve anything at all so much as engineer out way
around the problem with cultural scaffolding.

Dick of course always argues in terms of the gross macrocosm,
where such approximations are hidden. Certainly, I cannot avoid
momentum (whatever it is!), or float through a barn door with
Postmodernism or anything else. But as Postmodernism points out,
both the barn door and concepts such as momentum are always
crumbling at the edges. They are always changing into something
else. They are both auto-deconstructing themselves. Both the
barn door and momentum are journeys in cultural time, although
they may not look or feel like it.

Seeing things in this way, Postmodernism is not the difficult
philosophy that some think it is. It provides a means (in many
ways like poetry indeed) of accessing the live images within
Dick's much-vaunted "solid" constructs. When we change the
framework of reference in which we see a thing, we change our
relationship with the world. When we change the world, we change
ourselves. Hence, as with poetry and the arts in general, a
relationship (or what Jung called a participation mystique), is
possible between Mind and Nature, personality and circumstance,
destiny and ambition, character and motivation. Such
metaphysical conceits are what constitute an individual's
identity, which is the most precious thing a human being can
possess. Morally speaking, objectivity is nonsense. A man who
has fallen in life might indeed be a moral genius. Objectively,
he is a loser.

Of course my nose is painful because it banged into the barn
door. Momentarily I am convinced in my pain that the world is a
meaningless cruel place consisting of nothing but objectively
painful experiences flying about random. But we can defeat pain.
We can reconstruct ourselves. We can beat the barn door. If one
person survived the concentration camps, then the concentration
camps can be defeated. A scornful woman says to a character in
D.H. Lawrence's novel, Women in Love, pointing to a high
mountain: Are you bigger than that mountain? Yes, I am bigger
than that mountain. Why? How? Because I am a human being.

That he cannot lift the mountain is irrelevant to almost
anything. Human beings are special. They are special because
they are moral creatures, and morality, like the mystical
experience of religion, is subjective. It is extremely difficult
to bring moral concepts into law courts or laboratories. With
objectivity there is no connection between the individual self
and a squealing rabbit in agony in some experimental laboratory
of a science that advertises itself as "ethical". I am surprised
that Dick does not turn his moral outrage against scientists
rather than postmodernists, who as far as I know have never
harmed anyone. He should consider  that his beloved objectivity
is a cultural screen that tries to show that a shopping crowd in
a mall are not doing some nasty thing to the rabbit as well as
the evil bastard in the white coat with his (or her) everlasting
needles in the name of "progress". Thus objectivity screens out
all collective moral responsibility. With objectivity you get
out of this moral responsibility in torturing an animal for the
sake of "knowledge" or one of science's infamous "breakthroughs"
"advances" or equally suspicious "benefits to mankind", most of
which all turn out to disastrous bullcrap. It is not the
Postmodernists you should blame for the present state of the
world Dick, but your beloved scientists!

Thus objectivity destroys the participation mystique between the
community and the event, replaces the I-thou relationship with
the myself-it relationship, and the tortured rabbit is the
result is losing a vital contact between Mind and Nature, and
science and morality. Objectivity will never reveal that the
guilt for the Holocaust was (and is) collective.

Events themselves as clusters of information are a language,
they have personality, a face, and multiple agendas. If events
are regarded as objective, the whole subtle process of human
cognition fails, and teeth are broken on the concrete. If we
forget that it is ourselves who doing nasty things to the
rabbit, humanity is doomed. If we accept it, then recognition
means that a healing is possible. I do not use the word healing
in the religious sense, but in the sense of a metaphysical
reconstruction of a relationship with animal life and Nature
that we are in danger of losing.

Unfortunately for Dick's argument again, life and experience
consists of anything and everything far less substantial and far
more unstable than concrete barn doors and concentration camps
which are things we encounter only rarely, if at all. Most of
our life consists of absorbing and developing and processing
images from many sources, a processing in which enclosed finite
"facts" play a rapidly diminishing part. Thanks to electronic
media, within a few generations the entire world has been wired
up to make one huge doll's house full of media and
entertainment. All the world now lives inside the head of some
entertainer or other, whether they like it or not. Mechanism in
the old sense of input-output bears no relation to this world
and how it operates. A cleverly engineered almost costless media
input can make an output out of all proportion to its original
constituent. In this sense, entertainment is advertising
fission. Mass suggestion through image-absorption can create
chain reactions of mood, tastes, feeling and association
discoveries, all linked to advertising, imagery, glamour. Our
metaphors are derived from staging, acting, and  performing.
There is no OFF switch. I personally have never ever seen TV in
my life, yet I know about the programmes, the series, the
characters through merely passing shop windows and hearing
unavoidable chatter about such things.

Thus this world no longer obeys any law of objective mechanical
causation. You needn't have a TV to be a viewer. Ours is a world
of constant commercial breaks, low concentration, low
intelligence levels, and vast fantasies, both national and
individual. Old hard policies are now public relations exercises
involving imagery and propaganda. This situation is hardly
described by the laws of conventional social change in which the
traditional threads of economic, politic and psychological
influences can be clearly seen. This situation only lends itself
to the laws of media, and the laws of media are postmodern laws.

But to out purpose. Postmodern Ufology (I call it the New
Ufology) accepts say, the (radar/visual) element as only one
information vector within the extended body of the UFO
experience. But as Mac Tonnies has shown, the postmodern view
sees a long scaling between the radar/visual case and the alien
face on a pack of chewing gum, with the investigator as part of
the process of scaling. Quite other vectors may exist within
this extended body. This is called the holistic view. For half a
century the UFO as an image has been steadily invading the main
body of our culture. Yet it does not seem to have occurred to
the objective investigators that this steadily increasing body
of image-influence is yet another vector alongside the
mechanical vector they so eagerly investigate and far too
readily equate to the total "reality" of the UFO manifestation.

Thus the body of the alien presence may be much more complex
than we have realized up to now. It may consist of many shades
of being, from an image on junior's puffer-train to the utterly
fantastic events of the Linda Cortile case. I have pleaded on
this List for a reconsideration of our very simple-minded view
of what contact with an "advanced" intelligence (or a number of
very different ones simultaneously) might be like. Instead of
the WASP image of a worthy bourgeois doing very recognizable
bourgeois things, we might well meet a very advanced form of
levels of play. In my opinion, this is what such people as
Adamski and Corso met up with, and they both became confused
when dealing with entities that played confusion games with them
with just about as much respect as regards their dignity and
welfare as we had for black African slaves of 1800. Just read
about what cargo-cults did with old black-and-white images of
Garry Cooper, bits of crashed aeroplanes and tins of Spam, and
we have just about got it right as concerns what is probably
happening to us at this very moment in time.

That we might just be getting the alien equivalent of black-and-
white images of Garry Cooper, bits of crashed aeroplanes and
tins of Spam, is something the objectivists might not recognise
or like. They would want something worthy indeed something like
themselves. That they might get bits from an ancient rubbish
dump sprinkled with a few partially-working god-games is a
daunting almost SF thought. That the different levels may have
outgrown mechanical science long ago is a thought even more
daunting. That our cultural Petri dish might be full of
suggestion- protein  in terms of advertisements and commercials
in which forms of living intelligence recreate themselves is a
daunting thought yet again.

Alien forms may have already gone from the molecular stage to
tissues of viral information, they may be capable of mimicking
elements of the concrete world, such as possibly the MJ 12
phenomenon. In that case, contact may turn out to be nothing
like our wildest dreams suspected, and be absolutely nothing to
do with the terms "extraterrestrial" at all, although they may
keep that as another card in their obfuscation pack. Frankly, I
think aliens will turn out to be just as devious and
untrustworthy as ourselves. In other words, I myself think that
if something steps out from the ramp of a landed UFO, it will be
part of an almost inconceivable deception, the kind we have
practiced in turn on others "beneath" us.

Postmodernism is ready to accept and analyse these science-
  fiction suggestions of versions of the future. It is not an old
fashioned rejection/accept fact/fiction two-state binary binary
philosophy based on mechanical objectivity. We are now moving
into a very strange world in which degrees of virtuality will be
the key. Postmodernism recognizes that any "investigating" group
is a piece of unadulturated media trying to measure media by
media. In my coming series of post on postmodernism from the
very beginning I want also to demonstrate that the fantastic
claim or deviant (such as that of Corso) act is a part of the
UFO experience. I wish to show that such things are not
extraneous noise to be filtered away, but are defining vectors
within the UFO experience-set.

I believe that postmodernism can make a great contribution to
traditional Ufology, work alongside traditional methods of
approach, and create fresh interpretations, the new alongside
the old. We need a new generation of holistic postmodern
thinkers and new young minds introduced into Ufology. There will
be opposition from the Mechanised Old Guard of course, but that
has not changed since the days of Socrates.

Perhaps Mr. Velez will now consider the inclusion of a
postmodern thinker in his suggested investigative team for
Kecksburg investigation. Might I suggest our very own List Bear,
Mac Tonnies? I am sure that Listers now somewhat more free of
postmodern prejudice would welcome such a twin investigation
that might function rather like a digital/analogue interface. I
would put myself forward, but that would probably bring on a
boot and fist attack from Mr. Velez, and he is much bigger than
I am.

As the Senior Citizens set sail for Kecksberg, this could be the
greatest voyage since the Owl and the Pussy cat set sail in
their pea-green boat. I myself shall be watching this attempted
measurement of the Real very carefully. I won't be satisfied
with approximations, counterfeit versions of the real, or
pseudo- versions, although I expect them to pour forth as a
golden stream in a drunk's dream of Las Vegas. Neither do I want
imperfections, imitations, dilutions, or mimicry or reflections
of the Real. Also, shadows, versions, or  borrowings or
lendings, or promises of the Real will not be accepted. But
above all I do not want any backsliding.

To conclude, here are my requirements for Senior Citizen's
Investigating Group group to satisfy me that it is truly
objective. They must all be certain to divest themselves of:
Personality, power, prestige; all opinions, class
identification, professional attitudes, and political
tendencies; no prejudice, pre-conceived opinions; no intuitions,
or good guesses must be involved; the investigating group must
demolish all personal angst, all dreams and ambitions, all
nostalgia mysterioux, all terror of the irrational; they must
make sure all their responses, judgments and definitions are
neither ameliorated, episodic nor curtailed, forsooth; there
must be no abbreviations, foreshortenings, scaling down of
concept, or compromises in thought, actions, decisions or
procedures; verily, they must cast out all productions,
projections, simulations, or acting out of the Real.

But why do I say these things? Because Wendy, Dick, and Stan and
Jan (I know you all watch this banned channel in locked toilets,
and under sheets by torchlight), I want the real you!

Of course the Senior Citizens will do none of these thing if
only because getting rid of such characteristics would what
Harold MacMillan called local difficulties. What to do? Well
Citizens, then go ahead and investigate, and we (I use Dick's
royal plural) will no doubt applaud.

But just don't call the investigation objective!

But now to barn door matters. Folks, with casual remarks like
"war next week" around me, I am going out now to check the
barricades, my gas mask, and await the living Postmodern theatre
of the Great British Disaster Scenario which is rehearsing in
London next week. All the Fallen and Walking Wounded from the
house of the Bad Man are getting ten pounds a day to act as
pavement corpses, victims of Alla's (who he?) coming revenge
(for what?), which is as bad they say as the revenge of
Montezuma. The Seething Elmon (my manservant) is going to be a
smallpox casualty near death (he doesn't need any makeup), and
the rest of my household are playing plague and Anthrax victims,
and they won't have much trouble doing that, I can tell you,
especially the lying about and doing nothing bit.

This day could be intense. Imagine if the virtual vectors got
interwoven with the acting corpses indistinguishable from my
household. You can't get more postmodern than that.

I'm going out now to take newly acquired (officially disarmed)
Taliban servants to the Social Security Bunker (Welfare Office
for all you Sons and Daughters of the 1776 Revolution).
Apparently something has gone wrong with their Reality claim.
Dick would be delighted at that, but he would not be delighted
with the situation I shall be faced with if they all start
praying together on the bunker floor!

I'll be back

Colin (Bad Man) Bennett

(the original rococo pedant -- don't trust other brands)

***************************************

"If Thomas Pynchon had any interest in Charles Fort, then
Politics of the Imagination is the kind of book that might
result. It's far more than a biography (Damon Knight already did
that), but a literary study of Fort the writer, as well as a
postmodern rant on the illusory nature of facts and reality in
the light of Fort's philosophy. Bennett, like Fort, sees
"explanations," especially those provided by science, as a
superficial means of understanding. Even more than in his
previous book, Looking for Orthon, Bennett does battle with
modern skepticism, which he sees as a debilitating contemporary
illness. This is a great, big, heady stew of a book full of
references to literature, arts, philosophy and more_much, much
more. Bennett takes Fort and runs for the goalposts - I don't
think anyone else could have done him justice. T his book is a
monster, a raised fist at the orthodox prison of the mind that
is contemporary culture."

Patrick Huyghe, the Anomalist







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                        Re: Postmodernism - Dabrowski

From: Andrew Dabrowski <dabrowsa@indiana.edu>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 15:59:22 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 22:40:45 -0500
Subject: Re: Postmodernism - Dabrowski


 >From: Andrew Dabrowski <dabrowsa@indiana.edu>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 14:58:36 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Postmodernism

 >>From: Brenda Denzler <bdenzler1@email.msn.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 09:10:41 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Postmodernism

I apologize for my tone in my last message. I was in a hurry
and had missed my Prozac for several days running. Sorry.



----------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew Dabrowski    |     Lueckenlos ist die Welt, doch
SE 117   5-5470   | zusammengehalten ... von den
Verschwundenen.
dabrowsa@indiana.edu  | Sie sind ueberall.
-Enzensberger






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                         Re: Postmodernism - Denzler

From: Brenda Denzler <bdenzler1@email.msn.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 19:03:24 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 22:43:29 -0500
Subject: Re: Postmodernism - Denzler


 >From: Andrew Dabrowski <dabrowsa@indiana.edu>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 14:58:36 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Postmodernism

 >>From: Brenda Denzler <bdenzler1@email.msn.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 09:10:41 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Postmodernism

 >>>From: Andrew Dabrowski <dabrowsa@indiana.edu>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 16:45:21 -0500
 >>>Subject: Re: Postmodernism

If my friends could see me now, trying to serve as a voice
explaining the postmodern worldview -- they would laugh
uproariously at the implausibility of it all!

 >><snip>

 >>>What irks me about pomo is that it's often simply another way of
 >>>brushing uncertainty under the rug:

 >>Au contraire. What "pomo" is all about is bringing uncertainty
 >>out from under the rug where empiricism wants to banish it (if
 >>it can't defeat it, first).

 >I grant that pomo does, briefly, bring uncertainty out from
 >under the rug, but only to immediately banish it by declaring
 >all sides equally right. Uncertainty is when either A or not A
 >might be true, and you don't know which. Pomos believe that A
 >and not A are both true. That is not uncertainty, that is
 >shirking the real difficulties that uncertainty presents: doubt.

It's only shirking if you really think that the question demands
an answer. Pomo looks, instead, at what drove the question to
even be asked in the first place and looks (or tries to look) at
the ways in which human perceptual abilities, thinking styles,
social conditions, etc., etc., etc. contribute to the framing of
the question as well as contribute to the answers that are
produced as people attempt to answer the question.

 >>Not only is this galling to empiricism -- to have these
 >>uncertainties flaunted as if they might *mean* something --,
 >>everything is made worse by the fact that pomo then turns around
 >>and says, "Not only these swept-under things exist, but the
 >>uncertainties you say you HAVE defeated are not really all that
 >>defeated, after all." Now *that* assertion does not just gall
 >>empiricism, but inflames it.
 >
 >I haven't seen any good case that pomo has made against science.

One person's "good case" is another person's "not a good case."
As the history of ufology clearly demonstrates.

And, as I understand it, pomo is not anti-science. It is anti-
  science-as-the-ultimate-arbiter-of-truth-and-ultimate-system-
  of- thought-and-practice-for-knowing-things. I don't think
pomo, or a lot of folks who promote it, anyway, would reject
science. Only science's pretensions to ultimacy.

 >>Pomo is, in a sense, a celebration of the uncertainties. Some-
 >>times a grudging but good-humored celebration; other times a
 >>downright raucous veritable Mardi Gras of a celebration. IMHO,
 >>it is in the latter situation that post-modernspeak lives -- in
 >>that kind of inebriated, scarcely-intelligible revelry. It is in
 >>that spirit that Sokal did his brilliant sting.
 >
 >Are you actually citing Alan Sokal's "sting" as positive example
 >of pomo at work? Sokal showed pomo up for the fraud it is by
 >submitting an intentionally vacuus paper to Social Text, where
 >it was accepted. Thus proving that even pomo's own journal
 >editors can't tell the difference between sense and nonsense.
 >See e.g:

 >http://dannyreviews.com/h/Intellectual_Impostures.html

 >If you're able to twist that into an endorsement of pomo then
 >you're capable of anything.

Read what I wrote more closely. I said that pomo has (at least)
two faces -- one of which is a bit more sober and plain-spoken,
the other of which is rather "raucous". Sokal's paper was
written *in the spirit of* the raucous face of pomo -- a
brilliant rendition of it. It's a face of pomo that I, myself,
find not very appealing, and I thought Sokal's piece was a nifty
jab at it.

Brenda






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                    'And a Little Child Shall Lead Them'

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 19:29:30 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 22:46:39 -0500
Subject: 'And a Little Child Shall Lead Them'


Here's the text of an e-mail exchange I've just concluded with a
student at Walt Whitman High School in Bethesda, Md.:

TO: Mr. Bryant: I am currently writing a feature piece on Steve
Bassett for my high school newspaper, the "Black & White," which
just received an award as one of the top five student
publications in the country. Mr. Bassett gave me your e-mail
address and said you might be willing to answer a few questions
about him and your work. I'd very much appreciate it if you
could answer any of the following questions that relate to your
experience with Mr. Bassett. Also, if you could please give your
full name and job title it would be very helpful. Thanks.

(1) What's the nature of your relationship with Mr. Bassett? Did
you work together, etc.?

LWB: We're colleagues in the worldwide, grassroots quest for
fully open and accountable government operations - particularly
as regards UFO-E.T. reality. During his run for Congress last
summer, I got to know him quite well; never have I met a more
committed citizen to a worthy cause. Had you been able to sign
his nominating petition and gone on to vote for him, you
would've received what I've labeled "a man with a mission, and a
mission with a man!"

(2) Do you believe, as Bassett argues, that the government has
concealed the existence of life from space?

LWB: I of course prefer to confine the term "believe" to such
questions as, e.g., do I "believe" the sun will rise tomorrow
morning? Otherwise, I do ACCEPT the available evidence that some
UFO-encounter reports represent hardware from elsewhere. Some of
that evidence consists of formerly concealed government
documentation (and of some more material (plus materiel) still
being withheld from public view, as admitted/hinted at by
various intelligence/law-enforcement agencies in response to
freedom-of-information probes into the inner sanctum of official
UFOlogy).

(3) What is the status of the "disclosure" movement?

LWB: For additional disclosure to occur (or to get closer to
occurring officially), we need more funding of private UFO
researchers and activists - so as to press on with educating
the mass news media, the Congress, academia, and the general
public. The citizens-driven disclosure process also needs to
have more UFO-coverup whistleblowers to come forward with
further (hard) evidence of governmental oversecrecy, abuse of
authority, and other malfeasance/nonfeasance in the politics of
UFOlogy.

(4) Do you believe there is a government conspiracy?

LWB: Well, I certainly presume that our own UFO-aware officials
"believe" there's a conspiracy to hide their UFO- related
activity/records from full public view. Getting them to face up
to (or to be caught red-handed in) that reality is the hard part
of achieving full, immediate, unqualified disclosure of what the
government knows (and when it knew it) about UFO- E.T. reality.

(5) Is X-PPAC effective as a political force? Have they changed
minds on the Hill or in the public?

LWB: It WANTS to be effective, of course; but this game
of UFO hide-and-seek is so belabored via the taboo factor of the
subject matter that it will be a long time before any
conventional politician dare touch it in public.

(6) What has X-PPAC accomplished?

LWB: It has helped raise UFO-E.T. awareness, and the issues
surrounding it, in the hearts and minds of John/Jane Q. Public;
and it serves as an ideological launch pad for further activism
in this 6-decades-long paper chase.

(7) How will revealing the existence of alien life impact
humanity? Will aliens contact us? How will humans and aliens
interact, or how have they interacted in the past?

LWB: How much time do you have here to entertain my answer?
Suffice it to say that the worldwide UFO-E.T. presence offers
mankind a chance to evolve at a faster rate than now were we to
be apprised, officially, that we have sapient neighbors in the
universe who may or may not have our best interests at heart.

CONCLUSION: Thank you very much for your time. It would be a
great help if you could answer before Sunday at the latest,
because I'm running into my deadline.








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                         Re: Postmodernism - Denzler

From: Brenda Denzler <bdenzler1@email.msn.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 19:14:22 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 22:48:07 -0500
Subject: Re: Postmodernism - Denzler


 >From: Andrew Dabrowski <dabrowsa@indiana.edu>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 23:05:22 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Postmodernism

 >>From: George Hansen <gphansen2001@yahoo.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 11:18:11 -0800 (PST)
 >>Subject: Re: Postmodernism

 >>>From: Brenda Denzler <bdenzler1@email.msn.com>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 09:10:41 -0500
 >>>Subject: Re: Postmodernism - Denzler
 >>>From: Andrew Dabrowski <dabrowsa@indiana.edu>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto<ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 16:45:21 -0500
 >>>Subject: Re: Postmodernism

 >>Brenda Denzler explains --
 >>"Pomo is, in a sense, a celebration of the uncertainties. Some-
 >>times a grudging but good-humored celebration; other times a
 >>downright raucous veritable Mardi Gras of a celebration."
 >>Such raucous celebrations are examples of liminal conditions.
 >>Denzler's metaphor here is entirely in keeping with
 >>anthropological concepts of liminality. Ambiguity is a prime
 >>characteristic of such conditions.

 >>Denzler reports--
 >>"What "pomo" is all about is bringing uncertainty out
 >>from under the rug"
 >>This is correct, and it's about time that ufologists explicitly
 >>recognize this to be inherent in UFO phenomena.

 >That's fine as far it goes, but you also seem to advocate giving
 >up trying to ever actually resolve any of these uncertainties.
 >That's what I object to.


Can't speak for George, but I myself would not advocate giving
up at all - only proceeding with a bit more humility and humor.


Brenda







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                           UFOs Over Iraq In 1991?

From: David Thomson <dave@volantis.org>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 18:20:52 -0600
Fwd Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 22:49:58 -0500
Subject: UFOs Over Iraq In 1991?


Does anyone on this List recall the photo of 7 triangular UFOs
reported by the Iraqis near the end of January 1991? I wonder if
we'll see photos of these triangular craft during this war?

Just for the record, I have personally witnessed the exact same
vehicle photographed by the Iraqis while traveling near EAF near
Bakersfield, California in 1978.

If someone has a record of the photo of seven triangular UFOs,
which appeared on the front of nearly every newspaper in the US
in late January or early February of 1991, I would like to get a
copy of it.


Dave







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                         Re: Postmodernism - Denzler

From: Brenda Denzler <bdenzler1@email.msn.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 19:25:01 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 22:52:24 -0500
Subject: Re: Postmodernism - Denzler


 >From: Colin Bennett <sharkley1@panzerben1.fsworld.co.uk>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>>
 >Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 13:32:57 -0000
 >Subject: Re: Postmodernism

 >The Postmodernist Brenda Denzler

ROTFLMAO! This settles it! I _have_ to send this post to a few
of my old professors who were frankly dis-appointed with me
because I wasn't sufficiently "avant garde" with my theory while
I was in grad school.

I have to confess to having some sympathy for a lot of what
postmodernists say, but had never considered myself one. Many
thanks, Colin!


Brenda
Still grinning from ear to ear







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             Re: Speaking Of Congressional (Non-)Intervention -

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 19:37:33 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 22:53:55 -0500
Subject: Re: Speaking Of Congressional (Non-)Intervention -


 >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 01:09:40 EST
 >Subject: Re: Speaking Of Congressional (Non-)Intervention

<snip>

 >Steve, Larry, Listers,

 >I suspect that the general public of the United States has
 >reached a point that the only thing on their radar scope is
 >Iraq, Iraq, Iraq, by the way North Korea, North Korea, and
 >possibly Iran.

 >So if the American public is lasered on Iraq, guess what
 >Congress is focused on and will be until the war ends? Yup,
 >Iraq. Mix into this any terror attacks in the UK or US after the
 >war begins on Iraq and that will further grab public attention.

<snip>

 >Point to all of this is its probably a waste of time and
 >resources to chase Congressional hearings until the mess over
 >seas settles down to "normal."

Robert,

That's exactly the point. Congress won't focus on it until the
general public requires it of them, and I'm afraid that's going
to take a major "flap" of some sort to get their attention.

Congress is always going to have some crisis to deal with, and
trying to get them focused on lights in the sky will be
difficult at best. At some point the question of inappropriate
military behavior or secrecy might provide a few interesting
pieces of information, but even that's going to be difficult to
utilize to any advantage in this quest.

Steve







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                         Re: Postmodernism - Connors

From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 18:25:00 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 22:55:26 -0500
Subject: Re: Postmodernism - Connors


 >From: Colin Bennett <sharkley1@panzerben1.fsworld.co.uk>
 >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 13:32:57 -0000
 >Subject: Re: Postmodernism - Bennett

<snip>

What a crock of crappola and waste of life.

Wendy Connors
So there ya have it, but whadda ya got?







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                          Re: Postmodernism - Gates

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 01:20:08 EST
Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 09:24:30 -0500
Subject: Re: Postmodernism - Gates


 >From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 18:25:00 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Postmodernism

 >>From: Colin Bennett <sharkley1@panzerben1.fsworld.co.uk>
 >>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 13:32:57 -0000
 >>Subject: Re: Postmodernism - Bennett

 ><snip>

 >What a crock of crappola and waste of life.


Wendy,

Speaking about crocks of crappola, a secret source on the inside
leaked me a copy of the "Corso's Greatest Hits" soundtrack... a
collection of one hit wonders from the great one himself.:) On
that album we have:

In The Mine With ET... (with the Grey chorus)
Fly Me In Your Time Machine (with Crash Landing and the Nazi's)
J Edgar And Me (With The Black Bags)
I Worked For Ike (With The Secret Agent Chorus)
and lastly, one of the greater hits of all time
I See Dead ET (With Flunky And The Stiffs)

:)

Hmm, sorry about the retro trip into bull land but I couldn't
resist.

Cheers,

Robert









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   Mar > Mar 11

                        Re: Post-Modernism - Oplatka

From: Laurel Oplatka <calabash2003@webtv.net>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 00:06:46 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 09:27:24 -0500
Subject: Re: Post-Modernism - Oplatka


Greetings, Listers:

I propose kudos is due Colin Bennett for his latest very
educative, far-reaching, brilliant and humanizing Post-Modern
installment! I find his literary references to be most helpful
and invigorating (unlike his detractors who view them (terribly
wrong-headedly) as hifalutin irrelevancies.

I laud the courage of Colin and other Modernist Listers who are
trying to expand the cloistered views of strict determinism. In
"The Politics of the Imagination" Colin expresses this
wonderfully apropos thought: "It takes alot of intellectual
courage to confront a painful and messy chaos, as distinct from
trusting to formula, finite destiny, and fixed definable
deterministic purpose."

In Colin's discussion of a holistic UFO approach he mentions
(re: the observation of Mac Tonnies) a PM view which "sees a
long scaling between the radar/vision case and the alien face on
a pack of chewing gum......" Yes, I too, like to ponder/consider
the "alien invasion into pop culture" aspect, and I am noticing
more and more of this 'image' trend here in Los Angeles. Last
month, while driving down a particularly busy street, I saw
looming large a billboard ad for breath mints, displaying images
of mints sporting spindly arms/legs and Streiberized grey alien
facial features. The ad copy read: "Attack of the Little Green
Mints". And on the radio station K-Earth 101, in between songs,
one of the announcers has been playing the Spielberg Close
Encounters tone-notes, after which he issues dramatically the
invitation, "Aliens, come on down!" This sequence is repeated
many times a day. Now, in three or four stores here, an alien
"doll" is being sold (looks kind of like the AA entity); the box
in which it comes is labeled 'Alien Model - Roswell Type' .
Heretofore I'd thought these were sold exclusively in New
Mexico. Probably Listers have seen/heard other new 'signs' and
images UFO/Alien-related, yes?

The following, I think, interfaces well with Colin's mind-
stimulating Post:

"Useful as it is under everyday circumstances to say that the
world exists 'out there' independent of us, that view can no
longer be upheld. There is a strange sense in which this is a
'participatory' universe."

    - John Wheeler, Nobel Prize-winning theoretical physicist


Best Regards,

Laurel







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   Mar > Mar 11

                        Re: Postmodernism - Dabrowski

From: Andrew Dabrowski <dabrowsa@indiana.edu>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 03:13:41 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 09:29:54 -0500
Subject: Re: Postmodernism - Dabrowski


 >From: Brenda Denzler <bdenzler1@email.msn.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 19:03:24 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Postmodernism

 >>From: Andrew Dabrowski <dabrowsa@indiana.edu>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 14:58:36 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Postmodernism

<snip>

 >>I grant that pomo does, briefly, bring uncertainty out from
 >>under the rug, but only to immediately banish it by declaring
 >>all sides equally right. Uncertainty is when either A or not A
 >>might be true, and you don't know which. Pomos believe that A
 >>and not A are both true. That is not uncertainty, that is
 >>shirking the real difficulties that uncertainty presents: doubt.
 >It's only shirking if you really think that the question demands
 >an answer.

Whether a particular question "demands" an answer is perhaps a
matter of taste. Would you say that physics and mathematics deal
with questions that don't "demand" an answer?

In your next message you said:

 >>>This is correct, and it's about time that ufologists explicitly
 >>>recognize this to be inherent in UFO phenomena.

 >>That's fine as far it goes, but you also seem to advocate giving
 >>up trying to ever actually resolve any of these uncertainties.
 >>That's what I object to.

 >Can't speak for George, but I myself would not advocate giving
 >up at all - only proceeding with a bit more humility and humor.

Does that mean that you feel that the question as to the nature
of UFOs does "demand" an answer?

 >Pomo looks, instead, at what drove the question to
 >even be asked in the first place and looks (or tries to look) at
 >the ways in which human perceptual abilities, thinking styles,
 >social conditions, etc., etc., etc. contribute to the framing of
 >the question as well as contribute to the answers that are
 >produced as people attempt to answer the question.

These are perfectly valid issues, both as sociology and critique
of bad science. But they don't in themselves raise doubt about
the existence of objective truth.

You've said you have great respect for empirical science, yet in
the following paragraph you seem to suggest that it is incapable
of ever resolving anything.

 >>>Not only is this galling to empiricism -- to have these
 >>>uncertainties flaunted as if they might *mean* something --,
 >>>everything is made worse by the fact that pomo then turns around
 >>>and says, "Not only these swept-under things exist, but the
 >>>uncertainties you say you HAVE defeated are not really all that
 >>>defeated, after all." Now *that* assertion does not just gall
 >>>empiricism, but inflames it.

 >>I haven't seen any good case that pomo has made against science.
 >One person's "good case" is another person's "not a good case."
 >As the history of ufology clearly demonstrates.
 >And, as I understand it, pomo is not anti-science. It is anti-
 >science-as-the-ultimate-arbiter-of-truth-and-ultimate-system-
 >of- thought-and-practice-for-knowing-things. I don't think
 >pomo, or a lot of folks who promote it, anyway, would reject
 >science. Only science's pretensions to ultimacy.

I don't think anyone on this List would say that science should
be the utimate arbiter on social issues; I don't think many
scientists feel that way. But as for being the arbiter of truth
on questions about the material world, it's the only game in
town. The sole ostensible purpose of science (emotional needs of
individual scientists aside) is to answer those questions; if
pomo denies its ability to do so it is certainly "anti-science".
What sense of "anti-science" did you have in mind?


Andrew Dabrowski





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   Mar > Mar 11

                        Re: Postmodernism - Dabrowski

From: Andrew Dabrowski <dabrowsa@indiana.edu>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 05:15:02 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 09:41:01 -0500
Subject: Re: Postmodernism - Dabrowski


 >From: Colin Bennettt <sharkley1@panzerben1.fsworld.co.uk>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>>
 >Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 13:32:57 -0000
 >Subject: Re: Postmodernism - Bennettt

<snip>

Mr Bennett can be a charming writer, but his talents are wasted
in this forum. I wish he would either settle down and write a
novel or forget about pomo entirely and just try to think for
himself. He has some good ideas. I find myself agreeing with
almost everything he says about popular culture and most of his
specific ideas about UFOs; I find myself disagreeing with almost
all of his pomo cant.

 >Postmodernism is a philosophy whose world-view is based on
 >single idea. That idea is that what we perceive as objective
 >fact is an advertising construct created by cultural gaming-
 >systems.

How do you deal with the well known paradox of pomo, i.e. if
there are no facts, just advertising, then pomo itself must be
just advertising?

 >But notwithstanding, Hamlet does finally take up the moral cause
 >and kills Claudius, because the moral law is higher than
 >intellectual law. Thus does Shakespeare solve the
 >objective/subjective dichotomy by stating that the only reality
 >that is truly objective is moral. Everything else is staging.
 >That does not mean that it is not tragic staging, as in Hamlet.
 >Dick Hall is grossly unfair to postmodernists when he accuses
 >them of not sharing his obvious moral outrage at the present
 >turn of events.

Why is morality immune from pomo's murk? Don't the same
arguments against objective facts apply as well against a
universal morality?

 >Postmodernism is nothing less than such a new view of mind and
 >matter. It sees facts not as Newtonian billard ball atoms, but
 >as streams of advertising, media, information-management, and
 >degrees of allowance rather than fact or fiction. In the opinion
 >of many, this view switched on the universal lights to reveal
 >the interiors of fact to be the interplay of structured of
 >pieces of manufactured cultural deception whose sole object is
 >to get agendas into the prime time of consciousness.

This sounds just a touch paranoid. Is the study of Newtonian
mechanics the first step on a slippery slope down to corporate
fascism?

 >The Postmodern analysis of fact as a procedure is called
 >Deconstruction, and in the opinion of many, Postmodernism is the
 >only philosophy that can begin to make sense of a Web and Media
 >age. Old industrial input-output factual examination cannot
 >analyse media, for example. It just does not work in a world
 >where images, not facts, are the ruling criteria. Postmodernism
 >sees media and information as a new form of life, strung between
 >absolute fact and absolute fiction, both of which are seen as
 >approximations, final only when summed to a theoretical
 >infinity. (end of definition)

I don't question pomo's competence to analyse "media"; I do
question its competence to critique science. By your definition,
pomo is almost entirely sociological. Since most of the people
on this list are interested, to one degree or another, in
science, there seems to be a mismatch.

 >Thus when Dick protests about the amorality of Postmodernism, I
 >refer him to the Shakespearian solution. Unfortunately since the
 >death of T.R. Henn of Cambridge many years ago, the Theory of
 >Tragedy is no longer taught in many university literary courses.
 >A study of Aristotle's Poetics or Longinus on the Sublime might
 >enlighten Dick on very relevant questions about the commitment
 >of philosophers to politics and resolve some of his obvious
 >doubts about philosophy and moral commitment.
 >In this debate the List is wonderful cultural theatre. When the
 >old Left (RIP) was still alive, I can remember exactly similar
 >arguments raging through the Balliol seminars about
 >Existentialism and political action and commitment as regards
 >Vietnam, for example. We now have the UFO and its framework of
 >reference. The only claim I will make in this area is that I
 >have had a UFO experience and Dick and the members of what John
 >Velez calls (blushingly!) the Senior group have not. They can
 >correct me if I am wrong, but matters have so deteriorated
 >between us such that we both refer to one another in the third
 >person that is if we refer to one another at all!
 >The abuse I have received has been very amusing,
 >and I have returned it in good measure, with a lot of fun all
 >round. I shall continue to be the Bad Man in this respect. I am
 >disappointed to see Mr. Eric Jacobson brings out the old saws
 >concerning the theorem of Pythagoras and Newton's concept of
 >conservation of momentum.

Mr. Jacobson deserves an apology, it was I who brought up
Pythagoras.

 >Pythagoras does indeed apply to
 >Euclidean plane geometry, but a number of mathematicians and
 >physicists in the late 19th century (such as Reimann, Minkowski
 >and Einstein) showed that there are many other geometries
 >possibly other than that of Euclid, geometries in which
 >Pythagoras does not apply. In the simplest sense, the laws of
 >Pythagoras could not possibly apply to a triangle drawn on a
 >curved surface, the models of the "new" space and time all being
 >modeled on such curved surfaces (and enfolded) worlds in which
 >there is no such thing as a straight line.

This is really irrelevant. In ordinary English "triangle" refers
to an object in the Euclidean 2D plane. If I said that cats like
mice would you feel the need to point out that lions prefer
wildebeest?

 >In a simpler sense,
 >Pythagoras does not apply to a triangle that does not contain a
 >right angle, and neither does it apply if one side of the
 >triangle is represented by the square root of a minus number.

Now you're really being silly. Part of a theorem is the
statement of the circumstances under which it applies.

 >Therefore Mr Jacobson's argument putting Pythagoras forward as a
 >general law is somewhat flawed. The principle applies to a very
 >narrow range of highly specialised conditions, and the answers
 >are approximate. What I ask, are we to make of the "length" of
 >hypotenuse if the other two sides consist of pi and an infinite
 >series, never mind in the of all three sides consisting of an
 >infinite series!

I think you're getting in over your head. Any number can be
expressed as an infinite series. There's nothing special about
infinite series.

 >As regards momentum, Relativity deconstructed it along with
 >Euclid and Newton both.

"Deconstructed" is here quite misleading. Certainly Einstein
never deconstructed anything in the way you defined
deconstruction above: turning a fact into a process (whatever
that might mean in this context).

Incidentally, it's cheeky of you to try to corral Einstein into
pomo. Einstein couldn't even accept quantum mechanics because he
didn't think God a craps player.

 >Einsteinian space-time corrections are
 >now applied frequently to super-macrocosmic conditions
 >(planetary distances, and even the length of extremely long
 >bridges) and of course the microcosmic world of elementary
 >particles. This we have a world not of accuracies, certainties
 >or facts, but a world of constant re-adjustment of continuously-
 >developed approximations.

Relativity is quite precise. It calls for no constant
readjustment or continuously developed approximations. Maybe
you're confusing relativity with quantum theory.

 >That he cannot lift the mountain is irrelevant to almost
 >anything. Human beings are special. They are special because
 >they are moral creatures, and morality, like the mystical
 >experience of religion, is subjective. It is extremely difficult
 >to bring moral concepts into law courts or laboratories. With
 >objectivity there is no connection between the individual self
 >and a squealing rabbit in agony in some experimental laboratory
 >of a science that advertises itself as "ethical". I am surprised
 >that Dick does not turn his moral outrage against scientists
 >rather than postmodernists, who as far as I know have never
 >harmed anyone. He should consider that his beloved objectivity
 >is a cultural screen that tries to show that a shopping crowd in
 >a mall are not doing some nasty thing to the rabbit as well as
 >the evil bastard in the white coat with his (or her) everlasting
 >needles in the name of "progress". Thus objectivity screens out
 >all collective moral responsibility. With objectivity you get
 >out of this moral responsibility in torturing an animal for the
 >sake of "knowledge" or one of science's infamous "breakthroughs"
 >"advances" or equally suspicious "benefits to mankind", most of
 >which all turn out to disastrous bullcrap. It is not the
 >Postmodernists you should blame for the present state of the
 >world Dick, but your beloved scientists!

You're getting a bit maudlin here, Mr. Bennett. Surely we can all
agree that torturing bunny rabbits is a Bad Thing. But how does
this throw doubt on the existence of objective scientific facts?

 >Thus objectivity destroys the participation mystique between the
 >community and the event, replaces the I-thou relationship with
 >the myself-it relationship, and the tortured rabbit is the
 >result is losing a vital contact between Mind and Nature, and
 >science and morality. Objectivity will never reveal that the
 >guilt for the Holocaust was (and is) collective.

Are you confusing categories? Just because we want Sweetness and
Light (morality) doesn't mean we can turn a Euclidean plane into
a sphere (science).

 >I personally have never ever seen TV in
 >my life, yet I know about the programmes, the series, the
 >characters through merely passing shop windows and hearing
 >unavoidable chatter about such things.
 >Thus this world no longer obeys any law of objective mechanical
 >causation.

"Any"?! That's quite a leap: from overhearing talk about TV
shows to the complete absence of mechanical causation. No wonder
you people get carried away with pomo: such a fabulous yield on
such a tiny investment of thought.

 >You needn't have a TV to be a viewer. Ours is a world
 >of constant commercial breaks, low concentration, low
 >intelligence levels, and vast fantasies, both national and
 >individual. Old hard policies are now public relations exercises
 >involving imagery and propaganda. This situation is hardly
 >described by the laws of conventional social change in which the
 >traditional threads of economic, politic and psychological
 >influences can be clearly seen. This situation only lends itself
 >to the laws of media, and the laws of media are postmodern laws.

Fine, go analyze media. It seems what really interests you is
the sociology of science (and UFOs). But there's no need to
confuse that with science itself.

 >Thus the body of the alien presence may be much more complex
 >than we have realized up to now. It may consist of many shades
 >of being, from an image on junior's puffer-train to the utterly
 >fantastic events of the Linda Cortile case. I have pleaded on
 >this List for a reconsideration of our very simple-minded view
 >of what contact with an "advanced" intelligence (or a number of
 >very different ones simultaneously) might be like. Instead of
 >the WASP image of a worthy bourgeois doing very recognizable
 >bourgeois things, we might well meet a very advanced form of
 >levels of play. In my opinion, this is what such people as
 >Adamski and Corso met up with, and they both became confused
 >when dealing with entities that played confusion games with them
 >with just about as much respect as regards their dignity and
 >welfare as we had for black African slaves of 1800. Just read
 >about what cargo-cults did with old black-and-white images of
 >Garry Cooper, bits of crashed aeroplanes and tins of Spam, and
 >we have just about got it right as concerns what is probably
 >happening to us at this very moment in time.

This is a fascinating idea; if you will write a novel about it I
will read it. But it seems a little dishonest of you to use a
clever SF storyline as cover for trying to smuggle Adamski and
Corso into respectability on this list. No such elaborate
hypothesis is necessary to explain their shenanigans. But it
might make an excellent novel. Why don't you get to work on it?

 >That we might just be getting the alien equivalent of black-and-
 >white images of Garry Cooper, bits of crashed aeroplanes and
 >tins of Spam, is something the objectivists might not recognise
 >or like. They would want something worthy indeed something like
 >themselves. That they might get bits from an ancient rubbish
 >dump sprinkled with a few partially-working god-games is a
 >daunting almost SF thought. That the different levels may have
 >outgrown mechanical science long ago is a thought even more
 >daunting. That our cultural Petri dish might be full of
 >suggestion- protein in terms of advertisements and commercials
 >in which forms of living intelligence recreate themselves is a
 >daunting thought yet again.

If I read you right you are suggesting that aliens may already
have such a pervasive grip on our popular media that resistance
is futile. Another fascinating premise for a novel, but it does
go back at least to Jacques Vallee. Who, I might add, was able
to expound it without ever mentioning pomo.

[Long burlesque on the impossibility of an objective
investigation into UFOs omitted.]

An objective investigation doesn't require that each individual
investigator be perfectly objective, only that the results be
acceptable to people with diverse prejudices.


Andrew Dabrowski









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   Mar > Mar 11

                         Re: Postmodernism - Denzler

From: Brenda Denzler <bdenzler1@email.msn.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 06:16:06 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 09:44:36 -0500
Subject: Re:  Postmodernism - Denzler


 >From: Andrew Dabrowski <dabrowsa@indiana.edu>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 15:59:22 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Postmodernism

 >>From: Andrew Dabrowski <dabrowsa@indiana.edu>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 14:58:36 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Postmodernism

 >>>From: Brenda Denzler <bdenzler1@email.msn.com>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 09:10:41 -0500
 >>>Subject: Re: Postmodernism

 >I apologize for my tone in my last message. I was in a hurry
 >and had missed my Prozac for several days running. Sorry.

For my part, Andrew, you have nothing to apologize for. Seemed
to me that we were having a good, intelligent discussion of
something, although we are on different sides of the issue (at
least in some regards). I never thought you were out of line.
Exasperated and irritated a bit, perhaps. But since when is
_that_ a punishable offense? Or, more appro- priately put, if
that's an punishable offense, God help *me*!

;)

Brenda Denzler







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   Mar > Mar 11

                         Forget The Little Green Men

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 09:53:07 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 09:53:07 -0500
Subject: Forget The Little Green Men

http://books.guardian.co.uk/lrb/articles/0,6109,911464,00.html

Forget The Little Green Men

Is there life in outer space? One thing's for sure, they
wouldn't look anything like us. James Hamilton-Paterson surveys
the latest from the search for extraterrestrial life in this
exclusive LRB essay


Monday March 10, 2003

Evolving the Alien: The Science of Extraterrestrial Life by Jack
Cohen and Ian Stewart Ebury, 369 pp., =A317.99, September 2002, 0
09 187927 2

XTL: Extraterrestrial Life and How to Find It by Simon Goodwin
and John Gribbin Weidenfeld, 191 pp., =A312.99, August 2002, 1
84188 193 7

In the middle of the 19th century the prevailing scientific view
of the abyssal ocean held that it was a vast body of water with
a uniform temperature of 4=B0C. With no variation of temperature
there could be no convection currents, hence no circulation of
dissolved oxygen and suspended food particles.

The abyss was stagnant, a body of water under massive pressure,
barely warmer than freezing and utterly without light. Thus,
reasoned the scientists (influenced, no doubt, by human
physiology and the Book of Genesis), it could not conceivably
support life. The Manx naturalist Edward Forbes coined the word
'azoic' to describe this self-evidently lifeless zone.

By the 1870s he and other oceanographers were eating their words
as improved sampling technology retrieved abundant evidence
that, in cheerful defiance of human preconceptions, even the
deepest abyss was teeming with life.

A cautionary tale, one might think, for scientists of the early
21st century engaged in planning space missions to find
extraterrestrial life. Expressly shunning an anthropic approach,
the authors of Evolving the Alien insist that the fledgling
science devoted to discovering extraterrestrial life-forms
should be known not as 'astrobiology' but as 'xenoscience'. They
are combative on this point, and so united that they frequently
refer to themselves as 'Jack&Ian'.

To this winsome dyad the notion of astrobiology is limiting in
that it stands for astronomy as seen from Earth plus Earth-style
biology, so that its thinking is governed by anthropic concerns
such as the search for 'habitable zones' elsewhere in our solar
system, just as we once looked in the oceans. Jack&Ian is
feistily scornful of 'habitable zone' thinking, partly because
he knows how life constantly confounds human expectations of
what is habitable and partly because he has in mind life-forms
quite unlike terran creatures, with properly alien chemistries
and biologies to match.

Most formative thinking about the genuinely alien has been done
by science fiction writers, and Cohen and Stewart provide their
own short SF story about how an unknown creature might perceive
a Nasa probe sent in the near future to Europa, a satellite of
Jupiter. (There are great hopes that life might be found in the
ocean that is believed to lie beneath its frozen surface.)

They also dot their text with plot summaries of thirty SF
classics in order to illustrate their scientific points. Part of
their task is to debunk popular misconceptions about what alien
life-forms might be like. They are merciless with
anthropomorphic nursery and cinematic imagery (ET and Star
Trek), the fallacies underlying the cod science of Jurassic Park
and the loony gospel of UFOs and alien abductions.

Since they start from a strictly Darwinian account of
terrestrial evolution they can assert that however alien life-
forms may turn out to look, there is virtually no possibility
that they will resemble Homo sapiens. We can forget humanoids
such as Mr Spock and the Klingons because Homo evolved under a
uniquely changing series of terran conditions. What is more,
even if evolution could be rerun, contingency would guarantee
that next time around it would not follow the same path.

Stephen Jay Gould's book Wonderful Life, about the fantastic
evolutionary dead-ends fossilised in Canada's Burgess Shale,
makes this point beautifully. We and other land vertebrates owe
our eyes-above-nose-above-mouth features and our awkwardly
intersecting windpipe-and-gullet arrangement to a lobe-finned
fish that happened to make it ashore. (The bad design of this
airway-cum-throat means that people occasionally choke to death,
but too infrequently for the feature to have been deselected by
evolution. A similar awkwardness can be seen in the bizarre mix-
up of our genital and excretory organs.)

It is crucial, so far as Cohen and Stewart are concerned, that
there is no satisfactory and generally agreed definition of what
life is - and therefore no way of being certain we would
recognise it in alien guise. They don't quote Nasa's current
tentative definition ('a self-sustained chemical system capable
of undergoing Darwinian evolution'), probably because they find
it possible to imagine conditions in which life-forms might not
replicate according to natural selection.

But they do quote Stuart Kauffman's definition, according to
which a life-form is any 'autonomous agent' that can reproduce
and carry out at least one thermodynamic work cycle. In other
words, it would have to be able to redirect energy so as to
'pump up' processes back to their starting point, and to pass
that ability on to copies of itself. Life could even be a
vacuum, which at a quantum level has more than enough complexity
to organise itself into an autonomous agent.

If a living vacuum seems an imaginative step too far, it is
worth considering what we understand as being 'alive'. The
bacteriophage known as T4 is a parasite of the bacterium E coli
that thrives in the human gut. It looks like a spacecraft with a
geometrical cabin perched on a vertical column, at the bottom of
which are six folding legs.

The phage has no organising brain whatever, not even a nucleus.
It is an entirely chemical robot that lands on the surface of E
coli, dissolves a hole in its host with enzymes and injects a
rope of DNA. The rope contains more than 150 genes that
immediately shut down most of the bacterium's functions, leaving
active only those that can set about replicating copies of T4
and its DNA. This entire, submicroscopic whirl of precise
activity involves nothing but blind chemical reactions.

Is T4 alive in any meaningful sense? The question will remain
unanswered until science has devised a theoretical, molecular-
level explanation that can say precisely when 'dead' chemicals
constitute a 'live' organism. Theology is hardly an issue, but
philosophy might enjoy adding its tithe.

Meanwhile, Cohen and Stewart describe how inanimate clays can
'organise' themselves and self-replicate (much as crystals grow
in saturated solutions). In the presence of the right catalyst,
simple chemicals can become complex and in turn autocatalytic:
one of the most persuasive of current explanations of how life
began on Earth. Such phenomena seem to tally with computer
simulations and experiments which have shown repeatedly that
systems have the ability to evolve themselves out of apparent
chaos.

This effectively debunks the assertion that 'life is too complex
to have arisen spontaneously,' and it now seems to be
established as a general principle that in the right conditions
simple chemistry becomes complex and can eventually organise
itself: become, effectively, alive. The 'live' polio virus, for
example, has recently been created from scratch using its
genetic sequence alone, although the process was extremely slow
and tedious.

The value of Cohen and Stewart's speculative, imaginative, even
fanciful approach is that it enables them to cover a lot of very
useful ground. At its best, it exposes flaws in popular thinking
and is painlessly educative about the present state of science
in matters including the pervasive misreading of evolution as
'succession' or 'progress'; Gaia; the possibility of building
Arthur C Clarke's space elevator; the alternatives to DNA/RNA-
based life.

They also examine the probable flaw in SETI, the Search for
Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence - this has been listening out for
radio messages for decades and is now a worldwide co-operative
effort using the downtime of thousands of personal computers.
Cohen and Stewart point out that our present radio and TV
transmissions employ coding that would have been quite
unintelligible to us only fifty years ago: we wouldn't even have
been able to distinguish a modern digital signal from background
white noise. SETI is maintained, nevertheless, in the hope that
we will receive transmissions we can recognise as such.

The account of SETI in XTL (a zippy acronym for Extra-
Terrestrial Life) is more technically detailed, and lacks
Jack&Ian's scepticism. But then, XTL is a very different book.
For a start, most of it is exclusively about astronomy. It
belongs, in fact, in the category of Jack&Ian's despised
astrobiology.

Unlike Jack&Ian, Simon Goodwin and John Gribbin are very keen on
habitable zones, drawing two concentric spheres of habitability
out from the Sun to mark the limits between which it might be
worth looking for life. After reading Evolving the Alien this
feels conservative, as well it might when one sees Goodwin and
Gribbin's diagram showing the life zone here on Earth stretching
just 25 km from below the seabed to the stratosphere.

I don't understand this. In the last decade live bacteria have
been found at a height of 41 km, where they evidently deal very
adequately with scorching ultraviolet radiation that would
swiftly do for us, and Archaeans (ancient bacteria-like
organisms) have been found alive and well in rocks 3 km
underground. This nearly doubles Goodwin and Gribbin's zone of
habitability, and further research will probably reveal it to be
even larger.

This impression of being slightly out of date may betray
lingering 'azoic' tendencies, possibly because Goodwin and
Gribbin are astronomers. But then they go on to examine which
planets in any system might fall into the habitable zone, ruling
out those whose orbits are close enough to a star to become
tidally locked, so that they always present the same face to the
star 'just like the Moon relative to the Earth or Mercury
relative to the Sun'.

What was that again? Mercury rotates once every 58.65 Earth
days, a fact that was revealed by Doppler radar observation in
1965 and made ruthlessly public - it's even in Patrick Moore's
1967 edition of The Observer's Book of Astronomy. XTL was
published as a hardback in 2001. Did nobody notice? It's not a
typo and Goodwin and Gribbin both have a PhD in astronomy.
Whatever the reason, the error inevitably casts something of a
penumbra over the rest of the book.

The last chapter, 'Searching for Civilisation', does deal with
several of the topics that Jack&Ian covers (such as SETI and the
Drake Equation for estimating the number of civilisations Out
There), but not in such discursive detail. The pictures are
nice, however.

The one thing these books share is a naive optimism. Both end
with confident speculations about technological breakthroughs
that will soon make space travel easy. It is theoretically
possible even now, although primitive and hopelessly time-
consuming; but soon? Theirs is a grand vision of the kind
unmoved by the spectacle of space shuttles breaking up on re-
entry.

This is how Jack&Ian ends Evolving the Alien: 'Will we find
alien life? Or is there a supervening reason for us to be the
only ones, ever, in the Great Adventure? Surely not. In less
than two hundred years, we will know.' Why two hundred years?
This is an authorial guesstimate based on Jack&Ian's conviction
that 'we' (though not I) will have discovered some sort of warp
drive by then that will set us Trekking around the nearer stars.
Here Jack&Ian's scepticism stops while mine goes galloping on.

For whatever reasons - age, the present threatening political
and environmental situations, or my having lately read John
Gray's highly unsanguine Straw Dogs - I cannot see why the
discovery of extraterrestrial life would any longer be such a
prodigious deal. Fascinating, certainly, but not miraculous; and
certainly not (in Goodwin and Gribbin's words) 'arguably... the
most profound discovery in the entire history of human
civilisation'. What, more than that of mayonnaise?

Many of us have long had no difficulty in assuming the
likelihood of life existing elsewhere in the universe. I take
their hyperbole to spring from an unconscious cultural
inheritance rooted in the biblically implied uniqueness of the
human race. In this same mood I can see that although SETI is
mediated by glittering technology, it is essentially a religious
activity. The plaintive human cry 'Is anybody out there?
Please?' has echoed down the millennia and now, borne on
inscribed tablets and radio waves, is heading out of our solar
system. Like any religion, SETI's hope of receiving an answer
requires belief and occupies thousands of waking hours, often
whole lives. And why not? Jack&Ian provides some pretty good
reasons why SETI is unlikely to turn up aliens, but who knows?

No matter how corrective Jack&Ian's science may be, it is hard
not to feel that a lot of this essentially optimistic
speculation is grandly inconsequential, even blatantly escapist.
It is easy to decry the way in which popular ideas of the alien
are constructed from nursery imagery and infantile fears, but
when Jack&Ian breathlessly invokes a phrase like 'Grand
Adventure' to signify humanity's blasting off into the unknown
he is obviously deaf to its echo of Peter Pan's mawkish
assertion that 'to die will be an awfully big adventure.' It is
also fine to throw out phrases like 'we will soon be able to
cross the gaps between stars'; but who is this 'we', and why the
implied immediacy, even urgency, of all this?

This is a category of rhetoric common to much popular science,
often self-parodied by the New Scientist in its shock-horror
headlines ('Crunch time soon?') referring to claims that the
universe will collapse within the next ten to twenty billion
years. 'Soon' is good, and so are the equally excitable stories
about the danger of our imminently falling victim to rogue
asteroids, black holes, wormholes in space-time and the rest.

We have reached a point where researches into the geological and
palaeontological past, as well as the astronomical future, are
yielding great quantities of data, much of it speculative but
some of it very detailed. The data are so readily retrieved and
downloaded, their popular presentation so vivid and present-
tense, it is as though they referred to last Tuesday or next
Thursday. Past and future have both been telescoped. Millions of
schoolchildren are so familiar with T rex that the animal is in
some sense alive still. Millions, too, regularly encounter
speculation about the newest theories of cosmology and
xenoscience - to say nothing of SF tales and virtual reality
games - and probably feel interstellar or multi-dimensional
travel are already pretty much fact, if only they knew where to
buy a ticket.

This is fine for our imaginative self. But for our fleeting
physical self locked in its photo-flash of a lifetime it is
irrelevant. There is no living T rex; there is no star travel.
Instead, the human race's very survival for even the next two
hundred years may well depend on its reluctantly dragging itself
away from exotic futures and addressing the disagreeable
realities of the now. Contrary to Jack&Ian's belief, technology
is not an entirely autocatalytic system. Scientific knowledge
itself might be unstoppable; but converting knowledge into
costly hardware usually intersects with dicey politics.

And that's without taking into account the social and political
consequences of currently metastasising technologies (especially
genetic and pharmacological ones) which, like it or not, have
already begun the process of re-engineering the human animal,
something that might be thought of more immediate concern to us
than the putative physiology of alien species.

In such a confrontation SF begins to look like a weapon of mass
distraction. Besides, only governments can hope to fund
fabulously expensive Big Science projects such as exploring the
planets and their satellites. At this moment the one nation
whose technical achievements have inspired so much cosmological
and SF dreaming looks like becoming bogged down for the
foreseeable future in managing its recalcitrant earthly empire;
nor can it ignore the human and PR costs of the inevitable
disasters that attend space exploration.

In any case there is surely a fallacy underlying Jack&Ian's
castigation of anthropocentric attitudes. On the off-chance that
humans do eventually encounter aliens (the most we can
realistically hope for in our own solar system is bacteria or
primitive aquatic organisms), those explorers will inevitably be
trying to grasp them with human minds. They can purge themselves
of all the cultural baggage they like, but their intelligences
will be irreducibly that of Homo sapiens.

The authors therefore seem merely to be saying that our
descendants will need to be maximally broadminded, both
scientifically and ethnologically. But that is no more than Star
Trek was saying thirty years ago, with a cast of middle-class
Californians doing their best to be enlightened - exactly the
terms on which Jack&Ian is dismissive about the series.

What of an alien viewpoint of our strange race? Both these books
mention the Fermi Paradox: why, if the galaxy is full of
advanced civilisations, are they not already here? I would refer
them to the words of Calvin in Bill Watterson's immortal strip
cartoon, Calvin and Hobbes: 'Sometimes I think the surest sign
that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that
none of it has tried to contact us.'

o James Hamilton-Paterson lives in Italy. His most recent novel,
Loving Monsters, is a Granta paperback.

o To read more online essays from the current edition of the
London Review of Books visit the LRB. The extensive online
archive of essays from the past includes Alan Bennett's Diary
and much more.


[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]







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   Mar > Mar 11

             Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 10:03:37 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 10:47:24 -0500
Subject: Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S


 >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: 8 Mar 2003 23:04:32 -0000
 >Subject: Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S


 >EBK, Listers,

 >I contacted Robert (AKA Thumper) and below you'll find his
 >reply. I plan to take him up on his offer; sounds intriguing to
 >me.

 >I have no expertise with cam recorders so can't offer him any
 >advice in that area. Maybe someone on the list might be
 >interested in lending a hand.

 >Ed

Thumper(?) wrote:

 >KEEP IN TOUCH ..yes they can be seen..send me a vcr tape and
 >self address,envelope ill make the copy and send it to you.. co
 >of robert mackey pobox 1524seward alaska 99664 also lots of
 >sightings up in this area of alaska..just got a460xdigital zoom
 >handy cam vision but its not that great at night filming its a
 >sony 8 mm hi 8 with night vision but at night we cant even film
 >stars in the sky any hints to what were doing wrong.and plus


Regarding the "night vision" cameras: it is my understanding
that these cameras use an infra-red beam to illuminate the scene
in front of the camera. The CCD imaging array is sensitive to
near IR (infra-red). Hence, if the IR is reflected by anything
it can be detected by the camera providing that the reflection
is bright enough. Every/Any camera is limited by the smallest
amount of visible or IR light it can detect. He says he can't
film stars in the sky. This implies that the camera is not very
sensitive. He would do better with a camera with the ability to
detect 1 lux or less. Black and White (not color) nighttime
surveillance cameras can produce pictures in light levels down
to 1/2 lux (or perhaps less). One can also obtain standard night
vision (not infrared) goggles or binoculars and optically couple
such a device to a video camera (this might require special
lenses). Another way to increase overall light sensitivity is to
increase the diameter of the "input optic", i,e. the input first
lens of the optical system. This can be done by attaching a
monocular (or half a binocular) to the front of the camera.

A 50 mm or 70 mm diameter input lens on the binocular could
multiply the light collecting power by a factor of 4 (or more).
Furthermore, one gets a telescopic effect from using a 6, 8, 10
(or whatever) power monocular/binocular.






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   Mar > Mar 11

                       The Ultimate Ufology Vacation!

From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 09:17:40 -0600 (CST)
Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 10:49:07 -0500
Subject: The Ultimate Ufology Vacation!



95-th Anniversary Of The Tunguska Event
Tunguska 2003 International Conference


http://olkhov.narod.ru/conf03.htm







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   Mar > Mar 11

                   Re: Forget The Little Green Men - White

From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 10:22:44 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 10:50:32 -0500
Subject: Re: Forget The Little Green Men - White


 >Source: The Guardian - London

 >http://books.guardian.co.uk/lrb/articles/0,6109,911464,00.html

 >Forget The Little Green Men

 >Is there life in outer space? One thing's for sure, they
 >wouldn't look anything like us. James Hamilton-Paterson surveys
 >the latest from the search for extraterrestrial life in this
 >exclusive LRB essay

 >Monday March 10, 2003

 >Evolving the Alien: The Science of Extraterrestrial Life by Jack
 >Cohen and Ian Stewart Ebury, 369 pp., =A317.99, September 2002, 0
 >09 187927 2

<snip>

Quoting:

"... there is virtually no possibility that they will resemble
Homo sapiens."

Observing Earth's creatures who live on land, and the reports of
UFO occupant sightings and UFO abductions, I would bet my money
that the human-like (and Earth-animal-like) form is _the_
predominant template for alien physiology.  I totally disagree
with the writer of that essay.


Eleanor White







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   Mar > Mar 11

                          Cancellation - Important

From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 20:31:41 -0300
Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 15:42:34 -0500
Subject: Cancellation - Important


Dear Whitley Strieber, program Dreamland:

After consulting some friends in the USA and in Brazil, I have
decided to write to you to request that you totally disconsider
and completely delete my segment of your next show, which should
be aired by internet on March 15, 2003. Please, simply erase the
tape with my interview and don=B4t use in part or whole, or any of
my quotes and talks to anything at all, written or broadcast.

My decision was influenced by the fact that we have recorded the
interview last Friday, March 07, just one day before your
program, on March 08, where Linda Moulton Howe presented what I
consider to be another hoax from Brazil, the alleged explosion
of a ball of light. I have detailed information of how the fraud
was fabricated. Her presentation of that on your program of
March 08 should have been of your knowledge, and previously you
recorded my interview.

I consider that you should have informed to me that Linda
Moulton Howe would be presenting that case the next day, so I
could, in the interview I gave to you, explain to your listeners
and to yourself how that hoax was produced as well as I have
tried to do with the other hoax she is supporting. I am not
implying that you avoided telling me that, unethically, nor with
obscure intentions. I just consider that I should have known
that.

Besides it all, considering that the interview was recorded, and
given the fact that Linda Moulton Howe, as consultant to your
program, is far away than reasonably supporting the set of
hoaxes she found in Brazil, I believe it was a mistake that I
have accepted giving that interview in the first place. You also
know that I consider Linda's passionate involvement in that set
of hoaxes totally unacceptable.

At any time you want, you may count on me to present any data,
any info, any detail etc from any Brazilian UFO case that I and
my fellow researchers have investigated and/or concluded
legitimate. But as long as your program is been used as tribune
by Linda Moulton Howe to present what she considers "sincere
efforts to find the truth", about the mentioned incidents, I
shaw respectfully decline talking about those hoaxes and the
perpetrator(s).

However, if in a program transmitted live, I would accept and
thankfully take part in segments about this or any other
subject, as well as I would be glad to take part in any live
debate about the mentioned set of hoaxes.

This message is being forwarded to the friends who helped me in
my decision and other of the US UFO Community. Please, don=B4t
take it personally and be sure that I always had and will have
great respect for you and your activities. I have shown that in
the past and I hope I can continue showing that in the future.


A. J. Gevaerd,

Editor Brazilian UFO Magazine

Copy:
Brazilian UFO Community (66 recipients)







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   Mar > Mar 11

                         Re: Postmodernism - Shough

From: Martin Shough <mshough@parcellular.fsnet.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 15:54:31 -0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 15:44:10 -0500
Subject: Re: Postmodernism - Shough


 >From: Andrew Dabrowski <dabrowsa@indiana.edu>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 05:15:02 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Postmodernism

 >>From: Colin Bennettt <sharkley1@panzerben1.fsworld.co.uk>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>>
 >>Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 13:32:57 -0000
 >>Subject: Re: Postmodernism - Bennettt

 ><snip>

 >>Postmodernism is nothing less than such a new view of mind and
 >>matter. It sees facts not as Newtonian billard ball atoms, but
 >>as streams of advertising, media, information-management, and
 >>degrees of allowance rather than fact or fiction. In the opinion
 >>of many, this view switched on the universal lights to reveal
 >>the interiors of fact to be the interplay of structured of
 >>pieces of manufactured cultural deception whose sole object is
 >>to get agendas into the prime time of consciousness.
 >>As regards momentum, Relativity deconstructed it along with
 >>Euclid and Newton both.

Andrew Dabrowski is entirely right. Insofar as those ideas to
which 'postmodernism' lays claim can be said to have relevance
to the interpretation of UFO reports they have been part of the
'understood' furniture of the discussion for decades, going
back, via Vallee, arguably to Fort himself - to whom ufologists
have a claim equal to that of anybody. These notions may not get
as much airtime as Colin would like these days, which is fair
enough but hardly gives grounds for sounding the trumpets of
Armeggedon over such a dramatic picture of the destruction of
rationality as he likes to paint.

I'd point out that the 'deconstruction' of Euclid and Newton
wasn't carried out by postmodernists but by physicists. The
deconstruction of quantum theory will be, too. And by the way,
total relativistic momentum is still conserved in any system. Or
in quantum theory the sum of the initial frequencies equals the
sum of the final frequencies and the sum of the initial wave
vectors equals the sum of the final wave vectors. Same thing,
because Planck's constant is a unique value. A physicist worked
that one out.

If postmodernism wants to use the processes of scientific change
to legitimate its own world view then it had better get used to
an insecure future. The fact is that we
_do_not_know_the_final_truth_ about the world, and that lesson,
too, was taught us by experimental science not by postmodern
philosphy. The point is that only science offers a chance of
finding out.

Colin may retort that the point of postmodernism is that we can
never "find out" in anything other than a temporising process of
falling into successive cultural false-vacuum conditions without
ever realising the myth of final rest at absolute zero. This may
be true. The possibility that it is true is a venerable (not to
say trivial) axiom of the sociology of knowledge and
history/philosophy of science. Perhaps the distinctive
contribution of postmodernism is a _proof_ that this is true? If
so then I'd like to ask what experiments Colin has performed to
demonstrate that conclusion.

Or will he refer again to the paradigmatic mutability of
science? This surely risks being one of Santayana's self-
  undermining ultimate insights, because if the next scientific
revolution decides that the world is, after all, a fully
determined complex system (because the ruling 'fuzzy' doctrine
is only a product of human imagination after all and sure to be
'wrong' someday) then there'll be a different philosophical
bandwagon coming along right after this one.


Martin Shough







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   Mar > Mar 11

                          Re: Postmodernism - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 16:04:28 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 15:45:47 -0500
Subject: Re: Postmodernism - Hall


 >From: Brenda Denzler <bdenzler1@email.msn.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 19:14:22 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Postmodernism

 >>From: Andrew Dabrowski <dabrowsa@indiana.edu>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 23:05:22 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Postmodernism

 >>>From: George Hansen <gphansen2001@yahoo.com>
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 11:18:11 -0800 (PST)
 >>>Subject: Re: Postmodernism

 >>>>From: Brenda Denzler <bdenzler1@email.msn.com>
 >>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>>Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 09:10:41 -0500
 >>>>Subject: Re: Postmodernism - Denzler

<snip>

 >>>Brenda Denzler explains --
 >>>"Pomo is, in a sense, a celebration of the uncertainties. Some-
 >>>times a grudging but good-humored celebration; other times a
 >>>downright raucous veritable Mardi Gras of a celebration."
 >>>Such raucous celebrations are examples of liminal conditions.
 >>>Denzler's metaphor here is entirely in keeping with
 >>>anthropological concepts of liminality. Ambiguity is a prime
 >>>characteristic of such conditions.

 >>>Denzler reports--
 >>>"What "pomo" is all about is bringing uncertainty out
 >>>from under the rug"
 >>>This is correct, and it's about time that ufologists explicitly
 >>>recognize this to be inherent in UFO phenomena.

 >>That's fine as far it goes, but you also seem to advocate giving
 >>up trying to ever actually resolve any of these uncertainties.
 >>That's what I object to.

 >Can't speak for George, but I myself would not advocate giving
 >up at all - only proceeding with a bit more humility and humor.


Brenda,

I have been following your comments on this thread with
interest, and probably have learned "more about postmodernism
than I care to know." It has been helpful to learn that there
are several schools of thought involved. However, I see no signs
of "humility" (or "humor" of any type that I appreciate)
emanating from the main self-appointed advocates of PM on this
list. To me, they seem far more arrogant and self-important than
advocates of scientific empiricism. To me, they also do come
across clearly as very anti-scientific and always derogating
science.

One of my greatest disappointments in life since I studied logic
and scientific method in college has been to learn that
scientists don't always adhere to scientific method, and in fact
behave dogmatically, reject out-of-hand borderline phenomena no
matter how well attested, etc. I probably am more aware of that
than most people when it comes to UFOs. The PM people on this
list are offering it as a superior path to truth/knowledge. They
are throwing out scientific method because scientists are human.
Literary analysis, spirituality, etc., certainly can enhance
life and knowledge and wisdom in many ways, but they are not a
substitute for scientific method when it comes to nature and
natural phenomena. I hope this articulates my position a little
better.


  - Dick







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   Mar > Mar 11

                         Re: Post-Modernism - Shough

From: Martin Shough <mshough@parcellular.fsnet.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 16:21:54 -0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 15:47:06 -0500
Subject: Re: Post-Modernism - Shough


 >From: Laurel Oplatka <calabash2003@webtv.net>
 >Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 00:06:46 -0800 (PST)
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Subject: Re: Post-Modernism

 >Greetings, Listers:

 >I propose kudos is due Colin Bennett for his latest very
 >educative, far-reaching, brilliant and humanizing Post-Modern
 >installment! I find his literary references to be most helpful
 >and invigorating (unlike his detractors who view them (terribly
 >wrong-headedly) as hifalutin irrelevancies.

 >I laud the courage of Colin and other Modernist Listers who are
 >trying to expand the cloistered views of strict determinism. In
 >"The Politics of the Imagination" Colin expresses this
 >wonderfully apropos thought: "It takes alot of intellectual
 >courage to confront a painful and messy chaos, as distinct from
 >trusting to formula, finite destiny, and fixed definable
 >deterministic purpose."

<snip>

 >The following, I think, interfaces well with Colin's mind-
 >stimulating Post:

 >"Useful as it is under everyday circumstances to say that the
 >world exists 'out there' independent of us, that view can no
 >longer be upheld. There is a strange sense in which this is a
 >'participatory' universe."

 > - John Wheeler, Nobel Prize-winning theoretical physicist

Hello Laurel

I know postmodernists reckon themselves major appreciators of
irony, but the irony of quoting Nobel-laureate physicists in
support of a post which demonizes 'Science' is pretty rich.
Which humanist poet was it whose "intellectual courage" that
confronted and overturned the evil spectre of determinism?
Remind me which postmodern literary critic it was that
reinvented the science of mechanics for Lorentz-symmetric
inertial frames and overthrew the Newtonian hegemony of absolute
space and time? And while we're at it, any ideas as to whose
will be the name associated with the next great transformation
in human understanding? I don't think it will be a post-
postmodern literateur. But doubtless there will be plenty of
those making themselves available to absorb the reflected glow
of complacent success whilst patronizing ("ah, how quaint those
old Wheelerian ideas!") the centuries of terrifically hard
intellectual and engineering achievement that generated the new
scientific 'reality' they choose to take for granted.


Martin Shough







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   Mar > Mar 11

                        Aliens May Gain State Honors

From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 13:39:52 -0300
Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 15:49:51 -0500
Subject: Aliens May Gain State Honors


Source: CNN.com

http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/space/03/10/offbeat.roswell.aliens.reut/index.html


Santa Fe, New Mexico (Reuters) -- E.T.: Phone New Mexico. They
may have a little something special for you.

A New Mexico legislator proposed Monday having the state honor
all extraterrestrial beings with a special day that will
"celebrate and honor all past, present and future
extraterrestrial visitors" to New Mexico, the measure reads.

Rep. Dan Foley, a Republican from Roswell, the spot where some
say aliens crash-landed more than 50 years ago, said he
introduced the legislation to "enhance relationships among all
the citizens of the cosmos, known and unknown."

Extraterrestrial Culture Day would be held the second Thursday
of February and would honor space travelers from other worlds
and even give a nod to creatures made famous in movies, such as
E.T. in Steven Spielberg's 1982 blockbuster film by the same
name.

In July of each year, thousands of earthly visitors descend on
Roswell, the self-appointed alien capital of the world, where
many UFO buffs believe an alien craft crash-landed in 1947,
based on claims that alien bodies were discovered there.

The town's population of 45,000 doubles and even triples during
the week long festival that includes speakers on
extraterrestrial life, UFOs and other anomalies such as crop
circles.

Foley feels the same excitement - and economic benefit - can be
spread to the rest of the state by adding a state-sanctioned day
of alien celebration.

"If we can capitalize on something that did or did not happen in
1947 then it can help the entire state," Foley said.












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                         Re: Postmodernism - Hansen

From: George Hansen <gphansen2001@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 08:44:47 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 15:52:12 -0500
Subject: Re: Postmodernism - Hansen


 >From: Andrew Dabrowski <dabrowsa@indiana.edu>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 05:15:02 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Postmodernism - Dabrowski


Andrew Dabrowski comments on Colin Bennett saying:

"It seems what really interests you is the sociology of science
(and UFOs). But there's no need to confuse that with science
itself."

This is a fundamental issue, and it is Dabrowski, rather than
Bennett, who seems confused on this point.

For instance, SSK (sociology of scientific knowledge) is a
postmodern endeavor. It uses the methods of science to study
science itself. It is a reflexive discipline.

There is an amusing history of scientists resisting scientific
attempts to study science. The criticisms of Bennett we see here
on this list, are strikingly similar to physicists' attacks on
Bruno Latour (a leading practitioner of SSK).

Scientists unthinkingly laud science, until it is applied to
their own activities. When scientists resist the application of
science, we need to be alert for their unstated agendas, agendas
that they are unconscious of themselves.


George P. Hansen
The Trickster and the Paranormal
http://www.tricksterbook.com







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                  Re: Forget The Little Green Men - Tonnies

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 09:02:14 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 15:54:31 -0500
Subject: Re: Forget The Little Green Men - Tonnies


 >From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 10:22:44 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Forget The Little Green Men

 >>Source: The Guardian - London

 >http://books.guardian.co.uk/lrb/articles/0,6109,911464,00.html

 >>Forget The Little Green Men

 >>Is there life in outer space? One thing's for sure, they
 >>wouldn't look anything like us. James Hamilton-Paterson surveys
 >>the latest from the search for extraterrestrial life in this
 >>exclusive LRB essay

 >>Monday March 10, 2003

 >>Evolving the Alien: The Science of Extraterrestrial Life by Jack
 >>Cohen and Ian Stewart Ebury, 369 pp., =A317.99, September 2002, 0
 >>09 187927 2

 ><snip>

 >Quoting:

 >"... there is virtually no possibility that they will resemble
 >Homo sapiens."

 >Observing Earth's creatures who live on land, and the reports of
 >UFO occupant sightings and UFO abductions, I would bet my money
 >that the human-like (and Earth-animal-like) form is _the_
 >predominant template for alien physiology. I totally disagree
 >with the writer of that essay.

You're in good company. Science guru (and UFO debunker) Isaac
Asimov advocated "parallel evolution," in which variations on
the bipedal, two eyes, two arms "template" is relatively common
among intelligent life-forms in the Cosmos.

I agree with you. I'm never impressed by debunkers who declare
that our old friends the "Grays" are "impossible" because
they're "too much like us." They're actually strikingly
different in several respects, if reports are valid. (Comments,
John?)

At the same time, I appreciate Jacques Vallee's commentary on
"absurd humanoids." Some ufonauts look a little bit _too much_
like us for comfort...are we dealing with a system that
manipulates belief by appealing to what we think ETs "should"
look like at any given point in history?

On a related note, here's my contribution to the alien autopsy
debate. I conclude that the "alien" is essentially human (if of
course it's real):

http://www.mactonnies.com/aa.html


Mac Tonnies
macbot@yahoo.com

MTVI: http://www.mactonnies.com
Transcelestial Ontology, Posthumanism and Theoretical Ufology

Blog: http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com (updated daily)







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                         Re: Postmodernism - Gehrman

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
Date: 11 Mar 2003 17:44:05 -0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 05:25:01 -0500
Subject: Re: Postmodernism - Gehrman


 >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 01:20:08 EST
 >Subject: Re: Postmodernism

 >>From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
 >>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 18:25:00 -0700
 >>Subject: Re: Postmodernism


 >><snip>

 >>What a crock of crappola and waste of life.

 >Speaking about crocks of crappola, a secret source on the inside
 >leaked me a copy of the "Corso's Greatest Hits" soundtrack... a
 >collection of one hit wonders from the great one himself.:) On
 >that album we have:

 >In The Mine With ET... (with the Grey chorus)

I don't understand. Are all contacts with ET bogus or just Col.
Corso's?

 >Fly Me In Your Time Machine (with Crash Landing and the Nazi's)

So, as far as you're concerned, time travel is bunk or is it
just Col. Corso's time travel that concerns you?

 >J Edgar And Me (With The Black Bags)

Are you saying that Col. Corso never worked with J. Edgar. Have
you read Corso's "FBI Files Revisited"?

 >I Worked For Ike (With The Secret Agent Chorus)

Are you saying that Col. Corso didn't work for Ike and wasn't
Ike's military intel aide? Do you have evidence for this claim?

 >and lastly, one of the greater hits of all time
 >I See Dead ET (With Flunky And The Stiffs)

Col. Corso claimed he saw a dead ET in July, 1947 while
stationed at Ft. Riley. You have no proof that he didn't. He has
no proof that he did. I happen to believe Corso because when he
told this story on the Art Bell show, he didn't show the voice
stress that would be expected if he were telling a lie of this
magnitude.

 >Hmm, sorry about the retro trip into bull land but I couldn't
 >resist.

I didn't want to begin this discussion again, but couldn't
resist. All I have to offer is Corso's VSA and my research paper
on Corso's FBI files. The VSA is a scientific and objective
tool, so I don't understand the resistance to it I see on this
list. VSA can be replicated,as I suggested to Richard. I'd even
let him choose the tester and pay for the cost myself. The
results would be public.

And while we're on the subject, why haven't any of you brave
listers confronted Stan F. for lying about reading "The Day
After Roswell" and also lying when he stated that Corso wrote
that he had caused the development of integrated circuits. This
type of ambiguous behavior, by so-called objective scientists,
is what post-modernism exploits just as it abhors our treatment
of lab animals.

And we should be reminded that lab animals,too, have subjective
lives and suffer, just as we would suffer if abducted and
cruelly treated. Don't you think lab animals get the blues?
Doesn't this concern you?


Ed







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                 Re: Forget The Little Green Men - Hamilton

From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 10:32:55 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 05:51:54 -0500
Subject: Re: Forget The Little Green Men - Hamilton


 >From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 10:22:44 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Forget The Little Green Men

 >>Source: The Guardian - London

 >>http://books.guardian.co.uk/lrb/articles/0,6109,911464,00.html

 >>Forget The Little Green Men

 >>Is there life in outer space? One thing's for sure, they
 >>wouldn't look anything like us. James Hamilton-Paterson surveys
 >>the latest from the search for extraterrestrial life in this
 >>exclusive LRB essay

 >>Monday March 10, 2003

 >>Evolving the Alien: The Science of Extraterrestrial Life by Jack
 >>Cohen and Ian Stewart Ebury, 369 pp., =A317.99, September 2002, 0
 >>09 187927 2

 ><snip>

 >Quoting:

 >"... there is virtually no possibility that they will resemble
 >Homo sapiens."

 >Observing Earth's creatures who live on land, and the reports of
 >UFO occupant sightings and UFO abductions, I would bet my money
 >that the human-like (and Earth-animal-like) form is _the_
 >predominant template for alien physiology. I totally disagree
 >with the writer of that essay.


I agree with you Eleanor. There are continuing changes in
evolutionary biology and good reasons to believe that human-like
forms may be universal, even beyond the UFO witness testimony.

See: http://bcornet.homestead.com/files/evolution_discussion.htm

This is an essay by Dr. Bruce Cornet on why he feels there are physical
constraints on biological forms.

You might also see my essay

http://www.skywatch-research.org/telos.htm

on Telic Evolution which takes into account semiotics and
information theory.

I also include some comments from Dr. Rhawn Joseph from his book
on Astrobiology. Dr. Joseph makes an amazing statement which led
me to correspond with him:

"the genetic seeds of life swarm throughout the cosmos, and some
of these genetic "seeds" fell to Earth, as well as on other
planets. And these genetic "seeds" contained the instructions
for the metamorphosis of all life, including woman and man.
Contrary to Darwinism, life did not evolve secondary to "random
mutations" but in a purposeful, highly predictable, genetically
controlled, step-wise, molecular clock-like fashion, and in
accordance with the genetic engineering of the environment and
the womb of the planet. Just as a caterpillar spins a cocoon and
later undergoes a profound metamorphosis and emerges as a
butterfly, the metamorphosis of life on this planet has been
genetically predetermined and genetically precoded, unfolding in
accordance with the genetic engineering of the environment and
those DNA-based instructions maintained within the genomes of
the first living creatures to appear on Earth. DNA acts to
purposefully modify the environment, which acts on gene
selection, so as to fullfill specific genetic goals: the
dispersal and activation of silent DNA and the replication of
life forms that long ago lived on other planets."

My own research has led me to a similar conclusion.

-Bill Hamilton








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                        Re: Post-Modernism - Kimball

From: Paul Kimball <Kimballwood@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 15:16:35 EST
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 05:56:22 -0500
Subject: Re: Post-Modernism - Kimball


 >From: Laurel Oplatka <calabash2003@webtv.net>
 >Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 00:06:46 -0800 (PST)
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Subject: Re: Post-Modernism

<snip>

 >Greetings, Listers:

 >I propose kudos is due Colin Bennett for his latest very
 >educative, far-reaching, brilliant and humanizing Post-Modern
 >installment! I find his literary references to be most helpful
 >and invigorating (unlike his detractors who view them (terribly
 >wrong-headedly) as hifalutin irrelevancies.

Laurel:

Educative, far-reaching, brilliant and humanizing?

Wow.

I can only wonder what you would say about someone who actually
had something useful to say.

As for "hifalutin irrelevancies", I couldn't disagree more.

I'd take out the "highfalutin" part.

Still, y'all do make me laugh. That's got to be worth something.


Best regards,

Paul Kimball








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                          Secrecy News -- 03/11/03

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 15:53:49 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 05:58:03 -0500
Subject: Secrecy News -- 03/11/03


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2003, Issue No. 21
March 11, 2003


**DRAFT EXECUTIVE ORDER ON SECRECY ADVANCES
**IN PRINT


DRAFT EXECUTIVE ORDER ON SECRECY ADVANCES

A new draft executive order on national security classification
and declassification policy began circulating for official
comment this week.  An early assessment offered by one agency
official who favors public access to government information, is
that "It could be a lot worse."

When finalized, the new executive order will replace President
Clinton's 1995 executive order 12958, which dramatically
accelerated the declassification process and which has now
yielded close to a billion pages of historically valuable
declassified documents.

In recent decades, whenever the Presidency shifted from one
party to another, the new President would issue an executive
order on secrecy policy to serve as the foundation of the
classification system.  Typically, and at least rhetorically,
the orders issued by Democratic presidents (e.g., Clinton's EO
12958) have emphasized disclosure, while those of Republican
presidents (e.g., Reagan's EO 12356) have stressed secrecy.

The Bush Administration initiative to craft a new executive
order, which began in August 2001, has therefore been a source
of anxiety for those who feared that the Administration's
predilection for official secrecy would lead to dramatic changes
in classification policy.  But that may not turn out to be the
case.

The new draft order "amounts to amendments to the Clinton order,
rather than an entirely new Bush order," according to the
official.

A number of changes have been made, but they are "quite modest,
quite supportable" the official said.  "If you parsed it out,
you would find things you didn't like.  But I question whether
those things make a lot of real world difference anyway."

Executive orders on classification define top level information
policies, but they cannot prevent officials from making
unwarranted or irrational classification decisions.

There is a loose deadline of April 17, 2003 for issuance of the
new order, because that is the date on which 25 year old
classified files that are replete with intelligence information
or multi-agency "equities" are due to be automatically
declassified, pursuant to Executive Order 13142.  The new Bush
order is expected to defer that April 17 deadline.

The text of the new draft executive order was not immediately
available.


IN PRINT

"Protecting secrets when appropriate, disclosing secrets when
proper, and managing secrecy are all normal parts of the
democratic process," writes Bruce Berkowitz of the Hoover
Institution.  "The same principles that are used to strike a
balance among competing interests in a democracy can be used to
oversee intelligence secrets as well."

See "Democracies and Their Spies," by Bruce Berkowitz, Hoover
Digest, Winter 2003:

http://www-
hoover.stanford.edu/publications/digest/031/berkowitz.html

In the USA Patriot Act's provisions for electronic surveillance,
"too much has been left to executive branch discretion,"
according to an analysis in the Duke Law Journal.  "Americans
should be concerned that privacy may be unnecessarily threatened
as a result."

See "The Patriot Act's Impact on the Government's Ability to
Conduct Electronic Surveillance of Ongoing Domestic
Communications" by Nathan C. Henderson, Duke Law Journal,
October 2002:

http://www.law.duke.edu/shell/cite.pl?52+Duke+L.+J.+179

A 1966 study performed for the Defense Department evaluated, and
rejected, the hypothetical use of tactical nuclear weapons in
Vietnam.  A declassified copy of that study, and related
analyses that draw lessons for today, may be found here:

http://www.nautilus.org/VietnamFOIA/

The personal files of British agents of the World War II Special
Operations Executive are among the releases announced by the UK
Public Record Office this month.  See:

http://www.pro.gov.uk/releases/r2003.htm



_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood@fas.org
voice:  (202) 454-4691






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             Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S

From: Colin Stevenson <colin@c2k2.fsworld.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 21:37:37 -0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 06:01:31 -0500
Subject: Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S


 >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 14:11:33 -0800
 >Subject: Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S

 >>From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 21:23:19 +0000
 >>Subject: Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S

 >>>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 12:14:10 -0800
 >>>Subject: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S

 >Hello John:

 >That makes at least 3 important websites the fellow wrote to. I
 >think that's a lot of successful work for somebody who cannot
 >spell, nor parse a sentence, nor distinguish between the subject
 >line and the body of an email.

 >Why do I smell a rat?

 >The seemingly deliberately rough-hewn message I got gave no
 >details at all about dates, time, place, etc. .. not even the
 >name of the documentary.

 >Could this be a test, along the lines of "Who is more credulous
 >than who?" Things like that are sometimes done in psychology or
 >journalism departments, some less subtle than others.

 >Best wishes - Larry Hatch

Hi Larry and all

What has been seen may actually be Rods

http://www.roswellrods.com/

after a quick read of it


Kind regards

Colin Stevenson







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                        Re: Postmodernism - Dabrowski

From: Andrew Dabrowski <dabrowsa@indiana.edu>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 16:52:12 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 06:03:03 -0500
Subject: Re: Postmodernism - Dabrowski


 >From: George Hansen <gphansen2001@yahoo.com>
 >Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 08:44:47 -0800 (PST)
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Subject: Re: Postmodernism

 >>From: Andrew Dabrowski <dabrowsa@indiana.edu>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 05:15:02 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Postmodernism - Dabrowski

 >Andrew Dabrowski comments on Colin Bennett saying:
 >"It seems what really interests you is the sociology of science
 >(and UFOs). But there's no need to confuse that with science
 >itself."

I'm sorry I obscured my point by being so telegraphic. I was
using "science" here as shorthand for the scientific field of
your choice. Perhaps I should ahve just kept it simple: "It
seems what really interests you is the sociology of Ufology. But
there's no need to confuse that with Ufology itself."

 >This is a fundamental issue, and it is Dabrowski, rather than
 >Bennett, who seems confused on this point.
 >For instance, SSK (sociology of scientific knowledge) is a
 >postmodern endeavor. It uses the methods of science to study
 >science itself. It is a reflexive discipline.

I think you have the sequence backwards. SSK predates pomo, and
no doubt contributed greatly to it. But pomo has yet to return
the favor.

And your use of "relexive" here is fashionably smart but hollow.
SSK does not, I believe (correct if I'm wrong) study itself. It
studies other fields of science.

 >There is an amusing history of scientists resisting scientific
 >attempts to study science. The criticisms of Bennett we see here
 >on this list, are strikingly similar to physicists' attacks on
 >Bruno Latour (a leading practitioner of SSK).

I'm afraid Colin Bennett will be mortified to learn that you
consider him a scientist. Next someone will accuse him of
torturing bunnies.

 >Scientists unthinkingly laud science, until it is applied to
 >their own activities. When scientists resist the application of
 >science, we need to be alert for their unstated agendas, agendas
 >that they are unconscious of themselves.

Scientists only object to SSK when it reveals an ignorance of
the science it claims to be studying.


Andrew Dabrowski







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                          Re: Postmodernism - McCoy

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@charter.net>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 13:52:35 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 08:15:33 -0500
Subject: Re: Postmodernism - McCoy


 >From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 18:25:00 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Postmodernism

 >>From: Colin Bennett <sharkley1@panzerben1.fsworld.co.uk>
 >>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 13:32:57 -0000
 >>Subject: Re: Postmodernism - Bennett

 ><snip>

 >What a crock of crappola and waste of life.


Hello, all, I agree with Wendy, (and Dick) when postmodernisum
praticioners have any thing of value like Fusion,(scientifically
possible) Power, or a General Cure for Cancer (scientifically
possible) or even a truly realisitc, workable philosophy,
(scientifically impossible). I might give it some serious
thought.

As some may remember, I am a proponent of applied scientific
thought to the study of UFOs, and I do agree that Science is not
going to give up a standard dogma of the non-exsistance of UFOs
when they do (personal experience-more than once) exsist. But
the fuzzy thinking of Pomos, where all things are of equal value
is not going to reap benefits in the real world either.

Banging two Rocks togeather,and going Org! Org! might have had
some benefit to Neanderthal, but it is not the equivalent of
building a Moon Rocket. Holding one's hand over a boiling pot of
herbs and chanting "Boola, Boola, sickness be gone!", may have
helped some of my tribal ancestors, (yes there is something to
the herb thing) But, finding out why those herbs worked -
through experimentation, will lead to better therapy and
treatment fine, so be it. My wife and I are alive because of
science. My Mother and Mother-in-Law too.

While there is some benefits of applying non-linear, non-
dogmatic thinking to many subjects, to throw the Scientific baby
out with the Pomo bathwater is to deconsruct civilization, and
with that deconstuction, we get what happened the last time, -
the Dark Ages. and here we are again... Banging two rocks
together,Org!


GT McCoy







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                         Re: Postmodernism - Roberts

From: Andy Roberts <aj.roberts@blueyonder.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 22:15:01 -0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 08:17:17 -0500
Subject: Re:  Postmodernism - Roberts


 >From: Colin Bennett <sharkley1@panzerben1.fsworld.co.uk>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>>
 >Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 13:32:57 -0000
 >Subject: Re: Postmodernism - Bennett

Colin wrote:

 >Postmodernism is a philosophy whose world-view is based on
 >single idea. That idea is that what we perceive as objective
 >fact is an advertising construct created by cultural gaming-
 >systems.

Aha! If you recall Colin's entry into this hall of mirrors a few
months ago I pointed out then that he would soon be telling us
he was the way. True to form he has done. Surely the assertion
that post-modernism is a single idea is rather limiting and not
at all fortean (a 'philosophy' which Colin is constantly
claiming ownership of).

I've come to quite like Colin over the past months - he ties up
the List in a way no-one else can do, yet effectively says
nothing about anything. A great talent.

I note in a recent book review of the new Richard Dawkins book
post-modernism and its ilk is referred to as:

'the low-grade intellectual poodling of pseudo-philosophical
poseurs'.

Way to go Richard - is he on Colin's mailing list I wonder?

Colin also wrote:

 >Thus this world no longer obeys any law of objective mechanical
 >causation.

Oh dear! I offer the following quote from the Incredible String
Band which clearly demonstrates the stupity of Colin's assertion
above:

'You may have observed that when you walk into a wall you get a
certain sensation of reality'.

Try it Colin. Report on what happens.

You, Jerry and your sychophants are doing a great job. Keep it
up - this is the stuff that gets the outside world _really_
interested in the subject - NOT!

If you're at UnCon Colin I'll be happy to buy you a pint of
whatever you're drinking (hemlock? - hey, no mechanical
causation, baby).


Happy trails

Andy





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                           Happy Space Alien Day!

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 09:15:35 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 09:15:35 -0500
Subject: Happy Space Alien Day!

http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=oddlyEnoughNews&storyID=2361082

Happy Space Alien Day!
Tue March 11, 2003 09:42 AM ET

SANTA FE, N.M. (Reuters) - E.T.: Phone New Mexico. They may have
a little something special for you.

A New Mexico legislator proposed on Monday having the state
honor all extraterrestrial beings with a special day that will
"celebrate and honor all past, present and future
extraterrestrial visitors" to New Mexico, the measure reads.

Rep. Dan Foley, a Republican from Roswell, the spot where some
say aliens crash-landed more than 50 years ago, said he
introduced the legislation to "enhance relationships among all
the citizens of the cosmos, known and unknown."

Extraterrestrial Culture Day would be held the second Thursday
of February and would honor space travelers from other worlds
and even give a nod to creatures made famous in movies, such as
E.T. in Steven Spielberg's 1982 blockbuster film.

In July of each year, thousands of earthly visitors descend on
Roswell, the self-appointed alien capital of the world, where
many UFO buffs believe an alien craft crash-landed in 1947,
based on claims that alien bodies were discovered there.

The town's population of 45,000 doubles and even triples during
the week long festival that includes speakers on
extraterrestrial life, UFOs and other anomalies such as crop
circles.

Foley feels the same excitement -- and economic benefit-- can be
spread to the rest of the state by adding a state-sanctioned day
of alien celebration.

"If we can capitalize on something that did or did not happen in
1947 then it can help the entire state," Foley said.


[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]







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                      Alien Life Search Inches Forward

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 09:16:34 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 09:16:34 -0500
Subject: Alien Life Search Inches Forward

http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,57992,00.html

02:00 AM Mar. 11, 2003 PT

Alien Life Search Inches Forward


Scientists behind the world's largest distributed computing
project are about to take a closer look at some of the most
promising of the billions of radio signals they've collected in
their search for intelligent life in outer space.

Between March 18 and 20, SETI -- which stands for Search for
Extraterrestrial Intelligence -- astronomers will visit the
giant Arecibo radio telescope in Puerto Rico to re-examine
between 100 and 200 of the best radio signals from space, which
have been identified by millions of home computers working in
concert.

SETI@Home is a volunteer program that uses the spare computing
cycles of ordinary home computers to look for signs of alien
life in outer space. Participants download what is essentially a
screensaver program, which switches on when computers are idle
so it can crunch data.

SETI@Home has sifted through billions of radio signals and
identified the most likely candidates.

Since it started in 1999, SETI@Home has become the biggest
distributed computing project in history. Its 4 million
participants in 226 countries have crunched an incredible 1.3
million years in computing time -- or about 1,000 years of
computing time a day.

It is also the biggest virtual supercomputer on the planet,
averaging 52 teraflops, or 52 trillion floating-point operations
a second. The next most-powerful supercomputer is Japan's Earth
simulator, which clocks in at 10 teraflops.

The SETI@Home distributed system is more powerful than all the
other supercomputers on the planet combined, according to
SETI@Home scientists.

In spite of the immense computing power, veteran alien hunters
aren't holding their breath that they'll find extraterrestrial
life. Scientists say intelligent life isn't likely to be located
for another 20 years at least.

"We're not jumping up and down saying we've got to get to the
telescope immediately, we've just found E.T.," said Dan
Werthimer, SETI@Home's chief scientist. "These are the best
signals that 4 million volunteers have found over the last four
years, and we're going to check up on them."

Using a variety of algorithms, the screensavers have whittled
down the 5 billion strong signals, or spikes, to about 350
million that look interesting.

All of these 350 million signals display a Gaussian, or bell
curve, profile. As the Arecibo telescope scans across the sky,
the signal becomes progressively stronger and then weaker, just
like a bell-shaped curve.

"That characteristic pattern gets us excited," said Werthimer,
because it means the signal is coming from a fixed point in
space, and is getting stronger and weaker as the telescope
tracks across it.

The litmus test to determine whether a signal might indicate an
alien civilization is transmission from the same part of the
sky, at the same frequency, on two or more observations. The
idea is to eliminate from consideration random bursts of energy.

Hundreds of signals have been broadcast twice, three times, even
four times, over an 18-month period. A map on the project's site
shows the results: Red dots are signals picked up more than
twice. Green dots are signals detected four or more times.

But so far, every signal that merits closer inspection has
proven a red herring.

"Occasionally, you find very strong signals and you look more
closely, but it turns out to be a satellite or interference,"
said Werthimer.

Even though 1.3 million years of computing time seems like a lot
to throw at a problem, Werthimer said it's just the beginning.

SETI@Home currently searches a narrow 2.5-MHz band among the
billions of potential radio bands. A thorough search for signs
of intelligent life would include a much wider swath of the
electromagnetic spectrum.

A good candidate, for example, would be light. Advanced alien
civilizations might communicate with lasers because of their
high information-bearing capacity, Werthimer said.

The good news for SETI@Home researchers is that the ever-
increasing power of computers means more and more cycles can be
applied at the search.

"I've been doing this for 27 years and I still think we're just
scratching the surface," Werthimer said. "We're searching such a
small range of frequencies.... We are 20 or 30 years away from a
thorough search. It's like combing a cosmic haystack. We've just
started poking around the edges."

SETI@home is privately funded, primarily by the Planetary
Society, a non-profit foundation co-founded by astronomer Carl
Sagan. SETI@home is one of six SETI projects backed by the
Planetary Society.

A complementary search effort, the SETI Institute's Project
Phoenix, will also travel to Arecibo in April. Though it shares
the SETI acronym, the SETI Institute is not associated with
SETI@home.

Unlike SETI@Home, Project Phoenix takes a more targeted
approach. The project's astronomers have identified scores of
promising systems -- stars that are similar to the sun, or those
with planets, for example -- and will be looking for radio
signals emanating from them. SETI@Home, on the other hand,
examines a wide sweep of the sky looking for promising signals
first.

"They are two different approaches," said Seth Shostak, Project
Phoenix's senior astronomer. "One isn't any better than the
other because we don't know what we're looking for. They
complement each other."

Shostak agreed that it may be another 20 years before scientists
find signs of intelligent life in outer space. The biggest
contribution, he said, will be from the Allen Telescope Array, a
dedicated alien-hunting radio telescope due to come online in
2005.

The Allen Telescope Array will expand search capabilities
hundredfold, Shostak said. In 20 or 25 years, it will thoroughly
examine more than 1 million stars. To date, about 500 stars have
been examined systematically, Shostak said.

"Examining 1 million stars is a realistic estimate of what it
will take to find intelligent life," Shostak said.


[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]









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                        Re: Post-Modernism - Denzler

From: Brenda Denzler <bdenzler1@email.msn.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 19:52:25 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 09:22:23 -0500
Subject: Re:  Post-Modernism - Denzler


 >From: Laurel Oplatka <calabash2003@webtv.net>
 >Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 00:06:46 -0800 (PST)
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Subject: Re: Post-Modernism

 >In Colin's discussion of a holistic UFO approach he mentions
 >(re: the observation of Mac Tonnies) a PM view which "sees a
 >long scaling between the radar/vision case and the alien face on
 >a pack of chewing gum......" Yes, I too, like to ponder/consider
 >the "alien invasion into pop culture" aspect, and I am noticing
 >more and more of this 'image' trend here in Los Angeles.


Laurel:

I'd love to have a photo of that billboard! I've been collecting
cultural references to UFOs and aliens since the mid- 1990s.
Magazine ads, commercials on TV, lollipops in the shape of alien
heads, UFO-related trinkets as party favors, etc., etc., etc. I
have two under-bed boxes filled with things like alien puppets
and other 3-D collectables. Hanging from the ceiling just to my
left is my UFO pinata. On the wall next to it is my UFO and
alien-face kite. Can you take a picture that I could add to my
collection?


Brenda Denzler







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                         Re: Postmodernism - Denzler

From: Brenda Denzler <bdenzler1@email.msn.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 20:06:34 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 09:24:28 -0500
Subject: Re: Postmodernism - Denzler


 >From: Andrew Dabrowski <dabrowsa@indiana.edu>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 03:13:41 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Postmodernism

 >>From: Brenda Denzler <bdenzler1@email.msn.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 19:03:24 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Postmodernism

 >Whether a particular question "demands" an answer is perhaps a
 >matter of taste. Would you say that physics and mathematics deal
 >with questions that don't "demand" an answer?

<snip>

 >Does that mean that you feel that the question as to the nature
 >of UFOs does "demand" an answer?

 >You've said you have great respect for empirical science, yet in
 >the following paragraph you seem to suggest that it is incapable
 >of ever resolving anything.

If you mean "resolving" in a grand, ultimate sense, then yes,
that's what I mean. If you mean "resolving" in the sense of
coming to workable, usable answers to questions, then no, that's
not what I mean.

And also please note that in the paragraph you quoted from me, I
was stating what postmodernism says -- which you have attributed
to me, instead. Although I have a lot of sympathy for postmodern
ideas, as I've said before, I'm not really sure I'd call myself
a postmodern-ista.

 >I don't think anyone on this List would say that science should
 >be the utimate arbiter on social issues; I don't think many
 >scientists feel that way. But as for being the arbiter of truth
 >on questions about the material world, it's the only game in
 >town.

Yes, it is more or less the only recognized, sanctioned game in
town. But read *Cosmopolis* to see how another game, entirely,
could have been the one we're sitting here debating about, had
circumstances been different historically.

Sorry I can't respond at more length. First, I was just offering
some feedback on what postmodernism means, and I have allowed
my-self to get drawn into an ongoing discussion that I am ill-
equipped to pursue. I'm not even sure I _want_ to go on at
greater length. Second, I'm just dog tired tonight and could
really care less if Newton and Einstein are or can be friends
with Derrida.


Brenda Denzler







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                         Re: Postmodernism - Bowden

From: Tom Bowden <tomrbowden@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 17:35:02 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 09:26:05 -0500
Subject: Re: Postmodernism - Bowden


 >From: George Hansen <gphansen2001@yahoo.com>
 >Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 08:44:47 -0800 (PST)
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Subject: Re: Postmodernism

 >>From: Andrew Dabrowski <dabrowsa@indiana.edu>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 05:15:02 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Postmodernism - Dabrowski

<snip>

Listers, please, haven't we heard enough about Post-Modernism?
There were 14 new posts on this stuff just today! On the whole,
I fail to see the relevance.

I realize it is not a novel concept that different people have
different ideas about the nature of objective reality. I have
even tried to convince my wife that "common sense" is not the
same for everyone. (That might have been an even more futile
discussion than the recent rounds on P-M!)

Science has always had to devote a considerable effort to
establishing ways to define measurements and record observations
of phenomena in a way that more than one observer could agree
upon.

I, for one, would like to get back to UFO UpDates. Let's move on
and leave all of the lengthy discussions of Postmodernism to the
ivory tower philosophers.


Please?

Tom B.







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                    CI: 'Nothing in This Book Is True...'

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 19:19:43 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 09:29:05 -0500
Subject: CI: 'Nothing in This Book Is True...'


Cydonian Imperative
8-12-03

'Nothing in This Book Is True, But It's Exactly How
Things Are' -- New Edition!

by Mac Tonnies

See: http://www.mactonnies.com/cydonia.html (page 37)


Bob Frissell's 'Nothing in This Book Is True, But It's Exactly
How Things Are' (now in its third, expanded edition) is one
man's attempt to reconcile subjective truths with a bewildering
postmodern universe consisting of alien Grays, monumental
architecture on Mars, secret government conspiracies, and sacred
geometry. Copiously illustrated and written with surprising
lucidity, Frissell's manifesto is an illuminating crack in the
wall of orthodox thought. 'Nothing...' is an intriguing
compliment to other works that attempt to "explain it all," such
as David Jinks' excellent "The Monkey and the Tetrahedron" and
Bruce Rux' wildly credulous 'Architects of the Underworld'. Take
the plunge!

For more Mars/Cydonia book reviews, see:

htp://www.mactonnies.com/cydoniabooks.html

For books dealing with relatively "mainstream" science and
technology, see:

http://www.mactonnies.com/scitech.html

-end-







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                 Re: Aliens May Gain State Honors - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 23:13:16 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 09:31:10 -0500
Subject: Re: Aliens May Gain State Honors - Stanford



 >From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 13:39:52 -0300
 >Subject: Aliens May Gain State Honors

I think what New Mexico Rep. Dan Foley is proposing is actually
_exploitation_, not honors.

If his proposal in accepted and enacted (which I doubt) it could
ultimately lead to more ridicule of UFO studies, if media
behavior in the past is any indicator of future behavior.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of trifles."
                  --Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery







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                             Post Postmodernism

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 09:39:23 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 09:39:23 -0500
Subject: Post Postmodernism


And so, as the Postmodernism thread sinks, slowly, in the West
we bit it a fond adieu, grateful for the joy, hilarity and and
biting social introspection it brought us.....

Bye-bye,

ebk








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                    Re: Cancellation - Important - Gates

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 01:16:47 EST
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 09:32:50 -0500
Subject: Re: Cancellation - Important - Gates


 >From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
 >To: Whitley Strieber <whitley@strieber.com>
 >Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 20:31:41 -0300
 >Subject: Cancellation - Important


 >Dear Whitley Strieber, program Dreamland:

 >After consulting some friends in the USA and in Brazil, I have
 >decided to write to you to request that you totally disconsider
 >and completely delete my segment of your next show, which should
 >be aired by internet on March 15, 2003. Please, simply erase the
 >tape with my interview and don=B4t use in part or whole, or any of
 >my quotes and talks to anything at all, written or broadcast.

 >My decision was influenced by the fact that we have recorded the
 >interview last Friday, March 07, just one day before your
 >program, on March 08, where Linda Moulton Howe presented what I
 >consider to be another hoax from Brazil, the alleged explosion
 >of a ball of light. I have detailed information of how the fraud
 >was fabricated. Her presentation of that on your program of
 >March 08 should have been of your knowledge, and previously you
 >recorded my interview.

AJ,

Could you share with us exactly how the alleged hoax was done?
I am sure Listers would be interested.


Cheers,

Robert







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                          Re: Postmodernism - Clark

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 07:52:10 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 09:35:03 -0500
Subject: Re: Postmodernism - Clark


 >From: Andy Roberts <aj.roberts@blueyonder.co.uk>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 22:15:01 -0000
 >Subject: Re: Postmodernism

 >>From: Colin Bennett <sharkley1@panzerben1.fsworld.co.uk>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>>
 >>Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 13:32:57 -0000
 >>Subject: Re: Postmodernism - Bennett


Patient and gentle Listfolk:

 >You, Jerry and your sychophants are doing a great job. Keep it
 >up - this is the stuff that gets the outside world _really_
 >interested in the subject - NOT!

I had given up reading Andy's posts - life is too short and my
tolerance of chest-thumping alpha-pelicanists growingly
nonexistent - but I fell to temptation on this one. It was,
alas, an unworthy, perverse curiosity which had me wondering if,
even if I have had nothing to say in the debate about pomo and
only modest interest therein, Andy still couldn't resist
featuring me, aka the Great Satan, in his latest hit.

I am not surprised to see that the record is still stuck, though
I am impressed that he has now been reduced to citing the
authoritative pronouncements of Scientologists (e.g., the late
Incredible String Band). Unlike Andy, the rest of don't need
Scientologists to tell us what would happen if we walked into a
wall.

Back to real life...

Jerry Clark








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                       UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 11

From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 12:27:37 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 11:19:17 -0500
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 11


Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor.

<Masinaigan@aol.com>
==========================

       UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 8, Number 11
March 12, 2003
Editor: Joseph Trainor

http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/


UFOs REPORTED IN UK

       On Wednesday, February 26, 2003, at 4:30 p.m., Andrew
B. was in Priory Park, Reigate, Surrey, UK when he noticed
a UFO approaching from the east.  Andrew reported, "Me and
my friend Simon were in the park playing football ( soccer
in the USA--J.T.) when we saw this 'craft' fly across the
sky in front of us.  At first we dismissed it as a low-
flying model aircraft.  But after examining the speed of
the object, we realised that this could not be so."
       Andrew described the UFO as "silver, flattened,
metallic.  It seemed to be a flattened cylindrical shape.
It was 100 to 150 feet (30 to 45 meters) off the ground,
extremely fast, for it crossed the sky from one horizon to
the other in 20 seconds or so."
       On Monday, February 3, 2003, at 9:30 p.m., Matt B.
was in Oldbury, Birmingham West, Midlands, UK when he saw
a UFO approach from the southwest.  Matt reported, "I had
just been to the local store.  I was looking up into the
sky when I thought I saw a jet, but there was no sound of
any engines.  There were two white lights with a black
cylinder shape.  Then the lights turned clockwise slowly.
Then one light shot off at (high) speed southwest.  It was
slow at first, then really fast, then it disappeared."
(Email Form Reports)


CIGAR-SHAPED UFO SEEN IN
LISMORE, NEW SOUTH WALES

       Residents of Lismore, a small city in Australia's
state of New South Wales, spotted UFOs flying over the
area last week.
       "A UFO was sighted near Lismore.  The odd craft was
said to be cigar-shaped with a light at each end.  The
object was heading from east to west.  Sighting of the
object lasted for seven seconds before it disappeared out
of sight."
       "A daylight sighting of a missile-shaped object at
four degrees" above the horizon "was seen by a lady while
waiting for a traffic light to change at Ballan Street in
Lismore."
       In the state of South Australia, the Southern Times-
Messenger "reported a UFO sighting at Christie's Beach.  A
witness said she 'saw the same thing a bit later at 11
p.m. at O'Sullivan's Beach.  The object was bigger than a
star.  It flashed three times in different locations and
moved faster than a plane.'"  (See The Northern Mercury of
Lismore, N.S.W. for March 2, 3002.  Many thanks to John
Hayes and Diane Harrison of the Australian UFO Research
Network for forwarding these newspaper reports.)
(Editor's Comment:  Curiously, the UFOs appeared in
Lismore just after the twenty-fifth anniversary of the
city's "glowing cross" phenomenon.  For more on the
Lismore cross, see UFO Roundup, volume 8, number 9 for
February 26, 2003, "1907: A strange death at Mullumbimby,"
page 10; and volume 8, number 10 for March 5, 2003, "1978:
The Lourdes of Australia?" page 8.)


LUMINOUS UFO SPOTTED IN
SPAIN's CANARY ISLANDS

       On Wednesday, February 19, 2003, "a luminous UFO was
videotaped by a family living in the barrio San Luis
(neighborhood) in the city of Las Palmas de Gran Canaria,
the largest city in Spain's Canary Islands, located off
the coast of Morocco.
       The videotape was aired on an evening news show on
Spain's Antena 3 network, hosted by TV journalist Luis
Javier de San Borodin.
       "The family observed the strange luminous object the
evening of February 19, and it hovered over the sea
(Atlantic Ocean--J.T.) for around an hour.  According to
the eyewitnesses, the UFO remained immobile in the sky
during this time and then disappeared completely."  (See
NotiOVNI for March 2, 2003.  Muchas gracias a Daniel Munoz
para esas noticias.)


UFO FLAP SWEEPS BRAZIL

       The Distrito Federal in central Brazil is now in the
midst of a UFO flap.
       The first sighting in the D.F., which is home to
Brasilia, the capital of the large South American country,
took place on Tuesday, February 4, 2003 "when a UFO
hovered 30 meters (100 feet) away from a witness."
       Four days later, on Saturday, February 8, 2003, "a
silver UFO 3 meters (10 feet) in diameter was hovering in
the air" in a rural district of the Distrito Federal "just
a few meters off the ground."
       On Saturday, March 1, 2003, "at 10:15 p.m., Aurezio
Galo, 33, who lives in Gama Leste, D.F., (Brazil), 45
kilometers (27 miles) east of Brasilia, was looking to the
sky, searching for stars, when he saw a strange light
flying slowly.  He then fetched his binoculars to observe
more clearly and saw that the light was actually a round
object with red, orange and white colors around it.  It
seemed that the object pulsated and rotated on its (own)
axis at the same time.  Aurezio called in his older son,
Pedro Luiz, age 9, to see the UFO also.  Both observed the
movements of the object until it disappeared from view.
The event lasted about four minutes.  According to the
witnesses, the object did not emit any sound nor did it
alter its speed."
       On Saturday, March 8, 2003, at around 6:30 p.m., "a
UFO was sighted in Maceio," a large port city in the state
of Alagoas in northern Brazil.
       "The UFO crossed the sky over the city, heading east
towards the South Atlantic.  Moving at high speed, it
presented a luminous aura that pulsed at regular intervals
of once every 10 seconds.  At the heart of the aura was a
misty blue and yellow object of limited intensity.  The
UFO moved in a zigzagging trajectory and remained in view
for approximately one minute."
       Maceio is located about 1,050 kilometers (630 miles)
northeast of Rio de Janeiro.  (Muito obrigado a Thiago
Luiz Tichetti e Paulo Silva Countinho para esos casos.)


UFO ACTIVITY INCREASES
IN ARGENTINA

       On Tuesday and Wednesday nights, February 25 and 26,
2003, four luminous UFOs hovered repeatedly over the
Parque Chacabuco in Buenos Aires, the capital of
Argentina.
       "The first sighting was on Tuesday, February 25, at
8:52 p.m.," ufologist Ricardo E. D'Angelo reported.  "The
UFOs appeared from and then departed to the southeast,
over the Rio de la Plata.  The maneuvers of the UFOs
lasted all night."
       "I saw intense flashes--pulses of blue light--from my
apartment balcony, which seemed to be directly above the
Parque Chacabuco.  During the second night, Wednesday,
February 26, blue flashes were seen during a period of
five to six hours.  On this occasion, the four UFOs
retreated due south."
       On Thursday, March 6, 2003, at 7:35 p.m., a UFO was
seen in Rufino, a town in Argentina's Santa Fe province,
located 200 kilometers (120 miles) west of Buenos Aires.
       "Several individuals who were at a motorcycle
racetrack at the Ben Hur Sports Club, located in
southeastern Rufino, noticed a strange white light moving
over the city from the south and heading northward.
Witnesses testified that the light was traveling lower
than the flight altitude at which aircraft normally fly
over the city.  It was brighter than a star and traveled
horizontally with regard to the ground at high speed.  At
a given moment during the trajectory, it vanished."
(Muchas gracias a Ricardo E. D'Angelo, Norberto Mollo y
Juan Jose Mecchi para esos informes.)


NEW UFO FLAP BREAKS OUT
IN NORTHERN CHILE

       "Northern Chile has begun witnessing a new wave of
UFO sightings."
       "On Sunday, March 2, 2003, many people on the streets
of Calama," a small city north of Antofagasta, "saw a
bright object fly across the city."
       "Another similar object appeared the following
morning," Monday, March 3, 2003.  "Many skeptics believed
that it was a weather balloon.  However, this object was
very bright and appeared to suddenly change speed and
direction."
       Calama was the site of hundreds of UFO sightings in
2001 and 2002.
       "The first flying object was seen in different parts
of Calama, as well as in (nearby) San Pedro de Atacama,
near Ruta (Route) CH-25.  Many residents saw the bright
object near the airport, flying so fast that it
'disappeared.'  Neverthless, the object reappeared again
several times and in different locations.  Many
eyewitnesses had time to get their binoculars to get a
better look at it."
       "A local television channel began broadcasting live
images of the object at approximately 3:30 p.m." on
Sunday, February 23, 2003.  The live video coverage ended
at 5:30 p.m."
       "A young boy said that he saw a similar object on
Tuesday, February 11, 2003.  He described the UFO as
looking 'like an eye.'  The boy claims that he saw the
bright object as he was standing outside of his house.
According to him, the sighting lasted three minutes.
During an interview with the Centro UFO de Calama (Spanish
for Calama UFO Center--J.T.), the boy indicated that the
object flew at a slow speed from north to south.  The
object later disappeared into what he called an S-shaped
cloud or contrail."
       "On Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 6:55 a.m., while
waiting at a bus stop, two labor contractors saw yet
another similar object.  One of the gentlemen, Omar
Acevedo, was interviewed by the Centro UFO de Calama.  He
described the object as 'flying very slow.'  It was seen
at about 10 kilometers (6 miles) from the hills on the
west side of Calama.  According to Acevedo, it was a
yellow sphere which moved from south to north in an area
where no commercial airplanes fly.  He is absolutely sure
it was no airplane."
       Also that Saturday, "at 3 p.m., Roberto Troncoso
Rodriguez, 20, an asphalt plant worker, reported seeing
another bright object on the south side of Calama.  He was
among ten other eyewitnesses at the asphalt plant who
reported seeing the same object.  Roberto said the silver-
colored object appeared to be 'spinning on its own axis.'
The object stayed spinning in the same direction for a few
minutes--without traveling in any direction."
       "On Monday, February 24, 2003, at 9:35 p.m., a UFO
described as 'spherical in shape and bright yellow' but
'did not appear to emit flashes or any kind of light
patterns' was seen near the Calama Hills by a warehouse
employee named Enrique Cortez.  However, this particular
object seemed to change colors from red to yellow
approximately every 10 seconds."  (Muchas gracias a Jaime
Ferrer y Mario Andrade del Centro UFO de Calama y tambien
a Dr. Virgilio Sanchez Ocejo de UFO Miami para esos
informes.)


EVIDENCE SHOWS COLUMBIA's
LEFT TIRES EXPLODED

       "All six tires from the shuttle Columbia have been
found, revealing especially intense damage to the left
wheels--a finding that could indicate the orbiter's
destruction stemmed from problems in the left wheel well,
investigators said Tuesday," March 4, 2003.
       "Board members said they are examining the debris for
clues about how the shuttle melted and sprayed molten
metals as it broke up.  Chemical analysis has found more
molten aluminum on the orbiter's left side than on the
right, consistent with other evidence that the breakup
started in that area of the shuttle."
       "Investigators also said the shuttle's left tires
sustained more damage than those on the right--a finding
that could mean a leak of superhot air caused the left
wheels to blow up."
       "'The blowing of these tires would likely have been a
very catastrophic event, so it couldn't have occurred
until very late (in the flight--J.T.),' investigation
board member Roger Tetreault said Tuesday at a news
conference in Houston."
       "The charred state of much of the wreckage is making
it difficult to determine what might have caused the
accident and what was simply a result of the (space)
ship's disintegration.  Although investigators said it is
unclear what caused the damage they are seeing, the debris
should help pinpoint where hot plasma first breached the
shuttle's heat-resistant tiles."
       "'What we have to do is follow the heat,' Tetreault
said, 'Our job is just beginning.'"
       "One focus of the investigation is a piece of debris
from the frame of the shuttle's left landing gear door
that could reveal whether superhot air breached the wheel
well during flight."
       "Tetreault also described deposits of aluminum and
stainless steel found on the inside of carbon panels that
were meant to protect the leading edge of the shuttle's
left wing."  (See the Chicago Tribune for March 5, 2003,
"Tires leave clues on shuttle breakup," page 5.)
(Editor's Note:  UFO Roundup first looked into the
possibility of a tire explosion causing the spacecraft
disaster immediately after the loss of Columbia on
Saturday, February 1, 2003.  See UFO Roundup, volume 8,
number 6 for February 5, 2003, "Accident or shootdown?
The Columbia mystery," page 4.)


ITALIAN UFO AUTHOR DIES

       Italian author Marcello Coppetti, 76, passed away
recently.  Sr. Coppetti was a lifelong editor, journalist
and "an author of many books about political affairs,
secret agents, Freemasonry and mysteries in Italy."
       Twenty-five years ago, Sr. Coppetti began writing
about UFOs, collaborating with the Italian magazine Il
Giornale dei Misteri "in which he engaged in a long series
of articles" insisting that "UFOs were secret weapons."
       In 1979, he published his first book on the subject,
UFO: Arma segreta (Publicazione Mediterranee, Milano).
       A year later, in 1980, he published a second book,
UFO in Italia (Boncampagni, Conti, Lamperi e Sani,
Milano), documenting sightings in Italy throughout the
centuries.  (See the Italian newspapers La Nazione and Il
Resto di Carlino for February 15, 2003.  Grazie a Edoardo
Russo e Renzo Cabassi di CISU per questo rapporto.)


  From the UFO Files...

1948: WINGED WONDERS

       The year 1948 is usually remembered as the end of the
"Roswell flap," with its legions of silver discs crossing
the skies worldwide.  But some strange entities were
sighted during that period, too, and none stranger than
the trio who appeared in Longview, Washington state, USA.
       On April 9, 1948, James Pittman, Mrs. Viola Johnson
and several other workers trooped out of the laundry
building where they were employed.  People lit their
cigarettes or dropped a dime in the Coca-Cola machine,
eager to savor their fifteen-minute break.
       Suddenly, Pittman and Mrs. Johnson heard "a sound like an
airplane engine."
Looking up, they saw three humanoid forms flying in
formation over Longview.  The "men" had angelic wings
sprouting from their shoulder blades.  But unlike an
angel's wing, these were dark, not white.
       "The witnesses could not make out arms but saw
dangling legs and thought that the aerobats were attired
in dark flying suits with helmets."
       "The (three) aviators then circled the city of
Longview several times."
       Pittman and Mrs. Johnson described the trio as
"birdmen."
       Another witness said they reminded him "of that
Hawkman guy in the funnybooks."
       The "birdmen" did not interact with the people on the
ground but merely flew out of visual range.
       Longview, Wash. is on Highway 4, on the north bank of
the Columbia River, located 45 miles (72 kilometers)
north-northwest of Portland, Oregon and about 40 miles (64
kilometers) south of Chehalis, Wash.  (See the book Weird
America by Jim Brandon, E.P. Dutton, New York, N.Y., 1978,
page 232.)

       Well, that's it for this week.  Join us next time for
more UFOnews from around the planet Earth, brought to you
by "the paper that goes home--UFO Roundup."  See you next
week!

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2003 by Masinaigan Productions, all
rights reserved.  Readers may post news items from UFO
Roundup on their websites or in news groups provided that
they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list
the date of issue in which the item first appeared.


E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com>
or use the Sighting Report Form at:

http://www.ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Website comments: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>

UFOINFO: http://www.ufoinfo.com

Official Archives of UFO Roundup, AUFORN Australian
UFO Reports and Experiences, UFO + PSI Magazine, plus
archives of Filer's Files, Oz Files, UFO News UK and
UFO Sightings Italia.








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   Mar > Mar 12

                         03-13-97 Arizona Sightings

From: Tom King <tomking2030@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 16:02:36 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 11:21:37 -0500
Subject: 03-13-97 Arizona Sightings


Hello List,

I have made a semi-official March 13, 1997 website. By semi-
official I mean it was made by data by Mike Fortson (8:30
witness) and myself (10:00 witness).

After 6 years we believe the 8:30 event can't be explained by
military, holograms, or anything else conventional and is a real
UFO event. The 10:00 pm event which I videotaped were most
likely flares dropped by the military as a diversion to debunk
the sighting 90 minutes earlier.

I'm still loading more stuff on this complex sighting every few
days and working on more 3D simulations of what the boomerang
looked like to some people.

I plan on having a LiveCam on 3-13-97 from my house if I get my
Win98 machine rebuilt in time.

Here is a direct link:

http://www.ufovideo.com/march13/830.php


Thanks,

Tom King
www.ufovideo.com








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   Mar > Mar 12

                           03-13-97 Phoenix Media

From: Tom King <tomking2030@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 16:13:58 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 11:37:46 -0500
Subject: 03-13-97 Phoenix Media


Hello List,

Here is some local Phoenix, Arizona, radio you might be interested.
You can listen via the Web from your location.

For the record I don't recall Linda Moulton Howe doing any
investigation in the Phoenix Lights. She tape recorded a couple
interviews for the Art Bell show. I wouldn't call that
'investigating' and I don't think it warrants speaking with the
media as an authority on the subject. It's simply shameless self
promotion for their personal glory. Does she ever turn down a
media interview? Might as well bring in Hoagland, and the rest
of the bandwagoneers that don't have a clue as to what happened
that night.


Tom King

-----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.journeyswithmarklewis.com/showinfo.php

JOURNEYS with Mark Lewis Presents
The Phoenix Lights with Jim Dilettoso

 From 2-4pm, this Sunday, March 16th, 'Journeys with Mark Lewis'
presents an afternoon lecture on the Phoenix Lights with Jim
Dilettoso at the Southwest Institute of Healing Arts at 1100
East Apache in Tempe.

Dilettoso's firm, Village Labs, was the clearinghouse for video
of the event and he will show us the video he has of the Phoenix
Lights and take your questions as well.

Mark Lewis will be on hand as moderator and both he and Jim
Dilettoso look forward to seeing you this Sunday at the
Southwest Institute of Healing Arts.

   Date... Sunday March 16
   Time... 2:00 - 4:00 pm
   Place... Southwest Institute of Healing Arts
   Place... 1100 East Apache in Tempe
   Fee.... $10 donation at the door

On March 13th 1997 a strange phenomenon traversed the skies of
Arizona. The UFO became known as the Phoenix Lights and was
featured on the front page of USA Today and all of the network
newscasts because of the enormity of the craft and its
mysterious origin.

This coming Saturday March 15th we will devote the entire two
hours to discussing just what happened on that March night six
years ago.


Linda Moulton Howe

Linda Moulton Howe of Earthfiles.com will be joined by Peter
Davenport of the National UFO Reporting Center and we will also
talk with Dr. Lynne, a woman who not only witnessed the lights
but has written a book about her experiences as well.

Joining our roundtable discussion on the Phoenix Lights will be
Richard Price, who wrote the cover story for USA Today that sent
this event over the top internationally. Also joining us will be
Jim Dilettoso and Michael Tanner of Village Labs who examined
the tapes of the event and set the timeline by interviewing the
multiple eyewitnesses to the Phoenix Lights.

Don't miss this riveting look at the Phoenix Lights!









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   Mar > Mar 12

                   Re: Cancellation - Important - Gevaerd

From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 12:20:02 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 11:57:19 -0500
Subject: Re: Cancellation - Important - Gevaerd


 >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 01:16:47 EST
 >Subject: Re: Cancellation - Important

 >>From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
 >>To: Whitley Strieber <whitley@strieber.com>
 >>Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 20:31:41 -0300
 >>Subject: Cancellation - Important

 >>Dear Whitley Strieber, program Dreamland:

 >>After consulting some friends in the USA and in Brazil, I have
 >>decided to write to you to request that you totally disconsider
 >>and completely delete my segment of your next show, which should
 >>be aired by internet on March 15, 2003. Please, simply erase the
 >>tape with my interview and don't use in part or whole, or any of
 >>my quotes and talks to anything at all, written or broadcast.


<snip>

 >Could you share with us exactly how the alleged hoax was done?
 >I am sure Listers would be interested.

Robert, I assume that you are asking about this new hoax that is
being supported at www.earthfiles.com - that of an alleged crash
of a UFO? If so, I have sent some short reports, I wrote at the
time about it, to translation. They will be ready soon and
immediately posted here.

At the time of the alleged crash I was at the place with a TV
crew and absolutely nothing happened. I talked to many people in
the area, I analyzed the perimeter, nothing. Not a single rock
blasted. The trees that the hoaxer claims that were damaged
'appeared' several days after he announced the alleged
explosion, and at a totally different location than he
previously claimed. The vets that examined the calves that were
allededly blinded by the blast didn't find anything at all.

The perpetrator - for the cameras - said the the crash had the
explosion of an atomic bomb, while his friend, who watched the
same thing, said - also for the cameras - that the "blast" was
absolutely silent. What a difference... The local sheriff didn't
even file a report, as absolutely nothing could be seen... I
have it all covered.


A. J.








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                  Strange Light In Sky A Meteor Or Was It?

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 13:02:05 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 13:02:05 -0500
Subject: Strange Light In Sky A Meteor Or Was It?


Source: Thunder Bay Chronicle Journal, Ontario

http://www.chroniclejournal.com/story.shtml?id=16025

Strange Light In Sky A Meteor Or Was It?

By Kris Ketonen - The Chronicle-Journal

March 11, 2003

A Lakehead University professor says the strange light seen in
Thunder Bay's skies Saturday was a meteor, but some residents
believe there was more to it.

Stephen Kissin, a geology professor at Lakehead and member of
the Meteorites and Impacts Advisory Committee to the Canadian
Space Agency, said reports of the ball of flame with the long,
smokey trail are consistent with the many meteors that crash to
earth each year.

A Lydia Avenue resident - who wished to remain nameless _ was
one of the witnesses to the night's astral event. She was
sitting in her living room between 7 and 8 p.m., and happened to
glance out the west-facing main windows. And that's when she saw
it.

It was rectangular, she said, with an orange, with an orange
glow. It moved very fast as it streaked westward.

"It was too big to be a plane, that's why I noticed it," she
said yesterday, adding it also "moved too fast to be a plane."

The woman didn't hear the loud bang reported by residents near
Finmark road, but her television was on at the time, so the bang
may have been drowned out. The woman couldn't guess as to how
high up the object was. The woman's grandson also witnessed the
flight, while her husband got a look at the plume of smoke left
behind it.

Kissin said the smoke was actually a dust trail. The woman said
the dust remained for about an hour, which Kissin said is
possible, depending on the wind.

"It sounds like it's an isolated meteor sighting," Kissin said.
"It was definitely down in the lower atmosphere if it's creating
a sonic boom, and leaving behind (a dust trail). That's
certainly very typical."

However, the object's glow suggests it was still fairly high up.

Meteors usually travel between 20 and 80 kilometres per second,
Kissin said. The sighting indicates the meteor was a small one,
he said, as a very large one of many tonnes wouldn't have been
slowed by the atmosphere and would have crashed to earth in a
matter of a few seconds.

"It wouldn't have been visible for very long," Kissin said. "But
then, of course, you'd hear a huge . . . impact somewhere."

It may be difficult to track the path of Saturday's sighting,
Kissin said.

"You need to have people on both sides of the track," he said.
"If it were going east-west, you'd have to have people that were
on the north side of it and the south side of it in order to get
an accurate fix."

A meteor shower wasn't responsible for the sighting, Kissin
said. Meteor showers are actually Earth passing through the tail
of a comet, he said, and the chunks of frozen gas seen
travelling across the sky during a shower burn up if they enter
the atmosphere. There's little stony material in comets.

"Then you get all the UFO reports, because they look really
weird," he said. "You see these white things, and they really go
fast across the sky. They look weird."

Kissin is going to look into the incident. OPP investigated on
the weekend, but didn't turn up anything.

And at least one Thunder Bay resident still believes the
Shabaqua Triangle may have had something to do with it.

Yesterday, Bob Armstrong related a tale told to him by his late
father Vic, who used to be a conductor on a train that carried
pulp wood from Graham eastward to Thunder Bay. The route was
inside the triangle, and they'd often end up travelling at
night, Bob, 68, said.

One night in the mid-1970s, Vic was riding in the caboose as the
train passed through the Raith flats, between Graham and Raith.
Outside, he noticed what he described as a fireball travelling
alongside the train. It was going about the same speed, but was
some distance away.

Suddenly, the ball sped up and pulled away from the train, all
before Vic had a chance to wake up the slumbering brakeman.

When Vic returned to town, he told his son what happened. But he
wondered what the point of telling anyone else would be, since
it's unlikely anyone would believe him.

But Bob _ who said he's heard of several such sightings in the
area _ believed him.

"Dad wasn't the type to exaggerate," Bob said. "He told things
as he saw them."


[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]







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   Mar > Mar 12

                          Filer's Files #11 -- 2003

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 12:22:22 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 13:04:55 -0500
Subject: Filer's Files #11 -- 2003


FILER'S FILES #11 -- 2003 Skywatch Investigations.
George A. Filer, Director Mutual UFO Network Eastern
March 12, 2003,  Majorstar@aol.com
Webmaster: Chuck Warren
My website is at: http://www.georgefiler.com

Sponsored by: http://www.filer.unfranchise.com


UFO SIGHTINGS EXPECTED TO INCREASE

The purpose of these files is to report the UFO eyewitness and
photo/video evidence that occurs on a daily basis around the
world and in space. This report includes a wave of UFOs in the
northeast, a prediction of a UFO wave and a New Hampshire UFO
chased, Connecticut flashing lights, Massachusetts oval craft,
New Jersey giant hang glider and cylinder, Maryland abduction,
North Carolina egg, Georgia object with lights spinning, Alabama
floating bell, Illinois cylinders flies over at 300 feet,
California circles split, Oregon abductions, Washington UFOs
over Navy Bases, Canadian disc sightings remain high, Strange
red light in Alaska, Argentina chevron, English cone flies over
at 300 feet altitude, Scotland fireflies, and Netherlands
maneuvering light changes color. How to stay younger.

UFO SIGHTINGS FLYING HIGH STARTING SATURDAY

BOW, New Hampshire - If you see little green men on St.
Patrick's Day, they're more likely to be extraterrestrials than
leprechauns. At least that's the prediction of UFO researcher
Donald Johnson, Ph.D., who claims there will be a rash of
sightings starting Saturday, March 15, peaking March 25 and
lasting throughout spring.  He says 47 years of UFO research in
his UFOCAT files suggest that sightings seem to happen on a 42-
day cycle and peak every 61 months. Places like Denmark, Japan
and Australia will get busy while, San Diego; Columbia,
Missouri; and Brownsville, Texas, will be the hot spots in the
US. Johnson is asking anyone who sees a UFO to photograph it and
send it to the Center for UFO Studies for analysis. Thanks to
Don Johnson, ufocat@CUFOS.ORG

NASHUA NH.-- The witness walks his dogs every morning before
work around five o'clock and often sees a satellite or two,
traveling a straight and steady path. On February 27, 2003, I
was amazed to see two objects traveling one behind the other, a
good distance apart, at a low altitude. There was no sound that
I could detect and the objects maintained a steady glow -- with
no blinking lights. Above the objects and around the objects, at
a much higher altitude were twelve other objects that I thought
were Air Force jets. They maneuvered like jets and had blinking
lights that pulsated regularly. The jets seemed to be circling
the two other objects, but keeping a distance. I watched this
spectacle for about four minutes until they disappeared. Before
I saw this spectacle, the lights on the interior of my locked
car were on when I was at the top of my stairway with my two
dogs. As I walked down the stairs, towards the car, the lights
went out. I believe that the two objects passing over my house
may have been responsible for the lights malfunction. Thanks to:
Peter Davenport [ http://www.ufocenter.com/ ]NUFORC

CONNECTICUT FLASHING LIGHTS GOING AROUND IT.

FARMINGTON -- The witness states that on February 28, 2003, "We
were ice skating at about 8:30 PM, when we noticed three lights,
white, red and white flashing about every second in a rotating
circle pattern. It seemed to be in a circle but we couldn't see
the outline of the craft. There was no sound as it moved about
the speed of a small plane but in an erratic curve path across
the sky. [ http://www.ufocenter.com/ ]NUFORC

NEW YORK THREE LIGHTS IN TRIANGULAR FORMATION

HAUPPAUGE, Long Island -- On Thursday evening February 20, 2003,
at about 9:00 PM, my girl friend and I were chatting in the car
with her head on my lap, looking up at me and out the window.
She suddenly asks me "What's that? Then she started pointing
directly overhead at moving stars. I got out of the car and
noticed three star like objects for thirty seconds moving in the
sky. They were just as bright as the other stars in the sky,
traveling in a triangular pattern. There was one in the front
and two in the back in a triangular shaped pattern. It was
moving slow enough to see for over a minute and the one on the
left side moved diagonaly towards the leading light. It almost
touched then went back to it's original position. Twenty seconds
later the objects were at about a 60 degree angle, when I
started noticing two other fainter lights appearing along side
the two brighter lights on the sides. Now the objects were at
about a 45 degree angle heading north. There were a total of 5
or 6 lights visible, when the original three lights started to
dim as the other lights became brighter, then they all started
to fade one by one at 9:32 PM. My girl friend saw eight lights
overhead initially. Thanks to: Peter Davenport [
http://www.ufocenter.com/ ]NUFORC

NEW JERSEY GIANT HANG GLIDER AND CYLINDER

Todd writes, I read in Filer's Files #9 about a large kite/hang
glider in Kenilworth, New Jersey. The dimensions of the kite as
described struck a chord with me since I'm an avid kite flier
and have large kites. The kite as described sounds like a kite I
own that is approximately 19.5" feet across by ten feet high. It
has an articulated Easton Carbon fiber frame and is capable of
producing some very prodigious lift if the wind is moving.  The
Great Big Kite (GBK) was designed for aerial photography or
doing stunts and can be flown as a single line kite. I'm sure
prodigious altitude could be attained. The description of the
story makes it sound as if the thing was a self-propelled
steerable hang-glider contraption that could go much farther
than 250 feet away from the person flying it. I can't imagine
what the structure underneath the kite was but maybe it was a
lightweight sheath (neoprene) for all weather aerial photos? The
following large jpeg (http://pod.ath.cx/gbk.jpg) is a picture of
me flying a Colossal Kiteworks. Thanks to Todd

MARYLAND ABDUCTION STORY IN DETAIL.

SILVER SPRING -- The witness states, "This is the truth though
scary." I was in my room grading my students papers at 12 PM, on
February 20, 2003, when I noticed a bright light outside, so I
went out to look and felt a warm sensation come over my body.
The next thing I can remember is being alone on a cold hard
table with people in Doctor like masks above me. I can swear
they were at least 8 feet tall. They were slimy. I knew this
because they touched me in places I'd rather not share. They
stuck a needle in me but for some reason I felt no pain. In the
back ground there were more people that appeared to be the
female versions of the people. The people talked in a foreign
language that I could not be understand because it was a series
of clicks and mumbled speech. The room grew cold and I felt
something being pulled out of me. My appendix I believe. Then I
was knocked out once again. I woke up right where this adventure
had started. I thought it to be a dream but then I felt the scar
on my side. It looked as if someone had split me open with a
machete. It was stitched closed as if a surgeon had performed
the strange operation." (( [ http://www.ufocenter.com/ ]NUFORC
Note: We have inquired whether the witness would be willing to
have the scar examined and investigated. PD)) Thanks to: Peter
Davenport

NORTH CAROLINA EGG BIG BRIGHT LIGHT ON THE TOP

SANFORD -- On February 14, 2003, the witness reports, "My cousin
and I were coming from a dance when I saw a big white bright
light in the sky that looked like a car light. My cousin said
she saw it, too, so I began to slow down and rolled down my car
window. It was shaped like an egg or oval with a light on top
shining upward. When I stopped the light went out and many
little lights came on in red, blue, green yellow, and white.
They started to blink then fade in and out. Even with the lights
out, I could still see the big shape in the sky for about ten
minutes even though it was raining just a little. This is my
second time seeing an UFO. Thanks to: Peter Davenport [
http://www.ufocenter.com/ ]NUFORC

GEORGIA OBJECT WAS SPINNING FOR ABOUT 15 MINUTES.

DALLAS -- The witness happened to look out his window at 2:00
AM, on February 23, 2003, and saw an unusually bright star in
the western sky. This one appeared to have been spinning with
red, yellow, blue, and white colors. I called my husband and he
came and thought it was a star. We both went out side with a
video camera and taped it. All of the dogs were barking as it
was the only object in the sky and it hovered for about fifteen
minutes. Thanks to: Peter Davenport.

ALABAMA FLOATING BELL SHAPED OBJECT

HILLSBORO -- On February 13, 2003, we were driving along a dirt
road in the middle of cotton fields for a joy ride and observed
an orange glow behind us following at a distance. Our headlights
were dimming by themselves, and the car felt like it was held to
the ground by a magnet and didn't want to move. We turned around
at 10 PM, and affirmed that there was no light source that we
could see. We turned around and after a few seconds the orange
glow was again following us. In the meantime, we saw a circle
from the ground which encircled our view of the moon. There were
thick wispy clouds blowing in quickly. We went around a curve in
the road and my friend said, "Oh my God, look at this, you're
missing it! I jumped out of the car. Flying fifty yards away and
descending to the height of the treetops was a bell shaped
object completely covered in round white lights, separate but
close together. The light was a pure white with the effect of
silver mixed in. The object floated slowing just beneath the
treetop, and then started ascending. It flew off to the right
across the trees toward Highway 20. The object wobbled as
hovered and started ascending. The object was completely silent.
I grabbed my binoculars and it seemed to be alive, like a living
flying self illuminated object. I am pondering if it was an
angel or UFO? Thanks to: Peter Davenport [
http://www.ufocenter.com/ ]NUFORC

FLORIDA SILVER METALLIC OBJECT ABOVE CRANE

MIAMI BEACH -- My husband called me on March 3, 2003, he is a
crane operator and was looking up at the crane and was saw some
type of object in the sky at 9:35 AM. He was still watching and
he called all excited and asked me to turn on the news to see if
it had been reported. He pointed it out to several workers and
no one knew what it was. He said, "It was a silver metallic
color and periodically there was red and he was ABSOLUTELY sure
it was not a jet. At arm's length his thumb could cover it. He
has had more than this sighting being that he works outdoors,
but this one really excited him as it flew very slow west to
east. Thanks to: Peter Davenport [ http://www.ufocenter.com/
]NUFORC

ILLINOIS CYLINDERS PASS AT 300 FEET ALTITUDE

DOWNERS GROVE -- The witness was going home from work on
February 11, 2003, and was about to enter I 355 Expressway at 4
PM, when he saw two objects passing over at around 300 feet
high. One had a cylindrical shape with a circular shape, like a
sphere at the ends. Both objects were dark in color and flying
without lights. The sky was cloudy above these objects. The
second one was flying 500 feet behind and lower then that first
one. Another person, also, saw them and stopped his van in front
of me and turned on his emergency lights so no body would hit us
because there was no room to park. We watched them disappear to
the northeast. I will never forget this experience. This is the
second time I have seen something like this. The first time was
in 1983, in Tampico, Mexico at 4:00 AM, but it was totally
different. This one had a lot of orange and blue lights and a
small red sphere came out straight down

MATTOON -- Witnesses in the area have noticed a light in the sky
almost every night for a month. On February 25, 2003, the
witness reports, "It is scary the way it moved around so
quickly, so I had my friend video tape it." It is the brightest
light in the sky and moved from side to side and up and down. It
looks like a spinning ball of energy. It has been in the sky now
for over two hours. Thanks to: Peter Davenport [
http://www.ufocenter.com/ ]NUFORC

CALIFORNIA CIRCLES SPLIT IN TWO

AMERICAN CANYON -- The witnesses report seeing two craft several
miles from each other at 11:30 PM, on February 22, 2003. The
first one would stop and go, stop and go. Suddenly we saw a
second craft, but it just sat in one place while the other
moved. They both had an orange glow. As the first one stopped
the second one dimmed it's lights then dropped something. It
turned its lights back on, suddenly splitting in two. It
sparkled like glitter, and then disappeared. The second one also
disappeared and that's all we saw. Thanks to: Peter Davenport

OREGON MISSING TIME

VALLEY JUNCTION -- My wife and I left the casino parking lot at
Grande Ronde, Oregon at exactly 10:30 PM, on February 21, 2003,
but we have no memory of how we arrived at the intersection of
99 W and Highway 22 about twelve minutes later, a distance of
maybe 25 miles. The time on our watches, as well as the car's
clock are all the same. The only strange occurrence we noted was
the sound of what can best is described as hundreds of frogs
croaking as we left the casino's parking lot. During the
previous month, we both missed 32 minutes of time on two
separate days, as evidenced by each of our watches showing 32
minutes difference from standard correct time. Since we
corrected the time on both watches, they have worked perfectly.
My wife also has strange marks on her chest and left hand.
Thanks to: Peter Davenport [ http://www.ufocenter.com/ ]NUFORC

WASHINGTON UFOs OVER NAVAL BASES

SUBMARINE BASE BANGOR -- On March 1, 2003, the witness noticed a
very bright white light almost due south of his post 2300 hours
(11 PM). He states, "What attracted my attention was the
intensity of the light and the flashes, not twinkling like a
star as seen through the atmosphere." It was about 30 degrees
above the horizon and did not move and there was no sound. When
I looked at the object through my binoculars, red and blue or
blue/green flashes could be clearly seen. At about 2330, the
object seemed to move away as it got smaller in size and the
intensity diminished until it could not be seen. This process
happened slowly over five minutes as it moved away and dropped
in elevation by one or two degrees. The night was clear and cold
with stars readily visible and just a hint of fog above the
water of Hood Canal. At 2345, the object again became visible
but was further south and west of its prior position at about 25
degrees above the horizon. The object very slowly moved west,
but its change in position was faster than the Earth's rotation.
The flashing lights were still clearly visible and none of other
stars had flashing lights. At 2353 and at about 20 degrees above
the horizon, the object again slowly started moving away until
about 0012 at about 15 degrees above the horizon it finally
faded from sight. It was back the next night at about the same
time but further east and not as intense. All I can say is that
I don't think stars fade out and then return lower in the sky,
fade out, move west and higher in the sky. Thanks to Peter
Davenport [ http://www.ufocenter.com/ ]NUFORC

BREMERTON -- On February 25, 2003, about 7:30 PM, my husband,
going to his vehicle after work looked up and noticed a strange
looking aircraft flying directly over the Puget Sound Naval
Shipyard. The craft had a triangle/chevron shape with one light
at each point of the three points which did not blink, as most
aircraft running lights do. The craft was at an altitude of only
900 feet without sound, and was moving slowly north. There is a
strict no-fly zone in effect over the shipyard and naval base.

BREMERTON -- On February 26, 2003, around 10 PM, my husband
noticed an aircraft hovering over the tops of the trees in the
downtown area of Bremerton. The craft was triangular/chevron
shaped and had 3 lights at each point of the ship. This craft
was unusually low, too low to be an airplane, and its movements
did not fit with any existing technology known today. The ship
was heading south at a stop-and-go pace without sound. This
object was observed for at least five minutes before it
descended vertically-upward into the clouds from a
standstill/hovering position. This is the second night in row
that a similar craft was seen over the Puget Sound Naval
Shipyard.

EVERETT -- In last weeks Filer's Files a sighting was reported
of a disc below a large aircraft on February 24, 2003, sighting
over Olympic Mountains. At 10:15 AM, hundreds of Boeing
employees watched the first 777 ER take of on its first flight.
It was accompanied by a small, silver or white colored "chase
plane", which would have been taking photos of the new airplane.
This could explain the sighting on February 24, 2003, over the
Olympic Mountains. Thanks to: Peter Davenport [
http://www.ufocenter.com/ ]NUFORC .

CANADA THREE DAYLIGHT DISC SIGHTINGS

VANCOUVER -- I live in a downtown high-rise on the 16th floor
and was getting ready to watch the Simpson's at 9 PM, when I saw
this flying object over the buildings in front of us on February
12, 2003. I knew it couldn't be a plane because it was so low
and after watching the planes that go around here everyday I've
memorized their flight paths. Second of all the lights in this
craft weren't flickering or blinking, they were just constantly
beaming a hazy sort of weird whitish/yellowish light. At first I
didn't see the 3 lights on the corners of this triangular craft
until it very slowly and silently hovered towards my building.
Anything made by man that flies only 500 meters away has to make
a sound. I had called my brother and as the craft got closer we
realized that it was no plane, but some sort of triangular craft
as it passed over a couple stories over my building. We saw it's
structure and there was a red light in the middle. I was
astonished and ran for my camera and eventfully found it and
took one lousy picture. Suddenly instead of going on it's
horizontal path it went vertically straight to the skies and
turned into a star.

ELLINGTON -- On February 21, 2003, a 17 year old boy from Prince
Edward Island and his friends saw a bright light that caused
their dogs to go wild. The witness writes, "My four friends and
I started up our skidoos to let them warm up at 11 PM, and we
came inside my house. The street lights and the power to the
house went out and the skidoos stopped. Our two dogs were
yelping, and my mom's cat was hissing at the window. There was a
tremendously bright light in the yard from three objects that
hovered like a yo yo for five minutes. The lights dimmed but
these objects kept changing shape and formation. They went from
circle to a square then triangle formation and they moved up
fast turned on a 90 degree angle like a dime. The cordless phone
wouldn't work and my cell phone kept ringing, but when I
answered there was only static and weird noises. After 25
minutes, the bright light appeared again and these three objects
shot up into the sky. The power went back on, the dogs and cat
settled down. It even left a melted area in the snow of a
triangle with circles on each tip and a strange sign like it
melted the drift of snow.

MILL BAY ON VANCOUVER ISLAND -- Two Alcan Aluminum smelter
employees on February 22, 2003, noticed a large disk shaped
object traveling very low and slowly over the Douglas Channel.
The disc rose up to clear the mountains to the north. The
witnesses stood completely still with their mouths wide open
watching! "They said, "If it moved towards them, they believed
they would have been unable to move". The low flying disc had
large, very bright white lights that shone on the water that lit
up a good sized area and made a portion of the object visible.
No other lights were visible, but after two minutes it gradually
gained altitude to climb up over the mountain. They both knew
for certain that what they were looking at was no normal
aircraft due to it's size, speed and strange shape.

PRINCE RUPERT TO TERRACE, BC -- At 10:30 PM, a couple driving
home 85 kilometers west out of Terrace witnessed a huge object
traveling north across the Skein River on February 22, 2003. The
disk shaped craft was dark and moved very slowly, but had two
large almost rectangular lights that could be seen glowing from
the bottom. The husband wanted to pull over to get a better
look, but his wife was frightened, crying and "insisted" that he
keep going and quickly.

HOUSTON, BC -- Brian Vike reports two local residents stated,
"My buddy and I were traveling along Highway #16 just east of
town on March 3, 2003, at 7:55 AM, during daylight and just
before Perow, they noticed a large object paralleling them along
the highway. They were going 50 kilometers an hour and the
object was 300 to 400 feet away, so they both had a very close
up look at it. Sometimes there were trees between the truck and
UFO which hindered their view, but there was no disturbance in
the trees. The craft was slightly wobbling, like looking through
a heat wave. The UFO looked like an "Air Stream Trailer", and
its size was close to a Greyhound Bus. It was metallic in color,
and no other features could be seen on it. No lights, windows,
nothing! T he object stayed straight across from their truck as
they drove along! The passenger rolled down the window to see if
he was able to hear any sound, but none was heard. After almost
a kilometer the craft turned slowly away from the highway,
wobbled slightly, sped up, wobbled once again and then shot off
out of sight very quickly.

HBCC UFO Note: Three reports, one coming from Vancouver Island,
Kitimat and in between Terrace & Prince Rupert all on the same
time of a similar craft. Thanks to: Brian Vike Editor: Canadian
Communicator (Paranormal Magazine) hbccufo@telus.net HBCC UFO
Research

ALASKA STRANGE ORANGE LIGHT

ANCHORAGE -- My sister-in-law called us outside on a very clear
February 27, 2003, to look at a strange bright orange/red light
moving in the sky directly overhead at 9:10 PM. At first we
thought it might be a plane but the object suddenly stopped
motionless and then reversed direction." I ran to get the
binoculars and saw what appeared to be multiple lights rotating.
After observing it for several more minutes we saw a small
object separate and move away from the bigger object. The object
then faded in and out then just disappeared. [
http://www.ufocenter.com/ ]NUFORC

BRAZIL CIGAR SHAPED CRAFT FLASHED WHITE/BLUE LIGHT

RIO DE JANEIRO -- At 2:40 AM, the sky was clear on March 4,
2003, when the witness saw a craft moving slowly about the speed
of a Goodyear balloon and stated, "I estimate the cigar shaped
object was two miles from my 22nd floor apartment with a
flashing white light on top center, and a red light at each end,
and a red light at the bottom below the white light. Every few
seconds there would be a blaze of extremely bright intense
white/blue light that would stay lit for a few seconds. It
covered a very large area of the craft, at least 50% and when it
switched off you could see some darker "yellowish" lights as if
interior lights. I lost sight of it as it passed beyond my
apartment building.

ARGENTINA ORANGE CHEVRON SHAPED

BUENOS AIRES -- On February 25, 2003, at 10:30 PM, It was a dim
orange light, which I first thought it was a comet or "meteor"
by its fast movement, but when it turned to its right it had
many stacked horizontal lines forming a chevron like shape. The
object was fast moving and turned to the right, and then
disappeared in four seconds. The night was clear while viewing
the object, no clouds were in the vicinity.

RUFINO -- On March 6, 2003 at 7:35 PM, several individuals who
were at the motorcycle racetrack of the Ben Hur Sports Club, in
Santa Fe Province, noticed a strange white light moving north
over the city. The light was lower than aircraft normally fly
over the city, it was much brighter than a star and suddenly
vanished. Thanks to the Institute of Hispanic Ufology (IHU).
Translation (C) 2003. Investigadores del Fen=F3meno Ovni de Rufino

SCOTLAND STAR SHONE BRIGHT WITH BUZZING FIREFLIES

I got up to let the dog out on February 21, 2003, at 2:20 AM,
and my vision was drawn instantly to a star, that was moving
vertically up and down. I thought it was because I was tired,
but then 4 or 5 little lights appeared like fireflies buzzing
around the bottom half of the object for twenty seconds and then
disappeared. The 'star' was unlike the others and seemed as if
it was revolving. Then a horizontal light appeared at the bottom
of the 'star' for 10 to 15 seconds on two occasions. The firefly
objects appeared four times. I fled to get the camcorder, but
the sky clouded over before I could film it. Thanks to: Peter
Davenport  [ http://www.ufocenter.com/ ]NUFORC

ENGLAND CONE MOVES BY AT 300 FEET ALTITUDE

SHEFFIELD -- On March 3, 2003, there was a cone of light like
Apollo 13 returning to earth, traveling at only 300 feet moving
up and slow with no lights or sound. It was moving south at
12:15 PM. This is my first sighting ever, and I never believed
in UFOs until now. The night was very clear, I just wish I had a
camera to prove the sighting. The shape was amazing to see as I
only ever see such things on TV. Thanks to Peter Davenport [
http://www.ufocenter.com/ ]NUFORC

NETHERLANDS MANEUVERING LIGHT-CHANGES COLOR

BUNSCHOTEN -- I looked from the roof window to the east on
February 25, 2003, and saw some kind of a star flickering
different colors of light. I thought it was kind of weird so I
quickly got my binoculars and watched the star. I thought it
stood still, but it moved very slowly up and down for fifteen
minutes.

UFO DEFENSE TACTICS, WEATHER SHIELD TO CHEMTRAILS.

Dear George, Simple words of thanks are not sufficient to
express appreciation for your efforts in my behalf.  The
coverage and compliment concerning my book were outstanding in
this week's Filers Files. You did a great job of putting it all
together, thank you so very much. If the book sells well, you
and the Files deserve the credit. Within four hours of my
receipt of Filer's Files today, I had a request by E-mail to
discuss the book contents on Satellite Radio with Hilly Rose.
The request can be attributed to the publicity you put forth.
UFO activity in the NW increased rapidly last month, there was a
notable sighting over the Puget Sound Naval Shipyard on Feb.
25th, a strict no-fly zone. The triangular craft hovered at 1000
feet for five minutes, without sound (Davenport, 2003). Whenever
I drive to that area of Bremerton in clear weather, chemtrails
are prevalent. the Shipyard is about 10 miles south of the
Bangor Submarine Base and 20 miles south of my home (all three
on the Kitsap Peninsula, west of Seattle). A triangular craft
was sighted again the next night over Bremerton. After five
minutes, it ascended rapidly from a hover position. George, your
support has been exemplary! Thanks to Annamarie.

A. K. Johnstone, Ph.D., explores with evidence, the creation of
a weather shield to deter UFOs from entering earth's atmosphere,
by manipulating weather elecotromagnetically and with
chemtrails. Numerous UFO sightings are examined from a
scientific viewpoint, including EM pulses, and fireballs. Order
illustrated book, $14.95 from Hancock House 1-800-938-1114.

NATURAL CURES OFTEN WORK BETTER THAN DRUGS

Almost every week, I get letters from people who claim to be
suffering from what they call Chemtrail illness generated by jet
engine and auto emissions. I asked my M.D. friend what he would
recommend for toxins in the air. He told me he treats 62
different ailments with amazing success that include all kinds
of allergies, colds, smokers cough, and various breathing
problems caused by pollution. He uses antioxidant nutrients such
as Vitamins E, C, Beta-carotene and CoQ 10 and Isotonix OPC-3.
He considers Isotonix OPC-3 the most powerful antioxidant free
radical scavengers known to man, and one of the greatest
discoveries in history. He has excellent results with
Fibromyalgia and a long list of problems associated with a weak
immune system. If you smoke you can help prevent lung problems
with Isotonix OPC-3 at the Health and Nutrition Store for about
a dollar a day. You can use Visa or MasterCard at: [
http://www.filer.isotonix.com ]Isotonix OPC-3

In addition to OPC-3 I take Prime for anti-aging. To learn more
about the break through in anti-aging and stopping the clock for
a younger, sexier, happier you go to: [
http://filer.primeblends.com ]Anti-aging

The BOOK, "ILLUSTRATED NEWS OF THE UNBELIEVABLE"

Robert Trundle, Ph.D., Professor of Philosophy at Northern
Kentucky University, and I are looking for either a publisher or
an agent to represent our book. Falling into the area of
Nonfiction Paranormal, the book consists of eyewitness reports
and pictures in newspaper format.  Provocative headlines,
straddling the millennium, provide a paradigm for twenty-first
century expectations of paranormal encounters.  Lead articles
are followed by illustrated news of such things as encounters
with angels, Near-Death Experience, alien abductions, alien pet
animals, numerous sexual encounters with extraterrestrials, and
reported contacts with their worlds by government officials.
Though Dr. Trundle's previous books such as "UFOs: Politics, God
& Science" and "Camus' Answer" were published in university
presses for relatively well educated readers, this work is for a
mass audience and is based on reports sent to Air Force
Intelligence Officer Major George Filer.  He is recognized
internationally as a top authority on UFOs, has often appeared
on television, and was one of the prominent officials invited to
speak at The National Press Club on the subject in Washington DC
Also, of possible interest to marketing considerations is that
Filer gets 500,000 hits a month on his paranormal website
Filer's Research Institute.  And exposure includes his weekly
newsletter to tens of thousands of readers.  Our work is wholly
unlike any book on the market.  It has been completed with
forty-eight short chapters, 393 pages, and 100,000 words.
Please contact Major Filer (US Air Force Intelligence, Ret.) or
Trundle@NKU.EDU [ Trundle@NKU.EDU ]Dr. Robert Trundle

WHAT YOU SHOULD KNOW WHEN HIRING A REAL ESTATE AGENT! Learn how
you can obtain the best real estate agent for your needs. To get
a free copy of this report e-mail me at  [ Majorstar@aol.com
]Majorstar@aol.com

THE GREAT UFO/ET CONGRESS OF 2003

Will be held on April 5 & 6, 2003 at The Days Inn, near
Bordentown, New Jersey. Confirmed speakers are: Rick Hilberg,
Anthony & Lynn Volpe, Eugenia Macer-Story, Pierre Bolduc,
Stanton Friedman, Rober VanderClock, Graham Bethune, Rich Dolan,
and Paul Bartholomew See: drufo.org

MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative
reports subscribe to the MUFON JOURNAL. A MUFON membership
includes the Journal and costs only $35.00 per year. To join
MUFON or to report a UFO go to http://www.mufon.com/. To ask
questions contact MUFONHQ@aol.com or HQ@mufon.com. Mention that
I recommended you for membership.

Filer's Files is copyrighted 2003 by George A. Filer, all rights
reserved. Readers may post the COMPLETE files on their Web Sites
if they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list
the date of issue. These reports and comments are not
necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON viewpoint. Send your letters to
Majorstar@aol.com. Sending mail automatically grants permission
for us to publish and use your name. Please state if you wish to
keep your name, address, or story confidential. CAUTION, MOST OF
THESE ARE INITIAL REPORTS AND REQUIRE FURTHER INVESTIGATION.

Regards,

George Filer

http://www.georgefiler.com









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Mar > Mar 13

                      Extrasolar Atmosphere Discovered

From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk>
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 02:00:03 -0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 06:47:24 -0500
Subject: Extrasolar Atmosphere Discovered


 >From Nature magazine:

Extrasolar Atmosphere

Planet HD209458b is one of only two extrasolar planets currently
known to pass in front of the parent star in relation to
observers on Earth. This orbit conveniently allows astronomers
to make detailed studies of these otherwise elusive bodies,
including the search for an atmosphere. Observation of neutral
sodium absorption during one of these passes has provided
evidence of a dense lower atmosphere, and now atomic hydrogen
absorption suggests that there is an extended hydrogen-rich
upper atmosphere too. This could be the signature of a hot
planet, similar to Jupiter, which may be losing hydrogen at a
rate of 100 million tons per second.

Full story at:

http://www.nature.com/cgi-taf/DynaPage.taf?file=/nature/journal/v422/n6928/full/
nature01448_fs.html









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Mar > Mar 13

                         New Rendlesham Documentary

From: James Easton <voyager@jeaston.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 02:52:49 -0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 06:50:30 -0500
Subject: New Rendlesham Documentary


New Rendlesham Documentary

UpDates subscribers might be interested in the following,
especially central participant John Burroughs' verbatim
acknowledgements therein:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UFORL/message/1523


Best wishes,

James Easton.
E-mail: voyager@jeaston.com





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Mar > Mar 13

             Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 23:28:11 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 06:54:20 -0500
Subject: Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S


 >From: Colin Stevenson <colin@c2k2.fsworld.co.uk>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 21:37:37 -0000
 >Subject: Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S

 >>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 14:11:33 -0800
 >>Subject: Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S

 >>>From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 21:23:19 +0000
 >>>Subject: Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S

 >>>>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >>>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>>Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 12:14:10 -0800
 >>>>Subject: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S

 >>Hello John:

 >>That makes at least 3 important websites the fellow wrote to. I
 >>think that's a lot of successful work for somebody who cannot
 >>spell, nor parse a sentence, nor distinguish between the subject
 >>line and the body of an email.

 >>Why do I smell a rat?

 >>The seemingly deliberately rough-hewn message I got gave no
 >>details at all about dates, time, place, etc. .. not even the
 >>name of the documentary.

 >>Could this be a test? .. Things like that are sometimes
 >>done by psychology or journalism departments .. (snip)

 >>Best wishes - Larry Hatch

- -

 >Hi Larry and all

 >What has been seen may actually be Rods

 >http://www.roswellrods.com/

 >after a quick read of it

 >Kind regards

 >Colin Stevenson


Hello Colin:

I may have been to harsh about 'Thumper' Subsequent posts seem
to indicate a certain sincerity.

Rods? That sounds like something sandwiched between Mel's Hole
and the latest from Richard Hoagland on the Coast-to-Coast late
night radio show.

If Robert (aka Thumper) ever becomes a radio guest, lets hope he
talks better than he writes.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch

PS: Did we forget about Mel's Hole, the bottomless pit in
Washington State? After secret government agencies took it over,
Mel went out and found another one. Even Art Bell sounded a bit
doubtful about that.








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   Mar > Mar 13

             Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S

From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 12:57:57 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 08:36:54 -0500
Subject: Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S


 >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 23:28:11 -0800
 >Subject: Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S-

<snip>

Just wanted to say that I've been having a few problems with e-
mail and the site, as a result I did not see your original reply
and some others.

So apologies to all if I've missed out on any replies.


Regards,

John,

John Hayes

webmaster@ufoinfo.com

UFOINFO:- http://www.ufoinfo.com

Official Archives for UFO Roundup, AUFORN Australian
UFO Reports and Experiences, UFO + PSI Magazine
plus archives of Filer's Files, Oz Files, UFO News UK
and UFO Sightings Italia.








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   Mar > Mar 13

              Did Roswell Produce A Transistron Or A Transistor

From: John Auchettl <Praufo@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 09:20:14 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 11:05:07 -0500
Subject: Did Roswell Produce A Transistron Or A Transistor


Hi List and EBK,


Another paradox in the life of the PnP transistor.

Just to pre-warn you, very soon there will be a new book out
that will give due credit to two German physicists (Matare &
Welker), strange as it may seem, who independently discovered
the transistor only two months after the Bell Laboratory group
did (Bardeen, Brattain & Shockley). And the Bell story from 1947
to 1956 was and is still in disarray.

Now the odd thing - it was Westinghouse laboratory in Paris, who
got the solution to the same experiment? The book will not give
you any links to the Roswell case so don't ask, but it will show
that the original idea was in "transit". The German group got
their working model up and going in 1952 (Intermetall) a year
before Bell Laboratory did, and that's right - they called the
system a "transistron"!

How close was that!

Now, this information has been killed off for years by many, but
just recently it has again surfaced. The USA - Institute of
Electrical and Electronics Engineers (IEEE) did most of the
cover-up (Why?). If you were in the loop you will remember the
case, but that was a very small loop.

It's a long mixed up story, but another strange case of history
obscured. The Australian link has again been left out in the
book, however the USA story is covered. The public won't get
their copy until next month (I think?).

So meet another paradox in the life of the PnP transistor.


Best regards to you all,


John Auchettl
PRA - Director



Phenomena Research Australia [PRA]
P.O. Box 523, Mulgrave, Victoria, Australia, 3170
Australian & Asia UFO
1961-2003 - 42 YEARS OF RESEARCH SERVICE







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   Mar > Mar 13

                           Secrecy News - 03/13/03

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 09:20:34 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 11:08:13 -0500
Subject: Secrecy News - 03/13/03


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2003, Issue No. 22
March 13, 2003


** BUSH DRAFT EXECUTIVE ORDER: RUNNING IN PLACE
** IN CONGRESS
** CRS ON TIA
** WITTGENSTEIN FOR THE DEFENSE


BUSH DRAFT EXECUTIVE ORDER: RUNNING IN PLACE

The Bush Administration's new draft executive order on national
security classification does not eliminate all constraints on
official secrecy, as some had feared, but neither does it move
beyond the parameters of the Cold War secrecy system into a
truly twenty-first century information policy.

The new Bush draft would generally affirm the single most
important achievement of the 1995 executive order 12958, which
was its aggressive declassification regime for historically
valuable documents that are 25 years old or older. The draft
includes a provision for automatic declassification of 25 year
old documents (Section 3.3) but would defer its effective date
until December 31, 2006. (The looming April 17, 2003 automatic
declassification deadline was the proximate cause for
preparation of the new draft.)

The new draft order would also preserve the Interagency Security
Classification Appeals Panel (ISCAP), which has proven to be an
exceptionally powerful tool for correcting classification abuses
by subjecting them to the scrutiny of an interagency review
panel. The new order would blunt the ISCAP's effectiveness,
however, by permitting the Director of Central Intelligence to
reject Panel rulings unless he is overridden by the President.
(Section 5.3)

The draft directs that "the unauthorized disclosure of foreign
government information is presumed to cause damage to the
national security" and such information would therefore be
presumptively classified, which has not previously been the
case. (Section 1.1 (c))

It would include the new category of "infrastructure"
vulnerabilities as potentially classifiable information (Section
1.4(g)) and it would ease the reclassification of previously
declassified information (Section 1.7(c)).

A copy of the draft executive order was obtained by Secrecy News
and is posted here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/bush/eodraft.html

"It could be a lot worse," several officials spontaneously
agreed. "Keep in mind that this is the Bush Administration we're
talking about, it's post 9/11, and we're about to go to war,"
said one agency official. "It could be a hell of a lot worse."

It could also be a hell of a lot better.

The draft does not touch the roots of dysfunction in the
classification system, which allow agencies to make
extravagantly false classification claims. Strengthening and
expanding the ISCAP review process, rather than curtailing it,
might have been one way to improve the correction of
classification errors and abuses.

More fundamentally, the draft order is a vestige of a Cold War
information policy that is now obsolete and increasingly
counterproductive. The draft, which could have been implemented
without any problem thirty years ago, is simply oblivious to the
implications of the information revolution of the past decade.

Not only do the authors fail to acknowledge the qualitative
distinction between old-fashioned paper records and digital
data, they do not know what Senator Richard Shelby has lately
pointed out (SNews, Feb. 18): namely, that imposing a strict
"need to know" standard of information control can diminish
information's utility and must inevitably exclude many of those
who could productively exploit it -- to the detriment of
national security.


IN CONGRESS

Senator Patrick Leahy (D-VT) and several colleagues introduced
legislation March 12 to narrow the "extraordinarily broad
exemption" from the Freedom of Information Act that was hastily
adopted in the Homeland Security Act last year. "The law that
was enacted undermines Federal and State sunshine laws
permitting the American people to know what their government is
doing," according to Sen. Leahy, who said the new "Restore FOIA
Act" would fix the problem. See:

http://leahy.senate.gov/press/200303/031203.html

Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-OH) "used a rare House procedure known
as a Resolution of Inquiry" to force the Bush Administration to
provide Congress with a copy of the 12,000 page Iraqi
declaration to the United Nations, Rep. Kucinich said in a press
release. Members of Congress who sign a non-disclosure agreement
(which Kucinich deliberately has not) will now be able to view
the classified Iraqi document. See:

http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/oh10_kucinich/030311doc.htm
l

Former Senator Slade Gorton (R-WA), like several others who were
appointed to the new Commission to investigate September 11, has
still not obtained the security clearance he needs in order to
review classified documents. As a result, "the panel is at a
standstill," the Seattle Times reported yesterday. From another
point of view, however, the panel is learning first-hand just
how broken the security clearance apparatus is. See "Gorton
still hasn't received security clearance" by Alex Fryer, Seattle
Times, March 12:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/134651355_gorton
12m.html


CRS ON TIA

The rather complex legal framework that would govern programs
such as the Total Information Awareness data-mining initiative
is helpfully described in a Congressional Research Service
report entitled "Privacy: Total Information Awareness Programs
and Related Information Access, Collection, and Protection Laws"
by Gina Marie Stevens, updated February 14, 2003:

http://www.fas.org/irp/crs/RL31730.pdf


WITTGENSTEIN FOR THE DEFENSE

U.S. District Judge Michael B. Mukasey ruled again this week
that suspected "dirty bomber" Jose Padilla shall be granted
access to an attorney, and he invoked philosopher Ludwig
Wittgenstein (1889 - 1951) to explain a defect in the Justice
Department's argument to the contrary.

"The government's argument summons from obscurity an abstruse
problem -- that because no rule can determine its own
application, it may appear that there can be no binding rule --
  that was picked apart on the philosophical dissecting table
toward the middle of the last century by Ludwig Wittgenstein,
and since has ceased to vex those inclined to contemplate such
matters," Judge Mukasey wrote.

"[T]here is a way of grasping a rule that is not an
interpretation," Judge Mukasey quoted Wittgenstein, triumphantly
and with thrilling erudition.

The text of Judge Mukasey's March 11 ruling in Jose Padilla v.
Donald Rumsfeld is here (see footnote 5):

http://www.nysd.uscourts.gov/rulings/02CV04445_031103.pdf


_______________________________________________

Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to secrecy_news-
request@lists.fas.org with "subscribe" in the body of the
message.

OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

Secrecy News is archived at:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________

Steven Aftergood Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web: www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email: saftergood@fas.org
voice: (202) 454-4691







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   Mar > Mar 13

             Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S

From: Colin Stevenson <colin@c2k2.fsworld.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 15:39:37 -0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 12:03:13 -0500
Subject: Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S


 >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 23:28:11 -0800
 >Subject: Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S-

 >>From: Colin Stevenson <colin@c2k2.fsworld.co.uk>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 21:37:37 -0000
 >>Subject: Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S

<snip>

 >>Hi Larry and all

 >>What has been seen may actually be Rods

 >>http://www.roswellrods.com

 >>after a quick read of it

 >I may have been to harsh about 'Thumper' Subsequent posts seem
 >to indicate a certain sincerity.

 >Rods? That sounds like something sandwiched between Mel's Hole
 >and the latest from Richard Hoagland on the Coast-to-Coast late
 >night radio show.

 >If Robert (aka Thumper) ever becomes a radio guest, lets hope he
 >talks better than he writes.

 >Best wishes

 >- Larry Hatch

 >PS: Did we forget about Mel's Hole, the bottomless pit in
 >Washington State? After secret government agencies took it over,
 >Mel went out and found another one. Even Art Bell sounded a bit
 >doubtful about that.

Hello again Larry and all

As I live in the UK, if Washington is in Mel's hole who am l to
question it?

Wouldn't a bottomless hole reach right through the Earth to the
other side? Someone ought to investigate it as it could be a
faster route for transport. Or is the other bottomless hole he
found on the other side of Earth thus proving his point?

My spell checker doesn't work at all either so part of my
Windows is in Mel's hole too. Maybe the secret government
agencies needed to fit it with a window, or multiple parts of
them in order to make a  >hole <  one.   :-)

Sorry to say, but Rods are real as we see them here and video
them too. They are also associated with the paranormal and
hauntings so we are lead to believe. Many theories and
observations will prove or disprove although from my
observations its somewhere near the truth


col







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   Mar > Mar 13

                      CFI, Podesta/Mattoon & Kecksburg

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 12:03:57 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 12:51:13 -0500
Subject: CFI, Podesta/Mattoon & Kecksburg


Hello All,

Preface:

I have been attempting to raise questions about 'how and why'
the 'Kecksburg case' of 1965 was selected by the folks at CFI
and Podesta/Mattoon and 'who' selected it. I also inquired
about why more of the established, experienced ufologists
were not included/invited to participate in the case selection
process. All the while I have been trying to ask my questions
in a way that does not come off as 'confrontational' or 'non-
supportive' of the effort. Neither of which is true.

So why am I sticking my nose into this?

I have a very personal stake in all of this. I want to see more
projects like this initiated and for them to have the best
possible chance of success. My motives are honest and simple to
understand for anyone who knows me. Because my questions can be
'taken the wrong way' I felt I needed to preface my remarks so
as to avoid negative misinterpretation.

Re: Leslie Kean

Anyone who really cares about this subject knows how very
important it is to have bright, established, and open-minded
journalists on our side in our struggle to learn the truth
regarding the UFO phenomenon. Leslie Kean is one such
journalist. I have tremendous respect for her, for her courage -
  by putting her career and reputation on the line - and for
helping to bring this subject into the mainstream arena in an
intelligent and thoughtful way - via her well written and
informative articles.

I have also had the privilege of meeting Leslie in person and I
can tell you that she is a very sweet person as well. I want to
make sure that Leslie knows that I regard her highly and that
there is no question about my support for the kind of effort
being made by CFI and Podesta/Mattoon. I say all this because I
find that I have to take umbrage at some statements that she has
made in regard to 'how' the Kecksburg case was selected and
'who' was involved in the selection process.

A point needs to be made from the outset:

As terrific a journalist as Leslie is... she is _not_ an
experienced ufological researcher. Upon that point sits the
whole crux of the matter under discussion. I'm not singling out
Leslie either. The same goes for Ed Rothchild of Podesta-Mattoon
and Larry Landsman of the Sci-Fi Channel - they may be great at
what they do for a living but... they are _not_ (I repeat) _not_
UFO researchers. The whole 'problem' here seems to be that they
came up with the Kecksburg case themselves and they did not
invite/include _enough_ experienced ufologists in the case
selection process.

To their credit, they did consult with a 'few.' Good ones too,
Dick Hall, Dick Haines and Ted Roe (of NARCAP) among them. But
it appears that in spite of consulting these good people the
lawyers won out in terms of dictating 'what kind' and 'which'
case was eventually chosen. 'Kecksburg' was chosen by Leslie
Kean, Ed Rothchild and Larry Landsman who, as I already
mentioned are _not_ UFO researchers.

That's a 'problem' because the outcome of this effort will
affect us all. Each time we go to the well, to the government,
we need to be taking our best shot. 'Kecksburg' does not
'fill the bill' on that score. The chances of it being a 'UFO'
case at all are slim, at best.

An e-mail that Leslie wrote to me privately follows. I have her
permission to post it to the UpDates List. I am posting Leslie's
e-mai to me unedited and in it's entirety. I have also written
some responses of my own which appear following her e-mai.

Again, just for the record, I would just like to see this effort
work and for it to have the very best chances for success. We
_all_ have a lot to lose if it fails.

There is much more at stake here than even many of the
principles at CFI and Podesta/Mattoon realize. Maybe there is
still time to remedy this situation and provide them with the
kind of UFO cases they need to succeed.

In that spirit I offer my responses to Leslie's e-mail later on
in this post.

Leslie wrote:


-----

John,

Sorry I took so long to respond to your email. I appreciate your
offer of advice from the experts on the Kecksburg case and other
cases that the Coalition for Freedom of Information (CFI) might
work on.

You asked why CFI (that is Larry Landsman, Director, Special
Projects, SCI FI Channel; Ed Rothschild of Podesta/Mattoon, and
myself) decided on the Kecksburg case. The choice was made
initially for our FOIA initiative, launched last October. This
is how the focus on the case began. The GAO petition drive,
headed by Stan Gordon with our support, is one aspect of a
multi-faceted campaign to get to the bottom of the Kecksburg
case.

Last September, Larry asked me to suggest a FOIA case that would
be suitable for CFI to address and for SCI FI to support. We
were looking for a case that satisfied a list of criteria, which
would ensure that the selected case contained quantifiable,
forensic aspects. The FOIA action could raise the visibility of
the UFO issue in the national media. We felt that if the case
allowed for the possibility of an on-air component by the SCI FI
Channel, this could help make a FOIA initiative even stronger
and further a national discussion of the phenomenon.

These criteria needed to be satisfied:

1. Physical evidence - preferably a crash, or something with
debris or trace evidence suitable for analysis by a lab. This
ties in with CFI's efforts to make the case for scientists being
provided the physical evidence that is now classified.

2. Access to the site for "forensic" expeditions by
archeologists, radiologists or other scientists.

3. A range of living eyewitnesses. (A huge community desiring
answers also exists here.)

4. A compelling narrative.

5. Government involvement in the incident and then withholding
of information about it.

At CFI, which was founded at the same time, the focus was on the
people's right to information. This is why we were able to gain
the support of John Podesta, which has been so important to the
FOIA effort, and to its recognition as something serious. (His
speech at our Oct. 22 press conference is on

http://www.freedomofinfo.org/

It's about the right to information on incidents involving the
question of UFOs, regardless of what the outcome is. The
community in PA concerned with this has been torn apart because
our government has refused to acknowledge that something fell at
all, let alone what the fallen object actually was.

For all these reasons, Kecksburg seemed ideal. There are many
credible witnesses, and it wasn't too long ago but past the 25
year mark. Also, there was one other very important factor: the
more than three decades of work Stan Gordon has put into the
case. He had already done some FOIA work; had done all the work
collecting and investigating witnesses, collecting documents,
etc. And, he had many powerful leads that had not yet been
pursued and compelling information that had not yet been made
public. At the same time, this case is not known by people
outside of UFO circles, yet it is right here in the Eastern US.

Even if the object turns out to be Soviet - and there is enough
evidence to make this a big IF - by litigating the government's
refusal to provide documents on it, and by conducting a GAO
investigation, we hope to be able to learn much about the
procedures and policies governing crash retrievals, about
Project Moon Dust, about the handling of documents, and other
government operations relating to this incident that should shed
light on the issue in general and be useful when pursuing other
cases.

The petition drive and possible GAO investigation are the latest
developments in this effort. Obviously, since we have a petition
drive already public on this, we are not going to drop this and
take on something else! We have support in Washington due to the
efforts of PodestaMattoon and our connection with John Podesta.
The GAO aspect will be handled with sophistication. We are being
taken seriously. Since we also have the services of the
Washington law firm Nobel, Novins and Lamont, we believe we are
in a unique position to take this case a long way, and that we
have a very good chance of including a GAO investigation in the
process, at the right time. We hope that if the GAO
investigation does reveal something, it will open doors to other
similar efforts down the road.

When we were making the decision on this case, finding legal
support and putting the initial FOIA letters together, I was
commissioned to research and write "Science and the Failure to
Investigate Unidentified Aerial Phenomena" by SCI FI for release
at the Oct. 22 press conference. I needed every minute I had to
do that in a very short time, and this is why I didn't consult
with more people about the choice of Kecksburg.

However, we welcome input from everyone into this and any other
projects, and Larry Landsman is interested in cases to consider
for other SCI FI projects. I believe that the SCI FI Channel has
made it possible for a new level of credibility to be brought to
this subject and they will continue to do this. I think the
Science symposium at George Washington University where you and
first met - and which generated coverage in the Washington Post
-- is one example of the beginning of something important. The
same thing will happen with the Kecksburg case as the work
intensifies.

Please note that my role in this is as a journalist. My job is
to present the UFO issue with as much credibility as possible in
mainstream media. My spearheading the FOIA investigation is
being done in this capacity, because I believe the people have a
right to the information and it's my job to help them acquire
it. I do not claim to be a UFO expert or a seasoned researcher,
but simply someone who takes the basic information, applies high
level journalistic standards to it, and presents it at a simple
but credible level in order to bypass the ridicule factor,
elevate the subject, and stimulate debate. It is in this
capacity that I have been delighted to assist SCI FI in its
unprecedented advocacy initiative, and to work with CFI on the
Kecksburg case and other projects.

I have made two visits to the Kecksburg area. In addition to
reviewing Stan's documentation and learning a great deal about
the case, I met with a number of independent, first hand
witnesses. Three reported seeing the object on the ground.
Another, a prominent businessman, described looking down the
barrel of a soldier's rifle as he and his friend tried to sneak
down to the impact site and were stopped. There are many more.
These are credible people who shun publicity and simply want
answers.

I hope this answers your questions, and thanks for taking an
interest in this.


Leslie Kean

-----

Hi Leslie,

Excuse my 'editing' but rather than reprint your entire e-mai I
am only going to quote the passages that I am responding to
directly.

You wrote:

 >You asked why CFI (that is Larry Landsman, Director, Special
 >Projects, SCI FI Channel; Ed Rothschild of Podesta/Mattoon,
 >and myself) decided on the Kecksburg case.

That's a very real problem right there Leslie. None of you have
the knowledge/expertise required to make such an important
selection. No single or couple of experienced UFO researchers
should make that kind of monumental decision either. Such a
selection should only be trusted to a _group_ of experts in the
field. a. to increase it's chances for success and b. to insure
that the resources of CFI and Podesta/Mattoon are being spent on
the very best cases that the _experts_ can come up with.

Of course this is only true if CFI and Podesta/Mattoon are doing
this for the benefit of all Americans/Mankind. On behalf of the
"People." Under those circumstances they should have assembled a
panel of the best in ufology to perform the case selection
process.

If on the other hand, they are only seeking to satisfy some
agenda of their own, then it wouldn't matter much to them to
include 'outsiders' in such a process. I am beginning to wonder
which is the case here. Are they doing it for 'us' or for
themselves?

If it's being done to satisfy their own agenda, then I will back
off post haste and you won't hear another peep out of me. If it
is being done for All, then you all have made a grievous
procedural error by not including long-time, respected
ufologists in the case selection process from the very
beginning.

 >These criteria needed to be satisfied:

 >1. Physical evidence - preferably a crash, or something with
 >debris or trace evidence suitable for analysis by a lab. This
 >ties in with CFI's efforts to make the case for scientists being
 >provided the physical evidence that is now classified.

 >2. Access to the site for "forensic" expeditions by archeologists,
 >radiologists or other scientists.

 >3. A range of living eyewitnesses. (A huge community desiring
 >answers also exists here.)

 >4. A compelling narrative.

 >5. Government involvement in the incident and then withholding
 >of information about it.

Did the same three people (yourself, Ed Rothchild and Larry
Landsman) create the 'criteria' by which a case would be chosen
as well? Again, that kind of determination should only be made
by a group of experienced ufological experts. Not less than well
versed in the subject 'amateurs.'

'Lawyers' are no substitute for a panel of experts on UFOs. A
group of ufologists like; people like Jerry Clark, Jan Aldritch,
Stan Friedman, Loren Gross, Wendy Connors, Richard Hall, Robert
Todd, Barry Greenwood, Joel Carpenter, among scores of other
excellent candidates would have been much better/ effective at
creating a set of 'criteria' for case selection as well as
selecting the case or cases to be used in this effort.

As sure as the Sun comes up in the morning, a strong set of
cases with excellent chances of achieving success would have
been the end result of consulting such a panel of well respected
experts in the field. I'm sorry, but as well liked and respected
as the three of you are, you are collectively no substitute for
the caliber of people/ufologists I mentioned above.

 >My spearheading the FOIA investigation is being done in this
 >capacity, because I believe the people have a right to the
 >information and it's my job to help them acquire it. I do not
 >claim to be a UFO expert or a seasoned researcher,

And _that_ is the crux of the matter under discussion. If you
guys want the support of the ufological community then you
really need to involve/include some of it's best minds/experts
in this very important process. Otherwise you will be working in
a vacuum, and by yourselves.

Leslie, I'm an 'amateur' and even I know that 'Kecksburg' is a
poor choice. Please, reconsider. Talk to Ed and to Larry and see
if you can take the time to include as many of the people I
listed above in the selection of the criteria and the case to be
chosen. It will only serve to strengthen your chances for
success and it will insure the enthusiastic support of the UFO
community at large.


Respectfully,

John Velez
UFO witness/abductee






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   Mar > Mar 13

                   SETI@home Finds 150 Interesting Signals

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 13:12:46 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 13:12:46 -0500
Subject: SETI@home Finds 150 Interesting Signals

http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=QVUS1OM2YH13ECRBAELCFEY?type=top
News&storyID=2371982

Wed March 12, 2003 09:33 PM ET

Calif. Researchers Search for Life in Outer Space


SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - Using 4 million computers worldwide,
scientists based at the University of California, Berkeley said
on Wednesday that they have identified about 150 sources of
possible signals from intelligent civilizations.

The California researchers plan to head to Puerto Rico this
month to use one of the world's most powerful telescopes to more
closely investigate the signals that might be from extra
terrestrials, a university spokeswoman said.

"They are homing in on interesting signals," said Sarah Yang, a
spokeswoman at the University of California, Berkeley where the
SETI@home research project is based. "They have not said they
found anything."

The project links volunteer computer users into the researchers'
efforts to search for strong or unusual signals from space that
one day may lead to the proof that there really may be something
else out there.

The leading candidate signals compiled over more than three
years of work are the ones that were particularly strong or have
been observed in the same spot more than once, researchers said.

While scientists involved in the project are cautious about
their chances of actually discovering a signal from an
intelligent being in outer space this time, they believe they
are on the right track for the future.

"I believe that we will likely discover extraterrestrial
civilizations in the next hundred years," Dan Werthimer, chief
scientist of SETI@home said in a statement.

"Even if we don't find a signal from ET this time, I'm
optimistic in the long run, since our search capabilities are
doubling every year."









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                Re: CFI, Podesta/Mattoon & Kecksburg - White

From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net>
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 13:50:47 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 13:58:26 -0500
Subject: Re:  CFI, Podesta/Mattoon & Kecksburg - White


 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 12:03:57 -0500
 >Subject: CFI, Podesta/Mattoon & Kecksburg

 >Hello All,

 >Preface:

 >I have been attempting to raise questions about 'how and why'
 >the 'Kecksburg case' of 1965 was selected by the folks at CFI
 >and Podesta/Mattoon and 'who' selected it. I also inquired
 >about why more of the established, experienced ufologists
 >were not included/invited to participate in the case selection
 >process. All the while I have been trying to ask my questions
 >in a way that does not come off as 'confrontational' or 'non-
 >supportive' of the effort. Neither of which is true.

<snip>

 >These criteria needed to be satisfied:

 >1. Physical evidence - preferably a crash, or something with
 >debris or trace evidence suitable for analysis by a lab. This
 >ties in with CFI's efforts to make the case for scientists being
 >provided the physical evidence that is now classified.

 >2. Access to the site for "forensic" expeditions by
 >archeologists, radiologists or other scientists.

 >3. A range of living eyewitnesses. (A huge community desiring
 >answers also exists here.)

 >4. A compelling narrative.

 >5. Government involvement in the incident and then withholding
 >of information about it.

<snip>

John -

Why don't you, along with some of the researchers you'd like to
be heard from on this issue, set up a textual spreadsheet, with
those five critera as column headings.  Save the leftmost column
for names of other appropriate, more relevant cases.

Along the left side would be names of cases other than Kecksburg,
listed vertically, which you and the researchers feel are better
for an appeal to GAO to investigate.

For each case listed in the left column, there would be a short
paragraph describing how that case meets each of the five column
heading criteria, under the appropriate column heading.

This would be a bit unmanageable for a simple text email format,
however, spreadsheet software can compress an amazing amount of
text into a small rectangle, using small fonts.  I'm sure you
know this being a graphic artist.

Using landscape format, possibly landscape format using legal
size paper, you can put together a really neat package for
mailing to all involved in that FOIA project.

You can also set up a larger-than-screen-width document in .PDF
format, which would be accessible by way of a browser's
horizontal scroll bar, and post it on your AIC web site.

Call the result a 'first draft' and at least get hard copies
into the hands of people working on the current project.
  Calling it a first draft allows for quicker publishing.  It
looks as if time is of the essence in this matter.

You only need one person who knows formatting in spreadsheet
formatting to do the final assembly.  Researchers who
participate can simply supply the paragraphs in ordinary
vertical format to be emailed to the final spreadsheet assembly
person.  Just like placing classified ads, a reasonable word or
line count should be given to those naming the cases and writing
the paragraphs describing how the case meets each criteria.

You don't need an exhaustive list either.  3 or 4 cases which
are better would be enough to launch the spreadsheet.

Good plan?


Eleanor White







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                 CFI, Podesta/Mattoon & Kecksburg - Addendum

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 14:34:13 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 15:51:46 -0500
Subject: CFI, Podesta/Mattoon & Kecksburg - Addendum


Hello All,

Sorry for the second post...

I neglected to ask an important question in my last and I'd like
to take the opportunity now, if I may.

JV

Leslie wrote:

 >>These criteria needed to be satisfied:

 >>1. Physical evidence - preferably a crash, or something with
 >>debris or trace evidence suitable for analysis by a lab. This
 >>ties in with CFI's efforts to make the case for scientists being
 >>provided the physical evidence that is now classified.

 >>2. Access to the site for "forensic" expeditions by archeologists,
 >>radiologists or other scientists.

 >>3. A range of living eyewitnesses. (A huge community desiring
 >>answers also exists here.)

 >>4. A compelling narrative.

 >>5. Government involvement in the incident and then withholding
 >>of information about it.

I responded:

 >Did the same three people (yourself, Ed Rothchild and Larry
 >Landsman) create the 'criteria' by which a case would be chosen
 >as well? Again, that kind of determination should only be made
 >by a group of experienced ufological experts. Not by less than
 >well versed in the subject 'amateurs.'

 >'Lawyers' are no substitute for a panel of experts on UFOs.
 >A group of ufologists like; people like Jerry Clark, Jan Aldritch,
 >Stan Friedman, Loren Gross, Wendy Connors, Richard Hall,
 >Robert Todd, Barry Greenwood, Joel Carpenter, among scores
 >of other excellent candidates would have been much better/
 >effective at creating a set of 'criteria' for case selection as
 >well as selecting the case or cases to be used in this effort.

 >As sure as the Sun comes up in the morning, a strong set of
 >cases with excellent chances of achieving success would have
 >been the end result of consulting such a panel of well respected
 >experts in the field.

To which I'd like to add the following:

Who came up with that _impossible_ condition that any case to
be considered had to have been one which was previously denied
under the FOIA for reasons of national security? Just how many
such cases do you think there are? It's a _unreasonable_
stipulation to saddle any UFO investigator with. It's the
equivalent of breaking someone's legs before asking them to
climb a mountain. Ala 'Nancy Kerrigan's knees' incident.

Do you understand?

Why was such an impossible hurdle placed in the way of the
researchers?

Unless... the 'Keckburg' case itself was being 'propped up'
(set-up) from the very beginning, that 'stipulation' doesn't
make much sense.

I hope we don't see a "Kecksburg" case movie coming out on the
sci-fi channel anytime soon. There will be a lot of
disillusioned and very angry campers for them to contend with.

How flexible is CFI and Podesta/Mattoon about the previously
refused FOIA request requirement? If we can trash that one,
you'll have a number of strong cases to choose from.

Respectfully submitted for your consideration,


John Velez






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              Re: CFI, Podesta/Mattoon & Kecksburg - Dabrowski

From: Andrew Dabrowski <dabrowsa@indiana.edu>
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 14:26:30 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 15:53:55 -0500
Subject: Re: CFI, Podesta/Mattoon & Kecksburg - Dabrowski


 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 12:03:57 -0500
 >Subject: CFI, Podesta/Mattoon & Kecksburg

 >Hello All,

 >Preface:

 >I have been attempting to raise questions about 'how and why'
 >the 'Kecksburg case' of 1965 was selected by the folks at CFI
 >and Podesta/Mattoon and 'who' selected it. I also inquired
 >about why more of the established, experienced ufologists
 >were not included/invited to participate in the case selection
 >process. All the while I have been trying to ask my questions
 >in a way that does not come off as 'confrontational' or 'non-
 >supportive' of the effort. Neither of which is true.

 ><snip>

 >These criteria needed to be satisfied:

 >1. Physical evidence - preferably a crash, or something with
 >debris or trace evidence suitable for analysis by a lab. This
 >ties in with CFI's efforts to make the case for scientists being
 >provided the physical evidence that is now classified.

 >2. Access to the site for "forensic" expeditions by
 >archeologists, radiologists or other scientists.

 >3. A range of living eyewitnesses. (A huge community desiring
 >answers also exists here.)

 >4. A compelling narrative.

 >5. Government involvement in the incident and then withholding
 >of information about it.

One thing conspicuously absent from the List is the un-
likelihood of a mundane explanation. That seems to be what this
debate is over, and perhaps that just wasn't important to CFI.


Andrew Dabrowski






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                Re: CFI, Podesta/Mattoon & Kecksburg - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 15:09:36 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 15:58:21 -0500
Subject: Re: CFI, Podesta/Mattoon & Kecksburg - Velez


 >From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 13:50:47 -0500
 >Subject: Re: CFI, Podesta/Mattoon & Kecksburg

<snip>

 >Why don't you, along with some of the researchers you'd like to
 >be heard from on this issue, set up a textual spreadsheet, with
 >those five critera as column headings. Save the leftmost column
 >for names of other appropriate, more relevant cases.

 >Along the left side would be names of cases other than Kecksburg,
 >listed vertically, which you and the researchers feel are better
 >for an appeal to GAO to investigate.

 >For each case listed in the left column, there would be a short
 >paragraph describing how that case meets each of the five column
 >heading criteria, under the appropriate column heading.

 >This would be a bit unmanageable for a simple text email format,
 >however, spreadsheet software can compress an amazing amount of
 >text into a small rectangle, using small fonts. I'm sure you
 >know this being a graphic artist.

 >Using landscape format, possibly landscape format using legal
 >size paper, you can put together a really neat package for
 >mailing to all involved in that FOIA project.

 >You can also set up a larger-than-screen-width document in .PDF
 >format, which would be accessible by way of a browser's
 >horizontal scroll bar, and post it on your AIC web site.

 >Call the result a 'first draft' and at least get hard copies
 >into the hands of people working on the current project.
 >Calling it a first draft allows for quicker publishing. It
 >looks as if time is of the essence in this matter.

 >You only need one person who knows formatting in spreadsheet
 >formatting to do the final assembly. Researchers who
 >participate can simply supply the paragraphs in ordinary
 >vertical format to be emailed to the final spreadsheet assembly
 >person. Just like placing classified ads, a reasonable word or
 >line count should be given to those naming the cases and writing
 >the paragraphs describing how the case meets each criteria.

 >You don't need an exhaustive list either. 3 or 4 cases which
 >are better would be enough to launch the spreadsheet.


Hi Eleanor,

Yes, it's an excellent 'plan' were it not for one thing... _I_
don't have to do anything! It's not up to me to do what CFI and
Podesta/Mattoon _should_have_ done on their own.

Your suggestions, as wonderful as they are, is being addressed
to the wrong party. You should be asking CFI and Podesta/Mattoon
why they haven't implemented something similar all on their own
without 'prompting' from folks like you and me.

That kind of 'missing item' in the mix speaks volumes - if
you're really paying attention.

Please send a copy of your suggestions to CFI. I'm curious to
see how it is greeted.


Regards,

John Velez






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                Re: CFI, Podesta/Mattoon & Kecksburg - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 16:25:19 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 17:25:28 -0500
Subject: Re: CFI, Podesta/Mattoon & Kecksburg - Velez


Hello All,

I'm a man of my word so I will not publish any names here. I
have been communicating, privately, with several well-known
researchers who have expressed their own ire regarding the
whole process by which a case was selected by CFI and
Podesta/Mattoon. (to go to the government with.)

Purportedly on _our_ behalf.

I have been given permission by one of the researchers to post
one of their e-mails to me, anonymously, to the UpDates List.
I'm glad the person consented because it expresses opinions that
need to be heard and discusses information that everybody should
know about.

Another reason I am glad to be able to do this is because I have
been told, privately, by one of ufology's most prominent members,
to keep my mouth shut because I don't know what I'm talking
about.

There is something inherently wrong with the request.

Here is one of many notes I have received from several
individuals all of them expressing basically the same
sentiments. Edited for names only.

John Velez

--------------

OFF LIST

Hi John,

I appreciate you keeping up the pressure on this issue. UFOlogy
is going to get another undeserved black eye because of this
Kecksburg Krap as I call it. (Please note so you don't get shot
down by nitpickers that Kecksb_u_rg is with a "u" not an "e.")

This email from Kean demonstrates the two-faced nature of all of
this: CFI did cast around behind the scenes last year for a UFO
document or case to pursue by FOIA and contacted a number of
respected researchers but the requirement was that there had to
already be in existence an FOIA DENIED BECAUSE OF "NATIONAL
SECURITY." It couldn't be merely an FOIA denial for other
reasons such as purportedly not finding any responsive documents
or the setting up of a series of evasions and excuses to
frustrate the FOIA process.

No one said it HAD to be a UFO case with physical evidence -
  this is the first I'm hearing this. It was posed as being
either a DOCUMENT or a UFO case.

No one could come up with anything good because of this
ridiculous stringent condition that it had to be an FOIA denied
for national security. I know. I was indirectly providing input
to (name deleted), (name deleted) and various (organization name
deleted) people, (name deleted), (name deleted). We were stymied
by this unreasonable requirement. The Bolender Memo cries out
for a massive FOIA lawsuit - the Bolender review authorized BLUE
BOOK's closure on the grounds among others that any UFO cases
affecting national security would bypass the BB system anyway so
this setup would continue regardless whether BB existed or not.
The Bolender Memo had 16 Attachments in support and the AF lies
through its teeth in claiming it "can't find them."

If we had known that CFI was simply going to drop this needless
FOIA-denied-for-national-security demand in favor of a pet case
like Kecksburg we could at least have tried to argue for a
better case selection. But we were told that was the rule and
they were sticking to it.

I wholeheartedly endorse the 1975 Northern Tier cases as some
have suggested. There are plenty of FOIA's on it and a strangely
curtailed paper trail that ought to be pursued. The Falconbridge
radar track I am now convinced was a large research balloon but
the other cases are worthwhile.

Other cases could be suggested too but these are good for lots
of reasons including puncturing the PR lie that UFO's pose no
threat to national security, and the fact there are several
bases involved not just one lone sighting.


Best regards,

(Name withheld)







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   Mar > Mar 13

                       Re: UFOs In The Bible - Aubeck

From: Chris Aubeck <caubeck@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 21:41:13 +0000 (GMT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 17:27:16 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs In The Bible - Aubeck


 >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 19:29:50 -0800
 >Subject: Re: UFOs In The Bible [was: Postmodernism - >Hansen]

 >>From: George Hansen <gphansen2001@yahoo.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 11:18:11 -0800 (PST)
 >>Subject: Re: Postmodernism

 >>>From: Brenda Denzler <bdenzler1@email.msn.com>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 09:10:41 -0500
 >>>Subject: Re: Postmodernism - Denzler

 >>>From: Andrew Dabrowski <dabrowsa@indiana.edu>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto<ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 16:45:21 -0500
 >>>Subject: Re: Postmodernism


 >>Dabrowski asserts--

 >>"If we're still arguing about UFOs after another 1000 years,
 >>then OK. But 50 years is not a long time in human history."

 >>In actuality, UFOs have been recognized, discussed, and debated
 >>for thousands of years. Just look at the UFO accounts in the
 >>Bible. ...

 >George,

 >I don't see where it's debated anywhere in the Bible. It was
 >just accepted that Yahweh would sometimes ride around in his sky
 >chariot. Ezekiel may have tried to interpret what he saw, but
 >where was the debate?


 >Jim Deardorff



Hello Jim, George,

I think it would be more correct to state that while UFOs were
not "debated" in the Bible, theologians have spent 2000 years
discussing the significance of the phenomena described there.

However, I would take issue with the assertion that UFOs have
been "recognized" for thousands of years. How do you "recognize"
a UFO? They certainly had not been lumped together or classified
as such till quite recently.

Regards,

Chris








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               Re: CFI, Podesta/Mattoon & Kecksburg - Aldrich

From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 20:42:1 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 20:57:34 -0500
Subject: Re: CFI, Podesta/Mattoon & Kecksburg - Aldrich


 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 16:25:19 -0500
 >Subject: Re: CFI, Podesta/Mattoon & Kecksburg


 >Hello All,

 >I'm a man of my word so I will not publish any names here. I
 >have been communicating, privately, with several well-known
 >researchers who have expressed their own ire regarding the
 >whole process by which a case was selected by CFI and
 >Podesta/Mattoon. (to go to the government with.)

 >Purportedly on _our_ behalf.

 >I have been given permission by one of the researchers to post
 >one of their e-mails to me, anonymously, to the UpDates List.
 >I'm glad the person consented because it expresses opinions that
 >need to be heard and discusses information that everybody should
 >know about.

 >Another reason I am glad to be able to do this is because I have
 >been told, privately, by one of ufology's most prominent members,
 >to keep my mouth shut because I don't know what I'm talking
 >about.

 >There is something inherently wrong with the request.

 >Here is one of many notes I have received from several
 >individuals all of them expressing basically the same
 >sentiments. Edited for names only.

<snip>

Hi John,

For the record, members of both PJ47 and SHG were privately
asked about cases that might fit into CFI criteria. Don Berliner
did ask for input here. I suggested attempting to get the
Bolender staff study attachments. This is a FOIA request that
has met with all kinds of "problems." However, this one is like
climbing up a greased pole, it is hard to get a grip on it.
National security is not a factor here. The possibility of
resolving this request in a year's time is unlikely.

We have since put together a list of tasks, most interrelated,
where there is government involvement in UFO investigation. We
had some preliminary discussions on these with various
interested parties. None of these tasks are smoking-gun type
items. The interrelationship basically lies in the fact that
once you attempt to work in one area, other information will
become available which will support other avenues of inquiry.

Also, we did also put together a spread sheet that showed for
each task: the current progress, degree of difficulty, priority,
political influence, FOIA, and lawsuit support probably needed
possibility of completion within one year. (Since I have simple
FOIA requests for known items which should currently be
declassified and cannot even get a status on the FOIAs after
over a year's time, I am doubtful that most cases can be handled
in such a short period.

My "objections" to Kecksburg are not that we would like to know
more about government involvement, here. I am all for that. (I
don't think it is a particularly compelling first rank case.)
Rather the skewed history that is present about the 4602d Air
Intelligence Service Squadron, Project Moon Dust, and Operation
Blue Fly bother me. I don't pretend to know much about the
history of these organizations and their operations, but from
what I know, the history presented is off the wall and not
supported by research efforts of dozens of people over the
years.

Now the goals seem to be to interest the media, scientists and
Congress in UFOs. If so, than we should try to present the
history as we currently understand it with complete references
and identify the many missing pieces which exist in our model.

One of the facets of UFO research is that advocates abhor any
mystery. If they come upon one, they immediately try to fill it
in with theories presented as facts. In the last two decade many
in the UFO field have fallen victim to the most outrageous of
conspiracy theories. Ufology has always been mildly paranoid,
but the last twenty years have been real winners.


Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
http://www.project1947.com/
P. O. Box 391
Canterbury, CT 06331
(860) 546-9135









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                                UFOs & NORAD

From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 03:26:06 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 04:15:38 -0500
Subject: UFOs & NORAD


Hello John Velez and the Listerion family,

John, thanks for posting the information regarding CFI and their
attempt to use the Kecksburg case as the vehicle for their
efforts.

I only found out today (thanks to you) they demand a case where
FOIA access has been denied. I appreciate the posting of a
researcher's email requesting the northern tier cases to be
included.

Last week Wendy Connors posted that she thought the Malmstrom
AFB case and other NORAD cases were worthy as a first effort by
CFI, the GSA, and the attorneys. I posted a response supporting
her position and illustrated that these cases have always been
of top priority to me. I said I first learned of these cases in
the 1970s when I saw the USAF released story of UFOs visiting
northern tier bases on the front of the Washington Post
newspaper. That lit my afterburner as I am sure it did with many
people, UFO researchers or not.

The USAF did release some files but it was only limited
information. For years I have hoped to see the rest of the
information the government is holding back on all the NORAD UFO
related cases from the 1960s and 1970s. John, when I saw your
post on the List today I decided to look back over some of those
cases that I had not looked at for some time. First I became sad
because my copy of Fawcett and Greenwood's "Clear Intent" was
missing from my books after all these years. I remembered that
in Timothy Good's "Above Top Secret" it mentioned (page 300)
those cases and the FOIA situation:

"NORAD has released a number of documents under provisions of
the Freedom of Information Act which detail some incidents, such
as the intrusion over Startegic Air Command (SAC) bases -
  including nuclear bases - in Maine, Michigan, Montana, North
Dakota, and Canada, in 1975, but many more are withheld. When
Citizens Against Ufo Secrecy (CAUS) filed an FOIA request this
data in NORAD files, they were quoted a search fee of over
$150,000."

In the past the researcher Ray Fowler (in Arthur Bray's book
"The UFO Connection") and others revealed information regarding
incidents in the 1960s (including Malmstrom AFB) that also
involved UFO overflights and interference with some underground
ballistic missiles.

I am also posting a link to something that Francis Ridge wrote
in the MUFON Journal issue number 192, February 1984 regarding
the1975 incidents. He discussed the limited FOIA releases and
the refusal to release further documents.

He stated that "In the overflight document there is one page
that states, and I quote, '(3) HQ USAF/DADF also forwarded a
copy of a

NORAD document for a review for possible downgrade and release.
We have determined that the document is properly and currently
classified and is exempt from disclosure under Public Law 90-23,
5USC 552b(2)' ".

One way or another I want to see the documents that are being
held back, the actual investigations and determinations. The
multiple UFO incidents involving those bases are a serious
security issue. What did the government actually do about that
situation? Do those files sit in the same vault as the UFO
security cases that bypassed Bluebook? What newer cases may be
in there besides the NORAD ones? I'd like to see CFI, the GSA,
and the attorneys crack that nut open. NOW!

The CFI devised strict requirements for Kecksburg being their
first case. It sounds like they are still determined to go ahead
with it at this point. I don't know if those people can
entertain another case for FOIA release at this point. I don't
know what their fixation on the Kecksburg case will result in. I
would think that since the cases I have mentioned involved
NORAD, UFOs, and interference with critical opertions, they
would be of high value to CFI, the attorneys, and the SciFi
network. I will contact CFI with my information and request. I
highly recommend that others interested in this matter also
contact them with information and your requests.

The Ridge piece follows a statement by the "First Lady" of our
list :-) Linda Howe from her book "Strange Harvest", also
reproduced in Fawcett and Greenwood's book "Clear Intent". I am
just showing what she wrote and not saying whether it was
accurate or not.

Josh

-----

FADED GIANT - LAUNCH CODES CHANGED
RV/E-M
Malmstrom AFB, Montana
November 7, 1975


There are more than 2,000 missile sites spread across the United
States. At Malmstrom Air Force Base in Montana, there are twenty
Launch Control Facilities (LCF) housing Minuteman missiles
underground. The Minuteman sites are alphabetically coded, such
as "L-1," "K-1," "E-1," and the like, and are distributed over a
wide area. One of these sites, K-7, which is located in the
Judith Gap region just south of Lewiston, Montana, was the scene
of an event which caused a major stir for the United states Air
Force.

On November 7, remote electronic sensors triggered an alarm
indicating that something was violating site security.
Underground, in the launch control area, two officers noted the
signal, but there was no television surveillance topside. The
normal procedure for detecting what had violated security was to
call for a missile security helicopter to check the area. At the
same time, Sabotage Alert Teams (SAT), consisting of four to six
men, were also alerted to the fact that a violation was taking
place and were ordered to proceed to the site. On this occasion,
an SAT team drove down the highway and onto a dirt road which
led to the K-7 area. About a mile away, the team could see an
orange, glowing object over the area. As they closed to within
half a mile, they could now see that the object was tremendous
in size. They radioed to the Launch Control Facility that, from
their location, they were viewing a brightly glowing, orange,
football field-sized disc that illuminated the missile site. The
SAT team was ordered by the launch control people to proceed
into the K-7 site. However, they responded that they refused to
go any farther, clearly fearful of the intimidating appearance
of the object. It began to rise, and at about 1,000 feet, NORAD
picked up the UFO on radar. Two F-106 jet interceptors were
launched from Great Falls, Montana, and headed toward the K-7
area. The UFO continued to rise. At about 200,000 feet, it
disappeared from NORAD's radar. The F-106's were never able to
get a visual sighting of the UFO.

All members of the SAT team were directed to the base hospital,
where they were psychologically tested. It was determined that
no one could identify the object that was seen, but that the
members of the SAT team obviously had been through a traumatic
experience. Meanwhile, targeting teams, along with computer
specialists, were brought to the missile site to check out the
missile, and specifically, the computer in the warhead that
targets the missile. Amazingly, when the computer was checked,
they found that the tape had mysteriously changed target
numbers! The re-entry vehicle was then taken from the silo and
brought back to the base. Eventually the entire missile was
changed.

(Source: Original: A Strange Harvest; reprinted in Clear Intent,
  28).

-  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -

THE NIGHT NORAD WENT ON TOP ALERT
Late October 1975
Cheyenne Mountain, Colorado
By Francis L. Ridge

This updated paper was originally printed in the MUFON UFO
JOURNAL, issue number 192, February 1984. The incident
reportedly occurred in 1975. Several years ago when I first
heard of the "mysterious helicopter overflights" of several key
U. S. Air Force SAC bases, I treated the whole matter very
lightly. I didn't think it was a UFO matter. In 1983 I received
over 400 pages of FOIA documents from the Fund For UFO Research
and read the pages concerning those overflights and found to my
surprise that the word helicopter wasn't used that much. Also,
the descriptions of the objects and their maneuvers sounded like
the UFOs I had been investigating and researching since 1960.
Later on in the documents the word helicopters becomes UFOs.

In 1983 I was the sole guest of radio station WGBF in
Evansville, Indiana, for a two hour call-in type talk show
program. During that show an anonymous caller reported a very
interesting report, a somewhat sinister event that allegedly
took place at NORAD, the North American Air Defense Command, at
about the same time as those overflights. The moderator and I
asked the man to contact me later to document what he had
reported. According to this man, it was a full-scale Security
Option 5 Alert, and UFOs and investigators from the "Air Force
UFO division" were part of the picture. I also obtained some
information about the codes used in the 25 pages of data I had
in my personal possession on those overflights. And it is
obvious that there is more that is being withheld. The pages we
have on the overflights are incomplete reports, most of the
follow-up data is missing. The reams of pages to the actual
reports and all the subsequent comments are still withheld. The
pages that we have represent only communication from computer to
computer or operator to operator. In other words, the initial
filing only. According to my source who served in Air Force
security at NORAD, the documents merely say, "I'm making a
report. It's up to you to make your report, etc."

NORAD is the National Combat Operations Center (or was at the
time of the incident) and is based at Cheyenne Mountain,
Colorado. The Command Post is located deep inside the mountain
and supposedly can withstand a 10-megaton direct direct hit.
UFOs raise quite a bit of havoc when sighted by military people
and detected on radar near any sensitive military installation,
but especially at Cheyenne Mountain. When bonified UFOs violate
airspace over NORAD's Command Post, there should be serious
concern.

In late October 1975, evidently there was enough concern to go
into a Security Option 5 Alert. According to our informant,
nobody was allowed to enter the base, except cleared, high-
ranking officers or cleared security patrols. No one was to
leave. Those personnel on base who had just completed duty were
rolled out of bed. Jet interceptors were scrambled into the air.
In fact, everything they put in the air during an attack on the
U.S. was airborne.

The men had worked the third shift of duty at NORAD and came off
about eight in the morning. Everybody in the group of
approximately nine or ten men went home, got their hunting and
camping gear together and met at the home of one of the guys.
They then took off for one of their routine hunting trips, one
of the things they liked to do together. One of the fellows who
was supposed to go, wound up on radar duty, a circumstance that
later proved valuable as evidence for what happened at the
Mountain that day. Another man in the group later became an
airline pilot for United Airlines and a couple of years later
secured some information about an airline case that occurred the
same evening as their alert. United had filed a UFO report with
the Air Force!

To start off, my informant told me, "We weren't drunk!" He said
that they had been hunting all day and they had sat down and ate
a late dinner near a warm cozy fire and were getting ready to
turn in. One of the guys thought he saw a shooting star. There
appeared to be some unusual animal activity/noise for about 15
minutes. It was late, between 10 PM and midnight. One of the
other fellows said, "Well, there's two of them!" So, they
stopped, kindled the fire down and eventually put it out
completely. What they then saw were three distinctly different
lights (not on one object, but separate) moving to a point to
where they blurred across the horizon and then they would stop,
move back in the opposite direction and then move away from them
to a point where they almost couldn't see them anymore. Then the
lights would move again. "We were thinking our eyes were playing
tricks on us until they lined up almost abreast of each other
and proceeded directly toward the Mountain," continues Mr. E (as
I shall call him). Right after this (approximately 6 to 8
minutes later) they heard the buzzers go and the Mountain went
on alert! At this point they, themselves, scrambled, got their
gear packed up quickly and headed for the Mountain and their
posts. They had been on leave 10 to 12 hours but were still on
call, attached to the security of the Mountain, except for the
pilot. So they hustled back as their orders dictated. From the
campsite to the Mountain was a drive of about 45 minutes to an
hour, and they drove there in a hurry, entering the gate at
0210. They showed their passes and were admitted (only because
they were part of the bases's security). They were not given a
chance to change clothes and were still in their hunting gear.
They grabbed their weapons and went to their assigned posts and
stayed on alert until 0600, when the alert was "stepped down".

Later, the fellow who had been on radar duty reported he had
tracked UFOs for a good 20 minutes. Two or three days later,
they were altogether again and they asked him if he had tracked
anything on his radar, and he said he had. He reported that it
was "weird" and proceeded to describe it to them, word for word,
what they had also seen visually. At first it was very erratic
(the movement of the first UFO as stated by Mr. E). Mr. E.
stated to me later that there appeared to be trails behind the
objects at the time. The description sounds as if it could have
been "persistence of vision" where a lighted object appears to
leave a fading image behind it as it moves quickly across a dark
background. A couple of days later, one of the group mentioned
to someone that they had seen some lighted objects right before
the alert.

Some of the men in the group started checking into the records
as to the reason for the scramble and security alert and found
that nothing had been filed. They then started asking around to
see if they could find something, anything, to explain the
occurrence at the base. It was then that the AF "UFO people"
showed up. Mr. E. referred to the investigators as the Air Force
UFO division, "whatever they were called - came out to talk to
us." They interviewed the group (and who else at NORAD?) one by
one and everybody's story matched, even the radar operator's,
where the UT's (Uncorrelated Targets) maneuvered for over 20
minutes. He filed a report with the AF investigators. He was
told to ignore it and continue about his business, not to worry
about it. The group was ordered at that time not to mention the
incident. "As long as we were in uniform, we were not to discuss
it with anyone other than military personnel with an official
need-to-know and the fellows from the Air Force investigating
team that came out to talk to us." They told the group that they
had seen navigational lights or landing lights. Mr. E stated his
group had all been in Viet Nam and were familiar with navigation
lights. They had seen night fighters working, taking off and
landing many times. They were told by the investigators that
their report could not be taken seriously since they couldn't
describe a shape or color, other than white, like a shooting
star. It would appear that the Air Force was very glad that that
is all the men could report. We knew that nocturnal lights can
be important evidence, especially in conjunction with other
better-quality reports and radar cases as backup evidence. It is
also strange that the men were asked not to relate their stories
to anyone "outside". They were told that incident fell under a
document which Mr. E thought sounded like a document I was aware
of, like Publication 6, Vol. 5. I am aware of it, but do not as
yet have a copy. However, I am told that it is a CIRVIS document
(Communications Instructions for Reporting Vital Intelligence
Sightings) and therefore falls under the Communications Act of
1934 with severe penalties or fines attached to it. Also, Mr. E
kept saying that "They played it off like it wasn't anything."
Yet, a Security Option 5 Alert is very serious, indeed. The
overflight documents (the ones we were allowed to see, that is)
mention a Security Option 3 being exercised, with UFOs showing
"clear intent" near a weapon storage area. When some of the
group tried to check the records, they could find no evidence of
an alert. "We couldn't find anything in the records that were
available to us." said Mr. E. "Now, we didn't try to get into
clearance areas, but the records that were available to us were
primarily security records." Even the files of the radar man of
the group were devoid of any mention of any alert. It appeared
that all material relating to the event had been pulled! Within
about sixty days, everyone in the group received a written
reprimand for drinking on duty, which none of them had done. In
fact, they weren't even on duty at the time of the sighting.

The men were reportedly not abused or mistreated. Nor were there
any stripes pulled or were any of the men "passed over" by their
superiors. They simply received a written reprimand, which came
"out of nowhere", dated the same day as the sightings," a copy
of which was placed in their 201 file. The radar man, who was
still in the Air Force when I investigated this incident,
according to my informant received the letter mentioning
drinking on duty and dereliction of duty. He was the only one
who lost a promotion about six months later, simply because this
was on his record.

In the overflight documents there is one page that states, and I
quote, "3) HQ USAF/DADF also forwarded a copy of a NORAD
document for a review for possible downgrade and release. We
have determined the document is properly and currently
classified and is exempt from disclosure under Public Law 90-23,
5 USC 552b(1)." This was signed by Col. Terrence C. James, USAF,
Director of Administration. There is another page that mentions
a "security camper team at K-4 reporting a UFO with white
lights" at. 0635Z (11:35 PM local). But this one was at
Malmstrom AFB, Montana, on 8 Nov. Something very strange was
going on in the late fall of 1975. Going on the assumption that
UFOs are real and there is a reason for everything, I thought
about this series of events as I watched and worried about two
sons in the military during the Gulf War. What we were doing was
in response to a threat we perceived. Waves of flights and a few
crashes. Were WE (U.S. or Soviets) doing something that caused
the overflights of 1975? It is my opinion that we were. How many
years will it take before we find out? It took over 30 years to
find out how close the super powers were to nuclear annihilation
in the early 1950's, a period of intense UFO scrutiny. And even
earlier than that, two years after we dropped two atomic bombs
on mostly civilians, we were testing rockets that (to outside
observers) could deliver them from afar. Within a six week
period there were over 1,000 sightings (50% were daylight discs)
and the reported crash at Roswell.

-  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  - -











   UFO UpDates
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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Mar > Mar 14

                             Vandenberg AFV Case

From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 06:36:26 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 04:29:51 -0500
Subject: Vandenberg AFV Case


In my last post I hoped that through the CFI and the FOIA the
witheld files on the USAF bases UFO and missile tampering cases
would get released. Since then I thought I'd also throw out the
classic UFO missile rampering case from Vandenberg USAF base
in1964.

Many of you are familiar with this case but I have enclosed a
statement from the Officer in Charge of the Big Sur missile
tracking station. If this happenes I am sure the USAF has
records of it that they are refusing to release. Lets get them
out.

Josh

-----

The Big Sur UFO Filming
Date: September, 1964
Location: Pacific Ocean off California


DELIBERATE DECEPTION:
A Critical Analysis of the Curious Events at Vandenberg Air
Force Base By Bob Jacobs, Ph.D.

This is an article about the filming and subsequent U.S.
Government coverup of a UFO which interfered with a dummy Atomic
warhead one Autumn day in 1964 high over the Pacific Ocean off
Vandenberg Air Force Base in California. It is a first hand
account of an event. Before dealing with it and the subsequent
revelations which have come from a variety of sources since
1964, consider this brief discussion about UFOs and The Press.

It is a sad and curious fact that much of the literature
surrounding the UFO phenomena appears in the highly
sensationalized "tabloids." Once relegated solely to pulp
newsprint this form of idiot journalism has now moved into
television with personal ties like Geraldo Rivera, Morton
Downey, Jr. and a growing number of other slime merchants. Owing
to the prejudice toward this kind of journalism shared by
intellectuals, academicians and the celebrities who frequently
decry being victimized by the tabloids, such exposure has tended
to desensitize the American Public to the potential seriousness
of the UFO issue. Since tabloids seem to be written
stylistically by and for the lunatic fringe, then UFOs are seen
broadly as the purview of lunatics exclusively,

If one wanted deliberately to denigrate an issue, to relegate it
to trash heap of pop culture, one could not do so more
completely than to insure that the issue falls into the hands of
The Star or The National Enquirer or Geraldo Rivera! Perhaps a
case could be made for the UFO evidence having been delivered
over to garbage journalism by design as a method of discrediting
it.

We know, for example, that at the beginning of his involvement
with the subject, the late Dr. J. Allen Hynek, later Chairman of
the Department ol Astronomy at Northwestern University, was
employed by the United States Air Force with Project Blue Book
to "debunk" all "flying saucer" sightings. His famous  "Swamp
Gas" conclusion has lived in the popular mythos long after the
good Doctor's formal recantation of it. And, in spite of some of
the general popularizing of the subject in films like Close
Encounters of the Third Kind and E.T., Johnny Carson, David
Letterman and other television talk show heroes, still get comic
mileage out of poking fun at UFO investigators, "swamp gas and
the frequent loonies who claim to be incarnate space ships or to
own condos on Venus. If the tabloids were not paid off to run as
many mislead- ins, bizarre stories on UFOs and UFO Fringies as
possible, always making these tales appear to be from or about
some dimwit in the hinter lands, then they may as well have
been.

Deliberate deception, Machiavellian conspiracy, coincidence or
just the luck of the draw - whatever the reason, the resultant
tabloid "sleaze factor" is a handicap for any scholar wishing to
engage in research into what is, in fact, a fascinating and
deliciously intricate field worthy of serious study.

I am a scholar, a card-carrying Ph.D., and a university
professor in a department of Journalism and Broadcasting. Some
years ago I was an officer in the United States Air Force, the
first officer in the photography career field, by the way, to be
awarded the Air Force Guided Missile Insignia; the "Missile
Badge."

Those are facts. Another fact is that I have been a participant
in an -official United States Government-ordered UFO coverup.
I've been ridiculed by some of my colleagues in academia because
in 1982 I wrote an article about this coverup and it appeared in
The National Enquirer. It was not my intention to become a
tabloid writer then or now. The Enquirer turned out to be the
only publication I could find which was interested in printing
the article at all. Both academic and mainstream journals and
periodicals turned it down cold over the period of nearly a year
during which I submitted and resubmitted it. I was told by
editor after editor that UFO stories weren't "publishable." I
thought the story was important then. That's why I let a tabloid
publish it. I still think it's important. That's why I responded
to the invitation to write it for this journal.

So much for preamble about the press.


Big Sur Background

Six years then, after it first broke, here is my report on what
we photographed at Big Sur along with some of what has happened
since 1982 in plain, unheroic, non-sensational, unexpurgated and
non-tabloidized English.

I earned the "Missile Badge" for making a "significant
contribution to America's Missile and Space Program" so the
citation read, while I was Officer-in-Charge of Photo-optical
Instrumentation in the 1369th Photographic Squadron at
Vandenherg Air Force Base, California from May, 1963 to May,
1966. My work in establishing a long range tracking site at Big
Star, California in large part is what convinced the Air Force
to give me that cherished award. The circumstances that took me
to the "Missile Badge" ceremony as well as to that lovely and
mysterious bulge of California coastline known as the Big Star
ended up changing my mind about a number of things, including
the nature of our government, the nature of my personal belief
systems and the nature of the universe.

It began with a man named Kingston A. George. "King" George had
the title of Operations Analyst for Headquarters, 1st Strategic
Aerospace Division. The engineers, civilian and military, whose
job it was to evaluate the instrumentation photography which we
provided on every missile launch down the Western Test Range,
were unhappy, he said. Shooting tracking footage from Vandenberg
only provided a look up the "tailpipe" of the missile. What
George said they wanted was a side look at all stages of powered
flight. This side-look was not possible from anyplace on the
base. Because of the tortured California coastline, such a view
was possible from one spot. Big Star.

Topographically, Big Sur is both north and west of Vandenberg.
We reasoned that we might get the shot the engineers wanted if
we could get high enough to provide both a line-of-sight to the
base and to put us well above the offshore fog bank which
blankets the California shoreline much of the year. Because of
the 124 mile distance from Vandenberg to Big Sur, the final
things needed were a lens with a very long focal length, a
recording device capable of enhancing the image and a tracking
system on which to mount them.

According to George, such a device was built and ready to go. It
was the Boston University telescope, owned by the Air Force
Eastern Test Range (AFETR) at Patrick Air Force Base, Florida
and under the direction of Mr. Walter Manning in the Aerospace
Sciences Division at AFETR. The optical segment of the device
was a folded Gregorian telescope with a 24- inch diameter
objective mirror and a 240-inch focal length. The lens apparatus
was sealed from the air and insulated against heat and cold. A
set of Barlow extenders could yield effective focal lengths of
  from 480 to 2,400 inches. (The normal focal length lens for a
35mm camera is about two inches!)

The light sensing element of the instrument was an image
orthocon (television) tube. The I.O. could enhance the optical
image, convert it to a series of electrical signals and display
on a Kinescope where it was photographed with 35mm motion
picture film. Because the I.O. had remarkable low noise, the
gain could be "cranked quite high to record very low light level
objects. Such a device could record sources of light emission or
reflection which were tens of times too weak for detection by
other photographic methods.

The B.U., as it was called, was ideal for the purpose. One of
the primary goals of our mission, according to George, was to
provide information on the "minute events folIowing propellant
depletion - at distance of from 300 to 800 nautical miles.
(italics mine)

If we could find a level place accessible to the B.U. (not easy,
considering that the scope with its tracker was just a little
smaller than a conventional moving van and had be hauled by a
heavy duty, cross- country type diesel truck) and see the
missile through the haze well enough to lock in on it with the
tracking mount, we still had one problem left. Engineering
sequential photograph is of little use to the viewer without the
addition of timing marks on th film. This time code received
from Wheeling, West Virginia tagged each individual frame of
film with a reference point in real time to the moment of engine
ignition and launch. The coded pips of light were recorded on
the sound track area of the film by an exciter lamp driven by
the signal from WWV. On the base, timing signals were sent to
the cameras by hardlines from the blockhouse. Running a line to
Big Sur with the necessary amplifiers would have been to costly,
particularly for what was only a feasibility test. We had to try
some thing else. The solution was really very simple.

On June 10,1964 I lead a group of people to the area I had
discovered earlier near Anderson Peak at an elevation of  3,400
feet on a Forest Service fire trail, 9 miles into the woods and
uphill from Highway 1 in Big Sur. With me on that sunny summer
day were my NCOIC, Chief Master Sergeant Ike N. Davis, Jr.,
NCOIC of my Tracking Section, Staff Sergeant Jules Devine,
Kingston A. George, with a Technical Sergeant Porter from 1st
STRATAD and a Mr. Paulson from Patrick Air Force Base at Cape
Kennedy. All of us agreed that the truck could certainly pull
the B.U. up to this site with no trouble. Could we now get
timing pips to it?

We had with us that day a portable radio transceiver which we
used at Vandenberg to communicate from my office to the mobile
vehicles and our tracking sites on base. At Vandenberg I had
Airman First Class Joseph Williams standing by. He had wired the
output of one of the timing signals to an identical transceiver
to the to the one I had. At my command he activated the radio
and transmitted flawless timing signals to us at Big Sur, just
as we had in a test weeks earlier. All that was necessary with
the B.U. would be to patch-in our receiver to its timing signal
input on the 35mm motion picture camera. Timing was no problem.
There was happiness on the site and my "Missile Badge" was
assured rhat day.

On August 28,1964, I lead a convoy up the Pacific Coast Highway
through Pismo Beach, past Hearst Castle at San Simeon and into
what would be history. Technical Sergeant Thomas Dodd was my
NCOIC for the remote site. He would operate our standard M-45
tracking mount with conventional 35mm Mitchell film cameras to
compare with the results of the B.U. Telescope. A1C Joseph
Williams was along to handle communications and timing. A1C
Daryl Winters was also along. As a sad sideline, Winters would
become the first and only Air Force photo man to be killed in
action in Vietiian a little over two years later. Our Air Force
troop camped at the preselected fire trail turnout near the
summit of Anderson Peak, set up our M-45 and waited.

On August 31, 1964 the B.U. Telescope arrived on site with its
truck and its caravan of people for a 30-day test period. Walt
Manning was with it along with a crew of three operators and one
supervisor. We were also joined by two people from Vandenberg:
Chief Warrant Officer Guy M. Spooner from the Operations Section
of the 1369th and Major Florenz J. Mansmann from 1st STRATAD.
With a celebratory air, the B.U. was set in place and made ready
to perform. Mansmann and Spooner went back to Vandenberg. The
rest of us settled in to prepare for the first of what could be
a total of 11 launches from the base during the 30 day test.
Nine of these would be photographed through a major portion of
powered flight by both the B.U. Telescope operating with
effective focal lengths ranging from 1200 inches to an average
of 720 inches, and with the conventional cameras and shorter
lenses of the 1369th's M-45 mount.


The Incident

One of these launches would inspire an official government
coverup and provoke an investigation and search for the filmed
record which goes on to this day. Here is what happened.

To the best of my recollection and based on sketchy records -
   the date of the event was most probably either September 2nd,
3rd, or 15th, 1964 The launch was of an Atlas missile. It was an
Atlas-F as I recall strongly, but it may possibly have been an
Atlas.D. The flight was in support of the Nike-Zeus objectives.
Nike Zeus was one of the United States' projects to develop an
anti-missile missile. This particular mission was part of a test
of an enemy radar-defeating system. The whole program in
hindsight seems very primitive, possibly futile and even a bit
silly. Nearly a quarter of a century ago in 1964 it was deadly
serious business.

At the Big Sur tracking site we were ready to go as the
countdown from Vandenberg progressed loud and clear on our
radio. At the call of "ignition.... liftoff" all cameras rolled
and scanned to the southeast for something to photograph. "There
it is!", I shouted out as the Atlas leaped through the snow-
white coastal fog blanket and both tracking mounts homed-in on
the majestic "bird" in flight. The big Atlas could not have been
more clean, clear and majestic We were "Go" for the operation.

The magnification of the B.U. was truly impressive. The exhaust
nozzles and lower third of the Atlas missile literally filled
the frame at this distance of over 100 nautical miles. With one
tracking mount operator on azimuth and one on elevation working
completely manually, it was not easy to keep the image centered
in the early stages of flight. As the nosecone package
approached T + 400 seconds, sufficient angle of view had been
established that we were literally locked down with the whole
inflight package centered in the frame. No one on the site was
watching the screen by this point. Our mission to provide the
engineers with a side look at three stages of powered flight had
been accomplished and we were a very happy bunch, congratulating
each other and letting the film run out in the 35mm motion
picture camera focused on the Kinescope.

I took fhe cans of exposed film and headed down the coast to
Vandenberg and our laboratory. Processing of the film would
occur that night and the results would be ready for viewing the
next day.


Men in Grey

I was back at my desk enjoying the feeling of accomplishment
from the Big Stir expedition when I was called by Major
Mansmann, who asked me to come right away to his office at the
Headquarters building. When I arrived, I found a movie projector
set up in the office and a group of people waiting. Among these
I recall two men in plain grey suits who spoke little and
watched me intently as the lights were dimmed and the film
played on a bright screen. (Mansmann has since stated that there
were actually three men present.)

It was a surprise and a delight for me to be seeing the
kinescope recording from Big Sur after all the months of
planning and weeks of work. I was quite amazed and very pleased
with the quality, especially at the distance involved as we
could make out quite plainly the separated nosecone, the radar
experiment and the dummy warhead all sailing along beautifully
about 60 miles straight up from planet Earth and some 300 to 500
nautical miles down range. As we neared the end of the camera
run, Mansmann said, "Watch carefully now, Lieutenant ant
Jacobs."

At that point the most remarkable vision of my life came on the
screen. Another object flew into the frame from left to right.
It approached the warhead package and maneuuered around it. That
is, this ... "thing"...flew a relative polar orbit around our
warhead package which was itself heading toward the South
Pacific at some 18 thousand miles an hour!

As the new object circumnavigated our hardware, it emitted four
distinct bright flashes of light at approximately the 4 cardinal
compass points of its orbit. These flashes were so intense that
each "strike" caused the I.O. tube to "boom" or form a halo
around the spot. Following this remarkable aerial display the
object departed the frame in the same direction direction from
which it had come. The shape of the object was that of a classic
"flying saucer." In the middle of the top half of the object was
a dome. From that dome, or just beneath it, seemed to issue a
beam of light or which caused the flashes described.

Subsequently the warhead malfunctioned and tumbled out of
suborbit hundreds of miles short of its target. This ...
unidentified flying ... "thing" had apparently "shot down" an
American dummy atomic warhead!

The lights came on and Major Mansmann said, "Lieutenant Jacobs,
were you or any of your people fooling around up there at Big
Sur?

"No sir," I answered honestly. I was shaking with excitement.

"Then tell me ... what the Hell was that?"

I looked Major Mansmann straight in the eye. "It looks to me
like we got a UFO," I said.

There was a stifling silence among the men in grey, civilian
suits who continued to stare at me. Major Mansmann gave them
what I can only describe as a "let me handle this" look.


Cover-Up

"Well," he smiled cordially, "let's just say it never happened.
You are to say nothing about this footage to anyone. As far as
you and I are concerned, this never took place, you understand?"

I looked at the men in the grey suits. They were not smiling. I
felt hot and anxious. I was sweating badly. I think I just sat
for a minute looking blankly at Major Mansmann. I had just seen
the most fantastic event of my life. It etched a path in my
memory as deep as the one put there almost a year earlier when
President John F. Kennedy had been shot to death in Dallas. I
wanted more than anything to see it again, to study it under a
magnifier, to analyze the pictures frame by frame.

Major Mansmann did smile, nicely. "I don't need to remind you of
the seriousness of a security breach, do I Lieutenant?", he
asked.

"No, sir," I replied.

"Good," he said1 motioning for me to stand.

I stood.

He walked me to the door, speaking confidentially. "What you
just saw did not take place," he repeated. "It never happened."

I looked at him once more. Something flickered way back deep in
his eyes as he again looked at the men in grey then back to me.

"But ... if at some time in the future," Florenz Mansmann said
finally, "you are pressed by someone about this and you can't
get out of answering, just tell them ... tell them it was
flashes from laser tracking, O.K.?"

And with that, I was ushered out the door and into over a decade
of silence on the subject. Never mind that in 1964 we did not
have laser tracking, nor did we or any other power on Earth have
spacecraft capable of flying circles around a suborbital
capsule. I tried to sublimate the whole incident out of loyally
and respect for Florenz Mansmann whom I liked a great deal.
While I did not talk about the event with anyone. I did begin a
period of intense research into the UFO phenomena.

My research intercst in the field continues to the present. Of
particular fascination is the relationship of the press to the
UFO. This great Liberal bastion of free enquiry, this body of
muckrakers which prides itself so highly on prodding and
upsetting political figures, has played very prettily  into the
hands of those same government minions who wish to obfuscate the
whole field of discovery, discussion and debate about the most
perplexing and possibly most important scientific conundrum in
the history of our species. While chasing after Pulitzer Prizes
for such relatively petty mischief as political dirty tricks at
Watergate, or poor old Gary Hart and his happy harlots or the
hapless Dan Quayle and his colorless, but merely mediocre
background, The Press has persistently missed one of the really
imperative stories of our time. . Goes Public

I told my small portion of it first, tentatively, on a late
night talk show which I hosted in Eureka, California in 1973 on
station KFMl-FM. The response I got to my revelation was almost
as astonishing as had been the event itself. My program
director, Richard Van Pelt, came forth to tell his own tale of a
CE3K which happened to him while he was an Air Force Security
NCO in Iceland 20 years earlier. A university physics professor
at California State University, Humboldt who had worked on the
H-bomb project came forth to tell about his firm belief in the
extraterrestrial nature of UFOs. Since then I have met a number
of other people whom I respect, whom I know not to be "fringies"
or cranks or crackpots, but who share common experiences with
UFO sightings and encounters.

And, finally, in 1982, 1 decided that my story needed to be
aired to a broader audience. Eighteen years had gone by. I could
not get it out of my mind after all that time. Then, first in
the trade journals, later in the popular press, there were hints
of a new weapon system in the offing. It was some kind of
satellite-smasher we were told. Soon we would hear President
Reagan himself disrobe the rumors and give us Star Wars (SDI).
There were the rumors of aircraft being built which were
invisible to radar (some said to the human eye, as well!)
"Stealth," they were called. It is significant to recall that
until very recently, the Air Force denied that they existed,
too! There were persistent stories of something called Project
Snowbird where American pilots were being shown how to operate
captured (or donated) alien space craft Something about the Big
Sur film seemed to be part of the overall pattern. I held back
writing my story because of the Security angle until the truth
occurred to me. There was no "security breach" in this story.
The damn thing had never been "Classified SECRET' or anything
else. I had been told simply that it "NEVER HAPPENED"!
Therefore, I was free to tell the story to whomever I pleased
since it was about a non event officially.

I wrote my article. I shopped it around. In the end The National
Enquirer published it. And as now retired Major Florenz J.
Mansmann put it, "Jacobs opened Pandora's Box."

I was contacted by a variety of investigators, buffs, cranks,
proponents and detractors alike. James Oberg, a frequent
"mouthpiece" for certain NASA projects and self-styled UFO
Debunker wrote to disparage my story and to ask provocatively,
"Since you obviously feel free to discuss top secret UFO data,
what would you be willing to say about other top secret aspects
of the Atlas warhead which you alluded to briefly ...?" I told
Mr. Oberg where to put his misplaced cynicism.

Mansmann, now a Ph.D. research consultant at Stanford and a
farmer near Fresno, California was besieged with requests for
inforrnation, and for his version of what happened. My respect
and admiration for him was vindicated
as he categorically verified my account.


Conclusions

Academicians first gather data, then postulate conclusions based
on what they find. From what I have gathered first hand,
(primary evidence), pieced together from Mansmann, from a fine
researcher named Lee M. Graham), from contemplation, discussion
and debate of the material, as well as from the Air Force
position on this and other related matters, I have come to the
following conclusions:

(1) What we photographed that September day in 1964 was a solid,
three-dimensional, intelligently controlled flying device.

(2) It emitted a beam of energy, possibly a plasma beam, at our
dummy warhead and caused a malfunction.

(3) This "craft" was not anything of which our science and
technology in 1964 was capable. The most probable explanation of
the device, therefore, is that it was of extraterrestrial
origin.

(4) The flashing strikes of light we recorded on film were not
from laser tracking devices. Such devices did not exist then
aside from small scale, laboratory models.

(5) Most probably the B.U. Tele scope was brought out to
California specifically to photograph this event which had been
prearranged. That is, we had been setup to record an event which
someone in our Government knew was going to happen in advance.

(6) What we photographed that day was the first terrestrial
demonstration of what has come to be called S.D.I. or "Star
Wars." The demonstration was put on for our benefit for some
reason by extraterrestrials. It is this aspect of the event, not
merely the recording of another "flying Saucer" which caused
such consternation both on the part of Major Mansmann when he
told me "it never happened" and on behalf of the government in
its two and one half decade coverup of the event and the record
we made of it.

It is this defense-oriented aspect of the case which has caused
investigators to run into stone walls in trying to track down my
story. The Air Force has alternately denied that I was ever an
officer, that I was ever stationed at Vandenberg, that I was OIC
of Photo-optical Instrumentation in the 1369th Photographic
Squadron, that there was a tracking site at or near Big Sur,
California, that an Atlas-F, or for that matter, any other
missile was launched on or about the date or dates I reported.


Documentation

We have been able to verify through FOIA requests and my
military records everything except the specific launch and the
fact of its having been filmed We have been told first that
there were no launches, then that there were launches but no
malfunctions. Herewith, for the first time I present the
documentation for a mission malfunction in an official
unclassified Air Force document which has finally surfaced in my
collection of aging papers and books.

It was prepared by Kingston A George, dated 13 Oct. 1964 and
entitled,

OPERATIONS ANALYSIS
STAFF STUDY
PRELIMINARY REPORT ON
IMAGE ORTHICON PHOTOGRAPHY
FROM BIG SUR

In this document, "King" George gives us a quick sketch of the
whole Big Sur project, tells us that "Over the period of 30
days, from 31 August to 30 September, during which the Boston
University telescope was ready to film launches, eleven flights
were made from Vandenberg," that "a final report will be
forthcoming in a few weeks with a complete description of the
system and the operations over the past several weeks," that "a
documentary film of about 30 minutes length containing several
minutes of selected film clips will be assembled" and that one
powered flight anomaly was observed (italics mine), and the
coverage of the flights has produced enough data to show that
Big Sur photography could be an important adjunct to other
instrumentation."

It is not clear whether or not Kingston George was privy to the
screenings of the Big Sur film which recorded the UFO. My
suspicion is that he was one of those to whom Mansmann has
admitted showing the film. His document, however, states clearly
that a missile malfunctioned during the B.U. test period, now
putting the final lie to the Air Force denials.

That is my story. It is from my own experiences, recollections,
records, and hands. You are free to interpret it as you like. As
a footnote I need to comment, I suppose, on the coverup. I do
not believe that anyone is going to succeed in getting the film
on an F.O.I.A. request. I have been asked to make such a request
myself and refuse to do so. Eric Mishara, Lee Graham, T. Scott
Crain, Jr. and others have done so and have run into the wall of
futility. I don't believe that anyone can succeed in getting the
film because the fact of its existence will have been completely
expunged from the records by now.

Investigators who encounter negative replies from the Air Force,
from representatives who are at Vandenberg now are not
necessarily being deceived deliberately. Nearly 25 years have
passed and no one presently at the base has any personal
recollection of the event, much less any official record of it.
Consider the very limited number of people who saw the film in
the first place and you will comprehend how simple it was to
make it disappear.

Finally, if the government did officially "classify" the film
either back then or subsequently, then perhaps there were/are
compelling reasons for it to have done so. As the B-2 "Stealth"
Bomber has now been unveiled publicly at last, we can
contemplate the rationale for having kept it "classified" for so
long. At some point, when no harm can come from the information,
perhaps the film for which I was responsible that long ago
September day in the cool, clear mountains of Big Sur will be
made public, along with the possibly awe some technological
power which the images recorded on it represented.

One significant fact remains. The experimental tracking site
which I installed near Anderson Peak became a permanent location
for missile tracking on the Western Test Range. Moved nearer the
peak geographically and magnitudes better technically, it is
there today. You see footage from it everytime a Space Shuttle
reenters for a landing at Edwards Air Force Base. What else it
records or has recorded and its ultimate purpose for being there
is a matter for history, hopefully, to reveal.

Bob Jacobs,
Reprinted from the MUFON UFO Journal, Issue No. 249

(This web page produced for InterLink: UFO by Francis Ridge &
Bruno Mancusi & Robert Fairfax)

----------------------------------------------------------------








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   Mar > Mar 14

                 Re: Did Roswell Produce A Transistron Or A

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 01:07:41 EST
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 04:32:13 -0500
Subject: Re: Did Roswell Produce A Transistron Or A


 >From: John Auchettl <Praufo@aol.com>
 >Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 09:20:14 EST
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Subject: Did Roswell Produce A Transistron Or A Transistor?

 >Another paradox in the life of the PnP transistor.

 >Just to pre-warn you, very soon there will be a new book out
 >that will give due credit to two German physicists (Matare &
 >Welker), strange as it may seem, who independently discovered
 >the transistor only two months after the Bell Laboratory group
 >did (Bardeen, Brattain & Shockley). And the Bell story from 1947
 >to 1956 was and is still in disarray.

 >Now the odd thing - it was Westinghouse laboratory in Paris, who
 >got the solution to the same experiment? The book will not give
 >you any links to the Roswell case so don't ask, but it will show
 >that the original idea was in "transit". The German group got
 >their working model up and going in 1952 (Intermetall) a year
 >before Bell Laboratory did, and that's right - they called the
 >system a "transistron"!


This was a point I made in a previous email. Boiling away all of
the drival, you have a core claim that Army FTD seeded Roswell
technology into the private sector between 60-63 or thereabouts.
However the true development of technology and technological
innovations show that much, if not all was around long before
Corso and FTD.

For example:

The integrated circuit was invented by a man named Jack Kilby in
1958 long before the Army FTD allegedly seeded any technology to
the private sector.

Laser technology was another technology that was not seeded by
the Army into the private sector. The theory that first propsed
the process was first postulated by Albert Eienstein in 1917.
The first microwave laser was demoed in 1954, the first optical
laser was invented in 1957-58 under U.S. Patent #2,929,922. In
1960 Theodore Maimam constructed the first optical laser.

Various Night Vision schemes have been around since the late
1800s and through WW-2 where the first infared was developed in
1943 and used in WW-2 and later Korea. In 1953 Robert Wiseman
and Oscar Cleaver set up a night vision lab and project at Fort
Belvoir where they developed Gen 0 night vision then later on in
the 50s they developed Gen 1. In 1958 they used fibre optics as
part of the process. Again no Army FTD.

The invention of the transistor (which had been under
development for years previously, happened between November 17
and Dec 23, 1947 and was created/invented by Walter Brattain,
John Bardeen. As you pointed out it was also independently
invented several months later as well. Same year as Roswell but
no Corso and no Army FTD.

The point being other then "Corso said" nobody has been able to
find a shred of supporting evidence that _any_ technology along
the lines of "Corso said" was seeded into the private sector by
Army FTD during the time in question. We don't even have a shred
of evidence that Army FTD _ever_ seeded/gave/provided _any_
technology or technological innovations into the private sector
during the times in question.

Cheers,

Robert






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   Mar > Mar 14

                Re: CFI, Podesta/Mattoon & Kecksburg - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 06:23:24 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 08:31:47 -0500
Subject: Re: CFI, Podesta/Mattoon & Kecksburg - Kaeser


 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 16:25:19 -0500
 >Subject: Re: CFI, Podesta/Mattoon & Kecksburg

[most recent post deleted, since you can read the original]

John

As I've said in a private message, I believe you've made a
mistake in your approach here, and yes, we can agree to disagree
on this.

The SciFi Channel's involvement came about at a time when the
groups that form the UFO Coalition were beginning to reach a
critical point in keeping some of their operations going. While
some of the immediate problems were solved through donations
from individuals, the SciFi Channel represents a hope for an on-
going funding source for specific projects that might help to
re-invigorate the field. We've seen a number of rich individuals
with personal agendas come and go, but the SciFi Channel has so
far kept to their word and sought help and advice from us,
rather than come in with their own major proposals to save the
field.

I have no illusions that they will evolve from an entertainment
organization into a research organization, but it is fairly
common for large businesses to pick a charity and funnel
resources in that direction. This, so far, has been the case
with the SciFi Channel and the UFO Coalition. The CFI endeavor
was a first step, and I think everyone has to stop thinking of
that as the end goal in all of this.

But while they had come into this field with the understanding
that they would be highly criticized by those who are skeptical,
they now find themselves under fire from those they had thought
would be friends.

I find it odd that you've sought to have others approach the
Sci-Fi channel with ideas, and then ask that they report back to
you as to their response. What kind of reaction do you expect?
If they receive a simple form response thanking them for the
suggestion, would that mean that the SciFi Channel really isn't
listening and deserves further criticism? You've focused this
discussion on a single facet of a multi-faceted effort, picking
a weak link that you (and they) know can't be defended in the
framework you've presented. Indeed, this discussion has been
crafted in a way that would make CISCOP proud, giving the
appearance of an open mind while affording no way for an opinion
other than your own to prevail.

Don't get me wrong. I understand the concerns that have been
expressed here, and the UFO Coalition isn't going to sell out.
But so far, The SciFi Channel's interest has proven to be
genuine and it would be better to work with them rather than
have them go elsewhere for advice.

FYI, representatives of the SciFi Channel and Podesta-Mattoon
are on this List (and several others), so you can direct
questions to them if you wish. They may chose to not respond,
but you can rest assured that they feel the tone of this
discussion.


Steve







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                      Re: UFOs In The Bible - Stevenson

From: Colin Stevenson <colin@c2k2.fsworld.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 13:39:12 -0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 13:00:17 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs In The Bible - Stevenson


 >From: Chris Aubeck <caubeck@yahoo.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 21:41:13 +0000 (GMT)
 >Subject: Re: UFOs In The Bible

 >>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 19:29:50 -0800
 >>Subject: Re: UFOs In The Bible [was: Postmodernism - >Hansen]

 >>>From: George Hansen <gphansen2001@yahoo.com>
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 11:18:11 -0800 (PST)
 >>>Subject: Re: Postmodernism

<snip>

 >>>Dabrowski asserts--

 >>>"If we're still arguing about UFOs after another 1000 years,
 >>>then OK. But 50 years is not a long time in human history."

 >>>In actuality, UFOs have been recognized, discussed, and debated
 >>>for thousands of years. Just look at the UFO accounts in the
 >>>Bible. ...

 >>George,

 >>I don't see where it's debated anywhere in the Bible. It was
 >>just accepted that Yahweh would sometimes ride around in his sky
 >>chariot. Ezekiel may have tried to interpret what he saw, but
 >>where was the debate?


 >>Jim Deardorff


 >Hello Jim, George,

 >I think it would be more correct to state that while UFOs were
 >not "debated" in the Bible, theologians have spent 2000 years
 >discussing the significance of the phenomena described there.

 >However, I would take issue with the assertion that UFOs have
 >been "recognized" for thousands of years. How do you "recognize"
 >a UFO? They certainly had not been lumped together or classified
 >as such till quite recently.

-------

Hello George, Jim, Chris and all

Been holding off on reply to your posts until the penny dropped.
Unfortunately it hasn't so here we are.

If you believe the Bible to be a true account then you must
concur the following;

As God is not on Earth but 'In the Heavens' then he must be an
E.T. (ExtraTerrestrial - not on Earth) If you believe the
Biblical account of God causing Mary's pregnancy then Jesus
is/was a human/E.T. (God) hybrid which involved the manipulation
of Mary's psycology to eccept it beforehand.

On this reasoning you must realise that God (an E.T.) gets here
by means of some transport and on the same reasoning E.T. has
been arround for at least a couple of thousand years.

For anyone to denie the existance of E.T. and UFO's is to denie
any belief in the Bible.

Sorry if this post offends anyone but I felt compelled
to take the time out to post it.

May I also add that the preceeding does not affect my personal
belief in God and neither should it anyone else's and that if
Jesus rose to Heaven then he too is now an E.T.

To say that UFO's are not discussed in the Bible is absurd to a
high degree.


Kind regards

Colin









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   Mar > Mar 14

                      Another Idea Re. CFI & Kecksburg

From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net>
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 09:32:48 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 13:13:33 -0500
Subject: Another Idea Re. CFI & Kecksburg


Hi -

How about suggesting to CFI that instead of putting all
their FOIA eggs in one basket, they approach GAO with
the proverbial "short list" of say, three cases, one of
which would be Kecksburg so CFI can save face.

The actual decision would be made by the GAO.


Eleanor White







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   Mar > Mar 14

             Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S

From: Colin Stevenson <colin@c2k2.fsworld.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 14:34:34 -0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 13:16:06 -0500
Subject: Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S


 >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 23:28:11 -0800
 >Subject: Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S-

 >>From: Colin Stevenson <colin@c2k2.fsworld.co.uk>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 21:37:37 -0000
 >>Subject: Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S

<snip>

 >>Hi Larry and all

 >>What has been seen may actually be Rods

 >>http://www.roswellrods.com

 >>after a quick read of it

 >Hello Colin:

 >I may have been to harsh about 'Thumper' Subsequent posts seem
 >to indicate a certain sincerity.

 >Rods? That sounds like something sandwiched between Mel's Hole
 >and the latest from Richard Hoagland on the Coast-to-Coast late
 >night radio show.

 >If Robert (aka Thumper) ever becomes a radio guest, lets hope he
 >talks better than he writes.

 >Best wishes

 >- Larry Hatch

 >PS: Did we forget about Mel's Hole, the bottomless pit in
 >Washington State? After secret government agencies took it over,
 >Mel went out and found another one. Even Art Bell sounded a bit
 >doubtful about that.
-------------

Hello again Larry and all

Wouldn't a bottomless hole reach right through the Earth to the
other side? Someone ought to investigate it as it could be a
faster route for transport. Or is the other bottomless hole Mel
found on the other side of Earth thus proving his point? My
spell checker doesn't work at all either so part of my Windows
is in Mel's hole too. Maybe the secret government agencies
needed to fit it with a window, or multiple parts of them in
order to make a whole one.   :-)

Sorry to say, but Rods are real as we see them here in the UK
and video them too. They are also associated with Polterguist
and hauntings we believe. Many theories and observations will
prove or disprove although from my observations its somewhere
near the truth.

Believe it or not, I have a video of a Rod (approx. 6 inch)
passing straight through a Female's head


Kind regards,

Colin







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   Mar > Mar 14

                Re: Exeter NH's 'UFO Kid' Dead At 55 - Cohen

From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen@optonline.net>
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 09:42:34 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 13:22:43 -0500
Subject: Re: Exeter NH's 'UFO Kid' Dead At 55 - Cohen


 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 20:20:04 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Exeter NH's 'UFO Kid' Dead At 55

 >>Exeter UFO kid dead at 55

 >>Source: The Portsmouth Herald, New Hampshire

http://www.seacoastonline.com/news/03022003/news/15408.htm

 >>By Colleen Lent news@seacoastonline.com

 >>The death of longtime Seacoast resident Norman Muscarello,
 >>55, this past week undoubtedly rekindled discussions of his
 >>UFO sighting on Sept. 3, 1965, which made national
 >>headlines.

 >>One can almost hear excerpts of conversations around the
 >>dinner table or coffee shop counter.

 >>"Isn't he the kid who was chased by the space ship down by
 >>Dining's Farm?" or "There was a book about him by some
 >>reporter" or "Muscarello is the `Close Encounters' guy."

 >>The account of Norman's teen-age real-life experience was
 >>akin to a scene from a Steven Spielberg or George Lucas
 >>film. It soon became fodder for several articles by John G.
 >>Fuller, appearing in Reader's Digest, Look and True, before it
 >>was developed into the book "Incident at Exeter" by the same
 >>author.

 >Interesting that the newspaper story is labelled "UFO Kid...."
 >and places the sighting in the context of his whole life but
 >does not address the key UFO question: did he see a real
 >UFO, have a delusion of make it all up? Reference to two
 >policemen who also saw it is made, but not discussed. If I
 >recall correctly, this is the case that really got Klass started.
 >When Klass found out that there was a power line in the
 >vicinity he began to wonder about the possibility of large
 >plasmas being created by the corona from a power line.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Hello Bruce and gentlefolk,

Bruce, I am so sorry I missed this when you first posted it.
Probably missed an opportunity to be timely with this but, with
everything going on with the world situation the way it is, I've
been writing different kinds of posts to other groups. Since I'm
only ten days off, I'll answer this anyway.

This was a doozie of a case. The object Muscarello and the two
policemen claim to have seen in 1965 was very similar to the
object I reported in my own 1967 sighting. My sighting became a
stimulus for some research I performed re: Exeter.

You can find . . . .

Dr. Hynek's analysis of Exeter as published in the Hynek
UFO Report at:

http://www.cohenufo.org/Hynek/hynk_exeter1.htm

Larry Robinson proposed solution for it at:

http://php.indiana.edu/~lrobins/howiextr.htm

My thorough rebuttal of Robinson's theory, with excerpts from
the original John Fuller book which details the myriad flaws in
both Robinson's analysis and investigative techniques at:

http://www.cohenufo.org/rob.rebut.html

You can also find the results of Loy Lawhon's investigation and
comments regarding the proposed ball lightning or corona
discharge explanation at:

http://ufos.miningco.com/library/weekly/aa090997b.htm

When I submitted this case to Paul Devereux asking him to
explain how his "earth lights" theory or Persinger's "helmet
induced hallucinations via electromagnetic stimulation to the
brain" could solve Exeter, he refused to look at the case saying
he wasn't paid to read it.

For those not familiar with who they are, click below.

http://www.cohenufo.org/qna.html#tstels

A number of exchanges Paul and I had can be found on that page
including the first one where I brought up Exeter:

http://www.cohenufo.org/EL%20Discussions/cohdevdiscns/a1ELTST.htm

His refusal to read it can be found in his PS at the end of his
March 19, 1997 letter:

http://www.cohenufo.org/EL%20Discussions/cohdevdiscns/a3ELTST.htm

-  - -

Oh, I almost forgot. Here are two mails from February 1997
from a lady who saw my previous posts re Exeter back then and
took the time to write me. This is the first time I have ever
posted them:

E-Mail #1:

"I was really surprised to see your E-mail posting on Francisco
Lopez's UFO list about this incident. David Hunt, one of the
police officers you quoted, is my sister's father in law now. I
recently spent some time with the Hunt family in New Hampshire
and read the book and talked to Janice, David's wife. They were
married at the time of the incident.


"David doesn't talk about it, but Janice maintains his belief in
what he saw. I just thought you might be interested to know that
30 years later he is still convinced of the truth of his
statements."


JC: I asked the lady some questions and was hoping to be able to
talk to David Hunt personally. However,

E-Mail #2:

"Jerry, I actually was trying to say Janice and David were
*currently* married at the time of the incident. So what she
says, having been married to him at the time is very relevant.
:)

I'd show David your letter, but like I said, he doesn't talk
about it. Because of the book various graduate students and
ufologists contact him every now and then. He also made it into
the time life book, which you have probably seen. But he won't
talk about it. Janice sends copies of news clippings to the
students, but David won't grant interviews.

He's led a normal life, he remained in the police force for
years and has retired. I think he had to move on with his life,
since he could never prove anything. I'll see what I can find
out about the other police officer."

JC: She didn't answer anything I wrote past that point so I
continued with my posts and worked at building my web
site, which I hoped might eventually one day might become
a valuable resource to people researching some of this old
material.


Respectfully,

Jerry Cohen

http://www.cohenufo.org/







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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Mar > Mar 14

                Re: CFI, Podesta/Mattoon & Kecksburg - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 14:46:17 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 16:14:24 -0500
Subject: Re: CFI, Podesta/Mattoon & Kecksburg - Velez


 >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 06:23:24 -0500
 >Subject: Re: CFI, Podesta/Mattoon & Kecksburg

 >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 16:25:19 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: CFI, Podesta/Mattoon & Kecksburg

Hi Steve,

You wrote:

 >[most recent post deleted, since you can read the original]

You should have left it in, it would save me a lot of rewriting.
In what you have chosen to delete, I clearly state the questions
and points that are being raised.

None of which have yet to be addressed by anyone at CFI or
Podesta/Mattoon. In this e-mail you don't respond to, or
address, the questions that have been raised either.

So far, all I'm hearing from anyone connected to CFI is;
(essentially) that I should a. back off, b. I don't know what
I'm talking about and c. that I should keep my mouth shut
because I'm screwing up a 'good thing.'

Kinda like what sibling kittens do when fighting over possession
of a teat.

Thus far, there have been no direct responses forthcoming to
_any_ of the questions or points raised. What I am getting is
unsolicited advice that amounts to 'orders' to shut up and butt
out.

Don Berliner had the minerals to send me an e-mail privately
advising me to do _all_ of the aforementioned, a., b., and c. He
tells me to conduct my conversation with Leslie and the others
'privately' and out of the public arena. What is it that needs
to be kept so hush-hush?

There is something inherently wrong with asking someone to
cease exercising their freedom of speech in public. It's
presumptuous, to say the least. Who does Don imagine himself to
be that he can do that? As far as I know, we all put our
knickers on one leg at a time. I have never presumed to tell him
what to do or say, in public or how he should do it.

Balls!

Don Berliner also (defensively) accused me of "attacking" CFI
and Podesta/Mattoon. Which is simply not true at all. In point
of fact, I've been very careful and every bit the gentleman
about how I have couched/framed all of my questions and points.

All I know is; nobody seems to be answering them/responding to
them.

Everybody I've heard from so far _is_ behaving more than a
little paranoid and defensive though. That much is coming
through loud and clear.

I have a 'new' question:

Why is everybody feeling so threatened and behaving so
defensively instead of being more open, cooperative and
forthcoming? I'm not the one setting the 'tone' of the
discussion here Steve. All I did was ask a few pertinent and
legitimate questions. The 'responses' so far is what is
beginning to define the 'tone' of the discussion.

And... no one has yet addressed _any_ of my questions.

 >As I've said in a private message, I believe you've made a
 >mistake in your approach here, and yes, we can agree to disagree
 >on this.

Fine by me Steve. I think our past friendship and mutual respect
can weather a little disagreement/head-butting from time to
time. I think it's healthy and keeps everybody honest and at
their 'on their toes' best. ;)

 >The SciFi Channel's involvement came about at a time when the
 >groups that form the UFO Coalition were beginning to reach a
 >critical point in keeping some of their operations going. While
 >some of the immediate problems were solved through donations
 >from individuals, the SciFi Channel represents a hope for an on-
 >going funding source for specific projects that might help to
 >re-invigorate the field. We've seen a number of rich individuals
 >with personal agendas come and go, but the SciFi Channel has so
 >far kept to their word and sought help and advice from us,
 >rather than come in with their own major proposals to save the
 >field.

Because you conveniently edit out my questions and points it
allows you to evade responding to them and forces me to repeat
myself and to respond to things I never said.

I'm not going to do it.

If you or anybody else cannot respond to my questions directly,
I'm not obligated to re-state them ad nausium. Either read the
original post or include it in your responses. That way all I
have to do is quote myself. Not rewrite the whole thing.

Above, you are responding to something that hasn't been
questioned or even mentioned.

I am not "attacking" CFI or Podesta/Mattoon. Contrary to your
and Don Berliner's interpretation. Therefore you don't have a
need to 'defend' them publicly.

I have not questioned their value to ufology. Yet that is the
point your comment above is addressing. Again, you don't have to
justify it because nobody has called it into question.

What I wish 'someone' would do is to simply respond to the
points and questions I _did_ raise. Why is that so difficult? If
you can take the time to provide all of this 'unrelated to the
discussion' information, you can also use the time to respond to
the questions I _have_ raised. What's up?

 >I have no illusions that they will evolve from an entertainment
 >organization into a research organization, but it is fairly
 >common for large businesses to pick a charity and funnel
 >resources in that direction. This, so far, has been the case
 >with the SciFi Channel and the UFO Coalition. The CFI endeavor
 >was a first step, and I think everyone has to stop thinking of
 >that as the end goal in all of this.

Nobody here is thinking 'that way.'

What everybody should be concerned about is 'how' the valuable
resources that CFI is putting up are being used.

The other issue I raised has to do with the fact that instead of
trying to include as many experts in the field as possible in
regard to the case selection process, they have chosen to work
in what is essentially a private vacuum with just a few people,
while all the important decisions are being made by folks who
have no expertise whatsoever in the subject at hand.

That's all valid stuff/questions Steve. Nobody is addressing any
of them.

Then there's the choice of the Kecksburg case. Talk about a
potential waste of rare and valuable time and resources. Why
doesn't anybody address that, or even seem to care about it?

 >But while they had come into this field with the understanding
 >that they would be highly criticized by those who are skeptical,
 >they now find themselves under fire from those they had thought
 >would be friends.

"Under fire?"  There you go again.

For the last time:

Nobody is "attacking" anybody! Why the hell do they feel as if
they are "under fire?" What's up with all this defensiveness and
paranoia?

Steve, in the real world...

You actually have to 'make' friends before you can count on
them, or their support. So far, CFI and Podesta/Mattoon have
made some major plans and decisions behind closed doors. Plans
and decisions that affect everybody in ufology, especially the
researchers. And they are carrying out those plans and making
those decisions with only a 'few' being privy to them. And 'few'
UFO researchers having any input.

What they _have_ done is; after the fact, they announce those
plans and decisions to us and we're just supposed to fall into
line support it blindly and not question any of it.

It's like finding out you're pregnant and then trying to fall in
love.

Things/people don't work that way. If they naively thought that
they could simply impose anything they want on the public, (such
as their choice of the Kecksburg case) without consulting any of
the experts that we all respect and admire, then I guess they
were wrong to assume that mass, public support would just be
there, waiting for them, on a silver platter.

You have to give some to get some.

Another question:

Are FUFOR and a couple of others worried that their monopoly on
CFI will be usurped by an 'outsider'? Are they afraid that
another kitty may compete for their little private teat? It is
starting to come off that way. The defensiveness exhibited thus
far and the paranoia indicate that somebody is worried about
something.

The only ones who stand to 'make out' in any way from an
'exclusive' relationship to CFI is FUFOR. I'm beginning to think
that Don's objections and worries about my 'rocking the boat'
will somehow threaten his current 'exclusive' relationship and
influence with CFI.

How's that for 'telling it like it is.'

All this dancing and side-stepping of the issues only makes
sense when viewed in that light. The defensiveness, the
paranoia, all make sense. Of course they want me to keep my
mouth shut and not 'rock their boat' they're looking out for
their own beef-steak. Screw input from anybody else.

 >I find it odd that you've sought to have others approach the
 >Sci-Fi channel with ideas, and then ask that they report back to
 >you as to their response. What kind of reaction do you expect?

According to some of the research people I have talking to, CFI
didn't even acknowledge receipt of case suggestions and research
material that was submitted by several individuals.

Probably short-stopped somewhere along the way by Berliner. CFI
not only didn't consider the cases that were submitted, they
didn't dignify the effort of the research people with a
response. Not even a 'we are in receipt of your package.'

That's what I meant when I said that I'd be curious to see how
they respond to Eleanor's suggestions. So far, they've _ignored_
just about everybody else.

Still find my my comment to Eleanor "odd"?

 >If they receive a simple form response thanking them for the
 >suggestion, would that mean that the SciFi Channel really isn't
 >listening and deserves further criticism? You've focused this
 >discussion on a single facet of a multi-faceted effort, picking
 >a weak link that you (and they) know can't be defended in the
 >framework you've presented.

Gee, is that your way of saying that I've asked some pointed and
pertinent questions? That I have managed to hit the nail
squarely on the head?

If so, thank you. Yes, out of respect for Errol's work, and the
people who read this List, I go out of my way not to post unless
I have something pertinent or important to say.

BTW, the way to _strengthen_ something is by identifying the
'weak links' and replacing them with stronger ones. I'm hoping
to strengthen CFI's chances for success.

Also...

I didn't intentionally "pick" anything Steve. That's just your
"we're under attack" paranoia/mentality at work again. You
insist on making my questions sound like a planned, and
'conspiratorial' attack on CFI. Get a grip man. All I've done is
to ask some pertinent questions and point out some _blatant_
weaknesses.

 >Indeed, this discussion has been
 >crafted in a way that would make CISCOP proud, giving the
 >appearance of an open mind while affording no way for an opinion
 >other than your own to prevail.

"Crafted?"

"Affording no way for any other opinion other than my own to
prevail?"

Wow!  The depth of the defensiveness and paranoia that you
express in these unfounded statements is truly astounding.

It's not a "plot" Steve. Nor is it an exercise in 'ego
gratification'. Read what I've written man. Respond to that.
Stop trying to paint it all as some kind of intentional sabotage
or attack.

 >Don't get me wrong. I understand the concerns that have been
 >expressed here, and the UFO Coalition isn't going to sell out.
 >But so far, The SciFi Channel's interest has proven to be
 >genuine and it would be better to work with them rather than
 >have them go elsewhere for advice.

Ahhh, there we have it!

The 'fear' and the 'paranoia' is that; CFI and Podesta/Mattoon
may go somewhere else. As in CFI's money finding it's way into
someone 'other' than Don Berliner's grip and FUFOR's coffers!

Mystery solved. Now I know why you are all so defensive and
covetous of your exclusive relationship to CFI. Why you feel
'threatened.' Why so many others have been ignored and locked
out of any dealings with them.

You have just answered _all_ my questions in one fell swoop.

All I can say is:

Money is the root of all evil in the world. This is all just a
case of the rest of ufology being held at bay while the 'big
cat' eats first. How mundane. How human.

You all ought to feel deeply ashamed at perpetrating such a
public disservice. Excluding all others... damn! You ought to be
tarred and feathered.

I wonder if the people at CFI know?

 >FYI, representatives of the SciFi Channel and Podesta-Mattoon
 >are on this List (and several others), so you can direct
 >questions to them if you wish. They may chose to not respond,
 >but you can rest assured that they feel the tone of this
 >discussion.

It is you and Don Berliner who have "set the tone" of this
discussion. All I did was ask a few questions.

You are the guys who are bouncing-off-the-walls because of it.

If you don't think that readers of this List can't understand
what is being implied here by both you and Berliner, you've
sadly under-estimated their intelligence. And exposed your true
agenda in your scramble to do 'damage control'.

Case closed. You won't hear another word out of me. I got my
'answers.' They're not the ones I came for, but they are answers
nonetheless. Thank you.


Regards,

John Velez
Astounded, but not surprised, in New York






   UFO UpDates
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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Mar > Mar 14

                    Open Letter To CFI & Podesta/Mattoon

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 16:59:40 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 17:12:56 -0500
Subject: Open Letter To CFI & Podesta/Mattoon


Ladies and Gentlemen,

Regarding the role of the UFO coalition. (FUFOR, MUFON, CUFOS)

A very real 'problem' has surfaced and it just 'may be' that you
are all (CFI, Podesta/Mattoon) completely innocent in all of
this. The 'problem' I speak of is one of 'equal access.'

Apparently 'somebody' has been ignoring the voluntary input of
quite a few well known and respected UFO researchers. It begins
to look like the problem is with the coalition's exclusive
arrangement/relationship with CFI, Podesta/ Mattoon and _not_
with CFI, Podesta/Mattoon itself.

You guys have come along like the cavalry in white hats and
offered us all an opportunity to pursue disclosure on one or
more UFO cases with government officials. It takes money and
resources to launch such a program and it is going to take
enthusiastic public support to make it succeed. It's going to
take the input of as many experts as you can muster. Even if it
takes longer to accomplish.

Better to do it right than do it twice.

I am communicating with several well known UFO research people
who collectively claim to have had case submissions ignored
along with complaining that they have been allowed no input
whatsoever in the proposed program of information disclosure.

Information that is vitally important to us all.

The problem in gaining 'equal access' to your ears appears to be
in clearing the hurdle of getting past the coalition. Something
I did quite by accident here, by asking a few simple but
pertinent questions 'in public'.

That apparently scared the poo-poo out of Don Berliner who
immediately sent me an e-mail counselling me to keep my mouth
shut. "Don't discuss this in public", he asked.

Steve Kaeser has _clearly_ stated that the only real concern the
coalition has is based on their fear that you will go to
'someone else' for advice.

Does that sound 'kosher' to you? Especially in the light of the
complaints by independent UFO researchers that they are being
systematically ignored and defacto excluded from participation.

Maybe you shouldn't rely so heavily on the coalition to perform
'screening' for you. Maybe the solution to all of this is as
simple as assigning someone who is completely independent and
free of any organizational commitments or ties to handle the
input from contributing "independent" ufologists.  Such a person
can oversee a large panel of experts and coordinate the
information flow from them to you and back again. Dick Hall
would be _perfect._

The point is, it appears to be a problem of concentrating too
much power into the hands of 'few' who also have strongly vested
interests in maintaining an 'exclusive' relationship with you.

If you want to enjoy the kind of public support that is needed
to make this effort a success, you need to include more
experienced ufologists in the process. And, you need to
decentralize control of who or what gets to be considered.

Doesn't it sound much more democratic and 'American' to allow
equal access to _all_? It does to me. It's the kind of effort
that many of us could really get behind and support with
enthusiasm.

Think about it.

In sincere hopes of your eventual success,


John Velez








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   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Mar > Mar 14

             Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S

From: Barry Taylor <stingray@nor.com.au>
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 10:18:05 +1100
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 22:58:12 -0500
Subject: Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S


 >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 23:28:11 -0800
 >Subject: Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S-

 >>From: Colin Stevenson <colin@c2k2.fsworld.co.uk>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 21:37:37 -0000
 >>Subject: Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S

 >>>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 14:11:33 -0800
 >>>Subject: Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S

<snip>

 >>>That makes at least 3 important websites the fellow wrote to. I
 >>>think that's a lot of successful work for somebody who cannot
 >>>spell, nor parse a sentence, nor distinguish between the subject
 >>>line and the body of an email.

 >>>Why do I smell a rat?

 >>>The seemingly deliberately rough-hewn message I got gave no
 >>>details at all about dates, time, place, etc. .. not even the
 >>>name of the documentary.

 >>>Could this be a test? .. Things like that are sometimes
 >>>done by psychology or journalism departments .. (snip)

 >>What has been seen may actually be Rods

 >>http://www.roswellrods.com/

 >>after a quick read of it

 >I may have been to harsh about 'Thumper' Subsequent posts seem
 >to indicate a certain sincerity.

 >Rods? That sounds like something sandwiched between Mel's Hole
 >and the latest from Richard Hoagland on the Coast-to-Coast late
 >night radio show.

 >If Robert (aka Thumper) ever becomes a radio guest, lets hope he
 >talks better than he writes.

 >Best wishes

 >- Larry Hatch

 >PS: Did we forget about Mel's Hole, the bottomless pit in
 >Washington State? After secret government agencies took it over,
 >Mel went out and found another one. Even Art Bell sounded a bit
 >doubtful about that.


This WWII footage 'thumper' was viewing would have originally
been 16mm B/W film footage. Because of this, and taking into
account the age of the footage before conversion to video, the
"UFO's" 'thumper' was seeing would most probably be the stains,
film 'glitches' and streaks we often see on old 16 and 35mm film
stock.

These are characteristic film marks and scratches associated
with aging film stock. The footage would also be copies of
copies of copies (or 3rd or 4th generation copies) To the
untrained inexperienced eye some of these film defects may
appear to be fast flying UFO's as the film stain or defect
quickly appears to flash across the screen within only a few
frames.

Similar defect effects are seen on video tape when a speck of
dust is picked up between the tape and recording head during
record.

However these types of defects are all horizontal streaks due to
the video tape movement direction. Yet they can sometimes give
the visual impression that a "UFO" may be quickly streaking
across the screen from left to right.

And as far as Rods are concerned, there is no such thing.

All so called Rods I have seen presented as evidence, including
my own experiments (extensive at that) I can confidently
conclude them to be "Motion Blur of fast flying insects". (Even
at 1/10,000th shutter speed) End of story.

And a recent post.....

 >From: Colin Stevenson <colin@c2k2.fsworld.co.uk>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 21:37:37 -0000
 >Subject: Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S

 >Believe it or not, I have a video of a Rod (approx. 6 inch)
 >passing straight through a Female's head


Colin, have a closer look at this footage and you will see that
a fast moving insect flies "behind" her head.

If the "Rod" is 6 inches long, than why do you need to slow down
the footage frame-by-frame to see it? Because it is "Motion
Blur" of a smaller object (insect)

Barry Taylor




Personal UFO Web Site
http://theozfactor.cjb.net
OR
http://home.manyrivers.aunz.com/stingray/

Original site - (Est.1996)
http://www.nor.com.au/users/stingray/







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Mar > Mar 14

             Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S

From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 01:01:12 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 23:00:37 -0500
Subject: Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S


 >From: Colin Stevenson <colin@c2k2.fsworld.co.uk>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 14:34:34 -0000
 >Subject: Re; Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S

 >>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 23:28:11 -0800
 >>Subject: Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S-

 >>>From: Colin Stevenson <colin@c2k2.fsworld.co.uk>
 >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 21:37:37 -0000
 >>>Subject: Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S

 ><snip>

 >>>What has been seen may actually be Rods

 >>>http://www.roswellrods.com

 >>>after a quick read of it

 >>I may have been to harsh about 'Thumper' Subsequent posts seem
 >>to indicate a certain sincerity.
 >
 >>Rods? That sounds like something sandwiched between Mel's Hole
 >>and the latest from Richard Hoagland on the Coast-to-Coast late
 >>night radio show.

 >>If Robert (aka Thumper) ever becomes a radio guest, lets hope he
 >>talks better than he writes.

 >>PS: Did we forget about Mel's Hole, the bottomless pit in
 >>Washington State? After secret government agencies took it over,
 >>Mel went out and found another one. Even Art Bell sounded a bit
 >>doubtful about that.

 >Hello again Larry and all
 ><commercial break>

 >Believe it or not, I have a video of a Rod (approx. 6 inch)
 >passing straight through a Female's head


Colin,

I wonder if I read you wrong but in the above are you talking
about an X rated video?

Thanks,

Josh









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   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Mar > Mar 14

             Re: Open Letter To CFI & Podesta/Mattoon - Aldrich

From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 20:46:36 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 23:03:13 -0500
Subject: Re: Open Letter To CFI & Podesta/Mattoon - Aldrich


 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 16:59:40 -0500
 >Subject: Open Letter To CFI & Podesta/Mattoon

 >Ladies and Gentlemen,

 >Regarding the role of the UFO coalition. (FUFOR, MUFON, CUFOS)

 >A very real 'problem' has surfaced and it just 'may be' that you
 >are all (CFI, Podesta/Mattoon) completely innocent in all of
 >this. The 'problem' I speak of is one of 'equal access.'

 >Apparently 'somebody' has been ignoring the voluntary input of
 >quite a few well known and respected UFO researchers. It begins
 >to look like the problem is with the coalition's exclusive
 >arrangement/relationship with CFI, Podesta/ Mastodon and _not_
 >with CFI, Podesta/Mattoon itself.

 >You guys have come along like the cavalry in white hats and
 >offered us all an opportunity to pursue disclosure on one or
 >more UFO cases with government officials. It takes money and
 >resources to launch such a program and it is going to take
 >enthusiastic public support to make it succeed. It's going to
 >take the input of as many experts as you can muster. Even if it
 >takes longer to accomplish.

 >Better to do it right than do it twice.

 >I am communicating with several well known UFO research people
 >who collectively claim to have had case submissions ignored
 >along with complaining that they have been allowed no input
 >whatsoever in the proposed program of information disclosure.

 >Information that is vitally important to us all.

 >The problem in gaining 'equal access' to your ears appears to be
 >in clearing the hurdle of getting past the coalition. Something
 >I did quite by accident here, by asking a few simple but
 >pertinent questions 'in public'.

 >That apparently scared the poco-poco out of Don Berliner who
 >immediately sent me an e-mail counseling me to keep my mouth
 >shut. "Don't discuss this in public", he asked.

 >Steve Kaeser has _clearly_ stated that the only real concern the
 >coalition has is based on their fear that you will go to
 >'someone else' for advice.

 >Does that sound 'kosher' to you? Especially in the light of the
 >complaints by independent UFO researchers that they are being
 >systematically ignored and de facto excluded from participation.

 >Maybe you shouldn't rely so heavily on the coalition to perform
 >'screening' for you. Maybe the solution to all of this is as
 >simple as assigning someone who is completely independent and
 >free of any organizational commitments or ties to handle the
 >input from contributing "independent" urologists. Such a person
 >can oversee a large panel of experts and coordinate the
 >information flow from them to you and back again. Dick Hall
 >would be _perfect._

 >The point is, it appears to be a problem of concentrating too
 >much power into the hands of 'few' who also have strongly vested
 >interests in maintaining an 'exclusive' relationship with you.

 >If you want to enjoy the kind of public support that is needed
 >to make this effort a success, you need to include more
 >experienced urologists in the process. And, you need to
 >decentralize control of who or what gets to be considered.

 >Doesn't it sound much more democratic and 'American' to allow
 >equal access to _all_? It does to me. It's the kind of effort
 >that many of us could really get behind and support with
 >enthusiasm.

 >Think about it.

 >In sincere hopes of your eventual success,

Hi John,

A little bit of clarification is called for here. A few
colleagues and I put together down and dirty proposals for
research in areas which mainly involve UFO history. There were
also some very compelling cases and issues concerning National
Security. The 1975 Overflights are cases in point. There are
others. Also, the 1975 incidents appear not just confined to the
"Northern Tier" as some describe it. Reports came from other
nuclear facilities. I wouldn't want to get hemmed in here just
doing the "Overflight" as they may have indeed been a massive
intrusion exercise to determined what corrective measures were
called for in similar real world situations.

I don't think we expected to win support for all or any of our
proposals. Will any of our proposals lead to a smoking gun?
Quite unlikely.

In some cases this exercise would bring together large amounts
of data, interviews and other research conducted over the years
supplemented by further current efforts. The goal would be to
compile all this material together into some kind of coherent
story.

Our research also implies that large amounts of material may be
awaiting discovery. Like the "purloined letter" this material
is probably hidden in plain sight. Trying to discuss the
results with other non-UFO researchers concerned with government
documents has resulted in little interest. Such researchers
seem completely uninterested, perhaps because they don't trust
the research or that they envision having to go back and repeat
many of their previous FOIAs and other research all over again.

Without any smoking gun or even a guarantee that any of our
proposed research would bear significant results, I have no
problems with people not considering this for funding. To do
anything that approaches a credible job would require many
thousands of dollars.

A brief word on the GAO. The Roswell investigation was not a
UFO investigation. If one reads the correspondence and
formative documents, one will see that the rational for the GAO
investigation was to determined if records of crashes, aircraft
and balloons were properly documented and kept.

The GAO would probably be interested in cases which have a
national security angle. I don't expect them to take up UFO
cases per se.



Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
http://www.project1947.com/
P. O. Box 391
Canterbury, CT 06331
(860) 546-9135







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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Mar > Mar 14

                 Re: Did Roswell Produce A Transistron Or A

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
Date: 15 Mar 2003 03:12:54 -0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 23:06:33 -0500
Subject: Re: Did Roswell Produce A Transistron Or A


 >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 01:07:41 EST
 >Subject: Re: Did Roswell Produce A Transistron Or A Transistor?

 >>From: John Auchettl <Praufo@aol.com>
 >>Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 09:20:14 EST
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Subject: Did Roswell Produce A Transistron Or A Transistor?

 >>Another paradox in the life of the PnP transistor.

 >>Just to pre-warn you, very soon there will be a new book out
 >>that will give due credit to two German physicists (Matare &
 >>Welker), strange as it may seem, who independently discovered
 >>the transistor only two months after the Bell Laboratory group
 >>did (Bardeen, Brattain & Shockley). And the Bell story from 1947
 >>to 1956 was and is still in disarray.

 >>Now the odd thing - it was Westinghouse laboratory in Paris, who
 >>got the solution to the same experiment? The book will not give
 >>you any links to the Roswell case so don't ask, but it will show
 >>that the original idea was in "transit". The German group got
 >>their working model up and going in 1952 (Intermetall) a year
 >>before Bell Laboratory did, and that's right - they called the
 >>system a "transistron"!

 >This was a point I made in a previous email. Boiling away all of
 >the drival, you have a core claim that Army FTD seeded Roswell
 >technology into the private sector between 60-63 or thereabouts.
 >However the true development of technology and technological
 >innovations show that much, if not all was around long before
 >Corso and FTD.

Robert,

Seeding isn't the best way to describe the process between the
FTD and the business community. As Corso explained it,
fertilizing existing fields and crops, or "greasing the skids"
would more aptly apply.


 >For example:

 >The integrated circuit was invented by a man named Jack Kilby in
 >1958 long before the Army FTD allegedly seeded any technology to
 >the private sector.

If you'd read 'The Day After Roswell', you'd see that this
statement is silly and uninformed. Corso never said he had
anything to do with introducing the integrated circuit. They did
try to help it along but Corso explains that the circuit was in
existence when they came on the scene.

 >Laser technology was another technology that was not seeded by
 >the Army into the private sector. The theory that first propsed
 >the process was first postulated by Albert Eienstein in 1917.
 >The first microwave laser was demoed in 1954, the first optical
 >laser was invented in 1957-58 under U.S. Patent #2,929,922. In
 >1960 Theodore Maimam constructed the first optical laser.

 >Various Night Vision schemes have been around since the late
 >1800s and through WW-2 where the first infared was developed in
 >1943 and used in WW-2 and later Korea. In 1953 Robert Wiseman
 >and Oscar Cleaver set up a night vision lab and project at Fort
 >Belvoir where they developed Gen 0 night vision then later on in
 >the 50s they developed Gen 1. In 1958 they used fibre optics as
 >part of the process. Again no Army FTD.

Your huge disadvantage in this argument is that you haven't read
the book you're discussing. Here's the way Corso & FTD operated,
in a nutshell:  Corso divided the various pieces of debris into
separate areas of technology by doing his own research and
asking the advice of experts. He wrote a report that analyzed
and summarized this information and broke it down into
categories, which he and the General then prioritized. Exemplar
debris fragments were taken directly to businesses that were
working on specific technologies, and asked if the businesses
could benefit from the sample and would they like a guaranteed
contract to work on the technology, usually on a time and
expense basis. That's how it worked. I'm quite sure most
businesses accepted their offer.

 >The invention of the transistor (which had been under
 >development for years previously, happened between November 17
 >and Dec 23, 1947 and was created/invented by Walter Brattain,
 >John Bardeen. As you pointed out it was also independently
 >invented several months later as well. Same year as Roswell but
 >no Corso and no Army FTD.

Corso never made the claim that he seeded the transistor. I'd
encourage you to read the book. The chapter on the transistor is
mostly historical information and background. It's interesting
and informative. But it's not about Corso or FTD introducing the
transistor.

 >The point being other then "Corso said" nobody has been able to
 >find a shred of supporting evidence that _any_ technology along
 >the lines of "Corso said" was seeded into the private sector by
 >Army FTD during the time in question. We don't even have a shred
 >of evidence that Army FTD _ever_ seeded/gave/provided _any_
 >technology or technological innovations into the private sector
 >during the times in question.

The reason that no one has found anything is that few are
looking. Folks like yourself, who haven't read a word of the
book, go around hill and dale preaching anti-Corso gospel, and
unfortunately you're believed.


Ed








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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
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   Mar > Mar 14

             Re: Open Letter To CFI & Podesta/Mattoon - Aldrich

From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 20:46:36 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 23:03:13 -0500
Subject: Re: Open Letter To CFI & Podesta/Mattoon - Aldrich


 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 16:59:40 -0500
 >Subject: Open Letter To CFI & Podesta/Mattoon

 >Ladies and Gentlemen,

 >Regarding the role of the UFO coalition. (FUFOR, MUFON, CUFOS)

 >A very real 'problem' has surfaced and it just 'may be' that you
 >are all (CFI, Podesta/Mattoon) completely innocent in all of
 >this. The 'problem' I speak of is one of 'equal access.'

 >Apparently 'somebody' has been ignoring the voluntary input of
 >quite a few well known and respected UFO researchers. It begins
 >to look like the problem is with the coalition's exclusive
 >arrangement/relationship with CFI, Podesta/ Mastodon and _not_
 >with CFI, Podesta/Mattoon itself.

 >You guys have come along like the cavalry in white hats and
 >offered us all an opportunity to pursue disclosure on one or
 >more UFO cases with government officials. It takes money and
 >resources to launch such a program and it is going to take
 >enthusiastic public support to make it succeed. It's going to
 >take the input of as many experts as you can muster. Even if it
 >takes longer to accomplish.

 >Better to do it right than do it twice.

 >I am communicating with several well known UFO research people
 >who collectively claim to have had case submissions ignored
 >along with complaining that they have been allowed no input
 >whatsoever in the proposed program of information disclosure.

 >Information that is vitally important to us all.

 >The problem in gaining 'equal access' to your ears appears to be
 >in clearing the hurdle of getting past the coalition. Something
 >I did quite by accident here, by asking a few simple but
 >pertinent questions 'in public'.

 >That apparently scared the poco-poco out of Don Berliner who
 >immediately sent me an e-mail counseling me to keep my mouth
 >shut. "Don't discuss this in public", he asked.

 >Steve Kaeser has _clearly_ stated that the only real concern the
 >coalition has is based on their fear that you will go to
 >'someone else' for advice.

 >Does that sound 'kosher' to you? Especially in the light of the
 >complaints by independent UFO researchers that they are being
 >systematically ignored and de facto excluded from participation.

 >Maybe you shouldn't rely so heavily on the coalition to perform
 >'screening' for you. Maybe the solution to all of this is as
 >simple as assigning someone who is completely independent and
 >free of any organizational commitments or ties to handle the
 >input from contributing "independent" urologists. Such a person
 >can oversee a large panel of experts and coordinate the
 >information flow from them to you and back again. Dick Hall
 >would be _perfect._

 >The point is, it appears to be a problem of concentrating too
 >much power into the hands of 'few' who also have strongly vested
 >interests in maintaining an 'exclusive' relationship with you.

 >If you want to enjoy the kind of public support that is needed
 >to make this effort a success, you need to include more
 >experienced urologists in the process. And, you need to
 >decentralize control of who or what gets to be considered.

 >Doesn't it sound much more democratic and 'American' to allow
 >equal access to _all_? It does to me. It's the kind of effort
 >that many of us could really get behind and support with
 >enthusiasm.

 >Think about it.

 >In sincere hopes of your eventual success,

Hi John,

A little bit of clarification is called for here. A few
colleagues and I put together down and dirty proposals for
research in areas which mainly involve UFO history. There were
also some very compelling cases and issues concerning National
Security. The 1975 Overflights are cases in point. There are
others. Also, the 1975 incidents appear not just confined to the
"Northern Tier" as some describe it. Reports came from other
nuclear facilities. I wouldn't want to get hemmed in here just
doing the "Overflight" as they may have indeed been a massive
intrusion exercise to determined what corrective measures were
called for in similar real world situations.

I don't think we expected to win support for all or any of our
proposals. Will any of our proposals lead to a smoking gun?
Quite unlikely.

In some cases this exercise would bring together large amounts
of data, interviews and other research conducted over the years
supplemented by further current efforts. The goal would be to
compile all this material together into some kind of coherent
story.

Our research also implies that large amounts of material may be
awaiting discovery. Like the "purloined letter" this material
is probably hidden in plain sight. Trying to discuss the
results with other non-UFO researchers concerned with government
documents has resulted in little interest. Such researchers
seem completely uninterested, perhaps because they don't trust
the research or that they envision having to go back and repeat
many of their previous FOIAs and other research all over again.

Without any smoking gun or even a guarantee that any of our
proposed research would bear significant results, I have no
problems with people not considering this for funding. To do
anything that approaches a credible job would require many
thousands of dollars.

A brief word on the GAO. The Roswell investigation was not a
UFO investigation. If one reads the correspondence and
formative documents, one will see that the rational for the GAO
investigation was to determined if records of crashes, aircraft
and balloons were properly documented and kept.

The GAO would probably be interested in cases which have a
national security angle. I don't expect them to take up UFO
cases per se.



Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
http://www.project1947.com/
P. O. Box 391
Canterbury, CT 06331
(860) 546-9135







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   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Mar > Mar 15

              Re: Open Letter To CFI & Podesta/Mattoon - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 00:59:25 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 15:21:47 -0500
Subject: Re: Open Letter To CFI & Podesta/Mattoon - Velez


 >From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 20:46:36 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Open Letter To CFI & Podesta/Mattoon

 >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 16:59:40 -0500
 >>Subject: Open Letter To CFI & Podesta/Mattoon

 >>Ladies and Gentlemen,

 >>Regarding the role of the UFO coalition. (FUFOR, MUFON, CUFOS)

 >>A very real 'problem' has surfaced and it just 'may be' that you
 >>are all (CFI, Podesta/Mattoon) completely innocent in all of
 >>this. The 'problem' I speak of is one of 'equal access.'

<snip>

Hi Jan,

You wrote:

 >A few colleagues and I put together down and dirty proposals for
 >research in areas which mainly involve UFO history. There were
 >also some very compelling cases and issues concerning National
 >Security. The 1975 Overflights are cases in point. There are
 >others. Also, the 1975 incidents appear not just confined to the
 >"Northern Tier" as some describe it. Reports came from other
 >nuclear facilities. I wouldn't want to get hemmed in here just
 >doing the "Overflight" as they may have indeed been a massive
 >intrusion exercise to determine what corrective measures were
 >called for in similar real world situations.

Yeah, but those Minuteman missiles were neutralized in their
silo's Jan. That one national security component, in conjunction
with the presence of the UFOs which were hovering at the gates
of these bases, lifts this set of cases head and shoulders above
many others.

Cases such as the ones we are discussing are what got my dander
up over the selection of Kecksburg. Kecksburg for Keerists sake,
to the exclusion of so many other great cases. It just boggled
my mind.

In the end, the air force may trot out a pile of Russian missile
junk (not unlike what they did with those balloon fragments in
the Roswell case,) and claim that that is what was recovered in
the woods outside of Kecksburg in 1965. If CFI fails with
Kecksburg it could give ufology a black eye that could take a
decade to recover from. That is my 'fear'. Failure with
Kecksburg could dig the hole we're already in, deeper. I wish
these guys were going in with more than just Kecksburg.

 >I don't think we expected to win support for all or any of our
 >proposals. Will any of our proposals lead to a smoking gun?
 >Quite unlikely.

Hey man, that should be left up to a panel of your peers to
decide. That's what I've been bitching about. Everything is
being decided behind closed doors, with only a few 'team
players' privy to the goings on. It's all very incestuous.

Berliner and Kaeser are more concerned that CFI will actually
consult with someone else than they are about insuring the
participation of their own peers. Judging by the folks I have
spoken to (several of which you know) nobody else can get close
to CFI. 'Some folks' want to suckle at that teat all by their
lonesome.

How do you like those garbanzos?

 >In some cases this exercise would bring together large amounts
 >of data, interviews and other research conducted over the years
 >supplemented by further current efforts. The goal would be to
 >compile all this material together into some kind of coherent
 >story.

That would take time. These folks are charging through like an
elephant in a glass factory. No time to think, no time to seek
consensus, Kecksburg is the one, like it or not.

The whole thing sux moose pepperoni. In only three days I have
gone from 'hopeful' to completely bummed at recent
responses/revelations/developments. Who'da thunk it? Certainly
not I.

 >The GAO would probably be interested in cases which have a
 >national security angle. I don't expect them to take up UFO
 >cases per se.

The Northern Tier missile base cases would fill the bill nicely.
But again, that should be determined by a panel of the best
minds we can assemble. It appears that it ain't gonna happen
this time buckaroo.

We'll wait for the next opportunity to roll by. Maybe 'one day'
we'll get to do this the right way. Without all the smoke-
filled, back-room intrigue. Man, can you believe some of the
responses I have gotten to a few simple questions? Whoa Nelly!
Amazing! Stomp-down, hard-core loco.

Ufology _is_ a crazy, pocket draining, and sometimes scary
business.


Regards,

John Velez, concerned citizen






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   Mar > Mar 15

                      Re: Vandenberg AFV Case - Hebert

From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com>
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 02:33:32 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 15:23:49 -0500
Subject: Re: Vandenberg AFV Case - Hebert


 >From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 06:36:26 +0100
 >Subject: Vandenberg AFV Case

<snip>

 >Conclusions
 >Academicians first gather data, then postulate conclusions based
 >on what they find. From what I have gathered first hand,
 >(primary evidence), pieced together from Mansmann, from a fine
 >researcher named Lee M. Graham), from contemplation, discussion
 >and debate of the material, as well as from the Air Force
 >position on this and other related matters, I have come to the
 >following conclusions:

 >(1) What we photographed that September day in 1964 was a solid,
 >three-dimensional, intelligently controlled flying device.

 >(2) It emitted a beam of energy, possibly a plasma beam, at our
 >dummy warhead and caused a malfunction.

How does he know it was possibly a "plasma" beam? Why not laser?
Why not something else? Leap of faith /speculation.

 >(3) This "craft" was not anything of which our science and
 >technology in 1964 was capable. The most probable explanation of
 >the device, therefore, is that it was of extraterrestrial
 >origin.

Unless he was privy to all the secret projects of that time,
around the world, there is no way this individual can rule out
man-made technologies nor does he have enough information to
declare the device of "probable" extraterrestrial origin.

 >(4) The flashing strikes of light we recorded on film were not
 >from laser tracking devices. Such devices did not exist then
 >aside from small scale, laboratory models.

Again, how does he know it was not from some form of laser
tracking devices? Just because he was not aware of such man-made
devices doesn't necessarily mean it was extraterrestrial.

 >(5) Most probably the B.U. Tele scope was brought out to
 >California specifically to photograph this event which had been
 >prearranged. That is, we had been setup to record an event which
 >someone in our Government knew was going to happen in advance.

If someone in the government knew it was going to happen in
advance, why would they allow various military personnel to view
an incident if they would want it kept secret? Wouldn't they
employ some of their own staff who had higher security clearance
than the average Joe who might not keep it secret?

And why did they call him in to view the footage? If he didn't
know the UFO was there, why give him a private screening so he
would be sure to see the UFO and cause even further security
concerns? Is it possible they wanted him to see and perceive a
UFO? Why did this individual go public with his story? Is this
information or disinformation?

Are we being led toward the truth or away from it?

I have learned to analyze stories, reports, claims, etc. in a
similar way I was taught to analyze behavior. Sometimes when you
look beyond the surface, you begin to see aspects that don't
always correlate with what's being said. Doesn't mean it's a lie
but it doesn't mean it's the truth either.

I highly recommend several grains of salt with this story.


Thank you, Josh.

A. Hebert









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   Mar > Mar 15

             Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 01:09:59 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 15:25:51 -0500
Subject: Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S


 >From: Colin Stevenson <colin@c2k2.fsworld.co.uk>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 14:34:34 -0000
 >Subject: Re; Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S

 >>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 23:28:11 -0800
 >>Subject: Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S-

<snip>


 >>>Hi Larry and all

 >>>What has been seen may actually be Rods

 >>>http://www.roswellrods.com

 >>>after a quick read of it

<snip>

 >>Rods? That sounds like something sandwiched between Mel's Hole
 >>and the latest from Richard Hoagland on the Coast-to-Coast late
 >>night radio show. [snip]

 >>Best wishes

 >>- Larry Hatch

 >>PS: Did we forget about Mel's Hole, the bottomless pit in
 >>Washington State? After secret government agencies took it over,
 >>Mel went out and found another one. Even Art Bell sounded a bit
 >>doubtful about that.

-------------

 >Hello again Larry and all

 >Wouldn't a bottomless hole reach right through the Earth to the
 >other side?

<snip>

Actually, no. A hole to the center would be enough. -LH

 >Sorry to say, but Rods are real as we see them here in the UK
 >and video them too. They are also associated with Polterguist
 >and hauntings we believe. Many theories and observations will
 >prove or disprove although from my observations its somewhere
 >near the truth.

 >Believe it or not, I have a video of a Rod (approx. 6 inch)
 >passing straight through a Female's head

 >Kind regards,

 >Colin


Hello Colin:

Video images of rods are quite real. As for their physical
existence as some truly anomalous objects (not flying bugs for
example) I would agree their credibility is comparable to that
of poltergeists and hauntings.


Best wishes

- Larry








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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Mar > Mar 15

             Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S

From: Colin Stevenson <colin@c2k2.fsworld.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 16:24:01 -0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 15:29:21 -0500
Subject: Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S


 >From: Barry Taylor <stingray@nor.com.au>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 10:18:05 +1100
 >Subject: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S

 >>From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 01:01:12 +0100
 >>Subject: Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S

 >>><very big snip>

 >>>Hello again Larry and all
 >>><commercial break>

 >>>Believe it or not, I have a video of a Rod (approx. 6 inch)
 >>>passing straight through a Female's head

 >>I wonder if I read you wrong but in the above are you talking
 >>about an X rated video?


 >Colin, have a closer look at this footage and you will see that
 >a fast moving insect flies "behind" her head.

 >If the "Rod" is 6 inches long, than why do you need to slow down
 >the footage frame-by-frame to see it? Because it is "Motion
 >Blur" of a smaller object (insect)


Hello Josh and Barry

Mearly mentioned rods to maybe be an explanation for the UFO
seen in the documentary. If rods are actually insects then maybe
the UFO on the documentary also shows insects. If rods exist or
not, as I say in my post, is still being investigated and may or
may not be true. Never seen an insect fly at a persons head, go
arround the head faster than approuch then continue its course
having picked up the hair dye (red) of the person?

Mind you having seen rods hanging from a ceiling of a derelict
property, dropping and flying arround at tremendous speed and
also seeing them hanging from a cave ceiling may be a
hallucination? As are the photographs and video footage taken?

Misconception of that seen and filmed may apply but as l said in
my post they are under investigation as are the shrivelled dead
bodies of them killed by sulphur powder. So I agree that rods do
not exist and are a camera artifact or they are insects - sorry,
no.

Also agree that footage of rods should be XXX rated as they can
sometimes seem horrific in their action and flight.


col










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               Rods [was: Watching World War 2 Documentrie...]

From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 05:25:33 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 12:45:25 -0500
Subject: Rods [was: Watching World War 2 Documentrie...]


 >From: Colin Stevenson <colin@c2k2.fsworld.co.uk>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 16:24:01 -0000
 >Subject: Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S

 >>From: Barry Taylor <stingray@nor.com.au>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 10:18:05 +1100
 >>Subject: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S

 >>>From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 01:01:12 +0100
 >>>Subject: Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S

 >>>><very big snip>

 >>>>Hello again Larry and all
 >>>><commercial break>
 >
 >>>>Believe it or not, I have a video of a Rod (approx. 6 inch)
 >>>>passing straight through a Female's head
 >
 >>>I wonder if I read you wrong but in the above are you talking
 >>>about an X rated video?
 >
 >>Colin, have a closer look at this footage and you will see that
 >>a fast moving insect flies "behind" her head.
 >
 >>If the "Rod" is 6 inches long, than why do you need to slow down
 >>the footage frame-by-frame to see it? Because it is "Motion
 >>Blur" of a smaller object (insect)

 >Mearly mentioned rods to maybe be an explanation for the UFO
 >seen in the documentary. If rods are actually insects then maybe
 >the UFO on the documentary also shows insects. If rods exist or
 >not, as I say in my post, is still being investigated and may or
 >may not be true. Never seen an insect fly at a persons head, go
 >arround the head faster than approuch then continue its course
 >having picked up the hair dye (red) of the person?

 >Mind you having seen rods hanging from a ceiling of a derelict
 >property, dropping and flying arround at tremendous speed and
 >also seeing them hanging from a cave ceiling may be a
 >hallucination? As are the photographs and video footage taken?

 >Misconception of that seen and filmed may apply but as l said in
 >my post they are under investigation as are the shrivelled dead
 >bodies of them killed by sulphur powder. So I agree that rods do
 >not exist and are a camera artifact or they are insects - sorry,
 >no.

 >Also agree that footage of rods should be XXX rated as they can
 >sometimes seem horrific in their action and flight.


Hello Colin,

Can you please describe and explain exactly how Rods "are under
investigation as are the shriveled bodies of them killed by
sulphur powder"? What are the shriveled bodies?


Thanks,

Josh









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                 The WHY? Files - Additions/Updates 03-16-03

From: Geoff Richardson <geoff@fastdog.karoo.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 15:33:58 -0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 12:51:51 -0500
Subject: The WHY? Files - Additions/Updates 03-16-03


A number of video files have been added to The WHY? Files, see:

Black Triangles, Area 51, Bob Lazar, NASA Astronauts and
UFOs,The Un-secret NASA Videos, The Moon Files etc...
Contemporary Radio Bulletin (Audio) - see "Roswell".

http://www.thewhyfiles.co.uk


Geoff Richardson







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   Mar > Mar 16

                   Potential US Navy UFO Whistle-Blowers?

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net>
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 22:34:33 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 12:56:58 -0500
Subject: Potential US Navy UFO Whistle-Blowers?


[LWB Note: Here's the draft text of an advertisement I plan to
  place in one or more weekly newspapers serving the interest of
  U.S. Navy personnel]

Let the UFOinfo Flow!

If you've read retired Army Lt. Col. Philip J. Corso's memoirs
"The Day After Roswell" (about his role in the U. S. military's
exploitation of certain artifacts from the 1947 crash-landed UFO
retrieved near Roswell, N.M.), you know that the U.S. Navy also
received a share of those artifacts.

And if you happen to be the Navy equivalent of Corso the Cosmic
Whistleblower, you now have a chance to follow in his footsteps
via a project aimed at picking up where he left off. To whit: a
group of researchers/writers are offering you the chance to
expand the Corso precedent - by working with us to produce _your_
very own UFO-back-engineering memoirs.

We want to help you share your untold account with a public
eager to hear it -- before the undertaker lands at your
doorstep.

For more information, please contact Larry W. Bryant, as
follows: . . . .







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   Mar > Mar 17

                                 UFO Romania

From: Valentin Manoliu <ozn@dr.com>
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 04:23:36 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 13:35:26 -0500
Subject: UFO Romania


Hello,

I'm Valentin Monoliu and I would like you to visit my webpage:

http://energienucleara.go.ro

The Accelerator Of Particles
The Nuclear Fusion
The Great Unification
The "Corona" Efect
The Negative Mass


Best regards,

Valentin Manoliu

energienucleara@go.ro







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                            'Beyond' Merchandise

From: Philip Mantle <philipmantle@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 11:46:43 -0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 13:37:31 -0500
Subject: 'Beyond' Merchandise


Beyond Publications are pleased to announce the availability of
their wholesale merchandise catalogue. A unique collection of
hand made and hand painted artefacts have been designed and
produced by special effects artist Rob Townshend whose movie
credits include: Star Wars-Special Edition and Lord of the
Rings.

This unique merchandise covers a wide range of subjects
including aliens, archaeological artefacts, ancient Egyptian
artefacts and much more.

For a free wholesale catalogue please contact:

Lisa Sykes,
Beyond Publications,
PO Box 168,
Park Road,
Colton,
Leeds,
West Yorkshire,
England,
LS15 9TJ.

Tele: 0113 260 1133.
Fax: 0113 260 0010.
E-mail: lisamsykes@lycos.com

www.beyondpublications.com

This free full colour brochure can be sent to you either via e-
mail or in hard copy. Please specify your preference. If a hard
copy is required please provide your mailing address.

The retailing of this unique merchandise will provide you with
an excellent way of increasing the revenue to help with
individual research costs, magazine or newsletter publishing,
and group/organisation funding.

Please feel free to distribute this message accordingly and we
look forward to hearing from you in due course.

Kind regards,

Lisa Sykes.
Beyond Publications.









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   Mar > Mar 17

                                 Thank You!

From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 07:49:02 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 13:39:16 -0500
Subject: Thank You!


To Listarians Who Have Family or Relatives in the Military:

I and my family send our sincerest thank you for your and their
dedication to keeping this nation safe and giving the people of
Iraq a new beginning out from under tyranny. Our prayers are
with all the brave men and women who uphold the highest
principles of honor, justice and freedom.

God Bless. Be Safe and Remember, WE CARE!

Lock and Load, "Let's Roll!"


Wendy Connors (former military) & Joe Stone








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                       Historical Artwork & UFOs Site

From: Matthew Hurley <m.hurley@ntlworld.com>
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 07:44:36 -0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 13:33:24 -0500
Subject: Historical Artwork & UFOs Site


Dear All,

Following the success of my site set up December 2000, I have
now had my site revamped and is now at:

http://www.ufoartwork.com

Details of my long awaited book The Alien Chronicles are on
there...


Thanks

Matthew Hurley








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   Mar > Mar 18

              UFO Wave & Humanoid Sightings Hit Northern Chile

From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 21:26:59 -0300
Fwd Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 13:43:26 -0500
Subject: UFO Wave & Humanoid Sightings Hit Northern Chile


UFO Wave and Humanoid Sightings Hit Northern Chile


 From Dr. Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo
Miami UFO Center
ufomiami@prodigy.net
3-16-03

Northern Chile has begun witnessing a new wave of UFO sightings
in recent days. There have been reports of people seeing strange
flying objects on a daily basis within the past two weeks. Last
Sunday, February 23rd of 2003, many people on the streets of
Calama saw a bright object flying across the city. Another
similar object appeared during the following morning. Many
skeptics believed these were weather balloons; however, some of
these objects were very bright and appeared to suddenly change
speed and direction. There have been daily reports of these
objects almost everywhere in the city of Calama.

The first flying object was seen in different parts of the city,
as well as San Pedro of Atacama, near Route CH-25. Many
residents saw the bright object near the airport, flying so fast
that it disappeared. Nevertheless, the object seemed to reappear
again several times, and in different locations. Many
eyewitnesses even had time to go get their binoculars to get a
better look at it. Those with binoculars reported that the
object was circular, bright, and it appeared to change colors
from yellow to red.

A local television news channel began broadcasting live images
of the object at approximately 3:30 PM. The live video coverage
ended at 5:30 PM. According to the news reporters and cameramen,
the object changed its flight course several times; in fact, by
the end of the live broadcast, it had already flown from north
to south and east to west covering the majority of the city
area. The Office of Civil Protection issued a statement with
regards to this strange event. They announced that due to the
lack of information, they were not sure what the object was.

A young boy said he saw a similar object on February the 11th,
at approximately 4:00 PM. He described the UFO as looking like
an eye. The boy claims that he saw the bright object as he was
standing outside of his house. According to him, the sighting
lasted about three minutes. During an interview with Calama UFO
Center, the boy indicated that the object flew at a slow speed
from south to north. The object later disappeared into what he
described as an S-shaped cloud or contrail.

On Sunday, February the 23rd, at 6:55 AM, while waiting at a bus
stop, two labor contractors saw yet another similar object. One
of the gentlemen by the name of Omar Acevedo, was interviewed by
Calama UFO Center. He described the object as flying very slow.
It was seen at about 10 kilometers from the hills in the west
side of Calama. According to Mr. Acevedo, it was a yellow
sphere, which moved from south to north, in an area where no
commercial airplanes fly. He s absolutely sure that it was no
airplane. During that time, the sun was not out yet. Therefore
the object was emitting its own light; it was not the reflection
of the sun. It was no weather balloon either, he said; the
object appeared to be traveling against the direction of the
wind.

On Monday, February 24 of 2003, at approximately 09:35 PM,
another object was seen flying in a rectilinear pattern, moving
from northwest to southeast. It flew slightly faster than a
commercial airliner. The object was spherical in shape and
bright yellow. It did not appear to emit flashes or any other
light patterns. This particular object was also seen very far
from any commercial aircraft routes. Another similar object was
seen near the Calama Hills by a warehouse employee by the name
Enrique Cortez. However, this particularly object seem to change
colors from red to yellow, approximately every 10 seconds.

Roberto Troncoso Rodriguez, a 20-year-old asphalt-processing
plant worker in Calama, reported seeing another bright object in
the south side of the city. He was among 10 other eyewitnesses
at the asphalt plant that reported seeing the same object on
February the 22nd, at approximately 3 in the afternoon. Roberto
said that the silver-colored object appeared to be spinning on
its own axis. The object stayed spinning in the same location
for a few minutes without traveling in any direction.

Roberto is a civil engineer assistant and he s very
knowledgeable when it comes to calculating distances,
particularly because his road construction team delivers and
applies asphalt to highways on a daily basis it is part of his
job to calculate distances and pavement estimates. According to
him, the object was at an altitude of about 1500 meters. He also
mentioned that the object emitted a strong light that at times,
it was so bright that prevented the object from being seen.
During other instances, the object would disappear for a few
seconds. Rodriguez also mentioned that the object would
sometimes change its shape from spherical to oval. Then, it
would suddenly disappear. I don t know what particular kind of
weather balloon can do these things, he said.

REPORTS OF HUMANOID CREATURES AND OTHER BIZARRE PHENOMENA

In the days before, and during the recent UFO sightings in the
region, there have been other phenomena reported by the local
news media. Last Sunday, a woman from a nearby village said
during a radio interview, that she saw another round object
flying at very low altitude about 4 feet from the ground.
According to her, the object came very close to her and tried to
take her away by using some kind of force to pull her towards
it. She said that she managed to avoid being taken by holding on
to a small tree until the object finally gave up and left.

On Sunday, February the 23rd, brothers Francisco and Jos=E9
Carrizo, reported seeing a humanoid creature as they were
arriving home. According to them, the creature was dark and it
looked more like a humanoid shadow, rather than just a humanoid
being. It was on top of the roof. It made a loud noise when it
jumped to the lower roof, said Francisco. Our mother was very
frightened because she had been listening to it running around
the roof for a few minutes before we arrived. Jos=E9 mentioned
that they live in a location where animal mutilations have
occurred before.

Previously and in the same area, a coal miner by the name of
Luis Sepulveda saw another strange creature. On November 28 of
last year, at approximately 3:30 AM, Mr. Sepulveda and his co-
workers were preparing their tools and mining equipment before
going to a mining facility known as La Banda, located at about
40 meters from the Loa River.

Since there were no bathrooms available because we hadn't set up
our camp site yet, I had to go to the woods to urinate behind
the trees. I walked about 15 meters into the woods. The area was
not completely dark; there seemed to be a little bit of
moonlight. Suddenly, at about 3 meters away from me, out of the
corner of my eye, I saw what appeared to be a small tree moving
from side to side, as if the wind was hitting it. But then, I
realized that there was no wind at all; therefore that tree
shouldn't have been moving. I decided to turn around to take a
better look at it, but what I saw was so eerie and bizarre that
I think I will never forget it. It was no tree at all. It was a
dark hairy creature mimicking a tree, with its arms wide open
and moving its upper body from side to side just like trees do,
said Sepulveda.

There had been dozens of different types of strange creatures
reported in the area, but never before we had received reports
of creatures mimicking trees. The hairy humanoid creature that
Mr. Sepulveda saw appeared to be disguising itself as a tree
when it noticed his presence in the area. It appeared to be
camouflaging itself like some reptiles and insects do to avoid
being found by predators. Despite the fact that Sepulveda
realized, after taking a better look, that it had no leaves or
branches, the creature continued to mimic a tree. It was well-
hidden and located among the bushes, so without looking at it
directly, it would have appeared to be just like any other tree
to the ordinary eye.

STRANGE AIRCRAFT

Since previous months, during many animal mutilation cases,
there have been many strange-looking aircraft in the area. Some
of these aircraft fit the typical manmade visual
characteristics, just like any other ordinary airplane or
helicopter. However, there are others that are not so ordinary.
Sometimes, there might be unmarked black helicopters or
airplanes in the area. Additionally, there have been many
eyewitnesses that report seeing black flying triangles that
hardly look manmade at all. On Wednesday, the 26th of February,
our associate Jaime Ferrer, videotaped a strange looking
aircraft. Jaime believes that the flying craft was manmade
because of it speed, and because it emitted a sound similar to a
jet engine; however, the engine seemed to be very quiet at least
half as noisy as an average jet engine.

The object originally appeared to be a solid white light, but
six times bigger than the brightest star. As it was flying by,
the light soon split into two lights. Then, ten seconds later,
it divided itself into three lights, and so on until there were
5 white lights and a red light. The aircraft flew into the
mountains outside the city, where no aircraft dare go due to the
dangers of terrain.

The bizarre UFO and strange aircraft activity continues on a
daily basis in Northern Chile. There are many reports still
being filed of people seeing strange flying objects, and in some
cases, sightings of strange-looking helicopters present in the
same area where the UFOs appear. Due to the incredible increase
of reports, the Calama UFO Center has maintained a daily sky
vigil, with camcorders and digital cameras ready to respond to
the continuing wave of strange sightings. On Friday, February
the 28th, at approximately 12:15 PM, Jaime Ferrer videotaped an
unmarked helicopter flying around the entire city for several
hours. Although it was no black helicopter, it did appear to
have different colors than the ones that usually fly in the
area, which most of the times belong to the local mining
companies. The helicopter cabin appeared to be bright silver-
colored and its tail was black. Nevertheless, it flew and
sounded just like any other helicopter. However, what was
unusual about it was the time of the day it was flying, and how
it appeared to be looking for something all over the city and
its outskirts.

  MORE UFOs AND STRANGE ACTIVITY AT THE AIRPORT

On March the 5th, 2003, several people reported seeing another
UFO near the local airport in Calama, Chile. The object appeared
in broad daylight, yet it was bright enough to be quite
noticeable by a great number of people in different parts of the
city. The first report came from people standing at a bus stop
next to the Ekono Supermarket, in the northeast area of Calama.
Each eyewitness mentioned that the object appeared to be a
white, about the same size as what the planet Venus looks like
in the sky, but several times brighter.

According to eyewitnesses, the bright object appeared and then
it would disappear in a synchronized manner every 5 to 10
seconds, apparently without moving in any direction. The UFO
sighting lasted about 3 minutes.

Another eyewitness, a taxi driver by the name of Carlos reported
seeing the same object from the opposite side of the city the
Southwest of Calama, in a neighborhood called Caspana. These
sightings have been happening so often and for the most part, in
the same area, which causes many people to joke around and call
that area ovnipuerto, meaning UFO Airport or landing base.

During the recent UFO wave that has been taking place since mid
February in Calama, there have been additional sightings of
strange looking humanoid creatures, appearing mostly at night. A
group of catholic school students, most of them about 15 years
of age, reported seeing a strange being near their house. The
strange noises on the rooftops and in their backyards at night
reminded them of a previous sighting two years ago, when they
saw a strange figure standing about 1.2 meters tall. The being
appeared to move around not by walking, but by making small
leaps.

Aside from the UFO wave still in effect, the airport authorities
have decided to close down the airport for approximately the
entire month of June. Officials have issued a press release
stating that the airport will be remodeled and the runway will
be expanded in order to receive international flights and
accomodate bigger types of aircraft, including from private
organizations.

Reports gathered by Jaime Ferrer

Translation by Mario Andrade








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   Mar > Mar 18

                     Abductions/Mack In Psychology Today

From: Peter Resta <spr100@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 13:14:23 EST
Fwd Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 13:49:02 -0500
Subject: Abductions/Mack In Psychology Today


Dear List:

I just saw latest edition (April, 2003) of Psychology Today
Magazine with a feature article on John Mack's work & the
abduction phenomena. I haven't had a chance to read article,
yet - but at first blush, it would seem to worthwhile examining.


Peter Resta







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                       UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 12

From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 14:43:16 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 13:51:13 -0500
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 12


Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor.

<Masinaigan@aol.com>
==========================

       UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 8, Number 12
March 19, 2003
Editor: Joseph Trainor

http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/


XENDRA APPEARS AGAIN,
THIS TIME IN BRAZIL

       The Xendra (pronounced Shenn-drah--J.T.), a luminous
blue arch reputed to be an extraterrestrial
interdimensional gateway, has appeared again, this time in
northern Brazil.
       According to Brazilian ufologist Eustaquio Andrea
Patounas, the weird glowing arch appeared on eight
consecutive evenings over the grounds of the Maceio Mar
Hotel in Maceio, the seaport capital of the state of
Alagoas.  The Xendra appeared just hours after a UFO was
seen flying over the city.  (See UFO Roundup, volume 8,
number 11 for March 12, 2003, "UFO flap sweeps Brazil,"
page 5.)
       "For the last eight days (Sunday, March 2, 2003 to
Monday, March 10, 2003) a strange blue portal has
appeared," Patounas reported, "It was also seen by
fishermen just offshore, who radioed questions about the
phenomenon to the maritime authorities.  It was an
interdimensional portal that energized and appeared to
move and hover over the sea just offshore.  This is the
first time such a thing has been seen in Alagoas (state)."
       Another witness living in the bairro Ponte Verde in
Maceio's east end reported that he first noticed "a
strange bright glow" over the lengthy beach to the west of
his neighborhood and then "saw the blue arch."
       The Xendra was seen for the first time nearly a year
ago in Los Cipreses National Park, near Rancagua in Chile.
A Chilean UFO group, holding a weekend seminar in the
park, saw the luminous blue arch materialize over their
campsite.  Twenty-four of the participants claimed to have
entered the portal where they encountered bald-headed
aliens wearing long robes.  (See UFO Roundup, Volume 7,
Number 16 for April 16, 2002, "The Xendra mystery," page
1.)
       So far the Xendra phenomenon has only been reported
in South America.
       Maceio is on Brazil's South Atlantic shore, located
about 1,050 kilometers (630 miles) northeast of Rio de
Janeiro.  (Muito obrigado a Eustaquio Andrea Patounas e
otros por eso caso.)


SMALL ALIEN SIGHTED NEAR
SCHOOL IN CALAMA, CHILE

       A small alien was sighted near a Roman Catholic high
school in the barrio Caspana (neighborhood) of Calama, a
small city in Chile north of Antofagasta.
       According to Chilean ufologist Jaime Ferrer, "In late
February, a group of Catholic high school students, most
of them 15 years of age, reported seeing a strange being
near their campus.  They heard strange noises on the
rooftops of other houses in the neighborhood.  They saw a
strange figure standing 1.2 meters (3 feet, 9 inches)
tall.  The being appeared to move around not by walking
but by making small leaps."
       On Wednesday, March 5, 2003, "several people reported
seeing another UFO over the local airport in Calama.  This
object appeared in broad daylight.  Yet it was bright
enough to be quite noticeable by a great number of people
in different parts of the city."
       "The first report came from people standing at a bus
stop next to the Ekono Supermarket, in the northeastern
section of Calama.  Each eyewitness noticed that the
object appeared to be white and was about the same size as
Venus but several times brighter.  According to
eyewitnesses, the bright object appeared, and then it
would disappear in a synchronized manner every 5 to 10
seconds, apparently without moving in any direction.  The
UFO sighting lasted about three minutes."
       "A taxi driver named Carlos reported seeing the same
object from the opposite side of the city, in barrio
Caspana," on the southwest side of Calama.  These
sightings have been happening so often and, for the most
part, in the same area, which has caused many people to
jokingly call the area Ovnipuerto. (Spanish for UFO Port--
J.T.)."  (Muchas gracias a Jaime Ferrer y Mario Andrade
del Centro UFO de Calama, y tambien a Dr. Virgilio Sanchez
Ocejo de Miami UFO Center para esos informes.)


LUMINOUS DISC SIGHTED IN
EASTERN PENNSYLVANIA

       On Saturday, March 15, 2003, at 1:45 a.m., the
eyewitness, Camasse, was outdoors in her hometown of
Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania (population 43,123)  when she
"saw a white glowing disk flying around by the full moon.
It flew at a downward angle and stopped.  Went upward and
stopped.  Then it went from left to right.  It also went
in and out of the clouds.  I watched it for five minutes."
       Wilkes-Barre, Pa. is on Interstate Highway I-81
approximately 112 miles (179 kilometers) north of
Philadelphia.  (Email Form Report)


LUMINOUS UFOs SEEN AGAIN
IN BRITISH COLUMBIA

       On Monday, March 3, 2003, at 7:55 p.m., two men from
Houston, British Columbia, Canada (population 3,934) "were
travelling by truck along Provincial Highway 16 just east
of Houston.  Just before they got to Perow, B.C., there
was a huge farmer's field which runs for a long way, with
a buffer of trees (shelterbelt in the USA--J.T.) between
the field and the highway.  The passenger 'first noticed a
large object parallelling them along the highway.'  The
driver looked at the speedometer and said he was doing 50
kilometers per hour (30 miles per hour).  The distance
between the witnesses and the object would have been
approximately 300 to 400 feet (90 to 120 meters)."
       Both the driver and his passenger "described the
object as looking like an Airstream trailer and the size
was close to a Greyhound bus.  The object stayed straight
across from the truck as they drove along.  It paced the
vehicle.  The passenger rolled down the window to see if
he was able to hear any sound coming from the object.  But
none was heard."
       "After approximately 750 meters, the craft turned
slowly from the highway, wobbled slightly, sped up,
wobbled once again and then shot off out of sight very
quickly."
       On Friday, March 7, 2003, at 7:30 p.m., the female
witness reported, "Me and my daughter were ready to leave
in the truck when we both looked up and saw this bright
white light shoot over towards Mount Hays," near Prince
Rupert, B.C. (population 16,714).  "Travelling southeast
for two to three seconds, it just blinked out when it was
over Mount Hays.  It was the biggest light that we have
ever seen."
       "My daughter told me that she had seen the same thing
two weeks ago while with her friend Patricia at 4:30 a.m.,
but that object wasn't as bright as this one was."  (Many
thanks to Canadian ufologist Brian Vike for these
reports.)



ASTRONOMER LEADS FIGHT
AGAINST MOON HOAX
CONSPIRACY THEORISTS

       "Phil Plait, 38-year-old astronomer and skeptic, was
on the California State University, Northridge campus
Friday," March 14, 2003, "punching holes in the tenacious
myth that American astronauts never landed on the moon."
       "Given the crowd, Plait didn't have much persuading
to do.  His talk was sponsored by the university's
Department of Physics and Astronomy, and the room was full
of people who know one end of a telescope from another.
But many Americans cling to the view that the landings
were staged--6 percent of those surveyed in a 1999 Gallup
poll had their doubts, uncertainty fed by a steady stream
of television shows, books and videotapes that claim that
NASA was part of a vast government conspiracy."
       "But when Plait asked his 75 listeners if any
believed the moon landings were a hoax, only one young man
raised his hand."
       "Wearing sneakers and a blue NASA cap, the astronomer
ticked off the arguments presented in a 2001 FOX TV show,
Conspiracy Theory: Did We Land on the Moon? seen by more
than 6 million viewers.  He systematically refuted each
claim."
       "On the staff at Sonoma State University in northern
California, Plait is part of a program that develops
educational activities based on NASA science and
technology.  He debunks on his own time, as part of an
informal community of scientists who thinks it's important
to counter the pseudoscientific notions that seem to
flourish in the United States."
(Editor's Comment: You mean, like the belief that a long-
dead Galilean carpenter can be somebody's personal
savior?)
       "Sometimes, he confessed, taking on the conspiracy
theorists seems like a lot of effort that could be better
spent, say, doing astronomy.  Plait paraphrases the famous
observation: 'Never wrestle with a pig.  You'll just get
dirty, and the pig enjoys it.'  But, he said, he believes
it's important to give people 'the tools they need to
think critically about these arguments and realize they
are wrong.'"
       "Look at the American flag supposedly being planted
on the moon, the moon hoaxers say.  If the astronauts were
really on the moon, which has no atmosphere, why is the
flag waving?"
       "Plait explains that the astronauts caused the flag
to move as they drilled the flagpole into the surface of
the moon; inertia creates the apparent waving motion."
(Editor's Comment: Which leaves the intriguing question of
why the wave motion stopped after several minutes,
especially when no counter-force was applied by the
astronauts to halt the inertia of the original motion.)
       "Twenty-year-old student Joseph Farar was the one
person who confessed to believing that the moon landing
was a hoax.  Afterward, he explained that he had a friend
who knew somebody who claimed to work for the movie
company that was hired by NASA to fake the landing.   The
conspiracy theorists point to the lack of stars in the
photos as evidence that an event was staged.  The studio
employee in Farar's friend's story said the moviemaker
forgot to put in the stars."
       "Farar said Plait hadn't changed his mind, but he
said he was going to look deeper into the evidence.  And
he said he thought there were others in the audience who
believed it was a hoax but didn't want to admit it."  (See
the Duluth, Minn. News-Tribune for March 16, 2003,
"Astronomer debunks moon landing conspiracy theory," page
14A.)


READER FEEDBACK:

SCOTTISH MALL SIGHTING A HOAX

        Noel Wallace of Scotland's East Kilbride UFO Club
writes, "This is just to let you know that the East
Kilbride UFO Club has investigated the alleged sighting at
the Kingsgate Retail Park and have come to the conclusion
that it was a hoax."  (See UFO Roundup, volume 8, number 9
for February 26, 2003, "Large silver UFO hovers over
Scottish mall," page 5.)
       "We have been unable to contact any further
witnesses, nor have we been able to contact the owners of
the cars in the alleged traffic accident.  The police
don't have records of one, either."
       "The supposed witness never even got in touch with
us.  Not even through his friend who originally reported
the sighting and spoke to us.  Therefore, we can only
assume that she was the victim of a prank by him."



  From the UFO Files...

2003: THE ALIENS AND THE
             SHUTTLE COLUMBIA

                         By Der Voron

       "The crash of the space shuttle Columbia occurred on
February 1, 2003.  Soon, many versions were offered to
explain it.  Here we would like to propose an explanation
for this crash.  Let us analyze all the facts."
       "(1)  The breakup occurred at a very great height,
over 40 miles.  This excludes any possibility for the
supposed Earth-based attackers to shoot it with existing
land-to-air missiles (like the Patriot or S-200/S-300/S-
400--D.V.), as none of these would be able to reach the
height of even close to 40 miles.  Others may entertain
the possibility of an attack, with the use of special
missiles or laser guns, launched by a Russian satellite,
or other space device, or Russian high-altitude strategic
bomber (Tupolev TU-95 or TU-160--D.V.) that somehow could
approach or cross the U.S. border.  Those who believe that
this is the truth may use, as a kind of 'supportive
information,' the following fact: just about 20 minutes
after the crash, RosAviaKosmos, the Russian space agency,
believed that it might have been caused by a technical
defect."
       "(2)  Some sources, including RosAviaKosmos, claim
that a little fragment of a shuttle's protective surface
layer that had fallen off the shuttle at the start on
January 16, 2003, caused the formation of further splits,
which then resulted in an explosion.  Other sources,
however, claim that during the time Columbia was in orbit,
NASA specialists analyzed the problem and came to the
conclusion that it couldn't influence the flight.  This
sounds a bit odd, since unprotected areas can very easily
catch on fire because of air friction."
       "So, actually, there may be two explanations for
Columbia's crash."
       "(I)  Hot air friction sparked a fire in the damaged
(unprotected--D.V.) area while Columbia was descending at
a speed of about 3.8 miles per second.  The fire burnt
through the unprotected area and then reached the internal
areas of the shuttle, its engines and fuel tanks."
       "The problem with this scenario is that it could
easily have occurred during the shuttle's takeoff, when
its speed and air friction were approximately the same as
when landing, and when the shuttle had much more fuel than
during landing."
       "(II)  It was shot down by extraterrestrials.  Maybe
they didn't use any weapons to crash it, but simply
approached in their craft, causing Columbia's electronics
and engines to fail because of the effect of the alien
starcraft's electromagnetic field.  It also may be that an
alien craft had approached the Columbia without any
malicious intent, but that its electromagnetic field
effects on Columbia's electronics and engines was
unforeseen by the aliens."
       "This, however, doesn't explain why the shuttle
exploded in the air, instead of merely plummeting to
Earth.  Thus, the more likely scenario is that the
Columbia was show down by the alien craft."
       "If so, the question arises--what did the aliens wish
to show mankind by their actions?  Possibly that chemical-
based engines (which are used even by such advanced craft
as space shuttles--D.V.) have about reached their peak
effectiveness and reliability--and it is time to develop
and actively use more reliable engines."
       "Today's weapons and missiles, which are much less
effective than ray and/or laser weapons, have
approximately the same condition."
(Editor's Note:  Der Voron is the author of the book
Unidentified Flying Objects: Starcraft, PublishAmerica
Books, Baltimore, Maryland, USA, copyright 2002.  For
readers wishing to order this book at a local bookstore,
the ISBN number is 1-59129-738-9.)

       Well, that's it for this week.  Join us next time for
more UFO, Fortean and paranormal news from around the
planet Earth, brought to you by "the paper that goes home-
-UFO Roundup."  See you in seven days!

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2003 by Masinaigan Productions, all
rights reserved.  Readers may post news items from UFO
Roundup on their websites or in news groups provided that
they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list
the date of issue in which the item first appeared.

E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com>
or use the Sighting Report Form at:

http://www.ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm

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   Mar > Mar 18

                           Secrecy News - 03/18/03

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 11:31:25 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 14:38:38 -0500
Subject: Secrecy News - 03/18/03


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2003, Issue No. 23
March 18, 2003


**      NRO WANTS TO "KNOW EVERYTHING"
**      FOIA IMPLEMENTATION IN DISARRAY
**      HOMEFRONT CONFIDENTIAL
**      IN CONGRESS
**      IN THE NEWS


NRO WANTS TO "KNOW EVERYTHING"

"Our goal is transparency," said Peter B. Teets, director of the
National Reconnaissance Office (NRO), which develops, launches
and operates the nation's spy satellites.

"We want the ability to see everything and know everything,
while simultaneously denying our adversaries both the ability to
do the same, and the knowledge that such capabilities are being
used against them."

These are busy days for U.S. military space programs.  "We have
12 national security space launches scheduled for 2003, compared
to only one conducted in 2002," said Mr. Teets at a March 12
hearing of the Senate Armed Services Committee.

With increasing bandwidth and decreasing classification
restrictions, "We have made great progress over the decades in
expanding the range of those exploiting these space capabilities
from a small set of strategic users to multiple government
agencies and virtually the entire warfighting force," Teets
said.  "But we need to do more."

Mr. Teets, who is also an Under Secretary of the Air Force,
provided a rare public description of Air Force "offensive
counterspace" (OCS) programs for disabling other countries'
satellites.

"We currently have two OCS projects underway.  The first is the
Counter Communication System (CCS), a capability intended to
disrupt satellite-based communications used by an enemy for
military C3, and scheduled for first delivery in FY04. The
second is the Counter Surveillance Reconnaissance System (CSRS),
intended to impair an enemy's ability to obtain targeting,
battle damage assessment, and information by denying their use
of satellite imagery with reversible, non-damaging effects.
  CSRS is currently in the initial design phase, with operational
units scheduled by FY07," Mr. Teets testified.

See the prepared testimony of Peter B. Teets from the March 12
Senate Armed Services Committee hearing here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2003_hr/031203teets.html

Other testimony from that hearing on national security space
programs may be found here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2003_hr/index.html#space

"We are so dominant in space that I pity a country that would
come up against us," said Air Force director of space operations
Major General Judd Blaisdell at a March 12 Air Force press
briefing on military space.  See:

  http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Mar2003/t03122003_t0312spa.html


FOIA IMPLEMENTATION IS IN DISARRAY

The federal government's infrastructure for processing Freedom
of Information Act requests is in "extreme disarray," according
to a study conducted by the National Security Archive.

"Agency contact information on the web was often inaccurate;
response times largely failed to meet the statutory standard;
only a few agencies performed thorough searches including e-mail
and meeting notes; and the lack of central accountability at the
agencies resulted in lost requests and inability to track
progress," the Archive found.

Among other things, the report provides some empirical data on
the impact of the October 2001 Ashcroft memorandum on FOIA
policy, finding that most agencies did not alter their FOIA
procedures in response.

See the March 14 National Security Archive assessment here:

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB84/press.htm


HOMEFRONT CONFIDENTIAL

A new study from the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the
Press examines "how the war on terrorism affects access to
information and the public's right to know."

Beginning with a comprehensive chronology of official actions to
curtail public access to government information since September
11, the study discusses a spectrum of issues affecting freedom
of the press and public access.

See the March 2003 report entitled "Homefront Confidential"
here:

http://www.rcfp.org/homefrontconfidential/


IN CONGRESS

The "Freedom to Read Protection Act" (HR 1157) would amend the
Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act to exempt libraries and
bookstores from any requirement to comply with foreign
intelligence investigations.  The new bill would "protect
libraries, bookstores and their patrons from unjustified
government surveillance into what books Americans are reading
and buying, and what websites they may be visiting when using a
library computer," said Rep. Bernie Sanders, the bill's
principal sponsor.  See:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2003_cr/hr1157.html

The "Military Tribunals Act of 2003" would replace  the Bush
Administration's military commissions, that were established
unilaterally by executive order, with statutorily-based military
tribunals.  The bill (HR 1290), introduced March 13 and
sponsored by Reps. Adam Schiff, Barney Frank and others, would
"preserve the basic rights of habeus corpus, appeal, and due
process," Rep. Schiff said.  See:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2003_cr/hr1290.html


IN THE NEWS

The state of government secrecy policy was critically surveyed
at a March 14 conference sponsored by the Freedom Forum's First
Amendment Center on the occasion of National Freedom of
Information Day.  See "Press Not Spotlighting Government Secrecy
'Cloak'" by Harry F. Rosenthal, March 17:

http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/news.aspx?id=6504

The awkward attempts to integrate intelligence, domestic
surveillance and homeland security functions are reviewed in
"Intelligence reorganization spotlights fabled FBI-CIA rift" by
Drew Clark, National Journal Technology Daily, March 17:

http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/0303/031703cdam1.htm

The shocking claim that the 1953 Supreme Court ruling which
established the "state secrets" privilege was based on false
government affidavits is updated in the newsletter Inside the
Air Force, which notes that the privilege was recently invoked
to block a whistleblower lawsuit alleging fraud in the missile
defense program.  See "Supreme Court Filing Claims Air Force,
Government Fraud in 1953" by Hampton Stephens, Inside the Air
Force, March 14, reposted with permission here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2003/03/iaf031403.html


_______________________________________________

Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood@fas.org
voice:  (202) 454-4691







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   Mar > Mar 18

                           Re: Thank You! - Clark

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 12:58:17 -0600
Fwd Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 14:41:56 -0500
Subject: Re: Thank You! - Clark


 >Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 07:49:02 -0700
 >From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
 >To: UFO Updates <UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Thank You!

Hi, Wendy,

 >To Listarians Who Have Family or Relatives in the Military:

 >I and my family send our sincerest thank you for your and their
 >dedication to keeping this nation safe and giving the people of
 >Iraq a new beginning out from under tyranny. Our prayers are
 >with all the brave men and women who uphold the highest
 >principles of honor, justice and freedom.

 >God Bless. Be Safe and Remember, WE CARE!

 >Lock and Load, "Let's Roll!"

 >Wendy Connors (former military) & Joe Stone


Hi, Wendy,

I don't want to encourage the List to get off track for more
than a moment here. But since Errol has posted your message,
perhaps he will indulge one from an American, one of a great
many (I have no trouble finding them even in the little
Midwestern town where I reside), who has a different point of
view - namely that our un-elected President's rush to war will
soon prove a catastrophe of historic proportions, as virtually
every informed observer here and around the world has warned.

Of course we all support our troops and wish them well. That is
not the same thing as supporting the policy, or the civilian
leadership (practically none of which, by the way, has ever
served in uniform, thus the phrase "chickenhawk"), that put them
in harm's way for reasons even it cannot articulate with any
coherence or consistency.


Cordially,

Jerry Clark







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   Mar > Mar 18

                           Re: Thank You! - Woods

From: Mike Woods <mike.woods@rogers.com>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 15:26:26 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 18:07:59 -0500
Subject: Re: Thank You! - Woods


From: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
To: <- UFO UpDates Subscribers 06 - :>
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 1:39 PM
Subject: UFO UpDate: Thank You!


 >Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 07:49:02 -0700
 >From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
 >To: UFO Updates <UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Thank You!
 >
 >
 >To Listarians Who Have Family or Relatives in the Military:

 >I and my family send our sincerest thank you for your and their
 >dedication to keeping this nation safe and giving the people of
 >Iraq a new beginning out from under tyranny. Our prayers are
 >with all the brave men and women who uphold the highest
 >principles of honor, justice and freedom.

 >God Bless. Be Safe and Remember, WE CARE!

 >Lock and Load, "Let's Roll!"

 >Wendy Connors (former military) & Joe Stone

Dear Wendy & Joe,

Although it might cost me acquaintances here... let one
Canadian, at least, echo those sentiments. May the freedom we
take for granted here be spread around the world. Unfortunately,
the short sighted and timid we've elected leaders in this
country seem to have forgotten the one indisputable lesson of
history.

To live in freedom, you must be will to die for freedom.


Ex-Canadian soldier

Michael J. Woods







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   Mar > Mar 18

                          Re: Thank You! - Connors

From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 13:42:29 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 18:14:05 -0500
Subject: Re: Thank You! - Connors


 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 12:58:17 -0600
 >Subject: Re: Thank You! - Clark

 >>Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 07:49:02 -0700
 >>From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
 >>To: UFO Updates <UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Subject: Thank You!


<snip>

 >Hi, Wendy,

 >I don't want to encourage the List to get off track for more
than a moment here. But since Errol has posted your message,
perhaps he will indulge one from an American, one of a great
many (I have no trouble finding them even in the little
Midwestern town where I reside), who has a different point of
view - namely that our un-elected President's rush to war will
soon prove a catastrophe of historic proportions, as virtually
every informed observer here and around the world has warned.

Hi Jerry,

I agree that Listers shouldn't make a thread out of this. But, I
appreciate your position and certainly agree we can disagree.
It's what makes this nation so darn great and hard for other
nations to understand.

You are probably right in your perceptions. However, I'm a
realist and believe that the fanatics of the world have pretty
much come to power because many nations do not care for their
people and tribal mentality doesn't work like it did a thousand
years ago, nor do nations built under the dogma of religious
fervor free people from tyranny. This isn't about oil or even
weapons of mass destruction. It's a clash between civilizations
and the necessity for change in the human condition. It's part
of life itself, inevitable and a condition of our species
methodolgy to survive through change.


Wendy Connors







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   Mar > Mar 18

                         New Bentwaters Documentary

From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 21:42:32 -0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 18:15:07 -0500
Subject: New Bentwaters Documentary


On Saturday March 15, BBC 3 (a UK digital TV channel) screened a
new documentary on the Bentwaters case. The programme had been
made by Mentorn, an independent production company, and was
entitled "Britain's Closest Encounter".

The programme fell, broadly speaking, into three parts. Firstly,
Charles Halt and Jim Penniston gave an overview of the two main
incidents, and their involvement in them. Secondly, ufologists
Brenda Butler, Dot Street and Jenny Randles talked about the
early days of the investigation into this case. Finally, a broad
range of ufologists, scientists and experts gave their differing
views on what had happened.

The Ministry of Defence did not put up an official spokesperson,
but I made some general comments (in a private capacity) about
how and why the British Government investigates UFO sightings.
Former Chief of the Defence Staff Lord Hill-Norton made it clear
that he believes the events were of defence significance.

The lighthouse hypothesis was the main theory put forward by
sceptics, but Charles Halt was familiar with the lighthouse, and
stated that it was visible at the same time as the UFO.

The comments I have seen so far, both from believers and
sceptics, have been negative. Programme consultant Georgina
Bruni has been criticised by people who were expecting more new
data, but I do not believe this is fair comment. In researching
her book on the case, "You Can't Tell The People", Georgina
built up a rapport with many of the witnesses, several of whom
she now counts as friends. More importantly from a research
point of view, she secured testimony from several new witnesses,
together with new documents and photographs from the Ministry of
Defence and the USAF. It was Georgina's hope that the programme
would focus more on the witnesses (especially the new ones) than
the ufologists, and initial indications were encouraging.
Ultimately, however, budgetary and time constraints precluded
the participation of most of these people. But this was
Mentorn's decision, not Georgina's.

The programme will be repeated on BBC 3 this Saturday evening as
part of a UFO theme night. It may be shown on BBC 2 at a later
date, though no firm arrangements have been made. US viewers may
get a chance to see it, perhaps on the Sci-Fi Channel, but
again, no firm arrangements have yet been made.

Best wishes,

Nick Pope







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   Mar > Mar 18

                                 War & UFOs

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 22:45:22 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 22:37:11 -0500
Subject: War & UFOs


Putting aside for the moment our disagreements about whether or
not the U.S. invasion of Iraq makes us the saviors of the world
or something considerably less, it is important to note that
UFOs have been sighted at or near the scene of combat in every
war of modern times. This is a moderately well established
historical fact.

Taken in conjunction with Don Johnson's prediction of a major
UFO sighting wave this month in specific parts of the world (we
now have about two weeks to go), it will be important to gather
worldwide information carefully and to filter out weak, trivial
"noise" reports. We cannot count on major news media, already
thoroughly distracted by the war and notably skeptical about
UFOs, to properly inform us (unless UFOs fly right over their
heads as they hunker in their "embedded" foxholes and perhaps
not even then), so our own private network can play an important
role.

_Please_, spare us funny-looking lights at night reports, vague
second-hand rumors, and the like. But be sure to tell us about
credible reports from credible people in your respective
countries that are describing things that clearly differentiate
themselves from IFOs by their performance characteristics and by
such features as EM effects, light beams, pulsating body lights,
brilliant illumination of the terrain, and the like. Assume that
each report has a mundane or prosaic explanation unless its
content strongly suggests otherwise.

Use some critical judgment, investigate carefully, sift and
sort, don't try to report everything that people claim to have
seen (which only confuses the issues), and we might actually get
somewhere if, indeed, Don Johnson proves to be right.


  - Dick









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                             UN Petition Update

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 17:46:24 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 22:38:40 -0500
Subject: UN Petition Update


Hi All,

  The UN Petition signature count stands at 2671 after one year
on-line. I think I'd feel prouder of the number if it was
exclusively an "American" effort, but it's not. For a campaign
that is supposed to be 'International,' twenty-six hundred
signatures, after a full year of soliciting support for the
effort, just isn't very impressive.

Therefore... I am going to extend the time frame for gathering
signatures another year. I am hoping that we can do 'better' if
we just give it some more time. It also happens to be a 'bad
time' to submit such a petition given the current world
political climate.

We need help getting the number of signatures up. Banners on
websites with active links to the petition, word of mouth, any
and all forms of 'spreading the word' are needed to make the
petition an attention grabber when it is finally submitted.

Again, please... help to spread the word in any way you can.
This isn't the kind of thing that anyone can pull off alone. But
together, we can make miracles happen.

Sign the International Petition for UFO information disclosure.
Tell everyone you know about it. If you maintain a UFO related
website, post a banner with an active link to the petition in a
prominent place on your webpages. Get involved. Participate.
Make your voices heard.

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Regards to all,

John Velez








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   Mar > Mar 18

                              Re: Rods - McCoy

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@charter.net>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 15:47:20 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 22:41:09 -0500
Subject: Re: Rods - McCoy


 >From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 05:25:33 +0100
 >Subject: Rods [was: Watching World War 2 Documentrie...]

 >>From: Colin Stevenson <colin@c2k2.fsworld.co.uk>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 16:24:01 -0000
 >>Subject: Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S

<snip>

 >Hello Colin,

 >Can you please describe and explain exactly how Rods "are under
 >investigation as are the shriveled bodies of them killed by
 >sulphur powder"? What are the shriveled bodies?


Hello All,

Ah, the shriveled bodies of Sulphur-killed grasshoppers?
beetles, Canaries?

let's see the corpse of a rod! Well thrown pepperoni sticks
don't count. (I haven't had lunch yet.)

GT McCoy










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   Mar > Mar 18

                          Re: Thank You! - Kimball

From: Paul Kimball <Kimballwood@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 20:28:51 EST
Fwd Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 22:44:19 -0500
Subject: Re: Thank You! - Kimball


 >From: Mike Woods <mike.woods@rogers.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 15:26:26 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Thank You!

 >>Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 07:49:02 -0700
 >>From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
 >>To: UFO Updates <UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Subject: Thank You!

<snip>

 >Dear Wendy & Joe,

 >Although it might cost me acquaintances here... let one
 >Canadian, at least, echo those sentiments. May the freedom we
 >take for granted here be spread around the world. Unfortunately,
 >the short sighted and timid we've elected leaders in this
 >country seem to have forgotten the one indisputable lesson of
 >history.

 >To live in freedom, you must be will to die for freedom.


 >Ex-Canadian soldier

 >Michael J. Woods

Wendy, Joe:

Here's another Canadian wishing our allies and good friends to
the South all the best in the days, weeks and months to come. I
believe history will prove the US, UK and others right in their
determination to disarm Saddam Hussein.

It is a shame - and a considerable foreign policy mistake - that
our government has chosen to sit this one out.


Best regards,

Paul Kimball






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                          Aztec UFO Symposium 2003

From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 19:21:38 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 22:46:53 -0500
Subject: Aztec UFO Symposium 2003


Greetings to the Listarians:

March 21-23 is the annual UFO Symposium at Aztec, NM. That's
this weekend folks!

This year's guest speakers include: Nick Redfern, Dr. Bruce
Maccabee, Stanton Friedman, Rob Swiatek, Karl Pflock, Richard
Dolan, Ted Lohman, Peter Gersten and yours truly (last minute
fill-in for Jim Moseley and because I'm a cheap UFO tramp that
can be had for measley saucer droppings...and it helps I only
live a couple of hours away). <G>).

It will be a good time to break away from the war correspondents
screeching on the Cable News channels and do something really
nice for yourself. Join all of us for a rip-roaring good
weekend!

Ya all come and have a good time!

Remember... it will probably be the only time you'll get the
chance to meet the First Lady of Ufology (OK, Wicked Witch of
Ufology for you riff-raff), because I don't do these shindigs
very often. I prefer the smooth sounds of EBK's 'Strange
Days... Indeed', where I can sit in my Doctor Denton's, swill
down the booze and talk to the radio listeners who haven't a
clue that I'm talking to them via speaker phone with my hair in
curlers and my feet in ratty bunny slippers. <G>

So, I mean it! Get your buns down to Aztec, NM this weekend and
join the party! I'm gonna have a huge surprise, so you don't
want to miss it!


Wendy Connors







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   Mar > Mar 19

                 Re: New Bentwaters Documentary - McGonagle

From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk>
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 02:55:20 -0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 02:57:37 -0500
Subject: Re: New Bentwaters Documentary - McGonagle


 >From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 21:42:32 -0000
 >Subject: New Bentwaters Documentary

Thanks, Nick. Appended to this post is a copy of a message on
the same topic which may be of interest to you and other List
members which I posted to the ufologyinuk mail List.

<snip>

 >The Ministry of Defence did not put up an official
 >spokesperson, but I made some general comments (in a private
 >capacity) about how and why the British Government investigates
 >UFO sightings. Former Chief of the Defence Staff Lord Hill-
 >Norton made it clear that he believes the events were of
 >defence significance.

I find it quite disturbing that a former Chief of the Defence
Staff is suggesting that information relating to the defence of
the realm (which was after all his ultimate responsibility when
he held that appointment) was denied to him by his juniors. If
true, it raises grave doubts about the security of the nation.
If false, it raises doubts about his suitability for that role
and the selection process which placed him in that position and
consequently raises further doubts (for different reasons) about
the security of the nation.

 >The lighthouse hypothesis was the main theory put forward by
 >sceptics, but Charles Halt was familiar with the lighthouse, and
 >stated that it was visible at the same time as the UFO.

You will see from my post below that I agree with you in this
regard.

 >The comments I have seen so far, both from believers and
 >sceptics, have been negative. Programme consultant Georgina
 >Bruni has been criticised by people who were expecting more new
 >data, but I do not believe this is fair comment. In researching
 >her book on the case, "You Can't Tell The People", Georgina
 >built up a rapport with many of the witnesses, several of whom
 >she now counts as friends. More importantly from a research
 >point of view, she secured testimony from several new witnesses,
 >together with new documents and photographs from the Ministry of
 >Defence and the USAF. It was Georgina's hope that the programme
 >would focus more on the witnesses (especially the new ones) than
 >the ufologists, and initial indications were encouraging.
 >Ultimately, however, budgetary and time constraints precluded
 >the participation of most of these people. But this was
 >Mentorn's decision, not Georgina's.

One wonders that if Mentorn had not paid for Georgina's services
(which it would seem they didn't really use), there may have
been more budget and time available to improve the content of
the programme?

<snip>

You will see from my comments in the appended post that I
remarked that you made no mention of the radiation readings at
Rendlesham. Was this due to editorial omission, or have you
changed your view on the importance of the radiation readings?

---

From: <joe@ufology.org.uk>
To: <ufologyinuk@smartgroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2003 1:36 AM
Subject: [ufologyinuk] RE: Rendlesham programme, tonight 22:30
          BBC3

I saw it, unfortunately I had a mishap with the recording
arrangements, but I will get another chance next weekend.

I thought it was OK, but I was not impressed with the impression
it tried to give that the case is finally and conclusively
resolved by the lighthouse theory.

It was good to see the faces of some UK ufologists on there,
including Dot Street, Brenda Butler, Jenny Randles, Harry
Harris, Dave Clarke, and other people connected with the case
including Charles Halt, Jim Penniston, Vince Thurkettle, Hill-
  Norton, and Nick Pope (although I was already familiar with
some of these from UFO seminars and other programmes).
Surprisingly, Nick didn't mention the radiation levels on which
he and Georgina base great importance?

I am suspicious that the lighthouse shots were taken from
locations other than Rendlesham, the day and night shots looked
far more prominent than I recall them being during my visits to
the site.

I thought Brenda came out less zany than she has done on other
programmes, and her dog was conspicuous by it's absence
(abducted?). I also noticed that Georgina Bruni was credited as
a consultant, in spite of the impression that Dave Clarke got
from the production company that they rejected her suggestions
in this regard due to exhorbitant fees?

Joe







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   Mar > Mar 19

                           Re: Thank You! - Gates

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 02:00:36 EST
Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 03:10:53 -0500
Subject: Re: Thank You! - Gates


 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 12:58:17 -0600
 >Subject: Re: Thank You!

 >>Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 07:49:02 -0700
 >>From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
 >>To: UFO Updates <UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Subject: Thank You!

 >Hi, Wendy,

 >>To Listarians Who Have Family or Relatives in the Military:

 >>I and my family send our sincerest thank you for your and their
 >>dedication to keeping this nation safe and giving the people of
 >>Iraq a new beginning out from under tyranny. Our prayers are
 >>with all the brave men and women who uphold the highest
 >>principles of honor, justice and freedom.

 >>God Bless. Be Safe and Remember, WE CARE!

 >>Lock and Load, "Let's Roll!"

 >>Wendy Connors (former military) & Joe Stone

 >
 >Hi, Wendy,

 >I don't want to encourage the List to get off track for more
 >than a moment here. But since Errol has posted your message,
 >perhaps he will indulge one from an American, one of a great
 >many (I have no trouble finding them even in the little
 >Midwestern town where I reside), who has a different point of
 >view - namely that our un-elected President's rush to war will
 >soon prove a catastrophe of historic proportions, as virtually
 >every informed observer here and around the world has warned.

Hi Jerry, listers,

I have a prediction that when the war starts UFO material will
become limited for awhile as people watch their TV's and media
coverage. Let me make a few comments.

The phrase "un-elected President," which gets bantered around
alot, is an interesting one especially considering historical
possibilitys. Such as when previous presidents have won the
popular vote, but failed to win the electoral vote, or
Presidents who have won the electoral vote and failed to when
the popular vote. The bottom line is the US system worked. You
had a legal dispute between two partys. The only place to work
those out properly is in court. Both partys went to court, one
lost, the other won, which is the case with every legal
dispute...one loser and one winner. Fortunatly we have a Supreme
Court that is the bottom line decision maker whether the dispute
is with the legislative branch, executive branch, or a matter of
law.

Let's contrast Jerry's point of view on the war verses what we
see in the popular media. Jerry stated that "prove a catastrophe
of historic proportions..." I believe this is a legit concern.
For example, should Saddam get a CBW tipped Scud off and into
Israel, Israel has already stated that 'a city will disappear"
which translated probably means a nuclear tipped Jericho. Note
Saddam will be using weapons he claims not to have and Israel
will be using a weapon they have never formerly admitted to
owning but they have. The possibility exists that US troops will
swarm through Iraq only to become bogged down in house-to-house
city fighting in and around Bagdad. The possibility also exists
that the war in Iraq could be over in 4 days. The possibility
also exists that while the US is engaged in Iraq, North Korea
could come over the border and China hits Taiwan. The
possibility exists that Iraq spys and terrorists will set up CBW
devices in the US, or small nukes. The possibility exists that..
We can only hope that these possibilitys have been thought of
and plans put into place to derail the potential. Again legit
concerns about something that none of us have control over, or
can do anything about, other then sit back and watch it unfold
on CNN.

Compare the legit concerns about the possibilitys for the war to
those like the Hollywood types and the various peace protestors
who are drivialing on and on about how they are against the war,
hate GW, blah blah blah. To which should be asked "Where were
you when.." Bill Clinton went to war in Kosovo/Yugoslavia
(remember Mike Farrell who doesn't like this war, thought it was
all right that the US acted unilaterally in that war) without
approval of the so called "International community" Bill Clinton
ordered the strike on a pill factory in Africa, however there
was no evidence that any Chemical/biological weapons were made
there. Bill also ordered hundreds of cruise missiles launched on
Iraq to punish them over the very compliance issue we are going
to war with today. One of the Hollywood stars said something to
the effect of war was "hip" when Clinton was pulling the
trigger. Which exposes the double speak these people indulge in.
When "our" President pulls the trigger then its OK and valid.
But when your guy does it, its wrong and immoral.

Saddam is not as high a threat (of course US forces could find
massive amounts of evidence to disprove this) to the national
security of the US as North Korea is. North Korea has nuclear
weapons, has a missile that can deliver them to the west coast
of the states and according to NK spokespeople if you add a
third stage to said missile all of the US is in range. I would
call that a clear, and immediate threat to the national security
of the US, not to mention all of the smaller nations around NK.
Not to mention Iran which now has a Uranium enrichment plant
going.

 >Of course we all support our troops and wish them well. That is
 >not the same thing as supporting the policy, or the civilian
 >leadership (practically none of which, by the way, has ever
 >served in uniform, thus the phrase "chickenhawk"), that put them
 >in harm's way for reasons even it cannot articulate with any
 >coherence or consistency.

Agreed. We are fortunate to live in a country that has civilian
leadership and civilian control of the military.


Cheers,

Robert







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   Mar > Mar 19

                           Re: Thank You! - Kardol

From: Sharon Kardol <sharon@netfactory.com.au>
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 15:44:50 +0800 (WST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 03:14:44 -0500
Subject: Re: Thank You! - Kardol


 >From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 13:42:29 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Thank You!

 >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 12:58:17 -0600
 >>Subject: Re: Thank You! - Clark

 >>>Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 07:49:02 -0700
 >>>From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
 >>>To: UFO Updates <UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Subject: Thank You!

<snip>

 >Hi Jerry,

 >I agree that Listers shouldn't make a thread out of this. But, I
 >appreciate your position and certainly agree we can disagree.
 >It's what makes this nation so darn great and hard for other
 >nations to understand.

 >You are probably right in your perceptions. However, I'm a
 >realist and believe that the fanatics of the world have pretty
 >much come to power because many nations do not care for their
 >people and tribal mentality doesn't work like it did a thousand
 >years ago, nor do nations built under the dogma of religious
 >fervor free people from tyranny. This isn't about oil or even
 >weapons of mass destruction. It's a clash between civilizations
 >and the necessity for change in the human condition. It's part
 >of life itself, inevitable and a condition of our species
 >methodolgy to survive through change.


I, as a family member of 1 of the 2000+ troops we have sent from
Australia in support of the impending war, would like to second
the "thank you" and send my own too.

The fact that the US, Britain, Australia, Spain, Portugal and
the other countries care about the Iraqi people enough to risk
the lives of their own sons and daughters is an astonshing
testimony to the effectiveness of living in a free, democratic
state. I thank God everyday some people in this world are still
willing to stand up to these monsters, for what is right.


God bless every one of them

Sharon K






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   Mar > Mar 19

                           Re: Thank You! - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 23:57:26 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 03:02:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Thank You! - Ledger


 >From: Mike Woods <mike.woods@rogers.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 15:26:26 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Thank You!

 >From: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >To: <- UFO UpDates Subscribers 06 - :>
 >Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 1:39 PM
 >Subject: UFO UpDate: Thank You!

 >>Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 07:49:02 -0700
 >>From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
 >>To: UFO Updates <UFOUpdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Subject: Thank You!

 >>To Listarians Who Have Family or Relatives in the Military:

 >>I and my family send our sincerest thank you for your and their
 >>dedication to keeping this nation safe and giving the people of
 >>Iraq a new beginning out from under tyranny. Our prayers are
 >>with all the brave men and women who uphold the highest
 >>principles of honor, justice and freedom.

 >>God Bless. Be Safe and Remember, WE CARE!

 >>Lock and Load, "Let's Roll!"

 >Although it might cost me acquaintances here... let one Canadian,
 >at least, echo those sentiments. May the freedom we take for
 >granted here be spread around the world. Unfortunately, the short
 >sighted and timid we've elected leaders in this country seem to
 >have forgotten the one indisputable lesson of history.

 >To live in freedom, you must be will to die for freedom.

 >Ex-Canadian soldier
 >Michael J. Woods


Hi Mike,

It won't cost you mine.

Freedom _is_ taken for granted here, in Canada. And there are
damn few who know the lessons learned from the circumstances
leading up to WW II. Hitler was a joke, then one to be pandered
to and ignored. Then ignored at all costs - and there was a
tremendous, dishonorable cost - until Hitler made the world pay
attention.

Dithering, pandering a timidity and turning away of the faces of
many nations cost the world 20 million people and the near
destruction of Europe.

How do we know that it will not happen here?

This situation can and will get worse in the Middle East if
Hussein is left to his own devices. The distances are shorter
and the delivery systems better. Death for hundreds of thousands
can come in a suitcase or a bottle the size of a soda pop. When
the world can take him no longer, when it's either damn near too
late - or too late, that's when many will die trying to do what
should have been done earlier. It's that simple.

We are not talking about freedom now but freedom ten years from
now. We should be there. It's a disgrace in my estimation that
we are not.


Don Ledger






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   Mar > Mar 19

              'Prophet' Opens Theme Park For Our Alien Heritage

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 07:46:15 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 07:46:15 -0500
Subject: 'Prophet' Opens Theme Park For Our Alien Heritage

http://www.observer.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,915242,00.html


'Prophet' opens theme park for our alien heritage

Robin McKie, science editor
Sunday March 16, 2003
The Observer

He has written books that have sold more than 56 million copies,
served three years in jail for tax evasion, and spent the past
30 years trying to convince the world that most of our famous
ancient structures were built by creatures from another world.

But now Erich von Daniken, author of Chariot of the Gods and
more than two dozen 'true-life' accounts of alien visitation, is
set to join the ranks of the world's media elite: he is about to
open his own theme park.

In a few weeks, on a massive site outside Interlaken in
Switzerland, Von Daniken's Mystery Park - containing recreations
of major 'extra-terrestrial works' that include Stonehenge, the
Pyramids of Egypt, the Mayan temples, and others - will open to
visitors at a cost of =A322 a head.

Backed by major companies such as Swatch and Coca-Cola, the park
and its domes, temples and pyramids - set bizarrely in the midst
of plush Alpine scenery - is intended to attract more than half
a million tourists a year. 'We will show the greatest mysteries
in the world, but we will give no answers,' says Von Daniken.

Given that most scientists and archaeologists believe they have
provided perfectly adequate answers about the human origins of
these great works, such emphasis on mystifying them is likely to
go down badly in academic circles, particularly those starved of
the kind of cash that has been lavished on the park by backers
including Sony, TV companies and local brewers. Daniken will not
say how much the Mystery Park will cost to complete.

One typical prehistoric wonder to get the Von Daniken treatment
is the Nasca Lines, made up of giant figures and symbols etched
between 200BC and AD600 in the Nasca desert in Peru. They look
like odd furrows scraped in the soil when viewed from the
ground. Seen from the air, they turn into as a wonderful
assembly of monkeys, spiders, whales and rectangles.
Archaeologists interpret these as symbolic offerings to local
gods.

But Von Daniken sees them differently. He claims the Nasca Lines
are the remains of an ancient spaceport, turned into a temple
after the aliens departed. And soon visitors to his park will be
able to share the supposedly extra-terrestrial experiences of
the Nasca people. Other attractions will include a giant Imax
screen, 3-D films, and 360-degree 'all-round' cinemas - all
geared to show our history is not human but created for us by
beneficent aliens, who bred with our apemen ancestors to produce
modern men and women.

Britain's own Stonehenge is thus reproduced as the suggested
handiwork of generous extraterrestrials.

Scientists have heaped contempt on the Swiss author and
repudiated virtually every claim he has made. Historian Brian
Fagan described Von Daniken's book Arrival of the Gods as 'a
grotesque parody' of scientific inquiry devoid of intellectual
credibility or literary merit. 'This is not science; Erich von
Daniken has raised his astronaut theories to the status of a
cult, with himself as the Great Prophet.'

It remains to be seen how many will flock to the prophet's theme
park.


[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]






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   Mar > Mar 19

                   Aztec UFO Crash Is Something To Look At

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 07:49:29 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 07:49:29 -0500
Subject: Aztec UFO Crash Is Something To Look At

http://www.daily-times.com/Stories/0,1413,129%257E6572%257E1248110,00.html


Researchers Aztec UFO crash is something to look at
By Debra Mayeux/Staff writer
Sunday, March 16, 2003 - 2:04:50 AM MST


AZTEC Eyewitnesses have never been located. The incident is
shrouded in mystery.

Whether a UFO crashed in 1948 near Aztec has received a good
deal of interest from both believers and skeptics. Those wanting
to discuss the possibility of the event will converge on the
small northern New Mexico town for a three-day symposium March
21-23 at the Aztec Civic Center, 101 S. Park Ave.

The symposium, which began six years ago, has grown
significantly over the years, so has the list of speakers.

This year there will be a number of noted ufologists,
journalists and historians who have studied the UFO phenomenon
with the goal of proving or disproving the idea of
extraterrestrials visiting our planet.

Rob Swiatek, of the Fund for UFO Research, cannot prove there
are extraterrestrial spacecraft, yet he does believe there is
something there for scientists to study.

"Something strange has been going on for the last 50 years,"
Swiatek said in a telephone interview Friday. "It's an enduring
mystery. We haven't been able to make the case for the
scientific community, but there is a core of evidence there that
can not be explained away as mundane."

Journalist Nick Redfern agreed.

He has been studying strange sightings and occurrences in both
the United Kingdom and the United States since the late-1990s.

"My goal has been to chase down the paper trail," Redfern said.

He has worked to declassify FBI files and government papers in
an effort to discover the facts behind the UFO folklore.

"There was an attempt to discredit people in the media looking
into this," he said, adding he takes an unbiased approach to the
topic. "I'm putting the information out there that I have
obtained with the hopes others will come forward to speak about
it peeling away the layers of the onion to get the story."

In his first three books, published by Simon and Schuster,
Redfern has been attempting to find out the history behind the
crashes and promote what has been hidden from the public.

"I'm interested in mysteries and conspiracies in general,"
Redfern said.

He has spent his time documenting government documents on all
types of cases in order to determine their credibility. Swiatek
does the same thing.

"I have a whole bunch of the (Project) Blue Book microfilm," he
said adding he has spent countless hours studying this topic.

He became interested in UFOs in the late-1960s, when reports on
the subject could be found on the front page of major newspapers
across the country.

"I was completely intrigued by what I read," Swiatek said. "I
haven't lost my fascination after all of these years."

The UFO researcher believes wholeheartedly in the Farmington
Armada flyover of 1950.

"That seemingly did occur and is a fascinating case," he said.
"The few people who looked at it seemed to have pretty good
documentation that it did happen."

Swiatek is not as convinced about Aztec.

"There may not have been a crash in Aztec, but certainly
Farmington has a role to play in the greater UFO phenomenon,"
Swiatek said.

The concern over the Aztec crash is not so much a denial of the
event on the researcher's part. He just hasn't seen many
documented reports or interviews with eyewitnesses regarding the
alleged crash.

As far as Aztec is concerned, Redfern has not made up his mind.

"The FBI has quite an extensive file on the case," he said.

The file consists of documents on the men, who first broke the
story of a crashed disc in Hart Canyon Silas Newton and Leo
GeBauer. The investigation into these two was not because of
their UFO crash story, but because they were known con men.

"The file on GeBauer is 400 pages long," Redfern said. "Only 200
pages have been declassified."

The author believes the problem with Aztec is not "that there
aren't files on it. It is a lot of the it can be tracked back to
Newton and GeBauer," Redfern said.

"Inadvertently, because of who they were destroyed the
credibility of the case," he said.

Despite the fact that the story was made public by these two con
men, the Aztec story is continuing to grow and receive interest.

Even Redfern believes there could be something to it. Exactly
what happened there remains the mystery.

"Some accounts could have been spread to discredit actual
cases," Redfern said. "Someone in the Pentagon may have spread
rumors."

Why, one might ask. Redfern has an interesting answer. It may
have been "psychological warfare," which would have made the
Russians believe the U.S. had its hands on advanced
extraterrestrial technology.

Historian Rich Dolan believes that is exactly what could have
happened. In fact, his theory is the UFOs may have been unmanned
spacecraft captained by artificial intelligence.

"Where they are from, and who they are I don't have the
answers," Dolan said. "I have come to the conclusion this isn't
our technology."

Dolan became interested in UFOs 10 years ago.

"I didn't have anything to do that day," he said in a Friday
telephone interview.

Being a historian, he questioned why there were no references to
UFOs in the history books.

"I wondered why it was absent from Truman's memoirs," he said.
"I began a personal project and hunted down information on it
(using the Freedom of Information Act.)

Dolan became an author, writing a 500-page book, "UFOs and the
National Security State." He is currently working on another
book.

He will speak in Aztec on his theory concerning artificial
intelligence and UFOs from 9-10:30 a.m. March 23.

Redfern will speak on a comparison of UFO incidents in England
with the Aztec crash at from 8-9:30 a.m. March 22.

Swiatek will speak on the mystery of the UFO phenomenon from 3-
4:30 p.m. March 22.

Tickets to the symposium are $50 for both days or $35 for
Saturday and $20 for Sunday.

Information: The symposium hotline, (505) 334-9890 or 1-877-823-
5810.

Debra Mayeux: debram@daily-times.com


[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]







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   Mar > Mar 19

               Professor Questions Study, Then Others Question

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 07:52:45 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 07:52:45 -0500
Subject: Professor Questions Study, Then Others Question

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/education/134654818_loftus170.html


Monday, March 17, 2003 - 12:00 a.m. Pacific

Professor Questions Study, Then Others Question Her

By Susan Kelleher
Seattle Times staff reporter

Elizabeth Loftus was suspicious.

Having spent years at the University of Washington twisting
people's memories and making them "remember" things that had
never happened to them, Loftus was sure that the doctor
lecturing nationwide about a traumatic memory recovered by one
of his clients was doing some truth twisting of his own.

The University of Cincinnati child psychiatrist, had videotaped
his interviews with a girl, first when she was 6 and then when
she was 17. Together, the tapes presented a compelling case for
the controversial theory that the mind can bury painful
memories, then recover them.

But Loftus didn't buy it. She set out to investigate the
research. By the time she finished, she had cast a shadow not
only on the psychiatrist, but on the integrity of case studies
that have shaped the field of psychology for more than a
century.

Darkened too, however, was Loftus' relationship with her own
university. Colleagues there questioned the methods she had used
in her challenge, and recommended she take an ethics class.

Ultimately, Loftus _ the queen of the UW Psychology Department,
who last year ranked 58th in a list of the 100 most eminent
psychologists of the 20th century _ left Seattle in anger to
take a post at the University of California, Irvine.

Until now, the controversy surrounding Loftus' departure has
been confined mainly to university offices and boardrooms. It is
a story not just of one professor's battle against another, but
of the treacherous academic territory Loftus tread in
challenging someone else's work.

'Diva of Disclosure'

Exploring dangerous ground is nothing new for Elizabeth Loftus.

For more than a decade, she has challenged prevailing views of
memory, demonstrating that eyewitness testimony can be
unreliable. In experiments, she showed that through suggestion
and reinforcement, people can be made to believe they had
experienced something that had never actually happened.

Her work helped change methods used by police, social workers
and therapists, especially around allegations of abuse.

In 2001, the American Psychological Society gave her its most
prestigious award, calling her research "ingenious," and noting
that "the quality of basic-memory research and the fairness of
the criminal-justice system have advanced substantially" because
of her science. A 1996 article in Psychology Today magazine
dubbed her "The Diva of Disclosure."

But Loftus' work also created enemies, people who put her in the
same league as the accused killers, rapists and child molesters
on whose behalf she has testified in court. The Psychology Today
article quotes a letter from an incest survivor: "Please
consider your work to be on the same level as those who deny the
existence of the extermination camps during WWII."

Few hate Loftus more than those involved in the spate of
lawsuits and criminal trials that began in the 1980s, when it
seemed as if childhood sexual abuse and satanic-ritual abuse
were becoming nationwide epidemics.

Parents and child-care providers were hauled into court for
sexual abuse, even murder, on the basis of memories recalled
decades after the alleged events. The cases grabbed headlines
until a 1992 presentation by Loftus cast doubt on some claims.

"While certainly there have been enormous tragedies due to real
crimes against women and children," Loftus wrote, "there have
also been equally enormous tragedies of false accusations.
Families have been destroyed, miscarriages of justice have
occurred, and more than a few innocent people have been sent to
prison."

The topic of so-called "repressed memory" remains charged with
emotion and controversy, mostly because it is impossible to
absolutely prove or disprove scientifically.

Researchers can't ethically torture a group of people and then
check back with them 20 years later to see if any of them forget
and then remember the abuse. The most they can do is evaluate
instances in which such remembering has reportedly occurred.
Those instances are written up as case studies and presented in
professional journals.

Loftus was reading such a journal, Child Maltreatment, in May
1997 when she came across the case of reported abuse that roused
her suspicions. In psychology circles, the case is widely known
as "Corwin's Jane Doe."

Lack of memory

In the article, Dr. David Corwin, a well-regarded child
psychiatrist who now teaches at the University of Utah and heads
the Child Protection Team at Primary Children's Medical Center
in Salt Lake City, described this situation:

A young girl was caught in a child-custody dispute between
divorcing parents. Corwin was called in to assess abuse
allegations made by 6-year-old "Jane." In his third videotaped
interview with Jane, she folded her tiny fingers into a three-
fingered Brownie salute and swore she was being truthful when
she accused her mother of abusing her in the bathtub and of
burning her feet on the stove.

After reviewing reports from police, doctors and social workers
who already had examined and talked to Jane, Corwin concluded it
was likely that Jane's mother had sexually abused the girl. A
judge awarded custody to her father and stepmother, terminating
the mother's visitation rights.

Jane's father divorced about three years later, and within seven
years became incapacitated by a health problem. Jane was living
in foster care when he died.

Before the father's death, Corwin called him to see if it was
still OK to show the videotape of his interview with Jane for
educational purposes. When the father became ill, Corwin called
Jane herself to get permission. She asked him if she could see
the taped interview from when was 6.

Jane was 17 when she saw the tape. She told Corwin she
remembered accusing her mother of abuse but didn't remember if
the abuse actually occurred. As she pondered her lack of memory,
she suddenly recalled her mother abusing her once in the
bathtub. Corwin was taping Jane at the time, and he asked for
and received her permission to show that tape, too, for
educational purposes.

When Corwin showed the videotapes at professional conferences,
clinicians who routinely dwell in the wreckage of other people's
traumas dabbed at their eyes.

But Loftus _ clearly predisposed to doubt recovered memories _
pounced on this one. She was struck by what she saw as a dearth
of evidence cited by Corwin to support his finding that Jane had
been abused as a child.

She spoke with a colleague, Melvin Guyer at the University of
Michigan, and together they decided to do their own
investigation.

"I think people have to be very suspicious of case histories,
and be aware that this is half of the story and one person's
opinion," Loftus said. "The problem is, as with many aspects of
life, the vivid case histories that have a story and a face are
always more persuasive than cold, hard statistics."

Omissions

 From the start, the methods used by Loftus and Guyer in re-
examining the case were unorthodox.

Instead of going to Corwin for more information or permission to
talk with Jane, Loftus and Guyer picked up on clues _ her real
first name, locations, the year of her parents' divorce and her
father's death _ and figured out Jane's full name and
whereabouts.

With the help of a private investigator, they dug up divorce
records and interviewed three women who knew Jane: her birth
mother, foster mother and stepmother.

The results of their investigation appeared in the Skeptical
Inquirer, a mass-circulation magazine devoted to scrutinizing
what it calls "pseudoscience." Their article alleged that Corwin
had omitted important facts about Jane's family and her case
history.

Among the omissions:

=F2 Failing to note that a county child-protective agency had
investigated the allegations when they were first made and had
recommended that no action be taken.

=F2 Not mentioning that a clinical psychologist had reviewed the
case and had concluded that, while abuse may have occurred, the
nature and source of any abuse was unknown and that Jane may
have just been repeating suggestions from her father.

=F2 Ignoring the contentiousness of the custody battle, which
lasted five years. In a taped interview with Loftus, Jane's
stepmother said she had worked hard to "get" Jane for her then-
husband, and noted that they finally succeeded with the "sexual
angle."

The information revealed by Loftus and Guyer didn't disprove the
claim of abuse. But it raised doubts about both the original
claim and the memory Jane said she later recalled.

The significance of that doubt extended beyond Jane's case:
Corwin's finding already was being cited in other court cases as
evidence in support of recovered memory.

In a recent interview, Corwin conceded he had selectively edited
facts in presenting Jane Doe's case and said it was appropriate
to do so. A case study need not be an exhaustive recitation of
every fact but rather should include information that supports
the author's conclusions, he said.

Besides, he said, "We don't know with absolute certainty what
happened (to Jane), and we don't assert that we did."

Corwin said professional ethics prevented him from providing
further information about Jane's case, even if it meant not
being able to defend himself against Loftus and Guyer's
criticisms.

Gray zone

Loftus expected laurels for shining light on this case. Instead,
she found the light shined into her own eyes, as Jane herself
complained to the administration of the UW that Loftus had
violated her privacy.

Once university officials began their 21-month investigation of
Loftus' "case study of a case study," they discovered how
difficult it is to regulate research that falls outside
traditional boundaries, as Loftus' did.

"We're in the grayest of the gray zones I've ever been in my
entire life," said David Hodge, dean of UW's College of Arts and
Sciences.

University rules for research involving human subjects were
written mainly for medical experimentation. But, as Hodge and
others found, they are much more tricky to apply outside that
area, especially if someone is challenging a case study.

Faculty members conducting research are required to submit
proposals to an institutional review board, or IRB. The IRB sets
rules to protect research subjects from harm and to ensure
they're fully informed before they agree to participate.

Loftus had submitted a proposal to the UW's IRB early on, but
then had ignored the board's follow-up questions after her
partner, Guyer, received the go-ahead from the University of
Michigan's IRB.

Had Loftus gone through the UW board, it's unlikely she would
have been allowed to challenge Corwin's work the way she did,
according to John Slattery, who was director of the UW's Office
of Scholarly Integrity at the time.

Slattery said Loftus would have had to seek the university's
permission before contacting people for interviews. She would
likely have been required to give the IRB a list of questions
she planned to ask and a form explaining the potential risks of
being interviewed.

She probably would have been required to contact Corwin for
permission to review records and to interview Jane.

Such rules make challenging a psychological case study much
harder than presenting one.

Psychological case studies are, by design, shrouded in secrecy.
Although studies are reviewed by experts before publication,
those experts do not know subjects' names and rarely see
documentation.

Still, Loftus feels justified in deliberately penetrating
Corwin's efforts to hide Jane's identity. Secrecy rules adopted
to protect the privacy of patients or research subjects should
not be used to obscure the truth, she said.

Loftus was already well into her investigation when she took a
colleague's advice and spoke with Corwin about contacting Jane.
He told her he would be happy to connect the two, but then told
her Jane wanted to communicate through him. Loftus eventually
exchanged an e-mail with Jane to put her in touch with her
mother, but she said they never discussed the abuse claims or
Corwin's article.

Calling Loftus' methods unethical, Corwin said, "I have no
reason to hide anything. She could have asked me, and I would
have gone through the steps that would have left Jane Doe
feeling less violated."

Jane told UW officials that she objected to Loftus tracking down
her mother and stepmother for interviews.

Loftus admits to befriending Jane's biological mother, and
confesses that she was motivated in large part by a desire to
unite mother and daughter. In an e-mail to Loftus, Jane's mother
wrote: "You have helped me heal when I thought it was not
possible. I value your caring friendship. I am truly thankful
that you are in my life."

Loftus' ongoing friendship with Jane's mother complicated the UW
investigation, which was conducted by an ad-hoc committee
consisting of three faculty members.

The committee ultimately cleared Loftus of wrongdoing but
required her to get permission from the IRB before contacting
Jane's mother again. The panel also wanted Loftus to take an
ethics class.

Angry, hurt and humiliated by the investigation, Loftus accepted
an offer from the University of California, Irvine, which
offered her more research money and a "distinguished professor"
title. She began teaching there in September.

"I cried for a week before I made the decision and a week
after," Loftus said. "I felt so betrayed by my university."

The University of Michigan gave no such scrutiny to Guyer,
Loftus' partner in the research.

Meanwhile, Loftus has received letters of support from prominent
psychologists and researchers from around the country, including
Harvard University and the Massachusetts Institute of
Technology, applauding her efforts to make case studies more
transparent and expressing anger at how the UW treated her.

Hodge, the UW dean, said the university is looking at a
different system for evaluating the kinds of challenges that
Loftus' investigation represented.

"We always want to allow challenges to other people's research.
It's really about at what point does a relationship become a
scientific relationship? That's where it becomes difficult," he
said. "It's not clear where the line is between professional
scientific research and non-scientific research."

Copyright =A9 2003 The Seattle Times Company


[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]







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   Mar > Mar 19

                      Exploring Space Protecting Water

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 07:58:02 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 07:58:02 -0500
Subject: Exploring Space Protecting Water

http://www.theindependent.com/stories/031803/new_carpenter18.shtml

Exploring space, protecting water
Mercury astronaut describes drive to protect all water forms

Last modified at 12:51 a.m. on Tuesday, March 18, 2003


By Harold Reutter
hreutter@theindependent.com

Do not weep for the Columbia astronauts, but thank them.

That was the message Mercury 7 astronaut Scott Carpenter, the
second American to orbit the earth, gave to the people who
attended Monday night's Groundwater Festival banquet in Grand
Island.

Carpenter told the crowd at the Interstate 80 Holiday Inn that
he has been asked to talk about the Columbia space shuttle
disaster during his nationwide book tour for "Spacious Skies:
The Uncommon Journey of a Mercury Astronaut."

Carpenter said that he responds as one who has flown in space
himself.

"Space flight is not without risk," Carpenter said. "Anyone who
contemplates flying into space becomes aware of their own
frailty, the risk of flight and the presence of human
fallibility."

Carpenter said that he and all astronauts, weighed the benefits
of space flight against the risk. They decided that the benefits
outweighed the risk.

"Don't weep for those who died," he said. "Thank them, but don't
stop the progress. Many, many youngsters coming up would jump at
the chance to take that risk."

"We will figure out what happened, fix it and get back into
space exploration," he said. "We will build a better machine
than the space shuttle."

Carpenter said that one day man will fly to Mars. He said the
trip to Mars is inevitable.

Turning to a lighter subject, Carpenter noted that one of the
most frequent questions he gets as a former astronaut is about
UFOs.

He said people believe anybody who has flown in space "knows
more than anybody else (about UFOs). They don't."

"UFOs exist," said Carpenter, apparently referring to objects
that have appeared in the sky and which cannot be identified.

"Flying saucers do not," Carpenter quickly added. He said there
is simply no hard evidence that flying saucers exist and he
noted, "I like hard evidence."

Carpenter cautioned that his skepticism about flying saucers
"does not mean there is no intelligent life elsewhere."

If people believe in the power of numbers and odds, then look at
the cosmos, they will reach the conclusion "we cannot be alone,"
Carpenter said.

Carpenter then quoted Albert Einstein to bolster his belief that
life must exist elsewhere: "If you believe we are all alone in
this vast cosmos, it's a terrible waste of space."

Carpenter also talked about his career as an aquanaut who once
worked on SEALAB II program. He described that work at the very
beginning of his presentation and then returned at the very end.

"We tend to take for granted what we already have," said
Carpenter, noting fresh water is a precious resource.

He said both gold and silver are highly valued, but if the earth
runs out of those commodities, that is O.K. If the earth runs
out of water, that is a disaster.

"Kids need to learn that," Carpenter said.

He said the ocean's value should be appreciated just as fresh
water and groundwater is appreciated. Despite that fact, the
ocean is being degraded. However, Carpenter warned that "life on
this planet cannot continue without a healthy ocean."

Through his work with SEALAB and with famed ocean explorer
Jacques Cousteau, he discovered that much of the same technology
used to send man into space is also used to send man far below
the ocean's surface.

He said those experiences helped him to see opportunities for
technology transfers.

Carpenter, though, couldn't resist concluding his talk by
telling a story in which a technology transfer did not work.

He said scientists with both NASA and the SEALAB programs were
interested in developing an "electronic shark chaser." NASA
wanted to keep sharks away from the space capsules that returned
to earth by splashing down into the ocean during the early days
of space travel. SEALAB also had an obvious interest in
technology that kept sharks at a distance.

An instrument 15 inches long and eight inches in diameter was
developed that sent out electronic pulses when a switch was
flipped on. The pulses were supposed to scare sharks away, so
device was sent out for independent testing.

Carpenter laughed at the words used to describe the device's
effectiveness in test results: "It is mildly repellent to sharks
in both the 'on' and 'off' position."

[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]





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   Mar > Mar 19

                         ET Hunters Take Closer Look

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 08:00:55 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 08:00:55 -0500
Subject: ET Hunters Take Closer Look


Source: BBC OnLine

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2857865.stm

ET hunters take closer look
By Dr David Whitehouse
BBC News Online science editor

Mankind could be on the verge of finding intelligent life in
space

  The scientists behind the world's biggest distributed computing
project are about to take a closer look at the most promising
radio signals so far collected in the search for alien beings.

For four years, millions of people around the world have been
running a special screensaver program on their desktops, sifting
data for unique patterns that might represent an intelligent
transmission.

Now, the most interesting radio sources picked out by the
Seti@home project are to be re-observed using the giant Arecibo
telescope in Puerto Rico.

Researchers have about 150 radio sources they want to examine in
the next three days.

Curious remain

Since it started in 1999, Seti@home (Seti stands for the Search
for Extraterrestrial Intelligence) has become a massive hit with
computer users.

Several million volunteers from more than 200 countries have
downloaded the screensaver program that uses idle time on a PC
to analyse data obtained by radio telescopes that scan the skies
for unusual signals, possibly from intelligent lifeforms.

  In so doing, Seti@home has become the largest computation ever
done on this planet, having accumulated more than a million
years of computing time.

Now, in a phase known as the "Stellar Countdown", the project
will use the Arecibo radio telescope to re-observe the most
interesting radio sources thrown up by the screensaver search.

David Anderson, Seti@Home's Project Director, said: "After the
re-observations of our Stellar Countdown help us eliminate
candidates that are random noise or terrestrial radio
interference, we will be very curious to see what candidates
remain."

Serendipity data

The Seti@home software downloads data from the Search for
Extraterrestrial Radio Emissions at the Nearby Developed
Intelligent Populations (Serendip) project at the University of
California at Berkeley, US.

  The odds that it has succeeded in identifying a real alien
transmission are very long.

Since 1960, there have been over 50 searches for intelligent
signals from space, initially at radio wavelengths but latterly
looking for laser pulses. Neither has produced definite
detections.

Even optimistic scientists put the chance that Seti@home will
find an extraterrestrial signal at less than 1%.

On-the-spot analysis of data during the Arecibo observing run
will allow the astronomers to re-target any especially promising
signals.

A more detailed assessment of the Stellar Countdown results will
be conducted offline after the Seti@home team returns to the
University of California at Berkeley.

Best bets

Dan Werthimer, chief scientist of Seti@home, will lead the team
conducting re-observations at Arecibo.

The researchers will observe the sky eight hours each day,
staggering the time of day for each session to cover as much sky
as possible.

The list of the most promising signal candidates far exceeded
150, but the project was allotted only 24 hours from March 18 to
20 to use Arecibo, making it impossible to examine all of the
leads at this time.

The candidate radio sources were chosen on the basis of several
criteria:

* number of times the radio source was detected * how closely
different observations resemble each other * strength of radio
source * proximity to known stars * type of star * the presence
of known planets

Dan Werthimer said: "I believe that we will likely discover
extraterrestrial civilizations in the next 100 years. Even if we
don't find a signal from ET this time, I'm optimistic in the
long run, since our search capabilities are doubling every
year."

[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]








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   Mar > Mar 19

                         Britain's Closest Encounter

From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 12:19:18 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 14:59:32 -0500
Subject: Britain's Closest Encounter


Source: BBC OnLine

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/tv/closeencounters.shtml

Thu 20 Mar at 02:05 on BBC Three
Sat 22 Mar at 20:00 on BBC Three
Sun 23 Mar at 03:15 on BBC Three


On the nights of 27 and 28 December 1980, Britain's most famous
UFO incident took place. A number of US Airforce personnel based
at RAF Woodbridge in Suffolk claimed to have seen 'strange
lights' in the adjacent Rendlesham forest, and later, to have
come across an unidentifiable craft in the woods.

Britain's Closest Encounter examines the incident and talks to
the main players involved, including key air force personnel
Charles Halt and James Penniston, local witnesses and UFO
believers and sceptics.

It includes newly analysed audio tapes recorded by the USAF
during the sightings and recreates what happened that night in
an attempt to solve the mystery of what has become known as the
UK's 'Roswell'.

The documentary also examines the role of the Ministry of
Defence in investigating alleged UFO sightings, revealing its
response to 'the Rendlesham Incident' and talking to Nick Pope,
who once manned what is colloquially known as 'the UFO desk' at
the MoD in the early 1990s.









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   Mar > Mar 19

                          FILER'S FILES #12 -- 2003

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 10:28:08 EST
Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 15:02:25 -0500
Subject: FILER'S FILES #12 -- 2003


FILER'S FILES #12 -- 2003 Skywatch Investigations.
George A. Filer, Director Mutual UFO Network Eastern
March 19, 2003,  Majorstar@aol.com Webmaster: Chuck
Warren -- My website is at: www.Georgefiler.com
Sponsored by:  www.filer.unfranchise.com

UFO SIGHTINGS CONTINUE BEFORE THE STORM

The purpose of these files is to report the UFO eyewitness and
photo/video evidence that occurs on a daily basis around the
world and in space. US likely to launch invasion of Iraq. This
report includes SETI says 150 possible ET signals from
intelligent civilizations, FBI flying fleet of aircraft against
terrorism, Maine - a large turquoise colored sphere, Connecticut
- flying triangle, Florida - strange large flying triangle, West
Virginia -orange compact disc shaped UFO, Ohio - bright lights
in triangular pattern 'hang' in sky, Missouri - object hovering
over a field, Louisiana - transparent flying triangles, Arizona
- black object sitting on the road, California - greenish
glowing disk, Washington - possible abductions, Canada lights,
Costa Rica lights on a saucer, and Argentina, Brazil, Chili wave
of sightings, There is strong Sunspot activity and solar flares
that is likely to cause heavy winds and satellite interruptions
on Earth.

US WILL LIKELY LAUNCH INVASION OF IRAQ THIS WEEK

The second crusades will likely launch later this week unless
Saddam Hussein agrees to step down.  President Bush is privy to
very damaging information that  Iraq is actively attempting to
build nuclear weapons, and already has biological and chemical
weapons and intends to use them. Further, many successful
terrorist actions, often not admitted to by the US have been
successfully conducted by terrorists backed by Saddam Hussein.
In her excellent book, "The War Against America," Laurie Mylroie
focuses primarily on the first World Trade Center bombing and
makes the case that the one nation with the means and the
motivation to support the bombing was Iraq. The most likely
interpretation," she notes, "is that the Islamic Change Movement
was a name given by Iraqi intelligence to threaten or claim
credit for bombings." Several Iraqi explosive experts were also
known to be present at the Oklahoma City bombing. Law
enforcement authorities also announced that ringleader Mohammed
Atta of the attacks and pilot aboard the American Airlines
flight that first struck the World Trade Center, met secretly
twice last year with Iraqi intelligence agent Ahmed Samir Ahani.
It is likely Iraq is involved with the suicide strikes and could
have provided Anthrax to the terrorists. Atta lived near the
Florida site where deadly airborne exposures of the anthrax
bacteria killed one man and infected another.

Investigators Jack Cashill and James Sanders new book "First
Strike," due out from Thomas Nelson Publishers claims the
downing of TWA Flight 800, in 1996 was caused by a terrorist
group called the "Islamic Change Movement." This is the same
"group" that had taken also responsibility for the Riyadh
bombing in 1995 that killed five Americans and two Indian
nationals, and the Khobar Towers bombing in Saudi Arabia on June
25, 1996, that killed 19 American servicemen. Early on July 17,
1996, the day TWA Flight 800 was destroyed, this same group
issued a communiqu=E9 that, according to Yossef Bodansky, "laid
the foundation for the downing of TWA 800." As director of the
Congressional Task Force on Terrorism and Unconventional
Warfare, Bodansky reported that on July 18, the Islamic Change
Movement released a communiqu=E9 through well-established Islamist
terrorist channels in Beirut. It read in part, "We carried out
our promise with the plane attack of yesterday." Dozens of
witnesses saw a missile launch downing TWA 800. Several other
unexplained accidents have reports of unidentified flying
objects just prior to their crash.

President George Bush is well aware of these attacks, and knows
that Saddam Hussein is the key leader sponsoring terrorism and
it is only a matter of time before the terrorists are provided
with weapons of mass destruction to carry out more devastating
attacks. The removal of Saddam Hussein from power will not stop
all terrorists attacks, but will give a clear warning to anyone
who wishes to sponsor terrorism. For the sake of the hundreds of
thousands of our soldiers and Iraqi civilians I pray that
President George Bush is making the right decision and the war
will be over quickly. Its time to roll and for Saddam to leave
Iraq.

POSSIBLE ET SIGNALS FROM 150 INTELLIGENT CIVILIZATIONS

SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - Using 4 million computers worldwide,
SETI scientists based at the University of California, Berkeley
said, "they have identified about 150 sources of possible
signals from intelligent civilizations." The California
researchers plan to head to Puerto Rico this month to use one of
the world's most powerful telescopes to more closely investigate
the signals that might be from extra terrestrials, a university
spokeswoman said. "They are homing in on interesting signals,"
said Sarah Yang, a spokeswoman where the SETI@home research
project is based. "They have not said they found anything." The
project links volunteer computer users into the researchers'
efforts to search for strong or unusual signals from space that
one day may lead to the proof that there really may be something
else out there. The leading candidate signals compiled over more
than three years of work are the ones that were particularly
strong or have been observed in the same spot more than once,
researchers said. While scientists involved in the project are
cautious about their chances of actually discovering a signal
from an intelligent being in outer space this time, they believe
they are on the right track for the future. "I believe that we
will likely discover extraterrestrial civilizations in the next
hundred years," Dan Werthimer, chief scientist of SETI@home said
in a statement. "Even if we don't find a signal from ET this
time, I'm optimistic, since our search capabilities are doubling
every year."

FBI FLEET OF PLANES TRACK SUSPECTED TERRORISTS

THE FBI has a fleet of more than eighty aircraft and helicopters
flying above US cities to track suspected terrorists. Most are
equipped with night surveillance and eves-dropping equipment.
Some hovering over residential areas could be mistaken for UFOs
and will likely start spotting some UFOs themselves. President
Bush's push for homeland security also includes use of ultrahigh
altitude platforms to include solar-powered airships. From sky-
high positions, these giant airships would support radar sweeps
of US coastline, as well as serve communications and sensor-
snooping services. Several firms are supplying the mega-
airships, including Lockheed Martin who operates a lighter-than-
air surveillance platform division in Akron, Ohio. Un-piloted
airships would operate above the jet stream and above severe
weather in a geostationary position to serve as a
telecommunications relay, a weather observer, or a peacekeeper
from its over-the-horizon perch. Boeing is also producing UAV
aircraft that will be flying the skies of Oklahoma.

CALL TO HONOR SPACE ALIENS

Dan Foley, a Republican from Roswell, New Mexico, the area where
some say aliens landed, proposed an "Extraterrestrial Culture
Day" every second Thursday in February. Mr. Foley asked for the
bill "in recognition of the many visitations, sightings,
unexplained mysteries and technological advances, of alien
beings" in New Mexico. The legislation aims to "enhance
relationships among all the citizens of the cosmos, known and
unknown," he added. http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-
/2/hi/americas/2841455.stm

ABDUCTEES SUFFER DISTURBING EXPERIENCES

DENVER -- Jonathan Amos BBC News Online science staff writes,
"People who claim to have been kidnapped by aliens have a
tendency to believe in fantasies and suffer disturbing
experiences in their sleep, scientists have found. But the
researchers say "abductees" also believe in their experiences so
deeply that they display real stress symptoms similar to those
of traumatized battlefield veterans. The latest research on the
"taken" phenomenon was unveiled at the annual meeting of the
American Association for the Advancement of Science in Denver.
"This underscores the power of emotional belief," Professor
Richard McNally, from Harvard University, told the BBC. If you
genuinely believe you've been traumatized and recall these
memories, you'll show the same psycho-physiologic emotional
reactions as people who really have been traumatized." A group
of abductees told the BBC about their experiences on Saturday.
One of them said: "I've had several encounters with alien craft
and I've had an alien implant removed from my body." It was
typical of the stories they all had to relate. There are about
four million Americans who believe they have been abducted by
extraterrestrials. Scientists believe this clearly is not true,
so why do abductees believe they have been taken? Professor
McNally has found that many of them share personality traits and
sleep disorders. "Most of them had pre-existing new-age beliefs
-- they were into bio-energetic therapies, past lives, astral
projection, tarot cards, and so on," he said. "Second, they have
episodes of apparent sleep paralysis accompanied by
hallucinations." These frightening experiences usually prompted
the individuals to visit therapists, who would frequently
suggest alien abduction as a cause -- an explanation which the
abductees readily accepted, he said. Professor McNally has come
up with a rational explanation of alien abduction experiences
which was endorsed by other psychologists in Denver. He said the
individuals conformed to a "common recipe." But the researcher
stressed that many of the people really did believe what they
were saying. In laboratory experiments, individuals were asked
to relate their experiences. These stories were played back to
them and their physical responses recorded. "When a Vietnam vet
has his experiences played back to him in the lab of some combat
event, his heart rate goes up and you see an increase in
sweating. If you don't have post-traumatic stress disorder, you
don't react that way. "The heart-rate responses and sweating
responses were at least as great in the alien abductees when
they heard their memories of being taken and molested by space
aliens and subjected to experiments as those of people with
genuine traumatic events." Thanks to BBC News, 11 March 2003 -
http://news.bbc.co.uk/

Editor's Note: How can multiple abductees located hundreds of
mile apart have the same traumatic memories for the same night?
There is more a great deal more evidence for abductions than
these experts choose to examine!

MAINE - A LARGE TURQUOISE COLORED SPHERE

WINDHAM -- The witness was outside at work with others at 5 PM
on March 8, 2003, when a coworker called for them to look up in
the sky. The witness states, "We saw a turquoise colored sphere
moving slowly across the dark sky. It appeared larger than a
normal aircraft and the light was much bluer than a typical
plane. It moved slowly and seemed to turn gray right before it
disappeared." Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC

CONNECTICUT FLYING TRIANGLE OR DIAMOND

MOOSUP -- It was 4:10 AM, and the witnesses were driving north
on Route 395, on March 3, 2003, when they saw a square or
triangular shape object. If you place your forefingers and
thumbs together -- you will see a shape like this <>. There were
lights at each "point" and a band of light blue lights that
connected the four. Bright white and blue lights were moving
around the craft. The sky was full of stars but in the center of
the craft was blackness. I yelled at my husband to stop and go
back, but he wouldn't because we would be late for work. He
later admitted to being afraid. It was just hovering above Route
14 making no sound. It was 300 feet away and was 50 feet on all
four sides or around 200 total feet, or the size of a foot ball
field. Thanks to: Peter Davenport NUFORC

FLORIDA STRANGE LARGE FLYING TRIANGLE

MILTON -- It was about 10:30 PM, on March 10, 2003, the witness
was taking out the trash when he had a strange feeling just
before seeing a large dark triangle shaped object that was at
least 80 feet long. It was about 50 feet wide at it widest
point, with a large bluish light on the bottom of each tip of
the triangle. The witness states, "I could actually see that the
bottom of this thing was not smooth, but had form and small dips
and valleys in it like something machine/manmade." I heard a
faint hum and was in shock because it appeared to be only about
200 feet high with a blurry haze around it. I looked down to
clear my eyes and looked back up and it was much smaller. I
looked down again to clear my eyes from the light and looked
back up and it was gone. It was like a dream, but I don't think
I was dreaming, but I felt impending doom. Thanks to Peter
Davenport NUFORC

WEST VIRGINIA -ORANGE COMPACT DISC SHAPED UFO

NEW MARTINSVILLE -- Five men were standing outside at 8 PM, on
March 8, 2003, and noticed an orange compact disc shaped object
moving very quickly through the air. It had a slight zigzag to
it's movement but there was no exhaust trail. There were no
blinking lights to indicate an air plane, plus it moved in a way
too erratic for any aircraft. The center was not as lit as the
outside edges were. All of us saw the shape. At one point, we
moved because it was starting to go behind some trees. Three of
us went one way, two of us went another. From about a hundred
feet apart, all of us saw it until it disappeared into the
horizon. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC

OHIO - BRIGHT LIGHTS IN 'V' PATTERN HANG IN SKY'

CUYAHOGA FALLS -- The witness was taking his dog out at 10:15
PM, when he saw lights in a "V" formation moving quickly and
silently on March 3, 2003. He states, "I saw a 'V' shaped
formation of 12 to 15 lights traveling very quickly northwest.
They were traveling, silently, and in a few seconds were out of
sight. The individual lights though staying in formation seemed
to flit around. It made me think of a group of clear spheres
flying in formation with a single firefly darting around in each
one, if you can imagine that.

COLUMBUS -- An ATP-rated Learjet captain was flying as copilot
in a Cessna Citation II, on March 7, 2003, at 0515 GMT when he
saw three bright lights in a triangular pattern hanging in the
sky to the north near Cassiopeia, at an estimated altitude of
45-49000 feet. The witness was flying at 39,000 feet and asked
his partner if he was watching? He said yes. The lights were all
of a greater relative magnitude than Sirius -- perhaps equaling
or greater than Venus in brightness. After about 5 to 10
seconds, the lights began to move eastward, accelerating rapidly
and fading from view simultaneously (may have been receding?).
No aircraft in my experience has ever accelerated so quickly. We
believe it was one object -- though no details could be made out
between the lights. It might have been three separate objects
but they would have had to have been maintaining a precise
formation during acceleration. Both pilots have been flying
aircraft for over 15 years, and neither had ever seen anything
like this.

CZALESKI -- I just chanced to look at a particular part of the
sky at 7:45 PM, on March 10, 2003, just in time to catch a look
at this object. It was perfectly round orange sphere and
unusually large for a meteor I thought. It had no tail
whatsoever and was orange in color with dark spots in it. It
fell slower than a meteor would and I stood waiting for a boom,
but heard no sound. He states, "That's my story, and I'm
stickin' to it." Thanks to Peter Davenport  NUFORC

MISSOURI - OBJECT HOVERS OVER A FIELD

ASHLAND -- While driving to Columbia MO. at around 10 PM on
March 8, we spotted a bright star in the sky just above the tree
lines about seven miles away from it. The object did not appear
to move and as we got closer it had several white lights. When
we came right up parallel to it, the object seemed to be
hovering over a field with a protruding spot light. As we passed
the object, we turned to view it from our back window. A bright
red light flashed on the top of the object and one on the
bottom. Then, after a minute or so, the lights began to flash
all around the bottom of the craft, which made it appear to be
spinning. We continued to watch when all the sudden the craft
quickly crossed the highway and caught up with us instantly. It
flew close but after a couple minutes the craft disappeared
behind the trees. NUFORC

LOUISIANA - TRANSPARENT FLYING TRIANGLES

WESTLAKE -- While on the job on March 4, 2003, two workers
observed three craft flying over at a very high rate of speed.
We both witnessed the three craft as these objects flew toward
the Northeast. The witness states, "What really shocked the both
of us was that they were transparent!" I could see the clouds
right inside of the craft. Thanks to Peter Davenport

ARIZONA - BLACK OBJECT SITTING ON THE ROAD

CHINO VALLEY -- On March 5, 2003, A black object was sitting on
the dirt road (or hovering just above it) at the top of the hill
in front of two observers at 9 PM, who stated, "It was at least
as big as a school bus but didn't seem to be made of anything
solid." It was like a black and gray cloud that moved like an
octopus. It came around to the side of our car and passed over
the hood and windshield no more than 10 feet off the ground. It
made no sound at all. It followed us for about half a mile and
we were spotlighted in a bright, white light that must have been
above us. Then it was gone. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC

CALIFORNIA - GREENISH GLOWING DISK FLIES OVER

LOS ALTOS -- Sighting occurred at 1:45 AM, on March 10, 2003,
when the witness looked out the bedroom window, there appeared
this strange craft. The observer states, "I swear it had the
appearance of NCG-1701 'Star Trek' and it suddenly 'poof' --
there it was where there had just been empty night sky." The
ship's forward area (the round construction) was glowing a fuzzy
lime green, while the rest of the ship was dark -- without
lights on the periphery. I would estimate that the size of this
thing was very large, in that if I held my hand at arm's length,
the object would almost have filled in the space of 4 fingers
(thumb tucked). Unfortunately, the sighting lasted for less than
5 seconds because it just as suddenly disappeared -- 'poof'--
again. Thanks to Peter Davenport

WASHINGTON - UNEXPLAINED TIME LOSS ON THE ROAD

WENATCHEE -- The witness was taking out the garbage on March 3,
2003, when he saw a bright light in the western sky at 10:40 PM.
The light was too bright and within a matter of seconds the
object almost seemed to zero in on me dodging left and right in
an unfamiliar pattern at various speeds. I called to my
girlfriend to come and see it. As she came to the door we both
saw a large circular structure or sphere with bright white
lights on the left and right sides, a red at the bottom and a
sort of blue or green at the top. The craft traveled about five
miles away to 50 feet above my head in probably 20 seconds. I am
a retired software consultant. I have been very
skeptical/analytical about supposed "sightings" for the great
part of my adult life. But what I saw tonight will change my
reality forever. My girlfriend is a college student/waitress.
She witnessed the event with me and concurred with my
description.

SEATTLE -- It was around 6 PM, on February 12, when my 14 year
old daughter asked me what that burning orange light was? My 11
year old son and I saw a moving glowing orange, or burning round
object moving at a steady rate of speed and altitude at just
above tree level. My son grabbed his binoculars and said it
looked like a spinning top with an antenna on the top of it.

SEATTLE -- A crime investigation specialist was on his way to a
crime scene outside of Seattle on February 13, 2003, at 2:30 AM.
He had to be at the crime scene by 3:00 AM so he rushed a
little. The witness states, "It was beginning to rain, and my
car started making these weird noises the radio turned on
automatically and started tuning to numerous stations, the
lights inside and outside the car were flashing, when I looked
up and saw this huge triangle shaped thing above the car." In a
few seconds a blue, blinding lights distracted me. Suddenly, it
all stopped and my car was parked on the side of the road with
everything switched off, and I looked at my watch and it read
03:03 AM. I then realized I lost 33 minutes. I turned on my car
and drove to work with a lot of confusion on my mind.

LAKEWOOD -- A man called to report that his watch, which
normally is quite accurate, was off by approximately one hour,
and that he discovered three peculiar marks on his neck at 7 AM,
on February 14, 2002, that were "like moles." He stated that he
had photographed the marks, and would provide copies of the
photos. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC

CANADA - BRIGHT LIGHT

PRINCE RUPERT, BC -- Brian Vike reports on Friday, March 7,
2003, at 7:30 PM, a father and daughter were outside when they
saw this bright white light shoot over towards Mount Hays.
Traveling southeast for two to three seconds, it just blinks out
when it was over Mount Hays, it was the brightest white light
that we have ever seen. My daughter told me that she had seen
almost the same thing just two weeks ago while with her friend
Patricia at 4:30 AM, the object they saw wasn't as bright as
this one, but also blinked out over Mount Hays.

HBCC UFO Note: This sighting "might" be easily explained as a
meteor, but after receiving so many reports for Northern British
Columbia, I am not putting this down to a meteor just yet.
Thanks to Brian Vike, Director of the Houston, British Columbia,
Canada UFO Research organization, hbccufo@telus.net,
http://www.geocities.com/hbccufo/home.html

COSTA RICA - LIGHTS ON SAUCER DANCING IN THE SKY

MONTEVERDE -- On February 28, 2003, it all started at 1 AM, with
five dogs barking wildly, and then they all ran away. "We looked
to see what was up, and saw a single blue white light, that had
red, orange and green lights spinning around the top." A steady
bright white light was at the base. The light was dancing in the
sky, making deep drops, and steep climbs, other times staying
motionless. When it appeared the light turned to the other side,
we could see the outline shape of a saucer. At times the object
appeared to send rays of reddish light downward to earth. The
light at time seemed bright and focused in our direction, at
other times dim and focused away. It was mostly in the southwest
sky toward Puntarenas and then south over Panama. Once the light
disappeared, the dogs all quieted down.

UFO FLAP SWEEPS BRAZIL

BRASILIA -- The Distrito Federal which is home to the capital is
now in the midst of a UFO flap. The first sighting in the D.F.
took place on February 4, 2003, "when a UFO hovered 100 feet
away from a witness." Four days later, "a silver UFO was
hovering in the air" in a rural district of the Distrito Federal
"just a few meters off the ground." On March 1, 2003, at 10:15
p.m., Aurezio Galo, 33, who lives in Gama Leste, fetched his
binoculars to observe a round object with red, orange and white
colors around it that pulsated and rotated. On March 8, 2003, "a
UFO was sighted in Maceio," a large port city at around 6:30 PM,
crossing over the city, with a luminous aura that pulsed at
regular intervals. Inside the aura was a misty blue and yellow
object. The UFO moved in a zigzagging trajectory for one
minute." Thanks to Thiago Luiz Tichetti e Paulo Silva Countinho

CHILE - NEW WAVE OF UFO SIGHTINGS

CALAMA -- On Sunday, March 2, 2003, many people in Northern
Chile saw a bright object fly across the city and a similar
object appeared the following morning, This object was very
bright and appeared to suddenly change speed and direction.
Calama was the site of hundreds of UFO sightings in 2001 and
2002. Many eyewitnesses had time to get their binoculars to get
a better look at it."    "A local television channel began
broadcasting live images of the object at 3:30 p.m." for two
hours on Sunday, February 23. Catholic high school students
reported seeing a strange alien being near their campus. Various
other sightings of alien beings have been reported to the Centro
UFO de Calama. Thanks to Jaime Ferrer y Mario Andrade and Dr.
Virgilio Sanchez Ocejo UFO Roundup Vol. 8, # 11 3/13/03, Joe
Trainor editor

FARMERS REPORT NEW CATTLE MUTILATIONS IN ARGENTINA

BUENOS AIRES -- On February 25 and 26, 2003, four luminous UFOs
hovered repeatedly over the capital of Argentina. Ufologist
Ricardo E. D'Angelo reported. "The UFOs appeared at 8:52 PM, and
then departed to the southeast, over the Rio de la Plata. The
maneuvers UFOs lasted all night." "I saw intense flashes--
pulses of blue light--from my apartment balcony, both nights. On
March 6, 2003, at 7:35 p.m., a UFO was seen in Rufino.

FORMOSA -- Francisco FAZIO reports, "We have received many
reports of cases of cattle mutilations throughout the state of
Formosa, in Northern Argentina." Officials do not allow
publication of these stories, and we only have unofficial
reports from farmers, witnesses and agricultural producers. The
authorities quickly dispatch the police, photograph the animals
and send info directly to SENASA Formosa and the evidence to
INTA, (National Institute for Agricultural Technology) in Buenos
Aires. Similar mutilations are being reported in Paraguay

Mr. Francisco Fazio Baiz is offering videos for sale VHS format
PAL or NTSC system available prices listed in: euros for europe
u.s. dollars for all the world:

1. CATTLE MUTILATIONS IN NORTH OF ARGENTINA   U$S 50.-

2. CATTLE MUTILATIONS IN LA PAMPA    U$S 70.-

3. NUCLEAR SIGNS IN NORTH OF ARGENTINA. WITNESS,  REPORT, AND
ANALYSIS  U$S 50.-

4. THE FIRST 2002 CATTLE  MUTILATION CASE COMPLETE ANALYSIS  U$S
70.- UFO FOOTAGE FROM ARGENTINA   U$S 50.

5. HIDDEN AUDIO AND CAMERA ON THE SENASA GOVERNMENT  OFFICES
ABOUT THE SECRECY OF THE CATTLE MUTILATIONS IN ARGENTINA   U$S
50.

6. SCIENTIFIC PAPERS.  U$S 40.- Copyright permissions can be
flexible. ufoargentina@yahoo.com.ar Outside of Argentina call
00(54)(9)(2345)659644-ARGENTINA UFO VIDEO PRODUCTIONS Internet
Desde Buenos Aires, 4004-1010. ufoargentina@yahoo.com.ar, FAX:
00(54)(9)(2317)424458
http://conexion.yahoo.com.ar/avanzados.html

Editor's Note: I have not seen the videos and suggest you
contact Mr. Baiz directly.

SEVERE ALLERGY FORECAST IN WAKE OF SNOW

The rapidly increasing numbers of people suffering from
allergies is now up to roughly 55 million people according to
the Courier Post. Allergy sufferers will be hard hit because of
the moisture accumulated by heavy snows and rains that has
nurtured mold and will fuel pollen production as the
temperatures rise. Weekly, I also get letters from people who
claim to be suffering from what they call Chemtrail illness
generated by jet engine and auto emissions. Here are a few keys
that you If you suffer from allergies or pollution keep your
windows closed in your home and cars. Limit outdoor activity on
windy days with high pollen counts and heavy contrails. Shower
and wash your hair before you go to sleep. Limit smoking and if
you have a pet wipe down its fur to remove the pollen when it
comes in. Don't mow lawns that stir up molds and pollen.

We can't stop the cars and aircraft from flying and the
pollution in the air, but it does seem to be effecting millions.
My son, daughter and wife were having serious allergy, and
pollution associated illnesses. I asked a Medical Doctor friend
who was visiting us, what he would recommend for pollen and
toxins in the air. He told me he treats 62 different ailments
with amazing success such as allergies, sinus, asthma, smokers
cough, and various breathing problems. He uses antioxidant
vitamins C, E, Beta-carotene, Coenzyme Q10 plus Isotonix OPC-3
for treatment that was tested in Pasteur Institute with no side
effects and food safe. He considers Isotonix OPC-3 the most
powerful antioxidant, free radical scavenger known to man, and
one of the greatest discoveries in history. He has excellent
results with Fibromyalgia and a long list of problems associated
with a weak immune system. If you smoke or live in an area with
heavy pollen and engine exhaust pollution, you can heal many
problems with Isotonix OPC-3, that is made from natures natural
products, so you don't need a prescription. When my family
started taking OPC-3 within days the sneezing, running nose and
congestion was gone. My family saved about a $100 a month on
antihistamines and various drugs just by taking the pleasant
tasting natural grape product. More important my family felt
better, were able to produce more at work and got a substantial
pay raise. They over came itching eyes and ears, sneezing,
running nose and headaches. Get fast non drowsy relief for
allergy problems, feel better and younger because it improves
the skin, feel and look healthier and younger. There were
amazing side effects, because OPC-3 enhanced cell vitality,
improved vision and reduces stress, I was so impressed by the
results for about a dollar a day, that I'm offering it to anyone
who has similar problems. Just use Visa or MasterCard at:
Isotonix OPC-3

WHAT YOU SHOULD KNOW WHEN HIRING REAL ESTATE AGENT! Learn how
you can obtain the best real estate agent for your needs. To get
a free copy of this report e-mail me at  Majorstar@aol.com

BREAK THROUGH IN ANTI-AGING -- To learn more about the new
science of anti-aging, and how to stop the clock for a younger,
sexier, happier you go to:  Anti-aging

UFO DEFENSE TACTICS, WEATHER SHIELD TO CHEMTRAILS

A. K. Johnstone, Ph.D., explores with evidence, the creation of
a weather shield to deter UFOs from entering earth's atmosphere,
by manipulating weather elecotromagnetically and with
chemtrails. Numerous UFO sightings are examined from a
scientific viewpoint, including EM pulses, and fireballs. Order
illustrated book, $14.95 from Hancock House 1-800-938-1114.

THE GREAT UFO/ET CONGRESS OF 2003

Will be held on April 5 & 6, at The Days Inn, Bordentown, New
Jersey. Confirmed speakers are: Rick Hilberg, Anthony & Lynn
Volpe, Eugenia Macer-Story, Pierre Bolduc, Stanton Friedman,
Rober VanderClock, Graham Bethune, Rich Dolan, and Paul
Bartholomew See: drufo.org

MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative
reports subscribe to the MUFON JOURNAL. A MUFON membership
includes the Journal and costs only $35.00 per year. To join
MUFON or to report a UFO go to http://www.mufon.com/. To ask
questions contact MUFONHQ@aol.com or HQ@mufon.com. Mention that
I recommended you for membership.

Filer's Files is copyrighted 2003 by George A. Filer, all rights
reserved. Readers may post the COMPLETE files on their Web Sites
if they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list
the date of issue. These reports and comments are not
necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON viewpoint. Send your letters to
Majorstar@aol.com. Sending mail automatically grants permission
for us to publish and use your name. Please state if you wish to
keep your name, address, or story confidential. CAUTION, MOST OF
THESE ARE INITIAL REPORTS AND REQUIRE FURTHER INVESTIGATION.

Regards,

George Filer  www.Georgefiler.com








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Mar > Mar 19

                            Re: Rods - Stevenson

From: Colin Stevenson <colin@c2k2.fsworld.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 17:26:46 -0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 15:03:57 -0500
Subject: Re: Rods - Stevenson


 >From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@charter.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 15:47:20 -0800
 >Subject: Re: Rods

 >From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 05:25:33 +0100
 >Subject: Rods [was: Watching World War 2 Documentrie...]

 >>From: Colin Stevenson <colin@c2k2.fsworld.co.uk>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 16:24:01 -0000
 >>Subject: Re: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S

 >>>From: Barry Taylor <stingray@nor.com.au>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 10:18:05 +1100
 >>>Subject: Watching World War 2 Documentrie We Seen Ufo,S

 >>>>><very big snip>

 >>>>>Hello again Larry and all
 >>>>><commercial break>

 >>>>>Believe it or not, I have a video of a Rod (approx. 6 inch)
 >>>>>passing straight through a Female's head

 >>>>I wonder if I read you wrong but in the above are you talking
 >>>>about an X rated video?

 >>>Colin, have a closer look at this footage and you will see that
 >>>a fast moving insect flies "behind" her head.

 >>>If the "Rod" is 6 inches long, than why do you need to slow down
 >>>the footage frame-by-frame to see it? Because it is "Motion
 >>>Blur" of a smaller object (insect)

 >>Mearly mentioned rods to maybe be an explanation for the UFO
 >>seen in the documentary. If rods are actually insects then maybe
 >>the UFO on the documentary also shows insects. If rods exist or
 >>not, as I say in my post, is still being investigated and may or
 >>may not be true. Never seen an insect fly at a persons head, go
 >>arround the head faster than approuch then continue its course
 >>having picked up the hair dye (red) of the person?

 >>Mind you having seen rods hanging from a ceiling of a derelict
 >>property, dropping and flying arround at tremendous speed and
 >>also seeing them hanging from a cave ceiling may be a
 >>hallucination? As are the photographs and video footage taken?

 >>Misconception of that seen and filmed may apply but as l said in
 >>my post they are under investigation as are the shrivelled dead
 >>bodies of them killed by sulphur powder. So I agree that rods do
 >>not exist and are a camera artifact or they are insects - sorry,
 >>no.

 >>Also agree that footage of rods should be XXX rated as they can
 >>sometimes seem horrific in their action and flight.

 >Can you please describe and explain exactly how Rods "are under
 >investigation as are the shriveled bodies of them killed by
 >sulphur powder"? What are the shriveled bodies?

 >Thanks,

 >Josh

 >Hello All,

 >Ah, the shriveled bodies of Sulphur-killed grasshoppers?
 >beetles, Canaries?

 >let's see the corpse of a rod! Well thrown pepperoni sticks
 >don't count. (I haven't had lunch yet.)

 >GT McCoy

Hello again Josh, GT and all

Rods are under investigation by me and others due to their
possible connection to ET craft and as yet we have no conclusive
proof other than the shrivelled body of one which analysis
showed to be a ( tongue in cheek ) anthratic lifeform of sorts.
As the rod became a glutinous mass similar to slimemolds, but
larger, it is difficult to fully realise a proper analysis in
detail as the sulphur powder which killed it was also present
and interacted. We also have tentetive ( still not definate ) of
Rods courtship in the sky and their association with electro
energy area's ( near high tension electric supply pylons ) and
also sightings in cluster areas in known areas of hauntings and
old roads with satanic, or refference to, like Hoads Road etc.
There may also be a loose connection to un dipped sheep ( wool
of ) but evidence in that area is very scant at present but
being looked into closely. Some large tenuous cobwebs are
thought also to be Rods which died naturally and fell to the
ground. The connection between satanic or hauntings and sulfer
is obvious as something similar is apparently smelled in these
areas therefore leading to interest in Rods of which little data
is definate.

As full investigations, theories and definate facts are as yet
not 'firmed up' these proofs will be published some time in the
future.


Kind Wishes,

Colin









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   Mar > Mar 19

                Re: 'Prophet' Opens Theme Park For Our Alien

From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 20:06:44 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 20:10:37 -0500
Subject: Re: 'Prophet' Opens Theme Park For Our Alien


 >Source: The Observer - UK

 >http://www.observer.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,915242,00.html

 >'Prophet' opens theme park for our alien heritage

 >Robin McKie, science editor
 >Sunday March 16, 2003
 >The Observer

 >He has written books that have sold more than 56 million copies,
 >served three years in jail for tax evasion, and spent the past
 >30 years trying to convince the world that most of our famous
 >ancient structures were built by creatures from another world.

 >But now Erich von Daniken, author of Chariot of the Gods and
 >more than two dozen 'true-life' accounts of alien visitation, is
 >set to join the ranks of the world's media elite: he is about to
 >open his own theme park.

<snip>

Oyoyoy,

This post is informative but disgusting. As if Eric von D had
not done a great disservice by putting out his slop through
books, talks, and TV. Now we have this crackpot theme park
coming to life.

I wonder if it will have a Billy Meier area with a robot of him
and Semjase who will be "prophesizing"? Will there be a Raelian
cloned mutual masturbation religious area? I would not be
surprised if there is an area where E Von D claims that the
aliens had originally designed the World Trade Center.

Well, at least people can make a short hop from there to the new
Dracula theme park that is being built in Romania. There is a
rumor that no one with blood containing infectious organisms
will be admitted.


Shalom,

Josh









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                  Daniken & His Ancient Astronaut Theories

From: Chris Evers <hufos1@hufos1.karoo.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 20:01:23 -0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 20:12:15 -0500
Subject: Daniken & His Ancient Astronaut Theories


Hi EBK and Listers

I do realise that this may be a mild attempt at teaching grandma
to suck eggs, but I have written a small article on Von Daniken
and his theories, which may be read at:

www.hufos1.karoo.net/was_et.htm

Please do enjoy.


Best regards

Chris Evers

EYE









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   Mar > Mar 19

                    Re: New Bentwaters Documentary - Pope

From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 21:43:18 -0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 20:14:57 -0500
Subject: Re: New Bentwaters Documentary - Pope


 >From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 02:55:20 -0000
 >Subject: Re: New Bentwaters Documentary

 >>From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 21:42:32 -0000
 >>Subject: New Bentwaters Documentary

<snip>

 >>The comments I have seen so far, both from believers and
 >>sceptics, have been negative. Programme consultant Georgina
 >>Bruni has been criticised by people who were expecting more new
 >>data, but I do not believe this is fair comment. In researching
 >>her book on the case, "You Can't Tell The People", Georgina
 >>built up a rapport with many of the witnesses, several of whom
 >>she now counts as friends. More importantly from a research
 >>point of view, she secured testimony from several new witnesses,
 >>together with new documents and photographs from the Ministry of
 >>Defence and the USAF. It was Georgina's hope that the programme
 >>would focus more on the witnesses (especially the new ones) than
 >>the ufologists, and initial indications were encouraging.
 >>Ultimately, however, budgetary and time constraints precluded
 >>the participation of most of these people. But this was
 >>Mentorn's decision, not Georgina's.

 >One wonders that if Mentorn had not paid for Georgina's services
 >(which it would seem they didn't really use), there may have
 >been more budget and time available to improve the content of
 >the programme?

Had Mentorn not engaged Georgina Bruni as programme consultant,
I suspect they would have struggled to make the programme at
all, especially as there was an unusually short time between the
date on which the programme was commissioned formally by the
BBC, and the date on which it had to be delivered. Georgina
Bruni provided extensive advice and material to Mentorn, very
quickly. So far as I am aware, her contribution included the
following: an overview of the case itself, including a
chronology and a 'who's who' of witnesses; liaison with various
USAF witnesses (some of whom had not been interviewed before)
securing their agreement to appear on the programme; details of
ufologists and experts who might be used; details of the various
theories surrounding the case; the witness statements from
Burroughs, Penniston, Cabansag, Buran and Chandler; the USAF
photographs of the landing site; a good copy of Halt's tape (she
obtained the original cassette made from Halt's microcassette
from Sam Morgan); and copies of the key documents from the MOD's
file, with advice on MOD acronyms, procedures etc. I believe it
was time and budgetary constraints that meant the documentary
featured more UK-based ufologists than US-based witnesses,
meaning that the programme focused more on the investigation
than the incidents. But this was Mentorn's decision, and though
neither believers nor sceptics seem to have got the programme
they wanted, none of this was Georgina's fault.

<snip>

 >You will see from my comments in the appended post that I
 >remarked that you made no mention of the radiation readings at
 >Rendlesham. Was this due to editorial omission, or have you
 >changed your view on the importance of the radiation readings?

I have not altered my belief that the radiation readings taken
are extremely important. There are, as you will be aware,
debates over whether the readings were recorded accurately, and
over the suitability of the equipment used to take the readings.
But any investigation of this aspect of the case must start with
the data actually provided, and not subjective analyses of these
data. Bear in mind also that the initial advice we received from
specialists in the Defence Intelligence Staff was that Halt's
reading of 0.1 milliroentgens "seems significantly higher than
the average background of about 0.015 mr". This assessment is
recorded in a document dated 23 February 1981, which is on the
MOD website, and is the eighth document in the link below:

http://www.mod.uk/linked_files/publications/foi/ufo/ufofilepart1.pdf

Later on in the MOD file is a note (dated 15 April 1994) of a
conversation that I had with Giles Cowling from the Defence
Radiological Protection Service, following my re-opening of the
MOD's investigation into this incident. His view on Halt's data
was that the peak reading was ten times background levels.

Halt's original readings and the two official MOD analyses of
these readings are still vitally important. That said, the case
does not stand or fall on the radiation data alone. The
radiation readings must be considered alongside the witness
testimonies, the radar data, and other aspects of this
intriguing case.


Best wishes,

Nick Pope







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   Mar > Mar 19

                  Re: New Bentwaters Documentary - Roberts

From: Andy Roberts <aj.roberts@blueyonder.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 21:56:32 -0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 20:17:56 -0500
Subject: Re: New Bentwaters Documentary - Roberts


 >From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 21:42:32 -0000
 >Subject: New Bentwaters Documentary


Pilgrims,

Nick's post on the recently aired Rendlesham documentary has
raised many questions.

 >On Saturday March 15, BBC 3 (a UK digital TV channel) screened a
 >new documentary on the Bentwaters case. The programme had been
 >made by Mentorn, an independent production company, and was
 >entitled "Britain's Closest Encounter".

 >The Ministry of Defence did not put up an official spokesperson,
 >but I made some general comments (in a private capacity) about
 >how and why the British Government investigates UFO sightings.
 >Former Chief of the Defence Staff Lord Hill-Norton made it clear
 >that he believes the events were of defence significance.

Nick may not have appeared in officially but consider this quote
Nick gave:

"Historically the MOD has certainly not covered up but has
certainly down-played the subject (UFOs)... and given the
excitability of certain people within the UFO lobby I think
that's quite understandable."

Which 'excitable' people would they be then?

In the context of the Rendlsham case these must surely include
his colleague Georgina Bruni, who is 'friends' with key
witnesses. Georgina has made the most alarming claims about what
took place at Rendlesham, yet has failed to back these up with
any credible evidence. Excitable indeed.

And when it comes to the 'UFO lobby', surely isn't Nick himself
at the heart of it? Nick, after all lectures, writes and makes
part of his living advertising his unsubstantiated belief that
extraterrestrials are visiting earth.

Surely this is part of the 'UFO lobby'? And let's not forget
Nick's claim in the pre-publication manuscript of 'Open Skies',
that he was 'abducted' whilst in America. That's about as much
part of the 'UFO lobby' as you can get. (Incidentally, for those
who don't believe this the ms. was seen by two well known
ufologists on this list and has been discussed in print.).

 >The lighthouse hypothesis was the main theory put forward by
 >sceptics, but Charles Halt was familiar with the lighthouse, and
 >stated that it was visible at the same time as the UFO.

I think we're back in Radical Misperception territory here.
Witnesses - even 'credible' military ones- are often mistaken
about what they have seen.

 >The comments I have seen so far, both from believers and
 >sceptics, have been negative.

Then you clearly haven't seen all the discussions. I think
you'll find that my colleague Dave Clarke, who was featured
heavily, was very pleased. Those who are not 'happy' tend to be
from the extreme end of the belief spectrum, ie they are ET
believers or debunkers. The documentary was rather more focussed
on the effects the Rendlesham case has had on people's lives,
together with comment from those qualified.

 >Programme consultant Georgina
 >Bruni has been criticised by people who were expecting more new
 >data, but I do not believe this is fair comment.

Yet if Georgina was 'consultant' in anything other than lip
service (and please note she doesn't appear in the documentary!)
she must have suggested and ok'd the content to some degree. You
can't have it both ways!

 >In researching
 >her book on the case, "You Can't Tell The People", Georgina
 >built up a rapport with many of the witnesses, several of whom
 >she now counts as friends.

This is most entertaining. Surely if you are investigating the
objective facts of a particular UFO cases becoming 'friends'
with the witness/es is a dangerous and stupid thing to do.
Becoming friendly immediately affects an investigator's ability
to be an objective researcher. It's a sad but true fact that
when investigators seek to become 'friends' with witnesses it is
in the hope that they may be given access to information others
aren't privy to. The acquisition of information in this way is
automatically suspect.

The Mentorn documentary was an excellent overview of an
interesting case. That neither the consultants, experts and
witnesses could not make it sound more 'real' than a multiple
Blair Witch Project experience speaks volumes for the available
'evidence'. If those who believe the documentary was 'negative'
are unhappy about it they should have either refused to take
part or to have given the documentary makers some evidence which
proved some event of relevance took place there.

Blaming the documentary makers after the event is rather
disingenuous.


Happy Trails

Andy





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   Mar > Mar 20

                          Secrecy News -- 03/20/03

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 12:55:57 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 15:27:38 -0500
Subject: Secrecy News -- 03/20/03


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2003, Issue No. 24
March 20, 2003


**      WAR AND CENSORSHIP
**      NSA SEEKS FOIA EXEMPTION FOR OPERATIONAL FILES
**      SCIENCE AND SECURITY
**      NEW ACQUISITIONS
**      FACING THE TRUTHS OF HISTORY


WAR AND CENSORSHIP

Information policy, including both secrecy and strategic
disclosure, is one of the weapons of war, used to coerce,
threaten or seduce the enemy, to protect sensitive operations,
and to mobilize and sustain public support.

However, the efficiency of this form of "information warfare" is
undermined by the growing multiplicity of competing information
channels, including internet-based news media.

In a blunt effort to cope with this new reality, Israel's
military censor yesterday contacted several Israeli websites to
"remind" them  -- to uncertain effect -- that they are required
to comply with the same censorship rules as are print and
broadcast media.

"Censors will be working 24 hours a day" to review submissions,
Brig. Gen. Rachel Dolev wrote.  "Given the circumstances [of the
war on Iraq], I know I can count on your full cooperation, as
required."

The Israeli Chief Censor's March 19 memos were posted on the web
by Israeli attorney Boaz Guttman.  Translations and a link to
the originals may be found here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2003/03/is031903.html

The United States Government does not normally practice
censorship in the narrow sense of restricting or altering news
reports.  But it generates classified "secrets" at a faster pace
than any other country and imposes a variety of controls on
unclassified information as well.

A compendium of "Department of Defense Webmasters Policies And
Guidelines," including discussions of what information may and
may not be published online, may be found here:

http://www.defenselink.mil/webmasters/


NSA SEEKS FOIA EXEMPTION FOR OPERATIONAL FILES

The National Security Agency is asking Congress to grant an
exemption from the Freedom of Information Act for NSA
"operational files," enabling the Agency to categorically reject
FOIA requests for such files.

The proposed exemption was included in a package of legislative
proposals submitted for consideration in the FY 2004 Defense
Authorization Act.

"Currently, when NSA receives a FOIA request for records that
document the means by which foreign intelligence or
counterintelligence is collected through technical means, the
Agency almost invariably withholds them on the bases that they
are classified and pertain to core Agency activities," according
to the DoD request.  "Yet, processing these requests may require
Agency personnel to be diverted from key mission areas, such as
fighting the war on terrorism."

Similar exemptions have been granted to the CIA (in 1984), the
National Imagery and Mapping Agency (1999), and the National
Reconnaissance Office (2002).  Remarkably, a proposal to exempt
operational files of the Defense Intelligence Agency from FOIA
was rejected in 2000 after public controversy erupted.

The NSA FOIA exemption proposal was first reported by Anne
Plummer in Inside the Pentagon on March 20.

The text of the Defense Department's justification for the
proposal may be found here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2003/03/nsaopfiles.html


SCIENCE AND SECURITY

The ongoing debate over whether and how to regulate potentially
dangerous scientific research is yielding a consensus of opinion
that rejects externally-imposed controls and depends strongly on
self-regulation by scientists themselves.

"Traditional 'command and control' governance mechanisms will
not work," wrote Gigi Kwik in the latest issue of Biodefense
Quarterly.  "Traditional approaches are neither effective nor
efficient when applied to complex, diffuse, and rapidly evolving
entitities like... bioscience."

"Over time, we must build a network of checks and balances:
regulations, incentives, cultural expectations and practices
that encourage and enable progress in scientific understanding
... while simultaneously assuring responsible stewardship of
bioscience so that it is not used for malevolent purposes," she
said.

Dr. Kwik proposed a set of principles to inform and guide future
debate on the subject.  See her "Biosecurity: Science in the
Balance" in Biodefense Quarterly, the newsletter of the Johns
Hopkins Center for Civilian Biodefense Strategies, Winter 2003:

http://www.hopkins-biodefense.org/pages/news/pdf/quarter4_3.pdf


NEW ACQUISITIONS

"The Judge Advocate's Handbook For Litigating National Security
Cases: Prosecuting, Defending and Adjudicating National Security
Cases," Office of the Judge Advocate General, Department of the
Navy, 2002:

  http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/jaghandbook.pdf

"Iraq: Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD) Capable Missiles and
Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAVs)" by Andrew Feickert,
Congressional Research Service, updated March 3, 2003:

http://www.fas.org/man/crs/RS21376.pdf

"Foreign Students in the United States: Policies and
Legislation" by Ruth Ellen Wasem, Congressional Research
Service, updated January 24, 2003:

http://www.fas.org/irp/crs/RL31146.pdf


FACING THE TRUTHS OF HISTORY

A new book by ultra-orthodox Rabbi Nathan Kamenetsky, entitled
"The  Making of a Godol [Great Man]" has been banned by other
ultra-orthodox rabbis, who have burned copies of the book and
defamed its author for his respectful but unvarnished
description of leading figures in the early 20th century
orthodox Jewish world.  See this account in the March 14
Forward:

http://www.forward.com/issues/2003/03.03.14/arts1.html

This is more than just a tiresome sectarian squabble.  It is
part of a fascinating confrontation with history that has
wracked orthodox Jewry in recent years, raising profound
questions about "the uses and disadvantages of history for
life."

In ultra-orthodox circles, history is not a matter of books and
conferences.  It is an existential challenge that can keep you
up at night, and drive you to extremes.  The unfolding conflict
has divided the community between those who insist that history
must be contained within the boundaries of hagiography so as to
edify its readers and those, like R. Kamenetsky, who contend
that "truth is the seal of God."

Central features of the dispute were sensitively described by
Rabbi Jacob J. Schacter in "Facing the Truths of History," Torah
U-Madda Journal, published by Yeshiva University, Volume 8,
1998-1999, pp. 200-276.

Orthodox Jewish historiography can be a hoot.  Analysis of one
early twentieth century orthodox "history" volume revealed that
its author had lifted the fictional plot and characters of an
1898 short story by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, entitled "The Jew's
Breastplate," and incorporated them in his purportedly non-
fictional text.  An astonishing account of this imaginative
excursion is presented in "The Adventure of the Maharal of
Prague in London" by Prof. Shnayer Z. Leiman, Tradition,
published by the Rabbinical Council of America, vol. 36, no. 1,
spring 2002, pp. 26-58.


_______________________________________________

Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.


OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood@fas.org
voice:  (202) 454-4691







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   Mar > Mar 20

                    Interior's Ig Becomes Part Of Problem

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net>
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 13:05:17 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 15:41:07 -0500
Subject: Interior's Ig Becomes Part Of Problem


Interior's IG Becomes Part of the Problem

"When it comes to citizens' information-access, federal agencies
have no authority -- moral or legal -- to indulge in
gamesmanship." -- Larry W. Bryant (March 20, 2003)

[LWB Note: When I snail-mailed a hard copy of my e-formatted
letter of March 7, 2003, to the general counsel of the U. S.
Department of the Interior in Washington, the unopened envelope
boomeranged to my home address several days later. Someone
totally had blacked out the addressee's title (General Counsel)
and replaced it with the rubber-stamped words "Return to Sender
- Not at this Address."

The letter (which now occupies a new envelope en route to the
DOI secretary via certified mail) seeks the overruling of DOI
official William W. Wolf's rejection of my appeal of the
unwarranted (and covert) partial denial of my Roswell-related
FOIA request processed a few months ago by the FOIA managers at
the Bureau of Land Management.

Whoever in the DOI general counsel's office chose to sidetrack
my March 7 request for reinstatement of my appeal has at the
same time ignored the legal requirement contained in the last
paragraph of that letter, to wit: "(2) Process this numbered
subparagraph as a new, supplementary FOIA request - viz., for a
copy of the entire contents to date of the BLM-maintained case
file on my original request and subsequent appeal. Armed with
that information, I can proceed with presenting my case fully to
appropriate congressional bodies: that your department's FOIA-
  request processing system has at least one serious,
unacceptable flaw that can be resolved, in part, by
congressional intervention."

Likewise, the following response from the DOI inspector general
(to whom I'd CC-ed a copy of my March 7 letter) indicates that
no-one in that office really has bothered to comprehend either
(a) the BLM impropriety cited by my March 7 letter or (b) the
legal requirement to comply with the letter's subparagraph No.
(2).

Do you get the feeling, now, that these DOI gatekeepers of
public-information access are "protesting too much" about the
(in)adequacy of their "well-established administrative
procedures"? Beyond that gamesmanship, what about the inspector
general's dereliction of his statutory duty to investigate (and
help remedy) ANY form of official impropriety (including an
agency's wanton failure to comply with "well-established" LAW)?]

-----

TO: Larry W. Bryant

FROM: Office of the Inspector General, Department of the Interior

DATE: March 13, 2003

Dear Mr. Bryant:

This is in response to your memorandum dated March 8, 2003
concerning your "rejected FOIA appeal."

Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) requests are processed
according to well-established administrative procedures. The
Departmental FOIA Appeals Officer indicated to you that your
appeal was untimely and referred your February 10, 2003, letter
with attachments to the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) FOIA
Officer to be treated as a new FOIA request and to consider the
issues you raised in your appeal.

The Office of Inspector General does not have jurisdiction over
the administrative FOIA procedures. The FOIA Officer for BLM
should advise you of your administrative rights in any response
they provide. The Office of Inspector General cannot serve as a
substitute for these well-established administrative procedures.


Sincerely,


Sandra L. Evans
Freedom of Information Act Officer







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   Mar > Mar 21

                Re: 'Prophet' Opens Theme Park For Our Alien

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 12:53:49 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 07:26:03 -0500
Subject: Re: 'Prophet' Opens Theme Park For Our Alien


 >From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 20:06:44 +0100
 >Subject: Re: 'Prophet' Opens Theme Park For Our Alien Heritage

 >...
 >This post is informative but disgusting. As if Eric von D had
 >not done a great disservice by putting out his slop through
 >books, talks, and TV. Now we have this crackpot theme park
 >coming to life.

 >I wonder if it will have a Billy Meier area with a robot of him
 >and Semjase who will be "prophesizing"? Will there be a Raelian
 >cloned mutual masturbation religious area? I would not be
 >surprised if there is an area where E Von D claims that the
 >aliens had originally designed the World Trade Center.

Josh,

You need to do some homework before including Billy Meier in
this group. Or, at the least, don't just accept the stuff that
Kal Korff put out, and others have unthinkingly gone along with,
as having any veracity. If you understand anything about
photography, or the value of witnesses' support, you can learn
of the many reasons why the Meier case can be no hoax, by
viewing my website at:

http://www.tjresearch.info/ufology.htm  with its links;

The wedding-cake UFO photos are now included here.

And for the many witnesses' statements of support, see:

http://www.tjresearch.info/witness.htm
http://www.tjresearch.info/witnessa.htm


Jim Deardorff










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   Mar > Mar 21

                A Question About Columbia's 'Mystery Object'

From: Chaz Stuart <Daydisk2@webtv.net>
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 22:09:38 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 07:28:47 -0500
Subject: A Question About Columbia's 'Mystery Object'


Hello Everyone,

Something has puzzled me for a couple of weeks now. Perhaps
someone out there can give me an answer since it must be obvious
(to everyone except me) because no one else has asked the
question.

NASA announced some time ago that a small (1-3') object was
detected by radar moving along with the shuttle the second day
in orbit. It gradually moved away from the Columbia at about 15
mph and then, two days later, "nosedived" into the atmosphere
(www.space.com) and burned up. It is assumed by most that the
object was in fact a piece of the shuttle that had broken away
due to damage encountered during the launch or because of a
collision with space junk or even a meteor. A waste water dump
was also posited as a possibility.

My question is the following: Why would the object enter the
Earth's atmosphere so quickly when it had the same velocity and
orbit as the shuttle? As I understand it, the shuttles use their
thrusters and retros merely to maneuver into different positions
and not to stay in orbit. In fact, on at least one occasion, I
recall a shuttle crew releasing a satellite from the cargo bay.
I don't think it's orbit decayed two days later!

Perhaps someone can give me a simple answer to this simple
question?

--Chaz







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   Mar > Mar 21

                 Re: New Bentwaters Documentary - Stevenson

From: Colin Stevenson <colin@c2k2.fsworld.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 05:36:04 -0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 07:31:20 -0500
Subject: Re: New Bentwaters Documentary - Stevenson


 >From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 21:43:18 -0000
 >Subject: Re: New Bentwaters Documentary

 >>From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 02:55:20 -0000
 >>Subject: Re: New Bentwaters Documentary

 >>>From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk>
 >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 21:42:32 -0000
 >>>Subject: New Bentwaters Documentary

 ><snip>

 >>You will see from my comments in the appended post that I
 >>remarked that you made no mention of the radiation readings at
 >>Rendlesham. Was this due to editorial omission, or have you
 >>changed your view on the importance of the radiation readings?

 >I have not altered my belief that the radiation readings taken
 >are extremely important. There are, as you will be aware,
 >debates over whether the readings were recorded accurately, and
 >over the suitability of the equipment used to take the readings.
 >But any investigation of this aspect of the case must start with
 >the data actually provided, and not subjective analyses of these
 >data. Bear in mind also that the initial advice we received from
 >specialists in the Defence Intelligence Staff was that Halt's
 >reading of 0.1 milliroentgens "seems significantly higher than
 >the average background of about 0.015 mr". This assessment is
 >recorded in a document dated 23 February 1981, which is on the
 >MOD website, and is the eighth document in the link below:

 >http://www.mod.uk/linked_files/publications/foi/ufo/ufofilepart1.pdf

 >Later on in the MOD file is a note (dated 15 April 1994) of a
 >conversation that I had with Giles Cowling from the Defence
 >Radiological Protection Service, following my re-opening of the
 >MOD's investigation into this incident. His view on Halt's data
 >was that the peak reading was ten times background levels.

 >Halt's original readings and the two official MOD analyses of
 >these readings are still vitally important. That said, the case
 >does not stand or fall on the radiation data alone. The
 >radiation readings must be considered alongside the witness
 >testimonies, the radar data, and other aspects of this
 >intriguing case.


Hello Nick and all

The most objectional thing about this programme on BBC3 is that
it replaced the final episode of 'Taken' which I was looking
forward to watching which was usually after the preceeding
episode on BBC2.

Yes. I was angry indeed at the choice of the BBC programmers and
even angrier that the programme was somewhat (an understatement)
deficient in all respects.

My temper also rose at seeing footage of the base bearing in
mind our present War stance and possibility of the base being a
terrorist target.

The BBC ought to know better than continue upsetting Sci Fi fans
as they do and did.

Don't think that my TV license will be renewed when due.


Kind wishes

Colin







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   Mar > Mar 21

                     Re: UN Petition Update - Stevenson

From: Colin Stevenson <colin@c2k2.fsworld.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 06:07:11 -0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 07:36:18 -0500
Subject: Re: UN Petition Update - Stevenson


 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 17:46:24 -0500
 >Subject: UN Petition Update

 >The UN Petition signature count stands at 2671 after one year
 >on-line. I think I'd feel prouder of the number if it was
 >exclusively an "American" effort, but it's not. For a campaign
 >that is supposed to be 'International,' twenty-six hundred
 >signatures, after a full year of soliciting support for the
 >effort, just isn't very impressive.

 >Therefore... I am going to extend the time frame for gathering
 >signatures another year. I am hoping that we can do 'better' if
 >we just give it some more time. It also happens to be a 'bad
 >time' to submit such a petition given the current world
 >political climate.

 >We need help getting the number of signatures up. Banners on
 >websites with active links to the petition, word of mouth, any
 >and all forms of 'spreading the word' are needed to make the
 >petition an attention grabber when it is finally submitted.

 >Again, please... help to spread the word in any way you can.
 >This isn't the kind of thing that anyone can pull off alone. But
 >together, we can make miracles happen.

 >Sign the International Petition for UFO information disclosure.
 >Tell everyone you know about it. If you maintain a UFO related
 >website, post a banner with an active link to the petition in a
 >prominent place on your webpages. Get involved. Participate.
 >Make your voices heard.

 >http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition


Hi John and all UFO webmasters

If all webmasters could link direct to your banner and use it
simply on our websites then things would be much easier and you
might get more folk giving links to you, thus more folk signing
the petition.

The amount of work a webmaster does is increased by a lack of
direct link banner thus we have to graphic our own for you which
is unecceptable.

can you open the .jpg link

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition/images/petpghdr.jpg

so we can use it please and present your banner on our websites
easily


Regards

Colin







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   Mar > Mar 21

                          "Aztec UFO Crash A Scam"

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 07:53:01 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 07:53:01 -0500
Subject: "Aztec UFO Crash A Scam"

http://www.daily-times.com/Stories/0,1413,129%257E6572%257E1254056,00.html

Wednesday, March 19, 2003

Opponents: UFO crash a 'scam'
By Debra Mayeux/The Daily Times

AZTEC A hoax, a scam developed by two con men. That is what most
in the scientific community think about an alleged UFO crash in
Hart Canyon north of Aztec.

A discussion on this crash and others will be the topic of the
annual UFO Symposium March 21-23 at the Aztec Civic Center.

The UFO containing two or more alien bodies, burnt beyond
recognition, crashed in the canyon northeast of Aztec in March
1948. The story is it was struck by radar from one of the
military's top secret installations in the southwest mountains.
The microwave beam forced the spacecraft out of the sky and
caused it to impact the earth.

Some believe the story saying the crash was successfully covered
up by the government. Others mainly scientists say the story was
an elaborate tale created by two con men, Silas Newton and
Edward GeBauer. The men lacked credibility and wanted to sell a
doodle bug machine with extraterrestrial technology to the oil
companies in the region.

This is the story former CIA operative Karl Pflock tells when
asked about Aztec.

"I have been fortunate enough to take a look at a hand-written
journal some 20 pages written by Silas Newton. In it he says the
entire thing was a hoax to get their doodle bug (project) off
the ground," Pflock said.

Also in the diary was a section, where Newton claimed to have
been approached by government agents, who asked him to continue
to spread the myth as real because it was his "patriotic duty to
help keep the smoke screen up of a real recovery of a saucer,"
Pflock said.

Pflock contributes his lack of belief in the Aztec story to the
Newton journal and to the fact that there were no newspaper
accounts of the actual crash. There is also a "complete absence
of physical evidence. There is nothing about anything of a crash
in Aztec," he said.

Pflock thinks the story may have been dreamed up after a real
fireball was spotted on Oct. 30, 1947, in the Four Corners area.
It actually crashed somewhere on the Navajo Reservation.

"GeBauer was out in the Aztec area during that time," Pflock
said.

Pflock will speak from 9:30-11 a.m. Saturday. His topic is
titled "Attacked by a flying saucer," and it is the story of an
alleged UFO sighting in Florida.

The saucer was seen by a scout master on the night of Aug. 15,
1952. "He went out in the woods and saw a hovering saucer,"
Pflock said adding the man was shot with a plasma ray.

"This has long been considered a hoax, but I don't think it is,"
he said. "There's some very interesting physical evidence which
could not have been fake."

He will make a comparison as to how this sighting is similar to
Aztec.

"This is a case that like Aztec has long been considered a
hoax," he said.

Regardless of his reservations about Aztec, Pflock has continued
to look at the incident with an open mind. He has done some of
his own research which has not been conclusive.

The researcher has even gone so far as to dig up old newspaper
articles relating to the alleged crash. One was found in the
Oct. 26, 1974, edition of the Tucson Arizona Daily Star, which
reported the saucer crash as being phony.

"Dwight Patton of the Aztec Independent Review said he
interviewed people and came up totally dry on the (saucer
crash). However, Martin Pacheco of Blanco remembered the meteor
of 1947," Pflock said.

"There s nothing in the formerly classified records. It would be
wonderful if there were something we could lay our hands on, but
as far as I'm concerned there's nothing but a lot of fun," he
said.

The fun was in regards to the annual symposium. This will be
Pflock's second year as a guest speaker, and he credits
organizers for developing a solid agenda of informative and fun
activities.

"I was impressed with the quality of the speakers. They have
made a genuine effort to get a wide variety of people with
different points of view," Pflock said. "Roswell is more like a
street carnival."

Pflock will also be available for a question and answer session
during the symposium's meet and greet social event at 6 p.m.
Friday. Tickets for the event at $18 for one or $30 for two.

Tickets for the symposium are $50 for both Saturday and Sunday
or $35 for Saturday and $20 for Sunday.

Information: Aztec Symposium hotline, (505) 334-9890.

Debra Mayeux: debram@daily-times.com


[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]







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   Mar > Mar 21

                              Milky Way Calling

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 07:56:23 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 07:56:23 -0500
Subject: Milky Way Calling

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,542-615596,00.html

March 19, 2003

Milky Way Calling
Are aliens trying to tell us something by radio?

The search for the yeti has taken adventurers high into the
Himalayas in pursuit of giant footprints in the snow; Seti _ the
Search for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence _ is looking for radio
footprints in the cosmos, and has taken scientists through
realms billions of times more remote, alien and mysterious than
anything known to earthlings. And yet, amid the cacophony of
space sounds that have bombarded the Arecibo radio telescope in
Puerto Rico (five billion signals over the past four years),
there are, intriguingly, 150 that defy rational explanation. Are
they indeed cris de coeur from the distant heavens, a desperate
and random attempt to pierce through infinity and end our
planetary isolation? Or are they merely junk radio, the escaping
megahertz from a Martian CB trucker tired of listening to the
interplanetary edition of The Archers?

Whoever first cracks the code of the little green men should not
keep it secret. Seti guidelines insist that he or she
immediately telegram (if this Victorian mode of communication
can be revived) the International Astronomical Union and the
United Nations, which has drawn up a protocol on how nations
should respond to alien conduct (though Jacques Chirac threatens
a veto, regardless of the form of life). It insists that the
globe's radios maintain immediate silence on the relevant
waveband _ which would make any hoax worthwhile if it led to the
muting of our more mindless DJs.

Reaching out to our intergalactic cousins began years ago, with
the dispatch of space vehicles emblazoned with earthly graffiti
_ an anatomically correct depiction of man and woman, in case
original sin was also universal sin. There were a few simple
equations for those gastropods from Jupiter who were good at
algebra, and a "we are here" map of the solar system so that
aliens would know where to rendezvous on the agreed date. But
searching the skies for a response takes a lot more effort and
computing time. Seti, however, has so captured our imagination
that thousands have been enlisted in the quest, and have
heroically made available their spare computing capacity, in the
downtime between the evening search for internet exotica and the
next morning's e-mails. Already an astonishing 1.3 million years
of computing time have been put to the search, which seems a lot
but may be a mere blink of an amoeba's carbon eyelid on a
stellar desert in the Milky Way.

Trekking the stars has become a global obsession, and with luck
astronomers will one day hack into an alien computer
intelligence that is Windows-compatible. But it could take
aeons. Surely the quickest way would be for ET to ring home, and
for us to trace the call.


[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]








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   Mar > Mar 21

                         'UFOs Are Saddam's Secret!'

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 08:17:08 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 08:17:08 -0500
Subject: 'UFOs Are Saddam's Secret!'

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,2346716a4560,00.html

UFOs Are Saddam's Secret - UFO Watchers Claim
21 March 2003
By Martin Davey

President Bush decided to attack Iraq because he was scared
Saddam Hussein would use technology from a crashed alien
spaceship, UFO watchers claim.

But the dictator doesn't want "Dubya" getting his hands on the
space-age technology, says a professed Kiwi UFO expert.

He and his fellow space-case managers say a UFO crashed in Iraq
in 1998.

Top American secret agents have been worried since then that
Iraqi president Saddam would break it down to find out how to
build his own spaceship and weapons, they claim.

Wellington UFO believer Bre said President Bush wouldn't be told
about the spacecraft.

"Normally the president of the USA doesn't have a security
clearance high enough to be in the know about all the Black
Operations projects.

"You have to have MK Ultra clearance, before you are given
access to such things as reverse engineering alien technology,"
Bre said.

George Dubya's father George Bush senior - who was president
during the last Gulf war in 1991 - was a former head of the CIA.

Apparently he told his son.

And somehow Bre - who doesn't have a last name - has found out
about the UFO conspiracy.

"Bush senior was privy to info that he wouldn't normally have
access to," Bre told Truth.

The Americans should be careful in case Saddam already had alien
weapons technology, Bre said.

"I imagine Saddam would delight in knocking the USA's airforce
out of his skies," he said.

He forwarded Truth an email from an American UFO watcher.

She claimed President Clinton almost attacked Iraq in 1998 after
Saddam threw out United Nations weapons inspectors.

But Clinton decided against it at the last minute.

He was scared Saddam already had alien technology, she claimed.


[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]






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   Mar > Mar 21

              Identify UFO Hoaxes - From Real Alien Spacecraft!

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 08:23:29 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 08:23:29 -0500
Subject: Identify UFO Hoaxes - From Real Alien Spacecraft!

http://www.weeklyuniverse.com/2003/voron-2.htm

How You Can Identify UFO Hoaxes - From Real Alien Spacecraft!
by Thomas M. Sipos
L.A. bureau chief
January 1, 2003


[WeeklyUniverse.com]  Real true-life alien spacecraft affect
their surrounding environment - something UFO hoaxers have
difficulty replicating.  That's one of the amazing telltale
signs used by ufologists to verify authentic UFO phenomena
photos - and one of the "insider professional secrets" revealed
by internationally celebrated ufologist Der Voron, author of
Unidentified Flying Objects: Starcraft, as explained to the
Weekly Universe in an astounding and exclusive interview.

Talking exclusively to the Weekly Universe, Voron explains: "The
functioning of starcraft ionic-microwave engines (aka
antigravitation or electromagnetic engines) is accompanied by
electromagnetic field phenomena, i.e. plasma, which can cause
air mass movements."

For instance, Voron says that the UFO photo to the left "seems
to be real" because it captures the "fire ring" of a plasma
drive.

But the plasma created by ionic-microwave engines and energy
generators can also appear as "fog clots," says Voron.

As an example, he offers the startling photo to the right, which
he claims is "another seemingly real UFO photograph."

When analyzing UFO photos, Voron seeks "movement of air masses
around the UFO" - a telltale sign that the photo is no hoax!

When real true-life starships descend, says Voron, "ionic-
microwave streams interact with the environment.  Here [photo,
left] we can see plants to stoop because of such interaction."
  Thus, a real starcraft!

Even more shockingly, starship electromagnetic fields can impact
our environment in still other ways - some of them potentially
deadly!

UFO sightings have been accompanied by dangerous engine failures
in planes, boats, cars - as well as failures in other
mechanical, electronics, communication devices.

Voron offers the following documented true-life examples of
potentially deadly starcraft sightings:

* January 7, 1948.  Captain Thomas Mantell, while chasing a UFO
near Fort Knox, Kentucky in his F-51 Mustang - crashed!

* July 24, 1948.  An Eastern Airlines DC-3, flown by Captain
Clarence S. Chiles over Montgomery, Alabama - almost collided
into a UFO!

* November 23, 1953.  Lt. Felix Moncla, piloting an F-89C
Interceptor, was chasing a UFO over Lake Superior - and
disappeared!  No trace of the F-89C - or of Felix Moncla - was
ever found!

* October 21, 1978.  Civilian pilot Frederick Valentich, while
flying a single engine Cessna over the Bass Straits between
Australia and King Island, radioed to ground control in
Melbourne, to report he was being followed by a UFO!  Those
radio conversations were the last words of Valentich - both
pilot and Cessna vanished!

Voron is quick to add that not all starcraft encounters turn
deadly - but as all true-life starcraft impact the environment
in some way, the editorial board of Weekly Universe warns its
huge family of readers:

Keep watching the skies - but use caution!


Der Voron may be contacted at: der-voron@linkeseite.zzn.com
His website is: http://starcraft-version1.tripod.com


Copyright 2003 by WeeklyUniverse.com








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   Mar > Mar 21

                       Brazil's EBE-ET Address Change

From: Thiago Luiz Ticchetti <thiagolt@opengate.com.br>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 10:18:02 -0300
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 08:35:27 -0500
Subject: Brazil's EBE-ET Address Change


Hello List,

Please, update the EBE-ET address:

SHCGN 706, Bloco N casa 30.
ASA NORTE
Brasilia/DF
Brazil
ZIP Code: 70740714

tel (+55) 61 272-2703

Thiago Luiz Ticchetti
Vice-presidente da EBE-ET/RAB
Brasilia/DF
Brasil







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                    Re: New Bentwaters Documentary - Pope

From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 13:31:57 -0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 08:50:44 -0500
Subject: Re: New Bentwaters Documentary - Pope


 >From: Colin Stevenson <colin@c2k2.fsworld.co.uk>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 05:36:04 -0000
 >Subject: Re: New Bentwaters Documentary

 >Hello Nick and all

 >The most objectional thing about this programme on BBC3 is that
 >it replaced the final episode of 'Taken' which I was looking
 >forward to watching which was usually after the preceeding
 >episode on BBC2.

<snip>

Colin and List,

I don't think Mentorn can be blamed for this, because the BBC
had always planned that the final episode of 'Taken' would be
simulcast (i.e. simultaneously broadcast) on BBC 2 and BBC 3, on
Saturday 22 March. This is quite a common practice.

As you may know, BBC 3's first theme night is due to take place
on Saturday evening. This starts at 8pm with a repeat showing of
the Mentorn documentary on the Bentwaters incident. The final
episode of 'Taken' will be shown at 9pm. At 10.25pm a programme
called 'Pure Taken' will be shown. This is a live show which
will feature interviews with cast members, together with emails,
texts and calls from fans. I'll be one of three studio guests
discussing the show. At 11.25pm there will be a repeat showing
of the episode of 'Louis Theroux's Weird Weekends' that deals
with US Ufology. Finally, at 12.15am a documentary entitled
'Inside Taken' will be shown.

And don't forget that the feature-length finale of The X-Files
will be shown on BBC 2 on Sunday March 23, from 10.45pm to
12.10am. Enjoy!


Best wishes,

Nick Pope








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   Mar > Mar 21

                       Re: UN Petition Update - Hayes

From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 08:47:09 -0600
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 09:47:05 -0500
Subject: Re: UN Petition Update - Hayes


 >From: Colin Stevenson <colin@c2k2.fsworld.co.uk>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 06:07:11 -0000
 >Subject: Re: UN Petition Update

<snip>


 >Hi John and all UFO webmasters

 >If all webmasters could link direct to your banner and
 >use it simply on our websites then things would be much
 >easier and you might get more folk giving links to you,
 >thus more folk signing the petition.

 >The amount of work a webmaster does is increased by a
 >lack of direct link banner thus we have to graphic our
 >own for you which is unecceptable.

 >can you open the .jpg link

 >http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition/images/petpghdr.jpg

 >so we can use it please and present your banner on our
 >websites easily


Hi Colin and all Webmasters,

If John was to do that he could end up with a bandwidth problem
if too many people link to the graphic, I've had this problem in
the past.

Personally I do not think it takes much time to save a copy of
the graphic and put a link on the site, as John probably knows
I've had 3 links up since just after the petition was announced.

Should say that if this sounds like criticism it's not, just my
personal thoughts.....


Best wishes,

John Hayes

http://www.ufoinfo.com








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   Mar > Mar 21

              Re: UFO UpDate: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 12 -

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 12:06:45 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 14:12:48 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 12 -


 >From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 14:43:16 +0000
 >Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 12


 >Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor.

 ><Masinaigan@aol.com>
==========================

 >UFO ROUNDUP
 >Volume 8, Number 12
 >March 19, 2003
 >Editor: Joseph Trainor

<snip>

 >ASTRONOMER LEADS FIGHT
 >AGAINST MOON HOAX
 >CONSPIRACY THEORISTS

 >"Phil Plait, 38-year-old astronomer and skeptic, was
 >on the California State University, Northridge campus
 >Friday," March 14, 2003, "punching holes in the tenacious
 >myth that American astronauts never landed on the moon."
"Given the crowd, Plait didn't have much persuading

<snip>

 >"Look at the American flag supposedly being planted
 >on the moon, the moon hoaxers say.  If the astronauts were
 >really on the moon, which has no atmosphere, why is the
 >flag waving?"
 >"Plait explains that the astronauts caused the flag
 >to move as they drilled the flagpole into the surface of
 >the moon; inertia creates the apparent waving motion."
 >(Editor's Comment: Which leaves the intriguing question of
 >why the wave motion stopped after several minutes,
 >especially when no counter-force was applied by the
 >astronauts to halt the inertia of the original motion.)

One may logically assume that the motion of the flag stopped
because of friction within the flag material itself.  Flag
"waving" requires repeated bending of the fibers that make up
the flag.  It takes force to bend a material.  The work done on
bending is converted by internal friction (friction within the
fiber material) to heat.  Thus the mechanical energy of the
motion of the fiber (flag waving) is dissipated by the
friction and the flag stops waving.

<snip>

 >From the UFO Files...

 >2003: THE ALIENS AND THE
 >SHUTTLE COLUMBIA

 >By Der Voron

 >"The crash of the space shuttle Columbia occurred on
 >February 1, 2003.  Soon, many versions were offered to
 >explain it.  Here we would like to propose an explanation
 >for this crash.  Let us analyze all the facts."

<snip>

 >"So, actually, there may be two explanations for
 >Columbia's crash."
 >"(I)  Hot air friction sparked a fire in the damaged
 >(unprotected--D.V.) area while Columbia was descending at
 >a speed of about 3.8 miles per second.  The fire burnt
t>hrough the unprotected area and then reached the internal
 >areas of the shuttle, its engines and fuel tanks."

 >"The problem with this scenario is that it could
 >easily have occurred during the shuttle's takeoff, when
 >its speed and air friction were approximately the same as
 >when landing, and when the shuttle had much more fuel than
 >during landing."

No.

It is true that the shuttle reached a very high speed as it
approached orbit, but while it was in the sensible (lower)
atmosphere where burnup could take place it was still
accelerating and it was not traveling at orbital speed. By the
time it achieved full speed it was well out of the atmosphere.


 >"(II)  It was shot down by extraterrestrials.  Maybe
 >they didn't use any weapons to crash it, but simply
 >approached in their craft, causing Columbia's electronics
 >and engines to fail because of the effect of the alien
 >starcraft's electromagnetic field.  It also may be that an
 >alien craft had approached the Columbia without any
 >malicious intent, but that its electromagnetic field
 >effects on Columbia's electronics and engines was
 >unforeseen by the aliens."

 >"This, however, doesn't explain why the shuttle
 >exploded in the air, instead of merely plummeting to
 >Earth.

If the electronic controls were shut down the shuttle would not
be able to maintain the correct "attack angle" as it entered the
atmosphere.  This angle is designed to let the special heat
tiles take the "beating" of the atmosphere.  Under these
conditions of no control even an an undamaged shuttle would
start to wobble and eventually turn broadside into the
atmosphere, then break apart and burn up.

 >Thus, the more likely scenario is that the
 >Columbia was show down by the alien craft."

 >"If so, the question arises--what did the aliens wish
 >to show mankind by their actions?  Possibly that chemical-
 >based engines (which are used even by such advanced craft
 >as space shuttles--D.V.) have about reached their peak
 >effectiveness and reliability--and it is time to develop
 >and actively use more reliable engines."

 >"Today's weapons and missiles, which are much less
 >effective than ray and/or laser weapons, have
 >approximately the same condition."


The logic, if any, in this escapes me.








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   Mar > Mar 22

               FOIA Request To Industrial College Armed Forces

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 13:43:20 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 02:59:47 -0500
Subject: FOIA Request To Industrial College Armed Forces


To: mashburnNH@ndu.edu


TO:   Maj. Gen. Harold Mashburn, Jr., USMC
       Commandant, Industrial College of the Armed Forces
       National Defense University
       Fort Lesley J. McNair
       Washington, DC 20319

FROM: Larry W. Bryant
       3518 Martha Custis Drive
       Alexandria, VA 22302

DATE: March 21, 2003

Referring to the below-quoted item from the March 14, 2003,
Washington Post's column "In the Loop," I hereby submit this
letter as a formal, written freedom-of-information request that
you send me a copy of all ICAF/NDU-generated and all ICAF/NDU-
  received records pertaining to the subject matter of the item
in question -- said records to include the following:

Intradepartmental/agency and interdepartmental/agency
correspondence (including all e-mail messages from/to ICAF-NDU
faculty/administration); congressional-inquiry tasking
documents; minutes of (and notes taken from) all related
meetings of the Deans Council and the University Council;
memoranda of telephone conversations; faxed documents; document-
  transmittal slips; memoranda for record; interview transcripts;
curriculum-development plans; faculty-development proposals;
briefing-paper "talking points" and charts; legal opinions;
policy statements; personnel-counseling reports; administrative
notices; and responses to news-media inquiries/contacts.

Since I make this request (1) on behalf of the public's interest
in knowing how your agency responds to and abides by concerns
about "academic freedom" and First Amendment-protected
expression of dissent among your studentry, faculty, and
administration; and (2) as a First Amendment scholar focusing on
public employees' free-speech issues and protections, I ask that
you waive all records-search fees incident to your fulfilling
it.

Here's the text of the "In the Loop" item:

"Academic Freedom Is, Uh, Academic

"Meanwhile, that blast of the Mother of All Bombs in Florida on
Tuesday wasn't the only big military explosion this week.
Another came when an e-mail from Maj. Gen. Harold Mashburn Jr.,
commandant of the Industrial College of the Armed Forces, hit
the computers of staff and faculty at the National Defense
University at Fort McNair.

"Seems the academic affairs unit, headed by school vice
president James Keagle, was putting together its agenda for the
weekly deans meeting. Item 8 was to be 'academic freedom
discussed in the context of how to raise sensitive issues and/or
manage the discussion of same,' Keagle's e-mail said. NDU's
students and faculty are a mix of military and civilians from
the intelligence and diplomatic communities.

"'Jim,' Mashburn replied, 'as far as I know, no one in the
Executive Branch may make negative remarks about the Commander
in Chief or his decisions -- public remarks, does not mean the
academic environment of the seminars/committees. I think all
here are paid by that branch. Academic freedom does not apply.
Enough said.'

"Some recipients went ballistic. Mashburn clarified yesterday in
an interview that at the closed-door, 'non-attributed' seminars,
free-wheeling discussion, even of the negative variety, was
fine, but not in public. 'We can't have dual standards of
academic freedom,' he said, one for civilians and one for the
military.

"This is a military base, he said, and the military standard is
Article 88 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, which he
read to us: 'Contempt toward officials. Any commissioned officer
who uses contemptuous words against the president, the vice
president, Congress, the secretary of defense, the secretary of
a military department, the secretary of transportation, or the
governor or legislature of any state, territory, commonwealth,
or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be
punished as a court-martial may direct.'

"So that's the standard to be followed. Bad-mouth Defense
Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld or Transportation Secretary Norman
Y. Mineta or the D.C. Council or even much-maligned California
Gov. Gray Davis (D) and it could be a long time in the brig."

Please note, General, that I'm snail-mailing to you a signed
printout of this e-formatted letter.


LARRY W. BRYANT

Copies furnished to:

Mark S. Zaid, Esq. (Washington, D.C.)

Chairman, Subcommittee on Government Information, Management, and
Technology -- U. S. House of Representatives

Chairman, U. S. Senate Committee on the Judiciary

Chairman, U. S. Senate Committee on Government Operations







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                Re: 'Prophet' Opens Theme Park For Our Alien

From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 00:45:25 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 03:06:01 -0500
Subject: Re: 'Prophet' Opens Theme Park For Our Alien


 >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 12:53:49 -0800
 >Subject: Re: 'Prophet' Opens Theme Park For Our Alien Heritage

 >>From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 20:06:44 +0100
 >>Subject: Re: 'Prophet' Opens Theme Park For Our Alien Heritage

 >>...

 >>This post is informative but disgusting. As if Eric von D had
 >>not done a great disservice by putting out his slop through
 >>books, talks, and TV. Now we have this crackpot theme park
 >>coming to life.

 >>I wonder if it will have a Billy Meier area with a robot of him
 >>and Semjase who will be "prophesizing"? Will there be a Raelian
 >>cloned mutual masturbation religious area? I would not be
 >>surprised if there is an area where E Von D claims that the
 >>aliens had originally designed the World Trade Center.

 >You need to do some homework before including Billy Meier in
 >this group. Or, at the least, don't just accept the stuff that
 >Kal Korff put out, and others have unthinkingly gone along with,
 >as having any veracity. If you understand anything about
 >photography, or the value of witnesses' support, you can learn
 >of the many reasons why the Meier case can be no hoax, by
 >viewing my website at:

 >http://www.tjresearch.info/ufology.htm  with its links;

 >The wedding-cake UFO photos are now included here.

 >And for the many witnesses' statements of support, see:

 >http://www.tjresearch.info/witness.htm
 >http://www.tjresearch.info/witnessa.htm


Hi Jim,

I was just being humorous in my own smarmy way. I hope still
have a sense of humor. I guess it would be better for each
person I mentioned to have his own theme park in whatever ways
are chosen.

I must admit I have not looked at your website for a while. I
don't have the time right now. Plus, the religious parts are not
of great interest to me since I don't believe in _any_ religions
or gospels.

As for being influenced by Kal Korff, I had gained my sense of
this case long before he came along. I remember when it first
became known in California, I remember Wendelle Stevens' early
stuff came out about Billy. I bought the first pressing of the
Contact book. I thought the photos and stories quite
interesting, but I always asked:

"I wonder if this is real".

In the early 1980s I hired Will Mangin, a video editor, to work
on a music video. He told me that not long before then he had
worked on editing the original Contact video. If I remember
correctly that was done at Sky Crosby's ranch. Will was a friend
of Wendelle Stevens and I don't remember if Jim Dilettoso was
involved.

Later on I went to a few Billy Meier group meetings in
California, went to UFO meetings, conferences and conventions
where I used to see Guido Moosebugger speak. I probably even met
you and heard you speak about the case. I used to see Michael
Hesseman and listen to him speak about the case. A German woman
I am friends with used to be Michael Hesseman's girlfriend here
in Deutschland. I have not seen him for five years or so.
Otherwise I've followed this case through the UFO community for
many years.

Jim, I have my own feelings about this case over many years but
I don't want to get into this now. I don't want that Pandora's
box to open up here again. We've discussed this case intensively
on this List. People can check the archives if they so
desire. This case has been one of the biggest rows in the UFO
world for a very long time. It probably has been a row of more
print and duration than even Gulf Breeze or Rendlesham.


Happy trails,

Josh









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   Mar > Mar 22

                Re: 'Prophet' Opens Theme Park For Our Alien

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@charter.net>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 20:47:10 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 03:09:54 -0500
Subject: Re: 'Prophet' Opens Theme Park For Our Alien


 >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 12:53:49 -0800
 >Subject: Re: 'Prophet' Opens Theme Park For Our Alien Heritage

 >>From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 20:06:44 +0100
 >>Subject: Re: 'Prophet' Opens Theme Park For Our Alien Heritage

 >>This post is informative but disgusting. As if Eric von D had
 >>not done a great disservice by putting out his slop through
 >>books, talks, and TV. Now we have this crackpot theme park
 >>coming to life.

 >>I wonder if it will have a Billy Meier area with a robot of him
 >>and Semjase who will be "prophesizing"? Will there be a Raelian
 >>cloned mutual masturbation religious area? I would not be
 >>surprised if there is an area where E Von D claims that the
 >>aliens had originally designed the World Trade Center.

 >You need to do some homework before including Billy Meier in
 >this group. Or, at the least, don't just accept the stuff that
 >Kal Korff put out, and others have unthinkingly gone along with,
 >as having any veracity. If you understand anything about
 >photography, or the value of witnesses' support, you can learn
 >of the many reasons why the Meier case can be no hoax, by
 >viewing my website at:

 >http://www.tjresearch.info/ufology.htm  with its links;

 >The wedding-cake UFO photos are now included here.

 >And for the many witnesses' statements of support, see:

 >http://www.tjresearch.info/witness.htm
 >http://www.tjresearch.info/witnessa.htm

Hello, all Josh, Jim.

I have a question. if all of Meier's photos of what (to me)
appear to be well represented models of UFOs, I wonder, why, if
they are so large, as in the 'wedding cake' and the famous 'tree
& beamship' photos, why are the subject's perspective, ah,
questionable?

Here is an example of a known object in a known place:

http://www.butleraircraft.com/11b.html

this was in 1995 at Round Lake, near Klamath Falls, Oregon.
I was Co-pilot on that aircraft. It is a DC-7, 117ft, 6in wingspan,
108 ft, 6in length. Note the clarity of the Moble Homes, Firefighters,
Trees, smoke and the Aircraft. Note how everthing is in perspective.


Just asking,

GT McCoy









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   Mar > Mar 22

                         UFO Site Infects Computer?

From: Larry Hatch <larry@LARRYHATCH.NET>
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 04:18:39 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 07:42:34 -0500
Subject: UFO Site Infects Computer?


UFO site infects computer: sucks in 50 spams per day

Hello all:

I don't know if this is a moron or a put-on.

I got the email below about 36 hours ago. I responded, but
nothing new has come in yet.

Did anybody else get a message like this? "JimJan" apparently
wrote in because of my website.

I never heard of a UFO site infecting a computer before, much
less one that attracts SPAM at such a rate.


Best wishes

- Larry

= = = =


 >Subj: Serious.....it's to 'over seas'
 >Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 14:16:57 -0800
 >From: "JimJan" [address deleted -LH]
 >To:    <larry@larryhatch.net>

 >Mr  Hatch:

 >My  name is Jim Beirl and I do hope you can help me out of
 >this problem.  Somehow ----  by someone ---- this  "UFO"
 >Site was downloaded on to this computer.  I can not find out
 >HOW the mail can be terminated.  We get some 50 letters per day.
 >We are on our way to Japan and 3 weeks of letters is just way
 >beyond our means of deletion.   ANY  HELP?
 >Thank  you   Mr.  Hatch.

 >jim beirl  [address deleted again -LH]






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                Re: 'Prophet' Opens Theme Park For Our Alien

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 10:50:25 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 15:29:26 -0500
Subject: Re: 'Prophet' Opens Theme Park For Our Alien


 >From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@charter.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 20:47:10 -0800
 >Subject: Re: 'Prophet' Opens Theme Park For Our Alien Heritage

 >>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 12:53:49 -0800
 >>Subject: Re: 'Prophet' Opens Theme Park For Our Alien Heritage

 >>The wedding-cake UFO photos are now included here.

 >I have a question. if all of Meier's photos of what (to me)
 >appear to be well represented models of UFOs, I wonder, why, if
 >they are so large, as in the 'wedding cake' and the famous 'tree
 >& beamship' photos, why are the subject's perspective, ah,
 >questionable?

Hello GT,

Some of the perspectives can become 'questionable' if one's mind
is already programmed with the would-be debunker's thought
'Don't bother me with the facts, my mind is made up.' But
consider that first photo showing one of the wedding-cake UFOs
up close, at

http://www.tjresearch.info/Wedcake.htm

which is also shown in the FIGU website of Switzerland, and in
Vol. 2 of Lee & Brit Elders' pictorial book. It's perspective
there hasn't been discussed on this list previously.

In that photo the UFO occupies some 60% of the width of the
frame. The features on its front-facing side are obviously way
out of focus, while its rear edge is in very good focus - just
as good as that of the van in the near background. Depth-of-
  field considerations then require the craft to have been large.
The reasons, and arithmetic, as to why a small model wouldn't
work in this case are given in the above website file. (A camera
that's focussed on a model some 7 ft away will not yield good
focus to an object (van) some 75 ft away.) By 1981 Meier had
replaced his camera of 1975-76, whose focus adjustment and view
finder were broken, with a Ricoh Singlex TLS camera in operable
condition.

The photos of the beamship posing on all sides of the tree that
later vanished have been discussed on this list before. At:

http://www.tjresearch.info/moretree.htm

the claims of Korff are all refuted, and reasons why the tree
was no model or 'baby' tree are given. Here the would-be
debunker ignores the proper perspectives of the photo and
assumes that no alien/ET would ever utilize its advanced
knowledge and technology to cause a mature tree to disappear, or
would be wise enough to implement a strategy involving plausible
deniability. He also ignores the report from witnesses who saw
the tree afterwards in a dying condition before it vanished.

 >Here is an example of a known object in a known place:

 >http://www.butleraircraft.com/11b.html

 >this was in 1995 at Round Lake, near Klamath Falls, Oregon.
 >I was Co-pilot on that aircraft. It is a DC-7, 117ft, 6in wingspan,
 >108 ft, 6in length. Note the clarity of the Moble Homes, Firefighters,
 >Trees, smoke and the Aircraft. Note how everthing is in perspective.

Just as in any photo. If you find anything wrong with the
'perspective' in any of Meier's photos, it ought to be OK to
mention it and discuss it on this list.

In your photo of the aircraft and its effluent, you might wish
to check out its depth of field (in which objects are all in
'reasonably' good focus) and notice if any object lies too close
to the camera to be within that region of good focus.


Jim Deardorff







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   Mar > Mar 22

                Re: 'Prophet' Opens Theme Park For Our Alien

From: Tom Bowden <tomrbowden@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 11:30:36 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 15:31:41 -0500
Subject: Re: 'Prophet' Opens Theme Park For Our Alien


 >From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@charter.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 20:47:10 -0800
 >Subject: Re: 'Prophet' Opens Theme Park For Our Alien Heritage

<snip>

 >I have a question. if all of Meier's photos of what
 >(to me) appear to be well represented models of
 >UFOs, I wonder, why, if  they are so large, as in
 >the 'wedding cake' and the famous 'tree & beamship'
 >photos, why are the subject's perspective, ah,
 >questionable?

 >Here is an example of a known object in a known
 >place:

 >http://www.butleraircraft.com/11b.html

 >this was in 1995 at Round Lake, near Klamath Falls,
 >Oregon. I was Co-pilot on that aircraft. It is a
 >DC-7, 117ft, 6in wingspan, 108 ft, 6in length.
 >Note the clarity of the Moble Homes, Firefighters,
 >Trees, smoke and the Aircraft. Note how everthing is
 >in perspective.


GT,

I am responding only about the photographic question. You cannot
draw valid conclusions by comparing this photo with the Billy
Meier photos unless you also compare the data about the camera,
the exposure settings, the lens, the film, and the available
light. Such information is essential in analyzing photographs of
UFOs, whether to validate them or prove them to be a hoax.

The photo you offered shows a scene in broad daylight with
people and buildings in the middle/foreground, all in focus and
not blurred by motion, while in the background the aircraft and
the falling load of borate are also shown in focus and not
noticeably blurred by motion. This indicates a fast shutter
speed and a good depth of field, which with most near-normal
focal-length lenses, indicates an aperture of f8 or smaller. F-
stops of higher number are smaller apertures. If taken with
film, a film speed of ASA 400 or faster would have been needed
for this photo.

If this was taken with a digital camera, then the technology is
quite different, and the stop-action capabilities and depth-of-
field possibilities are not limited by film sensitivity. In
fact, I strongly suspect that the aircraft photo was taken with
a digital camera because of the quality of the computerized
image.

Billy Meier's photos were all taken with relatively
unsophisticated equipment. Digital cameras did not exist back
then. I would guess his film speed was in the 80 to 100 ASA
range. With lower film speeds, it is harder to get both great
depth of field and a stop-action shutter speed. If you want
photographic data about the Meier photos, someone has probably
written a study about them.

The answer to your question is that you are trying to mix apples
and oranges, therefore your conclusion that the subject's
perspective is questionable is not supported by comparison to
the aircraft photo. I have looked at these Meier photos, and I
completely disagree with your conclusion about the perspective.
There may be some arguments against the validity of the photos,
but you have not found the right argument in this case.


Happy hunting!

Tom Bowden








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   Mar > Mar 22

                      Re: UFOs In Ancient Art - Cuoghi

From: Diego Cuoghi <diegocuoghi@spamcop.net>
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 21:06:10 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 15:33:38 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs In Ancient Art - Cuoghi


 >From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 00:45:45 -0600
 >Subject: Re: UFOs In Ancient Art - Hebert

 >Diego, your presentation is like a breath of fresh air in a room
 >filled with stale cigar smoke! Though I doubt few in the UFO
 >community will want to hear what you have to say, you have much
 >to say and much we need to hear.


Hello Amy,

After a month (with a little help from my friends) I composed
the first page in English of my work about "ART & UFO":

http://www.sprezzatura.it/Arte/Arte_UFO_eng.htm

It's still under construction because I need to control the
translation and find some original quotations (ie. Kenneth
Clark's sentence). If you find errors (I'm sure it's full...)
please let me know.


Diego Cuoghi

--
http://www.diegocuoghi.com






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   Mar > Mar 22

                        A FOIA Response From The FBI

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net>
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 17:14:35 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 17:56:23 -0500
Subject: A FOIA Response From The FBI


An Uncharacteristically Timely FOIA Response From The FBI

By a form letter dated March 18, 2003, FOIA officer David M.
Hardy at FBI headquarters in Washington informs me:


"This is in response to your [March 5, 2003] Freedom of
Information-Privacy Acts (FOIPA) request noted above [No.
0974433-000 -- for access to all FBI-generated/received records
pertaining to the Kecksburg, Pa., UFO Incident of Dec. 9, 1965].

Based on the information furnished, a search of the automated
indices to our central records system files at FBI Headquarters
located no records responsive to your FOIPA request to indicate
you and/or the subject(s) of your request have ever been of
investigatory interest to the FBI."


The form letter encloses a one-page "FBI File Fact Sheet," the
last paragraph of which advises:  "If you believe that files
exist in one of the FBI field offices, it is incumbent upon you
to direct a request to the appropriate office."

This means, of CAUS, that I'm dusting off my March 5 request and
sending it to the field office that (presumably) serves the area
of Westmoreland County - the Pittsburgh Field Office.  Stay
tuned.







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   Mar > Mar 23

                   Re: UFO Site Infects Computer? - Hayes

From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 10:21:49 +0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 12:49:36 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Site Infects Computer? - Hayes


 >From: Larry Hatch <larry@LARRYHATCH.NET>
 >To: Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 04:18:39 -0800
 >Subject: UFO Site Infects Computer?

<snip>

 >I got the email below about 36 hours ago. I responded, but
 >nothing new has come in yet.

 >Did anybody else get a message like this? "JimJan"
 >apparently wrote in because of my website.

<snip>

Hi Larry,

I got a similar one yesterday:

FROM: JJBEIRL
TO : WEBMASTER
SUBJECT: LEAVING FOR THE FRONTS.
DATE: SATURDAY, MARCH 15, 2003

DEAR SIR: please help me find the way to
"unsolicite" my address ............
will be gone for some time and
don't need this many messages.

THANK YOU............jjb


A few weeks ago I kept getting messages from a New Zealand
address asking to be unsubscribed from UFO Roundup and all the
other hundreds of messages I was sending him every day. The
person was not on the mailing list and I do not send out any
other mail of that sort. Writing to the person produced no
reply.

Every week I got a similar message and my attempts at getting a
copy of a message with full headers met with no reply. The
messages only stopped when I stopped replying.


Best wishes,

John Hayes

webmaster@ufoinfo.com

UFOINFO:- http://www.ufoinfo.com

Official Archives for UFO Roundup, AUFORN Australian
UFO Reports and Experiences, UFO + PSI Magazine
plus archives of Filer's Files, Oz Files, UFO News UK
and UFO Sightings Italia.







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   Mar > Mar 23

                  'The Complete Guide To Mysterious Beings'

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 17:53:17 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 12:52:02 -0500
Subject: 'The Complete Guide To Mysterious Beings'



'The Complete Guide to Mysterious Beings' by John Keel
review by
Mac Tonnies

'The Complete Guide To Mysterious Beings' is a rambling but
extremely entertaining guide to extraordinary phenomena and
bizarre entities as viewed by one of the most original and
controversial researchers in the field. Keel sets out to
separate the wheat from the chaff, revealing genuine
cryptozoological and paranormal mysteries and relating some
great hoaxes along the way. 'The Complete Guide' is a formidable
stew of weirdness: sea serpents; unidentified hairy bipeds; the
'Mothman' made famous in 'The Mothman Prophecies'; menacing
roadside figures; diminutive flying saucer pilots, and blood-
sucking phantoms.

Keel is convinced that UFOs and monster sightings are two sides
of the same paranormal token. According to Keel, an other-
dimensional intelligence is adeptly manipulating and exploiting
human belief systems to unknown (but potentially insidious)
ends. The 'monster mania' that often accompanies highly
publicized sightings of 'Bigfoot'-like creatures, posits Keel,
might be deliberate attempts to attract attention away from
deeper mysteries. Keel scoffs at 'mainstream' ufology, with its
quaint 'nuts and bolts' view of unexplained phenomena; he's
convinced we're dealing with something vastly stranger. And
whether you agree with his thesis or not, you can't help coming
away from 'The Complete Guide to Mysterious Beings' without
viewing 'Fortean' anomalies in an unsettling new light. Also
recommended: 'Passport to Magonia' by Jacques Vallee and
'Uninvited Visitors' by Ivan Sanderson.


UFO books galore:

http://www.mactonnies.com/ufobooks.html







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   Mar > Mar 23

                 Re: New Bentwaters Documentary - McGonagle

From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk>
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 04:38:44 -0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 12:54:14 -0500
Subject: Re: New Bentwaters Documentary - McGonagle


 >From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 21:43:18 -0000
 >Subject: Re: New Bentwaters Documentary

 >>From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 02:55:20 -0000
 >>Subject: Re: New Bentwaters Documentary

<snip>

 >Had Mentorn not engaged Georgina Bruni as programme consultant,
 >I suspect they would have struggled to make the programme at
 >all, especially as there was an unusually short time between the
 >date on which the programme was commissioned formally by the
 >BBC, and the date on which it had to be delivered. Georgina
 >Bruni provided extensive advice and material to Mentorn, very
 >quickly. So far as I am aware, her contribution included the
 >following: an overview of the case itself, including a
 >chronology and a 'who's who' of witnesses; liaison with various
 >USAF witnesses (some of whom had not been interviewed before)
 >securing their agreement to appear on the programme; details of
 >ufologists and experts who might be used; details of the various
 >theories surrounding the case; the witness statements from
 >Burroughs, Penniston, Cabansag, Buran and Chandler; the USAF
 >photographs of the landing site; a good copy of Halt's tape (she
 >obtained the original cassette made from Halt's microcassette
 >from Sam Morgan); and copies of the key documents from the MOD's
 >file, with advice on MOD acronyms, procedures etc. I believe it
 >was time and budgetary constraints that meant the documentary
 >featured more UK-based ufologists than US-based witnesses,
 >meaning that the programme focused more on the investigation
 >than the incidents. But this was Mentorn's decision, and though
 >neither believers nor sceptics seem to have got the programme
 >they wanted, none of this was Georgina's fault.

Thanks for the clarification, Nick. Your original post gave me an
incorrect impression, which the above has now corrected.

<snip>

 >I have not altered my belief that the radiation readings taken
 >are extremely important. There are, as you will be aware,
 >debates over whether the readings were recorded accurately, and
 >over the suitability of the equipment used to take the readings.
 >But any investigation of this aspect of the case must start with
 >the data actually provided, and not subjective analyses of these
 >data. Bear in mind also that the initial advice we received from
 >specialists in the Defence Intelligence Staff was that Halt's
 >reading of 0.1 milliroentgens "seems significantly higher than
 >the average background of about 0.015 mr". This assessment is
 >recorded in a document dated 23 February 1981, which is on the
 >MOD website, and is the eighth document in the link below:

 >http://www.mod.uk/linked_files/publications/foi/ufo/ufofilepart1.pdf

 >Later on in the MOD file is a note (dated 15 April 1994) of a
 >conversation that I had with Giles Cowling from the Defence
 >Radiological Protection Service, following my re-opening of the
 >MOD's investigation into this incident. His view on Halt's data
 >was that the peak reading was ten times background levels.

 >Halt's original readings and the two official MOD analyses of
 >these readings are still vitally important. That said, the case
 >does not stand or fall on the radiation data alone. The
 >radiation readings must be considered alongside the witness
 >testimonies, the radar data, and other aspects of this
 >intriguing case.

I don't know if you are aware, but I looked into this aspect in
some detail, and came to the conclusion that the readings taken
at the time are relatively meaningless. The rationale for this
conclusion is largely explained at:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2001/oct/m10-006.shtml

and

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2001/oct/m12-010.shtml

It may be worth reading some of the responses to these posts as
well.

One point which bothers me is that the advice given to the MOD
by Giles Cowling didn't seem to include the factors which I
discussed in the two posts referred to above. I am not a nuclear
physicist, but I would have expected a radiological expert to
have pointed out what I consider to be highly pertinent factors
relating to the readings and how they were taken. This does not
inspire confidence in the quality of advice given by MOD
scientific consultants.

Cheers, Joe





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   Mar > Mar 24

                 Blow the Whistle on "Hostile Aerial Craft"

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net>
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 01:26:20 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 13:29:57 -0500
Subject: Blow the Whistle on "Hostile Aerial Craft"


Blow the Whistle on "Hostile Aerial Craft"

[LWB Note:  Here's the text of a notice I plan to place in one
or more commercially published military newspapers serving
personnel in the national capital region:]

Blow the Whistle on "Hostile Aerial Craft"

A brand-new UFO-coverup whistleblower has stepped forward to
relay his account of having witnessed some "smoking gun" telexes
during his security-guard duty in 1975 at the U. S. embassy in
Canberra, Australia.

Emanating from the Tidbinbilla tracking range, these electronic
messages reported hostile interference from UFOs with some of
our supersecret military satellites.

The reports characterized the interlopers as "hostile aerial
craft".

If you (or someone you know) have confirmatory evidence of those
reports, please contact Larry W. Bryant at.....  Be assured that
at least one Congressional Committee would be interested in
evaluating and correlating any evidence you choose to share with
us.







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   Mar > Mar 24

                         Chile: UFO over Providencia

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 08:05:20 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 14:01:19 -0500
Subject: Chile: UFO over Providencia



SOURCE: Terra.cl
DATE: March 22, 2003

ALLEGED UFOs REPORTED OVER PROVIDENCIA

***The phenomenon remained over the skies over the corner of 11
de septiembre and Marchant Pereira streets for several minutes
and vanished as suddenly as it appeared***

SANTIAGO, March 21.- Several unidentified flying objects were
reported at noon by dozens of persons in the commune of
Providencia, Santiago.

A group of lights hovered directly over the city, above the
intersection of 11 de septiembre and Marchant Pereira.

Various witnesses to the phenomenon made it known to [Terra.cl's
UFO channel]. According to them, the sighting involved a large
circular object of intense brilliance which was accompanied by
other, lesser objects. Some witnesses claim having seen up to
seven such objects around it.

UFO researchers received many phone calls shortly after the
event was recorded. Up to now, the authorities of the General
Office of Civil Aeronautics have not produced any explanations
for this event.

=========================================
Translation (C) 2003. Scott Corrales IHU
Special thanks to Guillermo Gimenez, PlanetaUFO







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   Mar > Mar 24

                       2003 Aztec UFO Symposium Report

From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 10:31:34 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 14:04:40 -0500
Subject: 2003 Aztec UFO Symposium Report


Good Morning Listerians and all the Saucers Circling... Here's
the News!

Nick Redfern's head is as cute and smooth as the photos show...
Karl Pflock wears a CIA hat...

Dr. Bruce Maccabee entertains a roudy group of Ufologists by
playing the piano...

Stanton Friedman seen actually frowning...

Rob Swiatek brings class to Ufology...

Rich Dolan doesn't whisper in hushed tones...

John Greenewald is no longer a teenager...

Jim Moseley was Shocking lacking in appearance...

Ted Loman lost his parrot...

Peter Gersten and Wendy Connors met face to face...


Dateline: Aztec, NM

The 6th annual UFO Symposium (sorry New Ager's... this is a
_real_ symposium dealing with Real Ufology) was held in
beautiful Aztec, NM last weekend and was a bustling beehive of
all the good things in Ufology.

Friends of the Aztec Public Library hosts the annual symposium
and these people pull out all the stops. Tucked away in this
beautiful northern New Mexico community are the friendliest
people on earth who surround the participants and attendees at
the symposium with New Mexico hospitality and are on track
bringing back the best of Ufology as it was in the beginning and
what it is intended to be today.

Sorry, no chemtrail prattle, talk of Heinz 57 varieties of
aliens, no sissyfied holistic mushroom induced incantations
bringing peace and harmony...no wild-eyed conspiracy garbage or
$400 per person flashlight parties to signal down the Mothership
of Adamski. What is really found at the Aztec UFO Symposium is
the best researchers presenting the past, present and future of
Ufology. It's the true Mecca for people who still know what
Ufology is, what it was and what it's supposed to be.

Haven't been there? Pity. You're really missing something truly
special! A small town with a big heart, lots of REAL food that
sticks to your bones and makes you beg for more and a community
oozing with charm and friendliness...truly very special because
you can't possibly get lost in the all the hub-bub going and you
can walk everywhere in town you want to go without wearing
yourself out. A marvelous community with great history and so
much to offer you can't see it all if you stayed for a month! If
you don't come next year you're either not serious about
Ufology, an idiot or brain dead!

The First Lady of Ufology...yours truly, met Nick Redfern and
got to rub his head for luck. We both had time to smooze about
Ufology and compare research notes. Nick's a fine gentleman, but
was that a slight Texas twang I heard beginning to enter that
wonderful British accent while we were gaffing milkshakes and
rootbeer? Careful, Nick! Btw Nick I forgot to tell you...sack
the slick black pants when your in New Mexico...we wear denim
here. <G>

That cuddly teddy bear of Ufology, Stanton Friedman, was there
and continued with his tradition of wowing the crowds. He's
truly the golden voice of Ufology and the slayer of CSICOPIANs.
BUT! The most important news is that he introduced a new lecture
on MJ-12 and we sat spellbound and at rapt attention. Good work,
Stan! Also, Stan and I had time to chin one on one during the
symposium and he actually frowned once when we were discussing
some serious issues...so contrary to rampant rumors, Stan's
smile is not Botoxed!

Rob Swiatek from FUFOR brought to the audience a wonderful
presentation of cases from the history of Ufology in the best
tradition of FUFOR (Fund for UFO Research) and the old NICAP.
Rob and I are friends, having first met each other at the Grand
Master of Ufology's house, Richard Hall, several years ago. It
was really good to see him and that boyish grin that makes you
comfortable and at ease. Like Richard, Rob is a true gentleman.
He liked walking in the bright sunshine of New Mexico and really
enjoyed himself. He had no problems getting rid of the tie...New
Mexican's don't wear Eastern Dude ties. <G>

Note to Richard Hall if you're reading this...Dick, Rob's
bearing a gift from me. He met the St. Bernard. Enjoy!

John Greenewald...I remember when he was a teeny bopper with big
dreams. Well, he's all grown up now and has entered solidly into
the field of Ufology. He's got a new book and CD Rom out (thanks
for the copies, John!) and introduced the audience to some really
new documentation that will please the old guard in Ufology. He's
busier than a beaver on speed and has so many new irons in the
fire that it's hard to keep up with him. Ah, the energy of youth!
For you young ladies in the field of Ufology be sure to attend
his lectures... he's really cute and handsome! <G>

Karl Pflock, co-author of "Shockingly Close to the Truth..." and
fellow New Mexican, was there sporting his infamous CIA hat
casting a shadow over the proverbial beard. Yes, we met in
secret session and exchanged important data. Karl's presentation
was on the Desverger's case (Florida Scout Master's Case) and it
was great! History was made because Karl and I actually agreed
on something! Unfortunately there were no UFO reporters there to
document this historical occasion for posterity...shameful! <G>
If you're reading this Karl don't break the camera before the
crew comes over to my house after they have finished with your
B. S. <LoL>

How wonderful to finally get to hang around with ol' Doc
Maccabee. He has a wonderful warm smile and a constant twinkle
in his eye. Boy, is he really a laid back fellow. Twice I had to
check to see if there was a pulse... but seriously, this guy can
really tickle the piano keys and in the evenings, away from the
crowds, he entertained us with his music while we sipped bourbon
and munched on pretzels, Goldfish crackers and mixed nuts.
Speaking of that twinkle in his eye, he gave a dynamite
presentation on Project Twinkle and had people looking up
thinking the green fireballs where zipping across the ceiling!
Don't worry Bruce, I won't tell the UFO Update readers I saw you
wearing a big Dr. Suess-style hat with alien antenna coming out
of the top or you signing your book with a huge alien-headed
pen. <VBG>

Richard Dolan was there and I think brought the government
spooks with him inadvertently. I noticed a few M.I.B. types
flitting around the audience at times. Rich gave a great
presentation on his developing dissertation between the aspect
of Ufology and secrecy within the government. A fascinating
piece of work he is hard at work on and getting to talk with him
it is evident that his work is constantly in flux and evolving.
His book is in it's second edition and he's gone back and
changed some of his initial positions, etc. as he has gained
knowledge and momentum in his research. Keep an eye on Rich and
his work...really important stuff he's doing for the field of
Ufology!

Ted Loman was one of the Masters of Ceremonies at the event.
Unfortunately he was not wearing his signature eye patch. An
unfortuate accident has impaired the vision in his other eye,
but he is taking it very well and it sure isn't stopping him
while he's waiting for the necessary proceedures to fix the
problem. He's as gregarious as always and continues to keep you
off guard by not knowing what's coming next. Thanks Ted for the
most enjoyable meetings and coffee klotch'ins. He introduced his
new film to the Aztec crowd and it was a very special event and
a great deal of fun!

Peter Gersten. What can I say? We met face to face. We did not
have the big gun fight on the main street of Aztec. There were
no sparks. What we did do was have fun over several meals and
gave each other big hugs. He's a sweetie and this old biddy is
losing her edge. <G> Thank you Peter for the wonderful
introduction and the friendship!

Jim Moseley didn't make it this year, but sent word he'll be
there next. We really and truly missed you Jim... but we still
wonder what your major malfunction is about not getting a
computer and onto the internet. Shocking close to the truth that
you're beginning to get stoggie! Get with the program
fella...Dang! You're taking the Guttenberg thing a little too
seriously for cry'n out loud! Just to let you know, I did my
best to fill in for you, but it was not easy by any stretch of
the imagination. During it all, I tried to give the crowd the
feminine version of the Moseley mystique and Ufological
gadabout. I told the audience that you'd be there next year to
bring them "Shockingly Close to the Truth..." and I'd be right
behind you to give them the truth. <Hee Hee!>

Thanks Suzanne and Mr. X for a wonderful symposium! I'm already
biting the bit for next year to get here!


Wendy Connors

First Lady of Ufology reporting







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   Mar > Mar 24

                   Re: UFO Site Infects Computer? - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 11:51:08 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 15:10:53 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Site Infects Computer? - Hatch


 >From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 10:21:49 +0000
 >Subject: Re: UFO Site Infects Computer?

 >>From: Larry Hatch <larry@LARRYHATCH.NET>
 >>To: Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 04:18:39 -0800
 >>Subject: UFO Site Infects Computer?

 >>Did anybody else get a message like this? "JimJan"
 >>apparently wrote in because of my website.

 ><snip>

 >Hi Larry,

 >I got a similar one yesterday:

 >FROM: JJBEIRL
 >TO : WEBMASTER
 >SUBJECT: LEAVING FOR THE FRONTS.
 >DATE: SATURDAY, MARCH 15, 2003

 >DEAR SIR: please help me find the way to
 >"unsolicite" my address ............
 >will be gone for some time and
 >don't need this many messages.

 >THANK YOU............jjb

 >A few weeks ago I kept getting messages from a New Zealand
 >address asking to be unsubscribed from UFO Roundup and all the
 >other hundreds of messages I was sending him every day. The
 >person was not on the mailing list and I do not send out any
 >other mail of that sort. Writing to the person produced no
 >reply.

 >Every week I got a similar message and my attempts at getting a
 >copy of a message with full headers met with no reply. The
 >messages only stopped when I stopped replying.


Hi John:


Yes, "JimJan" aka Jim Beirl is the same guy. His email provider
is imbris.net which is out of Idaho however.

He finally responded with more shrieks for help; changed his
story (he is leaving for England now instead of Japan!)... and
still no copy of the offensive messages he complains of.

He is either totally clueless or else just putting everybody on.
Its hard to believe anyone is this dense. Here is full copy of
the latest, please forgive the spacing and shouting. I am not
about to retype it:

- - -

FROM :  JJBeirl  xxxx@imbris.net

THANKS MR HATCH..........FOR YOUR IMMEDIATE REPLY.
SOME HOW  I SEARCHED OUT A RESEARCH GROUP ON UFO's
AT: http://clavius.as.arizona.edu/vo/index.html
IN A PERIOD OF TWO WEEKS......I HAVE HAD TO DELETE
OVER 433 E MAIL LETTERS.  AT MY AGE I AM GOING TO
INCREASE MY HEART MEDICINE IF THIS MANY LETTERS CROWD
MY IPS.

I DO NOT KNOW HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE TO THEM,  AND I AM
NOT GETTING ANY HELP FROM MY PROVIDER.
CAN YOU HELP ME?   I HAVE AN OLD COMPUTER AND IT
TAKES "HOURS" TO BRING UP A WEB SEARCH SITE......
INCLUDING JEEVES.

THANK YOU FOR ANY HELP YOU CAN GIVE ME.
PS:  WE ARE LEAVING FOR ENGLAND IN TWO WEEKS.......
I HOPE.

= = = = = =

The Clavius site has nothing to do with UFOs, email Lists,
discussion groups or Spam. It is a Vatican site related to
astronomy - of all things.

I answered the word salad above demanding copy of the offensive
messages jbeirl refers to. No response yet.

Its like a message in a bottle, with no return address.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch






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   Mar > Mar 24

                    Whether It's A Landing Site Or Not...

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 15:39:21 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 15:39:21 -0500
Subject: Whether It's A Landing Site Or Not...



Source: The Farmington Daily Times - New Mexico

http://www.daily-times.com/Stories/0,1413,129%257E6572%257E1265820,00.html

Monday, March 24, 2003

Whether it's a landing site or not it offers a nice hike and
beautiful view

By Carol Cohea
The Daily Times

AZTEC -- Whether you're a believer, a skeptic or undecided,
Sunday's warm spring sunshine made for a beautiful day for a
drive, hike and tour of the purported landing site of a
spacecraft.

The tour was in conjunction with the three-day sixth annual
Aztec UFO Symposium at the Aztec Civic Center.

This is only the second year for tours to the site. Three tours
to Hart Canyon were scheduled Saturday and three on Sunday.
Approximately 70 individuals took tours to the site, located
about 12 1/2 miles north of downtown Aztec and 7 1/2 miles east
of U.S. 550.

The view was spectacular from the pinon-juniper scattered
hillsides and sandstone outcroppings. Shiprock could be seen in
the distance, or Space-Shiprock as one observer called it.

The crash or soft landing, as described by Scott Ramsey, the
guide for this particular tour, allegedly took place March 25,
1948. This Tuesday will mark the 55th anniversary of the alleged
event.

Standing on the outcropping, Ramsey explained that old timers in
the area saw it coming in from the southwest, going in a
northeasterly direction when it landed on the mesa top
overlooking Hart Canyon.

"The stories say the craft was virtually intact," he said.

However, according to a sign on a metal post 40 feet from the
mesa edge, the alleged landing resulted in the deaths of the 16
on board. Remains of the craft and the charred bodies were
supposedly taken to Los Alamos for research.

According to stories, the recovery of the craft was done by the
U.S. government and military as one of the most secretive
recoveries of spacecraft with origins unknown since the similar
recovery in Roswell, eight months earlier.

The site doesn't look much different than the other sandstone
outcroppings along the canyon edge, though this particular area,
about 30 feet by 100 feet, was seemingly swept clear of tree
stumps and twisted limbs.

 From the supposed site of the crash, the spacecraft was
purportedly disassembled and dragged up an incline about 200
yards to the site of a nine-inch thick concrete slab.

The theory is that the slab was poured by the military to
support one of the legs of a crane used to carry out the
spacecraft. With its thickness and rebar reinforcement it was
designed to hold a tremendous weight.

To the untrained eye it appears to be a well cap. Souvenir
hunters have hacked away at it and a core sample has been taken
for further testing, Ramsey said.

A cleared roadway leading east from the slab to the vehicle
parking area is purported to be one cut by the military to get
into the crash site and to remove the craft.

Earlier, Ramsey showed observers what was thought to have been a
landing site. To the untrained eye it appeared to be concave
water catchment outlined by river rocks. In the center of the
depression a small juniper grows.

"We're not sure what this is, but nothing grows here," Ramsey
said.

Although Ramsey said nothing was growing in the depression, a
small tree appeared to be sprouting from the center. But Ramsey
said, "No weeds grow out there and the soil is a different
color."

Miguel Martinez of Cortez was in the area and decided he might
as well come check out the landing site.

"The tour is pretty interesting. I'm into UFOs and aliens. It's
cool to check it out," he said.

An Aztec couple said they've driven by the area and when they
heard about tours, they decided to come. The husband declined to
be identified.

"I just don't know," he said of the site. "I came to see what
they had to say. A lot of people sure believe in it."

Jim Berwanger, of Los Angeles, said he was trying to put some
humor and a dose of skepticism into the tour.

"I have an open mind. But I'm against bad science. I like real
empirical science. I say Prove it.' At this point, this is
theory and theories must be believed. You have to have faith.
And then it's like a religion," he said.

"It's fun to look at, but it doesn't prove anything was here. A
good dose of skepticism keeps people on their toes," he said of
the crash site.

The area is currently a Bureau of Land Management recreation
area, open to mountain bikers, hikers and horseback riders. It's
also the longtime home of animals, including a mountain lion,
according to Ramsey.

Maps are available from BLM as well as at the Aztec Library.

Ramsey said one group he brought out was only mildly interested
in the alleged landing site and more interested in hiking.

What would Ramsey like to see the area become?

"I'd like to see the area and the story researched more. But I'd
like to see it left as it is. If it can be proven, this is an
important part of New Mexico history," he said.

"I'm thinking theme park," Berwanger said.

Carol Cohea: carolc@daily-times.com


[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]








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   Mar > Mar 24

                    Andropov Of KGB Had Interest In UFOs

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 15:42:38 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 15:42:38 -0500
Subject: Andropov Of KGB Had Interest In UFOs


Source: The Observer - London

http://www.observer.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,920058,00.html


KGB Chief Ordered 4M Soldiers To Keep Watching The Skies
For UFOs


Nick Paton Walsh in Moscow
Sunday March 23, 2003
The Observer

Yuri Andropov, the former Soviet leader and long-time head of
the KGB, had an acute personal interest in UFOs and ordered a
13-year programme that required every soldier in the military to
monitor sightings over Russian territory, according to new
revelations.

Andropov shunned the splendour enjoyed by many Soviet leaders to
live in a sparse flat throughout his 15 years as KGB chief and
one year as Secretary-General of the Communist Party.

Igor Sinitsin, who worked as an aide to Andropov in the
Politburo for six years and has just written his memoirs, told
The Observer that in 1977 he discovered that Andropov kept a
file on the phenomena in his desk.

At the time there had been fevered speculation in the Soviet
Union about a large unidentified object in the skies over
Petrozavosk on 20 September, 1977. Sinitsin, now 70, said that
one of his responsibilities was to monitor the foreign press and
he brought Andropov a Stern magazine piece about UFOs.

'I dictated a summary of the piece to my secretary and was sure
to express some doubts, because you know how sceptical the mood
was in Soviet times to such stories. I worried he would be
concerned about my mental health, but I dared to hand the
summary to him.'

Sinitsin was shocked by the staid KGB chief's reaction. Andropov
handed him the text of an official report he had ordered from
the counter-espionage directorate. 'It described a UFO
appearance in Astrakhan that an officer had seen while fishing.'

Through Andropov's personal interest, in 1978 two committees
were established to investigate UFOs, one military and one
civilian. Andropov ordered four million Soviet soldiers to file
detailed reports of incidents.

Platov said the programme led to hundreds of thousands of
sightings being recorded in the 13 years before it was abandoned
with the break-up of the Soviet Union in 1990.

Most cases had a 'rational explanation and were mainly linked to
technical issues like missile launches'.


[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]






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   Mar > Mar 24

                    Selling Space-Alien Fiction As Truth

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 15:46:19 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 15:46:19 -0500
Subject: Selling Space-Alien Fiction As Truth


Source: The Baltimore Sun

http://www.sunspot.net/features/booksmags/bal-bk.alien23mar23,0,832647.story?col
l=bal%2Dsociety%2Dutility


Selling Space-Alien Fiction As Truth

Publishers, not to mention authors, who peddle lies for profit
deserve to be punished.

By Steve Weinberg
Special To The Sun
Originally published March 23, 2003

Authors and their publishers who push books labeled "nonfiction"
about UFOs carrying aliens to earth - where the aliens then
sometimes implant foreign objects under the earthlings' skin and
engage in a form of sexual intercourse - ought to be publicly
scolded. Instead, academics who should know better, book
reviewers, retail booksellers and readers themselves allow the
misleading "nonfiction" labeling to go unpunished. As a result,
those publishers who know they are selling lies for profit (or
else are employing editors deluded to the point of being
psychologically unbalanced) remain in business with no apparent
adverse consequences.

Two of the best-known alien abduction authors write for
publishers who devote much of their nonfiction lists to
responsibly researched and argued volumes - St. Martin's Press
and Crown/Random House. Dozens of additional author-publisher
combinations are also complicit.

Amid all the trash are a few volumes about UFOs, alien
abductions and related phenomena that actually say the emperors
have no clothes. In a stack of books accumulating at The Sun
over the past few years - books that form the basis of this
essay - only one stands out like a diamond in a feedlot overrun
with manure. More about this diamond later.

Probably the most visible offender among mainstream book
publishers is St. Martin's Press, which profited from Whitley
Strieber's Confirmation: The Hard Evidence of Aliens Among Us?
(1998, 324 pages, $6.99).

At the time of its publication, I started to read Strieber's
book with an open mind. The term "hard evidence" attracted me,
and gave me hope that finally an author who said he had
experienced an encounter with aliens would finally deliver proof
that a skeptic (but not a cynic) like myself could accept.

Strieber failed the hard evidence test miserably. The eyewitness
accounts, from himself and others, can easily be explained away
based on theories far more likely than alien travel to Earth. As
for the tangible objects found in the homes or on the persons of
the inexplicably chosen earthlings: Those objects - some shown
in photographs - obviously came from somewhere, but Strieber
presents no evidence to make me conclude that aliens were the
source.

It is one thing to state that other planets, other solar
systems, might support what we on Earth call "human life." I
have no trouble accepting that possibility. It would be hubris
to think otherwise. It is quite another matter to state that
those theorized human life forms have conquered unimaginable
time, space, navigation and materials-science obstacles to
arrive on and depart from Earth at will.

Confirmation is Strieber's 10th solo book (he has also
collaborated with James Kunetka), six of them clearly labeled
fiction. He and his publisher appear to have trouble finding the
normally clear line between fiction and nonfiction.

St. Martin's is not merely a neutral purveyor of a controversial
book, able to defend itself on noble First Amendment or other
free-speech grounds. The hype written within the St. Martin's
workplace for the cover of Confirmation is anything but neutral.

It says "Warning: After You Read This Book, You WILL Believe in
Alien Life ... bestselling author and UFOlogist Whitley Strieber
boldly explores the vast territory of alien encounters,
uncovering the most conclusive evidence of all, PHYSICAL
EVIDENCE that aliens may really be here. Marvel as Whitley
Strieber tells his own compelling story - and those of countless
others - while you discover shocking new close encounters, many
involving groups of people; thousands of sightings worldwide,
many captured on video; shocking evidence of five mysterious
implants surgically removed from human bodies; and much, much
more! The most compelling question in the universe has remained
unanswered for centuries. Now, finally, there is CONFIRMATION."

Other than Strieber and St. Martin's, the most infuriating
author-publisher combination among the books sampled is John E.
Mack and Crown. The book is Passport to the Cosmos: Human
Transformation and Alien Encounters (1999, 306 pages, $24).

Mack and Crown exploit his advanced degree (an M.D. with a
specialty in psychiatry) by noting it in huge letters on the
dust jacket. His faculty position at Harvard University Medical
School is mentioned, unsurprisingly. One of his major credits is
stated in a potentially misleading manner on the cover:
"Pulitzer Prize-Winning Author of the Best-Selling Abduction."
The book Abduction: Human Encounters With Aliens, which set the
stage for Passport to the Cosmos, is indeed by Mack. But it has
nothing to do with his Pulitzer Prize.

He won that in 1977 for a biography of T. E. Lawrence, also
known as Lawrence of Arabia. The Lawrence biography is in no way
connected to Mack's later fascination with alien encounters.
Mack undoubtedly believes he is offering credible evidence in
Passport to the Cosmos. To me, his book reads like more science
fiction parading as nonfiction. Mack and I certainly have
different ideas of what constitutes proof.

Mack feeds off Strieber. In fact, Mack opens Chapter 1 with an
extended quotation from an interview he conducted with Strieber:
"The power of the encounters [with aliens] comes from
acknowledging your helplessness and keeping the whole matter in
question, because the deeper the question goes, the more you
attempt to come to some kind of resolution. If you keep asking
[the alien beings] questions, they keep reforming the thing in
such a way that the questions get more provocative but can't
quite be answered. ... If you start saying 'Well, they are
aliens and they're from this planet,' you're lost. ... I've
often been in situations where the question has been impossible
to live with. You can't not answer it, and you can't answer it
either. And there you have it. You sit in a situation where you
can't bear to be - and you grow."

The opening of any book, and certainly a book like Mack's that
calls for suspension of disbelief, ought to be both compelling
and clear. For the life of me, I have no idea what Strieber is
saying in that passage, nor do I understand why Mack uses it so
prominently.

Perhaps Mack should have opened with material he relegates to
page 252, in which those who say they have encountered aliens
discuss the sexual aspects. Here is Mack, conveying Strieber's
thoughts: "The sexual part of my relationship [with the beings]
has been very complex and very rich and very difficult at times
because I'm a married man. ...The physical dynamic is different
in the sense that the sensation of intercourse moves through
your whole body, and you become totally devoted to it for longer
than I do in normal intercourse."

Mack relates that Streiber and his wife, Ann, have reached an
accord concerning the other sexual relationship. But Mack does
not say specifically what Ann thinks about Strieber having seen
"a hybrid child in the [space] ship whose appearance makes him
think that it might be the offspring of his union with the alien
mate."

As with the hypesters at St. Martin's Press, the publicists
pushing Mack's book for Crown betray not a word of doubt. Mack
"asserts that the alien abduction phenomenon ushers in a new era
in human consciousness, a time in which we must be willing to
embrace the idea that alien visitation is occurring on some
level. ... Dr. Mack transforms the ethereal ruminations common
in works involving alien abduction into a compelling treatise of
global importance."

One writer who provides an intellectual antidote to the
"nonfiction" of Strieber, Mack and other authors is Joel
Achenbach, a Washington Post reporter when Simon & Schuster
published his book Captured by Aliens: The Search for Life and
Truth in a Very Large Universe in 1999.

Achenbach gives spokesmen like Strieber and Mack their say. But
instead of taking them at face value, he places their beliefs
into a variety of contexts, such as the phenomenon of wishful
thinking, the quest for spiritual meaning in a semi-secular age,
and hard-fact advances in knowledge by astronomers and
astronauts, among others.

May a million Achenbach-like books bloom. And may publishers
start labeling the works of Strieber, Mack and others of their
ilk more appropriately. "Science fiction" might do for starters.

Steve Weinberg, an author in Columbia, Mo., has written six
books that he swears are nonfiction, including his 1992 book
about the craft of biography, Telling the Untold Story. He
spends his life seeking the truth as an investigative
journalist.

Copyright 2003 - The Baltimore Sun


[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]







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   Mar > Mar 24

               CCCRN News: Crop Circle Report Archives Changes

From: Paul Anderson <psa@look.ca>
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 12:40:35 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 15:55:42 -0500
Subject: CCCRN News: Crop Circle Report Archives Changes



CCCRN NEWS
E-News from the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network

March 24, 2003

http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada

_____________________________


Crop Circle Report Archives Changes

The web site report archives have been updated again and
reorganized (a spring cleaning!), with standard crop circle
reports (circular or other geometric patterns in cereal crops or
other vegetation) in the main archives (1920s - 2002) and other
possibly related phenomena reports now listed in separate
archives, for ice circles (frozen ponds, lakes, etc.), forest
rings (specifically the huge forest floor ring depressions as
previously documented by The Geological Survey of Canada), other
miscellaneous circles (ground/soil, gravel, underwater seabeds,
etc.) and randomly downed areas (cereal crops or other
vegetation).

The main crop circle archives now contain 227 reports (1920s -
  2002) and the possibly related phenomena archives 26 reports
(1950s - 2002).

The main crop circle archives page also now has numerical
statistics listings of numbers of reports, by both year and
province/territory and also numbers of reports of possibly
related phenomena, listed by type of phenomenon.

____________________________


Crop Circles: Quest for Truth

Buy the DVD or VHS Video through CCCRN at special
discounted prices!

http://www.cropcirclesthemovie.com/affiliates/special_buy2.php?id=a6cf7d

____________________________


The Prairie Circular

Want more? Subscribe to The Prairie Circular, the quarterly
print newsletter of CCCRN and keep informed with the latest
news, updates, articles, reviews and complete crop circle
coverage from the Canadian prairies and across the country...
only from CCCRN!

Current issue: Winter 2002 - Canadian Crop Circle Summary
Report 2002

http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada/theprairiecircular.html

____________________________


CCCRN News is the e-news service of the Canadian Crop Circle
Research Network, providing e-mail updates with the latest news
and reports on the crop circle phenomenon in Canada, as well as
other information on CCCRN-related projects and events, sent
free to your e-mail

To subscribe, send an e-mail with Subscribe CCCRN News in the
subject line to:

cccrnnews@look.ca

The Canadian Crop Circle Research Network is a non-profit
research organization which has been seriously investigating and
documenting the crop circle phenomenon and other possibly
related phenomena in Canada since 1995, creating a liason
between researchers, farmers, the public, media and scientists

Main Office

202 - 325 East 14th Avenue
Vancouver, BC V5T 2M9 Canada
Tel/Fax: 604.731.8522
Cell: 604.727.1454
E-Mail: cccrn@look.ca
Web: http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada

Copyright Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, 2003










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   Mar > Mar 25

                        Italian UFO Newsflash No. 388

From: Edoardo Russo <edoardo.russo@tiscali.it>
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 18:14:36 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 16:48:04 -0500
Subject: Italian UFO Newsflash No. 388


ITALIAN UFO NEWSFLASH

ISSUE NO. 388 -  20 MARCH 2003

by the Italian Center for UFO Studies
(Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici, CISU)

Contents:

- February Sightings In Italy
- A Fallen Object In Molise?
- On The Cover Of Focus Magazine


FEBRUARY SIGHTINGS IN ITALY

The number of sightings of UFO phenomena occurring in Italy
during the month of February, and collected through this past 8
March by the Italian Center for UFO Studies (CISU) Internet
working group on case histories, amounted to 42.

In fact, the month registered a 40% increase in the number of
reports gathered, in comparison with the same month for the
previous year, also as the result of two small flaps which took
place on the 24th in the province of Varese and on the 28th in
Emilia, respectively. The two flaps also condition various
aggregate data, in particular distribution by region for these
first two months of 2003.

Meanwhile, the total for this initial two-month period has
turned out to be greater than the same period for last year, as
well as than the preceding two years.

In the meantime, the collection and cataloguing of sightings
continues also for 2001 (the already-staggering total of the
wave now having surpassed 848 cases) and for 2002 (745 cases),
such that a hypothesis may be offered that the annual mean
number of Italian reports regularly and steadily exceeds the
700-mark.

The complete lists of cases, along with the update of tables for
the last three years, the statistical breakdown and graphs, are
available on the CISU Website.

[Communications by Giorgio Abraini]


A FALLEN OBJECT IN MOLISE?

According to a report by the prefecture of Isernia, numerous
observations during the late evening of Saturday, 15 March, were
received by the Isernia Police Department's provincial command
switchboard in regards to an unidentified flying object which
had fallen in a wooded area near the town of Venafro, setting
off a fire which was rapidly brought under control by fire
crews.

No object was found in the area, and snowfalls over the ensuing
days impeded further investigations thereafter. Initially, the
authorities were worried about a public furor, denying that the
fire had been caused by a meteorite or a piece of space
wreckage, and suggesting instead that the incident had to do
with a lightning strike.

As a rebuttal to such statements, motorists have meanwhile come
forth with testimony whereby they claim to have distinctly
observed a long, fiery trail of an orange color, passing
overhead from a southerly direction and then falling into the
woods of Monte Corno  where, immediately following the impact,
the witnesses saw flames break out.

[ANSA, Il Giornale del Molise, La Stampa and other dailies, 17
and 18 March; collaboration by Renzo Cabassi, Roberto Labanti
and Gildo Persone']


ON THE COVER OF FOCUS MAGAZINE

On Italian newsstands now is the April issue of the popular
science monthly "Focus", the cover and main article of which are
dedicated to UFOs and the search for extraterrestrial life.

As has occurred previously, documentation on the UFO section was
the result of collaboration with the Italian Center for UFO
Studies (CISU), which furnished case histories, document
archives and technical assistance.

Following publication, a debate was held last Friday on the
journal's Website, featuring the participation of Paolo Toselli
as a UFO expert.

[Collaboration by Paolo Toselli]


Collaborators on this edition were:
Giorgio Abraini, Renzo Cabassi, Roberto Labanti,
Gildo Persone' and Paolo Toselli.


- - -

This is the English translation of UFOTEL, a free phone/Internet
information service on UFOs edited weekly by  Edoardo Russo for
the Italian Center for UFO Studies (Centro Italiano Studi
Ufologici), available in Italian by calling +39-011-545294, or
by e-mail subscription, or on CISU website at
http://www.arpnet.it/ufo/ultime.htm

UFOTEL is a supplement to "UFO - Rivista di informazione
ufologica", published by the Italian Center for UFO Studies,
registered at Tribunale di Torino,  No. 3670, on 19 June 1986.
Director: Giovanni Settimo.
Publisher: Cooperativa UPIAR, Corso Vittorio
Emanuele 108, 10121 Turin, Italy

Translated from Italian to English by:
Gary J. Presto, Freelance Italian>English Translator & Proofreader
44 Bickford Ave., Apt. 2
Revere, MA 02151
USA

Tel.: ++1.781.485.1683
FAX: ++1.781.485.1684
E-mail: gpresto@attbi.com
Webpage: http://www.proz.com/translator/723



- - -

(c) 2003 by: CISU,
Corso Vittorio Emanuele 108,  10121 Torino, Italia

This newsletter (as a whole or in part) may be freely copied,
photocopied, reproduced, stored, distributed and retrieved, at
the only condition that Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici is
reported as the source.

You may get it directly via e-mail by subscribing
(just send a blank message to:
cisuflash-subscribe@yahoogroups.com)

The CISU is a no-profit association whose aims are:
- to promote the scientific study of UFO phenomena in Italy;
- to help circulate information about UFO phenomena and studies;
- to coordinate national activities of data collecting and studying.

You may reach Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici:
- by mail: CISU, Corso Vittorio Emanuele 108, 10121 Torino, Italia
- by phone: +39 (011) 30.78.63 (24 hours UFO Hotline)
- by fax: +39 (011) 54.50.33
- by Internet e-mail: cisu@ufo.it
- at the World Wide Web URL: http://www.cisu.org






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   Mar > Mar 25

                Unusual Circular Cloud In Space Station Photo

From: David Thomson <dave@volantis.org>
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 09:02:58 -0600
Fwd Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 16:51:49 -0500
Subject: Unusual Circular Cloud In Space Station Photo


At

http://www.spaceweather.com/

there is a feature photo of an aurora taken from the ISS in
January.  In the lower portion of the photo is a huge circular
cloud ring. Does anybody have insights as to what this cloud
ring might be caused from?


Dave







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   Mar > Mar 25

                      UFO 'Clone' Baby: First Pictures

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 16:59:34 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 16:59:34 -0500
Subject: UFO 'Clone' Baby: First Pictures



Source: The Evening Standard - London

http://www.femail.co.uk/pages/standard/article.html?in_article_id=3D173535&i=
n_page_id=3D2


UFO 'Clone' Baby: First Pictures
by Richard Allen,
Evening Standard
25th March 2003

This is the first picture of one of the babies alleged to have
been cloned by a UFO cult.

Clonaid, which is linked to the Raelian sect and claims to have
cloned five babies, said the photograph on its website was that
of the third baby, a boy, born in Japan in January.

The baby is shown in a hospital incubator in a nappy with what
appears to be a bandage over its eyes. Clonaid president, Dr
Brigitte Boisselier, claimed in December that the world's first
cloned baby, Eve, was born to American parents on Boxing Day. A
second cloned baby girl was said to have been born to a Dutch
lesbian on 3 January.

Dr Boisselier later claimed a fourth cloned baby was born to
Saudi Arabian parents on 27 January, and a fifth on 4 February.
All five babies are "in excellent health=EE, according to
Clonaid's website.

The website says: "The next implantations have now started and
will proceed for a few months. Twenty couples are involved in
this second generation.

"The five happy couples of the first generation are now building
an association in defence of their rights once they decide to go
public.

"Clonaid wishes to thank the thousands of individuals who
volunteered to help and hopes they will continue to voice their
opinion in support of reproductive human cloning."

The company, the scientific wing of the Raelian movement that
believes extra-terrestrials created mankind, said the parents of
the baby born in Japan would soon prove that it had the same DNA
as its dead, older sibling.

Previously Clonaid has failed to live up to such pledges to give
evidence of its cloning claims.

The group initially promised to conduct independent DNA tests to
prove that baby Eve was a clone, but no evidence has been
produced. The photograph's presentation is the latest episode in
what many scientists say is a hoax to publicise the Raelians.

In January Dr Michael Guillen, who had been appointed by Clonaid
to oversee DNA testing, resigned after revealing that the cult
had consistently held up the process. A Miami lawyer applied to
the Florida authorities to become Eve's legal guardian, saying
that a cloned child could face serious health problems. Dr
Boisselier told a Florida court that the baby was in Israel but
she did not know where.

She said the parents had cut off all contact with the cult. The
case was thrown out after a judge ruled that the baby - if it
existed - would be outside his jurisdiction.

Copyright - 2003 Associated New Media Limited

[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]






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   Mar > Mar 25

                    UFO Could Have Been Electrocuted Cat

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 17:01:37 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 17:01:37 -0500
Subject: UFO Could Have Been Electrocuted Cat



Source: Ananova

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_764488.html


UFO Could Have Been Electrocuted Cat

Experts say a reported UFO sighting in Norway was probably an
electrocuted cat.

People in Lardal reported seeing a fire ball explode in the
night sky and fall slowly down to earth.

But investigators think they've solved the mystery after the
charred body of a cat was found at the foot of an electrical
mast.

They believe the unlucky cat climbed up the mast and touched a
live wire, reports Aftenposten.

Lars Helge Sogn says what people saw was the cat exploding and
falling off the mast.

Story filed: 15:58 Tuesday 25th March 2003


[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]






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   Mar > Mar 25

               FOIA Request To U.S. Embassy Canberra Australia

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net>
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 17:11:23 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 18:22:29 -0500
Subject: FOIA Request To U.S. Embassy Canberra Australia


FOIA Request to the U.S. Embassy in Canberra, Australia; to the
U. S. State Department; and to DARPA

TO(1): Military Attache
        U. S. Embassy - Canberra (Australia)
        The American Embassy Headquarters
        Moonah Place, Yarralumia  ACT 2600

TO(2): Freedom of Information Manager
        U. S. Department of State -- SA-2
        Office of IRM Programs and Services (A/RPS)
        Washington, DC  20522-6001

TO(3): Freedom of Information Manager
        U. S. Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency
        3701 North Fairfax Drive
        Arlington, VA  22203-1714

FROM:  Larry W. Bryant
        3518 Martha Custis Drive
        Alexandria, VA  22302

DATE:  March 25, 2003

Certain "insider" information recently imparted to UFO
researchers reveals that, back in 1975, a series of telexes and
related message "flashes" arrived at the U. S. Embassy -
  Canberra via U. S. military channels.  These electronic
communications transmitted reports of hostile interference from
UFOs with some of the DARPA-originated/managed space satellites.
  Rather than being dubbed "UFO's" by the reports, the
interlopers were labeled "hostile aerial craft."

Accordingly, I hereby submit this e-formatted letter as a
formal, written freedom-of-information request directed to the
multiple addressees listed above.  As such, it is being snail-
mailed as a signed printout to the two U.S.-based addressees.

Please send me a copy of all your agency-generated and agency-
received records pertaining to the above-cited electronic
communications, as well as a copy of all your records pertaining
to all such hostile interference occurring against these
satellites since 1975 -- said records to include the following:

The embassy-received telexes/TWX's/"flashes" themselves;
intelligence analyses; transcripts of all U.S-intercepted
communications from the "hostile aerial craft (HAC)"; recorded
tracking data pertaining to the interference; presidential
intelligence briefings; photographic evidence of the
interference; personnel-interview reports; minutes of meetings;
memoranda for record; serious-incident logs; military-alert
notices; transcripts of U.S.-USSR telephonic "hotline"
conversations to and from the White House; intra-agency and
inter-agency executive correspondence; daily-activity reports;
satellite-damage assessments; the standing operating procedure
for processing/evaluating/disseminating the HAC-interference
reports; and briefings prepared for delivery to
members/committees of the Congress.

Since I make this request on behalf of the public interest in
knowing how your agencies record, respond to, and assess such
cases of space-satellite interference from HAC activity, and as
a member of the UFO-awareness press (specifically as a columnist
for http://www.ufocity.com ), I ask that you waive all records-
search fees incident to your fulfilling it.



LARRY W. BRYANT
Director, Washington, D.C., Office of
Citizens Against UFO Secrecy


Copies furnished to:

Mark S. Zaid, Esq. (Washington, D.C.)

Peter Robbins, Editor-in-Chief, UFOcity.com

Chairman, U. S. Senate Committee on Intelligence

Chairman, U. S. Senate Committee on Government Affairs

Chairman, Subcommittee on Government Information, Management, and
    Technology -- U. S. House of Representatives








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   Mar > Mar 25

              Re: Unusual Circular Cloud In Space Station Photo

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 17:23:15 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 18:24:35 -0500
Subject: Re: Unusual Circular Cloud In Space Station Photo


 >From: David Thomson <dave@volantis.org>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 09:02:58 -0600
 >Subject: Unusual Circular Cloud In Space Station Photo

 >At

 >http://www.spaceweather.com/

 >there is a feature photo of an aurora taken from the ISS in
 >January. In the lower portion of the photo is a huge circular
 >cloud ring. Does anybody have insights as to what this cloud
 >ring might be caused from?


That "circular cloud" is actually a partially snow-covered
impact structure, Manicougan (Sp?), possibly.

Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery







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   Mar > Mar 25

              Re: Unusual Circular Cloud In Space Station Photo

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 17:30:19 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 18:25:47 -0500
Subject: Re: Unusual Circular Cloud In Space Station Photo


Sorry, I misspelled the name of the Manicouagan Crater which is,
in fact, what is shown in the photo with the green aurora.  Have
a look at:

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap001213.html

No, it is not a circular cloud, but a crater with the edge lake
ice-covered.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery





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   Mar > Mar 25

              Re: UFO Could Have Been Electrocuted Cat - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 17:29:07 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 18:27:17 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Could Have Been Electrocuted Cat - Velez


 >Source: Ananova

 >http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_764488.html

 >UFO Could Have Been Electrocuted Cat

 >Experts say a reported UFO sighting in Norway was probably an
 >electrocuted cat.

 >People in Lardal reported seeing a fire ball explode in the
 >night sky and fall slowly down to earth.

 >But investigators think they've solved the mystery after the
 >charred body of a cat was found at the foot of an electrical
 >mast.

 >They believe the unlucky cat climbed up the mast and touched a
 >live wire, reports Aftenposten.

 >Lars Helge Sogn says what people saw was the cat exploding and
 >falling off the mast.


Shocking UFO report. But it sounds like an 'IFO'... Identified
Flambeed Object!  {:-O

John Velez






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   Mar > Mar 26

              Re: Unusual Circular Cloud In Space Station Photo

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 00:18:00 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 07:22:19 -0500
Subject: Re: Unusual Circular Cloud In Space Station Photo


 >From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 17:23:15 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Unusual Circular Cloud In Space Station Photo

 >>From: David Thomson <dave@volantis.org>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 09:02:58 -0600
 >>Subject: Unusual Circular Cloud In Space Station Photo

 >>At

 >>http://www.spaceweather.com/

 >>there is a feature photo of an aurora taken from the ISS in
 >>January. In the lower portion of the photo is a huge circular
 >>cloud ring. Does anybody have insights as to what this cloud
 >>ring might be caused from?

 >That "circular cloud" is actually a partially snow-covered
 >impact structure, Manicougan (Sp?), possibly.

Hi Ray, David,

Seems about right considering the AB is over Northern Canada.
It's actually an ice ring crater rather than the usual deep
crater with a ridge.

Go to the following URL for a peek. Scroll way down for a
picture. You will see what I mean.

Don Ledger


http://www.morien-institute.org.uk/impact_craters.html

The Manicougan crater in Quebec, Canada, is believed to have
been caused by an impact around 200 to 300 million years ago.
There is a recent  Landsat image available showing all of the
rivers and streams that flow into it.

At roughly 60 miles across, the Manicougan crater ranks as joint
5th largest crater in the world, along with the Popigai crater
in Russia, which is about the same size. Another good image of
the Manicougan crater taken from space is to be found on the
website of the University of Colorado.

It has been thought previously that the impact which caused this
crater was responsible for the Triassic-Jurassic extinction
event, but scientists have pointed out that, at approx 214
million years old, this impact occurred well before what has
become known as 'the TJ event'.







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   Mar > Mar 26

                Re: UFO 'Clone' Baby: First Pictures - McCoy

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@charter.net>
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 21:41:16 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 07:25:01 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO 'Clone' Baby: First Pictures - McCoy


 >From: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >To: <- UFO UpDates Subscribers - >
 >Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 1:59 PM
 >Subject: UFO UpDate: UFO 'Clone' Baby: First Pictures


Hello, all.

I tuly hate this, mainly due to the results of the cloning of
the baby - just like the now deceased Dolly the sheep. Born at
middle age, and soon to die. ("Blade Runner" anyone?)

Of course, if it is true.


GT McCoy







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   Mar > Mar 26

              Re: UFO Could Have Been Electrocuted Cat - Young

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 01:19:40 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 07:34:45 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Could Have Been Electrocuted Cat - Young


 >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >To: <- UFO UpDates Subscribers ->
 >Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 17:01:37 -0500
 >Subject: UFO UpDate: UFO Could Have Been Electrocuted Cat


 >UFO Could Have Been Electrocuted Cat

 >Experts say a reported UFO sighting in Norway was probably an
 >electrocuted cat.


With a flashy fuss of flaming fervor, a frisky feline is
furiously flung fifty feet forward in a frightful fit of
fabulous ferocity, its fiery fur flaming in a frazzled
fulmination as it frantically falls from the firmament in a
fantastic fashion, fearfully fizzling into a field like a
freakish flare with a fatal ferocity, the fiendish fiasco
seeming to be a figment of facetious folly.

The phenomenon fazes the fraught forefathers with great force
and frenzy, its fanciful yet foul fortune gains fame afar and
its fate fed to folklore of the fringe as we bid farewell to the
fraught feline with a fast funeral.


As you can see, I've got too much time on my hands.

   -- KY







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   Mar > Mar 26

              Re: Unusual Circular Cloud In Space Station Photo

From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 07:23:37 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 07:38:15 -0500
Subject: Re: Unusual Circular Cloud In Space Station Photo


 >From: David Thomson <dave@volantis.org>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 09:02:58 -0600
 >Subject: Unusual Circular Cloud In Space Station Photo

 >At

 >http://www.spaceweather.com/

 >there is a feature photo of an aurora taken from the ISS in
 >January.  In the lower portion of the photo is a huge
 >circular cloud ring. Does anybody have insights as to what
 >this cloud ring might be caused from?

Hello Dave,

I was looking at that image yesterday on the Science @ NASA site
(click on Space Station Astrophotography link from the page you
gave) and the caption for that image states:

"Auroras over Canada with the Manicouagan impact crater in the
foreground. Clouds and Earth's surface are illuminated by
moonlight. 'Here in the same picture we have two interesting
space phenomena: asteroid impact damage on the surface of Earth
and auroras,' notes Pettit."


Best wishes,

John Hayes

webmaster@ufoinfo.com

UFOINFO:- http://www.ufoinfo.com

Official Archives for UFO Roundup, AUFORN Australian
UFO Reports and Experiences, UFO + PSI Magazine
plus archives of Filer's Files, Oz Files, UFO News UK
and UFO Sightings Italia.







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   Mar > Mar 26

                        CI: Unofficial Mission Patch

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 17:37:58 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 07:45:38 -0500
Subject: CI: Unofficial Mission Patch


Cydonian Imperative
3-26-03

Unofficial Mission Patch Captures Drama of Manned Mars
Mission
by Mac Tonnies

See: http://www.mactonnies.com/cydonia.html (page 37)


Digital artist kenn brown, a frequent contributor to "Wired"
magazine, has crafted a photorealistic mission patch to be worn
by hypothetical astronauts in 2012. The spacecraft depicted in
the patch appears to be nuclear-powered, possibly a variation of
the "Orion" pulsed nuclear blast propulsion concept.

[image]

Image courtesy kenn brown.

I like this patch's sense of palpable verisimilitude.
It's time for the real thing.

-end-







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   Mar > Mar 26

                            Gulf Breeze Pictures

From: Ben Holland <removed>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 19:59:51 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 08:02:38 -0500
Subject: Gulf Breeze Pictures


I thought you might like to read both of these.

http://benholland.8k.com

http://benholland.8k.com/COMMENTARY%20ON%20BARBARA%20BECKER%27S%201990%20PAPER%2
0ENTITLED.htm

I hope these documents will shed some light on how all or most
the photographs that appear in Ed Walter's Gulf Breeze Sightings
book can be repeated by anyone without the knowledge of double
exposure or tampering with the original negative.


All the best,

Ben Holland






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   Mar > Mar 26

                 Re: Historical Artwork & UFOs Site - Cuoghi

From: Diego Cuoghi <diegocuoghi@spamcop.net>
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 14:43:15 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 09:42:50 -0500
Subject: Re: Historical Artwork & UFOs Site - Cuoghi

 >Following the success of my site set up December 2000, I have
 >now had my site revamped and is now at:

 >http://www.ufoartwork.com


Hello, I recently updated my web pages about the discussion
"Art and UFOs? No thanks, only art..."

Parts 1 and 5 are in English:

http://www.sprezzatura.it/Arte/Arte_UFO_eng.htm

In particular in Part 5 I talk about "Madonna and Child with
infant Saint John", the so called "Madonna with UFO":
http://www.sprezzatura.it/Arte/Arte_UFO_5_eng.htm


Diego Cuoghi

--

http://www.diegocuoghi.com







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   Mar > Mar 26

                          Filer's Files #13 -- 2003

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 08:45:21 EST
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 09:50:17 -0500
Subject: Filer's Files #13 -- 2003

FILER'S FILES #13 -- 2003 Skywatch Investigations.
George A. Filer, Director Mutual UFO Network Eastern
March 28, 2003,  Majorstar@aol.com Webmaster: Chuck
Warren -- My website: www.Georgefiler.com
Sponsored by: www.filer.unfranchise.com

WORLDWIDE UFO SIGHTINGS CONTINUE

The purpose of these files is to report the UFO eyewitness and
photo/video evidence that occurs on a daily basis around the
world and in space. Sun may be causing global warming. This
report includes worldwide sightings: Massachusetts cigar hovers
overhead, Connecticut- rectangular with tripod like legs, New
York - two flying triangles spotted over reservoir, Pennsylvania
- oval shaped object with rotating multiple colors, Florida -
  small black object slowly moves in various directions, Ohio -
  sphere appeared and moved very fast, Wisconsin flying triangle,
Illinois -- flying triangle oval bright white oval-shaped flying
object, Missouri - UFO photographed with Polaroid, California -
  greenish glowing disk, Washington - strange noises, Canada -
  snow machines stop by V shaped craft, South Africa - daylight
disk light hovering at great altitude There is strong Sunspot
activity and solar flares that is likely to cause heavy winds
and satellite interruptions on Earth. Australia - moving bright
light changes direction suddenly. New Zealand - a disc was to
be seen at sunset.

CNN NEWS IS REPORTING IRAQI UPRISING

BASRA -- On Friday, March 21, 2003, the air war began with
coalition forces launching attacks on Iraq. On Tuesday, March
25, CNN reports civilians in the city of Basra are attempting a
popular uprising against Iraqi soldiers. British forces have
surrounded the city and are firing on Iraqi military positions
during a major sandstorm.  Allegedly Iraqi soldiers are firing
mortars against Iraqi civilians conducting the uprising. There
is a report of food and water shortages in Basra, the second
largest city in Iraq. It is hoped a similar popular uprising
will occur throughout the country to bring the war to a quick
conclusion and minimum casualties. Military personnel have been
ordered into battle and the events of the past few days bring to
light the courage, bravery and sacrifice of our forces, to
protect us all from tragedy, and to free millions of innocent
people from tyranny. In less than a week coalition forces have
crossed the border and moved almost 200 miles to positions 50
miles from Bagdad. I thank them for their commitment and
strength and pray for resolve and perseverance that our victory
will make the entire world a better and safer place.

SUN CAUSING GLOBAL WARMING

In what could be the simplest explanation for one component of
global warming, a new study shows the Sun's radiation has
increased by .05 percent per decade since the late 1970s. The
increase would only be significant to Earth's climate if it has
been going on for a century or more, said study leader Richard
Willson, a Columbia University researcher also affiliated with
NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies. The Sun's
increasing output has only been monitored with precision since
satellite technology allowed necessary observations. Willson is
not sure if the trend extends further back in time, but other
studies suggest it does. "This trend is important because, if
sustained over many decades, it could cause significant climate
change," Willson said. In a NASA-funded study recently
published in Geophysical Research Letters, Willson and his
colleagues speculate on the possible history of the trend based
on data collected in the pre-satellite era. That does not mean
industrial pollution has not been a significant factor, Willson
cautioned. "Solar activity has apparently been going upward for
a century or more. Thanks to SPACE.com

MASSACHUSETTS -- CIGAR HOVERS

CHELMSFORD -- On March 14 , 2003, the witness was looking in the
sky and saw an unusual object. You can see it at a 4 o'clock
direction from the moon now at 6:10 PM! It looks like a bright
cigar that does not move. It is staying in the same position
but the witness was able to get a picture. Thanks to Peter
Davenport

CONNECTICUT -- RECTANGULAR WITH TRIPOD LIKE LEGS

LITCHFIELD -- The witness observed from his car a large
rectangular object with three rows of lights flying closer and
closer towards his house. He states, "The craft had three
tripod like legs that were also illuminating a white light that
proceeded closer and closer to our house." It then made a quick
turn to the right, and looped around to the left. It then
hovered above a pine tree top for few a seconds and then just
disappeared. There was no sound of any kind. It was mind
blowing. Witness describes self as having a job, which involves
considerable responsibility. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC

NEW YORK -- TWO FLYING TRIANGLES

BOICEVILLE --Last Friday night, March 21, 2003, my mate returned
a bit unnerved from her drive passing along a road with a clear
view of the Ashokan Reservoir in Olive, NY. She reports that
she observed two black flying wedges (triangular) with unusual
light configurations. What particularly struck was the silence
of their flight and even more so the seemingly impossible
SLOWNESS of the craft. This was between 8:30 and 9 PM. It is
likely others also saw the craft. Since this is a distant
source of New York City water, the primary road across the
reservoir was closed to traffic at the start of the Iraqi
invasion. I don't subscribe to the "aliens" scenario but I hope
this was somehow helpful. Thanks to GA

PENNSYLVANIA -- OVAL WITH ROTATING MULTIPLE COLORS

HOLLIDAYSBURG -- At 11:30 PM, the witness reports seeing a
hovering object in the West on March 14, 2003. The object was
first seen by the witness' brother, who phoned and then came
over three minutes later. The witness, her brother and her
husband saw a bright light. The object was oval shaped with
beautiful bright rotating lights of purple, red, yellow, orange,
green, and blue. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. I got
so excited I had an asthma attack. I couldn't stay outside. My
brother stated, "It broke off into three small orbs but the
original remained and they all hovered around and became one
again." The color of the small ones was orange. My brother
shined a high powered light at the object and flashed five
flashes three times. The fourth time he flashed six times, and
the lights of the UFO flashed off and on. It was almost as
though they were signaling back and then it zoomed away. And
then four planes were flying in the area. Well, now I believe
in UFOs because I saw one. (NUFORC Note: We suspect the
witnesses may have been looking at the star, Sirius, which is
very colorful. It would be in the southwestern, and western, at
the time indicated. PD)

FLORIDA -- SMALL BLACK OBJECT SLOWLY MOVES

MIAMI BEACH -- On Friday morning, March 14 , 2003, at 6:45 AM,
two friends and myself were watching the sunrise on the beach.
  It was a nice clear morning, but off the coast to the east
there was a giant thunder cloud looming. There was a
spectacular lightning show going on inside the clouds. We
watched for a few moments when I noticed a small black dot that
seemed to hover just outside of the storm. There were no
visible lights coming from the craft. I expected to see
flashers if it was a plane or helicopter but there was nothing.
  The black dot was slowly moving south with the dark gray cloud
as a backdrop. The black dot did not seem to be going away or
coming toward us for it stayed constant. Venus was very bright
and just to the right of the clouds in the clear sky and served
as a good reference point for the objects direction of flight.
  The object moved south until it appeared directly below Venus,
where the object slowly changed direction and went straight up
toward Venus. Then it turned north in a perfect line with Venus
and hovered above the clouds, like it was observing the storm.
  The object moved very slowly, so we watched for 15-20 minutes
as the black dot moved from the backdrop of the cloud to the
backdrop of the sunny sky. If it was a plane it would have
disappeared out of sight or flown over our heads, and I couldn't
imagine a helicopter being much different except for its
hovering ability. This object did not get smaller or larger,
but it was definitely a long distance away. Thanks to Peter
Davenport NUFORC

OHIO -- SPHERE APPEARED AND MOVED VERY FAST

PIQUA -- A sphere shaped UFO was seen at the Upper Valley JVS in
Piqua, Ohio at about 2:30 PM, on March 15, 2003. The craft was
spherical and very shiny flying at an elevation of about 2000
feet. It hovered in one spot for about four minutes and then
shot off eastbound suddenly. Minutes later it returned at a
lower altitude moving slowly in circles. Visual contact was
lost when I had to enter a building. Thanks to Peter Davenport
  NUFORC

WISCONSIN -- FLYING TRIANGLE

MADISON -- Joel N. was visiting a friend who was using his 16X70
binoculars for stargazing and was checking out Jupiter at 10:30
PM. I was talking about how I could see Saturn earlier in the
evening when I suddenly saw six dim reddish lights in a "V"
formation moving slowly from the south. Three on one side and
three on the other. I said to my friend "What the hell is
that?" He started to say "That's an airplane." when he realized
there was absolutely no sound, the lights were not flashing and
it was way too close and large to be an airplane. At arm's
length it was just smaller than my hand. It disappeared
suddenly. He must have gotten a slightly better look at it than
I did. He said it never changed pace or direction. At first we
both decided that it must have been a flock of birds reflecting
red light from the city. We agreed that the speed and formation
of the dim reddish lights were perfect the whole time and most
likely rectangular shaped. I found an article about the
possibility of a secret Military "Stealth Blimp" that could
match the description. I looked at a drawing taken from Popular
Mechanics Magazine of what this secret aircraft could look like
and it's amazingly close to what we saw. There is a military
airbase nearby, so perhaps it is a secret aircraft. Thanks to
UFO Wisconsin  http://www.ufowisconsin.com/

ILLINOIS -- FLYING TRIANGLE AND OVAL OVAL-SHAPED UFO

WINFIELD -- Last night at 8 PM, while pulling his car into the
parking lot of the Behavioral Health Services Building on March
14, 2003, the witness noticed three flashing entities coming
down in front of his car. He noticed more dropping out of the
sky until there were several. They were mostly red, flashing
white lights, that had no visible wings. They did not make a
sound, and some had blue and aqua lights. The witness states,
"Some were triangular, some cigar-shaped, and some like a small
box with four perpendicular lights." I brought several people
out of the building, and we all watched this phenomenon by 11:30
PM. Also, during the time I was watching, a bona-fide
helicopter with multicolored lights flew over. A few, but not
all of these objects, left a contrail. I have spent seven years
in the air force, and I know what aircraft look and sound like.
  These were not conventional aircraft. I called 911, and a
Winfield police officer responded and watched them with me
replying that he could not shoot them down, and that this was
beyond local jurisdiction. The lighted objects also spat out
balls every once in a while that also flew.

LINDENHURST -- The witness who describes himself as having
considerable technical training and experience reports he
observed a bright white oval-shaped flying object in the night
sky on March 11, 2003. I noticed it in the corner of my eye,
and when I looked up it flew out of sight at 9:30 PM. It was
flying in a NW to SE direction. It was unlike an airplane that
gradually dims from view, and it just disappeared into thin air.
  NUFORC

MISSOURI -- UFO PHOTOGRAPHED WITH POLAROID

ST. LOUIS ZOO -- I was at the zoo on March 8, 2003, at 1 PM,
about 50 feet away from the entrance holding a Polaroid instant
camera towards the sky. My uncle hit the button that takes the
picture and when the picture came out and developed, we noticed
the UFO. There was no noise, lights or anything unusual going
on that day in the sky. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC

WASHINGTON INVESTIGATION OF JUDGES PHOTOS

SPOKANE -- Judge Ed has taken a series of spectacular UFO
photos. Kathlene A writes, "I tend to be a skeptic. I have
talked with him on the phone and he seems down to earth. I am
not sure why a judge would open himself up to public scrutiny
knowing it could affect his career, if he did not believe there
was something there. "So I guess he does feel he has something
very important." He also told me he has been fascinated and has
studied aircraft for many years. Spokane Is part of the 'old'
continent and contains a lot of uranium and radon gas. Its
ironic that about a year ago Lujan Wong, a scientist from a
university in New York, experimented with going faster than the
speed of light using a derivative of radon gas. Could there be
a connection? We keep planning on meeting with the Judge in
person and I will make a trip soon. Another point. I have
talked to some people up in the Deer Park area about things that
have been seen over the years. One farmer saw a definite UFO
when he was younger. His Dad and sister were pursued by one in
1965 down a dark country road in an isolated area called Blind
Valley. My friend had a "light" explode in the middle of the
night. It was one of those globes you touch and it puts out
streams where you touch. The people here are up early in the
morning and early to bed farming. But the skies are clear as
the altitude around the valley is about 2500 feet. In March
2001, I was in a car with two others when we were following a
red light silently traveling west and over the mountains. We
could not see the object but it was no more than 200 feet. Then
a very large black shadow went right over the car in the
opposite direction. I mean bigger than any barn owl. It was
very bizarre. I also have a report about two witnesses who saw a
Huge golden orb coming down toward a local mountain and back up
again. Thanks to Kathleen A

EDMONDS -- A pilot reports that he was returning from the beach
with his Golden Retriever when he saw two bright landing lights
coming towards him at 7:30 PM, on March 16, 2003. The craft was
flying northwest at a very low level only 200 to 300 feet above
ground level (AGL). They were about one mile away traveling
just above the tree level about 20 MPH. I saw three bright
lights and they were on the bottom corners of a black triangle
(about 100-150' to each side). I was standing in the middle of
a park, with the craft heading straight for me. At that moment,
I decided that I would not want to become an abductee statistic
and said out loud "I'm not ready for this!", so I quickly made
my way to the closest trees for some cover. I looked back and
it was gone. It was as close as 250 yards and traveling at
about 20 MPH with no sound. This happened about 5 miles south of
Paine Field - my home airport, with-in their Class D airspace.
  I have contacted Paine Field Airport Management and they are
researching their radar tapes and talking to the tower personnel
for that time period.

SPOKANE -- Mary reports, "At about 1 AM, there was an unusual
amount of activity on the west end of CDA Lake on March 10,
2003." I heard a deep low motor noise coming, almost like
something being dragged, but not screeching. As it grew louder,
and I felt my house humming with vibration, I found myself with
a smile on my face and a feeling of comfort, as I said to myself
,"Oh, it's just them." I am not sure if I saw the yellow lights
thru my windows or I felt a yellow warmth.  When I feel I am
being watched I am not afraid, and feel as though I am
protected. Monday night I felt as if I received a soothing
message to not be afraid of the impending war. I have seen the
light balls on occasion, but mostly during the day. Thanks to
Mary

CANADA -- SNOW MACHINES STOPPED BY 'V' SHAPED CRAFT

THUNDERBAY, ONTARIO -- I did not see this event but eye witness
accounts say that their snow machines stopped running when they
spotted this craft on March 11, 2003, at 3 PM. Other people
were saying that it was an orange fireball or comet that crashed
in the area known as Shabaqua Corners that is known for strange
events such as six or seven airplane crashes in the last ten
years. The witness states, I personally saw a craft which was
on the west side of Thunderbay, just above the airport. It did
not seem to move and hovered in one area. It was 'V' shaped,
red in color and it seemed to cloak itself, yet I could still
see the outline. It seemed to blend in with the clouds, but yet
I could still make out the 'V' shape. This went on for half an
hour until it seemed to cloak for the last time and I could not
make it out anymore. That was last year with my guitar player
after our band's gig at 3 AM. Directly in front of us was a
huge orange ball that was the size of my fist at arm's length.
  The best way I can describe this incident is, to say that if I
put my thumb up in the air behind the wheel of my car it would
be the size of the moon. I stopped at the 7-11 to buy something
to eat, and asked the worker to come outside and look at this
thing to make sure I wasn't seeing things. He as well as my
guitar player, saw this huge thing.  NUFORC

UFO SIGHTINGS IN MEXICO

CHIHUAHUA -- Roland Michel Tremblay writes, "Three times already UFOs came=

out of El Cerro del Pueblo Mountain near Chihuahua and the famous Zone of
Silence." The last sighting happened very recently and was witnessed by
most of the small village Villa Lopez. The mountain is one of the most
important deposits of barite, a barium bearing mineral that exhibits more
gravity than any other mineral with no metallic constituent elements with
the exception of uraninite. After some research we have discovered that
most UFO activities take place where barite/barium deposits exist. The UFOs=

appear to get out from the top of the mountain as if they travel through a=

wormhole or an inter-dimensional window. The barium could be what gives
them the necessary energy to accomplish this, as if the barite deposit was=

utilized as a huge superconductor to channel gravitational /
electromagnetic forces from the core of the earth. More and more witnesses=

are coming forward and now there are reports of travel in time to the year=

1645 and some sort of alien underground installations under the mountain El=

Cerro del Pueblo. Many sightings and other paranormal phenomena have been
reported, and it has been happening for more than 50 years. You can read
all my correspondence with the main witness Mr. Gonzalez Ponce at
http://www.crownedanarchist.com/elcerrodelpueblo.htm.
We are also looking for experienced investigators willing to go
there by their own means to see what they could find. If you
can talk about this case around you it would also be helpful as
we need to reach people who witnessed similar events. Please do
not hesitate to contact me. Thanks to Roland Michel Tremblay in
London, rm@crownedanarchist.com

VENEZUELA -- UFO LIGHT FORMATION VIDEO TAPED

CARACAS -- The witness spotted what he thought was some kind of
aircraft on March 13, 2003, but it was bright like a big star or
planet that disappeared in a blink at 1:25 PM. The witness
states, "I was watching the sky, which was clear, when suddenly
an extremely bright object appeared and moved very slowly." I
went to get my handy cam and taped it for two to three minutes,
but when I looked again to the sky it was gone. My mother and
sister were witnesses

CHILI -- UFOs REPORTED OVER SOUTH

PROVIDENCIA -- Several unidentified flying objects were reported
at noon by dozens of persons in the commune of Providencia,
Santiago. On March 20, 2003, the phenomenon remained over
Marchant Pereira Street for several minutes that vanished as
suddenly as it appeared. A group of lights hovered directly
over the city. Various witnesses to the phenomenon made it
known to Terra.cl's UFO channel. According to the witnesses,
the sighting involved a large circular object of intense
brilliance which was accompanied by other, lesser objects. Some
witnesses claim having seen up to seven such objects around it.
  UFO researchers received many phone calls shortly after the
event was recorded. Up to now, the authorities of the General
Office of Civil Aeronautics have not produced any explanations
for this event. Thanks to Scott Corrales Translation (C) 2003,
and PlanetaUFO

ENGLAND -- TEARDROP AND RED LIGHT

FAKENHAM, NORFOLK -- As my friend, and I were navigating some
sharp bends in the road on March 9, 2003, at 9:15 PM, we saw a
large bright red light about 100 feet in the air. It was
traveling slowly across the sky about a mile away, stopped, and
then seemed to dive to the earth changing its shape to a
cylindrical form. It was about 30 feet long and 15 feet wide.
  The light seemed to quiver but kept its shape and disappeared
when it reached the ground. The light was a very rich red set
against the dark night and was clearly visible. As we traveled
two miles further along the road, my friend saw a rod shaped
light of white/electric blue fly across the field to our left
and hover on the road about 18 inches above the ground. This
object was about 20 inches long. It appeared to be extremely
vibrant and clearly seen. It was motionless on the road when I
(the driver) saw it, and we seemed to drive straight through it.
  My friend saw the inside of the car momentarily light up as we
did so. This sparked off a great deal of thought and discussion
between us. We saw no further events the rest of the journey,
and we were none the worse for our experience.

SEA FRONT-- The witness was walking along the sea coast on March
11, 2003, at around quarter past eleven and he noticed it was a
particularly clear night so he sat down and watched the stars.
  The witness says, "About 11:23 PM, I noticed a silver object
with a blurry outline come towards the shore slightly above the
sea and stopped about 100 feet in front of me!" It was making a
deep buzzing sound, and beamed a light on me for about 10
seconds. I was paralyzed with fear so did not move. Then the
light went out and the spacecraft returned back across the sea.
  NUFORC

SOUTH AFRICA - DAYLIGHT DISK LIGHT AT GREAT ALTITUDE

PIETERMARITZBURG -- Highmoor Dam is situated at East Longitude
29=B034' and South Latitude 29=B025'. While watching two eagles
soaring overhead on March 13, 2003, at 9 AM, my wife noticed a
silver object shining in the sky directly overhead. She pointed
it out to me and asked what I thought it was. At first I
thought it was sunlight reflecting off a geostationary
satellite, although I had never seen this type of phenomena
before. The altitude of the shining disc was estimated to be
that of a satellite which is normally seen in the night sky. We
both viewed the stationery object for a few minutes before
sighting it through a pair of binoculars and it seemed to be
reflected light perhaps closer due to the magnification. After
about 15 minutes with absolutely no movement of the object I
decided to capture it on video with a telephoto lens. It was at
this moment when I needed the camera that the battery went flat,
hence no video. It would not have been of much use anyway as
all it would have shown was a dab of silver light against a blue
background. We both continued to look directly above. I was
using the binoculars and could see it clearly and started moving
in a westerly direction picking up speed as it went. I did not
take my eyes off the accelerating light, but said just follow
the binoculars. The object moved through a 90=B0 arc in
approximately 15 seconds where I lost sight of it behind some
bushes. I estimated its speed to be at least ten times faster
than the satellites I have seen. I observed it to accelerate to
a speed of some 270 000 km/p/h. I have always thought there
might be ET's out there and if you cannot give some form of sane
explanation to this one, then I am convinced I saw a UFO. Thanks
to Peter Davenport

PAKISTAN -- TRIANGLE WITH WHITE LIGHTS

FAISALABAD -- On March 15, 2003, at 1:35 PM, It was triangle
shape with white lights at each corner of it and a large red one
in the middle. I can't explain it because my English is not so
good. We had a party at home and had many people on the roof
talking to each other. The time was between 1 or 2 hours after
midnight. Suddenly my cousin Maria shouted. She was the first
witness who saw it.

AUSTRALIA -- MOVING BRIGHT LIGHT CHANGES DIRECTION

BROKEN HILL -- On March 12, 2003, the witness had a sighting at
8:20 PM, of a straight moving light in the southwest, that
suddenly changed direction to the east in a heart beat, almost
an instant turn. It then traveled straight for another one to
two minutes and changed from being as bright as a flashlight to
almost black. It almost vanished, but continued straight as I
lost sight of it in the direction it was going before it
vanished was towards Sydney. It was viewed by two other people
at the same time, since I got the neighbors out of there house
for it. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC

NEW ZEALAND - A DISC WAS TO BE SEEN AT SUNSET

I had taken several shots with my Digital Camera, on March 10,
2003, at 6 PM, on Sunset, and only noticed during the editing,
that something was amiss with one of the images. All the others
were perfect, except this one, where a disc is visible. Nothing
has been enhanced in anyway. The "disc" is mid/left hand of the
border and, can be seen with the naked eye.

SCIENTISTS HINT AT EXTRA DIMENSIONS

CHICAGO -- The concept of extra dimensions, dismissed as
nonsense even by one of its earliest proponents nearly nine
decades ago, may soon help solve seemingly unrelated problems in
particle physics, cosmology and gravitational physics, according
to a panel of experts who spoke at the recent American
Association for the Advancement of Science annual meeting in
Denver. "It doesn't happen often that you get a confluence of
ideas and experiments that come together and it's something that
obviously would change your whole way of looking at the
universe," said one Joseph Lykken, Professor in Physics at the
University of Chicago. Even though scientists lack direct
evidence of extra dimensions, "we have a number of hints from
experiments and theoretical ideas that make us think they're
probably out there. That's why we're so excited about looking
for them," Lykken said. On the theoretical side, string theory,
developed over the past two decades, requires that space-time
has extra dimensions if it is to include gravity. "It's just
built into the way that string theory works," Lykken said. But
extra dimensions may ultimately help explain these data
complications. "That standard model itself may be our biggest
hint that there's this world of extra dimensions," he said. New
experiments at Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory are
producing data that just don't fit the standard model, said
Maria Spiropulu an Enrico Fermi Fellow at the University of
Chicago. "We have things in the data that leave our mouths
hanging," she said. Whether extra dimensions or some other
phenomenon emerges to clarify these murky data, scientists seem
certain that they stand only a few years away from a scientific
revolution.

WHAT YOU SHOULD KNOW WHEN HIRING REAL ESTATE AGENT!

Learn how you can obtain the best real estate agent for selling
or buying a home. To get a free copy of this report e-mail me
at  Majorstar@aol.com

GET YOUR FREE E-MAIL ACCOUNT AT: www.filer.unfranchise.com

My web portal now offers a free e-mail account to people who
read Filer's Files. Most people check their e-mail several
times a day and my sight brings you the news, sports, business
news, and weather plus your own GoNowMail.Com account. Someday
you may need to send a Hallmark Card, flowers or a gift quickly.
  Its all here for your convenience at discount prices. Shop at
the Mall Without Walls with 100 stores. I phoned my mother, who
said she wanted perfume for her gift. We had two feet of snow
on the ground, so I looked up frangrance.com on my website. The
perfume she wanted was being sold at a 35% discount, that I
ordered with my Visa. Four days later she had the perfume she
wanted, and was very happy. There is a store for your every
special need, and you can qualify as a preferred customer for
many of these stores.

SCIENTIFIC STUDIES HELP YOU STAY YOUNG AND HEALTHY

Almost every week, I get letters from people who claim to be
suffering from what they call allergies or chemtrail illness
generated by mold, pollution, jet engine and auto emissions.
  Breathing in pollution of any kind causes free radicals to form
in your body that attack the healthy molecules setting off a
destructive chain reaction. If not stopped the free radicals
wreak havoc on our cells and our bodies causing many types of
illnesses. To stop this chain reaction you need antioxidant
nutrients such as Vitamins C, E, Beta-carotene and CoQ-10 and
Isotonix OPC-3.  Isotonix OPC-3 scientificstudies have
validated that these are the most powerful antioxidant free
radical scavengers know to man, and one of the greatest
discoveries in history. You can purchase Isotonix OPC-3 at the
Health and Nutrition Store for about a dollar a day. You can
lose weight Ephedra Free at:   lose weight  For the latest in
anti-aging technology and HGH enhancement, and to learn more
about the new science of anti-aging, and how to stop the clock
for a younger, sexier, happier you, go to:  Anti-aging,  and
for antioxidants use: Isotonix OPC-3

NEW JERSEY CONFERENCE

Pat Marcatillio is holding a UFO conference in Bordentown, NJ on
October 12 and 13 at the Days' Inn. Ingo Swann, David Jacobs,
Tom Van Flandern, Jim Moseley, Bruce Maccabee and others will be
speaking. Details are at--http://www.drufo.org.

MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative
reports subscribe to the MUFON JOURNAL. A MUFON membership
includes the Journal and costs only $35.00 per year. To join
MUFON or to report a UFO go to http://www.mufon.com/. To ask
questions contact MUFONHQ@aol.com or HQ@mufon.com. Mention that
I recommended you for membership.

Filer's Files is copyrighted 2003 by George A. Filer, all rights
reserved. Readers may post the COMPLETE files on their Web
Sites if they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and
list the date of issue. These reports and comments are not
necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON viewpoint. Send your letters to
Majorstar@aol.com. Sending mail automatically grants permission
for us to publish and use your name. Please state if you wish
to keep your name, address, or story confidential. CAUTION,
MOST OF THESE ARE INITIAL REPORTS AND REQUIRE FURTHER
INVESTIGATION.

Regards,

George Filer
www.Georgefiler.com








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   Mar > Mar 26

              Re: Unusual Circular Cloud In Space Station Photo

From: David Thomson <dave@volantis.org>
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 08:15:42 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 09:53:19 -0500
Subject: Re: Unusual Circular Cloud In Space Station Photo


 >From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 00:18:00 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Unusual Circular Cloud In Space Station Photo

 >Hi Ray, David,

 >Seems about right considering the AB is over Northern Canada.
 >It's actually an ice ring crater rather than the usual deep
 >crater with a ridge.

 >It has been thought previously that the impact which caused this
 >crater was responsible for the Triassic-Jurassic extinction
 >event, but scientists have pointed out that, at approx 214
 >million years old, this impact occurred well before what has
 >become known as 'the TJ event'.


Hi Don, Ray, John and others who responded,

Thanks for pointing out this was a crater. It has proved
enlightening with regard to its structure and timing. It is
interesting that this meteor crater is a candidate for marking
the boundary between the Paleozoic and Mesozoic.

I saw, after the fact, that this crater was described on the
NASA web site.

Dave






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   Mar > Mar 26

              Re: UFO Could Have Been Electrocuted Cat - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 10:19:29 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 09:55:34 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Could Have Been Electrocuted Cat - Ledger


 >From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 01:19:40 -0800
 >Subject: Re: UFO Could Have Been Electrocuted Cat

 >>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>To: <- UFO UpDates Subscribers ->
 >>Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 17:01:37 -0500
 >>Subject: UFO UpDate: UFO Could Have Been Electrocuted Cat

 >>UFO Could Have Been Electrocuted Cat

 >>Experts say a reported UFO sighting in Norway was probably an
 >>electrocuted cat.

 >With a flashy fuss of flaming fervor, a frisky feline is
 >furiously flung fifty feet forward in a frightful fit of
 >fabulous ferocity, its fiery fur flaming in a frazzled
 >fulmination as it frantically falls from the firmament in a
 >fantastic fashion, fearfully fizzling into a field like a
 >freakish flare with a fatal ferocity, the fiendish fiasco
 >seeming to be a figment of facetious folly.

 >The phenomenon fazes the fraught forefathers with great force
 >and frenzy, its fanciful yet foul fortune gains fame afar and
 >its fate fed to folklore of the fringe as we bid farewell to the
 >fraught feline with a fast funeral.

 >As you can see, I've got too much time on my hands.

 > -- KY

Hi Kenny,

It's obvious you are fond of the "F" word.

Don Ledger







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   Mar > Mar 27

                          Re: Gulf Breeze Pictures

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 11:05:08 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 07:13:29 -0500
Subject: Re: Gulf Breeze Pictures


 >From: Ben Holland <removed>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 19:59:51 +0100
 >Subject: Gulf Breeze Pictures

 >I thought you might like to read both of these.

 >http://benholland.8k.com

http://benholland.8k.com/COMMENTARY%20ON%20BARBARA%20BECKER%27S%201990%20PAPER%2
0ENTITLED.htm

 >I hope these documents will shed some light on how all or most
 >the photographs that appear in Ed Walter's Gulf Breeze Sightings
 >book can be repeated by anyone without the knowledge of double
 >exposure or tampering with the original negative.

Ben-

Proving that the photos could have been faked doesn't prove that
they were, and I had no doubt that they could have been faked
from the beginning.

But I'll admit that I was a bit concerned when a number of pop-
up ads appeared when I visited your web site.  A scan of my
system then showed that a number of "Tracking" cookies had been
uploaded to my computer, which had been cleaned of spyware
earlier today.


Steve







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   Mar > Mar 27

                          Secrecy News -- 03/26/03

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 14:48:13 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 07:15:26 -0500
Subject: Secrecy News -- 03/26/03


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2003, Issue No. 25
March 26, 2003


**      A NEW EXECUTIVE ORDER
**      ISCAP REPORTS ON DECLASSIFICATION
**      CHASING THE IRAQI NUCLEAR HOAX
**      NORTH KOREA AND NUCLEAR WEAPONS


A NEW EXECUTIVE ORDER

President Bush signed a new executive order on national security
classification policy that will defer the April 17, 2003
deadline for automatic declassification of millions of 25 year
old documents until December 31, 2006, while making a number of
other adjustments to the current classification regime.

Most remarkable, from Secrecy News' point of view, is what the
new order did not do:  It did not alter the basic structures of
declassification that were introduced by the Clinton
Administration and that have yielded around a billion pages of
declassified historical documents in the past seven years.

As previously noted, the order does include several changes
tending in the direction of greater secrecy.  These include a
presumption of classification for foreign government
information; expanded authority to reclassify declassified
information; new authority for the CIA to reject
declassification rulings from an interagency panel; and
elimination of the instruction to classifiers not to classify if
there is significant doubt about the need to do so.

As deplorable as these steps are, however, they seem unlikely to
have a major impact on disclosure policy.  Foreign government
information was already rendered statutorily exempt from the
Freedom of Information Act in the 2001 Defense Authorization
Act, so classifying it is gilding the lily.  Reclassification of
declassified information still requires a written finding from
an agency head, and so is unlikely to be carelessly or
frequently invoked.  As for the interagency panel, in almost
every one of the cases where it has voted to declassify CIA
documents, the CIA representative to the panel concurred in
declassification.  And the former injunction not to classify in
event of significant doubt was a rhetorical flourish that never
had operational meaning.

A deeper problem with the order is that it is predicated on a
hierarchical information model that no longer corresponds to the
way information is used inside and outside of government. In
practice, most useful information does not flow top-down in a
pyramid shape, but every which way in a network.  Imposing the
traditional classification structure on a webbed information
environment is a recipe for dysfunction.

A copy of the new order, signed on March 25, may be found here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/bush/eoamend.html

The transcript of a White House background briefing on the new
order is posted here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2003/03/wh032503.html

See also "Release of Documents is Delayed" by Dana Milbank and
Mike Allen, Washington Post, March 26:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A29446-
2003Mar25.html

and "Bush Orders a 3-Year Delay in Opening Secret Documents" by
Elisabeth Bumiller, New York Times, March 26:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/26/politics/26SECR.html


ISCAP REPORTS ON DECLASSIFICATION

The Interagency Security Classification Appeals Panel (ISCAP),
which is one of the Clinton-era innovations that has now been
endorsed by the Bush Administration, reports that it has chalked
up another year of eliminating unnecessary classifications that
would otherwise have gone unchecked.

The ISCAP is an executive branch body composed of
representatives of Justice, State, CIA, DoD and the National
Archives and supported by the Information Security Oversight
Office.  One of its principal functions is to consider appeals
from the public of declassification requests that have been
denied by one of the ISCAP member agencies.

Remarkably, the Panel has overturned original agency
classification decisions, and declassified the requested
documents partially or completely, in 76% of the cases it has
considered.  (This compares with a declassification figure close
to zero in similar challenges that are litigated in federal
court under the Freedom of Information Act.)

The ISCAP has a limited capacity -- it considered just over 100
contested documents in 2002 -- and it is not entirely exempt
from the mindless impulse to classify that leads to bad
decisions, but it is nevertheless an impressive bureaucratic
solution to an enduring bureaucratic problem.

The ISCAP's report on its activities in 2002 may be found here,
courtesy of the Information Security Oversight Office:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/advisory/iscap/iscap02.html


CHASING THE IRAQI NUCLEAR HOAX

One of many troubling features of the war in Iraq is the fact
that some of the evidence proferred by the United States
government to justify the war has proved to be fabricated and
false.

Documents purporting to show that Iraq sought to purchase
uranium from Niger are now known to be forgeries, raising
questions about the good faith of the Bush Administration, which
cited the claim in the State of the Union address, the
competence of U.S. intelligence agencies and, not least, the
identity and motives of the forgers.

Rep. Henry Waxman (D-CA) recently sent an eight page letter to
White House in an attempt to probe the meaning of this episode.

"It has become incontrovertibly clear that a key piece of
evidence you and other Administration officials have cited
regarding Iraq's efforts to obtain nuclear weapons is a hoax,"
wrote Rep. Waxman.  "This is a breach of the highest order, and
the American people are entitled to know how it happened."

See Rep. Waxman's March 17 letter here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2003/03/waxman.pdf

Jack Shafer wrote a series of items on media coverage and non-
  coverage of the matter in Slate.  See his "Follow That  Story:
The Nuclear Whodunit":

http://slate.msn.com/id/2080583

Seymour Hersh did his thing in the New Yorker this week.  See
"Who Lied to Whom?" here:

http://newyorker.com/fact/content/?030331fa_fact1


NORTH KOREA AND NUCLEAR WEAPONS

"If the United States discards its hostile policy against the
DPRK [North Korea] and discontinues making nuclear threats, we
will be ready to prove, through a separate verification between
the DPRK and the United States, that we will not make nuclear
weapons."

That's what North Korea said in a lengthy statement explaining
its decision to withdraw from the Nuclear Non-proliferation
Treaty.

The statement, which is coherent and rational and generally free
of cartoonish vitriol, suggests that it might be possible to
find a diplomatic solution to the problems posed by the North
Korean nuclear program.

See the January 21 statement, newly translated by the Foreign
Broadcast Information Service, here:

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/dprk/nuke/dprk012203.html

For related background, see "North Korea's Nuclear Weapons
Program" by Larry A. Niksch, Congressional Research Service,
updated March 17:

http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/crs/IB91141.pdf



_______________________________________________

Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.


OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood@fas.org
voice:  (202) 454-4691






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                       UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 13

From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 20:52:28 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 07:19:06 -0500
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 13


Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor.

<Masinaigan@aol.com>
==========================

       UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 8, Number 13
March 26, 2003
Editor: Joseph Trainor

http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/


MYSTERIOUS LIGHTS SEEN
IN SADDAM'S AREA 51

       On Wednesday, March 19, 2003, the war in Iraq opened
with two stunning Allied air strikes, one on a hideaway in
southern Baghdad used by Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein,
the other on the northern city of Mosul.
       However, eight hours before the cruise missiles hit
Mosul, strange lights were reported in the As-Zab as-
Shagir (Arabic for Little Zab--J.T.) river valley, located
about 72 kilometers (45 miles) west of Kirkuk and 88
kilometers (55 miles) south of Irbil.
       Kurdish militia known as Peshmirga (Kurdish for Those
who are ready to die--J.T.), who were on patrol in the
mountains east of the Little Zab valley, spotted unusual
flashing lights over the region.  "At nightfall (6:30 p.m.
Irbil time) the Kurdish fighters at the Dolabakra
checkpoint looked down toward the lights of Kirkuk, about
30 miles (48 kilometers) away."
       Some Kurds said the lights might be UFOs.  Others
insisted that "a lightning storm on the (western) horizon"
had "illuminated the sky.  Was it the start of bombing?
No one was certain."
       "An Iraqi anti-aircraft battery--perhaps six miles
(10 kilometers) away--opened fire."
(Editor's Comment: At a high-flying Allied spy plane?)
       The Little Zab River valley has been the subject of
much speculation since a retired U.S. military man spoke
on The Art Bell Show last December (2002) and claimed that
a saucer had crash-landed in Iraq either during the first
Gulf War in 1991 or Operation Desert Fox in 1998.
Persistent rumors in Irbil province claimed that Saddam
Hussein had granted the aliens sanctuary in Iraq.  The
aliens were said to be staying at an underground base at
Zarzi in the upper valley or at the millenia-old citadel
at Qalaat-e-Julundi, located on a lofty, easily-defended
promontory on a bend in the Little Zab River.  (See UFO
Roundup, volume 7, number 51 for December 17, 2002,
"Saddam's Area 51?" page 2.)
        "Then at about 9 p.m., a series of Iraqi flares was
fired.  Red tracer bullets" lit up the sky east of
Dolabakra.  "Rain returned.  All was calm again."
       "At a Peshmirga militia base three miles (5
kilometers) toward Irbil, the local (Kurdish) commander,
Yusaf Hassam Kader, held a midnight meeting with top
aides."  The militiamen wondered aloud if the U.S. Air
Force had raided Zarzi, but nobody really knew what was
going on or who the Iraqis had been shooting at.
       "'We will wait for the Americans,'" Kader said.
       "About four hours later (4:30 a.m., Thursday, March
20, 2003)--shortly before dawn--Kurdish radio reported air
strikes in Mosul, about 40 miles (64 kilometers) northwest
of Irbil."
       According to UFO Roundup's Middle East
correspondents, Al-Shabab Television in Iraq (which, by
the way, is owned by Saddam's son, Uday--J.T.) covered the
bombing raids in the north, which, they claimed, were
carried out by USAF B-52 bombers.  However, neither Zarzi
nor Qalaat-e-Julundi was specifically mentioned in the
broadcast.
       Saddam has a heavy concentration of military forces
in Irbil province, including the Iraqi Army's 5th Corps
headquarters, 7th Infantry Division, the al-Abed Infantry
Division, 1st Mechanized Infantry Division and 5th
Mechanized Infantry Division.
(See the St. Paul, Minn. Pioneer Press for March 22, 2003,
"Kurds ready to fight Saddam," page 15A; the Duluth, Minn.
News-Tribune for March 21, 2003, "The war begins: On the
move," page 5A, and "Northern front left to Kurdish
units," page 2S.  Many thanks also to Ayesha al-Khatabi
and Mohammed Hajj al-Amdar.)
(Editor's Comment:  While scanning newspaper reports, your
editor came across two items of interest: (1) A photo of
B-52s taking off from RAF-Fairford in UK for the long
flight to the Middle East, which was apparently taken
early on Wednesday.  And (2) a passing mention in USA
Today to something called Operation Bug Splat, which the
article described as some kind of "special software for
selecting targets."  I wonder...is that "Bug" as in "Bug-
Eyed Monster (BEM)," which is 1950s USA slang for
extraterrestrials or space aliens?  Was Operation Bug
Splat a kind of "piggyback mission," in which a wing of B-
52s left early to bomb Zarzi?)


THE SADDAM MYSTERY

       "President Bush had just three minutes left to decide
whether to approve Wednesday's mission to take out Iraqi
leader Saddam Hussein before the window of opportunity
slammed shut."
       "'Let's go,' Bush said, and the war that the world
had been anticipating and dreading for months was
underway.  In football terms, it was an audible --a last-
minute change of plans forced by changing circumstances."
       "Military planners had told the president they needed
a decision by 7:15 p.m." Washington D.C. time "or they
would miss the chance at their target."
       "And it was 7:12."
       "Intelligence officials had long been frustrated in
their attempts to track Saddam's erratic movements."
       "Then, on Wednesday," March 19, 2003, "according to
senior government officials, Iraqi informants produced a
lead.  The Iraqi leader, and possibly his two sons (Uday
and Qusay--J.T.), were said to be in a private house built
over an underground bunker in southern Baghdad."
       "What happened next, one senior administration
official said Thursday," march 20, 2003, "'has created one
of the great mysteries of the the first day of the war--
did we hit anyone, and if so, who did we get?'"
       "On Thursday night, officials were still holding out
hope that one of the 2,000-pound bombs and nearly 40
Tomahawk cruise missiles, each carrying 1,000 pounds of
explosive, may have killed Saddam or his sons."
       "'The preponderance of the evidence is he was there
when the building blew up,' said one senior U.S. official
with access to sensitive intelligence.  The official added
that Saddam's sons may also have been at the compound."
       "'He didn't get out beforehand,' another senior
official said of the Iraqi president."
       "Another administration official said 'there is
evidence that he (Saddam) was at least injured' because of
indications that medical attention was urgently summoned
on his behalf."
       "The mystery deepened as intelligence agencies
monitoring Iraqi communications detected a significant
drop in intercepted communications among Iraq's top
leaders.  Some officials speculated that Iraq's leadership
had gone underground; others believed that, as one
official put it, 'their phones melted.'"
       Compounding the mystery was the fact that Saddam
Hussein was not seen by the Iraqi public for nearly 20
hours after the initial Allied airstrike.
       "While U.S. intelligence monitored Iraqi government
communications and movements Thursday to pick up signs of
Saddam's fate, the administration's attention was focused
on the (first) television appearance by Saddam in which he
stated Thursday's date and made reference to the "dawn"
and an attack by the United States."
       "Experts at the Pentagon, the CIA, the State
Department and other U.S. agencies scrambled to analyze
the mustachioed man's earlobes, his thick glasses, his
voice and speech patterns, the folds of his military
uniform, the way he sat, even his badly dyed hair."
       On Friday, March 21, 2003, following the Iraqi
leader's second photographed public appearance, the CIA
announced that it was indeed Saddam in the first
videotape, which was aired on Al-Jazeera and other cable
TV news outlets.
       But others aren't so sure.
       Also on Friday, Saddam's former mistress of 15 years
told a French TV crew that the man in the first videotape
"is an actor made up to look like Saddam."
       "My Iraqi friends tell me that opinion is deeply
divided," UFO Roundup correspondent Ayesha al-Khatabi
said, "Many people do not think it was Saddam on the
video, and they wonder where he was all day Thursday.  The
black glasses he wore were very distracting and prevented
the viewer from seeing his eyes.  My aunt saw the video on
TV in Amman (Jordan).  She said it was an actor named
Jafaar al-Mahmoudi whom she says was on a romantic drama
(soap opera--J.T.) twenty years ago."
       "Contact with Iraq is sporadic with (because of) the
war," she added, "I can almost tell when the coalition is
bombing because if I am talking to friends in Baghdad, my
cell phone begins to shriek.  Is this the HAARP project I
read about?"
(Editor's Comment:  It's possible, Ayesha, but I think
it's just the NSA jamming those particular frequencies.)
       Mohammed Hajj al-Amdar reported that Iraqis are
marvelling at their leader's "miraculous escape" from the
targeted Tomahawk missile.
(Editor's Comment:  Love him or hate him, Saddam Hussein
has pulled off the most spectacular dodge since July 20,
1944, when Adolf Hitler escaped the time bomb that was
planted in his Wolfsschanze bunker by Col. Klaus Schenk
von Stauffenberg.)
       "Saddam was at the safe house with several senior
officers and a squad of Anim  al-Khass (Saddam's "Secret
Service" or bodyguards--J.T.)  They are all from Tikrit
and are related to him by blood or marriage.  Someone in a
black beret was taken out on a stretcher after the
building collapsed.  I heard it was one of Saddam's
doubles.  He has 18 such doubles, who take his place at
public events, as he is so fearful of assassination."
       "In Baghdad they speak of doubles.  In Irbil, they
talk of clones!  They say the Zarzi aliens are making more
at their underground base."
       "There are even rumors that the aliens saved Saddam.
While the American cruise missile was enroute to Baghdad,
so the story goes, the aliens appeared in the meeting room
and warned Saddam of the danger.  Then the aliens shined a
strange light at the wall.  A circle of light was created,
brilliant white with golden streaks rotating from top to
bottom anticlockwise ( counter-clockwise in the USA--
J.T.).  Saddam stepped into the light and vanished.  Then
Uday, then Qusay, three Anim al-Khass men and finally the
little aliens.  Then the light itself disappeared.  The
missile hit the house before the others could flee."
       "If this market tale is true, then it might explain
why nothing was heard of Saddam for nearly a day.  Saddam,
his sons and the aliens could have emerged from the
teleportation circle in Zarzi.  From there, it is half a
day's drive west over rugged mountain roads before you
even reach the highway, and from there it is another 80
kilometers (50 miles) south until you reach Tikrit, the
nearest place with a television studio.  Saddam was unable
to issue a TV broadcast on Thursday.  This is why the
Saddam double in Baghdad put on those ridiculous glasses
and made that speech.  The Friday (videotaped) broadcast
shows the Saddam everyone knows."  (See the Duluth, Minn.
News-Tribune for Friday, March 21, 2003, "Saddam's fate a
'mystery,' page 3S.  Many thanks to Ayesha al-Khatabi and
Mohammed Hajj al-Amdar for the commentary.)


YELLOW-ORANGE UFO SEEN
IN MEXICO's VERACRUZ STATE

       On Saturday, March 8, 2003, at 6:30 p.m., "a yellow-
orange UFO was sighted by Cynthia Saavedra and other
witnesses in the city of Xalapa, in (Mexico's) state of
Veracruz.  Srta. Saavedra reported that the UFO 'was
brilliant and luminous, with an equally luminous jet
emerging from the tail.'"
       "Srta. Saavedra and the witnesses had the object in
view for 10 minutes before it disappeared from their
sight.  A short while later, it was followed by 'a second
object of similar characteristics' which was 'accompanied
by a small brilliant orange sphere.'  Up to 15 people in
Xalapa witnessed the unusual phenomenon."
       Xalapa is 37 miles (59 kilometers) northwest of the
seaport city of Veracruz.  (See NotiOVNI for March 16,
2003.  Muchas gracias a Daniel Munoz para eso informe.)



       Well, that's it for this week. Join us in seven days
for more UFO, Fortean and paranormal news from around the
planet Earth, brought to you by "the paper that goes home-
-UFO Roundup."  See you next week.

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2003 by Masinaigan Productions, all
rights reserved.  Readers may post news items from UFO
Roundup on their websites or in news groups provided that
they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list
the date of issue in which the item first appeared.

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or use the Sighting Report Form at:

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   Mar > Mar 27

                           Rutherglen UFO Mystery

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 12:48:31 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 12:48:31 -0500
Subject: Rutherglen UFO Mystery



Source: The Rutherglen Reformer - Lanarkshire, Scotland

http://www.inside-scotland.co.uk/lanarkshire/reformer/NEWS/sighting.html.html

Rutherglen UFO Mystery


In true X-Files fashion it's a case that Mulder and Scully would
love to get their teeth into.

And it has prompted a witness appeal by the Glasgow UFO Research
Organisation (GUFORO).

They want to know - "Have you seen strange objects in the
Rutherglen sky?"

Their UFO experts are following up a reported sighting of a
"classic flying saucer-shaped" object in the sky on June 14 last
year.

A 74-year-old Burnside woman and her friend reported seeing a
large burning object in the clear summer skyline, just before
6pm that Friday.

UFO researchers have not been able to provide a rational
explanation for the incident, and are appealing for anyone who
saw something to come forward.

In a written statement to GUFORO, the Burnside pensioner said:
"I was driving in my car when I first saw the object I am going
to try to describe to you.

"My friend was talking to me when I interrupted her, and asked
her to look up at the sky and tell me what she saw.

"The object we saw was very high in the sky and looked like one
massive ball of fire hurtling towards Earth.

"As it came down it appeared to change shape from a ball to what
now looked like a large plane on fire, coming down nose first."

The fiery object appeared to have smoke billowing from it, and
the friends watched as it continued to come down.

It now appeared to be the shape of an upside down T, and it
seemed to elongate as it fell, starting to resemble a burning
jumbo jet."

The witness continued: "It had now three plumes of smoke coming
from it.

"The object had come down so far my friend and I thought it
might crash."

But the biggest mystery was about to happen.

"My friend and I watched in total disbelief as the object
vanished, leaving my friend and I saying `Where did it go?',"
she continued.

"This all happened on a clear cloudless afternoon at about
5.55pm.

"The object did not go behind buildings or trees, it was still
too high in the sky for that.

"It had just disappeared in the blink of an eye."

GUFORO have ruled out astronomical explanations for the
sighting, including a meteor that was passing Earth at the time.
They have also contacted various authorities, such as local
police and Glasgow Airport's air traffic control, but still
cannot explain the sighting.

GUFORO researcher Jim Robertson said: "We are looking for
witnesses who some to come forward.

"We will treat all calls as confidential.

"What is unusual in this case is the age of the witness, and the
shape of the object, coupled with the fact it seemed to be on
fire."

Anyone with information on this or any other sighting can
contact the GUFORO 24-hour hotline on 07763 323743.

The GUFORO was formed in 2000, to conduct and promote research
into UFOs and related phenomena.

For more information, visit their website at:

www.geocities.com/guforo2000



[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]










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   Mar > Mar 27

                How Can Humanity Decode Alien Transmissions?

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 12:52:10 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 12:52:10 -0500
Subject: How Can Humanity Decode Alien Transmissions?



Source: Space.Com

http://www.space.com/searchforlife/seti_artificiality_part3_030327.html

How Can Humanity Decode Alien Transmissions?

By Seth Shostak
Senior Astronomer, SETI Institute
posted: 07:00 am ET
27 March 2003

Editor's Note: This is Part 3 of a 3-part series on
artificiality.

Sorting deliberate signals from a gush of cosmic static requires
discernment. It's somewhat akin to beachcombing: finding the
occasional bauble on a shoreline littered with dead seaweed,
desiccated crustaceans, and other unappealing, sea-borne dross.

Radio SETI experiments do this by hunting for narrow-band
signals, in which much of the transmitter power has been crammed
into a bit of spectrum that's 1 Hz or less in width. Such
signals are not only very easily noticed, they are also markedly
different from the wide-band splatter of quasars, pulsars, and
other cosmic broadcasters. Narrow-band signals are, in other
words, "artificial." (Official disclaimer: it's possible that
there exists some still-undiscovered, natural astrophysical
phenomenon that could produce narrow-band signals. While finding
such a phenomenon might not chill the spine to quite the same
low temperature as finding E.T., it would still be tremendously
interesting, and probably worth tenure at your local institution
of higher learning.)

Optical SETI experiments use a different criterion for
artificiality: they search for short, intense photon bursts. If
you turn a moderate-size telescope in the direction of a star
many dozen light-years distant, and then measure how much light
arrives in a very short interval - say, a billionth of a second
- you will typically count no more than one photon. But if it
transpires that you measure a few dozen photons piling into your
scope in that brief time slice, you will certainly have found
something highly artificial: presumably a laser pulse shot your
way by extraterrestrials with a yen for contact.

So the SETI criterion for artificiality is this: Narrow-band
signals in the radio, and brief photon bursts in the optical.

Fine. Such signals would tell us that the aliens are out there.
But what about the message?

As we've remarked in the previous articles in this series, a
narrow-band radio signal is like a single note on a flute:
obvious, but not interesting. Well, suppose you decide to switch
such a radio tone rapidly on and off, to encode some sort of
pithy messages. This will spread the transmitter power over a
wider piece of the dial (think of the "music" made by your
computer modem), and the resulting signal at any specific
frequency will be weaker, and therefore far more difficult to
detect. Indeed, many transmissions that we produce on Earth
(including the cell phone calls that both keep you in touch and
may be cooking your brain) are deliberately engineered to be
wide-band, to maximize security and minimize interference. Such
signals are hard to find unless you are privy to the encoding
scheme or work for the phone company.

So how do we reconcile easily found, narrow-band signals with
E.T.'s presumed interest in conveying information? After all,
there seems little point in constructing a transmitter with
interstellar reach if it does no more than send a dull, empty
signal.

One possibility is that E.T.'s wide-band, information-rich
message will lie in the same part of the band as the narrow-band
"beacon," forming a type of composite broadcast that's similar
to our own television signals. In this case, having found the
beacon, we can hope to corral the wide-band message by simply
erecting a larger antenna that will make it detectable. Note
that this antenna might be thousands of times the size of the
one that bags the initial discovery, and consequently many, many
years may elapse between finding an alien signal and getting the
message (let alone understanding it). This is just one more case
in which Hollywood's view of SETI diverges from scientific
reality.

Another possibility is that the beacon may have some slow code
that "points" to the message by indicating where it is on the
dial. In this case, the narrow-band signal is an electromagnetic
buoy that would tell us where to dive deeper to find the real
treasure.

What about snagging the message from an optical signal? Since
this approach looks for short flashes of light, you might think
that we could get E.T.'s bountiful bit-stream right away: all we
would need to do is write the incoming pulses to a hard disk,
and then examine them at leisure to search for patterns that
would contain the profound insights of distant beings.

Can we do that? The experiment being run jointly by the Lick
Observatory (University of California, Santa Cruz) and the SETI
Institute, which uses a telescope with a 1 meter diameter
mirror, is looking for short (one billionth of a second) bursts
of light coming from the directions of nearby stars. But the
equipment can only record information about incoming pulses at a
rate of ten times a second. If E.T. sends his encyclopedia our
way at a speed of tens of millions of bits per second -
  something that could be easily done on a beam of light - then
the Lick system will be too slow to sort it all out. It would be
akin to flipping through "Moby Dick" at fifty pages a second:
you would know there are words flying by, but the subtleties of
Melville's prose might elude you.

"It's true we wouldn't get all the bits," notes Rem Stone, a
research astronomer at the Lick Observatory. "We can't record
that fast. But we would know that something is going on right
away." Put differently, the researchers would note that words
are flying by. And then? "We could speed up our sampling by a
factor of ten or a hundred essentially overnight. In a few
weeks, we could do even better by cobbling together new
hardware."

There's no doubt that, whether that first discovered signal is a
radio tone or a light burst, there would be tremendous incentive
to move beyond the detection and find whatever message
accompanies it. For light flashes pinging our planet, that might
not take very long. Indeed, as Rem Stone says with a smile in
his voice, "you can bet that we would do that real fast."



[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]





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   Mar > Mar 27

             Budd Hopkins' NYC UFO Seminar Announcement - 04-03

From: Ifinfo1@aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 22:05:31 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 12:55:09 -0500
Subject: Budd Hopkins' NYC UFO Seminar Announcement - 04-03


Intruders Foundation Seminar Series Announcement

UFOs AND THE NATIONAL SECURITY STATE:
THE LAST 30 YEARS -
PRESENTED BY RICHARD DOLAN

Saturday, April 5, 2003

The Intruders Foundation is honored to welcome noted UFO author,
researcher and historian, Richard Dolan, who will offer a
preview of his next book, which addresses UFO phenomena and
cover-ups over the past thirty years.

His presentation will include accounts of military encounters
with UFOs from the mid-1970s onward, including the serious over-
flights of Air Force bases in 1975, cases from the late 1970s,
1980s, and in particular the wave of triangle sightings over
Belgium, Britain, the U.S., and elsewhere.

Dolan will also discuss developments in military aircraft,
seeking to answer the question of how much of the modern UFO
phenomenon can be attributed to classified terrestrial
technology.=C2  Finally, he will discuss secrecy developments in
contemporary society, describing the difficulties and
opportunities involved in obtaining true UFO disclosure.

Additional commentary will be provided by Budd Hopkins, and as
always, the Intruders Foundation welcomes interaction from the
audience.


REGISTRATION & INFORMATION

The seminar will be held on April 5th at the meeting rooms of
A.R.E., on the 10th Floor of 150 W. 28th Street, New York, NY.=C2
  The price of the seminar is $30 for non-members and $20 for
members of IF, seniors, and students.=C2  Reservations must be
made by telephone at 212-645-5278, and will be filled on a
first-come, first-served basis.=C2  Payments must be made in
advance to secure the reservation.=C2  Make checks payable to the
Intruders Foundation, P.O. Box 30233, New York, NY 10011.=C2  Only
50 reservations will be accepted.

On-street parking is generally available in the neighborhood.=C2
  The seminar will begin at 7:30 PM and end at 10:30 PM.=C2  Doors
open at 7:00 PM.=C2  There will be a half-hour intermission,
during which light complimentary refreshments will be served.=C2
  A book table will offer books, videotapes, and other material
for sale to those interested.=C2  For additional information, call
IF at 212-645-5278.

Hope to see you there!

----------

The Intruders Foundation Seminar Series is presented in the interests of
open-minded scientific learning and the free exchange of research, ideas,
and theories.=C2  IF makes no specific claims or endorsements regarding any=

materials, views, or subject matter presented by our guests.

----------

Want to know more about Budd Hopkins and his nonprofit scientific research=

organization, as well as past and future IF events?=C2  Please visit our
website=E2=C7=A6

Intruders Foundation Website:=C2  www.intrudersfoundation.org

----------






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   Mar > Mar 27

              Re: UFO Could Have Been Electrocuted Cat - Gates

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 00:54:18 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 12:56:41 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Could Have Been Electrocuted Cat - Gates


 >Source: Ananova

 >http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_764488.html


 >UFO Could Have Been Electrocuted Cat

 >Experts say a reported UFO sighting in Norway was probably an
 >electrocuted cat.

 >People in Lardal reported seeing a fire ball explode in the
 >night sky and fall slowly down to earth.

Great Balls of Fire, a shocking, just shocking UFO report.

Lets see, how would the song go:

You raise my fur and shock my brain
Getting to the tranformer drives a cat insane
I touched the wire, what a shock
Goodness, gracious, Great Balls of Fire

Better yet "A whole lot of shocking going on..."

 >But investigators think they've solved the mystery after the
 >charred body of a cat was found at the foot of an electrical
 >mast.

Poor cat, went out in a flame of glory that made the media.


Cheers,

Robert







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   Mar > Mar 27

                     Re: Gulf Breeze Pictures - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 01:50:54 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 12:59:08 -0500
Subject: Re: Gulf Breeze Pictures - Maccabee


 >From: Ben Holland <removed>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 19:59:51 +0100
 >Subject: Gulf Breeze Pictures


 >I thought you might like to read both of these.

 >http://benholland.8k.com

 >http://benholland.8k.com/COMMENTARY%20ON%20
BARBARA%20BECKER%27S%201990%20PAPER%20ENTITLED.htm

 >I hope these documents will shed some light on how all or most
 >the photographs that appear in Ed Walter's Gulf Breeze Sightings
 >book can be repeated by anyone without the knowledge of double
 >exposure or tampering with the original negative.

In the article referred to above Mr. Holland has suggested that
the "glass reflection method" (GRM) was never considered as a
possible explanation for the Gulf Breeze photos of Ed Walters.
Holland states, "Okay, first of all no one has mentioned the
following procedure in anything related to the Gulf Breeze
photographs. If you have seen this method mentioned elsewhere
please point it out to me but at the moment it appears that I am
the first to bring it up."

In an earlier correspondence several weeks ago with Mr. Holland
I pointed out that I had discussed this at the 1988 MUFON
symposium along with other potential methods for hoaxing.
Moreover, I pointed out to him that a reporter and professional
photographer at the TV station Pensacola had, in fact, used the
GRM to create photos that are similar to some of Ed's first
photos.

Ed loaned his camera to the reporter so that they could do the
experiments with the actual camera that took the UFO photos.
(Rather gutsy thing for a hoaxer to do, by the way.... to let a
TV reporter "discover" how the photos were faked!) The reporter
and photographer discovered that the method was cumbersome to
say the least and that there was bleed-through of the sky image
into the UFO model image. The results of their experiments were
shown on TV in June of 1988. Hence Mr. Holland was not the first
to think of the GRM.

The GRM requires that the photo of the background scene be taken
with the camera looking through a piece of flat, clear glass.
The orientation of the glass is adjusted so that the reflection
(in the glass) of a small lighted model at some short distance
(say, 10 feet) from the glass, and usually nearly behind the
photographer (but could be to one side), is lined up with a
chosen location in the background scene. Thus to the
photographer, and to the photo itself, it appears that a "UFO"
is in the scene. A dark mask can be placed on the side of the
glass that is closest to the background scene (the side away
from the camera) to block light from the background where the
model reflection appears. If this is not done the image of the
reflection will have background scene light added to it. That
is, without the mask background light will "bleed through" the
desired reflection of the model. This is called the masked glass
reflection method.

(MGRM) As Mr. Holland has pointed out the "nice" thing about the
GRM is that the picture is WSYWIG (what you see is what you
get.). The not-so-nice thing about the GRM is that you need an
illuminated model and you need a sizeable piece of glass and
supports for the glass and model at location of the background
scene.

Mr. Holland has claimed that "every single picture of the UFO
published in Ed's first book can be replicated to look EXACTLY
(his emphasis) the same using the method outlined" (i.e., the
GRM or MGRM). Whereas this may be technically true, it does not
mean that Ed used this method to take any of his pictures. In
particular, there were pictures in the presence of others who
would have immediately realized what was happening. He couldn't
have fooled members of his family who were present for several
of his photo sessions. But more importantly, in three sightings
discussed in paper presented by Holland, there were non-family
witnesses who certainly wouldn't have been fooled. The first of
these was the sighting when Duane Cook, the editor of the
Sentinel, was present. If the photo obtained during this
sighting had been created by GRM, then Cook certainly would have
seen the model and the glass outside the truck (and could hardly
have missed Ed setting up the model and the glass). In fact, the
whole event was videotaped by Duane with no stopping of the
video, so Ed's ruse would have been obvious from the video.

The second photo event that couldn't have been created at the
scene and at the time of the alleged sighting by the GRM is the
March 17 stereo photo event. In this case numerous other
witnesses were in the vicinity at the time of the photos (they
saw the flash go off) and they immediately rushed to the area
where Ed was. They certainly would have noticed a lighted model
beside or behind the camera and a large piece of glass in front
of the camera.

The third multiple witness event which Holland suggested could
be a GRM is the January 8, 1990 sighting which included two
photos by Ed and two by other (non-family) witnesses. There is
no way Ed could have created a GRM hoax without the several
other witnesses just "happening to notice" that he had a big
piece of glass suspended above the camera (all witnesses agreed
that the UFO was overhead and the camera was pointing upward)
while there was a small illuminated model below the camera near
the ground.

In the case of the stereo photos by the Nimslo stereo camera the
parallax showed a distance of at least 40 ft and the image size
corresponded to a 2.5 ft object at that distance. There was no
background visible, so there was no point in using the GRM. If a
fake, it was faked with a 2.5 ft model.

In the case of the May 1 stereo photos taken with the "SRS"
camera, which had a two foot spacing between the lenses, the
problem for the GRM is not the creation of an image. The
problem for the GRM to explain (which is the same as the problem
for the simple double exposure - SDE - method) is to take two
side-by-side (stereo) pictures that show the correct parallax to
yield the 2.5 ft size of the Nimslo type image that appears in
those photos, even though the parallax puts the object 130 some
feet away (over the water of the Santa Rosa Sound). In other
words, although it would be possible to create the images using
the GRM, it woudl require calculations beyond Ed's ability in
order to determine where to place the images on the film to get
the correct amount of image shift between pictures (the images
are not at exactly the same locations in the left and right
photos, hence parallax).

Near the beginning of his article Mr. Holland has the following
statement: "I would like to point out that Dr. Bruce Maccabee
has mentioned time and time again that he believes that the
photographs may have been faked...." (but not by the SDE
method). Evidently Mr. Holland has misinterpreted what I have
said. I have, "time and time again" said that the pictures
probably could have been faked using one or more of several
methods (such as the SDE, the GRM or the full sized model
method). However, I have not said that I believe they "may have
been faked." In fact, after due consideration of all the
factors involved in these sightings I have said "time and again"
that I believe the photos were NOT faked. In other words, from
the technical point of view they probably could have been faked,
given enough time, knowledge, technical ability, equipment,
desire and money. This is not, however, to say that they were
faked.








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                              To Mars By A-Bomb

From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 15:22:13 -0300
Fwd Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 07:20:27 -0500
Subject: To Mars By A-Bomb


Spurce: BBC-On-Line

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/documentaries/features/mars-a-bomb.shtml

To Mars By A-Bomb

Wednesday 26 March 2003 9pm-10pm; rpt 1.10am-2.10am;
Thursday 27 March 7pm-8pm; 10.30pm-11.30pm;
Saturday 29 March 8pm-9pm

The extraordinary yet true account of a secret US government-
backed attempt to build a spaceship the size of an ocean liner
and send it to Mars, Jupiter and Saturn, propelled by thousands
of miniature nuclear bombs.

Beginning in 1958 Project Orion ran until 1965, employing some
of the best scientists in the world, including the brilliant
British mathematician and physicist Freeman Dyson. "Freeman
Dyson is one of the few authentic geniuses I've ever met", says
Arthur C. Clarke. "Orion isn't crazy. It would work. The
question isn't whether we could do it, but whether we should do
it".

The film uncovers a contemporary angle to Project Orion. Arthur
C. Clarke states that today's generation are once again serious
about going to Mars and that NASA has once more become
interested in similar nuclear technology as used by Project
Orion in the early 60s.

The film has exclusive interviews with Ted Taylor, who ran The
Project Orion and who is also the most legendary nuclear weapon
designer of all time; and Freeman Dyson who is one of the
greatest theoretical physicists and mathematicians that has
lived this century.

Clarke talks about how he originally wrote the screenplay for
Space Odyssey 2001 and he describes how he referenced The
Project Orion and its use of nuclear explosives within the plot
of the screenplay. However by the time it came to filming, the
nuclear references were dropped as Stanley Kubrick had become
very anti-nuclear bombs and his special effects team were unable
to come up with an idea as to how to visualise the actual impact
of the technology.









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                       Control of Iraq's 'ET Heritage'

From: Colin Stevenson <colin@c2k2.fsworld.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 18:21:21 -0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 07:33:51 -0500
Subject: Control of Iraq's 'ET Heritage'

Source: Exopolitics Site

http://www.exopolitics.org/Study-Paper3.htm

Extracts from:

The Secret Race To Control Iraq's
Extraterrestrial Heritage
Published March 27, 2003
Copyright Dr Michael E. Salla


The possibility that ET technology lay hidden in Iraq, which had
a level of sophistication far advanced to whatever had been
reverse engineered by recovered ET craft since 1947, would have
made gaining unfettered access to Iraq a crucial policy goal for
US based clandestine organizations. This would have been
accentuated if it was confirmed that the home world of the
Anunnaki would be soon be returning to the Earth's vicinity of
the solar system. The existence and location of these ancient ET
sites, which in most likelihood had been discovered by the
Iraqis in the 1980s as a result of their extensive underground
construction projects, was also possibly known by those states
who had long provided technical assistance to Iraq: Russia,
France and Germany. US based clandestine organizations were
therefore at a relative disadvantage to their European
partners/rivals in gaining access to this ET technology.

The election of the second Bush administration meant that the
agenda of clandestine US organizations for gaining access to
Iraq's ET heritage could resume. Many former officials from the
first Bush and earlier Republican administrations supporting
regime change in Iraq were appointed in the new administration.
As a result of their association with the Department of Defense,
many if not all of these would have been familiar with
clandestine activities to reverse engineer ET technology and the
true reason motivating regime change in Iraq

On March 5 an unusual amount of seismic activity had begun
occurring around the planet. (31) While much speculation
surrounded the cause and seriousness of these seismic anomalies,
it is worth exploring whether the anomalies were caused by
advanced weapons technology that was either being tested or
extensively used around the planet. The existence of advanced
weaponry that could produce seismic activity, volcanoes and
severe weather conditions was publically acknowledged by a
speech given by former Secretary of Defense, William Cohen, in
1997, where at a conference discussing the threat posed by
global terrorism he said: "Others [terrorists] are engaging even
in an eco-type of terrorism whereby they can alter the climate,
set off earthquakes, volcanoes remotely through the use of
electromagnetic waves..."

In the context of heightened tension and uncertainty following
the US led invasion of Iraq, the following policy
recommendations can be made to help navigate through the
dangerous times ahead.

- Full public disclosure of the ET presence in human affairs and
the historical role played by different ET's in their
interaction with humanity.

- Full disclosure of all astronomical data that can confirm
whether a tenth planet to the solar system exists that has an
orbit of approximately 3,600 years.

- Full public disclosure of reverse engineered or ET based
technology currently possessed by clandestine organizations is
immediately required.

- An UN mandate for administrating a postwar Iraq in order to
ensure cooperation and consensus among major powers over how
Iraq's ET heritage is used is benefit all humanity.

- Appointed officials in clandestine organizations need to be
fully accountable for their actions and policy to their
respective national legislatures and/or executive branches of
government.

- Executive and/or Congressional oversight of US based
clandestine organizations is required to ensure these
organizations operate within guidelines that are consistent with
the constitutional procedures and societal values.

In the present political climate where the Bush administration
appears intent on a unilateral foreign policy supported by a
small number of loyal allies, there is likelihood of increased
global conflict given the threat posed by US clandestine
organizations gaining a strategic advantage over their European/
Russian rivals. If predictions that the home world of the
advanced race of ETs described by Sitchin is soon to reappear
are accurate,

These are extracts. More here:

http://www.exopolitics.org/Study-Paper3.htm

Kind Wishes

col







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                 Shell Games Inside Roswell's UFO Henhouse?

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net>
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 15:45:51 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 07:38:21 -0500
Subject: Shell Games Inside Roswell's UFO Henhouse?


"UFOIA - UFO freedom of information and accountability - should
be the rule rather than the exception; that the reverse remains
true tells us more about national INsecurity than it does about
'national security.'" - Larry W. Bryant (Jan. 28, 2003)

Is the BLM Fox A-playin' Shell Games Inside Roswell's UFO Henhouse?

By Larry W. Bryant

Buried deep within the multihundred-page package of documents
furnished me a few months ago by the Office of Contract
Archeology at the University of New Mexico rests, a la a
miniature Ark of the Covenant stored in that memorable end scene
of "Raiders of the Lost Ark," a one-page excerpt from the
several dozen Grid Excavation Record sheets compiled during last
fall's Roswell "skip site" dig project on the Foster Ranch (now
known as the Bogle Ranch), located about 32 miles southeast of
Corona, N.M. - a document seemingly offering itself up as
either a smoking gun or a wild goose (take your pick).

The header section of this particular record sheet bears the
date 9/22/02. Its hand-written entries originate from Study Unit
No. 9. The grid points are listed as "N-1905" and "E-2003.6."
And the all-important datum "Field Specimen (FS) Number" is 23.
At the lower-left section of the sheet appears a preprinted
"Sample Checklist," whose last item reads: "Other (HMUO [which
stands for Historic Materials of Uncertain Origin])." Two
entries apply for that item, and the form's "Notes" section
describes them as follows:

"Soil Sample is dark/ . . . [illegible continuation of line]. 1
Unknown from level 1 [i.e., the level close to the surface of
the ground, signifying a soil depth of from 0 to 10
centimeters]. Very small sample of thin-fine-wirey, tough-
strong-LIGHT material. It iridesces colors in the sunlight. (It
looks like spider-webby.) Middle layer of level 1.

"1 Unknown from lower layer of level 1. Small sample of a brown
papery material - inside THAT was some more of unknown above.
(Unable to catch that - it floated away.)

"Soil type is very dark, very damp & NUMEROUS course bits of
stone - (fractured limestone)."

Now, let's add this (unwittingly?) low-key revelation to another
verbal gem excavated from the OCA-UNM documentation package:
"[from a Vu-Graph printout labeled "RESULTS"] - Both
conductivity and metal detection anomalies discovered and
tested; origin remains uncertain. Some as-yet unidentified
HMUO's recovered." (Incidentally, one of the more-poignant
photo-copied glossy photos from the fieldwork records bears the
caption "John and Nancy Easley Johnston beginning SU13 at metal
detection anomaly.")

Next, we can put these findings into perspective by backtracking
to the following paragraph excerpted from the OCA "Archeological
Testing Plan for Foster Ranch Project":

"The volunteer excavators [like the Johnstons], their
supervisors, and the project director will keep detailed notes
on test unit stratigraphy and any recovered artifacts and FS
numbers using standard OCA grid excavation forms, and all units
will be given a unique study unit number. In addition, plans and
profiles of all units will be photographed - and drawn as well
where deemed necessary. All recovered artifacts - both Native
American and extraterrestrial - will be entered into a field
specimen catalog, with each unique horizontal and vertical
provenience (e.g., grid coordinates, 5cm level and natural
stratum) receiving a unique field specimen (FS) number. Where
possible, locations of specific artifacts and other features of
interest within individual excavation units will be measured and
recorded to the nearest centimeter. Examples of standard OCA
excavation forms are attached."

A 3-paragraph addendum to the testing plan announces the
following fait accompli: "All soil samples and non-natural
materials recovered in the course of the test excavations were
transferred to a locked security van at the end of each day. At
the end of the project, the materials were transferred to a lock
box at the Wells Fargo Bank in Roswell."

And finally, we arrive at the end of the beginning - with the
following paragraph No. 11 excerpted from the "New Mexico Bureau
of Land Management Cultural Resources Use Permit (Special
Conditions for Excavation Permits (8152)":

"Permittee shall submit an artifact catalogue to the BLM
District and/or Area office within six (6) months after
completion of fieldwork. Permittee shall transfer all artifacts,
samples, and collections, as applicable, and copies of all
records, data, photographs, and any other documents resulting
from work conducted under this permit with the curatorial
facility named in the permit within one (1) year after
completion of fieldwork. The permittee shall submit an updated
artifact catlogue, that includes the curatorial facility's
accession number(s), to the BLM District and/or Area office
within 15 months after completion of fieldwork." ("All
artifacts," eh? "Transferred" to BLM custody - and, maybe, sent
to some government warehouse to repose alongside that mystic Ark
of the Covenant?)

Having come full circle in this paper chase, I now embark on
Phase II (or is it III or IV?) - via the following FOIA request
to BLM officials:

"Your agency's acceptance of the University of New Mexico's
archeological testing plan for its September 2002 Roswell/Corona
'skip site' excavation project was conditioned, in part, on the
following excerpt from your use permit: 'Permittee shall submit
an artifact catalogue to the BLM District and/or Area office
within six (6) months after completion of fieldwork.'

"Now that the 6-month deadline has passed, I hereby ask that,
under provisions of the U. S. Freedom of Information Act, you
furnish me a copy of the above-cited 'artifact catalogue,' along
with a copy of (1) all transmittal correspondence/reports
related thereto; and (2) all BLM-generated records pertaining to
the receipt, evaluation, and dissemination of said catalogue."








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                  Meteor Showers Rocks On Midwestern Homes

From: Chaz Stuart <Daydisk2@webtv.net>
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 00:11:57 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 07:57:14 -0500
Subject: Meteor Showers Rocks On Midwestern Homes


Source: The Las Vegas Sun

http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/text/2003/mar/27/032704470.html


March 27, 2003 at 18:35:42 PST

Meteor Showers Rocks on Midwestern Homes
By Rick Callahan
Associated Press

INDIANAPOLIS (AP) - The midnight sky flashed an eerie blue early
Thursday over four Midwestern states as a meteorite exploded in
the atmosphere, sending rocks as big as softballs crashing
through some houses.

Residents in Illinois, Indiana, Ohio and Wisconsin reported
seeing the disintegrating meteorite flash across the sky about
midnight. Police were soon deluged with reports of falling rocks
striking homes and cars. Chris Zeilenga, 42, of Beecher, Ill.,
said he and his wife, Pauline, were watching TV war coverage
around midnight.

"The sky lit up completely from horizon to horizon. We've seen
lightning storms, but this was nothing like that," he said. "A
minute or so later the house started rumbling and we heard all
these tiny particles hitting the house."

Outside his home about 30 miles south of Chicago, Zeilenga found
tiny gray and black pieces of stone. He didn't realize their
origin until he heard people talking about meteorites as he rode
the morning train to work in Chicago. "When I heard that I
thought, 'That's what it was!'" Kenneth and Karen Barnes of Park
Forest, Ill., told WGN-TV in Chicago they were sleeping when a
5-pound meteorite crashed into their living room. Thursday
morning their son spotted a hole in the ceiling. "I didn't know
what to think, so we went looking through the house for it and
found it," Kenneth Barnes said.

Commander Mike McNamara of the Park Forest Police Department
said about 60 pieces of space rock ranging from gravel-sized to
softball-sized were brought in to the police station.

He said three homes in Park Forest were damaged, along with the
fire department and possibly one car. Two homes in the nearby
town of Matteson also were struck by meteorite pieces.

Paul Sipiera, a professor of geology and astronomy at Harper
College in Palatine, Ill., spent Thursday examining dozens of
pieces of meteorites and plotting where they fell. The largest
he saw was about 7 1/2 pounds. He said the debris field appears
to cover a path about 80 miles long by 20 miles wide from north
of Bloomington, Ill., to Chicago's south side and possibly part
of northwestern Indiana.

He said all of the pieces came from a stony meteorite he
estimates was about the size of a Volkswagen bug when it
exploded as it plunged into Earth's atmosphere.

A spokesman for the U.S. Strategic Command in Omaha, Neb., said
the defense installation was not tracking any manmade space
objects in the area at the time that the light show appeared
over the Midwest. Sipiera said it's very rare for meteorites to
fall on populated areas. "For me, it's a dream come true," he
said. "I always tell my wife that when I die, I hope I get hit
in the head by a meteorite flying through
the roof and it came pretty close," he said.


--








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                        Big UFO conference In Brazil

From: A. J. Gevaerd <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 06:43:56 -0300
Fwd Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 08:01:19 -0500
Subject: Big UFO conference In Brazil


Dear folks:

We have a coming conference on UFOs in south of Brazil, with the
presence of 4 Americans, Dr. Roger Leir, Astronaut Brian
O'Leary, Professor David Jacobs and Author Bob Pratt. Over 20
Brazilian speakers will be presenting.

Please check out:

http://www.infinitetv.com.br/sorteio/informacoes_congresso.htm

Next September, we will also have The Second World Ufo Forum,
with 30 international and 30 Brazilian UFO researchers. Please
wait for annoucement.


All the best,

A. J. Gevaerd







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                Raelians Want Hotel In Brazil to Clone Babies

From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr>
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 12:52:18 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 08:05:02 -0500
Subject: Raelians Want Hotel In Brazil to Clone Babies


To All,

Following my message on the French life of Rael, my friend A.J.
Gevaerd has sent me the following information on Rael in Brazil,
and he has given me his permission to transmit it to you.

Gildas Bourdais

_______________________________________________


Thanks for the info, Gildas.

Rael is already in Brazil as was signing books last week in Sao
Paulo. Very few people attended. See the enclosed photo by
doctor Luciano Stancka, our co-worker.

Also, very few people listen to him here. Most of them from his
own sect. Nobody takes R=E4el seriously when he claims he wants to
talk to president Lula. As a matter of fact, he as been subject
of several jokes since he arrived here. People in Brazilian UFO
community is kidding him by saying that he came to Brazil to
make a partnership with Urandir Fernandes de Oliveira, our local
great hoaxer, largely known for his lies and tricks. It would
certainly be funny to see both guys together. One fakes
abductions and the other fakes clones.

As I wrote you before, Urandir is getting bigger and stronger,
with more elaborate hoaxes and more colorful story of
abductions, strange marks in the bed sheet and ceiling, crash of
UFO close to his farm, animals and trees destroyed by aliens etc
etc etc. All a set of hoaxes carefully designed to deceive even
skilled researchers and journalists. But very few have believed
in them, fortunatelly.

All the best,

A. J.









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                          Secrecy News -- 03/28/03

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 10:21:55 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 16:21:31 -0500
Subject: Secrecy News -- 03/28/03


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2003, Issue No. 26
March 28, 2003


**      FOIA V. FISA
**      WHAT MAKES DISCLOSURE SUSTAINABLE?
**      MOYNIHAN AND SECRECY
**      THE VICE PRESIDENT'S CLASSIFICATION AUTHORITY
**      IN THE NEWS


FOIA VS. FISA

The proper boundaries of secrecy in domestic surveillance
activities are the subject of an important Freedom of
Information Act (FOIA) lawsuit brought by the American Civil
Liberties Union (ACLU), the Electronic Privacy Information
Center (EPIC), and other groups.

In particular, the plaintiffs are seeking information about the
impact of the USA Patriot Act, which increased government
surveillance authority under the Foreign Intelligence
Surveillance Act (FISA).

"The Patriot Act's surveillance provisions effect a dramatic
expansion in the government's ability clandestinely to monitor
people living in the United States, including citizens who are
not suspected of contravening any law or of acting on behalf of
a foreign power," the ACLU and EPIC state. "The public is
entitled to know how the DOJ is using the vast surveillance
powers that the Patriot Act authorizes."

Accordingly, the plaintiffs are requesting "aggregate,
statistical data and other policy-level information that, if
disclosed, would allow the public to evaluate the new powers
conferred by the Patriot Act and the manner in which the
government has used them." They stress that they do not seek
"records pertaining to particular terrorism or criminal
investigations [or] other information that could plausibly
jeopardize national security."

A March 21 legal memorandum filed by David Sobel of EPIC and Ann
Beeson, Jameel Jaffer and Arthur B. Spitzer of the ACLU spells
out their argument with clarity and vigor:

http://www.epic.org/privacy/terrorism/usapatriot/foia/sj-memo.pdf

The opposing argument that even the most general information
sought by the FOIA requesters would threaten national security
is presented by James A. Baker of the Justice Department Office
of Intelligence Policy and Review:

http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/doj/fisa/baker.pdf

Other selected case files and document releases may be found
here:

http://www.epic.org/privacy/terrorism/usapatriot/foia/


WHAT MAKES DISCLOSURE SUSTAINABLE?

What are the conditions under which information disclosure
policies attain their intended policy goals? Why do some
disclosure policies thrive and others stagnate and fail?

That is the subject of an interesting new academic paper
entitled "The Political Economy of Transparency: What Makes
Disclosure Policies Sustainable?" by Archon Fung, Mary Graham
and David Weil of the Institute for Government Innovation at the
Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University.

The authors examine several cases of information disclosure
policies that achieved differing levels of success in areas such
as nutritional labeling, investment risks, toxic releases, and
so on in an effort to model "the dynamics of transparency
policies."

They identify a range of factors that can contribute to
successful transparency, some of which are obvious (e.g.,
information must be "conveyed in a manner that is readily
interpretable by end users") and others that are less so (e.g.,
"The more that significant groups of disclosers benefit from
releasing information, the more improvement one can expect in
the system.")

The authors do not specifically address national security
secrecy and disclosure, but some of their conclusions can be
readily extrapolated to that arena. For example, one could infer
that the Central Intelligence Agency would be more likely to
accept routine disclosure of the intelligence budget if the
Agency were persuaded that such disclosure would make future
reductions in intelligence spending more politically difficult -
- which is probably true.

"The Political Economy of Transparency" by Fung, Graham and
Weil, 56 pages, March 2003, is available here:

   http://www.innovations.harvard.edu/research/papers/FGW.pdf


MOYNIHAN AND SECRECY

Daniel Patrick Moynihan devoted more time to thinking about
government secrecy than any other elected official. Senator
Moynihan, who died this week, made it respectable in elite
circles to acknowledge official secrecy as a problem and, at
least in the abstract, to criticize it.

Moynihan's own interpretation of secrecy was idiosyncratic and
not entirely reliable.

He made much of the supposed fact that in the late 1940s Gen.
Omar Bradley decided to keep the Venona intercepts of Soviet
communications secret from President Truman. But the document he
cites as proof does not say what he claims it says, a point that
eluded many reviewers. (See Moynihan's book "Secrecy: The
American Experience," Yale Univ Press, 1998, at pp. 70-72).

Senator Moynihan instigated and chaired the Commission on
Protecting and Reducing Government Secrecy which issued a
weighty report in 1997. The Commission membership could not have
been more highly placed and influential including, aside from
Moynihan, a sitting Director of Central Intelligence (John
Deutch), the White House Chief of Staff (John Podesta), and the
ultra-Conservative Senator Jesse Helms.

And yet the actual influence of the Commission's report was nil.
Its legislative recommendations were incrementally reduced to
nothing more than the creation of an advisory committee with no
independent authority, designated the Public Interest
Declassification Board, which was finally established in statute
in the Intelligence Authorization Act for 2001. In a final
insult, the membership of the Board was never named and so it
has never met.

Nevertheless, the Report of the Commission on Protecting and
Reducing Government Secrecy still stands as a tribute to
Moynihan's commitment to this problem and it remains an
outstanding introduction to the subject. A copy is posted here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/library/moynihan/index.html


THE VICE PRESIDENT'S CLASSIFICATION AUTHORITY

President Bush's new executive order 13292 on national security
classification, contrary to some reports, does not substantially
alter the Vice President's classification authority.

It is true that the new order amends the definition of "original
classification authority" to explicitly include "the Vice
President in the performance of executive duties." This has led
some observers to conclude that Vice President Cheney has now
been given classification authority he did not previously
possess.

In a well-meaning editorial critical of the new Bush order, the
New York Times said that "for the first time, it gives the
vice president the power to classify information." See
"Secrecy: The Bush Byword," New York Times, March 28:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/28/opinion/28FRI3.html

This is an error. The Vice President has long had Top Secret
original classification authority, including the power to
delegate that authority to others.

See this 1995 Presidential Order designating the Vice President
and other senior officials as "original classification
authorities":

http://www.fas.org/sgp/clinton/oca.html


IN THE NEWS

New scientific studies shed light on the genetic makeup of the
anthrax bacterium, prompting the latest round of discussions as
to whether such research poses a security threat and whether it
should be published. The decision in this case was made in favor
of publication, reports William J. Broad in "Key to Strains of
Anthrax is Discovered," New York Times, March 27:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/27/international/worldspecial/27ANTH.html

Polygraph testing is not going away. "Life scientists who work
on sensitive government projects could find themselves hooked-up
to polygraph machines in spite of continued criticism of the
science behind such lie-detector tests," writes Peg Brickley in
"Pseudoscience applied to scientists," The Scientist, March 26:

http://www.biomedcentral.com/news/20030326/01/

"Without robust, reliable access to government information,
members of the public cannot function intelligently as citizens,
cannot meaningfully participate in the policy process and cannot
adequately evaluate the performance of their elected
representatives or hold the government institutions
accountable." Or so I opine in "The Bush Administration's
Suffocating Secrecy" in the weekly Forward, March 28:

http://www.forward.com/issues/2003/03.03.28/oped1.html



_______________________________________________

Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:  www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email: saftergood@fas.org
voice: (202) 454-4691






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               Re: Meteor Showers Rocks On Midwestern Homes -

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 10:47:50 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 16:23:41 -0500
Subject: Re: Meteor Showers Rocks On Midwestern Homes -


 >From: Chaz Stuart <Daydisk2@webtv.net>
 >Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 00:11:57 -0500 (EST)
 >To: virtuallystrange@virtuallystrange.net
 >Subject: Meteor Showers Rocks On Midwestern Homes

<snip>

 >http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/text/2003/mar/27/032704470.html

<snip>

Hi everyone!

The flag of the City of Chicago contains four red stars. The
second star represents the Great Chicago Fire of October 1871.
 From eyewitness accounts at the time, it is now accepted that
Chicago and other communities in neighbouring states were
simultaneously destroyed by such a "falling star". Yes, there
have been other much more powerful and more recent celestial
attacks by Nature, but this was the first time that a large
American city was destroyed in such a way.

This most recent bombardment of Chicago from space, although a
much smaller celestial attack, reminds us just how frequent and
real the threat from space is to life on Earth. Just last summer
a small asteroid exploded over the Mediterranean Sea. The
explosion was as powerful as the blast of a nuclear bomb. If
this object impacted with Earth just a couple of hours earlier,
it would have exploded over the Pakistan-India border and
considering the heightened tensions between these two countries
at that time, it could have triggered a nuclear war and resulted
in millions of casualities.


Nick Balaskas







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                   NIDS Hiring Additional Scientist-Deputy

From: Colm Kelleher <nids@anv.net>
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 07:58:22 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 16:25:16 -0500
Subject: NIDS Hiring Additional Scientist-Deputy


NIDS Seeking Deputy Administrator


NIDS is seeking to hire a person with a strong biology,
chemistry or biophysics/biochemistry background (MS preferred)
with experience in the aerial phenomenology field to oversee
day-to-day research and public outreach operations at NIDS. Must
have some "wet" lab experience. To gain an idea of NIDS research
please peruse the NIDS web site (http://www.nidsci.org). The
candidate will have excellent personal skills and will be a team
player.

The deputy administrator will report to the NIDS administrator
(Colm Kelleher) and to the NIDS CEO. Experience in research
management, particularly the ability to manage contract research
projects, is a plus. Knowledge of forensic techniques and
methodology is desirable.

Salary will be commensurate with experience and qualifications.

Interested applicants can fax their CV and cover letters care
of: Dr. Colm Kelleher, 702-798-1970 or email to nids@anv.net. No
telephone calls please.






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                           A Canadian Opportunity

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net>
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 14:27:42 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 16:36:53 -0500
Subject: A Canadian Opportunity


== A Canadian Opportunity ==

"Too much official secrecy - especially UFO secrecy - not only
truncates the citizens' role in governmental decision-making; it
also puts too many of us at risk of faulty decision-making." --
  Larry W. Bryant

My renewed campaign for greater UFOIA accepts no territorial or
political boundaries. Just as the global UFO-E.T. presence
(some say intervention) poses a challenge to ALL Earth
governments, so too does that fact invite (nay, necessitate)
worldwide citizen participation in acknowledging and resolving
the challenge. In that regard, consider the following content
of an e-mail message I've just received from a Canadian
researcher:

"... I believe as well that there is a dearth of UFO reports in
the Canadian government files. There is just too much of a gap
in the information trail between the NRC files and that of the
years both before 1968 and after 1994. Even during the years
between, there is a significant lack of pilot reports, a chief
interest of mine, particularly of the commercial aviation
variety.

"It is my intent when this year ends - and I've retired from my
job - to spend more time investigating this lack of reports. I
have to slot that into my writing schedule ... . I'm sure you
would be interested in reports issuing from the Canadian realm
that might dovetail with your own efforts."






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                     Re: Gulf Breeze Pictures - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 15:11:05 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 16:38:45 -0500
Subject: Re: Gulf Breeze Pictures - Maccabee


 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 01:50:54 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Gulf Breeze Pictures


 >>From: Ben Holland <removed>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 19:59:51 +0100
 >>Subject: Gulf Breeze Pictures

 >>I thought you might like to read both of these.

 >>http://benholland.8k.com

 >>http://benholland.8k.com/COMMENTARY%20ON%20BARBARA%20BECKER%27S%201990%20PAPE
R%20ENTITLED.htm

 >>I hope these documents will shed some light on how all or most
 >>the photographs that appear in Ed Walter's Gulf Breeze Sightings
 >>book can be repeated by anyone without the knowledge of double
 >>exposure or tampering with the original negative.

 >In the article referred to above Mr. Holland has suggested that
 >the "glass reflection method" (GRM) was never considered as a
 >possible explanation for the Gulf Breeze photos of Ed Walters.
 >Holland states, "Okay, first of all no one has mentioned the
 >following procedure in anything related to the Gulf Breeze
 >photographs. If you have seen this method mentioned elsewhere
 >please point it out to me but at the moment it appears that I am
 >the first to bring it up."

 >In an earlier correspondence several weeks ago with Mr. Holland
 >I pointed out that I had discussed this at the 1988 MUFON
 >symposium along with other potential methods for hoaxing.
 >Moreover, I pointed out to him that a reporter and professional
 >photographer at the TV station Pensacola had, in fact, used the
 >GRM to create photos that are similar to some of Ed's first
 >photos.


This is an addendum to the above message regarding Mr. Holland's
claim of "primacy" with regard to the "glass reflection method"
(GRM) of hoaxing photos. At the time I wrote the above response
I did not have a copy of Ed's book handy. I have now reviewed
what I wrote in The Gulf Breeze Sightings. I find that in the
last chapter of the book (the chapter I wrote), in the section
labelled "The Middle of April 1988" I find the following
statement in the discussion of hoaxing photos:

"Other sophisticated photographic techniques have been suggested
by myself and by skeptics. These include 'reflection-on-glass'
and the 'photo montage,' but it would be rather difficult to
create Ed's UFO photos using these methods. If Ed had been a
shutterbug with lots of expensive cameras around, books on
photography, and lots of photographic equipment, my evaluation
of his potential capabilities for sophisticated photo hoaxing
would be different. However, his photographic equipment
consisted of only the old Polaroid and a simple, fixed focus
video camera (Sony camcorder."

The above is on page 288 of the hardback edition. I don't know
what page it is in the paperback.








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             Re: How Can Humanity Decode Alien Transmissions? -

From: David Jordt <jordt@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 16:41:35 EST
Fwd Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 18:05:30 -0500
Subject: Re: How Can Humanity Decode Alien Transmissions? -


From: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
Date: 3/27/2003 9:56:03 AM Pacific Standard Time
Subj: How Can Humanity Decode Alien Transmissions?


 >Source: Space.Com
 >How Can Humanity Decode Alien Transmissions?

List,

Has anybody been looking into the following?

SETI's microexamination of radio frequencies from outer space is
certainly impressive, but it presupposes that cultures advanced
beyond us by a billion years would communicate using the same
technology we did 70 years ago to pull in Amos n Andy. Not
bloody likely.

Since it is clear that the c-limit renders the transmission of
information by EM spectrum across even nearby space somewhere
between awkward and useless, it becomes equally clear that
advanced interstellar species probably wouldn't use it at all.

I.e., how would an alien earth probe tell the mothership
orbiting Pluto, "ah... we've got a problem... look for us
somewhere northwest of Roswell." Or why bother?

It causes one to cast about for other possibilities not limited
by the speed of light.

One obvious candidate is the recently-discovered phenomenon of
quantum phase entanglement - popularly misnomered
"teleportation". This in principle involves the instantaneous
transmission of information across space between particles that
were once physically interrelated at some point in time. This
was being explored initially at University of Paris South, then
University of Insbruck, then IBM and Cal Tech, and by now
probably gobs of others.

Since all particles in the universe were presumably somehow
physically interrelated at the moment of the Big Bang, or at the
billions of other moments when supernovas recycled everything,
would it be too much to suppose that all particles have retained
some ability to pass information between each other?

Perhaps, rather than scanning the universe with Arecibo we
should be looking for coherent signals in the quantum
manifestations of subatomic particles in the physics lab - right
under our noses.


David Jordt
Brownsville, CA







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                       Re: To Mars By A-Bomb - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 18:49:06 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 18:07:25 -0500
Subject: Re: To Mars By A-Bomb - Ledger


 >From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br> To: UFO
 >UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date:
 >Thu, 27 Mar 2003 15:22:13 -0300
 >Subject: To Mars By A-Bomb


 >Source: BBC-On-Line

 >http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/documentaries/features/mars-a-bo-mb.shtml

 >To Mars By A-Bomb

 >Wednesday 26 March 2003 9pm-10pm; rpt 1.10am-2.10am; Thursday
 >27 March 7pm-8pm; 10.30pm-11.30pm; Saturday 29 March 8pm-9pm

 >The extraordinary yet true account of a secret US government-
 >backed attempt to build a spaceship the size of an ocean
 >liner and send it to Mars, Jupiter and Saturn, propelled by
 >thousands of miniature nuclear bombs.

 >Beginning in 1958 Project Orion ran until 1965, employing
 >some of the best scientists in the world, including the
 >brilliant British mathematician and physicist Freeman Dyson.
 >"Freeman Dyson is one of the few authentic geniuses I've ever
 >met", says Arthur C. Clarke. "Orion isn't crazy. It would
 >work. The question isn't whether we could do it, but whether
 >we should do it".

What a lot of hooey. If it was a secret it was the worst kept
secret in history. I've been hearing about the Orion project for
at least 30 years. Too bad they hadn't kept up with it.maybe
we'd be on Mars now.


Don







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   Mar > Mar 29

                             SETI Draws A Blank

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 00:33:13 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 00:33:13 -0500
Subject: SETI Draws A Blank



Source: BBC News

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2892269.stm

Friday, 28 March, 2003, 12:58 GMT

ET Fails To 'Phone Home'
By Helen Briggs
BBC News Online science reporter

A search for intelligent life in space has drawn a blank.

Scientists have found no signs of alien beings after analysing
radio signals collected in the world's biggest distributed
computing project.

More than 150 candidates selected by the Seti@home project have
been examined using the giant Arecibo radio telescope in Puerto
Rico.

Astronomers say they have discovered no evidence of a signal
from an extraterrestrial civilisation during a quick, real-time
analysis of the data.

However, they intend to take a more thorough look at the results
over the next few weeks, with the help of Seti@home volunteers.

Susan Lendroth, of the Planetary Society in Pasadena,
California, US, which sponsors Seti@home, said they had not
expected a quick result.

She told BBC News Online: "The odds are probably against a quick
find but Seti researchers around the world hope that they will
one day find evidence of an alien civilisation."

People power

Since 1999, millions of people from more than 200 countries have
been running a special screensaver program on their desktops.

It uses idle time on a PC to sift data obtained by radio
telescopes for patterns that might represent a communication
from space.

The observations in Puerto Rico took place over three days.
Data was collected on 166 promising radio signals, exceeding the
original goal of 150.

Other sources were observed, including extra-solar planetary
systems (that might contain Earth-like planets), nearby galaxies
and Sun-like stars.

Bruce Betts of the Planetary Society said the unique aspect of
the project was that the public participates in real scientific
analysis.

"Millions of people around the world have helped get us to the
point where we could identify potential targets and take a
second look," he said.

"Now the new data will go back to the Seti@home volunteers for
more help with this early but critical step in our continuing
search for extraterrestrial intelligence."

Seti@home, which is based at the University of California,
Berkeley, was founded by the Planetary Society four years ago.









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                      Re: Gulf Breeze Pictures - Bueche

From: Will Bueche <willb3d@hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 20:20:40 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 00:37:58 -0500
Subject: Re: Gulf Breeze Pictures - Bueche


 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 01:50:54 -0500
 >Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 12:59:08 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Gulf Breeze Pictures - Maccabee

<snip>

 >The not-so-nice thing about the GRM is that you need an
 >illuminated model and you need a sizeable piece of glass and
 >supports for the glass and model at location of the background
 >scene.

Like a common storm window. Just thought I'd mention that in
case it sounded to anyone like it might be unusual to have
access to a panel of glass or plastic.

 >But more importantly, in three sightings
 >discussed in paper presented by Holland, there were non-family
 >witnesses who certainly wouldn't have been fooled.

I read the dreary book a while back (back when I thought that
such things could maybe be photographed) so I may be mistaken,
but none of them saw any UFO, correct? They just ran over to him
when he took a picture "In this case numerous other witnesses
were in the vicinity at the time of the photos, they saw the
flash go off, and they immediately rushed to the area where Ed
was"), and he showed them what they beleived was an instant
photo developing before their eyes.

Which could have been accomplished in two ways, at least: The
first, by using the power of suggestion to make them think a
photo taken earlier is new. As in, "Ooh look, the photo I have
in my hand here is developing, and in a few minutes it will be
clear and sharp, just let me wave it around here for a minute
out of your reach, in the dark, and, yep, ok, it's ready now.
Wow, look at that"; Or a double exposure as has already been
considered.

There's probably three sets of people who are moved to such
hoaxes:

1. The first set are people who assume that the whole subject of
alien encounters is fake, and everyone in it therefore are
fakers, so they feel there is therefore no harm in adding one
more (I'd put Rutter in this category). This group is to be
chided for their mistaken assumption.

2. The second set are people who are so desperate to have their
experiences validated by a society-bent-on-physical-proof that
they'd try a fake pic to find the credibility they need in a
very human way (figuring since it is true anyway, there's no
harm in convincing people of it). On a related note, that kind
of need is also why there are so many people who see lens flares
or dust motes or a slow-shutter+flash combos and absolutely
refuse to believe it is just a typical limitation of cameras.
This group is to be pitied and hopefully helped.

And there there's the third category: People who suspect aliens
may be real, but they don't care, they just want to ride a wave
to a book deal and money. This group is to have monkey poop
hurled at them.










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                        Re: To Mars By A-Bomb - Heath

From: Gord Heath <gwheath@shaw.ca>
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 19:31:11 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 00:41:02 -0500
Subject: Re: To Mars By A-Bomb - Heath


 >From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 18:49:06 -0400
 >Subject: Re: To Mars By A-Bomb

 >>From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>To: UFO
 >>UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>Date:
 >>Thu, 27 Mar 2003 15:22:13 -0300
 >>Subject: To Mars By A-Bomb

 >>Source: BBC-On-Line

 >>http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/documentaries/features/mars-a-bo-mb.shtml

 >>To Mars By A-Bomb

 >>Wednesday 26 March 2003 9pm-10pm; rpt 1.10am-2.10am; Thursday
 >>27 March 7pm-8pm; 10.30pm-11.30pm; Saturday 29 March 8pm-9pm

 >>The extraordinary yet true account of a secret US government-
 >>backed attempt to build a spaceship the size of an ocean
 >>liner and send it to Mars, Jupiter and Saturn, propelled by
 >>thousands of miniature nuclear bombs.

 >>Beginning in 1958 Project Orion ran until 1965, employing
 >>some of the best scientists in the world, including the
 >>brilliant British mathematician and physicist Freeman Dyson.
 >>"Freeman Dyson is one of the few authentic geniuses I've ever
 >>met", says Arthur C. Clarke. "Orion isn't crazy. It would
 >>work. The question isn't whether we could do it, but whether
 >>we should do it".

 >What a lot of hooey. If it was a secret it was the worst kept
 >secret in history. I've been hearing about the Orion project for
 >at least 30 years. Too bad they hadn't kept up with it.maybe
 >we'd be on Mars now.

Does anyone recall the book 'The Starship and the Canoe'? I
haven't read it but I seem to recall that the true story was
based on a scientist father who worked on the Orion Project and
his son who was captivated by his experimentation with
ocean-going kayak designs. I recall a friend at work who was
reading this back in the late 1970's.








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                        Re: To Mars By A-Bomb - McCoy

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@charter.net>
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 21:47:31 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 06:58:50 -0500
Subject: Re: To Mars By A-Bomb - McCoy


 >From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 18:49:06 -0400
 >Subject: Re: To Mars By A-Bomb

 >>From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>To: UFO
 >>UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>Date:
 >>Thu, 27 Mar 2003 15:22:13 -0300
 >>Subject: To Mars By A-Bomb

 >>Source: BBC-On-Line

 >>http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/documentaries/features/mars-a-bo-mb.shtml

 >>To Mars By A-Bomb

 >>Wednesday 26 March 2003 9pm-10pm; rpt 1.10am-2.10am; Thursday
 >>27 March 7pm-8pm; 10.30pm-11.30pm; Saturday 29 March 8pm-9pm

 >>The extraordinary yet true account of a secret US government-
 >>backed attempt to build a spaceship the size of an ocean
 >>liner and send it to Mars, Jupiter and Saturn, propelled by
 >>thousands of miniature nuclear bombs.

 >>Beginning in 1958 Project Orion ran until 1965, employing
 >>some of the best scientists in the world, including the
 >>brilliant British mathematician and physicist Freeman Dyson.
 >>"Freeman Dyson is one of the few authentic geniuses I've ever
 >>met", says Arthur C. Clarke. "Orion isn't crazy. It would
 >>work. The question isn't whether we could do it, but whether
 >>we should do it".

 >What a lot of hooey. If it was a secret it was the worst kept
 >secret in history. I've been hearing about the Orion project for
 >at least 30 years. Too bad they hadn't kept up with it.maybe
 >we'd be on Mars now.

Hello all. Don.

Roger that Don.

There was also the NERVA project that had a running nuclear
rocket that was a violation of the test ban treaty. so  it never
was even considered. As I understand.

My problem is if we had carried all the projects that were
sucessful in the 50's and 60's to fruition, we'd be on Mars now
trying to figure out how to get Alpha Centauri.


GT McCoy
Frustrated Spaceman (my wife's words.)








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             Re: How Can Humanity Decode Alien Transmissions? -

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 00:47:34 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 07:01:34 -0500
Subject: Re: How Can Humanity Decode Alien Transmissions? -


 >From: David Jordt <jordt@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 16:41:35 EST
 >Subject: Re: How Can Humanity Decode Alien Transmissions?

 >From: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: 3/27/2003 9:56:03 AM Pacific Standard Time
 >Subj: How Can Humanity Decode Alien Transmissions?

 >>Source: Space.Com
 >>How Can Humanity Decode Alien Transmissions?

 >List,

 >Has anybody been looking into the following?

 >SETI's microexamination of radio frequencies from outer space is
 >certainly impressive, but it presupposes that cultures advanced
 >beyond us by a billion years would communicate using the same
 >technology we did 70 years ago to pull in Amos n Andy. Not
 >bloody likely.

 >Since it is clear that the c-limit renders the transmission of
 >information by EM spectrum across even nearby space somewhere
 >between awkward and useless, it becomes equally clear that
 >advanced interstellar species probably wouldn't use it at all.

 >I.e., how would an alien earth probe tell the mothership
 >orbiting Pluto, "ah... we've got a problem... look for us
 >somewhere northwest of Roswell." Or why bother?

 >It causes one to cast about for other possibilities not limited
 >by the speed of light.

 >One obvious candidate is the recently-discovered phenomenon of
 >quantum phase entanglement - popularly misnomered
 >"teleportation". This in principle involves the instantaneous
 >transmission of information across space between particles that
 >were once physically interrelated at some point in time. This
 >was being explored initially at University of Paris South, then
 >University of Insbruck, then IBM and Cal Tech, and by now
 >probably gobs of others.

 >Since all particles in the universe were presumably somehow
 >physically interrelated at the moment of the Big Bang, or at the
 >billions of other moments when supernovas recycled everything,
 >would it be too much to suppose that all particles have retained
 >some ability to pass information between each other?

 >Perhaps, rather than scanning the universe with Arecibo we
 >should be looking for coherent signals in the quantum
 >manifestations of subatomic particles in the physics lab - right
 >under our noses.


Hello David:

If space.com did indeed publish that, I'm surprised at them. You
would think they had at least one physicist editing or proof
reading their articles.

Quantum Entanglement does _not_ offer faster-than-light
communications yet, not per the current wisdom.

The best analogy I can offer for those who aren't up on how
truly strange the various particles are, is this:

Lets say two coins are "quantum entangled" in some special way
so that if one is face up, the other is face down (tails up.) In
the process, both are hopelessly, randomly tossed, so that
nobody knows which side of either coin is up .. lets say there
is a poker chip on top of each coin hiding its 'up' face.

Do this many many times, creating many pairs of 'entangled'
coins. Take one from each pair to a lab on Earth, the other
(carefully co-numbered) goes way out in Space .. maybe a light
year away.

For each entangled pair of coins, coin A stays on Earth and the
other (coin B) is out in space with an observer.

A scientist lifts the poker chip off the A-coin on Earth,
revealing which side is up. Lets say its Heads. Instantly, they
_other_ coin has Tails up, and this can be verified by the
observer in space.

Repeated experiments prove the entanglement. Every time the coin
on Earth is Tails, the distant one is Heads, and vice-versa. [
It would take a year to confirm each outcome due to the 1 LY
distance of course. ]

That is amazing enough!!

Here's the problem. We on Earth can find out which side of the
A-coin is up, but we cannot determine it. This is entirely
random! The observer on the space ship sees a completely random
series of tails and heads. No information is transmitted, just
random binary digits [ 1 for heads, 0 for tails if you prefer. ]

OK, lets try a trick. Using Morse Code, the Sender on Earth
reveals two coin faces for a dot, four faces for a dash, and
_skips_ revealing faces for 3 coins to indicate all spaces
between dots and dashes.

What does the spaceship observer see? He sees a perfectly random
series of heads/tails (or ones and zeroes) again, which
indicates and transmits exactly _zero_ information.

How's that? Since some of the coins were not 'determined'
(collapse of quantum uncertainty) on Earth, the observer in
space determined the outcomes... but he cannot know that! There
is no way for him to know if any given 'Head' or 'Tail' resulted
from entangled events on Earth, or whether he collapsed the
uncertainty himself!

For all the space observer knows, his counterpart on Earth
died. Shame on you, space.com.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch

PS: I'm not wholeheartedly sold on any particular theory for
UFOs. One that intrigues me though, would involve highly
intelligent unmanned scientific probes, sent long ago, by some
advanced race who stayed at home. Having extended their life
spans indefinitely, they could have an attention span much
longer than an airedale, a teenager or a 30 year mortgage
[burp!]. They may be content/resigned to delays of decades or
centuries, for the scientific payloads.

The time will go by whether they send the probes or not.....


-LH






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   Mar > Mar 29

                    Brazil: The Most Amazing Hoax Of All

From: A. J. Gevaerd <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 08:40:00 -0300
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 08:18:56 -0500
Subject: Brazil: The Most Amazing Hoax Of All


Dear Listers:

Back in the 50s, pioneer English UFO researcher and editor
Gordon Creighton, after checking out the just released Antonio
Vilas-Boas case, defined it as "The most amazing case of all".
Those were glorious days for Brazilian Ufology, with great cases
being investigated by great UFO researchers. Many incidents like
Vilas Boas' happened then. However, today, despite that fact the
we still have great cases being investigated by great UFO
researchers, we have to face what I call "The most amazing hoax
of all". And most profitable, too.

Here I publish more info to about Urandir Fernandes de Oliveira,
the man who claims to have been abducted several times in
Brazil, whose story, and incredible pictures, are supported by
www.earthfiles.com with many details that have impressed
American UFO enthisiasts. We have already discussed his un-
ending set of hoaxes on this List, but now look at this new
info, that has just been spread in Brazil:


2 years ago Urandir claimed that he had received a message from
ETs commanding him to deliver 1,440 'plates' to terrestrials he
chooses. He said that these plates contained a special message
and an alphabet to be given to Earth people. But only selected
people would be entitled to receive them. They are called
"Akashical Register Plates", very badly shaped, poor in quality
and made with terracota or other primary material.

He, and his closest co-workers, made people believe that it
would be a great honour, a true cosmic glory, to be selected to
receive the plates, which are placed at a man-made, small cavern
on his farm. On weekends, hundreds of people from all over
Brazil ride Urandir's buses to his farm to try to be chosen. It
is estimated, by his own people, that about 10,000 have made the
trip. Each one paid between US$ 110 and US$ 170, plus other
expenses at the farm, shopping for souvenirs etc. It is a total
of about US$ 1.4 million in 2 years. Who has made that much
money in Ufology?

As if it wasn't enough, Urandir claimed that his
extraterrestrial friends gave Earth people a deadline to get
the 'so-special' plates, which ends this month, March. So,
thousands of people rushed, at the last moment to try to get the
remaining 200 plates - 1,220 have already been given as of
January. Urandir said that the ETs will start a new "phase" of
their approach to Earth after the deadline passed, and people
who got the plates would have a hugely important role in this
new process. More money coming.....

Well, guess what? The alien deadline was reached but it looks
like the money already collected isn't enough. So Urandir came
up with a new story this week. Now he claims that he requested,
and his extraterrestrial friends agreed, that they will give
Earth people another chance to get more 'Akashical Register'
plates. The deadline was significantly extended and more plates
will be shiped by ETs to Urandir's farm, so they can be placed
on weekends in his cavern. It is expected that other 10,000
people will try to get the newly-gifted souvenirs. Maybe another
US$ 1.4 million is coming...

Amazing, isn't it? But that's not all. Urandir made people
believe that the plates represented a significant source of
information that will change Earth's future. As his co-workers
and employees are very creative, they designed mysterious signs
and drawings on the 1,440 plates, that the 'gifted' Urandir
paranormaly interpreted and created a new alphabet that,
according to him, will replace our old one. Influenced by that,
those who got the plates, and other enthusiasts, have now
spread the message and the new alphabet is being learned by
thousands of people who believe that, if they do so, they can
take part in ET's projects on Earth, in the future.


A. J. Gevaerd








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   Mar > Mar 29

               Scientists Finally Admit Mars Has Water + Life

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 07:08:22 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 07:08:22 -0500
Subject: Scientists Finally Admit Mars Has Water + Life



Source: Space.Com

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/mars_streaks_030328.html


Mars Water, Odd Surface Features Tied to Life
By Leonard David
Senior Space Writer

posted: 07:30 am ET
28 March 2003


Mars is one wet and wild world. Scientists are slowly warming up
to the view that trickling amounts of water on the cold, dry
planet may be nourishing Martian biology.

Thanks to spacecraft observations by the Mars Global Surveyor
(MGS), newly formed dark slope streaks on Mars have been
spotted. Emanating from a point source, they widen as they flow
down slope. In some cases, they divide into separate streaks as
they encounter other surface features.

These sharp-edged dark stains always appear on slopes, mostly
inside craters and valleys, but also on small hills. They are
almost always located below Martian sea level - zero elevation.

Over the last few years, cause for the streaks has been chalked
up to the work of winds, or cascading surface materials. These
processes would remove light-colored surface dust to expose
darker bedrock beneath - so the thinking went.

Let it flow

A new view is that liquid flow is the most promising process for
explaining the dark streaks. They appear to indicate currently
flowing water on Mars.

That's the interpretation of Tahirih Motazedian, carrying out
independent undergraduate research at the Department of
Geological Sciences and the University of Oregon.

Images snapped by MGS months apart of a same area on Mars show
that new streaks have formed within a time interval of months.

"It could have happened in an hour or taken all of six months,"
Motazedian said during a presentation of her research findings
at the 34th Lunar and Planetary Science Conference (LPSC), held
March 17-21 in Houston, Texas.

Heat source

Motazedian said that the dark streaks can be found in various
parts of Mars, but are heavily concentrated in the vicinity of
Olympus Mons - a huge volcano on the red planet. Some form of
geothermal activity on Mars -- acting either to melt subsurface
ice or releasing water from liquid aquifers, or a combination of
the two -- is releasing liquid onto the surface and forms the
dark streaks, she said.

It is possible, Motazedian suggested, that geothermal activity,
driven by volcanic heat, is melting subsurface ice. This
melting, in turn, releases a brine that dissolves surrounding
minerals. Furthermore, the brine has a low freezing temperature,
allowing it to flow at the Martian surface. The dissolved
minerals precipitate from solution, leaving behind dark streaks
of rock varnish.

The most exciting thing about dark streaks is that they are
currently forming today, Motazedian told the scientific
gathering. "As I speak to your right now, there are dark streaks
forming on Mars. That's literally true," she said.

Not a dead planet

The sharply-defined end-points of the dark streaks, Motazedian
said, implies that the flows end where their liquid source is
exhausted, having been consumed in a coating of surface dust and
soaking into the ground.

The dark streaks passively overlay other surface features on
Mars without disturbing them or causing erosion. The dark
streaks themselves have neither positive nor negative relief,
Motazedian's research indicates. They appear as if they are
stains on the existing topography, she reported.

The amount of water flowing over the surface to create the
streaks appears to be very, very small, Motazedian said. "It's
pretty much soaking or sublimating (vaporizing) as soon as it
comes down. So it's not forceful enough to erode a path for
itself," she noted.

"Mars is not a dead planet," Motazedian. "So I'm suggesting that
all of you should quit your jobs and investigate dark streaks,"
she told the LPSC gathering.

Streaks of microbial life

Could the dark stains be biological?

David McKay, a NASA space scientist at the Johnson Space Center
in Houston, aired that prospect at the LPSC meeting. He is lead
analyst in the ALH 84001 Mars meteorite detective work that
suggests the rock sports the telltale signs of past life on the
red planet.

McKay offered an alternative view of the dark nature of the
streaks. He speculated that there could be some dormant
microbial life form that is rejuvenated by the water and,
therefore, it is dark when it grows and then slowly dies off
over months or years.

"I'm suggesting this seriously as an explanation. I would like
to see somebody demolish it_but it seems to me that with our
current data we cannot exclude it," McKay said.

Dark dune spots

Also at LPSC, a team of Hungarian Mars researchers, led by Tibor
Ganti and Andras Horvath, presented new work based on
comparative MGS imagery taken over an extended time period. They
see a tie between water in Mars' upper layer and the formation
of what they call dark dune spots, or DDSs.

They have charted the comings and goings, and rebirth of the
DDSs from 1998 to 2002. In their view, the spots point to "some
kind of biological activity of putative Mars surface organisms,
acting on, or in, the material of the dark dunes."

"The massive reappearance of the spots at their original sites
seems to be compatible with our Mars surface organism hypothesis
about the biological origin of dark dune spots," the researchers
said.

Evidence for water on the red planet documented by the Mars
Odyssey spacecraft has bolstered the beliefs of the Hungarian
Mars team.

The prevalence of water seen by Odyssey ranges from the Mars'
South Pole up to 60 degrees South. That coincides with the
regions of the dark dune spots. "From this data we may deduce
that water in some form is relatively abundant in the region of
the dark dune spots," Ganti and Horvath reported at the LPSC
meeting.

Mars on ice

There is no doubt that Mars is on ice, with huge reservoirs of
frozen water hidden just below the planet's surface.

The story of how much ice is sequestered subsurface continues to
grow, said William Boynton of the University of Arizona and
principal investigator for the Mars Odyssey's Gamma Ray
Spectrometer.

Data gleaned by Odyssey has shown tremendous water ice deposits,
Boynton said.

"It really is changing the way we think of how the ice formed,"
Boynton told SPACE.com . The idea that water vapor eked down to
depths deep enough and cold enough to condense out does not seem
to account for the vast amounts of water ice detected, he said.

There's no telling how deep the ice might extend just below
surface on Mars, Boynton said. It could be several hundreds of
feet to well over a mile in depth.

"All of a sudden you're starting to talk about a pretty
significant amount of water," Boynton said. "It looks like the
Viking 2 landing site was actually right on top of this ice. If
its robot arm had dug just a little bit deeper they would have
found it," he said.

As for life being preserved in the ice or still kicking today,
Boynton said that, with reasonable confidence he believes
there's loads of ice on Mars. "If there is something that is
happy living in ice_it is going to be very happy there," he
said.









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   Mar > Mar 29

              Re: Brazil: The Most Amazing Hoax Of All - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 06:12:32 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 13:40:17 -0500
Subject: Re: Brazil: The Most Amazing Hoax Of All - Hatch


 >From: A. J. Gevaerd <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 08:40:00 -0300
 >Subject: Brazil: The Most Amazing Hoax Of All

 >Dear Listers:

 >Back in the 50s, pioneer English UFO researcher and editor
 >Gordon Creighton, after checking out the just released Antonio
 >Vilas-Boas case, defined it as "The most amazing case of all".
 >Those were glorious days for Brazilian Ufology, with great cases
 >being investigated by great UFO researchers. Many incidents like
 >Vilas Boas' happened then. However, today, despite that fact the
 >we still have great cases being investigated by great UFO
 >researchers, we have to face what I call "The most amazing hoax
 >of all". And most profitable, too.

 >Here I publish more info to about Urandir Fernandes de Oliveira,
 >the man who claims to have been abducted several times in
 >Brazil, whose story, and incredible pictures, are supported by
 >www.earthfiles.com with many details that have impressed
 >American UFO enthisiasts. We have already discussed his un-
 >ending set of hoaxes on this List, but now look at this new
 >info, that has just been spread in Brazil:

<snip>

Dear AJ:

A few questions here:

1) If Urandir and his space aliens replace the existing (more or
less Roman) alphabet with a new one, will it be harder or easier
to read Portugues?   I always liked the Brazil '66 song "Shove
Shuuuva" [Constant Rain] but the Brazilian spelling makes that
confusing to a yankee.

2] Are the plates circular, square, rectangular or some other
general shape?  If rectangular, are there slots permitting them
to be placed on cars and trucks like regular state/national
vehicle license plates?

3) If the people paying hundreds of dollars each for these
special plates, put them on their cars and trucks, will that
exempt them from regular government license plates, or will they
be forced to pay vehicle taxes as an extra burden?

4) Does Linda Moulton Howe have one of these plates?  If so,
what is the number of such a plate?  Do the numbers glow in the
dark?

5] If shaped like dinner plates, are they safe to use with
ordinary family meals?

Thank you for your kind patience.



Best wishes

- Larry Hatch

= = = = =







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   Mar > Mar 29

                     Re: Rutherglen UFO Mystery - Hebert

From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com>
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 09:29:40 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 13:42:54 -0500
Subject: Re: Rutherglen UFO Mystery - Hebert


 >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >To: <- UFO UpDates Subscribers ->
 >Date: Thursday, March 27, 2003 11:48 AM
 >Subject: UFO UpDate: Rutherglen UFO Mystery

 >Source: The Rutherglen Reformer - Lanarkshire, Scotland

 >http://www.inside-scotland.co.uk/lanarkshire/reformer/NEWS/sighting.html
 >Rutherglen UFO Mystery

 >GUFORO have ruled out astronomical explanations for the
 >sighting, including a meteor that was passing Earth at the time.

How can *anything* be "ruled out" when investigating the
unknown?

I have read statements like this over and over in sighting
reports and it automatically indicates possible bias by the
investigators and/or authors of the report. Just because the
object (or whatever it was) did not fit the meteor that was
passing at the time does not mean "astronomical explanations" or
any other explanations that do not support it being a real UFO
should be ruled out.

An investigation should be centered on finding the truth not
ruling out possible explanations. If you don't know what
something is or have clear, incontrovertible evidence of what
something is (or is not), all possible explanations must be
considered and carefully evaluated. The space surrounding the
earth is quite large and there can be all kinds of celestial
events taking place at any given time that cannot all be
detected and recorded by human sensing equipment. In any alleged
UFO sighting it is always possible some type of astronomical
event may have occurred that was not detected by scientists
charged with monitoring these events so one can never "rule out"
astronomical explanations. You can narrow the possibilities down
but you can never rule out anything.

Anytime an investigator or reporter uses the term "ruled out"
red flags should automatically alert one to possible bias in the
initial report(s) and subsequent investigations by those
involved.


A. Hebert







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   Mar > Mar 29

                         Ray Stanford On SDI Tonight

From: Strange Days... Indeed <sdi@cfrb.com>
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 13:35:11 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 13:46:28 -0500
Subject: Ray Stanford On SDI Tonight


Our featured guest tonight, Ray Stanford, has been both a
controversial and an elusive figure for Ufology, over the
years.

Stanford, during his teenage years was, as he says, "... taken
in by George Adamski...", and by what he says was his own
youthful will to believe the incredible, to the point that he
even misinterpreted some 1950s close-range UFO encounters as
being Psi-mediated contacts.

He was also involved from 1960 through 1978 in study of the
reach of his own psychic ability, but now repudiates the
majority of that work as subjective and expresses caution about
following such psychic readings, as he did, in that eighteen-
year period.

During that period, Ray Stanford founded the Laboratory for
Instrumented UFO Studies in 1973, assembling a two million
dollar system of optical and electronic instruments for
recording high-resolution optical images of UFOs along with
extreme low-frequency magnetic effects, gravity waves, light
spectra, sound effects, etc. He reports that all such
instruments have now been used successfully by his project, with
the result, for example, that Gravity Waves from UFOs are now
recorded and documented!

Ray Stanford has agreed to talk tonight in order to set the
record straight about his life and research, and to share some
information about his project's instrumented study of UFOs,
which he has finally concluded, is the most productive approach
to UFO studies.


Errol Bruce-Knapp
Host/Producer
'Strange Days... Indeed'
21:00 Eastern - Saturdays on
NewsTalk 1010 CFRB - Toronto


Listen via The Web & SurferNet at:

http://www.cfrb.com

Program page:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/sdi/program/







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   Mar > Mar 29

                    Whither The FOIA's Corpus And Spirit?

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net>
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 14:23:03 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 15:20:47 -0500
Subject: Whither The FOIA's Corpus And Spirit?


"When it takes nearly a year - with no success - to acquire from
our government a full FOIA accounting of the UFO-intercept
mission near Waldorf, Md., on July 26, 2002, while we have day-
by-day access to detailed data on U. S. military operations in
Iraq, we know that our noble, cherished Freedom of Information
Act has become almost 100-percent politicized." - Larry W.
Bryant (March 26, 2003)


Whither the FOIA's Corpus and Spirit?

By Larry W. Bryant

Forgive me, fellow UFOIA warriors, for my having overlooked the
22nd anniversary of the congressionally established Freedom of
Information Day. It occurred on March 16th, the birthday, in
1751, of James Madison - whose legacy of championing open
government serves as a beacon and rallying point for all
like- minded citizens today.

Ironically, the observance of FOI Day this year comes at a time
when the U. S. Freedom of Information Act is being undermined,
under a high political-expedience priority, by the Bush II
administration.

Long ago, I (reluctantly but realistically) concluded that our
government's Executive Branch generally views the Act as, at
best, a nuisance and, at worst, a threat to the Branch's power
structure and authority. The Act's very potency, after all,
derives mostly from (and, alas, perpetuates) an "us versus them"
culture born of the Watergate scandal and the various
intelligence-agency abuses of that era. More irony: the Act's
several key "exemptions from mandatory disclosure" have shielded
those very intelligence agencies from too-close scrutiny by the
public - a consequence that probably would evoke a wry smile
from Madison, Jefferson, Mason, et al., were they alive to
witness it.

But I for one ain't a-smilin,' folks. In one respect, a gelded
freedom-of-information law could be worse than none at all - for
the gelded version might tend to give the citizenry a false
sense of accountability and security just at a point when
society would benefit most by not having to settle for the
gelded version.

We of course have reached that pivotal point in FOIA
history/philosophy/practice where enforcement of the Act's
provisions has reached an all-time low, thanks to the
Ashcroftian slicing/dicing of Congress's intent.

You can accept this sad state of affairs by merely sitting on
your hands and concluding, "Well, since it has little effect on
me personally, why should I care whether we have ANY kind of
information-access law?"

Or, you can stand up and reject the administration's heavy-
handed gutting of the Act and thereby, at the very least, help
the rest of us try to preserve and apply what's left of it. And
if enough of you do choose to stand up, we even might end up
restoring some of the Act's backbone and muscle.







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   Mar > Mar 29

             Re: How Can Humanity Decode Alien Transmissions? -

From: Joachim Koch <koch@kochkyborg.de>
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 20:21:20 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 15:26:10 -0500
Subject: Re: How Can Humanity Decode Alien Transmissions? -


 >From: David Jordt <jordt@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 16:41:35 EST
 >Subject: Re: How Can Humanity Decode Alien Transmissions?

<snip>

 >SETI's microexamination of radio frequencies from outer space is
 >certainly impressive, but it presupposes that cultures advanced
 >beyond us by a billion years would communicate using the same
 >technology we did 70 years ago to pull in Amos n Andy. Not
 >bloody likely.

<snip>

 >Perhaps, rather than scanning the universe with Arecibo we
 >should be looking for coherent signals in the quantum
 >manifestations of subatomic particles in the physics
 >lab - right under our noses.


Dear David, Dear List,

A civilisation advanced beyond us surely is aware of the fact
that civilisations do exist lesser advanced than themselves and
will contribute to this fact by trying to get in contact on all
possible levels, 'simple' radio signals included.

Not that they need this contact or the way it is done for
themselves. By 'coming down to our level' they help us to
realise that we are not alone. And they also transmit the clear
message that it is wonderful that humankind has advanced to know
about 'coherent signals in the quantum manifestations of
subatomic particles in the physics lab' - but that this will
only reveal physical effects. You will not reveal by watching
and measuring subatomic particles what these particles do think.
Or what they all together think and know about. Or what the
whole 'body' which consists of all these particles is thinking -
  and knowing.

We already have received messages of profound importence. We see
them as "ancient carvings" or buildings and earthworks by
unknown past civilisations. We have seen them in the late 80's
and early 90's of the past century in Southern England in the
green meadows and fields of Salisbury Plain. Yes, not in a lab,
not to reproduce in that way by humans, accompanied by failures
of power stations, lights in the sky, threatening of animals and
humans, strange sounds of ascending and descending unknown
flying objects, hundreds of witnesses, military and governmental
surveillance on all levels and 24 hrs a day and much, much more,
the shift of human consciousness included.

Before you call me names - we have been there for now 12 years.
We have seen a lot and experienced much more. One of our
conclusions: there is no, absolutely no reason to state that
advanced civilisations would only give a sign of their existence
to only sophisticated scientists or billion-dollar funded
military institutions.

It happens sometimes different from what we do think it should
happen - because other civilisations have their own way of
thinking. We are not the summit of universal evolution, we are
only a tiny part amidst this cosmic process.


Joachim Koch
Berlin, Germany







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   Mar > Mar 29

                      Re: Gulf Breeze Pictures - Gates

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 16:12:13 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 16:24:17 -0500
Subject: Re: Gulf Breeze Pictures - Gates


 >From: Will Bueche <willb3d@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 20:20:40 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Gulf Breeze Pictures

 >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >>Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 01:50:54 -0500
 >>Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 12:59:08 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Gulf Breeze Pictures - Maccabee

 ><snip>

 >>The not-so-nice thing about the GRM is that you need an
 >>illuminated model and you need a sizeable piece of glass and
 >>supports for the glass and model at location of the background
 >>scene.

 >Like a common storm window. Just thought I'd mention that in
 >case it sounded to anyone like it might be unusual to have
 >access to a panel of glass or plastic.

 >>But more importantly, in three sightings
 >>discussed in paper presented by Holland, there were non-family
 >>witnesses who certainly wouldn't have been fooled.

 >I read the dreary book a while back (back when I thought that
 >such things could maybe be photographed) so I may be mistaken,
 >but none of them saw any UFO, correct? They just ran over to him
 >when he took a picture "In this case numerous other witnesses
 >were in the vicinity at the time of the photos, they saw the
 >flash go off, and they immediately rushed to the area where Ed
 >was"), and he showed them what they beleived was an instant
 >photo developing before their eyes.

Will, Listers,

As I recall there were other witnesses who were with Ed when he
shot some of his photos, seeing both the UFO and the photo of it
Ed shot. Sticks to mind that it was some local official not to
mention many others who sighted UFOs like Ed photographed in the
area during the time of the sightings.

The question also becomes did any witnesses report Ed having set
up glass, models on sticks or whatever? If the answer is "no"
then all we have is speculation which is in the same league as
seeing Elvis in a UFO.

Certainly his former wife Francis would have had all sorts of
opportunitys to expose Ed as a hoaxer when they divorced. She
didn't and hasn't uttered a peep.


Cheers,

Robert







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   Mar > Mar 29

              Re: Brazil: The Most Amazing Hoax Of All - Burns

From: Chris Burns <Thurstonoreggae@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 16:49:28 EST
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 18:21:36 -0500
Subject: Re: Brazil: The Most Amazing Hoax Of All - Burns


 >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 06:12:32 -0800
 >Subject: Re: Brazil: The Most Amazing Hoax Of All

 >3) If the people paying hundreds of dollars each for these
 >special plates, put them on their cars and trucks, will that
 >exempt them from regular government license plates, or will they
 >be forced to pay vehicle taxes as an extra burden?

 >4) Does Linda Moulton Howe have one of these plates?  If so,
 >what is the number of such a plate? Do the numbers glow in the
 >dark?

Now what would LMH's plate be?  Hmmm... .

How 'bout "DEDMOO", "CTLMUT", "CARCAS".... .

Suggestions?


With mad luv,

Chris Burns

(who can't believe we are still talking about the Ed Walters
photos)







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                      Re: To Mars By A-Bomb - Friedman

From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com>
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 19:01:03 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 18:25:33 -0500
Subject: Re: To Mars By A-Bomb - Friedman


 >From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@charter.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 21:47:31 -0800
 >Subject: Re: To Mars By A-Bomb

 >>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 18:49:06 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: To Mars By A-Bomb

 >>>From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>To: UFO
 >>>UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>Date:
 >>>Thu, 27 Mar 2003 15:22:13 -0300
 >>>Subject: To Mars By A-Bomb

 >>>Source: BBC-On-Line

 >>>http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/documentaries/features/mars-a-bo-mb.shtml

 >>>To Mars By A-Bomb

 >>>Wednesday 26 March 2003 9pm-10pm; rpt 1.10am-2.10am; Thursday
 >>>27 March 7pm-8pm; 10.30pm-11.30pm; Saturday 29 March 8pm-9pm

 >>>The extraordinary yet true account of a secret US government-
 >>>backed attempt to build a spaceship the size of an ocean
 >>>liner and send it to Mars, Jupiter and Saturn, propelled by
 >>>thousands of miniature nuclear bombs.

 >>>Beginning in 1958 Project Orion ran until 1965, employing
 >>>some of the best scientists in the world, including the
 >>>brilliant British mathematician and physicist Freeman Dyson.
 >>>"Freeman Dyson is one of the few authentic geniuses I've ever
 >>>met", says Arthur C. Clarke. "Orion isn't crazy. It would
 >>>work. The question isn't whether we could do it, but whether
 >>>we should do it".

 >>What a lot of hooey. If it was a secret it was the worst kept
 >>secret in history. I've been hearing about the Orion project for
 >>at least 30 years. Too bad they hadn't kept up with it.maybe
 >>we'd be on Mars now.


 >There was also the NERVA project that had a running nuclear
 >rocket that was a violation of the test ban treaty. so  it never
 >was even considered. As I understand.

 >My problem is if we had carried all the projects that were
 >sucessful in the 50's and 60's to fruition, we'd be on Mars now
 >trying to figure out how to get Alpha Centauri.


Certainly there has been plenty of discussion of Project Orion
over the years. But NERVA had nothing to do with nuclear
explosions.

Many NERVA type systems were ground tested in the 1960s.
Hydrogen cooled reactor... no oxidiser. Biggest was Phoebus 2B
built by Los Alamos. It was operated at a power level of 4400
megawatts or twice that of the Point Lepreau Nuclear Generating
station here in New Brunswick.

The program was cancelled because there was no leadership by
NASA and no mission.

It had about twice the specific impulse of a chemical rocket but
was _not_ designed for use as a first stage launch vehicle.
Thrust was too low... About 350,000 pounds vs. 6 Million for
Saturn V.

But for a third stage for a manned mission to Mars or earth
orbit lunar orbit etc. would have been good. The test plan
treaty did stop testing of an Orion system but would not apply
to a NERVA (KIWI, NRX, XE etc) system. No nuclear explosions.

One of the big thrills of my professional career was real time
listening as we at Westinghouse Astronuclear tested the NRX A-6
(Jackass Flats, Nevada) and it went the full time at design. My
experiments went well. Temperatures and pressures. Power level
was 1100 Megawatts.


Stan Friedman








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   Mar > Mar 30

                 Re: Brazil: The Most Amazing Hoax Of All -

From: Colin Stevenson <colin@c2k2.fsworld.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 19:49:42 -0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 21:59:25 -0500
Subject: Re: Brazil: The Most Amazing Hoax Of All -


 >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 06:12:32 -0800
 >Subject: Re: Brazil: The Most Amazing Hoax Of All

 >>From: A. J. Gevaerd <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 08:40:00 -0300
 >>Subject: Brazil: The Most Amazing Hoax Of All

 >>Dear Listers:

 >>Back in the 50s, pioneer English UFO researcher and editor
 >>Gordon Creighton, after checking out the just released Antonio
 >>Vilas-Boas case, defined it as "The most amazing case of all".
 >>Those were glorious days for Brazilian Ufology, with great cases
 >>being investigated by great UFO researchers. Many incidents like
 >>Vilas Boas' happened then. However, today, despite that fact the
 >>we still have great cases being investigated by great UFO
 >>researchers, we have to face what I call "The most amazing hoax
 >>of all". And most profitable, too.

 >>Here I publish more info to about Urandir Fernandes de Oliveira,
 >>the man who claims to have been abducted several times in
 >>Brazil, whose story, and incredible pictures, are supported by
 >>www.earthfiles.com with many details that have impressed
 >>American UFO enthisiasts. We have already discussed his un-
 >>ending set of hoaxes on this List, but now look at this new
 >>info, that has just been spread in Brazil:

 ><snip>

 >Dear AJ:

 >A few questions here:

 >1) If Urandir and his space aliens replace the existing (more or
 >less Roman) alphabet with a new one, will it be harder or easier
 >to read Portugues?   I always liked the Brazil '66 song "Shove
 >Shuuuva" [Constant Rain] but the Brazilian spelling makes that
 >confusing to a yankee.

 >2] Are the plates circular, square, rectangular or some other
 >general shape?  If rectangular, are there slots permitting them
 >to be placed on cars and trucks like regular state/national
 >vehicle license plates?

 >3) If the people paying hundreds of dollars each for these
 >special plates, put them on their cars and trucks, will that
 >exempt them from regular government license plates, or will they
 >be forced to pay vehicle taxes as an extra burden?

 >4) Does Linda Moulton Howe have one of these plates?  If so,
 >what is the number of such a plate?  Do the numbers glow in the
 >dark?

 >5] If shaped like dinner plates, are they safe to use with
 >ordinary family meals?


Hello all

Are these plates not saucer size (aka mini flying saucers) and
when more money is required are they not going to sell the cups
to go with them complete with tea leaves interpreted by ET as
being a depiction of their star system? Boy, are we looking
forward to that or what ?! Hope they glaze them so the tea
doesn't run out of them when we drink from them.

Maybe after that they could do teaspoons... then maybe move onto
the full dinner/tea set.

'Thinks'..... If they are that popular maybe we could sell
something similar here in the UK..... Really must do some new
web pages, get a merchant's account and plenty of clay.


Happy days

col
:-)








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   Mar > Mar 30

                        Re: To Mars By A-Bomb - McCoy

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@charter.net>
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 20:35:17 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 22:11:39 -0500
Subject: Re: To Mars By A-Bomb - McCoy


 >From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 19:01:03 -0400
 >Subject: Re: To Mars By A-Bomb

 >>From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@charter.net>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 21:47:31 -0800
 >>Subject: Re: To Mars By A-Bomb

<snip>

 >>There was also the NERVA project that had a running nuclear
 >>rocket that was a violation of the test ban treaty. so it never
 >>was even considered. As I understand.

 >>My problem is if we had carried all the projects that were
 >>sucessful in the 50's and 60's to fruition, we'd be on Mars now
 >>trying to figure out how to get Alpha Centauri.

 >Certainly there has been plenty of discussion of Project Orion
 >over the years. But NERVA had nothing to do with nuclear
 >explosions.

 >Many NERVA type systems were ground tested in the 1960s.
 >Hydrogen cooled reactor... no oxidiser. Biggest was Phoebus 2B
 >built by Los Alamos. It was operated at a power level of 4400
 >megawatts or twice that of the Point Lepreau Nuclear Generating
 >station here in New Brunswick.

 >The program was cancelled because there was no leadership by
 >NASA and no mission.

 >It had about twice the specific impulse of a chemical rocket but
 >was _not_ designed for use as a first stage launch vehicle.
 >Thrust was too low... About 350,000 pounds vs. 6 Million for
 >Saturn V.

 >But for a third stage for a manned mission to Mars or earth
 >orbit lunar orbit etc. would have been good. The test plan
 >treaty did stop testing of an Orion system but would not apply
 >to a NERVA (KIWI, NRX, XE etc) system. No nuclear explosions.

 >One of the big thrills of my professional career was real time
 >listening as we at Westinghouse Astronuclear tested the NRX A-6
 >(Jackass Flats, Nevada) and it went the full time at design. My
 >experiments went well. Temperatures and pressures. Power level
 >was 1100 Megawatts.


Hello, All, Stan,

Thanks for setting me straight, I thought NERVA was affected by
the Test Ban Treaty. That makes it even worse. No leadership. no
progress.


GT McCoy

Frusterated Spaceman








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                     Re: Gulf Breeze Pictures - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 23:46:58 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 22:15:37 -0500
Subject: Re: Gulf Breeze Pictures - Maccabee


 >From: Will Bueche <willb3d@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 20:20:40 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Gulf Breeze Pictures

 >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >>Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 01:50:54 -0500
 >>Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 12:59:08 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Gulf Breeze Pictures - Maccabee

<snip>

 >>The not-so-nice thing about the GRM is that you need an
 >>illuminated model and you need a sizeable piece of glass and
 >>supports for the glass and model at location of the background
 >>scene.

 >Like a common storm window. Just thought I'd mention that in
 >case it sounded to anyone like it might be unusual to have
 >access to a panel of glass or plastic.

As long as the window frame doesn't appear in the picture.

 >>But more importantly, in three sightings
 >>discussed in paper presented by Holland, there were non-family
 >>witnesses who certainly wouldn't have been fooled.

 >I read the dreary book a while back (back when I thought that
 >such things could maybe be photographed) so I may be mistaken,
 >but none of them saw any UFO, correct?

That is correct.

 >They just ran over to him
 >when he took a picture "In this case numerous other witnesses
 >were in the vicinity at the time of the photos, they saw the
 >flash go off, and they immediately rushed to the area where Ed
 >was"), and he showed them what they beleived was an instant
 >photo developing before their eyes.

What you have recited applies to one of the cases... the March 17
1988 stereo photo case at Shoreline Park. Earlier there was an
event with Duane Cook (editor of the newspaper) who was
videotaping Ed at the time of the photo (but not looking in the
direction that Ed was looking when he took the picture). Later,
on Jan. 8, 1990 there was a multiple witness event when the saw
Ed taking the pictures and saw the object/UFO that Ed was
photographing. Two other people took photos of the same object.

 >Which could have been accomplished in two ways, at least: The
 >first, by using the power of suggestion to make them think a
 >photo taken earlier is new. As in, "Ooh look, the photo I have
 >in my hand here is developing, and in a few minutes it will be
 >clear and sharp, just let me wave it around here for a minute
 >out of your reach, in the dark, and, yep, ok, it's ready now.
 >Wow, look at that"; Or a double exposure as has already been
 >considered.

This refers to the March 17 stereo photo case.

Your speculation here is not based on the witness testimony as
to what actually happened. It is a long story but the basically
after taking the two photos (left and right camera photos) Ed
rushed to the parking lot to watch the photos develop under the
light of the car headlights. The other people rushed over to
look and watched the image become visible, i.e., they say the
image appear. They did not report that Ed was waving the
pictures around, but rather that he held them steady in the
light so that others could see them develop.







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   Mar > Mar 30

                            Magonia Supplement 46

From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 12:13:04 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 22:18:14 -0500
Subject: Magonia Supplement 46


Supplement 46 is now on the Magonia website at:

http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/00/supp46.htm

Main aticles are Martin Kottmeyer on whether the 9/11 tragedy
had any effect on UFO sightings, and Matt Graeber looks at
Mothman, with an account of a remarkable personal experience.

It is too long to post the whole Supplement here, but I attach
the Editorial, which introduces some important new information
on Trindade. More will follow, and we hope the person or group
which holds the amazing revelations hinted at by Jerome Clark
will see fit to publish them soon.

MAGONIA Supplement No. 46
March 2002

EDITORIAL

We are often told that the UFO is not a modern myth because
there are reliable reports of mysterious structured craft,
sometimes seen by many witnesses. Yet when these UFO stories are
subjected to critical examination, they nearly always reveal
fatal flaws. They turn out to be obvious hoaxes, or they contain
contradictions or untruths; where there are said to be many
witnesses their statements somehow never seem to be available.

Some good examples of this sort of nonsense have featured on the
UFO UpDates mailing list recently. One was a discussion of the
Trans-en- Provence case which is apparently one of the great
"classics" of American nuts-and-bolts ufology, presumably
because the physical evidence indicated the landing of a genuine
UFO, according to some investigators. The believers either
didn't know, or didn't want to know, about the work of less
credulous (or more honest?) investigators.

Richard Hall stoutly defended this case against the sceptics,
who pointed out that it was reported by a single, unreliable
witness. When his attention was drawn to the detailed critical
study of the case by French ufologist Eric Maillot, he replied
that he couldn't read French. A French-speaking Canadian
promptly offered to translate it for him. This must have helped
the argument along, you might think. But, no, the list members
moved on to other topics and no more was said about it.

Similarly, discussion of the allegedly multi-witness Trindade
Island case, with its allegedly genuine photographs of a
"structured craft", also petered out, with the promise of future
revelations which would prove that it was genuine. So far the
only things said in support of the case have been assurances
that it is genuine, but no evidence has been supplied. However,
we have received a 36,000 word report (in Spanish) by Luis Ruiz
Noguez, who concludes that the evidence indicates that the
Trindade case was a hoax.

For example, he notes that the Brazilian newspapers O Cruzeiro,
and O Globo, which he describes as "one of the best and most
serious in Brazil", both agree that no officer or sailor in the
training ship Almirante Saldanha witnessed the UFO. And,
according to O Cruzeiro, Barauna, Amilar Vieira Filho, and Jose
Teobaldo Viegas (all members of the Club Icarai) were the only
persons on deck at the time of the alleged incident.

So, beware of imaginary multiple witnesses and physical evidence
of the activities of hoaxers.

John Harney

--
John Rimmer
Magonia Magazine
www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/00/newmag.htm







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   Mar > Mar 30

                      Don Johnson's UFO-Wave Prediction

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 23:06:34 +0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 22:22:38 -0500
Subject: Don Johnson's UFO-Wave Prediction


Well, folks, here it is the end of the month and I see no sign
of any sighting wave or increase of sightings suggestive of any
such thing. Theoretically, the news media obsession with the
"war of U.S. aggression" could be masking some upturn in
sightings, but I don't think so.

The internet provides us with a major alternative channel of
information (no matter how reliable or unreliable) and it has
not given us any information to even tentatively support the
prediction so far as I know.

Anyone with information to the contrary please speak up.

Any comments Don Johnson?

What should we conclude from this apparent disconfirmation of
your hypothesis?


  - Dick










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             Re: Brazil: The Most Amazing Hoax Of All - Gevaerd

From: A. J. Gevaerd <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 06:55:58 -0300
Fwd Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 10:29:58 -0500
Subject: Re: Brazil: The Most Amazing Hoax Of All - Gevaerd


 >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 06:12:32 -0800
 >Subject: Re: Brazil: The Most Amazing Hoax Of All


 >Dear AJ:

 >A few questions here:

Dear Larry,

You pose good questions, which I will try to answer below.

 >1) If Urandir and his space aliens replace the existing (more or
 >less Roman) alphabet with a new one, will it be harder or easier
 >to read Portugues?   I always liked the Brazil '66 song "Shove
 >Shuuuva" [Constant Rain] but the Brazilian spelling makes that
 >confusing to a yankee.

Hehehe. The music is "chove chuva", or "the rain rains..."

 >2] Are the plates circular, square, rectangular or some other
 >general shape?  If rectangular, are there slots permitting them
 >to be placed on cars and trucks like regular state/national
 >vehicle license plates?

The shapes are irregular.

 >3) If the people paying hundreds of dollars each for these
 >special plates, put them on their cars and trucks, will that
 >exempt them from regular government license plates, or will they
 >be forced to pay vehicle taxes as an extra burden?

The plates are not intended to put in cars, as they are made of
terracota.

 >4) Does Linda Moulton Howe have one of these plates?  If so,
 >what is the number of such a plate?  Do the numbers glow in the
 >dark?

Very good questions.

 >5] If shaped like dinner plates, are they safe to use with
 >ordinary family meals?

Well, extraterrestrial dinner plates?...

However, the greatest questions of all are: "

Did LMH know that her new friend is capable of inventing stories
such as this before deciding to support his claimed abduction?"

And, if so, why would a respected UFO researcher or journalist
support a man who invents tales like that?.

Or, if not so, what would she do when she knew what kind of
bogus stories her new friend is capable of inveting?


A. J.







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                      Media Alert 'SCI FI Declassified'

From: Larry Landsman <Larry.Landsman@unistudios.com>
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 10:41:37 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 10:35:12 -0500
Subject: Media Alert 'SCI FI Declassified'


SCI FI Declassified
Tuesdays from 8-11 PM ET/PT

SCI FI taps into the public's fascination with unexplained
phenomena in SCI FI Declassified. Starting Tuesday, April 15 @ 8
PM ET/PT, the three-hour block features a diverse array of non-
  fiction programming that explores topics like UFOs, crop
circles, ghosts, government conspiracy and ESP.

Also, tune-in on Tuesday, April 29 @ 9 PM for the World Premiere
of 'Crop Circles: Quest for Truth', a two-hour film from Academy
Award-nominated director William Gazecki, which takes an
in-depth look at the phenomenon.








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                  Argentina: New Mutilations in Rio Cuarto

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 09:51:21 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 10:37:58 -0500
Subject: Argentina: New Mutilations in Rio Cuarto


Dear Friends of Inexplicata,

The following message, labelled urgent, was received from  our
colleague Mario Luis Bracamonte of the COR organization (Circulo
Ovnilogico Riocuartense):

===================

We are informing you that we have become aware of a mutilation
case involving a horse within our sphere of coverage.

The initial data in our possession suggests that a mare turned
up dead with mutilations on its jawbone. No traces of blood were
found and the incisions practiced on the tissue were perfectly
cauterized. The animal belonged to livestock rancher Daniel
Godoy, whose property is located 7 km. SE of the town of Villa
Valeria in the Province of Cordoba, Argentina, some 120 km SE of
Rio Cuarto, along Rt. 35 which links Cordoba to La Pampa.

Initial information states that the animal did not suffer from
any illnesses whatsoever beyond some slight hip problems. Police
personnel from Villa Valeria were at the scene, and no report
whatsoever has been produced to date. An effort is being made to
secure particulars.

=============
Translation (C) 2003 Scott Corrales IHU








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                      Re: Magonia Supplement 46 - Clark

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 09:47:17 -0600
Fwd Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 10:47:33 -0500
Subject: Re: Magonia Supplement 46 - Clark


 >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 12:13:04 +0100
 >Subject: Magonia Supplement 46

 >Supplement 46 is now on the Magonia website at:

 >http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/00/supp46.htm

 >Main aticles are Martin Kottmeyer on whether the 9/11 tragedy
 >had any effect on UFO sightings, and Matt Graeber looks at
 >Mothman, with an account of a remarkable personal experience.

 >It is too long to post the whole Supplement here, but I attach
 >the Editorial, which introduces some important new information
 >on Trindade. More will follow, and we hope the person or group
 >which holds the amazing revelations hinted at by Jerome Clark
 >will see fit to publish them soon.

Thank you for thinking of me, John. As I have had occasion to
point out in the past on more than one occasion, no issue of
Magonia, its supplement, its editors, or its occasional other
public commique is complete without a mention of the
undersigned. It is especially remarkable, given the grim world
situation and so many larger, more worrisome matters afloat,
that I am still thought of and remembered.


Your humble servant,

Jerry Clark








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              Re: Brazil: The Most Amazing Hoax Of All - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 11:05:28 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 18:07:16 -0500
Subject: Re: Brazil: The Most Amazing Hoax Of All - Hatch


 >From: A. J. Gevaerd <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 06:55:58 -0300
 >Subject: Re: Brazil: The Most Amazing Hoax Of All

 >>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 06:12:32 -0800
 >>Subject: Re: Brazil: The Most Amazing Hoax Of All

 >>Dear AJ:

 >>A few questions here:

 >Dear Larry,

 >You pose good questions, which I will try to answer below.

 >>1) If Urandir and his space aliens replace the existing (more or
 >>less Roman) alphabet with a new one, will it be harder or easier
 >>to read Portugues?  I always liked the Brazil '66 song "Shove
 >>Shuuuva" [Constant Rain] but the Brazilian spelling makes that
 >>confusing to a yankee.

 >Hehehe. The music is "chove chuva", or "the rain rains..."

There. I knew I could not spell it properly.

"Constant Rain" is the title I saw on the record album here
about 37 years ago. "Rainy Rain" or the like, would sound odd in
English.

Terra cotta plates? For hundreds of dollars each? For that price
they should be made of polished unobtainium inlaid with updock.

I do hope LMH is advised. Somehow I expect profound silence
about the terra cotta plates being sold.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch







   UFO UpDates
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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Mar > Mar 31

                      Re: To Mars By A-Bomb - Goldstein

From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 23:25:33 +0200
Fwd Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 18:21:03 -0500
Subject: Re: To Mars By A-Bomb - Goldstein


 >From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@charter.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 20:35:17 -0800
 >Subject: Re: To Mars By A-Bomb

 >>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 19:01:03 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: To Mars By A-Bomb

 >>>From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@charter.net>
 >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 21:47:31 -0800
 >>>Subject: Re: To Mars By A-Bomb

 ><snip>

 >>>There was also the NERVA project that had a running nuclear
 >>>rocket that was a violation of the test ban treaty. so it never
 >>>was even considered. As I understand.

 >>>My problem is if we had carried all the projects that were
 >>>sucessful in the 50's and 60's to fruition, we'd be on Mars now
 >>>trying to figure out how to get Alpha Centauri.

 >>Certainly there has been plenty of discussion of Project Orion
 >>over the years. But NERVA had nothing to do with nuclear
 >>explosions.

 >>Many NERVA type systems were ground tested in the 1960s.
 >>Hydrogen cooled reactor... no oxidiser. Biggest was Phoebus 2B
 >>built by Los Alamos. It was operated at a power level of 4400
 >>megawatts or twice that of the Point Lepreau Nuclear Generating
 >>station here in New Brunswick.

 >>The program was cancelled because there was no leadership by
 >>NASA and no mission.

 >>It had about twice the specific impulse of a chemical rocket but
 >>was _not_ designed for use as a first stage launch vehicle.
 >>Thrust was too low... About 350,000 pounds vs. 6 Million for
 >>Saturn V.

 >>But for a third stage for a manned mission to Mars or earth
 >>orbit lunar orbit etc. would have been good. The test plan
 >>treaty did stop testing of an Orion system but would not apply
 >>to a NERVA (KIWI, NRX, XE etc) system. No nuclear explosions.

 >>One of the big thrills of my professional career was real time
 >>listening as we at Westinghouse Astronuclear tested the NRX A-6
 >>(Jackass Flats, Nevada) and it went the full time at design. My
 >>experiments went well. Temperatures and pressures. Power level
 >>was 1100 Megawatts.

 >Thanks for setting me straight, I thought NERVA was affected by
 >the Test Ban Treaty. That makes it even worse. No leadership. no
 >progress.

 >GT McCoy

 >Frusterated Spaceman

Hi GT,

That NERVA project had promise. But Stan, that would have been
our loss, as the NERVA would hav e given you nuch work and you
probably would have had no time for Ufology.The Orion would have
given the term blastoff real meaning. I imagine that a ship
blasting off from the explosion of a 0.1 kiloton nule bomb from
the Nuclear Test site would have been beyond anything that has
emerged from Area 51 and would have been more spectacular than
the Saturn V launch I witnessed.

John Auchettel, I really worked for NASM and my boss really was
the astronaut Michael Collins, check the records. I did get
passes to watch launches from the VIP area at Kennedy. Of course
that was after the nuke days and I never saw a nuke test. If you
want a nuke experience I would recommend the DVD of the H bomb
explosions in the Pacific that is narrated by William Shattner,
and ironically the score is perfomed by the Moscow Philharmonic
Orchestra in surround sound. A real blast.

GT, please don't feel frustrated. NASA will have the Prometheus
project and maybe you can become an astronaut as a stowaway.
Just don't hide in the reactor.


Time for blastoff,

Josh