The UFO UpDates Archive
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul

                          UFO UpDates Mailing List
                                  Jul 2003

  Jul 1:

   FOX News Watch Suppressing UFO Disclosure? - UFO UpDates - Toronto [94]
   Re: Out Of The Blue On Sci-Fi - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [69]
   Re: Largest UFO Database In The World? - LeFevre - Charlette LeFevre
   [26]
   Rendlesham UFO lights Were A 'Prank'? - Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas [39]
   New California Crop Circle - Chaz Stuart [10]
   Re: FOX News Watch Suppressing UFO Disclosure? - - Steven Kaeser [38]
   - P-47 - Re: Rendlesham UFO lights Were A 'Prank'? - David Clarke [47]
   CANUFO: Tonight Larry King On Roswell - Stan Friedman [6]
   Mystery In The Wheat Field - UFO UpDates - Toronto [65]

  Jul 2:

   Filer's Files #27 -- 2003 - George A. Filer [538]
   Re: Largest UFO Database In The World? - Hatch - Larry Hatch [18]
   Disclosure Australia Announcement - 02 - Diane Harrison - AUFORN [31]
   Re: Electrolyte Imbalances In The Abductee - Velez - John Velez [63]
   Re: Out Of The Blue On Sci-Fi - Velez - John Velez [29]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 24 - John Hayes [277]
   'Crop Circles: Signs of Contact' A Review - Mac Tonnies [36]
   UFO Photographed Over Mexico City - Scott Corrales [16]
   Mars Photos From Dr. Tom Van Flandern - Eleanor White [28]
   Website Of UFO Cult In Brazil - Charlette LeFevre [11]
   Disclosure Dialogue #01-05 - Victor Viggiani [245]
   'Larry King Live' On Roswell - Bill Hamilton [31]
   Speaking Of 'Non-Disclosure' - Eleanor White [5]
   3 UFOs Seen & Videoed Over Argentina - Scott Corrales [48]
   Re: Largest UFO Database In The World? - Bill Hamilton [4]
   Transcript CNN's 'Do UFOs Exist?' - Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas [807]
   BBC's UFO Quiz - Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas [2]
   Crop Circles Work Of Aliens Or Hoaxers? - Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas
   [162]
   Roswell Set For Its Annual UFO Festival - Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas
   [40]
   Daily Mail Bentwaters Article - Nick Pope [45]

  Jul 3:

   Re: Electrolyte Imbalances In The Abductee - Mac Tonnies [10]
   Re: Mars Photos From Dr. Tom Van Flandern - Mac Tonnies [7]
   More Red Orbs In Wise County - Terry Groff [32]
   Re: UFO Conference in Halifax, Nova Scotia - Fern Belzil [11]
   Re: Electrolyte Imbalances In The Abductee - Eric Jacobson [18]
   Re: Daily Mail Bentwaters Article - Joe McGonagle [48]
   Signs? - Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas [105]
   Re: 'Larry King Live' On Roswell - Robert Gates [29]
   Re: Speaking Of 'Non-Disclosure' - Gildas Bourdais [6]
   Re: Signs? - Greg Sandow [111]
   Re: Mars Photos From Dr. Tom Van Flandern - Ray Stanford [19]
   Secrecy News -- 07/03/03 - Steven Aftergood [153]
   Re: Crop Circles Work Of Aliens Or Hoaxers? - Max Burns [25]
   Re: Daily Mail Bentwaters Article - Max Burns [5]
   Dayton Held Part Of Roswell UFO Mystery - Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas
   [17]
   Blue Book UFO Unknowns On NIDS Site - Colm Kelleher [138]
   Ardmore Tennessee Report - 06-03 - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [125]
   Strange Days... Indeed July 5, 2003 - Wendy Connors [7]
   Bentwaters Hoax Claims - Nick Pope [12]
   Re: Mars Photos From Dr. Tom Van Flandern - Eleanor White [4]
   Re: Speaking Of 'Non-Disclosure' - Eleanor White [10]
   Re: Speaking of 'Non-Disclosure' - Colm Kelleher [19]
   Re: Mars Photos From Dr. Tom Van Flandern - Mac Tonnies [81]
   Re: Mars Photos From Dr. Tom Van Flandern - Mac Tonnies [19]

  Jul 4:

   UC Berkeley-Led Team Probes for Martians - Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas
   [24]
   Re: Mars Photos From Dr. Tom Van Flandern - Betsy Sinkey [11]
   It Does Not 'Rain Rocks' In Brazil - A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO [42]
   'Mysterious' Rocks Common in Brazil - Charlette LeFevre [36]
   Re: Speaking of 'Non-Disclosure' - Larry Hatch [50]
   Watching The Skies Over Sudbury - UFO UpDates - Toronto [107]
   Re: Speaking of 'Non-Disclosure' - Eleanor White [12]
   Re: Mars Photos From Dr. Tom Van Flandern - Ray Stanford [9]
   Re: UC Berkeley-Led Team Probes For Martians - GT McCoy [21]
   Re: 'Mysterious' Rocks Common In Brazil - Ray Stanford [40]
   Re: Mars Photos From Dr. Tom Van Flandern - Eleanor White [20]
   Re: Speaking Of 'Non-Disclosure' - John Velez [22]
   UFORC [was: Speaking of 'Non-Disclosure'] - Paul Anderson [53]
   Re: A Very Ambitious Project - Daniel Guenther [106]
   Re: Speaking of 'Non-Disclosure' - Steven Kaeser [47]
   Hello, E.T.! Roswell Calling! - UFO UpDates - Toronto [52]
   Space Aliens? In Solano? - UFO UpDates - Toronto [76]
   Roswell Awaits Thousands Of 'Disc' Jockeys - UFO UpDates - Toronto [43]
   Larry King Talks Aliens - UFO UpDates - Toronto [69]
   UFO Convention Lands In Dearborn - UFO UpDates - Toronto [47]
   Re: Speaking Of 'Non-Disclosure' - Eleanor White [22]
   Re: UFORC - Larry Hatch [11]
   Re: Mars Photos From Dr. Tom Van Flandern - Mac Tonnies [12]
   Re: Mars Photos From Dr. Tom Van Flandern - Tonnies - Mac Tonnies [12]
   Leir & 'Implants' [Was: Speaking of - John Velez [33]

  Jul 5:

   Re: UFORC - Hatch - Paul Anderson [36]
   Millennium Disclosure - Chris Evans [36]
   Punch Biopsy/Involuntary Sampling Ottawa Feb-03 - Brian Vike - HBCCUFO
   [62]
   Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Stevenson - Colin Stevenson [11]
   Re: A Very Ambitious Project - Beau - Jerome Beau [74]
   Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Bourdais - Gildas Bourdais [22]
   Rendlesham UFO 'Hoax' - Georgina Bruni [173]
   Re: UFORC - Hatch - Larry Hatch [27]
   Re: Rendlesham UFO Hoax - Kelly - James Kelly [28]

  Jul 6:

   Re: UFORC - LeFevre - Charlette LeFevre [15]
   Re: UFO Conference in Halifax, Nova Scotia - - Michel M. Deschamps [13]
   Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens - David Clarke [75]
   Crop Circles Draw Curious To Fairfield - Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas
   [55]
   Re: Rendlesham UFO 'Hoax' - Groff - Terry Groff [11]
   Re: A Very Ambitious Project - Groff - Terry Groff [25]
   Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Evans - Chris Evans [11]

  Jul 7:

   Re: STS-48 Time Tags Explained - Fleming - Lan Fleming [63]
   Re: 'Mysterious' Rocks Common In Brazil - Gevaerd - A. J. Gevaerd -
   Revista UFO [29]
   Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Velez - John Velez [45]
   Re: Punch Biopsy/Involuntary Sampling Ottawa - John Velez [19]
   UFOs vs. The Bible - UFO UpDates - Toronto [119]
   CIA's Cover Blown? Make Up Something About UFOs - UFO UpDates - Toronto
   [146]
   Monument Commemorates Roswell UFO Crash - UFO UpDates - Toronto [21]
   Another UFO Excuse? - GT McCoy [6]
   Conventioneers Share Alien Theories - UFO UpDates - Toronto [73]
   Re: UFO Conference in Halifax, Nova Scotia - - Charlette LeFevre [22]
   Re: UFOs vs. The Bible - Carr - Scott Carr [8]
   Italian UFO Newsflash No. 400 - Edoardo Russo [103]
   Secrecy News -- 07/07/03 - Steven Aftergood [103]
   Re: STS-48 Time Tags Explained - Corbett - Daniel Corbett [15]
   Re: A Very Ambitious Project - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [18]
   Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Evans - Chris Evans [30]
   Re: Rendlesham UFO 'Hoax' - Stedman - Gary Stedman [85]
   Re: A Very Ambitious Project - Beau - Jerome Beau [32]
   Re: A Very Ambitious Project - Groff - Terry Groff [14]
   Michigan & Extraterrestrials? - Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas [5]
   The Roswell Grays? - Loren Coleman [28]
   Re: UFOs vs. The Bible - Stevenson - Colin Stevenson [20]
   Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens - Pope - Nick Pope [9]

  Jul 8:

   Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [20]
   Re: Michigan & Extraterrestrials? - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [35]
   Re: Michigan & Extraterrestrials? - Westover - Jeff Westover [29]
   Re: Another UFO Excuse? - Deschamps - Michel M. Deschamps [8]
   Re: Punch Biopsy/Involuntary Sampling Ottawa - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO
   [43]
   Concave Scoop Mark - Brian Vike - HBCCUFO [43]
   Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Bourdais - Gildas Bourdais [26]
   Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens - - David Clarke [47]
   Victor Kean - 1931-2003 - Graham W. Birdsall - UFO Magazine [UK] [18]
   'UFO Program' At Laurentian University? - Eleanor White [8]
   Re: STS-48 Time Tags Explained - Fleming - Lan Fleming [11]
   Re: Victor Kean - 1931-2003 - Connors - Wendy Connors [6]
   What Is Real In Ufology? - Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas [7]
   Sci Fi Begins Production On Kecksburg Special - UFO UpDates - Toronto
   [51]
   UFO Sighted In Southern Taiwan - UFO UpDates - Toronto [30]
   Re: Victor Kean - 1931-2003 - Hale - Roy Hale [8]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 25 - John Hayes [481]
   Re: Michigan & Extraterrestrials? - Stanford - Ray Stanford [15]
   Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Velez - John Velez [6]
   Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Velez - John Velez [29]
   Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Evans - Chris Evans [30]
   Re: Michigan & Extraterrestrials? - Westover - J Westover [14]
   Re: 'UFO Program' At Laurentian University? - Groff - Terry Groff [9]
   Search for Life Out There Gains Respect - UFO UpDates - Toronto [183]
   Re: 'UFO Program' At Laurentian University? - - Daniel Corbett [21]
   Re: What Is Real In Ufology?-McGonagle - McGonagle - Joe McGonagle [42]

  Jul 9:

   Re: UFORC - Anderson - Paul Anderson [18]
   Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [19]
   Re: Conventioneers Share Alien Theories - Friedman - Stan Friedman [44]
   Re: What Is Real In Ufology? - Fleming - Lan Fleming [12]
   Investigator's Right To Investigate - Mike Bird [43]
   Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Bourdais - Gildas Bourdais [13]
   Re: Conventioneers Share Alien Theories - LeFevre - Charlette LeFevre
   [15]
   Piloting UFOs? - A. J. Gevaerd Revista UFO [5]
   Re: Investigator's Right To Investigate - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [35]
   Re: What Is Real In Ufology? - McGonagle - Joe McGonagle [34]
   Re: Investigator's Right To Investigate - Keith - Rebecca Keith [31]
   Re: Conventioneers Share Alien Theories - Friedman - Stan Friedman [14]
   Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens - - Jan Aldrich [47]
   Crab Blood Can Be Alien Hunter - Joe McGonagle [103]
   Sky & Telescope 'Facing Mars' - GT McCoy [14]
   'Liquidation Of The UFO Investigators'? - Loren Coleman [8]
   Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens - - Don Ledger [37]
   Secrecy News -- 07/09/03 - Steven Aftergood [129]
   On Sky Patrol With The Flying Saucer Squad - UFO UpDates - Toronto [76]
   Re: 'Liquidation Of The UFO Investigators'? - - Eustaquio Andrea
   Patounas [1]
   Filer's Files #28 -- 2003 - George A. Filer [541]
   Re: What Is Real In Ufology? - Friedman - Stan Friedman [18]
   Re: What Is Real In Ufology - Fleming - Lan Fleming [33]
   Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens - - David Clarke [18]
   Re: onventioneers Share Alien Theories - Gevaerd - A. J. Gevaerd -
   Revista UFO [28]
   Re: Investigator's Right To Investigate - - Bruce Hutchinson [31]
   Re: Investigator's Right To Investigate - LeFevre - Charlette LeFevre
   [52]
   Re: What Is Real In Ufology? - Hebert - Amy Hebert [22]
   Re: Conventioneers Share Alien Theories - LeFevre - Charlette LeFevre
   [40]
   Re: Investigator's Right To Investigate - Gevaerd - A. J. Gevaerd -
   Revista UFO [21]
   Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Jacobson - Eric Jacobson [34]
   Re: Sky & Telescope 'Facing Mars' - Tonnies - Mac Tonnies [8]
   Vladimir Azhazha's Book? - Albert Rosales [5]

  Jul 10:

   Re: What Is Real In Ufology? - McGonagle - Joe McGonagle [39]
   Re: What Is Real In Ufology - McGonagle - Joe McGonagle [13]
   Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens - Pope - Nick Pope [26]
   Beverly Gleason On Gleason & Nixon - Grant Cameron [76]
   Re: Sky & Telescope 'Facing Mars' - Sterling - Rick L. Sterling [20]
   Re: Conventioneers Share Alien Theories - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [7]
   Re: Investigator's Right To Investigate - LeFevre - Charlette LeFevre
   [16]
   Internet Outage In The Washington DC Metro Area - Steven Kaeser [12]
   'Liquidation Of The UFO Investigators'? Article - UFO UpDates - Toronto
   [411]
   Re: hat Is Real In Ufology - Fleming - Lan Fleming [21]
   Re: Investigator's Right To Investigate - Burns - Max Burns [64]
   Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens - - Jan Aldrich [56]
   Re: Sky & Telescope 'Facing Mars' - Stanford - Ray Stanford [17]
   Re: Internet Outage In Washington DC Area - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [2]
   Re: Investigator's Right To Investigate - Stanford - Ray Stanford [5]
   Sci-Fi Channel Kecksberg & Rendelsham Documentaries - Steven Kaeser
   [71]
   Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Bourdais - Gildas Bourdais [12]
   South Montreal Sighting - Brian Vike - HBCC-UFO [52]

  Jul 11:

   FOIA Appeal US Army General Counsel - Larry W. Bryant [87]
   Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens - - Dan Bright [16]
   Re: What Is Real In Ufology - Hebert - Amy Hebert [37]
   Re: STS-48 Time Tags Explained - Oberg - James Oberg [26]
   Re: Jarrold & 'Liquidation Of The UFO - Bill Chalker [30]
   Popular Mechanics Roswell Article - Bruce Hutchinson [10]
   Re: Rendlesham UFO 'Hoax' - McGonagle - Joe McGonagle [10]
   Re: Conventioneers Share Alien Theories - Gevaerd - A. J. Gevaerd -
   Revista UFO [11]
   Circles The Work Of Fairfield Teens - Terry Groff [137]
   First Mobile UFO Museum Comes To Izmir? - Terry Groff [13]
   Mysterious Disappearances In Pampa Union Chile - Scott Corrales [63]
   Investigator's Right & Debunking Hypocrisy - David Rudiak [81]
   Brazilian Ufologists Electronic Agenda - Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas [5]
   Greg Long? - Bill Stockstill [16]
   Earthlings A Threat To ETs? - Nick Balaskas [31]
   Re: Rendlesham UFO 'Hoax' - Rudiak - David Rudiak [23]
   Re: What Is Real In Ufology - Velez - John Velez [19]
   Re: Re: Greg Long? - Lewis - Stephen MILES Lewis [8]
   Helicopter & 'Something'? - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [52]
   Re: Conventioneers Share Alien Theories - Friedman - Stan Friedman [18]
   Re: What Is Real In Ufology - McGonagle - Joe McGonagle [50]
   Re: What Is Real In Ufology - McGonagle - Joe McGonagle [51]
   Re: Greg Long? - Stockstill - Bill Stockstill [25]
   Re: What Is Real In Ufology - McGonagle - Joe McGonagle [39]
   Re: Greg Long? - Andersen - Katlhleen Andersen [9]

  Jul 12:

   Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Jacobson - Eric Jacobson [8]
   Re: Greg Long? - Lewis - SMiles Lewis [4]
   Re: Investigator's Right & Debunking Hypocrisy - - Robert Gates [16]
   Disclosure Australia - 07-12-03 - Diane Harrison - AUFORN [30]
   Re: Jarrold & 'Liquidation Of The - Larry Hatch [26]
   Re: Popular Mechanics Roswell Article - Friedman - Stan Friedman [14]
   Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [18]
   Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens - Pope - Nick Pope [8]
   Re: STS-48 Time Tags Explained - Fleming - Lan Fleming [26]
   Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens - - A. J. Gevaerd -
   Revista UFO [9]
   Re: Sci-Fi Channel Kecksberg & Rendelsham - Nick Pope [26]
   Re: Rendlesham UFO 'Hoax' - Bruni - Georgina Bruni [43]
   Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens - - David Rudiak [41]
   Re: Rendlesham UFO 'Hoax' - Bruni - Georgina Bruni [58]
   Re: Popular Mechanics Roswell Article - Tonnies - Mac Tonnies [16]
   Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens - Pope - Nick Pope [20]
   Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Evans - Chris Evans [25]
   Re: Sci-Fi Channel Kecksberg & Rendelsham - Fleming - Lan Fleming [14]
   Mount Herman UFO - Larry Taylor [10]
   Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [34]
   Re: Investigator's Right and Debunking Hypocrisy - - David Rudiak [86]
   Re: Rendlesham UFO 'Hoax' - Rudiak - David Rudiak [28]
   Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens - - Jan Aldrich [15]
   Green Fireball Minutes - Daniel Guenther [15]
   Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [70]
   Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Evans - Chris Evans [20]
   Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens - - Dan Bright [69]
   Re: Sci-Fi Channel Kecksberg & Rendelsham - Pope - Nick Pope [23]
   Pop Culture's Encounters Of The Alien Kind - UFO UpDates - Toronto
   [108]

  Jul 13:

   Flying Saucers From The 4th Dimension? - Mac Tonnies [38]
   Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [33]
   Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens - - David Rudiak [26]
   Puerto Rico Sighting - 06-2003 - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [43]
   Re: What Is Real In Ufology - Hebert - Amy Hebert [47]
   Golden Section In Face on Mars - Jiri Mruzek [6]
   Chupacabras Gets A Beating In Chile - Scott Corrales [84]
   Re: Greg Long? - Stockstill - Bill Stockstill [7]
   Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Bourdais - Gildas Bourdais [15]
   Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Velez - John Velez [30]
   FOIA Appeal To DIA General Counsel - Larry W. Bryant [74]
   MUFON-ite Said Dead - Not! - Kenny Young [55]
   70s UFO Causes Military Cordon & Evacuation? - Kenny Young [14]

  Jul 14:

   Witnesses To 'Falling Human' Mistaken - Kenny Young [33]
   Re: Flying Saucers From The 4th Dimension? - - Joe McGonagle [17]
   BBC Suffolk Hoaxed By Conde? - Georgina Bruni [220]
   Re: Rendlesham UFO 'Hoax' - Bruni - Georgina Bruni [91]
   Re: Rendlesham UFO 'Hoax' - Jerry Smith [52]
   Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens - - Bruce Maccabee [10]
   CCCRN News: Crop Circle Photo Gallery Added to Web - Paul Anderson [37]
   Congress Pressured To Probe UFOs - UFO UpDates - Toronto [56]
   Re: Rendlesham UFO 'Hoax' - McGonagle - Joe McGonagle [17]
   Re: Rendlesham UFO 'Hoax' - Bruni - Georgina Bruni [15]
   Re: Rendlesham UFO 'Hoax' - Rudiak - David Rudiak [21]
   Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Evans - Chris Evans [21]
   Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens - - Jan Aldrich [18]
   Re: Golden Section In Face on Mars - Tonnies - Mac Tonnies [8]
   Secrecy News -- 07/14/03 - Steven Aftergood [122]
   Re: What Is Real In Ufology - Velez - John Velez [61]
   UFO Sighted Near Scottish Rugby Club - UFO UpDates - Toronto [60]
   North Wales' Top 10 UFO Sighting Spots - UFO UpDates - Toronto [188]
   Beware The Escaped Flyborg - UFO UpDates - Toronto [40]

  Jul 15:

   Re: 'UFO Program' At Laurentian University? - - Michel M. Deschamps [5]
   UFO Newsclipping Service Back Issues - Ken Kelly [4]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 26 - John Hayes [649]
   Re: 'UFO Program' At Laurentian University? - Groff - Terry Groff [20]
   Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Strickland - Sue Strickland [16]
   Heads-Up - John Velez [42]
   Crikey! Stargazer Deciphers Alien Lingo - UFO UpDates - Toronto [53]
   Crop Circles Cause Chaos & Questions In Knobel - UFO UpDates - Toronto
   [34]
   ET Alive And On Mars - UFO UpDates - Toronto [51]
   New York Sunday Times Magazine July 27/03 - Will Bueche - Center for
   Psychology & Social Change [27]
   Re: Heads-Up - Vike - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [30]
   Re: Victor Kean - 1931-2003 - Spurrier - Tony Spurrier [49]
   Scientists Say Crop Circles Were No Prank - UFO UpDates - Toronto [73]
   Re: New York Sunday Times Magazine July 27/03 - - Chris Evans [13]

  Jul 16:

   Re: New York Sunday Times Magazine July 27/03 - - Virgilio
   Sanchez-Ocejo [21]
   Gordon Creighton (FSR) - 1908 - 2003 - Graham W. Birdsall - UFO
   Magazine [UK] [13]
   Secrecy News -- 07/16/2003 - Steven Aftergood [168]
   Re: Gordon Creighton (FSR) - 1908 - 2003 - Wendy Connors [5]
   Re: Scientists Say Crop Circles Were No Prank - - Ed Gehrman [32]
   Re: Gordon Creighton (FSR) - 1908 - 2003 - Bill Hamilton [5]
   Re: Gordon Creighton (FSR) - 1908 - 2003 - Gevaerd - A. J. Gevaerd -
   Revista UFO - [12]
   Re: Scientists Say Crop Circles Were No Prank - - Mac Tonnies [13]
   Re: Gordon Creighton (FSR) - 1908 - 2003 - Auchettl - John Auchettl
   [12]

  Jul 17:

   Re: Scientists Say Crop Circles Were No Prank - - Michel M. Deschamps
   [10]
   Hessdalen Question - Catherine Reason [46]
   Re: What Is Real In Ufology - Hebert - Amy Hebert [174]
   Re: Scientists Say Crop Circles Were No Prank - - Joachim Koch [28]
   Re: What Is Real In Ufology - Velez - John Velez [69]
   Re: Scientists Say Crop Circles Were No Prank - - Ed Gehrman [24]
   Reports Of UFOs Flooding Into UK Group - Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas
   [36]
   Mother Kept Mummified Daughter For Aliens - Eustquio Anddrea Patounas
   [30]
   UFO Frauds Redux - Don Ecker [111]
   Mother Kept Mummified Daughter For Aliens - Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas
   [29]
   Re: Gordon Creighton (FSR) - 1908 - 2003 - Rimmer - John Rimmer [52]
   Re: Reports Of UFOs Flooding Into UK Group - Hatch - Larry Hatch [9]
   Investigator Question on Object Shape - Todd Lemire [4]
   UFO UpDates Off-Line Until July 25th - UFO UpDates - Toronto [9]

  Jul 18:

   Re: Scientists Say Crop Circles Were No Prank - - John Rimmer [25]
   Re: UFO Frauds Redux - Hamilton - Bill Hamilton [17]
   Re: Investigator's Right & Debunking Hypocrisy - - Dave Thomas [124]
   Re: Gordon Creighton (FSR) - 1908 - 2003 - Clark - Jerome Clark [28]

  Jul 19:

   Re: Scientists Say Crop Circles Were No Prank - - Michel M. Deschamps
   [21]
   Re: Investigator Question on Object Shape - Hatch - Larry Hatch [24]
   Re: Investigator Question on Object Shape - Groff - Terry Groff [4]
   Chupacabras in La Palmill Chile - Scott Corrales [36]
   Gordon Creighton Biography - Graham W. Birdsall- UFO Magazine [UK] [61]
   Re: UFO Frauds Redux - Aldrich - Jan Aldrich [19]
   CI: Underground City Images Analysis Un-Convincing - Mac Tonnies [99]
   Re: UFO Frauds Redux - Gates - Robert Gates [19]
   UFO Sighting OZ Files 07-19-03 - Diane Harrison - AUFORN [153]

  Jul 20:

   Re: Richard Gere: Future Victim Of 'Mothman' - - Loren Coleman [15]

  Jul 21:

   Abduction In Finland? - Luis R. Gonzalez [7]
   Secrecy News -- 07/21/03 - Steven Aftergood [112]
   Chupacabras Prints To Be Studied By GEO Group - Scott Corrales [64]

  Jul 22:

   Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [29]
   UFOs Are Real In Russia - Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas [165]
   Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [12]
   Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Cameron - Grant Cameron [26]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 27 - John Hayes [279]

  Jul 23:

   UFOs Demon-Piloted Craft From Hell? - Loren Coleman [24]
   Socorro's UFO Incident Still Unexplained - Loren Coleman [106]
   Flaming Ball Spotted In Northern Greece A Meteor? - Eustquio Anddrea
   Patounas [13]
   'Other commitments' Kept Aliens From UFO Daze? - Eustquio Anddrea
   Patounas [53]
   Filer's Files #30 -- 2003 - George A. Filer [526]

  Jul 24:

   Washington-Baltimore Workshop - Peter Resta [12]
   'UFO' Lights Caught On Film - Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas [29]
   Secrecy News -- 07/24/03 - Steven Aftergood [164]
   Re: What Is Real In Ufology - Velez - John Velez [16]
   Re: Filer's Files #30 -- 2003 - Velez - John Velez [25]
   Secrecy News -- 07/24/03 (EXTRA) - Steven Aftergood [44]

  Jul 25:

   Cattle Mutilations In Choele Choele (Rio Negro) - Scott Corrales [32]
   More Mutilated Cattle In La Pampa Argentina - Scott Corrales [44]
   Watford UK UFO Sightings - Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas [9]
   Re: Scientists Say Crop Circles Were No Prank - - Ed Gehrman [7]
   CCCRN News: First 2003 Canadian Crop Formation - Paul Anderson [67]
   Re: Scientists Say Crop Circles Were No Prank - - Paul Anderson [48]
   Issues Swamp Gas Journal Now Available Online - Chris Rutkowski [16]
   Re: 'Other commitments' Kept Aliens From UFO Daze? - Jerome Clark [2]
   Re: Underground City Images Analysis Un-Convincing - Diane Harrison -
   AUFORN [61]

  Jul 24:

   Re: Chupacabras Prints To Be Studied By GEO Group - Ray Stanford [27]
   'UFO' Glow Dims Homes - Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas [16]
   Aliens More Like Arnie Than ET - UFO UpDates - Toronto [51]

  Jul 25:

   The Sky's The Limit - UFO UpDates - Toronto [104]
   UFO Festival Should Have Been Abducted - UFO UpDates - Toronto [90]
   'UFO' Lights Caught On Tape - UFO UpDates - Toronto [32]

  Jul 26:

   Re: Filer's Files #30 -- 2003 - Sinkey - Betsy Sinkey [13]
   P-47: Sad Day At The Archives - Chester [48]
   Re: UFO Frauds Redux - McCoy - GT McCoy [14]
   Moncla's Disappearance Still A Mystery After 50 - UFO UpDates - Toronto
   [208]
   Re: Filer's Files #30 -- 2003 - Hatch - Larry Hatch [21]
   Re: Investigator Question on Object Shape - Hatch - Larry Hatch [16]
   Re: 'Other commitments' Kept Aliens From UFO Daze? - Larry Hatch [9]
   Re: CI: Underground City Images Analysis - Mac Tonnies [24]
   CI: A 'Tholus' In California? - Mac Tonnies [45]
   A New Tungunska Incident? - Scott Corrales [31]
   Re: Aliens More Like Arnie Than ET - Friedman - Stanton Friedman [31]
   Re: P-47: Sad Day At The Archives - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [3]
   Re: UFO Frauds Redux - Hamilton - Bill Hamilton [25]
   Re: Investigator Question on Object Shape - Groff - Terry Groff [4]
   NY Times: A Bad Trip Down Memory Lane - Will Bueche [315]

  Jul 27:

   Re: Scientists Say Crop Circles Were No Prank - - Paul Anderson [54]
   Conference To Uncover Truth Of 'Secret Government' - Eustquio Anddrea
   Patounas [63]
   Re: Chupacabras Prints To Be Studied By GEO Group - Virgilio
   Sanchez-Ocejo [30]
   Re: Chupacabras Prints To Be Studied By GEO Group - Virgilio
   Sanchez-Ocejo [30]
   UFO Experience Real Hair-Raiser - Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas [26]
   Re: Investigator Question on Object Shape - Lemire - Todd Lemire [12]
   'Secret' Apollo 11 Transmission? - Mori Kentaro [45]
   Re: Filer's Files #30 -- 2003 - Stanford - Ray Stanford [29]
   Re: Investigator Question on Object Shape - Olmos - Vicente-Juan
   Ballester Olmos [6]
   Crop Circles UK 2003 - Mark Doulton [7]
   Bonnybridge Photo Date? - Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos [6]
   Address For John Tenney? - Jan Aldrich [12]
   Undersea World Points To Possible Origin Of Life, - Terry Groff [83]

  Jul 28:

   CI: Tholus-Like Formation In Arabia Terra - Mac Tonnies [40]
   Re: P-47: Sad Day At The Archives - Velez - John Velez [39]
   Re: Filer's Files #30 -- 2003 - Velez - John Velez [50]
   No MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Case - Terry Groff [111]
   "Mystery Payments" & The Gulf Breeze Embarrassment - Kenny Young [6]
   Mogul 4 That Never Was - Gildas Bourdais [83]
   Chilean Winged Weirdoes And Imps - Scott Corrales [236]
   Re: Conference To Uncover Truth Of 'Secret - John Velez [90]
   Secrecy News -- 07/28/03 - Steven Aftergood [136]
   Re: UFO Frauds Redux - Ecker - Don Ecker [45]
   Re: UFO Experience Real Hair-Raiser - Stanford - Ray Stanford [11]
   Re: Filer's Files #30 -- 2003 - Shough - Martin Shough [1]
   Re: "Mystery Payments" & The Gulf Breeze - Bruce Maccabee [3]
   Re: No MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Case - - Eustaquio Anddrea
   Patounas [3]
   Perry van den Brink/UASR? - Larry Hatch [12]
   Re: P-47: Sad Day At The Archives - White - Eleanor White [13]
   Re: UFO Experience Real Hair-Raiser - Hatch - Larry Hatch [10]
   Alien 'Experts' Converge On Perth - UFO UpDates - Toronto [29]
   'Strange Secrets' Exposes Unknown - UFO UpDates - Toronto [75]
   Mist And Mystery Of Mars Water Spots - UFO UpDates - Toronto [70]
   Albany Man Searches For UFOs - UFO UpDates - Toronto [160]

  Jul 29:

   Re: UFO Experience Real Hair-Raiser - Stanford - Ray Stanford [9]
   Re: Alien 'Experts' Converge On Perth - Stanford - Ray Stanford [5]





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 1

                 FOX News Watch Suppressing UFO Disclosure?

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 07:24:39 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 07:24:39 -0400
Subject: FOX News Watch Suppressing UFO Disclosure?




Source: YowUSA.Com

http://www.yowusa.com/Archive/Jun2003/FOXufo/foxufo.htm


Is FOX News Watch Suppressing UFO Disclosure Efforts Through
Media Intimidation?

by Marshall Masters

30-June-2003


While I was watching the News Watch program on FOX News last
Saturday night, their closing story caught my attention. They
were reporting that John Podesta, former Clinton chief of staff,
and SCI FI Channel are now conducting a concerned lobbying
effort with a high-powered Washington, D.C., law firm to force
the disclosure of UFO secrets.  All of the pundits on the show,
liberal and conservative alike mocked the Sci-Fi channel and
labeled the effort as PR nonsense.

The only thing balanced about this haughty and arrogant attack
was that it it came from both the left and the right (as if
there is a real difference in the corporate sense.)  Oviously,
the real attitude towards the Sci-Fi channel and Podesta at FOX
News, fits with a new definition for "fair," as being something
that comes to town once a year.

So what is troubling about all this? There was a clear
impression given by the News Watch pundits that this is breaking
story, when it fact, it dates back to October 2002.  So why has
Fox suddenly slammed its spin machine against an 8-month old
story, this close to August?

SCI-FI Channel, 23-October-02
SCI FI Backs UFO Disclosure

The SCI FI Channel joined with John Podesta, former chief of
staff to President Bill Clinton, in calling for declassification
of secret government records on UFOs, the network announced.
 SCI FI is backing a Freedom of Information Act initiative to
obtain government records on cases involving retrieval of
objects of unknown origin by the secret Air Force operations
Project Moon Dust and Operation Blue Fly. Assisting SCI FI in
its effort is the Washington, D.C., law firm of Lobel, Novins
and Lamont, the network announced.  "It is time for the
government to declassify records that are more than 25 years old
and to provide scientists with data that will assist in
determining the real nature of this phenomenon," Podesta said in
a statement.

Explaining SCI FI's involvement, network president Bonnie Hammer
said, "For the past decade, SCI FI programming has explored the
often-blurred line that separates science fiction from science
fact.  But when credible scientists conclude that 5 percent to
10 percent of UFOs cannot be explained by natural or artificial
causes, we think it is worth taking a much closer look at what
is clearly a real and ubiquitous phenomenon."

Let's Be Balanced, Shall We?

What the pundits at FOX were quick to mention in passing, and
even quicker to gloss over is that the Sci-Fi Channel is working
with the former chief of staff to an American President.  Just
out of curiosity, wouldn't John Podesta, in his role as a chief
of staff, have sufficient security access to know that something
is going on?

At the very least, why were they not interested in knowing why
Podesta is now willing to jam his foot down upon the 3rd rail of
UFO controversy?

Given that FOX News Watch presents itself as a watchdog group of
the news media, itself, why are glossing over Podesta's
involvement in all this?  Is it to inoculate public attention in
the efforts of the Sci-Fi Channel and Podesta?  No! For most
Americans, this story was an uneventful trial balloon that will
go nowhere in the drone of weekend TV. If is this so, to whom is
the message addressed?

What FOX News Watch was doing, no doubt at the direction of its
corporate executives, was to send an implied message to
reporters at large.  Any reporter who dares to cover this issue
in a serious manner will suffer considerable ridicule.  In other
words, the implied message from FOX to the rest of the media is
simple -- touch this, and your career will be trashed. To do
that, they presented an 8-month old news story as breaking news.
 If this is not a plain outright case of misleading the public,
what is?

Another interesting aspect is the timing.  Perhaps something is
in the works.  Perhaps the Sci-Fi Channel and Podesta are on the
verge of something significant. But there could also be
something else.

Why Now?

In May 2003, I published a detailed analysis of three
significant crop circle formations on YOWUSA titled, Are
Extraterrestrials at Odds With Crop Circle Messages?  Please
keep in mind that the three formations I discussed in that
article all happened in three consecutive years in England; all
were massively complex; all appeared next to major
communications facilities; and all manifested within a narrow
mid-August time span.

In that article, I focused on the Crabwood formation that had
appeared on August 15, 2002 next to a microwave station near
Winchester, Hampshire.  In that article, I speculated that,
based on similarities of the formations of the last three
consecutive years, we would see another complex formation this
coming August.  I also speculated that it could likewise offer
us a continuation of the message contained within the 2002
Crabwood formation.







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 1

                  Re: Out Of The Blue On Sci-Fi - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 00:25:57 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 07:48:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Out Of The Blue On Sci-Fi - Maccabee


>From: James Oberg <jamesoberg@houston.rr.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 13:28:22 -0500
>Subject: Re: Out Of The Blue On Sci-Fi

>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 00:07:24 -0300
>>Subject: Out Of The Blue On Sci-Fi


>I'd like to raise a few issues regarding ways to elevate the
>quality and credibility of such programs higher.....

>The Rest of the Story to "Out of the Blue"
>Jim Oberg (www.jamesoberg.com)
>June 28, 2003

>The SciFi channel's two-hour program, "Out of the Blue", first
>aired on June 24, 2003, is undoubtedly one of the slickest UFO-
>theme productions ever made. But although the claim is made that
>it was produced in order to show 'the truth' about UFOs, many of
>its key claims can be shown to be incomplete, misleading, and
>even false. Anyone seeking truth about UFO reports and what may
>lie behind them needs far more information than the SciFi
>Channel appears willing to give them. Here are some suggested
>additional sources for just such information.

<snip>

>Other topics mentioned on the show:

>Printy has a rather good rebuttal of the "Phoenix lights" as well as
>the article by Tony Ortega which highlighted some of the nonsense.

The 8-9 PM "fly over" by a triangle is unexplained. Most of the
explanations have concentrated on the lights seen/videotaped
several hours later.

>Also, the 1950 'Trent Photo' is highlighted, along with comments by
>William Hartmann, an astronomer (and skilled amateur artist) who
>worked for the Condon Committee. What 'Out of the Blue' concealed
>from its viewers is that Hartmann's subsequent research convinced
>him, for technical reasons, that the photograph was a hoax

>http://www.debunker.com/trent.html

I recall that Hartmann did no further research (after his
research during the Condon study period, 1967-1968). Rather,
Sheaffer's 1972-3 (?) discussion of Hartmann's clever use of
atmospheric attenuation to estimate the distance to the object
convinced Hartmann that one of his basic assumptions (needed by
the atmospheric analysis) was wrong. Specifically, Hartmann used
the relative brightness of the bottom of the object to estimate
distance. Hartmann assumed that the increased brightness of the
bottom was a result of atmospheric light scattering related to
the distance between the camera and the object.

Sheaffer claimed that the relative brightness could also be
explained as resulting from veiling glare caused by dirt/grease
on the lens. Subsequently I showed that there may well have been
some veiling glare but that there was also another factor
ignored by both Sheaffer and Hartmann that compensated for the
veiling glare. The net result was that Hartmann's distance
calculation was probably OK. This is all described at
http://brumac.8k.com in the research papers on the Trent case.

After I had carried out my analysis I sent the results to
Hartmann and his response, as I recall, was something like this:
"you don't need a better analysis, you need a better case." The
Trents died 5-6 years ago. They maintained their story up
through their last (and only) videotaped interview (by Terry
Halstead, summer 1995, I think it was).

>See also:

>http://www.ufx.org/mcminn/photo.htm

The above website argues that it would have been possible for
Trent to have faked the photos. No big surprise here... fakery
is/was possible. The real question is the probability... and
based on Trents' life stories, which form the context for the
photos, I'd say very improbable.

The above website also proposes an old fashioned truck mirror as
the hoax object... hung by a string and photographed. There are
several examples of truck mirrors... and some look quite
similar. However, all the mirrors are circular and the "post" is
always mounted to the center of the mirror. The Trent object was
not circular (it had a slight, flat V shape visible at the left
edge in photo 1) and the "post" is slightly offset from center.
Furthermore the shape of the "front" and "back" (left and right
side outlines in photo 2) are not the same, whereas the truck
mirrors are symmetric.



<snip>

>As for the Condon report on-line at:

>http://www.ncas.org/condon/

Regarding the Condon report and specifically Condon's brief
discussion of the McMinnville case, Condon used a bit of
sophistry to detract from Hartmann's rather strong claim that an
"extraordinary flying object" had been photographed. (see the
CR, first photographic case).

It is quite likely that Condon knew the difference between
photometry and photogrammetry.

Photometry: the study of relative brightness in a photograph
Photogrammetry: the measurement of image distances and
calculation of angles from a photograph

Hartmann based his distance estimate on photometric measurements
of the first photo.

Condon wrote in his summary that he discussed the McMinnville
photos with a photo analyst, Everett Merritt, (I think that's
his name) and Merritt said that the photos were too fuzzy for
worthwhile photogrammetric analysis. Hence the average reader,
who wouldn't know that photometry is not dependent upon
photogrammetry, was left to assume that Hartmann's analysis was
worthless.

Rumor has it that Hartmann wasn't pleased with the "put down."


SNIP

>Brief theoretical treatments of a logical case for NOT
>'believing' in UFOs can be found in the prize- winning essay
>"The Failure of The Science of Ufology" (1979) at:

>http://www.beyondroswell.com/roswell/oberg_failure.html

>and a later conference paper, The 'Null Hypothesis' (1985) also
>called 'The Black- Box Perception Model", at:
>http://www.debunker.com/texts/black_box_approach_to_ufo_perceptions.html

A case for not uncritically accepting the explanations proposed
by skeptics is presented in "Prosaic Explanations: the Failure
of UFO Skepticism." at:

http://brumac.8k.com/prosaic1.html





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 1

              Re: Largest UFO Database In The World? - LeFevre

From: Charlette LeFevre <clefevre@oz.net>
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 00:38:16 -0700 (MST)
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 07:51:36 -0400
Subject: Re: Largest UFO Database In The World? - LeFevre


>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
>To: Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 12:29:39 -0700
>Subject: Largest UFO Database In The World?

>While browsing around to see who else is out there in UFO
>Database-land, I stumbled upon this links page:

>http://www.ufovideo.net/LINKS.html

>...which had this curious link:

>"A UFO RESOURCE CENTER
>Posted by CJ Montgomery on Saturday, 13 April 2002, at 6:22 pm.
>UFOs, flying saucers and alien encounters. The extraterrestrial
>hypothesis is explored, military cover-up exposed. Submit a UFO
>report online. Search thousands of pages of UFO pictures,
>articles and research we are the largest UFO database in the
>world. We are an International UFO research organization .."

>Largest UFO database in the world?

>Clicking on the hyperlink got me here:

>http://www.uforc.com/

>.. with lots of things like Crop Circles, UFOs in the Bible,
>Anti-Gravity, the UFO-Jesus connection(?) .. there is even a
>link to "Why Couldn't Planet X Return?".

>You will need to use both scroll bars to see the entire page,
>its wide and deep. To the right, I find:

>"Consult with our panel of UFO experts. We are here to answer
>your questions about UFOs, aliens or whatever you may ask. CLICK
>HERE..." (UFO Advisory Panel)

>http://www.uforc.com/ufoap/index.html

>I did, and found the panel of UFO experts, each with a picture.
>My question is this: Does anybody know these experts? Anything
>about them?  Maybe I'm in the dark here, but I couldn't
>recognize a single name or face.

>I'd like to know more about the "biggest UFO Database in the
>World". Are they referring to UFOCAT? NUFORC? .. or have they
>compiled their own database?



Dear Larry,

You are correct in your speculation about this "UFO Resource
Center".

I believe I can comment on this website and this claim of
"biggest UFO Database in the World" as I have met this guy
Christopher Montgomery and he operates (or tries to) out of my
hometown, Kent, in the State of Washington - a suburb of
Seattle.

Essentially its a one man operating web site reposting others
information with nothing original and a network of several
friends (and I didn't even think they are still active from a
few years ago until I read your message). A testament to don't
believe everything you read on the internet.

I met Chris briefly at an event several years ago and as I
recall Chris is a character similar to "Ted Baxter" on the "Mary
Tayler Moore show" - a melodramatic newscaster.

My issue with Chris Montgomery is in the past he has taken my e-
 mail announcements and posted his name to them. I asked him to
kindly stop posting my messages.

As to whether he has the "biggest UFO Database in the World"...
that remains to be seen.

I also believe discriminating people prefer quality of
information over size. :)


Charlette LeFevre
Co-ordinator





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 1

                    Rendlesham UFO lights Were A 'Prank'?

From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 21:39:59 -0300
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 07:55:51 -0400
Subject: Rendlesham UFO lights Were A 'Prank'?


Source: BBC News

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/england/suffolk/3033428.stm

30 June, 2003


UFO lights were 'a prank'

A former US security policeman has said he was responsible for
strange lights in a forest which sparked claims of a UFO
sighting.

He said a patrol car - and not a UFO - was to blame for strange
lights which have sparked two decades

A number of Air Force men said they saw an object in Rendlesham
Forest in Suffolk in the early hours of 27 December, 1980.

Reports said the "UFO" was transmitting blue pulsating lights
and sending nearby farm animals into a "frenzy".

But more than 20 years later, Kevin Conde has said he and
another airman shined patrol car lights through the trees and
made noises on the loudspeaker as a prank on a security guard at
nearby RAF Woodbridge in Suffolk.

'Very strange place'

Mr Conde said: "It was fertile ground for a practical joke, and
practical jokes are a tradition in the security police.

"We just drove through the forest flashing the lights through
the fog.

"It wasn't a UFO, it was a 1979 Plymouth Volare."

Mr Conde was stationed elsewhere shortly after the incident, and
he had no idea his hoax was responsible for the Rendlesham UFO
myth, which led to requests for information from the Ministry of
Defence and the US government.

The mystery of the lights has continued for 23 years.

Brenda Butler, a local resident, said: "It was definitely a
craft, because we've seen craft down here.

"Rendlesham is a very strange place - it's like a doorway
opening from another dimension."

Despite Mr Conde's admission, some witnesses do not believe they
saw patrol car lights that night in Rendlesham Forest.

US Air Force Sergeant John Burroughs said: "The blue lights
coming down from the sky... I still have never heard of any
technology capable of doing what I saw happening."

"The original stuff we saw cannot be taken for a police car.
There's no way possible."








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 1

                         New California Crop Circle

From: Chaz Stuart <Daydisk2@webtv.net>
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 00:19:31 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 08:09:36 -0400
Subject: New California Crop Circle


Source: Daily Republic

http://www.dailyrepublic.com/articles/2003/06/30/news/news1.txt

June 30, 2003


In addition to the formation found in Arkansas and the lone
circle found near Shreveport, La., we now have another U.S.
report from California. One has to wonder how much of an effect
last year's 'Signs' movie has had on possible hoaxers...

Circle reports are up this year throughout most of the world,
including Italy which at last report had 14, including one in
Rome itself!









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 1

              Re: FOX News Watch Suppressing UFO Disclosure? -

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 08:34:08 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 08:50:50 -0400
Subject: Re: FOX News Watch Suppressing UFO Disclosure? -


>Source: YowUSA.Com

>http://www.yowusa.com/Archive/Jun2003/FOXufo/foxufo.htm

>Is FOX News Watch Suppressing UFO Disclosure Efforts Through
>Media Intimidation?

>by Marshall Masters

>30-June-2003

>While I was watching the News Watch program on FOX News last
>Saturday night, their closing story caught my attention. They
>were reporting that John Podesta, former Clinton chief of staff,
>and SCI FI Channel are now conducting a concerned lobbying
>effort with a high-powered Washington, D.C., law firm to force
>the disclosure of UFO secrets. All of the pundits on the show,
>liberal and conservative alike mocked the Sci-Fi channel and
>labeled the effort as PR nonsense.

<snip>

A few comments,

First of all, is sounds like the FOX story was based on a press
release that was quickly amended to correct the improper
impression that John Podesta was actively involved in this
lobbying effort. In fact, it's his brother's firm of
Podesta/Mattoon that was hired by the Sci-Fi Channel. They, in
turn, created the Coalition for Freedom of Information to pursue
FOIA requests and lobby the appropriate individuals to pursue an
honest review of the evidence. Their newly re-designed web site
can be found at:

http://www.freedomofinfo.org/

John Podesta is not directly involved in this ongoing effort;
however he was featured at the kick-off Press Briefing last fall
at the National Press Club in Washington, DC.

As far as John Podesta having inside information, I would tend
to doubt it. Clinton had tasked his good friend and aide,
Webster Hubble, to research what the Government/Military knew
about UFOs and he admits that he hit a brick wall when trying to
pursue that line of questioning. I think it's fairly clear that
secrets are compartmentalized and maintained at all levels of
Government.

The general media, meanwhile, will likely continue to ridicule
this entire genre until forced to take a more serious look at
it. What is amazing about the press release put out by the Sci-
Fi Channel is the number of newspapers and broadcast outlets
that aired the story. Many of them handled it in a tongue-in-
cheek manner, but that's what we have to live with for now. Word
of the documentary "Out of the Blue" was better known to the
general public as a result of the publicity.

I do find it a bit odd that the author used this as a vehicle to
promote his own research into Crop Circles, which to my
knowledge is not within the scope the Sci-Fi Channels interest
at this point. Perhaps there is some major corporate pressure to
suppress these "truths", and a warning has been issued to
reporters in the field to keep to the straight and narrow. But
this all seems a bit paranoid, IMO.


Steve







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 1

                    CANUFO: Tonight Larry King On Roswell

From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 11:45:39 -0300
Fwd Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 11:20:43 -0400
Subject: CANUFO: Tonight Larry King On Roswell


The Larry KING CNN show tonight 9PM EDT will celebrate the
Roswell Crash Anniversary with such guests as Walter Haut and
Glenn Dennis and various people involved with the SCI-FI Roswell
show archeology dig of last year. Supposedly there will be NO
nasty noisy negativists.


Stan Friedman









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 2

                          Filer's Files #27 -- 2003

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 12:07:31 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 13:30:12 -0400
Subject: Filer's Files #27 -- 2003


Filer's Files #27 -- 2003 Skywatch Investigations.
George A. Filer,  Director Mutual UFO Network Eastern
July 1, 2003, Filer's Files #27 -- 2003
Majorstar@aol.com
Webmaster: Chuck Warren -- My website is at:
http://www.georgefiler.com
Sponsored by: http://www.filer.Isotonix.com/

UFO FLAP DEVELOPING IN EUROPE

The purpose of these files is to report the UFO eyewitness and
photo/video evidence that occurs on a daily basis around the
world and in space. Our UFOs headed for Mars, Massachusetts - a
round bright white light flying, New York - crop circle
investigation, Georgia - bright domed disc, Florida - three
stationary, orange, rectangular lights, Bahamas - daylight disc,
Mississippi - sun cloud and flying flashlight,  Michigan - Jet
flying too slow, Missouri -- hovering bright triangular shaped
object, Califoronia - flying triangle, Washington - daylight
disc sighting and photos, Argentina - cattle mutilation UK - UFO
flap, Belgium - flying triangles return, Netherlands - UFO
runway, Spain - UFO videotaped, Russian - fisherman see green
UFO, Ukraine - cylinder UFO with diamond emblem, and Australia -
bright light.

OUR UFO's HEADED FOR MARS

Mars is getting closer each day, the ruddy light in the early
morning sky is growing bigger and brighter, from just after
midnight to sunrise.  If you have a telescope or binoculars now
is the time to start observing because on August 27, Mars will
be closer to Earth than ever in recorded human history.
Traditionally whenever we have been close to Mars, the UFO
numbers have greatly increased.  You may be able to see Mars
white polar caps or dark surface markings. This year's close
approach, while not odramatically nearer than those of 1971 and,
1988 will nonetheless be the closest in almost 60,000 years.

MASSACHUSETTS - A ROUND BRIGHT WHITE LIGHT FLYING

SOUTH EASTON - The witness was taking out her dogs at exactly
9:49 PM, on June 15, 2003, and immediately saw a VERY bright
white light in the sky east with a pointy tail following it that
was an electric blue color (like a blue colored flame from a gas
stove). She states, "I couldn't help but follow the bright white
light with my eyes that went straight across the sky in front of
me from left to right." There was no angle to its flying. No
upward direction, no downward direction-just straight across the
soky perfectly from east to west. There was no smoke behind its
blue tail. Then in a split second I lost sight of it behind a
very large tree in my yard. My first thoughts were "I ran behind
my large tree to see if I could still see the bright white light
with the electric blue tail but it was completely gone. During
this whole time there was no sound. After I lost sight of it, I
looked straight up and saw a large jet flying in the eastern
direction and I could just barely hear its engine sound soaring
throough the skies. I immediately ran inside the house to tell
my husband. He unfortunately did not see it. Thanks to Peter
Davenport [ www.nuforc.org ]NUFORC

NEW YORK CROP CIRCLE INVESTIGATION

SARATOGA SPRINGS -- FOX 23 News in Albany, NY telephoned Ray
Cecot on the evening of June 12, 2003, to say they wanted me to
look at film footage they took of a crop formation in Saratoga
County. I reviewed the footage and later met with Joe who found
the formation(s). He was awakened around 2 AM by a short
duration "humming sound," on the night of June 11. It had a
definite "harmonic" quality about it with three different
"tones" to the hum. There were no other sounds, nor lights seen
in the area. The neoxt day Joe took his dog for a walk, and the
dog refused to go into the field. Joe then noticed that the
waist-high grass was laid down in (at least) five different
areas. The areas that were laid down were in a perfect east --
west alignment. Starting on the western edge of the field, the
first four "swirls" were relatively small, a yard or two in
length. The fifth formation (the easternmost) was the largest,
100 feet in length and 80 feet wide. The pattern was irregular,
but the grass was laid down in a voariety of ways, some bent in
a westerly direction, some toward the east, some southeast or
southwest. Many areas had definite circular swirls. Often the
grass was laid in one direction underneath other grass, which
lay in a totally different direction.

The crop circle is next to a church parking lot. The witness
took "flash" pictures at 8:30 PM, on June 11 and in some of the
photos there are globes of light, orbs hovering above the
formations. In some they appeared to be coming out of the grass
in an upward motion. On the night of June 21 - 22, Joe's wife
was awakened by a similar humming sound at 1:30 AM. Looking out
the window they saw a police car drive by but nothing else. That
morning, Joe walked his dog and once again the animal avoided
going intoo the area where there was more swirls in the field. A
lamppost nearby had been knocked to the ground, the metal at its
based twisted, but without visible signs that it had been hit by
a car. The investigation continues. Thanks to Ray Cecot Director
Independent Researchers' Association for Anomalous Phenomena
Albany, NY 12212  iraap1@nycap.rr.com.

Elizabeth Tuttle writes Duane Saari is our primary researcher
and found that on June 10 and 22, 2003 at around 2 AM; a
resident in this silent Saratoga neighborhood was up with their
2-month-old infant and heard a "harmonica" type of sound. The
resident couldn't see anything in the dark, so he took pictures
into the darkness with his digital camera. The next morning when
walking the dog, they found the crop circles in the field across
from their house. The second event on June 22 repeated the
procedure oagain. The next morning the circles had been
rearranged, several smaller circles had been added, and a
lamppost in the parking lot adjacent to the field had been
twisted off its base. djsaari@nycap.rr.com

RYE -- I read the report about the Rye, NY sightings, and the
gentleman referenced in that report should not underestimate the
frequency one may see satellites these days. A couple nights
ago, some friends and I spotted at least a dozen of varying
description in an hour's time. Some would disappear as they
entered the earth's shadow, some were flashing on and off
(tumbling) and often there were several visible at once. They
moved generally northeast, but there were a few stragglers
moving in other directions.o At one point, we observed a
satellite passing under another at much higher altitude going in
the same direction, giving the impression of an object
overtaking and passing another. Thanks to Greg St. Pierre
gregstpi@aol.com

GEORGIA - BRIGHT DOMED DISC

STOCKBRIDGE -- Tom Sheets MUFONGA's Director reports an
eyewitness observed an unusual event on I-75 North in the
Stockbridge area of Henry County on June 16, 2003, at about 4:59
PM. He observed a bright domed disc and it was moving faster
than any aircraft with which he was familiar. ASD Mark Ausmus is
attempting to investigate.

DOUGLAS COUNTY - Tom was contacted by a former witness who has
high credibility and is an intelligent retired professional with
outstanding credentials. He had been contemplating giving us a
call due to some very unusual events that occurred in his home
beginning about May 19, and extending through early June. One
night after turning in, he noticed a glowing round orb near his
closet door. It was a fairly bright circle, with less bright
radials from the center to it's outer perimeter, diameter about
12 inches, silveryo white, but mottled, outer edges not smooth,
perhaps slightly jagged. It seemed to have a shallow depth and
glowed from within. No light reflections were noticed in the
room. Witness felt calm, so went off to sleep. Later that
morning, while still asleep, some sort of force hit from above
the witness, which seemed directed at the upper right side of
his body. Witness came fully awake startled and frightened, and
momentarily noticed what he could only describe as some sort of
vague, dark, "ectoplasm" neaor the bed. His fear turned to
anger, so he threw his pillow and shouted for it to get out. It
drifted away down the hall and the witness returned to bed.

One night about a week later, an extremely loud BOOM awakened
the witness and he saw a flash of lightning-like blue-white
light in his bedroom. He felt a sort of electric feeling over
his body, and smelled for odors that might indicate fire or an
electric short, of which there was none. Witness then noticed
hundreds of sparkles developing in the corner of the room near
the bed and toward the ceiling, an area of about 4 feet x 4
feet. These sparkles would vanish, redevelop, repeat etc. After
watching foor ten minutes, he became calm as the electric
feeling receded, the sparkles also receded and he fell asleep.
Within about a week, he awoke one night to a buzzing sound,
looked and the sparkles were back, but brighter, with blue,
yellow, orange and white. After peacefully observing, he fell
asleep. This witness has a particular talent for research and
after consulting with this writer, as is his wish; he is
continuing his own inquiry of these events. Before his
retirement, he was responsible for the livoes of hundreds of
people on a daily basis. Thanks to Tom Sheets [
MUFONGA@webtv.net ]MUFONGA@webtv.net

FLORIDA - THREE STATIONARY, ORANGE, RECTANGULAR LIGHTS

DAYTONA BEACH -- The observers were walking south on the beach
on June 13, 2003, around 11:30 PM, and noticed some unusual
lights over the ocean. The lights were one-third above the
horizon and were an inch to two inches across together. The
lights were rectangular shaped and evenly spaced in a parallel
line. The stationary lights were orange in color and disappeared
like someone had turned off a light switch. We observed them for
about 15 to 30 seconds on a fairly clear night with a few cirrus
clouds over head. It was ao full moon and plenty of stars
visible. After the lights disappeared nothing could be seen
where they once were. I believe it to be one craft, if a UFO.

KEY LARGO -- Three large white star shaped objects flashing at
different times were observed on June 13, 2003, at 11 PM, with
one higher at the top left than the one at the right which was a
little lower. Another one was underneath these but to the right.
Although they flew together they were not in a formation and not
far apart. A similar sphere shaped object was seen the following
night at 10 PM, in Key Largo

NAPLES -- The witness was traveling south on Interstate 75,
eleven miles south of Naples on Friday morning, March 1, 2002,
at 6:22 AM, when he noticed an object in the sky to his front
left. It had three tiny white lights and came closer at a very
slow pace. The witness says, "I was able to make out the shape
very distinctly as a low flying triangle. It was well below the
clouds, and its lights were at each apex. The lights did not
illuminate any portion of the craft. I pulled over to the side
of the road, and sohut off the engine to listen. It was
traveling west and passed by in three minutes. The window was
down, and the engine off, but there was no sound. I turned the
ignition to 'Aux' to hear the shuttle launch on the radio, but,
it was not visible due to the clouds. I looked back and the
object was gone. I noticed the van's digital clock lost two
minutes.

NAPLES - Edwin R writes, "I have a friend that saw either this
same very large black flying triangle craft or one very similar
back in 1996, near the Gulf." He was excited and freaked out. He
said, "It was a triangular shaped craft with either three or
five lights on the black metallic under belly in a triangular
pattern with an array of several smaller lights around the
perimeter of the vehicle. The most astonishing feature was that
it was gliding eight miles per hour, at only 100 yards above the
ground, and woas dead silent. You could probably throw a
baseball and hit it. We feel sure it was not manufactured on
this planet. Thanks to Edwin R.

BAHAMAS - DAYLIGHT SAUCER DESCENDS TO NEARBY BUSHES

THOMPSON BAY (Long Island) -- A husband and wife in their early
50's were heading in a southerly direction on June 9, 2003, at 1
PM, when a saucer shaped craft was seen coming out of the clouds
and descending to the bushes about 300 feet away. The sighting
lasted only ten seconds in the middle of the day and no lights
were seen. No investigation was attempted because it was
impossible to turn off the highway. Other sightings have been
observed before in this same area. The wife is non drinker and
the husband is moderaote drinker. Thanks to Peter Davenport

CARTHAGE - The observer says, "This is going to sound weird, but
I saw something in the sky on June 15, 2003, at 4 PM, that at
first I thought was the space station." I had heard a report
about being able to see it and I've seen it before but what I
saw this time was not the shape, texture or glow of the station.
I often search the skies for an answer to something greater than
life. When I saw the sun-cloud hovering I was speechless. I
wanted to say 'over-here pick me up!' I couldn't scream a word;
which is not olike me. It was like a really bright flashlight,
except it had an another flashlight behind it, a larger one. It
looked like the sun's corona but smaller. Truthfully, I was a
bit taken aback by it. Thanks to Peter Davenport  [
www.nuforc.org ]NUFORC

TENNESSEE - FORMATION OF LIGHTS

SIGNAL MOUNTAIN - The eyewitness was out in his driveway about
3:15 AM on June 10, 2003, because he could not sleep. It was a
clear night and the stars were bright. He states, "Looking
toward the southwest I saw what at first I thought was a
satellite with three lights in a triangle formation moving
toward the northeast at about satellite speed." Two lights were
in front and a single was in back, they were as bright as a
bright star. They were three separate lights as they would close
then move apart, tohere was no sound but they seemed to be very
high then they just faded away. Thanks to Peter Davenport [
www.nuforc.org ]NUFORC

MICHIGAN - SLOW FLYING JET

BRIGHTON - My significant other who runs a real estate office
just called me at 5 PM and said that she just saw something very
odd in the sky above "old US 23" She saw two flat, matte   black
helicopters "escorting" a jet fighter! This jet was also flat
matte black and was maybe 1500 feet high and resembled the types
of planes used by the Blue Angels and the thunderbirds but was
flying at the same speed as small aircraft. She said it was not
a stealth aircraft. Any ideas on what type of military fighteor
is painted flat black and can "chug" along at 200 mph or less.
E-mail report.

MISSOURI -- HOVERING BRIGHT TRIANGULAR SHAPED OBJECT

KANSAS CITY -- On Sunday, June 8, 2003, at about 11 PM, we were
driving south on Highway 435, ten miles from the Kansas State
line, when myself and my two passengers asked each other what
was that object we all had been watching? It was a quarter of a
mile away and was large and very bright. It looked about the
size of a football field, and the top surface seemed to be
covered in very bright lights. The lower side was dark with
rotating red and blue lights. We stopped on the highway, got out
and watched tohe object for five minutes as it just hovered not
moving. After five minutes it started a very slow forward
motion, it flew over a hill and descended and disappeared. There
was no engine or propellers noise. Thanks to Peter Davenport [
www.nuforc.org ]NUFORC

CALIFORNIA - TWO UFO's FLEW IN THE SKY

OXNARD - Two objects flew in different directions but came to a
stop in the sky at about the same height at 8 PM on June 13,
2003. Then one continued downward toward the earth and the other
continued upward at about a 45 degree angle. I lost view of both
after a few minutes. But I recorded it on videotape. [
www.nuforc.org ]NUFORC

WASHINGTON - DAYLIGHT DISC SIGHTING AND PHOTOS

KINGSTON - Dr. Annamarie Johnstone reports she was photographing
chemtrails in the Thriftway Parking Lot on Highway 104 on May
30, 2003. The town is eleven miles east of Bangor submarine
Base, and in the general area where I had photographed a cigar-
shaped cylinder, angled downward and moving to the west on May
12th. I took several 35 mm photos in seconds, facing south with
no craft visible. Upon film development, two sequenced prints
displayed two discs joining, followed by two joined discs in
juxtaposoition, with a very distinct atmospheric ionization
line, for and aft. The craft were moving east over Puget Sound
toward Seattle. Thanks to Dr. Annamarie Johnstone author of "UFO
Defense Tactics" [ phd84@nwinet.com, ]Dr. Johnstone

PUYALLUP -- On June 9, 2003, at 10:32 PM, the witness was laying
on the couch watching TV and talking on the phone, when a red
search light was seen falling from the sky with smoke behind it.
The witness states, "I saw a light shinning in the top right
corner of my slider door that looked like a light that a
searchlight from a helicopter would make. I got up to see what
it was and a bright reddish orange object was falling down out
of the sky. You could see smoke behind it. As it dropped, it got
significantly smaloler to about the size of a dot and then went
behind some trees and then all you could see was the smoke.
Thanks to Peter Davenport [ www.nuforc.org ]NUFORC

ARGENTINA - CATTLE MUTILATION INCIDENT

CUCHILLO CO --"El Diario" (La Pampa) reports that Cuchillo C=F3
was among the most affected areas during last years cattle
mutilation wave that appears, never ceased altogether. The
provincial government, Director of the Ministry of Production,
Nestor Alcala, coordinated the sending of veterinarians to the
Cuchillo C=F3 area to examine the bovine found mutilated in recent
hours in a rural estate. "I asked Juan (Isequilla) to conduct an
urgent experts' analysis and send people to verify any signs
that may be ofound," explained Alcal=E1. The official furthermore
stated that he is not opposed to meeting with area ranchers who
are demanding a thorough explanation of these events. The
minister pointed out that "we were unable to find anything
because the previous cases involved animals in a state of
decomposition, this case interests me because this rancher
speaks of a considerable number of mutilated animals." This is
why we want to see them and analyze them," added Alcal=E1. The
young rancher who filed his complainto is the same cattleman who
lost twelve cattle last March. "This can't go on. The number of
mutilated animals stands at 17 and we haven't found a way of
stopping these strange events. Thanks to El Diario and Scott
Corrales Institue of Hispanic Ufology.

A NEW UFO FLAP HAS BROKEN OUT IN UK

BRIDGEND, WALES - The observer was staring out the window at
12:31 AM, on June 9, 2003, and saw a bright object south of his
house near Cardiff, a few miles in the distance. He states, "It
was stationary and much too big and bright for a star." After a
few minutes it moved very quickly in the opposite direction to
me, still silent, before vanishing after a few more minutes. I
was terrified by this time.

SALFORD, ENGLAND - FLYING TRIANGLE SPOTTED -- Warren Knocerman
states, "The last sighting was June 19, 2002, at 12:35 AM, when
I saw a big triangle shaped object in the sky change shape into
a circle and disappear over Irlam in Salford. I've seen it 13
times now I'm getting sick of it. Thanks to Warren Knocerman
kay@maxieshouse73.freeserve.co.uk

WORCESTER AND HENDON -- "The witness rang Contact International
UFO Research, in Oxfordshire to report, "A triangular object
with a shiny tail behind it has been sighted across the
Worcester skies." "A man in St. John's claims he saw the strange
triangular shape with six lights on the left-hand side and six
lights on the right-hand side on Tuesday, June 3, 2003, around 1
AM." "It was moving towards the Malvern area with a shining tail
behind it."

"On May 31, a man and his wife, say they spotted a white light
above Worcester Cathedral." "'The light suddenly shot off
towards Birmingham,' said Michael Soper, spokesman for Contact
International." "And in Kidderminster, on June 4, two people say
they saw a pearl-shaped object flying over Coventry Street as
they were driving home." "'It was hovering in the sky; then it
darted out of sight,' said Mr. Soper. "The Evening News told
people in the Malvern area to look out for unexplained objects
after three triangular objects were seen moving southwest over
Birmingham on the same night." On June 16, at 7:08 p.m.,
eyewitness N.C. "saw a UFO appear in Hendon, near London. He
reported, "It was flying high with green flashing lights, and my
friend, who had binoculars, says he saw little red men. Before I
fainted, I took a quick look and saw something red that was
shiny with green lights around," at 1,500 meters Many thanks to
Robert Fischer and Contact International.

BELGIUM - FLYING TRIANGLES RETURN

ANTWERP -- A 19 year old resident from Edegem spotted a
triangular shaped object on May 14, round 1 o'clock at night,
while driving home on his motorcycle. On June 20, he sighted the
triangle again with flashing lights hovering 125 meters above a
house. He drove to the object and the UFO gradually departed and
accelerated. The biker had to speed up to 20 km/h to keep up.
Somewhat farther, the object halted again above a house. The
witness put his motorcycle aside and waved to it, but there was
no reaction and no sound. From beneath, it looked like a
triangle, but without sharp edges.  Besides the flashing lights,
the object had blue and red lights. From behind, the object
looked like a "flattened pyramid-shape." He tried to make
"contact" with a laserpointer but didn't succeed. After a
minute, the object began accelerating again; first jerkily and
then fast. The biker got on his bike, and followed it to the
next town, at high speeds. Near a bridge the UFO accelerated and
disappeared. Thanks to Toine Trust [ http://www.ufoplaza.nl/
]http://www.ufoplaza.nl/

NETHERLANDS - UFO RUNWAY BUILT

HOUTEN -- The coming of the so-called "runway for UFOs" along a
Dutch highway is a fact. The Dutch artist Martin Riebeek is
going to furnish two traffic circles as a piece of art. On the
first traffic circle, there will be a blue glow over a concrete
plate: the landing strip. The other one is being decorated with
a six meter high air-traffic control tower that guides the
aliens to the runaway. The UFO pilots are warned, when a yellow
light shines it's too busy to land. The area between the two
traffic circoles gets on either sides blue pillars. Sponsoring
from companies funds raised 190.000-euro ($225.000). Thanks to:
Toine Trust Site: ganzEgal@UFOPlaza.nl "

SPAIN - UFO VIDEOTAPED

GIJON -- A UFO was videotaped in Northern Spain on the Bay of
Biscay on June 23, 2003 at 11:55 AM. Anyos Luz News reports,
"The sighting took place within the framework of the traditional
celebrations of St. John's Eve when 'A light crossed the sky,
making strange movements. The object resembled a star moving in
the distance and passes over some buildings. It was a large
thing that flew away very swiftly. Thanks to Scott Corrales
Institue of Spanish Ufology

RUSSIAN - FISHERMAN SEE GREEN UFO

Pravda reports, "Fishermen in Russia say they have been driven
to drink by a UFO that regularly passes over them near
Yekaterinburg, in western Russia. They claim to have repeatedly
seen the small green UFO over the last two years. Some locals
admitted they become anxious when they see the object, described
by eyewitnesses as a small green object the size of a light bulb
and most recently sighted on June 20. But local fishermen, who
claim to see it more often than anyone else, say that every time
it pasoses over them they have an almost unquenchable thirst for
alcohol. Thanks to Pravda.ru
http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_793482.html

YEKATERINBURG --Pravda reports that a rather unique phenomenon,
was filmed by several cameramen from Pervouralsk and
Yekaterinburg on the night of June 2003. Witnesses describe the
phenomenon as something resembling a bright beautiful comet
moving underneath clouds. The UFO brightly lit the night sky and
then disappeared Tomilova an eyewitness, journalist says that
the UFO is a small green object of a bulb size. The object can
be seen only at night and flies along the same trajectory. It
emerges in the sky above the olocal matchmaking factory, then it
slowly moves along the Tura River towards the pulp plant, turns
toward a railway bridge and flies to the city of Tavda.
http://english.pravda.ru/science/19/94/378/10299_UFOgreen.html

WEST SIBERIA -- On Sunday evening, June 29, 2003, Russian 1st TV
channel broadcast a report from Okunevo (region of the city of
Omsk, Siberia. Interviews with local residents were shown and a
multitude of testimonies claim there are numerous anomalous
phenomena in nearby forests and lakes. The so-called Shay'tan
(Devils) Lake that is considered "bottomless" has numerous
reports. Local residents regularly view numerous UFOs looking
like "fiery globes", "saucers" over the area. One male witness
stated that an undergrouond cavity was found in that location at
16 meters deep. He stated there is an underground tunnel that
goes to the ancient temple located underground as well. (From TV
report, program "Namedni"). Thanks to Anton A.Anfalov
an@crimea.com

UKRAINE --CYLINDER UFO WITH EMBLEM CAUSES FLAP OVER CRIMEA

SIMFEROPOL -- Anton A.Anfalov our Research specialist for MUFON
in Ukraine reports, "The UFO flap over the Crimean peninsula in
the Southern Ukraine, was very active during June and indicates
the definite presence of several underground alien bases in our
region.  On Saturday, June 21, 2003, at 11:35 PM, an amazing
object was seen over Simferopol' flying from east - to north,
from the direction of Black Sea towards Moscow. This was a dull-
grey cylinder with with a bright front light and six dull-white
windows. Theo front part of this cylinder was more elongated and
protruded forward like a bird. The craft was big 200 meters long
and 40 meters in diameter and flying low.. It was clearly
visible and was likely a fascinating mother ship . An emblem was
noticed in the front part of the cylinder, reflected by the
front light. This emblem was like vertical rhomb or diamond with
a horizontal line in the middle, or two triangles joined
together.

SIMFEROPOL' -- On Sunday, June 22, at 10 PM, Anton saw a UFO
hovering directly in front of the windows of his flat, near the
nearby 9-storied building on Prospect Pobedy (Victory highway).
The object was about 200 meters above the town creating three
bright white flashes at an interval of 7 to 10 seconds. This was
definitely not an airplane, and the intervals between the
flashes were long, indicating that the object was almost
hovering over the same place. The exact shape was not visible
since it was dark. There was oan airplane with a clearly visible
red blinking light and auxiliary lights flying behind the UFO.

On June 24, two UFOs were observed over Simferopol', both flying
north. The first was at 22:10, and second at 22:15. Both were
disk-shaped, or "hat-shaped." The first was brightly shining;
the second suddenly increased and decreased its brightness,
vividly demonstrating itself. Mrs. Lenura Azizova states, "I
clearly saw the shining of the silver hull of this craft that
was flying at a very low altitude of about 150-200 meters above
me." The dull-grey object was shaped like two deep saucers
joined togethero. It was ten meters in diameter and five meters
high. It was like inside a cloud of dust visibly spraying some
powder or aerosol around it.  Thanks to Anton A.Anfalov [
an@crimea.com ]an@crimea.com an@crimea.com

AUSTRALIA VERY BRIGHT LIGHT ABOVE HORIZON

BRISBANE - We were driving as the sun was going down on June 14,
2003, when my partner pointed at a stationary bright light in
the sky at 5:20 PM, that looked like a very bright star. I
pulled over to look and I noticed someone behind us also pulled
over, got out of their car and was looking. To the right of us
were dwellings, and I noticed someone taking photos of the
object, we could see the camera flash. This object started to
drop in altitude. It looked like a very bright teardrop about
the size of a poea and flew behind the trees. We moved the car
but could not find it any more. The sun was behind the object,
yet it had a very intense light. ( [ www.nuforc.org ]NUFORC
Note: Witness provides photograph, which does, indeed, look
bizarre. If the second light in the sky is not caused by ice
crystals refracting the Sun's light, then we do not know what
the object is. PD)

NEW JERSEY - OPC-3 IMPROVES HEALTH

I was tired of being tired, my daughter had serious case of skin
rash called psoriasis, my son and wife were suffering from
allergies. They were sneezing and had running noses. I happen to
have a friend Graham who is an MD. While we were talking in my
living room, I asked his advice for these problems. He stated,
"He takes OPC - 3 along with his loved ones and most of his
patients."  It's made from a unique combination of grape seed,
pine bark, bilberry, red wine, and citrus extracts. These OPC's
are super-effective free radical neutralizers and antioxidants,
that build up your immune system so your body heals itself. I
bought some of the OPC-3 and it increased my energy, improved my
vision, helped me breathe better and helped with nagging pain.
My daughters red skin lesions cleared up, and both my son and my
wife's allergies cleared. , prevent heart disease, heal varicose
veins, reduce pain and inflammation? Many people complain of
allergies, skin, back, lung, or heart problems because we often
fail to provide the necessary nutrition for our immune system to
heal us. My daughters psoriasis was cleared up in a week after
years if treatment. The cost is only an about a dollar a day to
feel and have youthful skin.

I was so impressed, I have made it available to my readers. A
large size should lasts for 3 months and is a much better buy.
Click on the link that could change your life!  OPC-3

Want to grow hair and stop graying? Try our anti-aging product
HGH Enhancer

WHAT YOU SHOULD KNOW WHEN BUY OR SELL REAL ESTATE!

Get your free report and learn how you can obtain the best real
estate agent to help your buy or sell a home. To get a free copy
of this report e-mail me at : [ Majorstrar@aol.com
]Majorstar@aol.com

MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative
reports subscribe to the MUFON JOURNAL. A MUFON membership
includes the Journal and costs only $35.00 per year. To join
MUFON or to report a UFO go to http://www.mufon.com/. To ask
questions contact [ MUFONHQ@aol.com ]MUFONHQ@aol.com or
HQ@mufon.com. Mention that I recommended you for membership.
"The MUFON Journal is now accepting qualified advertising,
please call 1 (303) 932-7709 for more information."

Filer's Files is copyrighted 2003 by George A. Filer, all rights
reserved. Readers may post the COMPLETE files on their Web Sites
if they credit the Newsletter and its editor by name and list
the date of issue. These reports and comments are not
necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON viewpoint. Send your letters to
Majorstar@aol.com. Sending mail automatically grants permission
for us to publish and use your name. Please state if you wish to
keep your name or e-mail confidential. CAUTION, MOST OF THESE
ARE INITIAL REPORTS AND REQUIRE FURTHER INVESTIGATION.

Regards,

George A. Filer  [ http://www.georgefiler.com/
]www.GeorgeFiler.com/











                         The UFO UpDates Archive
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 2

               Re: Largest UFO Database In The World? - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 11:58:20 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 13:32:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Largest UFO Database In The World? - Hatch


>From: Charlette LeFevre <clefevre@oz.net>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 00:38:16 -0700 (MST)
>Subject: Re: Largest UFO Database In The World?

>>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
>>To: Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 12:29:39 -0700
>>Subject: Largest UFO Database In The World?

>>I stumbled upon this links page:

>>http://www.ufovideo.net/LINKS.html

>>...which had this curious link:

>>"A UFO RESOURCE CENTER
>>Posted by CJ Montgomery on Saturday, 13 April 2002, at 6:22 pm.
>>UFOs, flying saucers and alien encounters. The extraterrestrial
>>hypothesis is explored, military cover-up exposed. Submit a UFO
>>report online. Search thousands of pages of UFO pictures,
>>articles and research we are the largest UFO database in the
>>world. We are an International UFO research organization .."

>>Clicking on the hyperlink got me here:

>>http://www.uforc.com/

>>.. with lots of things like Crop Circles, UFOs in the Bible,
>>Anti-Gravity, the UFO-Jesus connection(?) .. there is even a
>>link to "Why Couldn't Planet X Return?".

..and..

>>"Consult with our panel of UFO experts. We are here to answer
>>your questions about UFOs, aliens or whatever you may ask. CLICK
>>HERE..." (UFO Advisory Panel)

>>http://www.uforc.com/ufoap/index.html

>>I did, and found the panel of UFO experts, each with a picture.
>>My question is this: Does anybody know these experts? Anything
>>about them? Maybe I'm in the dark here, but I couldn't
>>recognize a single name or face.

>>I'd like to know more about the "biggest UFO Database in the
>>World". Are they referring to UFOCAT? NUFORC? .. or have they
>>compiled their own database?

>You are correct in your speculation about this "UFO Resource
>Center".

>I believe I can comment on this website and this claim of
>"biggest UFO Database in the World" as I have met this guy
>Christopher Montgomery and he operates (or tries to) out of my
>hometown, Kent, in the State of Washington - a suburb of
>Seattle.

>Essentially its a one man operating web site reposting others
>information with nothing original and a network of several
>friends (and I didn't even think they are still active from a
>few years ago until I read your message). A testament to don't
>believe everything you read on the internet.

>I met Chris briefly at an event several years ago and as I
>recall Chris is a character similar to "Ted Baxter" on the "Mary
>Tayler Moore show" - a melodramatic newscaster.

>My issue with Chris Montgomery is in the past he has taken my
>email announcements and posted his name to them. I asked him
>to kindly stop posting my messages.

>As to whether he has the "biggest UFO Database in the World"...
>that remains to be seen.

>I also believe discriminating people prefer quality of
>information over size. :)


Hello Charlette:

I browsed and clicked around trying to find the "largest UFO
Database", but got nowhere. It turns out that only paid members
have access!

Thus a browser has to kick in $5 via Pay-Pal even to see if his
own materials have been plagiarized!

If anyone here does have access, I would like to know a lot more
about the contents of the UFORC Database.

If its mostly pix, then he could bloat his files to any size
rapidly, and be "largest" in terms of bytes if not bandwidth.

Maybe a browse of the individual names on the "Panel of Experts"
will tell us even more. Thanks for the info on Montgomery. I
agree that quality should come before quantity, but that takes
real work. Copycats are not about to do that, if that's what we
have here.





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 2

                   Disclosure Australia Announcement - 02

From: Diane Harrison - AUFORN <auforn@hypermax.net.au>
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 17:38:35 +1000
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 13:35:42 -0400
Subject: Disclosure Australia Announcement - 02


Disclosure Australia announces that the second edition of the
Project newsletter has been posted at:

http://disclosure.freewebpage.org

and is now available for reading.

This issue features:

-a report on the start of the search for Government documents

-The proposed process for case file submissions to the Project
 Archive.

Happy reading.

--

Thank you for participating.

The Disclosure Australia Project is sponsored by the Australian
UFO Research Network

http://www.hypermax.net.au/~auforn/

PO Box 738,
Beaudesert,
Queensland, 4285
E-mail: auforn@hypermax.net.au
Tel/Fax 07 55 44 6888
UFO Hotline 1800 77 22 88

Project Secretary AURA
Australian UFO Research Association.

Snail mail:
The Secretariat, Disclosure Australia,
PO Box 786, North Adelaide,
South Australia  5006
E-mail: disclosureaustralia@yahoo.com.au
Telephone:    041 141 7594.

AURA its Mission Statement and Aims
can be found at: http://aura.freewebpage.org

Project web presence at
http://disclosure.freewebpage.org







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 2

             Re: Electrolyte Imbalances In The Abductee - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 13:14:42 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 14:22:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Electrolyte Imbalances In The Abductee - Velez


>From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
>Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:46:42 -0300
>Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 23:09:55 -0400
>Subject: Electrolyte Imbalances In The Abductee

>Source: Darkufo

>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/darkufo/message/3569

>Patricia Gray, R.N. writes that the collective stats from Saber
>Enterprises results in a high number of reports from abductees
>concerning low potassium (K) levels (some of which seem to be at
>a "critical level" and need emergent treatment. There is, also,
>the interesting report of "salt cravings" among abductees and as
>far as I have heard, none of these abductees reporting salt
>craving are ever put on salt restrictions by their physicians
>related to conditions that are exacerbated by the heavy (or even
>normal) use of salt. In other words, perhaps their bodies need
>more salt, and then of course the question would be, "Why?" I am
>including salt cravings in this overview because salt is sodium
>chloride (NaCl) which are two electrolytes, as potassium is and
>craving can sometimes mean, "lack".

One day... probably in a parallel dimension, a proper medical
study of abductees will be undertaken by an _independent_
research organization.

For those who don't know, "Sabre Enterprises" is Derrel Simms'
group/project. For those who are unfamiliar with the 'alien
hunter' and nemesis of Mondoz*, Derrel Simms he is one
individual that has done more to discredit and to set _back_ the
study of UFO abductions (IMHO) than just about anybody else.
_Any_ information that originates from him, or his 'Sabre
Enterprises' is to be taken with a huge block of salt.

Here we have a 'report' with no mention of:

1. ... how many 'abductees' were tested.

2. How they were chosen for inclusion in the study. What
criteria was used to select them as 'abductees.'

3. Which tests were performed? Or, why those specific tests were
chosen?

4. Who performed the tests and under what conditions? What were
the credentials/qualifications of those conducting the 'tests'?

5. What percentage of those tested showed the symptoms
mentioned. Part of the group? All of them?

6. Why is a 'Registered Nurse' is presenting the results to the
public and not the doctors who conducted the tests? (Assuming
the tests were performed by competent, licensed, board certified
physicians.)

In spite of any pretensions of being a "report of the findings
of a scientific study," plainly, this is not. This one turns out
to be just another one of those speculative "unnamed sources
say" kind of a report. The nurse spouts a lot of questionable
statistics without providing one iota of information about how
it was obtained and by whom.

We who participate in the day to day doings in ufology need to
set the bar a lot higher than this. We should all demand clear,
concise reports that have been published and peer reviewed
_before_ being offered for consumption by the general public.
(Posted to the Internet.) This is precisely how websites who
spread rumor and pure speculation have become so prevalent on
the Internet.

Because of this "report" you'll soon hear people talking about
how 'all abductees' are salt and potassium deficient as if it
was proven fact. Or how all abductees are 'incontinent' as
another alleged study (prematurely) revealed. It's all nonsense
that in the end only serves to further cloud an already murky
issue.

We need some hard science applied to the question of abduction.
We need to demand that it be the best that is available. We need
to insure that these kinds of reports are held to the highest
standards. Otherwise they are virtually useless and a complete
waste of time and resources.

Enough already. If Sabre Enterprises -which is not an
organization that is independent of the phenomenon it is
allegedly studying, - wishes to file a public report of some
scientific findings, then let it do it the right way. Better
yet, let us hear about it via the Journal of the American
Medical Association, or some other peer reviewed publication.

And not from an unknown R.N. via a UFO List on the Internet.

And as an aside... I am an 'abductee' and because of coronary
artery disease I am on very restricted salt intake. Nothing
wrong with _my_ potassium or salt levels. Enough of this
'science by proclamation.' We need to know 'who, how, when,
where, why.'

Personal opinion respectfully submitted,


John Velez
Speaking strictly for myself









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 2

                    Re: Out Of The Blue On Sci-Fi - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 13:51:19 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 14:24:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Out Of The Blue On Sci-Fi - Velez


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 19:10:53 -0400
>Subject: Re: Out Of The Blue On Sci-Fi

>>From: James Oberg <jamesoberg@houston.rr.com>
>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 13:28:22 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Out Of The Blue On Sci-Fi

><snip>

>>"Out of the Blue" makes an excellent prosecutorial-style case
>>for the reality of UFOs, and is a skilled piece of advocacy.
>>However, it does not appear to be interested in 'truth', as the
>>numerous omissions, misleading half-truths, and clear
>>misstatements of 'fact' indicate. It covers up contrary
>>evidence, while accusing others of doing the same. To fulfill
>>the publicly announced goal, the SciFi channel should offer its
>>viewers access - perhaps through its own home page - to the
>>`contrary' views like those shown here, so that the evidence FOR
>>the reality of UFOs can be compelled to stand on its merits, and
>>not by default.

Hello Herr Oberg, Steve, All,

Steve responded:

>James-
>
>Some of the points you've raised are well taken, but neither
>"Out of the Blue" nor your criticisms will likely impress the
>scientific community as a whole. Somehow the field will have to
>rise above the personalities and knee-jerk reactions that seem
>to prevail on both sides in this genre, but it doesn't appear
>that this will happen any time soon.

My post about 'Out of the Blue' was purely and simply and
expression of my personal opinion about the production. I must
admit to being a bit surprised by Herr Oberg's _fourteen page_
tome of a response to it.

Man, the program must have been more powerful than even I
suspected for it to have motivated him to spout skepti-bunker
chapter and verse the way he did. He must have a lot of time on
his all-knowing and self-assured hands now-a-days.

More...

Mr. Oberg appears to have no compunction about inferring that
former astronaut (and American hero) Gordon Cooper is a liar.
Ditto for Robert Jacobs. Herr Oberg is so very sure (and full)
of himself and his facts, so sure that he has a good handle on
things, that he realtes to the rest of us as if nothing and no
one can stand up to his _*omniscience.

*omniscient (Om-nish-ee-ent) adj.
1. Having total knowledge; knowing everything.

-omniscient n.
1. One having total knowledge.
2. Omniscient. God.

>The "experts" you've quoted also have their own baggage to deal
>with, and if you're throwing names around because you believe
>that everyone on this List holds them in high esteem you're in
>for a rude awakening.

One who chooses to ignore the _overwhelming_ evidence for UFOs
as Herr Oberg does, is in for a "rude awakening" period.

>In my short comment on the program after the premiere in
>Washington DC, I stated that there were sections of the program
>that everyone would likely have a problem with. However, the
>overall production was well done and far more reasonable that
>most programs aired on the subject today. Actaully, I think your
>criticism shows how powerful the program probably was, in that
>you felt the need to launch such an attack. A few critical
>comments would have sufficed.

I couldn't agree with your comments more, Steve. The 'over the
top' reaction to this one program is not only curious but most
revealing.

My best,

John Velez, Speaking strictly for myself








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 2

                  'Crop Circles: Signs of Contact' A Review

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 21:14:13 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 16:14:04 -0400
Subject: 'Crop Circles: Signs of Contact' A Review


Crop Circles: Signs of Contact

by Colin Andrews (with Stephen J. Spignesi)

review by Mac Tonnies

http://www.mactonnies.com/bookreviews.html


I approached "Crop Circles: Signs of Contact" as a tourist might
approach a country intimately familiar from maps and travelogues
but nonetheless foreign enough to entice. Andrews' book -- a
crowded, sometimes repititious tome suffused with the author's
New Age-y interpretation of the enduring crop circle mystery --
 is ultimately less than I expected, but not without its
highlights. For example, Andrews gives us a number of
tantalizing anecdotes that no-one but the most committed
debunkers can readily dismiss as collective hysteria. But
Andrews neglects to share the entirety of hard scientific
evidence he insists proves that some crop formations are of
unknown manufacture. A passing attempt is made to demonstrate
how the cells of affected crops have been changed (perhaps by
microwave radiation), but Andrews too often spends valuable
page-space recounting his ideas about environmental maladies and
cosmic consciousness.

Structurally, "Signs of Contact" is scattered and
underdeveloped. Reading it is like wading through a combination
memoir/press release/scrapbook. Most readers looking for an
uncluttered, objective overview at the crop circle controversy
will be left wanting. But despite his narrative failing, Andrews
has several things going for him: he's passionate and sincere
about his field of study and he writes with a pervading optimism
and justifiable sense of wonder. While Andrews definitely "want
to believe" that crop circles represent a nonhuman intelligence
of some kind, he's not afraid to address the rampant hoaxing
that's plagued British fields; his insider's perspective on
self-proclaimed crop artists and frauds is arguably his book's
most trenchant aspect.

So, is something truly unexplained going on? Probably.
Unfortunately, "Signs of Contact" isn't the definitive reference
I expected from a veteran researcher.







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 2

                    Mars Photos From Dr. Tom Van Flandern

From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net>
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 10:00:18 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 17:06:27 -0400
Subject: Mars Photos From Dr. Tom Van Flandern


Hi -

Enclosed here below is a list of NASA photos extracted from raw
Mars Global Surveyor photos of the surface of Mars, displayed by
Dr. Tom Van Flandern, who was on Coast to Coast AM Monday night.
(Yes, I know that Coast to Coast AM is suspect.)

Dr. Van Flandern started a career in astronomy, but became
frustrated by the hair trigger judgements by his colleagues that
observed astronomical anomalies were frivolous and not fit
subjects for serious study. He and like-minded helpers now study
such anomalies and report on them via his web site:

http://www.metaresearch.org

The Mars Face (Cydonia region) is one such anomaly. Now that the
surface of Mars is being photographed in detail with high
resolution cameras, there are tons and tons of new data which
haven't been fully analyzed. Dr. Van Flandern combs through
NASA's raw data, and reported on a number of interesting new
photos of Martian anomalies last night on Coast to Coast AM.

I saved a few from the Coast to Coast web site which appear most
interesting and they can be directly called up from the links
below much more quickly than either Coast to Coast's site or Dr.
Van Flandern's. All are around 50-65K:

http://www.raven1.net/crownedface.jpe (new "face")
http://www.raven1.net/child.jpe  (l-h photo is untouched)
http://www.raven1.net/glasstube.jpe (the tubes are ribbed)
http://www.raven1.net/tubenetwork.jpe
http://www.raven1.net/hexcrater.jpe
http://www.raven1.net/plaintrack.jpe


Eleanor White






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 2

                        Website Of UFO Cult In Brazil

From: Charlette LeFevre <clefevre@oz.net>
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 22:14:44 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 17:42:10 -0400
Subject: Website Of UFO Cult In Brazil


Hi All,

For your consumer awareness

http://www.portal2.org.br/

A site with photos of Urandir Oliveira who has been promoting
here in the U.S. of his claims of abduction and his "Project
Portal" buildings, "extraterrestrial" caverns and claimed
healing water holes.

Photos of extensive commercialism including a building marked
"Projeto Portal" - photos that other mis-leading 'reports' did
not show of this claimed "humble farmer" in which former
followers are calling another Jim Jones and Heaven's Gate.






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 2

                         Disclosure Dialogue #01-05

From: Victor Viggiani <zland@sympatico.ca>
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 03:13:20 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 17:45:48 -0400
Subject: Disclosure Dialogue #01-05


The Media Ransom

Don't be afraid. It won't hurt.

The only risk is a few keystrokes and waking up a media mogul or
two plus a Congressional Chairperson to the ideals of ETI truth.

If you are a web master, a moderator of a list or even someone
with status in a UFO group or yes... researcher look on. Develop
a consensus in your constituency about what goes on here.

WHAT DOES GOES ON HERE?
There are several ways to approach disclosure. Disclosure
Dialogue has suggested a few approaches to the sleeping
awareness of those who wish only to speak about lights in the
sky. The wedge of opportunity, like a lightbulb in a dark room
is waiting to be ignited. It is so easy to rap on about where we
are. Oh so difficult to talk about where we need to be.

Now, it could be time to answer the ransom note of 50 years of
cover-up. Place a note in the drawer of clear thinker. Educate.
We are the teachers... they are the learners.

The SCI-FI Channel nibbles at the edge of Disclosure in an oh
so... tantalizing manner. They seek a constituency. Ms. Hammer
go at it and good on ya!! Explain your motives real soon. They
must be above a profit motive.

Watergate was built on such... the next Watergate is an ETI-Gate
or UFO-Gate. Hate to characterize it like that but you and I
know it'll be that way... soon.

But there needs to be more radical people willing to take
radical means to make a point towards opening the gate.

HOW and WHY?
With the recent news that some Senators in the USA will re-
assess (vote down) the FCC decision to allow easy merging of
large comm. companies, it is imperative we take advantage of
this impending vote by asking congressional committees to look
at the dissemination of Disclosure information. The ransom for
control of the media could be mitigated if we speak soon enough.
Those who are sharp in Congress may see that media control is
linked to journalistic black-balling of anyone who wishes to
write the truth about ETUI presence. That's got be reversed.

Below is a list of Senate reps of committees charged with
communication issues.

Congratulate them on their decision to stop merger actions.
Diversity of views is essential.

Let them know how you feel about the precision of the ETI Issue
and ask for a response...now.

Let them know the SCI-FI Channel is on to something that needs
exposure... the widest and most continuous exposure ever in
media history. In a court of law, if the evidence was this
massive, the verdict would be obvious... guilty of ransoming the
truth for 50 years. They are our representatives and the need,
no the imperative, of their response to their constituency's
concerns is crucial and absolute.

Become a constituency.

Now could be time to answer the ransom note of 50 years of
cover-up. Place a note in the drawer of clear thinker. Educate.
We are the teachers... they are the learners.

Radicalize and politicize with an e-mail to these...those who
say they speak for you:

Sen. John McCain
Republican - Arizona
Chairman 241 Russell Senate Office Bldg
Washington, DC 20510

Phone: 202-224-2335
Website: http://www.senate.gov/~mccain/
Email: mailto:john_mccain@mccain.senate.gov
Member of the Communications Subcommittee: No
Sen. Ted Stevens
Republican - Alaska
522 Hart Senate Office Bldg
Washington, DC 20510

Phone: 202-224-3004
Website: http://www.senate.gov/~stevens/
Email: http://stevens.senate.gov/webform.htm
Member of the Communications Subcommittee: Yes
Sen. Conrad Burns
Republican - Montana
187 Dirksen Senate Office Bldg
Washington, DC 20510

Phone: 202-224-2644
Website: http://www.senate.gov/~burns/
Email: http://burns.senate.gov/index.cfm?FuseAction=Home.Contact
Member of the Communications Subcommittee: Yes
Sen. Trent Lott
Republican - Mississippi
487 Russell Senate Office Bldg
Washington, DC 20510

Phone: 202-224-6253
Website: http://lott.senate.gov
Email: mailto:senatorlott@lott.senate.gov
Member of the Communications Subcommittee: Yes
Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchinson
Republican - Texas
284 Russell Senate Office Bldg
Washington, DC 20510

Phone: 202-224-5922
Website: http://www.senate.gov/~hutchinson/
Email: mailto:senator@hutchinson.senate.gov
Member of the Communications Subcommittee: Yes
Sen. Olympia Snowe
Republican - Maine
250 Russell Senate Office Bldg
Washington, DC 20510

Phone: 202-224-5344
Website: http://www.senate.gov/~snowe/
Email: mailto:Olympia@snowe.senate.gov
Member of the Communications Subcommittee: Yes
Sen. Sam Brownback
Republican - Kansas
303 Hart Senate Office Bldg
Washington, DC 20510

Phone: 202-224-6521
Website: http://www.senate.gov/~brownback/
Email: http://brownback.senate.gov/CMEmailMe.html
Member of the Communications Subcommittee: Yes
Sen. Gordon Smith
Republican - Oregon
404 Russell Senate Office Bldg
Washington, DC 20510

Phone: 202-224-3753
Website: http://www.senate.gov/~smith/
Email: http://gsmith.senate.gov/webform.html
Member of the Communications Subcommittee: Yes
Sen. Peter G. Fitzgerald
Republican - Illinois
555 Dirksen Senate Office Bldg
Washington, DC 20510

Phone: 202-224-2854
Website: http://www.senate.gov/~fitzgerald/
Email: http://fitzgerald.senate.gov/contact/contact_email.html
Member of the Communications Subcommittee: Yes
Sen. John Ensign
Republican - Nevada
290 Russell Senate Office Bldg
Washington, DC 20510

Phone: 202-224-2854
Website: http://www.senate.gov/~ensign/
Email: http://ensign.senate.gov/contact_john/contactjohn_email.html
Member of the Communications Subcommittee: Yes
Sen. George Allen
Republican - Virginia
708 Hart Senate Office Bldg
Washington, DC 20510

Phone: 202-224-4024
Website: http://www.senate.gov/~allen/
Email: http://allen.senate.gov/email.html
Member of the Communications Subcommittee: Yes
Sen. John Sununu
Republican - New Hampshire
C4 Russell Senate Office Bldg
Washington, DC 20510

Phone: 202-224-2841
Website: http://www.senate.gov/~Sununu/
Email: mailto:mailbox@sununu.senate.gov
Member of the Communications Subcommittee: Yes
Sen. Ernest F. Hollings
Democrat - South Carolina
Ranking 125 Russell Senate Office Bldg
Washington, DC 20510

Phone: 202-224-6121
Website: http://www.senate.gov/~hollings/
Email: http://hollings.senate.gov/email.html
Member of the Communications Subcommittee: Yes
Sen. Daniel K. Inouye
Democrat - Hawaii
722 Hart Senate Office Bldg
Washington, DC 20510

Phone: 202-224-6472
Website: http://www.senate.gov/~inouye/
Email: http://inouye.senate.gov/email.html
Member of the Communications Subcommittee: Yes
Sen John D. Rockefeller IV
Democrat - West Virginia
531 Hart Senate Office Bldg
Washington, DC 20510

Phone: 202-224-6472
Website: http://www.senate.gov/~rockefeller/
Email: mailto:senator@rockefeller.senate.gov
Member of the Communications Subcommittee: Yes
Sen. John F. Kerry
Democrat - Massachussetts
304 Russell Senate Office Bldg
Washington, DC 20510

Phone: 202-224-2742
Website: http://www.senate.gov/~kerry/
Email: mailto:john_kerry@kerry.senate.gov
Member of the Communications Subcommittee: Yes
Sen. John B. Breaux
Democrat - Louisiana
503 Hart Senate Office Bldg
Washington, DC 20510

Phone: 202-224-4623
Website: http://www.senate.gov/~breaux/
Email: mailto:senator@breaux.senate.gov
Member of the Communications Subcommittee: Yes
Sen. Byron L. Dorgan
Democrat - North Dakota
713 Hart Senate Office Bldg
Washington, DC 20510

Phone: 202-224-2235
Website: http://www.senate.gov/~dorgan/
Email: mailto:senator@dorgan.senate.gov
Member of the Communications Subcommittee: Yes
Sen. Ron Wyden
Democrat - Oregon
516 Hart Senate Office Bldg
Washington, DC 20510

Phone: 202-224-5244
Website: http://www.senate.gov/~wyden/
Email: http://wyden.senate.gov/contact.html
Member of the Communications Subcommittee: Yes
Sen. Barbara Boxer
Democrat - California
112 Hart Senate Office Bldg
Washington, DC 20510

Phone: 202-224-3553
Website: http://www.senate.gov/~boxer/
Email: http://boxer.senate.gov/contact
Member of the Communications Subcommittee: Yes
Sen. Bill Nelson
Democrat - Florida
716 Hart Senate Office Bldg
Washington, DC 20510

Phone: 202-225-5274
Website: http://www.senate.gov/~nelson/
Email: http://billnelson.senate.gov/contact/index.cfm#email
Member of the Communications Subcommittee: Yes
Sen. Maria Cantwell
Democrat - Washington
717 Hart Senate Office Bldg
Washington, DC 20510

Phone: 202-224-3441
Website: http://www.senate.gov/~cantwell/
Email: http://cantwell.senate.gov/contact/index.html
Member of the Communications Subcommittee: Yes
Sen. Frank Lautenberg
Democrat - New Jersey
825A Hart Senate Office Bldg
Washington, DC 20510

Phone: 202-224-3224
Website: http://www.senate.gov/~lautenberg/
Email: http://lautenberg.senate.gov/webform.html
Member of the Communications Subcommittee: No

For Canadians see the 'Questions to Parliament' for the
addresses of MPs.

'The voices tell me what to say... what do I believe...?  I
believe what I know is the truth.' anon


Respectfully Submitted

Victor Viggiani








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 2

                        'Larry King Live' On Roswell

From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 05:53:35 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 17:48:01 -0400
Subject: 'Larry King Live' On Roswell


First impression:  it was awful, appalling, dreadful to watch
Glenn Dennis and Walter Haut hesitate and stumble over answers
or, when addressed, sit in silence.

We were treated to King saying, "Go ahead. I'm hearing someone
else talking. Go ahead. Go ahead, Glenn. Continue. All right, I
think that's Walter talking. I think we're trying to talk to
Walter at the same time we're talking to Glenn. One at a time.
Glenn, what call did you get?"

Why is larry King asking archeologist William Doleman questions
outside of his expertise as an archeologist and what he was
employed to do by the SCI FI channel?

Example:

KING: Doctor Doleman, are there others?

DOLEMAN: Unfortunately, I'm totally not an expert in the UFO
phenomenon. And I am an expert in archaeology, and finding
physical evidence. But I'm afraid I can't answer that question.

Nancy Easely Johnston said nothing about her father, Major Edwin
Easely's death-bed admission that bodies were found at the crash
site, just that something big happened!

Then Leslie Kean is asked about Kecksburg! Why not another
Roswell expert or witness?

Schmitt did alright, though now controversial, but no sign of
Stan and his powerful remarks on Roswell nor David Rudiak and
his findings.

Dr. Marcel has said about all he could say by now.

Then we get treated to reruns of Col. John Haynes and his
remarks on memory time compression and anthropomorphic crash
dummies.

Sure would like to see better interviews than these, but I guess
the operative word here is "live".  Not lively, but live.

-Bill Hamilton







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 2

                        Speaking Of 'Non-Disclosure'

From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net>
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 10:03:03 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 18:06:03 -0400
Subject: Speaking Of 'Non-Disclosure'


Speaking of "non-disclosure", when does the public get to view
_all_ of the 16 recovered implants in possession of National
Inistitute of Discovery Science (NIDS), and what partial
analyses may be available for _all_ of their implants?


Eleanor White







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 2

                    3 UFOs Seen & Videoed Over Argentina

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 12:51:51 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 19:22:06 -0400
Subject: 3 UFOs Seen & Videoed Over Argentina


Source: Diario "El Tribuno" de Salta - Argentina
Date: July 2, 2003

Cachi: The event occurred on June 24th; Three UFOs Seen and
Videotaped

TEACHER TELLS IMPRESSIVE STORY OF THE EXCEPTIONAL EVENT

Three unidentified flying objects (UFOs) of great size and
brilliance were seen on June 24th in the location of Cachi
(Salta), 157 km southeast of the provincial seat and at an
elevation of 2210 meters above sea level.

The strange bodies were videotaped by Antonio Zuleta, an
indefatigable researcher of these mysteries, which are
exceptionally recurrent in this part of the province, after
receiving a warning from a teacher who phoned him to witness the
details of the peculiar celestial airshow.

Curiously enough, June 24th had been declared "World UFO
Sightings Day" by the various organizations devoted to the study
of these affairs. "The time was 19:30 hours when I saw it," said
art instructor Maria del Valle Plaza, who treaches at the
Payogasta school and in the "Victorino de la Plaza" school in
this community. Married and a mother of three, she said that
[the sighting] was "increidble...fantastic. That's why I
immediately got in touch with Mr. Zuleta so that he could
videotape them. The UFOs appeared behind the western hills. The
first one to emerge was enormous in size.

"It gave off lights of different colors and moved slowly,
without making a sound. I was coming back from doing my job, all
alone along Route 33 between Payogasta and Cachi, from which I
was no more than 3 km distant. I pulled my car over, took out my
cell phone and called Zuleta, who came to my observation point
and brought his equipment along," said the educator.

"I never thought I'd witness anything like it, despite having
been born here," she added. "After reciving higher education, I
came back here after many years of absence, and to have the
privilege of seeing these fantastic and mysterious lights of
which I'd heard so many stories since childhood. After the first
UFO appeared, it was followed by another two, which also crossed
the skies. They suddenly remained still. Their light was intense
and shifting, but it didn't hurt the eyes. They were there as if
withing hands' reach. Motionless, as though they were looking at
us from their interior. I was spellbound and amazed. At no time
did I feel any fear. I only wanted to strain my eyes to see into
the core of those objects, which suddenly, propelled by a strong
and poweful force, vanished at breathtaking speed over the
horizon," said Mar=EDa de Valle.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Translation (C) 2003 Scott Corrales IHU
Special thanks to Gloria Coluchi and Mercedes Casas








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 2

                   Re: Largest UFO Database In The World?

From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 09:44:03 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 20:02:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Largest UFO Database In The World?


>From: Charlette LeFevre <clefevre@oz.net>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 00:38:16 -0700 (MST)
>Subject: Re: Largest UFO Database In The World?

>>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
>>To: Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 12:29:39 -0700
>>Subject: Largest UFO Database In The World?

>>I stumbled upon this links page:

>>http://www.ufovideo.net/LINKS.html

>>...which had this curious link:

>>"A UFO RESOURCE CENTER
>>Posted by CJ Montgomery on Saturday, 13 April 2002, at 6:22 pm.
>>UFOs, flying saucers and alien encounters. The extraterrestrial
>>hypothesis is explored, military cover-up exposed. Submit a UFO
>>report online. Search thousands of pages of UFO pictures,
>>articles and research we are the largest UFO database in the
>>world. We are an International UFO research organization .."

>>Clicking on the hyperlink got me here:

>>http://www.uforc.com/

>>.. with lots of things like Crop Circles, UFOs in the Bible,
>>Anti-Gravity, the UFO-Jesus connection(?) .. there is even a
>>link to "Why Couldn't Planet X Return?".

>..and..

>>"Consult with our panel of UFO experts. We are here to answer
>>your questions about UFOs, aliens or whatever you may ask. CLICK
>>HERE..." (UFO Advisory Panel)

>>http://www.uforc.com/ufoap/index.html

>I did, and found the panel of UFO experts, each with a picture.

>My question is this: Does anybody know these experts? Anything
>about them? Maybe I'm in the dark here, but I couldn't
>recognize a single name or face.

I know one guy on this panel - Steve Moreno. He is a fringe
investigator. He has a website at:

http://psi-app.com/

-Bill H






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 2

                      Transcript CNN's 'Do UFOs Exist?'

From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 15:43:00 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 20:49:07 -0400
Subject: Transcript CNN's 'Do UFOs Exist?'


Source: CNN.Com

http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0307/01/lkl.00.html

Aired July 1, 2003 - 21:00 ET

This is a rush transcript. This copy may not be in its final
form and may be updated.

[BEGIN VIDEO CLIP]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Roswell, '47. One picture showed three dead
aliens laying side by side, apparently on some kind of a canvas
or cloth.

[END VIDEO CLIP]

KING: Tonight: What really happened at Roswell, New Mexico, 56
years ago this week? Did the United States military cover up a
UFO crash landing, complete with alien bodies? Do UFOs exist?
Have they been here? Tonight we return to Roswell with those who
were there. Walter Haut -- he was the information officer at
Roswell Army Air Field. He wrote the now famous July 8, 1947,
press release that said a flying disk had been recovered. Glenn
Dennis -- he worked at a Roswell funeral home and says someone
claiming to be the airfield's mortuary officer called to ask him
about small caskets. Nancy Easley [ph] Johnston -- her father
was in charge of security and clean-up at the Roswell site.
Jesse Marcel, Jr. -- his father was a Roswell intelligence
officer. He says he saw debris samples his father brought home
from the crash site.

And later, Don Schmitt, one of the world's leading UFO experts;
Leslie Kean, a journalist investigating the incident known as
"Pennsylvania's Roswell"; Dr. William Doleman, archeologist, who
conducted tests on the Roswell site last year; and Julie Shuster
[ph], Walter Haut's daughter and executive director of the
International UFO Museum at Roswell. All next on LARRY KING
LIVE.

By the way, we'll be seeing clips tonight and we refer you to
the Sci-Fi Channel's documentary, "The Roswell Crash: Startling
New Evidence," that's now available on DVD, and we thank them
for their help in this program tonight.

We start in Roswell, New Mexico with two guys who were there,
Walter Haut, who was the United States Air Force public
information officer at Roswell Army Air Field, and Glenn Dennis,
who was working at the Ballard Funeral Home in Roswell, New
Mexico.

What call did you get, Glenn?

GLENN DENNIS, FUNERAL WORKER CALLED BY MILITARY RE '47 CRASH: I
received a call from the mortuary officer, informing...

KING: Go ahead. I'm hearing someone else talking. Go ahead. Go
ahead, Glenn. Continue. All right, I think that's Walter
talking. I think we're trying to talk to Walter at the same time
we're talking to Glenn. One at a time. Glenn, what call did you
get?

DENNIS: I received a call from the mortuary officer at the base,
asking me how many infant hermetically sealed caskets we had,
three- and-a-half to four feet, in stock. And I told him -- I
said...

KING: What did you make of that?

DENNIS: ... we only had one. It's not military. But I said, I
can call the Amarillo, Texas, coffin company by 3:00 this
afternoon and have all you need by noon tomorrow
[UNINTELLIGIBLE] I said, What's going on out there? And he said,
That's not important. Then he calls me back later and he wants
to know how embalming chemical would alter the tissues, the
stomach contents, and what was our preparation [UNINTELLIGIBLE]
bodies laying out in the elements for days. I said, Sir, we have
to -- the mortuary officer has to tell us what he wants and how
he wants it and what procedure he wants us to follow. And he
became a little bit upset. But anyway, that was the way that it
all started off with me right there.

KING: All right, Walter, what supposedly happened at the air
base, where you were the public information officer?

WALTER HAUT, FIRST TO MAKE 1947 CRASH INCIDENT PUBLIC: We came
up with the fact that we had in our possession a flying saucer,
and Colonel Blanchard [ph] told me to put it out on every medium
I can put it out on, which I did as best I could. And I went
home that evening, and THAT telephone and everything that they
can use was running completely on -- I don't know what kind of
value, but I think it ultimately quit at about 3:00 o'clock in
the morning. It was...

KING: Now, did...

HAUT: ... a long -- go ahead.

KING: Were you ever asked to countermand that release? Were you
ever asked to change what you were first asked to say?

HAUT: No, I was not told to change it. I put out the facts that
we had in our possession, a flying saucer.

KING: Did you, Walter, ever see any of the wreckage?

HAUT: No, sir.

KING: What was said in the days subsequent? Was there a lot of
talk about this? Did people at the airfield say they had seen
any of these bodies or seen any of these creatures? Was it a
wide amount of discussion at Roswell?

HAUT: No. I think you have to take in the idea that the people
on the base were accustomed to keeping their mouths shut, if I
may use that expression. The need just to talk about information
doesn't fit [ph]. People that were working on the base knew what
was going on in the aircraft that they were working on. The
persons like myself, the flymen, we were accustomed to taking
off at certain times and turning around and keep on going.

KING: Well, we're going to -- before we continue questioning,
we're going to show you a clip from the Sci-Fi Channel
documentary, "The Roswell Crash: Startling New Evidence." It's
now available on DVD. And we'll come back with Walter and Glenn.
Watch.

[BEGIN VIDEO CLIP]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Outside of Roswell, southwest of Highway 285,
William Woody [ph] and his father reported seeing a fiery object
descending toward earth.

KEVIN D. RANDLE, PH.D., AUTHOR, "OPERATION ROSWELL": What's
interesting about the Woody aspect of it is that he and his
father the next day, or a day or two later, tried to go out to
see if they could find where the thing fell and ran into the
military cordon. So we've got an interesting little
corroboration there that the military was interested in it, and
they were turned back by the cordons.

[END VIDEO CLIP]

KING: I know that Walter is a little under the weather, so I'll
just have a question or two left for you, Walter, and let you
get out and get some help. Did not the next day General Roger
Ramey [ph] in Fort Worth say that the object was a weather
balloon?

HAUT: Yes. That's what came out. The general just put in a --
it's -- You're wrong when you talk about it. It's just a weather
balloon, and forget it. That's about...

[CROSSTALK]

KING: The key question for you, Walter, is, what do you believe?

HAUT: Well, I believe, personally, that we had in our possession
a flying saucer, and that's the whole sum -- the story, as far
as I was concerned.

KING: So you believe aliens crashed and that -- and that crashed
at Roswell, New Mexico, at the air base. Walter, I hope you feel
better. I thank you for spending some time with us.

Glenn Dennis will remain. Other guests will join us. Be well,
Walter.

We'll return with more on the incredible events of 56 years ago
at Roswell, New Mexico, still one of the most talked-about
events ever. Don't go away.

[COMMERCIAL BREAK]

[BEGIN VIDEO CLIP]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The strange wreckage that Brazel [ph]
discovered spanned an area 300 yards wide by a mile long. That
parcel of land, known to investigators as the debris field, is
where some believe an extraterrestrial craft blew apart and fell
to earth.

[END VIDEO CLIP]

KING: Remaining with us is Glenn Dennis, who worked at the
Ballard Funeral Home in Roswell, New Mexico. Joining us from
Colorado Springs is Nancy Easley Johnston, the daughter of Edwin
Easley [ph], the Army Air Corps officer in charge of security
and clean-up at the Roswell site. And in Helena, Montana, is Dr.
Jesse Marcel, Jr., the son of Major Jesse Marcel, who was an
intelligence officer at Roswell. He says he saw debris samples
that his father brought home.

Glenn, back to you. What was the follow-up? What was the
eventual result? Did they ever order any of these caskets?
Glenn?

DENNIS: Yes?

KING: Did they order -- did the Army Air Force ever order
anything from the funeral home?

DENNIS: No, sir, they did not. They did not order anything.

KING: How do you know the Air Force was calling you?

DENNIS: Well, because I knew the mortuary officer out there very
well. We were close friends.

KING: Oh.

DENNIS: And I knew all the people out there. We worked at the
hospital. We had the only ambulance business, and we were
involved quite a bit out at the base. Also, we had a military
contract. So I knew them all.

KING: Do you agree with Walter? Do you think that a -- that a
foreign object landed there with aliens at Roswell 56 years ago?

HAUT: Well, I agree with him. One reason I agree with him,
because all the ranchers and farmers knew what weather balloons
were. And every time they found one, there's a little instrument
on the end. And if they turned that in, they got 25 bucks. When
this happened, they had no idea what it was. They filled their
pick-ups full of metal -- I mean, full of the debris, brought it
in to the Roswell Army Air Field. And that's where all the
investigation started, right there.

KING: All right, Nancy, your father was Army Air Corps officer
in charge of security and clean-up. What did he -- how old were
you at the time?

NANCY JOHNSTON, DAD HEADED ROSWELL CRASH SITE SECURITY: I was a
year-and-a-half old, so I remember very little!

[LAUGHTER]

KING: What did he tell you later on? JOHNSTON: My father was
reluctant to ever talk about this incident. Once my sister and I
discovered that an incident had occurred that he had been part
of, when we asked him about it, he always told us that he had
promised President Truman that he would not discuss it. And he
stuck with that up until the end -- until almost the very end.

KING: Doesn't by the fact that he wouldn't say anything tell you
that something happened?

JOHNSTON: I'm sure something happened. I am not privy to the
knowledge of what exactly happened, but I'm sure something
happened.

KING: And Jesse Marcel, Jr., your father was an intelligence
officer. You said you saw debris samples that he brought home?
What did you see?

DR. JESSE MARCEL, JR., DAD SHOWED HIM CRASH SITE DEBRIS: Yes,
Larry. You know, my dad was the -- one of the intelligence
officers for the 509th Bomb Group. And as such, it was his job
to investigate unusual events like what happened out there. And
he was called out one night to the ranch where this thing had
landed, picked up some of the debris. He and one of the CIC [ph]
agents picked up some of the debris and loaded it in the back of
our 1942 Buick. And since our house was on the way to the air
base, my dad just swung by the house to show my mother and
myself what they had found out there because he realized this
was something very, very unusual, something unique, as a matter
of fact, because he didn't think we would ever see anything like
this again, which, of course, I have not.

And he drove by the house, put it on kitchen floor, woke my
mother and myself us up so we could look at this. And we got out
in the kitchen and looked -- I looked at the debris that was on
the floor, and there was just a lot of metal parts, metallic,
like, foil- like debris, some I-beam material and some black
plastic material. And the first thing he wanted us to do was to
look for electronic components, such as vacuum tubes, resistors
or condensers because I think he said something like this is
part of a flying saucer. And being a young kid at the time, I
didn't know what a flying saucer was, but I sure realized later.

But I examined some of the debris, some of the foil. I didn't --
picked it up, looked at it. Didn't try to bend or tear it or
stress it in any way. But I found something very unusual. There
were some I-beams that were about a foot, a foot-and-a-half
long. And along the inner surface of the I-beams, you could see
some sort of writing. And there was kind of a purple metallic
hue, as you could see very well if you held this up to the
light. And I thought at first this was like Egyptian
hieroglyphics, but later thought it was not hieroglyphics at all
but more like geometric symbols.

KING: I want to pick up there in a minute, but I want to -- hold
on one second, Jesse. I want to toss to film clip of your father
talking a little about this. Let's watch.

[BEGIN VIDEO CLIP] JESSE MARCEL, SR., 509TH BOMB GROUP: One
thing I was certain of, being familiar with all air activities,
that it was not a weather balloon nor an aircraft nor a missile.
It was something else, of which -- we didn't know what it was.
There were just fragments strewn all over the area. So we
proceeded to pick up the parts. A lot of it had a lot of little
numbers with symbols that -- to me, I call them hieroglyphics
because I could not interpret them. They could not be read. They
were just like symbols of something that meant something. These
little numbers could not be broken, could not be burned. I even
tried to burn that, would not burn. See, that stuff weighs
nothing. It's not any thicker than tinfoil in a pack of
cigarettes.

[END VIDEO CLIP]

KING: Jesse, subsequently, did your father come home and tell
you and your mother to forget everything?

MARCEL: Well, he sure did. As I understood, he flew the material
to Fort Worth to General Roger Ramey, who was 8th Air Force
commander, for his information. And when my dad got back the
next day or the day after, he sat my mother and myself down and
told us under no uncertain terms were we to ever discuss this
issue again. Of course, here I'm talking about, but -- but that
was very definitely one of the commands that he gave us, is not
to talk about it, not with your friends, not with anybody, not
even family members.

KING: So the obvious, Jesse, is what do you believe?

MARCEL: Well, I think it's something very extraordinary. I don't
know what it was. But since that time, I -- and thinking more
about this, I can't help but believe that it was something that
came from another civilization, much like a space probe that
we're sending to other planets right now and -- because the
material was unique, like I say. And I do know it was not a
weather balloon or even a mogul [ph] balloon, like the Air Force
later said, because the material was totally different.

KING: Nancy, what do you -- I know your father said, Say
nothing, and he wouldn't tell you what, and Truman and all that.
What do you believe?

JOHNSTON: I believe that something obviously happened out there
in the countryside close to Roswell that the government has
tried very hard all these years to keep us from understanding
and knowing about. Since I was not a witness, I have no personal
knowledge of what it was, but it had to have been something very
big at that time that the government wanted covered up.

KING: Now, Glenn, you still live -- you live in Roswell. Do you
believe there's...

DENNIS: That's true...

[CROSSTALK]

KING: Do you believe there's still stuff there? DENNIS: Well,
they go out every year, every year after all of the snows and
the winter. These government people go out with Geiger counters
and everything else, and they have this all marked off up there.
And I don't know if they found anything else or not because they
do not consult us anymore at all. But I do know the ranchers and
I know people up there because our mortuary has been involved up
there with most of it -- I mean, with the people there, and very
seldom will we ever talk about it. Once in a while, we'll sit
down and mention something, but not very often.

KING: Jesse, you think the government set your father up to be
kind of a fall guy here?

MARCEL: Well, he was a good soldier. He was just following
orders. And I'm sure that he was told to bring the message home
to the family that -- that not to talk about it because,
apparently, somebody found out that we actually saw the
material. And you know, years later, I asked him about the
possibility of something being still out there, and he said, No,
no, no. They vacuumed that place up, period.

KING: Now, you stay with us, Jesse. Nancy, thanks very much for
being with us. We'll hold Glenn, and we'll be -- thank you,
Nancy. We appreciate your input. We'll come back with more.
We'll meet our full panel later. Don't go away.

[BEGIN VIDEO CLIP]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In 1947, Americans found their skies filled
with all sorts of strange flying objects.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The UFO phenomenon really took off, actually,
in June of 1947 in the state of Washington when a pilot by the
name of Kenneth Arnold saw many objects going in formation at a
very, very high speed by Mount Rainier in Washington.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Arnold said that nine silvery objects he'd
seen looked like saucers skipping over a pond. The next day, his
story was front-page news, and a new term entered the American
lexicon: flying saucer.

[COMMERCIAL BREAK]

[BEGIN VIDEO CLIP - JUNE, 1997]

COL. JOHN HAYNES, U.S. AIR FORCE: Over that period of time,
dummies were dropped all around there, and I think it's logical
to assume that the people there saw Air Force ambulances come
out, they saw gurneys come out, they saw body bags come out
because the dummies were put into the body bags to protect them.
They saw people in pith helmet, they saw people in shorts out
there brushing the bushes, looking for the remnants of the
balloons. And when you put all that stuff together and spin it,
you find that it fits perfectly with many of the occurrences in
Roswell during that era.

[END VIDEO CLIP] KING: Remaining with us is Glenn Dennis, who
worked at the Ballard Funeral Home in Roswell, New Mexico, 56
year ago. Staying with us in Helena, Montana, is Dr. Jesse
Marcel, Jr., the son of Major Jesse Marcel. Joining us now from
Roswell is Donald Schmitt. Donald Schmitt is the former co-
director of J. Alan [ph] Hynek Center for UFO Studies. He's the
author of dozens of articles about UFOs, two best- selling books
about Roswell. In San Francisco is Leslie Kean. Leslie's an
investigative journalist, director of investigation of the
Coalition for Freedom of Information. She's looking into
connections of the 1965 incident in Kecksburg [ph],
Pennsylvania's. It's been called "Pennsylvania's Roswell." She's
not an expert on Roswell. We'll go to her in a little while. Dr.
William Doleman is an archaeologist, principal investigator for
the University of New Mexico's School of Contract Archaeology.
And he conducted a Sci-Fi Channel-sponsored archaeological dig
at the purported UFO crash site in Roswell in September of 2002.

Donald, what is your read on all of this?

DONALD SCHMITT, FORMER CO-DIR. HYNEK CTR. FOR UFO STUDIES: Well,
I think what has impressed me most of all, especially within the
recent years, pertaining to the investigation, as even Nancy
Strickland [ph] was describing, the level of extreme pressure
for these people who were involved to retain their silence, to
keep this event, keep the experience with them for as long as
they did, withholding the information even from their loved
ones, their wives, their children. And as you all know that a
deathbed testimony is admissible in a court of law as physical
evidence, and sadly, that's something that we are concentrating
on right now. And to date, not a single one of these people on
their deathbeds are describing any type of weather balloon,
rocket, aircraft, anything conventional. Invariably, they all
describe the bodies recovered, as well. And I'm not talking
about anthropomorphic wooden crash dummies.

KING: Dr. Doleman, what do you believe?

WILLIAM DOLEMAN, PH.D., LED 2002 ROSWELL ARCHAEOLOGICAL DIG: I
believe that, clearly, something happened or it wouldn't have
made the news. At the same time, I kind of maintain a position
in which I'm a scientific investigator looking for physical
evidence, and I'm not in the business of evaluating the
testimony of various people. Instead, I'm engaged in a project
that, as far as I know, represents the first intensive effort at
what -- at least -- to find some kind of physical evidence of
whatever happened back there in 1947. And so in terms of what I
believe, it's really kind of irrelevant because what I believe
is that scientific investigation is the best way to go about
looking for that physical evidence.

KING: Jesse, why do you believe, if it occurred, the Army wanted
to cover it up? What's the big deal? Why not tell us there is
life somewhere else?

MARCEL: I wish I knew the answer to that question because, for
some reason, they are not ready for the public to know what's
really out there, in spite of the fact that we're sending probes
ourselves to other planets. And obviously, there are
civilizations out there that are far advanced of us and can send
probes here. So I really don't know the answer to the questions,
why they're trying to keep it a secret.

KING: Leslie, what happened at Kecksburg, Pennsylvania, in 1965?

LESLIE KEAN, JOURNALIST INVESTIGATING "PA'S ROSWELL": Well,
something came down in Kecksburg, Pennsylvania, in 1965. An
object was seen in the sky. There was a meteorite that night,
and it went through a number of different states. Citizens of
the community saw -- some of them saw it actually make a few
turns. It came in fairly slowly and landed in the woods near
Kecksburg. A number of witnesses actually saw the object on the
ground. Others saw a very extensive military presence come into
the region. They cordoned off the area. They kept people away
and eventually carted away something on the back of a flatbed
truck.

This is what the people of the area tell us. The Air Force has
told us that nothing came down that night. So we have a
contradiction here, and I'm interested in trying to access
information that will solve that mystery.

KING: What do you believe?

KEAN: I don't know what it was. There's no way to know. We know
that something came down. It could have been a Russian probe. We
don't know what it was, and I'm not in a position to formulate
an opinion. I just want -- I believe that the people have the
right to the information, the people of Pennsylvania, in
particular, who have really suffered a lot by having that
information denied to them. And I just think people have a right
to know. It was, you know, 1965. Why not tell people what
happened there?

KING: We're going to take a break. Jesse Marcel, thanks very
much for joining us.

When we come back, our panel will remain, and we'll also meet
Julie Schuster, the executive director of the International UFO
Museum. We'll also be including your phone calls. We're
discussing Roswell, New Mexico, 56 years ago.

Charles Gibson of "Good Morning America" is tomorrow night's
special guest. Don't go away.

[BEGIN VIDEO CLIP]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And so Ramey told the press that all this
stuff was, was simply a weather balloon. And that was what most
of the press published the next day.

SCHMITT: They never saw the real material. The real material
went on to Washington at that time. So Marcel is ordered to pose
with the substituted radar reflector balloon. So the first press
release, there was a flying saucer, and six hours later, We're
sorry, ladies and gentlemen. It's just a weather balloon. The
question is, which press release is the true story?

[END VIDEO CLIP]

[COMMERCIAL BREAK]

[BEGIN VIDEO CLIP]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE [voice-over]: Major Marcel [ph] and Captain
Sheridan Cavet [ph] traveled to the Foster Ranch and spent a day
gathering the strange wreckage. Marcel was so intrigued by the
debris that on his way back to the base, he stopped by his home
to show his family what he'd found.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My dad came into my room, very excited and he
wanted to show us some material that he'd found. I think he --
the inclination or the intimation there was this was part of a
flying saucer.

[END VIDEO CLIP]

KING: Discussing the events in Roswell, New Mexico.

Joining us now is Julie Shuster. She is the executive director
of the International UFO Museum and Research Center in Roswell.
The earlier guest, Walter Haut, is her father.

What is the -- what did we see at the museum, Julie?

JULIE SHUSTER, EXEC. DIR., INTL. UFO MUSEUM AT ROSWELL: We have
a lot of things to offer and one of the things that we try to do
is show what Roswell looked like in 1947, give our visitors a
glimpse of what Roswell looked like and one of the things we do
is our radio display with the teletype and the audio control
that show what the radio station may have looked like where Mac
Brazel was interviewed.

KING: Do you show anything resembling what might have been
captured there?

SHUSTER: We have a lot of artists' renditions of what the
saucers may have looked like. We do have a few other displays
that give some interpretations.

KING: We know what your father thinks. What do you think?

SHUSTER: Now if I said I agreed with my father, because he's
sitting here -- no -- I believe that something did happen. These
were people with incredible integrity and very conservative and
if they said something happened, something happened.

KING: Donald Schmitt, why would the government -- this has been
asked over the years, every time we hear about UFOs, what are
they hiding? For what purpose?

SCHMITT: Well, in just looking at the history, specifically of
New Mexico in 1947, I'm amazed when I especially lecture on the
college circuit when you ask where was first atomic bomb
detonated and invariably most people say Japan, whereas anybody
here in New Mexico, historically knows it happened right here,
just about 150 miles west of Roswell.

Roswell was the hot bed of all military research and testing at
that time, the captured V-2 rockets and if we go by the Air
Force's Project Blue Book records, which would suggest that
there were more UFO sightings here in 1947 than anywhere else,
whereas there were also more Soviet spies here...

KING: But the question is, why would they keep the information
from the public, assuming it's all true?

SCHMITT: Well, that would be part of it, the fact that it
immediately became a concern of the high ranking officials at
the Pentagon that if this was of anything of a foreign design
and it was some new intelligence, something that could
potentially be reverse engineered, replicated, that it would
become an immediate race with the Soviets, something that we
possessed and hopefully they did not.

KING: And that wouldn't be the thinking now. So we assume that
this information is passed along, so why doesn't -- Rumsfeld
release it?

SCHMITT: Well, as you have had former President Carter and
former President Clinton, the question could be posed to either
one of them, whereas they themselves tried to gain access to
information, actually tried to release information specifically
on UFOs and specifically on Roswell and yet they failed.

It is our position -- my partner Thomas Carey and I -- that it
is still a cover up of ignorance, that they have physical proof,
but they still don't have the answers as to from where, from why
and from whom.

KING: Glenn, why do you think they are not releasing it?

DENNIS: Well, from what I've been told, and being interviewed,
the problem is that whoever has this energy could control the
whole world and if we don't have the elements on our planet or
anything else to reproduce these, then it could be a problem.
I've heard this from three or four different sources and maybe
that's true. I don't know. If you remember, the Orson Welles
deal.

KING: "War of the Worlds."

DENNIS: Yes.

KING: Yes.

DENNIS: And they didn't know if that would happen in New Mexico
or around the world, or anything else if we were being invaded
by aliens.

KING: Before we go to calls, Dr. Doleman, what do we know, know.
What can you definitively scientifically say?

DOLEMAN: Well, we were funded by the Sci-Fi Channel back in
September of last year to conduct an archaeological test
excavation at the putative Roswell impact site, which is one of
two or three sites. We were led to that location by Don Schmitt
and what we did was implement some fairly standard archaeology
test excavations methods in a staged research project to look
for evidence of the sort that had been originally reported by
the eyewitnesses and that primarily includes debris, which was
ostensibly all cleaned up, and a gouge or furrow mark in the
ground that was made by something that hit the ground and then
skipped back up in the air and came back down in another
locations. So the methods that we used to look for that involved
geophysical prospection using electromagnetic conductivity and
metal detection.

KING: I -- I don't want to get into too much technical stuff.

DOLEMAN: Yes, I'm trying to keep it..

KING: What we know?

DOLEMAN: What we know is that during the process of that
investigation, we recovered some things that will be analyzed.
We have soil samples in which we'll look for evidence of unusual
chemical composition using fairly standard geological
techniques, under the assumption vacuumed or not, if there was
debris, a lot of it was small, just like a broken glass and not
all of it was recovered and some of it must be in the dirt out
there if there is debris.

We also know that we found in one of the back hoe trenches that
we excavated an unusual feature that had essentially the shape
that you'd expect if there was a gouge and trench and the
backhoe trench where that thing was found was right where there
was supposed to be a gouge.

And so, essentially we're still in the analytical stage and the
results of the analysis are going to be, I think I made
available in a show presented by Sci-Fi coming up in October.

KING: Let me get a call here. Reykkavik, Iceland, hello.

CALLER: Hello.

KING: Hi.

CALLER: How have you, Larry?

KING: Fine. What's the question?

CALLER: Don't you think stories about the aliens being small
people with large heads and large eyes and small mouths just
came out of the experiments the military were doing after the
war? They used children's bodies to investigate the effects of
radiation on the human body.

KING: Any truth to that, Donald?

SCHMITT: The Air Force, in its continuing effort to provide
alternative explanations and theories became -- reached a
ridiculous level in 199, on the 50th anniversary, when it was
suggested that these were anthropomorphic wooden crash dummies,
albeit five years removed from 1947, with the suggestion that
the witnesses were merely time compressing the decades within
their memories. And until they are able to provide a single
witness contrary to our own, as evidenced by Jessie Marcel's
father and others that we have interviewed and have signed sworn
affidavits -- until they can provide a witness at the debris
field, at the impact site, at the base, on any of the outgoing
and incoming flights involved, suggesting this was an
alternative explanation, something prosaic, we will continue to
go where the witnesses and the testimony lead us.

KING: Let me get a break. As we go to break, we remind you that
the clips you are seeing are from Sci-Fi Channel's documentary
"The Roswell Crash: Startling New Evidence." It's now available
on DVD, and there you see the cover of the DVD.

And we'll be back with more calls. Don't go away.

[BEGIN VIDEO CLIP]

COL. JOHN HAYNES U.S. AIR FORCE: They are talking about 1947.
You're talking about dummies used in the '50s, almost a decade
later.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I'm afraid that's a problem that we
have with time compression. I don't know what they saw in '47
but I'm quite sure it probably was project Mogul. I think if you
find that people talk about things over a period of time, they
begin to lose exactly when the date was and there were lots of
dummies dropped. There were 2,500 balloons launched during this
30-year period in New Mexico alone.

[COMMERCIAL BREAK]

[BEGIN VIDEO CLIP]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's the matter, James?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: More of them are coming.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you mean?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Different ones. Like him. Many different
races. Different species. They're coming!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you okay?

[END VIDEO CLIP]

KING: Julie Shuster, do a lot of people come to that museum?

SHUSTER: Yes, we have people from around the world coming. And
last year we had over 205,000 visitors through our doors.

KING: What's that to your right?

SHUSTER: This is Harold our anthropomorphic, he is one of the
explanations that was give that we mistook or the people of
Roswell in 1947 mistook as an alien. The only problem was he
wasn't used until 1952 to the late 1960s. So, we don't think he
looks like an alien.

KING: Do most the people come, are they come as believers?

SHUSTER: I think a lot of them do. I can't say most. We have
people that come with believe, don't believe, or never going to
believe. But a lot of people come and want to have questions
answered, if possible.

KING: Leslie Kean, what was found in Kecksburg?

KEAN: Well, Larry, that what is we want to find out, because we
don't know.

KING: You mean, they won't show you?

KEAN: That is why we're doing the freedom of information act
initiative. We have a law firm working with us and we got a
history -- archives research firm. We have got a private
investigator. We got a team of people trying to get the
documentation that will tell us what came down. And that's why
we are working on it. We don't know.

KING: Hamilton, New Jersey, hello.

CALLER: Hi. I have a question for Glenn.

KING: Go ahead.

CALLER: Did you see what the military put in the coffin that was
[UNINTELLIGIBLE]?

KING: Did you ever see anything in a coffin, Glenn?

DENNIS: No, I did not. I did not see it. They were all shipped
out in what we call body bags and put in a hermetically sealed
container and was flown directly to Wright-Patterson.

KING: Tampa, Florida. Hello.

CALLER: Yes, my question for your panel is, what effect, if any
did the Cold War between United States and Russia have on
disclosure of information on possible UFO crashes such as the
one in Roswell in 1947.

KING: Don Schmitt has already referred to that. You think a
great effect, right Don?

SCHMITT: Yes, of course it did. Almost a predecessor to our race
to the moon, for example. And our development of atomic
propulsion. The soviets won't detonate their first atomic bomb
until August 1949 but our concern certainly was as to
development of such technology and in the event of such a crash
here at Roswell, again, certainly the hope that we were the only
ones in possession. And we also believe that it may have also
become a bit of a bargaining tool. The suggestion it was merely
a weather balloon was something that even Premier Joseph Stalin
didn't believe back in '47. And there are documents that suggest
that he was very concerned that we had even upped our technology
regarding the atomic bomb.

KING: Calgary, Ontario, Canada.

CALLER: Larry, a great fan.

KING: Thank you.

CALLER: It seems that the most frequent reports of UFO sightings
are in the United States. You don't hear much about sightings in
other countries throughout the world.

KING: Doctor Doleman, are there others?

DOLEMAN: Unfortunately, I'm totally not an expert in the UFO
phenomenon. And I am an expert in archaeology, and finding
physical evidence. But I'm afraid I can't answer that question.

KING: Donald are there others?

SCHMITT: Yes. If I might, in fact, at the center for UFO
studies, for example, as they cataloged reports from all over
the world, we have reports from almost as many countries that
presently are in the United Nations.

KING: Why would you guess, Don, they land in Roswell, they don't
land in Washington?

They land in Ennui, they don't land in Paris.

Why not a large area where we could all see them?

SCHMITT: That is always been the nature of the beast, so to
speak. In other words, the phenomenon it is has been very late
night, very rural, very isolated, yet there have been profound
cases over military strategic air command facilities, in fact,
even the buzzing of the White House in subsequent weeks in July
of 1952 were formations of objects were tracked and aircraft
scrambling from Andrews Air Force Base on these unknowns. So
again, Roswell...

KING: Not just remote areas?

SCHMITT: New Mexico I think it had to do with the fact it was
hot bed of military activity at the time. And indeed in dealing
with something off the planet they were concerned with our
military potential back in 1947.

KING: We'll be back with more moments and more phone calls on
this ever-fascinating phenomenon.

Don't go away.

[BEGIN VIDEO CLIP]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On the front of the draw it said "Operation
Blue Book."

This might interest you in big [UNINTELLIGIBLE] photo. Roswell,
'47.

One picture showed three dead aliens laying side by side,
apparently on some kind of a canvas or cloth, and showed two
others standing side by side, I assume they were the ones that
lived.

BRYANT GUMBEL, HOST: According to Cox the file contained photos
of the crashed spacecraft.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Saucer, as they call it. Was not round as
it's been depicted in most cases. It was more egg-shaped, front
to rear.

[END VIDEO CLIP]

KING: Julie, what does officialdom think of your museum?

SHUSTER: We've had no response, that I know, of from any
official sources. We've opened up. We don't try to tell people
one way or the other. So, nobody has questioned us, that we know
of.

KING: What's that over there to your left?

SHUSTER: This is a prop. This alien was created as a prop for
the movie Roswell in 1994 and he is one of our most-
photographed, most enjoyed exhibits. People really like to check
him out, and see what the aliens might have looked like.

KING: That's been the general description of those who reported
to have seen them, that's the general description as to how they
looked, right?

SHUSTER: Yes, sir, it was a composite of witness accounts.

KING: Thanks Julie.

Oakland, California, hello.

CALLER: Hi Larry. A quick comment. First, there has been UFO
sightings of a major city such as Mexico City...

KING: They never land anywhere, though. They've been sighted
everywhere, but they only land in Wallawallawalla.

CALLER: and possible sightings in Phoenix. My question is why
are UFO investigations generally not taken seriously? Why are
they laughed off as science fiction?

KING: Leslie.

KEAN: Well, she's right. There's a strong attitude of ridicule
in the media and everywhere else. I think it's become a cultural
phenomenon over many, many years. I think a lot of it is because
people are not informed about the issue. If journalists and
scientists and others were to study the data, to study what we
do know, and to listen to some of the experts that have talked
about the issue, I think they would change their minds. But it
has become sort of inculcated into our culture. So I encourage
people to do some research into this phenomena and, I think,
they will discover it worthy of investigation and worthy of news
coverage and there are scientists in this country and around the
world deserve resource to solve this problem for us.

And we can have these wonderful witnesses coming forward. We can
have documentaries made for years and years and years. We aren't
going to solve the problem until we get our scientists on board.
Get them the resources they need to find out for us, what these
things are and to solve this problem once and for all. And I
think that is what is needed. The Ridicule factor has to go.

KING: Hamburg, Germany. Hello.

CALLER: Hello, Larry. You are just great. My question is, how
could aliens visit the Earth if nothing can travel faster than
the speed of light?

KING: And not what?

CALLER: Speed of light?

KING: How co-- Donald, do you get that question?

SCHMITT: How could they travel the great distances and Dr.
Heinich [ph] used the analogy of a deck of playing cards and the
thickness of a card equally the distance from the Earth to the
Moon being a single card. And the distance from Alpha Centauri
4.3 light years being 19 miles of playing cards. So it truly is,
as far as astronomers and astrophysicists, for example -- that
it is beyond acceptance within their field.

But we still have to accept the possibilities of parallel
universes, interdimensional travel, worm holes, black holes and
that type of thing and even teleportation and possibly time
travel.

KING: Glenn, do you think we'll ever going to know the whole
story?

DENNIS: Well, not at the rate it's going now. There's some
sightings just recently in Australia and New Zealand and also I
have a call the other day that people that had been in Egypt
visiting the pyramids and they shut them down for three or four
days and no tourists going out there on a count of the
sightings.

KING: Go ahead, Glenn.

DENNIS: I don't know. I think more of the public understands
this, the more they know about it, the better the whole world
will be.

KING: Dr. Doleman, do you think we're going to get answers?

DOLEMAN: Well, I -- hard to say if we will or not, but I think
that Leslie made a very important point, and that's one of the
things that interested me in this project I did out there, that
is, that all of the Roswell story, up until this point is
largely based on eyewitness testimony and anecdotal evidence a
few suggestive documents and things like that. And there is
actually until this point, no one has bothered to go out and
look for actual physical evidence. My part in this whole thing
was to apply archaeological techniques to what is essentially an
archaeological problem. Go to a site and see if there is
evidence.

KING: And we want to thank the Sci-fi channel. That documentary
is "The Roswell Crash: Startling New Evidence" is now available
on DVD.

We thank Glen Dennis for spending all this time with us. He
worked at the Ballard Funeral Home in Roswell when all this
happened.

Donald Schmitt, is the former co-director of the Jay Allen
Heinich Center for UFO Studies.

Leslie Kean, is the investigative journalist looking into the
incident in Kecksburg [ph], Pennsylvania, that's been called
Pennsylvania's Roswell.

Dr. William Doleman, is the archaeologist and principal
investigator for University of New Mexico Office of Contract
Archaeology.

And Julie Shuster, is executive director of the UFO Museum.

I'll come back and tell you tomorrow right after this.

[COMMERCIAL BREAK]

KING: Before we tell you about tomorrow, one of the funniest
human beings on the planet and old friend, Buddy Hackett passed
away yesterday. What a guy Buddy was. He appeared on this show
once or twice, back in the early days, many times on my old
radio show. God, he was funny. And he was creative and he was
out of his mind. All he did was make you laugh. Dear buddy. We
miss him already. Had breakfast with him a month ago. Now he's
gone. Sleep well, Buddy.

Tomorrow night Charles Gibson of ABC's "Good Morning America"
will be our special guest.

Dolly Parton is going to be aboard on Thursday night.

To order a video of this transcript, please call 800-CNN-NEWS or
use our secure online order form located at www.fdch.com









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 2

                               BBC's UFO Quiz

From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 15:45:29 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 21:06:11 -0400
Subject: BBC's UFO Quiz


Source: BBC News

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3036596.stm










   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 2

                   Crop Circles Work Of Aliens Or Hoaxers?

From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 15:51:08 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 21:17:48 -0400
Subject: Crop Circles Work Of Aliens Or Hoaxers?


Source: The Express & Echo - Exeter, UK

http://www.thisisexeter.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=101955&command=displayConte
nt&sourceNode=99871&contentPK=6213051

12:00 - 02 July 2003

Are These Crop Circles The Work Of Aliens Or Hoa

By John Fletcher

Have aliens made their mark in a Devon field, or could these
first crop circles in the area be the work of pranksters?

Whoever or whatever is responsible for the circles, known to
experts in the field as agriglyphs - from the Greek for field
and carving - they have caused a stir at Colaton Raleigh, near
Exmouth.

Locals have been scratching their heads in disbelief since they
woke up to three geometrically perfect and artistic circles
several days ago.

The elaborate patterns, bordered by two tram lines, have come to
light in fields alongside Home Farm, owned by Bicton College.

News of the sightings swept through the East Devon community and
people have been driving out to the sleepy village on the Newton
Poppleford to Budleigh Salterton road to view the latest
attraction.

But just how the shapes got there remains a mystery. They are
believed to be the first in East Devon. The phenomenon is more
common in counties such as Wiltshire, Hampshire and Dorset,
following the rise of the phenomenon in the 1980s.

Die-hard enthusiasts say the circles are a type of paranormal
activity or communication from aliens. Sceptics blame hoaxers.

Robin Boaden, dairy manager at the 470-acre Home Farm, admitted
it was puzzling.

He said: "The crop circles suddenly appeared last week and cover
about an acre of a field where winter crops are growing.

"No one at the farm has any idea how the circles got there. They
are about 100 yards from the main road. They cannot be seen from
the road but are clearly visible from the Bicton College
building."

Ian Johnson, of the Devon National Farmers' Union Exeter-based
regional office, was also mystified.

He said: "We have not had reports of crop circles in this part
of Devon before. I believe them to be elaborate hoaxes.''

Brian Finnegan, who runs Colaton Raleigh Service Station, said:
"It would surprise me if a student from the college was
responsible for this, because they are so well behaved.''

Regulars at the Otter pub in the village admitted it was a
mystery.

One local said: "We are going round in circles ourselves trying
to figure out where the crop circles came from.

"Everyone is at a loss as to what has happened here, but I doubt
whether aliens have been at work. Colaton Raleigh is so quiet.

"We think they are the first crop circles of their kind in East
Devon.''

Local artist Alan Cotton admitted he had not heard about the
circles until he was contacted by the Echo.

"It's bound to be a talking point now,'' he said.

Farmer's wife Margaret Carter, who runs a village farm with her
husband Oliver, said: "We have not heard of anything like this
locally before, but it sounds very strange.''

Geoffrey Sworder, of the Devon branch of the Council for the
Protection of Rural England, was unimpressed.

He said: "I know a lot of these crop circles are spoofs, and if
they are it is sad because actions like this spoil crops."

Truth Is Out There

Crop circles remain an unexplained phenomenon, but it is
believed most are man-made rather than the work of space
travellers.

The unexplained patterns, scientifically called agriglyphs, have
magically appeared all over Britain including fields in
Wiltshire, Hampshire, Gloucester, Dorset and Yorkshire.

A mini industry has evolved through enthusiasts visiting popular
crop circle venues.

Websites attract millions of hits from keen observers of the
phenomenon.

Hollywood has cashed in with the film Signs starring Mel Gibson
as a circle hunter.

The earliest known formation in England was in 1647. They were
often spotted in the early 1980s, with reports saying strange
lights had been seen above the sites, prompting theories that
they were created by alien visitors.

A big year was 1990, when a record number of pictograms - long
chains of circles, rectangles and other shapes - were reported.

Patterns mostly appear at night and the largest appeared at Milk
Hill, near Alton Barnes, Wiltshire, in August 2001. The six-
armed motif contained 409 circles.

--


Source: Express&Echo
http://www.thisisexeter.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=101955&comm
and=displayContent&sourceNode=99871&contentPK=6213051

BY JOHN FLETCHER

12:00 - 02 July 2003

Have aliens made their mark in a Devon field, or could these
first crop circles in the area be the work of pranksters?

Whoever or whatever is responsible for the circles, known to
experts in the field as agriglyphs - from the Greek for field
and carving - they have caused a stir at Colaton Raleigh, near
Exmouth.

Locals have been scratching their heads in disbelief since they
woke up to three geometrically perfect and artistic circles
several days ago.

The elaborate patterns, bordered by two tram lines, have come to
light in fields alongside Home Farm, owned by Bicton College.

News of the sightings swept through the East Devon community and
people have been driving out to the sleepy village on the Newton
Poppleford to Budleigh Salterton road to view the latest
attraction.

But just how the shapes got there remains a mystery. They are
believed to be the first in East Devon. The phenomenon is more
common in counties such as Wiltshire, Hampshire and Dorset,
following the rise of the phenomenon in the 1980s.

Die-hard enthusiasts say the circles are a type of paranormal
activity or communication from aliens. Sceptics blame hoaxers.

Robin Boaden, dairy manager at the 470-acre Home Farm, admitted
it was puzzling.

He said: "The crop circles suddenly appeared last week and cover
about an acre of a field where winter crops are growing.

"No one at the farm has any idea how the circles got there. They
are about 100 yards from the main road. They cannot be seen from
the road but are clearly visible from the Bicton College
building."

Ian Johnson, of the Devon National Farmers' Union Exeter-based
regional office, was also mystified.

He said: "We have not had reports of crop circles in this part
of Devon before. I believe them to be elaborate hoaxes.''

Brian Finnegan, who runs Colaton Raleigh Service Station, said:
"It would surprise me if a student from the college was
responsible for this, because they are so well behaved.''

Regulars at the Otter pub in the village admitted it was a
mystery.

One local said: "We are going round in circles ourselves trying
to figure out where the crop circles came from.

"Everyone is at a loss as to what has happened here, but I doubt
whether aliens have been at work. Colaton Raleigh is so quiet.

"We think they are the first crop circles of their kind in East
Devon.''

Local artist Alan Cotton admitted he had not heard about the
circles until he was contacted by the Echo.

"It's bound to be a talking point now,'' he said.

Farmer's wife Margaret Carter, who runs a village farm with her
husband Oliver, said: "We have not heard of anything like this
locally before, but it sounds very strange.''

Geoffrey Sworder, of the Devon branch of the Council for the
Protection of Rural England, was unimpressed.

He said: "I know a lot of these crop circles are spoofs, and if
they are it is sad because actions like this spoil crops."

Truth Is Out There

Crop circles remain an unexplained phenomenon, but it is
believed most are man-made rather than the work of space
travellers.

The unexplained patterns, scientifically called agriglyphs, have
magically appeared all over Britain including fields in
Wiltshire, Hampshire, Gloucester, Dorset and Yorkshire.

A mini industry has evolved through enthusiasts visiting popular
crop circle venues.

Websites attract millions of hits from keen observers of the
phenomenon.

Hollywood has cashed in with the film Signs starring Mel Gibson
as a circle hunter.

The earliest known formation in England was in 1647. They were
often spotted in the early 1980s, with reports saying strange
lights had been seen above the sites, prompting theories that
they were created by alien visitors.

A big year was 1990, when a record number of pictograms - long
chains of circles, rectangles and other shapes - were reported.

Patterns mostly appear at night and the largest appeared at Milk
Hill, near Alton Barnes, Wiltshire, in August 2001. The six-
armed motif contained 409 circles.










   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 2

                   Roswell Set For Its Annual UFO Festival

From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 15:54:05 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 21:52:50 -0400
Subject: Roswell Set For Its Annual UFO Festival


Source: Odessa American

http://www.oaoa.com/news/nw070203b.htm

Wednesday, 02 July 2003

Roswell Set For Its Annual Ufo Festival

By Brian Rogers

ROSWELL, N.M. This city of 49,000 people has become accustomed
to visitors over the years, but this weekends annual UFO
festival promises to bring more than 10,000 strangers together
to consider the possibility of a 1947 extraterrestrial crash.

Highlights this year include a Roswell film festival and an
outdoor showing of the movie Independence Day on July 4, said
Shawn Hughes, chief executive officer of the Roswell Chamber of
Commerce.

A lot of Independence Day takes place in Roswell on the Fourth
of July. So you can watch Roswell on the Fourth of July in
Roswell on the Fourth of July, Hughes said. Its a fun festival
for the whole family.

Hughes said that last years festival had a $1.13 million
economic impact on Roswell.

Of course, the UFO phenomenon is a growing industry here, Hughes
said. He said interest in the crash brought $5.2 million to
Roswell last year, without the festival.

During the festival, visitors will swarm the International
Unidentified Flying Object Museum and Research Center, said
Director Julie Shuster.

The festival was designed to attract attention to the event,
said Shuster.

I firmly believe something happened here at Roswell in 1947, and
it was not of this world, Shuster said. And thats not a job
requirement.

This years festival boasts appearances by some of the worlds
foremost authorities on alien encounters including Derrel Sims,
UFO investigator, and Donald Schmitt and Thomas Carey, two of
Roswells UFO researchers. In addition to the exhibits and book
signings beginning Thursday, there will be a concert Saturday
night starring Merle Haggard, Pam Tillis and Marty Stewart.

The festival, which drew 9,600 people last year, is on track to
beat that number this year, Shuster said.

Were already seeing 700 to 800 people a day at the museum,
Shuster said.









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 2

                        Daily Mail Bentwaters Article

From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 20:41:23 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 22:45:17 -0400
Subject: Daily Mail Bentwaters Article


List,

Today's Daily Mail carried a full-page article on the Bentwaters
UFO case, on page 10. It examined the claims of former United
States Air Force airman Kevin Conde, who alleges that he
unwittingly caused the Rendlesham Forest incident by playing a
practical joke on a colleague, spooking him with the lights from
a US police vehicle. These claims are not new, and have
circulated on the internet for a couple of years. They received
some more recent coverage in a regional BBC programme screened
on Monday (and possibly in some of the East Anglian newspapers),
but this is the first time the claims have received publicity in
a national newspaper.

There are a number of reasons why Conde's claims should be
treated with caution. Firstly, it should be recalled that the
UFO sightings took place over a series of nights. The sighting
by Lieutenant Colonel Charles Halt and the men he took into the
forest was on a different night to the original sighting by
Penniston, Burroughs and Cabansag.

Conde's story does not fit the observational data from the
various United States Air Force military personnel who saw UFOs.
See for example the original United States Air Force witness
statements published in Georgina Bruni's book on the case, You
Can't Tell The People.

It is claimed that this was a practical joke, but something
about this does not ring true. In my experience, if one plays a
practical joke at work, one immediately tells ones friends and
colleagues, and word quickly spreads. And yet, no other
contemporary of Conde has, to my knowledge, said they remember
such a prank.

Conde states that the depressions found at the spot where a UFO
allegedly landed were caused by a large helicopter. But this is
inconsistent with the indentations found, and landing a helicopter
in the small clearing concerned would have been a physical
impossibility.

The hoax claims also take no account of the radar and radiation
data. Details of this can be found at the following link:

http://www.nickpope.net/rendlesham_files_reviewed.htm

The relevant Ministry of Defence documents, including the
Defence Intelligence Staff assessment of the radiation data, are
at:

http://www.nickpope.net/selected_documents.htm

In summary, this is an amusing story, but inconsistent with the
data, and unsupported by any documentation or witness testimony.


Best wishes,

Nick Pope






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 3

                 Re: Electrolyte Imbalances In The Abductee

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 13:28:53 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 07:39:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Electrolyte Imbalances In The Abductee


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 13:14:42 -0300
>Subject: Re: Electrolyte Imbalances In The Abductee

<snip>

>One day... probably in a parallel dimension, a proper medical
>study of abductees will be undertaken by an _independent_
>research organization.

>For those who don't know, "Sabre Enterprises" is Derrel Simms'
>group/project. For those who are unfamiliar with the 'alien
>hunter' and nemesis of Mondoz*, Derrel Simms he is one
>individual that has done more to discredit and to set _back_ the
>study of UFO abductions (IMHO) than just about anybody else.
>_Any_ information that originates from him, or his 'Sabre
>Enterprises' is to be taken with a huge block of salt.

Absolutely. "Sabre Enterprises" is a sad joke perpetrated by a
rabid 'true believer'. Simms is welcome to join the scientific
club, but first he has to part with his data and let other take
a look and see if it's repeatable. The UFO research community
should be used to "science by proclamation" by now. It's one of
many evidential dead-ends.

=====
Mac Tonnies (macbot@yahoo.com)

Explore MTVI @ http://www.mactonnies.com

Posthuman Blues: http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com (daily blog)







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 3

                  Re: Mars Photos From Dr. Tom Van Flandern

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 14:53:18 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 07:41:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Mars Photos From Dr. Tom Van Flandern


>From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net>
>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 10:00:18 -0400
>Subject: Mars Photos From Dr. Tom Van Flandern

<snip>

>I saved a few from the Coast to Coast web site which appear most
>interesting and they can be directly called up from the links
>below much more quickly than either Coast to Coast's site or Dr.
>Van Flandern's. All are around 50-65K:

>http://www.raven1.net/crownedface.jpe (new "face")
>http://www.raven1.net/child.jpe  (l-h photo is
>untouched)
>http://www.raven1.net/glasstube.jpe (the tubes are
>ribbed)
>http://www.raven1.net/tubenetwork.jpe
>http://www.raven1.net/hexcrater.jpe
>http://www.raven1.net/plaintrack.jpe

IMHO, these images are an embarrassment to the planetary SETI
community (such as it is). I've written extensively on the
"Crowned Face" and "tubes" (which aren't really tubes) on my
Mars anomaly website:

http://www.mactonnies.com/cydonia.html

Mac







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 3

                        More Red Orbs In Wise County

From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 17:13:03 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 07:42:34 -0400
Subject: More Red Orbs In Wise County


I stumbled on a website called UFO Theatre

http://ufotheatre.com/

In their forums they have a section for video and photographic
evidence in which the hottest topic is a video of some orbs in a
farmers field in Wise County, Texas. I took the time to DL the
video (35MB) which was made available in three formats (MPG, AVI
and RealMedia). I had trouble with the MPG but the AVI played
fine. I haven't viewed the RM version but it is only 719KB for
those that don't want to take the time for the other formats.

MPG - http://rain.prohosting.com/newufozz/redorb1.mpg
AVI - http://cp.cvt.dk/cp/ufotheatre/redorb1.avi (DIVX)
RealMedia - http://rain.prohosting.com/newufozz/redorb1.rm

I must say that this video is quite remarkable. It clearly shows
an orb type object (perhaps two). The video was taped, according
to UFO Theatre, by Brian Bessent.

The weather was dry with no storms in the area so it's unlikely
(though not impossible) that it was ball lightening. There are
no marshes in the area so it is probably not Marsh Gas. And,
according to Bessent, it isn't a laser pointer due to the fact
that portions of the video not yet released show the orb clearly
against the sky.

You can hear the conversation between the vidoegrapher and an
unidentified female. The conversation sounds to me like the
female was actually doing the taping because there are times
when the male didn't know where the object was, even though it
was still on screen.

I invite you to look for your self

Terry Groff
http://terrygroff.com/ufotools/

ICQ:18292278
AIM: cupojava11
MSN: cupojava1








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 3

                 Re: UFO Conference in Halifax, Nova Scotia

From: Fern Belzil <fbelzil@telusplanet.net>
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 20:26:11 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 07:50:35 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Conference in Halifax, Nova Scotia


>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 01:10:08 -0300
>Subject: UFO Conference in Halifax, Nova Scotia

>UFO Conference October 11 & 12
>Halifax, Nova Scotia
>Canada

>Speakers:

>Stanton Friedman
>Budd Hopkins
>Antonio Huneeus
>Chris Styles
>Don Ledger

>Program and registering details at:

>http://www.ufohalifax.com

>Contact:

>UFO Halifax
>Phone: 902 463-4723
>Fax: 902-492-0226

>Email us at: info@ufohalifax.com

>**Note the special bus tour to Shag Harbour, NS.


Don:

I see by the list of speakers for the Halifax conference, no one
speaking about mutilations, I guess that is not important enough
for Eastern Canada, Yet a lot of information I have for instance
show a strong indications of Alien involvement.

I have had 7 cases already this summer.

Discovery Channel is doing a documantary about my past success
in the purebred cattle business, and my mutilation findings. I
have been to close to 100 mutes the last 6 years.

Good luck in Halifax,

Fernand Belzil








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 3

                 Re: Electrolyte Imbalances In The Abductee

From: Eric Jacobson <ejacobson74@comcast.net>
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 23:30:42 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 07:55:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Electrolyte Imbalances In The Abductee


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 13:14:42 -0300
>Subject: Re: Electrolyte Imbalances In The Abductee - Velez

>>From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:46:42 -0300
>>Subject: Electrolyte Imbalances In The Abductee


>>Source: Darkufo

>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/darkufo/message/3569

>>Patricia Gray, R.N. writes that the collective stats from Saber
>>Enterprises results in a high number of reports from abductees
>>concerning low potassium (K) levels (some of which seem to be at
>>a "critical level" and need emergent treatment. There is, also,
>>the interesting report of "salt cravings" among abductees

>In spite of any pretensions of being a "report of the findings
>of a scientific study," plainly, this is not. This one turns out
>to be just another one of those speculative "unnamed sources
>say" kind of a report. The nurse spouts a lot of questionable
>statistics without providing one iota of information about how
>it was obtained and by whom.

>We who participate in the day to day doings in ufology need to
>set the bar a lot higher than this. We should all demand clear,
>concise reports that have been published and peer reviewed
>_before_ being offered for consumption by the general public.
>John Velez

Dear John and List,

The only hope of establishing a credible network of UFO
researchers is to absolutely and completely ignore stuff like
this. Just refuse to reply to it or reference it in any way at
all. Otherwise we are inevitably drawn into discussions ad
nauseum with people who have absolutely no interest in critical
investigation or science.

Anyway that's the conclusion I've come to for myself. People are
either interested in careful critical research or they're not.
You can't change 'em. And life is too short to waste time going
around the may pole with them.  Better to totally ignore them.
Let them be in their realm and we in ours.

The second thing that serious investigators could do would be to
stop using the term "UFO" entirely. Let the fable spinners have
it. Replace it with some term that is absolutely uninteresting
to the mass media. How about "anomalous aerial phenomena?"


Best wishes,

Eric








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 3

                      Re: Daily Mail Bentwaters Article

From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk>
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 04:49:57 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 07:57:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Daily Mail Bentwaters Article


>From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 20:41:23 +0100
>Subject: Daily Mail Bentwaters Article

<snip>

Hello Nick, List.

>The hoax claims also take no account of the radar and radiation
>data. Details of this can be found at the following link:

>http://www.nickpope.net/rendlesham_files_reviewed.htm


With regards to the following extract from your site, Nick:

"Some questions have been raised about the readings in Halt's
memo. Maybe the dial was misread, and maybe the needle was
waving around so much that an accurate measurement was
impossible. Well, all I can say to that is "maybe". But any
official assessment has to be based on the data received. It's
also been pointed out that the equipment used was not designed
for the task. Short of suggesting that the USAF have a piece of
kit designed specifically to measure radiation from UFOs, I'm
not sure how to deal with such comments. Of course the equipment
wasn't designed for such a task, so of course it wasn't ideal.
But one can only use the equipment available, so again, we can
only analyse the data we have, not the data we'd like to have."

The scenario is a bit like using a railway sleeper to measure
the thickness of a hair.

1. The equipment was operating at the limit of its sensitivity,
conservatively inducing a margin of error in the order of 30%
(50% is more likely).

2. It is not valid to compare "spot readings" to background
radiation. Background readings are averaged over a 10-minute
sample period, with the probe suspended 1 metre above ground
level, in areas clear of trees.

3. Even the scientists that the MOD checked with don't seem to
have taken the trouble to consult the NRPB. Cowling and
Horsecroft both overestimated the level of background radiation
as 0.01 and 0.015 mr, when in fact the official NRPB level is
given as 0.002 mr-only 20% of the lowest estimate!

4. Even assuming that the readings indicated significantly
higher than other readings taken in the same way in the
surrounding area, there are a myriad of possible causes for
this, eg shards of granite, banana or potato peelings, the top
of a whisky bottle, would all produce highly localised elevated
readings.

As I said in previous posts:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2001/oct/m10-006.shtml
http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2001/oct/m12-010.shtml

The readings are totally useless either as evidence for or
against an ETH explanation, or any explanation involving a
radioactive source. The cheese in your fridge would probably
produce higher readings if measured in the same way. Your
continued emphasis of their relevance amazes me!

"In summary, this is an amusing story, but inconsistent with the
data, and unsupported by any documentation or witness
testimony".


Regards,

Joe








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 3

                                   Signs?

From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 02:07:33 -0300
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 08:01:23 -0400
Subject: Signs?


Source: The Vallejo Times-Herald, California

http://www.timesheraldonline.com/articles/2003/07/02/front/news01.txt

July 2, 2003


Signs?

By Matthias Gafni
Times-Herald staff writer

ROCKVILLE - Scientists, curiosity seekers, media, UFO
specialists and a woman wanting to cure her paralyzed dog
swarmed to a Rockville wheat field Tuesday after learning of
extensive crop circles imprinted over the weekend.

It's unclear whether aliens, teenagers or alien teenagers landed
in the field - a mile northeast of Solano Community College at
the corner of Suisun Valley and Rockville roads - and created a
large group of 15 crop circles sometime before dawn Saturday.

Whatever the source of the circles, which are drawing onlookers
by the dozens, farmer Larry Balestra just wants his crop
harvested.

The Times-Herald interviewed Balestra, 41, as he stood in the
largest of the circles, with a 140-foot-diameter circle.

The farmer, owner of Larry's Produce on Suisun Valley Road, said
the 2.5-foot-high wheat grass must have been pressed late Friday
night or early Saturday morning. Balestra noticed an odd shadow
in his field as he drove by Saturday morning about 6 a.m.

"I walked out and saw a big circle. I was more concerned with
the damage," Balestra said. The smashed wheat is not
harvestable, he said, because the farm equipment cannot reach
the flattened crop. He planned to harvest the field the prior
week, but the contractor was not available.

Wheat is not the most profitable crop anyway, Balestra said, at
$100 a ton.

"It's not that much, but in farming, everything counts," said
Balestra, who mainly farms vegetables.

Since the crop circles have received wide media coverage, which
peaked in last year when the movie "Signs" came out, Balestra
has made continual calls to the harvester.

"I tell him, 'You don't understand. You have got to get this
down,' " he laughed.

"It's gotten out of control now, as far as the interest goes."

"Good Morning America" and other national television shows have
contacted the square-jawed, strong-handed farmer.

He has yet to concede extraterrestrial involvement.

"I don't know. I'm a fairly conservative guy. I thought at first
it was baloney. But now with all the curiosity and all the
people who believe in it ` I could be persuaded," he laughed.

The field workers, who live in a house a couple football fields
away, saw and heard nothing unusual Friday night, Balestra said.

On Tuesday, the farmer answered all the interested onlookers'
questions, such as "Were his animals acting normal?" and "Are
the electrical systems intact?" They were status quo, he said.

Fariba Bogzaran, 45, of West Marin County, a professor of dream
studies at J.F.K. University, traveled up from Berkeley after
hearing of the crop circles.

Before getting a firsthand look, Bogzaran contacted the farmer's
family members to let them know that "after 10 years of watching
crop circles, they would not be harmed by it."

In fact, "if it's a genuine one, next year his crop will grow
two inches higher," she said.

Bogzaran traveled to England last year to study crop circles
"with experts in the field." She has been studying the
phenomenon for 10 years and spoke in Berkeley a couple months
ago on the subject.

"The layout of this particular crop circle looks very similar to
early crop circles of early England," Bogzaran said.

"As far as whether it's genuine or people made it? It's hard to
tell, because so many people walked on it and the wheat was so
dry it broke off," she said.

Bogzaran was interested in the events surrounding the creation
of the crop circles.

"I'm also very fascinated by balls of light. There are witnesses
who've reported people seeing balls of light by these crop
circles," Bogzaran said. "One person in a nearby house saw a
ball of light Friday night."

Regardless of the crop circle's origin, the professor said the
creation had esthetic qualities.

"Even if people made it, they did a good job," she said. "Even
as artwork they are beautiful. It's landscape art.

"I love the poetry of it. I'm not a scientist as far as crop
circles go, but I'm a scientist of dream studies."

Diane Bingley, 44, of Fairfield, arrived with her camcorder to
record the circles.

"I think this was man-made because in a real crop circle the
stalks are broken higher up and you can feel the electro-
magnetic energy," Bingley said. "If you had a compass, it would
screw up your compass and a watch wouldn't work.

"I believe this was something kids probably made," she said.
"But, I think it's interesting. It's a fun crop circle."

Bingley, who has studied crop circles on her own for years, said
past recorded crop circles were authentic, but the artists may
not be aliens.

"I think there are time travelers. I think that's a
possibility," she said.

Bingley said she wanted to try the healing powers of the crop
circle on her pet.

"I want to bring my paralyzed dog out from the car to see if
there would be some positive influence," she said.

Balestra just shook his head when asked about the public's
reaction.

"People are really excited when they come out here and see this.
To me, that's amazing," he said.

Balestra has only been farming that field for three years and
this was his first crop circle experience.

He rotates the crops each year on the field. Last year's crop
was corn.

"I should've planted corn again this year," Balestra laughed.

E-mail Matthias Gafni at mgafni@thnewsnet.com or call 553-6825.







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 3

                      Re: 'Larry King Live' On Roswell

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 01:16:23 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 08:04:11 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Larry King Live' On Roswell


>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 05:53:35 -0800
>Subject: 'Larry King Live' On Roswell

>First impression: it was awful, appalling, dreadful to watch
>Glenn Dennis and Walter Haut hesitate and stumble over answers
>or, when addressed, sit in silence.

Hi Bill,

This subject came up on another List, but according to a release
email that was sent around, in late 00 or 01 the below is the
general description of the information that Walt gave in his
oral history interview to Wendy Connors and Dennis Balthaser on
11/15/00. Apparently per discussion with Walt, and the family,
none of this will be released until after his death. I would
observe that limitations such as this are not uncommon in oral
history interviews etc etc.

Begin email excerpt on Walters oral history interview....

 1. Gave description of the alien body

 2. Gave description of the disc

 3. Confirmed the crash site was the Corona site

 4. Confirmation that Ramey, DeBose, Blanchard, etc. agreed on
    using the weather balloon story as a cover.

 5. Received a clarification on how the press release was done.

 6. Received nice description of Blanchard/Haut relationship

 7. There were photos taken of the crash site

 8. Learned he was a bombadier and received a DSM, etc. and a
    Purple Heart and how and why.

 9. Learned how he came to Roswell and why he left the service
    and stayed in Roswell.

10. Learned about his youth, schooling, parents, jobs, etc.

End Haut email excerpt...

At the time some researchers were griping and complaining how
Walter told Wendy and Dennis more...to which I say he may have
trusted them more, then he trusted other researchers.

Cheers,

Robert







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 3

                      Re: Speaking Of 'Non-Disclosure'

From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr>
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 15:51:46 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 13:11:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Speaking Of 'Non-Disclosure'


>From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net>
>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 10:03:03 -0400
>Subject: Speaking Of 'Non-Disclosure'

>Speaking of "non-disclosure", when does the public get to view
>_all_ of the 16 recovered implants in possession of National
>Inistitute of Discovery Science (NIDS), and what partial
>analyses may be available for _all_ of their implants?


To Eleanor and the List,

Thank you for this information.

I am surprised to learn that NIDS would have 16 implants in its
possession.

Where did you find that out?


Gildas Bourdais








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 3

                                 Re: Signs?

From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 12:23:30 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 16:26:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Signs?


>From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 02:07:33 -0300
>Subject: Signs?

>Source: The Vallejo Times-Herald, California

>http://www.timesheraldonline.com/articles/2003/07/02/front/news01.txt

>July 2, 2003

<snip>

>Fariba Bogzaran, 45, of West Marin County, a professor of dream
>studies at J.F.K. University, traveled up from Berkeley after
>hearing of the crop circles.

I couldn't help being curious about this person. Is she for
real?

Answer: Yes. John F. Kennedy University looks like a serious
instituiton. It's in San Francisco. It has quite a large and
varied psychology department, or really a series of psychology
departments, offering many specialties. There's a Graduate
School for Holistic Studies, and one of its programs is
Consciousness Studies, which isn't a PhD program; it only offers
a Master's degree. Bogzaran is listed as a member of the
Consciousness Studies department. Dream Studies is a non-degree
certificate program, also part of the Graduate School for
Holistic Studies.

Here's Bogzaran's biography (included in a list of the
Consciousness Studies faculty):

Fariba Bogzaran, PhD . Assistant professor, Consciousness
Studies; Adjunct faculty member, Arts and Consciousness. BS,
University of Wisconsin, 1983; MA, California Institute of
Integral Studies, 1989; PhD, California Institute of Integral
Studies, 1994. Bogzaran is an internationally known and widely
published authority on dreams, art, shamanism and a variety of
Asian health practices. She is also an artist and curator, with
extensive exhibitions of her own artwork. As a curator, Bogzaran
is well-known for her work with the surrealist artist Gordon
Onslow Ford, with whom she has collaborated on numerous books
and exhibitions. Bogzaran lectures internationally on a wide
variety of topics. She has been a member of the Arts and
Consciousness faculty since 1989.

Following are descriptions of the various departments and
schools mentioned in all this. We could conclude either that
these studies are now quite respectable, or that California
craziness has infected even a large university:

Consciousness Studies program:

The 58-unit Master of Arts in Consciousness Studies Program
provides a flexible and supportive structure for students to
examine the meaning of human experience and the nature of self
and reality. The curriculum includes courses that challenge
students' beliefs, examine the relationship between
consciousness and the world, and explore new possibilities for
personal and social transformation.

Departmental courses encourage the integration and synthesis of
a wide range of subjects. Courses in the new physics, living
systems theory, altered states of consciousness and issues in
deep ecology provide a new scientific paradigm for the study of
consciousness. Personal growth and creativity are explored
through courses in myth, symbol and methods of self-exploration.
East-West religious perspectives and spiritual traditions are
examined as different paths to spiritual awareness. The nature
of intelligence, insight and human consciousness are explored
through courses in transpersonal and East-West psychologies.

Students may choose 9 to 13 elective units from various programs
throughout the university. These electives allow students to
explore diverse areas, such as dream studies, art and
spirituality, comparative mysticism and religion, movement and
health, organizational leadership, and human relations and
communication. With departmental permission and supervision,
students may also develop an individualized concentration by
taking all or most of their elective units within a single area
such as Dream Studies (see below). Students have the option of
completing their degree program with either a 6-unit thesis or a
2-unit masters integration project.

Dream Studies program:

We spend one-third of our lives in sleep and one-third of that
time dreaming. Throughout human history, dreams have been shown
to be an important vehicle in problem solving, creativity, self-
growth and spiritual inspiration.

The 36-unit Certificate in Dream Studies is one of the
pioneering programs within an accredited university to explore
the inner worlds of dreams. Offering more than fifteen courses
that directly and indirectly address the study of dreams, the
classes are taught by experts, authors and researchers who have
dedicated their lives to exploring this important state of
consciousness. This certificate is designed for students and
professionals who desire to work with and explore dreams for use
in education, research, consulting and writing.

Graduate School for Holistic Studies:

The Graduate School for Holistic Studies, founded in 1977,
offers a total of seven master's degrees, one MFA and two
certificates. Each degree program shares a common educational
goal: to prepare students to work professionally for positive
change in the world, based on their own direct experiences of
personal growth and transformation.

The Department of Arts & Consciousness has two degrees, an MFA
in Studio Arts and an MA in Transformative Arts. The faculty and
students form a community of artists dedicated to a common
vision-a laboratory for exploring new ways of being artists.

The Department of Integral Studies offers three degrees: an MA
in Consciousness Studies, an MA in Holistic Health Education and
an MA in Integral Psychology. Each program offers a different
lens through which students examine the integration of body,
mind and spirit.

The Counseling Psychology Department offers an MA in Counseling
Psychology* with three specializations: Somatic Psychology;
Transpersonal Psychology; and, at our Campbell campus, Holistic
Studies. All of these programs emphasize a combination of
personal process and psychological theory within a framework
that integrates mind, body and spirit.

At our Campbell campus (near San Jose), the Graduate School for
Holistic Studies offers an MA in Counseling Psychology with a
specialization in Holistic Studies*. This unique program
integrates the somatic and transpersonal psychology
perspectives.

* All our counseling psychology degrees meet the educational
requirements for the California Marriage and Family Therapist
(MFT) license.

A recent graduating class from this school was honored, the
website says, with a "ritual." There were some sweet photos of
the ceremony, but no description of what the ritual was, other
than to say that it included a reading of the Dylan Thomas poem
"Fern Hill."


Greg Sandow








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 3

                  Re: Mars Photos From Dr. Tom Van Flandern

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 12:29:49 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 16:30:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Mars Photos From Dr. Tom Van Flandern


>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 14:53:18 -0700 (PDT)
>Subject: Re: Mars Photos From Dr. Tom Van Flandern

>>From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net>
>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>>Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 10:00:18 -0400
>>Subject: Mars Photos From Dr. Tom Van Flandern

><snip>

>>I saved a few from the Coast to Coast web site which appear most
>>interesting and they can be directly called up from the links
>>below much more quickly than either Coast to Coast's site or Dr.
>>Van Flandern's. All are around 50-65K:

>>http://www.raven1.net/crownedface.jpe (new "face")
>>http://www.raven1.net/child.jpe (l-h photo is untouched)
>>http://www.raven1.net/glasstube.jpe (the tubes are ribbed)
>>http://www.raven1.net/tubenetwork.jpe
>>http://www.raven1.net/hexcrater.jpe
>>http://www.raven1.net/plaintrack.jpe

>IMHO, these images are an embarrassment to the planetary SETI
>community (such as it is). I've written extensively on the
>"Crowned Face" and "tubes" (which aren't really tubes) on my
>Mars anomaly website:

>http://www.mactonnies.com/cydonia.html


A BIG AMEN!, Mac. In my opinion, those who think those images
reveal anything other than purely natural structures, live in a
fantasy world of their own creation, encouraged by like-minded
groupies.

I would remind believers of the story of The Boy Who Cried
"WOLF!" If they keep this up, and someone among them should come
across some real evidence of intelligent construction on Mars,
we risk no one heeding the announcement because "WOLF!" had been
too often the cry when it was nothing but a Labrador Retriever
begging to lick us on our faces!

Let those who gawk with their mouths all too wide realize that
the disparity of structures with seen on Mars with natural
structures on earth may most likely reflect the very different
geological history and weather environments over the ages on
Mars.

When will they ever learn?!

Ray Stanford


"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 3

                          Secrecy News -- 07/03/03

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 11:42:50 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 16:33:56 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 07/03/03


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2003, Issue No. 56
July 3, 2003


**   GUIDELINES ON "SENSITIVE" INFO WILL BE ISSUED FOR COMMENT
**   PURSUIT OF HISTORICAL INTELLIGENCE BUDGET DATA GOES ON
**   DOE WILL REVISE AND RELEASE HEU REPORT
**   RECENT FOIA DECISIONS
**   WHITE HOUSE REPORT ON DRUG KINGPINS
**   DOD ON PROJECT SHAD


GUIDELINES ON "SENSITIVE" INFO WILL BE ISSUED FOR COMMENT

Procedures for implementing a new information control category
called "sensitive homeland security information" (SHSI) are
still under development but "will be published for public
comment prior to adoption," a Bush Administration official told
Secrecy News yesterday.

In last year's Homeland Security Act, Congress directed the
President to prescribe procedures to "identify and safeguard
homeland security information that is sensitive but
unclassified" (section 892).  See:

   http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/2002/hr5710-111302.html#hsi

But in an act of what might be termed legislative malpractice,
Congress failed to specify what it meant by "sensitive."  This
raised fears in many quarters that the provision would only
encourage the Bush Administration to indiscriminately impose new
access restrictions on otherwise unclassified information.

In part to allay such fears, Administration officials held
several outreach meetings last year with interested non-
governmental organizations, and promised that the public would
have an opportunity to comment on the new procedures, a promise
that was reiterated this week.

First, however, the draft guidance will be circulated to
executive branch agencies for their comment, which is expected
to happen later this summer.

For related background, the most comprehensive resource is
"'Sensitive But Unclassified' and Other Federal Security
Controls on Scientific and Technical Information: History and
Current Controversy" by Genevieve Knezo, Congressional Research
Service, April 2003:

http://www.fas.org/irp/crs/RL31845.pdf


PURSUIT OF HISTORICAL INTELLIGENCE BUDGET DATA GOES ON

A Freedom of Information Act lawsuit seeking declassification of
historical intelligence budget data led to a Central
Intelligence Agency assertion June 27 that it was "unable to
locate" aggregate intelligence budget figures for fiscal years
1947 and 1948.

In response, the plaintiff (yours truly) this week asked the
Court for leave to expand the scope of the lawsuit to encompass
subsidiary agency budget totals as well as aggregate figures,
extending from 1947 through 1970.  See this July 2 Motion for
Leave:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/foia/1947/sa070203.html

Groping for an explanation as to why the CIA would resist
disclosure of budget data from 1947, UFO aficionado and author
Whitley Strieber proposed that it might be part of a continuing
coverup of the July 1947 crash of an unidentified flying object
in Roswell, New Mexico.  See his "More Evidence of a Roswell
Coverup?":

http://www.unknowncountry.com/news/?id=2860

Roswell mythology aside, this presumes that official secrecy is
purposeful and calculated to achieve a specific end.  More often
than not, it appears that such is not the case.  In fact, when
it comes to CIA records, it is often more instructive to inquire
why particular information -- such as the disputed CIA-DIA
report on those Iraqi trailers -- has been publicly disclosed,
not why most other information has been withheld.

CIA historian Michael Warner recently observed that in the 1940s
and some time thereafter, the U.S. government fiscal year ended
on June 30, not September 30 as is the case today.  This means
that the Roswell crash, the enactment of the National Security
Act and the establishment of the Central Intelligence Agency,
though they took place in calendar year 1947, all occurred in
fiscal year 1948.


DOE WILL REVISE AND RELEASE HEU REPORT

The Department of Energy now says that it will release a revised
version of its report on the history of highly enriched uranium
(HEU) production that has been eagerly sought for years by
nuclear non-proliferation advocates, National Academy of
Sciences panels, environmental groups and others.

The report must first be revised, however, because the authors
believe that the current version "contains unclassified but
sensitive security information that terrorists could use as a
road map to the locations of DOE fissile nuclear materials,"
wrote Joseph S. Mahaley of the DOE Office of Security on June 9.
 See:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2003/06/doe060903.html

Mr. Mahaley was responding to an inquiry from Sen. Gordon H.
Smith (R-OR) on behalf of Roger Heusser, one of those seeking
the report's release.  Ironically, Mr. Heusser is a former
director of the DOE Office of Nuclear and National Security
Information.

"I am quite familiar with the document and signed the
declassification of it," Mr. Heusser noted with some irritation.

"This report will provide assistance to worldwide
nonproliferation efforts by revealing where United States highly
enriched uranium resides in the United States as well as in
other nations," DOE said of the HEU report in 1997, in what now
seems a different era. "It will also assist regulators in
environmental, health, and safety matters at domestic sites
where this material is stored or buried."  See:

http://www.osti.gov/html/osti/opennet/document/jan97/prcfacts.ht
ml#I11


RECENT FOIA DECISIONS

Recent rulings in Freedom of Information Act lawsuits provide an
interesting but none too encouraging snapshot of how the courts
are dealing with such cases.  See "New FOIA Decisions, April-
June 2003" helpfully provided by the Justice Department Office
of Information and Privacy:

http://www.usdoj.gov/oip/foiapost/2003foiapost24.htm


WHITE HOUSE REPORT ON DRUG KINGPINS

In a July 1 letter to the House and Senate Intelligence
Committees, President Bush summarized a new report on foreign
narcotics traffickers and identified and identified seven
persons and entities newly designated under the Foreign
Narcotics Kingpin Designation Act.  See:

http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2003/07/wh070103.html


DOD ON PROJECT SHAD

The Defense Department announced on July 1 that it had concluded
its investigation into the biological and chemical warfare
testing program known as Project 112.  The Project, conducted
from 1962 to 1973, included the use of actual biological and
chemical agents on U.S. military personnel as part of the
Shipboard Hazard and Defense (SHAD) program.

See the DoD announcement here:

http://www.defenselink.mil/releases/2003/nr20030701-0163.html

Several members of Congress criticized the move.

"Thousands of veterans unknowingly participated in SHAD tests
that could have exposed them to serious health risks," said Rep.
Mike Thompson (D-CA) in a June 30 statement.

"A decision by the Department to discontinue its investigation
would be premature and would put thousands of veterans at
further risk," Rep. Thompson and others wrote in a letter to
Defense Secretary Rumsfeld.  See:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2003/06/thompson.html

See also "Pentagon Reveals Secret Bio, Chem Tests" by Robert
Gehrke, Associated Press, June 30:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A54221-2003Jun30.html






_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood@fas.org
voice:  (202) 454-4691







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 3

                 Re: Crop Circles Work Of Aliens Or Hoaxers?

From: Max Burns <max.burns@ntlworld.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 20:32:01 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 16:36:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Crop Circles Work Of Aliens Or Hoaxers?


>From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
>To: UFO UpDates -Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 15:51:08 -0300
>Subject: Crop Circles Work Of Aliens Or Hoaxers?

>Source: The Express & Echo - Exeter, UK

>http://www.thisisexeter.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=101955&command=displayCont
ent&sourceNode=99871&contentPK=6213051

>12:00 - 02 July 2003

>Are These Crop Circles The Work Of Aliens Or Hoaxes?

>By John Fletcher

>Have aliens made their mark in a Devon field, or could these
>first crop circles in the area be the work of pranksters?


Dear Listers,

The information that I have with my contact with a number of
circle makers in the UK is that;

1. To imply that the "crop circles" made by humans are hoaxes is
to have the position that the aliens are making them and the the
human circle makers are the hoaxes.

2. The information that I have is that all the crop circles are
man made.

3. If the circle makers stopped making the circles there would
be nothing to report.

4. That there is a number of paranormal experiences being
encounterd by humans often while making the circles that can
sometimes be quite astounding..

This is information that I have gleamed from various UK circle
makers.

Obviously this will be a bone of contention, and I in no way
wish to to put a damper on what others may consider the truth.
But the fact is that I have knowledge that has been given to me
direct from some of the circle makers. Things that can be
considered paranormal are happening and that the circles do need
further investigation. Not from the position that; " It Must Be
Aliens". But from the position that something is apparently
happening and that indeed needs further investigation.


Max

Its nice to be important but its more important to be nice








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 3

                      Re: Daily Mail Bentwaters Article

From: Max Burns <max.burns@ntlworld.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 20:36:56 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 16:38:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Daily Mail Bentwaters Article


>From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 20:41:23 +0100
>Subject: Daily Mail Bentwaters Article

>List,

>Today's Daily Mail carried a full-page article on the Bentwaters
>UFO case, on page 10. It examined the claims of former United
>States Air Force airman Kevin Conde, who alleges that he
>unwittingly caused the Rendlesham Forest incident by playing a
>practical joke on a colleague, spooking him with the lights from
>a US police vehicle. These claims are not new, and have
>circulated on the internet for a couple of years. They received
>some more recent coverage in a regional BBC programme screened
>on Monday (and possibly in some of the East Anglian newspapers),
>but this is the first time the claims have received publicity in
>a national newspaper.

>There are a number of reasons why Conde's claims should be
>treated with caution. Firstly, it should be recalled that the
>UFO sightings took place over a series of nights. The sighting
>by Lieutenant Colonel Charles Halt and the men he took into the
>forest was on a different night to the original sighting by
>Penniston, Burroughs and Cabansag.

>Conde's story does not fit the observational data from the
>various United States Air Force military personnel who saw UFOs.
>See for example the original United States Air Force witness
>statements published in Georgina Bruni's book on the case, You
>Can't Tell The People.


Nick these are good points and I agree. A better question is who
is supporting these nearly new claims and why.

Also who is to benifit from this testimony and why has it re
appeared at this time again.


Max








                         The UFO UpDates Archive
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 3

                   Dayton Held Part Of Roswell UFO Mystery

From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 14:25:59 -0300
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 16:43:02 -0400
Subject: Dayton Held Part Of Roswell UFO Mystery


Source: The Beacon Journal - Akron, Ohio

http://www.ohio.com/mld/beaconjournal/news/local/6225067.htm

Posted on Thu, Jul. 03, 2003

Dayton Held Part Of Roswell Ufo Mystery

From 1947 to 1969, the U.S. Air Force investigated unidentified
flying objects under Project Blue Book, a program headquartered
at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton.

Of 12,618 sightings reported to Project Blue Book before the
program was terminated, 701 remained unexplained.

But what most folks remember from that era are the rumors
surrounding 'Hangar 18'.

This month in 1947, witnesses said they saw military personnel
recover the remains of aliens after their spaceship crashed in
Roswell, N.M.

Reportedly, the bodies and wreckage were flown to Dayton aboard
a B-29 and stored in the infamous hangar.






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 3

                     Blue Book UFO Unknowns On NIDS Site

From: Colm Kelleher <nids@anv.net>
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 11:07:22 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 16:47:33 -0400
Subject: Blue Book UFO Unknowns On NIDS Site


For those interested in the ongoing re-appraisal by Brad Sparks
of Project Blue Book cases.

Colm Kelleher
NIDS http://www.nidsci.org

Comprehensive Catalog of 1,500 Project BLUE BOOK UFO Unknowns:

Work in Progress (Version 1.6, June 18, 2003)

Compiled by Brad Sparks
Copyright 2001-2003

The main purpose of this catalog at present is to help identify
and fill in where possible missing or difficult-to-obtain U.S.
Air Force documentation on better quality Unexplained UFO cases,
not to present here the "proof" of UFO reality nor to discuss
possible IFO identifications, subjects reserved for later
analysis once full files can be examined. Here the goal is
preliminary and to compile more complete documentation, not the
perfection of the analysis or categorizations. This catalog will
be used eventually to produce another catalog of UFO Best
Evidence after a screening process based on Hynek's and other
criteria and for that reason columns for data on Duration, No.
of Witnesses, Angular Size and "Instrumentation/Scientists etc."
have been separately presented from the available case data
and/or calculated where possible.

When Project Blue Book (BB) closed down on Jan. 30, 1970 (it was
not on Dec. 17, 1969, which was merely the announcement date by
the Secretary of the Air Force) the total number of Unidentified
sightings was thought to be 701 and this is the number given on
all subsequent press releases and so-called "fact sheets."
However, based on the review by Hynek and the CUFOS staff of the
released sanitized BB microfilm and Hynek's personal records
which included many missing (and unsanitized) BB documents, the
final number was determined to have been approximately 587,
apparently reflecting an IFO elimination process carried out on
old historical cases by the last BB Chief, Major Hector
Quintanilla in the 60's (and of dubious scientific validity
based on examples McDonald studied), which must have reduced the
number of Unexplained cases by 114. Evidently the AF did not
update its annual historical UFO statistics to reflect this
gradual winnowing process, not realizing it could improve upon
its anti-UFO PR position by reducing the perennially
embarrassing number of Unidentifieds.

However, in reverse, Hynek re-evaluated 53 Blue Book IFO cases
as Unexplained UFO cases, bringing the total partially back, up
to 640, unfortunately a complete list identifying these is not
available, though some of the worksheets have been copied by Jan
Aldrich from CUFOS-Hynek files. A number of the re-evaluated
cases have been included in The Hynek UFO Report book published
in 1977.

Much more disturbing are the indications from my limited review
of BB cases that there may be as many as possibly 4,000
Unexplained UFO cases miscategorized as IFO's in the BB files.
McDonald similarly stated in 1968 at his CASI lecture that from
his review of BB cases he estimated that 30-40% of 12,000 cases
were Unexplained, or about 3,600 to 4,800. These are mostly
military cases and many involve radar.

The BB files total some 13,134 cases altogether, UFO and IFO,
according to the Hynek-CUFOS revised statistics, or about 14,613
when 1,558 "info only" cases are included, per the FUFOR Index.
Many cases are actually multiple incidents filed under one
date/location. For simplicity I am therefore rounding up to
15,000 as the approximate total number of UFO incidents in the
BB files.

This catalog is based primarily on the outstanding catalog
prepared by Don Berliner of the Fund for UFO Research (FUFOR)
from his exhaustive review of the then unreleased Project Blue
Book (BB) files at Maxwell AFB (Air Force Base), Alabama, in
Jan. 1974, which included many witness names that were later
sanitized out ("blacked out") of the public release of the BB
files by the Air Force in 1974-5. Berliner's effort ought to be
supplemented with the tremendous intelligence coup by William
Weitzel and FUFOR in early March 1998 in discovering and later
securing copies of the unsanitized pre-redaction record copy 16
mm Maxwell AFB microfilm of the BB files that the National
Archives inadvertently made available (at the College Park,
Maryland, facility in Record Group 341 / 190 / 68 / 08 / 03,
boxes 1-6, 70 films numbered 30,362 through 30,431), but no
resources are available for such a large-scale research project.
 All of UFOlogy owes an enormous debt of gratitude to FUFOR for
this lasting contribution to the preservation and disclosure of
this vast treasure of priceless military UFO records.

The Berliner catalog has been heavily augmented here with:

(a) Listing of BB Unknowns selected from the National Archives
index of BB cases (published by Steiger in Nov 1976 and
available on the World Wide Web at various websites) but lacking
descriptive sighting details.

(b) Partial case listings of re-evaluations by Hynek and CUFOS
staff (primarily in The Hynek UFO Report, Dell, Dec. 1977), who
personally retained many thousands of unsanitized BB case files
in his personal papers which are now with CUFOS.

(c) The 1969 Magonia catalog of landing/close encounter cases by
Jacques Vall=E9e who as Hynek's assistant in the 60's examined the
BB files and Hynek's copies of BB cases, when many reports had
not yet "disappeared."

(d) Battelle Memorial Institute list of 12 Best Unknowns which
also caught a few cases before records vanished (May 5, 1955,
report issued as Blue Book Special Report No. 14).

(e) Lists by James McDonald who saw and copied BB files on five
research trips from June 1966 to Aug. 1970 and conducted his own
exhaustive and independent investigations, especially see his
prepared statement in the 1968 House Committee on Science and
Astronautics hearing (McDonald 1968) and his 1969 AAAS paper as
revised and published posthumously by Sagan & Page (McDonald
1972).

(f) Records obtained by Jan Aldrich of Project 1947 directly
from unsanitized BB files on the Maxwell AFB microfilm, from
McDonald, CUFOS and Keyhoe/Richard Hall/FUFOR files, from FOIA
requests, and from SHG oral history and file recovery efforts.

(g) Condon Committee investigations of BB cases published in the
Condon Report (Bantam Books edition, New York, Jan. 1969;
especially see the convenient "Sightings, Unexplained" listing
in the index, p. 961).

(h) FUFOR's Index to the Case Files of Project Blue Book (1997)
which consists of a computer printout reportedly prepared by
David R. Saunders of the Condon Committee, but which
inexplicably includes cases up to Dec. 1969 near the end of BLUE
BOOK and over a year after the AF contract with the Condon
Committee had ended.

(i) National Aviation Reporting Center on Anomalous Phenomena
(NARCAP).

(j) Willy Smith's case evaluations (On Pilots and UFOs, UNICAT
1997).

(k) NICAP website compiled by Francis Ridge.

(l) Dominique Weinstein's Aircraft/UFO Encounters (Nov. 1997;
and rev. 5th ed. June 2001, Aircraft UAP Encounters).

(m) H. B. Darrach and Robert Ginna, LIFE magazine article,
April 7, 1952.

(n) Various USAF records obtained by Freedom of Information Act
(FOIA) requests, especially a collection of long-missing Project
SIGN/GRUDGE records found at the St. Louis records center,
however please note that it is uncertain whether all of these
cases are in the BB/predecessor files or had ever been and got
lost or were removed.

(o) U.S. Air Force Intelligence TOP SECRET analysis of flying
disc incidents, April 28, 1949, Report No. 100-203-79 or "AIR
203."

(p) Martin Shough catalog of radar UFO incidents, 1987, revised
2002, and augmented by Jan Aldrich.

(q) My personal investigations and research (especially all
bracketed [ ] material and most parenthetical ( ) material).







                         The UFO UpDates Archive
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 3

                      Ardmore Tennessee Report - 06-03

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 12:02:11 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 16:50:33 -0400
Subject: Ardmore Tennessee Report - 06-03



Ardmore Tennessee, United Sates

Date: Early June, 2003
Time: 9.00 p.m.

I received a report from a very kind and helpful lady on July 1,
2003. She was looking for possible answers over what her and her
husband witnessed at the beginning of June at 9:00 p.m. in
Ardmore Tennessee, United States. Also the witnessed talked with
a friend shortly afterwards, explaining what the couple saw. To
the witnesses surprise her friend also said she noticed the same
bright light on the same evening at the same time when she was
outside, but never gave it much thought until the witnesses
brought the topic up.

Report & Update below:

I have been looking for something for almost a month now, to
help me understand what we saw one night.

We live in Southern Tennessee USA, in the central part. My
husband and I were coming home about 9:00 PM, and as we started
down the road towards our home, I got a glimpse of a very bright
light off to the north of us, not very high up, over the tree
tops, it was more of a glowing or illumination...not a
reflection! I told my husband to look, and as he looked up, he
said it was a plane. I told him that it was not and since it was
moving slow, I was gonna follow it, and we did. We took back
roads and tried to keep it in site, at one point, we went down a
dirt road and it looked like it just hovered above the trees,
maybe 1500 feet or so. It was a giant egg shape.

At first I thought it was a blimp, and as of yet, I am not sure
what it was.....one thing for sure, it was something I had never
seen before. There was no sound at all, and it was moving very
slowly. Not once did it speed up. As it moved out of sight, we
had to drive a short distance to be able to see it again, and it
was moving to the South west....still not making a sound. As we
got into town, where we could see it better, it was moving
further away, and appeared to be going higher. Other people had
to have seen it, but nothing was ever mentioned in the papers or
to the police. About 2 weeks later, I was talking to a friend
who lives in the area and told her about it, and it jogged her
memory to the same night, she went outside, and just looked up
and seen a bright light, and wondered what it was, but never
thought nothing else about it. I have tried to find out what a
blimp looks like at night in the sky, and I can't find anything.
I wanted to call the airport in Huntsville Ala, and see if they
seen anything on radar, but my husband said, "They probably
wouldn't tell you if they did." So I didn't call them.

Can you help me out, what do you think it was? Anything you can
tell me, I would appreciate it.

Thank You.

(name deleted by HBCC UFO Research)


Update: I asked a number of questions in hopes of trying to get
a better idea of what the folks saw that evening. Below is the
witnesses response.

Thanks for the answer to my email. I will try to answer the
questions as well as possible.

It took place about the first part of June, of this year
2003.,about 9:00 PM. The weather had been rainy for a few days,
but it was rather clear that night, during that time. From the
time we spotted the light, until we lost sight of it, was about
30 minutes, I think. Maybe 45, with all the driving up and down
dirt roads and trying to find it again when it would go behind
the trees and hills. At one time when we seen it hovering, we
had driven down a hill on a dirt road, and it was off to our
left, hovering above the trees, if I held out my arm and
measured the length of it between my index finger and thumb, it
would have probably been about an inch and half to 2 inches in
length.

(My arms are short also) When we seen it hovering, we could not
make out any details on it, it was just bright, no sound, no
flashing lights, no indications of windows or anything like
that. It was just so bright, I don't see how anyone didn't see
it. The town we live in, is Ardmore Tennessee, which borders the
state of Alabama also. Interstate 65 runs north and south. And
the town of Ardmore is located on the line. As we drove into
town, so we could get a better look, due to the horizon line, we
noticed that no one even acted like they seen it. The teens were
cruising the strip and not even noticing what was going on. As
we entered the town, the road we were on was coming from the
north east., and the object had moved across town and was headed
to the West, southwest. My friend that seen the light, lives
south west of Ardmore, and she only briefly got a glimpse of the
bright light, they have a lot of trees there and she couldn't
see it at all, just a light in the sky, through the trees.

The bright light was like the color of a fluorescent light, kind
of glowing. Putting off a lot of light around it. I said it was
egg shaped, more of an oval, with the egg lying on its side, not
standing up. When it hovered over the trees, it wasn't long,
rather, we stopped and looked at it, maybe 2 minutes, and then
we drove off, trying to get a better look, as it started moving
slowly again. It never made a sudden movement, and never sped
up, unless it did so while we were driving to get a better look.
The path it took, seemed to be straight. We were the ones going
in circles.

I was in awe, I have always been amazed at these things, and
although people have made fun of me, I know my husband seen it
with me that time. When we finally got out of the woods and back
up on top of the hill coming into town, it was headed on to the
west, southwest. And getting to far off to see it good, but you
could still see the bright light. It was just getting farther
away, and my husband wanted to come home, and quit chasing
something we may not want to catch.

Usually when something odd is in the sky, the meteorologist say
something about it on the news at 10:00 that night, but not a
single word was said. Especially Adrian Gibson on channel 31 in
Huntsville Ala. where we get most of the weather conditions.
That's why my husband said it was probably a blimp. I got on the
Internet and tried to look up pictures of blimps at night, and
nothing came up....that was any help. My friend said she didn't
see anything that she could speak of, except the light. She
didn't see the object. So I guess we will have to go on my word.
Attached is a drawing I did to kind of show you how it appeared
at first.

Thanks again (name deleted by HBCC UFO Research)

The statement below referrers to a computer drawing the witness
sent to me which gave me a better idea of where they were when
they spotted the object. I will be posting this report along
with the computer image to my site soon.

Ps. from the bottom of the page, we were going down a steep hill
to our home, which is the X (we were going North, but down hill)

I would really like to extend my thanks to the witness for this
wonderful report.


Brian Vike, Director
HBCC UFO Research
Canadian Toll Free UFO Hotline 1 866 262 1989 - Free call.





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 3

                     Strange Days... Indeed July 5, 2003

From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 07:49:24 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 17:49:10 -0400
Subject: Strange Days... Indeed July 5, 2003


Please tune in to EBK's "Strange Days...Indeed!" this Saturday
at 9:30 P.M. Eastern. I will be playing audio clips from January
22-23, 1958 regarding the censoring of Maj. Donald E. Keyhoe on
the CBS Armstrong Circle Theater's production, 'UFO: The Enigma
of the Skies'. Plus audio clips from listener's requests. It
should be a fun hour, so have your tape recorders ready.


Wendy Connors







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 3

                           Bentwaters Hoax Claims

From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 22:09:06 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 18:06:44 -0400
Subject: Bentwaters Hoax Claims


List,

It may just be a coincidence (although my Ministry of Defence
training encourages me to be suspicious of coincidences) but has
anyone given any thought to the name of the person who is
retrospectively claiming that his practical joke led to the
various UFO sightings at Bentwaters, Woodbridge, and Rendlesham
Forest?

The individual concerned is Kevin Conde. Presumably that could
be pronounced "conned". Is this a clue? Who is kidding who? Have
we all been... conned?


Best wishes,

Nick Pope







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 3

                  Re: Mars Photos From Dr. Tom Van Flandern

From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net>
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 17:18:26 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 18:08:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Mars Photos From Dr. Tom Van Flandern

>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 14:53:18 -0700 (PDT)
>Subject: Re: Mars Photos From Dr. Tom Van Flandern

<snip>

>IMHO, these images are an embarrassment to the planetary SETI
>community (such as it is). I've written extensively on the
>"Crowned Face" and "tubes" (which aren't really tubes) on my
>Mars anomaly website:

>http://www.mactonnies.com/cydonia.html

So what you are saying, Mac, is that no such data was received
and made public by NASA?


Eleanor White








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 3

                      Re: Speaking Of 'Non-Disclosure'

From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net>
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 17:52:52 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 18:17:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Speaking Of 'Non-Disclosure'


>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 15:51:46 +0200
>Subject: Re: Speaking Of 'Non-Disclosure'

<snip>

>To Eleanor and the List,

>Thank you for this information.

>I am surprised to learn that NIDS would have 16 implants in its
>possession.

>Where did you find that out?

>Gildas Bourdais

I first heard that from John Velez on a Strange Days... Indeed
broadcast, I'm guessing about a year ago? I wrote Dr. Colm
Kelleher and asked him the question soon afterward, and as I can
best remember got a kind of non-answer. (That PC is now dead so
I can't recover his reply.) However, Dr. Kelleher didn't deny he
had the implants.


Eleanor White


[See: http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/apr/m17-005.shtml
 --ebk]






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 3

                      Re: Speaking of 'Non-Disclosure'

From: Colm Kelleher <nids@anv.net>
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 15:45:42 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 19:06:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Speaking of 'Non-Disclosure'


>From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net>
>Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 17:52:52 -0400
>Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 18:17:48 -0400
>Subject: Re: Speaking Of 'Non-Disclosure'

>>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 15:51:46 +0200
>>Subject: Re: Speaking Of 'Non-Disclosure'

><snip>

>>Thank you for this information.

>>I am surprised to learn that NIDS would have 16 implants in its
>>possession.

>>Where did you find that out?

>>Gildas Bourdais

>I first heard that from John Velez on a Strange Days... Indeed
>broadcast, I'm guessing about a year ago? I wrote Dr. Colm
>Kelleher and asked him the question soon afterward, and as I can
>best remember got a kind of non-answer. (That PC is now dead so
>I can't recover his reply.) However, Dr. Kelleher didn't deny he
>had the implants.

>Eleanor White

>[See: http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/apr/m17-005.shtml
> --ebk]


To quickly clear up this issue.

In 1996 NIDS conducted an analysis on "implants" from two
individuals.

The report has been continuously on the NIDS web site since
1998:

http://www.nidsci.org/articles/metal/metal.html

After the analysis of the first two implants had been completed
the NIDS science advisory board (SAB), see:

http://www.nidsci.org/personnel.html

strongly urged that NIDS cease analysis of any further
"implants" on the grounds that the first two analyses had
yielded nothing beyond normal, trivial, mundane data.

The NIDS SAB stated that no evidence of anomalies had been found
in these "implants".

NIDS has never received "16 implants". After 1996, no further
work was done by NIDS on "implants" for the reasons given.


Colm A. Kelleher Ph.D

Administrator

NIDS





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 3

                  Re: Mars Photos From Dr. Tom Van Flandern

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 16:03:20 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 19:13:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Mars Photos From Dr. Tom Van Flandern


>From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 17:18:26 -0400
>Subject: Re: Mars Photos From Dr. Tom Van Flandern

>>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 14:53:18 -0700 (PDT)
>>Subject: Re: Mars Photos From Dr. Tom Van Flandern

>>IMHO, these images are an embarrassment to the planetary SETI
>>community (such as it is). I've written extensively on the
>>"Crowned Face" and "tubes" (which aren't really tubes) on my
>>Mars anomaly website:

>>http://www.mactonnies.com/cydonia.html

>So what you are saying, Mac, is that no such data was received
>and made public by NASA?

Yes, it's NASA data. It's Van Flandern's interpretations that I
disagree with. See the following essay I wrote I wrote on May
5, 2001 and posted to my site on page 15:


Tom Van Flandern Loses Face at Press Conference by Mac Tonnies

This morning, astronomer and SPSR member Dr. Tom Van Flandern
addressed the Washington Press Club, intending to present the
strong evidence favoring the existence of extraterrestrial
artifacts on Mars. He failed - not for lack of evidence, but for
a curious need to embellish imaginary profiles on the planet's
surface.

In his slide presentation, available online as part of his
otherwise commendable Meta Research website, Van Flandern
presents wildly implausible "artistically reconstructed" images
showing what he perceives as a giant "bird" (which I still can't
seem to make out, even with the artistic enhancement_), a few
curved lines he construes as a megalithic portrait of a "child,"
and a credibility-straining "seahorse" sculpture created by
viewing portions of a landform in convenient isolation.

[image here]

Typical example of alleged "artifact" from Van Flandern's
presentation. Creatures and characters of all sorts can easily
be imagined on the Martian surface with the help of some
"highlighting," as this illustration demonstrates.

This unforgivable technique, which Van Flandern relies on again
and again during his presentation, is best compared to taking a
giant cookie-cutter to the Martian surface in such a way as to
produce any desired "anomaly". So there's no wonder Van Flandern
sees so many enigmatic shapes on Mars; armed with enough
perceptual cookie-cutters, it's easy enough to populate Mars
with just about anything.

Deer, complete with antlers? Van Flandern's got one (with the
dubious aid of an overlaid drawing).

Cleopatra, complete with headdress? She's there, too - albeit in
murky profile in need of some strategic digital retouching.

To Van Flandern's credit, he addresses the Face - but only in
relatively cursory detail, and completely ignoring the
confirming partial image taken in 2000, which clearly shows the
"eyeball" feature predicted by Vincent DiPietro as well as the
rectilinear "teardrop" and corner of the anatomically accurate
"mouth."

Van Flandern also explores the "tubes" with some success, making
a sound argument for a possible structural origin. He also looks
closely at the similar bright lines abundant in Cydonia, notably
on top of the Cliff and at the edge of the Main City Pyramid.
But for all of the genuine mysteries addressed, Van Flandern's
main concerns appear to be vague, improbable "faces" and
fanciful "animals" that have never had the luxury of having been
subjected to peer-reviewed scrutiny. And as he piles one
impossibly weak image on top of the next, it's made clear
exactly why fellow Cydonia researchers have never treated them
as anything but the amusing caricatures they are (if, of course,
they can see them in the first place).

[image here]

The justly scorned "Smiley Face" used endlessly by would-be
debunkers to explain the tendency to "see" human faces where
none exist. The "Smiley Face" bears no morphological resemblance
to the Cydonia "Face" and is irrelevant to investigating the
possibility of artificiality.

It was hoped by many that Van Flandern's high-visibility press
conference would pique the planetary science community's
interest in the prospect of discovering artifacts on Mars.
Instead, we're left with a pointless residue that recalls Mike
Malin's own "Smiley Face" crater, or the likeness of Kermit the
Frog seen in a wash of meteorite ejecta.

Fortunately, the Cydonia inquiry does not rely on the weight of
any one self-proclaimed authority. Researchers such as Lan
Fleming, Efrain Palermo, David Jinks, and Richard Hoagland -
whose insights I continue to value, even if I disagree with some
of his tenets--are actively shaping our perception of the Red
Planet and the surprises it may have in store for us.
Revelations will not take the form of press conferences - a
lesson learned from NASA's own politically motivated
"disclosures" of Mars data familiar to planetary anomalists for
years before becoming "official."

Accepting the reality and implications of extraterrestrial
intelligence, assuming its works are on Mars waiting for us to
explore and discover, will more likely be a quiet affair, and
the online "Cydonia underground" is driving this process in the
only way it can: from the inside-out.

-end-

http://www.mactonnies.com/cydonia.html







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 3

                  Re: Mars Photos From Dr. Tom Van Flandern

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 16:19:08 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 19:51:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Mars Photos From Dr. Tom Van Flandern


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 12:29:49 -0400
>Subject: Re: Mars Photos From Dr. Tom Van Flandern

<snip>

>>IMHO, these images are an embarrassment to the planetary SETI
>>community (such as it is). I've written extensively on the
>>"Crowned Face" and "tubes" (which aren't really tubes) on my
>>Mars anomaly website:

>>http://www.mactonnies.com/cydonia.html

>A BIG AMEN!, Mac. In my opinion, those who think those images
>reveal anything other than purely natural structures, live in a
>fantasy world of their own creation, encouraged by like-minded
>groupies.

I'm in the relatively unique position of totally supporting the
search for extraterrestrial structures on Mars and other
planetary bodies yet remaining critical of much of the
"evidence." As with the UFO controversy, there is an unfortunate
tendency for a camp of "true believers" to confront close-minded
pseudoskeptics.

Talk of "groupies" is worrying but probably unavoidable. The
central question is very simple: Can we use science (i.e.,
geology, archaeology, exobiology) to prove the existence of
extraterrestrial artifacts?

Personally, I think there is strong circumstantial evidence that
some objects on Mars are non-natural, including the infamous
Face.

I present what I think is a broad-spectrum treatment of the Mars
anomaly issue in my book "After the Martian Apocalypse" (Simon &
Schuster, early 2004). Until then, there's my website:

http://www.mactonnies.com/cydonia.html

Mac Tonnies






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 4

                  UC Berkeley-Led Team Probes for Martians

From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 20:49:49 -0300
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 07:09:12 -0400
Subject: UC Berkeley-Led Team Probes for Martians


Source: The Berkeley Daily Californian, CA

http://www.dailycal.org/article.asp?id=12091

July 3, 2003

A UC Berkeley-led team of researchers is out to discover if
Martians, long the little green men of science fiction movies,
ever once really existed.

The 10-person team has received a $1.23 million grant from NASA
to study the origin, evolution and future of life in the
universe.

The researchers are focusing their study on Mars because it is
the most accessible site in the solar system that could have
reasonably supported life, Jill Banfield, a UC Berkeley earth
and planetary science professor, said in a statement.

Five of the team's 10 members are UC Berkeley researchers.

The researchers will study the cold, dry deserts of Oregon and
Idaho, regions of the earth whose environments most closely
resemble Mars.

Some organisms in these environments live off inorganic
chemicals instead of photosynthesis, which could give
researchers clues as to how life on Mars is sustained.

"By understanding how certain microbes utilize iron and sulfur,
common elements in Martian geology, we can obtain clues as to
how life may have emerged and thrived on Mars," Banfield said.

The $1.23 million is for the first year of a five-year grant.






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 4

                  Re: Mars Photos From Dr. Tom Van Flandern

From: Betsy Sinkey <westoo@attbi.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 20:17:17 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 07:15:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Mars Photos From Dr. Tom Van Flandern


>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 16:19:08 -0700 (PDT)
>Subject: Re: Mars Photos From Dr. Tom Van Flandern

><snip>

>Talk of "groupies" is worrying but probably unavoidable. The
>central question is very simple: Can we use science (i.e.,
>geology, archaeology, exobiology) to prove the existence of
>extraterrestrial artifacts?

>Personally, I think there is strong circumstantial evidence that
>some objects on Mars are non-natural, including the infamous
>Face.

>I present what I think is a broad-spectrum treatment of the Mars
>anomaly issue in my book "After the Martian Apocalypse" (Simon &
>Schuster, early 2004). Until then, there's my website:

>http://www.mactonnies.com/cydonia.html


Mac Tonnies

You have made an excellent observation and pointed out the
selective exclusion of important scientific specialization
groups, most especially archeology and exobiology.

The mainstream scientific community has resigned itself to the
idea that Mars is and always was a dead planet and has drawn the
line there. This is an unfortunate conclusion, not to mention
their exclusion of other warranted streams of investigation.

I will be looking forward to the release of your book in 2004.

Regards

Betsy








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 4

                     It Does Not 'Rain Rocks' In Brazil

From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 22:38:19 -0300
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 07:25:29 -0400
Subject: It Does Not 'Rain Rocks' In Brazil


Dear Colleagues,

Please, be advised that it does _not_ rain rocks in Brazil.

The story of rocks falling from the sky during an abduction is
just one of many, many _fake_ stories fabricated by the biggest
Brazilian UFO hoaxer of all times.

Also, the rocks collected from Ms. Linda Howe have absolutely
ordinary, NATURAL ORIGIN, as they were several times examined by
geologists in Brazil. Plus, those rocks can ben EASILY FOUND in
almost all the hills of Serra de Maracaju, state of Mato Grosso
do Sul, where the hoaxer has his millionaire farm and where he
runs his obscure Project Gateway, a cult movement towards UFOs
where naive people are allowed to see "UFOs" and make contacts
with "aliens", if they PAY A VERY EXPENSIVE TICKET at the door.

Of course, those "UFOs" and "aliens" are as improbable as rocks
falling form sky...

The professor consulted by Ms. Howe to examine the rocks, who
concluded that they are extraordinary, is invited to visit the
hills and will certainly be surprised to see THOUSAND OF ROCKS
just exactly like the ones he was supplied with. Are aliens
making rock rains in Brazil? Hardly...

Please see details of this new amusing story at:

www.seattlechatclub.org/urandir.html
www.ufowatchdog.com/brazil.html

A. J. Gevaerd, editor
Brazilian UFO Magazine


-----

This info is cross-posted from another List and contains
interesting facts.

From: ranger116@webtv.net
To: ArtBell; babeinthebunker; DR_ET; Drudge; Majorstar; NIDS;
jr; UFOLAWYER1; Director; FreedomFighter37; AUFON_xpi@egroups;
illusions; truthamnestyreconciliation; Randiers; RandiRhodes;
SIOT; UFOPALS; UFOREPORTS@AOL.COM ; apometron; barbara; blue;
brumac; Drboylan; Frogina; campbell; james; mmz; mcf; Wizzard9;
RONCRAFT; shel7345; shakapnx; skywatch_discussion; smoser;
ufochaser777; UFOMiami; webmaster; wholistic707
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 11:50 PM
Subject: [SD] Linda Moulton Howe, Rocks from Brazil UFO abduction case

Scientific examination of the rocks that rained down on people
during the Corguinho Brazil UFO sighting and abduction case.

Earthfiles.com

Address:http://www.earthfiles.com/news/news.cfm?ID=550&category=Science


  ----------

http://www.earthfiles.com/news/news.cfm?ID=550&category=Science









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 4

                     'Mysterious' Rocks Common in Brazil

From: Charlette LeFevre <clefevre@oz.net>
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 23:57:15 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 07:50:11 -0400
Subject: 'Mysterious' Rocks Common in Brazil


According to Archaeologist Gilson Martins of the Federal
University of Matto Grasso, those 'mysterious' rocks Linda
Moulton Howe is currently reporting as "mysterious" on her
website are common to a specific area in Brazil. See full
statement from Istoe Magazine below*.

According to reports from Ufologists in Brazil, Urandir sells
these unusual rocks for as much as $50 each.

Verifiable as A.J. Gevaerd - Brazilian UFO Magazine Editor - has
shown in his presentations in documented statements and photos
by and of the contractors that gather them in cansisters for
Urandir to sell. Contractors even resort to using rototillers to
dig up more as they have exhausted surface supplies.

Unusual rocks but not Alien

These rocks, which have a high iron content, are likely volcanic
lava drops that hit water and cooled quickly, which explains
their shape and structure. Unusual but not extraterrestrial in
origin.

Has anyone bought these rocks?

Perhaps anyone wanting their money back should contact Linda
Moulton Howe via earthfiles.com as she is promoting them on her
business website as mysterious and "otherworldly" and hence
promoting their sale.

I'm sure as a responsible business and news reporter she will
gladly refund buyers.

____________


*"The rocks that Urandir presents as sent by extraterrestrials
are common in the immediacy of the mountain range of Maracaju,
whose more visible mount is of Is Sebastiao, neighbor to the
Vestibule [Project Portal]. Even so they have sufficiently
exotic format, these rocks have a natural geologic origin. They
are sandstone rocks with high degree of iron."

- Archaeologist Gilson Martins, of the Federal University of the
  Mato Grosso Istoe On Line Magazine

http://www.zaz.com.br/istoe/1583/brasil/1583ets.htm


Charlette LeFevre
Seattle UFO/Paranormal Group








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 4

                      Re: Speaking of 'Non-Disclosure'

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 02:04:29 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 07:56:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Speaking of 'Non-Disclosure'


>From: Colm Kelleher <nids@anv.net>
>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 15:45:42 -0700
>Subject: Re: Speaking of 'Non-Disclosure'

>>From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net>
>>Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 17:52:52 -0400
>>Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 18:17:48 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Speaking Of 'Non-Disclosure'

>>>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr>
>>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 15:51:46 +0200
>>>Subject: Re: Speaking Of 'Non-Disclosure'

<snip>

>>>I am surprised to learn that NIDS would have 16 implants in its
>>>possession.

>>>Where did you find that out?

>>>Gildas Bourdais

>>I first heard that from John Velez on a Strange Days... Indeed
>>broadcast, I'm guessing about a year ago? I wrote Dr. Colm
>>Kelleher and asked him the question soon afterward, and as I can
>>best remember got a kind of non-answer. (That PC is now dead so
>>I can't recover his reply.) However, Dr. Kelleher didn't deny he
>>had the implants.

>>Eleanor White

>>[See: http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/apr/m17-005.shtml
>>--ebk]


>To quickly clear up this issue.

>In 1996 NIDS conducted an analysis on "implants" from two
>individuals.

>The report has been continuously on the NIDS web site since
>1998:

>http://www.nidsci.org/articles/metal/metal.html

>After the analysis of the first two implants had been completed
>the NIDS science advisory board (SAB), see:

>http://www.nidsci.org/personnel.html

>strongly urged that NIDS cease analysis of any further
>"implants" on the grounds that the first two analyses had
>yielded nothing beyond normal, trivial, mundane data.

>The NIDS SAB stated that no evidence of anomalies had been found
>in these "implants".

>NIDS has never received "16 implants". After 1996, no further
>work was done by NIDS on "implants" for the reasons given.

>Colm A. Kelleher Ph.D

>Administrator

>NIDS


Hello Colm:

I'm glad you clarified the NIDS position on these matters.

As an aside, I have "cracked" the UFORC site (Largest UFO
Database in the World), without paying the $5 PayPal fee. I
didn't even ask their esteemed "Panel of UFO Experts" how to do
it.

Its the worst collection of junk imaginable. Many, or most,
pages are simply taken off the internet from various sites that
are otherwise free. There are many Canadian Crop Circle
newsletters for example. Here is only one:

http://www.uforc.com/database/page8.html

(I'll get back to Implants in a moment... chuckle!)

One page in Spanish looks like its taken out of a course catalog
for an engineering school in Latin America. It has absolutely
nothing to do with UFOs, but what the heck? Its a furrin'
language which looks spiffy:

http://www.uforc.com/database/page16.html

The "database" and "research" pages can be browsed up on Google
and click right in!  Here's some really neat "research":

http://www.uforc.com/research/page28.html

Masuya Chinari (Japan) has been spamming the UFO sites with his
Sun Wars stuff for months or years. It was so insane that months
ago, I put him in the Prize-winning Crackpots corner of this
links page of mine:

http://www.larryhatch.net/ULINKS2.html

Look to the lower right, and don't miss Time Cube as well.

Montgomery's UFORC Database pages can all be examined by simply
changing the number 28 in the URL above, to all numbers from 1
to about 68. Just type the numbers into your browser Location
(URL) line, leaving the rest of the address unchanged.

The first few are black screens. In that case, click the right
mouse button and hold it down. Drag across the page diagonally.
Voila'  The 'hidden' text appears. It was in reverse field,
black on black. [burp!]

Back to Implants: Here's the tale of one Paul Schroeder who had
implants removed from his scrotum and elsewhere, not to mention
"one major black unseen thread connected interdimensionally
from ones chest to an alien control panel."

http://www.uforc.com/database/page6.html

So, NIDS has pretty much dropped Implants studies?

I guess 'rods' are out of the question. The Rod chasers
seemingly refuse to use simple butterfly nets. They prefer
video-cam images.

I would like to know more about the story of the "16 recovered
implants". Not the implants themselves, but rather how the story
originated and developed. I'd like to learn the mechanics of it.
That might help us calibrate our filters.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 4

                       Watching The Skies Over Sudbury

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 08:03:09 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 08:03:09 -0400
Subject: Watching The Skies Over Sudbury




Source: Northern Life - Sudbury, Ontario

http://www.northernlife.ca/lifestyleArticle.asp?32id11-pn=&view=42376

July 03, 2003

Watching The Skies Over Sudbury
By Tracey Duguay

The truth is out there and Sudbury's self-proclaimed UFO
historian is determined to find it.

The subject of unidentified flying objects has intrigued Michel
Deschamps for most of his life; especially after a personal UFO
sighting he remembers when he was about nine years old.

It's looking for the answers to the age-old questions like "why
are they here" and "what do they want from us," that feeds
Deschamps' interest in UFOs and extraterrestials.

"The basic fascination is I've come to the realization that
we're being visited by something from someplace else."

Although he holds down a full-time job at Walmart, most of his
recreational time is spent researching the history of UFO
sightings in Sudbury and the surrounding communities.

In fact, in 1992, he started painstakingly reviewing every
edition of local newspapers from their first publication dates,
looking for articles on UFO sightings. It took him over two
years to complete his research and resulted in an impressive
collection of articles.

However, he doesn't limit his research to just local statistics
and reports, but also likes to keep current on sightings from
around the world.

"I'm trying to keep up with world events about this stuff, not
just local."

He admits he hasn't been as diligent in the sky-watching
department as he used to be and blames it on his passion for
watching the Space Channel on television.

"I haven't been sky watching at all for the last couple of
years," Deschamps says. "I haven't had the energy or desire to
go out there."

Ironically, he says watching this particular channel is sort of
a "break from reality" from his own life, which he describes at
times as "stranger" than some of the programs he follows.

He's thinking about starting a sky-watchers group whereby people
interested in UFOs can exchange phone numbers and keep each
informed about recent sightings.

Deschamps can compare the time and details of the sighting to
air traffic or planetary movement in the region to determine if
it indeed was a UFO.

"I've got astronomy programs on my computer and I can check
right away to see if it was a planet or a star."

He says UFOs move quicker than objects like planes or
helicopters. They can also take off and stop "on a dime," unlike
most aircraft.

"I know the difference between a UFO and something "man-
made"... I've seen planes, helicopters and satellites, and
these things [UFOs] don't behave at all like any of those
things... there's a distinct difference."

The easiest way to figure out if a person has really had a close
encounter of the extraterrestial kind is by their reaction.
Deschamps says people intuitively can feel it when they see
something out of the ordinary. The hair stands up on the back of
their necks and their eyes get kind of a "glazed over" look when
they recall their experience.

"Once you see something, you're convinced and that changes
people for life," he says. "Even if the sighting is 50 years
ago, they'll remember it like it was yesterday."

While Deschamps believes in some cases of alien abductions, he
doesn't thinks most cases are reliable because the physical
evidence just isn't there to support it.

It makes perfect sense to him, however, that abductions happen
and he compares it to current space exploration. For example,
when astronauts visit Mars and other planets, they bring back
samples of dirt and other materials to analyze. So, according to
Deschamps, it only makes sense when alternate life forms visit
Earth, they occasionally bring something back with them as well,
namely people, animals or other objects.

The whole generation abduction theory puzzles him though.

"I just can't understand why they're taking the same people over
and over again."

Deschamps says the focus on UFO research is switching to more
physical evidence, like landing sites, rather than abduction or
humanoid stories.

Since credibility is a big issue in matters relating to UFO
experiences or research, physical evidence is more concrete or
believable than first-hand accounts.

The skepticism that exists towards this subject and the people
who are believers is disheartening to Deschamps. He occasionally
thinks about giving up, since it's hard to keep the faith in the
face of such disbelief.

Television shows like the X-Files (now cancelled) did a lot to
raise the profile about possible visits from beings from space
and the potential for government cover-ups.

He talks about rumours the technology used in Stealth planes,
satellites and transmitters came from the sites of crashed UFOs.

Deschamps, who says he doesn't scare easily, was worried a few
times when unexplained events happened to him in the throes of a
UFO sighting.

"When I had trouble with the phones, I got scared. I though my
phone was being tapped. On four different occasions in the early
90s, I was talking to somebody about UFO's on the phone and my
phone went dead mid-sentence. No explanation."

One gets the sense that no matter how discouraged or scared
Deschamps gets, he'll keep digging through newspapers, websites
and watching the skies until he has the answers to the age-old
questions that have always plagued him.

Anyone interested in talking about UFOs or reporting sightings
can call Michel Deschamps at 670-2759 or e-mail him at
ufoman@ican.net.


For additional information on UFO's, visit these websites:

http://www.angelfire.com/mo/cptr/main.html
http://www.ufobc.ca/
http://virtuallystrange.net/







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 4

                      Re: Speaking of 'Non-Disclosure'

From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net>
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 07:18:39 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 10:45:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Speaking of 'Non-Disclosure'


>From: Colm Kelleher <nids@anv.net>
>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 15:45:42 -0700
>Subject: Re: Speaking of 'Non-Disclosure'

<snip>

>To quickly clear up this issue.

>In 1996 NIDS conducted an analysis on "implants" from two
>individuals.

>The report has been continuously on the NIDS web site since
>1998:

>http://www.nidsci.org/articles/metal/metal.html

>After the analysis of the first two implants had been completed
>the NIDS science advisory board (SAB), see:

>http://www.nidsci.org/personnel.html

>strongly urged that NIDS cease analysis of any further
>"implants" on the grounds that the first two analyses had
>yielded nothing beyond normal, trivial, mundane data.

>The NIDS SAB stated that no evidence of anomalies had been found
>in these "implants".

>NIDS has never received "16 implants". After 1996, no further
>ork was done by NIDS on "implants" for the reasons given.

>Colm A. Kelleher Ph.D

Thank you, Dr. Kelleher, for your update. Here is the link to a
September 2002 List-Post

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/sep/m10-008.shtml

from Gildas Bourdais, who reports some detailed knowledge of at
least ten implants, along with other information about the
involvement of Dr. Leir and NIDS.

Are there any plans to display photos and NIDS' analyses of
these other implants? The public is undoubtedly hungry to
at least see photos of all implants that are available, even if
the time to analyze them is not currently available.


Eleanor White







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 4

                  Re: Mars Photos From Dr. Tom Van Flandern

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 08:57:30 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 10:55:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Mars Photos From Dr. Tom Van Flandern


>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 16:19:08 -0700 (PDT)
>Subject: Re: Mars Photos From Dr. Tom Van Flandern

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 12:29:49 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Mars Photos From Dr. Tom Van Flandern

<snip>

>Personally, I think there is strong circumstantial evidence that
>some objects on Mars are non-natural, including the infamous
>Face.

I think you could be right (about intelligent construction) in
that structure, but I doubt it is a deliberate face. The human
mind is very creative.

>I present what I think is a broad-spectrum treatment of the Mars
>anomaly issue in my book "After the Martian Apocalypse" (Simon &
>Schuster, early 2004). Until then, there's my website:

I can hardly wait to read it, because I'm confident it will be
thoughtful and fascinating.

Ray Stanford

"You know my method.  It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 4

                Re: UC Berkeley-Led Team Probes For Martians

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@charter.net>
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 07:17:57 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 11:05:47 -0400
Subject: Re: UC Berkeley-Led Team Probes For Martians


>From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
>To: ufo UpDates -Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 20:49:49 -0300
>Subject: UC Berkeley-Led Team Probes For Martians

>Source: The Berkeley Daily Californian, CA

>http://www.dailycal.org/article.asp?id=12091

>July 3, 2003

>A UC Berkeley-led team of researchers is out to discover if
>Martians, long the little green men of science fiction movies,
>ever once really existed.
>Snip<

>The researchers are focusing their study on Mars because it is
>the most accessible site in the solar system that could have
>reasonably supported life, Jill Banfield, a UC Berkeley earth
>and planetary science professor, said in a statement.

>Five of the team's 10 members are UC Berkeley researchers.

>The researchers will study the cold, dry deserts of Oregon and
>Idaho, regions of the earth whose environments most closely
>resemble Mars.

<snip>

When I was working on my degree in Biology (not that it did me
any good), I spent a _lot_ of time in the high Oregon
desert. Notably the Alvord/Steens Mountain area. When I saw the
Mars Rover pictures I was more than slightly surprised. Yes, the
Steens look like Mars. Take a Look.

http://www.alvordinn.com/Area.htm

There are some amazing hot springs and lakes in the "High
Lonse" of the Steens of Oregon. Alvord Lake is one, there is the
Alvord Chub - a fish that lives in an envrionment that is several
orders more hostile than the Great Salt Lake.

>Some organisms in these environments live off inorganic
>chemicals instead of photosynthesis, which could give
>researchers clues as to how life on Mars is sustained.

>"By understanding how certain microbes utilize iron and sulfur,
>common elements in Martian geology, we can obtain clues as to
>how life may have emerged and thrived on Mars," Banfield said.

Of course, we are not looking for the Olympus Mons Chub, a
bacterium would, be a whole lot less threatening than, say a
fish, to the Fundementalist Darwinist. I've had many
conversations about this with my colleages in the hot springs at
the foot of the Steens. I was considered a little strange as I
do know, there is something more than just the 'blind
watchmaker.'


GT McCoy

Who, by the way had the usual unimpressive "lights in the sky"
July 3rd sighting, in Coos Bay Oregon - for the fourth time.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 4

                   Re: 'Mysterious' Rocks Common In Brazil

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 10:23:37 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 11:22:39 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Mysterious' Rocks Common In Brazil


>From: Charlette LeFevre <clefevre@oz.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 23:57:15 -0700
>Subject: 'Mysterious' Rocks Common In Brazil

>According to Archaeologist Gilson Martins of the Federal
>University of Matto Grasso, those 'mysterious' rocks Linda
>Moulton Howe is currently reporting as "mysterious" on her
>website are common to a specific area in Brazil. See full
>statement from Istoe Magazine below*.

>According to reports from Ufologists in Brazil, Urandir sells
>these unusual rocks for as much as $50 each.

>Verifiable as A.J. Gevaerd - Brazilian UFO Magazine Editor - has
>shown in his presentations in documented statements and photos
>by and of the contractors that gather them in cansisters for
>Urandir to sell. Contractors even resort to using rototillers to
>dig up more as they have exhausted surface supplies.

>Unusual rocks but not Alien

>These rocks, which have a high iron content, are likely volcanic
>lava drops that hit water and cooled quickly, which explains
>their shape and structure.

They are of terrestrial origin but are definitely not of
volcanic origin, as hypothesized or otherwise.

On Linda's own website, one can see the thin sedimentary layers
indicating slow deposition over a long period, in water. Over
extended periods, the sand grains are 'glued' together both by
natural silica deposition and by iron oxide - in this case,
evidently, the in-water excretion of ferrophagic (iron eating)
bacteria.

As the colony of ferrophagic bacteria grows (sometimes around a
piece of organic debris, but potentially around almost
anything), water current 'eddies' create low-level circulation
around the colony, creating an expanding, circular cavity into
which it continues to grow as silica (both colloidially
deposited and as sand grains, from above) and iron build
peripherally, from above (hence, the layering).

In that way, across time there is formed a sometimes very UFO-
shaped (bi-convex disc, or even spherical) concretion of purely
terrestrial origin. This can occur anywhere in the world where
there is the right water chemistry, temperature range, and
bacterial environment. The process is somewhat more complex than
the basics explained here, but I suspect this is about all list
readers will want or need.

The Brazilian stones are, in fact, quite similar to some of the
concretions from the USA that are sold as "Boji stones" at
mineral, gem, and fossil shows all over the USA. Most of them
are formed in the way described.

A geologist may understand very little about such petrogenesis,
dealing as they generally do with only much larger scale
processes and rock masses. On the other hand, such is more the
province of specialists in petrology, per se, although many
petrologists deal almost exclusively with larger scale rock
masses, their formation processes, and potential economic value.

I hope the Brazilian UFO hoax gets thoroughly thrashed at the
MUFON conference this weekend. If not, Ufology is in even sadder
shape than I think it to be. That 'noise' is not part of the UFO
'signal', and I hope those of you in attendance will clearly
declare so.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of trifles." --
Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 4

                  Re: Mars Photos From Dr. Tom Van Flandern

From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net>
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 10:28:50 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 11:24:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Mars Photos From Dr. Tom Van Flandern


>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 16:03:20 -0700 (PDT)
>Subject: Re: Mars Photos From Dr. Tom Van Flandern

<snip>

>This morning, astronomer and SPSR member Dr. Tom Van Flandern
>addressed the Washington Press Club, intending to present the
>strong evidence favoring the existence of extraterrestrial
>artifacts on Mars. He failed - not for lack of evidence, but for
>a curious need to embellish imaginary profiles on the planet's
>surface.

>In his slide presentation, available online as part of his
>otherwise commendable Meta Research website, Van Flandern
>presents wildly implausible "artistically reconstructed" images
>showing what he perceives as a giant "bird" (which I still can't
>seem to make out, even with the artistic enhancement_), a few
>curved lines he construes as a megalithic portrait of a "child,"
>and a credibility-straining "seahorse" sculpture created by
>viewing portions of a landform in convenient isolation.

Well, given that we have a number of these symbolic drawings,
some huge as on the Nazca plain, here on Earth, I'm not sure why
someone attempting to find similar figures in NASA's Mars images
should be labelled 'an embarassment'.

I'm no 'true believer' or 'groupie', by the way. I take the
stiffest issue with those who label anyone interested in
interpretations of other-worldly photos as such. I am 'open
minded', and I also have beliefs. I am interested in the Mars
photos and I am willing to look at interpretations of such.
Then, I make up my own mind.

Having seen a number of the un-doctored versions, I do believe
Mars has plenty of artificial structures. There is no shame
attached to stating that.

Having beliefs does _not_ mean I or anyone else can't
objectively evaluate evidence. Someone with beliefs _can_
objectively evaluate evidence, in spite of rhetoric to the
contrary. At 62, I have lived long enough and dealt with enough
people in enough situations to know that for certain.


Eleanor White








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 4

                      Re: Speaking Of 'Non-Disclosure'

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 11:07:30 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 12:52:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Speaking Of 'Non-Disclosure'


>From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 17:52:52 -0400
>Subject: Re: Speaking Of 'Non-Disclosure'

>>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 15:51:46 +0200
>>Subject: Re: Speaking Of 'Non-Disclosure'

><snip>

>>To Eleanor and the List,

>>Thank you for this information.

>>I am surprised to learn that NIDS would have 16 implants in its
>>possession.

>>Where did you find that out?

>>Gildas Bourdais

>I first heard that from John Velez on a Strange Days... Indeed
>broadcast, I'm guessing about a year ago? I wrote Dr. Colm
>Kelleher and asked him the question soon afterward, and as I can
>best remember got a kind of non-answer. (That PC is now dead so
>I can't recover his reply.) However, Dr. Kelleher didn't deny he
>had the implants.

>Eleanor White

>[See: http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/apr/m17-005.shtml
>--ebk]

Hello Gildas, Eleanor, All,

Eleanor has misquoted me. If memory serves, I was discussing, on
'Strange Days... Indeed', the fifteen or sixteen alleged
'Implants' that Roger Lier had recovered surgically since 1995/6
with EBK. When asked about the whereabouts of these recovered
objects I said that they 'probably' ended up at NIDS - because
of Lier's existing connection to Bigelow/NIDS. I don't know 'for
sure' that they in fact ended up there.

I hope this clears up any confusion that Eleanor's recollection
of my statements may have created. My apologies to Colm Kelleher
in case he's been getting mail asking about these recovered
implants.

I _would_ however like to know what Roger Lier did with those
recovered objects. Were they analyzed? If so, by who? Was it
performed by an independent lab? Or by his then partner, Derrel
Simms' Sabre Enterprises? What, if anything, was the result of
the analysis?

I'm fairly certain that if they had recovered a genuine extra-
terrestrial object that we all would have heard about it by
now.


Regards to all,

John Velez






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 4

                  UFORC [was: Speaking of 'Non-Disclosure']

From: Paul Anderson <psa@cccrn.ca>
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 09:05:41 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 14:26:30 -0400
Subject: UFORC [was: Speaking of 'Non-Disclosure']


>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 02:04:29 -0700
>Subject: Re: Speaking of 'Non-Disclosure'

<snip>

>Its the worst collection of junk imaginable. Many, or most,
>pages are simply taken off the internet from various sites that
>are otherwise free. There are many Canadian Crop Circle
>newsletters for example. Here is only one:

>http://www.uforc.com/database/page8.html

>(I'll get back to Implants in a moment... chuckle!)

<snip>

Larry,

Is there a reason for making a point about this? Re the link to
that one news update, that was one "phenomenon" that I had
briefly taken the time to look into, out of personal curiousity.
I soon came to the conclusion there was nothing really to it, as
did Colin Andrews at the time and others. We simply took the
time to make some enquiries.

The fact that our CCCRN News newsletters were reprinted on the
UFORC site has nothing to do with me; when you have  that kind
of e-mail service, it is bound to get redistributed by a lot of
people that you will never even know of. I know it's happened
before. Only a couple times I've had to ask it to be stopped as
because occassionally some people were receiving forwarded
copies of it who hadn't subscribed and thought it was coming
from me and it wasn't.

If this is part of what you refer to as "junk" (I hope not...)
than that shows that you know little about our work here.
Personally I am known as perhaps being more conservative in this
"field" than a lot of other crop circle researchers out there, I
take a cautious approach, not making any wild claims and the
like. We continue to work closely with the BLT Research Team /
Nancy Talbott and have from the beginning (since 1995). We are
the only such organization in this country also, studying this
phenomenon primarily, but do also work with other respected
groups such as MUFON, UFOBC, AUFOSG, UFOROM, etc. Our focus is
on the field research in the prairies each summer/fall. I would
suggest looking through the CCCRN web site (which has always
been free to access) and seeing some of this. Again, my personal
approach is conservative, but while also trying to speak on some
of the stranger aspects of this phenomenon, from personal
experience on many occassions now, not always an easy balance,
that between science and "paranormal" (which is a term I don't
even like much). We also have now a growing catalogue of circle
reports going back as far as 1925 that we currently know of,
which comes from research done, talking to farmers, etc. The
findings so far are similar to those in other countries by other
research groups of almost entirely simple circles and rings pre-
 1980s. In more recent years, I've taken a much stronger
interest in simpler formations again, as there are interesting
patterns there in type, distribution, etc. over the years which
are important I think, worth paying attention to. Our research
is serious, that is my basic point.

Just to clarify, we have no direct association with UFORC and I
don't even know much about them, but please do not dump on the
work of some others that you may know little about simply
because some of their material may have been re-posted there, an
unfair swipe in my opinion. If that was not your intention, then
my apologies.

I did note though that Mr. Montgomery bills himself as the
world's leading UFO authority... news to me...

Paul











   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 4

                        Re: A Very Ambitious Project

From: Daniel Guenther <daniel_g@t-online.de>
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 20:19:11 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 14:44:39 -0400
Subject: Re: A Very Ambitious Project


>From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 13:49:34 -0500
>Subject: A Very Ambitious Project

>I want to introduce the List to an extremely ambitious project
>called "RR0-IS". I first heard about it from Jerome Beau, one of
>the project managers, via my site's feedback form.

I suspect feedback concerning this project was not too great
unfortunately, at least there was none on this List.

I, for myself speaking, am greatly interested in collecting UFO
data in digital form.

First of all I would suggest a kind of databse with all online
documents from sites like Jan Aldrich's Project 1947, Dale
Goudie's www.cufon.org and others.

No copies of it, just references. It should also be noted whether
a document is just a pdf-file with scanned images or a text file
which can be searched.

Another important step may be to organize the process of putting
scanned images from newspaper clipping or FOIA documents into
written form.

Someone would have to type it because many 'sources' are poor
quality (I of course would volunteer - among others I hope - to
do it - I've already done that just check the links).

Brad Sparks also released his new Version 1.6 ;-) of his
'Project Blue Book Unknowns' at www.nidsci.org (NIDS). This
could be a GOOD starting point to find out which FOIA Documents
could be included in a database, next.

So all of you just come a bit closer to another and help us to
build up an open database of UFO info!


P.S.

RR0 - Information System
http://rr0.sourceforge.net

RR0 - static ufological website that launched the RR0-IS
      project - 'UFO data for french-reading people'
http://rr0.free.fr


Links - FOIA documents (I hope this is not too hard to edit for
EBK ;-)

FBI
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=37B70B93.224C0B72%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3730B639.EEE554F3%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=376131EA.E4EA390F%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=37AF44EB.C0CF1B0B%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=37F3A1B3.DC3D0677%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=38208E0D.7657814D%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=38403AF7.46F69574%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=38403B3A.8B2907D1%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=38820207.39734C90%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=38820233.22267C7A%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=38820290.9F542524%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=38820F20.E1D1F061%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=388B5DE3.F5B1D998%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=38A5A268.66387F6D%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=38AB336B.292356F6%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=38C579D2.499B0D72%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=38CC0108.E2A6AEF%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=39310078.AD4F57E3%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=393110F6.2205A659%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=394B6502.46A9EAA3%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=397A1FD3.58FEEEE3%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=39DBAD1E.60F5D1A2%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3A8AD170.9089EB73%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3A8AD1A7.39684012%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3A8B0C9F.5F154372%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3A8B0CCB.C70EF3D2%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3A8B0CEE.D6440C6A%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3AAE1A10.7F935228%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3B28C5A2.F3A63822%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3B3F8726.4949A49E%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3B7DA12C.B792538C%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3B7E8B58.ECDF937B%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3B8B7BCF.6F5D40D1%40t-online.de




DIA
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=385AA2E3.DF7C6362%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=385AC408.3850604A%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=38CD6A00.24917B6C%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3B3CF902.EA4BF6B1%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3BE8370A.48B2FC6B%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3BEAFB13.1E835C26%40t-online.de



NSA
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3832F991.BD989CDD%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3B7D750B.1149B145%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3B7D7537.789301DA%40t-online.de



Air Force
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=394CF2B8.CAD80474%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3968CE0E.F542AE25%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=397DE403.C207D83%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=39849874.FD83EBC2%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=39955086.FF308DD1%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3995517F.D35C3AFC%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=39B1654A.C05257FE%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=39DBADF2.8D32878%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3A1FE759.54C28033%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3A5DC8D7.3EFD40C8%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3AA4092D.F28D7623%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3AAD1136.11C87AA0%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3AAE19A2.8CC81FDB%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3AC9187F.34BBDF8B%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3ACF921C.59D89808%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3B3CF8AF.E550113%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3B7D772A.54B6866F%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3B7D9EE1.CA1A9C14%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3BA69EB1.310AE255%40t-online.de




CIA
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3A805ADE.5AE65DB3%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3A8AD126.299F006D%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3A8B23D9.DEA0A526%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3AAD1111.BCE7A10C%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3B3CF8DC.AF688898%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3B3CF942.94464311%40t-online.de
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3B83DC45.8E038141%40t-online.de


Daniel G.

--
Just the Cases - UFO sightings database
http://cs.tu-berlin.de/~thomasg/ufodb.htm








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 4

                      Re: Speaking of 'Non-Disclosure'

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 12:00:58 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 14:47:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Speaking of 'Non-Disclosure'


>From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 07:18:39 -0400
>Subject: Re: Speaking of 'Non-Disclosure'

>>From: Colm Kelleher <nids@anv.net>
>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 15:45:42 -0700
>>Subject: Re: Speaking of 'Non-Disclosure'

<snip>

>>In 1996 NIDS conducted an analysis on "implants" from two
>>individuals.

>>The report has been continuously on the NIDS web site since
>>1998:

>>http://www.nidsci.org/articles/metal/metal.html

>>After the analysis of the first two implants had been completed
>>the NIDS science advisory board (SAB), see:

>>http://www.nidsci.org/personnel.html


>Thank you, Dr. Kelleher, for your update. Here is the link to a
>September 2002 List-Post

>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/sep/m10-008.shtml

>from Gildas Bourdais, who reports some detailed knowledge of at
>least ten implants, along with other information about the
>involvement of Dr. Leir and NIDS.

>Are there any plans to display photos and NIDS' analyses of
>these other implants? The public is undoubtedly hungry to
>at least see photos of all implants that are available, even if
>the time to analyze them is not currently available.

Eleanor-

I think Colm answered that question, and the implication is that
someone is sitting on research that they refuse to share. In
fact, the NIDS web site is a wealth of good reports and valuable
research data.

As I read the post, it seems that Gildas also speaks of only two
implant cases that NIDS is directly involved in:

====begin=====

The implants

Two series of tests have been performed in 1998 under the
direction of NIDS, more precisely of Colonel John Alexander, at
the Los Alamos National Laboratories, and at New Mexico Tech. In
his book, his articles and conferences, Roger Leir mentions
studies made in other laboratories, but these have not been
published yet.

We first have the results of the analysis done at New Mexico
Tech in 1996, paid by NIDS and published on its web site, at:

http://www.nidsci.org/

In addition to this document, we have the 'letter of opinion' of
the metallurgic engineer who did the tests, Mr Paul A. Fuierer.
It is not on the NIDS site, but it is reproduced by Dr Roger
Leir in his book, with his comments, and on his own web site,
at:

http://alienscalpel.com/NMTech-opinion.htm

It is also on the web site of the Abduction Information Centre
(AIC) managed by John Velez, on which we have in addition some
critical comments on the New Mexico Tech Analysis, at:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/aic/

As for the analyses done at Los Alamos, it seems that they are
presented, rather briefly, and only in the book of Dr Leir,
which he published on his own initiative. It seems important to
repeat here that, in the initial agreement between NIDS and the
Leir-Sims team, it was understood that NIDS would publish a
scientific article (according to Leir in his book). But instead
of that, in 1996 they pushed Leir to publish rapidly an article
in the MUFON UFO Journal (see p 175 of the book). Probably, this
did not help to achieve the goal of obtaining a scientific
publication.

=====end=======

Obviously, we have scientists stating their opinions as to the
value of this data, and without clear consensus as to some
anomalous quality of the material, there's little reason to
pursue a scientific journal article (IMO). Skeptics have enough
inconsistencies to point to without our help and encouragement.

My two-cents.

Steve








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 4

                        Hello, E.T.! Roswell Calling!

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 14:56:45 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 14:56:45 -0400
Subject: Hello, E.T.! Roswell Calling!




Source: San Francisco Chronicle

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2003/07/03/state1917ED
T7029.DTL


Hello, E.T.! Roswell Calling!

July 3, 2003

Leslie Hoffman
Associated Press Writer

ALBUQUERQUE, N.M.(AP) - Will E.T. phone from home?

A Houston company hopes so. This weekend, officials with Team
Encounter plan to beam into space what they claim is the most
powerful greeting ever sent from Earth, trying to reach out and
touch someone - or something.

Team Encounter will place its "cosmic call" Saturday to possible
extraterrestrial neighbors using a 230-foot diameter radio
astronomy dish in Evpatoriya, Ukraine, and a temporary mission
control set up at the International UFO Museum and Research
Center in Roswell, N.M.

The message will be a digital mixed bag: text, photos, and audio
and video clips from paying customers and school kids all over
the world. The intended targets are five stars deemed reasonable
candidates for harboring life-supporting planets.

The message doesn't lack for it own star power, featuring an
introduction by newsman Hugh Downs, a greeting from Sally Ride,
America's first woman in space, and a music clip from rocker
David Bowie.

"We've gotten everything from jokes to great musical scores,"
said Charles Chafer, president of Team Encounter. "We got one
drawing of a kid's Nintendo because he wanted ET to know how
kids play."

The company, which seeks to be the world leader in public space
missions, made a scaled-down call to the cosmos in 1999. Chafer
said the transmissions are efforts to reach out and "to join the
galactic community."

Choosing Roswell as the place for mission control this year was
obvious. The southeastern New Mexico community has become a UFO
Mecca since the purported 1947 crash-landing of a suspected
alien spacecraft on a local farm.

At 5 p.m. Saturday, Team Encounter officials will send a message
from the Roswell museum to the Ukrainian site, telling
scientists to begin the transmission, which will take about 15
hours to send.

The cosmic call will be a featured event at Roswell's UFO
festival this weekend - an event that draws thousands of true
believers and curious onlookers every year.

But sponsors don't expect a response - if there is one --
 anytime soon. The message will take two years to reach the
nearest star, and 14 years to reach the furthest, Chafer said.
He expects the soonest an answer might arrive would be five
years.

"We'll sit here by the phones," he said. "I think if a response
comes in, we'll know it."


Team Encounter: http://www.teamencounter.com


[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 4

                          Space Aliens? In Solano?

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 15:00:06 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 15:00:06 -0400
Subject: Space Aliens? In Solano?




Source: San Francisco Chronicle

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2003/07/03/MN250605.DTL

July 3, 2003

Space Aliens? In Solano?

The mystic set comes 'round to see crop circles, feel the
healing energy

True believers, visionaries, psychics and people in purple robes
lay down Wednesday in the middle of a Solano County wheat field
where vortexes were converging and all things were possible.

"I feel like I'm melting right into the earth," said Lily Kyle.
"It's intense. There's a coalescence, no doubt about it."

Kyle was among hundreds of folks who have come to the field at
the junction of Suisun Valley Road and Rockville Road, about
four miles west of Fairfield. It was there, on Saturday morning,
that a half-dozen crop circles were discovered in the waist-high
stalks of grain.

The circles, measuring up to 50 yards across, are either a sure
sign that alien spaceships zipped into town or a testament to
what a couple of tanked-up pranksters can do in the dead of
night with a piece of rope and a few strips of wood.

Kyle must be included among those who believe in the first
possibility. She had come from Ukiah to plop herself down on the
ground under the noon sun and see if the circles' power could
bring relief to her bad back.

"I think it's helping," she said. "I do feel more relaxed."

Also feeling more relaxed was Sylvia Keita, a journeyman psychic
from the Berkeley Psychic Institute, who brought her mother and
her 12-year-old daughter to the wheat field.

"I can feel the healing energy," she said.

"It's real," said her mom, Michelle.

"I think it's making my asthma better," said her daughter,
Danielle.


Kinetic Reaction

Dozens of people walked up and down the wheat field, snapping
pictures, lying in the crushed stalks, taking measurements,
dancing, breathing deeply, humming and waving their arms to the
heavens. Some snatched up handfuls of the crushed wheat and said
they would take them home and either eat them, plant them in
their gardens or sprinkle them on their ailing body parts.

"I feel vacillations," said Connie Pearson, who came from New
Orleans. "Low vibrations. I feel reality, which is a function of
agreement. It's very exciting to be here."

Crop circles began showing up in English fields about 30 years
ago. Most authorities say they are the work of scamps -- one
scamp stands in the center of a circle, holding one end of a
rope, and others walk around him, holding the other end to keep
the circle round and dragging boards to flatten the plants.

But crop circles also have spawned a subspecies within the
psychic commonwealth. Books have been written. Carolyn North,
who dropped by the wheat field, has written two books herself.
Crop circles, she said, are "authentic happenings" and "one of
the genuine mysteries of our time."

She also said she could feel a cosmic power after pacing in the
circle for about a minute.

"The energy is coming up toward my throat," she said. "I feel a
sense of calm and of reassurance."


Late-Night Visitation

Also hanging around the wheat field was 12-year-old Pat
Kavanagh, who lives with his family in a two-story house
directly across Suisun Valley Road. He said his big brother,
Charles, told him that something besides aliens was involved.

"He was driving home from work late Friday night," Pat said,
"and the next morning, he told me that he had seen a large
spotlight, like a motorcycle light, in the middle of the field.
No flying saucers or spaceships."

The crop circles have spawned a miniature boom among the nearby
fruit stands and restaurants. Rubberneckers paused to load up on
strawberries and other goodies.

Farmer Larry Balestra, the owner of the wheat field, said he
discovered the circles on Saturday morning and immediately
concluded they were the work of late-night pranksters. He said
he is growing weary of neighbors calling him "the chosen one."
And he figures the stunt cost him about $500, the value of the
crushed wheat.

"Some people," he said, "have too much time on their hands."

E-mail Steve Rubenstein at srubenstein@sfchronicle.com.

[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 4

                 Roswell Awaits Thousands Of 'Disc' Jockeys

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 15:08:42 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 15:08:42 -0400
Subject: Roswell Awaits Thousands Of 'Disc' Jockeys




Source: El Paso Times

http://www.borderlandnews.com/stories/borderland/20030703-132023.shtml

July 3, 2003

Roswell Awaits Thousands Of 'Disc' Jockeys For UFO Festival

Erica Molina
El Paso Times

ROSWELL -- A city famous for what might have happened one summer
night 56 years ago will celebrate the incident this weekend when
thousands of visitors turn out for its 2003 Roswell UFO
Festival.

"We've become a tourist attraction by chance, not by design,"
said Julie Schuster, executive director of the UFO Museum and
Research Center in Roswell.

A flying disc reportedly crashed in the desert near Roswell
around July 4, 1947. Newspapers across the country soon reported
that Roswell Army Air Force Base released word of a captured
flying saucer. The base soon amended its statement, saying the
item was actually a weather balloon.

But the explanation has not satisfied the many who believe an
unidentified flying object did crash near the New Mexico city,
and the curious have flocked to Roswell since then.

"I'm not limiting myself," said Northport, Ala., resident Blake
Harbin, who visited Roswell's UFO Museum on June 30.

The festival, in its ninth year, promises to be bigger than
ever, and has made the move to the Eastern New Mexico State
Fairgrounds to accommodate the thousands interested in aliens.

"It's the mystery of it all," festival director Carl Lucas said.
"Something happened here and nobody is really sure what it was.
We'll present the facts for people to decide for themselves."

These facts, as well as the more serious and scientific part of
the festival, will be presented at the UFO Museum.

"We're trying to get people thinking," Schuster said. "We
provide information relating to the Roswell incident and other
UFO phenomena around the world."

Presenters scheduled at the museum include UFO investigator and
researcher Derrel Sims; actor Roy Thinnes; archaeologist William
Doleman; and Roswell investigator, researcher and author Don
Schmitt.

But perhaps the biggest new draw is the first Merle Haggard UFO
Music Festival on Saturday featuring Marty Stewart and Pam
Tillis.

Erica Molina may be reached at emolina@elpasotimes.com
[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 4

                           Larry King Talks Aliens

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 15:13:22 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 15:13:22 -0400
Subject: Larry King Talks Aliens




Source: Roswell Daily Record

http://www.roswell-record.com/archives/070203/news05.html

07-02-03

Larry King Talks Aliens

Matt Ward
Record Staff Writer

It is a titillating mystery.

A story so fascinating that if it's ever proven true, it could
shake the very foundation of modern civilization.

Our thoughts about religion, science, medicine, philosophy,
history, even energy, could be transformed by the realization of
one mere fact _ this planet is not unique, we are not alone in
the universe.

The skeptics want hard proof, the believers say they only have
to look toward the sky. Surely, of those trillions of sparkling
lights in the night, at least one biological entity exists with
the capacity for intelligence.

The Cable News Network's Larry King Live featured a discussion
focused on the Roswell Incident Tuesday night about the
possibility of life on other planets, in particular the ones who
decided one July day in 1947 to crash land their lightweight
saucer onto a Chaves County ranch.

A parade of figures from that era, or their children, were
featured in the broadcast. Callers were invited to dial up their
opinions, King the ever-gracious, but curt moderator.

A consensus was reached by all involved, except King, that
something big happened at a ranch not too far from here 56 years
ago _ and they claim the government covered it up, fearing
exposing the truth would be too dangerous.

Today, Roswell banks its tourism dollars on the popularity of
the annual UFO Festival. The International UFO Museum attracted
205,000 people alone last year. Hotels are popping up like
ground squirrels out of the desert floor. And new documentaries,
books and articles are produced about the incident every year,
mentioning this dusty town by name multiple times.

Tuesday's broadcast featured not only a series of tough King-
questions but footage from documentaries, pictures of Roswell
from that long-gone era and footage of high-ranking military
officials denying anything serious happened here.

Walter Haut, Glenn Dennis, Dr. Jesse Marcel Jr., Nancy Johnston
and Julie Shuster represent just a handful of people with local
connections who swear something happened here, either UFO-
related or possibly some military, Cold-War incident that will
remain classified for national security reasons.

A smattering of their comments follow.

"I believe personally that we had in our possession a UFO,"
Haut, credited with making the incident public for the first
time, said. "People on the base knew what was going on inside
that craft."

Dennis, a Ballard Funeral Home employee in 1947, is often
mentioned in books as the man the military called about
procuring child-sized coffins, ostensibly to transport the tiny
remains of extraterrestrials.

"I agree with him," he said about Haut's comments.

Johnston's father was in charge of military security at the
alleged crash site.

"My father was very reluctant to talk about this incident. He
said he promised he would not discuss it," she said.

Marcel, who's father was an intelligence officer for the 509th
bomber group at Walker Air Force Base here, claims his uniformed
dad brought crash debris home.

"I think it is something very extraordinary. I believe something
happened out there in the country near Roswell ... it had to be
something very big," he said.

Shuster's comments were interesting in their characterization of
the Roswell Incident's main players.

"These are people with integrity who are conservative people,"
she said. "If they say something happened, something happened."


[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 4

                      UFO Convention Lands In Dearborn

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 15:40:30 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 15:40:30 -0400
Subject: UFO Convention Lands In Dearborn




Source: The Detroit News

http://www.detnews.com/2003/wayne/0307/02/d03-207118.htm

Tuesday, July 1, 2003

UFO Convention Lands In Dearborn

Network expected to draw 500 believers to 34th annual event

By Joel Kurth
The Detroit News

DEARBORN -- The quest for proof of intelligent life in outer
space is coming to the land of Coney Island hot dogs and the
giant freeway tire.

As many as 500 true believers are expected to attend the Mutual
UFO Network's international convention, which runs from Friday
to Sunday at the Hyatt Regency in Dearborn. Among the subjects
of the science-heavy symposium: crop circles, UFO activity in
Brazil and alleged alien abductions.

The 34th annual event comes as so-called "UFOlogists" try to
gain credibility for what many consider pseudoscience. A 1997
Time/CNN poll claimed 80 percent of Americans think the
government conceals evidence of aliens, but organizers complain
their studies are still lumped in with efforts to find Sasquatch
or the Loch Ness Monster.

"It's taken seriously, but not as seriously as it should," said
Jean Waskiewicz, 55, of Livonia, who operates the Michigan
chapter's Web site, www.mimufon.org.

"It still has a stigma. You still have a lot of people who don't
want the word 'UFO' attached to anything. I still get my fair
share of looks."

Michigan continues to be a hotbed of UFO research.

The National UFO Reporting Center claims it has logged 513
sitings in the state; and last year, enthusiasts investigated
four cases of supposed crop circles from Bad Axe to Eaton
Rapids. One of the field's top crop circle experts, William
Levengood, lives near Jackson.

Membership in the UFO Network's Michigan chapter has increased
to about 110 from 70 in the last few years, said Rich McVannel,
59, a building material salesman from Boyne City who says he's
been abducted repeatedly and has piloted spaceships.

"People care about UFOs. Behind sex, UFOs get the most hits on
any Internet search engine," Waskiewicz said.

A Google query for "UFO" netted 2.1 million files and 199
million for "sex."

The convention is open to the public, but includes fees for
listening to speeches. For information, visit the group's Web
site: www.mufon.com.

You can reach Joel Kurth at (313) 222-2610 or
jkurth@detnews.com


[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 4

                      Re: Speaking Of 'Non-Disclosure'

From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net>
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 16:02:59 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 16:30:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Speaking Of 'Non-Disclosure'


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 12:00:58 -0400
>Subject: Re: Speaking Of 'Non-Disclosure'

<snip>

>As I read the post, it seems that Gildas also speaks of only
>two implant cases that NIDS is directly involved in:

Yes - I know NIDS has only analyzed two. But Gildas Bourdais
lists ten (one of which was not an implant.) Is there anywhere
the public can at least see close up photos of the other seven?
And is there any chance a qualified person or group other than
NIDS might be interested in analyzing them?

Or has someone examined all of the other seven, and deemed them
inert lumps of metal too?

I find the Leir web site, AlienScalpel.com a serious turn-off,
being so sensationalized that its difficult to have any
confidence in. The web videos there show small things, but not
at the magnification and clarity of the NIDS photos of implants
#1 and #2.

The problem those of us who are not ufology insiders have is
that we hear claims of unusual properties from some sources, and
claims that there are no genuine UFO implants in responsible
hands from others. Who is right? We can't even look at all of
the implants as things stand now.

I would think that researchers interested in implants would want
the remaining seven on the Bourdais list resolved, publicly,
somehow.


Eleanor White







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 4

                                  Re: UFORC

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 13:34:18 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 18:35:52 -0400
Subject: Re: UFORC


>From: Paul Anderson <psa@cccrn.ca>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 09:05:41 -0700
>Subject: UFORC [was: Speaking of 'Non-Disclosure']

>>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 02:04:29 -0700
>>Subject: Re: Speaking of 'Non-Disclosure'

><snip>

>>Its the worst collection of junk imaginable. Many, or most,
>>pages are simply taken off the internet from various sites that
>>are otherwise free. There are many Canadian Crop Circle
>>newsletters for example. Here is only one:

>>http://www.uforc.com/database/page8.html

>>(I'll get back to Implants in a moment... chuckle!)

><snip>

>Larry,

>Is there a reason for making a point about this?


Yes there is, most absolutely.

Fantastic claims in this domain do nothing but harm.

Honest researchers and UFO students have wasted years and years
chasing bogus leads down. Now here comes the " The Largest UFO
Database in the World", all or most of which is copied like a
Texas high school term paper, and you have the (whatever) to
write to me?

Anyone who has not seen the obvious damage has not bothered to
look. May I ask if you are among the "Panel of Experts" I
referred to earlier? Just curious.


- Larry Hatch








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 4

                  Re: Mars Photos From Dr. Tom Van Flandern

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 14:33:16 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 18:37:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Mars Photos From Dr. Tom Van Flandern


>From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 10:28:50 -0400
>Subject: Re: Mars Photos From Dr. Tom Van Flandern

<snip>

>Well, given that we have a number of these symbolic drawings,
>some huge as on the Nazca plain, here on Earth, I'm not sure why
>someone attempting to find similar figures in NASA's Mars images
>should be labelled 'an embarassment'.

A member of the Society for Planetary SETI research has proposed
an interesting method for deducing the reality of Martian
"geoglyphs" seen in profile. Basically, if one sees what looks
like a Nazca-like design and the image has been cropped by data
transmission, this allows you to make an a priori prediction on
what the "missing" section should show if and when new photos
are taken.

If the predicted features are indeed there, then the prediction
has quantitative significance.


=====
>Mac Tonnies (macbot@yahoo.com)

Explore MTVI @ http://www.mactonnies.com

Posthuman Blues: http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com (daily blog)








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 4

             Re: Mars Photos From Dr. Tom Van Flandern - Tonnies

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 14:39:44 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 18:38:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Mars Photos From Dr. Tom Van Flandern - Tonnies


>From: Betsy Sinkey <westoo@attbi.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 20:17:17 -0500
>Subject: Re: Mars Photos From Dr. Tom Van Flandern

<snip>

>You have made an excellent observation and pointed out the
>selective exclusion of important scientific specialization
>groups, most especially archeology and exobiology.

That's the biggest stumbling block to objective research.  Once
the scientific establishment is willing to concede that the
possibility of a former civilization can't be dismissed out of
hand, perhaps we'll see several seemingly disparate disciplines
converge (specifically geology and archaeology, which might have
more in common than most think).

Right now, the Mars exploration program is committed solely to
geological interpretations of any oddities it might happen
across; this needs to change.

http://www.mactonnies.com/cydonia.html

Mac







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 4

                     Leir & 'Implants' [Was: Speaking of

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 18:04:01 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 19:27:45 -0400
Subject: Leir & 'Implants' [Was: Speaking of


>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 02:04:29 -0700
>Subject: Re: Speaking of 'Non-Disclosure'

>>From: Colm Kelleher <nids@anv.net>
>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 15:45:42 -0700
>>Subject: Re: Speaking of 'Non-Disclosure'

>>>From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net>
>>>Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 17:52:52 -0400
>>>Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 18:17:48 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: Speaking Of 'Non-Disclosure'

>>>>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr>
>>>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>>Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 15:51:46 +0200
>>>>Subject: Re: Speaking Of 'Non-Disclosure'

><snip>

>>>>I am surprised to learn that NIDS would have 16 implants in its
>>>>possession.

>>>>Where did you find that out?

>>>I first heard that from John Velez on a Strange Days... Indeed
>>>broadcast, I'm guessing about a year ago? I wrote Dr. Colm
>>>Kelleher and asked him the question soon afterward, and as I can
>>>best remember got a kind of non-answer. (That PC is now dead so
>>>I can't recover his reply.) However, Dr. Kelleher didn't deny he
>>>had the implants.

>>To quickly clear up this issue.

>>In 1996 NIDS conducted an analysis on "implants" from two
>>individuals.

>>The report has been continuously on the NIDS web site since
>>1998:

>>http://www.nidsci.org/articles/metal/metal.html

>>After the analysis of the first two implants had been completed
>>the NIDS science advisory board (SAB), see:

>>http://www.nidsci.org/personnel.html

>>strongly urged that NIDS cease analysis of any further
>>"implants" on the grounds that the first two analyses had
>>yielded nothing beyond normal, trivial, mundane data.

>>The NIDS SAB stated that no evidence of anomalies had been found
>>in these "implants".

>>NIDS has never received "16 implants". After 1996, no further
>>work was done by NIDS on "implants" for the reasons given.

>>Colm A. Kelleher Ph.D


>I'm glad you clarified the NIDS position on these matters.

<snip>

Hola Laroo, All.

Larry wrote:

>I would like to know more about the story of the "16 recovered
>implants". Not the implants themselves, but rather how the story
>originated and developed. I'd like to learn the mechanics of it.
>That might help us calibrate our filters.

I had a long conversation with EBK about this just today. What's
going on is; Eleanor partially remembers a discussion between
Errol and myself on SDI regarding the alleged implants that Dr.
Lier has surgically recovered. I had read a post (not certain if
it was on UFO UpDates, but somewhere) by Dr. Lier in which he
brazenly recruits candidates (abductees) for a new round of
invasive surgical procedures in order to recover more of these
'objects'.

I was outraged. (What else is new? ;) And I publicly asked; What
happened to all of the alleged implants that he had already
recovered? I wanted to know why he needed more than the 15 he
had already collected. It is _my_ recollection that in the last
six or seven years, the total number of surgeries that have been
performed by Roger Lier in an attempt to recover an alleged
alien implant is 15 - to date.

Anyway, what I was asking about were the objects that were
already in hand. Had they been analyzed? Where? By who? What was
the results of the analysis? Why did he need to cut even more
abductees? I still get mad when I think about it.

If the objects that were recovered were consistently coming up
as prosaic/ordinary things, then for Pete's sake, why subject
more people to invasive surgery?

That's my best recollection as to the genesis of this whole
conversation. I hope this clears up any confusion that Eleanor's
Post may have caused. If EBK and I can figure out which program
we had the conversation on, we'll give it another listen. If
needed, I'll post a transcript or sound file so everybody can
hear exactly what was said.


Regards,

John Velez








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 5

                              Re: UFORC - Hatch

From: Paul Anderson <psa@cccrn.ca>
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 17:21:11 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 08:43:13 -0400
Subject: Re: UFORC - Hatch


>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 13:34:18 -0700
>Subject: Re: UFORC

<snip>

>Yes there is, most absolutely.

>Fantastic claims in this domain do nothing but harm.

>Honest researchers and UFO students have wasted years and years
>chasing bogus leads down. Now here comes the " The Largest UFO
>Database in the World", all or most of which is copied like a
>Texas high school term paper, and you have the (whatever) to
>write to me?

>Anyone who has not seen the obvious damage has not bothered to
>look. May I ask if you are among the "Panel of Experts" I
>referred to earlier? Just curious.


Hi Larry,

I agree with you actually. People who know me know I am not one
of those who makes fantastic claims, indeed the opposite if
anything; I've even sometimes been "criticized" somewhat by
those who do, the ones who go around insisting that crop circles
"must" be made by aliens, etc. for example and won't listen
otherwise to other possibilities. That kind of thing does a lot
of damage, I agree with that completely.

The only thing I was questioning was the inclusion of one of our
CCCRN updates, and thus CCCRN, in the "collection of junk" as
you put it. You do not know our work here. I have worked long
and hard to bring _serious_ researchers together in Canada,
since 1995, to study the circles phenomenon in a like manner. I
do _not_ have any connection with UFORC, have never met them or
talked to them etc. I do remember getting a couple e-mails years
ago from them, just saying they liked our work here, that's it.
I am not on they're "panel of experts". Here is the link to it,
their "Advisory Panel" of experts (none of whom I've even heard
of):

http://www.uforc.com/ufoap/index.html

Do you see me on it? No. And I wouldn't want to be. And the link
is right there on the front page I found, you don't even have to
break into the web site to see it...

I agree with your criticisms re what is on their site, etc, at
least some of what I've seen so far, but that does not translate
to our organization here by default. We have no working
relationship with them at all, period. I did notice when I
looked at their site today that they taken some photos from our
site without permission and the wrong (non-specific) credits are
given.

BTW, I went through the pages as you mentioned previously, and
none came up as black screens with reversed text. Maybe a
browser problem, I don't know (I'm using Internet Explorer, on a
G3 Mac).

Paul Anderson







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 5

                            Millennium Disclosure

From: Chris Evans <chrisevans@zoominternet.net>
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 21:49:04 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 08:58:30 -0400
Subject: Millennium Disclosure


For those who may not be aware, a disclosure effort is, in fact,
underway. But expect this to remain clouded by the usual
infighting that exists between the various parties and interests
that have always wrestled over the UFO issue. And, for various
reasons - not necessarily directly related to an actual belief
or non-belief in the existence of UFOs - that infighting is
expected to continue for some time.

I have read some of the recent derogatory comments on this List,
pertaining to the Sci-Fi Channel's recent documentary, "Out of
the Blue." My heart goes out to some of you whose names I
recognize, that are/were affiliated with certain efforts of the
past to purposefully downplay the issues. We understand the
former purposes behind this, however changes are underway. You
might look back to those days, and question the motives of those
who seemed so "motivated."  In this day and age, there are
staunch proponents who are highly motivated to "follow the money
trail"..... And with that, perhaps you may gather my meaning.

As to my own research and insights, I have begun a 'disclosure
series' of articles. I consider myself mostly finished with my
objective, minus some small details that may likely remain
dubious. A link will be provided, below, to my "Millennium
Disclosure" series.

Toward the subject of "implants," I will mention that my article
relating to my analysis of the "abduction" phenomenon will not
appear for some weeks. However, I will note - as mentioned by
Mr. Valez - while in light of "prosaic/ordinary things"; that
the function and location of the "induction" implant was, at
first, externally located and operated. Some `smoking gun' clues
have been available in published cases for as long as 40 or more
years.

Have a great Independence Day holiday and may God keep America
Strong!

Kind Regards

Chris Evans

"Alien Conspiracy: Unraveling the UFO/Alien Mystery"

http://www.geocities.com/chrisb_evans/menu.html







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 5

               Punch Biopsy/Involuntary Sampling Ottawa Feb-03

From: Brian Vike - HBCCUFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 19:51:28 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 09:07:08 -0400
Subject: Punch Biopsy/Involuntary Sampling Ottawa Feb-03


Hi List

The gentleman who sent me the following report and photos is a
very credible person. Also there is information I cannot and
will not make available on this case. Plus the person this case
relates to will remain anonymous. The photos of the marking on
the man's left wrist will be posted on both of my sites. As more
information comes in I will be posting the updates to my site.

As always, I would like to thank the person for sending me the
information and pictures.

See: http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/small_roundish_scoop_mark_called.htm

-----


Ottawa, Ontario
Canada

Date: First week of February, 2003

Brian,

Something kind of interesting happened in the first week of Feb.
2003. I had gone to bed around midnight and woke up at 08:00.
Upon waking I found a small roundish scoop mark on my left
wrist, characteristics were as follows:

1. About 1/8", two millimeters in diameter.

2. The bottom of the wound is concave.

3. There was no pain at all associated with the wound.

4. The bottom of the wound was flecked with very small dots of
   blood.

5. The bottom of the wound was slick and smooth as if it was
   cauterized.

6. It looked as if it had been done just five minutes before I
   awoke.

7. The wound took two months to heal and is now only visible
   using a jeweler's loupe.

- There is nothing sharp near my bed that would cause a wound.

- I know there was no wound on my wrist before hitting the sack
  because upon retiring I took off my watch and did not observe
  any blemish in the left wrist area.

Thinking it had been a rather large insect bite, I went to a
local Ottawa clinic. The doctor looked at it and said, why did
you have that done? When I informed him how it had appeared, he
became quiet and paused for a few moments, then said that the
mark was from a procedure called a "punch biopsy" that appeared
to be done by a left-handed individual using a laser scalpel-
type device.

The doctor said that he could not comment on this officially and
recorded the reason for my visit on my file as an "insect bite".
He also consulted a small notebook and gave me a URL stating
that I could get more information. The doctor stated that this
was the fourth or fifth case of what he called "involuntary
sampling" and noted it appears to be an emerging phenomenon.

The fact that this doctor had the URL handy is pretty
interesting. BTW, I didn't question him further as he was
uncomfortable.

When I mentioned this to a friend he was at my front door within
seconds of saying, "This I gotta see" and hanging up.

Funny this stuff should happen to me now, I'm not a young kid at
(age deleted) so why "they" would want to sample the DNA of an
old fart is beyond me.

Of the attached images, I took the dark image, while my friend
took the rest.

-----

Brian Vike

Director HBCC UFO Research
Canadian Toll Free UFO Hotline 1 866 262 1989 - Free call.
Editor: Canadian Communicator - Paranormal Magazine
email: hbccufo@telus.net
Website: http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/hbcc_ufo_research.htm
http://www.geocities.com/hbccufo/home.html







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 5

                      Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Stevenson

From: Colin Stevenson <colin@c2k2.fsworld.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 12:18:46 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 09:21:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Stevenson


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 18:04:01 -0400
>Subject: Leir & 'Implants' [Was: Speaking of 'Non-Disclosure']


Hi All, Listers,

Just wondered if anyone could either tell us what these objects
actually are, or give us an URL to obtain the information.

If they are ordinary things then it may be of more interest to
abductees to know what they are, than what they are not. If they
are a danger and should be removed, or if they can be left.

I suspect I have one of these things in my left ear and I
wonder whether it should be left there or removed as it does
cause some problems now and then

Thanks

col







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 5

                     Re: A Very Ambitious Project - Beau

From: Jerome Beau <jbeau@noos.fr>
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 14:07:21 +0200
Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 09:39:02 -0400
Subject: Re: A Very Ambitious Project - Beau


>From: Daniel Guenther <daniel_g@t-online.de>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 20:19:11 +0200
>Subject: Re: A Very Ambitious Project

>I suspect feedback concerning this project was not too great
>unfortunately, at least there was none on this List.

Yes this can be disapointing but is also quite understandable
and even expectable. I see a few reasons for that :

1. No belief in project's success: Some people have seen similar
projects start and fail, or think that the project
idea/concept/design will make it fail. The fact is that it will
fail only if you don't warn about/fix yourself the flaws you may
detect. Why would you do it ? Because doing it will make the
final product suit your needs.

2. "Wait and see" behavior: One may think that the idea is not
so bad but don't want to commit and spent time and effort before
being sure it have goods chances to succeed (wait for software
releases, wait for famous UFO expert's contributions, etc.). The
fact is that the more you work on it, the more it will succeed.
Another fact is that the less you work on it, the less it will
fit your needs.

3. Lack of time: UFO experts on this List already spent a lot of
time working on investigations, books, websites, case studies,
etc. This is a misunderstanding about what is expected in such
an Open Source project : either one can work a lot for a year or
just post once a single line comment on a mailing list of the
project.

4. Don't know what to do/how to help: One can wonder how to
contribute ("I'm not such a good UFO expert", "I'm not a
software expert", "I don't understand what is expected from
contributors", actually even stating that is helping the project
to get more clear). You can help in many ways, like just stating
what you expect from such a project from a user point of vue.
Even stating why you don't intend/can't contribute help the
project to be more effective.

5. Fear of the project being led by someone/some organization
you don't agree with. Once again the project is Open Source, so
the more you contribute (technically or at the strict ufology
level), the more the project goes in your way.

Anyway, as I stated in a previous message, the project will
proceed, as both a ufological and software challenge.

>I, for myself speaking, am greatly interested in collecting UFO
>data in digital form.

Yes, one can see it in your great JTC website. The goal of RR0
IS (or whatever name we could give to this project) is to go
beyond data collection by adding customizable data processing.
Everyone will be able to write and run its own data processing
function, classification systems, an so on on a selected data
set.

>First of all I would suggest a kind of databse with all online
>documents from sites like Jan Aldrich's Project 1947, Dale
>Goudie's www.cufon.org and others.

>No copies of it, just references.

That is a good idea, which just fits well with the project.
Given the RR0 IS architecture, either :

- one or more RR0 IS server(s) reference(s) the static documents
hosted in thoses servers. Some additional information can then
be added to the Document metadata (author, textual
transcription, etc.) to allow some processing on the document's
data.

- any of these websites host an RR0 IS-compatible server to
allow those documents to be exachanged/replicated and so
targetable by user-defined processing functions.

A common misunderstanding about RR0 IS is to think that it aims
to build a centralized server hosting all UFO data. It just aims
to unify the way data are retrieved, and add processing
capabilities on it.

>It should also be noted whether a document is just a pdf-file
>with scanned images or a text file which can be searched.

>Another important step may be to organize the process of
>putting scanned images from newspaper clipping or FOIA documents
>into written form.

Actually the RR0 IM (Information Model) defines a Document as a
textual Record - see:

http://rr0.sourceforge.net/JavaDoc/org/rr0/im/business/report/doc-files/Sources.
html).

This allows a document to provide both its data in a raw form
("contents") and in a parseable/computable textual form
("text").

>Someone would have to type it because many 'sources' are poor
>quality (I of course would volunteer - among others I hope - to
>do it - I've already done that just check the links).

Here again, once a Document in referenced in the RR0 IS, it may
be completed with metadata such as textual transcription (in
various languages) and so targetable by some process. For
example you may define a "account quality" function that count
the number of words in the text, or much more complicated
functions of your own and that will be available to the whole
community.

>Brad Sparks also released his new Version 1.6 ;-) of his
>'Project Blue Book Unknowns' at www.nidsci.org (NIDS). This
could be a GOOD starting point to find out which FOIA Documents
could be included in a database, next.

Right.

>So all of you just come a bit closer to another and help us to
>build up an open database of UFO info!

Thanks again for your support Daniel.

To everybody, once again, the RR0 IS aims to be your tool,
built/specified by yourself.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 5

                      Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Bourdais

From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr>
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 15:38:35 +0200
Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 10:18:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Bourdais


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 18:04:01 -0400
>Subject: Leir & 'Implants' [Was: Speaking of 'Non-Disclosure']

>>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 02:04:29 -0700
>>Subject: Re: Speaking of 'Non-Disclosure'

>>>From: Colm Kelleher <nids@anv.net>
>>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>>Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 15:45:42 -0700
>>>Subject: Re: Speaking of 'Non-Disclosure'

>>>>From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net>
>>>>Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 17:52:52 -0400
>>>>Fwd Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 18:17:48 -0400
>>>>Subject: Re: Speaking Of 'Non-Disclosure'

>>>>>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr>
>>>>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>>>Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 15:51:46 +0200
>>>>>Subject: Re: Speaking Of 'Non-Disclosure'

>><snip>

>>>In 1996 NIDS conducted an analysis on "implants" from two
>>>individuals.

>>>The report has been continuously on the NIDS web site since
>>>1998:

>>>http://www.nidsci.org/articles/metal/metal.html

>>>After the analysis of the first two implants had been completed
>>>the NIDS science advisory board (SAB), see:

>>>http://www.nidsci.org/personnel.html

>>>strongly urged that NIDS cease analysis of any further
>>>"implants" on the grounds that the first two analyses had
>>>yielded nothing beyond normal, trivial, mundane data.

<snip>

>I had a long conversation with EBK about this just today. What's
>going on is; Eleanor partially remembers a discussion between
>Errol and myself on SDI regarding the alleged implants that Dr.
>Lier has surgically recovered. I had read a post (not certain if
>it was on UFO UpDates, but somewhere) by Dr. Lier in which he
>brazenly recruits candidates (abductees) for a new round of
>invasive surgical procedures in order to recover more of these
>'objects'.

>I was outraged. (What else is new? ;) And I publicly asked; What
>happened to all of the alleged implants that he had already
>recovered? I wanted to know why he needed more than the 15 he
>had already collected. It is _my_ recollection that in the last
>six or seven years, the total number of surgeries that have been
>performed by Roger Lier in an attempt to recover an alleged
>alien implant is 15 - to date.

To John Velez and the List

Very briefly,

John, you have the name wrong - again - Leir, not Lier. Second,
you have the number of implants wrong - 10, not 15. Third - I
have not seen anywhere that Dr Leir "brazenly" recruited
candidates.

I know a competent metallurgist who read Dr Leir's book
carefully and found the the metallurgic composition very
unusual, for the implant analysed by New Mexico Tech.

This, alone, would grant further study, it seems to me. The
injuction of the scientific board at NIDS to stop research
immediately sounds very strange to me.

BTW, the results of the first analysis, made at Los Alamos,
remain to be published, apparently. If there was nothing in
them, why then a second analysis ? And without telling the
metallurgist what it was about?

One more point - quite a few photos and microphotos of implants
have been published, in Dr Leir's book and in many articles.

I strongly suggest that we just wait a bit for new developments,
and refrain from scornful comments in the meantime.


Gildas Bourdais







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 5

                            Rendlesham UFO 'Hoax'

From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 16:46:49 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 12:27:41 -0400
Subject: Rendlesham UFO 'Hoax'


Dear List Members

For those of you interested in the Rendlesham Forest incident,
known in the USA as The Bentwater's UFO Case, I have some
interesting updates. But first I would like to address the
testimony of practical joker Kevin Conde.

Over the years sceptics and debunkers have offered various
theories for what could have happened during that week, the
latest being a practical joke allegedly played by the
aforementioned US airman.

Michael Hanlon of the UK Daily Mail interviewed Kevin Conde, who
told the journalist that the famous 1980 Rendlesham Forest UFO
incident was nothing more than a practical joke on his part.

This is quite a statement!

Considering I spent three years investigating the incident,
interviewed hundreds of people involved, and wrote a book about
the case, I was, as I told the journalist, 'Amazed to hear this
claim.'

We are of course coming up to what is known in media terms as
the 'silly season', and this particular story fits the bill. We
can do without people like Conde who is amongst dozens who know
very little about the case, and as Nick Pope states in the Daily
Mail article, "Frankly, there are a lot of people
retrospectively trying to write themselves into the story."

Conde's story is so full of discrepancies that no serious
researcher would pay attention to it. But then we can't call the
debunkers (those who encouraged Conde to go public), serious
researchers. After all, aren't these the same people who thought
the UFO was a lighthouse until proved wrong? But as usual they
had to find another mundane theory. What was it, a tractor?
Well, now there's yet another theory, a battered car!

In my opinion, claims such as Conde's, should not be taken
seriously without more information to back up their testimony.

Conde's claim to fame is that he drove a battered 1979 Plymouth
Volare standard issue American police car, down the taxiway,
where he stuck the spotlight on, after sticking red and green
lenses on it. He then drove the vehicle around in circles, in
the fog and put on his PA loudspeaker, whilst flashing his car
lights. He claims this was the basis of the famous 1980
Rendlesham Forest UFO incident.

Let's examine Conde's testimony. It doesn't take a genius to see
the flaws.

1. Conde can't recall the date of his alleged prank. If this is
so then how can he claim he was responsible for the 1980
incident?

2. Conde says there was fog on the night in question, but there
was no fog during any of the incidents that week.

3. He says he played his loudspeaker, but the UFOs were silent.

4. The car he used for the prank was a 'battered 1979 Plymouth
Volare.' Let us not forget that incident took place in 1980,
which means the so called battered police vehicle would have
been less than a year old at that time.

5. Conde claims he played the prank on the taxiway! The incident
did NOT take place on or near the taxiway, but inside the
forest. And let us not forget that the UFO was first seen
falling into the forest, which prompted those at the East Gate,
John Burroughs and his sergeant, Bud Steffans, to think it was a
downed aircraft. The lights, of course, were not going up into
the sky, but were falling down from the sky.

6. Conde says he was unaware of the Rendlesham mystery until he
looked up his old base on a US military website. If this is the
case then how could he claim that as far as he was aware they
found nothing above background [radiation] levels?

7. USAF personnel usually work in pairs when patrolling the base
in vehicles. I'm assuming he was patrolling the base, and if so
then he most likely would have had a partner that night. Who was
that person and why has Conde failed to mention him?

8. When asked about the metallic spacecraft and [ground]
depressions Conde pointed out that a large helicopter had landed
the previous night, apparently with three landing skids. Conde
obviously hasn't seen the USAF photographs of the landing site
showing the three ground indentations being examined by a
British police officer and USAF Captain Mike Verano. For anybody
interested, these are available in my book on the case entitled
'You Can't Tell The People' available at www.amazon.co.uk

Was there really a 'large helicopter' capable of forming three
depressions in a triangular pattern? And if so, then why would
the USAF alert the local constabulary to the landing site.
Surely a USAF captain would know if these indentations were
formed by one of their own helicopters. And why would a 'large'
helicopter land smack in the middle of the forest, and even more
important, how was 'a large helicopter' able to land amongst the
trees.

Kevin Conde, a part-time police officer in Sacramento, says, "I
was amazed. I had no idea about all this nonsense."

What nonsense? At least the witnesses testimony is backed up by
ample evidence.

He then goes on to say:

"I hate to be cynical, but when I see people making money out of
this, I have to ask myself if they are not nuts, what are they?"

Does he have any idea how much it costs in time, effort and
money to do investigative work, and furthermore, he has no idea
the sacrifice, stress, frustration and God knows what else, that
the witnesses have had to endure these past twenty three years.
He should be ashamed of himself for acting out of vanity instead
of considering the cost to others. Conde is no doubt enjoying
his fifteen minutes of 'silly season' fame, but if he wants to
stay in the limelight he will need to prove himself. And I for
one am only too pleased to challenge him.

For instance:

Aside from the discrepancies in his story, which are far too
many to dismiss, I have yet to hear from any USAF personnel who
recall Conde serving at the base at the time of the incident. If
any do recall him it will be interesting to see whether they
remember him being a practical joker, let alone recollect any
prank similar to the one he claims to have carried out.

And what proof does Conde offer other than his own verbal
testimony?

And what about his Air Force records. For somebody who is
claiming to be responsible for such an historical event, I would
want to inspect these records and speak to those who worked
alongside him. And that's just for starters.

A glance at the BBC website INSIDE OUT reveals how most people
feel about Conde's ridiculous claims. BBC Suffolk, which was the
first to feature Conde's outrageous claims, should be critised
for being so naive. For in an attempt to get an exclusive hoax
story, the producers and researchers, having spent money on the
documentary, such as flying Conde from USA etc, have themselves
fallen victim to a real practical joke. For one thing is
certain, Conde's story had nothing to do with the Rendlesham
case.

Regarding the landing site:

For twenty three years people have been searching for the
landing site relating to the initial incident which took place
on the 25 December 1980. This was a landing of a small,
triangular craft (see Colonel Halt's memorandum for
description). The incident involved USAF witnesses Jim
Penniston, John Burroughs and Edward Cabansag.

Brenda Butler, who along with Dot Street, were the first
researchers to learn about the case back in January of 1980, a
few days after the initial incident.

In the past Brenda thought she had discovered the site based on
Colonel Halt's description, but I later pointed out that Jim
Penniston was not in agreement with this, and of course he was
one of the witnesses to the event. Halt's encounter took place
later that week, albeit that he did investigate the initial
landing site.

A couple of years ago forester Vince Thurketle, took me to what
he believed was the original site after viewing the USAF
photographs.

But a few weeks ago Brenda sent me photographs of an area of the
forest that her partner Peter is absolutely convinced is the
genuine site. Using the USAF photographs, Peter has spent a year
trying to match the location, not an easy task considering the
size of the forest, the fact that it's been twenty three years
since the incident took place, and of course the considerable
damage caused during the storm of 1987.

I have examined the pictures sent by Brenda and Peter and have
to say they are a good match with the USAF photographs. I
haven't personally done any research into these recent
photographs, or visited the site in question, but if Peter has
found the original site, then it tells us that contrary to
popular belief, the trees surrounding the site were not felled
after the incident because in the recent photo they are still
intact.

But even more interesting is a close up photograph of one of the
trees, which shows damage on its trunk. Witnesses, including
Colonel Halt, examined the site and recorded details of damage
to the trees. There is a section of Halt's tape where he appears
to be trying to climb the tree to look at damage. This is
interesting because the mark on the tree photographed by Peter,
is quite high on the trunk, which may dismiss the theory that
these marks could have been caused by sap samples taken by
foresters.

Meanwhile, I have located Captain Mike Verano, who has insisted
that he went out (he is shown in the USAF photograph) and
investigated the site and agrees that he took a British police
officer with him. So the USAF photos are given even more
credibility. Also, it's worth looking closer at the USAF
photographs which depict a scuffed-up area just off centre,
exactly in the same position as described and measured by
Colonel Halt in his tape recording twenty three years ago.


Best wishes

Georgina Bruni







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 5

                              Re: UFORC - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 13:49:56 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 17:15:00 -0400
Subject: Re: UFORC - Hatch


>From: Paul Anderson <psa@cccrn.ca>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 17:21:11 -0700
>Subject: Re: UFORC

>>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 13:34:18 -0700
>>Subject: Re: UFORC

><snip>

>>Yes there is, most absolutely.

>>Fantastic claims in this domain do nothing but harm.

>>Honest researchers and UFO students have wasted years and years
>>chasing bogus leads down. Now here comes the " The Largest UFO
>>Database in the World", all or most of which is copied like a
>>Texas high school term paper, and you have the (whatever) to
>>write to me?

>>Anyone who has not seen the obvious damage has not bothered to
>>look. May I ask if you are among the "Panel of Experts" I
>>referred to earlier? Just curious.

>I agree with you actually. People who know me know I am not one
>of those who makes fantastic claims, indeed the opposite if
>anything; I've even sometimes been "criticized" somewhat by
>those who do, the ones who go around insisting that crop circles
>"must" be made by aliens, etc. for example and won't listen
>otherwise to other possibilities. That kind of thing does a lot
>of damage, I agree with that completely.

>The only thing I was questioning was the inclusion of one of our
>CCCRN updates, and thus CCCRN, in the "collection of junk" as
>you put it. You do not know our work here. I have worked long
>and hard to bring _serious_ researchers together in Canada,
>since 1995, to study the circles phenomenon in a like manner. I
>do _not_ have any connection with UFORC, have never met them or
>talked to them etc. I do remember getting a couple e-mails years
>ago from them, just saying they liked our work here, that's it.
>I am not on they're "panel of experts". Here is the link to it,
>their "Advisory Panel" of experts (none of whom I've even heard
>of):

>http://www.uforc.com/ufoap/index.html

>Do you see me on it? No. And I wouldn't want to be. And the link
>is right there on the front page I found, you don't even have to
>break into the web site to see it...

>I agree with your criticisms re what is on their site, etc, at
>least some of what I've seen so far, but that does not translate
>to our organization here by default. We have no working
>relationship with them at all, period. I did notice when I
>looked at their site today that they taken some photos from our
>site without permission and the wrong (non-specific) credits are
>given.

>BTW, I went through the pages as you mentioned previously, and
>none came up as black screens with reversed text. Maybe a
>browser problem, I don't know (I'm using Internet Explorer, on a
>G3 Mac).

>Paul Anderson


Hello Paul:

Sorry for any misunderstanding!

My point particular point there was that UFORC was taking other
people's materials, freely available elsewhere, and charging
their visitors to see them!

UFORC reproduced several CCCRN pages. I grabbed one as an
example, and didn't mean to imply that was junk.

Did UFORC get permission from CCCRN to mirror their pages? If
so, fine. Otherwise, they just copied them uninvited. I pretty
much dredged the entire UFORC site to see if they had 'borrowed'
any of my work for their PayPal visitors. I found none of that
yet.

The UFORC 'largest UFO database in the world' (all 68 pages
worth) appears to be gathered at random, without regard to
quality and relevance. They might even put up something good by
chance.

While I don't put much stock in Crop Circles personally, I did
not mean to trash the people who study them or their work.

Here's the UFO Advisory Panel again (the link you refer to says
"Consult with our panel of UFO experts..")

 http://www.uforc.com/ufoap/index.html

I didn't really think you were on that list. [burp] Sorry for
that unnecessary zinger also.

Again, does anybody know much about these people? I mean from
memory, short of doing a Google Search. I can do that from here.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 5

                       Re: Rendlesham UFO Hoax - Kelly

From: James Kelly <Azredant@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 17:19:36 EDT
Fwd Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 17:30:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Rendlesham UFO Hoax - Kelly


Rendlesham UFO Hoax - My Mother The Car

I knew John Burroughs, a witness to the strange configuration of
lights that descended upon the Bentwater's base in 1980. I
worked with him for ten years in Arizona before he moved on in
1994. I was also stationed in England, at Lakenheath AFB at the
time of the UFO incident from 1978 to 1980. I too, like John,
was a Security Police Specialist for the Air Force. It was
because of the numerous conversations with John about the
incident that stoked my interest about Ufology that I became a
field investigator with MUFON, then a section director for
Maricopa County here in Phoenix, AZ. My interest in UFO's soared
for awhile.

It is discouraging to me that so many people have begun to
debunk this case. The lighthouse theory is a moronic and
pathetic excuse for explaining it away.

Colonel Halt recently stated that the lights were away from the
lighthouse during the movement of the unidentified sightings.
But of course, were not supposed to believe him? Or, are we not
supposed to believe the other Security Policeman that were at
the site either?

What about reports of all of the cameras that were there at the
scene taking photographs of this object? Was that made up to?

Now we have a report of a nitwit driving a car with flashing
lights through the forest. Yeah that was it. Of course, I didn't
know that a car could descend vertically from the sky through
the trees and then to the ground.

I am so glad that the truth has finally come out...


James Kelly







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 6

                             Re: UFORC - LeFevre

From: Charlette LeFevre <clefevre@oz.net>
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 14:57:33 -0700 (MST)
Fwd Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 11:11:56 -0400
Subject: Re: UFORC - LeFevre


>From: Paul Anderson <psa@cccrn.ca>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 17:21:11 -0700
>Subject: Re: UFORC

>>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 13:34:18 -0700
>>Subject: Re: UFORC

<snip>

>http://www.uforc.com/ufoap/index.html

>Do you see me on it? No. And I wouldn't want to be. And the link
>is right there on the front page I found, you don't even have to
>break into the web site to see it...

>I agree with your criticisms re what is on their site, etc, at
>least some of what I've seen so far, but that does not translate
>to our organization here by default. We have no working
>relationship with them at all, period. I did notice when I
>looked at their site today that they taken some photos from our
>site without permission and the wrong (non-specific) credits are
>given.

>BTW, I went through the pages as you mentioned previously, and
>none came up as black screens with reversed text. Maybe a
>browser problem, I don't know (I'm using Internet Explorer, on a
>G3 Mac).


Gentlemen,

Yes, there is no doubt UFORC has misleading claims and takes from
many researchers and organizations without permission.

We've been active in the Seattle area for five years now with
public presentations and feel we know just about every UFO group
or organization in the area. Big, small, microscopic. We have
yet to see UFORC put itself out there in the public eye for
scrutiny since it started in 1998.

If it makes anyone feel any better, as I live in the same town,
I shall certainly smack UFORC's Director Chris Montgomery upside
the head or at least give him a piece of my mind if I see him at
a grocery store. Largest UFO Database in the World? My ass.


Charlette

Seattle UFO/Paranormal Group





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 6

                Re: UFO Conference in Halifax, Nova Scotia -

From: Michel M. Deschamps <ufoman@ican.net>
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 01:20:47 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 11:14:56 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Conference in Halifax, Nova Scotia -


>From: Fern Belzil <fbelzil@telusplanet.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 20:26:11 -0600
>Subject: Re: UFO Conference in Halifax, Nova Scotia

>>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 01:10:08 -0300
>>Subject: UFO Conference in Halifax, Nova Scotia

>>UFO Conference October 11 & 12
>>Halifax, Nova Scotia
>>Canada

>>Speakers:

>>Stanton Friedman
>>Budd Hopkins
>>Antonio Huneeus
>>Chris Styles
>>Don Ledger

<snip>

>I see by the list of speakers for the Halifax conference, no one
>speaking about mutilations, I guess that is not important enough
>for Eastern Canada, Yet a lot of information I have for instance
>show a strong indications of Alien involvement.

>I have had 7 cases already this summer.

>Discovery Channel is doing a documantary about my past success
>in the purebred cattle business, and my mutilation findings. I
>have been to close to 100 mutes the last 6 years.


Hi Fern,

I also "believe" or feel that mutilations are directly connected
to UFO occupants....regardless of what anybody says..... And
despite Linda Howe's poor judgment of the Brazil hoax, her work
on mutilations is second-to-none in the field and reinforce the
idea that aliens are involved in these gruesome attacks/
slaughters.

I'd love to read your material... or even try to purchase any
interview you might hqave done with radio or TV crews.....

Ccordially,

Michel M. Deschamps
Sudbury, Ontario







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 6

                  Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens

From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 19:12:48 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 11:30:56 -0400
Subject: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens

Source: The Observer - UK

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,992218,00.html

Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens

Paul Harris
Sunday July 6, 2003
The Observer

They have been the subject of derision for claiming aliens have
visited Earth from outer space, but believers in the existence
of UFOs were this weekend excitedly poring over newly released
military documents that show how fighter aircraft were scrambled
to intercept strange shapes in Britain's skies.

The secret papers obtained from the US military give an insight
into an astonishing chain of events sparked by UFO sightings
over East Anglia in 1956.

After receiving numerous calls reporting bright lights darting
across the sky, fighters from RAF Lakenheath spent more than
seven hours trying to shoot down the objects, which were picked
up on army radar screens.

The classified documents were secured under the US Freedom of
Information Act by Dave Clarke, an author researching the
subject.

One US Air Force intelligence report described how '12 to 15'
objects were picked up on radar screens on 13 August 1956. They
were tracked for more than 50 miles. One object was logged
travelling at 4,000mph. 'Operators making these radar sightings
are of the opinion that malfunctions of equipment did not cause
these radar sightings,' the document said.

The radar logs describe white lights darting across the skies.
At times, the objects travelled in formation and performed sharp
turns.

One document describes how an object was tracked by radar for 26
miles, before it hovered for five minutes then flew away again.

A cable was sent from US Air Force Headquarters in Washington
warning of the 'considerable interest and concern' at the
sightings and demanding an immediate inquiry. The cable asked if
they were linked to a similar scare reported by a British radar
station on the Danish island of Bornholm in the Baltic Sea a
week later.

Most UFO sightings are explained by phenomena such as clouds,
weather balloons or unusual atmospheric events. At the time of
the 'Lakenheath incident', observers did report an unusual level
of meteorite activity. Meteors, and the trails they leave
behind, can register on radars and critics have said this
explains the Lakenheath incident.

Astronomical phenomena are also considered a possible cause. One
pilot sent up to intercept the objects reported 'chasing a
star.' Others described objects they were able to 'lock on' to
with their radar systems but that then manoeuvred around them.

But for UFO believers the new documents confirm their Lakenheath
sightings as the most dramatic of British UFO encounters and
provide proof that alien craft have 'buzzed' Britain for the
past 50 years. 'I am absolutely convinced they were breaches of
our airspace by some extraordinary flying machines,' said Graham
Birdsall, editor of UFO magazine.

Clarke admitted this weekend it was difficult to attribute all
the visual sightings and radar activity both from the ground and
the on-board radar systems to meteorites or weather conditions.
He believes the incident was treated so seriously by the
military that it sparked a Cold War security scare. By 1956, the
RAF Lakenheath air base, where the fighters were scrambled from,
was on the front line of the geopolitical divide. Lakenheath
played host to the new super-sensitive American U-2 spy planes
and also provided storage facilities for atomic bombs.

Clues to solving the mystery may still lie in secret US
archives. After being told no more documentation existed, Clarke
discovered a reference to a further document on the incident in
the US National Archives. He has logged a request to release it.
All British reports were destroyed in a fire five years after
the event, according to RAF records.

Clarke believes the incident had such serious security
implications that documents must still exist. 'I am a UFO
sceptic but this is an incident that has me baffled. It is just
possible that some form of Soviet spy craft was responsible, but
difficult to match any of their planes to what was observed
at the time,' he said.







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 6

                   Crop Circles Draw Curious To Fairfield

From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 00:15:13 -0300
Fwd Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 11:35:10 -0400
Subject: Crop Circles Draw Curious To Fairfield


Source: Woodland Daily Democrat - California

http://www.dailydemocrat.com/articles/2003/07/05/news/news90_.txt

July 6, 2003

Mysterious Crop Circles Draw Curious To Fairfield

A flight to get an aerial view of a series of crop circles
discovered earlier this week in Fairfield, netted another
surprise - a second field with a crop circle.

From MediaNews Group and wire reports

Located south of the site where local farmer Larry Balestra
discovered 15 large flattened circles and shapes in his wheat
field, the newly-discovered circle is smaller with a straight
line protruding from it. The smaller circle is located in a
field off Suisun Valley Road behind Solano Community College's
rear parking area. Rick Roach, Photo Editor of The Vacaville
Reporter, discovered the new circle as he and a local pilot were
angling for a photograph of the larger crop circles in
Balestra's field. "I said, "Hey! There's another one,'" Roach
recalled. He snapped several shots of the shape. Scientists,
curiosity seekers, media, UFO specialists and even a woman
wanting to cure her paralyzed dog have swarmed to Balestra's
wheat field at Suisun Valley and Rockville roads during the past
week after learning of extensive crop circles imprinted there
over the weekend. Balestra, of Suisun City, found the 15 large
flattened circles and shapes in his wheat field last Saturday,
one of them more than 140 feet in diameter. "What the heck?"
Balestra muttered to himself upon walking into the field and
making the discovery. He then pulled out his cell phone and told
his wife, "You won't believe what I'm looking at." It's unclear
whether aliens, teenagers or alien teenagers landed in the
field. Whatever the source of the circles, which are drawing
onlookers by the dozens, Balestra just wants his crop harvested.
"The harvester can't pick this up," he said. The farmer, owner
of Larry's Produce on Suisun Valley Road, said the 2.5-foot-high
wheat grass must have been pressed late Friday night or early
Saturday morning. Balestra noticed an odd shadow in his field as
he drove by Saturday morning about 6 o'clock.

Despite the conviction of many UFO buffs that extraterrestrials
have played a hand in previous crop circle occurrences around
the world, Balestra appeared convinced there was a much more
earthly explanation to his ruined field. "I guess some people
have too much time on their hands," he said. Balestra said
someone must have come into the field Friday night and created
the intricate designs. Fariba Bogzaran, 45, of West Marin
County, a professor of dream studies at J.F.K. University,
traveled from Berkeley after hearing of the crop circles. Before
getting a firsthand look, Bogzaran contacted the farmer's family
members to let them know that "after 10 years of watching crop
circles, they would not be harmed by it." In fact, "if it's a
genuine one, next year his crop will grow two inches higher,"
she said. Bogzaran traveled to England last year to study crop
circles "with experts in the field." She has been studying the
phenomenon for 10 years and spoke in Berkeley a couple months
ago on the subject. "The layout of this particular crop circle
looks very similar to early crop circles of early England,"
Bogzaran said.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 6

                      Re: Rendlesham UFO 'Hoax' - Groff

From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 12:02:14 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 18:53:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Rendlesham UFO 'Hoax' - Groff


>From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 16:46:49 +0100
>Subject: Rendlesham UFO 'Hoax'

>Dear List Members

>For those of you interested in the Rendlesham Forest incident,
>known in the USA as The Bentwater's UFO Case, I have some
>interesting updates. But first I would like to address the
>testimony of practical joker Kevin Conde.

<snip>

>Conde's claim to fame is that he drove a battered 1979 Plymouth
>Volare standard issue American police car, down the taxiway,
>where he stuck the spotlight on, after sticking red and green
>lenses on it. He then drove the vehicle around in circles, in
>the fog and put on his PA loudspeaker, whilst flashing his car
>lights. He claims this was the basis of the famous 1980
>Rendlesham Forest UFO incident.


I'm curious where the term "battered" came from. The only quotes
I've seen are on the BBC website but the term "battered" was
never used there (that I could see).

It seems to me that if things did happen the way Conde says,
then it should be easy to duplicate. I don't think that there
was ever any mention of fog in previous reports though, so that
would have to be verified first. If there was no fog then
Conde's story could not hold any weight.

Terry Groff

http://terrygroff.com/ufotools/







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 6

                    Re: A Very Ambitious Project - Groff

From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 13:59:50 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 18:56:04 -0400
Subject: Re: A Very Ambitious Project - Groff


>From: Daniel Guenther <daniel_g@t-online.de>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 20:19:11 +0200
>Subject: Re: A Very Ambitious Project

>>From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 13:49:34 -0500
>>Subject: A Very Ambitious Project

>>I want to introduce the List to an extremely ambitious project
>>called "RR0-IS". I first heard about it from Jerome Beau, one of
>>the project managers, via my site's feedback form.

>I suspect feedback concerning this project was not too great
>unfortunately, at least there was none on this List.

>I, for myself speaking, am greatly interested in collecting UFO
>data in digital form.

One of the major problems will be co-operation from ufologists
and researchers.

I'm thinking if databases could be provided in XML (Extensible
Markup Language), then they could all communicate with each
other without anyone having to copy data to their systems. This,
however, may require a learning curve that some may not be
willing to undertake but I'm sure that most IS people know what
XML is and how to use it. I also foresee someone creating
applications that will do the conversions for them. I do know
that MUFON is currently working on converting all of their
"whitepaper" to digital format.

Researchers could access a database via RR0 IS then read _and_
manipulate all information right in their browser windows via
various JAVA applets and servlets. No one would have to install
any special applications. Most users would have all they need
already. All major browsers support JAVA.

A project like this is necessary if the UFO community really
wants to pull together instead of isolating themselves in their
own little worlds. There is a tremendous amount of information
out there. All we need to do is pull it together.


Terry Groff

http://terrygroff.com/ufotools/

ICQ:18292278
AIM: cupojava11
MSN: cupojava1









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 6

                        Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Evans

From: Chris Evans <chrisevans@zoominternet.net>
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 18:25:25 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 19:02:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Evans

>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 15:38:35 +0200
>Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants'

<snip>

Since my own comments toward this subject [implants] are a part
of an article that I have not yet finished, I still however want
to repsond, since these are very important questions being asked
in this round of discussion.

To simplify matters for sake of posting, I am providing a direct
link to a page [no graphics] prepared especially for this List.
See link below.....


Kind Regards

Chris Evans

http://www.geocities.com/chrisb_evans/vs-implant.html





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 7

                  Re: STS-48 Time Tags Explained - Fleming

From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com>
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 22:13:46 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 12:29:00 -0400
Subject: Re: STS-48 Time Tags Explained - Fleming


Sorry for the delayed response. I took a week off from the "star
wars" for the July 4th holiday and have just returned home.

>Re: STS-48 Time Tags Explained - Oberg
>From: James Oberg <jamesoberg@houston.rr.com>
>Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 17:15:05 -0500
>Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 22:50:21 -0400
>Subject: Re: STS-48 Time Tags Explained - Oberg

>>From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com>
>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 08:29:22 -0500
>>Subject: Re: STS-48 Time Tags Explained - Fleming

>>_______.  As illustrated in Figure 6 of my NFS paper in a way
>>that even Mr. Oberg should be able to see, the light flash is in
>>upper left corner of the image where lens flare already was
>>located, while the L5D thruster would have been below the lower
>>left edge of the image. I've said this about 10 times and Oberg
>>has ignored it that many times. I could say it a million times
>>and he'd probably ignore it a million times.

>>But just for the heck of it, I'll try a direct question to Oberg
>>and see if he dodges it or has the integrity to answer it
>>honestly: Do you acknowledge that the flash of light is
>>brightest at the upper left corner of the image and that the
>>thruster is to the left and below the image field?

>The regions of visibility of flare from thruster plume are
>distributed evenly along the path traveled by that glowing
>plume, with no diminishing brightness along this vector, at
>least close to the shuttle across a camera field-of-view. The
>plume does not form a cloud that gets dimmer and dimmer over the
>span of several meters as it expands from the thruster. This
>means that it will not be brighter for areas of a field of view
>closer to the point of origin, either the thruster itself or -
>in this case - off some Orbiter structure in that region, say
>the elevon.

>This is the non-intuitive behavior of the glowing plume spurts,
>as observed by workers in Mission Control and by specialists who
>have viewed hundreds of hours of downlinked video.

To the best of my knowledge, the specialist who first noted the
correct position of the flare in the STS-48 video was _myself_.
Of course, image analysis is not my professional specialty. But
it's quite obvious that it's not the specialty of Mr. Oberg or
his anonymous specialists, either. At least I've demonstrated
some facility in that discipline. Mr. Oberg's specialists,
whatever it is they specialize in, have demonstrated none.

>Consequently, since in the frame of reference of the camera's
>field of view, with the origin (0,0) at lower left and the scale
>of `1' for the horizontal and vertical axis width, a plume
>origin near the thruster (approx (-1, -1) on the graph) or the
>elevon (approx (-1, -2) on the graph) would generate a
>brightness fan that is clearly densest (and presumably
>brightest) within the camera FOV at its upper left corner.

It's truly amazing how casually Mr. Oberg contradicts his OWN
stated opinion - see:

http://bedlam.rutgers.edu/ufo/oberg.txt

Oberg is on record as stating:

"What  is  the "flare" in the camera that precedes the  change
in motion of all the objects? I believe the flare in the _lower_
left camera FOV is an RCS jet firing....."

(Emphasis mine)

So Oberg first said (incorrectly) that the flare was at the
bottom of the image. Now he comes up with a glib rationale for
why it's actually at the top of the image, where I correctly
placed it. If Oberg so easily disregards his own previous
writings, why should anyone else take anything he says
seriously?

Yes, a rocket might produce a flash such that its peak intensity
is in the upper left corner of the video field of view if
assumptions about exhaust impingement angles and camera look
angles (as yet unsupported by Oberg) were true -- assumptions
that he had no need to make until I pointed out that the
location to which he originally assigned the flare was WRONG.

However, even if the rocket plume, shuttle surfaces, and camera
were oriented so as to produce a light flash with maximum
intensity at the upper left corner, it is highly unlikely that
the exhaust plume originating at the lower left would produce
the spatial distribution of brightness values shown in Figure 6
of my NFS article at:

http://www.newfrontiersinscience.com/Members/v02n02/a/NFS0202a.shtml

The brightness differences in the image caused by the flash
event forms a roughly triangular patch aligned on the camera FOV
diagonal, running from the upper left corner of the image
towards the lower right corner. In terms of Oberg's approximate
coordinates, the flash has an axis of symmetry that runs from
(0, +1) to (+1, 0). A flash caused by rocket exhaust originating
at the (-1, -1) or (-1, -2) position (to the left of the camera
FOV and below it) could have an axis of symmetry that intersects
the (0, +1) position but NOT the (+1, 0) position (lower right).
 The flash has the same orientation and shape as the pre-
existing lens flare caused by scattered sunlight, so it's
reasonable to conclude that the flash is in fact an
intensification of that lens flare.

>I am puzzled why Fleming is puzzled by this, or why he seems to
>think that a plume explanation for the visual flare MUST be
>brightest closest to the plume origin (lower left of this
>scene). If my previous explanations and descriptions of this
>were unclear and confused, I apologize and hope that improving
>quality comes with improving experience.

What I find truly puzzling is that, after viewing these hundreds
of hours of shuttle videos, Oberg and his "specialists" have
failed to produce ONE SINGLE example in other shuttle videos of
the lens flare seen in the STS-48 video during the 12 years that
have passed since the STS-48 mission. I think it's time that Mr.
Oberg be asked to produce the evidence to back up his endlessly
repeated claims. If he provides the mission and GMT for a video
sequence that replicates the STS-48 flare, I'd be more than
willing to acquire it from NASA under the FOIA.  Or does Mr.
Oberg expect his assertions to be believed without evidence,
like the guy who claimed to have a dead alien in his freezer
until the government agents took it away?

>I hope this explanation casts some light on this obscurity.

As is often the case, Mr. Oberg's explanation sheds more heat
than light.







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 7

              Re: 'Mysterious' Rocks Common In Brazil - Gevaerd

From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO  <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 08:23:32 -0300
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 12:41:22 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Mysterious' Rocks Common In Brazil - Gevaerd


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 10:23:37 -0400
>Subject: Re: 'Mysterious' Rocks Common In Brazil

>>From: Charlette LeFevre <clefevre@oz.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 23:57:15 -0700
>>Subject: 'Mysterious' Rocks Common In Brazil


Dear Ray and friends.

I was on Whitley's Dreamland last Saturday and I was given a
fair plataform to present the Brazilian researcher's side of the
hoax story. I was asked by Whitley about the stones - the
mysterious disc-shaped rocks - found in the area by LMH and
presented as evidence of alien activity in Corguinho at
Earthfiles.com.

It looks like that the professor contacted by LMH found some
unusual patterns in them, thus leading the investigative
journalist to accept the hoaxer's claims that they have
extraordinary origin and/or nature. Actually, the hoaxer openly
says the the rocks are from outer-space..... Oh yes!

The fore-mentioned professor, in communication with a co-worker
of mine, said there isn't any conclusion as to the origin and/or
nature of the rocks. And the he would not speculate beyond his
knowledge. It seems that LMH, once again, as with Phyllis
Budinger, just jumped ahead.

If the rocks are alien, then I should be asking how is it
possible the a large extension of the Maracaju Hills, in my
state, which cover at least 600km of land, are full of them? Are
the hoaxer's alien friends bringing rocks to Brazil, just for
the amusement of the hoaxer himself, his followers and LMH?

Funny how such a famous and recognized investigative reporter
can even consider that kind of garbage as "possible scientific
evidence". Of what? Of a fabricated abduction? Aliens dropping
rocks on people? Rocks raining from the sky? Rocks announcing an
abduction in progress?

Get real.

A. J. Gevaerd





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 7

                        Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 10:31:32 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 13:06:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Velez

>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 15:38:35 +0200
>Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants'

>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>>Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 18:04:01 -0400
>>Subject: Leir & 'Implants' [Was: Speaking of 'Non-Disclosure']

<snip>

>>I had a long conversation with EBK about this just today. What's
>>going on is; Eleanor partially remembers a discussion between
>>Errol and myself on SDI regarding the alleged implants that Dr.
>>Lier has surgically recovered. I had read a post (not certain if
>>it was on UFO UpDates, but somewhere) by Dr. Lier in which he
>>brazenly recruits candidates (abductees) for a new round of
>>invasive surgical procedures in order to recover more of these
>>'objects'.

>>I was outraged. (What else is new? ;) And I publicly asked; What
>>happened to all of the alleged implants that he had already
>>recovered? I wanted to know why he needed more than the 15 he
>>had already collected. It is _my_ recollection that in the last
>>six or seven years, the total number of surgeries that have been
>>performed by Roger Lier in an attempt to recover an alleged
>>alien implant is 15 - to date.

>To John Velez and the List

>Very briefly,

Hello Gildas, All,

You wrote:

>John, you have the name wrong - again - Leir, not Lier.

Oops. I have a tendency to invert certain letters, 'ie' among
them. My apologies to Dr. Leir.

>Second, you have the number of implants wrong - 10, not 15.

I got the number, 15, from either Dr. Leir himself or Derrel
Simms. I could be wrong... but I know for sure I didn't just
pull that number out of the air. Although I can no longer recall
where I read the number 15, I did read it somewhere.

>Third - I have not seen anywhere that Dr Leir "brazenly"
>recruited candidates.

This recruiting surgery candidates via e-mail lists is not an
isolated incident.

Dr. Leir was at one time a participant of the Abduction
Information Center's e-mail List. I had to drop him from the
List because after I specifically asked him not to recruit
surgery candidates among the AIC members, he did so anyway.

And yes, it is 'brazen' when he has already performed so
many surgeries with _no_ definitive or positive results.
If he has recovered an extraterrestrial object, it is the
best kept secret in the world.

As far as I know, the results of the analysis on any of
these objects that has been made public shows that they
are ordinary objects. Why continue to recruit abductees
to perform invasive surgical procedures if none of the
recovered objects he already has in hand have not proven
to be anomalous/justify further surgeries.

>I know a competent metallurgist who read Dr Leir's book
>carefully and found the the metallurgic composition very
>unusual, for the implant analysed by New Mexico Tech.

He read Leir's book? Or did he conduct an analysis on the
object in question himself?

>This, alone, would grant further study, it seems to me. The
>injuction of the scientific board at NIDS to stop research
>immediately sounds very strange to me.

How so? They tested _two_ of these objects and drew a
blank both times. (the 'implants' turned out to be prosaic
objects.) Maybe NIDS didn't have the funds or time to
conduct an analysis on any of the others. You need to
pose this question to Colm Kelleher or to John Alexander
who was head of NIDS at the time.

>BTW, the results of the first analysis, made at Los Alamos,
>remain to be published, apparently. If there was nothing in
>them, why then a second analysis? And without telling the
>metallurgist what it was about?

Good question.

>One more point - quite a few photos and microphotos of implants
>have been published, in Dr Leir's book and in many articles.

>I strongly suggest that we just wait a bit for new developments,
>and refrain from scornful comments in the meantime.

Scornful? How about 'outraged'? I see no need for Dr. Leir to
cut any more abductees unless he has evidence that one or
several of the objects that he has already recovered are of
extraterrestrial origin. So far, there has been no report of any
such object(s) having been recovered by anyone, anywhere.

Period.

Unless/until that happens, I will protest and speak out against
subjecting _anyone_else_ to invasive surgical procedures. This
isn't Nazi Germany.


Regards,

John Velez







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 7

                Re: Punch Biopsy/Involuntary Sampling Ottawa

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 10:39:54 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 13:13:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Punch Biopsy/Involuntary Sampling Ottawa


>From: Brian Vike - HBCCUFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 19:51:28 -0700
>Subject: Punch Biopsy/Involuntary Sampling Ottawa Feb-03

>The gentleman who sent me the following report and photos is a
>very credible person. Also there is information I cannot and
>will not make available on this case. Plus the person this case
>relates to will remain anonymous. The photos of the marking on
>the man's left wrist will be posted on both of my sites. As more
>information comes in I will be posting the updates to my site.

>As always, I would like to thank the person for sending me the
>information and pictures.

>-----

>Ottawa, Ontario
>Canada

>Date: First week of February, 2003

>Brian,

>Something kind of interesting happened in the first week of Feb.
>2003. I had gone to bed around midnight and woke up at 08:00.
>Upon waking I found a small roundish scoop mark on my left
>wrist, characteristics were as follows:

>1. About 1/8", two millimeters in diameter.

>2. The bottom of the wound is concave.

>3. There was no pain at all associated with the wound.

>4. The bottom of the wound was flecked with very small dots of
>blood.

>5. The bottom of the wound was slick and smooth as if it was
>cauterized.

>6. It looked as if it had been done just five minutes before I
>awoke.

>7. The wound took two months to heal and is now only visible
>using a jeweler's loupe.

>- There is nothing sharp near my bed that would cause a wound.

>- I know there was no wound on my wrist before hitting the sack
>because upon retiring I took off my watch and did not observe
>any blemish in the left wrist area.

>Thinking it had been a rather large insect bite, I went to a
>local Ottawa clinic. The doctor looked at it and said, why did
>you have that done? When I informed him how it had appeared, he
>became quiet and paused for a few moments, then said that the
>mark was from a procedure called a "punch biopsy" that appeared
>to be done by a left-handed individual using a laser scalpel-
>type device.

>The doctor said that he could not comment on this officially and
>recorded the reason for my visit on my file as an "insect bite".
>He also consulted a small notebook and gave me a URL stating
>that I could get more information. The doctor stated that this
>was the fourth or fifth case of what he called "involuntary
>sampling" and noted it appears to be an emerging phenomenon.

>The fact that this doctor had the URL handy is pretty
>interesting. BTW, I didn't question him further as he was
>uncomfortable.

>When I mentioned this to a friend he was at my front door within
>seconds of saying, "This I gotta see" and hanging up.

>Funny this stuff should happen to me now, I'm not a young kid at
>(age deleted) so why "they" would want to sample the DNA of an
>old fart is beyond me.

>Of the attached images, I took the dark image, while my friend
>took the rest.


Hello Brian, All,

Just to corroborate the post, above:

Over the years I have been contacted by four different
physicians who independently of each other have identified the
photos of the 'scoop marks' I have had posted at the old
Intruders Foundation website and now at AIC, as being the result
of a medical tissue gathering procedure known as a 'Punch
Biopsy'.

[ See: http://www.virtuallystrange.net/aic/pev1.htm ]

Three out of the four members of my immediate family unit have a
scoop mark/punch biopsy scar. None of us have ever had such a
test performed by any 'earthly' physician. Scoop marks are
fairly common among those reporting a lifetime of UFO occupant
abductions.


Regards,

John Velez

Webmaster A.I.C.
Former creator/webmaster of Budd Hopkins'
Intruders Foundation website






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 7

                             UFOs vs. The Bible

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 13:20:37 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 13:20:37 -0400
Subject:  UFOs vs. The Bible




Source: The Manila Bulletin - Philippines

http://www.mb.com.ph/news.php?search=yes&art=35601§=3&fname=OPED/2003-07/OE03070
535601f.txt

07-05-2003

The UFO Craze
Nelly F. Villafuerte

The UFO phenomenon has again been generating a lot of curiosity
and interest - especially in other countries. Providing good
copy to attract media attention, scientific research and even
congressional investigations. Unlike in the yesteryears,
sophisticated tools of modern science are now being used to
unravel the mystery of UFOs. Like remote sensing technologies
and modern archaeological forensic science.

UFO (UFOs) is the acronym for unidentified flying objects. Also
referred to by many as extraterrestrials, extraterrestrial
beings, space visitors, or alien beings. The word ufologist has
now been coined to refer to somebody who is a real UFO buff and
is very serious in documenting and recording everything about
UFO encounters. Believe it or not, there are even UFO
organizations today the main agenda of which is to record UFO
sightings and everything related to UFOs.

Are UFOs really out there? Where do they come from - from outer
space, inner space, or from within the bowels of the earth? Are
they lovable or loathsome? Do the UFOs really have the power to
"walk-in" our bodies as some people say? Were there UFO's during
the biblical times or even during the pre-historic times?

The most popular theory to explain the UFO phenomenon is the so-
called extraterrestrial hypothesis which simply states that UFOs
are spacecrafts sent here from the other inhabited worlds.
People have long fantasized that intelligent-non-human being
live in other planets. But the notion that these beings from
other planets are building machines to cross space to visit us
is something new. Just listening to UFO enthusiasts, devotees,
and dabblers talk about UFOs with much excitement especially
about the movies and television shows on UFOs makes one conclude
that this UFO mystery has penetrated our lives, whether we like
it or not.

The dilemma as to whether there are really aliens who have
landed in our biosphere, or to use a more descriptive phrase "in
our midst" has inspired people to use the print and broadcast
media including the Internet to arouse the senses of the public
to the fact that UFO stories are not a collection of lore and
myth but a reality. Other UFO fanatics even go to the extent of
saying that the UFOs have the supernatural power to "walk-in"
our bodies as well as in the bodies of other animals. But what
is scary is the theory of many UFO researchers and buffs that
UFOs or these aliens from space are so advanced spiritually and
technologically that they can clone our genes and they also feed
on humans, ala vampire style. This kind of UFO propaganda
definitely puts up human beings psychologically off balance. I
am referring to our mental and spiritual outlook. Of course, the
pervasive influence of our movies and televisions in
conditioning our minds to accept UFOs as well as to overwhelm us
of their supernatural power cannot be discounted.

Does biblical logic support the thesis that UFOs were created by
God? What the Holy Bible in the Book of Genesis, the first book
of the Old Testament of the Bible says is that "God created man
in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and
female He created them." (Genesis 1:27). From this biblical
verse, it is very clear that life on earth was created by our
Omnipotent and Almighty God. Our planet Earth as we know is only
a small part of the universe. While we know that the Earth is
the only planet where life exist - we cannot deny the fact that
ongoing scientific studies and researches are being conducted by
different countries to advance the theory that there might be a
planet out there where there is also life like in the earth. But
be it as is _ to date the divine act of creating man and woman
is something that has never been duplicated in any place of the
universe. The claim of many that UFOs are real, is indeed an
attempt to promote the thinking that the divine act of creating
human life has been duplicated. If not by God, who then created
the UFOs, if they really exist?

Ufologists - people who are real UFO buffs and who are very
serious in documenting and recording everything about UFO
encounters claim that the fact that hundreds of people have
reported sightings of UFOs (like having seen flying saucers land
in open fields while others say that they have actually seen
strange-looking people from outer-space) - have definitely
strengthened the theory that UFOs are real.

It is disturbing to note that stories about UFOs during these
end times are spreading wide and far. The curiosity of many,
including Bible-believing Christians, about UFOs has distracted
many from the biblical truths. What is alarming too is that,
there are so many deceptions going around slowly creeping into
our human consciousness giving credence to the supernatural
validation of UFOs sightings and close encounters. Obviously a
diversionary tactic of Satan and his evil cohorts to divert our
attention to Jesus and His Lordship.

People have always been attracted to search for the unknown. The
obsession of many to know more about the existence of UFOs is a
good example. The problem is that without the biblical
guidelines as the spiritual compass - this attraction to search
for the unknown can lead to disastrous consequences. As an
offshoot of this attraction to search for the unknown, cults and
occults that are inconsistent with the Holy Bible are born every
day.

Our God is a personal God. Bible-believing Christians believe
this without doubt. Not some kind of a cosmic IT or some kind of
force floating out there. God did not make us robots to compel
us to love and obey Him. God gave us a free will. This means
that we have a choice to love God or not.

Instead of spending so much time trying to unravel the mystery
of UFOs, why don't we spend time to know more about our living
God who created us and gave us life - by reading His Word, the
Holy Bible?

This column continues to give out copies of the Holy Bible for
free to those who cannot afford to buy their own copies. If
interested, please send your letter-request to Ms. Nelly Favis-
Villafuerte, 6th Floor, New Solid Building, 357 Sen. Gil Puyat
Ave., Makati City. Kindly mention if it is the Tagalog, English,
Cebuano, or Ilocano version that is preferred.

This column is also giving out for free a 42-page, 3x5 inch
booklet that briefly explains the basic of salvation as
presented in the Holy Bible. To those who are struggling as to
what the Holy Bible really says on how souls can be saved from
eternal damnation - please do not hesitate to write me and ask
for a copy of this booklet. Let us not forget the biblical verse
that says: "What profits a man if he gains the whole world and
loses his soul?" Have a joyful day!


[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 7

               CIA's Cover Blown? Make Up Something About UFOs

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 13:28:07 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 13:28:07 -0400
Subject: CIA's Cover Blown? Make Up Something About UFOs




Source: The New York Times

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/06/weekinreview/06WORD.html

07-06-03

Word For Word

The C.I.A.'s Cover Has Been Blown?
Just Make Up Something About UFOs

By Stephen Kinzer

The State Department recently issued a collection of previously
classified documents that shed new light on the Central
Intelligence Agency's role in the June 1954 coup in Guatemala
that ousted the president, Jacobo Arbenz Guzm=E1n. Mr. Arbenz had
clashed with the United Fruit Company, which for many years
exercised decisive influence in Guatemala, and the Eisenhower
administration feared that he was leading his country toward
Communism. The coup brought Col. Carlos Castillo Armas to power
and set off more than three decades of civil conflict and
repression in which hundreds of thousands of Guatemalans were
killed.

Here are excerpts from documents related to the coup plot, which
was code-named PBSUCCESS.

Telegram from C.I.A. headquarters to a C.I.A. station, whose
location remains classified, Jan. 26, 1952:

Hq. desires firm list top flight Communists whom new government
would desire to eliminate immediately in event of successful
anti-Communist coup.

Memorandum for the record, Sept. 18, 1953:

At 1500, 18 September 1953, a meeting was held at the office of
[Allen W. Dulles, the Director of Central Intelligence] to
discuss the present status of PBSUCCESS and to consider future
plans for this operation. . . . Cabell [Gen. Charles P. Cabell,
the agency's deputy director] stated that he concurred in
approval of the general plan but felt that the budget estimate
should be increased to $3,000,000 to provide more adequately for
contingencies. Mr. Dulles agreed.

Memorandum from Col. J. C. King, chief of the Western Hemisphere
division, C.I.A. Directorate of Operations, Sept. 25, 1953:

Tasks for Chief of Station, Guatemala

a. Controlled penetration of the Communist Party.

b. Controlled penetrations of the major labor unions.

c. Controlled penetrations in the major anti-Communist
organizations.

d. Controlled penetrations in the armed forces, or controlled
agents with access to current planning both in senior and junior
officer groups.

e. Controlled agents with access to high-level Guatemalan
Government political propaganda planning. . . .

The station will prepare a list of the 25 most dangerous
Communists and pro-Communists and attempt to gather data re
these targets which could be used for character
assassination..... More pictures of comparisons of living
conditions of the top Commies and the peons will be of special
value.

Memorandum for the record, Oct. 29, 1953:

Station Guatemala has been directed to take the following
actions:

1. Transmit all rumors re Arbenz officials, the Guatemalan Army,
revolutionary activities and Communist activities.

2. Prepare a weekly "psychological barometer" report on local
conditions.

3. Make a continuing study of morale factors among students,
laborers, army officers, enlisted men, government officials,
farm owners, and business and professional men. . . .

Paramilitary Action: An initial shipment of approximately 15
tons of arms and ammunition is now ready for shipment from
[DELETED] and subsequent transshipment to [Colonel Castillo
Armas in] Nicaragua. . . . This material is intended for use by
[Colonel Castillo Armas] in his Nicaraguan training center and
to test facilities for clandestine introduction of arms into
Guatemala.

Memorandum from C.I.A. headquarters, Nov. 5, 1953:

Station was instructed to mail "mourning cards" for 30
successive days to Arbenz and top Communist leaders. Cards were
to mourn the purge or execution of various Communists in the
world and to hint forthcoming doom to recipients.

Telegram from PBSUCCESS headquarters in Florida to C.I.A.
headquarters, Jan. 30, 1954:

White Paper [issued by the Guatemalan government] has
effectively exposed certain aspects of PBSUCCESS . . . If
possible, fabricate big human interest story, like flying
saucers, birth sextuplets in remote area to take play away.

Memorandum for the record, March 2, 1954, from Colonel King:

At 1910 on 28 February, I picked [Pseudonym] up in my car at the
corner of Massachusetts and Wisconsin. We drove for about an
hour out River Road and I am certain were not observed.
[Pseudonym] expressed his regrets for the compromise of the five
paraphrased cables, and in a manner which appeared to be
entirely sincere. I asked him how it was possible, with all of
the security indoctrination which he had had, plus the great
emphasis on secrecy based on all phases of PBSUCCESS, to have
done such an unpardonable thing as to leave sensitive papers in
a hotel room. He replied that he had no explanation, that it was
a stupid, unpardonable thing to do, but that it was an act of
thoughtlessness and carelessness. . . . It was agreed that for
the next month [Pseudonym] will remain in Chicago. We discussed
two general areas where he could bury himself after that date _
Alaska and the Pacific Northwest . . . He has never been in the
Northwest and suggested as a possibility that he get a job until
fall as a fire watcher on a mountain top where he would meet
very few people.

Memorandum from PBSUCCESS headquarters to C.I.A. station in
Guatemala, Apr. 28, 1954:

Consider it highly important to mobilize anti-Communist
activities of the Catholic Church dignitaries and of Catholic
lay organizations. . . . This could be done, for instance, by
describing graphically how the local church would be turned into
a meeting hall for the "Fighting Godless," how the reader's
children would have to spend their time with the "Red Pioneers,"
how the pictures of Lenin, Stalin and Malenkov would replace the
pictures of the Saints in every home, and the like.

Dispatch from PBSUCCESS headquarters to all PBSUCCESS stations,
June 13, 1954:

Rumors, combining fact and fiction, which ought to be
circulated, may include the following (not every rumor is
applicable to every group of people and to every situation;
select from the following suggestions whatever is suitable for
given moment and audience):

A group of Soviet commissars, officers and political advisers,
led by a member of the Moscow Politbureau, have landed. . . .
The government has issued an order devaluating the quetzal at
the rate of 1:10. Use your money immediately to buy food and
durable goods. . . . In addition to military conscription, the
Communists will introduce labor conscription. A decree is
already being printed. All boys and girls 16 years old will be
called for one year of labor duty in special camps, mainly for
political indoctrination and to break the influence of family
and church on the young people. . . . Food rationing is about to
be introduced. . . . Arbenz has already left the country. His
announcements from the National Palace are actually made by a
double, provided by Soviet intelligence. . . . An educational
reform is being prepared. There will be no longer any religious
instruction at state expense, but on the contrary lessons in
atheism, Soviet style.

Add rumors of your own, following the day-by-day changes in the
situation.

Telegram From C.I.A. headquarters to PBSUCCESS headquarters,
June 24, 1954:

We now prepared authorize bombing specific targets in [Guatemala
City] area since you and [John E. Puerifoy, the American
ambassador to Guatemala] feel this now the most effective move
to achieve success. Targets should be selected with a view to
having desired effect on army and regime morale with minimum
political cost to [the United States].

Telegram from C.I.A. headquarters to PBSUCCESS headquarters,
June 30, 1954:

Heartiest congratulations upon outcome developments past forty-
eight hours. A great victory has been won.


[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 7

                   Monument Commemorates Roswell UFO Crash

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 13:42:09 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 13:42:09 -0400
Subject: Monument Commemorates Roswell UFO Crash





Source: KOB-TV - Albuquerque, New Mexico

http://kobtv.com/index.cfm?viewer=storyviewer&id=2620&cat=HOME

07-07-2003

Monument Commemorates Roswell UFO Crash

By: Associated Press

(Roswell-AP) -- A monument on a rocky hilltop about 65 miles
north of Roswell commemorates the spot where something fell from
the sky in 1947.

More than 20 people gathered Saturday to dedicate the stone
monument.

The director of Roswell's UFO museum, Julie Shuster, says it's a
tribute to the people who came forward to report what they saw
in the fields north of the city more than a half century ago.

Some believe an alien spacecraft crash-landed at the site.

A film crew from the Sci-Fi Channel was on hand to tape the
event.

The dedication was among the events during the annual UFO
festival, which draws thousands of true believers and curious
onlookers each year.


Copyright 2003 by The Associated Press

[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 7

                             Another UFO Excuse?

From: GT McCoy  <gtmccoy@charter.net>
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 08:32:26 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 13:44:58 -0400
Subject: Another UFO Excuse?


Tier-3 Derived UAV - Aviation week

Hello All,

Found this story interesting, who knows, the birth of another
UFO excuse?

http://www.aviationnow.com/avnow/news/channel_awst_story.jsp?id=news/07073news.x
ml


GT McCoy







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 7

                     Conventioneers Share Alien Theories

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 14:02:07 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 14:02:07 -0400
Subject: Conventioneers Share Alien Theories




Source: The Detroit Free Press

http://www.freep.com/news/locway/nufo7_20030707.htm

07-07-03

Conventioneers Share Alien Theories

Dearborn discussion is UFOs, crop circles

By Zlati Meyer
Free Press Staff Writer

While millions of Americans were enjoying traditional July 4
weekend amusements, a few hundred of them took part in that
Earthling pasttime -- discussing alien lifeforms.

They swapped Thomas Jefferson for the Mutual UFO Network's 34th
Annual International conference held at the Hyatt Hotel in
Dearborn from Friday through Sunday.

Jay Benson traveled from Atlanta to attend. The 40-year-old IT
consultant, quoting his favorite lecturer Neil Freer, said the
aliens who "jump-started our DNA," the Annunaki, wanted to make
humans a slave race to mine gold for Annunaki leaders living on
planet Nibiru.

The attendees were believers - and those who wanted to hear the
facts about other-worldly visitors. Audience members included an
Oakland County psychologist and an aspiring police officer.

"I think it's real; I think things are out there," said Jerry
Beekel, 53, a steel-foundry worker from Pittsford, near
Hillsdale, who was wearing a UFO-emblazoned T-shirt. "Anyone who
believes in God believes He made things other than man. I
believe there's a cover-up."

Beekel's comment coincided with a speech entitled, "Cosmic
Watergate," by presenter Stanton Friedman.

Friedman suggested that a directive to "get the heck off our
planet" made President Richard Nixon nix Apollos 18 and 19.
Friedman hypothesized that aliens come to Earth to monitor their
"neighbors," whom he described "as idiot Earthlings," who killed
thousands of their own in World War II and created destructive
atom bombs, V2 rockets and radars.

"They make sure we don't get out there. Would you want us out
there? We don't even have someone to speak for the planet. Would
aliens want us in an intergalactic agency?" Friedman asked his
audience.

Lecturers filled their well-attended talks with pseudo-science
theories such as the existence of a magnetic-propulsion system
that could move saucer-shaped vehicles, and that the star over
Bethlehem the Bible says shone on the night Jesus was born was
likely a UFO.

The convention program listed dozens of Ph.Ds as MUFON
consultants, but Bruce Maccabee, who has a doctorate in physics
from American University, was the only person with an advanced
degree presenting.

Crop-formations expert William C. Levengood's bio didn't list
any academic credential. In his lecture, Levengood explained,
"Energies come down in very precise patterns and penetrate the
soil. The soil changes properties - I won't get into that -
which, in turn, enhances the seeds."

His multimedia presentation included aerial photographs of the
mysterious formations, pictures of flies "not associated with
wheat plants" on the same plants, pieces of corn that germinated
before their husks open and burned kernels next to untouched
ones.

In a makeshift marketplace down the hall, vendors hawked books
and remote-viewing training sessions on video for $110.

Other items included an audiotape titled "How the War on Terror
Interrupted ET Contact;" 144 pages of newspaper and magazine
articles about mind-control for $22; a music CD subtitled "A
Soundtrack to My Abduction," and a children's picture book to
introduce the concept of extraterrestrials.

And even on this holiday weekened when Americans rejoice in
freedom from royal rulership, the King made an appearance. The
book "Elvis' Search for God" shared tablespace with a Tennessee
accountant's memoir of her abductions.

Tony Sivalelli runs the Weight Station gym in Mt. Clemens.

"I don't think people are ready for the bigger picture, for
understanding," he said.

Contact ZLATI MEYER at 734-432-6503 or meyer@freepress.com


[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 7

                Re: UFO Conference in Halifax, Nova Scotia -

From: Charlette LeFevre <clefevre@oz.net>
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 09:56:28 -0700 (MST)
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 14:13:58 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Conference in Halifax, Nova Scotia -


>From: Michel M. Deschamps <ufoman@ican.net>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 01:20:47 -0400
>Subject: Re: UFO Conference in Halifax, Nova Scotia

>I also "believe" or feel that mutilations are directly connected
>to UFO occupants... regardless of what anybody says..... And
>despite Linda Howe's poor judgment of the Brazil hoax, her work
>on mutilations is second-to-none in the field and reinforce the
>idea that aliens are involved in these gruesome attacks/
>slaughters.

>I'd love to read your material... or even try to purchase any
>interview you might hqave done with radio or TV crews.....


Dear Michel,

"...despite Linda Howe's poor judgment"? How about "in lieu of"?
There are hundreds of cattle mutilation investigators in the
field besides Linda Moulton Howe.

Realize, the Brazil case is seriously demonstrating how Linda
has compromised her reports and its scientific analysis. Even
her own analysts have been commenting on her slant. Any future
reports therefore have to be seriously considered also as
slanted. Hardly a courtesy to the integrity of the field
regardless of anyone's beliefs of how mutilations occur. If you
think the public doesn't recognize this, think again.

Fern is recognized by the UFOBC group at www.ufobc.ca where he
has his reports posted. As a cattle expert familiar with
anatomy, behavior and breeding of cattle this gives Fern an
advantage over other investigators in researching a mutilation
scene. This can also be advantageous when it comes to
investigating a scene quickly as he has the trust of ranchers,
the industry and the International UFO community.

I personally think its very important we recognize even more so
now ground level reports from experts in the field and I will
take Fern's cattle rancher's mutilation report over Linda's
anyday.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 7

                        Re: UFOs vs. The Bible - Carr

From: Scott Carr <sardy_2000@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 10:42:48 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 14:20:42 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs vs. The Bible - Carr


>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>To: - UFO - UpDates Subscribers -
>Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 13:20:37 -0400
>Subject: UFO UpDate: UFOs vs. The Bible


>Source: The Manila Bulletin - Philippines

http://www.mb.com.ph/news.php?search=yes&art=35601§=3&fname=OPED/2003-07/OE03070
535601f.txt

>07-05-2003

>The UFO Craze
>Nelly F. Villafuerte


Yes, the "UFO craze," as Nelly so aptly phrases it, is nearly as
widespread and far-reaching as the bizarre "omnipotent god"
craze.....

--Scott C. Carr
The Flying Saucer Gazette
www.arols.com/sardonica
www.apocalypsefiction.com





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 7

                        Italian UFO Newsflash No. 400

From: Edoardo Russo <e.russo@cisu.org>
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 18:59:38 +0200
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 14:22:25 -0400
Subject: Italian UFO Newsflash No. 400


ITALIAN UFO NEWSFLASH

ISSUE NO. 400 -  5 JULY 2003

by the Italian Center for UFO Studies
(Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici, CISU)


- A Missile Or A UFO Buzzes A Plane Over Benevento?
- 27 September: CISU Conference In Viterbo
- A New Book On "Close Encounters Of The Fourth Kind"


A MISSILE OR A UFO BUZZES A PLANE OVER BENEVENTO?

A plane in flight was allegedly buzzed by a missile-shaped
object over the city of Benevento.

This was the report made to authorities by the commander of a
Alpi Eagles Fokker 100 which, at around 8 p.m. on Wednesday, 25
June, was set to land in Naples with 80 passengers coming from
Palermo, when the commander called the control tower to report
having observed a strange and large, elongated "missile-like"
object, coming towards him from the opposite direction and
passing very close underneath the plane.

The alarm involved ENAV (the National Flight Assistance Agency),
ENAC (Civil Aviation National Agency), ANSV (Flight Security
National Agency), the Ministry of Transportation Services, and
the First Minister Crisis Unit, featuring the activation of the
usual security procedures.

In the report drafted the following day, the commander described
an "unidentified flying object" approaching him at an altitude
of approximately 8000 feet: it was cylindrical in form, 3 to 4
meters in length, white in color, and reflected the sun rays.
The object, observed by both pilots, was reportedly not detected
by radar systems; for security reasons, however, the state
prosecutor in Naples opened an investigation and confiscated the
radar recordings and the tape recordings of dialogue between the
aircraft and the control tower.

[Il Giornale, 27, 28 and 29 June 2003; UFO-Italia, 27 to 29
June; collaboration by Renzo Cabassi and Antonio Cuccu]


27 SEPTEMBER:
CISU CONFERENCE IN VITERBO

The last weekend of September in Viterbo will be the setting for
the 18th National Ufology Congress, organized as in every year
by the Italian Center for UFO Studies.

In fact, CISU executive board accepted the Viterbo branch as a
proposed host for this year's edition of the most enduring
Italian UFO conference, which will also be open to the public
and - for the first time  - viewable over the Internet in real-
time, as well.

This initiative will be part of the local "Viterbo September"
manifestations and its title will be: "On Things Seen in the
Sky: the Study of UFO Phenomena". More detailed information will
be forthcoming.

[Il Messaggero, Viterbo Edition, 18 June; collaboration by
Angelo Ferlicca and Gildo Persone']


A NEW BOOK ON "CLOSE ENCOUNTERS
OF THE FOURTH KIND"

A new Italian book has come out that is devoted to
UFO abduction cases.

It's entitled "Close Encounters of the Fourth Kind  -
 Investigations of Alien Abductions, 1947-2001  - From the
Clones of Higgins to the Monselice Incident"; it's penned by
Gianfranco Degli Esposti and it is published by Editioriale
Olimpia.

The volume totals 224 pages and costs 16 Euro.

[Enigma mailing list, 23 June; UFO Notiziario, June]


Collaborators on this edition were: Renzo Cabassi, Antonio
Cuccu, Angelo Ferlicca and Gildo Person=E8.

- - -

This is the English translation of UFOTEL, a free phone/Internet
information service on UFOs edited weekly by  Edoardo Russo for
the Italian Center for UFO Studies (Centro Italiano Studi
Ufologici), available in Italian by calling +39-011-545294, or
by e-mail subscription, or on CISU website at
http://www.arpnet.it/ufo/ultime.htm

UFOTEL is a supplement to "UFO - Rivista di
informazione ufologica", published by the Italian
Center for UFO Studies, registered at Tribunale
di Torino,  No. 3670, on 19 June 1986.
Director: Giovanni Settimo.
Publisher: Cooperativa UPIAR, Corso Vittorio
Emanuele 108, 10121 Turin, Italy

Translated from Italian to English by:
Gary J. Presto,
Freelance Italian>English Translator & Proofreader
44 Bickford Ave., Apt. 2
Revere, MA 02151
USA

Tel.: ++1.781.485.1683
FAX: ++1.781.485.1684
E-mail: gpresto@comcast.net
Webpage: http://www.proz.com/translator/723



- - -

(c) 2003 by: CISU,
Corso Vittorio Emanuele 108,  10121 Torino, Italia

This newsletter (as a whole or in part) may be freely copied,
photocopied, reproduced, stored, distributed and retrieved, at
the only condition that Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici is
reported as the source.

You may get it directly via e-mail by subscribing (just send a
blank message to: cisuflash-subscribe@yahoogroups.com)

The CISU is a no-profit association whose aims are:
- to promote the scientific study of UFO phenomena in Italy;
- to help circulate information about UFO phenomena and studies;
- to coordinate national activities of data collecting and studying.

You may reach Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici:
- by mail: CISU, Corso Vittorio Emanuele 108, 10121 Torino, Italia
- by phone: +39 (011) 30.78.63 (24 hours UFO Hotline)
- by fax: +39 (011) 54.50.33
- by Internet e-mail: cisu@ufo.it
- at the World Wide Web URL: http://www.cisu.org






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 7

                          Secrecy News -- 07/07/03

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:09:50 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 14:24:14 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 07/07/03


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2003, Issue No. 57
July 7, 2003


**      ISRAEL'S NUCLEAR WEAPONS AT ISSUE
**      INADVERTENT DISCLOSURES OF CLASSIFIED INFO
**      FOIA: WHERE WE ARE TODAY
**      SPOTLIGHT ON FREEDOM OF INFORMATION


ISRAEL'S NUCLEAR WEAPONS AT ISSUE

Controversy over Israel's reported nuclear weapons program
erupted briefly on the floor of the Knesset, Israel's
parliament, last week, when a Palestinian Arab Knesset member,
Isam Makhoul, raised the sensitive issue, citing the FAS web
site.

"The Federation of American Scientists site notes that Israel
has nuclear weapons stored in the Haifa Bay area, on Mount
Elabon in the Galilee, and in Kefar Zekharya near Bet Shemesh.
Are these facts correct?" asked MK Makhul.

"Israel will not be the first to introduce nuclear weapons to
the Middle East," replied Minister Gideon Ezra, employing the
standard Israeli government formulation.

"Israel endorses the principle of nuclear non-proliferation," he
said.  At the same time, he added, the Nuclear Nonproliferation
Treaty "does not provide an adequate response to the reality
that prevails in our region, as demonstrated in the past by Iraq
and today by the case of Iran."

See "Arab MK Quotes US Source on Israel's Nuclear Program" by
Haim Shibi, Yediot Aharonot, July 3, translated with some
apparent errors (e.g. Gideon Ezra's last name) by the CIA's
Foreign Broadcast Information Service, here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2003/07/ya070303.html

A transcript of the July 2 Knesset debate on Israel's non-
conventional weapons (in Hebrew) is posted here:

http://www.4law.co.il/Le732.htm

Israel's nuclear programs were described, for example, in this
1995 published report of the Russian Foreign Intelligence
Service (SVR):

http://www.fas.org/irp/threat/svr_nuke.htm#israel


INADVERTENT DISCLOSURES OF CLASSIFIED INFO

The Department of Energy has released its latest quarterly
report on inadvertent disclosures of classified information.

"As a result of the Department of Energy's examination of
approximately 860,000 additional pages of publicly available
records accessioned by the National Archives and Records
Administration, the Department discovered an additional 90
documents containing 261 pages of RD and FRD [i.e., classified
nuclear weapons information] which were inadvertently released."
See:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/doe/inadvertent10.html


FOIA: WHERE WE ARE TODAY

A broad selection of current topics in U.S. Freedom of
Information Act (FOIA) policy was explored in a Justice
Department conference for government FOIA officers last week.

The topics included the Ashcroft FOIA memorandum of October
2001, the March 2002 White House memorandum on safeguarding
information on weapons of mass destruction, the Homeland
Security Act FOIA exemption for critical infrastructure
information, amendments to the national security order on
classification, last year's FOIA amendment blocking foreign
government requests for intelligence records, and discussion of
the first judicial rulings on public access to homeland security
information.

These matters are outlined, with appropriate links, here:

http://www.usdoj.gov/oip/foiapost/2003foiapost25.htm

The National Security Archive has published an updated reader on
FOIA with historical background, how-to resources and "an
itemized list of 20 significant news stories from the last 18
months that cited documents obtained through the Freedom of
Information Act." See:

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB93/


SPOTLIGHT ON FREEDOM OF INFORMATION

"Long before the events of Sept. 11, 2001 provided it with a
convenient catchall excuse for hiding its actions from public
scrutiny, ours was a government enamored with classification for
classification's sake," according to Charles N. Davis, executive
director of the Freedom of Information Center at the University
of Missouri School of Journalism.

See his op-ed, "Bush administration most secretive since King
George," in the Contra Costa Times, July 5:

http://www.bayarea.com/mld/cctimes/news/opinion/6238758.htm

The article is part of a new series intended to advance the
cause of freedom of information published by the Knight
Ridder/Tribune News Service.  It features weekly "opinion pieces
that are available free of charge to all newspapers, including
those that do not subscribe to the KRT News Service."

See "Spotlight on Freedom of Information" here:

http://www.krtdirect.com/public/FOI.htm



_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood@fas.org
voice:  (202) 454-4691






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 7

                  Re: STS-48 Time Tags Explained - Corbett

From: Daniel Corbett <dannycorbett@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 13:25:02 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 14:25:43 -0400
Subject: Re:  STS-48 Time Tags Explained - Corbett


To Lan and/or other knowledgable people,

I am trying to get my reference points.

Some reports seem to state that the STS 'belly' was in the
direction of motion.

Based on Oberg's STS-48 timeline data for the period, it lists
the attitude of STS-48 during the period of orbit 44 to be -
ZLV+YVV (BIAS).

I realize that this timeline shows the planned attitudes and not
necessarily the as-flown ones.

Isn't -ZLV with the payload bay facing to Earth?  And isn't +YVV
with the Starboard wing in the velocity vector?

Isn't the camera used "C" which is the Starboard Aft payload bay
camera?

Does anyone know if the "bias" in the attitude significant at
that time?










   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 7

                    Re: A Very Ambitious Project - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:25:27 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 14:34:19 -0400
Subject: Re: A Very Ambitious Project - Kaeser


>From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 13:59:50 -0500
>Subject: Re: A Very Ambitious Project

>>From: Daniel Guenther <daniel_g@t-online.de>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 20:19:11 +0200
>>Subject: Re: A Very Ambitious Project

<snip>

>>I suspect feedback concerning this project was not too great
>>unfortunately, at least there was none on this List.

>>I, for myself speaking, am greatly interested in collecting UFO
>>data in digital form.

>One of the major problems will be co-operation from ufologists
>and researchers.

<snip>

I think a greater problem is going to be the process used to
verify the data as accurate and genuine, which is one of the
reasons that many researchers don't want to lose control of
their information and perhaps taint their own reputation.

While some sort of global database is a noble idea, the actual
implementation presents a number of difficult challenges, and
not all of them are technical. In my opinion there's one group
(which I will leave un-named) that has information that is so
tainted that I wouldn't trust anything associated with them. If
their information ended up in such a database, I'd have to
question the validity of everything it contains.

An organized collection of verified data would be most useful to
researchers, but another unverified collection of data would,
IMO, not be. This is a difficult problem, and one that's been
discussed periodically on UFO Updates for a number of years.


Steve









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 7

                        Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Evans

From: Chris Evans <chrisevans@zoominternet.net>
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:32:19 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 18:49:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Evans


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 10:31:32 -0400
>Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants'

I feel there is a certain misnomer we might discuss, when it
comes to such questions as, Does the material from an alleged
artifact or 'implant' come from some other world? In other
words, What precept determines that potential implements to be
used by ETs should necessarily "have to come from another
planet." For instance, I live on the East coast. If I were
moving to California and have planned to build a house there, I
would not, in the same token, haul stacks of 2 x 4s and roofing
shingles 1000s of miles across the country; but, would simply
acquire them when I get there. Shouldn't ETs be considered
bright enough to do this also? There are, after all, over 100
basic elements to mix, match, and choose from, here on
earth.....

>I see no need for Dr. Leir to cut any more abductees unless he
>has evidence that one or several of the objects that he has
>already recovered are of extraterrestrial origin. So far, there
>has been no report of any such object(s) having been recovered
>by anyone, anywhere.

This is the sort of point that I had panned to make in my book,
in relation to the "metal samples" covered by Art Bell, Linda
Howe, etc., while compared to what was claimed about metal
samples, back in the 40s. However, no one answered my requests
for permission to quote, so the material was dropped from the
book. But the point is this: There is a great misconception that
says, "If samples are not exotic and seemingly otherworldly,
then they cannot - therefore - be used by ETs.

While I understand and certainly appreciate John's take, and
point, I feel this sort of misnomer needs addressed. That is,
Who has determined this to be a default rule, that the presence
of 'earthly' materials, thus, excludes their possible use by
ETs?


Kind Regards

Chris Evans

Alien Conpsiracy: Unraveling the UFO/Alien Mystery
http://www.geocities.com/chrisb_evans/vs-implant.html







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 7

                     Re: Rendlesham UFO 'Hoax' - Stedman

From: Gary Stedman <Gary.Stedman@btopenworld.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:57:57 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 18:55:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Rendlesham UFO 'Hoax' - Stedman


Dear Subscribers,

Being a aviation enthusiast who lives a stones throw from the
former USAFE bases at Bentwaters/Woodbridge I have followed this
long running saga ever since it first became public - without
jumping into either the 'believer' or 'sceptic' camp. Although
not central to whatever events did happen in December 1980, one
particular overlooked issue has concerned me for years. As many
of the researchers/writers are active on this list perhaps they
could offer any information to this point.

The so called 'nuclear weapons area' at Bentwaters has cropped
up many times in this case. While it goes without saying that
this area exists (Ms. Bruni's book covers this in detail and
locals were aware of its location). I wonder if anybody's
investigation has uncovered as to what would have been held in
this area at the time of the incident, or even if anything
actually was. The reason I suggest this is that aviation units
operating out of the twin bases at that time where not nuclear
capable (81st TFW and 67th ARRS).

Ironically enough, the 81st TFW was assigned a dedicated nuclear
strike role when operating F-101C Voodoos between 1959-66. These
heavy strike fighters, un-wanted by the USAF at home, were
un-loaded onto the 81st for one purpose only, the delivery of a
single 1 MT nuclear weapon against Warsaw Pact installations
across the East/West border - the Voodoos were not expected to
return from these missions. I have no idea when the much
discussed nuclear weapons area was constructed at Bentwaters,
but it would appear to be logical to expect it to have been
built at around this time - although I have no evidence to
suggest that.

At the time of the UFO incident the 81st Tactical Fighter Wing
consisted of six squadrons of A-10A Thunderbolt II aircraft,
divided between the two bases, four to Bentwaters, two at
Woodbridge. The Wing had a nominal strength of over a 100
airframes (although it was not, as stated in some books the
largest Fighter Wing in the USAF - not even close). Although
numbers were hard to get hold of, a good percentage of these
were forward deployed to West Germany at up to six Forward
Operating Locations, mainly GAF bases. If the expected Warsaw
Pact armoured assault across the border had actually happened,
the 81st's A-10s would have deployed - en masse - to Germany,
their radius of action precluding sorties being flown from
Suffolk.

This brings me to my main point. The Fairchild A-10A was
designed with just one role in mind - Close Air Support (CAS).
Having realised that its obsession with fast and expensive
fighters was winning it no friends in the US Army, the USAF -
after Vietnam - realised it needed a dedicated CAS aircraft,
and the slow but well armoured A-10 was the winning design. A
CAS aircraft conducts strikes just beyond the Forward Edge Of
The Battle Area (forget Hollywood, even CAS is conducted on
targets not closely engaged with your forces - 'blue on blue').
For this the A-10 mounted 11 hardpoints for freefall iron bombs,
Cluster Bomb Units, Maverick Anti-Armour missiles and
self-defense equipment (AIM-9 air-to-air missiles and electronic
counter measures pods).

The A-10A has never had a nuclear strike role, the aircraft is
not wired for any of the freefall nuclear weapons in the US
arsenal, and does not possess the software and avionics for this
role, neither are the crews trained for it. During its career
the aircraft has recieved only minimal upgrading, and the USAF
has attempted to retire the complete fleet at least once (half
of the over 700 built have already been retired to Davis-Monthan
anyway).

So if the nuclear storage area at Bentwaters was active in 1980
what was stored there? The 48th (T)FW at Lakenheath did - and
may still - have a nuclear strike capability, perhaps the
weapons were dispersed to other nearby installations. There is a
precedent for this within RAF bases in East Anglia. The RAF's
freefall nuclear bomb (the WE177, now retired and on display in
several museums) was believed to be stored in a special weapons
area at RAF Honington, Suffolk, even though the base operated
the Tornado GR-1 in the conventional weapons training role for
most of its later life, the operational squadrons were brief
tenants before moving to other bases. RAF Marham in Norfolk did
have a requirement for 'special' weapons, its squadrons being
fully capable of nuclear delivery. Dispersal of the WE177
amongst various East Anglian bases appears logical, although
whenever the USAF operated in this manner with its weapons is
pure speculation on my part.

Perhaps some of the many researchers looking at the Rendlesham
case have chanced upon information that has not been previously
recorded and can help?


Gary Stedman
Suffolk
UK






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 7

                     Re: A Very Ambitious Project - Beau

From: Jerome Beau <jbeau@noos.fr>
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 23:05:12 +0200
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 18:59:55 -0400
Subject: Re: A Very Ambitious Project - Beau


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:25:27 -0400
>Subject: Re: A Very Ambitious Project

>I think a greater problem is going to be the process used to
>verify the data as accurate and genuine, which is one of the
>reasons that many researchers don't want to lose control of
>their information and perhaps taint their own reputation.

Hello Steve and all List Members,

Thanks a lot Steven. This is exactly what I expect from the
ufological community - help in identifying the problems that may
raised by such a product, so we can find a solution and avoid
them.

And this is a real problem indeed. My opinion is that RR0 IS is
a tool, and so is not intended to evaluate the data. Your wooden
house is not built by your hammer, is it built by you. All you
need is the best hammer.

However RR0 IS intend to give you all the technical means for
evaluating and selecting the data according to your own
evaluation rules.

For example you are free to build your own classification
function named "MyAccuracyFunction" or
"MyOrganizationAccuracyRules", which may basically states "all
cases that had physical traces and more than 10 witnesses", or
anything you want that can target an aspect of the RR0
Information Model (this why well designing that ufology
information model is important and needs ufologists).

>While some sort of global database is a noble idea, the actual
>implementation presents a number of difficult challenges, and
>not all of them are technical. In my opinion there's one group
>(which I will leave un-named) that has information that is so
>tainted that I wouldn't trust anything associated with them. If
>their information ended up in such a database, I'd have to
>question the validity of everything it contains.

I perfectly understand that, as well as I understand that such a
group might not want to follow your rules as well. This is why
any people or organization shall be able to filter the whole
data using their own criteria (what we call "functions" in RR0
IS).

>An organized collection of verified data would be most useful
>to researchers, but another unverified collection of data would,
>IMO, not be. This is a difficult problem, and one that's been
>discussed periodically on UFO Updates for a number of years.

I agree. In my opinion, as the time goes, and as the system will
be more and more used, only a limited number of functions will
remain popular. One could even built a function that relies on
referees aggrement on a given case, or even represent a filter
conforming with the "three most popular classifications", and so
on.

Hope this helped,

    Jerome.






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 7

                    Re: A Very Ambitious Project - Groff

From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 16:27:16 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 19:01:04 -0400
Subject: Re: A Very Ambitious Project - Groff


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
>Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:25:27 -0400
>Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 14:34:19 -0400
>Subject: Re: A Very Ambitious Project - Kaeser

>>From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 13:59:50 -0500
>>Subject: Re: A Very Ambitious Project

>>>From: Daniel Guenther <daniel_g@t-online.de>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>>Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 20:19:11 +0200
>>>Subject: Re: A Very Ambitious Project

<snip>

>>>I suspect feedback concerning this project was not too great
>>>unfortunately, at least there was none on this List.

>>>I, for myself speaking, am greatly interested in collecting UFO
>>>data in digital form.

>>One of the major problems will be co-operation from ufologists
>>and researchers.

<snip>

>I think a greater problem is going to be the process used to
>verify the data as accurate and genuine, which is one of the
>reasons that many researchers don't want to lose control of
>their information and perhaps taint their own reputation.

Hi Steve,

Excellent points.

I think a major goal of RR0 IS is not to consolidate databases
but rather to make the various databases available via a single
application/interface.

Accessing a particular database would be entirely up to the
user. Once accessed, a user would be able to perform their own
analysis of the data they've acquired, then make that analysis
immediately available to other researchers through the same
application. The individual databases themselves would remain
intact and unspoiled.


Terry









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 7

                        Michigan & Extraterrestrials?

From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 19:09:01 -0300
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 19:05:22 -0400
Subject: Michigan & Extraterrestrials?


Dear Friends,

Is this true?

"In Michigan, the state does not allow mention of flying saucers
or extraterrestrials on its test, because those subjects might
imply the forbidden topic of evolution".








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 7

                             The Roswell Grays?

From: Loren Coleman <lcolema1@maine.rr.com>
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 18:20:15 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 19:10:51 -0400
Subject: The Roswell Grays?


I am a member of the Society for American Baseball Research and
I thought you might be interested in this partial exchange from
their list-serve. The dual meaning, for those that know about
the Homestead Grays, in naming a team the Roswell Grays, is
quite clever, if not a little obvious to those of us aware of
the UFO literature. :-)


Loren

-----

Date:  Wed, 2 Jul 2003 14:41:54 -0700
From:  Jules Tygiel <xxxxx>
Subject: Re: Roswell and Baseball

On Tue, 1 Jul 2003, Loren Coleman wrote:

>It's a country ball field. Two minor league teams are shown
>playing. The Southwest All Stars, and a Negro League type team,
>the Roswell Grays. The location and date are identified by this
>coming on the screen: ROSWELL, NEW MEXICO JULY 2, 1947

>Then a little later on this episode of the X-Files, "The
>Unnatural,"

<snip>

>My question for the SABR crew: Is there any reality to the
>names of the two teams: the Southwest All Stars, and the
>AfricanAmerican team, the Roswell Grays?

Duchovny actually wrote this episode and he clearly had some
knowledge of baseball history. The African-American/alien
slugger was pursuing a single-season home run record. The old
pre-Bonds record of 72 home runs was set by Joe Baumann who
played for Roswell in 1954. Roswell of course is the site of
the most famous UFO [sighting] and Duchovny used this
coincidence as inspiration for the script.

There was also, I believe, an all-black team that played in a
southwestern minor league in the late 1940s or early 1950s

As to the names, I think Duchovny made them up, but the Grays
are clearly named for the Homestead Grays.

Jules Tygiel
Professor Of History
San Francisco State University

<snip>

http://bss.sfsu.edu/tygiel







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 7

                     Re: UFOs vs. The Bible - Stevenson

From: Colin Stevenson <colin@c2k2.fsworld.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 23:23:43 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 19:13:25 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs vs. The Bible - Stevenson


>From: Scott Carr <sardy_2000@yahoo.com>
>Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 10:42:48 -0700 (PDT)
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Subject: Re: UFOs vs. The Bible

>>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>To: - UFO - UpDates Subscribers -
>>Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 13:20:37 -0400
>>Subject: UFO UpDate: UFOs vs. The Bible


>>Source: The Manila Bulletin - Philippines

>http://www.mb.com.ph/news.php?search=yes&art=35601§=3&fname=OPED/2003-07/OE0307
0535601f.txt

>>07-05-2003

>>The UFO Craze
>>Nelly F. Villafuerte


>Yes, the "UFO craze," as Nelly so aptly phrases it, is nearly as
>widespread and far-reaching as the bizarre "omnipotent god"
>craze.....

>--Scott C. Carr
>The Flying Saucer Gazette
>www.arols.com/sardonica
>www.apocalypsefiction.com

Or to put it another way - where did God come from and where is
he/she/it now ? In Heaven. Heaven is in space so God is an E.T.
and Jesus is a Human/E.T. hybrid. Please point this out to these
Bible religious folk that their own 'good book' proves E.T.
exists and that E.T. is involved in Human/Alien hybridization
which most folk consider inadvisable and undesirable with some
even calling it 'the work of Satan'..

By the way - if we are made in Gods image then God looks like
Humans and not like a Gray!

Their logic extended.

If Biblical folk also say UFOs and ET are from Satan then they
call their own God Satanic because God and Jesus are E.T.

10 years after asking higher Biblical folk these questions I
still await an answer so if anyone can prove my observations
false, in a concise fashion, then please do so but please do not
email me direct.

Thanks List

--Colin Stevenson

ET cartoons
http://www.colsweb.com







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 7

             Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens - Pope

From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 00:45:25 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 19:49:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens - Pope


>From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 19:12:48 +0100
>Subject: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens

>Source: The Observer - UK

>Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens

>Paul Harris
>Sunday July 6, 2003
>The Observer

>They have been the subject of derision for claiming aliens have
>visited Earth from outer space, but believers in the existence
>of UFOs were this weekend excitedly poring over newly released
>military documents that show how fighter aircraft were scrambled
>to intercept strange shapes in Britain's skies.

>The secret papers obtained from the US military give an insight
>into an astonishing chain of events sparked by UFO sightings
>over East Anglia in 1956.

>After receiving numerous calls reporting bright lights darting
>across the sky, fighters from RAF Lakenheath spent more than
>seven hours trying to shoot down the objects, which were picked
>up on army radar screens.

Dave and List,

Whilst this is a fascinating case, I can assure you that there
was no question of any RAF aircraft trying to shoot down UFOs.

I was contacted by BBC Radio 5 Live after this story ran (I
didn't see it in my copy of The Observer, and believe it only
ran on the paper's website).  I did a brief down the line
interview with them, to set the record straight.


Best wishes,

Nick Pope






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 8

                       Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:56:37 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 00:05:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Kaeser


>From: Chris Evans <chrisevans@zoominternet.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:32:19 -0400
>Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants'

<snip>

>...But the point is this: There is a great misconception that
>says, "If samples are not exotic and seemingly otherworldly,
>then they cannot - therefore - be used by ETs.

Chris-

I think the point is that only samples that are "otherworldly"
(and I suppose we're talking about isotopes here) would be
indicative of visitation by ETs.  However, that would likely
have to be supported by other circumstances or evidence for wide
acceptance as "proof".  I've not heard anyone make the
suggestion that visitors from space (or elsewhere) would only
use exotic materials that cannot be found on Earth.

I'll have to agree with John that there's no reason to continue
cutting into people who have already become victimized, unless
they really feel the need to get the darn thing out.  Of course,
that's a decision to be reached between the Doctor and his
patient.

I'm sure this line of research will continue, and it will be
interesting to find out if some of the other samples that have
already been collected will yield better results.  Of course,
testing is expensive and it appears that NIDS has chosen to
utilize it's resources elsewhere.


Steve







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 8

                Re: Michigan & Extraterrestrials? - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 21:02:55 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 00:07:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Michigan & Extraterrestrials? - Balaskas


>From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
>To: UFO UpDates -Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 19:09:01 -0300
>Subject: Michigan & Extraterrestrials?

>Dear Friends,

>Is this true?

>"In Michigan, the state does not allow mention of flying saucers
>or extraterrestrials on its test, because those subjects might
>imply the forbidden topic of evolution".


Hi Eustaquio!

Do you mean tests given to students in the classroom?

I am aware that in the past year efforts have been made by
school boards in Michigan and a few other states to improve
science education in the classroom. One of the ways proposed to
do this was to separate religious and philosphical views from
science (knowledge based on facts alone). As for flying saucers
and extraterrestrials being forbidden topics on science tests, I
do not know, but the Bible and the theory of biological
evolution were both considered to be religious views.

Early last year U.S. President Bush signed into law an Education
Bill which has specific instructions that students should be
presented to all the facts and be taught on how to think
critically for themselves, rather than be presented with a world
view that is based primarily on Biblical truths or some
untenable theory such as biological evolution.

When I crossed the Canada-U.S. border on Saturday and Sunday
mornings to attend the talks and workshops at the 2003 MUFON
Symposium in Dearborn, Michigan I was asked what the topic of
the symposium was. The U.S. border crossing officers seemed very
fascinated when I told them it was on Unidentifed Flying
Objects. One of the officers half-jokingly asked me if there
were any aliens in the back of my van before letting me enter
the U.S.

It is interesting how the local media which covered the 2003
MUFON Symposium distinguished between the UFO facts and UFO/New
Age speculations and beliefs presented by the many different
invited speakers.

In my opinion, Linda Mouton Howe's talk 'Field Research in
Norway and Brazil' at the 2003 MUFON Symposium was the best
researched, informative and most compelling one - even though I
came to a very different evaluation about the Brasilian UFO
abduction case from the evidence Linda presented in support for
this case which she personally investigated.


Nick Balaskas







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 8

                Re: Michigan & Extraterrestrials? - Westover

From: Jeff Westover <frequentflier66@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:19:11 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 00:21:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Michigan & Extraterrestrials? - Westover


>From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
>To: UFO UpDates -Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 19:09:01 -0300
>Subject: Michigan & Extraterrestrials?

>Dear Friends,

>Is this true?

>"In Michigan, the state does not allow mention of
>flying saucers
>or extraterrestrials on its test, because those
>subjects might
>imply the forbidden topic of evolution".


Hello List.

I found Eustaquio's above quote online at FrontPage Magazine's
website in an article titled "Textbook Thought Police" By Diane
Ravitch which was attributed to the Wall Street Journal (July 1,
2003)

http://www.cspc.org/articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=8686

Michigan House Bill 4382 (2001), A bill proposed by Rep.
Gosselin (R-Oakland County) sought to amend 1976 PA 451, "The
revised school code". The bill directs that all references to
"evolution" or "how species change through time" should have
additional words added that students should be informed that
evolution is an unproven theory and that students should explain
the "competing theories" of evolution and "THE THEORY THAT LIFE
IS THE RESULT OF THE PURPOSEFUL, INTELLIGENT DESIGN OF A
CREATOR."

Some were fearful that "intelligent design" would reflect some
people's beliefs that extraterrestrials were responsible for
some or all of our evolutionary advances and that those theories
would enter into our school systems as discussions in
classrooms.

Here is the Bill's information from the official Michigan
Legislature website:

http://www.michiganlegislature.org/mileg.asp?page=getObject&objName01-HB-4382&us
erid=


I may be wrong, but I'm not aware of this bill actually coming
to a vote.  It seems to have been tabled.

Jeff Westover
Swamp Gas Graphics
http://www.theothersky.org/swampgas
http://www.crystaltower.com/jeffw







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 8

                     Re: Another UFO Excuse? - Deschamps

From: Michel M. Deschamps <ufoman@ican.net>
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 00:25:25 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 00:51:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Another UFO Excuse? - Deschamps


>From: GT McCoy  <gtmccoy@charter.net>
>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 08:32:26 -0700
>Subject: Another UFO Excuse?

>Tier-3 Derived UAV - Aviation week

>Hello All,

>Found this story interesting, who knows, the birth of another
>UFO excuse?

>http://www.aviationnow.com/avnow/news/channel_awst_story.jsp?id=news/07073news.
xml

I believe they already used it as an excuse... in a way..... When
first unveiled to the public, they mentioned how it looked like
a flying saucer when you looked at it, head-on - but then,
there are the wings! <LMAO>

One would have to either be stupid... or drunk... to identify
this device as a flying saucer! Saucers have no wings! Duh!

Cordially,

Michel M. Deschamps






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 8

                Re: Punch Biopsy/Involuntary Sampling Ottawa

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:00:38 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 08:01:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Punch Biopsy/Involuntary Sampling Ottawa


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 10:39:54 -0400
>Subject: Re: Punch Biopsy/Involuntary Sampling Ottawa Feb-03

>Just to corroborate the post, above:

>Over the years I have been contacted by four different
>physicians who independently of each other have identified the
>photos of the 'scoop marks' I have had posted at the old
>Intruders Foundation website and now at AIC, as being the result
>of a medical tissue gathering procedure known as a 'Punch
>Biopsy'.

>[ See: http://www.virtuallystrange.net/aic/pev1.htm ]

>Three out of the four members of my immediate family unit have a
>scoop mark/punch biopsy scar. None of us have ever had such a
>test performed by any 'earthly' physician. Scoop marks are
>fairly common among those reporting a lifetime of UFO occupant
>abductions.

>Former creator/webmaster of Budd Hopkins'
>Intruders Foundation website

Hello John

Very interesting John and all of this does sure make me wonder.
When a doctor can jump into the mix  it certainly shines a
little more light on these reports. I will be heading over
shortly to read the post. I made a doctors appointment today for
myself, just to have a prescription refilled. What I did was to
print out some of the photos in which people have sent to me and
took them along with me. I showed my doctor the pic's and he
said some of them did look interesting and he would look them
over and once back from his holiday. He will then give me a call
and pass along his thoughts. Glad I thought of the idea.

I just received another case, along with photo. Since late
Friday night I have now received a total of 47 cases. Most
without photos, just peoples stories. Many or most seem to be
sticking pretty darn close to one another as to what was found.
Some have reported other symptoms as well. Actually one report
and photos I am waiting on is from a lady who tells me that her
family had found needle marks behind her left ear, and another
needle mark hidden in her hair on her neck after he complaining
over the area in question. There was some discomfort. Family
members are going to take a photo and send it a long.

Now today was a rather interesting day and away from the scoop
mark events. I had a telephone call from a fellow who explained
to me that when he was in Berlin on a holiday he was taking snap
shots of the area. It wasn't until he got home, and a friend
looked at the photos, did they see something very strange in one
of the pictures. The fellow said it certainly is a craft of some
sort, and when blown up one can easily see it. So he is sending
me the photo, or copy of and should be here sometime early next
week. I will post the results.

Plus I had two more British Columbia sighting reports come in
today. Both coming from Victoria on Vancouver Island. One of the
object is described as being a long tube structure and metallic
in color, also very large in size. I will post the rest on this
once I have it written up.

The other sighting report is also very interesting. It was
described as being the shape and approx: size of a florescent
tube. Like one a person would have in their kitchen. This object
sped around very quickly in between two large buildings. It also
showed up approx: ten minutes after it's first run by.

So lots happening.

Take care,

Brian






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 8

                             Concave Scoop Mark

From: Brian Vike - HBCCUFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:25:15 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 08:03:20 -0400
Subject: Concave Scoop Mark


Hi Gang

Sorry I was going to post the report I was talking about, but
forgot to add it to the email. BTW - I am only posting the
information I have permission to post.

Take care
Brian
HBCC UFO

-----

Carrboro, NC

Hi Brian,

I am just writing to let you know that you can add my name to
the list of persons who have experienced the unusual concave
scoop mark upon waking up.  The details appear to be the same.
 I woke up one morning in early March, 2003 with what until
today I assumed was a spider bite on the inside of my left arm,
half way between the wrist and elbow.  It exactly matched the
"scoop mark" you posted.  In the two reports listed on the site,
I have seen no reports of swelling, which in my case occurred to
a significant degree.  In fact, after two days, my entire inner
arm was inflamed from wrist to elbow.  The "hole" itself never
bled, but it eventually turned a sickly black.

I was out of town and it didn't seem to be an emergency room
case (if I had experienced ever I would have gone), so I never
had it checked out.  Now that I have seen these reports, I
sorely regret that decision.  It would have been interesting if
a doctor had diagnosed it as a punch biopsy.  I do have a
permanent scar from the event, but I'm not sure much can be
gleaned so many months later.  If you are aware of any tests or
whatnot to differentiate between a bite and a biopsy, my
curiosity is certainly piqued.

Hope this helps, for what it's worth!

More Information Below

-----

Hi Brian,

You are more than welcome to post my story wherever you see fit.
 I attached a picture of the scar, and like I said in my
previous email, it is less than dramatic as it's been about four
months since the event.  But at least you get an idea of its
size and location.  It measures about 7mm x 3mm, but the actual
hole was slightly smaller than that.

Let me know if you come up with any interesting details.

I would very much like to thank this person for taking the time
to write and share the story with us all.

(HBCC UFO Research has deleted all personal information for this
person's report above).







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 8

                      Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Bourdais

From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr>
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:30:18 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 08:06:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Bourdais


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 10:31:32 -0400
>Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants'

>>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 15:38:35 +0200
>>Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants'

>>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
>>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>>>Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 18:04:01 -0400
>>>Subject: Leir & 'Implants' [Was: Speaking of 'Non-Disclosure']

>As far as I know, the results of the analysis on any of
>these objects that has been made public shows that they
>are ordinary objects. Why continue to recruit abductees
>to perform invasive surgical procedures if none of the
>recovered objects he already has in hand have not proven
>to be anomalous/justify further surgeries.

To John, and List,

I don't understand how you can reach such a conclusion. You
should certainly read, first the book of Dr Leir, and then the
many articles which I listed in my text on Dr Leir.

Yes, we don't have a complete view so far, but there is ample
information which should, at the very least, keep us carefull on
the subject. There is a whole list of very peculiar findings
about those implants. I remember that, last year, you admitted
that is was "compelling". In the same vein, Stanton Friedman
found Leir's presentation at Leeds (GB) "outstanding".

Perhaps Stan would like to comment on this ?

>>I know a competent metallurgist who read Dr Leir's book
>>carefully and found the the metallurgic composition very
>>unusual, for the implant analysed by New Mexico Tech.

>He read Leir's book? Or did he conduct an analysis on the
>object in question himself?

He read the analysis made by the metallurgist at New Mexico Tech
and found the metallic composition most unusual.

BTW, the idea that this man would have tried to "please" NIDS
with exotic findings, does not stand a short examination. He had
not been informed of the origin of the fragment. Leir informed
him that it had been surgicaly removed from a body after
receiving a copy of the first analysis. He then became very
negative about the idea of an ET origin, in a second letter of
opinion. All this is, or should be, well known now.

>>This, alone, would grant further study, it seems to me. The
>>injuction of the scientific board at NIDS to stop research
>>immediately sounds very strange to me.

>How so? They tested _two_ of these objects and drew a
>blank both times. (the 'implants' turned out to be prosaic
>objects.) Maybe NIDS didn't have the funds or time to
>conduct an analysis on any of the others. You need to
>pose this question to Colm Kelleher or to John Alexander
>who was head of NIDS at the time.

No, they did not "draw a blank", but the truth is that the
Scientific Board decided to stop all research. Think of that as
you like. To me, it is quite strange.

>>BTW, the results of the first analysis, made at Los Alamos,
>>remain to be published, apparently. If there was nothing in
>>them, why then a second analysis? And without telling the
>>metallurgist what it was about?

>Good question.

>>One more point - quite a few photos and microphotos of implants
>>have been published, in Dr Leir's book and in many articles.

>>I strongly suggest that we just wait a bit for new developments,
>>and refrain from scornful comments in the meantime.
>
>Scornful? How about 'outraged'? I see no need for Dr. Leir to
>cut any more abductees unless he has evidence that one or
>several of the objects that he has already recovered are of
>extraterrestrial origin. So far, there has been no report of any
>such object(s) having been recovered by anyone, anywhere.

>Period.

>Unless/until that happens, I will protest and speak out against
>subjecting _anyone_else_ to invasive surgical procedures. This
>isn't Nazi Germany.

I am sorry, John, but sound like a "noisy negativist"  now.


Regards,

Gildas Bourdais







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 8

               Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens -

From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 10:38:43 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 08:09:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens -


>From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 00:45:25 +0100
>Subject: Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens

>>From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 19:12:48 +0100
>>Subject: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens

>Whilst this is a fascinating case, I can assure you that there
>was no question of any RAF aircraft trying to shoot down UFOs.

Hi Nick, list..

The Observer's line about aircraft trying to shoot down UFOs
originates in another incident, involving a USAF F-86 Sabre
pilot, during the period 1956-57. He was ordered, by an RAF
Ground Controlled Intercept station to fire his full salvo of
'mighty mouse' rockets at a UFO tracked over East Anglia.

The full testimony of the pilot, Milton Torres, can be found at:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/1998/jun/m07-034.shtml

As far as I'm aware there is no official confirmation of this
incident from the British or American records.

But I'm sure the list would be interested to learn that "there
was no question of any RAF aircraft trying to shoot down UFOs."

That would suggest you have had access to material on this, or
related incidents from the '50s that, we are assured, were
destroyed in 1961. Paul Harris of the Observer was told these
were lost "in a fire".

Did you ever see any files or records related to the Lakenheath
incident during your incumbency at Sec(AS)2?

>I was contacted by BBC Radio 5 Live after this story ran (I
>didn't see it in my copy of The Observer, and believe it only
>ran on the paper's website). I did a brief down the line
>interview with them, to set the record straight.


Full credit for the location of the addition USAF documents on
the Lakenheath and Bornholm radar incidents should go to Jan
Aldrich, who continues to work hard unearthing material from
long lost archives.

Jan and I have lodged FOIA requests for the outstanding
documents relating to the incidents, held by the National
Archives.

All the original documents related to this case can be found at:

http://www.parcellular.fsnet.co.uk/Lakenheath.htm

The site contains more than 270 text and image files, including,
in addition to the original USAF intelligence reports and other
Blue Book documents:

22 new official British Royal Air Force and Ministry of Defence
documents;

36 new interview transcripts and statements from pilots, ground
personnel and operations staff;

23 web-pages of in-depth commentary and analysis, fully
interlinked;

14 pages of meteorological data, with detailed tables, charts
and analysis;

14 pages of detailed radar and avionics specifications;

30 archived letters between investigators and principal
witnesses between 1975 and 2001;

Plus much more, with numerous links and bibliographical
references to research material.

Much credit is due to Martin Shough who has put many hours into
collecting and assembling this material.


All the best,

Dave Clarke







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 8

                           Victor Kean - 1931-2003

From: Graham W. Birdsall - UFO Magazine [UK] <gwb@ufomag.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 12:36:40 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 08:44:45 -0400
Subject: Victor Kean - 1931-2003


I regret to announce the sudden death of famed 'Flying Triangle'
researcher, Victor Kean. News of Victor=B9s death came after his
friend and close working colleague, Omar Fowler, head of the
Derbyshire-based Phenomenon Research Association, spoke with his
wife yesterday (Monday, 7 July). The couple were on holiday in
Sweden when Victor, aged 72, died the previous day (Sunday, 6
July). The cause of death has yet be ascertained and an autopsy
will be performed tomorrow (Wednesday, 8 July).

According to Omar Fowler, Victor had been unwell of late, but
news of his death still came as a "great shock".

=46rom his Berlin, Germany home, Victor Kean had assembled what is
arguably the world=B9s largest data base on so-called 'Flying
Triangle' reports, and was a household name among UFO
enthusiasts and researchers worldwide.

We extend our deepest sympathies to his wife and family and all
who knew him.

Graham W. Birdsall (Editor)
UFO Magazine [UK]








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 8

                   'UFO Program' At Laurentian University?

From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net>
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 08:14:37 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 09:41:00 -0400
Subject: 'UFO Program' At Laurentian University?


Hi -

A caller to an overnight talk show made a quick reference to a
"UFO programme" (which might simply be one course) at Laurentian
University in Sudbury, Ontario.  Anyone know if that reference
is true?

How common are such courses, if it is a single course? Is there
a list of universities with such courses posted?


Eleanor White








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 8

                  Re: STS-48 Time Tags Explained - Fleming

From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com>
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 08:27:51 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 09:42:23 -0400
Subject: Re: STS-48 Time Tags Explained - Fleming


>From: Daniel Corbett <dannycorbett@earthlink.net>
>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 13:25:02 -0400
>Subject: Re:  STS-48 Time Tags Explained - Corbett

>To Lan and/or other knowledgable people,

>I am trying to get my reference points.

>Some reports seem to state that the STS 'belly' was in the
>direction of motion.

My knowledge of the coordinate systems used for the shuttle is
pretty limited, but these are the numbers Oberg gave as the
shuttle's attitude back in 1999:

"The autopilot pointing load was pitch 0, yaw 280, roll 270,
which comes out to left wing down, belly forward, nose tucked
about 10 degrees toward the +Vbar."

These angles are apparently relative to the orbital motion of
the spacecraft. If the pitch, roll, and yaw were all zero, the
shuttle's orientation would presumably be that of a conventional
aircraft, with nose in the direction of flight and wings
parallel to the Earth's surface.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 8

                    Re: Victor Kean - 1931-2003 - Connors

From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 07:31:56 -0600
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 09:43:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Victor Kean - 1931-2003 - Connors


>From: Graham W. Birdsall - UFO Magazine [UK] <gwb@ufomag.co.uk>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 12:36:40 +0100
>Subject: Victor Kean 1931-2003

How sad. Victor and I communicated over the years and I will
certainly miss him. His work and efforts in the field of Ufology
will definitely be a great legacy for a very wonderful man. My
deepest and sincerest condolences to Victor's family and
friends.

Wendy Connors








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 8

                          What Is Real In Ufology?

From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 10:50:10 -0300
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 10:05:18 -0400
Subject: What Is Real In Ufology?


Dear friends

I=B4m writing an article for the Brazilian UFO magazine the title
"What Is Real In Ufology?". I'd like to hear your opinion. I put
this question to Brazilian discussion lists and I received a lot
of different viewpoints.

Can you help me?

Regards









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 8

                Sci Fi Begins Production On Kecksburg Special

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 10:17:39 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 10:17:39 -0400
Subject: Sci Fi Begins Production On Kecksburg Special




Source: Pittsburgh Tribune-Review

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/entertainment/s_143596.html


Sci Fi Begins Production On Kecksburg Special

By Ann Saul Dudurich
Tribune-Review
Tuesday, July 8, 2003

The Sci Fi Channel has begun production of a two-hour
documentary exploring the baffling 37-year-old Kecksburg UFO
case. According to Larry Landsman, director of the cable
channel's special projects, the prime-time special will air in
October.

"The Kecksburg incident is an extremely compelling case," he
said. "We have new eyewitnesses who have come forward ...
firsthand witnesses whose recollection of that evening is sharp.
It's making for quite an incredible documentary. Startling. It
will open some eyes."

Filming has taken place "several times" in the last few months,
said Landsman, adding he expects Sci Fi crews to be back in the
area "within a few weeks" to film a town hall meeting.

"We want to bring together the various participants of this
event for the first time. Get the believers and the nonbelievers
in the same room at the same time," he said. "We're still
working out logistics and details, but this will be a crucial
element of the documentary. It could end up to be quite
explosive."

Last November, the cable channel challenged government secrecy,
calling for declassification of records concerning unidentified
aerial phenomena. To that end, the cable channel backed a
Freedom of Information Act, or FOIA, initiative aimed at cases
involving the retrieval of objects of unknown origin.

The Kecksburg documentary will be a "comprehensive look at an
ongoing investigation in Washington," said Landsman, including
work done by California-based investigative reporter Leslie
Kean, and longtime Greensburg investigator, Stan Gordon.

"I am a consultant, along with Stan, on the documentary," Kean
said. "I've met and interviewed a lot of the witnesses, and
acted as sort of a liaison between these people and Sci Fi."

In addition, the program will reveal evidence gathered during a
forensic analysis of the crash site.

"We're committed to exploring the blurry lines between science
fact and science fiction," Landsman said. "We've brought in geo-
archaeologists from the West Virginia University, plus
environmental scientists to examine the area witnesses claim a
craft of unknown origin landed."

Any hints as to what scientists discovered?

"Absolutely none," Landsman said with a laugh. "It will be
revealed in the documentary. I will say this, though. It was
startling to see what they found."

Ann Saul Dudurich can be reached at adudurich@tribweb.com or
(724) 837-4378.


[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 8

                       UFO Sighted In Southern Taiwan

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 10:25:12 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 10:25:12 -0400
Subject: UFO Sighted In Southern Taiwan




Source: Central News Agency - Taipei, Taiwan, Republic of China

http://www.cna.com.tw/eng/cepread.php?id0307070019&pt=15&LArr0307070034,20030707
0033,200307070032,200307070031,200307070030,200307070029,200307070028,2003070700
27,200307070026,200307070025,200307070024,200307070023,200307070022,200307070021
,200307070020,200307070019,200307070018,200307070017,200307070016,200307070015

UFO Sighted In Southern Taiwan

07-07-03

Taipei, July 7 (CNA) A white, oval unidentified flying object
described as being the size of a basketball was sighted and
videotaped by a Chiayi woman in southern Taiwan Sunday, and a
"UFO specialist" did not rule out the idea that it could have
been an object from outer space.

The woman, surnamed Wang, reported that her child was playing in
the yard of her home Sunday evening when she saw the object
moving in a bamboo copse in front of the house. Alerted by the
child's shout, Wang saw the object moving noiselessly and
immediately videotaped the scene.

The woman reported that the object was tinged with green around
the edges. It moved up and down, right and left for nearly 20
minutes before flying rapidly southwards and out of sight.

The woman said that there were no local activities going on at
the time, so that she was convinced that the phenomenon could
not have been the result of firecrackers or light projection.
She asked Lu Ying-chung, a professor at Nanhua University and
the founder of the Taiwan UFO Association for an explanation.

Lu examined the videotape and refused to rule out the
possibility that the object could have come from outer space,
saying that no flying vehicle on earth could move so quietly and
in such a fashion.

It was the third reported UFO sighting over the past week in
Taiwan, Lu said, claiming that the tape "could not be a hoax."

(By Lilian Wu)


[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 8

                     Re: Victor Kean - 1931-2003 - Hale

From: Roy Hale <roy@thelosthaven.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 15:35:56 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 10:52:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Victor Kean - 1931-2003 - Hale


>From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 07:31:56 -0600
>Subject: Re: Victor Kean - 1931-2003

>How sad. Victor and I communicated over the years and I will
>certainly miss him. His work and efforts in the field of Ufology
>will definitely be a great legacy for a very wonderful man. My
>deepest and sincerest condolences to Victor's family and
>friends.


Hi All,

Victor and I did have some discussions on the FT over some time,
I also placed a page on my site for his Flying Triangle group.

My sincere condolences to his family, on this very sad news.

Will the FT database and group continue, as I would not want the
hard work and research of this man to disappear?


Regards,

Roy








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 8

                       UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 25

From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 16:29:17 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 15:59:52 -0400
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 25


Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor.

<Masinaigan@aol.com>
==========================

      UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 8, Number 25
July 9, 2003
Editor: Joseph Trainor

E-Mail: <Masinaigan@aol.com>
Website: http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/


SUDDEN OUTBREAK OF
CROP CIRCLES WORLDWIDE

      There was a sudden outbreak of crop circles all
around the world during the second half of June 2003.
      In Saratoga Springs, N.Y. (population 26,186),
located 175 miles (280 kilometers) north of New York City,
on Wednesday, June 11, 2003, a witness named Joe "was
awakened around 2 a.m. by 'a humming sound' relatively
short in duration but having a definite 'harmonic' quality
about it.  He explained that there were three different
'tones' to the hum."
      A few hours later, "Joe went out to take the dog for
a walk.  On the way, the dog refused to go into the field.
Joe then noticed that the waist-high grass was laid down
in five different areas.  The areas that were laid down
were in a perfect east-to-west alignment.  Starting on the
west edge of the field, the first four 'swirls' were
relatively small, a good meter or two in length.  The
fifth formation (the easternmost--R.C.) was the largest,
approximately 100 feet in length and 80 feet wide. (30
meters long and 24 meters wide--J.T.)"
      In UK, "a mysterious crop circle has appeared close
to one of prehistoric Britain's most important Neolithic
sites," near Ripon in Yorkshire.
      "The intricately drawn formation, like a
chrysanthemum bloom, has appeared in the shadow of three
banked and ditched circular enclosures, or henges, at
Thornborough, near Masham, which date back 6,000 years.
They are part of a concentration of (mysterious
prehistoric) monuments stretching southwest roughly
parallel with the River Ure."
      In Switzerland, a crop circle appeared on Friday,
June 20, 2003, just outside the village of Busswil, near
Bern.  The site was photographed and investigated by Swiss
cerealogists Theresa and Bernhard Kuenzler.
      In Belgium, according to journalist Jan Bex and
cerealogist Robert Boerman, "people living in their
neighborhood" along the Borgwormsesteenweg between the
towns of Brustem and Mielen-Boven-Aalst "heard a
disturbing humming sound that they couldn't place" on
Tuesday, June 24, 2003.  Bex reported, "I can personally
confirm that the night before the crop circle was noticed
there were heavy meteorological disturbances: thunder and
lightning and a storm.  The crop circle is located on the
road from Brustem to Mielen-Boven-Aalst."
      In Canada, Paul Anderson of Canadian Crop Circle
Research Network reported, "Two more 'randomly downed
area' formations were found at Georgetown (population
17,600) and Schomberg in Ontario (province)," located
about 15 miles (25 kilometers) west of Toronto, "near the
locations of the 'pictogram' formation at Georgetown and
the 'snow circle' at East Caledon in 2002."
      "The formation in Georgetown is in oil-seed rape" and
"includes a long pathway approximately 0.9 meters (3 feet)
wide by 30 meters (100 feet) long."
      "The formation at Schomberg in barley covers an area
approximately 90 meters (300 feet) by 45 meters (150 feet)
overall, with various roughly-shaped 'squares,'
'rectangles,' 'grapeshot patches' and others with abrupt
ends of overlapping and  directional lays of crop."
      Finally, the most recent crop circle appeared in a
wheat field near Suisun City, California (population 26,
118), located about 45 miles (72 kilometers) northeast of
San Francisco, on Friday night, June 27, 2003.
      "The farmer stood alone at the edge of his 80-acre
wheat field" in Rockville, Cal., just outside of Suisun
City, "on Saturday (June 28, 2003) and in the early
morning quiet, he stared across a sea of stalks and saw
something strange."
      "Larry Balestra walked into the field and waded
through the waist-high grass and, with every step, it
slowly came into view."
      "After about 100 feet (30 meters) he stepped inside a
massive circle stamped into his field, the (wheat) stalks
pushed down--flat.  It measured about 140 feet (42 meters)
in diameter."
      "'What the heck!?' he said and grabbed his cell phone
to call his wife.  When she answered, he said, 'You won't
believe what I'm looking at.'"
      "Then he turned his head."
      "Across Balestra's wheat field on Suisun Valley and
Rockville Roads, he saw more than a large circle had been
created by flattened wheat.  The series of various-sized
shapes formed a symmetrical distant ring and stretched
larger than a football field."
      "Balestra has farmed the area since 1986 and has
never seen crop circles in his field before and has never
heard of any other farmer in the area having this problem
before, he said."
      "'The harvester can't pick them up,' he said, holding
a broken stalk, 'This is weird.'"
      "Balestra said he believes someone must've vandalized
his crops on Friday night (June 27, 2003).  However, farm
workers who live in a house by the field told him nothing
was heard or seen."
      "'I guess some people have too much time on their
hands,' he said, shaking his head."  (A lot of sources
contributed to this one, so here they are.  Saratoga
Springs, N.Y.--Thanks to Ray Cecot of IRAAP.
Thornborough, Yorks. --See Yorkshire Today for June 25,
2003, "Crop circle baffles 'friends' of henges," thanks to
Robert Fischer.  Busswil, Switzerland--thanks to Theresa
and Bernhard Kuenzler.  Brustem, Belgium--Thanks to Kris
Oosterlinck.  Georgetown, Ontario--Thanks to Paul Anderson
of CCCRN.  Rockville, Cal.--See the Fairfield, Cal. Daily
Republic for July 2, 2003, "Mystery in wheat field,"
thanks to Robert Fischer for the newspaper article.)



STRANGE CAT MUTILATIONS
REPORTED IN COLORADO
AND UTAH

      "Bugsy was a tough cat who could stare down a fox and
run like a rabbit. But one night the tabby met up with
something darker and more menacing than a fox, something
he couldn't outrun."
      "The next morning, Christy Hughes" of Aurora,
Colorado (population 276,393) "found her bruising 12-pound
cat on the lawn.  'I can't get the visual (image) out of
my mind,' a shaken Hughes recalled, looking at the spot
where Bugsy died 12 weeks ago.  'It's sick.'"
      "The cat had been dissected with near surgical
precision.  No one heard or saw anything.  Bugsy was
Number 23.  Authorities in Colorado and Utah are
desperately trying to catch the person or people behind
the killing and mutilating of 45 cats in the Denver
(Colorado) area and 10 in Salt Lake City (Utah)."
      "Police have not ruled out that the attacks are part
of an adolescent prank or initiation rite or even the work
of predatory animals.  The most alarming possibility,
though, is that they could be a precursor to attacks on
humans,"
      "Cat corpses are turning up almost every day.
Baffled law enforcement and animal welfare groups have
formed a 10-agency task force to investigate the crimes
and a reward of $12,000 is being offered for the capture
and conviction of the killers."
      "In Salt Lake City, the attacks have occurred in
upscale Avenues neighborhood, and five were on the same
street.  'It seems odd that no one has seen anything,'
said Detective Kevin James, an investigator with the Salt
Lake City Police Department.  'It could be an animal; it
could be a person.  We are not ruling anything out right
now.'"
      "The Denver suburb of Aurora, with a population of
about 300,000, has been the epicenter of the cat killings
with 24 since last July (2002).  The city's police chief,
Ricky Bennett, told reporters yesterday (July 2, 2003)
that the evidence, which he did not detail, shows humans,
not animals, were responsible for the many deaths.  He
also said future killings will be treated as crime scenes
and fully investigated."
      "'I'm going to be tightlipped in the future,' he
said, 'We don't want suspects to know what we know.  And
we don't want copycat situations.  This has become a
quality of life issue.'"
      "A psychologist is working with the task force to
help determine the kind of person likely to commit such a
crime."
      "Temma Martin, spokesperson for the Salt Lake City
Animal Service Department, said the killings seemed too
neat to have been done by an animal, but did appear to be
ritualistic."
      "If captured, police say the perpetrators face
misdemeanor charges carrying up to 18 months in prison on
each count.  A District Attorney could elevate those
charges to felonies, they said."
      "In Christy Hughes' upscale neighborhood, her
daughters have posted signs warning residents to keep
their cats indoors.  Police said that despite the killings
and warnings, people are still letting their cats out at
night."
      "Hughes is frustrated by the lack of witnesses.
'Someone has to have seen these people,' she said, 'They
aren't ghosts.  They are out there, and the next time it
may not be a cat."  (See the Providence, R.I. Journal for
July 3, 2003, "Mysterious cat killings plague Colorado,
Utah cities."  Many thanks to Mary Lou Jones-Drown for
this newspaper article.)


LUMINOUS DISC SIGHTED
IN NEW ZEALAND

      On Saturday, June 28, 2003, at 4:57 p.m., John Snow
"was outside walking to my car" at his home in Otaki,
North Island, New Zealand "when my wife came running over
to me, very excited, and asked me to look between the
trees and house to see what she had seen from the kitchen
window."
      According to Mrs. Snow, "a bright disc-shaped object,
very white" was "hovering above the rooftops of the houses
about 500 meters (0.3 miles) away from my home."
      "She said that it stayed in that position for about
four minutes, not moving at all.  She said it was not an
aircraft, and there was no other light except for one
white-light beam coming from the round white light.  By
the time she got out to me, and I looked in that
direction, there was nothing to be seen.  My wife was very
shaken up about the sighting."
      Otaki is located 50 kilometers (30 miles) north of
Wellington on the North Island.  (Email Form Report)


MYSTERIOUS "LIGHT PULSES"
SEEN IN ARGENTINA

      "Three unidentified flying objects of great size and
brilliance were seen on (Tuesday) June 24 (2003) in the
location of Cachi, 157 kilometers (94 miles) southeast of
Salta," in northern Argentina "and at an elevation of
2,210 meters (7,293 feet) above sea level."
      "The strange bodies were videotaped by Antonio
Zuleta, an indefatigable researcher of these mysteries,
which are exceptionally recurrent in this part of the
(Salta) province, after receiving a warning from a teacher
who phoned him to give him the details of the peculiar
celestial airshow."
      "'The time was 7:30 p.m. when I saw it,' said art
instructor Maria del Valle Plaza, who teaches at the
Payogasta School and the Victorino de la Plaza School" in
Cachi.
      "Married and a mother of three, she said that the
sighting was 'incredible... fantastic.  That's why I
immediately got in touch with Sr. Zuleta so that he could
videotape them.  The UFOs appeared behind the western
hills.  The first one to emerge was enormous in size.'"
      "'It gave off lights of different colors and moved
slowly, without making a sound.  I was coming back from
doing my job, all alone along Route 33 between Payogasta
and Cachi, from which I was no more than 3 kilometers (2
miles) distant.  I pulled my car over, took out my cell
phone and called Zuleta, who came to my observation point
and brought his equipment along,' said Sra. del Valle."
      "'I never thought I'd witness anything like it,
despite having been down here,' she added, 'After
receiving higher education, I came back here after many
years of absence, and to have the privilege of seeing
these fantastic and mysterious lights of which I'd heard
so many stories since childhood.  After the first UFO
appeared, it was followed by another two, which also
crossed the skies.  They suddenly remained still.  The
light was intense and shifting, but it didn't hurt my
eyes.  They are there as if within hands' reach.
Motionless, as though they were looking at us from their
interior.  I was spellbound and amazed.  At no time did I
feel any fear.  I only wanted to strain my eyes to see the
core of each object, which suddenly, propelled by a
strange and powerful force, moved at breathtaking speed
over the (eastern) horizon."
      Thirteen hours earlier, at 6:10 a.m., eyewitness V.E.
said that "south of Buenos Aires," the national capital,
he "had seen a pulse of blue light flashing in front of
two very large objects, like aircraft of great size,
possibly that of a Boeing 747."
      Later in the day, at 6:40 p.m., "what may have been a
bolide of a white spherical type crossed the sky over
Buenos Aires and was seen by dozens of people.  It was
last seen heading east towards Uruguay."
      At 7:10 p.m., two witnesses in La Boca, the
waterfront district of Buenos Aires "saw a very powerful
'pulse of light' that generated sporadically in the skies
over (the) barrio Villa de Voto (neighborhood).  Ufologist
Silvia Simondini said she witnessed the same phenomenon at
7:10 p.m. from a suburb south of the city" of Buenos
Aires.  (See the Argentinian newspaper El Tribuno for July
2, 2003, "Teacher tells impressive story of the
exceptional event."  Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales,
Gloria Coluchi y Ricardo E. D'Angelo para eso articulo de
diario.)


WEIRD WHITE GOOP FALLS
ON INDIANAPOLIS SUBURB

      "The Indianapolis Airport Authority on Monday (June
30, 2003) tested a white substance found on a Hendricks
County (Indiana) ranch house to determine if it fell from
an aircraft."
      "Darryl Roach found a strip of white drops about 8:30
p.m. Sunday," June 29, 2003, "on the roof and deck of his
home in the Huntwick subdivision."
      "The neighborhood is west of the Marion/Hendricks
county line and south of County Road 100 East" just
outside Indianapolis.
      "He also complained of a foul odor so bad that he
left his home for a hotel room Sunday night."
      "Indianapolis International Airport spokesman Dennis
Rosebrough couldn't say whether the substance dropped from
an airplane.  While such incidents occur occasionally,
aviation officials say they are rare."
      "'It's certainly not anything we hear about very
often,' he said."
      "Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) spokeswoman
Elizabeth Isham Cory said materials reported hitting
houses are seldom proved to have come from an airplane."
      "'Certainly when something appears on your house,
they believe it is from an aircraft,' she said."
      "Often it comes from a neighboring business or the
substance has blown onto the house."
      "Rarely, Cory said, the falling material is 'blue
ice,' a term used to describe human waste mixed with blue
chemicals after it's flushed from an airplane lavatory.
The waste would have kept its bluish color after impact,
which probably would rule out the material on Roach's
house as being waste, she said."
      "The FAA will look into Roach's complaint, she said."
      "Roach called the Washington Township-Avon (Indiana)
Fire Department on Monday," June 30, 2003, "after getting
little response Sunday from the airport authority.
Firefighters and emergency management personnel examined
the drops and suggested Roach not touch the substance."
      "'When it scared them, it scared us,' Roach said."
      "He's certain that the splatters aren't the work of a
flock of birds."
      "'Absolutely not,' he said, 'Birds ain't gonna do
that.'"
      "Paul Cunningham, president of the subdivision's
resident association, said an airport runway is about four
miles (7 kilometers) from the house.  He didn't believe
the (white) liquid dropped from an aircraft high in the
air will land only on one house in such a small area."
      "'I'm doubtful that's from an aircraft,' Cunningham
said."
      "Regardless of whether the white substance came from
a plane, there's a mess on Roach's house.  Deck chairs, an
umbrella, a window and his roof are stained, and he's
worried that the white drops might burn his (lawn) grass."
      "'You're not going to scrub that off a roof,' Roach
said, 'That roof is stained.'"  (See the Indianapolis Star
for July 1, 2003, "Mystery substance on house undergoes
tests."  Many thanks to Steve Wilson Sr. for forwarding
this newspaper article.)


SUNK BY A USO?

      "The unmanned submarine holding the world's deep-dive
record disappeared off the Japanese coast" on Thursday,
May 29, 2003 "and has not been heard from since."
      "The 10-foot-long (3-meter-long) submarine was
conducting earthquake research on May 29 when researchers
discovered it had snapped its tether."
      "Kaiko, the world's only deep-sea probe capable of
reaching the ocean's deepest points, is responsible for
several key discoveries, including 180 different
microorganisms and a similar number of (previously)
unknown bacteria researchers hope will yield medical
breakthroughs."
      "In 1995, the vessel shattered the deep-sea diving
record by penetrating Challenger Deep, the ocean's deepest
point at 6.8 miles (10,900 meters).  The Japan Marine
Science and Technology Center, Kaiko's owner, will decide
Thursday whether to continue searching for the submarine."
(See USA Today for July 2, 2003, "Deep-sea sub missing off
Japan," page 8D.)
(Editor's Comment:  Something broke that steel cable.  It
could have been metal fatigue.  Or it could have been a
very large unknown sea creature--like the one that washed
ashore in Chile.  Or maybe an unidentified submarine
object--USO.)

 From the UFO Files...

1437: MYSTERIOUS CRIMEA

      Mysterious prehistoric tunnels are not only found in
central Asia and in South America.  They are also well-
known in the peninsula called the Crimea, on the Black
Sea.
      Crimean ufologist Anton A. Anfalov writes, "During
World War II, a group of local boys traveled through the
ancient tunnels connecting Simferopol with other parts of
the Crimea."
      "These tunnels are very old, with walls like polished
glass.  Obviously, they were formed by extremely high
temperatures when soil turns into a glassy-like substance.
They definitely not were constructed by human hands, nor
by any technology as we know it.  The tunnels most likely
were constructed during the time of ancient civilizations,
perhaps by Atlantis.  Some were possibly made by aliens,
or were taken over by aliens much later."
      The Crimea itself is a very ancient land.  It was
inhabited during the Stone Age, "and, at the beginning of
the First Millenium B.C., here roamed savage tribes of the
Taurians, hence the Crimea's old name Taurida.  In the
Seventh Century B.C., the Scythians came, and on the site
of present-day Simferopol stood their capital, Neapolis
(Greek for New City--J.T.)"
      In 1946, "while they were working on the town,
(Soviet) archaeologists found the remains of a coffin
thought to have belonged to a queen.  To the west of the
main gates there was also a stone mausoleum that had never
been robbed and held 1,300 golden objects, plus other
treasures."
      Strangely enough, the ruins of ancient Neapolis are
located in the southeastern quarter of Simferopol, which
is the location of one of the ancient tunnels.
      The World War II refugees "entered the tunnel at the
so-called Vernhya Cave west of Simferopol, on Geroyev
Stalingrada Street, near the suburb of Dubki."
      "One tunnel from the Vernhya Cave goes to the
vicinity of Bakhchisarai," 40 kilometers (25 miles) away,
"and then to the northeastern quarter of Sevastopol, to a
cave near the town of Inkerman."
(Editor's Note: Inkerman was the site of a battle of the
Crimean War: 1854-1856.)
      "The other underground branch (tunnel) separates from
this and goes south, ending somewhere near the southern
coast of the Crimea, near the town of Alushta, most likely
in one of the caves near the Chatyr Dag (Tatar for Tent
Mountain--J.T.), near the famous Ayanskaya Cave."
      The tunnel under Bakhchisarai played an important
part in the saga of "Crimea's Joan of Arc," the Tatar
Princess Dzhanike-Hanym.  She was the beautiful daughter
of Taktamish Khan, the peninsula's ruler.  The Crimea had
been invaded by Tamerlane and the Golden Horde in 1392,
and Taktamish Khan, eager to secure a treaty, offered his
daughter in marriage to one of Tamerlane's junior
officers.
      What the khan didn't know was that Dzhanike-Hanym was
routinely sneaking out of the seraglio, shedding her veil
and harem pants in favor of a Kazakh mercenary's leather
and armor, mounting a fast horse and riding off to the
cave for periodic trysts with her Mongol lover.  Much to
the distress of Bakhchisarai's imam (Peace be upon him--
J.T.), who found her behavior quite out of step with al-
Quran.
      The affair became public knowledge, although
Taktamish Khan was probably the last to find out.  He
locked up Dzhanike-Hanym in the old fortress of Chufut-
Kaleh.  The Mongol prince gallantly rode to her rescue.
"When the happy prince returned to join Dzhanike-Hanym,
the (Tatar) officer in charge refused her request to hand
over command of the fortress to her lover, and the
garrison was divided in its loyalty.  Fighting broke out
and the prince was wounded."  Siezing a yataghan (Turkish
sword--J.T.), Dzhanike-Hanym "rushed to his aid; they were
both stabbed there in the confusion and died there
together in each other's arms.  The fighting ceased
immediately."
      The large Moorish mausoleum in Chufut-Kaleh was built
by Taktamish Khan as a memorial to his slain daughter.
      The tunnels under Simferopol played a role of their
own in Crimean history, as well.  In 1768, Tsaritza
Catherine II declared war on the Turks' Ottoman Empire,
and, in 1771, the Russian Army fought its way into the
Crimea and captured Ak-Mechet (Turkish for White Mosque--
J.T.), now the "Old City" of Simferopol.
      According to Anton A. Anfalov, "Tatar partisans
(guerrillas) fighting the Russians in the 1780s used the
ancient tunnels, to appear and disappear from the
Tsaritza's army."
      Curiously, the Russian general who defeated the last
Tatar ruler, Ghiri Khan, in 1783 was none other than
Prince Felix Dolgorukii, the maternal great-grandfather of
Elena Petrovna von Hahn Blavatsky (better known as Madame
Blavatsky--J.T.)  The prince was the owner of a vast
occult library, including manuscripts he picked up in the
Crimea, which, unfortunately, is now lost to history.
      But, as Anton points out, the tunnels of the Crimea
have their secrets, and "some of them are exceedingly
strange."  (See Crimea Underground by Anton A. Anfalov,
Simferopol, Krym Autonomous Region, Ukraine, 2003.  Also
The Complete Guide to the Soviet Union by Victor and
Jennifer Louis, St. Martin's Press, New York, N.Y., 1991,
pages 50 to 53 and 474 to 479.)

      Well, that's it for this week.  Join us in seven days
for more UFO, Fortean and paranormal news from around the
planet Earth, brought to you by "the paper that goes home-
-UFO Roundup."  See you next time.

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2003 by Masinaigan Productions, all
rights reserved.  Readers may post news items from UFO
Roundup on their Web sites or in news groups provided that
they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list
the date of issue in which the item first appeared.

E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com>
or use the Sighting Report Form at:

http://www.ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Website comments: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>

UFOINFO: http://www.ufoinfo.com

Official Archives of UFO Roundup, AUFORN Australian
UFO Reports and Experiences, UFO + PSI Magazine, plus
archives of Filer's Files, Oz Files, UFO News UK and
UFO Sightings Italia.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
UFO Roundup is only sent to subscribers.
If you wish to unsubscribe or feel you have received
the bulletin in error, please write to:

  <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>

With the subject: Unsubscribe UFO Roundup.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 8

                Re: Michigan & Extraterrestrials? - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:39:36 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 16:02:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Michigan & Extraterrestrials? - Stanford


>From: Jeff Westover <frequentflier66@yahoo.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:19:11 -0700 (PDT)
>Subject: Re: Michigan & Extraterrestrials?

>>From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
>>To: UFO UpDates -Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 19:09:01 -0300
>>Subject: Michigan & Extraterrestrials?

>>Is this true?

>>"In Michigan, the state does not allow mention of
>>flying saucers
>>or extraterrestrials on its test, because those
>>subjects might
>>imply the forbidden topic of evolution".

<snip>

>...Michigan House Bill 4382 (2001), A bill proposed by Rep.
>Gosselin (R-Oakland County) sought to amend 1976 PA 451, "The
>revised school code". The bill directs that all references to
>"evolution" or "how species change through time" should have
>additional words added that students should be informed that
>evolution is an unproven theory and that students should explain
>the "competing theories" of evolution and "THE THEORY THAT LIFE
>IS THE RESULT OF THE PURPOSEFUL, INTELLIGENT DESIGN OF A
>CREATOR."

<snip>

>Here is the Bill's information from the official Michigan
>Legislature website:

http://www.michiganlegislature.org/mileg.asp?page=getObject&objName01-HB-4382&us
erid=

>I may be wrong, but I'm not aware of this bill actually coming
>to a vote. It seems to have been tabled.

Good riddance of Christian fundamentalist rubbish. When law
legislates (demands) the presentation of religion and creation
myths in public schools, the U.S. constitution might as well be
thrown into the trash!

If that were allowed to happen, any mention of UFOs might,
indeed, soon be forbidden in public schools, judging from the
encounters I've had with fundamentalist Christians. They may
believe as they like, but force it on my grandchild (or other
people's children)? No way!

Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 8

                        Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:48:00 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 16:04:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Velez


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:56:37 -0400
>Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants'

>>From: Chris Evans <chrisevans@zoominternet.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:32:19 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants'

><snip>

>>...But the point is this: There is a great misconception that
>>says, "If samples are not exotic and seemingly otherworldly,
>>then they cannot - therefore - be used by ETs.

>I think the point is that only samples that are "otherworldly"
>(and I suppose we're talking about isotopes here) would be
>indicative of visitation by ETs. However, that would likely
>have to be supported by other circumstances or evidence for wide
>acceptance as "proof". I've not heard anyone make the
>suggestion that visitors from space (or elsewhere) would only
>use exotic materials that cannot be found on Earth.

>I'll have to agree with John that there's no reason to continue
>cutting into people who have already become victimized, unless
>they really feel the need to get the darn thing out. Of course,
>that's a decision to be reached between the Doctor and his
>patient.

>I'm sure this line of research will continue, and it will be
>interesting to find out if some of the other samples that have
>already been collected will yield better results. Of course,
>testing is expensive and it appears that NIDS has chosen to
>utilize it's resources elsewhere.


Hello Steve,

Excellent response, eloquent and I will allow it to stand as my
own as well.

That's a long way of saying 'ditto.' ;)

Regards,

John Velez






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 8

                        Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:55:10 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 16:06:25 -0400
Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Velez


>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:30:18 +0200
>Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants'

>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>>Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 10:31:32 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants'

<anip>

>>As far as I know, the results of the analysis on any of
>>these objects that has been made public shows that they
>>are ordinary objects. Why continue to recruit abductees
>>to perform invasive surgical procedures if none of the
>>recovered objects he already has in hand have not proven
>>to be anomalous/justify further surgeries.

Hello Gildas,

You wrote:

>To John, and List,
>
>I don't understand how you can reach such a conclusion. You
>should certainly read, first the book of Dr Leir, and then the
>many articles which I listed in my text on Dr Leir.

(If) there is anything anomalous or unusual about any of the
alleged implants that Leir recovered, why hasn't he published in
any peer review journals? He's a podiatrist/doctor, why hasn't
he submitted a report or a white paper to JAMA for instance?
(Journal of the American Medical Association)

Why hasn't anything appeared in the headlines of the New York or
L.A. Times? One would think that a discovery of this magnitude
would make headlines worldwide. But no, we have to read Leir's
'book' if we wish to learn anything. That certainly does take
him off the hook in terms of having his work published in trade
papers/magazines and peer reviewed doesn't it?

I'm sorry but it just isn't good enough. If he has anything, let
him put it out there to be checked out by other scientists,
metallurgists, whoever.

Anybody can say anything in a book - freedom of speech and all
that. We need to hear what others, who have no personal stake in
the outcome have to say. Comprende?

Gildas wrote:

>>>I strongly suggest that we just wait a bit for new developments,
>>>and refrain from scornful comments in the meantime.

I responded:

>>Scornful? How about 'outraged'? I see no need for Dr. Leir to
>>cut any more abductees unless he has evidence that one or
>>several of the objects that he has already recovered are of
>>extraterrestrial origin. So far, there has been no report of any
>>such object(s) having been recovered by anyone, anywhere.

>>Period.

>>Unless/until that happens, I will protest and speak out against
>>subjecting _anyone_else_ to invasive surgical procedures. This
>>isn't Nazi Germany.

To which Gildas says:

>I am sorry, John, but sound like a "noisy negativist" now.

<LOL> Talk about a communication disconnect! Please tell me how
on earth my expression of concern that other abductees not be
subjected to invasive surgical procedures - until we have more
convincing justification to cut additional people - can be
interpreted as "noisy negativism?" <Bong>


John Velez ;)








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 8

                        Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Evans

From: Chris Evans <chrisevans@zoominternet.net>
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 12:41:11 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 16:08:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Evans


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:56:37 -0400
>Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants'

><snip>

>>...But the point is this: There is a great misconception that
>>says, "If samples are not exotic and seemingly otherworldly,
>>then they cannot - therefore - be used by ETs.

>Chris-

>I think the point is that only samples that are "otherworldly"
>(and I suppose we're talking about isotopes here) would be
>indicative of visitation by ETs. However, that would likely
>have to be supported by other circumstances or evidence for wide
>acceptance as "proof". I've not heard anyone make the
>suggestion that visitors from space (or elsewhere) would only
>use exotic materials that cannot be found on Earth.

What I glean from the various positions, being expressed, is
that there appears to be a 'preconception' about the makeup of
the implants. Since we don't (as we have said) have an initial
set of parameters, going in; then, truly, the sky is the limit.
Meaning, how can we prescribe any sort of criteria for something
we know nothing about, with reference to the means of operation
and source of presumed control? That should be extended to the
presence of (or lack of) isotopes; since, after all, these
usually represent less stable states, in our own environment, in
many cases - of which, coincidentally, persists as the
environment of presumed operation.

>I'll have to agree with John that there's no reason to continue
>cutting into people who have already become victimized, unless
>they really feel the need to get the darn thing out. Of course,
>that's a decision to be reached between the Doctor and his
>patient.

I hope it was clear by my closing statements that I was not
disagreeing with John. John's concerns are 'right on target,'
because they have raised one of those nagging issues that are
often seen to arise in connection to biological sciences, and
that is: the question of Ethics..... At what point does science
acquiesce to ethics? Especially, at the point of groping in the
dark. And without casting stones or throwing darts, Who was it
that breached the unspoken (and quite broadly perceived) ethics,
representing the privacies and trust of around 140 abductees,
whose case files were both sold and bought like a pig at the
market? And if there was such motivation to do so, then what is
the end goal that has provided such motivation?

>Of course,
>testing is expensive and it appears that NIDS has chosen to
>utilize it's resources elsewhere.
>Steve

I would only be guessing what you mean by "utilizing it's
resources elsewhere." I hope you will elaborate . . . .

I have enjoyed your insights.

Kind Regards

Chris Evans

Alien Conspiracy: Unraveling the UFO/Alien Mystery
http://www.geocities.com/chrisb_evans/vs-implant.html








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 8

                Re: Michigan & Extraterrestrials? - Westover

From: J Westover <frequentflier66@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:05:14 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 16:17:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Michigan & Extraterrestrials? - Westover


>From: Jeff Westover <frequentflier66@yahoo.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:19:11 -0700 (PDT)
>Subject: Re: Michigan & Extraterrestrials?

>>From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
>>To: UFO UpDates -Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 19:09:01 -0300
>>Subject: Michigan & Extraterrestrials?

>>Dear Friends,

>>Is this true?

>>"In Michigan, the state does not allow mention of flying saucers
>>or extraterrestrials on its test, because those subjects might
>>imply the forbidden topic of evolution".

>Hello List.

>I found Eustaquio's above quote online at FrontPage Magazine's
>website in an article titled "Textbook Thought Police" By Diane
>Ravitch which was attributed to the Wall Street Journal (July 1,
>2003)

>http://www.cspc.org/articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=8686

>Michigan House Bill 4382 (2001), A bill proposed by Rep.
>Gosselin (R-Oakland County) sought to amend 1976 PA 451, "The
>revised school code". The bill directs that all references to
>"evolution" or "how species change through time" should have
>additional words added that students should be informed that
>evolution is an unproven theory and that students should explain
>the "competing theories" of evolution and "THE THEORY THAT LIFE
>IS THE RESULT OF THE PURPOSEFUL, INTELLIGENT DESIGN OF A
>CREATOR."

>Some were fearful that "intelligent design" would reflect some
>people's beliefs that extraterrestrials were responsible for
>some or all of our evolutionary advances and that those theories
>would enter into our school systems as discussions in
>classrooms.

>Here is the Bill's information from the official Michigan
>Legislature website:

>http://www.michiganlegislature.org/mileg.asp?page=getObject&objName01-HB-
>4382&userid=

>I may be wrong, but I'm not aware of this bill actually coming
>to a vote.  It seems to have been tabled.

A clarification...

In other words, the State of Michigan, from my understanding, is
not required to teach "intelligent design" (creationism)
theories along side of evolutionary theories currently taught,
thus preserving the current seperation of church and state in
Michigan school systems.  I don't believe, however, that speech
and discourse concerning extraterrestrials and flying saucers,
as the Ravitch Wall Street Journal article suggests, is banned
from Michigan schools. One can speak of such topics in a
historical and social context without diving into the deep
waters of the Darwinian-Creationism debate.

Don't worry, invoking the words "extraterrestrial" or "flying
saucer" in a Michigan school won't summon the thought police.

Jeff








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 8

             Re: 'UFO Program' At Laurentian University? - Groff

From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 15:06:56 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 16:19:52 -0400
Subject: Re: 'UFO Program' At Laurentian University? - Groff


>From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net>
>Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 08:14:37 -0400
>Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 09:41:00 -0400
>Subject: 'UFO Program' At Laurentian University?


>Hi -

>A caller to an overnight talk show made a quick reference to a
>"UFO programme" (which might simply be one course) at Laurentian
>University in Sudbury, Ontario.  Anyone know if that reference
>is true?

>How common are such courses, if it is a single course? Is there
>a list of universities with such courses posted?


>Eleanor White

The only reference to UFO's at Laurentian University that I've
found are references to papers about the "Tectonic Strain Theory
as an explanation for UFO Phenomena". This theory states that
"most UFO phenomena (not due to frank mis-observation) are
natural events, generated by stresses and strains within the
earth's crust".

http://laurentian.ca/neurosci/TECTONIC.HTM


Terry Groff

http://terrygroff.com/ufotools/








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 8

                   Search for Life Out There Gains Respect

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 16:32:37 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 16:32:37 -0400
Subject: Search for Life Out There Gains Respect




Source: The New York Times

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/08/science/space/08SETI.html

07-06-03

Search for Life Out There Gains Respect, Bit by Bit
By Dennis Overbye

Years after Congress ordered NASA to pull the plug on a survey
looking for alien radio signals from the stars, the Search for
Extraterrestrial Intelligence, or SETI, as it is known to
aficionados, seems to have gradually achieved a modicum of
respect in the halls of Washington.

The most recent indication appeared at the end of last month,
when NASA named 12 groups that had won five-year grants to
participate as "lead teams" in its Astrobiology Institute, which
investigates the origin and future of life in the universe.

On the list was the SETI Institute, an organization in Mountain
View, Calif., that has carried on the abandoned survey.

The group proposed a variety of basic research on the way
planetary environments affect life or are affected by it. One
project is aimed at determining whether certain kinds of stars
are promising abodes for life and thus good targets for a
planned expansion of the institute's search for intelligent
radio signals.

That would make the grant the first money in a decade that NASA
has allocated for work related to radio searches, the
astronomers at the institute said.

For most of the last decade, "SETI was a four-letter word in
NASA," said Dr. Frank Drake, a radio astronomer and former
chairman of the SETI Institute. "It was not uttered in speeches,
or in documents."

NASA said nothing had changed. The agency does not as a rule
finance ground-based astronomy and, thus, has no SETI
(pronounced SEH-tee) program. But SETI research can be supported
as long as it meets the strictures of good science and emerges
from a competitive peer-reviewed process, explained Dr. Edward
J. Weiler, associate administrator of the NASA Office of Space
Science.

Dr. Michael Meyer, a biologist who heads the Astrobiology
Institute, described the proposed study as "pure astronomy,"
aimed at looking for potential habitable planets, research that
fits with the institute's mission. NASA, he added, is eager to
use the results to find targets for its planned Terrestrial
Planet Finder satellite.

Astronomers around SETI and elsewhere said NASA and Congress had
recently shown warming attitudes toward the politically
embattled subject of intelligent life Out There. Dr. Martin
Rees, a cosmologist at the University of Cambridge in England,
used an e-mail message to attribute the change partly to growing
scientific interest in extraterrestrial biology and the origins
of life, as well as, perhaps, "the growing visibility and
manifest professionalism of the SETI Institute."

The issue is so important, Dr. Rees said, that "even though the
chances of success are exceedingly low, it's worth a moderate
effort."

Dr. Michael Turner, an astrophysicist at the University of
Chicago, used a football analogy to describe the odds, saying,
"SETI is definitely throwing deep, and oh what a touchdown it
would be!"

Astronomers who testified two years ago to a House subcommittee
on space and aeronautics reported that members seemed to support
SETI. According to the journal Nature, Representative Lamar
Smith, the Texas Republican who called the hearing, said the
discovery of life elsewhere in the universe would be "one of the
most astounding discoveries in human history."

"Funding should match public interest," Mr. Smith said, "and I
don't believe it does."

In recent years, the reports from the National Academy of
Sciences have endorsed the idea of SETI, and the institute
itself, once advised to change its name, has become a respected
"brand" in astrobiology, said Dr. Drake, as evidenced by the
recent announcement. "All of this is indeed a major sea change,"
he said.

It was Dr. Drake who in 1960 first pointed a radio telescope at
two stars, hoping to hear the cosmic equivalent of "hi there."
He did not hear anything, but he earned a curious sort of
scientific immortality for his frustration.

No amount of cosmic silence has been able to discourage
astronomers who theorize that radio signals can bridge the
unbridgeable gulfs between stars much more cheaply than
spacecraft, allowing distant species to communicate by a sort of
cosmic ham radio. The Milky Way has 200 billion stars, the
astronomers point out, and billions of frequencies available for
signaling, if "they" exist.

SETI had been in eclipse at NASA since September 1993, when
Congress, fearing a backlash if it spent tax dollars on "little
green men," amended the NASA appropriation to kill a 10-year
search program that had begun a year before.

Part of the project, a survey of 1,000 nearby Sun-like stars,
was to have been managed by NASA's Ames Research Center in
Moffett Field, Calif., and carried out by the SETI Institute,
formed in 1984 as a conduit for scientists to obtain grants and
conduct astrobiology research. When NASA pulled out, the
astronomers at the SETI Institute decided to take the search
private.

In 1995, with grants from Silicon Valley titans like David
Packard, William Hewlett and Dr. Barney Oliver of Hewlett-
Packard; Gordon Moore, co-founder of Intel; and Paul G. Allen,
co-founder of Microsoft; as well as Arthur C. Clarke, the
science fiction author and inventor of the communications
satellite, the search was reborn as Project Phoenix.

The astronomers expect to finish surveying the original list in
the fall, but they are already laying plans for an expanded
survey of up to a million stars.

The survey will be performed by a dedicated array of 350 small
radio telescopes that will be built in conjunction with the
University of California at Berkeley, at its Hat Creek
Observatory near Mount Lassen in Northern California. The
telescope, which can be used for SETI and regular radio
astronomy, will be known as the Allen Telescope Array, after Mr.
Allen, who invested $11.5 million for developing the telescopes.

Meanwhile, the SETI Institute, with about 120 employees and an
annual budget of $10 million, not counting the cost of the new
telescope array, has grown into a powerhouse of astrobiological
research.

Its scientists say they have never had any trouble obtaining
support from NASA and the National Science Foundation for this
branch of their activities, which are as diverse as studying the
chemistry of interstellar clouds and ways to handle Martian soil
samples.

In all, the institute has more than 36 individual grants and
cooperative agreements with NASA, said Thomas Pierson, chairman
of the institute.

"Only our SETI work is (has been, actually) without federal
support for the past 10 years," Mr. Pierson wrote in an e-mail
message.

That exclusion has particularly stung, as NASA has embarked on
highly publicized programs to search for cosmic origins _ of
life, matter and everything else _ and begun planning for the
Terrestrial Planet Finder, which will search for Earth-like
planets.

The search for intelligent life in the cosmos was a logical part
of those endeavors, the staff argued, and should be eligible for
federal money.

"The questions SETI asks are a natural component of the
questions that get asked in astrobiology," said Dr. Christopher
F. Chyba, a Stanford professor who is head of astrobiology
research at the SETI Institute.

As an indication of changing fortunes, astronomers point to
remarks that Dr. Weiler made at the House subcommittee hearing
on July 12, 2001. Dr. Weiler made clear in the session that the
Congressional ban on SETI applied just to 1994.

"NASA is no longer prohibited by any congressional language from
considering funding SETI research," he said, "so SETI is
currently eligible and considered fairly under peer review for
NASA opportunities."

The next year, a National Academy of Sciences report, "Life in
the Universe, an Assessment of U.S. and International Programs
in Astrobiology," called the SETI Institute a "unique endeavor"
and an "important national resource in astrobiology."

The search for intelligent life, it said, is "the most romantic
and publicly accessible aspect of the search for life, yet is
perhaps the most problematic."

"It would be dissembling," the report added, "to say the least,
to discourage such a search (especially one enabled by private
funding) at the same time that astrobiology as a whole taps into
the same emotions and aspirations to excite the public about the
general search for life's origins, evolution and cosmic
ubiquity."

Last year, the idea of searching for intelligent signals was
explicitly endorsed in the newest version of "The NASA
Astrobiology Roadmap," an outline of questions and goals
assembled by 200 astrobiologists inside and outside NASA as a
guide to research.

Although technology may be rare in the universe, its effects may
nevertheless be easier to detect from a distance than biological
ones.

"Accordingly," the roadmap said, "current methods should be
further developed and novel methods should be identified for
detecting electromagnetic radiation or other diagnostic
artifacts that indicate remote technological civilizations."

The selection of the SETI Institute as part of the Astrobiology
Institute is more evidence, Dr. Chyba said, that "there has been
a sea change in attitudes toward SETI, as evidenced by the
`Astrobiology Roadmap' and, explicitly, by NASA."

The higher end of evolution, intelligence, has been missing from
astrobiology, he said, adding, "We're bringing it to the
institute now for the first time."

In a statement from the institute, Dr. Jill Tarter, a radio
astronomer who directs the search program, called the selection
"the stamp of approval that what we started so long ago is a
really good idea."

"The cross-fertilization of all these disciplines," Dr. Tarter
said, "pays big dividends."


[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 8

                Re: 'UFO Program' At Laurentian University? -

From: Daniel Corbett <dannycorbett@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 17:01:27 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 17:23:32 -0400
Subject: Re: 'UFO Program' At Laurentian University? -


>From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 08:14:37 -0400
>Subject: 'UFO Program' At Laurentian University?

>Hi -

>A caller to an overnight talk show made a quick reference to a
>"UFO programme" (which might simply be one course) at Laurentian
>University in Sudbury, Ontario.  Anyone know if that reference
>is true?

>How common are such courses, if it is a single course? Is there
>a list of universities with such courses posted?


Maybe this affiliate?

http://laurentian.ca/cce/Courses/SpringDE/RLST.html


RLST 2326 EL 10
Dimensions of the Paranormal
TBA " Thorneloe University
This course critically examines the religious and cultural
significance of paranormal phenomena (such as near-death
experience, telepathy, clairvoyance, UFO contact and abduction).
By studying first-hand accounts, films, academic studies, and
selected new paranormal religious movements, students will
critically assess both the nature of the evidence and the
different ways of accounting for it: mythic-religious,
scientific, philosophic, and psychoanalytic. (3 credits)
Method of evaluation
book review (1000 words) 30%
essay (1500-2000 words) 40%
final exam 30%
Required texts
Sheldrake, R., Seven Experiments That Could Change the World
Talbot, M., The Holographic Universe
Selected Readings for RLST 2326









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 8

             Re: What Is Real In Ufology?-McGonagle - McGonagle

From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk>
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:36:38 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 18:07:43 -0400
Subject: Re: What Is Real In Ufology?-McGonagle - McGonagle


>From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br
>To: UFO UpDates -Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 10:50:10 -0300
>Subject: What Is Real In Ufology?

>Dear friends

>I=B4m writing an article for the Brazilian UFO magazine the title
>"What Is Real In Ufology?". I'd like to hear your opinion. I put
>this question to Brazilian discussion lists and I received a lot
>of different viewpoints.

>Can you help me?

>Regards

Hello, Eustaquio/list,

There is no single answer to your question, though there are a
myriad of possible, substantiable answers.The following is my
incomplete attempt:

1. Most importantly, the people are real-witnesses,
investigators, scientists, commentators, and officials.Each of
these have a vested interest in a case in which they become
involved. Witnesses tend to be defensive, conscious that some
may think that they have hallucinated or are mentally unstable.
Sometimes this leads to inaccurate reporting of their
experience, in an effort to emphasise the real significance of
their experience. Investigators may be either sceptical,
endeavouring to find a rational solution to the case or they may
be completely subjective, striving to prove the case for the
existence and active intervention of extraterrestrial entities.
Scientists are naturally conscious of maintaining the respect of
their peers, and usually reluctant to appear supportive of an
unknown stimulus for a given case. Commentators are often out to
gain kudos by gaining "the scoop" on their competitors, and
inclined to exaggerate elements of a case. Officials are often
wary of a) increasing their workload and b) upsetting their
superiors, so they generally present a nonchalant attitude to
the subject. With this mix of interests, it is only natural that
the field of ufology is so confused.

2. The events reported are generally real (discounting
deliberate hoaxes). I mean real in terms that there was some
stimulus which generated the report, not that the reports are
neccessarily caused by exotic phenomena (though this could be
the case in a minority of events).

3. The desire for an ET solution is, in my opinion real. Many
people would like the security that would be provided by the
existence of super-beings, able to right all of the wrongs
perpetrated by "bad" people. This springs from a desire for
ultimate justice. How many times have you seen some idiot
driving irresponsibly, risking the lives of other road users,
and wished that you would see them 3 miles up the road having
collided with a bridge support? The craving for a system of
natural justice is, I believe, a major feature of our psyche and
may be responsible for some of the drive towards arriving at an
ET solution.


I hope you find this useful,

Joe








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 9

                            Re: UFORC - Anderson

From: Paul Anderson <psa@cccrn.ca>
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 16:54:10 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 01:13:00 -0400
Subject: Re: UFORC - Anderson


>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 13:49:56 -0700
>Subject: Re: UFORC

>Hello Paul:

>Sorry for any misunderstanding!

>My point particular point there was that UFORC was taking other
>people's materials, freely available elsewhere, and charging
>their visitors to see them!

>UFORC reproduced several CCCRN pages. I grabbed one as an
>example, and didn't mean to imply that was junk.

>Did UFORC get permission from CCCRN to mirror their pages? If
>so, fine. Otherwise, they just copied them uninvited. I pretty
>much dredged the entire UFORC site to see if they had 'borrowed'
>any of my work for their PayPal visitors. I found none of that
>yet.

>The UFORC 'largest UFO database in the world' (all 68 pages
>worth) appears to be gathered at random, without regard to
>quality and relevance. They might even put up something good by
>chance.

>While I don't put much stock in Crop Circles personally, I did
>not mean to trash the people who study them or their work.

>Here's the UFO Advisory Panel again (the link you refer to says
>"Consult with our panel of UFO experts..")

> http://www.uforc.com/ufoap/index.html

>I didn't really think you were on that list. [burp] Sorry for
>that unnecessary zinger also.

>Again, does anybody know much about these people? I mean from
>memory, short of doing a Google Search. I can do that from here.

>Best wishes

>- Larry Hatch


Hi Larry,

Ok, that's fine. Thanks for the clarification. Offhand I can't
recall if they did ask to use any of our material, they may
have, need to check on that again (that was a few years ago
now). I think I may have said ok re the text newsletters (CCCRN
News), but the graphics are taken off the site itself, with
wrong credits, at least some I've seen. I also don't like
charging access to web sites, just not my cup of tea personally,
even for original material, but especially if you have to pay
just to get info that is freely available elsewhere. What is
wrong with that picture??

I see references on their site to input on many programs, etc.,
but don't recall ever seeing them in any documentaries or
anything. What does get me is when someone (anybody, but in this
case Mr. Montgomery) can call themselves the "world's leading
UFO authority", yet nobody in the research community apparently
even knows anything about them...!

Paul








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 9

                       Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:41:45 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 01:14:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Kaeser


>From: Chris Evans <chrisevans@zoominternet.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 12:41:11 -0400
>Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants'

<snip>

>What I glean from the various positions, being expressed, is
>that there appears to be a 'preconception' about the makeup of
>the implants. Since we don't (as we have said) have an initial
>set of parameters, going in; then, truly, the sky is the limit.
>Meaning, how can we prescribe any sort of criteria for something
>we know nothing about, with reference to the means of operation
>and source of presumed control? That should be extended to the
>presence of (or lack of) isotopes; since, after all, these
>usually represent less stable states, in our own environment, in
>many cases - of which, coincidentally, persists as the
>environment of presumed operation.

Certainly we have no idea what type of materials an "alien"
would use, so nothing can be ruled out. The hope has been
expressed that "alien" debris will show some un-earthly quality,
which would rule out materials that are "earthly". Of course,
there's no reason to believe that it should be (per se).
However, that would be a good piece of "smoking gun" evidence.

<snip>

>>Of course,
>>testing is expensive and it appears that NIDS has chosen to
>>utilize it's resources elsewhere.
>>Steve

>I would only be guessing what you mean by "utilizing it's
>resources elsewhere." I hope you will elaborate . . . .

That's a question that is better put to Colm, but I believe that
NIDS is focusing it's efforts on sighting and trace case
investigations. However, good cases are few and far between. As
I've mentioned in other posts, the NIDS web site has an
excellent collection of relatively recent papers and reports. As
we've seen, there are disagreements with some of the positions
that are taken. But this is all part of a much larger debate, as
we all try to define something that we can't even identify.

>I have enjoyed your insights.

Thanks. I'm just a passenger on this bus and (like everyone
else) I hope its going somewhere interesting.


Steve








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 9

             Re: Conventioneers Share Alien Theories - Friedman

From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com>
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:57:31 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 01:19:36 -0400
Subject: Re: Conventioneers Share Alien Theories - Friedman


>From: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>To: <- UFO UpDates List ->
>Sent: 7-Jul-03 15:02
>Subject: UFO UpDate: Conventioneers Share Alien Theories


>Source: The Detroit Free Press

>http://www.freep.com/news/locway/nufo7_20030707.htm

>07-07-03

>Conventioneers Share Alien Theories

>Dearborn discussion is UFOs, crop circles

>By Zlati Meyer
>Free Press Staff Writer

>While millions of Americans were enjoying traditional July 4
>weekend amusements, a few hundred of them took part in that
>Earthling pasttime -- discussing alien lifeforms.

>They swapped Thomas Jefferson for the Mutual UFO Network's 34th
>Annual International conference held at the Hyatt Hotel in
>Dearborn from Friday through Sunday.

<snip>

Here is the letter I faxed the Detroit Free Press and emailed to
Zlati Meyer

FAX 1-313-222-6774
Letters to the Editor
Detroit Free Press

Dear Editor:                   July 8, 2003

As a nuclear physicist who spoke at the MUFON Symposium in
Dearborn, I am writing to correct several false claims in ZLATI
MEYER's article in the July 7, 2003, FP(5B):

1. Zlati claims that Dr. Bruce Maccabee was the only presenter
with an advanced degree. I spoke "Critiquing the Roswell
Critics", did a workshop "The Cosmic Watergate" and was on a
speaker panel. The Bio in the Symposium Proceedings notes that I
have an MSc. in Physics from the U. of Chicago. Presenter Linda
Howe is noted as having a Masters Degree in Communications from
Stanford University, and presenter W. C. Levengood is noted as
having MS and MA degrees.

2. The article claims that I said that "idiot Earthlings" killed
thousands of their own in WW II. What I actually said was that
we earthlings had clearly shown by then that we were a primitive
society whose major activity was tribal warfare. In the war we
had killed 50 million of our own kind and destroyed 1700 cities.
I noted that 3 signs of our rapidly advancing technology were
atom bombs, V-2 Rockets, and advanced radar. These indicate that
within 100 years we should be able to go to the stars. It hardly
seems a coincidence that the only place in the world where an
alien could check out all three in July,1947, was Southeastern
New Mexico, which includes Roswell.

3. During the conference I did indeed discuss electromagnetic
propulsion systems. My discussions are based on solid science
and engineering as I referenced in written presentations to a
Congressional Symposium on UFOs, and in articles in Physics
Today and Aeronautics and Astronautics and in earlier MUFON
Symposium papers..... There are loads of technical documents
dealing with the benefits of using electric and magnetic fields
to control the flow of an electrically conducting fluid (ionized
air) around vehicles in the atmosphere. Two em submarines have
been successfully tested. These involve a different electrically
conducting fluid, seawater. This is not pseudoscience as
claimed.

Cordially,

Stanton T. Friedman  fsphys@rogers.com
www.v-j-enterprises.com/sfpage.html








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 9

                   Re: What Is Real In Ufology? - Fleming

From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com>
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 21:41:17 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 01:21:50 -0400
Subject: Re: What Is Real In Ufology? - Fleming


>From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk>
>Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:36:38 +0100
>Fwd Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 18:07:43 -0400
>Subject: Re: What Is Real In Ufology?-McGonagle - McGonagle

>>From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br
>>To: UFO UpDates -Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 10:50:10 -0300
>>Subject: What Is Real In Ufology?

>Investigators may be either sceptical,
>endeavouring to find a rational solution to the case or they may
>be completely subjective, striving to prove the case for the
>existence and active intervention of extraterrestrial entities.

So investigators are either "skeptical" of the ETH OR they are
"subjective," and presumably irrational. And these two
categories are mutually exclusive? I don't think so. So-called
"skeptics" are no more likely to be objective or rational than
so-called "believers".

>The desire for an ET solution is, in my opinion real. Many
>people would like the security that would be provided by the
>existence of super-beings, able to right all of the wrongs
>perpetrated by "bad" people. This springs from a desire for
>ultimate justice. How many times have you seen some idiot
>driving irresponsibly, risking the lives of other road users,
>and wished that you would see them 3 miles up the road having
>collided with a bridge support?

And even more people might find the possibility of
extraterrestrial intelligence intrinsically interesting, while
harboring no expectations that ETs will somehow force bad
drivers use their turn signals.

One of the things that, for the most part, isn't real about
"ufology" is the skepticism. More often than not, it's only
pseudo-skepticism.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 9

                     Investigator's Right To Investigate

From: Mike Bird <mikebird@interlog.com>
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 02:33:00 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 07:11:40 -0400
Subject: Investigator's Right To Investigate


Hello UFO UpDates List...

I don't often post to the list. But I feel compelled to do so at
this time.

I was there this past Sunday at the MUFON Symposium when Linda
Moulton Howe made her presentation. She discussed two matters of
interest. Mysterious lights in Hessdalen Norway and the matter
of the claims of Urandir Oliveira, that he was taken from his
bed on Sept 15, 2002, by ET's, leaving traces on bedsheets and
ceilings and the falling of rocks.

Linda's presentation of the Hessdalen lights left me on the edge
of my seat. Something truely intriguing is happening there.

As for the Oliveira case I was fully aware of the advanced
criticism by A.J. Gaveard and others, that the case was a total
fraud.

Linda's presentation of the Oliveira case was very well done.
She never once intimated that the case was the smoking gun for
ufology. She presented a case based on the testimony of the
claiment, and on the complex analysis of the bedsheets and
rocks.

It could very well turn out that Oliveira's claims are
fradulent. But in the search for truth, all researchers should
be allowed the right to investigate, and to report on their
findings. I believe that A.J. Gaveard owes Linda Moulton Howe
and and all other UFO researchers an apology.

His efforts to smear and prevent Linda from presenting this case
to the MUFON Conference are unprecidented. It is an affront to
MUFON and to all researchers.

A.J. probably doesn't remember that he and I had lunch together
on the Sunday at the MUFON 96 Symposium in Greensboro NC. He
sent me his very interesting glossy UFO magazine for 2 years.
Unfortunately I don't read a word of Portugese. Unfortunately
and more importantly I don't think that glossy magazines quite
equates to gentlemanly behaviour.

In this work, if we have a problem with anyone's research, we
should not lose our composure, and attack the messenger. To do
so is childish and makes one suspect to personal agenda.

The data will always prevail. And gentlemanly dialogue is the
best approach.


Regards,

Mike Bird
MUFON Eastern Regional Director for Canada.


"We must say all the words that should be spoken, before they
are lost and gone forever" - Chris de Burgh in 'Shine On'.







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 9

                      Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Bourdais

From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr>
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 09:37:25 +0200
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 07:20:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Bourdais


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:55:10 -0400
>Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants'

>>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:30:18 +0200
>>Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants'

>>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
>>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>>>Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 10:31:32 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants'

><anip>

>Hello Gildas,

>You wrote:

>>To John, and List,

>>I don't understand how you can reach such a conclusion. You
>>should certainly read, first the book of Dr Leir, and then the
>>many articles which I listed in my text on Dr Leir.

>(If) there is anything anomalous or unusual about any of the
>alleged implants that Leir recovered, why hasn't he published in
>any peer review journals? He's a podiatrist/doctor, why hasn't
>he submitted a report or a white paper to JAMA for instance?
>(Journal of the American Medical Association)

>Why hasn't anything appeared in the headlines of the New York or
>L.A. Times? One would think that a discovery of this magnitude
>would make headlines worldwide. But no, we have to read Leir's
>'book' if we wish to learn anything. That certainly does take
>him off the hook in terms of having his work published in trade
>papers/magazines and peer reviewed doesn't it?

>I'm sorry but it just isn't good enough. If he has anything, let
>him put it out there to be checked out by other scientists,
>metallurgists, whoever.

Hello John,

In short :

Yes, there has been an independant metallurgical analysis at New
Mexico Tech. It has been published on the NIDS site, and in Dr
Leir's book. The metallurgical findings have been judged very
unusual by a competent expert that I know. So, it's not just a
story in his book.

As for an article in a peered scientific review, not to mention
a headline in the New York Times, you must be aware of the
difficulty. Especially for a simple podiatrist, rather isolated,
so it seems, NIDS having withdrawn its support.


Regards,

Gildas






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 9

              Re: Conventioneers Share Alien Theories - LeFevre

From: Charlette LeFevre <clefevre@oz.net>
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 01:08:31 -0700 (MST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 07:22:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Conventioneers Share Alien Theories - LeFevre


>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:57:31 -0300
>Subject: Re: Conventioneers Share Alien Theories

>>From: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>To: <- UFO UpDates List ->
>>Sent: 7-Jul-03 15:02
>>Subject: UFO UpDate: Conventioneers Share Alien Theories

>>Source: The Detroit Free Press

>>http://www.freep.com/news/locway/nufo7_20030707.htm

>>07-07-03

>>Conventioneers Share Alien Theories

>>Dearborn discussion is UFOs, crop circles

>>By Zlati Meyer
>>Free Press Staff Writer

>>While millions of Americans were enjoying traditional July 4
>>weekend amusements, a few hundred of them took part in that
>>Earthling pasttime -- discussing alien lifeforms.

>>They swapped Thomas Jefferson for the Mutual UFO Network's 34th
>>Annual International conference held at the Hyatt Hotel in
>>Dearborn from Friday through Sunday.

><snip>

>Here is the letter I faxed the Detroit Free Press and emailed to
>Zlati Meyer

>FAX 1-313-222-6774
>Letters to the Editor
>Detroit Free Press

>Dear Editor:                   July 8, 2003

>As a nuclear physicist who spoke at the MUFON Symposium in
>Dearborn, I am writing to correct several false claims in ZLATI
>MEYER's article in the July 7, 2003, FP(5B):

>1. Zlati claims that Dr. Bruce Maccabee was the only presenter
>with an advanced degree. I spoke "Critiquing the Roswell
>Critics", did a workshop "The Cosmic Watergate" and was on a
>speaker panel. The Bio in the Symposium Proceedings notes that I
>have an MSc. in Physics from the U. of Chicago. Presenter Linda
>Howe is noted as having a Masters Degree in Communications from
>Stanford University, and presenter W. C. Levengood is noted as
>having MS and MA degrees.

>2. The article claims that I said that "idiot Earthlings" killed
>thousands of their own in WW II. What I actually said was that
>we earthlings had clearly shown by then that we were a primitive
>society whose major activity was tribal warfare. In the war we
>had killed 50 million of our own kind and destroyed 1700 cities.
>I noted that 3 signs of our rapidly advancing technology were
>atom bombs, V-2 Rockets, and advanced radar. These indicate that
>within 100 years we should be able to go to the stars. It hardly
>seems a coincidence that the only place in the world where an
>alien could check out all three in July,1947, was Southeastern
>New Mexico, which includes Roswell.

>3. During the conference I did indeed discuss electromagnetic
>propulsion systems. My discussions are based on solid science
>and engineering as I referenced in written presentations to a
>Congressional Symposium on UFOs, and in articles in Physics
>Today and Aeronautics and Astronautics and in earlier MUFON
>Symposium papers..... There are loads of technical documents
>dealing with the benefits of using electric and magnetic fields
>to control the flow of an electrically conducting fluid (ionized
>air) around vehicles in the atmosphere. Two em submarines have
>been successfully tested. These involve a different electrically
>conducting fluid, seawater. This is not pseudoscience as
>claimed.

>Cordially,

>Stanton T. Friedman  fsphys@rogers.com
>www.v-j-enterprises.com/sfpage.html

Stanton,

I believe the journalist mentions specifically the absence of
Ph.Ds presenting in which case your first comment supports Zlati
Meyer's observance and even so she still makes her point of the
disparity of MUFON's boasts and what it actually presents.

I am sure though she appreciates your fax and would have
appreciated your presentation on ionized seawater.

No doubt the analytical analysis of polyester threads of a
Brazilian bed sheet would have impressed her such that she would
have written an absolutely glowing article on MUFON and its
credentialed presenters proving the scientific reality of UFOs
once and for all.

Charlette LeFevre

B.A. Research and Design
Ohio Academy of Science 1982






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 9

                               Piloting UFOs?

From: A. J. Gevaerd Revista UFO<gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:39:47 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 07:51:26 -0400
Subject: Piloting UFOs?


Please note the quote from The Detroit News, about Richard
McVannel, organizer of Michigan's MUFON conference:

>Source: The Detroit News
>http://www.detnews.com/2003/wayne/0307/02/d03-207118.htm

>Tuesday, July 1, 2003
>UFO Convention Lands In Dearborn
>Network expected to draw 500 believers to 34th annual event

>By Joel Kurth - The Detroit News

<snip>

>Membership in the UFO Network's Michigan chapter has increased to about 110
>from 70 in the last few years, said Rich McVannel, 59, a building material
>salesman from Boyne City who says he's been abducted repeatedly and has piloted
>spaceships.


That would certainly explain a lot of things. Don't you think?

A. J.







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 9

              Re: Investigator's Right To Investigate - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:23:31 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 12:06:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Investigator's Right To Investigate - Kaeser


>From: Mike Bird <mikebird@interlog.com>
>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 02:33:00 -0400
>Subject: Investigator's Right To Investigate

<snip>

>In this work, if we have a problem with anyone's research, we
>should not lose our composure, and attack the messenger. To do
>so is childish and makes one suspect to personal agenda.

>The data will always prevail. And gentlemanly dialogue is the
>best approach.


Mike,

I agree with the thrust of your comment, and agree that there is
far too much personality bashing going on in this field, which
allows irrational skeptics to sit back and watch the show with
glee.

Unfortunately, the field also finds itself severely impacted by
the "cult" aspect of the genre, which further damages any hope
we have for scientific acceptance. Evidence and scientific
analysis should be accepted for review from any source, IMO, but
it must stand up against hard questioning and further analysis
by others.

In Roswell, during the 1997 50th Anniversary celebration (or
Circus), a much ballyhooed presentation was made by a
metallurgical expert as to the properties of "debris" that was
allegedly from an alien craft. After the presentation, that
"expert" was quickly rushed out the back door and driven to a
regional airport where he got on a plane and flew home. It turns
out that the "expert" was a research assistant, and the entire
matter turned into a rather sick joke. To her credit, Linda
Moulton Howe had expressed serious reservations about going
public at that time, and felt that further research into the
debris needed to be completed. But press releases had already
been sent out, and all many of us could do was shake our heads
in disbelief at the damage this was likely to do. Proper
analysis might have actually shown something interesting, but
that had to occur at a higher level and at that point no one was
going to pursue it.

I think that it's too bad that the MUFON Symposium has become a
social event, rather than a true scientific symposium. The real
"science" involved in this research is very dry and often not
easy to understand. And it certainly wouldn't attract many
individuals who merely have an interest in the field.

Maybe one day.....

Steve








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 9

                  Re: What Is Real In Ufology? - McGonagle

From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk>
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 15:02:40 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 12:28:06 -0400
Subject: Re: What Is Real In Ufology? - McGonagle


>From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 21:41:17 -0500
>Subject: Re: What Is Real In Ufology?

>>From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk>
>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:36:38 +0100
>>Subject: Re: What Is Real In Ufology?


>>Investigators may be either sceptical,
>>endeavouring to find a rational solution to the case or they may
>>be completely subjective, striving to prove the case for the
>>existence and active intervention of extraterrestrial entities.

>So investigators are either "skeptical" of the ETH OR they are
>"subjective," and presumably irrational. And these two
>categories are mutually exclusive? I don't think so. So-called
>"skeptics" are no more likely to be objective or rational than
>so-called "believers".

Here is the definition of "sceptic" from my edition of the
Pelica... er, Penguin concise English dictionary:

"One who will not accept any statement without rigorous proof;
one who doubts a specified religion, philosophy, or theory".

The meaning of what I wrote in relation to the mention of
scepticism is any investigator seeking rigorous proof of their
conclusion, even if their conclusion is that "ET did it". My
reference to subjective investigation (in this case directly
referring to propounders of the ETH) is intended to apply to
anyone approaching a case without requiring rigorous proof of
any conclusion, whether that conclusion is "ET did it",
"Pelicans bellies", or "swamp gas".

>>The desire for an ET solution is, in my opinion real. Many
>>people would like the security that would be provided by the
>>existence of super-beings, able to right all of the wrongs
>>perpetrated by "bad" people. This springs from a desire for
>>ultimate justice. How many times have you seen some idiot
>>driving irresponsibly, risking the lives of other road users,
>>and wished that you would see them 3 miles up the road having
>>collided with a bridge support?

>And even more people might find the possibility of
>extraterrestrial intelligence intrinsically interesting, while
>harboring no expectations that ETs will somehow force bad
>drivers use their turn signals.

You miss my point. How many direct encounters with supposed
alien entities have resulted in them healing illness, warning
about the use of nuclear energy, or other ecological damage?
There are even cases involving the disarming of nuclear weapons
by advanced technological means. My point is that for some
people, they represent the salvation of the human race, in the
same way that Jesus Christ does. Take a look at the Aetherius
Society, and the "space hoovers" that are cleaning up our
atmosphere from the human-generated contamination, for
example.Why do you think people believe this sort of thing? My
argument is that there is a deep-seated psychological craving
for a super-being to address the ills of the world. This is the
basis of all religions, and doesn't only apply to believers of
the ETH, but is inherent in man as a race. Note that I am not
suggesting that all ETH believers hold this view, but a
significant proportion of them do.

>One of the things that, for the most part, isn't real about
>"ufology" is the skepticism. More often than not, it's only
>pseudo-skepticism.

I'd be interested to see your definition of "pseudo-skepticism"
in the context of the definition of "sceptic" above, and
"rigorous proof" of your assertion that scepticism in ufology is
not real.


Regards,

Joe








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 9

               Re: Investigator's Right To Investigate - Keith

From: Rebecca Keith <xiannekei@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:43:43 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 12:30:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Investigator's Right To Investigate - Keith


>From: Mike Bird <mikebird@interlog.com>
>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 02:33:00 -0400
>Subject: Investigator's Right To Investigate

<snip>

>It could very well turn out that Oliveira's claims are
>fradulent. But in the search for truth, all researchers should
>be allowed the right to investigate, and to report on their
>findings. I believe that A.J. Gaveard owes Linda Moulton Howe
>and and all other UFO researchers an apology.

While I didn't see Linda's presentation, I don't think A.J. owes
Linda anything.

In the search for truth, as you put it, researchers have
investigated and reported their findings in this case. It's just
that we still haven't heard the whole story from Linda's side.

>His efforts to smear and prevent Linda from presenting this case
>to the MUFON Conference are unprecidented. It is an affront to
>MUFON and to all researchers.

Did Linda mention who paid for her "research" trip to Brazil?
Can an investigator be fair when the one making the claims is
paying the bills?

<snip>

>In this work, if we have a problem with anyone's research, we
>should not lose our composure, and attack the messenger. To do
>so is childish and makes one suspect to personal agenda.

>The data will always prevail. And gentlemanly dialogue is the
>best approach.

As long as we see all the data!

And I disagree with the gentlemanly dialogue comment. I'm not
sure what you are implying with that, but I infer that you think
we should all ask nice questions and wait for nice little
answers. If so, then I really disagree. The data demands the
tough questions and direct answers.

What I haven't liked about this discussion about U.F.O.'s claims
is that the twos sides seem to be talking at one another through
websites and mailing lists and not dealing with each other
directly. While it has been very enjoyable to see both sides of
this issue -- not to mention enlightening -- I wonder what could
have been accomplished without the rhetoric with both sides
answering the others questions directly. IOWs, why hasn't Linda
defended her position in a more direct manner? We've seen her
website (what can be seen without paying), heard her on the
radio, and seen other folks defend her on this list, but have
all quesions been addressed? Not by a longshot.

FWIW, I think the points made A.J. and Charlotte in Washington
state have been good ones and have not been addressed completely
by Linda.


Rebecca







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 9

             Re: Conventioneers Share Alien Theories - Friedman

From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com>
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:52:59 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 12:34:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Conventioneers Share Alien Theories - Friedman


>From: Charlette LeFevre <clefevre@oz.net>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 01:08:31 -0700 (MST)
>Subject: Re: Conventioneers Share Alien Theories

>>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:57:31 -0300
>>Subject: Re: Conventioneers Share Alien Theories

<snip>

>>Here is the letter I faxed the Detroit Free Press and emailed to
>>Zlati Meyer

>>FAX 1-313-222-6774
>>Letters to the Editor
>>Detroit Free Press

>>Dear Editor:                   July 8, 2003

>>As a nuclear physicist who spoke at the MUFON Symposium in
>>Dearborn, I am writing to correct several false claims in ZLATI
>>MEYER's article in the July 7, 2003, FP(5B):

>>1. Zlati claims that Dr. Bruce Maccabee was the only presenter
>>with an advanced degree. I spoke "Critiquing the Roswell
>>Critics", did a workshop "The Cosmic Watergate" and was on a
>>speaker panel. The Bio in the Symposium Proceedings notes that I
>>have an MSc. in Physics from the U. of Chicago. Presenter Linda
>>Howe is noted as having a Masters Degree in Communications from
>>Stanford University, and presenter W. C. Levengood is noted as
>>having MS and MA degrees.

>>2. The article claims that I said that "idiot Earthlings" killed
>>thousands of their own in WW II. What I actually said was that
>>we earthlings had clearly shown by then that we were a primitive
>>society whose major activity was tribal warfare. In the war we
>>had killed 50 million of our own kind and destroyed 1700 cities.
>>I noted that 3 signs of our rapidly advancing technology were
>>atom bombs, V-2 Rockets, and advanced radar. These indicate that
>>within 100 years we should be able to go to the stars. It hardly
>>seems a coincidence that the only place in the world where an
>>alien could check out all three in July,1947, was Southeastern
>>New Mexico, which includes Roswell.

>>3. During the conference I did indeed discuss electromagnetic
>>propulsion systems. My discussions are based on solid science
>>and engineering as I referenced in written presentations to a
>>Congressional Symposium on UFOs, and in articles in Physics
>>Today and Aeronautics and Astronautics and in earlier MUFON
>>Symposium papers..... There are loads of technical documents
>>dealing with the benefits of using electric and magnetic fields
>>to control the flow of an electrically conducting fluid (ionized
>>air) around vehicles in the atmosphere. Two em submarines have
>>been successfully tested. These involve a different electrically
>>conducting fluid, seawater. This is not pseudoscience as
>>claimed.

>I believe the journalist mentions specifically the absence of
>Ph.Ds presenting in which case your first comment supports Zlati
>Meyer's observance and even so she still makes her point of the
>disparity of MUFON's boasts and what it actually presents.

>I am sure though she appreciates your fax and would have
>appreciated your presentation on ionized seawater.

>No doubt the analytical analysis of polyester threads of a
>Brazilian bed sheet would have impressed her such that she would
>have written an absolutely glowing article on MUFON and its
>credentialed presenters proving the scientific reality of UFOs
>once and for all.


I have always been under the impression that a Masters Degree is
an advanced degree. The term "advanced degree" does not, at
least to me, apply only to a PhD, but applies to all degrees
beyond a Bachelors.

Please note that I did not use the strange term "ionized
seawater". I said "electrically conducting fluid", which is an
accurate description of seawater.

I realize that you have been attacking Linda and supporting
A.J., apparently without having read her paper. Surely one
should have facts in hand before putting word processor in
gear?


Stan Friedman
www.v-j-enterprises.com/sfpage.html







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 9

               Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens -

From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:20:8 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 12:38:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens -


>From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 10:38:43 +0100
>Subject: Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens

>>From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 00:45:25 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens

>>>From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk>
>>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 19:12:48 +0100
>>>Subject: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens

>>Whilst this is a fascinating case, I can assure you that there
>>was no question of any RAF aircraft trying to shoot down UFOs.

>The Observer's line about aircraft trying to shoot down UFOs
>originates in another incident, involving a USAF F-86 Sabre
>pilot, during the period 1956-57. He was ordered, by an RAF
>Ground Controlled Intercept station to fire his full salvo of
>'mighty mouse' rockets at a UFO tracked over East Anglia.

>The full testimony of the pilot, Milton Torres, can be found at:

>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/1998/jun/m07-034.shtml

>As far as I'm aware there is no official confirmation of this
>incident from the British or American records.

>But I'm sure the list would be interested to learn that "there
>was no question of any RAF aircraft trying to shoot down UFOs."

>That would suggest you have had access to material on this, or
>related incidents from the '50s that, we are assured, were
>destroyed in 1961. Paul Harris of the Observer was told these
>were lost "in a fire".

>Did you ever see any files or records related to the Lakenheath
>incident during your incumbency at Sec(AS)2?

>>I was contacted by BBC Radio 5 Live after this story ran (I
>>didn't see it in my copy of The Observer, and believe it only
>>ran on the paper's website). I did a brief down the line
>>interview with them, to set the record straight.

>Full credit for the location of the addition USAF documents on
>the Lakenheath and Bornholm radar incidents should go to Jan
>Aldrich, who continues to work hard unearthing material from
>long lost archives.

>Jan and I have lodged FOIA requests for the outstanding
>documents relating to the incidents, held by the National
>Archives.

>All the original documents related to this case can be found at:

>http://www.parcellular.fsnet.co.uk/Lakenheath.htm

>The site contains more than 270 text and image files, including,
>in addition to the original USAF intelligence reports and other
>Blue Book documents:

>22 new official British Royal Air Force and Ministry of Defence
>documents;

>36 new interview transcripts and statements from pilots, ground
>personnel and operations staff;

>23 web-pages of in-depth commentary and analysis, fully
>interlinked;

>14 pages of meteorological data, with detailed tables, charts
>and analysis;

>14 pages of detailed radar and avionics specifications;

>30 archived letters between investigators and principal
>witnesses between 1975 and 2001;

>Plus much more, with numerous links and bibliographical
>references to research material.

>Much credit is due to Martin Shough who has put many hours into
>collecting and assembling this material.


Tom Tulien and I interviewed Milton Torres for the Sign Oral
History Project. He is on a university faculty and holds various
aviation safety patents. His story was straight forward and
without embellishments. If he was unsure of certain details, he
said so. He told us the wing man who normally flew with him does
not recall this incident. So he thinks, on the date in question,
he was flying with another wing man with whom he had several
missions. The scramble was during bad weather and it was not a
training mission.

He was interviewed after the incident by a US government agent
but not an Air Force official. He was never questioned by Air
Force officials. No record of this incident appears in the
Project Blue Book files, but that is not an indication of
anything as even a number official serial numbered Air Force
intelligence reports on UFOs do not appear in the Blue Book
files.

He mentioned that the radar target was the brightest he had ever
seen which led us to believe that might be radar "spoofing"
involved here. He had already considered that as a possibility.
However, to conduct such an operation during bad weather might
not be the wisest from a safety point of view so that mitigates
against such an operation.

As for Nick assuring us that there is no question RAF aircraft
shooting down UFOs. There are three things wrong with this
statement.

1) Nick's position was not one that necessarily gives him a
"need to know" what policies exist(ed) on this subject. Milton
Torres wasn't told anything about the incident. I can say this
right off, no GCI controller nor site commander had this
independent authority to order such an engagement. The orders
had to come from way above that level or already be firmly
established in policy.

2) Nick reminds us that he was/is subject to the "Official
Secrets Act." So even if he had no knowledge of such an order,
he could not probably not reveal such. (Catch 22 as us Colonists
like to say.)

3) This was not a RAF aircraft but a USAF aircraft, since the US
was flying in support of the UK, policies on this kind of thing
had be established in bilateral agreements and spelled out in
rather solid terms. Again, secret protocols would not be
normally be available to every government civil servant.


Jan Aldrich

Project 1947
http://www.project1947.com/
P. O. Box 391
Canterbury, CT 06331
(860) 546-9135







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 9

                       Crab Blood Can Be Alien Hunter

From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk>
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 15:10:18 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 12:41:13 -0400
Subject: Crab Blood Can Be Alien Hunter


From the Newsgroups:

From: "Knud" <Knud@nowhere.com>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.research
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 1:44 PM
Subject: Scientists: Crab Blood Can Be Alien Hunter


Scientists: Crab Blood Can Be Alien Hunter

Updated 7:28 AM ET July 9, 2003

- One hundred million years before dinosaurs pounded upon the
Earth, the humble horseshoe crab scuttled along its shores. Soon
the blood of this primitive creature could be used to detect
primitive life on faraway planets.


"One of the reasons the horseshoe crab has survived for so long
is its advanced immune system," said Norman Wainwright, a senior
scientist at the Marine Biological Laboratory (MBL) in Woods
Hole, Mass. "This system can be used to find microbial life."

When one of these armored arthropods is injured, bleeding and
exposed to bug-laden ocean water, its blue blood hardens and
keeps infection out.

The crab's trick takes the form of a cascade of enzymes that
causes clotting when it encounters cell wall material of most
bacteria, yeast and mold.

Run By Freeze-Dried Enzymes

Since the 1950s, the unique coagulating reaction of the
horseshoe crab's blood has been tapped by pharmaceutical
companies to test the purity of sterilized medical equipment and
products. Now scientists have packaged the blood's enzymes into
a hand-held instrument that can test for signs of life.

"If there are microbial species that evolved outside the Earth,
that life may have originated here and spread throughout the
solar system," said Wainwright. "It's possible the cells walls
of microbes on other planets may be similar enough to detect
using the test."

The calculator-sized device developed by researchers at MBL and
Charles River Laboratories in Wilmington, Mass., is filled with
the unique set of enzymes contained inside horseshoe crab blood.
To supply the tools, scientists insert a large needle into the
crab's heart and extract up to 300 milliliters of blood per
crab. The crabs are then released back into the ocean.

Although the process sounds traumatic, most of the helmeted
animals survive the ordeal, says Robert Barlow, a State
University of New York neurobiologist who conducts research on
horseshoe crabs at the MBL.

"There's about a 10 percent mortality rate," he said.

The enzymes are then isolated from the blood, extracted and
freeze dried. When inserted into the instrument, rather than
coagulate blood, the enzymes cause a clear solution to turn
bright yellow when encountering microbes.

"The more yellow the sample, the more microbes it's finding,"
Wainwright said.

Past Probes Tested for Life

Using the blood of one of Earth's oldest creatures may not seem
particularly high-tech, but the test holds at least one key
advantage over other methods - it's fast.

The horseshoe crab blood instrument has been used, for example,
to ensure spacecraft are free of any Earthly microbes before
heading to space and other planets. Once a swabbed sample is
inserted, the instrument provides a reading within 15 minutes.
Other tests that involve waiting for cultured samples to develop
normally take three days or longer.

Barlow says that MBL and Charles River scientists have
volunteered their device to test the purity of spacecraft mostly
to "get a foot in the door" at NASA so they might eventually
send a unit to outer space.

Wainwright and Barlow have even taken a microgravity flight on
the so- called vomit comet (a modified jet whose pilot provides
passengers with a sense of weightlessness by flying a parabolic
course at high altitude) and found it functions fine with
limited gravity.

The last time a Mars probe directly tested for signs of life was
on board NASA's Viking 1 and Viking 2 crafts that landed on Mars
in the 1970s. Neither of the probes' experiments, which tested
for particular amino acids, produced any evidence of life.

The two NASA probes that are now on their way to Mars will
mainly be searching for signs of water. The European Space
Agency's Beagle 2, meanwhile, hosts instruments that will search
the planet for signs of methane - a calling card of active life.

NASA officials say the two probes that will touch down in
January 2004 are paving the way for future probes that will
begin an aggressive search for life. It's on one of these
spacecraft that Wainwright hopes the horseshoe crab blood
instrument might catch a ride to the Red Planet.

Jason Dworkin, an astrobiologist at NASA's Goddard Space Flight
Center in Greenbelt, Md., explains that because possible alien
life remains mysterious in form, NASA will need an array of
tests to seek it out.

"Life that we don't understand is difficult to recognize. It's
hard to identify something if you don't know precisely what it
is," Dworkin said. "So new tests are always useful."

Cutting the Catch

Of course, to guarantee the instrument is around when the next
batch of probes rocket to Mars, scientists need to ensure
horseshoe crab populations remain robust.

The horseshoe crab is undoubtedly a hardy creature - having
survived 250 million years of evolution. The crab can go a year
without eating and can endure extreme temperatures and salinity.
But scientists say years of overfishing of the horseshoe crab
for use as conch and eel bait have depleted the arthropods'
numbers.

The Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission is now
considering recommendations from a panel of scientists to cut
harvests by more than half. The cuts will be considered in
December and if approved, would apply from Virginia to New York.


http://dailynews.att.net/cgi-bin/news?e=pri&dt=030709&cat=us&st=ushorseshoecrab0
30709&src=abc








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 9

                        Sky & Telescope 'Facing Mars'

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@charter.net>
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:30:20 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 12:44:25 -0400
Subject: Sky & Telescope 'Facing Mars'


Hello All,

I just bought the August issue of Sky and Telescope. E.C.Krupp
does a Sceptibunking article - what else - on the idea of
artifical structures on Mars. He also demolishes - unfortunately
not without justification - Richard '19.5' Hogland.

He does not curiously, use any current pictures from the Mars
Global Surveyor for instance, and just focuses on the history of
the "Face" ala Hogland. In Mr. Krupp's world, there is
apparently no room for anything else besides a natural
expliantion.

However a run at the Sky and Telescope website pulls some 1800
"hits" on the 'Face' - hmmm. For something that doesn't exsist?


GT McCoy
Save the Olympus Mons Chub!- if it exsists of course.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 9

                   'Liquidation Of The UFO Investigators'?

From: Loren Coleman <lcolema1@maine.rr.com>
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 10:40:42 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 12:45:49 -0400
Subject: 'Liquidation Of The UFO Investigators'?


Can anyone share with me an electronic, scanned, or photocopied
copy of Otto Binder's 1971 Saga article, 'Liquidation of the UFO
Investigators'? A Word .doc attachment would be great.


Thank you,

Loren

Loren Coleman
PO Box 360
Portland, ME 04112








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 9

               Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens -

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 12:41:44 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 12:48:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens -


>From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 00:45:25 +0100
>Subject: Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens

>>From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 19:12:48 +0100
>>Subject: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens

>Whilst this is a fascinating case, I can assure you that there
>was no question of any RAF aircraft trying to shoot down UFOs.

Hi Nick, David, List,

The Observer's line about aircraft trying to shoot down UFOs
originates in another incident, involving a USAF F-86 Sabre
pilot, during the period 1956-57. He was ordered, by an RAF
Ground Controlled Intercept station to fire his full salvo of
'mighty mouse' rockets at a UFO tracked over East Anglia.

The full testimony of the pilot, Milton Torres, can be found at:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/1998/jun/m07-034.shtml

As far as I'm aware there is no official confirmation of this
incident from the British or American records.

But I'm sure the List would be interested to learn that "there
was no question of any RAF aircraft trying to shoot down UFOs."

I doubt if after the fact there would be any official
confirmation by any government that their airforce was
attempting to shoot down UFOs over populated areas even though
they could get away with such acts back in the 50s and early
60s. I have another similar case here where an RCN Sea Fury was
armed with rockets and two crews rotated for 24 hours a day for
a month waiting for another UFO to show up that they could chase
and try and shoot down over the Halifax/ Dartmouth area of Nova
Scotia. This was in 1951 according to the military air traffic
controller who relayed the information to me.

Those interested in this incident and the incidents leading up
to it can contact me off list and I'll send them the text. It's
from a book I wrote about 6 years ago, Maritime UFO Files, now
out of print.

I'm going away Friday evening for a few days, so if I'm tardy in
returning emails please bear with me. I'm not around my computer
much these days.

Also David can you elaborate on this: But I'm sure the list
would be interested to learn that "there was no question of any
RAF aircraft trying to shoot down UFOs."

Was that a newspaper quote or some tongue in cheek statement by
Nick Pope?

This is what happens when you jump in on a thread as I've done.


Best,

Don Ledger







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 9

                          Secrecy News -- 07/09/03

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:29:00 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 12:51:41 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 07/09/03


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2003, Issue No. 58
July 9, 2003


**      NSA RELEASES USS LIBERTY RECORDS
**      COURT UPHOLDS CIA DENIAL OF CUBA RECORDS
**      COURT REBUFFS CHENEY ON ENERGY TASK FORCE
**      9-11 COMMISSION REPORTS ON ACCESS PROBLEMS
**      THE DECISION TO GO TO WAR IN IRAQ
**      HOUSE ENACTS NEW LIMITS ON TIA


NSA RELEASES USS LIBERTY RECORDS

In an extraordinary release of raw intelligence records, the
National Security Agency has declassified and disclosed audio
intercepts and related documents concerning the 1967 Israeli
attack on the U.S.S. Liberty, an American intelligence vessel,
that led to the deaths of 34 American sailors during the 1967
Arab-Israeli war.

The release came in the course of a Freedom of Information Act
lawsuit filed by A. Jay Cristol, an historian who authored a
book on the subject, The Liberty Incident (Brassey's, 2002).

Cristol said the contents of the new release were consistent
with the position advanced in his book that the Israeli attack
on the Liberty was accidental and unwitting, attributable to the
fog of war.  Some Liberty survivors and others have contended
that the attack was deliberate.

The newly released intercepts record conversations between two
Israeli helicopter pilots and their control tower.  (No
communications from the attacking aircraft or torpedo boats were
acquired, the NSA said.)

According to the transcript, the U.S.S. Liberty was initially
thought to be Egyptian.  Only later, over an hour into the
attack, was an American flag spotted on the ship.  Even before
that, however, the control tower advised oddly that if any
rescued survivors spoke English rather than Arabic, they were to
be taken to Lod, in Israel, rather than to nearby El Arish.

Whether or not the new release answers all possible questions
about the attack on the Liberty, which is unlikely, it appears
to be the last known piece of hard evidence.  The NSA told a
federal court that it has now declassified and released to
Cristol "all of the actual recordings and English translations
(including summaries of those translations) held by the NSA that
relate to the USS Liberty incident."

The NSA releases are posted here in rather large PDF and audio
files:

http://www.nsa.gov/docs/efoia/released/liberty.html

The NSA's July 2 letter to Cristol, together with a mirrored
copy of the compiled transcripts, may be found here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/nsa/liberty.html


COURT UPHOLDS CIA DENIAL OF CUBA RECORDS

The Central Intelligence Agency is entitled to withhold a multi-
volume compendium of information on "Cuban Personalities" that
it prepared in 1962, even though the Agency has previously
released similar or identical information, a District of
Columbia appeals court panel ruled on July 8.

The decision came in a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit
against the CIA brought by the Assassination Archives and
Research Center.  See:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/jud/aarcvcia0703.pdf


COURT REBUFFS CHENEY ON ENERGY TASK FORCE

The DC Court of Appeals rejected a petition from Vice President
Dick Cheney that would have shut down a lawsuit brought by
Judicial Watch and the Sierra Club concerning the Vice
President's secretive Energy Task Force.

A copy of the July 8 ruling is posted here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/jud/cheney0703.pdf

A Washington Post story, "Cheney Loses Ruling on Energy Panel
Records" by Henri E. Cauvin, July 9, puts the matter in
perspective:

  http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A29486-
2003Jul8.html


9-11 COMMISSION REPORTS ON ACCESS PROBLEMS

The National Commission on September 11 has received mixed
cooperation from the executive branch in response to its
requests for records, it said on July 8.

"While thousands of documents are flowing in -- some in boxes
and some digitized -- most of the documents we need are still to
come," the Commission stated in its first interim report
outlining the status of its requests.  See:

http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2003/07/911interim.html


THE DECISION TO GO TO WAR IN IRAQ

The Foreign Affairs Committee of the UK House of Commons
produced a new report on "The Decision to Go to War in Iraq"
that is cautiously critical of the UK Government's public
presentation of intelligence used to justify the war in Iraq.  A
copy of the report is posted here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/threat/ukiraq0703.pdf

Among other things, the UK report prompted a belated
acknowledgment from the Bush Administration this week that it
should not have endorsed the claim, based on forged documents,
that Iraq was attempting to import uranium from Africa.
 President Bush presented that discredited claim in the State of
the Union address earlier this year.

Rep. Henry Waxman (D-CA) pressed the point in a new release of
his correspondence with the International Atomic Energy Agency
and with the White House.  See:

http://www.house.gov/reform/min/inves_admin/admin_nuclear_eviden
ce.htm

Rep. David Obey (D-WI), ranking member of the House
Appropriations Committee, questioned the role and structure of
defense intelligence, singling out the controversial Office of
Special Plans, in a July 8 statement on the House floor.  See:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2003_cr/h070803.html


HOUSE ENACTS NEW LIMITS ON TIA

No government agency may deploy or implement any component of
the Terrorism Information Awareness (formerly Total Information
Awareness) program without Congressional notification and
authorization, according to a provision adopted yesterday by the
House of Representatives.

The "Limitation on Deployment of Terrorism Information Awareness
Program" was included in the 2004 Defense Appropriations Act
that was approved by the House on July 8.  See the text of the
provision here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/2003/defapp-tia.html


_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood@fas.org
voice:  (202) 454-4691








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 9

                 On Sky Patrol With The Flying Saucer Squad

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 13:04:19 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 13:04:19 -0400
Subject: On Sky Patrol With The Flying Saucer Squad




Source: The Guardian - UK

http://www.guardian.co.uk/editor/story/0,12900,994196,00.html

Wednesday July 9, 2003

On Sky Patrol With The Flying Saucer Squad

The evidence for extraterrestrial life continues to pile up

Toby Manhire
The Guardian

If you need convincing the truth is out there, what better
authority than the British constabulary? In UFO Magazine (July),
Gary Heseltine, detective constable No 1877 of the British
transport police, presented the results of a year's work
compiling police officers' observations of unidentified flying
objects.

"The last 12 months have literally flown by," recounted DC
Heseltine. But his feet were firmly on the ground as he
presented a database bulging with encounters of the first,
second and third kind - a total of 84 incidents, spanning the
period from 1950 to 2002, involving more than 200 police
officers.

"Given that well over half the number of incidents were
corroborated by other police officers present at the time, this
dispels any notion that all of the 218 officers could have been
mistaken or imagining things," said DC Heseltine. And he was
keen to find more members of the flying saucer squad: "I firmly
believe that this report is only the tip of the proverbial
iceberg - and I appeal to all officers out there who have had
such experiences, past or present, to come forward and contact
me, safe in the knowledge that I will protect their identities
if required to do so." The editor of UFO Magazine, Graham
Birdsall, was convinced. "Witness credibility and testimony par
excellence," he said.

Birdsall also appeared in the latest issue of Nexus (June-July),
interviewing Valery Uvarov, of Russia's national security
academy. Here was more evidence of extraterrestrial activity.
Investigations suggested that an asteroid struck Earth about
12,500 years ago, throwing the planet off its "finely tuned
frequency", said Mr Uvarov.

"We believe the orbit of the Earth was altered, artificially, to
compensate for this... This has taught us to believe that we
have friends - friends that watch over us, silently. They did
not allow then, nor will they allow now, any planet, comet or
asteroid to strike and destroy the Earth. This, for us, is now
absolutely clear." Mr Uvarov was no crank. "I am answerable to
two people above me," intoned the Agent Mulder of Moscow. "They
are answerable to the next person above them, who is our
president."




[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 9

                Re: 'Liquidation Of The UFO Investigators'? -

From: Eustaquio Andrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Wed,  9 Jul 2003 13:53:56 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 16:17:47 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Liquidation Of The UFO Investigators'? -


>From: Loren Coleman
>To: UFO-Involved
>Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 10:40:42 -0400
>Subject: 'Liquidation Of The UFO Investigators'?

>Can anyone share with me an electronic, scanned, or photocopied
>copy of Otto Binder's 1971 Saga article, 'Liquidation of the UFO
>Investigators'? A Word .doc attachment would be great.


http://www.metatech.org/ufo_research_magazine_evidence.html








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 9

                          Filer's Files #28 -- 2003

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 13:22:15 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 16:20:51 -0400
Subject: Filer's Files #28 -- 2003


Filer's Files #28 -- 2003 Skywatch Investigations.
George A. Filer,   Director Mutual UFO Network Eastern
July 7, 2003,  Majorstar@aol.com
Webmaster: Chuck Warren
My website is at: http://www.georgefiler.com/
Sponsored by: http://www.filer.Isotonix.com/ ]OPC-3

CROP CIRCLES SPRING UP AROUND US

The purpose of these files is to report the UFO eyewitness and
photo/video evidence that occurs on a daily basis around the
world and in space. Ufologist Gail Dillon - a UFO hero dies,
Mar's Moon Phobos has artificial structures, New York - Bruce
Maccabee crop circle investigation, New Jersey - shoe and orange
crescent shaped UFO's, Ohio - daylight discs photographed,
Wisconsin - high speed flasher, Arkansas - Nancy Talbot says
crop circle has high magnetic material, Utah - UFO divides in
two, California -b crop circle, Canadians have strange scoop
marks, Mexico- cylinder near volcano -  Argentina -luminous
sphere, UK - saucer spotted, Italy - cylinder UFO causes near
miss with airliner, Russian - James Oberg says UFO was the
Molniya-M launch, India - UFO may have caused train accident?
Severe weather causes global alert.

UFOLOGIST GAIL DILLON - UFO HERO DIES

GAIL DILLON passed away in Colorado Springs, Colorado, on
Friday, May 23rd, 2003.  she was a past member of the UFO
Institute of Colorado Springs and was a member of the Mutual UFO
Network of Denver.  Her support of Contactees around the country
and in Colorado Springs was much needed and appreciated. Gail
will be missed...Thanks to George and Paula Wolkind.

Editor's Note: Gail was a great person who worked at the Air
Force Academy Library and was instrumental in locating a rare AF
Academy physics book for me.  which essentially says, "UFO's are
real and much of the physics taught today is probably wrong.
The book "ENVIRONMENTAL SPACE SCIENCES" was taught at the Air
Force Academy and written by Professor and Colonel Donald G.
Carpenter, who was also the Commander of the Spacetrack Radar
Site at Shemya, Alaska. He was the originator of the Space
Science Course at the USAF Academy.  See: Outer Space at:  [
http://www.georgefiler.com/ ]www.GeorgeFiler.com/  for the
chapter on UFOs.

MAR'S MOON PHOBOS MAY HAVE ARTIFICIAL STRUCTURES?

The Mars Global Surveyor recently captured a photo of Phobos,
the larger of Mars' two moons that show converging grooves and
the possibility of artificial structures on its surface. There
has been speculation for years that Phobos was hollow and is an
artificial satellite that and been placed in orbit by
intelligent life forms.  The Russian Phobos 1 satellite did not
make it to Mars, and Phobos ll attempts to scan the moon with a
spectroscopic laser and conduct a landing ended in disaster.
The last known bimages captured by Phobos II satellite shows an
approaching UFO.

Phobos is only 3,728 miles away from the surface of Mars and
always keeps the same side facing Mars.  It seems to have been
placed by design in its orbit to provide an excellent viewing
platform of Mars. Phobos has an enormous almost bottomless
crater that may be entry point to an underground base. Radiating
out from the crater are numerous straight grooves, never
satisfactorily explained in geological terms. Isaac Asimov and
others have suggested Phobos might be an ancient spacecraft. In
the 1970s, physicist Gebrard K. O'Neill published "The High
Frontier," a blueprint for designing habitats in space. He
describes in detail how hollowing out a captured asteroid to
make room for a human population would provide abundant raw
material for a self-sustaining microgravity industry. Many large
monuments on Mars can be seen from Phobos feeding speculation
that an intelligent life form once existed there.  As the
atmosphere dwindled, the Martians may have set up monuments to
be viewed from Phobos.  The so called Face on Mbars, pyramids,
dolphins, and other depiction's of animals are apparent.  The
grooves could have been caused by space craft entering and
leaving Phobos or by propellants used to propel the moon through
space.  Phobos is rich in potential rocket fuel and minerals,
making it an attractive base for intergalactic travel.

Additionally, there are conspicuous cuspid-like formations that
were found by Efrain Palermo, that pose the possibility that
Phobos may have artificial structures.  Palermo and Lan Fleming
have investigated a sharp-edged anomaly called the "Phobos
Monolith." Analysis by Chris Joseph suggests, that the
"Monolith" may be pyramidal in shape, suggesting a link with
similar pyramid shaped formations on the Martian surface. Many
of these features appear to be artificial, implying that Martian
or space traveler bbases were once on Mars and Phobos.

Mars has unexplained domes, forts, tubes, pyramids, and various
structures. Infrared images show heat and deep foundations
beneath the surface.  A Martian civilization might build
partially buried structures, to protect them from aerial
bombardment, to maximize insulation from cosmic rays, to
preserve its atmosphere and to use subsurface water ice. As we
get closer to Mars each day, get out your telescope and look at
the green patches of vegetation.  Thanks to Efrain Palermo and
Mac Tonnies www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n0306/24phobos
www.mactonnies.com/imperative17.html

NEW YORK CROP CIRCLE INVESTIGATION

Dr. Bruce Maccabee writes:  Regarding the Saratoga Springs
agriglyph (crop circle) you wrote:    "The crop circle is next
to a church parking lot. The witness took "flash"  pictures at
8:30 PM, on June 11 and in some of the photos there are globes
of  light, orbs hovering above the formations. In some they
appeared to be coming out  of the grass in an upward motion.
"The round "globe" or "orb" images may be a result of light
reflected from dust in the atmosphere that is very close to the
lens when the flash went off. "Flasbh orb" images are quite
common nowadays because the flash lights are so close to the
lens on modern cameras.  Thanks to Dr. Bruce Macabee
http://brumac.8k.com/orb_1.html

Kathie Grimes writes: "I just wanted to let you know about an
investigation that was done in Kentucky where globe lights were
seen in pictures taken in a dark house." The investigator went
to the house one night and found that the globe lights, or Orb
lights were caused in flash photos by the flash picking up the
bugs flying around.  I just felt that this is probably a common
occurrence at night where flash is used. We were amused that
such small bugs could make such big orbs on the pictures.  I
felt your readers mightb like to be aware of this occurrence and
felt it might explain Orbs in pictures taken in the dark, where
flying bugs may be present. Thanks to Kathie Grimes, KY MUFON

NEW JERSEY - SHOE AND ORANGE CRESCENT SHAPED UFOs

BARNEGAT -  Cardinal Ethics writes: "Last Friday, June 27, 2003,
I was driving on the New Jersey Parkway heading to Barnegat and
I suddenly saw a crescent shaped orange object gliding almost in
slow motion right above the tree line. It had been seemingly
following me for about four minutes, then suddenly it was gone.
Thanks to Cardinal Ethics

SEA SIDE HEIGHTS -- Robert E. Deininger writes on July 3, "I
watched as two white shoe shaped objects did what looked to be
similar moves in the sky like they were imitating each other for
over 30 minutes over Sea Side Heights. The speeds and turns were
unreal, it was amazing.  I have seen at least 100 UFO's and as a
field representative for ufossi.org, Don Smitts and Billy Dee's
site where I am a director and investigator for 5 years now, I
have interviewed many who have seen all types of UFOs, or have
been abductees, andb only once was this shape recorded.  In the
past 2 weeks there have been many sightings, all over New
Jersey. In September, we will release something that will get
the world talking, so be ready. Thanks to Robert E. Deininger
rd1064@aol.com

OHIO - DISC SHPED UFO PHOTOGRAPHED

FOSTORIA -- Between May 30 and June 20, 2003, George W. Ritter
captured a series of daylight photos of fast moving disc shaped
UFO's near his home. Thanks to George W. Ritter.

WISCONSIN - HIGH SPEED FLASHER

STRATFORD - UFO Wisconsin report by Mike D. "The object I saw, I
had seen before in Mosinee last summer. I know Mosinee has a
large airport, but this was no plane. The first time, last
summer, I was with a good friend and we were fishing at night.
On June 29, 2003, at 11:00 PM, I was outside with my cousin,
smoking a cigarette, when we saw a strange object headed over
Stratford, flying towards Wausau. It flashed on and off like a
strobe light. It moved a great distance between flashes, like 2
miles or so. It was I'bd say 3000 feet up?  At Mosinee, when I
saw it, it came from way up and almost landed in the water.  It
came to a sudden stop like nothing moving at that speed could.
It hovered and my friend and I could actually feel it watching
or observing us. We got the hell out of there. One thing in
Mosinee though, it shined a light on the water like a search
light, but the beam did not spread out, it was straight up and
down, like a five feet wide beam. And as it went higher above
the water, the beam did not changeb size or shape.  Thanks to:
Mike D. and UFO Wisconsin
http://www.ufowisconsin.com/county/reports2003/r2003_0629_marath
on.html

ARKANSAS -CROP CIRCLE HIGH MAGNETIC MATERIAL

KNOBEL -- Nancy Talbott, BLT reports, "She is investigating the
"mini" triple Julia crop formation and taken soil samples.
Although the plants were cut immediately after the formation
occurred, soil samples revealed a massive amount of magnetic
material.  The Magnetic particle concentration samples yielded a
much higher concentration of magnetic material than would be
expected in "normal" soil --3.30 mg/g-soil."  We've got several
anomalous daytime photos, taken two days after the formation
occurred, which seem to indicate enerbgy emanating straight
upwards to at least 800 feet above the formation.

I was an eyewitness to a crop circle forming in the Netherlands
in Aug. 2000.  She says, " What's most interesting to me is that
the Earthfiles site has a PHOTO taken by three Italian kids this
year of a brilliant tube of light coming down from the sky,
which looks very much like what Robert and I saw in 2000.  (In
our case, we saw three tubes of brilliant light, and they were
"fatter" than the photo provided by the Italian kids.)  The
unique photo taken with a new cell phone, by a 17 year old boy,
of a thbin colored beam emanating down into a crop circle from a
sphere of light in Italy that can be seen at:
http://www.earthfiles.com/news/news.cfm?ID=3D547&category=3DEnvironm
ent

Nancy says, "I'm off to Europe on a very special
investigation......a situation in a country I've never been to
before, in which we may have evidence of a landed UFO directly
related to crop circles.  I've already begun analysis of some
physical artifacts recovered from the scene, and am going myself
to carry out interviews, collect more samples, etc.  If the case
holds us upon real scrutiny, it's going to be a dilly.  When I
get back, I'll be putting together a report on this.  While in
Europe I'm also gobing to go to Germany and Holland and
Brussels. I have a feeling this is going to be a "banner" year
for not only crop circles, but all this other really strange
stuff.    Thanks to Nancy Talbott, BLT, bltresearch@comcast.net
WEB: [ www.bltresearch.com ]www.bltresearch.com

UTAH - UFO DIVIDES INTO TWO

ROY -- I had an interesting experience yesterday on June 29,
2003, between 5 and 6 PM.  We were having a family gathering in
our backyard in Roy, Utah and my son-in-law pointed out an
object in the sky.  It was pretty high, I assume because, with
the naked eye, it was about the size of a pencil eraser.  The
rest of the family searched the sky and spotted the object.
Watching it, it looked like it was heading toward the ground,
because it looked like it was getting larger.  Then it stopped
and hung there fbor about five minutes.  Then the object slowly
began moving north and suddenly divided in two. I spotted the
two objects.  The second just accelerated really fast and flew
off to the south-southwest and disappeared. We continued
watching the first object, when suddenly the second returned
with equal velocity catching up to the first.  The first still
traveling slowly north-northeast. The second object then changed
direction and flew off to the south at a high rate of speed then
disappeared.  I looked back bto the first object and watched it
for a few more minutes then it, too, disappeared. The objects
appeared round or oval, I thought they may have had wings but I
cannot be sure.  It was either white or silver-reflecting-
sunlight.  The display lasted over a half-hour.  There were
three of us watching the whole time, and four others watched for
a few minutes. Thanks to Ben Sloots  Roy, Utah

CALIFORNIA - CROP CIRCLES

ROCKVILLE, (AP) -- Wheat farmer Larry Balestra might have
trouble getting a great yield, with the crop circles all over
his field.  Balestra, of Suisun City, says he found more than a
dozen large flattened circles and shapes in his wheat field
Saturday -- one measuring more than 140 feet in diameter.  "What
the heck?" Balestra muttered to himself upon walking into the
field and making the discovery. He pulled out his cell phone and
told his wife, "You won't believe what I'm looking at."
Balestra says the stalks werbe curiously bent flat to the ground
and the crop circles stretched out longer than a football field,
forming various shapes and symmetrical designs.  "The harvester
can't pick this up," he told The Fairfield Daily Republic as he
held up a broken stalk. "This is weird." Snip. Thanks to Bruce
Cornet bcornet@monmouth.com

CANADIANS - REPORT HEAVY CONCENTRATION OF SMALL SCOOP MARKS

OTTAWA - The witness reports, "I had gone to bed around midnight
in February 2003, and woke up at 8 AM, and found a small
roundish scoop mark on my left wrist, characteristics were as
follows:  1. About 1/8" or two millimeters in diameter. 2. The
bottom of the wound is concave. 3. There was no pain at all
associated with the wound. 4. The bottom of the wound was
flecked with very small dots of blood. 5. The bottom of the
wound was slick and smooth as if it was cauterized. 6. It looked
as if it had been done just five minutes before I awoke.  The
wound took two months to heal and is now only visible using a
jeweler's loupe.  - There is nothing sharp near my bed that
would cause a wound. - I know there was no wound on my wrist
before hitting the sack because upon retiring I took off my
watch and did not observe any blemish in the left wrist area.
Thinking it had been a rather large insect bite, I went to a
local Ottawa clinic.

The doctor looked at it and said, why did you have that done?
When I informed him how it had appeared, he became quiet and
paused for a few moments, then said that the mark was from a
procedure called a "punch biopsy" that appeared to be done by a
left-handed individual using a laser scalpel-type device.  The
doctor said that he could not comment on this officially and
recorded the reason for my visit on my file as an "insect bite."
He also consulted a small notebook and gave me a URL stating
that I coulbd get more information.  The doctor stated that this
was the fourth or fifth case of what he called "involuntary
sampling" and noted it appears to be an emerging phenomenon.
The fact that this doctor had the URL handy is pretty
interesting.

Brian Vike writes, I recently reported on a report and pictures
I received. It was titled "Small Roundish Scoop Mark Called A
"Punch Biopsy." Since I received that one report, my fingers
have been running wild over the keyboard replying to emails.
Report after report are coming in, not just ones that took place
years ago, but recently, even as new as today.  Everyone is
reporting the same type of marks. After the score has cleared up
a scar has been left behind in many of these cases. Another
interesting and I guess disturbing situation is reports of
needle marks found after people have awakened as well. Photos
are being taken and sent along tbo me.

BRITISH COLUMBIA - Brian Vike writes, "A man reported to me that
he and his wife were just heading out for a couple of days
fishing trip at Prince Rupert on June 24, 2003, at 10:20 AM.
They were just outside of Terrace, BC driving on highway #16
along the Skeena River heading west when the man's wife gave out
a yell for him to look up and towards the south. The gentleman
said it took a couple of seconds before his brain kicked in;
thinking what he was looking at was very unusual. He pulled the
vehicle over to the side of tbhe road and both watched an egg
shaped object hovering over the south side of the river at about
1000 feet. They mentioned it was the size of a pickup truck,
shiny silver in color. It was completely smooth, or no seams on
the object were visible. "Witness expressed: it looked like an
egg"! (He laughed and said they must grow large chickens in
Canada.) Thanks to Brian Vike, Director HBCC UFO Research [
mailto:hbccufo@telus.net ]hbccufo@telus.net
http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/small_roundish_scoop_mark_c
alled.htm

MEXICO CITY - SPHERICAL OBJECT FILMED

MEXICO CITY -- On June 23, 2003, at 13:10 hours, a group of four
professionals witnessed an object from their office windows at
an 80 degree angle of elevation.  The dark object--described as
being "the size of a pinhead" remained static until it moved
swiftly against the general movement of the clouds. The episode
lasted only a few minutes and the object lost itself amid the
city's buildings. Thanks to Lucy Guzman www.ovni.net and Scott
Corrales Translation (C) 2003. Institute of Hispanic Ufology

POPOCOTAPETL VOLCANO -This volcano is watched by several video
cameras continuously.  I have been notified that a cylinder
shaped object has been observed in the videos.  It has been in
relatively the same location for a number of images and as you
may be aware, there was a minor eruption from the volcano
earlier in the day.  I know that others who submit to Fliers
Files also watch the live camera from this volcano, so they may
have seen it as well.  Images I have been watching are from
20:05 - 20:09 July 2nd, 2003, GMT.  Thabnks to William Stewart
william.stewart@usask.ca

ARGENTINA - LUMINOUS SPHERE SEEN

CACHI -- Diario "El Tribuno" de Salta reports that on June 24,
2003, three UFOs were seen and     videotaped by Antonio Zuleta,
an indefatigable researcher, after being phoned by a teacher.
Art instructor Maria del Valle who teaches at the Payogasta
School saw the UFO at close range at 7:30 PM, and phoned Mr.
Zuleta.  She says the sighting was incredible...fantastic. The
UFOs appeared behind the western hills and the first one to
emerge was enormous in size. It gave off lights of different
colors and moved slobwly, without making a sound." I was coming
back from work on Route 33 about three kilometers from Cachi and
pulled over and called Zuleta on my cell phone, who came to my
observation point. After the first UFO appeared, it was followed
by another two, which also crossed the skies. They hovered
nearby and their light was intense and shifting, but it didn't
hurt the eyes. It was motionless, as though they were looking at
us from their interior.  I only wanted to strain my eyes to see
into the core of those obbjects, which suddenly, propelled by a
strong and powerful force, vanished at breathtaking speed over
the horizon," said Mar=EDa de Valle. Thanks to Scott Corrales
Translation (C) 2003 Institute of Hispanic Ufology...

BUENOS AIRES -- On Monday, June 23, 2003, at 7:03 p.m.,
brilliant luminous spherical UFOs were seen over the capital
according to Ufologist Ricardo E. D'Angelo.  Ricardo reported,
"I observed an 'intense luminous sphere' over the district of
Chacabuco from my position, looking northeast. It was moving at
a very, very low altitude over the city.  It began to disappear
as it neared the eastern horizon. It vanished in a series of
degrees, gradually becoming more and more transparent.  It was
not a satellite, a bolide or ba meteor because of its slow
velocity, and it was last seen heading towards Uruguay to the
east."  Thanks to  Revista TOC and Diario La Cuarta (Chile)
July 4, 2003

UK - SAUCER SPOTTED

BUCKINGHAMSHIRE -- Stuart Wood reports, "I spotted what I
thought was a low-flying plane out of my living room window" in
Great Missenden, on June 25, 2003, at 11:20 PM.  He says, "I
soon realized that there was no engine noise, and that it could
not be a hot-air balloon at that time of night." "It was saucer-
shaped with four metallic legs hanging from the undercarriage
that were bent in the middle, almost in a crouching stance, with
three amber lights, one of which lit up the leg-like structures.
It alsob had one red and one white blinking light situated on
the port or starboard (left or right) side of the object."  "It
measured about a centimeter (0.4 inches) across.  I think it was
about one-half to three-quarters of a mile (0.8 to 1.2
kilometers) away.  My friend also witnessed this.  The object
never moved; it just hovered.  After two or three minutes of
staring at it, it (the UFO) disappeared."  Thanks to UFO ROUNDUP
Vol. 8, # 24, July 2, 2003 Editor: Joseph Trainor  E-Mail:
Masinaigan@aol.com Websiteb: [ http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/
]http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/

ITALY - A MISSILE OR A UFO BUZZES A PLANE

BENEVENTO --The commander of a Alpi Eagles Fokker 100, that was
set to land in Naples with 80 passengers at around 8 PM, on June
25 , reports they were buzzed by a missile-shaped object.  The
commander called the control tower to report having observed a
strange and large, elongated "missile-like" object, coming
towards him from the opposite direction and passing very close
underneath the plane.  The alarm involved ENAV (the National
Flight Assistance Agency), ENAC (Civil Aviation National
Agency), ASV (Flbight Security National Agency), the Ministry of
Transportation Services, and the First Minister Crisis Unit,
featuring the activation of the usual security procedures.  In
the report drafted the following day, the commander described an
"unidentified flying object" approaching him at an altitude of
approximately 8000 feet: it was cylindrical in form, 3 to 4
meters in length, white in color, and reflected the sun rays.
The object, observed by both pilots, was reportedly not detected
by radar systems; for sebcurity reasons, however, the state
prosecutor in Naples opened an investigation and confiscated the
radar recordings and the tape recordings of dialogue between the
aircraft and the control tower.   Thanks to Edoardo Russo for
the Italian Center for  UFO Studies (Centro Italiano Studi
Ufologici),  http://www.arpnet.it/ufo/ultime.htm

RUSSIA - REGION HAUNTED BY GREEN UFO's INVESTIGATION

SVERDLOVSK - Distinguished NASA author James Oberg writes,
Pravda - RU reported on the night of June 20, 2003, citizens of
the Russian cities of Yekaterinburg and Pervouralsk observed an
unidentified flying object high in the skies. Witnesses describe
the phenomenon as something resembling a bright beautiful comet.
The strange object was moving underneath clouds. The UFO
brightly lit the night sky and disappeared. Many of the
witnesses managed to take pictures of the phenomenon.

James Oberg writes, "It was just the Molniya-M launch from
Plesetsk June 19, at 20:00 UTC, that resulted in an UFO-like
celestial pattern visible from as far south as from Moscow.
Multiple observers saw the movement of the launch vehicle and
its trail and gas envelope. Some freaked out enough to report it
to UFO groups.  It passed across South America about half an
hour after sunset, while the sky was still bright. When these
kinds of spacecraft, which fire engines and dump a cloud of
excess fuel over South America,b pass over between one and two
hours after sunset, they spark OVNI reports throughout Chile,
Argentina, Uruguay, and southern Brazil. They have been doing so
for more than thirty years.   See this twenty year old article
from FATE about how this type of pseudo-OVNI was solved.
http://www.debunker.com/texts/giant_ufo.html James Thanks to
James Oberg jamesoberg@houston.rr.com
http://english.pravda.ru/science/19/94/378/10299_UFOgreen.html


RUSSIA - ALIEN BASE IN THE MOUNTAINS OF CAUCASUS ?

"Interplanetary Space Port is Discovered in the Foothills of
North Caucasus Plateau, Where UFOs are Pasturing" - this is
headline of the article in a respected Russian newspaper "Trud",
Moscow, dated June 20, 2003, p. 4.  Intensive alien activity is
reported from the area of Lagonaki plateau north of the Russian
resort town of Sochi, near the nature reserve. "Local residents
and Ufologists are convinced that there is an interplanetary
space port," -- states Mr. Nikolay Sedov, the journalist.
Several witnesses are quoting. Mr. Viktor Yasenev stated that he
saw a cylinder-shaped object, silver in color, over Cice Rbiver
Canyon. "It was shaped like a rocket (missile), with windows and
structure above. There were three of us. What amazed me, it
suddenly froze in the air over our heads, like it was
overlooking us. Then, it sharply zoomed up and disappeared
behind Mt. Fisht in complete silence, only the sound of the
river was heard."

The second UFO, met by Mr. Yasenev, was shaped like a saucer,
more exactly, like two saucers joined together, with a
transparent dome on top and in a pulsing semicircle (like
plasma) beneath. It is most amazing that those reports coincide
word by word with the story of other witness, Mr. Dmitriy
Didimov, local forester -- security officer of the Nature
Reserve. He and his wife, local teacher, did observe UFOs at
least seven times. Sharp changes of pressure were sensed. At
first, thinking of these observatibons of optical deceptions or
accidental events, he later started a chronicle of those UFO
cases, with the help of his colleagues.  Now his chronicle
contains more than 20 cases that are almost the same (by
different witnesses) even in diminutive details.

"The recent UFO visit was not long ago, states Mr. Didimov. -
The UFO was hovering over the trees about 100 meters from me. I
did see light in the windows. After that, I sensed the wave of
air from it, the lower part of the "saucer" became saturated by
cherry color. In a sudden, it disappeared."  All facts indicate
that, very likely, another underground alien base in located in
the area of Mt. Fisht (2867 m over the sea level, with eternal
ice glacier) and nearby Laganaki plateau (isolated remote area),
asb well as in the other places of the Caucasus region
(including its highest mountain - El'brus) that have numerous
underground alien bases, sub-bases, deep caves, connected by
tunnels. These tunnels go to Crimean bases as well (as we
remote-viewed that). The regions named are known by regular
intensive UFO activity.  Thanks to Anton A.Anfalov  [
an@crimea.com ]an@crimea.com and Trud News

THE TIMES OF INDIA - UFO's MAY HAVE CAUSED TRAIN ACCIDENT

NEW DELHI -- The last chairman of the Railway Board (CRB) has
blamed the death of 120 persons in the Rajdhani accident on the
Pakistani ISI.  Now responsible officials in the board are
talking about planets, rahu nakshatra, Unidentified Flying
Objects, tornados and sudden inexplicable radioactivity as the
reasons for four major accidents in 180 days.  Thanks to:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/xml/uncomp/default?
Thanks to Rajesh Ramachandran  Times News Network, July 5, 2003

SEVERE WEATHER PROMPTS GLOBAL WARMING ALERT

THE INDEPENDENT - UK -- The World Meteorological Organization
declared the world's weather is going haywire.  The WMO reports
record extremes in weather and climate occurring all over the
world in recent weeks. Switzerland had its hottest-ever June and
the United States had a record number of tornadoes.  The Geneva-
based organization provides weather services to 185 countries.
The events this year in Europe, America and Asia are so
remarkable that the world needs to be made aware of it
immediately.

Record high and low temperatures, record rainfall and record
storms in different parts of the world, is consistent with
predictions of global warming. Supercomputer models show that,
as the atmosphere warms, the climate not only becomes hotter but
much more unstable.  "Recent scientific assessments indicate
that, as the global temperatures continue to warm due to climate
change, the number and intensity of extreme events might
increase," the WMO said, giving a striking series of examples.
Many temperaturebs around the world are 5C to 7C above the
average

OPC-3 WILL HELP YOU SURVIVE

I was tired of being tired, my daughter had serious case of skin
rash called psoriasis, my son and wife were suffering from
allergies. They were sneezing and had running noses.  I happen
to have a friend Graham who is an MD.  While we were talking in
my living room, I asked his advice for these problems.  He
stated, "He and his loved ones, along with most of his patients
take OPC - 3."  It's made from a unique combination of grape
seed, pine bark, bilberry, red wine, and citrus extracts.  These
OPC's are sbuper-effective free radical neutralizers and
antioxidants. They build up your immune system so your body
heals itself.  I bought some of the OPC-3 and it increased my
energy, improved my vision, helped me breathe better and helped
with nagging pain.

This natural product helps prevent heart disease, smoothes
varicose veins, reduces pain and inflammation?  Many people
complain of allergies, skin, back, lung, or heart problems
because we often fail to provide the necessary nutrition for our
immune system to heal us.  My daughters red skin lesions
(psoriasis) was cleared up in a week after years if treatment.
Both my son and my wife's allergies cleared up. The cost is only
an about a dollar a day to feel and have youthful skin.

I was so impressed, I have made it available to my readers. A
large size should lasts for 3 months and is a much better buy.
Click on the link that could change your life!     [
http://www.filer.Isotonix.com/ ]OPC-3

Want to grow hair and stop graying and feel younger? Try our
anti-aging product   [ http://filer.primeblends.com/ ]HGH
Enhancer

WHAT YOU SHOULD KNOW WHEN BUY OR SELL REAL ESTATE!

Get your free report and learn how you can obtain the best real
estate agent to help your buy or sell a home.  To get a free
copy of this report e-mail me at :  [ Majorstrar@aol.com
]Majorstar@aol.com

MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative
reports subscribe to the MUFON JOURNAL. A MUFON membership
includes the Journal and costs only $35.00 per year. To join
MUFON or to report a UFO go to http://www.mufon.com/. To ask
questions contact MUFONHQ@aol.com or HQ@mufon.com. Mention that
I recommended you for membership. "The MUFON Journal is now
accepting qualified advertising, please call 1 (303) 932-7709
for more information."

Filer's Files is copyrighted 2003 by George A. Filer, all rights
reserved. Readers may post the COMPLETE files on their Web Sites
if they credit the Newsletter and its editor by name and list
the date of issue. These reports and comments are not
necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON viewpoint. Send your letters to
Majorstar@aol.com. Sending mail automatically grants permission
for us to publish and use your name. Please state if you wish to
keep your name or e-mail confidential. CAUTION, MOST OF THESE
ARE INITIAL REPORTS AND REQUIRE FURTHER INVESTIGATION.

Regards,

George A. Filer
http://www.georgefiler.com/ ]www.GeorgeFiler.com/









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 9

                   Re: What Is Real In Ufology? - Friedman

From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com>
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:51:02 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 16:22:42 -0400
Subject: Re: What Is Real In Ufology? - Friedman


>From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 15:02:40 +0100
>Subject: Re: What Is Real In Ufology?

>>From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com>
>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 21:41:17 -0500
>>Subject: Re: What Is Real In Ufology?

>>>From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk>
>>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>>Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:36:38 +0100
>>>Subject: Re: What Is Real In Ufology?

>>>Investigators may be either sceptical,
>>>endeavouring to find a rational solution to the case or they may
>>>be completely subjective, striving to prove the case for the
>>>existence and active intervention of extraterrestrial entities.

>>So investigators are either "skeptical" of the ETH OR they are
>>"subjective," and presumably irrational. And these two
>>categories are mutually exclusive? I don't think so. So-called
>>"skeptics" are no more likely to be objective or rational than
>>so-called "believers".

>Here is the definition of "sceptic" from my edition of the
>Pelica... er, Penguin concise English dictionary:

>"One who will not accept any statement without rigorous proof;
>one who doubts a specified religion, philosophy, or theory".

>The meaning of what I wrote in relation to the mention of
>scepticism is any investigator seeking rigorous proof of their
>conclusion, even if their conclusion is that "ET did it". My
>reference to subjective investigation (in this case directly
>referring to propounders of the ETH) is intended to apply to
>anyone approaching a case without requiring rigorous proof of
>any conclusion, whether that conclusion is "ET did it",
>"Pelicans bellies", or "swamp gas".

>>>The desire for an ET solution is, in my opinion real. Many
>>>people would like the security that would be provided by the
>>>existence of super-beings, able to right all of the wrongs
>>>perpetrated by "bad" people. This springs from a desire for
>>>ultimate justice. How many times have you seen some idiot
>>>driving irresponsibly, risking the lives of other road users,
>>>and wished that you would see them 3 miles up the road having
>>>collided with a bridge support?

>>And even more people might find the possibility of
>>extraterrestrial intelligence intrinsically interesting, while
>>harboring no expectations that ETs will somehow force bad
>>drivers use their turn signals.

>You miss my point. How many direct encounters with supposed
>alien entities have resulted in them healing illness, warning
>about the use of nuclear energy, or other ecological damage?
>There are even cases involving the disarming of nuclear weapons
>by advanced technological means. My point is that for some
>people, they represent the salvation of the human race, in the
>same way that Jesus Christ does. Take a look at the Aetherius
>Society, and the "space hoovers" that are cleaning up our
>atmosphere from the human-generated contamination, for
>example.Why do you think people believe this sort of thing? My
>argument is that there is a deep-seated psychological craving
>for a super-being to address the ills of the world. This is the
>basis of all religions, and doesn't only apply to believers of
>the ETH, but is inherent in man as a race. Note that I am not
>suggesting that all ETH believers hold this view, but a
>significant proportion of them do.

>>One of the things that, for the most part, isn't real about
>>"ufology" is the skepticism. More often than not, it's only
>>pseudo-skepticism.

>I'd be interested to see your definition of "pseudo-skepticism"
>in the context of the definition of "sceptic" above, and
>"rigorous proof" of your assertion that scepticism in ufology is
>not real.



It has been my experience that people are most frightened of the
unknown and that more people would just as soon wish NO UFOs
were  of ET origin than wish that any  were. I don't see how the
term "rigorous proof" fits in here. Physics experiements in a
lab? Fine. But since testimony is so important in ufology, I
think we need to look at our justice systems. Remember there are
two standards: Beyond a reasonable doubt and a preponderence of
the evidence.

Another problem I see in such discussions is asking the wrong
question such as "What are UFOs?"  when quite obviously a much
better question is "Are any UFOs...of ET origin or secret
military systems or natural phenomena?"

Considering the drop in church attendance, I am not at all sure
there is a significant portion of the public that has a desire
for a super being to address the ills of the world. Where is the
evidence for this? I am quite skeptical. Where is the "rigorous
proof" of this assertion?


Stan Friedman








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 9

                    Re: What Is Real In Ufology - Fleming

From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com>
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 13:23:01 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 16:24:57 -0400
Subject: Re: What Is Real In Ufology - Fleming


>From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk>
>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 15:02:40 +0100
>Subject: Re: What Is Real In Ufology?

>>From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com>
>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 21:41:17 -0500
>>Subject: Re: What Is Real In Ufology?

>>>From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk>
>>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>>Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:36:38 +0100
>>>Subject: Re: What Is Real In Ufology?

>>>Investigators may be either sceptical,
>>>endeavouring to find a rational solution to the case or they may
>>>be completely subjective, striving to prove the case for the
>>>existence and active intervention of extraterrestrial entities.

>>So investigators are either "skeptical" of the ETH OR they are
>>"subjective," and presumably irrational. And these two
>>categories are mutually exclusive? I don't think so. So-called
>>"skeptics" are no more likely to be objective or rational than
>>so-called "believers".

>Here is the definition of "sceptic" from my edition of the
>Pelica... er, Penguin concise English dictionary:

>"One who will not accept any statement without rigorous proof;
>one who doubts a specified religion, philosophy, or theory".

Many people who doubt that all UFOs can be explained in prosaic
terms fit those definitions just as well as those who don't.

>The meaning of what I wrote in relation to the mention of
>scepticism is any investigator seeking rigorous proof of their
>conclusion, even if their conclusion is that "ET did it". My
>reference to subjective investigation (in this case directly
>referring to propounders of the ETH) is intended to apply to
>anyone approaching a case without requiring rigorous proof of
>any conclusion, whether that conclusion is "ET did it",
>"Pelicans bellies", or "swamp gas".

Agreed. Nobody is totally unbiased and totally objective.
Whether a person tends to favor or disfavor the ETH is not an
indicator of rationality and objectivity in my opinion.

>>>The desire for an ET solution is, in my opinion real. Many
>>>people would like the security that would be provided by the
>>>existence of super-beings, able to right all of the wrongs
>>>perpetrated by "bad" people. This springs from a desire for
>>>ultimate justice. How many times have you seen some idiot
>>>driving irresponsibly, risking the lives of other road users,
>>>and wished that you would see them 3 miles up the road having
>>>collided with a bridge support?

>>And even more people might find the possibility of
>>extraterrestrial intelligence intrinsically interesting, while
>>harboring no expectations that ETs will somehow force bad
>>drivers use their turn signals.

>You miss my point. How many direct encounters with supposed
>alien entities have resulted in them healing illness, warning
>about the use of nuclear energy, or other ecological damage?
>There are even cases involving the disarming of nuclear weapons
>by advanced technological means.

I tend to be extremely skeptical of most of those claims myself,
unless there's some evidence to back them up, such as the one
about disabling nuclear weapons. There are official documents
and multiple witnesses that indicate such incidents may actually
have happened, as described in _The UFO Cover-Up_ by  Fawcett
and Greenwood. Of course, the disabling of the Minute Man
missiles MIGHT have been coincidental with the appearance of
UFOs near the silos. And even if the disabling of the missiles
was in fact a manifestation of "Clear Intent" (Greenwood's
original title), it doesn't prove the intent of the putative ETs
was to show their disapproval of humanity's war-like ways; it
could have just been a show of superior technology intended to
intimidate the US military.

>My point is that for some
>people, they represent the salvation of the human race, in the
>same way that Jesus Christ does. Take a look at the Aetherius
>Society, and the "space hoovers" that are cleaning up our
>atmosphere from the human-generated contamination, for
>example.Why do you think people believe this sort of thing? My
>argument is that there is a deep-seated psychological craving
>for a super-being to address the ills of the world. This is the
>basis of all religions, and doesn't only apply to believers of
>the ETH, but is inherent in man as a race. Note that I am not
>suggesting that all ETH believers hold this view, but a
>significant proportion of them do.

I don't disagree with that. But I think that the continued high
level of public interest in UFOs after 50 years of official
debunking may be attributed primarily to the considerable
amounts of compelling evidence methodically gathered and
analyzed by competent UFO researchers.

>I'd be interested to see your definition of "pseudo-skepticism"
>in the context of the definition of "sceptic" above,

The late Marcello Truzzi, one of the founding members of CSICOP, coined the
term pseudo-skepticism, so I go by his description, which can be read at:

http://www.anomalist.com/commentaries/pseudo.html

>and "rigorous proof" of your assertion that scepticism in ufology is
>not real.

I didn't say all UFO skepticism is not real, or even that people
who indulge in pseudo-skepticism don't raise valid skeptical
arguments from time to time. But there are lots of examples
where "UFO skeptics" make claims that fall far short of rigorous
proof (as in the STS-48 dust-up) or propose theories that
violate principles of physics, as James McDonal showed that some
of Klass' "prosaic" UFO explanations did.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 9

               Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens -

From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 19:19:21 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 16:26:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens -


>From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:20:8 -0400
>Subject: Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens

>>From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 10:38:43 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens

Hi Jan,

>As for Nick assuring us that there is no question RAF aircraft
>shooting down UFOs. There are three things wrong with this
>statement.

>1) Nick's position was not one that necessarily gives him a
>"need to know" what policies exist(ed) on this subject. Milton
>Torres wasn't told anything about the incident. I can say this
>right off, no GCI controller nor site commander had this
>independent authority to order such an engagement. The orders
>had to come from way above that level or already be firmly
>established in policy.

This is correct - GCI would defer to Sector who would defer to
HQ Fighter Command, who at this period would consult with USAF
3rd Air Force. Therefore the order to engage would be taken at
the highest level.

>2) Nick reminds us that he was/is subject to the "Official
>Secrets Act." So even if he had no knowledge of such an order,
>he could not probably not reveal such. (Catch 22 as us Colonists
>like to say.)

Over to you, Nick.

>3) This was not a RAF aircraft but a USAF aircraft, since the US
>was flying in support of the UK, policies on this kind of thing
>had be established in bilateral agreements and spelled out in
>rather solid terms. Again, secret protocols would not be
>normally be available to every government civil servant.

I understand that during this period (late 56-59) the USAF Sabre
squadrons based at Manston, Bentwaters and elsewhere were
assigned to QRA [Quick Reaction Alert] duties, and integrated
into the RAF QRA roster. This is demonstrated by the Sector QRA
rosters deposited at the Public Record Office. Therefore, during
alert duties USAF aircrew would intercept under control of RAF
GCI units, with engagement orders being subject to the same UK-
USA bilateral agreements you mention.

Question is: where are these 'secret protocols'? Has Nick seen
them, and if so, will he tell?

All the best,

Dave Clarke








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 9

              Re: onventioneers Share Alien Theories - Gevaerd

From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:20:26 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 16:33:19 -0400
Subject: Re: onventioneers Share Alien Theories - Gevaerd


>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:52:59 -0300
>Subject: Re: Conventioneers Share Alien Theories

>>From: Charlette LeFevre <clefevre@oz.net>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 01:08:31 -0700 (MST)
>>Subject: Re: Conventioneers Share Alien Theories

>>>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com>
>>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:57:31 -0300
>>>Subject: Re: Conventioneers Share Alien Theories

<snip>

>I have always been under the impression that a Masters Degree is
>an advanced degree. The term "advanced degree" does not, at
>least to me, apply only to a PhD, but applies to all degrees
>beyond a Bachelors.

>Please note that I did not use the strange term "ionized
>seawater". I said "electrically conducting fluid", which is an
>accurate description of seawater.

>I realize that you have been attacking Linda and supporting
>A.J., apparently without having read her paper. Surely one
>should have facts in hand before putting word processor in
>gear?
>
>Stan Friedman
>www.v-j-enterprises.com/sfpage.html


Hello Stan.

Long time no see. I hope you are well.

Charlette is not supporting me. She, as many other researchers,
have seen the info posted all over internet. This info is pro
and against the hoax. Actually, the only info pro is LMH's
investigation, which, for me, is full of very primary mistakes.
I won't go into this again, as it has been plenty presented and
discussed here.

Charlette has been kind enough to publish all the material that
many Brazilian UFO researchers sent to her, including myself, on
her website in a very clear way. Plus, she has done a great job
by investigating the data we have sent and connecting the dots,
comparing the hoax to other similar claims all over the world.
She did a great job.

So did Royce Myers III at his UFOWatchdog.com, which has got all
the info together and showed how poor was LMH's investigation.

Stan, it is not a matter of criticizing Linda for what she is
defending, but it is very clear that she did everything wrong
from the beginning. And now she cannot step back for personnal
reasons.

In addition, her paper presented at the MUFON Symposium reflects
exactly everything she published on her website, Earthfiles.com.
She is trying very hard, I admit, to construct a case from
scratch of a well known hoax, already exposed over and over in
Brazil. The hoaxer's story is as good as 3-dollar bill.


Best regards and stay in touch.

A. J.







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 9

                  Re: Investigator's Right To Investigate -

From: Bruce Hutchinson <bhutch@grassyhill.com>
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 14:23:01 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 16:37:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Investigator's Right To Investigate -


>From: Mike Bird <mikebird@interlog.com>
>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 02:33:00 -0400
>Subject: Investigator's Right To Investigate

<snip>

>It could very well turn out that Oliveira's claims are
>fradulent. But in the search for truth, all researchers should
>be allowed the right to investigate, and to report on their
>findings. I believe that A.J. Gaveard owes Linda Moulton Howe
>and and all other UFO researchers an apology.

>His efforts to smear and prevent Linda from presenting this case
>to the MUFON Conference are unprecidented. It is an affront to
>MUFON and to all researchers.

Mike, List and Readers;

At some point in the investigation of _any_ subject, there has
be a time when a decision is made, one way or another. Leaving
it open indefinitely will not add to the "body of knowledge". It
only serves to increase the noise level, and Ufology already
suffers from a large excess of noise as it is.

A.J. has presented far too much evidence here that the Oliveira
case is rife with fraud, especially when you view it in the
entire context of Urandir's operations. Add to this that, by
_any_ journalistic standard, Linda's investigative methods are
open to question, her interpretations of the analysis have been
disputed, sometimes hotly, by the writers of the reports, and
you end up with a investigation that should be, in my opinion,
shut down completely.

Does Linda have the right to continue her "investigations"? Of
course she does - this is a free country, and there are no rules
in Ufology that can prevent her. But... Linda's continued
support of an obvious fraud can only serve to harm the UFO
Community. It is hoped that she will eventually listen to the
Community, and move on.

I have no doubt that Linda can present a nicely packaged
presentation. I also have no doubt that one can make an equally
convincing presentation on the Piltdown Man...

Some good may eventually come out of all this. If nothing else,
in condemning Linda's methods and conclusions, a large portion
of a very diverse UFO Community has been united, at least
temporarily, which, you have to admit, is pretty darn hard to
do!

Regards,

Bruce Hutchinson








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 9

              Re: Investigator's Right To Investigate - LeFevre

From: Charlette LeFevre <clefevre@oz.net>
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:40:34 -0700 (MST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 16:49:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Investigator's Right To Investigate - LeFevre


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:23:31 -0400
>Subject: Re: Investigator's Right To Investigate

>>From: Mike Bird <mikebird@interlog.com>
>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>>Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 02:33:00 -0400
>>Subject: Investigator's Right To Investigate

><snip>

>>In this work, if we have a problem with anyone's research, we
>>should not lose our composure, and attack the messenger. To do
>>so is childish and makes one suspect to personal agenda.

>>The data will always prevail. And gentlemanly dialogue is the
>>best approach.


>I agree with the thrust of your comment, and agree that there is
>far too much personality bashing going on in this field, which
>allows irrational skeptics to sit back and watch the show with
>glee.

>Unfortunately, the field also finds itself severely impacted by
>the "cult" aspect of the genre, which further damages any hope
>we have for scientific acceptance. Evidence and scientific
>analysis should be accepted for review from any source, IMO, but
>it must stand up against hard questioning and further analysis
>by others.

>In Roswell, during the 1997 50th Anniversary celebration (or
>Circus), a much ballyhooed presentation was made by a
>metallurgical expert as to the properties of "debris" that was
>allegedly from an alien craft. After the presentation, that
>"expert" was quickly rushed out the back door and driven to a
>regional airport where he got on a plane and flew home. It turns
>out that the "expert" was a research assistant, and the entire
>matter turned into a rather sick joke. To her credit, Linda
>Moulton Howe had expressed serious reservations about going
>public at that time, and felt that further research into the
>debris needed to be completed. But press releases had already
>been sent out, and all many of us could do was shake our heads
>in disbelief at the damage this was likely to do. Proper
>analysis might have actually shown something interesting, but
>that had to occur at a higher level and at that point no one was
>going to pursue it.

>I think that it's too bad that the MUFON Symposium has become a
>social event, rather than a true scientific symposium. The real
>"science" involved in this research is very dry and often not
>easy to understand. And it certainly wouldn't attract many
>individuals who merely have an interest in the field.


Steve and Mike, as a female in this field with a background in
science and journalism, let me gently interupt your "gentlemanly
dialogue" so you do not misplace your well intended chivelry.

I should point out that Linda Moulton Howe herself was
announcing and posting numerous sketchy preliminary results of
analysis on the Brazilian bedsheet before any full report was in
- to her discredit. One of several serious reasons why we
cancelled her from our Seattle conference. So hey, please stop
using Linda as an example of virtue based on an observation five
years ago when the shoe doesn't fit. Linda's scream of claimed
"attack!" (oh please) as if she was on a chair and had seen a
mouse is simply her posturing because she can't answer
challenging questions from scientific investigative
professionals and her peers both male and female. Interviewing
Schussler about the Seattle Group cancelling her was hardly
newsworthy and came across as whining and it has not gone
unnoticed Linda tried to refute the full analysis of her own
scientific analyst Phyllis Budinger and qualified investigators
which has prompted them to speak out. Feel free of course to
draw your swords in defense of Linda but I also hope you have
taken dancing lessons to sidestep with her.

Also, lets face it, conferences are social events, we are human
after all - otherwise we might as well just be reading books and
message boards all the time. Networking and the chance for
people to meet with a common interest, shake hands, share
personal experiences and ask questions is where its at, in my
opinion - ground level support and disclosure. I am all for
making conferences as open and as public as possible to all age
and all levels of understanding rather than inherently shutting
people out.

I have gotton a kick out of seeing an eight-year-old engaged
with his dad watching a UFO Rods film for the first time, a
security guard leaning over a chair straining to hear a witness
report played by Peter Davenport and caterers fighting in the
back of the room to see who can stay to see the rest of Lloyd
Pye's hominoid presentation. These are the people we need to
reach and create awareness and not preach to the choir and
talking above a person's understanding is a dis-service. I
really believe the youth are our best critics - they have no
agenda. Impress the youth and you impress the parent. Impress
the parent and you impress the world. I recall over-hearing the
comments of a nine-year-old to his mother walking out of Seth
Shostak's Univ. of Washington presentation last year,
disappointed because because the boy wanted to see more data!
and less Star Trek pictures. (Seth if you read this take note!)

Overall, yeah, I agree MUFON can do better than presenting a
speaker supporting a bedsheet of an "organic farmer"/UFO cult
leader with a record of fraud, exploiting the UFO belief. We no
longer recognize MUFON and have discovered individuals stand on
their own merit and integrity.


Charlette LeFevre

Coordinator Seattle UFO/Paranormal Group





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 9

                    Re: What Is Real In Ufology? - Hebert

From: Amy Hebert <amyhebert@sbcglobal.net>
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:28:53 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 16:52:49 -0400
Subject: Re: What Is Real In Ufology? - Hebert


>From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
>To: UFO UpDates -Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 10:50:10 -0300
>Subject: What Is Real In Ufology?

<snip>

>I=B4m writing an article for the Brazilian UFO magazine the title
>"What Is Real In Ufology?". I'd like to hear your opinion.

I think a more accurate question would be "What Is Real In
Ufology And What Is Not?".

What's 'unidentified' to the general public may not be
unidentified to the military and/or governments of the world.
If governments and militaries of various countries are flying
prototypes and/or commissioned exotic technologies over people's
heads letting them think or leading them to think it's a "UFO",
how can we distinguish between the real UFO's and what may be
human technology with a pinch of CC&D? The next question is,
"Which UFOs are ours and which are not (i.e. man-made vs not
man-made)?"

...Not to mention sorting the real UFO reports, images, etc.
from the misinterpretations, misperceptions and deliberate
hoaxes.

Before we can ask what's "real" in Ufology, we must first ask
ourselves what's _not_ real and learn to distinguish between
fact and fantasy, skepticism and debunking, scientific inquiry
and belief and the consequences of neglecting these important
questions in our search for the truth.

IMHO

A. Hebert








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 9

              Re: Conventioneers Share Alien Theories - LeFevre

From: Charlette LeFevre <clefevre@oz.net>
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 13:27:54 -0700 (MST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 17:00:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Conventioneers Share Alien Theories - LeFevre


>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:52:59 -0300
>Subject: Re: Conventioneers Share Alien Theories

>>From: Charlette LeFevre <clefevre@oz.net>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 01:08:31 -0700 (MST)
>>Subject: Re: Conventioneers Share Alien Theories

>>>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com>
>>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:57:31 -0300
>>>Subject: Re: Conventioneers Share Alien Theories

><snip>

>>>Here is the letter I faxed the Detroit Free Press and emailed to Zlati
>>>Meyer

>>>FAX 1-313-222-6774
>>>Letters to the Editor
>>>Detroit Free Press

>>>Dear Editor:                   July 8, 2003

>>>As a nuclear physicist who spoke at the MUFON Symposium in
>>>Dearborn, I am writing to correct several false claims in ZLATI
>>>MEYER's article in the July 7, 2003, FP(5B):

<snip>

>>I believe the journalist mentions specifically the absence of
>>Ph.Ds presenting in which case your first comment supports Zlati
>>Meyer's observance and even so she still makes her point of the
>>disparity of MUFON's boasts and what it actually presents.

>>I am sure though she appreciates your fax and would have
>>appreciated your presentation on ionized seawater.

>>No doubt the analytical analysis of polyester threads of a
>>Brazilian bed sheet would have impressed her such that she would
>>have written an absolutely glowing article on MUFON and its
>>credentialed presenters proving the scientific reality of UFOs
>>once and for all.

>I have always been under the impression that a Masters Degree is
>an advanced degree. The term "advanced degree" does not, at
>least to me, apply only to a PhD, but applies to all degrees
>beyond a Bachelors.

>Please note that I did not use the strange term "ionized
>seawater". I said "electrically conducting fluid", which is an
>accurate description of seawater.

>I realize that you have been attacking Linda and supporting
>A.J., apparently without having read her paper. Surely one
>should have facts in hand before putting word processor in
>gear?


Stanton,

1. You confuse my and others "attacking" of Linda with "asking
valid challenging questions".

If giving A.J. Gevaerd - a National MUFON Director - a fair
opportunity to be heard in the United States along with 300
Brazilian Ufologists and the families that have been scammed due
to this UFO cult exploiting the UFO belief is taking sides, then
consider me an ambassador to Brazil standing in good company.

Of course I realize you and Linda are business collegues and I
don't expect that to change but I'll argue, any day, knowledge
of this case over your understanding. Just name the place and
time in any Seattle coffee house. Don't worry you don't need a
Ph.D. and I'm only 5'1" but I must warn you I've tangled with
the best of them.

I am well aware of Phyllis Budinger's comments on Ms. Howe and I
have read her full report on the analysis of the bedsheet.
Surely you have read this report and know the facts before you
are in a position to comment to others? Then spare me until
you've interviewed yourself the mother who was bilked of
thousands of dollars for her son who has lukeimia or Urandir's
former lawyer who now represents cheated land owners - most of
who were poor to begin with.

2. I believe its totally appropriate to read the article
statement as referring to Ph.Ds. only but then again I don't
believe your letter, Stanton, honestly was to clarify Ms.
Meyer's observation more so than taking an opportunity to
espouse yourself. Am I right?

For your review, again, the journalist's complete statement
regarding lack of advanced degrees at the Symposium.

"The convention program listed dozens of Ph.Ds as MUFON
consultants, but Bruce Maccabee, who has a doctorate in physics
from American University, was the only person with an advanced
degree presenting." - Zlati Meyer, Detroit Free Press 7/7/03.

3. I was being sarcastic when I said "ionized saltwater".

If you would like to further split hairs, please feel free to
comment to me directly.


Regards,

Charlette LeFevre
Seattle UFO/Paranormal Group







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 9

              Re: Investigator's Right To Investigate - Gevaerd

From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 17:29:20 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 18:46:25 -0400
Subject: Re: Investigator's Right To Investigate - Gevaerd


>From: Mike Bird <mikebird@interlog.com>
>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 02:33:00 -0400
>Subject: Investigator's Right To Investigate

<snip>

>As for the Oliveira case I was fully aware of the advanced
>criticism by A.J. Gaveard and others, that the case was a total
>fraud.

>Linda's presentation of the Oliveira case was very well done.
>She never once intimated that the case was the smoking gun for
>ufology. She presented a case based on the testimony of the
>claiment, and on the complex analysis of the bedsheets and
>rocks.

>It could very well turn out that Oliveira's claims are
>fradulent. But in the search for truth, all researchers should
>be allowed the right to investigate, and to report on their
>findings. I believe that A.J. Gaveard owes Linda Moulton Howe
>and and all other UFO researchers an apology.

>His efforts to smear and prevent Linda from presenting this case
>to the MUFON Conference are unprecidented. It is an affront to
>MUFON and to all researchers.

>A.J. probably doesn't remember that he and I had lunch together
>on the Sunday at the MUFON 96 Symposium in Greensboro NC. He
>sent me his very interesting glossy UFO magazine for 2 years.
>Unfortunately I don't read a word of Portugese. Unfortunately
>and more importantly I don't think that glossy magazines quite
>equates to gentlemanly behaviour.

>In this work, if we have a problem with anyone's research, we
>should not lose our composure, and attack the messenger. To do
>so is childish and makes one suspect to personal agenda.

>The data will always prevail. And gentlemanly dialogue is the
>best approach.

Dear Mike.

I don't remember you and the lunch we had together in
Greensboro. I wish I did. I am sorry.

You are terribly mistaken about some issues in you message. For
instance, I may owe LMH an apology for the way I may have
pronounced myself against her support of a hoax. And I may have
gone too far in my energetic defense of the ethics and decency
in Ufology, against hoaxers and hoaxes.

See, I always get too excited when I see people fabricating
hoaxes, people believing in hoaxes and - worst - people
promoting hoaxes.

Mike, with all due respect tou you and LMH, it is she who owes a
big appology to the entire world UFO community, who have worked
hard over the decades to build an acknowledgeble reputation and
credibility in this area. Her decision to make a hoax look like
a really extraordinary, legitimate and unquestionable truth is
disgusting, even much more than perpetrating a hoax itself.


A. J. Gevaerd

PS.: Are you the guy who went to Cuba and once sent me an e-
mails asking info about there?








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 9

                      Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Jacobson

From: Eric Jacobson <ejacobson74@comcast.net>
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 17:40:57 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 19:02:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Jacobson


>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 09:37:25 +0200
>Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants'

>>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>>Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:55:10 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants'

>>>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr>
>>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:30:18 +0200
>>>Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants'

>>>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
>>>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>>>>Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 10:31:32 -0400
>>>>Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants'

Dear Gildas, John, et al,

>>>I don't understand how you can reach such a conclusion. You
>>>should certainly read, first the book of Dr Leir, and then the
>>>many articles which I listed in my text on Dr Leir.

>>(If) there is anything anomalous or unusual about any of the
>>alleged implants that Leir recovered, why hasn't he published in
>>any peer review journals? He's a podiatrist/doctor, why hasn't
>>he submitted a report or a white paper to JAMA for instance?
>>(Journal of the American Medical Association)

>>I'm sorry but it just isn't good enough. If he has anything, let
>>him put it out there to be checked out by other scientists,
>>metallurgists, whoever.

>Yes, there has been an independant metallurgical analysis at New
>Mexico Tech. It has been published on the NIDS site, and in Dr
>Leir's book. The metallurgical findings have been judged very
>unusual by a competent expert that I know. So, it's not just a
>story in his book.

>As for an article in a peered scientific review, not to mention
>a headline in the New York Times, you must be aware of the
>difficulty. Especially for a simple podiatrist, rather isolated,
>so it seems, NIDS having withdrawn its support.

Gildas et al.

About nine years ago I attended a conference on abuction
reserach at the Temple University Institue for Frontier Science.
The topic of implants came up. Someone (I forget who, but
someone knowledgeable, this was an invitation-only conference
attended by established UFO and abduction researchers) talked
about the difficulty of determining that any tiny artifact was
extraterrestrial. Their preliminary research had revealed the
fact that the field of expertise in identifying microscopic
objects was even then (c. 1994) so large that no single expert
was competent to recognize all possible classes of such objects,
e.g. there were experts in metallurgic fragments, experts in
plant materials, experts in burned fragments, experts in animal
tissue, experts in meteor fragments, etc. The number of
documented variations in each class of micro-objects was simply
so large that it was all a person could do to specialize in a
sub-field. The outcome was that a panel of at least half a dozen
experts would have to examine an artifact before it could be
established that it was not a well-documented, recognizable,
terrestrial object.

This is why the pronouncements of Lier et al and of NIDS as
well, even given that "one metallurgists looked at it and said
it was very unusual" are totally un-convincing. If Lier, NIDS
and company were at all interested in sold scientific approach
they would convene such a panel, turn over their fragments and
report the outcome. There is no obstacle to their doing this
other than their disinterest in hearing the results. For my
money they'd all be recognized as terrestrial objects. The fact
that neither Lier nor NIDS have done this, and trumpet "results"
nevertheless, is all the indication we should need of their
total absence of serious scientific intent.


Best wishes,

Eric







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 9

                 Re: Sky & Telescope 'Facing Mars' - Tonnies

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:59:13 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 19:05:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Sky & Telescope 'Facing Mars' - Tonnies


>From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@charter.net>
>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:30:20 -0700
>Subject: Sky & Telescope 'Facing Mars'

>I just bought the August issue of Sky and Telescope. E.C.Krupp
>does a Sceptibunking article - what else - on the idea of
>artifical structures on Mars. He also demolishes - unfortunately
>not without justification - Richard '19.5' Hogland.

>He does not curiously, use any current pictures from the Mars
>Global Surveyor for instance, and just focuses on the history of
>the "Face" ala Hogland.

<snip>

Unfortunately, this is typical scientific fact management. It's
so much easier to attack the messenger than objectively deal
with a real curiosity.

Mac Tonnies

http://www.mactonnies.com/cydonia.html

=====
>Mac Tonnies (macbot@yahoo.com)

Explore MTVI @ http://www.mactonnies.com

Posthuman Blues: http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com (daily blog)








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 9

                          Vladimir Azhazha's Book?

From: Albert Rosales <Garuda79@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 18:23:32 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 19:44:37 -0400
Subject: Vladimir Azhazha's Book?


Can anybody tell me how to obtain Azhazha's book "New Life" a
Russian title on UFO encounters? I heard its on the Web as a zip
file, but so far I have been not able to find it.

Thank you,

Albert Rosales








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 10

                  Re: What Is Real In Ufology? - McGonagle

From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk>
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 23:57:40 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:07:54 -0400
Subject: Re: What Is Real In Ufology? - McGonagle


>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:51:02 -0300
>Subject: Re: What Is Real In Ufology?

>It has been my experience that people are most frightened of the
>unknown and that more people would just as soon wish NO UFOs
>were  of ET origin than wish that any  were. I don't see how the
>term "rigorous proof" fits in here. Physics experiements in a
>lab? Fine. But since testimony is so important in ufology, I
>think we need to look at our justice systems. Remember there are
>two standards: Beyond a reasonable doubt and a preponderence of
>the evidence.

To an extent, I agree with you. The investigator should however
eliminate as far as possible any mundane explanations for a
given case. Generally, that is as far as one can go before
concluding an exotic explanation. Often, the mundane
explanations are not adequately eliminated, as has frequently
been demonstrated when previously "undisputed" cases have been
followed up by more rigorous investigators/researchers.

I maintain that it is wrong to conclude "Alien intervention" in
cases that should be concluded as "not explainable in current
conventional terms". Roswell is an example-conceding for a
moment that unusual bodies were recovered from a crashed vehicle
of uknown origin, what evidence is there that they are alien in
the extraterrestrial sense? Nowhere have I heard of a plate
being found on the "spaceship" stamped with "made in the
pleiades". The bodies could conceivably be the results of early
genetic experiments for instance, the fact is that we don't
know, yet many people sieze the conclusion that because they
aren't immediately identifiable, they must be extraterrestrial-
why do they do so?

>Another problem I see in such discussions is asking the wrong
>question such as "What are UFOs?"  when quite obviously a much
>better question is "Are any UFOs...of ET origin or secret
>military systems or natural phenomena?"

I was attempting to respond to the question "What is real in
ufology". There is very little aside from what I have mentioned
that there is a broad consensus of opinion on. The people are
real, the original stimulus is real. The psychological aspect is
in my opinion real, though I daresay it may lack the consensus
of the the other two points.

>Considering the drop in church attendance, I am not at all sure
>there is a significant portion of the public that has a desire
>for a super being to address the ills of the world. Where is the
>evidence for this? I am quite skeptical. Where is the "rigorous
>proof" of this assertion?

I could spend several hours gathering statistics to show that a
large proportion of the world population are practicing Hindus,
Moslems, Christians, Jews, Aetherians, Raelians, Pagans,
Satanists, etc., but you don't seriously doubt this do you? I
agree that mainstream religions are reporting a reduction of
worshipers in most countries, but in some aeas (particularly
economically deprived areas) numbers are increasing. On the
other hand, many "new age" religions are booming, including the
various UFO cults. Also look at the proliferation of "God
channels" on TV, radio, and the internet. Currently, the Mormons
in the UK are advertising free videos on television-if their
numbers are so depleted, how can they afford to pay for
television advertising _and_ provide free videos?

>Stan Friedman

Regards, Joe








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 10

                   Re: What Is Real In Ufology - McGonagle

From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk>
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 00:09:14 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:09:06 -0400
Subject: Re: What Is Real In Ufology - McGonagle


>From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 13:23:01 -0500
>Subject: Re: What Is Real In Ufology

<snip>

I think that we actually agree on quite a lot of the topic in
hand, that the following are generally accepted within ufology
as "real":

1. The people
2. The stimuli

and possibly also

3. A racial propensity towards the existence of a super-being
able to address the ills of mankind.

Though I am not confident of the broad support for the third
point?


Regards,

Joe






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 10

             Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens - Pope

From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 00:27:18 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:10:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens - Pope


>From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 10:38:43 +0100
>Subject: Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens

>>From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 00:45:25 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens

>>>From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk>
>>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 19:12:48 +0100
>>>Subject: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens

>>Whilst this is a fascinating case, I can assure you that there
>>was no question of any RAF aircraft trying to shoot down UFOs.

>Hi Nick, list..

>The Observer's line about aircraft trying to shoot down UFOs
>originates in another incident, involving a USAF F-86 Sabre
>pilot, during the period 1956-57. He was ordered, by an RAF
>Ground Controlled Intercept station to fire his full salvo of
>'mighty mouse' rockets at a UFO tracked over East Anglia.

>The full testimony of the pilot, Milton Torres, can be found at:

>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/1998/jun/m07-034.shtml

>As far as I'm aware there is no official confirmation of this
>incident from the British or American records.

>But I'm sure the list would be interested to learn that "there
>was no question of any RAF aircraft trying to shoot down UFOs."

>That would suggest you have had access to material on this, or
>related incidents from the '50s that, we are assured, were
>destroyed in 1961. Paul Harris of the Observer was told these
>were lost "in a fire".

>Did you ever see any files or records related to the Lakenheath
>incident during your incumbency at Sec(AS)2?

Dave and List,

I'm pretty sure that I didn't see any official papers relating
to the 1956 Lakenheath case, though my tour of duty in Sec(AS)2
was some time ago (1991 to 1994), so I couldn't swear to this.

My statement concerning there being no question of RAF aircraft
being ordered to shoot down UFOs was based not on a specific
recollection of a particular document, but on my more general
knowledge of Rules of Engagement (ROE) and Standard Operating
Procedure (SOP). These aren't (as Jan Aldrich recognised in a
separate post) areas that I can talk about, for obvious reasons.

It's clear that some of the confusion with the Lakenheath case
stems from the fact that the report went to both the RAF and the
USAF, meaning that both Project Blue Book and the MOD were
involved. More generally, some of the language used in the
course of RAF operations might (falsely) imply hostile intent
towards UFOs: "shooting" film with "gun" cameras; tracking
"targets" on radar; attempting to "intercept" or "engage" a
mystery object; such terminology is pretty emotive. The RAF,
especially in the Cold War, did scramble jets in attempts to
identify and intercept objects which appeared to be flying at
unusually high heights or speeds, or displayed unusual
manoeuvrability; this happened on numerous occasions. But
ufologists and journalists are mistaken if they conclude that
this was indicative of any intention to shoot down a UFO.


Best wishes,

Nick Pope






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 10

                     Beverly Gleason On Gleason & Nixon

From: Grant Cameron <presidentialufo@presidency.com>
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 20:52:52 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:33:27 -0400
Subject: Beverly Gleason On Gleason & Nixon


Note: forwarded message attached.

----- Original Message -----
From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 09:09:01 -0400
To: presidentialufo@presidency.com
Subject: CONTACTED BEVERLY GLEASON (McKITTRICK)


"She (Hillary Clinton) told me once that some guy of our age had
walked up to her and said, You know, I would be really proud if
my daughter grew up to be like you, but I'm sure as hell am glad
as hell my wife isn't."

        --Ford, Nixon, Reagan, and Clinton presidential advisor
          David Gergen


-----

Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 09:09:01 -0400
From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
To: presidentialufo@presidency.com,
Subject: CONTACTED BEVERLY GLEASON (McKITTRICK)


INTERVIEW with BEVERLY GLEASON

This morning I spoke by telephone with Beverly Gleason
McKittrick, an ex-wife of the late comedian Jackie Gleason. I
explained to her that I was interested in the progress of her
book and if she could talk about Jackie Gleason's claim of
seeing alien bodies at Homestead Air Force Base in Florida.

She said that the book never came out as she had 'stopped
writing' of it. She said she was 'glad to get out of it' as
Jackie Gleason did not seem pleased with her quoting him on the
aliens in Florida. She said that there was not much additional
to tell as the whole story regarding Jackie Gleason and the
aliens, as far as she knew, had already been printed anyway.

"Esquire Magazine interviewed me after our separation," she
said, "and I talked about how Jackie told me about seeing dead
aliens in Florida. I think it was sometime in '74 when this
happened. When I said that it was because he told me."

"After the interview was published, Jackie was upset about the
story being public. He called and said he didn't appreciate me
giving the interview, and that's when I started to wonder if the
story was 'iffy.'

"The reason I became 'iffy' about it is because I wondered if it
was really true, I mean... I believed it the whole time. I
bought the story hook, line and sinker. But if it was true, then
why did he get so upset about it?"

Beverly went on to explain how Jackie came to tell her of his
experience.

"Jackie had been out very late one night I did not know who he
was with," She said. "He told me where he was that same evening,
he said he had been in South Florida with President Nixon to see
some dead aliens there and I believed him, he was very
convincing.

"He and Nixon were in contact quite a bit and I'm not sure how
that was arranged, but it seems that their meetings were set up
by an associate of Nixon's. After he got back, he was very
pleased he had an opportunity to see the dead little men in
cases, he explained to me what they looked like and he was still
talking about it the next day."

Beverly explained that during her interview with Esquire
Magazine, she made the statement about Gleason's claim to see
dead aliens and afterward things between her and Jackie turned
sour.

"We were on the verge of divorce, but everything was okay until
it came out in Esquire," she said.

She informed that Gleason never did deny the story.

Regarding her announced intention to write a book, Beverly again
said that she abandoned the project due in large part to
Gleason's objection to her comments about him seeing the aliens.

"I just made that one statement about the UFOs and it appeared
in Esquire and I guess a few other places and he didn't like
that and I thought, I just can't go through with this. Let him
live his life. So I never wrote the book."

I thanked Beverly for talking with me and asked if it would be
okay for me to call her back later if I had more questions, she
agreed. That concluded our conversation.

Special thanks to Donnie Blessing, Grant Cameron and David
Rudiak for their help in providing contact information for
Beverly Gleason McKittrick.


Filed,
JULY 9, 2003
KENNY YOUNG








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 10

                Re: Sky & Telescope 'Facing Mars' - Sterling

From: Rick L. Sterling <MarsCity1@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 21:58:10 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:41:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Sky & Telescope 'Facing Mars' - Sterling


>From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@charter.net>
>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:30:20 -0700
>Subject: Sky & Telescope 'Facing Mars'

>I just bought the August issue of Sky and Telescope. E.C.Krupp
>does a Sceptibunking article - what else - on the idea of
>artifical structures on Mars. He also demolishes - unfortunately
>not without justification - Richard '19.5' Hogland.

>He does not curiously, use any current pictures from the Mars
>Global Surveyor for instance, and just focuses on the history of
>the "Face" ala Hogland.

<snip>

It should be noted that NASA no longer agrees with Mr. Krupp's
comments in Sky & Telescope about the Face on Mars! The NASA
sponsored Sixth International Conference on Mars recently
accepted for presentation at the Conference Cydonia research by
Dr. Mark Carlotto & Dr. John Brandenberg.

See:

Dr. Mark Carlotto's Sixth International Conference On Mars Cydonia
Abstract:

http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/sixthmars2003/pdf/3208.pdf

Dr John Brandenberg's Sixth International Conference On Mars
Cydonia Abstract:

http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/sixthmars2003/pdf/3184.pdf

Obviously, NASA now considers alien artifacts on Mars a serious
possibility that should be investigated!


Rick L. Sterling

Member The Enterprise Mission

Contributor To The Stafford Commission Report
(Nuclear Propulsion Section) on President Bush Senior's
SEI Lunar-Mars Program







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 10

             Re: Conventioneers Share Alien Theories - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 00:16:23 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:46:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Conventioneers Share Alien Theories - Maccabee


>From: Charlette LeFevre <clefevre@oz.net>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 01:08:31 -0700 (MST)
>Subject: Re: Conventioneers Share Alien Theories

>>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:57:31 -0300
>>Subject: Re: Conventioneers Share Alien Theories

>>>Source: The Detroit Free Press

>>>http://www.freep.com/news/locway/nufo7_20030707.htm

>>>07-07-03>

>>>Conventioneers Share Alien Theories

>>>Dearborn discussion is UFOs, crop circles

>>>By Zlati Meyer
>>>Free Press Staff Writer

<snip>

>>1. Zlati claims that Dr. Bruce Maccabee was the only presenter
>>with an advanced degree. I spoke "Critiquing the Roswell
>>Critics", did a workshop "The Cosmic Watergate" and was on a
>>speaker panel. The Bio in the Symposium Proceedings notes that I
>>have an MSc. in Physics from the U. of Chicago. Presenter Linda
>>Howe is noted as having a Masters Degree in Communications from
>>having MS and MA degrees.

<snip>

>Stanton,

>I believe the journalist mentions specifically the absence of
>Ph.Ds presenting in which case your first comment supports Zlati
>Meyer's observance and even so she still makes her point of the
>disparity of MUFON's boasts and what it actually presents.

Actually she did mention my Ph.D Degree:

"The convention program listed dozens of Ph.Ds as MUFON
consultants, but Bruce Maccabee, who has a doctorate in physics
from American University, was the only person with an advanced
degree presenting."







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 10

              Re: Investigator's Right To Investigate - LeFevre

From: Charlette LeFevre <clefevre@oz.net>
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 02:06:12 -0700 (MST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:51:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Investigator's Right To Investigate - LeFevre


>From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 17:29:20 -0300
>Subject: Re: Investigator's Right To Investigate

>>From: Mike Bird <mikebird@interlog.com>
>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>>Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 02:33:00 -0400
>>Subject: Investigator's Right To Investigate

><snip>

>>As for the Oliveira case I was fully aware of the advanced
>>criticism by A.J. Gaveard and others, that the case was a total
>>fraud.

>>Linda's presentation of the Oliveira case was very well done.
>>She never once intimated that the case was the smoking gun for
>>ufology. She presented a case based on the testimony of the
>>claiment, and on the complex analysis of the bedsheets and
>>rocks.

>>It could very well turn out that Oliveira's claims are
>>fradulent. But in the search for truth, all researchers should
>>be allowed the right to investigate, and to report on their
>>findings. I believe that A.J. Gaveard owes Linda Moulton Howe
>>and and all other UFO researchers an apology.

>>His efforts to smear and prevent Linda from presenting this case
>>to the MUFON Conference are unprecidented. It is an affront to
>>MUFON and to all researchers.

>>A.J. probably doesn't remember that he and I had lunch together
>>on the Sunday at the MUFON 96 Symposium in Greensboro NC. He
>>sent me his very interesting glossy UFO magazine for 2 years.
>>Unfortunately I don't read a word of Portugese. Unfortunately
>>and more importantly I don't think that glossy magazines quite
>>equates to gentlemanly behaviour.

>>In this work, if we have a problem with anyone's research, we
>>should not lose our composure, and attack the messenger. To do
>>so is childish and makes one suspect to personal agenda.

>>The data will always prevail. And gentlemanly dialogue is the
>>best approach.

>I don't remember you and the lunch we had together in
>Greensboro. I wish I did. I am sorry.

>You are terribly mistaken about some issues in you message. For
>instance, I may owe LMH an apology for the way I may have
>pronounced myself against her support of a hoax. And I may have
>gone too far in my energetic defense of the ethics and decency
>in Ufology, against hoaxers and hoaxes.

>See, I always get too excited when I see people fabricating
>hoaxes, people believing in hoaxes and - worst - people
>promoting hoaxes.

>Mike, with all due respect tou you and LMH, it is she who owes a
>big apology to the entire world UFO community, who have worked
>hard over the decades to build an acknowledgeble reputation and
>credibility in this area. Her decision to make a hoax look like
>a really extraordinary, legitimate and unquestionable truth is
>disgusting, even much more than perpetrating a hoax itself.


I agree with A. J. Gevaerd.

It is Linda who owes an apology to A. J., the UFO Community and
to the public. But that will likely only happen when Linda admits
there is a 'Project Portal' UFO cult. Perhaps there needs to be
big bold white letters on a building for her to notice - just
like the one Urandir has, right there at his "organic farm"! Or
perhaps Linda simply needs a Portugese translator to translate
'Projeto' to 'Project'.

I also hope nobody is confusing A. J.'s well respected magazine
in Portugese with the U.S.'s UFO Magazine and its "gentlemanly
behaviour" of printing "Exotic Asian Women for terrestrial men"
in the back classifieds. I do believe that is printed in glossy
if I am not mistaken.

And A. J. a person can never go too far in defense of the ethics
and decency in Ufology, against hoaxers and hoaxes exploiting
the field. Keep up the good work.







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 10

               Internet Outage In The Washington DC Metro Area

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:03:58 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:53:52 -0400
Subject: Internet Outage In The Washington DC Metro Area


I regret any inconvenience, but a Worldcom outage in the
Washington region is preventing access to two web sites of
interest:

www.nicap.org

and

www.fufor.com

are both unreachable for the moment. My email is also impacted,
as is that of the Fund for UFO Research. Worldcom has been
working on the problem through the night and I suspect it will
be resolved this morning.

I will advise when this has been resolved.


Steve








                         The UFO UpDates Archive
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 10

               'Liquidation Of The UFO Investigators'? Article

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:05:18 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:05:18 -0400
Subject: 'Liquidation Of The UFO Investigators'? Article





>From: Loren Coleman <lcolema1@maine.rr.com>
>To: UFO-Involved <lcolema1@maine.rr.com>
>Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 10:40:42 -0400
>Subject: 'Liquidation Of The UFO Investigators'?

>Can anyone share with me an electronic, scanned, or photocopied
>copy of Otto Binder's 1971 Saga article, 'Liquidation of the UFO
>Investigators'? A Word .doc attachment would be great.

-----


Source: Jerry Hamm's Website

http://www.geocities.com/zoomar1/liquidation.html

EXCLUSIVE!

Liquidation Of The UFO Investigators!
By Otto O. Binder

Over the past 10 years, no less than 137 flying saucer
researchers, writers, scientists, and witnesses, have died -
 many under the most mysterious circumstances. Were they
silenced, permanently, because they got too close to the truth?

Before the 1967 Congress of Scientific Ufologists, Gray Barker,
the chairman, received two letters and one phone call telling
him that Frank Edwards, the noted radio newscaster and champion
of flying saucers, would die during the convention. One day
after the meeting was convened there was an announcement that
Frank Edwards had succumbed to an "apparent" heart attack. How
could anybody know that Edwards was going to die, unless it was
planned?

AND THAT'S CALLED MURDER!

The day was June 24, 1967, and the weather in New York City was
brutally hot. But inside the Commodore Hotal an icy shiver swept
the audience as Jim Moseley, Chairman of the first World UFO
Convention - officially called the Congress of Scientific
UFOlogists - made this startling announcement.

"Your attention please," he said. A silence fell over the
assembly. "We just heard some shocking news. Frank Edwards, the
noted broadcaster and champion of flying saucers, died of a
heart attack today. He was 59 years old."

A single gasp rose from 2,000 throats. Frank Edwards had been a
leading champion of the existence of UFOs and had forced the
public and the government to pay attention to this puzzling
phenomenon. He brought respect to the subject because of his
stature as a news reporter.

"I need not remind you of the extremely odd coincidence of this
news," Moseley continued, "that Frank Edwards' death occurred 20
years after - to the day - the UFOs first made big headlines in
America. It was on June 24, 1947, that Kenneth Arnold made his
famous sighting of nine flying saucers."

Actually, Frank Edwards died on June 23rd, a few hours before
midnight. But the coincidence is still there - as if his death
had been timed for that significant date.

Timed? By whom? Or was it chance?

Was it chance that two other prominent UFOlogists died on June
24, 1967, while two more died on June 24th of other years. he
four were:

Arthur Bryant, June 24, 1967. The contactee who claimed to have
met three Venusians, including the apparent reincarnation of
George Adamski, the most famous contactee in UFOdom.

Richard Church, June 24, 1967. The brilliant young chairman-
 elect of the UFOlogy group CIGIUFO, and an expert on UFOs.

Frank Scully, June 24, 1964. Scully wrote the first significant
book about UFOs - Behind the Flying Saucers - in which he
mentioned the "little men" or alien humanoids, electro-magnetic
powerplants of saucer, EM effects, and the Air Force's campaign
to hide the truth about UFOs from the public, all "ridiculous"
ideas that were later accepted.

Willie Ley, June 24, 1969. A well-known writer on rockets and
astronautics, Ley wasn't directly involved in UFOlogy but he
wrote about space travel. Flying saucers are space travelers.

So we have those directly connected with UFOlogy, plus Ley, all
of whom died on June 24th, three within hours of each other.

Why on that date? Chance?

Could it have been a warning?

Whatever, the fact remains that over the past 10 years, no less
than 137 UFO researchers and contactees have died. Many of the
deaths were surrounded by peculiar circumstances . The list is
too extensive to be covered in its entirety; only the most
prominent, then, will be named.

George Adamski, April 23, 1965. Victim of a heart attack
(according to the death certificate) in Silver Springs, Md. Dead
within hours despite emergency treatment. Cremated and buried in
Arlington National Cemetery. Adamski claimed to have seen a
flying saucer land in southern California. He said he had spoken
to its pilot, a Venusian, in front of witnesses, including
George Hunt Williamson. (Williamson disappeared mysteriously in
1965) Adamski also claimed to have traveled to Venus and to have
been in telepathic communication with saucermen. He toured the
world until his death, lecturing and relaying messages from "our
space brothers" to live in brotherhood and peace.

Truman Bethurum, May 21, 1969. Also claimed to have ridden to
other worlds in flying saucers. He was a quiet man who seemed
incapable of making up the fantastic adventures he had. He wrote
two books about them before dying quietly in bed.

Barney Hill, February 25, 1969. One of the most celebrated
contactees - with his wife Betty. John Fuller wrote a book about
them - The Interrupted Journey. The title refers to an
experience the Hills had in 1961 when they encountered a landed
saucer. They remembered nothing of the incident. But later,
under hypnosis, they described being conducted aboard the saucer
by little humanoids, and undergoing physical examinations. The
Hills told their story on TV and in lectures. Their sincerity
left little doubt as to the truth of their experience.

Mark Probert, February 22, 1969. The most prominent psychic in
BSRA (Borderland Science Research Associates), an organization
founded by Meade Layne. Probert acted as a "cosmic telephone"
link between Earth and an "inner circle" of departed spirits;
these spirits enabled Probert to contact saucermen. Reports of
the contacts were then published in the BSRA journal. He never
claimed to have seen saucermen in person or to have traveled in
saucers.

Meade Layne, 1968. Wrote several books on his beliefs in flying
saucers.

Dr. George Hunt Williamson. The first of two great mysteries.
Williamson disappeared while on an anthropological expedition to
Peru in 1965. He was noted for his explorations of ancient
Indian sites in the Andes, which he suspected were saucer bases,
landing fields, and cave headquarters. He believed the saucermen
were still there. Later, he experimented with shortwave radio
contact, claiming in 1952, that he had established
communications with UFOs. Saucers were observed hovering over
his radio shack during these broadcasts. Williamson wrote
several books about UFOs, the most noteworthy was The Road in
the Sky.

Dr. Raymond Bernard, Sept. 10, 1966? The question mark is used
because some believe Dr. Bernard is still alive. He produced
many books about the inner Earth. (The Hollow Earth, The Inner
World, etc.) which he believed to be inhabited by saucermen,
making them "inner Earthians" not extraterrestrials. Their
flying saucers rise out of the earth at the North and South
Poles, which, according to Dr. Bernard, are deep pits.

Dr. Morris K. Jessup, April 20, 1959. A scientist who firmly
believed in UFOs and who devoted his life to proving their
existence. Dr. Jessup was a distinguished astrophysicist. He
supervised the installing of the first important telescope in
the Southern hemisphere. He wrote several books on flying
saucers; the most famous was The Case for the UFO, 1955. Dr.
Jessup was found dead in his station wagon in a Coral Gables
(Fla.) park. Suicide was apparent; a rubber hose was attached to
the exhaust pipe and looped back into the interior. The death
certificate reads, "acute carbon monoxide intoxication." Dr.
Jessup's theory about UFO's is that they are vehicles by which a
pygmy race from outer space visited the Earth millions of years
ago. The pygmies built a civilization later destroyed by natural
calamity. Vestiges do exist in the pygmy tribes living on Earth
today. His hypotheses were rejected by the scientific
establishment.

Capt. Edward Ruppelt, 1960. Capt. Ruppelt headed the Air Force's
Project Bluebook for two and a half years. He was more
sympathetic to the cause of UFOs than his critics admitted. In
1956, he wrote The Report on Unidentified Flying Objects in
which he proved that the Air Force had no basis for denying the
existence of UFOs, eventually forcing it to release UFO
statistics. He kept the UFO pot bubbling before the public and
counteracted the anti-UFO theories of Dr. Donald Menzel.

Wilbert B. Smith, December 27, 1962. A leading scientist, he was
appointed head of the Canadian government's Project Magnet in
1950; the project was designed to investigate flying saucers,
taken seriously by the Canadians at that time. But the idea was
ridiculed by the press, and unsympathetic officials shelved it
four years later. Smith claimed to have received telepathic
messages from UFOs. He aided UFO groups in their researches; he
analyzed the famous "Ottawa chunk" and found traces of
"oddities" indicating that it was perhaps dumped from a UFO.

Dr. Olavo T. Fontes, May 9, 1968. Dr. Fontes, a distinguished
young Brazilian scientist. was South America's foremost UFO
booster. He investigated and reported innumerable cases,
including the classic Itupai Fortress attack by a UFO using heat
rays. Unlike hesitant U.S. scientists, Dr. Fontes boldly
challenged the "official" viewpoint. He concluded that saucers
were "sizing Earth up" for conquest. He maintained this grirn
view until his death.

The Rev. Della Larson, October, 1965. A contactee who claimed
Venusians were living on earth among us. She committed suicide
in a rest home by hanging herself with a nylon stocking.

Gloria Lee (Byrd), December 1, 1962. She said space people had
told her to go on the fast during which she died.

H. T. Wilkins, 1966. Died following a heart attack. Well-known
for his two books on UFOs, Flying Saucers on the Attack and
Flying Saucers Uncensored. Like Dr. Fontes, Wilkins was
convinced the saucermen were here for the possible conquest of
earth.

Dr. Charles A. Maney, November 8, 1965. A scientist who risked
his reputation by taking UFOs seriously, he wrote - Challenge of
Unidentified Flying Objects (in collaboration with Richard Hall
of NICAP). A professor at Defiance College in Ohio, he utilized
scientific statistical methods to promote the case for UFOs, and
"scolded" science for its indifference toward the UFO phenomena.

Capt. Robert Loftin, November 21, 1968. Ironically , Loftin's
book - Identified Flying Objects - was published just a few
months before his death. In it he demonstrated that aerial
flying objects were "identified" - that is, were identified as
real, not illusory.

Clara John, 1968. Former editor of Little Listening Post, after
a long illness.

Hazen Coon, 1968. One of Joan Whritenour's staff of reporters at
Saucer Scoop.

Ralph Holland, January 26,1962. Former editor of A Voice From
the Gallery.

Chuck Roberts, February 13, 1969. A police radio dispatcher who
joined the staff of Saucer Scoop.

Bernard Cox, January 1969. Member of SAUCERS, the Australian UFO
organization.

Edgar Jarrold, 1960. Australian UFOlogist who vanished
mysteriously.

Marie Ford, Suicide. A young UFO enthusiast who found the body
of the Rev. Della Larson.

Doug Hanock, 1968, Suicide. A UFO researcher who was confined to
a mental hospital. He managed to obtain a gun and shot himself.

Damon Runyon, Jr., April 14, 1968, Suicide. Son of the famous
sports writer. Involved with the investigation of President
Kennedy's assassination; and a writer on UFOs. Saucer Scoop said
that young Runyon "fell, jumped, or was pushed off" a
Washington, D.C., bridge.

Henry F. Koch, 1966. Publicity director of the Universal
Research Society of America. He was written up in Flying Saucers
as having made a UFO sighting on April 3, 1966, and dying
mysteriously a few weeks later. The death certificate said of a
heart attack. The magazine suggested the cause of death was
saucer radiation.

Dr. B. Noel Opan, August 23, 1959. Dr. Opan made a UFO a
sighting and later was allegedly kidnapped by three MIBs (Men in
Black) from his home in Wellington, Ontario, Canada. He was
never seen again.

Bryant Reeve, December 1968: Author, with his wife, of Flying
Saucer Pilgrimage. Bryant and Helen Reeve traveled extensively
and interviewed many UFO celebrities - Adamski, Mark Probert.
Truman Bethurum, and others.

Dag Hammarskjold, September 19, 1961. Known for his general
"saintliness" as head of the U.N., and no disbeliever in UFOs,
Hammarskjold was killed in a plane crash in Southern Rhodesia. A
witness, Timothy Kankasa, swore he saw a craft above the
airliner. The UFO emitted beams of light resembling a "flashing
torch." The question is: Did saucermen tamper electronically
with the airliner, causing it to crash?

And this leads us to the broader question: Did saucermen
engineer the deaths of those in our above list?

Let's examine this carefully before condemning it as utter
"nonsense" or an attempt at "sensationalism."

First, various UFOlogists have revealed threats against
themselves either from MIBs or other mysterious sources. In the
publication MIB: A Report on the Mysterious Men in Black Who
Have Terrorized UFO Witnesses and Investigators in All Parts of
the Nation - Robert S. Easley writes: "The first real act of
violence on the part of the 'Three Men' came on February 25,
1968. On that date I had given a UFO lecture to a group of Boy
Scouts and their parents. As I was walking out to my car
afterwards, at about 9:45 p.m., I was shot at by two men in a
car without any lights on. Later that same evening I received
another mysterious phone call . . . 'if you and your buddies are
not out of the saucer field by next Sunday we will have to take
other means of action (to put you out).' "

Gray Barker, well-known publisher in the UFO field, tells (in
Spacecraft News #3) how, when investigating the notorious
"mothman" rumors near Pt. Pleasant, W. Va., he found a note on
his door saying - somewhat ungrammatically, "ABANDON YOUR
RESEARCH OR YOU WILL BE REGRET. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED."

Similar stories have come from dozens of other UFO
investigators. They can hardly all be hoaxes or pranks.
Somebody, or something, has been threatening those involved with
UFOs, threats that in some cases seem to have been fulfilled.

We might also heed the words of John Keel, who more than any
other investigator has sought to uncover the mystery of UFO's
and MIB's. Keel said in Saucer Scoop, that he believes the MIB's
to be "the intelligence arm of a large and possibly hostile
group;" and that they are professional terrorists. "Among their
many duties is the harassment of the UFO researchers who become
involved in cases which might reveal too much of the truth."

"Many duties" may well include outright murder of victims,
though in such a skillful way that the police aren't aware the
murders even occurred. How is this done?

Frank Edwards and Frank Scully presumably died of heart attacks;
Wilbert B. Smith and Dr. Olavo Fontes of cancer; and Barney Hill
of a brain hemorrhage. All of them died relatively young, none
over 59.

We will now ask: can heart-attacks, cancer and other diseases he
induced in people in some unusual way?

Consider this angle on Frank Edwards, as reported by Brad
Steiger and Joan Whritenour in SAGA: "Edwards was warned to lay
off UFO investigation," we (the two authors) were told. "He had
been visited by the same three Men in Black that shut up Albert
K. Bender" (a former UFO investigator who was hounded into
silence by MIBs.

"Nonsense," another delegate said (the authors reported). "Frank
had been ill for six months. . ."

"Not true," argued yet another UFOlogist in the SAGA article.
"Frank has never been ill. Check the obituary. It reads that
death was 'apparently' due to a heart attack. How many other
researchers have died of an 'apparent' something or other?"

This conversation occurred at the 1967 Congress of Scientific
UFOlogists following the announcement of the death of Frank
Edwards. And radio personality Long John Nebel, in his recent
book, The Psychic Worid Around Us, tells how Gray Barker, just
before the convention, showed him two mysterious unsigned
letters stating that Frank Edwards would die during that
convention. "On Thursday afternoon," continues Nebel, "just a
few hours before he was due at WNBC (for an interview), Barker
phoned again. 'John', he said, 'something happened a few minutes
ago that really shook me up! I got a phone call from a man who
said that Edwards would not live to see the end of the
convention. That's all he said before he hung up. The tone of
his voice scared me. It was like nothing I've ever heard before,
like something not human!"

So before the convention and before June 23rd when Edwards died,
Gray Barker is on record as having received two letters and one
phone call, all predicting the death of the newsman. How could
anybody know Edwards would die in advance? . . . unless it was
planned? How was the heart attack induced? We must also ask
ourselves if all the heart-attack cases, plus those involving
cancer, brain hemorrhages, and pneumonia should be suspect? And
even if such "natural" deaths can be induced, suicide would
still be easier to accomplish. You can't tell a man
(hypnotically or by telepathy) to have a heart-attack, but you
can tell him to take his own life.

This brings us to the greatest mystery of all - the alleged
suicide of Dr. Morris K. Jessup. Most of his closest friends had
no idea he would kill himself. But John P. Bessor, one of
Jessup's intimates, points out that Jessup was a very
"disappointed" and "discouraged" man, over his losing battle to
make UFOs "respectable" among scientists.

Capt. Bruce Cathie of Australia, author of Harmonic 33 (about a
UFO "grid" around earth), says, "When Dr. Morris K. Jessup died
in 1959, he had just completed a long and detailed report
claiming to prove that the U.S. Navy, during a top secret
wartime experiment, caused a warship and its crew to become
invisible . . . That, the full story has not yet been released
is due, in part, to a restriction imposed by Dr. Jessup himself,
when he decreed that his report should not be published less
than five years and not more than 10 years after his death. The
present ending to his story is as fantastic as the invisible
ship itself. In 1959, Dr. Jessup handed all his documents on the
case to a close friend to be held in trust, and he then headed
for a holiday in Florida . . . Three days later he was found
dead in his car. . ."

But Gray Barker, in his book The Strange Case of Dr. M. K.
Jessup, gives the most startling data. He reports that Richard
Ogden, a UFO researcher of Seattle, Wash., sent a message
saying, in part: "Now as for Jessup, his suicide was a frame-up.
Jessup fell victim to hypnotism. He was sent a tape-recording
that contained self-destruction suggestions . . .This is what
happened to Jessup. It was cold-blooded murder!"

Ogden never documented his claims so the validity of his charges
is open to question. But Jessup did write "suicide notes" to
several of his friends, including Long John Nebel.

The most intriguing of the suicide theories stems from the fact
that Jessup was a great friend of the medium, Mark Probert, and
believed in spirit communications. Jessup was quoted by members.
of BSRA as giving a strange farewell comment before his death:
"I go to prove for myself the reality of worlds beyond time and
space." After Jessup's death, Probert received a long scientific
disseirtation on life-after-death but the sender would not name
himself, but hinted that it was indeed Jessup.

Jessup always seemed to be a special target for weird
happenings. A copy of his book - The Case for the UFO - was
returned with marginal notes throughout, made by three men who
referred to themselves as "aliens." Many of their notations
indicated they knew superscience and were familiar with saucer
craft. This marked copy was sent to the Navy, which took it
seriously and consulted Dr. Jessup, who could throw no light on
the rnystery.

Jessup also received letters from a "Carlos Allende" (the famous
"Allende Letters" case) referring to a Navy ship becoming
invisible and being teleported from one city to another. This
mystery was never cleared up.

The whole Jessup affair remains an unsolved riddle to this day.

Another riddle is the strange disappearance of Dr. Raymond
Bernard. Dr. Bernard lived his later life on the island of Santa
Catarina, off the coast of Brazil. Although he himself never
reached the "inner world" he wrote about, he claimed to know
others who did, and who disappeared before they could lead him
below.

Bernard once wrote UFO researcher, Timothy Beckley, that his
(Bernard's) life was in constant danger from the inner-earth
beings. Bernard presumably died at his home in December 1966,
but Gray Barker said ". . . efforts to obtain a copy of the
death certificate, or proper information from the American
Embassy, have been to no avail." Bernard said he would allow
Barker to publish his book, The Hollow Earth, only if he had
died or was "successful in finding an entrance into the inner
earth." This was included in Barker's brochure for the book,
"Was Dr. Bernard Swallowed up by the Inner Earth?"

Thus we don't know if Dr. Raymond Bernard is buried six feet
under - or 1,000 miles under.

Another mystery is the disappearance of Dr. George Hunt
Williamson in 1965. We can add little to this enigma except a
rumor that has him "living quietly on the West Coast." If true,
why has he dropped all contact with his friends and become such
a mystery figure? Could he have been silenced by the MIBs?

We might add one other "death" of a different kind - the TV show
"The Invaders," killed in 1967. According to Saucer News the
show was not dropped due to poor ratings but because of the
impending resignation of Roy Thinnes, the star. Thinnes was
supposedly threatened on various occasions when the show dealt
with topics "too hot to handle." When Thinnes himself was asked
for a comment on the show's demise, he said: "I have no comment
other than the fact that there is more truth behind the TV plots
than most people realize."

The point is obvious. Thinnes may have received threats to quit
-- or run the risk of joining Frank Edwards, George Hunt
Williamson, and the others. His show always featured aliens
posing as humans, and acting quite like the MIBs - cause enough
for the real MIBs to get after him.

All of this is not meant to frighten anyone who takes an active
part in the UFO field. In fact, another and very startling
viewpoint can be taken in regard to the "premature" deaths of
UFOlogists.

Can it be that when such important "UFO evangelists" as Frank
Edwards, Morris K. Jessup, Mark Probert, and the others have
"fulfilled their task" in behalf of "preaching" UFOlogy, they
are "taken away" deliberately for their own sakes? That is,
having met the scorn and blind opposition of the unheeding world
long enough, are they then mercifully removed from the
"battlefront"?

This, you see, puts a different light on the deaths of
UFOlogists. Maybe they are being rewarded, not punished. Maybe
they are "taken within the fold." Who knows?

At any rate, something must account for the high death rate
among UFOlogists. That "something" may either be the secret
machinations of the UFO hierarchy who decides which earth-people
"know too much about flying saucers," or the planned removal of





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 10

                    Re: hat Is Real In Ufology - Fleming

From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:28:51 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:13:03 -0400
Subject: Re: hat Is Real In Ufology - Fleming


>From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk>
>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 00:09:14 +0100
>Subject: Re: What Is Real In Ufology - McGonagle

>>From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com>
>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 13:23:01 -0500
>>Subject: Re: What Is Real In Ufology

><snip>

>I think that we actually agree on quite a lot of the topic in
>hand, that the following are generally accepted within ufology
>as "real":

>1. The people

>2. The stimuli

>and possibly also

>3. A racial propensity towards the existence of a super-being
>able to address the ills of mankind.

I think your list is too short. Other things that are real are:

4. Government documents on UFO incursions into military areas,

5. Radar detection cases,

6. Ground trace cases,

7. Photos and videos that show no indication of being hoaxes.

You may have been thinking these other things belong in the
single category "stimuli," but stimuli would include Venus,
weather balloons, and overindulgence in alcoholic beverages.  I
think there's a profound difference between those "prosaic"
types of stimulus and the categories I listed. In my opinion,
numbers 4 through 7 are the real stimuli that explain why public
interest is so high after 50 years of debunking campaigns
sanctioned by the government and in some cases financed by it.

>Though I am not confident of the broad support for the third
>point?


Some people, like Steven Greer, do seem to attribute benevolent
motives to ETs. But other people attribute malevolent motives to
them. Still others, like myself, have no idea what the motives
of any ETs in visiting Earth might be. I suspect their motives
would be largely incomprehensible to us. I think the
psychological need for a benevolent "super being" has far more
to do with the existence of churches than it does with the UFO
phenomenon.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 10

               Re: Investigator's Right To Investigate - Burns

From: Max Burns <max.burns@ntlworld.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:06:53 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:15:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Investigator's Right To Investigate - Burns


>From: Charlette LeFevre <clefevre@oz.net>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 02:06:12 -0700 (MST)
>Subject: Re: Investigator's Right To Investigate

>>From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 17:29:20 -0300
>>Subject: Re: Investigator's Right To Investigate

>>>From: Mike Bird <mikebird@interlog.com>
>>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>>>Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 02:33:00 -0400
>>>Subject: Investigator's Right To Investigate

>><snip>

Dear Listers

I have been following this thread with some interest for a while
now. AJ, I know you and we have talked on the phone and we have
met at the 1997 Laughlyn Conference. I am a friend of G.C. Cope
Shellhorn. you met me while GC and myself were having a few
beers. Mike and Charlette I do not know you yet.

Just my two cents.

>>>It could very well turn out that Oliveira's claims are
>>>fradulent. But in the search for truth, all researchers should
>>>be allowed the right to investigate, and to report on their
>>>findings. I believe that A.J. Gaveard owes Linda Moulton Howe
>>>and and all other UFO researchers an apology.

I agree all investigators have the right to investigate, however
Linda in my opinion should have listened to what she was being
told by AJ and the rest of the Brazillian investigators who have
been looking at the claims of this case for some time before
Linda got in on the act.

From my understanding these are the claims of what appears to be
a UFO cult. "Cults" brainwash the members into handing over
their assets cash and anything else of value. Also on many
occasions isolating members from their friends and family. This
is the control. It is always about the money and the control. I
stand corrected if I am wrong but also this man and his drones
are also selling all sorts of things raising more money. Under
those conditions what anyone has to say if they are a member of
this group is a mute point. They will only be repeating what
they have been told. An apology hmmmm a rare thing in ufology.

I can add this. A couple of years ago Linda was on one of her
regular visits to Wiltshire UK for the crop circles. She met and
talked with one of the circle makers who offered to take Linda
out and to make a crop circle while she watched. She refused and
changed her tack became as we say here in the UK a bit shirty
and then said that she was not interested in the crop circles.
She was now interested in the balls of light that have been
reported and videoed over the the south of England.

A change of direction when the facts were offered to be shown
and demonstrated to her. make of that what you will.

>>>His efforts to smear and prevent Linda from presenting this case
>>>to the MUFON Conference are unprecidented. It is an affront to
>>>MUFON and to all researchers.

Well actually I have been at the sharp end of much more severe
action in the UK with efforts to prevent me from presenting
facts from a case that I have been investigating. I uphold
Linda' right to prevent what she considers the facts. You must
also uphold the right of the Brazillian researchers on the
ground who have spent a great deal of time on the case

They have proved I believe a number of points that casts doubt
on the case. It is never a bad thing to re-evaluate the facts of
any case and revise your conclusions based on new evidence. Some
ufologists see this as some kind of climb down and ego prevents
them from doing this. I just see it as work in progress

<snip>

>>>In this work, if we have a problem with anyone's research, we
>>>should not lose our composure, and attack the messenger. To do
>>>so is childish and makes one suspect to personal agenda.

You may be right in some cases however in this case, I see a
dedicated Brazillian researcher and magazine editor doing his
best to stop the pollution of Brazillian ufology. With what he
considers as do many of his colleagues. A massive hoax being
perpetrated on The World of ufology by another "Heavens Gate"
type cult who's leaders only motive is power control and money
at the expence of the truth and his poor disciples chance of
freedom of choice. If anything AJ has tried to show Linda the
facts and she has ignored them pretty much in the same way as
she did in Wiltshire over the crop circles.


>>>The data will always prevail. And gentlemanly dialogue is the
>>>best approach.

We can only hope.

<snip>

>>You are terribly mistaken about some issues in you message. For
>>instance, I may owe LMH an apology for the way I may have
>>pronounced myself against her support of a hoax. And I may have
>>gone too far in my energetic defense of the ethics and decency
>>in Ufology, against hoaxers and hoaxes.

>>See, I always get too excited when I see people fabricating
>>hoaxes, people believing in hoaxes and - worst - people
>>promoting hoaxes.

AJ, You wrote on this List some time ago that Hoaxes and Hoaxers
should be tirelessly exposed no matter what the cost. I agree,
find out who these people are expose them and ufology should
turn your back on them they are then disarmed

>>Mike, with all due respect tou you and LMH, it is she who owes a
>>big apology to the entire world UFO community, who have worked
>>hard over the decades to build an acknowledgeble reputation and
>>credibility in this area. Her decision to make a hoax look like
>>a really extraordinary, legitimate and unquestionable truth is
>>disgusting, even much more than perpetrating a hoax itself.

Well said


>I agree with A. J. Gevaerd.

>It is Linda who owes an apology to A. J., the UFO Community and
>to the public. But that will likely only happen when Linda admits
>there is a 'Project Portal' UFO cult. Perhaps there needs to be
>big bold white letters on a building for her to notice - just
>like the one Urandir has, right there at his "organic farm"! Or
>perhaps Linda simply needs a Portugese translator to translate
>'Projeto' to 'Project'.

>I also hope nobody is confusing A. J.'s well respected magazine
>in Portugese with the U.S.'s UFO Magazine and its "gentlemanly
>behaviour" of printing "Exotic Asian Women for terrestrial men"
>in the back classifieds. I do believe that is printed in glossy
>if I am not mistaken.

>And A. J. a person can never go too far in defense of the ethics
>and decency in Ufology, against hoaxers and hoaxes exploiting
>the field. Keep up the good work.


My sentiments entirely. There will be some news about Hoaxing in
the UK by prominent UK ufologists soon. Watch this space.

Max







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 10

               Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens -

From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:31:1 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:18:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens -


>From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 00:27:18 +0100
>Subject: Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens

>>From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 10:38:43 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens

>>>From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk>
>>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 00:45:25 +0100
>>>Subject: Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens

<snip>

>>Did you ever see any files or records related to the Lakenheath
>>incident during your incumbency at Sec(AS)2?

>I'm pretty sure that I didn't see any official papers relating
>to the 1956 Lakenheath case, though my tour of duty in Sec(AS)2
>was some time ago (1991 to 1994), so I couldn't swear to this.

>My statement concerning there being no question of RAF aircraft
>being ordered to shoot down UFOs was based not on a specific
>recollection of a particular document, but on my more general
>knowledge of Rules of Engagement (ROE) and Standard Operating
>Procedure (SOP). These aren't (as Jan Aldrich recognised in a
>separate post) areas that I can talk about, for obvious reasons.

>It's clear that some of the confusion with the Lakenheath case
>stems from the fact that the report went to both the RAF and the
>USAF, meaning that both Project Blue Book and the MOD were
>involved. More generally, some of the language used in the
>course of RAF operations might (falsely) imply hostile intent
>towards UFOs: "shooting" film with "gun" cameras; tracking
>"targets" on radar; attempting to "intercept" or "engage" a
>mystery object; such terminology is pretty emotive. The RAF,
>especially in the Cold War, did scramble jets in attempts to
>identify and intercept objects which appeared to be flying at
>unusually high heights or speeds, or displayed unusual
>manoeuvrability; this happened on numerous occasions. But
>ufologists and journalists are mistaken if they conclude that
>this was indicative of any intention to shoot down a UFO.


Further comments on the Torres incident. His account gives no
doubt that the intention was to shoot down the UFO. Now maybe
this was a test of readiness of the force and combined
operations or maybe it was a real incident. (see more on this
below) Since USAF aircraft were on the UK quick reaction roster,
well in advance, the rules of engagement had to be established
probably on both a political level and in memos of understands
between the two air forces. Such material had to take into
account difference of in training, equipment, and tactics. (One
communications class I attended claimed that the thumbs up
signal for the US Marine Corps pilots meant everything was okay
while to the USAF it meant "punch out," eject from the aircraft.
One can see the problems with different Services from the same
country would be even more so when other military are involved.)
 Rules or engagement are not in the public view for obvious
reasons.

The Torres incident might have been radar spoofing and here I
set forth what I feel are the factors for and against it:

For spoofing:

1) The incident occurred during a storm when it would be
possible to hide airborne electronic jammers and spoofers

2) The lack of visual contact because of the weather would
increase the realism of the incident,

3) Torres was questioned not by USAF or MOD personnel but by an
agent from NSA,

4) The brightness of the radar target was beyond anything Torres
ever experienced, and

5) GCI ordered engagement of the traget with the full load of
missiles (was this pre-arranged in the exercise or had GCI been
watching the target before the scramble and received the orders
to bring it down?)

Against spoofing:

1) GCI and AI targets coincided remarkable. GCI vectored Torres
on to the target and he picked it up. Pretty go stuff for 1957!
Also, the target disappeared from Torres' screen and moved off
the GCI scope at high speed the same time.

2) As Torres pointed out, a huge metallic target of the size he
encountered would give an exceptional bright radar target.

3) Weather conditions such as storms sometime enhances the
appearance of radar targets.

4) The reaction time for a spoofing target was remarkable. Just
a fraction of a second longer and Torres would have fired all
his rockets. The safety factor here with rocket falling over the
country side would be a problem for both governments. Also, the
reaction time is something that could not be accounted for due
to the pilot's increased adrenaline. The margin of safety in
this case was too fine.

5) Conducting such an exercise during a heavy storm increases
the risk of unsafe acts or accidents.


Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
http://www.project1947.com/
P. O. Box 391
Canterbury, CT 06331
(860) 546-9135







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 10

                Re: Sky & Telescope 'Facing Mars' - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:16:47 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:19:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Sky & Telescope 'Facing Mars' - Stanford


>From: Rick L. Sterling <MarsCity1@aol.com>
>To: ufoupdates@sympatico.ca
>Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 21:58:10 EDT
>Subject: Re: Sky & Telescope 'Facing Mars'

>>From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@charter.net>
>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:30:20 -0700
>>Subject: Sky & Telescope 'Facing Mars'

>>I just bought the August issue of Sky and Telescope. E.C.Krupp
>>does a Sceptibunking article - what else - on the idea of
>>artifical structures on Mars. He also demolishes - unfortunately
>>not without justification - Richard '19.5' Hogland.

>>He does not curiously, use any current pictures from the Mars
>>Global Surveyor for instance, and just focuses on the history of
>>the "Face" ala Hogland.

><snip>

>It should be noted that NASA no longer agrees with Mr. Krupp's
>comments in Sky & Telescope about the Face on Mars! The NASA
>sponsored Sixth International Conference on Mars recently
>accepted for presentation at the Conference Cydonia research by
>Dr. Mark Carlotto & Dr. John Brandenberg.

Rick,

Thanks for sharing that encouraging news that another view of
Mars will be heard.

However, in saying, "It should be noted that NASA no longer
agrees with Mr. Krupp's comments in Sky & Telescope about the
Face on Mars!..." is it realistic to regard NASA as 'monolithic'
in view, in saying that NASA, per se, no longer agrees with
Krupp?

Does acceptance of a presentation by Mark Carlotto and John
Brandenberg really mean that the official position has changed,
or does it more likely mean, at best, that the person or persons
(at whatever level in NASA) in a position of accepting papers
simply decided that it is time to let another view of Mars be
heard?

Ray Stanford

"You know my method.  It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 10

             Re: Internet Outage In Washington DC Area - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:02:36 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:21:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Internet Outage In Washington DC Area - Kaeser


The Internet issues discussed below have apparently been
resolved. Your patience and understanding is appreciated.







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 10

             Re: Investigator's Right To Investigate - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:38:34 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:23:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Investigator's Right To Investigate - Stanford


>From: Charlette LeFevre <clefevre@oz.net>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 02:06:12 -0700 (MST)
>Subject: Re: Investigator's Right To Investigate

<snip>

>...a person can never go too far in defense of the ethics
>and decency in Ufology, against hoaxers and hoaxes exploiting
>the field. Keep up the good work.

Amen!

Ray Stanford

"You know my method.  It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 10

             Sci-Fi Channel Kecksberg & Rendelsham Documentaries

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:47:41 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:25:47 -0400
Subject: Sci-Fi Channel Kecksberg & Rendelsham Documentaries


SCI FI GOES "CSI"

New "Declassified" specials hosted by Bryant Gumbel
seek the forensic truth behind UFO incidents

This fall, SCI FI Channel will introduce a series of original
two-hour primetime documentary specials, in the spirit of last
year's highly successful The Roswell Crash: Startling New
Evidence.  The SCI FI Declassified franchise will launch with
two groundbreaking investigations, hosted by Bryant Gumbel
(CBS's The Early Show, NBC's Today Show), that uncover stunning
new evidence utilizing the quantifiable, forensic tools of
modern science.  SCI FI moves outside Roswell to chronicle fresh
forensic testing in connection to two unsolved cases involving
unknown objects from space -- one in Pennsylvania, and one in
Great Britain.

The SCI FI Declassified franchise reinforces the Channel's
commitment to airing documentaries that further serious public
inquiry and understanding of the UFO phenomenon.  Last year, SCI
FI launched a Washington, DC based public advocacy initiative to
draw greater attention to the UFO phenomenon by the media,
scientists and opinion leaders. The Channel is currently
lobbying Congress to gain support for more scientific inquiry
into these issues.

The specials include:

KECKSBURG: PENNSYLVANIA'S ROSWELL (tentative title)

Bryant Gumbel returns to host the first of this year's SCI FI
Declassified specials. This two-hour groundbreaking
investigation examines the startling events in Kecksburg,
Pennsylvania -- where in 1965 witnesses saw a fireball in the
evening sky, a controlled landing and the military recovery of
an object. With all-new scientific forensic analyses, new
witnesses and the results of an extensive effort to obtain
declassified government documents, this October SCI FI reveals
startling new evidence concerning this decades old mystery --
 and includes an update from last fall's Roswell special on the
findings at the excavated crash site.


RENDLESHAM: THE UK's ROSWELL (tentative title)

SCI FI travels across the Atlantic to expose one of the most
notorious UFO incidents of the twentieth century, a series of
events that occurred near an American military base in Rendlesham
Forest, England in 1980.  Unlike Roswell, a majority of witnesses
(civilians and former military) are still alive and have finally
come forward to participate and provide new evidence for SCI FI's
investigation.  Rendlesham was recently catapulted back into the
headlines after the British government acknowledged it classified
documents to cover-up the incident. Hosted by Bryant Gumbel.


KECKSBURG: PENNSYLVANIA'S ROSWELL and RENDLESHAM: THE UK's
ROSWELL are MPH Entertainment productions for SCI FI.  Launched
in 1996, MPH has produced over 130 hours of primetime television
programming and two independent feature films, including co-
producing the 2002 smash hit My Big Fat Greek Wedding.  Notable
among MPH's many television projects are SCI FI Channel's The
Roswell Crash: Startling New Evidence and Martian Mania: The
True Story of the War of the Worlds, cable's The Lost Dinosaurs
of Egypt, Founding Fathers, Discovery Channel's Eco-Challenge
Australia, Las Vegas: Gamble in the Desert and Sea Tales.



SCI FI Channel transmits fantastic images to 80 million human
homes. Launched in 1992, SCI FI features a continuous stream of
cinematic hits, new and original series, and special events, as
well as classic sci-fi, fantasy, and horror programming. Check
out SCIFI.COM=AE, the SCI FI Channel's award-winning Web site, at
www.scifi.com. SCI FI Channel is a program service of Universal
Television Networks, part of the Universal Television Group
(www.universalstudios.com), a division of Vivendi Universal
Entertainment (VUE), the U.S.-based film, television and
recreation entity of Vivendi Universal, a global media and
communications company.



# # #



Contact:

Kat Stein/Trade                    212-413-5890
kat.stein@unistudios.com

Lisa Del Colle                        212-413-5421
lisa.delcolle@unistudios.com







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 10

                      Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Bourdais

From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr>
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:22:47 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:27:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Bourdais


>From: Eric Jacobson <ejacobson74@comcast.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 17:40:57 -0400
>Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants'

>>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 09:37:25 +0200
>>Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants'

<snip>

>This is why the pronouncements of Lier et al and of NIDS as
>well, even given that "one metallurgists looked at it and said
>it was very unusual" are totally un-convincing. If Lier, NIDS
>and company were at all interested in sold scientific approach
>they would convene such a panel, turn over their fragments and
>report the outcome. There is no obstacle to their doing this
>other than their disinterest in hearing the results. For my
>money they'd all be recognized as terrestrial objects. The fact
>that neither Lier nor NIDS have done this, and trumpet "results"
>nevertheless, is all the indication we should need of their
>total absence of serious scientific intent.

To Eric and the List

First, again, his name is Leir, not Lier.

Secondly, you misquote me. The metallurgist that I know examined
the chemical composition of the metallic fragment, not just
"looked at it". This composition was determined in a competent
laboratory, New Mexico Tech.

That is is scientific research.

What is unscientific, in my opinion, is to reject the findings
and decide that there is nothing there.


Regards,

Gildas Bourdais








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 10

                           South Montreal Sighting

From: Brian Vike - HBCC-UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:19:02 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 14:29:56 -0400
Subject: South Montreal Sighting


Howdy List

Here you go, and while I was typing this out, in came another
sighting for Alberta. The sighting took place in 1979 Wabasca,
Alberta. I will go through it to make sure personal information
is removed and will post. This is a large report.


South Montreal,Verdun Quebec

Date:  July 7, 2003
Time:  10:30 p.m.
Toll Free Hotline

I received a telephone call on the UFO Hotline this morning from
a gentleman who resides in Verdun, Quebec. Before he went on to
tell me his story of what he witnessed, he first wanted to make
it clear by telling me that he is a well grounded fellow. On the
odd occasion when with a group of friends someone might bring up
the idea of UFO, or that they may have observed one. The witness
told me he would walk away and talk to some else, not believing
there are unusual flying crafts out there. In other words very
skeptical about the whole issue.

The man now explains to me that he has been re-thinking the
whole idea after what he saw, which was very strange indeed.

On July 7, 2003 at 10:30 p.m. the witness took his dog out for a
walk last Monday evening. He reached the corner of the street he
resides on, heading towards the park which is across the street.
Running diagonally from the witness, just above the streetlight
poles at approximately 40 to 50 feet high the witness described
seeing a Smokey gray colored object traveling slow over top of
one of the homes in the area. He went on to say he had a good
look at it due to it traveling slowly. The fellow described it
as being approximately 25 feet in length with the head of it
being wider than the tail and traveling maybe 10 miles per hour.
The fellow also mentioned that it was not a bird, because he had
such a good view of it as the sighting lasted for approximately
5 to 7 seconds. The witness said if he could sense anything
about the object was that it had a slight whirling sound coming
from it. (HBCC UFO Note: When I heard about the sound in which I
object was making, I then asked if his dog took any notice of
it, he said no). He went on to say he couldn't be 100 per cent
sure the sound was coming from it due to the sound being so
faint, but he was pretty sure. This sighting, he said stopped
him dead in his tracks. The fellow mentioned that normally on
his street folks sit out late when it is really nice out, but
this evening of the sighting he said it was oddly quiet. The
witness said, what I saw "I could not explain".

I would like to thank the witness for reporting their sighting
to HBCC UFO.


Brian Vike

Director
HBCC UFO Research
Canadian Toll Free UFO Hotline 1 866 262 1989 - Free call.
Editor: Canadian Communicator - Paranormal Magazine
email: hbccufo@telus.net
Website: http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/hbcc_ufo_research.htm






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 11

                     FOIA Appeal US Army General Counsel

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net>
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 16:02:11 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 14:40:51 -0400
Subject: FOIA Appeal US Army General Counsel


To: <ali.wyro@us.army.mil>


TO:   Hon. Steven J. Morello, Esq.
      General Counsel
      U. S. Department of the Army
      The Pentagon
      Washington, DC 20310

FROM: Larry W. Bryant
      3518 Martha Custis Drive
      Alexandria, VA 22302

DATE: July 10, 2003

When I sent my June 13, 2003, FOIA request to the public affairs
officer of Fort Myer, Va., I presumed its recipient would
fulfill it merely by asking the Pentagram's publisher (Myer's
public affairs office) to produce a copy of the Pentagram's
current printing contract, for eventual relay to me. Based on my
extensive FOIA-request experience, I also presumed that Myer's
production of the requested 18-page document would entail such
minimal government expense as to fall beneath the FOIA-
processing fees-assessment threshold observed by most federal
agencies.

Instead, by her letter to me of July 2, 2003 (quoted below),
Myer FOIA officer Shirley Kinson-Jones attempts to levy the
exorbitant fee of $43.20. In doing so, she causes even the
casual observer to wonder whether her ill-advised action derives
(1) from gross inexperience with the Army's FOIA
policy/practices, or (2) from her compliance with some higher-
up's instructions to impose these unjustified fees as a means
for retaliating against and/or discouraging my FOIA usage.

At any rate, I hereby appeal her action as being harmful to my
entitlement to a waiver of all processing fees incident to her
fulfilling my request. I base this appeal on the following
multipoint rationale:

(1) Ms. Kinson-Jones' bad-faith failure to afford me advance
notice of her intention to impose the fees at issue.

(2) My requester status as an independent UFO journalist (now
recently acknowledged by FOIA officials at the U. S. Department
of State) -- as reflected by a series of UFO-related "issues
ads" printed in the Pentagram during the past 15 years.

(3) My public-interest role as a First Amendment scholar -- as
augmented by my forthcoming anti-censorship litigation against
Myer commander Col. Essig and Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld.
Accordingly, you should grant my fee-waiver request forthwith
because disclosure of the Pentagram's printing contract is
helping me inform the public about the Pentagram's
unconstitutional banning of my recently submitted issues ad
"Blow the Whistle on Bush's 'Gulf of Persia' Resolution!"

Please understand that this FOIA appeal letter carries a
concomitant purpose: i.e., serving formal notice upon you, Col.
Essig, and Mr. Rumsfeld that I'm in the process of retaining an
attorney for the above-cited litigation.

By snail-mail, I'm sending to you a signed printout of this e-
formatted letter.



LARRY W. BRYANT
Columnist for the Internet Website of
http://www.ufocity.com

Copies furnished to:

Col. Essig

DOD General Counsel (Mr. Haynes)

Peter A. Robbins, Editor-in-Chief, ufocity.com

Chairman, Committee on Government Reform (Subcommittee on
Technology, Information Policy, Etc.) -- U. S. House of
Representatives

Chairman, Committee on Intelligence -- U. S. House of
Representatives

Lewis Kannon

TEXT OF MS. KINSON-JONES' LETTER TO L.W.B. (July 2, 2003):

Dear Mr. Bryant:

This letter is in response to your Freedom of Information Act
request for a copy of the current commercial contract governing
the publication, printing, and distribution of the Fort Myer
Military Community weekly newspaper.

In accordance with the Department of the Freedom of Information
Act [sic], the requester must indicate a willingness to pay for
the requested records. In the future you must indicate a
willingness to pay.

Enclosed you will find 18 pages of the requested records. Upon
receipt of the records, please forward a certified check or
money order in the amount of $43.20 (Clerical hrs $3.00,
Professional hrs $37.50, copies $2.70) to cover associated fees.
Send payment to Headquarter [sic], US Army Garrison, Deputy
Directorate of Information Management, Freedom of Information
Office, 204 Lee Ave, Bldg 205, Fort Myer, VA 22211. Should you
have further questions or concerns please contact me at (703)
696-7096.

Sincerely,


SHIRLEY KINSON-JONES

Freedom of Information/Privacy Act Officer







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 11

               Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens -

From: Dan Bright <dan@zaziork.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 22:20:54 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 14:42:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens -


>From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 00:27:18 +0100
>Subject: Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens

>My statement concerning there being no question of RAF aircraft
>being ordered to shoot down UFOs was based not on a specific
>recollection of a particular document, but on my more general
>knowledge of Rules of Engagement (ROE) and Standard Operating
>Procedure (SOP). These aren't (as Jan Aldrich recognised in a
>separate post) areas that I can talk about, for obvious reasons.

Nick,

Am I correct in my understanding that at present, in order to
destroy any 'enemy target' in UK airspace, the chain of command
would require prime ministerial authorisation? As I understand
it, this would involve a four-stage process, using the emergency
communications systems. The chain of command is: Air Chief
Marshal -- Secretary of State for Defence -- Chief of the
Defence Staff -- Prime Minister. This information is publicly
available (one example being the publication of such in the
London Times, September 29, 2001).

Are you able to confirm whether this policy was in operation
during 1956?


Regards,

Dan Bright
--
dan@theunexplained.info
www.theunexplained.info







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 11

                    Re: What Is Real In Ufology - Hebert

From: Amy Hebert <amyhebert@sbcglobal.net>
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:58:52 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 14:43:41 -0400
Subject: Re: What Is Real In Ufology - Hebert


>From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 00:09:14 +0100
>Subject: Re: What Is Real In Ufology

>>From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com>
>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 13:23:01 -0500
>>Subject: Re: What Is Real In Ufology

>I think that we actually agree on quite a lot of the topic in
>hand, that the following are generally accepted within ufology
>as "real":

>1. The people
>2. The stimuli

<snip>

Mmmm, Joe, I'm not sure anything should be generally accepted as
'real', _especially_ when it comes to the study of UFO's.

In reference to the people being 'real', that's a pretty broad
statement and too general to be accurate.

In reference to 'the stimuli' being real, that is open to debate
as well.

I have found the study of UFO's to be much more detailed and
complex than just what was seen and who saw it. People do not
always tell the truth nor do all people perceive the same
'truths'. Some people see UFO's in every blob, spot or blur they
find in photographs or over their house while others see UFO's
in ancient art, the bible and jet contrails. Some people see the
lights of a jetliner at night and call it a "UFO" or "flying
triangle" while others see UFO's in NASA images from space and
from Mars. Are we to assume every person who says they saw a UFO
actually saw a 'real' UFO? Are all UFO sighting reports to be
considered "real"?

The stimuli... what may look like a UFO to one person may not
stimulate the same response in another. I've been at skywatches
where people jumped up and down pointing to a "UFO" when it was
clearly just an airplane. Stimulus-response patterns vary from
individual to individual and are relative to how one defines the
stimuli involved as well as how each stimulus is perceived by
the individual.

For example, in 1997, I saw a UFO camouflaged as the moon while
others, out and about that night, perceived only a crescent moon
suspended in the sky. The stimulus that turned the 'moon' into a
UFO for me was when it "eclipsed" - twice - in less than 2-3
minutes then disappeared. If only two other people perceived the
same stimuli as I, does that make it 'real' for us and not
'real' for others or should it be considered the moon because
that was the stimulus perceived by most who saw it that night?

Perceptions of reality and stimuli vary from one person to the
next just as what's 'real' and not real is subject to each
person's interpretation.


A. Hebert







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 11

                   Re: STS-48 Time Tags Explained - Oberg

From: James Oberg <jamesoberg@houston.rr.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:53:49 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 14:47:06 -0400
Subject: Re: STS-48 Time Tags Explained - Oberg


>From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 22:13:46 -0500
>Subject: Re: STS-48 Time Tags Explained


>But it's quite obvious that [image analysis]it's not the
>specialty of Mr. Oberg or his anonymous specialists, either. At
>least I've demonstrated some facility in that discipline. Mr.
>Oberg's specialists, whatever it is they specialize in, have
>demonstrated none.

I should point out a misinterpretation of `anonymous' here - it
means a person who withholds his name. None of my consulted
experts I've been referring to withheld their names from me, not
one was ever `anonymous'. I knew many from years of joint work,
and others through reputation and record. I then withheld SOME
of their names until I receive their permission - and since the
prospect of being harassed by somebody who has convinced himself
that they are incompetents and falsifiers is not anticipated as
a great pleasure, some have not given that permission.

So these specialists are NOT `anonymous', nor even in many cases
unnamed - in these exchanges I've quoted by name from works of
INCO's Castle and Moolchan, from people present during STS-48
(Jim Bates, and myself), from certified MCC FDO's such as Dan
Adamo and respected amateur satellite trackers such as Ted
Molczan, from STS-48 crewmen Brown and Reightler, from MLE
principle investigator Otha Vaughan, and so forth - all men who
have documented specializations in directly relevant areas of
expertise, and whose names I gave.

This apparently remains a totally alien conception to Mr.
Fleming and to his style of `investigation'.

>It's truly amazing how casually Mr. Oberg contradicts his OWN
>stated opinion - see:

>So Oberg first said (incorrectly) that the flare was at the
>bottom of the image. Now he comes up with a glib rationale for
>why it's actually at the top of the image, where I correctly
>placed it. If Oberg so easily disregards his own previous
>writings, why should anyone else take anything he says
>seriously?

Again, an alien concept to Fleming - being challenged on a
question of fact, going back and rechecking, and deciding the
challenge was correct and the allegation of fact must be
modified to be more in accord with evidence. You'll never catch
FLEMING doing any such trickery, fer shoor! <grin>


   --  Jim Oberg







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 11

                    Re: Jarrold & 'Liquidation Of The UFO

From: Bill Chalker <bill_c@bigpond.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:21:23 +1000
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 14:49:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Jarrold & 'Liquidation Of The UFO


>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto ><ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:05:18 -0400
>Subject: 'Liquidation Of The UFO Investigators'? Article

Yeah right!

I recollect when this article came out I thought it was rubbish,
and I certainly feel the same way today.

Just for the sake of facts, the article lists:

"Edgar Jarrold, 1960. Australian UFOlogist who vanished
mysteriously."

Well he wasn't liquidated! While he became elusive he certainly
didn't disappear.  He became fodder for Gray Barker's "MIB
potboiler" - "They knew too much about flying saucers". It is
pretty clear from correspondence I've seen that Gray Barker knew
that more prosaic factors were at work, but hey why let the
facts get in the way of a good story.

Jarrold left the "flying saucer" scene in the mid 1950s - 1954-
55 - In mid 1955 when he was by all accounts departed from the
scene, a feature article in the Australian "People" magazine
headlined The Australian Flying Saucer Bureau believes MARTIANS
MAY LAND HERE NEXT YEAR and focusing on Jarrold, confirmed that
despite all the other intrigues that had diverted him up until
then, Edgar Jarrold was still enamoured by his Martian theory -
 a theory that he had entertained since 1952.<?xml:namespace
prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> He
resurfaced briefly in the early seventies to titillate some
researchers of that period, and passed away in the late 70s or
early 80s I think. The 1960 reference in the Binder piece was
related to a total "beat up" about a probable prosaic incident
on a department store esculator. If it was "liquidation" "they"
were after, the "liquidators" were about as reliable as the
article - nil.

Regards from "down under", not looking over my shoulder in fear,


Bill Chalker







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 11

                      Popular Mechanics Roswell Article

From: Bruce Hutchinson <bhutch@grassyhill.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 00:02:49 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 14:50:19 -0400
Subject: Popular Mechanics Roswell Article


Listerians and Readers;

Jim Wilson, the Science Editor for Popular Mechanics who wrote
the June article on Roswell, was interviewed on The Todd Mundt
Show (a NPR talk show) today.

If you missed this, there is an archive of this show at

http://www.toddshow.org

The URL for this particular broadcast is

http://www.toddshow.org/ram/tmshow0710.ram


Regards,

Bruce Hutchinson







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 11

                    Re: Rendlesham UFO 'Hoax' - McGonagle

From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk>
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:29:33 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:21:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Rendlesham UFO 'Hoax' - McGonagle


>From: Gary Stedman <Gary.Stedman@btopenworld.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:57:57 +0100
>Subject: Re: Rendlesham UFO 'Hoax'

<snip>

>The so called 'nuclear weapons area' at Bentwaters has cropped
>up many times in this case. While it goes without saying that
>this area exists (Ms. Bruni's book covers this in detail and
>locals were aware of its location). I wonder if anybody's
>investigation has uncovered as to what would have been held in
>this area at the time of the incident, or even if anything
>actually was. The reason I suggest this is that aviation units
>operating out of the twin bases at that time where not nuclear
>capable (81st TFW and 67th ARRS).

Due to specific experiences during my military service, I
strongly doubt that Nuclear weapons were held at Bentwaters or
Woodbridge. The reasons for this relate to the physical security
of the storage sites and this is why I don't want to circulate
the details in a public forum given the current terrorist
situation, but I have provided Gary with the details off-list. I
am willing to provide details off-list to individuals with a
genuine interest.


Regards, Joe





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 11

              Re: Conventioneers Share Alien Theories - Gevaerd

From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:02:32 -0300
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:26:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Conventioneers Share Alien Theories - Gevaerd


>From: Charlette LeFevre <clefevre@oz.net>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 13:27:54 -0700 (MST)
>Subject: Re: Conventioneers Share Alien Theories

>>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:52:59 -0300
>>Subject: Re: Conventioneers Share Alien Theories

>>>From: Charlette LeFevre <clefevre@oz.net>
>>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 01:08:31 -0700 (MST)
>>>Subject: Re: Conventioneers Share Alien Theories

>>>>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com>
>>>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>>Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 21:57:31 -0300
>>>>Subject: Re: Conventioneers Share Alien Theories

>><snip>

>>>>Here is the letter I faxed the Detroit Free Press and emailed to Zlati
>>>>Meyer

>>>>FAX 1-313-222-6774
>>>>Letters to the Editor
>>>>Detroit Free Press

>>>>Dear Editor:                   July 8, 2003

>>>>As a nuclear physicist who spoke at the MUFON Symposium in
>>>>Dearborn, I am writing to correct several false claims in ZLATI
>>>>MEYER's article in the July 7, 2003, FP(5B):

><snip>

>>>I believe the journalist mentions specifically the absence of
>>>Ph.Ds presenting in which case your first comment supports Zlati
>>>Meyer's observance and even so she still makes her point of the
>>>disparity of MUFON's boasts and what it actually presents.

<snip>

Folks.

Just to add a word to this, I would say that the _majority_ of
the most productive and acurate UFO researchers I've met in 3
dozen countries are _not_ Masters, Doctors or Ph.Ds.

Actually, some of the best UFO researchers I've met are not even
graduates. These people are field investigators spread all over
Brazil, who humbly but very efficiently collect the data to be
analyzed.

I believe it doesn't require a degree to be a good researcher.

A. J.







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 11

                     Circles The Work Of Fairfield Teens

From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 06:16:33 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:29:43 -0400
Subject: Circles The Work Of Fairfield Teens


Source: The Times-Herald -  Vallejo, California

http://www.timesheraldonline.com/articles/2003/07/11/news/news03.txt

Friday July 11, 2003

Circles the work of Fairfield teens

By Catherine Moy
The Reporter, Vacaville

Four Fairfield teenagers claim they created the mysterious crop
circles that popped up in a Rockville Road wheat field in June,
drawing thousands of curious onlookers and nationwide media
attention.

The four agreed to tell their story on condition their
identities be withheld.

The young men - three 17-year-olds and one 18 - claim they spent
the wee hours of June 28 pressing Larry Balestra's wheat field
with boards connected to a rope. They had watched a television
documentary the previous Friday about crop circles and decided
to do it, just to while away summer boredom while showing off
their creative sides.

"We don't like when people try putting teenagers down," said
John, 17.

They said they tried confessing several times to different
visitors to the site, but no one would believe them. To prove
their role, the teens took a reporter to a set of circles that
they say they created in a wheat field off Cordelia Road. No
reports had been published on that second set of circles.

"This is where we practiced for the other ones," said George,
18.

Three of the boys are on probation for crimes relating to theft.
All of their parents know they made the circles. One of their
mothers even bought the movie "Signs" to celebrate their feat.

But their probation officers wouldn't be too happy, they said,
especially because the hoax destroyed about $500 worth of the
farmer's wheat fields. And Solano County Sheriff Gary Stanton
has made it clear that he views the act as vandalism and
trespassing. He said, however, that he has not received a
complaint and without one, will not pursue an investigation. The
teens don't feel like they've done much harm to the farmer,
however.

"He's making loads of cash at his vegetable stand because of
them," said Jack, 17.

The Balestra family, however, said this year's profits have been
no different than last year. However, they were making plans to
start selling $12 alien T-shirts today.

Balestra said Thursday he would never press charges in the
matter.

Although he made skeptical statements to the press about alien
involvement after the circles first cropped up, he was actually
a little bit melancholy to hear the teens' claims.

"It's sad, because this made so many people happy."

He said he will harvest wheat from fields around the circles,
but will leave the circles intact for people to enjoy.

The design of the new set of circles revealed by the teens
includes one large and one small circle connected by a narrow
path. It is in another wheat field near Anheuser Busch. The
property owners allowed access, but didn't realize the circles
existed.

"We shortened the rope on this one," explained George, as he
stood in the smaller of the two circles Wednesday.

Since they left Balestra's fields with 14 connecting circles
that have drawn UFO believers, extraterrestrial specialists,
healers, psychics and gawkers, the young men have returned to
the scene scores of times. They said they like watching the
reactions of those wandering in the circles.

"We've told people that we did it, but they don't want to
believe (us)," said George. A man pumping gas at the Rockville
Road's Tower gas station snubbed the teens when they confessed
to him. Gerry Narito, a former juvenile hall counselor, was
passing through when she met the boys.

"They were having conversations with people" at the gas station,
Narito said. "They said they did it. One guy told them, 'You
don't look intelligent enough to do it.'"

Narito, however, was convinced after listening to their story.

On Tuesday, the boys spent more than an hour explaining to a
reporter how they pulled off the stunt.

Jack even went home and retrieved a wrinkled paper on which he
had drawn a diagram of the crop circles. A second copy
apparently went through the wash in John's pants.

The teens said they began their task by gathering the tools: A
couple boards, a 30-foot ski rope, scraps of other rope and a
roll of blue tape. Larry's wife, Lisa Balestra, confirmed late
Thursday that pieces of blue tape were found in the circles - a
fact never publicized.

The largest circles have 60-foot diameters, twice as long as the
ski rope.

"Man, we had to rest sometimes," said John, "My back got tired
and I laid down in the field."

They initially walked to the wheat field on a path between the
wheat and a safflower field, so they wouldn't leave footprints.
They jumped into the wheat and began work on their pattern.

One teen stood in the center of the circle, holding the ski rope
borrowed from one of the parents. Another would hold on to the
other end of the rope to ensure they made a decent circle. Then
they pressed down the wheat with the planks of wood connected to
a small rope, which served as a handle.

The moon was bright that night, providing plenty of light. As
for reports of mysterious lights in the field, the teens say it
was their cell phones. They called numerous friends to come out
and take a look, but no one came. Since their story started
making headlines, they collected every newspaper and watched
every telecast on the topic, enjoying every minute of the
attention.

One of their brothers even called from out of state to say he'd
seen the story.

They've also enjoyed the people who have made pilgrimages to the
circles, especially those who believe aliens made the
formations. And they don't belittle any of the believers.

"One lady said she cured her back pain by rubbing the wheat on
her back," George said. "If it does that, we'll make more
circles for them."

But not all the believers who flocked to the circles have come
away believing aliens left their mark. One Albany woman, who
told a reporter she is a reincarnated alien, said Thursday the
circles just didn't do it for her.

"I was in one group of aliens in a past life, so I think I'd
know," said Pat Segrestan. "The design is beautiful, but I don't
get any special feelings from it."

Paul Imlah of Fairfield and a friend said they didn't think the
circles were alien creations either.

"Unless the aliens are using rope."

The teens have researched the crop circle phenomenon since June
28, and George has seen crop circles on TV that he believes no
human could make. Yes, he believes in extraterrestrial life.

Crop circles were first reported in England during the 1600s.
Some 250 appear annually in different sites on the globe. Self-
described experts study them, believers meditate at them, and
skeptics giggle at them. In the past two weeks, four crop circle
patterns have appeared in Solano County alone. The teens take no
credit for a smaller circle found near Solano Community College,
nor the Vacaville circle, which looks like a squashed bug
replete with antennae in a corn field at Leisure Town and Fry
Roads.

"That one is funny. What did that pilot say? 'It must have been
a drunk alien,'" John said.

The foursome would be glad to demonstrate their skills of circle
making - if the law wouldn't bust them for it.

"We just did it for fun - to see if we could do it," George
said.







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 11

                   First Mobile UFO Museum Comes To Izmir?

From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 06:28:33 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:31:50 -0400
Subject: First Mobile UFO Museum Comes To Izmir?


I found this small blurb at:

http://www.turkishpress.com/turkishpress/news.asp?ID=11625

Anyone have more info?


First Mobile Ufo Museum Comes To Izmir

The first mobile UFO museum of the world has come to Izmir as
part of a tour including 55 provinces and districts throughout
Turkey. The museum was established by the Sirius UFO Space
Sciences Research Center.

Terry Groff
http://terrygroff.com/ufotools/

ICQ:18292278
AIM: cupojava11
MSN: cupojava1







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 11

               Mysterious Disappearances In Pampa Union Chile

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:29:15 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:36:09 -0400
Subject: Mysterious Disappearances In Pampa Union Chile


Source: La Estrella del Loa (newspaper)
Date: July 10, 2003

Chile: Mysterious Disappearances in Pampa Union

Human beings appear to be left "out in the cold" whenever reason
cannot explain events that are not self-explanatory. This is the
effect that Pampa Union has had on many visitors and even those
who having been to the site, perhaps prefer to forget about it.
The events and enigmas contained in this ancient campsite are
legion, as can be attested from the numerous phone calls to our
newsroom.

One of the most chilling and still-unsolved ones was experienced
by Nora Suarez when she spent a day in this settlement in the
company of her sister Mireya and their relatives. In the blink
of an eye, Mireya walked away from the family group, causing
concern among them and prompting them to search for her. Despite
their best efforts, Mireya was never seen again among the ruined
walls of Pampa Union. Her mysterious disapperance is an unsolved
mystery that has many incredible details. The case reached the
law courts, before which any and all who might have something to
say about the matter were summoned to appear. However, all those
called by the court to testify in the girl's disappearance died
under unexplained circumstances without ever telling their
stories.

The family has made heroic efforts to unravel the bizarre
situation that has remained unsolved for so many years. Nora
Suarez has even appealed to Carabineros (state police) and
television broadcasters in the search for her missing sister.

There exists the theory that she may have vanished in Bolivia,
but not even this hypothesis has aided the efforts to find the
whereabouts of that girl - today a woman - who vanished forever
in Pampa Union.

The Story of Pampa Union

Pampa Union was a camp that provided support to the various
nitrate companies located between Calama and Antofagasta,
reaching its heyday in the first half of last century. It was a
site which rose and dwindled along with the fortunes of the
nitrate workers. Old residents of Sierra Gorda, a town some
kilometers away from Pampa Union, say that it was a settlement
"without God or law." This fact led to many deaths and events
which in the light of history and paranormal research, left each
corner of the town "charged".

It is for this reason that many of the accounts that have
reached our newsroom concern strange apparitions, wagons bearing
ghostly characters who carry out their daily affairs as though
time had stopped in another dimension. The happy days of Pampa
Union are long gone, but among its ruins the wind seems to
emulate the whispers of a vital and important town, an oasis in
the desert.

One of the accounts received by our newsroom was that of Gustavo
Rojas. He said that he had undergone a chilling experience some
time ago as he drove through Pampa Union, keeping it to himself
until now. He says the time was roughly 1 a.m. as he drove
through the ruins. He saw a man dressed in black, wearing a top
hat and wielding a walking stick, very much in the style fo the
early years of the last century. He seemed to be waiting for
someone to pick him up. Concerned, Rojas slowed down to help
him, but when looking through his rear-view mirror, he noticed
the man was gone. The driver returned to Calama bathed in a
cold sweat and gripped by fear, a typical reaction among those
who have had experiences of this nature.

===============

Translation (C) 2003 Scott Corrales
Institute of Hispanic Ufology (IHU)
Special thanks to Gloria Coluchi












   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 11

                   Brazilian Ufologists Electronic Agenda

From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 14:42:22 -0300
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:42:20 -0400
Subject: Brazilian Ufologists Electronic Agenda


Dear Friends

If you need to contact anyone in the Brazilian Ufological
Community, e-mail addresses are posted at:

http://www.ufologosbrasileiros.blogger.com.br

http://ufologosbrasileiros.blogspot.com






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 11

                                 Greg Long?

From: Bill Stockstill <size14d@bigfoot.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:16:15 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:49:50 -0400
Subject: Greg Long?


Hi Everyone:

Does anyone know whatever happened to paranormal investigator
Greg Long? His Northwest Mysteries website was one of the most
interesting sites I have come across in the 8 years I have been
surfing the Net. That site had some wonderful investigative
stories and its a shame it isn't at least archived somewhere. I
was especially intrigued by the UFO audio clip he had that was
recorded from a police radio during an encounter where several
police officers were watching a UFO over, I believe, the
Columbia River.

I'd gladly donate the 30MB of webspace my ISP gives me to put
his work back on the Net.

If anyone knows a way to contact him, please email me:

size14d@bigfoot.com

Thanks,

Bill Stockstill







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 11

                         Earthlings A Threat To ETs?

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 16:03:11 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 18:49:01 -0400
Subject: Earthlings A Threat To ETs?


Earthlings - A Space Faring Civilization And Threat To ETs?

Hi Everyone!

Stan Friedman is correct when he said our ET neighbours in
space, if they are indeed out there, would be very concerned
about us Earthlings, a primitive society whose major activity
Stan well describes as tribal warfare. Our activities would
certainly be closely monitored by our ET neighbors, especially
since we are a growing potential threat to them by having
developed nuclear weapons and continue our manned space
activities with the ultimate goal of colonizing other worlds and
eventually becoming a multiple planet species.

One very real problem for our manned space plans is not
necessarily from ETs but from the rapid movement towards the
militarization of space by the U.S. and other world powers. If
space is where some of the battles of the 21st century will be
fought, the greatly increased amount of debris from exploded
spacecraft, etc., orbiting the Earth would present such a
serious hazard to human activity in space that our manned space
programs would be forced to come to an abrupt end for at least
our generation.

The SPACE.com article below for today is about a space-based
missile interceptor system that is one part of many plans for
the militarization of space. Fortunately, the delay in
developing this system will buy us some time to reconsider the
need for it. Unless there is indeed a threat to us by ETs as
alluded to by former Canadian Prime Minister Lester Pearson, in
his Nobel Peace Prize speech, and again later by U.S. Presidient
Ronald Reagan in his speech at the United Nations, then how can
one justify the need for space-based interceptors?

http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/missile_defense_030711.html


Nick Balaskas







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 11

                     Re: Rendlesham UFO 'Hoax' - Rudiak

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:51:53 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 18:51:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Rendlesham UFO 'Hoax' - Rudiak


>From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk>
>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 16:46:49 +0100
>Subject: Rendlesham UFO 'Hoax'

>For those of you interested in the Rendlesham Forest incident,
>known in the USA as The Bentwater's UFO Case, I have some
>interesting updates. But first I would like to address the
>testimony of practical joker Kevin Conde.

The Rendlesham case frequently pops up for discussion here on
the List. I know that in the past my ability to comprehend the
events was hampered by a lack of good maps and pictures to help
me visualize what had happened.

I was in England in March 2002 and made a point of going out to
the base and walking the Rendlesham forest area east of the base
where the events occurred.

Before going to the base, I got a good map in nearby Woodbridge
town (plus Georgina Bruni's just published book on the case,
"You Can't Tell the People"). I've put scans from this map plus
photos from my walk up on my website:

http://www.roswellproof.com/Rendlesham_pictorial.html

I've included a brief synopsis of the case and some discussion
of the infamous lighthouse explanation. As you will be able to
see from the photos, there is no way that the lighthouse could
be seen directly from the base or along the roads leading out to
the main area, a farm field clearing, or even in most areas of
the clearing. What drew the airmen out there to begin with --
 an invisible lighthouse beam dropping from the sky?

Now we have the latest "flavor-of-the-month" debunking
explanation - some guy in a beat up car with colored lights on
it. Yep, that must have been it.


David







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 11

                     Re: What Is Real In Ufology - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:17:29 -0300
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 18:54:53 -0400
Subject: Re: What Is Real In Ufology - Velez


>From: Amy Hebert <amyhebert@sbcglobal.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:58:52 -0500
>Subject: Re: What Is Real In Ufology

>>From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 00:09:14 +0100
>>Subject: Re: What Is Real In Ufology

>>>From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com>
>>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>>Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 13:23:01 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: What Is Real In Ufology

>>I think that we actually agree on quite a lot of the topic in
>>hand, that the following are generally accepted within ufology
>>as "real":

>>1. The people
>>2. The stimuli

><snip>

>Mmmm, Joe, I'm not sure anything should be generally accepted as
>'real', _especially_ when it comes to the study of UFO's.

>In reference to the people being 'real', that's a pretty broad
>statement and too general to be accurate.

>In reference to 'the stimuli' being real, that is open to debate
>as well.

>I have found the study of UFO's to be much more detailed and
>complex than just what was seen and who saw it. People do not
>always tell the truth nor do all people perceive the same
>'truths'. Some people see UFO's in every blob, spot or blur they
>find in photographs or over their house while others see UFO's
>in ancient art, the bible and jet contrails. Some people see the
>lights of a jetliner at night and call it a "UFO" or "flying
>triangle" while others see UFO's in NASA images from space and
>from Mars. Are we to assume every person who says they saw a UFO
>actually saw a 'real' UFO? Are all UFO sighting reports to be
>considered "real"?

>The stimuli... what may look like a UFO to one person may not
>stimulate the same response in another. I've been at skywatches
>where people jumped up and down pointing to a "UFO" when it was
>clearly just an airplane. Stimulus-response patterns vary from
>individual to individual and are relative to how one defines the
>stimuli involved as well as how each stimulus is perceived by
>the individual.

>For example, in 1997, I saw a UFO camouflaged as the moon while
>others, out and about that night, perceived only a crescent moon
>suspended in the sky. The stimulus that turned the 'moon' into a
>UFO for me was when it "eclipsed" - twice - in less than 2-3
>minutes then disappeared. If only two other people perceived the
>same stimuli as I, does that make it 'real' for us and not
>'real' for others or should it be considered the moon because
>that was the stimulus perceived by most who saw it that night?

Hello All,

Amy wrote:

>Perceptions of reality and stimuli vary from one person to the
>next just as what's 'real' and not real is subject to each
>person's interpretation.

I can hear it now... 'Why Ms. Smith, no crime was committed by
my client at all. It's only your interpretation of reality that
allows you to 'believe' you were raped.'

According to your 'theory', maybe we should do away with all eye
witness testimony altogether. I Suppose if you can find a way to
dismiss or eliminate all those pesky eyewitnesses, then there
wouldn't be a 'UFO' phenomenon at all - and you wouldn't have to
worry your head over it.

What a convenient, if not one-sided, set of beliefs. "Everybody
else is full of it." Yeah, that works. :)

Thank goodness the members of the judicial branch of government
don't agree with you. We'd have one hell of a legal system
without the testimony of credible eye witnesses. Or is it that
you think that only witnesses reporting sightings of UFOs are
not to be trusted.


Regards to all,

John Velez






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 11

                         Re: Re: Greg Long? - Lewis

From: Stephen MILES Lewis <ufoupdates@elfis.net>
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:16:55 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 19:06:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Re: Greg Long? - Lewis


>From: Bill Stockstill <size14d@bigfoot.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:16:15 -0400
>Subject: Greg Long?

>Does anyone know whatever happened to paranormal investigator
>Greg Long? His Northwest Mysteries website was one of the most
>interesting sites I have come across in the 8 years I have been
>surfing the Net. That site had some wonderful investigative
>stories and its a shame it isn't at least archived somewhere. I
>was especially intrigued by the UFO audio clip he had that was
>recorded from a police radio during an encounter where several
>police officers were watching a UFO over, I believe, the
>Columbia River.


I don't know what happened to Greg Long - I too would like to
know as I greatly appreciated his web site and efforts and
book(s?).

>I'd gladly donate the 30MB of webspace my ISP gives me to put
>his work back on the Net.

Donate away... download what you can hear...


SMiles
www.AnomalyArchive.com
www.AnomalyCommunity.com
www.elfis.net






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 11

                          Helicopter & 'Something'?

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:35:32 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 19:10:11 -0400
Subject: Helicopter & 'Something'?


Hi List,

I received this report today, along with the photo to go with
it. Must admit it is very interesting. In the photo it shows a
helicopter (black ?) and a unknown object above it. The photo
can be viewed at my website at:

http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/united_states_ufo_reports.htm

I also uploaded a more new photos of a strange object. And I
have another photo I received today which comes from Berlin. I
will get this uploaded as soon as I can.

-----

South West side of Canyon Lake - between San Antonio and Austin,
Texas

Date:  June 17, 2003
Time:  Approx: 8:00 p.m.


I came across an article discussing your involvement in UFO
research. Well, I'm the kind of person that could go either way
in believing about extraterrestrials visiting earth. I have a
wonderfully vivid and creative imagination and this subject is
very exciting indeed. One afternoon on my way back into Austin,
Texas, with a friend of mine I happened to look in the sky and
noticed a black helicopter going by. This is of interest to me
because I know this fellow who believes in conspiracies and what
not and as a kind of joke I took a photo of the black
helicopter, to light the fire underneath my friends ass so to
speak. (I used a canon powershot S200 digital camera). Anyway
when I got home and downloaded it I noticed a shiny silver metal
object way above the black helicopter. It wasn't until I read
this article "Daylight Photos of UfO's" that I took my very own
picture a little more seriously, I really would like to have
someone outside of my circle of friends and family to see them
and tell me what they think.

I took this picture on the 17 of June this year around 8:00 pm
while traveling down the Devil's backbone (hwy 337 I believe) on
the SouthWest side of Canyon Lake (in between San Antonio and
Austin). It sure does look alot like the ones on the web site. I
did take these pictures from a vehicle and the window was rolled
up, as far as I can tell there was no object on the window
itself to cause this type of reflection and I had no need of a
flash so none was used. post the picture if you'd like but I'd
like to remain anonymous. Write back with your comments if time
permits.

Thanks,

[Personal Information deleted by HBCC UFO]

-----

I would like to extend my thanks to the person you sent in the
photo and story.


Brian Vike

Director
HBCC UFO Research
Canadian Toll Free UFO Hotline 1 866 262 1989 - Free call.
Editor: Canadian Communicator - Paranormal Magazine
email: hbccufo@telus.net
Website: http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/hbcc_ufo_research.htm
http://www.geocities.com/hbccufo/home.html






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 11

             Re: Conventioneers Share Alien Theories - Friedman

From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 19:47:04 -0300
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 19:13:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Conventioneers Share Alien Theories - Friedman


>From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:02:32 -0300
>Subject: Re: Conventioneers Share Alien Theories

>>From: Charlette LeFevre <clefevre@oz.net>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 13:27:54 -0700 (MST)
>>Subject: Re: Conventioneers Share Alien Theories

<snip>

>Folks.

>Just to add a word to this, I would say that the _majority_ of
>the most productive and acurate UFO researchers I've met in 3
>dozen countries are _not_ Masters, Doctors or Ph.Ds.

>Actually, some of the best UFO researchers I've met are not even
>graduates. These people are field investigators spread all over
>Brazil, who humbly but very efficiently collect the data to be
>analyzed.

>I believe it doesn't require a degree to be a good researcher.


Frankly, I think the average police officer is likely to be
better equipped to take witness testimony than the average PhD.

But Charlette doesn't seem to understand that Zlati was flat out
wrong when she said Bruce was the only presenter with an
advanced degree. There were three others. Masters degrees are
advanced degrees. She didn't say he was the only PhD to present,
which would have been true. The Proceedings gave this
information and also listed the consultants.

She was also flat out wrong when she said I talked about
thousands being killed when I said 50 million. She was also
wrong in linking electromagnetic propulsion systems and pseudo
science.

Do I think every presentation was an outstanding one? Of course
not; and I have said so to the organizers, just as I had weeks
earlier commented about the lack of background information about
the speakers in the little program.


Stan Friedman







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 11

                   Re: What Is Real In Ufology - McGonagle

From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk>
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 00:26:01 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 19:34:11 -0400
Subject: Re: What Is Real In Ufology - McGonagle


>From: Amy Hebert <amyhebert@sbcglobal.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:58:52 -0500
>Subject: Re: What Is Real In Ufology

>>From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 00:09:14 +0100
>>Subject: Re: What Is Real In Ufology

>>I think that we actually agree on quite a lot of the topic in
>>hand, that the following are generally accepted within ufology
>>as "real":

>>1. The people
>>2. The stimuli

><snip>
>
>Mmmm, Joe, I'm not sure anything should be generally accepted as
>'real', _especially_ when it comes to the study of UFO's.
>
>In reference to the people being 'real', that's a pretty broad
>statement and too general to be accurate.
>

That is part of my point-once we get down to specific details,
consensus usually dissolves, therefore in looking for consensus
we need to stick to generalities. Once people are introduced into
the topic, they bring with them all of their preconceptions,
predilections,attributes, and faults. Ufology is highly dependent
on people, there is very little in the way of tangible evidence.
No people = no reports.

>In reference to 'the stimuli' being real, that is open to debate
>as well.

No, I think ufologists agree that hoaxes excluded, _something_
persuades someone that they have seen something unusual, whether
it was the moon, an alien spacecraft, mind-control, chemical
imbalance (artificially or naturally induced) in the brain, E-M,
demons from hell, ducks bellies, sleep paralysis, etc. Without
the stimuli (no matter how mundane and discounting hoaxes) there
would not be any reports. In cases that involve the smallest room
for doubt, the exact stimuli is always disputed, eg Rods, Orbs,
ice particles on shuttle missions, etc.and often (though not
always) with quite sincere intentions on both sides of the
debate.
No stimuli = no reports.

>I have found the study of UFO's to be much more detailed and
>complex than just what was seen and who saw it. People do not
>always tell the truth nor do all people perceive the same
>'truths'. Some people see UFO's in every blob, spot or blur they
>find in photographs or over their house while others see UFO's
>in ancient art, the bible and jet contrails. Some people see the
>lights of a jetliner at night and call it a "UFO" or "flying
>triangle" while others see UFO's in NASA images from space and
>from Mars. Are we to assume every person who says they saw a UFO
>actually saw a 'real' UFO? Are all UFO sighting reports to be
>considered "real"?

Certainly not, but UFO _reports_ are generated by people. They
are investigated and commented on by people. At every stage of a
report from initial sighting to final conclusion, those stages
are influenced primarily by people (and not the original
stimulus, after all only the witnesses actually encountered the
stimulus), with all of their strengths and weaknesses.
This is in contrast with, say, Philately, where the stimulus is a
perforated piece of paper which can be tested, duplicated,
directly compared to other pieces of paper, stored, and examined
again a hundred years later. Any analysis is driven by and
focussed on the original stimulus.
Ufology may reach the stage when specific stimuli (eg E-M or
neurological stimuli) are fully understood and can be filtered
out of ufology, but this requires careful, thorough, and
_financed_ study as well as the desire to identify and accept
mundane causes.

>The stimuli... what may look like a UFO to one person may not
>stimulate the same response in another. I've been at skywatches
>where people jumped up and down pointing to a "UFO" when it was
>clearly just an airplane. Stimulus-response patterns vary from
>individual to individual and are relative to how one defines the
>stimuli involved as well as how each stimulus is perceived by
>the individual.

>For example, in 1997, I saw a UFO camouflaged as the moon while
>others, out and about that night, perceived only a crescent moon
>suspended in the sky. The stimulus that turned the 'moon' into a
>UFO for me was when it "eclipsed" - twice - in less than 2-3
>minutes then disappeared. If only two other people perceived the
>same stimuli as I, does that make it 'real' for us and not
>'real' for others or should it be considered the moon because
>that was the stimulus perceived by most who saw it that night?

This is a 'people' factor. It is also important to note that
people change - sceptics become believers, and vice versa. I
once chased Sirius for 200 miles (in the company of a more
experienced ufologist), I don't anticipate making that mistake
again.

>Perceptions of reality and stimuli vary from one person to the
>next just as what's 'real' and not real is subject to each
>person's interpretation.

I think perhaps we are getting confused about what "ufology" is.
I think that Stan may have touched on that point in his post,
and it is something that has been argued about before. Ideally,
I would propose that ufology is the study of unidentified flying
objects, but that would actually be incorrect, it is the study
of _reports_ of UFOs as very few ufologists are in posession of
an UFO which they can actually study. Those reports are made,
investigated and debated by people.


Regards,


Joe







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 11

                   Re: What Is Real In Ufology - McGonagle

From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk>
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 00:36:18 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 19:57:21 -0400
Subject: Re: What Is Real In Ufology - McGonagle


>From: Amy Hebert <amyhebert@sbcglobal.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:58:52 -0500
>Subject: Re: What Is Real In Ufology

>>From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 00:09:14 +0100
>>Subject: Re: What Is Real In Ufology

>>I think that we actually agree on quite a lot of the topic in
>>hand, that the following are generally accepted within ufology
>>as "real":

>>1. The people
>>2. The stimuli

><snip>

>Mmmm, Joe, I'm not sure anything should be generally accepted as
>'real', _especially_ when it comes to the study of UFO's.

>In reference to the people being 'real', that's a pretty broad
>statement and too general to be accurate.

That is part of my point-once we get down to specific details,
consensus usually dissolves, therefore in looking for consensus
we need to stick to generalities. Once people are introduced
into the topic, they bring with them all of their
preconceptions, predilections,attributes, and faults. Ufology is
highly dependent on people, there is very little in the way of
tangible evidence.

No people = no reports.

>In reference to 'the stimuli' being real, that is open to debate
>as well.

No, I think ufologists agree that hoaxes excluded, _something_
persuades someone that they have seen something unusual, whether
it was the moon, an alien spacecraft, mind-control, chemical
imbalance (artificially or naturally induced) in the brain, E-M,
demons from hell, ducks bellies, sleep paralysis, etc. Without
the stimuli (no matter how mundane and discounting hoaxes) there
would not be any reports. In cases that involve the smallest
room for doubt, the exact stimuli is always disputed, eg Rods,
Orbs, ice particles on shuttle missions, etc.and often (though
not always) with quite sincere intentions on both sides of the
debate.

No stimuli = no reports.

>I have found the study of UFO's to be much more detailed and
>complex than just what was seen and who saw it. People do not
>always tell the truth nor do all people perceive the same
>'truths'. Some people see UFO's in every blob, spot or blur they
>find in photographs or over their house while others see UFO's
>in ancient art, the bible and jet contrails. Some people see the
>lights of a jetliner at night and call it a "UFO" or "flying
>triangle" while others see UFO's in NASA images from space and
>from Mars. Are we to assume every person who says they saw a UFO
>actually saw a 'real' UFO? Are all UFO sighting reports to be
>considered "real"?

Certainly not, but UFO _reports_ are generated by people. They
are investigated and commented on by people. At every stage of a
report from initial sighting to final conclusion, those stages
are influenced primarily by people (and not the original
stimulus, after all only the witnesses actually encountered the
stimulus), with all of their strengths and weaknesses.

This is in contrast with, say, philately, where the stimulus is
a perforated piece of paper which can be tested, duplicated,
directly compared to other pieces of paper, stored, and examined
again a hundred years later. Any analysis is driven by and
focussed on the original stimulus.

Ufology may reach the stage when specific stimuli (eg E-M or
neurological stimuli) are fully understood and can be filtered
out of ufology, but this requires careful, thorough, and
_financed_ study as well as the desire to identify and accept
mundane causes.

>The stimuli... what may look like a UFO to one person may not
>stimulate the same response in another. I've been at skywatches
>where people jumped up and down pointing to a "UFO" when it was
>clearly just an airplane. Stimulus-response patterns vary from
>individual to individual and are relative to how one defines the
>stimuli involved as well as how each stimulus is perceived by
>the individual.

>For example, in 1997, I saw a UFO camouflaged as the moon while
>others, out and about that night, perceived only a crescent moon
>suspended in the sky. The stimulus that turned the 'moon' into a
>UFO for me was when it "eclipsed" - twice - in less than 2-3
>minutes then disappeared. If only two other people perceived the
>same stimuli as I, does that make it 'real' for us and not
>'real' for others or should it be considered the moon because
>that was the stimulus perceived by most who saw it that night?

This is a 'people' factor. It is also important to note that
people change - sceptics become believers, and vice versa. I
once chased Sirius for 200 miles (in the company of a more
experienced ufologist), I don't anticipate making that mistake
again.

>Perceptions of reality and stimuli vary from one person to the
>next just as what's 'real' and not real is subject to each
>person's interpretation.

I think perhaps we are getting confused about what "ufology" is.
I think that Stan may have touched on that point in his post,
and it is something that has been argued about before. Ideally,
I would propose that ufology is the study of unidentified flying
objects, but that would actually be incorrect, it is the study
of _reports_ of UFOs as very few ufologists are in posession of
an UFO which they can actually study. Those reports are made,
investigated and debated by people.


Regards,

Joe







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 11

                         Re: Greg Long? - Stockstill

From: Bill Stockstill <size14d@bigfoot.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 20:17:20 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 20:21:36 -0400
Subject: Re: Greg Long? - Stockstill


>From: Stephen MILES Lewis <ufoupdates@elfis.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:16:55 -0500
>Subject: Re: Greg Long?

>>From: Bill Stockstill <size14d@bigfoot.com>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:16:15 -0400
>>Subject: Greg Long?

>>Does anyone know whatever happened to paranormal investigator
>>Greg Long? His Northwest Mysteries website was one of the most
>>interesting sites I have come across in the 8 years I have been
>>surfing the Net. That site had some wonderful investigative
>>stories and its a shame it isn't at least archived somewhere. I
>>was especially intrigued by the UFO audio clip he had that was
>>recorded from a police radio during an encounter where several
>>police officers were watching a UFO over, I believe, the
>>Columbia River.

>I don't know what happened to Greg Long - I too would like to
>know as I greatly appreciated his web site and efforts and
>book(s?).

>>I'd gladly donate the 30MB of webspace my ISP gives me to put
>>his work back on the Net.

>Donate away... download what you can hear...



Hi Stephen

I did not realize Greg had written any books. Checking Amazon I
see his 1990 book "Examining the Earthlight Theory: The Yakima
UFO Microcosm" but more interesting there's a book due out this
year from Prometheus Books co-authored with Kal Korff called
"The Making of Bigfoot". This might explain Greg's absence.
Knowing what Kal has written about (exposing Billy Meier) and
from what the title suggests it might be a debunking book based
on the recent death of Ray Wallace and his family saying he
faked bigfoot tracks.

I used to be with MSN's UFO Forum (later Community) and we had
Kal as a guest on numerous occasions and I personally hosted
some chats that featured Greg. The book I thought Kal was going
to write was a JFK Conspiracy book. Back in the late 90s he told
us in a chat that he was going to make available, as a test for
his upcoming book, photos that you could use your home
computer's picture software to magnify and see who was shooting
JFK. But, we never got the photos from him and he hasn't
published that book.

I also see from visiting Kal's site that he has moved to Prague.
I think he was living in California back when we were doing the
chats. Maybe Greg moved there too.

Anyway, maybe after this book hits the shelves Greg will
resurface on the net.

Bill






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 11

                   Re: What Is Real In Ufology - McGonagle

From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk>
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 01:39:13 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 21:21:17 -0400
Subject: Re: What Is Real In Ufology - McGonagle


>From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:28:51 -0500
>Subject: Re: What Is Real In Ufology

<snip>

>I think your list is too short. Other things that are real are:

>4. Government documents on UFO incursions into military areas,

>5. Radar detection cases,

>6. Ground trace cases,

>7. Photos and videos that show no indication of being hoaxes.


Hello Lan, List,

Yes, I would agree with this, though we may not neccessarily
agree on their interpretation or significance, and as you later
mention, I do regard these as stimuli.

>You may have been thinking these other things belong in the
>single category "stimuli," but stimuli would include Venus,
>weather balloons, and overindulgence in alcoholic beverages.  I
>think there's a profound difference between those "prosaic"
>types of stimulus and the categories I listed. In my opinion,
>numbers 4 through 7 are the real stimuli that explain why public
>interest is so high after 50 years of debunking campaigns
>sanctioned by the government and in some cases financed by it.

No, I think the public are far less selective. If presented with
"the best ever video footage" which many ufologists recognise as
a helium balloon, or a digital video camera zoomed in on a point
light source, a large proportion of them are persuaded that it
must be something anomalous because it's on the BBC news and the
BBC say it's "the best ever". On the other hand, tell them that
there are 2000 pages which have just been released by the MOD
relating to "Britain's x-files", few if any of the public
(outside ufology or the media) and even few self-styled
ufologists will actually bother to go and examine the documents
themselves. The point is that by volume, mundane objects
generate far more UFO reports than genuinely anomalous events,
and sorting the wheat from the chaff is complicated by all sorts
of human factors.

>>Though I am not confident of the broad support for the third
>>point?
>
>
>Some people, like Steven Greer, do seem to attribute benevolent
>motives to ETs. But other people attribute malevolent motives to
>them. Still others, like myself, have no idea what the motives
>of any ETs in visiting Earth might be. I suspect their motives
>would be largely incomprehensible to us. I think the
>psychological need for a benevolent "super being" has far more
>to do with the existence of churches than it does with the UFO
>phenomenon.

I look at it the opposite way - for some people, ufology is just
another church, but more fashionable, more relevant to modern
life, and less restrictive  (You don't need to go to university
or become ordained to become a channeler, a contactee, or an
alien visitor). When people reach the conclusion that the old
man with the white beard, fire and brimstone, and eternal
paradise are starting to look a bit wobbly, they look for
another crutch which seems more credible. Of course this doesn't
apply to all ufologists, some of which are also devout
churchgoers, .but the evangelical faction of ufology make at
least as much, if not more noise than "mainstream" ufologists
(they also attract more media coverage than they deserve).
Thankfully, the public does appear to be more selective in this
area, possibly in part due to their own religious dogma. It does
however taint "mainstream" ufology and I can envisage an
increasing ratio of evangelical/mainstream ufologists over the
next 20 years as world living standards improve and the internet
penetrates deeper into the third world.


Regards,


Joe







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 11

                          Re: Greg Long? - Andersen

From: Katlhleen Andersen <KAnder6444@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 20:51:31 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 21:23:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Greg Long? - Andersen


>From: Bill Stockstill <size14d@bigfoot.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:16:15 -0400
>Subject: Greg Long?



>Does anyone know whatever happened to paranormal investigator
>Greg Long?


Greg lives here in Seattle and has been out of the public eye
for a while. The last time I talked with him he still does
research but has chosen to focus on his family life and a new
wife.

If you need me to talk with him, let me know and I can give him
a call. He prefers to keep his number confidential.


Katlhleen Andersen

MUFON
Seattle








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 12

                      Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Jacobson

From: Eric Jacobson <ejacobson74@comcast.net>
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 21:57:02 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 07:40:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Jacobson


>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:22:47 +0200
>Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants'

>>From: Eric Jacobson <ejacobson74@comcast.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 17:40:57 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants'

>>>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr>
>>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 09:37:25 +0200
>>>Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants'

><snip>

>>This is why the pronouncements of Lier et al and of NIDS as
>>well, even given that "one metallurgists looked at it and said
>>it was very unusual" are totally un-convincing. If Lier, NIDS
>>and company were at all interested in sold scientific approach
>>they would convene such a panel, turn over their fragments and
>>report the outcome. There is no obstacle to their doing this
>>other than their disinterest in hearing the results. For my
>>money they'd all be recognized as terrestrial objects. The fact
>>that neither Lier nor NIDS have done this, and trumpet "results"
>>nevertheless, is all the indication we should need of their
>>total absence of serious scientific intent.

>To Eric and the List

>First, again, his name is Leir, not Lier.

>Secondly, you misquote me. The metallurgist that I know examined
>the chemical composition of the metallic fragment, not just
>"looked at it". This composition was determined in a competent
>laboratory, New Mexico Tech.

>That is is scientific research.

>What is unscientific, in my opinion, is to reject the findings
>and decide that there is nothing there.

Gildas,

Yes but the point is that it is not scientifically adequate to
have any one specialist examine a specimen. It takes around half
a dozen micro-particle ID specialists to determine that such a
particle in not a well-known terrestrial object.

The opinion of a single metalurgist is not adequate.


Best wishes,

Eric






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 12

                           Re: Greg Long? - Lewis

From: SMiles Lewis <miles@elfis.net>
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 21:20:32 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 07:45:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Greg Long? - Lewis

For some reason the URL I included in my original reply to your
post was dropped:

>Donate away... download what you can hear...

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.nwmyst.com


SMiles







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 12

              Re: Investigator's Right & Debunking Hypocrisy -

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 23:58:11 EDT
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 07:48:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Investigator's Right & Debunking Hypocrisy -


>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net>
>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:19:25 -0700
>Subject: Investigator's Right & Debunking Hypocrisy

>>From: Bruce Hutchinson <bhutch@grassyhill.com>
>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>>Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2003 14:23:01 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Investigator's Right To Investigate

<snip>

>I recently became aware of the article and am drafting a letter
>of response to the Inquirer right now. Thomas did exactly the
>same thing as Printy, claiming that since he could reproduce
>Moore's (bogus) calculation, Moore was right and I was
>mathematically "incompetent." The problem was, Moore's
>calculation was full of "mistakes" and the mathematical
>equivalent of 2 + 2 = 3. All the fatal math mistakes were
>pointed out on my website, but Thomas, naturally, doesn't
>mention a single one of them, calling them only "quibbles" and
>"shrill accusations."

It is a serious topic matter but in ways the skeptibunker
concept that they floated caused me to laugh more then once. The
concept goes something to the effect of "Well if you can see how
the bogus math problem was created, then somehow, someway, it
was in fact correct. Example being 2 plus 2 = 5. According to
the skeptibunker rationale all you have to do is be able to
duplicate the mistake, then that makes the original correct.

>(If you read Thomas' article, do note that Moore "didn't want to
>get into the math" when Thomas spoke to him. This is a tacit
>admission by Moore that he can't defend his math, instead
>letting propaganda lackeys like Thomas and Printy try to do it
>for him.)

David is correct here. Since Moore "didn't want to get into the
math" then Moore or Thomas want to duck the math subject.
Doesn't say much about the accuracy of the math.

As I recall even if the math was accurate the closest you could
drop a balloon was 17 miles, so bottom line, best case scenario
is the theory is 17 miles short.

Cheers,

Robert







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 12

                       Disclosure Australia - 07-12-03

From: Diane Harrison - AUFORN <auforn@hypermax.net.au>
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 13:49:26 +1000
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 08:14:23 -0400
Subject: Disclosure Australia - 07-12-03


New Disclosure Australia announcement

The Disclosure Australia Project has added another first to its
website. A 50 page comprehensive listing of South Australian UFO
reports between 1932 and 2003 has just been added to "What's
New"?

The list contains some classic cases, and some relatively
unknown but interesting events. Have a look at the early 1950's
observations from Woomera. http://disclosure.freewebpage.org.

--

Thank you for participating.

The Disclosure Australia Project is auspiced
by the Australian UFO Research Network
http://www.hypermax.net.au/~auforn/

PO Box 738,
Beaudesert,
Queensland, 4285
E-mail: auforn@hypermax.net.au
Tel/Fax 07 55 44 6888
UFO Hotline 1800 77 22 88

Project Secretary AURA
Australian UFO Research Association.

Snail mail:
The Secretariat, Disclosure Australia,
PO Box 786, North Adelaide,
South Australia  5006
E-mail: disclosureaustralia@yahoo.com.au
Telephone:    041 141 7594.

AURA its Mission Statement and Aims
can be found at: http://aura.freewebpage.org

Project web presence at
http://disclosure.freewebpage.org







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 12

                      Re: Jarrold & 'Liquidation Of The

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 22:24:25 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 08:16:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Jarrold & 'Liquidation Of The


>From: Bill Chalker <bill_c@bigpond.com>
>To: ufoupdates@sympatico.ca
>Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 12:21:23 +1000
>Subject: Re: Jarrold & 'Liquidation Of The UFO Investigators'? Article

>>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto ><ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:05:18 -0400
>>Subject: 'Liquidation Of The UFO Investigators'? Article

>Yeah right!

>I recollect when this article came out I thought it was rubbish,
>and I certainly feel the same way today.

>Just for the sake of facts, the article lists:

>"Edgar Jarrold, 1960. Australian UFOlogist who vanished
>mysteriously."

>Well he wasn't liquidated! While he became elusive he certainly
>didn't disappear. He became fodder for Gray Barker's "MIB
>potboiler" - "They knew too much about flying saucers". It is
>pretty clear from correspondence I've seen that Gray Barker knew
>that more prosaic factors were at work, but hey why let the
>facts get in the way of a good story.

>Jarrold left the "flying saucer" scene in the mid 1950s - 1954-
>55 - In mid 1955 when he was by all accounts departed from the
>scene, a feature article in the Australian "People" magazine
>headlined The Australian Flying Saucer Bureau believes MARTIANS
>MAY LAND HERE NEXT YEAR and focusing on Jarrold, confirmed that
>despite all the other intrigues that had diverted him up until
>then, Edgar Jarrold was still enamoured by his Martian theory -
>a theory that he had entertained since 1952.<?xml:namespace
>prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> He
>resurfaced briefly in the early seventies to titillate some
>researchers of that period, and passed away in the late 70s or
>early 80s I think. The 1960 reference in the Binder piece was
>related to a total "beat up" about a probable prosaic incident
>on a department store esculator. If it was "liquidation" "they"
>were after, the "liquidators" were about as reliable as the
>article - nil.


Hello Bill, good to hear from you!

I had the same reaction to the Ufologist Liquidation article. I
confess I didn't read it all, my BS alarm was troubling me.

One added thought however: It may well be that UFO enthusiasts
(of all types) have shorter life spans than the general public.
Given the zany collection of really disturbed people who flock
to these matters, (the saner more serious types aside of course)
it would be no big surprise.

Maybe the life-spans of 'UFO people' to coin a phrase, should be
compared to other groups with equally large percentages of
people having difficulties with reality, including but not
limited to those with a need to believe, which outweighs the
most solid reasoning and common sense.

There are some bizarre cults out there, maybe that would be a
more valid comparison than the general public.

The Jim Jones cult comes to mind. Remember Guyana? That group
came together in the Bay Area here. They had a nearly 100%
mortality rate in a single afternoon. Poisoned Kool-Aid!

The only government conspiracy I saw was the usual blind-sided
reaction and ass-covering we all know so well.

In any case, and with the possible exception of job interviews,
I have never felt afraid to show my interest in UFOs. My
intemperate habits are probably a far greater risk to my health.
[burp!]



Best wishes

- Larry Hatch







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 12

              Re: Popular Mechanics Roswell Article - Friedman

From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com>
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 08:27:33 -0300
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 08:18:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Popular Mechanics Roswell Article - Friedman


>From: Bruce Hutchinson <bhutch@grassyhill.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 00:02:49 -0400
>Subject: Popular Mechanics Roswell Article

>Listerians and Readers;

>Jim Wilson, the Science Editor for Popular Mechanics who wrote
>the June article on Roswell, was interviewed on The Todd Mundt
>Show (a NPR talk show) today.

>If you missed this, there is an archive of this show at
>
>http://www.toddshow.org

>The URL for this particular broadcast is

>http://www.toddshow.org/ram/tmshow0710.ram


The new issue of the US UFO Magazine contains my detailed
rebuttal of the Cover Story about Roswell by Jim Wilson in
Popular Mechanics and the much worse Cover Story about Roswell
by meteorologist Duke Gildenberg in Skeptic Magazine.

Both are excellent examples of the intellectual bankruptcy of
the pseudoscience of anti-ufology... bias and ignorance based
propaganda.

The cover of Skeptic is particularly ludicrous as it shows an
intact saucer stuck in the ground with sheep in the foreground
and military vehicles in the background and no connection at all
with the article or the debris field. Duke seems hell bent on
tabloidizing the story. Buyer beware.


Stan Friedman
www.v-j-enterprises.com/sfpage.html








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 12

                       Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 09:36:58 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 11:08:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Kaeser


>From: Eric Jacobson <ejacobson74@comcast.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 21:57:02 -0400
>Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants'

>>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:22:47 +0200
>>Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants'

<snip>

>What is unscientific, in my opinion, is to reject the findings
>>and decide that there is nothing there.

>Gildas,

>Yes but the point is that it is not scientifically adequate to
>have any one specialist examine a specimen. It takes around half
>a dozen micro-particle ID specialists to determine that such a
>particle in not a well-known terrestrial object.

>The opinion of a single metalurgist is not adequate.

An opinion from a qualified (and hopefully respected)
metallurgist should be adequate to require further investigation
by others in the field. Of course this costs money, unless the
lab is willing to donate their resources, and there (I think) is
the problem.

It's been found that some labs have been willing to perform
testing as long as they can remain anonymous, so that
potentially unpopular findings won't impact their reputation.
This could be at little or no cost because of friendship with a
researcher or an honest interest in the genre on the part of the
scientist or lab management. But if a lab is going to go "on
record" with their findings, they usually want to be paid for
their efforts and potential risk. Any scientist or specialist
who makes extraordinary claims, regardless of the subject area,
is going to be placed under a microscope, along with their
findings.


Steve








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 12

             Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens - Pope

From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 14:56:50 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 11:10:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens - Pope


>From: Dan Bright <dan@zaziork.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 22:20:54 +0100
>Subject: Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens

>>From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 00:27:18 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens

>>My statement concerning there being no question of RAF aircraft
>>being ordered to shoot down UFOs was based not on a specific
>>recollection of a particular document, but on my more general
>>knowledge of Rules of Engagement (ROE) and Standard Operating
>>Procedure (SOP). These aren't (as Jan Aldrich recognised in a
>>separate post) areas that I can talk about, for obvious reasons.

>Nick,

>Am I correct in my understanding that at present, in order to
>destroy any 'enemy target' in UK airspace, the chain of command
>would require prime ministerial authorisation? As I understand
>it, this would involve a four-stage process, using the emergency
>communications systems. The chain of command is: Air Chief
>Marshal -- Secretary of State for Defence -- Chief of the
>Defence Staff -- Prime Minister. This information is publicly
>available (one example being the publication of such in the
>London Times, September 29, 2001).

>Are you able to confirm whether this policy was in operation
>during 1956?

Dan and List,

I still work for the Ministry of Defence, so I'm afraid that I
can neither confirm nor deny the accuracy of this newspaper
article.

All I can say about 1956 is that I stand by my statement that no
RAF aircrew would have been given an order to shoot down a UFO.


Best wishes,

Nick Pope







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 12

                  Re: STS-48 Time Tags Explained - Fleming

From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com>
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 09:42:36 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 11:58:23 -0400
Subject: Re: STS-48 Time Tags Explained - Fleming


>From: James Oberg <jamesoberg@houston.rr.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:53:49 -0500
>Subject: Re: STS-48 Time Tags Explained - Oberg

>>From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com>
>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 22:13:46 -0500
>>Subject: Re: STS-48 Time Tags Explained

>>But it's quite obvious that [image analysis]it's not the
>>specialty of Mr. Oberg or his anonymous specialists, either. At
>>least I've demonstrated some facility in that discipline. Mr.
>>Oberg's specialists, whatever it is they specialize in, have
>>demonstrated none.

>I should point out a misinterpretation of `anonymous' here - it
>means a person who withholds his name. None of my consulted
>experts I've been referring to withheld their names from me, not
>one was ever `anonymous'. I knew many from years of joint work,
>and others through reputation and record. I then withheld SOME
>of their names until I receive their permission - and since the
>prospect of being harassed by somebody who has convinced himself
>that they are incompetents and falsifiers is not anticipated as
>a great pleasure, some have not given that permission.

I don't know what "harassment" Oberg is ranting about. I do not
harass people in private email correspondence. In fact, when I
find myself to be the target of abusive email, I simply ask the
person responsible to stop sending it to me, as Oberg knows from
first-hand experience.

>So these specialists are NOT `anonymous', nor even in many cases
>unnamed - in these exchanges I've quoted by name from works of
>INCO's Castle and Moolchan, from people present during STS-48
>(Jim Bates, and myself), from certified MCC FDO's such as Dan
>Adamo and respected amateur satellite trackers such as Ted
>Molczan, from STS-48 crewmen Brown and Reightler, from MLE
>principle investigator Otha Vaughan, and so forth - all men who
>have documented specializations in directly relevant areas of
>expertise, and whose names I gave.

None of the above names are connected to the presentation of any
_evidence_ supporting Oberg's claims that the light flash seen
in the STS-48 video is caused by a rocket firing. Apparently,
none of these specialists noted the flash's correct position in
the camera field of view. And if they didn't even bother to
determine the correct position, then they CERTAINLY have no
explanation for the spatial distribution of the flash's
brightness, which indicates that the flash was actually lens
flare. Speaking of Dr. Vaughan, Mr. Oberg seems to have already
forgotten that Vaughan CONFIRMED the unreliability of the video
time stamps that I had previously concluded for the many reasons
previously stated.

>Again, an alien concept to Fleming - being challenged on a
>question of fact, going back and rechecking, and deciding the
>challenge was correct and the allegation of fact must be
>modified to be more in accord with evidence. You'll never catch
>FLEMING doing any such trickery, fer shoor! <grin>

As anyone who read my NSF paper on the STS-48 video knows, it's
largely a long, and I'm afraid somewhat boring, account of how I
rechecked facts and assumptions based on input from EXPERTS. The
trick I _don't_ use is acting as if I knew something all along
when I didn't. Mr. Oberg is obviously having difficulty keeping
up the facade that this light flash was something routine when
its position and spatial distribution had not been properly
characterized until a few months ago -- by me, which must make
it a particularly bitter pill for him to swallow.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 12

               Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens -

From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 11:23:38 -0300
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 12:03:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens -


>From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 14:56:50 +0100
>Subject: Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens

<snip>

>Dan and List,

>I still work for the Ministry of Defence, so I'm afraid that I
>can neither confirm nor deny the accuracy of this newspaper
>article.

>All I can say about 1956 is that I stand by my statement that no
>RAF aircrew would have been given an order to shoot down a UFO.


Hello Nick,

How are you doing?

You say that RAF wouldn't shoot a UFO. But considering your
position in the Ministry of Defence, with access to info from
overseas, would you say - if you can - that other countries have
done that? The United States, for instance?


Best

A. J.







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 12

                  Re: Sci-Fi Channel Kecksberg & Rendelsham

From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 17:22:46 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 13:59:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Sci-Fi Channel Kecksberg & Rendelsham


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:47:41 -0400
>Subject: Sci-Fi Channel Kecksberg & Rendelsham Documentaries

>SCI FI GOES "CSI"

>New "Declassified" specials hosted by Bryant Gumbel
>seek the forensic truth behind UFO incidents

>This fall, SCI FI Channel will introduce a series of original
>two-hour primetime documentary specials, in the spirit of last
>year's highly successful The Roswell Crash: Startling New
>Evidence. The SCI FI Declassified franchise will launch with
>two groundbreaking investigations, hosted by Bryant Gumbel
>(CBS's The Early Show, NBC's Today Show), that uncover stunning
>new evidence utilizing the quantifiable, forensic tools of
>modern science. SCI FI moves outside Roswell to chronicle fresh
>forensic testing in connection to two unsolved cases involving
>unknown objects from space -- one in Pennsylvania, and one in
>Great Britain.

><snip>

>RENDLESHAM: THE UK's ROSWELL (tentative title)

>SCI FI travels across the Atlantic to expose one of the most
>notorious UFO incidents of the twentieth century, a series of
>events that occurred near an American military base in Rendlesham
>Forest, England in 1980. Unlike Roswell, a majority of witnesses
>(civilians and former military) are still alive and have finally
>come forward to participate and provide new evidence for SCI FI's
>investigation. Rendlesham was recently catapulted back into the
>headlines after the British government acknowledged it classified
>documents to cover-up the incident. Hosted by Bryant Gumbel.

<snip>

Steven and List,

A while ago there was some discussion on this List about a
documentary on the Rendlesham Forest incident, made for BBC 3 by
the independent production company Mentorn. Georgina Bruni
(author of You Can't Tell The People) was the programme
consultant and worked hard at securing the co-operation of
various USAF witnesses, some of whom agreed to do on-camera
interviews for the first time.

Unfortunately, time and money were exceptionally tight, and in
the end, the only USAF witnesses to appear on the Mentorn
programme were Charles Halt and Jim Penniston, who have already
appeared on numerous documentaries. Aside from comments from
Lord Hill-Norton and myself, discussing the official response
to this incident, the programme concentrated on the views of UFO
researchers. Many of these interviews were fascinating, but to
focus on the ufologists, given the various witnesses who had
been prepared to appear, was a missed opportunity.

I am pleased to say that the work Georgina Bruni did for Mentorn
has not been wasted, and that she has been working with the
producers and the witnesses, with the aim of ensuring that as
many USAF participants in these events as possible appear on the
SCI FI Channel show.

I look forward to what should be a most revealing documentary.

Best wishes,

Nick Pope







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 12

                      Re: Rendlesham UFO 'Hoax' - Bruni

From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 17:15:52 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 14:01:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Rendlesham UFO 'Hoax' - Bruni


>From: Gary Stedman <Gary.Stedman@btopenworld.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:57:57 +0100
>Subject: Re: Rendlesham UFO 'Hoax'

>The so called 'nuclear weapons area' at Bentwaters has cropped
>up many times in this case. While it goes without saying that
>this area exists (Ms. Bruni's book covers this in detail and
>locals were aware of its location). I wonder if anybody's
>investigation has uncovered as to what would have been held in
>this area at the time of the incident, or even if anything
>actually was. The reason I suggest this is that aviation units
>operating out of the twin bases at that time where not nuclear
>capable (81st TFW and 67th ARRS).

Hi Gary & Listmembers

The subject of nuclear weapons was always a delicate subject
with former RAF Bentwaters/Woodbridge officers, whose usual line
(for obvious reasons) was, 'I can neither confirm nor deny.'
This said, those I interviewed who claimed to have been in a
position to know, insist that there were indeed nuclear weapons
at Bentwaters, in 1980, however, this did not apply to the
Woodbridge base. The weapons were said to have been kept in
storage bunkers known as 'The Hot Row'. These were short rage,
and although stored at Bentwaters and other USAF bases around
the UK, were also transported to Forward Operating Locations
(small installations with a handful of officers) in Germany. It
was General Gordon Williams, the base commander of
Bentwaters/Woodbridge at that time, who was responsible for
creating these FOL's.

The A10 (tankbusters) were brought over to the bases as part of
'Operation Ready Bentwaters', which took place in 1979 due to
the build up of world tensions. According to General Gordon
Williams these were as you imply, used exclusively for close air
support of allied armies. It is my opinion based on interviews,
that nuclear weapons were held at Bentwaters and would have been
flown to Germany where they would have been deployed if need be.
It stands to reason that you 'don't put all your chickens in one
basket,' so to speak. For if the other installations were under
attack, then there would still be weapons elsewhere, and close
enough to be able to retaliate.

Please see page 306/307 of 'You Can't Tell The People' which
covers a classified exercise carried out at Bentwaters. 'Proper
Watch' tested the procedures in place for responding to the
crash of a US transport aircraft carrying nuclear weapons.

These types of weapons have been kept on USAF military bases in
the UK since the early 1950's, and were even on the Woodbridge
base at one time. In fact see page 305 of 'You Can't Tell The
People' which covers another official document titled 'Nuclear
Retaliation Procedures', dated 13 March 1961, in which it was
revealed that in the event of a nuclear wipe-out of the United
States of America, Britain would need to secure the nuclear
weapons deployed on US bases in the UK. But if the US officers
refused to hand them over for lack of orders from their now
defunct higher command, then the British Army would shoot the
officers to seize the weapons. The paper was approved by the
Deputy Permanent Secretary of State.


Georgina Bruni






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 12

               Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens -

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net>
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 09:50:08 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 14:03:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens -


>From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 11:23:38 -0300
>Subject: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens


>From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 14:56:50 +0100
>Subject: Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens

<snip>

>>All I can say about 1956 is that I stand by my statement that no
>>RAF aircrew would have been given an order to shoot down a UFO.

>You say that RAF wouldn't shoot a UFO. But considering your
>position in the Ministry of Defence, with access to info from
>overseas, would you say - if you can - that other countries
have
>done that? The United States, for instance?

For an example of where the U.S. seems to have done just that,
see my website on Gen. Ramey's involvement with UFOs:

www.roswellproof.com/Ramey_and_ufos.html

Go down to 1952 and the Washington DC radar/visual/jet intercept
cases. Ramey was operations officer for the Air Defense Command
at the time and in charge of the jet intercepts.

The day before the infamous press conference of Gen. Ramey with
Gen. Samford on July 29, 1952, a story came out in the press
that the pilots were under orders to shoot down the saucers if
they couldn't make them land. An Air Force public information
officer unfortunately made the mistake of confirming that such
an order had been given. "The jet pilots are, and have been
under orders to investigate unidentified objects and to shoot
them down if they can't talk them down."  An example newspaper
story:

http://www.roswellproof.com/ShootDown_INS_72952.html

Two examples of letters/telegrams to the White House protesting
the shoot down order (found by Grant Cameron at the Truman
Library):

http://www.roswellproof.com/Protests_1952.html

Basically these protests say something to the effect, "Are you
crazy?"

And Gen. Ramey's doubletalk press release denying such an order,
while at the same time admitting that, of course, their job was
air defense and would shoot if something was deemed hostile or a
threat:

"No orders have been issued to the Air Defense Command, or by
the Air Defense Command,to its fighter units, to fire on
unidentified aerial phenomena. The Air Force in compliance with
its mission of air defence of the United States must assume the
responsibility for investigation of any object or phenomenon in
the air over the United States. Fighter units have been
instructed to investigate any object observed or established as
existing by radar tracks and to intercept any airborne object
identified as hostile or showing hostile interest. This should
not be interpreted to mean that Air Defense pilots have been
instructed to fire haphazardly on anything that flies." [Quote
in The UFO Encyclopedia by John Spencer]

David Rudiak







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 12

                      Re: Rendlesham UFO 'Hoax' - Bruni

From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 17:15:55 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 14:04:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Rendlesham UFO 'Hoax' - Bruni


>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:51:53 -0700
>Subject: Re: Rendlesham UFO 'Hoax'

>Now we have the latest "flavor-of-the-month" debunking
>explanation - some guy in a beat up car with colored lights on
>it. Yep, that must have been it.

I e-mailed Kevin Conde who claims it was his hoax that was
responsible for the incident. I asked him if he would kindly
answer some questions (those which I put to the list as why his
alleged hoax was not the cause). I felt I was very polite, but
so far I haven't received a reply.

After reviewing the questions he'd have a hard time answering
them if he aims to continue fooling the media that he was
responsible.

I did a search on Conde and I found something really
interesting. Debunker James Easton, who was responsible for
promoting Conde's story, first mentions the hoax in his Voyager
Newsletter No 18.

Conde appears to have had second thoughts about his hoax being
connected to the incident. He wrote:

"This incident [hoax] occurred right after Christmas. For
reasons that are hard to explain it is my impression that I
pulled my stunt during an exercise. We would not have had an
exercise during the Christmas holiday. That is a strong
indication that my stunt is not the source of this specific
incident".

Easton cannot accept the fact that Conde has decided his hoax
was not responsible for the incident and he points out the
following.

"My personal conclusion about Kevin's prank remains unaltered;
if his hoax, or a copycat exercise, wasn't responsible for those
'beams of light', it would be an exceptional coincidence.

Typical!

So ask yourself why Easton still promoted Conde's hoax as being
the sole cause of the Rendlesham incident. And why Conde decided
to change his mind yet again.

It's a well known fact that certain people can get addicted to
being in the media limelight. There is one well-known debunker
of the case who actually apologised to me for continuing the
lighthouse saga. He knows the truth but TV appearances are far
too tempting to ignore. And were he to say that he no longer
believes the lighthouse theory, then he would be of no further
use. Because as we all know the media need a sceptic (or
debunker) to balance their programmes.

Alas, this is what I call egomania. Never mind the poor
witnesses who are still being ridiculed, and never mind the
evidence. What matters to these people is their fifteen minutes
of fame. And what's more they get upset at the idea of answering
certain questions that could make THEM look bad. Questions that
no doubt go against their ridiculous made up theories. And from
what I've heard from producers, you think they were stars!

Sorry, but as you may have gathered, I have absolutely no time
for these people. I just don't tolerate them. My greatest
pleasure has been doing live TV and radio shows when I am up
against one (or several) of them. I have developed a reputation
for making them look foolish, so much so that when I did a
London radio show recently, nobody from a sceptical group could
be found to argue with me.

That said, I have no problem with sceptics who genuinely want to
debate a theory or case. But please don't ever ask me to be
sympathetic with people who go to extremes to try to prove that
a lighthouse or battered car was responsible for the famous
Rendlesham Forest case.

Georgina Bruni







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 12

               Re: Popular Mechanics Roswell Article - Tonnies

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 10:28:51 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 14:06:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Popular Mechanics Roswell Article - Tonnies


>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 08:27:33 -0300
>Subject: Re: Popular Mechanics Roswell Article

<snip>

>The cover of Skeptic is particularly ludicrous as it shows an
>intact saucer stuck in the ground with sheep in the foreground
>and military vehicles in the background and no connection at all
>with the article or the debris field. Duke seems hell bent on
>tabloidizing the story. Buyer beware.

Totally agreed. All I could think of while perusing Skeptic's
latest was the sheer out-datedness of their "debunking." It's a
reiteration of 1997's AF "Case Closed" report. But it's 2003
now. Could it be that the staff at Skeptic is running out of
things to say?

(The same issue includes an obligatory bashing of the Face on
Mars in the "Junior Skeptic" section. No references or decent
photos. Apparently Shermer and company want to keep "Junior
Skeptics" on the right path.)

Skeptic is self-congratulatory but largely vacuous propaganda.
For whatever it's worth, I take their Roswell issue to task on
my website:

http://www.mactonnies.com/cydonia.html (either page 38 or 39)

=====
>Mac Tonnies (macbot@yahoo.com)

Explore MTVI @ http://www.mactonnies.com

Posthuman Blues: http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com (daily blog)








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 12

             Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens - Pope

From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 18:30:09 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 14:08:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens - Pope


>From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 11:23:38 -0300
>Subject: Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens

>>From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 14:56:50 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens

><snip>

>>Dan and List,

>>I still work for the Ministry of Defence, so I'm afraid that I
>>can neither confirm nor deny the accuracy of this newspaper
>>article.

>>All I can say about 1956 is that I stand by my statement that no
>>RAF aircrew would have been given an order to shoot down a UFO.

>Hello Nick,

>How are you doing?

>You say that RAF wouldn't shoot a UFO. But considering your
>position in the Ministry of Defence, with access to info from
>overseas, would you say - if you can - that other countries have
>done that? The United States, for instance?

Hi A. J.

I'm busy on all fronts, but hoping to get to Graham Birdsall's
conference at Leeds in September. I hope to see you there and
look forward to your presentation.

When I was running the UK's UFO research project my brief was
entirely a national one, i.e. to investigate UFO sightings
reported to the Ministry of Defence, and to evaluate the data to
ensure there was no evidence of any threat to the defence of the
UK. Although some of my predecessors had liaised briefly with
the US authorities and based UK policy and operating procedures
on those of Project Blue Book, mine was essentially a national
brief. This was largely due to resource constraints.

What this means is that I really didn't have any access to data
relating to UFO projects in other countries, so I can't answer
your question. Given the global nature of the phenomenon, taking
an entirely national view of it was clearly far from ideal. But
that is an issue on which I was unable to make any progress,
during my tour of duty.


Best wishes,

Nick Pope








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 12

                        Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Evans

From: Chris Evans <chrisevans@zoominternet.net>
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 13:58:13 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 14:11:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Evans


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 09:36:58 -0400
>Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants'

>>From: Eric Jacobson <ejacobson74@comcast.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 21:57:02 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants'

>>>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr>
>>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:22:47 +0200
>>>Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants'

><snip>

>>What is unscientific, in my opinion, is to reject the findings
>>>and decide that there is nothing there.

>>Gildas,

>>Yes but the point is that it is not scientifically adequate to
>>have any one specialist examine a specimen. It takes around half
>>a dozen micro-particle ID specialists to determine that such a
>>particle in not a well-known terrestrial object.

>>The opinion of a single metalurgist is not adequate.

>An opinion from a qualified (and hopefully respected)
>metallurgist should be adequate to require further investigation
>by others in the field. Of course this costs money, unless the
>lab is willing to donate their resources, and there (I think) is
>the problem.

>It's been found that some labs have been willing to perform
>testing as long as they can remain anonymous, so that
>potentially unpopular findings won't impact their reputation.
>This could be at little or no cost because of friendship with a
>researcher or an honest interest in the genre on the part of the
>scientist or lab management. But if a lab is going to go "on
>record" with their findings, they usually want to be paid for
>their efforts and potential risk. Any scientist or specialist
>who makes extraordinary claims, regardless of the subject area,
>is going to be placed under a microscope, along with their
>findings.


Steve et al:

I happened to have worked for a major steel producer in the
past, and can tell you that a lead metallurgist (working with a
given metal type) would be quite familiar with nearly any type
of structure, arising from the process - both, those that are
intentional or unintentional. Further, many of them recycle much
of the resultant refuge, toward being recombined with the ore
stock, to be added to a given type of furnace for reuse. And for
that reason, some of them are well acquainted with the refuse
grade of byproducts arising form the process, as well.

However, I would suspect that the costs involved, or at least
the issue of "scarcity," apply more so to available samples of
the alleged implants; since, these are usually small, and not
readily available. Furthermore, those industries that specialize
in a given metal type, e.g., iron, aluminum, nickel or other
alloys, would be - in my opinion - the experts, above someone
working in a general lab; since, that is what those industrial
metallurgists work with, on a daily basis. While some of them
often have many years of experience.

In other words, if the general, academic labs are to be
viewed as so costly, then why not seek the services
of the true experts in the field? While possibly at a much
lower cost.....


Kind Regards

Chris








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 12

             Re: Sci-Fi Channel Kecksberg & Rendelsham - Fleming

From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com>
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 13:34:04 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 16:46:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Sci-Fi Channel Kecksberg & Rendelsham - Fleming


>From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk>
>Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 17:22:46 +0100
>Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 13:59:42 -0400
>Subject: Re: Sci-Fi Channel Kecksberg & Rendelsham

<snip>

>Unfortunately, time and money were exceptionally tight, and in
>the end, the only USAF witnesses to appear on the Mentorn
>programme were Charles Halt and Jim Penniston, who have already
>appeared on numerous documentaries. Aside from comments from
>Lord Hill-Norton and myself, discussing the official response
>to this incident, the programme concentrated on the views of UFO
>researchers. Many of these interviews were fascinating, but to
>focus on the ufologists, given the various witnesses who had
>been prepared to appear, was a missed opportunity.

That reminds me: one thing worth noting about the "Out of the
Blue" documentary shown on the Sci-Fi channel last month is that
Airman Ed Cabansag was interviewed about Rendlesham. I don't
think he was ever interviewed before. A paper signed by him has
been cited by debunkers as evidence that what he, Penniston, and
Burroughs saw was the infamous lighthouse.

Cabansag said on the program that somebody else wrote this
report and ordered him to sign it. His real opinion is that the
lights they followed in the forest were not from any lighthouse.
Of course, that's just the opinion of a first-hand witness,
which I'm sure won't carry as much weight with debunkers as the
opinion previously attributed to him in the report he says he
didn't write.








                         The UFO UpDates Archive
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 12

                              Mount Herman UFO

From: Larry Taylor <Seven_Dimension@webtv.net>
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 13:33:51 -0500 (CDT)
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 16:50:42 -0400
Subject: Mount Herman UFO


Here is an interesting story with photos of a 2002 UFO in
strange cloud formation that happened in southeast Oklahoma. I
live within 40 miles of this location and this is one of the
best documented events lately in this area. Thought you would
find this included page below of interest.

http://www.mccurtain.com/mthermanufo.htm

Larry Taylor
Oklahoma/USA






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 12

                       Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 14:48:30 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 16:52:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Kaeser


>From: Chris Evans <chrisevans@zoominternet.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 13:58:13 -0400
>Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants'

>>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 09:36:58 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants'

<snip>

>Steve et al:

>I happened to have worked for a major steel producer in the
>past, and can tell you that a lead metallurgist (working with a
>given metal type) would be quite familiar with nearly any type
>of structure, arising from the process - both, those that are
>intentional or unintentional. Further, many of them recycle much
>of the resultant refuge, toward being recombined with the ore
>stock, to be added to a given type of furnace for reuse. And for
>that reason, some of them are well acquainted with the refuse
>grade of byproducts arising form the process, as well.

>However, I would suspect that the costs involved, or at least
>the issue of "scarcity," apply more so to available samples of
>the alleged implants; since, these are usually small, and not
>readily available. Furthermore, those industries that specialize
>in a given metal type, e.g., iron, aluminum, nickel or other
>alloys, would be - in my opinion - the experts, above someone
>working in a general lab; since, that is what those industrial
>metallurgists work with, on a daily basis. While some of them
>often have many years of experience.

>In other words, if the general, academic labs are to be
>viewed as so costly, then why not seek the services
>of the true experts in the field? While possibly at a much
>lower cost.....


Hi Chris-

The scarcity of samples issue is a hard one to resolve, but
we're probably looking at this entire matter far too
simplistically.

A number of alleged "debris" samples that Linda Moulton Howe had
in her possession in the late 90's had far more unusual
properties that what I've seen discussed here. Those were
examined and while the elements they contained weren't
unearthly, the manner in which they been placed together in the
sample was very unusual. For researchers to find something truly
unusual from an unknown source is certainly nothing new to the
field.

Be that as it may, a meeting was recently held to discuss
possible methodologies in dealing with a truly important trace
evidence case, should one come up. One of the main concerns was
the cost of getting independent analysis performed that did not
specifically involve scientists who were directly involved in
the genre. The goal is some sort of independent verification of
the "strangeness", so that evidence could be used in the
preparation of a scientific report for publication in a
mainstream scientific journal.

As I've mentioned in earlier posts, I'm not an expert in the
area of Dr. Leir's implants and can only speculate as to why
further research has not taken place (or at least been made
public). As I understand it, NIDS lost interest in pursuing
further laboratory analysis and at this point it's outside the
scope of their interests.

From "chain of custody" issues to truly independent analysis of
any evidence gathered, this entire matter is far more
complicated than many understand. Perhaps one day a process can
be set up to deal with these issues in a quick and logical
fashion. But that hasn't happened as of yet.


Steve












   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 12

                     Re: Rendlesham UFO 'Hoax' - Rudiak

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net>
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 12:28:13 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 17:27:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Rendlesham UFO 'Hoax' - Rudiak


>From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 17:15:55 +0100
>Subject: Re: Rendlesham UFO 'Hoax' - Bruni

>>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:51:53 -0700
>>Subject: Re: Rendlesham UFO 'Hoax'


>>Now we have the latest "flavor-of-the-month" debunking
>>explanation - some guy in a beat up car with colored lights on
>>it. Yep, that must have been it.

>I e-mailed Kevin Conde who claims it was his hoax that was
>responsible for the incident. I asked him if he would kindly
>answer some questions (those which I put to the list as why his
>alleged hoax was not the cause).

<snip>

>So ask yourself why Easton still promoted Conde's hoax as being
>the sole cause of the Rendlesham incident. And why Conde decided
>to change his mind yet again.

>It's a well known fact that certain people can get addicted to
>being in the media limelight. There is one well-known debunker
>of the case who actually apologised to me for continuing the
>lighthouse saga. He knows the truth but TV appearances are far
>too tempting to ignore. And were he to say that he no longer
>believes the lighthouse theory, then he would be of no further
>use. Because as we all know the media need a sceptic (or
>debunker) to balance their programmes.

<snip>

>That said, I have no problem with sceptics who genuinely want
to
>debate a theory or case. But please don't ever ask me to be
>sympathetic with people who go to extremes to try to prove that
>a lighthouse or battered car was responsible for the famous
>Rendlesham Forest case.

Georgina,

The one lesson people should take home if they look at my photos
and maps of the site:

www.roswellproof.com/Rendlesham_pictorial.html

is that it is _impossible_ to see the lighthouse from the base
because of trees and terrain, not to mention the fact that the
lighthouse has a landward light shield that would have blocked
any direct beam in the direction of the base.

How then would an invisible lighthouse beam at the base be
confused with a possible plane crash in the woods and draw the
guards out there in the first place?

Another thing comes to mind with the Conde and his beat up car
story. I scanned in one photo from your book (hope you don't
mind) taken by Adrian Bustinza, looking down the small road from
East Gate toward Rendlesham forest to the east. Comparing it to
my present-day photo taken from the same vantage point, and one
notices that the trees lining the East Gate road to the main
forest were missing in 1980. Presumably these were removed in
the interest of base security.

The point is that the guards at East Gate had a clear view all
the way down the road to the big trees in the background, shown
in Bustinza's photo. Where exactly was Conde supposed to be
hiding his car? Was he driving it through the trees at the end
of East Gate road?


David Rudiak







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 12

               Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens -

From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 16:19:10 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 17:29:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens -


>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net>
>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 09:50:08 -0700
>Subject: Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens

>>From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 11:23:38 -0300
>>Subject: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens

>>From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 14:56:50 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens

><snip>

>>>All I can say about 1956 is that I stand by my statement that no
>>>RAF aircrew would have been given an order to shoot down a UFO.

>>You say that RAF wouldn't shoot a UFO. But considering your
>>position in the Ministry of Defence, with access to info from
>>overseas, would you say - if you can - that other countries
>have
>>done that? The United States, for instance?

>For an example of where the U.S. seems to have done just that,
>see my website on Gen. Ramey's involvement with UFOs:

>www.roswellproof.com/Ramey_and_ufos.html

>Go down to 1952 and the Washington DC radar/visual/jet intercept
>cases. Ramey was operations officer for the Air Defense Command
>at the time and in charge of the jet intercepts.

>The day before the infamous press conference of Gen. Ramey with
>Gen. Samford on July 29, 1952, a story came out in the press
>that the pilots were under orders to shoot down the saucers if
>they couldn't make them land. An Air Force public information
>officer unfortunately made the mistake of confirming that such
>an order had been given. "The jet pilots are, and have been
>under orders to investigate unidentified objects and to shoot
>them down if they can't talk them down." An example newspaper
>story:

>http://www.roswellproof.com/ShootDown_INS_72952.html

>Two examples of letters/telegrams to the White House protesting
>the shoot down order (found by Grant Cameron at the Truman
>Library):

>http://www.roswellproof.com/Protests_1952.html

>Basically these protests say something to the effect, "Are you
>crazy?"

>And Gen. Ramey's doubletalk press release denying such an order,
>while at the same time admitting that, of course, their job was
>air defense and would shoot if something was deemed hostile or a
>threat:

>"No orders have been issued to the Air Defense Command, or by
>the Air Defense Command,to its fighter units, to fire on
>unidentified aerial phenomena. The Air Force in compliance with
>its mission of air defence of the United States must assume the
>responsibility for investigation of any object or phenomenon in
>the air over the United States. Fighter units have been
>instructed to investigate any object observed or established as
>existing by radar tracks and to intercept any airborne object
>identified as hostile or showing hostile interest. This should
>not be interpreted to mean that Air Defense pilots have been
>instructed to fire haphazardly on anything that flies." [Quote
>in The UFO Encyclopedia by John Spencer]

>David Rudiak


Gad! Ramey was Director of Operations on the Air Staff in
Washington, D. C. That makes him Stamford's superior. He was not
"operations officer for the Air Defense Command." There is a
huge difference! Ramey had over staff responsibility for all
operations involving all commands of the USAF including the Air
Defense Command.

Ramey's fumbling around at the press conference shows that he
had little knowledge or was not thoroughly briefed on the
situation.


Jan Aldrich

Project 1947
http://www.project1947.com/
P. O. Box 391
Canterbury, CT 06331
(860) 546-9135






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 12

                           Green Fireball Minutes

From: Daniel Guenther <daniel_g@t-online.de>
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 22:38:53 +0200
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 17:31:52 -0400
Subject: Green Fireball Minutes


I transcribed (or 'typed') the 'Minutes' from one of the famous
'Green Fireball' conferences. You can print it out and read it
much faster than the original FOIA documents, for example, or
you can search the text with a search utility.

http://user.cs.tu-berlin.de/~thomasg/gf/gf7.txt

'Original' Version can be found at:

http://www.konsulting.com/PDF_DOCs.htm

or

http://www.blackvault.com/documents/ufos/1949/1949wpafb337.htm

to

http://www.blackvault.com/documents/ufos/1949/1949wpafb361.htm


Many thanks to John Greenewald Jr.!


Daniel G.

--
Just the Cases - UFO sightings database
http://cs.tu-berlin.de/~thomasg/ufodb.htm









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 12

                      Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 16:46:44 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 17:36:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Balaskas


>From: Chris Evans <chrisevans@zoominternet.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 13:58:13 -0400
>Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants'

>>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 09:36:58 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants'

>>>From: Eric Jacobson <ejacobson74@comcast.net>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 21:57:02 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants'

>>>>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr>
>>>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>>Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:22:47 +0200
>>>>Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants'

>>>>What is unscientific, in my opinion, is to reject the findings
>>>>and decide that there is nothing there.

>>>Yes but the point is that it is not scientifically adequate to
>>>have any one specialist examine a specimen. It takes around half
>>>a dozen micro-particle ID specialists to determine that such a
>>>particle in not a well-known terrestrial object.

>>>The opinion of a single metalurgist is not adequate.

>>An opinion from a qualified (and hopefully respected)
>>metallurgist should be adequate to require further investigation
>>by others in the field. Of course this costs money, unless the
>>lab is willing to donate their resources, and there (I think) is
>>the problem.

>>It's been found that some labs have been willing to perform
>>testing as long as they can remain anonymous, so that
>>potentially unpopular findings won't impact their reputation.
>>This could be at little or no cost because of friendship with a
>>researcher or an honest interest in the genre on the part of the
>>scientist or lab management. But if a lab is going to go "on
>>record" with their findings, they usually want to be paid for
>>their efforts and potential risk. Any scientist or specialist
>>who makes extraordinary claims, regardless of the subject area,
>>is going to be placed under a microscope, along with their
>>findings.

>I happened to have worked for a major steel producer in the
>past, and can tell you that a lead metallurgist (working with a
>given metal type) would be quite familiar with nearly any type
>of structure, arising from the process - both, those that are
>intentional or unintentional. Further, many of them recycle much
>of the resultant refuge, toward being recombined with the ore
>stock, to be added to a given type of furnace for reuse. And for
>that reason, some of them are well acquainted with the refuse
>grade of byproducts arising form the process, as well.

>However, I would suspect that the costs involved, or at least
>the issue of "scarcity," apply more so to available samples of
>the alleged implants; since, these are usually small, and not
>readily available. Furthermore, those industries that specialize
>in a given metal type, e.g., iron, aluminum, nickel or other
>alloys, would be - in my opinion - the experts, above someone
>working in a general lab; since, that is what those industrial
>metallurgists work with, on a daily basis. While some of them
>often have many years of experience.

>In other words, if the general, academic labs are to be
>viewed as so costly, then why not seek the services
>of the true experts in the field? While possibly at a much
>lower cost.....

Hi Everyone!

I have met with Dr. Roger Leir several times since I accepted
Roger's request for help in finding highly qualified reseachers
to examine some of his UFO physical evidence (eg. suspected
alien implants, alleged UFO crash debris, fragments from the
Alien Autopsy film, etc.) and to independently evaluate this
evidence.

It has been my experience that all the scientists that I
approached who were in charge of research labs, whether at the
university where I work or other institutions, both private and
public/government, expressed much interest in what I had and
readily made their facilities and staff available to do whatever
tests were necessary to determine the chemicial composition and
physical properties of the artifacts I presented them with.
Since scientists are curious people and what I had could indeed
be something out of the ordinary, in most cases they were
willing to do the tests for free, not even to charge me for
their time, use of their resources or to make copies of their
analytical findings or reports. I just had to show up in person
with whatever unusual artifacts I had and simply asked them if
they could help or perform certain tests. Often they would
suggest different tests be done too, depending on the nature of
these artifacts. For this reason the few biological specimens I
had were examined by scientists at government forensic labs or
top research hospitals.

When the test findings by specialists strongly suggested that
these artifacts had a very Earthly explanation, as was often the
case, Roger (and others who have entrusted me with UFO physical
evidence) accepted it as such and published this for the record
in his 1998 book 'The Aliens and the Scalpel'.

It is interesting to note that although Roger's book was
published by the Bigelow Foundation in co-operation with the
National Institute for Discovery Science (NIDS), there is a
disclaimer in Roger's book that his views do not reflect those
of the Bigelow Foundation or NIDS. This I find very puzzling
even now, when NIDS scientists such as Colm Kelleher do not seem
to fully appreciate the test findings of some UFO physical
evidence that clearly favours an ET rather than an Earthly
explanation as to their origins. One of these is the 1957(?)
Ubatuba UFO fragments that exhibited many unusual and unexpected
test results which were for some reason downplayed or omitted
altogether in Dr. Peter Sturrock's 1999 book 'The UFO Enigma'
(Peter was kind enough to send draft copies of his Ubatuba
papers for me to read before publicaton).

Of course, the 'facts' cannot speak for themselves, but are
interpreted in light of our current scientific knowledge and
beliefs. Since we have no reason to suspect that ET chemistry is
different from chemistry here on Earth, we can point out many
things about a certain rock recovered on the surface of the
thick ice fields in Antartica as evidence that it originated on
Mars but we cannot prove it to the satifaction of everyone. So
unless some unusual artifact is stamped "Made On Mars", even
after a battery of tests by many scientists over many years, we
may not be able to conclusively prove our case. Unfortunately,
this is the situation with nearly all UFO physical evidence we
have studied.

Concerns about costs should never be an excuse for not trying to
have tests done on something that may have great significance to
us all. You simply have to ask.

Fellow ufologist Grant Cameron possesses a very revealing audio
cassette recording of an interview by Wilbert B. Smith's key
'metals man' about the much larger quanitities of UFO hardware
that is not in the public domain which has been positively
determined to be ET in origin. For this reason, one is wrong to
feel that many top labs would want to protect their reputation
by refusing to perform analytical tests on such controversial ET
artifacts when it is likely that they may have secretly been
involved with other equally controversial stuff in the past,
including UFO physical evidence studies.


Nick Balaskas








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 12

                        Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Evans

From: Chris Evans <chrisevans@zoominternet.net>
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 17:37:26 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 17:39:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Evans


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 14:48:30 -0400
>Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants'

>>From: Chris Evans <chrisevans@zoominternet.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 13:58:13 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants'

>>>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
>>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 09:36:58 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants'

><snip>

>>Steve et al:

>>I happened to have worked for a major steel producer in the
>>past, and can tell you that a lead metallurgist (working with a
>>given metal type) would be quite familiar with nearly any type
>>of structure, arising from the process - both, those that are
>>intentional or unintentional. Further, many of them recycle much
>>of the resultant refuge, toward being recombined with the ore
>>stock, to be added to a given type of furnace for reuse. And for
>>that reason, some of them are well acquainted with the refuse
>>grade of byproducts arising form the process, as well.

>>However, I would suspect that the costs involved, or at least
>>the issue of "scarcity," apply more so to available samples of
>>the alleged implants; since, these are usually small, and not
>>readily available. Furthermore, those industries that specialize
>>in a given metal type, e.g., iron, aluminum, nickel or other
>>alloys, would be - in my opinion - the experts, above someone
>>working in a general lab; since, that is what those industrial
>>metallurgists work with, on a daily basis. While some of them
>>often have many years of experience.

>>In other words, if the general, academic labs are to be
>>viewed as so costly, then why not seek the services
>>of the true experts in the field? While possibly at a much
>>lower cost.....

>The scarcity of samples issue is a hard one to resolve, but
>we're probably looking at this entire matter far too
>simplistically.

>A number of alleged "debris" samples that Linda Moulton Howe had
>in her possession in the late 90's had far more unusual
>properties that what I've seen discussed here. Those were
>examined and while the elements they contained weren't
>unearthly, the manner in which they been placed together in the
>sample was very unusual. For researchers to find something truly
>unusual from an unknown source is certainly nothing new to the
>field.

>Be that as it may, a meeting was recently held to discuss
>possible methodologies in dealing with a truly important trace
>evidence case, should one come up. One of the main concerns was
>the cost of getting independent analysis performed that did not
>specifically involve scientists who were directly involved in
>the genre. The goal is some sort of independent verification of
>the "strangeness", so that evidence could be used in the
>preparation of a scientific report for publication in a
>mainstream scientific journal.

>As I've mentioned in earlier posts, I'm not an expert in the
>area of Dr. Leir's implants and can only speculate as to why
>further research has not taken place (or at least been made
>public). As I understand it, NIDS lost interest in pursuing
>further laboratory analysis and at this point it's outside the
>scope of their interests.

>From "chain of custody" issues to truly independent analysis of
>any evidence gathered, this entire matter is far more
>complicated than many understand. Perhaps one day a process can
>be set up to deal with these issues in a quick and logical
>fashion. But that hasn't happened as of yet.


Steve and List:

Very good insight, and well taken from my perspective.
Hopefully, as part of that article I mentioned, will be a
discussion of some hypothetical, operational features. What I
find to be quite strange about a certain phase of reported
abduction encounters, is that part wherein the abductee suddenly
appears to be under control, or following a set of instructions
somehow.

We may not find it surprising (from a psychological perspective)
that the human psyche might develop an amnestic block - even, if
only from the perceived trauma. However, there remains that
portion of the ensuing drama, where abductees often recall
making what may appear to be 'decisions,' such as "turn left
down this deserted road," and then, "shut off the engine . . .
and step out of the car."

All these things, I'm sure, will be quite interesting, when all
of our efforts are combined and realized.

Good posts.....


Kind Regards

Chris Evans








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 12

               Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens -

From: Dan Bright <dan@zaziork.com>
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 22:03:20 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 17:41:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens -


>From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 14:56:50 +0100
>Subject: Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens

>Dan and List,

>I still work for the Ministry of Defence, so I'm afraid that I
>can neither confirm nor deny the accuracy of this newspaper
>article.

>All I can say about 1956 is that I stand by my statement that no
>RAF aircrew would have been given an order to shoot down a UFO.

Hi Nick, list,

Some of you may find the following useful in your research.

I have ascertained that at present, Air defence (AD) of the UK
is conducted as part of the NATO Integrated Air Defence System
(NATINADS) [2]. This is achieved by continuous surveillance of
the airspace, detection of unusual activity and active
policing/response using interceptor aircraft. The system is
designed and optimised to counter the threat from military
aircraft, and was initially implemented to counter the Soviet
threat of the Cold War era.

I have not yet ascertained a firm date of when NATINADS was
first implemented, and it may well be that the situation was
entirely different in 1956. I will conduct further research in
this regard.

Currently, the UK Air Surveillance and Control System (ASACS)
performs the primary AD tasks under the command of NATO Combined
Air Operation Centre (CAOC) 9 located at RAF High Wycombe. The
ASACS maintains a Recognised Air Picture based on inputs from AD
ground radars, NATS air traffic control (ATC) radars, airborne
early warning aircraft and digital data links with neighbouring
NATO and French air defence organisations. Based on this
information, ASACS weapons controllers direct Quick Reaction
Alert interceptors (QRA(I)) to investigate any aircraft acting
suspiciously or presenting a threat to the UK. Command and
control of the UK ASACS and QRA(I) aircraft are assigned to NATO
to enable NATO to police the airspace on the behalf of the UK.

CAOC 9 and the UK ASACS also maintain close liaison with UK
civil and military ATC organisations, thus making early warning
of any potentially suspicious aircraft activity and exchange of
information readily achieved.

Further, a number of additional air defence arrangements have
been implemented in order to deal with the threat of 'rogue'
hijacked aircraft. Much of the detail of these arrangements
remains classified.

The Prime Ministerial authorisation that I referred to before
appears to remain the case where a _civilian_ target is
concerned. As reported in the Select Committee on Defence Sixth
Report 17 July 2002:

"In the United States the arrangements are that, if there was
time, such a decision would be taken by the President, but, if
time did not permit, it would be possible for authority to be
given by the two-star military commander level, ie by a Major-
General. We were reassured by confirmation from MoD officials
that no such procedures are in place in the UK.[65] Although we
would normally have concerns about politicians becoming involved
in individual operational decisions, this case is an exception."

Therefore, it would appear that my earlier comment in respect to
Prime Ministerial authorisation being necessary in order to
engage and destroy a military target is true in the case of a
known _civilian_ target, classified modification to this policy
not withstanding.

If NATINADS (or an earlier version of NATO control) was in
operation for UK airspace during 1956, this would mean that USAF
aircraft were operating under NATO chain of command, and not
merely under USAF or RAF ROE.

I would now like to address the following questions:

1. Was NATINADS implemented by 1956?

2. What was, and is, the NATINADS chain of command?

3. Specifically, who was, and is, authorised to order the
destruction of a military target within the NATINADS system?

4. Did and does an unidentified target constitute a military
target, in the absence of evidence of a civilian nature?

[1] Select Committee on Defence Sixth Report 17 July 2002
[2] Memorandum by the Ministry of Defence on Defence and Security
in the UK (January 2002)


Best,

Dan Bright
--
dan@theunexplained.info
www.theunexplained.info







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 12

              Re: Sci-Fi Channel Kecksberg & Rendelsham - Pope

From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 22:36:25 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 18:20:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Sci-Fi Channel Kecksberg & Rendelsham - Pope


>From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 13:34:04 -0500
>Subject: Re: Sci-Fi Channel Kecksberg & Rendelsham

>>From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk>
>>Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 17:22:46 +0100
>>Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 17:22:46 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Sci-Fi Channel Kecksberg & Rendelsham

><snip>

>>Unfortunately, time and money were exceptionally tight, and in
>>the end, the only USAF witnesses to appear on the Mentorn
>>programme were Charles Halt and Jim Penniston, who have already
>>appeared on numerous documentaries. Aside from comments from
>>Lord Hill-Norton and myself, discussing the official response
>>to this incident, the programme concentrated on the views of UFO
>>researchers. Many of these interviews were fascinating, but to
>>focus on the ufologists, given the various witnesses who had
>>been prepared to appear, was a missed opportunity.

>That reminds me: one thing worth noting about the "Out of the
>Blue" documentary shown on the Sci-Fi channel last month is that
>Airman Ed Cabansag was interviewed about Rendlesham. I don't
>think he was ever interviewed before. A paper signed by him has
>been cited by debunkers as evidence that what he, Penniston, and
>Burroughs saw was the infamous lighthouse.

>Cabansag said on the program that somebody else wrote this
>report and ordered him to sign it. His real opinion is that the
>lights they followed in the forest were not from any lighthouse.
>Of course, that's just the opinion of a first-hand witness,
>which I'm sure won't carry as much weight with debunkers as the
>opinion previously attributed to him in the report he says he
>didn't write.

Lan and List,

Georgina Bruni spoke to Ed Cabansag at length in the course of
the research for her book on the Bentwaters case, You Can't Tell
The People. She devotes a chapter to his story (pages 187-197).

Georgina raises an interesting point about the five USAF witness
statements (Penniston, Burroughs, Cabansag, Buran and Chandler),
all of which are featured in her book, pointing out that she was
told by Special Agent Wayne Persinger that the Air Force Office
of Special Investigations would always take handwritten
statements, so the witnesses couldn't claim they'd been forged.
Persinger wondered why Halt took statements, and who typed them.
The only statement to be handwritten was that of John Burroughs,
though Jim Penniston's statement included some drawings of the
craft and some symbols he saw on its side.

Cabansag told Georgina:

"The only thing that I signed was for Colonel Halt. I didn't
type anything out. Maybe someone else did it and asked me to
sign it. Besides, I couldn't type, I had never used a typewriter
before. I don't even remember what I signed. I was so nervous, I
just signed it. I don't remember talking to Halt, I remember
sitting in his office in fear of Halt. I was fresh from school."


Best wishes,

Nick Pope








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 12

                 Pop Culture's Encounters Of The Alien Kind

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 18:34:04 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 18:34:04 -0400
Subject: Pop Culture's Encounters Of The Alien Kind

http://www.torontostar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?GXHC_gx_session_id_=3De2f=
8d1a5d3ae9edf&pagename=3Dthestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=3DArticle&cid=3D1057=
832582678&call_pageid=3D968867495754&col=3D969483191630

Jul. 12, 2003. 10:24 AM

Pop Culture's Encounters Of The Alien Kind

Vinay Menon

If aliens are among us, chances are they've stopped watching
television.

Who wants to travel millions of light years to be portrayed as
an insidious annihilator or bumbling imbecile? Who wants to come
in peace only to be accused of planetary conquest by a bunch of
paranoid homo sapiens?

And who wants to be associated with Alf or the Great Gazoo or,
most distressing, John Lithgow?

Intergalactic roamers once knew the worst place to have saucer
trouble was over a cornfield on Planet Earth. Because as soon as
you touched down, amid a time-halting flash of white light, some
hapless farmer would inevitably bolt into the shadows, screaming
at the moon while begging you not to probe his bodily orifices.

In this age of irony and celebrity, things have changed.

If a spaceship were to land in Central Park today, the only
commotion would be an enthusiastic horde of New Yorkers crowding
the glittering craft while demanding autographs and pictures
with the startled visitors.

We've come a long, long way since 1938, when Orson Welles aired
his famous "War Of The Worlds" radio dramatization and ignited a
mass panic. And, in part, this blas=E9 attitude toward the
extraterrestrial question is a by-product of popular culture's
unrelenting obsession ever since.

Over the last 50 years, alien portrayal, whether as good or evil
entities, has been linked to broader commentary on society and
culture. As you might expect, aliens are then either vilified or
glorified depending on the spirit of the time... The Day The
Earth Stood Still, Invaders From Mars, Close Encounters Of The
Third Kind, Alien, E.T.: The Extraterrestrial, Independence Day.

Alienated, a new Canadian comedy that premiered this week on
Space, uses the abduction narrative as a launch pad for more
terrestrial stories. After being abducted by aliens, the already
dysfunctional Blundell family must cope with new impulses that
are as bizarre as they are amusing.

Taken, Steven Spielberg's 10-part epic miniseries that's airing
on CBC this summer, is a shining example of the Benign Alien.
What's most fascinating about Taken is how closely it hews to
the actual UFO mythology while presenting a possible explanation
for alien visits.

Screenwriter Leslie Bohem anchors the sprawling narrative with
several significant ufological names and places... Roswell,
Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Groom Lake, Betty and Barney
Hill.

This ability to fictionalize popular mythology is what made The
X-Files such a compelling program in its early years. Chris
Carter's show also inspired several imitators, including Roswell
and Dark Skies.

The predominant theme of The X-Files was government conspiracy.
The truth was out there. They were keeping it from Us.

Recently, the American Sci Fi Channel... apparently embodied with
the spirit of X-Files' Fox Mulder... has started lobbying the
U.S. government for more UFO disclosure. It's even considering
going to court to have certain top secret documents
declassified.

(Somewhere in the Zeta Reticuli, a long distance telepathic call
is being placed to Johnnie Cochrane.)

An anecdote, apocryphal or not, that has circulated through UFO
circles for years concerns a 1982 screening of E.T. at the White
House, where president Ronald Reagan was reported to have told
director Steven Spielberg: "There are probably only six people
in this room who know how true this is."

In the documentary Area 51: The Real Story, which aired on
Discovery Civilization this week, we learn U.S. military
officials were asked to consult on Independence Day. They asked
that all references to "Area 51" be excised from the script and
then declined to participate when their request was rejected.

And people wonder how conspiracies get started.

It's interesting to note how alien portrayal on television and
film has swung like a pendulum since World War II when people,
for obvious reasons, started gazing into the sky while expecting
the worst.

In the '40s and '50s, government conspiracies played only a
marginal role in the stories. The emphasis was on the Unknown
Alien.

By the '60s, as the counterculture surged to life, aliens were
less prevalent, but had become somewhat menacing and
treacherous: Dangerous Alien. In general, the '70s ushered in an
age of the God Alien... gossamer beings imbued with quasi-
religious qualities.

This would hold true in the '80s, only now the government seemed
to know everything and maintained a deadly force policy of
telling us nothing. There was a new emphasis on abduction, as
seen in films like Fire In The Sky. Abduction books such as
Intruders and Communion were also creating pop cultural waves.
(Can the abduction phenomenon be traced back to the Flash Gordon
comic of the '30s? Just wondering.)

Predictably, the blockbuster, special-effects '90s brought a
return of the Evil Alien, hell-bent on obliterating the world.
(To get the full pendulum effect, watch Close Encounters Of The
Third Kind and Independence Day back to back.)

But, dear aliens, what you should find most offensive is the
physical stereotyping that has survived the ages: Those wrap-
around insect eyes. The matte gray skin tone. The ridiculously
oversized heads. The tiny bodies neatly outfitted in silver
jumpsuits.

You should also consider starting a petition against "alien
sitcoms"... My Favorite Martian, Mork & Mindy, My Parents Are
Aliens, Third Rock From the Sun... a subgenre that created the
regrettable Comic Alien.

Because hearing "ShazBot" or "Nanoo Nanoo" one too many times
would prompt even the most peaceful alien to wipe out
civilization as we know it.






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 13

                   Flying Saucers From The 4th Dimension?

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 17:25:16 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 22:02:09 -0400
Subject: Flying Saucers From The 4th Dimension?


Semi-random thoughts on UFOs from my blog:

Reading "Spaceland" [by mathematician/SF writer Rudy Rucker] has
caused me to view some UFO reports in a new light. Apparent
"vehicles" that seem to change shape while in the air may not be
spacecraft at all, but cross-sections of four-dimensional
objects that bisect familiar 3-D reality. For example, a 3-D
cross section of a 4-D tube would appear spherical. And if the
tube was irregular in shape, we would expect it to "change
shape" in our three dimensions as it moved, much how a sphere
passing through a two-dimensional plane would appear like a
rapidly growing disk to any watching Flatlanders.

There's at least one good multiple-witness case on record that
makes sense if the UFOs seen were 4-D objects (or a single 4-D
object) occurring at right angles to our three spatial
dimensions. The pilots involved described the shape-changing
objects as "flying jellyfish" -- pretty much what one would
expect a 4-D phenomenon to look like if it happened to move
through three-dimensional space.

The slightly unnerving aspect to this theory is that it implies
that we literally coexist with the UFO intelligence (if it is,
in fact, intelligent). But we're unable to see it unless it
happens to intersect with us. And even then we're limited to
glimpsing tantalizing cross-sections; our 3-D minds must turn to
mathematical esoterica to reconstruct what the invading object/s
actually look like. (In "Spaceland," Rucker does an excellent
job of showing us how bewildering a four-dimensional landscape
would appear to a 3-D observor. In short: Gnarly!)

Summing up: A hidden world with four spatial dimensions might
account for some UFO sightings. The oft-reported lenticular
shape may be a clue as to what these 4-D manifestations really
look like. This theory also conveniently disposes of the
supposed incredible distances extraterrestrial UFOs would
presumably have to cross in order to reach us. It also resonates
with Dr. Jacques Vallee's idea of a vast, intersecting
"multiverse."

posted by Mac at 7/12/2003 07:04:03 PM

=====
>Mac Tonnies (macbot@yahoo.com)

Explore MTVI @ http://www.mactonnies.com

Posthuman Blues: http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com (daily blog)







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 13

                       Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 21:41:34 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 22:03:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Kaeser


>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 16:46:44 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
>Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants'

<snip>

>Concerns about costs should never be an excuse for not trying to
>have tests done on something that may have great significance to
>us all. You simply have to ask.

Without getting too deeply involved in a debate here, I would
make a couple of comments. I would certainly agree that every
effort should be made to have proper analysis performed on
anything that is thought to be anomalous, and basic scientific
curiosity would play a role in this for sure. However, some
tests are not simple and involve equipment that may not belong
to the researcher, and the owners of that equipment may or may
not want it used. Sometimes testing can be performed on "off
hours", but that's not always publishable. I would like to note
that I'm making this as a general comment and not specifically
in relation to the testing performed by NIDS and Dr. Leir.

There are a number of scientists who express an interest in this
field at a personal level, but at a professional level won't
allow their names to become associated with it. There is a
stigma that comes with this field that most scientists fear,
regardless of how they feel about the subject. Again, this is
not always true, but it is a significant problem in getting
scientific support.

>Fellow ufologist Grant Cameron possesses a very revealing audio
>cassette recording of an interview by Wilbert B. Smith's key
>'metals man' about the much larger quanitities of UFO hardware
>that is not in the public domain which has been positively
>determined to be ET in origin. For this reason, one is wrong to
>feel that many top labs would want to protect their reputation
>by refusing to perform analytical tests on such controversial ET
>artifacts when it is likely that they may have secretly been
>involved with other equally controversial stuff in the past,
>including UFO physical evidence studies.

I have always found Wilbert Smith's involvement in this genre to
be very interesting. I'm not familiar with the tape you mention,
but if there is evidence to back up these claims then we have
the "smoking gun" that we've all been looking for. If no
independent evidence exists, then we're left with another
anecdotal claim with nothing to back it up.

I'm afraid I don't see how his claim supports the idea that top
labs wouldn't care about their reputation. Obviously, if a lab
has been contracted to perform secret analysis, then there's no
problem regarding their reputation since they're not going to
talk or publish anything about it anyway. That's not the type of
analysis that going to help this field of research advance
itself.


Steve








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 13

               Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens -

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net>
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 19:12:44 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 22:05:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens -


>From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 16:19:10 -0400
>Subject: Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Alien

>>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net>
>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 09:50:08 -0700
>>Subject: Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens

>Gad! Ramey was Director of Operations on the Air Staff in
>Washington, D. C. That makes him Stamford's superior. He was not
>"operations officer for the Air Defense Command." There is a
>huge difference! Ramey had over staff responsibility for all
>operations involving all commands of the USAF including the Air
>Defense Command.

Sorry for the incorrect wording in my post. I had his position
right on my website.

>Ramey's fumbling around at the press conference shows that he
>had little knowledge or was not thoroughly briefed on the
>situation.

Both Ramey and Samford were fumbling in front of the large
collection of reporters, but was it for lack of knowledge or
they were just fumbling for explanations that they thought they
might get away with? Ramey himself was quoted as saying that the
Air Force had been forced to come up with some "fast
explanations" to dispel public hysteria. Samford and Ramey were
largely improvising during a hastily called press conference.

Whatever, it is a fact that the Air Force tried to represent
Samford and Ramey as their two top UFO experts, according to the
newspapers. Several days later, Ramey appeared on CBS TV on a
Sunday news program and was grilled by reporters. AP referred to
him as the Air Force's "saucer man." Ramey was also said to be
the man currently in charge of the Air Force's investigation
into all the sightings. According to AP, Ramey added he had been
reviewing reports for the previous six years (which, if
accurately quoted, means clear back to 1946, not 1947).

Unless this was just PR to burnish Ramey's image, he knew a
great deal more about the subject than you are suggesting.

For the AP account of his CBS appearance and also another one
from the New York Herald-Tribune (just added), see:

www.roswellproof.com/Ramey_1952.html

Main essay at:

www.roswellproof.com/Ramey_and_ufos.html


David Rudiak








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 13

                       Puerto Rico Sighting - 06-2003

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 22:08:59 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 22:26:46 -0400
Subject: Puerto Rico Sighting - 06-2003


SE Coast of Puerto Rico

Date:  June ?, 2003
Time:  approx: 11:00 p.m.

Dear Brian Vike

My wife and I live on the SE coast of Puerto Rico. I am a former
U.S. Infantry officer, and 3,000 hour commercial pilot.  We are
in the habit of sitting on our roof at night talking and looking
at the sky- it's cooler & breezier up there, and less buggy.

About 3 months ago we had an interesting experience that I'd
like you to comment on, if possible.

At about 11 p.m. on a clear night, we both became aware,
simultaneously, of 3 ruby-red lights, bright and distinctly
visible, like car tail-lights or red aircraft nav lights,
approaching us from south to north, right to left as we viewed
them, in a symmetric V formation, one leading and two trailing.
After 3 seconds of this motion, the 3 lights diverged, the lead
light continuing straight, each of the trailing lights turning
90 degrees away from the original direction of motion. The
lights passed more or less overhead as they made this
divergence, then they didn't fade away into the distance but
simply vanished out of sight in about  2 seconds. Literally,
like poof, they're gone. It was stunning!

It was a clear night with no other air traffic. The experience
lasted 5 seconds, and we both subsequently agreed that we had
observed exactly the same phenomenon. There was absolutely no
sound, and no other lights visible. There was no way of judging
altitude of the lights, but we had the "impression" that they
were several thousand feet above sea level, and that the rate of
movement must have been extremely rapid. I have seen    F-4s fly
directly overhead, and have observed a very large number of
other aircraft movement over the years, and I can tell you
without hesitation that those 3 lights were moving significantly
faster than any aircraft in my experience, and in complete
silence.

If you care to comment, I'm curious if this account sounds
familiar to you, which is to ask, have other people witnessed
anything similar? And what do you suppose those bright red
lights were attached to??

Thanks, and cheers!

-----

(HBCC UFO has deleted the witnesses personal information)

I would like to thank this witness for the report.


Brian Vike
HBCC UFO Research








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 13

                    Re: What Is Real In Ufology - Hebert

From: Amy Hebert <amyhebert@sbcglobal.net>
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 07:13:54 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 22:30:00 -0400
Subject: Re: What Is Real In Ufology - Hebert


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:17:29 -0300
>Subject: Re: What Is Real In Ufology

>>From: Amy Hebert <amyhebert@sbcglobal.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:58:52 -0500
>>Subject: Re: What Is Real In Ufology
<snip>

>>Perceptions of reality and stimuli vary from one person to the
>>next just as what's 'real' and not real is subject to each
>>person's interpretation.

>I can hear it now... 'Why Ms. Smith, no crime was committed by
>my client at all. It's only your interpretation of reality that
>allows you to 'believe' you were raped.'

>According to your 'theory', maybe we should do away with all eye
>witness testimony altogether. I Suppose if you can find a way to
>dismiss or eliminate all those pesky eyewitnesses, then there
>wouldn't be a 'UFO' phenomenon at all - and you wouldn't have to
>worry your head over it.

>What a convenient, if not one-sided, set of beliefs. "Everybody
>else is full of it." Yeah, that works. :)

Your reply demonstrates my point exactly, John. You perceived my
comments according to your own interpretation and opinions of me
which then stimulated your response. At no point did I indicate
that we should "do away with eye witness testimony altogether".
You interpreted my statements according to _your_ perceptions of
what you thought I was saying rather than perceiving what I
actually said.

When an individual sees an object flying in the sky, whatever it
may be, the object functions as a visual stimulus to that
individual. However, the process doesn't end there. Next the
individual forms thought patterns based on his or her
personality, background and previous encounters with objects of
similar characteristics. The combination of the individual's
visual and psychological perceptions of the object determine how
the object is interpreted.

For example, one person may 'see' an airplane with a triangular
set of lights while another may 'see' a triangular-shaped UFO
with lights at each apex. Whether the object is an airplane or a
UFO, the perception of the object is always filtered through
that individual's cognitive processes. In the end, how
perceptions are interpreted are dependent on the psychological
make-up of the individual as well as what was originally seen.

Eye witnesses are important. However, even in a court of law,
the psychological make-up and orientation of a witness is
carefully examined and evaluated before a verdict is reached,
based on a preponderance of the evidence.

Just imagine what would happen, John, if every man accused of
rape by a woman was sentenced to prison based solely on the
woman's claims. I can hear it now...'Mr. Jones is hereby
sentenced to 20 years in prison for the crime of rape because
Ms. Smith believes he raped her. No need to review the character
of Ms. Smith, her psychological stability or the evidence. If
she says she was raped, we take her word for it.'

Just as Ms. Smith's claims of rape should be evaluated within
the context of the psychology of human perception, so should UFO
sighting reports be evaluated with the these same concepts in
mind.

>Thank goodness the members of the judicial branch of government
>don't agree with you. We'd have one hell of a legal system
>without the testimony of credible eye witnesses. Or is it that
>you think that only witnesses reporting sightings of UFOs are
>not to be trusted.

Are you asking me a question, John, or just misinterpreting my
comments?

I'm talking about the process of stimulus-response patterns
(according to the field of psychology) in relation to UFO
sightings and reports. John, if you would respond to the
concepts under discussion rather than take personal snipes at
me, we might be able to learn from each other.

Sincerely,

A. Hebert







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 13

                       Golden Section In Face on Mars

From: Jiri Mruzek <jirimruzek@shaw.ca>
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 05:52:41 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 22:31:47 -0400
Subject: Golden Section In Face on Mars


Golden section in the famous Face on Mars, and "my face on Mars"

Sorry, listeros, I am too tired to do anything else other than
post a link to my just finished article on the web. I hope, you
find it interesting.


Jiri Mruzek

http://www.geocities.com/jirimruzek/mafa.htm







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 13

                     Chupacabras Gets A Beating In Chile

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net>
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:39:17 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 22:35:01 -0400
Subject: Chupacabras Gets A Beating In Chile


Source: Diario "La Estrella de Valpara=EDso"
Date:   July 12, 2003

CHUPACABRAS GETS A BEATING

A couple from Vina del Mar went through a horrifying experience
after becoming aware that a strange animal, allegedly the
Chupacabras, had entered into their back yard where it attacked
the family's ducks. One of the ducks suffered a perfect
perforation in its spine; the remaining three animals
disappeared.

Most stunning for the protagonists of the event was that they
managed to face see the animal, face it and even strike it
repeatedly with a metal cart. But the intruder managed to
escape; it's escape path was not ascertained.

This strange event was recorded early Wednesday morning this
week (07/09). The witnesses were Juan Siliva Torres and Veronica
Vildosola, residents of Las Maravillas street in the town of
Santa Julia. Both were hesitant about disclosing their
experience, since they feared they would not be believed.
Curiously enought, this episode is similar to several other
similar ones recorded in different parts of the area and the
country which have been attributed to the legendary Chupacabras.

A horrible experience

Veronica Vildosola states that on the day in question, around 5
a.m., she heard strange noises: "First I heard blows on
neighboring rooftops. It was like something jumping from one
rooftop to another."

She added: "I suddenly heard something like a very heavy bird
that landed on our roof. It immediately started to scratch the
rooftop with its claws."

Faced with the fear that the animal or bird would attack the
ducks kept in the backyard or the hens in their coops, she woke
up her husband so he could go and take a look.

The attack

Juan Silva says: "Upon going outside, I saw an animal that
wasn't a dog in spite of looking like a dog. It was in a corner,
hunched over the spie of one of the ducks it had caught."

"I got closer, hurling the wrench I held in my hand against it.
But since it didn't move, I began to strike it with the handle
of a metal hand cart that was in the yard. The animal made some
strange sounds, like moans of pain. Had it been a dog, it would
have barked and yelped. But that wasn't the case." Silva adds
that the creature "had very shiny eyes."

His wife continued the story. "I was holding a stick with which
to strike what I thought was a dog. That's when I saw the
critter trying to escape. It did so in a sem-erect position, as
though walking hunched over on two legs. It looked at me and I
also saw its shiny eyes. I don't know if I was paralyzed out of
fear or for another reason."

The couple indicated that neighboring dogs began to bark like
never before.

Footprints

They stated that after realizing that the duck over which the
animal had crouched had a deep hole through which its blood had
been drained. Since the animal was caught in the act, the bird
had traces of blood over its feathers. Reporters from La
Estrella saw that the attacked bird had an orifice 2 centimeters
across; it was a perfect incision, as though created by a
precision instrument. The family noted that three ducks had
disappeared. "We found a wing belonging to one of them, but the
other two we couldn't find, even after going out to the street
and looking for it.

But the mysterious creature's escape was also a subject of high
strangeness for the protagonists of this event. "Later on, we
tried to see which way the animal could have escaped, but we
didn't find any point through which it could've crossed. We
think it could have only flown away," said the woman.

They noted that the animal only left some claw marks on the
dirt. "These don't match dog paws either," stated Juan Silva.

Valpara=EDso, Vina del Mar and Quillota have been the scene for
similar episodes in recent years. No logical explanation has
hitherto been found for them. For this reason, those affected by
poultry deaths have ascribed the attack to the alleged
Chupacabras.

Furthermore, the case recorded in Santa Julia coincides in
several aspects with the two latest ones known in Quillota. One
of them is that the creature appears during the early morning
hours, jumping from rooftop to rooftop. The other is that when
faced with humans, these notice strange eye-glow which has even
left them paralyzed.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Translation (C) 2003 Scott Corrales Institute of Hispanic Ufology (IHU)
Special thanks to Gloria Coluchi






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 13

                         Re: Greg Long? - Stockstill

From: Bill Stockstill <size14d@bigfoot.com>
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:42:35 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 22:36:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Greg Long? - Stockstill



>From: SMiles Lewis <miles@elfis.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 21:20:32 -0500
>Subject: Re: Greg Long? - Lewis

>For some reason the URL I included in my original reply to your
>post was dropped:

>>Donate away... download what you can hear...

>http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.nwmyst.com


SMiles and Katlhleen:

This site is exactly what I was looking for! Thanks. Now I can
enjoy Greg's stories again.

Glad to hear that Greg is doing well. No need to contact him.
But if you do run into him again Katlhleen let him know his work
is missed.


Bill






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 13

                      Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Bourdais

From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr>
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 17:21:15 +0200
Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 22:58:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Bourdais


>From: Eric Jacobson <ejacobson74@comcast.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 21:57:02 -0400
>Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants'

>>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:22:47 +0200
>>Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants'

<snip>

>>Secondly, you misquote me. The metallurgist that I know examined
>>the chemical composition of the metallic fragment, not just
>>"looked at it". This composition was determined in a competent
>>laboratory, New Mexico Tech.

>>That is is scientific research.

>>What is unscientific, in my opinion, is to reject the findings
>>and decide that there is nothing there.

>Yes but the point is that it is not scientifically adequate to
>have any one specialist examine a specimen. It takes around half
>a dozen micro-particle ID specialists to determine that such a
>particle in not a well-known terrestrial object.
>
>The opinion of a single metalurgist is not adequate.


Eric,

First, It was not the opinion of only one metallurgist - Los
Alamos National Lab, with a study which must have contained
something (not published) since Colonel Alexander and NIDS
decided to proceed with another analysis, at New Mexico Tech.

After those two labs, other scientific studies have been made,
on more implants, with interesting findings published partially
in a series of articles (see bibliography in my study). But it
is true that we are still waiting for a complete study in a
scientific review.

Secondly, it has not been claimed that theses objects were of
extraterrestrial origin. Only that they had  very unusual
composition, structure and properties.


Gildas Bourdais







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 13

                        Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 13:07:15 -0300
Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 22:59:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Velez


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:56:37 -0400
>Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants'

>>From: Chris Evans <chrisevans@zoominternet.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:32:19 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants'

><snip>

>>...But the point is this: There is a great misconception that
>>says, "If samples are not exotic and seemingly otherworldly,
>>then they cannot - therefore - be used by ETs.

>I think the point is that only samples that are "otherworldly"
>(and I suppose we're talking about isotopes here) would be
>indicative of visitation by ETs. However, that would likely
>have to be supported by other circumstances or evidence for wide
>acceptance as "proof". I've not heard anyone make the
>suggestion that visitors from space (or elsewhere) would only
>use exotic materials that cannot be found on Earth.

>I'll have to agree with John that there's no reason to continue
>cutting into people who have already become victimized, unless
>they really feel the need to get the darn thing out. Of course,
>that's a decision to be reached between the Doctor and his
>patient.

>I'm sure this line of research will continue, and it will be
>interesting to find out if some of the other samples that have
>already been collected will yield better results. Of course,
>testing is expensive and it appears that NIDS has chosen to
>utilize it's resources elsewhere.


Hello Steve, Chris, All,

Thank you both for your interest and contributions to this
thread. I wanted to add a couple of 'bits' that will hopefully
fuel interest in the subject.

If you go to the following URL at the Virtually Strange Network,

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/aic/pa2.htm

... you will find a copy of the NIDS technical analysis of the
alleged implants posted along with several interesting comments
and observations.

One of the more pointed critiques relates to the actual
analytical methods employed by NIDS. In it NIDS is accused of
having chosen tests that were far more destructive (of the
samples) than was apparently necessary.

When NIDS published the results questions were raised (then)
about 'chain of custody' procedures. Which was not all it could
have been if maintaining the integrity of the recovered objects
was high on the agenda. There were many unresolved questions and
issues regarding these 'objects' that have never been properly
addressed.

Nick Balaskas has the right idea, maybe the best candidates for
conducting a proper study of these alleged implants is the
universities. If Dr. Leir has ten of these objects and only two
have been subjected to 'formal' analysis, then it's time to
curtail any further/new surgeries until the other eight
recovered objects have been checked out by an independent group
of experts. This is all work that needs doing. And it needed to
be done yesterday.

Regards, again my thanks to Chris, Steve and all for making this
an interesting thread.


John Velez







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 13

                     FOIA Appeal To DIA General Counsel

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net>
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 15:41:13 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 23:02:16 -0400
Subject: FOIA Appeal To DIA General Counsel



To: <robert.richardson@dia.mil>


TO:   General Counsel
      ATTN: DAN-1A (FOIA)
      U. S. Defense Intelligence Agency
      Washington, DC 20340-5100

FROM: Larry W. Bryant
      3518 Martha Custis Drive
      Alexandria, VA 22302

DATE: July 13, 2003

Yowza!

In only three days' time, DIA FOIA manager Robert P. Richardson
either has (1) performed an administrative miracle (via just a
few records-search strokes on his Roswellian computer keyboard?)
or has (2) wantonly flouted both the spirit and the letter of
the U. S. Freedom of Information Act (via intentional
obfuscation and stonewalling of my FOIA request dated June 22,
2003).

Accordingly, I hereby appeal his June 25, 2003, tantamount
denial of my request -- on the ground that his putatively
magical, swift, in-depth, comprehensive, reasonable, thorough,
and exhaustive records search has all the earmarks of a ruse to
cut off at the pass any such public probe into your agency's
experience with, and accountability for, the records sought by
my request.

Specifically, Mr. Richardson's warmed-over form letter to me
(quoted below) cavalierly (if not brutally) dismisses my
requested records-search strategy by which relevant DIA
personnel (former/current/retired) can be queried as to the
records' current whereabouts/final disposition. Had Richardson
complied with that requested strategy, he most likely would've
had no need to issue to me his kiss-off form letter this early
in the FOIA game.

As you review and grant this appeal, I expect you to identify
for me the precise nature, location, and accessibility of the
"systems of records" on which Richardson supposedly has focused
his whiz-bang records search. Armed with that information, I
plan to run another ANNOUNCEMENT ad in the Fort Myer, Va.,
"Pentagram" newspaper as part of my efforts to solicit
additional sources/leads/tips about the fate of the sought-for
records. Please do your part toward helping the public "look
behind the (paper) curtain" now being reinforced by Richardson's
failure to perform an adequate records search.

Your failure to grant this appeal will contribute to the
public's growing lack of confidence in federal agencies'
compliance with FOIA-driven efforts to ferret out whatever
official UFO-related information remains hidden from public
view.

By snail-mail, I'm sending to you a signed printout of this e-
formatted letter.



LARRY W. BRYANT
Director, Washington, D.C., Office of
Citizens Against UFO Secrecy

Copies furnished to:

Mark S. Zaid, Esq. (Washington, D. C.)

Peter Robbins, Editor-in-Chief, UFOcity.com

Chairman, U. S. Senate Committee on Intelligence


TEXT OF MR. RICHARDSON'S LETTER TO L.W.B. (6/25/03)

Dear Mr. Bryant:

This responds to your request under the Freedom of Information
Act dated 22 June 2003. Therein you requested records concerning
Unidentified Flying Objects in Australia interfering with
satellites. DIA has completed a search of its systems of records
and determined that this Agency has no records responsive to the
subject of your request.

If you believe this Agency should have records responsive to
your request, you are advised that a requester may appeal,
within 60 days, DIA's attempt to locate records. You may
exercise this right by referring to case number 0498-03 and
addressing your appeal to:

Defense Intelligence Agency; ATTN: DAN-1A (FOIA) -- Washington,
DC 20340-5100.

Sincerely,

ROBERT P. RICHARDSON -- Chief, Freedom of Information Act
Staff








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 13

                         MUFON-ite Said Dead - Not!

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 00:12:55 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 23:07:20 -0400
Subject: MUFON-ite Said Dead - Not!



Source: The Greeley Tribune - Colorado

http://www.greeleytrib.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20030714/NEWS/307130002

July 14, 2003

Man Surprised To Find He'd Been Killed In Action
by Mike Peters

When he first heard about it, when his mother and brother came
home and told him, he decided he needed to check for himself.

So Gregg Rhoads, 45, of Evans went out to the Veterans Memorial,
16th Street and 35th Avenue in Greeley, and to the Vietnam era
list to look for his name.

And there is was, "Gregg Lee Rhoads." And next to his name, the
letters "KIA."

"I was surprised, I'll have to say," Rhoads said, laughing. "I
didn't know I'd been killed in action."

Rhoads, the son of well-known Greeley police officer Dusty
Rhoads and mother Henrietta, was in the Southeast Asia after the
war ended and made incursions into Cambodia. He worked on an
amphibious landing craft, delivering and picking up Marines at
various landing sites.

They were only under fire once, and Rhoads was never wounded.

The even bigger puzzle was that Rhoads' name had been on the
list for years but without the "KIA" designation.

He was in the Navy from 1975-79, then in the U.S. Naval Reserve
for six years and another four in the local Army National Guard.

He had to leave the National Guard when he was diagnosed with a
rare form of muscular dystrophy. He had the disease under
control with medication, but he has pain and involuntary spasms
at times.

Rick Wertz, who led the Veterans' Memorial project and keeps
track of the 10,000-plus names, said his records don't show the
KIA designation next to Rhoads' name. He is checking to find out
how it was added at the memorial.

Rhoads volunteers at Hospice and Palliative Care at North
Colorado Medical Center, working with the Healing Touch Program,
helping patients facing death.

"It makes me feel useful," Rhoads said.

Rhoads also is a member of the local MUFON organization, Mutual
Unidentified Flying Object Network, a group that studies the
paranormal and unexplained phenomena.

Two incidents sparked his interest in the idea. In the Navy, he
was on ship off the California coast when a large ball of
brilliant blue light swept over the ship and lit up everything
around him. It sped away and the Navy offered no explanation.
Later, on a fishing trip with his family north of Windsor, they
all saw several lights in a diamond formation fly around at a
distance, then disappear.

But right now, more than searching for unexplained things in the
sky, Rhoads would like to know the unexplained "KIA" next to his
name.

"The nurses at Hospice medically confirmed I'm alive," Rhoads
said with a smile.

"That's good news."


Staff writer Mike Peters' column about Weld County people
appears Mondays in the Tribune. His humor column, the Gnarly
Trombone, appears Saturdays.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 13

                70s UFO Causes Military Cordon & Evacuation?

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 05:22:47 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 23:10:40 -0400
Subject: 70s UFO Causes Military Cordon & Evacuation?

70s UFO reportedly causes military cordon & evacuation in Wales

The paragraph below was copied from a July 14, 2003 news article
located at:

http://icnorthwales.icnetwork.co.uk/news/regionalnews/content_objectid=13175637_
method=full_siteid=50142_headline=-Is-anybody-out-there--name_page.html

Would anyone have additional information on this alleged event?

Thanks - ky

--

"ONE of the most famous UFO sightings in Wales occurred in the
village of Llangernyw, Conwy, in the 1970s. After farmers
reported seeing strange lights in the sky military personnel
cordoned parts of the village off and evacuated civillians from
the area. The incident attracted worldwide interest from
ufologists, but to this day the Ministry of Defence has never
come up with an explanation of what the lights were or why the
village was closed off."








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 14

                    Witnesses To 'Falling Human' Mistaken

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 05:32:20 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 11:14:52 -0400
Subject: Witnesses To 'Falling Human' Mistaken


Source: Expatica News Service

http://www.expatica.com/index.asp?pad=3D2,18,&item_id=3D32649

8 July 2003


'Falling body' probably an eagle

AMSTERDAM--Police have definitely called off investigations into
what witnesses described as a "falling body" and have backed a
theory suggesting that what several people saw was an eagle
diving for prey.

The investigation was launched after several residents of the
central Dutch town of Hoenderloo, near Apeldoorn, recently said
they saw what looked like a body fall out of the sky into a
nearby nature reserve.

Police conducted mid-June a search of the area on foot and by
helicopter, but were unable to find a body. Witnesses first
mentioned the sighting on 18 June, but a search of the area was
not started until the morning of 20 June.

No air traffic accidents or missing persons reports have been
lodged with authorities.

Police had previously announced the investigation had been
called off, but had kept the possibility open that a body might
be found.

It was suggested that a stowaway had fallen out of a plane, but
police later ruled that theory out because planes do not
generally open their landing gear above the region where the
sighting took place.

After ruling out all possibilities, police said on Tuesday the
"falling body" must be attributed to a false sighting and said
authorities had decided to offically err on the side of a theory
suggesting the body could have been a Short-toed Eagle.

Various organisations have said if diving for prey, the eagle
could be mistaken for a human body. Several Short-toed Eagle
nests are known to be in De Veluwe nature reserve.


[=A9 Novum Nieuws 2003]








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 14

                Re: Flying Saucers From The 4th Dimension? -

From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk>
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 15:35:53 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 11:17:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Flying Saucers From The 4th Dimension? -


>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 17:25:16 -0700 (PDT)
>Subject: Flying Saucers From The 4th Dimension?

>Semi-random thoughts on UFOs from my blog:

>Reading "Spaceland" [by mathematician/SF writer Rudy Rucker] has
>caused me to view some UFO reports in a new light. Apparent
>"vehicles" that seem to change shape while in the air may not be
>spacecraft at all, but cross-sections of four-dimensional
>objects that bisect familiar 3-D reality. For example, a 3-D

<snip>

We have crossed swords on other issues in the past, Mac, but on
this point I am in full agreement with you. Any solution to
truly exotic UFO events need not neccessarily be
extraterrestrial.

Another possible cause could be either artificially or naturally
generated distortion of time. I think that both hypotheses are
equally as valid as the ETH, and there are probably several
other equally valid hypotheses. One favourite argument of the
pro-ETH camp is that the ETH cannot be disproved. The same
argument applies to the view held by a minority of ufologists
that UFOs and "aliens" are manifestions of evil (Demons).

The ETH is so popular in my opinion because it is easy for us to
conceptualise, and has some basis in existing physical
knowledge.


Regards,

Joe







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 14

                        BBC Suffolk Hoaxed By Conde?

From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 15:09:59 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 11:21:26 -0400
Subject: BBC Suffolk Hoaxed By Conde?


BBC - Victim Of A Hoax?
Hoaxer admitted he was not responsible for incident

Listmembers, I realise I have posted some of this information
previously, but here it is intact, and permission is granted to
use it freely.

The BBC recently went to the expense of making a TV documentary
about the famous Rendlesham Forest mystery, producing  witness
Kevin Conde who claimed to have hoaxed the incident. They had no
evidence to support his claims, so why didn't they do their
research?

There's no doubt that Britain's Rendlesham Forest incident is
now firmly established as one of the most famous cases in UFO
history, second only to the famous Roswell incident. But as with
Roswell, Rendlesham has its fair share of debunkers.

The Evidence Rendlesham is a truly fascinating case involving
UFO encounters that took place in Suffolk during Christmas week
1980, on the perimeter of RAF Woodbridge. Along with its sister
base, RAF Bentwaters, Woodbridge was one of a number of British
military sites that were leased to the USAF during the Cold War.

Witnesses to the UFO events include both military and civilian,
and there is an abundance of evidence to suggest that something
`unidentified' landed in the forest during that week. This
evidence includes an official USAF memorandum (dated January
1981) by the then Deputy Base Commander Lt Colonel Charles Halt,
which was dispatched to the Ministry of Defence  (MOD). It makes
fascinating reading, describing the incidents and UFOs in some
detail. There's also Halt's audio tape recording of his own
encounter, made on thenight he went out to the forest to
investigate the UFOs.

There are several USAF witness statements made in January 1981,
which include detailed sketches of the location and the UFOs,
and USAF photographs of the initial landing site, which show
three ground depressions formed in a triangular pattern. Add to
this the numerous witness testimonies, and the fact that Admiral
of the Fleet Lord Hill-Norton put 16 Questions to the House
Lords (see Hansard) and more recently the release of the MOD's
own file on the case, and it's plain to see that this is no
ordinary UFO case.

The Facts v The Critics Over the years critics have offered
various theories for what could have happened during that week,
the most irritating being `the lighthouse theory'. For almost
twenty years the sceptics insisted that the UFOs were nothing
more than the beam from the Orfordness lighthouse, situated five
miles in the distance, and the marks on the ground (reported by
the witnesses) were mere animal scratches. Then there was the
lightship theory pertaining to the Shipwash lightship some miles
out at sea.

However, these theories were squashed when recently uncovered
USAF photographs taken the morning after the initial incident,
were discovered. These amazing photographs feature the landing
site with three ground indentations formed in a triangular
pattern, as well as the scuffed up area just off centre, which
was measured and described in Colonel Halt's tape recording. One
photograph in particular features a USAF captain and a British
police officer actually examining the landing site.

Until this evidence surfaced, debunkers, and indeed sceptics had
dismissed the testimony of military witnesses, insisting there
was no proof that something had landed in the forest. Although
most of the sceptics quietly and shyly withdrew, debunkers
refused to acknowledge this newfound evidence and persisted in
believing the lighthouse was still responsible. Some even tried
to find more mundane theories. So what happened? Well, there was
the theory that the lights were coming from a tractor. But who
would normally operate such a vehicle in the early hours of the
morning? When believers in this case are accused of being
cranky, my argument is that at least we don't believe in science
fiction.

Serious researchers take the case as a whole, examine all the
evidence, interview witnesses, go after paper trails and pester
officials. But debunkers generally prefer to take one or two
pieces of a case, those which suit their theories, and like a
Scrooge, cling onto it, dismissing first hand witness accounts,
debunking Halt's official memorandum and audio recording, and
ignoring recently discovered USAF photographs. In fact they have
problems with any material that contradicts their cause.

So the USAF photographs which of course destroys all theories
that it was anything to do with a lighthouse, lightship or
tractor, are never mentioned. They simply do not exist! The
reason for this blackout is because if they were forced to pay
attention to this vital evidence it would make their theories
appear even more ridiculous. I admit I'm sceptical of their
theories. I mean, who would believe that a tractor, lighthouse
or lightship could travel across the sky and land in the middle
of a dense forest, fooling trained USAF personnel into believing
they were seeing a UFO.

And what about the ground indentations, which are shown to be
exactly as the witnesses described all those years ago? Three
indentations several feet apart in a perfectly formed triangular
pattern, far too big to be animal paw prints and too well formed
to be animal scratchings. I believe we are not alone in the
universe, but I certainly don't believe that Dr Who style
lighthouses and giant mythological creatures with three feet are
responsible for the Rendlesham UFO case. And I imagine that
Colonel Halt and all the military witnesses, as well as MOD
Intelligence Staff, and countless others, are of the same
opinion.

Kevin Conde's Testimony But now the debunkers have found a new
hero who could have come straight out of a Boy's Own comic. They
are no longer following the lighthouse trail, but instead have
turned their attention to a battered police car. Their hero has
been encouraged to go public with an even more incredible story
than we have ever heard before. This latest attempt to discredit
the Rendlesham Forest case comes in the form of a practical joke
allegedly played by former US airman Kevin Conde, who claims he
was stationed at RAF Bentwaters/Woodbridge in 1980. According to
Conde, who retired as a Technical Sergeant, he was bored one
evening and decided to play on prank on one of his colleagues.

Conde's story was recently featured in a documentary made for
INSIDE OUT, a Suffolk BBC TV station. Michael Hanlon of the
Daily Mail newspaper then picked up the story. Hanlon
interviewed Conde, who told the journalist that the incident was
nothing more than a practical joke on his part. This is quite a
statement!

Considering I spent three years investigating the incident,
interviewed hundreds of people involved, and wrote a book about
the case, I was, as I told the journalist, 'Amazed,' pointing
out the evidence for the case, which he duly printed. And as
Nick Pope states in the article, "Frankly, there are a lot of
people retrospectively trying to write themselves into the
story."

Conde's claim to fame is that he drove a battered 1979 Plymouth
Volare standard issue American police car down the taxiway,
where he stuck red and green lenses on the spotlights, switched
on his PA loudspeaker, and proceeded to drive the vehicle around
in circles on the taxiway (runway) in the fog whilst at the same
time flashing his car lights. He claims this was the basis of
the famous 1980 Rendlesham Forest UFO incident.

But let's examine these outrageous claims.

1. Conde can't recall the date of his alleged prank. If this is
so then how can he possibly claim he was responsible for the
December 1980 incident? Surely knowing the exact date is
important in the first instance!

2. Conde says there was fog on the night in question, but there
was no fog during any of the events. Of course several witnesses
reported that there was a green ground mist around the UFOs, but
there was no natural fog on the runway or surrounding the base.

3. Conde says he played his loudspeaker, but doesn't define what
he played, and of course the UFOs were completely silent.

4. The car he used for the prank was a 'battered 1979 Plymouth
Volare'. But the incident took place in 1980, which means the
so-called battered police vehicle would have been less than a
year old at the time. Are we to believe that the USAF would
allow the security police to use a battered car?  And if so, why
was a fairly new car so battered?

Is this just embellishment? And if so, what does it tell us
about the rest of Conde's story?

5. Conde claims he played the prank on the taxiway [runway]. The
incident did NOT take place on or near the runway, but inside
the forest. And let us not forget that the UFO was first seen
falling into the forest, which prompted those at the East Gate,
John Burroughs and his sergeant, Bud Steffans, to think it was a
downed aircraft. The lights, of course, were not going up into
the sky, but were falling down from the sky.

6. Conde says he was unaware of the Rendlesham mystery until he
looked up his old base on a US military website. If this is the
case then how could he claim that as far as he was aware they
found nothing above background [radiation] levels?

7. When asked about the metallic spacecraft and [ground]
depressions Conde pointed out that a large helicopter had landed
the previous night, apparently with three landing skids. Conde
obviously hasn't seen or heard about the USAF photographs of the
landing site showing the three ground indentations being
examined by a British police officer and a USAF Captain. Was
there really a 'large helicopter' capable of forming three
depressions in a triangular pattern? And if so, then why would
the USAF alert the local constabulary to the landing site?
Surely a USAF captain would know if these indentations were
formed by one of their own helicopters. And why would a 'large'
helicopter land smack in the middle of the forest? But even more
incredible, how was 'a large helicopter' able to land amongst
the trees?

Kevin Conde, a part-time police officer in Sacramento, says,
"I was amazed. I had no idea about all this nonsense."

What nonsense?

He then goes on to say: "I hate to be cynical, but when I see
people making money out of this, I have to ask myself if they
are not nuts, what are they?"

I wonder if Conde has any idea how much it costs in time, effort
and money to do investigative work, and furthermore, does he
have any idea of the sacrifice, stress, frustration and God
knows what else, that the witnesses have had to endure these
past twenty three years.

Conde Exposed

Interestingly, Kevin Conde had decided that his prank wasn't
responsible for the incident long before he was interviewed by
BBC INSIDE OUT or the Daily Mail newspaper. In an I nternet
debunking newsletter he told the editor:

"This incident [hoax] occurred right after Christmas. For
reasons that are hard to explain it is my impression that I
pulled my stunt during an exercise. We would not have had an
exercise during the Christmas holiday. That is a strong
indication that my stunt is not the source of this specific
incident".

The editor could not accept the fact that Conde had decided
his hoax was not responsible.

"My personal conclusion about Kevin's prank remains unaltered;
if his hoax, or a copycat exercise, wasn't responsible for those
'beams of light', it would be an exceptional coincidence.

It was this same debunker/editor who set about promoting Conde's
story to the media, knowing only too well that it was
irresponsible.

If Conde persists in supporting his story he will need to prove
himself. And I for one am only too eager to challenge him. But
so far he has failed to respond to my questions.

For instance, what proof does Conde offer other than his own
verbal testimony? Who was the witness he claims was in the car
with him during this prank.

A glance at the BBC website INSIDE OUT reveals how most people
feel about Conde's claims. BBC Suffolk, which was the first to
feature Conde's story, should be criticised for being so naive.
For in an attempt to get an exclusive hoax story, the producers
and researchers may themselves now be victims of a prank. For
one thing is certain, Conde's story has nothing to do with
solving the Rendlesham Forest UFO case.

The contents of this e-mail may be freely used.

Georgina Bruni

georgina@easynet.co.uk
Author of You Can't Tell The People, The Definitive Account
of the Rendlesham Forest UFO Incident.
Published by Pan Macmillan





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 14

                      Re: Rendlesham UFO 'Hoax' - Bruni

From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 15:10:08 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 11:23:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Rendlesham UFO 'Hoax' - Bruni


List Members

Regarding Kevin Conde's testimony claiming he was responsible
for the Rendlesham Forest UFO hoax, here is some interesting
information from former USAF airman Kenneth Greene, who was
stationed at RAF Bentwaters/ Woodbridge. It is interesting
reading.

'First of all, Kevin Conde was a non-commissioned officer with
the rank of Staff Sergeant at the time of the incident. For him
to pull a stunt like that necessitating a security response,
especially during an 'alert' would be unprofessional and
unauthorized. If he were caught by a supervisor he would have
most likely faced Article 15 charges resulting in a demotion in
rank and other disciplinary sanctions. I do not think a person
of his status would put himself in such a position. I understand
the fact the 81st TFW was in 'alert' status at the time of the
incident is controversial, but irregardless, Conde would have
faced the same punishment if caught, alert or not.'

What Ken states here makes absolute sense. These bases were
after all NATO installations, and apart from being at the height
of the Cold War, there were at the time serious world conflicts
to consider. It makes no sense that somebody with the rank of
Staff Sergeant would want to play this sort of prank. Conde may
have played pranks but I think he has exaggerated his claims to
fit in with this case. Motive? You decide.

Ken continues:

'Flashlight theory: Conde mentions using a flashlight with
colored filters as part of the hoax. I will say that Security
Personnel were initially issued olive drab green, military '90
degree' flashlights that were equipped with four colored filters
(red, green, yellow, blue). The user would have to manually
place the colored filter in the head of the flashlight. The
flashlights were powered by two 'D' cell batteries and were
designed to be clipped to the web gear harness so the beam of
the flashlight would be facing out away from the body, hence the
'90 degree' design. The purpose of the red colored filter was to
provide a person with low light illumination.

'For example, if I were in a combat zone at night and wanted to
read a map or other document, I would use the flashlight with
the red colored filter. This would give me just enough light to
view the map and not give my position away. I can't foresee him
using the flashlight with a red colored filter to harass the
East Gate Guard. There would not have been enough light
intensity to penetrate the mist. Most importantly, SP personnel
at BW and WB were issued special 'spark proof' flashlights.
These were black and yellow in color and were specially sealed
to prevent static electricity. They were issued to us for day to
day operations, as we worked on the flight line areas in the
close proximity of aircraft, aircraft fuels, munitions, etc.
This was obviously for safety reasons. These flashlights were
not equipped with colored filters and it was against the rules
for anyone working flightline areas to carry any other type of
flashlight. The only exception to this would be for field
maneuvers, such as our war games in Rendlesham with the East
Anglian Territorials.

Plymouth Volore: The Air Force Volare patrol vehicles were
equipped with roof mounted emergency lights. The emergency light
was a single bar unit that covered the width of the roof. The
center section was the speaker for the siren and public address
system, while the left section was a blue colored housing unit
and right section was red colored. Inside the colored housing
units were clear light bulbs mounted on a revolving plate that
rotated 360 degrees. The lights also had a parabolic reflector
mounted behind them. When the vehicle operator activated the
lights, the plates would rotate inside the colored housing
units. This would create the effect of red and blue flashing
lights. The emergency lights were not equipped with the
capability to provide external white flashing lights. I have
enclosed a picture of a 1979 Volare for your reference. Please
note this particular picture was taken at Bergstrom AFB, Texas
during the summer of 1980. This vehicle is not equipped with a
spotlight. As you are looking at the vehicle, the spotlight
housing unit would be clearly visible on the lower right hand
section of the windshield if so equipped. It is important to
note that AF vehicles are bought under government contract with
generic specifications for additional items such as emergency
lights, spotlights, etc. If this particular vehicle did not have
a spotlight, then I do not think the vehicles at BW or WB would
have had them either.

'Conde's explanation of slowly driving in circles with the
emergency lights activated does have some credibility to it, but
again what about the other nights in question? How does he
explain the fact that personnel at the BW WSA observed lights in
the sky?  I worked the security tower at BW WSA for years and
there is no way a person from BW could mistake Conde's vehicle
lights for an unexplained object. This is simply due to the fact
you could not physically see WB from BW. I know you have seen
the security tower and how tall it is. When I was up there, I
could not see anything of WB, but the reflection of the WB WSA
perimeter lights off cloud cover and that was it.'

Thanks to Kenneth Green for allowing me to use this information


Georgina Bruni








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 14

                          Re: Rendlesham UFO 'Hoax'

From: Jerry Smith <jerry.smith@ocfelections.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 10:45:15 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 11:28:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Rendlesham UFO 'Hoax'


[Non Subscriber Post]

I was stationed at RAF Woodbridge from 1979 to 1982; I worked as
a crew chief on a HH53 Jolly Green Giants (Helicopters) assigned
to the 67th ARRS, search and recovery.

I used to jog through those woods in the evening, and I have
been camping in the Boys Scouts designated camping areas on
base.

These are my opinions

***************************

"It is _impossible_ to see the lighthouse from the base because
of trees and terrain, not to mention the fact that the
lighthouse has a landward light shield that would have blocked
any direct beam in the direction of the base." - Rudiak

Okay we could not see the lighthouse, but when it was very foggy
the light of the lighthouse looked cool, they would sweep
through the air and light up the fog. I can remember driving
from the back gate many nights and seeing them. That is how I
drove home.

***************************

Did somebody drive a car around in circles on the runway, and
fool the guards?

I doubt it; they would have simply dispatched somebody to see
what was going on, or had somebody from the tower take look.

**************************

"There were indeed nuclear weapons at Bentwaters, in 1980,
however, this did not apply to the Woodbridge base." - Bruni

If there were nukes, I do not know why. We had A10's and before
that F4's neither one of those make a good platform for nuclear
weapons.

Nuclear weapons require a great deal of maintenance and ground
support. Flight crews would have to be briefed, enablers have to
be present and specially qualified MPs. In addition, they have
to be kept in a no-lone zone. If there were nuclear weapons, a
whole bunch of people would have to know about them. I never
heard a word about them in my three years there. I was cleared
for most classified material.

We did do some exercises simulating the transport of Nuclear,
Chemical and Biological weapons.

For nukes look at bases that had EF111's.

***************************

"a classified exercise carried out at Bentwaters. 'Proper Watch'
tested the procedures in place for responding to the crash of a
US transport aircraft carrying nuclear weapons." - Bruni

Yes we did, not sure how classified it was, I heard it reported
on an Ipswitch radio station. I do not remember the name of the
exercise, we all tried hard to get out of the exercise because
we had to wear the Haz-Mat suites.

****************************

Charles Halt was an idiot. I never liked or respected the man
while I was stationed there.

***************************

Okay I was there; did I hear about a UFO? Yes I did. What I
heard was some back gate guards had seen some lights and
reported it. The guy that told me about it had done so much
hashish that I never considered him a reliable source of any
kind of information. Looking back, I did not think a thing about
it.


Jerry Smith







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 14

               Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens -

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 11:01:37 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 11:30:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens -


>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net>
>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 19:12:44 -0700
>Subject: Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens

>>From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 16:19:10 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Alien

<snip>

>>Ramey's fumbling around at the press conference shows that he
>>had little knowledge or was not thoroughly briefed on the
>>situation.

>Both Ramey and Samford were fumbling in front of the large
>collection of reporters, but was it for lack of knowledge or
t>hey were just fumbling for explanations that they thought they
>might get away with? Ramey himself was quoted as saying that the
>Air Force had been forced to come up with some "fast
>explanations" to dispel public hysteria. Samford and Ramey were
l>argely improvising during a hastily called press conference.
<

Perhaps Samford was stumbling because he knew that the FBI
had been told that several percent of sightings couldn't be
explained and that some top Air Force officials were seriously
considering the interplanetary hypothesis.  This is in my UFO
FBI book and also at:

http://brumac.8k.com/1952YEAROFUFO/1952YEAROFUFO.html






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 14

             CCCRN News: Crop Circle Photo Gallery Added to Web

From: Paul Anderson <psa@cccrn.ca>
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 08:43:55 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:02:12 -0400
Subject: CCCRN News: Crop Circle Photo Gallery Added to Web


CCCRN NEWS
E-News from the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network

July 14, 2003

http://www.cccrn.ca

_____________________________


Crop Circle Photo Gallery Added to Web Site

An image gallery of some of the best shots of the Canadian crop
circles, including aerial and ground views, aesthetic details,
photographic anomalies and the people who discover and
investigate them. These are a sampling of some of the best
available images from over the years so far, many others are in
the Crop Circles in Canada Archives on the web site.

http://www.cccrn.ca

____________________________


The Prairie Circular

Want more? Subscribe to The Prairie Circular, the quarterly
print newsletter of CCCRN and keep informed with the latest
news, updates, articles, reviews and complete crop circle
coverage from the Canadian prairies and across the country...
only from CCCRN! Only $12.00 Canadian per year. Further info:

http://www.cccrn.ca/theprairiecircular.html

Current issue: Spring 2003

____________________________


CCCRN News is the e-news service of the Canadian Crop Circle
Research Network, providing e-mail updates with the latest news
and reports on the crop circle phenomenon in Canada, as well as
other information on CCCRN-related projects and events, sent
free to your e-mail

To subscribe or unsubscribe, send an e-mail with either
Subscribe CCCRN News or Unsubscribe CCCRN News in the subject
line to: cccrnnews@cccrn.ca

The Canadian Crop Circle Research Network is a non-profit
research organization which has been seriously investigating and
documenting the crop circle phenomenon and other possibly
related phenomena in Canada since 1995, creating a liason
between researchers, farmers, the public, media and scientists

C. Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, 2003









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 14

                      Congress Pressured To Probe UFOs

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:09:44 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:09:44 -0400
Subject: Congress Pressured To Probe UFOs




Source: Kentucky New Era

http://www.kentuckynewera.com/cgi-bin/view.cgi?/200307/12+straight07122003_news.
html+20030712+news

Saturday, July 12, 2003

Congress Pressured To Probe UFOs
By Cecil Herndon
editor@kentuckynewera.com

Straight & Simple

There are precious few genuine mysteries left in the world, the
rest having been explained more or less plausibly by science.

Now the Sci-Fi Channel reportedly is putting the heat on
Congress to launch a full-scale investigation of one of the few
remaining mysteries, the unidentified flying object phenomenon.

At the very least, UFO believers want the federal government to
release all the information they think it long has hidden on
space aliens and their flying machines.

Although the government in fact has issued reports of past
investigations of UFOs that concluded they don't exist, many
Americans continue to believe the government is covering up the
truth about airborne visitors from outer space.

Whether the government or its agencies actually are actually
withholding pertinent information on the subject is anyone's
guess, or at least the guess of anyone in no position to know.

The Sci-Fi Channel recently aired a two-part series on UFOs, for
the most part a rehash of old reports on the subject, including
the alleged long-ago crash of a UFO near Roswell, N.M., and the
recovery of alien bodies.

The details of that long-familiar story need no retelling here.
Suffice it to say, the alleged Roswell incident has become the
centerpiece of UFO lore. It includes the testimony of several
apparently credible witnesses.

While we are intrigued by the UFO mystery, if indeed there is
one, we've never heard a logical explanation of why the
government would hide any information it might have about them.
But, then, who knows why government agencies do many of the
things they do?

One thing seems beyond: If indeed Earth is being visited by
intelligent beings from outer space, they and their technology
are far advanced over anything known on our own home planet.

This reality prompted the following comment recently by a non-
believing TV pundit: "If these alleged beings are so far
advanced, why do they make contact only with someone named
Bubba?"

But those who claim to have seen UFOs include many besides this
world's "Bubbas." Sightings have been reported by commercial and
military pilots, astronauts, trained police observers, and even
former President Jimmy Carter. Never mind that Carter also once
reported being attacked by a rabbit.

We don't anticipate any congressional investigation of UFOs, and
we doubt one would change anyone's mind. Perhaps it's just as
well, too. People love a government conspiracy theory only
slightly less than they love a good mystery. In regard to the
UFO phenomenon, they can have it both ways.

Cecil Herndon is a columnist for the Kentucky New Era. His
column runs regularly every Wednesday and Saturday, He can be
reached at 887-3232 or at editor@kentuckynewera.com.


[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 14

                    Re: Rendlesham UFO 'Hoax' - McGonagle

From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk>
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:00:48 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 14:45:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Rendlesham UFO 'Hoax' - McGonagle


>From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 15:10:08 +0100
>Subject: Re: Rendlesham UFO 'Hoax'

<snip>

Hello Georgina & List,

I am pleased to have noticed that you have barely mentioned the
"elevated radiation readings" taken by Halt in recent posts. Do
you now accept that they aren't as relevant to the case as you
originally thought?

For anyone interested, I have written a detailed article for
"Eye" magazine which I hope will be published shortly (I am
still waiting for some copyright permissions) on the topic of
the Rendlesham radiation.

Copies of Eye can be ordered from Chris Evers:

eye@hufos1.karoo.co.uk

at a very reasonable cost. Full details of the publication are
availabe at:

http://www.hufos1.karoo.net/eye_magazine.htm


Regards,


Joe








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 14

                      Re: Rendlesham UFO 'Hoax' - Bruni

From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:42:08 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 14:48:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Rendlesham UFO 'Hoax' - Bruni


>From: Jerry Smith <jerry.smith@ocfelections.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 10:45:15 -0400
>Subject: Re: Rendlesham UFO 'Hoax'

>[Non Subscriber Post]

>I was stationed at RAF Woodbridge from 1979 to 1982; I worked as
>a crew chief on a HH53 Jolly Green Giants (Helicopters) assigned
>to the 67th ARRS, search and recovery.

>Okay we could not see the lighthouse, but when it was very foggy
>the light of the lighthouse looked cool, they would sweep
>through the air and light up the fog. I can remember driving
>from the back gate many nights and seeing them. That is how I
>drove home.

That's right. And so base personnel would have been familiar
with the lighthouse beams. I saw these myself when I visited the
forest.

>Did somebody drive a car around in circles on the runway, and
>fool the guards? I doubt it; they would have simply dispatched
>somebody to see what was going on, or had somebody from
>the tower take look.

Right. Please read the information from Kenneth Greene, who
worked in the tower.

>If there were nukes, I do not know why. We had A10's and
>before that F4's neither one of those make a good platform for
>nuclear weapons.

Please see my reply to a previous post on this subject.

>Nuclear weapons require a great deal of maintenance and ground
>support. Flight crews would have to be briefed, enablers have to
>be present and specially qualified MPs. In addition, they have
>to be kept in a no-lone zone. If there were nuclear weapons, a
>whole bunch of people would have to know about them. I never
>heard a word about them in my three years there. I was cleared
>for most classified material.

With all due respect Jerry, the UFO incident was not generally
known outside of 81st Security Police. With regard to weapons,
along with the thousands of others on the base, you would
probably not have had clearance or involvement because it was
not your area of expertise. At least that's the info I had from
those involved. It was after all, a very delicate situation.

>Charles Halt was an idiot. I never liked or respected the man
>while I was stationed there.

So the point being?


Best wishes

Georgina Bruni









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 14

                     Re: Rendlesham UFO 'Hoax' - Rudiak

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 08:53:56 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 14:50:25 -0400
Subject: Re: Rendlesham UFO 'Hoax' - Rudiak


>From: Jerry Smith <jerry.smith@ocfelections.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 10:45:15 -0400
>Subject: Re: Rendlesham UFO 'Hoax'

>[Non Subscriber Post]

>I was stationed at RAF Woodbridge from 1979 to 1982; I worked as
>a crew chief on a HH53 Jolly Green Giants (Helicopters) assigned
>to the 67th ARRS, search and recovery.

>I used to jog through those woods in the evening, and I have
>been camping in the Boys Scouts designated camping areas on
>base.

>These are my opinions

>>"It is _impossible_ to see the lighthouse from the base because
>>of trees and terrain, not to mention the fact that the
>>lighthouse has a landward light shield that would have blocked
>>any direct beam in the direction of the base." - Rudiak

>Okay we could not see the lighthouse, but when it was very foggy
>the light of the lighthouse looked cool, they would sweep
>through the air and light up the fog. I can remember driving
>from the back gate many nights and seeing them. That is how I
>drove home.

Thanks for the expert witness input.

The main point here is that although the beam (like any
searchlight beam) can be seen _indirectly_ by scattering off of
light particles, it was, in fact, _impossible_ to see the
lighthouse _directly_ from the base.  This isn't semantic hair-
splitting.  Directly means actually seeing it through or inside
the forest; indirectly means only over the tops of trees through
light scattering.

The testimony of people like Penniston on the first night is of
actually seeing the object in the forest itself from East Gate
after it dropped from the sky (not to mention Penniston's
testimony of actually seeing the object in the forest and
touching it).  This in no way, shape or form could have been the
lighthouse beam.  The beam would have had to penetrate a mile of
forest.

The only other question I have for now is about the landward
light shield on the lighthouse.  Just how far did the beam-over-
 the-trees actually extend before being blocked?  Did it reach
as far as the east runway and East Gate road entry, or did it
stop before then?


David Rudiak








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 14

                        Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Evans

From: Chris Evans <chrisevans@zoominternet.net>
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:51:11 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 14:52:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Evans


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 13:07:15 -0300
>Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants'

<snip>

>Hello Steve, Chris, All,

>Thank you both for your interest and contributions to this
>thread. I wanted to add a couple of 'bits' that will hopefully
>fuel interest in the subject.

>If you go to the following URL at the Virtually Strange Network,

>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/aic/pa2.htm

>... you will find a copy of the NIDS technical analysis of the
>alleged implants posted along with several interesting comments
>and observations.

>One of the more pointed critiques relates to the actual
>analytical methods employed by NIDS. In it NIDS is accused of
>having chosen tests that were far more destructive (of the
>samples) than was apparently necessary.

>When NIDS published the results questions were raised (then)
>about 'chain of custody' procedures. Which was not all it could
>have been if maintaining the integrity of the recovered objects
>was high on the agenda. There were many unresolved questions and
>issues regarding these 'objects' that have never been properly
>addressed.

>Nick Balaskas has the right idea, maybe the best candidates for
>conducting a proper study of these alleged implants is the
>universities. If Dr. Leir has ten of these objects and only two
>have been subjected to 'formal' analysis, then it's time to
>curtail any further/new surgeries until the other eight
>recovered objects have been checked out by an independent group
>of experts. This is all work that needs doing. And it needed to
>be done yesterday.
>
>Regards, again my thanks to Chris, Steve and all for making this
>an interesting thread.


John and List:

Well... thanks for inspiring me to actually read the reports,
and, in full detail. One of the samples, in particular, has
piqued my curiosity. However, where my interests are concerned,
I assume there are quite a few unanswered questions. For
instance, it would be helpful for me to know how close to a
nerve matrix, one of the samples was located - if not, in fact,
attached. Thus, there are several pathological questions that
would seem more pressing at this point. The material analyses
are there to be read, but possibly, the electrical and magnetic
properties could be taken a few steps further.

I believe there is plausible reason to continue evaluation of
the samples, based upon what has already been achieved. And I
must admit that there is a body of the related  material that
needs to be read and fully considered - especially, from the
medical side, and of the case histories involved, leading up to
the removals.


Kind Regards

Chris Evans

http://www.geocities.com/chrisb_evans/vs-implant.html








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 14

               Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens -

From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 13:34:2 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 14:55:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens -


>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net>
>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 19:12:44 -0700
>Subject: Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Aliens

>>From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 16:19:10 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Secret Papers Tell How RAF Hunted Alien

<snip>

>>Gad! Ramey was Director of Operations on the Air Staff in
>>Washington, D. C. That makes him Stamford's superior. He was not
>>"operations officer for the Air Defense Command." There is a
>>huge difference! Ramey had over staff responsibility for all
>>operations involving all commands of the USAF including the Air
>>Defense Command.

>Sorry for the incorrect wording in my post. I had his position
>right on my website.

>>Ramey's fumbling around at the press conference shows that he
>>had little knowledge or was not thoroughly briefed on the
>>situation.

>Both Ramey and Samford were fumbling in front of the large
>collection of reporters, but was it for lack of knowledge or
>they were just fumbling for explanations that they thought they
>might get away with? Ramey himself was quoted as saying that the
>Air Force had been forced to come up with some "fast
>explanations" to dispel public hysteria. Samford and Ramey were
>largely improvising during a hastily called press conference.

>Whatever, it is a fact that the Air Force tried to represent
>Samford and Ramey as their two top UFO experts, according to the
>newspapers. Several days later, Ramey appeared on CBS TV on a
>Sunday news program and was grilled by reporters. AP referred to
>him as the Air Force's "saucer man." Ramey was also said to be
>the man currently in charge of the Air Force's investigation
>into all the sightings. According to AP, Ramey added he had been
>reviewing reports for the previous six years (which, if
>accurately quoted, means clear back to 1946, not 1947).

>Unless this was just PR to burnish Ramey's image, he knew a
>great deal more about the subject than you are suggesting.

>For the AP account of his CBS appearance and also another one
>from the New York Herald-Tribune (just added), see:

>www.roswellproof.com/Ramey_1952.html

>Main essay at:

>www.roswellproof.com/Ramey_and_ufos.html


Of course, I think that some of the claims concerning Ramey in
and by the press are hype. However, since he was in Stamford's
chain of command, the Directorate of Intelligence should have
kept him informed of the situation. It is my contention that
UFO material may be found in the the Director of Operations'
files.

CIRVIS later moved from an intelligence project to an operations
project, again, as I have said before there may be some barking
up the wrong tree here.

Seems to me that UFO material has appeared in many unlikely
official files.



Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
http://www.project1947.com/
P. O. Box 391
Canterbury, CT 06331
(860) 546-9135







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 14

                Re: Golden Section In Face on Mars - Tonnies

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 11:36:45 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:25:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Golden Section In Face on Mars - Tonnies


>From: Jiri Mruzek <jirimruzek@shaw.ca>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 05:52:41 -0700
>Subject: Golden Section In Face on Mars

>Golden section in the famous Face on Mars, and "my
>face on Mars"

>Sorry, listeros, I am too tired to do anything else other than
>post a link to my just finished article on the web. I hope, you
>find it interesting.

>Jiri Mruzek

>http://www.geocities.com/jirimruzek/mafa.htm

One big problem: the image you used for your analysis is T.J.
Parker's "Picasso" rendering, which is heavily warped. I don't
know if Parker produced this image to placate his superiors at
JPL or if it was an innocent mistake. In any case, a properly
orthorectified version exists thanks to Mark Carlotto. You can
find it here along with various other versions:

http://www.mactonnies.com/facephotos.html


Mac







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 14

                          Secrecy News -- 07/14/03

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:43:27 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:27:58 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 07/14/03


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2003, Issue No. 59
July 14, 2003


**      CIA FIRES BACK ON BUDGET DISCLOSURE
**      THE IRAQI URANIUM BROUHAHA AND SSCI
**      BOOK: THE CIA'S RUSSIANS
**      BOOK: JOURNEY TO PEKING
**      BOOK: AUTHORITY GIVEN


CIA FIRES BACK ON BUDGET DISCLOSURE

The Central Intelligence Agency last week reiterated its
opposition to an FAS Freedom of Information Act lawsuit seeking
declassification of the intelligence budget total for fiscal
year 2002, arguing that the views of the Director of Central
Intelligence, and only his views, should decide the matter.

"Courts give 'great deference' to the judgment of the DCI for
several reasons: (1) the DCI sees 'the whole picture'; (2) the
DCI has expertise to recognize and assess potential risks to
national security that may be unrecognized by those less
knowledgeable; and (3) the DCI is charged by law with the
responsibility of making the decision whether to disclose
information," attorneys for the Agency said in a July 11
pleading.

For the same reasons, "no weight [should be given] to opinions
of persons other than the DCI when the courts review the
propriety of the DCI's classification determinations," the
pleading states.

The Agency moved with dispatch to invoke the June 17 appeals
court decision that upheld the secrecy surrounding the September
11 detainees in support of its argument for judicial deference.
Another FOIA ruling favorable to the government from July 8 was
also promptly integrated into the government's legal arsenal.

See the July 11 pleading here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/foia/2002/cia071103.html

A reply to the CIA argument is due shortly.  The case is pending
before the Honorable Ricardo M. Urbina in DC District Court.


THE IRAQI URANIUM BROUHAHA AND SSCI

The controversy over President Bush's reference in the State of
the Union address to alleged Iraqi attempts to purchase uranium
from Africa has quickly become the vehicle for larger questions
concerning White House credibility, the rationale for the war in
Iraq, and the quality of U.S. intelligence.

It is also a convenient vehicle for diversionary questions and
score-settling.

"What now concerns me most," said Sen. Pat Roberts (R-KS), chair
of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence (SSCI) "is what
appears to be a campaign of press leaks by the CIA in an effort
to discredit the President."  See Senator Roberts' July 11
statement here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2003/07/ssci071103.html

Under Sen. Roberts' closed-door policy, the Senate Intelligence
Committee seems increasingly like a mere bystander in the
current upheaval.  The key developments in the mounting
controversy have all unfolded in other venues.

But see "Roberts defends Senate committee's private review" by
Scott Rothschild in the Lawrence, Kansas Journal-World, July 12:

http://www.ljworld.com/section/stateregional/story/138342

Senator Roberts did set aside his odd aversion to the word
"investigation" to endorse a sense of the Senate resolution
adopted July 10 that "supports the thorough and expeditious
joint investigation by the Inspector General of the Department
of State and the Inspector General of Central Intelligence
Agency into the documents or other materials that the President
relied on to conclude that Iraq had attempted to obtain uranium
from Africa." See:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2003_cr/s071003.html

A selection of other official statements on the Iraqi uranium
matter can be found here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2003/07/index.html


BOOK: THE CIA'S RUSSIANS

The personality features and motivations common to the Soviet
agents who agreed to spy for the United States during the cold
war are examined in "The CIA's Russians" by the late John Limond
Hart (Naval Institute Press, 2003).

The author, a former CIA officer, based his study in part on CIA
case files which remain classified.

"The result is a highly professional analysis of a relationship
that has been left too long to novelists and sensational
journalists," wrote the late William E. Colby in the Foreword.

For more information, see:

http://www.militaryink.com/books/2003/june/1591143527.htm

Secrecy News welcomes review copies of new books on intelligence
and national security.


BOOK: JOURNEY TO PEKING

"Journey to Peking: A Secret Agent in Wartime China" by Dan
Pinck (Naval Institute Press, 2003) is the memoir of a young
Office of Strategic Services volunteer behind Japanese lines in
China during World War II.

"Dan Pinck has written one of the best autobiographies on the
life of the secret agent in the field that I have ever read:
lively, amusing, true, and well-written," wrote the late
professor Robin W. Winks in a book jacket blurb.

See:

http://www.militaryink.com/books/2003/april/1591146771.htm


BOOK: AUTHORITY GIVEN

"Authority Given" (in Hebrew: VeHaReshut Netunah, Yedioth
Aharonot Books, 2002) presents a harshly critical view of the
Palestinian Authority and its chairman Yasser Arafat written by
Israeli national security reporter Ronen Bergman of the Tel Aviv
daily Yedioth Aharonot.

Based on internal PA documents, many of which are excerpted, as
well as original reporting, the book explores corruption in the
Palestinian Authority and its links to terrorist organizations.
It includes appendices on Palestinian security services and
prominent figures in the Palestinian leadership.  See:

http://www.ybook.co.il/catalog1.asp?bID=3622485


_______________________________________________

Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood@fas.org
voice:  (202) 454-4691







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 14

                     Re: What Is Real In Ufology - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 13:14:13 -0300
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:30:45 -0400
Subject: Re: What Is Real In Ufology - Velez


>From: Amy Hebert <amyhebert@sbcglobal.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 07:13:54 -0500
>Subject: Re: What Is Real In Ufology

>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>>Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:17:29 -0300
>>Subject: Re: What Is Real In Ufology

>>>From: Amy Hebert <amyhebert@sbcglobal.net>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 18:58:52 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: What Is Real In Ufology
><snip>

>>>Perceptions of reality and stimuli vary from one person to the
>>>next just as what's 'real' and not real is subject to each
>>>person's interpretation.

>>I can hear it now... 'Why Ms. Smith, no crime was committed by
>>my client at all. It's only your interpretation of reality that
>>allows you to 'believe' you were raped.'

>>According to your 'theory', maybe we should do away with all eye
>>witness testimony altogether. I Suppose if you can find a way to
>>dismiss or eliminate all those pesky eyewitnesses, then there
>>wouldn't be a 'UFO' phenomenon at all - and you wouldn't have to
>>worry your head over it.

>>What a convenient, if not one-sided, set of beliefs. "Everybody
>>else is full of it." Yeah, that works. :)

>Your reply demonstrates my point exactly, John. You perceived my
>comments according to your own interpretation and opinions of me
>which then stimulated your response. At no point did I indicate
>that we should "do away with eye witness testimony altogether".
>You interpreted my statements according to _your_ perceptions of
>what you thought I was saying rather than perceiving what I
>actually said.

>When an individual sees an object flying in the sky, whatever it
>may be, the object functions as a visual stimulus to that
>individual. However, the process doesn't end there. Next the
>individual forms thought patterns based on his or her
>personality, background and previous encounters with objects of
>similar characteristics. The combination of the individual's
>visual and psychological perceptions of the object determine how
>the object is interpreted.

>For example, one person may 'see' an airplane with a triangular
>set of lights while another may 'see' a triangular-shaped UFO
>with lights at each apex. Whether the object is an airplane or a
>UFO, the perception of the object is always filtered through
>that individual's cognitive processes. In the end, how
>perceptions are interpreted are dependent on the psychological
>make-up of the individual as well as what was originally seen.

>Eye witnesses are important. However, even in a court of law,
>the psychological make-up and orientation of a witness is
>carefully examined and evaluated before a verdict is reached,
>based on a preponderance of the evidence.

>Just imagine what would happen, John, if every man accused of
>rape by a woman was sentenced to prison based solely on the
>woman's claims. I can hear it now...'Mr. Jones is hereby
>sentenced to 20 years in prison for the crime of rape because
>Ms. Smith believes he raped her. No need to review the character
>of Ms. Smith, her psychological stability or the evidence. If
>she says she was raped, we take her word for it.'

>Just as Ms. Smith's claims of rape should be evaluated within
>the context of the psychology of human perception, so should UFO
>sighting reports be evaluated with the these same concepts in
>mind.

>>Thank goodness the members of the judicial branch of government
>>don't agree with you. We'd have one hell of a legal system
>>without the testimony of credible eye witnesses. Or is it that
>>you think that only witnesses reporting sightings of UFOs are
>>not to be trusted.

Hello All,

Amy writes:

>Are you asking me a question, John, or just misinterpreting my
>comments?

Misinterpreting? Not al all. I hear you loud and clear. But how
else is one to respond to the list of absurd statements that you
have made?

One such statement was the following: "Some people see UFO's in
every blob, spot or blur they find in photographs or over their
house while others see UFO's in ancient art, the bible and jet
contrails."

While this may be true, you fail to mention that you are/were
one of these 'uncritical' people yourself. I recall you sending
me a photograph of some smears on a glass door that you believed
was the imprint left behind by an grey alien as it passed
through it. At the time I was a bit taken back by how gullible
you are, but here you are a few years later pointing your finger
at others of the same ilk. Amazing! Like someone who quit
smoking after many years who is overly critical of others who
still smoke. <lol>

You may currently wear the clothes of a sober skeptic, Amy.
But 'some of us' know you better than that.

>I'm talking about the process of stimulus-response patterns
>(according to the field of psychology) in relation to UFO
>sightings and reports.

Your first mistake is in considering psychology a reliable or
trustworthy science of any kind. The field of psychology is full
of more mumbo-jumbo than just about any other. I wouldn't put
much stock in what you read unless you have carefully researched
it yourself.

Question:

Please, tell me which psychological journal or treatise deals
with the stimulus-response "patterns" in relation to UFO
sightings and reports. I was unaware that any "patterns" had
been discovered or published in any text books or professional
journals. What are these "patterns" that you speak of and where
were they published? 'Who' conducted the study and how was it
done?

>John, if you would respond to the
>concepts under discussion rather than take personal snipes at
>me, we might be able to learn from each other.

'Personal snipes?' I _am_ responding to the "concepts" under
discussion. Perhaps it is _you_ who misinterpret and play slight
of hand games because of some ulterior motive or agenda. Hmmm?

I'm always honest and straight forward in my questions and
comments. Unlike yourself who tries to hide your passive/
aggressive hostility towards me behind a thin and veneer of mock
civility. How about _you_ address some of what is being said
rather than trying to paint my end as "personal" in hopes of
minimizing their impact or validity somehow.

It's a cheesy/sleazy, debate tactic.

Stop playing misdirection games with me, Amy. You did the same
thing when I asked you to consider including a few "UFOs" in
your "IFO" lesson thread. Instead of responding to the valid
points and questions I raised, you chose to misdirect attention
away from them by answering my questions with more questions and
by arguing semantics. Now you seek to do the same thing here by
labeling my comments as 'personal.' Give that nonsense a rest
will you. Why don't _you_ try responding to what is being said
rather than wasting so much energy trying to paint it all as
'personal.' Honestly, if you must know, what I feel about you
can be more accurately described as indifference.

You have to 'care' first before you can feel anger or resentment
toward someone. I simply don't know you well enough to 'care'
that much about you one way or the other. I hope that doesn't
come off as too harsh... it's just the honest truth. How's that
for "what is 'real' in ufology"? :)

Who's kidding who, Amy?


John Velez







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 14

                    UFO Sighted Near Scottish Rugby Club

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:15:45 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:15:45 -0400
Subject: UFO Sighted Near Scottish Rugby Club




Source: The Rutherglen Reformer - Lanarkshire, Scotland

http://iclanarkshire.icnetwork.co.uk/news/localnews/rutherglen/content_objectid=
13175988_method=full_siteid=50144_headline=-UFO%2DIS%2DSIGHTED%2DNEAR%2DRUGBY%2D
CLUB-name_page.html

Monday, July 14, 2003


UFO Is Sighted Near Rugby Club

Space travellers could be making Cambuslang one of their top
tourist attractions as sightings of UFOs in the area increase.

The latest incident occurred on the morning of Sunday, June 29,
close to Cambuslang Rugby Club.

A mysterious flying object was seen to hover and reflect light
for more than a minute before lifting off into the sky towards
the Castlemilk and Glasgow area.

The sighting comes only two months after The Reformer reported
that the Glasgow UFO Research Organisation (GUFORO) were still
investigating reports from three people of a similar object seen
in the area last summer.

The recent sighting was made by a medical professional in his
30s, who lives Cathkin.

He is now calling for anyone else who may have seen anything to
report what they saw.

He said: "I was looking from the back of the Cathkin High
School's ash park area towards Glasgow at around 10.15am when
something caught my eye.

"At the area near to the Cambuslang Rugby Club, I saw what at
first I thought was a plastic bag floating about on fire. But as
I looked more closely it started hovering and resembled a large
and uneven stone or rock that was reflecting light.

"It then moved towards the Springhall direction, before
ascending towards Castlemilk and then disappearing. All in all,
it must have lasted for around a minute.

"At first, I had to ask myself if I was really seeing this
thing, which was a good few metres in diameter, but I believe I
definitely saw something tangible. I wonder if anyone else saw
anything because it was a beautiful clear day."

Thomas Best of GUFORO said: "We have no idea about what this
could have been.

"It is a similar description to the ones we had from two elderly
ladies and a young lady in June last year who reported seeing a
large burning object.

"We have asked astronomers about this and they were unable to
explain it and we checked with the air traffic and their were no
aerial vehicles in the area at the time.

"There are occasions where people have made hot air balloons
which once they get to a certain height they catch fire but we
have searched the area and found no trace of any wreckage.

"Now three or four people have seen a similar object in the same
area and we would encourage people to give us a call if they see
anything.

"A photograph or a hand drawing of the object would be very
useful to us.

"I would not say the Cambuslang area is a hotspot, but there
have certainly been things seen in the sky.

"People used to be reluctant to report these things, but that is
changing now."

Strathclyde Police told The Reformer that they had received no
calls related to this sighting on the day in question.

Anyone wishing to report a UFO sighting should call the GUFORO's
24 hour hotline on 0776 3323 743. For more information on the
organisation, visit their website at:

www.geocities.com/guforo2000.


[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 14

                   North Wales' Top 10 UFO Sighting Spots

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:23:43 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:23:43 -0400
Subject: North Wales' Top 10 UFO Sighting Spots




Source: The Daily Post - North Wales

http://icnorthwales.icnetwork.co.uk/news/regionalnews/content_objectid=13175637_
method=full_siteid=50142_headline=-Is-anybody-out-there--name_page.html

Jul 14 2003

Is Anybody Out There?

Gareth Bicknell Investigates North Wales' Top 10 UFO Sighting
Spots


STRANGE lights in the sky, humanoid visitors with no faces, and
even stories of people taken to faraway planets. Since the dawn
of space travel and science fiction writing early in the 20th
century, man has been fascinated by the possibility of life on
other worlds. With films like Close Encounters of the Third Kind
and ET in the 1970s came a rapid increase in reports of flying
saucers and men from Mars. Wales in particular has become a
hotbed of evidence that we're not alone.

UNDER SURVEILLANCE

ACCORDING to reports of sightings over Denbighshire, we could be
under regular surveillance by more advanced life forms
struggling to understand our primitive earth ways. Are aliens
carrying out their own 10-year census of life on Earth,
unbeknown to the unbelieving majoirity?

In spring 1964 a woman was walking her dog in the grounds of the
haunted Denbigh Castle when the dog gave a sharp yelp. She found
the animal cowering under a beam of light in the bushes. The
woman rescued her beloved pet but felt a burning pain in her arm
as she came into contact with the light.

Ten years later two women saw a bright orange light hovering in
the sky above nearby Denbigh Hospital. A similar sighting was
also reported in 1984, and again 10 years later in 1994. Will
the visitors be returning next year?

FAMILY OUTING

ONE family claimed to have been abducted by visitors from outer
space while travelling through North Wales on November 10, 1977.
On the same night an elderly man from Llandudno had been
frightened by unusual beams of light in the sky above the Great
Orme. The family were driving near the village of Llandernog,
Denbighshire. They saw a purple triangular craft which then
swallowed up their car. The purple object seemed to vanish. The
family had lost several hours but could remember nothing about
what had taken place during that time.

Meanwhile, another man driving along the Llandernog road that
night claimed he saw a spaceship as big as a football pitch with
hundreds of bright lights emanating from it. The man whose
family were abducted was reportedly instructed by the RAF not to
speak publicly about what had happened to him.

TALENT SCOUTS

1977 was a busy year for Welsh ufologists, with a wave of
sightings over Anglesey and West Wales known to alien watchers
as the Broadhaven Triangle. On February 4 a game of football
between children at Broadhaven School was interupted when a
glowing cigar-shaped object landed in a nearby field. David
George, nine at the time, said he saw a "silver man with spiked
ears" near the craft.

On February 17 the ship was seen by one of the school's teachers
and then later in the day by two dinner ladies. One of the
dinner ladies claimed to have seen a figure climb into the craft
before it made its departure.

In the months that followed, up until June, there were numerous
sightings of flying, cigar-shaped objects in the skies above
Dyfed and Pembrokeshire. Many people reporting seeing white,
humanoid figures, with pointed, apparently faceless heads. The
cynics and those in officialdom suggested they were simply MoD
personnel in radiation suits carrying out routine training
exercises.

Were these dome-headed beings talent scouts for some
intergalactic sports academy? The same month that they landed
next to the playground kickabout in Broadhaven, the cigar-shaped
ship was also spotted by Bronwen Williams, who was teaching
girls netball during a PE class at Rhos-y-Bol school on
Anglesey.

In September the following year, a group of boys were playing
football in Llannerchymedd, Anglesey, when they saw what they
thought was a helicoptor land nearby. The boys went to
investigate, finding a small white object with a red glow stuck
in the ground where the helicopter had been. They also claimed
to have seen two hooded humanoids near the craft.

TRAVEL BACK IN TIME

MANY people put UFO sightings down to the armed forces testing
new designs and equipment, but there have been sightings in
North Wales as early as the 18th century. In 1743 William John
Lewis, a farmer from Peibio, near Holyhead, saw an object
sailing through the air above the nearby mountains long before
man had mastered flight. He claimed he had seen similar crafts
at roughly 10-year intervals.

Historian James Buckley interviewed descendants of miners from
Mold who saw a UFO in the 1880s. The men, who were struggling to
feed their families on the miserable wages they were being paid,
had gone to nearby Padeswood to collect some snares they were
using for poaching. Already tense at the prospect of being
caught stealing by the landowner, they were terrified when they
saw a large, bright, purple sphere hovering above the field. The
men ran away, but when they returned again to pick up their
snares there was a circle of scorched grass where the craft had
been.

GREAT BALLS OF FIRE

THE Egryn lights are a famous phenomenon that have baffled
people in Meiryonnydd for centuries, but in the last few decades
they have also attracted the attention of ufologists. In the
17th century balls of flame were seen crossing the sea near the
west coast of Wales. In Harlech in 1662 it was claimed that
these strange lights were setting fire to crops and barns and
infecting grass, although they seemed to do no harm to people
who were in the fields at the time.

In 1877 blue lights were seen over Pwllheli and the Dysynni
Estuary, and in the early 1900s the lights were adopted by Mary
Jones and the Revivalists as proof that God was trying to
communicate with them.

Ms Jones was widely discredited as being barking mad, but with
the increase in UFO sightings over the 20th century the lights
became a focus for people convinced of the existence of little
green men.

The lights were the subject of an investigation in Flying Saucer
Review in 1971, and have aroused alien conspiracy theorists
across the world.

FAMILIAR FACES

A WOMAN from Halkyn, Flintshire, has been visited by aliens on a
regular basis since she first saw a UFO in July 1982, according
to North Wales ufologist Margaret Fry. The woman, who was
interviewed anonymously by Mrs Fry, thought she was witnessing a
meteorite hurtling towards the earth until the large, round
object stopped over a neighbour's home. It was yellow, had two
rings around it and made a humming noise as it hovered above the
house.

Then, one night in November 1983, she was woken by a bright
light shining into her bedroom. Outside her window - 20ft off
the ground - was a face looking at her. She claims the figure,
who had a human appearance, then appeared in her room before
finally disappearing. The woman says she has been in regular
contact with people from outer space ever since.

OUT OF THIS WORLD

MANY people, known as contactees, reckon they are visited
regularly by aliens on their jaunts to our corner of the
universe. But for one young girl from Flintshire, frequent
visits from space travellers resulted in the chance-of-a-
lifetime trip to visit their home planet.

Gaynor Sutherland, from Oakenholt, claimed she was taken on the
journey by aliens she had met when she was nine. In 1976 Gaynor
was playing in fields near her home when a flying saucer landed
nearby. Two figures, which she supposed were male and female,
emerged from the ship and began to carry out what appeared to be
scientific tests on the ground.

The aliens continued to make contact with the Sutherland family
over the next few years and at times Gaynor seemed to be
possessed by the visitors and unable to control her own actions.
The girl's claims were backed up by her family, who all gave
matching descriptions of the aliens.

DANCING TO AN ALIEN TUNE

IN 1896 Welsh Folklore, by the Rev Elias Owen, recounted the
story of Dafydd Fawr, a farmer from Penrhyndeudraeth who thought
he saw a fairy dance but may actually have had a close encounter
of the third kind. Dafydd was on his way home from market when
he saw a small comet fall to the ground, followed by a hoop of
fire. Two

small figures appeared from the flaming hoop, drew a circle on
the ground and started to dance around it.

Dafydd watched amazed as more little people, both men and women,
seemed to appear from nowhere and join in the dance. The
fairies, as Dafydd supposed they were, danced for a few minutes
until the first two figures climbed back into the hoop of fire
and flew away. The rest of the fairies vanished.

Dafydd continued home, a journey which would normally take him
about 20 minutes. When he got home he found he had lost three
hours. According to writer Richard Holland the "fairy dance"
episode had all the cult hallmarks of an alien landing - a
strange object comes out of the sky, unusual humanoid figures
emerge and leave a circle imprinted in the ground, and the
incredulous earthling watches spellbound before realising he has
lost hours in what seemed like minutes.

DARING DUO

TEN years ago a Colwyn Bay woman and her boyfriend spent the
night in Valle Crucis Abbey, Llangollen, when they were
disturbed by a huge craft hovering in the sky above them. The
two had been dared to stay in the supposedly haunted ruins of
the abbey, but halfway through the night the abbey lit up around
them and, looking up, they saw a diamond-shaped object above
them, its red and yellow lights beaming down on the ancient
monastery. A group of campers also saw the ship, which stayed
for about five minutes before silently zooming off at a speed no
man-made craft would be capable of.

UNSOLVED MYSTERY

ONE of the most famous UFO sightings in Wales occurred in the
village of Llangernyw, Conwy, in the 1970s. After farmers
reported seeing strange lights in the sky military personnel
cordoned parts of the village off and evacuated civillians from
the area. The incident attracted worldwide interest from
ufologists, but to this day the Ministry of Defence has never
come up with an explanation of what the lights were or why the
village was closed off.


[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 15

                Re: 'UFO Program' At Laurentian University? -

From: Michel M. Deschamps <ufoman@interlynx.net>
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 01:42:56 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:09:51 -0400
Subject: Re: 'UFO Program' At Laurentian University? -


>From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 08:14:37 -0400
>Subject: 'UFO Program' At Laurentian University?

>A caller to an overnight talk show made a quick reference to a
>"UFO programme" (which might simply be one course) at Laurentian
>University in Sudbury, Ontario.  Anyone know if that reference
>is true?

>How common are such courses, if it is a single course? Is there
>a list of universities with such courses posted?


Eleanor,

I reside in Sudbury... and am the sole UFO expert in this
area....I will try to verify this... for you and me both.

Cordially,

Michel






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 15

                    UFO Newsclipping Service Back Issues

From: Ken Kelly <elprospero@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 02:40:23 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:24:03 -0400
Subject: UFO Newsclipping Service Back Issues


List,

For sale: set of about 100 various 'UFO Newsclipping Service'
issues from 1970s to 1990s.


Ken Kelly







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 15

                       UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 26

From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:59:01 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 12:26:42 -0400
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 26


Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor.

<Masinaigan@aol.com>
==========================

      UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 8, Number 26
July 16, 2003
Editor: Joseph Trainor

E-mail: <Masinaigan@aol.com>
Website: http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/


UFOs SIGHTED IN FRANCE

      "On the night of Friday, July 4, 2003," Fabien C.,
29, "had a cigarette outside in my garden" in Cherbourg,
in the department of Manche in western France, "and I
watched a plane passing over, when suddenly, behind the
plane, I perceived several lights of weak intensity but
moving at a high speed."
      "I immediately called my wife, and she called a
friend, who was also there, to have a look.  The friend
arrived, as well as two children, and they immediately saw
what I had seen.  The lights passed over very quickly and
overtook the Airbus jetliner without any difficulty.  It
was a very clear sky.  There were several points of light
(about 15 to 20 points of light--F.C.), coloured orange
and of a weak luminosity."
      On Sunday, June 22, 2003, at 1:07 p.m., Serge S. "saw
a UFO at Pic du Midi de Siguer, in the department of
Arioge," in southern France.  "It was a clear sky with
some scattered thick clouds.  Serge described the UFO as
'a lengthened gray spot.'  The speed and distance of the
object were 'impossible to determine.'"  (See Le Journal
de l'Ufologie for July 7, 2003.  Merci beaucoup a Robert
Fischer pour ces articles de journal.)


CIGAR-SHAPED UFO TRAILS
AN AIRLINER IN ITALY

      "An aircraft in flight was allegedly buzzed by a
missile-shaped UFO over the city of Benevento," located 80
kilometers (50 miles) northeast of Napoli (Naples).
      "This was the report made to Italian authorities by
the commander of an Alpi Eagles Fokker 100 which, at
around 8 p.m. on Wednesday, June 25, 2003, was about to
land in Napoli with 80 passengers...when the commander
called the control tower to report having observed a
strange and large, elongated 'missile-like' object, coming
towards him from the opposite direction and passing very
close underneath the plane."
      The Fokker's flight had originated in Palermo, on the
island of Sicily just south of Italy.  The claim was
investigated by Italy's National Flight Assistance Agency
and the Civil Aviation National Agency.
      "In a report filed on Thursday, June 26, 2003, the
(Fokker) commander described 'an unidentified flying
object' approaching him from an altitude of approximately
8,000 feet (2,400 meters).  It was cylindrical in form, 3
to 4 meters (10 to 13 feet) in length, white in color, and
reflected the sun's rays."
      "The object, observed by both Fokker pilots (aircraft
commander and co-pilot--J.T.) was apparently not detected
by radar systems.  For security reasons, however, the
state prosecutor in Napoli opened and investigation and
confiscated the radar recordings and (radio) dialogue
between the aircraft and the control tower."  (See the
Italian newspaper Il Giornale of Napoli for June 27, 28
and 29, 2003.  Grazie a Edoardo Russo, Renzo Cabassi e
Antonio Cuccu di Centro Italiano di Studi Ufologici (CISU)
per questo rapporto.)


MYSTERIOUS GLOWING CROSS
SEEN OVER THE AZORES

      "A strange phenomenon has been observed in the night
sky above the village of Povoacao on the island of Sao
Miguel in the Azores."  The islands, located 1,280
kilometers (800 miles) from Europe in the Atlantic Ocean,
belong to Portugal.
      "The principal witness, Nidia Fidalgo, is a high
school science teacher who immigrated to the Azores from
Portugal.  An enthusiastic amateur astronomer, she has the
custom of observing the stars at night."
      Sra. Fidalgo originally sighted the mystery object in
late April 2003.  "The phenomenon is a white cross, shaped
like a + sign, and it is static (stationary) in the night
sky.  She first saw the phenomenon at 12:30 a.m.  The sky
was starry with just a few clouds.  She said the cross
seemed to be under the clouds, but it was much too defined
for that."
      "'It was a cross painted on the sky,' Sra. Fidalgo
said, 'It was two large whitish bands perpendicularly
cross, and, in the middle, where the two bands
intersected, the colour is more clear.'"
      On Saturday, June 14, and Monday, June 16, 2003, "she
saw the cross again in the same place" over Povoacao
"between 11 p.m. and midnight."
      "In June, the cross had a homogenous white colour
and, in the middle, it is clearer."
      More recently, Sra. Fidalgo "saw the cross on
Wednesday, July 2, 2003, at about 1 a.m.  The sky had too
many clouds, but then she noticed the cross behind the
clouds."
      On Monday, July 7, 2003, "she noticed that the cross
was static (stationary) in the sky and was of an apparent
size larger than the full moon.  The cross always appears
near the zenith point."
      The appearances of the cross have generated
excitement on the island of Sao Miguel.  Witnesses think
it might be some kind of portent.  Others claim that it's
a "new Star of Bethlehem," possibly announcing the rebirth
of Jesus Christ in the Azores.  Still others refuse to go
out and look at the phenomenon, believing it is something
to be feared.  (Muito obrigado a Filipe Gomes por eso
caso.)


OVAL-SHAPED UFO SEEN IN
UPSTATE NEW YORK

      On Thursday, July 3, 2003, at 8:35 p.m., Craig S.
reported, "On Broadfield Road in Manlius, N.Y., my cousin
and I observed a wingless oval-shaped object traveling
from east to west for approximately 15 to 20 seconds
overhead, before it vanished behind the area's trees."
      "The angle of observation was from approximately 85
degrees to 50 degrees relative to the horizon.  The
relative comparative size of the object was equal to an
asprin tablet held at arm's length.  The object appeared
to be metallic and was a dark copper color and appeared to
reflect the setting sun's rays and, as a result, it had
gold highlighting.  The object emitted no sound or
contrail.  The object's speed was approximately the same
as a commercial airliner (450 miles per hour--J.T.) at a
medium cruising altitude.  The night was clear except for
a few cirrus cloud wisps, which the object was visually
below."
      "After the sighting, we stayed outside for some time
hoping we could see the object again, which we did not.
However, upon leaving at 10 p.m., we observed a white
light traveling at a very high speed from north to south
in the western sky, which covered the whole sky in
approximately 5 seconds and then disappeared."
      Manlius, N.Y. (population 4,819) is on Route 92 about
10 miles (16 kilometers) southeast of Syracuse.  (Many
thanks to John and Jenny Hoppe of UFO Wisconsin for this
report.)


DAYLIGHT DISC SPOTTED IN
NORTHEASTERN WISCONSIN

      On Saturday, July 5, 2003, at 4 p.m., the male
witness "was putting the cover on my boat" in Eagle River,
Wisconsin (population 1,443).  "I looked up into the sky
and I noticed an extremely shiny (metallic/silver) cigar-
shaped object traveling in an east to west direction.  The
object traveled at a very slow rate of speed" over the
evergreen forests of Vilas County, Wisconsin, about 25
miles (40 kilometers) south of Watersmeet, Michigan.
      "There was no contrail, no wings, no windows, no
lights or anything of a discernible nature that would
support that this was an aircraft or a balloon."
      "The object seemed to reflect the bright sun off its
surface, but then I noticed that a vertical band of light
started to appear from the front of the object and
traveled slowly to the back of the object.  This band of
light appeared every 15 seconds or so and traveled over
the surface of the object from front to rear.  The object
did not change speed, hover, or change direction at all."
      "I observed the object for about two minutes and
tracked it until it went out of sight over the treeline.
The weather conditions at the time of the sighting were
absolutely clear.  My impression is that the object was
relatively small, maybe the size of a small plane, and
that the altitude of the object was 1,000 feet (300
meters).  I am truly blown away at what I saw and can't
stop thinking about the event."  (Many thanks to John and
Jenny Hoppe of UFO Wisconsin for this report.)

UNUSUAL "RING OF SMOKE"
SEEN IN SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS


      "Moisture coming in from the Gulf of Mexico dumped
more than an inch (2.5 centimeters) of rain in parts of
San Antonio, Texas (population 1,144,646) this morning,
causing minor flooding in some areas of the city."
      "The National Weather Service in New Braunfels
recorded 1.03 inches of rain at the San Antonio
International Airport between 9 and 11 a.m." on Tuesday,
July 8, 2003.
      "In addition to the usual fare that comes with
thunderstorms, many on the city's Northeast side (Terrell
Hills and Fort Sam Houston--J.T.) witnessed an unusual
dark circle in the sky, which turned out to be a 'ring of
smoke' that a weather official said emanated from 'an
explosion caused by lightning.'"
      "Several people reported seeing the ring this morning
after a lightning bolt struck an area near North New
Braunfels Avenue and Nacogdoches Road."
      "'I saw the lightning strike out of the side of my
eye, and, when I turned to look, there was a plume of
black smoke rising up with a circle of smoke on the top.'"
Chris Yanas said in an email to the San Antonio Express-
News."
      "Chuck Fehlis, 29, an associate appraiser who works
for Blair T. Stouffer and Associates at Loop 410 and North
New Braunfels, said a co-worker told him about the ring."
      "So Fehlis took his Kodak DC5000 digital camera and
walked in front of his building to check it out."
      "Fehlis took three photos of the dark circle in the
sky at 10:44 a.m."
      "'The circle got larger and larger until it finally
started breaking up,' said Fehlis, who was among seven co-
workers looking up at the rainy sky.  'Nobody had ever
seen it before.'"
      "Fehlis forwarded the photos to the National Weather
Service in New Braunfels."
(See the San Antonio Express-News for July 8, 2003, "Inch
of rain brings minor flooding to sections of city."  Many
thanks to Jim Hickman for forwarding this newspaper
article.)


TRIANGULAR UFO SEEN BY
FOUR IN OKLAHOMA

      On Saturday, July 5, 2003, at 12:15 a.m., David,
John, Alan and one other male witness were in Mounds,
Oklahoma (population 1,143) "facing east, looking north
and east" when they saw "three white lights in a
triangular pattern moving across the sky at a very high
altitude at the same speed, some distance apart the whole
sighting."
      "A star disappeared when the object moved in front of
it, which suggested to us that this was a triangular
craft, not three separate lights.  The lights disappeared
at the same exact time after about 3 to 4 minutes of
watching them, heading south."
      "We looked around a bit to see if they'd reappear
and, sure enough, Alan said, 'Look...there they are!'
They were right in the exact spot they disappeared in,
only now they were facing in the opposite direction
(north--J.T.) but in the same triangular pattern, same
distance apart as the first time seen."
      "Witnesses included an ex-Navy man, two history buffs
who know a little about aircraft and a 4.0 (college)
student here visiting his father."
      David added, "I have to say this was the most
exciting and interesting thing that I've seen in the
skies, and I would like to speak to someone while
everything is fresh in my mind."
      Mounds, Okla. is on Alternate Highway 75 about 20
miles (32 kilometers) south of Tulsa.  (Email Form Report)


GOAT MUTILATION REPORTED
IN WILHOIT, ARIZONA

      "Authorities are trying to find out why someone
beheaded the pet goat of a Yavapai County family and
drained the body of all its blood."
      "The family reported this in the early morning hours
of (Saturday) July 5 (2003); two of the younger children
ran into the house and cried that the goat 'had no head,'
Lt. James Jarrell of the County Sheriff's Office said.
The goat and other livestock had been fed the night before
and appeared fine."
      "The body of the goat was found in its proper pen,
but the head had been cut off cleanly, with a very sharp
instrument, Jarrell said.  The children's father said
there was no blood in the pen or in surrounding areas, or
on the body of the goat; he was unable to find the head."
      "No other livestock were injured or killed."
      "The man said that, other than the head, no other
part of the goat had been removed or mutilated.  He said
he's unaware of anyone who bears grudges against him or
his family and has no idea what prompted the killing,
authorities said."
      "Authorities said that the family has asked that
their identity not be released given the bizarre nature of
the incident.  It occurred in the community of Wilhoit
(population 664), about 13 miles (20 kilometers) south of
Prescott on Arizona (Route) 89."
      "Yavapai County authorities have not received reports
of other killings of this nature."  (See the Arizona
Republic for July 11, 2003, "Family goat beheaded, has
blood drained."  Many thanks to Mike and Sheri Sedovic for
forwarding this newspaper article.)


CHUPACABRA KILLS FIFTEEN
ANIMALS IN SOUTHERN CHILE

      "Since Thursday (July 3, 2003) residents of
Pillanlelbun, a town some 15 kilometers (9 miles) from"
Temuco in southern Chile "have been shutting down
henhouses, mangers and pigpens under lock and key and
using crosses made of palqui (wood) after the news of the
mysterious deaths of 15 animals at the Ty Koyam Mini-Zoo
became known."
      "The victims of the odd event, which remains
unexplained, were six sheep imported from Somalia and nine
deer which were found dead with tear marks and bruises on
their bodies and bites on their necks.  They were
scattered throughout the location."
      "A number of hypotheses were presented at first--
everything from the descent of starving pumas (cougars or
mountain lions in the USA--J.T.)" from the Andes "to wild
dogs and the Chupacabras--which have been discarded given
that the place is completely shut (down) at night, thus
making impossible any entry by animals."
      "Local residents are concerned.  Even those who
profess not to believe think that the matter involves
Satan."
      "Alejandro Fuentes, who owns the preserve, stated
yesterday (Thursday, July 3, 2003) that the investigation
is in the hands of the (Chile's) Agriculture and Livestock
Service (Spanish acronym: SAG) of the Ninth Region as well
as the police, since the deaths of the animals represent a
loss in excess of 4 million pesos."
      "In order to avoid any new attacks, and in view of
the fact that llamas, alpacas, iguanas and apes also
occupy the premises, Alejandro Fuentes and his associates
have placed traps all around the area.  However, as of
yesterday, the beast did not attack again."
      Temuco is located about 400 kilometers (250 miles)
south of Santiago de Chile, the national capital.  (See
the Chilean newspaper La Cuarta for July 4, 2003, "Fifteen
animals slain in mini-zoo."  Muchas gracias a Scott
Corrales y Rodrigo Cuadra Salazar para eso articulo de
diario.)


BLACK HELICOPTERS APPEAR
AGAIN IN MASSACHUSETTS

      On Friday, July 4, 2003, at 11 a.m., people living on
Perryville Road in Rehoboth, Massachusetts, located 30
miles (50 kilometers) south of Boston, were startled to
see "high-flying silver jets leaving chemtrails across the
sky."  The thick, smoky trails, which resemble
conventional condensation trails or contrails, were said
to have persisted "into the early afternoon."
      The following day, Saturday, July 5, 2003, "the
silver jets" returned, but this time "they were flying
quite low and in formation.  Their engine noise was very
loud."
      In nearby South Attleboro, Mass., black helicopters
were sighted hovering over Abbott Run (creek) and its
suburban neighborhood.
      On Sunday, July 6, and Monday, July 7, 2003, "dozens
of people living in the Baker's Four Corners area of
Seekonk, Mass.," just across the town line from South
Attleboro, "saw black helicopters flying in formation.
And guess what they had on County Street (in Seekonk)?
Black helicopters!  All the while, we got more silver jets
in Rehoboth."
      The following day, a local teacher dropped by her
high school and talked "to some of the sports summer
students, and this was the lead topic of conversation."  A
male teacher "called Otis Air Force Base" on Cape Cod (now
a Massachusetts Air National Guard base--J.T.) and they
told him it was 'practice maneuvers.'"
      Curiously, Rehoboth and Seekonk were the site of
numerous black helicopter sightings during July and August
2002.  (See UFO Roundup for August 6, 2002, "Rehoboth
reports flights of black helicopters," page 8. Many thanks
to Mary Lou Jones-Drown and others for these reports.)

NEW MOTHMAN TERROR

      A near-disaster, which may be linked to Mothman, took
place two weeks ago.
      Mothman researcher Loren Coleman reported, "According
to local newspapers, on Tuesday, June 24, 2003, Bonnie
Anderson of Gallipolis, Ohio was driving across the bridge
that goes to Point Pleasant, West Virginia," where Mothman
was orginally sighted in November 1966, "when her car
mysteriously caught fire."
      Ms. Anderson "pulled off onto Route 2 (near the
Silver Bridge--L.C.) and emergency vehicles responded."
(Editor's Note:  The Silver Bridge, which spanned the Ohio
River between Gallipolis, Ohio and Point Pleasant, W.V.,
mysteriously collapsed on December 15, 1967.  The event
had been predicted by the entity known as Mothman.)
      "As you know, June 24 is special," Loren added, "The
modern era of 'flying saucers' began on June 24, 1947, and
lots of weird things to do with fires have happened on
this date," as he mentioned in his book Mothman and Other
Curious Encounters, pages 147 to 152.  (Many thanks to
Loren Coleman.)


WEIRD WEATHER REPORTED
ON SATURN

      "Astronomers say the winds of Saturn appear to be
slowing dramatically just as NASA's Cassini spacecraft
approaches the ringed gas planet" two billion miles (3.2
billion kilometers) from Earth.
      "Other researchers who study giant planets say the
finding is surprising because little change has been
detected in the winds of neighboring planets such as
Jupiter."
      "A comparison of images taken from one of the Voyager
missions in the early 1980s and photos taken by the Hubble
Space Telescope from 1996 to 2002 indicate that winds have
slowed by about 40 percent at the equator of Saturn."
      "Saturn is the solar system's windiest planet with
wind speeds peaking at 1,000 miles per hour (1,600
kilometers per hour).  With the sudden change, the peak
winds now are whipping around the planet at about 600
miles per hour (1,000 kilometers per hour)."
      "By comparison, the highest surface wind ever
recorded on Earth was a gust of 231 miles per hour (369
kilometers per hour) clocked on Mount Washington in New
Hampshire (USA) on April 12, 1934."
      "The researchers who performed the Saturn analysis
say they do not know why its winds are slowing, unlike the
steady winds on Jupiter."
      "'I think most atmospheric scientists would be
willing to be a substantial amount of money that a giant
planet's winds don't do things like this,' said the
study's co-author, Richard French, a Wellesley College
professor who has been a Hubble researcher for the past
seven years."
      "More than a century of recorded observations of
Jupiter, including Voyager and Galileo spacecraft surveys,
have shown its winds move at a relatively constant speed."
      "Recent studies of the other two gas giants in the
solar system, Uranus and Neptune, also indicate wind speed
is fairly constant, although their winds circulate in the
opposite direction of Jupiter and Saturn."
      "In the new study published in the journal Nature,
French and Agustin Sanchez Lavega of the Universidad del
Pais Vasco in Bilbao, Spain, suggest that the unique rings
of icy particles encircling Saturn may influence the wind
speed by casting shadows on the planet's surface during
the 30 Earth years it takes Saturn to make an orbit around
the sun."
      "Researchers who did not participate in the study
agree that shadows could cool the Saturn atmosphere enough
to slow the winds."
      "'The ring shadow moves from the northern hemisphere
to the southern hemisphere and back again during the
Saturn seasons,' said Andy Ingersoll, a Caltech astronomer
and expert on the atmospheric dynamics of other planets."
      "'That's a pretty unusual environment, and it
probably has an effect,' Ingersoll said."
      "French and Sanchez Lavega estimated the reduction in
Saturn's wind speeds by comparing motions at the top of
its deep cloud layer, which is 155 miles (248 kilometers)
thick."
      "They tracked the movement of clouds or prominent
storm systems on the Voyager photos of the 1980s, then
compared them to the speed of cloud and storm system
motion from the Hubble's higher-resolution images taken in
1996-2002."  (See the Duluth, Minn. News-Tribune for June
29, 2003, "Saturn winds slacken, puzzling astronomers,"
page 16A.)


 From the UFO Files...

1926: UNEXPECTED WITNESS

      UFO sightings by famous politicians are rare, and
public reports of them are rarer still.  But occasionally
they do see the light of day.  Such as this one, which
appeared in the 1926 diary of one of the Twentieth
Century's most notorious political figures.
      His name was Joseph-Paul Goebbels, and he was born in
Rheydt, in Germany's Rhineland, on October 29, 1897 to a
sizable Roman Catholic family.  Although frail in body,
Goebbels, like H.P. Lovecraft, learned to read at age four
and went on to excel all through school.  Graduating in
1917, at the height of World War I, Goebbels top-scoring
academic average made him the school valedictorian.  But
his graduation speech left a little to be desired.
      As he left the podium, the gymnasium (German high
school--J.T.) headmaster clapped him on the shoulder and
said, "Good speech, Goebbels, very good speech!  The
content was excellent, even.  But...my boy, you will never
make a good orator."
      Herr Professor's words came back to haunt him...with
a vengeance.
      Most 19-year-old boys would have taken the summer
off.  Not Goebbels!  He enrolled in the University of
Bonn's summer semester.  It was the start of a spectacular
academic career that took him through the universities of
Bonn, Freiburg, Wurzburg and Munich.
      June 1921 found Goebbels in Heidelberg, majoring in
German literature and striving for his Ph. D.  He wrote a
215-page thesis--a book, actually--on the Nineteenth
Century German playwright Wilhelm Schutz.  It was so
crammed with footnotes on the playwright's life that one
of the four dissertation committee judges, Dr. Paum,
commented that "it was as if Schutz himself had returned
from the grave."
      However, Dr. Max von Waldberg, the chairman of the
department, was not so easily impressed.  He put together
a review team that would cut this Rhinelander down to
size.  "On 16 November 1921 Joseph Goebbels received his
summons to the oral examination, scheduled for 18
November."
      The highly nervous grad student wrote, "To
Heidelberg...Called on the examiners.  In top hat.
Crammed all night.  A cup of strong mocha (coffee).  And
then to the exam."
      There he was, a lone grad student arrayed against
four Heidelberg professors.  The oral examination went on
for hours.  "The most harrowing experience of my life,"
Goebbels later called it, as he fielded questions from von
Waldberg, Paum, Oncken and Neumann.  But when the ordeal
was over, Goebbels "received a provisional doctoral
diploma on the spot and felt proud--as he later noted--
when Waldberg called him 'Herr Doktor' for the first
time."
      "Goebbels," Waldberg told him, unwilling to let this
star of academia get away.  "We have to see about getting
you a professorship."
      Ah, but there are some things the department chairman
cannot do.  And one of them is change the course of
history.
      The year 1922 brought the collapse of Germany's
currency.  When the German Weimar Republic announced its
inability to meet Allied reparations payments, France
invaded and occupied the Saar.  Riots broke out in all of
the major cities, and the unemployment rate shot over 50
percent.  Goebbels found himself a Ph. D. without a job
and with no chance of getting one.
      While the Weimar government reeled under attacks from
the Left and Right, Goebbels drifted into Anton Drexler's
Nazionalsozialistiche Deutchesarbeiterspartei (NSDAP or
National Socialist German Workers Party--J.T.), founded
four years earlier.  He became attracted to Gregor
Strasser and, like Strasser, admired Vladimir Ilyich
Ulyanov, a.k.a. Lenin, the leader of Russia's Bolshevik
Revolution and dictator of the newly-founded Soviet Union.
      Goebbels, Strasser and the other atheist "National
Bolshevists" wanted a uniquely "German Socialism."  As
opposed to Georgi Plekhanov and the other luminaries of
the Second International, Lenin was actually making
revolution, calling Lloyd George and Winston S. Churchill
"assholes" and badmouthing Wall Street night and day.
      Because of his literary background, Goebbels finally
landed a job at the NSDAP headquarters in Elberfeld,
editing the party publication Nazionalsozialistische
Briefe (German for National Socialist Letters--J.T.).
Goebbels' fire-breathing revolutionary style soon earned
him the nickname "Robespierre" among the magazine staff.
      However, his sojourn in Elberfeld soon brought him
into contact with the volkische or mystical branch of the
NSDAP.  Elberfeld had long been the capital of German
mysticism.
      On July 22, 1884, the German wing of Elena Petrovna
von Hahn Blavatsky's Theosophical Society was founded in
Elberfeld by Madame Blavatsky herself and the city's
resident sorceress, Marie L'estrange Gebhard (1832-1892).
Frau Gebhard had been a disciple of Eliphas Levi (birth
name: Alphonse Constant), the foremost occultist of the
middle Nineteenth Century.  A few years later, Dr. Wilhelm
Hubbe-Schleiden (1846-1916) became president of the German
Theosophical Society and founded their long-running
magazine Die Sphinx.
      Also living in Elberfeld for a while were Dr. Franz
Hartmann (1838-1912), a prolific author and occultist,
just back from his worldwide tour (which included a stint
in Colorado with the American outlaw group, the Wild
Bunch--J.T.) and his chela (disciple) Hugo Vollrath, who
founded Prana, the Theosophical magazine.  Vollrath's best
friend and a frequent visitor to Elberfeld was Johannes
Baltzli, who helped the mystic Rudolf von Sebottendorff
(birth name: Adam Glauer) create the Germanenorden dem
Walvater und den Graal (Translated: German Order of the
All-Father and the Grail--J.T.), better known to history
as the Thule Society.
      Goebbels' star was rising in the NSDAP.  He took on
new responsibilities as the editor of the party newspaper
Volkische Freiheit.  He also went on a whirlwind speaking
tour throughout northern Germany.  This went on for a
whole year, with Goebbels giving a major speech literally
every other day.  How that old headmaster, who said he
would "never make a good orator," must have gasped when he
picked up the prestigious newspaper Frankfurter Zeitung
and saw his former student commanding Page One headlines
as "the Robespierre of the Rhine."
      But the main arena of NSDAP action was in the south,
in Bayern (Bavaria) where party members had staged an
abortive coup.  The "Beer Hall putsch" had made their
fiery orator, Adolf Hitler, a national figure.  Already he
was "the German Messiah" to the mystic faction of the
NSDAP.  When Hitler's book, Mein Kampf (German for My
Struggle--J.T.) appeared in October 1925, one of the Thule
group in Elberfeld gave Goebbels a copy.
      "Reading the book to the end 'with gripping
tension,'" Goebbels confided to his diary, "'Who is this
man?  Half plebeian, half god!  The real Christ, or only
John?'"
      Goebbels decided to find out.  On November 6, 1925,
he traveled to Braunschweig for a meeting with Hitler.
The effect on Goebbels was nothing short of extraordinary.
Goebbels wrote, "At once he (Hitler) jumps up, stands
there before us.  Presses my hand.  Like an old friend.
And those big blue eyes.  Like stars.  He's glad to see
me.  I'm filled with happiness...This man has everything
it takes to be a king.  The born tribune of the people.
The coming dictator."
      "Numerous diary passages written in the summer of
1926 show how far Goebbels' imagination could carry him;
he not only transfigured Hitler into the new Messiah but
also linked him with miracles and wonderful happenings in
nature...At the end of July (1926) Goebbels spent time at
Hitler's mountain retreat, the Berghof on the Obersalzberg
(mountain) above Berchtesgaden."
      And that's where it happened.  But we'll let Goebbels
tell the story himself.
      "I stand shaken before him (Hitler).  This is how he
is: like a child, dear, good, compassionate.  Sly like a
cat, clever and skillful, magnificently roaring and
gigantic like a lion.  A fine fellow, a real man."
      "He speaks of the state.  In the afternoon, of
winning the state and of the meaning of political
revolution.  Thoughts I may already have had myself but
not expressed."
      "After supper we sit for a long time in the garden of
the Seamen's Retirement Home, and he holds forth on the
new state and how we will achieve it.  It has the ring of
prophecy."
      "Above us in the sky a white cloud forms a swastika.
A shimmering light that can't be a star (my emphasis--
J.T.).  A sign from fate?  We go home late!"
      "Far in the distance Salzburg shimmers.  I am
something like happy.  This life is certainly worth
living.  'My head won't roll in the dust until my mission
is fulfilled.'  That was his last word.  That's how he is!
Yes, that's how he is!"
      Goebbels' defection doomed the Strasser wing of the
NSDAP.  Although his one-time friends, Gregor and Otto
Strasser, fulminated against Hitler and openly jeered at
"Goebbels' Damascus!" (A reference to the conversion of
St. Paul in the Bible's Acts of the Apostles--J.T.), the
"National Bolshevism" idea fell by the wayside, and Hitler
led the NSDAP down the mystical path.
      Goebbels' faith in his new-found "Messiah" never
wavered.  Two decades later, during those last days in the
Berlin Fuhrerbunker, he was telling everyone present "to
die bravely so that audiences will cheer when they see the
actor portraying you on color television in the year
1999."
      If there was ever a UFO that changed the course of
history, it was the one that appeared over Berchtesgaden
in July 1926.  (See the books Goebbels by Ralf Georg Ruth,
Harcourt Brace & Co., New York, N.Y., 1993, pages 66, 67,
74 and 75; Goebbels by Victor Reimann, Doubleday & Co.,
Garden City, N.Y., 1976, pages 38 and 39; and Unholy
Alliance by Peter Levenda, Continuum Publishing, New York,
N.Y., 1995, pages 42 to 47.)
(Editor's Comment:  I don't know about you people, but,
when those "daisy cutters" come whistling down, the
absolute last thing on your editor's mind is what might be
in TV Guide a half-century hence.)

      Well, that's it for this week.  Join us in seven days
for more UFO, Fortean and paranormal news from around the
planet Earth, brought to you by "the paper that goes home-
-UFO Roundup."  See you next time!

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2003 by Masinaigan Productions, all
rights reserved.  Readers may post news items from UFO
Roundup on their Web sites or in news groups provided that
they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list
the date of issue in which the item first appeared.


E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com>
or use the Sighting Report Form at:

http://www.ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Website comments: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>

UFOINFO: http://www.ufoinfo.com

Official Archives of UFO Roundup, AUFORN Australian
UFO Reports and Experiences, UFO + PSI Magazine, plus
archives of Filer's Files, Oz Files, UFO News UK and
UFO Sightings Italia.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
UFO Roundup is only sent to subscribers.
If you wish to unsubscribe or feel you have received
the bulletin in error, please write to:

  <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>

With the subject: Unsubscribe UFO Roundup.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 15

             Re: 'UFO Program' At Laurentian University? - Groff

From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:45:21 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 12:28:33 -0400
Subject: Re: 'UFO Program' At Laurentian University? - Groff


>From: Michel M. Deschamps <ufoman@interlynx.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 01:42:56 -0500
>Subject: Re: 'UFO Program' At Laurentian University? -

>>From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 08:14:37 -0400
>>Subject: 'UFO Program' At Laurentian University?

>>A caller to an overnight talk show made a quick reference to a
>>"UFO programme" (which might simply be one course) at
Laurentian
>>University in Sudbury, Ontario.  Anyone know if that reference
>>is true?

>>How common are such courses, if it is a single course? Is there
>>a list of universities with such courses posted?


>Eleanor,

>I reside in Sudbury... and am the sole UFO expert in this
>area....I will try to verify this... for you and me both.

Thorneloe University is part of the Laurentian Consortium and
the do offer a course in their Religious Studies department
called,

RLST 2326 E - Dimensions of the Paranormal
This course critically examines the religious and cultural
significance of paranormal phenomena (such as near-death
experience, telepathy, clairvoyance, UFO contact, and
abduction). By studying first-hand accounts, films, academic
studies, and selected new paranormal religious movements,
students will critically assess both the nature of the evidence
and the different ways of accounting for it: mythic-religious,
scientific, philosophic, and psychoanalytic. (lec 3) cr 3

http://thorneloe.laurentian.ca/religion/courses.html

Hope this helps

Terry Groff
http://terrygroff.com/ufotools/

ICQ:18292278
AIM: cupojava11
MSN: cupojava1







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 15

                     Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Strickland

From: Sue Strickland <strick@intergate.net>
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 00:36:48 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:55:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Strickland


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 21:41:34 -0400
>Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants'

>>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 16:46:44 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
>>Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants'

><snip>

Nick said:

>>Fellow ufologist Grant Cameron possesses a very revealing audio
>>cassette recording of an interview by Wilbert B. Smith's key
>>'metals man' about the much larger quanitities of UFO hardware
>>that is not in the public domain which has been positively
>>determined to be ET in origin. For this reason, one is wrong to
>>feel that many top labs would want to protect their reputation
>>by refusing to perform analytical tests on such controversial ET
>>artifacts when it is likely that they may have secretly been
>>involved with other equally controversial stuff in the past,
>>including UFO physical evidence studies.

Steve replied:

>I have always found Wilbert Smith's involvement in this genre to
>be very interesting. I'm not familiar with the tape you mention,
>but if there is evidence to back up these claims then we have
>the "smoking gun" that we've all been looking for. If no
>independent evidence exists, then we're left with another
>anecdotal claim with nothing to back it up.

Hello all,

Bruce, I'll bet you've been wondering what would pull me out of
the closet. This kind of claim is exactly what yanks my chain.
Obviously, Steve's wondering the same thing. Nick, I'll bet
there's others on the List whose ears and eyes popped out a few
inches after reading your above-cited post.

Nick, if you can, please provide the List with some sort of
ability to listen to the tape, which may be a piece of the huge
puzzle and a bit of "the smoking gun" we've been seeking for so
long. This is not a small issue. Your claim is relevant and
important.

Hugs to all,

Sue Strickland
ex-abductee







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 15

                                  Heads-Up

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:38:59 -0300
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:01:09 -0400
Subject: Heads-Up


Hello All,

Some coward is sending people (UpDates List members) warnings
that if they engage in debate with me they will be thrown off
the List. I just want to put to rest any concerns that anyone
may have that any such thing is true.

1. The _sole_ creator, moderator, owner of this List is Errol
Bruce-Knapp. Not John Velez. I have no authority or power or
wish to either add or delete any members/participants to this
e-mail List.

2. The only thing that EBK has ever screened out consistently
is flames. In all the years I have been an active participant of
this e-mail forum I have never seen anyone dumped for honest
or even heated debate.

3. In the seven years I have been a member of UFO UpDates
the number of people that have been removed from the List
can be counted on one hand. From the public explanations
that EBK has always posted regarding these 'removals' none
of them were arbitrary or without good cause.

4. I am not responsible, nor have I had any input regarding the
few people that have been removed in the past. I simply don't
have any say in who stays or who goes. Nor do I want to.

Anyone wishing to engage in honest, open discussion or debate
with me can do so without any qualms about retribution from
me or the moderator of this List. I think all will agree with me
that Errol has proven himself to be a fair man of fine judgement
when it comes to the moderation of this List. UFO UpDates is
the best run UFO List on the Internet, bar none. Credit for that
is due to EBK's intelligence, sense of fairness and even-handed
handling of List-related issues that have come up in the past.

Please, ignore any 'behind my back' notes you may get from
disgruntled individuals with nothing better to do with the time
of their lives. So sorry to have bother everyone with this kind of
time wasting, sophomoric nonsense. We all have bigger fish to
fry. I don't know about you, but I consider the subject of UFOs
to be the most important and urgent issue that any of us could
be dealing with.

It is the sole reason for the existence of this e-mail forum.
Let's stick to that.

Respectfully, regretfully submitted, (sorry to have to take up
your time with this.)


John Velez
Just another UpDates Indian... not the chief!





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 15

                   Crikey! Stargazer Deciphers Alien Lingo

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:21:16 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:21:16 -0400
Subject: Crikey! Stargazer Deciphers Alien Lingo




Source: The Sydney Morning Herald - Australia

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/07/14/1058034941584.html

Stargazer deciphers alien lingo

By Richard Macey
July 15 2003

Strewth, if yabbering with aliens sounds like hard yakka, take a
Captain Cook at making contact with those life forms Down Under.

Seth Shostak, a world leader in the hunt for intelligent life in
space, is in Sydney for the 25th general assembly of the
International Astronomical Union.

But Dr. Shostak, a senior astronomer with the Search for Extra
Terrestrial Intelligence, in Mountain View, California, is not
here to speak. He is editing the tabloid newspaper The
Magellanic Times, published daily for 2000 astronomers from 65
countries.

In yesterday's issue he warned delegates about the local lingo:
"This is occasionally, and insincerely, referred to as
'English', but that's like referring to the boiled missionaries
served up by 19th century cannibals as 'cuisine'."

"Fair dinkum," he assured delegates, meant "I agree".

If that doesn't lead to a communications supernova, he advised
that in this "man's society... Women are still regarded as
novelties and in order to simplify conversation are all called
'Sheila'."

For their part, most men are called 'Bruce'."

Defending himself yesterday, the mischievous astronomer-turned-
editor declared: "If it's not provocative, there's no point
writing it." As for that fair dinkum definition: "I was told
this by Australians," he pleaded.

Dr Shostak is no doubt used to provocative stands. The first
SETI experiment was launched in 1960, but 43 years later not one
alien "G'day" has been heard by SETI's radio telescopes. But he
is not disillusioned.

"I would have been surprised had we succeeded up to this point,"
he said, noting a local McDonald's store employed more staff
than SETI had full-time scientists.

Since 1960 radio astronomers listening for artificial signals
had satisfactorily surveyed less than 1000 of the 100 billion
stars in our galaxy, one of thousands of billions of galaxies.

Optical astronomers, looking for laser beam flashes some
scientists think aliens may be using to communicate, had only
observed several thousand more.

"We have only begun to search," said Dr Shostak, who guessed
that millions of stars would have to be examined in detail.

He predicted that within 20 years astronomers would have
telescopes capable of spotting telltale signs of life - such as
bacteria-made oxygen atmospheres - in planets beyond our solar
system.

"I think we are on the verge of finding that biology is very
wide spread. Bacteria may be more detectable than aliens."

But, he conceded: "I don't think the Waynes, from Penrith, would
be that happy [with bacteria]."

The public wanted intelligent life, he said.

[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 15

               Crop Circles Cause Chaos & Questions In Knobel

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:27:11 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:27:11 -0400
Subject: Crop Circles Cause Chaos & Questions In Knobel




Source: WMC-TV Channel 5 Memphis

http://www.wmcstations.com/Global/story.asp?S=1360437

July 15, 2003

Crop Circles Cause Chaos And Create Questions In Knobel, Arkanas
by
George Brown

To say Knobel, AR is a quiet town is an understatement so when
crop circles showed up, word spread fast.

The circles appeared June 7th near a small cemetery and got big
attention.

A group form Boston that studies crop circles around the world
even made a trek to the tract of land, twice.

BLT Researchers:

http://www.bltresearch.com/

said soil samples show magnetic levels 9 times higher than
before the circles.

The question now is what or whom made them.

Tammy Wilson says it could be aliens, "What about aliens? I
don't know. You could be an alien for all I know. I guess if we
can go up there they could come down here. If God made us why
couldn't he make something up there?"

One theory from the folks studying the circles is they may be
caused by the same forces that create lighting or the Northern
Lights.

A sort of cosmic, plasma downburst that flattens fields.

Whatever it is, people around the world are talking about
Knobel, AR and Tammy Wilson says that's not all bad. "It's
better attention than we normally get. It's usually drug busts
around here. This is better than that."

The circles are gone, the fields disked, crops are popping up.

All is quiet in Knobel and the people who live here hope the
plasma, little green men, punksters or whatever's causing the
circles doesn't come back.

[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 15

                            ET Alive And On Mars

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:34:22 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:34:22 -0400
Subject: ET Alive And On Mars




Source: The Australian - Sydney, Australia

http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,6753999%255E13762,00.html

July 15, 2003

ET Alive And On Mars: Astronomers
By Leigh Dayton and Steven Swinford

NASA found evidence of life on Mars in 1976, but dismissed the
findings as impossible, two British astronomers claim.

Now, evidence from missions such as the Mars Global Surveyor
suggests that the early observation was correct after all.

For instance, newly released high-resolution images of the
planet's surface show a valley which might have been originally
formed by liquid water, the stuff of life.

According to Nigel Henbest and Heather Couper, independent
astronomy writers and broadcasters, one of three biology
experiments conducted on Mars by the two Viking landers obtained
clear evidence that there were living microbes on the red
planet.

The experimental instrument, designed by engineer Gilbert Levin,
head of the Biospherics company in the US, exposed samples of
the Martian soil to an Earth-like solution of water and
nutrients known to exist in meteorites and interstellar clouds.

"It was the kind of solution that bacteria on Earth would love
to slurp," Mr Henbest, in Sydney for the International
Astronomical Union's 24th general assembly, said.

"It was cleverly designed so that if there was no life, then
nothing would happen, but if there were microbes, they would
take in the solution and produce gas." He said the gas was
tagged with a radioactive label that could be detected by the
experiment's built-in Geiger detector.

Also speaking at the assembly, astronomer Seth Shostak predicted
that scientists will find ET within 25 years.

Dr Shostak, with the Search for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence
Institute (SETI) claimed that a $US10 billion ($15 billion)
array of 350 specially designed radio telescopes under
construction in California will crank up the search for
extraterrestrial radio signals.

"It's like going from walking to jet speed, like finding a
needle in a haystack with a big shovel instead of a small
spoon," he said.

In their new book Mars: the inside story of the red planet Mr
Henbest and Dr Couper reveal that Dr Levin's instrument tested
three soil samples at differing temperatures. When tested at
46C, the sample emitted gas, indicating the presence of
bacteria-like organisms.

"Independent people say that if this were the only experiment on
Viking the (scientists) would have been persuaded that there is
evidence for life on Mars," Mr Henbest said.

The problem was that neither of the other two experiments found
telltale signs of life. NASA dismissed Dr Levin's findings.

The Australian


[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 15

                  New York Sunday Times Magazine July 27/03

From: Will Bueche - Center for Psychology & Social Change <info@centerchange.org
>
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:14:49 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:37:22 -0400
Subject: New York Sunday Times Magazine July 27/03


A feature article on the alien encounter experience, by Times
writer Bruce Grierson will appear in the Sunday July 27th
edition of The New York Times Magazine.** The article is not
expected to be favorable towards experiencers of alien contact
(though stranger things have happened).

The article focuses on a young Harvard researcher, Susan Clancy,
who designed a memory experiment in an effort to disprove the
validity of repressed memories of childhood sexual abuse. For
the experiment, she recruited subjects whose memories are, in
her opinion, patently false: "experiencers" of alien contact.

The article is expected to highlight Clancy's remarkable
resistance to criticism from researchers such as Dr. John Mack
who believe that alien encounters are real, and from her Harvard
Medical School colleagues who believe that traumatic memories
are routinely repressed.

Interviews were conducted in Cambridge, Massachusetts earlier
this year with Susan Clancy, her colleage Richard McNally, John
Mack, filmmaker Laurel Chiten (of the documentary film
"Touched"), some of the subjects who took part in Clancy's
experiment and went on to speak out against her conclusions, and
others from Harvard (the final article may or may not include
all of these perspectives).

**Those wishing to get an advance look at the article should
sign on to the New York Times website on the Friday before that
Sunday's issue: the Times' website gets a head start on the
print edition. Here is the direct link:

http://nytimes.com/magazine







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 15

                             Re: Heads-Up - Vike

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:34:09 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:59:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Heads-Up - Vike


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:38:59 -0300
>Subject: Heads-Up

>Hello All,

>Some coward is sending people (UpDates List members) warnings
>that if they engage in debate with me they will be thrown off
>the List. I just want to put to rest any concerns that anyone
>may have that any such thing is true.

<anip>

Good Day John & List

Well folks I have not heard from anyone as of yet over this
issue. But I must say I have had some interesting e-mails
lately. I don't know if any of you are aware of this, but I am a
"mole". Planted in the UFO field by government sources to
hopefully throw a wrench into the working gears. It gets better,
I am also working for the Canadian Intelligence Service. Of
course this is news to me. I received I think the best one yet,
late last week, from a very kind fellow who called me every name
in the book, and some words I wasn't aware of, because I did not
send him an URL. Little did the guy know that he is not the only
person I talk with everyday, and if he had held on to his nasty
mail he would have received the URL. Some folks don't seem to
realize that all of us have a life away from UFOs. And of course
I must be working for the government and trying to keep things
silent.

I know there are some strange folks out there with some twisted
ideas, but it seems to be getting worse. One nice thing is that
I can block these people I don't have to put up with them. Thank
goodness for that blocking feature.

So all in all, if the person who John is talking about here
decided to contact me, I am sure I will tell him to hit the
road, in a nice way.

I certainly am finding that _some_ people can be down right
scary and I for one am glad they do not live close to me - I
hope.


Take care

Brian
The Government Mole






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 15

                   Re: Victor Kean - 1931-2003 - Spurrier

From: Tony Spurrier <tonyandsue13@ntlworld.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 01:51:57 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 22:13:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Victor Kean - 1931-2003 - Spurrier


>From: Graham W. Birdsall - UFO Magazine [UK] <gwb@ufomag.co.uk>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 12:36:40 +0100
>Subject: Victor Kean - 1931-2003

Victor's contribution to the UFO community as a whole will be
greatly missed following this sad news.

Following Victor's analysis of the FT sightings during December
1999, I contacted Victor for more information. Unfortunately my
attempts to contact Victor failed, until he saw a message I
posted on the UFO Forum on Compuserve. What followed was a new
dimension of research into the "Flying Triangle", that comprised
of the data collated by Victor and all the FT contributors
throughout the UK.

As early as March 1998, from a research point of view, Victor's
work was complimented with an inependant sighting of unusual
sightings in the vicinity of one of the hot spots in the uk.

Following on from this Victor was able to identify certain time
lines which have greatly assisted in future investigations into
these sightings.

Many things have been eliminated from this enquiry, most
certainly lighthouses, airports, tractors, boats, cars, etc. One
particular area comprises only marshes which greatly eliminates
anything other than a silent craft which houses red/white/amber
lights, can hover for 30 minutes, appearingly change shape, be
only 100 feet from observers, and merely 30 feet above ground.

During the past 5 years we have been able to utilise the local
residents association to eradicate local landmarks and also
encourage free speech within the area of question. The locals
are now very helpfull and come along to see some very strange
sights.

We took one local to a secluded field by the marshes, she saw,
as we all did, a sudden appearance of a white "glowing"pyramid
shaped object. Two red lights on the bottom edge of the pyramid.
On top a pulsating green light. This just appeared, materialised
if you like. After a few minutes this object blinked out like a
light, it was gone.

This type of sighting is not unusual in the area Victor
specified. His research was second to none, becuase he had
identified true hot-spots. From the conversations over the years
we had, Victor knew he had stumbled across something, but even
to the day he perished, I doubt he realised how significant his
research was.

This field research will continue as it has done from 1999,
there has been some significant footage obtained, which to my
knowledge has yet to be conventionally identified. There is one
piece of footage which absolutely fascinates us but until it is
independantly verified as being anomalous and concurs with our
own blown up images, it will remain a mystery.

So I would like to postumously commend Victor on his work within
ufology and for all the information he divulged which led to the
ongoing
investigation which ensued.

Many thinaks





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 15

                  Scientists Say Crop Circles Were No Prank

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 22:49:39 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 22:49:39 -0400
Subject: Scientists Say Crop Circles Were No Prank




Source: The Jonesboro Sun - Arkansas

http://www.jonesborosun.com/archivedstory.asp?ID=5302

7-12-03

Scientists Say Crop Circles Were No Prank

By Keith Inman

A series of 10 circles discovered June 7 in a wheat field at
Knobel was no prank, a group of scientists who study crop
circles around the world has concluded. However, because the
wheat was harvested before scientists could arrive, they said
they could not be certain.

The discovery generated interest and rumors, not only in
Northeast Arkansas, but from BLT Research Team Inc., of
Cambridge, Mass., which has studied crop circles in the U.S.,
Canada and Europe for approximately a decade.

JoAnne Scarpellini, a BLT field investigator, visited the site
adjacent to Williams Cemetery on June 16 and June 25, conducting
interviews with witnesses and taking soil samples from the site,
according to a report by Nancy Talbott, one of BLT's founders.

Todd Young harvested his wheat crop on June 11. He remains
uncertain about the source of the crop circles.

"I know something happened, but I don't know," Young said. "I'm
trying to put all that crap behind me."

Young said he had lost interest in the phenomenon. "I'm more
interested in making a living instead of making myself famous,"
he said.

Based on photographs of the site, Talbott described it as a
"mini-triple Julia formation." The center circle was around 31
feet in diameter, with three circles in each "arm" of decreasing
sizes down to eight feet in diameter. Circles in arms spaced
approximately 10 feet apart had a slight curvature clockwise,
according to the research. Crop lay was reported to have been
clockwise in all circles.

On June 25 Scarpellini returned to the site, after Young had
already disked the field and planted soybeans. She took soil
samples from the location where the formations were found and
control samples some 500 feet away from the site.

"These samples yielded the highest concentration of magnetic
material ever reported by the BLT Team in a crop circle,"
Talbott reported. While normal soils seldom exceed 0.4
milligrams of magnetic material per gram of soil, the soil at
Knobel measured 30.29 mg, the report stated.

The BLT report indicated that the high magnetic concentrations
found at the Arkansas site are similar to trends found in a
large number of crop formations worldwide.

"The fact that under the microscope we can see both spherical
and partially ablated particles here, the fact that there were
no magnetic particles found in the control soils, and the fact
that the concentration in the circle samples was so great, all
indicate that this formation was not mechanically-flattened"
Talbott reported.

She said a paper published by William C. Levengood, a
biophysicist from Michigan, and John Burke, a New York
businessman, may shed some light on what happened. Levengood and
Burke, who are co-founders of BLT Research, hypothesized that
microscopic particles of meteoric iron which are entering the
earth's atmosphere constantly as meteors burn up in the upper
atmosphere. Those particles get drawn into a descending plasma
vortex system.

"The idea is that the meteoric debris is both drawn into the
descending plasma vortex by its strong magnetic field and then
heated to a molten state by the microwaves emitted by the
spiraling plasma," Talbott wrote in the report. "The molten, and
now magnetized particles then form spheres and particles with
partially rounded surfaces as they cool on the way down to the
earth's surface and are left in the soil in the crop circle area
as the plasma vortex impacts the field.

"This theory is the most reasonable yet offered to explain the
presence of these magnetic particles in so many crop circle
soils, all over the world."

Talbott also noted that interviews with witnesses revealed that
energy was emanating upwards to at least 800 feet above the
formation.


[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 15

               Re: New York Sunday Times Magazine July 27/03 -

From: Chris Evans <chrisevans@zoominternet.net>
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 22:47:42 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 22:58:14 -0400
Subject: Re: New York Sunday Times Magazine July 27/03 -


>From: Will Bueche - Center for Psychology & Social Change <info@centerchange.or
g>
>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:14:49 -0400
>Subject: New York Sunday Times Magazine July 27/03

>A feature article on the alien encounter experience, by Times
>writer Bruce Grierson will appear in the Sunday July 27th
>edition of The New York Times Magazine.** The article is not
>expected to be favorable towards experiencers of alien contact
>(though stranger things have happened).

>The article focuses on a young Harvard researcher, Susan Clancy,
>who designed a memory experiment in an effort to disprove the
>validity of repressed memories of childhood sexual abuse. For
>the experiment, she recruited subjects whose memories are, in
>her opinion, patently false: "experiencers" of alien contact.

>The article is expected to highlight Clancy's remarkable
>resistance to criticism from researchers such as Dr. John Mack
>who believe that alien encounters are real, and from her Harvard
>Medical School colleagues who believe that traumatic memories
>are routinely repressed.

>Interviews were conducted in Cambridge, Massachusetts earlier
>this year with Susan Clancy, her colleage Richard McNally, John
>Mack, filmmaker Laurel Chiten (of the documentary film
>"Touched"), some of the subjects who took part in Clancy's
>experiment and went on to speak out against her conclusions, and
>others from Harvard (the final article may or may not include
>all of these perspectives).

>**Those wishing to get an advance look at the article should
>sign on to the New York Times website on the Friday before that
>Sunday's issue: the Times' website gets a head start on the
>print edition. Here is the direct link:

>http://nytimes.com/magazine


We have seen many of these, seemingly, highly-controlled
"experiments in a box"; not merely in the fields of psychology
and psychiatry, but also, in several other fields of science.

These may at times seem impressive, if we hold the frame
according to the guise of the experimenter. That is, 'include'
only what he or she is presenting, while 'excluding' a
voluminous collection of glaring physical evidence that does not
readily lend itself to the realm 'psychological evaluation.'

Just a continuation of a large battery of logic fallacies that
have pervaded the field of ufology, while along the lines of
"the [academia] is quicker than the eye."


Kind Regards

Chris







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 16

               Re: New York Sunday Times Magazine July 27/03 -

From: Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <v.s.o@prodigy.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:08:10 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:37:39 -0400
Subject: Re: New York Sunday Times Magazine July 27/03 -


>From: Chris Evans <chrisevans@zoominternet.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 22:47:42 -0400
>Subject: Re: New York Sunday Times Magazine July 27/03

>>From: Will Bueche - Center for Psychology & Social Change <info@centerchange.o
rg>
>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:14:49 -0400
>>Subject: New York Sunday Times Magazine July 27/03

>>A feature article on the alien encounter experience, by Times
>>writer Bruce Grierson will appear in the Sunday July 27th
>>edition of The New York Times Magazine.** The article is not
>>expected to be favorable towards experiencers of alien contact
>>(though stranger things have happened).

<snip>

>We have seen many of these, seemingly, highly-controlled
>"experiments in a box"; not merely in the fields of psychology
>and psychiatry, but also, in several other fields of science.

>These may at times seem impressive, if we hold the frame
>according to the guise of the experimenter. That is, 'include'
>only what he or she is presenting, while 'excluding' a
>voluminous collection of glaring physical evidence that does not
>readily lend itself to the realm 'psychological evaluation.'

>Just a continuation of a large battery of logic fallacies that
>have pervaded the field of ufology, while along the lines of
>"the [academia] is quicker than the eye."


Chris Evans is right when he said this are "experiments in a box".

I would like to see this type of experiment back up with a field
investigation;

Interview eyewitnesses and also independent witnesses, body
marks left in the body (physical evidence), police report,
hospital report, military report, etc.....

All this happened in _one_ case: the Filiberto Cardena -a Cuban
exile living in Hialeah, Florida - abduction in January 3, 1979.
We investigated this case assisted by the late Dr. Hynek. Later
published in a book "UFO, Contact From Undersea", already out of
print.

There are others abduction cases rich on physical evidences and
witnesses beside the psychic experiences. I would like to ask
researcher Susan Clancy: "Where is the Beef" (field
investigation)

If only _one_ abduction case is _true_, then we are facing a
_real_  problem worth research.


Very truly,


Dr. Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo
Miami UFO Center







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 16

                    Gordon Creighton (FSR) - 1908 - 2003

From: Graham W. Birdsall - UFO Magazine [UK] <gwb@ufomag.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 18:37:24 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:22:14 -0400
Subject: Gordon Creighton (FSR) - 1908 - 2003


From the Editor Of UFO Magazine (Uk)

The death has been announced of Gordon Creighton, who died this
morning (Wednesday, 16 July, 2003). He was aged 95.

Up until his death, the former British Diplomat was Editor of
'Flying Saucer Review', one of the oldest and most respected UFO
journals in the world.

Graham W. Birdsall, Editor of UFO Magazine, said: "Gordon
Creighton was arguably one of Ufology's greatest ever
proponents. For the best part of 50 years, he sought out
information on the phenomenon from around the world, and his
lasting legacy will be that which he came to publish in 'Flying
Saucer Review'. He was a remarkable man in every respect, and
the world of Ufology will mourn his passing."








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 16

                         Secrecy News -- 07/16/2003

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 11:52:55 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:51:19 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 07/16/2003


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2003, Issue No. 60
July 16, 2003


**      SENATORS ASK RELEASE OF WEN HO LEE REPORT
**      IRAQI URANIUM CONTROVERSY GROWS
**      CONGRESSIONAL 9/11 REPORT IS ON THE WAY
**      WHITE HOUSE SEEKS TO SAVE TIA
**      BINGAMAN ON ADMINISTRATIVE DETENTIONS


SENATORS ASK RELEASE OF WEN HO LEE REPORT

The Justice Department has refused to comply with a
congressional request for a copy of a recently completed report
on the FBI's handling of the Wen Ho Lee case, prompting a
challenge from three Senators.

"Your staff has said that we cannot review the report,"
complained three members of the Senate Judiciary Committee in a
letter to Attorney General Ashcroft last week, asking him to
release the document.

"The Senate Judiciary Committee has exercised close oversight
over the Wen Ho Lee case, including holding three hearings while
you were still a member of the committee," wrote Senators Dianne
Feinstein (D-CA), Patrick Leahy (D-VT) and Charles Grassley (R-
IA).

"Members of the committee would like to continue our oversight
role over the Wen Ho Lee case by examining the [Justice
Department Office of Professional Responsibility] report."

An FAS Freedom of Information Act request for the new report was
also recently denied, and the denial has been appealed. It is,
in fact, likely that the report contains properly classified
information, privacy information, and law enforcement
information that would preclude the report's full release to the
public.

But withholding it from Congress is another matter. The Senators
noted that in the past, similar investigative reports from had
been provided to the Judiciary Committee.

Congressional oversight of the Justice Department has
increasingly been diverted into a struggle for access for
information. To the extent that routine requests for information
consume the time and attention of senior Senators, as in this
case, fewer resources are available for actual oversight.

A copy of the July 8 letter from Senators Feinstein, Leahy and
Grassley is posted here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2003/07/whl070803.html


IRAQI URANIUM CONTROVERSY GROWS

The President's State of the Union remark concerning an alleged
Iraqi attempt to acquire uranium in Africa "appears to be but
one of a number of several questionable statements and
exaggerations by the Intelligence Community and Administration
officials that were issued in the buildup to the war," said
Senator Carl Levin (D-MI) yesterday.

In a floor statement, he itemized the growing list of
problematic assertions involving intelligence on Iraq.

Part of the problem arises from the careless use of language,
which may in turn reflect a deeper confusion. While dramatic
linguistic missteps are most common in the pronouncements of
President Bush ("We've found the weapons of mass destruction,"
he said egregiously on May 30), they are not limited to the
President.

For example, Senator Levin noted, "Last Sunday, Ms. Rice said
'we have never said that we thought he [Saddam] had nuclear
weapons.' But Vice President Cheney said on March 16 'we believe
he [Saddam] has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons'."

Senator Levin called for a "thorough, open and bipartisan
inquiry" on pre-war intelligence regarding Iraqi weapons of mass
destruction and its use by policymakers. See his July 15
statement here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2003_cr/levin071503.html

Rep. Henry Waxman (D-CA), who has been way out in front on the
Africa uranium story, wrote a long letter to the House
Intelligence Committee outlining his view of the "four
categories of unanswered questions" that the story presents. His
July 15 letter, and previous correspondence, may be found here:

 http://www.house.gov/reform/min/inves_admin/admin_nuclear_evide
nce.htm

The Director of Central Intelligence has responded in writing to
the House Intelligence Committee's May 22 request for
information on how pre-war intelligence on Iraqi WMD was
developed, said ranking member Rep. Jane Harman (D-CA) at a news
conference yesterday.

"We are presently working to have that letter declassified," she
said.

Based on her own review of the materials provided to the
Intelligence Committee to date, she said delicately, "the
intelligence case for war relied more than it should have on
circumstantial indicators of Iraq's WMD programs, rather than on
solid facts."

At the same time, "the Administration consistently omitted the
caveats and qualifiers that the intelligence community generally
attached to its assessments of Iraq's WMD programs and ties to
terrorism."

"The emerging evidence in Iraq does point to WMD programs," Rep.
Harman said, "but does not point to the existence of large
stockpiles of chemical or biological weapons."

The House Intelligence Committee will hold a public hearing on
July 24 "in connection with its continuing review of pre-war
intelligence on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction and ties to
terrorism."

Several members of the Committee went on a fact-finding mission
to Iraq last week and reported on their findings in a July 15
release. See:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2003_cr/hpsci071503.pdf


CONGRESSIONAL 9/11 REPORT IS ON THE WAY

House Intelligence Committee chairman Rep. Porter Goss (R-FL)
said yesterday that the long-promised declassification of the
congressional joint inquiry report on September 11 has finally
been completed and the report is now "at the printers."

"I would say that we won virtually all of the battles we wanted
to win in terms of getting information to the public," Rep. Goss
said. "Now, we didn't win it all in exactly the form we wanted
it, but the material, the subject matter, is pretty much out
there."

"The one case that was the most difficult, it turns out in
hindsight, maybe the administration was right, we should have
been more prudent. But I will quickly say neither the
administration nor we knew that at the time. They were guessing
that it could be a problem if we released it, and as it turned
out they were right because of events that none of us knew were
going to happen," he said without further explanation.

"My hope is that Senator Graham and I are going to be able to
have a press conference and get [the report] out as soon as it
is back, and we hope that will be in a week or so," Rep. Goss
said on July 15.


WHITE HOUSE SEEKS TO SAVE TIA

The Senate is proposing, and the White House is resisting, a
provision to eliminate any funding for research and development
on DARPA's controversial Terrorism Information Awareness (TIA)
program.

The provision appears in the pending 2004 Defense Appropriations
Act. See:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/2003/defapp-tia-sen.html

In a July 14 statement, the White House "urge[d] the Senate to
remove the provision that prohibits any research and development
for the Terrorism Information Awareness Program. This provision
would deny an important potential tool in the war on terrorism."
See:

  http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/legislative/sap/108-1/s1382sap-
s.pdf


BINGAMAN ON ADMINISTRATIVE DETENTIONS

Longstanding American legal principles of due process are being
unnecessarily compromised by the Administration's conduct of the
war on terrorism, said Sen. Jeff Bingaman (D-NM) in a July 14
floor statement.

"The core element of due process law is the requirement that if
individuals are taken into custody by the Government, then
within some reasonable time, they will be advised of the crimes
of which they are accused. They will be charged with those
crimes and they will be prosecuted.... Today we are witnessing
the abandonment by this current administration of our historic
commitment to this most basic legal protection."

See Senator Bingaman's remarks on "Administrative Detentions and
Right to Due Process" here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2003_cr/s071403.html


_______________________________________________

Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:  www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email: saftergood@fas.org
voice: (202) 454-4691








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 16

                  Re: Gordon Creighton (FSR) - 1908 - 2003

From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:29:46 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:53:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Gordon Creighton (FSR) - 1908 - 2003


>From: Graham W. Birdsall - UFO Magazine [UK] <gwb@ufomag.co.uk>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 18:37:24 +0100
>Subject: Gordon Creighton (FSR) - 1908 - 2003

Little did I know that yesterday, when I was dubbing a couple of
Mr. Creighton's lectures onto CD for the Faded Discs Project,
that I was listening to another voice fading from Ufology. A
tremendous loss of a champion for Ufology.


Wendy Connors








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 16

               Re: Scientists Say Crop Circles Were No Prank -

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 12:49:39 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 16:57:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Scientists Say Crop Circles Were No Prank -


>Source: The Jonesboro Sun - Arkansas
>>7-12-03

>Scientists Say Crop Circles Were No Prank

>By Keith Inman

>A series of 10 circles discovered June 7 in a wheat field at
>Knobel was no prank, a group of scientists who study crop
>circles around the world has concluded. However, because the
>wheat was harvested before scientists could arrive, they said
>they could not be certain.

>The discovery generated interest and rumors, not only in
>Northeast Arkansas, but from BLT Research Team Inc., of
>Cambridge, Mass., which has studied crop circles in the U.S.,
>Canada and Europe for approximately a decade.

>JoAnne Scarpellini, a BLT field investigator, visited the site
>adjacent to Williams Cemetery on June 16 and June 25, conducting
>interviews with witnesses and taking soil samples from the site,
>according to a report by Nancy Talbott, one of BLT's founders.

>Todd Young harvested his wheat crop on June 11. He remains
>uncertain about the source of the crop circles.
>"I know something happened, but I don't know," Young said. "I'm
>trying to put all that crap behind me."

List members, EBK, BLT,

My family has a farm in the Ozarks, about 100 miles as the crow
flies from Knobel Ark., where this incident took place. My wife
and all her kin are from or still reside in the Ozarks, on
family farms going back 150 years.

I've spent one or two months each year for the last nine years
visiting the Ozarks. That's why I became interested in LMH's
research into this particular crop circle, which may be the best
example yet. Why? Because it would be almost impossible to pull
off a hoax of this magnitude without someone in this small
community (pop300) finding out. Ozark citizens know what's going
on and who comes and goes. Folks watch out for one another. I
can't imagine someone from outside coming in and not being
noticed. And if it were a local prank, then the perpetrators
would soon have been outed.

http://www.earthfiles.com/news/news.cfm?ID=544&category=Environment

>Young said he had lost interest in the phenomenon. "I'm more
>interested in making a living instead of making myself famous,"
>he said.

Typical Ozark attitude. "Fools' names and fools' faces soon
appear in public places".

>Based on photographs of the site, Talbott described it as a
>"mini-triple Julia formation." The center circle was around 31
>feet in diameter, with three circles in each "arm" of decreasing
>sizes down to eight feet in diameter. Circles in arms spaced
>approximately 10 feet apart had a slight curvature clockwise,
>according to the research. Crop lay was reported to have been
>clockwise in all circles.

See link above.

>On June 25 Scarpellini returned to the site, after Young had
>already disked the field and planted soybeans. She took soil
>samples from the location where the formations were found and
>control samples some 500 feet away from the site.
>"These samples yielded the highest concentration of magnetic
>material ever reported by the BLT Team in a crop circle,"
>Talbott reported. While normal soils seldom exceed 0.4
>milligrams of magnetic material per gram of soil, the soil at
>Knobel measured 30.29 mg, the report stated.

I think this is very interesting evidence.

>The BLT report indicated that the high magnetic concentrations
>found at the Arkansas site are similar to trends found in a
>large number of crop formations worldwide.

Also interesting.

>"The fact that under the microscope we can see both spherical
>and partially ablated particles here, the fact that there were
>no magnetic particles found in the control soils, and the fact
>that the concentration in the circle samples was so great, all
>indicate that this formation was not mechanically-flattened"
>Talbott reported.

>She said a paper published by William C. Levengood, a
>biophysicist from Michigan, and John Burke, a New York
>businessman, may shed some light on what happened. Levengood and
>Burke, who are co-founders of BLT Research, hypothesized that
>microscopic particles of meteoric iron which are entering the
>earth's atmosphere constantly as meteors burn up in the upper
>atmosphere. Those particles get drawn into a descending plasma
>vortex system.

Fine but what are the specifics and how in the hell does this
vortex, if it is a natural occurrence, create the circles found
in this Ozark field? And what stimulates the vortex in the first
place?

>"The idea is that the meteoric debris is both drawn into the
>descending plasma vortex by its strong magnetic field and then
>heated to a molten state by the microwaves emitted by the
>spiraling plasma," Talbott wrote in the report. "The molten, and
>now magnetized particles then form spheres and particles with
>partially rounded surfaces as they cool on the way down to the
>earth's surface and are left in the soil in the crop circle area
>as the plasma vortex impacts the field.

If it's not a hoax, it's far more likely a craft generating the
vortex.

>"This theory is the most reasonable yet offered to explain the
>presence of these magnetic particles in so many crop circle
>soils, all over the world."

I agree that a vortex like phenomenon is responsible for both
angel hair and some crop circles but the vortex is not a natural
occurrence, which I think BLT is implying.

>Talbott also noted that interviews with witnesses revealed that
>energy was emanating upwards to at least 800 feet above the
>formation.

Also interesting info.

Ed







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 16

                  Re: Gordon Creighton (FSR) - 1908 - 2003

From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 12:39:57 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 17:04:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Gordon Creighton (FSR) - 1908 - 2003


>From: Graham W. Birdsall - UFO Magazine [UK] <gwb@ufomag.co.uk>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 18:37:24 +0100
>Subject: Gordon Creighton (FSR) - 1908 - 2003

>From the Editor Of UFO Magazine (Uk)

>The death has been announced of Gordon Creighton, who died this
>morning (Wednesday, 16 July, 2003). He was aged 95.

>Up until his death, the former British Diplomat was Editor of
>'Flying Saucer Review', one of the oldest and most respected UFO
>journals in the world.

>Graham W. Birdsall, Editor of UFO Magazine, said: "Gordon
>Creighton was arguably one of Ufology's greatest ever
>proponents. For the best part of 50 years, he sought out
>information on the phenomenon from around the world, and his
>lasting legacy will be that which he came to publish in 'Flying
>Saucer Review'. He was a remarkable man in every respect, and
>the world of Ufology will mourn his passing."

Graham,

Another great one gone! He contributed a lot over the years. I
hope some of the rest of us can leave a legacy as he did.


Best,

Bill Hamilton







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 16

             Re: Gordon Creighton (FSR) - 1908 - 2003 - Gevaerd

From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO - <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 17:40:53 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 20:57:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Gordon Creighton (FSR) - 1908 - 2003 - Gevaerd


>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 12:39:57 -0800
>Subject: Re: Gordon Creighton (FSR) - 1908 - 2003

>>From: Graham W. Birdsall - UFO Magazine [UK] <gwb@ufomag.co.uk>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 18:37:24 +0100
>>Subject: Gordon Creighton (FSR) - 1908 - 2003

>>From the Editor Of UFO Magazine (Uk)

>>The death has been announced of Gordon Creighton, who died this
>>morning (Wednesday, 16 July, 2003). He was aged 95.

>>Up until his death, the former British Diplomat was Editor of
>>'Flying Saucer Review', one of the oldest and most respected UFO
>>journals in the world.

>>Graham W. Birdsall, Editor of UFO Magazine, said: "Gordon
>>Creighton was arguably one of Ufology's greatest ever
>>proponents. For the best part of 50 years, he sought out
>>information on the phenomenon from around the world, and his
>>lasting legacy will be that which he came to publish in 'Flying
>>Saucer Review'. He was a remarkable man in every respect, and
>>the world of Ufology will mourn his passing."

>Graham,

>Another great one gone! He contributed a lot over the years. I
>hope some of the rest of us can leave a legacy as he did.


Graham, Wendy and Bill:

Gordon was a real legend in the field. He was a great
researcher, editor and incentivator. And he spoke several
languages, including chinese. Fluently. He also spoke
Portuguese, as he worked in the UK Embassy in Recife many years
ago. While he was here he investigatedsome of our best
cases. It was his phrase "the most amazing case of all",
referring to the Villas Boas' sexual relations with an alien in
the 50s.

Indeed... Another great one gone!

Sadly.

A. J.







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 16

               Re: Scientists Say Crop Circles Were No Prank -

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 17:16:43 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 21:26:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Scientists Say Crop Circles Were No Prank -


>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 12:49:39 -0700
>Subject: Re: Scientists Say Crop Circles Were No Prank

<snip>

>>"The idea is that the meteoric debris is both drawn into the
>>descending plasma vortex by its strong magnetic field and then
>>heated to a molten state by the microwaves emitted by the
>>spiraling plasma," Talbott wrote in the report. "The molten, and
>>now magnetized particles then form spheres and particles with
>>partially rounded surfaces as they cool on the way down to the
>>earth's surface and are left in the soil in the crop circle area
>>as the plasma vortex impacts the field.

>If it's not a hoax, it's far more likely a craft generating the
>vortex.

Ed,

Why a "craft"?

I remain convinced that _some_ crop formations are true
anomalies. But I think it's a grave error to immediately invoke
ET "craft" as an explanation. While luminous phenomena have been
seen near the locations of crop circles, presumably during their
formation, they don't seem to be of the structured variety
sought by nuts-and-bolts ufologists. UFOs, yes. "Craft" --
 probably not in any meaningful sense. That doesn't mean there
isn't an intelligence behind the circles.

=====
>Mac Tonnies (macbot@yahoo.com)

Explore MTVI @ http://www.mactonnies.com

Posthuman Blues: http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com (daily blog)








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 16

             Re: Gordon Creighton (FSR) - 1908 - 2003 - Auchettl

From: John Auchettl <Praufo@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 20:10:37 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 21:32:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Gordon Creighton (FSR) - 1908 - 2003 - Auchettl



>From: Graham W. Birdsall - UFO Magazine [UK] <gwb@ufomag.co.uk>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 18:37:24 +0100
>Subject: Gordon Creighton (FSR) - 1908 - 2003


>From the Editor Of UFO Magazine (Uk)

>The death has been announced of Gordon Creighton, who died this
>morning (Wednesday, 16 July, 2003). He was aged 95.


Gordon was a friend, he was colourful, helpful, thoughtful and
an interesting human, who devoted endless energy to the subject.
FSR was a benchmark and a stable platform for Ufology to hang
it's hat when others fell by the 'UFO trail', that stability and
print record will be Gordon's legacy.

He had a good innings, will be sadly missed.


John Auchettl
Director - PRA


Phenomena Research Australia [PRA]
P.O. Box 523, Mulgrave, Victoria, Australia, 3170
Australian & Asia UFO
1961-2003 - 42 YEARS OF RESEARCH SERVICE








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 17

               Re: Scientists Say Crop Circles Were No Prank -

From: Michel M. Deschamps <ufoman@interlynx.net>
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 02:43:03 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:51:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Scientists Say Crop Circles Were No Prank -


>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 17:16:43 -0700 (PDT)
>Subject: Re: Scientists Say Crop Circles Were No Prank

>>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 12:49:39 -0700
>>Subject: Re: Scientists Say Crop Circles Were No Prank

><snip>

>>>"The idea is that the meteoric debris is both drawn into the
>>>descending plasma vortex by its strong magnetic field and then
>>>heated to a molten state by the microwaves emitted by the
>>>spiraling plasma," Talbott wrote in the report. "The molten, and
>>>now magnetized particles then form spheres and particles with
>>>partially rounded surfaces as they cool on the way down to the
>>>earth's surface and are left in the soil in the crop circle area
>>>as the plasma vortex impacts the field.

>>If it's not a hoax, it's far more likely a craft generating the
>>vortex.

>Why a "craft"?

>I remain convinced that _some_ crop formations are true
>anomalies. But I think it's a grave error to immediately invoke
>ET "craft" as an explanation. While luminous phenomena have been
>seen near the locations of crop circles, presumably during their
>formation, they don't seem to be of the structured variety
>sought by nuts-and-bolts ufologists. UFOs, yes. "Craft" --
>probably not in any meaningful sense. That doesn't mean there
>isn't an intelligence behind the circles.

Hi guys,

Personally... when the first plain circles were found in the
early 1990s, I thought they might have been landing traces...
but soon after... and since then, I've learned pretty quickly
that they're separate phenomena or aspects connected to... or
part of... the ET factor.

I don't think the circle creators are craft either, but
definitely something unearthly, for sure!


Cordially,

Michel M. Deschamps








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 17

                             Hessdalen Question

From: Catherine Reason <CathyM@ukf.net>
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:13:33 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:17:15 -0400
Subject: Hessdalen Question


Hello List

I have just been re-reading Paul Devereux's book "Earthlights
Revelation" (Blandford Press, 1989) and have a question
regarding the Hessdalen project.

In Chapter 7 of the book, Devereux says that the 1984 report on
the Hessdalen project, the authors failed to notice any
correlation between seismicity and the appearance of light
phenomena. He then makes the claim that a correlation did in
fact exist, and presents a histogram to illustrate the point
(Fig 21 of Chapter 7).

I apologize if this is old news, but I found this a bit odd and
so I calculated the product-moment correlation coefficient for
the data Devereux presents in his histogram. I did this using a
pencil and paper and pocket calculator and these numbers are
only approximate, but unless I made some ghastly error the
results are as follows:

N = 24 (with 2 missing from N = 26)
Pearson's r = 0.21 (approx)

Even for a one-tailed test, this does not approach any of the
usually accepted significance levels and accounts for roughly 4%
of the variance. I did a similar calculation for the
Sundsval/Harnosand data presented later in the same chapter (Fig
22) with the following results:

N = 34
Pearson's r = .064 (approx)

Not only is this correlation also non-significant (despite a
larger sample-size) but it accounts for less than 0.4% of the
variance.

Admittedly the Fig 21 data do not strictly count as interval
level data, and one might argue that the product-moment
correlation coefficient is an inappropriate statistical measure.
I have not so far calculated the Spearman rank-order coefficient
for these data, I may get around to this in the next couple of
days. But by any consideration, these correlations are not
impressive. It seems to me that on the basis of the data
presented in his own book, Devereux is incorrect to claim that a
"distinct" or "strong" correlation exists, and that the
Hessdalen team were right to assert that no such correlation was
present.

I wonder if anyone has any more detailed or up-to-date
information on this, or on any other claimed correlation between
light phenomena and seismicity.


Cathy

[See: Discussions at:

http://www.google.com/custom?q=Hessdalen+%2B+Devereux&sa=Google+Search&cof=GIMP%
3A%23ffffff%3BT%3A%23ffffff%3BLW%3A137%3BALC%3A%23ffffff%3BL%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.
virtuallystrange.net%2Fimages%2Fvsnsrch1.gif%3BGFNT%3A%23ffffff%3BLC%3A%23ffffff
%3BLH%3A150%3BBGC%3A%23000000%3BAH%3Acenter%3BVLC%3A%23ffffff%3BGL%3A2%3BGALT%3A
%23ffffff%3BAWFID%3A0c3ec42176cbf84b%3B&domains=virtuallystrange.net&sitesearch=
virtuallystrange.net

 --ebk]







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 17

                    Re: What Is Real In Ufology - Hebert

From: Amy Hebert <amyhebert@sbcglobal.net>
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:14:19 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:20:22 -0400
Subject: Re: What Is Real In Ufology - Hebert


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 13:14:13 -0300
>Subject: Re: What Is Real In Ufology

>>From: Amy Hebert <amyhebert@sbcglobal.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 07:13:54 -0500
>>Subject: Re: What Is Real In Ufology

<snip>

>>>Thank goodness the members of the judicial branch of government
>>>don't agree with you. We'd have one hell of a legal system
>>>without the testimony of credible eye witnesses. Or is it that
>>>you think that only witnesses reporting sightings of UFOs are
>>>not to be trusted.

>>Are you asking me a question, John, or just misinterpreting my
>>comments?

>Misinterpreting? Not al all. I hear you loud and clear. But how
>else is one to respond to the list of absurd statements that you
>have made?

You could respond with less sarcasm and simply address the
issues at hand. If you don't like what I say, John, that's your
right. But you don't need to twist my words and meanings to
reflect your own personal bias towards me.

If you are asking me a question and sincerely want to know if I
think witnesses reporting sightings of UFO's are not to be
trusted, the answer is: I think many factors are involved and
should be taken into consideration in the analysis of any such
encounter. It is not a matter of trust, it's a matter of
conducting thorough and objective investigations, asking
important questions and avoiding personal bias as much as
possible.

>One such statement was the following: "Some people see UFO's in
>every blob, spot or blur they find in photographs or over their
>house while others see UFO's in ancient art, the bible and jet
>contrails."

>While this may be true, you fail to mention that you are/were
>one of these 'uncritical' people yourself.

First, let me make it clear that the use of the term
'uncritical' is your choice, not mine. It's not even a word
according to Webster's Dictionary.

Second, I deliberately combined a negative statement and a
neutral statement, twice in the same paragraph, to see how my
comments would be interpreted and by whom. You responded.

Re-read my statements below:

"I have found the study of UFO's to be much more detailed and
complex than just what was seen and who saw it. People do not
always tell the truth nor do all people perceive the same
'truths'. Some people see UFO's in every blob, spot or blur they
find in photographs or over their house while others see UFO's
in ancient art, the bible and jet contrails. Some people see the
lights of a jetliner at night and call it a "UFO" or "flying
triangle" while others see UFO's in NASA images from space and
from Mars. Are we to assume every person who says they saw a UFO
actually saw a 'real' UFO? Are all UFO sighting reports to be
considered "real"?"

The point of that paragraph was that people do not always
perceive the same 'truths'. When I said, "Some people see UFO's
in every blob, spot or blur", I was indicating that there are
people misinterpreting photographic images as UFO's due to their
own personal beliefs and bias. But the second part of that
statement where I said, "others see UFO's in ancient art, the
bible and jet contrails", was neutral.

Instead of asking me if I think there may be UFO's in ancient
art, the bible (note that I did not capitalize the word "bible"
- another kind of stimulus-response test) or contrails, you
jumped to the conclusion that I was debunking or dismissing
these concepts as nonsense when I wasn't. Personally, I don't
know if there are or were any UFO's in ancient art, the bible or
contrails and I leave the question open until further evidence
is forthcoming. I don't believe or disbelieve. I'm just keeping
my mind open on these issues and avoid jumping to conclusions
either way.

When I said, "Some people see the lights of a jetliner at night
and call it a "UFO" or "flying triangle", I was indicating that,
like it or not, there _are_ people misinterpreting airplane
lights in the sky at night and calling them UFO's or flying
triangles. We, as investigators and researchers, can't just bury
our heads in the sand and pretend every UFO sighting report is
on the money and totally accurate. To do so only distorts the
resulting data and computations pushing the truth about UFO's
even further from our grasp.

But when I added, "others see UFO's in NASA images from space
and from Mars", no value judgments were indicated either
positive or negative. It was neutral. I don't know if there are
UFO's in NASA images from space nor do I know if there are UFO's
in the images sent back from Mars. Again, I wait and continue to
gather data and information before reaching conclusions in these
matters. You, John, attached your own meanings to the neutral
statements I made according to your interpretation of the
"truth" and your beliefs about me and my research.

As for me being "uncritical", that is _your_ made-up word for
_your_ opinion of me - not necessarily my opinion or everyone
else's opinion. I do not have to include myself in your made-up
categories if I don't agree...and I don't.

>I recall you sending
>me a photograph of some smears on a glass door that you believed
>was the imprint left behind by an grey alien as it passed
>through it. At the time I was a bit taken back by how gullible
>you are, but here you are a few years later pointing your finger
>at others of the same ilk. Amazing! Like someone who quit
>smoking after many years who is overly critical of others who
>still smoke. <lol>

Ah, John, you fail to mention that you offered to "enhance" the
images and send me copies, which you did. You were the one who
said, what appeared to be a mere handprint to me, looked "three
dimensional" and sent me several images to illustrate your
point. At no time did you say it looked like "some smears on a
glass door" nor were you honest enough to say how "gullible" you
thought I was. Why did you wait almost 5 years to finally
express your true thoughts and feelings?

Had I known you would later distort the information I shared to
attack me on a public forum, I would not have sought your help
as an experiencer and researcher. Many people have asked my help
in the analysis of images and information but I keep these
confidences private until I obtain that person's permission to
publish. I hope you don't do this with other people who seek
your advice and help. It's not very ethical.

In addition, I doubt I would have called it a "grey alien" since
the main witness described most of the beings she saw as white.
I preferred to call them 'beings' rather than "aliens" and did
so throughout the article. The title of my article contained the
word "alien" because it was taken from one of the main witness'
description of how it appeared to her at the time.

BTW, I did quit smoking after 7 years as a smoker. But because I
know how hard it is to quit smoking, I am very sympathetic
towards those who want to quit as well as those who want to
smoke. It does not help to criticize people for their habits, it
is more important to recognize and understand the underlying
causes.

>You may currently wear the clothes of a sober skeptic, Amy.
>But 'some of us' know you better than that.

John, since we have never met in person and you hardly know me
at all, how could you possibly know what I am 'wearing' at any
given time? If you would spend a little more time _listening_ to
what I'm trying to say rather than projecting your own distorted
beliefs into everything, you might find I have an entire
'wardrobe' you have yet to experience.

>>I'm talking about the process of stimulus-response patterns
>>(according to the field of psychology) in relation to UFO
>>sightings and reports.

>Your first mistake is in considering psychology a reliable or
>trustworthy science of any kind. The field of psychology is full
>of more mumbo-jumbo than just about any other. I wouldn't put
>much stock in what you read unless you have carefully researched
>it yourself.

No, John, it's _your_ mistake because you prefer to make it all
up as you go thus limiting the research tools at your disposal.
Sciences can only provide guidelines for continued learning and
basic structures of analysis upon which to build. It's up to the
_individual_ to make his or her contributions reliable and
trustworthy not science.

>Question:

>Please, tell me which psychological journal or treatise deals
>with the stimulus-response "patterns" in relation to UFO
>sightings and reports. I was unaware that any "patterns" had
>been discovered or published in any text books or professional
>journals. What are these "patterns" that you speak of and where
>were they published? 'Who' conducted the study and how was it
>done?

Well, some of the studies I like best are still packed away (we
have been in the process of moving) but there is one report you
may wish to review, if you haven't already. I don't particularly
like the bias of this report but it does give a fair outline of
the processes involved in stimulus-response patterns in relation
to UFO sightings and reports.

Please try not to block the information outright just because it
was contained in the Condon Report. The basic concepts involved
in perception and cognition are presented fairly well and can be
used as an introduction to further (hopefully less biased)
research along these lines.

Publication:

Scientific Study of Unidentified Flying Objects
Conducted by the University of Colorado
Under contract to the United States Air Force
Dr. Edward U. Condon, Scientific Director
Daniel S. Gillmor, Editor
Copyright =A9 1968 by The Regents of The University of Colorado

- subsequently published in reports of the United States Air
Force and other governmental agencies and was published
commercially by Bantam Books

Section VI - The Scientific Context

Perceptual Problems
by Michael Wertheimer
http://ncas.sawco.com/condon/text/s6chap01.htm

and

Processes of Perception, Conception, and Reporting
by William K. Hartmann
http://ncas.sawco.com/condon/text/s6chap02.htm

One statement from the introduction of Chapter 3 (Section VI)
best reflects my own philosophy concerning eye-witness
reports...

"An open-minded investigator, honestly endeavoring to understand
UFO phenomena, cannot dismiss eye-witness reports, which to date
represent the only information he has. Neither can he accept
such reports without scrutiny, for there are many possibilities
for error and distortion. An initial attitude of "benevolent
skepticism," as suggested by Walker (1968) in his excellent
article on establishing observer creditability, seems
appropriate to the evaluation of eye-witness observations."

I don't think eye-witness reports should be dismissed but
neither can these reports be totally accepted without some
scrutiny and an awareness of the perceptual and cognitive
processes involved. Above all, it is most important to keep an
open mind and neither believe nor disbelieve or the risk of bias
may become a detriment to the endeavor.

>>John, if you would respond to the
>>concepts under discussion rather than take personal snipes at
>>me, we might be able to learn from each other.

>'Personal snipes?' I _am_ responding to the "concepts" under
>discussion. Perhaps it is _you_ who misinterpret and play slight
>of hand games because of some ulterior motive or agenda. Hmmm?

>I'm always honest and straight forward in my questions and
>comments. Unlike yourself who tries to hide your passive/
>aggressive hostility towards me behind a thin and veneer of mock
>civility. How about _you_ address some of what is being said
>rather than trying to paint my end as "personal" in hopes of
>minimizing their impact or validity somehow.

>It's a cheesy/sleazy, debate tactic.

No, John, I just refuse to stoop to your level of conversation
and prefer to remain as tactful as possible.

>Stop playing misdirection games with me, Amy. You did the same
>thing when I asked you to consider including a few "UFOs" in
>your "IFO" lesson thread. Instead of responding to the valid
>points and questions I raised, you chose to misdirect attention
>away from them by answering my questions with more questions and
>by arguing semantics.

No, John, I _did_ answer your questions, you just didn't like my
answers. And no matter how many times I answer your questions, you
will continue to demand more. What do you hope to accomplish by
continually demanding answers from those with whom you disagree?

This is the last time I am going to answer this question, John.
No matter how much you kick, scream and stomp, my answer will
remain the same. Take it or leave it.

I considered including a few "UFO's" in my IFO lessons but felt
that since it was about IFO's, not UFO's, then that's where I
would focus. And since my IFO Database is about IFO's, I decided
not to include images of alleged UFO's because...it's my website
and I am going to do with it as I please. Any information I may
have relating to UFO's will be posted in another section of a
new web site I am currently building. There you will find
"UFO's" to your heart's content.

>Now you seek to do the same thing here by
>labeling my comments as 'personal.' Give that nonsense a rest
>will you. Why don't _you_ try responding to what is being said
>rather than wasting so much energy trying to paint it all as
>'personal.' Honestly, if you must know, what I feel about you
>can be more accurately described as indifference.

>You have to 'care' first before you can feel anger or resentment
>toward someone. I simply don't know you well enough to 'care'
>that much about you one way or the other. I hope that doesn't
>come off as too harsh... it's just the honest truth. How's that
>for "what is 'real' in ufology"? :)

You're right, you don't know me.

A. Hebert








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 17

               Re: Scientists Say Crop Circles Were No Prank -

From: Joachim Koch <shar@kochkyborg.de>
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:29:01 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:09:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Scientists Say Crop Circles Were No Prank -


>From: Michel M. Deschamps <ufoman@interlynx.net>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 02:43:03 -0500
>Subject: Re: Scientists Say Crop Circles Were No Prank


>Personally... when the first plain circles were found in the
>early 1990s, I thought they might have been landing traces...
>but soon after... and since then, I've learned pretty quickly
>that they're separate phenomena or aspects connected to... or
>part of... the ET factor.

>I don't think the circle creators are craft either, but
>definitely something unearthly, for sure!

Hi Michel,

Being a witness of this Phenomenon since 1991 on the spot
in England I can agree with what you wrote above.

As far as I know there exists no report of a European
researcher who claimed to have seen a 'craft' leaving a
crop circle behind. The 'Oliver Castle Video' hoax is
researched and exposed as such.

The Crop Circle Phenomenon up to the early 1990s created
genuine formations which is now completely taken over by
human teams. The Crop Circle Phenomenon of all times
inbetween appeared as Balls of Light (See L.M.Howe's
book)and created unhoaxable energy patterns inside and
around fields. The Crop Circle Phenomenon of nowadays is
only to be found by dowsing (which is a very powerful and
cosmic and spritual and mental human activity)in certain
activated fields.

Neither a 'craft'nor a meteorite has ever reportedly
created a crop circle in Europe.

Sorry to say, but if what I saw is the Californian 'crop
circle' which everybody and even scientists do speak of -
this thing is so ugly (from the picture - I wasn't
there)that it wouldn't pass established standards of crop
circle research.

And if a certain ET agenda (same valid for human
agenda)has tried to jump on the band waggon in California-
then they should practise a bit. :-))

All the best,

Joachim







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 17

                     Re: What Is Real In Ufology - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 14:35:00 -0300
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:14:33 -0400
Subject: Re: What Is Real In Ufology - Velez


>From: Amy Hebert <amyhebert@sbcglobal.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:14:19 -0500
>Subject: Re: What Is Real In Ufology

>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>>Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 13:14:13 -0300
>>Subject: Re: What Is Real In Ufology

>>>From: Amy Hebert <amyhebert@sbcglobal.net>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 07:13:54 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: What Is Real In Ufology

><snip>

>>>>Thank goodness the members of the judicial branch of government
>>>>don't agree with you. We'd have one hell of a legal system
>>>>without the testimony of credible eye witnesses. Or is it that
>>>>you think that only witnesses reporting sightings of UFOs are
>>>>not to be trusted.

>>>Are you asking me a question, John, or just misinterpreting my
>>>comments?

>>Misinterpreting? Not al all. I hear you loud and clear. But how
>>else is one to respond to the list of absurd statements that you
>>have made?

Hello All,

Amy writes:

>You could respond with less sarcasm and simply address the
>issues at hand. If you don't like what I say, John, that's your
>right. But you don't need to twist my words and meanings to
>reflect your own personal bias towards me.

In my last note to you I believe I _clearly_ stated the
following:

>>Honestly, if you must know, what I feel about you
>>can be more accurately described as indifference.

I don't have any "bias" personal or otherwise towards you Amy.
All that is in your head. That's what I meant when I said that
you are misdirecting the discussion by constantly depicting my
motives as "personal." I figure it's just a way for you to
artificially inflate the value of your own stock. Regardless,
you really should let go of any notions that I have some kind of
'personal' vendetta against you. I don't. As I said in my last,
I really don't know you well enough to care that much, or to be
affected by you that way.

I'll say it one more time in hopes that it will register: what I
'feel' toward you can be more accurately described as
_indifference_.

>If you are asking me a question and sincerely want to know if I
>think witnesses reporting sightings of UFO's are not to be
>trusted, the answer is: I think many factors are involved and
>should be taken into consideration in the analysis of any such
>encounter. It is not a matter of trust, it's a matter of
>conducting thorough and objective investigations, asking
>important questions and avoiding personal bias as much as
>possible.

You have a habit of stating the obvious and making it sound as
if the person you are speaking to disagrees with it. If you're
going to manipulate the conversation that way, maybe you should
just talk to yourself and cut out the middle-man.

You wrote:

>First, let me make it clear that the use of the term
>'uncritical' is your choice, not mine. It's not even a word
>according to Webster's Dictionary.

C'mon Amy. So what? We use/make-up words/terms all the time in
order to make a point or to describe something in a new way.
"Skeptibunker" is one such coined word. You know exactly what I
mean by "uncritical" and that's all that really matters. Not
whether I coined it for the purpose of this conversation or not.

>Second, I deliberately combined a negative statement and a
>neutral statement, twice in the same paragraph, to see how my
>comments would be interpreted and by whom. You responded.

Frankly I didn't sign on to this List to become anybody's lab
rat. If you want to play at 'psychologist' and conduct
clandestine testing among the members of this List then you
should have the common courtesy to let us know we are being
'tested.'

I resent that kind of presumptive behavior on your part. This
isn't your "personal" classroom or lab for you to do with the
members anything you wish. How dare you?

> We, as investigators and researchers, can't just bury
>our heads in the sand and pretend every UFO sighting report is
>on the money and totally accurate. To do so only distorts the
>resulting data and computations pushing the truth about UFO's
>even further from our grasp.

You left out the all important qualifier "amateur" before the
word 'investigator/researcher'. Unless you have some experience
and credentials that I am unaware of, you are an _amateur._

>You, John, attached your own meanings to the neutral
>statements I made according to your interpretation of the
>"truth" and your beliefs about me and my research.

Says you. You're entitled to your opinions and interpretations,
Amy. But just stating them doesn't make them true or accurate.

>As for me being "uncritical", that is _your_ made-up word for
>_your_ opinion of me - not necessarily my opinion or everyone
>else's opinion. I do not have to include myself in your made-up
>categories if I don't agree...and I don't.

No, it is my 'made-up' word for your behavior. It is not an
'opinion' as much as an 'observation.' There is a difference.

>Ah, John, you fail to mention that you offered to "enhance" the
>images and send me copies, which you did. You were the one who
>said, what appeared to be a mere handprint to me, looked "three
>dimensional" and sent me several images to illustrate your
>point. At no time did you say it looked like "some smears on a
>glass door" nor were you honest enough to say how "gullible" you
>thought I was. Why did you wait almost 5 years to finally
>express your true thoughts and feelings?

I was attempting to spare your feelings at the time. Maybe I
should have let you have it right between the eyes. You may have
become more thoughtful and critical sooner.

"My bad" as they say. ;)

I asked:

>>Question:

>>Please, tell me which psychological journal or treatise deals
>>with the stimulus-response "patterns" in relation to UFO
>>sightings and reports. I was unaware that any "patterns" had
>>been discovered or published in any text books or professional
>>journals. What are these "patterns" that you speak of and where
>>were they published? 'Who' conducted the study and how was it
>>done?

Your response:

>it was contained in the Condon Report.

Man, I'm not even going to dignify that with a response. The
"Condon Report?" You ought to know better than to use a
discredited piece of crap like that as reference material. Much
less use it as 'credible' material in a debate about UFOs or UFO
reports.

In case you haven't heard... the "Condon Report" was an
_intentionally biased_ and therefore _useless_ piece of garbage.
Period. Unless you wish to cite it as an example of how
shameless and low some people are willing to sink in order to
debunk the UFO phenomenon.

>I don't think eye-witness reports should be dismissed but
>neither can these reports be totally accepted without some
>scrutiny and an awareness of the perceptual and cognitive
>processes involved. Above all, it is most important to keep an
>open mind and neither believe nor disbelieve or the risk of bias
>may become a detriment to the endeavor.

Again you state the obvious as if it is 'original' with you.
BTW, you apparently consider yourself to be a "researcher" or
"investigator" now-a-days. Have you done _any_ 'original' work
in the field?

Please, don't even mention the Rod stuff. All you did there was
'duplicate' and quote from someone else's work.

>No, John, I _did_ answer your questions, you just didn't like my
>answers. And no matter how many times I answer your questions, you
>will continue to demand more. What do you hope to accomplish by
>continually demanding answers from those with whom you disagree?

Answers?

>This is the last time I am going to answer this question, John.
>No matter how much you kick, scream and stomp, my answer will
>remain the same. Take it or leave it.

>I considered including a few "UFO's" in my IFO lessons but felt
>that since it was about IFO's, not UFO's, then that's where I
>would focus. And since my IFO Database is about IFO's, I decided
>not to include images of alleged UFO's because...it's my website
>and I am going to do with it as I please.

What a mature response! "It's my toy and I'll do what I want
with it." <lol>

>You're right, you don't know me.

And, from everything I have seen and heard so far, I don't want
to either! ;)

John Velez, Speaking strictly for myself








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 17

               Re: Scientists Say Crop Circles Were No Prank -

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:01:51 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:17:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Scientists Say Crop Circles Were No Prank -


>From: Michel M. Deschamps <ufoman@interlynx.net>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 02:43:03 -0500
>Subject: Re: Scientists Say Crop Circles Were No Prank

>>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 17:16:43 -0700 (PDT)
>>Subject: Re: Scientists Say Crop Circles Were No Prank

>>>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
>>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 12:49:39 -0700
>>>Subject: Re: Scientists Say Crop Circles Were No Prank

>><snip>

>>>>"The idea is that the meteoric debris is both drawn into the
>>>>descending plasma vortex by its strong magnetic field and then
>>>>heated to a molten state by the microwaves emitted by the
>>>>spiraling plasma," Talbott wrote in the report. "The molten, and
>>>>now magnetized particles then form spheres and particles with
>>>>partially rounded surfaces as they cool on the way down to the
>>>>earth's surface and are left in the soil in the crop circle area
>>>>as the plasma vortex impacts the field.

>>>If it's not a hoax, it's far more likely a craft generating the
>>>vortex.

>>Why a "craft"?

Mac, Michel,

I believe that the UFO responsible for crop circles and angel
hair are nuts and bolts machines, perhaps biological, but from
this dimension, our dimension.

I don't know exactly how they might look, but the UFO
responsible for angel hair are usually described as very shiny,
orb-like crafts that disappear after releasing the angel hair.
The craft drawn by the cameraman is certainly of this world, and
the debris in the AA footage is real, though unusual. I also
think that the simplest explanation for crop circles is that
they are created by someone above, from a solid craft
(platform), for unknown reasons.

Or they could all be hoaxes, which I doubt.

I have no experience with other dimensions so I can't comment on
the likelihood that something from beyond is responsible for
this phenomena.

>>I remain convinced that _some_ crop formations are true
>>anomalies. But I think it's a grave error to immediately invoke
>>ET "craft" as an explanation. While luminous phenomena have been
>>seen near the locations of crop circles, presumably during their
>>formation, they don't seem to be of the structured variety
>>sought by nuts-and-bolts ufologists. UFOs, yes. "Craft" --
>>probably not in any meaningful sense. That doesn't mean there
>>isn't an intelligence behind the circles.

There is definitely an intelligence behind the circles, but is
it alien?

>Personally... when the first plain circles were found in the
>early 1990s, I thought they might have been landing traces...
>but soon after... and since then, I've learned pretty quickly
>that they're separate phenomena or aspects connected to... or
>part of... the ET factor.

I don't understand this statement. Crop circles have been
recorded for over one hundred years. The earliest were simple
circles in hay and corn fields. It's only lately that they've
become so elaborate.

>I don't think the circle creators are craft either, but
>definitely something unearthly, for sure!

I'm not so sure they're "unearthly".

Ed








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 17

                   Reports Of UFOs Flooding Into UK Group

From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:26:32 -0300
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:22:34 -0400
Subject: Reports Of UFOs Flooding Into UK Group


Source: Express & Star -  Wolverhampton UK

http://www.expressandstar.com/artman/publish/article_37198.shtml

Reports Of UFOs Flooding Into Group

By John Corser

A Black Country UFO research group has had a big increase in
reports of unexplained lights in the sky since the start of the
hot spell.

Stourbridge-based Uform says it is getting reports every day of
sightings of unexplainable lights and objects in the sky.

Group member Yvonne South said there appeared to be increasing
activity in the "Himley Triangle" around the epicentre of the
Dudley earthquake in September last year. And two unusual events
were reported in Dudley on Monday and Brierley Hill on Tuesday
night.

"An unexplainable silver spinning ball was seen briefly between
Dudley Castle and the Black Country Museum on Monday around 1pm.
It remained in the sky for seconds before disappearing.

"On Tuesday night an object was seen in the Brierley Hill area
at approximately 11.45pm which travelled in the direction of
Pensnett turned very sharply then disappeared instantly.

"These sightings are from credible witnesses who know the
difference between, aircraft, balloons, satellites and the
rising stars. There are probably even more sightings that we are
totally unaware of," she said.

"It is well documented that UFO's are seen before an earthquake
occurs and also when volcanos erupt. Uform is watching the skies
with an open mind," she added.

The group also has video footage of an unexplainable object
which was seen in the Gornal/Himley area at about 1pm on June 29
and also last month had reports of sightings from Stourport,
Kidderminster and Worcester.

"One of our own Uform members witnessed an unexplainable orange
ball of light on July 8 near Hartlebury Common."

She appealed for anyone with information about the Black Country
sightings or other unexplainable objects in the sky to contact
Uform on 07941 833842.











   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 17

                  Mother Kept Mummified Daughter For Aliens

From: Eustquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:30:25 -0300
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:24:36 -0400
Subject: Mother Kept Mummified Daughter For Aliens



Source: Yahoo News - Reuters

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=3Dstory&cid=3D573&ncid=3D757&e=3D6&u=
=3D/nm/20030717/od_nm/life_kazakhstan_corpse_dc

Thu Jul 17, 8:31 AM ET

ALMATY (Reuters) - A distraught Kazakh mother kept her
daughter's mummified corpse in her apartment for three years
hoping she would be resurrected by aliens, police said on
Thursday.

Police spokeswoman Nina Tsys told Reuters by telephone from the
town of Pavlodar in northern Kazakhstan that Olga, 27, was
believed to have died from an autoimmune disorder after her
mother failed -- or declined -- to call for medical help.

She said Olga's cousin, worried by her long absence, had
repeatedly tried to see her, but the mother would always refuse
to let him in under various pretexts. Finally police broke in
and made the gruesome discovery.

"We believe death was from natural causes, although due to the
long time that had passed we can't be absolutely sure," Tsys
said. "At least we found no signs of vandalism."

Popular Kazakh daily newspaper Vremya carried a picture of the
mummified body, with withered limbs and parched skin, lying on a
plain bed in the flat in this industrial town.

Vremya suggested the mother -- a former nurse -- could have
known how to treat the body to preserve it.

Tsys said the mother appeared to have been influenced by a sect
preaching "cosmology" that promised resurrection of her child
with the help of a "third cosmic eye" or by aliens.

She said the mother was undergoing medical checks at a
psychiatric clinic. Her daughter's remains had been given a
proper burial.









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 17

                              UFO Frauds Redux

From: Don Ecker <decker0726@comcast.net>
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:28:01 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:46:01 -0400
Subject: UFO Frauds Redux


Greetins All on UpDates.

13 months ago a thread was launched on UpDates concerning
credibiltiy in UFO research as conducted and relayed by
different names in the field. One name that surfaced was "Guy
Kirkwood" who is also known by another name "Mel Noel."
Kirkwood/Noel is well known to UFO Magazine. I conducted an
expose of Kirkwood/Noel's claims of being a F-86 Sabre Jet pilot
and commerical pilot in Vol. 7 Number 3 of UFO Magazine in May,
1992. I also uploaded that expose to Updates and if you are
interested here is a link.

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/1997/aug/m29-017.shtml

On June 03, 2002 list member Bill Hamilton wrote;

June 03, 2002 Bill Hamilton

"I noticed that Kevin Randle has agreed with Stanton Friedman on
Mel Noel (AKA Guy Kirkwood) and his story while he flew an F-86
Sabre jet back in 54. I recently talked with Guy at Rachel and
he passed around his military record of honorable discharge
(DD214) together with several pages of a United Airlines roster
with his name on it while he worked for that company. I saw no
evidence of record tampering, but these records could not be
found by public access. I do not have copies of these at this
time, but I have also seen photos of Guy in flight gear in the
cockpit of an F-86 when looking much younger. I suspect that
someone has tampered with his records as discovered by an FAA
investigator a few years ago when Guy was flying a private plane
and had to make an emergency landing on a freeway."

That same day, June 03, 2002 Stanton Friedman stated:

"It seems amazing that suddenly Guy Kirkwood comes up with a
DD214 even though Linda Howe gave him plenty of time to do so a
few years back after we had a big session at the Hilton Hotel in
LA with Guy.His first excuse was that it was in a box that fell
off the truck when he moved. Another extension ; no form. He
also claimed to have flown DC-8s for United, but could not
provide a copy of his card for the Airline Pilots Association
though he claimed membership.They didn't have him listed under
any of the 3 names he has used. I checked the FAA for his pilot
credentials. He was cleared for single engine aircraft. The DC8
has 4 big ones. He claimed to have graduated from Cheshire
Academy.I checked with them, he had only attended for a few
months and no graduation.There was also a letter from the Air
Force denying that anybody by any of his names had been an Air
Force pilot. His story about what happened (being threatened by
a supposed CIA agent brother of the host,Bob Dornan,) on a TV
show when he was exposed, was a flat out lie. I would suggest he
is a consumate con-man.That is a left handed compliment."

On June 04, 2002 another user, GT McCoy wrote;

"Ok, What unit, regular, air guard, and for how long? Irritates
me with these weasels who claim military service, It is easy to
check them out (If you know what you are doing). Like what model
of F-86? How do you start it? what was the armament? (this one
separates the A's (machine guns, 50cal. to be exact) from the
D's (Rockets)..or the all flying tail what do you know about
that?"

The point being that if Kirkwood/Noel had actual background as a
military pilot he could answer these questions, show documents
and prove his status. This is not to mention that I gave
Kirkwood/ Noel a year to provide documents which he never
did...not even to this day.

Bill Hamilton promised to get the information as shown here.

June 04, 2002

"Good questions GT. I will get the answers for you but since Guy
does not yet have email I will have to rely on the telephone or
mail and if you have more specific questions, please forward to
me.

We waited and waited but the answers were not forthcoming but
then on June 07, 2002 Bill Hamilton made this statement.

"This is a conclusion to reach when you just read articles and
don't do real research enough to know which parts of this
article are inaccurate.

Bill H."

Up to this point I had decided to stay out of this exchange but
then my expose was accused of not being accurate. I decided to
throw my 2 cents into the ring.

June 07, 2002

"First, before we ever printed the article on Guy the Shyster,
I had him sitting in my kitchen and gave him the proofs to read
and if he chose to refute anything, he had his chance even
before the article ran. By a month.

Next I gave him the chance, and waited OVER ONE YEAR for him to
produce his DD 214.

I interviewed Don Dornan for the article. For those of you that
do not know who he is, his brother was Rep. Robert Dornan of
Orange County Calf. or as he is known..... B 1 Bob Dornan.
Dornan interviewed Kirkwood, Noel, Cornwall back in the 60's
about his story. Bob Dornan was a F-100 Super Sabre Pilot and he
knew Kirkwood was full-of-it. Exposed him on LA TV. Etc. etc.
etc. I could go on but what is the use?

Now Bill Hamilton... what is inaccurate?"

Bill answered me with this;

"Hey, Pal, this is the attitude that doesn't get us anywhere in
this field. I will only post the info once I have it all
correct. I am not taken by anything because everything is
provisional with me. The trouble is everything is conclusive
with you."

We waited and waited but nothing was forthcoming. Bill exchanged
a series of emails with GT McCoy, where McCoy gave questions to
Hamilton for Kirkwood/Noel to answer. According to GT McCoy
Kirkwood/Noel failed his test that any military F-86 driver or
DC 8 pilot would know.

The bottom line is very simple. Since it has been 13 months and
Bill Hamilton never came up with the proof, I think it is time
he admitted he was wrong about my expose not being accurate. I
sincerely doubt however that Bill will. But if Kirkwood/Noel has
his DD 214 why not furnish a copy to us and I will do a complete
retraction in the pages of UFO Magazine if I am wrong about him
being a fraud. That seems to be very fair, doesn't it? After all
I have waited over a year, what do you say Bill?


Don Ecker
Research Director
UFO Magazine
www.ufomag.com









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 17

                  Mother Kept Mummified Daughter For Aliens

From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:30:25 -0300
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:51:31 -0400
Subject: Mother Kept Mummified Daughter For Aliens



Source: Yahoo News - Reuters

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=573&ncid=757&e=6&u=/nm/20030717/
od_nm/life_kazakhstan_corpse_dc

Thu Jul 17, 8:31 AM ET

ALMATY (Reuters) - A distraught Kazakh mother kept her
daughter's mummified corpse in her apartment for three years
hoping she would be resurrected by aliens, police said on
Thursday.

Police spokeswoman Nina Tsys told Reuters by telephone from the
town of Pavlodar in northern Kazakhstan that Olga, 27, was
believed to have died from an autoimmune disorder after her
mother failed -- or declined -- to call for medical help.

She said Olga's cousin, worried by her long absence, had
repeatedly tried to see her, but the mother would always refuse
to let him in under various pretexts. Finally police broke in
and made the gruesome discovery.

"We believe death was from natural causes, although due to the
long time that had passed we can't be absolutely sure," Tsys
said. "At least we found no signs of vandalism."

Popular Kazakh daily newspaper Vremya carried a picture of the
mummified body, with withered limbs and parched skin, lying on a
plain bed in the flat in this industrial town.

Vremya suggested the mother -- a former nurse -- could have
known how to treat the body to preserve it.

Tsys said the mother appeared to have been influenced by a sect
preaching "cosmology" that promised resurrection of her child
with the help of a "third cosmic eye" or by aliens.

She said the mother was undergoing medical checks at a
psychiatric clinic. Her daughter's remains had been given a
proper burial.







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 17

              Re: Gordon Creighton (FSR) - 1908 - 2003 - Rimmer

From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 20:52:34 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:54:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Gordon Creighton (FSR) - 1908 - 2003 - Rimmer


>From: John Auchettl <Praufo@aol.com>
>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 20:10:37 EDT
>Subject: Re: Gordon Creighton (FSR) - 1908 - 2003

>>From the Editor Of UFO Magazine (Uk)

>>The death has been announced of Gordon Creighton, who died this
>>morning (Wednesday, 16 July, 2003). He was aged 95.

>Gordon was a friend, he was colourful, helpful, thoughtful and
>an interesting human, who devoted endless energy to the subject.
>FSR was a benchmark and a stable platform for Ufology to hang
>it's hat when others fell by the 'UFO trail', that stability and
>print record will be Gordon's legacy.

>He had a good innings, will be sadly missed.

>John Auchettl
>Director - PRA

We all regret the passing of Gordon Creighton, and look with
amazement and admiration at the scope of his life and learning,
and particularly his mastery of languages as esoteric as
Mongolian and Tibetan, as well as Chinese and a number of
European tongues. All our sympathy goes to his family and
friends.

However our respect must not blind us to the fact that far from
being "a benchmark and a stable platform" for ufology, Flying
Saucer Review became during his stewardship a mouthpiece for his
own bizarre and eccentric views, which included a fair amount of
extreme right-wing politics.

If anyone made FSR a "benchmark" it was his predecessor Charles
Bowen, who inherited and developed a magazine which truly was a
forum for all that was best in UFO research and comment. Under
Bowen FSR welcomed voices as varied as Jacques Vallee, Donald
Menzel, Jerome Clark, Jenny Randles,  Richard Haines - in fact
most of the major UFO investigators - and sceptics - of the day.
I've just picked a couple of copies from my file, and in three
issues from 1980 I find major articles and reports by Bill
Chalker, Leonard Stringfield, Ann Druffell, Jenny Randles, Aime
Michell and Maurizio Verga.

Under Bowen's editorship Gordon Creighton did much invaluable
work, translating interesting UFO cases from foreign-language -
 particularly Latin-American - newspapers, including the ground-
breaking Vilas Boas case some correspondents have already
mentioned. However, without Bowen's steadying influence, under
Gordon Creighton's control FSR became almost the private
property of a very small group of people, mostly dominated by
the eccentric Puerto Rican researcher Jorge Martin and his
obsession - shared by Creighton - with bloodsucking djinns.

I crossed swords once with Creighton, when he began to promote a
curious conspiracy theory that public libraries in Britain were
acting under government orders to remove 'pro-UFO' books from
their stock. As a professional librarian responsible for library
stock ordering, I pointed out that I had never received such
instructions, nor had any of my colleagues. A letter to Crighton
to this effect merely resulted in the ending of the exchange
arrangement with MUFOB magazine that had been established more
than a decade earlier between John Harney and Charles Bowen.

One must admire Gordon Creighton's great energy and enthusiasm,
and I am sure those who knew him are right when they testify to
his friendliness and helpfulness; and to be actively editing a
magazine at the age of 95 is no mean feat.

But let us not allow the myth to develop that Creighton's tenure
with FSR produced a magazine that was either influential, or
helpful to ufology. On the contary: he took a magazine which was
well-respected and represented the mainstream  of intelligent
UFO research, and reduced it to the mouthpiece of an eccentric
cult.

--

John Rimmer
Magonia Magazine
www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/00/newmag.htm






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 17

             Re: Reports Of UFOs Flooding Into UK Group - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:41:14 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:07:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Reports Of UFOs Flooding Into UK Group - Hatch


>From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
>To: UFO UpDates -Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:26:32 -0300
>Subject: Reports Of UFOs Flooding Into UK Group

>Source: Express & Star -  Wolverhampton UK

>http://www.expressandstar.com/artman/publish/article_37198.shtml

>Reports Of UFOs Flooding Into Group

>By John Corser

>A Black Country UFO research group has had a big increase in
>reports of unexplained lights in the sky since the start of the
>hot spell.

>Stourbridge-based Uform says it is getting reports every day of
>sightings of unexplainable lights and objects in the sky.

>Group member Yvonne South said there appeared to be increasing
>activity in the "Himley Triangle" around the epicentre of the
>Dudley earthquake in September last year. And two unusual events
>were reported in Dudley on Monday and Brierley Hill on Tuesday
>night.

<snip>

>The group also has video footage of an unexplainable object
>which was seen in the Gornal/Himley area at about 1pm on June 29
>and also last month had reports of sightings from Stourport,
>Kidderminster and Worcester.

>"One of our own Uform members witnessed an unexplainable orange
>ball of light on July 8 near Hartlebury Common."

>She appealed for anyone with information about the Black Country
>sightings or other unexplainable objects in the sky to contact
>Uform on 07941 833842.


Hello all:

Two questions for anyone involved:

1) What are the bounds of the "Black Country" of England? This
has been referred to before.

2) Since when is Mars, now in its closest approach in tens of
thousands of years, an "inexplicable orange ball of light"?


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 17

                    Investigator Question on Object Shape

From: Todd Lemire <tlemire@comcast.net>
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:52:54 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:08:28 -0400
Subject: Investigator Question on Object Shape


Hello Listers,

Has anyone in their travels come across a sighting report
describing an object shape similar to the alphabetic letter 'H'?


Todd Lemire








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 17

                    UFO UpDates Off-Line Until July 25th

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:14:49 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:14:49 -0400
Subject: UFO UpDates Off-Line Until July 25th





Gentle Subscribers & Readers,

That time of the year is upon us again.....

This moderator needs to take a break. Consequently UFO UpDates
will be on hiatus until Friday July 25th.

Please hold your responses/posts until the evening of Thursday
July 24th.


Many thanks for your participation and interest,

Errol Bruce-Knapp

["Goin' up the country, got to get away....." -- Canned Heat]








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 18

               Re: Scientists Say Crop Circles Were No Prank -

From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:54:00 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 14:00:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Scientists Say Crop Circles Were No Prank -


>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:01:51 -0700
>Subject: Re: Scientists Say Crop Circles Were No Prank

>>From: Michel M. Deschamps <ufoman@interlynx.net>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 02:43:03 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Scientists Say Crop Circles Were No Prank

>>Personally... when the first plain circles were found in the
>>early 1990s, I thought they might have been landing traces...
>>but soon after... and since then, I've learned pretty quickly
>>that they're separate phenomena or aspects connected to... or
>>part of... the ET factor.

>I don't understand this statement. Crop circles have been
>recorded for over one hundred years. The earliest were simple
>circles in hay and corn fields. It's only lately that they've
>become so elaborate.

Sorry, but this is not the case. Where is the evidence for these
century old crop-circles? There is the famous "Mowing Devil"
broadsheet from the 18th century, the relevance of which to
crop-circles is marginal, to say the least. There are a few
anamalous marking and swirls in crops recorded from the 1970s
(like the infamous "Tully Saucer Nests" in Queensland) which are
more analogous to wind damage than the neat circles of the '80s
and '90s.

The origin of the crop circle phenomenon was Southern England in
the 1980s. There was nothing before then even remotely similar.

Consider this: right at the heart of English crop circle country
lies the town of Warminster. In the 1960s and 1970s this town
was absolutley awash with ufologists from all around the world
looking for 'The Thing'. Every weekend ufologists climbed every
hill in the vicinity looking for UFOs - in the sky and possibly
landed as well - and there was only one report which, in
retrospect, could have been interpreted as a crop circle.

So if they've been around for years - centuries even - why were
they not an integral part of the UFO story during this period?
Almost everything else which happened in Warminster has been
recorded in a UFO context in the writings of Arthur Shuttlewood
and dozens of others who were there at the time.


John Rimmer
Magonia Magazine
www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/00/newmag.htm







                         The UFO UpDates Archive
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 18

                       Re: UFO Frauds Redux - Hamilton

From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:00:52 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 14:13:58 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Frauds Redux - Hamilton


>From: Don Ecker <decker0726@comcast.net>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:28:01 -0700
>Subject: UFO Frauds Redux

>Greetins All on UpDates.

>13 months ago a thread was launched on UpDates concerning
>credibiltiy in UFO research as conducted and relayed by
>different names in the field. One name that surfaced was "Guy
>Kirkwood" who is also known by another name "Mel Noel."
>Kirkwood/Noel is well known to UFO Magazine. I conducted an
>expose of Kirkwood/Noel's claims of being a F-86 Sabre Jet pilot
>and commerical pilot in Vol. 7 Number 3 of UFO Magazine in May,
>1992. I also uploaded that expose to Updates and if you are
>interested here is a link.

>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/1997/aug/m29-017.shtml

>On June 03, 2002 list member Bill Hamilton wrote;

>June 03, 2002 Bill Hamilton

>"I noticed that Kevin Randle has agreed with Stanton Friedman on
>Mel Noel (AKA Guy Kirkwood) and his story while he flew an F-86
>Sabre jet back in 54. I recently talked with Guy at Rachel and
>he passed around his military record of honorable discharge
>(DD214) together with several pages of a United Airlines roster
>with his name on it while he worked for that company. I saw no
>evidence of record tampering, but these records could not be
>found by public access. I do not have copies of these at this
>time, but I have also seen photos of Guy in flight gear in the
>cockpit of an F-86 when looking much younger. I suspect that
>someone has tampered with his records as discovered by an FAA
>investigator a few years ago when Guy was flying a private plane
>and had to make an emergency landing on a freeway."

>That same day, June 03, 2002 Stanton Friedman stated:

>"It seems amazing that suddenly Guy Kirkwood comes up with a
>DD214 even though Linda Howe gave him plenty of time to do so a
>few years back after we had a big session at the Hilton Hotel in
>LA with Guy.His first excuse was that it was in a box that fell
>off the truck when he moved. Another extension ; no form. He
>also claimed to have flown DC-8s for United, but could not
>provide a copy of his card for the Airline Pilots Association
>though he claimed membership.They didn't have him listed under
>any of the 3 names he has used. I checked the FAA for his pilot
>credentials. He was cleared for single engine aircraft. The DC8
>has 4 big ones. He claimed to have graduated from Cheshire
>Academy.I checked with them, he had only attended for a few
>months and no graduation.There was also a letter from the Air
>Force denying that anybody by any of his names had been an Air
>Force pilot. His story about what happened (being threatened by
>a supposed CIA agent brother of the host,Bob Dornan,) on a TV
>show when he was exposed, was a flat out lie. I would suggest he
>is a consumate con-man.That is a left handed compliment."

>On June 04, 2002 another user, GT McCoy wrote;

>"Ok, What unit, regular, air guard, and for how long? Irritates
>me with these weasels who claim military service, It is easy to
>check them out (If you know what you are doing). Like what model
>of F-86? How do you start it? what was the armament? (this one
>separates the A's (machine guns, 50cal. to be exact) from the
>D's (Rockets)..or the all flying tail what do you know about
>that?"

>The point being that if Kirkwood/Noel had actual background as a
>military pilot he could answer these questions, show documents
>and prove his status. This is not to mention that I gave
>Kirkwood/ Noel a year to provide documents which he never
>did...not even to this day.

>Bill Hamilton promised to get the information as shown here.


Don,

It is not my place to come up with the proof. It is Guy's place
and he chooses not to.

You were inaccurate in your article in that Guy's 2 middle names
are Mel Noel - he has three middle names between Guy and
Kirkwood.

I saw his documents as have others. However, he does not make
copies of them so I have dropped this altogether as now he has
not satisfied my criteria for investigation.

G.T. McCoy did submit questions to ask of Kirkwood. On the F-86
questions, he scored a 100% as McCoy acknowledged. He did not do
the same on the DC-8 question of "suitcase handles". I asked the
same question of John Lear as a test and John did not hesitate
to come up with the right answer.










   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 18

              Re: Gordon Creighton (FSR) - 1908 - 2003 - Clark

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 23:25:46 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 14:22:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Gordon Creighton (FSR) - 1908 - 2003 - Clark



>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 20:52:34 +0100
>Subject: Re: Gordon Creighton (FSR) - 1908 - 2003

>>From: John Auchettl <Praufo@aol.com>
>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>>Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 20:10:37 EDT
>>Subject: Re: Gordon Creighton (FSR) - 1908 - 2003


Listfolk:

>>Gordon was a friend, he was colourful, helpful, thoughtful and
>>an interesting human, who devoted endless energy to the subject.
>>FSR was a benchmark and a stable platform for Ufology to hang
>>it's hat when others fell by the 'UFO trail', that stability and
>>print record will be Gordon's legacy.

>We all regret the passing of Gordon Creighton, and look with
>amazement and admiration at the scope of his life and learning,
>and particularly his mastery of languages as esoteric as
>Mongolian and Tibetan, as well as Chinese and a number of
>European tongues. All our sympathy goes to his family and
>friends.

>However, our respect must not blind us to the fact that far from
>being "a benchmark and a stable platform" for ufology, Flying
>Saucer Review became during his stewardship a mouthpiece for his
>own bizarre and eccentric views, which included a fair amount of
>extreme right-wing politics.

I've snipped most of John Rimmer's message simply because the
whole of it is there in his original posting. I just want to say
that though John and I often disagree, on his assessment of
Gordon Creighton's career and role in ufology we are in full
concurrence. John explicates the decidedly mixed Creighton
record with insight, eloquence, and compassion. I couldn't have
expressed it better myself.

Creighton certainly deserves credit for the translating work he
did, making non-English-language materials available to us
monolingual types. Beyond that, he was - I'm afraid I'm going to
have to speak frankly - a crank and a paranoid. FSR fell from
respectability, coherence, and intellectual seriousness under
his stewardship, and became almost entirely irrelevant to
whatever productive paths modern ufology pursues.

I have no doubt that Gordon Creighton the human being, whom I
did not know, had his virtues, but Gordon Creighton the
ufologist, whom I did, left much to be desired. Those seeking a
quick lesson in the extraordinarily eccentric views Creighton
espoused are referred to pages 414-15 of my UFO Encyclopedia,
2nd Ed. In that entry I cite an earlier assessment by John
Rimmer, who observed as long ago as 1984 that under Creighton
FSR was no longer a "serious UFO journal.... From now on ... it
will be of interest largely to paranoid cultists, conspiracy-
mongers, and students of fringe literature." Sad to say, the
nearly two decades of FSR that followed proved John exactly
right.


Jerry Clark








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 19

               Re: Scientists Say Crop Circles Were No Prank -

From: Michel M. Deschamps <ufoman@interlynx.net>
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 23:35:41 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 14:49:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Scientists Say Crop Circles Were No Prank -


>From: Joachim Koch <shar@kochkyborg.de>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>)
>Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:29:01 +0100
>Subject: Re: Scientists Say Crop Circles Were No Prank

>>From: Michel M. Deschamps <ufoman@interlynx.net>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 02:43:03 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Scientists Say Crop Circles Were No Prank

>>Personally... when the first plain circles were found in the
>>early 1990s, I thought they might have been landing traces...
>>but soon after... and since then, I've learned pretty quickly
>>that they're separate phenomena or aspects connected to... or
>>part of... the ET factor.

>>I don't think the circle creators are craft either, but
>>definitely something unearthly, for sure!

>Hi Michel,

>Being a witness of this Phenomenon since 1991 on the spot
>in England I can agree with what you wrote above.

>As far as I know there exists no report of a European
>researcher who claimed to have seen a 'craft' leaving a
>crop circle behind. The 'Oliver Castle Video' hoax is
>researched and exposed as such.

>The Crop Circle Phenomenon up to the early 1990s created
>genuine formations which is now completely taken over by
>human teams. The Crop Circle Phenomenon of all times
>inbetween appeared as Balls of Light (See L.M.Howe's
>book)and created unhoaxable energy patterns inside and
>around fields. The Crop Circle Phenomenon of nowadays is
>only to be found by dowsing (which is a very powerful and
>cosmic and spritual and mental human activity)in certain
>activated fields.

>Neither a 'craft'nor a meteorite has ever reportedly
>created a crop circle in Europe.

>Sorry to say, but if what I saw is the Californian 'crop
>circle' which everybody and even scientists do speak of -
>this thing is so ugly (from the picture - I wasn't
>there)that it wouldn't pass established standards of crop
>circle research.

>And if a certain ET agenda (same valid for human
>agenda)has tried to jump on the band waggon in California-
>then they should practise a bit. :-))

>All the best,

Just curious...

But the video you mentioned wouldn't be the one where a
snowflake pattern appears within seconds as two separate pairs
of small "balls of light" swoop over the area?

I've seen UFOs on several occasions, and they sometimes move in
a graceful manner as we see on that video.

Sorry to say this but I believe that footage to be genuine...
the gentle swooping movement of the "objects" coincides with
typical maneuvrability of UFOs of certain type.  I'd like to see
conclusive proof that this has been proven to be a hoax.

The funny thing is...even Nancy Talbott of the BLT team admits
that the evidence seem to indicate that these crop patterns are
formed within seconds....and yet, someone has managed to
inadvertently get footage of this, and everyone seems to have
jumped to the conclusion that he must have faked it because "It
Just Can't Be!"

Well, here's one case where the evidence is biting folks in the
ass, and still, they refute it!?

I want to see the data that proves that footage was hoaxed!


Cordially,

Michel M. Deschamps







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 19

              Re: Investigator Question on Object Shape - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 23:21:19 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 14:54:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Investigator Question on Object Shape - Hatch


>From: Todd Lemire <tlemire@comcast.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:52:54 -0400
>Subject: Investigator Question on Object Shape

>Hello Listers,

>Has anyone in their travels come across a sighting report
>describing an object shape similar to the alphabetic letter 'H'?

>Todd Lemire

- - - - -

Hello Todd:


I could only find two H-shaped UFOs, and one of those morphed
into a saucer shape and back again!

#13039: 1978/05/15  02:00h d=5m   03:13E  46:38N WEU FRN ALR
MONTILLY><BAGNEUX,FR:8M H-SHAPED OBJ FOLOS CAR:
WHT BEAM shines up from DOME on TOP:see drawing
/r194 LUMIERES dans la NUIT.(LDLN France)  Issue No. 184

#16455: 1993/10/06  21:10h  d=5m  01:46W  53:02N WEU GBI ENG
A52/ASHBOURNE,DERBYs:2/CAR:H-SHAPE BECOMES SCR then H AGAIN:
FOLOS CAR:FLASHES
Ref# 97 MISCELLANEOUS JOURNALS.  Footnote 12

That last reference:  Misc. Journals #12 traces back to: UFO
MAGAZINE (UK). Quest International. Graham Birdall, ed. P.O. Box
2, Grassington, Skipton, N.Yorks BD23 5UY. Bimonthly.

I only had 1 or 2 issues here, it was probably from one of
those, and little hope of finding it.  I do not have Volume and
Issue # nor date of publication, probably the mid 1990s.

While scanning my database for "H-shaped" objects, I found a lot
of fish and dish-shaped ones.  I will spare you those!

In spite of the 15 years between the two sightings above, and
the venues in two separate European countries, the synopses of
events sound strangely alike, nearly identical.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch

= = = =






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 19

              Re: Investigator Question on Object Shape - Groff

From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 02:31:51 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 14:55:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Investigator Question on Object Shape - Groff


>From: Todd Lemire <tlemire@comcast.net>
>Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:52:54 -0400
>Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:08:28 -0400
>Subject: Investigator Question on Object Shape

>Hello Listers,

>Has anyone in their travels come across a sighting report
>describing an object shape similar to the alphabetic letter 'H'?

>Todd Lemire

I've never encountered a sighting of an object shaped like an
"H" but I remember seeing a photo many years ago of a discoid
craft with a symbol on it similar to the letter "H".


Terry Groff







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 19

                       Chupacabras in La Palmill Chile

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 08:04:15 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 14:59:49 -0400
Subject: Chupacabras in La Palmill Chile


SOURCE: Diario La Cuarta
DATE: July 17, 2003

CHUPACABRAS IN LA PALMILLA?

Terror spreads among farmers of La Palmilla, 6th Region.
Guard dogs did not bar

Chupacabras Stomachs 29 Chickens

Sedate residents of the La Palmilla sector of the peaceful
commune of Rauco in the 6th Region were startled to find 29 hens
with their legs in the air, completely exsanguinated and with
twin holes on their necks. The peasantry was shocked at the find
and without thinking twice, assigned blame to the now-legendary
"Chupacabras" who had attacked again.

They had no doubts in their minds, because aside from the holes,
the hens - which were all egg layers - were completly dry, as
though some unknown beast had sucked their last drop of blood.

Still trembling from their fear of the "Chupacabras" and
concerned by the loss of the birds, the residents noted that the
deaths had occurred simultaneously in two neighboring houses on
Tuesday morning.

What is strange about the matter and causes the belief in a
supernatural animal partial to vampirism is that no resident
heard nouses, which is very strange given the fact that hens
tend to be very vocal if attacked. Even the guard dogs in both
houses never realized what was going on, and never made a fuss.

The first attack affected the home of Maria Carolina Bravo, who
lost 24 hens. According to this woman, upon inspecting the
henhouse she found a hole through which some animal or the
"Chupacabras" could have gotten through. The woman did not hear
any sounds eather.  Martha Varas was left speechless when she
found five dead hens, slain in the same mysterious fashion, in
her backyard.

Carabineros (state police) of the Rauco Barracks appeared
immediately and witnessed the inexplicable hen slaying for
themselves.

===========================================

Translation (C) 2003. Scott Corrales IHU
Special thanks to Gloria Coluchi.







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 19

                         Gordon Creighton Biography

From: Graham W. Birdsall- UFO Magazine [UK] <gwb@ufomag.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 15:50:57 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 15:01:29 -0400
Subject: Gordon Creighton Biography


Here is a brief biography of the late Gordon Creighton written
and forwarded to me by Paul Whitehead, FSR Director, July 16th
2003. It was approved by Philip Creighton, Gordon's son.

Best regards,


Graham W. Birdsall, (Editor)
UFO Magazine [UK]

- START -

Gordon Creighton, who died peacefully with his family at his
bedside on July 16th,  was born in 1908. His first years were
spent on a farm, in Hertfordshire (near where he will be buried,
just outside Rickmansworth, in the cemetery where his wife,
Joan, is buried).

He ran around bare foot for a few years, on the farm  - with his
grandfather standing in for his parents. He used to drink milk
straight from cows - which is how he contracted tuberculosis.
 His friend died from the disease, but Gordon survived after an
operation.

When he did eventually go to school (age 11?), it was discovered
that he had a bent for being multilingual and academic.  This
combination led him to a career in the diplomatic service, with
elements of the secret service thrown in.

He never learned to drive a car, as his job - which took him to
Brazil and China and the US - came with chauffeur driven cars.

He had some lucky turns. He survived the very heavy
shelling/bombing of Shanghai by the Japanese in the 1930s. He
had to leave China, and went to Sydney. A ship that he was due
to leave on for England (but didn't) sank en route - sunk by the
Germans, after WWII had started.  He instead caught a boat that
sailed east from Sydney, to South America. This sailed up the
east coast of South America; Gordon had to disembark (in Brazil,
I think) and was airlifted to the US because he was very ill. In
a storm, the ship that he had been on broke up, with large or
total loss of life; not surprising, the ship was in fact the
front and rear sections of two other ships that had been welded
together and was thus inherently weak, structurally.

Gordon worked in the UK for the UK government for some years.
 His interest in UFOs had been aroused in China in the 1930s, if
my memory serves me, and he eventually joined Flying Saucer
Review (FSR), where his multilinguism and very sharp memory were
to prove very useful for many years.

I first met Gordon (and his wife) in 1984. I remember on several
occasions - during (very stimulating) discussions on religion,
the meaning of life, philosophies and ufology - when he would
say Oand this is mentioned on page  xxx in xxx book=B9 - and he
would go to hIs vast array of books and take down a book and
show me the page he was referring to. Or he would refer to an
obscure back issue of FSR, and show it to me.

Gordon will be remembered for his vast knowledge of philosophies
and religions, and of the ufo/'flying saucer'/'alien' subject,
and his sense of humour. He will be remembered by many people
for his interests outside of Ufology - religion and politics,
for example, and his continued interest in China - her culture,
religions and politics. And he will have been pleased to know
that his resting place will be so close to his beloved adopted
home town of Rickmansworth in Hertfordshire.

Gordon leaves twin children - Philip and Roz. Philip will be
known to readers of FSR for the work he has undertaken - and
continues to undertake -   for the magazine.

Gordon=B9s funeral is at St Mary's Church, Church St,
Rickmansowrth, 12.30pm, Tuesday 5th August.

- END -







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 19

                       Re: UFO Frauds Redux - Aldrich

From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 11:3:6 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 15:24:44 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Frauds Redux - Aldrich


>From: Don Ecker <decker0726@comcast.net>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:28:01 -0700
>Subject: UFO Frauds Redux

>Greetins All on UpDates.

>13 months ago a thread was launched on UpDates concerning
>credibiltiy in UFO research as conducted and relayed by
>different names in the field. One name that surfaced was "Guy
>Kirkwood" who is also known by another name "Mel Noel."
>Kirkwood/Noel is well known to UFO Magazine. I conducted an
>expose of Kirkwood/Noel's claims of being a F-86 Sabre Jet pilot
>and commerical pilot in Vol. 7 Number 3 of UFO Magazine in May,
>1992. I also uploaded that expose to Updates and if you are
>interested here is a link.

>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/1997/aug/m29-017.shtml

<snip>

>Don Ecker
>Research Director
>UFO Magazine
>www.ufomag.com


Bravo! I gald you didn't let this die. You certainly allowed
more than enough time for a rebuttal!

I first read about Mel Noel in Max Miller's flying saucer book.
Even as a teenage his story was not credible to me, however,
over the years he has taken in hundreds of people, some of whom
I know are critical thinkers and do have high standards for
evidence.

This guy is an excellent con-man, he could probably sell ice to
Eskimos. I am not surprised that people still back him up after
decades of his bunk. He did brag about his exploits with women,
I think these stories are probably true as he has such
convincing lines.

Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
http://www.project1947.com/
P. O. Box 391
Canterbury, CT 06331
(860) 546-9135







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 19

             CI: Underground City Images Analysis Un-Convincing

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 17:25:06 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 15:29:27 -0400
Subject: CI: Underground City Images Analysis Un-Convincing


Cydonian Imperative
7-18-03

Close Analysis of "Underground City" Images Fails to
Convince
by Mac Tonnies

Lots of links.  See:
http://www.mactonnies.com/cydonia.html (page 40)


In 2002, Mars anomalists heatedly debated the authenticity of an
infra-red image which supposedly depicted grid-like structures
below the surface of Cydonia. No clear-cut answer to the
controversy ever surfaced, but the majority of commentators,
myself included, found the "underground city" presented by
Richard Hoagland and Mike Bara (of the Enterprise Mission) less-
than-compelling. (For my editorial on the alleged "city," see
page 34.)

[image]

Portion of alleged infrared (IR) photo showing rectilinear
"underground structures."

While most exo-archaeologists have considered the issue buried
(pun intended), Mike Bara has peered long and hard at the
potentially incriminating image and claims to have located areas
where the presumed "invisible" features (seen only in the
infrared spectrum) concur with features evident on visible-
wavelength imagery. This is a rousing claim, to be sure, and
Bara opens his new article with a scalding attack on his
critics:

"Last year, when the Enterprise Mission released indisputable
proof of massive-city like ruins buried underneath the ice at
Cydonia ("Ghost Town ... And The Darkness" 9/5/2002), we were
almost universally attacked by various harping critics in the
so-called 'anomalist community.' These critics, many of whom
operate at the fringes of the Cydonia question and fancy
themselves as self appointed arbiters of what constitutes
'valid' lines of Cydonia research, seemed unable to cope with
the reality of what they were Facing [sic]."

Bara's new article, posted on the stimulating Lunar Anomalies
website, goes on to challenge the above "harping critics" to
explain what he suggests is irrefutable evidence that the
controversial IR image is a valid representation of the Cydonia
region. One wonders why the renewed assault; after all, the
Enterprise Mission pronounced "case closed" last year.
Regardless, I eagerly downloaded Bara's new graphics, wondering
if I was in for a surprise.

Bara's "evidence" is a severe disappointment. His three
explanatory graphics add nothing to the assertion that Cydonia
is home to subterranean ruins. The first image attempts to
isolate an intriguing square-shaped anomaly near the D&M Pyramid
(easily seen in visible light) and show its "mirror" in the
contested IR image. The square in question is, indeed,
interesting. But its proposed IR "twin" is much less so. For
starters, it's not square, but a distinctly elongated rectangle.
And, embarrassingly, it doesn't even share the square's axis.
Hardly the "match" it's presented as.

As I wrote last year regarding the rather psychedelic
"underground ruins," encountering isolated moments of
superficial agreement between the dubious IR image and visible-
light photos is probably inevitable; the images in question
cover a lot of terrain, and both are littered with interesting
shapes. In this sense, it's remarkable that the best the "pro"
side of the argument can come up with is a relatively tiny
feature that fails to match what we see in Cydonia images of
known provenance.

Bara next treats us to a mosaic of "extreme close-ups" familiar
to readers of the Enterprise Mission. When I first examined this
image I actually thought it had downloaded only partially: there
is no visible-light counterpart! One can pontificate endlessly
about what the suspect image shows, but Bara's argument --
 demonstrated by his opening paragraph - is that features in the
IR enhancement should be visible in "normal" images as well. So
without a "normal" image with which to show any proposed
matches, Bara's second image is effectively worthless. It fails
as evidence by functioning under the assumption that the case
for subterranean architecture is closed. Bara's personal bias
comes as no particular surprise, and there's nothing
intrinsically wrong with it. But it dodges the very challenge
Bara pretends to set up for his "harping critics." (What, one
wonders, is Bara's definition of "harping"? Pointing out blatant
logical inconsistencies?)

There's one more graphic that purports to prove the reality of a
sprawling, mostly buried city. This time we're treated to an
actual visible-light counterpart, so it's not quite the exercise
in time-wasting as the former graphic. But it's a close call. So
far as I can determine, the parallel Bara wants us to be able to
see is an "underground" continuation of a ridge formation near
the Cydonia City complex. I'm not going to comment. Look at the
graphic yourself. Take a good, long look at the other two while
you're at it, if you haven't already. Is this the undeniable
evidence Bara thinks it is? Or is this a desperate attempt to
breathe new life into a false unknown?

Lastly, I don't think Bara is being disingenuous. I think he has
made an unconscious ideological commitment to the spurious
buried city and, consequently, is afraid to see it evaporate.
It's an easy position to sympathize with. And while I have,
indeed, attacked Bara's evidence, I have not - and will not --
 attack Bara himself. I like his Lunar Anomalies site and agree
with him that probable artificial structures await us on both
the Moon and Mars.

Let's get on with it.

-end-






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 19

                        Re: UFO Frauds Redux - Gates

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 23:49:45 EDT
Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 15:31:41 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Frauds Redux - Gates


>From: Don Ecker <decker0726@comcast.net>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:28:01 -0700
>Subject: UFO Frauds Redux


>Greetins All on UpDates.

>13 months ago a thread was launched on UpDates concerning
>credibiltiy in UFO research as conducted and relayed by
>different names in the field. One name that surfaced was "Guy
>Kirkwood" who is also known by another name "Mel Noel."
>Kirkwood/Noel is well known to UFO Magazine. I conducted an
>expose of Kirkwood/Noel's claims of being a F-86 Sabre Jet pilot
>and commerical pilot in Vol. 7 Number 3 of UFO Magazine in May,
>1992. I also uploaded that expose to Updates and if you are
>interested here is a link.

>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/1997/aug/m29-017.shtml

<snip>

This was a case I followed with interest when it was on UpDates.
Bottom line to all of this is the following.

1) Even if Kirkwood/Noel provides a copy of his DD 214, it is
meaningless until somebody can independently verify via request
through the national records center that this in fact is
correct. Think of the various "document" problems in the UFO
community during the last 30 years.

2) As I recall at the time (13 months ago) I volunteered to make
the records request if somebody would provide all the necessary
information about Kirkwood/Noel.

That way if folks were too busy, I was more then happy to fill
in.

Nobody bothered to provide any information and the entire matter
has been ignored until Don has mentioned it again...which I am
glad he did.

I eagerly wait to see if anything floats up.

Cheers,

Robert






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 19

                       UFO Sighting OZ Files 07-19-03

From: Diane Harrison - AUFORN <auforn@hypermax.net.au>
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 18:47:00 +1000
Fwd Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 15:47:36 -0400
Subject: UFO Sighting OZ Files 07-19-03


UFO Sighting OZ Files 19.07.03

Source: 1800 UFO Hotline call  2999 12.06.03  NSW

Date of Sighting (s):8th June and the 12th June, 03
Time: 19:45hrs  (8th)   19:55hrs and 21:15hrs(12th)
Location: Adamstown, Newcastle NSW
Duration of Sighting (s): One hour (8th) 10-15 min. x 2 (12th)
Size of all Objects: One quarter size of 5 cent piece
Colour of Objects:Orange/amber (orb)
Noise: Nil
Shape: Star (orb) Bright: faded in and out
Objects observed: 8th June (3) 12th June (2)
Other Witnesses: 8th June (husband) 12th June
(Husband and friend)
Name of Reportee: Sue

Report:

Sue and her husband were in their loungeroom on Sunday the 8th
June when they noticed an amber coloured light through their
window.  It was moving from North to South and apparently was
lower than the usual planes that fly from South to North on a
regular basis. They noted it was around 19:45hrs and when they
went out to get a better view they noticed their was no noise
and the amber/orange colour of the object seemed to fade in and
out and looked as if the size was fluctuating as well.

They also spotted another two moving down the coast within an
hour of the last sighting.  They were all the same colour and
size and were also heading in the same direction.

On Thursday the 12th of June, they observed the same objects,
one at 19:55hrs and another at 21:15hrs. Sue contacted
Williamstown Air Force base who stated they did not have any
planes out that night.  Sue then contacted us.

END OF REPORT

Regards Karen Burden UFOR NSW/AUFORN Investigator


Source: 1800 UFO Hotline call  2998 12.06.03  NSW

Date of Sighting (s): 11th June, 03
Time: 17:30hrs
Location: Sydney NSW
Duration of Sighting: 15 - 20 minutes
Size of all Objects: One 16th the size of a five cent
piece at arms length Colour of Objects: White
Noise:Nil
Shape: Star like
Objects observed: Two (2)
Other Witnesses: Nil
Name of Reportee: Pam

Report:

Pam was on her coffee break at TAFE CBD and was standing outside
on the balcony when she noticed a bright star in the sky. She
stated that she was watching it when an object came along side
it? and remained stationary.  She then noted another one
approaching that also pulled up to the right of the object but
some distance from it.  She thought it strange.  She watched
them for over ten minutes when the one who had arrived last,
moved off.

Just then she noted that the one she had noticed in the first
place was moving towards her direction.  Pam stated it was
heading East, towards the Ocean.

END OF REPORT

Regards Karen Burden UFOR NSW/AUFORN Investigator


Source: 1800 UFO Hotline call  3014  25.06.03  NSW

Date of Sighting: 25.6.03
Time: 18:00hrs
Location: Great Western Highway in Lithgow NSW
Duration of Sighting:  2 - 3 minutes
Size of all Objects: Basketball held at arms length
Objects: White/green
Noise:?
Shape: Round
Objects observed: Three (3)
Other Witnesses: Nil
Name of Reportee: Graham M

Report:
 Graham M, was driving home from work on Wednesday 25th June, it
was around 6pm. He pulled up at an intersection on the Great
Western Highway in Lithgow and noticed 3 bright white lights in
the western sky, about 20 degrees above the horizon.  As his
eyes adjusted to what he was looking at he could make out a
round object with a white light in the front, one either side
and a green flashing light emanating from the back section. It
was just sitting there as if it was looking around. Graham M,
thought it must be a helicopter, so he wound down his window to
get a better view.

He was amazed that there was no sound coming from the object and
it was so close, as big as a basketball held at arms length.
Graham M,  had stopped at the intersection and thought other
cars must also have stopped to look, but when he looked around
him there were no other cars on the road. After 2 or 3 minutes
he got a strange feeling that they could see him and were
watching him so he started to drive on. When next he looked the
object was gone, just vanished.

While I was interviewing Graham M, during his recollection he
realised  that it was strange  there were no other cars on the
road during his sighting. 6pm Great Western Highway is usually
busy. The next day he told his workmates about his sighting and
they all said he was crazy, but Graham M, said I know what I
saw.


Investigator Larraine Cilia
U.F.O.society Western Sydney: Affiliated AUFORN


Source: 1800 UFO Hotline call 3008 20.06.03 NSW

Date of Sighting: 20:6:03
Time: 19:45hrs to 19:50hrs
Location: Moss Vale NSW
Duration of Sighting:  2 - 3 minutes
Size of all Objects: Star
Objects: Yellow
Noise: Nil
Shape: Star like
Objects observed: Two (2)
Other Witnesses: Wife
Name of Reportee: James

Report:

On Friday evening 20th June at 7.45pm to 7.50pm James observed
what he perceived to be an aeroplane on fire or an asteroid. He
was walking along the pathway to his house in Moss Vale, facing
North West, when he noticed 2 bright yellow objects in the sky.

They were starlike but very bright and as he looked he saw a
bright piece fall off the first object. He called his wife out
to see also. James said that they were tracking south, slowly
dropping in altitude he and his wife eventually lost sight of
them behind trees. He was pretty sure it was an aircraft on fire
and expected to see it on the News, but there was no mention. He
bought the newspaper next day expecting to read about it, but
once again there was no mention.

He rang the military at Goulburn because the sighting was over
Goulburn way, but got a negative response. He thought then that
it must have been an asteroid, meteorite, comet or something and
he rang the observatory. Once again he got a negative response.
He finally rang the hotline number declaring to me, I'm a non
believer, but this was quite odd. Please let me know what it
was, it must have been something. I explained to James about the
garbage bag phenomena, but he said no, it was nothing like that.

Investigator Larraine Cilia
U.F.O.society Western Sydney: Affiliated AUFORN
Thank you Karen and Larraine for these followups.

--

Regards Diane Harrison

National Director of The Australian UFO Research Network
Australian Skywatch Director

~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
THE AUSTRALIAN UFO RESEARCH NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

E-Mail: auforn@hypermax.net.au
E-mail: ufologist@hypermax.net.au
http://www.hypermax.net.au/~auforn

ADMINISTRATION:

PO Box 738
Beaudessert 4285
QLD  Australia
Tel 07 55 44 6888
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
Australian UFO Research Network Hotline Number
          1800 77 22 88 Freecall
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>

All NEW UFO Bookshop at
http://www.contactpublishing.com








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 20

               Re: Richard Gere: Future Victim Of 'Mothman' -

From: Loren Coleman <lcolema1@maine.rr.com>
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 22:19:52 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 16:53:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Richard Gere: Future Victim Of 'Mothman' -


Just ran across this... written by Ian Rogers on June 10th...

>From: Ian Rogers <onemoreshadow@rogers.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 08:00:53 -0400
>Subject: Re: Richard Gere: Future Victim Of 'Mothman'


>Gere could break his leg ten years from now and Coleman will
>probably be saying, See, told ya.

>So very sad.

Actually, of course, the Richard Gere angle is something the
media reporter put on it. I was not responsible for the headline
or spin of that Wireless News story, of course. Sometimes it is
okay to kill the messenger, I guess.

Anyway, I merely was engaging in an intellectual exercise, to
make a point. Such a big deal is made out of the "Poltergeist"
movie curse (even a "true" on snopes' Urban Legends page) but
only 4 deaths are connected to that movie's "curse." However,
for Mothman, as of today, July 20th, there are 75 deaths that
can be loosely linked to Mothman:

http://www.lorencoleman.com/mothman_death_list.html

Take it or leave it. I'm not evangelical about it, folks. I'm
still alive and so is Keel, right? :-)


Loren







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 21

                            Abduction In Finland?

From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm@arrakis.es>
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:20:00 +0200
Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:54:57 -0400
Subject: Abduction In Finland?


I am looking for information about a possible abduction in
Finland in July 31, 1981 investigated by "the famous astronomers
Juhani Kyrolair and Pekka Teerikorpi (authors of a UFO book) at
Helsinki University" according to the APRO Bulletin note I have.

If anybody can help, please contact me off-list:

lrgm@arrakis.es

Luis R. Gonzalez Manso








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 21

                          Secrecy News -- 07/21/03

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:46:28 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 17:17:37 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 07/21/03


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2003, Issue No. 61
July 21, 2003


**      WHITE HOUSE DEFENDS STANCE ON IRAQ WMD
**      CUBA SAID TO JAM US BROADCASTS TO IRAN
**      NEW FRUS VOLUME ON VIETNAM
**      NIXON NSC FILES OPENED
**      JUSTICE DEPT IG REPORT ON PATRIOT ACT
**      HISTORICAL INTEL BUDGET DATA SOUGHT


WHITE HOUSE DEFENDS STANCE ON IRAQ WMD

"The President of the United States is not a fact-checker."

That is how a senior Administration official explained the fact
that President Bush was oblivious to disputes within the
executive branch over the status of Iraq's nuclear weapons
program.

At a July 18 briefing, the official sought to defend the view
that Saddam Hussein's Iraq was engaged in the reconstitution of
its nuclear program, citing newly declassified portions of an
October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate.  The transcript of
that background briefing is here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2003/07/wh071803.html

Much of the controversy on this point has revolved around a set
of forged documents purporting to show that Iraq sought to
purchase uranium from Niger.  Images of the forgeries, as
published by the Italian paper La Repubblica, were posted by
Cryptome.org here:

http://cryptome.org/niger-docs.htm

Administration officials stressed, however, that the allegation
that Iraq sought uranium from Africa has never depended solely
on the forged Niger documents.


CUBA SAID TO JAM US BROADCASTS TO IRAN

The Broadcasting Board of Governors (BBG), an independent U.S.
government agency, last week bluntly accused Cuba of jamming
newly inaugurated U.S. television broadcasts to Iran.

"Cuba's jamming of satellite transmissions is illegal and
interferes with the free and open flow of international
communications," said Kenneth Y.  Tomlinson, the chairman of the
BBG, on July 15. "This action is illegal, represents a major
threat to satellite communication and must be stopped."  See:

http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2003/07/bbg071503.html

The State Department stopped short of endorsing the accusation
against Cuba, but asked the Cuban government to investigate the
matter.

"The interference with ... commercial satellite transmissions
appears to be emanating from the vicinity of Cuba," said State
Dept. spokesman Richard Boucher on July 18.  "It does appear to
be intentional.  So yesterday, we called in Cuban Government
representatives in Washington and we formally requested the
Cuban Government to look into the matter."

In response to press reports, the Cuban government said that the
allegation was false.

"The enemies of the Revolution are desperate to invent
justifications for their aggression," said Ricardo Alarcon,
president of the Cuban National Assembly, on July 17.

Iran has no information about this issue and has held no talks
with Cuba in this regard, said Foreign Ministry Spokesman Hamid-
Reza Assefi, according to Deutsche Presse-Agentur.


NEW FRUS VOLUME ON VIETNAM

U.S. policy towards Vietnam during the last several months of
the Johnson Administration is documented in Foreign Relations,
1964 1968, volume VII, Vietnam, September 1968-January 1969,
published on July 16.  The full text of the new volume is
available online here:

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/frus/johnsonlb/vii/


NIXON NSC FILES OPENED

The National Archives announced last week the opening of 180,000
pages of Nixon Administration National Security Council files.
See:

  http://www.archives.gov/media_desk/press_releases/nr03-55.html


JUSTICE DEPT IG REPORT ON PATRIOT ACT

In the latest semi-annual report on implementation of the USA
Patriot Act, the Department of Justice Office of Inspector
General reported receiving 34 "credible complaints" of abuse by
law enforcement personnel, including allegations of excessive
use of force, illegal search, and verbal abuse.

See the Third Report to Congress on Implementation of Section
1001 of the USA PATRIOT Act, July 17, 2003, here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/doj/oig/patriot071703.html

See also "Report on USA Patriot Act Alleges Civil Rights
Violations" by Philip Shenon, New York Times, July 21:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/21/politics/21JUST.html


HISTORICAL INTEL BUDGET DATA SOUGHT

The Central Intelligence Agency will not oppose a legal motion
to expand the scope of an FAS Freedom of Information Act lawsuit
seeking historical intelligence budget data, Justice Department
attorneys told a court last week.

After CIA said that it was "unable to locate" aggregate
intelligence budget data from 1947 and 1948, we proposed to
amend our lawsuit to encompass aggregate as well as subsidiary
agency total figures from 1947 through 1970.

Despite a strange misreading of the papers, government attorneys
said they would not oppose the motion.  See:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/foia/1947/cia071603.html

We have proposed a settlement agreement that could bring the
case to an expedited conclusion.


_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood@fas.org
voice:  (202) 454-4691







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 21

                Chupacabras Prints To Be Studied By GEO Group

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:07:58 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 17:21:37 -0400
Subject: Chupacabras Prints To Be Studied By GEO Group



SOURCE: Diario "El Centro" (Talca, Chile)
DATE: July 21, 2003

CHUPACABRAS PRINTS TO BE STUDIED BY GEO GROUP

CURICO. The prestigious GEO Group, devoted to the study of UFO
phenomena, is studing the prints left by the alleged
"Chupacabras" which apparently attacked thirty chickens during
early morning hours last Tuesday in La Palmilla, Rauco commune.

A total of 24 birds were found exsanguinated within a henhouse
belonging to Mar=EDa Carolina Bravo. In another nearby henhouse,
five more hens expereinced a simiar attack; no explanation is
forthcoming regarding the animal [whose fangs] pierced their
neck and drew their blood.

Alfredo Nilo, a Curico-based researcher of UFO phenomena,
visited the site of the incident and made casts of the prints
which could belong to the legendary "Chupacabras". He was also
able to secure samples of hair, whose origin shall be
investigated. In this regard, and in order to perform more
detailed studies, Alfredo Nilo took the samples to Santiago,
specifically to the GEO Group, which specializes in UFO and
paranormal phenomena. There he met with Alberto Urquiza, the
group's president, who also participates in the "La Ley de la
Selva" television show, in order to deliver the casts and
perform an analysis.

"We were able to compare some of the prints of the most recent
attack of this being, which occurred in Vi=F1a del Mar, and which
have some similar characteristics with the Rauco evidence in the
type of claw. However, the prints were left with GEO for a more
thorough analysis, since they havce the necessary materials and
instruments," said Nilo.

In this meeting, Urquiza made known his intention to visit the
area in order to see the site where the "Chupacabras" attack
allegedly occurred. Even when no specific date was given, it
could take place within a few weeks. Alfredo Nilo said that for
the time being they await the analyses to be performed by GEO in
order to ascertain the type of animal or strange being that
exsanguinated the hens from Rauco. He also noted that they are
waiting for the report to be drafted by the Agriculture and
Livestock Service (SAG) based on the hens that were removed from
the site. The prints taken by Nilo from the site where the birds
died correspond to one of the animal's legs, which is
characterized by not bein "retractable" (sic) like those of a
dog. Furthermore, reddish hair was located which could
eventually shed more light on the matter.

"We were also intersted in the fact that the birds' feathers
appeared to have been chopped off as if by a knife. When a dog
tears at something, it pulls out the feathers and they come out
by the root. We are faced with the fact that a sharp object was
responsible, and the prints show that the attacker had claws as
thin and sharp as a knife," he said.

Nilo also recalled that a resident of La Palmilla is devoted to
looking for water to build wells and tanks. He used his tools in
one of the chicken coops where the creature or animal attacked
the hens and found that the tools had acquired radiation and a
strange energy.

"We believe it's an extraterrestrial pet, a programmed being, a
hybrid or cloned species designed to extract bodily fluids or
liquids from the birds in order to feed itself, or with another
purpose altogether. It is associated to the UFO phenomenon and
is very intelligent. For this reason it will not be captured,"
he added.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Translation (C) 2003 Scott Corrales Institute of Hispanic Ufology
Special thanks to Gloria Coluchi.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 22

                      Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 22:34:03 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 17:30:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Balaskas


>From: Sue Strickland <strick@intergate.net>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 00:36:48 -0700
>Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants'

>>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 21:41:34 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants'

>>>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 16:46:44 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
>>>Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants'

>><snip>

>Nick said:

>>>Fellow ufologist Grant Cameron possesses a very revealing audio
>>>cassette recording of an interview by Wilbert B. Smith's key
>>>'metals man' about the much larger quanitities of UFO hardware
>>>that is not in the public domain which has been positively
>>>determined to be ET in origin. For this reason, one is wrong to
>>>feel that many top labs would want to protect their reputation
>>>by refusing to perform analytical tests on such controversial ET
>>>artifacts when it is likely that they may have secretly been
>>>involved with other equally controversial stuff in the past,
>>>including UFO physical evidence studies.

>Steve replied:

>>I have always found Wilbert Smith's involvement in this genre to
>>be very interesting. I'm not familiar with the tape you mention,
>>but if there is evidence to back up these claims then we have
>>the "smoking gun" that we've all been looking for. If no
>>independent evidence exists, then we're left with another
>>anecdotal claim with nothing to back it up.

>Hello all,

>Bruce, I'll bet you've been wondering what would pull me out of
>the closet. This kind of claim is exactly what yanks my chain.
>Obviously, Steve's wondering the same thing. Nick, I'll bet
>there's others on the List whose ears and eyes popped out a few
>inches after reading your above-cited post.

>Nick, if you can, please provide the List with some sort of
>ability to listen to the tape, which may be a piece of the huge
>puzzle and a bit of "the smoking gun" we've been seeking for so
>long. This is not a small issue. Your claim is relevant and
>important.


Greetings Sue!

There are many people who have shared what they know about UFOs
and ETs with me and fellow ufologists in strict confidence. Some
have studied actual UFOs and their technology and others have
met the ET occupants of these UFOs, both living and dead.

Wilbert B. Smith's "metals man" who Grant Cameron has recorded
on audio tape is one of these people. Since Grant was instructed
to destroy this tape, he would have if he had not misplaced it
until he found it again recently. Although I fully support Grant
in agreeing to this (such conditions are often agreed to if a
major witness is to share his/her story at all), there is a
possibility that this retired "metals man" has since died. If
this is the case, (I hope to check into this while in Ottawa
next month) I hope I can then persuade Grant to make the
revelations in this tape known while maintaining the anonymity
of his source. Yes, Grant has an obligation to keep his promise
but I think he should not forget the obligations to thousands of
others who have the right to know about UFOs since these
directly or indirectly affect all of our lives.

Today I mailed Grant a audio cassette copy of the Nobel Peace
Prize speech made by Canadian Prime Minister Lester B. Pearson
in Olso in 1958. His speech makes mention of "Martians" and
their "Spaceships" and the context which he presents this is
identical to the speech U.S. President Ronald Reagan gave at the
United Nations many years later. Did you hear LBP's speech
played on Errol's 'Strange Days... Indeed' radio show on UFOs
(1010 AM in Toronto, 800 AM in Montreal and also around the
world via the Internet)?


Nick Balaskas







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 22

                           UFOs Are Real In Russia

From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 01:31:17 -0300
Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 17:32:52 -0400
Subject: UFOs Are Real In Russia


The Installation

An Interview with Valery Uvarov.

Extracted from Nexus Magazine, Volume 10, Number 4 (June-July 2003)
PO Box 30, Mapleton Qld 4560 Australia.
editor@nexusmagazine.com
Telephone: +61 (0)7 5442 9280;
Fax: +61 (0)7 5442 9381

From our web page at: www.nexusmagazine.com

Copyright by Graham W. Birdsall 2003
Quest Publications International Limited
Valley Farm Way, Wakefield Road
Stourton, Leeds, LS10 1SE
United Kingdom
Tel +44 (0)113 270 2066
Fax +44 (0)113 270 9672
Email gwb@ufomag.co.uk
Website http://www.ufomag.co.uk.

The following extracts were transcribed from a filmed interview
with Valery Uvarov, of Russia's National Security Academy,
conducted by Graham W. Birdsall, Editor of the UK-based UFO
Magazine. The interview took place at the 12th International UFO
Congress Convention and Film Festival, held February 2-8, 2003,
in Laughlin, Nevada, USA.

Graham Birdsall (GB): What is your official title?

Valery Uvarov (VU): I am head of the Department of UFO Research,
Science and Technical, National Security Academy, based in St
Petersburg, Russia.

GB: This, then, is an official Russian government agency?

VU: Absolutely. I am answerable to two people above me. They are
answerable to the next person above them, who is our President
[Putin].

GB: What exactly is your remit?

VU: Our research efforts are divided into two parts. Firstly, we
are constantly analysing data coming in from all over the world.
We then extract what we consider to be the most interesting
information through our database-which is yellow, which is red.
This, then, is released to various departments throughout
Russia. The other aspect of our research stemmed from asking the
question: do UFOs exist or not? For sure, we know they exist,
but what is behind their activity, their interest? This is the
most important issue for us, and what we mostly focus our
investigations on.

GB: There is active co-operation between NASA and Russian
aerospace officials at a technical, scientific and maybe even
military level. Do you liaise or have ties with organisations
similar to your own overseas?

VU: I can tell you, truthfully, that just a couple of days
before I flew to the United States I had a meeting with my ...
let's say, my bosses. And they said they are very interested in
co-operating with other organisations ... let's say, our friends
in the West. So, I can tell you that this particular mission is
at the starting point. I am charged with finding the right
people. When this is done, and the next stage is activated, we
can make some concrete steps.

GB: Earlier, off camera, you alluded to some important
developments concerning the Tunguska explosion of 1908. For the
record, can you tell us why you now believe you know the cause?

VU: It is not so much a case of belief; we know what caused it.
It was a meteor, but a meteor that was destroyed by ... let's
say, a missile. The missile was generated by a material
installation. We don't know who constructed it, but it was built
long, long ago and is situated in Siberia, several hundred
kilometres north of Tunguska. I can tell you that our
investigation has revealed more than one explosion at Tunguska.
Let me share something with you. The last time that this
installation shot down a meteor was on 24/25 September last
year. The Americans ... they have three bases ... they, too,
noticed this explosion. [Editor's Ref: See New Scientist vol 178
issue 2399 - 14 June 2003]

GB: Forgive me, but some will say this sounds like science
fiction.

VU: Graham, you know that when we talk about the truths that lie
behind this subject, we only do so with those who have an
understanding of the responsibility that goes with it. And you
know that we are dealing with a technology much further ahead of
our own-one capable of doing things that we cannot.

GB: Can you be more specific about the location of this
installation?

VU: Look for the site of the Tunguska explosion. To the
southeast is the very large and famous Lake Baikal. Beyond that,
to the north, is a huge and barren territory covering 100,000
kilometres. Hardly anyone lives there. There are no towns or
cities. Here is where we located the installation ...

GB: Are you aware of strange stories or rumours concerning the
so-called "Planet X"? If some new and heavenly body had entered
our solar system, astronomers would surely detect it and declare
its presence.

VU: I cannot speak for astronomers in the West, but astronomers
within our Academy tell us we have nothing to fear. I have heard
people talk about a rotation figure of 3,600 years for this
planet, which is in a similar orbit to that of the Earth but
behind the Sun. We know that this planet and the installation in
Siberia are closely connected. Let me say that we believe that
this installation is keeping that planet in a stable orbit. If
that planet were to move, to shift orbit, the entire solar
system would become unstable. Those of us in the Academy are
sure that this planet is inhabited, and that this installation
is designed to protect them and us. We are sure that nothing
dangerous will happen. Everything is under control.

Our investigations have shown that the Earth has a pulse-a
finely tuned frequency that affects everything, every living
thing. Some 12,500 years ago, this pulse corresponded to 360
days of the year-study the old Egyptian calendar-but then an
asteroid struck the Earth. We believe the orbit of the Earth was
altered, artificially, to compensate for this. Our planet moved
further away from the Sun, to a frequency pulse of 365.

This has taught us to believe that we have friends-friends who
watch over us, silently. They did not allow then, nor will they
allow now, any planet, comet or asteroid to strike and destroy
the Earth. This, for us, is now absolutely clear.

Those who wish to weaponise space ... to tell you the truth, all
of us involved in this project feel a pain in our hearts. Here
we all are, investigating this installation and some other
stuff, material stuff, none of which was constructed by Russians
or Americans but by someone else, someone from outer space. It
saddens us when we think what could happen if weapons are put
into space.

Let me speak frankly. This installation has a power system, an
energy source. We have located this. It was during the conflict
in the former Yugoslavia that we first noticed an increase in
the output of that energy. For us, it was incredible, but we now
know that this installation reacts to social upheaval and
conflict. Part of our investigation involved searching through
ancient records and archives, and then we came across the
Echutin Apposs Alanhor [sic] texts. We call them the Alanhor,
and they are at least 4,000 years old. They describe the
installation, in scientific terms, as to what was taking place
there. It's amazing.

I have visited the area twice. The first time our equipment
detected strong levels of radiation. I have to tell you, it was
pretty dangerous; we couldn't hide from it. The few local
inhabitants of the area knew of the installation, of course, and
they described it to us. They describe metal-like structures and
drew them for us. We plotted everything on a map. But these
people, their families, the animals, they were suffering from
radiation sickness.

The radiation levels have been continuously monitored for the
past six years, and now everyone-including the animals-has left
the forest. Let me tell you something about the Tunguska
explosion-something that has never been spoken of before. Two
months before the explosion, every living animal fled the
region. It was as if the installation had powered up to deal
with the asteroid. With that came an increase in radiation. The
same thing is happening now, today.

GB: Are there any plans to mount another expedition to the area
and to visit the installation?

VU: The radiation is a factor but, yes, another expedition is
planned for later this year. Look, we want to be open and honest
about this. We welcome international participation, but the
people we invite must be responsible in the eyes of the world.
We want people who are honest, open-minded and transparent, who
are eager and willing to co-operate and exchange and then
disseminate the scientific data. I invite you, Graham, to come
to Russia and visit the installation as an observer.

GB: I would be honoured. Thank you.

VU: You can tell people that we, Russia, have decided that it is
time that other people should know about this, and not just a
few.


Editor's Note:

This interview first appeared in the April 2003 edition of UFO
Magazine, published by Quest Publications International Limited,
Valley Farm Way, Wakefield Road, Stourton, Leeds, LS10 1SE,
England, United Kingdom, tel +44 (0)113 270 2066, fax +44 (0)113
270 9672, email gwb@ufomag.co.uk, website
http://www.ufomag.co.uk.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 22

                       Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 06:02:33 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 17:38:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Kaeser


>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 22:34:03 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
>Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants'

>There are many people who have shared what they know about UFOs
>and ETs with me and fellow ufologists in strict confidence. Some
>have studied actual UFOs and their technology and others have
>met the ET occupants of these UFOs, both living and dead.

>Wilbert B. Smith's "metals man" who Grant Cameron has recorded
>on audio tape is one of these people. Since Grant was instructed
>to destroy this tape, he would have if he had not misplaced it
>until he found it again recently. Although I fully support Grant
>in agreeing to this (such conditions are often agreed to if a
>major witness is to share his/her story at all), there is a
>possibility that this retired "metals man" has since died. If
>this is the case, (I hope to check into this while in Ottawa next
>month) I hope I can then persuade Grant to make the revelations
>in this tape known while maintaining the anonymity of his source.
>Yes, Grant has an obligation to keep his promise but I think he
>should not forget the obligations to thousands of others who have
>the right to know about UFOs since these directly or indirectly
>affect all of our lives.

>Maybe we will have something further to say next month on Errol's
>UFO UpDates.

>Today I mailed Grant a audio cassette copy of the Nobel Peace
>Prize speech made by Canadian Prime Minister Lester B. Pearson in
>Olso in 1958. His speech makes mention of "Martians" and their
>"Spaceships" and the context which he presents this is identical
>to the speech U.S. President Ronald Reagan gave at the United
>Nations many years later. Did you hear LBP's speech played on
>Errol's 'Strange Days... Indeed' radio show on UFOs (1010 AM in
>Toronto, 800 AM in Montreal and also around the world via the
>Internet)?



Hi Nick-

Relating a tale that you can't back up with evidence is little
more than a simple story. We're talking about a paradigm shift
in beliefs, and that requires more than a tale told by someone
who doesn't want to be identified. Yes, I also work with many
who don't want their names used, but that doesn't prevent the
groundwork that goes along with it to verify their tales.

I'll have to admit that I don't listen to radio programs due to
time constraints (even though I worked in radio news for a
decade), so I hope that someone will post any highlights from
Errol's show on UpDates.


Steve







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 22

                       Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Cameron

From: Grant Cameron <presidentialufo@presidency.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 05:33:54 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 17:47:36 -0400
Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants' - Cameron


>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 22:34:03 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
>Subject: Re: Leir & 'Implants'

>There are many people who have shared what they know about UFOs
>and ETs with me and fellow ufologists in strict confidence. Some
>have studied actual UFOs and their technology and others have
>met the ET occupants of these UFOs, both living and dead.

>Wilbert B. Smith's "metals man" who Grant Cameron has recorded
>on audio tape is one of these people. Since Grant was instructed
>to destroy this tape, he would have if he had not misplaced it
>until he found it again recently. Although I fully support Grant
>in agreeing to this (such conditions are often agreed to if a
>major witness is to share his/her story at all), there is a
>possibility that this retired "metals man" has since died. If
>this is the case, (I hope to check into this while in Ottawa next
>month) I hope I can then persuade Grant to make the revelations
>in this tape known while maintaining the anonymity of his source.
>Yes, Grant has an obligation to keep his promise but I think he
>should not forget the obligations to thousands of others who have
>the right to know about UFOs since these directly or indirectly
>affect all of our lives.

The two-hour tape from the "metals man" is on my Smith CD.

Anyone who knows the names of the inner circle members will know
who he is. As I think he is still alive I do not wish to have
people bother him as I was supposed to have destroyed the tape
20 years ago. Twice on the tape he clearly says the information
is not for public consumption.

After finding it in the garage, I realized that it was very
important history related to what happened in Canada in the
1950s, and that it had to survive.

I have made it a policy to withhold nothing in my research. In
this case the entire tape is now public and the name is of no
use to anyone except someone who wishes to reinterview this man.
The man says clearly on the tape that involvement in UFOs ruined
his career. The only reason he talked to me is that Mrs. Smith
asked him to back in the 1970s. When I talked to him not even
his wife and kids were alloed in the room. He was a man who had
become paranoid over his years as a military scientist. I will
leave him his peace in his last years.

Grant


In late December 2001, chief presidential speechwriter Mike
Gerson "was parcelling out the components of the forthcoming
State of the Union speech. His request to me," recalls David
Frum in his new book The White House in The Right Time: The
Surprise Presidency of George W. Bush, "could not have been
simpler: I was to provide a justification for a war." And so was
born the phrase "the axis of evil."







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 22

                       UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 27

From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 16:57:23 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 18:19:07 -0400
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 27


Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor.

<Masinaigan@aol.com>
==========================

      UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 8, Number 27
July 23, 2003
Editor: Joseph Trainor

E-mail: <Masinaigan@aol.com>
Website: http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/


CHUPACABRAS GO ON A
RAMPAGE IN CHILE

      "A couple from Vina del Mar," just north of
Valparaiso, Chile, "went through a horrifying experience
after becoming aware that a strange animal, allegedly the
Chupacabra, had entered into their backyard where it
attacked the family's ducks."
      "One of the ducks suffered a perfect perforation in
its spine.  The remaining three disappeared."
      "Most stunning for the protagonists of the event was
that they managed to see the animal face-to-face and even
strike it repeatedly with a metal cart.  But the intruder
managed to escape.  Its escape path was not ascertained."
      "This strange event was recorded early Wednesday
morning," July 9, 2003. "The witnesses were Juan Silva and
Veronica Vildasola, residents of the Calle Las Maravillas
(street) in the town of Santa Julia.  Both were hesitant
about disclosing their experience, since they feared they
would not be believed."
      "Veronica Vildasola states that on the day in
question, around 5 a.m., she heard strange noises.  'First
I heard blows (thumps) on neighboring rooftops.  It was
like something jumping from one rooftop to another.'"
      "She added, 'I suddenly heard something like a very
heavy bird that landed on our roof.  It immediately
started to scratch the rooftop with its claws.'"
      "Faced with the fear that the animal or bird would
attack the ducks kept in the backyard or the hens in their
coops, she woke up her husband (Silva) so he could go out
and take a look."
      "Juan Silva says, 'Upon going outside, I saw an
animal that wasn't a dog in spite of looking like a dog.
It was in a corner, hunched over the spine of one of the
ducks it had caught.'"
      "'I got closer, hurling the wrench I held in my hand.
But since it didn't move, I began to strike it with the
handle of a metal hand-cart that was in the yard.  The
animal made some strange sounds, like moans of pain.  Had
it been a dog, it would have barked and yelped.  But that
wasn't the case.'"
      "Silva added that the creature 'had very shiny
eyes.'"
      "His wife continued the story: 'I was holding a stick
with which to strike what I thought was a dog.  That's
when I saw the creature trying to escape.  It did so in a
semi-erect position, as though walking hunched over on two
legs.  It looked at me, and I also saw its shiny eyes.  I
don't know if I was paralyzed with fear or for another
reason.'"
      "The couple indicated that the neighbors' dogs began
to bark like never before."
      "The mysterious creature's escape was also a subject
of high strangeness for the protagonists of the event.
'Later on, we tried to see clearly which way the animal
could have escaped, but we couldn't find any point through
which it could have crossed.  We think it could have only
flown away,' said the woman."
      "They noted that the animal only left some claw marks
in the dirt.  'These don't match dogs' paws, either,'
stated Juan Silva."
      "Valparaiso, Vina del Mar and Quillota have been the
scenes of similar episodes in recent years.  No logical
explanation has hitherto been found for any of them.  For
this reason, those affected by poultry deaths have
ascribed the attack to the alleged Chupacabras."
      "Furthermore, the case recorded in Santa Julia
coincides in several aspects with the two latest cases
known in Quillota.  One of these is that the creature
appears during the early-morning hours, jumping from
rooftop to rooftop.  The other is that, when faced by
humans, these people notice a strange eye glow that leaves
them paralyzed."
      Elsewhere in Chile, "sedate residents of the La
Palmilla sector of the peaceful commune of Rauco in the
Sixth Region were startled to find 29 hens with their legs
in the air, completely exsanguinated (drained of blood--
J.T.), and with twin bites on their necks.  The peasantry
were shocked at the find and, without thinking, assigned
blame to the now-legendary Chupacabra, which had attacked
again."
      "They had no doubts in their views, because, aside
from the birds, the hens--which were all egg-layers--were
completely dry, as though some unknown beast had sucked
their last drop of blood."
      "Still trembling from their fear of the Chupacabras,
and concerned by the loss of their birds, the residents
noted that the deaths had occurred simultaneously in two
neighboring homes on Tuesday morning," July 15, 2003.
      "What is strange about the matter and causes belief
in a supernatural animal prone to vampirism is that no
resident heard noises, which is very strange given the
fact that hens tend to be very vocal if attacked.  Even
the guard dogs in both houses never realized what was
going on, and never made a fuss."
      "The first attack affected the house of Maria
Carolina Bravo, who lost 24 hens."
      "According to this woman, upon inspecting the
henhouse, she found the hole through which some animal of
the Chupacabras could have gotten through.  The woman did
not hear any sounds, either."
      "Martha Varas was speechless when she found five dead
hens, slain in the same mysterious fashion, in her
backyard."
      "Carabineros (Chilean national police--J.T.) of the
Rauco cuartel (barracks) appeared immediately and
witnessed" the crime scene and its "inexplicable hen
slaying for themselves."  (See the Chilean newspapers La
Estrella de Valparaiso for July 12, 2003, "Chupacabra gets
a beating," and La Cuarta of Temuco for July 17, 2003,
"Terror spreads among farmers of La Palmilla."  Muchas
gracias a Scott Corrales y Gloria Coluchi para esos
articulos de diario.)


MYSTERY FIREBALL SIGHTED
IN NORTHERN MINNESOTA

      "The St. Louis County (Minnesota) Sheriff's
Department says a large fiery object--seen by residents of
Aurora, Babbitt and Ely at 5:24 p.m. Thursday," July 17,
2003--was most likely a meteor."
      "The Sheriff's Department took several calls late
Thursday afternoon from eyewitnesses who reported seeing
the object and hearing loud noise."
      "After checking with Duluth International Airport and
determining that no planes were missing, the Sheriff's
Department concluded that it was a meteor entering the
atmosphere, and the noise was a sonic boom."
      Aurora (population 1,850), Babbitt (population 1,670)
and Ely (population 3,724) are located in the Vermilion
Iron Range about 210 miles (336 kilometers) north of
Minneapolis.  (See the Duluth, Minn. News-Tribune for July
18, 2003, "Object said to be meteor," page 2B.)


DAYLIGHT DISC SPOTTED IN
STURBRIDGE, MASS.

      On Sunday, July 13, 2003, at 7:15 p.m., Bob Zalewski
reported, "My wife Vicky and myself spotted a silver craft
for maybe two to three seconds.  It was a teardrop shape.
When we tried to see it again, it was gone."
      "It was sunny and no clouds in sight.  We were
heading east on (Interstate Highway) I-84 in Sturbridge,
Massachusetts, about four miles (7 kilometers) north of"
Mashapaug Pond in Union, Connecticut.
      "There was no place in the sky where it could hide.
There was only open space.  At arm's length, it appeared
to be the size of a quarter-carat diamond.  I'd say it was
about 28,000 feet (8,400 meters) up.  We swear that it was
no plane."
      Sturbridge, Mass. (population 2,047) is on Routes 20
and 131, located about 60 miles (100 kilometers) southwest
of Boston.  (Email Form Report)


NIGHT SAUCER SIGHTED IN
BOULDER, COLORADO

      On Saturday, July 5, 2003, at 12:10 a.m., five
witnesses saw a UFO "come over the northwestern horizon
over mountains" in Boulder, Colorado (population 94,673).
It headed northeast after dancing in the sky for a few
hours" until 5:20 a.m.  "There were five of us who saw it,
and we were facing northwest."
      "It was a disc-shaped object with many different
colored lights.  Moved like nothing I've ever seen," the
witness reported.
      At first, "we noticed a bright light up behind the
tree line.  The light changed to many different colors but
flashed a brilliant red the most.  It rose to the top of
the tree and hovered and flashed for about ten minutes or
so."
      "Then it started making erratic movements up, down,
left and right very fast."
      "There was a second object that rose from the same
area but was closer and more to the south of the other
object.  It rose and flew to the right of the other
object, flashed a bright white light and then vanished."
      "The other object disappeared for about ten seconds,
then reappeared over the top of us at a very high
altitude.  It danced from right to left in very fast
movements.  It then disappeared again and then reappeared
back over the tree line.  It flashed a very bright
greenish-blue light at the ground.  It did this in various
spots over the tree line.  It then started to rise back
into the sky and disappeared."
      Boulder, Colo. is on Highways 36 and 19, located
approximately 26 miles (42 kilometers) northwest of
Denver.  (Email Form Report)


SILVER SPHERE UFO SEEN IN
LINCOLNSHIRE, UK

      On Friday, July 18, 2003, at 4 p.m., Kevin M.
reported, "My father saw a bright silver round object,
travelling from the northeast to the southwest" over
Gainsborough, Lincolnshire, UK.  "The object was very high
in a clear blue sky, small amount of cloud, no engine
noise.  Real bright silver, very high, no contrails, a lot
faster than a military fighter, almost instant speed."
(Email Form Report)


JAPANESE MOUNTAINEER
TO HUNT FOR YETI

      "A 60-year-old Japanese mountaineer will form a
seven-member party to leave for a two-month Himalayan
mission" in August 2003 "in a quest for the legendary
Yeti, according to his family."
      "Yoshiteru Takahashi, 60, will leave Japan for Nepal
on August 10 (2003) with five other men.  A seventh is to
join the party in the (Nepalese) capital Kathmandu,
Takahashi's wife, Masako, said."
      "'He has been convinced of the Yeti's existence for
three decades and believes searching for it is the last
romantic mission left in the Himalayas,' she said."
      "Few have even claimed to have seen the Yeti, but
tracks in the snow, rare photos--often fuzzy--excretions,
hairs and disputed testimonies are some of the elements
that continue to fuel the debate on the Abominable
Snowman."
(Editor's Note:  Some researchers think the word Yeti is a
corruption of the Sherpa phrase meteh kangmi, which means
snow creature.)
      "Half man, half monkey, it is said to live high up in
the thick forests of Nepal and Tibet, where it is known
locally by the name of Migou."
      "Takahashi's party, ranging in age from 31 to 60, is
to stay on the Dhaulagiri (Translated: White Mountain)
massif, whose main peak is 8,167 metres (26,950 feet)
high."
      "They hope to track the Yeti down by setting up at
least four infra-red cameras."
      "Takahashi climbed the Dhaulagiri peaks twice in the
1970s and once in 1982.  He returned there in 1994 for the
sole purpose of finding the Yeti--in vain."
      "He failed to find the Yeti although he smelled a
strong animal scent and found barefoot footprints that
resembled a small human child and measured between 10 and
20 centimetres (4 and 8 inches), his 56-year-old wife
said."
      "'I know I cannot stop him as we have been married
for 27 years, and I want people to understand that he is
serious about this mission,' she said."
      "The party is being provided with logistic support
from" the Japanese newspaper Asahi Shimbun.  (See the
Australian Broadcasting Corp. news report of July 15,
2003.  Many thanks to Loren Coleman for this transcript.)


GORDON CREIGHTON DIES
IN ENGLAND AT AGE 95

      On Wednesday morning, July 16, 2003, author,
ufologist and magazine editor Gordon Creighton died at the
age of 95.
      "Up until his death, the former British diplomat was
the editor of Flying Saucer Review," one of the world's
best known UFO magazines.
      "Graham W. Birdsall, editor of the UK's UFO Magazine,
said, 'Gordon Creighton was arguably one of Ufology's
greatest-ever proponents.  For the best part of 50 years,
he sought out information on the phenomenon from around
the world, and his lasting legacy will be that which he
came to publish in Flying Saucer Review.  He was a
remarkable man in every respect, and the world of Ufology
will mourn his passing.'" (Many thanks to Loren Coleman
and Graham W. Birdsall for this report.)

      That's it for this week.  Join us next time for more
UFO, Fortean and paranormal news from around the planet
Earth, brought to you by "the paper that goes home--UFO
Roundup."  See you next week.

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2003 by Masinaigan Productions, all
rights reserved.  Readers may post news items from UFO
Roundup on their Web sites or in news groups provided that
they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list
the date of the issue in which the item first appeared.

E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com>
or use the Sighting Report Form at:

http://www.ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Website comments: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>

UFOINFO: http://www.ufoinfo.com

Official Archives of UFO Roundup, AUFORN Australian
UFO Reports and Experiences, UFO + PSI Magazine, plus
archives of Filer's Files, Oz Files, UFO News UK and
UFO Sightings Italia.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-







                         The UFO UpDates Archive
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 23

                     UFOs Demon-Piloted Craft From Hell?

From: Loren Coleman <lcolema1@maine.rr.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 22:04:12 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 18:26:41 -0400
Subject: UFOs Demon-Piloted Craft From Hell?

Source: WISC-TV3 Madison, Wisconsin

http://www.channel3000.com/news/2350819/detail.html


UFOs: Demon-Piloted Crafts From Hell?
Baraboo Woman's New Sci-Fi Novel Connects UFOs to the Spiritual

POSTED: 5:36 p.m. EDT July 22, 2003
UPDATED: 5:42 p.m. EDT July 22, 2003

BARABOO, Wis. -- Could UFOs be demon-piloted crafts from hell?
Beverly Fox's Earth: The Forbidden Planet is a sci-fi novel that
depicts extraterrestrials as demons plotting world chaos.

In Earth: The Forbidden Planet, demons plan to use UFOs and a
devastating weapon to vanish a massive portion of the earth's
population, making it appear like a biblical rapture.

The event would trigger world hysteria and shatter the Christian
faith. The story's heroes are a group of college friends who
stumble onto a time tunnel near Roswell, N.M., which takes them
through a history of fallen angels and ancient civilizations.
With evil hounding them, the students take on the dangerous
quest of stopping the demons and saving mankind.

Beverly Fox was born in San Diego in 1938 and earned an
associate degree in theology at Victory Bible School in
Albuquerque in 1993.





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 23

                  Socorro's UFO Incident Still Unexplained

From: Loren Coleman <lcolema1@maine.rr.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 07:18:16 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 18:29:18 -0400
Subject: Socorro's UFO Incident Still Unexplained


Source: http://www.dchieftain.com/news/news3_07232003.html

El Defensor Chieftain - Socorro, NM

July 23, 2003

Socorro's UFO incident still unexplained

By Valerie Kimble

For El Defensor Chieftain

Little did Socorro patrolman Lonnie Zamora know that a single
incident recorded almost 40 years ago would change his life, and
the city's, forever.

Around 5:45 p.m. on April 24, 1964, Zamora was in his patrol
vehicle in hot pursuit of a speeder when he heard something that
sounded like an explosion.

The five-year veteran patrolman stopped chasing the fleeing
vehicle to investigate what he thought might have been the
detonation of a shack of dynamite.

Zamora followed a narrow, gravel road beside a small arroyo, and
radioed in that he was going to check on what looked like it
might have been an overturned vehicle.

He drove further on the gravel road and then exited his patrol
vehicle to get a better look.

What Zamora described next has been chronicled and analyzed by
UFO experts around the world. Most reports refer to an egg-
shaped object supported by legs, and the presence of two beings
described as children or small adults.

A loud roar and the flash of a bluish flame sent Zamora to the
ground for cover before he jumped up and ran to the other side
of the gravel road.

Zamora heard a whirring sound and watched the object rise out of
the arroyo; the "legs" he had seen earlier were no longer in
view.

Not long after the object's disappearance, he was joined by
State Police Sgt. Sam Chavez who had overheard Zamora's radio
dispatch. The two officers began to scour the area for clues.

And thus began an investigation into one of the most widely
circulated UFO stories ever, one that propelled tiny Socorro
into the center of the unidentified flying object universe.

Dave Treseder, a teen-age disk jockey at local station KSRC-AM,
found himself answering telephone queries from people with
prestigious-sounding titles.

The city itself was inundated with visitors from the military to
the merely curious.

Zamora, meanwhile, was at the center of the maelstrom. It would
be difficult to find a UFO aficionado who has not heard of him,
or tried to get in touch with him, to hear from the eyewitness
himself just what he saw in the desert south of Socorro on that
April afternoon.

Lonnie Zamora, now long retired from the city, declined an
interview with El Defensor Chieftain regarding this article. "I
just don't talk about it any more," he said.

That was not the case initially. An article in the Feb. 9, 1965,
issue of El Defensor Chieftain reported that "the Socorro part"
of a documentary on Unidentified Flying Objects had been
completed" with Zamora as one of the principals.

The Chieftain quoted the executive producer of the project as
saying that "Zamora's unchanged and straightforward account was
similar to 16 other verified UFO sightings in various parts of
the world."

The newspaper reported that several other residents had been
interviewed for the documentary including Mayor Holm O. Bursum
Jr., State Police Sgt. Chavez, City Clerk Raymond L. Senn, Steve
Torres Jr., Mrs. Howard Terry and Mrs. Vince Cardinalli. Walter
Shrode, then owner of KSRC radio, conducted the interviews.

In its June 29, 1965, issue, the Chieftain ran an article and
editorial announcing the publication of "Anatomy of a
Phenomenon: Unidentified Objects in Space -- A Scientific
Appraisal" by Jacques Valle.

The article included the following quote: "On April 24, 1964, Officer L.
Zamora saw a bright object which landed on four legs two miles
out of Socorro, New Mexico. It has been argued, and even
'categorically stated' that the Socorro object was not
interplanetary, but very probably one of the experimental
devises recently developed by the U.S. for the exploration of
the moon and planets."

However, Valle went on to say that "a good report is 100 percent
unexplained."

The fascination with the unexplained, and the inexplicable,
continues, as evidenced by the number of web sites detailing the
Socorro UFO landing of 1964; one, by Chris Lambright, that bears
the words, "Socorro the Zamora Sighting" and a black-and-white
image of Zamora in a police officer's uniform.

"Of all the evidence that could be presented to support the
contention that what Lonnie Zamora saw was something totally
unexplained, perhaps nothing is more compelling than (an article
written by Hector Quintanilla Jr., former head of the Air
Force's Project Bluebook)."

Lambright quoted from Quintanilla's article, written for a
formerly classified CIA publication called "Studies in
Intelligence" from the fall of 1966:

"There is no doubt that Lonnie Zamora saw an object which left
quite an impression on him. There is also no question about
Zamora's reliability. He is a serious police officer, a pillar
of his church, and a man well versed in recognizing airborne
vehicles in his area.

"He is puzzled by what he saw, and frankly, so are we. This is
the best-documented case on record, and still we have been
unable, in spite of thorough investigation, to find the vehicle
or other stimulus that scared Zamora to the point of panic."

Not all saucers have caused such controversy. Witness this news
account in the Nov. 16, 1980, issue of the Chieftain:

"The U.S. Air Force has a Flying Saucer operating from this
base, the public relations office recently revealed. Johnson
Base personnel are quite proud of their Flying Saucer. He is
T/Sgt. Abner Saucer Jr. of the 13th Bomb Squadron."

++++++++

For more on the Zamora Incident, see:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1931044279/mothmanbooks-20

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1578590299/mothmanbooks-20







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 23

              Flaming Ball Spotted In Northern Greece A Meteor?

From: Eustquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:14:14 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 18:37:01 -0400
Subject: Flaming Ball Spotted In Northern Greece A Meteor?


Source: http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/news/politics_2368255KathiLev&xml/&asp
Kath/politics.asp?fdate=22/07/2003

'Kathimerini' English Edition - Greece

Second Flaming Ball Spotted In Northern Greece 'Likely A Meteor'

A large flaming ball seen flying through the sky by residents in
Halkidiki, Drama and Serres on Sunday night was probably a
meteorite, experts said yesterday.

Many witnesses, who reported the sighting to local police, said
they saw the object fall into the sea.

Earlier this month a similar "fireball" had been reported by
residents of Elefsina, Kavala, Corfu and Ioannina.

There were claims it had fallen to earth in the northwestern
region of Zagori, near Ioannina, but fire service workers failed
to find any evidence of a fire or debris.









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 23

               'Other commitments' Kept Aliens From UFO Daze?

From: Eustquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:16:37 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 18:40:37 -0400
Subject: 'Other commitments' Kept Aliens From UFO Daze?


Source: The Sheboygan Press - Wisconsin

http://www.wisinfo.com/sheboyganpress/news/archive/local_11353418.shtml

July 21, 2003

By Nhia C. Yang
Sheboygan Press staff

DUNDEE _ They didn't come.

The hundreds who anxiously awaited the mysterious lights that
periodically appear near Dundee were left only with
disappointment Saturday night during the 14th annual "UFO Daze"
at Benson's HideAway.

UFO Daze, an all-day event filled with speakers, testimonials
and sky-watching that host Bill Benson calls "a place where like
minds can go without getting laughed and scoffed at," attracts
hundreds of people annually during the third Saturday in July.

During last year's event, mysterious lights appeared in the sky.

Those in attendance this year included people who claim to have
had experiences with alien beings or aircrafts, as well as
curious spectators.

Bob Kuehn of Fond du Lac, founder of UFO Daze and one of those
who claims personal experiences with aliens, had an explanation
for the absence of mysterious lights this year.

"I was given the impression that they were going to be coming
later tonight," Kuehn, 72, said at 10:30 p.m. Kuehn said he has
communicated telepathically with aliens since he was taken
aboard an aircraft when he was 3 years old. "They said they had
other commitments first."

Benson admitted he was a little disappointed at the lack of
lights, but was also quick to note that the lights are
occasionally spotted in the area outside of UFO Daze.

"If they wanted to show up, they would," he said.

Earlier in the evening, while still hopeful the lights would
appear, spectators willingly shared their views about other life
forms.

Freedom Baumann of Greendale, who has attended every UFO Daze,
said he believes humans were created by aliens and that humans
"are in the dark ages compared to them." Humans were put here to
learn about love and spirituality, Baumann said.

Andrew Kovaleski of Milwaukee held a similar view. Kovaleski,
who had videotaped last year's lights, came back equipped to
videotape them again after having more questions than answers
after last year's event.

"I'm not quite sure what to make of (the lights)," Kovaleski
said.

But even had the lights made an appearance, it would have taken
more to convince Dave and Karen Sparks of West Bend, two of the
more skeptical in attendance.

"I'm not saying there's not anything out there," Dave Sparks
said. "You just have to be careful, because this is a topic that
opens itself up for hoaxes."

But Kuehn firmly maintains that these are no hoaxes.

"I know what I've seen," said Kuehn, who also said he is a
pilot. "They are real. It's important that people know about
this."










   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 23

                          Filer's Files #30 -- 2003

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 15:12:41 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 18:53:44 -0400
Subject: Filer's Files #30 -- 2003



Filer's Files #30 -- 2003 Skywatch Investigations.
George A. Filer,  Director Mutual UFO Network Eastern
July 23, 2003,  Majorstar@aol.com  Webmaster: Chuck
Warren -- My website is at: www.GeorgeFiler.com/
Sponsored by: OPC-3

SIGHTINGS CONTINUE WITH DISC OVER NEW YORK

The purpose of these files is to report the UFO eyewitness and
photo/video evidence that occurs on a daily basis around the
world and in space. Tony Blair -survival of world, Mars -
Evidence for life was found in 1976, Connecticut - flashing
light with incredible speed and maneuverability, New York - four
witnesses see disc with thirty windows, New Jersey - numerous
unknown objects moving at fast rates circling, Pennsylvania -
UFO surrounded by silver spheres moving south, North Carolina -
daylight disc and fighter dogfight, Ohio - brilliant light
illuminates everything, Michigan - flying triangle above
campers, Wisconsin - daylight cylinder spotted, California -
flying triangle lands near highway, Canada - British soldier has
sighting, England - chevron makes right angle turns, Greece -
giant meteor or UFO falls into the sea, Zimbabwe - a flying
diamond circled the area, Secret papers tell how RAF hunted
aliens. Hopi Indian Chief claims flying saucers and space travel
exist.

WAR CONTINUES -- SURVIVAL OF US AND WORLD AT STAKE

British Prime Minister Tony Blair spoke to the US Congress on
Thursday, after receiving a Congressional Gold Medal saying he
had come with an "urgent sense of mission," America, Britain,
the free world face destruction. "September 11th was not an
isolated event, but a tragic prologue, Iraq another act, and
many further struggles will be set upon this stage before its
over." "There has never been a time when the power of America
was so necessary or so misunderstood. The survival of the United
States and our way of life is at stake. Blair said, "The risk is
that terrorism and states developing weapons of mass destruction
come together. And when people say that is fanciful, I say I
know the Taliban supported al-Qaida. We know that Saddam gave
haven to and supported terrorists. We know there are states in
the Middle East now actively funding and helping people who
regard it as God's will in the act of suicide to take as many
innocent lives with them on the way to God's judgment."

Blair said, "We're not fighting for domination. We're not
fighting for an American world, though we want a world in which
America is at ease. We're not fighting for Christianity, but
against religious fanaticism of all kinds. And this is not a war
of civilizations, because each civilization has a unique
capacity to enrich the stock of human heritage. We are fighting
for the inalienable right of humankind--black or white,
Christian or not, left, right or a million different--to be
free, free to raise a family in love and hope, free to earn a
living and be rewarded by your efforts, free not to bend your
knee to any man in fear, free to be you so long as being you
does not impair the freedom of others. That's what we're
fighting for. And it's a battle worth fighting. You are not
going to be alone. We will be with you in this fight for
liberty. We will be with you in this fight for liberty. And if
our spirit is right and our courage firm, the world will be with
us. Thanks to Tony Blair See transcript at:

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/07/17/blair.transcript/

MARS - EVIDENCE FOR LIFE WAS FOUND IN 1976

The Australian reports, "NASA found evidence of life on Mars in
1976, but dismissed the findings as impossible, two British
astronomers claim." Now, evidence from missions such as the Mars
Global Surveyor suggests that the early observation was correct
after all. For instance, newly released high-resolution images
of the planet's surface show a valley, which might have been
originally formed by liquid water, the stuff of life. According
to Nigel Henbest and Heather Couper, independent astronomy
writers one of three biology experiments conducted on Mars by
the two Viking Landers obtained clear evidence that there were
living microbes on the red planet.

The experimental instrument, designed by engineer Gilbert Levin,
head of the Biospherics company in the US, exposed samples of
the Martian soil to an Earth-like solution of water and
nutrients known to exist in meteorites and interstellar clouds.
"It was the kind of solution that bacteria on Earth would love
to slurp," Mr. Henbest, in Sydney for the International
Astronomical Union's 24th general assembly, said. "It was
cleverly designed so that if there was no life, then nothing
would happen, but if there were microbes, they would take in the
solution and produce gas." He said the gas was tagged with a
radioactive label that could be detected by the experiment's
built-in Geiger detector. Also speaking, astronomer Seth Shostak
predicted that scientists would find ET within 25 years. Dr
Shostak, with the Search for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence
Institute (SETI), claimed that a $15 billion array of 350
specially designed radio telescopes under construction in
California will crank up the search for ET radio signals. "It's
like going from walking to jet speed. In their new book Mars:
the inside story of the red planet Mr. Henbest and Dr Couper
reveal that Dr Levin's instrument tested three soil samples at
differing temperatures. When tested at 46C, the sample emitted
gas, indicating the presence of bacteria-like organisms.
"Independent people say that if this were the only experiment on
Viking the (scientists) would have been persuaded that there is
evidence for life on Mars," Mr. Henbest said. The problem was
that neither of the other two experiments found telltale signs
of life. NASA dismissed Dr Levin's findings. By Leigh Dayton and
Steven Swinford write in The Australian 7/15/03
http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,6753999%255E1376
2,00.html

Editor's Note: Mars is becoming larger in the night sky as we
speed towards it at 25,000 mph. Its the deep orange bright star
in the sky near the Moon. Get out your telescope and look for
the green vegetation on Mars yourself.

CONNECTICUT FLASHING LIGHT WITH INCREDIBLE SPEED

NIANTIC - On July 6, 2003, two fishermen were anchored in their
boat four miles offshore, and about 500 yards from Bartlets
Light, at about 1:00 AM. They were planning on fishing all night
so it didn't matter that there was a heavy fog. One fisherman
laid down to take a nap, and the other was still fishing. The
witness states, "I happened to look up towards the sky and saw a
green flashing light." My first thought was the fog was just
thick at low-level and I could see up some, and I could see an
airplane so I began to look for stars or clouds, but could see
nothing else but this green flashing light. After about ten
seconds this flashing light began to zigzag back and forth. I've
never seen anything move like that or so fast and I called my
partner who got up immediately. He saw it head straight down
towards the water, again, very fast. I thought it was going into
the water, but it stopped at water level and the light was
stationary as to be in a hover. After a few seconds it began to
move slowly by us, still at water level. Then it flew straight
up, in only 3 blinks of the light, then it was gone. He said,
"What the hell was that?" I have no explanation as the way and
the speed at which it darted, it had to be within 100 yards of
us, and neither of us heard a sound. I am now a believer. Thanks
to Peter Davenport, NUFORC

NEW YORK - FOUR WITNESSES SEE DISC WITH THIRTY WINDOWS.

JFK AIRPORT - At 11:30 PM, four witnesses were going into the
Howard Beach Subway Station on June 28, 2003, when they saw a
saucer flying overhead. There was a saucer shaped object with
the usual half sphere middle part with three rows of 8 to 10
windows. It was emitting a gloomy white light/haze all over it
and a blinking sharp white light from the bottom. It was
hovering low in the horizon near the airport. It stayed in one
position about 300 meters high then moved slowly to the right
while lowering itself. Then it came back to its original
position, but much closer to the ground and got out of sight,
because it was lower than a building. It might have landed.
Other people also saw it, but did not pay attention. It was not
an airplane. Several airplanes flew by paying no attention to
the UFO. I followed its movements and saw it from time to time
covered by the trees. We all knew we had never seen anything
like that before and somehow I had a very nice relaxing feeling
over the excitement of the unusual sight. Thanks to Peter
Davenport NUFORC

MANLIUS -- On July 3, 2003, at 8:40 PM, a soundless, vapor less
silver cylinder object flew east to west over the suburbs of
Syracuse. The witness states, "I was facing south and spotted an
unusual flying object that looked like a silver cigar tube." I
was trying to find the wings or a tail section and neither was
visible, if they existed. The object was in site for about ten
seconds and it did not make a sound and made no vapor trail. It
was traveling west about 15 degrees off its right side. Thanks
to Peter Davenport NUFORC

STATEN ISLAND - Seven people swimming saw a strange object in
the sky. The witness states, I was in the pool with my dad and
my uncle when I saw a dot far away in the sky on July 13, 2003,
at 7:30 PM. As we got out of the pool we saw four dots that
stayed in the same position. By that time all seven of us began
to look and saw seven dots. We also saw two dots revolving
around each other and flashing brightly. At that time, as we
were looking at the dots, two commercial airliner almost
collided! It was very bizarre and all seven of us agreed that
this sighting was something from a different planet. What made
it even more bizarre was the amount of military aircraft that
followed. I've never seen so many jets in my life! There was
something in the air tonight and I really do believe that it was
a UFO. We all do. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC

NEW JERSEY - NUMEROUS UNKNOWN OBJECTS CIRCLING

ATLANTIC CITY -- I was on a tour bus on June 30, 2003, at 9 PM,
heading out of Atlantic City to New York, when I looked up at
the sky and saw numerous unknown objects circling the sky. They
were emitting some form of light and circling each other. There
were about 20 to 30 of these unknown objects and they were
spread out. Some just stood there emitting light but others were
moving at fast rates. We suspect that the lights might have been
projected from an advertising device. PD)) . Thanks to Peter
Davenport NUFORC

CHERRY HILL -- This was the witnesses first sighting and it took
place about 3:47 AM, on July 17, 2003, over Route 70 above 3
Executive Campus. He states, " I work the night shift and had
just finished eating and was admiring the stars on a fairly
clear night and thinking of how massive and amazing the universe
really is." Immediately after thinking that, I had a sudden
instinct to look directly at a northeast area of the sky and
noticed what looked like a dim bluish star, moving across the
sky at a slow speed. There were no flashing lights and this
object had a steady blue glow, was very high up, silent. It was
quite small in size, so I estimated it to be between 11-30 feet,
possibly larger and many miles into the atmosphere. It looked
like a star. It moved across the sky about a hundred feet at a
slow steady speed. I thought to myself is this really a UFO I'm
seeing? At that very moment the object stopped, then instantly
pulsated expanded into a spherical ball of pure brilliant white
light roughly 20 times the size it was before. It held that form
for about one second and then returned to its previous color and
shape, a small bluish star. It continued to travel along at the
same rate as before for about three seconds more, then
accelerated to incredible speed and vanished into space. Thanks
to Bruce Cornet, bcornet@monmouth.com and NEW-WUFOD-I. 2-707-NJ

PENNSYLVANIA - SURROUNDED BY SILVER SPHERES MOVING SOUTH

PITTSBURGH -- While looking at the night sky with his telescope
on June 27, 2003, at 11 PM, the witness with a considerable
degree of technical training noticed that one of the "stars" was
moving around. He states, "I watched the star move vertically,
horizontally, diagonally, and in squiggle's at very high rates
of speed." I broke out my telescope, and was shocked to see that
it wasn't a star, but a glowing, neon-green cylindrical shape.
It was almost worm-like. My wife, my son and I observed the
object both with the naked eye and using the telescope as it
continued to move in this manner for over an hour and a half, so
far...it's still out there. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC

NEW BRIGHTON - The witnesses were taking an evening walk on June
30, 2003, and noticed someone in a car near by point up to the
sky at 9 PM. The witness reports, "I saw a black triangle that
was standing upright at an altitude of 10 to 12,000 feet." This
black triangle in the western sky puzzled me for several
reasons. As it was in the direction of a setting sun on a clear
evening it did not reflect any sunlight as I have seen airliners
do thousands of times. The strangest thing about the whole event
was that other objects were flying with the black triangle. On
each side of this triangle appeared 3 or 4 silvery spheres lined
up at 45-degree angles for about 5 to 10 minutes. My girlfriend
also saw the triangle, but not the smaller spheres. They flew
south following the Beaver River towards Pittsburgh. I grabbed
my binoculars, but could not find the object again. I'm an
airplane enthusiast and I can identify almost any
civilian/military craft with just a glance and it was neither a
civilian nor military craft. They emitted no sound, lights, or
trail. CNN the following night at around 1 AM reported that
strange lights were seen over the city of Pittsburgh. Thanks to
Peter Davenport NUFORC

OHIO - BRILLIANT LIGHT ILLUMINATES EVERYTHING

LAFFERTY -- Yesterday, a coworker related to me a strange
experience that took place when John, was 14, back in early June
of 1983.  About 10:15 PM. he was with three others in a car when
a brilliant light illuminated everything, bright or brighter
than daylight. It scared the daylights out of them. The light
was so bright the driver had to stop the car.... they couldn't
see to drive. I asked John the size of the "light", and he said
they didn't look out of the vehicle.... too scared. They saw
nothing, except this brilliant light. John said, " He shut his
eyes and would occasionally peek, but the light hurt his eyes."
Duration of this incident was approximately 15 minutes! If
anyone has knowledge of the incident please contact me. Thanks
to Roger Bartholomew

MICHIGAN - FLYING TRIANGLE ABOVE CAMPERS

ST. IGNACE - Two campers were coming back from the showers at
midnight on July 2, 2003, at 12 AM, and happened to look up and
noticed a V shaped object with lights all along both edges. The
witness states, "My sister and I saw the round and luminous
lights, and it there was no sound and it seemed to be descending
at an angle." The shape looked like a stealth plane and in two
minutes it vanished. We both could not believe it and a woman
near us said she wondered what that was as well. The next day
our husbands talked to other people in the campground and told
them what we saw and some other people reported seeing the same
thing as well. This object was fairly large and the night was
very clear and the stars were visible. We never saw it again.
Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC

WISCONSIN - DAYLIGHT CYLINDER SPOTTED

EAGLE RIVER -- On Saturday, July 5, 2003, the witness was
putting the cover on his boat and noticed an extremely shiny
(metallic/silver) cigar-shaped object traveling in an east to
west direction. The object traveled at a very slow rate of
speed" over the evergreen forests of Vilas County. The witness
said, "There was no contrail, no wings, no windows, no lights or
anything of a discernible nature." "The object seemed to reflect
the bright sun off its surface, but then I noticed that a
vertical band of light started to appear from the front of the
object and traveled slowly to the back of the object. This band
of light appeared every 15 seconds or so and traveled over the
surface of the object from front to rear. The object did not
change speed or direction for two minutes, and was the size of a
small plane, at about a 1,000 feet. "I am truly blown away."
Thanks to John and Jenny Hoppe of UFO Wisconsin.com/

MAYVILLE - A farmer Arthur Rantala claims to have witnessed the
formation of a crop circle in a barley field. From the safety of
his work shed during a violent morning storm on July 4th, he saw
crop circles form. "It looked like a lake. The waves, the wind
blowing, and then all of the sudden this dark hole appears, like
a black hole. And then immediately, one to the right then
another to the center of it," Rantala said. Thanks to
Channel3000 http://www.channel3000.com/news/2342811/detail.html

CALIFORNIA - FLYING TRIANGLE SEEN LANDING

KETTLEMAN CITY -- It was a pitch-black night at 1 AM, as they
drove along Highway I-5 on June 30, 2003. Suddenly, three bright
equidistant white discs of light turned on heading toward them
flying lower than 1,000 feet altitude at their 10 o'clock
position. As they got closer they could see a slow moving
triangular craft traveling northwest across the highway. The
flying triangle made an aircraft like landing 2,000 feet west
and parallel to the highway. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC

SAN FRANCISCO -- My husband and I were sitting on a bench at a
marina in Berkeley CA looking across the Bay at the skyline of
San Francisco on about June 30, 2003, at 2 PM. There was some
generalized fog and there was a cover of clouds above the city.
We observed a very dark cigar shaped object move repetitively
back and forth from one end of the city to the other,
occasionally dipping into the clouds but never descending below
the cloud cover. The object did not appear to be moving fast but
it was covering considerable distances in a short amount of
time. It flew back and forth across the city in 45 seconds. The
object was significantly larger than a plane and was longer than
the width of two buildings. The movement, shape and speed were
not consistent with any modes of aircraft with which I am
familiar. We observed the object for ten minutes during which we
noted an interesting cognitive phenomenon in which as we ruled
out aircraft's that were consistent with our contextual
schemata. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC

CANADA -- BRITISH SOLDIER SIGHTING

MEDICINE HAT - A British soldier, "As a serving member of the
British army we are often in the prairie, and on one such
occasion in 1994, I was on stag (patrol) alone with a person on
the other end of the radio in case of any problems. I remember
seeing a really bright light heading towards me extremely fast
but there was no noise with it, as you would expect from a
vehicle. I shouted, "HALT advance one and be recognized," but
the lights kept coming. So I shouted, "HALT British Army advance
one and be recognized or I will fire!" But still it came. Then
it stopped about 100 meters in front of me. By this time I was
shaking since I had no live bullets in my gun and not knowing
what was going on. We are kept well informed about what to
expect, and there was still no sound around me. Suddenly the
lights turned to my right and I saw about 5 or 6 lights along
the side and then it turned away from me and shot into the
distance faster than I can imagine and then nothing. I radioed
in my report, and the guy came over and asked me to tell him
again. He said that I probably fell asleep and dreamed it, but
honestly does anybody really stand up shouting and putting a
round (blank) into the chamber of a gun, sit down and realize
what they think they have just seen and then wake up not feeling
the least bit sleepy. Thanks to Cpl K Cooper Scots DG

TERRACE, BC -- Brian Vike reports, A witness reported seeing a
strange object sitting stationary over the mountains to the
north on July 12, 2003. He was traveling on Highway #16, just
crossing the bridge over the Kalum River at 1:15 AM. He pulled
over to the side of the highway to get a better look at it. He
said the object moved from side to side, and up and down ever so
slightly. He watched the object stay in a stationary position
for 5 minutes before it exploded/or flashed brightly. At this
point it started to move downwards and he ended up losing sight
of it when it dropped behind one of the local mountains. He
described the color of it as being neon green, with a whitish
aura surrounding the object. He saw neon green and blue
twinkling lights at the bottom of the object and white flashing
lights that were more to the center of the object.

TERRACE -- On July 17, 2003, a witness reported seeing a silver,
round shaped object traveling at an extremely high rate of speed
coming from the west heading east at 8:00 PM. The sighting took
about four seconds in clear skies before it disappeared from his
line of sight. He also mentioned that it took him totally by
surprise to see something move so quickly. No sound was heard
due to the distance from the object. He said it was no "darn"
aircraft we have, as to the speed the object was traveling.

TRAIL -- In the early hours of the morning on July 17, 2003, two
witnesses watched as two low flying objects passed over the top
of the Trail Smelter. The objects slowed at one point, and then
sped back up heading in a southerly direction. The objects were
very bright orange with a halo around each of them and made no
sound. Both men thought the objects were the size of a car.
Thanks to Brian Vike, Director HBCC UFO Research 1 866 262-1989
Editor: Canadian Communicator - Magazine Website:
http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/hbcc_ufo_research.htm

HOPI INDIANS CLAIM FLYING SAUCERS AND SPACE TRAVEL EXIST

PRESCOTT -- Daily Courier article by Richard W. Kimball, "An old
American Indian rock carving near Mishongnovi, Arizona
accurately describes the existence of "flying saucers" and space
travel, according to a Hopi Indian leader. In the summer of
1970, the late Chief Dan Katchongva, in the company of his
counselor Ralph Tawangyawma and interpreter Caroline
Tawangyawma, went to the city of Prescott to learn more about
the rash of UFOs recently seen in that area.  The residents of
that central Arizona community said they saw hundreds of flying
saucers in the night sky over the city for more than two weeks
prior to the Hopi leader's arrival.  Katchongva, who died in
1972, said he believed the sightings were intimately connected
to Hopi prophecy. The traditional Hopi chieftain had long been
interested in UFOs because he believed they were a part of Hopi
religious beliefs. UFO researcher and former Prescott resident
Paul Solem said the existence of the saucers justified an old
Hopi prophecy that a "Day of Purification" was soon to arrive.

It would be a day when all wicked people and wrongdoers would be
punished or destroyed. Contact with flying saucers would signal
the first step of a massive migration northward by Indians from
Central and South America, Solem said. Chief Katchongva told
reporters that the petroglyph on the Hopi Reservation shows a
definite connection between the Indians and visitors from space.
"We believe other planets are inhabited and that our prayers are
heard there," he said. "The arrow on which the dome-shaped
object rests, stands for travel through space," Katchongva said
in explaining the rock carving. "The Hopi maiden on the dome-
shape (drawing) represents purity. Those Hopi who survive
Purification Day will travel to other planets. We, the faithful
Hopi, have seen the ships and know they are true," he said. "We
have watched nearly all of our brethren lose faith in the
original Hopi teachings and go off on their own course. Near
Oraibi the Plan of Life was clearly shown and we know that those
who have forsaken the original teachings will pay with their
lives when the True White Brother comes," he went on. The Hopi
prophecies say they will be divided three times. The first
division occurred in 1906 when Chief You-kew-ma [Yukiuma] and
his followers were forced out of the ancient Indian town of
Oraibi to begin a new community in Hotevilla, he said.

"The second division took place in 1969 when Paul Solem came and
contacted the flying saucers and they flew over and whispered
their message. Shortly before Mr. Solem came, Titus Quomayumtewa
saw a flying saucer and the Kachina that piloted it. "Paul
Sewaemanewa saw the saucer years before when he had made his
prayer rites," Katchongva said.  "These two men are of the
faithful. We know we are to be divided once more and few will be
left just before our True White Brother arrives with the
matching pieces of stone tablet. Many Hopi men wear their bang
haircut that represents a window from which they continue to
look for the True White Brother," he added.

[Editor's Note: When Dan Katchongva "died" his body was never
found. He was last seen walking up into a small valley where a
UFO had just been seen.] Thanks to the Prescott Daily Courier,
12/24/95 and Bill Hamilton Skywatch International, Inc
http://www.skywatch-research.org

ENGLAND - CHEVRON MAKES RIGHT ANGLE TURNS

LONDON -- The object was traveling southeast on July 7, 2003, at
1 AM, at the speed of a fast fighter jet, but was displaying no
flashing lights. It would then at an instant veer off at right
angels or near right angels for some distance and considerably
increase its speed before resuming a smooth flight. The color
was a soft white light that seemed to fluctuate in luminance.
The night was fully clear and moon lit. The shape was a chevron
formed by two sides of a slightly convex cigar shape. NUFORC

GREECE - GIANT METEOR OR UFO FALLS INTO THE SEA

MOUNT ATHOS - In Northern Greece television news reported that a
UFO or meteor had fallen to Earth on July 21, 2003, 7:38 PM, in
the Chalkidiki Region near Mount ATHOS. A giant light had fallen
near the coast in the sea at a height 500 meters. Thanks to
kmos@otenet.gr

ZIMBABWE - A FLYING DIAMOND CIRCLED THE AREA

HARARE -- My dad and I had just finished eating supper on June
30, 2003, at 7:17 PM, and I had decided to go out and get some
drinking water when I happened to glance in the sky just in time
to see two meteorites crossing over the sky. I kept looking
hoping to see more but not what I expected. We are poor and do
not possess a camera so I could not take any photos. It was
changing colors and as I realized it was the shape of a diamond.
I froze and it went straight up into the sky circled the area
for a couple of seconds came down and shot up again and
vanished. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC

SECRET PAPERS TELL HOW RAF HUNTED ALIENS

The Observer's Paul Harris writes, "They have been the subject
of derision for claiming aliens have visited Earth from outer
space, but believers in the existence of UFOs were this weekend
excitedly poring over newly released military documents that
show how fighter aircraft were scrambled to intercept strange
shapes in Britain's skies.  The secret papers obtained from the
US military give an insight into an astonishing chain of events
sparked by UFO sightings over East Anglia in 1956.  After
receiving numerous calls reporting bright lights darting across
the sky, fighters from RAF Lakenheath spent more than seven
hours trying to shoot down the objects, which were picked up on
army radar screens. Dave Clarke, an author researching the
subject, secured the classified documents under the US Freedom
of Information Act.

One US Air Force intelligence report described how '12 to 15'
objects were picked up on radar screens on 13 August 1956. They
were tracked for more than 50 miles. One object was logged
traveling at 4,000 mph. 'Operators making these radar sightings
are of the opinion that malfunctions of equipment did not cause
these radar sightings,' the document said.  The radar logs
describe white lights darting across the skies. At times, the
objects traveled in formation and performed sharp turns.  One
document describes how an object was tracked by radar for 26
miles, before it hovered for five minutes then flew away again.
A cable was sent from US Air Force Headquarters in Washington
warning of the 'considerable interest and concern' at the
sightings and demanding an immediate inquiry. The cable asked if
they were linked to a similar scare reported by a British radar
station on the Danish Island of Bornholm in the Baltic Sea a
week later.  Snip Thanks to paul.harris@observer.co.uk

CD of entire Web Site


A brief tale from the "Sanctuary of The Birds"

Mj12, WP Vaults, Area 51/S4, LANL, NSA and much
more..... Copyrighted 2003, Peregrine
Communications..... http://www.ufoconspiracy.com/

Robert Collins writes..... I'm offering a CD of the entire Web
Site for the nominal cost of $9.95 plus $3.95 handling and
shipping; higher H&S rates apply to Canada and other foreign
countries. All reports will be in PDF form with new
material/reports added. The quality of the PDF reports far
exceeds what the reader sees on the Web Site in either html
reports or (.jpg) and (.gif ) images. The CD will contain 72
sections, each section will have up to 16 sub sections with all
the reports totaling 60.2 MBs. To date all the feedback has been
extremely good. As the demand goes up the price will rise to $20
which will include S & H. If you think you might be interested
please email me at: lenozze1@gemair.com


HGH - THE HEALTH DISCOVERY THAT ACTUALLY REVERSES AGING

Lose weight without Dieting or Exercise! This Proven Discovery
was reported in the New England Journal of Medicine. HGH
improves your body without strenuous exercise! It decreases body
fat, reduces, wrinkles, helps improve your energy, muscle
strength and sexual potency. I found my gray hair started
growing in dark and thicker. HGH Enhancer

WHAT YOU SHOULD KNOW WHEN BUY OR SELL REAL ESTATE!

Get your free report and learn how you can obtain the best real
estate agent to help your buy or sell a home. To get a free copy
of this report e-mail me at :  Majorstar@aol.com

MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative
reports subscribe to the MUFON JOURNAL. A MUFON membership
includes the Journal and costs only $35.00 per year. To join
MUFON or to report a UFO go to http://www.mufon.com/. To ask
questions contact MUFONHQ@aol.com or HQ@mufon.com. Mention that
I recommended you for membership. "The MUFON Journal is now
accepting qualified advertising, please call 1 (303) 932-7709
for more information."

Filer's Files is copyrighted 2003 by George A. Filer, all rights
reserved. Readers may post the COMPLETE files on their Web Sites
if they credit the Newsletter and its editor by name and list
the date of issue. These reports and comments are not
necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON viewpoint. Send your letters to
Majorstar@aol.com. Sending mail automatically grants permission
for us to publish and use your name. Please state if you wish to
keep your name or e-mail confidential. CAUTION, MOST OF THESE
ARE INITIAL REPORTS AND REQUIRE FURTHER INVESTIGATION.

Regards,

George A. Filer

www.GeorgeFiler.com/








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 24

                        Washington-Baltimore Workshop

From: Peter Resta <SPR100@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 23:59:45 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 19:19:02 -0400
Subject: Washington-Baltimore Workshop


For anyone in the Washington-Baltimore area:

On Friday evening, Aug. 22, in Laurel, Maryland (roughly half-
way between D.C & Baltimore), Rob & Sue Swiatek from FUFOR will
be speaking at a "mini-workshop" called "Mysteries Of The
Skies"

Addditionally, Anna Jamerson, co-author of Connections: Solving
Our Alien Abduction Mystery will be speaking.

Cost would run about $35-40 (depending on residence).

For information: SPR 100 @aol.com or 1-866-228-6110 for
registration information.


Thank you

Peter Resta







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 24

                         'UFO' Lights Caught On Film

From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 03:51:11 -0300
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 19:23:36 -0400
Subject: 'UFO' Lights Caught On Film


Source: BBC News

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/england/hereford/worcs/3090649.stm (with photo)

23 July, 2003

Strange flashing lights above the sky in Worcestershire has
caused speculation the county was visited by aliens.

A BBC cameraman spotted three bright lights in the sky over the
Malverns near the village of Hanbury on Tuesday and filmed them
with a video camera.

Some thought it could have been flares.

But cameraman Tom Hines, who works on the BBC drama series
Doctors, said he is convinced it was a UFO.

'Disappearing lights'

"I kind of saw two bright lights and thought they were stars at
first," he said.

"I pointed out where they were and started filming. They started
disappearing and reappearing and at one point there was three
bright lights.

"They kept appearing very randomly in different areas of the
sky."

John Dawson, who lives in Hanbury, also saw the lights.

"We went through all kinds of evaluations, like could they be
fireworks, could they be flares and to be honest with you we
couldn't come to any decision as to what they were."

BBC Midlands Today's science correspondent David Gregory has
examined the tape and has spoken to local UFO experts.

He said: "It could have been the Hanbury Orbs, which are a
series of lights which are known to hover above the landscape in
this area.

"But nobody knows for sure."








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 24

                          Secrecy News -- 07/24/03

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 11:49:44 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 19:25:44 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 07/24/03


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2003, Issue No. 62
July 24, 2003


**  CLASSIFICATION UP IN 2002, DECLASS DOWN, ISOO SAYS
**  ISOO'S LEONARD ON CLASSIFICATION POLICY
**  DECLASSIFIED EXCERPTS OF 2002 IRAQ NIE
**  HOUSE VOTES TO ELIMINATE "SNEAK AND PEEK" SEARCHES
**  OTHER LEGISLATIVE ACTION ON INTEL, SECURITY
**  INTELLIGENCE AND THE POLITICS OF DISCLOSURE


CLASSIFICATION UP IN 2002, DECLASS DOWN, ISOO SAYS

The annual number of classification decisions made by
classifiers in the executive branch increased by 14 percent in
fiscal year 2002 to more than 23 million individual
classification actions while declassification activity declined
to the lowest level in seven years, according to a new report to
the President.

The report was issued by the Information Security Oversight
Office (ISOO), the executive branch agency housed at the
National Archives that oversees the implementation of the
national security classification system.

Among other statistics of interest, ISOO reported that
classification-related expenditures, which include the costs of
personnel security, physical security and associated
infrastructure, rose to $6.5 billion in government and industry.

In an introductory essay entitled "A Look to the Future of the
Security Classification System in a Post 9/11 Environment," ISOO
director J. William Leonard placed the new data in the context
of the war on terrorism, and sounded a note of caution.

"Much the same way the indiscriminate use of antibiotics reduces
their effectiveness in combating infections, classifying either
too much information or for too long can reduce the
effectiveness of the classification system, which, more than
anything else, is dependent upon the confidence of the people
touched by it."

"While there is always a temptation to err on the side of
caution, especially in times of war, the challenge for agencies
is to similarly avoid damaging the nation's security by hoarding
information," Mr. Leonard wrote.

A copy of the 2002 ISOO Report to the President, released July
23, may be found here (2.1 MB PDF file):

http://www.fas.org/sgp/isoo/2002rpt.pdf


ISOO'S LEONARD ON CLASSIFICATION POLICY

Information Security Oversight Office director William Leonard
further expounded his views on the state of the national
security classification system and the need for a fundamental
reassessment of classification policy in a June 12 presentation
to the National Classification Management Society.

His remarks included a number of specific proposals that
represent, and help to advance, an emerging consensus on
directions for reform of the classification system. Anyone with
an interest in the nuts and bolts of classification policy will
want to review it. See:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/isoo/ncms061203.html


DECLASSIFIED EXCERPTS OF 2002 IRAQ NIE

Formal classification is not the only, and perhaps not even the
most important, barrier to public access to government
information.

On June 18, the White House declassified selected excerpts from
a classified October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate on
Iraq's Weapons on Mass Destruction Program and presented them at
a background briefing for the press.

But for some reason, the White House did not make those excerpts
readily available to the public. Nor were they published in full
by the major media outlets that were represented at the press
briefing. Interested members of the public were left to
scramble, or grovel, for a copy, which may now be found here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/cia/product/iraq-wmd.html


HOUSE VOTES TO ELIMINATE "SNEAK AND PEEK" SEARCHES

The House of Representatives voted overwhelmingly this week to
nullify the authority that was granted to law enforcement
agencies in the USA Patriot Act to conduct searches without
notification in criminal investigations.

"These 'sneak and peek' searches give the government the power
to repeatedly search a private residence without informing the
resident that he or she is the target of an investigation," said
Rep. C.L. "Butch" Otter (R-ID), who introduced the amendment
that would effectively prohibit such searches.

"Not only does this [Patriot Act] provision allow the seizure of
personal property and business records without notification, but
it also opens the door to nationwide search warrants and allows
the CIA and the NSA to operate domestically," Rep. Otter said.
"American citizens, whom the government has pledged to protect
from terrorist activities, now find themselves the victims of
the very weapon designed to uproot their enemies."

The House approved the amendment on July 22 by a vote of 309-
118. See:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2003_cr/h072203.html

The House action, which has not yet been addressed by the
Senate, took the Justice Department by surprise. The Otter
amendment would have a devastating effect on the United States'
ongoing efforts to detect and prevent terrorism, as well as to
combat other serious crimes," said Department spokesman Mark
Corallo, as reported by the Associated Press.


OTHER LEGISLATIVE ACTION ON INTEL, SECURITY

Senators Charles Grassley and Patrick Leahy introduced the
"Federal Bureau of Investigation Reform Act of 2003" that would
increase protections for FBI whistleblowers, establish an FBI
counterintelligence polygraph program, and impose certain new
reporting requirements. See their July 22 introductory
statements here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2003_cr/s1440.html

The Senate rejected an amendment offered by Sen. Jeff Bingaman
(D-NM) to require a Pentagon report on the status of those
individuals who are being detained as "enemy combatants." The
amendment was an attempt to come to terms with the extraordinary
constriction of due process available to anyone the executive
branch terms an "enemy combatant." On a party line vote July 16,
the Senate rejected the attempt. See:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2003_cr/s071603.html

The Senate also rejected an amendment offered by Sen. Jon
Corzine (D-NJ) to establish a National Commission on the
Development and Use of Intelligence Related to Iraq. See:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2003_cr/s071603b.html

And the Senate rejected an amendment offered by Sen. Richard J.
Durbin (D-IL) to withhold $50 million from the intelligence
budget until Congress receives a report "on the development and
use of intelligence relating to Iraq and Operation Iraqi
Freedom." See:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2003_cr/s071703b.html


INTELLIGENCE AND THE POLITICS OF DISCLOSURE

"How can this administration declassify things, drop certain
items into the press that are complimentary and positive from
their point of view and get away with it?" asked Sen. Richard J.
Durbin (D-IL).

Sen. Durbin accused the White House of selectively declassifying
information that served its interests while attacking him for
purportedly releasing classified information. He defended
himself against such accusations in a floor statement on July
22:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2003_cr/s072203.html

Administration officials reportedly leaked the name of a CIA
clandestine services officer as an act of intimidation directed
at her husband, Ambassador Joseph Wilson, who has been a leading
critic of White House statements on Iraq. If true, this could be
a violation of the law, including the Intelligence Identities
Protection Act of 1982. The story is laid out by David Corn of
The Nation in "A White House Smear":

http://www.thenation.com/capitalgames/index.mhtml?bid=3&pid=823

The White House denied responsibility. "That is not the way this
President or this White House operates," said spokesman Scott
McClellan. "And there is absolutely no information that has come
to my attention or that I have seen that suggests that there is
any truth to that suggestion."

Questions regarding the politics of secrecy and disclosure may
arise again in connection with the report of the Congressional
Joint Inquiry, which is being released today in selectively
redacted form.




_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:  www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email: saftergood@fas.org
voice: (202) 454-4691






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 24

                     Re: What Is Real In Ufology - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 15:24:30 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 19:28:51 -0400
Subject: Re: What Is Real In Ufology - Velez


>From: Amy Hebert <amyhebert@sbcglobal.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:14:19 -0500
>Subject: Re: What Is Real In Ufology

>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>>Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 13:14:13 -0300
>>Subject: Re: What Is Real In Ufology

>>>From: Amy Hebert <amyhebert@sbcglobal.net>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 07:13:54 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: What Is Real In Ufology

><snip>

Hi All,

Amy wrote:

>First, let me make it clear that the use of the term
>'uncritical' is your choice, not mine. It's not even a word
>according to Webster's Dictionary.

And again:

>As for me being "uncritical", that is _your_ made-up word for
>_your_ opinion of me - not necessarily my opinion or everyone
>else's opinion. I do not have to include myself in your made-up
>categories if I don't agree...and I don't.

Thought I'd share this. Merriam-Webster Dictionary provides the
following definition for the word, 'uncritical'.

Main Entry: un=B7crit=B7i=B7cal
Pronunciation: "&n-'kri-ti-k&l
Function: adjective
Date: 1659
1 : not critical : lacking in discrimination
2 : showing lack or improper use of critical standards or procedures

I was verbally swiped at (twice) for having 'made up' the word,
'uncritical.' I guess all that was needed to clear things up was
just a little 'unbiased' research into the matter.


Regards,

John Velez







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 24

                    Re: Filer's Files #30 -- 2003 - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 16:05:01 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 19:35:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #30 -- 2003 - Velez


>From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 15:12:41 EDT
>Subject: Filer's Files #30 -- 2003

>Filer's Files #30 -- 2003 Skywatch Investigations.
>George A. Filer,  Director Mutual UFO Network Eastern
>July 23, 2003,  Majorstar@aol.com  Webmaster: Chuck
>Warren -- My website is at: www.GeorgeFiler.com/
>Sponsored by: OPC-3


>SIGHTINGS CONTINUE WITH DISC OVER NEW YORK

Thanks to George Filer and Peter Davenport for the following:

>NEW YORK - FOUR WITNESSES SEE DISC WITH THIRTY WINDOWS.

>JFK AIRPORT - At 11:30 PM, four witnesses were going into the
>Howard Beach Subway Station on June 28, 2003, when they saw a
>saucer flying overhead. There was a saucer shaped object with
>the usual half sphere middle part with three rows of 8 to 10
>windows. It was emitting a gloomy white light/haze all over it
>and a blinking sharp white light from the bottom. It was
>hovering low in the horizon near the airport. It stayed in one
>position about 300 meters high then moved slowly to the right
>while lowering itself. Then it came back to its original
>position, but much closer to the ground and got out of sight,
>because it was lower than a building. It might have landed.
>Other people also saw it, but did not pay attention. It was not
>an airplane. Several airplanes flew by paying no attention to
>the UFO. I followed its movements and saw it from time to time
>covered by the trees. We all knew we had never seen anything
>like that before and somehow I had a very nice relaxing feeling
>over the excitement of the unusual sight. Thanks to Peter
>Davenport NUFORC


For many years I have been reporting discs and spheres that
circumnavigate the same areas of the sky/corridors that
commercial jets use when coming or going from JFK International.
Several years ago I expressed concern over this fact. Here again
is a report of a 'UFO' observed by multiple witnesses at close
range right by the Howard Beach subway station. That station is
directly alongside the parking lot followed by the north end of
one of the busiest landing strips at JFK.

I find it alarming that an unknown object/craft is being
reported in this particular area. The possibility of a _major_
collision is particularly high in just that place. The
airplanes are _low_ (and I mean, 'throw a pebble and hit em'
low) when they fly over the Howard Beach subway station.

More New York city commercial airliner stuff:

>STATEN ISLAND - Seven people swimming saw a strange object in
>the sky. The witness states, I was in the pool with my dad and
>my uncle when I saw a dot far away in the sky on July 13, 2003,
>at 7:30 PM. As we got out of the pool we saw four dots that
>stayed in the same position. By that time all seven of us began
>to look and saw seven dots. We also saw two dots revolving
>around each other and flashing brightly. At that time, as we
>were looking at the dots, two commercial airliner almost
>collided! It was very bizarre and all seven of us agreed that
>this sighting was something from a different planet. What made
>it even more bizarre was the amount of military aircraft that
>followed. I've never seen so many jets in my life! There was
>something in the air tonight and I really do believe that it was
>a UFO. We all do. Thanks to Peter Davenport <www.nuforc.org>
>NUFORC


Again, 'UFOs' appear to pose a real threat to commercial
aircraft. I have been videotaping these white discs and little
spheres in the vicinity of JFK since 1996. I hope a loss of life
doesn't ever happen as a result of a collision with one of these
'unidentified' aerial objects. There have already been run-ins
with these 'things' at the Mexico City airport. Such aerial
collisions are not as far-fetched as some may think.


Regards,

John Velez
1 mile from Howard Beach station and JFK






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 24

                      Secrecy News -- 07/24/03 (EXTRA)

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 16:08:10 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 19:38:25 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 07/24/03 (EXTRA)


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2003, Issue No. 63
July 24, 2003 (EXTRA)


**   JOINT INQUIRY REPORT ON 9/11


JOINT INQUIRY REPORT ON 9/11

A declassified version of the congressional joint inquiry report
on the September 11 terrorist attacks was released this
afternoon following an arduous seven-month declassification
process.

A copy of the 858 page document (in a large 6.5 MB PDF file) is
posted here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2002_rpt/911rept.pdf

Of particular interest to Secrecy News readers may be the final
Appendix on "Access Limitations Encountered by the Joint
Inquiry."

It describes a number of documents or topical areas to which
congressional investigators were denied access.  These included
the President's Daily Brief, reports on foreign liaison
relationships, information on intelligence budget requests, and
more.  On other crucial topics, congressional access was limited
or delayed.  This Appendix appears at pages 834-858 of the
report.

Another item of special interest is a newly released General
Accounting Office (GAO) analysis of the October 2001 anthrax
attacks.  The December 2002 GAO assessment had been restricted
as "Limited Official Use Only."  It is now published at pages
808-822 of the report.


_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
     secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

Secrecy News is archived at:
     http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood@fas.org
voice:  (202) 454-4691






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 24

              Re: Chupacabras Prints To Be Studied By GEO Group

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 19:41:08 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 22:17:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Chupacabras Prints To Be Studied By GEO Group


>From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:07:58 -0400
>Subject: Chupacabras Prints To Be Studied By GEO Group


>SOURCE: Diario "El Centro" (Talca, Chile)
>DATE: July 21, 2003

>CHUPACABRAS PRINTS TO BE STUDIED BY GEO GROUP

>CURICO. The prestigious GEO Group, devoted to the study of UFO
>phenomena, is studing the prints left by the alleged
>"Chupacabras" which apparently attacked thirty chickens during
>early morning hours last Tuesday in La Palmilla, Rauco commune.

<snip>

>"We believe it's an extraterrestrial pet, a programmed being, a
>hybrid or cloned species designed to extract bodily fluids or
>liquids from the birds in order to feed itself, or with another
>purpose altogether. It is associated to the UFO phenomenon and
>is very intelligent. For this reason it will not be captured,"
>he added.


Thanks, Scott, for sharing that interesting report.

Unfortunately, it sounds as though those involved are sold out
to wide-eyed belief that the predating animal is some form of
extraterrestrial.

Then, too, I'd bet that "the prestigious GEO Group" is poorly
experienced at interpreting footprints for purpose of
objectively identifying the printmaker, or even in understanding
(depending on the substrate) how the actual foot may have
differed (and the variance may be large) from the ichnite
(trace) remaining. Substrate condition at the time the imprints
were made, pedal dynamics, and taphonomy must all be carefully
analyzed. I doubt the UFO group has any meaningful experience or
qualifications in that respect, and it would be far better that
the tracks (or casts of them) be examined by experts in tracking
wildlife of the area. Some native hunters (if there are any in
the area), if carefully not told of the purely suppositional
Chupacabra connection, might be the best experts to consult, if
there is no professional track expert in the area that has no
Chupacabra axe to grind.

Otherwise, we have almost the disadvantage of blind Norsemen in
the 10th century trying do interpret an elephant by touch alone,
when having heard the rumor that there is a terrible monster
around somewhere.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
 trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 24

                            'UFO' Glow Dims Homes

From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 21:38:27 -0300
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 22:24:00 -0400
Subject: 'UFO' Glow Dims Homes


Source: Hawkes Bay Today - New Zealand

http://www.mytown.co.nz/story/mytstorydisplay.cfm?storyID=3514755&thecity=hawkes
bay&thepage=home&type=nzh&storytoolsnzh=1

07-26-03

UFO Glow Dims Homes
Regan Horrell

Part of the sky above Napier was aglow last night, prompting one
resident to wonder if an extra-terrestrial visitor had arrived.

The resident phoned Hawke's Bay Today reporting "a round,
flashing thing spinning round and round with green lights" in
the sky shortly after 7pm.

Power company Unison's customs relations manager Bill Hewitt's
suggestion for the "huge flash" was more down to earth.

Mr Hewitt said a line clash created an automatic re-close on a
33,000-volt line at Fernhill.

That resulted in a power dip in homes, with street lighting
going out for a few minutes in most of Napier at 7.07pm.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 24

                       Aliens More Like Arnie Than ET

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 22:30:09 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 22:30:09 -0400
Subject: Aliens More Like Arnie Than ET




Source: The Australian

http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,6801101%255E13762,00.html

July 24, 2003

Aliens More Like Arnie Than ET
By Leigh Dayton, Science writer

If extraterrestrials exist they look more like the steely
Terminator than cuddly ET, say scientists on a cosmic quest for
smart aliens.

"The rise of the machines? There's a lot of Hollywood in there,
a lot of crashing and smashing about, but it's possible,"
astronomer and science historian Steve Dick said of the
Terminator movies.

According to his new view of ET, intelligent aliens long ago
dispensed with weak flesh-and-blood bodies in favour of steel-
hard sinews and silicon brains.

Dr Dick, of the US Naval Observatory in Washington, based his
argument on the "intelligence principle" - when a species can
improve its intelligence it will do so.

"If you don't get smarter you get left behind," Dr Dick said
yesterday at the International Union of Astronomy conference,
meeting in Sydney.

He said the earliest that "post-biologicals" could have evolved
in the oldest and most distant galaxies was 7.5 billion years
ago.

That's a mere 6 billion years after the big bang that created
the universe 13.7 billion years ago.

According to Dr Dick, such superior beings would have begun
existence as dim-witted primordial life, evolved into
intelligent but biological lifeforms, and then made the
evolutionary leap to brainy machine life.

Seth Shostak, an astronomer with the SETI Institute in
California, yesterday agreed with Dr Dick, who will publish his
ideas in an upcoming edition of the International Journal of
Astrobiology.

"It's an idea I've been pushing for 10 years, Dr Shostak said.

"It's fairly obvious that the assumption the aliens would be
soft and squishy little grey guys ... is clearly provincial.
They might be grey, but they won't have big almond eyes."

Instead, Dr Shostak speculates that machine life would have a
utilitarian appearance because "they don't have to appeal to
mates".

As well, he predicted the machines would be compact, because
their intelligence would be limited only by internal
connections, running at the speed of light.

And if and when we find the new ET, will he, she or it be
dangerous?

"Well, I have some goldfish, and I'm a lot smarter than they
are, but I don't wake up thinking I've got to kill those guys,"
Dr Shostak said.

"I don't think we need to worry about the machines."


[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 25

               Cattle Mutilations In Choele Choele (Rio Negro)

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 08:02:46 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 20:00:11 -0400
Subject: Cattle Mutilations In Choele Choele (Rio Negro)


SOURCE: Rio Negro On Line
DATE: 24 July 2003

CHOELE CHOEL (AVM).- The cattle mutilations caper, which was
brought to a close among some officials with the explanation
that the animals were attacked - after dead - by a strange red
mouse, continues to be a source of bewilderment in Valle Medio
as mutilated animals continue to appear.

Last Tuesday, personnel from the Sociedad Rural, a veterinarian
and a farmhand from a local ranch found a cow - showing
incisions similar to the ones seen last year - in a rural locale
some 60 km from the city.

The animal - they said - presented clear signs of mutilation: it
was missing an eye, its udders and its reproductive organs.
These had been removed with surgical precision and there were no
tracks near the animal that would enable determining exactly
what attacked it. "As a whole, whenever an animal dies a natural
death there is much kicking, or rigor mortis shortly afterward,
but there's nothing like that here," stated an astonished
Enrique S=E1nchez of the Sociedad Rural. "Another suprising factor
was that it was a young animal that was with its calf, but the
calf did not approach the carcass."

Veterinarian Carlos Montobbio pointed out that "the animal was
found in the El Gualeguay ranch belogning to Arsenio Ferrarino,
a rural cattleman with years of experience. But like his
farmhand, who made the find, he has never seen anything like
it."

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Translation (C) 2003 Scott Corrales Institute of Hispanic Ufology
Special thanks to Gloria Coluchi

Visit the INEXPLICATA Website At:

www.inexplicata.us








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 25

                 More Mutilated Cattle In La Pampa Argentina

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 08:14:14 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 20:02:11 -0400
Subject: More Mutilated Cattle In La Pampa Argentina


SOURCE: El Diario de la Pampa
DATE: Thursday, July 24, 2003

MORE MUTILATED CATTLE IN LA PAMPA

General Acha (Agencia) - On Wednesday, July 16, three calves and
a cow were found mutilated in fields adjacent to this city.
"Until one sees it, or it happens to [ones animals], one doesn't
believe it," said a cattleman whose property is located some 30
kilometers from Genera Acha and who asked El Diario to keep his
identity confidential.

The cattleman said than on July 16, "two calves and a 'masked'
calf, weighing some 200 kg. each, were found mutilated some 500
meters away from his house in a flat open field. The males were
missing an eye, an ear and their tongues, while the female was
had its nipples sheared off with surgical precision," he noted,
betraying his surprise when he said "when we found them, they
were still issuing some sort of smoke or vapor from their
carcasses, as though recently dead."

"All of the animals had their heads pointed southward," he
pointed out, noting that "he was certain that the animals had
been alive the previous evening."   "We did not dare get close
to them or touch them, but on the fourth day, no animal,
predador, fox or chimango (vulture) came close," he said.
Finally, the confused cattleman said: "We plucked up our
courage, got them together and burned them."

Another cattleman who told a similar story explained that that
very same Wednesday, "a very docile cow that was near the house
vanished, and was later found two secions away from where it
normally grazed."

The livestock farmer explained that "these are 200 hectare
pastures" and that the mutilations on the cow were similar to
those which have been reported on so many occasions. He added
that in this case, "the cow was very docile and would have never
jumped over the barbed wire fences that divide the three
sections, because the gates were properly closed and no fence
was broken." In both cases, livestock farmers indicated that
they did not file reports with the police or with the courts,
since they understood that such complaints would not be taken
seriously.

For more information:
http://www.eldiariodelapampa.com.ar/provinciales.htm

===============================================
Translation (C) 2003 Scott Corrales Institute of Hispanic Ufology
Special thanks to Gloria Coluchi

Visit the INEXPLICATA Website at:

www.inexplicata.us







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 25

                          Watford UK UFO Sightings

From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:38:27 -0300
Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 20:07:12 -0400
Subject: Watford UK UFO Sightings


Source: Watford Observer - UK

http://www.watfordobserver.co.uk/news/localnews/display.var.397262.0.ufo_sightin
gs_reported.php

25th July 2003

Residents in Croxley reported sightings of a UFO which circled
above them for ten minutes before vanishing without trace.

Mervin Harris, from Forbuoys Newsagents on Baldwins Lane,
Croxley, witnessed it yesterday (Thursday) at 4pm.

He said: "It went across in front of me."

Five locals are reported to have seen the strange craft.







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 25

               Re: Scientists Say Crop Circles Were No Prank -

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 11:54:56 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 20:10:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Scientists Say Crop Circles Were No Prank -


>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:54:00 +0100
>Subject: Re: Scientists Say Crop Circles Were No Prank

>>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:01:51 -0700
>>Subject: Re: Scientists Say Crop Circles Were No Prank

>>>From: Michel M. Deschamps <ufoman@interlynx.net>
>>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 02:43:03 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: Scientists Say Crop Circles Were No Prank

>>>Personally... when the first plain circles were found in the
>>>early 1990s, I thought they might have been landing traces...
>>>but soon after... and since then, I've learned pretty quickly
>>>that they're separate phenomena or aspects connected to... or
>>>part of... the ET factor.

>>I don't understand this statement. Crop circles have been
>>recorded for over one hundred years. The earliest were simple
>>circles in hay and corn fields. It's only lately that they've
>>become so elaborate.

>Sorry, but this is not the case. Where is the evidence for these
>century old crop-circles? There is the famous "Mowing Devil"
>broadsheet from the 18th century, the relevance of which to
>crop-circles is marginal, to say the least. There are a few
>anamalous marking and swirls in crops recorded from the 1970s
>(like the infamous "Tully Saucer Nests" in Queensland) which are
>more analogous to wind damage than the neat circles of the '80s
>and '90s.

>The origin of the crop circle phenomenon was Southern England in
>the 1980s. There was nothing before then even remotely similar.

I've seen drawings (not photos) of simple circular crop
formations from the early 1900's, but can't seem to find the
link. I did find this link which also indicates that crop
circles have a long history.

http://members.xoom.virgilio.it/mmmgroup/e-ancrops.html

>Consider this: right at the heart of English crop circle country
>lies the town of Warminster. In the 1960s and 1970s this town
>was absolutley awash with ufologists from all around the world
>looking for 'The Thing'. Every weekend ufologists climbed every
>hill in the vicinity looking for UFOs - in the sky and possibly
>landed as well - and there was only one report which, in
>retrospect, could have been interpreted as a crop circle.

>So if they've been around for years - centuries even - why were
>they not an integral part of the UFO story during this period?
>Almost everything else which happened in Warminster has been
>recorded in a UFO context in the writings of Arthur Shuttlewood
>and dozens of others who were there at the time.

Interesting question. I don't have an answer.


Ed








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 25

               CCCRN News: First 2003 Canadian Crop Formation

From: Paul Anderson <psa@cccrn.ca>
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 12:02:51 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 20:14:03 -0400
Subject: CCCRN News: First 2003 Canadian Crop Formation



CCCRN NEWS
E-News from the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network

July 25, 2003

http://www.cccrn.ca

_____________________________


First Canadian Crop Formation of 2003

The first known formation for this year was found July 23, near
Stewarttown, Ontario.

Preliminary ground photos are of a large ringed circle with two
other circles attached, in wheat. Centre circle is approximately
16.5 metres (54 feet) diameter, with a surrounding ring
approximately 32 metres (106 feet) diameter and the two attached
circles are approximately 16 metres (52 feet) and 13.5 metres
(44 feet) diameter. Near location of formations at Georgetown
and Limehouse in 2002.

Some preliminary details noted already from an initial
inspection by CCCRN Ontario coordinator Joanna Emery include
swollen / stretched stalk nodes, a small fly or fly-like insect
seemingly "stuck" to a cloverleaf plant by it's head and odd
"splays" of "randomly downed appearing crop" in all the circles
as well as a small "grapeshot" splay nearby, suggesting again
there may be a connection in some cases between circular or
geometric formations and random ones. Apparent lodging can also
be seen in some nearby fields. Lay in all circles and ring is
counterclockwise.

Initial CCCRN field report and photos are now posted on the
CCCRN web site, with more images to be added soon.

Also...

Another interesting formation was reported by Matt Rock of CCCRN
Ontario on July 22. Another field in the nearby region which he
had seen as empty the evening before, was covered with randomly
downed areas by the next morning. In among these areas is
another long "snake- like" pathway of flattened crop running
through the field, in which the plants are flattened both
radially outward from the centre part of the pathway and in
large swirls, following the valley contours of the field and up
(or down?) a hill along the edge of a nearby road. Further
details pending on this report also.

Some other additional recently obtained ground photos have also
been added to the Crop Circles in Canada Archives for a couple
older reports, the Saskatoon, Saskatchewan (1993) and Midale,
Saskatchewan #5 (1999) formations.

http://www.cccrn.ca

____________________________


The Prairie Circular

Want more? Subscribe to The Prairie Circular, the quarterly
print newsletter of CCCRN and keep informed with the latest
news, updates, articles, reviews and complete crop circle
coverage from the Canadian prairies and across the country...
only from CCCRN! Only $12.00 Canadian per year. Further info:

http://www.cccrn.ca/theprairiecircular.html

Current issue: Spring 2003

____________________________


CCCRN News is the e-news service of the Canadian Crop Circle
Research Network, providing e-mail updates with the latest news
and reports on the crop circle phenomenon in Canada, as well as
other information on CCCRN-related projects and events, sent
free to your e-mail

To subscribe, send an e-mail with either Subscribe CCCRN News or
in the subject line to:

cccrnnews@cccrn.ca

The Canadian Crop Circle Research Network is a non-profit
research organization which has been seriously investigating and
documenting the crop circle phenomenon and other possibly
related phenomena in Canada since 1995, creating a liason
between researchers, farmers, the public, media and scientists

C. Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, 2003







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 25

               Re: Scientists Say Crop Circles Were No Prank -

From: Paul Anderson <psa@cccrn.ca>
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 12:42:59 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 20:16:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Scientists Say Crop Circles Were No Prank -


>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:54:00 +0100
>Subject: Re: Scientists Say Crop Circles Were No Prank

>Sorry, but this is not the case. Where is the evidence for these
>century old crop-circles? There is the famous "Mowing Devil"
>broadsheet from the 18th century, the relevance of which to
>crop-circles is marginal, to say the least. There are a few
>anamalous marking and swirls in crops recorded from the 1970s
>(like the infamous "Tully Saucer Nests" in Queensland) which are
>more analogous to wind damage than the neat circles of the '80s
>and '90s.

>The origin of the crop circle phenomenon was Southern England in
>the 1980s. There was nothing before then even remotely similar.

>Consider this: right at the heart of English crop circle country
>lies the town of Warminster. In the 1960s and 1970s this town
>was absolutley awash with ufologists from all around the world
>looking for 'The Thing'. Every weekend ufologists climbed every
>hill in the vicinity looking for UFOs - in the sky and possibly
>landed as well - and there was only one report which, in
>retrospect, could have been interpreted as a crop circle.

>So if they've been around for years - centuries even - why were
>they not an integral part of the UFO story during this period?
>Almost everything else which happened in Warminster has been
>recorded in a UFO context in the writings of Arthur Shuttlewood
>and dozens of others who were there at the time.


Hi John and List,

There _is_ evidence for older cases. I would recommend Terry
Wilson's book The Secret History of Crop Circles as a good
starting point.

In addition however, I recently posted to this List verification
of a case from 1880 in England. I had seen references to this
case before, which had been discussed. This was the description
of simple circles in a wheat field in Surrey, England, described
as circular in shape with standing centres of stalks, very
similar to many still seen today. This account is from a known
scientist of the time, J. Rand Capron, in a letter to the editor
of Nature magazine. I recently found a print copy of the letter.
This is taken from the original magazine, from microfilm here in
the Vancouver library, not just the reprint in the Journal of
Meteorology in 2000 which people were discussing previously.

Granted, there are no photographs as is the case with most of
these old reports, but the desriptions are virtually identical
to what is found today. What makes these more compelling to me,
and worthy of attention, are the numerous accounts from farmers
and landowners going back at least several decades of similar
formations, including here in Canada and other countries. We
have uncovered some previously unknown cases in this country,
which are accounts directly from such people, the oldest known
currently being 1925 in Alberta. We also have numerous cases
from the 1950s to 1970s in Canada which are in the archives. A
few photos are available from the 1970s. I don't think we should
just ignore such testimony.

Andreas Mueller in Germany recently learned of a case there from
during World War II, in which a group of soldiers saw multiple
circles in a crop field.

Crop circles did not start in the 1980s in England, that is a myth.

This evidence also suggests that perhaps England has not always
been the "hub" of the phenomenon the way it is now. Just because
there may be few cases from Warminster in that time period does
not mean there weren't others being found in other locations.
The phenomenon is global, the problem is some people still have
the impression (a lot of the public anyway and the media), that
it is something which has only been in England since the 1980s
or so. Wrong! There are many recorded cases from multiple
countries going back well before anybody ever even first heard
of them there (and other accounts from other areas in England as
well going back just as far).

I'm not saying this is proof of anything, but many of the
accounts we have are similar enough to certainly warrant further
inquiry.

Just food for thought.....


Paul Anderson

http://www.cccrn.ca







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 25

                Issues Swamp Gas Journal Now Available Online

From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows@Ms.UManitoba.CA>
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 16:23:40 CST
Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 21:57:58 -0400
Subject: Issues Swamp Gas Journal Now Available Online


After receiving numerous requests, I have located all the files
in their various directories and have made back issues of The
Swamp Gas Journal available online at:

www.geocities.com/thecynicalview

For those who may not remember, The Swamp Gas Journal was a
ufozine published in hard copy beginning in 1978 and continued
until the late 1990s. Predating word processors in common use
today, most issues were not in electronic format. However, a
dozen or so were rescued from floppy discs and have been
uploaded to my website.

In addition, a brand-new Special Issue No. 6 of the Swamp Gas
Journal (Summer 2003) has been produced, and is available with
all the rest in this directory.

And you thought you didn't have anything else to read this
summer!


- Chris Rutkowski







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 25

             Re: 'Other commitments' Kept Aliens From UFO Daze?

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 18:04:48 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 22:06:11 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Other commitments' Kept Aliens From UFO Daze?


>From: Eustquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:16:37 -0300
>Subject: 'Other commitments' May Have Kept Aliens From UFO Daze


>Source: The Sheboygan Press - Illinois

Sheboygan is in Wisconsin, not in Illinois.

Jerry Clark


>http://www.wisinfo.com/sheboyganpress/news/archive/local_11353418.shtml

>July 21, 2003

>By Nhia C. Yang
>Sheboygan Press staff





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 25

             Re: Underground City Images Analysis Un-Convincing

From: Diane Harrison - AUFORN <auforn@hypermax.net.au>
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 08:54:33 +1000
Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 22:11:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Underground City Images Analysis Un-Convincing


>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 17:25:06 -0700 (PDT)
>Subject: CI: Underground City Images Analysis Un-Convincing

>Cydonian Imperative
>7-18-03

>Close Analysis of "Underground City" Images Fails to
>Convince
>by Mac Tonnies

>Lots of links. See:
>http://www.mactonnies.com/cydonia.html (page 40)

>In 2002, Mars anomalists heatedly debated the authenticity of an
>infra-red image which supposedly depicted grid-like structures
>below the surface of Cydonia. No clear-cut answer to the
>controversy ever surfaced, but the majority of commentators,
>myself included, found the "underground city" presented by
>Richard Hoagland and Mike Bara (of the Enterprise Mission) less-
>than-compelling. (For my editorial on the alleged "city," see
>page 34.)

<snip>

>-end-

Hi Mac list

A friend of mine went to an astronomy lecture at the Queensland
University in Brisbane this week. QU presented some of the
worlds top astronomers and Scientists lecturing on Science and
Astronomy research and development.

One of the topics they covered in detail was Mars and a manned
mission to Mars.

They said if the Australian Government and US Government gave
priority funding for the Mars project then they could have a man
on Mars within 5 years.

My friend said: one scientist stated that research development
funding is a lot less now and they can only attribute this to
the funds funding the war on terror.

Mac it is a shame that a project as great as this has to rely on
government funding and... as we are all know Gov funding never
seems to get to where its supposed to go.

The lecture covered the face on Mars they showed pictures of it
a close range. My astronomer friend George said it didn't look
like a face at all and scientist said it was not a face but an
optical illusion?

Another Mars structure covered was the Mars pyramids and when
questioned scientists would not or could not confirm or deny
that these structures were not real. Yet they clearly stated the
face was not??.

So Mac, are the Mars pyramids real and were they made by an
ancient civilisation or are they too an optical illusion. I
guess a manned mission to Mars will be able to confirm these
facts for sure.

Errol, Mac, List, I wonder if there is anyone on this List with
contacts or enough money to fund a great project such as this a
$200 billion dollor donation would be a good ball park figure to
start with 'right folks'.

I know some of you might think I'm little off my trolley with
this kind of thinking, but hey, I see this kind of research as a
great investment for the human race especially when when some
Governments are only thinking of nuclear war and blowing up the
planet.

I personally would feel a hell of a lot more comfortable knowing
I had somewhere else to go.


Regards,

Diane Harrison

National Director of The Australian UFO Research Network
Australian Skywatch Director

~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
THE AUSTRALIAN UFO RESEARCH NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

E-Mail: auforn@hypermax.net.au
E-mail: ufologist@hypermax.net.au
http://www.hypermax.net.au/~auforn

ADMINISTRATION:

PO Box 738
Beaudessert 4285
QLD Australia
Tel 07 55 44 6888
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
Australian UFO Research Network Hotline Number
         1800 77 22 88 Freecall
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>

All NEW UFO Bookshop at
http://www.contactpublishing.com







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 25

                             The Sky's The Limit

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 22:39:06 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 22:39:06 -0400
Subject: The Sky's The Limit




Source: The Terrace Standard - Terrace, British Columbia

http://www.terracestandard.com/portals-code/list.cgi?paper=33&cat=23&id=88194&mo
re=

Jul 23 2003


The Sky's The Limit

By Jennifer Lang

Terrace's reputation as B.C.'s UFO capital is creating a new
kind of tourism boom in the region.

Curious travellers from across North America are inquiring about
the tourism facilities in communities across Highway 16,
including Terrace, says a UFO researcher based in Houston, B.C.

"You would be surprised just how many emails I get over the
months requesting information for our areas," says Brian Vike,
editor of Canadian Communicator, a magazine specializing in the
paranormal, and director of HBCC-UFO Research.

Earlier this year, Terrace cracked the top 10 in a national UFO
survey, earning third place, just ahead of Houston, where Vike
operates a toll-free UFO hotline so he can collect and
investigate eye-witness reports.

Terrace recorded the third highest number of UFO sightings in
the country last year, bringing national and international
attention to the region, Vike says.

The resulting publicity means the northwest is rapidly emerging
as one of the best places to see UFOs in Canada.

Savvy tourists know they're more likely to see a flying saucer
than the elusive Kermode bear, the white form of a black bear
that is the city's official symbol.

Vike says he's often contacted by UFO buffs and the just plain
curious who want to know about the region's tourist attractions
and accommodations.

"Many have never been up this way," Vike says. "So I give them
the lowdown on what our communities have."

He tells them about camp sites in the area, the excellent
hiking, fishing and boating opportunities here, the beautiful
scenery and the range of wildlife.

"As a matter of fact, I receive so many emails, I was going to
put up a page on my website which would give information to
tourists on what we have."

Vike says 2003 is shaping up to be another record year for UFO
sightings in the skies over Terrace, where 25 sightings were
recorded last year, suggesting more national and international
attention could be on its way.

"Right now Terrace has darn near caught up to last year's total
count for sightings," he says.

UFO-related tourism is a growing market in the rest of the
world.

Vulcan, a town of 1,700 in southern Alberta that's home to a
replica starship and a tourist information centre built to look
like a space station, isn't the only place cashing in on its Sci
Fi cachet.

St. Paul, Alberta was out of the gate back in 1967, when it
built the world's first UFO landing pad, ensuring that future
space travel would be safe for all intergalactic beings.

"All visitors from earth or otherwise are welcome to this
territory and to the Town of St. Paul," reads an inscription
beside the 12-metre-diameter concrete pad.

The tiny U.S. town of Rachel, Nevada, meanwhile, has capitalized
on its proximity to the mysterious Area 51, thought to be a
secret U.S. military base.

Rachel's tourism industry began to take off in the late 1980s,
thanks to its reputation as a reliable location for sightings,
drawing ever larger numbers of "UFO tourists".

Nearby Nevada State Highway 375 was officially renamed the
"Extraterrestrial Highway" to reflect the large number of
sightings along this stretch of road.

Enterprising community leaders in other countries have boarded
the UFO tourism spaceship, too.

Last year, a Chilean mayor took the bold move of designating the
region near his town as an official UFO tourism zone because so
many sightings have taken place in the Andes mountains there.

That's the kind of notoriety places like Terrace, Houston, and
other Highway 16 towns could easily take advantage of.

While Terrace may presently lack an officially-sanctioned UFO
tourism strategy, Vike is functioning as an unofficial
intergalactic ambassador, sharing the region's latest eye-
witness reports and his own pet theories with a curious world.

From Houston headquarters, he keeps busy doing interviews with
newspapers, TV shows and radio talk shows all over North
America.

Canada's Life network shot 18 hours of footage with Vike in
Houston, Smithers and Telkwa in February. A documentary will air
this fall season or early in the new year.

"All of this is great for tourism," he says, reminding northwest
residents to keep their eyes to the skies this summer.

Vike has noticed a new pattern in the most recent reports: more
eyewitnesses in the northwest are reporting objects in the sky,
instead of just unexplained, or oddly-moving lights.

One sighting reported by multiple witnesses across a wide
geographic area involved gigantic triangles.

Others have reported seeing crescent or ring-shaped objects in
the sky.

Vike adds a number of eyewitnesses reported seeing a large,
saucer-shaped disk travelling from Mill Bay on Vancouver Island
to Kitimat past the Alcan Smelter and on towards Prince Rupert
and Terrace.

Vike, a former forestry industry worker, tries to uncover likely
explanations for what eyewitnesses have seen.

The planet Venus is sometimes mistaken for a UFO. Other
sightings are later found to be aircraft, meteors, satellites,
stars or even blimps, says Vike, who once belonged to the Royal
Astronomical Society and volunteered at the planetarium in
Vancouver.]

Vike's got a toll-free number: 1-866-262-1989, and a website:
www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/hbcc_ufo_research.htm


[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 25

                   UFO Festival Should Have Been Abducted

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 23:09:57 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 23:09:57 -0400
Subject: UFO Festival Should Have Been Abducted




Source: The Plainview Daily Herald, Texas

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=3D9872361&BRD=3D517&PAG=3D461&dept=
_id=3D473182&rfi=3D6

UFO Festival Should Have Been Abducted
Wyatt Buchanan

Herald Staff Writer
07-19-03

If I were an alien, I would not return to Roswell, N.M.

That was my concluding thought as I drove out of that town on
the Fourth of July weekend, headed south to Carlsbad Caverns
National Park.

Imagine that the Roswell landing story is true (and I'm in no
position to say it is or is not). What that means is living,
thinking beings from another world made contact with Earth. The
implications are profound and the science astounding.

So, how do those true believers in Roswell and around the
country commemorate? With a UFO festival that is one of the
lamest city celebrations I've ever suffered through.

My hometown festival -- the Meridian (Idaho) Dairy Days -- is far
superior (dairymen hand out free chocolate milk and Fudgesicles
to the crowd during the big parade). The olfactory wonders of
the Gilroy (Calif.) Garlic Festival beat the pants off Roswell,
too.

Folks, this shouldn't be.

Roswell is one of those mythical American cities that most
curious people would visit if they were ever close by.

Take me, for example. I'm a short-timer in West Texas (six weeks
to go, and I still haven't sampled enough barbecue) and I
decided to drive six hours round trip, by myself, over a holiday
weekend, to see this place.

Most everyone has heard of Roswell (how many cities with a
population of 45,000 can you say that about?) and most people
have at least some interest in aliens.

If those factors were celebrated to their fullest potential, one
could imagine a Burning Man-type festival of the Southwest, with
Black Rock City as the supposed crash site.

If those factors were exploited to their fullest potential, the
festival would raise a lot of money for the town and festival
promoters.

Sadly, neither is happening.

Here's what I found on my visit:

One has to drive through the whole town to find the festival and
there are no signs pointing the way. I asked a clerk at a gas
station for directions. He grimaced and told me to "just keep
driving that way," pointing south.

The road eventually splits, sending drivers in sharply different
directions. One goes to the festival. The other into the heart
of darkness that is Eastern New Mexico. Guess what: there is no
sign telling drivers which way to go.

The festival itself consists of a couple of kiddie toys, some
food booths and two exhibit halls. There might have been 150
people there and the booths were mediocre.

A few bands played outside, which was the highlight of the
event. One act, The Dibs, drove 24 hours from Long Beach,
Calif., to play to what they were told would be a crowd of
15,000-20,000. There were maybe 15 people watching, each
fighting for the shade.

At the end of their set, the band begged people to buy their CD
so they would have enough gas money to get home. (I bought one.
It's good, really good.)

After seeing all there was to see in about 20 minutes (not
including watching the bands) I visited the alien museum
downtown.

It was hopping and the Roswell incident information is
interesting, though the exhibits on UFOs in other parts of the
world could use a lot more work.

I stayed and watched the city fireworks, but I didn't stay for
the second day, or for the Merle Haggard concert, which I bet
attracted quite a crowd.

Driving to Carlsbad, I was disappointed that the UFO hype (my
own and the promoters) fell short of reality.

This week, we got a fax at the paper promoting the Third Annual
Dragonfly Festival Aug. 23-24 in Roswell.

Unlike the UFO festival, organizers of this event promise that
the main attraction - the 98 different species of dragonflies -
 will show up.

The co-chairman of the event, Larry Knadle, promised me a
weekend of cool nature watching, if I went.

"The UFO festival appeals to a totally different type of crowd
than we do... Ours is more of a learning experience, but we
have fun, too," he said.

Perhaps the lesson for the UFO organizers is just that: they
need to make the event more fun.

If that happened, I might return someday and I would encourage
others to come with me.

And, even better for Roswell, the aliens might come back, too.


(Wyatt Buchanan, a Hearst Fellow, is spending four months on the
news staff of The Herald.)


Copyright Plainview Daily Herald 2003


[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 25

                         'UFO' Lights Caught On Tape

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 23:19:34 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 23:19:34 -0400
Subject: 'UFO' Lights Caught On Tape




Source: BBC News

http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/england/hereford/worcs/3090649.stm

Published: 07-23-03


'UFO' Lights Caught On Tape

Strange flashing lights above the sky in Worcestershire has
caused speculation the county was visited by aliens.

A BBC cameraman spotted three bright lights in the sky over the
Malverns near the village of Hanbury on Tuesday and filmed them
with a video camera.

Some thought it could have been flares.

But cameraman Tom Hines, who works on the BBC drama series
Doctors, said he is convinced it was a UFO.

'Disappearing lights'

"I kind of saw two bright lights and thought they were stars at
first," he said.

"I pointed out where they were and started filming. They started
disappearing and reappearing and at one point there was three
bright lights.

"They kept appearing very randomly in different areas of the
sky."

John Dawson, who lives in Hanbury, also saw the lights.

"We went through all kinds of evaluations, like could they be
fireworks, could they be flares and to be honest with you we
couldn't come to any decision as to what they were."

BBC Midlands Today's science correspondent David Gregory has
examined the tape and has spoken to local UFO experts.

He said: "It could have been the Hanbury Orbs, which are a
series of lights which are known to hover above the landscape in
this area.

"But nobody knows for sure."


Copyright BBC MMIII


[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 26

                   Re: Filer's Files #30 -- 2003 - Sinkey

From: Betsy Sinkey <westoo@comcast.net>
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 22:14:31 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 06:20:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #30 -- 2003 - Sinkey


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 16:05:01 -0400
>Subject: Re: Filer's Files #30 -- 2003

>Again, 'UFOs' appear to pose a real threat to commercial
>aircraft. I have been videotaping these white discs and little
>spheres in the vicinity of JFK since 1996. I hope a loss of life
>doesn't ever happen as a result of a collision with one of these
>'unidentified' aerial objects. There have already been run-ins
>with these 'things' at the Mexico City airport. Such aerial
>collisions are not as far-fetched as some may think.


John Velez,

Can you give me a specific incident where an "apparent UFO"
collided with a commercial aircraft in Mexico City or anywhere
else?

I suppose such a mishap is possible but very unlikely.

I have witnessed a few UFOs myself and am in complete awe of
their ability to maneuver in a split second.

Yes, JFK is very busy!

I'd really be interested in the work you've been doing in the
JFK Int'l. Airport area.


Thanks,

Betsy
A native NY'er







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 26

                        P-47: Sad Day At The Archives

From: Chester <projectbluebook@EROLS.COM>
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:07:05 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 08:01:53 -0400
Subject: P-47: Sad Day At The Archives


Hello Jan and List,

In June of 2000 I submitted a FOIA for Air Intelligence files
during World War II. These records are part of Record Group
341(Air Staff), Deputy Director for the Collection and
Dissemination: Intelligence Documents Branch: Air Intelligence
Reports 1942-1954. About three months ago I was able to review
the first 92 boxes. Much to my surprise I soon realized I was
reviewing documents, I'd say 50 to 60%, that I had seen through
the years in other record groups. There were a few interesting
things, but nothing too exciting.

Today I was there and decided to call Mr. Herb Milton, the FOIA
specialist I've been working with, and asked him for an update.
He said that it just so happens they had more records ready for
me and were preparing to put labels on the boxes. He asked for
me to call back in 20 minutes or so to get a box count. No
problem, I had plenty to look at in the mean time.

I called back and asked him for the box numbers and he said,
"Are you sitting down?" I said, "No, but should I?" I leaned
against the wall for good measure anyway. Herb said that he
walked back to the records and found out that the Air Force had
been in over the last couple of days while he was off and
reclassified everything. They reclassified what I had looked at
previously and, in doing so, my FOIA for this entry was no
longer valid.

Herb was absolutely shocked at the narrow-mindedness of the Air
Force and for that matter most the other agencies for their
antiquated approach to records. It was a massive shut-down of
records. He said that 9-11 has given the agencies the needed
backing  to come in and raise havoc. An example was a bomb
mission survey report of a Japanese harbor that was written by
the Research and Analysis Branch of the Office of Strategic
Service. They were the predecessor to the CIA so... CLASSIFIED!

I asked if my FOIA could be regenerated in a couple of months
and he said no. This would be for years and the only way we
could try to get around it would be to have an actual document
number and submit a FOIA for that to be reviewed.

This is happening in all record groups. There are things being
removed from public access that have been declassified for
twenty years. It has the staff at the Archives furious and very
concerned. Look out OSS records. The Atomic Energy Records are
being pulled by the droves. Many of these records are in major
universities, so are they next?

Anyway, there are 1812 boxes of Air Intelligence Records that
won't see the light of day for who knows how long. I think there
are some real gems in those records that will fill in the gap of
the early Grudge days, but maybe not.

Oh well, I'll just have to travel down a different path.


Keith Chester







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 26

                        Re: UFO Frauds Redux - McCoy

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@charter.net>
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 20:42:06 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 08:29:13 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Frauds Redux - McCoy


>From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 11:3:6 -0400
>Subject: Re: UFO Frauds Redux

>>From: Don Ecker <decker0726@comcast.net>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:28:01 -0700
>>Subject: UFO Frauds Redux

>>Greetins All on UpDates.

>>13 months ago a thread was launched on UpDates concerning
>>credibiltiy in UFO research as conducted and relayed by
>>different names in the field. One name that surfaced was "Guy
>>Kirkwood" who is also known by another name "Mel Noel."
>>Kirkwood/Noel is well known to UFO Magazine. I conducted an
>>expose of Kirkwood/Noel's claims of being a F-86 Sabre Jet pilot
>>and commerical pilot in Vol. 7 Number 3 of UFO Magazine in May,
>>1992. I also uploaded that expose to Updates and if you are
>>interested here is a link.

>>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/1997/aug/m29-017.shtml

><snip>

>Bravo! I gald you didn't let this die. You certainly allowed
>more than enough time for a rebuttal!

<snip>


Hello all,

Let me say that Noel/Kirkwood did answer the F-86 questions that
I asked at 100% but, due to the information about the F-86 on
the web and in print, and if someone did indeed, work on the
'86, none of it would be ah, esoteric, in nature.

However, the issue of the "Suitcase Handles".

I haven't flown a DC-6/7 for the last  six years. They are not
jets, and they do not have "Suitcase Handles". The Suitcase
Handles are the emergency trim system on all the Douglas jets
and Boeing MD's. They are handles that are on the isle between
the Pilot's seats. This would be known to a mere flight
engineer.


GT McCoy







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 26

               Moncla's Disappearance Still A Mystery After 50

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 09:30:05 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 09:30:05 -0400
Subject: Moncla's Disappearance Still A Mystery After 50




Source: The Town Talk - Alexandria, Louisiana

http://www.thetowntalk.com/html/098BD4F0-84D2-41AA-9C93-B4B4BD60098B.shtml

07-20-03


Avoyelles Parish Man's Disappearance Still A Mystery After 50 Years

Andrew Griffin - Staff Reporter

MOREAUVILLE -- It was a cold, cloudy night above Lake Superior
nearly 50 years ago when 27-year old Avoyelles Parish native and
Air Force pilot 1st Lt. Felix E. "Gene" Moncla Jr. and 2nd Lt.
Robert Wilson met a mysterious fate, trying to intercept what
some believe was a UFO.

Family, friends and investigators want to know what happened to
this well-liked Moreauville man so many years ago.

One of those people is Canadian UFO investigator and computer
systems analyst Gordon Heath, of Surrey, British Columbia.

Heath, 48, grew up in Thunder Bay, Ontario, along the north
shore of Lake Superior, and said he has been interested in Great
Lakes mysteries since he was a boy. He came across the Moncla
story on the Internet after having heard about it years ago. He
spent some time in Avoyelles Parish last fall, researching old
copies of the Avoyelles Journal and interviewing friends and
family of Moncla.

While researching in Avoyelles Parish, Heath found that Moncla
had been based at Truax Field in Madison, Wis.

Moncla, with 1,000 hours of flight time, had been temporarily
transferred to Kinross Air Force Base in Michigan's Upper
Peninsula, shortly before he disappeared.

On the night of Nov. 23, 1953, Moncla and Wilson were instructed
to fly their Northrup F-89C jet aircraft to identify a large
unidentified craft flying over restricted airspace at the Soo
Locks along the American-Canadian border. The duo, flying at
approximately 500 mph, descended rapidly from 30,000 feet to
7,000 feet in order to seek out the unusual object. They were
traveling at a slightly slower speed than normal, said Heath.

This incident occurred when the Cold War was beginning to heat
up, so American jets often were ordered to investigate unknown
craft on the assumption that enemy pilots could fly them. And
just a year earlier, a flying saucer flap had gripped the United
States, resulting in unknown objects flying over restricted
airspace in Washington, D.C.

As Moncla's jet approached the craft, Heath said a radar
operator at Houghton, Mich., noted that it was not long before
the two blips on the radarscope had merged. Suddenly, Moncla and
Wilson's jet had disappeared and the "bogey" (as UFO's and other
unknown craft are called in Air Force parlance) continued on a
northward track over Canada and rapidly vanished off the radar
screen.

A search team was immediately dispatched over Lake Superior,
west-northwest of Michipicoten Island. Rescue craft scoured the
American and Canadian coasts, but no remains of the jet or the
bodies of the two pilots ever were found.

"Visibility was a variable that night," Heath said. "There had
been plenty of clouds and light snow conditions reported."

However, all researchers agree that conditions were not
inclement enough to imperil Moncla's top-notch jet.

At first, the Air Force said the F-89 and the bogey did merge on
the radar scope and the Associated Press ran a story with that
information. But then the Air Force backtracked and gave
different stories about what happened that night, even saying
that the object they had been chasing was a Canadian jet.

In fact, Air Force investigators would later report that Moncla
may have experienced vertigo and crashed into the lake. The Air
Force said Moncla was known to experience vertigo from time to
time.

If Moncla was known to experience vertigo, Heath asked, why
would the Air Force have him on active duty flying critical
missions?

And the Royal Canadian Air Force disputed the Air Force theory
that the object Moncla chased was an RCAF jet aircraft flying a
night mission from Winnipeg, Manitoba, to Sudbury, Ontario,
Heath said.

Heath said the vertigo theory is weak since it was very likely
Moncla was looking at instruments rather than visuals at the
time.

Heath said a researcher in Royal Oak, Mich., John Tenney, found
out through his own research that an Air Force communications
officer claimed to have heard Moncla's Cajun drawl over the
radio long after it had been reported that he had vanished.
Heath said Air Force investigators discounted this because they
were of the mind that the aircraft disappeared and crashed and
the idea that Moncla was still flying around after he crashed
into the lake didn't fit their idea of what happened.

Tenney could not be reached for comment for this article.

Heath compiled an interesting account of the Moncla mystery in
the winter 2003 of the UFOBC Quarterly magazine.

Following the "accident," it would be a month before Moncla and
Wilson were listed as officially dead by the U.S. Air Force. And
surprisingly, the Air Force did not hold a memorial for the two
crewmen as was customary for members who died in the line of
duty.

Moncla's widow did, however, receive an American flag from the
Air Force, Heath said. Heath wants to know why the Air Force did
not conduct a memorial.

"Was it because they had reason to suspect that the two crewmen
might still be alive?" Heath asked.

Fifteen years after the mysterious incident, in 1968, some
prospectors near the Canadian city of Sault Ste. Marie, found
wreckage from a jet along the rocky and remote Lake Superior
shoreline. A newspaper account of the discovery mentions that
the wreckage may have been from Moncla and Wilson's lost F-89.
However, inquiries to the Canadian government and civilian
agencies by Heath about the found wreckage, have proven
fruitless. Heath said the F-89, developed in the late 1940s, had
some design flaws but that those design flaws had been corrected
before 1953 and that the jet had a very good safety record.

Coincidentally, an F-89 on a training mission from Truax Field
crashed near Madison, Wis., the same night Moncla's F-89
disappeared.

Heath said that until his disappearance, Moncla had led a
successful life. He was the son of Yvonne and Felix E. Moncla
Sr. and had grown up in Moreauville. Heath said Moncla graduated
from Moreauville (Avoyelles) High School in the 1940s and went
on to attend Southwestern Louisiana Institute in Lafayette
(ULL), where he received a bachelor's of science degree.

It was while Moncla was attending the LSU School of Medicine to
become a doctor that he applied for a commission in the Air
Force. He was called to active duty shortly after the outbreak
of the Korean War and ended up at Truax Field.

Heath said he is of the opinion that Moncla and Wilson met an
unusual fate and that they may have been spirited away by
whatever force was behind the object seen on the radarscopes
that night. Heath said some radar operators strongly believe
that the plane was "swallowed up by the UFO."

At the time of the accident, Moncla had a wife and two young
children, including his son, David Moncla, who lives in
Alexandria. He declined to be interviewed for this story.

In the Sacred Heart Catholic Cemetery in Moreauville, a memorial
was erected that reads: "(Moncla) Disappeared Nov. 23, 1953,
intercepting a UFO over Canadian border as pilot of a Northrup
F89 Jet Plane."

Heath said that the Avoyelles Commission of Tourism is planning
on building a museum, which may feature a specific display
relating to the Moncla disappearance.

Carlos Mayeux Jr., who grew up in the Moreauville area when
Moncla was living, confirmed that there is such a project in the
works. At the time, Mayeux was a teenager and recalled hearing
the terrible news.

"It was a tragedy," Mayeux said.

Felix Moncla's wife, Bobbie Moncla Nabors, later remarried an
Air Force officer in Alabama.

Buddy Moncla, 77, a cousin of the lieutenant who lives in the
Avoyelles Parish community of Moncla, said he wants to know what
happened to his cousin nearly 50 years ago. Buddy Moncla said he
and his cousin Gene grew up together. He remembers Gene as good
looking, popular and somewhat reserved.

Both attended Southwestern Louisiana Institute (ULL) in the
early 1950s.

"We used to watch him play football," Buddy Moncla said.

After Buddy Moncla married Beryl, he saw less of his cousin
because he was still single. Moncla and his wife were living in
Cape Girardeau, Mo., when he said his mother called and informed
him of Gene's disappearance.

"All we were told was that their plane went down and they never
were found," Beryl Moncla said.

It wasn't until many years later that he began to hear more
details about the case and the unusual circumstances surrounding
his cousin's disappearance.

Buddy Moncla said he is open to the idea that a UFO snatched
Gene and his co-pilot.

"I was told that the last transmission recorded was (Gene)
saying, "I'm going in for a closer look," Buddy Moncla said.
"That is the last they heard."

Buddy Moncla said that means his cousin saw something high over
Lake Superior.

"He saw something and the radar saw something. The radar made
the story more controversial because the image of Gene's plane
and the unknown object converged into one blip and then it
disappeared. What happened?" he asked. "They say he may have
passed out at the high altitude, but what about his co-pilot?"

Asked whether he believes a UFO abducted his cousin, Wilson and
the jet that night, Buddy Moncla replies in all seriousness,
"There's no questions. What else? No one can prove otherwise."

He said that UFO's are just that, unidentified flying objects.

"Whether it was an item Uncle Sam was experimenting with or
something else, we'll probably never know," he said. "It's an
interesting story."

He said he and his wife are glad there is some interest in the
story. And having met with investigator Heath during his visit
to Avoyelles Parish, Buddy Moncla said the Canadian UFO
researcher "came across as a straight shooter."

He added that he would like the U.S. Air Force to reopen the
case and offer some closure on the subject, considering all the
unanswered questions surrounding the mysterious incident.

Leoni M. Shannon, Moncla's older sister who now lives in
Loveland, Colo., said the incident deeply affected her family.

"My mother was never the same; he was her only son. He was sweet
to her. She tried to put up a brave front but you knew it was
devastating for her," Shannon said. "After that incident I was
constantly looking in the sky every night. I never saw anything.
It's a puzzle."

Shannon said the Air Force and other governmental agencies were
not helpful in providing the family with straight answers.

"We still know nothing about it," Shannon said. "I don't think
the government wants to let us know about what really happened
to him."

When asked if she believes it is possible a UFO or some other
unknown force could have been behind her brother's
disappearance, Shannon doesn't hesitate, "I think that something
like that could've happened."

Meanwhile, back in British Columbia, Heath continues to write
the Canadian and American governments searching for answers as
to what fate really befell Moncla and Wilson those many years
ago. He is confident the American government engaged in a cover
up that continues to this day.

"I have a strong inclination where this is all going," Heath
said. "That Moncla and Wilson were captured by a UFO."


[UFO UpDates thanks Gordon Heath of UFOBC for the lead]

Also See:

http://www.google.com/custom?q=Moncla&sa=Google+Search&cof=GIMP%3A%23ffffff%3BT%
3A%23ffffff%3BLW%3A137%3BALC%3A%23ffffff%3BL%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.virtuallystrange
.net%2Fimages%2Fvsnsrch1.gif%3BGFNT%3A%23ffffff%3BLC%3A%23ffffff%3BLH%3A150%3BBG
C%3A%23000000%3BAH%3Acenter%3BVLC%3A%23ffffff%3BGL%3A2%3BGALT%3A%23ffffff%3BAWFI
D%3A0c3ec42176cbf84b%3B&domains=virtuallystrange.net&sitesearch=virtuallystrange
.net







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 26

                    Re: Filer's Files #30 -- 2003 - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 22:49:12 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 10:31:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #30 -- 2003 - Hatch


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 16:05:01 -0400
>Subject: Re: Filer's Files #30 -- 2003

>>From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 15:12:41 EDT
>>Subject: Filer's Files #30 -- 2003


>>SIGHTINGS CONTINUE WITH DISC OVER NEW YORK

>Thanks to George Filer and Peter Davenport for the following:

>>NEW YORK - FOUR WITNESSES SEE DISC WITH THIRTY WINDOWS.

>>JFK AIRPORT - At 11:30 PM, four witnesses were going into the
>>Howard Beach Subway Station on June 28, 2003, when they saw a
>>saucer flying overhead. There was a saucer shaped object with
>>the usual half sphere middle part with three rows of 8 to 10
>>windows. It was emitting a gloomy white light/haze all over it
>>and a blinking sharp white light from the bottom. It was
>>hovering low in the horizon near the airport. It stayed in one
>>position about 300 meters high then moved slowly to the right
>>while lowering itself. Then it came back to its original
>>position, but much closer to the ground and got out of sight,
>>because it was lower than a building. It might have landed.
>>Other people also saw it, but did not pay attention. [!]

<snip>

>>Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC

>For many years I have been reporting discs and spheres that
>circumnavigate the same areas of the sky/corridors that
>commercial jets use when coming or going from JFK International.
>Several years ago I expressed concern over this fact. Here again
>is a report of a 'UFO' observed by multiple witnesses at close
>range right by the Howard Beach subway station. That station is
>directly alongside the parking lot followed by the north end of
>one of the busiest landing strips at JFK.

>I find it alarming that an unknown object/craft is being
>reported in this particular area. The possibility of a _major_
>collision is particularly high in just that place. The
>airplanes are _low_ (and I mean, 'throw a pebble and hit em'
>low) when they fly over the Howard Beach subway station.

>More New York city commercial airliner stuff:

>>STATEN ISLAND - Seven people swimming saw a strange object in
>>the sky. The witness states, I was in the pool with my dad and
>>my uncle when I saw a dot far away in the sky on July 13, 2003,
>>at 7:30 PM. As we got out of the pool we saw four dots that
>>stayed in the same position. By that time all seven of us began
>>to look and saw seven dots. We also saw two dots revolving
>>around each other and flashing brightly. At that time, as we
>>were looking at the dots, two commercial airliner almost
>>collided! It was very bizarre and all seven of us agreed that
>>this sighting was something from a different planet. What made
>>it even more bizarre was the amount of military aircraft that
>>followed. I've never seen so many jets in my life! There was
>>something in the air tonight and I really do believe that it was
>>a UFO. We all do. Thanks to Peter Davenport <www.nuforc.org>
>>NUFORC

>Again, 'UFOs' appear to pose a real threat to commercial
>aircraft. I have been videotaping these white discs and little
>spheres in the vicinity of JFK since 1996. I hope a loss of life
>doesn't ever happen as a result of a collision with one of these
>'unidentified' aerial objects. There have already been run-ins
>with these 'things' at the Mexico City airport. Such aerial
>collisions are not as far-fetched as some may think.

>Regards,

>John Velez
>1 mile from Howard Beach station and JFK


Hello John, all:

This is _exactly_ the sort of thing that should be reported to
NARCAP. Pilot reports are especially sought after as they are
considered expert witnesses to air hazards of all types.

The first link on my "How to Report a UFO Sighting" page:

http://www.larryhatch.net/UREPORT.html is this one:

Pilots and other airborne observers are strongly encouraged to
contact the safety oriented NARCAP organization.....

http://narcap.org

Aviators and others will not be bullied or ridiculed. Dr.
Richard Haines and others will see to that. To make a report to
NARCAP, use this link:

http://narcap.org/make%20a%20report/report.htm

For an excellent catalog of historical airborne sightings,
please see Dominique Weinstein's catalog here

http://www.project1947.com/acufoe.htm

If you know any commercial pilots especially, please pass these
links on to them.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 26

              Re: Investigator Question on Object Shape - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 23:00:43 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 10:33:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Investigator Question on Object Shape - Hatch


>From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 02:31:51 -0500
>Subject: Re: Investigator Question on Object Shape

>>From: Todd Lemire <tlemire@comcast.net>
>>Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:52:54 -0400
>>Fwd Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:08:28 -0400
>>Subject: Investigator Question on Object Shape

>>Hello Listers,

>>Has anyone in their travels come across a sighting report
>>describing an object shape similar to the alphabetic letter 'H'?

>>Todd Lemire

>I've never encountered a sighting of an object shaped like an
>"H" but I remember seeing a photo many years ago of a discoid
>craft with a symbol on it similar to the letter "H".


Hello Terry:

Possibly, you are thinking of the infamous UMMO symbol. Some
Russians latched onto that and somehow pasted that on one of
their pix, and the same sorry biz just cranked on and on.

UMMO itself was thoroughly trashed. Even a confession from the
author of this highly elaborate hoax (Pena?) was not enough to
dissuade some/many of its followers, active even now I
understand.

The H-like symbol was something like a wide capital letter H
with a third vertical bar running up the middle (if memory
serves) and very similar to a letter in the Cyrillic (Russian)
alphabet.

V-J Ballester Olmos in Spain has all the dirt on the UMMO case.
I see no relation to H-shaped craft.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 26

             Re: 'Other commitments' Kept Aliens From UFO Daze?

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 23:16:37 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 10:45:21 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Other commitments' Kept Aliens From UFO Daze?


>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 18:04:48 -0500
>Subject: Re: 'Other commitments' Kept Aliens From UFO Daze?

>>From: Eustquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:16:37 -0300
>>Subject: 'Other commitments' May Have Kept Aliens From UFO Daze

>>Source: The Sheboygan Press - Illinois

>Sheboygan is in Wisconsin, not in Illinois.

>Jerry Clark

>http://www.wisinfo.com/sheboyganpress/news/archive/local_11353418.shtml

>>July 21, 2003

>>By Nhia C. Yang
>>Sheboygan Press staff


Hello Jerry:

Amazingly, there is a Sheboygan Mine in Illinois:

Feature Type: mine
State:        Illinois
County:       Jo Daviess
42:26:39N - 09:02:308W

I doubt they publish a newspaper there, too dark to read.


Best

- Larry








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 26

                  Re: CI: Underground City Images Analysis

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 23:32:33 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 10:49:04 -0400
Subject: Re: CI: Underground City Images Analysis


>From: Diane Harrison - AUFORN <auforn@hypermax.net.au>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 08:54:33 +1000
>Subject: Re: CI: Underground City Images Analysis Un-Convincing

<snip>

>Hi Mac list

>A friend of mine went to an astronomy lecture at the Queensland
>University in Brisbane this week. QU presented some of the
>worlds top astronomers and Scientists lecturing on Science and
>Astronomy research and development.

>One of the topics they covered in detail was Mars
>and a manned
>mission to Mars.

>They said if the Australian Government and US Government gave
>priority funding for the Mars project then they could have a man
>on Mars within 5 years.

Five years would be "pushing it" perhaps, based on mission
scenarios that I'm familiar with, but we could definitely make
it to Mars in ten years. I recommend checking out the Mars
Society's site at:

http://www.marssociety.com

A manned mission to Mars is totally doable. It's not a matter of
developing the technology; it's a matter of NASA gaining a sense
of priority and purpose.

>Mac it is a shame that a project as great as this has to rely on
>government funding and... as we are all know Gov funding never
>seems to get to where its supposed to go.

I sincerely hope that the first manned Mars mission is at least
partly a private endeavor. There are ways this could be done,
one of which - proposed by Mars scientist Geoffery Landis - is a
lottery in which the winner, if physically capable, gets a free
seat aboard the first voyage to Mars. I know _I'd_ buy a ticket!

>The lecture covered the face on Mars they showed pictures of it
>a close range. My astronomer friend George said it didn't look
>like a face at all

I wonder which version was shown to him. NASA has an interesting
tendency to fall back on inferior images to help cement its
ostensibly unofficial position that the Face is merely a "hill."
I recommend checking out my Face gallery:

http://www.mactonnies.com/facephotos.html

>So Mac, are the Mars pyramids real and were they made by an
>ancient civilisation or are they too an optical illusion.

I don't know. But I have a strong suspicion that there are
extraterrestrial artifacts in the Cydonia region, as documented
on my website:

http://www.mactonnies.com/cydonia.html


Mac Tonnies






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 26

                        CI: A 'Tholus' In California?

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 00:20:13 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 10:51:25 -0400
Subject: CI: A 'Tholus' In California?


Cydonian Imperative
7-26-03

A "Tholus" in California?
by Mac Tonnies

For images and links, see:

http://www.mactonnies.com/cydonia.html (page 40)



[image]

This conical structure at Edwards Air Force Base resembles the
Tholus at Cydonia.

Edwards Air Force Base in California features a conical mound
very much like the Tholus in Cydonia, complete with groove/ramp.
While the Tholus appears to have a weathered triangular
structure at its peak, the better-preserved (and much newer)
formation at Edwards boasts a cylindrical metal tank. Details
aside, the resemblance between the Tholus and the mound at
Edwards is striking. While I'm in no way suggesting an exotic
"common origin," perhaps the Tholus in Cydonia once served a
similar purpose as its terrestrial cousin.

[image]

Image courtesy Mark Carlotto.

If artificial, the Tholus need not be "high-tech." Its overall
resemblance to England's Silbury Hill has been noted by several
researchers. It's conceivable the Tholus was built by a Bronze
Age civilization for cultural/astronomical reasons. But the
winding ramp, most evident in Mark Carlotto's shape-from-shading
rendering (above), suggests a more sophicticated, utilitarian
origin.

I've proposed that the Tholus might be an observatory from which
hypothetical Martians could take in some of the exotic
formations in the Cydonia region, such as the unexplained Cliff.
The triangular peak is situated atop a shallow, abraded platform
that, curiously enough, is aimed directly at the distant Face at
app. 45 degrees. Such correspondences imply that the Tholus'
placement is nonrandom.

Using terrestrial structures as analogies for possible Martian
ruins is a potentially hazardous practice. The variations in
scale and age are often mind-boggling, rendering superficial
likenesses useless (the Enterprise Mission's delightfully absurd
"Sumer/Iraq-Mars" connection being a case in point).
Nevertheless, a systematic survey of known artificial structures
employing "earthworks"-style engineering might help us
understand the possible function and meaning of the anomalous
morphologies at Cydonia.

(Special thanks to Zak.)

-end-







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 26

                          A New Tungunska Incident?

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:54:41 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 10:57:57 -0400
Subject: A New Tungunska Incident?


Source: AFP and El Universal Online

http://www.cronica.com.mx/nota.php?idc=76740

Date: Friday, July 25, 2003

Did a Giant Meteor Destroy 100 Square Kilometers of Siberian
Taiga?

The collision of a giant meteor in Siberia's Irkutsk region in
September 2002 destroyed some 100 square kilometers of taiga
with an explosion whose power was equal to that of a medium-
sized atom bomb, according to the head of a scientific
expedition.

The expedition--consisting of ten scientists and physicians--had
to wait unti May to locate the epicenter of the devastated area,
which is in a semi-mountainous and forested area near Bodaibo,
to the northeast of Irkutsk and Lake Baikal, according to Vadim
Tchernobrov, the expedition's leader, during a press conference.

"Trees have fallen in a way that occurs specifically in cases
involving very powerful expansive waves over a surface of some
one hundred square kilometers," he explained.

"To give you an idea, the explosion of the meteorite, which
desintegrated before it hit the surface and whose fragments have
only caused some 20 craters measuring up to twenty emters
across, has a power equal to that of a medium-sized nuclear
warhead."

During the press conference, scientists displayed images
recorded during the expedition, which show trees cut in half and
in some cases burned, since very high temperatures were recorded
during the explosion.


============================================
Translation (C) 2003 Scott Corrales Institute of Hispanic Ufology
Special thanks to Gloria Coluchi

Visit the INEXPLICATA website at:

www.inexplicata.us






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 26

                Re: Aliens More Like Arnie Than ET - Friedman

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com>
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 08:50:09 -0300
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 11:02:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Aliens More Like Arnie Than ET - Friedman


From: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
To: <- UFO UpDates List ->
Date: 24-Jul-03 23:31
Subject: Aliens More Like Arnie Than ET


>Source: The Australian

>http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,6801101%255E13762,00.html

>July 24, 2003

>Aliens More Like Arnie Than ET
>By Leigh Dayton, Science writer

>If extraterrestrials exist they look more like the steely
>Terminator than cuddly ET, say scientists on a cosmic quest for
>smart aliens.

>"The rise of the machines? There's a lot of Hollywood in there,
>a lot of crashing and smashing about, but it's possible,"
>astronomer and science historian Steve Dick said of the
>Terminator movies.

>According to his new view of ET, intelligent aliens long ago
>dispensed with weak flesh-and-blood bodies in favour of steel-
>hard sinews and silicon brains.

>Dr Dick, of the US Naval Observatory in Washington, based his
>argument on the "intelligence principle" - when a species can
>improve its intelligence it will do so.

>"If you don't get smarter you get left behind," Dr Dick said
>yesterday at the International Union of Astronomy conference,
>meeting in Sydney.

<snip>

For years I have been pointing out that the SETI cultists
frequently sound off in areas about which they know nothing.
These include the feasibility of interstellar travel, the
possibilility of new communications systems, the existence of
flying saucers, and of course the behavior, motivation and
development of alien beings.Just look at the data they don't
reference.

Where would astronomers rank on a list of professionals
competent to deal with behavior and motivation questions? I
think near the bottom of the list when it comes to Earthlings,
no less aliens. How about psychiatrists, psychologists, social
workers, doctors, nurses, even lawyers?

But astronomers?

Substitute egos for data and they, along with some of the
science fiction writers, really take the cake.

I am certainly looking forward to the Final Transatlantic Cruise
of the Queen Elizabeth 2 starting from Southampton on December
15 and arriving in New York 6 days later. Seth Shostak will give
some lectures, I will give 3, and Graham Birdsall will also
speak.

The theme of the cruise is Science Fiction and Science. The
silly comments above illustrate some of the fiction.

As Jerry Clark used to quote Curt Fuller of Fate saying "not a
fact in a carload" or some such.


Stan Friedman

www.v-j-enterprises.com/sfpage.html







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 26

                Re: P-47: Sad Day At The Archives - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 08:52:15 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 11:07:19 -0400
Subject: Re: P-47: Sad Day At The Archives - Maccabee


>From: Chester <projectbluebook@EROLS.COM>
>To:   PROJECT-1947@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
>Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:07:05 -0400
>Subject: Sad Day At The Archives


>Hello Jan and List,

<snip>

>Herb was absolutely shocked at the narrow-mindedness of the Air
>Force and for that matter most the other agencies for their
>antiquated approach to records. It was a massive shut-down of
>records. He said that 9-11 has given the agencies the needed
>backing  to come in and raise havoc. An example was a bomb
>mission survey report of a Japanese harbor that was written by
>the Research and Analysis Branch of the Office of Strategic
>Service. They were the predecessor to the CIA so... CLASSIFIED!

>I asked if my FOIA could be regenerated in a couple of months
>and he said no. This would be for years and the only way we
>could try to get around it would be to have an actual document
>number and submit a FOIA for that to be reviewed.

>This is happening in all record groups. There are things being
>removed from public access that have been declassified for
>twenty years. It has the staff at the Archives furious and very
>concerned. Look out OSS records. The Atomic Energy Records are
>being pulled by the droves. Many of these records are in major
>universities, so are they next?

>Anyway, there are 1812 boxes of Air Intelligence Records that
>won't see the light of day for who knows how long. I think there
>are some real gems in those records that will fill in the gap of
>the early Grudge days, but maybe not.

>Oh well, I'll just have to travel down a different path.


May have to appeal directly to the Air Force... via your local
Congressman or Senator.







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 26

                       Re: UFO Frauds Redux - Hamilton

From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 06:11:40 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 11:10:16 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Frauds Redux - Hamilton


>From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@charter.net>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 20:42:06 -0700
>Subject: Re: UFO Frauds Redux

>>From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 11:3:6 -0400
>>Subject: Re: UFO Frauds Redux

>>>From: Don Ecker <decker0726@comcast.net>
>>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:28:01 -0700
>>>Subject: UFO Frauds Redux

>>>Greetins All on UpDates.

>>>13 months ago a thread was launched on UpDates concerning
>>>credibiltiy in UFO research as conducted and relayed by
>>>different names in the field. One name that surfaced was "Guy
>>>Kirkwood" who is also known by another name "Mel Noel."
>>>Kirkwood/Noel is well known to UFO Magazine. I conducted an
>>>expose of Kirkwood/Noel's claims of being a F-86 Sabre Jet pilot
>>>and commerical pilot in Vol. 7 Number 3 of UFO Magazine in May,
>>>1992. I also uploaded that expose to Updates and if you are
>>>interested here is a link.

>>>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/1997/aug/m29-017.shtml

>><snip>

>>Bravo! I gald you didn't let this die. You certainly allowed
>>more than enough time for a rebuttal!

><snip>

>Let me say that Noel/Kirkwood did answer the F-86 questions that
>I asked at 100% but, due to the information about the F-86 on
>the web and in print, and if someone did indeed, work on the
>'86, none of it would be ah, esoteric, in nature.

I am just as skeptical as anyone on this List and a stickler for
facts so I will make this one reply so as not to beat a dead
horse. If Guy obtained the data on the F-86, then it wasn't from
the web as he doesn't use a computer and doesn't use email. If
from published works, and you knew he could find answers there,
then why use this as a test? In that case, you don't know for
sure that I didn't look up the answers myself. You must have
trusted me.

Guy did dig up his old documents and photos. One photo shows a
much younger Guy in full flight gear sitting in the cockpit of
an F-86, but he must have faked that too, a long time ago. As we
know that almost anything can be faked given enough slight-of-
hand, that leaves us with very little solid evidence as it is.

As Guy would not copy these documents and photos upon my request
so that I could send them to Stan Friedman, I told him that I
could no longer pursue his case and present it to the research
community and there it stands. Guy has never helped his own case
anyway as he gets involved with dubious patriot groups.

After he answered your questions and, obviously, got the answer
on suitcase handles marked wrong, I dropped it. There is nothing
more to re-examine on this case and those who want to believe he
is just a con are welcome to it as I will not be the one to
persuade them otherwise. There are more worthwhile objectives to
pursue.


-Bill Hamilton







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 26

              Re: Investigator Question on Object Shape - Groff

From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 09:52:38 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 11:12:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Investigator Question on Object Shape - Groff


>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 23:00:43 -0700
>Subject: Re: Investigator Question on Object Shape

>>From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 02:31:51 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Investigator Question on Object Shape

>>>From: Todd Lemire <tlemire@comcast.net>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:52:54 -0400
>>>Subject: Investigator Question on Object Shape

>>>Has anyone in their travels come across a sighting report
>>>describing an object shape similar to the alphabetic letter 'H'?

>>I've never encountered a sighting of an object shaped like an
>>"H" but I remember seeing a photo many years ago of a discoid
>>craft with a symbol on it similar to the letter "H".

>Possibly, you are thinking of the infamous UMMO symbol. Some
>Russians latched onto that and somehow pasted that on one of
>their pix, and the same sorry biz just cranked on and on.

>UMMO itself was thoroughly trashed. Even a confession from the
>author of this highly elaborate hoax (Pena?) was not enough to
>dissuade some/many of its followers, active even now I
>understand.

Thanks Larry, I thought that one had been debunked although I
didn't have the particulars. That was the only "H" reference
that came to mind.


Terry







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 26

                    NY Times: A Bad Trip Down Memory Lane

From: Will Bueche <willbueche@hotmail.com>
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 11:36:56 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 12:54:01 -0400
Subject: NY Times: A Bad Trip Down Memory Lane

Source: The New York Times Magazine

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/27/magazine/27CLANCY.html

07-27-03


A Bad Trip Down Memory Lane
By Bruce Grierson

It is not considered good judgment to wade into the issue of
recovered memories without skin as thick as permafrost and
caller ID on the phone. Rare is the academic field in which
colleagues on opposite sides of a debate - people with
international reputations - dismiss the very foundations of one
another's work, sometimes not so privately, with common barnyard
epithets; in which two of the most prominent reference books are
almost Jesuitically contradictory; in which more than a decade
of fairly sound research has done little to settle a debate that
has raged ever since Freud popularized the term "repression."

Yet this is just where Susan Clancy found herself eight years
ago when she joined the psychology department at Harvard
University as a graduate student. At one end of the field of
"trauma memory" were people like her new professors and future
co-authors, the clinical psychologist Richard McNally and the
cognitive psychologist Daniel Schacter, chairman of the Harvard
psychology department and one of the world's leading experts on
memory function. At the other end were Harvard-affiliated
clinicians, including Judith Herman, Bessel van der Kolk and
Daniel Brown, whose scholarly writing on the psychological
effects of trauma remains highly influential.

What the two sides disagree on is whether painful memories of
traumatic events can actually be repressed - completely
forgotten - and then "recovered" years later in therapy. Many
clinicians say yes: it is how we instinctively protect ourselves
from childhood recollections that would otherwise be too dire to
bear. Most cognitive psychologists say no: real trauma is almost
never forgotten; full-blown, traumatic memories dredged up
decades later through hypnosis are almost invariably false.

Clancy, now 33, wasn't fully alive to the schismatic politics
back then. She simply saw a puzzling, inviting gap in the data.
"You had two groups in opposite camps that were battling each
other out" over the validity of recovered memories, Clancy says.
"But nobody was doing research on the group that was at the
center of the controversy - the people who were reporting
recovered memories. Memory function in that group had never been
examined in the laboratory."

So she decided to devote herself to that task, which would end
up occupying her pretty much full time for the next seven years.
Interview subjects, mostly women but some men, all with
recovered memories of child sexual abuse, would come to her
office in William James Hall - a 15-floor concrete cracker stack
among the brick heritage buildings of Harvard. They would settle
in and, shifting their gaze from Clancy's blue eyes to the John
Hancock Tower in the distance, tell her their stories as the
tape in her recorder unspooled.

The stories were troubling. Often she found herself, somewhat
inappropriately, tearing up. Clancy's upbringing - feminist,
lapsed Catholic - had prepared her to believe what she was
hearing. But as her interviews went on, she came to the
conclusion that many of the most elaborate, most terrifying
tales she was hearing had an air of confabulation about them.
"There was a moment where I said, 'Oh, my God, I'm not sure this
really happened,"' she recalls.

Though the term "false memory" is slippery and inadequate, there
is now little doubt that the phenomenon exists. A rash of
satanic ritual abuse claims in the 1980's and 90's - claims that
were never substantiated but destroyed families and ruined
reputations - demonstrated fairly conclusively that both adults
and children sometimes report things they think happened that
didn't.

Still, genuine memories of real sexual abuse are often
prosecutors' only tools to combat what remains a significant
social problem. To distinguish, in some definitive way, then,
true memories from false memories is a trick with enormous
personal and political and public-policy implications.

Clancy guessed that there was a category of people who are prone
to create false memories and who might demonstrate this tendency
when given a standard memory test. Her strategy was to present a
list of semantically related words, like "candy," "sour" and
"sugar," to those who purported to have recovered memories. Then
she would test their recall of those words. On the test, she
would throw in words that weren't on the list but were like the
words on the list - "sweet," for example. Her hypothesis was
that these people would be especially inclined to "remember"
seeing the word "sweet" - in effect creating a recollection out
of a contextual inference, a fact from a feeling. In the end,
the data strongly supported her thesis. She published her
findings in 2000 in the scientific journal Psychological
Science.

But her work was criticized by some, in large part because it
contained a hidden snare: even if Clancy's "false memory"
recoverers were prone to fictionalizing memories of abuse, that
didn't necessarily mean that their specific memories of abuse
were made up; there was no way to know whether these people were
actually abused. Clancy had anticipated this cavil while still
in the design stage of the study, and so she rounded up a second
control group - people who had incontrovertibly been abused and
had always remembered that abuse, in contrast to the "recovered
memory" group. When people in this group took the word-recall
test, they tended to "remember" words that weren't on the list
with no greater frequency than the average person, and she was
sure she had cracked the nut.

The critics, though, had another objection. What if the traumas
that the recovered-memory group had experienced were horrific
enough not only to repress the memory but also to cause
cognitive impairment that showed up as memory distortion in the
lab?

Meanwhile, hate mail started pouring in, in quantities Clancy
would eventually measure "by the ton." The reaction was not
altogether surprising. The moral dimension of research on child
sexual abuse makes it uniquely explosive in psychology, and
almost from Day 1 Clancy had, beyond the safe zone of her own
department, taken heavy flak for even suggesting that memories
of abuse can be faulty. The simple act of conducting research
into the matter struck some as an enterprise "designed to cheer
on child molesters," as one anonymous letter writer wrote, "and
ridicules the suffering sustained by children who are abused as
well as therapists who are knowledgeable about the effects of
trauma on children's minds and bodies." Clancy was a "bad
person," according to another letter writer, to question such
reports. Yet another suggested that she was probably an abuser
herself.

In 2000, when Clancy was invited to give a lecture at Cambridge
Hospital, the chairman of the hospital at the time told her that
several members of its psychiatric department had protested her
appearance. Her colleagues told her that she had probably ruled
herself out of future academic positions in any psychology
department, Harvard pedigree or no.

Clancy says she thought she could fix the problem by fixing her
word-recall test. She was close, she reckoned, but she needed to
find a different, methodologically cleaner, subject group than
victims of child sexual abuse - people whose memories virtually
everyone could agree were false. But whom? She considered
options: people who remembered their own deaths? People who
recalled past lives? No, there was just enough doubt in those
instances to taint the results. She would have to go further
afield.


"Have you been contacted or abducted by space aliens?" read the
ad that ran in a number of Boston-area newspapers. "You may be
eligible to participate in a Harvard memory research study."
Clancy's new plan - and it seemed unimpeachable - was to round
up folks who thought they had been beamed aboard spaceships, or
who actually recalled the experience, and give them the same
memory test she had given the others. If they, too, got high
scores, it would establish that there are indeed people who are
prone to false memories - which might eventually help scientists
better understand how false memories are created. Finally, she
figured, she had the makings of a sound study. Out she went into
the community to recruit.

For two years, Clancy advertised in bookstores, visited Internet
chat rooms and haunted U.F.O. conferences, handing out fliers
for her memory study. At one point, in pursuit of appropriate
subjects, she spent three days at a meeting of a group of
supposed alien abductees at an old seaside Victorian inn in
Newport, R.I. She sat in the hot tub with them as they
cheerfully told her their stories - an astonishingly consistent
set of narratives involving bright light through bedroom
windows, inexplicable time blackouts, encounters with bobble-
 headed small gray people with large black eyes and, often,
invasive sexual medical experimentation. Among themselves, the
experiencers talked business. There was a consensus about how
stupid and misguided scientists were not to believe their
accounts. Someone related a skeptic's theory that the explosion
of U.F.O. sightings in New Jersey the previous year was caused
by migrating birds, and the crowd exploded into guffaws. Clancy
smiled through gritted teeth.

Finally, she scraped together 11 willing subjects, ran them and
a control group through a battery of tests and collated the
data, which demonstrated, in her view, that "individuals who are
more prone to develop false memories in the lab are also more
likely to develop false memories of experiences that were only
suggested or imagined." She submitted her study to the
notoriously stringent Journal of Abnormal Psychology. It sped
through the review process and, to her great relief, was
published. Her problems looked to be solved.

"I thought, Thank God, man," she recalls. "With alien abductees,
I'm never going to have to deal with the criticism that it might
have actually happened."



In a mustard-colored suit - the only suit he owns - John Mack
stands on the stage of the theater inside Boston's Museum of
Fine Arts with a light shining on his face, like a museum
exhibit of the moon. The documentary film "Touched," by Laurel
Chiten, a Boston filmmaker, has just received its world
premiere, and Chiten and Mack, her main subject, are up there to
field questions. Through interviews, the film conveys what it's
like to be coerced into sexual congress with alien beings -
and, in at least one case, to become an unwitting participant,
apparently, in a kind of intergalactic hybrid breeding program.

Mack, a quiet and erudite man, is a veteran of the Harvard
medical faculty whose blue-chip career took something of a
William Jamesian turn toward the mystical in the 70's. In 1994,
he published the book "Abduction," which immediately piqued
interest because Mack seemed to accept the abduction phenomenon
as literal fact. The book was a huge best seller. Mack's Harvard
imprimatur jacked the credibility of abduction accounts into
another orbit. Chris Carter, creator of "The X-Files," used
Mack's work to help sell his show to Fox.

Clancy's study was, of course, a clear rebuke of the abductee
experience - and it was met with derision at Mack's nonprofit
organization, the Center for Psychology and Social Change.
Clancy had drawn a number of her test subjects from the
institute's ranks, and they may have felt poleaxed by the
disarmingly genial researcher who seemed to listen so
nonjudgmentally to their tales. The campaign to discredit Clancy
began in earnest.

"Obviously there's a mammoth leap of faith involved in
generalizing from a mistake on a word list to the assumption
that whole memories for extended, anomalous events can be
created more or less arbitrarily," wrote a doctoral student
named Catherine Reason on an Internet discussion group. Just who
was Susan Clancy, asked another, to challenge the work of people
whose theories of memory and trauma were cited by the United
Nations when discussing whether recovered memories of torture
were admissible as testimony in an international war-crimes
tribunal? Some simply viewed Clancy's 11 "abductees" as too
small a sample size.

Mack and Clancy seem to have nothing against each other
personally, though the gulf in their worldviews appears
unbridgeable. Clancy describes Mack as "good-hearted," an "old-
school gentleman" who was insufficiently aware of the memory-
distorting effects of the hypnosis he used over the years to
expand upon abduction memories in many of his more than 200
patients. Mack is sanguine about the Clancy study, but blunt. "I
smell a rat," he says in his light-filled Cambridge home a short
walk from Harvard Yard. "Not that Susan's the rat, but in that a
small word-association test gets to be used, by whomever, to
say, 'This is simply memory distortion."'

The abductees, in some ways, posed a more bewildering challenge
to Clancy than her previous memory-recoverers. "Very few of them
endorsed the repression hypothesis," she says. They don't
believe their conscious minds repressed the memories of
abduction trauma out of self-protection. Rather, she says,
"you'd get extraterrestrial interpretations." The reason they
had no memories of those terrifying events until years or
decades later, the abductees usually say, is that the aliens,
for everybody's protection, erased or otherwise controlled them.

When I met with her in Cambridge, Clancy still seemed genuinely
surprised, almost awed, at the breadth of controversy her work
has caused. "Every academic talk I give," she told me as we made
our way to lunch near Harvard Square, "someone raises their hand
and says, 'Who the hell are you to say these stories aren't
true?"'

Not long ago, Clancy appeared as a guest on a nationally
syndicated radio show that takes a broad-minded view of the
paranormal. For nearly 20 minutes, she was called on that very
question. The host pressed: "Why do you think that the only life
forms are on earth?" Clancy said she could feel her blood
pressure rising.

"I don't necessarily believe that we're the only life form out
there," she said. "I can entertain the possibility that there
are other life forms out there without accepting your story that
a spaceship picked you up!"

Many scientists have offered a simple explanation for the
phenomenon: abduction experiences, they maintain, are all about
the mind pumping for meaning after a bout of sleep paralysis --
 a scary but fairly common experience in which the part of the
brain that inhibits motor messages during REM sleep fails to
disengage as the sleeper wakes up. The sensation is of being
pinned to the bed, often accompanied by hallucinations of some
spectral entity at the bedside.

Some three million Americans believe they have had some kind of
encounter with space aliens. If everyone who experienced sleep
paralysis came to that conclusion, the number would be a hundred
or so times as high. What you have in an abductee, Clancy
suspects, is someone who is predisposed to believe. "Here's
someone who reads science fiction. They watch 'The X-Files.'
Then one night they have a sleep-paralysis experience. It's
weird and it's scary, and it becomes one of a multitude of
events that create that wonder."

As the subject tries to remember what happened, "source" errors
creep in. "You think you're recovering your own memory, when in
fact it's something you pulled out of a movie," Clancy said.
"Memory's tendency to be reconstructive, combined with the
desire to believe, combined with a culturally available script,
leads to a false memory. The content of that memory is dictated
by the society you live in." The warnings that experiencers
report receiving from aliens, the Australian sociologist Robert
Bartholomew has pointed out, have changed over time - from
nuclear destruction during the cold war to, more recently,
ecological doom. These are simply stories, he says, that give
shape to our fears.


Ten years from now, Susan Clancy may remember 2003 as a year of
agreeable spadework in the trenches of academic inquiry. But if
she does, it will be a false memory. The truth is that Clancy's
research, which she hoped might mend fences - at least partly
vindicating both sides' positions - has managed to tick off just
about everyone: sexual-abuse survivors, therapists,
experiencers, even a creationist or two.

Daniel Brown, the trauma therapist, is convinced that there's a
"political agenda" to Clancy's abduction study. As he told one
reporter, "It's all about spin." Her own brother - a corporate
lawyer for a top New York firm - has ripped into her about the
abduction study for assuming outright that none of the
abductions occurred.

From his vantage point a few dozen feet away in the Harvard
psych department, Richard McNally has watched Clancy, his former
grad student, face trial after trial. "She's very thick-
 skinned, certainly for someone at her stage of her career,"
McNally told me. But inside, it was getting to her.

When we first spoke, about six months ago, Clancy said she
believed she could weather the storm. "I don't think so
anymore," she said recently. "When I was on the phone with
lawyers two weeks ago and had to be concerned that I was going
to get brought up on ethics charges, it really caused me to
rethink what I'm doing here."

She seemed immensely relieved, therefore, to be getting out.
Clancy has accepted a visiting professorship at the Harvard-
affiliated Central American Business Administration Institute
in Managua, Nicaragua, and will leave later this summer. There
she will continue to study how trauma affects people, but the
trauma will be verifiable life-threatening events: diseases,
hurricanes, land mines.

Oh. And she will do a little cross-cultural research on...
abductees. It turns out, just as John Mack has said for years,
that this is a truly universal phenomenon. "Supposedly it's
extremely common through Central America," Clancy said.

When she returns, she will shop around her resume. She hopes
people will still remember her.



Bruce Grierson last wrote for the magazine about nutrigenomics.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 27

               Re: Scientists Say Crop Circles Were No Prank -

From: Paul Anderson <psa@cccrn.ca>
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 10:34:07 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 11:00:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Scientists Say Crop Circles Were No Prank -


>From: Joachim Koch <shar@kochkyborg.de>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>)
>Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:29:01 +0100
>Subject: Re: Scientists Say Crop Circles Were No Prank

>Hi Michel,

>Being a witness of this Phenomenon since 1991 on the spot
>in England I can agree with what you wrote above.

>As far as I know there exists no report of a European
>researcher who claimed to have seen a 'craft' leaving a
>crop circle behind. The 'Oliver Castle Video' hoax is
>researched and exposed as such.

>The Crop Circle Phenomenon up to the early 1990s created
>genuine formations which is now completely taken over by
>human teams. The Crop Circle Phenomenon of all times
>inbetween appeared as Balls of Light (See L.M.Howe's
>book)and created unhoaxable energy patterns inside and
>around fields. The Crop Circle Phenomenon of nowadays is
>only to be found by dowsing (which is a very powerful and
>cosmic and spritual and mental human activity)in certain
>activated fields.

>Neither a 'craft'nor a meteorite has ever reportedly
>created a crop circle in Europe.

>Sorry to say, but if what I saw is the Californian 'crop
>circle' which everybody and even scientists do speak of -
>this thing is so ugly (from the picture - I wasn't
>there)that it wouldn't pass established standards of crop
>circle research.

>And if a certain ET agenda (same valid for human
>agenda)has tried to jump on the band waggon in California-
>then they should practise a bit. :-))


Hi Joachim,

I agree that many of the current formations in the UK are
probably of human origin now, although I'm not convinced all
are. However, one needs to view the phenomenon in context as a
whole. Many of the formations here in Canada and in other
countries as well, still show evidence of being anomalous, even
if most of those are simpler in design (not all necessarily, but
the majority I'd say). Basically, the phenomenon continues, it
hasn't completely stopped since the early 1990s, but we need to
look at it in a global context.

I think many of these findings have been overlooked to an extent
by the crop circle community because many people are interested
only in the largest and most complex formations, ie. in England
primarily. While most of the Canadian ones here are still very
modest (even boring to some) in comparison, studies by our teams
and BLT, etc. have provided many interesting anomalies still to
be explained, including the well-known ruptured stalk nodes,
stretched nodes (up to 300% normal length in one case), twisted
seed heads, altered (heated) soil, camera and videocamera
malfunctions and anomalies, synchronistic dreams / premonitions
(sometimes with specific details), and so on. There are many
questions still to be answered. Many of my own experiences
suggest there is something going on besides just man-made
formations / hoaxes (and we have had our share of those here
also I can confirm). Also, many of the ones being found here
today are consistent in form, size, time of year, locations,
etc. as reports going back several decades in this country (at
least to 1925 that we know of so far). There is a consistency, a
repeating pattern overall, which to me is suggestive of a real,
unexplained phenomenon which may have been occurring for
decades, centuries or even longer, with some modifications /
changes in more recent years in some cases for whatever reasons
(apart from the added human element I mean).

Sometimes also formations which may not look as "pleasing"
appearance-wise have produced some of these anomalies or good
physical evidence, this coming from experience in the Canadian
prairie fields. Authenticity or not of a formation can't be
judged solely on it's outward appearance. The recent case in
Wisconsin, USA  from July 4 a case in point - the three circles,
two with standing sections in them (a crescent in one) are a bit
rough looking perhaps, but if the farmer (an older fellow who I
just heard interviewed) is telling the truth, that he witnessed
them form in about 12 seconds during a thunderstorm as "black
holes" opeing in the field, then that is serious evidence which
deserves attention and investigation. Btw, I had a dream very
similar to that on July 1... a kind of synchronistic experience
I've had on several occassions now. The Wisconsin case wasn't
even publicized until last week. Also a similar case from Grand
River, Prince Edward Island last summer (also on July 4 as it
happens), where rough circles were witnessed forming as dark-
coloured "funnels" moved across the fields.


Best,

Paul Anderson

http://www.cccrn.ca





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 27

             Conference To Uncover Truth Of 'Secret Government'

From: Eustquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 16:52:02 -0300
Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 11:04:59 -0400
Subject: Conference To Uncover Truth Of 'Secret Government'


Source: ABC News - Australia

http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2003/s910815.htm

AM - Saturday, 26 July , 2003 08:27:00
Reporter: David Weber

HAMISH ROBERTSON: Flying saucers, UFOs, extra-terrestrial life,
well, most people think it's all fiction.

But for some it's all too real, and an international conference
is being held in Perth this weekend to discuss the "hidden
truths," information that a so-called secret government is
withholding from the public.

David Weber reports.

David Weber: Conference Organiser, Mary Rodwell, has counselled
800 people in Perth who say they've been contacted by non-
humans.

Ms Rodwell says most of these experiences seem to have occurred
when the individual is relaxed, like when they're about to go to
sleep.

Mary Rodwell: I mean beings from other planets, but I also say
that we think some of the beings may be what's known as inter-
dimensional as well. So, I mean it's a very hard one to explain
but it's like not all of them come from this dimension.

David Weber: What kinds of experiences do people have with to
these beings?

Mary Rodwell: The classic X-Files is the bright lights in the
room, not being able to move, feeling a presence or presences
around you, obviously feeling frightened and frozen in their
beds, they feel like they're paralysed, often there's a sense of
a buzzing sound around them, and sometimes they have a feeling
of going through walls or, and having certain procedures done on
them on the craft.

David Weber: Given that a lot of these experiences have happened
in relaxed states; is it possible that these are manifestations
of the mind?

Mary Rodwell: One could say that if they weren't left with marks
on their body that they can't explain, including a shaved area
on one gentlemen's leg, for example. And these marks actually
fluoresce in black ultraviolet light, and they're scoop marks,
they're rashes, they are like little dots that are very painful,
and these always happen after these experiences.

David Weber: Do you believe all of the people that you've
counselled have been contacted by non-humans?

Mary Rodwell: I would believe 99 per cent certainly. There is
the odd view that I think actually need medical help.

David Weber: Ms Rodwell says people generally go to the doctor
first. But they usually believe the person has bumped into a
piece of furniture or run into something.

The conference will focus on claims that non-humans have put
objects inside people, such as metallic things that have their
own nerve system. However, none of this material will be on show
for physical examination because it's apparently in laboratories
in the US.

David Weber: Ms Rodwell says people should be aware that a
secret government is trying to keep certain information from
getting into the public arena.

Mary Rodwell: The whole idea of this conference is to make this
information available to the public.

David Weber: Is the media part of this conspiracy?

Mary Rodwell: I dont think the media per se is, I think some of
the corporations that run the media have obviously got maybe a
different agenda, and if they want something squashed, believe
me, they'll squash it.

Hamish Robertson: That report compiled by, I think, a very
sceptical David Weber.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 27

              Re: Chupacabras Prints To Be Studied By GEO Group

From: Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <v.s.o@prodigy.net>
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 16:33:13 -0300
Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 11:08:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Chupacabras Prints To Be Studied By GEO Group


>From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:07:58 -0400
>Subject: Chupacabras Prints To Be Studied By GEO Group


>SOURCE: Diario "El Centro" (Talca, Chile)
>DATE: July 21, 2003

>CHUPACABRAS PRINTS TO BE STUDIED BY GEO GROUP

>CURICO. The prestigious GEO Group, devoted to the study of UFO
>phenomena, is studing the prints left by the alleged
>"Chupacabras" which apparently attacked thirty chickens during
>early morning hours last Tuesday in La Palmilla, Rauco commune.

><snip>

>"We believe it's an extraterrestrial pet, a programmed being, a
>hybrid or cloned species designed to extract bodily fluids or
>liquids from the birds in order to feed itself, or with another
>purpose altogether. It is associated to the UFO phenomenon and
>is very intelligent. For this reason it will not be captured,"
>he added.


Take Note:

TERRA.cl
SANTIAGO (CHILE). July 21.

In conversation with Alberto Urquiza, an investigator from GEO
and an expert dedicated to study the attacks attributed to the
Chupacabras, assured that, must of the latest incidents have
been erroneously related to the mystical animal. He is certainty
that some incidents reported on the Metropolitan Region are
well-known animal work. According to Urquiza, this fact slow
down the investigation: "There are attacks erroneously
attributed to the Chupacabras, in which it is the presence of
dogs and felines. These incidents confuse the investigation,
distracting our resources and time". That could be the case of
two attacks on July 1, in the communes of Buin and Pudahuel.
Attacks that ended the live of almost 80 hens. "Although, at the
beginning, we thought this cases were the product of the
Chupacabras (understand that the Chupacabras is an unknown
species), thank to the cooperation of veterinarians and other
specialists, we managed to established that in Buin the massacre
was done by a feline that escaped from a nearby zoo. In the
Pudahuel's case, it was clearly the participation of street
dogs". explained Urquiza.

"For the investigator, it is fundamental to analyze each case
separately. the possibility always exists that the attacks are
the result of the action of a well known animals. This work, due
to the huge numbers of reported incidents and the limited
resources, has been transformed into a more and more complex
task.

Dr. Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo
Miami UFO Center







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 27

              Re: Chupacabras Prints To Be Studied By GEO Group

From: Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <v.s.o@prodigy.net>
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 16:33:13 -0300
Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 11:41:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Chupacabras Prints To Be Studied By GEO Group


>From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 14:07:58 -0400
>Subject: Chupacabras Prints To Be Studied By GEO Group


>SOURCE: Diario "El Centro" (Talca, Chile)
>DATE: July 21, 2003

>CHUPACABRAS PRINTS TO BE STUDIED BY GEO GROUP

>CURICO. The prestigious GEO Group, devoted to the study of UFO
>phenomena, is studing the prints left by the alleged
>"Chupacabras" which apparently attacked thirty chickens during
>early morning hours last Tuesday in La Palmilla, Rauco commune.

><snip>

>"We believe it's an extraterrestrial pet, a programmed being, a
>hybrid or cloned species designed to extract bodily fluids or
>liquids from the birds in order to feed itself, or with another
>purpose altogether. It is associated to the UFO phenomenon and
>is very intelligent. For this reason it will not be captured,"
>he added.


Take Note:

TERRA.cl
SANTIAGO (CHILE). July 21.

In conversation with Alberto Urquiza, an investigator from GEO
and an expert dedicated to study the attacks attributed to the
Chupacabras, assured that, must of the latest incidents have
been erroneously related to the mystical animal. He is certainty
that some incidents reported on the Metropolitan Region are
well-known animal work. According to Urquiza, this fact slow
down the investigation: "There are attacks erroneously
attributed to the Chupacabras, in which it is the presence of
dogs and felines. These incidents confuse the investigation,
distracting our resources and time". That could be the case of
two attacks on July 1, in the communes of Buin and Pudahuel.
Attacks that ended the live of almost 80 hens. "Although, at the
beginning, we thought this cases were the product of the
Chupacabras (understand that the Chupacabras is an unknown
species), thank to the cooperation of veterinarians and other
specialists, we managed to established that in Buin the massacre
was done by a feline that escaped from a nearby zoo. In the
Pudahuel's case, it was clearly the participation of street
dogs". explained Urquiza.

"For the investigator, it is fundamental to analyze each case
separately. the possibility always exists that the attacks are
the result of the action of a well known animals. This work, due
to the huge numbers of reported incidents and the limited
resources, has been transformed into a more and more complex
task.

Dr. Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo
Miami UFO Center






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 27

                       UFO Experience Real Hair-Raiser

From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 16:55:57 -0300
Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 11:49:57 -0400
Subject: UFO Experience Real Hair-Raiser


Source: The Solihull Times - Warwickshire, UK

http://icsolihull.icnetwork.co.uk/news/local/content_objectid=3D13216636_met=
hod=3Dfull_siteid=3D91411_headline=3D-UFO%2Dexperience%2Dreal%2Dhair%2Draise=
r-name_page.html

Jul 25 2003
By Roger Jones

A Solihull Times reader who saw what he believes was an
unidentified flying object is wondering if others had the same
hair-raising experience.

Office manager Ashley Barry, 20, of Grafton Road, Solihull, was
travelling in a car with a friend after visiting the UCI Cinema
at Touchwood between 12.10-12.30am on Sunday, July 13.

He said: "There were two massive red and purple bright lights
about 15-20 metres apart above a house.

"They were both roughly in line with each other.

"My friend spotted the UFO first. It was moving, not hovering.

"I was so frightened, I could literally have jumped out of my
skin. It was quite freakish.

"It was really frightening just because of the sheer size of the
thing."

Mr Barry was a passenger in a car driven by his friend Mark
Cotterill.

* Mr Barry, who is employed by a double glazing manufacturing
firm, would like anyone who had a similar hair-raising
experience that night to write to the editor giving details of
what they saw.









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 27

             Re: Investigator Question on Object Shape - Lemire

From: Todd Lemire <tlemire@comcast.net>
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 16:02:48 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 11:54:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Investigator Question on Object Shape - Lemire


>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 23:21:19 -0700
>Subject: Re: Investigator Question on Object Shape

>>From: Todd Lemire <tlemire@comcast.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:52:54 -0400
>>Subject: Investigator Question on Object Shape

>>Hello Listers,

>>Has anyone in their travels come across a sighting report
>>describing an object shape similar to the alphabetic letter 'H'?

>>Todd Lemire

>Hello Todd:

>I could only find two H-shaped UFOs, and one of those morphed
>into a saucer shape and back again!

>#13039: 1978/05/15 02:00h d=5m 03:13E 46:38N WEU FRN ALR
>MONTILLY><BAGNEUX,FR:8M H-SHAPED OBJ FOLOS CAR:
>WHT BEAM shines up from DOME on TOP:see drawing
>/r194 LUMIERES dans la NUIT.(LDLN France) Issue No. 184

>#16455: 1993/10/06 21:10h d=5m 01:46W 53:02N WEU GBI ENG
>A52/ASHBOURNE,DERBYs:2/CAR:H-SHAPE BECOMES SCR then H AGAIN:
>FOLOS CAR:FLASHES
>Ref# 97 MISCELLANEOUS JOURNALS. Footnote 12

>That last reference:  Misc. Journals #12 traces back to: UFO
>MAGAZINE (UK). Quest International. Graham Birdall, ed. P.O. Box
>2, Grassington, Skipton, N.Yorks BD23 5UY. Bimonthly.

>I only had 1 or 2 issues here, it was probably from one of
>those, and little hope of finding it.  I do not have Volume and
>Issue # nor date of publication, probably the mid 1990s.

>While scanning my database for "H-shaped" objects, I found a lot
>of fish and dish-shaped ones.  I will spare you those!
>
>In spite of the 15 years between the two sightings above, and
>the venues in two separate European countries, the synopses of
>events sound strangely alike, nearly identical.


Larry and Terry,

Thanks for the feedback and the database entries. I've also
received a reply from a person in Hawaii who states they have a
video of an H shaped object which they are going to send me. I
can't wait to see it.

Another researcher also brought to my attention the UMMO 'H'.

These 'H' shaped objects are quite rare it seems and the one
that was reported here in Michigan showed strong characteristics
of being a 'superior mirage'.


Thanks again,

Todd

http://www.michiganufos.com







                         The UFO UpDates Archive
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 27

                      'Secret' Apollo 11 Transmission?

From: Mori Kentaro <airsmither@ig.com.br>
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 18:13:29 -0300
Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 12:01:06 -0400
Subject: 'Secret' Apollo 11 Transmission?


Hi,

A couple of days ago, some major ufologists here in Brazil
promoted on a TV show a supposed "secret" Apollo 11 transmission
where (I presume) Aldrin and Armstrong talk with Houston,
implying they saw UFOs or something as startling. I understand
the audio is at least some years old, and have been circulating
on the internet for ages. It can be downloaded here:

http://www.edicolaweb.net/nonsoloufo/voic_a11.htm

The transcript of the audio is as follows:

Astronaut 1: Ha! What is it?

Astronaut 2: We have some explanation for that?

[Beep]

Houston: We have (not), don't worry, continue your program!

[Beep]

Astronaut 1: Oh boy it's a, it's, it, it is really something
(similar to) fantastic here, you, you could never imagine this!

[Beep]

Houston: Roger, we know about that, could you go the other way,
go back the other way!

[Beep]

Astronaut 1: Well it's kind of (rigged) ha, pretty spectacular
...... god ... what is that there?

[Beep]

Astronaut 1: It's (hollow), what the hell is that?

Houston: Go Tango, Tango!

[Beep]

Astronaut 1: Ha! There's kind of light there now!

[Beep]

Houston: Roger, we got it, we (watched it), lose comunication,
Bravo Tango, Bravo Tango, select Jezebel, Jezebel!

[Beep]

Astronaut 1: ...... ya, ha! ...... but this is unbelivable!

Houston: (we call you up Bravo Tango, Bravo Tango)!

Now, I don't know if this fictitious conversation originally
appeared on the A3 book and then someone made an audio based on
it, or rather Leslie Watkins incorporated part of this hoax
audio in the book. I guess it's the former.

Do anyone know more about this? It was promoted as real on a
national TV show, and the ufologists were outraged that NASA
supposedly alleged transmission failure where some brave and
attentive hams could record the amazing conversation in
question.


Thanks in advance,





                         The UFO UpDates Archive
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 27

                  Re: Filer's Files #30 -- 2003 - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 18:19:13 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 12:11:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #30 -- 2003 - Stanford


>From: Betsy Sinkey <westoo@comcast.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 22:14:31 -0500
>Subject: Re: Filer's Files #30 -- 2003

>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>>Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 16:05:01 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Filer's Files #30 -- 2003

>>Again, 'UFOs' appear to pose a real threat to commercial
>>aircraft. I have been videotaping these white discs and little
>>spheres in the vicinity of JFK since 1996. I hope a loss of life
>>doesn't ever happen as a result of a collision with one of these
>>'unidentified' aerial objects. There have already been run-ins
>>with these 'things' at the Mexico City airport. Such aerial
>>collisions are not as far-fetched as some may think.

>John Velez,

>Can you give me a specific incident where an "apparent UFO"
>collided with a commercial aircraft in Mexico City or anywhere
>else?

<snip>

Hello Betsy and List,

RADAR and VISUAL case with DAMAGE TO AN AIRCRAFT by a UFO:

Although it involves reported UFO damage to a private aircraft
and not to a commercial one, the remarkable case of May 3, 1975,
when Mexican pilot Carlos Antonio de Los Santos Montiel, age 23,
flew from the airfield of Zihuatenejo, Mexico, to Mexico City,
piloting a Piper PA-24, might be of interest.

For some of the details click on:

http://www.chez.com/lesovnis/htm/montiel75.htm

One of three domed-discs actually bumped the bottom under-side
of the aircraft, leaving a dent (the linked account misses that
important fact)!

We do not have to take Carlos' word for the incident because the
objects, along with the Piper PA-24 aircraft, were tracked on
radar. Copies of official documents confirming that are in my
files as a result of my investigation of this case, first-hand,
In Mexico City.

To my perception, Carlos Antonio de Los Santos Montiel was an
impressive and credible witness.

Jerry Clark, of this list, has interviewed the witness, also.
Perhaps he would share with us his impressions of the case and
the witness, despite the reported bizarre aftermath of a
reported attempt to silence the witness, including when he was
entering a hotel to be interviewed by J. Allen Hynek. (See the
link provided.)






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 27

              Re: Investigator Question on Object Shape - Olmos

From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos@yahoo.es>
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 00:32:51 +0200 (CEST)
Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 12:14:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Investigator Question on Object Shape - Olmos


>From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 02:31:51 -0500
>Subject: Re: Investigator Question on Object Shape

>>From: Todd Lemire <tlemire@comcast.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:52:54 -0400
>>Subject: Investigator Question on Object Shape

>>Hello Listers,

>>Has anyone in their travels come across a sighting report
>>describing an object shape similar to the alphabetic letter 'H'?


>I've never encountered a sighting of an object shaped like an
>"H" but I remember seeing a photo many years ago of a discoid
>craft with a symbol on it similar to the letter "H".


Terry, this was the infamous June 1, 1967 case in San Jose de Valderas,
Madrid (Spain) where Jose Luis Jordan Pe=F1a (the inventor of the false UMMO
papers) produced the series of hoaxed photos, as per his own confession.
The )+( sign was in the saucer=B4s base, representing its alleged
procedence from UMMO planet. Well, rubbish.


V-J






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 27

                            Crop Circles UK 2003

From: Mark Doulton <doults@tiscali.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 01:25:06 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 12:17:11 -0400
Subject: Crop Circles UK 2003



Having just returned from a visit to the Barge Inn pub in
Wiltshire - centre of all things re crop circles I would
recommend the site below for images of this years crop circles

www.temporarytemples.co.uk

If you want to know why I think the vast majority are hoaxes
email me and I'll send some photo evidence. Without doubt -
pleasing and clever art.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 27

                           Bonnybridge Photo Date?

From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos@yahoo.es>
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 11:06:56 +0200 (CEST)
Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 12:19:15 -0400
Subject: Bonnybridge Photo Date?


On April 12, 2003, Chris Burns was asking about a photo taken by
a Phil Trevis near Bonnybridge, Scotland.

Can I have the date when this photograph was made, for
cataloging purposes? Thanks.

Best regards,

V-J






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 27

                          Address For John Tenney?

From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 7:18:23 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 12:20:41 -0400
Subject: Address For John Tenney?


Does anyone have the E-mail or snail-mail address for John E. L.
Tenney?

This address no longer works

johntenney@mail.com

Thanks.


Jan Aldrich
project1947@earthlink.net
Project 1947
http://www.project1947.com/
P. O. Box 391
Canterbury, CT 06331
(860) 546-9135







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 27

              Undersea World Points To Possible Origin Of Life,

From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 11:00:58 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 12:24:13 -0400
Subject: Undersea World Points To Possible Origin Of Life,


Source: Space.Com

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/lostcity030724.html

24 July 2003


Undersea World Points to Possible Origin of Life, Maybe Even ET

By Robert Roy Britt - Senior Science Writer

In a new study, researchers speculate that a towering undersea
hot-water chimney laden with microbes is just the sort of place
that might have spawned life on Earth or even other planets.

The hydrothermal vent system discovered two years ago has now
been found to have endured for 30,000 years. Researchers said
similar setups -- on Earth and possibly on other worlds -- might
last millions of years and could have been incubators for the
first life.

The Lost City, as it has been named, is a craggy column of
minerals and microbes sitting 2,500 feet below the surface of
the Atlantic Ocean. It is 180 feet (55 meters) tall, higher than
any other known underwater vent system and more than twice as
tall as most.

Unique system

Underneath the structure, seawater seeps down into the fractured
crust of Earth. There, the decay of one mineral forms another,
called serpentine, and releases heat in the process. This
process of serpentinization lifts warm water laden with minerals
back into the ocean, building the structure.

Because the precious light and nutrients needed to support life
are scant on the seafloor, hydrothermal vents are typically hubs
of microbial activity.

The Lost City is potentially significant because it is the only
known hydrothermal vent system that relies on chemical reactions
to warm the water, not volcanic activity. The structure sits
near but not on an area of volcanism.

If hydrothermal venting can occur without volcanism, the
scientists involved in the study say, it greatly increases the
number of locations on the seafloor of early Earth where
microbial life could have started.

"It's difficult to know if life might have started as a result
of one or both kinds of venting," said Deborah Kelley, a
University of Washington oceanographer who worked on the study.
"But chances are good that these systems were involved in
sustaining life on and within the seafloor very early in Earth's
history."

Scientists do not know how or where life on Earth began,
however.

Potentially common

Kelly said there may have been many vents built from
serpentinization on the early Earth, because the planet's
mantle, now an inner layer, had yet to be covered over with
crust, putting it in contact with seawater and making the
process possible. For serpentinization to occur today, there
must be fractures in the crust.

The 18-story system, which is about 30 feet (9 meters) wide, is
similar to other hydrothermal vents in other ways. Water
circulates beneath the seafloor, picking up heat and organic
compounds and rising buoyantly back into the ocean. Warm fluids
mix with cold seawater, chemicals separate from the vent fluids
and solidify, and mounds, spires and chimneys of minerals are
created.

Microbes love this stuff. Unlike plants, they don't need
sunlight. Instead, vent microbes use chemicals, such as hydrogen
sulfide or methane, for energy. Around some vent systems, larger
life forms congregate and feed off the microbes.

Other vents that operate just like Lost City may exist and await
discovery, the scientists say.

Supporting ET?

The newfound venting process might have occurred on other
planets, too.

The key material that interacts with seawater at Lost City is
called peridotite, which is abundant on other planets in our
solar system, said Jeff Karson, a geologist at Duke University.

"Peridotite can be exposed by tectonic processes or by major
cratering events," he said. "This means that Lost City-type
venting could occur, or has occurred, in oceans on other
planets, and such venting would have the potential to support
microbial systems."

While Mars and the other rocky planets are ocean free, moons of
Jupiter are thought to harbor oceans beneath their frozen
crusts. Other researchers have previously speculated that vent
systems on the Jovian satellite Europa, for example, might
support life.

The research was funded by the National Science Foundation and
is detailed in the July 25 issue of the Journal [of] Science.
The paper's lead author is Gretchen Fr=FCh-Green of Switzerland's
Institute for Mineralogy.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 28

                  CI: Tholus-Like Formation In Arabia Terra

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 20:27:41 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 12:35:57 -0400
Subject: CI: Tholus-Like Formation In Arabia Terra


Cydonian Imperative
7-28-03

Tholus-like Formation in Arabia Terra
by Mac Tonnies

For images and links:
http://www.mactonnies.com/cydonia.html (page 40)


Malin Space Science Systems has the following to say about the
peculiar "bull's eye" formation shown below:


"This April 2003 Mars Global Surveyor (MGS) Mars Orbiter Camera
(MOC) image shows a stair-stepped mound of sedimentary rock
(right of center) on the floor of a large impact crater in
western Arabia Terra near 11.0=B0N, 4.4=B0W. Sedimentary rock
outcrops are common in the craters of this region. The repeated
thickness and uniformity of the layers that make up this mound
suggest that their depositional environment was one in which
cyclic or episodic events occurred over some period of time. The
sediments might have been deposited in a lake, or they may have
settled directly out of the atmosphere. Most of the layered
material was later eroded away, leaving this circular mound and
the other nearby mesas and knobs. The image is illuminated by
sunlight from the lower left."

[image]

The stair-stepped mound is interesting as it appears similar to
the Tholus in Cydonia (see preceding article). But for all of
its similarity, there are crucial differences. For example, the
"steps" in the undoubtedly geological "stepped mound" are
concentric, whereas the "ramp" that winds its way from the base
of the Tholus appears to "corkscrew," much like the access ramp
on the Edwards Air Force Base formation (see above). Sedimentary
deposits can stack successive layers atop one another, like
tiers in a wedding cake, but they can't account for the strange
surface detail displayed by the Tholus. Nevertheless, the
stepped mound is an exotic formation that conveys a spurious
sense of artificiality; I won't be in the least surprised if it
crops up on Mars anomaly websites as a "Martian palace."

More high-resolution images of the Tholus (with its oddly
triangular peak) will greatly assist efforts to discern possible
architecture on the Martian surface.

(With thanks to Prof. Stanley McDaniel.)

-end-







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 28

                  Re: P-47: Sad Day At The Archives - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 23:42:12 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 12:37:58 -0400
Subject: Re: P-47: Sad Day At The Archives - Velez


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 08:52:15 -0400
>Subject: Re: P-47: Sad Day At The Archives

>>From: Chester <projectbluebook@EROLS.COM>
>>To:  PROJECT-1947@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
>>Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:07:05 -0400
>>Subject: Sad Day At The Archives

>>Hello Jan and List,

><snip>

>>Herb was absolutely shocked at the narrow-mindedness of the Air
>>Force and for that matter most the other agencies for their
>>antiquated approach to records. It was a massive shut-down of
>>records. He said that 9-11 has given the agencies the needed
>>backing to come in and raise havoc. An example was a bomb
>>mission survey report of a Japanese harbor that was written by
>>the Research and Analysis Branch of the Office of Strategic
>>Service. They were the predecessor to the CIA so... CLASSIFIED!

>>I asked if my FOIA could be regenerated in a couple of months
>>and he said no. This would be for years and the only way we
>>could try to get around it would be to have an actual document
>>number and submit a FOIA for that to be reviewed.

>>This is happening in all record groups. There are things being
>>removed from public access that have been declassified for
>>twenty years. It has the staff at the Archives furious and very
>>concerned. Look out OSS records. The Atomic Energy Records are
>>being pulled by the droves. Many of these records are in major
>>universities, so are they next?

>>Anyway, there are 1812 boxes of Air Intelligence Records that
>>won't see the light of day for who knows how long. I think there
>>are some real gems in those records that will fill in the gap of
>>the early Grudge days, but maybe not.

>>Oh well, I'll just have to travel down a different path.

>May have to appeal directly to the Air Force... via your local
>Congressman or Senator.

Hi All,

A 'pitch' for the U.N. Petition!

This is symptomatic of a general trend in this country where
more and more, power becomes centralized. This latest is yet
another disturbing example of a situation where the American
government chooses to tighten, rather than loosen, its grip on
any and all information in its possession. Bush in particular has
been systematically restricting the flow of, and controlling,
information.

Historians have been complaining that they no longer have access
to enough raw data/information to maintain an accurate historical
record. That doesn't bode well for the state of the democracy or
the future success of any efforts toward disclosure of UFO related
information here in the USA.

Therefore, for practical reasons, our energy, resources and
efforts toward securing UFO info disclosure needs to be focused
where it'll do the most good. The international community.

There are eight nations that have opened up their UFO related
files and made the information available to the press, general
public and interested groups. (We) as a community of people who
profess to care about getting at the truth regarding UFOs, need
to concentrate on _increasing_ the number of nations that have
opened up their UFO files. As Americans we need to support an
international effort simply because according to all the 'signs'
(latest trends) it ain't gonna happen here at home in the USA -
 anytime soon.

By standing up to be counted we can collectively make a
difference. It's going to take the force of thousands upon
thousands of signatures to do it though. Have _you_ read and
signed the U.N. petition?

Please, for all our sakes/benefit... read and sign the
International Petition to the Secretary General of the U.N.
calling for UFO info disclosure.

The signature 'count' currently stands at 3232. Tell everyone
you know to read and sign the petition. Demand answers from our
representatives!

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition/


Regards to all,

John Velez







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 28

                    Re: Filer's Files #30 -- 2003 - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 00:25:22 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 12:55:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #30 -- 2003 - Velez


>From: Betsy Sinkey <westoo@comcast.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 22:14:31 -0500
>Subject: Re: Filer's Files #30 -- 2003

>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>>Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 16:05:01 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Filer's Files #30 -- 2003

>>Again, 'UFOs' appear to pose a real threat to commercial
>>aircraft. I have been videotaping these white discs and little
>>spheres in the vicinity of JFK since 1996. I hope a loss of life
>>doesn't ever happen as a result of a collision with one of these
>>'unidentified' aerial objects. There have already been run-ins
>>with these 'things' at the Mexico City airport. Such aerial
>>collisions are not as far-fetched as some may think.

>John Velez,

Hi Betsy,

You asked:

>Can you give me a specific incident where an "apparent UFO"
>collided with a commercial aircraft in Mexico City or anywhere
>else?

Yes, I can!

In a 1995 documentary by Brit and Lee Elders (of the Mexico City
UFO flap) they featured the interviews two of the airport's
radar/tower personnel and the pilot of a commercial airliner
that was involved in a mid-air collision with a white, disc
shaped aerial object. (UFO) The collision with the unknown left
a dent in the bottom of the jetliner. Maybe one of our Mexican
members can elaborate on these reports.

It is clear from both interviews that airport personnel and
pilots who have to fly into and out of the airport share deep
concerns about the UFO 'safety' question/problem. There is
nothing 'theoretical' about 'UFOs' for these people. They find
that they have to deal with the safety issues raised by the
presence of the UFOs in the course of their daily work.

That's no joke. And no joking matter for the tower personnel or
the pilots and crews of these flights.

>I suppose such a mishap is possible but very unlikely.

Not at all. And not in the case of busy international airports.
One or two of these 'unknowns' hovering around in airspace that
falls within take-off or landing corridors can present an
annoying logistics situation -at best- and a very real life
threatening situation at worst. UFO + commercial airliner =
possible calamity.

Bear in mind that it has been reported by pilots that coming
into close proximity to one of these 'unknowns' can interfere/
wreak havoc, with the electrical, navigation and computer
systems of an aircraft. _Instantly_ creating a life threatening
situation for the occupants of the airplane.

Maybe for the (assumed) crew of the UFO as well. The UFOs
certainly seem to show a genuine curiosity about their earthly
counterparts/airplanes.

>I have witnessed a few UFOs myself and am in complete awe of
>their ability to maneuver in a split second.

Yes. The whole experience gets _burned_ into your brain.
Something you never forget. It replays itself in your head from
time to time as if the original experience created shockwaves
that continue to reverberate within the internal ecosystem long
after the incident.

>Yes, JFK is very busy!

As busy as airports get. It has to be one of the busiest in the
world.

>I'd really be interested in the work you've been doing in the
>JFK Int'l. Airport area.

It isn't 'work' per se. I started to record my sightings because
their startling frequency demanded it, and because I wanted to
document/corroborate my reports with video and photos. To offer
some kind of evidence. I don't expect anyone to simply take me
at my word. It's _my_ responsibility to offer whatever
substantiation I can provide for the reports I make in public.

Watch the skies over New York Betsy. There are some really odd
thing-a-ma-bobs flying around up there!

Nice to meet a fellow New Yorker here on the List.


Regards,

John Velez








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 28

                   No MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Case

From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 23:57:12 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:00:10 -0400
Subject: No MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Case


MUFON UFO Journal July 2003
Directors Message
Reproduced with permission


NO MUFON Endorsement

By John F. Schuessler
MUFON International Director

An alleged UFO abduction case took place in Corguinho, Brazil on
Sept. 15, 2002, at 7:30 p.m. The person making the claim is
Paulistan Urandir Fernandes de Oliveira. Part of his claim
involved alleged physical evidence left behind during the
abduction event.

During the past three months this case has been bantered about
on the Internet, and much heated language has been exchanged
between the Internet participants. Some of these people even
claim that MUFON has endorsed the case as being valid. This
could not be further from the truth. MUFON doesn't endorse or
reject a case based on claims and/or Internet rhetoric.

Instead, we want to see the results of a thorough investigation,
hopefully by multiple investigators, and laboratory analysis
results for any physical evidence involved in the case.
Unfortunately, MUFON has not received an investigative report of
this case. So we are left to read the Internet musings like
everyone else.

This case was first brought to MUFON's attention by Linda
Moulton Howe in March 2003. She is not a MUFON member and was
not making a report to MUFON. Instead, she was inquiring about
where MUFON stood on the case. The answer was that we couldn't
take a stand because we had no investigator's report of the
incident. We knew nothing about it.

Howe went on to say she had spent considerable time in Brazil
investigating the alleged abduction. Her quest was to get the
physical evidence into a laboratory and see what an analysis
could reveal. That appears to be a good goal. She said we could
find the results of her on-going investigation on her website at
www. earthfiles.com. It appears that she is the only
investigator to do an on-site investigation of Oliveira's
September 2002 abduction claim.

Since that time we have heard from A. J. Gevaerd, Brazilian UFO
Magazine editor and MUFON Representative for Brazil, and found
that he has been after Urandir Oliveira for a number of years,
believing him to be a hoaxer or worse. Because of this he didn't
need to do an on-site investigation of the September 2002
abduction claim. He has strong feelings about the background of
the witness and worries that Howe's investigation might tend to
give credibility where it should not be given.

People on the Internet are busily taking sides and adding fiery
rhetoric to the discussion, but none of them has done an actual
on-site investigation. Many seem to have lost their objectivity
and have stooped to name calling and character assassination.
They want MUFON to do the same, but it is not going to happen.

This, as in any other case, is not about taking sides. It is
about the conduct of good investigations, the gathering of all
types of documentation, the freedom to question all inputs from
all individuals, having the physical evidence analyzed in
multiple laboratories, and then openly presenting the results of
the investigation for public inspection.

While UFO incidents with physical evidence present are not
common, they offer the most promise of new discoveries. To be
really exciting, these cases should exhibit the characteristics
of high strangeness and high credibility. The Oliveira case
certainly possesses characteristics of high strangeness. On the
other hand, the characteristic of high credibility has been
called into question by Gevaerd.

Once credibility has been questioned, we are left with two
approaches. One is to ignore it and hope it goes away, and the
other is to redouble the efforts in the investigation to find a
solution. Ignoring a case seldom works. It usually results in
the case taking on a life of its own and never dying.

That leaves us with intensifying the investigation - finding
additional witnesses, conducting independent investigations,
comparing investigators' notes, utilizing multiple laboratories
for the analysis of all physical evidence, and analyzing the
communications between all parties involved in the case.

Because all of this is costly in time and dollars, the chances
of success are not real high. And in the Oliveira case, high
emotions and Internet ranting seems to be adding an additional
fog factor to the results.

Oliveira's claim that he was abducted from his bed after taking
a shower, and then taken out through the ceiling of the room is
not unlike the claims of other abductees. The main difference is
with the remaining physical evidence. It is almost totally
unlike any other abduction case.

The pillow and bed sheet were left with the shape of his body
emblazoned in the cotton and polyester material. A similar
pattern was left on the surface of the ceiling. A textile
analysis could provide a lot of insight into the resulting
conditions of the bed sheet and pillow. Using the techniques of
an arson investigator could do the same for the materials found
in the ceiling pattern.

An additional unique aspect of this case is the claim by people
living nearby that strange stones fell from the sky at the same
time. Any respected geology laboratory would be able to identify
every element in the stones, compare them with other stones from
Brazil or elsewhere, and an isotopic analysis might verify the
earthly origin of the rocks or lack of it.

We expect that good laboratory analysis work will show whether
or not the evidence was hoaxed, and if hoaxed, how it was done.
That would close the case forever and provide the tools that
could be used to analyze the data in future similar cases.
However, if the results prove to be unique and mysterious, then
perhaps we will see new discoveries come out of all of this.
Either way, we believe science will prevail.

Since this is not a MUFON investigation, we can only report on
what we hear about the results. Enough has already been said
about the claims. There is little doubt that A.J. Gevaerd will
continue to pursue Oliveira on behalf of his Brazilian UFO
Magazine and Linda Moulton Howe on behalf of her Earthfiles web
site.


Posted by
Terry Groff
http://terrygroff.com/ufotools/








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 28

             "Mystery Payments" & The Gulf Breeze Embarrassment

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 01:44:37 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:05:28 -0400
Subject: "Mystery Payments" & The Gulf Breeze Embarrassment


A 'Black Attack' happens when researcher Jerry Black alleges
that Gulf Breeze "mystery payments" and a one-sided
investigation has led to a lasting embarrassment for Ufology.

'Ufological "Mystery Payments": An Interview With Jerry
Black' can be seen online at:

http://home.fuse.net/ufo/JBLACK.html








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 28

                           Mogul 4 That Never Was

From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 12:25:25 +0200
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:12:52 -0400
Subject: Mogul 4 That Never Was


To All,

I think it is about time to come back to the question of wether
the Mogul 4 balloon train was flown or not. After having read
carefully the books of Charles Moore and Karl Pflock ,and having
leafed through the 1,000 pages USAF Roswell Report, I seems more
and more obvious to me that what Brazel found on the Foster
ranch on June 14 was not the Mogul 4 ballloon train but a more
modest cluster of metorological balloons with one or several
radar targets of the famous model ML-307B, the one with flowered
tape. The basic facts are:

Brazel stated in his interview published in the Roswell Daily
Record, that he had found on June 14 "considerable scotch tape
and some tape with flowers printed upon it" This is not
perfectly clear, but we have to admit that he most probably
described one or several radar targets with flowered tape. But
what if he found, not the Mogul 4 train, but a meteorological
balloon cluster ?

Geophysicist Albert Crary noted in his diary for June 4:
"no balloon flight again on account of clouds. Flew regular
sonobuoy mike up in cluster of balloons."

He did that in the morning, having been in the Tularosa range
from midnight to six, and the balloon cluster trajectory was
followed in the morning's clear sky.

There was no Mogul 4 launching at three in the morning and
not even at 5.

Moore himself does not remember such a launching.

The launching of clusters of balloons with radar targets, for
metorological purpose and for testing of equipment, is confirmed
in the books of Moore and Pflock, and in the USAF Roswell
Report.

The Progress Report No 7 of NYU for the month of June,
reproduced in the Roswell report, states:

"Field tests were conducted at Alamogordo Army Air base during
the week of June 1, using clusters of meteorological balloons.
The primary object of these tests was to perfect the handling
and launching techniques for large flights......"

It is probable that these tests included NYU radar targets.

Karl Pflock is more precise in the description (page 148): "The
meteorological flights were clusters of three to seven neoprene
sounding balloons lifting a string of three to five ML-307B
radar-reflecting targets linked together one above the other,
like a very large kite tail".

He also mentions that Moore "used multiple targets because he
found the radar-signal return from a single target was too faint
to be useful" (quote from interviews in 1993).

Charles Moore insists in his book that only NYU used the model
ML-307B, with flowered tape. The stock was in the North hangar
at Alamogordo and only the NYU team had access to it.

Captain Smith, of the Army Air Force weather service, used
regular ML-307 targets (pages 112 and 113). But what about
Albert Crary?

Moore himself notes that "Crary had the use of a hangar in the
north area" (page 82). It seems obvious that Crary used the same
equipment as NYU for testing the NYU launchings.

Another critical point is that Brazel described a rather small
amount of balloon debris: about 5 pounds, some 10% of the total
weight of a Mogul balloon train (25 kg for Mogul 5). Moore
admits that "about four of five of the balloon -and-target
combinations could have been required." (page 110). And Brazel
did not find any of the equipments of a Mogul train (page 108).
This is easily explained if we admit that, as stated by Crary,
there was no Mogul 4 launching!

In short, we have many reasons to suppose that Brazel found a
modest cluster of balloons, with ML-307B targets. What are the
consequences ?

The idea that the Air Force officers of Roswell could have
mistaken that for a "flying disk" becomes even more uncredible
than in the case of a "huge" balloon train. All they had to do
was to break one ot the balsa sticks to understand what kind of
material they had.

The idea that the cover-up was decided to protect the top secret
Mogul project falls down. On the contrary, the idea that the
cover-up was decided to hide the discovery of a flying disk is
reinforced.

Besides, the discussion about the hypothetical Mogul 4 flight
becomes somewhat irrelevant. The flight parameters of a simple
cluster without the Mogul equipment would be different from
those of Mogul 5 which Moore used as a model. However, the
testimony of Brazel implies that he did find a balloon cluster
on the ranch.

So, this seems to be is an important issue, and I would like to
know if there is any serious argument to the contrary.


Gildas Bourdais








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 28

                      Chilean Winged Weirdoes And Imps

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 09:56:37 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:22:34 -0400
Subject: Chilean Winged Weirdoes And Imps


Source: Calama UFO Center
Date:   July 27, 2003


Witnesses To The Incredible: Winged Weirdoes and Imps

**A preliminary warning**

In considering both the relevance and the exclusive nature of
the following accounts, I must caution that this testimony was
cited in an independent fashion, attesting that there was total
agreement between their different versions. The eyewitnesses
were approached by me and it was not they who stepped forward
with their version of the events; they were initially reluctant
to do so given the spectacular nature of their claims.
Furthermore, all was done extemporaneously without the
opportunity to craft the events discussed herein at an earlier
time.

--- Jaime Ferrer R., researcher.



The time being 17:00 hours on July 23, 2003 at Calama (Chile),
four 16 year olds have made extraordinary and relevant
statements to CUFOC (Calama UFO Center).

The first of these occurred recently on Tuesday, July 23 this
year. However, the second one represents a previously
unpublished event: it was possible to contact four of the five
witnesses for the first time, who had been able to observe in
utter astonishment how six strange humanoid beings attacked and
mutilated a lamb.


The First Case - "It was a moment of terror"

Diego, a young student living in the city of Calama and who is
in his first year of middle school, frequently travels to visit
his grandfather, who lives in a sector adjacent to the tourist
site of San Pedro de Atacama. He is always accompanied by his
friends and neighbors Jonathan and Carlos.

These days, taking advantage of the winter academic recess, the
friends travelled to San Pedro to visit his grandfather. Since
the area is dense with vegetation, they took advantage of the
opportunity to walk around and have fun assisting Diego's uncle
in rounding up his goat heard, which is located 500 meters away
from the grandfather's house.

On Tuesday, July 23 of this year, the time being approximately
20:30 hours, the three youths decided to return to the
granfather's house and spend the night. Diego lit the stove to
boil water and serve tea with some loaves of bread they had
brought from Calama; his grandfather was out of the house. His
only source of light came from a candle, since the area lacks
electricity.

At around 9:05 p.m., moments after the boys were serving up
their supper, they could hear the dogs on the property issue
strange moans and howls; furthermore, they could hear the
canines running from one side to another as if frightened, a
situation they couldn't help but notice.

At around 9:15 p.m., strange knocking sounds rattled the door to
the house, swiftly increasing in violence and accompanied by
scratches, a situation which left the boys speechless and
instinctively made them get up from their seats, running to one
of the corners of the house. They intuited that the knocks and
scratches were not the result of something natural; terror
seized them and they feared for their lives.

There was a bed in the place where they sheltered. They
desperately took hold of blankets and mattresses to cover
themselves.

One can recreate the image of how they sheltered in that corner,
being able to do nothing but pray fervently, believing that the
door would yield at any time, allowing the beast to enter.

After 3 or 5 minutes of fear, the sound ceased completely. Diego
got out from uner the blankets, looked out the window and did
not see anyone. He opened the door and didn't see anything
either. "It's all right, boys-it's gone!" he said. Now the three
were outside the house, trying to recover from the fright, when
at a distance of some 15 meters-standing amid pear trees-they
could see a horrifying creature standing a meter and a half
tall, and sporting wings measring at least 3.5 meters.

It was covered by glossy black skin, very clean and hairless. It
appeared as though it had recently emerged from the water, but
without being wet. It had a large head and a small beak,
presenting a sort of crest which was apparently missing a piece
from a fight. Its eyes were immense and completely black, but
sparkled brilliantly. They thought it was a prehistoric being,
since its wings had a strong resemblance to those of
pterodactyls or bats, featuring bone-like protubreances which
form the skeletal frame of the wings. Its legs were sturdy and
had powerful claws like those of a carrion bird, but much
stronger.

Suddenly, the being fluttered its wings, shaking the tree in
front of it and rising into the air with extraordinary ease,
losing itself in the dark of the night. Fearing its return,
which fortunately did not occur, the three boys slept in a
single bed that night.

If this story is frightening, the following one, without
representing any further risk to bodily safety, is also
relevant, since there had never been reports of eyewitnesses to
the way in which certain animals are mutilated. This is the
first time that 5 individuals provide complete details on these
extraordinary events.

In this cse, aside from Diego, Jonathan and Carlos, another
friend named Mario was in the group along with Diego's uncle
Emilio, 42, the owner of the animals. These were the privileged
witnesses to the moment when 6 entities attacked and mutilated a
lamb.

The Second Case

Before moving continuing with the story, I would like to point
out that Diego, Jonathan and Carlos now feel that the presence
of beings at night in the aforementioned area is almost natural.
Diego states that with his flashlight he has been able to follow
the activities-on more than one occasion-of small, strange
beings which he does not hesitate to dub "imps".

"It's common to see these beings in this area; they're always
cutting right in front of us or can be heard to run among the
shrubs," he says.

"But I never saw anything like this."

On Thursday, May 22, 2003, the 5 aforementioned witnesses were
rounding up animals at around 18:30 hours. It was just getting
dark.

The group of youngsters, plus Diego's uncle, were returning
toward the animal pens and just 10 meters shorrt of their
destination, saw six small beings, standing some 60 cm tall
each, emerge from the thicket.

It is worth noting that, given the way they described these
beings, the event was not out of the ordinary for them, since
they claim that this is not the first time they have witnessed
something unusual. However, Diego says that he was startled not
by their presence, but rather, by the time and number of "imps"
that showed up.

The description given by each of them is quite frankly
fantastic, and even appears to be drawn from the "Walt Disney X-
Files". However, considering the large number of coinciding
descriptions, and the seriousness in presenting their eyewitness
accounts, I have no choice but to give credit to their words and
declare that what they said was indeed true.

The details proferred by each witness coincided entirely; but as
is natural, some noticed details that were overlooked by the
others.

The drawing corresponds to one of the witnesses; however, he
states that [all of the imps] were different. These are the most
relevant and coinciding details:

- Dark grey and hairless skin

- Large oval-shaped head

- Two large pointed ears]

- Two relatively small, oval eyes

- Large nose (different shapes)

- Mouth disproportionate to the rest of the face

- Yellowed, separated teeth; or else lacking teeth

- They emitted grotesque, sarcastic and hoarse laughter

- Their features were very similar to those of a human, and
  showed signs of cuts or injuries to their skin. Diego says
  that one of them had a chunk of nose dangling from its face,
  but this seemingly did not affect it all.

- Short neck, similar to that of a child

- Something similar to a necktie could be seen under their
  necks, but it could not be readily identified

- Short arms with articulations (elbows and wrists)

- Hands similar to human, but ending in short but strong black
  nails

- Most of them presented bloated abdomens

- They were all dressed differently, such as flannel of various
  colors, but in tatters.

- They all had belts around their bloated waists, with different
buckles.

- Their legs were short and strongly resembling those of a
  rabbit, but presenting long and powerful nails.

- Their manner of running is unusual: they take short steps
  followed by long jumps (like a kangaroo), achieving a height
  of up to 1.5 meters. They move sideways like people suffering
  from dwarfism.

- Judging by their size, these beings must weigh between 35 and
  40 kgs; however, they believe they couldn't have weighed more
  than ten.

- From the moment they emerged from the thicket, the beings
  began to play, jumping into the air and bumping different
  parts of their bodies deliberatly. They also scratched the
  ground, kicking up dirt and stones.

- During the entire duration of the incident-some 10 minutes-all
  perceived a strong odor of rotten eggs and sulfur.

- All claim that the beings looked at them and laughed
  grotesquely, a situation wich surely inspired fear in them.

- The sudden presence of these beings created a state of stupor
  that left them paralyzed for several minutes, relegating them
  to the role of observers.

- After "playing" in front of the startled group, the beings
  headed toward the flock of lambs, which gathered together
  showing signs of great fear.

- One of these beings jumped on one of the lambs in a single
  bound, like someone mounting a horse. The rest of the animals
  huddled in one end of their pen.

- This being began to "play" with the lamb, squeezing it with
  its legs and then digging its claws into its neck. The lamb
  only shivered and moaned, not moving.

- Later, 4 of the creatures surrounded the animal, raining blows
  upon it until it fell. At that time, the 6 beings began clawing
  at the lamb's flesh with violent scratches and extreme hatred,
  as it bawled desperately.

- The witnesses could see pieces of flesh with that lamb's wool
  flying off, but could only be spectators to the event.

- In spite fo this, Emilio, Diego's uncle, was able to shake
  himself out of the stupor and began throwing rocks at the
  creatures.

- All witnessed how the creatures dodged the rocks, laughing
  even more strongly and grotesquely, a situation which filled
  them with fear once more.

- But after this, they ceased their attack upon the lamb and
  regrouped, jumping and "playing" until they reached the place
  they had appeared from, vanishing into the thicket.

- The group immediately got it together and quickly approached
  the attacked lamb.

- The animal presented a large number of wounds on its body,
  drawing attention to some very fine cuts and circular holes
  in its throat which they ascribed to the first creature's
  claws.

- Given the seriousness of the wounds and the loss of blood,
  which sent it into spasms, Emilio had to sacrifice the animal
  right there and then.

- Diego says that the area is very special and it is common to
  see certain groups engaging in strange activities in which
  black dogs and cats are sacrificed.

Personally, I can add that these beings represent only a small
part of a complex world that has always surrounded us. Each of
these beings has different means of attack; none is similar to
another's, a situation that certainly causes confusion when it
comes to investigations.

On the other hand, Diego, Jonathan and Carlos claim that months
ago, along with another group of friends, they found a being
dangling from a wire which was extraordinarily simlar to another
that had been found in Concepci=F3n and which they had seen on TV.
"It was identical, only taller, some 40 cm, with the same hand
placement, large-headed and slant-eyed. It was completely dried
out. Some persons who saw us with this being traded it with us
for supplies. I don't know who might have it now," he said.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Translation (c) 2003 Scott Corrales, Institute of Hispanic
Ufology

Special thanks to Dr. Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo (Miami UFO
Center) and Jaime Ferrer (Calama UFO Center). For more
information please contact: ufomiami@prodigy.net

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Visit The Inexplicata Website www.inexplicata.us










   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 28

                 Re: Conference To Uncover Truth Of 'Secret

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 12:26:52 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:29:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Conference To Uncover Truth Of 'Secret


>From: Eustquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
>To: UFO UpDates -Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 16:52:02 -0300
>Subject: Conference To Uncover Truth Of 'Secret Government'


>Source: ABC News - Australia

>http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2003/s910815.htm

>AM - Saturday, 26 July , 2003 08:27:00
>Reporter: David Weber

>HAMISH ROBERTSON: Flying saucers, UFOs, extra-terrestrial life,
>well, most people think it's all fiction.

>But for some it's all too real, and an international conference
>is being held in Perth this weekend to discuss the "hidden
>truths," information that a so-called secret government is
>withholding from the public.
>
>David Weber reports.

>David Weber: Conference Organiser, Mary Rodwell, has counselled
>800 people in Perth who say they've been contacted by non-
>humans.

>Ms Rodwell says most of these experiences seem to have occurred
>when the individual is relaxed, like when they're about to go to
>sleep.

>Mary Rodwell: I mean beings from other planets, but I also say
>that we think some of the beings may be what's known as inter-
>dimensional as well. So, I mean it's a very hard one to explain
>but it's like not all of them come from this dimension.

>David Weber: What kinds of experiences do people have with to
>these beings?

>Mary Rodwell: The classic X-Files is the bright lights in the
>room, not being able to move, feeling a presence or presences
>around you, obviously feeling frightened and frozen in their
>beds, they feel like they're paralysed, often there's a sense of
>a buzzing sound around them, and sometimes they have a feeling
>of going through walls or, and having certain procedures done on
>them on the craft.

>David Weber: Given that a lot of these experiences have happened
>in relaxed states; is it possible that these are manifestations
>of the mind?

>Mary Rodwell: One could say that if they weren't left with marks
>on their body that they can't explain, including a shaved area
>on one gentlemen's leg, for example. And these marks actually
>fluoresce in black ultraviolet light, and they're scoop marks,
>they're rashes, they are like little dots that are very painful,
>and these always happen after these experiences.

>David Weber: Do you believe all of the people that you've
>counselled have been contacted by non-humans?

>Mary Rodwell: I would believe 99 per cent certainly. There is
>the odd view that I think actually need medical help.

>David Weber: Ms Rodwell says people generally go to the doctor
>first. But they usually believe the person has bumped into a
>piece of furniture or run into something.

>The conference will focus on claims that non-humans have put
>objects inside people, such as metallic things that have their
>own nerve system. However, none of this material will be on show
>for physical examination because it's apparently in laboratories
>in the US.

>David Weber: Ms Rodwell says people should be aware that a
>secret government is trying to keep certain information from
>getting into the public arena.

>Mary Rodwell: The whole idea of this conference is to make this
>information available to the public.

>David Weber: Is the media part of this conspiracy?

>Mary Rodwell: I dont think the media per se is, I think some of
>the corporations that run the media have obviously got maybe a
>different agenda, and if they want something squashed, believe
>me, they'll squash it.

Hello All,

A rant-let s'il vous pla=EEt regarding the 'Mary Rodwell'
interview?

>Hamish Robertson: That report compiled by, I think, a very
>sceptical David Weber.

Who can blame Mr. Weber? It has been the great misfortune of
those whose lives have been impacted by UFO occupant contact, to
have become associated with; 'experts' with little or no
credentials -and New Agers that contribute a steady stream of
distracting and obfuscating 'belief systems' about the nature of
the abduction phenomenon.

At the core, there is a very real phenomenon that has affected a
shockingly large number of people worldwide. Piled high and deep
on top of that core of hard to explain cases, is 99.9% pure BS.

Channelers, astral projectors, hoaxers, wannabees, opportunists
and charlatans of every color and stripe have attached
themselves to the phenom like domestic flies on dung. To the
very real detriment of those who are reporting/suffering
through, a life time of UFO occupant contact experiences.

Add to this sorry situation the _lack_ of a real investigation
into the matter by independent, highly credentialed experts who
are willing to publish under their own names - and what you get
is; the confusing mess of (mostly Internet driven) 99.9% pure
twaddle that we have today. Some of which has graduated (by
repetition) over time to the status of broadly accepted and
_propagated_ dogma.

Speculation masquerading as fact.

Mucho Baloney, poco known fact.

So many phonies have surfaced posing as the 'real thing' that
no one can tell who is straight and who is crooked. The liars
usurp and then regurgitate the existing reports/details. How is
anybody supposed to tell the fakes apart from those who are
reporting actual contact experiences?

In some cases (ie; Oliviera ) they even try to 'create' physical
evidence. The simple truth is, you can't tell em apart unless
the 'bad-guys' screw up and reveal themselves somehow. Or,
somebody else exposes them.

It makes for a confusing morass to have to plow through. More
than enough to put any intellectually honest person 'off' and
force them to turn their natural curiosity and attention away
from the whole subject in a combination of pure frustration and
disgust.

And 'who' loses out here?

Why the abductees of course!

And who cares?

Nobody!

Why?

Because it's all too confusing and probably BS anyway!

Class dismissed. End of story.

(If) the government wanted to 'cover-up' the fact that US
citizens are being kidnapped/abducted willy-nilly by non-human
beings... who do so with complete impunity... because the
government is powerless to prevent it... they wouldn't have to
do or say a bloody thing. The whole issue is so 'far out' to
begin with and mired in a swamp of intellectual traps and
pitfalls, that who in their right mind would even bother to look
into it seriously. Whoever says that ridicule and human greed
and folly aren't effective disinformation tools, has only to
look as far as the UFO and UFO abduction phenomenon.

Poor witnesses and abductees. I guess we all just have to wait
for the first saucer to land in a densely populated area; in
broad daylight and spit out a small grey being with large black
eyes; who is also willing to admit to his/her/its, dastardly
deeds of willful kidnap.

There is about as much chance of that landing and admission
happening as there is of abductees being given the independent,
and multi-disciplinary investigation they deserve. It's all a
sad joke really, and the joke is on us, the victims.

To the public I say.....

Enjoy the illusion of your position in the cat-bird seat while
you can. There is a very real chance that one day you will
discover that you are an 'Indian' and not a Conquistador. When
your own world view has been shattered into 10.000 pieces like
ours has, maybe, just maybe you will begin to understand what we
(abductees) have had to learn to live with.

Warning:

Richard Boylan (the unmentionable one) has now turned his
attention on children. He has managed to associate himself with
Australian researcher Mary Rodwell much to Ms. Rodwell's
detriment. (and to the potential danger and detriment of the
children he may come to influence either directly or indirectly
in Australia.)

I hope Mary Rodwell and other Autralian ufologists wake up and
realise that they are standing on very shaky moral and
intellectual ground by associating themselves in any way with
someone like Richard Boylan. (Who sees 'spooks' in every closet
and a potential hot-tub tryst in every female abductee.)

Go to: google.com

Type in the words: Richard Boylan Hot Tub

Have an interesting, eye-opening read, Ms. Rodwell.


Regards to all,

John Velez, abductee







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 28

                          Secrecy News -- 07/28/03

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:15:04 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:34:10 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 07/28/03


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2003, Issue No. 64
July 28, 2003


**      SCHUMER SEEKS LEAK INVESTIGATION
**      SENATE SHIELDS HOMELAND SECURITY FROM FACA
**      BASIC RESEARCH WILL REMAIN UNRESTRICTED, DOE SAYS
**      FOIA LITIGATION NEWS


SCHUMER SEEKS LEAK INVESTIGATION

Following up on news reports that Bush Administration officials
"leaked" the name of a CIA officer who is the wife of
administration critic Ambassador Joseph Wilson, Senator Charles
E. Schumer (D-NY) has asked the FBI to initiate a criminal
investigation into the matter.

"This disclosure was part of an apparent attempt to discredit
Ambassador Wilson's findings about potential uranium exports
from Niger to Iraq and intimidate other officials from speaking
their minds," Sen. Schumer wrote in a July 24 letter to FBI
Director Robert Mueller.

"As you are aware, the unauthorized disclosure of information
relating to the identity of an American intelligence official is
a crime punishable by fines and up to 10 years in prison under
the Intelligence Identities and Protection Act," he noted.

(That Act, at 50 U.S.C. 421-26, prohibits disclosure of
identities of intelligence personnel as part of a "pattern of
activities intended to identify and expose covert agents."  It
is not clear that a single disclosure would legally constitute
such a "pattern.")

Sen. Schumer recalled that after a reported leak of classified
congressional testimony in June 2002, "The FBI questioned nearly
100 people, including all 37 members of the House and Senate
intelligence committees and some 60 staff members."

"This current scandal is just as serious as the one from June
2002.... The FBI needs to find out who made the name of this
agent public and prosecute them to the fullest extent of the
law. There can be zero tolerance for this kind of action,"
Schumer said.  See his July 24 letter here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2003/07/cs072403.html


SENATE SHIELDS HOMELAND SECURITY FROM FACA

The Department of Homeland Security (DHS), still in its
bureaucratic infancy, is already dogged by allegations of
corruption.  But the U.S. Senate is blocking attempts to address
those allegations.

Noting that the Homeland Security Advisory Council includes
representatives of corporations seeking to do business with the
new Department, Sen. Robert Byrd (D-WV) proposed that this and
other DHS advisory groups should be subject to the open meeting
requirements of the Federal Advisory Committee Act (FACA).

"Corporate leaders and campaign contributors have been awarded
coveted seats on the advisory committees that make policy
recommendations to Secretary Ridge and to others in the
Department," Sen. Byrd said, echoing criticism offered lately by
the Project on Government Oversight (POGO) and others.

"By requiring that the Department of Homeland Security comply
with the Federal Advisory Committee Act, my amendment will
ensure that Congress and the American people know how these
advisory committees are being used," Sen. Byrd said.

But by a party line vote of 50-46 on July 24, the Senate
determined to keep the homeland security advisory process beyond
the scrutiny of the general public and rejected the Byrd
proposal.  See:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/2003/s072403.html


BASIC RESEARCH WILL REMAIN UNRESTRICTED, DOE SAYS

The Department of Energy (DOE) has reaffirmed the longstanding
policy that basic scientific research will remain unrestricted
"to the maximum extent possible," and that no new controls other
than national security classification will be employed to limit
scientific publication and collaboration.

The DOE statement emerged in response to concerns from
scientists and others that new information controls, under the
loose rubric "sensitive but unclassified," were threatening the
vitality of the U.S. national laboratories.

See this Department-wide memo from Energy Secretary Spencer
Abraham, dated May 12, 2003:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/doe/sec051203.pdf

Secretary Abraham cited a related letter from National Security
Adviser Condoleeza Rice, dated November 1, 2001, which is posted
here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/bush/cr110101.html


FOIA LITIGATION NEWS

The latest round of an FAS Freedom of Information Act (FOIA)
lawsuit against the Central Intelligence Agency seeking
disclosure of the 2002 intelligence budget total probes the
limits of judicial deference to agency heads such as the
Director of Central Intelligence (DCI).

Is the Court effectively obliged to accept whatever the DCI says
under oath?  (Yes, says the government.)  Or, as we suggest, can
the DCI's presumed authority be squandered by repeated factual
errors, omissions and misrepresentations?  See our July 25 reply
in support of our motion for summary judgment here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/foia/2002/sa072503.html

Coincidentally, the judge in the case, the Honorable Ricardo M.
Urbina, is the subject of an interesting and revealing profile
by Ken Adelman in the August 2003 issue of Washingtonian
Magazine.

The latest, mostly adverse judicial ruling in a national
security FOIA lawsuit came in the case of FBI whistleblower
Sibel Edmonds (who was recently profiled on CBS Sixty Minutes).
 See this July 23 decision:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/jud/edmonds072303.pdf

On a more favorable note, the FOIA lawsuit brought by A. Jay
Cristol for records concerning the 1967 Israeli attack on the
U.S.S. Liberty (Secrecy News, 07/09/03) is drawing to a formal
conclusion because "the National Security Agency has fully
satisfied Plaintiff's FOIA request," according to a draft
settlement agreement. "There no longer remains any controversy
to be adjudicated in this case."

I can claim perhaps an iota of credit for this happy outcome
because I suggested to Cristol early on that he acquire a copy
of the handbook "Litigation Under the Federal Open Government
Laws 2002," edited by Harry A. Hammitt, David L. Sobel and Mark
S. Zaid.

"It contains a treasure chest of useful material," wrote back
Judge Cristol, a Miami bankruptcy court judge, in thanks.

Copies of "Litigation Under the Federal Open Government Laws"
may be purchased through the websites of the Electronic Privacy
Information Center (www.epic.org), the James Madison Project
(www.jamesmadisonproject.org), or through Harry Hammitt's Access
Reports at:

http://www.accessreports.com/sub.html#lit



_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood@fas.org
voice:  (202) 454-4691







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 28

                        Re: UFO Frauds Redux - Ecker

From: Don Ecker <decker0726@comcast.net>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:27:35 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:39:27 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Frauds Redux - Ecker


>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:00:52 -0800
>Subject: Re: UFO Frauds Redux

>>From: Don Ecker <decker0726@comcast.net>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:28:01 -0700
>>Subject: UFO Frauds Redux


Greetings UpDate List.

Well, as I fully expected Mr. William Hamilton did what I knew
upfront he would do... refuse to refute the claims and fraud as
put forward by Guy Kirkwood/ Mel Noel et al.

As I wrote on July 17, 2003;

"The bottom line is very simple. Since it has been 13 months and
Bill Hamilton never came up with the proof, I think it is time
he admitted he was wrong about my expose not being accurate. I
sincerely doubt however that Bill will. But if Kirkwood/Noel has
his DD 214 why not furnish a copy to us and I will do a complete
retraction in the pages of UFO Magazine if I am wrong about him
being a fraud. That seems to be very fair, doesn't it? After all
I have waited over a year, what do you say Bill?"

Bill Hamilton wrote me back on the same day stating;

"Don,

It is not my place to come up with the proof. It is Guy's place
and he chooses not to.

You were inaccurate in your article in that Guy's 2 middle names
are Mel Noel - he has three middle names between Guy and
Kirkwood.

I saw his documents as have others.  However, he does not make
copies of them so I have dropped this altogether as now he has
not satisfied my criteria for investigation."

Okay, let's call a Spade a Spade and a fraud a fraud. If
Kirkwood had the documents and HAD HE SERVED AS AN AIR FORCE
Pilot he would provide the documents. And Hamilton claiming my
expose was "Flawed" because Kirkwood has 3 middle names is
simply bogus. Who knows how many names Kirkwood has, he keeps
changing them. Hamilton knows, if he has the intelligence I
credited him with, that Kirkwood is simply a Game Player, Scam
Artist Con Man. If he has any documents he refuses to provide
them because he knows that if anyone checks them with the Air
Force or government he can be arrested for trying to pass
himself off as a military officer... a felony.

Own up Bill. As I stated a year ago Kirkwood took you for a
ride. You aren't the only one either, but if you are the
researcher you claim to be it is time to stand up and be
counted.


Don Ecker
UFO Magazine
www.ufomag.com


-----------------------------------
Today's UFO Quote!

"You are a boil on the ass of ufology!"

 --John Keel, Author, "Mothman Prophecies" to Jim W. Moseley,
   Publisher, "Saucer Smear"








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 28

               Re: UFO Experience Real Hair-Raiser - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 14:47:56 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:59:06 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Experience Real Hair-Raiser - Stanford


>From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 16:55:57 -0300
>Subject: UFO Experience Real Hair-Raiser

>Source: The Solihull Times - Warwickshire, UK

>http://icsolihull.icnetwork.co.uk/news/local/content_objectid=13216636_metho
>d=full_siteid=91411_headline=-UFO%2Dexperience%2Dreal%2Dhair%2Draiser-name_p
>age.html

>Jul 25 2003
>By Roger Jones

>A Solihull Times reader who saw what he believes was an
>unidentified flying object is wondering if others had the same
>hair-raising experience.

>Office manager Ashley Barry, 20, of Grafton Road, Solihull, was
>travelling in a car with a friend after visiting the UCI Cinema
>at Touchwood between 12.10-12.30am on Sunday, July 13.

>He said: "There were two massive red and purple bright lights
>about 15-20 metres apart above a house.

>"They were both roughly in line with each other...


<snip>

Huh???!!!

I don't know what they saw, but the reporter doesn't seem very bright,
even if the lights were!

How so?

Because any two points define a line.

"They [the two "massive lights"] were roughly in a line with each other."

Roughly?  :)

Ray Stanford

"You know my method.  It is founded upon the observance of trifles." --
Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 28

                   Re: Filer's Files #30 -- 2003 - Shough

From: Martin Shough <mshough@parcellular.fsnet.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 20:29:56 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 18:06:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #30 -- 2003 - Shough


>From: Betsy Sinkey <westoo@comcast.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 22:14:31 -0500
>Subject: Re: Filer's Files #30 -- 2003

>Can you give me a specific incident where an "apparent UFO"
>collided with a commercial aircraft in Mexico City or anywhere
>else?


Check out http://www.narcap.org/








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 28

                  Re: "Mystery Payments" & The Gulf Breeze

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 15:49:05 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 18:08:08 -0400
Subject: Re: "Mystery Payments" & The Gulf Breeze


>From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 01:44:37 -0400
>Subject: Ufological "Mystery Payments" And The Gulf Breeze Embarrassment


>A 'Black Attack' happens when researcher Jerry Black alleges
>that Gulf Breeze "mystery payments" and a one-sided
>investigation has led to a lasting embarrassment for Ufology.

>'Ufological "Mystery Payments": An Interview With Jerry
>Black' can be seen online at:

>http://home.fuse.net/ufo/JBLACK.html


To find out whether or not Gulf Breeze is an "embarrassment" and
whether or not there were "mystery payments", go to:

http://brumac.8k.com/GulfBreeze/JBLACK/BlackInterviewJul03.html








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 28

                Re: No MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Case -

From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:16:14 -0300
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 18:50:27 -0400
Subject: Re: No MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Case -


>From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Subject: No MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Case
>Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 23:57:12 -0500

>MUFON UFO Journal July 2003
>Directors Message
>Reproduced with permission

>NO MUFON Endorsement

>By John F. Schuessler
>MUFON International Director


The truth always wins. Congratulations to MUFON and the
International UFO Community.


Regards









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 28

                          Perry van den Brink/UASR?

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:26:21 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 18:54:38 -0400
Subject: Perry van den Brink/UASR?


Hello all:

I have been trying to get in touch with Perry van den Brink of
UASR Holland for well over a year now.

The last messages from him on various UFO email lists appeared
in 1998-1999. All the old email addresses from those postings,
and from his old UASR web pages are invalid. Messages all
bounce. Back in those years, he posted some things to UFO
Updates

Can somebody please provide contact info, preferably a valid
email address?

Any help much appreciated!


- Larry Hatch








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 28

                  Re: P-47: Sad Day At The Archives - White

From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:29:58 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 18:56:50 -0400
Subject: Re: P-47: Sad Day At The Archives - White


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 23:42:12 -0400
>Subject: Re: P-47: Sad Day At The Archives

<snip>

>There are eight nations that have opened up their UFO related
>files and made the information available to the press, general
>public and interested groups. (We) as a community of people who
>profess to care about getting at the truth regarding UFOs, need
>to concentrate on _increasing_ the number of nations that have
>opened up their UFO files.

Hmmm. I'm taking John's statement above, and combining it with
the many criticisms of Dr. Steven Greer's Disclosure Event in
May of 2001 made on this forum and the Strange Days Indeed radio
show, hosted by Errol.

Would it be one way to bring about such an increase in the
number of nations opening up on UFOs for:

- the serious researchers to put together a vetted sub-list of
  those witnesses they feel gave and will give accurate
  testimony, and

- hold a "UFO Disclosure Open House" at or near the U.N.
  with some of the witnesses presenting to the U.N. reps?


Eleanor White








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 28

                 Re: UFO Experience Real Hair-Raiser - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 15:21:46 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 18:58:23 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Experience Real Hair-Raiser - Hatch


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 14:47:56 -0400
>Subject: Re: UFO Experience Real Hair-Raiser

>>From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 16:55:57 -0300
>>Subject: UFO Experience Real Hair-Raiser

>>Jul 25 2003
>>By Roger Jones

>>Office manager Ashley Barry, 20, of Grafton Road, Solihull, was
>>travelling in a car with a friend after visiting the UCI Cinema
>>at Touchwood between 12.10-12.30am on Sunday, July 13.

>>He said: "There were two massive red and purple bright lights
>>about 15-20 metres apart above a house.

>>"They were both roughly in line with each other...

><snip>

>Huh???!!!

>I don't know what they saw, but the reporter doesn't seem very
>bright, even if the lights were!

>How so?

>Because any two points define a line.

>"They [the two "massive lights"] were roughly in a line with
>each other."

>Roughly?  :)

>Ray Stanford


Hi Ray!

Maybe the boob meant to say that he couldn't tell if an
imaginary line between them was curved or not.

I'm reminded of the three nite-lites "in a perfect triangle".
I'm still waiting for an imperfect triangle.  Maybe the lady who
saw a UFO "between Denver and Phoenix" can help.



Best wishes

- Larry Hatch


" You know my method, I keep the fridge ice cold."

- [burp!]







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 28

                      Alien 'Experts' Converge On Perth

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 19:14:38 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 19:14:38 -0400
Subject: Alien 'Experts' Converge On Perth




Source: The Courier-Mail -  Brisbane, Queensland, Australia

http://www.thecouriermail.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,6820357%255E1702,
00.html

07-27-03

Alien 'Experts' Converge On Perth

Video footage purporting to show the surgical removal of
implants from people abducted by aliens will be one of the
highlights of an extraterrestrial conference in Perth today.

The Hidden Truths Conference, hosted by the Australian Close
Encounter Resource Network, will be attended by people who claim
to have had contact with aliens, as well as experts on aliens
and extraterrestrial activities.

Network founder and Perth resident Mary Rodwell said people who
claimed to have been taken aboard spacecrafts by aliens would
give personal accounts of their experiences.

She said there would also be discussions about an allegedly lost
civilisation in Australia, explanations about changes in human
evolution and how changing earth frequencies affects human
behaviour.

However Ms Rodwell said the highlight would be a presentation by
American surgeon and author Dr Roger Leir.

"Dr Leir will show authentic footage documenting the surgical
removal of implanted objects from individuals who said they had
been visited by extraterrestrials," she said.

Ms Rodwell said she has provided counselling to more than 800
Perth people since 1997 who claim to have had contact with
aliens.

She is the author of the book Awakenings which is highly
regarded by those interested in the phenomenon.


[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 28

                      'Strange Secrets' Exposes Unknown

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 19:27:04 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 19:27:04 -0400
Subject: 'Strange Secrets' Exposes Unknown




Source: The Town Talk - Alexandria, Louisiana

http://www.thetowntalk.com/html/822111EC-3A53-4A28-8ED2-95BE6D394011.shtml

07-27-03

'Strange Secrets' Exposes Unknown


Sightings of Bigfoot in Grant, Rapides and LaSalle parishes, as
well as a crop circle in Shreveport and the January 2002 UFO
reports near Boyce have resulted in more attention being brought
to issues of the unknown and the paranormal in Sportsman's
Paradise.

Is the government looking into these mysterious events, kind of
like FBI agents Fox Mulder and Dana Scully on the late, great
Fox Network show, "The X-Files"?

According to "Strange Secrets: Real Government Files on the
Unknown," a fascinating new Paraview/Pocket Books release by
authors Nick Redfern and Andy Roberts, it appears that the
American and British governments indeed have been quietly
investigating the bizarre and strange.

Government agents have investigated everything from UFO
sightings to the existence of Noah's Ark on a remote Turkish
mountaintop, according to "Strange Secrets."

This 312-page book is a real page-turner and touches on events
that I was surprisingly unfamiliar with. The reason I say that
is that since I was a child I've been reading books that discuss
ghosts, the Bermuda Triangle and the usual odd stew of esoteric
topics, so I consider myself an expert of sorts.

The book is broken up into four parts - "High Strangeness,"
"Saucer Secrets," "Mind Games" and "X-Creatures." In each part
there are subsections that talk about different events.

In the "Saucer Secrets" segment, Redfern and Roberts note that
residents reporting strange lights floating over the English
countryside in 1915 were never given an explanation for the
appearance of the anomalous orbs.

In fact, the government agents reporting on these strange lights
leaned toward the idea "that the lights were under some form of
intelligent control."

What makes this interesting to me is that the modern UFO era
began in 1947 with the Kenneth Arnold saucer sighting and the
"Roswell Crash." You rarely hear of UFO's being reported prior
to '47, but the British government clearly had.

There is also some good information about alien abductees and
contactees being shadowed by government agents back in the 1950s
and '60s. In one instance, an uncovered FBI report shows how
they sat in on a talk given to an audience in Denver, Colo., by
alleged contactee George W. Van Tassel.

Van Tassel's speaking engagements took place primarily during
the late 1950s and early 1960s, at the height of the Cold War
and concerns about communism.

It is believed the "subversive" California desert dweller (and
inventor of a strange machine called an Integratron) was more
than a kook; his socialistic views may pose a threat and had to
be investigated.

"He said that he has also been visited by the people from outer
space and has taken up the cause of brining the fats of these
people to the American people," states the declassified FBI
report dated April 26, 1960.

Other chapters tackle CIA reports regarding "remote viewing."

In a chapter called "Butchers from Beyond," the authors reveal a
1979 FBI document that tackles the strange topic of animal
mutilations. This one is titled "Cattle Mutilations Occurring in
Western States."

Citing a 1974 report out of Madison County, Neb., a witness
reported seeing a glowing object with a "bluish green light" on
it floating near a copse of trees. This sighting coincided with
cattle mutilations in the same area where genitalia, ears, eyes
and other body parts were meticulously removed.

There are many more eye-popping and jaw-dropping reports and
information (Loch Ness Monster, spontaneous human combustion,
among others) that leave more questions than answers.

It appears the American and British governments are as equally
perplexed as the average witnesses are.

Redfern and Roberts definitely did their research. I hope they
do a follow-up.

So if you're not sure whether to pick up "Strange Secrets," just
remember Agent Mulder's motto; "The truth is out there."


[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 28

                    Mist And Mystery Of Mars Water Spots

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 19:35:27 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 19:35:27 -0400
Subject: Mist And Mystery Of Mars Water Spots




Source: The Albuquerque Tribune, New Mexico

http://www.abqtrib.com/archives/news03/072803_news_bright.shtml

07-28-03


Mist And Mystery Of Mars: Water Spots

By Sue Vorenberg
Tribune Reporter

The more scientists learn about water on Mars, the more
mysterious it becomes.

A team from Los Alamos National Laboratory has released the most
in-depth Mars water map yet - showing how much water is present
across the entire planet's surface - but its findings have left
more questions than answers, said Bill Feldman, a lab scientist.

"If you were to melt all the water we see frozen in the top
layer of Mars' soil it would be enough to make a global ocean
that would cover the planet completely 14 centimeters deep,"
Feldman said. "That's about up to a person's ankles."

Finding water on Mars is important to any manned explorations of
the planet, because astronauts will need it to survive and the
liquid is too heavy to send with them on a spacecraft.

It's also important because water might indicate that life has
evolved on a planet other than Earth, Feldman said.

"We can understand a lot more about the geology and the planet's
structure of the surface by understanding water," Feldman said.
"Water is a major component of weathering, which changes the
planet's landscape. On top of that, of great interest to the
scientific community is finding life anywhere outside of the
Earth. Water is one of our best indicators of that. One of the
biggest questions is: Is there life on Mars? Was there life on
Mars?"

Feldman presented the most recent findings and the new map
Friday at the sixth International Conference on Mars in
Pasadena, Calif.

Feldman and his team have been mapping water in the top few
inches of Martian soil for the past year, thanks to a device
called a Neutron Spectrometer, which Feldman invented.

The device can see amounts of hydrogen - a component of water -
 from an orbiting spacecraft, and scientists can analyze that
data to determine how much water exists.

"There's a lot of water around the equatorial region, and it's
very young - about 10,000 to 20,000 years old," Feldman said.
"That's strange. We can't explain it. Nobody knows why it's
there or how it got there."

Something had to happen within the last 10,000 to 20,000 years
to put that water at the equator, he said.

The age also is strange because it doesn't conform with other
water features on Mars.

Parts of the planet are covered with indentations that look like
riverbeds formed from flash floods, but it turns out those
features are bone dry, at least at the surface, and have been
that way for at least a billion years, Feldman said.

Right now Feldman is more interested in the "young" water and
how it got there, but there are a lot of calculations to be done
before scientists really understand why it is there, he said.

"We're all thinking about it," he said. "One thought is that
quite recently the south polar cap, which is covered with dry
ice, heated up enough to uncover itself and put a pulse of water
vapor into the air that went high enough to make it snow at the
equator. But as soon as we get a hypothesis about why it's
there, somebody else shoots it down."

The polar caps are covered with dry ice and water ice. The
northern cap has much more water ice than the southern cap,
leading Feldman to speculate that the water ice from the
southern cap has moved to other parts of the planet.

"It's really complicated, and there's a lot of work still to be
done," Feldman said. "When more instruments and rovers get to
Mars we'll know a lot more. This is a very exciting time to
study Mars - the results are just fascinating."

The Mars Map: The water map is on the Web at this web site:

http://www.lanl.gov/worldview/news/photos/mars.shtml


[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 28

                        Albany Man Searches For UFOs

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 19:41:47 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 19:41:47 -0400
Subject: Albany Man Searches For UFOs




Source: The Daily Star - Amite, Louisiana

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=9912673&BRD=1423&PAG=461&dept_id=16954
6&rfi=6

07-28-03


Albany Man Searches For UFOs

By Sylvia Schon
Staff Writer

ALBANY - Scott Arnett looks, talks and acts as normal as
anybody. He is, in fact, disarmingly down to earth, considering
his avocation.

Arnett, 49, is a state section director and field investigator
for Mutual UFO Network, Inc., an international organization
dedicated to compiling, analyzing and publishing reports of
unidentified flying objects.

Is he nuts?

"I'm not going to deny that I'm crazy. Nuts? No. I think I
approach this with a pretty logical outlook. Like I said, you
have to go down the middle of the road," Arnett said.

Crazy or not, Arnett has lots of company. Average, everyday
people, radar technicians, nuclear scientists, physicists,
anthropologists, chemists, medical doctors, psychologists, ham
radio operators, and many other professionals and non-
professionals have joined MUFON or have at least contacted
members to report an unusual experience.

Arnett himself is a retired paramedic from the New Orleans area
and is working on a two-year degree from Southeastern Louisiana
University in occupational safety and health.

His interest in UFO reports actually began as an interest in
astronomy while he was in his teens. After reading one of Frank
Edwards' books on UFO reports, Arnett's own interest in the
topic took hold.

The book was a series of straightforward reports on sightings by
witnesses who appeared to be credible.

Straightforward and credible remain the keywords in his work as
an investigator.

"Ninety-six to 98 percent of the reports are explainable as
normal aircraft, swamp gas or even the planet Venus which can be
very bright," Arnett said. "It's that other 2 or 3 percent I
wonder about. When you are questioning a witness, you can't be
judgmental. You can't let that interfere. You have to keep an
open mind that this could be as much bull as fact. What makes an
investigation hard is if you've got somebody who is so UFO pro
that everything in the sky is a UFO. On the other hand, you have
the debunkers that there is no way and everything has to be
Venus or swamp gas. They will always find a reason why. So
you've got to come to the middle and you've got to use good
judgment and have an open mind."

Arnett said he has personally never seen a UFO, but after years
of talking to witnesses and reading other accounts, he does have
a general point of view.

"I think something's going on, but I couldn't tell you what,"
Arnett said. "I have talked to some very credible witnesses in
the past who have seen things and were very frightened. They
were cautious about reporting it, too, but it was just so
frightening to them that they had to tell somebody."

One of those occurred in 1976, when he went out on his first
case as an investigator.

Hunters had reported an object hovering and at times moving
erratically over the swamp about two miles from the Michou
facility in New Orleans east.

The hunters described the object as about 40 feet in diameter,
that it glowed and changed colors as they watched.

Four days later Arnett was part of a team that accompanied one
of the hunters back to the site.

They found a 14-foot wide pattern of reeds twisted and smashed
in a circular pattern. The trees above had been scorched. Some
of the branches had actually burned and fallen to the ground.
The reeds on the ground were not burned, however.

"I noticed right away that our feet were muddy and the ground
was very soft. I could see no track of any vehicles," Arnett
said.

A geologist with the team took samples of the soil and reeds
back to a New Orleans lab for testing. No radiation was found,
and there was also no trace of any known fuel.

The hunter who accompanied them was very calm and soft-spoken,
Arnett recalled.

"He wanted to be believed and he wanted to help," Arnett said.

That is often the case with people who call in reports to MUFON
who might not otherwise report it to local authorities.

"MUFON is where they can vent this incredible thing that has
happened to them without worrying about whether their names will
wind up all over the newspaper or police blotter of whatever,"
Arnett said. "We will only publish names with their permission.
It is protected. We guarantee it."

A pair of Pascagoula shipyard workers went public with their own
encounter in 1973, causing a great commotion nationwide. The two
reported seeing a bluish glowing object moving along the river
where they sat fishing on a dock. The object silently appeared
behind them, and one of the men claimed he was taken into the
"ship" by a pair of the ship's occupants and later released.

Calvin Parker, who was 19 at the time, agreed to a followup
interview with Arnett years later. Parker told Arnett of seeing
two tall creatures emerge and take his friend before he passed
out.

Arnett said after talking to him, he believed Parker's account,
which was dramatic but less so than the man who claimed he was
abducted.

"He just did not seem the kind of person to seem to be shaken
easily," Arnett recalled.

Generally, however, Arnett is not impressed with the vast
majority of abduction claims.

"I get off the boat with a lot of people on this subject. I
notice that the abduction phenomena with your typical 'gray'
with the big black eyes and large head, things like that, have
only started after the movie "Close Encounters" came out,"
Arnett said.

He suspects many of those reports to be someone craving
attention, having nightmares or mental problems.

He also questions a Yale researcher's claim that one in four
people have been abducted.

"Give me a break," Arnett said. "The largest majority of people
that report abductions have to undergo these very invasive
probes. On our level, our technology is such that we can scrape
a cell off somebody's arm and know everything. So you are
telling me these 'people' are so advanced, they can do these
amazing things in the sky, come from thousands or billions of
light years away and have to stick probes up our wazzoos? Once
they got a hold of one of us, they would know everything. They
would just need a skin sample, so I just don't see it."

This area was "hot" in the 1970s and 1980s for UFO reports, but
it has been quiet in the area for a number of years, Arnett
said.

The current "hot" areas are South America and the northeast
where there have been "flaps" of reports of triangular-shaped
craft.

"They have some very good multiple witnesses on that one,"
Arnett said.

Multiple witness are the best kinds of reports. About 60 percent
of reports occur during night events and about 40 percent during
the day, he said.

One of those occurred in Slidell several years ago when someone
called the police to report an object hovering over his house.
Deputies arrived and saw the object and also recorded static
radio interference every time the object moved, Arnett said.

The most common shapes of crafts are the saucer shape, similar
to two bowls put together, the "cigar" shape and an egg or round
shape. But there have also been reports of triangular, diamond
and other shaped craft.

The "saucer" name came from the news media in the 1940s when a
airplane pilot flying around some mountains reported seeing what
appeared to be alien craft.

Arnett noted that pilots and radar operators are probably more
reluctant than most to report UFO sightings.

W.L. "Barney" Garner, the former Louisiana MUFON director, was a
radar operator who became interested in UFOs after an incident
where he and the pilot he was monitoring where watching things
"that cannot be" from their own particular spots - the pilot in
the air and Garner on the ground in front of a radar.

Arnett also noted that Dr. J. Allen Hynek founded the forerunner
of MUFON right after the U.S. Air Force ended its famed "Blue
Book Project." Hynek, now deceased, was in charge of that
project.

"He wanted to let the public know what is really going on with
these sightings. He couldn't say there were little green men. He
didn't know. But he could say what the witnesses were telling
them," Arnett said.

Arnett and his wife, Joann, live in Albany with their children.
He said his wife is tolerant of his interest in the topic.

To find out more visit MUFON's Web site at mufon.com or call
Arnett at (225) 567-6315.


[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 29

               Re: UFO Experience Real Hair-Raiser - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 19:32:35 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 06:50:50 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Experience Real Hair-Raiser - Stanford


>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 15:21:46 -0700
>Subject: Re: UFO Experience Real Hair-Raiser

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 14:47:56 -0400
>>Subject: Re: UFO Experience Real Hair-Raiser


>Maybe the boob meant to say that he couldn't tell if an
>imaginary line between them was curved or not.

>I'm reminded of the three nite-lites "in a perfect triangle".
>I'm still waiting for an imperfect triangle.  Maybe the lady who
>saw a UFO "between Denver and Phoenix" can help.

Hi Larry,

Yes, I imagine the lady who saw a UFO "between Denver and
Phoenix" could definitely solve this mystery.

I always thought an imperfect triangle was a situation in which
one of three lovers shoots another.  :)

This field is more fun than a barrel of drunken monkeys.

Ray

"You know my method.  It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 29

              Re: Alien 'Experts' Converge On Perth - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 19:39:31 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 09:10:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien 'Experts' Converge On Perth - Stanford


>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>To: <- UFO - UpDates Subscribers ->
>Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 19:14:38 -0400
>Subject: UFO UpDate: Alien 'Experts' Converge On Perth


>Source: The Courier-Mail -  Brisbane, Queensland, Australia

>http://www.thecouriermail.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,6820357%255E1702
,00.html

>07-27-03

>Alien 'Experts' Converge On Perth

<snip>

>Ms Rodwell said she has provided counselling to more than 800
>Perth people since 1997 who claim to have had contact with
>aliens.

>She is the author of the book Awakenings which is highly
>regarded by those interested in the phenomenon.

Huh?  I wonder how and when the reporter took a poll?  :)

Ray Stanford

"You know my method.  It is founded upon the observance of trifles." --
Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 29

                Re: No MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Case -

From: Charlette LeFevre <clefevre@oz.net>
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 00:20:47 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 09:24:22 -0400
Subject: Re: No MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Case -


>From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Subject: No MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Case
>Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 23:57:12 -0500

>MUFON UFO Journal July 2003
>Directors Message
>Reproduced with permission

>NO MUFON Endorsement

>By John F. Schuessler
>MUFON International Director

Now I'm even more confused by MUFON.

MUFON "non-endorses" the Brazilian Oliveira case it technically
endorsed by presenting at the last minute a one-sided view at
their much publicized annual Symposium?

Isn't MUFON supposed to be an investigative agency?
MUFON hopes to investigate but won't?

UFO cults don't warrant investigation or would it be too
sensitive to embarrass themselves by reversing their position
and possibly risk loosing their media spokesperson?

MUFON claims it doesn't have the bucks but are they forgetting
that A.J. Gevaerd Brazilian MUFON Director already has numerous
reports on Oliveira and lives in a nearby town and had already
submitted a letter to MUFON's Intl. Director Schussler?

I seriously have to question Schussler and his International
responsibility as he knew fully of Brazil's UFOlogists concerns
months before this recent "non-endorsement" and well before the
Symposium.

Was there any inquiry or recognition of the 300 Brazilian
UFOlogists or even of the Brazilian MUFON Director once
appointed by J. Allen Hynek over a "non-MUFON" presenter? None.

Now I'm left with even more questions but a distaste to inquire
further as it appears MUFON has a history of acting first then
making contradictory statements later.

As far as I am concerned they stand on their own merit of
supporting a commercially fraudulent case... knowingly and now
disregarding a fraudulent case... knowingly.

- Charlette LeFevre
Seattle UFO/Paranormal Group

>From Philip Lipson:

Since March, 2003 there have been critical articles published on
Earthfiles.com which have been republished in the MUFON Journal
and website questioning the right of the Seattle UFO/Paranormal
Group to question Linda Moulton Howe s investigation of the
Urandir Case and her cancellation from the Seattle UFO
Conference.

Several of Linda Moulton Howe s scientists that she has used to
bolster her case notably Phyllis Budinger have questioned her
procedures and results and feel that they have been miss-stated.

The main issue is not so much whether Urandir has been abducted
or not but the very real evidence and documentation by many
UFOlogists and reporters from Brazil and elsewhere that Urandir
is frankly a con artist who has defrauded people of land, makes
a living out of selling dubious artifacts, has been arrested
several times, has assaulted his ex-wife, and generally runs an
establishment which attracts gullible people and has all the
earmarks of a dangerous cult.

Whether Linda Moulton Howe ever proves  abduction or not is
basically irrelevant. She was flown down to Brazil at Urandir s
expense, wined and dined and shown what he wanted her to see.
Nowhere does she address the despicable  behavior past and
 present of Urandir, his scamming of innocent people and his
deception of innocent victims with his phoney faith healing  all
for money.

In an Interview with Whitely Streiber when asked about Project
Portal or Vestibule Urandir denies any knowledge of its
existence, yet there is a  web-site devoted to it.

http://www.portal2.org.br

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/projetoportalinternational/

http://www.earthfiles.com/news/news.cfm?ID=546&category=Science

Whitley: Ok, Urandir, I would like to ask you a couple of
questions. I would like to know what 'Project Vestibule' is?

Felipe: What project?

Vestibule. Urandir was talking about project vestibule. He
described it as being the result of a dream he had back on May
2, 1999 in an interview.

Felipe: He (Urandir) doesn't know what you are talking about.

I'm sitting here reading an interview with him that was taken
down on May 2, 1999, in which he discusses Project Vestibule and
says, 'Many have been in charge of this work of spreading and
preparation between them that are sensitive and the ones that
some have developed in a paranormal college.' And I'm wondering
what all of this means? Refresh his memory. This is an interview
he did with Vilaluz Magazine.


He says he remembers giving an interview to such a magazine, but
he does not remember mentioning of this. He doesn't know this
name.

There is much more to Urandir s activities than meets the eye.
It needs investigation on a consumer report level by unbiased
neutral investigators, not people who are flown down there and
only shown what they want them to see.

We cannot have another Jonestown or Heaven s Gate. Lets stop
making excuses and statements of endorsement/non-endorsement and
find out what s really going on before its too late. - Philip
Lipson


- Charlette LeFevre and Philip Lipson
  Seattle UFO/Paranormal Group







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 29

            Re: No MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Case - Gevaerd

From: A. J. Gevaerd <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 07:15:05 -0300
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 09:28:25 -0400
Subject: Re: No MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Case - Gevaerd


>From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Subject: No MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Case
>Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 23:57:12 -0500

>MUFON UFO Journal July 2003
>Directors Message
>Reproduced with permission

>NO MUFON Endorsement

>By John F. Schuessler
>MUFON International Director



I couldn't expect nothing less from Mr. Schuessler. MUFON
finally took a position in this case. Now it is just a matter of
time for LMH to realize that she had applied too much good
energy and time in a very bad case.

A. J. Gevaerd






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 29

                       Circles Baffle Michigan Farmers

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 10:13:08 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 10:13:08 -0400
Subject: Circles Baffle Michigan Farmers





Source: The Livingston County Daily Press & Argus - Michigan

http://www.hometownlife.com/news/TheDailyPressandArgus/default.asp?Page=7-28-200
3/FullStory/7_28_03.1st.11.htm

07-28-03


Circles Baffle Farmers
By Kristin Lukowski

Pat Esper didn't give a second thought to the 4-foot crop circle
he combined over while harvesting wheat from one of his family
farm's fields.

It was just some teens causing trouble, he thought.

But getting wind of another circle about 100 feet from the small
circle, this one measuring about 50 feet across, quickly brought
the other formation to mind. Both were discovered in the Howell
Township field, nearly perfectly circular, with the wheat
compacted to the ground in a counter-clockwise spiral.

"It's just like you see on TV," Esper said.

The larger circle also has two mysterious protrusions from the
circle, sticking out east and west. The western protrusion, a
small rectangle hanging off of the circle, is larger than its
opposite.

As best as Esper can figure, the crop circles were put there
between one and two weeks ago. A farmer came by to spray the
fields two weeks ago and saw nothing. During the next
application, he discovered the larger circle.

With the wheat dry and ready to harvest, anyone walking through
the field would leave some kind of a trail behind, Esper said.
The field is marked with tire tracks from trucks and farm
equipment, but not with trails through the surrounding wheat or
footprints in the dirt.

"This is kind of advanced for some kids to be doing it," he
said. "Whoever did it took some time to get the wheat to be all
laid out."

That field was the first one to be harvested. Esper has neither
discovered any other circles in that 80-acre field or in a
smaller wheat field nor heard about circles in other farms,
including those of the farmer who sprayed the field and
discovered the large circle.

"When you cut the crop, you cover every inch of the ground," he
said. "I was looking once I found this."

Esper's family runs Rocky Ridge Farms, working about 1,000 acres
in the county.

"We don't have time to do something like this," he said. "We
work from seven in the morning to nine or 10 at night to get the
wheat harvested."

Esper said his father, Mike, is more of a believer in the
unexplainable, so his family has been joking with him about
waiting for the visitors to take him away. If the circles are
the work of pranksters, he doesn't expect them to come forward
and solve the mystery.

Jim Berry, whose property ends just feet from the smaller
circle, attributed the circle to deer or turkeys - until he
walked out and saw it. "That is odd," he said.

He said he hasn't heard or seen anything strange recently.


[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 29

             Re: MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Case - Ticchetti

From: Thiago L. Ticchetti <thiagolt@opengate.com.br>
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:01:04 -0300
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:06:31 -0400
Subject: Re: MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Case - Ticchetti


>From: A. J. Gevaerd <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>;
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>;
>Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 07:15:05 -0300
>Subject: Re: No MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Case

>>From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>;
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>;
>>Subject: No MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Case
>>Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 23:57:12 -0500

>>MUFON UFO Journal July 2003
>>Directors Message
>>Reproduced with permission

>>NO MUFON Endorsement

>>By John F. Schuessler
>>MUFON International Director

>I couldn't expect nothing less from Mr. Schuessler. MUFON
>finally took a position in this case. Now it is just a matter of
>time for LMH to realize that she had applied too much good
>energy and time in a very bad case.


I would like to congratulate MUFON for the position taking with
relationship to the Urandir case. Once again we can see the
seriousness of the organization. We, Brazilian ufologists, that
since from the beginning fought to expose that fraud, without
never to want to warm Linda - and always warning her, are very
satisfied. We showed that Brazilian ufology is serious, have
competent and honest people and that would never take advantage
of an unreal fact to win some fame.

Thank you MUFON and good work for us brazilians ufologists.

--
Thiago Luiz Ticchetti
Vice-Presidente EBE-ET - Brasilia/DF
International Coordinator UFO Magazine Brazil






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 29

                     Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was - Morris

From: Neil Morris <neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:48:57 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:15:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was - Morris


>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 12:25:25 +0200
>Subject: Mogul 4 That Never Was

Hi Gildas,

Can I make some comments that spring to mind re your piece.

>To All,

>I think it is about time to come back to the question of wether
>the Mogul 4 balloon train was flown or not.

I think it's well proven that "a flight" of some sort was made
all be it _not_ an official fully rigged out "Mogul" flight as
per those recorded in the official flight log.

We are left to speculate just what it comprised of _but_ we do
know from what range of equipment available it could have
comprised due to the detailed logs and flight drawings of the
equipment used on the other flights in the project.

>After having read
>carefully the books of Charles Moore and Karl Pflock ,and having
>leafed through the 1,000 pages USAF Roswell Report, I seems more
>and more obvious to me that what Brazel found on the Foster
>ranch on June 14 was not the Mogul 4 ballloon train but a more
>modest cluster of metorological balloons with one or several
>radar targets of the famous model ML-307B, the one with flowered
>tape.

We could have a problem here, what were the most common uses of
meteorological balloons by your everyday air base weather
station?. I think you may find it _didn't_ readily involve many
radar reflectors.

On an hourly basis a simple gas filled "pilot" balloon would be
released and normally tracked by optical theodolite for wind
direction/altitude/rate of ascent readings.

Period (c1950) picture here from the NOAA archives:

http://www.photolib.noaa.gov/historic/nws/images/wea01122.jpg

On a less frequent schedule radiosonde launches would be made
which took and returned by radio, a whole range of meteo
measurements as the sonde ascended. Again period picture from
the NOAA archives c1944, but it also shows just how well marked
the sonde boxes were so that after their decent via parachute
and hopefully found, they could be returned often for a small
reward.

http://www.photolib.noaa.gov/historic/nws/images/wea01118.jpg

The radiosonde launches _didn't_ need radar reflectors as they
were very accurately tracked by specialised radio direction
finder receivers which gave real time plots of both azimuth and
elevation, some could also automatically track the sonde in
flight. c1945-46 picture here:

http://www.photolib.noaa.gov/historic/nws/images/wea01200.jpg

We know from family members Mack Brazel _had_ found balloons
before on the ranch and identified them as such. The MOGUL team
were using _std_ meteo balloon equipment to make their launches,
equipment Mack had previously successfully identified as such,
so we must therefore conclude the debris he came across that
July must have been significantly different from what he had
previously found to give him concern and thought.

>The basic facts are:

>Brazel stated in his interview published in the Roswell Daily
>Record, that he had found on June 14 "considerable scotch tape
>and some tape with flowers printed upon it" This is not
>perfectly clear, but we have to admit that he most probably
>described one or several radar targets with flowered tape. But
>what if he found, not the Mogul 4 train, but a meteorological
>balloon cluster ?

The "flower tape" was _not_ a standard feature of the ML307, it
came up in the Roswell Report because it was put forward that
the NYU team were using "manufacturer's samples" to try and
explain away the noted symbols and pass off the ML307's as if
they were a new, little seen design. Is this the case?  If you
check the drawings as per the USAAF Roswell Report you will find
the Army Signal Corp engineering drawings are dated 1944. I have
to ask would "manufacturer's samples" _still_ be circulating
3yrs on down the line?, and remembered these targets were made
in the thousands, neatly folded and boxed in 20's, they were
_not_ rare, but a std stores item.

<snip>

>Karl Pflock is more precise in the description (page 148): "The
>meteorological flights were clusters of three to seven neoprene
>sounding balloons lifting a string of three to five ML-307B
>radar-reflecting targets linked together one above the other,
>like a very large kite tail".

>He also mentions that Moore "used multiple targets because he
>found the radar-signal return from a single target was too faint
>to be useful" (quote from interviews in 1993).

>Charles Moore insists in his book that only NYU used the model
>ML-307B, with flowered tape. The stock was in the North hangar
>at Alamogordo and only the NYU team had access to it.

If Moore is correct then, and _if_ he's positive it was the
ML307_B_ type they used then these _were_ _not_ samples or
"special" prototypes as the type "B" revision to the ML307 was
made in Nov 1944 some 4-5 _months_ _after_ the original design
was introduced.

The type "B" was the _std_ model in production from late 1944
through to 1951 when the type "C" modifications were made, check
the drawings for this info and the (very minor) modifications
made.

>Captain Smith, of the Army Air Force weather service, used
>regular ML-307 targets (pages 112 and 113). But what about
>Albert Crary?

The type "B" _was_ the regular model in 1947 and had been
since late 1944.

>Moore himself notes that "Crary had the use of a hangar in the
>north area" (page 82). It seems obvious that Crary used the same
>equipment as NYU for testing the NYU launchings.

>Another critical point is that Brazel described a rather small
>amount of balloon debris: about 5 pounds, some 10% of the total
>weight of a Mogul balloon train (25 kg for Mogul 5). Moore
>admits that "about four of five of the balloon -and-target
>combinations could have been required." (page 110). And Brazel
>did not find any of the equipments of a Mogul train (page 108).
>This is easily explained if we admit that, as stated by Crary,
>there was no Mogul 4 launching!

There was no "official" flight 4 but there is every reason to
believe a launch of sorts did take place as a "proving"
exercise, as such it may not have carried a "live" payload just
ballast and the radar reflectors so the tracking setup could
have a "shakedown" on a real target, no chase plane followed the
flight as the cloud cover which cancelled the original flight
precluded any visual tracking of the train from the air.

>In short, we have many reasons to suppose that Brazel found a
>modest cluster of balloons, with ML-307B targets. What are the
>consequences ?

>The idea that the Air Force officers of Roswell could have
>mistaken that for a "flying disk" becomes even more uncredible
>than in the case of a "huge" balloon train. All they had to do
>was to break one ot the balsa sticks to understand what kind of
>material they had.

Indeed, but remember Mack had recovered "pilot" type balloons
before, a balloon is a balloon is a balloon...even when burst
and there's a lot of them. As for the ML307's they were after
all just sticks and paper backed foil, _and_ they also had "ML-
307-B /AP" stamped or stencilled on them in 1" letters!, it was
part of the Signal Corp design spec and hardly miss able!!.

>The idea that the cover-up was decided to protect the top secret
>Mogul project falls down. On the contrary, the idea that the
>cover-up was decided to hide the discovery of a flying disk is
>reinforced.

The "MOGUL" project was secret _but_ the NYU's part of it was
_not_. It was merely a normal DOD defense research contract to
produce a stable high altitude platform, it was what was to be
 ultimately used on that platform and it's goal that was the Top
Secret part.

>Besides, the discussion about the hypothetical Mogul 4 flight
>becomes somewhat irrelevant. The flight parameters of a simple
>cluster without the Mogul equipment would be different from
>those of Mogul 5 which Moore used as a model. However, the
>testimony of Brazel implies that he did find a balloon cluster
>on the ranch.

Mack's interview with the RDR is highly suspect, after he left
the RDR office Mack (and a military escort) called into radio
station KGFL to see Frank Joyce and retract his earlier story,
he tells Joyce his find was nothing more than a weather balloon,
but as he leaves he made two enigmatic remarks, one that what he
had seen "wasn't any weather balloon" and the second, after
Joyce's prompt about "little green men", that "they weren't
green". Joyce notes that Mack is accompanied by a couple of
military men who wait for Mack in the radio stations lobby.

Joyce recalled all this took place some time after sunset,
sunset in July in Roswell is around 8pm.

>So, this seems to be is an important issue, and I would like to
>know if there is any serious argument to the contrary.


An off record "proving flight" launched by the NYU could very
well have come down on the Foster Ranch, other documented
flights did come down in that area.

But the flight's components could hardly be mistaken for
anything else other than what they were, neoprene rubber, paper
backed foil and wooden sticks!. Then there is also the problem
of quantity, even if we take Mack's suspect statement to the
RDR, he claims there that he found the debris in an area some
200 yrds across. If you sit down and work out just what amount
of material(foil, rubber etc) was involved in an NYU balloon
train there just isn't enough material there to spread over even
this small area to make an impression, and we've not even
considered Marcel's much larger description of the debris field.
We also know from statements the Sheriff's Dept made to UP wire
service that Mack described at least one piece of debris as
metallic and as big as the Sheriff's safe, the safe was 3' x 4'
x 3'!. I don't think anything of that size and nature ever flew
on any MOGUL flight that I know of.


Best Regards

Neil









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 29

                       UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 28

From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:37:39 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:20:35 -0400
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 28


Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor.

<Masinaigan@aol.com>
==========================

      UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 8, Number 28
July 30, 2003
Editor: Joseph Trainor

E-mail: <Masinaigan@aol.com>
Website: http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/


NEW CATTLE MUTILATIONS
REPORTED IN ARGENTINA

      "Veterinarian Dr. Carlos Alberto Montobbio, in the
company of eight witnesses, including Enrique Sanchez, his
wife Julia and his son Frederico" visited a ranch near
Choele Choel in Rio Negro province, Argentina "where a
calf two years old was found dead and mutilated."
      According to the newspaper Diario Rio Negro, "the
incident took place on the estancia El Gualeguay (ranch),
property of Sr. Ferrarino Arsenio, located 60 kilometers
(36 miles) from the city of Choele Choel," located about
400 kilometers (250 miles) southwest of Buenos Aires, the
national capital.
      "The dead animal had many strange lesions on its
right side and was missing its tongue, right eye, lower
jaw, part of the udder and also the rectum and sexual
organs.  The cuts on the calf's body were geometrically
perfect and cauterized."
      "The calf is believed to have been killed on (Monday)
July 14 (2003)."
      In the neighboring province of La Pampa, "on
Wednesday, July 16 (2003), three calves and a cow were
found mutilated in fields adjacent to" the city of General
Acha, located 200 kilometers (120 miles) north of Choele
Choel.
      "'Until one sees it, or it happens to (one's animals-
-S.C.), one doesn't believe it,' said a cattleman, whose
property is located some 30 kilometers (18 miles) from
General Acha and who asked" the newspaper El Diario de la
Pampa "to keep his identity confidential."
      "The cattleman said that on (Wednesday) July 16
(2003) "'two calves and a 'masked' calf, weighing some 200
kilograms each, were found mutilated 500 meters (0.3
miles) away from his home in a flat open field.  The males
were missing an eye, an ear and their tongues, while the
female had its nipples sheared off with surgical
precision,' he noted, betraying his surprise when he said,
'when we found them, they were still issuing some sort of
smoke or vapor from their carcasses, as though recently
dead.'"
      "'All of the animals had their heads pointed
southwards,' he pointed out, noting that he was 'certain
that the animals had been alive the previous evening.'"
      "'We did not dare get close to them or touch them,
but on the fourth day (Sunday, July 20, 2003) no animal
predator, fox or chimango (vulture--G.C.) came close,' he
said."
      "Finally, the confused cattleman said, 'We plucked up
our courage, put them together and burned them.'"
      "Another cattleman who told a similar story explained
that the very same Wednesday 'a very docile cow that was
near the house vanished, and was later found two sections
away from where it normally grazed.'"
      "The livestock farmer explained that 'these are 200-
hectare pastures' and that the mutilations on the cow are
similar to those which had been reported on so many
occasions."
      "He added that, in this case, 'the cow was very
docile and would have never jumped over the barbed-wire
fences that divide the three sections, because the gates
were properly closed and no fence was broken."
      "In both cases, livestock farmers indicated that they
did not file reports with the police or the courts, since
they indicated that such reports would not be taken
seriously."  (See the Argentinian newspapers Diario Rio
Negro for July 24, 2003 and Diario de la Pampa for July
24, 2003, "More mutilated cattle in La Pampa."  Muchas
gracias a Scott Corrales, Gloria Coluchi, Norberto Mollo y
Juan Jose Mecchi para eses articulos de diario.)


LUMINOUS UFOs SIGHTED
IN SOUTHERN BRAZIL

      On Sunday, July 20, 2003, well after sunset, Chandall
Romao was at his home in the bairro Pilarzinho
(neighborhood) in Curitiba, capital of the state of Parana
in southern Brazil, when "for the third night in a row, I
noticed strange lights hovering in the sky.  Their
movements were rectilinear, quite unlike the space
satellites that are tracked by CINDACTA (Brazil's NORAD--
J.T.)."
      "The lights rose and descended, moving rapidly from
their unusual flight path to a stationary position
instantly, followed by new movements up and down, then
followed by circular movements through the sky, all
realized at extremely high velocities."
      Romao added, "Today (Sunday, July 20, 2003) the
lights appeared for more than 30 minutes, making a
rotating movement, and they appeared again two hours later
for another 10 minutes."  (See Macrocosmo for July 21,
2003.  Muito obrigado a Gilberto Sousa e Brunilda Barros
por eso caso.)


UFOs RETURN TO FRANCE

      On Saturday, July 19, 2003, at 11:45 p.m., Mr.
Brainerd and seven other British and American tourists
were standing outdoors in a garden near Vallon, in the
department of Ardeche, 80 kilometers (50 miles) northwest
of Avignon, in southern France.  While they chatted, Mr.
Brainerd reported, "A UFO approached from the south.
Bright object, similar to a star or moving satellite but
brighter and faster.  Travelling fast high in the sky.
Eight English and American witnesses saw the object travel
fast, stop dead, change direction, travel fast again, stop
dead, and change direction again, and then race off
towards the horizon to the north.  Its speed and agility
were beyond belief.  Total time in the sky maybe 40
seconds.  We were all dumbfounded and perplexed by this
phenomenon."
      The next day, Sunday, July 20, 2003, he added, "in
Strasbourg, a few hundred kilometers to the northeast,
over 100 young people at a party reported seeing a strange
moving light."  But the French media "put the report down
as mass hysteria."  (Email Form Report)


MYSTERY LIGHTS AWE MANY
IN WORCESTERSHIRE, UK

      "Strange flashing lights in the sky above
Worcestershire" in UK "have caused speculation that the
county was visited by aliens."
      "A BBC cameraman spotted three bright lights in the
sky over the Malverns, near the village of Hanbury, Worcs.
on Tuesday," July 22, 2003, "and filmed them with a video
camera."
      "Some thought it could have been flares."
      "But cameraman Tom Hines, who works on the BBC drama
(TV) series Doctors , said he is convinced it was a UFO."
      "'I kind of saw two bright lights and thought they
were stars at first,' he said."
      "'I pointed out where they were and started filming.
They started disappearing and reappearing, and at one
point there were three bright lights.'"
      "'They kept appearing very randomly in different
areas of the sky.'"
      "John Dawson, who lives in Hanbury, also saw the
lights."
      "'We went through all sorts of evaluations, like
could they be fireworks, could they be flares, and, to be
honest with you, couldn't come to any decision as to what
they were.'"
      "BBC Midland Today's science correspondent David
Gregory has examined the tape and has spoken to local UFO
experts.  He said, 'It could have been the Hanbury Orbs,
which are a series of lights which are known to hover
above the landscape in this area.  But nobody knows for
sure.'"  (See BBC News for July 23, 2003.  Many thanks to
Martin Montague for forwarding this report.)
(Editor's Note:  There are several "mystery lights"
similar to the Hanbury Orbs around the world.  Two notable
examples are the "Chinati Mountain spook lights" in Marfa,
Texas, USA and the green "spook light" of Ramadi, in
western Iraq.)


CROP CIRCLES APPEAR IN
SOUTHERN ONTARIO

      Canada's first known crop circle formation of 2003
"was found on Wednesday, July 23, near Stewarttown,
Ontario."
      "Preliminary photos are of a large ringed circle,
with two other circles attached, in a field of wheat.
Centre circle is approximately 16.5 metres (54 feet) in
diameter, with a surrounding ring approximately 32 metres
(106 feet) in diameter, and the two attached circles are
approximately 16 metres (52 feet) and 13.5 metres (44
feet) in diameter."
      "Similar crop circles were found at Georgetown and
Limehouse, Ontario in 2002."
      "Some preliminary details noted already from an
initial investigation by CCCRN Ontario coordinator Joanna
Emery include smaller/stretched stalk nodes, a small fly
or fly-like insect seemingly 'stuck' to a cloverleaf plant
by its head and added 'splays' of 'randomly downed
appearing crop' in all the circles, as well as a small
'grapeshot' splay nearby, suggesting again that there may
be a connection in some cases between circular or
geometric formations and random ones."
      "The lay in all circles and ring was
counterclockwise."  (Many thanks to Paul Anderson of
Canadian Crop Circles Research Network, CCCRN, for this
report.)


UDAY AND QUSAY BUY IT
IN NORTHERN IRAQ

      "Saddam Hussein's sons Uday and Qusay were killed
Tuesday," July 22, 2003, during an intense gun battle with
U.S. soldiers who raided a villa" in an upscale
neighborhood in the city of Mosul, "where they were
staying after receiving a tip from an informant, the top
U.S. military commander in Iraq said."
      "Qusay Hussein, 37, the heir apparent who led Iraq's
Special Republican Guard, and Udai Hussein, 39, a playboy
and publisher who commanded the Fedayeen Saddam militia,
died during the six-hour military operation in Mosul" 432
kilometers (270 miles) north of Baghdad.
      "'We are certain that Uday and Qusay were killed
today,' Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez said."
      "A U.S. official said a bodyguard and a teenaged boy
believed to be one of Saddam Hussein's grandsons also were
killed in the gunfight."
      According to Ayesha al-Khatabi, UFO Roundup's Middle
East correspondent, the boy was Mustafa Qusay Hussein al-
Tikriti, age 14, the son of Qusay, "who was known to
travel constantly with his father."
      "Pentagon officials gave this account: After
receiving a tip from an Iraqi resident (the villa's owner
Nawaf al-Zaydan Muhammad--A.K.) troops from the 101st
Airborne Division and Task Force 20, a secret special
operations team" composed of U.S. Army Special Forces and
CIA agents "charged with hunting down members of" Saddam
Hussein's regime, "raided the mansion in the al-Falah
neighborhood" on the northeast side of Mosul.
      "Four U.S. soldiers were wounded, and two other
Iraqis were killed in the attack."
      "Forensic tests, including DNA sampling, were
conducted on the bodies believed to be Uday and Qusay
after they were flown out of the area.  Abid Hamid Mahmud
al-Tikriti, Saddam's presidential secretary (who was
captured June 16, 2003--J.T.) and "who is now in U.S.
custody, helped identify them."
      "When a small contingent of (U.S.) soldiers arrived
in the neighborhood about 9 a.m. Tuesday," July 22, 2003,
"residents said they expected a routine weapons search.
After occupants of the" yellow and maroon-tiled villa
"refused to let the soldiers inside, the patrol withdrew
and called for reinforcements.  An hour later, dozens of
soldiers surrounded the house."
      "Army Psychological Operations (PSYOPS) soldiers
speaking in Arabic and using loudspeakers asked whether
any women or children were inside and ordered everyone to
come out."
      Nawaf al-Zaydan "Muhammad and his son were seen
walking out with their hands on their heads.  No one
followed.  After five minutes, witnesses said, the
shooting began.  Military officials said people in the
villa shot first.  Area residents said U.S. troops were
first to shoot.  All agree, however, that it was a
ferocious fight."
      Soldiers from the 101st Airborne Division entered the
house at 10:10 a.m. "and came under fire from men
barricaded in a fortified section upstairs.  They
retreated.  Four soldiers were wounded, three on a
staircase and one outside."
      At 10:15 a.m., "Coalition forces called for heavier
firepower, including helicopters and Humvees." Uday,
Qusay, Mustafa and the fourth unidentified Iraqi bodyguard
continued firing from upstairs windows.
      At 12 noon, U.S. "soldiers tried to enter the house a
second time but came under fire and withdrew."
      Half an hour later, at 12:30 p.m., Brig. Gen. Frank
Helmick, assistant commander of the 101st Airborne, had
missile launchers delivered to the villa.  Two Kiowa
helicopters were also sent to the scene.  "The helicopters
fired rockets and at least one missile at the upper floors
of the house, sparking a fire that destroyed much of the
structure."
      "Three Iraqis were killed in the bathroom, which is
just behind the second-floor balcony," Ayesha reported,
"The fourth was killed in the bedroom located at the rear
of the house, just behind the bathroom."
      At 1:21 p.m., U.S. "soldiers entered the house again.
The only survivor shot at U.S. soldiers.  He was killed in
the bedroom."
      "The neighborhood was definitely friendly to Saddam
Hussein," Ayesha reported. "Nawaf al-Zaydan claimed to be
a cousin of Saddam.  Umm Yahya, a woman who lives on the
same street, said people were coming and going all the
time."
      Uday and Qusay moved into the villa on Tuesday, July
1, 2003.  Both men were frequently seen in the
neighborhood.  "Mahmood Fawzi, 23, a computer engineer who
lives three blocks from the villa, said his sister told
him last Tuesday," July 15, 2003, "that she saw Qusay
driving a gray BMW with Tikrit license plates."
      "We thought it was a joke," Fawzi said.
      The Kiowa helicopters heavily damaged another house,
located directly behind the villa, belonging to Abdul
Jawad Saleh, 45, a former Iraqi Air Force general, and his
wife, Yamana Abdul Wahab, 42.  "Almost every window in
their house had been shattered and every wall cracked."
      While anti-Saddam Iraqis in Baghdad fired guns in the
air and danced in the streets to celebrate the brothers'
demise, residents of Mosul hailed the pair as shahidi,
martyrs for Islam.
      "'It was a beautiful resistance.  They fought for
four hours and almost defeated the Americans,' said
Mohammed Ahmad, 35, a government worker who witnessed the
firefight."
      "'These are martyrs.  They went to paradise,' said
Muhammad Ibrahim, 35, a farmer from a rural area 60 miles
(100 kilometers) south of Mosul, who came to the site
after hearing the news on TV.  'The Americans are
heathens.  We sympathize with our Muslim brothers.'"
      On Thursday, July 24, 2003, U.S. Defense Secretary
Donald Rumsfeld authorized the release of photographs of
Uday and Qusay.  They were first aired on the Al-Jazeera
cable TV network and then on CNN and other networks.
      "The photos are graphic.  The dead men are shown
against the backdrop of a sheet and what appears to be a
military body bag.  Both had grown bushy beards since last
being seen in public before the Iraq war began in mid-
March.  Qusay, the younger of the two brothers at 37, had
bruises and blood spatter and purpling around his eyelids.
Uday, 39, had a gash that ran from his right eye to the
corner of his mouth."
      But if Rumsfeld's release of the photos was supposed
to settle doubts that Saddam's sons were truly dead, it
didn't work.  The photos became the source of an intense
debate throughout Iraq.
      "Alla Khalifa, a barber, said the tall, angular Uday
looked short and pudgy in his postmortem photo.  He said
he doubted the pictures were authentic."
      "Most troubling is the photo of a bearded Qusay,"
Ayesha al-Khatabi added, "Qusay appeared with his father,
Saddam Hussein, in the April 17 (2003) videotape.  This
was the first appearance of Saddam after the fall of
Baghdad.  In this video, Qusay is clearly visible beside
his father, who is wearing the mysterious golden necklace.
Qusay has his moustache but his chin is clean-shaven.  In
the death photo, the one they say is Qusay has a full
beard that would have taken six months to grow.  But April
17 was only three months ago."
      "As soon as the pictures of Uday and Qusay Hussein
appeared on the television screen tonight, arguments
erupted in the Zein Barbershop" in downtown Baghdad.
      "The pictures of the two bodies were closely
scrutinized in the barbershop, the customers a mixture of
Muslims and Christians.  There was whistling and a
clucking of tongues when the photos appeared on the main 9
p.m. newscast."
      "The arguments began raging immediately, reflecting
all the rumors and skepticism with which Iraqis filter any
announcement from their new rulers."
      "'In a few days they will show us another fat body
with a beard and say it's Saddam,' said Zohair Maty, a 30-
year-old laborer.  'Everyone says they are in Spain.'"
      "'From the features on their face, I would say it was
them,'" barber Atheer Odeish said.  "Then, zeroing in on
the face of Qusay, he added, 'His ear doesn't seem like
it's the same.  If it had been me, I would've shaved their
beards before showing them to the public to convince
them.'"
      "Also, Qusay has thicker lips than the bearded man in
the photo," Ayesha added, "My friend Hiba Rashid and her
family have heard these rumors about Saddam fleeing to
Spain.  Joe, do you know if there is an underground alien
base in Spain similar to the rumored one at Al-Ouja?"
(Editor's Comment:  According to local legend, the aliens
have a large underground base inside Mount Moncayo, near
Zaragoza.  See UFO Roundup, volume 5, number 1 for January
6, 2000, "1815: Spain's mysterious Mount Moncayo," page 8)
      The UFO community in the Middle East has been
following events very closely because of the brothers'
reputed involvement with the Zarzi aliens,
extraterrestrials said to be friends of Saddam Hussein.
      According to Mohammed Daud al-Hayyat, rumor has it
that a UFO crashed in Iraq during an Allied air raid in
December 1998.  Saddam Hussein granted the surviving
aliens sanctuary and allowed them to stay at the old
fortress of Qalaat-e-Julundi, near Zarzi in the Little Zab
River valley south of Mosul.
      On April 7, 2003, Saddam, Uday, Qusay and a handful
of aides entered a house in Mansur, an affluent suburb on
the west side of Baghdad.  A U.S. Air Force bomber
launched a cruise missile, which demolished the house 12
minutes later.  The Iraqis were not seen leaving the
premises.
      The "miraculous escape" of Saddam and his sons on
this occasion has everyone in Iraq puzzled. Mohammed said
the aliens "appeared at the Mansur house while the
American bomber was enroute.  They shone the mysterious
beam at the wall, and once again the circle of light or
portal" was created.  "Saddam, Uday, Qusay and Abid
Hammoud stepped into it, followed by the aliens.  And then
they vanished."
      "When Saddam emerged from the circle of light, he
found himself at the underground base in Al-Ouja," just
north of Tikrit.  Saddam "discussed the situation with the
aliens.  Uday was very loud and angry.  He demanded that
the aliens give his father Drona Parva weapons so they
could strike directly at America.  The aliens ignored
him."
(Editor's Note:  The Drona Parva is a book of the Hindu
epic Mahabharata, which describes energy weapons of
fantastic power.)
      "Where were Uday and Qusay during May and June,
before they arrived at the house of Nawaf al-Zaydan?"
Mohammed asked, "Were they hiding at the base in Al-Ouja?
Or did they briefly travel to the moon?"
      Mohammed thinks it "possible" that there "were more
than four people in the villa.  An hour passed between the
Americans' first arrival (9 a.m.) and the commencement of
the shooting (10 a.m.).  It could have been Mansur all
over again.  Uday or Qusay could have contacted the
aliens.  If the circle of light appeared on the bedroom
wall, they could have stepped through and teleported to
safety, leaving behind their bodyguards and the boy."
      "I have seen the death photos," he added, "If there
was a fire, then why were the dead men's faces not burned?
If the bald one is Uday, then he has been eating well
since the war ended...wherever he was!"  (See the
Minneapolis, Minn. Star-Tribune for July 23, 2003,
"Saddam's sons killed in raid," page 1; the Chicago
Tribune for July 23, 2003, "U.S. says Hussein sons killed
in Iraq firefight, pages 1 and 4; USA Today for July 23,
2003, "Saddam's sons killed in Iraq after raid, 'fierce'
firefight," pages 1A, 8A and 9A; USA Today for July 24,
2003, "Saddam sons called 'martyrs,' page 7A; USA Today
for July 25, 2003, "U.S. defends release of pictures,"
page 10A; and the New York Times for July 25, 2003,
"Debating matters of life and death in a Baghdad
barbershop," page A10.  Many thanks to Ayesha al-Khatabi,
Mohammed Daud al-Hayyat, Mohammed Haj al-Amdar, Mahmoud
al-Diwaniyahi, Kahmis Mahudi al-Khanaqini and others for
these reports.  For more on the Zarzi aliens and the
escape from Mansur, see UFO Roundup, volume 8, number 16
for April 16, 2003, "Gone in sixty seconds--Saddam fled
Iraq in a cylindrical UFO?" page 1.)

      That's it for this week.  Join us next time for more
UFO, Fortean and paranormal news from around the planet
Earth, brought to you by "the paper that goes home--UFO
Roundup."  See you in seven days.

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2003 by Masinaigan Productions, all
rights reserved.  Readers may post news items from UFO
Roundup on their Web sites or in news groups provided that
they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list
the date of issue in which the item first appeared.

E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com>
or use the Sighting Report Form at:

http://www.ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Website comments: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>

UFOINFO: http://www.ufoinfo.com

Official Archives of UFO Roundup, AUFORN Australian
UFO Reports and Experiences, UFO + PSI Magazine, plus
archives of Filer's Files, Oz Files, UFO News UK and
UFO Sightings Italia.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
UFO Roundup is only sent to subscribers.
If you wish to unsubscribe or feel you have received
the bulletin in error, please write to:

  <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>

With the subject: Unsubscribe UFO Roundup.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 29

             Re: No MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Case - Groff

From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 10:04:27 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:22:58 -0400
Subject: Re: No MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Case - Groff


>From: Charlette LeFevre <clefevre@oz.net>
>To: Virtually Strange <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 00:20:47 -0700
>Subject: Re: No MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Case

>>From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Subject: No MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Case
>>Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 23:57:12 -0500

>>MUFON UFO Journal July 2003
>>Directors Message
>>Reproduced with permission

>>NO MUFON Endorsement

>>By John F. Schuessler
>>MUFON International Director

>Now I'm even more confused by MUFON.

>MUFON "non-endorses" the Brazilian Oliveira case it technically
>endorsed by presenting at the last minute a one-sided view at
>their much publicized annual Symposium?

MUFON will have a full article about this case in the August
2003 issue of the MUFON Journal. Perhaps at that time Mr.
Schuessler will allow me to reproduce it here.

It seems to me that MUFON allowed the presentation of a case by
the only person who actually investigated it. Good or bad, LMH
was the only person to do so. However this does not mean that
MUFON endorses the claims by Howe. Obviously they don't.


Terry







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 29

                     The Truth And The Hype Of Hypnosis

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 22:08:12 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 22:08:12 -0400
Subject: The Truth And The Hype Of Hypnosis




Source: Scientific American Magazine

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?ep=3D1&refep=3Dhome&articleID=
=3D0008D31F-BD5B-1C6F-84A9809EC588EF21

July 2001 issue


The Truth And The Hype Of Hypnosis

Though often denigrated as fakery or wishful thinking, hypnosis
has been shown to be a real phenomenon with a variety of
therapeutic uses - especially in controlling pain

By Michael R. Nash

"You are getting sleepy. Verrry sleepy ..."

A waistcoated man swings his pocket watch back and forth before
the face of a young woman seated in a Victorian-era parlor. She
fixes her gaze on the watch, tracking its pendular motion with
her eyes. Moments later she is slumped in her chair, eyes
closed, answering the hypnotist's questions in a zombielike
monotone.

Everyone has seen a depiction of hypnosis similar to this one in
movies and on television. Indeed, say the word "hypnosis," and
many people immediately think of pocket watches. But it is now
much more common for hypnotists simply to ask a subject to stare
at a small, stationary object--such as a colored thumbtack on
the wall--during the "induction patter," which usually consists
of soothing words about relaxation and suggestions to
concentrate.

Only in the past 40 years have scientists been equipped with
instruments and methods for discerning the facts of hypnosis
from exaggerated claims. But the study of hypnotic phenomena is
now squarely in the domain of normal cognitive science, with
papers on hypnosis published in some of the most selective
scientific and medical journals. Of course, spectacles such as
"stage hypnosis" for entertainment purposes have not
disappeared. But the new findings reveal how, when used
properly, the power of hypnotic suggestion can alter cognitive
processes as diverse as memory and pain perception.

But is hypnosis a real phenomenon? If so, what is it useful for?


Wheat from the Chaff

Over the past few years, researchers have found that hypnotized
individuals actively respond to suggestions even though they
sometimes perceive the dramatic changes in thought and behavior
they experience as happening "by themselves." During hypnosis,
it is as though the brain temporarily suspends its attempts to
authenticate incoming sensory information. Some people are more
hypnotizable than others, although scientists still don't know
why. Nevertheless, hypnosis is finding medical uses in
controlling chronic pain, in countering anxiety and even--in
combination with conventional operating-room procedures--in
helping patients to recover more quickly from outpatient
surgery.

To study any phenomenon properly, researchers must first have a
way to measure it. In the case of hypnosis, that yardstick is
the Stanford Hypnotic Susceptibility Scales. The Stanford
scales, as they are often called, were devised in the late 1950s
by Stanford University psychologists Andr=E9 M. Weitzenhoffer and
Ernest R. Hilgard and are still used today to determine the
extent to which a subject responds to hypnosis. One version of
the Stanford scales, for instance, consists of a series of 12
activities--such as holding one's arm outstretched or sniffing
the contents of a bottle--that test the depth of the hypnotic
state. In the first instance, individuals are told that they are
holding a very heavy ball, and they are scored as "passing" that
suggestion if their arm sags under the imagined weight. In the
second case, subjects are told that they have no sense of smell,
and then a vial of ammonia is waved under their nose. If they
have no reaction, they are deemed very responsive to hypnosis;
if they grimace and recoil, they are not.

Scoring on the Stanford scales ranges from 0, for individuals
who do not respond to any of the hypnotic suggestions, to 12,
for those who pass all of them. Most people score in the middle
range (between 5 and 7); 95 percent of the population receives a
score of at least 1.


What Hypnosis Is

Based on studies using the Stanford scales, researchers with
very different theoretical perspectives now agree on several
fundamental principles of hypnosis. The first is that a person's
ability to respond to hypnosis is remarkably stable during
adulthood. In perhaps the most compelling illustration of this
tenet, a study showed that when retested, Hilgard's original
subjects had roughly the same scores on the Stanford scales as
they did 10, 15 or 25 years earlier. Studies have shown that an
individual's Stanford score remains as consistent over time as
his or her IQ score--if not more so. In addition, evidence
indicates that hypnotic responsiveness may have a hereditary
component: identical twins are more likely than same-sex
fraternal twins to have similar Stanford scores.

A person's responsiveness to hypnosis also remains fairly
consistent regardless of the characteristics of the hypnotist:
the practitioner's gender, age and experience have little or no
effect on a subject's ability to be hypnotized. Similarly, the
success of hypnosis does not depend on whether a subject is
highly motivated or especially willing. A very responsive
subject will become hypnotized under a variety of experimental
conditions and therapeutic settings, whereas a less susceptible
person will not, despite his or her sincere efforts. (Negative
attitudes and expectations can, however, interfere with
hypnosis.)

Several studies have also shown that hypnotizability is
unrelated to personality characteristics such as gullibility,
hysteria, psychopathology, trust, aggressiveness,
submissiveness, imagination or social compliance. The trait has,
however, been linked tantalizingly with an individual's ability
to become absorbed in activities such as reading, listening to
music or daydreaming.

Under hypnosis, subjects do not behave as passive automatons but
instead are active problem solvers who incorporate their moral
and cultural ideas into their behavior while remaining
exquisitely responsive to the expectations expressed by the
experimenter. Nevertheless, the subject does not experience
hypnotically suggested behavior as something that is actively
achieved. To the contrary, it is typically deemed as effortless-
-as something that just happens. People who have been hypnotized
often say things like "My hand became heavy and moved down by
itself" or "Suddenly I found myself feeling no pain."

Many researchers now believe that these types of disconnections
are at the heart of hypnosis. In response to suggestion,
subjects make movements without conscious intent, fail to detect
exceedingly painful stimulation or temporarily forget a familiar
fact. Of course, these kinds of things also happen outside
hypnosis--occasionally in day-to-day life and more dramatically
in certain psychiatric and neurological disorders.

Using hypnosis, scientists have temporarily created
hallucinations, compulsions, certain types of memory loss, false
memories, and delusions in the laboratory so that these
phenomena can be studied in a controlled environment.


What Hypnosis Isn't

As scientists discover more about hypnosis, they are also
uncovering evidence that counters some of the skepticism about
the technique. One such objection is that hypnosis is simply a
matter of having an especially vivid imagination. In fact, this
does not seem to be the case. Many imaginative people are not
good hypnotic subjects, and no relation between the two
abilities has surfaced.

The imagination charge stems from the fact that many people who
are hypnotizable can be led to experience compellingly realistic
auditory and visual hallucinations. But an elegant study using
positron emission tomography (PET), which indirectly measures
metabolism, has shown that different regions of the brain are
activated when a subject is asked to imagine a sound than when
he or she is hallucinating under hypnosis.

In 1998 Henry Szechtman of McMaster University in Ontario and
his co-workers used PET to image the brain activity of
hypnotized subjects who were invited to imagine a scenario and
who then experienced a hallucination. The researchers noted that
an auditory hallucination and the act of imagining a sound are
both self-generated and that, like real hearing, a hallucination
is experienced as coming from an external source. By monitoring
regional blood flow in areas activated during both hearing and
auditory hallucination but not during simple imagining, the
investigators sought to determine where in the brain a
hallucinated sound is mistakenly "tagged" as authentic and
originating in the outside world.

Szechtman and his colleagues imaged the brain activity of eight
very hypnotizable subjects who had been prescreened for their
ability to hallucinate under hypnosis. During the session, the
subjects were under hypnosis and lay in the PET scanner with
their eyes covered. Their brain activity was monitored under
four conditions: at rest; while hearing an audiotape of a voice
saying, "The man did not speak often, but when he did, it was
worth hearing what he had to say"; while imagining hearing the
voice again; and during the auditory hallucination they
experienced after being told that the tape was playing once
more, although it was not.

The tests showed that a region of the brain called the right
anterior cingulate cortex was just as active while the
volunteers were hallucinating as it was while they were actually
hearing the stimulus. In contrast, that brain area was not
active while the subjects were imagining that they heard the
stimulus. Somehow hypnosis had tricked this area of the brain
into registering the hallucinated voice as real.

Another objection raised by critics of hypnosis concerns its
ability to blunt pain. Skeptics have argued that this effect
results from either simple relaxation or a placebo response. But
a number of experiments have ruled out these explanations. In a
classic 1969 report, Thomas H. McGlashan and his colleagues at
the University of Pennsylvania found that for poorly
hypnotizable people, hypnosis was as effective in reducing pain
as a sugar pill that the subjects had been told was a powerful
painkiller. But highly hypnotizable subjects benefited three
times more from hypnosis than from the placebo. In another
study, in 1976, Hilgard and Stanford colleague Eva I. Banyai
observed that subjects who were vigorously riding stationary
bicycles were just as responsive to hypnotic suggestions as when
they were hypnotized in a relaxing setting.

In 1997 Pierre Rainville of the University of Montreal and his
colleagues set out to determine which brain structures are
involved in pain relief during hypnosis. They attempted to
locate the brain structures associated with the suffering
component of pain, as distinct from its sensory aspects. Using
PET, the scientists found that hypnosis reduced the activity of
the anterior cingulate cortex--an area known to be involved in
pain--but did not affect the activity of the somatosensory
cortex, where the sensations of pain are processed.

Despite these findings, however, the mechanisms underlying
hypnotic pain relief are still poorly understood. The model
favored by most researchers is that the analgesic effect of
hypnosis occurs in higher brain centers than those involved in
registering the painful sensation. This would account for the
fact that most autonomic responses that routinely accompany
pain--such as increased heart rate--are relatively unaffected by
hypnotic suggestions of analgesia.

But couldn't people merely be faking that they had been
hypnotized? Two key studies have put such suspicions to rest.

In a cunning 1971 experiment dubbed The Disappearing Hypnotist,
Frederick Evans and Martin T. Orne of the University of
Pennsylvania compared the reactions of two groups of subjects:
one made up of people they knew to be truly hypnotizable and
another of individuals they told to pretend to be hypnotized. An
experimenter who did not know which group was which conducted a
routine hypnotic procedure that was suddenly interrupted by a
bogus power failure. When the experimenter left the room to
investigate the situation, the pretending subjects immediately
stopped faking: they opened their eyes, looked around the room
and in all respects dropped the pretense. The real hypnotic
subjects, however, slowly and with some difficulty terminated
hypnosis by themselves.

Fakers also tend to overplay their role. When subjects are given
suggestions to forget certain aspects of the hypnosis session,
their claims not to remember are sometimes suspiciously
pervasive and absolute, for instance, or they report odd
experiences that are rarely, if ever, recounted by real
subjects. Taru Kinnunen, Harold S. Zamansky and their co-workers
at Northeastern University have exposed fakers using traditional
lie-detector tests. They have found that when real hypnotic
subjects answer questions under hypnosis, their physiological
reactions generally meet the criteria for truthfulness, whereas
those of simulators do not.


Hypnosis and Memory

Perhaps nowhere has hypnosis engendered more controversy than
over the issue of "recovered" memory. Cognitive science has
established that people are fairly adept at discerning whether
an event actually occurred or whether they only imagined it. But
under some circumstances, we falter. We can come to believe (or
can be led to believe) that something happened to us when, in
fact, it did not. One of the key cues humans appear to use in
making the distinction between reality and imagination is the
experience of effort. Apparently, at the time of encoding a
memory, a "tag" cues us as to the amount of effort we expended:
if the event is tagged as having involved a good deal of mental
effort on our part, we tend to interpret it as something we
imagined. If it is tagged as having involved relatively little
mental effort, we tend to interpret it as something that
actually happened to us. Given that the calling card of hypnosis
is precisely the feeling of effortlessness, we can see why
hypnotized people can so easily mistake an imagined past event
for something that happened long ago. Hence, something that is
merely imagined can become ingrained as an episode in our life
story.

A host of studies verify this effect. Readily hypnotized
subjects, for instance, can routinely be led to produce detailed
and dramatic accounts of their first few months of life even
though those events did not in fact occur and even though adults
simply do not have the capacity to remember early infancy.
Similarly, when given suggestions to regress to childhood,
highly hypnotizable subjects behave in a roughly childlike
manner, are often quite emotional and may later insist that they
were genuinely reliving childhood. But research confirms that
these responses are in no way authentically childlike--not in
speech, behavior, emotion, perception, vocabulary or thought
patterns. These performances are no more childlike than those of
adults playacting as children. In short, nothing about hypnosis
enables a subject to transcend the fundamental nature and
limitations of human memory. It does not allow someone to exhume
memories that are decades old or to retrace or undo human
development.


What It's Good For

So what are the medical benefits of hypnosis? A 1996 National
Institutes of Health technology assessment panel judged hypnosis
to be an effective intervention for alleviating pain from cancer
and other chronic conditions. Voluminous clinical studies also
indicate that hypnosis can reduce the acute pain experienced by
patients undergoing burn-wound debridement, children enduring
bone marrow aspirations and women in labor. A meta-analysis
published in a recent special issue of the International Journal
of Clinical and Experimental Hypnosis, for example, found that
hypnotic suggestions relieved the pain of 75 percent of 933
subjects participating in 27 different experiments. The pain-
relieving effect of hypnosis is often substantial, and in a few
cases the degree of relief matches or exceeds that provided by
morphine.

But the Society for Clinical and Experimental Hypnosis says that
hypnosis cannot, and should not, stand alone as the sole medical
or psychological intervention for any disorder. The reason is
that anyone who can read a script with some degree of expression
can learn how to hypnotize someone. An individual with a medical
or psychological problem should first consult a qualified health
care provider for a diagnosis. Such a practitioner is in the
best position to decide with the patient whether hypnosis is
indicated and, if it is, how it might be incorporated into the
individual's treatment.

Hypnosis can boost the effectiveness of psychotherapy for some
conditions. Another meta-analysis that examined the outcomes of
people in 18 separate studies found that patients who received
cognitive behavioral therapy plus hypnosis for disorders such as
obesity, insomnia, anxiety and hypertension showed greater
improvement than 70 percent of the patients who received
psychotherapy alone. After publication of these findings, a task
force of the American Psychological Association validated
hypnosis as an adjunct procedure for the treatment of obesity.
But the jury is still out on other disorders with a behavioral
component. Drug addiction and alcoholism do not respond well to
hypnosis, and the evidence for hypnosis as an aid in quitting
smoking is equivocal.

That said, there is strong, but not yet definitive, evidence
that hypnosis can be an effective component in the broader
treatment of other conditions. Listed in rough order of
tractability by hypnosis, these include a subgroup of asthmas;
some dermatological disorders, including warts; irritable bowel
syndrome; hemophilia; and nausea associated with chemotherapy.
The mechanism by which hypnosis alleviates these disorders is
unknown, and claims that hypnosis increases immune function in
any clinically important way are at this time unsubstantiated.

More than 30 years ago Hilgard predicted that as knowledge about
hypnosis becomes more widespread in the scientific community, a
process of "domestication" will take place: researchers will use
the technique more and more often as a routine tool to study
other topics of interest, such as hallucination, pain and
memory. He forecast that, thus grounded in science, the clinical
use of hypnosis would simply become a matter of course for some
patients with selected problems. Although we are not quite there
today, hypnosis has nonetheless come a long way from the
swinging pocket watch.


Related Links:

For an introduction to the history of hypnosis and its modern-
day uses, visit the Web site of the Institute for the Study of
Healthcare Organizations and Transactions at www.institute-
shot.com/hypnosis_and_health.htm

For information on hypnosis research and clinical applications,
visit the International Journal of Clinical and Experimental
Hypnosis at www.sunsite.utk.edu/IJCEH

Further Information:

Hypnosis for the Seriously Curious. Kenneth Bowers. W. W.
Norton, 1983.

Contemporary Hypnosis Research. Erika Fromm and Michael R. Nash.
Guilford Press, 1992.


The Author(s):

MICHAEL R. NASH is associate professor of psychology at the
University of Tennessee at Knoxville and is editor in chief of
the International Journal of Clinical and Experimental Hypnosis.
He received his Ph.D. from Ohio University in 1983 and completed
his clinical internship at the Yale University School of
Medicine the same year. He has published two books, one on the
research foundations of hypnosis and the other on
psychoanalysis, both co-authored with Erika Fromm of the
University of Chicago. He is the author of more than 60
publications in scientific journals on the topics of human
memory, dissociative pathology, sex abuse, psychotherapy and
hypnosis. Nash has received numerous awards for his scientific
and clinical writing.







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 29

                Re: Alien 'Experts' Converge On Perth - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:45:01 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 22:09:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien 'Experts' Converge On Perth - Hatch


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Subject: Re: Alien 'Experts' Converge On Perth
>Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 19:39:31 -0400

>>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>To: <- UFO - UpDates Subscribers ->
>>Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 19:14:38 -0400
>>Subject: UFO UpDate: Alien 'Experts' Converge On Perth

>>Source: The Courier-Mail - Brisbane, QLD, Australia
>>07-27-03

>>Alien 'Experts' Converge On Perth

><snip>

>>Ms Rodwell said she has provided counselling to more than 800
>>Perth people since 1997 who claim to have had contact with
>>aliens.

>>She is the author of the book Awakenings which is highly
>>regarded by those interested in the phenomenon.

>Huh? I wonder how and when the reporter took a poll? :)

>Ray Stanford


Hi Ray [chuckle!]


I couldn't find 800 people who each claimed contact with
'aliens' in Los Angeles, and there they are in Western
Australia?

Oh, I could find 8000 people in contact with some contactee all
right, but direct contact with the aliens?

Is Ms Rodwell counting 'undocumented workers' and former boat
people as aliens?

I don't suppose she would want to publish a list of these
contactees... just their initials, gender and maybe general
location, so others could count them.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 29

                          More On The McNally Study

From: Will Bueche <willbueche@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:05:11 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 23:03:45 -0400
Subject: More On The McNally Study


Just a quick note with new information about Richard McNally's
(Harvard Medical School) study from earlier this year. I have at
last been able to see a draft of the as-yet-unpublished report,
and I am stunned by what I have seen.

Some may remember that I gave McNally some benefit of the doubt
when I assumed that when he told the media that experiencers
seem to "have a higher than average incidence of sleep
paralysis," that he must have meant that his research had shown
that experiencers reported, in addition to their alien
encounters, more episodes of sleep paralysis than the average
population - episodes of sleep paralysis which they themselves
identified as being distinct from their alien encounter
experiences.

I felt at the time that this was a safe assumption, because
after all, they interviewed the experiencers extensively so
probably had learned a good deal about their lives. And I knew
experiencers probably do tend to remember their episodes of
sleep paralysis more often than the average person since they've
got a reason to be familiar with states of consciousness, the
nature of dreaming, etc., so as to ensure that they are not
mistaking something mundane for something remarkable - to ensure
that they are not mistaking a common sleep related state of
consciousness for an alien encounter. Particularly as they have
some superficial similarities (particularly in the initial
moments).

If McNally's report had shown that experiencers did have "more
sleep paralysis than average,"  I said this could be important.
I speculated that perhaps experiencers cycle through more
altered states of mind than average, causing both more episodes
of sleep paralysis, and more contact experiences. Seemed like an
interesting direction for someone with a more open mind to
pursue. I'd said that while McNally was being foolish for
assuming that the state of mind in which alien contact occurs is
the regular old sleep paralysis moments, he may have nonetheless
discovered something about experiencers' minds which might lead
other researchers to discovering more nuanced levels of
consciousness in which actual interactions with other
intelligences might occur, or be in some way facilitated.

Well... I was being far too generous when I gave his comments
the benefit of the doubt.

McNall's reporty does not actually show a higher than average
incidence of sleep paralysis among experiencers.

Let me state that again, because now that I've seen the report
it is absolutely clear:

McNally does not actually show a higher than average incidence
of sleep paralysis among experiencers. You can forget all the
headlines he made with dismissive comments to that effect.

What McNally did, and he states this in the initial paragraphs,
is he defined all alien contact experiences as "apparent episode
of sleep paralysis accompanied by hypnopompic...
hallucinations." And in following that lame deduction, in
McNally's view all people who report lifelong alien encounter
experiences must therefore have a higher incidence of sleep
paralysis because in McNally's opinion, alien encounters _are_
sleep paralysis, and there sure seems to be a great deal of
them.

His comments to the press about a relationship between alien
encounters and sleep paralysis were, as many others expected,
just an opinion based on the same superficial comparison between
sleep paralysis and alien encounters that have been discussed
since the early 1980s.

His study does not show that in addition to alien encounters,
experiencers also report a higher incidence of sleep paralysis.
He just blurred the line between the two, called them the same
thing, and told it to the papers.

I am stunned by the level of... well, it is not 'non
professionalism', because he honestly thinks that his informed
opinion about what sleep paralysis and hypnogogic/hypnopompic
hallucinations are must be more accurate than what all the
experiencers' informed opinions about what sleep paralysis and
hypnogogic/hypnopompic hallucinations are - and how they are not
the same as alien encounters, though they have superficial
similarities in some respects. To dismiss the distinction even
when those who have experienced both assure him that they are
not the same, and can articulate why, that's not non-
professionalism, that's just bone-headedness.

So, in conclusion: McNally's comments to the press (dozens of
newspapers around the world reported his opinion as fact) need
to be viewed in the context of his errant assumption that two
distinct phenomena were one and the same.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 29

                 Re: UFO Experience Real Hair-Raiser - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 12:08:17 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 23:09:25 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Experience Real Hair-Raiser - Hatch


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 19:32:35 -0400
>Subject: Re: UFO Experience Real Hair-Raiser

<snip>

>>Maybe the boob meant to say that he couldn't tell if an
>>imaginary line between them was curved or not.

>>I'm reminded of the three nite-lites "in a perfect triangle".
>>I'm still waiting for an imperfect triangle. Maybe the lady who
>>saw a UFO "between Denver and Phoenix" can help.

>Yes, I imagine the lady who saw a UFO "between Denver and
>Phoenix" could definitely solve this mystery.

>I always thought an imperfect triangle was a situation in
>which one of three lovers shoots another. :)

>This field is more fun than a barrel of drunken monkeys.


Hi Ray:

The Denver-Phoenix lady never said which highway she took on
this trip. I got the distinct impression that she had no idea.
The source (some book) only implied direction of travel (Denver
to Phoenix) by syntax. There were lots of roads to choose from.
Even month and/or year were left up in the air.

I would cite the source but I could never catalog the report.
Everything here is by date/time/location.

Oh! (And just for fun)

I submitted my website URL to some outfit in Texas, mentioning
my nice sightings maps of the west. The online form demanded my
city name, which had to be in Texas, a prerequisite for
listings.

I put in Yellow Falls, TX. That worked.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 29

                Re: UFO Experience Real Hair-Raiser - Shough

From: Martin Shough <mshough@parcellular.fsnet.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 17:05:41 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 23:11:33 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Experience Real Hair-Raiser - Shough


>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 15:21:46 -0700
>Subject: Re: UFO Experience Real Hair-Raiser

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 14:47:56 -0400
>>Subject: Re: UFO Experience Real Hair-Raiser

>>>From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>>Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 16:55:57 -0300
>>>Subject: UFO Experience Real Hair-Raiser

>>>He said: "There were two massive red and purple bright lights
>>>about 15-20 metres apart above a house.

>>>"They were both roughly in line with each other...

>><snip>

>>Huh???!!!

>>I don't know what they saw, but the reporter doesn't seem very
>>bright, even if the lights were!

>>How so?

>>Because any two points define a line.

>>"They [the two "massive lights"] were roughly in a line with
>>each other."

>>Roughly?  :)

>Maybe the boob meant to say that he couldn't tell if an
>imaginary line between them was curved or not.

>I'm reminded of the three nite-lites "in a perfect triangle".
>I'm still waiting for an imperfect triangle. Maybe the lady who
>saw a UFO "between Denver and Phoenix" can help.

Presumably two lights "in line" means parallel to the reference
horizon and three in a "perfect triangle" means equilateral.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 29

                          Disclosure Dialogue 01-06

From: Victor Viggiani <zland@sympatico.ca>
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 21:21:37 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 23:21:19 -0400
Subject: Disclosure Dialogue 01-06


Disclosure Dialogue Vol 1 Ed 6

Greeting to all at UFO Updates

The following is an excerpt from my presentation to the Brisbane
Symposium. I dedicate this excerpt to the 1812 boxes of
re-classified Air Force records that "won't see the light of day
for who knows how long." (K. Chester UFO Updates July 26.2003)

Regards

Victor Viggiani
Canberra Australia July 30.2003

Opening Remarks to

-THE INTERNATIONAL SCIENTIFIC AND META-PHYSICAL SYMPOSIUM -
BRISBANE AUSTRALIA

2-3-4 AUG 2003
http://www.hypermax.net.au/%7Eauforn/

DISCLOSURE: THE ULTIMATE TERRESTRIAL IMPERATIVE
by Victor Viggiani

Radio Correspondent Strange Days Indeed Toronto Ontario Canada

"What is at the core of the issues we address today?

There is a fertile public constituency out there that is
unsettled by many issues. The human experience clearly shows
that terrestrial beings are unsettled by global economic
oppression, frustrated by government ascendancy and secrecy and
quite literally sick to death from the environmental decay and
the destruction of the planet s biodiversity.

The ascendancy governments and international monetary
federations possess to control and suppress third world
economies have usurped representational governance and crippled
its ethical and operational underpinnings. Global mismanagement
of the environment has all but numbered our days on the planet.

What, you may ask, has this to do with the UFO/ETI question? The
above are the fundamental questions behind the UFO/ETI reality,
its 50 plus year cover-up and what I call the Ultimate
Terrestrial Imperative of Disclosure.

Not questions such as: are they real? What proof do we have that
they are real? Does science say they are real? These questions
in the context of the research are, by now academic.

The inability of elected officials to fundamentally change or
influence the democratic process is reflected by the inert
economic condition of global finances as well continued
instability and impotence of third world countries to make any
head way in the benefits they are able to offer their people.
While Third World debt spirals upwards, international monetary
wealth and control increases geometrically each year, the only
constitutionally delegated force of free speech, the media, rams
its head up the posterior of vested interests ignoring the
biggest story in history. Social Justice demands that all in the
family of humanity have access to the truth and a life enriched
by satisfaction and fairness.

The questions of unrelenting government secrecy, constant and
sustained global economic instability, social justice,
environmental decay and the ETI/UFO question are not mutually
exclusive issues. They are inextricably linked to cavernous
data we now possess and that held captive behind walls of
secrecy about the UFO presence on out planet. As long as
secrecy reigns, like clever gamesmen the Air Force and CIA
officials will continue to de-classify, release then re-classify
the truth at will. The shell game by the gamesmen continues.

"The Gamesman shouts: Guess where the pea is and you get a
silver dollar! Guess again, the pea is glued to the top of shell,
there but neatly hidden from view and folks... at no time do my
hands leave my wrist! I promise..." (It was never there in the
first place - definition of disinformation)

A post disclosure era, a post secrecy era will unglue the
mechanisms of the shell game. The truth behind UFO sightings and
the almost magical and radical technologies will fall into our
lap if big business doesn't grab them with a 'black budget'
allotment first.

When we speak of years of documented sightings by military and
airline pilots of unidentified craft performing highly unusual
if not impossible manoeuvres demonstrating flight
characteristics far in excess of any known of conventional
craft, we also speak about unknown propulsion systems powering
these craft. In turn we speak of government secrecy which, by
its own admission, has been cataloguing information about these
craft sightings.

When we speak of the potential technologies behind the
propulsion systems which power these craft it puts us into touch
with an energy source or sources that make fossil fuels outdated
and poisonous to the global environment. Their continued use
does one and one thing only: the continued use of fossil fuels
perpetuates an economic world order controlled by international
interests that have devastating and ostensibly irreversible
effects on our planet.

Any move towards a serious investigation or scientific
discussion of the UFO/ETI question and alternate energy and
propulsion systems would be deleterious to the hegemony of
control exercised by world s oil giants and geo-political
domination of oil rich nations. These hegemonies need to be
identified globally and exposed.

The lattice or template characterizing the inter-connectedness
of the UFO/ETI question, the principalities of geo-political
control of the world economy and the use of fossil fuel is a
matrix the media and ex-government officials dare not analyze.
This type of analysis would expose their determination to
sustain its fossil fuel supremacy and prolong obfuscating the
critical mass of technological information hidden in any real
investigation about how the craft may operate.

This medium of inter-connectedness is a matrix which must be
capitalized upon by the UFO research community in order to
awaken four vital constituent groups in the global community.
Number one the list is the media.

It has fallen to the UFO community to be the new advocates. A
rag tag assembly of international altruists with and without
university degrees determined to knock on the doors of big
business, the media and government to tell them we want to come
in for a chat..."


/V. Viggiani
Canberra Australia
July 2003







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 29

               Rachel Resident Waits For Return Of Confiscated

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 23:31:21 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 23:31:21 -0400
Subject: Rachel Resident Waits For Return Of Confiscated




Source: KLAS-TV - Las Vegas, Nevada

http://www.klas-tv.com/Global/story.asp?S=1378807&nav=168XH9fR

07-28-04

Rachel Resident Waits For Return Of Confiscated Items

By George Knapp
I-Team Reporter

A Nevada man whose home was raided last month by the Joint
Terrorism Task Force says he is still waiting for the return of
his property.

Chuck Clark, a self-described military watchdog, says FBI agents
and other lawmen used a sealed search warrant to seize his
property, including computers and personal files. This came
after Clark took the Channel 8, Eyewitness News I-Team on a tour
outside the infamous Area 51 military base.

Other than the raid itself and an FBI interview with Chuck
Clark's Webmaster, the case hasn't gone too far. Clark hasn't
been charged with anything, and has had no further contact with
the government, but he hasn't been given his property back
either.

He thinks this was all an intimidation tactic meant to scare him
away from keeping an eye on Area 51. The raid on Chuck Clark's
modest trailer in tiny Rachel came just a few days after he
escorted the I-Team on a tour of the perimeter of the Area 51
military base, the very existence of which was long denied by
the government.

Neighbors snapped photos of the FBI agents and other
unidentified members of the task force as they carted away
Clark's computers, photos, and files. "They're paranoid about
this location and I don't see why. There's nothing in sight, not
even close," said Chuck Clark, military watchdog.

Clark is an admitted pain in the rear to the people who run Area
51. He's spent years exploring the outer edges of the super-
secret base, snapping photos of the facility from far-away
vantage points, compiling information from public sources and
then posting his findings on the website of Rachel's Little
A'le'inn. He's also written a visitors guide to the base, which
has been the testing ground for the most sensitive military
technology of the past 50 years.

Name a secret plane, and it's been based at Area 51 at one time
or another. Clark is well known to the security force, which
guards the base. He's routinely shadowed by the so-called "Cammo
Dudes" and has been picked up by the array of cameras and other
sensors positioned all around the edge of the sprawling test
facility. But it wasn't until he began exposing the existence of
hidden spy gear on public land that his legal troubles began.

"I've found 31 or 32 of them and have only covered 3 or 4 roads.
They started putting time delays in them, making them harder to
find," said Clark, referring to hidden sensors. Relying on a
frequency counter, Clark is able to zero in on the secret
sensors, hidden in bushes and miles away from the edge of the
base, on public land. "This is the motion detector and vibrator.
It detects metal from a car driving by."

Once he finds one, he digs it up, takes a photo, and then puts
it back. He has never removed one. "They're clearly marked and
I'm not about to go down that road. I'm sure I could do long
years in a nice federal facility somewhere." Five days after he
made that remark, federal agents raided his home. Clark has
declined to appear on camera to talk about the raid but told us
he thinks this is an intimidation tactic meant to make him back
off from his interest in Area 51.

He says the people at the base know full well that he isn't a
terrorist. In our earlier interview, he said the military has no
right to hassle citizens on public land, and no justification
for hiding spy equipment along these roads. "They have a 25-mile
buffer zone around the base. Why they have to put this stuff
outside the line really escapes me? I've found them (sensors) in
the next valley as much as 8 miles outside the line," he said.

The military has a long history of bending the law concerning
Area 51. In the mid-1980's, the United States Air Force seized
89,000 acres of public land around Groom Lake and only later
sought congressional permission to annex the acreage. In the
1990's, it took control of high points used by the curious to
peer down on Area 51. It also put up signs falsely claiming one
area to be the boundary of the base and fessed up when caught.

But is it legal to spy on private citizens on public land? A
freedom of information inquiry to the BLM has failed to turn up
any memo of understanding giving the military the okay to
install the devices. The Pentagon thus far has no comment.
Longtime Nevada military watchdog Grace Potorti says if the air
force didn't inform the BLM, then it's action would likely be
illegal. The use of the terrorism task force, she said, is
typical of the civil rights excesses now allowed under the USA
Patriot Act.

Already, the Nellis range and Nevada Test Site comprise the
largest military facility in the western hemisphere. Area 51 has
525 square miles of restricted air space. It isn't possible to
get within 15 miles of the base itself.

So it's tough to make the case that they don't already have
enough of a buffer zone out there. Grace Potorti thinks this may
be a sign that the military intends to make another land grab
around Groom Lake.


Watch George Knapp's special report Tuesday at 6 p.m. when he
takes a look at the attempts by the military to get exemptions
to environmental laws.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 30

                 Re: UFO Experience Real Hair-Raiser - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 23:39:27 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 08:59:07 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Experience Real Hair-Raiser - Hatch


>From: Martin Shough <mshough@parcellular.fsnet.co.uk>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 17:05:41 +0100
>Subject: Re: UFO Experience Real Hair-Raiser

>>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 15:21:46 -0700
>>Subject: Re: UFO Experience Real Hair-Raiser

>>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
>>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 14:47:56 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: UFO Experience Real Hair-Raiser


>>>>He said: "There were two massive red and purple bright lights
>>>>about 15-20 metres apart above a house.

>>>>"They were both roughly in line with each other...

>>><snip>

>>>Huh???!!!

>>>I don't know what they saw, but the reporter doesn't seem very
>>>bright, even if the lights were!

>>>How so?

>>>Because any two points define a line.

>>>"They [the two "massive lights"] were roughly in a line with
>>>each other."

>>>Roughly? :)

>>Maybe the boob meant to say that he couldn't tell if an
>>imaginary line between them was curved or not.

>>I'm reminded of the three nite-lites "in a perfect triangle".
>>I'm still waiting for an imperfect triangle. Maybe the lady who
>>saw a UFO "between Denver and Phoenix" can help.

>Presumably two lights "in line" means parallel to the reference
>horizon and three in a "perfect triangle" means equilateral.

Hello Martin:

I might presume a "perfect" triangle means equilateral.

But two lights roughly in line with each other? Your suggestion
that this might mean parallel with the ground is new to me, I
wouldn't have thought of it. Why not a roughly vertical line?

It is up to the reporter, in this case a newsman, to make those
things clear. I have to agree with Ray that he doesn't sound too
swift.

As for the Denver-Phoenix lady, she is all too typical. Men are
almost as bad, sometimes worse (but men can't admit it!) I
dispatched tow trucks by radio for a few months once between
jobs, a friend owned the dispatching service.

If I learned one thing it was this: About half the people on the
road haven't a clue where they are until they reach some known
destination. Break down halfway there, and they could be on the
moon. Over and over again .. and I still somehow find that
amazing.


Best

- Larry








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 30

                    Re: Filer's Files #30 -- 2003 - Olmos

From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos@yahoo.es>
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 10:11:29 +0200 (CEST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 09:16:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #30 -- 2003 - Olmos


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 18:19:13 -0400
>Subject: Re: Filer's Files #30 -- 2003


>Although it involves reported UFO damage to a private aircraft
>and not to a commercial one, the remarkable case of May 3, 1975,
>when Mexican pilot Carlos Antonio de Los Santos Montiel, age 23,
>flew from the airfield of Zihuatenejo, Mexico, to Mexico City,
>piloting a Piper PA-24, might be of interest.

>For some of the details click on:

>http://www.chez.com/lesovnis/htm/montiel75.htm

>One of three domed-discs actually bumped the bottom under-side
>of the aircraft, leaving a dent (the linked account misses that
>important fact)!

>We do not have to take Carlos' word for the incident because the
>objects, along with the Piper PA-24 aircraft, were tracked on
>radar. Copies of official documents confirming that are in my
>files as a result of my investigation of this case, first-hand,
>In Mexico City.

>To my perception, Carlos Antonio de Los Santos Montiel was an
>impressive and credible witness.

>Jerry Clark, of this list, has interviewed the witness, also.
>Perhaps he would share with us his impressions of the case and
>the witness, despite the reported bizarre aftermath of a
>reported attempt to silence the witness, including when he was
>entering a hotel to be interviewed by J. Allen Hynek. (See the
>link provided.)


Dear Ray and List,

I would not put too much credence in this Latin-american
aeronautical event, and it has been demolished or debunked by
Mexican engineer and researcher Luis Ruiz Noguez.

If there is someone interested, I can privately provide Mr
Ruiz=B4s email address for consultation.


Best regards,

V-J


















   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 30

                 Re: Military Probe US Crop Circles? - Haith

From: Dave Haith <visions@ntlworld.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 09:41:55 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 09:45:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Military Probe US Crop Circles? - Haith


If this report just out on the web is true, it raises important
questions about why the military is so interested in crop
circles that it has a special unit to deal with them.


http://www.cropcirclenews.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=128


Regards

Dave Haith








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 30

                    Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was - Bourdais

From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr>
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:19:53 +0200
Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 09:48:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was - Bourdais


>From: Neil Morris <neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk>
>To: ufoupdates@sympatico.ca
>Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:48:57 +0100
>Subject: Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was

>>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 12:25:25 +0200
>>Subject: Mogul 4 That Never Was

>Hi Gildas,

>Can I make some comments that spring to mind re your piece.

>>To All,

>>I think it is about time to come back to the question of wether
>>the Mogul 4 balloon train was flown or not.

<snip>

>>After having read
>>carefully the books of Charles Moore and Karl Pflock ,and having
>>leafed through the 1,000 pages USAF Roswell Report, I seems more
>>and more obvious to me that what Brazel found on the Foster
>>ranch on June 14 was not the Mogul 4 ballloon train but a more
>>modest cluster of metorological balloons with one or several
>>radar targets of the famous model ML-307B, the one with flowered
>>tape.

>We could have a problem here, what were the most common uses of
>meteorological balloons by your everyday air base weather
>station?. I think you may find it _didn't_ readily involve many
>radar reflectors.

To Neil and list

I am not talking of balloons launched by any air weather
station. The point here is that, according to all sources,
especially the NYU reports (in the Roswell Report), the books of
Charles Moore and Karl Pflock - sources that the skeptics cannot
discard easily - the NYU team, with geophysicist Albert Crary,
launched everyday in June small clusters of balloons of the 350
gr model, with radar targets, and these were not Mogul balloon
trains. They were other launchings.

The main argument of the Mogul theorists is that NYU used, for
the Mogul launchings, a special model of radar target, which
came from an old stock of preproduction of 1944, which they had
brought with them at Alamogordo.

This model had been made by a New York manufacterer who had used
flowered tape. It is the main "proof" that Brazel found the
hypothetical Mogul 4 flight, because he described flowered tape.
Moore insists that the NYU team was the only one to use this
particular model.

But it can be easily argued that these targets had been used for
the NYU smaller balloon clusters, comprising 3 to 7 balloons and
3 to 5 radar targets ML-307B (see Pflock, 2001, page 148).

It is obvious that Albert Crary launched such a balloon cluster
in the morning of June 4, after the cancellation of Mogul 4. He
says just that in his diary and nothing else.

He probably used the NYU equipment, to which he had access.
Actually, the balloons that Brazel found may have been launched
any day during the first two weeks of June. The NYU team made
such launchings everyday.

That's the point I am trying to make, as clearly as possible. It
means that the Mogul argumentation falls apart: there was no big
secret to protect, and the debris was even more mundane, easy to
identify as balloons and targets. Brazel found that on June 14,
filled three bags with it and told his daughter that it was just
garbage (see Bessies's affidavit).

I think we are agreed that it had nothing to do with the
discovery of the strange debris field in the bebinning of July.
Most probably, Brazel was instructed, in the morning of July 8,
to tell the balloon story and shut up on the real, strange
discovery. If the Roswell officers had found balloon debris, all
they had to do was to pick up a balsa stick and break it to see
what they had.


Gildas Bourdais








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 30

                Re: No MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Case -

From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 07:18:46 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 10:48:24 -0400
Subject: Re: No MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Case -


>From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 10:04:27 -0500
>Subject: Re: No MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Case

>>From: Charlette LeFevre <clefevre@oz.net>
>>To: Virtually Strange <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 00:20:47 -0700
>>Subject: Re: No MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Case

>>>From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>>Subject: No MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Case
>>>Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 23:57:12 -0500

>>>MUFON UFO Journal July 2003
>>>Directors Message
>>>Reproduced with permission

>>>NO MUFON Endorsement

>>>By John F. Schuessler
>>>MUFON International Director

>>Now I'm even more confused by MUFON.

>>MUFON "non-endorses" the Brazilian Oliveira case it technically
>>endorsed by presenting at the last minute a one-sided view at
>>their much publicized annual Symposium?

>MUFON will have a full article about this case in the August
>2003 issue of the MUFON Journal. Perhaps at that time Mr.
>Schuessler will allow me to reproduce it here.

>It seems to me that MUFON allowed the presentation of a case by
>the only person who actually investigated it. Good or bad, LMH
>was the only person to do so. However this does not mean that
>MUFON endorses the claims by Howe. Obviously they don't.

Terry

The fact that LMH was the only person to investigate the alleged
abduction isn't exactly something of merit. No other UFO
researcher in Brazil did so because we are all very aware that
the hoaxer's claims were all fabrications. And because of his
specific allegations this time, with even a higher level of
creativity than the the previous hoaxes, no one really spent a
second on it.

If LMH knew what we know about the hoaxer, she would never have
wasted time with it. Her efforts and time would be much better
used on better cases.


A. J.







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 30

              Private Aircraft Damage Event [was: Filer's Files

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 10:51:13 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:02:55 -0400
Subject: Private Aircraft Damage Event [was: Filer's Files


>From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos@yahoo.es>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 10:11:29 +0200 (CEST)
>Subject: Re: Filer's Files #30 -- 2003


>Dear Ray and List,

>I would not put too much credence in this Latin-american
>aeronautical event, and it has been demolished or debunked by
>Mexican engineer and researcher Luis Ruiz Noguez.

>If there is someone interested, I can privately provide Mr
>Ruiz=B4s email address for consultation.


Hello Vicente-Juan,

Thanks for your always-of-interest comment. Of course, I'd like
to know how to contact Noguez. I may have read Noguez's
commentary several years ago (but I could be confused about
whose commentary I read) and found them not completely
convincing. However, if he has written his report on that case
in English, I'd like to ask him for a copy.

I don't see how Noguez could explain the radar tracking of
objects near the aircraft unless the pilot (Carlos de Los Santos
Montiel) dumped some tensiled Mylar balloons out the aircraft
window and the wind was in the right direction as to drive them
toward Popocatepetal (volcano) -- which would be difficult to
believe because I do not think that the wind blows into the
west-southwest very often in that area.

Did Noguez explain the radar tracking or just attack Montiel's
claim of having been intimidated by men in black suits? I have
copies of official-looking documents about the alleged radar
tracking. Perhaps Carlos could have had complaisant (in a hoax)
friends in air traffic control, but find it difficult to believe
that such would to be the case, without good substantiation or a
confession.

Of course I'll admit I have some doubt that a UFO would actually
dent an aircraft, since if they are as sophisticated as they
seem to be, I suspect they have some very excellent collision
avoidance equipment.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of trifles." --
Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 30

             New Digging To Probe Mystery of Ancient Sanxingdui

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:11:59 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:11:59 -0400
Subject: New Digging To Probe Mystery of Ancient Sanxingdui





Source: The People's Daily - China

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200307/30/eng20030730_121245.shtml

07-30-03

New Digging To Probe Mystery of Ancient Sanxingdui Ruins

Archeologists will launch a large-scale excavation at the
Sanxingdui Ruins in southwest China's Sichuan Province this year
to probe the mysteries of a lost civilization dating back more
than 3,000 years.

Archeologists will launch a large-scale excavation at the
Sanxingdui Ruins in southwest China's Sichuan Province this year
to probe the mysteries of a lost civilization dating back more
than 3,000 years.

Officials said work at the Sanxingdui ruins would run until 2010
as the State Administration of Cultural Heritage had
approvedexcavation of a total area of 7,000 square meters.

A dig of 700 square meters this year would probably discover the
mysterious palaces, an altar, aristocratic tombs, bronze vessels
and jadeware workshops, say archeologists.

"We have great hopes for the dig," said Chen De'an, chief
archeologist of a Sichuan provincial archeological team at
Sanxingdui Ruins.

Sanxingdui, which is listed among China's top 10
archaeologicalfindings of the 20th century, has long been
suspected to be the remains of the ancient Shu Kingdom that
suddenly disappeared in southwest China between 3,000 and 5,000
years ago.

Some of the most striking pieces were found accidentally in 1986
in Sanxingdui, a small village in Guanghan City, Sichuan.

Workers digging clay for bricks unearthed two pits, hidden for
more than 3,000 years and filled with layers of bronze, stone
and jade items including humanlike heads, masks, smaller figures
and elephant tusks.

Though archeologists have since struggled to further study and
unearth relics from Sanxingdui, they have long been puzzled by
thefailure to find the altar and other items of the lost
civilization.

Three different ancient civilizations that developed
separatelyare still enigmas for archeologists, while the exact
meanings of the bronzes and masks remains unknown to
archeologists at home andabroad.

Some have held that an alien species might be the answer. A
previous report quoted the locals as saying that the ruins were
visited by an unidentified flying object (UFO) in December 2000.

"We hope to solve the millenniums-old mysteries one by one if we
are lucky enough to find items like palaces, an altar and
tombs," said Chen.

He said a rough picture of the mysterious ancient kingdom
couldbe drawn if more details surfaced in the new excavation.

Sanxingdui is regarded as the site of the earliest and largest
ruins of the ancient Shu people discovered in China with its
earliest occupation dating back to the late Neolithic period
from 5,000 to 3,700 years ago.


[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 30

             Re: No MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Case - Groff

From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:45:34 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:23:57 -0400
Subject: Re: No MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Case - Groff


>From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 07:18:46 -0300
>Subject: Re: No MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Case

>>From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 10:04:27 -0500
>>Subject: Re: No MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Case

>>>From: Charlette LeFevre <clefevre@oz.net>
>>>To: Virtually Strange <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>>Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 00:20:47 -0700
>>>Subject: Re: No MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Case

>>>>From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
>>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>>>Subject: No MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Case
>>>>Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 23:57:12 -0500

>>>>MUFON UFO Journal July 2003
>>>>Directors Message
>>>>Reproduced with permission

>>>>NO MUFON Endorsement

>>>>By John F. Schuessler
>>>>MUFON International Director

>>>Now I'm even more confused by MUFON.

>>>MUFON "non-endorses" the Brazilian Oliveira case it
technically
>>>endorsed by presenting at the last minute a one-sided view at
>>>their much publicized annual Symposium?

>>MUFON will have a full article about this case in the August
>>2003 issue of the MUFON Journal. Perhaps at that time Mr.
>>Schuessler will allow me to reproduce it here.

>>It seems to me that MUFON allowed the presentation of a case by
>>the only person who actually investigated it. Good or bad, LMH
>>was the only person to do so. However this does not mean that
>>MUFON endorses the claims by Howe. Obviously they don't.

>Terry

>The fact that LMH was the only person to investigate the alleged
>abduction isn't exactly something of merit. No other UFO
>researcher in Brazil did so because we are all very aware that
>the hoaxer's claims were all fabrications. And because of his
>specific allegations this time, with even a higher level of
>creativity than the the previous hoaxes, no one really spent a
>second on it.

A. J.

I believe that Schuessler was trying to imply that no one other
than Howe actually went in and did an independent investigation
of the alleged _abduction_. That would include an independent
interview of the witness, independent collection of evidence and
all of the other aspects of a full investigation. True, many
have investigated the alleged _abductee_ (and rightly so) but
none have done an independent investigation of the event itself.

Phyllis Budinger has submitted a 40 page report detailing her
findings in an independent analysis of some of the evidence and
that will probably be brought up in the August issue of the
MUFON Journal.  Budinger, however, would love to put as much
distance as possible between her and this case (can you blame
her). She feels it is a colossal waste of time and energy.

>If LMH knew what we know about the hoaxer, she would never have
>wasted time with it. Her efforts and time would be much better
>used on better cases.

Maybe someday Howe will come to her senses and realize it's just
as important for an experiment to fail as it is to succeed.


Terry







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 30

              Has NIDS Unraveled Mystery Of Animal Mutilations?

From: Katharina Wilson <K_Wilson@alienjigsaw.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:36:09 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:25:48 -0400
Subject: Has NIDS Unraveled Mystery Of Animal Mutilations?


To List members:

I am not sure if this has made it to the UpDates List, but I
believe it is pertinent to some of the discussions that are
posted here.

This complete report was sent to me by a friend and was a PDF
(cattledeaths_tse_epidemic.pdf)

I am only including part of the Abstract. I highly recommend
that everyone start at:

www.nidsci.org/articles/animal1.html

and move on from there and read the complete 33-page report.

If NIDS is correct, in what seems to me to be a purely
scientific approach to the topic of animal mutilations, the
implications are extremely serious.

"Who is doing the mutilations and why?" and "Why leave the
body?" are some of the questions that I, and probably others,
will have to rethink.

It is possible that NIDS has unraveled the mystery of animal
mutilations?


Title:

"Unexplained Cattle Deaths and the Emergence of a Transmissible
Spongiform Encephalopathy (TSE) Epidemic in North America"

Published by National Institute for Discovery Science
4975 South Polaris Avenue, Las Vegas, NV 89118
nids@anv.net

Abbreviations:

"TSE: transmissible spongiform encephalopathy, a general term
for infection in humans and all animals.

CWD: chronic wasting disease, refers to specific TSE in deer and
elk.

BSE: bovine spongiform encephalopathy, refers to specific TSE in
cattle, also known as mad cow disease.

Scrapie: specific TSE in sheep.

Kuru: specific TSE in humans (overlaps with CJD=Creutzfeldt-
Jakob Disease, also a human TSE. "

Partial Abstract:

"We present evidence that a correlation exists between reports
of animal mutilation and the emergence of a Transmissible
Spongiform Encephalopathy (TSE) epidemic in North America:

* We show that sharp instruments are used in animal mutilations.
Our data contradict the conclusions of the 1980 Rommel Report
that claims predators and scavengers could explain reports of
cattle mutilations.

* Using data obtained from a NIDS nationwide survey of bovine
veterinarian practitioners, we show that certain organs are
preferentially removed during animal mutilations.

* We focus attention on the temporal and geographical overlaps
between the animal mutilation and TSE epidemics in NE Colorado.
The most highly publicized TSE epidemic in North America,
chronic wasting disease (CWD), emerged in NE Colorado in the
late 1960s.

* We show evidence that patterns of animal mutilations conform
to covert but classical wild life sampling methodologies for
infectious diseases.

* We show evidence in support of an epidemic of prion disease
that is both subclinical in cattle and clinical in deer/elk in
North America.

* We describe evidence from two laboratories that a number of
prion diseases in humans are misdiagnosed as Alzheimer's disease
and therefore currently escape detection.

*The historical record shows that high levels of infectious TSEs
were imported from New Guinea into research facilities at Fort
Detrick and Bethesda, Maryland after 1958 and were used for
intensive cross-species infectivity experiments.

* We hypothesize that animal mutilations represent both a TSE-
disease sampling operation on domestic animals AND a graphic
warning that the beef and venison food chain is compromised. "

End of partial abstract by NIDS.


-- Katharina Wilson







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 30

                          Secrecy News -- 07/30/03

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:50:37 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:35:35 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 07/30/03


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2003, Issue No. 65
July 30, 2003


**      CLASSIFICATION POLICY AND THE MISSING 28 PAGES
**      EXECUTIVE ORDER ON INFORMATION SHARING
**      BILL SEEKS INFO ON GOVERNMENT USE OF DATABASES
**      CORRECTIONS AND CLARIFICATIONS


CLASSIFICATION POLICY AND THE MISSING 28 PAGES

The dispute over the Bush Administration's refusal to declassify
a 28 page section of the congressional joint inquiry report on
the September 11 terrorist attacks has elevated classification
policy to front page news.

Sen. Bob Graham (D-FL) directly challenged the legitimacy of the
continued classification.  "This obsession with excessive
secrecy is deeply troubling," he said July 24:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2003_cr/s072403.html

Some may devalue such comments because Sen. Graham is a
candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination, and a
critic of President Bush.

But the same cannot be said of Sen. Richard Shelby (R-AL), who
is a Republican supporter of the President and a "hawk" on
protecting classified information.  Yet it was Shelby who said
on NBC Meet the Press and elsewhere that "My judgment is 95
percent of that information could be declassified, become
uncensored so the American people would know."

"Judgment" may be the key word here.  What the dispute over the
missing 28 pages illustrates with exceptional clarity is that
classification is a subjective process.  Different individuals
with comparable expertise and commitment to national security
will sometimes assess the sensitivity of particular information
in different, even opposing ways.

Because it is subjective, the classification process is
susceptible to bias, poor judgment or error.

While this is obvious enough, it is also hard to admit.  Asked
about Sen. Shelby's contrasting view on July 29, President Bush
simply ignored the question.  Grilled at a White House press
briefing, spokesman Scott McClellan could only repeat the
Administration position over and over.  See:

http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2003/07/wh072903b.html

If the classification process is susceptible to error, then what
is needed, and what is lacking, is an effective error correction
mechanism.

Ironically, the congressional joint inquiry into 9/11
specifically called for "amendments to the Executive Orders,
policies and procedures that govern the national security
classification of intelligence information, in an effort to
expand access to relevant information..." (recommendation 15).

But the joint inquiry assigned this crucial task to the
President! Since it is unrealistic to ask a President,
especially this President, to limit his own authority to
classify, this recommendation is a futile gesture.

Sen. Bob Graham said he would ask the Senate Intelligence
Committee exercise its own authority to disclose portions of the
28 classified pages, pursuant to a Senate procedure that has
never before been utilized.  This would precipitate an
extraordinary (and thrilling) confrontation between the
executive and legislative branches over classification policy.

See that procedure in Section 8(a) of the Rules of the Select
Committee on Intelligence here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2003_cr/s022503.html#8

The classified 28 pages are understood to refer to Saudi Arabia
and the possible role of Saudi officials in aiding the 9/11
hijackers.

"We cannot name this country," said comedian Bill Maher, "but it
is, we can assume, a veritable *Mecca* of terrorist activity."

"We have nothing to hide," said Saudi foreign minister Prince
Saud al-Faisal after meeting with President Bush.  "And we do
not seek nor do we need to be shielded.  We believe that
releasing the missing 28 pages will allow us to respond to any
allegations in a clear and credible manner; and remove any
doubts about the Kingdom's true role in the war against
terrorism and its commitment to fight it."  See:

http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2003/07/sa072903.html


EXECUTIVE ORDER ON INFORMATION SHARING

President Bush issued an executive order on July 29 to implement
a provision of the Homeland Security Act that is supposed to
promote increased sharing of homeland security information
throughout the government, including with state and local
officials.  See Executive Order 13311 here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/eo/eo-13311.htm

The order does not address the definition and handling of
"sensitive homeland security information," which is the subject
of a separate notification that is to be issued for public
comment.

The provisions of the Homeland Security Act concerning
information sharing may be found here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/2002/hr5710-111302.html#hsi


BILL SEEKS INFO ON GOVERNMENT USE OF DATABASES

Sen. Ron Wyden (D-OR) introduced a bill on July 29 to shed light
on the government's use of commercial databases containing
personal information for intelligence and law enforcement
purposes.

"The power of technology that allows the Federal Government to
pry into the personal lives of millions of Americans is only
beginning to be understood," said Sen. Wyden.  "It is a breath-
taking power."

His bill would require a thorough report on government
acquisition and use of such databases, and would prohibit the
use of funds to procure commercial database information until
the report is provided to Congress.

See the introduction of the "Citizens' Protection in Federal
Databases Act" (S. 1484) here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2003_cr/s1484.html


CORRECTIONS AND CLARIFICATIONS

Secrecy News (7/24/03) mistakenly said that declassified
excerpts of the October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate were
not published by the major media outlets following a June 18
White House background briefing where the excerpts were
disclosed.  In fact, the Washington Post promptly published the
release on its web site.

Secrecy News (7/28/03) stated that the Senate voted along party
lines to defeat an amendment that would have subjected advisory
committees of the Department of Homeland Security to open
meeting laws.  But there were two exceptions: Republicans
Olympia Snowe (WA) and Lincoln Chafee (RI) voted with the
Democrats in favor of open meetings.


_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood@fas.org
voice:  (202) 454-4691






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 30

                     Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was - Lavoie

From: Andrew Lavoie <lavoiea@rogers.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:53:14 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:37:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was - Lavoie


>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:19:53 +0200
>Subject: Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was

>To Neil and list

>I am not talking of balloons launched by any air weather
>station. The point here is that, according to all sources,
>especially the NYU reports (in the Roswell Report), the books of
>Charles Moore and Karl Pflock - sources that the skeptics cannot
>discard easily - the NYU team, with geophysicist Albert Crary,
>launched everyday in June small clusters of balloons of the 350
>gr model, with radar targets, and these were not Mogul balloon
>trains. They were other launchings.

To Gildas and List,

This is off the topic a little but I have done a considerable
amount of research regarding the ML307 target, and I would like
to share the results of this research with everyone. My research
thus far has brought to light some interesting facts which I
believe will cast some doubt on the historical development of
the ML307 as described in Professor Moore's book and the report
issued by the Air Force.

There were three versions of the ML307 prior to the ML307C/AP
version in 1951. These were the ML307/AP, ML307A/AP and the
ML307B/AP. This has been confirmed in the TM 11-487G and the TM
1-235 army manuals. The ML307A & ML307B targets were identical
except for certain construction refinements which none of the
manuals go into any detail about.

Professor Moore said in his book that the Signal Corps adopted
the design of the ML307/AP target and was designated as such on
drawing SC-D-14407 and that is correct. This drawing is supposed
to keep track of all changes made to the target since June 9,
1944 but, keep in mind that this drawing was provided in the Air
Force report. Professor Moore goes on to say that on November
21, 1944 the ML307/AP was renamed the ML307B/AP and Drawing SC-
D-14407 was changed to include Istvan's bracket and reinforcing
the lamenated panel attachments and the drawing confirms this.
Professor Moore also said that there was a final wartime
modification of the target recorded on the drawing and the
drawing confirms this as well.

It is clear that some of the historical development of the ML307
listed by Professor Moore orginated directly from the drawing
and not from official manuals. Now here is the problem. The Air
Force used the SC-D-14407 as the reference drawing in their
report and there is no mention at all on the drawing that the
ML307A/AP existed and yet their official manuals clearly
indicate that the ML307A/AP existed. There is no mention at all
of the construction refinements between the ML307A & ML307B on
the drawing and yet their official manuals said that there were.

If the drawing was official it definitly should have recorded
the fact that the ML307A existed, but it doesn't. I did a
further follow-up of the target and found that the location
where the Air Force said that they obtained a copy of the
drawing is in question. The museum in Fort Monmouth never had a
copy of the drawing and currently do not have a copy according
to the museum curator.

I would like to close this by citing a statement General Ramey
made as reported by Reuters on July 10th, 1947:

"Before Brigadier General Ramey's broadcast, Major Edwin Kirtan
[sic], duty officer at Eighth Air Force headquarters at Fort
Worth, quoted him as saying "it looks like a hexagonal object
covered with tinfoil or other shining material suspended from a
balloon of about twenty feet in diameter. It is possibly a
weather balloon flown at the highest altitude but none of the
army men at this base recognize it as an army type balloon."


Best Regards,

Andrew Lavoie





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 30

                  Re: Private Aircraft Damage Event - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:08:27 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:41:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Private Aircraft Damage Event - Velez


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 10:51:13 -0400
>Subject: Private Aircraft Damage Event [was: Filer's Files #30 -- 2003]

>>From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos@yahoo.es>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 10:11:29 +0200 (CEST)
>>Subject: Re: Filer's Files #30 -- 2003


>>I would not put too much credence in this Latin-american
>>aeronautical event, and it has been demolished or debunked by
>>Mexican engineer and researcher Luis Ruiz Noguez.

>>If there is someone interested, I can privately provide Mr
>>Ruiz=ABs email address for consultation.

>Thanks for your always-of-interest comment. Of course, I'd like
>to know how to contact Noguez. I may have read Noguez's
>commentary several years ago (but I could be confused about
>whose commentary I read) and found them not completely
>convincing. However, if he has written his report on that case
>in English, I'd like to ask him for a copy.

>I don't see how Noguez could explain the radar tracking of
>objects near the aircraft unless the pilot (Carlos de Los Santos
>Montiel) dumped some tensiled Mylar balloons out the aircraft
>window and the wind was in the right direction as to drive them
>toward Popocatepetal (volcano) -- which would be difficult to
>believe because I do not think that the wind blows into the
>west-southwest very often in that area.

>Did Noguez explain the radar tracking or just attack Montiel's
>claim of having been intimidated by men in black suits? I have
>copies of official-looking documents about the alleged radar
>tracking. Perhaps Carlos could have had complaisant (in a hoax)
>friends in air traffic control, but find it difficult to believe
>that such would to be the case, without good substantiation or a
>confession.

>Of course I'll admit I have some doubt that a UFO would actually
>dent an aircraft, since if they are as sophisticated as they
>seem to be, I suspect they have some very excellent collision
>avoidance equipment.


Boys, boys!

First, Ray... I have no idea which Mexican collision case you're
talking about. I have never heard of this collision case that
you have interjected into my discussion with Betsy. I know you
were trying to help, but please, no thanks. The airplane
collision case I was discussing In my original post clearly
stated that it was a _commercial_ jetliner that was involved.
(and not a single occupant private plane.)

I also clearly stated that the collision took place during a
landing at Mexico City Airport. The 'case' that you and Vicente
are discussing is completely unrelated to this collision case I
have cited.

The facts are as follows:

Mexico City International Airport, July 28, 1994 Time: 9:55pm

Airplane: DC-9 en route from Guadalajara Airport to Mexico City Airport

Flight# 129

Passengers: 109 + crew

Pilot reporting: Raymundo Cervantes Ruano

In a taped interview of the Pilot, Capt. Ruano, reports; that at
precisely 9:55 pm during a landing approach to Mexico City
Airport, his aircraft collided with a 'UFO'. (unknown)

Due to the sudden collision, he was forced to make an emergency
landing. Upon inspection of the aircraft the following damage
was documented: the shock absorber had been torn off of one of
the landing gear, (they didn't mention 'which' landing gear was
affected) and there was also a dent on the bottom of the
fuselage.

The 'UFO' that flight# 129 collided with was observed and
videotaped by Mexico City 'local' Victor Lopez Suarez. That, is
the case I cited to Betsy. I have no idea what you guys are
talking about.

If any of our Mexican members could chime in with updated
information it would be greatly appreciated. The case I was
discussing has not been determined a hoax. I hope List readers
don't begin to confuse the case I was referring to with this
apparently solved one that Ray brought up.

Just to put this thread back on the beam, the issue I had raised
involved 'UFOs' and commercial aircraft safety. It is an issue
that needs to be addressed _before_ something tragic happens.


Regards,

John 'don't put cases in my mouth' Velez






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 30

                    Brazilian Ufologists Salute Bob Pratt

From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:33:17 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:51:53 -0400
Subject: Brazilian Ufologists Salute Bob Pratt


http://bobpratt.org/salute.html







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 30

                  Re: Has NIDS Unraveled Mystery Of Animal

From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:59:44 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:43:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Has NIDS Unraveled Mystery Of Animal


>From: Katharina Wilson <K_Wilson@alienjigsaw.com>
>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:36:09 -0400
>Subject: Has NIDS Unraveled Mystery Of Animal Mutilations?


>To List members:

>I am not sure if this has made it to the UpDates List, but I
>believe it is pertinent to some of the discussions that are
>posted here.

>This complete report was sent to me by a friend and was a PDF
>(cattledeaths_tse_epidemic.pdf)

>I am only including part of the Abstract. I highly recommend
>that everyone start at:

>www.nidsci.org/articles/animal1.html

>and move on from there and read the complete 33-page report.

>If NIDS is correct, in what seems to me to be a purely
>scientific approach to the topic of animal mutilations, the
>implications are extremely serious.

That is one of the most thorough and thought provoking reports
I've read in a long time. And, as in most serious
investigations, it raises numerous new questions.

Bravo to Dr. Onet and to NIDS


Terry







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 30

                  Re: Private Aircraft Damage Event - Olmos

From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos@yahoo.es>
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 21:22:11 +0200 (CEST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:48:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Private Aircraft Damage Event - Olmos


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 10:51:13 -0400
>Subject: Private Aircraft Damage Event

>Thanks for your always-of-interest comment. Of course, I'd like
>to know how to contact Noguez. I may have read Noguez's
>commentary several years ago (but I could be confused about
>whose commentary I read) and found them not completely
>convincing. However, if he has written his report on that case
>in English, I'd like to ask him for a copy.

>I don't see how Noguez could explain the radar tracking of
>objects near the aircraft unless the pilot (Carlos de Los Santos
>Montiel) dumped some tensiled Mylar balloons out the aircraft
>window and the wind was in the right direction as to drive them
>toward Popocatepetal (volcano) -- which would be difficult to
>believe because I do not think that the wind blows into the
>west-southwest very often in that area.

>Did Noguez explain the radar tracking or just attack Montiel's
>claim of having been intimidated by men in black suits? I have
>copies of official-looking documents about the alleged radar
>tracking. Perhaps Carlos could have had complaisant (in a hoax)
>friends in air traffic control, but find it difficult to believe
>that such would to be the case, without good substantiation or a
>confession.

>Of course I'll admit I have some doubt that a UFO would actually
>dent an aircraft, since if they are as sophisticated as they
>seem to be, I suspect they have some very excellent collision
>avoidance equipment.

Dear Ray,

I simply tried to advise that there are indications by which
this case should not be taken as a best one. I just can give you
the researcher=B4s email, Luis Ruiz Noguez,
<lrnoguez@terra.com.mx>just in case he is willing and able to
reply to your questions. I do not know the case, neither I read
the debunking report, but I respect Luis, first, and then some
other Mexican ufologists told me the pilot became a MIB target
(according to him, of course), which sounds funny to me!

Luck.

V-J








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 30

              Re: o MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Case - Keith

From: Rebecca Keith <xiannekei@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:27:47 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:50:55 -0400
Subject: Re: o MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Case - Keith


>From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:45:34 -0500
>Subject: Re: No MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Case

>>From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 07:18:46 -0300
>>Subject: Re: No MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Case

<snip>

>A. J.

>I believe that Schuessler was trying to imply that no one other
>than Howe actually went in and did an independent investigation
>of the alleged _abduction_. That would include an independent
>interview of the witness, independent collection of evidence and
>all of the other aspects of a full investigation. True, many
>have investigated the alleged _abductee_ (and rightly so) but
>none have done an independent investigation of the event itself.

Independent?

Didn't the alleged abductee _pay_ her to come down and
investigate?


Rebecca








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 30

                 Re: Military Probe US Crop Circles? - Pope

From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 21:29:55 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 18:08:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Military Probe US Crop Circles? - Pope


>From: Dave Haith <visions@ntlworld.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 09:41:55 +0100
>Subject: Military Probe US Crop Circles?

>If this report just out on the web is true, it raises important
>questions about why the military is so interested in crop
>circles that it has a special unit to deal with them.

>http://www.cropcirclenews.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=128

Dave and List,

I read the material at the above link with interest, but am
sceptical that what was seen is indicative of any official USAF
interest in crop circles.

The presence of a military helicopter over a crop circle does
not prove that the military are conducting official research
into the phenomenon. The military conduct routine flying
training all the time, and if aircrew hear about a crop circle,
curiosity or a personal interest may cause them to route their
flight over the formation, to take a look for themselves. This
happens in the UK all the time. Pages 73 and 82 of Circular
Evidence (Bloomsbury Publishing Ltd, 1989) by Pat Delgado and
Colin Andrews, shows a British Army Gazelle helicopter hovering
over a formation that appeared in Westbury in 1987. The
photograph on pages 74 and 75 of this book were taken by aircrew
on this helicopter.

A related point is that crop circles can be used as navigational
markers (like any other prominent features visible from the
air), that can be used to help verify position during a flying
training sortie.

I'm not sure what to make of the supposed USAF officer. In the
course of my UFO work at the MOD, I never came across any USAF
unit doing work of this nature. A presumably covert group sends
someone in uniform to a formation, and this individual then
engages crop circle researchers in a conversation where official
interest in crop circles is acknowledged? I think not.

I suspect this is either a genuine USAF officer having a laugh
at someone's expense, or far more likely, a Walter Mitty type
character in a second-hand uniform, playing at being in The X-
Files, or deliberately spoofing crop circle researchers.

I await with interest news of the FOIA requests concerning this
supposed USAF unit, but can't help but think that a quick
telephone call to the USAF public affairs department might be
the quickest way to straighten this one out.

Best wishes,

Nick Pope







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 30

               Re: MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Case - Groff

From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:36:54 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 18:11:38 -0400
Subject: Re: MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Case - Groff


>From: Rebecca Keith <xiannekei@yahoo.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:27:47 -0700 (PDT)
>Subject: Re: No MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Case

>>From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:45:34 -0500
>>Subject: Re: No MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Case

>>>From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 07:18:46 -0300
>>>Subject: Re: No MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Case

><snip>

>>I believe that Schuessler was trying to imply that no one other
>>than Howe actually went in and did an independent investigation
>>of the alleged _abduction_. That would include an independent
>>interview of the witness, independent collection of evidence and
>>all of the other aspects of a full investigation. True, many
>>have investigated the alleged _abductee_ (and rightly so) but
>>none have done an independent investigation of the event itself.

>Independent?

>Didn't the alleged abductee _pay_ her to come down and
>investigate?

Your point is well taken.

All indications are that she was, which is all the more reason
that another investigation be done by someone not funded by
Oliveira. Either that or forget the case altogether. I agree
with Schuessler when he said that if cases are ignored, they
will take a life of their own and we all know what happens to
cases that are allowed to fester by themselves.

I am not so sure, though, that Oliveira will be as forthcoming
with his "evidence" to someone not on his payroll.


Terry








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 30

               Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 16:48:22 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 18:16:10 -0400
Subject: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows


Source: Rense.Com

http://www.rense.com/general39/why.htm

Mind Control Expert & Dr. Greer - Strange Bedfellows?
From Anonymous
7-29-3


Jeff,

Did you know that one of the major mind control scientists,
Elizabeth A. Rauscher-Bise, Ph.D, is listed as a technical
advisor to the company Steven Greer, 'Disclosure' author, owns?

Now, what does mind control have to do with 'free' energy? Or
should I say, how will mind control be integrated into 'free'
energy??

http://www.seaspower.com/officers.htm

SEAS Space Energy Access Sytems

SEAS Board of Technical Advisors

Chair , Theodore C. Loder III, Ph.D. Paul Czysz, B.S. Stephen
Wilcken, M.S. Brian O'Leary, Ph.D. David Hamilton, BSEE Thomas
F. Valone, M.A., P. E. Richard J. Foch, B.S. M.E., M.S.

Elizabeth A. Rauscher-Bise, Ph.D

"Give me the money and three months...and I'll be able to affect
the behavior of 80 per cent of the people in this town without
their knowing it. Make them happy - or at least they'll think
they're happy. Or aggressive."

 -  Dr. Elizabeth Rauscher-Bise, Nuclear Physics and
Engineering, University of California

http://sellergren.unmade.com/archives/cat_saxat.html



And the SEAS Company Officers are:

President and Chief Executive Officer (CEO): Steven M. Greer, M.D.

Chief Technology Officer (CTO): Theodore Loder III, Ph.D.

 -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -

Elizabeth A. Rauscher-Bise, Ph.D

(Nuclear Physics and Engineering, University of
California at Berkeley)

Dr. Rauscher was a nuclear scientist and researcher at Lawrence
Berkeley National Laboratory, and at Stanford Research
Institute, Professor of Physics at John F. Kennedy University of
California, research consultant to NASA and the U.S. Navy, and
is a member of IEEE, APS, AAAS, MAA, ANA, AAMI. She served on
the Congressional OTA Advisory Committee, and has been Delegate
and advisor to the United Nations on long-term energy sources
and environmental issues.

Dr. Rauscher has been recognized for her major contributions in
Marquis Who's Who of Men and Women in Science, Who's Who in
California and in Technology Today, Leading Consultants in
Technology, DOE top ten women in USA in science award, USPA
Leaders of America Life Time Membership Award, Lota Sigma Pi
fellow, Delta Delta Delta scholarships at UCB. She also received
the award for Outstanding Contribution to Astronomy and
Astrophysics, American Astronomical Society Meeting, Lawrence
Hall of Science, and the CSPS Hall of Fame Award by the
California Society for Physical Studies for Outstanding Research
in Bioelectromagnetism, the Foundations of Quantum Theory, and
Contributions to Humanity. She also received the Medal of Honor
for contributions to Unity of the Sciences, Seoul Korea, and
many other awards.

Dr. Rauscher has consulted and been an invited speaker at
numerous forums in the USA, England, Europe, Japan, Korea,
India, Africa, South America, Canada, Mexico, and Bermuda, and
is author of over 200 scientific papers and four books. She
holds 3 U.S. patents and 1 European patent.

http://www.seaspower.com/erauscher.htm

http://www.joevialls.co.uk/subliminalsuggestion/mindcontrol.html


http://www.dcn.davis.ca.us/~welsh/russian.htm

[UpDates note: mind control material snipped for posting to
UpDates refer to original link or these sub links for entire
material --RG]

Full report

http://www.dcn.davis.ca.us/~welsh/russian.htm

 -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  - -

Steven M. Greer, M.D.

Dr. Greer is a lifetime member of Alpha Omega Alpha, the
nation's most prestigious medical honor society. Dr. Greer is an
emergency physician and former chairman of the Department of
Emergency Medicine at Caldwell Memorial Hospital in North
Carolina.

On May 9, 2001, Dr. Greer presided over The Disclosure Project
Press Conference from the National Press Club in Washington, DC.
Over 20 military, government, intelligence, and corporate
witnesses presented compelling testimony regarding the existence
of advanced energy and propulsion technologies sequestered in
classified government black operations projects. Over 1 billion
people heard of the press conference through webcast and
subsequent media coverage on BBC, CNN, CNN worldwide, Voice of
America, Pravda, Chinese media, and media outlets throughout
Latin America. The webcast had 250,000 people waiting on line  -
 the largest webcast in the history of the National Press Club.

Dr. Greer has released his new book - Disclosure: Military and
Government Witnesses reveal the Greatest Secrets in Modern
History. This book contains explosive testimony from over five
dozen military, government, intelligence, and corporate
witnesses with insightful commentary by Dr. Greer.

http://www.disclosureproject.org/

Dr. Greer has met with and provided briefings for senior members
of government, military, and intelligence operations in the
United States and around the world, including senior CIA
officials, Joint Chiefs of Staff, White House staff, senior
members of Congress and congressional committees, senior United
Nations leadership, and diplomats and senior military officials
in the United Kingdom and Europe.

Dr. Greer has been seen and heard by millions worldwide on shows
such as The Larry King Show, CBS, the BBC, NTV in Japan, and has
made dozens of radio and television appearances. He has
addressed tens of thousands of people live at conferences and
lectures around the world, including the international
convention for MENSA, The Institute of Noetic Sciences Board of
Directors, and the Sierra Club.

Dr. Greer is married. He and his wife have four daughters and
reside in the Charlottesville, Virginia area.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 30

                  Re: Has NIDS Unraveled Mystery Of Animal

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@charter.net>
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:21:16 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 18:19:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Has NIDS Unraveled Mystery Of Animal


>From: Katharina Wilson <K_Wilson@alienjigsaw.com>
>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:36:09 -0400
>Subject: Has NIDS Unraveled Mystery Of Animal Mutilations?

>To List members:

>I am not sure if this has made it to the UpDates List, but I
>believe it is pertinent to some of the discussions that are
>posted here.

>This complete report was sent to me by a friend and was a PDF
>(cattledeaths_tse_epidemic.pdf)

>I am only including part of the Abstract. I highly recommend
>that everyone start at:

>www.nidsci.org/articles/animal1.html

>and move on from there and read the complete 33-page report.

>If NIDS is correct, in what seems to me to be a purely
>scientific approach to the topic of animal mutilations, the
>implications are extremely serious.

>"Who is doing the mutilations and why?" and "Why leave the
>body?" are some of the questions that I, and probably others,
>will have to rethink.

>It is possible that NIDS has unraveled the mystery of animal
>mutilations?

>Title:

>"Unexplained Cattle Deaths and the Emergence of a Transmissible
>Spongiform Encephalopathy (TSE) Epidemic in North America"

>Published by National Institute for Discovery Science
>4975 South Polaris Avenue, Las Vegas, NV 89118
>nids@anv.net

>Abbreviations:

>"TSE: transmissible spongiform encephalopathy, a general term
>for infection in humans and all animals.

>CWD: chronic wasting disease, refers to specific TSE in deer and
>elk.

>BSE: bovine spongiform encephalopathy, refers to specific TSE in
>cattle, also known as mad cow disease.

>Scrapie: specific TSE in sheep.

<snip>


Hello, all.

Scrapie and BSE have been around for centuries. Ditto CJD. My
father's Agscience book (copyrighted 1922) describe these
diseases clearly. In the US we don't feed infected animals to
other Animals as a rule, infact there is a rule against it. Now,
the recent BSE scare in Canada, may be related to bad feed, not
any thing to do with mutilations.

TSE is not new either, all are due to little bundle of bad DNA
called prion, that acts like a computer worm, working,eventually
to scew things  up in the Hosts brain, it is not highly
contagious unless you have a habit of eating brains and spinal
columns. Bone marrow too. This is what got the folks in New
Guniea messed up. Hannibal Lecter cuisine if you will,and
without the Chianti.

As with all epidemics, they have highs and lows.Here in western
Oregon the Blacktail Deer are currently undergoing a "hair
loss'" disease that is in some ways worse for that population
than TSE. TSE may be sexually transmitted in Deer and Elk. So
far there has not been a clear recorded case of (note I said
clear) of TSE in humans.

CJD also, is limited to a genetic predispositon for it. Note BSE
is tranmissable, but studies in England seem to indicate a
genetic factor here too. Note the decline of Prion-realated
disease in the UK and Europe. BSE is non-exsistant here. Hasn't
been for quite a while, like 50 years or so. Now something may
sneak by the Agriculture Dept. But, so far so good.

Just my Two cents as a former rancher/farmer's kid with and
interest in such things. Note: I'm not saying mutes don't occur.
I was witness to one in LaGrande, Or. back in the 70's this was
in the middle of an active Airport. Actually I just saw the
carcass.The Rancher to this day, will not talk about it.Mainly
due to the goofballs that are the Media. Lord help him if he
gets a cropcircle.


GT McCoy








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 31

             Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows

From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net>
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 18:38:26 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 13:11:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows


>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
>To: ufoupdates@sympatico.ca
>Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 16:48:22 -0400
>Subject: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows

<snip>

>Did you know that one of the major mind control scientists,
>Elizabeth A. Rauscher-Bise, Ph.D, is listed as a technical
>advisor to the company Steven Greer, 'Disclosure' author, owns?

>Now, what does mind control have to do with 'free' energy? Or
>should I say, how will mind control be integrated into 'free'
>energy??

Elizabeth A. Rauscher-Bise is one of the small group of
scientists who are willing to work on projects which the
research-grant-bound scientists are not. Being associated with
the (early) mind control field doesn't nullify her basic
qualifications to work in other areas.


Eleanor White








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 31

              Re: MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Case - Boeche

From: Ray Boeche <rayboeche@neb.rr.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 18:36:55 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 13:20:53 -0400
Subject: Re: MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Case - Boeche


>From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:36:54 -0500
>Subject: Re: MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Case

>>From: Rebecca Keith <xiannekei@yahoo.com>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:27:47 -0700 (PDT)
>>Subject: Re: No MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Casel

>>Independent?

>>Didn't the alleged abductee _pay_ her to come down and
>>investigate?

>Your point is well taken.

>All indications are that she was, which is all the more reason
>that another investigation be done by someone not funded by
>Oliveira. Either that or forget the case altogether. I agree
>with Schuessler when he said that if cases are ignored, they
>will take a life of their own and we all know what happens to
>cases that are allowed to fester by themselves.

>I am not so sure, though, that Oliveira will be as forthcoming
>with his "evidence" to someone not on his payroll.



Once again, I believe a clarification is in order.

Rebecca Keith seems to be laboring under the belief that Linda
was "paid" to do an investigation.

That implies financial gain; a salary; remuneration in excess of
expenses; more money after the trip was over than she had when
it started. In the manner in which it's being used here, it
seems plain that Rebecca (and Terry by explicit agreement with
her) are implying  bribery.

If, and I emphasize the word if, Linda's expenses were covered
by Oliviera (that is, airline tickets, plus room and board while
she was in Brazil), that in no way indicates any attempt to sway
the outcome of her investigation by bribery. It is evidence only
of the fact that he was willing to stand the cost of bringing in
someone to examine the physical evidence which he claims
supports his story.

_If_ her expenses were paid, it would indicate, at most, an
instance of poor judgment on her part. And this "poor judgment"
could be apparent only in hindsight. No on in their right mind
could have expected the vitriolic attacks and baseless
allegations which have been made against Linda for the sole
crime of examining evidence.

I have no idea whether Oliviera's story is true or not. I
believe I can speak for Linda and state that she doesn't know
whether his story is true or not.

All any of us can know for sure, is that Linda has been the only
person willing to examine the physical evidence. Any
proclamation of true or false beyond that is groundless
speculation.


Ray Boeche









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 31

                    Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was - Bourdais

From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 09:44:26 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 13:24:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was - Bourdais


>From: Andrew Lavoie <lavoiea@rogers.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:53:14 -0300
>Subject: Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was

>>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:19:53 +0200
>>Subject: Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was

>>To Neil and list

>>I am not talking of balloons launched by any air weather
>>station. The point here is that, according to all sources,
>>especially the NYU reports (in the Roswell Report), the books of
>>Charles Moore and Karl Pflock - sources that the skeptics cannot
>>discard easily - the NYU team, with geophysicist Albert Crary,
>>launched everyday in June small clusters of balloons of the 350
>>gr model, with radar targets, and these were not Mogul balloon
>>trains. They were other launchings.

>To Gildas and List,

>This is off the topic a little but I have done a considerable
>amount of research regarding the ML307 target, and I would like
>to share the results of this research with everyone. My research
>thus far has brought to light some interesting facts which I
>believe will cast some doubt on the historical development of
>the ML307 as described in Professor Moore's book and the report
>issued by the Air Force.

To Andrew and List

Thank you for these new details about about radar targets.
However, they don't seem to change the story told by professor
Moore and the Air Force:

The NYU team brought at Alamogordo a certain number of radar
targets which were a left over stock of preproduction of the ML-
 307B model, which had been made by a New York toy manufacterer
in 1944. He used reinforcement tape with abstract drawings of
flowers.

Your information does not seem to contradict that.

Moore, Pflock and the Air Force say that these targets were used
only for the Mogul trains 4 and 5.

Brazel found debris with flowered tape on June 14.

Mogul 5 landed near Roswell, and Mogul 4 may have landed at the
Foster ranch, according to Moore's complicated calculations
(many thanks to David Rudiak and Brad Sparks for showing how
"elaborated" they are !)

Now, the argument I made is twofold:

Mogul 4 was not launched, according to Crary's diary; instead,
Crary launched in the morning a cluster of balloons.

These clusters are described in all sources as made up of several
balloons and targets:

3 to 7 balloons, and 3 to 5 targets, according to Pflock (p
148).

In the Roswell Report, there is a drawing of such a cluster,
just after the statement of Charles Moore:

"Typical radar target flight used by the NYU balloon group in
1947" It has three 350 grams sounding balloons, and three ML-307
radar targets.

Most probably, this is the kind of cluster that Crary launched
in the morning of June 4, and it is logical to suppose that he
used the NYU equipment for that, including targets taken in
their stock of flowered tape targets.

In other words, what Brazel found was not Mogul 4, but probably
such a small ballon cluster, and the Mogul 4 theory is in big
trouble.

<snip>

>I would like to close this by citing a statement General Ramey
>made as reported by Reuters on July 10th, 1947:

>"Before Brigadier General Ramey's broadcast, Major Edwin Kirtan
>[sic], duty officer at Eighth Air Force headquarters at Fort
>Worth, quoted him as saying "it looks like a hexagonal object
>covered with tinfoil or other shining material suspended from a
>balloon of about twenty feet in diameter. It is possibly a
>weather balloon flown at the highest altitude but none of the
>army men at this base recognize it as an army type balloon."

This is a curious statement. It does not fit to Mogul, it does
not fit either to the clusters described above, and it does not
fit to a simple weather balloon with a target. It would fit
better to yet another type of launching which is also mentioned,
for instance by Charles Moore : Captain John Smith, of the Air
Weather Service, launched, for the monitoring of the V-2
rockets, 2,000 grams balloons carrying either radiosondes or ML-
307 radar targets (see Moore p 99).

There were many balloon launchings and, when the cover up was
put in place at Fort Worth, they may have opted, at the
beginning, for such a type of balloon. Who knows ? But it does
not matter, really.

Again and again, if Rowell officers had found such equipment,
they would have identified it at once, just like Irving Newton
in Fort Worth.


Gildas Bourdais







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 31

                     Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was - Morris

From: Neil Morris <neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 13:58:52 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 13:27:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was - Morris


>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:19:53 +0200
>Subject: Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was

>>From: Neil Morris <neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk>
>>To: ufoupdates@sympatico.ca
>>Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:48:57 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was

>>We could have a problem here, what were the most common uses of
>>meteorological balloons by your everyday air base weather
>>station?. I think you may find it _didn't_ readily involve many
>>radar reflectors.

>I am not talking of balloons launched by any air weather
>station. The point here is that, according to all sources,
>especially the NYU reports (in the Roswell Report), the books of
>Charles Moore and Karl Pflock - sources that the skeptics cannot
>discard easily - the NYU team, with geophysicist Albert Crary,
>launched everyday in June small clusters of balloons of the 350
>gr model, with radar targets, and these were not Mogul balloon
>trains. They were other launchings.

Gildas,

Ok, I have your drift here and don't have a problem with it. Yes
it's perfectly possible a launch as you outline above could have
come down for Mack to come across, but there would be even less
variety and quantity of material in such a launch than in a full
NYU flight, so even less to confuse Mack, just rubber, tinfoil
and wooden sticks nothing extraordinary at all.

>The main argument of the Mogul theorists is that NYU used, for
>the Mogul launchings, a special model of radar target, which
>came from an old stock of preproduction of 1944, which they had
>brought with them at Alamogordo.

>This model had been made by a New York manufacterer who had used
>flowered tape. It is the main "proof" that Brazel found the
>hypothetical Mogul 4 flight, because he described flowered tape.
>Moore insists that the NYU team was the only one to use this
>particular model.

As I mentioned in my earlier reply, if Moore insists the targets
used were specific ML307_B_'s then they were _NOT_ anything else
other than the standard issue targets. As Andrew pointed out in
his posting, the history of the ML307 can be traced back via
it's official engineering drawings and though this history has
it's own mysteries, as Andrew has discovered in his extensive
research, we do know when the ML307B designation was first used
and it was _not_ used by a "pre-production" model of the target.

I personally think the "flowered tape", "pre-production model"
story is nothing more than a red-herring thrown into the mix in
an attempt to explain away the witness sightings of "symbols"
being seen on the debris and of course there is no way the
"flower pattern" tape can explain symbols being seen on
_metalic_  beam sections!, but create enough FUD and some of it
will stick.

It might be worth looking also at a comparison of what Moore
himself says the "flower pattern" looked like and compare it
with what some of the witnesses claim the debris symbols looked
like. The difference in shape and style is quite pronounced.
See:

http://130.88.237.88:1947/ftw-pics/new-1/compx.gif

>But it can be easily argued that these targets had been used for
>the NYU smaller balloon clusters, comprising 3 to 7 balloons and
>3 to 5 radar targets ML-307B (see Pflock, 2001, page 148).

>It is obvious that Albert Crary launched such a balloon cluster
>in the morning of June 4, after the cancellation of Mogul 4. He
>says just that in his diary and nothing else.

>He probably used the NYU equipment, to which he had access.
>Actually, the balloons that Brazel found may have been launched
>any day during the first two weeks of June. The NYU team made
>such launchings everyday.

>That's the point I am trying to make, as clearly as possible. It
>means that the Mogul argumentation falls apart: there was no big
>secret to protect, and the debris was even more mundane, easy to
>identify as balloons and targets. Brazel found that on June 14,
>filled three bags with it and told his daughter that it was just
>garbage (see Bessies's affidavit).

Bessie's affidavit may not actually refer to the events of July
1947. I say this because her story goes on to mention the
military arriving at their ranch house and recovering the debris
they had gathered.

This does not jell with what Bill Brazel Jnr, her elder brother,
recalls of the events. According to Bill, recounted in his
interview with Bill Moore, yes the kids were out at the ranch
when Mack came across the debris _but_, on his way to report the
find to Wilcox Mack drove first to his town house in Carrizozo
to drop off the children (Bessie amongst them), before he went
on down to Roswell. A couple of days later went Bill went out to
the ranch after reading about his father in the local paper he
found it deserted, Mack was still "assisting" the AF in the
guest house at RAAF. So how could Bessie remember the AF coming
out to the ranch and recovering some sacks of debris?. I don't
think she for one moment is telling a lie, but we _do_ know Mack
recovered other balloons from the ranch so I suggest in this
instance she's mistaken in the date and is simply remembering
one of these other balloon recoveries.

>I think we are agreed that it had nothing to do with the
>discovery of the strange debris field in the bebinning of July.
>Most probably, Brazel was instructed, in the morning of July 8,
>to tell the balloon story and shut up on the real, strange
>discovery. If the Roswell officers had found balloon debris, all
>they had to do was to pick up a balsa stick and break it to see
>what they had.

And they had a perfect example to show to Mack if they wanted to
prompt him in any way about what the debris "should" look like,
and about what quantity of debris was involved. We can see from
the NYU logs one train of the 3 Flight 11 MOGUL launches from
July 7th came down not far from the main highway to the west of
Roswell and was recovered by the AAF on July 8th. Maybe we can
now see just how Mack was able to gave such a nicely detailed
balloon train debris description to the RDR later that evening.


Best Regards,

Neil








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 31

                          Filer's Files #31 -- 2003

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 19:21:49 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 15:44:34 -0400
Subject: Filer's Files #31 -- 2003



Filer's Files #31 -- 2003 Skywatch Investigations.
George A. Filer,  Director Mutual UFO Network Eastern
July 30, 2003,  Majorstar@aol.com  Webmaster: Chuck
Warren -- My website is at:  www.GeorgeFiler.com/
Sponsored by:  OPC-3

SIGHTINGS CONTINUE WITH CLOSE ENCOUNTERS

The purpose of these files is to report the UFO eyewitness and
photo/video evidence that occurs on a daily basis around the
world and in space. Did a giant meteor destroy 100 square
kilometers of Taiga? Water detected on Mars, New Jersey - flying
triangle, Virginia - daylight sighting of a flying white cigar,
Florida - flying rectangle, Tennessee - brilliant maneuvering
red light, Michigan - reminiscent of the mass Arizona UFO
sighting, Minnesota - close encounter with alien, Colorado -
sightings increase, California - daylight disc flying, Canada -
scoop marks on skin nightmare, Popocatepetl volcano coats Mexico
City in white ash, Argentina - more mutilated cattle, England -
news carries UFO report, Australian scientists claim aliens look
like terminator not grays and New Zealand high speed red UFO.
California has most UFO reports last year.

DID A GIANT METEOR DESTROY 100 SQUARE KILOMETERS OF TAIGA?

The collision of a giant meteor in Siberia's Irkutsk region in
September 2002 destroyed some 100 square kilometers of taiga
with an explosion whose power was equal to that of a medium-
sized atom bomb, according to the head of a scientific
expedition. The expedition--consisting of ten scientists and
physicians--had to wait until May to locate the epicenter of the
devastated area, which is in a semi-mountainous and forested
area near Bodaibo, to the northeast of Irkutsk and Lake Baikal,
according to Vadim Tchernobrov, the expedition's leader. "Trees
have fallen in a way that occurs specifically in cases involving
very powerful expansive waves over a surface of someone hundred
square kilometers," he explained. "To give you an idea, the
explosion of the meteorite, which disintegrated before it hit
the surface and whose fragments have only caused some 20
craters, has a power equal to that of a medium-sized nuclear
warhead." During the press conference, scientists displayed
images recorded during the expedition, which show trees cut in
half and in some cases burned. Thanks to: El Universal Online
and Scott Corrales, http://www.cronica.com.mx/nota.php?idc=76740

Note: Valery Uvarov, of Russia's National Security Academy
claims two potentially earth destroying meteors have been
destroyed in Siberia by unexplained forces similar to missiles.
It seems those who operate the UFOs may be protecting Earth from
catastrophe.  The similarity to the meteor Tunguska explosion of
1908, cannot be ignored. Somebody up there likes us!

WATER DETECTED ON MARS - LIFE PROBABLE?

LOS ALAMOS National Laboratory reports that new maps of likely
sites of water on Mars showcase their association with geologic
features such as Vallis Marineris, the largest canyon in the
solar system. The maps detail the distribution of water-
equivalent hydrogen from the NASA's Mars Odyssey spacecraft.
Despite denying the existence of water on Mars for decades until
the Los Alamos' neutron spectrometer found water ice on the moon
scientists are proclaiming there might be an abundance of water
after all. Los Alamos space scientist Bill Feldman and coworkers
have increased estimates of the total amount of water stored
near the Martian surface. For more than a year, Los Alamos'
neutron spectrometer has been carefully mapping the hydrogen
content of the planet's surface by measuring changes in neutrons
given off by soil, an indicator of hydrogen likely in the form
of water-ice. "The new pictures are just breathtaking, the
water-equivalent hydrogen follows the geographic features
beautifully," said Feldman. "There's a lane of hydrogen-rich
material following the western slopes of the biggest volcanoes
in the solar system, a maximum reading sits right on Elysium
mons, and another maximum is in the deepest canyon in the solar
system."

Mars boasts extensive deposits of soils that are rich in water-
ice, bearing an average of 50 percent water by mass. Feldman
said, a typical pound of soil scooped up in those polar regions
would yield an average of half a pound of water if it were
heated in an oven.  The telltale traces of hydrogen, and
therefore the presence of hydrated minerals, also are found in
lower concentrations closer to Mars' equator, ranging from two
to 10 percent water by mass. Surprisingly, two large areas, one
within Arabia Terra, the 1,900-mile-wide Martian desert, and
another on the opposite side of the planet, show indications of
relatively large concentrations of subsurface hydrogen. The vast
water icecaps at the poles may be the source of the water with
geothermal heat melting the bottom layer of the icecaps, which
then could feed a global water table. "Some theories predict
these deposits may extend a half mile or more beneath the
surface; if so, their total water content may be sufficient to
account for the missing water budget of Mars."  See hydrogen map
at: http://www.lanl.gov/worldview/news/releases/archive/03-
101.shtml

NEW JERSEY - FLYING TRIANGLE

SOMERSET - On July 17, 2003, at 8 PM, the witness was out
walking his dogs, and was checking the night sky and noticed a
slow moving object that didn't seem plane shaped. The witness
states, "As it came closer, I could see the lights of a triangle
with three white lights with a red one in the center. It seemed
quite high up and as it came overhead I heard a hum rather than
a plane sound. As it passed, a plane came into view flying kind
of perpendicular to it, but much lower. Unfortunately several
cars came past around that time so it became noisy and I
couldn't hear it any longer. It is possible it is one of ours. I
just noticed it because the shape was unusual and it seemed to
be doing more of what I would describe as a slow glide, and then
the hum, rather than a typical plane sound. Its size was like a
baseball. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC

VIRGINIA - DAYLIGHT SIGHTING OF A WHITE, CIGAR SHAPED OBJECT.

RICHMOND - There was a beautiful blue sky with a few thick
fluffy white clouds on July 9, 2003, when the witness noticed a
cigar shaped white object, with flattened/straight ends, slowly
flying westward at 2:15 PM. The object flew overhead and the
witness watched it for about two minutes before it disappeared
into a cloud. I did not see it come out of the cloud as
buildings blocked my viewing. The object was about half a plane
longer than a commercial aircraft. I could not see any wings or
tail on the object and didn't hear any sound. If I held a dime
at arm's length when I first saw the object, the object would be
about the same diameter. The object did not leave a contrail
behind it. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC

FLORIDA - FLYING RECTANGLE

LYNN HAVEN -- At 4 AM, Sunday morning the witness's husband and
kids came in from a fishing trip waking her up, so the mother
went out to smoke a cigarette and saw an orange, rectangular,
silent, fast moving light on July 14, 2003. The mother says, "I
became aware of a dull orange unusual object similar to street
lights flying extremely fast, over my house. The shape was a
rectangular crescent and the middle projected slightly ahead of
the sides. The object seemed very high up and was about as wide
as my index fingernail and half as thick. The light was steady,
no blinking. I ran thru my house out the back door telling my 15
year old son as I went that "there is something in the sky."
When I got back outside it had vanished. At the rate of speed it
was going when I last saw it, it should have been still visible.
Although I believe there are UFO's in our skies, I tend to be
highly skeptical. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC

TENNESSEE - BRILLIANT MANEUVERING RED LIGHT

SWEETWATER -- Seven acquaintances met to shoot fireworks on July
9, 2003, in a large open field as it began to get dark. There
were bright and beautiful explosions, similar to artillery
shells and we noticed a bright red-orange light moving at about
a jet's pace across the skyline about 9:30 PM. We went back to
shooting fireworks and ten minutes later, we noticed the craft
was moving back diagonally in the opposite direction, so we
decided to watch. The actual light seemed to cover the majority
of the craft, if not all of it. It suddenly reversed direction
without actually turning around or losing speed. It was flying
in one direction fairly quickly and suddenly it decided to go
the other way. There was no smoke or contrails behind the craft,
and it made no noise in the perfectly clear sky.

After the craft flew north and east several times, we lost
interest and went back to shooting fireworks. By 10:30 PM, we
all had made the realization that the UFO was not just moving
back and forth, but was actually circling our field about a mile
or less. At 10:50 PM, we were still shooting fireworks and
noticed the craft was staying in one position to our south, less
than a mile away. We stopped shooting fireworks yet again so we
could see what the light was doing and it started moving
straight toward us rather slowly. The light was growing larger,
and after reaching 0.5 miles from us, it stopped for a brief
moment and then began heading west again. The UFO seemed
interested in the fireworks and continued toward the treeline.
Then a second ship came up to "meet" with the first and the two
ships moved 10 to 15 yards from each other and remained there
for several minutes before they flew their separate ways. A
moment later one of the UFO's came back, flew back a couple
times, and flew behind the treeline at 11:10 PM. It flew away a
few moments after we ran out of fireworks. Its ability to
suddenly go in opposite directions without turning around or
changing speed, made me believe that the craft was nothing made
by man. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC

MICHIGAN - REMINISCENT OF THE MASS ARIZONA UFO SIGHTING.

CHARLOTTE -- The craft appeared in the distance on July 12,
2003, and initially looked like a jet aircraft with two lights
chasing a smaller object at 11:05 PM. The lights continuously
blinked, while the object being chased looked like a flashing
light. As the objects came closer, it became apparent that it
was not one object chasing the other, but one entire craft. We
had been driving west on Kalamo Highway and pulled over to the
side of the road and viewed the craft. It flew 500 yards above
us and its outline and some detail were clearly visible. It was
50 to 100 yards long but the width was not as clear, but was
about a quarter of the total length. We could not clearly tell
the height. The craft did not make any sound and executed a move
that made it a true UFO. As it passed us, it turned
counterclockwise, but continued to travel in a straight line.
The turn was flawless, and smooth and as it 0continued in its
path, turning toward us, but moving further away to the
northeast in a smooth transition. The craft reflected a metallic
color from the light of the moon. The rest of the craft was
hidden in the night sky except for a thin outline.

Four minutes later we viewed a jet, clearly visible against the
moon, heading southwest, the opposite of the craft. The jet
picked up speed, and two more followed northeast toward the UFO.
Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC

MINNESOTA - CLOSE ENCOUNTER WITH ALIEN

ELY - A pilot reports. "I was on a canoe trip Boundary Waters
area when I noticed a bluish object descending at about a 45
degree angle from about a mile away at 7 PM, back in June of
1984. The speed was similar to a formula one racing car at 200+
mph and the altitude, when I first noticed it, was maybe a mile
high. I used to skydive, road-race cars and motorcycles, and
pilot airplanes, so I am a good judge of speed and distance. The
object passed over the lake at a distance of 100 yards and an
altitude of 200 feet. It was slowing continually during the
descent but made no sound. It was shaped similarly to a diamond
in a woman's engagement ring. It was round when viewed from the
top; near flat on top and expanding to a wider profile then
tapering to a point in the side view. The color was varied from
the blue of a Royal Crown Cola can through to the color emitted
by a black light. The object disappeared behind the treeline a
100 yards down the shoreline. I stood there stunned for a couple
of minutes when I noticed the movement of something coming
through the woods. All I will say here about what happened over
the next hour is that I communicated through telepathy with a
blond-Nordic. I didn't initiate the conversation and just had to
think what I wanted to say. I did not go to the craft and didn't
see it, except when it passed in front of me while descending
and when it left. The UFO ascended in reverse of the way it
descended and there was no "physical examination." I was sober
and was not tired and not subject to hallucinations. I have a
measured IQ that qualified me for membership in "Intertel," when
I was in the military from 1968 to 1971 and worked as a fire
distribution systems crew chief for Nike- Hercules Missile
Defense Systems. Our crews had several UFO sightings on our
radar systems both in the US and in Korea. My father and I also
saw a cigar-shaped UFO over Kansas in the summer of 1964 as we
were flying one of the family planes. Anonymous E-mail report.

COLORADO - SIGHTINGS INCREASE

LITTLETON - The witness was looking out his office window on
July 11, 2003, and noticed a smallish round object moving on a
direct west to east trajectory flying over my building at 11:27
PM. In the first seconds, I thought perhaps it was a white
helium balloon drifting overhead, but it seemed too steady and
deliberate to be a balloon. I ran outside as it flew right over;
my best guess is that it was about a mile up heading directly
east. The ground level winds were variable, but mostly coming
from the north. Whatever this was seemed to move by its own
volition.

STEAMBOAT SPRINGS -- Vacationing and sitting in a hot tub on
July 13, the witness noticed 5 or 6 lights in the daylight sky
at 1 PM. The lights were visible for only a second or two, would
fade out, and reappear in roughly the same location in the sky,
but had moved in relation to one another. I watched this for
three minutes or so, ran to get my camera, and tried to get some
shots. After a few more minutes the lights disappeared. I'm a
huge skeptic but these lights truly have me confused.

DENVER -- Bright single light in sky, that was stationary for a
while, moves up and down, and turns into blue and red light. I
was driving along I-76 on July 13, 2003, heading east, when I
noticed an extremely bright light in the sky that was completely
stationary. It wasn't very high up in the sky, and it definitely
was not a star! As I got closer to it at 10 PM, I came to a stop
and it was still there just this bright object, which dimmed a
couple of times, then got brighter again. I then saw it move
upwards over some trees, then it moved back down below them,
then up over the trees again. I know that planes don't fly like
that. The bright single light turned into an object with
flashing blue and red lights. It then almost disappeared, flying
directly upwards. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC

CALIFORNIA - DAYLIGHT DISC

LANCASTER -- Bill Hamilton writes, "My wife, Pamela Hamilton,
reported a sighting of a disc on July 25, 2003, at 10:30 AM,
heading north. She reported that she had just exited Von's
Market on 40th St. west, when above her she spotted a hovering
charcoal gray disk. She looked for wings, but saw none. It was a
classic circular disk shape. No sound emanated from the object
that was visible for about 40 seconds, then it was gone. She
stopped to look around the clear blue sky and there was no disk
in sight. At no time did she see it move. Thanks to Bill
Hamilton Executive Director Skywatch International
http://www.skywatch-research.org

CANADA - SCOOPS ON SKIN NIGHTMARE

BRITISH COLUMBIA - The witness told investigator Brian Vike,
"When I was around 12 years old, I woke up one morning with a
'scoop mark' on my left leg and I have no idea how it got
there." It is a perfect circle which dips down a bit, and is
about the size of a large pea. I noticed a similar scoop mark on
the back of my 18 year old son. I noticed to my horror that he
had a perfect 4"x4"x4" triangular mark on his back, and inside
this triangle were all these perfectly round red marks about the
size of a pencil eraser. He said that he felt no pain, but that
it was kind of itchy-burning feeling. The same morning of this
event, the tree outside the bedroom window where my son had
slept, (the leaves were yellow like they had been slightly burnt
or something).

We went to the walk-in-clinic to have a doctor look at it, but
the doctor did not have any idea what this could be, or what may
have caused it and had never seen anything like it before. The
marks disappeared about four days later.

The same son at 9 years of age woke up with a dime size hole in
his spine that took three months of antibiotics to get rid of
the infection. This hole was so deep, that you could actually
see the bone. The doctor had no explanation for this injury and
my son only remembers being awakened by a loud, scary, "BEEP-
BEEP" sounds. The Mother reports, "A couple of weeks ago, my
daughter said, she was feeling pain in her nose and I watched in
disbelief as a 'white scoop mark' quickly appeared right before
my eyes." I could not believe what was happening. It disappeared
a couple of days later. Since then she has had six nose bleeds.
We no longer bother to have a doctor examine us when things
happen, since they never seem to have any answers for us anyway,
or maybe it is that they are afraid of what these injuries and
events might implicate, who knows? (HBCC UFO Note: I do have the
picture of the young lady, and the white mark which appeared on
her nose. You cannot miss it. These are just a few of the
medical anomalies that have happened to the children and I over
the last few years.

TERRACE - Brian writes, "On July 18, 2003, I was talking to my
neighbor at 11:15 PM and there was only a strip of sky exposed
due to tree crown cover, and I saw a high altitude object of
white-grayish color traveling northeast at ten kilometers. A
second object followed the first across the sky, then a third
one was spotted two minutes later.

VICTORIA, VANCOUVER ISLAND - The witness reports that two
friends and he saw an object July 1, 2001, hovering 100 feet
over downtown over the Calwood Hills, and a small stretch of
water called the Esquimalt Lagoon. The witnesses were out taking
a walk at the waters edge at sunset and fortunately one of the
men had a pair of binoculars with him. One witness looked up and
thought he was seeing a very large airplane but they got very
excited when they realized the fuselage of a large aircraft
without wings was just sitting stationary three miles away. It
was tube Iaped and the sun was setting behind the craft that was
glowing brightly. It was slightly tilted at a 20 degree angle
and moved slowly down behind the hills. The men stood watching
for twenty minutes to see if they could catch another glimpse of
it. At 9:45 PM, when it was completely dark the UFO flew back up
and sat just above the trees and they remembered they had the
binoculars with them, and started to pass them around so
everyone could get a good look at it. After watching it for
about another ten minutes, it slowly dropped back down again
over Prospect Lake. After thinking about it, he wondered if the
object was dropping down to pick up water from the half-mile
wide spring fed lake. The craft was larger than two 747s and
there were no wings visible on the structure.

LETHBRIDGE, ALBERTA - The witness had just returned from a
midnight jog on July 22, 2003, and was cooling off when he
noticed something moving in the western sky at 12:30 AM. He
stood up for a better look and saw two flying triangles with
orange tips on each corner. He states, "I couldn't really see
the object perfectly clear because of the city lights and they
disappeared behind a tree." I ran west to the street to follow
them as they flew without a sound in a northwest direction, but
couldn't see anything after that. As I stood there gazing up at
the sky, I noticed a bright star which probably was the Space
station moving in an eastern direction. I don't know what to
make of this event but I am thankful that I am one of the few to
witness something like this. Thanks to Brian Vike, Director HBCC
UFO Research Canadian Toll Hotline 1 866 262 1989,
hbccufo@telus.net. Editor: Canadian Communicator -  CANADA HBCC
http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/hbcc_ufo_research.htm

STEWARTTOWN, ONTARIO - The Crop Circle Research Net reports the
first known formation for 2003, was found on July 23.
Preliminary ground photos are of a large ringed circle with two
other circles attached in wheat. The center circle is 16.5
meters (54 feet) diameter, with a surrounding ring of 32 meters
(106 feet) diameter. The two attached circles are 16 meters (52
feet) and 13.5 meters (44 feet) diameter. Preliminary details by
Joanna Emery include swollen / stretched stalk nodes, a small
fly or fly-like insect seemingly "stuck" to a cloverleaf plant
by it's head and odd "splays" of "randomly downed appearing
crop" in all the circles as well as a small "grapeshot" splay
nearby, suggesting again there may be a connection in some cases
between circular or geometric formations and random ones. Lay in
all circles is counterclockwise. Initial CCCRN field report at:
http://www.cccrn.ca

'POPO' VOLCANO COATS MEXICO CITY IN WHITE ASH

MEXICO CITY - Popocatepetl Volcano, known as Popo, 40 miles
southeast of the capital, exhaled a plume of ash on Saturday
morning July 21, and layered Mexico City in white volcanic dust.
"It was like rain. Our eyes were burning," said Isabel
Hernandez, who was caught outside with her two children when the
ash fell on the city. It sent up a 1.8-mile high plume of ash
and incandescent fragments at 9:20 AM. Hours later, winds
carried the cloud of ash to Mexico City, turning the sky dark
and raining down fine dust. UFO's are often seen flying near the
volcano. Thanks to Reuters.

ARGENTINA - MORE MUTILATED CATTLE

LA PAMPA -- El Diario de la Pampa reports, "On July 16, three
calves and a cow were found mutilated in fields 30 kilometers
from Genera Acha. "Until one sees it, or it happens to [ones
animals], one doesn't believe it," said a cattleman. The
cattleman said that on July 16, "two calves and a 'masked' calf,
were found mutilated some 500 meters away from his house. The
males were missing an eye, an ear and their tongues, while the
female was had its nipples sheared off with surgical precision,"
he noted. When we found them, they were still issuing some sort
of smoke or vapor from their carcasses, as though recently
dead." "All of the animals had their heads pointed southward,"
he pointed out, noting that "he was certain that the animals had
been alive the previous evening. Another cattleman who told a
similar story explained that very same night, "A very docile cow
that was near the house vanished, and was later found two
sections away from where it normally grazed and would have never
jumped over the barbed wire fences." Thanks to Scott Corrales

ENGLAND - FIVE LOCALS SPOT STRANGE CRAFT

CROXLEY - The Watford Observer reports, "Residents of Croxley
saw a UFO which circled above them for ten minutes before
vanishing without a trace. Mervin Harris, from Forbuoys
Newsagents on Baldwins Lane, witnessed the UFO on July 24, 2003,
at 4 PM. Five locals are reported to have seen the strange
craft. Harris said: "It went across in front of me."
http://www.watfordobserver.co.uk/news/localnews/display.var.3972
62.0.ufo_sightings_reported.php

AUSTRALIAN SCIENTISTS CLAIM ALIENS LOOK LIKE TERMINATOR NOT
GRAYS

The Australian Science writer Leigh Dayton claims, "If
extraterrestrials exist they look more like the steely
Terminator, than cuddly ET, say scientists on a cosmic quest for
smart aliens." The rise of the machines? There's a lot of
Hollywood in there, a lot of crashing and smashing about, but
it's possible," astronomer and science historian Steve Dick,
said of the Terminator movies. According to his new view of ET,
intelligent aliens long ago dispensed with weak flesh-and-blood
bodies in favor of steel-hard sinews and silicon brains. Dr.
Dick, of the US Naval Observatory, based his argument on the
"intelligence principle" -- when a species can improve its
intelligence it will do so. "If you don't get smarter you get
left behind," Dr. Dick said yesterday at the International Union
of Astronomy conference, meeting in Sydney. He said the earliest
that "post-biologicals" could have evolved in the oldest and
most distant galaxies was 7.5 billion years ago. That's a mere 6
billion years after the big bang that created the universe 13.7
billion years ago. According to Dr. Dick, such superior beings
would have begun existence as dimwitted primordial life, evolved
into intelligent but biological lifeforms, and then made the
evolutionary leap to brainy machine life.

Seth Shostak, an astronomer with the SETI Institute in
California, yesterday agreed with Dr. Dick, who will publish his
ideas in an upcoming edition of the International Journal of
Astrobiology. Dr. Shostak said. "It's fairly obvious that the
assumption the aliens would be soft and squishy little grey guys
... is clearly provincial. They might be grey, but they won't
have big almond eyes." Instead, Dr. Shostak speculates that
machine life would have a utilitarian appearance because "they
don't have to appeal to mates". As well, he predicted the
machines would be compact, because their intelligence would be
limited only by internal connections, running at the speed of
light. And if and when we find the new ET, will he, she or it be
dangerous? "Well, I have some goldfish, and I'm a lot smarter
than they are, but I don't wake up thinking I've got to kill
those guys," Dr Shostak said. "I don't think we need to worry
about the machines.
http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,6801101%255E1376
2,00.html

NEW ZEALAND - HIGH SPEED RED LIGHT

KILBERNIE, WELLINGTON -- My partner and I came out to the
kitchen to make coffee and I thought I turned on the computer,
when suddenly it lit up red about 8 PM and I was looking at the
screen watching the light glowing brighter in sort of a pulse
like movement. My partner says, "What the is that? I looked up
at him to see his face, which looked shocked, I turned around to
see this red object suddenly shoot off at this amazing speed,
please try and imagine this happening in only say 40 seconds.
What got me concerned was the way our dog was acting, her
growling was quite disturbing, I've never heard her like that
before. My partner described what he saw which was a red light
12 inches long and 6 inches wide, right outside our doors moving
in a strange sequence.  Now we don't have driveways or even a
house behind us so we decided to go outside to have a look then
we could hear the dogs next door growling and barking which I
then knew something was up, we opened the back gate to let Penny
our dog out to see what she would do, but she wouldn't go past
our washing line, if you knew penny you would know that was
enough to go inside. It didn't feel right, it was as if what
ever had happened left a very disturbing atmosphere, the dogs
made me think that what had just happened was I believe not from
our planet. My partner says the way it moved and how it stayed
up at the window was like nothing he has ever seen before.  In
closing, a word of thanks for your tireless efforts in keeping
us all informed of the latest UFO sightings. Thanks to Pete Rose

CALIFORNIA HAS MORE SIGHTINGS THAN ANY OTHER STATE IN THE US?

The National UFO Reporting Center Index by State / Province
shows California had the most reports last year followed by
Washington and Texas. ALBERTA, CANADA 75, ALASKA 93, ALABAMA
150, ARKANSAS 205, ARIZONA 781, BRITISH COLUMBIA, CANADA 269,
CALIFORNIA 2599, COLORADO 432, CONNECTICUT 187, DISTRICT OF
COLUMBIA 32, DELAWARE 34, FLORIDA 824, GEORGIA 276, HAWAII 76,
IOWA 159, IDAHO 146, ILLINOIS 624, INDIANA 284, KANSAS 166,
KENTUCKY 182, LOUISIANA 125, MASSACHUSETTS 286, MANITOBA, CANADA
37, MARYLAND 211, MAINE 156, MICHIGAN 527, MINNESOTA 233
MISSOURI 424, MISSISSIPPI 110, MONTANA 129, NEW BRUNSWICK, CAN
18, NORTH CAROLINA 336, NORTH DAKOTA 37, NEBRASKA 85,
NEWFOUNDLAND, CAN 5, NEW HAMPSHIRE 117, NEW JERSEY 325, NEW
MEXICO 211, NOVA SCOTIA, CAN 34, NORTHWEST TERRITORY 7, NEVADA
315, NEW YORK 793, OHIO 606, OKLAHOMA 201, ONTARIO, CAN 391,
OREGON 635 PENNSYLVANIA 579, PRINCE EDWARD ISLAND 3, PROVINCE OF
QUEBEC, CAN 68, PUERTO RICO 35, QC 16, RHODE ISLAND 52,
SASKATCHEWAN, CAN 38 SOUTH CAROLINA 142, SOUTH DAKOTA 40, SK 5,
TENNESSEE 301, TEXAS 917, UTAH 203, VIRGINIA 304, VIRGIN ISLANDS
2, VERMONT 49, WASHINGTON 1535, WISCONSIN 388, WEST VIRGINIA
125, WYOMING 68, YUKON 7, YT 1, UNSPECIFIED/INTERNATIONAL 1984,
Thanks to Bill Hamilton Executive Director Skywatch
International, Inc. Website: http://www.skywatch-research.org
and Peter Davenport NUFORC

BACK TO SCHOOL DISCOUNTS AT 100 TOP STORES ONLINE

GET OUR DISCOUNTS: Consider shopping at: Filer Unfranchise.com
for your back to school needs. Why not have your cosmetics,
clothes and shoes made to fit exactly to your specifications?
You can shop on line in a hundred different stores such as
Ashlane Gift Baskets, Books, Brooks Brothers, Diamonds, Disney,
Sweaters from Elizabeth's by Liz Claiborne, Fragrances, Hallmark
cards and flowers, Jewelry, Spiegel, Toy Chest, and Wine.Com.
There is a store for your every special need, and you qualify as
a preferred customer by reading these files, and you can qualify
for special discounts.  Filer Unfranchise.com

DO YOU NEED TO STOP AGING?  HGH Enhancer

WHAT YOU SHOULD KNOW WHEN YOU BUY OR SELL REAL ESTATE! Learn how
you can obtain the best real estate agent to help your buy or
sell a home. To get a free copy of this report e-mail me at
Majorstar@aol.com

DO YOU NEED TO RELIEVE THE PAIN AND BREATHE BETTER?  OPC-3

MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative
reports subscribe to the MUFON JOURNAL. A MUFON membership
includes the Journal and costs only $35.00 per year. To join
MUFON or to report a UFO go to http://www.mufon.com/. To ask
questions contact MUFONHQ@aol.com or HQ@mufon.com. Mention that
I recommended you for membership. "The MUFON Journal is now
accepting qualified advertising, please call 1 [303) 932-7709
for more information."

Filer's Files is copyrighted 2003 by George A. Filer, all rights
reserved. Readers may post the COMPLETE files on their Web Sites
if they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list
the date of issue. These reports and comments are not
necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON viewpoint. Send your letters to
Majorstar@aol.com. Sending mail automatically grants permission
for us to publish and use your name. Please state if you wish to
keep your name or e-mail confidential. CAUTION, MOST OF THESE
ARE INITIAL REPORTS AND REQUIRE FURTHER INVESTIGATION.

Donations cheerfully accepted. Majorstar@aol.com

Regards,

George A. Filer  www.GeorgeFiler.com/








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 31

                      Strange Days... Indeed This Week

From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 16:44:46 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 16:23:39 -0400
Subject: Strange Days... Indeed This Week


Greetings to the Listarians,

You are cordially invited to join EBK and the gang this Saturday
night (9 PM EDT) for 'Strange Days... Indeed' Heard over CFRB
1010, Toronto, CJAD 800 Montreal and the internet:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/sdi/program/sdi2003.html

Strange Days... Indeed is the only radio program dealing with
real Ufology and its issues.

We'll be humming with the saucers via old and obscure audio
clips from Ufology's past and a look back at the sounds from
alleged UFOs and aliens. Should be a fun time and you'll even
get to meet Mon-Ka.


Hear you there!

Wendy Connors
Faded Discs Project







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 31

                 Animal Predators Suspected In Colorado Cat

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 16:39:38 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 16:39:38 -0400
Subject: Animal Predators Suspected In Colorado Cat



Source: KCNC-TV4 - Denver, Colorado

http://news4colorado.com/topstories/local_story_211200815.html

07-30-03


Animal Predators Suspected In Colorado Cat Mutilations

AURORA, Colo. (AP) Animal predators may be responsible for
dozens of attacks on cats in the Denver area, police said
Wednesday, a day after authorities in Utah blamed foxes for a
string of cat mutilations there.

"So far everything we know also points to predation," Aurora
police spokesman Rudy Herrera said.

Experts and consultants were still reviewing about 45 cases
reported in Aurora and other Denver area cities. Herrera said
more details would be announced Friday.

Police previously said they believed humans were involved in
some of the cases but that they wanted to consult with wildlife
experts before making a final determination.

"If what we know now continues to be true, absolutely, we're
elated there was no human involvement," Herrera said. "It's not
good for the animals who lost their lives, and their owners, but
the fact that it's a predation type issue kind of puts the mind
at ease."

Police have consulted with veterinarians, wildlife experts and a
coroner on the attacks. Animal control officers said some
attacks were done with surgical precision.

Bears, mountain lions, raccoons, foxes, coyotes and owls all
have been known to prey on household pets, said Todd Malmsbury,
a spokesman for the state Division of Wildlife.

"Many of these critters have sharp claws or talons and very
sharp incisors," he said.

The agency advises residents not to let pets roam.

"They can be hit by cars, killed by other dogs or killed by
predators that are simply doing their business," he said.

Malmsbury said his agency did not investigate the cases but one
of its experts has consulted with authorities.

In Salt Lake City, investigators said 11 cats found mutilated
since May 2002 were probably killed by hungry foxes that had
strayed down from the foothills.


[UFO UpDates thanks Robert Barrow for the lead]

Robert - a non-subscriber writes:


Errol,

Foxes or other predators use "surgical precision" in some
attacks on cats, we are told. Colorado medical schools must be
turning out some very well-educated varmints with years of
medical experience.


- Bob Barrow










   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 31

                 CCCRN News: Formation #2 - Kippen, Ontario

From: Paul Anderson <psa@cccrn.ca>
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 23:10:31 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 16:49:36 -0400
Subject: CCCRN News: Formation #2 - Kippen, Ontario



CCCRN NEWS
E-News from the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network

July 31, 2003

http://www.cccrn.ca

_____________________________


Formation #2 - Kippen, Ontario

The second Canadian crop formation for 2003 was found yesterday,
July 30 near Kippen, Ontario. Discovered by a farm worker while
combining the field around noon.

Preliminary report is of a triplet formation of three circles in
wheat, the largest circle with a partial ring around it and the
two smaller circles next to it.

A field study to be conducted by CCCRN Ontario, further details
and photos pending, including aerials taken by a local
newspaper.

These two Canadian formations in Ontario (Stewarttown and
Kippen) follow closely in the same general time period of
formations south of the border in Wisconsin and Michigan, the
Wisconsin case being of particular interest, as now being
extensively discussed, as a neighbouring landowner reported
witnessing that three circle formation form in about twelve
seconds during a storm front which passed through the area.

http://www.cccrn.ca

____________________________


The Prairie Circular

Want more? Subscribe to The Prairie Circular, the quarterly
print newsletter of CCCRN and keep informed with the latest
news, updates, articles, reviews and complete crop circle
coverage from the Canadian prairies and across the country...
only from CCCRN! Only $12.00 Canadian per year. Further info:

http://www.cccrn.ca/theprairiecircular.html

Current issue: Spring 2003

____________________________


CCCRN News is the e-news service of the Canadian Crop Circle
Research Network, providing e-mail updates with the latest news
and reports on the crop circle phenomenon in Canada, as well as
other information on CCCRN-related projects and events, sent
free to your e-mail

To subscribe, send an e-mail with either Subscribe CCCRN News or
Unsubscribe CCCRN News in the subject line to:
cccrnnews@cccrn.ca

The Canadian Crop Circle Research Network is a non-profit
research organization which has been seriously investigating and
documenting the crop circle phenomenon and other possibly
related phenomena in Canada since 1995, creating a liason
between researchers, farmers, the public, media and scientists

Copyright Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, 2003








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 31

               VA Sheriff's UFO 'Dog-Killing' Becomes Campaign

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 01:09:34 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 16:47:05 -0400
Subject: VA Sheriff's UFO 'Dog-Killing' Becomes Campaign


Source: Richmond.Com -  Richmond, Virginia

http://www.richmond.com/News/output.cfm?ID=2576492&vertical=Newsb

07-30-03

Current, Former Sheriffs Square Off In Henrico

Tom Lappas
Henrico Citizen Editor
Wednesday July 30, 2003

Henrico County's current sheriff will face off against its
former sheriff when county voters go to the polls on Nov. 4.

Republican Sheriff Mike Wade, who was first elected to the
position in 1999 after a 22-year career with the Henrico County
Police Department, will face independent challenger A.D. "Toby"
Mathews, who served as sheriff from 1992 to 2000.

Wade handily defeated Democrat Robert Underhill in 1999 to
become sheriff. Mathews ran for Varina District supervisor that
year instead of seeking a third term as sheriff, but he finished
a distant third in a three-way race against incumbent Jim Donati
and independent Phillis Blackwell. He said recently that he made
a mistake by not running for sheriff.

"I wish I'd never retired," Mathews told the Citizen. "I miss
being the sheriff. My staff misses me. A lot of them come back
and say they'd like me to be sheriff again."

Mathews, a Democrat during his two terms as sheriff, wanted to
run as a Republican this time but was told by Henrico G.O.P.
officials that Wade would represent the party.

Mathews faced criticism during his final years as sheriff as a
result of high employee turnover rates, allegations of
mismanagement and criminal charges that were filed against some
of his deputies.

Wade said that it took time for the Sheriff's Office to deal
with those problems and the poor public perception of the office
that he encountered when he became sheriff in 2000. But, he
said, the office has moved forward and made drastic improvements
during the past four years. Mathews? decision to seek the
position again only opens up an old can of worms, Wade said.

"I'm not surprised, but I'm really disappointed," he said of his
opponent's decision. "We've overcome a lot of the things that we
had been in the past [during Mathews' tenure]."

When Wade took office, there were 79 vacancies in the Sheriff's
Office, including 29 supervisory positions, he said. He filled
each of the supervisory position with existing Sheriff?s
officials, proving, he said, that whatever problems existed
during Mathews' second term were not employee-based.

Mathews criticized Wade's communication skills, saying that some
deputies have told him Wade doesn't talk with them enough. He
also pointed to an incident last year in which a detainee walked
out of Henrico Jail West several hours after he was processed
there on charges of assault. (The man was caught and returned to
the jail several hours later).

"That never happened when I was sheriff," Mathews said.

Mathews faced significant scrutiny shortly before the 1999
election, when he recounted for a newspaper reporter his
recollections of what he believes was a UFO visit to his Varina
farm several decades ago.

In an article, Mathews said he believed the UFO was responsible
for the subsequent death of his dog.

Wade said that those comments further damaged the reputation of
the Sheriff's Office.

"To me, it's embarrassing to go out in public and have someone
say, 'Hey Sheriff, have you ever seen a UFO' That's happened to
me a number of times."

Since becoming sheriff, Wade said he has worked to improve the
office's relationship with other county and local agencies and
to improve its reputation in the eyes of the public. Each effort
has been successful, Wade said.

He also cited his efforts to streamline the office and reduce
expenses while providing more rehabilitation programs for
prisoners and improving morale among deputies.

He is most proud of the comprehensive drug abuse rehabilitation
program that he implemented several years ago at Jail East,
which now has the capability to serve as many as 190 inmates at
a time.

Wade also reduced the number of overtime hours Sheriff's
officials worked in 2002 by 43,000 hours, as compared with 2001,
he said

He also implemented random drug testing for all Sheriff's Office
employees, developed an award program for deputies and
redesigned an existing lineup room so that it could handle
juvenile bookings, thereby negating the need for the county to
spend $120,000 to build a new room at its Juvenile Detention
Center.

The Sheriff's Office soon will receive a new computerized jail
management system, which will contain such capabilities as an
eye-scan and fingerprint check to ensure that the identities of
all inmates may be easily checked.

Mathews told the Citizen that he enjoyed strong relationships
with many of his former staff members and other state and
federal officials while sheriff.

He said that Maj. Gen. Claude Williams, Virginia's adjutant
general and military leader, told him, "You're the greatest
leader I've ever known." He also said that Virginia State Police
Superintendent Gerald Massengill referred to him as "one of the
greatest leaders I?ve ever known."

Of U.S. President George W. Bush, Mathews said, "I think the
world of him, and he thinks the world of me too."

Mathews termed Strom Thurmond -- a former U.S. Senator from
South Carolina who died last month at 100 -- a friend who
"worshipped me and said I was the greatest leader."

Mathews served on a number of state and national committees
while he was Henrico's sheriff, and he said he would rejoin many
of those committees and that he hoped to serve as president of
one in the near future if elected this year.

He also has vowed to reopen the jail farm in New Kent County
that he first opened in 1997 while sheriff. Wade closed the farm
shortly after taking office in order to save money and reassign
employees to other locations.

"Everybody I talk to comes to me and hugs me and says, 'Please
be sheriff again,'" Mathews said.



UFO RESEARCH = http://home.fuse.net/ufo








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 31

             Re: MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Case - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 14:19:18 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 17:40:46 -0400
Subject: Re: MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Case - Stanford


>From: Ray Boeche <rayboeche@neb.rr.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 18:36:55 -0500
>Subject: Re: MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Case

>>From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:36:54 -0500
>>Subject: Re: MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Case

>>>From: Rebecca Keith <xiannekei@yahoo.com>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:27:47 -0700 (PDT)
>>>Subject: Re: No MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Casel

>>>Independent?

>>>Didn't the alleged abductee _pay_ her to come down and
>>>investigate?

>>Your point is well taken.

>>All indications are that she was, which is all the more reason
>>that another investigation be done by someone not funded by
>>Oliveira. Either that or forget the case altogether. I agree
>>with Schuessler when he said that if cases are ignored, they
>>will take a life of their own and we all know what happens to
>>cases that are allowed to fester by themselves.

>>I am not so sure, though, that Oliveira will be as forthcoming
>>with his "evidence" to someone not on his payroll.
>Once again, I believe a clarification is in order.

>Rebecca Keith seems to be laboring under the belief that Linda
>was "paid" to do an investigation.

>That implies financial gain; a salary; remuneration in excess of
>expenses; more money after the trip was over than she had when
>it started. In the manner in which it's being used here, it
>seems plain that Rebecca (and Terry by explicit agreement with
>her) are implying bribery.

>If, and I emphasize the word if, Linda's expenses were covered
>by Oliviera (that is, airline tickets, plus room and board while
>she was in Brazil), that in no way indicates any attempt to sway
>the outcome of her investigation by bribery. .


And I say, Ray Boeche, that you show ignorance of investigative
ethics and protocol in science!

No legitimate, refereed scientific journal would even consider
publishing a paper by an 'investigator' who, like Linda Moulton-
Howe, had her expenses paid by the person whose claims are being
investigated!

If you can't figure out the why of that, then you are blind to
the reality of both scientific caution and human nature in
general.

Then too, I read nothing to suggest that anyone was accusing
Linda of knowingly taking a bribe, per se. It is wrongful of
you to accuse them of saying that. But psychological bribery, a
non-direct but de facto bribery? That's the way sensible
persons might perceive it, whether you like it or not.

If Linda didn't recognize in advance that taking expenses from
the claimant to investigate claims being made is not kosher,
then she, IMO, is not worthy of being considered a credible
investigator, because good investigators are procedurally and
conceptually conservative.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of trifles." --
Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 31

             Re: MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Case - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 14:19:18 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 17:40:46 -0400
Subject: Re: MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Case - Stanford


>From: Ray Boeche <rayboeche@neb.rr.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 18:36:55 -0500
>Subject: Re: MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Case

>>From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:36:54 -0500
>>Subject: Re: MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Case

>>>From: Rebecca Keith <xiannekei@yahoo.com>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:27:47 -0700 (PDT)
>>>Subject: Re: No MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Casel

>>>Independent?

>>>Didn't the alleged abductee _pay_ her to come down and
>>>investigate?

>>Your point is well taken.

>>All indications are that she was, which is all the more reason
>>that another investigation be done by someone not funded by
>>Oliveira. Either that or forget the case altogether. I agree
>>with Schuessler when he said that if cases are ignored, they
>>will take a life of their own and we all know what happens to
>>cases that are allowed to fester by themselves.

>>I am not so sure, though, that Oliveira will be as forthcoming
>>with his "evidence" to someone not on his payroll.
>Once again, I believe a clarification is in order.

>Rebecca Keith seems to be laboring under the belief that Linda
>was "paid" to do an investigation.

>That implies financial gain; a salary; remuneration in excess of
>expenses; more money after the trip was over than she had when
>it started. In the manner in which it's being used here, it
>seems plain that Rebecca (and Terry by explicit agreement with
>her) are implying bribery.

>If, and I emphasize the word if, Linda's expenses were covered
>by Oliviera (that is, airline tickets, plus room and board while
>she was in Brazil), that in no way indicates any attempt to sway
>the outcome of her investigation by bribery. .


And I say, Ray Boeche, that you show ignorance of investigative
ethics and protocol in science!

No legitimate, refereed scientific journal would even consider
publishing a paper by an 'investigator' who, like Linda Moulton-
Howe, had her expenses paid by the person whose claims are being
investigated!

If you can't figure out the why of that, then you are blind to
the reality of both scientific caution and human nature in
general.

Then too, I read nothing to suggest that anyone was accusing
Linda of knowingly taking a bribe, per se. It is wrongful of
you to accuse them of saying that. But psychological bribery, a
non-direct but de facto bribery? That's the way sensible
persons might perceive it, whether you like it or not.

If Linda didn't recognize in advance that taking expenses from
the claimant to investigate claims being made is not kosher,
then she, IMO, is not worthy of being considered a credible
investigator, because good investigators are procedurally and
conceptually conservative.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of trifles." --
Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 31

                  Re: Has NIDS Unraveled Mystery Of Animal

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 11:25:20 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 17:56:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Has NIDS Unraveled Mystery Of Animal


>From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@charter.net>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:21:16 -0700
>Subject: Re: Has NIDS Unraveled Mystery Of Animal Mutilations?

<snip>

>Hello, all.

>Scrapie and BSE have been around for centuries. Ditto CJD. My
>father's Agscience book (copyrighted 1922) describe these
>diseases clearly.

GT, List, EBK,

Scrapie has been around for some time( 150+ years), but BSE is a
new disease, from the late 70's and was first found in the UK.

>In the US we don't feed infected animals to
>other Animals as a rule, infact there is a rule against it.

In the USA and Canada, until very recently, it was the custom to
render anything from road kill to downer cows, to the waste from
the slaughter house floors and chicken coops, and then send it
back through the food chain via cattle and other animals in the
form of high protein feed. These are exactly the same conditions
that existed in the UK before the BSE outbreak.

>Now,
>the recent BSE scare in Canada, may be related to bad feed, not
>any thing to do with mutilations.

I agree

>TSE is not new either, all are due to little bundle of bad DNA
>called prion, that acts like a computer worm, working,eventually
>to scew things up in the Hosts brain,

After billions of dollars spent on prion research, a one-to-one
relationship between prions and the TSE disease agent has still
to be established. Prions have been shown to be assoiciated with
TSE, but are most likely a secondary response by the host to
infection with spiroplasma.

>it is not highly
>contagious unless you have a habit of eating brains and spinal
>columns. Bone marrow too.

Check out the ingredients in hot dogs or lunch meat. TSE don't
seem to be contagious, but they are transmissible.

>This is what got the folks in New
>Guniea messed up. Hannibal Lecter cuisine if you will,and
>without the Chianti.

What messed up the natives of New Guinea (Fore specifically) was
an invasion by aliens. Alien contact eventually let to the
cannibalism, and Kuru.

>As with all epidemics, they have highs and lows.Here in western
>Oregon the Blacktail Deer are currently undergoing a "hair
>loss'" disease that is in some ways worse for that population
>than TSE. TSE may be sexually transmitted in Deer and Elk. So
>far there has not been a clear recorded case of (note I said
>clear) of TSE in humans.

I think you mean chronic wasting disease (CWD). We don't yet
know how this disease is transmitted. There are many human TSE
diseases including Alzheimer's.

>CJD also, is limited to a genetic predispositon for it.

Not true

>Note BSE
>is tranmissable, but studies in England seem to indicate a
>genetic factor here too.

Yes that is the case but these connections are not too clear.


>Note the decline of Prion-realated
>disease in the UK and Europe. BSE is non-exsistant here.

One case in Canada, but the USA is not doing the necessary
testing to find out if BSE has infected our cattle.

>Hasn't
>been for quite a while, like 50 years or so. Now something may
>sneak by the Agriculture Dept. But, so far so good.

When they test sufficiently, they'll find it. If it's in
Canadian cattle, then it's here.

Ed








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 31

                Re: No MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Case -

From: Charlette LeFevre <charlettelefevre@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 11:41:51 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 18:01:36 -0400
Subject: Re: No MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Case -


>From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Subject: No MUFON Endorsement For Oliveira Case
>Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 23:57:12 -0500

>MUFON UFO Journal July 2003
>Directors Message
>Reproduced with permission

>NO MUFON Endorsement

>By John F. Schuessler
>MUFON International Director

By all accounts  MUFON's Intl. Director Schuessler has endorsed
Linda and therefore the Brazilian case. MUFON scheduled a
lengthy presentation, at the last minute, of a severely dubious
and controversial case (not only of the claimed abductee but
also of the presenter) on MUFON's annual symposium stage and
printed Linda Moulton Howe's one-sided report in their symposium
program disregarding every concern and comment by MUFON's own
Brazilian Director.

If this wasn't taking sides and a direct endorsement of Linda
and this case - I don't know what is.

Questions on Linda's payment?

Linda Moulton Howe 'admitted' in her MUFON presentation that her
ticket to Brazil was paid by Urandir's business partner Filip
Branco and also 'admitted' Branco and the travel agent to
Project Portal were her only two translators.

The issue has never been to criticize Linda for investigating
the physical 'evidence' but rather she and now MUFON have not
reported the huge commercial enterprise of the claimed abductee.

Arguably, all of Linda's numerous first reports have not
disclosed the well documented 'Project Portal' - an enterprise
and cult with a record of fraud and expoiting the UFO belief and
soliciting to U.S. consumers.

Linda now presents it as a humble organic farm and 'bed and
breakfast' feeding its members beans and rice in a commune
kitchen.  Perhaps making light in the same way Jonestown's sign
stated it was an agricultural project and fed its followers
beans and rice.

All indications by local newspapers and serious investigators is
that Project Portal is a UFO commune and cult selling artifacts
and fraudulent time shares for salvation to poor or gullible
people. Sorry, but it is my belief that MUFON presented Linda to
be obviously contentious and to to sell tickets over presenting
more well researched valid cases. This demonstrates to me MUFON
values sales and dubious bedsheet impressions over hardscience
cases. An afront to people who takes Ufology seriously.

Keep in mind MUFON's Schussler and others were informed of
Olivera's arrest record and Brazilian's claims of fraud several
months before the symposium - confirmed by their replies. MUFON
can't claim ignorance on this one so it dissapoints me when
people speak for them or make excuses.

They have had months five months to do their own inquiries or
write or present something responsible and fair with their own
Brazilian Director- a Director who has already done years of
excellent investigation of Oliveira or even with the local
newspaper with over a hundred reports of consumer fraud.

If this is the best MUFON can do as an investigative agency, it
is a dis-service to the field and reveals its underhanded
dealings and favoritism.

I would offer 'allowing' the presentation of the Oliveira case
has been as grossly negligent to the UFO field as 'allowing' the
one-sided presentation of the Jonathan Reed case. Both cases had
gross indications of fraud from the very beginning from serious
UFOlogists and local investigators but Directors kept claiming
'we just want to present the evidence' and shut out researchers
in exchange for media attention and attacking and dumping on
people who dare ask valid challenging questions. Interestingly,
common tactics used by cults and followers to squash inquiry.

Perhaps because we are an independant group in Seattle and have
learned to stand up for our freedom of speech that we don't mind
asking challenging questions to get at the truth. There are good
people in MUFON but the organization needs to be responsible and
stop ignoring Brazil 'in hopes that they will go away' (lame)
even now and stop overlooking the possibility they may be aiding
and abeiting commercial fraud. Not that I expect people will go
purchase land at Brazil's 'Project Portal' or buy stones or
akashic record tiles but I have to question the investigative
businesses that sidestep ethics and sensationalize for profit.

I do hope though MUFON eventually recognizes the information
from Brazil which they should have done in the first place but
as I see it the recent 'non-endorsement' letter is just a
disclaimer to cover the MUFON organization and now using this
controversy (which they don't endorse!) to plug their journal.

Perhaps MUFON/Journal and Schussler can take journalism ethics
lessons from International UFO Lecturer and UFO Magazine Editor
A.J. Gevaerd.


Charlette LeFevre
Seattle UFO/Paranormal Group









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 31

                             UFOs Over Daventry

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 18:41:47 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 18:41:47 -0400
Subject: UFOs Over Daventry




Source: The Daventry Express - Daventry, Northamptonshire - UK

http://www.daventrytoday.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=696&ArticleID=568425

07-31-03

UFOs Are Seen Flying Over Town

A man spotted two jellyfish like objects which he could only
describe as UFOs flying over his Daventry home.

On the same day an hour before a cameraman recorded footage of
similar colour and shape vessels in the night sky in
Worcestershire.

Adrian Dalton, 32, of Hemans Road, Daventry was standing in his
back garden with his son on Tuesday, July 22 between 10pm and
10.30pm.

He first became aware of them when he saw two black objects in
the distance which he thought were birds. Next thing, they were
above his home.

He said: "They were like two brown jellyfish in the sky, they
looked like they were swimming and I had not taken any drugs."

The objects which were brown with a dark centre, and the size of
a ten pence piece at arm's length, made a swishing sound and
pulsated. They flew from the west over Mr Dalton's house at slow
speed and he could see the propulsion system at work.

He said: "I have been interested in these objects for 15 years
but for the past few days I have been trying to come to terms
with what I've seen. They were fascinating.

"It's an infinite universe, we're not the only life and it's
pretty egotistical to think we are."

Earlier this summer a woman from Crick had a paranormal
experience which she recounted to UFO magazine, Rapport.

She was walking in the village on June 16 when she saw an
aeroplane with a lozenge-shaped object above it which was going
at some speed alongside the plane.

Then when she looked again the object was underneath the plane
but quickly shot off very quickly in the opposite direction.

Is Daventry a target for extraterrestrial activity? Have you had
an encounter with UFOs? If so call the Gusher on 01327 703383.


[UFO UpDates thanks Chaz Stuart for the lead]








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 31

             Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows

From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 11:59:09 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 18:43:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows


>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 16:48:22 -0400
>Subject: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows

<snip>

Must work. How else to explain people flocking around Dr. Greer,
shelling out hundreds, for the privilege of standing out in the
sticks with a flashlight, hoping the space people will flick
their Bic's in acknowledgment.

Boggles the rational mind.

Wendy Connors








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 31

                     Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was - Lavoie

From: Andrew Lavoie <lavoiea@rogers.com>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 17:48:28 -0300
Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 18:46:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was - Lavoie


>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 09:44:26 +0200
>Subject: Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was

>>From: Andrew Lavoie <lavoiea@rogers.com>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:53:14 -0300
>>Subject: Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was

>>To Gildas and List,

>>This is off the topic a little but I have done a considerable
>>amount of research regarding the ML307 target, and I would like
>>to share the results of this research with everyone. My research
>>thus far has brought to light some interesting facts which I
>>believe will cast some doubt on the historical development of
>>the ML307 as described in Professor Moore's book and the report
>>issued by the Air Force.

>To Andrew and List

>Thank you for these new details about about radar targets.
>However, they don't seem to change the story told by professor
>Moore and the Air Force:


Gildas and List,

I agree that it doesn't change the story by the Professor but
what is does do is put into question what the Professor is
saying. How much of the information in his book is based on hard
details, and how much is based on toeing the Air Force party line,
is what one has to ask.

>The NYU team brought at Alamogordo a certain number of radar
>targets which were a left over stock of preproduction of the ML-
>307B model, which had been made by a New York toy manufacterer
>in 1944. He used reinforcement tape with abstract drawings of
>flowers.

>Your information does not seem to contradict that.


Could you please explain further why it doesn't.


Best Regards,

Andrew







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 31

                         Skeptic Doesn't Mean Cynic

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 18:54:36 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 18:54:36 -0400
Subject: Skeptic Doesn't Mean Cynic




Source: Metro Pulse - Knoxville, Tennessee

http://www.metropulse.com/dir_zine/dir_2003/1331/t_rationally.html

07-31-03


Think Definitively

Skeptic Doesn't Mean Cynic

By Massimo Pigliucci
   pigliucci@utk.edu


I am proud to consider myself a skeptic. I run a skeptic book
club in town, and subscribe to magazines such as Skeptic and
Skeptical Inquirer. I fantasize of being an intellectual
descendant, in my small ways, of Scottish philosopher David
Hume, who made reasonable skepticism his method of approaching
problems ranging from the political to the religious.

And yet, I constantly have to battle the prejudice (what else
could it be?) that links skepticism with cynicism in the popular
culture. Fellow skeptic Michael Shermer was once asked on a
radio talk show on which we participated why he seemed such a
jovial, easy-going fellow: after all, aren't skeptics supposed
to be constantly begrudging the very existence of the world?

Let's start with the basics. The Oxford Dictionary defines
cynicism as: 1) Tending not to believe in the integrity or
sincerity of others; 2) Skeptical; 3) Contemptuous; mocking; 4)
Concerned only with one's own interests. Also according to the
Oxford, the word probably derives from a Greek root naming a
gymnasium in which the philosopher Antisthenes used to teach.
Antisthenes was in fact the founder of the cynic school in
ancient Greece, which was characterized by contempt for both
pleasure and wealth.

Dictionary definitions, of course, are a mix of prescriptions
for the correct usage of a term (we'd better try to use words
consistently, or communication soon becomes impossible), and
descriptions of both current fashion and the past history of
words. It is therefore interesting to note that while the Oxford
lists skepticism as the second meaning of cynical, skepticism
itself in the same dictionary tells a different story: 1) A
person inclined to question or doubt accepted opinions; 2) A
person who doubts the truth of Christianity and other religions;
an atheist, from the Greek for inquiry, doubt.

Well, if being skeptical means to doubt accepted opinions, given
that the majority opinion is that there is some kind of God, I
suppose a skeptic also has to be an agnostic (notice that
doubting is not the same as categorically negating). More
generally, though, skepticism seems to me to have a much more
positive connotation than cynicism. While I would have admired
Antisthenes' contempt for wealth (I'm not so sure about
pleasure), I would not make it a centerpiece of my philosophy.
To doubt claims that are not backed by evidence, on the other
hand, seems only reasonable. And to attempt to inquire into the
soundness of such claims by seeking evidence in favor or against
them ought to rate among the highest virtues of rational
animals.

Instead, it is difficult to deny that skeptics are perceived at
best as party poopers and at worst as permanent curmudgeons to
be shunned at parties and ostracized in public discourse. Just
consider the endless stream of TV shows on such exciting
possibilities as extraterrestrial visits, chatting with the
dead, or the healing power of prayer. In recent years, at least
some of these programs have featured a skeptic (often the above
mentioned Michel Shermer, or Paul Kurtz of the Committee for the
Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal) to provide
that most glorified myth of media coverage: balance.

It turns out, however, perhaps not surprisingly, that the token
skeptic attempting to explain the difficulties of conducting
controlled experiments on prayer healing will be given a
fraction of time, and that the program will always end with a
leading question aimed at keeping the mystery alive and to
prompt the viewer to tune in for next week's installment.

Worse yet, skepticism is rarely practiced in the very earthly
arena of public discourse, especially by media journalists whose
job allegedly is to keep us informed and to keep everybody else
(CEOs, politicians, ideologues) on their toes. The legendary
Baltimore Sun skeptic-at-large of the first half of the 20th
century, H.L. Mencken, may have been a bit too close to
cynicism, but his reporting of the infamous monkey trial in
Dayton, Tenn., in 1925 is still refreshing to read if you are
not a zealous fundamentalist. Alas, investigative reporting a la
the Murphy Brown TV series is rare and much needed, not because
we live in especially troublesome times, but because we can
always use people who ask good questions. (Some) politicians
have always lied to the public to get their way, and so have
(some) members of the military, some religious authorities, and
occasionally even some scientists.

That is why Hume's reasonable skepticism is vital to our
society. It is not a question of not believing others as a
matter of principle. Rather, it is about constantly exercising
our critical thinking skills to make more informed decisions in
our lives and when we go into the voting booth. In an age of
weapons of mass destruction that vanish into thin air, victims
of crime being blamed for the assaults they suffered, and
outrageous claims concerning just about everything being thrown
around as gospel on talk shows, it would come natural to be
cynical. Instead, a little sane skepticism will do us much good.

Massimo Pigliucci's ramblings can be found at:

www.rationalists.org


[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 31

                     Crop Circles Found By Howden Farmer

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 18:58:56 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 18:58:56 -0400
Subject: Crop Circles Found By Howden Farmer




Source: Doncaster Free Press, Doncaster, UK

http://www.doncastertoday.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=766&ArticleID=568532


07-31-03

Crop Circles Found By Howden Farmer


Giant crop circles and mysterious symbols have appeared in a
Howden farmer's wheat field.

The intricately patterned phenomenon was spotted last Thursday
by a local long-distance truck-driver, although a tour bus
driver from Lincolnshire said he saw the crop circles a day
earlier as he drove along the Ouse Bridge.

"The field was normal one day, the next day the crop circles had
appeared," revealed the truck-driver who wished to remain
anonymous.

The crop circles have puzzled Howden farmer Mr Robert
Huddlestone, of Grove Farm, owner of the 50-acre field.

"They cover about 80 square yards and are very intricate and
precise," he said.

"I've never had a crop circle in this field previously, but
someone must have spent a lot of time and a lot of hard work
creating something as complex as this."

The shock appearance of the crop circles has apparently sparked
intense interest with several light aircraft were seen circling
low over the wheat field last weekend.

But Mr Huddlestone insisted neither he nor his staff had heard
or seen any strange activities in the area in recent times.

He was quick to point out how close his wheat field is to the
bank of the River Ouse and local roads, handy enough for any
determined earthbound pranksters with creative abilities and
time on their hands.


[UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Jul > Jul 31

                    Re: Skeptic Doesn't Mean Cynic - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 23:19:57 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 21:18:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Skeptic Doesn't Mean Cynic - Hall


>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>To: <- UFO UpDates List ->
>Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 18:54:45 -0400
>Subject: UFO UpDate: Skeptic Doesn't Mean Cynic

>Source: Metro Pulse - Knoxville, Tennessee

>http://www.metropulse.com/dir_zine/dir_2003/1331/t_rationally.html

>07-31-03

>Think Definitively

>Skeptic Doesn't Mean Cynic

>By Massimo Pigliucci
>    pigliucci@utk.edu

>I am proud to consider myself a skeptic. I run a skeptic book
>club in town, and subscribe to magazines such as Skeptic and
>Skeptical Inquirer. I fantasize of being an intellectual
>descendant, in my small ways, of Scottish philosopher David
>Hume, who made reasonable skepticism his method of approaching
>problems ranging from the political to the religious.


<snip>

Speaking as someone who has formally studied scientific method
and philosophy, the trouble with CSICOP-type "skeptics" is that
they give a bad name to a long and honorable tradition.

True skepticism about UFO claims is entirely justified; knee-
jerk rejection of UFOs as a potentially very important
scientific mystery is not. True skeptics, unfortunately, are a
rarity. What we get instead is highly opinionated, ill-informed,
data-deniers.


 - Richard Hall