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   Apr

                          UFO UpDates Mailing List
                                  Apr 2003

  Apr 1:

   Secrecy News -- 04/01/03 - Steven Aftergood [124]
   Pravda On Saddam's UFO - Karl Rotstan [128]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 14 - John Hayes [229]

  Apr 2:

   Flares Over Basra - Don Ledger [8]
   Re: Pravda On Saddam's UFO - Hatch - Larry Hatch [43]
   Telling Tales - UFO UpDates - Toronto [105]
   Seth Shostak: The Search for Extraterrestrial Life - UFO UpDates -
   Toronto [86]
   Re: Flares Over Basra - Hamilton - Bill Hamilton [21]
   Filer's Files #14 -- 2003 - George A. Filer [454]
   Re: Flares Over Basra - King - Tom King [36]
   Re: Don Johnson's UFO-Wave Prediction - King - Tom King [27]
   Re: Flares Over Basra - Fortson - Mike Fortson [52]
   Re: Flares Over Basra - Ledger - Don Ledger [36]
   Strange Sightings Over Washington Beltway - Ray Stanford [145]
   Re: Flares Over Basra - Young - Kenny Young [33]
   Flares Over Basra - Stuart - Chaz Stuart [19]
   Re: Pravda On Saddam's UFO - Goldstein - Josh Goldstein [83]
   Secrecy News -- 04/02/03 - Steven Aftergood [139]
   Re: Strange Sightings Over Washington Beltway - - Erik Landahl [7]
   Re: Flares Over Basra - Hamilton - Bill Hamilton [39]
   Re: Flares Over Basra - Hamilton - Bill Hamilton [41]
   Re: Flares Over Basra - Fortson - Mike Fortson [58]
   Re: Flares Over Basra - Ledger - Don Ledger [71]
   Re: Flares Over Basra - Ledger - Don Ledger [51]
   Re: Flares Over Basra - Ledger - Don Ledger [29]

  Apr 3:

   Re: Pravda On Saddam's UFO - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [38]
   Re: Flares Over Basra - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [35]
   Re: Flares Over Basra - King - Tom King [78]
   Inexplicata Site Moving - Scott Corrales [15]
   Re: Strange Sightings Over Washington Beltway - - Bruce Maccabee [9]
   Re: Flares Over Basra - Hamilton - Bill Hamilton [66]
   Phoenix Lights Redux [was: Flares Over Basra] - Bill Hamilton [58]
   Interview With Chilean UFO Witness - Scott Corrales [59]
   Re: Strange Sightings Over Washington Beltway - - David Thomson [14]
   Re: Phoenix Lights Redux [was: Flares Over Basra] - Bruce Maccabee [32]
   Re: Phoenix Lights Redux [was: Flares Over Basra] - Mike Fortson [34]
   Re: Phoenix Lights Redux [was: Flares Over Basra - - Don Ledger [26]
   Re: Strange Sightings Over Washington Beltway - - Ray Stanford [35]
   Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Stuart - Chaz Stuart [30]

  Apr 4:

   Rods On Iraq War2 TV Footage - Colin Stevenson [11]
   Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Hamilton - Bill Hamilton [67]
   Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [39]
   Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Tom King [49]
   Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - King - Tom King [92]
   Secrecy News -- 04/04/03 - Steven Aftergood [96]
   SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line - UFO UpDates - Toronto [6]
   Straight And Crooked - UFO UpDates - Toronto [160]
   Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Hamilton - Bill Hamilton [112]
   Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Hamilton - Bill Hamilton [32]
   Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Hamilton - Bill Hamilton [52]
   Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Stanford - Ray Stanford [26]
   Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas
   [22]

  Apr 5:

   Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Aldrich-Halfin - Joyce Aldrich-Halfin [41]
   Re: Strange Sightings Over Washington Beltway - - Bruce Maccabee [23]
   Phoenix Lights Stupor - Jim Kelly [44]
   Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [30]
   Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [27]
   Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line - - Michel M. Deschamps [32]
   Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Hatch - Larry Hatch [47]
   Re: Strange Sightings Over Washington Beltway - - Larry Hatch [32]
   Re: Phoenix Lights Stupor - Hamilton - Bill Hamilton [68]
   FOIA Request To FBI Headquarters - Larry W. Bryant [25]
   Gulf Breeze Photo Analysis Update - Ben Holland [6]
   Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line - - Geoff Richardson [34]
   Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - King - Tom King [168]
   Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - King - Tom King [52]
   Re: Phoenix Lights Stupor - King - Tom King [66]
   Phoenix Lights Videos - Geoff Richardson [4]
   For The Military Conspiracy People - Tom King [20]
   UFO Spectro-Photography [was: Phoenix Lights Redux] - Ray Stanford
   [126]

  Apr 6:

   Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line - Hall - Richard Hall [53]
   Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line - Ledger - Don Ledger [42]
   Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Hamilton - Bill Hamilton [31]
   Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Hamilton - Bill Hamilton [56]
   Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Gates - Robert Gates [41]
   Tools For UFO Research - Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos [22]
   Request For Info - Tim Edwards [20]
   French Researcher Hunts For Chupacabras - Scott Corrales [84]
   Re: Filer's Files #14 -- 2003 - Joe McGonagle [34]
   Javascript Report Evaluator & UFO Size Estimator - Terry Groff [31]
   Re: For The Military Conspiracy People - Hebert - Amy Hebert [82]
   CI: New Animation Highlights Cydonia 'Urban - Mac Tonnies [30]
   Mystery Of Gobbler's Rock - Kelly Peterborough [152]
   Re: For The Military Conspiracy People - Ledger - Don Ledger [45]
   Re: Greer Interview 'Free Energy Breakthrough' - - Larry Hatch [113]

  Apr 7:

   Italian UFO TV Program - Philip Mantle [24]
   Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line - Ledger - Don Ledger [42]
   New Betty Hill Video Interview - Avis Ruffu [11]
   Secrecy News -- 04/07/03 - Steven Aftergood [129]
   Re: Request For Info - Sandow - Greg Sandow [28]
   CFI-Podesta/Mattoon Follow-Up - John [69]
   Re: Mystery Of Gobbler's Rock - Groff - Terry Groff [24]
   Boylan, Rodwell and Innocent Children - John Velez [55]
   Re: UFO Spectro-Photography - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [24]
   The Hunt For The Chupacabras Is On - Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo [132]
   Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line - Hamilton - Bill Hamilton
   [37]
   EBE-ET Address - Thiago Luiz Ticchetti [11]
   Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line - Stanford - Ray Stanford
   [198]
   Re: Request For Info - Harney - John Harney [16]
   Re: Boylan, Rodwell and Innocent Children - - Ray Stanford [21]
   Re: UFO Spectro-Photography - Stanford - Ray Stanford [25]
   Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line - Hall - Richard Hall [55]
   Angela Bowie Recalls UFO Crash Near Detroit? - Todd Lemire [12]
   Re: Boylan, Rodwell and Innocent Children - Gates - Robert Gates [34]
   Re: For The Military Conspiracy People - Gates - Robert Gates [69]
   Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [18]

  Apr 8:

   Re: CFI-Podesta/Mattoon Follow-Up - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [32]
   Re: Boylan, Rodwell and Innocent Children - Keith - Rebecca Keith [22]
   Re: Boylan, Rodwell and Innocent Children - - Josh Goldstein [62]
   Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line - Ledger - Don Ledger [62]
   NASA Posts Thousands Of New Mars Images - Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas
   [27]
   Re: For The Military Conspiracy People - Hebert - Amy Hebert [61]
   Re: For The Military Conspiracy People - Hebert - Amy Hebert [13]
   Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Hamilton - Bill Hamilton [35]
   Re: Boylan, Rodwell and Innocent Children - Carter - Janet Carter [39]
   Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Fortson - Mike Fortson [29]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 15 - John Hayes [244]
   T-1206? - Chris Rutkowski [5]
   Re: For The Military Conspiracy People - Ledger - Don Ledger [25]
   Re: UFO Spectro-Photography - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [30]
   Re: The Hunt For The Chupacabras Is On - Richardson - Geoff Richardson
   [12]
   Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line - Stanford - Ray Stanford [29]
   Re: CFI-Podesta/Mattoon Follow-Up - Velez - John Velez [48]
   Press Release - Frivolous Litigation Fails - Royce J. Myers III - The
   Watchdog [79]
   Re: CFI-Podesta/Mattoon Follow-Up - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [43]
   Contact... A Half Century Later - UFO UpDates - Toronto [501]
   Re: Boylan, Rodwell and Innocent Children - Hall - Richard Hall [43]
   Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [22]
   Re: CFI-Podesta/Mattoon Follow-Up - Aldrich - Jan Aldrich [87]
   How Will Aliens View Human Race? - UFO UpDates - Toronto [44]
   Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line - Hall - Richard Hall [58]

  Apr 9:

   Re: Press Release - Frivolous Litigation Fails - - GT McCoy [16]
   Re: For The Military Conspiracy People - Hebert - Amy Hebert [50]
   Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 15 - Hatch - Larry Hatch [21]
   Re: Press Release - Frivolous Litigation Fails - - A. J. Gevaerd [31]
   Loftus Faces Pending Lawsuit - UFO UpDates - Toronto [109]
   Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 15 - Landahl - Erik Landahl [32]
   Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Hamilton - Bill Hamilton [41]
   Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line - Stanford - Ray Stanford
   [149]
   Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Gates - Robert Gates [40]

  Apr 10:

   Re: Press Release - Frivolous Litigation Fails - - Robert Gates [17]
   Re: CFI-Podesta/Mattoon Follow-Up - Gates - Robert Gates [30]
   Filer's Files #15 -- 2003 - George A. Filer [511]
   Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line - Stanford - Ray Stanford [11]
   Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line - Hall - Richard Hall [177]
   Re: Press Release - Frivolous Litigation Fails - - Steve in Bama [17]
   Secrecy News -- 04/10/03 - Steven Aftergood [125]
   Could Peer Review Be Wrong? - UFO UpDates - Toronto [107]
   Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line - Stanford - Ray Stanford
   [300]
   New Evidence: Ancient Indian Science of Space - UFO UpDates - Toronto
   [35]
   I've Had My Phil, And Other Stories - Richard Hall [28]

  Apr 11:

   Re: Filer's Files #15 -- 2003 - Stanford - Ray Stanford [18]
   Ann Druffel's 'Firestorm:...' - Stan Friedman [30]
   DOI/BLM Falls On Its FOIA-Processing Sword - Larry W. Bryant [116]
   Re: Press Release - Frivolous Litigation Fails - - Royce J. Myers III -
   The Watchdog [80]
   New Programs On Sci-Fi - Tim Edwards [61]
   Re: Ann Druffell's 'Firestorm:...' - Ledger - Don Ledger [28]
   Request For A FOIA-Fee Waiver From DOI/BLM - Larry W. Bryant [55]

  Apr 12:

   Mysterious Lights In The Sky 02-27-1913 - Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas
   [31]
   Re: Ann Druffell's 'Firestorm:...' - Bott - Murray Bott [15]
   Sincere Thanks From ufowatchdog.com - Royce J. Myers III - The Watchdog
   [51]
   A (Buried) Mea Culpa From BLM - Larry W. Bryant [58]
   Re: Ann Druffell's 'Firestorm:...' - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [13]
   Re: Ann Druffell's 'Firestorm:...' - Hatch - Larry Hatch [25]
   Re: Ann Druffell's 'Firestorm:...' - Stanford - Ray Stanford [29]
   Looking For Bonnybridge Photo - Chris Burns [20]
   Genie Has Escaped The DOI/BLM Bottle - FOIA Appeal - Larry W. Bryant
   [65]
   Re: Ann Druffell's 'Firestorm:...' - Hall - Richard Hall [31]

  Apr 13:

   Edwards AFB 1965 - Joachim Koch [14]
   Re: Ann Druffell's 'Firestorm:...' - Hatch - Larry Hatch [24]
   Re: Ann Druffell's 'Firestorm:...' - Rubtsov - Vladimir Rubtsov [34]
   1965 North Atlantic Radar Case? - Ole Henningsen [14]

  Apr 14:

   Secrecy News -- 04/14/03 - Steven Aftergood [114]
   Re: 965 North Atlantic Radar Case? - Terry Groff [18]
   Problem With EBE-ET Website - Thiago Luiz Ticchetti [12]
   UFO Duck Hunting! - Ray Stanford [38]
   Argentina: Mutilated Animals Found Near Cuchillo Co - Scott Corrales
   [57]
   Re: 1965 North Atlantic Radar Case? - Pope - Nick Pope [26]
   Re: Edwards AFB 1965 - Hatch - Larry Hatch [24]
   Re: Ann Druffell's 'Firestorm:...' - Velez - John Velez [50]
   Hickson Recounts His Book On UFO - UFO UpDates - Toronto [48]
   Article: Bob Rickard, Editor Of Fortean Times - UFO UpDates - Toronto
   [79]
   Re: UFO Duck Hunting! - King - Tom King [49]

  Apr 15:

   Houston, British Columbia - 04-14 - Brian Vike [61]
   Re: UFO Duck Hunting! - Yturria - Santiago Yturria [81]
   Re: UFO Duck Hunting! - McCoy - GT McCoy [25]
   Secrecy News -- 04/14/03 - Steven Aftergood [132]
   'Pentagram'-Borne Penetration Into UFO Coverup - Larry W. Bryant [31]
   Tonight On SciFi - 04-15-03 - UFO UpDates - Toronto [10]
   Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - King - Tom King [12]
   Re: UFO Duck Hunting! - Hebert - Amy Hebert [40]
   Re: UFO Duck Hunting! - Stanford - Ray Stanford [103]
   Re: UFO Duck Hunting! - Stanford - Ray Stanford [13]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 16 - John Hayes [320]
   Media Notice - 'The Secret' - Stephen G. Bassett [65]
   Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [17]
   Re: Filer's Files #15 -- 2003 - Oberg - James Oberg [33]
   Vanished Tourists/Strange Parallel - Mac Tonnies [16]

  Apr 16:

   Re: UFO Duck Hunting! - Yturria - Santiago Yturria [36]
   Re: Media Notice - 'The Secret' - Kimball - Paul Kimball [72]
   Re: Vanished Tourists/Strange Parallel - Tonnies - Mac Tonnies [21]
   'Contact of the Fifth Kind' (Review) - Mac Tonnies [19]
   Re: Vanished Tourists/Strange Parallel - Spivey - Walt Spivey,Jr. [7]
   Re: Filer's Files #15 -- 2003 - Alevy - Gary Alevy [52]
   Re: Vanished Tourists/Strange Parallel - Thompson - Paul B. Thompson
   [25]
   Re: UFO Duck Hunting! - Hebert - Amy Hebert [68]
   Sci-Fi's Blitzkrieg Of UFO Lies & Dis-Information - John Velez [36]
   Re: Media Notice - 'The Secret' - Aldrich - Jan Aldrich [78]
   Re: Filer's Files #15 -- 2003 - Stanford - Ray Stanford [53]
   Re: Filer's Files #15 -- 2003 - Oberg - James Oberg [20]
   Re: Filer's Files #15 -- 2003 - Ledger - Don Ledger [84]
   Re: Sci-Fi's Blitzkrieg Of UFO Lies & - Terry Groff [16]
   Re: Sci-Fi's Blitzkrieg Of UFO Lies & - Ray Stanford [22]
   Re: Filer's Files #15 -- 2003 - Gehrman - Ed Gehrman [50]
   Secrecy News -- 04/16/03 - Steven Aftergood [108]
   Re: Sci-Fi's Blitzkreig of UFO Lies & - Paul Kimball [30]
   Re: Sci-Fi's Blitzkrieg Of UFO Lies & - Steven Kaeser [65]
   Re: Media Notice - 'The Secret' - Kimball - Paul Kimball [49]
   Re: Re: Media Notice - 'The Secret' - Warren - Frank Warren [34]
   Re: Media Notice - 'The Secret' - Friedman - Stan Friedman [119]
   Filer's Files #16 -- 2003 - George A. Filer [497]
   New Look At Mystery Flashes - UFO UpDates - Toronto [102]
   Why Life Could Not Have Come From Outer Space - UFO UpDates - Toronto
   [136]
   3 Cows & Bull Calf Mutilated Patrol Says - UFO UpDates - Toronto [55]

  Apr 17:

   Processing FOIA Request 03-21-03 To ICAF-NDU - Larry W. Bryant [49]
   Re: Media Notice - 'The Secret' - Aldrich - Jan Aldrich [62]
   Re: Sci-Fi's Blitzkrieg Of UFO Lies & - Chris Burns [19]
   Re: Filer's Files #16 -- 2003 - Oberg - James Oberg [44]
   Re: Sci-Fi's Blitzkrieg Of UFO Lies & - Robert Gates [35]
   Re: Filer's Files #15 - 2003 - Oberg - James Oberg [38]
   Re: Filer's Files #16 -- 2003 - Friedman - Stan Friedman [60]
   Re: Filer's Files #15 - 2003 - Shough - Martin Shough [47]
   UFOs & Wars? - Thiago Luiz Ticchetti [10]
   Re: Filer's Files #15 - 2003 - Clarke - David Clarke [73]
   Re: UFOs & Wars? - Groff - Terry Groff [20]
   CCCRN News: The Prairie Circular - Spring 2003 - Paul Anderson [54]
   Re: Filer's Files #15 - 2003 - Friedman - Stanton Friedman [97]
   Re: Filer's Files #15 - 2003 - Gehrman - Ed Gehrman [33]
   Re: UFOs & Wars? - Groff - Terry Groff [20]
   Re: Filer's Files #15 - 2003 - Friedman - Stanton Friedman [97]

  Apr 18:

   Re: Sci-Fi's Blitzkrieg Of UFO Lies & - GT McCoy [19]
   CI: Iraq and Cydonia: Two New Posts - Mac Tonnies [106]
   Alexander The Great & UFOs - Mancusi - Bruno Mancusi [144]
   Re: Alexander The Great & UFOs - Groff - Terry Groff [38]
   Re: Filer's Files #15 - 2003 - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [42]
   Re: Filer's Files #15 - 2003 - Ledger - Don Ledger [58]
   Re: Alexander The Great & UFOs - Hebert - Amy Hebert [16]
   MC Target's Experience Like One Of Filer's Files - Eleanor White [52]
   Re: Ann Druffell's 'Firestorm:...' - Rubtsov - Vladimir Rubtsov [38]
   Re: Filer's Files #16 -- 2003 - Rubtsov - Vladimir Rubtsov [34]
   Re: CI: Iraq and Cydonia: Two New Posts - Adams - Eric Adams [25]
   Re: CI: Iraq and Cydonia: Two New Posts - Ledger - Don Ledger [21]
   A Couple of UFOIA Updates - Larry W. Bryant [34]
   Re: Alexander The Great & UFOs - Mancusi - Bruno Mancusi [9]
   Re: Filer's Files #16 -- 2003 - Hebert - Amy Hebert [37]
   British Columbia Sighting Reports - 03/04-03 - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO
   [99]

  Apr 19:

   Re: CI: Iraq and Cydonia: Two New Posts - Mac Tonnies [19]
   Re: CI: Iraq and Cydonia: Two New Posts - Tonnies - Mac Tonnies [37]
   Re: Alexander The Great & UFOs - Groff - Terry Groff [22]
   Re: Alexander The Great & UFOs - Hatch - Larry Hatch [99]
   Re: Filer's Files #15 - 2003 - Hatch - Larry Hatch [48]
   Magonia Exchange - Chris Aubeck [11]

  Apr 20:

   DOI Digs Its FOIA Grave Even Deeper! - Larry W. Bryant [185]
   Re: Iraq and Cydonia: Two New Posts - Owens - Steve Owens [38]
   Re: Filer's Files #15 - 2003 - Aldrich - Jan Aldrich [139]
   FOIA Appeal Of DOI-Denied Fee-Waiver Request - Larry W. Bryant [164]

  Apr 21:

   Cattle Mutilation - Electrocution - Chaz Stuart [26]
   Re: UFOs & Wars? - Garcia Blanco - Javier Garcia [16]
   Russian UFO Films And Photographs - Philip Mantle [18]
   Strange Animal Caught In Chile - Scott Corrales [31]
   Reactions To Chilean Strange Animal Mystery - Scott Corrales [37]
   Another Abduction Question - Luis R. Gonzalez [10]
   Italian UFO Newsflash No. 389 - Edoardo Russo [106]
   Russian UFO Crash? - Royce J. Myers III - The Watchdog [117]
   Could Chilean Chupacabras be a Yaguarundi? - Scott Corrales [26]
   Court Ruling Keeps Documents Confidential - Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas
   [12]
   Anomaly Sighting, Scots Bay, Nova Scotia - Don Ledger [88]
   Cattle Mutes Spur Memories Of '70S, '80S Outbreaks - UFO UpDates -
   Toronto [125]

  Apr 22:

   Hastings Making A Case For UFOs - UFO UpDates - Toronto [89]
   Re: Court Ruling Keeps Documents Confidential - - John Velez [52]
   Re: Russian UFO Crash? - Mantle - Philip Mantle [17]
   Re: Russian UFO Crash? -Gehrman - Ed Gehrman [135]
   Italian UFO Newsflash No. 390 - Edoardo Russo [106]
   Man Phoned At Home To Go UFO Hunting - Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas [41]
   HabStars: Speeding Up In the Zone - UFO UpDates - Toronto [290]

  Apr 23:

   CI: Hexagon in Cydonia? - Mac Tonnies [20]
   Re: Russian UFO Crash? - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [17]
   Re: CI: Hexagon in Cydonia? - Stanford - Ray Stanford [42]
   Houston British Columbia Report 04-23-03 - Brian Vike HBCCUFO [135]
   New INEXPLICATA Site - Scott Corrales [13]
   UFO Buzzes Chilean Pickup Truck - Scott Corrales [53]
   Argentinean "Bigfoot" Discussed On Radio Show - Scott Corrales [40]
   Re: CI: Hexagon in Cydonia? - Tonnies - Mac Tonnies [32]
   Re: UFO Buzzes Chilean Pickup Truck - Hall - Richard Hall [67]
   Filer's Files #17 -- 2003 - George A. Filer [537]
   Abduction Of Misty Jackson - Michael Harman [11]
   Supernatural Enemies - Josh Goldstein [49]
   Greek Ufologists? - Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas [2]
   Russian UFO Crash Photo? - Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas [3]

  Apr 24:

   Re: Russian UFO Crash Photo? - McCoy - GT McCoy [16]
   Re: Russian UFO Crash Photo? - Gutierez - Gregory Gutierez [37]
   Re: Russian UFO Crash Photo? - Aldrich - Jan Aldrich [23]
   Statements Against UFOs By Scientists - Ken Kelly [9]
   Re: Court Ruling Keeps Documents Confidential - - Jan Aldrich [49]
   Re: Russian UFO Crash Photo? - Stanford - Ray Stanford [17]
   Raelians On Cloning & UFOs - UFO UpDates - Toronto [55]
   Re: Statements Against UFOs By Scientists - - Ray Stanford [16]
   Captured Chilean Animal Is A 'Guina' - Scott Corrales [44]

   The number enclosed in brackets is the number of lines of new text in





   UFO UpDates
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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Apr > Apr 1

                          Secrecy News -- 04/01/03

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 10:57:51 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 16:26:24 -0500
Subject: Secrecy News -- 04/01/03


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2003, Issue No. 27
April 1, 2003


**      ACCESS TO PRESIDENTIAL RECORDS REVISITED
**      CHUCK HANSEN, NUCLEAR HISTORIAN
**      GRAHAM ON MOYNIHAN ON SECRECY
**      OFFICIAL RESOURCES


ACCESS TO PRESIDENTIAL RECORDS REVISITED

A 2001 Bush executive order that imposed new restrictions on
public access to presidential records from past administrations
would be overturned under bipartisan legislation that was
introduced in the House of Representatives last week.

A White House decision in March 2001 to defer the public
disclosure of unclassified Reagan-era records that had been
mandated by the Presidential Records Act was one of the earliest
signs of the new climate of secrecy favored by the Bush
Administration.

The November 2001 executive order 13233 on presidential records
pressed that secrecy to an outlandish extreme, proposing a novel
form of executive privilege that could be passed on to a
deceased President's descendants like some kind of hereditary
kingship.

"The Order violates not only the spirit but also the letter of
the Presidential Records Act," said Rep. Doug Ose (R-CA) last
week. "It undercuts the public's rights to be fully informed
about how its government operated in the past."

Rep. Ose and several co-sponsors of both parties reintroduced
legislation on March 27 that would legally revoke the Bush order
on presidential records.  (Prior legislation along the same
lines expired with the last Congress.)  See his introductory
statement on "Revocation of Executive Order Limiting Access to
Presidential Records" here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/2003/h032703.html


CHUCK HANSEN, NUCLEAR HISTORIAN

Chuck Hansen, a pioneering researcher into the technical history
of nuclear weapons whose creative exploitation of the Freedom of
Information Act helped open up an ocean of previously classified
historical records, died last week.

His documentary spadework quietly nurtured the burgeoning field
of nuclear history.  References to his work are commonplace in
footnotes to scholarly publications in the field and his name,
as often as not, can also be found in the authors'
acknowledgments.

Mr. Hansen's 1988 book "U.S. Nuclear Weapons: The Secret
History" came as a lightning bolt that illuminated an entire
landscape of technological endeavor, and quickly became a
collector's item. A document collection titled "Swords of
Armageddon" followed in 1995 on CD-ROM.

Mr. Hansen was not noticeably troubled by the question of the
role of declassified technical data, if any, in facilitating
nuclear weapons proliferation.  That, he seemed to feel, was
somebody else's problem.  The same perspective is apparently
shared by one  online bookseller in New York who is offering a
copy of his "U.S. Nuclear Weapons" for $595.00 with the blurb
"Buy it before Osama does!!"

There are lots of neat "Chuck Hansen stories" that deserve a
place in the social history of the Freedom of Information Act,
if such a thing is ever written.

In one remarkable episode, an FOIA request from Hansen prompted
an FBI investigation because, the government wrongly believed,
there was no legitimate way that he could have known about the
specific document that he was requesting.  See "File an FOIA
Request and Meet the FBI" in Secrecy and Government Bulletin,
Feb/Mar 1994:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/bulletin/sec32.html#4

An obituary, "C. Hansen, collected nuclear arms data" by Dan
Stober, appeared in the San Jose Mercury News, April 1:

http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/news/local/5530953.htm


GRAHAM ON MOYNIHAN ON SECRECY

"One of the most fitting tributes we could pay to Pat Moynihan
would be a heightened recognition of the damage that excessive
secrecy exacts on our Government's credibility, and to recommit
ourselves to a Government which trusts its people to know the
truth."

So said Sen. Bob Graham in an homage to Senator Daniel P.
Moynihan on the Senate floor on March 31.

While many public figures have lately spoken out in praise of
Moynihan, Senator Graham, who is expected to seek the Democratic
presidential nomination next year, is the only one who has
stressed Moynihan's work on secrecy, in what might be seen as a
bid to claim the late Senator's anti-secrecy mantle for himself.

"As a former chairman of the Senate Select Committee on
Intelligence, I can tell you that this administration is being
excessively cautious in keeping information from the American
people," Senator Graham said.  See his March 31 statement here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/2003/s033103.html


OFFICIAL RESOURCES

The Supreme Court's decision early last month to send a Freedom
of Information Act case back to a lower court (Department of
Justice v. City of Chicago) was assessed by the Justice
Department Office of Information and Privacy in "Supreme Court
Vacates and Remands in ATF Database Case," March 25 here:

http://www.usdoj.gov/oip/foiapost/2003foiapost11.htm

Presidential directives as an instrument of national policy were
discussed by information policy expert Harold C. Relyea of the
Congressional Research Service in "Presidential Directives:
Background and Overview," updated February 10:

http://www.fas.org/irp/crs/98-611.pdf

The CIA's Historical Review Panel presented recommendations to
the Director of Central Intelligence concerning "the Agency's
position that budget figures from the early years of the CIA
must remain classified," the Panel's latest report notes. Though
the report does not explicitly say so, the Panel obviously told
the DCI to modify this anachronistic position, a move that may
have legal significance as budget secrecy is litigated.  See the
latest Panel report here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/advisory/ciahrp7.html


_______________________________________________

Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood@fas.org
voice:  (202) 454-4691






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                           Pravda On Saddam's UFO

From: Karl Rotstan <krotstan@bfdmail.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 10:27:26 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 16:24:16 -0500
Subject: Pravda On Saddam's UFO


If it's Pravda, it must be the truth.

Source: http://english.pravda.ru/main/2003/01/31/42821.html

13:47 2003-01-31

Is Hussein Owner of Crashed UFO?

An UFO-related incident that occurred four years ago poses a
troubling question whether any kind of cooperation is possible
between Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein and extraterrestrials,
UFOlogist Joseph Trainor declared in his review UFO Roundup
(issue 51 of December 17, 2002). On December 16, 1998, during
Operation Desert Fox against Iraq, a video clip aired on CNN
showed a UFO hovering over Baghdad; it moved away to avoid a
stream of tracer anti-aircraft fire. At that time we all thought
it was another UFO sighting, although captured on videotape. But
now, ufologists think it was much more than a mere incident.

Jack Sarfatti reported that Friday evening, December 6, 2002
someone called the Art Bell radio show, claimed his connection
with the military and informed that a UFO crashed in Iraq
several years ago. The USA is currently searching for any
pretext to invade Iraq. In fact, the USA is motivated by the
greatest fear that Saddam will reverse-engineer the crashed
alien spacecraft.

It is allegedly said that the craft crashed during the Gulf War
(1990-1991), or more recently (probably in December 1998). This
became some kind of Iraq s Rosewell. The USA is currently
reverse-engineering the Rosewell craft and fears that Saddam s
scientists may become even more successful than Americans in
this or that sphere. It was said that these researches may give
Iraq a considerable advance and even make it a leading super
power.

UFO Roundup's Arab journalists failed either to confirm or to
deny these rumors. Aiasha al-Hatabi replied to Joseph Trainor
that he heard nothing about a UFO crash in Iraq. In the words of
Mohammed Daud al-Hayyat, there are talks about extraterrestrials
in Iraq, but nothing is said about any crash. It is rumored at a
market in Sulaimaniya, to the south of Zarzi, that aliens are
Saddam s guests. Where do they stay then? People mention some
underground base. But Saddam has a palace in this valley, an old
stronghold Qalaat-e-Julundi. Earlier it belonged to the royal
family. After the revolution, the government took possession of
the fortress, and now, like every palace in Iraq it is a summer
residence of Saddam Hussein. The fortress is mentioned here for
a very simple reason: it is practically impossible to penetrate
into it. The citadel stands on a hill surrounded with vertical
precipices on three sides; the precipices plunge down to the
Little Zab river. It is said that Saddam lets aliens stay there.

Mohammed Hajj al-Amdar said on the basis of strange stories
coming out of that valley: Saddam gave the aliens sanctuary, so
that they couldn t be captured by Americans. Nobody can reach
the citadel Qalaat-e-Julundi at night. They say that the aliens
created watchdogs for Saddam. The aliens took ordinary desert
scorpions and used their bio-engineering to grow the scorpions
to giant size. Scorpions of a cow-size! They are wonderful
watchdogs: they blend in with the desert, swiftly and silently
move on their warm-blooded prey for a decisive attack. Luckless
intruders hear just some strange sound from behind stones, then
a pincer crushes their necks, another pincer crushes their legs;
then the victims is slammed to the ground and beaten with a
barbed tail six or seven times. Death comes almost immediately.

Joseph Trainor came to a conclusion that something strange is
actually happening in the valley of the Little Zab river, but it
is not clear what exactly. It is not ruled out that Saddam
intentionally spreads these rumors so that to scare people away
from some important military object located in the old fortress
of Qalaat-e-Julundi.

Nevertheless, it is not the only information about a UFO crash
in that area. Many years ago, on June 20, 1993, an information
was published on FIDOnet s MUFONET BBS NETWORK, it was a letter
of some Steve from Britain. He openly warned: The following
information was published in Amateur Radio Packet BBS on June 13
by some short-wave transmitter for spreading all over the world.
I know nothing about the man who published the information, I
also cannot say whether his information is true. The man
reported that some aircraft was found after it was brought down
by F-16 over Saudi Arabia during raids in Baghdad.

The information itself said: A high-ranking source admitted that
US Air Force s F-16 brought down a UFO over Saudi Arabia during
the Operation Desert Storm, and five countries are trying to
conceal information about this fact. I don t know details, but
it was some plane unknown to me. Saudis who were with me at that
moment, were scared so much that they asked American, British
and French investigators to come to the crash site immediately.

Colonel Petrokov said that at that moment he was on a visit to
Er Riyadh, where together with a Russian group he managed to
examine the crashed aircraft before American troops
participating in Desert Storm came to the crash site. He said:
The aircraft was round and made of some material that I never
saw myself. About one third of the craft was torn out by blasts
of American missiles. Saudis didn t let us touch anything, but
we managed to see appliances, mechanisms and other things that
bewildered us absolutely. Inscriptions on the control panel and
on the scales were in some unknown language.

It was a relatively small craft, of approximately 15 feet in
diameter. It had three chairs, probably for crew members, but
they were so small as if meant for children. To all appearance,
space aliens were just about three feet tall. However, it seems
incredible that there were no dead bodies at the crash site;
what is more, nothing that might look like an engine was found
there as well. Probably American missiles hit the engine
immediately and destroyed it. Later, operators of Saudi radar
stations told me that no ejection or falling of some subjects
out of the craft was registered. Searching helicopters surveyed
the desert, but the pilots failed to find any surviving crew
member close to the crash site.

At the radar station Petrokov learnt that the target identified
as a UFO emerged from nowhere when four F-16 headed for Baghdad.
One of the American planes broke the line and directed toward
the UFO. The alien craft started moving south-west, away from
the American plane, and the latter pursued it. When the F-16 was
three miles away from the object, the craft fired at it but
missed. Then the American plane fired a missile at the UFO. A
horrifying sound followed and the spacecraft dropped on the
ground. Petrokov says that when American investigators came to
the crash site, he and his people were ordered to leave the area
for Er Riyadh. The colonel says, it is highly likely that
Americans didn t want others see some other things that were in
the crash site in addition to the round shape of the craft made
of some unknown material and the fact that no aliens survived
after the crash.

In Petrokov s words, people from his team managed to take
pictures of the site, and neither Saudis nor Americans noticed
it. But the next day the team was ordered to bring the pictures
to Russian authorities. American military engineers gathered all
wreckage and removed them for further study in the USA.

This story seems to be absolutely unlikely. As we see, the
source of the information is just a Russian colonel, some
Petrokov. If no additional information follows in connection
with the case, it may be still considered just doubtful
anonymous rumors.






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   Apr > Apr 1

                       UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 14

From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 15:08:43 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 16:51:05 -0500
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 14


Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor.

<Masinaigan@aol.com>
==========================

       UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 8, Number 14
April 2, 2003
Editor: Joseph Trainor
E-mail: Masinaigan@aol.com

http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/


STRANGE TALES OF GULF WAR 2

       Some very unusual stories are coming out of Gulf War
2, the current conflict in Iraq.  Here are a few of them:
       (1) Veiled Reference to Zarzi? - On Tuesday, March
25, 2003, BBC World Service carried a speech by a
spokesman for the regime of embattled Iraqi dictator
Saddam Hussein.  At one point, the Iraqi spokesman,
commenting upon the "shock and awe" bombing of Baghdad,
said, "Even the people of other planets...if they
exist...are against this war."
       "Who are these 'people of other planets?'" asked
Ayesha al-Khatabi, one of UFO Roundup's Middle East
correspondents.  "Some ufologists in our region believe
this is a reference to the aliens to whom Saddam gave
sanctuary a few years ago.  They are alleged to be at the
underground base in Zarzi or at the old citadel of Qalaat-
e-Julundi," both located in the upper Little Zab valley
near the Kurdish zone.
       (2) Message from Beyond - On Saturday, March 22,
2003, Christian seeress Annelore Sent reported, "Then the
Holy Spirit directed me toward the north of Iraq and began
deep, heavy intercession, calling for a Shield of
Protection.  To where it found, apparently, the greatest
and real danger to our troops landing in the north of
Iraq, where Saddam has apparently set a trap for our
troops."
(Editor's Comment:  Another possible reference to the
Zarzi aliens?)
       (3) Still Hunting for Osama - In his column News of
the Weird, Chuck Shepherd reported, "Top Pentagon and CIA
officials met with the author of The Bible Code, who said
Osama Bin Laden's whereabouts can be detected by
connecting letters from ancient Hebrew."
       (4) Following in Grandma's Footsteps - A German
architect named Karl Esser gave an interview in Munich
last week, in which he claimed "that he helped a company
design a bunker under Saddam Hussein's palace in Baghdad
in the early 1980s that is likely to withstand even the
newest non-nuclear bombs."
       Besser designed the mammoth bunker, which is located
100 meters (330 feet) beneath Saddam Hussein's palace in
Baghdad.  He said the bunker "is able to withstand
simultaneous strikes by up to 16 American cruise
missiles."  He also said he doubts any American bombs "can
breach the bunker, which extends more than 19,400 square
feet, has a ceiling up to 2 meters (6 feet, 6 inches)
thick and two exit tunnels."
       "Esser said he planned most of the bunker, organizing
the delivery of equipment such as an air supply system,
power generators and heavy doors used to seal the shelter.
It was completed in 1984 and cost $60 million, he said."
       Bunker-building apparently runs in the family.  Sixty
years ago, in the 1940s, Esser's grandmother, also an
architect, worked for the Organisation Todt under Albert
Speer. She designed the Fuhrerbunker under the Chancellery
building in Berlin for Adolf Hitler.  (See WorldNet Daily
for March 23, 2003, the Duluth, Minn. News-Tribune for
March 28, 2003, page 15, and the Minneapolis Star-Tribune
for March 31, 2003, "German engineer: Saddam's bunker hard
to crack," page A5.)

ORANGE FIREBALL SIGHTED
BY HUNDREDS IN ITALY

       "According to the prefecture of Isernia, nurmerous
observations made during the late evening of Saturday,
March 15, 2003 were received the the Isernia police's
provincial command switchboard in regards to an
unidentified flying object which had fallen in a wooded
area near the town of Venafro, setting off a fire which
was rapidly brought under control" by Italian
firefighters.
       "No object was found in the area, and snowfalls over
the ensuing days imperiled further investigation.
Initially, the authorities were worried about a public
furor, denying that the fire had been caused by a
meteorite or a piece of space wreckage, and suggesting
instead that the incident had to do with a lightning
strike."
       "As a rebuttal to such statements, witnesses have
meanwhile come forth with testimony in which they claim to
have distinctly observed a long fiery trail of an orange
color, passing overhead from a southerly direction and
then falling into the woods of Monte Corno (mountain)
where, immediately following the impact, the witnesses saw
flames break out."  (See the Italian newspapers Il
Giornale del Molise and La Stampa for March 17 and 18,
2003.  Grazie a Edoardo Russo, Renzo Cabassi, Roberto
Labanti e Gildo Persone di Centro Italiano di Studi
Ufologici (CISU) per questo rapporto.)


DAYLIGHT UFOs HOVER OVER
SANTIAGO DE CHILE

       "Several unidentified flying objects were reported at
noontime on" Friday, March 21, 2003 "by dozens of people
in the barrio Providencia (neighborhood) of Santiago," the
capital of Chile.
       "A group of lights hovered directly over the city,
just above the intersection of the Calle 11 de Septiembre
and the Calle Marchant Pereira (streets)."
       "Various witnesses to the phenomena made it known to
Terra Chile.  According to them, the sighting involved a
large circular object of intense brilliance which was
accompanied by other lesser (smaller) objects.  Some
witnesses claim to have seen up to seven objects around
it."
       Chilean UFO researchers "received many phone calls
shortly after the event.  Up to now, the authorities of
the General Office of Civil Aviation have not produced any
explanation for the event."  (Muchas gracias a Scott
Corrales y Guillermo Gimenez de Planeta UFO para eso
informe.)


UFOs SEEN AT MOUNTAIN
IN NORTHERN MEXICO

       A UFO has been seen three times in recent week near
the summit of El Cerro del Pueblo, a mountain in Mexico's
northern state of Chihuahua.
       Roland M. Tremblay reports that on Sunday, March 16,
2003, at 5 a.m., Gonzalez Ponce and other witnesses saw a
UFO hovering above the mountaintop.  The mountain itself
is on the outskirts of Villa Lopez in Chihuahua state, not
far from the so-called "Zone of Silence."
       "The last sighting happened very recently," Tremblay
reported, "March 16, and was witnessed by half of the
village (of Villa Lopez--J.T.).  The UFOs appear to get
out from the top of the mountain through a wormhole or an
interdimensional window.  The site is one of the most
important deposits of barite, a barium-bearing mineral.
The barium could be what gives them the necessary energy
to accomplish this, as if the barite deposit was utilized
as a giant superconductor to channel gravitational/
electromagnetic forces from the core of the Earth."
       "More and more witnesses are coming forward, and now
there are reports of time travel to the year 1645 and some
sort of alien underground installation under the
mountain."  (Email Form Report)


MYSTERIOUS LIGHTS SEEN
IN MADISON, WISCONSIN

       "I was at a friend's apartment on the west side of
Madison, Wisconsin (population 208,054) on Sunday, March
23, 2003," eyewitness Joel N. reported, "I recently
purchased a pair of 16X70 binoculars for stargazing and
technical viewing.  The sky was finally clear for a couple
of nights after days of clouds, and I wanted my friend to
check out Jupiter.  We went out his patio door, and my
friend was attempting to look at Jupiter through my
binoculars.  I was talking about how I could see Saturn
earlier in the evening when I suddenly saw six dim reddish
lights in a V-formation moving slowly from the south.
Three on one side and three on the other."
       "I said to my friend, 'What the hell is that!?'"
       "He started to say, 'That's an airpla...' when he
realized there was absolutely no sound; the lights were
not flashing; and it was too close and large to be an
airplane with no sound."
       "I would guess that if I held my hand at arm's
length, it would be just smaller than my hand.  I pulled
my binocs from him to take a closer look.  I couldn't see
it in my binocs at all.  I took the binocs away from my
eyes and said, 'Where the hell did it go?'"
       "He pointed to it, but I couldn't see it any more,
and then he told me it had disappeared.  He said it never
changed pace or direction."
       At first Joel and his friend thought the V-formation
"was a flock of Canada geese reflecting red light from the
ground" but "after we talked about it, we agreed that the
speed and formation of the dim reddish lights were perfect
the whole time and, most likely, rectangular shaped."
(Many thanks to John and Jenny Hoppe of UFO Wisconsin for
this report.)


MORE UFOs SPOTTED NEAR
TERRACE, BRITISH COLUMBIA

       More UFOs have been sighted in Canada's western
province of British Columbia, notably around the town of
Terrace, B.C.
       On Sunday, March 23, 2003, at 7:40 p.m., a UFO,
"grayish white in colour, round and extremely bright,
became immediately two times as bright before speeding by"
Terrace, B.C. "again and continuing towards the northwest.
The object moved from Kitimat, B.C. in the southwest to
the north.  It also moved very quickly.  Before heading
toward the city, it had slowed significantly over
Thornhill.  There were two witnesses to the sighting."
       On Tuesday, March 25, 2003, at 8:55 p.m., "the
witness had just stepped outside to have a cigarette and
said he noticed this 'thing' out of the corner of his eye.
The witness said the craft was seen just above the clouds
after it broke into a clearing in the night sky.  He
described the object as being very large, black,
triangular in shape, with three points of light on each of
the object's corners."
       "He also noticed that the object moved very fast and
was totally silent. He said the object was flying over
Highway 401 near Burnaby Mountain," just outside
Coquitlam, B.C.  "The object was observed for three to
four seconds."
       "'It freaked me right out!' the witness said."
       Canadian ufologist Brian Vike checked with local
meterologists and learned that the cloud ceiling was
11,000 feet (3,300 meters) over Coquitlam that night.
(Many thanks to Brian Vike for these reports.)



       Well, that's it for this week.  Join us next time for
more UFO, Fortean and paranormal news from around the
planet Earth, brought to you by "the paper that goes home-
-UFO Roundup."  See you in seven days!

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2003 by Masinaigan Productions, all
rights reserved.  Readers may post news items from UFO
Roundup on their websites or in news groups provided that
they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list
the date of issue in which the item first appeared.

E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com>
or use the Sighting Report Form at:

http://www.ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm

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   Apr > Apr 2

                              Flares Over Basra

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 13:36:17 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 07:54:24 -0500
Subject: Flares Over Basra


Hi Errol,

I imagine more than a few of the investigators here and on other
lists have been noting the look of the flares being used by the
British over Basra today. Now, one has to look again at the so
called flares over Pheonix, Arizona. I for one don't see much of
a match. Nor did I before. The flare trails are very evident.

Best,

Don Ledger







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   Apr > Apr 2

                     Re: Pravda On Saddam's UFO - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 23:49:54 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 07:59:09 -0500
Subject: Re: Pravda On Saddam's UFO - Hatch


 >From: Karl Rotstan <krotstan@bfdmail.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 10:27:26 -0500
 >Subject: Pravda On Saddam's UFO

 >If it's Pravda, it must be the truth.

 >Source: http://english.pravda.ru/main/2003/01/31/42821.html

 >13:47 2003-01-31

 >Is Hussein Owner of Crashed UFO?


Hello Karl:

Forgive all my clipping.  I just want to cut to the chase
and make sure I have this straight:

Pravda is reporting that:

  - UFOlogist Joseph Trainor declared in his review UFO Roundup..

  - .. It is allegedly said that the craft crashed during the
Gulf War (1990-1991), or more recently (probably in December
1998)..

  - UFO Roundup's Arab journalists failed either to confirm or to
deny these rumors..

  - It is rumored at a market in Sulaimaniya, to the south of
Zarzi, that aliens are Saddam's guests..

  - Saddam gave the aliens sanctuary, so they couldn't be
captured by Americans..

  - They say that the aliens created watchdogs for Saddam. The
aliens took ordinary desert scorpions and used their bio-
engineering to grow the scorpions to giant size. Scorpions of a
cow-size! .. They are wonderful watchdogs: they blend in with
the desert, swiftly and silently move on their warm-blooded prey
for a decisive attack.  Luckless intruders hear just some
strange sound from behind stones, then a pincer crushes their
necks, another pincer crushes their legs; then the victims is
slammed to the ground and beaten with a barbed tail six or seven
times ...

  - Joseph Trainor came to a conclusion that something strange is
actually happening in the valley of the Little Zab river, but it
is not clear what exactly.

  - It is not ruled out that Saddam intentionally spreads these
rumors to scare people away from some important military object
located in the old fortress of Qalaat-e-Julundi.

- - -

I don't need to go on. I just wanted to make sure I had the good
parts down right. This sure beats the usual litany of Night
Lights and Chupacabra attacks.



Best wishes

- Larry Hatch






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                                Telling Tales

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 08:06:57 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 08:06:57 -0500
Subject: Telling Tales



Source: The News Sentinal - Fort Wayne, Indiana

http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/newssentinel/5525114.htm

Posted on Mon, Mar. 31, 2003

Telling Tales

Elmhurst grad to pen Armstrong's biography

Nancy Nall
nnall@news-sentinel

Neil Armstrong has spent the almost 34 years between July 20,
1969, and today proving that the first man to walk on the moon
might also be the solar system's most self-effacing one. He has
given only a few interviews in the intervening years, and while
not exactly a recluse, he has lived an extremely private life
far from the world's media spotlight.

How fitting, then, that he should choose as his authorized
biographer not a superstar scribe accustomed to chronicling the
lives of exceptionally famous people, but a writer virtually
unknown outside spaceflight circles, and a Fort Wayne native, no
less.

"When I first started writing to Neil, I think he picked up the
symmetries in our lives," said James Hansen. "I used to drive
home from grad school at Ohio State, on U.S. 33, and of course
it takes you right past Wapakoneta," which is Armstrong's
hometown.

"He was an Ohio boy who went to school in Indiana, and I was an
Indiana boy who went to school in Ohio."

But the truth of why Armstrong chose Hansen - reportedly over
such contenders as Stephen Ambrose and James Michener - is
probably closer to the more mundane fact that "he sees himself
as an engineer, and I've spent my career writing about engineers
and their research," Hansen said from Florida, where he's on a
research trip. A professor of history at Auburn University in
Alabama, Hansen is taking a two-year leave to report and write
Armstrong's bio, tentatively titled, "First Man."

Hansen, a graduate of Elmhurst High School and IPFW, is the
author of four previous books about the space program, primarily
at the Langley Research Center in Langley, Va. He sent the books
to Armstrong as part of a correspondence that stretched over
several years before the astronaut agreed to discuss a biography
proposal.

"If Neil was going to agree to do a book, he would be insistent
on someone who understood what he was all about," said Hansen.

Once they had an agreement, Armstrong handed Hansen the key to
his past in a letter of introduction, opening doors to sources
who have never talked about Armstrong, out of respect for his
privacy.

Hansen is researching Armstrong's life sequentially, starting
each section - boyhood, Purdue, Korean War, Edwards Air Base,
etc. - with an interview with Armstrong, which then reveals
other sources to consult.

"I probably have about 20 hours of taped interviews with him,
and we haven't even reached the astronaut years," he said.
Hansen sends Armstrong verbatim transcripts of each
conversation, which sometimes dislodge other memories in the 72-
year-old subject. Once the project is completed, the research
materials will probably be donated to Purdue University,
Armstrong's alma mater.

Some writers and commentators have described Armstrong as a
virtual hermit, walled off from a world that still knows little
about the small-town Ohio farm boy who held the gaze of the
world when he stepped onto the moon's surface. Hansen pointsout
that once he left the space program, Armstrong taught for years
at the University of Cincinnati and did other work in his
community. He didn't shrink from life so much as he did the news
media.

"What he went through after Apollo 11 was really more than even
Charles Lindbergh had to deal with (after his trans-Atlantic
flight)," he said.

"This will be a biography, but also an iconography," because
Armstrong became one, however unwillingly. In part because of
his withdrawal from the spotlight, "people could project their
own attitudes onto him," Hansen said. "An event like the moon
landing was so epochal, people had to make it part of their
belief systems."

For instance, he said, many Muslims believe that Armstrong
converted to Islam after his return from the moon. The story
goes he heard the adhan, or call to prayer, while he was on the
lunar surface. Not knowing what it was, he thought nothing of it
until he heard it again on a trip to Cairo, interpreted it as a
sign from Allah, and converted. The story is bogus (there is no
sound on the moon, for one thing), and Armstrong himself
corrected it through his secretary.

Madalyn Murray O'Hare, the late public atheist, interpreted
various facts and public statements by Armstrong to mean he was
also an atheist, and sued NASA, demanding they issue a public
statement confirming her suspicions. "Neil is not an atheist,"
Hansen said. He also never had encounters with aliens or UFOs
while in flight or on the moon, another persistent story, he
added.

Lately, a publicity seeker named Bart Sibrel has been traveling
the country, confronting the Apollo astronauts with a video
camera and a Bible, asking them to swear on it that the moon
landings actually took place. (Sibrel says they were faked.)
Buzz Aldrin, Armstrong's crewmate on Apollo 11, punched Sibrel
in the face, but Sibrel remains undaunted.

Hansen will continue his methodical research toward a manuscript
completion deadline in fall 2004.

A verbal agreement for a movie based on "First Man" has been
made with none other than Clint Eastwood. "He wants us to come
out and play golf with him. I played on the golf team at IPFW,
and played with Neil. But to be playing with Clint Eastwood and
Neil Armstrong, that's a first for me."

---

Nancy Nall's column appears Mondays and Fridays. This column is
the personal commentary of the writer and does not necessarily
reflect the views or opinion of The News-Sentinel.


[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]








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             Seth Shostak: The Search for Extraterrestrial Life

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 08:12:35 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 08:12:35 -0500
Subject: Seth Shostak: The Search for Extraterrestrial Life



Source: National Geographic

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/03/0331_030401_setishostak.html

Seth Shostak: The Search for Extraterrestrial Life

Tom Foreman
Inside Base Camp
April 1, 2003

Many of the great hoaxes of the past fifty years have involved
reports of UFOs, extraterrestrial visitors, and contact with
distant space civilizations.

Even on the week of April Fools' Day, however, Seth Shostak is
seriously listening to the stars. As a senior astronomer at the
SETI Institute, Shostak spends endless hours analyzing bursts of
electronic noise drifting through the cosmos, captured by radio
telescopes. SETI stands for Search for Extraterrestrial
Intelligence.

He and his colleagues have never found proof anyone_or anything_
"up there" is trying to make contact. He readily accepts the
jokes that shower down on his efforts. But when this smiling,
easygoing man ambles into my studio, he is clearly out to make
believers of us all.


Tom Foreman: You believe something is out there?

Seth Shostak: Oh, absolutely! The usual assumption is they're
some sort of soft, squishy aliens like you see in the
movies_just a little more advanced than we are so that we can
find them. But the galaxy is two or three times that age, so
there are going to be some societies out there that are millions
of years, maybe more, beyond ours. So they may have proceeded
beyond biology_maybe they've invented thinking machines and it
could be that what we first find is something that's
artificially constructed.

Tom Foreman: What if it is life form, though, let's talk about
that. Will it look anything like us? Will we even recognize it?

Seth Shostak: You're not going to see them in person, I don't
think. To go from here to the nearest star is a project
requiring a 100,000-year trip. And that's longer than you're
going to want to sit there eating airline food.

Tom Foreman: So even if we're reduced to sending inter-stellar
post cards, and we get a picture of these critters, these
people, these folks_whatever we want to call them_what do you
think: Are they going to be the same size as us?

Seth Shostak: It's unlikely that they're gonna be, you know, the
size of a thimble, or something like that, because by definition
they're going to be intelligent, otherwise we're not going to
find them. And in order to be brainy, at least on this planet,
you need a certain minimum brain size. It's also unlikely
they'll be very large, because you get into other problems_you
can't stand up so easily, it's hard to wield tools, you use too
many resources. So they'll be bigger than a breadbox and
probably smaller than an elephant, would be my guess.

Tom Foreman: Is it possible that they're out there right now and
they've been bombarding us (with messages) for years, and
they've concluded that we are a bunch of idiots because we never
got the message?

Seth Shostak: Yeah, it's possible they're using some sort of
technology of which we're unaware. Carl Sagan, in fact, used to
talk about the inhabitants of Borneo, you know, they're
communicating with runners and drums. Meanwhile, there are all
these radio shows going right through their bodies and their
villages, of which they're totally unaware.

Tom Foreman: You have suggested that if they (extraterrestrials)
were coming here, there may be reason for us to be nervous.

Seth Shostak: I would personally be very nervous.

Tom Foreman: Why?

Seth Shostak: Well, certainly, the experience on earth has been
that when explorers come to visit you, that's usually bad news.
You know, I'm thinking of the Native Americans, when the
Spaniards landed on the coast. People often say, "Oh, they're
gonna come here and help us solve our environmental problems."
Well, I'm not solving the environmental problems of the ants in
my backyard, although I know the ants are there. I don't expect
them to come here, however.

Tom Foreman: Are you then utterly dismissive of the idea of
people who say that they've been here?

Seth Shostak: I'm not dismissive of it, but I challenge them to
come up with better evidence.

Tom Foreman: What's it like when you're in there (at a radio
telescope) and something comes through?

Seth Shostak: When you do get a signal that looks like it might
be the real thing, I still feel the heart rate go up and I
usually get out of the chair and watch the screens with great
intensity

Tom Foreman: And you think you're going to hear something?

Seth Shostak: I think it may take a few decades yet, but it's
not a question of waiting centuries. I really think it's within
sight.


[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]







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                      Re: Flares Over Basra - Hamilton

From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 05:43:02 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 08:54:02 -0500
Subject: Re: Flares Over Basra - Hamilton


 >From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 13:36:17 -0400
 >Subject: Flares Over Basra

 >I imagine more than a few of the investigators here and on other
 >lists have been noting the look of the flares being used by the
 >British over Basra today. Now, one has to look again at the so
 >called flares over Pheonix, Arizona. I for one don't see much of
 >a match. Nor did I before. The flare trails are very evident.

Don,

That is what I have been saying all along. I saw the so-called
Phoenix 'flares' through a terrestrial telescope and they looked
the size of the moon as seen with the naked-eye and just as
round.

The explanation of flares was offered by the PRO at Davis
Monthan AFB in Tucson as an explanation for the white lights
seen over Phoenix in the 8 - 8:30 pm time slot. The 9:45 - 10:00
pm lights were amber orbs and had emitted no glare.

Dr, Macabbee disagrees with me which is his prerogative, but I
and other witnesses I interviewed gave similar descriptions.

- Bill Hamilton






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                          Filer's Files #14 -- 2003

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 09:48:25 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 15:50:18 -0500
Subject: Filer's Files #14 -- 2003



FILER'S FILES #14 -- 2003 Skywatch Investigations.
George A. Filer, Director Mutual UFO Network Eastern
April 2, 2003,  Majorstar@aol.com Webmaster: Chuck
Warren -- My website is at: http://www.georgefiler.com
Sponsored by:  http://www.filer.unfranchise.com

WORLDWIDE UFO SIGHTINGS CONTINUE, DECREASE IN US

The purpose of these files is to report the UFO eyewitness and
photo/video evidence that occurs on a daily basis around the
world and in space.  A brilliant fireball was seen exploding
over Chicago. UFOs were sighted in Rhode Island - sighting of
large glowing object with a red blinking light, New York City -
bright object disappears after 15 minutes, Florida - big oval
with bright lights, Kentucky a small object flashing red blue
and green, Wisconsin flying triangle, Illinois - UFO report on
the radio, Michigan - one center light surrounded by lights in
circular shape, Arizona - strobing blue light dropping "midair
bombs, Canada - sightings cont inue high, England captured on
digital cam object over London, Scotland - manta like craft seen
in daylight, and in Australia cigar shaped UFO flies over a
school. Support our troops who are now 25 miles from Bagdad in
the fight to oust Saddam.

EDGAR MITCHELL, U.S. ASTRONAUT DISCUSSES ALIEN VISITS

"It isn't just the U.S. government which has kept quiet about
alien visits. It would be arrogant of an American like myself to
assume that E.T.s would only choose to visit my country. Indeed,
I've heard convincing stories about governments all over the
world that know of alien visits -- including the British
government. Not all governments are anxious to keep their
findings quiet. The Belgians have admitted that aliens may be
out there and have released information about sightings that
cannot be explaine d away as military planes, weather phenomena
and so on." October 25, 1998


TELEVISION UFO TRACKING DETECTOR

The television set must be connected to a VHF antenna not to a
cable for this to work. 1.) Turn power on. 2.) Select channel
two. 3.) Adjust contrast to maximum. 4) Lower brightness fifty
percent. Once the TV is set you may see changes in your screen
if a UFO is near by such as: a.) Two or three intermittent white
horizontal lines that sometimes move to the top of the screen
b.) Flashing ripples occassionally strange letters or writing
c.) Diagonal streaks of light d.) Screen will glow stark white
NOTE: The audio may also be affected by a UFO. As television is
a visual medium, optimal results are obtained by observing the
interactive clash between broad spectrum electromagnetic noise
and an "occupied" channel two at 55.25 megacycles. With higher
channels above the 100-megacycle range, most interference
becomes increasingly less effective. To make today's ultra-
sophisticated television receivers more susceptible to
electrical noise, simply turn the antenna so that you
deliberately and slightly weaken the channel two broadcast
signal. Thanks to "Free UFO Detectors," by Robert A. Goerman,
FATE magazine, April, 2000, Volume 53, Number 4, pages 22-25 and
Ron Regehr

Editor's Note: The tremendous propulsion systems of the UFOs
have the power generating capability equivalent to an average
electrical power station. UFO's are known to effect radios,
various electronic equipment, and compasses to a varying degree.
The equipment will often change radio frequency, change the
compass direction, create odd noises and cause the equipment act
up in various ways. Often batteries or lights will drain of
power and stop functioning. There are also numerous reports of
aircraft in struments malfunctioning, cars stopping, and homes
literally shaking as the UFOs pass over. Unusual animal behavior
is also frequently noticed.

BRILLIANT FIREBALL SEEN EXPLODING OVER CHICAGO

PARK FOREST -- Observers in several Midwest states were startled
as brilliant fireball streaked across the sky and exploded
around midnight on March 27, 2003. The rocky asteroid with a
mass of about 10 metric tons was probably about ten feet wide.
Some 500 fragments scattered over a ten miles of south of
Chicago suburbs . A chunk of the space rock fell through the
roof of Noe Garza's Park Forest house, swiped a window, and
rolled across the floor before breaking a mirrored closet door.
"I thought somebod y was breaking in. It was a big bang. I can't
really describe it. I mean it was too quick to think," said Noe
Garza, whose house was hit by a meteorite. Garza and his family
didn't know what was happening until they turned on a light.
That's when 13-year-old Robert realized a five pound meteor fell
just a few feet from where he was sleeping. "As soon as I heard
the big noises, I just curled up in a little ball and stayed
there until it was all over, and then I yelled for my dad," said
Robert. A news pho tographer shooting a fire scene on the
Southwest Side caught the flash of bright light before midnight
that experts say were meteor fragments streaking across the
night sky. People as far away as Ohio reported seeing the light.
Reports of small meteorites actually making their way to the
ground have come in from Park Forest and Olympia Fields. "Lit up
the whole room. Sounded like a plane crashed or lightning going
off. It was bad," said Chris Kasco, house hit by meteorite. A
Harper College astronomy profes sor is collecting meteor
fragments This is the biggest thing to hit Illinois in a heck of
a long time, to be funny about it," said Paul Sipiera, geology
professor. "It's been more than 60 years since Illinois has been
hit by meteorites that were witnessed as they fell to the
ground." The old story is we're getting hit every day by
hundreds and hundreds of tons of meteorite, but this is only the
ninth meteorite ever recovered from Illinois. Fireballs are
surprisingly common: Researchers expect an asteroid al object
one meter in diameter or larger to strike Earth's atmosphere
about 40 times per year. Few are seen, however, because they
usually appear over unpopulated areas. Thanks to
http://abclocal.go.com/wls/news/032703_ns_skyflash.html

NEW YORK - BRIGHT OBJECT DISAPPEARS AFTER 15 MINUTES

BRONX -- On March 21, 2003, a track runner reports he was
running at around 8 30 PM, and spotted a very curious object in
the sky, that at first he thought was an airplane. But the thing
didn't move and it was much higher then the clouds, which were
high, also. It was standing still at first for five minutes or
more. I could see it very clearly, but then it started to
disappear a bit from the coming clouds, but then again it was at
the same position for another fifteen minutes. The light would
vary in brilliance so I stayed there until I couldn't see it any
more. The sky was now clear around the object, so I checked all
the stars, but even the biggest star didn't look like this
shape. My intention is just to report this event, because this
was the most interesting thing I have ever seen in my life and I
can't figure it out. Thanks to Peter Davenport [
http://www.ufocenter.com/ ]NUFORC

RHODE ISLAND - LARGE GLOWING OBJECT WITH A RED LIGHT

PORTSMOUTH -- On March 16, 2003, the observer saw an object in
the eastern sky from his home looking from Aquidneck Island
towards Tiverton. The witness, says, "I first saw the object's
light coming from the south at 9 PM, and it was heading north.
It caught my attention because the object was so bright and was
moving slower than most aircraft I've seen. Using binoculars I
was unable to distinguish what kind of aircraft it was. It moved
north and then appeared to hover and then turned east. It was a
l arge glowing object with a red blinking light beneath the
bright round yellow/orange glowing light. I lost it in the
evening clouds over Fog land. Thanks to Peter Davenport [
http://www.ufocenter.com/ ]NUFORC

FLORIDA - BIG OVAL WITH BRIGHT LIGHTS

ORLANDO -- Peter Davenport, reports the witness was driving home
on March 17, 2003, when she saw something big and bright in the
sky that looked like a blimp, but it seemed so big and was
round, not the shape of a blimp. The witness reports, "I stopped
my car at 10:50 PM, and kept looking, it wasn't too far away,
and it was moving slowly not too high above me". I was scared
because I had never seen anything like this so drove home and
told my boyfriend about the sighting. He could tell that I was
shocke d because my eyes were watery. He said, "let's go
upstairs to see if you can see it again". We looked towards the
direction that I originally saw it but didn't see anything.
Then, I looked towards my right and there it was. My boyfriend
saw it at that time and agreed with me that we've never seen
anything like this. It was a huge very big oval with bright
lights (white) with a small red light on top. We then went
outside to see if we can still see it and we still saw it but we
had a better view from upstairs so we headed upstairs again and
kept looking until it disappeared into some tress. Please report
if you saw anything. Thanks to Peter Davenport [
http://www.ufocenter.com/ ]NUFORC

KENTUCKY - SMALL OBJECT FLASHING RED BLUE AND GREEN

BARBOURVILLE -- On March 15, 2003, we looked outside about 11:15
PM, and saw a flashing light high in the western sky that was
flashing red, blue, and green. It seemed to be hovering and
moving slowly to the right for 45 minutes to an hour. ((NUFORC
Note: Sirius, a very bright twinkling star, would be in the
southwestern sky at the time indicated. PD))

MICHIGAN - LIGHT SURROUNDED BY CIRCULAR LIGHTS

MONROE -- A witness who occupies a position of considerable
responsibility reports, "I am still confused as to what I saw on
March 17, 2003, while traveling to the airport at 5 AM. I travel
to the same airport and return biweekly over the same route.
Traveling from Toledo, Ohio to DTW (Detroit Metro Airport) the
weather was foggy. I was driving cautiously, just trying to stay
awake. Fog to light, fog to light. All of a sudden the fog
seemed visible; it was still there. I could see it clearly. I
was i n the center lane of a three lane road. I looked for the
source of the light; it was a shock to me, going from dark and
fog to what seemed to be afternoon sun and fog. On my right,
hovering was a bright light. I saw one light in the center and
several in a circle around the center light. It was so weird; I
began thinking what is that? Then I was out of sight of it. I
saw tail lights in the fog braking ahead of me before I came to
that area, indicating they also saw the light. I did not brake,
but I

began driving faster. I am not a believer of these things. I was
also thinking that a street lamp was out of place. It was not
the same time driving from one light to another. I am an
Electrical Engineer; so thinking logically comes naturally to
me. I had my cruise control "on". I saw something that did not
belong there. I am submitting this because I hope any other
persons driving that day, on I-75, saw the same thing. I have
not been able to get the thing out of my mind. Thanks to Peter
Davenpor t [ http://www.ufocenter.com/ ]NUFORC

ILLINOIS - UFO RADIO REPORT

GALESBURG -- On March 26, 2003, my son heard on the radio that
there was a sighting of a light, that flew northwest across and
was gone in an instant. Several people are reported as seeing
it. But they didn't go into great detail, probably because it
happened so fast. Later they tried to talk it down, saying that
it was probably a cat that got electrocuted in the area. Have
you ever seen a cat flying in the sky, with lights? They can
sure come up with some wild explanations, can't they? Thanks to
Tia nca

ARIZONA - STROBING BLUE LIGHT DROPPING MIDAIR BOMBS

PHOENIX -- The witness who resides in the Chicago area was on
vacation on March 14, 2003, when he looked out the window and
noticed a bluish-white strobe light about 15-20 miles away. At
8:20 PM, the phenomenon turned spectacular and unimaginable as
it erupted into a glowing white streak of sparks flowing behind
it as it flew straight down out of the sky. Later, out of the
corner of my eye I again saw the same strobing light release an
orange sphere which resembled the so called "flare" of the
massive UF O sighting that occurred in Phoenix's past. This was
followed by more white streaking spark-lights in the sky that
was about a 1000 feet long tail. After doing various maneuvers,
"S" shapes, and dive's, which were highlighted by the white
spark streaks the UFO, which I was seeing, dropped several
"midair-bombs" which resembled a high altitude fireworks mortar
explosion. There were two colors of the sparks coming off the
explosions, one was solid purple, and one was solid green. The
purer of these two c olors I have ever seen. I was in complete
awe, when I then raced to get the attention of my brothers
girlfriends mom. She was also fascinated by the encounter. The
site was so spectacular, and visible, there had to have been at
least a thousand people witness it on the road driving west at
the time. It was in the northwestern sky. I heard no sounds
during the UFO encounter, but I definitely heard the roar of the
fighter jets during the day.

LEUPP/FLAGSTAFF -- While driving from Leupp to Flagstaff, on
March 10, 2003, my friend and I saw a shiny object in the
southern part of the cloudless sky at 2 PM. It was round and
seemed to levitate and flew up and down. I stopped the car and
we both looked up and both saw it. A few minutes later the
object disappeared! Thanks to Peter Davenport [
http://www.ufocenter.com/ ]NUFORC

HAWAII - POSSIBLE ANOMALOUS OBJECT ON TV SHOW

KAILUA-KUNA -- I had an incredible sighting on March 17, 2003 at
1 PM while on vacation that I'm not reporting here, because
since that time I have been even more vigilant, and today I
think I saw something that may be worthy of a quick
investigation. I was watching The National Geographic Channel,
Expedition Journal: "IN THE COLD LIGHT OF DAY". Towards the end
of the program, a photographer who was being profiled on the
show was charged by a musk ox near the seaside. In the next
scene as the narrator s peaks about photographing subjects under
all conditions, two men are shown walking down a country road.
Something is moving in the sky very discreetly. It happened very
quickly and I didn't tape it, but my gut tells me it may be a
good UFO shot. Thanks to Peter Davenport [
http://www.ufocenter.com/ ]NUFORC

CANADA - SIGHTINGS REMAIN HIGH

BRITISH COLUMBIA -- Brian Vike says, "Report after report is
flying in with more than thirty witnesses watching "two black
triangles" at Terrace, B.C. over Lakelse Lake area. Now, not 20
minutes ago I received a report about a cow (bull) mutilation.

COQUITLAM, BRITISH COLUMBIA -- The witness had just stepped
outside on March 25, 2003, to have a cigarette and said he
noticed this "thing" out of the corner of his eye at 8:55 PM. He
said, "The craft was just above the clouds after it broke into a
clearing in the night sky. It was a very large black flying
triangle with three points of light on each of the object's
tips". It moved very fast and was totally silent. The craft was
flying roughly east to west just above the cloud cover. He
checked with t he weather channel and was told it was about
11,000 feet. He was located around the shadow of Burnaby
Mountain and the object was seen close, or flying over the 401
Freeway. It was bigger than three jumbo jets that could have fit
into the object easily. The object was witnessed for
approximately 3 to 4 seconds and freaked him right out !! Thanks
to Brian Vike HBCC UFO Research

TORONTO -- Martha F. writes: I live in downtown Toronto, and
upon returning from the variety store, I went inside my studio;
and glanced up through my street level window, and noticed an
object moving east to west towards my direction. I thought at
first it was probably a helicopter or a blimp, as we have a
number of hospitals and a sports stadium in the downtown area.
As it moved closer, it appeared to be a dense black object
moving at a steady pace. I went outside, and my view from the
sidewalk was an egg-shaped (oval) black object up in the sky.
The time was Thursday, March 27, 2003, at 6:23 PM. It was still
light outside and there were no visible lights on the object as
it moved out of sight over my building. At arm's length, the
object was about half my thumbnail in size. I would love to know
if anyone else reports anything similar. Best regards, Martha
P.S. We've enjoyed listening to you on the Jeff Rense show.

VENEZUELA - CIRCULAR UFO OBSERVED

CARACAS -- In a report from investigator Arturo, a young couple
observed the displacement of a circular UFO near the =C1vila Hill
at level of the Mariperes Urbanization. The strange object,
provided was blinking green and yellow colors, and was seen
between 22:00 and 23:00 hours on March 19, 2003. It made a short
vertical route that culminated after its fast concealment in the
neighboring mountain. Thanks to Arturo, harturoep@yahoo.com
ovnivenezuela@yahoo.com

ARGENTINA - MUTILATION CASE

VILLA VALERIA IN THE PROVINCE OF CORDOBA -- The initial data in
our possession suggests that a mare turned up dead with
mutilations on its jawbone. No traces of blood were found and
the incisions practiced on the tissue were perfectly cauterized.
The animal belonged to livestock rancher Daniel Godoy, whose
property is located 120 kilometers southeast of Rio Cuarto,
along Rt. 35. Initial information states that the animal did not
suffer from any illnesses. Police from Villa Valeria reported to
the scene , and no report has been produced to date. Thanks for
translation (C) 2003. Scott Corrales, IHU.

ENGLAND - DAYLIGHT UFO CAPTURED ON DIGITAL CAMERA

LONDON -- On March 17, 2003, the witness had just got some tools
from his shed, and looked up to see a light in the sky. He says,
"At first I thought it was just the sun shining off the side of
a plane, but then it disappeared then reappeared, so I began
scanning the area where I last saw it. Suddenly it appeared
again, so I ran inside and grabbed the camcorder." Once I found
it in the sky again, I realized that what I was capturing on
video was no airplane. It was a very clear and sunny day. I have
i t recorded on tape going and coming for over half an hour.  It
looked like a cylinder at times, and then it seems to change. At
one point in time you get a very clear shot of a plane going
under it. This was first seen from my back yard, and then I
moved to the front of the property. I would be very much
interested to here if any one else reported this same object. I
also think anyone on that plane may have had a better sight at
it as well.

ELLESMERE PORT -- The witness observed a bright round object
which appeared to be the size of a football. The object was much
lower than a passenger airplane which was also visible at the
time. There was no sound at all, and at the time there was
absolutely no wind. The witness reports, "I watched the object
as it moved steadily across the sky, and then changed direction
to the north. It seemed to accelerate and curve off westwards
towards Ellesmere Port. The object remained intensely bright
until out of sight. Thanks to [ http://www.ufocenter.com/
]NUFORC

SCOTLAND -- DAYLIGHT MANTA LIKE OBJECT WITH A LIGHT

BUCKHAVEN FIFE -- On March 30, 2003, at 3:30 PM, when the
witness was digging the vegetable plot an object about the size
of a car came out from behind houses across the road from the
two witnesses. He yelled "UFO" and got his partner to watch it
as he ran for his camera. The object was about 100 feet away It
looked oval, approximately 8 by 12 feet wide with an underneath
part which revolved and had a pink/red flashing light. It looked
tatty, black, and the two ends of the oval almost flapped like
the

fins of a manta ray would move. It was a clumsy looking object
and just seemed to float. I went out my front door with the
camera but the object was a dot in the sky by then, I started
clicking anyway. For that couple of minutes there was no traffic
and the street seemed quiet. I ran across to the neighbor's
house and watched it with two more people. One of them said it
was a kid's balloon because he could see the string. He'd only
been watching it for a minute and had rushed outside for a look
when he saw me running with my camera. I didn't tell him it came
out from the side of his house and that it was the size of a car
when I first saw it. It was not a kid's balloon.

AUSTRALIA A CIGAR SHAPED UFO FLEW OVER MY SCHOOL

CANBERRA -- Five witnesses were outside their school talking on
March 19, 2003, when one looked up to see some sort of 'cigar'
flying quite slowly in the air at 8:50 AM. The observer says, "I
told my friends and they looked up, two of them said it was a
jet or a plane, but it didn't have any tail or wings." Then
after about three seconds it zoomed off with incredible speed.
My friends said it was just a jet, but one of my friends and I
don't think so. You might not believe this but I swear I'm
telling the truth under God's name. Peter Davenport writes, we
will invite the witness to have his fellow students submit
reports, as well.

SCIENTISTS INVENT ULTRA SMALL STRUCTURES

NASA's Ames Research Center in California has invented a
biological method to make ultra-small structures that may be
used to produce electronics 10 to 100 times smaller than today's
components. The new method uses modified proteins from
"extremophile" microbes that live in near-boiling, acidic hot
springs to grow mesh-like structures so small that an electron
microscope is needed to see them. According to principal
investigator Jonathan Trent, "Our innovation takes advantage of
the innate ability of pr oteins to form into ordered structures,
and for us to use genetic engineering to change nature's plans,
transforming these structures into something useful." The team
took a gene from a single-celled organism that lives in near--
boiling acid mud and changed the gene to add instructions that
describe how to make a protein that sticks to gold or
semiconductors, said co-investigator Andrew McMillan. The new
protein is crystallized to form tiny, flat, lattice-like
structures that act as nano-templates. Th e structures are made
of rings about 20 nanometers across, and are 5,000 times smaller
than the width of a human hair. The minute pieces of gold or
semiconductor that stick to the protein are about one to 10
nanometers across. Today's standard computer chips have features
that are roughly 130 nanometers apart. An array of nano-
particles can serve as computer memory, a sensor, or as a logic
device. Applications also exist in the biomedical field. Visit
http://link.abpi.net/l.php?20021203A2 for more inf ormation.

WHAT TO KNOW WHEN HIRING A REAL ESTATE AGENT!

Learn how you can obtain the best real estate agent for your
needs. To get a free copy of this report e-mail me at
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My web portal now offers a free e-mail account to people who
read Filer's Files. Most people check their e-mail several times
a day and my sight brings you the news, sports, business news,
and weather plus your own GoNowMail.Com account. Someday you may
need to send a Hallmark Card, flowers or a gift quickly. Its all
here for your convenience at discount prices. Shop at the Mall
Without Walls with 100 stores. I phoned my mother, who said she
wanted perfume for her gift. We had two feet of snow on the
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you can qualify as a preferred customer for many of these
stores.


THE GREAT UFO/ET CONGRESS OF 2003

Will be held on April 5 &6, at The Days Inn, Bordentown, New
Jersey. Confirmed speakers are: Graham Bethune, Rick Hilberg,
Anthony & Lynn Volpe, Eugenia Macer-Story, Pierre Bolduc,
Stanton Friedman, Rober VanderClock, Rich Dolan, and Paul
Bartholomew See: drufo.org

MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative
reports subscribe to the MUFON JOURNAL. A MUFON membership
includes the Journal and costs only $35.00 per year. To join
MUFON or to report a UFO go to http://www.mufon.com/. To ask
questions contact MUFONHQ@aol.com or HQ@mufon.com. Mention that
I recommended you for membership.

Filer's Files is copyrighted 2003 by George A. Filer, all rights
reserved. Readers may post the COMPLETE files on their Web Sites
if they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list
the date of issue. These reports and comments are not
necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON viewpoint. Send your letters to
Majorstar@aol.com. Sending mail automatically grants permission
for us to publish and use your name. Please state if you wish to
keep your name, address, or story confidential. CAUTION, MOST OF
TH ESE ARE INITIAL REPORTS AND REQUIRE FURTHER INVESTIGATION.

Virus Warning: Computer viruses currently in circulation are
able to send e-mails pretending to be from someone else, but
carrying a copy of the virus as an attachment. We've seen
several old messages from us being circulated in this way. We
will NEVER send you an attached file. If you receive a message
claiming to be from us with an attached file, just delete it
without opening it.

Regards,

George Filer
www.Georgefiler.com









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   Apr > Apr 2

                        Re: Flares Over Basra - King

From: Tom King <tomking2030@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 14:13:44 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 15:52:04 -0500
Subject: Re: Flares Over Basra - King


 >From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 05:43:02 -0800
 >Subject: Re: Flares Over Basra

 >>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 13:36:17 -0400
 >>Subject: Flares Over Basra

 >>I imagine more than a few of the investigators here and on other
 >>lists have been noting the look of the flares being used by the
 >>British over Basra today. Now, one has to look again at the so
 >>called flares over Pheonix, Arizona. I for one don't see much of
 >>a match. Nor did I before. The flare trails are very evident.

 >That is what I have been saying all along. I saw the so-called
 >Phoenix 'flares' through a terrestrial telescope and they looked
 >the size of the moon as seen with the naked-eye and just as
 >round.


I just wanted to add here the scope Bill used that night is one
of mine. I have tested it later to look at known flares the
military dropped in the exact area at later dates. On 3/13/97 we
were too far for my scope to see smoke trails with my scope under
normal circumstances.

 >The explanation of flares was offered by the PRO at Davis
 >Monthan AFB in Tucson as an explanation for the white lights
 >seen over Phoenix in the 8 - 8:30 pm time slot. The 9:45 - 10:00
 >pm lights were amber orbs and had emitted no glare.

 >Dr. Macabbee disagrees with me which is his prerogative, but I
 >and other witnesses I interviewed gave similar descriptions.


I think Bruce came to this conclusion because the objects at
10:00 triangulate into military operating areas. On video they
don't exhibit any exotic maneuvers and are consistent with
flares caught on tape. I saw and taped the lights at 10:00 pm on
3-13-97 and I have seen and taped flares drops from the
military. In my opinion they are identical.


Tom King
www.ufovideo.com






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                Re: Don Johnson's UFO-Wave Prediction - King

From: Tom King <tomking2030@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 14:17:40 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 15:53:34 -0500
Subject: Re: Don Johnson's UFO-Wave Prediction - King


 >From: Chris Burns <Thurstonoreggae@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 12:11:55 EST
 >Subject: Re: Don Johnson's UFO-Wave Prediction

 >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 23:06:34 +0000
 >>Subject: Don Johnson's UFO-Wave Prediction

 >While we are on the topic of waves, has anybody found a
 >semi-consistent pattern concerning a return of UFO activity
 >in reputed hotspots?  Examples could be the Piedmont area of
 >Missouri, Exeter NH, Yakima WA, Dundee in Ohio,
 >Wanaque NJ, etc.

 >Possibly the studies in Norway yielded some patterns?

 >Also, does anybody have any information on the wave of sightings
 >in Ithaca, New York in the 1950s (or 60's)?


Hello Chris and List,

In my area, Phoenix, I have noticed more UFO sightings from
March to July. Then it goes dead after July and that's if a flap
is happening.

As for the Bubba sightings we had, it never came on Sunday or
Monday nights. It always came back in August for atleast 1
sighting.

Right now nothing is going on in the valley that I know of. We
seem to have UFO flaps every 3 years.


Tom King
www.ufovideo.com






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                       Re: Flares Over Basra - Fortson

From: Mike Fortson <satmike@cox.net>
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 07:45:56 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 15:59:37 -0500
Subject: Re: Flares Over Basra - Fortson


 >From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 13:36:17 -0400
 >Subject: Flares Over Basra

 >I imagine more than a few of the investigators here and on other
 >lists have been noting the look of the flares being used by the
 >British over Basra today. Now, one has to look again at the so
 >called flares over Pheonix, Arizona. I for one don't see much of
 >a match. Nor did I before. The flare trails are very evident.


List,

I have been a lurker on UFO UpDates for a couple years now. This
is my first post.

I would like to add my two cents to what Mr Ledger said
concerning March 13, 1997. The night of the so-called Phoenix
Lights.

My wife and I are 8:30 pm mst witnesses to the massive V-shaped
craft. We saw it upclose and very personel. I feel that I am
very qualified to say the following:


These statements, with all due respect to Mr Ledger, show
exactly how the misconception of what happened on March 13,
1997, exists.

1. No one has ever said "flares over Phoenix" during
the 8:00 o'clock events. Period.

The only time "flares" were mentioned were concerning the 5
videos taken near 10:00 pm mst. And these objects (whether ufo
or flares) were not even near Phoenix.

2. The 5 - 10:00 pm videos of strange V-formations (possibly
flares) were in fact almost 65 miles southwest of Phoenix, over
the Barry Goldwater Test Range, in far Southwest Arizona.

Thus, the name "Phoenix Lights" or "flares over Phoenix", does
not truly or accurately exist - at least in reference to the
five 10:00 p.m. MST, videos.

Whether they are flares or UFO, neither have been proven. But
one thing is certain - none were near Phoenix. This has been
the perfect deception. And this is why most people think what
happened that night involves flares and the military.

But, the 8:00 events - the late Doc Barry titled it best - "The
Massive UFO Flyover of Arizona, March 13, 1997"....

For those who witnessed the massive craft during the 8:00 hour,
throughout the State of Arizona, know which title accurately and
correctly say it best.

But truthfully, Mr Ledger, it's was the media who confused the
reader or viewer. It was the media who did not have a clue as to
what happened that night. And it was the media, who showed the
10:00 pm videos, while interviewing 8:00 hour witnesses, to help
debunk the 8:00 events.

Thus confusing everyone. And creating the perfect deception
(lie).

And this is why so few (IMHO) ever get that profoundly wonderous
night right. Nearly everyone has been lied to.(decieved)


Mike Fortson
Gilbert, Az







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                       Re: Flares Over Basra - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 12:44:10 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 16:01:53 -0500
Subject: Re: Flares Over Basra - Ledger


 >From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 05:43:02 -0800
 >Subject: Re: Flares Over Basra

 >>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 13:36:17 -0400
 >>Subject: Flares Over Basra

 >>I imagine more than a few of the investigators here and on other
 >>lists have been noting the look of the flares being used by the
 >>British over Basra today. Now, one has to look again at the so
 >>called flares over Pheonix, Arizona. I for one don't see much of
 >>a match. Nor did I before. The flare trails are very evident.

 >That is what I have been saying all along. I saw the so-called
 >Phoenix 'flares' through a terrestrial telescope and they looked
 >the size of the moon as seen with the naked-eye and just as
 >round.

 >The explanation of flares was offered by the PRO at Davis
 >Monthan AFB in Tucson as an explanation for the white lights
 >seen over Phoenix in the 8 - 8:30 pm time slot. The 9:45 - 10:00
 >pm lights were amber orbs and had emitted no glare.

 >Dr, Macabbee disagrees with me which is his prerogative, but I
 >and other witnesses I interviewed gave similar descriptions.


Hi Bill,

I never did buy the flares explanation in any case. I've seen
them live and even saw some being deployed at sundown over and
inside an MOA about 6 miles off my left wing [I was outside the
MOA]. There was no mistaking they were flares. The sky gets
pretty messed up by the smoke trails illuminated from the flares
below them.

The line of lights I've seen in the live video and the
photographs bears no semblance to any of the flares I've seen.
That semi-circle was to well defined-too neat.

For me Pheonix is unsolved.

Best,

Don






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   Apr > Apr 2

                  Strange Sightings Over Washington Beltway

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 12:05:04 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 16:09:58 -0500
Subject: Strange Sightings Over Washington Beltway


Strange Sightings Within The Washington, D.C. Beltway, March 8, 2003


I would have reported this earlier, but when, on the night of
the observations reported below, I phoned Don Berliner of the
Fund For UFO Research, he told me that I should not report it on
UFO UpDates, when I mentioned the possibility. I didn't ask Don
why he said that, but since it has been so long and I've seen no
reports of this, I can't imagine how this late-reporting could
create a serious 'reporting noise' problem (if that's what Don
was concerned about), so here goes. My apology for reporting
late.....

At 8:15 (20:15 hours) on Saturday evening, March 8, my wife and
I were preparing to leave our home near Greenbelt, Maryland,
when a strange wing-like (No aircraft body visible and we had
ground light off overcast clouds that should have clearly
revealed any body.) Thing - herein-after 'AAO', meaning
anomalous aerial object - was seen to emerge into view
travelling on a twenty-degrees-east of a true north course
passing almost overhead, from having been eclipsed by our front
porch roof. The 'Wing' spanned a _full_ two degrees (120 ARC
minutes) as contrasted with the half-degree (about 30 arc
minute) crescent moon, off to my left during the observation for
immediate and good comparison of angular size.

The 'AAO' was perceived by binocular disparity (visual parallax
due to eye separation) as being 600 to a maximum of 1,200 feet
overhead, and at the time its actual maximum possible distance
was constrained by a thin layer of clouds overhead. Officially,
that cloud layer had been broken at 24,000 feet at 19:51, was
OVERCAST at 23,000 feet at 20:51, scattered by 21:51 same
altitude, and clear by 22:51. (Thanks to Joan Woodward of FUFOR
for the cloud data.)

Most disturbing was the _total_ silence of the nearby object.

A bright, continuously white 'sphere'-looking thing was visible
on the tip of each 'wing' (Color illustration available to
anyone who requests it.). Each white 'sphere' had a very sharp
edge quite different from the lights on ordinary aircraft, and
of a much purer white color. A much smaller (than the white
'spheres') pure red light looked possibly more 'point-source'
and was located in the 'middle' (vertex of the 'wing').  It was
brightening and dimming, but at times it seemed more of a
flicker, and at other times more of a pulse, if memory serves
me.

The 'wing', per se, was quite strange. Although it was visible
by the cloud back-lighting, it was rather vague because subtle
light around it seemed to vibrate or flicker at maybe ten hertz!
- all along and across the 'wing'.

There was _no_ sign of any aircraft type body! Since the sight
was quite 'spooky', maybe one could call them 'disembodied
wings'. :)

We live a few blocks north of the little College Park Airport
which is presently closed down to non-government air traffic due
to security concerns, but this 'AAO' seemed so very low that my
'gut' reaction was that it had taken off from there, despite the
fact that the thing seemed to be on a very flat course (neither
climbing nor descending). Subsequent inquiry to the airport
revealed that there had been no take-off around the 20:15 time
of the first observation, and the airport had closed at 22:30,
fifteen minutes before the second identical observation to be
described below.

Roughly fifty (50) minutes after the first observation, an
airliner type aircraft came over, possibly having taken off from
Andrews AFB just east of D.C. It was on a slightly more westward
bearing and considerably higher up. We could see the aircraft's
body, wings, and tail structure very clearly and hear it very
distinctly. By contrast, the 'AAO' had NO BODY VISIBLE, but only
that weird wing-like structure that remained vague, SEEMING TO
SHIMMER or something - It's really hard to describe. That's why
I have illustrated it in the way that I did in the image anyone
may ask me to send.

Yet, the most striking thing of all was the absolute silence!
There was a bizarre silence, 'stillness',and 'smoothness' that
is hard to explain or even put into adequately descriptive
words.

After the object had disappeared beyond our north-northeastern
horizon (taking roughly 30 seconds time to go from near zenith
across the northern horizon), I ran up to the third floor where
my Extreme Low-Frequency (ELF) magnetometer is located and noted
a low-level, continuous magnetic pulse in roughly the 2-hertz
range, accompanied by a few very strong 'spike' type pulses, one
of which may have 'pegged' the needle. These were not normal
background magnetics.

Coming upon 22:45 hours (10:46 PM), I was again upstairs with
the magnetometer checking for any anomalous activity, when
similar magnetic phenomena began to again be seen by the action
of the needle display and heard on the analog, frequency
modulated audio output (just as before). Watching and listening
to that, I SUDDENLY heard a roar (seemingly directly overhead)
that vaguely resembled a loud jet but was distinctly different,
somehow. Then after a maybe 4 to 5 second duration, that roar
SUDDENLY subsided - taking about 0.5 second to go from loud to
nothing.

Because of the odd magnetic activity and the surprising sound,
at cessation of the sound I rushed downstairs and onto the front
porch, from which I was surprised to see an exactly identical
'AAO' (as compared to the 20:15 observation) on _exactly_ the
_same_ course!

As with the earlier 'AAO', I watched the object from almost
directly overhead as it moved in spookily total silence to
across the exact spot on the north-northeastern horizon into
which the first object had headed and disappeared.

During the first observation, the sky above the thing was
overcast, but in the second sighting it was totally clear, with
all stars and planets visible. Still, I could see no 'body' on
the object, but only the 'wing'. This time, too, the 'wing'
seemed to shimmer in a light-distorting way that made it much
less clear than had the very clear wings, body, and tail section
of the jet aircraft when it was watched at about 22:05 for
comparison to the 20:15 'AAO'.

In both observations of the identical 'AAO', when overhead the
angular distance from white globe of light to white globe of
light ('wingtip'-to-'wingtip') was about 120 minutes or arc (2
degrees), and I had a ready comparison because the crescent moon
(about 28 to 30 arc minutes) was still in the north-west
(although nearer its horizon) during that second and identical
observation.

As most of you probably know from experience, clouds above an
aircraft seem to amplify aircraft sounds to a ground observer,
but although it was overcast during the 20:15 observation, even
then not a sound of any kind could be heard! I found that really
a bit spooky because both things (or two events with the same
single thing) were clearly under power, moving steadily and
unwaveringly along precisely the same course in both
observations. It was as if both had traveled upon the very same
invisible track in the sky!

Let me be clear in saying that I suspect this twice-seen object
of being some type of stealthy black-project aircraft (manned or
unmanned) that is somehow propelled silently, but wonder at the
wisdom of operating such a vehicle over this highly populated
area within the Washington, D.C. Beltway. Oddly, _everything_
seemed so still and quiet during the two passages of the
object(s) that I am reminded of reports of a similar phenomenon
("the OZ factor") reported by certain observers of 'UFOs' at
close range, but would be cautious in saying it was the
UFO-related "OZ" phenomenon because I must consider the
possibility that I had 'perceptually isolated' myself in
listening for a non-existent sound from each 'AAO' to the
exclusion of not noticing other ambient sounds.

Angular velocity of both 'AAO?'s is roughly averaged at three
degrees per second, if the observation time in each case was 30
seconds. If 45 seconds, then it might have been two degrees per
second.

If there are any questions about the observations, do not
hesitate to ask.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of trifles." --
Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery







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   Apr > Apr 2

                        Re: Flares Over Basra - Young

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 12:53:04 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 16:12:44 -0500
Subject: Re: Flares Over Basra - Young


 >From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 05:43:02 -0800
 >Subject: Re: Flares Over Basra

 >>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 13:36:17 -0400
 >>Subject: Flares Over Basra

 >>I imagine more than a few of the investigators here and on other
 >>lists have been noting the look of the flares being used by the
 >>British over Basra today. Now, one has to look again at the so
 >>called flares over Pheonix, Arizona. I for one don't see much of
 >>a match. Nor did I before. The flare trails are very evident.

 >That is what I have been saying all along. I saw the so-called
 >Phoenix 'flares' through a terrestrial telescope and they looked
 >the size of the moon as seen with the naked-eye and just as
 >round.

 >The explanation of flares was offered by the PRO at Davis
 >Monthan AFB in Tucson as an explanation for the white lights
 >seen over Phoenix in the 8 - 8:30 pm time slot. The 9:45 - 10:00
 >pm lights were amber orbs and had emitted no glare.

 >Dr, Macabbee disagrees with me which is his prerogative, but I
 >and other witnesses I interviewed gave similar descriptions.

Don, Bill, List;

Folks there are many variables at play here, such as nature of
deployment plus atmospheric conditions plus camera angle and
proximity. The thing which struck me the most was the evident
smoke from the Basra flare illumination. But I could envision
that flares deployed at a higher elevation and a camera situated
at a far greater distance, such as in the case of Arizona, you
would have something that looked similar.


Take care,

Kenny






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   Apr > Apr 2

                         Flares Over Basra - Stuart

From: Chaz Stuart <Daydisk2@webtv.net>
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 13:23:18 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 16:14:53 -0500
Subject: Flares Over Basra - Stuart


 >From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 13:36:17 -0400
 >Subject: Flares Over Basra

 >I imagine more than a few of the investigators
 >here and on other lists have been noting the
 >look of the flares being used by the British
 >over Basra today. Now, one has to look again
 >at the so called flares over Pheonix, Arizona. I
 >for one don't see much of a match. Nor did I
 >before. The flare trails are very evident.


I agree, Don. I've also seen military flares near where I work,
(Camp Atterbury, Indiana) on numerous occasions. The smoke
trails are evident and the flares don't look like the Phoenix
"flares" at all.

The flare proponents will probably say that there are different
types of flares and/or the Phoenix flares were too far away for
the smoke trails to be seen. Don't know about that...


-Chaz







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   Apr > Apr 2

                   Re: Pravda On Saddam's UFO - Goldstein

From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 21:42:57 +0200
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 16:17:50 -0500
Subject: Re: Pravda On Saddam's UFO - Goldstein


 >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 23:49:54 -0800
 >Subject: Re: Pravda On Saddam's UFO

 >>From: Karl Rotstan <krotstan@bfdmail.com>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 10:27:26 -0500
 >>Subject: Pravda On Saddam's UFO

 >>If it's Pravda, it must be the truth.

 >>Source: http://english.pravda.ru/main/2003/01/31/42821.html

 >>13:47 2003-01-31

 >>Is Hussein Owner of Crashed UFO?

 >Hello Karl:

 >Forgive all my clipping. I just want to cut to the chase
 >and make sure I have this straight:

 >Pravda is reporting that:

 >- UFOlogist Joseph Trainor declared in his review UFO Roundup..

 >- .. It is allegedly said that the craft crashed during the
 >Gulf War (1990-1991), or more recently (probably in December
 >1998)..

 >- UFO Roundup's Arab journalists failed either to confirm or to
 >deny these rumors..

 >- It is rumored at a market in Sulaimaniya, to the south of
 >Zarzi, that aliens are Saddam's guests..

 >- Saddam gave the aliens sanctuary, so they couldn't be
 >captured by Americans..

 >- They say that the aliens created watchdogs for Saddam. The
 >aliens took ordinary desert scorpions and used their bio-
 >engineering to grow the scorpions to giant size. Scorpions of a
 >cow-size! .. They are wonderful watchdogs: they blend in with
 >the desert, swiftly and silently move on their warm-blooded prey
 >for a decisive attack. Luckless intruders hear just some
 >strange sound from behind stones, then a pincer crushes their
 >necks, another pincer crushes their legs; then the victims is
 >slammed to the ground and beaten with a barbed tail six or seven
 >times ...

 >- Joseph Trainor came to a conclusion that something strange is
 >actually happening in the valley of the Little Zab river, but it
 >is not clear what exactly.

 >- It is not ruled out that Saddam intentionally spreads these
 >rumors to scare people away from some important military object
 >located in the old fortress of Qalaat-e-Julundi.

 >- - -

 >I don't need to go on. I just wanted to make sure I had the good
 >parts down right. This sure beats the usual litany of Night
 >Lights and Chupacabra attacks.


Hi Larry,

What a great B grade movie it would make to have Apache
helicopters fighting off giant desert scorpions. It is also not
ruled out that Saddam's tribe from Tikrit are evil aliens who
came from some evil planet and took over the bodies a long time
ago. Saddam was a murderer when he was barely into his teens.
Then again, maybe the aliens kicked him out because he was too
evil for even them. Is he related to Evil Knievel?

For the first time I have seen some truth in Pravda since its
birth in the Soviet Union. The only truth is in the disclaimer
at the end where they say they doubt the story is true. It's a
shame because a giant desert scorpion would make an awesome pet
to walk down the street on a leash. Pit Bulls and Chupies would
die just from fear.

In any event, while watching the war we will want to see if the
aliens and the Scorpions make their appearances. I wonder if
Linda Moulton Howe is already trying to get into Iraq? She could
be in my cheesy movie but I would cast her in a similar role as
the crystal hugging new age woman who stood on the rim of a
canyon blessing the alien ships on their final approach to
landing in the movie Mars Attacks! Unfortunately she was
instantly vaporized. I must admit that in my evil psyche I
laughed at that. I would not laugh if LMH got vaporized but I
would probably giggle if Peter Gersten played the role in his
purple robes of spiritual splendor.

Perhaps I should pitch this idea to Tim Burton and also stock up
on scorpion antidote before they emerge from the Mojave desert
just like the giant ants in the movie Them! They would emerge in
LA from the sewers.

Maybe at area 51 they have bioengineered our own stealth giant
scorpions and are flying them into Iraq for the battle royale. A
long time ago John Lear hinted at such a thing. If Bob Lazar had
seen them at S4 he would have been eliminated by now. That would
be good for the movie. It's a shame that Corso never was there.
Oh, by the way, this will be the first postmodern movie,
symbolising absolutely nothing.


Stay away from the desert,

Josh









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                          Secrecy News -- 04/02/03

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 14:47:27 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 16:20:10 -0500
Subject: Secrecy News -- 04/02/03



SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2003, Issue No. 28
April 2, 2003


**      OVERCOMING SECRECY IN A DAY
**      SECRECY MEETINGS GALORE
**      RECENT FOIA LITIGATION
**      RULING BOLSTERS EXECUTIVE PRIVILEGE


OVERCOMING SECRECY IN A DAY

Sometimes official secrecy can be quickly overcome simply by
calling attention to it, and questioning the need for it.

When a panel of scientists was convened by the Central
Intelligence Agency for an unclassified workshop last January to
consider the potential terrorist threat that could arise from
life science research, they soon reached a consensus that the
threat was real and, in fact, quite serious.  Yet at the same
time, they concluded for a variety of familiar reasons that
"openness in scientific research is the only way to go."

On the morning of April 2, however, the workshop participants
were informed that the final summary report of the workshop
advocating openness would be classified.

This ironic announcement produced a modest rebellion among some
of the scientists and by the end of the day on Tuesday, CIA was
indicating that "We will definitely look into putting out an
unclassified version of the report for workshop attendees."

The whole episode neatly captured the dynamic of a process that
normally plays out over a longer period of time.

First, it showed that secrecy is a primal instinct of at least
some government agencies.  Certainly nondisclosure is the
default mode at CIA.

Second, it showed that secrecy makes a poor fit with the
deliberative process, particularly when a matter of public
policy is involved.  Participants want to trumpet their views,
receive credit for their contributions, and share their
conclusions.

Finally, the dispute demonstrated that change is possible.
  There is enough plasticity even in the CIA to bring about a
shift in policy and practice.

All of this suggests something like the bureaucratic equivalent
of "ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny" (the biological notion,
not strictly correct, that the development of an individual
repeats the developmental stages of his species).  Bureaucracies
typically begin with a strong preference for secrecy but can
evolve, under pressure, towards greater openness -- and they do,
over and over again.  The task at hand is to generate that
pressure.

The CIA-sponsored workshop was organized by the National
Research Council Board on Life Sciences.  It is briefly
described, under the caption "Genomics Databases for
Bioterrorism Threat Agents: Striking a Balance for Information
Sharing," on this page:

http://www4.nationalacademies.org/dels/blshome.nsf/web/Current_A
ctivitie s


SECRECY MEETINGS GALORE

It's a sign of the times.  There are now more conferences and
meetings scheduled to discuss various aspects of government
secrecy policy than one would care to attend, even if one were
invited.

The Center for Strategic and International Studies and the
National Academy of Sciences "will convene a series of meetings
and related projects over the next two years in which the
security and scientific communities, along with leaders of
industry, will meet to address ... how to manage the risks of
malevolent use of so-called 'sensitive unclassified information'
that might enable terrorists to produce and deliver chemical,
biological or nuclear weapons; ...."

Two meetings a year will be held by a new "Roundtable on
Scientific Communication and National Security."  The Roundtable
is not to be confused with its twin, the "Commission on
Scientific Communication and National Security," that will
convene its own gatherings.

See this CSIS announcement:

http://www.csis.org/tech/ssi/csis_na.htm

Meanwhile, "Mounting restrictions on access to government
information and the degree to which such secrecy enhances
national security" will be examined as part of an April 24-25
conference on "Security, Technology, and Privacy: Shaping a 21st
Century Public Information Policy" at Georgetown University Law
Center.  See:

http://insites.heinz.cmu.edu/securityandprivacy/index.html

And "National Security and Open Government" in the U.S. and
abroad will be the subject of a May 5 symposium at the Brookings
Institution, the culmination of a series of online publications
presented here:

http://www.maxwell.syr.edu/campbell/opengov/

Each of these events (and there are several others) involves a
slightly different set of participants and is geared to a
distinct audience.  If nothing else, the proliferation of such
meetings shows that a growing number of people are exercised by
problems of secrecy and openness.


RECENT FOIA LITIGATION

The Justice Department Office of Information and Privacy
continues to perform a public service by compiling and
publishing descriptive citations of judicial rulings in Freedom
of Information Act cases.

The latest edition, "New FOIA Decisions, January-March 2003,"
includes a couple of dozen decisions in diverse issue areas.
  The list is leavened by curiosities such as the individual who
filed an appeal 10 years after his request was denied, and
another who agreed in advance to pay for search fees but then
did not do so. See:

http://www.usdoj.gov/oip/foiapost/2003foiapost13.htm


RULING BOLSTERS EXECUTIVE PRIVILEGE

In a decision that takes an expansive view of executive
privilege and that is therefore likely to reinforce White House
secrecy, a federal court has sided with the Bush Administration
and ruled that various records concerning pardons granted by
President Bill Clinton are exempt from the Freedom of
Information Act.

"As strong a supporter as the Court is of FOIA's liberal
disclosure of government documents and as great as the public
interest in disclosure of the documents requested by Plaintiff
may be, the case law concerning the ability of the government to
withhold certain documents under the presidential communications
privilege is clear," wrote Judge Gladys Kessler in a March 28
ruling. The denied records had been sought by Judicial Watch, a
conservative watchdog organization.  See the text of the
decision here:

http://www.dcd.uscourts.gov/01-639.pdf

The ruling was reported in "White House Request To Restrict
Clinton Pardon Data Upheld" by George Lardner, Jr., Washington
Post, April 2:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A5460-2003Apr1.html

_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood@fas.org
voice:  (202) 454-4691






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               Re: Strange Sightings Over Washington Beltway -

From: Erik Landahl <landahl1@attbi.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 13:26:16 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 16:42:17 -0500
Subject: Re: Strange Sightings Over Washington Beltway -


 >From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 12:05:04 -0500
 >Subject: Strange Sightings Over Washington Beltway

<snip>

When I saw the post's 'Subject:', I thought you had seen
a couple of honest politicians.  :)









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                      Re: Flares Over Basra - Hamilton

From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 14:03:34 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 17:15:09 -0500
Subject: Re: Flares Over Basra - Hamilton


 >From: Mike Fortson <satmike@cox.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 07:45:56 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Flares Over Basra

 >>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 13:36:17 -0400
 >>Subject: Flares Over Basra

 >>I imagine more than a few of the investigators here and on other
 >>lists have been noting the look of the flares being used by the
 >>British over Basra today. Now, one has to look again at the so
 >>called flares over Pheonix, Arizona. I for one don't see much of
 >>a match. Nor did I before. The flare trails are very evident.

 >List,

 >I have been a lurker on UFO UpDates for a couple years now. This
 >is my first post.

 >I would like to add my two cents to what Mr Ledger said
 >concerning March 13, 1997. The night of the so-called Phoenix
 >Lights.

 >My wife and I are 8:30 pm mst witnesses to the massive V-shaped
 >craft. We saw it upclose and very personel. I feel that I am
 >very qualified to say the following:

 >These statements, with all due respect to Mr Ledger, show
 >exactly how the misconception of what happened on March 13,
 >1997, exists.

 >1. No one has ever said "flares over Phoenix" during
 >the 8:00 o'clock events. Period.

 >The only time "flares" were mentioned were concerning the 5
 >videos taken near 10:00 pm mst. And these objects (whether ufo
 >or flares) were not even near Phoenix.


Hi Mike, good to hear from you on this List.

However, I must add a tiny correction. When the flare story
first broke out of Tucson, the Tucson paper indicated the flares
dropped by the Maryland ANG were dropped before 8:30 pm, thus it
said that the lights that you and others reported seeing at
around that time were generated by LU-U2 flares. I still have a
copy of the paper.

Later, the story was changed to the 10:00 pm event.


-Bill Hamilton







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                      Re: Flares Over Basra - Hamilton

From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 14:10:24 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 17:56:20 -0500
Subject: Re: Flares Over Basra - Hamilton


 >From: Tom King <tomking2030@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 14:13:44 +0000
 >Subject: Re: Flares Over Basra

 >>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 05:43:02 -0800
 >>Subject: Re: Flares Over Basra

 >>>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 13:36:17 -0400
 >>>Subject: Flares Over Basra

 >>>I imagine more than a few of the investigators here and on other
 >>>lists have been noting the look of the flares being used by the
 >>>British over Basra today. Now, one has to look again at the so
 >>>called flares over Pheonix, Arizona. I for one don't see much of
 >>>a match. Nor did I before. The flare trails are very evident.

 >>That is what I have been saying all along. I saw the so-called
 >>Phoenix 'flares' through a terrestrial telescope and they looked
 >>the size of the moon as seen with the naked-eye and just as
 >>round.

 >I just wanted to add here the scope Bill used that night is one
 >of mine. I have tested it later to look at known flares the
 >military dropped in the exact area at later dates. On 3/13/97 we
 >were too far for my scope to see smoke trails with my scope under
 >normal circumstances.

Tom,

We may have been far away, but still no flare is going to look
as round as the moon. The telescope, your Celestron, had enough
quality to show that.

I have looked at flares at 29 Palms from about 40-50 miles
distance with Bushnell 10X50 and could still tell they were
flares.

What we taped that night was seen by others at other times
moving horizontally overhead in formations - their description
is identical, and now other witnesses, including Mike Krysten,
say that the lights seen on Jan. 14th were identical, as he
looked through his telescope and saw one centeredthere, for
some minutes, without motion. He did not move his scope.

Those lights lasted over 20+ minutes.

-Bill H






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                       Re: Flares Over Basra - Fortson

From: Mike Fortson <satmike@cox.net>
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 15:39:01 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 18:00:28 -0500
Subject: Re: Flares Over Basra - Fortson



 >From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 14:03:34 -0800
 >Subject: Re: Flares Over Basra

 >>From: Mike Fortson <satmike@cox.net>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 07:45:56 -0700
 >>Subject: Re: Flares Over Basra

 >>>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 13:36:17 -0400
 >>>Subject: Flares Over Basra

 >>>I imagine more than a few of the investigators here and on other
 >>>lists have been noting the look of the flares being used by the
 >>>British over Basra today. Now, one has to look again at the so
 >>>called flares over Pheonix, Arizona. I for one don't see much of
 >>>a match. Nor did I before. The flare trails are very evident.

 >>I have been a lurker on UFO UpDates for a couple years now. This
 >>is my first post.

 >>I would like to add my two cents to what Mr Ledger said
 >>concerning March 13, 1997. The night of the so-called Phoenix
 >>Lights.

 >>My wife and I are 8:30 pm mst witnesses to the massive V-shaped
 >>craft. We saw it upclose and very personel. I feel that I am
 >>very qualified to say the following:

 >>These statements, with all due respect to Mr Ledger, show
 >>exactly how the misconception of what happened on March 13,
 >>1997, exists.

 >>1. No one has ever said "flares over Phoenix" during
 >>the 8:00 o'clock events. Period.

 >>The only time "flares" were mentioned were concerning the 5
 >>videos taken near 10:00 pm mst. And these objects (whether ufo
 >>or flares) were not even near Phoenix.

 >However, I must add a tiny correction. When the flare story
 >first broke out of Tucson, the Tucson paper indicated the flares
 >dropped by the Maryland ANG were dropped before 8:30 pm, thus it
 >said that the lights that you and others reported seeing at
 >around that time were generated by LU-U2 flares. I still have a
 >copy of the paper.

 >Later, the story was changed to the 10:00 pm event.

Greetings Bill and List,

The point I was trying to make, is the name given to the March
13, 1997, Phoenix Lights, is wrong. Those lights on the five
10:00 p.m. MST videos were not over Phoenix. Or even in Maricopa
county. But the media deemed the deceptive title, and it stuck.

And no one involved in the investigation or witnesses have ever
claimed "flares" when discussing the 8:16 p.m. MST, Pauldon,
Az., sightings through what we saw in Chandler at 8:30 p.m. MST.

And as you well know, we saw much more than lights.

I always thought it was Capt. Eileen Beinz who broke the story
of flares. It was reported in the Arizona Republic. Her
"solution" to the apparent "problem" was front page news.

The problem with her story was altitude. I think the final
altitude of the flares, to make it seen in Phoenix, were near
16,000'. I asked her, on air during a live radio call-in, was
that altitude the drop altitude? Or the ignition altitude? She
went totally quite and KTAR went to commercial.


Mike






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                       Re: Flares Over Basra - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 18:43:24 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 18:04:19 -0500
Subject: Re: Flares Over Basra - Ledger


 >From: Mike Fortson <satmike@cox.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 07:45:56 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Flares Over Basra

 >>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 13:36:17 -0400
 >>Subject: Flares Over Basra

 >>I imagine more than a few of the investigators here and on
 >>other lists have been noting the look of the flares being
 >>used by the British over Basra today. Now, one has to look
 >>again at the so called flares over Pheonix, Arizona. I for
 >>one don't see much of a match. Nor did I before. The flare
 >>trails are very evident.



 >List,

 >I have been a lurker on UFO UpDates for a couple years now.
 >This is my first post.

 >I would like to add my two cents to what Mr Ledger said
 >concerning March 13, 1997. The night of the so-called Phoenix
 > Lights.

 >My wife and I are 8:30 pm mst witnesses to the massive
 >V-shaped craft. We saw it upclose and very personel. I feel
 >that I am very qualified to say the following:


 >These statements, with all due respect to Mr Ledger, show
 >exactly how the misconception of what happened on March 13,
 >1997, exists.

 >1. No one has ever said "flares over Phoenix" during the 8:00
 >o'clock events. Period.

 >The only time "flares" were mentioned were concerning the 5
 >videos taken near 10:00 pm mst. And these objects (whether
 >ufo or flares) were not even near Phoenix.

 >2. The 5 - 10:00 pm videos of strange V-formations (possibly
 > flares) were in fact almost 65 miles southwest of Phoenix,
 >over the Barry Goldwater Test Range, in far Southwest
 >Arizona.

 >Thus, the name "Phoenix Lights" or "flares over Phoenix",
 >does not truly or accurately exist - at least in reference to
 >the five 10:00 p.m. MST, videos.

 >Whether they are flares or UFO, neither have been proven. But
 > one thing is certain - none were near Phoenix. This has been
 > the perfect deception. And this is why most people think
 >what happened that night involves flares and the military.

 >But, the 8:00 events - the late Doc Barry titled it best -
 >"The Massive UFO Flyover of Arizona, March 13, 1997"....

 >For those who witnessed the massive craft during the 8:00
 >hour, throughout the State of Arizona, know which title
 >accurately and correctly say it best.

 >But truthfully, Mr Ledger, it's was the media who confused
 >the reader or viewer. It was the media who did not have a
 >clue as to what happened that night. And it was the media,
 >who showed the 10:00 pm videos, while interviewing 8:00 hour
 >witnesses, to help debunk the 8:00 events.

 >Thus confusing everyone. And creating the perfect deception
 >(lie).

 >And this is why so few (IMHO) ever get that profoundly
 >wonderous night right. Nearly everyone has been lied
 >to.(decieved)



Hi Mike,

First of all it's Don okay. And this was my point. I've been
hearing that both the 8pm and 10:00 PM events were claimed as
flares. It's the 8:00 PM of which I speak. Apparently a good
case can be made for for flares during the 10:00 PM event. But
the 8:00 PM event is getting mixed in with it.

I raised the event again due to the fact that people can see for
themselves what these flares look like as they drop and decide
for themselves.

But it's not only the Pheonix anomalies, there are many other
sightings that get short shrift when flares are offered up as an
explanation for a UFO sighting.

Best,

Don Ledger






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                       Re: Flares Over Basra - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 19:37:31 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 19:11:19 -0500
Subject: Re: Flares Over Basra - Ledger


 >From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto (<ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 12:53:04 -0800
 >Subject: Re: Flares Over Basra

 >>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 05:43:02 -0800
 >>Subject: Re: Flares Over Basra

 >>>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 13:36:17 -0400
 >>>Subject: Flares Over Basra

 >>>I imagine more than a few of the investigators here and on other
 >>>lists have been noting the look of the flares being used by the
 >>>British over Basra today. Now, one has to look again at the so
 >>>called flares over Pheonix, Arizona. I for one don't see much of
 >>>a match. Nor did I before. The flare trails are very evident.

 >>That is what I have been saying all along. I saw the so-called
 >>Phoenix 'flares' through a terrestrial telescope and they looked
 >>the size of the moon as seen with the naked-eye and just as
 >>round.

 >>The explanation of flares was offered by the PRO at Davis
 >>Monthan AFB in Tucson as an explanation for the white lights
 >>seen over Phoenix in the 8 - 8:30 pm time slot. The 9:45 - 10:00
 >>pm lights were amber orbs and had emitted no glare.

 >>Dr, Macabbee disagrees with me which is his prerogative, but I
 >>and other witnesses I interviewed gave similar descriptions.

 >Folks there are many variables at play here, such as nature of
deployment plus atmospheric conditions plus camera angle and
proximity. The thing which struck me the most was the evident
smoke from the Basra flare illumination. But I could envision
that flares deployed at a higher elevation and a camera situated
at a far greater distance, such as in the case of Arizona, you
would have something that looked similar.


Hi Kenny,

Why would you deploy multible flares at a high altitude. Think
what they are for.

In any event they are typically preset [before take-off] to
ignite at about 500 to 1,500 feet above the ground. Above that
they are pretty much useless for ground illumination. However
they can be released at high altitude and ignite at the altitude
set for best illumination depending on  circumstances. The only
reason to ignite at high altitude is to mark an area that will
remain for some minutes as it descends. But setting off a dozen
of them say to mark a location would only confuse the issue.

The LUU 2b/b is one of the most commonly used military flares.
Go here:

http://www.tpub.com/aviord321/51.htm

for a brief description of the flare's size, and function, etc.


Best,

Don Ledger









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   Apr > Apr 2

                       Re: Flares Over Basra - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 19:40:23 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 19:14:04 -0500
Subject: Re: Flares Over Basra - Ledger


 >From: Chaz Stuart <Daydisk2@webtv.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 13:23:18 -0500 (EST)
 >Subject: Flares Over Basra

 >>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 13:36:17 -0400
 >>Subject: Flares Over Basra

 >>I imagine more than a few of the investigators
 >>here and on other lists have been noting the
 >>look of the flares being used by the British
 >>over Basra today. Now, one has to look again
 >>at the so called flares over Pheonix, Arizona. I
 >>for one don't see much of a match. Nor did I
 >>before. The flare trails are very evident.

 >I agree, Don. I've also seen military flares near where I work,
 >(Camp Atterbury, Indiana) on numerous occasions. The smoke
 >trails are evident and the flares don't look like the Phoenix
 >"flares" at all.

 >The flare proponents will probably say that there are different
 >types of flares and/or the Phoenix flares were too far away for
 >the smoke trails to be seen. Don't know about that...



Hi Chaz,

hastily-as Stan sez:

The flares being used by the military US/ Canada are the LUU
2B/B. Chexck here for function and utility.

http://www.tpub.com/aviord321/51.htm

Hope this helps.


Don Ledger






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   Apr > Apr 3

                    Re: Pravda On Saddam's UFO - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 19:10:33 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 05:44:10 -0500
Subject: Re: Pravda On Saddam's UFO - Maccabee


 >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 23:49:54 -0800
 >Subject: Re: Pravda On Saddam's UFO

 >>From: Karl Rotstan <krotstan@bfdmail.com>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 10:27:26 -0500
 >>Subject: Pravda On Saddam's UFO

 >>If it's Pravda, it must be the truth.

 >>Source: http://english.pravda.ru/main/2003/01/31/42821.html

 >>13:47 2003-01-31

 >>Is Hussein Owner of Crashed UFO?


 >Hello Karl:

 >Forgive all my clipping. I just want to cut to the chase
 >and make sure I have this straight:

 >Pravda is reporting that:

 > - Ufologist Joseph Trainor declared in his review UFO Roundup..

 > - .. It is allegedly said that the craft crashed during the
 >Gulf War (1990-1991), or more recently (probably in December
 >1998)..

<snip>

 >> - They say that the aliens created watchdogs for Saddam. The
 >>aliens took ordinary desert scorpions and used their bio-
 >>engineering to grow the scorpions to giant size. Scorpions of a
 >>cow-size! .. They are wonderful watchdogs: they blend in with
 >>the desert, swiftly and silently move on their warm-blooded prey
 >>for a decisive attack. Luckless intruders hear just some
 >>strange sound from behind stones, then a pincer crushes their
 >>necks, another pincer crushes their legs; then the victims is
 >>slammed to the ground and beaten with a barbed tail six or seven
t>>imes ...


 >I don't need to go on. I just wanted to make sure I had the good
 >parts down right. This sure beats the usual litany of Night
 >Lights and Chupacabra attacks.

The bit about the scorpions really got to me!. Reminds of the
movie Starship Troopers. Also the giant ants in 'Them!'

Sad Man Hussein better get his scorpion/dogs in action right
away. Time is running out for him!






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   Apr > Apr 3

                      Re: Flares Over Basra - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 19:10:42 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 05:46:34 -0500
Subject: Re: Flares Over Basra - Maccabee


 >From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 05:43:02 -0800
 >Subject: Re: Flares Over Basra

 >>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 13:36:17 -0400
 >>Subject: Flares Over Basra

 >>I imagine more than a few of the investigators here and on other
 >>lists have been noting the look of the flares being used by the
 >>British over Basra today. Now, one has to look again at the so
 >>called flares over Pheonix, Arizona. I for one don't see much of
 >>a match. Nor did I before. The flare trails are very evident.

 >Don,

 >That is what I have been saying all along. I saw the so-called
 >Phoenix 'flares' through a terrestrial telescope and they looked
 >the size of the moon as seen with the naked-eye and just as
 >round.

 >The explanation of flares was offered by the PRO at Davis
 >Monthan AFB in Tucson as an explanation for the white lights
 >seen over Phoenix in the 8 - 8:30 pm time slot. The 9:45 - 10:00
 >pm lights were amber orbs and had emitted no glare.

 >Dr, Macabbee disagrees with me which is his prerogative, but I
 >and other witnesses I interviewed gave similar descriptions.

I should like to point out that the main source of my
disagreement are the triangulations which I carried out based on
the three videos (Krysten, Lynn, Riordan) I analyzed.  The
triangulations showed that that the lights in the videos were
far south of Phoenix.  The video by King was consistent with
that.

I also showed that the lights in the videos did not remain
perfectly stationary relative to the ground but rather fell
downward and to the left.

See http://brumac.8k.com

and scroll down to phoenix lights.






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   Apr > Apr 3

                        Re: Flares Over Basra - King

From: Tom King <tomking2030@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 01:28:56 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 05:52:22 -0500
Subject: Re: Flares Over Basra - King


 >From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 14:10:24 -0800
 >Subject: Re: Flares Over Basra

 >>From: Tom King <tomking2030@hotmail.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 14:13:44 +0000
 >>Subject: Re: Flares Over Basra

 >>>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 05:43:02 -0800
 >>>Subject: Re: Flares Over Basra

 >>>>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>>Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 13:36:17 -0400
 >>>>Subject: Flares Over Basra

 >>>>I imagine more than a few of the investigators here and on other
 >>>>lists have been noting the look of the flares being used by the
 >>>>British over Basra today. Now, one has to look again at the so
 >>>>called flares over Pheonix, Arizona. I for one don't see much of
 >>>>a match. Nor did I before. The flare trails are very evident.

 >>>That is what I have been saying all along. I saw the so-called
 >>>Phoenix 'flares' through a terrestrial telescope and they looked
 >>>the size of the moon as seen with the naked-eye and just as
 >>>round.

 >>I just wanted to add here the scope Bill used that night is one
 >>of mine. I have tested it later to look at known flares the
 >>military dropped in the exact area at later dates. On 3/13/97 we
 >>were too far for my scope to see smoke trails with my scope under
 >>normal circumstances.

 >We may have been far away, but still no flare is going to look
 >as round as the moon. The telescope, your Celestron, had enough
 >quality to show that.

My scope you used was a 'Pro Optic' not a Celestron scope. It
says the name right on the side. Its a generic version of what
Celestron made and its focusing mirror certainly isn't perfect.
As I said before I tested all my gear on military flares at
later dates you can't see flares that far away.

 >I have looked at flares at 29 Palms from about 40-50 miles
 >distance with Bushnell 10X50 and could still tell they were
 >flares.

Thats California not Arizona. We have dust everywhere, but on
3-13-97 it did seem clear.

 >What we taped that night was seen by others at other times
 >moving horizontally overhead in formations - their description
 >is identical, and now other witnesses, including Mike Krysten,
 >say that the lights seen on Jan. 14th were identical, as he
 >looked through his telescope and saw one centeredthere, for
 >some minutes, without motion. He did not move his scope.

Mike Krysten, or whatever his name is, lives 75+ miles from the
location of these lights. His scope is worse than mine. Plus he
is looking over 30 miles of downtown smog, and other pollution.

If my scope couldn't identify the lights from 25 miles, why do
you think he could at 75 miles away with pollution? Also the
lights on Jan 14th were most likely flares as two videos from
Casa Grande were within 10-15 miles.

On one of those lights you can see the smoke! I have the videos
from Jan. 14th 1998 and they match flare drops the military
does. There were other orange light sightings afterward. I was
in the desert taping them from a variety of distances. Including
one area so close we were with 3 miles of them. You can see
smoke, the sky lit up, everything.

However 'certain' people taped these lights from their homes 70
miles away in Phoenix and the local news aired it as another
"Phoenix Lights" event. What I saw first hand as flares, others,
miles away in the city, saw a 'UFO sighting'. Their tapes from 70
miles away matched the videos from 3-13-97 and Jan. 14th 1998.


 >Those lights lasted over 20+ minutes.

According to who? It wasn't caught on tape. That can't be proven.

I think the List should know that some people in Phoenix don't
want to talk about the truth behind the 10:00 pm videos. Some
people have books they're pushing, others sell their rights to
video over and over to TLC and other TV media. The amount of
money can add up if you have good control over your video and
sell it 30 times to the media. Clearly a there is vested
interest from some parties involved in these events to profit or
promote their items.


Tom King








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   Apr > Apr 3

                           Inexplicata Site Moving

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 08:39:39 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 18:48:51 -0500
Subject: Inexplicata Site Moving


INEXPLICATA
The Journal of Hispanic Ufology
April 2, 2003


Dear Friends of INEXPLICATA:

Due to circumstances beyond our control, the Inexplicata website
(www.inexplicata.com) is being shut down. We are pleased to have
been able to serve your information needs without interruption
since 1998.

A replacement site will soon be up and running at:

www.inexplicata.us

and an announcement shall be made when it is ready.

Regards and many thanks for your continued support,


Scott Corrales
Institute of Hispanic Ufology
Inexplicata--The Journal of Hispanic Ufology







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   Apr > Apr 3

               Re: Strange Sightings Over Washington Beltway -

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 09:28:44 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 18:50:19 -0500
Subject: Re: Strange Sightings Over Washington Beltway -


 >From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 12:05:04 -0500
 >Subject: Strange Sightings Over Washington Beltway


 >Strange Sightings Within The Washington, D.C. Beltway, March 8, 2003

Ray,

Thanks for that surprising report. I presume you have emailed it
to George Filer, or perhaps he has seen it on UpDates.

Have you had other magnetic anomalies in recent weeks or months?







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   Apr > Apr 3

                      Re: Flares Over Basra - Hamilton

From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 06:52:18 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 18:52:45 -0500
Subject: Re: Flares Over Basra - Hamilton


 >From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 19:37:31 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Flares Over Basra

 >>From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto (<ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 12:53:04 -0800
 >>Subject: Re: Flares Over Basra

 >>>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 05:43:02 -0800
 >>>Subject: Re: Flares Over Basra

 >>>>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>>Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 13:36:17 -0400
 >>>>Subject: Flares Over Basra

 >>>>I imagine more than a few of the investigators here and on other
 >>>>lists have been noting the look of the flares being used by the
 >>>>British over Basra today. Now, one has to look again at the so
 >>>>called flares over Pheonix, Arizona. I for one don't see much of
 >>>>a match. Nor did I before. The flare trails are very evident.

 >>>That is what I have been saying all along. I saw the so-called
 >>>Phoenix 'flares' through a terrestrial telescope and they looked
 >>>the size of the moon as seen with the naked-eye and just as
 >>>round.

 >>>The explanation of flares was offered by the PRO at Davis
 >>>Monthan AFB in Tucson as an explanation for the white lights
 >>>seen over Phoenix in the 8 - 8:30 pm time slot. The 9:45 - 10:00
 >>>pm lights were amber orbs and had emitted no glare.

 >>>Dr, Macabbee disagrees with me which is his prerogative, but I
 >>>and other witnesses I interviewed gave similar descriptions.

 >>Folks there are many variables at play here, such as nature of
 >deployment plus atmospheric conditions plus camera angle and
 >proximity. The thing which struck me the most was the evident
 >smoke from the Basra flare illumination. But I could envision
 >that flares deployed at a higher elevation and a camera situated
 >at a far greater distance, such as in the case of Arizona, you
 >would have something that looked similar.

 >Why would you deploy multible flares at a high altitude. Think
 >what they are for.

 >In any event they are typically preset [before take-off] to
 >ignite at about 500 to 1,500 feet above the ground. Above that
 >they are pretty much useless for ground illumination. However
 >they can be released at high altitude and ignite at the altitude
 >set for best illumination depending on circumstances. The only
 >reason to ignite at high altitude is to mark an area that will
 >remain for some minutes as it descends. But setting off a dozen
 >of them say to mark a location would only confuse the issue.

 >The LUU 2b/b is one of the most commonly used military flares.
 >Go here:

 >http://www.tpub.com/aviord321/51.htm

 >for a brief description of the flare's size, and function, etc.

Don,

No matter what I have said there will be those that will persist
in their belief that these were flares that we saw on March
13th. Even Tom King keeps forgetting that we saw a "double"
light at 9:45 PM (I looked at my watch) and it was the first to
reappear at 10:00 PM in the same locaation!

BTW, he never looked through his own telescope so he doen't know
what I saw. He was certain these lights were not flares until he
had a falling out with Jim Diletosso, then he reversed his
position. That is what I saw happen.

I called the manufacturer of the LU-U2 flares and they confirmed
what the USAF said, that they are magnesium flares that burn
bright white. Photos of these flares look nothing like the
lights we saw.








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   Apr > Apr 3

                Phoenix Lights Redux [was: Flares Over Basra]

From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 07:03:20 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 18:56:22 -0500
Subject: Phoenix Lights Redux [was: Flares Over Basra]


 >From: Mike Fortson <satmike@cox.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 15:39:01 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Flares Over Basra

 >>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 14:03:34 -0800
 >>Subject: Re: Flares Over Basra

<snip>

 >>However, I must add a tiny correction. When the flare story
 >>first broke out of Tucson, the Tucson paper indicated the flares
 >>dropped by the Maryland ANG were dropped before 8:30 pm, thus it
 >>said that the lights that you and others reported seeing at
 >>around that time were generated by LU-U2 flares. I still have a
 >>copy of the paper.

 >>Later, the story was changed to the 10:00 pm event.

 >The point I was trying to make, is the name given to the March
 >13, 1997, Phoenix Lights, is wrong. Those lights on the five
 >10:00 p.m. MST videos were not over Phoenix. Or even in Maricopa
 >county. But the media deemed the deceptive title, and it stuck.

 >And no one involved in the investigation or witnesses have ever
 >claimed "flares" when discussing the 8:16 p.m. MST, Pauldon,
 >Az., sightings through what we saw in Chandler at 8:30 p.m. MST.

That is correct Mike. However, it seems like there are still
many unaware that these amber lights at 10 were seen elsewhere
at different times of the night at different locations, and some
even seen rising vertically! Also, the big triangle was seen
with amber lights that could detach.

 >And as you well know, we saw much more than lights.

Yes, you and others reported seeing a structure. You could see
it because part of that structure passed in front of the moon.
Others could see structure because of the reflection of ground
light and because the structure passed over at low altitude.

 >I always thought it was Capt. Eileen Beinz who broke the story
 >of flares. It was reported in the Arizona Republic. Her
 >"solution" to the apparent "problem" was front page news.

Only after I asked her to look and she contacted Davis-Monthan
who, it turns out, had just released the story in the Tucson
newspaper, but the Tucson paper was clear that the A-10s
returned to base by 8:30 PM, the LU-U2 flares were white and so
they concluded that what you saw were flares. It was Eileen who
appended this explanation to the 10 PM videos.

 >The problem with her story was altitude. I think the final
 >altitude of the flares, to make it seen in Phoenix, were near
 >16,000'. I asked her, on air during a live radio call-in, was
 >that altitude the drop altitude? Or the ignition altitude? She
 >went totally quite and KTAR went to commercial.

They would have to be that high to be seen over the mountains,
but there were some below the mountains to the far right, but
since everyone is convinced they were above the mountains I am
just traveling around on a carousel so I just say let people
believe what they want to believe, but they are not taking in
the whole picture and including all of the events of that night.

Remember Trig Johnston? He also saw the same amber lights. His
decription is so similar as to be identical, except they were
moving horizontally in formation as a unit. As an airline pilot,
he could not explain what he was seeing.


-Bill






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   Apr > Apr 3

                     Interview With Chilean UFO Witness

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 13:33:51 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 19:04:05 -0500
Subject: Interview With Chilean UFO Witness


SOURCE: Terra.cl and Mundomisterioso.com
DATE: April 03, 2002

INTERVIEW WITH EYEWITNESS TO CHILEAN UFO SIGHTING

Fernando Martinez is a student of graphic design. On March 21 he
happened to be at the corner of Pedro de Valdivia and
Providencia (Chile). It was noon and a knot of people looked
skyward with curiosity. A series of unknown luminous objects
could be seen unaided over the area: it was among the most
massive UFO sightings of recent times.

So what happened that day?

Well, I was walking along Providencia. I'd gone shopping, and I
suddenly realized that many people were looking at the sky and
pointing with their fingers. I looked and was able to see a
light without any defined shape. But later, looking at it more
closely, I was able to see over 50 smaller lights all around.
They didn't move much. At least not noticeably.

What did you think at the time?

Well, I thought it was some kind of peace demonstration. But I
had already seen those balloons that get filled with helium and
these had no relation to them whatsoever. All the people were
saying: "Look, they're UFOs!"

Didn't you think that they could be something else?

I also said they could have been airplanes, but it seemed
strange to me at that altitude. Later, seeing their movement, I
realized they weren't airplanes.

You didn't hear any noise?

Well, with the noise on Providencia, even though they'd made
noise, we wouldn't of heard a thing.

How did people react?
They were calm. Of course, there are always those who showed off
saying they were Iraqi aircraft or Martians. But in general, all
of the spectators were very interested in the phenomenon.

Were you aware that the sighting coincided with the allied
attack on Iraq?

I found out later when I saw the news. I still find [the whole
thing] curious, nonetheless.

Do you think there could be any relationship?

In the article I saw they were discussing that UFOs always
appear whenever there's a tragedy unfolding. It could be sheer
happenstance. I don't known that there's any connection. Which
is why I'm telling you its curious.

How long did the sighting last?

I watched for about half an hour, but the UFOs remained there. I
had other things to do. But it would seem to have lasted
somewhat longer than an hour.

Do you think that there is an explanation for this event?
It's possible. One never knows. But I think that no officials
have said anything to date.

What do you think about this phenomenon, now that days have gone
by?

I can only say that I saw UFOs over Santiago [de Chile]. No one
told me about it. I saw them and I know what they were like.
That's really good [sic]. In any event, it isn't the first time
that I've seen something strange. A few years ago, while
vacationing in Puc=F3n, we saw something odd. A light that got in
front of us and vanished in a matter of seconds.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D
Translation (C) 2003. Scott Corrales, Institute of Hispanic Ufology.














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   Apr > Apr 3

               Re: Strange Sightings Over Washington Beltway -

From: David Thomson <dave@volantis.org>
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 18:16:21 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 19:52:05 -0500
Subject: Re: Strange Sightings Over Washington Beltway -


 >From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 12:05:04 -0500
 >Subject: Strange Sightings Over Washington Beltway

 >Strange Sightings Within The Washington, D.C. Beltway, March 8, 2003

 >If there are any questions about the observations, do not
 >hesitate to ask.

Hi Ray,

Did the vehicle make any turns? And if so, did the whole vehicle
roll in order to make the turn?

I've seen a similar type of craft back in 1978 near Edwards
Airforce Base.

Can you send a sketch of the vehicles to dave@volantis.org?

Thanks








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              Re: Phoenix Lights Redux [was: Flares Over Basra]

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 13:47:40 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 23:08:48 -0500
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux [was: Flares Over Basra]


 >From: Tom King <tomking2030@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 01:28:56 +0000
 >Subject: Re: Flares Over Basra

<snip>

 >I think the List should know that some people in Phoenix don't
 >want to talk about the truth behind the 10:00 pm videos. Some
 >people have books they're pushing, others sell their rights to
 >video over and over to TLC and other TV media. The amount of
 >money can add up if you have good control over your video and
 >sell it 30 times to the media. Clearly a there is vested
 >interest from some parties involved in these events to profit or
 >promote their items.


Since the Jan 14, 1998 event has been brought up I would like to
point out that I began my analysis of the "Phoenix Lights" by
studying the Jan 14, 1988 lights because there were four videos
that I could use for triangulation (Krysten, Lynn, Riordan and P
- who wishes to remain anonymous).

I visited the houses of all these people, made measurements,
took comparison photos to see geographical features that could
be used to establish sighting lines, studied their cameras, etc.

The triangulation baseline for this event was about 50 miles
wide (from Riordan to P), as I recall. The triangulation clearly
put the lights over 60 miles south southwest of Phoenix.

Maybe they were UFOs over the military desert. But whatever
they were, they were far away.

In the March 13, 1997 case there were also 4 videos, K,L, R and
King, but the baseline was not as long.

The triangulation showed the lights to be far South of Phoenix.

http://brumac.8k.com

Scroll down to Phoenix Lights and see complete analysis of Jan
14 and March 13.







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              Re: Phoenix Lights Redux [was: Flares Over Basra]

From: Mike Fortson <satmike@cox.net>
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 17:59:22 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 23:11:18 -0500
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux [was: Flares Over Basra]


 >From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 07:03:20 -0800
 >Subject: Phoenix Lights Redux [was: Flares Over Basra]

<snip>

 >Remember Trig Johnston? He also saw the same amber lights. His
 >decription is so similar as to be identical, except they were
 >moving horizontally in formation as a unit. As an airline pilot,
 >he could not explain what he was seeing.


Bill,

Trig Johnston saw much more than lights. What he saw changed his
life as well. He told me in his own words something like... " an
instellar craft with and inside area of over a square mile" I
have copies of his reports. I'm sure you do as well.

Cool part of Trig's sighting is it blows MUFON AZ's report by
Richard Motzer out of the water. Motzer claimed no UFO's in
Phoenix past 8:45pm. Trig's was at 10:20 pm from north
Scottsdale, near Cave Creek heading south!

He saw the ship, Bill, not just amber orbs.

I'm not argueing flares or UFO's in the 10:00 videos, because
I'm not sure (can't prove) either way. I'm more disappointed
that the diversion (10:00 videos) took away all the attention
from the 8:00 sightings of massive sized craft. And it worked.
Until USA Today, June 18, 1997, issue, for the first time, the
news broke nationally about the massive UFO's. No one paid
attention to the 8:00 sightings till then. Why? No videos.

I don't think it's fair to Tom King to suggust his change of
opinion was because of a falling out with Jim D. I think Tom's
software and ability to interpret the videos better, make his
theory stronger than anyone else's who's involved in this.

Neither side wins here. Neither side can be proven.

I still say it was a successful diversion, whether it's UFO or
flares.

Mike







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             Re: Phoenix Lights Redux [was: Flares Over Basra -

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 21:12:06 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 23:19:49 -0500
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux [was: Flares Over Basra -


 >From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 06:52:18 -0800
 >Subject: Re: Flares Over Basra

<snip>

 >No matter what I have said there will be those that will
 >persist in their belief that these were flares that we saw on
 >March 13th. Even Tom King keeps forgetting that we saw a
 >"double" light at 9:45 PM (I looked at my watch) and it was
 >the first to reappear at 10:00 PM in the same locaation!

 >BTW, he never looked through his own telescope so he doen't
 >know what I saw. He was certain these lights were not flares
 >until he had a falling out with Jim Diletosso, then he
 >reversed his position. That is what I saw happen.

 >I called the manufacturer of the LU-U2 flares and they
 >confirmed what the USAF said, that they are magnesium flares
 >that burn bright white. Photos of these flares look nothing
 >like the lights we saw.


Hi Bill,

I originally brought this up as a reference to flares, as to how
they appear on television, the evidence of smoke trails and
their very recognizable signature. However I don't have the
expertise about the Pheonix episode to really make an informed
opinion. I'll take some time and update myself.

Best,

Don






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               Re: Strange Sightings Over Washington Beltway -

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 20:36:58 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 23:22:49 -0500
Subject: Re: Strange Sightings Over Washington Beltway -


 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 09:28:44 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Strange Sightings Over Washington Beltway

 >Have you had other magnetic anomalies in recent weeks or
 >months?

Bruce,

Actually, aside from obvious periods of solar storm activity
upon the earth's magnetosphere (they have been substantial),
until this March 8 event, things had been noticeably, even
puzzingly, quiet from the standpoint of very outstanding or
comparatively extreme- low-frequency (ELF) magnetic events
during the occassions I had monitored it in weeks and days
leading up to this incident. I had even commented in song to
Sheila (wife), to the tune of "Long Time Passing", "...Where
have all the magnetic anomalies gone..." because things had been
remarkably quiet. [Oops! That tune dates me, doesn't it?!]

Until this, I hadn't even seen anything deemed worthy of
actually reporting for several years, and it's not that I don't
keep a watchful eye on the sky.

I reported the March 8 observations to Don Berliner, and at his
advice to FUFOR's local investigator, mainly in hopes of
learning if seemingly related reports had come in or that might
later come in to them. I figured if we could locate a local
isochronous observation or two, then maybe a triangulation could
be done in order to at least get a ballpark figure on altitude,
size, speed, etc. So far, no such luck.

I presumed George Filer, Peter Davenport, or others interested,
would hear of it directly or indiredtly from here.

It was the absolutely dead silence of that thing moving so
seemingly close-by that still, well, gives me the 'Heebie
Jeebies'!


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of trifles." --
Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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                      Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Stuart

From: Chaz Stuart <Daydisk2@webtv.net>
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 22:58:15 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 23:25:58 -0500
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Stuart


Hi Folks,

Flares may indeed be visible at a distance of 65 miles under
clear skies in the SW USA, I will not argue that. However, while
I don't have the geometry or mathematical skills to furnish
precise numbers, it seems to me that flares or any other
lights/objects at 65 miles would have to appear close to the
horizon unless they were at a fairly high altitude; much higher
than flares would normally be dropped.

I could easily be wrong, but the lights in the 10 P.M. video
just look too "high in the sky" (or too many degrees above the
horizon) to be at the distance of 65 miles or over the
Eisenhower range as proclaimed by Dr. Bruce and others.

Also, at that considerable distance, it seems, common-sense-
wise, that the lights would appear very close together, almost
as one light unless the flares were dropped at a considerable
distance from one another and at just the right angle to the
percipient which complicates matters further considering the
lights appear in a straight line. The plane dropping the flares
would have to be moving and _descending_ at just the right
velocity to achieve such a horizontal effect. There would be a
considerable time lag between the dropping of the first "flare"
and the last; the first having dropped a ways by the time the
last one was dropped.

I apologize if these points have already been re-hashed to
death previously, and I'm not saying that the 10 P.M. lights
couldn't have been simply flares dropped by an extremely lucky
pilot over Eisenhower. I'm just suggesting that that idea is
somewhat problematic in this layman's humble opinion.

--FWIW,

-Chaz





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   Apr > Apr 4

                        Rods On Iraq War2 TV Footage

From: Colin Stevenson <colin@c2k2.fsworld.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 14:42:26 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 13:36:06 -0500
Subject: Rods On Iraq War2 TV Footage


Hi all

Rods have been seen on the Iraq TV footage.
Hats off to the UFO spotters.

Hastily compiled webpage at:

http://www.colsweb.com/iraqrods.htm

contains pictures.

Origin for material


TheHickmanReport@yahoogroups.com
Friday, April 04, 2003 1:35 AM

Kind Wishes

col






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                     Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Hamilton

From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 06:44:06 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 13:38:57 -0500
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Hamilton


 >From: Mike Fortson <satmike@cox.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 17:59:22 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux [was: Flares Over Basra]

 >>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 07:03:20 -0800
 >>Subject: Phoenix Lights Redux [was: Flares Over Basra]

 ><snip>

 >>Remember Trig Johnston? He also saw the same amber lights. His
 >>decription is so similar as to be identical, except they were
 >>moving horizontally in formation as a unit. As an airline pilot,
 >>he could not explain what he was seeing.

 >Bill,

 >Trig Johnston saw much more than lights. What he saw changed his
 >life as well. He told me in his own words something like... " an
 >instellar craft with and inside area of over a square mile" I
 >have copies of his reports. I'm sure you do as well.

 >Cool part of Trig's sighting is it blows MUFON AZ's report by
 >Richard Motzer out of the water. Motzer claimed no UFO's in
 >Phoenix past 8:45pm. Trig's was at 10:20 pm from north
 >Scottsdale, near Cave Creek heading south!

Yes, Mike and that was not the only sightings after 8:45 PM that
night. Another triangle was seen near Thunderbird Rd. around
10:30 PM.

Significantly, one woman saw a formation of these amber orbs
(flares) at around 1 AM on March 14th moving in formation. One
broke the formation and rose vertically. Strange for a flare!

I think Trig saw these orbs in their docking positions on a
large craft. Remember these were seen "docked" in the triangle.
They can separate and fly off, move in formation, or hover and
look almost like flares except they do not glare. Even more,
when close to the ground they do not reflect light from the
ground. The physics in this would be most interesting.

 >He saw the ship, Bill, not just amber orbs.

Yes, I know. Sometimes they are docked and sometimes detached
and move independently.

 >I'm not argueing flares or UFO's in the 10:00 videos, because
 >I'm not sure (can't prove) either way. I'm more disappointed
 >that the diversion (10:00 videos) took away all the attention
 >from the 8:00 sightings of massive sized craft. And it worked.
 >Until USA Today, June 18, 1997, issue, for the first time, the
 >news broke nationally about the massive UFO's. No one paid
 >attention to the 8:00 sightings till then. Why? No videos.

It is too bad. The low-level moving craft would have been
interesting if someone had video-taped them, but the "shock and
awe", to borrow a phrase, of seeing these objects so fascinated
witnesses that I still do not have knowledge of anyone getting
it on video.

 >I don't think it's fair to Tom King to suggust his change of
 >opinion was because of a falling out with Jim D. I think Tom's
 >software and ability to interpret the videos better, make his
 >theory stronger than anyone else's who's involved in this.

Yes, but there was nothing wrong with Jim's analysis except it
was tremendously misunderstood and few know he did another type
of analysis on 50 frames. He measured the luminosity parameter
on the histogram for variation over 50 frames and the histogram
was virtually flat. Similar analysis on flares show ragged peaks
and valleys because flares are fires that burn with uneven
luminosity over time. As I view a flare through powerful
binoculars even 50 miles away, I can see the "flicker factor".
The orbs exhibit no flicker, but they do have vibrant striations
that continually move on different vectors. Similar orbs are
seen here in the California desert from time to time, but are
not on military ranges.

I have a video showing the same.


-Bill H







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                     Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 10:12:23 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 13:40:53 -0500
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Maccabee


 >From: Chaz Stuart <Daydisk2@webtv.net>
 >Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 22:58:15 -0500 (EST)
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux


 >Hi Folks,

 >Flares may indeed be visible at a distance of 65 miles under
 >clear skies in the SW USA, I will not argue that. However, while
 >I don't have the geometry or mathematical skills to furnish.
 >precise numbers, it seems to me that flares or any other
 >lights/objects at 65 miles would have to appear close to the
 >horizon unless they were at a fairly high altitude; much higher
 >than flares would normally be dropped.

 >I could easily be wrong, but the lights in the 10 P.M. video
 >just look too "high in the sky" (or too many degrees above the
 >horizon) to be at the distance of 65 miles or over the
 >Eisenhower range as proclaimed by Dr. Bruce and others.

 >Also, at that considerable distance, it seems, common-sense-
 >wise, that the lights would appear very close together, almost
 >as one light unless the flares were dropped at a considerable
 >distance from one another and at just the right angle to the
 >percipient which complicates matters further considering the
 >lights appear in a straight line. The plane dropping the flares
 >would have to be moving and _descending_ at just the right
 >velocity to achieve such a horizontal effect. There would be a
 >considerable time lag between the dropping of the first "flare"
 >and the last; the first having dropped a ways by the time the
 >last one was dropped.

 >I apologize if these points have already been re-hashed to
 >death previously, and I'm not saying that the 10 P.M. lights
 >couldn't have been simply flares dropped by an extremely lucky
 >pilot over Eisenhower. I'm just suggesting that that idea is
 >somewhat problematic in this layman's humble opinion.

These questions have have discussed and answers proposed
in my Phoenix Lights paper at http://brumac.8k.com

Scroll down opening page

I argue that the planes were flying high and dropping the flares
to get rid of them, not to light up the ground, as they headed
toward "home" in Tucson after a flare drop exercise at the Barry
Goldwater training range.







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                          Re: Phoenix Lights Redux

From: Tom King <Tomking2030@Hotmail.Com>
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 15:14:19 +0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 13:44:45 -0500
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux


 >From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 06:52:18 -0800
 >Subject: Re: Flares Over Basra

 >>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 19:37:31 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: Flares Over Basra

 >>Folks there are many variables at play here, such as nature of
 >>deployment plus atmospheric conditions plus camera angle and
 >>proximity. The thing which struck me the most was the evident
 >>smoke from the Basra flare illumination. But I could envision
 >>that flares deployed at a higher elevation and a camera situated
 >>at a far greater distance, such as in the case of Arizona, you
 >>would have something that looked similar.

 >>Why would you deploy multible flares at a high altitude. Think
 >>what they are for.

 >>In any event they are typically preset [before take-off] to
 >>ignite at about 500 to 1,500 feet above the ground. Above that
 >>they are pretty much useless for ground illumination. However
 >>they can be released at high altitude and ignite at the altitude
 >>set for best illumination depending on circumstances. The only
 >>reason to ignite at high altitude is to mark an area that will
 >>remain for some minutes as it descends. But setting off a dozen
 >>of them say to mark a location would only confuse the issue.

 >>The LUU 2b/b is one of the most commonly used military flares.
 >>Go here:

 >>http://www.tpub.com/aviord321/51.htm

 >>for a brief description of the flare's size, and function, etc.

 >No matter what I have said there will be those that will persist
 >in their belief that these were flares that we saw on March
 >13th. Even Tom King keeps forgetting that we saw a "double"
 >light at 9:45 PM (I looked at my watch) and it was the first to
 >reappear at 10:00 PM in the same locaation!

Because there are two orange lights close together does not rule
out flares.

 >BTW, he never looked through his own telescope so he doen't know
 >what I saw.

True I was busy videotaping the event, you would of two if you
bothered to charge your batteries earlier.

 >He was certain these lights were not flares until he
 >had a falling out with Jim Diletosso, then he reversed his
 >position. That is what I saw happen.

Bill, you're implying that because Village Labs and I had a
disagreement that I decided to change my opinion because of
that? No I had a falling out with them for a variety of reasons.
One being they can't properly analyze the videos from that
night.

Tom King







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                       Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - King

From: Tom King <Tomking2030@Hotmail.Com>
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 16:10:22 +0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 13:47:41 -0500
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - King


 >From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 07:03:20 -0800
 >Subject: Phoenix Lights Redux [was: Flares Over Basra]

 >>From: Mike Fortson <satmike@cox.net>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 15:39:01 -0700
 >>Subject: Re: Flares Over Basra


 >>The point I was trying to make, is the name given to the March
 >>13, 1997, Phoenix Lights, is wrong. Those lights on the five
 >>10:00 p.m. MST videos were not over Phoenix. Or even in Maricopa
 >>county. But the media deemed the deceptive title, and it stuck.

I remember Jim was the one who coined the events "Phoenix Lights".

 >>And no one involved in the investigation or witnesses have ever
 >>claimed "flares" when discussing the 8:16 p.m. MST, Pauldon,
 >>Az., sightings through what we saw in Chandler at 8:30 p.m. MST.

 >That is correct Mike. However, it seems like there are still
 >many unaware that these amber lights at 10 were seen elsewhere
 >at different times of the night at different locations, and some
 >even seen rising vertically! Also, the big triangle was seen
 >with amber lights that could detach.

 >>And as you well know, we saw much more than lights.

 >Yes, you and others reported seeing a structure. You could see
 >it because part of that structure passed in front of the moon.
 >Others could see structure because of the reflection of ground
 >light and because the structure passed over at low altitude.

 >>I always thought it was Capt. Eileen Beinz who broke the story
 >>of flares. It was reported in the Arizona Republic. Her
 >>"solution" to the apparent "problem" was front page news.

 >Only after I asked her to look and she contacted Davis-Monthan
 >who, it turns out, had just released the story in the Tucson
 >newspaper, but the Tucson paper was clear that the A-10s
 >returned to base by 8:30 PM, the LU-U2 flares were white and so
 >they concluded that what you saw were flares. It was Eileen who
 >appended this explanation to the 10 PM videos.

 >>The problem with her story was altitude. I think the final
 >>altitude of the flares, to make it seen in Phoenix, were near
 >>16,000'. I asked her, on air during a live radio call-in, was
 >>that altitude the drop altitude? Or the ignition altitude? She
 >>went totally quite and KTAR went to commercial.

 >They would have to be that high to be seen over the mountains,
 >but there were some below the mountains to the far right, but
 >since everyone is convinced they were above the mountains I am
 >just traveling around on a carousel so I just say let people
 >believe what they want to believe, but they are not taking in
 >the whole picture and including all of the events of that night.


  I showed you and Mike Tanner how _all_ 5 videos from that night
were shot at the same time. The triangulation from all of the
videos puts them far behind the Estrella Mountains. ASU did
their own GPS positioning and confirmed this. A simple spilt
screen of the videos shows how we all taped the same amber
lights at the same time. Even Bruce Macabees own independent
study confirms all of the above.

When showing the split screen to you guys the reaction is the
look of a deer in headlights, you guys refuse to discuss it.
Refuse to publicly debate how off your conclusions are about the
10:00 pm videos. Instead you tell a story that simply didn't
happen and you point towards inconsistencies in media and
military reports instead of dealing with the basic facts.

According to Bill Hamilton and Village Labs there are two sets
of 9 amber lights that night. One to the south end of the
Estrellas (9:45) that disappeared and then it reappeared to the
north(10:00).

Here is a map of what they think happened that night.

http://www.ufovideo.com/march13/vill.jpg

That map certainly doesn't reflect any solid facts. I would have
seen another string of lights west of me and I didn't neither
did anyone else. The poor analysis of Mike Crystens video
placing it below the mountain is one reason behind your theory.

Bill explain this?

How is it when the lights go out in Mike Crysten's video, Terry
Proctor is 15 miles north of him still taping the lights? If
they are taping the same group of lights at the same time then
this isn't possible. The lights dropped behind mountains from
Mike Crystens vantage point but Proctor at a higher elevation
can still see them. Or are you going to say were there 3 sets of
amber lights? Fill us in on how this is possible with your
theory.

How can all of the videos be split screened accurately if were
not taping the same event? An event you guys say happened at two
different times and at two different locations.

Here is a map from MUFON of the real triangulation.

http://www.ufovideo.com/march13/MUFONAZmap.jpg

You can point to all the newspaper reports and other sightings
that night until your blue in the face. It won't explain away
the triangulation, GPS, or spilt screen video. The 10:00 pm
event can't be called UFOs because flares can't absolutely be
ruled out.

I had the falling out with Village Labs because I didn't like
how they comparmentalized the case and were doing a shoddy
investigation to boot. I think I did the right thing.


Tom King








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                          Secrecy News -- 04/04/03

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 12:30:44 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 13:50:14 -0500
Subject: Secrecy News -- 04/04/03


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2003, Issue No. 29
April 4, 2003


**      REJIGGERING THE FBI
**      PATRIOT ACT OVERSIGHT
**      CLASSIFICATION MARKING
**      STATE SECRECY
**      LEAKS AND TRAPS


REJIGGERING THE FBI

The pace of institutional and technological change at the
Federal Bureau of Investigation is accelerating, with results
and consequences yet to be determined.

"As part of an ongoing technology upgrade, the FBI is building a
massive database to store case information, leads, intelligence
and even newspaper and magazine articles related to terrorism,"
reports Shane Harris in "FBI designing vast terrorism database,"
Government Executive, April 3:

http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/0403/040303h1.htm

"With a new computer network, automated investigative tools, and
more channels for sharing information, the FBI hopes to finally
know what it knows," writes Jean Kumagai in "Mission
Impossible?", IEEE Spectrum, April 2003:

http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/WEBONLY/publicfeature/apr03/fbi.html

"As part of its on-going reorganization efforts, the FBI has put
in place for the first time a formal structure to prioritize
intelligence exploitation and to establish strategic plans for
intelligence collection, analysis and dissemination," according
to an April 3 FBI press release.

The Bureau also hired NSA SIGINT Director Maureen A. Baginski to
serve as its new Executive Assistant Director for Intelligence.

See "FBI Creates Structure to Support Intelligence Mission":

http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2003/04/fbi040303.html


PATRIOT ACT OVERSIGHT

The House Judiciary Committee wrote to Attorney General Ashcroft
this week to request detailed information on implementation of
the USA Patriot Act, submitting 38 multi-part questions on
domestic surveillance, the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance
Act, detention of suspected terrorists, and related topics.

A copy of the 18 page April 1 letter from Judiciary Committee
Chairman F. James Sensenbrenner, Jr. and Ranking Member John
Conyers, Jr. is posted here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2003_cr/patriot040103.html


CLASSIFICATION MARKING

The simple notion of official secrecy branches out in practice
into a dense jungle of classification markings and access
controls, ranging from "For Official Use Only" to "Cosmic Top
Secret" to "SIOP Extremely Sensitive Information" and "Eyes
Only."

These and many other such terms are defined and placed in
context in two Defense Department classification marking
manuals.

"DMS GENSER Message Security Classifications, Categories, and
Marking Phrase Requirments," Defense Information Systems Agency,
March 1999:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/dod/genser.pdf

"NIMA Guide to Marking Classified Documents," National Imagery
and Mapping Agency, October 4, 2001:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/dod/nimaguide.pdf


STATE SECRECY

Nearly half of all states "are closing meetings, sealing records
and restricting the flow of information to the public, all in
the name of homeland security."  See "States put a leash on
information" by Mimi Hall, USA Today, April 3:

http://www.usatoday.com/usatonline/20030403/5028928s.htm


LEAKS AND TRAPS

At his confirmation hearing last October, CIA General Counsel
Scott W. Muller was asked how he would propose to handle the
"vexatious problem" of leaks of classified intelligence
information.

One solution, he suggested briefly and tantalizingly, would be
to "set a trap" for the leaker.

"I would first analyze what are the legal authorities and, most
importantly, I would try to find a way -- pro-actively rather
than reactively -- to, whether it's set a trap, or set up a
system where I could actually come up with a way to do it.  It's
a very difficult problem."

The transcript of Mr. Muller's October 2002 confirmation hearing
was published last week and is posted here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2002_hr/100902muller.html


_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
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OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

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_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood@fas.org
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                    SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 13:56:28 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 13:56:28 -0500
Subject: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line


Last Saturday's 'Strange Days... Indeed' interview with
Ray Stanford is available for your listening please at:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/sdi/program/sdi2003.html

in program 234's listing.

Ray revealed some interesting new research info.....


ebk






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                            Straight And Crooked

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 18:16:04 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 18:16:04 -0500
Subject: Straight And Crooked


Source: The Star - Malaysia

http://thestar.com.my/lifestyle/story.asp?file=/2003/3/31/features/wind3103&sec=
features

Monday, March 31, 2003

Straight And Crooked

In popular Chinese ghost stories, vampires would hop along
straight lines. These vampires may hop to turn, but would have
to travel in straight lines. This reflects the Chinese cultural
and feng shui belief that evil spirits and forces travel in
straight lines. To block them, a path, especially to a house,
should be crooked and winding. A bridge across a river should
not be straight but be in a zig-zag pattern. Alternatively, the
straight path must be fringed with protective devices. Western
geomancers also believe that "spirit" entities travel along
straight lines, known as leys in Europe.

In the early 1920s, Alfred Watkins, a Hertfordshire man,
realised that the ancient sites in the English countryside could
be aligned along lines. The sites include stone circles
(megaliths), standing stones (menhirs), old crosses, barrows,
tumuli, mottes and baileys, moats, hill forts and camps,
earthworks, holy wells, old churches and cathedrals, abbeys and
other religious buildings. Other features which would help
confirm the alignment would be straight roads, cross-roads, mark
stones, old buildings, solitary and prominent hills, skyline
notches, hollows or green lanes or other traces of disused
roads. Watkins called these alignments "leys". Various people
have postulated that the ley lines are linked to ancient
folklore of ancient sites and that some form of energy flows
through the leys.

  Janet Bord and Colin Bord, who write books on the paranormal,
note that there are links between appearance of spirit beings,
like the black dog and Owlman sightings, and ley lines. Black
dogs also appeared at ley points, like old churches. Before the
churches were built, the areas were already sacred and there
might have been stone circles or burial mounds. The black-dog
ghosts seem to patrol set routes, giving rise to the suspicion
that the routes could be ley lines. Bord and Bord found
alignments with four points in 31/2, 61/2 in 16km to five points
in eight km for some of the black-dog areas. Leys sometimes pass
through gaps in hedges. These gaps are said to be necessary to
accommodate footpaths. However, the significance may be that the
hedge area crossed by the ley line may be adversely affected by
negative energies from underground water under the ley and
automatically is an area where the hedge could not grow well and
thus forms a gap.

Earth currents in leys would ebb and flow. The spirit beings
would appear only at times when the conditions of the current
are optimal for them. Bord and Bord, speaking of the (spirit)
black dog's ley associations, stated: "According to feng-shui,
the correct inter-relationship of straight and curved lines was
vital if the favourable influences were to be maintained."

Investigators have noted that, all over the world, sightings of
spirit beings, like ghost dogs, ghost birds, Big Hairy Men
(BHM), are often accompanied by sightings of Unidentified Flying
Objects (UFOs) at the same time in the same area.

Paranormal writer Bruce L. Cathie's research into the patterns
of movements of those mysterious things known as UFOs did show
that UFOs also travel along straight lines. Despite years of
research since World War 2, UFOs are still not understood by
modern scientists. There is exciting evidence that there is a
world grid of criss-crossing intricate network of energy lines
along which UFOs travelled!

Bruce was a DC3 co-pilot on a flight from Auckland to
Paraparaumu in New Zealand in 1956. It was about 6pm and the
conditions were calm with unlimited visibility and the plane was
just south of Waverley at a height of 7,000 feet when Bruce saw
an object at an extremely high altitude in the east. It
travelled east to west across the track of the flight and
disappeared with a flash of light at about 10,000 feet in the
vicinity of D'Urville Island. It appeared to travel across New
Zealand in the vicinity or slightly to the north of Cook Strait.

It was so large that two streaks, similar to vapour trails,
extended from either side of the pale green disc. When halfway
across the Strait, a small object detached itself from the
parent body and dropped, not along a natural curved trajectory
with the parent body, but vertically at great speed until it
disappeared. Bruce said that this indicated the object seemed to
be controlled. Later calculations indicated the disc was rather
large, of some 500m in diameter. A Nelson newspaper reported the
following day that there was an explosion at high altitude north
of the city and the shock waves broke windows in some
glasshouses.

On March 12, 1965, Bruce had another sighting. He was
undertaking a positioning flight from Whenuapai, Auckland's main
airport at that time, to Kaitaia at 11am. There was no passenger
except an officer from the operations department and the weather
was clear. On climbing out of the Whenuapai area, the plane
crossed the southern end of Kaipara Harbour, just north of
Helenville. The tide was out and the waters over the mudflats
and estuaries were shallow.

He was about one-third the way across the harbour when he saw a
grey-white whale-like object on the harbour bottom. This "whale"
was definitely a metal fish and was perfectly streamlined and
symmetrical, estimated to be 30m long and 5m wide. The navy
confirmed there was no submarine there.

In April 1965, Bruce contacted a UFO organisation called New
Zealand Scientific and Space Research, which had data collected
over a period of 12 years. The materials included UFO sightings
reported for March 26 1965. Most reports gave the time as 9.45
p.m., and the maximum variation in the times of the sightings
was 15 minutes. The analysis of the sightings showed that the
UFO track began 70 nautical miles north of New Plymouth at an
altitude of 10,000m. The track passed over just west of Mount
Egmont and finished at D'Urville Island at about 3,000m.

The location of his UFO sighting on March 12 1965, Bruce
realised, was in line with what he saw on March 26. The report
also showed that, on March 2 1965, some fishermen just north of
the coast of New Plymouth saw a large object plunge into the sea
and disappear. They thought it was an aircraft and reported to
the authorities. But no aircraft and personnel were missing.

It also occurred to Bruce that his 1956 UFO sighting was along a
track at 90 degrees to the March 26 1965 track. Both objects
were travelling at 90 degrees to each other and disappeared in
the same illuminating flash at D'Urville Island.

The UFO files noted that a Frenchman, Aime Michel, was studying
UFOs for a number of years and had found small sections of
tracklines in various parts of Europe. Saucers were hovering at
various points along the tracks. Michel observed that the
average distance between the points were 54.43km.

A great number of sightings occurred around the area of
Blenheim, which had UFO activity even before the coming of the
aircraft. When the March 26 1965 trackline was extended, it cut
a 90 degree line from Blenheim. The distance of this point from
Kaipara was 300 nautical miles (one nautical mile equals one
minute of an arc of the circle of the globe). Michel's average
of 54.43km equals roughly 30 nautical miles.

Thus, it is possible that the UFO sightings were along a grid
with lines running north-south perpendicular to lines running
east-west, spaced 30 minutes of an arc apart (30 nautical miles
along north-south lines and 24 nautical miles along east-west
lines). When other sightings were plotted against this grid of
30 nautical miles, the result was spectacular, as a great number
of UFO sightings could be fitted into this grid. Bruce found 16
stationary and 17 moving UFOs plotted on grid intersections and
tracklines.

 From further research, Bruce concluded that this grid could be
further divided into smaller patterns of lines 7.5 minutes apart
(about 7.5 nautical miles or 13.6 km). The agreement between
Aime Michel's observations in Europe of a grid of 54.43
kilometres and Bruce's New Zealand's grid of 30 minutes of an
arc indicated a global grid along which UFOs travel.

Bord and Bord noted several reports that UFOs are often found
around electro-magnetic installations like microwave towers,
high-tension power lines, nuclear power installations, hydro-
electric dams, bodies of water, missile silos and railway
tracks. The famous UFO Foo fighters appeared after the event of
high flying jet planes. UFOs were also found to be active during
full moons, foggy nights and natural electro-magnetic
disturbances, like electric storms. Some have postulated that
electric disturbances create these UFOs and so-called spirits.
Being only energy masses, these UFOs and spirits would be
attracted to travel along energy lines which are normally
straight. This indicates that the earth's terrain has energy
lines, as postulated by feng shui and Western geomancers.

So feng shui has advocated that a path should be crooked and
winding, with the objective of preventing a malevolent spirit
force from travelling down it. Otherwise, a straight path should
have a spirit screen placed across it, or be guarded on both
sides by spirit guardian sentinels. All these feng shui measures
will not only keep the evil spirits away, but they will also
enhance the beauty of the landscape!






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                     Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Hamilton

From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 11:04:27 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 20:47:49 -0500
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Hamilton


 >From: Tom King <Tomking2030@Hotmail.Com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 16:10:22 +0000
 >Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux

 >>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 07:03:20 -0800
 >>Subject: Phoenix Lights Redux [was: Flares Over Basra]

 >>>From: Mike Fortson <satmike@cox.net>
 >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 15:39:01 -0700
 >>>Subject: Re: Flares Over Basra

 >>>The point I was trying to make, is the name given to the March
 >>>13, 1997, Phoenix Lights, is wrong. Those lights on the five
 >>>10:00 p.m. MST videos were not over Phoenix. Or even in Maricopa
 >>>county. But the media deemed the deceptive title, and it stuck.

 >I remember Jim was the one who coined the events "Phoenix Lights".

Yep, not a bad name for it. All sightings involved lights.

 >>>And no one involved in the investigation or witnesses have ever
 >>>claimed "flares" when discussing the 8:16 p.m. MST, Pauldon,
 >>>Az., sightings through what we saw in Chandler at 8:30 p.m. MST.

 >>That is correct Mike. However, it seems like there are still
 >>many unaware that these amber lights at 10 were seen elsewhere
 >>at different times of the night at different locations, and some
 >>even seen rising vertically! Also, the big triangle was seen
 >>with amber lights that could detach.

 >>>And as you well know, we saw much more than lights.

 >>Yes, you and others reported seeing a structure. You could see
 >>it because part of that structure passed in front of the moon.
 >>Others could see structure because of the reflection of ground
 >>light and because the structure passed over at low altitude.

 >>>I always thought it was Capt. Eileen Beinz who broke the story
 >>>of flares. It was reported in the Arizona Republic. Her
 >>>"solution" to the apparent "problem" was front page news.

 >>Only after I asked her to look and she contacted Davis-Monthan
 >>who, it turns out, had just released the story in the Tucson
 >>newspaper, but the Tucson paper was clear that the A-10s
 >>returned to base by 8:30 PM, the LU-U2 flares were white and so
 >>they concluded that what you saw were flares. It was Eileen who
 >>appended this explanation to the 10 PM videos.

 >>>The problem with her story was altitude. I think the final
 >>>altitude of the flares, to make it seen in Phoenix, were near
 >>>16,000'. I asked her, on air during a live radio call-in, was
 >>>that altitude the drop altitude? Or the ignition altitude? She
 >>>went totally quite and KTAR went to commercial.

 >>They would have to be that high to be seen over the mountains,
 >>but there were some below the mountains to the far right, but
 >>since everyone is convinced they were above the mountains I am
 >>just traveling around on a carousel so I just say let people
 >>believe what they want to believe, but they are not taking in
 >>the whole picture and including all of the events of that night.

 >I showed you and Mike Tanner how _all_ 5 videos from that night
 >were shot at the same time. The triangulation from all of the
 >videos puts them far behind the Estrella Mountains. ASU did
 >their own GPS positioning and confirmed this. A simple spilt
 >screen of the videos shows how we all taped the same amber
 >lights at the same time. Even Bruce Macabees own independent
 >study confirms all of the above.

I don't doubt it though you originally reached a different
conclusion.

 >When showing the split screen to you guys the reaction is the
 >look of a deer in headlights, you guys refuse to discuss it.
 >Refuse to publicly debate how off your conclusions are about the
 >10:00 pm videos. Instead you tell a story that simply didn't
 >happen and you point towards inconsistencies in media and
 >military reports instead of dealing with the basic facts.

 >According to Bill Hamilton and Village Labs there are two sets
 >of 9 amber lights that night. One to the south end of the
 >Estrellas (9:45) that disappeared and then it reappeared to the
 >north(10:00).

What? I never heard anyone say this! We saw a double light at
9:45 PM - you and I did, Tom, and that is why you raced
downstairs at Steve's house to get your videocam and I raced
down too. When we went back to the balcony, the double light had
gone out, then around 10 PM, it re-lit in the same location.
There were other witnesses who saw this.

 >Here is a map of what they think happened that night.

 >http://www.ufovideo.com/march13/vill.jpg

 >That map certainly doesn't reflect any solid facts. I would have
 >seen another string of lights west of me and I didn't neither
 >did anyone else. The poor analysis of Mike Crystens video
 >placing it below the mountain is one reason behind your theory.

I guess you don't understand my theory then.

 >Bill explain this?

 >How is it when the lights go out in Mike Crysten's video, Terry
 >Proctor is 15 miles north of him still taping the lights? If
 >they are taping the same group of lights at the same time then
 >this isn't possible. The lights dropped behind mountains from
 >Mike Crystens vantage point but Proctor at a higher elevation
 >can still see them. Or are you going to say were there 3 sets of
 >amber lights? Fill us in on how this is possible with your
 >theory.

I say the lights to the far right were not behind the mountain.
Do a pixel count and proportional analysis. You don't seem to
remember that the lights we saw (not all 9) were dropping off to
the right so that the remaining 3 were so low that they were
behind a chimney.

 >How can all of the videos be split screened accurately if were
 >not taping the same event? An event you guys say happened at two
 >different times and at two different locations.

I believe we were taping the same event. I never really thought
otherwise, but at one time you did.

 >Here is a map from MUFON of the real triangulation.

 >http://www.ufovideo.com/march13/MUFONAZmap.jpg

 >You can point to all the newspaper reports and other sightings
 >that night until your blue in the face. It won't explain away
 >the triangulation, GPS, or spilt screen video. The 10:00 pm
 >event can't be called UFOs because flares can't absolutely be
 >ruled out.

I can rule them out based on what I saw and matched to what
others have seen.

- Bill






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                     Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Hamilton

From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 11:06:16 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 20:50:31 -0500
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Hamilton


 >From: Tom King <Tomking2030@Hotmail.Com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 15:14:19 +0000
 >Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux

 >>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 06:52:18 -0800
 >>Subject: Re: Flares Over Basra

 >>No matter what I have said there will be those that will persist
 >>in their belief that these were flares that we saw on March
 >>13th. Even Tom King keeps forgetting that we saw a "double"
 >>light at 9:45 PM (I looked at my watch) and it was the first to
 >>reappear at 10:00 PM in the same locaation!

 >Because there are two orange lights close together does not rule
 >out flares.

No, but the fact they re-lit seems to rule out flares.

 >>BTW, he never looked through his own telescope so he doen't know
 >>what I saw.

 >True I was busy videotaping the event, you would of too if you
 >bothered to charge your batteries earlier.

My battery was depleted - you know that - I had charged it but
it had run its course.

 >>He was certain these lights were not flares until he
 >>had a falling out with Jim Diletosso, then he reversed his
 >>position. That is what I saw happen.

 >Bill, you're implying that because Village Labs and I had a
 >disagreement that I decided to change my opinion because of
 >that? No I had a falling out with them for a variety of reasons.
 >One being they can't properly analyze the videos from that
 >night.

I disagree.

Bill







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                     Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Hamilton

From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 11:12:31 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 20:52:23 -0500
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Hamilton


 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 10:12:23 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux

 >>From: Chaz Stuart <Daydisk2@webtv.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 22:58:15 -0500 (EST)
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux

 >>Flares may indeed be visible at a distance of 65 miles under
 >>clear skies in the SW USA, I will not argue that. However, while
 >>I don't have the geometry or mathematical skills to furnish.
 >>precise numbers, it seems to me that flares or any other
 >>lights/objects at 65 miles would have to appear close to the
 >>horizon unless they were at a fairly high altitude; much higher
 >>than flares would normally be dropped.

 >>I could easily be wrong, but the lights in the 10 P.M. video
 >>just look too "high in the sky" (or too many degrees above the
 >>horizon) to be at the distance of 65 miles or over the
 >>Eisenhower range as proclaimed by Dr. Bruce and others.

 >>Also, at that considerable distance, it seems, common-sense-
 >>wise, that the lights would appear very close together, almost
 >>as one light unless the flares were dropped at a considerable
 >>distance from one another and at just the right angle to the
 >>percipient which complicates matters further considering the
 >>lights appear in a straight line. The plane dropping the flares
 >>would have to be moving and _descending_ at just the right
 >>velocity to achieve such a horizontal effect. There would be a
 >>considerable time lag between the dropping of the first "flare"
 >>and the last; the first having dropped a ways by the time the
 >>last one was dropped.

 >>I apologize if these points have already been re-hashed to
 >>death previously, and I'm not saying that the 10 P.M. lights
 >>couldn't have been simply flares dropped by an extremely lucky
 >>pilot over Eisenhower. I'm just suggesting that that idea is
 >>somewhat problematic in this layman's humble opinion.

 >These questions have have discussed and answers proposed
 >in my Phoenix Lights paper at http://brumac.8k.com

 >Scroll down opening page

 >I argue that the planes were flying high and dropping the flares
 >to get rid of them, not to light up the ground, as they headed
 >toward "home" in Tucson after a flare drop exercise at the Barry
 >Goldwater training range.

The one flaw in this argument Bruce is that the planes all
returned to the ground by 8:30 PM according to the PRO at Davis-
Monthan AFB. Later the Arizona Republic says the planes took off
at 8:17 and returned at 10:30 PM. If returning by 10:30 PM and
ejecting flares while heading home, then they could not be near
the Ajo location you have determined because at 10:00 PM they
would still be close to the North Tac range and flying at low
altitude which is what A-10s do best as they are tank busters.
If they returned at 8:30 PM, then it is out of the question.

-Bill H






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                     Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 16:15:43 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 20:56:26 -0500
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Stanford


If any of the many photographers during the Phoenix event(s) had
simply placed even a 'cheepie' type diffraction grating (such as
one can buy for a pittance from Edmund Scientific) properly over
a non-telephoto lens while properly positioning even one of the
'Phoenix Lights' in the viewfinder for photography, all this
discussion and argument might not be necessary.

Whatever their origin, those lights were sufficiently bright to
provide a film-recordable spectrum that could have been quite
diagnostic of the light source.

It's time Ufology got down to the business of doing some
physical science instead of just hounding Big Brother to spill
out allegedly long-hidden 'truths'.

Just one highly exotic spectrum from a UFO might say more to
establishment science than anything to date.  Let's not just
preach to the choir!

So, let's get going, guys and gals.

If you need any instructions as to how to best photograph a UFO
spectrum in a readable way, let me know and I will describe a
procedure that is pretty simple.  I said, "...in a readable
way", because there are of lots of ways to photograph spectra
that do not provide maximum data. If a UFO comes your way, be
sure to do things with maximum competence and care, please.


Happy Spectrophotography,

Ray Stanford

"You know my method.  It is founded upon the observance of trifles." --
Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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             Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 19:33:19 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 20:58:48 -0500
Subject: Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line - Balaskas


 >Last Saturday's 'Strange Days... Indeed' interview with
 >Ray Stanford is available for your listening pleasure at:

 >http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/sdi/program/sdi2003.html

 >in program 234's listing.

 >Ray revealed some interesting new research info.....

Hi everyone!

A few years ago while at the Toronto Central Reference Library I
read a few pages of Ray Stanford's very well researched book,
'Socorro 'Saucer' in a Pentagon Pantry' which is all about the
famous 1966 UFO landing/occupant case. I was surprised to learn
that actual physical evidence - metallic residue - was found on
the rocks that the UFO landed on!

This time while listening to Ray on Errol's 'SDI' radio program
last Saturday night, I was again amazed to hear about some other
very fascinating observations he has made. If Ray's findings as
he interprets them are correct, then we have some very
compelling evidence that UFOs are real and extraterrestrial in
origin. Although Ray has decided to make details of his findings
public sometime soon, I encourage everyone to hear Ray talk
about some of these exciting findings which he has already
shared with 'SDI' listeners.


Nick Balaskas






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                  Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Aldrich-Halfin

From: Joyce Aldrich-Halfin <solar_wind@rogers.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 22:48:47 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 06:38:29 -0500
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Aldrich-Halfin


 >From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 16:15:43 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux

<snip>

 >It's time Ufology got down to the business of doing some
 >physical science instead of just hounding Big Brother to spill
 >out allegedly long-hidden 'truths'.

 >Just one highly exotic spectrum from a UFO might say more to
 >establishment science than anything to date.  Let's not just
 >preach to the choir!

 >So, let's get going, guys and gals.

 >If you need any instructions as to how to best photograph a UFO
 >spectrum in a readable way, let me know and I will describe a
 >procedure that is pretty simple.  I said, "...in a readable
 >way", because there are of lots of ways to photograph spectra
 >that do not provide maximum data. If a UFO comes your way, be
 >sure to do things with maximum competence and care, please.


Hear! Hear! I agree with what Ray said on last Saturday's SDI
show, when he mentioned that it doesn't really matter whether or
not the government is hiding something. If they're hiding it,
then they're not about to show us, and, if they're not, then
it's a non-issue. Let's just get on with something the serious
scientific community understands, which is, the scientific
method...and we don't need an ongoing discussion about that,
now, either.

This should make Errol's job a lot easier, too, if we just wait
for some hard-core info to come through instead of the endless
prattle that often goes nowhere.

Armchair Ufology is easy. Going out into the field is an
entirely different scenario, though, and one that needs special
care and preparation. I, personally, am a mere experiencer with
no interest in looking for the smoking gun, but I do really
appreciate it when research is backed by an honest attempt at
gathering and verifying evidence or information.

Perhaps Ray would be willing to recommend a list of items that
the serious UFO researcher should never leave home without, and
where to get it or make it or whatever. That would be a valuable
legacy, indeed.

Thank you, Ray!

Joyce Aldrich-Halfin







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               Re: Strange Sightings Over Washington Beltway -

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 23:25:41 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 06:41:32 -0500
Subject: Re: Strange Sightings Over Washington Beltway -


 >From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 20:36:58 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Strange Sightings Over Washington Beltway

 >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 09:28:44 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Strange Sightings Over Washington Beltway

 >>Have you had other magnetic anomalies in recent weeks or
 >>months?

 >Actually, aside from obvious periods of solar storm activity
 >upon the earth's magnetosphere (they have been substantial),
 >until this March 8 event, things had been noticeably, even
 >puzzingly, quiet from the standpoint of very outstanding or
 >comparatively extreme- low-frequency (ELF) magnetic events
 >during the occassions I had monitored it in weeks and days
 >leading up to this incident. I had even commented in song to
 >Sheila (wife), to the tune of "Long Time Passing", "...Where
 >have all the magnetic anomalies gone..." because things had been
 >remarkably quiet. [Oops! That tune dates me, doesn't it?!]>

Thanks for the info.

As for being dated... you are dated when you recall 640 1240
Conelrad _and_ can tell what Conelrad meant.







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                            Phoenix Lights Stupor

From: Jim Kelly <Azredant@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 23:35:22 EST
Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 06:45:39 -0500
Subject: Phoenix Lights Stupor


Every so often this subject is rehashed like so many others on
UpDates. I understand the veracity of the investigators
involved in this mishmash of finger pointing about their
opinions, but since I know most of the investigators that worked
on the case it was particularly distressing to see how inept the
investigation was by all sides. I think that the lure of
television money, video rights, and public pressure destroyed
what potentially could have been one of the best UFO cases in
history. If all of the investigators would have teamed up to
get to the truth, who knows what the outcome would have been.

Bill, what I don't understand about your views is that you seem
to disregard the preponderance of evidence that suggests that
the 10:00 PM event was flares! You beat to death that newspaper
article that said the planes were back by 8:30 PM suggesting
that they could not have been flares at 10:00 PM. Do you think
that the newspaper might have made a mistake in that stated
time? Or maybe the PIO that was quoted might have given the
wrong time? There are retractions in every newspaper almost on
a daily basis. My Question to you is why didn't you or the
other investigators verify this information?

You also seem to be hung up on the amber color of these lights.
  If these objects were far away as believed to be, atmospheric
factors could account for the color disparity. There was a
temperature inversion over Phoenix that evening. Pollution over
the City provided us with a thick layer of particulate muck
which could have easily changed or enhanced the color of any
distant object. Yet, I never hear you bring up this scientific
fact. Why?

The video tape analysis by Village labs is my favorite topic
though. Jim D used different light sources like street lights,
vehicle head lights, and other sources to compare to the lights
over Phoenix on March 13th. He could not find a match to any of
these objects, he claimed.

In speaking with Tom King, Tom told me that he has matched many
sources of light to the March 13 lights over Phoenix with his
own computer software. Yet, we don't hear about this information
from the news stations, and cable shows that deal with the
subject. Why do you think that is?

In conclusion, the most mysterious aspect of the case is the
sole causality of the investigation. The earlier gigantic V
formation that no one seems to care about. That is the real
mystery hear, not the silly flare lights that the media
perpetrates as the giant mothership!


Jim Kelly








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                     Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 23:36:54 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 06:52:21 -0500
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Maccabee


 >From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 16:15:43 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux

 >If any of the many photographers during the Phoenix event(s) had
 >simply placed even a 'cheepie' type diffraction grating (such as
 >one can buy for a pittance from Edmund Scientific) properly over
 >a non-telephoto lens while properly positioning even one of the
 >'Phoenix Lights' in the viewfinder for photography, all this
 >discussion and argument might not be necessary.

 >Whatever their origin, those lights were sufficiently bright to
 >provide a film-recordable spectrum that could have been quite
 >diagnostic of the light source.

This is correct, based on the video I saw and studied. Although
the diffraction would have been weak I think it would have been
detectable.

 >It's time Ufology got down to the business of doing some
 >physical science instead of just hounding Big Brother to spill
 >out allegedly long-hidden 'truths'.

 >Just one highly exotic spectrum from a UFO might say more to
 >establishment science than anything to date. Let's not just
 >preach to the choir!

 >So, let's get going, guys and gals.

 >If you need any instructions as to how to best photograph a UFO
 >spectrum in a readable way, let me know and I will describe a
 >procedure that is pretty simple. I said, "...in a readable
 >way", because there are of lots of ways to photograph spectra
 >that do not provide maximum data. If a UFO comes your way, be
 >sure to do things with maximum competence and care, please.


Useful diff gratings can be obtained from Edmunds.







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                     Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 23:40:15 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 06:53:56 -0500
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Maccabee


 >From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 11:12:31 -0800
 >Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux

 >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 10:12:23 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux

<snip>

 >>I argue that the planes were flying high and dropping the flares
 >>to get rid of them, not to light up the ground, as they headed
 >>toward "home" in Tucson after a flare drop exercise at the Barry
 >>Goldwater training range.

 >The one flaw in this argument Bruce is that the planes all
 >returned to the ground by 8:30 PM according to the PRO at Davis-
 >Monthan AFB. Later the Arizona Republic says the planes took off
 >at 8:17 and returned at 10:30 PM. If returning by 10:30 PM and
 >ejecting flares while heading home, then they could not be near
t>he Ajo location you have determined because at 10:00 PM they
 >would still be close to the North Tac range and flying at low
 >altitude which is what A-10s do best as they are tank busters.
 >If they returned at 8:30 PM, then it is out of the question.

As far as times are concerned I have only stated my
interpretation of what was said about the Maryland National
Guard training exercise.

Irrespective of that the triangulation stands on its own. If
they were UFOs, they were 60 miles or more from Phoenix.






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                 Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line -

From: Michel M. Deschamps <ufoman@ican.net>
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 00:37:13 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 06:58:09 -0500
Subject: Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line -


 >From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 19:33:19 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
 >Subject: Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line

 >>Last Saturday's 'Strange Days... Indeed' interview with
 >>Ray Stanford is available for your listening pleasure at:

 >>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/sdi/program/sdi2003.html

 >>in program 234's listing.

 >>Ray revealed some interesting new research info.....

 >Hi everyone!

 >A few years ago while at the Toronto Central Reference Library I
 >read a few pages of Ray Stanford's very well researched book,
 >'Socorro 'Saucer' in a Pentagon Pantry' which is all about the
 >famous 1966 UFO landing/occupant case. I was surprised to learn
 >that actual physical evidence - metallic residue - was found on
 >the rocks that the UFO landed on!

 >This time while listening to Ray on Errol's 'SDI' radio program
 >last Saturday night, I was again amazed to hear about some other
 >very fascinating observations he has made. If Ray's findings as
 >he interprets them are correct, then we have some very
 >compelling evidence that UFOs are real and extraterrestrial in
 >origin. Although Ray has decided to make details of his findings
 >public sometime soon, I encourage everyone to hear Ray talk
 >about some of these exciting findings which he has already
 >shared with 'SDI' listeners.

Nick and listers,

One small correction.... the year of the Lonnie Zamora UFO
landing case is 1964... not 1966, and the date is April 24.
Unsolved Mysteries and SIGHTINGS both did excellent portrayals
of the event, which I have on VHS.

Cordially,

Michel M. Deschamps






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                      Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 04:19:03 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 07:38:27 -0500
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Hatch


 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 23:36:54 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux

 >>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 16:15:43 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux

 >>If any of the many photographers during the Phoenix event(s) had
 >>simply placed even a 'cheepie' type diffraction grating (such as
 >>one can buy for a pittance from Edmund Scientific) properly over
 >>a non-telephoto lens while properly positioning even one of the
 >>'Phoenix Lights' in the viewfinder for photography, all this
 >>discussion and argument might not be necessary.

 >>Whatever their origin, those lights were sufficiently bright to
 >>provide a film-recordable spectrum that could have been quite
 >>diagnostic of the light source.

 >This is correct, based on the video I saw and studied. Although
 >the diffraction would have been weak I think it would have been
 >detectable.

 >>It's time Ufology got down to the business of doing some
 >>physical science instead of just hounding Big Brother to spill
 >>out allegedly long-hidden 'truths'.

Amen.

 >>Just one highly exotic spectrum from a UFO might say more to
 >>establishment science than anything to date. Let's not just
 >>preach to the choir!

<snip>

 >>If you need any instructions as to how to best photograph a UFO
 >>spectrum in a readable way, let me know and I will describe a
 >>procedure that is pretty simple. I said, "...in a readable
 >>way", because there are of lots of ways to photograph spectra
 >>that do not provide maximum data. If a UFO comes your way, be
 >>sure to do things with maximum competence and care, please.

 >>Useful diff gratings can be obtained from Edmunds.


Hello Ray, Bruce...

Even though I'm a photography dummy, I really like it when
somebody comes up with an affordable, simple and effective way
of learning something new.

A diffraction grating! Why didn't I think of that? Maybe because
I don't know an f-stop from a bordello.

How many other good, simple and doable ideas are lurking
out there? Maybe some of those should appear right
here instead of the usual bickering. Some fresh air for
a change.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch







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               Re: Strange Sightings Over Washington Beltway -

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 04:55:32 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 18:05:09 -0500
Subject: Re: Strange Sightings Over Washington Beltway -


 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 23:25:41 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Strange Sightings Over Washington Beltway

 >>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 20:36:58 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Strange Sightings Over Washington Beltway

<snip>

 >Thanks for the info.

 >As for being dated... you are dated when you recall 640 1240
 >Conelrad _and_ can tell what Conelrad meant.


Hello Bruce:

I remember Conelrad, but forgot the proper frequencies. What I
do recall is that we should turn the volume up and down to
compensate for the stations switching on and off during an
atomic attack. That, and how to crouch under the school desks
properly [burp!]

That was well back before people sent anthrax laden letters to
the editor. White kids worked the hamburger joints, and milk was
delivered to the side porch here at 142 Jeter Street. You had to
wait a minute for the radio tubes to warm up before Conelrad
could come in.

Kids were praised if they could spell Czechoslovakia. Heck,
that's easier than Mackabbee. No repeated letters to trip you
up, and the ice cream truck is playing "farmer in the dell."


Best wishes

- Larry

PS: The US and Canadian dollars were equal, give or take a
penny. The dimes, quarters and half-dollars were all 90% silver.
The silver dollars used in Nevada were 92.5% silver, sterling
silver.






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                    Re: Phoenix Lights Stupor - Hamilton

From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 07:05:38 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 18:07:50 -0500
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Stupor - Hamilton


 >From: Jim Kelly <Azredant@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 23:35:22 EST
 >Subject: Phoenix Lights Stupor

 >Every so often this subject is rehashed like so many others on
 >UpDates. I understand the veracity of the investigators
 >involved in this mishmash of finger pointing about their
 >opinions, but since I know most of the investigators that worked
 >on the case it was particularly distressing to see how inept the
 >investigation was by all sides. I think that the lure of
 >television money, video rights, and public pressure destroyed
 >what potentially could have been one of the best UFO cases in
 >history. If all of the investigators would have teamed up to
 >get to the truth, who knows what the outcome would have been.

Sorry it wasn't, but it was Richard Motzer that threw a monkey
wrench into the works. Ask the witnesses. You say "inept", but
you yourself don't seem to have a very good grasp of the
situation and I would like to know what investigation credits
you have. Talk about pointing fingers, I see yours pointing as
well. So, why not contribute to some rational discussion instead
of saying the investigation was mucked up?

 >Bill, what I don't understand about your views is that you seem
 >to disregard the preponderance of evidence that suggests that
 >the 10:00 PM event was flares! You beat to death that newspaper
 >article that said the planes were back by 8:30 PM suggesting
 >that they could not have been flares at 10:00 PM. Do you think
 >that the newspaper might have made a mistake in that stated
 >time? Or maybe the PIO that was quoted might have given the
 >wrong time? There are retractions in every newspaper almost on
 >a daily basis. My Question to you is why didn't you or the
 >other investigators verify this information?

Again, the lights had none of the characteristics of flares. As
for verifying the info, we tried several times an could not get
a response from DM AFB or the Maryland ANG.

 >You also seem to be hung up on the amber color of these lights.
 > If these objects were far away as believed to be, atmospheric
 >factors could account for the color disparity. There was a
 >temperature inversion over Phoenix that evening. Pollution over
 >the City provided us with a thick layer of particulate muck
 >which could have easily changed or enhanced the color of any
 >distant object. Yet, I never hear you bring up this scientific
 >fact. Why?

Come on, Jim, polluted coloring of lights is easy for me to
identify and even aircraft lights here in the desert still
appear whitish at 60 miles. When there is air pollution there is
an orangish tinge, but not something strikingly golden amber.

Many saw similar amber color when the lights were overhead.

And I have argued about the polluion factor before, but even as
Tom has said the sky was very clear that night. Tom even took a
video shot of the moon for reference.

 >The video tape analysis by Village labs is my favorite topic
 >though. Jim D used different light sources like street lights,
 >vehicle head lights, and other sources to compare to the lights
 >over Phoenix on March 13th. He could not find a match to any of
 >these objects, he claimed.

 >In speaking with Tom King, Tom told me that he has matched many
 >sources of light to the March 13 lights over Phoenix with his
 >own computer software. Yet, we don't hear about this information
 >from the news stations, and cable shows that deal with the
 >subject. Why do you think that is?

 >In conclusion, the most mysterious aspect of the case is the
 >sole causality of the investigation. The earlier gigantic V
 >formation that no one seems to care about. That is the real
 >mystery hear, not the silly flare lights that the media
 >perpetrates as the giant mothership!

The V is one thing, but what about the Triangle? Why don't you
mention this? It was even more impressive than the V.


-Bill Hamilton









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                      FOIA Request To FBI Headquarters

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net>
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 11:57:09 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 18:11:14 -0500
Subject: FOIA Request To FBI Headquarters



TO: Director
U. S. Federal Bureau of Investigation
ATTN: Freedom of Information Manager
Washington, DC 20535

FROM: Larry W. Bryant
3518 Martha Custis Drive
Alexandria, VA 22302

DATE: April 5, 2003

Referring to the enclosed April 1, 2003 obituary (from the San
Jose, Calif., Mercury News) of the late nuclear historian Chuck
Hansen, I hereby submit this FOIA request for a copy of all FBI-
generated and FBI-received records pertaining to Mr. Hansen's
activities, research, associations, correspondence,
telecommunications, travel background, writings, publications,
speeches, library visits, and FOIA usage -- said records to
include all dossiers and wiretap transcripts deriving from any
official U. S. government investigation and/or surveillance of
him.



LARRY W. BRYANT

P.S.: Via first-class U. S. mail, I'm sending to you a signed
printout of this e-formatted request.

Copies furnished to:

Mark S. Zaid, Esq. (Washington, D.C.)

Chairman, Subcommittee on Government Information, Management,
and Technology -- U. S. House of Representatives







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                      Gulf Breeze Photo Analysis Update

From: Ben Holland <b.holland@worldonline.cz>
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 20:28:04 +0200
Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 18:12:19 -0500
Subject: Gulf Breeze Photo Analysis Update


Updates on the Gulf Breeze photographs with commentaries.

http://benholland.8k.com/Updates.htm

Please note this section on witness commentary:

http://benholland.8k.com/photoanalysisnotacase.htm

Have Fun!


Ben Holland







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                 Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line -

From: Geoff Richardson <geoff@fastdog.karoo.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 20:14:12 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 18:14:32 -0500
Subject: Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line -


 >From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 19:33:19 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
 >Subject: Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line

 >>Last Saturday's 'Strange Days... Indeed' interview with
 >>Ray Stanford is available for your listening pleasure at:

 >>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/sdi/program/sdi2003.html

 >>in program 234's listing.

 >>Ray revealed some interesting new research info.....

 >A few years ago while at the Toronto Central Reference Library I
 >read a few pages of Ray Stanford's very well researched book,
 >'Socorro 'Saucer' in a Pentagon Pantry' which is all about the
 >famous 1966 UFO landing/occupant case. I was surprised to learn
 >that actual physical evidence - metallic residue - was found on
 >the rocks that the UFO landed on!

 >This time while listening to Ray on Errol's 'SDI' radio program
 >last Saturday night, I was again amazed to hear about some other
 >very fascinating observations he has made. If Ray's findings as
 >he interprets them are correct, then we have some very
 >compelling evidence that UFOs are real and extraterrestrial in
 >origin. Although Ray has decided to make details of his findings
 >public sometime soon, I encourage everyone to hear Ray talk
 >about some of these exciting findings which he has already
 >shared with 'SDI' listeners.


I would like to add to Nick's remarks regarding Ray Stanford's
book - "A Socorro 'Saucer in a Pentagon Pantry'. I have
obviously read quite a number of Ufology related books and Ray
Stanford's "Socorro Saucer..." must rate amongst the best.

Not just an example of detailed dedicated research but written
in such a way that it will appeal to everyone interested in
genuine Ufology.

IMHO a classic.


Geoff Richardson
The WHY? Files






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                       Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - King

From: Tom King <tomking2030@hotmail.com>
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 19:14:25 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 18:25:23 -0500
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - King


 >From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 11:04:27 -0800
 >Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux

 >>From: Tom King <Tomking2030@Hotmail.Com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 16:10:22 +0000
 >>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux

 >>>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 07:03:20 -0800
 >>>Subject: Phoenix Lights Redux [was: Flares Over Basra]

 >>>>From: Mike Fortson <satmike@cox.net>
 >>>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>>Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 15:39:01 -0700
 >>>>Subject: Re: Flares Over Basra

 >>>>The point I was trying to make, is the name given to the March
 >>>>13, 1997, Phoenix Lights, is wrong. Those lights on the five
 >>>>10:00 p.m. MST videos were not over Phoenix. Or even in Maricopa
 >>>>county. But the media deemed the deceptive title, and it stuck.

 >>I remember Jim was the one who coined the events "Phoenix Lights".

 >Yep, not a bad name for it. All sightings involved lights.

The sightings took place all over the state and some were more
than just lights. Its also the name of your book.

 >>>>And no one involved in the investigation or witnesses have ever
 >>>>claimed "flares" when discussing the 8:16 p.m. MST, Pauldon,
 >>>>Az., sightings through what we saw in Chandler at 8:30 p.m. MST.

 >>>That is correct Mike. However, it seems like there are still
 >>>many unaware that these amber lights at 10 were seen elsewhere
 >>>at different times of the night at different locations, and some
 >>>even seen rising vertically! Also, the big triangle was seen
 >>>with amber lights that could detach.

 >>>>And as you well know, we saw much more than lights.

 >>>Yes, you and others reported seeing a structure. You could see
 >>>it because part of that structure passed in front of the moon.
 >>>Others could see structure because of the reflection of ground
 >>>light and because the structure passed over at low altitude.

 >>>>I always thought it was Capt. Eileen Beinz who broke the story
 >>>>of flares. It was reported in the Arizona Republic. Her
 >>>>"solution" to the apparent "problem" was front page news.

 >>>Only after I asked her to look and she contacted Davis-Monthan
 >>>who, it turns out, had just released the story in the Tucson
 >>>newspaper, but the Tucson paper was clear that the A-10s
 >>>returned to base by 8:30 PM, the LU-U2 flares were white and so
 >>>they concluded that what you saw were flares. It was Eileen who
 >>>appended this explanation to the 10 PM videos.

 >>>>The problem with her story was altitude. I think the final
 >>>>altitude of the flares, to make it seen in Phoenix, were near
 >>>>16,000'. I asked her, on air during a live radio call-in, was
 >>>>that altitude the drop altitude? Or the ignition altitude? She
 >>>>went totally quite and KTAR went to commercial.

 >>>They would have to be that high to be seen over the mountains,
 >>>but there were some below the mountains to the far right, but
 >>>since everyone is convinced they were above the mountains I am
 >>>just traveling around on a carousel so I just say let people
 >>>believe what they want to believe, but they are not taking in
 >>>the whole picture and including all of the events of that night.

 >>I showed you and Mike Tanner how _all_ 5 videos from that night
 >>were shot at the same time. The triangulation from all of the
 >>videos puts them far behind the Estrella Mountains. ASU did
 >>their own GPS positioning and confirmed this. A simple spilt
 >>screen of the videos shows how we all taped the same amber
 >>lights at the same time. Even Bruce Macabees own independent
 >>study confirms all of the above.

 >I don't doubt it though you originally reached a different
 >conclusion.

 >>When showing the split screen to you guys the reaction is the
 >>look of a deer in headlights, you guys refuse to discuss it.
 >>Refuse to publicly debate how off your conclusions are about the
 >>10:00 pm videos. Instead you tell a story that simply didn't
 >>happen and you point towards inconsistencies in media and
 >>military reports instead of dealing with the basic facts.

 >>According to Bill Hamilton and Village Labs there are two sets
 >>of 9 amber lights that night. One to the south end of the
 >>Estrellas (9:45) that disappeared and then it reappeared to the
 >>north(10:00).

 >What? I never heard anyone say this!

You never heard of any of this? Go to page 3 of your book, 3rd
paragraph "The Phoenix Lights Mystery". You wrote "We are still
not certain that these videos were all taken at the same time or
within 5 minutes of our taping as it is very difficult to
synchronize the timing of the images on the various tapes".

Then after that to to page 100 of your book were you wrote the
following. "These lights appeared in front of the Estrella
Mountains at about half the elevation of the highest peak or
4,515 feet. Although we always said we took the video at close
to 10 PM the night of March 13th, we actually started taping
them, according to my watch, at about 9:55 PM. We do not believe
that Mike Kryston of Moon Valley or L.K. of Paradise Valley
could have taped the same set of lights at the same time due to
the intervening obstruction of the South Mountain."

On top of that I have a map Village Labs put out that goes along
with what your saying. So your contradicting what you say in
your own book! The publishing date in the book is listed as
2001. Thats 3 years after I showed you guys all my work on spilt
screens and how these videos were all taken at the same time but
you ignored that and it didn't go in your book.


 >We saw a double light at
 >9:45 PM - you and I did, Tom, and that is why you raced
 >downstairs at Steve's house to get your videocam and I raced
 >down too. When we went back to the balcony, the double light had
 >gone out, then around 10 PM, it re-lit in the same location.
 >There were other witnesses who saw this.

Again this simply is wrong. I did tape the first light we saw
and got about 2 minutes of it on tape. It wasn't a 'double
light' like you say heres a frame grab to look at.

http://www.ufovideo.com/march13/945.jpg

It flickered fast and dropped out of sight and one person said
they thought it went behind the mountain on the tape.

 >>Here is a map of what they think happened that night.

 >>http://www.ufovideo.com/march13/vill.jpg

 >>That map certainly doesn't reflect any solid facts. I would have
 >>seen another string of lights west of me and I didn't neither
 >>did anyone else. The poor analysis of Mike Crystens video
 >>placing it below the mountain is one reason behind your theory.

 >I guess you don't understand my theory then.

I certainly don't understand what your talking about. Here is a
blank map of the region. Can you paint on it and provide some
kind of idea what it is your talking about here?

http://www.ufovideo.com/march13/estrella.jpg

 >>Bill explain this?

 >>How is it when the lights go out in Mike Crysten's video, Terry
 >>Proctor is 15 miles north of him still taping the lights? If
 >>they are taping the same group of lights at the same time then
 >>this isn't possible. The lights dropped behind mountains from
 >>Mike Crystens vantage point but Proctor at a higher elevation
 >>can still see them. Or are you going to say were there 3 sets of
 >>amber lights? Fill us in on how this is possible with your
 >>theory.

 >I say the lights to the far right were not behind the mountain.
 >Do a pixel count and proportional analysis. You don't seem to
 >remember that the lights we saw (not all 9) were dropping off to
 >the right so that the remaining 3 were so low that they were
 >behind a chimney.

Ok, now based upon this new theory I rendered the map below.

http://www.ufovideo.com/march13/bill1.jpg

Bill, so now were looking at the lights to the NE? You just gave
out two different stories in one E-mail! You say all five shot
the same thing. Then you say we didn't shot the same thing.

I'm not doing a pixel count on lights so far away they could be
in orbit. Thats like people taping satellites and trying to
study grainy camcorder footage. I did a disolve of Mike
Crysten's video from night to day. It was just like the one
Discovery Channel put out. I showed you that in 1997 at my
house. You said that day to night disolves don't count in a case
light this and I should count his pixels from 75 miles away.

 >>How can all of the videos be split screened accurately if were
 >>not taping the same event? An event you guys say happened at two
 >>different times and at two different locations.

 >I believe we were taping the same event. I never really thought
 >otherwise, but at one time you did.

What you just said is entirely different than what is in your
book. I wonder how inaccurate your book really is? If you can't
keep your story straight on the event you saw at 10:00 pm how
can you accurately report on what others saw at 8:30?

 >>Here is a map from MUFON of the real triangulation.

 >>http://www.ufovideo.com/march13/MUFONAZmap.jpg

 >>You can point to all the newspaper reports and other sightings
 >>that night until your blue in the face. It won't explain away
 >>the triangulation, GPS, or spilt screen video. The 10:00 pm
 >>event can't be called UFOs because flares can't absolutely be
 >>ruled out.

 >I can rule them out based on what I saw and matched to what
 >others have seen.

Sorry Bill but what you say and what you publish
appear to be very different things.

Tom King

http://www.ufovideo.com/march13









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                       Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - King

From: Tom King <tomking2030@hotmail.com>
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 19:21:24 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 18:28:36 -0500
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - King


 >From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 11:06:16 -0800
 >Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux

 >>From: Tom King <Tomking2030@Hotmail.Com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 15:14:19 +0000
 >>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux

 >>>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 06:52:18 -0800
 >>>Subject: Re: Flares Over Basra

 >>>No matter what I have said there will be those that will persist
 >>>in their belief that these were flares that we saw on March
 >>>13th. Even Tom King keeps forgetting that we saw a "double"
 >>>light at 9:45 PM (I looked at my watch) and it was the first to
 >>>reappear at 10:00 PM in the same locaation!

 >>Because there are two orange lights close together does not rule
 >>out flares.

 >No, but the fact they re-lit seems to rule out flares.

There was no double light at 9:45 nor did it relight in the
exact location. Here is screen grab of the light Bill says I
didn't tape that night.

http://www.ufovideo.com/march13/945.jpg

 >>>BTW, he never looked through his own telescope so he doen't know
 >>>what I saw.

 >>True I was busy videotaping the event, you would of too if you
 >>bothered to charge your batteries earlier.

 >My battery was depleted - you know that - I had charged it but
 >it had run its course.

Not sure how a battery runs its course but if you check or know
your equipment this wouldn't have happened. I'm sure the
batteries didn't die due to supernatural forces.

It would have been great to have two camera angles that night,
it really could have answered alot more questions we have. I
find it very ironic on the biggest UFO sightings in history you
forgot to charge your batteries yet you became the head of
Skywatch International soon afterwards. I'm glad I know my
equipment or I'd be kicking myself in the ass the rest of my
life for not properly preparing for the skywatch.

 >>>He was certain these lights were not flares until he
 >>>had a falling out with Jim Diletosso, then he reversed his
 >>>position. That is what I saw happen.

 >>Bill, you're implying that because Village Labs and I had a
 >>disagreement that I decided to change my opinion because of
 >>that? No I had a falling out with them for a variety of reasons.
 >>One being they can't properly analyze the videos from that
 >>night.

 >I disagree.

I think I have proved I left the Vilage Labs camp due what I
thought of as sloppy work.


Tom







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                      Re: Phoenix Lights Stupor - King

From: Tom King <tomking2030@hotmail.com>
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 19:31:15 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 18:30:48 -0500
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Stupor - King


 >From: Jim Kelly <Azredant@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 23:35:22 EST
 >Subject: Phoenix Lights Stupor

 >Every so often this subject is rehashed like so many others on
 >UpDates. I understand the veracity of the investigators
 >involved in this mishmash of finger pointing about their
 >opinions, but since I know most of the investigators that worked
 >on the case it was particularly distressing to see how inept the
 >investigation was by all sides. I think that the lure of
 >television money, video rights, and public pressure destroyed
 >what potentially could have been one of the best UFO cases in
 >history. If all of the investigators would have teamed up to
 >get to the truth, who knows what the outcome would have been.

 >Bill, what I don't understand about your views is that you seem
 >to disregard the preponderance of evidence that suggests that
 >the 10:00 PM event was flares! You beat to death that newspaper
 >article that said the planes were back by 8:30 PM suggesting
 >that they could not have been flares at 10:00 PM. Do you think
 >that the newspaper might have made a mistake in that stated
 >time? Or maybe the PIO that was quoted might have given the
 >wrong time? There are retractions in every newspaper almost on
 >a daily basis. My Question to you is why didn't you or the
 >other investigators verify this information?

 >You also seem to be hung up on the amber color of these lights.

 >If these objects were far away as believed to be, atmospheric
 >factors could account for the color disparity. There was a
 >temperature inversion over Phoenix that evening. Pollution over
 >the City provided us with a thick layer of particulate muck
 >which could have easily changed or enhanced the color of any
 >distant object. Yet, I never hear you bring up this scientific
 >fact. Why?

 >The video tape analysis by Village labs is my favorite topic
 >though. Jim D used different light sources like street lights,
 >vehicle head lights, and other sources to compare to the lights
 >over Phoenix on March 13th. He could not find a match to any of
 >these objects, he claimed.

 >In speaking with Tom King, Tom told me that he has matched many
 >sources of light to the March 13 lights over Phoenix with his
 >own computer software. Yet, we don't hear about this information
 >from the news stations, and cable shows that deal with the
 >subject. Why do you think that is?

 >In conclusion, the most mysterious aspect of the case is the
 >sole causality of the investigation. The earlier gigantic V
 >formation that no one seems to care about. That is the real
 >mystery hear, not the silly flare lights that the media
 >perpetrates as the giant mothership!


A study of the 3-13-97 case should be done by all serious UFO
researchers to learn how not to handle a massive UFO case. I'll
bet most don't know many of the behind the scene stories of what
happened during the investigations. This could have been a
really great cornerstone case of Ufology if the case was handled
right. Instead you had infighting, people compartmentalizing the
case and profiting from it, poor research, death threats,
debunkers, band wagoneers, media inaccurately portraying the
event.

I know I could have done a better job here and there and I'm as
much to blame as others. Atleast I recognize my faults and I'm
trying to address what happened and point out incorrect research
where I can.

However if this type of sighting were to happen again somewhere
else. I'll bet the same mistakes will be made by other sets of
researchers.

The proper study of the large V was the casualty of this case
not our reputations.


Tom King








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                            Phoenix Lights Videos

From: Geoff Richardson <geoff@fastdog.karoo.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 20:34:05 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 18:32:43 -0500
Subject: Phoenix Lights Videos


A number of videos relating to the Phoenix Lights series of
events are uploaded at The WHY? FILES. See "Phoenix Lights"

http://www.thewhyfiles.co.uk


Geoff Richardson







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                     For The Military Conspiracy People

From: Tom King <tomking2030@hotmail.com>
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 21:48:04 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 18:34:18 -0500
Subject: For The Military Conspiracy People


For all you people on this list that believe all UFOS are just
U.S. military Pysops test on the planet. IE... 3-13-97 boomerang
was hologram or blimp etc...

Can you please explain why our recent wars in Afghanistan and
Iraq are not using this technology? Many peoples lives are on
the line and were is this supreme technology to help save lives?

Were is 'Bubba' flying over Iraq sending live video to Centcom?
Instead we have the predator flying in circles.

Were is all this hologram technology you preach about? How come
they don't use it on the enemy but they use it over our major
cities? I think if we had holograms that can fool 1,000 people
into seeing a massive UFO we would use it to make people believe
they are see the devil or something to scare the hell out of
them.

People say most of the UFOs we see are from Area 51 and we have
a bunch of these disc. I don't understand why we have
helicopters getting shot down when the military conspiracy
people say we have discs.


Tom King

www.ufovideo.com







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             UFO Spectro-Photography [was: Phoenix Lights Redux]

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 17:25:04 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 18:37:10 -0500
Subject: UFO Spectro-Photography [was: Phoenix Lights Redux]


 >From: Joyce Aldrich-Halfin <solar_wind@rogers.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 22:48:47 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux

<snip>

 >Armchair Ufology is easy. Going out into the field is an
 >entirely different scenario, though, and one that needs special
 >care and preparation. I, personally, am a mere experiencer with
 >no interest in looking for the smoking gun, but I do really
 >appreciate it when research is backed by an honest attempt at
 >gathering and verifying evidence or information.

 >Perhaps Ray would be willing to recommend a list of items that
 >the serious UFO researcher should never leave home without, and
 >where to get it or make it or whatever. That would be a valuable
 >legacy, indeed.

 >Joyce Aldrich-Halfin,

Your comments are appreciated, because knowledge that a
thoughtful persons agrees is encouraging.

In responding to your welcome suggestion for a list of take-
along equipment for the serious UFO researcher, let me divide
that into two postings. This first one will make some
suggestions about how to use a diffraction grating, optimally,
in photographing light spectra of anomalous areial objects or
phenomena:

Fine grained, high speed black and white film is O.K. for
spectral photography, because, for precision, one determines
wavelength by measuring the distance of spectral lines from the
zero order image (being the 'UFO' image in this application),
NOT by looking at color on a film. I do not recommend digital
cameras for UFO spectral photography because skeptics might
assert that the spectrum was digitally altered or even totally
fake. But, of course, if a digital camera is one's only means of
taking a spectrum, go ahead and use it, of course.

Some on this list may already know what I will say about using a
diffraction grading. You can use a very inexpensive 'replica'
grading or, preferably, a better one. I use a custom, precision
'blazed' glass grating that was made to our staff physicist's
specifications by Bausch & Lomb, but I seem to recall that it
cost us about $500, and it may be more expensive now. A blazed
grating helps transfer more of the light from the source being
studied by casting much more of the light into the spectral
dispersion of one side (of the zero-order image) than to the
other (rather than equally in both directions), and therefore is
especially helpful if the light being studied is not very
bright.

If possible, shoot from a stable tripod. Be sure to orient your
grating (properly mounted in a traditional filter holder in
front of your lens, unless in an emergency) so that the spectral
dispersion is at a right angle (90 degrees) to the direction of
travel of the light source 'UFO'. Why? So that spectral lines
are not smeared (due to object motion) into each other during
the time of exposure on film. This is especially important if
the object is moving at a substantial angular velocity and the
shutter speed is low.

On a 35 mm camera the lens should have a maximum of 50 mm focal
length, and, preferably, less, for spectrum photography. If you
use any longer focal length, you will not get a whole spectrum
onto your film. Use telephotos only for higher resolution of the
image of an object, not for spectral photography. Recording an
object image and an object's light spectrum are two entirely
different objectives. Be clear of that in your mind, using a
lens appropriate to each. Remember: Use a long focal length for
image. Use only a short focal lengrth for spectral photography.
Of course, the long focal length spreads the image out onto a
larger area of your film, but a short focal length focuses it
into a small area on the film, which is just what you need for a
good spectrum photo.

Try to locate the zero order image (the image of the object
being studied, per se) as close to the edge of the film as
reasonable for a good image. Why? So that both primary and
secondary spectral dispersions are captured on film. People tend
to miss the second order spectrum by letting it be 'out of the
film frame'. That secondary spectral dispersion can be very
important in analysis of the spectrum. It is located out at a
distance out along the dispersal line, beyond the primary
spectrum.

Practice using your specto-photography setup on ordinary distant
light sources, so that you know what you are doing when a
seeming UFO comes along.

Then, on the same roll of film (if possible, but definitely with
the system set up precisely as it was when the anomalous light
source was photographed) one should take some 'control' shots of
familiar spectral sources that have distinctive lines of known
wavelength. Place the 'control' light source precisely where the
'UFO' (zero-order image) was during your spectro-photography of
it. I prefer to use, for that purpose, tubes specifically
prepared for spectral calibration, such as one containing
hydrogen, with its very distinctive line. Having done that, one
can use the 'control' spectra for precise calibration of the
system's results involving the 'UFO' light.

I have already said that a very exotic light spectrum in a well
documented UFO case could substantially alter scientific
concensus concerning UFO significance. Example, please? How
about a UFO light spectrum that has only a single line to it
(just one exact wavelength) and wherein that single line is
split into, say, four components (spectral line-splitting, the
'Stark Effect')?

There is simply no prosaic explanation for such an exotic light
source flying around in the sky, but one might, theoretically,
record just such a spectrum from an object utilizing external
magneto-hydrodynamic propulsion in earth's atmosphere, provided
certain conditions are present.

Dare you miss the opportunity to learn whether the thing you see
and think could be a UFO can 'sign' your film with a unique,
diagnostic 'luminous signature'?

Snap those diffraction gratings onto that camera and get going.
You don't have to be a Ph.D. physicist to get spectral photos of
UFOs, even though I would advise one for purpose of analyzing
the result(s).

Very important: When the seeming UFO event is over, for
documentation, have every willing witness watch you remove the
film from your camera, pull the film leader out of the cylinder,
and have each scratch his or her name (and date) into the film
emulsion with a straight pin or the like (on the light-exposed,
useless end of the film). That way, no one can claim you
switched films, substituting one 'made up, elsewhere. That is
the kind of documentation our project has always used, and
documentation is very important when dealing with matters of
potential controversy.

Have witnesses present at the processing, if possible, too.

And, yes, Joyce, a later posting will make other suggestions of
other equipment and applications of it. Thanks for suggesting
it.

Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of trifles." --
Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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               Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 23:42:22 +0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 10:36:05 -0400
Subject: Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line - Hall


 >From: Geoff Richardson <geoff@fastdog.karoo.co.uk>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 20:14:12 +0100
 >Subject: Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line

 >>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 19:33:19 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
 >>Subject: Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line

 >>>Last Saturday's 'Strange Days... Indeed' interview with
 >>>Ray Stanford is available for your listening pleasure at:

 >>>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/sdi/program/sdi2003.html

 >>>in program 234's listing.

 >>>Ray revealed some interesting new research info.....

 >>A few years ago while at the Toronto Central Reference Library I
 >>read a few pages of Ray Stanford's very well researched book,
 >>'Socorro 'Saucer' in a Pentagon Pantry' which is all about the
 >>famous 1966 UFO landing/occupant case. I was surprised to learn
 >>that actual physical evidence - metallic residue - was found on
 >>the rocks that the UFO landed on!

 >>This time while listening to Ray on Errol's 'SDI' radio program
 >>last Saturday night, I was again amazed to hear about some other
 >>very fascinating observations he has made. If Ray's findings as
 >>he interprets them are correct, then we have some very
 >>compelling evidence that UFOs are real and extraterrestrial in
 >>origin. Although Ray has decided to make details of his findings
 >>public sometime soon, I encourage everyone to hear Ray talk
 >>about some of these exciting findings which he has already
 >>shared with 'SDI' listeners.

 >I would like to add to Nick's remarks regarding Ray Stanford's
 >book - "A Socorro 'Saucer in a Pentagon Pantry'. I have
 >obviously read quite a number of Ufology related books and Ray
 >Stanford's "Socorro Saucer..." must rate amongst the best.

 >Not just an example of detailed dedicated research but written
 >in such a way that it will appeal to everyone interested in
 >genuine Ufology.

 >IMHO a classic.


Geoff,

Classic BS! Okay, I have bit my tongue until I drew blood,
and I have had enough.

Stanford's depiction of the alleged metallic physical trace
evidence was rebutted 20+ years ago, and I am horrified to see
him (like the Night of the Living Dead) rising up once again to
purvey his false version of what happened.

As I reported back in the 1970s, Stanford is the only
one who claims what he claims. Everyone at NICAP at the time,
including me and Walt Webb (who accompanied Stanford to the
Goddard Space Flight Center with the trace sample) say
otherwise.

He badly wanted to believe that he had the ultimate physical
proof, but that is _not_ what the NASA analysis indicated. I am
prepared to go to the mat on this. Stanford's version of what
happened is riddled with factual errors and paranoid imaginings.


- Dick








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              Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 20:54:51 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 10:38:37 -0400
Subject: Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line - Ledger


 >From: Geoff Richardson <geoff@fastdog.karoo.co.uk>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 20:14:12 +0100
 >Subject: Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line

 >>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 19:33:19 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
 >>Subject: Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line

 >>>Last Saturday's 'Strange Days... Indeed' interview with
 >>>Ray Stanford is available for your listening pleasure at:

 >>>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/sdi/program/sdi2003.html

 >>>in program 234's listing.

 >>>Ray revealed some interesting new research info.....

 >>A few years ago while at the Toronto Central Reference Library I
 >>read a few pages of Ray Stanford's very well researched book,
 >>'Socorro 'Saucer' in a Pentagon Pantry' which is all about the
 >>famous 1966 UFO landing/occupant case. I was surprised to learn
 >>that actual physical evidence - metallic residue - was found on
 >>the rocks that the UFO landed on!

 >>This time while listening to Ray on Errol's 'SDI' radio program
 >>last Saturday night, I was again amazed to hear about some other
 >>very fascinating observations he has made. If Ray's findings as
 >>he interprets them are correct, then we have some very
 >>compelling evidence that UFOs are real and extraterrestrial in
 >>origin. Although Ray has decided to make details of his findings
 >>public sometime soon, I encourage everyone to hear Ray talk
 >>about some of these exciting findings which he has already
 >>shared with 'SDI' listeners.

 >I would like to add to Nick's remarks regarding Ray Stanford's
 >book - "A Socorro 'Saucer in a Pentagon Pantry'. I have
 >obviously read quite a number of Ufology related books and Ray
 >Stanford's "Socorro Saucer..." must rate amongst the best.

 >Not just an example of detailed dedicated research but written
 >in such a way that it will appeal to everyone interested in
 >genuine Ufology.

 >IMHO a classic.


Hi Geoff, Nick et al,

I'd like to echo that compliment. Great book and a fine
investigation. Ray and I traded books last Summer and I think I
got the better end of the deal.

Great work and a classic investigation.


Don Ledger






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                     Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Hamilton

From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 18:23:14 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 10:40:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Hamilton


 >From: Tom King <tomking2030@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 19:21:24 +0000
 >Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux

 >>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 11:06:16 -0800
 >>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux

 >>>From: Tom King <Tomking2030@Hotmail.Com>
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 15:14:19 +0000
 >>>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux

 >>>>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
 >>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>>Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 06:52:18 -0800
 >>>>Subject: Re: Flares Over Basra

 >>>>No matter what I have said there will be those that will persist
 >>>>in their belief that these were flares that we saw on March
 >>>>13th. Even Tom King keeps forgetting that we saw a "double"
 >>>>light at 9:45 PM (I looked at my watch) and it was the first to
 >>>>reappear at 10:00 PM in the same locaation!

 >>>Because there are two orange lights close together does not rule
 >>>out flares.

 >>No, but the fact they re-lit seems to rule out flares.

 >There was no double light at 9:45 nor did it relight in the
 >exact location. Here is screen grab of the light Bill says I
 >didn't tape that night.

Your memory is suffering here, Tom, but I will not argue this as
it will be your word against mine and the other witnesses are
now gone. Your camcorder was in your car when it first
appeared. Enuf said!







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                     Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Hamilton

From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 18:28:03 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 10:43:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Hamilton


 >From: Tom King <tomking2030@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 19:14:25 +0000
 >Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux

 >>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 11:04:27 -0800
 >>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux

 >>>From: Tom King <Tomking2030@Hotmail.Com>
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 16:10:22 +0000
 >>>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux

<snip>

 >>According to Bill Hamilton and Village Labs there are two sets
 >>>of 9 amber lights that night. One to the south end of the
 >>>Estrellas (9:45) that disappeared and then it reappeared to the
 >>>north(10:00).

 >>What? I never heard anyone say this!

 >You never heard of any of this? Go to page 3 of your book, 3rd
 >paragraph "The Phoenix Lights Mystery". You wrote "We are still
 >not certain that these videos were all taken at the same time or
 >within 5 minutes of our taping as it is very difficult to
 >synchronize the timing of the images on the various tapes".

Yes, and that was based on your attempt to do so.

 >Then after that to to page 100 of your book were you wrote the
 >following. "These lights appeared in front of the Estrella
 >Mountains at about half the elevation of the highest peak or
 >4,515 feet. Although we always said we took the video at close
 >to 10 PM the night of March 13th, we actually started taping
 >them, according to my watch, at about 9:55 PM. We do not believe
 >that Mike Kryston of Moon Valley or L.K. of Paradise Valley
 >could have taped the same set of lights at the same time due to
 >the intervening obstruction of the South Mountain."

That was an attempt to explain minor discrepancies, but I never
said there were two "sets" of different lights just uttered the
possibility that the first set had moved. Now, I do not think
they did.

 >On top of that I have a map Village Labs put out that goes along
 >with what your saying. So your contradicting what you say in
 >your own book! The publishing date in the book is listed as
 >2001. Thats 3 years after I showed you guys all my work on spilt
 >screens and how these videos were all taken at the same time but
 >you ignored that and it didn't go in your book.

I am not contradicting what I said. I am contradicting what you
said I said.

 >>We saw a double light at
 >>9:45 PM - you and I did, Tom, and that is why you raced
 >>downstairs at Steve's house to get your videocam and I raced
 >>down too. When we went back to the balcony, the double light had
 >>gone out, then around 10 PM, it re-lit in the same location.
 >>There were other witnesses who saw this.

 >Again this simply is wrong. I did tape the first light we saw
 >and got about 2 minutes of it on tape. It wasn't a 'double
 >light' like you say heres a frame grab to look at.

Simply, not so. You did not have your camera at the time. And
I don't see a time marker on the jpg.






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                      Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Gates

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 03:21:09 EDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 22:47:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Gates


 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 23:40:15 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux

 >>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 11:12:31 -0800
 >>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux

 >>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 10:12:23 -0500
 >>>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux

 ><snip>

 >>>I argue that the planes were flying high and dropping the flares
 >>>to get rid of them, not to light up the ground, as they headed
 >>>toward "home" in Tucson after a flare drop exercise at the Barry
 >>>Goldwater training range.

 >>The one flaw in this argument Bruce is that the planes all
 >>returned to the ground by 8:30 PM according to the PRO at Davis-
 >>Monthan AFB. Later the Arizona Republic says the planes took off
 >>at 8:17 and returned at 10:30 PM. If returning by 10:30 PM and
 >>ejecting flares while heading home, then they could not be near
 >t>he Ajo location you have determined because at 10:00 PM they
 >>would still be close to the North Tac range and flying at low
 >>altitude which is what A-10s do best as they are tank busters.
 >>If they returned at 8:30 PM, then it is out of the question.

 >As far as times are concerned I have only stated my
 >interpretation of what was said about the Maryland National
 >Guard training exercise.

Bruce, Listers,

Probably this question has already been answered by somebody
at sometime but let me run this up the flag pole again.

Has anybody ever FOIA requested a copy of the annual history of
the MD Air National Guard for 1997 or some historical document
that describes the annual exercise?  What would be interesting
to see is if the Annual history references anything connected to
the exercise. Perhaps we might get a list of the pilots that
were deployed, in which some of them could be run down to see if
they recall anything.

Cheers,

Robert






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                           Tools For UFO Research

From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos@yahoo.es>
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 11:09:03 +0200 (CEST)
Fwd Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 22:50:50 -0400
Subject: Tools For UFO Research


 >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 04:19:03 -0800
 >Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux

 >How many other good, simple and doable ideas are lurking
 >out there? Maybe some of those should appear right
 >here instead of the usual bickering. Some fresh air for
 >a change.

Well, I think I can provide two such tools to assist the field
investigator and the UFO analyst. One is an evaluator prepared
by Terry Groff, trainee from MUFON, developed on the Ballester-
Guasp system to estimate the Certainty Index of a UFO report.
See these two items:

http://www.terrygroff.com/mufon/eval/

http://www.terrygroff.com/mufon/eval/Investigative_Tools.html

Another is a calculator (also devised by T. Groff) to estimate
the possible dimensions of an object in the air. See this url:

http://www.terrygroff.com/mufon/size/index.html

If other colleagues can contribute similar tools, this would
form a pool to aid the community of researchers.

Best wishes,

V-J








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                              Request For Info

From: Tim Edwards <tedwards@wiredog.com>
Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 05:10:42 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 22:53:38 -0400
Subject: Request For Info


I thought this forum would be the best place to receive reviews,
comments, and/or opinions of the following texts I just
acquired.

Witnessed - The True Story of the Brooklyn Bridge UFO Abductions

by Bud Hopkins
c. 1996 (Pocket Books: Mass Market Paperback)


and

We Are Not Alone - The Search for Intelligent Life on Other
Worlds

(New Revised Edition)
by Walter Sullivan
C. 1964-66  (Hardcover: McGraw Hill)

I would appreciate any comments on these two, which could assist
in rating their 'importance and/or relevance' for future reading
(I already have a substantial list waiting to be read, and as it
says below... seems there's 'so little time' for everything
anymore!).

--
*So much to learn and so little time!*

DreamScape
http://tedwards.topcities.com/dreamscape.htm







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                   French Researcher Hunts For Chupacabras

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net>
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 08:34:53 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 22:56:34 -0400
Subject: French Researcher Hunts For Chupacabras


Argentina: French Researcher Hunts for Chupacabras

SOURCE: El Tribuno Digital (Argentina)
DATE: April 6, 2003

IN CACHI, A FRENCH RESEARCHER TRACKS THE MYTHIC BEAT
Juan Antonio Abarzua-El Tribuno


An investigation into the presence of the Chupacabras, the
mythic bloodsucking beast that apparently devastated sheep, goat
and camelid cattle of the Chalchaqui valleys last years was
undertaken by French journalist Jean Jacques Maridel, a writer
for the prestigious Geo magazine, an equivalent to the U.S.
National Geograpic Magazine, and which is known in Spanish as
Geo-Mundo.

Beyond the search for the evidence leading to the existence of
this beast - an unfriendly type that avails itself of the cover
of darkness to drain its victims of blood - Mandel wants to
delve into the roots of the matter and determine if the numerous
claims presented by witnesses and affected parties respond to a
collective psychosis based on ancestral legends and beliefs or
if they are popular ways to escape from crisis, or a way of
escaping the uniformity imposed by globalization.

The author has presented numerous reports on fantastic cases in
different parts of the planet, especially in those in which
ancient cultures are intermixed with underdevelopment and
capitalist consumer society.

It was thus that in late December 2001 he reported an
extraordinary case which occurred in New Delhi, India's capital
city: the appearance of a savage "ape man" who terrrorized the 5
million inhabitents of the most populous suburb of this city, in
a country where its one billion inhabitants speak 18 languages,
have four official religions, hundreds of unacknowledged sects
and whose history is not only startling but incomprehensible to
Westerners.

"This dwelling center, made up of countless buildings, houses,
shacks, shanties and separated from one another by their
inhabitants' breath, built of solid materials, paper, carboard,
tin and any other element, is occupied by workers who put in 14
hours a day in hundreds of auto parts and toy factories, under
temperatures which seldom fall below 100 degrees.

It is for this reason - says the Parisian journalist - that they
sleep on open terraces and the breathing, snoring and moaning of
each person invades the other's privacy, becoming familiar even
among strangers. One night, a man woke up his entire block, and
those in turn wakened others, when he shouted that "a monkey
man" had invaded his precarious shelter..

A commotion soon occured among the clustering: the police
arrived, alerted by the scandal, whch spread like oil on water
and resulting in a tumult that left three dead, hundreds injured
and millions of men, women and children gripped by panic."

The full description of this experience - retold in great detail
in GEO - is fascinating: "The witness ot this unusual apparition
was questioned at the police station and made a specific
description of the monkey man - a simian head, motorcycle
helmet, snow goggles and spiral springs under its hairy legs,
required to leap from one rooftop to another. The story was
picked up by TV, the psychosis increased, and the police went
mad.

At this point, the authorities offered a thousand dollar reward
to anyone obtaining data or providing positive identification of
the beast. Gangs of armed hunters emerged, who wound up fighting
each other (a thousand dollars in India equals one hundred
thousand in Europe), private security companies patrolled the
streets night and day, and every day there were new reports of
the creature. Thousands of sacred monkeys were sacrificed and
countless merchants profited by selling merchandise related to
the improbable being.

Law enforcement, faced with the events and the blood streaming
down the streets of the shantytowns, and under the influence of
its own members, got carried away. The creation of a 1200-man
task force with the sole purpose of capturing the monkey man,
something they obviously never achieved, was mandated.

The psychosis lasted three violent months and the case was
finally closed by a court order which ascribed the entire
situation to "mass hysteria". Mandel smiles when he recalls his
investigation. "Indian analysts drew exotic conclusions: they
attributed the situation to an intelligence operation
perpetrated by its archenemy, Pakistan, and there were even
those who believed that scientists in Islamabad had created a
remotely-guided cyborg with the purpose of undermining the
morale of its antagonists in Dehli.

"I have my own theory," he states."It was a chance circumstance
was triggered by an ancient legend of Hindu mythology."

=====================================================

Translation (C) 2003 Scott Corrales Institute of Hispanic
Ufology
Special thanks to Mercedes Casas






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                        Re: Filer's Files #14 -- 2003

From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk>
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 15:01:51 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 23:07:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #14 -- 2003


 >From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 09:48:25 -0500
 >Subject: Filer's Files #14 -- 2003

 >FILER'S FILES #14 -- 2003 Skywatch Investigations.
 >George A. Filer, Director Mutual UFO Network Eastern
 >April 2, 2003,  Majorstar@aol.com Webmaster: Chuck
 >Warren -- My website is at: http://www.georgefiler.com
 >Sponsored by:  http://www.filer.unfranchise.com

<snip>

 >TELEVISION UFO TRACKING DETECTOR

<snip>

 >Editor's Note: The tremendous propulsion systems of the UFOs
 >have the power generating capability equivalent to an average
 >electrical power station. UFO's are known to effect radios,
 >various electronic equipment, and compasses to a varying degree.
 >The equipment will often change radio frequency, change the
 >compass direction, create odd noises and cause the equipment act
 >up in various ways. Often batteries or lights will drain of
 >power and stop functioning. There are also numerous reports of
 >aircraft in struments malfunctioning, cars stopping, and homes
 >literally shaking as the UFOs pass over. Unusual animal behavior
 >is also frequently noticed.

Are you serious, George? I thought the article was an April
Fools day joke?

All that a TV set up as described will detect is things like
passing taxis, CB'ers, faulty microwaves, electric razors/hedge
trimmers/drills etc and possibly police cars, fire engines, and
ambulances using their radio. If UFO pilots use similar radio
equipment, I suppose you could detect them as well, but how
would you know the difference? (and I haven't come across
reports of aliens shaving or trimming hedges recently!).


Regards,

Joe








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              Javascript Report Evaluator & UFO Size Estimator

From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 13:46:35 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 23:18:45 -0400
Subject: Javascript Report Evaluator & UFO Size Estimator


Hi I'm new to this List.

I want to introduce you to a couple of javascript tools I've
been working on.

The first is an Investigator's Report Evaluator based on the
Ballestor-Guasp method as published in the MUFON Field
Investigators Manual. You may have seen this mentioned in the
February 2003 issue of the MUFON UFO Journal. This tool provides
a simple method for computing the "Certainty Index" of a report
by merely selecting criteria from dropdown menus. It works it
all major browsers tested (IE5+, NS4+, Opera5+, AOL and others.)

You can find this tool at:

http://www.terrygroff.com/mufon/eval/index.html.

Please read the fine article written by Todd Lemire of Michigan
MUFON at:

http://www.terrygroff.com/mufon/eval/Investigative_Tools.html

The second tool which is still under construction is a
javascript UFO Size Estimator. I welcome all visitors to offer
suggestions and point out errors. It uses the UFO/Moon
relationship to estimate the size. It comes with a chart of
sizes and some comparative moon images. The witness merely picks
the silhouette closest to the apparent size of the object. This
value combined with the estimated distance of the object and its
angle of elevation will give a "ballpark" value as to the size
of the object. Visit it at:

http://www.terrygroff.com/mufon/size/index.html

V-J Ballestor Olmos has visited the site and was very pleased
with the evaluator. Please follow his lead and sign my visitors
log.


Thank you

Terry Groff
http://www.terrygroff.com/mufon/







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               Re: For The Military Conspiracy People - Hebert

From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com>
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 15:09:44 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 23:22:13 -0400
Subject: Re: For The Military Conspiracy People - Hebert


 >From: Tom King <tomking2030@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 21:48:04 +0000
 >Subject: For The Military Conspiracy People

 >For all you people on this list that believe all UFOS are just
 >U.S. military Pysops test on the planet. IE... 3-13-97 boomerang
 >was hologram or blimp etc...

Ok, Tom, I'll bite (I was asked these same questions recently in
what I thought was a private conversation with someone else,
hmmm).

First, I don't think "all" UFOs are U.S. military psyops tests.
Some UFOs could be secret military projects and some could be
something else. And, I am not into conspiracies. To deny that
*some* (not all) UFOs could be misidentifications of secret
military technologies is to live in a fantasy world.

Second, I doubt holograms are used that much and I don't think
they were used during the 3-13-97 events in the Phoenix area. As
for flying craft described as "boomerangs", "black triangles",
"V shaped", etc. - yes, I think some of these are stealth
military aircraft and much more than mere blimps (IMHO).

 >Can you please explain why our recent wars in Afghanistan and
 >Iraq are not using this technology? Many peoples lives are on
 >the line and were is this supreme technology to help save lives?

Tom, how do you know they are _not_* using secret projects in
Afghanistan and Iraq?

Do you really think you would see color photographs and videos
of these secret projects broadcast on the evening news or on the
front page of your local newspaper? I can just see the
headlines..."Secret Stealth Delta's Clear The Way For Troops",
or "Special Forces Land On Saddam's Palace In Vtol Black Project
Aircraft".

The whole idea is to keep them virtually invisible not only to
radar and visual surveillance but also to the press. Saddam and
his military advisors watch CNN too. You don't show your enemy
what you have up your sleeve just because Mr. King in the States
believes he has a "need to know".

 >Were is 'Bubba' flying over Iraq sending live video to Centcom?
 >Instead we have the predator flying in circles.

You think _this_ is all we have? You don't seem to know much
about UAV's, MAV's and military technologies. If 'Bubba' were
flying over Iraq sending live video, do you really think we'd be
told the true source of the images (if they don't want us and
Saddam to know)?

 >Were is all this hologram technology you preach about? How come
 >they don't use it on the enemy but they use it over our major
 >cities? I think if we had holograms that can fool 1,000 people
 >into seeing a massive UFO we would use it to make people believe
 >they are see the devil or something to scare the hell out of
 >them.

Who is preaching about hologram technology? What's this about
holograms that can fool 1,000 people? Though the technology
exists I doubt it was used to fool the "1,000 people" as you
suggest.

 >People say most of the UFOs we see are from Area 51 and we have
 >a bunch of these disc. I don't understand why we have
 >helicopters getting shot down when the military conspiracy
 >people say we have discs.

Ahh, so those who study UFO sightings from all directions
including possible tests of military technologies are "military
conspiracy people"? Good tactic! Label and disable.

One thing about helicopters, they serve their purpose and come
in handy in war. If you are waiting to see secret technologies
that may be deployed in Afghanistan and Iraq instead of
conventional aircraft and landcraft, you may have a long wait.
They are more likely deployed under the cover of night, with no
lights (if they don't want to be seen) and not visible to the
press or the enemy. They are probably top of the line and rarely
shot down (unlike the Predator). And even if they came down,
they would probably have self-destruct mechanisms that wouldn't
leave much to identify, back-engineer or report in the news. And
if these secret projects were observed, they would be labeled
"UFOs" and relegated to the fringe. One thing about UFO
believers....;>

Considering that Iraq covers an area of approximately 437,393
square kilometers and as of April 5th, barely two and a half
weeks into the war, our troops are already surrounding Baghdad
with only 79 US and 27 British casualties, let's not forget the
many unsung heroes who lead covert missions (with covert
technologies) not reported by the news or the Pentagon. They may
be responsible for saving more lives than you realize or care to
acknowledge.


A. Hebert







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                 CI: New Animation Highlights Cydonia 'Urban

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 13:25:21 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 23:23:22 -0400
Subject: CI: New Animation Highlights Cydonia 'Urban


Cydonian Imperative
4-7-03

New Animation Highlights Cydonia "Urban Substrate"
by Mac Tonnies

See: http://mactonnies.com/cydonia.html (page 37)


Related links:

http://www.newfrontiersinscience.com/cydoniacontroversy/updates/secondTHEMIS/sec
ondTHEMIS.shtml


http://www.mactonnies.com/imperative34.html

In the online journal New Frontiers in Science, Mark Carlotto
examines a conspicuous collection of eroded fragments that form
a coherent "square" most unlike the disordered local topology.
Coincidentally (?), this assortment is located along an axis
that intersects both the Face and the D&M Pyramid.

"In particular, several rectangular arrangements can be seen,"
writes Carlotto. "Some of these arrangements are aligned, more
or less, in the direction of the crustal dichotomy in this part
of Mars. On Earth, in the Middle East for example, it would
certainly be seen as a possible archaeological site. But it is
on Mars."

[image]

Anaglyphic image courtesy Mark Carlotto.

Clayton Spencer Ireland, working independently, has identified
the same curious feature and has highlighted it in a GIF
animation, revealing a high level of internal symmetry (below).

[image]

Image courtesy Clayton Spencer Ireland.

The "Urban Substrate," whatever it is, adds yet another level of
enigma to the Cydonia region and deserves a very close look by
future spacecraft.

-end-







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                          Mystery Of Gobbler's Rock

From: Kelly Peterborough <kellymcg@attcanada.ca>
Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 17:39:25 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 23:28:16 -0400
Subject: Mystery Of Gobbler's Rock


Source: The Indianapolis Star

http://www.indystar.com/print/articles/8/033513-3318-108.html

The mystery of Gobbler's Rock

Yellowwood State Forest visitors are mystified by the large rocks
perched high in several trees.

"Gobbler's Rock," so named because a turkey-hunter found it, was the
first boulder-in-a-tree reported. -- Charlie Nye / staff photo

By George McLaren
george.mclaren@indystar.com
April 4, 2003

NASHVILLE, Ind. -- Rocks and trees are natural sights in the
forest.

But there's definitely something unnatural going on in
Yellowwood State Forest.

Somehow, large boulders have found their way to the tops of tall
trees and gotten wedged among the branches. There are at least
three, maybe five, maybe more.

The first was discovered a few years ago and was dubbed
Gobbler's Rock, because it was found by a turkey hunter scouting
in a remote area of the 23,000-acre forest.

Since then, curious hikers have worn a path to the 80-foot-tall
chestnut oak tree. High in a fork in its branches, nearly 30
feet off the ground, a massive slab of sandstone is nestled. The
triangular rock, perhaps 4 feet wide and a foot thick, is
estimated to weigh about 400 pounds.

The boulder itself isn't that unusual. It's the where -- not to
mention the how -- that makes it so intriguing.

About five miles away, on the banks of Plum Creek, sandstone
boulders are wedged in the upper branches of two tall sycamores
100 yards apart. One boulder is nearly 45 feet off the ground;
both rocks appear to weigh about 200 pounds.

And a local hiker says there are two more in yet another part of
the forest.

Carol Carr, 58, of Edinburgh, had visited Gobbler's Rock. Then a
friend led her to the two sycamores, in a remote, seldom-visited
part of Yellowwood southwest of Helmsburg.

One day, Carr was hiking with an acquaintance in a different
area of the forest, on a ridge near Yellowwood Lake.

"We just wanted to go down and see the creek. All of a sudden,
there's two more (boulders in trees) by the creek," Carr
recalled.

What in the world is going on?

Theories range from engineering students working on a class
project to fraternity boys with too much time on their hands, to
tornadoes or high winds or floods or dynamite demolition gone
awry.

Or UFOs.

Don't snicker. This story has "other world" written all over it.

The boulder-topped trees are up to a half-mile from the nearest
road access, in remote areas of the state forest, miles apart.
There's no apparent reason why the locations were picked, no
damage to the trees, and no signs of any type of heavy equipment
having been used to hoist the heavy rocks.

In fact, there's no signs of anything.

Except the boulders.

"You know 'Signs' (the movie) . . . Instead of crop signs, we've
got tree 'signs,' " said Brenda Stine, a state forest employee
at Yellowwood.

She was kidding. We think.

In fact, the bizarre rock case is highlighted at abduct.com, a
UFO-related Web site. Go to http://abduct.com/taylor/lt58.htm
and scroll down.

The Web site (which offers a new book for sale: "Healing the
Hurt of Alien Abduction") posts a few comments from a UFO
investigator about Gobbler's Rock. Included in a list of topics
such as "Alien Mark Appears on Woman" and "Dogs Under Attack
 From UFOs," the Web site ponders this question:

Did a UFO put a boulder in this tree?

"If the rock was blown into the tree, why isn't there some sign
of damage to the bark? It had to be gently rested in the
branches, I would think, but by what?" the investigator asks.

Brown County Sheriff Buck Stogsdill laughed nervously when asked
about the prospect of UFOs operating in his county.

"That's one of those . . . How can you answer that?" Stogsdill
replied, avoiding a direct answer.

Stogsdill said a law officer was dispatched to investigate a few
years ago when Gobbler's Rock was discovered. "There really
wasn't much to do," he admitted. "Just look at it and try to
figure it out."

They couldn't.

No one yet has been able to solve the boulder mystery.

The rocks may have originated near the trees, because sandstone
boulders are scattered around the forest and the trees are a
considerable distance from the nearest roadway.

Yellowwood officials say many people have claimed credit for
Gobbler's Rock -- casting doubt on all the claims.

"Maybe it's some kind of club that goes around putting rocks in
trees and they have a little dinner celebration afterward. I've
heard that rumor," said Jim Allen, Yellowwood property manager.
"Or it could be some college kids that don't have anything
better to do."

Some have wondered if a boulder had been placed in the tree
years ago, and had risen as the tree grew. But trees don't grow
that way. The boulders must have been placed high in the trees
after their trunks were sturdy enough to support them.

"You could use a block and tackle, I suppose," Allen said,
referring to a rope-and-pulley system.

The fact that there are at least three boulders, possibly five
or more, diminishes the likelihood of a weird tornado incident.
Plus, there's no sign of wind damage to surrounding trees. And
no one remembers any mishaps involving dynamite anywhere nearby.

For now, the Unexplained Resting Boulders (URBs) are being left
alone by forest officials. But Allen says workers may be forced
to bring them down if too many are lifted up. He doesn't want
somebody to get hurt while hoisting a 300-pound boulder 40 feet
into a tree.

"I would prefer this go away because of the liability issues,"
Allen said. "I try not to encourage stories."

The government may not want you to know about the URBs. But
we're telling you anyway.

Because, well, the truth is out there.

Somebody, possibly with a few friends, has the answer.

"It's kind of a mystery of who and how," said Sheriff Stogsdill.

"And why. That's another one. Why?"

----

What's up?

State officials are at a loss to explain how several boulders
have found their way to the tops of tall trees in Yellowwood
State Forest in Brown County.

Here's how to find them:

The Yellowwood State Forest office (1-812-988-7945) has maps
showing the general location of Gobbler's Rock. To reach the
office, travel west of Nashville on Ind. 46. After about five
miles, turn north on Yellowwood Road and follow the signs.

To reach Gobbler's Rock, head north on Yellowwood Lake Road from
the office about three miles, and then turn west on Lanam Ridge
Road. Turn left onto Ind. 45, and then quickly turn left (south)
on Tulip Tree Road. Follow this gravel road about two miles, and
park in a small pull-off near the gate.

 From this point, having a compass is suggested. Continue walking
south about a half-mile, and look for a cleared, grassy area on
the left. Look for an old logging path that leads east from the
cleared area, and follow it east and south. Gobbler's Rock is
high on a south-facing slope overlooking a ravine. (GPS
coordinates: N39 12.204, W86 21.955)

- To find two other rocks:

 From the Yellowwood Forest office, travel north on Yellowwood
Lake Road about three miles. Turn right (east) on Lanam Ridge
Road. Follow the road about three miles, and turn west on
Dollsberry Lane (it's about a mile south of Helmsburg). Follow
the gravel road until it ends; park in a small parking area on
the south side of the roadway.

 From this point, a compass is required; there is no marked trail
or path, and underbrush in some areas is thick. Follow the old
roadway west, and then southwest. South of the pond (which is on
private property), you must bushwhack southwest to Plum Creek,
then follow the creek as it meanders west. The two sycamores
holding rocks are on the north creek bank, about a third of a
mile west-southwest from the parking area. The trees are about
100 yards apart, but not visible from each other. (GPS
coordinates: N39 14.986, W86 18.492; N39 14.984, W8618.560)

Be sure to note landmarks while hiking in to assist you in finding your
way out.







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   Apr > Apr 6

               Re: For The Military Conspiracy People - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 19:01:38 -0300
Fwd Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 23:30:18 -0400
Subject: Re: For The Military Conspiracy People - Ledger


 >From: Tom King <tomking2030@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 21:48:04 +0000
 >Subject: For The Military Conspiracy People


 >For all you people on this list that believe all UFOS are
 >just U.S. military Pysops test on the planet. IE... 3-13-97
 >boomerang was hologram or blimp etc...

 >Can you please explain why our recent wars in Afghanistan and
 >Iraq are not using this technology? Many peoples lives are
 >on the line and were is this supreme technology to help save
 >lives?

 >Were is 'Bubba' flying over Iraq sending live video to
 >Centcom? Instead we have the predator flying in circles.

 >Were is all this hologram technology you preach about? How
 >come they don't use it on the enemy but they use it over our
 >major cities? I think if we had holograms that can fool 1,000
 >people into seeing a massive UFO we would use it to make
 >people believe they are see the devil or something to scare
 >the hell out of them.

 >People say most of the UFOs we see are from Area 51 and we
 >have a bunch of these disc. I don't understand why we have
 >helicopters getting shot down when the military conspiracy
 >people say we have discs.



Hi Tom and Listers,

I've been resisting this interpretation for UFOs for some time.
And you raise an interesting point. No doubt you will hear
explanations like, the US doesn't want to reveal these "craft"
as they are saving them for something really special and don't
want to lose the element of surprise. Mind you this is despite
the fact that they apparently have been showing them off over
towns and cities all over the world.

Or that these craft are still in the testing stage and not ready
for deployment. Again they are still on display all over the
world in great numbers.

I've never been in that camp. Everything I've seen in the way of
evolving technology for the United States and other countries
with the latest technology, is a direct application of the
refinements of conventional weaponry and aviation technology.
Even the latest vectoring thrust technology is an outgrowth of
technology used in the British Harrier.

The theory that this might be lighter than air technology has
been bandied about with little to support this contention. Again
what's the point of showing them off to the civilian populations
in towns and cites of the world.

Don Ledger






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   Apr > Apr 6

              Re: Greer Interview 'Free Energy Breakthrough' -

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 19:56:45 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 23:34:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Greer Interview 'Free Energy Breakthrough' -


 >From: Dave Haith <visions@ntlworld.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 12:15:19 -0000
 >Subject: Greer Interview 'Free Energy Breakthrough'

 >Well folks this is it!

 >Either this radio interview transcript with Dr Steven Greer of
 >the UFO Disclosure Project will prove:

 >1) A pivotal point in history and the answer to the world's
 >energy problems

 >2) Greer has been conned or tricked in some way

 >3) Greer is a trickster, a liar or insane.

 >If there's just a chance it's the first option, we could all do
 >with some good news right now, so this is worth a read.

 >Regards

 >Dave Haith
 >visions@ntlworld.com

 >-----

 >Source: Disclosure Project

 >http://www.disclosureproject.org/transcriptcoasttocoastJan312003.htm

 >Transcript of Dr. Steven Greer's Interview
 >on Coast to Coast AM Radio with George Noory
 >January 30/31 2003

 >George Noory's web site

 >Click Here to read some key excerpts of this transcript.

 >George Noory (GN): Tonight, this hour, we're going to talk about
 >Zero Point Energy. Welcome, Dr. Greer. How are you today?

 >Steven Greer (SG): I'm fine, thank you. How are you?

 >GN: Good. Always a pleasure. Zero Point Energy. Is there an
 >organization or an individual actually working on this?

 >SG: Well, we are of course. I'm not so sure it's really zero
 >point energy. Some would say it's the quantum vacuum flux field
 >energy. There are a lot of people with different theories about
 >it. But as you know, we have formed a group called Space Energy
 >Access Systems, which is a company that is in the process of
 >identifying and testing technologies, machines, devices that
 >claim to - put simply - put out more energy and electric power
 >than we have to put into it, which of course, supposedly cannot
 >be done, but in fact it can be. The reason I'm speaking with you
 >tonight is that we have apparently - and I'm going to qualify my
 >words very carefully here --

 >GN: OK

 >SG: But it appears that we have found such a "Holy Grail"-type
 >device, a very serious invention held by an inventor. My
 >scientific advisor and the board of directors of this group -
 >our group - have recently done an onsite inspection and testing
 >of this system and I can tell you that, except for some of the
 >extraterrestrial devices in UFOs that I've seen, this is the
 >most astounding material object I've ever seen in my life. And
 >that's saying something.

 >So the reason I am speaking about this at this very early stage
 >of its discovery is that the millions of people listening
 >tonight are our protection. Those of you who are listening to
 >this should tell everyone they know that this is a thing coming
 >down the path. It is our intention to protect this system, get
 >it tested, get it perfected, get it out to the public and
 >terminate the need for gas and oil and coal and start an
 >entirely new sustainable civilization on this planet, and that
 >is long overdue.

<snip>

 >If the testing and development of this holds up, it will be the
 >single most important scientific breakthrough in the history -
 >the recorded history - of the human race, and that is not an
 >overstatement.

 >Let me describe what I saw, if you have a moment.

 >GN: Sure, and tell me how big it is, Steven.

 >SG: It's not very big at all! I picked it up - you can pick it
 >up with one hand. Took it out actually on a sidewalk. This
 >device gathered, very passively, less than one watt of power
 >from the environment - I won't say how it was done, I'm not
 >allowed to at this point - and the machine started up. It
 >generated hundreds of watts of power in usable form, actually
 >running, and we were astonished to see this. We hooked this up
 >ourselves, so it was no mystery about it. We even selected the
 >things to hook up to this thing. It ran a 300-watt light bulb, a
 >100-watt light bulb, a stereo and an oscillating fan with an
 >electric motor, all at the same time with literally no
 >artificial manmade input of power. So, this is of course an
 >extraordinary scientific breakthrough. The inventor certainly
 >deserves to get the next Nobel prize, or the one that would be
 >awarded after this is fully tested by the scientific community,
 >if indeed what we see holds up.

<snip>

Okay folks:

My question is obvious. Did the technology 'hold up' to
scrutiny? Its been over two months since that interview, and I
have heard exactly nothing from Dr. Greer about this
'extraordinary scientific breakthrough'.

With gasoline over $2 a gallon, you would think this would be
major headlines everywhere.

All the inventor has to do, is give the same demonstration of
the device before some qualified independent experts, that he
did for Greer, out on some sidewalk if that suits him, and the
deed is done. They can improve upon it later.

Where are the headlines? .. the scientific and technical journal
articles? ( Nobel prizes take longer. )

Instead there is this yawning silence. I visit a number of
science news websites, all quiet on that front too.

Here is the website for Greer's Space Energy Access Systems
company. You won't learn much there ..

http://www.seaspower.com/

Most papers, links etc. date back to 2002, although one non-
controversial NASA paper calling for new energy sources was
added as recently as 27 March 2003.

Under the link titled "Inventing in SEAS", I find this
statement.

" The Phase I investment is now closed. We thank everyone who
participated in this very successful stock offering."

So. Greer sold stock in this venture. I wonder if any federal
agencies took notice.

If anyone has heard more about the small electrical generator,
the one that works with little or no energy input, please let me
know.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch






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   Apr > Apr 7

                           Italian UFO TV Program

From: Philip Mantle <philip.mantle@eidosnet.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 12:59:30 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 11:42:31 -0400
Subject: Italian UFO TV Program


Dear Colleagues,

A friend of mine in Italy has recently been appointed as a
consultant on a prime time TV show to be broadcast in September
of this year. The show in question is looking for previously
made documentaries from overseas for possible use in this
series.

The series will cover a host of topics including:

UFOs
Psychic Phenomenon
Paranormal
Cryptozoology
Alternative History
Etc, etc.

My colleague has asked me if I can recommend any such
productions which must be of broadcast quality. Italian TV will
of course pay for the use of such material the details of which
are nothing to do with me.

I'd therefore respectfully like to ask if you have or know of
any such productions that might fir into this series to please
contact me direct at: philip.mantle@eidosnet.co.uk

Please feel free to forward this message on to any other
possible interested parties.


Many thanks,

Philip Mantle





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              Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 13:06:56 -0300
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 11:46:43 -0400
Subject: Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line - Ledger


 >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 23:42:22 +0000
 >Subject: Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line

 >>From: Geoff Richardson <geoff@fastdog.karoo.co.uk>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 20:14:12 +0100
 >>Subject: Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line

<snip>

 >>I would like to add to Nick's remarks regarding Ray Stanford's
 >>book - "A Socorro 'Saucer in a Pentagon Pantry'. I have
 >>obviously read quite a number of Ufology related books and Ray
 >>Stanford's "Socorro Saucer..." must rate amongst the best.

 >>Not just an example of detailed dedicated research but written
 >>in such a way that it will appeal to everyone interested in
 >>genuine Ufology.

 >>IMHO a classic.

 >Geoff,

 >Classic BS! Okay, I have bit my tongue until I drew blood, and
 >I have had enough.

 >Stanford's depiction of the alleged metallic physical trace
 >evidence was rebutted 20+ years ago, and I am horrified to see
 >him (like the Night of the Living Dead) rising up once again to
 >purvey his false version of what happened.

 >As I reported back in the 1970s, Stanford is the only one who
 >claims what he claims. Everyone at NICAP at the time, including
 >me and Walt Webb (who accompanied Stanford to the Goddard Space
 >Flight Center with the trace sample) say otherwise.


 >He badly wanted to believe that he had the ultimate physical
 >proof, but that is _not_ what the NASA analysis indicated. I am
 >prepared to go to the mat on this. Stanford's version of what
 >happened is riddled with factual errors and paranoid imaginings.


Hi Dick,

I read the book. It didn't come across as paranoid to me. Where
is that coming from? I note there was some concerns about the
way the metal scrapings were handled and then the refusal
afterwards of the scientist to talk to Ray Sanford about it. he
makes some valid claims about the trace metal findings which
rebut what the scientist at Goddard Space Flight Center found. I
hope this isn't going to degenerate into a turf war. Because I
for one am not interested.


Don Ledger






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   Apr > Apr 7

                       New Betty Hill Video Interview

From: Avis Ruffu <rrar8997@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 11:09:26 EDT
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 11:54:13 -0400
Subject: New Betty Hill Video Interview


[Non-subscriber Post]


Dear UFO UpDates:

I recently sat down with Betty and taped an interview. Betty not
only talks about her 1961 abduction but goes on to tell of her
continued sightings and communications with the aliens.

We've set-up a web page at:

Http://www.bettyhillvideo.com

With Betty's encouragement I took the video to production and
the results are ready for the public to view.


Sincerely,

Avis Ruffu







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   Apr > Apr 7

                          Secrecy News -- 04/07/03

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 11:09:16 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 11:56:56 -0400
Subject:  Secrecy News -- 04/07/03


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2003, Issue No. 30
April 7, 2003


**      TENET RESISTS INTELLIGENCE BUDGET DISCLOSURE
**      MORE BUDGET SECRECY
**      BEYOND THE BALANCING TEST
**      MORE ON CIA BIOTERRORISM WORKSHOP


TENET RESISTS INTELLIGENCE BUDGET DISCLOSURE

On the eve of war March 19, Director of Central Intelligence
George J. Tenet paused to sign a 28 page statement opposing
declassification of the Fiscal Year 2002 intelligence budget
total.

"I have determined... that the FY 2002 intelligence community
aggregate budget figure must be withheld because its disclosure
reasonably could be expected to cause serious damage to the
national security and would tend to reveal intelligence sources
and methods," DCI Tenet concluded.

The Tenet declaration was filed in D.C. District Court on April
4 as part of a government motion to dismiss a Federation of
American Scientists lawsuit to compel release of the 2002 budget
figure. The government motion and the Tenet declaration may be
found here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/foia/2002/index.html

Ordinarily, this would be the end of the matter, since Freedom
of Information Act case law in the D.C. District generally
dictates that courts defer to agency heads such as the Director
of Central Intelligence in disputes over national security
information. There is, however, an exception to this rule for
"contrary record evidence" or "evidence of agency bad faith."

In this case, there is evidence that DCI Tenet has grossly
misrepresented the significance of the aggregate budget total.
Briefly put, the aggregate figure is an artificial construct
that has no intelligence significance or sensitivity whatsoever.
It is a composite of several distinct budget categories (i.e.,
NFIP, JMIP and TIARA) that are independently generated,
authorized and appropriated. As a result, its disclosure could
have no adverse consequences on national security or
intelligence sources and methods, as the declassification of the
1997 and 1998 budget totals demonstrated in practice.

Evidence to rebut the DCI's declaration will be presented in a
reply to the government motion that is due on May 5.


MORE BUDGET SECRECY

The Bush Administration is audaciously pushing budget secrecy
into new precincts of the congressional appropriations process
where it had previously been unheard of.

"In what members said was an unprecedented move, Bush asked for
the $2.5 billion [postwar Iraq] reconstruction fund to be
appropriated to the White House itself," the Washington Post
reported. "A memo prepared by senior GOP staff for the House
Appropriations Committee noted that the arrangement would erect
a 'wall of executive privilege [that] would deny Congress and
the Committee access to the management of the Fund. Decision-
makers determining the allocation . . . could not be called as
witnesses before hearings, and most fiscal data would be beyond
the Committee's reach'."

See "U.S. Plan For Iraq's Future Is Challenged: Pentagon
Control, Secrecy Questioned," by Karen DeYoung and Dan Morgan,
Washington Post, April 6:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A37417-2003Apr5.html

Meanwhile, routine budget justification documents are being
inexplicably withheld from congressional appropriators,
provoking anger even among Republican lawmakers who are
sympathetic to the Administration.

Last week, Rep. Harold Rogers (R-KY) abruptly adjourned a
hearing of a House Appropriations Subcommittee because the
requisite documents had not been delivered, Jim McGee reported
in CQ Homeland Security, published by Congressional Quarterly,
on April 4.

"The unusual display of resentment by Rogers, a respected
Republican loyalist who takes pride in his congenial but
businesslike review of agency budgets, brought to the surface
weeks of tension on Capitol Hill over the legislative tactics of
the Bush Administration," Mr. McGee wrote.

"We need those [budget] justifications to perform our
Constitutional duty," said Rep. Rogers before terminating the
hearing.


BEYOND THE BALANCING TEST

Tom Blanton, director of the National Security Archive, presents
a first-rate account of the recent evolution of government
secrecy and the challenges of the present moment in a new paper
entitled "Beyond the Balancing Test: National Security and Open
Government in the United States."

The 41 page paper synthesizes a whole bookshelf's worth of
history and analysis of official secrecy, provides a cutting
critique of Bush Administration policy, and concludes with an
argument that openness is not something to be contrasted and
"balanced" with security. Rather, Blanton contends, "openness is
security." It is often literally true, he explains, that
openness succeeds where secrecy fails in mitigating or
eliminating a threat.

The new paper, which was prepared for a May 5 symposium on
National Security and Open Government, is posted here:

http://www.maxwell.syr.edu/campbell/opengov/Blanton.pdf

The National Security Archive was recently awarded a jaw-dropping
one million dollar grant from the John S. and James L. Knight
Foundation (which also funds the FAS Project on Government
Secrecy and other freedom of information advocacy initiatives).

The free flow of information is "important to an understanding
of world events," according to a March 19 Knight Foundation news
release. "Toward that end, the foundation has given $1 million
to the National Security Archive Fund, to encourage federal
agencies to maintain standards of openness." It may be the
largest grant ever awarded for such activity and reflects the
high regard in which the organization's work is held.


MORE ON CIA BIOTERRORISM WORKSHOP

The dustup described in Secrecy News on April 2 over whether the
final report of an unclassified CIA-sponsored workshop on
bioterrorism would be classified is fleshed out with some
attributed quotes and further background information by Peg
Brickley in The Scientist online today.

See "CIA openness report to be classified?" here:

http://www.biomedcentral.com/news/20030407/03



_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:  www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email: saftergood@fas.org
voice: (202) 454-4691







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   Apr > Apr 7

                        Re: Request For Info - Sandow

From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 11:27:16 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 11:58:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Request For Info - Sandow


 >From: Tim Edwards <tedwards@wiredog.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 05:10:42 -0400
 >Subject: Request For Info

 >I thought this forum would be the best place to receive reviews,
 >comments, and/or opinions of the following texts I just
 >acquired.

 >Witnessed - The True Story of the Brooklyn Bridge UFO Abductions

 >by Bud Hopkins
 >c. 1996 (Pocket Books: Mass Market Paperback)

 >and

 >We Are Not Alone - The Search for Intelligent Life on Other
 >Worlds

 >(New Revised Edition)
 >by Walter Sullivan
 >C. 1964-66 (Hardcover: McGraw Hill)

The Sullivan book is very old. I don't think it represents
current thinking on its subject.

You'll get many opinions about "Witnessed," some of them very
strongly negative.

Some years ago I wrote a long evaluation of the case it
describes, for IUR, the publication of the Center for UFO
Research. You can find that evaluation on my website,
www.gregsandow.com/ufo. Perhaps it will help you decide whether
to read the book. Certainly the book describes a well-known and
controversial abduction case. Some people think it's utter
nonsense, others take it seriously.


Greg Sandow







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                        CFI-Podesta/Mattoon Follow-Up

From: John <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 11:34:10 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 12:03:55 -0400
Subject: CFI-Podesta/Mattoon Follow-Up


Hello All,

I received the following message from Ted Roe of NARCAP in
reference to the issues that were raised last month about how
and why CFI and Podesta/Mattoon had chosen the Kecksburg case to
go to the government with. Ted, Jan Aldrich, EBK and myself
conducted a dialog on 'Strange Days... Indeed' where Ted stated
that he was going to post a formal invitation for ufologists to
submit cases for consideration and possible inclusion in the
government inquiry process that has been initiated by CFI.

Instead of posting the invitation himself (as a board member of
CFI,) he sent me this brief paragraph below that I 'assume' I am
supposed to post on his behalf. So here it is...

for what it's worth.


From: Ted Roe

 >Hi John,

 >I prepared an invitation but in the process I found myself facing
 >a simple issue of redundency because the contact info for Ed, Larry
 >and Leslie are on the CFI website. All three have assured me that
 >they answer their email, and that has been my experience. As CFI
 >is a coalition of various groups arranged somewhat informally, it
 >is to be expected that there is free discussion about a variety of
 >issues including research topics and courses of action.

 >However, if a more direct invitation to the UFO community is still
 >necessary, let me know how this sounds:

 >An Open Invitation to the UFO research community:

 >If you are interested in assisting the Coalition for Freedom of
 >Information (CFI) with its stated goals of gaining credibility in the
 >public discourse regarding unidentified aerial phenomena please
 >forward your ideas, suggestions and commentary to either Ed
 >Rothschild, Larry Landsman, Leslie Kean, through the contact
 >points listed at www.freedomofinfo.org or contact Ted Roe at
 >magicalnexus@hotmail.com

 >Is this along the lines of what you were looking for?

My answer to his last question is an emphatic, NO!

Ed Rothschild, Larry Landsman and Leslie Kean are not ufologists
and none of them are qualified to evaluate any of the research
material that may be submitted to them. That's how we got
'stuck' with Kecksburg to begin with!

Hey, it's _their_ money and their time and they can blow it any
way they want to. The problem is, it is _all_ of ufology that
will take the black-eye if their attempt to get information from
the government about Kecksburg fails.

I'm sick and tired of being jerked around, the politics and head
games. Bottom line? The Sci-Fi channel _already_ has a
'Kecksburg Special' in the works.

What does that tell you about their 'real' agenda?

Stan Gordon, who has always been the biggest (if not the only)
proponent of the Kecksburg case has been deeply involved with
CFI from the beginning.

Berliner of FUFOR isn't going to 'rock the boat' by questioning
the selection of the Kecksburg case because he is only concerned
with maintaining his 'exclusive' relationship to CFI and the
Sci-Fi channel. (The money)

It's no wonder to me why submissions of case material from any
other ufologists was never solicited or even considered.

The whole thing smells.

This is my last word on any of this. I refuse to have anything
to do with giving the Sci-Fi channel any more free publicity on
this List or on SDI for their Kecksburg special. Which I hope
nobody watches - in protest.

Good luck Ed, Larry, and Leslie. I hope Kecksburg turns out to
be an actual UFO case after all. If not... you will have given
ufology a black-eye that it may not recover from. As for FUFOR,
MUFON and CUFOS... if you ever find you balls, you might want to
tell Ed, Larry and Leslie that there are much stronger/better
UFO cases that they could be approaching the government with.

What a waste of resources and energy.


John Velez
Pissed-off UFO witness







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   Apr > Apr 7

                    Re: Mystery Of Gobbler's Rock - Groff

From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 11:02:58 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 12:09:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Mystery Of Gobbler's Rock - Groff


 >From: Kelly Peterborough <kellymcg@attcanada.ca>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 17:39:25 -0400
 >Subject: The Mystery Of Gobbler's Rock

 >Source: The Indianapolis Star

 >http://www.indystar.com/print/articles/8/033513-3318-108.html

 >The mystery of Gobbler's Rock

 >Yellowwood State Forest visitors are mystified by the large rocks
 >perched high in several trees.

Can anyone think of a mechanism whereby the boulders were lifted
as the trees grew?

Suppose these boulders had been carried to their locations by a
flood landing them on top of some young but hearty trees. The
trees, though partly crushed, continued to grow, lifting the
boulders in the process.

Could an examination of the trees reveal whether they had had
damage at a young age?

Are there other boulders in the area of comparable size that
missed landing on other trees or perhaps killed the ones they
did land on, but would indicate that perhaps an earlier flood
had occurred?

Just some thoughts.


Terry

http://www.terrygroff.com/mufon/








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                    Boylan, Rodwell and Innocent Children

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 12:16:02 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 16:23:57 -0400
Subject: Boylan, Rodwell and Innocent Children


Hi All,

I don't know how many of you had a chance to listen to Saturday
night's broadcast of Strange Days... Indeed. Apparently Richard
Boylan (of hot-tub fame) has now turned his ufological attention
on children. No wait, let me correct that... he has turned his
attention on 'Star-children.'

All I will say about Boylan is; go to the Google Search engine on
the Internet and type in the following phrase:

Richard Boylan Hot Tub

Enjoy the read if you can hold your lunch down while doing it.

The 'guest' on last Saturday's edition of SDI was author Mary
Rodwell. She has been motivated by Boylan's current work with
'Star children' to pursue the subject on her own with children
in Australia. These 'star-children' are (according to Boylan and
Rodwell) the current crop of UFO/alien contactees. The children
are 'ok' with the experiences according to Rodwell. It is only
the old fuddy-duddy 'abductees' that did not understand the true
nature of the abductions who viewed them as an intrusion
(violation) into their lives.

"These star-children exhibit psychic and telepathic abilities"
says Rodwell. "They are educating their parent's" she goes on.
One child told his parents that he thought it was cool to be
able to walk through walls. She went on and on like that all
through the interview.

I have to stop and ask at this point. Does anybody else think
that there is something _terribly_wrong_ about involving/
including children in abduction research? Does any one else see
the potential psychological and emotional damage that such
involvement (reinforcement) could have in the future for these
innocent, unsuspecting kids?

I became fully aware of the nature of my life-long involvement
in the abduction phenomenon at age 43. Even with all of the life
experience I had accumulated by middle-age it was still _the_
single most difficult thing I have ever had to deal with and to
have to integrate into my reality/world view. I consider myself
extremely lucky that I have not lost my mind or my balance in
the process.

To expect children to be able to cope with such a reality,
children who have not yet developed the tools and coping
mechanisms needed to properly integrate such a reality is not
only unreasonable, it is cruel and something I consider the very
height of irresponsibility.

The potential emotional and psychological damage that can result
from reinforcing such belief systems in children cannot be
measured or predicted. To me, exposing children to such a thing
is tantamount to abuse.

Others may consider this activity as 'benign' and not harmful to
the children involved. But I would suspect that they are people
who have never had any children themselves. I am certain however
that any one who has been a parent, who has loved, nurtured and
raised children to adulthood will see the danger in such
activity as clearly as I do.

Just my opinion.


John Velez
Parent/Grandparent/Abductee








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                   Re: UFO Spectro-Photography - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 12:23:59 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 16:28:01 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Spectro-Photography - Maccabee


 >From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 17:25:04 -0500
 >Subject: UFO Spectro-Photography [was: Phoenix Lights Redux]

 >>From: Joyce Aldrich-Halfin <solar_wind@rogers.com>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 22:48:47 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux

<snip>

 >In responding to your welcome suggestion for a list of take-
 >along equipment for the serious UFO researcher, let me divide
 >that into two postings. This first one will make some
 >suggestions about how to use a diffraction grating, optimally,
 >in photographing light spectra of anomalous areial objects or
 >phenomena:


Ray has presented information on the use of diffraction gratings
in taking UFO pictures. I would like to point out that Edmunds
Scientific can provide a "Star" grating that creates vertical
and horizontal diff patterns (as well as the central image) with
a grating period of about 200 lines per inch. These can be
calibrated in a particular camera by photographing (at some
distance) a laser pointer (red or another color) or by
photographing a distance mercury vapor (blue-green) or sodium
vapor (yellow) streetlight.








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   Apr > Apr 7

                     The Hunt For The Chupacabras Is On

From: Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <ufomiami@prodigy.net>
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 09:44:08 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 17:19:11 -0400
Subject: The Hunt For The Chupacabras Is On


The Hunt for the Chupacabras is On - Allegations of NASA
Offering a

Reward

 From Dr. Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo

Miami UFO Center

ufomiami@prodigy.net

4-6-3


The Miami UFO Center has learned that there has been reports of
several armed searches in various parts of Chile and Argentina
in order to find a humanoid creature believed to be the blood
predator known as "the chupacabras." Due to the severity of the
financial losses of farmers in light of recent animal
mutilations, the search parties not only consist of law
enforcement personnel, but angry civilian farmers are taking
part as well.

A group of farmers in Do=F1ihue, Chile, have begun a well-
  organized search since last Wednesday, after numerous reports
of dead farm animals began to horrify the entire town. According
to some villagers, the attacks have been so severe that they
have suffered great financial losses. The animal mutilations
believed to be caused by the alleged creature have been over two
hundred, including chickens and bovines.

Cristina Sald=EDa and Carmen Cort=E9s, two of the property owners
affected by the financial losses due to the animal mutilations
described the scene.

According to them, their dead chickens were completely dry. "The
carcasses appeared to be without a drop of blood in them," they
said. Many villagers believe the "bloody creature" might be
hiding in the local vineyards.

Some skeptics, including Veterinarian Jorge Troncoso, say the
animal deaths might actually be caused by an epidemic. Others
attribute the deaths to the usual "wild dogs" or mountain lions.
However, when these wild animals attack, they normally consume
their prey and not just suck their blood.

There was a particular group of farmers that were found setting
up traps for the alleged humanoid creature, and conducting night
search operations. These farmers and hunters say that they were
told by some individuals claiming to be "NASA personnel" in the
area that they would receive a million dollars if they capture a
chupacabras, dead or alive.

Another similar search operation has been taking place in the
neighboring country of Argentina, in the city of Rosario. Last
month, Judge Mario Dilascio from the Southern Judicial District
of Rosario ordered an intensive police search throughout the
city.

The search began in light of several police reports filed by
many of the local residents, many of them claiming of being
attacked by a humanoid creature in the wooded areas of the city.
However, this particular creature appeared to be significantly
larger than the one described as the "chupacabras." The alleged
beast appears to be the Argentine version of the Yeti, according
to many eyewitness descriptions. All the eyewitness testimonies
corroborate. They all mention a strange large creature, about
two meters tall, with long ears, shiny reddish eyes, strong and
powerful arms, and hands with long curved fingernails,
apparently as sharp as blades.

"We have gathered a great deal of eyewitness testimonies and
interviews with people that claim to have seen a large hairy
human-like creature, apparently very ferocious, and capable of
attacking human beings," said Police Chief Roque Far=EDas. "The
Province Magistrate has taken charge of the case. He has issued
us instructions to conduct two operational phases. Phase one
will basically consist in verifying the truthfulness and
validity of these eyewitness claims, as well as the actual
existence of the alleged creature.

Phase two will involve the actual search and capture of the
animal. We are going to try to capture it alive."

The chief provided additional details of the search operation.
"The search operation would consist of 14 officers from the
mounted police. They will search the Rosario River Area, heading
north. Six additional officers will search the neighboring areas
surrounding the city dump, where a family of nearby residents
reported seeing the creature as close as ten meters from their
residence. A third patrol car, with four officers will search
the vicinity of Salado Brook, where in mid February a couple was
attacked by the alleged beast. Each team will include members of
the Crime Scene Investigative Unit 3, in case any physical
evidence, such as tracks, hairs, or fingerprints would require
to be analyzed," said Police Chief Far=EDas. Miami UFO Center has
not received any recent updates about this search; therefore it
is not known if the search is still ongoing.

In Cachi, Argentina, several investigators interested in animal
mutilations cases have arrived. Some of them, including a few
journalists, are interested in the reports of humanoid
sightings. One particular French journalist by the name of Jean
Jacques Mandel is interested in the chupacabras phenomenon. He's
an editor for Geo Magazine. Mandel is in the area conducting
interviews and investigations to determine if the reports about
humanoid creatures are real, or if they are just the product of
mass hysteria. Mandel has also traveled to India to investigate
the sightings of another humanoid creature known as "the monkey
man."





More UFOs Seen in Chile

Source: Terra.cl

The wave of UFO sightings in Chile continues to be ongoing since
it began on mid February. On March 21, several flying objects
were observed at around noon in the area of Providencia, in
Santiago. According to many eyewitnesses and television footage,
the object appeared along with a group of lights in the
northeast part of the city.

A television camera crew interviewed several eyewitnesses.
According to them, the object was very big, circular in shape,
very bright, and it seemed to be accompanied by other smaller
objects. Some eyewitness reported seeing up to seven objects
around it. The smaller objects appeared to be spheres.

Roberto Rasse was one of the eyewitnesses. "At first, I didn't
know what to make of it. It was strange because it happened
right when the war with Iraq started. I called a friend of mine
that knows about UFOs and told him to bring his binoculars. When
he saw it using the binoculars, he said that there were many
smaller objects around it, around 50 of them. Then, it flew away
very rapidly," he said. After taking a better look with the
binoculars, Cristian Aguirre, said that the main object did not
appear to be solid.

It appeared to change shape. According to some reports, the air
force said that the objects were not seen on radar.

On the day before, another UFO was seen in the city of Calama.
An eyewitness by the name of Rodrigo Castillo reported seeing
the flying object when he was driving from Calama to the
neighboring city of Antofagasta, in northern Chile. According to
him, the object followed his truck for about two minutes.

"It was about nine o'clock at night. As I was driving, I noticed
a very bright object in the sky. It suddenly began to get closer
to my truck.

It had an intense brightness. It continued following me for
about two minutes.

I stopped the truck, and the object kept on moving in the
direction I was traveling. It did not emit any sound. It was not
an airplane because it was very quiet. After I stopped, it was
gone within seconds," said Castillo.



Translation by Mario Andrade

Reports gathered by Jaime Ferrer, Calama UFO Center







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             Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line - Hamilton

From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 08:58:54 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 18:22:32 -0400
Subject: Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line - Hamilton


 >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 23:42:22 +0000
 >Subject: Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line

 >>From: Geoff Richardson <geoff@fastdog.karoo.co.uk>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 20:14:12 +0100
 >>Subject: Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line

<snip>

 >>I would like to add to Nick's remarks regarding Ray Stanford's
 >>book - "A Socorro 'Saucer in a Pentagon Pantry'. I have
 >>obviously read quite a number of Ufology related books and Ray
 >>Stanford's "Socorro Saucer..." must rate amongst the best.

 >>Not just an example of detailed dedicated research but written
 >>in such a way that it will appeal to everyone interested in
 >>genuine Ufology.

 >>IMHO a classic.

 >Classic BS! Okay, I have bit my tongue until I drew blood,
 >and I have had enough.

 >Stanford's depiction of the alleged metallic physical trace
 >evidence was rebutted 20+ years ago, and I am horrified to see
 >him (like the Night of the Living Dead) rising up once again to
 >purvey his false version of what happened.

 >As I reported back in the 1970s, Stanford is the only
 >one who claims what he claims. Everyone at NICAP at the time,
 >including me and Walt Webb (who accompanied Stanford to the
 >Goddard Space Flight Center with the trace sample) say
 >otherwise.

 >He badly wanted to believe that he had the ultimate physical
 >proof, but that is _not_ what the NASA analysis indicated. I am
 >prepared to go to the mat on this. Stanford's version of what
 >happened is riddled with factual errors and paranoid imaginings.


Okay, as all of these cases seem to have a degree of disagreement
and high emotional content, please enlighten us on NICAP's
findings as factually as possible.


Thanks,

Bill H.







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                               EBE-ET Address

From: Thiago Luiz Ticchetti <thiagolt@opengate.com.br>
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 15:10:01 -0300
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 18:24:30 -0400
Subject: EBE-ET Address


Hello list,

Please update the EBE-ET address:

SCRN 7169 Bloco G entrada 8 apto. 102
Asa Norte
Brasilia/DF.
Brazil
CEP 70770-670

--

Thiago Luiz Ticchetti
Vice-presidente da EBE-ET/RAB
Brasilia/DF
Brasil






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             Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 15:50:46 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 18:31:04 -0400
Subject: Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line - Stanford


 >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 23:42:22 +0000
 >Subject: Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line

 >>From: Geoff Richardson <geoff@fastdog.karoo.co.uk>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 20:14:12 +0100
 >>Subject: Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line

 >>>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 19:33:19 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
 >>>Subject: Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line

 >>>>Last Saturday's 'Strange Days... Indeed' interview with
 >>>>Ray Stanford is available for your listening pleasure at:

 >>>>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/sdi/program/sdi2003.html

 >>>>in program 234's listing.

 >>>>Ray revealed some interesting new research info.....

 >>>A few years ago while at the Toronto Central Reference Library I
 >>>read a few pages of Ray Stanford's very well researched book,
 >>>'Socorro 'Saucer' in a Pentagon Pantry' which is all about the
 >>>famous 1966 [Actually 1964 -- R.S.] UFO landing/occupant case. I was
surprised to learn
 >>>that actual physical evidence - metallic residue - was found on
 >>>the rocks that the UFO landed on!

 >>>This time while listening to Ray on Errol's 'SDI' radio program
 >>>last Saturday night, I was again amazed to hear about some other
 >>>very fascinating observations he has made. If Ray's findings as
 >>>he interprets them are correct, then we have some very
 >>>compelling evidence that UFOs are real and extraterrestrial in
 >>>origin. Although Ray has decided to make details of his findings
 >>>public sometime soon, I encourage everyone to hear Ray talk
 >>>about some of these exciting findings which he has already
 >>>shared with 'SDI' listeners.

 >>I would like to add to Nick's remarks regarding Ray Stanford's
 >>book - "A Socorro 'Saucer in a Pentagon Pantry'. I have
 >>obviously read quite a number of Ufology related books and Ray
 >>Stanford's "Socorro Saucer..." must rate amongst the best.

 >>Not just an example of detailed dedicated research but written
 >>in such a way that it will appeal to everyone interested in
 >>genuine Ufology.

 >>IMHO a classic.

So Dick Hall got upset (as he admits) and said:

 >Geoff,

 >Classic BS! Okay, I have bit my tongue until I drew blood,
 >and I have had enough.

Dick sounds kind of out-of-control, doesn't he! :)

 >Stanford's depiction of the alleged metallic physical trace
 >evidence was rebutted 20+ years ago, and I am horrified to see
 >him (like the Night of the Living Dead) rising up once again to
 >purvey his false version of what happened.

You can bet Dick Hall is horrified (his word) because my book's
report on this metallic evidence matter shows that his alleged
'rebuttal' is, itself, 'buttal', to coin an appropriate term. :)
A rebuttal is no better than its content, and Dick's was absent
of anything except wishful thinking, because it was emotionally
biased, contrary to Dick's more traditional lucid thinking
concerning UFOs. Dick and NICAP had a lot to loose if it became
known that they helped loose metallic evidence of the most well-
documented UFO landing case ever.

Then, too, we might think about the evidence of a FOIA document
that reveals that a CIA security check was being undertaken on
Hall to see if he could be relied upon to work with them through
NICAP. Of course, Hall asks us to believe that this was being
done without his co-operation and knowledge, but that cannot not
be true. Many kinds of personal and aquaintance imformation are
needed and obtained from the person involved before a CIA
security check is done, because it is quite expensive and they
need valid personal information from 'the horse's mouth'. Thus,
one might wonder if Hall could have been taking up for the
cover-up of the Socorro metallic evidence under direction from
the CIA. I'm not sure of such a thing, but some might feel
there's reason to wonder, and NICAP has been shown to have been
replete with CIA related people.

I had Allen Hynek read my manuscript for the book before it was
ever published. He read it, told me he had communicated with Dr.
Henry Frankel (Who had headed the NASA Goddard Space Flight
Center analysis.), and then congratulated me for a job well
done, declaring Hall's rebuttal to be totally "in error" and
revealing of a lack of insight into the nature of x-ray
diffraction analysis, which was what was done to the Socorro
metallic material at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center under
the direction of Frankel.

Hynek's evaluation of the facts on this matter have subsequently
been backed up by every anaylitical chemist who has examined the
facts and communicated with me about it.

I suggest reading my book on the Socorro cover-up, if anyone
wants the facts about this and not the vitriol Dick is spewing
(accusing me of "paranoid imaginings", etc), possibly to try and
save face for the fact that he was a major contributor to a
series of events that lead to the cover-up of metallic hard
evidence from the Socorro's object's northwest landing gear that
was scraped onto a rock which that landing gear had pushed to
one side during the landing and possibly again, on lift-off.

You don't have my 1976 book and don't know where to get it? Bob
Girard at Arcturus Books (in Florida) has brand new First
Edition hard-cover copies, signed by me, available. You can
reach Bob at RGirard321@aol.com . His phone number is 772-398-
0796. The cost of the book (Make checks payable to Aucturus
Books.) is $21.95 + $2.84 postage if you live within the
contiguous 48 states of the USA. Postage would be more,
elsewhere. Ask Bob.

You could call Bob and give him your credit card information or
can mail a check to him at 1443 SE Port St. Lucie Blvd., Port
St. Lucie, FL 34952. My book's title is Socorro Saucer In A
Pentagon Pantry. I suggest you ask Bob for his free catalogue,
because he has many different books available, including Dick
Hall's very excellent The UFO Evidence, Volume II. So far as I
personally know, Girard is the only UFO book dealer around, and
I hear he could really use some sales right now, so help him
out, whether you buy my book, Dick Hall's book, or both. I have
Dick's book, and have read and appreciated it. It is a reference
book on UFO cases that every serious student of UFO phenomena
should have. Splurge yoursely and buy it, too.

Dick's message about what my book documents, said that he would
'go to the mat' with me on this. Well, Dick, I suspect it is
you, indeed, who would get penned to the mat were we to so
engage. But like Don ledger commented in response to yours, I
don't think UFO UpDates is the place to waste space for your
personal vendetta against my reporting the Socoro facts, so here
is what I propose:

I dare you to accept having a public debate with me about this
at the upcoming MUFON UFO Symposium, if John Schuessler would
allow it.

So, let's agree on this first and then ask John if MUFON would
like to sponsor the biggest 'drawing card' since Mike Tyson bit
the ear off his opponent. :)

If you can't afford the expense of travel to that next
conference, maybe MUFON would pay it. If they will not do so,
then you can ride over there with me in my car. I would not even
ask you to share any gasoline expenses and will even pay for
your hotel room if MUFON will not. We live only ten minutes
driving time apart, here in the D.C. area, and my car is
reliable and has air conditioning in case things get too hot
between us on this matter. :)

But please put up or shut up, Dick, my esteemed colleague on
most UFO matters, except this one.

Dick Hall seems to think that I cherish the lost Socorro
metallic evidence as some very important proof that what landed
at Socorro was likely of E.T. origin. No. I just reported the
facts. As I write, I glance upon evidence from the Socorro
landing that may turn out to put that metallic evidence he is
fussing about into the shade, considering the light it might
conceivably cast on both of the two seemingly distinct
propulsive modes employed by the Socorro object.

Those who wish to hear me describe this possible evidence should
listen to my interview (Thanks to Peter Davenport.) on the Jeff
Rense Radio Show (by radio or else on-line) tomorrow, 10 to 12
PM, Eastern. But I will have a lot to say about more important
UFO evidence, too.

I'm not really attached to this issue these days, having more
important UFO evidence to deal with right now, but felt I should
respond because Dick has chosen to let the vitriol fly. None of
those who praised my Socorro book on this list even mentioned
the metallic evidence matter in their UFO UpDates postings, so I
think it tactically foolish of Dick to do have done so. He will
just have a lot more open minded people out there learning what
he'd rather they not learn.

Now, lest Dick Hall or someone else accuse my interest in this
of being financial (to sell books), think again. I sure as heck
don't need the money a few book sales through Bob Girard would
bring me. In fact, I hereby go on notice that for every copy
ordered through Bob as a result of this posting, I will replace
every one of them to him at no charge. Free! Bob's honest and
worthy bookselling business deserves and needs the help in these
times when people are tightening their purse strings against
spending discretionary income.

I'll even go one step more: Listers, please buy the book from
Girard if you can afford it; but if you honestly cannot afford
it and will tell me so, just send me the $2.84 for postage, a
snail mail address, and I will personally pay for the envelope,
sacrifice what I would have received from Bob as the wholesale
price, sign the book, and mail it to you if you live within the
contiguous 48 states of the USA, as long as the supply last.
This offer applies only to verifiable members of the UFO UpDates
list as of the moment this message is posted.

Hall declared:

 >As I reported back in the 1970s, Stanford is the only
 >one who claims what he claims.

I guess Allen Hynek was a 'no one', to say nothing of the
analytical chemists who have commented. :)

Hall declared, further:

 >He badly wanted to believe that he had the ultimate physical
 >proof, but that is _not_ what the NASA analysis indicated.

List members, please read for yourself the real analysis
reported in my book, where I also quote the cover-up story. Both
sides are explicitly told. Contrary to Hall's claim, I never
expected such a bit of metallic evidence to be "the ultilate
physical proof"! Talk about constructing a straw man and
spitting on him!

O.K., Dick. Will you debate with me on this at the MUFON
conference, if MUFON will allow it on the program? If not, 'pipe
down!'*, as the saying goes.

[*Noting you were a pipe smoker the last time I was over at your
place to visit.] :)


Sincerely,

Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of trifles." --
Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery







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   Apr > Apr 7

                        Re: Request For Info - Harney

From: John Harney <magonia@harneyj.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 20:50:50 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 18:32:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Request For Info - Harney


 >From: Tim Edwards <tedwards@wiredog.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 05:10:42 -0400
 >Subject: Request For Info

 >I thought this forum would be the best place to receive reviews,
 >comments, and/or opinions of the following texts I just
 >acquired.

 >Witnessed - The True Story of the Brooklyn Bridge UFO Abductions

 >by Bud Hopkins
 >c. 1996 (Pocket Books: Mass Market Paperback)

Perhaps the politest adjective that can be used to describe Budd
Hopkins's 'Witnessed' is "controversial". I reviewed it for
Magonia magazine shortly after it was published. This review is
available at:

http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/90/hopkins.htm


John Harney







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                 Re: Boylan, Rodwell and Innocent Children -

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 16:34:47 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 18:34:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Boylan, Rodwell and Innocent Children -


 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 12:16:02 -0400
 >Subject: Boylan, Rodwell and Innocent Children

<snip>

 >...The potential emotional and psychological damage that can result
 >from reinforcing such belief systems in children cannot be
 >measured or predicted. To me, exposing children to such a thing
 >is tantamount to abuse.

 >Others may consider this activity as 'benign' and not harmful to
 >the children involved. But I would suspect that they are people
 >who have never had any children themselves. I am certain however
 >that any one who has been a parent, who has loved, nurtured and
 >raised children to adulthood will see the danger in such
 >activity as clearly as I do.

 >Just my opinion.

Not just yours, John, mine too. I raised three children.

Thanks for saying it,

Ray Stanford

"You know my method.  It is founded upon the observance of trifles." --
Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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                   Re: UFO Spectro-Photography - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 16:43:15 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 18:35:19 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Spectro-Photography - Stanford


 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 12:23:59 -0400
 >Subject: Re: UFO Spectro-Photography

<snip>

 >Ray has presented information on the use of diffraction gratings
 >in taking UFO pictures. I would like to point out that Edmunds
 >Scientific can provide a "Star" grating that creates vertical
 >and horizontal diff patterns (as well as the central image) with
 >a grating period of about 200 lines per inch. These can be
 >calibrated in a particular camera by photographing (at some
 >distance) a laser pointer (red or another color) or by
 >photographing a distance mercury vapor (blue-green) or sodium
 >vapor (yellow) streetlight.

True, but the "Star" grating splits available light into four
directions instead of just two, greatly reducing the available
light to act on the film for a readable spectrum.

For that reason, I don't recommend it.

But using a laser pointer's reflected image to calibrate the
system is a good suggestion.

But whatever one uses, don't forget to provide calibration
spectra on film.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method.  It is founded upon the observance of trifles." --
Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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               Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 21:23:23 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 18:37:05 -0400
Subject: Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line - Hall


 >From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 13:06:56 -0300
 >Subject: Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line

 >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 23:42:22 +0000
 >>Subject: Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line

 >>>From: Geoff Richardson <geoff@fastdog.karoo.co.uk>
 >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 20:14:12 +0100
 >>>Subject: Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line

 >>>I would like to add to Nick's remarks regarding Ray Stanford's
 >>>book - "A Socorro 'Saucer in a Pentagon Pantry'. I have
 >>>obviously read quite a number of Ufology related books and Ray
 >>>Stanford's "Socorro Saucer..." must rate amongst the best.

 >>>Not just an example of detailed dedicated research but written
 >>>in such a way that it will appeal to everyone interested in
 >>>genuine Ufology.

 >>>IMHO a classic.

 >>Geoff,

 >>Classic BS! Okay, I have bit my tongue until I drew blood, and
 >>I have had enough.

 >>Stanford's depiction of the alleged metallic physical trace
 >>evidence was rebutted 20+ years ago, and I am horrified to see
 >>him (like the Night of the Living Dead) rising up once again to
 >>purvey his false version of what happened.

 >>As I reported back in the 1970s, Stanford is the only one who
 >>claims what he claims. Everyone at NICAP at the time, including
 >>me and Walt Webb (who accompanied Stanford to the Goddard Space
 >>Flight Center with the trace sample) say otherwise.

 >>He badly wanted to believe that he had the ultimate physical
 >>proof, but that is _not_ what the NASA analysis indicated. I am
 >>prepared to go to the mat on this. Stanford's version of what
 >>happened is riddled with factual errors and paranoid imaginings.

 >Hi Dick,

 >I read the book. It didn't come across as paranoid to me. Where
 >is that coming from? I note there was some concerns about the
 >way the metal scrapings were handled and then the refusal
 >afterwards of the scientist to talk to Ray Sanford about it. he
 >makes some valid claims about the trace metal findings which
 >rebut what the scientist at Goddard Space Flight Center found. I
 >hope this isn't going to degenerate into a turf war. Because I
 >for one am not interested.


Don,

I think your remark about my comments resembling anything like a
"turf war" are totally uncalled for. I was there, okay? I have a
certain reputation for veracity and constructive contributions
in this field. You seem to accept whatever Stanford says as the
gospel truth in spite of my red warning flag. On what basis have
you concluded that his claims about the _alleged_ metal traces
are "valid?" I would think you would be more interested in
ascertaining the reasons for my remarks than brushing them off
so casually as not being of any pertinent interest to you.

  - Dick








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                Angela Bowie Recalls UFO Crash Near Detroit?

From: Todd Lemire <tlemire@comcast.net>
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 17:57:36 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 18:38:59 -0400
Subject: Angela Bowie Recalls UFO Crash Near Detroit?


Hello Everyone,

I recently received a request for assistance from a young man
concerning the article on my website at the url below.

http://www.michiganufos.com/miscellaneous.html#detroit

Angela Bowie Recalls UFO Crash Near Detroit

He is interested in obtaining a copy of the video (newscast
video most likely) which is mentioned at the above url. As
you'll see this report appears to be a hoax, but if anyone is
familiar with any more details or recalls seeing this particular
broadcast please contact me with any information you may have.


Thanks in advance,

Todd Lemire








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              Re: Boylan, Rodwell and Innocent Children - Gates

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 18:59:52 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 20:42:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Boylan, Rodwell and Innocent Children - Gates


 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 12:16:02 -0400
 >Subject: Boylan, Rodwell and Innocent Children


 >Hi All,

 >I don't know how many of you had a chance to listen to Saturday
 >night's broadcast of Strange Days... Indeed. Apparently Richard
 >Boylan (of hot-tub fame) has now turned his ufological attention
 >on children. No wait, let me correct that... he has turned his
 >attention on 'Star-children.'

 >All I will say about Boylan is; go to the Google Search engine on
 >the Internet and type in the following phrase:

 >Richard Boylan Hot Tub

 >Enjoy the read if you can hold your lunch down while doing it.

John, Listers

Dr. Boylan, a clinical psychologist, was allegedly the past
president of the Sacramento Valley Psychological Association.

Supposedly his practise was shutdown and his various state
licenses stripped due to "imposing his views of space aliens
into the dreams and memories of two patients, nude hot tub
bathing with patients, and bartering nude massages in return for
psychological therapy." according to Saucer Smear.

Years ago (mid 90s?) some folks defended the story and said that
he was just being picked on by his detractors and the evil
government conspiracy. I recall it was once suggested that this
was some kind of alternative treatment method that other
(whomever the other were) abductee researchers have used or were
using. Yet others thought he was merely pumping the abductees
for information. Either way the hot tub story may give new
meaning to being "probed".

When I saw the words "star children" the name Michael Jackson
came to mind... or should that have been sleep over? :)


Cheers,

Robert







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               Re: For The Military Conspiracy People - Gates

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 19:24:45 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 20:45:24 -0400
Subject: Re: For The Military Conspiracy People - Gates


 >From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 15:09:44 -0500
 >Subject: Re: For The Military Conspiracy People

 >>From: Tom King <tomking2030@hotmail.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 21:48:04 +0000
 >>Subject: For The Military Conspiracy People

 >>For all you people on this list that believe all UFOS are just
 >>U.S. military Pysops test on the planet. IE... 3-13-97 boomerang
 >>was hologram or blimp etc...

 >Ok, Tom, I'll bite (I was asked these same questions recently in
 >what I thought was a private conversation with someone else,
 >hmmm).

 >First, I don't think "all" UFOs are U.S. military psyops tests.
 >Some UFOs could be secret military projects and some could be
 >something else. And, I am not into conspiracies. To deny that
 >*some* (not all) UFOs could be misidentifications of secret
 >military technologies is to live in a fantasy world.

Amy, Listers,

The 'Military UFO' theory has seemed to gain more traction with
the stories being told by disclosure project witnesses who were
claiming that we (meaning the US) had created duplicates of ET
craft and we were using those to do all the evil/bad stuff
attributed to ET like abductions, various bodily probes,
implants and everything else. Apparently they claim that ET is
some benovelent being just trying to help out, blah blah blah.

 >Second, I doubt holograms are used that much and I don't think
 >they were used during the 3-13-97 events in the Phoenix area. As
 >for flying craft described as "boomerangs", "black triangles",
 >"V shaped", etc. - yes, I think some of these are stealth
 >military aircraft and much more than mere blimps (IMHO).

Hologram technology is oft been talked about but in fact and
reality there isn't a whole lot to show for it. I recall
something about if we could perfect holographic projection
technology you could project a huge figure of Mohammand or Allah
in front of say some countrys arabic troops and they would run
in fear and hand wringing.

 >>Can you please explain why our recent wars in Afghanistan and
 >>Iraq are not using this technology? Many peoples lives are on
 >>the line and were is this supreme technology to help save lives?

 >Tom, how do you know they are _not_* using secret projects in
 >Afghanistan and Iraq?

They have been using formerly secret technology like the one
bomb, and are working on the microwave bomb... with a report
that we actually used one in a particular area in Iraq.

<snip>

 >>Were is 'Bubba' flying over Iraq sending live video to Centcom?
 >>Instead we have the predator flying in circles.

 >You think _this_ is all we have? You don't seem to know much
 >about UAV's, MAV's and military technologies. If 'Bubba' were
 >flying over Iraq sending live video, do you really think we'd be
 >told the true source of the images (if they don't want us and
 >Saddam to know)?

In essence we had Bubba hovering over Iraq in the form of
various unmanned UAVs for hours and hours.

 >>Were is all this hologram technology you preach about? How come
 >>they don't use it on the enemy but they use it over our major
 >>cities? I think if we had holograms that can fool 1,000 people
 >>into seeing a massive UFO we would use it to make people believe
 >>they are see the devil or something to scare the hell out of
 >>them.

 >Who is preaching about hologram technology? What's this about
 >holograms that can fool 1,000 people? Though the technology
 >exists I doubt it was used to fool the "1,000 people" as you
 >suggest.

Its more on the Sci/Fi side like moon bases then reality


Cheers,

Robert







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                     Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 19:43:58 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 20:47:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Maccabee


 >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 03:21:09 EDT
 >Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux

 >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 23:40:15 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux

 >Has anybody ever FOIA requested a copy of the annual history of
 >the MD Air National Guard for 1997 or some historical document
 >hat describes the annual exercise?  What would be interesting
 >to see is if the Annual history references anything connected to
 >he exercise. Perhaps we might get a list of the pilots that
 >were deployed, in which some of them could be run down to see if
t>hey recall anything.

Not aware of anyone using FOIA on the Maryland Nat. Guard. Might
work. My info is based on available information at the time
(Spring, Summer, 1997).







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                 Re: CFI-Podesta/Mattoon Follow-Up - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 20:56:30 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 08:05:08 -0400
Subject: Re: CFI-Podesta/Mattoon Follow-Up - Kaeser


John Velez wrote (in part):

 >Hello All,

 >I received the following message from Ted Roe of NARCAP in
 >reference to the issues that were raised last month about how
 >and why CFI and Podesta/Mattoon had chosen the Kecksburg case to
 >go to the government with. Ted, Jan Aldrich, EBK and myself
 >conducted a dialog on 'Strange Days... Indeed' where Ted stated
 >that he was going to post a formal invitation for ufologists to
 >submit cases for consideration and possible inclusion in the
 >government inquiry process that has been initiated by CFI.

<snip>

John

I understand your frustrations, and we'll have to simply agree
to disagree on a number of points. We've debated this on the
Updates forum previously and our positions haven't changed.

It should be noted that while the UFO Coalition (or at least
members of that group) are hopeful that support from the Sci-Fi
Channel through CFI and Podesta-Mattoon can help with future
projects, there has been little spent thus far. Indeed, the sum
total of outlay among Coalition Members has been the cost of a
single breakfast meeting that only three of us were able to
attend.

Since you feel so passionately about this subject, I would
encourage you to boycott the Sci-Fi Channel's programming, as
well as that of the Discovery Network (Learning Channel, History
Channel, etc). They have also been known to take information
from researchers for their own profit without presenting the
genre in a positive light. Several researchers that I know have
vowed to never give interviews to a number of producers for that
very reason. I guess that leaves us with PBS, but we know how
they've treated the subject matter.


Steve







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              Re: Boylan, Rodwell and Innocent Children - Keith

From: Rebecca Keith <xiannekei@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 18:19:32 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 08:07:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Boylan, Rodwell and Innocent Children - Keith


 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 12:16:02 -0400
 >Subject: Boylan, Rodwell and Innocent Children

 >Hi All,

 >I don't know how many of you had a chance to listen to Saturday
 >night's broadcast of Strange Days... Indeed. Apparently Richard
 >Boylan (of hot-tub fame) has now turned his ufological attention
 >on children. No wait, let me correct that... he has turned his

 >attention on 'Star-children.'

 >All I will say about Boylan is; go to the Google Search engine
 >on the Internet and type in the following phrase:

 >Richard Boylan Hot Tub

 >Enjoy the read if you can hold your lunch down while doing it.

 >The 'guest' on last Saturday's edition of SDI was author Mary
 >Rodwell. She has been motivated by Boylan's current work with
 >'Star children' to pursue the subject on her own with children
 >in Australia.

<snip>

Some might be interested in reading this article that was posted
a while ago on this list:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2003/jan/m02-001.shtml







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                 Re: Boylan, Rodwell and Innocent Children -

From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 05:25:12 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 08:12:07 -0400
Subject: Re:  Boylan, Rodwell and Innocent Children -


 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 12:16:02 -0400
 >Subject: Boylan, Rodwell and Innocent Children

 >I don't know how many of you had a chance to listen to Saturday
 >night's broadcast of Strange Days... Indeed. Apparently Richard
 >Boylan (of hot-tub fame) has now turned his ufological attention
 >on children. No wait, let me correct that... he has turned his
 >attention on 'Star-children.'

<snip>

Hi John,

I did not hear the show Saturday. I'm nine hours ahead of you
and music was my mistress in Berlin last Saturday nite. But
John, I can say I mostly agree with you. Even though it was
urgent it caused you, after many years of banishment, to post
the name of the unmentionable one of dark disrepute on this
List.

As far as I'm concerned, seeing him do his con artist fake
direct sources from right within military intelligence, his
psycopathic delusion of those who allegedly want the
unmentionable one to be the trusted one to carry their deep dark
secrets the government is covering up to the public. That was
_many_ years ago at a couple of MUFON meetings. He had a smooth,
well honed schtick. He had it down as if he were in some weird
theatrical production. He was, in his treacherous head.

As time went by we discussed him quite a lot and I know I did
some posting. We went all through things that developed from his
hot tub abductee pseudo-tantra deceptions and his being a
disgrace to his license and pseudo-career. I guess one quadrant
of his brain has one too many furrows or something akin.

John, I need your help with my fuzzy memory about no name and
the "Star Children".

Didn't we talk about his interaacting with "Star Kids" on here
in the past? I vaguely remember he was going to do some sessions
with them at some place in the coast range of mountains below
San Francisco in one of the three California coumties I was the
MUFON State Section Director (whoop de doo) of back in another
century. I think I said on here that I would let the researcher
who replaced me know about it. I did.

Didn't we have a report from that no name session?

I can't remember how those children were discovered or just how
they were brainwahed by no name. I can't remember even when that
was but I would like to read that report and our posts again in
the archives.

How are the Australian children discovered?

Where in Australia does this take place? Are there any reports?

In California does horny no name troll around for tasty little
kids to indoctrinate as contactees and abductees as he sees fit
while at nighr he is probing the inner resources of their moms
in the hot tub?

Do wacko parents indoctrinate their kids as "Star Children"?

Are these kids who suddenly run into the parents' bedroom at
about 10 am Sunday while the folks are finishing the horizontal
orgasmic rhumba and are cuddled with each other? Does the child
run in and shout that the aliens are talking again? Do the folks
then phone or email no name?

I wonder happened to the California "Star Children"? Has he
kept doing sessions there?

It's in the wee hours of the morning here so tomorrow I'll try
to look into this.


Thanks,

Josh









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              Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 01:35:46 -0300
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 08:15:13 -0400
Subject: Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line - Ledger


 >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 21:23:23 +0000
 >Subject: Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line

 >>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 13:06:56 -0300
 >>Subject: Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line

 >>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 23:42:22 +0000
 >>>Subject: Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line

 >>>>From: Geoff Richardson <geoff@fastdog.karoo.co.uk>
 >>>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>>Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2003 20:14:12 +0100
 >>>>Subject: Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line


 >>>Classic BS! Okay, I have bit my tongue until I drew blood, and
 >>>I have had enough.

 >>>Stanford's depiction of the alleged metallic physical trace
 >>>evidence was rebutted 20+ years ago, and I am horrified to see
 >>>him (like the Night of the Living Dead) rising up once again to
 >>>purvey his false version of what happened.

 >>>As I reported back in the 1970s, Stanford is the only one who
 >>>claims what he claims. Everyone at NICAP at the time, including
 >>>me and Walt Webb (who accompanied Stanford to the Goddard Space
 >>>Flight Center with the trace sample) say otherwise.

 >>>He badly wanted to believe that he had the ultimate physical
 >>>proof, but that is _not_ what the NASA analysis indicated. I am
 >>>prepared to go to the mat on this. Stanford's version of what
 >>>happened is riddled with factual errors and paranoid imaginings.

 >>I read the book. It didn't come across as paranoid to me. Where
 >>is that coming from? I note there was some concerns about the
 >>way the metal scrapings were handled and then the refusal
 >>afterwards of the scientist to talk to Ray Sanford about it. he
 >>makes some valid claims about the trace metal findings which
 >>rebut what the scientist at Goddard Space Flight Center found. I
 >>hope this isn't going to degenerate into a turf war. Because I
 >>for one am not interested.

 >I think your remark about my comments resembling anything like
 >a "turf war" are totally uncalled for. I was there, okay? I have
 >a certain reputation for veracity and constructive contributions
 >in this field. You seem to accept whatever Stanford says as the
 >gospel truth in spite of my red warning flag. On what basis have
 >you concluded that his claims about the _alleged_ metal traces
 >are "valid?" I would think you would be more interested in
 >ascertaining the reasons for my remarks than brushing them off
 >so casually as not being of any pertinent interest to you.

Hi Dick,

I believe my remarks were more targeted at not getting a small
war going between you and Ray. But I did read the book and
didn't see the paranoia you spoke of-beyond that mind you that
most of us have regarding the establishment's seeming disire to
keep things from us. In other ways I've been through what Ray
spoke of.

What I wasn't interested in was the animosity which arises from
these exchanges. I'm very interested in the details. Recent
events lead me to think I'll be privy to them.

 >I have a certain reputation for veracity and constructive
 >contributions in this field.

No argument from me-and I think you know that.

Best,

Don






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                   NASA Posts Thousands Of New Mars Images

From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 01:28:52 -0300
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 08:20:30 -0400
Subject: NASA Posts Thousands Of New Mars Images

Source: CNN.com

http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/space/04/05/mars.images.reut/index.html

Saturday, April 5, 2003

NASA posts thousands of new Mars images


WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- Sand dunes that look like the scales of
a giant fish and rare, wispy clouds are among more than 11,000
new images of Mars posted on the Internet, NASA said on Friday.

The photographs, which scientists will examine to glean new
clues about how much water there is on Mars and where, are
posted at: www.msss.com/moc_gallery

They were taken by the orbiting Mars Global Surveyor.

"The new batch, taken between February and July 2002, brings the
total number of images in the online gallery to more than
123,800," NASA said in a statement.

MGS, orbiting Mars since 1997, has provided valuable insights
that have helped planetary experts and geologists to conclude
that liquid water may exist just under the surface of Mars. That
is important news for future explorers as well as to scientists
trying to understand the Red Planet's dynamics.

"Indeed, there remain new discoveries to be made about the
history of water, climate variability, and character of future
landing sites from the continuing flow of images, spectra, and
related measurements from the Global Surveyor," said James
Garvin, NASA's lead scientist for Mars Exploration.

"Without the new perspectives provided by MGS, the critical
scientific and engineering assessment of potential landing sites
for the Mars Exploration Rovers would not have been possible."











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               Re: For The Military Conspiracy People - Hebert

From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com>
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 02:00:20 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 08:24:45 -0400
Subject: Re: For The Military Conspiracy People - Hebert


 >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 19:24:45 -0400
 >Subject: Re: For The Military Conspiracy People

 >>From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 15:09:44 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: For The Military Conspiracy People

 >Amy, Listers,

 >The 'Military UFO' theory has seemed to gain more traction with
 >the stories being told by disclosure project witnesses who were
 >claiming that we (meaning the US) had created duplicates of ET
 >craft and we were using those to do all the evil/bad stuff
 >attributed to ET like abductions, various bodily probes,
 >implants and everything else. Apparently they claim that ET is
 >some benovelent being just trying to help out, blah blah blah.

Actually, Robert, I think those who study military technologies
in addition to UFO sightings do so for reasons as varied as for
those who study UFO's, abductions, ET theories, etc. Stories
told by disclosure project witnesses mean little to me as do the
claims of alleged benevolent ET's here to help us. The study of
military technology in relation to UFO sightings seems a logical
step in a scientific approach to the study of phenomena. Before
we can go around claiming something is 'unknown' or
"unidentified" we must first make sure it's not plain old human
ingenuity in disguise.

 >Hologram technology is oft been talked about but in fact and
 >reality there isn't a whole lot to show for it. I recall
 >something about if we could perfect holographic projection
 >technology you could project a huge figure of Mohammand or Allah
 >in front of say some countrys arabic troops and they would run
 >in fear and hand wringing.

Shees! You'd think they'd find better ways to use it by now. If
it were me, I'd use holographic technology to generate various
kinds of camouflage to hid behind or distort the outlines of
armored ground vehicles... or maybe even make a triangular-
shaped object look V-shaped one minute, circular the next or
even box-like the next minute. That way no two sighting reports
would be the same and it would cause mass confusion and doubt.
No one would ever be able to point to it and say, "Oh, it's just
one of those old military thingies using CC&D to make us think
we're seeing flying saucers and ET." But then, naaaa. Easier to
just use variable lighting patterns since it's been around for
decades and works so well.

 >They have been using formerly secret technology like the one
 >bomb, and are working on the microwave bomb... with a report
 >that we actually used one in a particular area in Iraq.

So true, Robert. I've also noticed there has been almost no
mention of the use of non-lethal weapons or lasers. Makes one
wonder if these might be used/tested in Iraq as well. Who's
gonna complain?

 >In essence we had Bubba hovering over Iraq in the form of
 >various unmanned UAVs for hours and hours.

Yep, maybe 'Bubba' is all grown up and had babies by now.

 >>Who is preaching about hologram technology? What's this about
 >>holograms that can fool 1,000 people? Though the technology
 >>exists I doubt it was used to fool the "1,000 people" as you
 >>suggest.

 >Its more on the Sci/Fi side like moon bases then reality.

Maybe it's not all Sci/Fi. <grin>

A. Hebert







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               Re: For The Military Conspiracy People - Hebert

From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com>
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 02:16:13 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 08:26:04 -0400
Subject: Re: For The Military Conspiracy People - Hebert


 >From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 19:01:38 -0300
 >Subject: Re: For The Military Conspiracy People

 >>From: Tom King <tomking2030@hotmail.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 21:48:04 +0000
 >>Subject: For The Military Conspiracy People >Again

 >what's the point of showing them off to the civilian populations
 >in towns and cites of the world.

 >Don Ledger


Maybe the point is the result.

A. Hebert






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                     Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Hamilton

From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 05:45:42 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 10:01:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Hamilton


 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 19:43:58 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux

 >>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 03:21:09 EDT
 >>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux

 >>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 23:40:15 -0500
 >>>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux

 >>Has anybody ever FOIA requested a copy of the annual history of
 >>the MD Air National Guard for 1997 or some historical document
 >>hat describes the annual exercise? What would be interesting
 >>to see is if the Annual history references anything connected to
 >>he exercise. Perhaps we might get a list of the pilots that
 >>were deployed, in which some of them could be run down to see if
 >t>hey recall anything.

 >Not aware of anyone using FOIA on the Maryland Nat. Guard. Might
 >work. My info is based on available information at the time
 >(Spring, Summer, 1997).

I have just asked Peter Gersten to file one, but also request
Larry Bryant to file one as well.

I have asked for the following minimum information:

On March 13, 1997...

1) Time of departure of Maryland ANG A-10 airplanes from Davis-
   Monthan AFB in Tucson, Arizona.

2) Time of return of A-10s to DM AFB.

3) Location of exercise on Barry Goldwater range.

4) Type and number of flares carried by each airplane.

5) Exact time and location of flare ejection during exercise.

If we could just obtain this, then we would have some factual
data on that flare drop.

-Bill Hamilton







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             Re: Boylan, Rodwell and Innocent Children - Carter

From: Janet Carter <JanetECarter@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 10:42:55 EDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 17:22:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Boylan, Rodwell and Innocent Children - Carter


 >From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 05:25:12 +0200
 >Subject: Re: Boylan, Rodwell and Innocent Children

 >Didn't we talk about his interaacting with "Star Kids" on here
 >in the past? I vaguely remember he was going to do some sessions
 >with them at some place in the coast range of mountains below
 >San Francisco in one of the three California coumties I was the
 >MUFON State Section Director (whoop de doo) of back in another
 >century. I think I said on here that I would let the researcher
 >who replaced me know about it. I did.

<snip>

I've been a lurker for a while, so I'm new to the fray... but
not to the issue of "abductions" and contact experiences of both
adults and children.

There are two issues that seem to be getting murked up in this
thread. One is the reputation of Richard Boylan. You all
obviously have had experiences that I have not with the man. I
have only known him from participating in his newslist for
almost 4 years. What I _will_ say is that I have had serious
reservations of my own, based alone on his actions on the List.

The second is what constitutes an appropriate response by the
adults in their world, to children who are "contactees".

To me, that is the relevant issue here, and I would hope this
discussion could evolve without contaminating it with the
tarnished reputation of one individual. Pardon the pun, but I
would hope we wouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water.

As a psychotherapist (clinical social worker), _and_ a contactee
since childhood, there are obviously immense issues at work in
dealing with the spectrum of experiences people of all ages have
with E/T presences. The idea that children are contactees is not
just the product of a manipulative delusion...and the idea that
all contact is de facto horrifically traumatic also doesn't
represent the reality of the spectrum of experiences that
people, including children, report.

Namaste,

Janet Carter


Join me in the journey of cosmic discovery at

http://www.sagittariusarm.com








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                     Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Fortson

From: Mike Fortson <satmike@cox.net>
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 08:00:53 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 17:26:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Fortson


 >From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 05:45:42 -0800
 >Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux

 >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 19:43:58 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux

<snip>

 >>Not aware of anyone using FOIA on the Maryland Nat. Guard. Might
 >>work. My info is based on available information at the time
 >>(Spring, Summer, 1997).

 >I have just asked Peter Gersten to file one, but also request
 >Larry Bryant to file one as well.
<snip>


Bill,

Back in 1997, just after the FOIA was released by Black Vault on
the subject of Luke AFB's knowledge of flares on March 13, 1997,
I ask you about doing the same thing about the MANG unit staying
in Tucson. You told me that everything that it had been done and
everything came back zeros.

Remember? No foodchits signed. No fuel chits signed. No proof of
temporary base housing. No one signed for anything. Thus, there
was no proof the MANG being there. Remember? I wrote about this
as it happened in alt.ufo.reports or alt.alien.visitors back in
the summer of 1997.

The FOIA request you have asked Peter to do... has already been
done.


Mike






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                       UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 15

From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 14:24:03 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 17:29:52 -0400
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 15


Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor.

<Masinaigan@aol.com>
==========================

       UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 8, Number 15
April 9, 2003
Editor: Joseph Trainor
E-mail: Masinaigan@aol.com

http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/


UFOs FLY AS ALLIED BOMBS
HIT THE LITTLE ZAB VALLEY

       Despite a heavy Allied bombing raid on the as-Zab As-
Saghir (Little Zab River) valley in northern Iraq, UFOs
appeared in the night skies of that embattled Middle East
nation last week.
       During the early hours of Wednesday, April 2, 2003,
Allied B-52 bombers "hit targets outside Kirkuk in the
heaviest and most frequent bombing around the strategic
oil center since the war began."  Two-thousand-pound
"steerable" bombs came raining down on Zarzi and other
sites in the Little Zab valley, which is alleged to be
"Saddam's Area 51" because of the reputed presence of
aliens there.
       "The bombers flew so high they could not be seen,"
said Ayesha al-Khatabi, one of UFO Roundup's
correspondents in the Middle East.  "My Iraqi sources told
me that people in the valley heard the loud whistle of the
falling bombs, then a series of explosions.  Zarzi and
Qala Dizeh were bombed.  But not the citadel at Qalaat-e-
Julundi, which is seven kilometers (4 miles) down the
(Little Zab) river from Zarzi.  The Ishkut-i-Kurh-i-Kish
(famous imam's tomb in nearby Shornakh--J.T.) also escaped
damage, as did the ziqqurat (pyramid) of the sorcerer
Gimil-ishbi in Altun Kopru (formerly the
ancient Sumerian city of Shimurru back in 3000 B.C.--J.T.)."
       According to stories making the rounds in the Middle
Eastern UFO community, a saucer was shot down in Iraq
either during Gulf War 1 in 1991 or during Operation
Desert Fox in 1998.  Saddam Hussein reportedly granted the
aliens sanctuary, allowing them to remain in Iraq if they
would help him neutralize the technological military
advantages enjoyed by his enemies, the USA, UK and Israel.
The aliens were reportedly staying at either the
underground base at Zarzi or at the centuries-old citadel
of Qalaat-e-Julundi on the Little Zab River.  (For more,
see UFO Roundup, volume 7, number 51 for December 16,
2002, "Saddam's Area 51?")
       Zarzi is about 72 kilometers (45 miles) west of
Kirkuk.
       Kirkuk is the main objective of the Peshmirga
(Kurdish militia--J.T.) and 2,200 paratroopers of the U.S.
Army's 173rd Airborne Brigade.  After taking Chamchamal,
the Peshmirga (Kurdish for Those who are ready to die --
J.T.) forced Iraqi troops of the 1st and 5th Mechanized
Divisions out of Taqtaq on Monday, March 31, 2003, and
then pushed on to Kalak on Wednesday, April 2, 2003.
       By Saturday, April 5, 2003, the Allied forces grabbed
the bridge over the Khazer River and halted at Bahra, 40
kilometers (25 miles) east of Mosul.  A furious artillery
duel took place in Mankubah, 19 kilometers (12 miles) east
of Mosul.
       "The Peshmirga and their Green Berets (U.S. Army
Special Forces advisors--J.T.) are arrayed in a horseshoe
around the valley, but they have not yet entered it in
force," Ayesha added, "The Iraqis are dug in west of Bahra
and are hitting the Anglo-American coalition forces with
artillery fire."
       Despite the Allied pressure on Zarzi, UFOs made their
first appearance of the war last week.
       On Thursday, March 27, 2003, an oblong luminous UFO
hovered over the holy city of Najaf (population 560,000),
located about 100 kilometers (60 miles) south of Baghdad.
A photo showing the unknown object, with a G.I. of the 3rd
Brigade, 101st Airborne Division pointing at it with his
forefinger, appeared in the newspaper Euronews, according
to French ufologist Thierry Garnier.
       "The journalist of Euronews does not mention anything
about the object and attributed the destruction of the
(Allied) tank to 'an accidental implosion,' Thierry
reported.
       French ufologist Franck Marie said the image first
appeared on the Euronews website at 1:30 a.m. on Friday,
March 28, 2003, "but it was gone by 2 a.m."
       UFO Roundup correspondent Mohammed Hajj al-Amdar
stated, "The UFO's appearance caused great excitement
among the Shiites who saw it.  They said it had come from
Allah's Gardens of Bliss to protect the Tomb of Ali."
(Editor's Note:  Najaf is a holy city to Shiite Muslims
because of the golden-domed mosque that stands over the
grave of Ali, the son-in-law of the prophet Mohammed.  The
mosque miraculously escaped damage last week from the
101st Airborne's howitzer barrage.)
       At 11:57 p.m. Baghdad time on Thursday, April 3,
2003, "tiny UFOs that are shaped like a tube with a
rotating spiral around them" appeared over Baghdad.  The
small probes drifted over the midtown area between the Abu
Ghrab Expressway and Qadisiya Street, around Zawra Park.
       Eagle-eyed UFO Roundup correspondent Grady Croy
spotted the UFOs during a live broadcast from Baghdad
"while watching FOX News Studio B with Shepard Smith, we
saw very plain some of these tiny UFOs...I called FOX News
but they wouldn't talk to me."  He estimated that the
objects hovered for five minutes over Baghdad before
vanishing.  (See the Duluth, Minn. News-Tribune for
Monday, March 31, 2003, "U.S. and British warplanes
control the skies over battlefield," page 4A; USA Today
for Tuesday, April 1, 2003, "Iraq reinforces Baghdad as
U.S. troops advance," page 3A; for Wednesday, April 2,
2003, "New offensive toward Baghdad," page 3A; for
Thursday, April 3, 2003, "Coalition forces in sight of
Baghdad," page 3A; and for Friday, April 4, 2003, "U.S.
troops fight in outskirts of Baghdad," page 3A and "The
Battle of Baghdad," pages 10A and 11A.  Many thanks to
Thierry Garnier, Franck Marie, Grady Croy, Ayesha al-
Khatabi and Mohammed Hajj al-Amdar for these reports.)
(Editor's Comment: What's up for Zarzi next?  Your guess
is as good as mine, readers.  Hopefully, we won't see a
repeat of the bloodbath in Dulce, New Mexico that
reportedly took place in September 1969, when then-
President Richard M. Nixon sent a brigade of U.S. Marines
to destroy a group of aliens that took over an underground
U.S. laboratory.  The situation in Iraq changes by the
hour, so stay tuned.)

UFO WITH FLASHING LIGHTS
SPOTTED IN VENEZUELA

       Late Wednesday evening, March 19, 2003, according to
Venezuelan ufologist Arturo Escalante, "a teenaged couple
observed the maneuvers of a circular UFO over the
outskirts of the Cerro Avila (hill) in Urbanizacion
Mariperes, a suburb of Caracas," the capital of Venezuela.
       "The strange object, festooned with flashing lights
colored green and yellow, was seen between 10 p.m. and
10:30 p.m.  It made a short vertical rise which culminated
in an instantaneous departure to a neighboring mountain
peak."  (See NotiOVNI for March 30, 2003.  Muchas gracias
a Daniel Munoz para eso informe.)


UFOs ARE SIGHTED TWICE
IN WESTERN BRAZIL

       On Thursday, March 27, 2003, between 6 p.m. and 6:40
p.m., "a UFO was filmed flying over the small city of
Rondonopolis," in the state of Mato Grosso do Norte in
western Brazil.
       "Videographer Laurindo Guedes Jr. and Joao Jacka were
working in their photography store at the Mikekinos
Building in Rondonopolis when they spotted a luminous
object in the sky.  The UFO was disc-shaped and had a
bright spot in its center.  Guedes grabbed his video
camera, rushed outdoors and caught the strange flying
object in his viewfinder.  He obtained 10 minutes of
videotape showing the maneuvers of the UFO in the skies
above this Brazilian city.  The UFO suddenly departed at
precisely 6:40 p.m."
       "Another UFO was reported flying over Ponte de
Pedra," a small town on the Rio Sacuiuina, also in Mato
Grosso do Norte.
       Rondonopolis is about 400 kilometers (250 miles) west
of Brasilia, the national capital.  (Muito obrigado a
Eustaquio Andrea Patounas por esos casos.)


MUTILATED HORSE FOUND
IN CENTRAL ARGENTINA

       "A mare turned up dead in (central) Argentina with
mutilations on its jawbone.  No traces of blood were found
nearby, according to the Circulo Ovniologico
Riocuartense," a UFO research group.
       "The incisions performed on the tissue were perfectly
cauterized."
       "The animal belonged to a livestock rancher named
Daniel Godoy, whose property is located 7 kilometers (4
miles) southeast of the town of Villa Valeria in
(Argentina's) Cordoba province, some 120 kilometers (72
miles) southeast of Rio Cuarto on Ruta (Route) 35, which
links Cordoba to La Pampa."
       "Initial information states that the animal did not
suffer from any illnesses whatsoever beyond a slight hip
problem.  Police from Villa Valeria responded to the
scene.  However, no report whatsoever has been produced to
date."  (Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales y Mario Luis
Bracamonte para eso informe.)


LARGE WHITE UFO SEEN AT
AN AUSTRALIAN BEACH

       On Thursday, March 13, 2003, "a large white
illumination travelling from west to east at 1,000 feet
(300 meters) in altitude" was seen at One Mile Beach in
Anna Bay, located 30 kilometers (18 miles) from Newcastle,
New South Wales in Australia.
       The witness reported, "My wife and I witnessed it at
8:08 p.m.  We were walking along the beach in a westerly
direction, approximately two-thirds of the way to the
westerly end of the beach, where we watched a 'low star'
appear over the sea, west of One Mile Point, a hill
approximately 80 meters (264 feet) high.  The 'low star'
appeared in the west and travelled in a horizontal plane
to the east directly across our facing path, at what
seemed to be an even and regular speed.  The object
travelled west to east in an unchanging direction and
horizontal plane at a height of no more than I estimate at
300 meters (1,000 feet), then it suddenly stopped, then
disappeared directly to the south in less than a second or
so."
       "I liken the speed to that of a military helicopter.
In fact, I thought the object was a helicopter with its
searchlight, as several of these aircraft have been flying
regularly in our vicinity for the past few months.  This
object was not a helicopter."
       The witness estimated that the UFO was "some 1 to 3
kilometers" (0.6 to 1.8 miles) away."  (Many thanks to
John Hayes and Australia's National UFO Hotlines for this
report.)


GIANT SQUID CAPTURED IN
ANTARCTIC WATERS

       "Fishermen working in Antarctic waters have made an
extremely rare catch--a colossal squid with eyes as big as
dinner plates and razor-sharp hooks on its tentacles, a
marine researcher said Thursday," April 3, 2003.
       "The 330-pound, 16-foot (5.3-meter) long specimen was
caught in the Ross Sea, said Steve O'Shea, a research
fellow with the Auckland (New Zealand) University of
Technology.  He said the squid was a young female; adults
are much bigger."
       "Only one other colossal squid has ever been caught
before.  Scientists knew of their existence because their
beaks have been found in the stomachs of sperm whales."
       "'All we know is that it can move through the
water...to a depth of 2,000 meters (6,561 feet) and it is
an extremely active and extremely aggressive killer,'
O'Shea said."  (See the Duluth, Minn. News-Tribune for
April 4, 2003, "Fishermen catch giant squid," page 2A.)


       Well, that's it for this week.  Join us next time for
more UFO, Fortean and paranormal news from around the
planet Earth, brought to you by "the paper that goes home-
-UFO Roundup."  See you in seven days.

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2003 by Masinaigan Productions, all
rights reserved.  Readers may post news items from UFO
Roundup on their websites or in news groups provided that
they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list
the date of issue in which the item first appeared.

E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com>
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                                   T-1206?

From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.UManitoba.CA>
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 11:22:07 -0500 (CDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 17:31:33 -0400
Subject: T-1206?


Does anyone actually have a copy of microfilm reel T-1206(-1) of
the Blue Book files? Has anyone ever developed an online index
or list of Blue Book cases (not just the Unknowns) taken from
the first reel?


Nobody in particular







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               Re: For The Military Conspiracy People - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 14:30:21 -0300
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 17:59:19 -0400
Subject: Re: For The Military Conspiracy People - Ledger


 >From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 02:16:13 -0500
 >Subject: Re: For The Military Conspiracy People

 >>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 19:01:38 -0300
 >>Subject: Re: For The Military Conspiracy People

 >>>From: Tom King <tomking2030@hotmail.com> To:
 >>>ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003
 >>>21:48:04 +0000 Subject: For The Military Conspiracy
 >>>PeopleAgain

 >>what's the point of showing them off to the civilian
 >>populations in towns and cites of the world.


Hi Amy,

If that's a defense of the covert development theory by the
United States of some new aerial technology, I'm not buying it.
Again, the current technology does not support it.

If you are suggesting that these are being developed by the
United States to scare the populations of the world, and soften
them up to some alien invasion, I'm not buying that either.

If it's some ET technology looking to show their supiority-then
they are in bad need of a good public relations or advertising
firm, because they are lousy at it.


Don Ledger






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                   Re: UFO Spectro-Photography - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 13:09:00 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 18:05:46 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Spectro-Photography - Maccabee


 >From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 16:43:15 -0400
 >Subject: Re: UFO Spectro-Photography.

 >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 12:23:59 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: UFO Spectro-Photography

<snip>

 >>Ray has presented information on the use of diffraction gratings
 >>in taking UFO pictures. I would like to point out that Edmunds
 >>Scientific can provide a "Star" grating that creates vertical
 >>and horizontal diff patterns (as well as the central image) with
 >>a grating period of about 200 lines per inch. These can be
 >>calibrated in a particular camera by photographing (at some
 >>distance) a laser pointer (red or another color) or by
 >>photographing a distance mercury vapor (blue-green) or sodium
 >vapor (yellow) streetlight.

 >True, but the "Star" grating splits available light into four
 >directions instead of just two, greatly reducing the available
 >light to act on the film for a readable spectrum.

 >For that reason, I don't recommend it.

 >But using a laser pointer's reflected image to calibrate the
 >system is a good suggestion.

 >But whatever one uses, don't forget to provide calibration
 >spectra on film.


In my above description of the Edmunds "star" grating I stated
the grating frequency as 200 lines per inch. This should have
read 200 lines per millimeter - the more lines per millimeter
the larger the diffraction angle.








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             Re: The Hunt For The Chupacabras Is On - Richardson

From: Geoff Richardson <geoff@fastdog.karoo.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 19:12:01 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 18:23:09 -0400
Subject: Re: The Hunt For The Chupacabras Is On - Richardson


 >From: Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <ufomiami@prodigy.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 09:44:08 -0700 (PDT)
 >Subject: The Hunt For The Chupacabras Is On


 >The Hunt for the Chupacabras is On - Allegations of NASA
 >Offering a Reward

 >From Dr. Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo

 >Miami UFO Center

"La Chupacabra" and "Animal Mutilations" are covered in some
detail at "The WHY? Files"

http://www.thewhyfiles.co.uk

Geoff Richardson







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             Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 15:25:05 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 18:26:42 -0400
Subject: Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line - Stanford


List,

Please let me clarify what I said yesterday concerning Richard
Hall, in case anyone misinterpreted my words.

Of course, at times I wondered (after learning of the CIA
security clearance probe of Hall via an FOIA document that
someone published), but those who read my communication of
yesterday carefully will realize that I did not say that Dick is
a CIA agent, and I cautioned on the subject, even, of  any
conceivable compliance by Dick in a CIA cover-up, "I'm not sure
of such a thing..."

I certainly don't think of Dick as a CIA agent, but had wondered
when I heard about the clearance having been sought, whether he
might at least temporarily have been compliant with agency
wishes. In other words, I was sharing some of the quandary I
went through upon learning that a CIA clearance had been sought
for him.

If I were writing yesterday's post today, I might well leave
out all reference to a possible CIA connection; but my anger was
somewhat awakened by Dick's post. We are both human, though,
and, after sleeping on it, I am trying to forgive Dick's
off-the-cuff remarks, and I hope Dick will forgive any
indiscretion that he might feel I showed in my response on
UFO UpDates.

I still hope Dick will accept my challenge for a debate at the
MUFON conference. I think a gentlemanly debate would be to the
credit of Ufology.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method.  It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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                  Re: CFI-Podesta/Mattoon Follow-Up - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 15:38:46 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 18:28:31 -0400
Subject: Re: CFI-Podesta/Mattoon Follow-Up - Velez


 >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
 >Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 20:56:30 -0400
 >Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 08:05:08 -0400
 >Subject: Re: CFI-Podesta/Mattoon Follow-Up - Kaeser

 >John Velez wrote (in part):

 >>Hello All,

 >>I received the following message from Ted Roe of NARCAP in
 >>reference to the issues that were raised last month about how
 >>and why CFI and Podesta/Mattoon had chosen the Kecksburg case to
 >>go to the government with. Ted, Jan Aldrich, EBK and myself
 >>conducted a dialog on 'Strange Days... Indeed' where Ted stated
 >>that he was going to post a formal invitation for ufologists to
 >>submit cases for consideration and possible inclusion in the
 >>government inquiry process that has been initiated by CFI.

 ><snip>

 >John

 >I understand your frustrations, and we'll have to simply agree
 >to disagree on a number of points. We've debated this on the
 >Updates forum previously and our positions haven't changed.

 >It should be noted that while the UFO Coalition (or at least
 >members of that group) are hopeful that support from the Sci-Fi
 >Channel through CFI and Podesta-Mattoon can help with future
 >projects, there has been little spent thus far. Indeed, the sum
 >total of outlay among Coalition Members has been the cost of a
 >single breakfast meeting that only three of us were able to
 >attend.

Hi Steve,

You wrote:

 >Since you feel so passionately about this subject, I would
 >encourage you to boycott the Sci-Fi Channel's programming, as
 >well as that of the Discovery Network (Learning Channel, History
 >Channel, etc). They have also been known to take information
 >from researchers for their own profit without presenting the
 >genre in a positive light. Several researchers that I know have
 >vowed to never give interviews to a number of producers for that
 >very reason. I guess that leaves us with PBS, but we know how
 >they've treated the subject matter.

I have been refusing to participate in _any_ UFO programming
that is not being presented as "news" for over five years now. I
get asked/invited fairly regularly and the very first question
that I always ask is, "Is the subject being presented as news or
entertainment?" Because they invariably respond with,
"entertainment" is why you don't see me on TV any longer.  :)

They serve their own selfish purposes. I have just chosen to
serve a different master in life, Steve. _Truth_

Life is way too short for anything else.


Warm regards,

John Velez







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                 Press Release - Frivolous Litigation Fails

From: Royce J. Myers III - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 14:07:33 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 19:55:49 -0400
Subject: Press Release - Frivolous Litigation Fails


UFOWATCHDOG.COM PREVAILS IN COURT
Frivolous Litigation Fails To Silence Website

Touting himself as "one of America's greatest psychics", Sean
David Morton didn't have the ability to foretell his own future
when he filed a one-million dollar defamation lawsuit against
the Internet website UFOWATCHDOG.COM and its editor Royce J.
Myers III.

Morton alleged in a lawsuit that UFOWATCHDOG.COM and its editor
had "printed false and libelous statements" in a series of
articles appearing on the Internet. These articles, most notably
'The Shameless Psychic and His Prophecy of Lies', challenged
many of Morton's public claims regarding his supposed psychic
abilities, his UFO claims, and raised serious questions about
Morton's alleged background and educational claims.

Representing UFOWATCHDOG.COM, well-known Los Angeles civil
rights attorney Carol A. Sobel filed a motion to have Morton's
lawsuit dismissed under a California statute enacted in 1992 to
protect people from defamation and other Strategic Lawsuits
Against Public Participation (SLAPP). A SLAPP suit is usually
filed under the guise of a defamation claim and is designed to
silence outspoken opponents or critics by forcing them to devote
time and resources in combating a lawsuit.

Once the motion to dismiss is filed by the defendant, the party
filing the motion is faced with proving two burdens: The
statements complained of were made on an issue of public
interest and the statements were made in a public forum. The
public forum in this matter was the UFOWATCHDOG.COM website and
the public issue was Morton's alleged expertise and public
claims regarding UFOs and paranormal phenomena, which are both
obviously issues of public interest.

Sobel appeared at a hearing on March 13, 2003, in Los Angeles
Superior Court before Judge Cary Nishimoto. In arguments
submitted to the court on behalf of UFOWATCHDOG.COM, attorney
Carol A. Sobel noted that Morton had "not submitted a shred of
evidence to prove the falsity of even a single one of the
alleged defamatory statements he claims Defendants made of and
concerning him." A tentative ruling was issued by Judge
Nishimoto in favor of UFOWATCHDOG.COM. The ruling was not final,
as Judge Nishimoto provided Morton's attorney a second chance to
file papers with the court to offer evidence of Morton's claims.

"Apparently Mr. Morton's attorney failed to file some papers
with the court. The judge gave Mr.Morton's attorney another
chance to file the papers. After the initial ruling, we had to
wait for a final ruling from the court so the judge could take
Mr. Morton's papers into account. Even with the judge giving Mr.
Morton a second chance to offer proof to the court, it still
didn't do any good," Myers said.

On April 1, 2003, Myers was notified of Judge Nishimoto's final
ruling, which was in favor of UFOWATCHDOG.COM. In a two-page
ruling and the initial ruling, Judge Nishimoto stated that
Morton had "not shown that he can prevail or show actual malice
or that the matters complained of are not true....."

"Obviously, Judge Nishimoto made the appropriate decision.
California's SLAPP statute gives a fair and open opportunity for
the plaintiff to make their case. Mr. Morton created an
opportunity for himself to prove the veracity of his claims
publicly and he couldn't do it. Not only does the court's ruling
vindicate UFOWATCHDOG.COM, it also serves to demonstrate that
you can't extort people into silence by suing them."

UFOWATCHDOG.COM is now back online and features an updated
version of its original investigation into Morton. You can read
the updated story 'The Shameless Psychic and His Prophecy of
Lies' by visiting:

http://www.ufowatchdog.com/morton1.html

UFOWATCHDOG.COM editor Royce J. Myers III will be appearing on
various radio programs throughout the week discussing the
lawsuit. On Tuesday, April 8, 2003, Myers will be a guest on the
nationally syndicated Jeff Rense radio program and will also be
a guest on Strange Days...Indeed hosted by Errol Bruce-Knapp on
Saturday, April 12, 2003.

ABOUT UFOWATCHCDOG.COM Since early 2001, UFOWATCHDOG.COM has
challenged a number of the claims made by well known UFO
personalities, has provided commentary on the UFO and paranormal
fields, has served as a news source for both UFOs and the
paranormal as well as having exposed UFO hoaxes, all in an
effort to further more rational and scientific debate regarding
issues such as UFOs and the paranormal.

Contact: ufowatchdog@earthlink.net


Release compiled by C. O'Shaughnessy








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                Re: CFI-Podesta/Mattoon Follow-Up - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 17:06:14 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 19:58:19 -0400
Subject: Re: CFI-Podesta/Mattoon Follow-Up - Balaskas


 >Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 11:34:10 -0400
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >Subject: CFI-Podesta/Mattoon Follow-Up

<snip>

 >Good luck Ed, Larry, and Leslie. I hope Kecksburg turns out to
 >be an actual UFO case after all. If not... you will have given
 >ufology a black-eye that it may not recover from. As for FUFOR,
 >MUFON and CUFOS... if you ever find you balls, you might want to
 >tell Ed, Larry and Leslie that there are much stronger/better
 >UFO cases that they could be approaching the government with.

<snip>

Hi John! Hi Everyone!

The Kecksburg UFO crash happened exactly one month after a major
UFO flap in this same region of North America which, according
to the late Dr. James McDonald and many other ufologists, was
responsible for the great blackout of 1965 that disrupted the
lives of millions in Canada and the U.S. Where were you and what
were you doing on November 9, 1965?

Although rejected by author/ufologist Frank Edwards, NICAP's
Major Donald Keyhoe and others who knew better, the strange
lights moving through the skies (one such light over a darkened
Manhatten skyline can be found in Time magazine) before and
during the blackout were thought by some to be Soviet
spacecraft, much like Cosmos 96 that allegedly crashed in
Kecksburg. Leonard Stringfield, Stan Gordon and others (eg.
MUFON Journals 257, 258 and 274) who have investigated the
Kecksburg UFO crash have presented convincing evidence why this
very real and well documented UFO crash could not have been
Cosmos 96.

Unlike other further investigated UFO cases that have yielded
previously unknown Top Secret documents or additional expert
testimonies, the Kecksburg UFO crash case promises much more -
  possibly even the answer to the UFO mystery. An object was
observed by thousands and tracked across Canada and the U.S.
which crashed at Kecksburg. The remains or wreckage of this
object, wherever it is now stored, will be a much more important
find to ufology than more documents or new testimony of some
lesser UFO incident, even if the Kecksburg object does turn out
to be a Soviet spacecraft.

I too wish Ed, Leslie and Leslie good luck in their efforts to
find the truth behind this major UFO incident.


Nick Balaskas







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                       Contact... A Half Century Later

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 20:07:12 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 20:07:12 -0400
Subject: Contact... A Half Century Later



[UFO UpDates thanks Terry Groff for the lead]

Source: The Dallas Observer

http://www.dallasobserver.com/issues/2003-04-03/feature.html/2/index.html

April 3, 2003

Contact
A half century later, witnesses insist little green... or maybe
brown-men crashed in New Mexico

by Carlton Stowers
carlton.stowers@dallasobserver.com

It was a snow-covered December in 1995 when President Bill
Clinton, visiting Northern Ireland in support of the country's
new and fragile peace process, spoke to a large gathering that
had arrived for a Christmas tree lighting ceremony. The
president opted to dismiss politics and keep the mood of his
speech light. At one point, he drew laughter as he referred to a
letter he'd recently received from a 13-year-old boy in Belfast.

"Ryan," the president said, "in case you're out there, here is
your answer: No. As far as I know, no spaceship crashed at
Roswell, New Mexico, in 1947. And if the Air Force recovered any
extraterrestrial bodies, they did not tell me."

Such is the widespread and ongoing fascination attached to a
legendary event that many believe actually took place on the
late J.B. Foster's sheep ranch more than a half-century ago.
What has transpired since that Independence Day weekend when a
"flying saucer" was allegedly recovered by military personnel
from Roswell Army Air Field has fueled a debate that continues
56 years later. Is it possible that such an unearthly event
really occurred? The question has spawned an industry of books--
well more than 100 at last count--and documentary films,
inspired popular television shows and sci-fi movies, a
prospering museum business in Roswell and insistence by many
researchers that an ongoing government cover-up of the historic
discovery puts Watergate to shame.

Perhaps Clinton should have visited with Midland's Anne Robbins
before giving his answer. The widow of a career military man
stationed in Roswell at the time, she might have changed his
mind. She would probably have shared the description of the
saucer that her husband, Technical Sergeant Ernest Robert
Robbins, told her he helped recover long ago and the three small
"men"--one dead, one near death and another very much alive--
found outside the spaceship.

But we're getting ahead of the story.

Was the arid Lincoln County region actually visited by
inhabitants of another world? If so, why has the government
refused to admit it? And could it be true, as some now claim,
that many modern-day technical advancements--from lasers to
fiber optics, integrated circuit chips to Velcro--have evolved
from scientific examination and reverse engineering studies of a
now hidden spacecraft?

As the story goes, William "Mac" Brazel, who leased the Foster
Ranch at the time, was on horseback herding sheep when he
happened onto a large field of strewn debris unlike anything
he'd ever seen. He would later tell neighbors Floyd and Loretta
Proctor it was clearly something that had fallen from the sky;
perhaps the cause of the too-loud-to-be-thunder boom he'd heard
during the previous night's rainstorm.

Brazel allegedly showed the Proctors some of the pieces he'd
collected, metallic but thin as tinfoil. They watched in
amazement as he wrinkled one, laid it on a table and saw it
immediately smooth to its original shape. And there were the
pieces of stick-like material, no heavier than balsa wood,
bendable but impossible to break or cut with a knife. On some
were what he later compared to Indian petroglyphs, series of
strange symbols and pastel-colored drawings.

The neighbors, aware of the flying-saucer mania then sweeping
the nation, suggested he tell authorities. Thus, two days later,
on the morning of July 7, 1947, Brazel made the 60-mile drive to
Roswell and told Chaves County Sheriff George Wilcox of his
discovery, showing him several pieces of the strange debris he
had collected. Wilcox phoned Major Jesse Marcel at the nearby
air base and suggested he might want to speak with the 48-year-
old rancher.

After examining the material and hearing Brazel's description of
the size of the debris field--three-quarters of a mile long and
200 to 300 feet wide, with a lengthy "gouge" in the ground at
its north end--Marcel arranged to meet Brazel at the ranch.

Thereafter the story becomes a blur that historians are still
attempting to sort out. According to evidence gathered by
numerous researchers--both scientists and laymen collectively
calling themselves UFOlogists--a small, elite group of military
personnel was assigned to guard the area, collect the debris and
take it to the base. There, orders had already been received
from Brigadier General Roger Ramey, commanding officer of the
8th Air Force, that everything recovered was to be flown
immediately to what would later become Carswell Air Force Base
in Fort Worth.

Still, the story might never have created a worldwide frenzy had
the base public information officer, Lieutenant Walter Haut, not
issued a startling press release that appeared beneath a banner
headline in the next day's edition of the Roswell Daily Record:
"RAAF Captures Flying Saucer On Ranch in Roswell Region."

Haut's press release, ordered by Colonel William Blanchard, the
base commanding officer, made it clear that something more than
pieces of scattered debris had been found. "The intelligence
office of the 509th Bombardment group at Roswell Army Air Field
announced at noon today that the field has come into possession
of a flying saucer," it read. The release went on to explain
that "Major Marcel and a detail from his department went to the
ranch and discovered the disc."

Soon, calls were coming to Haut from news agencies throughout
the world.

Now 80 and co-founder of the International UFO Museum and
Research Center in Roswell, Haut says, "After meeting with
Colonel Blanchard in his office and getting the information for
the press release, I wrote it and went to town around five that
afternoon to deliver it to the radio and newspaper people.

"That done, I went on home and was having dinner when people
from all over the world started calling. Finally, about
midnight, my wife, who was getting a little unhappy with the
flood of calls, just took the phone off the hook and told me we
were going to bed."

Then, just as quickly as the excitement had developed, it came
to a crashing end with a Fort Worth news conference called by
General Ramey the following day. Despite claims by Marcel to
investigators years later that the amount of debris loaded onto
the B-29 that was flown from Roswell to Fort Worth "was
enormous," half filling the huge plane, reporters and
photographers who gathered in the general's office were shown
only tattered remnants of a weather balloon and given a smiling
apology for all the unwarranted excitement. In attendance was
Major Marcel, admitting he had been mistaken.

The official version of the Roswell incident thus became that a
military weather balloon launched to detect wind velocity and
direction at high altitudes had come crashing down on Foster
Ranch. End of story. The headline in the next day's Roswell
paper was as definitive but not nearly as exciting as the one
published the day before: "Gen. Ramey Empties Roswell Saucer."
In a more innocent and patriotic time, with World War II still
fresh in the public's mind and trust in the government blindly
indisputable, the explanation was good enough. For most. For a
time.

Anne Robbins, who until now has never spoken publicly on the
matter, says what her late husband saw 56 years ago was hardly a
downed weather balloon.

Seated in a meeting room at the newly opened Odessa Meteor
Crater Museum, the 84-year-old Robbins clearly recalls a July
night when her husband received a call to report to the base.
She would not see or hear from him for 18 hours. And when she
did, he told her bits and pieces of a bizarre story that has
puzzled her for a lifetime.

"We had been to a dinner party at the NCO [non-commissioned
officers] club on the base," she says, "and didn't get home
until 10:30 or 11. We'd already gone to bed but weren't yet
asleep when everything outside lit up like it was daylight. It
was like that for what seemed like several minutes, and we both
assumed that it was probably helicopters from the base with
searchlights on."

Soon thereafter, the phone call came to their home and her
husband told her he had to report to the base.

"I just assumed that there had been a plane crash somewhere
nearby," she says. "But I couldn't figure why my husband, a
sheet-metal man who repaired planes, was called in."

She was even more puzzled when he returned home the following
evening, his uniform wrinkled and damp. "I asked him what had
happened to him, why he was so wet, and he told me he'd had to
go through the decontamination tank at the base. I asked, 'In
your clothes?' and he said, 'They were what I was wearing when I
was out there.'"

Still assuming that he'd been called to the site of a plane
crash, she quizzed him further. "He told me, 'Well, I guess you
might as well know; it's going to be in the papers. A UFO
crashed outside of Roswell.'"

Her response? "I told him he was crazy."

"No," Sergeant Robbins replied, "I'm not." Then he showered and
went to bed.

"I don't remember him being particularly shocked or very
emotional about it," she says. "In fact, he seemed cool as a
cucumber. He just made it clear to me that he wasn't going to
talk about it."

The following morning she continued to press for details. "I
asked him again if it was really true and he said, yes, it was."
When she asked what the UFO looked like, he explained that "if
you took two saucers and put them together, that's what it
looked like." On the top layer, he told her, there were oblong-
shaped windows all the way around the craft. And, no, he said,
he had not looked inside the crashed ship.

"I asked him if there was anybody on it. He said, 'I can tell
you this much: There were three people. One was dead and two
were still alive. I can't tell you anything more.'"

It was not until several days later that Sergeant Robbins
finally agreed to drive his wife out to the crash site. By then,
all debris had been cleared away and neither a spaceship nor
signs of military personnel was evident. "He didn't say much of
anything until we got to a place where there was this big burned
spot, a perfect circle so black that it was shiny. No normal
fire could have made something like that." It was, she says, as
if the sand had been melted and turned into a sheet of black
glass.

"This," Sergeant Robbins said, "is where I was for 18 hours."

"On the drive home," she says, "I asked him what happened to the
spaceship, what happened to the people who were on it. Her
husband's reply: "I can't tell you that; don't ask me any more."

It was the last time her husband spoke of "the Roswell incident"
until long after he'd retired from the service. Until his death
of a heart attack two years ago, he never told his wife who was
with him that night or what role he had played.

Following his retirement from the Air Force in 1961, they moved
to Saginaw, near Fort Worth, and he worked first for General
Dynamics, then LTV, as an aircraft repairman.

"It was years later, when our kids were in high school, that our
son Ronald was working on some kind of report on unidentified
flying objects and asked his father to tell him about what
happened back in Roswell. He didn't say much, basically just
what he'd told me years earlier," she says.

"But you know how kids are. Ronald kept asking questions, like
what the men found at the crash looked like. Finally, Papa [as
she referred to her husband throughout their 57-year marriage]
got a pencil and drew this pear-shaped head with large black
eyes. Their skin, he said, was brown and they had no nose, no
mouth.

"When Ronald asked him what their bodies looked like, all he
would say was, 'Son, you don't want to know about that.'"

The Robbins' son, now living in Arizona, could not be reached by
the Dallas Observer. "He wouldn't talk to you about it, anyway,"
his mother insists. Neither of her children, in fact, has ever
spoken publicly of their father's alleged involvement in the
Roswell incident. "Barbara, my daughter, tells me, 'Daddy's
dead, don't bring it up.'"

"All I remember," says Barbara Wattlington, "was Dad saying he
was stationed in Roswell and that a UFO crashed there."

The last time Anne Robbins remembers any conversation about the
matter was a few years before her husband's death in January
2000, when they sat in their Saginaw living room one evening,
watching television. A show whose title she can't recall was on,
re-creating the Roswell event and posing the question of whether
it was an ageless hoax or the well-hidden truth. "I asked him,
'Was it a hoax?' and all he said was, 'It's the truth. It did
land.'

"I asked him, 'Well, if it did, where is it?' He again said he
couldn't tell me that."

Her husband, she says, was never one to embellish or lie;
neither prankster nor teller of tall tales. "He was a good,
Christian man. He loved the military and his country and never
spoke bad about either." No, she says, he would never have made
up such a story. Nor, if ordered not to, would he have ever
talked of matters he was told to keep secret. "That's just the
way he was," she says. "On the day he died, the last thing he
told me was that he wanted me to promise to fly the flag in
front of our house until I drew my last breath."

Though she insists she has never researched the numerous
theories of the Roswell crash presented in the countless books
or documentaries, she does admit that she has lingering
questions she hopes will one day be answered. "That UFO they
found didn't just fly away," she says. "So where is it? And what
happened to the people on it? I still say the Air Force knows
what happened. Someday, I hope, we might find out the truth."

Two years ago she did get an answer to one question that had
long bothered her. "I could never figure out why an airplane
repairman would be called out in the middle of the night to
participate in the investigation of a crashed UFO," she says.
Only after filing her husband's death certificate with military
officials in Washington, D.C., did she learn that he had
intelligence clearance during his Roswell tenure.

Still, if Anne Robbins had embarked on a thorough study of the
massive collection of research done on the fabled Roswell crash,
she would not find her husband's name among any of the
"witnesses" who have come forward over the years. Yet the
sketchy details he gave her generally mesh with most of the
reconstructed stories found in the ever-growing volume of
literature devoted to the crash investigation.

It was not until 1978, three decades after the brief flurry of
interest in the crashed UFO-turned-weather balloon, that Jesse
Marcel, the intelligence officer who had been at the center of
the original event, came forward with a story far different from
the one told attendees of the Carswell news conference.

The material flown from Roswell to Fort Worth was never actually
shown to the media, he confided to nuclear physicist-turned-UFO
investigator Stanton Friedman. It was, instead, quietly
delivered to a research laboratory at Wright-Patterson Army Air
Force Base in Dayton, Ohio.

Marcel's revised recollections of the 1947 event, along with
those of others who had finally chosen to speak out, ultimately
appeared in the 1980 book The Roswell Incident co-authored by
William Moore and Charles Berlitz, setting off a renewed
appetite for information. Soon it came in a virtual flood of
eyewitness reports and recollections of family members who, like
Anne Robbins, began revealing secrets they had long been told to
keep. The Roswell story exploded into the best-known alleged UFO
encounter in history.

According to the story now told by researchers, ranging from the
serious to those writing for the supermarket tabloids, things
far more bizarre had already occurred before Mac Brazel
discovered the debris field. Those who have written about the
event in the years since suggest a fascinating sequence of
events that occurred in the early days of that July:

For several nights, Roswell residents had reportedly seen a
strange flying object in the night sky. Though no one would know
about it for 30 years, two Franciscan Catholic nuns, working at
the local St. Mary's Hospital, even made notations in their
diaries that at some time after 11 p.m. on July 4, 1947, they
had seen a large flash in the night sky, assuming that it was a
plane in distress.

What Roswell AAF radar operator Frank Kaufmann said he saw was
even more remarkable. On that same evening he was tracking the
strange movement of a mysterious object flying at an incredible
rate of speed. Suddenly it began losing altitude and the blip on
the radar screen enlarged into a large starburst pattern that
suggested an explosion had occurred. It was estimated that the
event had occurred somewhere within a 100-mile range northwest
of the base and a search team was immediately dispatched.

Jim Ragsdale would later tell of seeing what occurred at much
closer range. He and his girlfriend, on a rock-hunting trip,
were parked at a secluded campsite on what was known as Boy
Scout Mountain, when they saw a flash, then heard a thundering
explosion. Within seconds, Ragsdale would later tell
researchers, the UFO skipped along the desert not far away, then
came to rest at the base of a nearby bluff. Grabbing
flashlights, he and his girlfriend made their way to the crash
site where he says a saucer-shaped vehicle had come to rest. Not
only did he eventually tell of seeing the crashed UFO but the
bodies of several "childlike" passengers. After picking up a few
pieces of debris from the wreckage, the young couple decided to
return to their pickup and wait until daylight for a better
look.

When they did return, Ragsdale later wrote in a sworn affidavit,
they saw a military convoy arriving and briefly hid to watch
before deciding to leave (taking with them pieces of the debris
he says they later showed to numerous people in a nearby bar).
Had they remained, the story goes, they would have eventually
seen the UFO hoisted by crane onto the bed of a flatbed truck
and the bodies placed in another military vehicle that was
ordered to quickly return to the Roswell base hospital.

The actual crash site, then, had been swept clear by military
personnel hours before Mac Brazel rode up on the debris field
several miles away. Later, researchers would assume that the
craft had apparently first hit on the Foster Ranch, sliding
along for a distance, then had briefly managed to become
airborne again before crashing.

If the material found in such books as The Truth About the UFO
Crash at Roswell, Crash at Corona, Beyond Roswell, and Alien
Contact: Top Secret UFO Files Revealed is to be believed, the
interplanetary visit was, in many respects, a pretty poorly kept
secret from the get-go. The only problem is, it was years before
folks would talk about it.

Yet, before their deaths, numerous people or their descendants
recounted anecdotes of involvement in and observations made
during the strange event.

For instance, long after his father's death in 1986, Dr. Jesse
Marcel Jr., 66, still tells of Major Marcel stopping by the
house on an early July morning in 1947 to show him and his
mother pieces of the crash debris that he had collected. Eleven
years old at the time, Dr. Marcel recalled his father bringing
pieces of the downed "flying disc" from his car and spreading
them on the kitchen floor. He recalled handling the aluminum
foil-like material and seeing the unusual symbols on what he
said looked like pieces of black plastic.

Now living in Helena, Montana, Dr. Marcel says the most
remarkable memory he has of the pieces his father showed him was
of the geometric-like symbols on some of them. "I've always
referred to them as I-beams," he says, "though I have no idea
what they really were.

"My father was very excited about what they had found," Dr.
Marcel says, "and since our house was on the way to the base, he
just decided to stop by and show it to us. Then he took it on
out to the base."

Major Marcel's excitement, however, was quickly muted. "The next
day," his son remembers, "he sat down with my mother and me and
told us we were never to talk about what he'd shown us. He said,
'Don't think about it. It didn't happen.'"

Today, Dr. Marcel remains convinced that the material his father
showed him came from another world.

Then there is the story that the late Sergeant Melvin Brown
waited until 1970 to tell his daughters. Retired and living in
England, he said that he had been at the crash site in '47 and
was assigned to guard the alien bodies as they were being
transported back to the base. Though sworn to secrecy, he
finally told of being ordered to ride in an "ice-filled truck"
that was to take the bodies to a hangar. On the trip, Brown told
his daughter Beverly Bean, he had lifted a tarp and seen "two,
possibly three bodies."

And there were others who would eventually tell of seeing the
alien bodies, including Roswell AAF radar operator Kaufmann, who
would later claim to have been among those ordered to the crash
site where, he later told researchers Don Schmitt and Kevin
Randle, authors of UFO Crash at Roswell, he saw five small
aliens, all clearly dead.

Oliver "Pappy" Henderson, a World War II pilot assigned to the
Roswell Army Air Field at the time, allegedly told friend Dr.
John Kromschroeder during a fishing trip in 1978 that he had
flown much of the debris--and the bodies of what he only
described as "those little guys"--to Wright-Patterson aboard a
C-47. Shortly before his death in 1986, Henderson also told the
story to his wife.

In his book, The Day After Roswell, retired Colonel Philip Corso
is far more graphic as he writes of a night a sentry urged him
to enter an off-limits Wright-Patterson building where more than
30 crates of Henderson's cargo had been stacked against a wall,
draped by large tarps. When the sentry pointed to a particular
crate he'd already looked in--in clear violation of orders he'd
been given --Corso opened it and shined a flashlight on its
contents.

"My stomach rolled right up into my throat, and I almost became
sick," he writes. "[Inside] was a coffin, but not like any
coffin I'd ever seen before. The contents, enclosed in a thick
glass container, were submerged in a thick light blue liquid...

"At first I thought it was a dead child they were shipping
somewhere. But it was no child. It was a 4-foot human-shaped
figure with arms, bizarre-looking four-fingered hands--I didn't
see a thumb--thin legs and feet and an oversized incandescent
light bulb-shaped head...the eyesockets were oversized and
almond-shaped..."

Perhaps the most provocative story came not from a member of the
military but, instead, a Roswell mortician named Glenn Dennis.
Twenty-two at the time and director of the local Ballard Funeral
Home, he told of receiving a telephone call from the base on the
afternoon of July 5, 1947, asking if he could provide several
"small," hermetically sealed caskets. Thirty minutes later, he
would eventually recall to numerous researchers and journalists,
he answered a second call, this time with a series of questions
about the techniques of embalming and preserving dead bodies and
if such processes would alter the chemical contents of blood and
tissue. Finally, he reported, he was asked what happened to body
tissue after it had been exposed to the elements.

Curious, Dennis says he asked if there was something he could
help with and was told the questions were only "for future
reference."

Later that day, Dennis recalled, he had driven an injured airman
to the base infirmary. While there, he noticed an unusual amount
of activity at the base hospital. Encountering a nurse named
Naomi Selff in the hallway, she was clearly surprised to see him
and warned that "he wasn't supposed to be there and had better
leave immediately."

Minutes later, his story went, he was escorted by two military
police all the way back to the funeral home.

It was not until the following day that he learned what had been
happening. He phoned nurse Selff and they agreed to meet for
lunch. Obviously distraught, she told him of seeing three small
bodies, two of which were badly mutilated, and of being ordered
by attending military doctors to take notes while they conducted
their examinations. The stench of the corpses, she allegedly
told him, had been almost more than she could stand. Before he
returned her to her barrack, Dennis recalled, she drew sketches
of the aliens on a prescription pad and gave them to him with a
warning that he should "show them to no one."

That, the mortician says, was the last time he ever saw her.
After numerous unsuccessful attempts to reach her by phone, he
learned several days later that she had suddenly been reassigned
to duty in England. Shortly thereafter, he was told that she had
died there in a plane crash.

Co-founder of the Roswell museum with Haut, Dennis is currently
in poor health and was unable to speak with the Observer about
his well-chronicled story.

But for every true believer there are skeptics, researchers who
have picked away at the colorful, unimaginable stories in search
of their flaws. And they have found many. Among the debunkers is
Kal K. Korff, author of The Roswell UFO Crash: What They Don't
Want You to Know. He not only questions why so many waited so
long to come forward with the stories but points out that many
of them are, like that of Anne Robbins, hand-me-down tales
allegedly kept secret until the firsthand witnesses were dead.

Korff's questions are valid: Why have some of the reported
witness accounts described the downed UFO as "saucer-shaped"
while others remember it being "triangular-shaped with small
wings?" While most who claimed to have seen the bodies recall
there being three, others say they saw as many as five. Some say
all were dead, others that one or more was still alive.
Descriptions of the color of the small bodies range from gray to
brown. How could mortician Haut have "lost" something as
important as the drawings he says his nurse friend made and gave
to him? And if, in fact, so many civilians collected pieces of
the strange-looking debris, why has not a single piece of it
ever surfaced?

It was not until 1994 that an Air Force investigation into the
aging Roswell affair resulted in an announcement that the
material found on the Foster Ranch was, in fact, a crashed high-
altitude test balloon that would eventually be able to monitor
Soviet nuclear testing. Actually a chain of radar-equipped
balloons, it had been launched on July 4, 1947, and was tracked
to within 17 miles of the Foster Ranch before disappearing.

When the explanation failed to satisfy many "believers," the Air
Force released yet another report in '97, this one titled The
Roswell Report--Case Closed, in which it attempted to answer the
lingering question of the "bodies" allegedly seen at the crash
site. What the so-called witnesses had seen, according to the
report, were nothing more than crash-test dummies that were part
of a military experiment in parachute and ejector seat designs.

That, too, failed to satisfy those determined that the
governmental cover-up continued. Such tests, several military
researchers argued, had not even begun until the mid-'50s.

"The reason the interest in the Roswell case remains and, in
fact, seems to grow," says Mark Rodeghier, scientific director
of the Chicago-based Center for UFO Studies, "is the fact the
government has never given a reasonable explanation of what
occurred that summer of 1947."

Thus it continues, an unexplained event that has turned into an
industry. What happened or didn't happen 56 years ago has lured
1.3 million to the International UFO Museum and Research Center
since it opened in 1992. A guided tour of the desolate "crash
site" is now available. Then, there was the long-lost film of
the "autopsy" of one of the Roswell aliens that was shown on
television worldwide before being discounted as fake, and a
stream of new books and articles that continues to flow.
Clearly, the public loves the mystery. According to a recent
poll, a large percentage of the U.S. population continues to
believe something unworldly occurred that July on the Foster
Ranch.

Walter Haut, one of the few major figures in the long-ago story
still living, is among them. "I'm sure," he says, "that over the
years much of the story has been exaggerated. But, yes, I
believe that something happened out there in 1947." And he's not
speaking of a weather balloon crash.







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   Apr > Apr 8

              Re: Boylan, Rodwell and Innocent Children - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 21:56:09 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 20:09:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Boylan, Rodwell and Innocent Children - Hall


 >From: Janet Carter <JanetECarter@aol.com>
 >Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 10:42:55 EDT
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Subject: Re: Boylan, Rodwell and Innocent Children

 >>From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 05:25:12 +0200
 >>Subject: Re: Boylan, Rodwell and Innocent Children

 >>Didn't we talk about his interaacting with "Star Kids" on here
 >>in the past? I vaguely remember he was going to do some sessions
 >>with them at some place in the coast range of mountains below
 >>San Francisco in one of the three California coumties I was the
 >>MUFON State Section Director (whoop de doo) of back in another
 >>century. I think I said on here that I would let the researcher
 >>who replaced me know about it. I did.

 >I've been a lurker for a while, so I'm new to the fray... but
 >not to the issue of "abductions" and contact experiences of both
 >adults and children.

 >There are two issues that seem to be getting murked up in this
 >thread. One is the reputation of Richard Boylan. You all
 >obviously have had experiences that I have not with the man. I
 >have only known him from participating in his newslist for
 >almost 4 years. What I _will_ say is that I have had serious
 >reservations of my own, based alone on his actions on the List.

 >The second is what constitutes an appropriate response by the
 >adults in their world, to children who are "contactees".

 >To me, that is the relevant issue here, and I would hope this
 >discussion could evolve without contaminating it with the
 >tarnished reputation of one individual. Pardon the pun, but I
 >would hope we wouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water.

 >As a psychotherapist (clinical social worker), _and_ a contactee
 >since childhood, there are obviously immense issues at work in
 >dealing with the spectrum of experiences people of all ages have
 >with E/T presences. The idea that children are contactees is not
 >just the product of a manipulative delusion...and the idea that
 >all contact is de facto horrifically traumatic also doesn't
 >represent the reality of the spectrum of experiences that
 >people, including children, report.

Janet,

Thanks for "de-lurking" and sharing your thoughts with us. I will
be very interested to hear what you have to say, and to discuss
facts and issues with you, on or off-line.

  - Dick Hall









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   Apr > Apr 8

                     Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 19:12:51 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 20:15:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Maccabee


 >From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 05:45:42 -0800
 >Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux

 >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 19:43:58 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux

<snip>

 >I have just asked Peter Gersten to file one, but also request
 >Larry Bryant to file one as well.

 >I have asked for the following minimum information:

 >On March 13, 1997...

 >1) Time of departure of Maryland ANG A-10 airplanes from Davis-
 >   Monthan AFB in Tucson, Arizona.

 >2) Time of return of A-10s to DM AFB.

 >3) Location of exercise on Barry Goldwater range.

 >4) Type and number of flares carried by each airplane.

 >5) Exact time and location of flare ejection during exercise.

 >If we could just obtain this, then we would have some factual
 >data on that flare drop.

Good idea! Let's hope we get some real info for a change!







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   Apr > Apr 8

                 Re: CFI-Podesta/Mattoon Follow-Up - Aldrich

From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 19:50:38 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 20:21:14 -0400
Subject: Re: CFI-Podesta/Mattoon Follow-Up - Aldrich


 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 15:38:46 -0400
 >Subject: Re: CFI-Podesta/Mattoon Follow-Up

 >>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 20:56:30 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: CFI-Podesta/Mattoon Follow-Up - Kaeser

 >>John Velez wrote (in part):

 >>>Hello All,

 >>>I received the following message from Ted Roe of NARCAP in
 >>>reference to the issues that were raised last month about how
 >>>and why CFI and Podesta/Mattoon had chosen the Kecksburg case to
 >>>go to the government with. Ted, Jan Aldrich, EBK and myself
 >>>conducted a dialog on 'Strange Days... Indeed' where Ted stated
 >>>that he was going to post a formal invitation for ufologists to
 >>>submit cases for consideration and possible inclusion in the
 >>>government inquiry process that has been initiated by CFI.

 >><snip>

 >>John

 >>I understand your frustrations, and we'll have to simply agree
 >>to disagree on a number of points. We've debated this on the
 >>UpDates forum previously and our positions haven't changed.

 >>It should be noted that while the UFO Coalition (or at least
 >>members of that group) are hopeful that support from the Sci-Fi
 >>Channel through CFI and Podesta-Mattoon can help with future
 >>projects, there has been little spent thus far. Indeed, the sum
 >>total of outlay among Coalition Members has been the cost of a
 >>single breakfast meeting that only three of us were able to
 >>attend.

 >>Since you feel so passionately about this subject, I would
 >>encourage you to boycott the Sci-Fi Channel's programming, as
 >>well as that of the Discovery Network (Learning Channel, History
 >>Channel, etc). They have also been known to take information
 >>from researchers for their own profit without presenting the
 >>genre in a positive light. Several researchers that I know have
 >>vowed to never give interviews to a number of producers for that
 >>very reason. I guess that leaves us with PBS, but we know how
 >>they've treated the subject matter.

 >I have been refusing to participate in _any_ UFO programming
 >that is not being presented as "news" for over five years now. I
 >get asked/invited fairly regularly and the very first question
 >that I always ask is, "Is the subject being presented as news or
 >entertainment?" Because they invariably respond with,
 >"entertainment" is why you don't see me on TV any longer. :)

 >They serve their own selfish purposes. I have just chosen to
 >serve a different master in life, Steve. _Truth_

 >Life is way too short for anything else.


Please let me put my two cents in here. I have no problem with
CFI, the SCI-FI Channel, etc. I had a bone to pick with the
write up about Kecksburg, especially the history of the 4602
Air Intelligence Service Squadron and Project Moondust. I
expressed these privately to CFI and several other people
including John.

CFI did ask us for a proposal on UFO research. Several members
of the Sign Historical Group worked on this proposal which was
done hurriedly. We proposed to examine over 20 areas which might
be organized into three major overall groupings. The areas are
all involved with government information which could possibly be
obtained by the use of intensive research at various archives,
political influence, FOIA requests, lawsuits or a combination of
these techniques. I produced a matrix, my best guesses on the
importance of the task to UFO history, how far the task has
progressed to date, the difficulty of the task, the probability
of the need for used of the various research techniques and to
what extent a combination of such techniques was needed, etc.

Examples of the tasks involved are "Locating Gun Camera Film of
UFOs," locating various files on UFOs in a number government
agency records, etc.

So far the proposal is still under consideration. We learned one
thing, such proposals need to be carefully developed and
reviewed. It is also necessary to bring the possible grantor up
to speed on the background of the proposal. In the military the
old saying is that, "You can have it good or you can have it
fast, decide what you want!" We did ours fast. If nothing comes
of it, "we will do it good" and post it on the SHG site.

We worked and continue to work on most of these proposed tasks.
Funding and support would, of course, ensure that some of these
tasks would progress faster. Some areas may be dead-ends. Again,
funding would help determine this so we could move on to other
things.


Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
http://www.project1947.com/
P. O. Box 391
Canterbury, CT 06331
(860) 546-9135







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                      How Will Aliens View Human Race?

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 20:28:04 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 20:28:04 -0400
Subject: How Will Aliens View Human Race?



Source: The Honolulu Advertiser

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2003/Apr/08/tc/tc01a.html

Posted on: Tuesday, April 8, 2003

BYTE MARKS
How Will Aliens View Human Race?

By Burt Lum

Have you ever pondered the thought of extraterrestrial beings
watching our newscasts and radio broadcasts, trying to make
sense of what is going on here?

I wonder what they would say about Earth and the creatures that
inhabit it. Would we be considered exploitative, destructive,
intolerant and hostile? How would we be judged if we were put on
trial for the proper stewardship of this planet and the ability
to work well together as a species toward that end?

These questions pop into my mind, triggered by current events
and an e-mail I received from the SETI@Home project. As you may
recall, SETI stands for the Search for Extraterrestrial
Intelligence. The SETI@Home project, at setiathome.berkeley.edu,
is a program that enlists the help of home computers in the
analysis of data from the Arecibo radio telescope on Puerto
Rico, www.naic.edu

An immense amount of data has been collected. Analyzing it
requires either a supercomputer or a means of distributing the
problem amongst many individual personal computers. Hence, the
SETI@Home project. Since May 1999, home computers have been
crunching data produced by the SETI team _ make using of times
when the computers' owners aren't using them.

Four years later, the team had whittled the problem down to a
few hundred potential locations in the sky. This was no easy
task. They begin with more than 5 billion potential candidates.
Their method for selection is outlined in detail at:
planetary.org/stellarcountdown

March 18-20, the SETI team took this list back to the Arecibo
telescope to gather more data on the most promising candidates.
Their results, if successful, may provide proof of the existence
of intelligence beyond our planet. I always have thought that if
we could only realize our place in the broad scheme of things,
perhaps we could do more about protecting our blue planet.

I think back to visionaries like Carl Sagan, who help found the
Planetary Society. In his words, this is "a search for a cosmic
context for mankind." In that context, how will mankind be
viewed? ;-)

Burt Lum is one click away at burt@brouhaha.net


[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]









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               Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 23:01:35 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 20:13:38 -0400
Subject: Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line - Hall


 >From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 15:25:05 -0400
 >Subject: Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line

 >List,

 >Please let me clarify what I said yesterday concerning Richard
 >Hall, in case anyone misinterpreted my words.

 >Of course, at times I wondered (after learning of the CIA
 >security clearance probe of Hall via an FOIA document that
 >someone published), but those who read my communication of
 >yesterday carefully will realize that I did not say that Dick is
 >a CIA agent, and I cautioned on the subject, even, of  any
 >conceivable compliance by Dick in a CIA cover-up, "I'm not sure
 >of such a thing..."

"Someone published?" All too typical of Stanford's mendacity.
See Richard Hall, Uninvited Guests (Aurora Press, 1988), pp.
351-358, wherein I report this entire episode, which is no
secret to anyone knowledgable about UFO history. I deeply resent
Stanford's attempted smear job and character assassination on
this issue.

 >I certainly don't think of Dick as a CIA agent, but had wondered
 >when I heard about the clearance having been sought, whether he
 >might at least temporarily have been compliant with agency
 >wishes. In other words, I was sharing some of the quandary I
 >went through upon learning that a CIA clearance had been sought
 >for him.

Oh, suddenly when faced with possible rebuttal by me, now I am
not such a sycophant, ignoramus, and dupe as Stanford portrayed
me in his book. By the way, Ray, can you tell me the account
number of my secret CIA bank account in Switzerland? I need to
draw down some funds so I can avoid the poorhouse. And also, did
Allen Hynek send you a letter about Socorro, or are we once
again asked to believe that he told you something on the phone
that no one else ever heard or knows about?

 >If I were writing yesterday's post today, I might well leave
 >out all reference to a possible CIA connection; but my anger was
 >somewhat awakened by Dick's post. We are both human, though,
 >and, after sleeping on it, I am trying to forgive Dick's
 >off-the-cuff remarks, and I hope Dick will forgive any
 >indiscretion that he might feel I showed in my response on
 >UFO UpDates.

My remarks are never "off-the-cuff." Previously I had thought
that Stanford was honestly mistaken. Now I am not so sure
anymore.

 >I still hope Dick will accept my challenge for a debate at the
 >MUFON conference. I think a gentlemanly debate would be to the
 >credit of Ufology.

There is no way that I will let you dictate the terms of debate
between us. I disputed the accuracy of your claims about
Socorro, and now you are accusing me of all sorts of dishonesty.
You have slapped me in the face with your attacks against my
honesty, integrity, and character. I take that very personally.

- Dick

 >Ray Stanford

 >"You know my method.  It is founded upon the observance of
 >trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery

You know my method. It is founded upon the Big Lie technique and
attacking other peoples character. - Stanford









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              Re: Press Release - Frivolous Litigation Fails -

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@charter.net>
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 21:53:26 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 07:11:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Press Release - Frivolous Litigation Fails -


 >From: Royce J. Myers III - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 14:07:33 -0700
 >Subject: Press Release - Frivolous Litigation Fails

 >UFOWATCHDOG.COM PREVAILS IN COURT
 >Frivolous Litigation Fails To Silence Website

 >Touting himself as "one of America's greatest psychics", Sean
 >David Morton didn't have the ability to foretell his own future
 >when he filed a one-million dollar defamation lawsuit against
 >the Internet website UFOWATCHDOG.COM and its editor Royce J.
 >Myers III.


<snip>

Bravo! Royce! now does one of 'America's Greatest physic'... er,
'Psychics' have to pay the legal fees?


GT McCoy

P.S. Good to have you back.







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               Re: For The Military Conspiracy People - Hebert

From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com>
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 01:10:30 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 07:12:49 -0400
Subject: Re: For The Military Conspiracy People - Hebert


 >From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 14:30:21 -0300
 >Subject: Re: For The Military Conspiracy People

 >>From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 02:16:13 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: For The Military Conspiracy People

 >>>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 19:01:38 -0300
 >>>Subject: Re: For The Military Conspiracy People

 >>>what's the point of showing them off to the civilian
 >>>populations in towns and cites of the world.

 >>Maybe the point is the result.

 >Hi Amy,

 >If that's a defense of the covert development theory by the
 >United States of some new aerial technology, I'm not buying it.
 >Again, the current technology does not support it.

Never asked you to buy anything, Don, only to keep the
possibilities open.

Since neither you nor I are privy to all classified information,
it would be rather presumptuous to assume either of us knows
everything there is to know about man-made technologies.
Therefore, nothing can be ruled out in the search for the truth.

 >If you are suggesting that these are being developed by the
 >United States to scare the populations of the world, and soften
 >them up to some alien invasion, I'm not buying that either.

Never suggested that, Don. The one theory has nothing to do with
the other. I'm surprised you still associate the two.

I'm referring to comparisons of descriptions of UFO's to
descriptions of various man-made technologies through a careful
study of patents, press releases and government contracts
accessible to the public. Not all of the latest developments in
technology are clearly stated in aviation magazines, web sites,
press releases, etc. but many sources may contain important
pieces of the puzzle. It is our job as researchers and
investigators to keep abreast of those developments and how they
may reflect in some of the objects sighted.

Not only is it important to be aware of what may be man-made
technologies, we must also examine developments in defense
related technologies and intelligence fields such as psychology,
biomimetrics, CC&D, and strategic research objectives (SRO's).
Beyond the mere nuts and bolts of technology is a complex
synergy few have yet to acknowledge let alone comprehend.

 >If it's some ET technology looking to show their supiority-then
 >they are in bad need of a good public relations or advertising
 >firm, because they are lousy at it.

Yeah, they suck. ;>


A. Hebert







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   Apr > Apr 9

                 Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 15 - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 23:40:17 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 07:14:10 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 15 - Hatch


 >From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 14:24:03 +0100
 >Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 15

 >Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor.

 ><Masinaigan@aol.com>
 >==========================

 >   UFO ROUNDUP
 >Volume 8, Number 15  April 9, 2003
 >Editor: Joseph Trainor
 >E-mail: Masinaigan@aol.com

 >http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/

 >UFOs FLY AS ALLIED BOMBS HIT THE LITTLE ZAB VALLEY

<snip>

 >..  Hopefully, we won't see a repeat of the bloodbath in
 >Dulce, New Mexico that reportedly took place in September
 >1969, when then-President Richard M. Nixon sent a brigade
 >of U.S. Marines to destroy a group of aliens that took
 >over an underground U.S. laboratory. ..


Huh?

I certainly hope not.


- Larry Hatch

= = =






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              Re: Press Release - Frivolous Litigation Fails -

From: A. J. Gevaerd <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 07:26:30 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 08:52:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Press Release - Frivolous Litigation Fails -


 >From: Royce J. Myers III - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 14:07:33 -0700
 >Subject: Press Release - Frivolous Litigation Fails

 >UFOWATCHDOG.COM PREVAILS IN COURT
 >Frivolous Litigation Fails To Silence Website

<snip>

 >On April 1, 2003, Myers was notified of Judge Nishimoto's final
 >ruling, which was in favor of UFOWATCHDOG.COM. In a two-page
 >ruling and the initial ruling, Judge Nishimoto stated that
 >Morton had "not shown that he can prevail or show actual malice
 >or that the matters complained of are not true....."

 >"Obviously, Judge Nishimoto made the appropriate decision.
 >California's SLAPP statute gives a fair and open opportunity for
 >the plaintiff to make their case. Mr. Morton created an
 >opportunity for himself to prove the veracity of his claims
 >publicly and he couldn't do it. Not only does the court's ruling
 >vindicate UFOWATCHDOG.COM, it also serves to demonstrate that
 >you can't extort people into silence by suing them."


Absolutely extraordinary! Congratulations!

It proves that serious UFO investigation can't be easily
replaced by bogus info and phony characters. Royce Myers III is
a key person in the worldwide UFO community, someone who has not
given up on the truth, no matter what it costs.

Dr. J. A. Hynek once said that science and scientists will
eventually, far in the future, realize that they are indebted to
UFO researchers. Well, I believe that ufology and UFO
researchers will eventually, perhaps not-so-far in the future,
realize that they are in debt with people like Myers.

Thanks for keeping it clean, Royce!

A. J.







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   Apr > Apr 9

                        Loftus Faces Pending Lawsuit

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 13:48:08 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 13:48:08 -0400
Subject: Loftus Faces Pending Lawsuit




Source: New University - University of California, Irvine

http://horus.vcsa.uci.edu/article.php?id=3D915

April 9, 2003

UCI Professor Faces Pending Lawsuit

Controversial psychologist is accused of libel and invasion of
privacy by alleged abuse victim.

by: Jamie Claridad
Staff Writer

UCI's Distinguished Professor in Social Ecology Elizabeth
Loftus, widely known for her studies in false memory research,
is currently facing an impending lawsuit filed against her by
Nicole Taus in Solano County, Calif.

No stranger to controversy, Loftus has come to the defense of
some of the nation's most high-profile individuals, among them
Ted Bundy, the Menendez Brothers and Michael Jackson.

Although Taus could not be reached for comment, a plaintiff
report filed at the superior court of California in Solano
County accused Loftus and several other parties of invasion of
privacy, defamation, libel per se, negligent and intentional
infliction of emotional distress and damages.

Taus, who is now currently serving as a Lieutenant in the United
States Navy Air Corp, was caught between a custody case battle
between her parents in 1979 that was later won by her father.

It was this custody battle which later attracted David Corwin
M.D. to publish an article in 1997 in the scientific journal
"Child Maltreatment," dealing with Taus' memories on childhood
abuse.

Taus was not named, nor identified in the article, except as
"Jane Doe."

The article drew interest. The journal then printed reviews
including both praise and criticism that was published in the
same journal.

It was this journal article that allegedly prompted further
research on Taus conducted by Loftus and Melvin Guyer, a
psychology professor at the University of Michigan Medical
School.

However, the research that was conducted and later published
allegedly disclosed private information that revealed Taus'
identity and as a result, have subjected her and her family to
further emotional distress from past events.

According to Corwin's case history study, Taus was six when she
was videotaped recounting her mother's abuse, which later led to
her mother loosing full custody and contact with her daughter.

Corwin then contacted Taus 11 years later to seek her permission
to use the tapes.

Taus claimed initially that while viewing the tapes, she had no
recognition of the said events but later said that she did
remember. Because of this incident, Loftus attempted to find
more proof regarding the said abuse beyond Jane Doe's
experience.

During this research, Loftus had compiled much evidence that led
her to doubt Jane Doe's story of abuse.

This research later led to the current complaint filed against
her and her leaving the University of Washington.

Lynn Crook, a journalist who has been investigating Loftus and
her alleged misbehavior, questions Loftus' research methods.
Crook, who also was subject to a custody trial between her
parents, said that Loftus had testified on her behalf and had
helped her win her case. However, she said that there was still
a number of misrepresentations and errors in her testimony.

"Her work has created enemies," Crook said. She said that
although Loftus' testimony had helped her case in the past,
Loftus had failed to accurately present her facts and
testimonies.

"Her testimony actually helped my case, however her testimonies
were inaccurate and misrepresented. She had ignored
corroborative evidence and out of the 95 words that described
the case 12 were errors," Crook said.

Crook also said Loftus' actions on the Jane Doe case drew
outcries from university officials prompting her to resign from
the University of Washington and the American Psychological
Association.

Loftus however said that Crook's behavior is harassment and
irrational.

Loftus also said that Crook has been harassing her for the past
several years and has even gone to such extreme measures such as
to registering herself under a false name in one of Loftus'
classes to monitor her.

The plaintiff report also states that, "defendants Loftus and
Guyer did not plan or conduct their research of plaintiff with
due regard for her safety and well being, and there were no
procedures in place for the defendants Loftus and Guyer or
plaintiff to monitor the project and report problems."

Moreover, the report also alleges that, "Loftus and Guyer
deliberately mischaracterized the information and records they
were obtaining and reviewing."

However, Loftus claims that she has never met Taus and that she
has always represented her as "Jane Doe" in the publication.

"I've never used her name. I wrote an expos=E9 regarding false
memory entitled "Who Abused Jane Doe," Loftus said.

She also emphasized that the current lawsuit is an attempt to
prevent her from practicing her first amendment rights.

"These allegations are a meritless attempt to chill my first
amendment rights as they tried to do so in the University of
Washington," Loftus said.

Loftus also adds that UCI is supporting her amidst this
controversy. "UCI is defending me and so is my whole
department," Loftus said. However, she stated that, "I do not
want to comment on the pending lawsuit."

Also named in the currently impending lawsuit include Melvin
Guyer who co-authored the article with Loftus, Carol Tavris,
collaborator of Guyer and Loftus, University of Washington for
allowing the research and investigation made by Loftus on the
Taus case,

Shapiro Investigation who allegedly aided Loftus in her
research, Skeptical Inquirer for publishing information on the
research and The Committee for the Scientific Investigation of
Claims of the Paranormal for distribution and supporting and
hosting speaking engagements by Loftus.






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   Apr > Apr 9

                Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 15 - Landahl

From: Erik Landahl <landahl1@attbi.com>
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 08:33:06 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 13:50:55 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 15 - Landahl


 >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 23:40:17 -0700
 >Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 15

 >>From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 14:24:03 +0100
 >>Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 15

 >>Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor.

 >><Masinaigan@aol.com>
 >>==========================

 >>   UFO ROUNDUP
 >>Volume 8, Number 15  April 9, 2003
 >>Editor: Joseph Trainor
 >>E-mail: Masinaigan@aol.com

 >>http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/

 >>UFOs FLY AS ALLIED BOMBS HIT THE LITTLE ZAB VALLEY

 ><snip>

 >>..  Hopefully, we won't see a repeat of the bloodbath in
 >>Dulce, New Mexico that reportedly took place in September
 >>1969, when then-President Richard M. Nixon sent a brigade
 >>of U.S. Marines to destroy a group of aliens that took
 >>over an underground U.S. laboratory. ..

 >Huh?

 >I certainly hope not.


If a brigade of U.S. Marines in 1969 could take out super
advanced aliens entrenched in an underground laboratory... well,
someone fell asleep at the Interstellar Flight Licensing Bureau
because those incompetent ET's shouldn't have been trusted with
a Cessna. I call for an immediate GAO study of Interstellar
Licensing practices. I don't want these guys flying anywhere
near my solar system.


- Erik Landahl







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                     Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Hamilton

From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 09:26:52 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 13:52:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Hamilton


 >From: Mike Fortson <satmike@cox.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 08:00:53 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux

 >>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 05:45:42 -0800
 >>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux

 >>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 19:43:58 -0400
 >>>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux

 ><snip>

 >>>Not aware of anyone using FOIA on the Maryland Nat. Guard. Might
 >>>work. My info is based on available information at the time
 >>>(Spring, Summer, 1997).

 >>I have just asked Peter Gersten to file one, but also request
 >>Larry Bryant to file one as well.
 ><snip>


 >Back in 1997, just after the FOIA was released by Black Vault on
 >the subject of Luke AFB's knowledge of flares on March 13, 1997,
 >I ask you about doing the same thing about the MANG unit staying
 >in Tucson. You told me that everything that it had been done and
 >everything came back zeros.

No one filed an FOIA request to the MANG as far as I know. The
response from Luke to FOIA said nothing about MANG and stated
they knew nothing about flares. This was peculiar since Luke AFB
authorizes the use of the test range.

 >Remember? No foodchits signed. No fuel chits signed. No proof of
 >temporary base housing. No one signed for anything. Thus, there
 >was no proof the MANG being there. Remember? I wrote about this
 >as it happened in alt.ufo.reports or alt.alien.visitors back in
 >the summer of 1997.

However, we know the MANG goes there for Operation Snowbird. Now
Dr. X called the squadron leader and still did not get
definitive information. No flares were mentioned. It was very
strange.

 >The FOIA request you have asked Peter to do... has already been
 >done.

Who did it? And, where can I see the request and the response?

Bill







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             Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 13:35:46 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 13:57:04 -0400
Subject: Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line - Stanford


 >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 23:01:35 +0000
 >Subject: Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line

 >>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 15:25:05 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line

 >>Please let me clarify what I said yesterday concerning Richard
 >>Hall, in case anyone misinterpreted my words.

 >>Of course, at times I wondered (after learning of the CIA
 >>security clearance probe of Hall via an FOIA document that
 >>someone published), but those who read my communication of
 >>yesterday carefully will realize that I did not say that Dick is
 >>a CIA agent, and I cautioned on the subject, even, of any
 >>conceivable compliance by Dick in a CIA cover-up, "I'm not sure
 >>of such a thing..."

 >"Someone published?" All too typical of Stanford's mendacity.
 >See Richard Hall, Uninvited Guests (Aurora Press, 1988), pp.
 >351-358, wherein I report this entire episode, which is no
 >secret to anyone knowledgable about UFO history. I deeply resent
 >Stanford's attempted smear job and character assassination on
 >this issue.

List,

I do not consider what I said to be "character assination', and
certainly did not intend it as such. In my postings on this and
elsewhere, I have always had high praise for Hall's
contributions to UFO studies, excluding his conceivably biased
judgement on this particular matter.

Someone might, however, classify Dick's first post accusing me
of "paranoid imaginings" as coming close to character
assination.

 >>I certainly don't think of Dick as a CIA agent, but had wondered
 >>when I heard about the clearance having been sought, whether he
 >>might at least temporarily have been compliant with agency
 >>wishes. In other words, I was sharing some of the quandary I
 >>went through upon learning that a CIA clearance had been sought
 >>for him.

 >Oh, suddenly when faced with possible rebuttal by me, now I am
 >not such a sycophant, ignoramus, and dupe as Stanford portrayed
 >me in his book. By the way, Ray, can you tell me the account
 >number of my secret CIA bank account in Switzerland? I need to
 >draw down some funds so I can avoid the poorhouse. And also, did
 >Allen Hynek send you a letter about Socorro, or are we once
 >again asked to believe that he told you something on the phone
 >that no one else ever heard or knows about?

Dick says I portrayed him as a "...sycophant, ignoramus, and
dupe..."! Anyone who reads that into what I have said concerning
him is not a very objective reader.

As to Hall's intimation that fear of rebuttal has made me
rescind my (alleged) characterization of him as a "...sycophant,
ignoramus, and dupe...", that's fiction because I never
characterized him that way and wouldn't. Even the
characterization Hall alleges of my comments on him is his
fiction, and I am hardly back-tracking. I still challenge him
to a public debate on the Socorro metal controversy at a MUFON
symposium.

One might wonder why Hall does not accept such an opportunity if
he really believes he is right.

 >>If I were writing yesterday's post today, I might well leave
 >>out all reference to a possible CIA connection; but my anger was
 >>somewhat awakened by Dick's post. We are both human, though,
 >>and, after sleeping on it, I am trying to forgive Dick's
 >>off-the-cuff remarks, and I hope Dick will forgive any
 >>indiscretion that he might feel I showed in my response on
 >>UFO UpDates.

 >My remarks are never "off-the-cuff."

Maybe, then, I should have used the adjective I first put in
there, but changed it to try to be more polite. What I had in
there initially was "Inflamed remarks".

 >Previously I had thought that Stanford was honestly mistaken.
 >Now I am not so sure anymore.

I stand by what I said in the book, which tells both sides of
the story. If I am mistaken, so was Hynek, and the analytical
chemists who commented on the matter.

Perhaps I also should mentioned that after the scientifically
untenable cover-up (See the book for details.) was issued (not
by Frankel but by one of his subordinates), I encouraged Hall to
check with chemists as I had done to see for himself whether the
X_ray diffraction pattern of silica dioxide could possibly be
mistaken for a zinc/iron allow diffraction pattern, but he never
told me if he did seek such professional opinion and instead
just kept insisting, as I said in the book, "Hall kept stressing
to me that we must not offend Frankel, that he might be 'needed'
later". (Socorro Saucer in A Pentagon Pantry, page 154, first
paragraph).

Hall said to me in concluding yesterday's comments with:

 >There is no way that I will let you dictate the terms of debate
 >between us. I disputed the accuracy of your claims about
 >Socorro, and now you are accusing me of all sorts of dishonesty.
 >You have slapped me in the face with your attacks against my
 >honesty, integrity, and character. I take that very personally.

I never tried to dictate any terms for the debate to which I
challenged him, only suggesting the most public and UFO-
interested possible gathering of which I could conceive (a MUFON
symposium) for a debate.

So, List members, if you feel inclined and it is acceptable to
Errol Bruce-Knapp, please proffer your opinions as to whether a
MUFON symposium would be a fair venue for such an event. I
think it would be a great opportunity for a large audience and
the media to hear both sides of the issue, first-hand, from both
the primary witnesses to those 1964 happenings.

If the facts are on Hall's side of the debate, one might expect
him to accept this chance to 'strutt his stuff' and make me out
as the victum of delusion. From the tone of his posts on this, I
should think he would relish the opportunity.

Finally, Dick modified my:

 >>"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
 >>trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery

To read:

 >You know my method. It is founded upon the Big Lie technique and
 >attacking other peoples character.

To my personal knowledge, neither I nor anyone on this List
since I've been on it has attacked Dick's character, except,
IMO, Colin Bennett.

As to Hall's "Big Lie" characterization of my statements, he may
deal in character assination if he chooses, but I prefer to deal
with the issues of a case.

Now, let me close with answering Hall's question of yesterday:

 >And also, did Allen Hynek send you a letter about Socorro, or
 >are we once again asked to believe that he told you something
 >on the phone that no one else ever heard or knows about?

As a matter of fact Allen Hynek sent me several letters
discussing Socorro. But he also (while visiting our project in
Austin, Texas) made a statement in front of witnesses concerning
the fact that he rejects the cover-up explanation, declaring,
"If I were you, I would just forget the silica dioxide story and
accept the original report of a zinc-iron allow. The X-ray
diffraction pattern of silica dioxide can't be mistaken by an
expert for that of a zinc-iron alloy."

Then, Allen chuckled, adding, "That explanation was nothing
short of silly!"

Aside from me, there were at least six other witnesses to that
statement by Hynek.

If Dick accepts the debate, I may easily be able to coax a
couple of those witnesses to Hynek's statement to attend, for
some first-hand testimony. Even if they cannot come, I will
release the names of those who grant permission to do so, and
I'm confident they will.

But I'm holding my real trump card on the Socorro metal case
until the debate, in case Dick accepts. I almost spilled it
last night on Jeff Rense's radio show, but, considering
discretion to be the better part of valor, decided to hold it
for a more important occasion such as a "hot time in the old
town" (Or, should I say "shoot-out in the MUFON Corral"?) with
Dick. :)


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Apr > Apr 9

                      Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Gates

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 13:43:48 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 13:59:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Gates


 >From: Mike Fortson <satmike@cox.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 08:00:53 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux


 >>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 05:45:42 -0800
 >>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux

 >>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 19:43:58 -0400
 >>>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux

 ><snip>

 >>>Not aware of anyone using FOIA on the Maryland Nat. Guard. Might
 >>>work. My info is based on available information at the time
 >>>(Spring, Summer, 1997).

 >>I have just asked Peter Gersten to file one, but also request
 >>Larry Bryant to file one as well.

 ><snip>

 >Back in 1997, just after the FOIA was released by Black Vault on
 >the subject of Luke AFB's knowledge of flares on March 13, 1997,
 >I ask you about doing the same thing about the MANG unit staying
 >in Tucson. You told me that everything that it had been done and
 >everything came back zeros.

 >Remember? No foodchits signed. No fuel chits signed. No proof of
 >temporary base housing. No one signed for anything. Thus, there
 >was no proof the MANG being there. Remember? I wrote about this
 >as it happened in alt.ufo.reports or alt.alien.visitors back in
 >the summer of 1997.

 >The FOIA request you have asked Peter to do... has already
 >been done.

Hi Mike, Bill, Listers,

The FOIA request in 1997 is interesting but not revelant to
today. Having done FOIA requests since the late 70s, I can tell
you that it would be worthwhile to make another request as they
very well might find something today that they didn't before.
It also helps to ask for the "right" thing.  If you don't ask
for the "right" thing they will find "nothing."


Cheers,

Robert






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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Apr > Apr 10

              Re: Press Release - Frivolous Litigation Fails -

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 13:57:26 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 07:50:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Press Release - Frivolous Litigation Fails -


 >From: Royce J. Myers III - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 14:07:33 -0700
 >Subject: Press Release - Frivolous Litigation Fails

 >UFOWATCHDOG.COM PREVAILS IN COURT
 >Frivolous Litigation Fails To Silence Website

 >Touting himself as "one of America's greatest psychics", Sean
 >David Morton didn't have the ability to foretell his own future
 >when he filed a one-million dollar defamation lawsuit against
 >the Internet website UFOWATCHDOG.COM and its editor Royce
 >J. Myers III.

Congrats Royce. It appears like Sean David Morton has fallen
into the frivolous category. I suspect that the gulliable and
"believers" will still still keep lapping the tales and storys
up. Oh well.


Cheers,

Robert







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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Apr > Apr 10

                  Re: CFI-Podesta/Mattoon Follow-Up - Gates

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 14:04:26 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 07:54:01 -0400
Subject: Re: CFI-Podesta/Mattoon Follow-Up - Gates


 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 15:38:46 -0400
 >Subject: Re: CFI-Podesta/Mattoon Follow-Up

 >>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 20:56:30 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: CFI-Podesta/Mattoon Follow-Up - Kaeser

<snip>

 >>Since you feel so passionately about this subject, I would
 >>encourage you to boycott the Sci-Fi Channel's programming, as
 >>well as that of the Discovery Network (Learning Channel, History
 >>Channel, etc). They have also been known to take information
 >>from researchers for their own profit without presenting the
 >>genre in a positive light. Several researchers that I know have
 >>vowed to never give interviews to a number of producers for that
 >>very reason. I guess that leaves us with PBS, but we know how
 >>they've treated the subject matter.

 >I have been refusing to participate in _any_ UFO programming
 >that is not being presented as "news" for over five years now. I
 >get asked/invited fairly regularly and the very first question
 >that I always ask is, "Is the subject being presented as news or
 >entertainment?" Because they invariably respond with,
 >"entertainment" is why you don't see me on TV any longer.  :)

Hi John, Steve,

The problem with the major media is it is entertainment TV and
has been for a number of years, just presented in or under the
guise of "serious news."

Cheers,

Robert







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   Apr > Apr 10

                          Filer's Files #15 -- 2003

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 14:21:44 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 08:00:24 -0400
Subject: Filer's Files #15 -- 2003


FILER'S FILES #15 -- 2003 Skywatch Investigations.
George A. Filer, Director Mutual UFO Network Eastern
April 9, 2003,
Majorstar@aol.com Webmaster: Chuck Warren
My website is at: www.Georgefiler.com
Sponsored by:  www.filer.unfranchise.com

WORLDWIDE UFO SIGHTINGS CONTINUE

The purpose of these files is to report the UFO eyewitness and
photo/video evidence that occurs on a daily basis around the
world and in space. Reports include a Pennsylvania flying
triangle, Maryland - chevrons flying low over the Beltway, South
Carolina - two flying triangles join huge circle craft, Florida -
two big oval UFO's and three boomerangs spotted, Texas - green
fireball fell from sky, Arizona - strobing blue light dropping
midair bombs, California - chevron and circle of lights, Oregon
- large sphere enters cloud, Canadian - newspaper says Terrace
UFO hotspot, Chile - Interview with eyewitness to an UFO
sighting, England - pinkish light with smaller white lights
being ejected from it, Italian - UFO sightings increase, Poland
- large UFO observed by forty people. UFOs reported over Iraq.
Crowds of Iraqis celebrate as coalition of US, Australian,
Polish, and British troops have now taken most of Bagdad and
many of Saddam's eighty palaces.

DR HERMAN OBERTH FATHER OF ROCKETRY SAYS UFOs EXIST

"We find ourselves faced by powers which are far stronger than
we had hitherto assumed, and whose base is at present unknown to
us. More I cannot say at present. We are now engaged in entering
into closer contact with those powers, and in six or nine months
time it may be possible to speak with some precision on the
matter."

PENNSYLVANIA FLYING TRIANGLE

CARLISLE -- On April 2, 2003, a flying triangle with a light in
each corner was seen at 9:45 PM, about six miles outside of
Carlisle. The observer states, "I was star gazing and looked
toward the Big Dipper when I saw a small cluster of shooting
stars that I followed for about ten seconds, when suddenly to my
amazement a UFO appeared low overhead." It was triangular in
shape with three large round lights, one in each corner of the
craft. I watched it silently glide south across the sky for
thirty seconds. I believe I saw several UFOs enter our
atmosphere, but I only viewed one craft close up. Make no
mistake about this, the craft was too low to be anything other
than a UFO, and I could not take my eyes off the one I was
looking at. The lights were not bright and were dimmed so as
not to draw attention. However, they were clearly visible and
showed the triangular shape of the black craft. Thanks to Peter
Davenport NUFORC

MARYLAND - CHEVRONS FLYING LOW

WASHINGTON, D.C. BELTWAY -- Author Ray Stanford reports, "My
wife and I were preparing to leave our home near Greenbelt,
Maryland at 8:15 PM, when a strange wing-like object was
observed overhead on March 8, 2003. There was no aircraft body
visible even though there was ground light reflecting off the
overcast clouds that should have clearly revealed any fuselage.
The anomalous aerial object 'AAO' was seen to emerge into view
traveling on a twenty-degrees-east of a true north course
passing almost overhead. The 'Wing' spanned a full two degrees
(120 ARC minutes) as contrasted with the half-degree (about 30
arc minute) crescent moon, for an immediate and good comparison
of angular size. The 'AAO' was perceived by binocular disparity
(visual parallax due to eye separation) as being 600 to a
maximum of 1,200 feet overhead, and at the time its actual
maximum possible distance was constrained by a thin layer of
clouds overhead. Officially, that cloud layer was OVERCAST at
23,000 feet at 20:51. Most disturbing was the total silence of
the nearby object. A bright, continuously white 'sphere'- was
visible on the tip of each 'wing.' Each white 'sphere' had a
very sharp edge quite different from the lights on ordinary
aircraft, and of a much purer white color.

A much smaller (than the white 'spheres') pure red light looked
possibly more 'point-source' and was located in the 'middle'
vertex of the 'wing.' It was brightening and dimming, but at
times it seemed more of a flicker or a pulse. The 'wing' was
quite strange. Although it was visible by the cloud
backlighting, it was rather vague because subtle light around it
seemed to vibrate or flicker at maybe ten hertz! All along and
across the 'wing' there was no sign of any aircraft type body!
Since the sight was quite 'spooky', maybe one could call them
'disembodied wings'. :) We live a few blocks north of the
little College Park Airport which is presently closed down to
non-government air traffic due to security concerns. This 'AAO'
seemed so very low that my 'gut' reaction was that it had taken
off from there, despite the fact that the thing seemed to be on
a very flat course (neither climbing nor descending).
Subsequent inquiry to the airport revealed that there had been
no takeoff around the 20:15 time of the first observation, and
the airport had closed at 22:30, fifteen minutes before the
second identical observation to be described below.

Roughly fifty minutes after the first observation, an airliner
type aircraft came over, possibly having taken off from Andrews
AFB just east of D.C. It was on a slightly more westward bearing
and considerably higher up. We could see the aircraft's body,
wings, and tail structure very clearly and hear it very
distinctly. By contrast, the 'AAO' had NO BODY VISIBLE, but
only that weird wing-like structure that seemed to shimmer.
There was a bizarre silence, 'stillness', and 'smoothness' that
is hard to explain or even put into adequately descriptive
words. After the object had disappeared beyond our north-
northeastern horizon (taking roughly 30 seconds time to go from
near zenith across the northern horizon). I ran up to the third
floor where my Extreme Low-Frequency (ELF) magnetometer is
located and noted a low-level, continuous magnetic pulse in
roughly the 2-hertz range, accompanied by a few very strong
'spike' type pulses, one of which may have 'pegged' the needle.
These were not normal background magnetics. About 10:46 PM, I
was again upstairs with the magnetometer checking for any
anomalous activity, when similar magnetic phenomena began to
again be seen by the action of the needle display and I heard on
the analog, frequency modulated audio output.

Watching and listening to that, I SUDDENLY heard a roar
(seemingly directly overhead) that vaguely resembled a loud jet
but was distinctly different, somehow. Then after a maybe 4 to
5 second duration, that roar SUDDENLY subsided -- taking about
0.5 second to go from loud to nothing. Because of the odd
magnetic activity and the surprising sound, at cessation of the
sound I rushed downstairs and onto the front porch, from which I
was surprised to see an exactly identical 'AAO' (as compared to
the 20:15 observation) on _exactly_ the _same_ course! As with
the earlier 'AAO,' I watched the object from almost directly
overhead as it moved in spookily total silence to across the
exact spot on the north-northeastern horizon into which the
first object had headed and disappeared. During the first
observation, the sky above the thing was overcast, but in the
second sighting it was totally clear, with all stars and planets
visible. Still, I could see no 'body' on the object, but only
the 'wing.' This time, too, the 'wing' seemed to shimmer in a
light-distorting way that made it much less clear than had the
very clear wings, body, and tail section of the jet aircraft.
In both observations of the identical 'AAO,' when overhead the
angular distance from white globe of light to white globe of
light ('wingtip'-to-'wingtip') was about 120 minutes or arc (2
degrees), and I had a ready comparison because the crescent moon
(about 28 to 30 arc minutes) was still in the northwest during
that second and identical observation.

Clouds above an aircraft seem to amplify aircraft sounds to a
ground observer, but although it was overcast during the 20:15
observation, even then not a sound of any kind could be heard!
I found that really a bit spooky because both things were
clearly under power, moving steadily and unwaveringly along
precisely the same course in both observations. It was as if
both had traveled upon the very same invisible track in the sky!
Let me be clear in saying that I suspect this twice-seen object
of being some type of stealthy black-project aircraft (manned or
unmanned) that is somehow propelled silently, but wonder at the
wisdom of operating such a vehicle over this highly populated
area within the Washington, D.C. Beltway. Oddly, _everything_
seemed so still and quiet during the two passages of the objects
that I am reminded of reports of a similar phenomenon ("the OZ
factor") reported by certain observers of 'UFOs' at close range.
Angular velocity of both 'AAO?'s averaged at three degrees per
second, if the observation time in each case was 30 seconds. If
45 seconds, then it might have been two degrees per second.
((NUFORC Note: This report submitted by Mr. Ray Stanford, noted
author and UFO investigator with NICAP for many years, and
author of "Socorro 'Saucer' in a Pentagon Pantry." The book is
an in-depth study of the April 24, 1964, landing of an egg-
shaped craft in the desert of New Mexico, witnessed by Socorro
Police Officer Lonnie Zamora. It is the best description of the
events surrounding that case that we have ever encountered.
PD))

SOUTH CAROLINA -FLYING TRIANGLES JOIN HUGE CIRCLE

ISLE OF PALMS -- The observer had recently purchased new 20 X 60
binoculars and a tripod adapter and was getting use to the
magnification power for star gazing on April 4, 2003. She was
focusing on some of the brightest stars at 3:05 AM, when three
"stars" moved horizontally in formation across the viewing
field. After they moved out of view, he looked and realized
they were quite visible without his binoculars. She says,
"Using the binoculars I could actually see a dark silhouette of
a triangular craft and watched it move for three minutes until
the silhouette began to be difficult to discern, and it
stopped." She states, "I noticed the outline of a HUGE circle
and like the triangle, the darker black image was visible
against the background of the pretty dark night sky." Without
binoculars, the perimeter of the object was indicated by a
circular nonmoving formation of lights, with one very bright
light in the center. An average star-like intensity light was
down and left of the center light. Also visible without
binoculars, was a circle of lights inside the larger circle.
The front light of the triangle seemed to be a part of that
circle, while the two rear lights of the triangle made up two of
the ten lights of the perimeter of the circle. She reports, "It
was as if the flying triangle had moved into the pie shape,
filling in one of the wedges." As I stood there, trying to make
sense of it all, clouds moved in obscuring the sky. The
observer graduated magna cum laude from college, is successfully
self-employed and is a great mother. Thanks to Peter Davenport
Reporting Hotline: (206) 722-3000 NUFORC

FLORIDA - THREE BOOMERANGS AND TWO OVALS SPOTTED

PANAMA CITY -- Three boomerang shaped objects were seen hovering
over the Gulf of Mexico on the evening of March 13, 2003. The
witness was at the beach looking at the view at 11 PM, and saw a
flash of light out of the corner of his eye. He quickly looked
and was very shocked to see it had the shape of a boomerang or a
sideways 'V' above the water. It was fire orange with no
distinctness about it. He says, "I thought it was quite
strange, but I figured it was a flash from a boat, that stayed
there for a few seconds and slowly went away; then another one
appeared and went away all in slow motion, and then another
showed up." I had no idea what this was. All day jets had been
flying by and I thought maybe that was what it was, but these
were silent and bright orange (jets aren't orange). I have no
idea what I saw. I read there was a similar sighting in the
fall of 2001, near Panama City. It was a sight I will never
forget.

GAINESVILLE -- Two witnesses saw a UFO in the sky over the
University of Florida on Saturday evening March 22, 2003. My
friend and I went out for a walk southwest of Lake Alice on a
beautiful clear night perfect for watching the stars. Around 10
PM, one witness states, "I happened to look up and there was
suddenly an ellipse-shaped dim object flying straight from
northwest to southeast at very high speed." I immediately told
my friend Xi, so she saw the same thing fly over and disappear
in the southeast. We saw the object for a total time of about
five seconds. Only two or three seconds later, when we were
still looking at the sky and wondering what we had seen, another
ellipse-shaped dim object flew straight by from west to east at
about the same speed. It crossed the first UFO's path at an
angle of 25-30 degrees. We both saw the two objects clearly and
surely. They looked gray, bright, outstanding in the dark sky.
There were no flashes from these two objects, and they seemed
much higher and flew much faster than normal planes. We suspect
these objects were UFOs based on our analysis. Thanks to Peter
Davenport NUFORC

TEXAS -- GREEN FIREBALL FELL FROM SKY

LAKE JACKSON -- On April 3, 2003, at 10:30 PM, the witnesses
were traveling southbound on Highway 288, just past the Brazoria
County Airport exit, when a green circle appeared in the sky
with a short tail traveling east, like a shooting star. Its
speed was very fast, lasting about three seconds, and then the
green fireball dissipated or landed in the Richwood area.

BEDFORD -- Two witnesses sighted a burning object on April 5,
2003, that came down changing trajectory as came down flying
from the north to southwest with a trailing plume of smoke. It
was burning as it crashed at 10:30 AM near Bedford. NUFORC

ARIZONA - SPHERE MAKES 90 DEGREE TURNS

PHOENIX -- On April 6, 2003, a round object was observe at a
high altitude at 4:50 PM, that moved at various speeds, stopping
at times, and then changed direction almost at a 90 degree
angle. It then gained altitude and reflected the sun's light.
There were no exterior lights and the object moved quickly,
slowed and stopped. It made short quick movements then
proceeded at a 90 degrees from the original movement at a slow
speed. A commercial aircraft heading north passed and the object
appeared well above it. About fifteen minutes later I observed
a similar object approach from the south that also stopped, then
made a sharp 90 degree turn and headed east as did the first
object. It slowly passed out of visual range. Thanks to Peter
Davenport NUFORC

CALIFORNIA -- CHEVRON AND CIRCLE

CONCORD -- Three friends were on their way to a party on April
4, 2003, at about 10 PM, when the driver swerved off the road
and drove into a parking lot shouting, "Look up." They saw a
bright orange circular object, the color of fire flying over.
The object wasn't flying like any aircraft they had ever seen,
and was almost hovering. It would move a bit, kind of like a
real slow blowing leaf. They reversed out of the parking lot to
get a better look, but the object faded and disappeared. They
drove around hoping to see it, and spotted the object between
some buildings. One witness states, "We all jumped out of the
car and saw it again, there is no plane that can fly that far so
quick, then just stop and hover." Then the object slowly
started flying to the right and all of us were 'trippen out.'
My friend used his phone to call friends about the UFO, and I
called my parents but there was no answer. I called my girl
friend, who could hear my friends freaking out. We then noticed
something falling from the UFO. It was dropping big bright
orange flame looking things that looked like sparks from a
campfire, but real big. It would drop 4 to 6 of these sparks,
then stop for a second, and then continue on dropping things.
The sparks were almost the same size as the UFO, and I thought
it might be part of the war. The UFO kept flying and dropping
things from it, as it began to fade or disappear. After a few
seconds it reappeared, but was not as bright.

CONCORD -- The witness was driving northeast on Detroit Avenue
on April 4, 2003, when the he noticed an unusual illuminated
object in the sky at 3:05 AM. It was a dim reddish orange
"natural" color like that of a dim fire. It didn't appear to be
illuminated by artificial light. It would slow down and change
directions like nothing I know of, except a helicopter but
helicopters are loud, and there was no sound coming from this
thing. I pulled over and it was gone. So we drove around
looking for it. We got out of the car and observed the object
that was heading in our direction about a mile north of us. I
began calling family and friends but no one could see it. I
concluded the object was much closer than we thought and
couldn't have been much bigger than the average jet. The object
began dropping some sort of laminated debris over the city. The
debris looked as if it was on fire or illuminated as well but it
appeared to go out before it hit the ground. But it was
rhythmically dropping debris for the duration of at least a
minute, every two seconds. This excited me! What was it
dropping? It was actually pretty scary and exciting! It passed
where we were and finally faded out into the sky like a campfire
would go out. This object looked almost "organic." It was very
bizarre. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC

OREGON - LARGE SPHERE ENTERING CLOUD

ALOHA -- A couple was at pulling their car up to a store at 6:35
PM, on April 4, 2003, when the wife asked, "What is that?" The
husband did not see the object. The object was about 10,000
feet high and just above a large section of blue sky with lots
of clouds. The wife said, "I saw a large sphere, about the size
of an eraser held at arm's length, that was extremely bright,
and seemed metallic; it dove in an arc into a cloud at a speed
much faster than anything I have ever seen before." We got out
of the car and looked for several more minutes, but nothing else
happened.

CANADIAN NEWSPAPER SAYS TERRACE UFO HOTSPOT

Jennifer Lang of the Terrace Standard Newspaper reports: TERRACE
is living up to its reputation as a UFO hot spot. As many as 30
people may have recently witnessed two black, triangular-shaped
flying objects in the Lakelse Lake area, the northwest's
resident UFO researcher has been told. Brian Vike, field
researcher and president of HBCC-UFO, is now hoping to talk to
eyewitnesses to verity the report. He also wants to find out
more details like the exact time, date, and description of the
sighting -- thought to have taken place several weeks ago. That
would help him determine what witnesses saw. A variety of known
objects such as stars, planets, meteors, or aircraft can be
mistaken for UFOs. Vike learned about the sighting after
someone sent him an email telling him that more than 30 people
had witnessed two triangular objects in the sky. "I'm kind of
chomping at the bit -- all I need is a couple of names and
number to get on this," he said from his home base in Houston,
B.C. "From what I'm gathering, they're professional people --
not just kids."

Vike is intrigued by the possibility that the sighting involves
triangular-shaped objects, which are less commonly reported.
There's been a flurry of UFO reports along the Highway 16
corridor lately. "It's just been non stop," he said, adding
he's received eight or nine reports in the past week. "There is
something; I don't know if it's military that's a possibility."
Another recent report from the Terrace area involved a yellow
ball of light the size of a basketball spotted over a trailer in
Thornhill. It moved low in the air, traveling quickly before
pausing above the mountain. "Then it proceeded like a bang,"
Vike says. The recent activity suggests Terrace's top ten
showing on the 2002; Canada UFO survey may have been no fluke.
The survey counted 25 eyewitness reports from Terrace in 2002,
putting us in third place overall, ahead of Houston, B.C., which
is in fourth place and even ahead of major metropolitan areas
like Toronto and Vancouver. http://www.terracestandard.com/
April 2, 2003, To reach Vike's UFO hotline, call toll free 1-
866-262-1989 or send him an email at hbccufo@telus.net

INTERVIEW WITH EYEWITNESS TO CHILEAN UFO SIGHTING

SANTIAGO DE CHILE -- Fernando Martinez a student of graphic
design on March 21, 2003, happened to be at the corner of Pedro
de Valdivia and Providencia. At noon and a knot of people
looked skyward with curiosity at a series of unknown luminous
objects over the area. It was among the most massive UFO
sightings of recent times. Fernando states, "I suddenly
realized that many people were looking at the sky and pointing
with their fingers, so I looked and was able to see a light
without any defined shape with over 50 smaller lights all
around." They didn't move much. At least not noticeably. All
the people were saying: "Look, they're UFOs!" They could have
been airplanes or balloons, but it seemed strange to me at that
altitude. Later, seeing their movement, I realized they weren't
airplanes and there was no noise? People were calm and in
general the spectators were very interested in the phenomenon.
Were you aware that the sighting coincided with the allied
attack on Iraq? I found out later when I saw the news. In one
article I saw they were discussing that UFOs always appear
whenever there's a tragedy unfolding. I don't know that there's
any connection. The UFOs remained there for longer than an
hour. I can only say, "I saw UFOs over Santiago de Chile, and
know what they were like." It isn't the first time that I've
seen something strange. A few years ago, while vacationing in
Puc=F3n, we saw a light that got in front of us and vanished in a
matter of seconds. Thanks to Terra cl and Mundomisterioso.com.
April 3, Thanks to Scott Corrales, Institute of Hispanic
Ufology. Translation (C) 2003.

ENGLAND - PINKISH LIGHT WITH LIGHTS BEING EJECTED

LIVERPOOL -- Bill Bimson says, "I was in the house playing music
on March 27, 2003, at around 7 PM, getting ready to go out. I
happened to glimpse out my bedroom window towards Huyton to see
a large pink/red light that seemed to be stationary. I looked
at it for a couple of seconds thinking it was an aircraft, but
the light was constant and much larger than an aircraft light.
I grabbed my binoculars and saw an object, that seemed to be a
large light, with a reddish trail behind it as if it was
traveling at high speed. I couldn't make out a solid object but
it did not appear to move. Then out shot a small white light
from the top of the 'pink light' that rose up away and
disappeared. So it's not a light that was connected to the
light but an external object. Half a second later, two small
side by side white lights shot from underneath the pink light
and diagonally moved away before disappearing. About a second
later, the pink light 'disappeared' as if it blinked out. The
total time of this 'light' was about six seconds. I am used to
seeing aircraft coming in from afar, however, this was much
larger than your average aircraft and had no flashing lights and
of course the white lights appeared to fly off it. Thanks to
Jonathan Wild, boyracer76@blueyonder.co.uk and Bill Bimson
wbimson02@blueyonder.co.uk at MARA www.mara.org.uk

ITALIAN UFO NEWSFLASH - SIGHTINGS IN ITALY INCREASE

The Italian Center for UFO Studies reports the sighting of 42
UFO phenomena during the month of February. This is a 40%
increase in comparison with last year. Two small flaps took
place on February 24th in the Province of Varies and on the 28th
in Emilia.

The total for January and February is greater than the same
period for last year, and the preceding two years. The
collection and cataloguing of sightings continues for 2001, that
has an already-staggering total of 848 cases. There are 745
cases for 2002. The annual mean number of yearly Italian
reports regularly and steadily exceeds the 700-mark.

MOLISE A FALLEN OBJECT -- Numerous UFO reports were received by
the Isernia Police Department's Provincial Command during the
late evening of March 15, 2003. The object fell into a wooded
area near the town of Venafro, setting off a fire which was
rapidly brought under control by fire crews. No object was
found in the area, and snowfalls over the ensuing days impeded
further investigations. The authorities were worried about a
public furor, and suggested the incident was caused by a
lightning strike. As a rebuttal, motorists have come forth with
testimony claiming to have distinctly observed a long fiery
trail of an orange colored object passing overhead from the
south and falling into the woods of Monte Corno. Immediately
following the impact, the witnesses saw flames break out.
Thanks to ANSA, Il Giornale del Molise, La Stampa dailies, 3/17.
Edited weekly by Edoardo Russo for the Italian Center for UFO
Studies http://www.proz.com/translator/723

POLAND- LARGE UFO OBSERVED BY FORTY PEOPLE

KOLBIEL -- Tomasz Wierszalowicz reports, "We had a UFO
observation in Central Poland on March 20, 2003, about 2 AM,
when about forty people from a night shift were on break at
work. They were outside and watched a big object drop a sphere
shaped object. The object was slowly descending and as it got
closer to the ground the observers saw a red circle shaped light
with a halo-glow on the surface. The object had numerous lights
on its surface and the people definitely said that the object
could not be from Earth. Thanks to Tomasz Wierszalowicz
uforaport@wp.pl httwww.uforaport.prv.pl

IRAQ - UFOs FLY AS ALLIED BOMBS

LITTLE ZAB VALLEY -- According to UFO Roundup, on Thursday,
March 27, 2003, an oblong luminous UFO hovered over the holy
city of Najaf located about 60 miles south of Baghdad. A photo
showing the unknown object, with a G.I. of the 3rd Brigade,
101st Airborne Division pointing at it with his forefinger,
appeared in the newspaper Euronews, according to French
Ufologist Thierry Garnier. UFO Roundup correspondent Mohammed
Hajj al-Amdar stated, "The UFO's appearance caused great
excitement among the Shiites who saw it. They said it had come
from Allah's Gardens of Bliss to protect the Tomb of Ali."
Najaf is a holy city to Shiite Muslims because of the golden-
domed mosque that stands over the grave of Ali, the son-in-law
of the prophet Mohammed. The mosque miraculously escaped damage
last week from the 101st Airborne's howitzer barrage. Despite a
heavy Allied bombing raid on Little Zab River Valley in Northern
Iraq, UFOs appeared in the night skies on Wednesday, April 2,
2003. And again on Thursday, "tiny UFOs shaped like a tube with
a rotating spiral around them" appeared over Zawra Park in
Baghdad at 11:57 PM. Eagle-eyed correspondent Grady Croy
spotted the UFOs during a live broadcast from Baghdad "while
watching FOX News with Shepard Smith. Thanks to UFO Roundup,
Editor Joseph Trainor, Vol. 8, # 15 April 9, 2003.

CNN Reports - Crowds of Iraqis celebrate the apparent end of
Saddam Hussein's regime in Shiite neighborhood of Baghdad. The
Coalition cautions the fighting is "not over."

OPC-3 WILL HELP WITH SEVERE ALLERGY FORECAST

The rapidly increasing numbers of people suffering from
allergies is now up to 55 million people according to the
Courier Post Newspaper. Allergy sufferers will be hard hit
because of the moisture accumulated by heavy snows and rains
that has nurtured mold and will fuel pollen production as the
temperatures rise. I also get letters from people who claim to
be suffering from what they call Chemtrail illness generated by
jet engine and auto emissions. If you suffer from allergies or
pollution keep your windows closed in your home and cars. Limit
outdoor activity on windy days with high pollen counts and heavy
contrails. Shower and wash your hair before you go to sleep.
Limit smoking and if you have a pet wipe down its fur to remove
the pollen when it comes in. Don't mow lawns that stir up molds
and pollen.

My family was having serious allergy, and pollution associated
illnesses. I asked a Medical Doctor friend what he would
recommend, and he told me he treats 62 different ailments such
as allergies, and various breathing problemswith amazing success
using Isotonix OPC-3. He considers Isotonix OPC-3 the most
powerful antioxidant, free radical scavenger known to man, and
one of the greatest discoveries in history.

When my family started taking OPC-3 within days the sneezing,
running nose and congestion was gone. I was so impressed by
the results for about a dollar a day, that I'm offering it to
anyone who has similar problems. Just use Visa or MasterCard
at: Isotonix OPC-3

BREAK THROUGH IN ANTI-AGING -- To learn more about the new
science of anti-aging, and how to stop the clock for a younger,
sexier, happier you go to: Anti-aging

WHAT YOU SHOULD KNOW WHEN HIRING REAL ESTATE AGENT!
Learn how you can obtain the best real estate agent to help your
buy or sell a home. To get a free copy of this report e-mail me
at Majorstar@aol.com

MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative
reports subscribe to the MUFON JOURNAL. A MUFON membership
includes the Journal and costs only $35.00 per year. To join
MUFON or to report a UFO go to http://www.mufon.com/. To ask
questions contact MUFONHQ@aol.com or HQ@mufon.com. Mention that
I recommended you for membership.

Filer's Files is copyrighted 2003 by George A. Filer, all rights
reserved. Readers may post the COMPLETE files on their Web Sites
if they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list
the date of issue. These reports and comments are not
necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON viewpoint. Send your letters to
Majorstar@aol.com. Sending mail automatically grants permission
for us to publish and use your name. Please state if you wish to
keep your name, address, or story confidential. CAUTION, MOST OF
THESE ARE INITIAL REPORTS AND REQUIRE FURTHER INVESTIGATION.

Regards,

George Filer  www.filer.unfranchise.com










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   Apr > Apr 10

             Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 15:28:46 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 08:12:31 -0400
Subject: Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line - Stanford


I might as well go ahead and disclose that as to Allen Hynek's
statement to me, saying, "If I were you, I would just forget the
silica dioxide story and accept the original report of a zinc-
iron allow. The X-ray diffraction pattern of silica dioxide
can't be mistaken by an expert for that of a zinc-iron alloy.
That explanation was nothing short of silly!", three of the
witnesses were Christopher d' Etremont, John M. Lucas, and my
wife.

Ray Stanford

"You know my method.  It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery






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               Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 22:27:05 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 08:35:34 -0400
Subject: Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line - Hall


 >From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 13:35:46 -0400
 >Subject: Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line

 >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 23:01:35 +0000
 >>Subject: Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line

 >>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
 >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 15:25:05 -0400
 >>>Subject: Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line

 >>>Please let me clarify what I said yesterday concerning Richard
 >>>Hall, in case anyone misinterpreted my words.

 >>>Of course, at times I wondered (after learning of the CIA
 >>>security clearance probe of Hall via an FOIA document that
 >>>someone published), but those who read my communication of
 >>>yesterday carefully will realize that I did not say that Dick is
 >>>a CIA agent, and I cautioned on the subject, even, of any
 >>>conceivable compliance by Dick in a CIA cover-up, "I'm not sure
 >>>of such a thing..."

 >>"Someone published?" All too typical of Stanford's mendacity.
 >>See Richard Hall, Uninvited Guests (Aurora Press, 1988), pp.
 >>351-358, wherein I report this entire episode, which is no
 >>secret to anyone knowledgable about UFO history. I deeply resent
 >>Stanford's attempted smear job and character assassination on
 >>this issue.

 >List,

 >I do not consider what I said to be "character assination', and
 >certainly did not intend it as such. In my postings on this and
 >elsewhere, I have always had high praise for Hall's
 >contributions to UFO studies, excluding his conceivably biased
 >judgement on this particular matter.

 >Someone might, however, classify Dick's first post accusing me
 >of "paranoid imaginings" as coming close to character
 >assination.

 >>>I certainly don't think of Dick as a CIA agent, but had wondered
 >>>when I heard about the clearance having been sought, whether he
 >>>might at least temporarily have been compliant with agency
 >>>wishes. In other words, I was sharing some of the quandary I
 >>>went through upon learning that a CIA clearance had been sought
 >>>for him.

 >>Oh, suddenly when faced with possible rebuttal by me, now I am
 >>not such a sycophant, ignoramus, and dupe as Stanford portrayed
 >>me in his book. By the way, Ray, can you tell me the account
 >>number of my secret CIA bank account in Switzerland? I need to
 >>draw down some funds so I can avoid the poorhouse. And also, did
 >>Allen Hynek send you a letter about Socorro, or are we once
 >>again asked to believe that he told you something on the phone
 >>that no one else ever heard or knows about?

 >Dick says I portrayed him as a "...sycophant, ignoramus, and
 >dupe..."! Anyone who reads that into what I have said concerning
 >him is not a very objective reader.

Okay folks, keep your eye on the ball, because Stanford is
pulling out all the stops to obscure the basic issues and deny
what he has said and done in the past. I defy any objective
person to read his Soccoro book and come up with any other
interpretation of what he has said about me than the one he
denies immediately above.

 >As to Hall's intimation that fear of rebuttal has made me
 >rescind my (alleged) characterization of him as a "...sycophant,
 >ignoramus, and dupe...", that's fiction because I never
 >characterized him that way and wouldn't. Even the
 >characterization Hall alleges of my comments on him is his
 >fiction, and I am hardly back-tracking. I still challenge him
 >to a public debate on the Socorro metal controversy at a MUFON
 >symposium.

 >One might wonder why Hall does not accept such an opportunity if
 >he really believes he is right.

 >>>If I were writing yesterday's post today, I might well leave
 >>>out all reference to a possible CIA connection; but my anger was
 >>>somewhat awakened by Dick's post. We are both human, though,
 >>>and, after sleeping on it, I am trying to forgive Dick's
 >>>off-the-cuff remarks, and I hope Dick will forgive any
 >>>indiscretion that he might feel I showed in my response on
 >>>UFO UpDates.

 >>My remarks are never "off-the-cuff."

 >Maybe, then, I should have used the adjective I first put in
 >there, but changed it to try to be more polite. What I had in
 >there initially was "Inflamed remarks".

Once you get past Stanford's game-playing and persiflage, the
real issues are these: (1) What really happened in regard to his
alleged metal samples that we arranged to have analyzed at NASA-
Goddard, and (2) who is the more credible in this dispute (and
in general)?

 >>Previously I had thought that Stanford was honestly mistaken.
 >>Now I am not so sure anymore.

 >I stand by what I said in the book, which tells both sides of
 >the story. If I am mistaken, so was Hynek, and the analytical
 >chemists who commented on the matter.

No, it tells only one extremely subjective and self-serving side
of the story. And here we come to the crux of his latest totally
unsupported (and probably unsupportable) claim that Hynek agreed
with him and said I was wrong, and again, that I was sort of
stupid and naive. No letter, Ray? Oh, you have witnesses who
heard him say so. Well, then, produce them right now and stop
your BS and macho posturing.

<snip>

 >Hall said to me in concluding yesterday's comments with:

 >>There is no way that I will let you dictate the terms of debate
 >>between us. I disputed the accuracy of your claims about
 >>Socorro, and now you are accusing me of all sorts of dishonesty.
 >>You have slapped me in the face with your attacks against my
 >>honesty, integrity, and character. I take that very personally.

<snip>

 >So, List members, if you feel inclined and it is acceptable to
 >Errol Bruce-Knapp, please proffer your opinions as to whether a
 >MUFON symposium would be a fair venue for such an event. I
 >think it would be a great opportunity for a large audience and
 >the media to hear both sides of the issue, first-hand, from both
 >the primary witnesses to those 1964 happenings.

This is not game-playing?

 >If the facts are on Hall's side of the debate, one might expect
 >him to accept this chance to 'strutt his stuff' and make me out
 >as the victum of delusion. From the tone of his posts on this, I
 >should think he would relish the opportunity.

I'm not into show biz like you are, Ray.

<snip>

 >As to Hall's "Big Lie" characterization of my statements, he may
 >deal in character assination if he chooses, but I prefer to deal
 >with the issues of a case.

He accuses me of lying, deception, cover-up, etc., etc., and yet
I am the one engaging in character assassination? How special!

 >Now, let me close with answering Hall's question of yesterday:

 >>And also, did Allen Hynek send you a letter about Socorro, or
 >>are we once again asked to believe that he told you something
 >>on the phone that no one else ever heard or knows about?

 >As a matter of fact Allen Hynek sent me several letters
 >discussing Socorro. But he also (while visiting our project in
 >Austin, Texas) made a statement in front of witnesses concerning
 >the fact that he rejects the cover-up explanation, declaring,
 >"If I were you, I would just forget the silica dioxide story and
 >accept the original report of a zinc-iron allow. The X-ray
 >diffraction pattern of silica dioxide can't be mistaken by an
 >expert for that of a zinc-iron alloy."

 >Then, Allen chuckled, adding, "That explanation was nothing
 >short of silly!"

 >Aside from me, there were at least six other witnesses to that
 >statement by Hynek.

All right, now we are down to the nitty gritty. I just contacted
three people who were closely associated with Allen Hynek at the
Center for UFO Studies (Mark Rodeghier, Jerry Clark, and his
former research assistant Jennie Zeidman). None of them recall
him saying any such thing about the NASA-Goddard analysis of
alleged metal samples. What have you got to say about that, Ray?
Don't you think that if he was aware of any such conclusion as
you claim that he would have made it known to his closest
associates? Also, when the Center for UFO Studies was formed
following the 1973 UFO sighting wave, Allen Hynek personally
phoned me and invited me to be involved with CUFOS in some
capacity, and I have been a Contributing Editor ever since. He
never raised any issue with me or asked me any questions about
the NASA-Goddard analysis either (the circumstances of which you
totally distort in your book).

You claim to have witnesses who heard him say otherwise. Well,
then, the burden of proof is on you. Either produce them or
(once again, as you did years ago when I challenged you on
several points in your book, admit you are wrong) and back off.

 >If Dick accepts the debate, I may easily be able to coax a
 >couple of those witnesses to Hynek's statement to attend, for
 >some first-hand testimony. Even if they cannot come, I will
 >release the names of those who grant permission to do so, and
 >I'm confident they will.

 >But I'm holding my real trump card on the Socorro metal case
 >until the debate, in case Dick accepts. I almost spilled it
 >last night on Jeff Rense's radio show, but, considering
 >discretion to be the better part of valor, decided to hold it
 >for a more important occasion such as a "hot time in the old
 >town" (Or, should I say "shoot-out in the MUFON Corral"?) with
 >Dick. :)

Okay, macho man, play your trump card. And I hope the probably
bored observers of this donnybrook will at least have the
courtesy to insist that you produce something meaningful, or get
off the pot. Courtesy to me who has no apologies to make  for my
contributions to this field and only wishes that noisemakers
like you would shut up and go away.


  - Dick









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   Apr > Apr 10

              Re: Press Release - Frivolous Litigation Fails -

From: Steve in Bama <sdo1@mynra.com>
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 23:42:51 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 09:10:36 -0400
Subject: Re: Press Release - Frivolous Litigation Fails -


 >From: Royce J. Myers III - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 14:07:33 -0700
 >Subject: Press Release - Frivolous Litigation Fails

 >UFOWATCHDOG.COM PREVAILS IN COURT
 >Frivolous Litigation Fails To Silence Website

 ><snip>

 >>On April 1, 2003, Myers was notified of Judge Nishimoto's final
 >>ruling, which was in favor of UFOWATCHDOG.COM. In a two-page

I hope you are aware that Morton was on George Noory's Coast to
Coast a couple weeks ago declaring that the suit was one that he
was going to win with no problem...

Congratulations! Keep up the great work, Royce!

--

"They dug them up with their hands, and raced the sun."

http://www.defendamerica.mil/nmam.html -

Steve Owens, Constable
   -=-  Mobile, Alabama    -







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                          Secrecy News -- 04/10/03

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 11:15:35 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 14:14:39 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 04/10/03


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2003, Issue No. 31
April 10, 2003


**      VP CHENEY ON OPENNESS AND SECRECY
**      WHAT'S NEW IN THE NEW EXECUTIVE ORDER
**      CURTAILING SECRET COURT SETTLEMENTS
**      CHINA VIEWS HUMAN RIGHTS IN US


VP CHENEY ON OPENNESS AND SECRECY

Vice President Dick Cheney yesterday said it was "unfair" to
characterize the Bush Administration as opposed to openness.  To
the contrary, he said, the Administration is "commit[ted] to the
free flow of information."

The Vice President spoke at a meeting of the American Society of
Newspaper Editors and was responding to a question from
Cleveland Plain Dealer editor Douglas C. Clifton, who noted that
"There's a growing perception among librarians, academicians,
researchers, historians, reporters, editors, publishers,
broadcasters that the Bush administration is a foe of openness
in government."

Cheney defended the conduct of his Energy Task Force and his
refusal to disclose the identities of those he consulted with.
"I think it restored some of the legitimate authority of the
Executive Branch, the President and the Vice President, to be
able to conduct their business."

"In other areas, if we talk about openness, I can't think of
anything that better demonstrates our commitment to the free
flow of information about very important events than this whole
exercise we're in the middle of right now, with respect to
embedding the press corps with U.S. military forces," the Vice
President said.

See an excerpt from the Vice President's remarks here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2003/04/vp040903.html

Yet clashes over Bush Administration secrecy continue to erupt
on a nearly daily basis.

Two news stories today detail separate disputes between the
executive branch and Republican committee chairmen whose
congressional committees have been denied access to information.

House Commerce Committee Chairman W.J. "Billy" Tauzin (R-LA)
warned the Securities and Exchange Commission that he will
subpoena certain SEC documents that have been withheld for nine
months if they are not promptly delivered.  See "House Panel
Tells SEC It Will Subpoena Papers" by Kathleen Day, Washington
Post, April 10:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A1202-
2003Apr9.html

Danielle Brian of the Project on Government Oversight describes
the efforts of House National Security Subcommittee Chairman
Christopher Shays (R-Conn.) to overcome Energy Department
resistance to release of documents that his subcommittee
requires concerning security at nuclear weapons facilities.  See
"Stonewalling Security" by Danielle Brian, TomPaine.com, here:

http://www.tompaine.com/feature.cfm/ID/7571


WHAT'S NEW IN THE NEW EXECUTIVE ORDER

An edited version of the new Bush Executive Order 13292 on
classified national security information that highlights the
additions to, and deletions from, the prior executive order
12958 is available here, courtesy of the Information Security
Oversight Office:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/bush/eo13292inout.html


CURTAILING SECRET COURT SETTLEMENTS

Senator Herb Kohl (D-WI) introduced the Sunshine in Litigation
Act to curtail judicial secrecy agreements that permit product
manufacturers to settle lawsuits in ways that conceal dangerous
defects in the products.

"All too often, courts sign off on secret settlements that
shield important public health and safety information from the
public view," Sen. Kohl said.

In support of his bill, Kohl invoked a January 2001 statement by
no less than Attorney General John Ashcroft:

"I think unnecessarily hiding or otherwise concealing from the
public those [public health and safety hazards] would be against
the interests of the people... I think there's great danger in
not providing public information," Mr. Ashcroft said at his
confirmation hearing.

See Sen. Kohl's April 9 introductory statement here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/2003/s040903.html


CHINA VIEWS HUMAN RIGHTS IN US

"The United States has been... censuring other countries for
their human rights situations, but it has turned a blind eye to
serious violations of human rights on its own soil."  To remedy
that defect, the Chinese government has issued its own report on
human rights in the United States.

Problem areas identified include high crime rates, infringements
on constitutional rights, the dominant role of money in American
politics, poverty, hunger, homelessness, and racial
discrimination.

The new Chinese government report was explicitly intended as a
reply to the U.S. State Department's annual report on human
rights in China, released on March 31, which found "numerous and
serious abuses" of human rights in the PRC, including
"extrajudicial killings, torture and mistreatment of prisoners,
forced confessions, arbitrary arrest and detention, lengthy
incommunicado detention, and denial of due process."

China's April 3 report on "The US Human Rights Record in 2002"
(with a link to the State Department human rights report) may be
found here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2003/04/xin040303.html

Coincidentally, the State Department this week invited non-
governmental organizations and others to describe their ideas
for "projects that will foster democracy, human rights, freedom
of information, judicial independence, criminal and civil rule
of law, and civil society in the People's Republic of China."

See this remarkable April 7 Federal Register notice from the
State Department's Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights and Labor:

http://cryptome.org/dos040703.txt

China has not indicated whether it would now sponsor a parallel
program to support freedom of information and other pro-
democracy initiatives in the United States.


_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood@fas.org
voice:  (202) 454-4691






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                         Could Peer Review Be Wrong?

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 16:07:15 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 16:07:15 -0400
Subject: Could Peer Review Be Wrong?



Source: Information Today

Vol. 20 No. 4 _ April 2003

http://www.infotoday.com/IT/apr03/peek.shtml

Could Peer Review Be Wrong?
By Robin Peek

Seriously questioning the validity of the peer-review process is
like debating the merits of a holy grail. We've been conducting
peer review for so long (more than 200 years, by some estimates)
that it, well, just has to be good. Or as Martha Stewart might
say: "Peer review. It's a good thing."

But two scholarly societies are now asking if peer review is in
fact such a good thing.As the discussion about finding
alternative ways of distributing research has intensified over
the past few years, it's not surprising that peer review itself
would eventually come under scrutiny. And two U.K. groups, the
Cochrane Collaboration and the Royal Society, are suggesting
that there's a need to examine the value of peer review and to
determine whether its methodology should be systematically
revised.

The motivation for this inquiry is concern that the public is
losing faith in peer review's ability to create a gold standard
for evaluating research quality. Last year in the U.S., there
were several instances of significant peer-review failures. The
most startling was revealed last October when the work of Bell
Laboratories' Jan Hendrick Schon came under scrutiny. Schon
published 25 papers over the past 3 years. Of those, 16 have
been declared to be false. This finding caused the prestigious
journal Science to withdraw eight of his papers.

Cochrane Review

In January, Cochrane published "Editorial Peer-Review for
Improving the Quality of Reports of Biomedical Studies."
According to the organization, this study was conducted because
"the knowledgebase of peer review has traditionally lagged far
behind its acceptability and use as a quality-assessment tool."
Cochrane claims that assumptions about the use of peer review
for objective decision making have "rarely been tested." In
addition, it says that the need to "prioritize information
sources is crucial since there are over 20,000 biomedical
journals published globally."

Cochrane, founded in 1992 in Oxford, U.K., is an international
organization that "aims to help people make well-informed
decisions about healthcare by preparing, maintaining, and
ensuring the accessibility of systematic reviews of the effects
of healthcare interventions."

The report began with an initial look at 135 studies on the
effects of peer review in biomedicine. However, the Cochrane
reviewers found that only 21 offered credible data. They
concluded that "given the amount of resources invested in peer
review and the common assumption that it improves such outcomes,
the lack of research documenting improvements is striking." In
addition, many of the studies show that the "well-researched
practice of concealing the identities of peer-reviewers or
authors, while laborious and expensive, appears to have little
effect on the outcome of the quality-assessment process."

So it's not surprising that the Cochranereviewers argue, "A
well-funded and coordinated effort involving several sectors of
the scientific community is required to improve our
understanding of the effects of peer review." They claim that
such a study "would best be coordinated by a scientific council
... with the specific aim of scientifically assessing the
quality of peer viewing." Until a study is undertaken, the
reviewers caution that "we are not confident in the present
system" of peer review.

Because the peer-review process is so deeply entrenched in the
research system, this fascinating study would be a formidable
undertaking. To many, defending the process is like upholding
the American virtues of motherhood, baseball, and apple pie. But
since Schon was able to slip pastScience's venerated quality-
control mechanisms more than a half-dozen times, it's
appropriate to ask if traditional peer-review practices can
still be applied in an environment that offers so many
publishing outlets and places so many demands on the reviewers'
time.

Royal Society Working Group

Shortly after the release of the Cochrane review, the Royal
Society, the U.K.'s leading research institution, announced it
was going to examine best practices in peer review. It has set
up a 10-member working group to oversee this process. Heading up
the inquiry is Patrick Bateson, provost of King's College as
well as biological secretary and vice president of the Royal
Society. He believes that "peer review is an imperfect process."

In a February interview in The Guardian, Bateson argued:
"Scientists are under enormous pressure these days, and many are
reluctant to give the time to [peer review]. Sometimes what
happens is that the paper gets passed to a graduate student who
then delivers a damning critique." He stated further: "We are
all aware that some referees'reports are not worth the paper
they are written on. It's also hard for a journal editor when
reports come back that are contradictory, and it's often down to
a question of a value judgment whether something is published or
not."

The Royal Society Working Group has established an aggressive
time frame for generating two reports by September. One of the
committee's charges is to determine best practices for peer
review and consider alternatives such as naming the referees.
This system might make referees more responsive and responsible
(and perhaps more polite).

A second report aims to help the public interpret scientific
results. This could be a particularly compelling document if the
working group concludes that the existing peer-review system is
in fact fundamentally flawed. It would place the Royal Society
in the awkward position of trying to calm public fears about the
trustworthiness of scientific research while calling for
essential changes in the very framework that underpins it.

If the Royal Society does call for new best practices for peer
review, it will be interesting to see how or if the research
community embraces them.






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   Apr > Apr 10

             Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 15:51:57 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 16:11:48 -0400
Subject: Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line - Stanford


 >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 22:27:05 +0000
 >Subject: Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line

 >>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 13:35:46 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: SDI's Ray Stanford Interview On-Line

Hello list,

If you have been keeping up with this exchange begun by Richard
Hall and responded to by me, then back and forth, you may have
wondered why Richard became so super charged in the first place,
upon a few complimentary remarks about my book by a couple of
intelligent and, IMO, discerning list members who have read the
book, who did not even mention the matter of the metal analysis.

If the first place, those of you who have read the book will
know that I never accused Hall of being responsible for taking
all the metal off the rock (rather than the portion agreed
upon), nor did I accuse him of being involved in issuing a claim
that the initial analysis was all a mistake. The only thing I
advocated was that he should not have accepted the cover-up
statement by one of Frankel's subordinates, or that at least he
should have consulted analytical chemists as did I. To date, I
have received no statement from Hall that he ever even bothered
to inquire, as did I, into the plausibility of what, to this
day, I am confident was a cover-up. So, who is the real
investigator, and who was willing to accept an implausible
statement from the government without investigation? Clearly,
Hall was the credulous one in this case.

Yesterday, Hall mentioned pages 351 through 358 in his important
and excellent book, UNINVITED GUESTS. If you don't have it, Bob
Girard of Arcturus Books can probably provide it:
(RGirard321@aol.com or 772-398-0796 during office hours, eastern
time, U.S.A.) One might get the idea Hall thought that I had not
even read that, but I had done so soon after the book came out
because I have appreciated all of Hall's writings except his
comments against my book. Dick would seem to be suggesting that
in publishing the CIA letter to him and the CIA memo on NICAP
and himself, that he shows he has nothing to hide concerning the
CIA or his and/or NICAP's possible compliance with their
requests, but please read those documents very discerningly.
Without further comment, I leave it to the reader to analyze. In
saying that, I am not implying that Dick is a CIA agent or
operative. But was he was just helpful to them at times? Read
the documents and decide for yourself.

I get the impression from Hall's letter of yesterday that he
expects me let him get me excited and, resultantly, throw a
trump card out on this 'table'. But, I'm saving my cards for a
face-to-face debate at a MUFON symposium. But I say, "Lots of
luck, Dick, in your wishful thinking. I shall withhold it until
it can be presented in the context mentioned." However, in the
event that Dick refuses such a debate, and in the event that his
death should precede mine, I shall consider releasing it upon
his death, thereby preventing him further frustration or
embarrassment, such as he seems to be saying this matter has
already caused him.

If anyone wishes to examine whether I have treated Hall's
opinion fairly and objectively, don't take Hall's word for it.
Please read the book or even go to
http://www.soundwaves2000.com/rense/ and on the 4-8-03 listing
for Peter Davenport (on the Jeff Rense radio show), click on
Server 1 to begin hearing my interview of Tuesday night. I name
Hall and tell all I know of his side of the story. Then if you
feel so inclined, report back here as to whether I was fair or
unfair to him. Peter Davenport of the National UFO Reporting
Center www.UFOCENTER.com has just recently read my book and you
will also hear his glowing review of it on the Jeff Rense radio
show archive.

Now, to some points of Hall's letter of yesterday that I have
not already covered:

 >Once you get past Stanford's game-playing and persiflage, the
 >real issues are these: (1) What really happened in regard to his
 >alleged metal samples that we arranged to have analyzed at NASA-
 >Goddard, and (2) who is the more credible in this dispute (and
 >in general)?

 >>>Previously I had thought that Stanford was honestly mistaken.
 >>>Now I am not so sure anymore.

 >>I stand by what I said in the book, which tells both sides of
 >>the story. If I am mistaken, so was Hynek, and the analytical
 >>chemists who commented on the matter.

 >No, it tells only one extremely subjective and self-serving side
 >of the story. And here we come to the crux of his latest totally
 >unsupported (and probably unsupportable) claim that Hynek agreed
 >with him and said I was wrong, and again, that I was sort of
 >stupid and naive. No letter, Ray? Oh, you have witnesses who
 >heard him say so. Well, then, produce them right now and stop
 >your BS and macho posturing.

Unsupported?!!

Hall has already been preempted on this challenge. See my most
recent post identifying three of the witnesses.

 >>So, List members, if you feel inclined and it is acceptable to
 >>Errol Bruce-Knapp, please proffer your opinions as to whether a
 >>MUFON symposium would be a fair venue for such an event. I
 >>think it would be a great opportunity for a large audience and
 >>the media to hear both sides of the issue, first-hand, from both
 >>the primary witnesses to those 1964 happenings.

 >This is not game-playing?

What's the matter, Dick, don't you believe in democracy? :)

 >>If the facts are on Hall's side of the debate, one might expect
 >>him to accept this chance to 'strutt his stuff' and make me out
 >>as the victum of delusion. From the tone of his posts on this, I
 >>should think he would relish the opportunity.

 >I'm not into show biz like you are, Ray.

I think that's a bit non sequitur, Dick.

If the meaning behind that statement is that you fear I am a
better public speaker and would win over a MUFON symposium
audience, I must declare, having heard you speak a few times,
that you do a nice and distinguished job at speaking. It's true
that I tend to speak rapidly, while your speech is more slow,
but it is intelligent and thoughtful. Maybe you would come
across better than would I, in a debate.

However, if Hall is trying to avoid a public debate in favor of
some written piece soley authored by him or one of his friends,
so that he or they can rave on about issues unrelated to this
one, such as the fact that in my teens I co-authored a very
subjective book entitled Look Up!, in which I unfortunately (in
teenage zeal) interpreted some well-documented (including police
affidavits) and very well-witnessed close encounters with UFOs
as ESP-induced "contacts", then I'm pre-empting them on that:

As evidence that I have never tried to hide that fact, just a
few years back I released to Bob Girard a bunch of copies of
that book. Each copy contained a post-publication, stamped-in
statement to the effect that both authors now repudiate the
subjective interpretations we made concerning UFO close
encounters that were, themselves, quite real events. If anyone
on this list would like to draw me out on this, please do so, as
I welcome the opportunity. It was my eventual disgust with that
'contactee' mentailty that was a primary force in my moving into
the most absolutely objective side of UFO research, the
instrumented study of UFO images and of their other optical,
magnetic, and gravitational properties. For years, I have
publicly provided evidence exposing the contact hoaxes of George
Adamski and Daniel W. Fry, and will do so again if it becomes
broadly requested and seems permissible in this forum. I
suspect, however, that most listers are knowledgeable enough
that they already know the facts of those cases and neither need
nor want to hear more.

Or, maybe, to avoid the real issue, Dick, would like to go
figuratively screaming it from the publication roof top that I
worked as a psychic for many years with the Association for the
Understanding of man, Incorporated, a non-profit organization.
Well I doubt that would be news to many on this list. Does he
think I am ashamed of that and would like to hide it? I am not,
and I quit doing psychic work in the 1980s, in part because I
got sick of people thumping readings that came from me as though
they were Christian fundamentalists thumping the Bible. As
announced many times before in diverse venues, and quite
recently on Errol Bruce Knapp's interview with me, I repudiate
giving psychic readings, following psychic readings (even when
they might seem to have a veritical ESP-derived content), and
the kind of mentality that I believe led me and leads others to
undertake them, as well as the mentality that leads people to
seek and follow them. (To any 'metafizzlers' who might be
lurking on this list: Please don't shout at me for speaking my
heart of that. I've been trought that stuff, and I know its
pitfalls.)

I had begun doing psychic readings, including medical readings,
in the very early '60s, at about age 23, I guess. Even during
the peroiod that I gave readings from an altered state of
consciousness, I constantly insisted that on the occassions when
allegedly independent 'personalities' discoursed, that I did not
(and still do not) believe they were necessarily from other than
my own psyche masquerading as independent beings. My interviews
during the period clearly state that, always. But, don't take
that statement wrongly. Not all my 'readings' contained only
figurative B.S.. In my opinion and that of many others, there
were some clearcut demonstrations of precognition, mind-reading
from over a thousand miles away, and medical clairvoyance. But
that does not, IMO, justify giving such readings or following
them, except as pure research into the reach of the human
psyche, which some of them were. If this were a list for the
study of psychic phenomana, I would describe those things, name
names, and document what I've said, but this list is for UFO
studies, so let's get back to the issues at hand.

I suspect some might say something to the effect that with the
above discussions, "Ray is coming clean is only because he
doesn't want Dick Hall to reveal it on his terms, when such
things might be taken to reflect upon Stanford's critical
judgement in the Socorro sample affair." If any wishes to think
that way, I have no objection. If my former involvement in
contacteeism as a teenager or former involvement in psychic
studies is the only evidence against my credibility that Dick
might bring to this 'table', then I see why he wants to avoid
debating publicly with me.

Let's remember, Dick, that neither you nor I that should be 'on
trial' here. It is the government's seeming cover-up statement's
veracity that should be in debate.

Dick, I'm pre-empting these potential side-track issues in hopes
of inducing you to deal with the real cover-up issue (by the
government, not by you) in public debate, which you have
hitherto refused to do.

So, answer me, for the 'Nth time', Dick.: Answer us all,
please.: Have you bothered to ask a metallurgist or analytical
chemist if the alleged mistake you insist was made holds water
in the context of X-ray diffraction analysis? I have divulged my
result in doing exactly that. One might suspect you haven't
bothered to thus investigate and report in such a way. If such
an expert has taken your side on this, you'd better be ready to
name him or her, as did I in my book (naming the professor of
chemistry to whom I immediately talked).

And if you haven't consulted an expert (or several, as did I), I
recommend you immediately do so and report, or have the courtesy
to keep out of this matter because, otherwise, you are just
preaching unfounded opinion and asking others to believe it just
because you have contributed subsatantially to UFO history. One
does not necessarily follow from the other. I give credit where
it is due, but only there.

I truthfully and accurately reported:

 >>As a matter of fact Allen Hynek sent me several letters
 >>discussing Socorro. But he also (while visiting our project in
 >>Austin, Texas) made a statement in front of witnesses concerning
 >>the fact that he rejects the cover-up explanation, declaring,
 >>"If I were you, I would just forget the silica dioxide story and
 >>accept the original report of a zinc-iron allow. The X-ray
 >>diffraction pattern of silica dioxide can't be mistaken by an
 >>expert for that of a zinc-iron alloy."

 >>Then, Allen chuckled, adding, "That explanation was nothing
 >>short of silly!"

 >>Aside from me, there were at least six other witnesses to that
 >>statement by Hynek.

I hope that Dick notes that in Allen Hynek's statement to me and
at least six others (three of whom have now been identified) he
did not even mention Hall, as he (Hall) seems to feel should
have been done. Is Hall so important that any conversation
between Hynek and Stanford concerning the Socorro metallic
evidence need involve him? The issue was X-ray diffraction, not
Hall. I hope Dick gets the point, this time.

 >All right, now we are down to the nitty gritty. I just contacted
 >three people who were closely associated with Allen Hynek at the
 >Center for UFO Studies (Mark Rodeghier, Jerry Clark, and his
 >former research assistant Jennie Zeidman). None of them recall
 >him saying any such thing about the NASA-Goddard analysis of
 >alleged metal samples. What have you got to say about that, Ray?

I would say that it is irrelevent. None of them were down in
Texas with us that day.

As to why Allen may have said nothing about this to those
colleagues you mention, would you like me to use psychic ability
to tell you why? :o) Otherwise, how should I know? It was not my
responsibility to monitor Hynek's conversations with those good
people.

 >Don't you think that if he was aware of any such conclusion as
 >you claim that he would have made it known to his closest
 >associates?

See the above. I don't care what he did or didn't tell them. I
know Hynek was a fairly complex man, and the reasoning of such
people can sometimes be a bit difficult to follow. I only know
for sure, and report, what Hynek told us that evening in Texas.
What more would you expect of one who wants to keep this debate
fact based? (I will not speculate.)

 >Also, when the Center for UFO Studies was formed
 >following the 1973 UFO sighting wave, Allen Hynek personally
 >phoned me and invited me to be involved with CUFOS in some
 >capacity, and I have been a Contributing Editor ever since.

Good choice on Allen's part, but why should he have done
otherwise? He knew that the government coverup of the metallic
evidence from Socorro was not your fault. Certainly he was clear
on that from contact with me, if not from his contact with
Frankel long before Hynek and I talked about it.

 >He never raised any issue with me or asked me any questions about
 >the NASA-Goddard analysis either...

I suspect that's because he knew I was right and knew what your
comeback would be. If, as he told us, he knew that my side of
the issue was correct, why waste his very busy day getting a
second opinion?

 >You claim to have witnesses who heard him say otherwise. Well,
 >then, the burden of proof is on you. Either produce them ...or
 >back off.

Well, I did that for this List even before Dick asked. I didn't
back off. I repeat: three of the witnesses were Christopher d'
Etremont, John M. Lucas, and my wife.

Really, though, Hynek's positive opinion of my conclusions
should not be the final 'tea leaf reading' as to whether there
was a cover-up at Goddard. Professional metallurgists familiar
with X-ray diffraction analysis should be the jury. Shall we
assemble a panel of such experts? In that way, Dick could avoid
the debate with me and we would have a truly expert jury.

Would you consent to that, Dick? If not, face up to the debate
or forever hold your peace.

Hall says that I backed down on certain issues mentioned in my
book. I don't recall doing so, but if I did, it was only
because I felt he was right on something and that I felt I was
wrong. But I never backed down in this issue. Period. So, what
does that (however it may have been) have to do with this?

Gentlemen and gentlewomen will admit their error. Others seldon
do so.

 >Okay, macho man, play your trump card. And I hope the probably
 >bored observers of this donnybrook will at least have the
 >courtesy to insist that you produce something meaningful, or get
 >off the pot. Courtesy to me who has no apologies to make for my
 >contributions to this field and only wishes that noisemakers
 >like you would shut up and go away.

Maybe other Listers are bored by now (Sorry, gals and guys.),
but Hall doesn't seem to be.

Come to think of it, since I'm nearly 65 years of age and
loosing a lot of my 'testostreronal jump-start', his calling me
"macho man" makes be feel really good!

Thanks, Dick!

Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery







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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Apr > Apr 10

                New Evidence: Ancient Indian Science of Space

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 17:03:53 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 17:03:53 -0400
Subject: New Evidence: Ancient Indian Science of Space



Source: The India Times

http://learning.indiatimes.com/gobble/scifi/sciencefront.htm

Science Frontiers

Theories. Discoveries. Old Manuscripts. Some of them are plain
obvious, some are startling and some may change our future
entirely_

New Evidence: Ancient Indian Science of Space Travel!

Directions for building interstellar spaceships. 'Anti-
gravitational' method of propulsion.

An ancient manuscript written in the 4th Century BC Discovered
in Tibet and Lhasa by the Chinese. The frontiers of what is
possible in science are being stretched.

While the world is busy launching spacecraft into the unknown
universe the Chinese discover something in the mountains of
Tibet and Lhasa. They are a bundle of strange Sanskrit
documents!

The documents are sent to Dr. Ruth Reyna, University of
Chandigarh, for translation and special comments. Dr. Reyna's
findings are eye-opening. She declares that the manuscripts
contain the following:

1. Directions for building interstellar spaceships with a method
of propulsion that are essentially anti-gravitational. The
method was similar to that of laghima, the power of man's ego.
It is described as 'a centrifugal force strong enough to
counteract all gravitational pull'. Hindu Yogis claim it is a
man's laghima that allows for his body to levitate (rise defying
gravity).

2. These machines are called astras!

3. The text also contains claims that ancient Indians could have
sent detachments of men onto any planet.

4. The secrets of antima (cover of invisibility) and of garima
(method of making one's body as heavy as 'a mountain of lead')
are revealed. The Chinese are including certain parts of this
data in their space program research and study.

5. It has mention of a planned trip to the moon.






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   Apr > Apr 10

                     I've Had My Phil, And Other Stories

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 21:32:21 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 18:12:53 -0400
Subject: I've Had My Phil, And Other Stories


Okay, folks. "I've had my Phil" with the noxious smoke clouds
being emitted by Ray Stanford, and intend to move on to other,
more constructive, things. I have called in a few chips from
long-time friends and colleagues, and should they submit
anything relevant, I will post it. Otherwise, I think his post
of today will supply discerning readers with all they need to
evaluate his claims. If not, I suggest they do some homework. He
has a long track record of believing three impossible things
before breakfast. He certainly does not lack imagination.

The "I've had my Phil [Klass]" in the subject line refers to a
private paper that Jim McDonald sent to me after Klass had
engaged in serious character assassination against him that
resulted in a loss of Navy research contracts. The full title
was "A Klassic case, or I've had my Phil." Jim had a great sense
of humor.

I come now to praise a new book about to hit the streets by Ann
Druffel, titled "Firestorm: Dr. James E. McDonald's Fight for
UFO Science" (Wild Flower Press, 2003; ISBN 0-926524-58-5).
Although it is ultimately a tragedy, the story she tells
accurately reconstructs the huge sighting waves of the mid-
1960s, the spirit of the times, McDonald's role, the activities
of NICAP and the University of Colorado UFO Project.
[Incidentally, it covers some history of the Socorro case.]

I have written a review of it for the International UFO
Reporter. Suffice it to say, this is an excellent book which I
particularly commend to the attention of our British skeptical
colleagues. This is post-graduate course material.

  - Dick Hall








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   Apr > Apr 11

                  Re: Filer's Files #15 -- 2003 - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 19:29:52 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 05:27:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #15 -- 2003 - Stanford


 >From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 14:21:44 EDT
 >Subject: Filer's Files #15 -- 2003

 >From Filer's Files # 15:

 >DR HERMAN OBERTH FATHER OF ROCKETRY SAYS UFOs EXIST

 >"We find ourselves faced by powers which are far stronger than
 >we had hitherto assumed, and whose base is at present unknown to
 >us. More I cannot say at present. We are now engaged in entering
 >into closer contact with those powers, and in six or nine months
 >time it may be possible to speak with some precision on the
 >matter."

Fellow Listers,

Don't hold your breath waiting, Herman Oberth died over a bit 13
years ago.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method.  It is founded upon the observance of trifles." --
Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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   Apr > Apr 11

                        Ann Druffel's 'Firestorm:...'

From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 21:06:30 -0300
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 05:32:16 -0400
Subject: Ann Druffel's 'Firestorm:...'


 >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 21:32:21 +0000
 >Subject: I've Had My Phil, And Other Stories

<snip>

 >I come now to praise a new book about to hit the streets by Ann
 >Druffel, titled "Firestorm: Dr. James E. McDonald's Fight for
 >UFO Science" (Wild Flower Press, 2003; ISBN 0-926524-58-5).
 >Although it is ultimately a tragedy, the story she tells
 >accurately reconstructs the huge sighting waves of the mid-
 >1960s, the spirit of the times, McDonald's role, the activities
 >of NICAP and the University of Colorado UFO Project.
 >[Incidentally, it covers some history of the Socorro case.]

 >I have written a review of it for the International UFO
 >Reporter. Suffice it to say, this is an excellent book which I
 >particularly commend to the attention of our British skeptical
 >colleagues. This is post-graduate course material.


I must add my plaudits to Dick's. I just completed the book and
found it outstanding.

The official pub date, I was told today, is July 3 and the price
$34. With appendices and index it is well over 600 pages.

Ann has really dug into Jim's files. I think some was probably
written a few years ago, so is not quite up to date on things
like MJ-12. But it should be required reading for anybody with a
serious interest in the subject... especially younger people who
weren't around when Jim was so very active.

I tell people that his congressional paper (41 cases, 71 pages)
is the best single paper on carefully investigated cases about
which I am aware. If only he had written his book.....


Stan Friedman








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   Apr > Apr 11

                 DOI/BLM Falls On Its FOIA-Processing Sword

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net>
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 19:37:41 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 05:34:48 -0400
Subject: DOI/BLM Falls On Its FOIA-Processing Sword


[Q: Which U. S. agency qualifies as the "Most Bureaucratic
      Organization in the History of the Republic"?

  A: Nope, it's NOT the U. S. Postal Service!]



TO: Larry W. Bryant

FROM: Donna Vogt
       Office of the [DOI] Secretary (FOIA Office)
       U. S. Department of the Interior
       Washington, DC 20240

DATE: April 8, 2003

Dear Mr. Bryant:

Your May [sic] 7, 2003, letter sent to the Secretary, FOIA
Manager, and the General Counsel, U. S. Department of the
Interior has been forwarded to the Office of the Secretary FOIA
office for processing. It is the Office of the Secretary's
understanding that you want us to:

"Process this numbered subparagraph as a new, supplementary FOIA
request -- viz., for a copy of the entire contents to date of
the BLM-maintained case file on my original request and
subsequent appeal."

Your request was received in the Office of the Secretary FOIA
office on April 4, 2003, and assigned control number OS-2003-
00559. Please cite this number in any future correspondence or
communication with the Office of the Secretary regarding your
FOIA request.

With respect to your request:

1. As you are, no doubt, aware, the FOIA is not free. Under our
regulations, individuals filing requests for access to agency
documents are required to specify the fee category into which
their requests fall: commercial, news media, noncommercial
scientific institution or other (43 CFR 2.17(a)). Additionally,
requesters filing requests for access to agency documents are
required to specify the maximum amount of fees that they are
willing to pay for processing their requests.

According to our regulations (43 CFR Part 2, Appendix C), the
Department charges the following fees for the processing of
Freedom of Information Act requests: Clerical search/review
time: $4.60 per 1/4 hour; Professional search/review time: $8.00
per 1/4 hour; Managerial search/review time: $11.60 per 1/4
hour; Photocopying: $.13 per page.

2. We have classed your request as an "other-use request." This
means that we have determined that it is neither a "commercial-
use request" nor one placed by a member of the news media or a
representative of an educational or noncommercial scientific
institution. As an "other-use requester," you are entitled to
receive 2 hours of search time and 100 pages of duplication of
responsive records without charge, before being asked to pay for
document search and reproduction. Additionally, the Department
of the Interior does not bill requesters for FOIA fees incurred
in processing "other-use requests" when their fees do not exceed
$30.00, after the subtraction of their entitlements, because the
cost of collection would be greater than the fee collected.

Given what you have asked for in your request, it is possible
that the cost of processing your request, after subtracting your
entitlements, will exceed $30.00. Insofar as you have not
agreed, in writing, to pay the costs that will be incurred in
the processing of your request, we cannot begin its processing
at this time. Under our regulations, an other-use request that
does not include a statement that the requester is willing to
pay the fees likely to be incurred in the processing of his/her
request may be deemed to have been "not received" by the agency
receiving it, for the purposes of the 20-working day processing
limit mandated by the law. You may provide us with your written
assurance of payment in one of several ways:

a. You may provide us with an upper limit of what we are to
incur, on your behalf, in processing your request. In this
instance, should the actual cost of processing your request
reach this limit, we will contact you before proceeding to incur
any additional costs to your account, provide you with our best
estimate of the total cost of processing your request, and
contact you to obtain your approval before completing the
processing of your request.

b. You may reduce the scope of your request, so as to limit the
amount of search time and photocopying that would be required to
process your request, such that your fee does not exceed $30.00.

c. You may ask us to prepare an estimate of the amount that you
would be likely to incur should we process your request to
completion, at this time. Be advised, however, if you ask us for
a fee estimate, first, without agreeing to pay any given amount,
we cannot begin processing any portion of your request until
after we provide you, in writing, with the estimate, and receive
written assurance of your willingness to pay this amount. This
will add still more time to the processing of your request.

d. You may withdraw your request altogether.

If we do not hear from you in 20 working days of the date of
this letter, we are closing our file on your request. (43 CFR
2.18(d))

If you have any questions regarding what we are asking you to
provide, you may contact me by phone at 202-208-3552, by fax at
202-219-2374, by e-mail at osfoia@nbc.gov, or by mail at U. S.
Department of the Interior, MS 1413 MIB, Washington, D.C. 20240.
Alternatively, you can provide us with a phone number at which
you can be reached, along with the time of day that you prefer
to be contacted, and we can attempt to contact you, at our
expense, to answer any questions that you might have, regarding
your request. Within the Office of the Secretary, we are
committed to providing you, our customer, with the highest
quality of service possible.

PRIVACY ACT Notice: Before you choose to contact us,
electronically, there are a few things you should know. The
information you submit, including your electronic address, may
be seen by various people. We will scan a copy of your request
into our electronic OS FOIA administrative/image file. We will
key the information that you provide to us into our electronic
OS FOIA tracking file. We may share it with other individuals,
both within and without the Department, involved in Freedom of
Information Act administration. You may be contacted by any of
these individuals. In other limited circumstances, including
requests from Congress or private individuals, we may be
required by law to disclose some of the information you submit.
Also, e-mail is not necessarily secure against interception. If
your communication is very sensitive, or includes personal
information like your bank account, charge card, or social
security number, you might want to send it by postal mail,
instead.

Cc: John Livornese/BLM FOIA Officer;
    William W. Wolf, FOIA Appeals Officer







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              Re: Press Release - Frivolous Litigation Fails -

From: Royce J. Myers III - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 20:57:45 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 06:03:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Press Release - Frivolous Litigation Fails -


 >From: Steve in Bama <sdo1@mynra.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 23:42:51 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Press Release - Frivolous Litigation Fails

 >>From: Royce J. Myers III - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 14:07:33 -0700
 >>Subject: Press Release - Frivolous Litigation Fails

 >>UFOWATCHDOG.COM PREVAILS IN COURT
 >>Frivolous Litigation Fails To Silence Website

 >><snip>

 >>>On April 1, 2003, Myers was notified of Judge Nishimoto's final
 >>>ruling, which was in favor of UFOWATCHDOG.COM. In a two-page

 >I hope you are aware that Morton was on George Noory's Coast to
 >Coast a couple weeks ago declaring that the suit was one that he
 >was going to win with no problem...

 >Congratulations! Keep up the great work, Royce!

Yes, this is the same Coast To Coast AM that Mr. Morton falsely
accused me of "attacking" his mother, wife, and family. There
were no attacks made and I also enjoyed the fact that Mr. Morton
didn't say whom he was suing and that Coast To Coast host George
Noory didn't say it either.

One of the claims made by Mr. Morton was that he worked on Star
Trek with Gene Roddenberry. That claim is well refuted by four
people that either worked for or were very close to Gene
Roddenberry. One of those people was Roddenberry's official
biographer, David Alexander.

Mr. Alexander sent an e-mail and a fax to Bell refuting Morton's
claims. Of course, Mr. Alexander never heard back from Bell.
Same thing with George Noory - Mr. Alexander sent an e-mail and
did not receive a response. The following was sent to George
Noory by Mr. Alexander:


Mr. Noory,

I am the authorized biographer of the late Gene Roddenberry.
Gene chose me to tell his life story which resulted in "Star
Trek Creator: The Authorized Biography of Gene Roddenberry,"
published by ROC an imprint of NAL/Dutton.

I write because I understand that Sean David Morton continues to
claim a relationship with Gene Roddenberry. Morton has made
claims of being Gene's "protege", and others, such as working on
various Star Trek projects.

In the nearly three years I was friends with Gene (the last
three years of his life), during the two and one-half years I
spent researching and writing his biography which included an
examination of his personal archive, the Star Trek Archive in
the Special Collections Department of UCLA, and over 150
interviews of friends, associates, co-workers, colleagues, not
once did I ever hear the name Sean David Morton.

In addition to this, Richard Arnold, Gene's long-time archivist
at the studio and Susan Sackett, Gene's secretary for nearly
twenty years, never heard of Morton either. To their knowledge
Morton never visited Gene in his office, never worked on the
film or films he claims, never was associated with Gene
Roddenberry in any manner whatsoever. In addition, Gene's widow,
Majel Barrett Roddenberry doesn't know who Morton is, either.

In an exchange of e-mail with Morton a few years ago, I asked
him about his association with Gene. What he supplied was out of
sync with Gene's life - Morton claimed to have been present when
Gene "suffered a nervous breakdown and was escorted off the lot
by security" (an event that never happened) or that he was
instrumental in Patrick Stewart gaining the role of Captain
Picard on Star Trek: The Next Generation.

Robert Justman, Gene's friend and Associate Producer from the
original series, took Gene to see Stewart at a local theater.
Gene was against having Stewart play the role until Justman
championed the unknown British actor. Morton had nothing to do
with it. In this I am certain, having heard the story directly
from both Justman and Stewart at various times.

Had Morton been associated in any professional manner with Gene
there would have been a paper trail, someone would have
mentioned his name... certainly those closest to Gene in his
many years on the Paramount lot would have known his name or
suggested I interview him for my book. His name never came up at
any point in the extensive research and many intereviews I
conducted preparitory to writing Gene's 600-page bio.

 From that I can safely conclude that Sean David Morton is not
telling the truth about his relationship with Gene Roddenberry
and is trying to exploit the memory of a beloved American icon.
You do not benefit the public by aiding Morton in his fantasy.


David Alexander
(***) ***-****







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                           New Programs On Sci-Fi

From: Tim Edwards <tedwards@wiredog.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 03:57:21 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 06:07:54 -0400
Subject: New Programs On Sci-Fi


FYI!


There is a new non-fiction 'documentary' airing on the Sci-Fi
Channel beginning Tuesday, April 15th @ 8:00 pm et.

 From available description(s) below, it promises to be very
interesting!

--

SCI FI - Tuesday Declassified - A fascinating new series of
original two-hour documentary specials that delve into the truth
behind unexplained phenomena, in the spirit of 'The Roswell
Crash: Startling New Evidence', will launch with four
groundbreaking investigations that uncover new and explosive
evidence using the forensic tools of modern science.

Every Tuesday starting April 15th, our new primetime block of
non-fiction programming offers real-world investigations of such
topics as UFOs, ghosts and ESP.

--

Following are the scheduled airtimes and episode info for April:
[all episodes are listed in Eastern time]

--
Tuesday, April 15th

8:00 pm - Tuesday Declassified: UFO Chronicles
Investigative reports of contacts, abductions, landings and
sightings through testimony of witnesses, photos and video

9:00 pm - Tuesday Declassified: Alien Gods
Examination of alien cults, from Heaven's Gate to the Raelians
cloning group

10:00 pm - Tuesday Declassified: The Secret
Disclosure of government files behind the cover-up of UFO
information

--

Tuesday, April 22nd

7:00 pm - Tuesday Declassified: Ghost Stories
Hosted by Patrick Macnee, an exploration of famous ghost
encounters in history and in modern times

8:00 pm - Tuesday Declassified: California's Most Haunted
Five documented stories of the paranormal, including footage of
apparent spirits

9:00 pm - Tuesday Declassified: An Unknown Encounter
Two-hour special featuring actual footage of the infamous San
Piedro haunting

--

Tuesday, April 29th

8:00 pm - Tuesday Declassified: Miracles
Hosted by Lee Majors, a worldwide look into such extraordinary
wonders as spontaneous healings and unexplained life-altering
events

9:00 pm - Tuesday Declassified: Crop Circles: Quest for Truth
Two-hour documentary from Academy Award-nominated director
William Gazecki (Waco: The Rules of Engagement) featuring never-
before-seen footage and interviews with leading researchers and
scientists, offering an in-depth examination of prevailing
theories about the origin and nature of crop circles and the
possible implications for the future of Earth

--

There are also additional episodes of Tuesday Declassified
airing on May 20th and 27th.

There is additional info available for these programs here:

http://www.scifi.com/onair/specials/

As with other series, I expect Sci-Fi.com to add a section for
this series to its site soon.

--

Also of interest, there are additional upcoming Sci-Fi programs
listed here:

SCI FI Gets Real:

http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/print.cgi?2003-04/02/13.00.sfc

--
*So much to learn and so little time!*

DreamScape
http://tedwards.topcities.com/dreamscape.htm








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   Apr > Apr 11

                 Re: Ann Druffell's 'Firestorm:...' - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 11:14:14 -0300
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 19:34:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Ann Druffell's 'Firestorm:...' - Ledger


 >From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 21:06:30 -0300
 >Subject: Ann Druffell's 'Firestorm:...'

 >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 21:32:21 +0000
 >>Subject: I've Had My Phil, And Other Stories

 ><snip>

 >I must add my plaudits to Dick's. I just completed the book and
 >found it outstanding.

 >The official pub date, I was told today, is July 3 and the
 >price $34. With appendices and index it is well over 600 pages.

 >Ann has really dug into Jim's files. I think some was probably
 >written a few years ago, so is not quite up to date on things
 >like MJ-12. But it should be required reading for anybody with a
 >serious interest in the subject... especially younger people who
 >weren't around when Jim was so very active.

 >I tell people that his congressional paper (41 cases, 71 pages)
 >is the best single paper on carefully investigated cases about
 >which I am aware. If only he had written his book.....


Hi Dick and Stan,

"Firestorm" sounds very interesting. Dr. MacDonald has been one
of my heros. I hope that the price you quoted, Stan, was in
Canadian funds. As it was I had to take out a second mortgage to
get Dick's "The UFO Evidence II" in Canadian funds.


Best,

Don Ledger






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                 Request For A FOIA-Fee Waiver From DOI/BLM

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net>
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 16:28:50 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 19:43:24 -0400
Subject: Request For A FOIA-Fee Waiver From DOI/BLM


TO:  MS. Donna Vogt
      Freedom of Information Officer (MS 1413 MIB)
      Office of the Secretary of the Interior
      Headquarters, U. S. Department of the Interior
      Washington, DC  20240

FROM:  Larry W. Bryant
        3518 Martha Custis Drive
        Alexandria, VA  22302

DATE:  April 11, 2003

Referring to your letter to me of April 8, 2003 (by which you
acknowledge receipt of my March 7, 2003, FOIA request No. OS-
2003-00559 (initially misidentified by you as "MAY 7, 2003")), I
hereby contest your arbitrary labeling that request as an
"other-use request."

Please note that I've submitted the request in my capacity as a
member of the UFO-awareness press (mainly as a columnist for the
Internet website of http://www.ufocity.com , which is operated
by Central Park Media in New York City; and as a contributor to
the website of the public-interest group Citizens Against UFO
Secrecy -- caus.org ).  Of course, I readily can augment my
requester status by citing my role as director of governmental
affairs for the internationally constituted Mutual UFO Network,
Inc. (a "501C(3)" public charity whose chief aim is to help
educate the public about UFO reality).

But regardless of how anyone chooses to categorize my status,
the obvious public-interest nature of the request outweighs any
agency effort to marginalize it via arbitrary pigeonholing.

As you are, no doubt, aware:  at least PART of the FOIA-
processing system IS "free" whenever an agency chooses to waive
records-search/review fees.  Accordingly, I hereby ask that your
agency waive all such records-search/review fees incident to
your fulfilling my FOA request of March 7, 2003.  Your granting
this fee-waiver request would benefit your department's public
image and credibility -- inasmuch as the prompt, full disclosure
of the sought-for FOIA-case-file records would, by definition,
contribute to the public's understanding (and evaluation) of the
DOI/BLM policy/programs/practices inherent in the department's
response to controversial FOIA requests.

Should you choose to deny this fee-waiver request, please
identify for me the DOI official authorizing the denial, the
rationale for his/her decision, and the appeals process by which
I may contest the denial and prepare for eventual judicial
review thereof.



LARRY W. BRYANT
Director, Washington, D.C., Office of
Citizens Against UFO Secrecy

P.S.:  By snail-mail, I'm sending to you a signed printout of
this e-formatted request.

Copies furnished to:

Mark S. Zaid, Esq. (Washington, D.C.)

Peter Robbins, Editor-in-Chief, UFOcity.com

Chairman, Subcommittee on Government Information, Management,
and Technology -- U. S. House of Representatives

Chairman, U. S. Senate Committee on the Judiciary

Director, Public Citizen






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                   Mysterious Lights In The Sky 02-27-1913

From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 22:16:43 -0300
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 07:58:06 -0400
Subject: Mysterious Lights In The Sky 02-27-1913


Source: The Guardian - UK

http://www.guardiancentury.co.uk/1910-1919/Story/0,6051,126427,00.html

Reported visits of German airships
Reasons for doubt

Thursday February 27, 1913

During the past week scores of persons in various parts of
England have convinced themselves that they have seen an airship
in the night sky. Most of the reports agree that two bright
lights appeared close together, hovered in the air for a time,
and then rapidly disappeared. Some of the observers add that
they heard the droning of an engine. The reports come from
several places on the east coast and also Portsmouth. Based on
these facts suggestions are now being made in many quarters and
positive assertions in others that German airships have
travelled each night over England.

For many reasons such a conclusion should be regarded with grave
suspicion. First there is no satisfactory evidence that an
airship has been seen. Four years ago several English newspapers
spent many days working up an airship scare which in the end
feebly frittered out. At that time the evidence was as good as
the evidence advanced to-day. No doubt the observers who report
the lights act in good faith, but even an expert would find
considerable difficulty in making sure of the presence of a
dirigible at night. And the observers have not been experts.
Moreover, a vessel paying a secret and unwelcome visit to
England would have every reason for hiding her lights, which she
could easily do. An interesting fact bearing on this point is
that the lights have usually been seen in the western sky about
the time when the planet Venus, now very bright, is sinking
towards that horizon.

http://www.guardiancentury.co.uk/1910-1919/Story/0,6051,126427,00.html








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                  Re: Ann Druffell's 'Firestorm:...' - Bott

From: Murray Bott <murrayb@win.co.nz>
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 13:54:20 +1200 (NZST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 08:00:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Ann Druffell's 'Firestorm:...' - Bott


Greetings Richard and List

Can someone tell me when this will be available for sale, and
where someone like myself can obtain a copy (as well as price
etc)

I hold some correspondence between Jim McDonald and Harold
Fulton at the time of his brief stop-over in Auckland (New
Zealand). Harold traveled all the way to Auckland and with two
Auckland based researchers hosted Jim McDonald for a day.

Certainly I hope to obtain a copy in due course if someone can
tell me where to obtain a copy plus cost etc etc,

Regards

Murray Bott

--
Email : murrayb@win.co.nz
Voice : 64-9-6345285
Snail : PO Box 27117, Mt Roskill, Auckland 1030, New Zealand





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                     Sincere Thanks From ufowatchdog.com

From: Royce J. Myers III - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 00:15:18 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 08:01:49 -0400
Subject: Sincere Thanks From ufowatchdog.com


Listers,

I want to sincerely thank everyone out there for their support
while I dealt with the bogus lawsuit filed against
UFOWATCHDOG.COM by self-proclaimed "World's Foremost UFO
Researcher" Sean David Morton. As evident by the presiding
judge's order to dismiss the lawsuit, Mr. Morton had more than
ample opportunity to prove his case in court. Under the law, Mr.
Morton only needed to demonstrate that UFOWATCHDOG.COM had made
a single false statement regarding him or his claims and he
failed to do so.

I wanted to take this opportunity to share the message that was
sent to Mr. Morton from me requesting comment from him. To date,
the only communication received from Mr. Morton was through the
editor of his Delphi Associates newsletter, Melissa Ann Morton,
whom stated nothing more than, "Just great..."

Please find my message to Mr. Morton at the bottom of this e-
mail. While I have sent a copy to my attorney, I wanted to make
sure there was a record of it elsewhere. This is due to
Mr.Morton's claim in his court papers that he only found about
the UFOWATCHDOG.COM website this past June 2002, of which I have
evidence that was submitted to the courts clearly demonstrating
Mr. Morton had full knowledge over two-years ago. I just hope
that Mr. Morton decides to do the responsible thing and
directly comment instead of resorting to a lawsuit.

Thank you again for all of your support and I hope this to be a
breaking point where people start taking a hard look at those
individuals and organizations that do far more harm than good. I
am of the opinion that this field merits serious scientific
inquiry, not weird flavored cult entities spreading bunk alien
messages and representing themselves as Ufological Authorities.


Regards,

Royce J. Myers III
UFOWATCHDOG.COM
"Don't Trip On Your Open Mind...or your own two feet in a rush to sue
someone over something you didn't have the courage to comment on...

-----

From: THE WATCHDOG
To: vajra777@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 3:01 PM
Subject: Request For Comment

Sean David Morton,

You are once again directly invited to comment on
UFOWATCHDOG.COM's findings regarding your claims. You have been
familiar with the website and its contents for over two years
now. You've been provided numerous opportunities to respond.

Please feel free to send your comments to

ufowatchdog@earthlink.net


Regards,

Royce J. Myers III
UFOWATCHDOG.COM
"Don't Trip On Your Open Mind"

cc: Law Office of Carol A. Sobel







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                        A (Buried) Mea Culpa From BLM

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net>
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 01:25:02 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 08:04:30 -0400
Subject: A (Buried) Mea Culpa From BLM


TO: Larry W. Bryant

FROM: Ms. Linda S. C. Rundell
       State Director of the New Mexico State Office
       of the U. S. Bureau of Land Management

DATE: April 4, 2003

Dear Mr. Bryant:

This is a follow-up response to your Freedom of Information Act
(FOIA) request dated November 7, 2002 (FOIA NM-2003-07). It also
serves as a follow-up response to your letter to the Department
of the Interior dated February 10, 2003. On March 3, 2003, the
Department of the Interior FOIA Appeals Officer advised you that
they were not able to processs your letter as a FOIA appeal,
since your FOIA appeal was filed in excess of the 30-day time
limitation. By copy of their letter, they referred your February
10, 2003, letter to our office to be treated as a new FOIA
request.

In your initial request dated November 7, 2002, you requested a
copy of any and all records pertaining to the Standard
Archeological Plan for the excavation of the Roswell UFO-crash-
landing debris field (designated as NM site No. 1000000).

On December 11, 2002, we provided you with a copy of the subject
document (15 pages). However, specific site location information
was redacted from this document without citing Exemption 3 of
the FOIA to withhold this information. We apologize for the
confusion in this matter.

Enclosed is a copy of the requested record provided on December
11, 2002, with site location information redacted and Exemption
3 cited on the actual document (16 pages [the 16th one being
blank so as to represent the redacted map]). We are withholding
the specific site location information under Exemption 3 of the
FOIA (5 USC 552(b)(3)). Exemption 3 of the FOIA allows an agency
to withhold records that are specifically exempt from disclosure
by other Federal Statutes, i.e., the National Historic
Preservation Act Amendments of 1980.

The person responsible for the partial denial for withholding of
records under Exemption 3 of the FOIA is the undersigned as the
State Director, New Mexico State Office, Bureau of Land
Management, Santa Fe, New Mexico, in consultation with Arthur
Arguedas, Field Solicitor, Santa Fe, New Mexico.

Under 43 CFR 2.18 (2001), you may appeal this partial denial
under Exemption 3 by writing to: Freedom of Information Act
Appeals Officer; U.S. Department of the Interior - MS-5312, MIB;
1849 C Street, NW, Washington, DC 20240.

Your appeal must be received no later than 30 workdays after the
date of this letter. The appeal should be marked, both on the
envelope and the face of the appeal letter, with the legend
"FREEDOM OF INFORMATION APPEAL." A copy of your original request
should accompany your appeal and this letter, along with any
information you have which leads you to believe this decision is
in error.

Cost recovery fees are not charged since costs for these records
(16 pages) do not exceed the collectible threshold of $30.00 (43
CFR 2.16(b)(2)) (Federal Register Vol. 67, No. 203, dated
October 21, 2002).

Questions pertaining to the enclosed records may be referred to
Howard Parman, Roswell Field Office FOIA Coordinator, at (505)
627-0212. Questions pertaining to FOIA matters may be directed
to Eileen G. Vigil, State FOIA Coordinator, at (505) 438-7636.







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                 Re: Ann Druffell's 'Firestorm:...' - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 08:17:34 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 08:32:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Ann Druffell's 'Firestorm:...' - Kaeser


 >From: Murray Bott <murrayb@win.co.nz>
 >To: Updates List <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 13:54:20 +1200 (NZST)
 >Subject: Re: Ann Druffell's 'Firestorm:...'

 >Greetings Richard and List

 >Can someone tell me when this will be available for sale, and
 >where someone like myself can obtain a copy (as well as price
 >etc)


Murray-

This book, which is highly praised by many, is not yet available, but you
can pre-order it at Amazon.com.  You can find details at

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0926524585/qid=1050149890/sr=1-4/r
ef=sr_1_4/102-3938016-4093745?v=glance&s=books


Steve







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                 Re: Ann Druffell's 'Firestorm:...' - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 05:59:24 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 11:30:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Ann Druffell's 'Firestorm:...' - Hatch


 >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 08:17:34 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Ann Druffell's 'Firestorm:...'

 >>From: Murray Bott <murrayb@win.co.nz>
 >>To: Updates List <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 13:54:20 +1200 (NZST)
 >>Subject: Re: Ann Druffell's 'Firestorm:...'

 >>Greetings Richard and List

 >>Can someone tell me when this will be available for sale, and
 >>where someone like myself can obtain a copy (as well as price
 >>etc)

 >Murray-

 >This book, which is highly praised by many, is not yet
 >available, but you
 >can pre-order it at Amazon.com.  [snip -LH]


Hello Steve:


I'm a bit dim at the moment [burp!] so forgive me.

If the book is unavailable for now, how did it get such high
praise? I'm sure the praise will be well merited once the book
actually comes out, its just the sequence of events that
confuses me.

Were pre-prints sent out?


Thanks in advance

- Larry Hatch






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                Re: Ann Druffell's 'Firestorm:...' - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 12:07:45 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 17:59:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Ann Druffell's 'Firestorm:...' - Stanford


 >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 05:59:24 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Ann Druffell's 'Firestorm:...'

 >I'm a bit dim at the moment [burp!] so forgive me.

 >If the book is unavailable for now, how did it get such high
 >praise? I'm sure the praise will be well merited once the book
 >actually comes out, its just the sequence of events that
 >confuses me.

 >Were pre-prints sent out?

Larry and List,

In fact, publishers often encourage authors to distribute
manuscript copies to well-known colleagues engaged in the same
areas covered by a book, in order, hopefully, to elicit positive
comments for use in advertising and on the book cover, per se.

In this case, for example, Hall and Friedman are well-known for
their contributions to Ufology, and it is reasonable that they
should have been invited to comment. I appreciate their alerting
us to this very important and (I'm betting on it.) highly
interesting and important book, and, responsively, have pre-
ordered a copy via www.amazon.com .

I haven't even read the manuscript, but suspect it may come to
be regarded as an important, truly 'landmark', document in
UFOlogy.

Jim McDonald's death was a terrible loss to Ufology. Aside from
that, he was a very nice person who just happened to be Senior
Physicist, Institute of Atmospheric Physics, the University of
Arizona, Tucson.


Ray Stanford








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                        Looking For Bonnybridge Photo

From: Chris Burns <Thurstonoreggae@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 14:54:12 EDT
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 18:00:43 -0400
Subject: Looking For Bonnybridge Photo


Hey list,

I was wondering if someone can help me out. I'm looking for a
high-res copy/jpeg file of the famous UFO photo from the Polmont
Reservoir/Grangemouth area in/near Bonnybridge, Scotland. It was
taken by Phil Trevis who used to go by the alias Peter Muir. I'm
also looking for any analysis (if it exists) on this photo.

If anyone is not familiar with this photo, it shows an amazingly
detailed "craft" taken from directly below it. Now, truthfully,
I do not know much about this photo, and it of course could be a
hoax. But if it is, the job was absolutely brilliant with the
photographer doing his homework about how nocturnal "craft"
sightings are generally reported. What gave me pause when I saw
the photo years ago is the softness of the lights, which
reminded me of the direction Hynek and Vallee gave Spielberg and
Douglas Trumbull on how to make the UFOs in Close Encounters
appear.

I am very curious to know more about this photo, and to get a
good copy to examine.

Thanks ahead of time,


Chris Burns






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             Genie Has Escaped The DOI/BLM Bottle - FOIA Appeal

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net>
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 17:03:27 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 18:08:03 -0400
Subject: Genie Has Escaped The DOI/BLM Bottle - FOIA Appeal


TO:    Mr. William W. Wolf
        Freedom of Information Act Appeals Officer
        U. S. Department of the Interior (MS-5312, MIB)
        1849 C Street, N.W.
        Washington, DC  20240

FROM:  Larry W. Bryant
        3518 Martha Custis Drive
        Alexandria, VA  22302

DATE:  April 12, 2003

Referring to the Bureau of Land Management-N.M. state director
Linda S. C. Rundell's letter to me of April 4, 2003 (by which
she partially denies my FOIA request No. FOIA NM-2003-07, as
regards the exact location of the "Roswell Dig" site), I hereby
formally appeal that denial on the following grounds:

(1)  The denial fails to specify the precise
section/paragraph/subparagraph of the National Historic
Preservation Act (cum a precise, written DOI/BLM interpretation
thereof) that allegedly authorizes the denial.  Hence, this
erroneously justified denial puts me at a distinct disadvantage
in advancing the cause of unfettered public access to the
withheld information.

(2)  The DOI/BLM original decision to share the sought-for
information with at least two other third parties (the
University of New Mexico and the USA Cable Network's SciFi
Channel) while withholding it from me burdens my rights under
the equal-protection clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the
U. S. Constitution.  Thus, the initial-denial official has
exceeded her authority via this discriminatory action toward
suppressing full dissemination of public information.

(3)  The denial sets a dangerous, unacceptable precedent for
denying full public access to official records and real-time
data pertaining to any future case of UFO-crash-
landing/retrieval operations -- inasmuch as such a "historic
event/site" can be arbitrarily interpreted by your department as
warranting nondisclosure to all but certain (secretly)
preselected parties.  This unintended consequence of the
National Historic Preservation Act must be avoided and, should
it occur, must be subjected to legal challenge.

(4)  My FOIA-requester status as a member of the UFO-awareness
press (mainly as a columnist for the Internet website of
http://www.ufocity.com ) entitles me to the full, unequivocal
freedom-of-the-press protection afforded by the First Amendment
to the U. S. Constitution.  Your agency's unfounded reliance on,
and misinterpretation of, the National Historic Preservation Act
to censor the sought-for information infringes on my free-press
rights and constitutes irreparable harm thereto, thus setting
the stage for me to seek immediate declaratory and injunctive
relief from federal district court.

Given the heightened public interest in the outcome of this
controversy, I ask that you assign a high priority to my appeal,
to expedite its processing, and to sustain it with all
deliberate speed.  Please note that, by snail-mail, I'm sending
to you a signed printout of this e-formatted letter.


LARRY W. BRYANT
Director, Washington, D.C., Office of
Citizens Against UFO Secrecy

P.S.:  "Information is PROPERTY, and public information is PUBLIC
property." -- The FOIA Genie

Copies furnished to:

Mark S. Zaid, Esq. (Washington, D.C.)

Peter Robbins, Editor-in-Chief, UFOcity.com

Chairman, Subcommittee on Government Information, Management, and
Technology -- U. S. House of Representatives

Chairman, U. S. Senate Committee on the Judiciary

Director, The Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press







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                  Re: Ann Druffell's 'Firestorm:...' - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 22:00:34 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 18:11:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Ann Druffell's 'Firestorm:...' - Hall


 >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 05:59:24 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Ann Druffell's 'Firestorm:...'

 >>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 08:17:34 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: Ann Druffell's 'Firestorm:...'

 >>>From: Murray Bott <murrayb@win.co.nz>
 >>>To: Updates List <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 13:54:20 +1200 (NZST)
 >>>Subject: Re: Ann Druffell's 'Firestorm:...'

 >>>Greetings Richard and List

 >>>Can someone tell me when this will be available for sale, and
 >>>where someone like myself can obtain a copy (as well as price
 >>>etc)

 >>Murray-

 >>This book, which is highly praised by many, is not yet
 >>available, but you
 >>can pre-order it at Amazon.com.  [snip -LH]

 >Hello Steve:

 >I'm a bit dim at the moment [burp!] so forgive me.

 >If the book is unavailable for now, how did it get such high
 >praise? I'm sure the praise will be well merited once the book
 >actually comes out, its just the sequence of events that
 >confuses me.

 >Were pre-prints sent out?


Larry,

I reviewed it from galley proofs which is a common procedure,
and Stan probably did the same.

-Dick







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                              Edwards AFB 1965

From: Joachim Koch <koch@kochkyborg.de>
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 17:35:55 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 22:12:14 -0400
Subject: Edwards AFB 1965


Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 17:27:00 GMT
From: lists@kochkyborg.de <Joachim Koch>
To: UFO UpDates - Toronto
<ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Subject: Edwards AFB 1965

Hello List,

While dealing with the Incident at Edwards AFB on October 7,
1965, I am wondering about the ranking of this encounter among
the UFO community.

Isn't it proof that ET was/is visiting us?

I have updated my website regarding this incident. Once you have
entered it, please click on 'News'.

Joachim Koch



-----------------------------------
More Info: http://www.kochkyborg.de
-----------------------------------








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                 Re: Ann Druffell's 'Firestorm:...' - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 11:50:38 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 22:15:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Ann Druffell's 'Firestorm:...' - Hatch


 >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 22:00:34 +0000
 >Subject: Re: Ann Druffell's 'Firestorm:...'

 >>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 05:59:24 -0700
 >>Subject: Re: Ann Druffell's 'Firestorm:...'

 >>>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
 >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 08:17:34 -0400
 >>>Subject: Re: Ann Druffell's 'Firestorm:...'


 >>Hello Steve:

 >>I'm a bit dim at the moment [burp!] so forgive me.

 >>If the book is unavailable for now, how did it get such high
 >>praise? I'm sure the praise will be well merited once the book
 >>actually comes out, its just the sequence of events that
 >>confuses me.

 >>Were pre-prints sent out?

 >I reviewed it from galley proofs which is a common procedure,
 >and Stan probably did the same.


Hi Dick:

That explains everything, thanks.

- Larry






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                Re: Ann Druffell's 'Firestorm:...' - Rubtsov

From: Vladimir Rubtsov <tolimak@mail.ru>
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 00:46:21 +0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 22:20:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Ann Druffell's 'Firestorm:...' - Rubtsov


Dear Listers,

I am new to the List (even though not so much to ufology -
  please see some info at:

http://www.geocities.com/riap777/vr.html

- and it is for the last two months or so that I have been
following the discussions on the List with attention they do
deserve. In particular, the information about the new book by
Ann Druffel about Dr. James McDonald is of much interest to me.
One little-known detail from the life of this really outstanding
scientist is the influence he exercised on the development of
ufological studies in the former USSR in the 1960s.

In those years, Arkadiy Tikhonov, an engineer and friend of
Alexander Kazantsev's kept up a correspondence with Western
ufologists on behalf of a small group of first Soviet
ufologists. He communicated with James McDonald as well - and,
as he himself told me a few years later, it was Dr. McDonald's
approach to the UFO problem that persuaded him of the true scope
and importance of this problem.

After the tragic death of James McDonald, Arkadiy Tikhonov
gathered all their correspondence in a single file and gave it
from time to time (in original - since no Xerox copiers were
then permitted in this country) for reading to those persons who
displayed interest to the UFO problem. And the reaction was
always fully favorable and even enthusiastic.

Unfortunately, I do not know the further lot of this file - nor
the lot of the whole Tikhonov's archives - but it would hardly
be an exaggeration to say that James McDonald's ideas and mode
of thinking have definitely manifested themselves in the best
traits of early Russian ufology.

Sincerely,

Vladimir Rubtsov, Ph.D.
Director
Research Institute on Anomalous Phenomena
http://www.geocities.com/riap777/







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                       1965 North Atlantic Radar Case?

From: Ole Henningsen <oleh@post1.tele.dk>
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 00:48:18 +0200
Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 22:28:02 -0400
Subject: 1965 North Atlantic Radar Case?



Hello friends,

I have heard about a possible radar-case in The North Atlantic
area in 1965.

Do you in your various files have any references to a possible
radar case during 1965 involving radars at Buchan (Scotland?),
Faroe Islands, Keflavik (Iceland) connected with scrambling of
jetfighters in UK? I have no exact date and only very few
details.

I would be very pleased receive any information about such a
case or any suggestions where to look for further information.
Best regards,


Ole Henningsen
SUFOI
Denmark







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                          Secrecy News -- 04/14/03

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 10:53:00 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 16:33:35 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 04/14/03


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2003, Issue No. 32
April 14, 2003


**   DOE TO REISSUE UNALTERED POLYGRAPH REGS
**   CIA VIEWS NORTH KOREAN NUKES
**   DOJ VIEWS THE NEW EXECUTIVE ORDER
**   ADMIRING PHILIP MORRISON
**   SADDAM AND THE CIA


DOE TO REISSUE UNALTERED POLYGRAPH REGS

In a remarkable testament to the stubbornness of the security
bureaucracy and its resistance to external criticism, the
Department of Energy is proposing to reissue the identical
regulations governing polygraph testing that Congress told it to
repeal two years ago, despite a withering independent critique
from the National Academy of Sciences.

In a Federal Register notice today, DOE argued that although the
congressional repeal "would eliminate the existing authority
which underlies DOE's counterintelligence polygraph
regulations... [it] would not preclude the retention of some or
all of those regulations through this rule-making...."  So
retaining "all of those regulations" is what DOE will do.

Congress had instructed DOE to reevaluate its polygraph policies
based on the findings of a polygraph study conducted by the
National Academy of Sciences (NAS).  That study, completed last
year, was harshly critical of polygraph testing as a tool for
screening of employees and found that it will generate "either a
large number of false positives or a large number of false
negatives."

DOE did not dispute this, but observed in faint praise of the
polygraph that it is not wrong 100% of the time.  In some cases,
it actually "will identify true positives who are being
deceptive."

"Accordingly, DOE does not believe that the issues that the NAS
has raised about the polygraph's accuracy are sufficient to
warrant a decision by DOE to abandon it as a screening tool,"
the Federal Register notice explained.

"While fully respecting the questions the NAS has raised about
the use of polygraphs as a screening tool, DOE does not believe
it can endorse the NAS's conclusion that the tool should be laid
down."

DOE invited public comment on its proposal to retain its
polygraph regulations in unaltered form.  See this April 14
Federal Register notice:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/polygraph/fr041403.html


CIA VIEWS NORTH KOREAN NUKES

The Central Intelligence Agency last week released its latest
unclassified report on foreign countries' acquisition of
technology relating to weapons of mass destruction.  The new
report, however, has some notable omissions.

Oddly, it is silent on North Korea's plutonium program even
though the Agency has previously assessed that "the North has
one or possibly two weapons using plutonium it produced prior to
1992."

A copy of the new CIA report is posted here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/threat/bian_apr_2003.htm

An independent assessment entitled "The United States, North
Korea, and the End of the Agreed Framework" by Jonathan D.
Pollack, to be published in the Summer 2003 Naval War College
Review, may be found here:

http://www.nwc.navy.mil/press/Review/2003/Summer/art1-adv-
su3.htm


DOJ VIEWS THE NEW EXECUTIVE ORDER

The Justice Department Office of Information and Privacy
provided its take on the new executive order on classification
policy in "Executive Order on National Security Classification
Amended," April 11:

http://www.usdoj.gov/oip/foiapost/2003foiapost14.htm


ADMIRING PHILIP MORRISON

For over half a century, physicist Philip Morrison has been one
of the preeminent figures in the parallel worlds of theoretical
physics, nuclear arms control and science education.  He was a
Manhattan Project physicist and a co-founder of the Federation
of American Scientists.

At a March 12 symposium, FAS and the Massachusetts Institute of
Technology Physics Department jointly awarded him the Hans Bethe
Science in Public Service Award.  See "Research publication
limits won't hinder bioterror, speakers say," MIT Tech Talk,
March 19:

http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/tt/2003/mar19/biomed.html

Morrison was profiled lately in "A Man Who Thinks Otherwise" by
Richard Monastersky, Chronicle of Higher Education, April 11:

http://chronicle.com/free/v49/i31/31a05601.htm


SADDAM AND THE CIA

One of many lacunae in the history of cold war intelligence and
of Iraq in particular is the role of the Central Intelligence
Agency in advancing the career of one Saddam Hussein.

"While many have thought that Saddam first became involved with
U.S. intelligence agencies at the start of the September 1980
Iran-Iraq war, his first contacts with U.S. officials date back
to 1959, when he was part of a CIA-authorized six-man squad
tasked with assassinating then Iraqi Prime Minister Gen. Abd al-
Karim Qasim," reports Richard Sale of United Press
International.  "U.S. intelligence services ... used him as
their instrument for more than 40 years."

See "Saddam key in early CIA plot," April 10:

http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID030410-070214-6557r

The CIA would not comment on the matter.


_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood@fas.org
voice:  (202) 454-4691





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                     Re: 965 North Atlantic Radar Case?

From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 10:24:01 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 16:35:04 -0400
Subject: Re: 965 North Atlantic Radar Case?


 >From: Ole Henningsen <oleh@post1.tele.dk>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 00:48:18 +0200
 >Subject: 1965 North Atlantic Radar Case?

 >Hello friends,

 >I have heard about a possible radar-case in The North Atlantic
 >area in 1965.

 >Do you in your various files have any references to a possible
 >radar case during 1965 involving radars at Buchan (Scotland?),
 >Faroe Islands, Keflavik (Iceland) connected with scrambling of
 >jetfighters in UK? I have no exact date and only very few
 >details.

 >I would be very pleased receive any information about such a
 >case or any suggestions where to look for further information.
 >Best regards,


Do a google search on the keywords - radar Scotland UFO 1965 -
There are numerous references to that sighting.

Terry







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                         Problem With EBE-ET Website

From: Thiago Luiz Ticchetti <thiagolt@opengate.com.br>
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 13:14:16 -0300
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 16:37:57 -0400
Subject: Problem With EBE-ET Website


Good day list,

Unfortunally my house was burgled and I lost my computer with
all my data. My Inetrnet company had trouble and lost some data
of some sites... including the EBE-ET. So I can not upload, but
we are trying to recover our information and already creating
another site.

We would like to apologise.

Thank you very much


--
Thiago Luiz Ticchetti
Vice-presidente da EBE-ET/RAB
Brasilia/DF
Brasil







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                              UFO Duck Hunting!

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 13:49:26 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 16:39:29 -0400
Subject: UFO Duck Hunting!


List,

Perhaps you know the saying "If it looks like a duck..."

Well, in that context, a friend of mine and I recently looked at
alleged UFO images on the Rense.com site, and on looking closely
at twelve boxed images (scroll down the page) under the heading
that says Amorphous Craft (taken by Anthony Woods), we noticed
something very interesting!

Please have a careful look at what Woods labels as his
"amorphous craft", about the middle of the page at:

http://www.rense.com/general31/woods1A.htm

Once you've scrolled down to the twelve images (enlargements
from video), please take a 'gander', as the saying goes - Sorry,
I couldn't resist! - at some of those images.

Now, tell me that it's not a slightly disfocused duck decoy,
rotating around in the air, possibly suspended by thin line
from, say, a balloon, higher above!

My friend commented, "I used to do a lot of duck hunting and I'd
have to say that thing is suspiciously like the typical molded
plastic decoy we used. It has a long rectangular [Look at the
lighter rectangle or diamond visible in some of the views.]
weighted part on the bottom to hold it upright in the water."

Anyway, my friend and I compared what you see to a photo of a
male "redhead duck" decoy.  The Woods video might show some
other type duck decoy, but a ruddy brown tint resembling that of
the red head duck's head is visible in the bottom right image of
his 12 close-up frames, on what seems to be the decoy's (?)
head.

All of which makes my friend and me wonder whether someone is
trying to demonstrate that UFO researchers are all a bunch of
wide-eyed 'quacks', and trying to 'goose' us for all we're
worth!  :)

If you still don't get the picture and insist on believing
that's a video of a bona fide UFO, please don't shoot the
messenger.  Shoot the 'duck', err, DECOY (?) instead!

Well, might my friend and I be onto something 'just ducky', or
is it that he and I are all-too-willing to believe three
impossible things before breakfast?  :)


Ray Stanford








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   Apr > Apr 14

             Argentina: Mutilated Animals Found Near Cuchillo Co

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 13:46:53 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 16:42:46 -0400
Subject: Argentina: Mutilated Animals Found Near Cuchillo Co


INEXPLICATA
The Journal of Hispanic Ufology
April 14, 2003




SOURCE: El Diario de la Pampa
DATE: April 13, 2003

CONCERN GROWS AMONG RANCHERS: Mutilated Animals Found Near
Cuchillo Co


Concern spread among some Pampan cattlemen of the Lihuel Calel
department, who expressed their fear at the discovery of several
repeated animal mutilations in their rural area.

GENERAL ACHA (Agencia) -- Cattlemen from a broad section of the
Lihuel Calel department are concerned by the return of cattle
mutilations. In an interview with El Diario, a young rancher
whose property is located on Provincial Route 13, 60 km west of
Cuchillo Co, and who requested anonymity, remarked that two
mutilated cows and a calf were found on his property last year,
being similar to the ones which achieved prominence in this and
other provinces in 2002. The cattleman noted that there also
occurred a case involving the mutilation of a wild boar cub.

Worried by the situation, he stated: "it seems that they've
taken against me now, because in 15 days they mutilated six
calves, all of them black, plump, weighing between 160 and 220
kg., which were in an open field. The last one was found last
Thursday some 500 meters from the street and some 4 kilometers
from the house, while I was away in General Acha. The same
occurred on Friday with a sheep," he added.

When consulted about the condition in which the animals are
found, and the type of mutilation presented, he explained that
"some were male and others female, but similar incisions can be
found in all of them -- perfectly [even] and cured, as though
cauterized. They were missing their tongues, jaws, ears, eyes
and hide in a stretch from the front (sic) to the start of the
chest. The females were missing their udders and the males their
testicles." He later noted that "I turned one of these over to
remove its ribs, but one of them, which was under the body, was
cracked and was "mashed", as though it had experienced a
powerful blow."

"I removed two ribs for the dogs, which eat it, but since it was
hanging from a hook in the shed, [it emanated] a strong odor of
ammonia and sulfur which became unbearable." He explained that
his remaining animals grazed far from the mutilated one.

Upon discussing the hypotheses put forth by the local livestock
producers, he stated that "some cattlemen do not believe that
natural deaths are involved, nor mutilations by carrion animals
and much less by the long-muzzled mouse. This is a subject that
deserves far deeper study to put an end to it, as it affects us
financially. Scientists from a foreign power could be involved,
performing the mutilations for analysis. We base this on the
fact that some "lights" have been seen over the area during the
night."

Finally, he recalled that "a rancher from the area found that
cow belonging to another pasture had been deposited on his
property. For this reason we request whoever is responsible to
look into these events and research them thoroughly."

=====================================
Translation (C) 2003. Scott Corrales
Institute of Hispanic Ufology
Special thanks to Gloria Coluchi








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   Apr > Apr 14

                 Re: 1965 North Atlantic Radar Case? - Pope

From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 19:19:49 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 16:44:33 -0400
Subject: Re: 1965 North Atlantic Radar Case? - Pope


 >From: Ole Henningsen <oleh@post1.tele.dk>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 00:48:18 +0200
 >Subject: 1965 North Atlantic Radar Case?

 >Hello friends,

 >I have heard about a possible radar-case in The North Atlantic
 >area in 1965.

 >Do you in your various files have any references to a possible
 >radar case during 1965 involving radars at Buchan (Scotland?),
 >Faroe Islands, Keflavik (Iceland) connected with scrambling of
 >jetfighters in UK? I have no exact date and only very few
 >details.

 >I would be very pleased receive any information about such a
 >case or any suggestions where to look for further information.
 >Best regards,

 >Ole Henningsen
 >SUFOI
 >Denmark

Ole and List,

If a written report on this alleged incident was generated and
sent to the Ministry of Defence, it should be in one of two files
open for viewing at the Public Record Office in Kew. The
references are AIR 2/17527 and AIR 2/17982. But I don't
recall having seen reference to any such incident in these files.


Best wishes,

Nick Pope







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   Apr > Apr 14

                        Re: Edwards AFB 1965 - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 11:22:37 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 16:45:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Edwards AFB 1965 - Hatch


 >From: Joachim Koch <koch@kochkyborg.de>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 17:35:55 +0100
 >Subject: Edwards AFB 1965

 >Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 17:27:00 GMT
 >From: lists@kochkyborg.de <Joachim Koch>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto
 ><ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Subject: Edwards AFB 1965

 >Hello List,

 >While dealing with the Incident at Edwards AFB on October 7,
 >1965, I am wondering about the ranking of this encounter among
 >the UFO community.

 >Isn't it proof that ET was/is visiting us?

 >I have updated my website regarding this incident. Once you have
 >entered it, please click on 'News'.

 >Joachim Koch

 >-----------------------------------
 >More Info: http://www.kochkyborg.de
 >-----------------------------------


Hello Joachim:

Somehow that event fell off my radar screen.

Are you referring to this matter?

http://www.nicap.dabsol.co.uk/ufoproof.htm

Thanks

- Larry Hatch







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                 Re: Ann Druffell's 'Firestorm:...' - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 15:01:29 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 16:47:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Ann Druffell's 'Firestorm:...' - Velez


 >From: Vladimir Rubtsov <tolimak@mail.ru>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 00:46:21 +0400
 >Subject: Re: Ann Druffell's 'Firestorm:...'

 >Dear Listers,

 >I am new to the List (even though not so much to ufology -
 >please see some info at:

 >http://www.geocities.com/riap777/vr.html

 >- and it is for the last two months or so that I have been
 >following the discussions on the List with attention they do
 >deserve. In particular, the information about the new book by
 >Ann Druffel about Dr. James McDonald is of much interest to me.
 >One little-known detail from the life of this really outstanding
 >scientist is the influence he exercised on the development of
 >ufological studies in the former USSR in the 1960s.

 >In those years, Arkadiy Tikhonov, an engineer and friend of
 >Alexander Kazantsev's kept up a correspondence with Western
 >ufologists on behalf of a small group of first Soviet
 >ufologists. He communicated with James McDonald as well - and,
 >as he himself told me a few years later, it was Dr. McDonald's
 >approach to the UFO problem that persuaded him of the true scope
 >and importance of this problem.

 >After the tragic death of James McDonald, Arkadiy Tikhonov
 >gathered all their correspondence in a single file and gave it
 >from time to time (in original - since no Xerox copiers were
 >then permitted in this country) for reading to those persons who
 >displayed interest to the UFO problem. And the reaction was
 >always fully favorable and even enthusiastic.

 >Unfortunately, I do not know the further lot of this file - nor
 >the lot of the whole Tikhonov's archives - but it would hardly
 >be an exaggeration to say that James McDonald's ideas and mode
 >of thinking have definitely manifested themselves in the best
 >traits of early Russian ufology.


Hello Vladimir,

When I visited your website I noticed that Eddie Bullard is a
member of your 'advisory' staff. I would like to ask if there is
any active UFO/alien/abduction related research being conducted
by members of your group? I would be very interested in
comparing notes. I am wondering how many differences or
similarities may exist between Russian and American reports of
UFO abduction.

You are welcome to 'check me out' with the moderator of this
List. I worked closely with Budd Hopkins for five years and I
created and maintain the 'Abduction Information Center' online.
I would like to be able to communicate and share information
with a Russian counterpart if at all possible. Visit A.I.C. at:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/aic/default.html

Welcome to the List.

Regards,

John Velez, Webmaster: Abduction Information Center






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   Apr > Apr 14

                      Hickson Recounts His Book On UFO

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 16:59:56 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 16:59:56 -0400
Subject: Hickson Recounts His Book On UFO



Source: The Sun Herald - Gulfport, Mississippi

http://www.sunherald.com/mld/sunherald/news/local/5590328.htm

Posted on Wed, Apr. 09, 2003

Author Recounts His Book On UFO
By Gary Holland
The Sun Herald


GAUTIER - Charles Hickson, who made international news with an
account of his encounter with robots and an unidentified flying
object, recalled the Oct. 11, 1973, incident at a book signing
Tuesday night.

"I have a gut feeling that it won't be many more years until
everyone is going to understand there are other worlds out there
with life, and I'll be glad when that time comes," he said at
the Gautier Library before meeting a roomful of UFO enthusiasts.

Hickson, 72, a Gautier construction contractor, wrote his book,
"UFO Contact at Pascagoula," in the 1980s and makes appearances
to talk about it.

He doesn't fear the aliens.

"If they come, we shouldn't attack them, thinking they mean
harm," he said. "It wouldn't do any good. They could destroy us
and this world if they want to."

Hickson's book recalls the afternoon when he and his fishing
partner, Calvin Parker Jr., left work at Walker Shipyard and
were fishing in the Pascagoula River just south of the U.S. 90
drawbridge. In the account of his encounter, a craft hovered
over the bank and three robot-like creatures took them aboard
and scanned them with an eye-like instrument, let them go and
flew away.

"I don't know anything else to tell you," he said. "That's what
happened almost 30 years ago."

He said he had a couple of occasions where he again saw space
crafts and through communications, which he doesn't explain,
they let him know they would stay in contact.

"I still hear and see things but I don't talk about it. There is
no reason to talk," he said.

Hickson thinks the aliens are closer than any distant galaxy. He
agrees with psychic Jeane Dixon, who talked with him about his
experience, that they came from a small planet just past
Jupiter.

"They are a lot further advanced scientifically than we are," he
said. "They could come here for a purpose, possibly to help us.
I believe they were concerned about a threat of an atomic war
between Russia and the United States that could cause a nuclear
reaction that would affect them. The Cold War is over, but there
is still the Middle East and North Korea."

Hickson said he is a Christian.

"I believe there is a God, not only the creator of this world
but the creator of all of those out there."






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   Apr > Apr 14

                Article: Bob Rickard, Editor Of Fortean Times

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 17:08:54 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 17:08:54 -0400
Subject: Article: Bob Rickard, Editor Of Fortean Times



Source: The Daily Record - Glasgow, Scotland

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/features/featuresfeed/page.cfm?objectid=12838939&me
thod=full&siteid=89488

THE GUEST SLOT

Apr 12 2003

Bob Rickard, Founding Editor Of The Fortean Times

WHERE else, this weekend, can you get the low-down on decadent
saints, Buffy's battle against the Undead, sea serpents, a WW2
death-ray, Bigfoot, the JFK assassination, the infamous "alien
autopsy" movie and the world's greatest hoaxes?

It must be this year's UnConvention, hosted by Fortean Times
magazine at London's Commonwealth Institute in Kensington.

I founded Fortean Times in 1973 as a fanzine for circulating
stories and discussion of strange phenomena.

And over the last 30 years, the magazine has matured into the
world's only professional, regular review of weirdness, with
nearly 30,000 sales a month.

The secret of Fortean Times' persistence and what distinguishes
it from the many rivals it has seen off is its refreshing mix of
curiosity and lack of pomposity.

While dedicated to good standards of investigation and writing,
it is full of surrealistic conjunctions, humour, strange
excitements, obscure knowledge and, yes, common sense. It has
managed to become the voice of sensible inquiry into the unknown
without losing its sense of mystery and wonder.

We don't call ourselves experts, because there can be no expert
in what is Unknown.

Where rival magazines have been too sceptical, or too credulous,
FT has kept to a middle path of intelligent inquiry, seeking
ever better data, informed by our sound knowledge of the subject
matter and a healthy sense of irony and dark humour.

"We see humour and compassion as antidotes to fear of the
Unknown," says Paul Sieveking, my co-editor for nearly two
decades. "The balance we bring to the debate," adds David
Sutton, the current editor, "has won us a hugely loyal and
stable readership in a time when magazine sales are declining
generally."

We are particularly proud of being among the very first to
comment on such subjects as crop circles, social panics such as
the "satanic ritual abuse" and "phantom social worker" scares,
"psychic" spoon-bending, sea monsters off the British coast and
showers of frogs and ice - among many other subjects. When
numbers of little fish fell on several locations in east London
in 1983, I obtained specimens for identification at the Natural
History Museum and sought a rational explanation.

The best the meteorologists could come up with was that a flight
of herons was hit by synchronised vomiting over Canning Town.

FT was also the first to collate the many sightings of Alien Big
Cats (ABCs) that have been sighted every year since the famous
"Surrey Puma" of 1962.

Paul edits an annual round-up of sightings and points to their
diversity - besides cougars, lynxes and wild boars, lions,
panthers and bears have been spotted. Such events are balanced
by the absurd - in Nottingham a large paper bag fluttering in a
hedge was mistaken for a lion and in New Mexico a spontaneous
"face of Christ" on the side of a church was found to be a
poster for a Willie Nelson concert with a layer of whitewash
over it.

Given our huge fan base, we staged our first UnConvention in
1994 at the University of London and kicked off with a fine
debate on "spontaneous human combustion". Since then, the event
has been held every year (except 2001) at various venues in
London, settling on Kensington's Commonwealth Institute. This
weekend it will host the finals of the Paranormal Olympics (a
series of spoon-bending, scales-tipping and card-guessing tests
organised by ASSAP - the Association for the Scientific Study of
Anomalous Phenomena).

There are many specialist conventions throughout the year,
devoted to single-issue topics such as science fiction, cult TV,
UFOs, crop circles, vampires and psychical research while many
other paranormal topics are not catered for.

UnConvention brings all these fringe subjects together in
celebration of open-minded curiosity.

 From alien abductions and lost civilisations to conspiracies and
life- after-death, UnConvention has something for everyone,
believers and doubters alike.

There is nothing quite like it. Anywhere.

Details about UnConvention can be found at
www.unconvention2003.com


[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]






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   Apr > Apr 14

                        Re: UFO Duck Hunting! - King

From: Tom King <tomking2030@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 20:54:54 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 17:14:25 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Duck Hunting! - King


 >From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 13:49:26 -0400
 >Subject: UFO Duck Hunting!


 >Perhaps you know the saying "If it looks like a duck..."

 >Well, in that context, a friend of mine and I recently looked at
 >alleged UFO images on the Rense.com site, and on looking closely
 >at twelve boxed images (scroll down the page) under the heading
 >that says Amorphous Craft (taken by Anthony Woods), we noticed
 >something very interesting!

 >Please have a careful look at what Woods labels as his
 >"amorphous craft", about the middle of the page at:

 >http://www.rense.com/general31/woods1A.htm

I haven't seen any video from Woods but from looking at the
frame grabs on that page I would bet most are just balloons. The
"Amorphous Craft" usually turns out to be 4+ balloons tied
together and revolving around each other. It gives you the
appearance of a multi colored blob in the sky.

The problem is most cameras can't identify exactly what the
object is unless its very close. If the person would use a 2-5x
zoom lense they would seen 99% of this type of footage turns out
to be balloons and mylars.

 >Once you've scrolled down to the twelve images (enlargements
 >from video), please take a 'gander', as the saying goes - Sorry,
 >I couldn't resist! - at some of those images.

 >Now, tell me that it's not a slightly disfocused duck decoy,
 >rotating around in the air, possibly suspended by thin line
 >from, say, a balloon, higher above!
 >
 >My friend commented, "I used to do a lot of duck hunting and I'd
 >have to say that thing is suspiciously like the typical molded
 >plastic decoy we used. It has a long rectangular [Look at the
 >lighter rectangle or diamond visible in some of the views.]
 >weighted part on the bottom to hold it upright in the water."

 >Anyway, my friend and I compared what you see to a photo of a
 >male "redhead duck" decoy.  The Woods video might show some
 >other type duck decoy, but a ruddy brown tint resembling that of
 >the red head duck's head is visible in the bottom right image of
 >his 12 close-up frames, on what seems to be the decoy's (?)
 >head.

 >All of which makes my friend and me wonder whether someone is
 >trying to demonstrate that UFO researchers are all a bunch of
 >wide-eyed 'quacks', and trying to 'goose' us for all we're
 >worth!  :)


That was one of the excuses Mike Hawkins gave out when he was
busted for hoaxing UFOs. He would mix in authentic videos with
hoaxed ones to muddy the waters. He claimed it was to pullg the
rug out from under MUFON but it was really about making a quick
buck off mail-order and UFO conventions.


Tom







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                      Houston, British Columbia - 04-14

From: Brian Vike <hbccufo@telus.net>
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 18:27:47 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 06:41:10 -0400
Subject: Houston, British Columbia - 04-14


Hi List

Been a while since I was around on the list. Reports are still
coming into me here in northern B.C. and I'm working on many of
them. I will be making arrangements to meet with a good number
of witnesses soon, to discuss some of the reports they have
sent, and I have posted on my site in the British Columbia 2003
UFO reports area.

I also for the ones who may have not heard, have an "excellent"
case I am working on. A "possible" abduction case here in
Canada, back east. I have samples of clothing in which have been
sent off to be tested in Vancouver, B.C. I also received 95
pages of documentation for this case. Now I am not one to jump
into a case of this type. "But" I can't pass it up. Just so much
information I figured I would look into it. Plus I have a
colleague in Ontario who has agreed to also look into it. There
has been some other things also which has taken place here which
are very strange, and I will report on this as I gather the
information.


Houston, British Columbia

Date: April 11, 2003
Time: 8:00 p.m.
4 Witnesses:
Very creditable witnesses:

A fellow stopped me while I was heading out the door of our
local grocery store here in Houston, B.C. today (April 14,
2003). He said to me that he had his first UFO sighting the
other night. There were four witnesses to this sighting. On
April 11, 2003 at 8:00 p.m., which was a Friday evening 4
witnesses were just west of Houston in an area called the
Houston Estates. There are a number of homes in the area. One of
the witnesses saw something funny and told everyone else to
look.

Looking south towards the Morice River, from the Houston Estates
they noticed the strangest set of lights. It was very low in
altitude, and sitting above the Morice Valley Road. I was told
the only  thing which could be seen on it were the three colored
lights. The witness said it was as if the object was rotating,
as the lights kept changing position. The color of the lights
were, yellow, blue and red. The strange thing about this
sighting is that I was told that the object was witnessed for
approx: 10 minutes. Also if one would picture someone making a
drawing of a Christmas Tree, (just a simple sketch) this would
have been how this object moved. So starting say from the top of
a tree, it zipped down and out to it's left, then moved quickly
straight back in. ( say  towards the trunk of the tree). Then
dropped a bit and continued doing this until in was noted to
have dropped a good distance in height. He told me whatever it
was moved extremely fast, then would come to a complete stop.
Then once again continuing to move at a high rate of speed
making the same maneuvers over and over again. The object would
have been approx: 2 miles away from the peoples location.
Binoculars were brought out so they could get a better look at
it,  I was told all that could be seen was the lights, no shape
or body to the object. The object/lights vanished instantly
after the 10 minutes of viewing.

Anyway how, this is a raw report and I am in the works of
contacting the other three witnesses to gather more information
on this sighting.


Take care,

Brian
HBCC UFO Research








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                       Re: UFO Duck Hunting! - Yturria

From: Santiago Yturria <syturria@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 22:52:04 EDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 06:45:05 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Duck Hunting! - Yturria


Dear Mr. Stanford,

I was reading your comments about the Sept. 8, 2001 UFO footage
taped by Anthony Woods in Bedhampton, England. First of all
thank you for your interest in this report and I noticed that
this particular footage attracted your attention. Since I made
an extensive research for more than a year on the Anthony Woods
case  and the Bedhampton UFO activity I'm in the position to
reply your message with some comments of mine.

The Sept. 8, 2001 UFO footage is indeed a unique video because
of the nature and the characteristics of the object witnessed by
Anthony and also his wife Samantha. This video was the first
that I reviewed when I became involved in this investigation in
Sept. 2001 and I think Linda Moulton Howe also reviewed this
video before me. The images published in the Rense site are jpgs
from the video and don't present the behavior of this object in
movement. Seeing the images is very easy to be confused by
certain shapes displayed bt the object during it's rotating
movements. I agree on this and concede the benefit of the doubt.

I myself found similarities with certain known objects like a
hat, a beret and yes a kind of duck. But this as result of a
definition of the object itself for the research purposes. Of
course I was able to review the complete footage that is about
three minutes long and I had all the elements for the evaluation
supplied by the same Anthony Woods. Unfortunately the footage is
not published in the Rense website and therefore this essential
element is not available for a proper analysis and evaluation.
However I 'm at your disposal to send you the footage to your
email address if you want to so you can proceed and make your
own analysis and evaluation. Just let let me know if you agree
and I can send you the video clips ( the footage is long so I
have to split it in segments for email) in MPEG, DivX or ASF
formats you choose. And also a VHS copy if desired.

What I found in this particular video during my research is a
good piece of footage meaning that it was videotaped at daylight
with cloudy sky and this object was contrasted by these
conditions. The object was black with an undefined shape. I know
that this sound strange but once you see the footage yourself
will know what I mean. The movement of the dark object is very
interesting because it was continously rotating like spinning
over it's axe, it never stood still. Anthony Woods made a good
tape zooming in and out giving the needed references of distance
and speed. The object was noisless. The audio portion of the
footage is also interesting because it captured the spontaneity
of the moment denoting the surprise of Anthony and then he calls
his wife Samantha to witness also the strange dark object.

I made a computer analysis of the footage from a first
generation VHS copy from the camcorder supplied to me by Anthony.
All the frames were enhanced with an AVID PRO equipment and
proccesed with several digital filters and we discovered that
the object itself was changing shapes while rotating and through
a digital slow motion sequence we confirmed this insolit feature
and that's when I told Anthony: We have a polymorphic UFO. He
later named this object also the amorphous object.

To review and analyze this footage is absolutely necesary to
make a proper evaluation. The .jpgs images may fool more than one
because of the weird shape displayed as I explained. But once
you study carefully the video you will not see wings diplayed
anytime by the object discarding the duck theory unless this is
a mighty duck that don't need wings to fly (or maybe an
extraterrestial duck). Of course seeing the images when zooming
out you will see the great distance among the object and the
videocamera as well as the altitud discarding also the
posibility of a kind of balloon as suggested.

This was certainly a weird shaped object that also took me by
surprise and I have not find any similar object in my archive. I
still have not an explanation to the posible origin or
whereabouts of this dark object and I belive it's a UFO. Of
course there's always the posibility of a military experiment or
prototype of some kind but I don't think this is the case. I
accepted Anthony Woods testimonials and evidences and after
certain time of analysis I published a report of this particular
case in November 28, 2001 at Rense.com

After almost two years of research on the Anthony Woods case and
the Bedhampton UFO wave I have gathered a massive amount of
information and evidences and I'm convinced that this is a very
real phenomena happening down there, an amazing serial of events
still unexplained. I'll be at your disposal anytime.


My best regards,

Santiago Yturria
OVNI Investigaciones
MEXICO






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                        Re: UFO Duck Hunting! - McCoy

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@charter.net>
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 21:21:41 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 06:49:42 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Duck Hunting! - McCoy


 >From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 13:49:26 -0400
 >Subject: UFO Duck Hunting!

 >Perhaps you know the saying "If it looks like a duck..."

 >Well, in that context, a friend of mine and I recently looked at
 >alleged UFO images on the Rense.com site, and on looking closely
 >at twelve boxed images (scroll down the page) under the heading
 >that says Amorphous Craft (taken by Anthony Woods), we noticed
 >something very interesting!

 >Please have a careful look at what Woods labels as his
 >"amorphous craft", about the middle of the page at:

 >http://www.rense.com/general31/woods1A.htm

 >Once you've scrolled down to the twelve images (enlargements
 >from video), please take a 'gander', as the saying goes - Sorry,
 >I couldn't resist! - at some of those images.

 >Now, tell me that it's not a slightly disfocused duck decoy,
 >rotating around in the air, possibly suspended by thin line
 >from, say, a balloon, higher above!

<snip>


Hello, all, Ray.

That whole collection of pictures are dubious, but the decoy is
so obvious as one who has done more than a little duck hunting,
well, all I can say is a loud hearty Ouack!


GT McCoy








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                          Secrecy News -- 04/14/03

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 10:53:00 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 06:55:19 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 04/14/03


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2003, Issue No. 32
April 14, 2003


**   DOE TO REISSUE UNALTERED POLYGRAPH REGS
**   CIA VIEWS NORTH KOREAN NUKES
**   DOJ VIEWS THE NEW EXECUTIVE ORDER
**   ADMIRING PHILIP MORRISON
**   SADDAM AND THE CIA


DOE TO REISSUE UNALTERED POLYGRAPH REGS

In a remarkable testament to the stubbornness of the security
bureaucracy and its resistance to external criticism, the
Department of Energy is proposing to reissue the identical
regulations governing polygraph testing that Congress told it to
repeal two years ago, despite a withering independent critique
from the National Academy of Sciences.

In a Federal Register notice today, DOE argued that although the
congressional repeal "would eliminate the existing authority
which underlies DOE's counterintelligence polygraph
regulations... [it] would not preclude the retention of some or
all of those regulations through this rule-making...."  So
retaining "all of those regulations" is what DOE will do.

Congress had instructed DOE to reevaluate its polygraph policies
based on the findings of a polygraph study conducted by the
National Academy of Sciences (NAS).  That study, completed last
year, was harshly critical of polygraph testing as a tool for
screening of employees and found that it will generate "either a
large number of false positives or a large number of false
negatives."

DOE did not dispute this, but observed in faint praise of the
polygraph that it is not wrong 100% of the time.  In some cases,
it actually "will identify true positives who are being
deceptive."

"Accordingly, DOE does not believe that the issues that the NAS
has raised about the polygraph's accuracy are sufficient to
warrant a decision by DOE to abandon it as a screening tool,"
the Federal Register notice explained.

"While fully respecting the questions the NAS has raised about
the use of polygraphs as a screening tool, DOE does not believe
it can endorse the NAS's conclusion that the tool should be laid
down."

DOE invited public comment on its proposal to retain its
polygraph regulations in unaltered form.  See this April 14
Federal Register notice:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/polygraph/fr041403.html


CIA VIEWS NORTH KOREAN NUKES

The Central Intelligence Agency last week released its latest
unclassified report on foreign countries' acquisition of
technology relating to weapons of mass destruction.  The new
report, however, has some notable omissions.

Oddly, it is silent on North Korea's plutonium program even
though the Agency has previously assessed that "the North has
one or possibly two weapons using plutonium it produced prior to
1992."

A copy of the new CIA report is posted here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/threat/bian_apr_2003.htm

An independent assessment entitled "The United States, North
Korea, and the End of the Agreed Framework" by Jonathan D.
Pollack, to be published in the Summer 2003 Naval War College
Review, may be found here:

http://www.nwc.navy.mil/press/Review/2003/Summer/art1-adv-
su3.htm


DOJ VIEWS THE NEW EXECUTIVE ORDER

The Justice Department Office of Information and Privacy
provided its take on the new executive order on classification
policy in "Executive Order on National Security Classification
Amended," April 11:

http://www.usdoj.gov/oip/foiapost/2003foiapost14.htm


ADMIRING PHILIP MORRISON

For over half a century, physicist Philip Morrison has been one
of the preeminent figures in the parallel worlds of theoretical
physics, nuclear arms control and science education.  He was a
Manhattan Project physicist and a co-founder of the Federation
of American Scientists.

At a March 12 symposium, FAS and the Massachusetts Institute of
Technology Physics Department jointly awarded him the Hans Bethe
Science in Public Service Award.  See "Research publication
limits won't hinder bioterror, speakers say," MIT Tech Talk,
March 19:

http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/tt/2003/mar19/biomed.html

Morrison was profiled lately in "A Man Who Thinks Otherwise" by
Richard Monastersky, Chronicle of Higher Education, April 11:

http://chronicle.com/free/v49/i31/31a05601.htm


SADDAM AND THE CIA

One of many lacunae in the history of cold war intelligence and
of Iraq in particular is the role of the Central Intelligence
Agency in advancing the career of one Saddam Hussein.

"While many have thought that Saddam first became involved with
U.S. intelligence agencies at the start of the September 1980
Iran-Iraq war, his first contacts with U.S. officials date back
to 1959, when he was part of a CIA-authorized six-man squad
tasked with assassinating then Iraqi Prime Minister Gen. Abd al-
Karim Qasim," reports Richard Sale of United Press
International.  "U.S. intelligence services ... used him as
their instrument for more than 40 years."

See "Saddam key in early CIA plot," April 10:

http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=3D20030410-070214-6557r

The CIA would not comment on the matter.


_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a blank email message to
secrecy_news-remove@lists.fas.org

OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood@fas.org
voice:  (202) 454-4691

_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood@fas.org
voice:  (202) 454-4691






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               'Pentagram'-Borne Penetration Into UFO Coverup

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net>
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 05:13:19 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 06:59:21 -0400
Subject: 'Pentagram'-Borne Penetration Into UFO Coverup


"Overt UFO-coverup whistleblowers have to think at least twice
about their coming forward: (1) they must consider the moral
courage of their act as weighed against possible reprisal from
their past/current/future employer; (2) they must consider the
attack-the-messenger backlash awaiting them from a general
public fearful of, and hostile to, their message." -- Larry W.
Bryant (April 15, 2003)


Here's a follow-up on the status of my renewed "UFO-coverup-
whistleblower" ad campaign to solicit overt accounts and/or
"leaked" evidence from insiders knowledgeable of the Cosmic
Watergate: the commercial printer of the 'Pentagram' (a weekly
military newspaper serving the interests of Army personnel at
the Pentagon and elsewhere in the National Capital Region) has
scheduled the following classified advertisement for publication
in the edition of April 15, 2003:


      == Blow the Whistle on "Hostile Aerial Craft" ==

A brand-new UFO-coverup whistleblower has stepped forward to
relay his account of having witnessed some "smoking gun" telexes
during his security-guard duty in 1975 at the U. S. embassy in
Canberra, Australia. Emanating from the Tidbinbilla tracking
range, these electronic messages reported hostile interference
from UFOs with some of our supersecret military satellites. The
reports characterized the interlopers as "hostle aerial craft."
If you (or someone you know) have confirmatory evidence of those
reports, please contact Larry W. Bryant at 703-931-3341 (e-mail:
overtci@cavtel.net). Be assured that at least one congressional
committee would be interested in evaluating and correlating any
evidence you choose to share with us.


[LWB Note: If you readers know of other official UFO-coverup
cases whose exposure/resolution might benefit from this ad
campaign, I invite you to share a summary of them with me.]






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                         Tonight On SciFi - 04-15-03

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 10:16:56 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 10:16:56 -0400
Subject: Tonight On SciFi - 04-15-03



Source: SciFi.com

http://www.scifi.com/onair/specials/

Tuesday, April 15, from 8PM - 11PM ET/PT

8PM: UFO Chronicles - Investigative reports of contacts,
abductions, landings and sightings through testimony of
witnesses, photos and video

9PM: Alien Gods - Examination of alien cults, from Heaven's Gate
to the Raelians cloning group

10PM: The Secret - Disclosure of government files behind the
cover-up of UFO information [MJ-12]





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                       Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - King

From: Tom King <tomking2030@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 14:59:43 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 11:49:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - King


Jim D. of Village Labs has stated many times that the 10:00 pm
lights never moved or dropped.

Please go here and take a look for yourself.

http://www.ufovideo.com/march13/1000.php

I have stabilized the city lights from 3 different videos taken
on 3-13-97. You can see that these lights do drop downward in a
manner consistent with flares. They certainly don't rise up!

Maybe some of those people that wrote books about these
sightings can update their products and invest in some white
out.


Tom King
www.ufovideo.com






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                       Re: UFO Duck Hunting! - Hebert

From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 10:19:27 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 11:52:49 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Duck Hunting! - Hebert


 >From: Santiago Yturria <syturria@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 22:52:04 EDT
 >Subject: Re: UFO Duck Hunting!

<snip>

 >However I 'm at your disposal to send you the footage to your
 >email address if you want to so you can proceed and make your
 >own analysis and evaluation. Just let let me know if you agree
 >and I can send you the video clips ( the footage is long so I
 >have to split it in segments for email) in MPEG, DivX or ASF
 >formats you choose. And also a VHS copy if desired.

Dear Santiago:

I specialize in the comparison of images (video, stills,
photographs, etc.) of identified flying objects (IFO's) with
images of unidentified flying objects and would like very much
to review an unaltered copy of the footage in question. I will
compare images in the original footage to images in the IFO
Database:

http://www.ifo.s5.com

and other images and attempt, if possible, to re-create similar
images using photographic procedures as close as possible to
those used by Mr. Woods. (I also specialize in the comparison of
images of known military technologies to potential images of
UFO's.) I will send a copy of my final report to the UFO Update
list, to you, to Mr. Woods and to the Jeff Rense web site.

May I have a copy of the original footage (unaltered,
unenhanced, etc.) for my analysis? I would also need to know
what photographic equipment was used by Mr. Woods (brand of
camera, type), the exact camera settings used during filming and
basic details of the event (date, location, time, weather
conditions, compass directions, etc.). I will gladly reimburse
you for shipping and handling as well as the cost of the VHS
tape. In addition, I would like to study the unaltered MPEG
clips you have offered and will try to post them on temporary
web space for all to review if that would be OK with you and Mr.
Woods (if the file size is not too big).

Thank you for sharing the footage for further analysis and
evaluation and your devotion to the search for the truth.

Sincerely,

A. Hebert







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                      Re: UFO Duck Hunting! - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 13:38:39 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 18:26:43 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Duck Hunting! - Stanford


 >From: Santiago Yturria <syturria@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 22:52:04 EDT
 >Subject: Re: UFO Duck Hunting!

<snip>

 >...But once
 >you study carefully the video you will not see wings diplayed
 >anytime by the object discarding the duck theory unless this is
 >a mighty duck that don't need wings to fly (or maybe an
 >extraterrestial duck).

I think Santiago (due to language differences) has misunderstood
what I said.

The object appears to be a decoy (a fake, floating duck one puts
on water to attract other ducks). We are not saying he filmed a
real, live, wings-flapping duck. The seeming duck decoy appears
to be whirling suspended from a line, from perhaps a balloon far
above. Yes Santiago is correct, it is whirling or rotating,
precisely as one might expect of such a decoy suspended from a
line far beneath a balloon. One can see the seeming decoy wings
beside the seeming decoy body, in more than one of the images on
Rense.com.

Santiago, it is kind of you to offer to email me the segments of
this video which you have. I will (if you will) leave it Amy
Hebert to study and try to interpret what you can provider her
of what she asks (and she asks well) in her message of today
concerning this, as I am busy working on a series of papers in
paleoichnology (the study of ancient traces, being in my case
Early Cretaceous tracks and trackways), which is a 'far cry'
from UFOs and much more down to earth, in the very literal
sense. I look forward to seeing what Amy comes up with, and
appreciate her offering to get involved in this. Right now, I
just get involved on this list mainly to keep myself abreast of
what's going on and what's being said among my fellow UFO
researchers, and partly as a diversion to keep earth science
from causing my eyes to glaze over. :) That is to say, that I'd
rather be monitoring the skies with instruments and cameras,of
course.

Let me comment, though, that, as Amy surely knows, shape must be
analyzed by stills, not the vagaries imparted by perceived
motion as analyzed by viewing sequences of what are each still
'frames'. We must use the sharpest of still frames in shape
analysis.  We must not allow perceptual dazzlement to confuse
and distract us from the single frame images which are most
diagnostic in analysis of what shape was actually being video-
taped.

At risk of repetition: In analyzing a film or video, it is the
shapes shown on individual frames that must be examined for
understanding shape and in any analysis of whether the alleged
'morphing' is real or only perceived (as I suspect).

Let me affirm that I am very much aware of reports and films in
which allegedly unidentified objects appear to change (very
quickly or even instantaneously) their visible shape. But, at
this point, I see nothing in those frame enlargements on
Rense.com that demand such an interpretation. Furthermore, in
the reports and films that I consider as probably reliable, UFO
shape changes are quite geometric and not of an amorphous
nature, as Santiago interprets exist of the Woods video.

Santiago said:

 >I made a computer analysis of the footage from a first
 >generation VHS copy from the camcorder supplied to me by Anthony.
 >All the frames were enhanced with an AVID PRO equipment and
 >proccesed with several digital filters...

Santiago, unless you have some awesomely sophisticated software
(If so, please define it), you did not make a computer analysis,
per se (as such). Bill Spaulding of Ground Saucer Watch used to
make that same claim of "computer analysis", but he really only
showed us electronically 'filtered' images while often adding
ridiculous statements falsely attributed to the computer. You
have been far kinder to us, sparing us any such claims while
evidently really meaning that you made an intellectual analysis
or interpretation based upon what you think you saw in video
frames and frame sequences to which various electronic filters
were applied.

So, Santiago, am I accurate in correcting your use of words?

But no matter what 'filters' one applies, basic shape will
remain the same. Let no one mistake electronic 'filtering' of a
pre-existing image as the equivalent of using actual optical
filters on the lens. They are NOT the same and do not really
achieve the same function.  Also, keep in mind that the images
we are seeing on Rense.com are clearly slightly out-of-focus,
meaning originally out-of-focus and not primarily a copying
effect. Thus, Santiago, unless what you can send Amy evidence
that Woods could not have been videoing a suspected duck decoy
off at a distance, I still declare:

If it looks like a duck and waddles (in this case spins around
in the air) like a suspended decoy, then it is probably a duck
decoy suspended far beneath a balloon on a string.  All
electronic filtering aside, at some point in our analysis of
what we see on a video or film, discrete common sense is, I
think, wisely allowed into our interpretation process.

Yet, if Amy feels she finds something in what Santiago sends her
that clearly mitigates against the decoy interpretation, I will
be happy to examine her interpretation as reported in this forum
or in other contexts as she provides.

Thanks, Santiago, for your very kind offer of images (video
sequences) to examine. Your kindness is appreciated, especially
in view of the fact that your leanings in this case seem to be
quite the opposite of my own.

And, Amy, thanks for grabbing the ball to run with it. I look
forward to watching your 'performance on the field'.

Now, back to much more earthy things, Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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                      Re: UFO Duck Hunting! - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 13:55:34 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 18:28:22 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Duck Hunting! - Stanford


 >From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@charter.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 21:21:41 -0700
 >Subject: Re: UFO Duck Hunting!

<snip>

 >...the decoy is so obvious [that] as one who has done more
 >than a little duck hunting, well, all I can say is a loud
hearty Ouack!

 >GT McCoy

That conclusion is 'just ducky', with me.

Ray Stanford

"You know my method.  It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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                       UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 16

From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 17:06:21 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 18:33:27 -0400
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 16


Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor.

<Masinaigan@aol.com>
==========================

    UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 8, Number 16
April 16, 2003
Editor: Joseph Trainor
E-Mail: Masinaigan@aol.com

http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/

GONE IN SIXTY SECONDS--
SADDAM FLED IRAQ IN
A CYLINDRICAL UFO?

    A missing U.S. Air Force F-15 fighter and cylindrical
UFOs spotted over Baghdad may provide clues to the puzzle
of Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein's strange disappearance.
    "Two U.S. airmen have been missing in Iraq since
their F-15E Strike Eagle crashed Sunday," April 6, 2003,
"U.S. Central Command said. The airmen, who are part of
the (USAF) 4th Fighter Wing at Seymour Johnson Air Force
Base in North Carolina went down about 7:30 p.m. Sunday.
Officials at Central Command are investigating the cause."
    But on Thursday, April 10, 2003, USA Today reported,
"Coalition rescue teams were searching for the crew of a
U.S. Air Force F-15E fighter jet that went down Monday
near Tikrit. The cause of the crash was unknown."
    As of this writing, neither the aircraft nor its crew
have been recovered by Allied coalition forces.
    Tikrit is Saddam's hometown and was the last Iraqi
city to fall. Saddam reportedly has a large underground
base at al-Ouja, 3 kilometers (2 miles) north of Tikrit,
which is where the F-15E was lost.
    Also, on Monday, Saddam was photographed taking a
stroll in Baghdad's al-Firdos Square, looking cheerful and
confident.
(Editor's Comment: I saw that photo and thought Saddam
looked almighty chipper for somebody who had half the U.S.
Marine Corps on his doorstep.)
    Video footage of Saddam and his sons, Uday and Qusay,
meeting with top officers of the Iraqi Republican Guard
was shot on Monday and aired on Iraqi TV on Wednesday,
April 9, 2003. This was the last time they were seen in
public.
    On Sunday, April 6, 2003, at about 1 a.m. Baghdad
time, five cylindrical UFOs were seen hovering over the
Khulfafa mosque in the Shebab district, on the east bank
of the Tigris River. The faintly luminous cylinders were
"caught by a fixed, night-vision camera" and aired live on
FOX (which would have been 4 p.m. Saturday, April 5, 2003
in the USA--J.T.)
    "My friend Hiba Rashid said there was a UFO sighting
in Shebab early Sunday morning, but she provided no
details," said Ayesha al-Khatabi, one of UFO Roundup's
Middle East correspondents. "I have not heard from her
since Baghdad was overrun by the Anglo-American coalition.
She lives in Arassat (a residential area on the south side
of Baghdad--J.T.). Her family was preparing to flee
across the Tigris to Karada (district) when last I heard
from her."
    On Monday, April 7, 2003, a USAF B-1 Lancer bomber
dropped four 2,000-pound JDAM bombs on a house in Mansur,
an upscale residential neighborhood in western Baghdad.
Saddam and his sons were seen entering the house just 12
minutes earlier. The house was utterly destroyed, and
nine civilians nearby were killed.
    "Multiple U.S. intelligence sources put Iraqi
President Saddam Hussein inside a Baghdad building before
it was leveled by American bombs, U.S. officials said
Wednesday."
    "Intelligence officials described the information
that led to Monday's strike as solid but did not provide
details. One source was believed to be an eyewitness who
watched Saddam go inside the building."
    "Britain's Guardian newspaper quoted an unidentified
intelligence source Wednesday as saying Saddam 'was
probably not in the building when it was bombed.' The
Times of London quoted an unidentified source who said,
'We think he left the same way he arrived in the area,
either by a tunnel system or by car.'"
    "Ahmad Chalabi, the once-exiled leader of the Iraqi
National Congress, told CNN television Wednesday that he
had heard from sources inside Iraq that Saddam and his two
sons survived the bombing and were in a town northeast of
Baghdad when the U.S. Marines arrived."
    This was the second "miraculous" escape by the Iraqi
dictator. Saddam survived a similar bombing during the
early morning hours of Thursday, March 20, 2003, when the
war began.
    By Wednesday morning, not only had Saddam and his
sons dropped out of sight, virtually the entire Iraqi high
command had vanished, including Abid Hammoud al-Tikriti,
Saddam's cousin and personal bodyguard; Barzan Ibrahim
Hassan al-Tikriti, a.k.a. "Uncle Barzan," Saddam's half-
brother and leader of the Mukhabarat (Iraqi secret police-
-J.T.); and Watban Ibrahim al-Tikriti, Saddam's other
half-brother and former Minister of the Interior.
(Editor's Note: On Sunday, April 13, 2003, Watban Ibrahim
al-Tikriti was captured by Allied forces in Rabia while
trying to slip across the border into Syria.)
    "They just didn't show up for work on Wednesday," a
U.S. intelligence source was quoted as saying.
    The "hot gossip" in Iraq's UFO community attributes
both of Saddam's incredible escapes to a group of alleged
aliens hiding out in Iraq. According to this legend, a
UFO crash-landed in Iraq during either Gulf War 1 in 1991
or during Operation Desert Fox in 1998. Saddam supposedly
granted the aliens sanctuary in Iraq in exchange for
technological information that would keep his armed forces
on a par with his enemies--the USA, UK and Israel. The
aliens were reportedly staying at an underground base in
Zarzi or the ancient citadel of Qalaat-e-Julundi, both
located in the as-Zab as-Saghir (Little Zab) river valley
north of Tikrit.
    "Once again, they say the aliens saved the lives of
Saddam and his sons," Mohammed Daud al-Hayyat stated.
"They appeared at the Mansur house while the American
bomber was enroute. They shined the mysterious beam at
the wall, and once again the circle of light, or portal or
vortex or whatever it is you UFO Roundup people call it,
was created. Saddam, Uday, Qusay and Abid Hammoud stepped
into it, followed by the aliens. And then they vanished."
    "When Saddam emerged from the circle of light, he
found himself at the underground base in Al-Ouja. He
discussed the situation with the aliens. Uday was very
loud and angry. He demanded that the aliens give his
father Drona Parva weapons so they could strike directly
at America. The aliens ignored him."
(Editor's Note: The Drona Parva is a book of the ancient
Hindu epic, the Mahabharata, describing energy weapons
that make nuclear bombs look like Fourth of July
firecrackers.)
    "The aliens told Saddam that they could not save his
regime. However, because he had protected them from the
Americans, they would show their appreciation by helping
him and his family escape into space. They would not
allow Saddam to fall into the hands of his enemies, the
Zionists. A large UFO was summoned to Al-Ouja, and Saddam
and his family departed. As to where they have fled, no
one can say."
     "And another thing--why is as-Zab as-Saghir north of
Tikrit the only part of Iraq that has not been invaded,
not even after the (Iraqi) 5th Corps surrendered? Why has
the Anglo-American coalition cordoned off this region?"
    If Uncle Bandar's Mukhabarat agents knew about the
presence of the UFOs on Sunday, that might explain
Saddam's strange confidence when he was photographed
Sunday afternoon.
    The critical question here is exactly when the F-15E
went down and what its mission was north of Tikrit. Did
an AWACS plane pick up the radar image of the cylindrical
UFO over Al-Ouja? Did U.S. Central Command vector the F-
15E Strike Eagle after this surprise "target?" Did the
same UFO that supposedly picked up Saddam shoot down the
F-15E?
    As of this writing, the final fate of Saddam and his
sons is still unknown. (See USA Today for Wednesday,
April 9, 2003, "Hunt underway for missing airmen" and "How
the strike against Saddam unfolded," page 4A; for
Thursday, April 10, 2003, "No one ready to declare Saddam,
sons dead," page 4A and "Pockets of stubborn resistance
dot the map," page 5A; and the tabloid Globe for April 22,
2003, "Saddam Fakes It!" page 27. Many thanks to Robert
Fischer, Ayesha al-Khatabi, Mohammed Daud al-Hayyat, Steve
Wilson Sr. and others for this report.)


FIVE UFOs SIGHTED NEAR
DIJON, FRANCE

    On Saturday, April 5, 2003, at 11:15 p.m., Patrick
Combes, 20, and his 30-year-old brother were watching TV
at their home in Marsannay-la-Cote, a town near Dijon in
the department Cote d'Or in eastern France. Patrick
reported, "Then, after the broadcast ended, my brother
went out on the terrace to have a cigarette. One minute
later, he called me loudly, but I did not react because I
thought he wanted to make a joke. He called me again,
wanted me to hurry."
    "Then I went out very quickly. He asked me to look
into the sky in a northerly direction, and then I saw five
lights which I consider five identical objects. Because
these five 'objects' moved very fast, around each other,
mixing them like a swarm of bees. But they remained
grouped, going away northwards."
    The elder Combes added, "I was smoking my cigarette,
then I saw a small light in the sky. At first I believed
it was a plane but then I looked at it again. I saw five
lights coming from the east, going westward. They moved
by jerks, then formed a triangle (formation). During the
sighting, we heard no noise. It was the first time my
brother and I had seen such a phenomenon."
    Dijon is about 200 kilometers (120 miles) southeast
of Paris. (Merci beaucoup a Robert Fischer pour ces
rapports.)


FORTY PEOPLE WATCH A
UFO IN CENTRAL POLAND

    On Thursday, March 20, 2003, at 2 a.m., about 40
people working the night shift at a local factory were on
break when they spotted a UFO over Kolbiel in central
Poland.
    "They all watched a large flying object in the shape
of a drop-sphere, which was moving without making a
sound," reported Polish ufologist Tomasz Wierszalowicz,
"The object moved slowly from a high altitude down to the
ground. While it was near the ground, the people saw a
red circle of light, a kind of halo or glow, moving over
the terrain as if the object was shining a spotlight."
(Many thanks to Tomasz Werszalowicz of Polish UFO Reports
for this news story.)


UFOs SPOTTED IN COLOMBIA
AND BRAZIL

    According to Colombian ufologist Edgar Arce, on
Monday, March 17, 2003, during a UFO watch sponsored by
the group Contacto OVNI, "eighty witnesses were present
and saw several orange-colored UFOs hovering and
performing aerial maneuvers over Mount Juaica, in the
Tabio region near the city of Cundinamarca."
    "Two days earlier, on Saturday, March 15, 2003,
between 10:45 p.m. and mdnight, the witnesses had seen
orange lights in the distance, which later seemed to dim
in intensity. Then, minutes later, they observed small
red and blue lights flying up from the ground into space
for a period of 10 minutes."
    And, in Brazil, "daylight UFOs were photographed as
they flew over Ilha Porchat (island) and later Ilha
Urubuqueraba (island) in the South Atlantic." The islands
are just offshore from Santos, the main seaport of Sao
Paulo state. "These objects were of a spherical shape,
colored silver, and had small interior lights." (The
Colombia report appeared in NotiOVNI for April 6, 2003.
Muchas gracias a Daniel Munoz para esas noticias. Por o
caso do Brasil, muito obrigado a Pedro Teixeira.)


LARGE BLUE UFO APPEARS
IN NORTHERN ARIZONA

    On Wednesday, April 2, 2003, Patricia F. and her
companions were hiking along the Kaibab Trail at the Grand
Canyon in northern Arizona. She reports, "We were taking
a night hike and we heard a loud noise in the sky. We did
not know what it was. Then we looked up and saw the
mysterious mothership. It was glowing bright blue, and we
were terrified."
    "Then there was a flash of light, and the object
split in two. Then the objects headed in different
directions. One piece headed west and one east. The
initial object was huge, and it was cone-shaped, but the
ends were rounded. It was three miles up (5,000 meters)
and it was going at 70 miles per hour. We were too scared
to even think about it. This is the first time that we've
reported it." (Email Form Report)


STRANGE DISAPPEARANCES
REPORTED IN ALGERIA

    "Desert nomads were reported yesterday (Monday, April
7, 2003) to have discovered an abandoned vehicle and a
network of tunnels in a remote region of southern Algeria,
thought likely to provide clues about the mysterious
disappearance of 29 Western (European) tourists in the
Sahara over the past seven weeks."
    "Germany's ARD television channel said the off-road
vehicles were found in a mountainous district north of the
Algerian town of Tamanrasset at the weekend by a camel
train (caravan--J.T.) of nomads passing through the
region."
    "The vehicle was left parked outside the entrance to
a complex system of underground caves linked by tunnels.
The nomads said they suspected the caves 'were inhabited'
although they had not entered the system to find out."
    "The nomads' find appeared to be the first clue so
far in an increasingly desperate search for the missing
tourists, whose number increased to 29 last week after
Austria announced that eight of its citizens had
disappeared in the region."
    "Sixteen Germans, four Swiss and one Nederlander
(Dutchman) have gone missing in the Algerian Sahara since
the beginning of March (2003)."
    "On Sunday (April 6, 2003), a team of five
investigators from Germany's Federal Criminal Bureau were
dispatched to Algiers to join Algerian and other German
police in the hunt for the missing tourists. All 29 were
in three groups that were exploring the region
independently in off-road vehicles."
    "The last evidence of their whereabouts is a
photograph taken by a friend of the missing tourists that
shows six of the explorers with a car and three
motorcycles while taking a break on a pass in the Algerian
mountains on February 21, 2003. Two days later, the first
group disappeared."
    "German and Algerian investigators suspect that the
tourists may have been taken hostage by a militant
Islamist group known as the Salafist Group for Call and
Combat (GSPC), which has links to Al-Qaeda. The GSPC is
fighting the Algerian authorities and has been active in
the central Sahara for years."
    "However, no ransom demand has so far been made."
    "'We cannot rule out any possibilities. There have
been no demands,' said a German Federal Criminal Bureau
spokesman. He said the search had been widened to include
the use of helicopters equipped with heat-seeking
cameras." (See the UK newspaper The Independent for April
8, 2003, "Saharan tunnels could solve mystery of missng
tourists." Many thanks to Robert Fischer and OVNI Maroc
for this newspaper story.)
(Editor's Note: Aside from the possibility of alien
involvement in these strange disappearances, the caves of
that region have links to the lost continent of Atlantis.
For more, see Atlantis Rising No. 39 for May/June 2003,
"Atlanteans across the Sahara" by Frank Joseph, pages 38,
41 and 68.)



    That's it for this week. Join us in seven days for
more UFO, paranormal and Fortean news from around the
planet Earth, brought to you by "the paper that goes home-
-UFO Roundup." See you next time.

  UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2003 by Masinaigan Productions,
all rights reserved. Readers may post news items from UFO
Roundup on their websites or in news groups provided that
they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list
the date of issue in which the item first appeared.

E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com>
or use the Sighting Report Form at:

http://www.ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Website comments: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>

UFOINFO: http://www.ufoinfo.com

Official Archives of UFO Roundup, AUFORN Australian
UFO Reports and Experiences, UFO + PSI Magazine, plus
archives of Filer's Files, Oz Files, UFO News UK and
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   Apr > Apr 15

                         Media Notice - 'The Secret'

From: Stephen G. Bassett <ParadigmRG@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 17:24:30 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 18:39:51 -0400
Subject: Media Notice - 'The Secret'


PRG
Paradigm Research Group

An important new documentary airs Wednesday, April 15 at 10 pm
EDT on the Sci-FI Channel. Below is a forward of the press
release. SB

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

'The Secret' To Air Tonight on the Sci-Fi Channel in USA
April 15, 2003

Broomfield, CO April 15, 2003 - Wood & Wood LLC announces that
'The Secret: Evidence We Are Not Alone' has been licensed and
will be aired April 15, 2003 on the Science Fiction channel.
Surprisingly, we were just notified of this initial airing. It
will be shown again and we should have much better advance
notice.

The program was produced by the father and son team of Robert
and Ryan Wood, edited by iO Productions of Los Angeles
(www.ioproductions.com), and syndicated with Cinamour
Entertainment (www.cinamour.com).

"We are excited about The Secret because of its unique
perspective in the UFO genre. Besides being an outstanding
documentary, the program covers new ground with a hard look at
the Majestic 12 documents and their authenticity from multiple
expert perspectives," said Ryan Wood, Executive Producer.

The Secret presents the story of how "leaked" government
documents prove that t he United States has been recovering
crashed unidentified flying objects, often known as flying
saucers, since 1941, and has been successful in keeping this
information from the public. These documents have been examined
using forensic techniques and are declared genuine by those who
examine the subtleties of paper, ink age, watermark, type fonts,
classification stamps and markings. The central basis of the
show is the content nof the documents and the amazing story they
tell =E2=C7" a different approach.

The pub lic is hungry for genuine UFO information, and they are
not getting it from the governments of the world. This program
is not a rehash of the old Roswell crash scenarios, providing
evidence that the first U.S. crash was in Missouri in 1941. A
short interview with one of the principal sources of this
Missouri crash retrieval can be viewed at:
www.majesticdocuments.com/documentary.html

Not only does this show have some distinguished advocates taking
compelling supportive positions, such as Astronaut Ed Mitche ll,
and researchers Stanton Friedman, Timothy Good, and Michael
Lindemann, but some dissenting views are included from skeptical
corners.

R Y A N S W O O D & D R. R O B E R T M W O O D
Majestic Document Investigators

For More Information Contact:
Ryan S. Wood
Phone: 720-887-8171
E-mail: rswood@majesticdocuments.com
Or mail to: 14004 Quail Ridge Drive, Broomfield, CO 80020


______________________________________________________

Paradigm Research Group
URL: www.paradigmclock.com
E-mail: Paradigm RG@aol.com
Cell: 202-431-2459
4938 Hampden Lane, #161
Bethesda, MD 20814
_______________________________________________________

  "There is almost no limit to what you can accomplish,
  if you are willing to give away the credit."
_______________________________________________________
  "Intellectual passion is found at the intersection
  of fact and implication."









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   Apr > Apr 15

                     Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 19:27:00 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 20:10:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux - Maccabee


 >From: Tom King <tomking2030@hotmail.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 14:59:43 +0000
 >Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Redux

 >Jim D. of Village Labs has stated many times that the 10:00 pm
 >lights never moved or dropped.

 >Please go here and take a look for yourself.

 >http://www.ufovideo.com/march13/1000.php

 >I have stabilized the city lights from 3 different videos taken
 >on 3-13-97. You can see that these lights do drop downward in a
 >manner consistent with flares. They certainly don't rise up!

 >Maybe some of those people that wrote books about these
 >sightings can update their products and invest in some white
 >out.

This confirms what I discovered in 1998 by comparing frames when
the lights appeared with frames just before they disappeared.
Lights dropped and moved a bit to the left as they dropped.






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   Apr > Apr 15

                    Re: Filer's Files #15 -- 2003 - Oberg

From: James Oberg <jamesoberg@houston.rr.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 18:40:51 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 20:15:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #15 -- 2003 - Oberg


 >From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 14:21:44 EDT
 >Subject: Filer's Files #15 -- 2003


 >http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2003/apr/m10-003.shtml
 >DR HERMAN OBERTH FATHER OF ROCKETRY SAYS UFOs EXIST


 >"We find ourselves faced by powers which are far stronger than
 >we had hitherto assumed, and whose base is at present unknown to
 >us. More I cannot say at present. We are now engaged in entering
 >into closer contact with those powers, and in six or nine months
 >time it may be possible to speak with some precision on the
 >matter."


I've come to appreciate the useful services Filer's cataloguing
of raw reports provides, but whenever he ventures into technical
fields I'm familiar with, it's obvious how reality-challenged he
remains.

This bogus Oberth quote is just another in a long series of
phony myths and folklore he's been promoting. Verification can
be overlooked when reporting current events, but when old
stories -- long debunked and abandoned by real investigators -
are promoted by Filer as 'authentic', he does a disservice to
real ufology.

On this 'Oberth quote', I merely offer a bet: there's not a
single shread of evidence it is a quote from Oberth, and Filer
cannot provide any such evidence - and I'll make a wager that I
challenge him to accept.

Here are the stakes: A three-month vow of internet silence by me
or him, whoever is shown to be wrong. Provide the evidence,
George, and I'll shut up - fail to provide the evidence, and
_you_ shut up - but I doubt he'll take the bet,  because real
evidence and real research isn't what he contributes to the
field.



JimO







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   Apr > Apr 15

                     Vanished Tourists/Strange Parallel

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 16:48:02 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 20:18:13 -0400
Subject: Vanished Tourists/Strange Parallel


A story about vanished (presumably kidnapped) tourists appears
on Whitley Strieber's Unknown Country today (4-15-03). A
"cryptic message" was left etched in the bark of a tree, reading
"CROATAN."

This immediately rang a bell. I reached for Ken MacLeod's
science fiction novel "Cosmonaut Keep" (which, eerily enough,
deals with flying saucers and ETs) and found the following text
as the epigraph:

"and one of the chiefe trees or posts at the right side of the
entrance had the barke taken off, and 5 foote from the ground in
fayre Capitall letters was graven CROATOAN without any crosse or
signe of distresse"

Is this a clue?

What am I missing?

Startled,

Mac Tonnies







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   Apr > Apr 16

                       Re: UFO Duck Hunting! - Yturria

From: Santiago Yturria <syturria@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 19:50:16 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 08:08:51 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Duck Hunting! - Yturria


 >From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
<Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 10:19:27 -0500
 >Subject: Re: UFO Duck Hunting!

 >From: Santiago Yturria <syturria@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 22:52:04 EDT
 >Subject: Re: UFO Duck Hunting!

 >May I have a copy of the original footage (unaltered,
 >unenhanced, etc.) for my analysis? I would also need to know
 >what photographic equipment was used by Mr. Woods (brand of
 >camera, type), the exact camera settings used during filming and
 >basic details of the event (date, location, time, weather
 >conditions, compass directions, etc.). I will gladly reimburse
 >you for shipping and handling as well as the cost of the VHS
 >tape. In addition, I would like to study the unaltered MPEG
 >clips you have offered and will try to post them on temporary
 >web space for all to review if that would be OK with you and Mr.
 >Woods (if the file size is not too big).

Dear Amy,

I can send you a VHS copy of the footage for your analysis.

The sighting was taped on August 9, 2001. I mentioned September
8 in my email but I was confused by the video date (9.8.01) but
I'm correcting myself now. The hour was 10:14 AM and it was a
cloudy morning. Anthony Woods was in his parent's home and the
sighting lasted several minutes. The camcorder was a JVC GR-
  SXM55 VHS-C capable of record in SUPER VHS-C ET tape PAL format
and equiped with zoom lens 20X optical and 400X digital.

Anthony used manual focus, no steadyshot and not AE filters.

Sometimes the UFO remained almost static in the sky, rotating on
its axis in a vertical manner at certain altitude. It had a dark
undefined shape that seemed to change when rotating.

I would like to hear your comments after you review the footage.
I have my own opinion and will respect your conclusions.


Yours,

Santiago Yturria







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   Apr > Apr 16

                  Re: Media Notice - 'The Secret' - Kimball

From: Paul Kimball <Kimballwood@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 20:30:01 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 08:11:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Media Notice - 'The Secret' - Kimball


 >From: Stephen G. Bassett <ParadigmRG@aol.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 17:24:30 -0400
 >Subject: PRG Media Notice - 'The Secret'

<snip>

 >'The Secret' To Air Tonight on the Sci-Fi Channel in USA
 >April 15, 2003

<snip>

 >The program was produced by the father and son team of Robert
 >and Ryan Wood, edited by iO Productions of Los Angeles
 >(www.ioproductions.com), and syndicated with Cinamour
 >Entertainment (www.cinamour.com).

 >"We are excited about The Secret because of its unique
 >perspective in the UFO genre. Besides being an outstanding
 >documentary, the program covers new ground with a hard look at
 >the Majestic 12 documents and their authenticity from multiple
 >expert perspectives," said Ryan Wood, Executive Producer.

 >The Secret presents the story of how "leaked" government
 >documents prove that t he United States has been recovering
 >crashed unidentified flying objects, often known as flying
 >saucers, since 1941, and has been successful in keeping this
 >information from the public. These documents have been examined
 >using forensic techniques and are declared genuine by those who
 >examine the subtleties of paper, ink age, watermark, type fonts,
 >classification stamps and markings. The central basis of the
 >show is the content nof the documents and the amazing story they
 >tell =E2=C7" a different approach.

 >The public is hungry for genuine UFO information, and they are
 >not getting it from the governments of the world. This program
 >is not a rehash of the old Roswell crash scenarios, providing
 >evidence that the first U.S. crash was in Missouri in 1941. A
 >short interview with one of the principal sources of this
 >Missouri crash retrieval can be viewed at:
 >www.majesticdocuments.com/documentary.html

 >Not only does this show have some distinguished advocates taking
 >compelling supportive positions, such as Astronaut Ed Mitche ll,
 >and researchers Stanton Friedman, Timothy Good, and Michael
 >Lindemann, but some dissenting views are included from skeptical
 >corners.

I don't intend this as a post that will dredge up last year's
long "Truth & the Media" strand, but...

Also, in the interests of "full disclosure" I must add that my
company is currently in production on a documentary about
Majestic-12 for Canadian television that will feature, among
many others, Stan Friedman, Nick Redfern, Karl Pflock, John
Greenwald, Bruce Maccabee, and Rich Dolan.

Those caveats aside, into the breach once more.....

I saw The Secret on Space: The Imagination Station (Canada)
about two months ago. More "fluff" than "stuff", alas, with some
pretty hokey sci-fi type graphics taking away from the issues  -
  why does almost every UFO doc these days seem to be obliged to
use cheesy CG to "re-create" flying saucers?

And just where were those skeptical dissenting views? I seem to
recall that Karl Pflock had a few seconds of screen time, during
which he was made to look like he believed the documents are
something other than a hoax. Other than that? Bupkus. Nada.
Zilch.

Given that the film was produced by two of the biggest
proponents of the veracity of the documents, that's hardly
surprising, but to suggest that the film is even-handed (I can
see certain Listers cringing at the mention of the term "even-
handed") is disingenuous. A better way of putting it would have
been "Longtime MJ-12 proponents Robert and Ryan Wood make their
case", which, on its own terms, would have been fine. But let's
not pretend it's an independent, objective documentary.

Majestic-12 is a subject crying out for a major, balanced
(cringe again) documentary, where both sides of this very
controversial subject receive a full and fair airing, and the
viewer can make an informed judgment. Unfortunately, in this
regard, The Secret doesn't hit the mark.


Paul Kimball
www.redstarfilm.com








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              Re: Vanished Tourists/Strange Parallel - Tonnies

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 19:56:03 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 08:26:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Vanished Tourists/Strange Parallel - Tonnies


 >From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 16:48:02 -0700 (PDT)
 >Subject: Vanished Tourists/Strange Parallel

 >A story about vanished (presumably kidnapped) tourists appears
 >on Whitley Strieber's Unknown Country today (4-15-03). A
 >"cryptic message" was left etched in the bark of a tree, reading
 >"CROATAN."


Please allow me to respond to my own message. I read the post on
Unknown Country glancingly and transposed the old Roanoke
message (which I didn't know anything about) with the Sahara
message. Consequently, the post above is rather lacking in
lucidity. (That's probably an understatement.)

For anyone interested in just how my train of thought
became detrailed, the story is here:

http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com

My apologies!

=====
 >Mac Tonnies
macbot@yahoo.com

Explore MTVI @ http://www.mactonnies.com

Posthuman Blues: http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com (updated daily)







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   Apr > Apr 16

                    'Contact of the Fifth Kind' (Review)

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 21:18:33 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 08:28:19 -0400
Subject: 'Contact of the Fifth Kind' (Review)


CONTACT OF THE FIFTH KIND by Philip Imbrogno and
Marianne Horrigan

review by Mac Tonnies

"Contact of the Fifth Kind," following on the heels of the
tantalizing "Night Siege," is a disappointment. Imbrogno and
Horrigan relate some potentially interesting phenomena but lose
themselves in a disjointed and underdeveloped exploration of
interdimensional travel, a particularly credulous recounting of
the alleged "Philadelphia Experiment," encounters with channeled
alien beings, and a pointless chapter detailing a possible
underground UFO base.

"Contact of the Fifth Kind" is mercifully skimpy, and students
of the "flying triangle" phenomenon will likely find a few
compelling details lurking throughout the text. But Imbrogno and
Horrigan's effort is weak on evidence and narrative energy. For
dedicated ufophiles only. See also: "Silent Invasion" by Ellen
Crystall.

UFO books galore:

http://www.mactonnies.com/ufobooks.html






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               Re: Vanished Tourists/Strange Parallel - Spivey

From: Walt Spivey,Jr. <MacleodIV@webtv.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 00:51:29 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 08:30:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Vanished Tourists/Strange Parallel - Spivey


Mac:

I believe "CROATOAN" was also found carved on a tree at the site
of the Jamestown colony, perhaps better known as the "lost
colony".

Cordially,

Walt Spivey, Jr.

http://community.webtv.net/MacleodIV/NCUFOANORTHCAROLINA







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                    Re: Filer's Files #15 -- 2003 - Alevy

From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 01:15:15 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 08:33:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #15 -- 2003 - Alevy


 >From: James Oberg <jamesoberg@houston.rr.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 18:40:51 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Filer's Files #15 -- 2003

 >>From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 14:21:44 EDT
 >>Subject: Filer's Files #15 -- 2003

 >>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2003/apr/m10-003.shtml
 >>DR HERMAN OBERTH FATHER OF ROCKETRY SAYS UFOs EXIST

 >>"We find ourselves faced by powers which are far stronger than
 >>we had hitherto assumed, and whose base is at present unknown to
 >>us. More I cannot say at present. We are now engaged in entering
 >>into closer contact with those powers, and in six or nine months
 >>time it may be possible to speak with some precision on the
 >>matter."

 >I've come to appreciate the useful services Filer's cataloguing
 >of raw reports provides, but whenever he ventures into technical
 >fields I'm familiar with, it's obvious how reality-challenged he
 >remains.

 >This bogus Oberth quote is just another in a long series of
 >phony myths and folklore he's been promoting. Verification can
 >be overlooked when reporting current events, but when old
 >stories -- long debunked and abandoned by real investigators -
 > are promoted by Filer as 'authentic', he does a disservice to
 >real ufology.

 >On this 'Oberth quote', I merely offer a bet: there's not a
 >single shread of evidence it is a quote from Oberth, and Filer
 >cannot provide any such evidence - and I'll make a wager that I
 >challenge him to accept.

 >Here are the stakes: A three-month vow of internet silence by me
 >or him, whoever is shown to be wrong. Provide the evidence,
 >George, and I'll shut up - fail to provide the evidence, and
 >_you_ shut up - but I doubt he'll take the bet,  because real
 >evidence and real research isn't what he contributes to the
 >field.


Dear Mr. Oberg,

I have to admit that I was amazed to see that you had taken the
time to put such a frivolous post in such an out of the way
place as UFO UpDates. That is, the news today from the space
program is that the Space Shuttle may never fly again due to
fatal defects in the carbon-carbon wing sections.

I would think that your great propagandistic skills would be of
much more service to the nation over on the Usenet newsgroups,
e.g. sci.space.shuttle, Sci.space.policy than here killing UFO
ants with Obergian shovels.

At a time when the space program is literally falling around our
ears I can hardly believe that you are hanging around the local
UFO bus station mugging the local denizens asleep on their
benches.

Get back to serious work, your country needs you. Save NASA!!!


Gary Alevy








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              Re: Vanished Tourists/Strange Parallel - Thompson

From: Paul B. Thompson <MrApol@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 06:10:19 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 08:36:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Vanished Tourists/Strange Parallel - Thompson


 >From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 16:48:02 -0700 (PDT)
 >Subject: Vanished Tourists/Strange Parallel

 >A story about vanished (presumably kidnapped) tourists appears
 >on Whitley Strieber's Unknown Country today (4-15-03). A
 >"cryptic message" was left etched in the bark of a tree, reading
 >"CROATAN."


This is all a reference to the "Lost Colony" of Roanoke Island,
North Carolina.

In the late 16th century, Sir Walter Raleigh founded a small
colony on the Carolina coast. The first child of English
parentage born in America, Virginia Dare, was born there. Later,
Raleigh's ships sailed away, leaving the colonists to fend for
themselves. When they returned much later, the colony was
abandoned. No trace of the people was ever found, though there's
some evidence they were attacked by local Indians and the
survivors absorbed by the tribe. The word CROATOAN was found
carved on a tree. That's the name of the local Indian tribe, the
Croatans.

Every summer they stage an outdoor drama at Manteo, NC, called
"The Lost Colony". Been doing it for decades; it's very famous.

These other, later references sound like fiction to me.


Paul B. Thompson
resident of North Carolina...










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                       Re: UFO Duck Hunting! - Hebert

From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 09:31:27 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 11:16:45 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Duck Hunting! - Hebert


 >From: Santiago Yturria <syturria@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 19:50:16 EDT
 >Subject: Re: UFO Duck Hunting!

 >>From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 ><Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 10:19:27 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: UFO Duck Hunting!

 >>May I have a copy of the original footage (unaltered,
 >>unenhanced, etc.) for my analysis? I would also need to know
 >>what photographic equipment was used by Mr. Woods (brand of
 >>camera, type), the exact camera settings used during filming and
 >>basic details of the event (date, location, time, weather
 >>conditions, compass directions, etc.).

 >Dear Amy,

 >I can send you a VHS copy of the footage for your analysis.

Thank you, Santiago. I will send my address to you via private
E-mail. I need a copy of the raw footage, if possible (no
editing, no enhancements, no alterations, please).

 >The sighting was taped on August 9, 2001. I mentioned September
 >8 in my email but I was confused by the video date (9.8.01) but
 >I'm correcting myself now. The hour was 10:14 AM and it was a
 >cloudy morning. Anthony Woods was in his parent's home and the
 >sighting lasted several minutes. The camcorder was a JVC GR-
 >SXM55 VHS-C capable of record in SUPER VHS-C ET tape PAL format
 >and equiped with zoom lens 20X optical and 400X digital.

I sometimes get dates mixed up myself so I totally understand.
<grin>

Thank you for the information. Once I have had a chance to
analyze the footage I will explain the reasons for the questions
I ask.

 >Anthony used manual focus, no steadyshot and not AE filters.

I will review the features of the camera used and include the
information in my final report.

 >Sometimes the UFO remained almost static in the sky, rotating on
 >its axis in a vertical manner at certain altitude. It had a dark
 >undefined shape that seemed to change when rotating.

One aspect I've noticed in reports of UFO sightings is the
tendency to describe an object as having an "undefined shape"
that seemed to "change". Since it is difficult to determine the
actual physical state of an unknown object, especially when
sighted from a distance, I find it prudent to acknowledge the
possibility the object may have been viewed from alternating, 3-
dimensional perspectives due to rotation and movement.

In videos, a rotating object may appear to manifest all kinds of
shapes, sizes and colors (especially when frozen in time in
video stills) due to changes in lighting, shadows, altitudes and
weather conditions. Digital zoom features (which magnify the
pixels as opposed to optical zoom which magnifies the image) can
cause all kinds of distortions and may even "morph" the original
image into something entirely different (optical zoom alone can
also cause distortions of the original image).

As always, I encourage others to take their video cameras (all
kinds) and photographic equipment, go outside and experiment by
filming/photographing known flying objects at various zoom
levels and settings to see for themselves how objects may appear
in videos, video stills and photographs. Video and photographic
images are not the same as the objects themselves and can
sometimes appear dramatically different from the original
subject.

 >I would like to hear your comments after you review the footage.
 >I have my own opinion and will respect your conclusions.

And I respect your opinions and conclusions as well. Above all,
I admire your willingness to share the footage and to seek
alternate opinions.

I look forward to our continued discussion on this topic.

Sincerely,

A. Hebert







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              Sci-Fi's Blitzkrieg Of UFO Lies & Dis-Information

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 11:10:19 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 11:45:28 -0400
Subject: Sci-Fi's Blitzkrieg Of UFO Lies & Dis-Information


The entire three-hours of SciFi's 'UFO' programming last night
was a complete abortion. A collection of the very worst in
ufology. If it was 'fringy' or 'out there' it made it into the
programs. No mention at all of _any_ serious research or
researchers. They avoided mentioning anything serious or
credible assiduously.

The first hour was full of explanations about the "Galactic
Brotherhood" and 'alien souls" who have "walked-in" and taken
over human bodies, complete with Sean David Morton as an
'expert' commentator - who dared to take credit, on air, for
"blowing the lid off of the Area 51 story"!

The second hour focused on the Heaven's Gate and the Raelian
cults as if they represented some kind of 'mainstream' in
ufology. It was insanity piled on insanity. A relentless
compilation of pure junk and bombastic lies presented as
'representative' of ufology.

It was unbelievable. I was incensed.

Then came the 'topper'; the Wood's making a case for MJ-12
without any opposing point of view or comment. If the Sci-fi
channel is out to sabotage and destroy the credibility of all of
ufology, this first concerted attack was as destructive as any.
As damaging as anyone could _intentionally_ put together.

It was a 'blitzkrieg' of lies and dis-information about 'UFOs'
and ufology. No less than the worst misrepresentation of
the phenomenon I have ever seen on television. Or anywhere
else for that matter.

'Why Kecksburg' becomes clearer and clearer. Ufology is being
systematically trashed in public _big-time_ and it gives every
indication of only getting worse. The three hours of programming
was the single most horrible trashing that ufology has taken, in
the mass media, since NOVA and PBS tackled the subject.

Paul, I'm looking forward to your documentary on MJ-12. I trust
we'll get a much more balanced presentation and review than that
abortion that was aired on the Sci-Fi channel last night.


John Velez
Pissed







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                  Re: Media Notice - 'The Secret' - Aldrich

From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 10:50:42 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 11:48:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Media Notice - 'The Secret' - Aldrich



 >From: Paul Kimball <Kimballwood@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 20:30:01 EDT
 >Subject: Re: Media Notice - 'The Secret'

 >>From: Stephen G. Bassett <ParadigmRG@aol.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 17:24:30 -0400
 >>Subject: PRG Media Notice - 'The Secret'

 ><snip>

 >>'The Secret' To Air Tonight on the Sci-Fi Channel in USA
 >>April 15, 2003

 ><snip>

 >>The program was produced by the father and son team of Robert
 >>and Ryan Wood, edited by iO Productions of Los Angeles
 >>(www.ioproductions.com), and syndicated with Cinamour
 >>Entertainment (www.cinamour.com).

 >>"We are excited about The Secret because of its unique
 >>perspective in the UFO genre. Besides being an outstanding
 >>documentary, the program covers new ground with a hard look at
 >>the Majestic 12 documents and their authenticity from multiple
 >>expert perspectives," said Ryan Wood, Executive Producer.
 >
 >>The Secret presents the story of how "leaked" government
 >>documents prove that t he United States has been recovering
 >>crashed unidentified flying objects, often known as flying
 >>saucers, since 1941, and has been successful in keeping this
 >>information from the public. These documents have been examined
 >>using forensic techniques and are declared genuine by those who
 >>examine the subtleties of paper, ink age, watermark, type fonts,
 >>classification stamps and markings. The central basis of the
 >>show is the content nof the documents and the amazing story they
 >>tell  a different approach.

 >>The public is hungry for genuine UFO information, and they are
 >>not getting it from the governments of the world. This program
 >>is not a rehash of the old Roswell crash scenarios, providing
 >>evidence that the first U.S. crash was in Missouri in 1941. A
 >>short interview with one of the principal sources of this
 >>Missouri crash retrieval can be viewed at:

 >>www.majesticdocuments.com/documentary.html

 >>Not only does this show have some distinguished advocates taking
 >>compelling supportive positions, such as Astronaut Ed Mitche ll,
 >>and researchers Stanton Friedman, Timothy Good, and Michael
 >>Lindemann, but some dissenting views are included from skeptical
 >>corners.

<snip>

 >Given that the film was produced by two of the biggest
 >proponents of the veracity of the documents, that's hardly
 >surprising, but to suggest that the film is even-handed (I can
 >see certain Listers cringing at the mention of the term "even-
 >handed") is disingenuous. A better way of putting it would have
 >been "Longtime MJ-12 proponents Robert and Ryan Wood make their
 >case", which, on its own terms, would have been fine. But let's
 >not pretend it's an independent, objective documentary.

 >Majestic-12 is a subject crying out for a major, balanced
 >(cringe again) documentary, where both sides of this very
 >controversial subject receive a full and fair airing, and the
 >viewer can make an informed judgment. Unfortunately, in this
 >regard, The Secret doesn't hit the mark.


Paul,

Even-handed? Balanced? Excuse me for skepticism. but your list
of names does not seem much different for Sci-Fi's. Perhaps you
should talk to Tim Good about MJ-12 documents and Cooper's
typewriter.

Perhaps you should look at U. F. O. Historical Revue #3 at

http://www.cufon.org

Perhaps you should review how these documents came into ufology
and the other "documents" which came with them which are no
longer discussed.

Nah, that would just get in the way of a good story.

Forget I mentioned it. Much better to not to have negatives in
such an enterprise.

Have to run, I am going out to meet P. T. Barnum for a drink.

Later.

Jan Aldrich

Project 1947
http://www.project1947.com/
P. O. Box 391
Canterbury, CT 06331
(860) 546-9135








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                  Re: Filer's Files #15 -- 2003 - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 10:41:44 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 11:51:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #15 -- 2003 - Stanford


 >From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com>
 >To: UFO UpDate <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 01:15:15 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Filer's Files #15 -- 2003

 >>From: James Oberg <jamesoberg@houston.rr.com>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 18:40:51 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Filer's Files #15 -- 2003

 >>>From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 14:21:44 EDT
 >>>Subject: Filer's Files #15 -- 2003

 >Dear Mr. Oberg,

 >I have to admit that I was amazed to see that you had taken the
 >time to put such a frivolous post in such an out of the way
 >place as UFO UpDates. That is, the news today from the space
 >program is that the Space Shuttle may never fly again due to
 >fatal defects in the carbon-carbon wing sections.

 >I would think that your great propagandistic skills would be of
 >much more service to the nation over on the Usenet newsgroups,
 >e.g. sci.space.shuttle, Sci.space.policy than here killing UFO
 >ants with Obergian shovels.

 >At a time when the space program is literally falling around our
 >ears I can hardly believe that you are hanging around the local
 >UFO bus station mugging the local denizens asleep on their
 >benches.

 >Get back to serious work, your country needs you. Save NASA!!!


Gary,

Can you give us a reference for your statement:

 >That is, the news today from the space
 >program is that the Space Shuttle may never fly again due to
 >fatal defects in the carbon-carbon wing sections.

The reason I ask is that my wife, who is with the Hubble Space
Telescope (HST) servicing missions project, just read your
statement and says she has never heard anything to that effect.

So, I called the HST servicing missions safety engineer whom I
know because his office is just across the hall from my wife's,
and he hadn't heard the 'news' that you report. He said he
certainly thinks he should have heard it, if it were true.
  Also, he comented that even if that should, unbeknownst to him,
turn out to be true, it would not doom the shuttle, but only
delay it for changes.

Thus, barring a documented revelation that the shuttle is
doomed, and that Jim Oberg has been officially contracted into
duty explaining the situation to media (which, these days, don't
really seem to know much of anything scientific or technical), I
don't think he should be 'yelled at' and accused of being
derelict-of-duties to NASA when he corrects what he has reason
to believe are inaccuracies that appear here, even if one
disagrees with the style of his correction.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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                    Re: Filer's Files #15 -- 2003 - Oberg

From: James Oberg <jamesoberg@houston.rr.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 10:38:51 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 11:54:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #15 -- 2003 - Oberg


 >From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com>
 >To: UFO UpDate <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 01:15:15 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Filer's Files #15 -- 2003

<snip>

 >I would think that your great propagandistic skills would be of
 >much more service to the nation over on the Usenet newsgroups,
 >e.g. sci.space.shuttle, Sci.space.policy than here killing UFO
 >ants with Obergian shovels.

Thanks for the upbeat advice, and acknowledgement that Filer's
material is -- in this case -- unworthy of belief. My interests
do tend to focus on spaceflight-related folklore of all sorts,
and someday there even may be a book...

For the Columbia catastrophe, I've signed on as NBC News's chief
consultant on the causes, fixes, and recovery from this disaster
and the culture which allowed it to occur. See the 'Columbia'
section on my home page (www.jamesoberg.com) for evidence that
I'm already doing what you have generously and reasonably
advised.


Jim O







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                   Re: Filer's Files #15 -- 2003 - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 13:01:05 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 12:38:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #15 -- 2003 - Ledger


 >From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com>
 >To: UFO UpDate <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 01:15:15 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Filer's Files #15 -- 2003

 >>From: James Oberg <jamesoberg@houston.rr.com>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 18:40:51 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Filer's Files #15 -- 2003

 >>>From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 14:21:44 EDT
 >>>Subject: Filer's Files #15 -- 2003

 >>>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2003/apr/m10-003.shtml
 >>>DR HERMAN OBERTH FATHER OF ROCKETRY SAYS UFOs EXIST

 >>>"We find ourselves faced by powers which are far stronger
 >>>than we had hitherto assumed, and whose base is at
 >>>present unknown to us. More I cannot say at present. We
 >>>are now engaged in entering into closer contact with
 >>>those powers, and in six or nine months time it may be
 >>>possible to speak with some precision on the matter."

 >>I've come to appreciate the useful services Filer's
 >>cataloguing of raw reports provides, but whenever he
 >>ventures into technical fields I'm familiar with, it's
 >>obvious how reality-challenged he remains.
 >
 >
 >>This bogus Oberth quote is just another in a long series of
 >>phony myths and folklore he's been promoting. Verification
 >>can be overlooked when reporting current events, but when
 >>old stories -- long debunked and abandoned by real
 >>investigators - are promoted by Filer as 'authentic', he
 >>does a disservice to real ufology.

 >>On this 'Oberth quote', I merely offer a bet: there's not a
 >>single shread of evidence it is a quote from Oberth, and
 >>Filer cannot provide any such evidence - and I'll make a
 >>wager that I challenge him to accept.

 >>Here are the stakes: A three-month vow of internet silence
 >>by me or him, whoever is shown to be wrong. Provide the
 >>evidence, George, and I'll shut up - fail to provide the
 >>evidence, and _you_ shut up - but I doubt he'll take the
 >>bet, because real evidence and real research isn't what he
 >>contributes to the field.

 >I have to admit that I was amazed to see that you had taken
 >the time to put such a frivolous post in such an out of the
 >way place as UFO UpDates. That is, the news today from the
 >space program is that the Space Shuttle may never fly again
 >due to fatal defects in the carbon-carbon wing sections.

 >I would think that your great propagandistic skills would be
 >of much more service to the nation over on the Usenet
 >newsgroups, e.g. sci.space.shuttle, Sci.space.policy than
 >here killing UFO ants with Obergian shovels.

 >At a time when the space program is literally falling around
 >our ears I can hardly believe that you are hanging around the
 >local UFO bus station mugging the local denizens asleep on
 >their benches.

 >Get back to serious work, your country needs you. Save
 >NASA!!!


It seems to me that the rot in the upper echelons of NASA is in
greater need of repair than the Space Shuttle - and by rot I don't
necessarily mean the staff, but rather the inability of various
ranks to communicate with one another or various levels of
expertise to interrelate with one another without the class
system getting in the way. It doesn't look like the leading edge
slipper problem is unsolvable-far from it. But that's only if
the reason it failed [fastenings or material defects or
insufficient material] and what product externally could make it
fail is identified.

I don't mean to be crass but what if we treated airline travel
fatalities in the same manner as we do the flight of the
shuttles, airliners in that case would be grounded forever.
Between 100 and 200 times more people are killed every year in
airline crashes and 5,000 times more people are killed in car
accidents in the United States alone. I don't think those killed
on airliners or in cars are any less important than the crew of
the shuttle. At least not to thier respective families.
NASA is exploring space. Danger and the possible loss of life
during this exploration is a given. It should be expected and
then perhaps wondered about when it doesn't happen. But it will
happen.

As for Oberg's big shovel and we ufological ants. I'm not buying
that at all. From pilots sightings from the astronauts down to
the pilot in a J-3 Cub there are thousands of pilot UFO/UAP
reports as yet unexplained. I'm sure even JimO will admit to that.
As for the Oberth quote - is there or is there not a genuine
source for this?

Don Ledger






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                    Re: Sci-Fi's Blitzkrieg Of UFO Lies &

From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 11:11:13 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 12:40:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Sci-Fi's Blitzkrieg Of UFO Lies &


 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 11:10:19 -0400
 >Subject: Scifi's Blitzkrieg Of UFO Lies And Dis-Information

 >The entire three-hours of SciFi's 'UFO' programming last night
 >was a complete abortion. A collection of the very worst in
 >ufology. If it was 'fringy' or 'out there' it made it into the
 >programs. No mention at all of _any_ serious research or
 >researchers. They avoided mentioning anything serious or
 >credible assiduously.


I'm assuming that you meant "aberration" but perhaps "abortion"
is fitting. Much of that pap should be aborted as it doesn't
help, and often hurts, true ufological studies.

They don't call it the Sci-Fi channel for nothing.


Terry Groff
www.terrygroff.com/mufon







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                    Re: Sci-Fi's Blitzkrieg Of UFO Lies &

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 12:27:21 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 12:42:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Sci-Fi's Blitzkrieg Of UFO Lies &


 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 11:10:19 -0400
 >Subject: Sci-Fi's Blitzkrieg Of UFO Lies And Dis-Information

 >The entire three-hours of SciFi's 'UFO' programming last night
 >was a complete abortion. A collection of the very worst in
 >ufology. If it was 'fringy' or 'out there' it made it into the
 >programs. No mention at all of _any_ serious research or
 >researchers. They avoided mentioning anything serious ...

<snip>

 >It was unbelievable. I was incensed.

 >Then came the 'topper'; the Wood's making a case for MJ-12
 >without any opposing point of view or comment. If the Sci-fi
 >channel is out to sabotage and destroy the credibility of all of
 >ufology, this first concerted attack was as destructive as any.
 >As damaging as anyone could _intentionally_ put together.

<snip>

 >John Velez
 >Pissed

A resounding Amen!, John.

Ray Stanford
Crapped!








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                   Re: Filer's Files #15 -- 2003 - Gehrman

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 09:25:40 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 16:02:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #15 -- 2003 - Gehrman


 >From: James Oberg <jamesoberg@houston.rr.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 10:38:51 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Filer's Files #15 -- 2003

 >>From: Gary Alevy <galevy@pipeline.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDate <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 01:15:15 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: Filer's Files #15 -- 2003

 >>I would think that your great propagandistic skills would be of
 >>much more service to the nation over on the Usenet newsgroups,
 >>e.g. sci.space.shuttle, Sci.space.policy than here killing UFO
 >>ants with Obergian shovels.

 >Thanks for the upbeat advice, and acknowledgement that Filer's
 >material is -- in this case -- unworthy of belief.

James,

You are correct; it was Von Braun, not Oberth who should be
credited with the quote:

According to UFO authors Brad Steiger and Joan Whritenour, von
Braun told West German newspapers that a 1958 malfunction of a
US Juno II rocket had been "deflected" off-course by an unnamed
and presumably extraterrestrial source. The following year he
elaborated to Neues Europa that "we find ourselves faced by
powers which are far stronger than we had hitherto assumed, and
whose base of operations is at present unknown to us. More I
cannot say at present. We are now engaged in entering into
closer contact with these powers and in six or nine months' time
it may be possible to speak with more precision on this matter."
[10]

http://www.disinfo.com/pages/article/id900/pg2/

10] Brad Steiger and Joan Whritenour. Flying Saucers Are
Hostile, New York: Universal Publishing and Distributing
Corporation (Tandem), 1967, p 68.

But Oberth did make other UFO statements such as the folowing:

Dr. Herman Oberth, the father of modern rocketry, is quoted as
saying in 1954, "UFOs are conceived and directed by intelligent
beings of a very high order, and they are propelled by
distorting the gravitational field, converting gravity into
useable energy. There is no doubt in my mind that these objects
are interplanetary craft of some sort. I and my colleagues are
confident that they do not originate in our solar system, but we
feel that they may use Mars or some other body as sort of a way
station. They probably do not originate in our solar system,
perhaps not even in our galaxy."

Years later he was quoted as saying, "We cannot take the credit
for our record advancement in certain scientific fields alone.
We have been helped." When asked by whom, he replied, "The
people of other worlds."

http://www.rense.com/ufo/famousquotes.htm

Perhaps you could comment?

Ed





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                          RSecrecy News -- 04/16/03

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 12:18:48 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 16:04:09 -0400
Subject: RSecrecy News -- 04/16/03


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2003, Issue No. 33
April 16, 2003


**      CRS ON "SENSITIVE BUT UNCLASSIFIED"
**      SUNSHINE IN IRAQ RECONSTRUCTION
**      ISRAELI SPECIAL OPERATIONS UNIT PROFILED
**      SEARCHING FOR NOAH'S ARK


CRS ON "SENSITIVE BUT UNCLASSIFIED"

One of the more challenging developments in government
information policy is the renewed emphasis on so-called
"sensitive but unclassified" (SBU) information.  This refers to
information that is normally withheld from public disclosure but
which can be shared throughout the government without the burden
of formal classification procedures.

While the notion of SBU is responsive to the imperative of
improving information sharing within government, it is
troublesome from a public access point of view because it lends
itself to indiscriminate withholding.  This is particularly
problematic in an Administration that is predisposed to official
secrecy.

The challenges posed by SBU are examined in an impressive new
report from the Congressional Research Service by CRS analyst
Genevieve J. Knezo.

Ms. Knezo traces the genealogy of SBU as far back as a 1977
Presidential Directive that used the term "unclassified, but
sensitive" and up to the present day.  She examines ambiguities
in the definition of SBU and how it has been employed
differently by different agencies.  She explains why the concept
has been criticized over the years, and by whom. And she lays
out a spectrum of policy options for addressing concerns about
the use of SBU.

The 48 page report, which is abundantly footnoted to diverse
source documents, is the best work on the topic to date.

See "'Sensitive But Unclassified' and Other Federal Security
Controls on Scientific and Technical Information: History and
Current Controversy" by Genevieve J. Knezo, Congressional
Research Service, April 2:

http://www.fas.org/irp/crs/RL31845.pdf


SUNSHINE IN IRAQ RECONSTRUCTION

There has been an unseemly tendency in the Bush Administration
to award contracts for Iraq reconstruction on a sole-source
basis, i.e. without a competitive bidding process.  The
contracts themselves are occasionally classified.

To correct this offensive practice Sen. Ron Wyden, along with
Senators Collins, Clinton, Byrd and Lieberman, introduced the
"Sunshine in Iraq Reconstruction Contracting Act" (S. 876).

"Contracts to rebuild Iraq should be awarded in the sunshine--
  not behind a smokescreen," said Sen. Wyden.  He explained the
problem with "closed-door contracting," and described his
proposed solution, in an April 10 floor speech introducing the
bill.  See:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2003_cr/s876.html


ISRAELI SPECIAL OPERATIONS UNIT PROFILED

The counterterrorism operations of Israel's internal security
service known as the Shin Bet were profiled in a lengthy feature
in the Israeli newspaper Ma'ariv on April 11.

The article, which was subject to military censorship,
nevertheless provides the kind of first-hand operational detail
that is not readily available elsewhere, and is presented in an
engaging way.  ("If you are discovered in the casbah, no one
will come to your rescue.")

See "Missions of Shin Bet Special Operations Unit Viewed" from
an article by Amit Navon, Ma'ariv, April 11, translated by the
Foreign Broadcast Information Service:

http://www.fas.org/irp/world/israel/shin_bet/specops.html


SEARCHING FOR NOAH'S ARK

The Washington Times' Insight Magazine has published an update
of its inconclusive Freedom of Information Act "investigation"
into the presumed location of remnants of Noah's Ark on Turkey's
Mount Ararat, which is predicated on a reference in Genesis 8:4
("And the ark rested ... upon the mountains of Ararat").

The CIA released some records under the FOIA, but the Agency has
"claimed" that it has no spy satellite photographs of the Mount
Ararat site, Insight reported archly.  Other records may be held
by the Navy.

While anyone is free to use the FOIA to ask for anything, anyone
else is free to criticize the legal hijacking of the FOIA
process to pursue a private obsession.  That seems to be the
case here.

See "Update: Noah's Ark Investigation" by Timothy W. Maier,
Insight, posted April 15:

http://www.insightmag.com/news/417077.html

New archeological data indicates that biblical texts may not be
inconsistent with the historical record in every respect. Carbon
dating links a site in northern Israel to an invasion by the
Egyptian Pharoah Shoshenq I around 925 BCE.  He appears as
"Shishak" in I Kings 14:25-26 and II Chronicles 12:3-4.

See "Carbon-14 Dates from Tel Rehov: Iron-Age Chronology,
Pharaohs, and Hebrew Kings" by Hendrik J. Bruins, Johannes van
der Plicht, and Amihai Mazar in Science, April 11, 2003, pp.
315-318 (not available online to non-subscribers).




_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood@fas.org
voice:  (202) 454-4691






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                    Re: Sci-Fi's Blitzkreig of UFO Lies &

From: Paul Kimball <Kimballwood@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 13:36:10 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 16:06:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Sci-Fi's Blitzkreig of UFO Lies &


 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 11:10:19 -0400
 >Subject: Sci-Fi's Blitzkrieg Of UFO Lies And Dis-Information

<snip>

 >Paul, I'm looking forward to your documentary on MJ-12. I trust
 >we'll get a much more balanced presentation and review than that
 >abortion that was aired on the Sci-Fi channel last night.

John:

I always strive for balance. Whether one achieves it or not is,
in the final analysis, in the eyes of the beholder. Rest assured
that I have not made my mind up about MJ-12, and that I will be
seeking out both sides of the argument. I intend to put the info
and views on the table, and let the viewer make up their own
mind.

As an aside that may amuse or infuriate - in Canada, most
funding for film and television comes from the federal and
provincial governments. We producers have to apply for that
money - its a very competitive process. One of the criteria for
the Canadian Television Fund (the federal agency) is that the
film has to be about subject matter that is relevant to
Canadians. Chris Rutkowski, Stan Friedman, Don Ledger et al may
be interested to know that the fedeal government has just
rejected our application for funding for "Do You Believe in
Majic?" on the grounds that the topic of UFOs does not meet the
relevancy test.

I am appealing that decision. The film will go on regardless.


Best regards,

Paul Kimball
www.redstafilm.com








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                    Re: Sci-Fi's Blitzkrieg Of UFO Lies &

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 13:48:10 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 16:09:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Sci-Fi's Blitzkrieg Of UFO Lies &


 >From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 11:11:13 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Sci-Fi's Blitzkrieg Of UFO Lies & Dis-Information

 >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 11:10:19 -0400
 >>Subject: Sci-Fi's Blitzkrieg Of UFO Lies And Dis-Information

 >>The entire three-hours of SciFi's 'UFO' programming last night
 >>was a complete abortion. A collection of the very worst in
 >>ufology. If it was 'fringy' or 'out there' it made it into the
 >>programs. No mention at all of _any_ serious research or
 >>researchers. They avoided mentioning anything serious or
 >>credible assiduously.

 >I'm assuming that you meant "aberration" but perhaps "abortion"
 >is fitting. Much of that pap should be aborted as it doesn't
 >help, and often hurts, true ufological studies.

 >They don't call it the Sci-Fi channel for nothing.

Terry, John, Ray, et al-

I wholeheartedly agree that the programs aired last night by the
Sci-Fi Channel as "Non-Fiction" would seem to indicate that they
don't have a good grasp of what that means.

I found the first hour on abductions to be yet one more series
of annecdotal abduction tales by individuals who honestly
believe they've been touched by the pheonomonon. Perhaps they
have, but certainly the presentation last night wasn't designed
to prove it, one way or the other.

The second hour, Alien Gods, I found to be interesting from a
sociological perspective, but had little to do with a scientific
quest to identify unknown craft in our skies. I did not get the
impression that the Sci-Fi Channel was presenting this as fact,
or trying to convince the audience that this was true. Perhaps
it's important that we understand that these groups exist and
have some understanding of their beliefs. Whether we like it or
not, they help to define us in the eyes of those who not
familiar with the genre.

The third hour was self-promotion by Wood and Wood LLC, which
allowed them an hour of air time to promote their theories and
as a result, their publications. One should perhaps question who
paid who for the air time..... <g>.

Just think... this was the beginning of a weekly series of
programs, and next Tuesday it doesn't involve UFOs or
abductions:

7PM: Ghost Stories
8PM: California's Most Haunted
9PM: An Unknown Encounter

All this being said, I think it's important to keep this in
perspective. The programs that aired last night were apparently
"in the can" for a while, and were certainly selected for their
entertainment value and not the veracity of the information they
contained. After all, as others have pointed out many times,
the Sci-Fi Channel is in the business to entertain.

The question of whether or not researchers should work with the
network has been raised both publicly and privately, and the
programming last night has re-ignited that question. IMO, the
field must be very careful to distance itself from this type of
programming (even though it can't seem to distance itself from
some of the "researchers" who appeared on the shows last night).
On the other hand, such programming will be produced whether
good researchers are involved or not, and perhaps it's better
that they at least have access to more credible information in
hopes that they'll use it. The alturnative is to ignore them in
hopes that they'll go away, and that just isn't going to happen
as long as UFOs make for good entertainment.


Steve







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                  Re: Media Notice - 'The Secret' - Kimball

From: Paul Kimball <Kimballwood@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 13:48:48 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 16:11:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Media Notice - 'The Secret' - Kimball


 >From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 10:50:42 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Media Notice - 'The Secret'

 >>From: Paul Kimball <Kimballwood@aol.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 20:30:01 EDT
 >>Subject: Re: Media Notice - 'The Secret'

 >>>From: Stephen G. Bassett <ParadigmRG@aol.com>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 17:24:30 -0400
 >>>Subject: PRG Media Notice - 'The Secret'

Jan:

<snip>

 >Paul,

 >Even-handed? Balanced? Excuse me for skepticism. but your list
 >of names does not seem much different for Sci-Fi's. Perhaps you
 >should talk to Tim Good about MJ-12 documents and Cooper's
 >typewriter.

I intend to talk to all sorts of people, from both sides. The
ones listed in my original post (Dolan, Friedman, Maccabee,
Pflock and Greenwald) are merely the ones I've had a chance to
talk to already, while in New Mexico a couple of weeks ago for
the wonderful Aztec Symposium.

 >Perhaps you should look at U. F. O. Historical Revue #3 at

 >http://www.cufon.org

Already have.

 >Perhaps you should review how these documents came into ufology
 >and the other "documents" which came with them which are no
 >longer discussed.

Part of the plan.

 >Nah, that would just get in the way of a good story.

A good story and the truth are not mutually exclusive. If the
documents are real, it's a great story; if they're a hoax,
that's still a great story. Either way, it's an important story.

 >Forget I mentioned it. Much better to not to have negatives in
 >such an enterprise.

Somebody obviously got up on the wrong side of the bed today.

 >Have to run, I am going out to meet P. T. Barnum for a drink.

Say hello.

Seriously, though, if you - or anyone out there - have
suggestions as to where you think we might want to head in our
research, let me know. You might not think we take this stuff
seriously, or that we will be objective - on what evidence you
may have drawn those conclusions I have no idea - but I can
assure you that we do.

Best regards,

Paul Kimball
www.redstarfilm.com









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                Re: Re: Media Notice - 'The Secret' - Warren

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren@pacbell.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 10:47:34 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 16:13:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Re: Media Notice - 'The Secret' - Warren


Hello All,

Kudos to the Wood's for a "well presented, and most informative
program."  Sci-Fi's decision to lump "The Secret" in with the
two previous programs that aired before it, however, was not a
wise move in my opinion . Yes, I am biased, and yes the Wood's
of course are proponents of the authenticity of the "MJ-12
documents," and dare I say it, "it shows!" You know what though,
I don't care! The "bias" that is usually broadcast in UFO
documentaries goes the other direction, and the one's that seem
to offer a "pro stance" are wrapped in smoke and mirrors and
"spooky music." I felt "The Secret" was a breath of fresh air in
comparison to what I've watched on the "History Channel" lately.

For the critics and skeptics that feel the Wood's have broken
some "unwritten rule" in making a documentary, it's obvious that
they did not set out to "debate" the subject. Personally I don't
have a problem with that. I felt that they stated their position
clearly, and supported it with the documents themselves, as well
as explaining the authentication process along with commentary
from the guests that appeared on the show. I might point out
however, that all throughout the show, the guests from Michael
Lindemann to Stan Friedman were always careful to put an "if" in
the sentence in regards to the authenticity of the documents,
and made it clear when they were stating their own opinions.
Pflock, who commented on the abundance of evidence in support of
the UFO phenomenon, pointed that the authenticity of the MJ-12
docs was a separate matter.

I personally enjoyed the old footage of Major Donald Keyhoe, the
infamous broadcast of Major General Samford as well as the shots
of the Enola Gay.

Regardless of our independent views of the program, I believe
the end result will have the "layperson" asking intelligent
questions, and to that end I applaud the Wood's efforts!


Respectfully,

Frank Warren









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                 Re: Media Notice - 'The Secret' - Friedman

From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 16:54:22 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 16:27:39 -0400
Subject: Re:  Media Notice - 'The Secret' - Friedman


 >From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 10:50:42 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Media Notice - 'The Secret'

 >>From: Paul Kimball <Kimballwood@aol.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 20:30:01 EDT
 >>Subject: Re: Media Notice - 'The Secret'

 >>>From: Stephen G. Bassett <ParadigmRG@aol.com>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 17:24:30 -0400
 >>>Subject: PRG Media Notice - 'The Secret'

 >><snip>

 >>>'The Secret' To Air Tonight on the Sci-Fi Channel in USA
 >>>April 15, 2003

 >><snip>

 >>>The program was produced by the father and son team of Robert
 >>>and Ryan Wood, edited by iO Productions of Los Angeles
 >>>(www.ioproductions.com), and syndicated with Cinamour
 >>>Entertainment (www.cinamour.com).

 >>>"We are excited about The Secret because of its unique
 >>>perspective in the UFO genre. Besides being an outstanding
 >>>documentary, the program covers new ground with a hard look at
 >>>the Majestic 12 documents and their authenticity from multiple
 >>>expert perspectives," said Ryan Wood, Executive Producer.

 >>>The Secret presents the story of how "leaked" government
 >>>documents prove that t he United States has been recovering
 >>>crashed unidentified flying objects, often known as flying
 >>>saucers, since 1941, and has been successful in keeping this
 >>>information from the public. These documents have been examined
 >>>using forensic techniques and are declared genuine by those who
 >>>examine the subtleties of paper, ink age, watermark, type fonts,
 >>>classification stamps and markings. The central basis of the
 >>>show is the content nof the documents and the amazing story they
 >>>tell a different approach.

 >>>The public is hungry for genuine UFO information, and they are
 >>>not getting it from the governments of the world. This program
 >>>is not a rehash of the old Roswell crash scenarios, providing
 >>>evidence that the first U.S. crash was in Missouri in 1941. A
 >>>short interview with one of the principal sources of this
 >>>Missouri crash retrieval can be viewed at:

 >>>www.majesticdocuments.com/documentary.html

 >>>Not only does this show have some distinguished advocates taking
 >>>compelling supportive positions, such as Astronaut Ed Mitche ll,
 >>>and researchers Stanton Friedman, Timothy Good, and Michael
 >>>Lindemann, but some dissenting views are included from skeptical
 >>>corners.

 ><snip>

 >>Given that the film was produced by two of the biggest
 >>proponents of the veracity of the documents, that's hardly
 >>surprising, but to suggest that the film is even-handed (I can
 >>see certain Listers cringing at the mention of the term "even-
 >>handed") is disingenuous. A better way of putting it would have
 >>been "Longtime MJ-12 proponents Robert and Ryan Wood make their
 >>case", which, on its own terms, would have been fine. But let's
 >>not pretend it's an independent, objective documentary.

 >>Majestic-12 is a subject crying out for a major, balanced
 >>(cringe again) documentary, where both sides of this very
 >>controversial subject receive a full and fair airing, and the
 >>viewer can make an informed judgment. Unfortunately, in this
 >>regard, The Secret doesn't hit the mark.

 >Paul,

 >Even-handed? Balanced? Excuse me for skepticism. but your list
 >of names does not seem much different for Sci-Fi's. Perhaps you
 >should talk to Tim Good about MJ-12 documents and Cooper's
 >typewriter.

 >Perhaps you should look at U. F. O. Historical Revue #3 at

 >http://www.cufon.org

The above referenced article by Barry Greenwood has a lot of
information. However, it is quite misleading for it to be
referenced and not my much more recent 9000 word review of Kevin
Randles "Case MJ-12" (January 2003 and now on my website www.v-
j-enterprises.com/sfpage.html) which deals with a host of the
objections to MJ-12.. none of which stand up. Equally useful,
for those interested in a balanced review of the controversy,
would be my MUFON 2000 paper "Roswell and the MJ-12 Documents
in the New Millennium".I demonstrate that a number of the Tim
Cooper documents are emulations of other documents by presenting
the originals for comparison. But why act as though all the
documents came from Tim Cooper? They didn't. I could find no
reason to accept any of them, but many reasons for accepting the
EBE, TF, CT memos. Guilt by association (if any MJ-12 documents
is a fraud, all are???) is hardly science especially considering
the several different sources involved.

We in Canada don't get the US Sci-Fi Channel. But I did see (and
was in) The Secret a few months back. My negative comments about
the Tim Cooper documents were not included. But frankly bias is
a two headed sword. Many of the opponents have been just as one
sided.


 >Perhaps you should review how these documents came into ufology
 >and the other "documents" which came with them which are no
 >longer discussed.

 >Nah, that would just get in the way of a good story.

 >Forget I mentioned it. Much better to not to have negatives in
 >such an enterprise.

 >Have to run, I am going out to meet P. T. Barnum for a drink.

 >Later.


Yes, there has been much bunk published about the Majestic 12
documents as I point out in the above referenced papers and
several others.But research by proclamation is hardly a
substitute for research by investigation, on both sides of the
fence.As a matter of fact, several claims made by the Archives,
as noted by Barry Greenwood in his article, were changed after I
pointed out the errors by providing factual materials.They
reissued their corrected list.. which seems to be ignored by the
critics who would prefer to believe them. I am still looking for
admission that not all TOP SECRET Documents had registration
numbers and that TOP SECRET RESTRICTED was a valid security
marking. I won't hold my breath.

Stan Friedman,
POB 958, Houlton,
ME 04730-0958

and

79 Pembroke Crescent,
Fredericton,
NB Canada E3B 2V1

fsphys@rogers.com

www.v-j-enterprises.com/sfpage.html
506-457-0232








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   Apr > Apr 16

                          Filer's Files #16 -- 2003

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 17:23:25 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 18:44:54 -0400
Subject: Filer's Files #16 -- 2003


Filer's Files #16 -- 2003 Skywatch Investigations.
George A. Filer, Director Mutual UFO Network Eastern
April 16, 2003
Majorstar@aol.com Webmaster: Chuck Warren
My website is at: http://www.georgefiler.com

Sponsored by: http://www.filer.unfranchise.com


WORLDWIDE UFO SIGHTINGS CONTINUE BUT SLOW IN US

The purpose of these files is to report the UFO eyewitness and
photo/video evidence that occurs on a daily basis around the
world and in space. UFOs reported over Iraq. Dr. Herman Oberth
the Father of the Space Age says UFOs exist, Russian Pravda
reveals attacks on UFOs and Soviet KGB UFO Research Centers,
Maryland - blinking lights, Florida - Marine has missing time,
Ohio - amazing photographs, Texas - miniature UFO saucer flies
up to witness, Canadian - newspaper article about Brian Vike
says and UFOs, Columbia - UFOs seen by eighty witnesses,
Argentina cattle mutilations return, England - blue sphere
crashes toward earth, New Zealand disc with colored lights, and
UFO Disclosure survey results poll

THE MAJOR FIGHTING IS OVER IN IRAQ AFTER UFOs SEEN

NAJAF -- According to Joseph Trainor editro of UFO Roundup, on
March 27, 2003, an oblong luminous UFO hovered over the holy
city of Najaf located about 60 miles south of Baghdad not far
from the ancient city of Babylon. A photo showing the unknown
object, with a G.I. of the 3rd Brigade, 101st Airborne Division
pointing at it with his forefinger, appeared in the newspaper
Euronews. UFO Roundup correspondent Mohammed Hajj al-Amdar
stated, "The UFO's appearance caused great excitement among the
Shiites who saw it. They said it had come from Allah's Gardens
of Bliss to protect the Tomb of Ali." Najaf is a holy city to
Shiite Muslims because of the golden-domed mosque that stands
over the grave of Ali, the son-in-law of the prophet Mohammed.
Babylon and ancient Babylonia are located in present day Iraq.
The looting of the museums is a great tragedy and every effort
should be made to recover the lost artifacts..

Did God help Coalition forces win a stunning three week victory?
The last book of the Bible predicted the fall of Babylon. After
this I saw another angel coming down from heaven. He had great
authority and the earth was illuminated by his splendor. With a
mighty voice he shouted: "Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great!
It has become a home for demons, a haunt for every evil spirit,
a haunt for every foul and hateful bird; for all the nations
have drunk the wine of her impure passion." Revelation 18.

On Sunday, April 6, 2003, UFO Roundup reports that about 1 AM,
Baghdad time, five cylindrical UFOs were seen hovering over the
Khulfafa mosque in the Shebab district, on the east bank of the
Tigris River. The faintly luminous cylinders were "caught by a
fixed, night-vision camera" and aired live on FOX TV(which would
have been 4 PM, April 5, 2003 in the USA- Thanks to Joseph
Trainor- Volume 8, #16, April 16, 2003.)

Jerry Rowles MUFON Washington writes, "Sometimes I do trust God
has His hand directly in human affairs and provided God's speed
and protection to our troops. jblackwe@apci.net writes: "When
things didn't seem to be going well, mom would say, "It's an ill
wind that blows no good." Well, this story tells how an ill wind
blew a lot of good! I am sure that all of you heard about the
sandstorm in Iraq Tuesday and Wednesday (the worst in 100 years
some say) and the drenching rain that followed the next day. Our
troops were bogged down and couldn't move effectively. The media
was already wondering if the troops were in a "quagmire" and
dire predictions of gloom and doom came from the left wing
media. What they didn't report was that yesterday, after the
weather had cleared, the Marine group that was mired the worst
looked out at the plain they were just about to cross. What did
they see? Hundreds if not thousands of anti-tank and anti-
personnel mines had been uncovered by the wind and then washed
off by the rain. If they had proceeded as planned, no doubt,
many lives would have been lost. As it was, they simply drove
around the mine fields and let the demolition teams destroy
them." Thanks to Jerry Rowles

DR HERMAN OBERTH FATHER OF SPACE AGE SAYS UFOs EXIST

Editor's Correction: Last week, I gave a quote attributed to
Professor Oberth, stating "We find ourselves faced by powers
which are far stronger than we had hitherto assumed, and whose
base is at present is unknown to us..." Although he said
something similar to this in an interview with MUFON's Antonio
Huneeus, I was unable to reach Antonio to verify the exact
quote. Therefore, I stand corrected, however, Oberth
specifically stated for publication, "It is my thesis that
flying saucers are real and that they are space ships from
another solar system. I think that they possibly are manned by
intelligent observers who are members of a race that may have
been investigating our earth for centuries. I think that they
possibly have been sent out to conduct systematic, long-range
investigations, fir of men, animals, vegetation and more
recently of atomic centers, armaments and centers of armament
production" "Flying Saucers Come from a Distant World" The
American Weekly, October 24, 1954.

In Paris Flammond's book, "UFO Exist!" Oberth is quoted as
saying, "These objects (UFO) are conceived and directed by
intelligent beings of a very high order. They do not originate
in our solar system, perhaps not in our galaxy." From a Press
Conference in Innsbruck, Austria June 1954.

Ole Henningsen writes from Denmark, "Professor Hermann Oberth
was a strong believer in UFOs =3D spaceships and he attended UFO-
conferences and held lectures about his belief. I personally
heard two of his lectures, one in 1966, in Denmark arranged by
SUFOI, and one in Germany in 1967, arranged by Karl L. Veit.
Close to Nueremberg, Germany, there is a museum devoted to him
and his "rocket-life". According to my files, Hermann Oberth
stated (translated from his Danish lecture manuscript dated May
1, 1966): "Regarding the UFOs, there is only one explanation,
which until now has not been refuted, namely the Major Keyhoe-
hypothesis, that UFOs are spaceships from other planets." But he
always in his lectures strongly supported a scientific approach
to the UFO-phenomenon. His first appearance with an UFO-lecture
was at the DUIST- conference in Wiesbaden, Germany, in 1960, as
far as I know. Mr. Karl L. Veit from the German organization
DUIST used in some way Hermann Oberth and his celebrity to
promote DUIST and UFO-Nachrichten. Oberth appeared in more
DUIST-conferences during the sixties. I had a short
correspondence with Hermann Oberth in 1987. He answered my
question, but he also told that due to his age and weakness he
was not any more able to devote any time to UFOs.

He died on December 29, 1989, at the age of 95. His most widely
recognized contribution to space-travel was his book published
in 1923, "The Rocket into Planetary Space." He later on
published books on other topics. Hermann Oberth joined the
Wernher von Braun-team at the V-2 rocket complex in Peenem=FCnde,
Germany, during WW II, and thereafter the U. S. Army's Ballistic
Missile Agency in Huntsville, Alabama. A short period Von Braun
was his assistant during the 1930's. Oberth retired in 1958 to
the town of Feucht, in Germany. I visited his museum:
http://www.oberth-museum.org/museum_e.htm. Thanks to Ole
Henningsen SUFOI Denmark

PRAVDA REVEALS ATTACKS ON UFOs AND KGB RESEARCH

In the April 1, edition of Pravda, Russian journalist Dimitri
Sudakov claims that the attacks mounted by the military against
UFOs are always unfruitful. In his article, UFOs Impossible,
Sudakov reviews at least five real and documented incidents of
attacks by military aircraft against UFOs, where they suffered
no known damage. The journalist indicates that the first
incident took place in October of 1944 in Europe. US Air Force
pilots encountered several ball-like UFOs in the airspace.
Pilots decided that they saw new secret Nazi weapon, which was
rumored a lot back in those days. Americans opened fire on those
balls, although no bullet managed to cause any damage to them.
Sudakov offers in its article concrete evidence that guarantee
the reality of these facts, including the commission opened by
Sir Winston Churchill in England in 1952 to investigate to the
UFOs. Apparently, he was worried because no military weapons
could damage the extraterrestrial craft.

Pravda also reports the KGB ordered 4 million soldiers to watch
the sky in search of UFOs until the dissolution of the KGB and
the Soviet Union in 1990.. Yuri Andropov, leader of the Ex-
Soviet Union's KGB showed an acute interest in the UFO and
ordered the creation of a program that lasted 13 years that
forced each soldier to monitor the Russian sky in search of
sightings. Igor Sinitsin, who worked with Andropov for six years
in the Politburo, revealed that the Soviet leader maintained a
file on the UFOs in his daily agenda. Sinitsin added that the
KGB controlled what was published on this subject in many other
countries. Both military and civilian UFO research centers were
created under the direction of the KGB. Thanks to:
http://english.pravda.ru/society/2003/04/01/45389.html

MARYLAND BLINKING LIGHTS

BALTIMORE -- The witness reports, "I was driving home from the
night club where I work on April 3, 2003, at about 3:05 AM, when
I saw lights coming towards me from an unusual direction." As I
exited unto I 695 east and drove east for two miles the object
which looked like dull white car headlights hovered. As I
approached the Francis Scott Key Bridge, I also saw two
pulsating smaller white lights blinking on opposite sides. There
was no sound coming from the object and the smaller light next
to the road was only 30 feet off the ground. As I slowed my
truck to get a closer look the lights were in a round pattern.
The object was just to my right over Fort Smallwood and 200 feet
high. As I slowly approached the bridge the still stationary
object disappeared from my sight as I went unto the bridge and
when I got to the other side of the bridge the object had
disappeared. This object was not moving and didn't make any
sound. I never have been scared of visible lights like this
before especially for me to pull over close to underneath the
object and get a closer look. Thanks to Peter Davenport [
http://www.nuforc.org/ ]www.UFOCENTER.com

GEORGIA STRANGE LIGHTS IN THE CAR

MERIWETHER COUNTY -- On Sunday, April 13, 2003, my brother and
his wife were driving in my Ford Explorer on a Highway 41. We
left the town of Warm Springs, and headed northwest to
Greenville on a two lane road that is very isolated rural road.
At the "blink of an eye," a hoard of bright red lights
manifested inside my SUV. I panicked initially, and slowed my
speed to around 30 miles per hour. I felt some sense of security
as I had two passengers with me. My sister-in-law yelled out,
"Pull over, are those police lights?" There was no police car
and no other activity. It was 9:15 PM, there were hundreds of
extremely erratic small red strobing lights. Some had short
laser-like beam qualities as might be seen in some high-end
disco club. All three of us announced we were all experiencing
this event. I felt this was not of this World! My sister-in-law
was in a panorama of bright red lights, in the back seat, but
none of the lights were in the trunk area. The same lights were
on my brorther's feet and legs, the floor board was a hue of
red. I looked out the window and over the dash board onto the
hood and did not see any activity outside. This event lasted
about 20 seconds and ceased, as quick as the onset, when a
vehicle appeared in the distance. Thanks to Peter Davenport [
http://www.nuforc.org/ ]www.UFOCENTER.com

FLORIDA MARINE HAS MISSING TIME

MIAMI-- John Burch writes, I served in the Seventh Marines in
Korea and when I returned to the US, I had guard duty for
President Truman. They don't let crazy people stand next to
President with a loaded 45 revolver on his hip, so here is my
story.

"In October of 1952, I was on liberty in Miami and was sitting
on the lawn swing with my girl friend about 9 PM in her
backyard. Not more than five minutes passed when I had the
feeling that I had blinked out, and was back on the swing in a
millisecond. As I sat wondering I realized our conversation had
suddenly stopped and above our heads something was starting to
illuminate. About six hundred feet above us was a disk shaped
craft the size of a dish plate at arm's length. It was
motionless, but the perimeter was illuminated by a faint blue
light that appeared to come from the top center. The light
started to brighten as if turned by a rheostat. As the light
around the perimeter brightened the craft started to slowly
rotate up to the southwest and as it rotated the light glow was
changing from blue to a bright orange red. The glow of the light
was like a source of energy as opposed to illumination. It sat
motionless for about ten seconds than shot into the sky and
disappeared among the stars in a split second. I couldn't

While I tried to grasp the wonder of what just happened, my
girlfriend started crying hysterically and jumped out of the
swing. She cried, "We just saw a flying saucer!" She insisted we
call the Miami Herald to report it, but their were not other
reports. Just then her parents came home and we told them the
story. They acted like I had drugged their daughter, and looking
at the clock they suggested I leave, because it was after
midnight. We had three hours of unexplained missing time. I was
a confused young man because I know we had been on the swing for
just five minutes. I retired in 1988, and have had six sightings
since then. Thanks to John Burch, JonJon@cyberstreet.com

OHIO - AMAZING PHOTOGRAPHS

During the last several years, George W. Ritter has taken
numerous photographs of various types of flying cigars, saucers
and strange looking craft. These are almost always moving at
high speed and difficult to determine their exact size and
dimensions. Similar vehicles have been captured on video
indicating the UFOs are moving at tremendous speed. The
foreground remains in focus indicating this is not caused by
camera movement. Photos can be seen in views: [
http://www.nationalufocenter.com/files/2002/index.php ]Filer's
Files UFO Center Views

TEXAS - MINIATURE FLYING SAUCER

COLLEGE STATION -- Erik writes, "I had a UFO encounter in 1965,
with a flying saucer that was only 18 inches wide and a few
inches high. I saw it flying over a field of grain near the New
Braunsfels River. I was near a field with many steers and was
not too far from Texas A & M. University. The saucer was flying
over the grasses and came toward me and then stopped abruptly
only two feet from me. I stood there stupefied in awe. I tried
to grab it sneakily, but it sensed my intention within a second
or more of my attempt and took off like a shot and left the
area. Thanks to Erik Ekstrom.

CALIFORNIA UFO SIGHTINGS

SACRAMENTO -- Hi, my name is Spencer and I had a UFO sighting on
January 14, 2002 at 7:01 PM, on the Garden Highway going to a
King's game. The shape of the ship was an acute triangle moving
about 20 MPH. It had four lights, one on each corner and one big
blue one in the center. Thanks to Spencer

LOS ALAMOS -- The witness reports seeing two F-16's pursue a
cigar-shaped object in the skies over Los Alamos, on April 5,
2003, at 12:15 PM. The witness says, "I was outside when I heard
the roar of jet engines from Vandenberg Air Force Base, but
these were unusually loud. I looked up and saw two low and fast
flying F-16's in pursuit of a small cigar-shaped object that was
ahead of them by about 500 feet. I watched as they continued to
chase the object until they went over the mountains. Thanks to
Peter Davenport [ http://www.nuforc.org/ ]www.UFOCENTER.com

CANADA HIWAY 16 MAGAZINE ARTICLE ABOUT BRIAN VIKE

BRITISH COLUMBIA -- He's not weird and he does not sleep with a
tinfoil cap on his head, although some of his friends do cower
and point to the sky when they see him. Houston resident, Brian
Vike began his interstellar interest as an amateur astronomer,
an attraction that would lead him to become one of B.C.'s
leading Ufologists. Today he is the Director of HBCC UFO
Research. He is a weekly guest on radio talk shows across North
America, has been filmed and interviewed for Canada's Life
Network and has been contacted by CBC TV for a future interview.
Retiring from a job at the local Houston mill due to a back
injury in 1982, Brian found himself with lots of spare time on
his hands. Three years ago, he decided to create a web page, one
that expressed his own curiosity about unsolved mysteries in the
world. The site includes pictur strange events he wants to share
with others and encouraged people to call with their stories.
Good timing for Brian. In 2002 Houston became a virtual
"interstellar hotbed" of unexplained bright, moving lights,
large, hovering "disk or cigar-shaped objects" and over one
hundred witnesses willing to report their experiences. It was a
record number of sightings, putting Houston B.C. in 4th place on
the Canadian UFO Survey's Top Ten list. There were 483 sightings
for all of Canada, with 173 of those in B.C., and 100 of those
just from the North. Brian tells me, "B.C. usually is the hot
spot every year." Heads up, I say! As a volunteer field
investigator, Brian receives calls at his home in Houston. He
keeps a list of quick questions beside his phone to ask the
caller. Size, altitude, flight directions, color, sound,
distance, an couple in Smithers reported 2 objects floating over
Hudson Bay Mountain, Brian used the computer program Heavens
Above to discover that what they saw were planets. "They said
they felt stupid," says Brian," but I told them, 'Oh, no! This
is great. We've solved something here'."
http://www.hiway16.com/magazine2/pages/Debi/ExTerr/ExTerr1.htm

HOUSTON --Brian Vike writes, "Boy do I have a case in my hot
little hands. I received a large parcel today in the postal
mail. This looks like a possible abduction case. Or from what I
have here, it is 95 pages of documented goodies. Plus samples of
clothing to be tested. I think this could be one of the biggest
cases I have had yet!

TERRACE -- A witness contacted Brian saying, "When I read the
Terrace Standard Newspaper April 2, 2003, on an article called:
Was there a mass UFO sighting?, I said to myself that is what I
saw. In the middle of March 2003 between 7:30 PM and 8:00 PM, I
was out in my backyard and saw this bright glowing object moving
around in a fast downward movement. The object was falling
between the backyards of 4800 Block Tuck Ave. or McConnell
Avenue. It was falling down fast like a shooting star or a
meteor and I was waiting to hear an explosion. I didn't hear
anything and read the article about the UFO sighting in the
Terrace Standard , I knew I saw something that night. It was
down low and glowing. Thanks to Brian Vike HBCC UFO Research
Editor: Canadian Communicator Toll Free Canadian UFO Hotline: 1-
866-262-1989 Email - hbccufo@telus.net,

COLUMBIA - UFOs SEEN BY EIGHTY WITNESSES

JUAICA MOUNTAIN -- Edgar Maple reports that during a UFO watch,
several UFOs of orange color were sighted in the Tabio region of
Cundinamarca. The Contact UFO Group made up of eighty people and
directed by investigator William Ch=E1ves saw UFOs during a watch
on Saturday, March 15, 2003, from the 22:45 to 00:20 hours. They
initially observed orange lights, then later from same location
smaller lights were caught on video magnetic tape. Minutes later
it was possible to observe small bluish lights like currents
rising from the ground. In a space of ten minutes smaller inner
lights changing form and size were seen. The eyewitnesses were
overwhelmed by the sight. Thanks to Edgar Maple.
earce@cable.net.co

ARGENTINA MUTILATIONS RETURN

CUCHILLO CO -- TV producer Francisco FAZIO, reports there are
many animals being mutilated in Cuchillo-Co, La Pampa. Some
farmers and producers of the town of Lihuel Calel are upset by
the repeated bovine animal mutilations on their farms. A young
producer who has her field near Provincial Route 13, says, "I
have had cattle mutilations since April 2002, right up to April
13, 2003, of this year without interruption." All Argentinean
provinces have cattle mutilations with the same characteristics.
=A8In 15 days I had six fat young black cows mutilated in a very
good field with last occuring on Tuesday only 500 meters from
the street and 4 kilometers from my house. On Friday, in General
Acha there were similar mutilations=A8. =A8They have perfect
cauterized cuts of the testicles and vagina=A8. =A8Its very strange
because there are strong shocks on the body, similar to a hot
fire=A8. =A8These are no natural disease causes, no dogs, no native
people of La Pampa, no mouses, or natural disease, causing this
economic damnation. Its a big problem, say the farmers=A8 By:
Francisco Fazio. ufoargentina@yahoo.com.ar Tel=E9fono:
00(54)(9)(2345)659644

ENGLAND - BLUE SPHERE CRASHES TOWARDS THE EARTH

LONDON -- Driving eastbound at 8 PM, on the 401 towards London
on April 4, 2003, the witness saw a blue sphere appear in the
sky, that accelerated towards the ground behind the treeline.
There was a visible blue streak which trailed the sphere that
appeared to crash. Following this, the area of the sky where the
object 'crashed' was illuminated in a blue light for several
seconds. It could very well have been some type of meteor, but
the fact that there was this blue light associated with the
object and the illumination of the sky made the event quite
strange. This event occurred during a barrage of freezing rain,
which hampered visibility. I seem to only remember two or three
other cars on the road at the time. Thanks to Peter Davenport [
http://www.nuforc.org/ ]www.UFOCENTER.com

BRIXHAM, DEVON -- We saw something weird over my sister's house
on April 5, 2003, while sitting outside drinking and chatting.
It was dark, but very clear at 9:20 PM. We were spotting planes
and satellites going over. I noticed something moving south - so
I said, "There's another one, but that's not a satellite," -- It
grew in brightness gradually over a period of ten seconds,
becoming brighter than Jupiter, which was also in the sky. This
phenomena lasted for five more seconds before it gradually faded
in brightness and shot upwards at great speed in a Star Trek
warp style. Andy, Charlie and Mother saw it too. Thanks to Nick
nickrdavies@btopenworld.com

NEW ZEALAND DISC WITH COLORED LIGHTS

GISBORNE CITY -- On Saturday April 12, 2003, Laurence Fleming
reports that around 11: 50 PM, there was occasional cloud cover.
My wife had been outside our home and spotted this object and
watched for about 15 minutes. The object displayed a red to
green, and yellow color pattern, alternating frequently to blue
as well. The object was very bright in appearance and hovered in
one particular part of the sky. My wife called me, and I grabbed
my new 10 X 50 binoculars focusing in on this very distinct
multi color light in the sky. I told her, "That thing's some
sort of craft". A spaceship or whatever was hovering in close
proximity, at low in altitude, with a very distinct shape. After
several minutes of observing this craft, it suddenly vanished
and then to our amazement, suddenly reappeared further away in
the sky in less than a second!! I haven't seen anything like
that before! There was something rotating on this object. The
craft eventually was lost from our vision by cloud cover.
Regards Laurence Fleming.


John Colaw -- Membership Director of Skywatch International
ended his survey poll April 9, 2003, contacting 740 participants
with interviews from 24 different news teams and radio shows
from all over the world, which helped keep the poll from being
skewed to only UFO lists. The results:

1) Have you ever seen a UFO?
    Yes (384) 53% No (191) 26% Possibly (147) 20%.

2) Do you know anyone who claims a UFO sighting?
    Yes (549) 76% No (171) 24%

3) Do you believe some UFO reports are extraterrestrial space
    vehicles?
    Yes (607) 85% No (111) 15%

4) Do you believe there is a UFO coverup within the US
    government?

Yes (588) 82% No (76) 11% Not sure (55) 8%

5) Have you read any books or magazines about UFOs?
    No (77) 11% One or Two (147) 20% Three or More (495) 69%

6} Do you believe all UFO reports are mistaken or hoaxed?
    Yes (79) 11% No (642) 89%

7) Do you believe in Angels?
    Yes (444) 63% No (261) 37%

8) Do you believe in Demons?
    Yes (365) 52% No (333) 48%

9) In your opinion, does the Bible mention UFOs?
    Yes (345) 48% No (99) 14% Possibly (223) 31%
    Probably not (48) 7%

10) Do you believe aliens are benevolent?
     Yes (47) 7% No (30) 4%

11) Do not believe in aliens (51) 7%
     Some good, some bad (363) 51%
     Not sure, but let's be careful (227) 32%

12) If UFOs and Aliens are visiting, should the public be told
     what governments know?
     Yes (587) 82% No (14) 2% Depends (116) 16%

13) Do you believe there is a connection between Aliens and
     Angels or Demons?
     Yes (176) 25% No (226) 32% Maybe (241) 34%

14) Do not believe they exist (73) 10% 14) Do you suspect you
     may have been abducted?
     Yes (154) 21% No (459) 64% Maybe (105) 15%

15) Do you want to know the truth regarding UFOs/Aliens?
     Yes (687) 95% No (21) 3% Not sure (12) 2%

16) Do you have an open mind regarding the UFO/Alien question?
     Yes (695) 94% No (46) 6%.

Thanks to all those who contributed to this effort, including
Bill Hamilton and Cliff Capers of Skywatch, Filer's Files, John
Hayes of UFO Roundup. http://www.skywatch-International.org
http://www.ufodisclosure.com


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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Apr > Apr 16

                         New Look At Mystery Flashes

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 18:52:47 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 18:52:47 -0400
Subject: New Look At Mystery Flashes



Source: Space.Com

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/mir_lights_030416.html

New Look At Mystery Flashes Reported By Astronauts

By Robert Roy Britt
Senior Science Writer

16 April 2003

When Marco Casolino flies on commercial airliners, he always
hopes he'll see things, just like the astronauts do. So far he's
had no luck. But a new study he led helps explain what it is
he's looking for.

Since the Apollo 11 mission, and perhaps before, astronauts have
been seeing things in space: colorful dots, streaks and flashes
spotted when their eyes were closed or when the inside of the
spacecraft was dark. During one trip to the Moon, astronauts
observed a flurry of activity, in green, which they described as
being like a St. Patrick's Day display.


Some scientists scoffed at the ghostly observations and at the
prediction from the pre-Apollo era that such a phenomenon could
occur.

Nobody is scoffing now. New results from Casolino, of the
National Institute of Nuclear Physics at the University of Rome,
Tor Vergata, move scientists closer to understanding how cosmic
rays apparently generate these mysterious light flashes, as they
are called.

Cosmic rays are highly energetic, charged particles -- mostly
protons -- that originate throughout the galaxy when stars
explode, scientists believe. They constantly bombard astronauts.
They can penetrate a spacecraft and the human body. Earth's
atmosphere and magnetic field, however, mostly protect the
planet from this perpetual onslaught.

Before anyone ever went to space, Cornelius Tobias, a Lawrence
Berkeley National Laboratory expert on the biological effects of
radiation, suggested in 1952 that cosmic rays might interact in
some way with the human visual system, which is designed to
perceive photons, not protons. He later tested the idea -- on
himself and colleagues -- using a particle accelerator, but the
tests were discontinued because of health concerns.

"You see visual flashes," Tobias later said, prior to his death
in 2000. "It is an exhilarating sensation. It is as though you
are looking into the universe itself."

The eye turns out to be a more amazing detector than anyone but
Tobias imagined.

"To our knowledge, light flashes are the only way that a human
can 'see' elementary particles directly, without the use of
instruments," Casolino told SPACE.com in an e-mail interview
describing his new research.

Close your eyes and watch

To learn more about the strange phenomenon, Casolino and his
collaborators outfitted cosmonauts aboard the Mir Space Station
(before it was de-orbited in 2001) with special helmets that
contained built-in particle detectors. The cosmonauts measured
particle rates while recording the number of flashes they saw.
The work builds on similar but inconclusive experiments
conducted aboard Apollo missions.

The frequency of flashes aboard Mir did not correspond to the
numbers of protons, suggesting another process was also at work,
Casolino and his colleagues will report in tomorrow's issue of
the journal Nature. The researchers conclude that rarer cosmic
ray particles -- the nuclei of helium, carbon, nitrogen and
oxygen -- are also involved.

The flashes can originate through direct interactions with the
retina or the optic nerve, Casolino said, or nuclear
interactions in the eye that in turn affect the retina, where
normal images are received after light passes through the eye's
lens.

There are no known health dangers associated with light flashes.
But cosmic radiation in general is hazardous. Reactions can
destroy cell nuclei and put astronauts at increased risk for
cancer and make them more susceptible to other diseases,
researchers believe.

Present knowledge of light flashes, Casolino said, suggests that
merely monitoring radiation might not give a complete picture of
the effects of cosmic rays, and a detailed understanding of the
flashes could improve efforts to safeguard future space
travelers.

Casolino's team is now analyzing data from a more sophisticated
test conducted last year on the International Space Station. In
addition to monitoring incoming particles, the study used an
electroencephalograph to monitor brain activity during light
flashes.

Do you see what I see?

For anyone on the ground who sees things and has been wondering
if cosmic rays might be to blame, Casolino can't be sure, but he
has doubts.

The observations of flashes are extremely subjective and vary
from one person to another, he notes. But few cosmic rays
survive the trip through Earth's atmosphere. Most decay into
other particles, such as muons, which provide little or no
opportunity for generating flashes.

Further, Casolino said, the brain may well dismiss flashes as
unimportant, not even allowing us to notice them. Other
physiological conditions, such as differing blood pressure,
might cause similar apparent perceptions.

Jet passengers above much of the atmosphere ought to have a
better opportunity, however, to get a taste of the odd visual
experience astronauts describe.

"I try to look for light flashes when I'm on a plane, but up to
now I have seen nothing," Casolino said. "The problem is that it
is difficult to know what you are looking for."

* Airline Pilots Report a Different Sort of Flash:

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/planetearth/red_sprites_991208.html



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   Apr > Apr 16

                Why Life Could Not Have Come From Outer Space

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 19:01:06 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 19:01:06 -0400
Subject: Why Life Could Not Have Come From Outer Space



Source: IslamOnline.Net

http://www.islam-online.net/English/Science/2003/04/article06.shtml


Why Life Could Not Have Come From Outer Space

by Harun Yahya
16/04/2003


When Darwin put forward his theory in the middle of the
nineteenth century, he never mentioned how the origin of life,
in other words the first living cell, came to be. Scientists
looking for the origin of life at the beginning of the twentieth
century began to realize that the theory was invalid. The
complex and perfect structure in life prepared the ground for
many researchers to perceive the truth of creation. Mathematical
calculations and scientific experiment and observation
demonstrated that life could not be the "product of chance," as
the theory of evolution claimed.

With the collapse of the claim that coincidence was responsible
and the realization that life was "planned," some scientists
began to look for the origin of life in outer space. The best-
known of the scientists who made such claims were Fred Hoyle and
Chandra Wickramasinghe. These two cobbled together a scenario in
which they proposed that there was a force which "seeded" life
in space. According to the scenario, these seeds were carried
through the emptiness of space by gas, dust clouds or by an
asteroid, and eventually reached the Earth, thus initiating life
on this planet.

Nobel Prize winner Francis Crick, co-discoverer with James
Watson of the double helix structure of DNA, is one of those who
had sought the origin of life in outer space. Crick came to
realize that it is quite unreasonable to expect life to have
started by chance, but he claimed instead that life on Earth was
started by intelligent "extraterrestrial" powers.

As we have seen, the idea that life came from outer space has
influenced prominent scientists. The matter is now even
discussed in writings and debates on the origin of life. The
idea of looking for the origin of life in outer space can be
considered from two basic perspectives.

Scientific Inconsistency

The key to evaluating the "life began in outer space" theory
lies in studying the meteorites that reached the Earth and the
clouds of gas and dust existing in space. No evidence has yet
been found to support the claim that celestial bodies contained
non-earthly creatures that eventually seeded life on Earth. No
research that has been carried out so far has revealed any of
the complex macromolecules that appear in life forms.

Furthermore, the substances contained in meteorites do not
possess a certain kind of asymmetry found in the macromolecules
that constitute life. For instance, amino acids, which make up
proteins, the basic building blocks of life, should
theoretically occur as both left- and right-handed forms
("optical isomers") in roughly equal numbers. However, only
left-handed amino acids are found in proteins, whereas this
asymmetric distribution does not occur among the small organic
molecules (the carbon-based molecules found in living things)
discovered in meteorites. The latter exist in both left- and
right-handed forms.1

That is by no means the end of the obstacles to the theory that
bodies and substances in outer space gave rise to life on Earth.
Those who maintain such an idea need to be able to explain why
such a process is not happening now, with the Earth still being
bombarded by meteorites. However, study of these meteorites has
not revealed any "seeding" to confirm the thesis in any way.

Another question confronting the defenders of the thesis is
this: Even if it is accepted that life was formed by a
consciousness in outer space, and that it somehow reached Earth,
how did the millions of species on Earth come about? That is a
huge dilemma for those who suggest that life began in space.

Alongside all of these obstacles, no trace has been found in the
universe of a civilization or life form that could have started
life on Earth. No astronomical observations, which have picked
up enormous speed in the last 30 years, have given any
indication of the presence of such a civilization.

What lies behind the "extraterrestrial" theory?

As we have seen, the theory that life on Earth was initiated by
extraterrestrials has no scientific basis to it. No discoveries
have been made to confirm or support it. However, when the
scientists who put forward the suggestion began to look in that
direction, they did so because they perceived one important
truth.

The truth in question is that a theory that seeks to explain
life on Earth as being the result of chance is no longer
tenable. It has been realized that the complexity revealed in
the life forms on Earth can only be the product of intelligent
design. In fact, the areas of expertise of the scientists who
sought the origin of life in outer space give a clue as to their
rejection of the logic of the theory of evolution; both are
world-renowned scientists: Fred Hoyle is an astronomer and bio-
mathematician, and Francis Crick a molecular biologist.

One point which needs to be considered is that those scientists
who look to outer space to find the origin of life do not
actually make any new interpretation of the matter. Scientists
such as Hoyle, Wickramasinghe and Crick began to consider the
possibility that life came from space because they realized that
life could not have come about by chance. Since it was
impossible for life on Earth to have begun by chance, they had
to accept the existence of a source of intelligent design in
outer space.

However, the theory put forward by them on the subject of the
origin of this intelligent design is contradictory and
meaningless. Modern physics and astronomy have revealed that our
universe originated as a result of a huge explosion some12 -
  15billion years ago known as "The Big Bang." All matter in the
universe came about from that explosion. For this reason, any
idea that seeks the origin of life on Earth in another matter-
based life form in the universe has to explain in turn how that
form of life came into existence. The meaning of this is that
such a suggestion does not actually solve the problem, but takes
it one step further back. (For more detail, see Harun Yahya's
books The Creation of the Universe and Timelessness and The
Reality of Fate).

As we have seen, the thesis that "life came from outer space"
does not support evolution, but is a view that reveals the
impossibility of evolution and accepts that there can be no
other explanation for life than intelligent design. The
scientists who suggested this began with a correct analysis but
then went down a false road, and started the silly search for
the origin of life in outer space.

It is obvious that the concept of "extraterrestrials" cannot
account for the origin of life. Even if we accept for one moment
the hypothesis that "extraterrestrials" actually exist, it is
still clear that they could not have come into being by chance,
but must themselves be the product of intelligent design. (That
is because the laws of physics and chemistry are the same
everywhere in the universe, and they make it impossible for life
to emerge by chance.) This shows that God, Who is beyond matter
and time, and possesses infinite might, wisdom, and knowledge,
created the universe and everything in it.

The author, who writes under the pen-name Harun Yahya, has
published many books on political, faith-related and scientific
issues. Some of the books of the author have been translated
into English, German, French, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese,
Albanian, Arabic, Polish, Russian, Bosnian, Indonesian, Turkish,
Tatar, Urdu and Malay and published in the countries concerned.,
has published many books on political, faith-related and
scientific issues. Visit his website at www.harunyahya.com or
contact him at info@harunyahya.com


[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]








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   Apr > Apr 16

                  3 Cows & Bull Calf Mutilated Patrol Says

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 19:05:23 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 19:05:23 -0400
Subject: 3 Cows & Bull Calf Mutilated Patrol Says



Source: Omaha World-Herald

http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_np=0&u_pg=36&u_sid=714241

April 16, 2003

3 Cows, Bull Calf Mutilated Patrol Says

by Paul Hammel
World-Herald Staff Writer

VALPARAISO, Neb. - Three cows and a bull calf were killed on two
separate nights in what officials are calling cases of cattle
mutilation.

The animals were found the mornings of April 5 and April 7 in
the same pasture about three miles west of Valparaiso on
Nebraska Highway 66.

Two cows and a bull calf were found after the first incident. A
teat was removed from one of the cows, and the rectum and
testicles were cut from the bull calf. Two mornings later, one
cow was found dead. An attempt had been made to cut off a teat.

A veterinarian who examined the cattle ruled that they had died
from electrocution, said Jay Petersen, a Lincoln-based
investigator with the Nebraska State Patrol.

Petersen said tire and boot tracks were found after the second
incident, which occurred during a heavy snowstorm. There were
few other clues.

"People talk about this being a cult-type activity, but that's
really hard to say," he said. "I don't like to speculate about
things like that.

"But it's hard for me to imagine a cult going out in a raging
snowstorm doing something like this, or even a prankster doing
this during a snowstorm."

Petersen said it was the first cattle mutilation case he has
worked in five years as an investigator, although there was a
report of a similar mutilation in the Valparaiso area in 1994.

Officials with the Nebraska Department of Agriculture, the
University of Nebraska and the Nebraska Cattlemen said they
hadn't heard of a cattle mutilation case in the state for
several years.

"This is the first one I've heard of in I can't remember how
long, thankfully," said Mike Fitzgerald, a spokesman for
Nebraska Cattlemen.

Several Internet sites contain information about cattle
mutilations and speculate that UFOs or cults may be the cause.

In Montana, between June and October of 2001, 15 cases of cattle
mutilations were reported.

Such cases are expensive. Three cows and a calf are worth around
$2,000. That makes the crime one of felony criminal mischief,
Petersen said.

Dr. James Weiss, animal epidemiologist with the Nebraska
Department of Agriculture, said it wouldn't be that difficult to
electrocute a cow. Occasionally, he said, electrical shorts in
water heaters for stock tanks can kill an animal that takes a
drink.

Petersen said the mutilations probably happened during the early
morning of April 5 and 7.

Anyone with any information about the incidents is asked to call
the patrol's Crime Stoppers number, (800) 422-1494.


[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]








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   Apr > Apr 17

                Processing FOIA Request 03-21-03 To ICAF-NDU

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 19:48:59 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 03:54:33 -0400
Subject: Processing FOIA Request 03-21-03 To ICAF-NDU


TO:   Lt. Commander W. Scott Laragy, JAGC-USN
       Assistant General Counsel
       National Defense University (Industrial College of the
       Armed Forces and the National War College)
       Fort Lesley J. McNair
       Washington, DC  20319

FROM: Larry W. Bryant
       3518 Martha Custis Drive
       Alexandria, VA  22302

DATE: April 16, 2003

In our phone conversation today about my freedom-of-information
request sent on March 21, 2003, to ICAF commandant Maj. Gen.
Howard Mashburn, you advised me that you had not queried the
general about the subject matter's inclusive dates as to any
impending records search in your fulfillment of my request -
saying that I, not he, have the burden of specifying those
dates.

Accordingly, having refined my research into the history of this
controversy, I hereby request that your records search encompass
all ICAF-NWC-NDU responsive records generated and received
during the period of Dec. 1, 2002, through April 16, 2003.

In our conversation, I suggested that, in order to facilitate
and expedite your records search, you might wish to follow the
example set recently via an FOIA lawsuit against the Defense
Advanced Research Projects Agency: simply dispatch to the
entire ICAF-NWC-NDU staff and faculty an e-mail message calling
for these personnel to gather, and to forward to you, all
responsive records (including e-mail, sent and received).
  Should any of those forwarded records be dated outside the
above-cited timeframe, I of course would expect you to include
them in your fulfillment of my request.

In the meantime, in case you reject my suggestion, I'm preparing
the following advertisement for placement in a forthcoming
edition of the "Pentagram" newspaper:

Blow the Whistle on ICAF-NDU's 1st Amendment Restrictions

ICAF-NWC-NDU personnel desiring to assist my recent FOIA quest
about the controversy over "academic freedom"/1st Amendment
restrictions as regards your dissent over presidential
decisionmaking may do so by sending a copy of all relevant
records to:  Larry W. Bryant, 3518 Martha Custis Drive,
Alexandria, VA  22302 (e-mail: overtci@cavtel.net ).


Larry W. Bryant

Copies furnished to:

Mark S. Zaid, Esq. (Washington, D.C.)

Director, the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press

Chairman, Subcommittee on Government Information, Management, and
Technology -- U. S. House of Representatives

hairman, U. S. Senate Committee on the Judiciary

Chairman, U. S. Senate Committee on Government Affairs





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   Apr > Apr 17

                  Re: Media Notice - 'The Secret' - Aldrich

From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 20:37:27 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 03:58:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Media Notice - 'The Secret' - Aldrich


 >From: Paul Kimball <Kimballwood@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 13:48:48 EDT
 >Subject: Re: Media Notice - 'The Secret'

 >>From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 10:50:42 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: Media Notice - 'The Secret'

<snip>

 >>Even-handed? Balanced? Excuse me for skepticism. but your list
 >>of names does not seem much different for Sci-Fi's. Perhaps you
 >>should talk to Tim Good about MJ-12 documents and Cooper's
 >>typewriter.

 >I intend to talk to all sorts of people, from both sides. The
 >ones listed in my original post (Dolan, Friedman, Maccabee,
 >Pflock and Greenwald) are merely the ones I've had a chance to
 >talk to already, while in New Mexico a couple of weeks ago for
 >the wonderful Aztec Symposium.

 >>Perhaps you should look at U. F. O. Historical Revue #3 at

 >>http://www.cufon.org

 >Already have.

 >>Perhaps you should review how these documents came into ufology
 >>and the other "documents" which came with them which are no
 >>longer discussed.

 >Part of the plan.

 >>Nah, that would just get in the way of a good story.

 >A good story and the truth are not mutually exclusive. If the
 >documents are real, it's a great story; if they're a hoax,
 >that's still a great story. Either way, it's an important story.

 >>Forget I mentioned it. Much better to not to have negatives in
 >>such an enterprise.

 >Somebody obviously got up on the wrong side of the bed today.

 >>Have to run, I am going out to meet P. T. Barnum for a drink.

 >Say hello.

 >Seriously, though, if you - or anyone out there - have
 >suggestions as to where you think we might want to head in our
 >research, let me know. You might not think we take this stuff
 >seriously, or that we will be objective - on what evidence you
 >may have drawn those conclusions I have no idea - but I can
 >assure you that we do.


Paul,

I personally do not see MJ-12 as being anything to do with UFOs.
However, my grumpiness on this issue stems from the Sci-Fi
Channel's presentation and of the names you mentioned.

The name Barry Greenwood is conspicuously absence from the list
nor are any of the signers of the statement on SOM 1-01. There
is a further list we might discuss off line. There exist very
extensive files on the subject of MJ-12.

On SOM 1-01 I did a brief examination of the document a number
of years ago and found over 50 obvious problems with it. Most of
these problems have not been answered, and the criticism has
held up well over the years, Ryan Wood's claims to the contrary,
I have not seen any serious attempts to takes these on by
proponents.

I suggest further discussion off line.


Sincerely,

Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
http://www.project1947.com/
P. O. Box 391
Canterbury, CT 06331
(860) 546-9135







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   Apr > Apr 17

                    Re: Sci-Fi's Blitzkrieg Of UFO Lies &

From: Chris Burns  <Thurstonoreggae@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 00:30:43 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 04:02:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Sci-Fi's Blitzkrieg Of UFO Lies &


 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 11:10:19 -0400
 >Subject: Sci-Fi's Blitzkrieg Of UFO Lies And Dis-Information


 >The entire three-hours of SciFi's 'UFO' programming last night
 >was a complete abortion. A collection of the very worst in
 >ufology.


Mr. Velez and List,

I must agree with the above comment, but Sci Fi's evening of UFO
broadcasting was not without merit. It was funnier than Comedy
Central's programming that night.

Despite the sad debut of Disclosure Tuesday, take note of the
documentary that Barry Taff and Barry Conrad produced, which is
scheduled for next week on Sci Fi. Taff is, IMHO, one of the
investigators of unexplained phenomena who's work is worth
following. I just hope the show's production isn't too low-
budget. Laugh at the bad graphics of these shows, but it can be
extremely expensive to make longform productions.


Chris Burns







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   Apr > Apr 17

                    Re: Filer's Files #16 -- 2003 - Oberg

From: James Oberg <jamesoberg@houston.rr.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 23:51:06 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 04:06:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #16 -- 2003 - Oberg


 >From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 17:23:25 -0400
 >Subject: Filer's Files #16 -- 2003

 >DR HERMAN OBERTH FATHER OF SPACE AGE SAYS UFOs EXIST

 >Editor's Correction: Last week, I gave a quote attributed to
 >Professor Oberth, stating "We find ourselves faced by powers
 >which are far stronger than we had hitherto assumed, and whose
 >base is at present is unknown to us..." Although he said
 >something similar to this in an interview with MUFON's Antonio
 >Huneeus, I was unable to reach Antonio to verify the exact
 >quote. Therefore, I stand corrected, however, Oberth
 >specifically stated for publication, "It is my thesis that
 >flying saucers are real and that they are space ships from
 >another solar system...."


The quotations attributed here to Dr. Oberth appear to be valid.
I presume he reached these conclusions based on his reading of
published reports from Keyhoe and others, and because of his
lifelong dedication to the premise of interplanetary flight. His
pioneering intellect in that field is unquestioned.

The quote provided previously (and mistakenly attributed to
Oberth) was actually attributed in books by Steiger and Good to
Wernher Von Braun. It is that quote - and not merely the choice
of who may have said it - that I have concluded is bogus, based
on my examination of the cited sources in the footnotes
provided.

I would be happy to pursue this issue farther - that the famous
'Von Braun quote' is imaginary - to whatever degree anyone
considers it worthwhile. To add to the garble, Clark McClelland
on _his_ home page alleges that von Braun told _him_ those exact
words lifted from Good's book - words which my research shows
to have been bogus, which tells us a lot about McClelland's
credibility as well.

For this iteration toward higher accuracy - a striving that we
all have the duty to perform - I thank Mr. Filer, and express
the hope that it can occur on a regular basis whenever required.

For the effort to get raw reports in front of investigators in a
timely manner, I also repeat my appreciation for the work by Mr.
Filer. For the still unsatisfied need of back-indexing raw
reports to subsequent investigations and conclusions, I merely
express the hope that more advanced computer software can
facilitate such a complex and time-consuming process in times to
come.


Jim Oberg






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                    Re: Sci-Fi's Blitzkrieg Of UFO Lies &

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 01:21:28 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 04:08:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Sci-Fi's Blitzkrieg Of UFO Lies &


 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 11:10:19 -0400
 >Subject: Sci-Fi's Blitzkrieg Of UFO Lies And Dis-Information

 >The entire three-hours of SciFi's 'UFO' programming last night
 >was a complete abortion. A collection of the very worst in
 >ufology. If it was 'fringy' or 'out there' it made it into the
 >programs. No mention at all of _any_ serious research or
 >researchers. They avoided mentioning anything serious or
 >credible assiduously.

 >The first hour was full of explanations about the "Galactic
 >Brotherhood" and 'alien souls" who have "walked-in" and taken
 >over human bodies, complete with Sean David Morton as an
 >'expert' commentator - who dared to take credit, on air, for
 >"blowing the lid off of the Area 51 story"!

Gosh, with Sean David Morten their we have the pillar of
accuracy who checks and rechecks the facts... :)

 >The second hour focused on the Heaven's Gate and the Raelian
 >cults as if they represented some kind of 'mainstream' in
 >ufology. It was insanity piled on insanity. A relentless
 >compilation of pure junk and bombastic lies presented as
 >'representative' of ufology.

Any wacko cult or bunch of fruitcakes that have UFO connected to
them seems to be billed as mainstream, although I view them as
the sick, circus side show.

 >It was unbelievable. I was incensed.

 >Then came the 'topper'; the Wood's making a case for MJ-12
 >without any opposing point of view or comment. If the Sci-fi
 >channel is out to sabotage and destroy the credibility of all of
 >ufology, this first concerted attack was as destructive as any.
 >As damaging as anyone could _intentionally_ put together.

One wonders if we discussed Tim Coopers typewriter, or was that
Bills typewriter..... :)


Cheers,

Robert







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   Apr > Apr 17

                    Re: Filer's Files #15 - 2003 - Oberg

From: James Oberg <jamesoberg@houston.rr.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 15:28:30 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 04:12:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #15 - 2003 - Oberg


 >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 09:25:40 -0700
 >Subject: Re: Filer's Files #15 - 2003

 >You are correct; it was Von Braun, not Oberth who should be
 >credited with the quote:

 >According to UFO authors Brad Steiger and Joan Whritenour, von
 >Braun told West German newspapers that a 1958 malfunction of a
 >US Juno II rocket had been "deflected" off-course by an unnamed
 >and presumably extraterrestrial source. The following year he
 >elaborated to Neues Europa that "we find ourselves faced by
 >powers which are far stronger than we had hitherto assumed, and
 >whose base of operations is at present unknown to us. More I
 >cannot say at present. We are now engaged in entering into
 >closer contact with these powers and in six or nine months' time
 >it may be possible to speak with more precision on this matter."
 >[10]

 >http://www.disinfo.com/pages/article/id900/pg2/

 >10] Brad Steiger and Joan Whritenour. Flying Saucers Are
 >Hostile, New York: Universal Publishing and Distributing
 >Corporation (Tandem), 1967, p 68.


Does Filer agree with you? Nobody seems to know. Well, there's
lots of reasonable reasons why he hasn't been in touch - like
most of us, he has a real life and a normal sense of priorities.

I concur that the quotation is actually one attributed to Von
Braun, but my main point - now revealed - is that this alleged
quotation is also bogus. I am dismayed that anyone thinks it is
acceptable to cite Brad Steiger (or Tim Good, who also used the
quote)  as a source of reliable facts. Would you consider taking
up my wager, modified, that the quotation attributed to Von
Braun is bogus?

Would anyone?

Maybe Clark McClelland will agree. After all, on his home page
at http://www.stargate-chronicles.com/chasingjuno.html he
recounts an incident in which Von Braun _personally_ told him
exactly those words as quoted in Good's and Steiger's books.


JimO
www.jamesoberg.com








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   Apr > Apr 17

                  Re: Filer's Files #16 -- 2003 - Friedman

From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 07:54:40 -0300
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 14:21:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #16 -- 2003 - Friedman


 >From: James Oberg <jamesoberg@houston.rr.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 23:51:06 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Filer's Files #16 -- 2003

 >>From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 17:23:25 -0400
 >>Subject: Filer's Files #16 -- 2003

 >>DR HERMAN OBERTH FATHER OF SPACE AGE SAYS UFOs EXIST

 >>Editor's Correction: Last week, I gave a quote attributed to
 >>Professor Oberth, stating "We find ourselves faced by powers
 >>which are far stronger than we had hitherto assumed, and whose
 >>base is at present is unknown to us..." Although he said
 >>something similar to this in an interview with MUFON's Antonio
 >>Huneeus, I was unable to reach Antonio to verify the exact
 >>quote. Therefore, I stand corrected, however, Oberth
 >>specifically stated for publication, "It is my thesis that
 >>flying saucers are real and that they are space ships from
 >>another solar system...."

 >The quotations attributed here to Dr. Oberth appear to be valid.
 >I presume he reached these conclusions based on his reading of
 >published reports from Keyhoe and others, and because of his
 >lifelong dedication to the premise of interplanetary flight. His
 >pioneering intellect in that field is unquestioned.

 >The quote provided previously (and mistakenly attributed to
 >Oberth) was actually attributed in books by Steiger and Good to
 >Wernher Von Braun. It is that quote - and not merely the choice
 >of who may have said it - that I have concluded is bogus, based
 >on my examination of the cited sources in the footnotes
 >provided.

 >I would be happy to pursue this issue farther - that the famous
 >'Von Braun quote' is imaginary - to whatever degree anyone
 >considers it worthwhile. To add to the garble, Clark McClelland
 >on _his_ home page alleges that von Braun told _him_ those exact
 >words lifted from Good's book - words which my research shows
 >to have been bogus, which tells us a lot about McClelland's
 >credibility as well.

 >For this iteration toward higher accuracy - a striving that we
 >all have the duty to perform - I thank Mr. Filer, and express
 >the hope that it can occur on a regular basis whenever required.

 >For the effort to get raw reports in front of investigators in a
 >timely manner, I also repeat my appreciation for the work by Mr.
 >Filer. For the still unsatisfied need of back-indexing raw
 >reports to subsequent investigations and conclusions, I merely
 >express the hope that more advanced computer software can
 >facilitate such a complex and time-consuming process in times to
 >come.


I knew Clark McClelland years ago. Within the last few years I
did some detailed checking on his claimed background, because he
had claimed that von Braun had told him he knew all about
Roswell. While von Braun may well have known about Roswell (he
was stationed at Fort Bliss in 1947 and working at White Sands),
I found no reason to believe Clark's comments. He had
substantially "enhanced" his background in both Pittsburgh and
Florida! This has, of course, happened with regard to Bob Lazar,
William Spaulding, Michael Wolf  Kruvant, someone who almost
became the football coach at Notre Dame, etc, ad nauseum.. I
would place these quotes in my gray basket, at best, unless
somebody can find better sources than McClelland.


Stan Friedman







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   Apr > Apr 17

                    Re: Filer's Files #15 - 2003 - Shough

From: Martin Shough <mshough@parcellular.fsnet.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 12:15:02 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 14:28:53 -0400
Subject: Re:  Filer's Files #15 - 2003 - Shough


 >From: James Oberg <jamesoberg@houston.rr.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 15:28:30 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Filer's Files #15 - 2003

 >>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 09:25:40 -0700
 >>Subject: Re: Filer's Files #15 - 2003

 >>You are correct; it was Von Braun, not Oberth who should be
 >>credited with the quote:

 >>According to UFO authors Brad Steiger and Joan Whritenour, von
 >>Braun told West German newspapers that a 1958 malfunction of a
 >>US Juno II rocket had been "deflected" off-course by an unnamed
 >>and presumably extraterrestrial source. The following year he
 >>elaborated to Neues Europa that "we find ourselves faced by
 >>powers which are far stronger than we had hitherto assumed, and
 >>whose base of operations is at present unknown to us. More I
 >>cannot say at present. We are now engaged in entering into
 >>closer contact with these powers and in six or nine months' time
 >>it may be possible to speak with more precision on this matter."

 >I concur that the quotation is actually one attributed to Von
 >Braun, but my main point - now revealed - is that this alleged
 >quotation is also bogus. I am dismayed that anyone thinks it is
 >acceptable to cite Brad Steiger (or Tim Good, who also used the
 >quote)  as a source of reliable facts. Would you consider taking
 >up my wager, modified, that the quotation attributed to Von
 >Braun is bogus?

 >Would anyone?

<snip>

 >Maybe Clark McClelland will agree. After all, on his home page
 >at http://www.stargate-chronicles.com/chasingjuno.html he
 >recounts an incident in which Von Braun _personally_ told him
 >exactly those words as quoted in Good's and Steiger's books.

Hi

Isn't there another explanation? This is supposedly a quote from
a West German newspaper. It is therefore a *translation*.
Imagine that Von Braun responds to a story about a rocket going
off course in some such terms as these:

"We're having to control energies we haven't had experience
with, and the basic principles are still being worked out. What
can I say? We're doing our best to analyse the stresses involved
and in six or nine months' time I might be able to tell you what
went wrong."

Seems to me you need to ask where the translation came from and
find the original German.


Regards

Martin Shough







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   Apr > Apr 17

                                UFOs & Wars?

From: Thiago Luiz Ticchetti <<thiagolt@opengate.com.br>
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 11:03:54 -0300
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 14:33:02 -0400
Subject: UFOs & Wars?


Hello List,

I am writing article about the UFO sightings during wars -
Vietnam, Korea war, World Wars I and II, The Gulf War and even
previous wars - and would like to know if you can help by sending
informations, links or articles.

Thank you in advance.


--
Thiago Luiz Ticchetti
Vice-presidente da EBE-ET/RAB
Brasilia/DF
Brasil







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   Apr > Apr 17

                    Re: Filer's Files #15 - 2003 - Clarke

From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 18:34:57 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 14:35:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #15 - 2003 - Clarke


 >From: James Oberg <jamesoberg@houston.rr.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 15:28:30 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Filer's Files #15 - 2003

 >I concur that the quotation is actually one attributed to Von
 >Braun, but my main point - now revealed - is that this alleged
 >quotation is also bogus. I am dismayed that anyone thinks it is
 >acceptable to cite Brad Steiger (or Tim Good, who also used the
 >quote) as a source of reliable facts. Would you consider taking
 >up my wager, modified, that the quotation attributed to Von
 >Braun is bogus?

 >Would anyone?

Hi Jim,

I'll wager this is bogus.

Here is an extract from Wernher von Braun's book "First Men to
the Moon" published by Holt, Rinehart and Winston of Canada in
1958:


"Question: What is your opinion on U.F.Os?"

"Answer: There is a rational and rather straight-forward
explanation for the great majority of sightings of unidentified
flying objects or 'flying saucers', as they are more familiarly
called. During the last ten years, official U.S. investigators
have tabulated about six thousand sightings. They could account
for all but two per cent as belonging to any of the following
categories: High-flying balloons of various kinds; High flying
aircraft illuminated by the sun after the sun had set on the
ground; Nightly 'Fata Morgana' type reflections in the
atmosphere of distant light sources on the ground; artificial
satellites of U.S. or Soviet origin; Meteorites and fireballs;
birds; the planets Venus or Jupiter; searchlights illuminating
cloud layers, Hoaxes perpetrated by pranksters.

Even the most ardent believers in flying objects of extra-
terrestrial origin will usually concede that most reported
'sightings' can be traced back to one of these sources. But it
is that unnacounted two per cent that makes enthusiasts cling
tenaciously to their conviction.

I cannot account for the mysterious two percent, either. But a
lifetime spent with testing of guided missiles has taught me to
be extremely careful with eye-witness accounts on rocket firings
running into some in-flight trouble. Of three experienced
observers questioned after a typical mishap, one swore that he
clearly saw a part coming off before the rocket faltered; a
second hotly denied this but claimed that the missile oscillated
violently before it veered off the course; while the third
trained observer saw neither a part coming off, nor an
oscillation, nor anything veering off course but insisted that
the rocket was flying perfectly steadily until it was abruptly
ripped apart by an internal explosion.

Such contradictions in the eyewitness accounts of old rocket
men are by no means an exception; we are almost invariably
confronted with this situation. Yet we are dealing here with
experienced observers who not only had seen many firings, but
who had the great advantage of being mentally prepared for the
imminent test.

For this reason I am highly skeptical about the objective of
any 'sighting' report of a fleeting, mysterious object in the
sky submitted by an equally surprised and unexperienced
observer. And those unnaccounted two per cent of U.F.O.'s
absolutely fail to raise my blood pressure. To me, ninety-eight
per cent is a might good batting average. I wish we could
account for ninety-eight per cent of what we observe in many
other fields of human endeavour! Yet, ever since the Middle Ages
it has not been customary for science to call on ghosts and
witches - or little green men from Mars - whenever we are
confronted with a phenomenon for which we do not have a
satisfactory answer.

To those who, either through personal observation or through
hearsay based on other people's accounts, still insist that
objects of extra-terrestrial origin are roaming through our
atmosphere, I can only say that I have never seen such an object
and cannot believe in their existence until I do."


Odd that Steiger and Good chose to ignore the words of the
man himself!








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   Apr > Apr 17

                          Re: UFOs & Wars? - Groff

From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 14:38:51 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 18:41:20 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs & Wars? - Groff


 >From: Thiago Luiz Ticchetti <<thiagolt@opengate.com.br>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 11:03:54 -0300
 >Subject: UFOs & Wars?

 >Hello List,

 >I am writing article about the UFO sightings during wars -
 >Vietnam, Korea war, World Wars I and II, The Gulf War and even
 >previous wars - and would like to know if you can help by
sending
 >informations, links or articles.

 >Thank you in advance.

 >Thiago Luiz Ticchetti
 >Vice-presidente da EBE-ET/RAB
 >Brasilia/DF
 >Brasil

I've seen references to Alexander The Great being aided by, and
harassed by, "Silvery Discs" during his March to India.

Can anyone tell me the original source of those stories?


Terry Groff

www.terrygroff.com/mufon/







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   Apr > Apr 17

               CCCRN News: The Prairie Circular - Spring 2003

From: Paul Anderson <psa@look.ca>
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 13:12:50 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 18:43:33 -0400
Subject: CCCRN News: The Prairie Circular - Spring 2003



CCCRN NEWS
E-News from the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network

April 17, 2003

http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada

_____________________________


The Prairie Circular - Spring 2003

The Spring 2003 issue of The Prairie Circular newsletter is now
available, featuring reviews and photos of the Signs of Destiny
conference in Arizona and the Tek and Crop Circles conference in
Ontario in 2002, a look at the possible relationship between
crop circles and sound and a report on two of the formations
from Midale, Saskatchewan in 2001 showing how while most
Canadian formations are still simpler than those in Europe in
terms of shape or geometry, the ground construction or crop lay
can sometimes be quite complex, more so than people often
think...

Subscription information:

http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada/theprairiecircular.html


____________________________


The Prairie Circular

Want more? Subscribe to The Prairie Circular, the quarterly
print newsletter of CCCRN and keep informed with the latest
news, updates, articles, reviews and complete crop circle
coverage from the Canadian prairies and across the country...
only from CCCRN!

Current issue: Spring 2003

http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada/theprairiecircular.html

____________________________


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Buy the DVD or VHS Video through CCCRN at special discounted
prices!

http://www.cropcirclesthemovie.com/affiliates/special_buy2.php?id=a6cf7d

____________________________


CCCRN News is the e-news service of the Canadian Crop Circle
Research Network, providing e-mail updates with the latest news
and reports on the crop circle phenomenon in Canada, as well as
other information on CCCRN-related projects and events, sent
free to your e-mail

To subscribe, send an e-mail with Subscribe CCCRN News
in the subject line to:
cccrnnews@look.ca

The Canadian Crop Circle Research Network is a non-profit
research organization which has been seriously investigating and
documenting the crop circle phenomenon and other possibly
related phenomena in Canada since 1995, creating a liason
between researchers, farmers, the public, media and scientists

Main Office

202 - 325 East 14th Avenue
Vancouver, BC V5T 2M9 Canada
Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522
Cell: 604.727.1454
E-Mail: cccrn@look.ca
Web: http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada

c. Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, 2003










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   Apr > Apr 17

                   Re: Filer's Files #15 - 2003 - Friedman

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 17:30:49 -0300
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 18:46:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #15 - 2003 - Friedman


 >From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 18:34:57 +0100
 >Subject: Re: Filer's Files #15 - 2003

 >>From: James Oberg <jamesoberg@houston.rr.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 15:28:30 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Filer's Files #15 - 2003

 >>I concur that the quotation is actually one attributed to Von
 >>Braun, but my main point - now revealed - is that this alleged
 >>quotation is also bogus. I am dismayed that anyone thinks it is
 >>acceptable to cite Brad Steiger (or Tim Good, who also used the
 >>quote) as a source of reliable facts. Would you consider taking
 >>up my wager, modified, that the quotation attributed to Von
 >>Braun is bogus?

 >>Would anyone?

 >I'll wager this is bogus.

 >Here is an extract from Wernher von Braun's book "First Men to
 >the Moon" published by Holt, Rinehart and Winston of Canada in
 >1958:

 >"Question: What is your opinion on U.F.Os?"

 >"Answer: There is a rational and rather straight-forward
 >explanation for the great majority of sightings of unidentified
 >flying objects or 'flying saucers', as they are more familiarly
 >called. During the last ten years, official U.S. investigators
 >have tabulated about six thousand sightings. They could account
 >for all but two per cent as belonging to any of the following
 >categories: High-flying balloons of various kinds; High flying
 >aircraft illuminated by the sun after the sun had set on the
 >ground; Nightly 'Fata Morgana' type reflections in the
 >atmosphere of distant light sources on the ground; artificial
 >satellites of U.S. or Soviet origin; Meteorites and fireballs;
 >birds; the planets Venus or Jupiter; searchlights illuminating
 >cloud layers, Hoaxes perpetrated by pranksters.

 >Even the most ardent believers in flying objects of extra-
 >terrestrial origin will usually concede that most reported
 >'sightings' can be traced back to one of these sources. But it
 >is that unnacounted two per cent that makes enthusiasts cling
 >tenaciously to their conviction.

 >I cannot account for the mysterious two percent, either. But a
 >lifetime spent with testing of guided missiles has taught me to
 >be extremely careful with eye-witness accounts on rocket firings
 >running into some in-flight trouble. Of three experienced
 >observers questioned after a typical mishap, one swore that he
 >clearly saw a part coming off before the rocket faltered; a
 >second hotly denied this but claimed that the missile oscillated
 >violently before it veered off the course; while the third
 >trained observer saw neither a part coming off, nor an
 >oscillation, nor anything veering off course but insisted that
 >the rocket was flying perfectly steadily until it was abruptly
 >ripped apart by an internal explosion.

 >Such contradictions in the eyewitness accounts of old rocket
 >men are by no means an exception; we are almost invariably
 >confronted with this situation. Yet we are dealing here with
 >experienced observers who not only had seen many firings, but
 >who had the great advantage of being mentally prepared for the
 >imminent test.

 >For this reason I am highly skeptical about the objective of
 >any 'sighting' report of a fleeting, mysterious object in the
 >sky submitted by an equally surprised and unexperienced
 >observer. And those unnaccounted two per cent of U.F.O.'s
 >absolutely fail to raise my blood pressure. To me, ninety-eight
 >per cent is a might good batting average. I wish we could
 >account for ninety-eight per cent of what we observe in many
 >other fields of human endeavour! Yet, ever since the Middle Ages
 >it has not been customary for science to call on ghosts and
 >witches - or little green men from Mars - whenever we are
 >confronted with a phenomenon for which we do not have a
 >satisfactory answer.

 >To those who, either through personal observation or through
 >hearsay based on other people's accounts, still insist that
 >objects of extra-terrestrial origin are roaming through our
 >atmosphere, I can only say that I have never seen such an object
 >and cannot believe in their existence until I do."

 >Odd that Steiger and Good chose to ignore the words of the
 >man himself!

I will accept that the above words are an accurate depiction of
what is in the book. The problem is that it is bunk. 2% of 6000
would be 120 reports. But Blue Book Special Report 14 published
in 1955 and covering up to 1953, found over 600 of the 3201
cases studied in detail by Battelle Memorial Institute (Though
there name isn't on the report) were UNKNOWNS. The duration of
observation for the UNKNOWNS was greater than for the KNOWNS.
The better the quality of the report the more likely to be an
UNKNOWN. 35% of the excellent sightings were UNKNOWNS.

What is this nonsense about "fleeting mysterious object seen in
the sky submitted by an equally surprised and unexperienced
observer"? In short, not only has von Braun provided no facts to
back up his proclamations, but the facts that are readily
available clearly show that his proclamations were nonsense.
Obviously I have no idea why he made these false claims. The
important point is that they are false.Furthermore, I cannot
believe that if von Braun knew the facts as a result of being
involved with Roswell or other important cases, that he would
have said so to Clark McClelland or in an unclassified text.


Stan Friedman

www.v-j-enterprises.com/sfpage.html








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                   Re: Filer's Files #15 - 2003 - Gehrman

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 11:55:08 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 18:39:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #15 - 2003 - Gehrman


 >From: James Oberg <jamesoberg@houston.rr.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 15:28:30 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Filer's Files #15 - 2003

 >>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 09:25:40 -0700
 >>Subject: Re: Filer's Files #15 - 2003

 >>You are correct; it was Von Braun, not Oberth who should be
 >>credited with the quote:

<snip>

 >>10] Brad Steiger and Joan Whritenour. Flying Saucers Are
 >>Hostile, New York: Universal Publishing and Distributing
 >>Corporation (Tandem), 1967, p 68.

 >Does Filer agree with you? Nobody seems to know. Well, there's
 >lots of reasonable reasons why he hasn't been in touch - like
 >most of us, he has a real life and a normal sense of priorities.

He understands and I think he also understands your criticism
and cheap shot over a trivial matter. Why didn't you simply
correct George's understandable mistake, or direct the list to
your previous research on the quote?

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2001/nov/m25-007.shtml

 >I concur that the quotation is actually one attributed to Von
 >Braun, but my main point - now revealed - is that this alleged
 >quotation is also bogus. I am dismayed that anyone thinks it is
 >acceptable to cite Brad Steiger (or Tim Good, who also used the
 >quote) as a source of reliable facts. Would you consider taking
 >up my wager, modified, that the quotation attributed to Von
 >Braun is bogus?

I smelled a fix and seemed to recall that this quote had been
discussed before so after a simple Google, I found your previous
research on the subject. (See above link) I'll pass on the bet.

Ed







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                          Re: UFOs & Wars? - Groff

From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 14:38:51 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 18:41:20 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs & Wars? - Groff


 >From: Thiago Luiz Ticchetti <<thiagolt@opengate.com.br>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 11:03:54 -0300
 >Subject: UFOs & Wars?

 >Hello List,

 >I am writing article about the UFO sightings during wars -
 >Vietnam, Korea war, World Wars I and II, The Gulf War and even
 >previous wars - and would like to know if you can help by
sending
 >informations, links or articles.

 >Thank you in advance.

 >Thiago Luiz Ticchetti
 >Vice-presidente da EBE-ET/RAB
 >Brasilia/DF
 >Brasil

I've seen references to Alexander The Great being aided by, and
harassed by, "Silvery Discs" during his March to India.

Can anyone tell me the original source of those stories?


Terry Groff

www.terrygroff.com/mufon/







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   Apr > Apr 17

                   Re: Filer's Files #15 - 2003 - Friedman

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 17:30:49 -0300
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 18:46:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #15 - 2003 - Friedman


 >From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 18:34:57 +0100
 >Subject: Re: Filer's Files #15 - 2003

 >>From: James Oberg <jamesoberg@houston.rr.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 15:28:30 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Filer's Files #15 - 2003

 >>I concur that the quotation is actually one attributed to Von
 >>Braun, but my main point - now revealed - is that this alleged
 >>quotation is also bogus. I am dismayed that anyone thinks it is
 >>acceptable to cite Brad Steiger (or Tim Good, who also used the
 >>quote) as a source of reliable facts. Would you consider taking
 >>up my wager, modified, that the quotation attributed to Von
 >>Braun is bogus?

 >>Would anyone?

 >I'll wager this is bogus.

 >Here is an extract from Wernher von Braun's book "First Men to
 >the Moon" published by Holt, Rinehart and Winston of Canada in
 >1958:

 >"Question: What is your opinion on U.F.Os?"

 >"Answer: There is a rational and rather straight-forward
 >explanation for the great majority of sightings of unidentified
 >flying objects or 'flying saucers', as they are more familiarly
 >called. During the last ten years, official U.S. investigators
 >have tabulated about six thousand sightings. They could account
 >for all but two per cent as belonging to any of the following
 >categories: High-flying balloons of various kinds; High flying
 >aircraft illuminated by the sun after the sun had set on the
 >ground; Nightly 'Fata Morgana' type reflections in the
 >atmosphere of distant light sources on the ground; artificial
 >satellites of U.S. or Soviet origin; Meteorites and fireballs;
 >birds; the planets Venus or Jupiter; searchlights illuminating
 >cloud layers, Hoaxes perpetrated by pranksters.

 >Even the most ardent believers in flying objects of extra-
 >terrestrial origin will usually concede that most reported
 >'sightings' can be traced back to one of these sources. But it
 >is that unnacounted two per cent that makes enthusiasts cling
 >tenaciously to their conviction.

 >I cannot account for the mysterious two percent, either. But a
 >lifetime spent with testing of guided missiles has taught me to
 >be extremely careful with eye-witness accounts on rocket firings
 >running into some in-flight trouble. Of three experienced
 >observers questioned after a typical mishap, one swore that he
 >clearly saw a part coming off before the rocket faltered; a
 >second hotly denied this but claimed that the missile oscillated
 >violently before it veered off the course; while the third
 >trained observer saw neither a part coming off, nor an
 >oscillation, nor anything veering off course but insisted that
 >the rocket was flying perfectly steadily until it was abruptly
 >ripped apart by an internal explosion.

 >Such contradictions in the eyewitness accounts of old rocket
 >men are by no means an exception; we are almost invariably
 >confronted with this situation. Yet we are dealing here with
 >experienced observers who not only had seen many firings, but
 >who had the great advantage of being mentally prepared for the
 >imminent test.

 >For this reason I am highly skeptical about the objective of
 >any 'sighting' report of a fleeting, mysterious object in the
 >sky submitted by an equally surprised and unexperienced
 >observer. And those unnaccounted two per cent of U.F.O.'s
 >absolutely fail to raise my blood pressure. To me, ninety-eight
 >per cent is a might good batting average. I wish we could
 >account for ninety-eight per cent of what we observe in many
 >other fields of human endeavour! Yet, ever since the Middle Ages
 >it has not been customary for science to call on ghosts and
 >witches - or little green men from Mars - whenever we are
 >confronted with a phenomenon for which we do not have a
 >satisfactory answer.

 >To those who, either through personal observation or through
 >hearsay based on other people's accounts, still insist that
 >objects of extra-terrestrial origin are roaming through our
 >atmosphere, I can only say that I have never seen such an object
 >and cannot believe in their existence until I do."

 >Odd that Steiger and Good chose to ignore the words of the
 >man himself!

I will accept that the above words are an accurate depiction of
what is in the book. The problem is that it is bunk. 2% of 6000
would be 120 reports. But Blue Book Special Report 14 published
in 1955 and covering up to 1953, found over 600 of the 3201
cases studied in detail by Battelle Memorial Institute (Though
there name isn't on the report) were UNKNOWNS. The duration of
observation for the UNKNOWNS was greater than for the KNOWNS.
The better the quality of the report the more likely to be an
UNKNOWN. 35% of the excellent sightings were UNKNOWNS.

What is this nonsense about "fleeting mysterious object seen in
the sky submitted by an equally surprised and unexperienced
observer"? In short, not only has von Braun provided no facts to
back up his proclamations, but the facts that are readily
available clearly show that his proclamations were nonsense.
Obviously I have no idea why he made these false claims. The
important point is that they are false.Furthermore, I cannot
believe that if von Braun knew the facts as a result of being
involved with Roswell or other important cases, that he would
have said so to Clark McClelland or in an unclassified text.


Stan Friedman

www.v-j-enterprises.com/sfpage.html








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   Apr > Apr 18

                    Re: Sci-Fi's Blitzkrieg Of UFO Lies &

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@charter.net>
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 20:52:08 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 06:55:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Sci-Fi's Blitzkrieg Of UFO Lies &


 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 11:10:19 -0400
 >Subject: Sci-Fi's Blitzkrieg Of UFO Lies And Dis-Information

 >The entire three-hours of SciFi's 'UFO' programming last night
 >was a complete abortion. A collection of the very worst in
 >ufology. If it was 'fringy' or 'out there' it made it into the
 >programs. No mention at all of _any_ serious research or
 >researchers. They avoided mentioning anything serious or
 >credible assiduously.

<snip>

 >Paul, I'm looking forward to your documentary on MJ-12. I trust
 >we'll get a much more balanced presentation and review than that
 >abortion that was aired on the Sci-Fi channel last night.


Hello, all, John.

Absolutley spot on, John. I couldn't stand it, and turned it
off.


GT McCoy
equally P.O.ed






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   Apr > Apr 18

                     CI: Iraq and Cydonia: Two New Posts

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 22:50:35 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 06:59:58 -0400
Subject: CI: Iraq and Cydonia: Two New Posts


Cydonian Imperative
4-18-03

A Brief Note Regarding "Iraq Body Count"...
by Mac Tonnies


See: http://www.mactonnies.com/cydonia.html (page 37)


There has been some minor objection to the inclusion of the
"Iraq Body Count" banner that appears on this site.
Specifically, it has been interpreted as a political gesture. It
is not. The Cydonian Imperative is nonpartisan and I've avoided
any mention of the Iraq conflict in its pages. I have included
the Iraq Body Count simply because it is an accurate asessment
of real events. For those interested in the methodology used to
arrive at the "mininum" and "maximum" civilian casualties, a
careful look at the site should suffice.

Given that the Iraq Body Count figures are not alarmist fiction,
what bearing do they have on a site about Mars exploration and
discovery? As revealed in the essay "Will We Survive the Next
1,000 Years?" (above), I think the human race's trajectory as a
technological species demands careful assessment and mutation.
To date, over $20 billion have been spent on the Iraq conflict:
more than enough to finance a meaningful human presence on Mars.
Whether one agrees with the politics behind the war in Iraq or
not, this is a sobering figure.

Coupled with the documented loss of life - civilian and
otherwise - one is prompted to wonder if we (a planetary "we,"
not a short-term nationalist "we) are creating a future amenable
to future discovery in space.

****

The Enterprise Mission's New "Discoveries" by Mac Tonnies

While the Enterprise Mission's examples of "Cydonian"
architecture in Iraq are spurious, the Middle East is rich in
enigmatic artifacts such as this earthwork in Iran.

Richard Hoagland's Enterprise Mission website has posted a
series of photos that appear to document parallels between Iraqi
architecture and anomalous features on Mars. In my opinion,
readers have every reason to be skeptical that these parallels
are meaningful in any sense.

In the first image, titled "Another Tale of Two Cities -
Baghdad... and on Mars," an overhead image of Baghdad is
compared to reticulated terrain on Mars vaguely suggestive of a
terrestrial-style city. My question: Why the comparison to
Baghdad? While the Martian grid is indeed interesting (although
hardly "proof" of extraterrestrial intervention), it could just
as easily be compared to New York, Kansas City or Toronto. Is
there supposed to be a reason for the specific comparison to
Baghdad? If so, why isn't this made clear in the image?

The second image is called "Further Tales of Two Cities -
Baghdad... and Cydonia, on Mars." The argument above is again
applicable. There are no corresponding features between the
alleged Martian structures and the structures seen in Baghdad,
only a basic rectilinear motif characteristic of virtually all
modern cities on Earth.

Secondly, and equally damaging to those who would have us think
there is some exotic architectural connection beteeen Iraq and
Cydonia, the Mars image in question is the infinitely disputed
false-color "underground city" image discussed previously. There
is very little reason to think this image is a faithful
reproduction of actual buried structures. The image itself is
almost certainly irrelevant. The supposed correspondence to
Baghdad is infinitely more so.

[image]

Viking frame 70A13.

The third image is "The Strange 'Saddam Airport Face'", an
interesting but utterly unpersuasive comparison between Viking
frame 70A13 and a blurry portion of an Iraqi airport in which a
crude, face-like visage can be made out. There is indeed a
superficial similarity to 70A13, and the apparent implication is
that this is not a coincidence. But if Saddam Hussein's
architects had information concerning the Face on Mars and were
instructed to incorporate it into the airport's design, why must
we look to a low-resolution image of the Face taken in the 1970s
to see the resemblance? New, high-resolution images of the Face
reveal a formation with notable differences, including a
truncated (damaged?) eastern "mouth" and alleged feline
characteristics.

It is strange that the Enterprise Mission uses 70A13 when better
imagery exists. In any case, the blurred nature of the Saddam
Airport photo invites the question: does the face-like
appearance vanish when seen in greater clarity? Better images of
the so-called "Saddam Airport Face" are needed to mount a proper
investigation.

Lastly, we come to "Saddam's 'Tetrahedral' Saucer," which
features a monument from Hussein's regime that incorporates a
tetrahedral element. Readers of the Enterprise Mission site
realize that tetrahedrons are vital cornerstones in Hoagland's
fascinating "tetrahedral message of Cydonia." While I agree with
Hoagland that certain formations in Cydonia appear to represent
tetrahedral geometry (an element of Hoagland's controversial
"hyperdimensional physics"), the presence of a tetrahedron on
Earth proves nothing - least of all a Martian connection.

Tetrahedrons are the simplest of the Platonic solids. There is
nothing intrinsically strange or esoteric about them.
Unsurprisingly, they are commonplace in art all over the world.
This doesn't imply a connection with Cydonia. The Iraqi monument
is merely another example of a human artist utilizing a
geometric lingua franca to produce a pleasing effect, not
evidence of a legacy of hidden knowledge.

[image]

A rare photo of a pyramid in Iran.

None of this is to say that the Middle East has nothing to teach
us about the apparent structures on Mars. Iraq, situated between
the Tigris and the Euphrates, is indeed the birthplace of
recorded history. If there is a terrestrial connection, however
ancient, it would be foolish to condemn the possibility of
finding it buried in the dust of time. But at the same time, we
must beware the ever-present Will to Believe.

-end-






                         The UFO UpDates Archive
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Apr > Apr 18

                    Alexander The Great & UFOs - Mancusi

From: Bruno Mancusi <swissufo@swissufo.ch>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 11:53:05 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 07:03:10 -0400
Subject: Alexander The Great & UFOs - Mancusi


 >From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 14:38:51 -0500
 >Subject: Re: UFOs & Wars?

 >>From: Thiago Luiz Ticchetti <<thiagolt@opengate.com.br>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 11:03:54 -0300
 >>Subject: UFOs & Wars?

 >>I am writing article about the UFO sightings during wars -
 >>Vietnam, Korea war, World Wars I and II, The Gulf War and even
 >>previous wars - and would like to know if you can help by
 >>sending informations, links or articles.

 >I've seen references to Alexander The Great being aided by, and
 >harassed by, "Silvery Discs" during his March to India.

 >Can anyone tell me the original source of those stories?

I had an e-mails exchange in 2001 with a Macedonian historian,
Aleksandar Donski, about this tale. We found the following
references:

1. Frank Edwards, 'Stranger than Science', Pan, London 1963, p.
198 (1st US edition: 1959):

"Spies In The Skies

(...)

Alexander the Great was not the first to see them nor was he the
first to find them troublesome. He tells of two strange craft
that dived repeatedly at his army until the war elephants, the
men, and the horses all panicked and refused to cross the river
where the incident occurred. What did the things look like? His
historian describes them as great shining silvery shields,
spitting fire around the rims... things that came from the skies
and returned to the skies."

Unfortunately, there is no reference.

2. Alberto Fenoglio, "Cronistoria su oggetti volanti del passato
- Appunti per una clipeostoria", 'Clypeus' #9, 1st Semester
1966, p. 7:

"L'assedio di Tiro

Durante l'assedio di Tiro nell'anno 332 a. C. sono stati notati
degli strani oggetti volanti. Giovanni Gustavo Droysen nella sua
opera "Storia di Alessandro il Grande" volutamente non lo cita,
ritenendolo parto di fantasia dei soldati macedoni.

La fortezza non cedeva, le sue mura verso terra erano alte una
quindicina di metri e costruite cos=EC solidamente che nessuna
macchina d'assedio era in grado di danneggiarle. I tirii
disponevano dei pi=F9 grandi tecnici e costruttori di macchine da
guerra del tempo e intercettavano per aria le frecce incendiarie
ed i proiettili scagliati dalle catapulte sulla citt=E0.

Un giorno, all'improvviso, comparvero sul campo macedone i
misteriosi oggetti; questi scudi volanti, come erano stati
battezzati, procedevano in formazione a triangolo con in testa
uno molto grosso; gli altri erano pi=F9 piccoli di circa la met=E0.
In tutto erano cinque. Narra l'ignoto cronista che girarono
lentamente su Tiro, mentre migliaia di guerrieri delle due
fazioni stavano a guardarli stupiti. Ad un tratto, dal pi=F9
grosso degli "scudi", part=EC come un lampo che colp=EC un tratto
delle mura e queste si sbriciolarono, altri lampi seguirono e
mura e torri, come se fossero solo state costruite di fango, si
dissolsero, lasciando via libera agli assedianti che si
rovesciarono come una valanga dalle brecce. Gli "scudi volanti"
volteggiarono sulla citt=E0, finch=E8 non venne completamente
espugnata, poi velocissimamente sparirono in alto, confondendosi
in breve con l'azzurro del cielo."

(See English translation by Drake below.) No reference, too.

3. Gordon Creighton, "A new FSR catalogue - The effects of UFOs
on Animals, Birds and smaller creatures - Part 1", Flying Saucer
Review, vol. 16, No. 1, Jan-Feb 1970, pp. 26-28:

THE CATALOGUE-(i) B.C. TO 1946 A.D.

1. Middle East (_Reign of Alexander the Great_, 356-323 B.C.) A
historian of the reign of Alexander the Great allegedly tells of
two strange craft that dived repeatedly at his army, until the
war elephants, the men, and all the horses panicked and refused
to cross the river where the incident occurred... The historian
describes the objects as "great shining silvery shields,
spitting fire around the rims... things that came from the skies
and returned to the skies." Frank Edwards: 'Stranger Than
Science' (See notes.) (Pan Books, London), p. 198.

The notes are on p. 28:

NOTES

Case 1: This story has been related by Frank Edwards as well as
by other writers, but so far I have seen no indication as to
_which_ classical author is responsible for it. It certainly
_sounds_ good... _se non =E8 vero =E8 ben trovato_. I hope that if
there is a Greek or Latin text somebody can tell me where to
find it. Meanwhile, let us keep the story as a fine
introduction... "

As usual, Creighton wrote a very good commentary.

4. W. Raymond Drake, 'Gods and Spacemen in Greece and Rome',
Sphere, London 1976, pp. 115-116:

"Frank Edwards, the noted American UFO reporter, quoting some
source unfortunately not disclosed, states 'Intelligent beings
from outer Space may already be looking us over.' He exasperates
us by claiming

'Alexander the Great was not the first to see them nor was he
the first to find them troublesome. He tells of two strange
craft that dived repeatedly at his army until the war elephants,
the men, and the horses all panicked and refused to cross the
river where the incident occurred. What did the things look
like? His historian describes them as great shining silvery
shields, spitting fire around the rims... things that came from
the skies and returned to the skies.'119

This remarkable incident was apparently paralleled by an equally
fantastic visitation during the Siege of Tyre by Alexander in
332 BC. Quoting Giovanni Gustavo Droysens Storia di Alessandro
il Grande, the erudite Italian Alberto Fenoglio, writes in
CLYPEUS Anno 111, No 2, a startling revelation which we now
translate

'The fortress would not yeld, its walls were fifty feet high and
constructed so solidly that no siege-engine was able to damage
it. The Tyrians disposed of the greatest technicians and
builders of war-machines of the time and they intercepted in the
air the incendiary arrows and projectiles hurled by the
catapults on the city.

One day suddenly there appeared over the Macedonian camp these
"flying shields", as they had been called, which flew in
triangular formation led by an exceedingly large one, the others
were smaller by almost a half. In all there were five. The
unknown chronicler narrates that they circled slowly over Tyre
while thousands of warriors on both sides stood and watched them
in astonishment. Suddenly from the largest "shield" came a
lightning-flash that struck the walls, these crumbled, other
flashes followed and walls and towers dissolved, as if they had
been built of mud, leaving the way open for the besiegers who
poured like an avalanche through the breeches. The "flying
shields" hovered over the city until it was completely stormed
then they very swiftly disappeared aloft, soon melting into the
blue sky.'120"

Strangely, Drake interpreted Edwards (ref. 119) and Fenoglio
(120) versions as two different cases! And he didn't understand
that Fenoglio DOESN'T quote Droysen.

5. There are also some websites like
http://www.ufon.org.uk/ufo_history.html
(this link seems to doesn't work anymore):

"329 BC:
Alexander the Great, via his historians: told of 2 strange
objects in the sky that dived repeatedly at his army as they
were attempting a river crossing. (Jaxartes River). The action
so panicked his elephants, horses, and men they had to abandon
the river crossing until the following day. They were described
as great silver shields, spitting fire around the rims.
Contributed by Thon"

There are two new informations here: year 329 BC (not 332) and
the name of the river. According to Donski, this name (Jaxartes)
is correct, but "our" battle might happened near the river
Indus. And always no reference given...

So this story remains very dubious.







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   Apr > Apr 18

                   Re: Alexander The Great & UFOs - Groff

From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 07:05:46 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 09:58:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Alexander The Great & UFOs - Groff


 >From: Bruno Mancusi <swissufo@swissufo.ch>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 11:53:05 +0200
 >Subject: Alexander The Great & UFOs

 >>From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 14:38:51 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: UFOs & Wars?

 >>>From: Thiago Luiz Ticchetti <<thiagolt@opengate.com.br>
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 11:03:54 -0300
 >>>Subject: UFOs & Wars?

 >>>I am writing article about the UFO sightings during wars -
 >>>Vietnam, Korea war, World Wars I and II, The Gulf War and even
 >>>previous wars - and would like to know if you can help by
 >>>sending informations, links or articles.

 >>I've seen references to Alexander The Great being aided by, and
 >>harassed by, "Silvery Discs" during his March to India.

 >>Can anyone tell me the original source of those stories?

 >I had an e-mails exchange in 2001 with a Macedonian historian,
 >Aleksandar Donski, about this tale. We found the following
 >references:

 >1. Frank Edwards, 'Stranger than Science', Pan, London 1963, p.
 >198 (1st US edition: 1959):

 >"Spies In The Skies

 >(...)

 >Alexander the Great was not the first to see them nor was he the
 >first to find them troublesome. He tells of two strange craft
 >that dived repeatedly at his army until the war elephants, the
 >men, and the horses all panicked and refused to cross the river
 >where the incident occurred. What did the things look like? His
 >historian describes them as great shining silvery shields,
 >spitting fire around the rims... things that came from the skies
 >and returned to the skies."

 >Unfortunately, there is no reference.

Thank you Bruno. Do you have any idea who "his historian" was?
It seems he would have recorded this account somewhere.


Thanks,

Terry








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   Apr > Apr 18

                   Re: Filer's Files #15 - 2003 - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 09:29:41 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 10:01:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #15 - 2003 - Maccabee


 >rom: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 18:34:57 +0100
 >Subject: Re: Filer's Files #15 - 2003

 >>From: James Oberg <jamesoberg@houston.rr.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 15:28:30 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Filer's Files #15 - 2003

<snip>

 >Here is an extract from Wernher von Braun's book "First Men to
 >the Moon" published by Holt, Rinehart and Winston of Canada in
 >1958:


 >"Question: What is your opinion on U.F.Os?"

 >"Answer: There is a rational and rather straight-forward
 >explanation for the great majority of sightings of unidentified
 >flying objects or 'flying saucers', as they are more familiarly
 >called. During the last ten years, official U.S. investigators
 >have tabulated about six thousand sightings. They could account
 >for all but two per cent as belonging to any of the following
 >categories: High-flying balloons of various kinds; High flying
 >aircraft illuminated by the sun after the sun had set on the
 >ground; Nightly 'Fata Morgana' type reflections in the
 >atmosphere of distant light sources on the ground; artificial
 >satellites of U.S. or Soviet origin; Meteorites and fireballs;
 >birds; the planets Venus or Jupiter; searchlights illuminating
 >cloud layers, Hoaxes perpetrated by pranksters.

 >Even the most ardent believers in flying objects of extra-
 >terrestrial origin will usually concede that most reported
 >'sightings' can be traced back to one of these sources. But it
 >is that unnacounted two per cent that makes enthusiasts cling
 >tenaciously to their conviction.

 >I cannot account for the mysterious two percent, either. But a
 >lifetime spent with testing of guided missiles has taught me to
 >be extremely careful with eye-witness accounts on rocket firings
 >running into some in-flight trouble.

It is amusing to note the reference to "2%." This is essentially
the same percentage (2 - 3%) as was told to the FBI, in July,
1952, that "have never been satisfactorily explained." The
person who told this to the FBI worked in the office of Air
Force Intelligence.

(From an FBI document dated July 29, 1952.)

See also page 232 of 'The UFO-FBI Connection'.








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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Apr > Apr 18

                    Re: Filer's Files #15 - 2003 - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 11:44:33 -0300
Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 19:01:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #15 - 2003 - Ledger


 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 09:29:41 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Filer's Files #15 - 2003

 >>rom: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 18:34:57 +0100
 >>Subject: Re: Filer's Files #15 - 2003

 >>>From: James Oberg <jamesoberg@houston.rr.com>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 15:28:30 -0500
 >>>Subject: Re: Filer's Files #15 - 2003

 ><snip>

 >>Here is an extract from Wernher von Braun's book "First Men to
 >>the Moon" published by Holt, Rinehart and Winston of Canada in
 >>1958:

 >>"Question: What is your opinion on U.F.Os?"

 >>"Answer: There is a rational and rather straight-forward
 >>explanation for the great majority of sightings of unidentified
 >>flying objects or 'flying saucers', as they are more familiarly
 >>called. During the last ten years, official U.S. investigators
 >>have tabulated about six thousand sightings. They could account
 >>for all but two per cent as belonging to any of the following
 >>categories: High-flying balloons of various kinds; High flying
 >>aircraft illuminated by the sun after the sun had set on the
 >>ground; Nightly 'Fata Morgana' type reflections in the
 >>atmosphere of distant light sources on the ground; artificial
 >>satellites of U.S. or Soviet origin; Meteorites and fireballs;
 >>birds; the planets Venus or Jupiter; searchlights illuminating
 >>cloud layers, Hoaxes perpetrated by pranksters.

 >>Even the most ardent believers in flying objects of extra-
 >>terrestrial origin will usually concede that most reported
 >>'sightings' can be traced back to one of these sources. But it
 >>is that unnacounted two per cent that makes enthusiasts cling
 >>tenaciously to their conviction.

 >>I cannot account for the mysterious two percent, either. But a
 >>lifetime spent with testing of guided missiles has taught me to
 >>be extremely careful with eye-witness accounts on rocket firings
 >>running into some in-flight trouble.

 >It is amusing to note the reference to "2%." This is
 >essentially the same percentage (2 - 3%) as was told to the FBI,
 >in July, 1952, that "have never been satisfactorily explained."
 >The person who told this to the FBI worked in the office of Air
 >Force Intelligence.

 >(From an FBI document dated July 29, 1952.)
 >See also page 232 of 'The UFO-FBI Connection'.

Hi Bruce,

I suspect the 2% figure was used to support the oft toted idea
that the unidentifieds or true unknowns just needed real
investigation to prove that they too were misinterpretation of
known phenomena. It's a nonesense figure as many of us have
discovered. To me it appears to be closer to 25 % where some
such as Brad Sparks have placed it higher at 30% or over-at
least in the Blue Book cases. In this case then it's easier to
say that the "2%" were probably identifiable but there just
wasn't enough data or resources to prove that. It's a crap
figure, and really unsupportable.


Don Ledger










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                   Re: Alexander The Great & UFOs - Hebert

From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 10:02:28 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 19:06:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Alexander The Great & UFOs - Hebert


 >From: Bruno Mancusi <swissufo@swissufo.ch>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 11:53:05 +0200
 >Subject: Alexander The Great & UFOs

 >>From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 14:38:51 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: UFOs & Wars?

<snip>

 >>Can anyone tell me the original source of those stories?

 >I had an e-mails exchange in 2001 with a Macedonian historian,
 >Aleksandar Donski, about this tale. We found the following
 >references:

 >So this story remains very dubious.


Whatcha wanna bet it shows up in print again anyway?

A. Hebert








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              MC Target's Experience Like One Of Filer's Files

From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 15:29:30 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 19:40:25 -0400
Subject: MC Target's Experience Like One Of Filer's Files


Hi -

This item is about the excerpted report from Filer's Files:

 >From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 17:23:25 -0400
 >Subject: Filer's Files #16 -- 2003

<snip>

 >GEORGIA STRANGE LIGHTS IN THE CAR

 >MERIWETHER COUNTY -- On Sunday, April 13, 2003, my brother and
 >his wife were driving in my Ford Explorer on a Highway 41.  We
 >left the town of Warm Springs, and headed northwest to Greenville
 >on a two lane road that is very isolated rural road. At the
 >"blink of an eye," a hoard of bright red lights manifested inside
 >my SUV.  I panicked initially, and slowed my speed to around 30
 >miles per hour.  I felt some sense of security as I had two
 >passengers with me.  My sister-in-law yelled out, "Pull over, are
 >those police lights?"  There was no police car and no other
 >activity.  It was 9:15 PM, there were hundreds of extremely
 >erratic small red strobing lights. Some had short laser-like beam
 >qualities as might be seen in some high-end disco club.  All
 >three of us announced we were all experiencing this event.  I
 >felt this was not of  this World!  My sister-in-law was in a
 >panorama of bright red lights, in the back seat, but none of the
 >lights were in the  trunk area.  The same lights were on my
 >brorther's feet and legs, the floor board was a hue of red.  I
 >looked out the window and over the dash board onto the hood and
 >did not see any activity outside.   This event lasted about 20
 >seconds and ceased, as quick as the onset, when a vehicle
 >appeared in the distance.  Thanks to Peter Davenport
 >http://www.nuforc.org/

Members of my current-day in-home/in-community  mind control
email forum experience some 'exotic' effects, sometimes similar
to those observed by UFO spotters and abductees.  Here below is
one such report from our group which is a good match for the
report above.  This took place in a jail:

 >I was in custody for a perp-controlled vandalism about 23
 >years ago. I  was the target of a "laser dot", I believe;
 >about 1/4" in diameter, and red in color, following me around
 >for about 10 seconds.

 >The "laser dot" was completely round and red, and was
 >suspended in mid-air moving around, out in front of my
 >face about 15",  then out in front of me about 20", in
 >varying positions.

Another interesting effect that is sometimes seen in UFO reports
is that some of our members report "blue beams" shining and
moving around inside their homes.  Those events tend to be most
common in Australia and New Zealand.  I haven't heard of any
blue beams in conjunction with levitations, though a few (about
a dozen) have had levitation incidents, one witnessed.

Most of our exotic effects occur when witnesses are not
present.


Eleanor White










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                Re: Ann Druffell's 'Firestorm:...' - Rubtsov

From: Vladimir Rubtsov <tolimak@mail.ru>
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 00:31:44 +0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 19:46:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Ann Druffell's 'Firestorm:...' - Rubtsov


 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 15:01:29 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Ann Druffell's 'Firestorm:...'


Dear John,

Glad to hear from you - and sorry for not replying sooner: I had to
leave Kharkov for a few days!


 >Hello Vladimir, When I visited your website I noticed that Eddie
 >Bullard is a member of your 'advisory' staff. I would like to ask if
 >there is any active UFO/alien/abduction related research being
 >conducted by members of your group? I would be very interested in
 >comparing notes. I am wondering how many differences or similarities
 >may exist between Russian and American reports of UFO abduction.

Yes, we do study some contact/abduction cases in Russia and
Ukraine - although the scope of this research can hardly be
considered as sufficient. Some results, as well as raw
materials, have been presented on the pages of RIAP Bulletin (In
particular, Vol. 8, No. 1-2: "A Strange Visit... with Possible
Consequences", by Valeriy Kukushkin; Vol. 7, No. 2-3: "There
_Were_ in the USSR Abduction Cases and UFO Landings!", by Dr.
Victor Zhuravlev).

Several years ago I presented a paper "Alien Contacts and
Abduction Experiences: a Look frim the C.I.S." at the MUFON 1994
International UFO Symposium (published in its Proceedings). It
dealt with the question of differences and similarities between
Russian and American contact/abduction reports.

 >Welcome to the List.

Thanks a lot indeed - and I must confess that this List is at
the same time the most professional and the "most alive"
discussion List in the field of ufology I have come across on
the Web.

Best indeed!

Sincerely,

Vladimir Rubtsov, Ph.D.
Director,
Research Institute on Anomalous Phenomena,
Kharkov, Ukraine
http://www.geocities.com/riap777/








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                   Re: Filer's Files #16 -- 2003 - Rubtsov

From: Vladimir Rubtsov <tolimak@mail.ru>
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 00:34:17 +0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 19:51:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #16 -- 2003 - Rubtsov


 >From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 17:23:25 -0400
 >Subject: Filer's Files #16 -- 2003

<snip>

 >PRAVDA REVEALS ATTACKS ON UFOs AND KGB RESEARCH

<snip>

 >Pravda also reports the KGB ordered 4 million soldiers to watch the
 >sky in search of UFOs until the dissolution of the KGB and the
 >Soviet Union in 1990.. Yuri Andropov, leader of the Ex- Soviet
 >Union's KGB showed an acute interest in the UFO and ordered the
 >creation of a program that lasted 13 years that forced each soldier
 >to monitor the Russian sky in search of sightings. Igor Sinitsin,
 >who worked with Andropov for six years in the Politburo, revealed
 >that the Soviet leader maintained a file on the UFOs in his daily
 >agenda. Sinitsin added that the KGB controlled what was published on
 >this subject in many other countries. Both military and civilian UFO
 >research centers were created under the direction of the KGB. Thanks
 >to: http://english.pravda.ru/society/2003/04/01/45389.html

For more specific first-hand information concerning the 13-year
Soviet official UFO research program, please see the paper
"History of State-Directed UFO Research in the USSR", by Dr.
Yuliy Platov and Colonel (Rtd.) Boris Sokolov, published in RIAP
Bulletin, 1999, Vol. 5, No. 3-4, at:

http://www.geocities.com/riap777/toc.html

There are also some thought-provoking comments by bulletin
readers who also participated in this UFO study program.

All the very best!


Sincerely,

Vladimir Rubtsov, Ph.D.
Director,
Research Institute on Anomalous Phenomena
Kharkov Ukraine

http://www.geocities.com/riap777/






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               Re: CI: Iraq and Cydonia: Two New Posts - Adams

From: Eric Adams <ek.adams@virgin.net>
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 00:19:00 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 19:54:13 -0400
Subject: Re: CI: Iraq and Cydonia: Two New Posts - Adams


 >From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 22:50:35 -0700 (PDT)
 >Subject: CI: Iraq and Cydonia: Two New Posts

 >Cydonian Imperative
 >4-18-03
 >A Brief Note Regarding "Iraq Body Count"... by Mac Tonnies

 >See: http://www.mactonnies.com/cydonia.html (page 37)

 >There has been some minor objection to the inclusion of the
 >"Iraq Body Count" banner that appears on this site.
 >Specifically, it has been interpreted as a political gesture. It
 >is not. The Cydonian Imperative is nonpartisan and I've avoided
 >any mention of the Iraq conflict in its pages. I have included
 >the Iraq Body Count simply because it is an accurate asessment
 >of real events. For those interested in the methodology used to
 >arrive at the "mininum" and "maximum" civilian casualties, a
 >careful look at the site should suffice.

It certainly is not accurate and the skewed methodology is shown
for any that care to view.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/002/554awdqo.asp

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/001/565otmps.asp

http://www.techcentralstation.com/1051/defensewrapper.jsp?PID=1051-350&CID=1051-
040703D

http://www.techcentralstation.com/1051/defensewrapper.jsp?PID=1051-350&CID=1051-
032603A

http://www.techcentralstation.com/1051/defensewrapper.jsp?PID=1051-350&CID=1051-
030402A


- Eric






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              Re: CI: Iraq and Cydonia: Two New Posts - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 10:58:20 -0300
Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 18:58:26 -0400
Subject: Re: CI: Iraq and Cydonia: Two New Posts - Ledger


 >From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 22:50:35 -0700 (PDT)
 >Subject: CI: Iraq and Cydonia: Two New Posts

 >Cydonian Imperative
 >4-18-03
 >A Brief Note Regarding "Iraq Body Count"... by Mac Tonnies

 >See: http://www.mactonnies.com/cydonia.html (page 37)

 >There has been some minor objection to the inclusion of the
 >"Iraq Body Count" banner that appears on this site.
 >Specifically, it has been interpreted as a political gesture. It
 >is not. The Cydonian Imperative is nonpartisan and I've avoided
 >any mention of the Iraq conflict in its pages. I have included
 >the Iraq Body Count simply because it is an accurate asessment
 >of real events. For those interested in the methodology used to
 >arrive at the "mininum" and "maximum" civilian casualties, a
 >careful look at the site should suffice.


Hi Mac,

Since you brought it up and to keep it in perspective why don't
you show Hussein's Iraqi body count beside the war count?

Don







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                          A Couple of UFOIA Updates

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 15:01:22 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 19:11:17 -0400
Subject: A Couple of UFOIA Updates



Leaked' evidence fuels the FOIA reactor.
         -- Larry W. Bryant (April 9, 2003)



1.  From the U. S. Department of Transportation's Federal
Aviation Administration comes this April 4, 2003, reply from
Tracy Paquin (executive manager for regions and center
operations):

"This is in response to your January 22, 2003, FOIA request for
copies of any correspondence between Congress and the Federal
Aviation Administration relating to the July 26, 2002, incident
over Waldorf, Maryland, for which United States Air Force jets
were scrambled.

"Regarding item 3 of your request, a search was conducted in the
Office of the Administrator, Correspondence Control Unit, which
maintains a database of all congressional correspondence for the
FAA.  This office did not locate any documents pertaining to
your specific request.  Your request has also been forwarded to
other FAA offices, and those offices will respond to you
directly."


2.  From the FBI field office in Pittsburgh comes this April 1,
2003, reply from their special agent in charge (Kenneth T.
McCabe):

"This is in response to your March 24, 2003 FOIA request [for
any/all FBI-held records about the Kecksburg, Pa., UFO-
crash/retrieval case of Dec. 9, 1965], which was received... on
March 26, 2003.

"With the exception of a previous FOIA request, a search of the
automated and manual indices to the central records system as
maintained by the Pittsburgh Office revealed no records
responsive to your request."


[LWB Note:  Why McCabe chose not to furnish me a copy of that
other person's FOIA request may remain almost as much a mystery
as the crash-retrieval case itself. Must I now submit to him a
supplementary request for a copy of that particular "record"
(plus all other contents of its case file)?  Stay tuned.]








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                  Re: Alexander The Great & UFOs - Mancusi

From: Bruno Mancusi <swissufo@swissufo.ch>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 17:15:08 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 19:14:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Alexander The Great & UFOs - Mancusi


 >From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 07:05:46 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Alexander The Great & UFOs

<snip>

 >Thank you Bruno. Do you have any idea who "his historian" was?
 >It seems he would have recorded this account somewhere.

No, sorry.

Bruno







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                   Re: Filer's Files #16 -- 2003 - Hebert

From: Amy Hebert <yellowrose129@attbi.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 11:20:33 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 19:16:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #16 -- 2003 - Hebert


 >From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 17:23:25 -0400
 >Subject: Filer's Files #16 -- 2003

<snip>

 >NAJAF -- According to Joseph Trainor editro of UFO Roundup, on
 >March 27, 2003, an oblong luminous UFO hovered over the holy
 >city of Najaf located about 60 miles south of Baghdad not far
 >from the ancient city of Babylon. A photo showing the unknown
 >object, with a G.I. of the 3rd Brigade, 101st Airborne Division
 >pointing at it with his forefinger, appeared in the newspaper
 >Euronews. UFO Roundup correspondent Mohammed Hajj al-Amdar
 >stated, "The UFO's appearance caused great excitement among the
 >Shiites who saw it. They said it had come from Allah's Gardens
 >of Bliss to protect the Tomb of Ali."

See reference to "Pentagon, Psyops and Holographic Technology"
below.

<snip>

 >What they didn't report was that yesterday, after the
 >weather had cleared, the Marine group that was mired the worst
 >looked out at the plain they were just about to cross. What did
 >they see? Hundreds if not thousands of anti-tank and anti-
 >personnel mines had been uncovered by the wind and then washed
 >off by the rain. If they had proceeded as planned, no doubt,
 >many lives would have been lost. As it was, they simply drove
 >around the mine fields and let the demolition teams destroy
 >them."

God, technology or a little of both?

Pentagon, Psyops and Holographic Technology
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/6583/project068.html

"Weather as a Force Multiplier: Owning the Weather in 2025" -
  Research paper presented to the US Air Force, August, 1996.

http://www.au.af.mil/au/2025/volume3/chap15/v3c15-1.htm

Electromagnetic Implications Of Modern Warfare Technology

http://www.islamonline.net/English/Science/2002/04/article05.shtml

Oh, say, can you see?


A. Hebert








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                British Columbia Sighting Reports - 03/04-03

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 09:43:10 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 19:18:47 -0400
Subject: British Columbia Sighting Reports - 03/04-03


McKenzie, British Columbia

Date: March 19, 2003
Time: approx:4:15 a.m.
Toll Free Hotline:
Possible meteor:

A single witness, a logging truck operator was coming back from
picking up a load of logs when we reported to me, seeing a
bright flash of white light directly in front of him at a fairly
high altitude. When it caught his attention he watched the light
heading in a northwesterly direction, from his location towards
the south end of Williston Lake. His thoughts were that whatever
it was, was a meteor as he said he sees a number of them while
working in so many darkened hours. What the witness found
strange about the sighting was before the light disappeared it
changed direction slightly. After this change in it's flight
path, he said it was gone. Just vanished. The sighting lasted
approx: no more than 3 to 4 seconds. At arms length he said the
light may have been the size of a pea. No sound was heard coming
from the light, but this would be no surprise anyway due to him
being in the cab of his truck, and they can be rather noisy. He
wondered if I had any other reports of this type on the day.
(HBCC UFO Note: I am not aware of any other reports from the
area where this took place, but if anyone should have had a
sighting on the day in question, and around the time provided
above I would appreciate hearing from you.

Thank you to the witness for his report.

Brian
HBCC UFO Research

-----------
Terrace, British Columbia

Date: April 3, 2003
Time: 10:55 p.m.
Telephone report:
2 witnesses:
Flying Cross?

I received a call from a Terrace, B.C. resident who reported
something strange to me. Now after listening to what the witness
had was reporting, I started thinking back to 2002 when I
received a similar report from Terrace, B.C.

Two witnesses, just about a 1/2 of a kilometer west of Terrace
watched and extremely large object fly very low over the Skeena
River. They said it was overcast that night when they saw this
"thing". What they reported seeing was a huge dark colored
object in the shape of a cross. The witness I chatted with said
the body of the object was certainly longer than, say the wing
span. It moved very slowly, no sound what so ever coming from it
and on the bottom of the object it looked as if there were
panels of colored lights on these panels. These panels number
some 6 in total. The witness also mentioned that they could not
see how high, or  the thickness would have been to the body of
this object. Just to dark, and with the colored lights being so
bright on the bottom of it, it obscured the view to some degree.
This sighting lasted approx: 8 to 9 seconds before they lost
sight of it due to the tree line blocking their view. (HBCC UFO
Note: I asked if he could give me an approx: size of this craft,
he thought about it for a bit and said it might have been the
size of a 737 jet airliner. I also asked if any of these colored
lights on the object were flashing, he said no.  I don't know
what to make of this one, but after going back reading a report
from 2002 I received, it sounds like it may be close to what was
reported to me last year. I haven't been able to talk to the
second witness as of yet. I hope to, but no luck so far.

Thank you to the witness for their report.

Brian
HBCC UFO Research

----------
Houston, British Columbia

Date:  April 14, 2003
Time: approx: 11:20 p.m.
Local Call:

A witness called to say while driving home from Perow, B.C. to
Houston they witnessed a single red light flying rather quickly
from the east heading west and very low. She told me that the
red light was flying just over the top of China Nose Mountain.
Actually a one point from her location, she watched the light
fly over the tops of the mountains, but she claims that when it
almost reached China Nose Mountain it rose up rather quickly to
get over the peak and continued on at the same altitude after
rising up to get over China Nose until she lost sight of it.
This sighting lasted approx: 5 to 6 seconds. Just a dot of red
light.

(HBCC UFO Note: I know exactly where she was when she observed
the light, and you overlook the valley below and have great view
of the mountains across the valley from Highway #16. The Bulkley
River and a lot of farm land is below in the valley. I did some
quick checking and as far as I know, no flights would have been
around that area at that time. If it was a small personal
aircraft the person flying it would have been crazy to fly in
that area, or  to be honest any other area around here at this
time of night and flying so low. So what this was, is anyone's
guess. Mind you I have had a number of reports just like this
coming from local residents over the past years. One other
comment I will make on this report. Due to the view she would
have had when she first saw it, the light had to have moving at
a extremly fast rate of speed. The view of the mountains she was
looking toward, you can see for miles and miles from her
location on the highway. I would certainly rule out a small
aircraft in this case.

Thank you to the witness for their report.


Brian
HBCC UFO Research






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                   Re: CI: Iraq and Cydonia: Two New Posts

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 19:03:40 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 16:03:28 -0400
Subject: Re: CI: Iraq and Cydonia: Two New Posts


 >From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto
 ><ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 10:58:20 -0300
 >Subject: Re: CI: Iraq and Cydonia: Two New Posts

 >Hi Mac,

 >Since you brought it up and to keep it in
 >perspective why don't
 >you show Hussein's Iraqi body count beside the war
 >count?

 >Don

Hi Don,

I would love to, but I haven't been able to find one. I'd settle
for a general "Pointless Death Meter."  I imagine it would look
something like a stock ticker, except much more rapid.




=====
 >Mac Tonnies
macbot@yahoo.com

Explore MTVI @ http://www.mactonnies.com

Posthuman Blues: http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com (updated daily)






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              Re: CI: Iraq and Cydonia: Two New Posts - Tonnies

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 19:16:35 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 18:48:48 -0400
Subject: Re: CI: Iraq and Cydonia: Two New Posts - Tonnies


 >From: Eric Adams <ek.adams@virgin.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 00:19:00 +0100
 >Subject: Re: CI: Iraq and Cydonia: Two New Posts

 >>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto
 ><ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 22:50:35 -0700 (PDT)
 >>Subject: CI: Iraq and Cydonia: Two New Posts

 >>Cydonian Imperative
 >>4-18-03
 >>A Brief Note Regarding "Iraq Body Count"... by Mac Tonnies

 >>See: http://www.mactonnies.com/cydonia.html (page 37)

 >>There has been some minor objection to the inclusion of the
 >>"Iraq Body Count" banner that appears on this site.
 >>Specifically, it has been interpreted as a political gesture.
 >>It is not. The Cydonian Imperative is nonpartisan and I've
 >>avoided any mention of the Iraq conflict in its pages. I have
 >>included the Iraq Body Count simply because it is an accurate
 >>asessment of real events. For those interested in the
 >>methodology used to arrive at the "mininum" and "maximum"
 >>civilian casualties, a careful look at the site should
 >>suffice.

 >It certainly is not accurate and the skewed methodology is
 >shown for any that care to view.


Obviously, calculating a civilian "body count" is tough. As one
of your links points out, the fog of war is thick.

I chose the IBC because, precise or not (and I think its
estimate is actually close to the truth), its methodology is
laid bare for inspection on the organization's site.

Our military doesn't tally civilian casualties. The IBC is, I
think, an honest attempt to do what others are reluctant to do.
I don't think it represents the faction that "wants" civilian
casualties to justify its condemnation of the Iraq strike.

That said, I hope even its "mimimum" figure is somehow
grotesquely inflated.


Mac Tonnies







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   Apr > Apr 19

                   Re: Alexander The Great & UFOs - Groff

From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 21:30:33 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 18:57:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Alexander The Great & UFOs - Groff



 >From: Bruno Mancusi <swissufo@swissufo.ch>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto (<ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 17:15:08 +0200
 >Subject: Re: Alexander The Great & UFOs

 >>From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 07:05:46 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Alexander The Great & UFOs

 ><snip>

 >>Thank you Bruno. Do you have any idea who "his historian" was?
 >>It seems he would have recorded this account somewhere.

 >No, sorry.

 >Bruno

A little digging and I found his name was Callisthenes, nephew
of Aristotle.

He is credited with writing "The Deeds of Alexander" but
apparently it hasn't survived. There are references to it by
other authors but it seems that if Callisthenes had really
written about "Silvery Discs", the original writings are gone
and are therefore unverifiable.


Terry Groff

UFO Tools - www.terrygroff.com/mufon






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                   Re: Alexander The Great & UFOs - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 01:12:57 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 19:01:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Alexander The Great & UFOs - Hatch


 >From: Bruno Mancusi <swissufo@swissufo.ch>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 11:53:05 +0200
 >Subject: Alexander The Great & UFOs

 >>From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 14:38:51 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: UFOs & Wars?

 >>>From: Thiago Luiz Ticchetti <<thiagolt@opengate.com.br>
 >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>>Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 11:03:54 -0300
 >>>Subject: UFOs & Wars?

 >>>I am writing article about the UFO sightings during wars -
 >>>Vietnam, Korea war, World Wars I and II, The Gulf War and even
 >>>previous wars - and would like to know if you can help by
 >>>sending informations, links or articles.

 >>I've seen references to Alexander The Great being aided by, and
 >>harassed by, "Silvery Discs" during his March to India.

 >>Can anyone tell me the original source of those stories?

 >I had an e-mails exchange in 2001 with a Macedonian historian,
 >Aleksandar Donski, about this tale. We found the following
 >references:

 >1. Frank Edwards, 'Stranger than Science', Pan, London 1963, p.
 >198 (1st US edition: 1959): "Spies In The Skies

<snip>

 >Unfortunately, there is no reference.

 >2. Alberto Fenoglio, "Cronistoria su oggetti volanti del passato
 >- Appunti per una clipeostoria", 'Clypeus' #9, 1st Semester
 >1966, p. 7:

 >(See English translation by Drake below.)
 >No reference, too.

<snip>

 >3. Gordon Creighton, "A new FSR catalogue - The effects of UFOs
 >on Animals, Birds and smaller creatures - Part 1", Flying Saucer
 >Review, vol. 16, No. 1, Jan-Feb 1970, pp. 26-28:

<snip>

 >"Frank Edwards, the noted American UFO reporter ..
 >.. He exasperates us by claiming ..

<snip>

 >.. One day there appeared over the Macedonian camp these
 >"flying shields" ..

<snip>

 >Strangely, Drake interpreted Edwards (ref. 119) and Fenoglio
 >(120) versions as two different cases! And he didn't understand
 >that Fenoglio DOESN'T quote Droysen.

<snip>


 >So this story remains very dubious.


Hello Bruno, Chris, Terry, Thiago ...


Dubious? I'd use a stronger word than that.

After a hard week of work, I'm not at my best [burp!] but one
thing shouts out at me.

Unless I have this wrong (the chronology or sources is inportant
here) most everyone copied one another, with embellishments
perhaps, and without any creditable ancient historian who can be
researched.

Worse yet, the name Antonio Fenoglio keeps coming up. This alone
should set off alarm bells. Here are some of the jewels
attributed to Antonio Fenoglio:

1790: Alencon, France. See details on my Discredited List:
http://www.larryhatch.net/DISCRED.html

1961: Mothership and scout craft disable entire Russian missile
site:

http://www.space-2001.net/html/russia.html

[Scroll down to Air Alert]

1940s: Nazi UFOs all over the place. Source? Why its Pinocchio,
I mean Fenoglio again:

http://www.naziufos.com/NEWSCL/BELLUZZO.HTM


Biblical Times: King of Ninevah treated to a UFO ride. [in
French]

http://archie.homelinux.net:8080/archives/000239.html


The UFO Roundup version reads:

"According to Italian ufologist Alberto Fenoglio, In excavations
in Nineveh there was discovered in the library of King
Assurbanipal clay cylinders on which is described a voyage to
the sky. It narrates how King Eitan, who lived about 5,000 years
ago, called 'The Good King,' was taken as an honoured guest on a
flying ship in the form of a shield (i.e. circular--J.T.), which
landed in a square behind the royal palace, rotating, surrounded
by a vortex of flames.<< "


Here's are some more Fenogliditas:

in Italian:
  http://www.edolimpia.it/lev_1/mistery/ufo/ufo_cover.htm
  http://www.ufoitalia.net/libri.htm

in German:
  http://www.acolina.de/content/ufo/ufopsych.htm

.. and the list goes on.

I found these in a quick Google browse using the two words
Fenoglio and UFO. I didn't go looking for "ancient astronauts",
its getting late.

How much evidence does it take to convince people that Fenoglio
is a pathological fabulist? If he presented his stories as
fiction he could be credited with a good imagination. But, he
doesn't.

Dubious? How about 'shot to sh**' ?

I better cool off with another beer. I have some nice cold
Pilsner Urquell, and some Grolshe to wash it down with.


Very best wishes

- Larry Hatch

PS: I also have some good English stuff just in case.






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   Apr > Apr 19

                    Re: Filer's Files #15 - 2003 - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 02:28:30 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 19:04:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #15 - 2003 - Hatch


 >From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 11:44:33 -0300
 >Subject: Re: Filer's Files #15 - 2003

 >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 09:29:41 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: Filer's Files #15 - 2003

<snip>

 >>>Here is an extract from Wernher von Braun's book "First Men to
 >>>the Moon" published by Holt, Rinehart and Winston of Canada in
 >>>1958:

 >>>"Question: What is your opinion on U.F.Os?"

 >>>"Answer: There is a rational and rather straight-forward
 >>>explanation for the great majority of sightings of unidentified
 >>>flying objects or 'flying saucers', as they are more familiarly
 >>>called. During the last ten years, official U.S. investigators
 >>>have tabulated about six thousand sightings. They could account
 >>>for all but two per cent as belonging to any of the following
 >>>categories: [burp!]


 >Hi Bruce,

 >I suspect the 2% figure was used to support the oft toted idea
 >that the unidentifieds or true unknowns just needed real
 >investigation to prove that they too were misinterpretation of
 >known phenomena. It's a nonesense figure as many of us have
 >discovered. To me it appears to be closer to 25 % where some
 >such as Brad Sparks have placed it higher at 30% or over-at
 >least in the Blue Book cases. In this case then it's easier to
 >say that the "2%" were probably identifiable but there just
 >wasn't enough data or resources to prove that. It's a crap
 >figure, and really unsupportable.

 >Don Ledger


Hello Don:

I have a tolerant, if somewhat bitter view of the 2% figure.

My shoot-from-the-hip guess is that somebody tossed out the 2%
(as unidentified) figure rhetorically, i.e. also shooting from
the hip.

Its quite possible that von Braun simply took that figure and
borrowed it, without really looking into UFO matters. My gut
feel is that von Braun simply had no real input or interest in
UFO matters.

I don't see glaring signs of conspiracy etc., just a sort of
cosmic laziness and disinterest. vB had a manuscript deadline to
meet after all. He was probably pestered to death with UFO
questions. He wanted it off his desk like most any AF General
would.  Business as usual.


Best wishes

- Larry






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                              Magonia Exchange

From: Chris Aubeck <caubeck@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 19:16:29 +0100 (BST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 19:07:42 -0400
Subject: Magonia Exchange


Dear List,

We are currently setting up a pre-1947 UFO
discussion/information exchange list. Subscription is open, but
strictly limited, to those willing to contribute information
(cases) to a common database.

To join, please send a message to the following address:

magoniaexchange@yahoo.com

Once the list and database has been created you will receive
notification of your membership.

Regards,

Chris Aubeck







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   Apr > Apr 20

                    DOI Digs Its FOIA Grave Even Deeper!

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net>
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 03:02:41 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 19:12:59 -0400
Subject: DOI Digs Its FOIA Grave Even Deeper!


TO:   Mr. Larry W. Bryant
       Director, Washington DC Citizens Against UFO Secrecy
       3518 Martha Custis Drive
       Alexandria, VA 223023 [sic]

FROM: Ms. Sue Ellen Sloca
       Office of the Secretary FOIA Officer
       U. S. Department of the Interior
       Washington, DC 20240

DATE: April 16, 2003

Dear Mr. Bryant:

On March 7, 2003, you filed Freedom of Information Act (FOIA)
request OS-2003-00559, asking for "a copy of the entire contents
to date of the BLM-maintained case file on my original request
and subsequent appeal. Armed with that information, I can
proceed with presenting my case fully to appropriate
congressional bodies: that your department's FOIA-request
processing system has at least one serious, unacceptable flaw
that can be resolved, in part, by congressional intervention."

On April 8, 2003, the Office of the Secretary FOIA office
acknowledged your request, advised you of your fee status under
the FOIA, advised you that the FOIA is not free, and asked you
to supply written assurance of your willingness to pay the full
billable cost of processing your FOIA request should your
entitlements as an "other-use requester" not be sufficient to
cover it.

On April 11, 2003, you wrote "contesting your arbitrary labeling
[of] that request as an "other-use request" and asking for a
waiver of all FOIA processing fees:

(1) "Please note that I've submitted the request in my capacity
as a member of the UFO-awareness press (mainly as a columnist
for the Internet website of http://www.ufocity.com , which is
operated by Central Park Media in New York City; and as a
contributor to the website of the public-interest group Citizens
Against UFO Secrecy -- caus.org ). Of course, I readily can
augment my requestor status by citing my role as director of
governmental affairs for the internationally constituted Mutual
UFO Network, Inc. (a "501C(3)" public charity whose chief aim is
to help educate the public about UFO reality)."

(2) "But regardless of how anyone chooses to categorize my
status, the obvious public-interest nature of the request
outweighs any agency effort to marginalize it via arbitrary
pigeonholing. As you are, no doubt, aware: at least PART of the
FOIA-processing system IS "free" whenever an agency chooses to
waive records-search/review fees. Accordingly, I hereby ask that
your agency waive all such records-search/review fees incident
to your fulfilling my FOIA request of March 7, 2003. Your
granting this fee-waiver request would benefit your department's
public image and credibility -- inasmuch as the prompt, full
disclosure of the sought-for FOIA-case-file records would, by
definition, contribute to the public's understanding (and
evaluation) of the DOI/BLM policy/programs/practices inherent in
the department's response to controversial FOIA requests."

After a review of the additional information provided in your
April 11, 2003 letter, we find no compelling reason to revise
our classification of your request as an "other-use request."
You have not provided us with documentation attesting to your
employment by an organization that is organized and operated to
publish or broadcast news. You have also not provided us with
documentation sufficient to establish your credentials as a
"free-lance journalist." Under our regulations (43 CFR 2.3(k)),
"free-lance journalist means a representative of the news media
who is able to demonstrate a solid basis for expecting
publication through a news organization, even though not
actually employed by it. A publication contract or past record
of publication, or evidence of a specific free-lance assignment
from a news organization may indicate a solid basis for
expecting publication."

We also find that your request does not qualify for a waiver of
all FOIA processing fees. The Department of the Interior's
regulations state that "bureaus will waive fees (in whole or
part) if disclosure of all or part of the information is in the
public interest because its release (1) Is likely to contribute
significantly to public understanding of the operations or
activities of the Government; and (2) Is not primarily in the
commercial interest of the requester." (43 CFR 2.19(b)) However,
your request does not contain sufficient evidence to support
these criteria.

The Department considers the following factors when determining
if disclosure of information is likely to contribute
significantly to public understanding of the operations or
activities of the Government:

(1) Does the record concern the operations or activities of the
Government?

(2) If a record concerns the operations or activities of the
Government, is its disclosure likely to contribute to public
understanding of these operations and activities? Is the focus
of the requester on contribution to public understanding of the
operations or activities of the Government?

(3) If there is likely to be a contribution to public
understanding, will that contribution be significant? A
contribution to public understanding will be significant if the
information disclosed is new, clearly supports public oversight
of Department operations, including the quality of Department
activities and the effect of policy and regulations on public
health and safety, or otherwise confirms or clarifies data on
past or present operations of the Department.

Although the documents that you requested concern the operations
or activities of the Government, insofar as they deal with the
Government's processing of a Freedom of Information Act request,
their disclosure to the public would not be likely to make a
significant contribution to public understanding of these
operations or activities for the following reasons:

(A) Despite the fact that you described yourself as a "member of
the UFO-awareness press (mainly as a columnist for the Internet
website of http://www.ufocity.com . . . and a contributor to the
website of the public-interest group Citizens Against UFO
Secrecy," we have no documented reason to believe that you have
the ability to ensure the dissemination of the documents
requested to the public at large or a reasonably broad audience
of persons interested in the subject. We could find no evidence
either of prior publication of your written work by any of the
organizations cited on their websites nor of future, forthcoming
publications based on your current request for documents.
(FOOTNOTE: On accessing the website UFOcity.com, we found the
following message: "We are sorry to report that we have had a
catastrophic computer crash and lost a tremendous amount of
data, most of which we will be unable to recover. This includes
our member lists and passwords." On accessing the website of the
Citizens Against UFO Secrecy, we found the following message:
"The CAUS set [sic] site is no longer being updated.")

(B) The documents that you requested are of a routine nature,
relating to the processing of an ordinary FOIA request and
appeal. We have no reason to believe, nor have you articulated a
reason for us to believe, that their disclosure would contribute
anything of interest to the public with respect to public
oversight of Department operations, including the quality of
Department activities and the effect of policy and regulations
on public health and safety.

For these reasons, your request fails to meet our base
requirements for granting a fee waiver. (FOOTNOTE: Because we
have no reason to believe that disclsoure of the documents
requested would make a significant contribution to public
understanding of the operations or activities of the government,
there is no need to determine if you have a commercial interest
in their disclosure.) Therefore, your request for a fee waiver
is denied.

Cindy Cafaro, Attorney-Advisor with the Office of the Solicitor,
was consulted in reaching this decision. Sue Ellen Sloca, Office
of the Secretary FOIA Officer, is responsible for making this
decision.

If you believe that the decision to deny your request for a fee
waiver is incorrect, you may file an FOIA appeal by writing to
the FOIA Appeals Officer, Office of the Assistant Secretary --
  Policy, Management and Budget, U. S. Department of the
Interior, 1849 C Street, NW, Mail Stop 5312, MIB, Washington,
D.C. 20240. Your appeal letter must be received no later than 30
calendar days (excluding Saturdays, Sundays and legal holidays)
after the date of our response (this letter.) Your appeal letter
must be marked, both on its envelope and at the top of its first
page, with the legend "FREEDOM OF INFORMATION APPEAL." Your
appeal letter must be accompanied by a copy of your original
FOIA request (a copy of which is enclosed with our response, for
your convenience,) and a copy of this letter, along with a brief
explanation of why you believe that this decision is in error.

Insofar as our regulations require that we not start processing
a FOIA request until all fee issues have been satisfactorily
addressed, we will close our file on your request unless we
receive written assurance of your willingness to pay the fees
that are likely to be incurred in the processing of your FOIA
request, should your entitlements as an "other-use requester"
not be sufficient to cover it, in 20 working days from the date
of this letter. (43 CFR 2.18(d))

If you have any questions regarding any of the issues discussed
in this letter, you may contact me by phone at 202-208-6045, by
fax at 202-219-2374, by e-mail at osfoia@nbc.gov, or by mail at
U. S. Department of the Interior, MS 1413 MIB, Washington, D.C.
20240. Alternatively, you can provide us with a phone number at
which you can be reached, along with the time of day that you
prefer to be contacted, and we can attempt to contact you, at
our expense, to answer any questions that you might have,
regarding your request. Within the Office of the Secretary, we
are committed to providing you, our customer, with the highest
quality of service possible.

[LWB Note: Not that, from here deep within the FOIA briar patch,
I absolutely need the help of individual readers to persuade the
DOI folks to retract their red flag and to exercise some
rationality and justice -- but you might wish to help speed up
matters by expressing your views direct to them as to the value
of my past/current/future UFO-research-related writings and my
continued status as a member of the UFO-awareness press. Try
this e-address: osfoia@nbc.gov ; and direct your concerns to Mr.
William W. Wolf, DOI FOIA Appeals Officer. Please feel free,
ofCAUS, to "CC" your message far and wide. Meantime, my own
appeal letter to Wolf is being prepared even as this update hits
the cyberfan.]






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   Apr > Apr 20

                 Re: Iraq and Cydonia: Two New Posts - Owens

From: Steve Owens <sdo1@mynra.com>
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 02:26:48 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 19:17:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Iraq and Cydonia: Two New Posts - Owens


 >From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 22:50:35 -0700 (PDT)
 >Subject: CI: Iraq and Cydonia: Two New Posts

 >Cydonian Imperative 4-18-03

 >A Brief Note Regarding "Iraq Body Count"... by Mac
 >Tonnies

 >See: http://www.mactonnies.com/cydonia.html (page 37)

 >There has been some minor objection to the inclusion of
 >the "Iraq Body Count" banner that appears on this site.
 >Specifically, it has been interpreted as a political
 >gesture. It is not. The Cydonian Imperative is
 >nonpartisan and I've avoided any mention of the Iraq
 >conflict in its pages. I have included the Iraq Body
 >Count simply because it is an accurate asessment of real
 >events. For those interested in the methodology used to
 >arrive at the "mininum" and "maximum" civilian
 >casualties, a careful look at the site should suffice.

To be truly non-political, the "body count" should include not
only a disclaimer regarding the methodology utilized to arrive
at the claimed figures, but also figures from "the other side."
  There should also be a "body count" of the number slain by the
former regime in Iraq, in the Iranian war, and in the Kuwait
conflict, and an estimate of future expected casualties had the
regime been left in place based on past numbers.

This is another example of the serious reasons why Ufologists
should separate their political views from their science.
  Political views and the over riding desire to be correct are
what lead Richard Hoagland so far from reality.

If we could set aside our politics, perhaps we could inspire our
current leadership to proclaim Mars as a target in much the same
way that President Kennedy directed us to the Moon.  I doubt
spurious claims about the Operation in Iraq will prompt any
desirable action regarding Mars.  The adage about honey and
flies comes to mind.
--
"They dug them up with their hands, and raced the sun."
http://www.defendamerica.mil/nmam.html
-    Steve Owens, Constable  -=-  Mobile, Alabama    -







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   Apr > Apr 20

                   Re: Filer's Files #15 - 2003 - Aldrich

From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 10:17:9 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 19:19:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #15 - 2003 - Aldrich


 >From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 11:44:33 -0300
 >Subject: Re: Filer's Files #15 - 2003

 >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 09:29:41 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: Filer's Files #15 - 2003

<snip>

 >>(From an FBI document dated July 29, 1952.)
 >>See also page 232 of 'The UFO-FBI Connection'.

 >I suspect the 2% figure was used to support the oft toted idea
 >that the unidentifieds or true unknowns just needed real
 >investigation to prove that they too were misinterpretation of
 >known phenomena. It's a nonesense figure as many of us have
 >discovered. To me it appears to be closer to 25 % where some
 >such as Brad Sparks have placed it higher at 30% or over-at
 >least in the Blue Book cases. In this case then it's easier to
 >say that the "2%" were probably identifiable but there just
 >wasn't enough data or resources to prove that. It's a crap
 >figure, and really unsupportable.


Statistics! Statistics! They are wonderful.

I have written on this to almost no effect a number of times.

First what is a UFO case? If someone can point to a consistent
criteria for this in the AF files, you have more imagination
that any ET believer.

Observer to Filter Center: Can you tell me what time Mars rises?
That is a UFO case according to the Air Force. Mars

Did you have a radar sighting of a UFO? No, but we sometime get
the get reflections from surrounding mountains. Radar case
explanation reflection of radar.

Sometimes a two paragraph news clipping is a UFO case while an
intelligence report with extensive checks of the environment,
conditions and possible explanations witnesses were trained
intelligence personnel correctly and properly filled
intelligence forms out forms, submitted to the proper channels
are not a case "information only."

Bull butter!

Second, Fudge Factor: Insufficient information (II). What is an
II case? Why the definition is so flexible and changes due to
circumstances. It is like the Mad Hatter. II means anything we
say it means. One witness case, II, didn't get within five,
seven, whenever days, II. That would be fine if this was applied
with any consistence. This category seems to inflate or deflate
as necessary to get the percentage of unknown down to zero. The
application of this category make a Gilbert and Sullivan
operetta look like a sober scholarly affair.

Possible, Probable, Known. If an aircraft or a balloon is any
where near the sighting area it is a probable explanation. Case
closed. So a weather balloon which was launched an tracked to
bursting is suddenly an explanation for a pilot who dives on a
descending UFO and is out distanced by it. Who cares if the
tracked balloon did not such maneuvers. Possible is in more
offensive. Glib little notes like not inconsistent with a
balloon, aircraft, etc., etc. is considered explained. "Do the
children wear glass?" Explained!

I love this explanation: Conflicting information. Yes, really,
and what is one of the functions of intelligence officers,
resolve conflicting information!

I helped Brad Sparks review a large number of UFO cases in the
Air Forces files. Many of the explanations applied were plucked
from the air. As Hynek put it, II should read Insufficient
Investigations. My evaluation, based on 16 years in field
meteorology, with thousands of balloon trackings is that every
balloon explanation in the Blue Book files should be viewed as
suspect unless it is rechecked. It is not that the majority of
cases are not listed as balloons were not balloons, it is just
that there are a significant number of such cases in which the
balloon explanation would not apply.

Air Force investigation suffered from various defects identified
over and over again by other agencies, the CIA in 1952, critics
like Hynek who criticized it internally and externally and the
Air Force itself. In 1958, ATIC did a self- assessment of the
UFO program. The picture was pretty bleak. Efforts were made to
upgrade the process. Without much success.

As for the application of statistics here any introductory class
student who applied statistics the way the Air Force did to UFO
cases and explanations would get a F-.

The Air Force can give you meaningful important statistics on
just about every aspect of its operations, maintenance failure
rates, how many aircraft will reach the target in an opposed
environment, how much ordnance can expect to hit the target and
with based on numerous factors. But with UFO statistics these
are just not meaningful nor applied with any consistency.

Both the Air Force and the Condon investigative techniques left
much to be desired. See important factors in UFO case
investigations by Brad Sparks at:

http://project1947.com/howto/index.html

The Condon investigative matrix at:

http://project1947.com/howto/levine.html

was a great idea. Too bad it wasn't followed. I have an
interview with Paul Norman in which he tells how he generally
decides which cases to investigate based on the a few questions.
Does that ensure that the cases selected will be significant or
worth investigating. No it is simply the application of a
decision process to find cases which might contain important,
complete, or significant information.

The Air Force statistics uses what I term "the garbage can
approach." While scientists constantly quote AF statistics, most
use similar methods to their own work. Scientists, intelligence
officers, or even police obtain huge amounts of raw data. In
most cases, huge amounts of the data received is discarded in a
winnowing process. So if you read an article on ball lightning
you will know that the cases discussed there are not all the
cases received some of which are hoaxes, religious experiences,
illusions, misidentifications of other phenomena, etc. The
authors of such papers never discuss how many of their cases
went into the garbage can. However, with the Air Force
statistics the garbage can becomes the prime argument that no
scientific, intelligence or law enforcement operation would use.

Finally, the Blue Book unknowns. These are not necessarily the
best cases nor the most interesting cases. Again, the review of
cases made by Sparks and myself reveals a number of well
investigated cases done by intelligence officers and others who
definitely knew how to approach the problem, took the initiate
in checking as many possible avenues of approach as possible and
submitted coherent, well written reports which generally were
ignored at Grudge/Blue Book when they decided what the
explanation was. However, even during the Grudge era small
number of cases were submitted to outside experts for analyses.
Here there also appears another failure. While some cases had
necessary information to determine approximate size, distance,
speed, etc., since these qualities could not be determined with
certainty, the analyses were just discarded. No one has heard of
calculus? There were upper and lower limits which could be
applied, yet the people doing the analysis apparently were so
negative on UFOs that it never occurred to them or unfortunately
the AF intelligence officers to use such analyses.

Ruppelt's sneers and incompetent handling of the General Mills aerographers
situation made sure he got no more data rich material from them. He
left them with the impression that the Air Force investigation was useless.
Much of the public relations battle in the media did the same to highly
qualified observers.


Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
http://www.project1947.com/
P. O. Box 391
Canterbury, CT 06331
(860) 546-9135







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                FOIA Appeal Of DOI-Denied Fee-Waiver Request

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net>
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 17:32:06 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 19:25:22 -0400
Subject: FOIA Appeal Of DOI-Denied Fee-Waiver Request


To: osfoia@nbc.gov, president@whitehouse.gov


TO:   Mr. William W. Wolf
       FOIA Appeals Officer
       Office of the Assistant Secretary for Policy, Management and Budget
       U.S. Department of the Interior
       1849 C Street, N.W.
       Washington, DC 20240

FROM: Larry W. Bryant
       3518 Martha Custis Drive
       Alexandria, VA 22302

DATE: April 20, 2003

Your FOIA officer Sue Ellen Sloca's fee-waiver-denial letter to
me of April 16, 2003, has all the flavor of a Hobson's choice,
and as such not only disserves the good faith and efficiency of
your department but also reinforces my conviction that your
whole system for processing FOIA requests needs the scrutiny and
reform that only an outside authority can undertake (e.g., the
U. S. General Accounting Office). As I work toward that goal, I
now tender this letter as a formal, written appeal of her ill-
advised, erroneous decision.

In the first place, my various free-lance writing's publication
credits (which date back to February 1964 with my (paid) article
for Fate magazine, titled "A Hard Look at UFO News Management")
have paralleled and complemented my full-time career as a
writer-editor, culminating in my civil-service duty as an
associate editor for the Army News Service during the period
January 1981 -- June 1994. The Army News Service functions as
the Department of the Army's equivalent to the Associated Press
-- by electronically dispatching news stories, features, and
commentaries to several hundred post newspapers worldwide.
  Those 13 years as a practitioner of the craft of news-writing
and news-gathering have helped me hone my knowledge and skills
as a UFO researcher/writer, and vice versa.

For about 40 years, then, my free-lance UFO-related publication
credits have included articles in such wide-ranging media as the
Newport News, Va., Daily Press, the Baltimore Sun's Sunday
magazine, the newsstand magazine called FACT, the newsstand
magazine called Flying Saucers, the NYC newspaper called The
News World, the newsstand magazine called The Realist, and
several UFO-related newsletters/journals (including the MUFON
UFO Journal, which used to carry my column "UFO Secrecy
Update"). Back in the late seventies, the newsstand magazine US
solicited (and published) an article from me profiling a then-
famous police chief.

As time passed, and as a number of these periodicals perished,
I've concentrated most of my spare time on the activism for
which I'm most noted: pursuing, at my own expense, greater UFO
freedom of information and accountability from officialdom.
  This continuing role as a researcher-activist-writer has
included my pursuit of several First Amendment and FOIA lawsuits
against certain agencies knowledgeable of and/or complicit in
the so-called official coverup of the UFO-E.T. experience. One
of the results of this pursuit is my book "UFO Politics at the
White House: Citizens Rally 'round Jimmy Carter's Promise"
(February 2002; published by http://www.invispress.com ).
  Because of my sustained activism, I've been the guest of
numerous radio/TV talk shows (including, several years ago, a
live appearance on a program called "Politics Today," broadcast
by Canadian Television during their coverage of the U. S. Air
Force's "final solution" report about the Roswell Incident). An
excerpt from one of my lawsuits (Petition for a Writ of
Mandamus) appeared in the "Readings" section of Harper's
magazine for October 2000.

With the advent of the speedy, wide dissemination of
news/information afforded by the Internet, my contemporary
writings have reached a growing international audience via all
the hundreds of UFO-related websites sharing links with such
sites as CAUS.org and UFOcity.com . Whoever Ms. Sloca tasked to
review the CAUS site has failed the task: with just a few button
clicks on his computer, any visitor to the site can view at
least the following six essays/reports/articles published there
from me:

* http://www.caus.org/guestcomments/gc081400.shtml -- "Showdown
at the OK(la.) Corral: UCGJP v. IAPCOD" (re a proposed grand-
jury probe into the Roswell Incident).

* http://www.caus.org/guestcomments/gc032300.shtml -- "The
Love-Hate Relationship between Whistleblower Philip J. Corso and
the Federal Bureau of Investigation."

* http://www.caus.org/commentary/cc081999.shtml -- "Yes,
Virginia, We're Being Invaded."

* http://www.caus.org/guestcomments/gc051800.shtml -- "Petition
for a Writ of Mandamus...."

* http://www.caus.org/guestcomments/gc020701.shtml -- "The UFO
Attack of Oct. 19, 1959: Echoes of the Shot UNheard 'round the
World."

* http://www.caus.org/guestcomments/gc011901.shtml --
  "UFOpolitik at Edwards Air Force Base."

Although the CAUS site functions now as a static
library/information resource, its director, Peter A. Gersten,
publishes an associated online newsletter called "PAG E-News
Service," which routinely receives submissions of update items
from me (as a consultant to that service).

As to the UFOcity.com site, which now has resumed operation
after the massive computer crash of several days ago, I remain a
columnist there (via "LWB Chronicles"). To view some of my
material published on that site in recent months, simply visit
the site called VirtuallyStrange.net, whose "UFO Updates"
section catalogues and archives my latest contributions to both
sites, at the following URL:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/cgi-bin/search-email.cgi?index=/ufo/updates/&key
=overtci


If and when this fee-waiver dispute ends up in federal court, I
expect to solicit from both Peter Gersten and Peter Robbins a
written declaration as to my role as a periodic "content
provider" for their respective websites/news services. I also
expect to provide the court with ample hard evidence (e.g.,
photocopies/printouts) of my publication credits cited above.
  To even the most casual observer, this evidence should be
overwhelming in its confirmation of my status as a
past/current/future "journalist" (i.e., in dictionary parlance:
  a person who writes for publication in newspapers and
periodicals). How many proofs-of-publication will satisfy the
court's determination that I finally have justified my
existence? That's analogous to asking, "How many roses/rose
buds must a gardener observe (and for how long?) amidst the
branches of a given bush before she concludes she's obviously
dealing with a bonafide rose bush?"

Accordingly, why must your agency continue to spend taxpayer
money in stonewalling my request at an expenditure level that
quite likely will exceed the records-search/review fees incurred
in the processing of my request? Perhaps the answer lies in
your agency's (correct) assumption that several other FOIA
requests will ensue from me as the BLM-UNM Roswell-excavation
project progresses to a conclusion, thus causing your agency to
have to account for what it knows, and when it knew it, about
the origin, purpose, and technological exploitation of certain
Roswellian artifacts. That assumption alone counters Ms.
Sloca's contention that my FOIA quest for full, swift, accurate
accountability from DOI/BLM officials can't (or won't)
contribute significantly to public understanding/oversight of
government operations or activities. Were my FOIA request to
pertain to the price of tea in China, I could understand her
decision to label my request as trivial. But I can think of no
federal judge who would consider insignificant the ramifications
of the Roswell UFO coverup once enough coverup whistleblowers
come forward with additional confirmatory evidence.

What's more, your agency's unconscionable, unjustifiable, and
unacceptable stonewalling of my request merely serves to fuel
the public perception that your agency considers itself beyond
reproach despite its having been caught red-handed with failure
(in my case) to follow its own FOIA-processing
regulations/procedures. That official attitude deserves the
spotlight of full public inquiry, discussion, and reform; and
Ms. Sloca as a public servant must cease standing in the way of
that accountability.

Because of the inherent public-interest nature of this appeal,
of the maltreatment of my original FOIA request (Nov. 7, 2002),
and of the prospect of additional related FOIA requests from me,
I ask that you expedite the processing and granting of this
appeal.

Please note that, by snail-mail, I'm sending to you a signed
printout of this e-formatted letter.


LARRY W. BRYANT
Director, Washington, D.C., Office of
Citizens Against UFO Secrecy


Copies furnished to:

Mark S. Zaid, Esq. (Washington, D.C.)

Peter Robbins, Editor-in-Chief, UFOcity.com

Peter A. Gersten, Director, CAUS (Arizona)

Chairman, Subcommittee on Government Information, Management, and
Technology -- U. S. House of Representatives

Chairman, U. S. Senate Committee on the Judiciary

Chairman, U. S. Senate Committee on Government Affairs

Director, The Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press

Director, Public Citizen









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   Apr > Apr 21

                      Cattle Mutilation - Electrocution

From: Chaz Stuart <Daydisk2@webtv.net>
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 23:26:39 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 19:34:11 -0400
Subject: Cattle Mutilation - Electrocution


Last week, there was an article posted on UpDates about the
mutilation of three cows and a young, bull calf in Nebraska.
Linda Howe, despite what has been said about her investigative
techniques and motives, still manages to get the interviews with
the first hand witnesses in many current cases and issues in the
UFO/paranormal/ health and science departments. I'll give her
credit for that.

Here:

Earthfiles.com

http://earthfiles.com/news/news.cfm?ID=512&category=Environment

she interviews the veterinarian who examined the dead animals
who were apparently electrocuted.

My main reason for posting this concerns the methods of
electrocuting 1200 lb. animals in the field. I'm not even going
to speculate as to why someone would want to do this, but wonder
just how difficult this would be.

Certainly, a car battery would be insufficient, but would a home
sized, portable generator do the trick, and even so, how would
you get the animals in position for "old sparky?"

Just wondering...

Note: In the Omaha Herald article, the examiner states that the
animals died of electrocution. In LMH's interview, he states
that there were burn marks on the roofs of their mouths which
could have been caused by electricity or "microwaves."


Regards,

Chaz





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   Apr > Apr 21

                      Re: UFOs & Wars? - Garcia Blanco

From: Javier Garcia <javier.garcia@eai.es>
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 10:13:53 +0200
Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 19:38:15 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs & Wars? - Garcia Blanco


 >From: Thiago Luiz Ticchetti <<thiagolt@opengate.com.br>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 11:03:54 -0300
 >Subject: UFOs & Wars?

 >Hello List,

 >I am writing article about the UFO sightings during wars -
 >Vietnam, Korea war, World Wars I and II, The Gulf War and even
 >previous wars - and would like to know if you can help by sending
 >informations, links or articles.


Hi Thiago,

I wrote an article about UFO sightings during Spanish Civil War
(1936-1939). You can read it (in Spanish) at:

http://www.mundomisterioso.com/article.php?sid=411


Regards,

Javier Garcia Blanco
javier.garcia@eai.es












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                      Russian UFO Films And Photographs

From: Philip Mantle <philip.mantle@eidosnet.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 09:54:52 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 20:19:21 -0400
Subject: Russian UFO Films And Photographs


Dear Colleagues,

A documentary producer in the USA has recently been in contact
with me to see if I know of anyone that can supply either UFO
film/video clips or still photographs from within the former
USSR. The producer in question is interested in making a
documentary on UFOs in the former USSR  but cannot put this
proposal to the various networks until he has a few samples of
UFO videos/photographs.

I'd therefore like to ask that if you have access to any such
material to please let me know and I will gladly forward it on
to the producer in due course. Alternatively, if you know of
anyone who might have such material, please feel free to forward
this message on to them.

Thank you very much for your cooperation with this request.


Regards,

Philip Mantle.
philip.mantle@eidosnet.co.uk
www.beyondroswell.com






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   Apr > Apr 21

                       Strange Animal Caught In Chile

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 10:05:38 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 20:47:49 -0400
Subject: Strange Animal Caught In Chile

SOURCE: La Nueva Provincia.com
DATE: Sunday, April 20, 2003


STRANGE ANIMAL CAUGHT: THE "CHUPACABRAS"?

SANTIAGO DE CHILE (EFE) -- A bizarre animal caught in a small
community of southern Chile was immediately associated by local
residents with the enigmatic "Chupacabras", since dozens of
birds who died by exsanguination were found in that area some
time ago.

According to police reports, the black, catlike animal -
showing considerable differences in its ears and hind legs -
was captured by residents of the Pinchulao settlement in the
commune of Lautaro, 690 km. south of Santiago.

The "Prensa Austral" newspaper from Temuco, a town adjacent to
Lautaro, specified that the strange beast was caught in the
process of exsanguinating a hen.

The animal will be examined by local veterinarians and analyzed
to determine the species it belongs to.

Every so often, the legendary "Chupacabras" becomes a news item
in Chile. It is accused of slaying and sucking dry goats, pigs,
rabbits, chickens and other animals, although its existence has
never been verified.

In late May 2000, residents of the northern city of Calama and
nearby communities blamed the U.S. space agency, NASA, for the
Chupacabras's manifestations and attacks. In that year, the
predator's inroads caused havoc among the area's farm animals as
well as in other parts of Chile. At the time, residents of
[Calama], located 1584 km north of Santiago, claimed that U.S.
scientists were in the area and "lost control of at least three
genetic experiments", only managing to recover two of them.

==================================
Translation (C) 2003. Scott Corrales, Institute of Hispanic
Ufology (IHU). Special thanks to Christian Quintero, PlanetaUFO.








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                 Reactions To Chilean Strange Animal Mystery

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 10:18:40 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 20:53:02 -0400
Subject: Reactions To Chilean Strange Animal Mystery


SOURCE: Diario Austral de Araucania
DATE: April 21, 2003

STRANGE ANIMAL MYSTERY CONTINUES

The article published yesterday by this news organ elicited a
variety of responses in regard to the capture of a strange
animal in a rural sector of the Lautaro commune. The animal -
found by a local resident - was caught in the act of sucking
blood from a chicken's neck. The specimen is in the possession
of Ricardo Candia, officer in charge of the local TV station
(USTV) in the city of Toqu=ED, who had the creature embalmed in
order to preserve it.

The mystery still continues for this professor and self-taught
researcher. "No one has been able to tell me what it is. I'm
hoping that some specialist may clarify the mystery surrounding
its capture."

It is worth noting that the animal - measuring some 30 cm long -
was captured by residents of the Pinchulao settlement, property
of Prof. Luis M=E9ndez, in the Rinconada sector, some 19 km from
Lautaro.

Around 20:00 hrs last Wednesday, Samuel Cayuman was inside his
dwelling in the company of his wife when both heard a strange
sound coming from the henhouse, located only a few meters from
their home. Concerned for his poultry, the worker went outside
and headed toward the structure to take a look. He removed his
keys and unlocked the door to enter a space fenced by barbed
wire, but the darkness kept him from seeing anything strange
going on within.

He suddenly seized one of the hens. Upon taking it outside for a
better look, he noticed that a dark and hairy animal was
dangling from its neck. He immediately let go of the bird and
gripped the strange being that had already drained all of the
hen's blood. Cayum=E1n separated it and killed it.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D
Translation (C) 2003. Scott Corrales, Institute of Hispanic
Ufology (IHU). Special thanks to Guillermo Gim=E9nez, PlanetaUFO.






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   Apr > Apr 21

                         Another Abduction Question

From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm@arrakis.es>
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 16:41:08 +0200
Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 20:53:57 -0400
Subject: Another Abduction Question


According to a short note in the MUFON UFO Journal # 127 (August
1978) by Dave Kissinger, the VISIT group (Vehicle Internal
Systems Investigative Team) had designed a questionnaire dealing
with the space vehicle engineering systems, medical examination
and instruments used, physiology of the beigns, and the
physiological aftereffects of the abductees.

I am very interesting in getting a copy of such a questionnaire
and/or contact with any member of this old Texan UFO group

Can anybody help?


Luis R. Gonz=E1lez Manso






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   Apr > Apr 21

                        Italian UFO Newsflash No. 389

From: Edoardo Russo <e.russo@cisu.org>
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 15:07:21 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 20:55:30 -0400
Subject: Italian UFO Newsflash No. 389


ITALIAN UFO NEWSFLASH

ISSUE NO. 389 -  3 APRIL 2003

by the Italian Center for UFO Studies
(Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici, CISU)

Contents:

- UFO Reports In The Newspapers
- Can We Believe a Witness?
- UFOs & Human Sciences


UFO REPORTS IN THE NEWSPAPERS

The amount of spaced devoted to UFOs in the Italian newspapers
has returned to normal in March, following the uproar provoked
by the shocking announcements made by the Raelians regarding
their assertion that they had cloned human beings.

In fact, levels have returned to normal levels during this
period (a total of forty or so clippings per month) for data
relative to UFO stories reported in dailies and other
periodicals in our country  levels which, in January, reached
instead a peak typical of the summer months, doubling in number
as compared with previous years.

Such are the revelations from the data published, as in every
month, by the Italian Center for UFO Studies on its Website
(www.arpnet.it/ufo/ecotot.htm), based on clippings gathered for
the CISU by the specialized newsclipping agency "L'Eco della
Stampa" (Press Echo).

[Communication by Gian Paolo Grassino]


CAN WE BELIEVE A WITNESS?

"Can We Believe a Witness?": This is the question posed on the
cover of a book just published by Mulino Publ. in Bologna,
beside the "unmistakable" profile of a "grey" alien and the
subtitle: "Testimony and the Traps of Memory".

It's not a UFO book, but a volume that is indispensable
nonetheless for those who wish to research UFOs in a serious
manner. In fact, the publication refers to memory, recollections
and testimony, i.e., the raw material the UFO investigator
performs his work with.

Indeed, one chapter is dedicated to alien abductions (as well as
to satanic rituals and child abuse, some features of which might
be correlated with these).

The author of the volume (221 pages, 12.80 Euro) is Giuliana
Mazzoni, professor of psychology at Seton Hall University (New
Jersey) and an author of various other articles and books on the
subject, as well as a consultant on matters of forensic
psychology.

[Report by Paolo Toselli]


UFOS & HUMAN SCIENCES

Just as with psychology, sociology and anthropology, the human
sciences in more general terms represent an area of studies that
has been increasingly examining the UFO subject, over the last
twenty-five years.

A little more than twenty years after the 1982 international
seminar that the journal UPIAR organized in Austria on "Human
Sciences and UFO Phenomena", a Spanish ufologist is now making
reference to what scientific literature, from a humanistic
standpoint, has been produced about the theme. Ignacio Cabria
has penned a book just published by Fundacion Anomal=EDa
(www.anomalia.org) and entitled "OVNIS y ciencias humanas  Un
estudio tem=E1tico de 50 a=F1os de bibliograf=EDa ("UFOs and the Human
Sciences  - A Thematic Study of a Bibliography Spanning Fifty
Years").

The volume is being distributed in Italy by UPIAR book service,
with the usual discounts for members of the Italian Center for
UFO Studies.


Collaborators on this edition were:
Gian Paolo Grassino and Paolo Toselli.


- - -

This is the English translation of UFOTEL, a free phone/Internet
information service on UFOs edited weekly by  Edoardo Russo for
the Italian Center for UFO Studies (Centro Italiano Studi
Ufologici), available in Italian by calling +39-011-545294, or
by e-mail subscription, or on CISU website at:

http://www.arpnet.it/ufo/ultime.htm

UFOTEL is a supplement to "UFO - Rivista di
informazione ufologica", published by the Italian
Center for UFO Studies, registered at Tribunale
di Torino,  No. 3670, on 19 June 1986.
Director: Giovanni Settimo.
Publisher: Cooperativa UPIAR, Corso Vittorio
Emanuele 108, 10121 Turin, Italy

Translated from Italian to English by:
Gary J. Presto,
Freelance Italian>English Translator & Proofreader
44 Bickford Ave., Apt. 2
Revere, MA 02151
USA

Tel.: ++1.781.485.1683
FAX: ++1.781.485.1684
E-mail: gpresto@attbi.com
Webpage: http://www.proz.com/translator/723



- - -

(c) 2003 by: CISU,
Corso Vittorio Emanuele 108,  10121 Torino, Italia

This newsletter (as a whole or in part) may be freely copied,
photocopied, reproduced, stored, distributed and retrieved, at
the only condition that Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici is
reported as the source.

You may get it directly via e-mail by subscribing - just send a
blank message to:

cisuflash-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

The CISU is a no-profit association whose aims are:
- to promote the scientific study of UFO phenomena in Italy;
- to help circulate information about UFO phenomena and studies;
- to coordinate national activities of data collecting and studying.

You may reach Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici:
- by mail: CISU, Corso Vittorio Emanuele 108, 10121 Torino, Italia
- by phone: +39 (011) 30.78.63 (24 hours UFO Hotline)
- by fax: +39 (011) 54.50.33
- by Internet e-mail: cisu@ufo.it
- at the World Wide Web URL: http://www.cisu.org






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                             Russian UFO Crash?

From: Royce J. Myers III - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 09:28:32 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 20:59:04 -0400
Subject: Russian UFO Crash?



Hi Listers,

One more for the KGB UFO Files... someone sent it to me and I
thought I'd pass it along.  Sounds more like a military craft
than a UFO...


UFO CRASHES IN RUSSIAN HARBOR IN SIGHT OF BALTIC FLEET, ENTIRE
CITY WATCHES

by
James L. Choron
www.wintersteel.com

KLININGRAD, RUSSIA (Friday, April 18, 2003) -- The entire
Russian Baltic Fleet and a large number or residents of
Kaliningrad (formerly Koenigsburg), a city of over 3 million
inhabitants, in the Russian Baltic enclave on the Baltic Sea,
watched in awe as a "flying wing" shaped Unidentified Flying
Object winged over rapidly and plunged into Kaliningrad Harbour
at approximately 6:17 pm. Local Time.

The event was caught on videotape by a local RTR Russian State
Television news crew, which was present on the massive naval
base, filming a documentary segment on the fleet for airing on
Russian television. The Unidentified Flying Object, described as
a "Flying Wing", with two enlongated, dome like protrusions on
top, and three similar structures, underneath, was overflying
the Baltic Fleet, which lay at anchor in Kaliningrad Harbour.
According to a Russian Naval Commander, who wishes to remain
annomyous, the craft was apparently caught, accidently, withing
the sweep patterns of ship mounted search radars, which came on
to track it's progress, causing some sort of malfunction which
resulted in the crash.

"It was traveling at a tremendous rate of speed" he said to RTR
reporters, on the scene. "It was very low, not more than 1,500
meters (approximately 5,000 feet) above the surface of the
water. When our radars came on, it simply winged over, and dove
into the water, as if it has lost either power, or control". The
light gray colord craft, with no apparent "seams" or rivet
patterns visible, was estimated by onlookers to be approximately
the size of a small airliner, or light transport aircraft, and
traveling at speeds in excess of Mach 2 (twice the speed of
sound), was absoltely quiet as it passed, but made a "trememdous
noise" as it plunged into the water, causing a geyser of steam
and water, mixed with small debris, which shot an extimated 500
meters (1500 feet) into the air.

"It appeared" one witness, a civilian onlooker, said, "that
whoever, or whatever was in control of the craft made a
deliberate effort to take it away from the naval ships and the
shoreline before it went into the harbor". One Sovremini Class
Destroyer was lightly damaged by flying debris, but, so far, no
casualties have been reported. Radiation levels at the site, are
high, but the source of the radiation, as well as it's nature,
have yet to be determined. Russian authorities, from the
Ministry of Health, are qick to point out that the radiation
levels are not dangerous, simply "higher than normal". So far,
debris recovered have been small, averaging less than a meter
(just over three feet) in diameter, at the largest. Most debris
recovered, to date, have been what appear to be "skin material"
of an unknown alloy, and interior bracing and piping, composed
of a very high grade and extremely pure aluminum. All metal
debris have been dispatched to various institutes and
universities for analysis, including the prestiegous Bauman
Institute of Engineering, in Moscow, and the Moscow State
University School of Metalurgy.

Owing to the speed at which the object was traveling, it is
considered highly doubtful that any significant remains of crew,
if, in fact, the vehicle was piloted, will be recovered. "This
looks like your basic 'hair, teeth and eyeballs' situation, one
Russian Navy diver said, somewhat grimly. It is interesting to
note that, in spite of the high spped at which the craft was
traveling, and it's extremely low altitude, there was no
characteristic "sonic boom" associated with it's approach, and
no noticable vibration on the ground. This has led many
observers, especially those associated with the Russian military
establishment to speculate that the propulsion system of the
craft was based on some sort of "anti-gravity" device.

"Whatever it was", said one Russian Naval Captain, "it was
certainly not one of our craft, and I am also not aware of
anything of this sort being present in the West". The immediate
area of the crash will be dredged, as soon as a Naval dredge,
also attached to the Baltic Fleet, but currently on assignment
several hours away, can be brought into position. Dredging
operations are expected to becin within the next two to three
days, at the latest. The entire episode is noteworthy in that it
was not only captured on videotape by an RTR newscrew, but was
instantly aired, not only on RTR, but on all major Russian
Network television, via a live feed from the RTR crew, in
Kaliningrad.

Updates have followed on each regular news broadcast, since the
initial downing. Russian Government officials are quick to point
out that the downing was, in fact, accidental, and not a "shoot
down". Kaliningrad police have cordoned off a two block section
of waterfront, near the crash site in order to facilitate the
arival and departure of heavy transport and emergency vehicles
and the support facilities necessary for divers who are working
in the area. Water temperatures are still extremely low, in the
baltic, and special equipment has been brought in. Divers,
however, report that the water in the vacinity of the crash is,
in fact, noticably, several degrees warmer than normal. The
water surrounding the crash site is, understandably, reported to
be "murky" with extremely poor visibillity. This leads many of
the divers and supervisory personnel to speculate that at least
one relatively large fragment might exist.

Wintersteel enjoys a very good relationship with the Russian
Navy, as well as with the mainstream Russian media, and will be
posting photographs of the site, and debris recovered, as soon
as they become available. We will also be following updates on
the situation, and will post such as become available to our
site, at www.wintersteel.com, as well as including them in our
newsletter, and in any suplamentary material that may become
necessary to distribute.

*Due to the sensitive nature of the ongoing investigation, names
of all quoted witnesses are being omitted, at the request of the
interviewed parties, and, in the case of serving military
personnel, at the request of the Armed Forces of the Russian
Federation. The Russian Ministry of Defense assures WinterSteel,
and all other media outlets, that a full disclosure of the names
of witnesses, examining experts and vessels involved, will be
made as soon as recovery operations are complete. *Ongoing
television and radio coverage of this incident is continuing, as
of this writing (5:20 pm Moscow Standard Time, 19 April, 2003.







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   Apr > Apr 21

                 Could Chilean Chupacabras be a Yaguarundi?

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 13:01:59 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 21:00:55 -0400
Subject: Could Chilean Chupacabras be a Yaguarundi?


SOURCE: El Tribuno Digital
DATE: April 21, 2003 11:43 AM

IS CHILEAN CHUPACBRAS A YAGUARUNDI?

** Animal similar to the Yaguarundi was caught in an area in
which dozens of birds lost lives**

The strange legend of the "Chupacabras" is not discarded: the
animal found yesterday is quite similar to a cat, or more
precisely, the Yaguarundi of the Chaco region. It was
immediately associated with the "Chupacabras" by the locals,
since some time ago dozens of birds died from exsanguination in
that region.

According to the police report, the black-furred animal
resembling a cat, but with notable differences in its ears and
hind legs, was captured by leaseholders of the Pinchulao
settlement in the commune of Lautaro, 690 km south of Santiago.

[...]

The creature appears to be a wild cat. However, it continues to
inspire songs and magazine features. Throughout its existence it
has fed the fires of popular culture and speculation. Like the
Loch ness monster, it has been named in the tales of various
countries and cultures.

Other  creatures are described as half-man/half-animal, while
others seemed to be predecessors of the Chupacabras, the Yeti's
tropical kinsman (sic). These beings were never given a name,
although the propular press dubbed them "Cangodrilos".



================================================
Translation (C) 2003. Scott Corrales, IHU.
Special thanks to Christian Quintero.









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   Apr > Apr 21

                  Court Ruling Keeps Documents Confidential

From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 16:11:09 -0300
Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 21:02:59 -0400
Subject: Court Ruling Keeps Documents Confidential


Source: The Washington Times

http://washingtontimes.com/national/20030417-69509372.htm

NEVADA-CARSON CITY - April 17, 2003 - A federal appeals court
has refused to open confidential documents that might reveal if
substances handled at the secret Air Force Base at Area 51 were
hazardous.

The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals this week upheld the
decision of U.S. District Judge Philip Pro, who released
transcripts of hearings but with classified information blacked
out.

Five workers and the widows of two former employees filed suit
saying they were exposed to toxic fumes at the base.











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   Apr > Apr 21

                  Anomaly Sighting, Scots Bay, Nova Scotia

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 16:36:54 -0300
Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 21:06:07 -0400
Subject: Anomaly Sighting, Scots Bay, Nova Scotia


Errol took me to task for not following up on this report to
CANUFO Saturday night on SDI. It follows on a similar report
several weeks ago by a pilot, his wife and perhaps two other
witnesses in New Brunswick as reported in the same time period
to Stan Friedman.

Here it is.

Don Ledger

-----

Date:  April 11, 2003
Time: 9:05 PM ADT
Location: Scots Bay, Nova Scotia
45:17:00 North
064:23:00 West
Witnesses: 1
Conditions: Clear skies


The witness [an adult male] lives in Scots Bay on the Bay of
Fundy between Fundy and Minas Basin a hook of land curling
westward ending at Cape Split and west of Cape Blomidon in Nova
Scotia.

At about 2105 hrs on the evening of April 11th of 2003 he
observed something quite odd, a very bright object [as bright or
brighter than Jupiter] traveling at great speed from west to
east across the horizon.  At first he thought it may be the ISS,
although  wasn't sure it would be visible that night.

"Then, to my amazement, it seemed to slow down and then STOP
near the constellation Corvi. I watched for 30 seconds as it
stayed motionless in relation to the brightest/"top" star in
that constellation. I ran inside and grabbed my binos [right by
the door...about 10 secs] and re-aquired the object with the
naked eye. It seemed to dim and when I looked at it again with
the binos it continued dimming and then started heading NORTH.
It continued North until I finally lost sight of it as it neared
my horizon of view."

The witness stated:

"Now...it could be that it was the Space Station and then I
mistakenly confused it with another satellite that happend to be
passing through Corvi heading North when I looked again. But,
the first light slowed and then stopped... .and I am certain I
was looking in the same spot as the bright star in Corvi was a
great benchmark." But: A later check with the offical NASA site
on the ISS's location at:

http://liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov/temp/StationLoc.html

indicated that the Space Station was near Antarctica at the time
of the witness's sighting.

I asked:

1] How long did the light take to cross from east to west?

A] I watched it moving from West to East for about 20 secs. When
I first observed it it was an arm length "West:" -and lower in
the sky by about the elevation of Jupiter.  Its path was almost
directly West to East, and its elevation about halfway from my
observed line of Horizon to the Ecliptic [Jupiter and the Moon].
It stopped, as I mentioned, just about the top star in Corvi.

I have watched satellites in the sky before [mostly north/south
orbits] and this moved about 2-3 times faster. It was also
faster than the planes which travese the sky along that flight
path.

   It is harder for me to gauge speed as it moved North. I was
looking through binoculars as it started to dim and my
perspective was skewed because of this. I would estimate that it
took about 30 secs to disappear from view.

It stayed relatively motionless near Corvi for about 15 secs
before it started moving North.


2] Were there clouds present. If so did the object cross in
front of any of them?

A] Clear night. No clouds at all.


3] Did the object [light] twinkle or was its a well defined orb?

A] Looked quite round and steady. Larger than Jupiter. Some
twinkling. Perhaps more so than Jupiter

4] What would you describe the color of the light as?

A] White with a bluish tint.


5] It's elevation above the horizon? [In Moon diameters]

A] Its trajectory was flat as far as I could see. If you have a
"star chart" program you could check the elevation of the top
star in Corvi for a more accurate reading than my "halfway from
the horizon to the ecliptic"  It was just slightly above the top
star in Corvi. About two and one half to three Moon diameters
above the horizon.

6] Are you an amateur astronomer, pilot or sailor? You seem to
have good knowledge of the sky.

A] I am a very amateur astronomer and was an officer in the
military 10 years back. Army though...not a pilot.

A check with the usual radar resources and towers turned up
nothing that could account for this object/light. Nor did they
have evidence on radar of this anomaly.

I sent an email to Stan Friedman to see if he had any reports
that evening [the object would have been going toward Moncton
when it left in a northerly direction from the witness in Scots
Bay]  but Stan must be away as he did not reply.

Submitted by Don Ledger






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   Apr > Apr 21

             Cattle Mutes Spur Memories Of '70S, '80S Outbreaks

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 21:13:57 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 21:13:57 -0400
Subject: Cattle Mutes Spur Memories Of '70S, '80S Outbreaks



Source: Lincoln Journal Star - Nebraska

http://www.journalstar.com/local.php?story_id=40782


Cattle mutilations spur memories from '70s, '80s outbreaks
By Margaret Reist
Lincoln Journal Star

Mike Benes has been in the cattle business all his life, lives
on a farm just a pasture away from his dad's place.

And he's never seen anything like what happened two weeks ago,
no more than 100 yards from his house near Valparaiso.

He's heard about such things over the years -- cattle lying dead
in a field, organs removed with surgical precision.

In fact, in the late 1970s and '80s cattle mutilations became a
social phenomenon of sorts. Law enforcement agencies in dozens
of states, including Nebraska, were inundated with such reports.

There were federally funded investigations and theories varying
from satanic cults to animal predators to aliens.

But Benes had never seen it. Certainly not in the rolling green
hills where he raises a small but quality breeding stock.

"We've lived here 17 years on this place,'' he said. "This is
the first time we've had any problems or anything with our
livestock.''

But what Benes found on a Saturday morning on his way to do
chores -- and then again the next day despite a spring snowstorm
that blanketed the farmland -- is a problem. A very strange one.

On April 5, Benes walked out of his house and saw one of his 50
Simmental cows dead in the pasture. There was another about 100
yards away, and about 300 yards from the house, a dead calf.

"I saw the calf right away because the other cows were all
around it,'' he said.

The calf's testicles and scrotum had been removed. Benes said
meat from its hindquarters was gone as well.

"There was no blood in the pasture,'' Benes said.

A teat on one of the 1,200-pound cows had been cut off. But it
appears the culprits couldn't get to the teat of the other cow
because of the way the animal fell, Benes said.

Initially, Benes thought the animals had probably been poisoned.
But his veterinarian showed him the injuries and did an autopsy
that showed something even more odd. It appears the cows had
been electrocuted.

To make matters worse, Benes found another dead cow on April 7.
This one also had been electrocuted, one teat left hanging, not
completely cut off. Somebody had come back, Benes said, in the
middle of a spring snowstorm to kill the third cow.

This time, the culprits left footprints but little other
evidence, said Saunders County Sheriff Chuck Lacey Sr. and
Nebraska State Patrol Investigator Jay Petersen.

"It's kind of mind-boggling,'' said Benes. "It's not the
monetary value of the cows. Of course it's a concern but it's
nothing compared to the violation of our property that we felt
when these people came in while we were sleeping and stalked our
cows around a 10-acre pasture."

Nobody in the family has gotten a full night's sleep since, he
said.

Benes estimated the loss at about $6,000, but said that's
conservative. The cows were going to replace older breeding
cows, he said. And the calf was genetically bred to be a good
seed stock bull.

"It was sad they had to take him,'' Benes said. "He was real
tame, he was one that would come up to you.''

The calf, Petersen said, was knocked out rather than
electrocuted, but the insides of the cows' mouths appeared to be
burnt, as did their meat and muscle. He sent tissue samples to a
veterinarian with the animal sciences diagnostic lab at the
University of Nebraska-Lincoln.

Among the puzzling questions is how were the animals
electrocuted. Benes is confident investigators will find out,
and he's put up an undisclosed amount of reward money to help in
the process.

The reward, which the Saunders County Crime Stoppers and local
cattle associations have also contributed to, is one of the
larger rewards. Lacey declined to name the amount but said it
was large "and growing.''

Petersen said he's tracking down similar incidents, such as one
that occurred in 1994 within five miles of the Benes place. In
that case, news reports said, the cow may have been
electrocuted. Its lips, teats and anus had been removed.

Lacey said his father was the Johnson County Sheriff in the
1970s and remembers deputies getting similar reports.

"They were talking aliens back then,'' he said.

Back then, reports of such mutilations kept law enforcement
officers busy.

Steve Stanec, executive director of the Nebraska Brand
Committee, found a 3-inch stack of files in storage on the
subject. The brand committee is in charge of brand inspections
in the western two-thirds of Nebraska and investigates livestock
crimes.

"In the last 20 years it's been very infrequent,'' he said of
such reports. "In the late '70s, early '80s, it was a hot
issue.''

In 1975, the governor of Colorado called the killings "one of
the great outrages in the history of Western cattle industry''
and ordered a statewide investigation.

But Stanec said reports eventually determined that most of the
mutilations could be attributed to predators that could make
precision-like cuts and would be drawn to the soft tissue often
found missing. An ex-FBIagent issued a 297-page report in 1980
saying that, with a few exceptions, the deaths and wounds were
of natural origins.

But there are those who find mutilations mysterious. Petersen
has gotten calls this month from a Las Vegas pathologist and a
woman who has written books on the subject.

Colm Kelleher, administrator of the National Institute for
Discovery Science in Las Vegas, said the institute has studied
cattle mutilations for seven years, although none from Nebraska.
Scientists there concluded that a sharp instrument, not
predators, was responsible in some cases. Scientists also have
found evidence of a chemical that could be a sedative.

"Our research has kind of convinced us that (some cases) cannot
be explained just by predators. You really have to get to the
stage where coyotes are packing scalpels,'' Kelleher said.

But the scientists haven't drawn any conclusions about who's
committing the crimes. And it appears the rash of mutilations in
the '70s and '80s went unsolved.

"We have absolutely no idea who's doing it,'' Kelleher said.

As for the latest incident, Benes put up money for a reward
because he thinks it is important the culprits be found and
prosecuted.

"This kind of killing and mutilation, ... it's been going on for
years in Nebraska off and on, and it's tragic to any cow-calf
operation,'' he said. "There's just no value to it in my mind.''

Investigators say they don't have suspects yet but they're going
on the assumption the culprit is of the earthly variety.

"I ain't got no answer but I know it's not aliens because aliens
don't leave tracks,'' Lacey said.

Reach Margaret Reist at 473-7226 or mreist@journalstar.com






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   Apr > Apr 22

                       Hastings Making A Case For UFOs

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 06:37:32 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 06:37:32 -0400
Subject: Hastings Making A Case For UFOs



Source: The Brookings Register - South Dakota

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?BRD=1127&dept_id=92759&newsid=7752054&PAG=461
&rfi=9

Making A Case For UFOs
By: John Andrews April 17, 2003

Area UFO buffs and those with just mild curiosity got an
opportunity Tuesday to judge for themselves the legitimacy of
unidentified flying objects.

Robert Hastings, an independent researcher and lecturer,
presented "UFOs: The Hidden History" to a packed Volstorff
Ballroom at South Dakota State University.

"I am not a missionary," Hastings told the audience. "I am not
seeking to convert skeptics into so-called believers.

"What you're about to see and hear may seem like science
fiction, a paranoid delusion, or perhaps an elaborate practical
joke. I assure you, it's none of those things. The only ticket
of admission this evening is an open mind."

He began by showing a 30-minute film, written and produced by
Hastings himself. The film used newspaper accounts and other
declassified government documents outlining a history of UFO
sightings over the past 50 years. Events in the "hidden history
of the UFO phenomenon" included:

* The first massive wave of UFO sightings in April 1947. UFOs
were reported in every state but Georgia and West Virginia. The
government explained them as being solar reflections, meteors,
or flattened hailstones.

* The launch of Project Sign in 1948, a government investigation
into the UFO sightings.

* UFOs that hovered above and in restricted air space over
Washington in 1952. The Pentagon said it was the result of an
atmospheric illusion.

* The establishment of JANAP 146, outlining the procedure pilots
were to follow in reporting UFO sightings.

* The first report of alleged contact with aliens in 1961. A New
Hampshire couple recalled their contact with aliens following a
session of time-regression hypnosis.

* A rash of sightings in 1975 over nuclear weapons sites in the
upper Midwest.

After the film, Hastings showed other declassified government
documents that have been released to researchers through the
Freedom of Information Act.

He shared a memorandum sent in January 1949 to the former
director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, J. Edgar
Hoover. The document discussed secret conferences that had been
held for the purpose of discussing recent UFO sightings above
Los Alamos, N.M., a large nuclear weapons laboratory.

An August 1950 FBI memorandum talked about the alarming increase
in UFO sightings above not only the nations nuclear weapons
facilities, but over other top secret areas as well.

Hastings said it was obvious to him that these flying objects
began to express an increased interest in the nation's nuclear
weapons program. And, justifiably so, he said, the government
became deeply concerned and began debunking the UFO theories.

"At least initially, the secrecy, the censorship, the denial of
the existence of all this was the appropriate course of action.
Until our leaders could determine that this did not represent a
genuine threat to the national security, I think the secrecy and
the falsehoods that were publicly presented about UFOs were
entirely appropriate and justifiable. But decades ago, the
secrecy should have slowly but surely ended. People should have
been made aware of the reality of all this. This is not science
fiction, this is not Hollywood, this is not the funny papers."

Hastings asked how many of those in attendance had ever heard of
UFOs reported at nuclear weapons sites. A show of hands
indicated that about 20 of the 300 people there had.

He also showed released Air Force documents that outlined the
sighting of UFOs by multiple people over a Montana base in 1975.
It reported a red, orange and white object hovering overhead,
then subsequently ascending rapidly, so officers on the ground
could not distinguish it from the stars.

Finally, he presented one FBI memorandum that many UFO
researchers term the "smoking gun." It's dated March 22, 1950,
and addressed to Hoover. It discusses the recovery of saucers in
New Mexico as well as the recovery of "bodies of human shape but
only 3 feet tall."

Hastings said the extent of his research has also included
interviews with many retired military and government officials,
most of whom, he said, tell him they haven't spoken of their
experiences in 30 years. Those sources tell Hastings they
believe that someone out there is trying to tell us about the
dangers of nuclear weapons.

He also reassured audience members that if they wanted to, they
could get the same documents he had shown them. He provided the
audience with two websites that could be used to access many of
these documents. He said that eventually, the public would be
made aware of what's been going on over the last half century.

"It is simply a question of time. It may be tomorrow; it may be
another 50 years. But all of this will be out in the open. I
think we're all in for a very interesting future."

C. Brookings Register 2003






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   Apr > Apr 22

               Re: Court Ruling Keeps Documents Confidential -

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 12:40:27 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 14:24:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Court Ruling Keeps Documents Confidential -


 >From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 16:11:09 -0300
 >Subject: Court Ruling Keeps Documents Confidential

 >Source: The Washington Times

 >http://washingtontimes.com/national/20030417-69509372.htm

 >NEVADA-CARSON CITY - April 17, 2003 - A federal appeals court
 >has refused to open confidential documents that might reveal if
 >substances handled at the secret Air Force Base at Area 51 were
 >hazardous.

 >The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals this week upheld the
 >decision of U.S. District Judge Philip Pro, who released
 >transcripts of hearings but with classified information blacked
 >out.

 >Five workers and the widows of two former employees filed suit
 >saying they were exposed to toxic fumes at the base.

Hello All,

These people lost family members while they were working in
service to their nation and now they are being left to dangle in
the wind by the very same government institutions that their
loved ones sacrificed their lives serving.

What an amazing reward for service above and beyond the
call of duty.

One of Bill Clinton's last presidential acts before leaving office
was to make sure that anything connected to Area 51 remained
sealed and out of public view. It was this very same lawsuit by
the families of the former employees of Area 51 that prompted
it.

Man, what a load of hokum and underhanded, back-stabbing  on the
part of our government. The 'right hand' doesn't have the
foggiest notion what the 'left hand' is doing. For the longest
time they 'officially' denied the existence of Area 51 while at
the very same time Bill Clinton was off issuing presidential
decrees/ orders that no information regarding this 'non-
existent' base is to be revealed to the public. If it wasn't all
so very sad it would be hilarious.

My empathy and support goes out to these poor families who, like
so many UFO witnesses, are being denied access to vital
information. The 'truth' would probably help them to win their
legal case and... to open the doors for others to question the
doings at the old Skunkworks - especially UFOwise.

All this blasted secrecy is destroying us as a nation and as a
democracy. Between all the secrecy and the unbelievable amount
of media control, there is little difference between America
circa 2003 and the USSR/Pravda circa 1953.

I only wish there was something we could do to help those poor
families in their quest for justice. They deserve to be
compensated for their tremendous personal and irreplaceable
loss.


Regards,

John Velez,





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   Apr > Apr 22

                       Re: Russian UFO Crash? - Mantle

From: Philip Mantle <philip.mantle@eidosnet.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 16:59:09 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 15:33:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Russian UFO Crash? - Mantle


 >From: Royce J. Myers III - The Watchdog <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 09:28:32 -0700
 >Subject: Russian UFO Crash?


Dear Colleagues,

This piece of information entered my mailbox today. I am
therefore trying to verify its accuracy. Can you help ? If not
perhaps you could provide me with a reputable media source in
Russia that could assist. Perhaps a journalist or TV producer
for example. The story simply sounds too good to be true. If
anyone can help or provide a contact telephone number of someone
in Russia where we might follow up this story, please contact me
direct at:

E-mail: philip.mantle@eidosnet.co.uk
Telephone (UK): 01924 441411.


Regards,

Philip Mantle






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   Apr > Apr 22

                       Re: Russian UFO Crash? -Gehrman

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 11:18:44 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 15:37:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Russian UFO Crash? -Gehrman


I thought listers might want an update on the Kaliningrad
Harbour UFO crash.

http://www.wintersteel.com/UFO_Crash_Ru.html

Baltic UFO Crash Raises Questions


KLININGRAD, RUSSIA (Monday, April 21, 2003) The entire Russian
Baltic Fleet and a larg number or residents of Kaliningrad
(formerly Koenigsburg), a city of over 3 million inhabitants, in
the Russian Baltic enclave on the Baltic Sea, watched in awe,
last Friday, as an ultra-silent Unidentified Flying Object,
moving at estimated super-sonic speeds, winged over rapidly and
plunged into Kaliningrad Harbour at approximately 6:17 pm. Local
Time.

The event was caught on videotape by a local RTR Russian State
Television news crew, which was present on the massive naval
base, filming a documentary segment on the fleet for airing on
Russian television. It would now appear that some questions are
being raised as to the origin of the craft, which was described
as a "silver coloured flying wing".

While divers and a massive dredging operation have, as yet,
failed to recover debris larger than approximately one meter in
size, the recovery effort, continues. Divers at the scene report
elevated water temperatures near the suspected impact site,
which lead to speculation that a major portion of the craft
might well be in tact. Also noted are elevated levels of
background radiation, although these are not reported, by the
Russian Navy, or Russian Ministry of Health as being in the
"dangerous" range.

At the time of the crash, minor damage occurred to one Sovremini
Class Destroyer, but no casualties have been reported. The craft
appears to be a near total loss, and, as yet, no bodies have
been found, or recovered. The craft was overflying the base of
the Russian Navy's Baltic Fleet. It is assumed that fleet radar
interfered with the craft's guidance system. Naval personnel
catagoricaly deny that the craft was shot down, or in any way
deliberately interfered with.

As stated, by all witnesses present, the craft was completely
silent, and even at speeds estimated at well in excess of Mach
2, did not create the characteristic "sonic boom" which
accompanies all known aircraft at such speeds.

Questions arose as to the nature of the craft, when several e-
mails were received regarding it's behaviour and appearence.
Richard Garner, of WJTV in Atlanta, Georgia, forwarded the
following response to his own inquiry, from Dennis XXXX, a
source known to him, and considered to be "very reliable". The
letter to Garner was headed "Importance High".

"Hi, Rick, The "flying wing" is actually an experimental spy
plane belonging to the US. When it lost control it ditched into
the water which will destroy all the electronics and gear inside
the plane (security feature). This plane actually flies faster
than the Aurora. Dennis".

For those who are unaware, "Aroura" is the "code name" for a
supposedly secret "next generation" stealth fighter prototype,
currently being produced by Boeing and Lockheed, and employing
what is thought to be advanced anti-gravity technology.

Further correspondence was received by WinterSteel, directly,
through it's forum, from a reader in Sweden. Mr. Kenneth XXXX
states, "Dear Sirs, What is going on in the Kenigsberg harbour!?
s it Virginia desinfo because the US is about to go on the road
again, this time towards Damascus... or maybe a desperate
Russian counter-measure in full panic? Or is it just a bloody
hoax? Anybody got some substance to give us? Regards, Kenneth".

One must wonder exactly what is being said in the Western media
about the Russian Federation. Why, would the report of a downed
Unidentified Flying Object, in a remote Russian harbour, have
anything to do with the current war that the United States is
waging in the Middle East? What kind of "counter measure" would
Russia be attempting in a "full panic"? Since the policy of the
Russian Federation, in the current Middle Eastern comflict has
been, and continues to be full and impartial neutrallity, there
is simply nothing to "counter". Russia is not at war with
anyone, and has no intention of going to war with anyone, until,
or unless it is directly attacked. There is, nor has there been
any "panic", although the curriousity level surrounding this
event is, in fact, rather high, causing continued coverage on
both the RTR and NTV television networks.

With the current level of satallite intellegence gathering, and
the state-of-the-art in that particular field of technology, one
would certainly question the wisdom of any nation, particularlly
the United States, the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom or
any other technologically advanced nation, overflying the base
of primary fleet assets of a friendly, and neutral power, with
completely undisclosed, extremely high-technology aviation
assets. Stranger things, however, have been done.

Still, even the possibillity of the craft being of terrestrial,
rather than extraterrestrial origin, leads to some interesting
questions, with regard to the development of current aviation
technology, in general. While one may examine the "standard"
type aircraft, and see it's clear resemblence to aircraft of the
past... all the way back to the original Wright Flyer of a
century (this very year) ago, such a comparrison is difficult
with regard to aircraft such as the F-117 "Stealth" Fighter, the
Russian MiG 32 and the Boeing B-2 (lovingly called the "Bat
Plane") "Stealth" Bomber.

None of these aircraft bear any aerodynamic or design similarity
to any "accepted" form of aircraft. Much less so, the Northrop
"UCAV", the X-47A Pegasus UAV, or allegedly, the "Aroura" and
Boeing F-3 "anti-gravity" project. There has, and is still much
speculation surrounding the idea that all of these designs, which are
fundamentally un-aerodynamic, and should be quite difficult to keep
airborn and controlable, already employ some form of "anti-gravity"
evice to compensate for what wold appear to be chronic
underpowering. Of course, any aeronautical engineer will say,
without reservation, that a brick can be made to fly, given
enough power... however, there is no evidence that any of these
designs have sufficiently powerful engines to keep them airborn and
maneuverable under what would be considered to be the
accepted laws of physics.

Therefore, the question remains, regardless of the origin of the
Kaliningrad craft, or any other craft of this nature, where, in
fact, did the technology, itself come from? It certainly bears
no resemblence to any known aircraft to this point in time.

The Russian Federation has a long and illustrious history of
openness, with regard to Unidentified Flying Object research.
Traditionally, reports of Unidentified Objects are treated quite
seriously and investigated, immediately, with the results being
open and available to the public. Pravda .ru, recently reported
on an incident, occurring on October 9th, 1998 at 8:02 p.m. A
pursuit plane with an experienced crew of two pilots encountered
a red ball not far from the Misava base. As soon as pilots
prepared to attack the object, the radio contact with the plane
was lost. A rescue team managed to find a part of the wing and
some documents on the water surface. The pilots of the plane are
still considered to be missing.

In May, 2001, an RTR State Television crew recorded a
"triangular" shaped Unidentified Flying Object flying over the
White Sea coast, broadcasting live feed on a nationwide basis,
as a "Special Report. Reconissance aircraft, dispatched to
photograph the craft, approached within ten kilometers, at which
point the craft increased speed and "shot straight upward" in
the words of one of the persuing pilots.

Likewise, in October, 2002, an news crew covering military
exercises on the Dagistani border tracked and filmed an
Unidentified Flying object for over half an hour, including a
fly-by by Russian Air Force MiG 29 reconnissance aircraft.

More Updates to Follow...





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   Apr > Apr 22

                        Italian UFO Newsflash No. 390

From: Edoardo Russo <e.russo@cisu.org>
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 19:09:15 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 16:24:43 -0400
Subject: Italian UFO Newsflash No. 390


ITALIAN UFO NEWSFLASH

ISSUE NO. 390 - 10 APRIL 2003

by the Italian Center for UFO Studies
(Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici, CISU)

Contents:

- Ten Days of UFOs On Italian TV
- Announcement To CISU Members
- New Space Journal From R. Pinotti


TEN DAYS OF UFOS ON ITALIAN TV

Although the war in Iraq has taken over television sets, this
has been an unusually "hot" beginning of the month when it comes
to UFOs on TV.

Maurizio Baiata came to blows on 6 April on Raidue TV during the
morning slot of "In famiglia" ("In The Family") with physicist
Antonio Zichichi and anthropologist Cecilia Gatto Trocchi; Marco
Morocutti dismissed the revelations by the KGB's dossiers on
UFOs on the broadcast "Top Secret" on Wednesday, 9 April, on
Rete 4; and last but not least, Paolo Toselli will be the guest
on TG2 Rai "Net Young" on Saturday, 12 April.

Meanwhile, on the fiction side, after the UFO segment of the
Japanese cartoon "Hamtaro" on Italia 1 TV (where the purported
"Little Men from Space" were meant to abduct the hamster
character), there aired on the night of 1 April on the same
network an old 1964 segment of the cult series "The
Thunderbirds", entitled "Martians on the Earth" and inspired by
the celebrated "Socorro Case": it featured the standard flying
saucers landed in the desert and arrival of the police to
observe the presence of "green men." On Italia 1 TV once again
during the previous evening, in the meantime, there occurred the
TV debut of the movie "The Flintstones - Viva Las Vegas", with
its opening, plot and action obviously "ufological" in theme.

[UFO-Italia, 8 and 9 April; reports and collaboration by Marco
Bianchini, Antonio Blanco, Gildo Persone', Giuseppe Stilo and
Paolo Toselli]


ANNOUNCEMENT TO CISU MEMBERS

On 9 April, a meeting was called of the the Italian Center for
UFO Studies Council of Directors.

Among the topics discussed: notification of the Members Meeting
for approval of the budget and the appointment of the new
directors; the date, location and theme of the 18th National UFO
Conference; the candidacies for the 2002 Alberto Lazzaro Award
and for a number of corporate appointments; the participation of
the CISU in some national events; upcoming publications; and
ratification of a variety of decisions already taken informally.

Full members will receive the meeting minutes, and a summary
will be sent to all members.

[Collaboration by Gian Paolo Grassino]


NEW SPACE JOURNAL FROM PINOTTI

On newsstands now is a new periodical from Roberto Pinotti.

Its name is "Spazio futuro" ("Future Space"), and it's actually
the same quarterly "Gli speciali dei misteri" ("Mystery
Specials") which accompanies the monthly "Ufo Notiziario" ("UFO
Newsletter") with monographic special editions. The first issue
which appeared in January and was entitled "Oltre l'ignoto"
("Beyond the Unknown") was devoted to the paranormal, while this
second one focuses on mysteries connected with astronautics and
astronomy: from supposed Soviet cosmonauts predating Gagarin to
the various mysteries of Mars, from SETI to the tenth planet of
the solar system, and from space stations to the Hessdalen
phenomena.

Its price is 5 Euro for 96 pages in color.


Collaborators on this edition were:
Marco Bianchini, Antonio Blanco, Gian Paolo Grassino,
Gildo Persone', Giuseppe Stilo and Paolo Toselli.


- - -

This is the English translation of UFOTEL, a free
phone/Internet information service on UFOs edited
weekly by Edoardo Russo for the Italian Center for
UFO Studies (Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici),
available in Italian by calling +39-011-545294,
or by e-mail subscription, or on CISU website
at http://www.arpnet.it/ufo/ultime.htm

UFOTEL is a supplement to "UFO - Rivista di
informazione ufologica", published by the Italian
Center for UFO Studies, registered at Tribunale
di Torino, No. 3670, on 19 June 1986.
Director: Giovanni Settimo.
Publisher: Cooperativa UPIAR, Corso Vittorio
Emanuele 108, 10121 Turin, Italy

Translated from Italian to English by:
Gary J. Presto,
Freelance Italian>English Translator & Proofreader
44 Bickford Ave., Apt. 2
Revere, MA 02151
USA

Tel.: ++1.781.485.1683
FAX: ++1.781.485.1684
E-mail: gpresto@attbi.com
Webpage: http://www.proz.com/translator/723



- - -

(c) 2003 by: CISU,
Corso Vittorio Emanuele 108, 10121 Torino, Italia

This newsletter (as a whole or in part) may be freely copied,
photocopied, reproduced, stored, distributed and retrieved, at
the only condition that Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici is
reported as the source.

You may get it directly via e-mail by subscribing (just send a
blank message to: cisuflash-subscribe@yahoogroups.com)

The CISU is a no-profit association whose aims are:
- to promote the scientific study of UFO phenomena in Italy;
- to help circulate information about UFO phenomena and studies;
- to coordinate national activities of data collecting and studying.

You may reach Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici:
- by mail: CISU, Corso Vittorio Emanuele 108, 10121 Torino, Italia
- by phone: +39 (011) 30.78.63 (24 hours UFO Hotline)
- by fax: +39 (011) 54.50.33
- by Internet e-mail: cisu@ufo.it
- at the World Wide Web URL: http://www.cisu.org





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   Apr > Apr 22

                    Man Phoned At Home To Go UFO Hunting

From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 16:35:38 -0300
Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 16:48:18 -0400
Subject: Man Phoned At Home To Go UFO Hunting

Source: News Shopper - UK

http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/search/display.html?nwid=720854

11:44 Tuesday 22nd April 2003

An alien hunter says he has caught a UFO on camera with a police
helicopter chasing it.

Chris Martin, 42, was telephoned at home by his sister, Patricia
Roberts, who was watching events unfold from her back garden at
around 9.30pm.

He rushed to Prince of Wales Road, Blackheath, near Mrs Robert's
Lochaber Road home, where he says he saw a flying object being
tracked by the chopper nearby.

Mr Martin, of Patrick Connolly Gardens, Bromley-By-Bow, says he
filmed the helicopter focusing its searchlight on a light-
emitting flying object.

The father-of-one told News Shopper: "I can't say what it was,
but it should not have been there, and was definitely a UFO.

"The police helicopter seemed to be chasing it and shining its
searchlight onto it. I believe they were sent out to intercept
the craft."

Martian-mad Mr Martin gave up his job as a session guitarist to
study UFO sightings and suspected alien visits full-time in
1997. The extraterrestrial enthusiast, who had a book on the
subject published in 2000, says the aliens do not come here just
to see the sights.

He said: "I believe in life on other planets and I believe they
visit us regularly in their alien craft.

"They come to collect information and gather genetic material by
abducting humans and animals."

Mr Martin added: "The aliens are using their advanced technology
to create hybrid species."

But police have denied any knowledge of UFOs in the area and
have told News Shopper the helicopter was tracking a less
unusual target on April 8.

A spokesman for Greenwich police said: "A police helicopter was
in the air, in that area and at that time, because of a traffic
collision.

"A person was seen running away from one of the cars involved
and a helicopter was sent up to help in the search for the man
who was never traced.

"We were not responding to any reports of UFOs in the Blackheath





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   Apr > Apr 22

                      HabStars: Speeding Up In the Zone

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 17:02:47 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 17:02:47 -0400
Subject: HabStars: Speeding Up In the Zone



Source: Astrobiology Magazine

http://www.astrobio.net/news/article436.html

HabStars: Speeding Up In the Zone
by Astrobiology Magazine staffwriter

Jill Tarter and Margaret Turnbull have a wish list.

To maximize the search for extraterrestrial technological
signals, the SETI researchers know where the next generation
radio telescopes should start pointing.

Their HabCat, or Catalog of Nearby Habitable Systems, was
created from what is known about habitable stars, or 'habstars',
near our sun. Seventy-five percent are within 140 parsecs, or
around 450 light years. These Sun-like, habitable stars have
just the right distance, constancy, and light to qualify in a
forthcoming enlarged radio search.

A former list of 2000 targets guided the search for Project
Phoenix, a privately funded All-Sky-Survey that continued NASA's
High Resolution Microwave Survey (HRMS). In 1993, that mission
commenced to search for continuous and pulsed radio signals from
extrasolar civilizations. Each year, the Phoenix Project buys
three weeks of telescope time to observe 200 stars using the
world's largest capable dish, the Arecibo Observatory in Puerto
Rico. All that is about to change in the next two years.

Tarter and Turnbull are preparing for much bigger and faster
searches. In 2005, a joint effort by the SETI Institute and the
University of California-Berkeley expects to increase the speed
of this search by 100 times or more (~20,000 stars per year).
But even without their help, this faster search would begin to
exhaust nearby habstars.

The new shortlist of habstars has grown nearly 9-fold.

Their article, "Target Selection for SETI: I. A Catalog of
Nearby Habitable Stellar Systems," published in the
Astrophysical Journal, identifies 17,129 potentially habitable
hosts for complex life. The co-authors plan a follow-up article
that will prioritize which habstars to target first.

The creation of the Catalog of Habitable Stellar Systems was
motivated by the ongoing and rapid development of a network of
350 radio antenna dishes. Called the Allen Telescope Array (or
ATA), the network ties together 6.1 meter (~20 foot) diameter
dishes for a total surface area as large as eight football
fields. In 2005, the telescope will be completed using
commercial satellite dishes and be located 290 miles northeast
of San Francisco.

Tarter and Turnbull winnowed down about 120,000 Hipparcos stars
to those that could be habitable to life as we know it for
observation during the first few years of ATA operation.

In evaluating Sun-like targets as suitable hosts for
communicating life forms, one recurring theme is defining
habitability. At the very least, candidate stars need
terrestrial planets. For life to develop on Earth, liquid water
and certain heavy atomic elements like phosphorus were also
needed. Stars with very low metal content probably formed from a
cloud that did not have enough heavy metals to make planets or
life forms. These needs refined the HabCat list to only those
stars exceeding a lower limit on stellar metallicity, about 40
percent that of the sun.

Planets and water might be enough for simple life, but stars
also must remain nearly constant in brightness over billions of
years for complex life to have time to develop. On Earth, single
cells may have developed after only 800 million years or so, but
the fossil record indicates that it took another 3 to 4 billion
years before multi-cellular life flourished.

The authors write that accurate luminosities are "perhaps the
most important information we use in determining the
habitability of nearby stars" for complex life, because
luminosity indicates which phase of life the star is in, and
that in turn dictates how long the star will remain stable.

Our own sun follows an 11-year, "bright and dark" cycle (the
sunspot cycle), yet its luminosity fluctuates over that time by
only 2 parts per 10,000 (0.02 percent). A drop in solar radiance
of half a percent or less locked terrestrial life into the
coldest years of the Little Ice Age (1550-1700 A.D.).

Turnbull and Tarter took on the daunting task of evaluating
118,218 nearby stars, using membership criteria of constant
luminosity and potential habitable zones. A database search gave
them their first cut, which they call the "Celestia sample." If
a star fluctuated by 3 percent in its luminosity, the level of
variability detectable to Hipparcos, complex life would be
imperiled.

Stars that Don't Twinkle

A star's twinkle in the night sky is due to the distorting
effects of our atmosphere. If stars like our sun actually varied
or twinkled that much, life as we know it would cease to exist.

For that reason, Tarter and Turnbull are not interested in
sifting through what they term, "the cataclysmic, eruptive,
pulsating, rotating, or X-ray" stars. If those stars had
planets, their climate would prove a quick killer. Such stars
are relatively common, so after eliminating such stars from the
search, the Celestia sample totaled about half of the original
list, or 64,120 candidate stars.

The remaining stars could be narrowed down even further based on
mass, color, and age. The final list of candidates needed to
have just the right size and composition. If, for example, a
habstar expanded or shrank over the required 3 billion years for
complex life to develop, then orbiting planets would experience
ice ages and runaway greenhouses.

Another two-thirds (64%) of the HabCat candidates fell off this
wish list because, while it may be possible for advanced life to
survive, the stars posed a threat to well-known biological
sensitivities. For example, the excessive ultraviolet (UV)
radiation of a star could cause DNA to fragment or mutate.
However, Tarter and Turnbull note that these assumptions may
change in the future with additional data.

The scientists also excluded young star systems. Young stars
typically have high rotations, they emit soft X-rays above and
beyond their estimated temperatures, or they haven't burned
through enough light elements to produce metals (heavy elements
like iron).

The survivors in the catalog at this point numbered only one in
six stars, or 20,814 potential candidates.

Favorable Stars As Loners

After eliminating the variable, low metallicity or very young
stars from HabCat, Turnbull and Tarter took on the binary and
multiple star systems. As disquieting as a dual sunrise and
sunset might prove to our own biorhythms, there are a great
number of multiple star systems where such broken days occur.
The fraction of solar-type stars in binary or multiple systems
has been estimated to be two out of every three stars. These
stars have fewer stable orbits for hosting planets with liquid
water, and planets would have a higher danger of either spinning
out of the system (ejection) or spiraling into one of the stars
(accretion). Very elliptical orbits also cause climatic chaos.

Turnbull and Tarter examined the "habitable zone" (where liquid
water can exist on an Earth-like planet) around each potential
habstar that was part of a binary or multiple sytem. By
eliminating systems where the habitable zones were not stable,
about 2200 of 3500 stars in binary or multiple systems were kept
in the HabCat.

The HabCat inventory was nearly finished, their final cut done.

It Takes a Planet to Feed a Village

Even if a star is classified as "habitable", the orbiting
planets might not be. Our neighboring planet, Venus, has a
surface hot enough to melt lead. Presumably, any carbon-based
intelligence capable of communication needs some solid ground
from which to broadcast.

In 1993, Project Phoenix began looking at 2,000 candidate stars
for signs of life. Since then, a revolution in astronomy has
taken place. Scientists have discovered and catalogued an ever-
increasing number of extrasolar planets.

Of the 17,000 or so habstars in our neighborhood of the galaxy,
55 harbor already-discovered planets. Owing to the challenges of
detecting a relatively tiny pale blue dot, all of these planets
are hugely massive. The least massive one identified so far (HD
49674), is about a tenth the mass of our own Jupiter - a so-
called gas giant.

Gas giants are unlikely to support Earth-like life. Cutting the
stars whose giant planets interfered with the habitable zone
(which could otherwise contain habitable terrestrial planets),
the final HabCat was ready for press. It includes 17,129
habstars, all ready for investigation with the Allen Telescope
Array.

As Turnbull and Tarter note: "Despite the broad array of data
used to assemble this catalog, this exercise has forced us to
admit that we are defining habitability from a position of
considerable ignorance...For SETI this humbling situation is
amplified when we consider that we have no indisputable
definition for life itself, to say nothing of the precise
conditions that are necessary and sufficient for life to evolve
into a technological civilization detectable by a SETI search
program."

Turnbull and Tarter took time from their busy preparations to
outline for Astrobiology Magazine the highlights of how they
built HabCat and what they plan next.

Turnbull (Steward Observatory, Univ. Arizona, Tucson) and Tarter
(SETI Institute, Mountain View, California) broadly described
their insights into galactic habitability.

Interview with Margaret Turnbull and Jill Tarter

Astrobiology Magazine (AB): How did work on the new HabCat
begin?

Jill Tarter (JT): This paper [Target Selection for SETI] is part
of [Margaret's] thesis in Astrobiology at the University of
Arizona. The need for a larger target list is driven by the
desire to do simultaneous radio astronomy and SETI observing at
the same time.

AB: What was the primary motivation-- to expand the 2000 Phoenix
targets to 17,000 HabCat targets for the Allen Telescope Array
(ATA)? Does this derive in part from the enhanced search
capabilities expected from the new array?

Margaret Turnbull (MT): Absolutely. Whereas Project Phoenix has
been observing about 200 stars per year, the ATA will be capable
of observing 10,000 or more, at three times the frequency
coverage and four times the spectral resolution of Project
Phoenix.

Observing this many targets annually means that HabCat will have
to be supplemented by even larger target lists, and currently we
are assembling a list of about 100,000 stars from the Tycho-2
catalog. Such a list will not be nearly as "refined" as HabCat
due to a severe lack of parallax and spectral data, but we will
do our best to keep our targets on the main sequence.

JT: With 6-meter telescopes, the primary field of view of the
array is about 3 degrees across at 1 gigahertz, but it shrinks
by factor of ten at 10 gigahertz, so to have enough targets to
always find one or more in the preferred field of view requires
very large lists. The lifecycle of the ATA will be long, and
we'll start at lower frequencies where the beamsize is larger.

AB: Where is the Allen Telescope Array in its current
development timeline?

JT: ATA completion is probably 2005.

MT: The Prototype Test Array at Hat Creek now has three
antennas. Ultimately it will consist of 350 individual 20-foot
antennas, providing a larger total collecting area than the
Green Bank Telescope in West Virginia and higher resolution than
the Arecibo dish.

AB: How did the target list prioritize its selections for
HabCat?

MT: We are currently working on a prioritization algorithm for
all of our SETI targets, including several subsets of objects
not included in HabCat, to be published in a second paper.

AB: Your first paper weights candidate stellar systems for X-ray
luminosity, rotation, spectral types, kinematics, metallicity,
and Str=F6mgren photometry, correct? That's the long equation for
acceptance.

MT: For the HabCat stars, inclusion in the catalog was based on
the X-ray and other data you mentioned, but priority will be
assigned based on location in the color-magnitude diagram [CMD]
and on distance. A plot of the CMD score would look like a
bull's-eye centered on the sun's absolute visual magnitude and
B-V color, with the highest score at the center. The distance
scoring will go as the inverse square of distance, or the
detectability of a given signal.

We are still considering how to weight these two factors, but
most likely the distance score will dominate within a certain
distance. One idea is that, given the first terrestrial
transmissions of a century ago, HabCat stars within the possible
ETI [extraterrestrial intelligence] response distance of 50
light years should have scores dominated by distance.

AB: What is the significance of excluding, or annotating the
catalog with, binary and ternary stellar systems? Is this
because an orbital instability is incompatible with habitability
criteria?

MT: In fact, we included in HabCat approximately 2,200 stars
that are members of known binary or triple systems, and each of
these systems has passed our test for dynamical stability of the
habitable zone. For 3,500 candidate habstars in multiple
systems, we mapped out the location of the habitable zone
according to work done by Kasting, Whitmire and Reynolds [1993,
Icarus, 101,108].

To determine if that location is dynamically stable in the
presence of the companion stars, we used the stability criteria
developed by Holman and Wiegert [1999, Astrophysical Journal,
117, 621]. It turned out that many binary and triple systems
were habitable, including 21 tight binaries where the habitable
zone encompasses both stars.

AB: So what's planned in forthcoming projects?

MT: This work falls within the broader themes of, first, the
overall habitability of the Milky Way, and, second, the remote
sensing of biosignatures. My dissertation work includes topics
such as characterizing the Earthshine signal, including spectral
signatures of life; constraining the fraction of habitable stars
in the solar neighborhood; identifying suitable targets for the
Terrestrial Planet Finder mission; and examining the concept of
a habitable belt in the Galaxy.

JT: We were sorry to see FAME [Full-sky Astrometric Mapping
Explorer] cancelled, since it would have provided 40 million
parallaxes [or star positions].

[To further refine HabCat], in FAME's absence we'll have to use
reduced proper motions and color-color relationships from the
Tycho-2 Catalog while waiting for SIM [NASA's Space
Interferometry Mission] and GAIA [European Space Agency's
Galactic Census Project].


Editor's Note: For HabCat the current best set of stellar
distances comes from what astronomers call Hipparcos parallax
measurements which give values accurate to ~ 1 milli-arcsecond.
Several new astrometric satellites are now being planned to
measure star distances.

The most ambitious planned star cataloguing projects are NASA's
Space Interferometry Mission and ESA's Galactic Census Project,
or GAIA mission, which may yield large numbers of parallaxes
with precisions better than ~ 10 micro-arcseconds. SIM is
scheduled to operate from 2006 to 2011 while GAIA, if accepted
by ESA, could launch in 2009 with a 5 year lifetime.

SIM would provide astrometric measurements of 10,000 stars and
GAIA would measure around 10 billion positions. The next
scheduled astrometry mission, however, was the now cancelled
FAME (Full-sky Astrometric Mapping Explorer), which was
scheduled to be launched in 2004.

What's Next

Conservatively as catalogued so far, the preferred habstars must
be 3 billion years old, stable, and support liquid water on the
surface of whatever planets are properly distanced. These
planets reside in a habitable zone, satisfying the precondition
for complex life to develop. Three out of four reside within a
communication neighborhood spanning around 450 light years.

When the Allen Telescope Array turns on in 2005, its transmitter
powers will be comparable to the Arecibo planetary radar (1
megawatt) and thus could search to the farthest of 17,000
habstars, just beyond 300 parsecs. For those search distances,
an electromagnetic communication, if detected, would have begun
broadcasting a millennium ago, just about 1000 AD on a
terrestrial calendar (a transmission 978 light-years old).


[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]






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   Apr > Apr 23

                           CI: Hexagon in Cydonia?

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 20:44:50 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 07:23:47 -0400
Subject: CI: Hexagon in Cydonia?


Cydonian Imperative
4-23-03

Hexagon in Cydonia?
by Mac Tonnies

See: http://www.mactonnies.com/cydonia.html (Page 37)

Mark Kelly of Electrobus has created a most interesting
animation suggesting a possible connection between a supposedly
hexagonal crater in the Cydonia region and the alignment of the
Face. Given the various other alignments and parallels
associated with the Face, the placement of the "hexagon" in
Kelly's presentation may not be coincidental.

The most significant problem posed by the "hexagon" is the
object's true shape. A camera with five times the magnification
of the Mars Orbiter Camera aboard the Mars Global Surveyor is
set to investigate Mars in 2005. If trained on Cydonia, a better
approximation of the "hexagon's" true shape may be determined.

To view Kelly's animation, see the URL below:

http://www.electrobus.com/wordsmith/hex

Thanks to Mark Kelly and Chris Joseph.






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                      Re: Russian UFO Crash? - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 01:12:41 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 07:30:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Russian UFO Crash? - Maccabee


 >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 11:18:44 -0700
 >Subject: Russian UFO Crash?

 >I thought listers might want an update on the Kaliningrad
 >Harbour UFO crash.

 >http://www.wintersteel.com/UFO_Crash_Ru.html

 >Baltic UFO Crash Raises Questions


 >KLININGRAD, RUSSIA (Monday, April 21, 2003) The entire Russian
 >Baltic Fleet and a larg number or residents of Kaliningrad
 >(formerly Koenigsburg), a city of over 3 million inhabitants, in
 >the Russian Baltic enclave on the Baltic Sea, watched in awe,
 >last Friday, as an ultra-silent Unidentified Flying Object,
 >moving at estimated super-sonic speeds, winged over rapidly and
 >plunged into Kaliningrad Harbour at approximately 6:17 pm. Local
 >Time.

I'll believe this when I see "hard" data of high credibility.





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                   Re: CI: Hexagon in Cydonia? - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 10:13:33 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 13:37:17 -0400
Subject: Re: CI: Hexagon in Cydonia? - Stanford


 >From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
 >To: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
 >Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 20:44:50 -0700 (PDT)
 >Subject: CI: Hexagon in Cydonia?

 >Cydonian Imperative
 >4-23-03

 >Hexagon in Cydonia?
 >by Mac Tonnies

 >See: http://www.mactonnies.com/cydonia.html (Page 37)

 >Mark Kelly of Electrobus has created a most interesting
 >animation suggesting a possible connection between a supposedly
 >hexagonal crater in the Cydonia region and the alignment of the
 >Face. Given the various other alignments and parallels
 >associated with the Face, the placement of the "hexagon" in
 >Kelly's presentation may not be coincidental.

 >The most significant problem posed by the "hexagon" is the
 >object's true shape.

<snip>

Hexagonal and quasi-hexagonal craters are by no means rare in
the solar system, including on earth, on our moon, and a bunch
of other places.  They seem to form as some kind of impact
excavation and ejection phenomenon as yet not (to my knowledge)
analyzed, but because of their abundance, they seem to be purely
impact-substrate related and definitely not a product of
'intelligent' construction.

I am not 'talking off the top of my head' about this, but have
examined this ejection phenomenon for over twenty years,
studying examples published many places including in the journal
Meteoritics and Planetary Science, and never entertaining the
idea of intelligent construction, but pondering what caused the
impact excavation-ejection to leave a hexagonal crater. I
suspect chaotic interactions to be a causative factor, but am
not enough of a mathematician to be able to try and 'model' the
phenomenon.

It seems that I even recall seeing, somewhere, where artificial
impacts into certain types of substrate have replicated the
hexagonal impact cratering effect, but do not recall where I
read about it.  If or when I can find it, I will send a
reference to this list.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery





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   Apr > Apr 23

                  Houston British Columbia Report 04-23-03

From: Brian Vike HBCCUFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 02:09:55 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 13:42:27 -0400
Subject: Houston British Columbia Report 04-23-03


Houston, British Columbia

Date:  April 21, 2003
Time:  11:45 p.m.
Weather conditions: Clear
Witness: 2
Local call:

I had a local call today from a Houston resident who asked if I
was free and if I would be able to drop by his home. I jumped
into the car and drove the 2 kilometers east from Houston to his
home, where they have a large farm. When I arrived I was greeted
by the fellow who asked if I would come in and listen to a story
of a strange event that took place April 21, 2003, at 11:45
p.m..

We sat down and he explained that he was walking home from his
bothers place, (which runs along highway #16). As he got to
where their driveway meets the highway, he saw a large blackened
object (craft) flying very low over top the tree line and across
the highway heading in an easterly direction coming from the
west (?). He told me what caught his attention to the object was
that being a completely clear night and gazing up at the stars
there was a large part of the sky in which no stars were
visible, but only the outline of something huge and dark in
color. As we watched it a number of rolls of lights came on,
which scared him darn near out of his pants. He told me he ran
the short distance to their home and yelled to his mother to
come out and look at what he was watching. Both of them stood
looking at this massive object "slowly" fly by. All of a sudden
the lights that were visible which had just came on, went out.
Due to the farm having a great deal of trees around it, they
soon started to lose sight of what ever it was that was flying
by. (HBCC UFO Note: I asked if they could give me a rough idea
what the shape of this object looked like. Both said it looked
as if it might have been triangular in shape. How they came to
this idea was due to the lights which came on. The witnesses
said the rolls of lights on the underside of the craft seemed to
sweep back from a point on an angle. (direction the craft was
heading - so the front of it) Or to give a better idea may be if
one was looking at a flight of geese in a V formation. The main
colors of the lights were white, with some green/red also in the
mix. They also reported that it looked as if there were three
large rolls of the lights on the underside. I also asked if they
could tell me the rough size of it. They both said it was
"massive", then looked at one another hoping, I guess one would
come up with a better description of just how big this was. They
said it had to have been close to the size of a large jet
airliner, or a bit larger.

The sighting lasted approx: for 10 to 12 seconds before they
lost sighting of it, after looking around the area where they
live I figured that would have been a long time to view this due
to so many trees which would have started to block their view of
the object. "No" sound was heard what so ever. They also have a
large dog in which seemed to be disturbed as the craft flew on
by so they said. The fellow said the object  was approximately
400 to 500 feet above the tree tops, which was pretty darn low.
(HBCC UFO Note: I wondered if the object had made some kind of
change in it's flight path before the witness caught sight of
it. These folks live right below Mount Harry Davis, so if it
came from over top the mountain it would have had to drop
approx: 1500 feet to arrive at the height the people reported
seeing it at. Or I wondered if  the object had flown from the
south, which would have taken it over, or close to the town of
Houston, B.C. and then made it's turn easterly. Another strange
thing they mentioned. (a little sketchy here), but their
impression of it was that it had a large body  to it. Meaning it
wasn't so much flat, but more raised at the top of it. ( Bulging
at the top, but curved if one had blown up a balloon - They
could not be completely sure of this, but as I mentioned, it was
their impression of how they saw it).

The Mom said she hardly slept that night just thinking about it,
the fellow didn't seem to have a problem with it after it was
all done and over with. But I could certainly hear the
excitmentment in their voices when they spoke about this event.

(HBCC UFO Note: Last year for all of 2002, as many of you know I
dealt with a large amount of reported sightings. But I did not
have many, or any come to think of it, these triangle sighting.
This year, 2003 I have had a number of reports of these types of
objects flying around my area here in the north, plus sightings
from the lower mainland. I am starting to scratch what hair I
have left on this bald head wondering what the heck is going on
up here. I still am getting reported sightings from local
residents, from Houston, Telkwa and Smithers of military
vehicles which were running around the area after the July 29,
2002 sighting. Actually the first week in August 2002 when
everything started showing up. Also what is interesting is, that
more folks are coming forward telling me of all the flights that
took place in the first week of August 2002 around these areas.
Unmarked aircraft, both fixed wing and helicopters. And folks I
can confirm a lot of this as I saw many of these aircraft
myself. And they all were flying right over the tree tops, just
as if they were looking for something. If that the case or not,
I don't really know. But I have no doubt in my mind something
major has, and still is taking place around the pacific
northwest here in British Columbia.The witnesses, or most of
them I can say are good reliable folks. Matter of fact even a
few of the reports have come from people in positions of
authority of different kinds. I also know I am only receiving a
small fraction of the reports, as every week I hear of another
sighting coming from a second or third party member. I don't
bother to report these as I want the actual witness to step
forward to give their account of what they saw. But there are
still so many who are not wanting to come forward.

There has been a few other strange things that have taken place
along Highway #16 throughout all the communities and I am
working on an article on this as well. Why this area is anyone's
guess. I know one thing for sure, there has been a "ton" of
lights/objects seen flying south up over and through the Morice
River Valley (or road). Now this may be reaching for the stars,
but I am trying to think of everything I can to give me a clue
to why so many sightings. Why so many being seen heading in the
Morice area. Someone brought up an idea to me, saying that the
government had closed a part of the Telkwa mountain range down
because they transplanted some Caribou a few years ago to the
area. Made me "think". It may be just that, not wanting the
snowmobiles frightening the animals which i certainly can
understand, but then again is there possibly another reason.
(See the old brain is still working. -:)))

Anyway, there you have the short version of things, also working
on a case out of Humboldt, Saskatchewan which took place on
April 19th, 2003. So I will see what I gather out of that one as
well and I will post any results I receive on it.

Take good care everyone.

Brian
HBCC UFO Research

BTW - If folks head over to visit my site these days,

http://www.geocities.com/hbccufo/home.html

on my home page there is some text which tells of a new site
that I am building up through the server I am with now, Telus.
They give everyone ten mbs of free space, and with no pop up
ads. So I am still keeping the site I have now, and it will be
updated all the time, but my new site will contain only Canadian
UFO reports and other Canadian information/material. It is a
simple site, really fast loading and all reports will be posted
there as well. Keep in mind I am still working on it and adding
a little everyday until I have moved all I am going to move from
the website I am on now.






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   Apr > Apr 23

                            New INEXPLICATA Site

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 10:16:53 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 13:46:10 -0400
Subject: New INEXPLICATA Site


INEXPLICATA
The Journal of Hispanic Ufology
April 23, 2003


Dear Friends of INEXPLICATA,

I am pleased to report that the Institute of Hispanic Ufology's
new website is up and running. The new issue (#11) is available
for your perusal at:

www.inexplicata.us

Kindly note the change of address in your bookmarks and web
browsers.


Regards and thanks,

Scott Corrales
Institute of Hispanic Ufology (IHU)





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                       UFO Buzzes Chilean Pickup Truck

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 10:45:22 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 13:53:15 -0400
Subject: UFO Buzzes Chilean Pickup Truck



SOURCE: Terra.cl
DATE: April 22, 2003


UFO HEADS FOR PICKUP TRUCK

** Roberto Caceres, 36, lived through a terrifying experience
last February in Chile's 9th Region**

SANTIAGO, April 17 -- Electrical engineer Roberto Caceres
experienced a terrifying ordeal last summer as he drove his
pickup truck from Temuco to Freire in Chile's 9th Region. For 15
minutes he was followed by a light that caused him to lose
control of his vehicle momentarily.

Caceres, 36, is married and once a year heads to the country's
southern reaches to make contacts for his electrical appliances
stor. Last February, he was driving his LUV pickup from Temuco
to the small town of Freire.


- So what happened during the trip?

- I was driving along very calmly. Some 15 minutes from Temuco,
I saw a strange white light on my right that was matching my
speed. I thought it was the train, but it wasn't.

- And what was it?

- That's what I'm still wondering. Worst of all is that in a
matter of seconds that light crossed right in front of my pickup
truck. The UFO headed for my truck. I swerved to avoid it
several times. It nearly hit me.

- What shape did the light have?

- It must have been the shape of a football. But I don't think
it had a defined body - it was pure light.

- Did it make any noise?

- No, at least not that I could hear. But it moved at incredible
speeds.

- Were you afraid?

- Of course, the thing was coming for me and I knew it wasn't
anything known. Besides, it was very dark outside.

- And no one else witnessed the light?

- I think several other cars behind me must have seen it. I
didn't have any time to ask. The time was around 22:00 hours.

- Were any prints left behind on the pickup truck?

- No. The first thing I did the next morning was check to see if
it had any prints or marks, but there were none. At times I
thought that the light had touched the truck..

- Were there any electrical aberrations or engine problems when
the alleged UFO appeared?

- No, everything worked normally. The lights were on and the
engine was running.

- After that, did the trip continue without incident?

- It was normal in quotation marks, because I kept thinking
about that UFO I'd seen. The rest of the trip was otherwise
normal

- Did you believe in UFOs prior to the experience?

- Yes. I always liked the subject. But from February until now
I've become even more curious about the subject. I think we
cannot be alone in this immense universe.

Translation (C) 2003 Scott Corrales IHU





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                Argentinean "Bigfoot" Discussed On Radio Show

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 10:59:14 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 14:00:11 -0400
Subject: Argentinean "Bigfoot" Discussed On Radio Show


INEXPLICATA
The Journal of Hispanic Ufology
April 23, 2003


[Report received from Argentina's Proyecto CATENT, dated
Tuesday, April 22, 2003 at 16;46 hrs. concerning a radio
broacast appearing on Radio 10, Buenos Aires]

[...]

"The station conducted a phone interview with Ezequiel
Alvarez, Chief of the Volunteer Fire Brigade of Rosario de la
Frontera. He stated that he himself had seen the strange beast
for over 8 minutes through his binoculars. He added that the
creature appeared "hyperkinetic", emitting powerful screams.

He added that the creature had killed three dogs, apparently
using its claws. Amid a report in which journalist Jorge
Jacobson and another mocked the fire chief, the latter added
that the animal customarily walks on two legs although he has
also seen it running on all fours.

Reference was also made of the schoolteacher from San Antonio de
los Cobres whom along with another person had found a cub of
this animal dead on the side of the road. According to the
witnesses, the creature had genitalia similar to humans. They
did not put it aboard their vehicle and just left the area as
soon as they could. The fire chief said that the carcass is
being looked for, but these efforts have thus far been
fruitless.

He added that judge Di Lascio is involved in the summary
proceedings, having opened the investigation out of a fear that
residents of Rosario de la Frontera may be in jeopardy,
particularly their young ones, since the creature prowls the
urban area near the garbage dump and appears at night.

Elements of the police and fire departments are constantly on
guard, but are surprised that the creature moves so quickly and
through different parts of the city. He reiterated that the
creature has the shape of a "hairy ape" standing 1.80 meters
tall.

He added that they have bite marks, hair and print samples of
the creature, adding that an analysis of the prints was
conducted without offering any further details. He added that an
article had appeared today in "La Gazeta de Hoy" (newspaper)."

----------------------------------------------------------------

Translation (C) 2003 Scott Corrales (IHU)
Special thanks to Proyecto CATENT.










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                    Re: CI: Hexagon in Cydonia? - Tonnies

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 10:58:45 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:38:19 -0400
Subject: Re: CI: Hexagon in Cydonia? - Tonnies


 >From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 10:13:33 -0400
 >Subject: Re: CI: Hexagon in Cydonia?

 >>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
 >>To: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
 >>Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 20:44:50 -0700 (PDT)
 >>Subject: CI: Hexagon in Cydonia?

 >>Hexagon in Cydonia?
 >>by Mac Tonnies

 >>See: http://www.mactonnies.com/cydonia.html (Page
 >37)

<snip>

 >Hexagonal and quasi-hexagonal craters are by no means rare in
 >the solar system, including on earth, on our moon, and a bunch
 >of other places. They seem to form as some kind of impact
 >excavation and ejection phenomenon as yet not (to my knowledge)
 >analyzed, but because of their abundance, they seem to be purely
 >impact-substrate related and definitely not a product of
 >'intelligent' construction.

You're very right, and as far as hexagonal craters go, the one
near the Face isn't an especially striking example. I included
it because I think the Cydonia region deserves a close study.

My experience with studying craters comes from peering at Malin
Space Science Systems' online Mars catalogue. I've noticed a
variety of geometric forms, a few of which are in my "gray
basket" as possible engineering works. But as you relate, most
appear decidedly natural.



=====
 >Mac Tonnies
macbot@yahoo.com

Explore MTVI @ http://www.mactonnies.com

Posthuman Blues: http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com (updated daily)





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                 Re: UFO Buzzes Chilean Pickup Truck - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 18:22:54 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:39:54 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Buzzes Chilean Pickup Truck - Hall


 >From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 10:45:22 -0400
 >Subject: UFO Buzzes Chilean Pickup Truck

 >SOURCE: Terra.cl
 >DATE: April 22, 2003

 >UFO HEADS FOR PICKUP TRUCK

 >** Roberto Caceres, 36, lived through a terrifying experience
 >last February in Chile's 9th Region**

 >SANTIAGO, April 17 -- Electrical engineer Roberto Caceres
 >experienced a terrifying ordeal last summer as he drove his
 >pickup truck from Temuco to Freire in Chile's 9th Region. For 15
 >minutes he was followed by a light that caused him to lose
 >control of his vehicle momentarily.

 >Caceres, 36, is married and once a year heads to the country's
 >southern reaches to make contacts for his electrical appliances
 >stor. Last February, he was driving his LUV pickup from Temuco
 >to the small town of Freire.

 >- So what happened during the trip?

 >- I was driving along very calmly. Some 15 minutes from Temuco,
 >I saw a strange white light on my right that was matching my
 >speed. I thought it was the train, but it wasn't.

 >- And what was it?

 >- That's what I'm still wondering. Worst of all is that in a
 >matter of seconds that light crossed right in front of my pickup
 >truck. The UFO headed for my truck. I swerved to avoid it
 >several times. It nearly hit me.

 >- What shape did the light have?

 >- It must have been the shape of a football. But I don't think
 >it had a defined body - it was pure light.

 >- Did it make any noise?

 >- No, at least not that I could hear. But it moved at incredible
 >speeds.

 >- Were you afraid?

 >- Of course, the thing was coming for me and I knew it wasn't
 >anything known. Besides, it was very dark outside.

 >- And no one else witnessed the light?

 >- I think several other cars behind me must have seen it. I
 >didn't have any time to ask. The time was around 22:00 hours.

 >- Were any prints left behind on the pickup truck?

 >- No. The first thing I did the next morning was check to see if
 >it had any prints or marks, but there were none. At times I
 >thought that the light had touched the truck..

 >- Were there any electrical aberrations or engine problems when
 >the alleged UFO appeared?

 >- No, everything worked normally. The lights were on and the
 >engine was running.

 >- After that, did the trip continue without incident?

 >- It was normal in quotation marks, because I kept thinking
 >about that UFO I'd seen. The rest of the trip was otherwise
 >normal

 >- Did you believe in UFOs prior to the experience?

 >- Yes. I always liked the subject. But from February until now
 >I've become even more curious about the subject. I think we
 >cannot be alone in this immense universe.

 >Translation (C) 2003 Scott Corrales IHU
 >Special thanks to Christian Riffo and Guillermo Gimenez

Scott,

Thanks for translating this case. Can you tell me what the
source "Terra.cl" means? Who asked the questions (pretty good
ones)? Any background information would be helpful.

I am compiling a report on 2000-2003 UFO sightings that display
typical UFO patterns as in the past, and am particularly
interested in learning of any South American, European, Asian,
Middle Eastern cases that haven't made their way into the
English-language literature.


  - Dick Hall







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Apr > Apr 23

                          Filer's Files #17 -- 2003

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 17:47:21 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 18:48:09 -0400
Subject: Filer's Files #17 -- 2003


Filer's Files #17 -- 2003 Skywatch Investigations.
George A. Filer, Director Mutual UFO Network Eastern
April 23, 2003,  Majorstar@aol.com
Webmaster: Chuck Warren
My website is at: http://www.georgefiler.com
Sponsored by: http://www.filer.unfranchise.com

WORLDWIDE UFO SIGHTINGS CONTINUE BUT SLOW IN US

The purpose of these files is to report the UFO eyewitness and
photo/video evidence that occurs on a daily basis around the
world and in space. Europa is covered with a layer of water,
Maryland - incredible sighting, North Carolina - egg video,
Maryland - blinking lights, Georgia Synchronicity, Florida -
chevron shaped lights slowly moving north, Ohio - flying
triangle report, Michigan - possible UFO Landing, UFO Wisconsin
reports low flashing lights, California - boomerang, Washington
- photos continue, /Canadian - UFO sightings increase, France
UFO near tankers, , and unconfirmed reports from Russia indicate
a UFO crashed into Kalingrad Harbor.

JUPITER'S EUROPA IS COVERED WITH A LAYER OF WATER

What we find in these pictures," says Michael Carr of the US
Geological Survey in Menlo Park, California "is pretty good
evidence there is water at fairly shallow depths on Europa."
 From various observations, both from Earth and passing
spacecraft, scientists have concluded that Europa is covered
with a layer of water probably 50 to 100 miles thick,
surrounding a rocky core. The surface is undeniably solid ice,
though fractured and blistered into a ball-of-string appearance.
The question: is there, bene/ath the ice, any liquid water? The
friction caused by the gravitational pull of Jupiter, as well
its sibling moons of Io and Ganymede, might be enough to heat
Europa's inside.

Another tantalizing observation: Europa's surface, unlike the
other moons of Jupiter, is relatively clean of craters. Perhaps
eruptions of water from below had filled them in. Carr's group
examined in detail one particular slice of Europa's surface.
Galileo's images, some 40 times more detailed than the Voyager
spacecraft had taken 17 years earlier, allowed the researchers
to piece together the fractured patterns almost like a jigsaw
puzzle, seeing how the pieces used to fit together. "These icy
crusts have broken apart into rafts that have moved, rotated and
tilted," Carr says. "Everywhere we look, we're finding evidence
for this kind of breakup. This is a pretty good indication there
is a mobile layer down there."

FIVE MILE WIDE DOMES OF ICE - Another group, headed by Robert
Pappalardo and James Head of Brown University in Providence, RI,
assert in a separate article in Nature that while there may once
have been water below, it has now frozen. As evidence, they
point to dome-like structures, some 5 miles wide, that dot the
surface of Europa. These domes, they say, are much younger than
the cracks and fissures. "We see evidence," Head says, "that
Europa has undergone a change in its tectonic evolution." In
this p/icture, beneath the icy crust is yet more ice, but warmer
and able to stretch, twist, and flow much as glaciers do on
Earth. The warmer ice (still heated by tidal friction) would
expand and push upwards towards to the surface. "Rising like a
lava lamp, essentially," Head says.

Paul Geissler, a senior research associate at University of
Arizona's Lunar and Planetary Laboratory, and his colleagues
find indirect evidence that the outer crust is rotating slightly
faster than the rocky interior. Other measurements of Europa's
gravity hint that the rotation of the rocky interior is
precisely locked into the 3=BD-day orbit. A completely solid
Europa would rotate as one piece. For the icy crust to slide
over the inner core requires the equivalent of planetary motor
oil in between. "It doesn't actually prove there is an ocean on
Europa," Geissler says, "but it is consistent with that." But,
he adds, it's also consistent with the ice-flow model of Head
and Pappalardo.

Search for Life - If the answer is indeed liquid water, then
there may be life in the ocean. Europa is much too far away for
sunlight to warm it. But it is conceivable that the tides could
rub the rocks hot enough to give rise to underwater volcanoes.
And that environment would resemble the volcanic rifts that lie
at the bottom of the Earth's ocean, an environment now known to
teem with exotic organisms. That's the big question," Sqyres
says. "We don't know the answer to that. The answer is 'maybe.'"
Thanks to Kenn/eth Chang ABCNEWS.com

MARYLAND - INCREDIBLE SIGHTING:

BALTIMORE -- Bill Bean writes, "I had an incredible sighting on
April 22, 2003, at 3:45 PM, as I was turning onto Quarterfield
Road in Severn about a mile and a half from BWI Airport. He
says, "As I waited for traffic to clear so I could turn, I
noticed a Southwest Airlines Plane rising in altitude from take
off, and I was stunned to see a silver object about one third of
the size of the plane, traveling directly under the wing
section." This object was very close to the underside of the
plane and seemed to be perfectly moving with the plane. I
grabbed my camera and got two shots. [I will post the photos on
my site, and send you some copies, when I get them processed].
www.ufoman104.com Thanks to Bill Bean

NORTH CAROLINA EGG VIDEO

CHARLOTTE -- The home of the witness is located about one mile
(*) northwest of Charlotte Douglas airport. He states, "While
sitting on my back porch at 3 PM, watching clouds and airport
traffic on April 11, 2003, I noticed an egg/orb heading north to
south very slowly at about 10,000 feet. At one point it seemed
to briefly pause and continue. It was shiny and hard to see
without my polarized glasses. I happened to have my camcorder
with me and I got a little footage of it but I couldn't see it
in the/ viewfinder, only on playback could I see it and the few
seconds was poor but there. The clouds at that time were moving
west to east. I'll keep watching. Thanks to Peter Davenport [
http://www.nuforc.org/ ]www.UFOCENTER.com

GEORGIA SYNCHRONICITY

Tom Sheets, State Director of MUFONGA writes, "Synchronicity is
more important in our lives than most folks realize. It has
entered my life at different points and amazed me with the
results. I have an associate that has experienced similar mind
boggling events that tend to remind one of the "Twilight Zone."
Jung devoted much of his research to this phenomenon, and even
published a ground breaking study on synchronicity. Anyhow,
enough of that...now to the point.

There are many reports of credible UFO investigators and
researchers that have experienced apparently anomalous incidents
while in the pursuit of their work. Examples would be the many
national conferences during which unknown objects have appeared
to the attendees individually or before a group of them, this
has happened on MORE than one occasion OR I would simply write
it off as being a minor coincidence, mistaken aircraft etc. This
has been described as occurring during lunch breaks, enroute to
variou/s places after the day's activities cease, or during the
morning commute, etc., also in relation to the routine
investigation of other cases in the field. MUFONGA's Olivia
Newton and some of her FPR investigators had their encounter in
the rural counties east of Atlanta a couple of years ago
("String of Pearls" event); yours truly experienced the dramatic
aerial display in 1997 in Jeff Davis County when enroute to
interview the local police officers about multiple UFOs they had
been encountering on night /patrol.

While returning from Clarkesville on Saturday night, this writer
had a minor experience that MIGHT have been meteor related, but
it DID NOT look like a meteor. Like most in our group that have
attended the several recent Leonids Skywatches, this writer has
seen thousands of meteors, in their every type and style,
combine that with an active interest in astronomy going back to
the school years. At 10:33 PM, I was southbound on I-285
approaching its intersection with I-20 on the west side of
Atlanta. Spee/d about 60 mph, vehicle a Jeep Wrangler with a
substantial rectangular windshield, the sky was clear. Suddenly
a small round orb-like glowing light, about the size of a BB
held at arm's length, entered my field of vision from the upper
left area of the windshield, traveling at a slight angle
downward to the right (actually more parallel than downward).
This light was definitely smoothly ROUND with a moderate white
glow. It was visible for about 2-3 seconds, possibly going
behind some trees or terrain. /It covered about 40 degrees of
arc in the 2-3 seconds of being visible. There was NO apparent
trail or streak common to most meteors. It did NOT appear to be
burning out, the intensity appeared to be constant during the
short period of observation, color was a moderate glowing white,
which gave me an impression that it might appear to be even a
glowing pale blue if larger or closer.

Some meteors only streak, with no specific identifiable head
that is visible since most are the size of a grain of sand, this
thing had a definite ROUND structure, even though tiny like a BB
at arm's length. The only thing this object had in common with a
meteor is that it too came down out of the sky and was hauling
butt! The objective is this, any other MUFONGA personnel that
have experienced unusual or interesting episodes that MIGHT be
related to our travels/activities in this business, PLEASE let
me/ know. Just send an email. That old cosmic trickster is
always at work! Seriously, if what the enlightened researchers
say is true, that this "intelligent force" does exist, and can
intrude on our reality at the most unusual times, then we should
look more closely at events considered to be synchronistic. Best
and Semper Fi! Tom Sheets, SD MUFONGA

FLORIDA - CHEVRON SHAPED LIGHTS MOVING SLOWLY

PENSACOLA -- The witness was out in his porch finishing a
cigarette on April 10, 2003, and watching the low lying moving
clouds when I noticed a triangle pattern of dull white lights
moving south to north at 11:15 PM. There were approximately 9
total lights in a triangular formation or "V" shape with another
semi triangular row behind the front row of lights. The second
row of lights appeared to move about slightly but stayed in a
general formation with the front row. The lights moved overhead
just abov/e the lower lying thin layer of clouds with no sound
whatsoever. I looked for light tracer beams from below to see if
it was possible beams of light from the ground but there was no
trace. These lights appeared to be relatively low and just above
the lowest strata of cold-front clouds in the night sky and
moving in the opposite direction of the clouds. Thanks to Peter
Davenport [ http://www.nuforc.org/ ]www.UFOCENTER.com

OHIO - PILOT REPORTS TRIANGULAR LIGHTS IN OHIO

Frank Reams writes: "I am a UFO Investigator and State Section
Director for Ohio. I recently sent in an investigation report to
MUFON about a case I had just east of Columbus, Ohio on March 7,
2003. This was a slow moving silent flying triangle with bright
lights at the corners. It was only 300 feet above the witness at
about 2:30 AM. The case you have in your Filer's Files in the
April edition of the MUFON UFO Journal by a pilot at 0515 on
March 7, 2003, is very likely the same object reported by my
w/itness less than three hours earlier. I was unable to find any
other witnesses on the ground, but this is too big a coincidence
not to be the same object. Please let me know if you can give me
that information. Also, if you would like a copy of my report
from that night, I would be glad to send you a copy. Thanks to
Frank Reams freams@mail.com

UFO WISCONSIN REPORTS - LOW FLASHING LIGHTS

WISCONSIN RAPIDS -- Kelly reports, "As I was driving home from
work at about 10:30 at night on April 9, 2003, I saw through the
trees a bright light flashing." There were two of them flashing,
one low and then one up and to the right. They would flash
alternately. I drove a little bit further to where the trees
were lower and I could get a better view. There were about 5
pairs of these lights flashing all over the southern sky. I
looked around and to the northeast I saw two orange lights. From
my van/tage point they looked about a foot apart. They didn't
move, and they just faded away, one after the other. When I got
there, there were no more flashes. It was kind of freaky. They
were really bright, kind of like strobe lights, but not
blinding, or as fast as strobes.

WISCONSIN RAPIDS -- On Thursday night April 9, 2003, Bobbi B.
says, "A little after 11:00 PM, I took my dog outside and looked
up into the southeast sky and noticed two bright lights moving
steadily, one going north and one going to the south." I thought
at first they were planes, but then they started flashing. At
first, the flashing was bright white but then they started
flashing blue, green, and red. The light on the left then
swooped down and up very quickly. It  (*) looked like a bug
swirling in/ the air, that's how quick it was. Then I saw the
light on the right come to a stop. The flashing stopped and then
it was just one big bright light again. It then started moving
STRAIGHT down. Very slowly. That's when my heart started
pounding and I thought, "What does that?" While I was watching
these two lights, I noticed smaller white lights circling around
them quickly. I got my boyfriend to come and see and we saw them
move fast past the front of our house and out of sight. He
reminded me then/ while he was looking up in the sky about what
he told me he'd seen about 6 months ago. When he was on his way
home from Wausau, he saw a large comet-looking thing heading
straight for the ground. He said it was very large and bright
green. Scary! Thanks to Wisconsin UFO sightings: [
http://www.ufowisconsin.com/ ]http://www.ufowisconsin.com/

MICHIGAN - POSSIBLE UFO LANDING

Vicky Weagle, reports, "Last night, April 22, 2003, I was told
about a sighting where a UFO was landing in the field near a
witnesses house in Michigan. He saw a green flashing light move
closer to his position and apparently land. He ran to the top of
a nearby hill and down below there was a flashing green beam,
from some type of object and apparent footprints heading towards
his home. He asked me what he should do? I told him it was
important to secure the site, pending investigation, and warned
him /about the possibility of radiation. He seemed scared and I
felt he should be contacted by a field investigator. I was
shocked to find out that there is no state contact information
on the website anymore. Thanks to: Vicky Weagle

Editor's Note: If this is a verifiable real case, it may be
significant.

CALIFORNIA - BOOMERANG

FRESNO -- Two witnesses saw a boomerang with lights floating
across the night sky on April 5, 2003, at about 7 PM. The
observers said, "It was like a boomerang shape but changed
fluidly and had lights that dimly flashed in succession to one
another." It moved slowly across the crystal clear night sky
without making a sound even though I was close enough to hear
any aircraft engine. It flew south quickly and disappeared. I
know we have nothing human made that can move and hover like it
did. Thanks to Pe/ter Davenport [ http://www.nuforc.org/
]www.UFOCENTER.com

WASHINGTON - PHOTOS CONTINUE

SPOKANE -- For over a year an important judge who lives high on
a mountain overlooking the city reports seeing and photographing
strange lights. Jeff Sainio, photo analyst for MUFON, indicates
preliminary analysis of these photos show flight patterns and
lighting changes not usually present with traditional or known
aircraft. The judge states, "I can tell you that in forty some
years of watching the night skies and aircraft, I have never
before seen what I have been observing since February. I do not
p/resume to know what these lights and craft are, or where they
come from. They may very well be of terrestrial origin, but then
again, they may not. I have been in contact with a number of
organizations in an attempt to get someone with credentials and
expertise to investigate this ongoing flap. See [
http://www.nationalufocenter.com/files/2002/index.php ]Filer's
Files UFO Center Views

COEUR D' ALENE LAKE -- On March 10, 2003, an unusual amount of
activity was noted on the west end the Coeur D' Alene Lake. Many
sightings have been reported in the area over the years. Loud,
rumbling, deep low motor noise but like something being dragged
but not screeching, anyway. As it grew louder, and I felt my
house humming with vibration, I found myself with a smile on my
face and a feeling of comfort, as I said to myself ,"Oh, it's
just them."

CANADIAN SIGHTINGS CONTINUE

HALIFAX NS -- My name is Sydnie Douglass and I am 12 years old.
On Easter April 20, 2003, a group of my friend's and I went to
fly kites and at a big field called "the pit". When we got there
we saw a funny looking object in the sky. When we got home we
went to your web site and found something that we thought
sounded like what we saw. It had a triangular body, with a fat
short rod coming from the nose. When it flew over us, at about
20, 000 feet altitude, it didn't make a noise. It was painted
blac/k (or a very dark color). By the way it happened around
7:30 PM.- Thanks to Sydnie Douglass syddouglas0@hotmail.com,

LONDON BLUE SPHERE CRASHES TOWARDS THE EARTH

CORRECTION -- The "London" sighting referred to in Filer's Files
last week was in Ontario Canada, not England. There's definitely
no Highway 401 in the UK Highway 401 is the main superhighway
running the length of Ontario, right past London.

LONDON, CANADA -- Driving eastbound at 8 PM, on the 401 towards
London on April 4, 2003, the witness saw a blue sphere appear in
the sky, that accelerated towards the ground behind the
treeline. There was a visible blue streak which trailed the
sphere that appeared to crash. Following this, the area of the
sky where the object 'crashed' was illuminated in a blue light
for several seconds. It could very well have been some type of
meteor, but the fact that there was this blue light associated
with the ob/ject and the illumination of the sky made the event
quite strange. This event occurred during a barrage of freezing
rain, which hampered visibility. I seem to only remember two or
three other cars on the road at the time. Thanks to Peter
Davenport: [ http://www.ufocenter.com/
]http://www.ufocenter.com/

HOUSTON -- A fellow stopped me while I was heading out the door
of our local grocery store.  He told me, theat he and three
others, who were witnesses, to a sighting on April 11, 2003, at
8:00 p.m. in the Houston Estates. Looking south towards the
Morice River, they noticed the strangest set of lights at very
low altitude, above the Morice Valley Road. I was told the only
thing which could be seen on it were the three colored lights.
The witness said it was as if the object was rotating, as the
lights/ kept changing position. The color of the lights were,
yellow, blue and red. The strange thing about this sighting is
that was that it flew like it was making a simple sketch of a
Christmas tree.  So starting from the top of a tree, it zipped
down and out to it's left, then moved quickly straight back in
towards the trunk of the tree. Then it dropped a bit, moved
extremely fast, and came to a complete stop. Then once again it
continued to move at high speed making the same maneuvers over
and over again, like it was drawing a tree in the sky. The
object was about two miles away. Binoculars were brought out but
no shape or body to the object was observed. The object/lights
vanished instantly af/ter ten minutes.

TERRACE -- A gentleman called to report a sighting on April 11,
2003. He put his girlfriend on the telephone and she explained,
"She and her boyfriend were burning off the grass from around
their garden, when she looked up and noticed two very bright
lights. One of the lights was heading to the northeast towards
Kitwanga and the other flew in the opposite direction. The
"lights" were at a very high level and lasted for only a second
or two. The color of the lights was silver/white.

WILLISTON LAKE, MCKENZIE, BC -- Brian Vike HBCC reports, "A
single witness, a logging truck operator, was coming back from
picking up a load of logs on March 19, 2003, when he saw a
bright flash of white light directly in front of him at a fairly
high altitude heading northwest. He thought he had seen a meteor
but before the light disappeared it changed direction. After
this change in its flight path, it just vanished. The sighting
lasted 3 to 4 seconds. It was the size of a pea at arm's length.
No sound was heard.

TERRACE, BC -- At 10:55 PM, two witnesses, just about a 1/2
kilometer west of Terrace watched an extremely large object fly
very low in overcast skies over the Skeena River on April 3,
2003. They reported seeing a huge dark colored object in the
shape of a flying cross. The witness says the body of the object
was certainly longer than the wing span. It moved very slowly
without sound. The bottom of the object had six panels of
colored lights. They were unable to see the height or the
thickness of the fuselage. It was just too dark, and with the
colored lights being so bright on the bottom of it, it obscured
the view. This sighting lasted almost ten seconds before they
lost sight of it due to the tree line blocking their view. The
object was the size of a 737 jet airliner, but it had no
flashing lights. Brian Vike says in 2002, "I received a very
similar sighting report.

HOUSTON, BC -- Brian Vike reports, "A witness called to say
while driving home from Perow, BC to Houston at about 11:20
PM,on April 14, 2003, she and a friend saw a single red light
flying very low and rather quickly west." She told me that the
red light was flying just over the top of China Nose Mountain.
As she watch it almost reach China Nose Mountain it rose up
rather quickly to get over the peak and continued on at the same
altitude until she lost sight of it. This sighting lasted 5 to 6
seconds.

(HBCC UFO Note: If a small personal aircraft flew that low among
the mountains it would have been very dangerous. Thanks to Brian
Vike HBCC UFO Research, Editor: Canadian Communicator
(Paranormal Magazine) hbccufo@telus.net, Paranormal Magazine
Canadian UFO Hotline: 1-866-262-1989, [
http://www.geocities.com/hbccufo/home.html ]Canadian
Communicator http://www.geocities.com/hbccufo

FRANCE UFO NEAR TANKERS

MARSEILLES -- Paul Harman's writes from the Netherlands, "In
1974, I was a seaman aboard the 70,000 ton oil tanker "Diloma"
owned by Shell-tankers. We were dry-docking in Marseilles,
France. About October 17, 1974, eight crew members were on the
aft deck waiting for water to fill the dry-dock. It was about
1:30 PM with a clear blue sky and a bright light was hovering
above the city. It was flying at 150 meters in altitude and one
or two kilometers from the dry-dock. The light was as bright as
a star and /had a diameter 1/4 of the full moon. We didn't hear
any sound coming from that strange light so it was unlikely to
be a helicopter that can easily be heard at that distance. Our
nautical officer was quite sure this light was neither a star
nor a planet. After thirty minutes the light was still in the
same position and we saw a smaller light that moved slowly out
of the city towards the big light. On approaching the big light
the small light reduced speed and very slowly it entered into
the big light. W/e were all stunned. Five minutes later, the
light flew at incredible speed straight up and disappeared in
space. I was a 17-year-old boy and I knew nothing about UFO's.
After my sighting I started reading a lot about UFO's and I
became a real and strong believer. I saw so I believe! Read more
about my sighting and UFO's on http://www.ufowijzer.nl Thanks to
Paul Harmans the Netherlands

UFO CRASHES IN RUSSIAN HARBOR NEAR BALTIC FLEET

KLININGRAD, RUSSIA -- Skywatch International Inc. reports that
James L. Choron provided information regarding a crash of an
unknown craft on Friday, April 18, 2003. The entire Russian
Baltic Fleet and a large number or residents of Kaliningrad
(formerly Koenigsburg), a city of over 3 million inhabitants, in
the Russian Baltic enclave on the Baltic Sea, watched in awe as
a "flying wing" shaped UFO winged over rapidly and plunged into
Kaliningrad Harbor at 6:17 PM, local time. The event was caught
on videot/ape by a local RTR Russian State Television news crew,
which was present on the massive naval base, filming a
documentary segment on the fleet for airing on Russian
television. The UFO, described as a "Flying Wing," with two
elongated, dome like protrusions on top, and three similar
structures, underneath, was over flying the Baltic Fleet.
According to a Russian Naval Commander, the craft was apparently
caught, accidentally, with in the sweep patterns of ship mounted
search radar's, which came on to trac/k it's progress, causing
some sort of malfunction which resulted in the crash. "It was
traveling at a tremendous rate of speed" he said to RTR
reporters, on the scene. "It was very low, not more than 1,500
meters (5,000 feet) altitude, when our radar's came on. It
simply winged over, and dove into the water, as if it has lost
either power, or control." The light gray colored craft, with no
apparent "seams" or rivet patterns visible, was estimated by
onlookers to be the size of a small airliner, and tra/veling at
speeds in excess of Mach 2 (twice the speed of sound), was
absolutely quiet as it passed, but made a "tremendous noise" as
it plunged into the water, causing a geyser of steam and water,
mixed with small debris, which shot an estimated 500 meters
(1500 feet) into the air.

A civilian onlooker, said, "That whoever was in control of the
craft made a deliberate effort to take it away from the naval
ships and the shoreline before it went into the harbor." One
Sovremini Class Destroyer was lightly damaged by flying debris,
but, so far, no casualties have been reported. Radiation levels
at the site, are high, but the source of the radiation, as well
as it's nature, have yet to be determined. Russian authorities,
from the Ministry of Health, are quick to point out that the
radiat/ion levels are not dangerous, simply "higher than
normal." So far, debris recovered have been small, averaging
less than a meter (just over three feet) in diameter, at the
largest. Most debris recovered, to date, have been what appear
to be "skin material" of an unknown alloy, and interior bracing
and piping, composed of a very high grade and extremely pure
aluminum. All metal debris have been dispatched to various
institutes and universities for analysis, including the
prestigious Bauman Institute of Eng/ineering, in Moscow, and the
Moscow State University School of Metallurgy. It is considered
highly doubtful that any significant remains of crew, if, in
fact, the vehicle was piloted, will be recovered. "This looks
like your basic 'hair, teeth and eyeballs' situation, one
Russian Navy diver said, somewhat grimly. It is interesting to
note that, in spite of the high speed at which the craft was
traveling, and it's extremely low altitude, there was no
characteristic "sonic boom" associated with it's approa/ch, and
no noticeable vibration on the ground. This has led many
observers, especially those associated with the Russian military
establishment to speculate that the propulsion system of the
craft was based on some sort of "antigravity" device. "Whatever
it was," said one Russian Naval Captain, "it was certainly not
one of our craft, and I am also not aware of anything of this
sort being present in the West." The immediate area of the crash
will be dredged, starting in the next several days.

The entire episode is noteworthy in that it was not only
captured on videotape by an RTR news crew, but was instantly
aired, not only on RTR, but on all major Russian Network
television, via a live feed from the RTR crew, in Kaliningrad.
Updates have followed on each regular news broadcast, since the
initial downing. Russian Government officials are quick to point
out that the downing was, in fact, accidental, and not a "shoot
down."

Divers, however, report that the water in the vicinity of the
crash is, in fact, noticeably, several degrees warmer than
normal. The water surrounding the crash site is, understandably,
reported to be "murky" with extremely poor visibility. This
leads many of the divers and supervisory personnel to speculate
that at least one relatively large fragment might exist.
Wintersteel enjoys a very good relationship with the Russian
Navy, as well as with the mainstream Russian media, and will be
posting photograph/s of the site, and debris recovered, as soon
as they become available. Thanks to Skywatch International and
James Chorton, Wintersteel,
http://wintersteel.homestead.com/UFO_Crash_Ru.html.

Editor's Note: It seems a crash of this magnitude would be
reported world wide. It seems that if we wanted to obtain
intelligence on the Russian fleet, satellites would have been
used rather than a low flying craft. The Russians and the US are
thought to own craft of this description.


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MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative
reports subscribe to the MUFON JOURNAL that costs only $35 per
year by contacting MUFONHQ@aol.com. or soon to be HQ@mufon.com..
Mention that I recommended you for membership. Filer's Files is
copyrighted 2002 by George A. Filer, all rights reserved.
Readers may post the complete files on their Web Sites if they
credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date
of issue that the item appeared. These reports and comments are
not necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON viewpoint. Send your letters
to Majorstar@aol.com. Sending mail automatically grants
permission for us to publish and use your name. Please state if
you wish to keep your name, address, or story confidential.
CAUTION, MOST OF THESE ARE INITIAL REPORTS AND REQUIRE FURTHER
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   Apr > Apr 23

                         Abduction Of Misty Jackson

From: Michael Harman <rocketman5047@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 11:29:18 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 23:10:54 -0400
Subject: Abduction Of Misty Jackson


Read about the Abduction of Misty Jackson at UFO-PI:

www.ufopi.freehomepage.com

Drop down the page a bit and locate "BREAKING NEWS".

I'm looking for any comments you guys might have about her case.
If anyone has read Budd Hopkins book "Witnessed" "The True Story
of the Brooklyn Bridge Abductions" You might notice her account
seems to lend support to the "Baby Ann" Theory of this book. Let
me know if you came to the same conclusions as I did.

rocketman5047@yahoo.com or rocketman5047@hotmail.com


Mike Harman UFO-PI
www.ufopi.freehomepage.com







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                            Supernatural Enemies

From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 00:22:28 +0200
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 23:14:55 -0400
Subject: Supernatural Enemies


Hello Listerions,

I was reading a review of a particular book and it had a link to
the book's publisher, Carolina Academic Press. After reading the
promotion for the book I was interested in I decided to see what
other titles they publish. Within the anthropology titles I came
across the book "Supernatural Enemies". It was a surprise and I
have not read it but I wonder if it may be of use to those who
are studying abductions.

Josh

Click on this list and take a look:

http://www.cap-press.com/bookinfo.php3?id=1029

Carolina Academic Press - Book Page


All Titles ISBN Authors Book Descriptions Tables of Contents
Tables of Cases

Supernatural Enemies

Hilda Ellis Davidson and Anna Chaudhri

In view of the present fascination with the supernatural and
with visitors from outer space, Supernatural Enemies offers a
timely, wide-ranging study of supernatural enemies in artistic,
literary and popular traditions. Its coverage ranges from
beliefs of the Ancient World and the lore of the Middle Ages in
Europe to modern traditions about killer clowns among Scottish
children, sightings of the Black Dog in East Anglia, and beliefs
in supernatural abduction. Supernatural Enemies contains
sections on Gods, Demons and Ogres, Animals and Monsters,
Witches and Deceivers, and Pursuers and Abductors.

Davidson and Chaudhri do not seek to provide an exhaustive
analysis or history of supernatural enemies in different
societies and traditions. Supernatural Enemies presents, for the
first time, a variety of approaches to the subject and gives
access to some very rare material drawn from ancient iconography
and from texts and literature in languages inaccessible to many
readers. Archive materials,other records, and contemporary field
work are also utilized. From this wealth of sources, the reader
obtains vivid portraits of the hostile fores which have so
inspired the imagination throughout the ages.

The individual studies are scholarly and well-referenced,
contributed by writers from a number of different disciplines:
literature, mythology, the history of art, archaeology,
psychology, and folklore. Such a multi-disciplined approach is
an effective way to treat this rich subject which has never
failed to arouse the imagination in past centuries and is still
fascinating today.

October 2001,

288 pp,

ISBN 0-89089-711-5

cloth

$40.00

View Table of Contents and Introductory Material








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   Apr > Apr 23

                              Greek Ufologists?

From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 21:42:13 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 23:18:01 -0400
Subject: Greek Ufologists?


Does anyone have e-mail addresses for Greek researchers?






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                          Russian UFO Crash Photo?

From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 01:58:49 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 23:23:02 -0400
Subject: Russian UFO Crash Photo?


Look the first photo taked in 1940. Is it a UFO or a Foo
Fighter?


http://atomickiev.com/galaxy_explorer/russianUFO.htm






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                    Re: Russian UFO Crash Photo? - McCoy

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@charter.net>
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 21:04:23 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 07:41:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Russian UFO Crash Photo? - McCoy


 >From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 01:58:49 -0300
 >Subject: Russian UFO Crash Photo?

 >Look the first photo taked in 1940. Is it a UFO or a Foo
 >Fighter?

 >http://atomickiev.com/galaxy_explorer/russianUFO.htm


Hello, all.

The first photo could not have been taken in 1940. The
Tank in the picture is a late model T-34, darn good tank,
but not of the 1940 vintage, the manhole cover, or voga
hubcap is suspect too.

My late father in law, had seen a T-34 in action in the Balkans.
He was glad he didn't have to fight it with the Sherman. This was
in late 1944.







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                   Re: Russian UFO Crash Photo? - Gutierez

From: Gregory Gutierez <greguti@free.fr>
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 09:20:27 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 09:32:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Russian UFO Crash Photo? - Gutierez


 >From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 01:58:49 -0300
 >Subject: Russian UFO Crash Photo?

 >Look the first photo taked in 1940. Is it a UFO or a Foo
 >Fighter?

 >http://atomickiev.com/galaxy_explorer/russianUFO.htm

Hi all, hi Eustaquio,

I don't know about the first photo, but I can tell you the 2
photographs with the caption "Another UFO crash in Russia, but
in 1967", are taken from a document made by the French
documentary maker Jean-Teddy Philippe few years ago, and
released on the French TV Arte (our cultural tv).

It was supposed to be the demonstration that anybody could make
a film like the famous Roswell autopsy film, and it was shown
during a TV show about extraterrestrial life (mainly about the
SETI program). The guests were Pierre Lagrange (French
sociologist), Jean-Jacques Velasco (I guess you know him!),
Henri Broch (French mediasceptic), etc.

The 2 photographs on this website are from the beginning of this
hoax-movie. The main part is about pieces of alien corpses,
shoot on a table in a tent, in the middle of the forest, with
some unammed Russians around it.

Jean-Teddy Philippe is known in France for his wonderfull little
"Forbidden Documents", a bunch of so-called real amateur videos
about paranormal phenomenon: a baby with psychic powers, a
human-like alien filmed by the US secret service, in a house,
while Apollo is landing on the Moon, a mysterious sorcerer in a
desert, some strange diver able to stay below water for 30
min., cyborgmen in an old Russian military base forgotten by
their hierarchy, etc.

http://www.cri.ch/di/default.html


Regards,

Gregory
Paris, France
http://www.liste-aleph.org
Mailing list for fortean weirdos (in French)







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                   Re: Russian UFO Crash Photo? - Aldrich

From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 4:56:28 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 09:34:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Russian UFO Crash Photo? - Aldrich


 >From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 01:58:49 -0300
 >Subject: Russian UFO Crash Photo?

 >Look the first photo taked in 1940. Is it a UFO or a Foo
 >Fighter?

 >http://atomickiev.com/galaxy_explorer/russianUFO.htm


Do you have an uncropped photo? My first guess is that this is a
piece of Soviet military engineering equipment shown from an
unusual angle. In any case, the the quality of the photo is so
poor it proves nothing.

Did you know that Attila the Hun had a crashed saucer? From the
superior technology he was able to gleen from it, he beat the
Roman Empire! After that, he flew to South America in his balsa
wood and metal saucer with the tricycle landing gear and became
king of the Incas and later retired to a small estate on Planet
X.



Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
http://www.project1947.com/
P. O. Box 391
Canterbury, CT 06331
(860) 546-9135





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                    Statements Against UFOs By Scientists

From: Ken Kelly <elprospero@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 02:14:58 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:02:30 -0400
Subject: Statements Against UFOs By Scientists


To All:

Do you know of anyone who has collected statements by scientists
against the reality of UFOs? (Such as the usual bigotry of Carl
Sagan, Isaac Azimov, etc.)

I have collected about 200 quotations of this type, but it has
taken more than ten years to do so, and I would appreciate help
in finding more.

Any advice you may offer will be welcome.


Ken Kelly






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               Re: Court Ruling Keeps Documents Confidential -

From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 6:49:54 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:08:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Court Ruling Keeps Documents Confidential -


 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 12:40:27 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Court Ruling Keeps Documents Confidential

 >>From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 16:11:09 -0300
 >>Subject: Court Ruling Keeps Documents Confidential

 >>Source: The Washington Times

 >>http://washingtontimes.com/national/20030417-69509372.htm

 >>NEVADA-CARSON CITY - April 17, 2003 - A federal appeals court
 >>has refused to open confidential documents that might reveal if
 >>substances handled at the secret Air Force Base at Area 51 were
 >>hazardous.

 >>The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals this week upheld the
 >>decision of U.S. District Judge Philip Pro, who released
 >>transcripts of hearings but with classified information blacked
 >>out.

 >>Five workers and the widows of two former employees filed suit
 >>saying they were exposed to toxic fumes at the base.

 >These people lost family members while they were working in
 >service to their nation and now they are being left to dangle in
 >the wind by the very same government institutions that their
 >loved ones sacrificed their lives serving.

 >What an amazing reward for service above and beyond the
 >call of duty.

 >One of Bill Clinton's last presidential acts before leaving office
 >was to make sure that anything connected to Area 51 remained
 >sealed and out of public view. It was this very same lawsuit by
 >the families of the former employees of Area 51 that prompted
 >it.

<snip>

 >All this blasted secrecy is destroying us as a nation and as a
 >democracy. Between all the secrecy and the unbelievable amount
 >of media control, there is little difference between America
 >circa 2003 and the USSR/Pravda circa 1953.

<snip>

Hi John,

I agree this is a sordid little episode. The US government may
have good reason to keep certain things about the substances
used at Area 51 secret. At the very least the govt ought to
provide treatment and other help without admitting liability. I
don't expect that to happen.


Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
http://www.project1947.com/
P. O. Box 391
Canterbury, CT 06331
(860) 546-9135





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                   Re: Russian UFO Crash Photo? - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 09:41:46 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:14:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Russian UFO Crash Photo? - Stanford


 >From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 01:58:49 -0300
 >Subject: Russian UFO Crash Photo?

 >Look the first photo taked in 1940. Is it a UFO or a Foo
 >Fighter?

 >http://atomickiev.com/galaxy_explorer/russianUFO.htm

I would call it an outright fake photo. It seems to me that if
anything that interesting were nearby, the photographer would
have pretty well centered the crashed object in the field of
view, not off to one side.

There appear to be other problems with allegations that the
photo is genuine, but I don't have time for an in-depth treatise
just now.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery






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                 Re: Statements Against UFOs By Scientists -

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:51:37 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 16:11:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Statements Against UFOs By Scientists -


 >From: Ken Kelly <elprospero@yahoo.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 02:14:58 -0700 (PDT)
 >Subject: Statements Against UFOs By Scientists

 >To All:

 >Do you know of anyone who has collected statements by scientists
 >against the reality of UFOs? (Such as the usual bigotry of Carl
 >Sagan, Isaac Azimov, etc.)

I wish I had the reference handy, but the one by a scientist
suggesting that sightings of domed discs are confabulations (In
psychology, to confabulate means to fill in gaps in one's memory
with fabrications that one believes to be facts.) by persons who
were not breast fed takes the cake, or should I say 'cupcake'! :)

I have the paper where that is suggested around here somewhere,
and if I can find it, the reference will be posted.


Ray Stanford






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   Apr > Apr 24

                         Raelians On Cloning & UFOs

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:22:57 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:22:57 -0400
Subject: Raelians On Cloning & UFOs


Source: The Daily Cardinal - Wisconsin

http://www.dailycardinal.com/news/423634.html?mkey=323350

Raelians discuss cloning, human life

By Andrea Forgianni and Maeghan Killeen

Speaking to an audience of more than 300 at Memorial Union
Tuesday evening, representatives of the Raelian Movement and
Clonaid explained the science behind human cloning, the beliefs
of the Raelians and UFO evidence that supports the beliefs of
the Raelians and human cloning work done at Clonaid.

According to the Raelians, the Elohim, "the people who came from
the sky," created all life on earth and whose messengers include
the founders of some of the world's major religions. The founder
of the movement, Rael, claims to have spoken with the aliens in
1973 when they told him to spread their message and build an
embassy for their return.

"They created humans in their own image. They sent us messengers
to guide us through the ages," said Marc Letournau, a Raelian
representative.

Clonaid is the human cloning company that, on Dec. 27, 2002,
announced the birth of the first cloned baby. Thomas Kaenzig,
vice president of Clonaid, announced they have produced five
cloned children and 20 more are on the way. One of the cloned
children was created from bone marrow cells taken from a donor
that had died four months earlier, according to Kaenzig.

"Yes, we are playing God, us scientists on Earth," Kaenzig said.

The two groups claim to be separate entities, but have similar
interests. The Raelians believe eternal life can be achieved
through transferring memories and personality to a clone that
has undergone an accelerated growth process.

"It's going to happen much faster than people think," said
Kaenzig.

Once their memory transfer process is perfected, the Raelians
plan to establish life on another planet with humans in their
own image, according to Letournau.

"The human beings we create will think we're gods," Letournau
said.

Audience members showed a mixture of skepticism and interest in
what Kaenzig and Letournau had to say. A question-and-answer
session in which the Raelians' beliefs and Clonaid's practices
were challenged followed the presentation. Discussion continued
in small groups with the speakers after the question-and-answer
session.

Some UW-Madison students who donned aluminum foil hats remained
unconvinced.

"I think it's likely that there are extraterrestrials, I just
haven't seen any evidence," graduate student Luke Jasenosky
said. "I was coming here to see if they could have a sense of
humor about what they were doing. They both seemed like they
were just going through the motions."

Others expressed optimism, but remained skeptical of the
philosophies.

"It was like your basic 12-year-old mentality," said graduate
student David Peal. "Being scientists, we all have a spark in us
that wants to believe."







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   Apr > Apr 24

                    Captured Chilean Animal Is A 'Guina'

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 15:02:58 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 16:17:54 -0400
Subject: Captured Chilean Animal Is A 'Guina'



SOURCE: Diario Austral de Temuco
DATE: April 24, 2003

CHILE: Captured Animal is a "Guina"


Veterinarian Luis Hernan Briones Torres told this newspaper
through an e-mail that the animal captured in a rural sector of
Lautaro, and which has unchained a veritable psychosis is
nothing more than a Guina, and has nothing to do with the
"Chupacabras".

It is worth noting that the specimen was captured inside a
henhouse of the Pinchunlao reduction, some 19 km. from Lautaro
on the road to Galvarino, in Chile's 9th Region.

After learning that a "mysterious animal" had attacked a
henhouse in the commune of Lautaro, and which according to an
alleged specialist represented a genetc mutation of some sort
upon which DNA tests would be performed, the expert stated that
they can save their money: the animal in question is nothing
more than a Guina.

The specimen of Felis guigna - says the expert - better known as
Guina or Guina cat -- is an native species of the Chilean and
Argentine fauna, and of which two specimens were known to exist
in the Niri-Vilc=FAn National Park. Including one which was the
same color referred to in the newspaper. On the internet there
are several locations where information on this wild feline can
be found. It is defined as "an excellent hunter."

One of the websites states that the Guina's environment ranges
from Coquimbo to Chiloe and Isla Grande and Las Guaitecas. It is
found from sea level to the treeline, feeding on birds, small
mammals, rats and rabbits. At first blush it resembles a
housecat, but is smaller, more muscular, has rounded ears and
thick black fur.

"The peasantry's ingnorance about native fauna is truly
astonishing. I'm certain they know foxes and mountain lions. I
am also certain that no one with a fourth-grade education can
believe that there is such a thing as a "Chupacabras" in this
world, and I cannot believe that [experts share such a belief].
The news here was a important as saying that a fox ate a chicken
in a field."

For those interested in learning more about this feline, it
shall suffice to enter the name Felis guigna in a web browser to
find dozens of sites on the animal in question.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Translation (C) 2003. Scott Corrales IHU
Special thanks to Cristian Riffo, OVNIVISION





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              Re: Statements Against UFOs By Scientists - Clark

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 19:09:22 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 21:24:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Statements Against UFOs By Scientists - Clark


 >From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:51:37 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Statements Against UFOs By Scientists

 >>From: Ken Kelly <elprospero@yahoo.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 02:14:58 -0700 (PDT)
 >>Subject: Statements Against UFOs By Scientists

 >>Do you know of anyone who has collected statements by scientists
 >>against the reality of UFOs? (Such as the usual bigotry of Carl
 >>Sagan, Isaac Azimov, etc.)

 >I wish I had the reference handy, but the one by a scientist
 >suggesting that sightings of domed discs are confabulations (In
 >psychology, to confabulate means to fill in gaps in one's memory
 >with fabrications that one believes to be facts.) by persons who
 >were not breast fed takes the cake, or should I say 'cupcake'! :)

 >I have the paper where that is suggested around here somewhere,
 >and if I can find it, the reference will be posted.


Ray,

This, too, is one of my favorites moments of particularly loopy
pelicanist theory. Pelicanists can stand toe to toe with the
craziest UFO believers when the occasion calls for it.

The theorists in question were two Harvard psychiatrists, Lester
Grinspoon and Alan D. Persky, who spoke at the AAAS symposium on
UFOs in 1969. Their paper was later among those collected in
Sagan and Page's UFOs - A Scientific Debate (Cornell University
Press, 1972). Grinspoon and Persky claimed, apparently with
straight faces, that "repressed infantile sexual conflicts may
play a part in some UFO experiences," generating "sightings" of
breasts (discs) and penises (cigar-shaped objects).


Jerry Clark





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   Apr > Apr 25

                    Re: Russian UFO Crash Photo? - Rogers

From: Ian Rogers <onemoreshadow@rogers.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 19:51:33 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 20:02:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Russian UFO Crash Photo? - Rogers


 >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 15:54:16 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Russian UFO Crash Photo?

 >>From: Ian Rogers <onemoreshadow@rogers.com>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 00:38:58 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: Russian UFO Crash Photo?

 >>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
 >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 09:41:46 -0400
 >>>Subject: Re: Russian UFO Crash Photo?

 >>>>From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
 >>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>>Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 01:58:49 -0300
 >>>>Subject: Russian UFO Crash Photo?

 >>>>Look the first photo taked in 1940. Is it a UFO or a Foo
 >>>>Fighter?

 >>>>http://atomickiev.com/galaxy_explorer/russianUFO.htm

 >>>I would call it an outright fake photo. It seems to me that if
 >>>anything that interesting were nearby, the photographer would
 >>>have pretty well centered the crashed object in the field of
 >>>view, not off to one side.

 >>>There appear to be other problems with allegations that the
 >>>photo is genuine, but I don't have time for an in-depth treatise
 >>>just now.

 ><snip>

 >>Pictures, especially in this day and age,

 ><snip>

 >Oh puleeze! Because a picture can be faked does not mean that it
 >_is_ fake.

 >Each and every photo needs to be evaluated on its own merits.
 >These 'unqualified' catch-all phrases that some folks are fond
 >of tossing around only serve to minimize or be dismissive of
 >_evidence_ that deserves the attention of the scientific
 >community. Such statements really need to be _qualified_ when
 >they are made.

 >Not _all_ UFO photos are 'faked' by the photographer.

 >John Velez
[Ian said: ]

Not quite what I said, so I'll repeat myself.

I said: "It is, like pretty much every other photograph
purporting to show a crashed UFO, an out and out fake or a
misrepresentation of something "normal." It looks neat, but I'm
not impressed."

All I'm saying is that if all you have to convince me is a
photograph, it ain't gonna be enough. Not for me and not for any
rational person who doesn't give a hang about Ufology. Which is
why Ufology has such a problem with roping in the non-believers
in the first place: There just isn't enough evidence.

Yeah, we've got some pictures that could be something (anything,
really), some people who seem nice enough with some interesting
stories, but at the end of the day, John, we really don't have
anything that's going to turn anyone on their head. We don't
have a crashed disk, we don't have UFO debris (nothing that's
been proven to be debris for an alien craft, I should say), we
don't have dead aliens. We have some pictures, some videos, some
eyewitness testimony. Yeah, it's important to us, but it's not
enough for the layman. And that's not the layman's fault, though
some people in Ufology like to shake their fist and blame them
for their ignorance.

I have to take issue with your comment about the attention of
the scientific community. While I agree that UFO photos have to
be examined first before being dismissed, I have to wonder if
you really think one day that a photo is going to pop up and
some analyst is gonna perform a bunch of tests and say, "Ayuh,
that's an alien spaceship alright!" The smoking gun will almost
certainly not be a photograph. I think it will take more than a
photograph, no matter how good it is, to convince the world that
the aliens have landed.

I never said every UFO photograph was a faked by the
photographer, though I will go on record as saying there has
never been a single photograph that has been proven to show an
alien craft. Not a single one.

Every single UFO photograph to date has either been a) a fake,
b) a misrepresentation of natural phenomena, or c) inconclusive.
And some people (okay, let's face it, many people , in Ufology)
seem to think that because something is inconclusive, why, it
simply must be aliens!!!

If you've got a photo that proves to the world that aliens are
regularly visiting the earth, abducting its people, and
seemingly crashing in the desert with alarming regularity, I for
one would love to see it. I've been in this business for years
and I've seen plenty of pretty pictures, but nothing with
anything else to back it up.


Ian Rogers








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                        The Origins Of Biblical Tales

From: Jason Martell <Jason@Xfacts.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 18:26:05 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 08:41:20 -0400
Subject: The Origins Of Biblical Tales


SUMERIAN TABLETS - THE ORIGINS OF BIBLICAL TALES

Many of the stories in the Old testament as well as the English
version speak of amazing events that took place in our past. We
now have the evidence to confirm these stories.....

http://xfacts.com/iraq2003/1.html


Jason Martell
Xfacts.com






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                  Re: Lest We Forget April 24 1964 - Stuart

From: Chaz Stuart <Daydisk2@webtv.net>
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 01:39:59 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 08:48:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Lest We Forget April 24 1964 - Stuart


 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:36:36 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Lest We Forget April 24 1964

 >From: Chaz Stuart <Daydisk2@webtv.net>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 00:25:38 -0500 (EST)
 >Subject: Re: Lest We Forget April 24 196

<snip>


 >Neither should we forget, as many have, that earlier that same
morning, Lonny T. Wilcox alleged to have seen essentially the
same thing, sans the flames and marking on the side of the
craft. He claims to have even talked to the two little men.

 >I think you mean _Gary_ T. Wilcox.


Yes, I meant Gary. I don't know where that "Lonny" came from!

--Chaz







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                     The WHY? Files - Pilot's Sightings

From: Geoff Richardson <geoff@fastdog.karoo.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 15:27:52 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 12:19:10 -0400
Subject: The WHY? Files - Pilot's Sightings


New files uploaded to The WHY? Files:

Pilots' Sightings - some significant sightings made by Civil and
Military Pilots - including audio files of UFOs being reported
to Air Traffic Control.

The WHY? Files Network -  http://www.thewhyfiles.co.uk


Geoff Richardson








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                          SCI FI Channel Statement

From: Larry Landsman - SCI FI Channel <Larry.Landsman@unistudios.com>
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 12:08:04 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 12:25:24 -0400
Subject: SCI FI Channel Statement


Given the response to our broadcast of various UFO programming
on April 15th, the SCI FI Channel would like to address two
issues: independently produced documentaries vs. SCI FI
commissioned documentaries; and the Coalition for Freedom of
Information.

1. SCI FI Channel is currently setting aside a block of
primetime on Tuesday evenings each week to air series and
documentaries on "unexplained phenomena" produced by independent
filmmakers. SCI FI is providing these filmmakers with the
opportunity to gain national television exposure for their
material (some reflecting controversial points of view) because
much of these programs do not fit in with current programming
strategies of other networks. Although SCI FI fully anticipates
that these independently authored documentaries may generate
discussion - pro and con - about the issues they portray, they
do _not_ necessarily reflect SCI FI's point of view.

Furthermore, although SCI FI is first and foremost an
entertainment network broadcasting a wide array of programming -
  from fiction to non-fiction, we are also committed to further
serious public inquiry and understanding of the 'UFO
Phenomenon'. To that end, SCI FI is committing significant
resources to commissioning its own documentaries that we hope
will address some of the most important issues in a credible
way, stimulating further investigation. Unlike these
aforementioned acquired programs, SCI FI creatively oversees the
productions that it commissions specifically for the Channel,
like The Roswell Crash: Startling New Evidence.

2. The Coalition for Freedom of Information (CFI) is an entirely
separate entity from SCI FI. Supporting CFI's mission is part of
SCI FI Channel's UFO public advocacy initiative, but CFI's
mission is its own: to generate serious media coverage of the
UFO issue; to work with members of Congress; to assist
scientists in gaining credibility for the subject and increasing
resources for research (www.freedomofinfo.org). In alignment
with these goals, CFI (with SCI FI's support) is working on a
number of projects and initiatives, including a FOIA
investigation with a professional team into the 1965 Kecksburg
incident.


Larry Landsman

Director, Special Projects
SCI FI Channel







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                     Re: SCI FI Channel Statement - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 19:17:55 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 15:29:43 -0400
Subject: Re: SCI FI Channel Statement - Hall


 >From: Larry Landsman - SCI FI Channel <Larry.Landsman@unistudios.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 12:08:04 -0400
 >Subject: SCI FI Channel Statement

 >Given the response to our broadcast of various UFO programming
 >on April 15th, the SCI FI Channel would like to address two
 >issues: independently produced documentaries vs. SCI FI
 >commissioned documentaries; and the Coalition for Freedom of
 >Information.

 >1. SCI FI Channel is currently setting aside a block of
 >primetime on Tuesday evenings each week to air series and
 >documentaries on "unexplained phenomena" produced by independent
 >filmmakers. SCI FI is providing these filmmakers with the
 >opportunity to gain national television exposure for their
 >material (some reflecting controversial points of view) because
 >much of these programs do not fit in with current programming
 >strategies of other networks. Although SCI FI fully anticipates
 >that these independently authored documentaries may generate
 >discussion - pro and con - about the issues they portray, they
 >do _not_ necessarily reflect SCI FI's point of view.

 >Furthermore, although SCI FI is first and foremost an
 >entertainment network broadcasting a wide array of programming -
 >  from fiction to non-fiction, we are also committed to further
 >serious public inquiry and understanding of the 'UFO
 >Phenomenon'. To that end, SCI FI is committing significant
 >resources to commissioning its own documentaries that we hope
 >will address some of the most important issues in a credible
 >way, stimulating further investigation. Unlike these
 >aforementioned acquired programs, SCI FI creatively oversees the
 >productions that it commissions specifically for the Channel,
 >like The Roswell Crash: Startling New Evidence.

 >2. The Coalition for Freedom of Information (CFI) is an entirely
 >separate entity from SCI FI. Supporting CFI's mission is part of
 >SCI FI Channel's UFO public advocacy initiative, but CFI's
 >mission is its own: to generate serious media coverage of the
 >UFO issue; to work with members of Congress; to assist
 >scientists in gaining credibility for the subject and increasing
 >resources for research (www.freedomofinfo.org). In alignment
 >with these goals, CFI (with SCI FI's support) is working on a
 >number of projects and initiatives, including a FOIA
 >investigation with a professional team into the 1965 Kecksburg
 >incident.

 >Larry Landsman

 >Director, Special Projects
 >SCI FI Channel

Larry,

You speak of the "SCI FI point of view," but then define it as
something other than what you see when you turn on the channel.
What I saw in "UFO Chronicles" in the first hour on April 15 (I
was too disgusted to watch the following programs) was far and
away the worst piece of garbage I have ever seen aired on the
subject of UFOs.

 From the viewpoint of an ill-informed public and of the much-
benighted UFO research community, accurate and factual reporting
is badly needed. The public already is very confused and doesn't
know what to believe thanks to that sort of outrageously false,
inaccurate, showcase for every con-man and opportunist,
something which they are unable to distinguish from solid
information because they lack the proper background information.

You say your own programs will be better. That still doesn't
excuse the airing of such trash. Things may be different in the
world of fiction and people may be able to recognize the good
from the bad, but we are dealing with nonfiction here (except
that the April 15 program certainly qualified as science
fiction).

If the Sci-Channel is really interested in public advocacy,
generating serious media coverage, and working with Congress,
then the first order of business should be to stick to your own
programming when it comes to UFOs. Otherwise people are forced
to look for a diamond in a galactic-size manure pile.


  - Dick Hall











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                 Budd Hopkins' UFO Seminar - May 10th (NYC)

From: Intruders Foundation <Ifinfo1@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 16:08:04 EDT
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 17:39:46 -0400
Subject: Budd Hopkins' UFO Seminar - May 10th (NYC)


Intruders Foundation Seminar Series Announcement

AN AMAZING UFO ABDUCTION WITH VIDEOTAPED EVIDENCE

Saturday, May 10, 2003

IF (The Intruders Foundation) will present a virtually unique
case in which the abductee, "Frank M.," a resident of upstate
New York, videotaped a UFO in daylight, and, a few moments
later, was abducted from his home into the very craft he had
just photographed. Frank's videotape has been carefully analyzed
by Dr. Bruce Maccabee, an optical physicist and veteran UFO
researcher, and found to be authentic.

Frank M., a veteran New York state corrections officer with a
lifelong history of UFO sightings and abductions, will show his
videotape of the UFO and recount several of his other encounter
experiences. The co-presenter of the May seminar, Budd Hopkins,
will play an audiotape of a hypnosis session he conducted with
Frank, in which he describes his abduction into the craft he had
just videotaped.

Frank M. - an intelligent, articulate and highly credible
witness - has done extensive research on the unusually shaped
craft he videotaped, and will present photographs and drawings
of similar UFOs from elsewhere in the United States. In November
1993, he and his wife encountered an enormous UFO while driving
home from work about 12:30 AM. At the seminar he will present
drawings of the object and photographs of the encounter cite,
after which Budd Hopkins will show a videotape of a dramatic
interview he conducted with Frank and his wife in which they
described this event - one which has all the earmarks of yet
another unremembered abduction experience.

For anyone interested in the UFO abduction phenomenon, this
seminar offers not only an extremely important case with a
witness of the highest caliber, but also the kind of supporting
evidence that simply cannot be explained away. We hope to see
you at this final IF seminar of the spring season. Our programs
will resume in September.

REGISTRATION & INFORMATION

The seminar will be held on May 10th at the meeting rooms of
A.R.E., on the 10th Floor of 150 W. 28th Street, New York, NY.
The price of the seminar is $30 for non-members and $20 for
members of IF, seniors, and students. Reservations must be made
by telephone at 212-645-5278, and will be filled on a first-
come, first-served basis. Payments must be made in advance to
secure the reservation. Make checks payable to the Intruders
Foundation, P.O. Box 30233, New York, NY 10011. Only 50
reservations will be accepted.

On-street parking is generally available in the neighborhood.
The seminar will begin at 7:30 PM and end at 10:30 PM. Doors
open at 7:00 PM. There will be a half-hour intermission, during
which light complimentary refreshments will be served. A book
table will offer books, videotapes, and other material for sale
to those interested. For additional information, call IF at 212-
645-5278.

Hope to see you there!

----------

The Intruders Foundation Seminar Series is presented in the
interests of open-minded scientific learning and the free
exchange of research, ideas, and theories. IF makes no specific
claims or endorsements regarding any materials, views, or
subject matter presented by our guests.

----------

Want to know more about Budd Hopkins and his nonprofit
scientific research organization, as well as past and future IF
events? Please visit our website=E2=C7=A6

Intruders Foundation Website: www.intrudersfoundation.org

----------







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                      Re: Leo Dworshak Believes - Haith

From: Dave Haith visions@ntlworld.com
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 01:39:47 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 10:57:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Leo Dworshak Believes - Haith


>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>)
>To: <- UFO UpDates Subscribers ->
>Date: Saturday, April 26, 2003 6:51 AM
>Subject: UFO UpDate: Leo Dworshak Believes


>Source: Independent Record - Helena, Montana

http:/www.helenair.com/articles/2003/04/25/top/a01042503_01.txt

>Helena man a true believer in UFOs

>By Martin J. Kidston
>IR Staff Writer - 04/25/03

>Leo Dworshak was a boy in 1932, doing what boys do when growing
>up in Killdeer, N.D.

>But unlike most boys, Dworshak stood witness to a peculiar event
>that would change his life forever.



Quote: "They are watching us while carrying out their mission
to study grasshoppers."

Obviously they're preying mantis types keeping an eye on their
Earthly cousins!

Dave Haith

[Actually, according to Leo Dworshak, interviewed last night
 on SDI, the crews were very human-like..... and were studying
 the grasshopper/locust plagues that hit North Dakota in  the
 early 1930s --ebk]









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                     Re: The Origins Of Biblical Tales -

From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 05:00:35 +0200
Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 11:09:00 -0400
Subject: Re: The Origins Of Biblical Tales -


 >From: Jason Martell <Jason@Xfacts.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 18:26:05 -0700
 >Subject: The Origins Of Biblical Tales

 >SUMERIAN TABLETS - THE ORIGINS OF BIBLICAL TALES

 >Many of the stories in the Old testament as well as the English
 >version speak of amazing events that took place in our past. We
 >now have the evidence to confirm these stories.....

 >http://xfacts.com/iraq2003/1.html

 >Jason Martell
 >Xfacts.com

Hello Jason,

Well, I looked at your site but I did not see any evidence or
science. What I saw was a lot of speculation and assumptions by
you, Harrington, Sitchen, and Pye. This website seems to be made
for people who don't know how to research and think beyond their
own emotions.

Mythology is interesting as it gives a culture's views on their
life, history, imagination, and theology. To me, religion is a
way people have tried to make an understanding of the universe
they did not understand. Along with other texts, anthropology,
and archaeology, myths give a better understanding of past and
present cultures and human psychology. However these are
academic disciplines with established methods and standards.
Popular non fiction texts are easy to understand without much
thought or work, and in most of them you only see the author's
opinions without legitimate references to support what the
author claims. Very often there are no references and the reader
who does not seriously study the issue judges such books as to
whether they resonate with their emotions. If it resonates then
the reader jumps to being a "pseudo believer" from limited and
often inaccurate information.

At the risk of offending someone (too bad, bub) I believe that
if one examines the entire UFO field and its literature one
would see something like... I guess 98% would be found to be of
that ilk, despite the valiant and serious effort of a relatively
small minority.

That is how I feel regarding your website and the utterings of
Harrington, Sitchin, and Pye. As I have mentioned before,
fantastic statements are food for thought, but even more
important, they are grounds for further research if the claim
sounds interesting. Until that research legitimately confirms or
refutes the theory it is just another piece of paper in the big
grey file.

If one does a simple Google search under Mesopotamian mythology
a host of websites will be found, including the exact
translations of the Sumerian and Babylonian tablets. In their
mythologies there were a huge pantheon of Gods and Goddesses.
The creation myth is right there on the web in English, as
directly translated from the tablets. If one wants to study it
more seriously then research and read the scholarly field and
ignore the speculative stuff.

Of course my ancestors, the Canaanites (later the Hebrews)
migrated from Ur in Mesopotamia to what is now Israel. They
adapted many of the stories of the Mesopotamian myths into the
writing of the old testament of the bible. My ancestors were
even egotistical enough to claim that there was one God and they
were the chosen people to receive Moses's covenant with this one
anthropomorphic male God. Then, if one believes the old
testament, they went around with that covenant and killed all
the pagans, including women and children, who did not believe in
the covenant. Unfortunately they twisted the mesopotamian basis
of Genesis, Adam and Eve into guilt trips and formed a vengeful
God to be appeased at all costs.

Well, I'll be damned. :-) I don't even believe in my own
religion and I am a happy heathen. Do Gods have to retire at a
certain age? Maybe that is why they change over time? Do they
die? Maybe the one God was just some kind of orphan after all
the Mesopotamian Gods and Goddesses died? Are they buried
somewhere beyond old clay tablets and old books? Maybe they are
all on Nibiru and are, after 3600 years, bringing the planet
back to smite me with it? I don't think so. A number of Sumerian
scholars feel the name Neberu stood for Jupiter, not a 10th
planet.

Certainly the bible has some lessons in ethics and morality but
that developed from the evolution of people, not some
commandment from a God. There is a lot of scholarly research
that studies the development of ethics along with our evolution
as a species.

The Christians put a new twist on things by making a somewhat
more loving God, with a loving Jesus as the son of God and the
center of the theology. In the new testament, the story of the
virgin birth of Jesus is a hand me down from the earlier
Egyptian stories. Oh no, I don't believe that the Bible is the
literal word of God, I'm a heretic and I might spend a long time
cooking it up in Hell's kitchen (not the New York one).

The end of the Mosaic covenant was when Paul let two gentile
(goyem) Roman soldiers join the Synagogue of Jerusalem. They
were uncircumcised, which made them unclean and in violation of
Moses' covenant - no uncircumcised goyem allowed. That started a
great upheaval because the new covenant, later to be called the
religion of Christ, was trying to sell itself to the Jewish
people.

There were great arguments over this and the Jewish Pharisees
decided to stick with the Mosaic covenant. If you know Jewish
history and contemporary antisemitism, you know we have faced a
great deal of suffering at the hands of those who have hated us
for not believing that Jesus was the literal son of God. Is that
what God chose us for? Today a very small minority of Jews are
orthodox and still perform the old rituals. In Israel 70% of the
Jewish people are secular, not religious.

Of course Mohammad was a Johnnie come lately well after the
Jesus story who claimed that he was in a cave and God spoke to
him. Why was he different than any televangelist or another form
of psychotic who believes God is speaking to him, I don't know.
Sure, I dropped acid and thought I was one with spirit but I
have no proof that it was anything beyond my brain. Mohammad
then formed a new religion, claiming that it came from Ishtar,
one of the sons of Abraham. Sure enough, he soon had many
believers stuck just like flies to old fashioned fly paper. What
is really weird is that they think Jews, Christians, and moslems
are descended from the same father but antisemitism is state
supported hatred in most Arab countries, No Jews are allowed,
even as tourists, into countries such as Saudi Arabia.

If one gets his or her nose out of the Bible, turns one's ears
away from the Rabbi, preacher or Mullah, and looks into real
scholarship of the origins of the bible and those religions,
then literal belief falls away. The myths go on and on.
Academics believe that human cultures go through three stages of
magic, religion, and science. As you know, there are not clean
edges between those stages and there are overlaps. Hopefully
advances in education and communication will accelerate the
progress. Human psychology is a funny thing and even now some
people regress to earlier stages when they are not able to cope
with the modern world. Things such as fundamentalism and New Age
spiritual myths. For me, I feel there is so much that is yet
undiscovered that a sense of wonder and mystery suffice. Sorry
bub, but trying to claim the landing of extraterrestrials by
force fitting it into myths, bible stories, and old religious
paintings does not cut it with me.

If you are looking for a better way to make money I just thought
of a great scam. It's called the Josh covenant. Lay a guilt trip
on uncircumcised adult males that they do not look modern and
streamlined for the 21st century. Show them testimonies from the
most desired female movie stars, singers, and models that say
they only go for streamlined penises. Make them feel inferior so
that they will go to one of my franchised "chop shops" (that are
not for stolen cars) and we will give them that streamlined
circumcised look. Naturally the workers get to keep all the
tips, except for 10% that go to a charity to help cultures that
don't have enough protein in their diets. I guess that is what
one may call recycling. I'm an environmentalist. By the way, did
you ever hear the story of two cannibals eating a clown, when
one says to the other "something about this meat tastes funny"?

God, I'm such a heretic. I'm not worthy. I bow to your grace,
sir.

Please don't beat me with a tablet, six pointed star, a cross or
a crescent. Please don't stone me but remember, I prefer to get
stoned with the holy herb and I do not like rocks bouncing off
my hard head.

I don't mean to offend any humans or extraterrestrials who are
religious. Please God, I know you told me "I'll see you in Hell"
but you are not the first and probably not the last to say that.
Pat Robertson even told me the same. I'm sure if I go there I'll
see him along with that Mesopotamian named Saddam Hussein, whose
mother gave him brain damage as a baby when she dropped one of
the clay tablets on him. Will I get there before or after Tariq
Aziz, the affable smiling grandpa with deluded beliefs? Does he
know any good Mesopotamian jokes? Will I see any Listerions
there? If you need to, please get down on your knees and save
yourselves before it is too late. You could get hit by a bus
today, even while praying.

This is just my own opinion. I'm not asking you to believe me
before you do some research on your own. Just keep your nose out
of a lot of speculative popular books and stick it in ones with
more authority. My earliest effort at scholarship was when I
studied under the esteemed Professor Rocky and Professor
Bullwinkle at the University of the Absurd. Fractured flickers
was my favorite class.

Someday I will see you in one of the two H places, either
upstairs with virgins or downstairs in the hot, flaming kitchen
with Satan and the punk rockers,


Josh









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                           STS-48 Video Revisited

From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com>
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 20:30:39 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 11:59:55 -0400
Subject: STS-48 Video Revisited


STS-48 Video Revisited: "Proof" Of Its Prosaic Nature Maybe
Isn't Proof

Mark Carlotto has posted an article I wrote concerning what I
think are some new insights into the STS-48 video, gained by
directly confronting what Jim Oberg presented as the best
evidence for a prosaic explanation. The paper is at:

http://www.newfrontiersinscience.com/index.shtml

There's very little about the 'UFOs' in the article; it's
primarily concerned with the light flash that supposedly
coincided with the firing of a shuttle thruster. If the part
about the timing issue seems a little too much to slog through,
I suggest starting with the section that follows entitled "The
True Nature of the Light Flash". I spent 99% of the effort on
the timing issue, but it's the light flash itself that I think
is the strongest line of evidence against the prosaic
explanation.

The timing issue, though, was actually the most fun and also the
most frustrating. (I accidentally discovered evidence that Mount
Pinatubo erupted three months before the STS-48 mission, if
there are any volcano skeptics out there).

There was a variety of different subjects that I had to look
into, from the aforementioned volcano to the nature of the
"nightglow" region of the Earth's atmosphere. It occurred to me
while I was doing this that what should have happened 12 years
ago was a multidisciplinary investigation by experts from a
number of fields. Unfortunately, the scientific establishment as
it is presently constituted is too dysfunctional for that sort
of thing. Maybe this paper, and the one Mark wrote for JSE that
he also re-posted, will help change that. Or maybe it will just
get swept under the carpet again. But that carpet seems to be
getting awfully lumpy.









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                       'Alien Autopsy' A 'Confession'?

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 20:11:54 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 12:03:10 -0400
Subject: 'Alien Autopsy' A 'Confession'?


List,

I found the following article at the following URL:

http://www.ufoworld.co.uk/v21.txt

Any thoughts?

Mac

----


1. 'Alien Autopsy': The Origin Revealed?

As first mentioned on the 'UFO Research List' [UFORL], I
recently came across the following:

http://www.mhvf.net/forum/scifihorror/posts/124218244.html


'Don's FANTASIA Diary 7-26-2001'

"Because of the dinner, we all skipped the 7:45pm showing of
FUCCON FAMILY (it's playing again later) and went to Club 300 to
keep getting tanked on more beer. About a half hour after we sat
down, Olaf Ittenbach, director of tonight's LEGION OF THE DEAD
joined us for a few pitchers. The beer kept on pouring and we
had a good time. We had to get Olaf completely plastered to get
ready for his film's premiere, of course! I found out that, a
few years ago, some wacko actually held everyone hostage at Club
300 and finally shot himself. It's a great place to drink! Also,
this might be of interest to some... remember the 'Alien
Autopsy' craze a few years ago? Remember the Fox special that
actually interviewed Nacho Cerda about the similarities between
his film AFTERMATH and the 'autopsy' video? Well, here is a
surprise. Olaf admitted (I guess he can now that the contact he
had was so old) that HE was the one who helped create that damn
video! The truth is revealed!

He went into great detail about how they faked the film stock,
etc. and said that he did it because they paid him a LOT of
money to do it. So, there you have it, folks! Olaf Ittenbach,
director or PREMUTOS and LEGION OF THE DEAD is the bad boy
behind that controversy.

We talked briefly about the Stan Winston interview and about how
Winston was saying the autopsy was too real to be faked. All
Olaf said was that they probably gave him LOTS of money to do
the interview!"

[END]

A key figure in the 'alien autopsy' story was of course Volker
Spielberg, a fellow German and 'music publisher' who allegedly
funded Ray Santilli's acquisition from the 'Roswell cameraman'
and statedly owned the 'film reels'.

I'm not familiar with Ittenbach, however, a cursory research of
his 'blood and gore' films does suggest an 'alien autopsy' would
be consistent with the genre and his interest in 'special
effects' - see:

http://www.legionthemovie.com/legionolaf.html

As for the claim "they faked the film stock", that's
disconcerting as no 16mm 'alien autopsy' film stock was ever
made available, aside from those few frames with anomalous
images which didn't appear within the footage.

However, his 1997 film, 'Premutos', was shot on 16mm.

Although the author, Don May, has been of assistance, it seems
there was indeed, "a LOT of pitchers of beer" drunk that night
and recollections are a bit hazy!

However, Don has suggested how Ittenbach can be contacted and
I've followed that up.

For a number of reasons, I would be more than a little surprised
if Ittenbach _was_ responsible for creating the 'alien autopsy'.

Only Ittenbach can fully resolve whether he did take credit for
the original footage and if that was in fact a justified claim.
Incidentally, I see that rumours of his connection were actually
being circulated before the apparent July, 2001 confession to
Don May and others: "Also, rumor has it that Ittenbach was
responsible for the infamous Alien Autopsy footage...":

http://www.vidjunkie.com/barebones/archive.htm

However, there may be significant misunderstandings within Don's
account of the inebriated anecdotes and I might have pieced
together the true story of Ittenbach's involvement. I've
discovered he was certainly a 'player' in those early days and
why the rumour, even if untrue, could easily have surfaced in
later years.

I'll explain more in due course.
[END OF EXTRACT]


I'm now able to do so within this newsletter.

During 1995 [when the footage was first broadcast after world-
  wide distribution rights had been sold], the film and
encompassing 'Roswell cameraman' story featured in a documentary
by 'STERN TV', a German news magazine program on the RTL channel
['stern' is apparently German for 'star'].

My files contain the review from a friend in Germany, who
reports that the STERN TV broadcast was called, 'How to Make an
Alien' and they staged their own 'alien autopsy' for comparison.
It was created by "one SFX man and 5 students (physician) in
five weeks".

I've located online the confirmation that Ittenbach's credits
include:

1996 Roswell Alien Stern TV 16 mm, 20 min
1996 Roswell Alien Report Video, 15 min

See:

http://www.splatter.de/fgrafie.html

Although the year doesn't equate, I'm assuming it's an error and
should relate to 1995, when Ittenbach had been contracted to
show how an 'alien autopsy' could, inherently, be faked.

I have no record - during thoroughly documented 1996
developments - of any STERN TV interest during that year and
certainly not an attempted 'alien autopsy' recreation, which
would surely have been widely noted.

If these assumptions are correct, then Ittenbach's 1995 'alien
autopsy' did not receive favourable reviews from some who
subsequently viewed the 'RTL footage'!

Although Don May, President of 'Synapse Films', is now aware of
Ittenbach's resultant 'alien autopsy' spoof, he remains of the
opinion that Ittenbach was acknowledging he created the 'alien
autopsy' footage promoted by Ray Santilli.

Despite considerable efforts by myself and others to contact
Ittenbach, he has not as yet clarified matters.

Ray Santilli, who claimed to have bought film of an alien
dissection from the 'Roswell' cameraman, wrote to me, "It's
complete crap. I have never heard of the guy".

I suspect Ray to be correct and the explanation is as
revealed here.







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                  Re: Lest We Forget April 24 1964 - Easton

From: James Easton <voyager@jeaston.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 04:58:50 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 12:05:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Lest We Forget April 24 1964 - Easton


Regarding:

 >From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
 >Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 19:51:41 -0400
 >Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 21:22:35 -0400
 >Subject: Lest We Forget April 24 1964

Ray wrote:

 >Thirty nine years ago today.....

Ray,

You have absolutely highlighted a question I intended to ask.

Before doing so, it should be acknowledged that your resultant
book, 'Socorro Saucer', is not only a definitive on-site
documentation of this pivotal case, it's a significant 'first-
  hand' account of any founding 'UFO' investigation.

As you may be aware, I have pursued an earlier suggested
possibility that said unidentified object was a hot-air balloon.

My research publications on same are now historical and
ultimately, that conceivable explanation, as with any other,
terrestrial or otherwise, has to be proven.

This also acknowledged, you cite:

[BEGIN]
So, lest we forget, for a look at Chris Lambright's excellent
and thoroughly researched painting of the Socorro object at
lift-off from the Socorro ravine, along with a brief account of
the event, click on:

http://www.cufon.org/contributors/chrisl/socorro.htm
[END]


I have previously published, re that exact same representation:

[BEGIN]
It's also been contended that a hot-air balloon would have to be
much larger than the object Zamora witnessed.

A conspicuous omission from Zamora's official statement is any
description of the object's size and such fundamental
information is equally absent despite Lorenzen and Stanford's
interviews with him.

It has been suggested that because Zamora reported the 'UFO' as
a car, he would be uncomfortable admitting this was subsequently
recognised to be a much bigger object.

Although that's speculation, what we do know is Zamora stated
how during his second, fleeting sighting he, "Noted red
lettering of some type. Insignia was about 2 1/2' high and about
2' wide I guess. Was in middle of object".

In his sketch of this observation, Zamora depicts an object
which would, comparative to dimensions of that 'insignia', be
some ten foot wide. However, it's a 'rough' drawing, especially
as he shows the 'insignia' to be wider than its height, contrary
to the description.

A more reliable perspective might be offered by Chris
Lambright's online material at:

http://www.cufon.org/contributors/chrisl/socorro.htm

Here, Lambright publishes a painting (I understand it's his own
artwork) which Zamora has seen and was reportedly satisfied
represented in context the object he witnessed (aside from the
'legs' possibly being extended further).

If Zamora corroborated relative proportions of that 'insignia'
to the object's overall size, it results in a 'craft' which, as
shown, is some fifty feet in length.
[END]


As you know, when Zamora first observed his enigmatic object
from distance, "for possibly two seconds or so", he 'called it
in' as an 'upturned car'.

Zamora's closer view was when he then approached the object, got
out of his car and 'for a couple of steps' could see it more
clearly, before its 'roaring flame' statedly frightened him and
he turned and fled, dropping his glasses in the process, etc.

Did he ever speak with you about what size the object was when
observed during that, albeit brief, closest encounter?

It's evidence which seems to be strikingly missing from his
otherwise highly detailed, contemporary accounts.


As asides, also absent and to my knowledge only ever mentioned
by Zamora in one interview years later, is a problem he had with
his radio. It's been taken as read that after Zamora returned to
his car, he immediately called Ned Lopez back at HQ. From
Zamora's official statement:

"I picked up my glasses (I left the sun glasses on ground), got
into the car, and radioed to Nep Lopez, radio operator, to 'look
out of the window, to see if you could see an object.' He asked
what is it? I answered 'It looks like a balloon'."

However, there was an article entitled, 'Lonnie Zamora's Big
White Egg!' in the 'Look' magazine 'Flying Saucers' 1967 special
issue. The author, 'Jack Graeme, UPI Albuquerque, New Mexico',
writes:

"The object remained stationary for several seconds. Then it
flew off in a southerly direction following the contour of the
gully. Zamora raced back to the car and tried to call in to
headquarters but the radio didn't work.

'That puzzled me because it had been okay,' he recalls. 'It
finally came on and I asked the state police to send out
Sergeant Chavez'."

Did Zamora ever mention how long the radio was inoperative,
before he could make that call?


Zamora depicted the departing object; "It looks like a balloon".

Was he ever asked whether that meant, 'it resembles a balloon',
or, 'it looks like it is a balloon'?


The small Socorro Airport was nearby.

It seems nobody ever asked them if they were aware of anything
flying that could explain Zamora's sighting.

Is that correct and if affirmative, presumably because the
object wasn't believed to have a conceivable local origin?


James Easton.
E-mail: voyager@jeaston.com







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              Appeal Of State-Rejected FOIA-Fee-Waiver Request

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net>
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 03:40:01 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 12:11:19 -0400
Subject: Appeal Of State-Rejected FOIA-Fee-Waiver Request


Appeal of My State-rejected FOIA-fee-Waiver Request

To: president@whitehouse.gov

TO:    Chief, FOIA Requester Liaison Division
        Office of Information Programs and Services
        A/rps/IPS/RL
        U. S. Department of State
        Washington, DC 20522-6001

FROM: Larry W. Bryant
       3518 Martha Custis Drive
       Alexandria, VA 22302

DATE: April 28, 2003

REFERENCE: My FOIA Request No. 200301092 of March 25, 2003

By his April 22, 2003, letter to me, your FOIA official Robert
W. DuBose's summary, improper denial of my FOIA-fee-waiver
request (as regards your agency's sought-for records-search for
all responsive records pertaining to the 1975 UFO-intrusion
incident) invites me to appeal his decision to you.

Accordingly, please process and grant this appeal on an
expedited basis, given my request's obvious implications for a
"smoking gun" revelation as to the U. S. government's ongoing
coverup of the UFO experience.

I base this appeal on the following rationale, centered on Mr.
DuBose's erroneous decision not to categorize my requester
status as a "representative of the news media" (e.g., as a free-
lance writer/journalist and senior member of the UFO-awareness
press):

In the first place, my various free-lance writing's publication
credits (which date back to February 1964 with my (paid) article
for Fate magazine, titled "A Hard Look at UFO News Management")
have paralleled and complemented my full-time career as a
writer-editor, culminating in my civil-service duty as an
associate editor for the Army News Service during the period
January 1981 - June 1994. The Army News Service functions as the
Department of the Army's equivalent to the Associated Press - by
electronically dispatching news stories, features, and
commentaries to several hundred post newspapers worldwide. Those
13 years as a practitioner of the craft of news-writing and
news-gathering have helped me hone my knowledge and skills as a
UFO researcher/writer, and vice versa.

For about 40 years, then, my free-lance UFO-related publication
credits have included articles in such wide-ranging media as the
Newport News, Va., Daily Press, the Baltimore Sun's Sunday
magazine, the newsstand magazine called FACT, the newsstand
magazine called Flying Saucers, the NYC newspaper called The
News World, the newsstand magazine called The Realist, and
several UFO-related newsletters/journals (including the public-
  interest group Operation Right-to-Know's "ORTK Forum"; the
Phoenix Newsletter; and the MUFON UFO Journal, which used to
carry my column "UFO Secrecy Update"). The Mutual UFO Network,
Inc., happens to be chartered as a "501(C)3" public charity
whose chief aim is to help educate the public about UFO reality;
and I serve as their director of governmental affairs. Back in
the late seventies, the newsstand magazine US solicited (and
published) an article from me profiling a then-famous police
chief.

As time passed, and as a number of these periodicals perished,
I've concentrated most of my spare time on the activism for
which I'm most noted: pursuing, at my own expense, greater UFO
freedom of information and accountability from officialdom. This
continuing role as a researcher-activist-writer has included my
pursuit of several First Amendment and FOIA lawsuits against
certain agencies knowledgeable of and/or complicit in the so-
called official coverup of the UFO-E.T. experience. One of the
results of this pursuit is my book "UFO Politics at the White
House: Citizens Rally 'round Jimmy Carter's Promise" (February
2002; published by http://www.invispress.com ). Because of my
sustained activism, I've been the guest of numerous radio/TV
talk shows (including, several years ago, a live appearance on a
program called "Politics Today," broadcast by Canadian
Television during their coverage of the U. S. Air Force's "final
solution" report about the Roswell Incident). An excerpt from
one of my lawsuits (Petition for a Writ of Mandamus) appeared in
the "Readings" section of Harper's magazine for October 2000.

With the advent of the speedy, wide dissemination of
news/information afforded by the Internet, my contemporary
writings have reached a growing international audience via all
the hundreds of UFO-related websites sharing links with such
sites as CAUS.org and UFOcity.com . With just a few button
clicks on one's computer, any visitor to the CAUS site can view
at least the following six essays/reports/articles published
there from me:

* http://www.caus.org/guestcomments/gc081400.shtml - "Showdown at the
OK(la.) Corral: UCGJP v. IAPCOD" (re a proposed grand-jury probe into
the Roswell Incident).

* http://www.caus.org/guestcomments/gc032300.shtml - "The Love-Hate
Relationship between Whistleblower Philip J. Corso and the Federal
Bureau of Investigation."

* http://www.caus.org/commentary/cc081999.shtml - "Yes, Virginia,
We're Being Invaded."

* http://www.caus.org/guestcomments/gc051800.shtml - "Petition for a
Writ of Mandamus...."

* http://www.caus.org/guestcomments/gc020701.shtml - "The UFO Attack
of Oct. 19, 1959: Echoes of the Shot UNheard 'round the World."

* http://www.caus.org/guestcomments/gc011901.shtml - "UFOpolitik at
Edwards Air Force Base."

Although the CAUS site functions now as a static
library/information resource, its director, Peter A. Gersten,
publishes an associated online newsletter called "PAG E-News
Service," which routinely receives submissions of update items
from me (as a consultant to that service).

As to the UFOcity.com site, which now has resumed operation after the
massive computer crash of a few weeks ago, I remain a columnist there
(via "LWB Chronicles"). To view some of my material published on that
site in recent months, simply visit the site called
VirtuallyStrange.net, whose "UFO Updates" section catalogues and
archives my latest contributions to both sites, at the following URL:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/cgi-bin/search-email.cgi?index=/ufo/updates/&key
=overtci

If and when this fee-waiver dispute ends up in federal court, I
expect to solicit from both Peter Gersten and Peter Robbins a
written declaration as to my role as a periodic "content
provider" for their respective websites/news services. I also
expect to provide the court with ample hard evidence (e.g.,
photocopies/printouts) of my publication credits cited above. To
even the most casual observer, this evidence should be
overwhelming in its confirmation of my status as a
past/current/future "journalist" (i.e., in dictionary parlance:
a person who writes for publication in newspapers and
periodicals). How many proofs-of-publication will satisfy the
court's determination that I finally have justified my
existence? That's analogous to asking, "How many roses/rose buds
must a gardener observe (and for how long?) amidst the branches
of a given bush before she concludes she's obviously dealing
with a bonafide rose bush?"

Accordingly, why must your agency continue to spend taxpayer
money in stonewalling my request at an expenditure level that
quite likely will exceed the records-search/review fees incurred
in the processing of my request? Perhaps the answer lies in your
agency's (correct) assumption that numerous other FOIA requests
will ensue from me as further UFO-coverup whistleblowers step
forward with their revelations, thus causing your agency to have
to account for what it knows, and when it knew it, about UFO-
E.T. reality. That assumption alone assures that my FOIA quest
for full, swift, accurate accountability from pertinent
State/DOD officials can (and will) contribute significantly to
public understanding/oversight of government operations or
activities. Were my FOIA request to pertain to the price of tea
in China, I could understand Mr. DuBose's decision to label my
request as trivial. But I can think of no federal judge who
would consider insignificant the ramifications of the 1975
portion of the UFO coverup once enough whistleblowers come
forward with additional confirmatory evidence.

What's more, if Mr. DuBose's decision seeks to levy exorbitant
records-search fees so as to discourage/undermine my current and
future FOIA inquiries, then that official stonewalling,
obfuscation, and perversion of FOIA intent deserve the spotlight
of full public exposure, analysis, and reform; and Mr. DuBose as
a public servant must step aside in favor of that
accountability.

Please note that, by snail-mail, I'm sending to you a signed
printout of this e-formatted letter.



LARRY W. BRYANT
Director, Washington, D.C., Office of
Citizens Against UFO Secrecy

Copies furnished to:

Mark S. Zaid, Esq. (Washington, D.C.)

Peter Robbins, Editor-in-Chief, UFOcity.com

Peter A. Gersten, Director, CAUS (Arizona)

Chairman, Subcommittee on Government Information, Management, and
Technology - U. S. House of Representatives

Chairman, U. S. Senate Committee on the Judiciary

Chairman, U. S. Senate Committee on Government Affairs

Director, The Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press

Director, Public Citizen







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   Apr > Apr 28

                       Re: UFOs Over Cuba? - Friedman

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 12:42:58 -0300
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 12:15:52 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs Over Cuba? - Friedman


 >From: Santiago Yturria <SYTURRIA@aol.com>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 23:12:48 EDT
 >Subject: Re: UFOs Over Cuba?

<snip>

 >But interesting as well. For example, the one from October 30,
 >1996. An insolit announcement made by The official Cuban
 >Government Radio (Radio Rebelde), that informed today that the
 >team sent to investigate the UFO encounter by a farmer Adolfo
 >Zerate, that happened on Sunday October 15 at 9:30 a.m. in the
 >town of Torrente, located at the south of Matanzas Province,
 >confirmed it was a closed encounter with a UFO and its entities.
 >The report is very extensive and explicit.

 >This was the first time in 36 years, that the Cuban government
 >admitted, in public, the existence of UFOs to the Cubans on the
 >island.

 >There are more reports from 1995 and 1996 and one from 1978
 >involving a UFO contact with Cuban MIG's. However Cuban Air
 >Force General Rafael Del Pino denied later that this encounter
 >took place. This report made public in 1978 by Mr. Stanton
 >Friedman during a lecture at the University of Miami is still a
 >relevant incident in the cuban ufology.

The Cuban MIG encounter as intercepted the NSA listening post
took place in March 1967. It was publicized some in 1978 and
also mentioned in the book "Clear Intent" by Barry Greenwood and
Lawrence Fawcett.

Researcher Bob Todd had visits from government agents (USAF and
FBI) in response to his claiming he was going to write to Cuba
when the US government provided nothing in response to his FOIA
request. Since I had provided the intial info and was the only
one who knew the informant's name, I was waiting for a
government visit. None came.I had made a lot of phone calls to
alert any one listening that I was not going to give up the
name.


Stan Friedman








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                  The Manipulation Of UK Ufological Studies

From: Chris Parr <parros@roswelldog.fsnet.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 01:36:03 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 22:28:08 -0400
Subject: The Manipulation Of UK Ufological Studies


UFO UpDates contributors and recipients I presume, are well
aware of the banal and manipulative stranglehold which is sadly
represented for the U.K by Quest International UFO Magazine UK.
In the most questionable circumstances at the UFO magazine
awards and Gala Dinner ceremony of 2002, we witnessed Quest
UFO magazine give the award of UFO investigator of the year
2001/2002 to an X-files fantasist with no ufological evidence or
credence by the name of Sharon Larkiin.

At the Leeds 2002 conference, many newcomers to UFO studies were
caught up in the alleged 'United Spirit' within U.K. Ufology and
extended their Leeds conference visit for a celebration at the
Leeds 21 conference anniversary.  The truly sickening factor was
that our prospective and valued new recruits to ufology had just
paid their 30 Pounds to the Birdsall bandwagon and were treated
as refugees and they just felt "ripped off" - the many quotes of
their brief stay)

Here in the UK, we have become familiar with the UFO experience/
contactee who annually feeds the desperate ETH community with
footage of such inept substance that even the slightest graze of
cocas razor will give the blatant characteristics of helium
balloon/stunt kite/etc!

The majority of us do not want UK ufological studies to be a
victim of an exploited product.


Sincere regards from us here in the UK... nobody owns the skies!

Chris Parr








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   Apr > Apr 29

                               Re: 'The Wing'

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 21:33:25 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 06:54:46 -0400
Subject: Re: 'The Wing'


 >From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 15:35:26 -0700
 >Subject: Re: 'The Wing'

 >>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 09:08:55 -0700
 >>Subject: 'The Wing'

 >>I thought the list might be interested in the following link I
 >>received this AM:

 >>http://www.ufolab.info/the_wing.htm

 >>Any comments?

 >Ed

 >My impression -- lots of extravagant claims and _zero_ evidence,
 >not even an alleged insider witness or leaked document.  And
 >then there are statements like "government scientists managed to
 >figure out how to cancel the sound of the plane using its
 >speed."  What exactly does that mean?  Sounds like a bunch of
 >gobbledegook.

 >The guy obviously dreamed up the whole thing.


Hello David:

I agree. The part I like goes like this:

"The government, as we speak, has teams of scientists working
on a conversion kit so the "WING" can "suck-in-and-convert" its
own fuel from the atmosphere."

If anyone buys into that, I have a big bridge for sale. Fossil
fuels would be obsolete overnight with that technology.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch








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                       Socorro An Incredible Admission

From: Robert Barrow <robertbarrow@usadatanet.net>
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 01:27:42 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 07:06:30 -0400
Subject: Socorro An Incredible Admission


As long as List participants seem bent on commemorating the
April 24, 1964 Socorro UFO incident, they might like to have a
look at my old PURSUIT article about it at the NICAP web site.

My article isn't important, but if List readers scroll way down,
they'll find a copy of a 1965 letter I received from the Air
Force - a letter that, incredibly, refers to Office Zamora's
UFO as a "vehicle."

http://www.nicap.dabsol.co.uk/zamora6.htm

Whether a standard shift, automatic or Zeta Reticuli particle
beam special millennium edition vehicle, of course, we know not.
But it seems evident that the denizens who dwell in official
channels were doing some very peculiar thinking way back then.


Robert Barrow
robertbarrow@usadatanet.net









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                         Re: 'The Wing' - Goldstein

From: Josh Goldstein >clearlight@t-online.de>
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 06:50:05 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 07:00:14 -0400
Subject: Re: 'The Wing' - Goldstein


 >From: Ian Rogers <onemoreshadow@rogers.com>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 22:33:45 -0400
 >Subject: Re: 'The Wing'

 >>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 17:26:16 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: 'The Wing'

 >>>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 08:55:19 -0800
 >>>Subject: Re: 'The Wing'

 ><snip>

 >>>Yes, the source of this webpage seems to be Dennis Bossack who I
 >>>investigated a couple of years ago and determined that he was a
 >>>fraud. I believe Stanton knows this person as well. He has
 >>>made many unsupported claims in the past.

 >>Everybody should realize that if somebody makes claims, is
 >>investigated and determined to be a fraud, all that does is
 >>enhance the fraud's credibility in some eyes.

 >>Those then rationalize it away as part of some evil gov. plot to
 >>discredit that person(s) how even though there is not a shred of
 >>verifiable proof, somehow, someway the evil govt purged the
 >>records and so on and on.

 >I agree. There is an element that exists that seems to label
 >those who expose frauds as government agents. Even those who
 >hold staunch skeptical views are sometimes accused of working
 >for the CIA, FBI, and so on. Why is that?

 >I always figured it was just the subject's last ditch attempt at
 >diverting attention away from themselves. "I'm not a fraud ....
 >uh ... you, you're just a government agent, sent to discredit
 >me! Yeah, that's it."

 >I get so frustrated I sometimes think I'd prefer to work for the
 >government. They're supposed to be the ones who have all the
 >answers. There's a good question, one we could all talk about:

 >Would you rather investigate UFOs your whole life as a civilian,
 >bearing in mind that you might live and die never knowing the
 >truth, or would you rather work for the government, have all the
 >answers, but have to play by their rules?

 >I think this is a good question, and I would really like to hear
 >opinions from others in Ufology.


As for me, if the truth is not out until I face death, I expect a
deathbed, above top secret briefing of all the government holds
back in every area of the deepest secrets. Other than that,
since I don't have a cosmic top secret level, I hope I can
secretly perfect invisibility.

There are some things, no matter how hard the demands that will
never be let out.


Josh










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                  Re: The Origin Of Biblical Tales - Stuart

From: Chaz Stuart <Daydisk2@webtv.net>
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 00:46:37 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 07:10:48 -0400
Subject: Re: The Origin Of Biblical Tales - Stuart


 >From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 05:00:35 +0200
 >Subject: Re: The Origins Of Biblical Tales

 >>From: Jason Martell <Jason@Xfacts.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 18:26:05 -0700
 >>Subject: The Origins Of Biblical Tales

 >SUMERIAN TABLETS - THE ORIGINS OF BIBLICAL TALES

<snip>

 >...the virgin birth of Jesus is a hand me down
 >from the earlier Egyptian stories. Oh no, I
 >don't believe that the Bible is the literal word
 >of God, I'm a heretic and I might spend a long
 >time cooking it up in Hell's kitchen (not the
 >New York one).

 >The end of the Mosaic covenant was when
 >Paul let two gentile (goyem) Roman soldiers
 >join the Synagogue of Jerusalem. They were
 >uncircumcised, which made them unclean
 >and in violation of Moses' covenant - no
 >uncircumcised goyem allowed. That started a
 >great upheaval because the new covenant,
 >later to be called the religion of Christ, was
 >trying to sell itself to the Jewish people.

<snip>

The above is but a tidbit from Josh Goldstein's latest,
misguided tirade against religion.

Although he certainly has a right to express his opinion, as a
Christian, I have the right to say that I am becoming just a
little irritated.

Additionally, as a UFO buff on this List, I wish that he would
stay on topic.

His assertion (one of many) that the Christians got their idea
for the virgin birth of Jesus from the Egyptians has nothing
whatsoever to do with the subject of UFOs.

Try to stay on topic, Josh, and take your rants on religion to
alt.atheism!

Thank you,

--Chaz









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                          Re: 'The Wing' - Hamilton

From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 05:21:44 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 10:49:47 -0400
Subject: Re: 'The Wing' - Hamilton


 >>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 17:26:16 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: 'The Wing'

 >>>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>>Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 08:55:19 -0800
 >>>Subject: Re: 'The Wing'

 ><snip>

 >>>Yes, the source of this webpage seems to be Dennis Bossack who I
 >>>investigated a couple of years ago and determined that he was a
 >>>fraud. I believe Stanton knows this person as well. He has
 >>>made many unsupported claims in the past.

 >>Everybody should realize that if somebody makes claims, is
 >>investigated and determined to be a fraud, all that does is
 >>enhance the fraud's credibility in some eyes.

 >>Those then rationalize it away as part of some evil gov. plot to
 >>discredit that person(s) how even though there is not a shred of
 >>verifiable proof, somehow, someway the evil govt purged the
 >>records and so on and on.

 >I agree. There is an element that exists that seems to label
 >those who expose frauds as government agents. Even those who
 >hold staunch skeptical views are sometimes accused of working
 >for the CIA, FBI, and so on. Why is that?

I am sure that others on this List have been accused of being
agents for the DIA, CIA, NRO, etc. I have not escaped that
allegation either.

The point is that Bossack has a history of making wild claims
and any investigator who wants to check this out may do so. To
begin, see:

http://www.100megsfree4.com/farshores/ufoboss.htm

This is how Bossack first came to public attention.

 >I always figured it was just the subject's last ditch attempt at
 >diverting attention away from themselves. "I'm not a fraud ....
 >uh ... you, you're just a government agent, sent to discredit
 >me! Yeah, that's it."

 >I get so frustrated I sometimes think I'd prefer to work for the
 >government. They're supposed to be the ones who have all the
 >answers. There's a good question, one we could all talk about:

 >Would you rather investigate UFOs your whole life as a civilian,
 >bearing in mind that you might live and die never knowing the
 >truth, or would you rather work for the government, have all the
 >answers, but have to play by their rules?

Well, let's see, as an NSA insider myself I might be biased -
nah, I would prefer being that civilian looking for the answers.


-Bill Hamilton







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                Re: 'Alien Autopsy' A 'Confession'? - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 10:05:20 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 10:53:55 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Alien Autopsy' A 'Confession'? - Kaeser


 >From: Gregory Gutierez <greguti@free.fr>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 09:52:21 +0200
 >Subject: Re: 'Alien Autopsy' A 'Confession'?

 >>From: James Easton <voyager@ukonline.co.uk>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 02:30:27 +0100
 >>Subject: Re: 'Alien Autopsy' A 'Confession'?

 >>Olaf Ittenbach was certainly responsible for a German TV
 >>attempted SFX recreation of an 'alien autopsy' - his credits
 >>include:

 >>1996, Roswell Alien Stern TV 16 mm, 20 min
 >>1996, Roswell Alien Report Video, 15 min.

 >>However, there's no material evidence he was involved in the
 >>original.
 >
 >Hello everyone,
 >
 >One must see the weird short movie 'Aftermath', by the Spanish
 >moviemaker Nacho Cerda, released in 1995. I heard Ittenbach was
 >the responsible for the SFX.

<snip>

 >James, did you see movies by Ittenbach? Is it so badly done?

 >This is just my own personal opinion, but I don't find the
 >Roswell footage way too subtle at all for a gore moviemaker. On
 >the contrary, a specialist of gore productions sounds like a
 >good candidate for such a footage.

The question was never whether or not the AA "film" could be
faked, but really a question as to why it was portrayed the way
that it was if it was, indeed, faked.

I have seen a half dozen attempted re-creations of the AA 'film'
and they all suffer from the problem of trying to copy someone
else's work.  But even if you were to exactly re-create the
original 'film', would that really prove that the original was a
fake as well? If we are trying to prove that the AA 'film'
might have been faked, then I think nearly everyone could agree
that it could (given time, money, and expertise).

Unfortunately, the controversy created by this alleged 'film'
will not be resolved until some sort of actual proof is
developed.  Even annecdotal confessions aren't enough to really
prove anything.


Steve








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                NIDS Investigates Nebraska Cattle Mutilations

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 11:02:14 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 11:02:14 -0400
Subject: NIDS Investigates Nebraska Cattle Mutilations



Source: The Omaha World-Herald - Nebraska

http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_np=0&u_pg=36&u_sid=726692

Published Tuesday
April 29, 2003

Reward grows in mutilation of cattle

By Paul Hammel

World-Herald Staff Writer

VALPARAISO, Neb. - A reward fund rose Monday to $6,000 and
investigators enlisted the help of a Las Vegas organization in
hopes of solving two mysterious cases of cattle mutilation
northwest of Lincoln.

Saunders County Sheriff Chuck Lacey said that, so far, there
were few clues about who killed and mutilated two 1,200-pound
cows and a bull calf at the Benes Cattle Co. on April 5 and
April 7.

Lacey and an official with the Las Vegas-based National
Institute for Discovery Science said the Valparaiso cases have
an advantage over dozens of other reported cases of cattle
mutilation - vehicle tracks and footprints.

"It's unusual in cases that we know of to find tracks of any
type," said Dr. Colm Kelleher, administrator of the 7-year-old
private science institute that investigates anomalies such as
cattle mutilations.

Kelleher said he is unaware that any case of cattle mutilation
has been solved since the incidents first made headlines in the
1970s.

"Tracks are a good start," he said. "So is the reward."

The $6,000 reward for information is being offered by Nebraska
Crime Stoppers, Saunders County Crime Stoppers, the Saunders
County Livestock Association, the Nebraska Cattlemen's
Association, and the Benes family. It is twice the initial
reward.

Lacey said the reward reflects how seriously the mutilations are
being treated by cattle producers.

"There's no brotherhood among burglars and thieves, so I can't
believe we don't have a constructive lead yet," he said. "Maybe
it's coming."

So far, Lacey said, he has gotten only one small lead.

"Mainly it's people from all parts of the United States telling
us it's the government . . . but nothing constructive," the
sheriff said. "We know it's people and they drive cars."

Three separate sets of footprints and vehicle tracks were found
in the snow on April 7, when a 2-year-old cow was found dead at
the Benes farm.

The animal appeared to have died of electrocution, and an
attempt had been made to cut off one of its teats.

Two days earlier, a cow and a bull calf were found dead in the
same pasture. The testicles, anus and meat from its hindquarters
were cut off the calf, which appeared to have had its blood
drained.

The cow, which appeared to have been electrocuted, had one teat
cut off.

The sheriff said the Las Vegas group may be able to shed more
light on how the cows were killed. Particular toxins, Lacey
said, have been associated with cattle mutilations.

Kelleher, whose organization investigates scientific anomalies
such as cattle mutilations and alleged UFO sightings, said his
group will analyze tissue samples from one of the dead cows as
well as photographs of the mutilated animals.

He said only minimal tests will be possible because the tissue
arrived so long after the incident.

Kelleher, a doctor of biochemistry, said the Valparaiso case is
intriguing because of the burns left in the cows' mouths and the
discovery of the tracks.

He said there is no proof that such mutilations are linked to
UFOs, but there was a rash of UFO sightings during some
mutilation cases in Montana in the 1970s.

Although he wouldn't rule out cult activity in the Valparaiso
case, Kelleher said previous mutilations have not been linked to
occult groups.

He said his group's goal is to investigate scientific anomalies
that mainstream organizations ignore in hopes that it will lead
to new discoveries.

Anyone with information about these crimes is asked to call
Crime Stoppers at (800) 422-1494.


[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]







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                   [canufo] Pilots See 'UFO' Over Ontario

From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@cc.umanitoba.ca>
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 09:51:55 -0500 (CDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 11:06:29 -0400
Subject: [canufo] Pilots See 'UFO' Over Ontario


I received info on a UFO seen over Ontario yesterday afternoon
(a daylight sighting) by several pilots.

================================================================

Date: 28 April 2003
Time: 2000Z

A pilot flying between Buffalo and London reported seeing a
"very large stationary metallic object beside the Moon, at a
high altitude." The pilot was flying at 43,000 feet and said the
object was "much higher." He watched it for at least 30 minutes.

ATC at Pearson [International in Toronto] noted that several
other pilots reported the same object.

================================================================

Doing a check on star charts for that time and date, it turns
out that good old Venus was within a few degrees of the Moon
right at that time, high in the sky. Normally inconspicuous,
it's likely that Venus was noticed because of its brightness and
position so close to the Moon at the time, even in the middle of
the day!

Cosmic salutations to you all,


Nobody in particular








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                     FOIA-Fee-Waiver Request - 04-20-03

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net>
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:58:42 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:15:57 -0400
Subject: FOIA-Fee-Waiver Request - 04-20-03


== No Tricks Here:  Just the Facts, Sir ==

To:   Mr. William W. Wolf
       (FOIA Appeals Officer for the Dept. of the Interior)
       osfoia@nbc.gov

From: George P. Hansen
       http://www.tricksterbook.com

Date: 29 April 2003

Re:   Larry W. Bryant's April 20, 2003, Appeal
       (No. 2003-151) of the DOI-denied
       FOIA-Fee-Waiver Request

For over a decade I have written on the government-UFO issue.

Larry Bryant has provided me (and many of my colleagues) with an
enormous amount of material, including declassified government
documents. He has played, and continues to play, a key role in
collecting, analyzing, and disseminating government-generated
material on this topic.

I hereby urge you to grant his appeal as soon as possible.

Further, I intend to have this memorandum submitted as evidence
for any forthcoming litigation on the merits of Mr. Bryant's
appeal.






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                     Re: Re: UFOs Over Cuba? - Ticchetti

From: Thiago Luiz Ticchetti <thiagolt@opengate.com.br>
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 14:07:28 -0300
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:19:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Re: UFOs Over Cuba? - Ticchetti

 >From: A. J. Gevaerd <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 06:49:51 -0300
 >Subject: Re: UFOs Over Cuba? - Gevaerd

<snip>

 >Hello Santiago, como estas hombre?

 >Yes, since Laughlin 2002... Thanks for the info you forwarded.

 >UFO activity in Cuba seems to follow the rules that prevail in
 >South and Central America: cases are many and very hot.

 >I believe that Ticchetti is producing a new article about it for
 >the UFO Magazine, since Cuban Ufology isn't very known to
 >Brazilian readers.

 >I wonder if we could have any Cuban dissident living anywhere
 >else other than the island? Of course, speaking freely about UFO
 >incidents there.


Thank you very much Gevaerd.

Yes, I am writing a new article to be published in the UFO
magazine Brazil. I have a lot of informations already.

I think that Cuba have a rich UFO events, but the government
politics don't leave us to know. it is something like happened
in former URSS. After the division of the republics a lot of
informations became known by the public.

Maybe someday the same can happen in Cuba.

Thank you.

Thiago Luiz Ticchetti
Vice-presidente da EBE-ET/RAB
Brasilia/DF
Brasil








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              Re: NIDS Investigates Nebraska Cattle Mutilations

From: Chaz Stuart <Daydisk2@webtv.net>
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 13:27:51 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:25:15 -0400
Subject: Re: NIDS Investigates Nebraska Cattle Mutilations


 >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >To: <- UFO UpDates Subscribers ->
 >Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 07:56:56 -0400
 >Subject: UFO UpDate: NIDS Investigates Nebraska Cattle Mutilations


 >Source: The Omaha World-Herald - Nebraska

 >http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_np=0&u_
 >pg=36&u_sid=726692

 >Published Tuesday

 >April 29, 2003

 >Reward grows in mutilation of cattle

 >By Paul Hammel

 >World-Herald Staff Writer


<snip>

 >"It's unusual in cases that we know of to find
 >tracks of any type," said Dr. Colm Kelleher,
 >administrator of the 7-year-old private science
 >institute that investigates anomalies such as
 >cattle mutilations.

<snip>

 >"Tracks are a good start," he said. "So is the
 >reward."

 >"Mainly it's people from all parts of the United
 >States telling us it's the government . . . but
 >we know it's people and they drive cars."

 >Three separate sets of footprints and vehicle
 >tracks were found in the snow on April 7,

<snip>

Actually, it may not be quite that simple. From reading various
articles on this case, I've been able to glean some additional
information.

First, tracks were not found at the site of the original
mutilations on April 5 where the cow and calf were found dead,
only at the second site. In the first case, genitals were
removed; in the second just one teat was partially severed.

Second, the vet who examined the dead cattle, expressed his
opinion that there were two separate culprits here. IOW, he
didn't think the same "people" were responsible for both sets of
killings. (See interview by LMH at Earthfiles.com)

Could it be that the killing and botched mutilation on April 7
when tracks were found was done by humans attempting a cover up
by leaving human type evidence?

Could the original killings have been done by "them."

Nah! I don't believe in conspiracies.  :-)


--Chaz







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                           Cameraman's Crash Site

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 11:43:36 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:27:57 -0400
Subject: Cameraman's Crash Site


EBK, Listers,

Last July, while on a visit to New Mexico, I located the
cameraman's crash site; and it's just where he said it would be.
It took my brother and I about four hours of searching. We used
topographical maps and the cameraman's directions and
descriptions.

My brother and I have been exploring the New Mexico desert since
we were teens. He still lives in Albuquerque; I lived there on
and off from 1957 to 1965, and attended UNM, and taught in
Albuquerque for a year. We are very familiar with the terrain.

This site, south-west of Socorro is easily reached by four-wheel
drive although we drove my brother's front wheel drive sedan.
But there were several times when I didn't think we'd make it
out without a tow, so four-wheel is advised.

The cameraman was correct when he stated that the site had been
very hot . The two cliff faces the craft impacted are covered
with a strange glass-like material and there are bits and pieces
of this material covering an area as large as three football
fields. The desert vegetation and trees are severely disrupted
and this fact is clearly seen. There is a half-burned cottonwood
tree about one hundred feet from the impact cliff, mute evidence
of the event. Those not familiar with the desert would not
understand what they were seeing, but if I were to point out the
disruption, it would be clear and obvious.

The walls of the cliffs consist of volcanic ash deposited
millions of years ago while extremely hot. The rock it became,
Rhyolite, is dense and loaded with various minerals including
gold, iron, iron pyrite, and copper and pockets of crystals.

My brother is a stubborn unbeliever in all things UFO,
paranormal or religious and was highly skeptical of my search
but after examining the site he had to agree that something
unusual had occurred.

He has a friend who is a geologist, (we both understand basic
geology, and knew the glass-like rocks were highly unusual) so
we took a sample to him for a superficial analysis.

He couldn't identify the material and was somewhat surprised
that he couldn't. He examined the strange material with a light
enhanced magnifying scope he had on his belt and just shook his
head: "I don't know what this".

I believe the cameraman's account so I felt we'd find the site
if we looked closely. In the desert, growth and change are
measured by millimeters and sixty years is a drop in the bucket
of time. The desert changes slowly and fire is seldom a factor
where only sparse grass grows with yards of space between clumps
of vegetation. At one time there was a very hot fire in this
secluded canyon.

I've returned seven times and explored the site thoroughly and
sent samples to other investigators and have tried to generate
interest in a careful, forensic exploration. Some glass-like
samples are being examined by physicists in Michigan but so far
no results. I have five excellent samples of the glass-like
material and would like to offer these samples to the list for
examination.


Ed








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                  Re: The Origin Of Biblical Tales - Young

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:02:55 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:50:49 -0400
Subject: Re: The Origin Of Biblical Tales - Young


 >From: Chaz Stuart <Daydisk2@webtv.net>
 >Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 00:46:37 -0500 (EST)
 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >Subject: Re: The Origin Of Biblical Tales

 >>The above is but a tidbit from Josh Goldstein's latest,
 >>misguided tirade against religion.

 >Although he certainly has a right to express his opinion, as a
 >Christian, I have the right to say that I am becoming just a
 >little irritated.

 >Additionally, as a UFO buff on this List, I wish that he would
 >stay on topic.

 >His assertion (one of many) that the Christians got their idea
 >for the virgin birth of Jesus from the Egyptians has nothing
 >whatsoever to do with the subject of UFOs.

 >Try to stay on topic, Josh, and take your rants on religion to
 >alt.atheism!


Chaz;

Oh please! Spare me your tales of irritation and don't complain
about off-topic stuff when you just don't like the commentary.
Find someplace else to censor. One should open their horizons
for all possibilities instead of harboring some kind of myopic,
emotional fixation on their own little beliefs. I for one found
Josh's rant a tad refreshing.

CYA

- KY







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                          Filer's Files #18 -- 2003

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 10:50:05 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 16:17:56 -0400
Subject: Filer's Files #18 -- 2003


Filer's Files #18 -- 2003 Skywatch Investigations.
George A. Filer, Director Mutual UFO Network Eastern
April 30, 2003, Majorstar@aol.com
Webmaster: Chuck Warren
My website is at: www.Georgefiler.com
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WORLDWIDE UFO SIGHTINGS SURPRISINGLY SLOW

The purpose of these files is to report the UFO eyewitness and
photo/video evidence that occurs on a daily basis around the
world and in space. UFO reports diminish as the Sun is racked by
powerful solar flares, SARS virus may have come from space,
Jupiter's moon Europa is covered with a layer of water that
might support life, Maine - flying triangle spotted, New York -
shape changing object photographed, Virginia - pilot sees shiny
metallic cone-shaped object flying at 200 feet, Tennessee -
daylight disk, Michigan - investigation uncovers fabrication of
UFO Landing, Teardrop light over Lake Michigan, Wisconsin - low
flashing lights, Texas - Chevron shape moves rapidly, Arizona -
two spherical daylight UFOs, California - daylight wobbling
silver craft, Washington - aircraft carrier size flying triangle
spotted, Canada - huge black triangle travels quickly, Chile -
UFO heads for pickup truck, England - white star like object
traveling at high speed, Scotland - large distant bright pink
cone shaped object, SRI Lanka UFO, Philippines - strange cigar-
shaped object, No confirmation from Russia of alleged UFO
crashed into Kaliningrad Harbor.

UFO REPORTS SHRINK AS POWERFUL SOLAR FLARES EXPLODE

Mitch Battros (ECTV) has been predicting heavy Sunspot activity
followed by powerful solar flares. On April 25, 2003, a third M-
Class flare fired away off the Sun and Sunspot count reached
171. The latest flares came from region 337, and have a 60%
chance of hitting Earth. M-Class flares create freak storms both
in space and on Earth where sudden temperature changes,
windstorms, and possible tornadoes often occur. It may take the
form wind-shears, or micro-burst. This is very much the same as
tornadoes, but without the funnel. This occurs as the result of
the jet-stream which usually resides at 29,000 feet, coming
'down to the deck' or near surface. Now here is yesterday's news
regarding a windstorm that had the devastation of a tornado, but
was not. They have now added a new word to go along with "wind-
shear" and "micro-burst." The new one is "straight-line winds."
All these new fancy words simply mean one thing. It is the newly
learned meteorologist trying to find definitions for something
that appears as a tornado, but does not have a funnel. This is
not a new phenomena but we are seeing it much more often. Our
Sun is in a solar cycle which occurs every 1,200 years or
perhaps a 12,000 year cycle. Solar activity is unusually high
with solar flares, coronal mass ejection's, and various forms of
charged particles. When this chain ejection's hits our Earth's
magnetic field, it warps around the Earth in a protective
umbrella. This nature defense protects the Earth from being
bombarded with supercharges electrical particles that could
devastate all electronic devices known to man. When the Earth's
magnetic field warps and deflects the solar storms, it pushes
down the jet-stream towards the surface of the Earth from 29,000
feet to around 300 feet which is exactly what happened in Texas
yesterday, and in Mississippi today. Equation: Sunspots =3D> Solar
Flares =3D> Magnetic Field Shift =3D> Shifting Ocean and Jet Stream
Currents =3D> Extreme Weather and Human Disruption. Thanks to
Mitch Battros, See article of devastation in Texas:
http://www.earthchangestv.com/secure/2003_articles/0403_articles
/0403

Editor's Note: There has been a sudden drop in the number of UFO
reports that may be related to the heavy solar activity.
Powerful storms slammed Mississippi, knocking out power to
thousands of homes and damaging a school, houses and businesses
just east of Jackson. Earthquakes in unusual locations are also
being. reported with a 4.9 EQ hit Alabama and a 3.7 earthquake
hit New Mexico. Can the sun cause Earthquakes?


SARS VIRUS MAY HAVE COME FROM SPACE

Whitley Strieber's "Unknown County" website reports that, "Two
British microbiologists say SARS may have come from space,
riding on a comet." Microbiologist Dr. Milton Wainwright says,
"Several aspects of the SARS outbreak appear to fit this general
scheme." Debris from a comet, including the SARS virus, could
have arrived in the stratosphere. It would have reached the
Himalayas, whose high peaks are on the edge of the stratosphere,
where particles would then descend to Earth. Then the Earth's
rotation and prevailing winds could have blown the virus into
China. A recent study of the atmosphere 25 miles into space
shows that about a ton of biological material arrives from space
every day. Wainwright says the evidence that SARS came from
space is the unique nature of the virus, the fact it was first
detected in China, the low rates of infection except through
close contact, and the failure to contain the epidemic.
Professor Chandra Wickramasinghe says, "We found huge amounts of
bacteria and possibly viruses in space." He thinks there should
be global monitoring of the upper atmosphere to detect new
viruses. He says, "If it is in the upper atmosphere, it is only
a matter of time before it reaches the ground. The pattern of
spread suggests this could also occur over the Swiss Alps, but
the way the Earth turns means that regions to the east of the
Alps, such as Russia, will tend to be infected. We should keep a
watch on new cases of SARS. If they are not connected with known
cases, then there's a real possibility that it has come from
space." SARS virus is said to be deadlier than AIDS.
http://www.unknowncountry.com/news/?id=3D2649 25-Apr-2003

SATURN'S TITAN IS COVERED BY WATER, MAYBE LIFE EXISTS?

Years ago we reported large concentrations of water on Mars.
Last week, we reported that Jupiter's moon Europa is covered
with a layer of water. This week surprising new findings suggest
Saturn's giant moon might be covered with water ice, instead of
seas of organic liquids or frozen organic solids blanketing
Titan as expected, scientists reported. "This moon is a
surprising beast," lead researcher Caitlin Griffith, planetary
scientist at the University of Arizona, told United Press
International. NASA researchers hope the discovery will help
shed light on how organic chemistry has evolved in the solar
system. "People hope this might tell us what conditions were
like very long ago on Earth," planetary scientist John Pearl of
NASA Goddard Space Flight Center. The findings "are relevant to
speculations as to whether or not life does or has existed on or
in Titan," add Dennis Matson, NASA's Cassini Project chief
scientist in Pasadena. The Cassini spacecraft, launched in
October 1997, is due to rendezvous with the sixth planet from
the sun and its moons in July 2004. Titan is huge, larger than
Mercury and heavier than Pluto. Its nigh-impenetrable veil of
smog, methane, carbon monoxide and nitrogen gas is "10 times
thicker than that of Earth's," Griffith explained. The
atmosphere has rendered Titan a frustrating mystery to
scientists. "Very little is known about it," she added. As
massive as Titan is, researchers knew the moon could not be a
dense ball of rock like Earth's moon. Because investigators had
detected a large amount of methane and other hydrocarbons in
Titan's atmosphere, "we expected to find large quantities of
liquid or frozen hydrocarbons on the surface," according to
planetary scientist Dale Cruikshank of NASA Ames Research Center
in California. In findings appearing April 25 in the journal
Science, Griffith and an international research team discovered
water ice blanketing Titan instead. "Ice was not expected by
most of us," said Cruikshank. "I'm delighted to see this work
come out." Although Titan's haze keeps most light from reaching
its surface, there are extremely narrow bands of radio waves in
the electromagnetic spectrum that can penetrate. "They're
essentially windows into the atmosphere," Griffith said.
Sensitive new instruments at the United Kingdom Infrared
Telescope and NASA's Infrared Telescope Facility allowed the
researchers to gaze through all these windows. The pattern of
radio waves reflected and absorbed from Titan suggests frozen
water is exposed on the surface. Thanks to Charles Choi, UPI
Science News.

MAINE - FLYING TRIANGLE FLIES OVER

PORTLAND -- The witness was driving on a road in a wooded area
on April 3, 2003, just outside of the city with his girlfriend,
when they both observed strange and unusual lights in the sky
just off the road at 12:46 AM. The witness states, "The lights
were on an object like I have never seen before in my life just
hovering in the sky." There were three bright lights with one
light on each corner of what ever it was, making the shape of
what appeared to look like a flying triangle. I pulled my
vehicle over to the side of the road to observe it further. We
witnessed the triangle for about five minutes. The object had no
sound what so ever and thought this to be very strange. I'm also
aware of a military base in the area and it could be possible
that they were testing something. Thanks to Peter Davenport
www.UFOCENTER.com

NEW YORK SHAPE CHANGING OBJECT PHOTOGRAPHED

WINDSOR -- On April 3, 2003, an object was seen that kept
changing shape from round to cigar shaped, then almost like a
diamond shape. It then split apart and then came back together
at 11:59 PM. It started as two objects after circling a military
jet. I have about 122 digital pictures of the jet and UFOs. I
contacted the Air Force, described what I saw and they said no
type of aircraft like that exists. The military jet after being
circled rather quickly by them made a very sharp turn. This
occurred in the middle of the day. We are in a rather remote
area in a wooded hills near the Pennsylvania border. The object
made no sound. The radio was on and the AM band got static for a
few minutes as the object flew near. Thanks to Peter Davenport
www.UFOCENTER.com

VIRGINIA - PILOT SEES METALLIC CONE-SHAPED OBJECT

WINCHESTER -- The observer was driving eastward on Highway 7 in
a rural area at 5:45 PM, on March 27, 2003, about halfway
between Winchester and Berryville. The witness states, "My wife
and I both saw an extremely shiny metallic-looking object flying
northward about one mile ahead of us. The object was traveling
at about 400- 500 mph, based on my experience as a licensed
airplane pilot. It was very low, only about 200 feet above the
tree tops. It was difficult for me to determine a distinct
shape, but my wife, who had more time to observe the object
because I was driving, said it was cone-shaped or bullet-shaped.
The object traveled in a straight line and at constant altitude
until it was no longer visible over the tree-lined horizon after
observing it for about 10 seconds. We heard no sound. Thanks to
www.UFOCENTER.com

TENNESSEE DAYLIGHT DISK

FRANKLIN -- On April 7, 2003, a family was driving home from the
grocery store when they saw an UFO out the side window at 2:30
PM, on a sunny day. The witness states, "My Mom, my two brothers
and one sister and I were driving along in our van watching an
airplane making contrails, when I noticed a little white dot in
the sky." It was going faster then the airplane and was lower to
the horizon, too. It was pretty far behind the airplane, so I
don't know if it was chasing it or not. It looked like it was
spinning. It was kind of a shiny white, and was an oval disk
shape. I couldn't tell if it made a sound or not because the van
was making to much noise to hear. We were driving east and I was
looking out the window north. It was about three miles east of
Franklin, and we watched it for about 6 or 7 seconds before it
disappeared behind a cloud. NUFORC Note: We spoke with this
witness and he sounded to us to be quite credible. PD

MICHIGAN - INVESTIGATION UNCOVERS FABRICATION

Vicky Weagle, in last week's Filer's Files your reported, "Last
night, April 22, 2003, I was told about a sighting where a UFO
was landing in the field near a witnesses house in Michigan. He
saw a green flashing light move closer to his position and
apparently land. Vicky has again interviewed the witness known
as fightclubmonkey: "Who now claims, to tell the truth, it was
my friend who was telling me that this happened to him, but
later he told me he was joking." Thanks to: Vicky Weagle
aka/UFOOpenline

Editor's Note: Investigators were preparing to spend a great
deal of their own money and time to investigate this landing
report. Fortunately, Vicky found out the truth before this
happened. The public is often unaware that all funding for
investigation is provided by the investigators themselves. I'm
sorry to say, that I'm not aware of any UFO organization that
has more resources than my local Riviera Pizza Restaurant.

TEARDROP LIGHT OVER LAKE MICHIGAN

MANISTIQUE -- The witness noticed a very large object compared
to anything else in the sky. He states, "It was a perfectly
round bright red circle with a tapering green tail." The
sighting took place at 1 AM, against a clear black night sky
over Lake Michigan, on March 27, 2003. It was due south of
Manistique Harbor and was very bright and very distinct. It had
clean edges, with no glow or haze. It appeared to be traveling
straight down, and suddenly disappeared. It was very high above
horizon, and appeared large, but I could not tell its true size
or distance.

CAPAC -- The witness reports, "I woke up to take a pain reliever
at midnight, turned on the TV and sat on the living room couch
facing the window, when a creature ran across my porch on March
28, 2003." I quickly jumped up and looked out the door to see it
run around the corner of my house on the porch. It was of
average height, but had abnormally long arms. Its arms and legs
were somewhat spiny and it had a larger than normal bald head. I
did not get a good look at the face but I could tell that it was
not human. Within a few seconds of this, the lights went out and
I could see two large blue spotlights in the sky moving as if it
was searching for something. The spotlights were in the field
across from me about 800 feet. As they moved away, the power
came back on. This morning I called my friend and she said, "Her
electricity and lights had gone off and she also saw the blue
lights in the sky. She then told me that people around here
don't talk about these things. Thanks to Peter Davenport
www.UFOCENTER.com

TEXAS - OBJECT HAVING 'V' CHEVRON SHAPE MOVED RAPIDLY

DALLAS -- The witness reports sighting a disk shaped UFO in the
distance on March 30, 2003, at 15:45 PM. The disk hovered in the
distance for about five minutes before leaving.

COLLEGE STATION -- On April 20, 2003, the witness was standing
outside under cloudy skies when he spotted a craft moving south
to north at 11:43 PM. The eyewitness states, "The craft was very
large with white lights along the leading edge; and the distance
from wing tip to wing tip was roughly 250 to 300 feet. It was
moving at rapid pace for 3 - 4 seconds below the cloud cover and
turned due east maintaining shape and configuration and vanished
without making any sound as it flew into the clouds. Thanks to
Peter Davenport www.UFOCENTER.com

ARIZONA - TWO SPHERICAL DAYLIGHT UFOs

TUCSON INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT -- The spectator was waiting for
her flight, looking out the north windows and saw an airliner
about 30,000 to 35,000 feet up flying east. She reports, "The
jet was at a more northeasterly point on its path when the two
spheres appeared to pop out of the blue lower to and behind the
airliner by the Catalina Mountain peaks from 2:00 to 2:04 PM, in
the afternoon on March 31, 2003." The spheres dropped down a
bit, seemed to stay still for some seconds, and were moving
slower than the jet. They also moved in an easterly path with
the higher sphere disappearing about 30 seconds after first
noticing the UFO. The witness who has excellent credentials
states, "When these objects suddenly appeared, I was surprised
at their spherical shape and the shape of the jet was clearly
recognizable, but these objects were not recognizable as any
known aircraft." I called over to a woman in the room to come
see this, and she saw the two spheres, the jet, and the one
sphere disappear and the jet fly out of her sight to the east
with the second object also having disappeared before the jet
was out of sight.

The spheres were the same size, and the size of a lower case "o"
. The spheres appeared as white but also illuminated uniformly
from within--not as reflected light, no flashing light, or
lights. The spheres did not glow. The suddenly appeared in mid
air literally out of the blue. The objects were not in any
formation. One sphere was higher in the sky and to the left of
the lower sphere.

((NUFORC Note: The witness who submitted this report is well
known to us, she has had considerable exposure to the subject of
Ufology, and we consider her to be unusually reliable. PD))

CALIFORNIA - DAYLIGHT WOBBLING SILVER CRAFT SEEN

CARLSBAD -- The eyewitness was driving one mile east of
Interstate 5 on Palomar Airport Road. at 2 PM, when he looked to
his left and saw a triangular craft wobbling and flying slowly
at about 40 mph toward the south. The flying triangle was about
three hundred feet above the landscape on March 26, 2003. The
craft looked like it was totally stainless steel, and had no
visible windows. The witness states, "It suddenly tilted and I
could see the whole tail edge was lit with a very bright light,
like the lights of a night baseball game." There were no clouds
in the sky and the craft just disappeared in one-second though
it was no more than a half mile away. There was no sound from
the craft.

*Note about five years ago while driving at night in Carlsbad my
wife and I saw a bright comet like fireball emitting splashes of
bright light to its rear traveling about 50 mph in a
southeasterly direction towards Rancho Santa Fe going cross
country following the contours of the land. There was no road
that it followed. This was four miles from the above sighting.
www.UFOCENTER.com

WASHINGTON - AIRCRAFT CARRIER FLYING TRIANGLE

STANWOOD -- At 8:30 PM, the onlooker saw a huge triangle shaped
craft going from north to south from his living room window on
March 30, 2003. The witness stated, The flying triangle was the
size of an aircraft carrier and looked to be traveling in and
out of the cloud cover at about 12,000 feet!" There were three
white lights that each looked the size of the moon. It was
moving very slow with no noise. I was looking to see if it was
going to appear from around my tree but it vanished in thin air.
My dog did not bark and even the frogs kept up their noise.

MORTON -- Several days earlier, two observers had the sighting
of a UFO, that was about half the size of the moon. The
observers are a 20-year-old server at a restaurant and her
boyfriend a college educated 31-year-old worker in construction.
They were driving on Highway 12, just west of Morton at 3:50 AM,
on March 23, 3003, when they saw a cloud of smoke with an
electric blue pulsating sphere shining from within. The witness
said, "The driver, noticed my head movements, and looked skyward
at the object and said, "Do you see that?" I responded, "Yes".
The lights and "smoke" moved around, constantly shifting its
shape. The objects size appeared to be massive. It was about
one-half the size of the moon. The object held its position high
in the eastern sky for one or two seconds. It quickly moved to
the south a short distance, stopped, and changed course several
times before flying west at an incredible speed. This
object/light was not a reflection of light on the cloud, like a
beacon. It was coming from within or behind the cloud. An
electric blue light was visibly pulsating behind a wispy cloud,
much like the model atom I have seen with two electrons rapidly
rotating around the nucleus. The object appeared to be creating
its own black cloud to shield its light. I was deeply awed and
scared at this point.

The object spastically moved five degrees to the south, then
northeast, then up to create a tight triangle type movement. It
then shook spastically once again and flew away rapidly directly
(west) over our heads. I have never seen anything move like that
and had keen sense that this object was observing me as I
observed it. The moment I panicked and my heart jumped into my
throat, was the same moment the object spastically moved and
flew away. When the object noticed we were watching it, it flew
away. Both of us were very scared. Thanks to Peter Davenport
www.UFOCENTER.com

CANADA HUGE BLACK TRIANGLE TRAVELS QUICKLY

COQUITLAM, BC -- The witness who reported the sighting had just
stepped outside to have a cigarette and said he noticed this
"thing" out of the corner of his eye on March 25, 2003, at 8:55
PM. The witness said the craft was seen just above the clouds
after it broke into a clearing in the night sky. He described
the object as being very large, black, and triangular in shape
with three points of light on each of the objects tips. Also
noted about the object was that it moved very fast and was
totally silent. The craft was flying roughly east to west. The
object was seen just above the cloud cover (at 11,000 feet
according the weather channel.) It then broke into the clear
sky. The witness was located near Burnaby Mountain over the 401
Freeway. The witness says, "I was shocked at what I was seeing,
plus its tremendous size, you could place three jumbo jets into
the object easily." Thanks to Brian Vike, Canada UFO Research
Org. hbccufo@telus.net,
http://www.geocities.com/ufologia_canadiana/BC2002sightings.html
 >

CHILE -UFO HEADS FOR PICKUP TRUCK

SANTIAGO - Electrical engineer Roberto Caceres, 36, lived
through a terrifying experience last February in Chile's 9th
Region. For 15 minutes he was followed by a light that caused
him to lose control of his vehicle momentarily. Once a year he
drives to the country's southern reaches to make contacts for
his electrical appliance store. Last February, he was driving to
the small town of Freire. He states, " I was driving along very
calmly. Some 15 minutes from Temuco, I saw a strange white light
on my right that was matching my speed. I thought it was the
train, but it wasn't and in a matter of seconds that light
crossed right in front of my pickup truck. The UFO headed for my
truck. I swerved to avoid it several times. It nearly hit me. It
must have been the shape of a football. But I don't think it had
a defined body--it was pure light. But it moved at incredible
speeds. It wasn't anything known. Thanks to Scott Corrales, IHU.
translation (C) 2003 and Christian Riffo and Guillermo Gimenez

ENGLAND - WHITE STAR LIKE OBJECT TRAVELING AT SPEED

NEW BRIGHTON -- The spectator reports seeing a star like object
moving from the west to the east on March 30, 2003, at
approximately 8:05 PM. It was traveling in a perfectly straight
line at speed and there was no sound whatsoever. ((NUFORC Note:
We observe that the International Space Station passed just
south of the UK, traveling from west to east, at 20:52-22:58
hours on this date. For ground track details see,
http://www.Heavens-Above.com ((The witness may have observed the
ISS? PD))

SCOTLAND - LARGE BRIGHT PINK CONE SHAPED OBJECT

LOANHEAD -- On Mother's Day, March 30, 2003, the witness and his
Mother were near Edinburgh and looked out the upstairs rear
window overlooking the Moorfoot Hills, when they noticed
fireworks fairly high in the not so distant sky at 2:27 AM. It
was more like a flare, as the extremely bright pink glow did not
fade at all. It stayed stationary in the sky about one mile
away. The witness states, "My Mum and I saw a glowing bright
pink object float slowly to the ground and pass behind the
horizon, after a few minutes in the same direction, we saw a
very bright blue flashing light like the type used on a police
car." It just seemed like a blue "earthly light" flashing
brightly in the distance. But the previous pink light was far
from that, we originally thought it may have been. It was
completely silent. This all lasted about twenty seconds, but was
definitely something we had never seen before. Thanks to Peter
Davenport www.UFOCENTER.com

ITALY - DISCOVERS THREE VERY ANCIENT PYRAMIDS

MONTEVECCHIA PYRAMIDS -- Three ancient pyramids were discovered
by satellite and aerial imagery in Northern Italy, in the town
of Montevecchia (40 km from Milan). They are the first pyramids
ever discovered in Italy and the dimensions are quite
impressive; the highest pyramid is 150 meters tall. They are
stone buildings, as recent excavations have proved. They are now
completely covered by ground and vegetation, so that they now
look like hills. The inclination degree of all the three
pyramids is 42/43=B0 and there is a perfect alignment with the
Orion constellation and many similarities to the Egyptian
pyramids. "Their age is still unknown but they are surely older
than 3000 years. Nothing was found nearby which may help to date
the structures. The people who lived there were mainly gatherers
and hunters. Pictures at:
http://www.lombardiainrete.it/turismo/Storico/articolo.asp?Id=3D12
7 Thanks to Marco V. (Varese, and Farshores - Worldwide
Anomalous Phenomena Resource

RUSSIAN REPORTS SAY ITS UNLIKELY THAT A UFO CRASHED

KALININGRAD HARBOR -- Last week, we reported an unconfirmed
report of a flying triangle crashing into the harbor. "I cannot
either confirm, or deny, that the article is accurate, but I
seriously doubt that it is. We, and other UFO investigators,
almost certainly would have been inundated with reports and
video, if it had occurred. The issue about radiation, together
with the multiple misspellings of Russian words, makes it look a
bit bogus to us. By the way, that should read "Kaliningrad,"
which was mispelled. Also, it should be a "Sovrimenni" class
ship, not "sovriminni." Had that article originated from Russia,
the errors probably would not have occurred. Going to
www.wintersteel.com also pulls up some more information, but in
no way enough to confirm or deny the story that a UFO allegedly
crashed April 18th, off the coast of Kaliningrad in the Baltic
Sea, and was witnessed by the Russian Navy. Russian State TV
crew according to the story, got the fly-over and crash on video
tape, but nothing has been released. Thanks to Skywatch
International

SRI LANKA THE UFO

COLOMBO -- On April 17, 2003, the witnesses spotted a fast
moving light or disk flying horizontally to the right and then
to the left. It was Good Thursday at 8:05 PM, AM. It is unknown
where they went to. When it was first observed about 60 degrees
high in the southern sky, it was moving in a shaky manner. It
began to go away, but then came towards the land side. The
object was luminous with a green/blue color and beam. After
about three seconds it began to run towards the opposite side.
It flew higher and flew to its highest point, moved to both the
right and left sides and suddenly disappeared. Thanks to Peter
Davenport www.UFOCENTER.com

PHILIPPINES - STRANGE CIGAR-SHAPED OBJECT

IRIGA CITY -- Eye witnesses report seeing two strange cigar-
shaped objects flying in the sky just above Mount Asog on March
29, 2003. The cigar changed color alternately from yellow to
blue then to red. Then after a few minutes of observation from
about five kilometers, those two strange cigar-shaped objects
disappeared in the clouds at 2:00 AM. Thanks to Peter Davenport
www.UFOCENTER.com

GRAPES AND OPC-3 SECRET TO LONG LIFE

If you want to keep your heart strong, get your fill of grapes.
Like wine, red and green grapes contain disease-fighting
according to the study by the Cardiovascular Research Center at
the University of Connecticut Health Center. Polyphenols are
antioxidants that help keep the body free of oxidative stress, a
major cause of cardiovascular disease, say Dipak K. Das, Ph.D.,
lead study author and director. In the studies grapes provided
improved blood flow and heart-pumping capacity: they also
reduced the area of tissue damage after a heart attack. To get
these cardio-protection savor a clump of 12 to 15 grapes four
times a week. My family was having serious allergy, and
pollution associated illnesses. I asked a Medical Doctor friend
what he would recommend, and he told me he treats 62 different
ailments such as allergies, heart and various breathing problems
with amazing success using Isotonix OPC-3. You can purchase
antioxidants Isotonix OPC-3 for about a dollar a day.

You can lose weight Ephedra Free at: lose weight . For the
latest in anti-aging technology and HGH enhancement see: Anti-
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MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative
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Filer's Files is copyrighted 2003 by George A. Filer, all rights
reserved. Readers may post the COMPLETE files on their Web Sites
if they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list
the date of issue. These reports and comments are not
necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON viewpoint. Send your letters to
Majorstar@aol.com. Sending mail automatically grants permission
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   UFO UpDates
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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Apr > Apr 30

                     Re: SCI FI Channel Statement - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 22:15:21 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:54:55 -0400
Subject: Re: SCI FI Channel Statement - Hall


 >From: Michel M. Deschamps <ufoman@ican.net>
 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
 >Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 01:11:20 -0400
 >Subject: Re: SCI FI Channel Statement

 >>From: Tom King <tomking2030@hotmail.com>
 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
 >>Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 18:04:13 +0000
 >>Subject: Re: SCI FI Channel Statement

 >>If I see any more sleezy shows like what I saw on Sci-Fi last
 >>week then I'll put Sci-Fi on my national "Do not call list"
 >>along with TLC, DSC, and any other network that burnt bridges
 >>all over the UFO community.

 >>That show on Tuesday was the worst piece of garbage ever put on
 >>TV in the history of television. It certainly made 'Plan 9 From
 >>Outer Space' the 2nd worst production of all time. I thought
 >>there were standards for putting shows on TV. The two images
 >>dissolved over each other made me want to puke. Even cable
 >>access TV would have turned down a terrible production like
 >>that. It is sad to see the Bionic Man stoop to such low levels
 >>to make a buck.

 >>Productions on Sci-Fi can only get better from here after they
 >>hit rock bottom.

 >>Why don't Sci-Fi bring back Sightings and Tim White?

 >I concur with Tom.

 >Bring back 'Sightings' and Tim White... the most top-notch and
 >un-parallelled reporting on the subject ever done on television,
 >so far... it's my all-time favorite "documentary" program.....


Michel, Tom, and Listers:

Within the past few days I received a letter from an outfit
called "First Television" in Los Angeles, Calif., stating that
they were producing a new show called "Unexplained Mysteries"
which (they said) "is an updated version of 'Sightings'." They
enclosed a release form which they asked me to sign so they
could use one (unspecified) of the many "Sightings" interviews I
did in the past. "Sightings" always treated me fairly, and
generally did good quality work on their UFO segments.

I have declined to sign the release on several grounds,
primarily no offer of compensation and objections to their
request for carte blanche permission to do anything they damn
well please with the interview(s) I did 5 or more years ago
while I have no say whatsoever about which one(s), how they are
edited, or what context thet are placed in. Sorry, I am no
longer contributing freebies to profit-making outfits who
exploit me as they please and allow me nothing in return. They
seem to think that I (we) should be pleased to appear on their
programs regardless of any other considerations, but they are
very wrong at least in my case.


  - Dick Hall